# Finishing



## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

*Blotch Control*

Blotching is uneven coloring on the substrate, and wood is the substrate I am discussing here. There are many ways to change the look of wood - dyes, dye stain, pigment stain, and variations of both (paint, glazes, and pigment only stains primarily sit on top of the wood and obscure it some or completely, and are not relevant to this discussion). I will simply refer to using all of these as coloring the wood, since the best method to control all of them is the same. I will discuss readily known and available products. There may be some commercial/industrial products and methods that I am not familiar with, and would not be readily available to weekenders/hobbyists.

Here is a great example of blotching (on the right) vs "fully" conditioning the wood first (on the left). You may want something in between, and that will be discussed. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right?










*Why does blotching occur?*

Very simply, different species of wood, and different areas of a given board of the same wood, will absorb liquid different amounts. The more colored liquid absorbed, the more color retained in that area after the carrier has evaporated (the carrier is the liquid - water, alcohol, mineral spirits, etc. that carries the coloring agent, which is dye. The pigment stain particles are too large to travel into the wood and sit on top of it.)

There can also be uneven coloring from pigment stain, but I consider that a different from blotching. Uneven coloring from pigment is due to an uneven surface finish. The rougher areas grab more pigment particles, which causes more color to be seen by the eye. This is controlled by wood selection and surface preparation. in a porous, grainy wood like oak, the negative grain will capture a lot of pigment and typically be darker than the other areas. If you don't like the contrast of the grain, you have two options - use a different. less porous wood, or use dye instead of pigment for coloring. Uneven sanding, or sanding with different grits in different areas of the same board, creates somewhat the same issue as a grainy wood like oak - uneven capturing of the pigment, giving an uneven coloring to the surface.

*How do you control blotching?*

By controlling absorption, either stopping it completely or equalizing/balancing it across the wood substrate. Either method should use a clear sealer, otherwise the unequal absorption of the coloring of the sealer will simply show through as unequal coloring of the surface, which is what you are trying to stop in the first place.

Completely sealing the surface requires all color to be on top. Very little coloring will be accomplished with dye unless it is used as a toner in a carrier, such as any top coat finish. Shellac is good as a toner carrier since it bonds to other finishes well, and a very light shade of shellac can also be used as a sealer. Pigments in stains will adhere to the scratched up surface of the sealer coat. There are various oil and water based sealers readily available for 100% sealing. It will be very difficult to get an even toner coat except by spraying. Wiping or brushing will show plenty of markings and not result in a very nice looking finish. This method tends to obscure or even obliterate the natural grain and coloring of the wood. Most of us want to enhance the look of the wood, not "paint" it out of the picture.

So, to even out the absorption across the wood surface, something needs to partially block absorption, and ideally in relation to the absorbency of the changing wood surface. One way is to flood the surface with liquid, let's say water or mineral spirits, until absorption stops, then let some of the liquid evaporate, then apply the coloring. This method has serious drawbacks, yet there are products marketed that work this way. For a large piece, it's impossible to ensure the right timing of absorption or subsequent evaporation. The chosen liquid must be compatible with the colorant carrier, and that can then play havoc with diluting the color in some areas and not others, and it limits the colorant carriers.

A better method is to use a liquid that can be spread on the surface, and has a solids content, where after the liquid evaporates, the solids are left behind to provide the blocking of absorption in relation to the wood's original level of absorbency. I will call this liquid with solids content a *conditioner*. There are three broad categories of conditioners, determined by the solvent or carrier: oil based (Stoddard, naptha, mineral spirits, etc.), alcohol (shellac), water.

Use of a wood conditioner will reduce the amount of color that stays in/on the wood vs no conditioner. Because a conditioner reduces the variation in absorption, and color, across the surface, and all or some this variation may be pleasing to your eye (grain pop, character, whatever you want to call it), there is not a "always do it this one way" process to handle all situations. Mixing ratios and # of coats can dramatically effect the outcome. Test, test, test before committing the process to a project.

*Desired properties of a conditioner are:*

> Long open time to allow the wood to absorb the conditioner fully, then be wiped from the surface so that no film is left preventing later absorption of the color.
> Reasonable dry/cure time. 2-6 hours vs overnight or longer.
> Clear when dry so it won't adversely effect the coloring
> Compatible with oil, water, alcohol based chemicals when dry.

Shellac appears to be a popular choice. The issue is the short open time. It is impossible to get full absorption by the wood surface and then wipe off the excess before shellac sets up. The almost clear type works great as a 100% sealer, but not as a conditioner. Any solvent based lacquer is the same - great as a 100% sealer, no good as a conditioner (not as compatible with other products as shellac).

Oil Based - I am familiar with the Minwax, Gerneral Finishes, and Varathane products. None recommend using with water based stain or dye. I believe the Minwax and General Finishes products are 100% solvent - refer to the discussion above. The Varathane product is ~32% alkyd soya solids by volume, the same oil used in their stains. It provides a long open time and will work just fine. Typically a conditioners should have ~10% solids, so the Varathane may need to be thinned. Another option is Minwax Natural Stain, with no pigment. It is 38% solids, so it probably needs to be thinned about 2 parts thinner to 1 part stain. You can also make your own by diluting an oil based poly, alkyd, or phenolic varnish by 200% (1 part finish to 2 parts thinner). Experimentation is needed with DIY or Varathane on different woods to find the mixing/# of coats process. Varathane quotes a recoat time of 30 minutes, so I think an oil based colorant could be applied at that time. Alcohol based will need to wait for full drying, probably 6-8 hrs. Both the Varathane and DIY versions will put a lot of vapors into the air as all of the solvent evaporates. A shop should be ventilated with outside air during this time. Also, oil based conditioners have some color to them and will actually blotch a little - ok with intense color but not with less intense or lighter colors.

Water Based - as far as I know, these products and methods are compatible with oil, alcohol, or water based dye and stain. I have used all three types with thinned WB topcoats and pva glue sizing without issue. The downside is that all of these products and methods do raise the grain. My method is to lightly sand the raised grain with the next higher grit than what was used to initially prep the surface.

General Finishes, Minwax, Target Coatings, and Charles Neil have products on the market. I have not used any of them, but they are all essentially an acrylic solids content with a water carrier, similar to a thinned WB topcoat or stain base. The Target product (WR4000 stain base) is a BLO emulsion and has significantly different characteristics than the others, including not drying clear (looks like a coat of BLO). The actual solids chemical make up is irrelevant as long as it doesn't interact with topcoats or stains. They all still work by limiting absorption as previously described. I think most of these have hit the market in the last 4-5 years. I had found thinning WB topcoats did the trick, so I never had reason to try them. Thin the WB finish 50-75% (1 part finish to 1 to 1.5 parts) with water, flood the wood till absorption stops, wipe off the excess, let dry. Don't let it pool and dry on the surface. Testing is required to determine the best thinning ratio/# of coats for the wood and application. More than two coats will begin sealing the surface and limiting the ability to color. If the finish is $50/gal, a blotch control mix would run ~ $6/qt depending on the strength.

Neil's comments about the ingredients in his product fully support use of acrylic solids content in water, i.e. reducing a WB finish to use as a blotch controller:










Glycol ethers are commonly used in WB finishes, in the base product to set the proper curing, and are sold as retarders for the WB finishes. No new science there.

My preferred conditioner is glue sizing, made with Elmer's Glue All mixed 1 part glue to 4-8 parts water, depending on the application. Mixed 1 to 4, a quart is ~$2, compared to as much as $25/qt for the commercial products. It's also cheaper than using WB finish, has a long open time, in my experience dries in the same amount of time, and dries clear (sometimes I see a bit of white haze. After sanding the raised grain and applying dye, it does not appear to me to effect the color). Application is as described in the previous paragraph. Again, test, test, test to determine the right mixing percentages etc. before using on your next project.

Neil comments about glue not being a surface treatment (flaking) and refers to crackle painting. Yes to both. Using glue sizing as described, it is not a surface treatment. Properly wiped down, the remaining glue is what has been absorbed into the wood. Neither glue sizing or any reduced finish can be allowed to pool and dry on the treated surface. Using glue sizing for blotch control is not new - it's been around for a century or 2.

With any of these methods, take it easy on the sanding. I recommend doing it by hand with the grain. It needs to be as even as possible on all surfaces. Over sanding will open up the wood in that area and create the blotching you want to control. Typically a surface is sanded up to at least 220 before coloring/finishing. Sanding, different grits, # of passes, etc. is included in the testing I know you will do.

I'll "finish" with this - the commercial products work. The intent is to expand the knowledge base of those interested, remove some of the mystery and confusion about wood finishing, and save someone a few $'s. Buying a relatively expensive product solely for blotch control is not necessary, but if you're uncomfortable with diy, been convinced by the snake oil salesmen that their elixir is somehow different and better, don't want to mess up the project you put 100's of hours in, or whatever the case may be, by all means use a commercial product. All of the same testing, running through the complete finish schedule with exactly the products and spraying, brushing, etc. still needs to be done.

A couple of cherry bowls that were conditioned before applying a poly/dye finish.








.
Maple & walnut segmented bowl conditioned then a poly/dye finish.


----------



## AandCstyle (Mar 21, 2012)

OSU55 said:


> *Blotch Control*
> 
> Blotching is uneven coloring on the substrate, and wood is the substrate I am discussing here. There are many ways to change the look of wood - dyes, dye stain, pigment stain, and variations of both (paint, glazes, and pigment only stains primarily sit on top of the wood and obscure it some or completely, and are not relevant to this discussion). I will simply refer to using all of these as coloring the wood, since the best method to control all of them is the same. I will discuss readily known and available products. There may be some commercial/industrial products and methods that I am not familiar with, and would not be readily available to weekenders/hobbyists.
> 
> ...


OSU, thanks for a nice article. This should be required reading for most any woodworker.


----------



## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)

OSU55 said:


> *Blotch Control*
> 
> Blotching is uneven coloring on the substrate, and wood is the substrate I am discussing here. There are many ways to change the look of wood - dyes, dye stain, pigment stain, and variations of both (paint, glazes, and pigment only stains primarily sit on top of the wood and obscure it some or completely, and are not relevant to this discussion). I will simply refer to using all of these as coloring the wood, since the best method to control all of them is the same. I will discuss readily known and available products. There may be some commercial/industrial products and methods that I am not familiar with, and would not be readily available to weekenders/hobbyists.
> 
> ...


Very informative. Thanks for sharing


----------



## ed13 (Nov 22, 2016)

OSU55 said:


> *Blotch Control*
> 
> Blotching is uneven coloring on the substrate, and wood is the substrate I am discussing here. There are many ways to change the look of wood - dyes, dye stain, pigment stain, and variations of both (paint, glazes, and pigment only stains primarily sit on top of the wood and obscure it some or completely, and are not relevant to this discussion). I will simply refer to using all of these as coloring the wood, since the best method to control all of them is the same. I will discuss readily known and available products. There may be some commercial/industrial products and methods that I am not familiar with, and would not be readily available to weekenders/hobbyists.
> 
> ...


@OSU55 nice article. I've had good luck with the Charles Neil product. One of the things I like about it is that, when applying water based dye over it, if I find one area is getting too dark (from uneven dye application rather than blotching), it seems that vigorous working of the surface, close to scrubbing with the applicator, seems as if it softens the conditioner and allows me to spread the dark area and even things out. That's just a perception and may not be accurate. I'm writing to ask, do any of your treatments behave in this way? I'm wondering if this is the glue component of Charles' mixture. I often wonder if Charles' conditioner itself takes up some of the dye.

As a second comment, I think people fuss too much over grain raising. I've trained myself to ignore it. I put down water based dye, it dries, and I'm left with a fuzzy surface. The trick is to ignore it and get some finish down. After a decent first coat is on, a single wipe with 600 can be attempted, staying away from all corners and details. After the second coat is on, you can use the 600 a little more thoroughly. After a third coat, you should have a good base for sanding and, in any case, I generally find I cannot feel or see any fuzz at this point. These comments apply to water born finish, which tends to build quickly. Sometimes I wonder if my finishes aren't as clear as they might because of the fuzz in the lower layers, but I somehow doubt it. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts (or anyones).


----------



## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

OSU55 said:


> *Blotch Control*
> 
> Blotching is uneven coloring on the substrate, and wood is the substrate I am discussing here. There are many ways to change the look of wood - dyes, dye stain, pigment stain, and variations of both (paint, glazes, and pigment only stains primarily sit on top of the wood and obscure it some or completely, and are not relevant to this discussion). I will simply refer to using all of these as coloring the wood, since the best method to control all of them is the same. I will discuss readily known and available products. There may be some commercial/industrial products and methods that I am not familiar with, and would not be readily available to weekenders/hobbyists.
> 
> ...


Dark areas - cant say whether my recommended conditioners would behave the same or not. I apply dye differently, due to the issue you stated - uneven dye application. I dont like using alcohol or water only to carry the dye because it can be difficult to get it even. Instead I use a binder with some open time - I use Target em4000 stain base. I flood the surface (conditioned or not) and work the solution fairly quickly to get even coloring and finish by wiping ~ dry. Using just water doesnt work. A wb finish cut with water works, but does not have chatoyance, the em4000 is an oil emulsion that looks like blo but dries in a couple of hrs for topcoating. When using ob poly I mix dye in the poly and there is plenty of open time. Sure I get some uneveness in the color - I want some. I use toner coats of shellac to even the color to my liking. If I want perfect color I completely seal the wood and put all color on top.

I find the coditioner pre-raise the grain, then I go over the surface with the next higher grit usually 320 to knock it down, and dont have raised grain after the dye. It does sometimes happen, so I will touch that area lightly with 600 then dye again.

I usually dont sand wb finish till prior to the last coat. As for clarity, any sheen except gloss reduces clarity. As for only the last coat should be satin - true if you are building a thick film, but for the usual 3 coats I shoot, I dont see a difference between all satin vs only the last coat satin. Ive done side by side tests and for me it made no noticeable difference. Folks get wrapped around the axle over theory, convince themselves its true, and see a difference that doesnt really exist.


----------



## ed13 (Nov 22, 2016)

OSU55 said:


> *Blotch Control*
> 
> Blotching is uneven coloring on the substrate, and wood is the substrate I am discussing here. There are many ways to change the look of wood - dyes, dye stain, pigment stain, and variations of both (paint, glazes, and pigment only stains primarily sit on top of the wood and obscure it some or completely, and are not relevant to this discussion). I will simply refer to using all of these as coloring the wood, since the best method to control all of them is the same. I will discuss readily known and available products. There may be some commercial/industrial products and methods that I am not familiar with, and would not be readily available to weekenders/hobbyists.
> 
> ...


I'd like to explore your methods some more. My biggest challenge is that I am only happy with the topcoats that I have sprayed. In my shop, though, I can only spray nonflammable material and, even then, as non-toxic as possible, so I spray water born finishes, usually GF High Performance and, lately, Target EM6000. The problem is that, for many times in the year, my shop is 60F and my spray area is 50F, which isn't suitable for spraying water born finishes. So, I need to find some finishes that can be hand applied in cold / cool conditions. I used to use Arm-R-Seal, but have had trouble recently. I liked Waterlox (except for cost), but need a lower sheen. So, I'd like to review what you've described and see if there are some paths forward from there for top coats. It sounds like your stuff is based on Flexner.


----------



## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

OSU55 said:


> *Blotch Control*
> 
> Blotching is uneven coloring on the substrate, and wood is the substrate I am discussing here. There are many ways to change the look of wood - dyes, dye stain, pigment stain, and variations of both (paint, glazes, and pigment only stains primarily sit on top of the wood and obscure it some or completely, and are not relevant to this discussion). I will simply refer to using all of these as coloring the wood, since the best method to control all of them is the same. I will discuss readily known and available products. There may be some commercial/industrial products and methods that I am not familiar with, and would not be readily available to weekenders/hobbyists.
> 
> ...


Well I guess a significant part of my knowledge base of finishes comes from Flexner, but also other books and sources as well as my own process knowledge, experience, and testing. Once you build a knowledge and experience base you can move out of the cookbook approach and create processes for individual situations.

For a hand applied finish I will always start with ob poly (poly because non poly varnish is almost extinct) whether ars, minwax, or other brand. There are some minor differences but conceptually they all work the same and end up the same. Ive described what I do, so what other info are you after? You will need to do a lot of testing/practicing to get just what you want. What issues do you have with ars?


----------



## ed13 (Nov 22, 2016)

OSU55 said:


> *Blotch Control*
> 
> Blotching is uneven coloring on the substrate, and wood is the substrate I am discussing here. There are many ways to change the look of wood - dyes, dye stain, pigment stain, and variations of both (paint, glazes, and pigment only stains primarily sit on top of the wood and obscure it some or completely, and are not relevant to this discussion). I will simply refer to using all of these as coloring the wood, since the best method to control all of them is the same. I will discuss readily known and available products. There may be some commercial/industrial products and methods that I am not familiar with, and would not be readily available to weekenders/hobbyists.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you are adding color to your ob poly, EM4000, and wb finish. One question is, what are you using to do this? TransTint?


----------



## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

OSU55 said:


> *Blotch Control*
> 
> Blotching is uneven coloring on the substrate, and wood is the substrate I am discussing here. There are many ways to change the look of wood - dyes, dye stain, pigment stain, and variations of both (paint, glazes, and pigment only stains primarily sit on top of the wood and obscure it some or completely, and are not relevant to this discussion). I will simply refer to using all of these as coloring the wood, since the best method to control all of them is the same. I will discuss readily known and available products. There may be some commercial/industrial products and methods that I am not familiar with, and would not be readily available to weekenders/hobbyists.
> 
> ...


Perhaps you have not read my blog on oil and poly here, might help you understand the process better. Yes, I add color, sometimes a little sometimes a lot, to most of my projects. I find even light woods benefit from the visual grain enhancement created by faint color, usually a dark color with very low intensity. I use the dye that mixes with the finish's solvent - transtint for water, alcohol, lacquer, wd lockwood oil for oil based.

Whether a "1 step" process is used with dye in the finish or multi step with dye, toner coats, finish coats just depends on the object, intended use etc. most turnings or 1 step, most furniture is a multi step finish schedule. I most always tint a wb finish to warm them up, especially if the film thickness will be hi, they like to take on a bluish cast. Personally I dont like light woods with no color - look bleached out to me.


----------



## dbw (Dec 2, 2013)

OSU55 said:


> *Blotch Control*
> 
> Blotching is uneven coloring on the substrate, and wood is the substrate I am discussing here. There are many ways to change the look of wood - dyes, dye stain, pigment stain, and variations of both (paint, glazes, and pigment only stains primarily sit on top of the wood and obscure it some or completely, and are not relevant to this discussion). I will simply refer to using all of these as coloring the wood, since the best method to control all of them is the same. I will discuss readily known and available products. There may be some commercial/industrial products and methods that I am not familiar with, and would not be readily available to weekenders/hobbyists.
> 
> ...


This is very informative. I'm glad I found it.


----------



## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

*BLO, Danish Oil, Tung Oil, Poly*

Lots of questions come up concerning various "oil" and poly finishing mixtures and methods. Some of the "oil" products: Watco danish oil, deft danish oil, Minwax tung oil (actually urethane wiping varnish), Minwax Antique oil, actual tung oil. Below are links to two articles by Bob Flexner that provide a great deal of information on the subject. The first is from 2008, the second from 2011.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/finishing/the_basics_of_wiping_varnish2
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/finishing/oil-finishes-their-history-and-use

The short and sweet version is plain old varnish, poly/alkyd/phenolic (poly is about all that can be found these days) thinned ~1:1 with mineral spirits actually works as good or better than all these other magic potions because it dries hard, not soft. Wet sanding with the thinned poly and wiping off provides the same silky smooth finish as wet sanding with BLO or danish oil, but results in a much more heat, abrasion, water, and chemical resistant finish. As Bob says, there are different "levels" that can be achieved with a wiping varnish determined by the amount left on the surface: wipe off completely, leave a thicker film, or anywhere in between. Given 5-10 minutes or so to fully soak into the wood, kept wet, and then wiped off almost dry, wiping varnish will have the same look as BLO or danish oil, but because it dries hard, provides more protection to the wood. The only thing mixing BLO with varnish accomplishes is to making a softer, less durable, slower drying finish. The same is true for the danish oils and various tung oils. Having tested all of them, I can't come up with any reason to use them vs varnish, regardless of the desired final look. Many claim the oils are more easily repaired. I've never had an issue lightly wet sanding an existing thin film poly finish with thinned poly, wiping it off, and I'm done - the same process one would do with these oil finishes.

*But tung oil is more waterproof*. Tung oil is more water resistant than linseed oil because it has approximately three crosslinks between molecules instead of the slightly less than two for linseed oil. But because neither oil hardens well, and neither can be built up thick, both are less water resistant than a built-up alkyd or polyurethane varnish, lacquer, shellac or water-based finish. Film thickness drives the "waterproofness". Once resins are added, creating a varnish (like Waterlox), its the film thickness that can be built up due to the resins that provides the moisture barrier, not the oil type.

For raw wood, apply 2 coats. Keep the surface wet for 5-10min, or longer, then wipe off. Leave the sanding dust from the final finish sanding. It will be wiped into the negative grain to help fill some. This will completely seal the surface. This may be all that is desired. For blotch prone wood (pine, cherry, birch and others) you may want to condition the wood before topcoating, explained here, especially if you add color as covered below. After 2-3 coats I like to wet sand with the thinned poly to really smooth the surface. For thicker film finishes, add wipe on coats or brushed coats as desired. For brushing, the 1:1 can be used, or thicker viscosity. Finishing the finish will need to be done after the additional coats.

I've found quartering the blue shop towels and folding into a "brush" makes a good applicator, as do old t-shirts etc. If you find the surface too sticky to wipe off, simply add some wiping varnish mix to the surface. This will thin it and allow it to be wiped off.

Many people will mention using dewaxed shellac to seal the wood. As explained in the blotch control blog, shellac is not a good choice due to its short open time. I use shellac a lot but not to seal for blotch control.

For non-poly oil based varnish, there are only 2 products still available that I know of, Pratt & Lambert 38 and Sherwin-Williams Fast Dry Varnish. For thin wipe-on finishes I can't tell the difference between these and a poly. I notice some improved clarity for thick film finishes, but only gloss sheens. For semi-gloss and satin, I don't detect a difference, and the non poly varnishes are a bit softer. I think poly gets a lot of bad raps because people slap on several thick heavy coats and complain it looks cloudy and/or like plastic.

I prefer to use Minwax poly, and usually semigloss. Semigloss or satin keeps the negative grain and other areas of the project that are inaccessible from being glossy and plastic looking. Many state they prefer General Finishes Arm-R-Seal. It's a good finish, but it is a poly just like the MW product. The biggest difference is Arm R Seal is thinned to be a wiping varnish. It has ~ 1/2 the solids content of MW poly (not the wiping varnish). ARS sells for ~$22/qt. I can buy MW poly and mineral spirits and do the extremely difficult task of mixing 1:1 poly and mineral spirits and have the same thing for ~$10/qt. MW poly is also much more readily available for me. ARS will not need to be thinned.

*XYZ Finish looks Better*

One thing Bob doesn't discuss is color. Some of the different finishes have more color to them, and impart more color to the wood, which many people like (me included). In the picture below are the following 3 finishes in order left to right: Minwax Poly, BLO, Deft Danish Oil.










Below are each of these applied to soft maple. A heavy black line separates each one. Each was applied for ~ 5 minutes, continually keeping the surface wet, then wiped off "dry". The poly and BLO were thinned 1:1 with MS, the Deft was not.










There isn't much difference between the poly and BLO, but more difference may occur with more coats. The Danish Oil is noticeably darker, just as it is in the plastic cup above, though notice to a lesser degree when applied to the wood.

Below is a picture of the same piece of wood, but now showing a reddish-orange color at the far right. This was created using Minwax poly thinned 1:1 with MS, with W.D. Lockwood oil soluble dye added. This mix was applied the same as the others. As you can see, quite a bit of color can be added this way - this is just one application. You may not like the color, but this was some mixture I had left over from a project. Just about any color to varying intensities can be created this way.










Below is a picture of poly with yellow dye added on the left next to BLO on the right. Pretty close match.










All of your wipe on finishing requirements could be addressed using the same base finish, an oil based varnish, poly/alkyd/phenolic. Varying the amount of thinner will vary the application and end result, and coupled with how much is wiped off, the finished film thickness. Varnish can be purchased in different glosses, or gloss can be rubbed down in gloss with steel wool or synthetic steel wool. Oil soluble dyes, or the dye (liquid portion after settling) of oil based stains can be used to tint the varnish to the desired level. If a lot of color is desired, just add a little poly varnish to the dye to act as a binder - otherwise varnish topcoats will lift and mix the dye reducing intensity.

I like it because I can sand a surface to smooth it out or fill the grain and not have to be concerned with sanding through the film - the tinted varnish will just blend it right in, no different than all of the store bought finishes that have more color to them. Depending on the project, sometimes I will do a coat or two of highly thinned varnish with dye to get the color and surface I want by sanding or steel wool, then use just thinned varnish without added color to build a film. Dry or wet sanding works. There are many varied approaches in using wiping varnish and a little color. For the initial application. there's no need to remove the sanding dust. It will be wiped into the negative grain and any remaining dust will be wiped off with the final wipe of the 1st coat. This will enhance negative grain. If you want less negative grain visibility, then wipe off all the dust before application.

Pictured below is a 14" lazy susan table, made with maple, cherry, and walnut, finished in the described manner. A little bit of the dye portion from Minwax Dark Walnut stain was added to the thinned poly to enhance the grain. Because of the cherry and maple, the completedpoiece was conditioned to control blotching prior to applying the poly.
'
'








'
'
Here is a 6" maple and walnut bowl finished with a bit of dye to give it a pinkish hue.
.








.

There are two big advantages to this approach: 1) cost, 2) about any color can be achieved. A quart of Minwax poly is ~$11-$12, which can make 2+ quarts of wiping varnish when thinned. A gallon of MS is ~$14. The Lockwood dyes are ~$7.50-$12.50 per ounce package, that will make ~ 8 oz of intense dye (I use naptha and store in glass canning jars to prevent evaporation). That 8 ox of dye will last a long time. I get the little 2 oz plastic cups with lids at Walmart and mix up the wiping varnish in them for small projects. A set of stainless kitchen measuring spoons handle all of the measuring activities.

A lot of the bowls I have posted in my projects were finished this way. More examples below.
.
Birdseye maple dark dye, sanded back, poly finish








.








.
Maple & walnut segmented bowl








.
Cherry crotchwood bowl conditioned then poly/dye finish








.
Oak bowl


----------



## Grumpy (Nov 9, 2007)

OSU55 said:


> *BLO, Danish Oil, Tung Oil, Poly*
> 
> Lots of questions come up concerning various "oil" and poly finishing mixtures and methods. Some of the "oil" products: Watco danish oil, deft danish oil, Minwax tung oil (actually urethane wiping varnish), Minwax Antique oil, actual tung oil. Below are links to two articles by Bob Flexner that provide a great deal of information on the subject. The first is from 2008, the second from 2011.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing


----------



## AandCstyle (Mar 21, 2012)

OSU55 said:


> *BLO, Danish Oil, Tung Oil, Poly*
> 
> Lots of questions come up concerning various "oil" and poly finishing mixtures and methods. Some of the "oil" products: Watco danish oil, deft danish oil, Minwax tung oil (actually urethane wiping varnish), Minwax Antique oil, actual tung oil. Below are links to two articles by Bob Flexner that provide a great deal of information on the subject. The first is from 2008, the second from 2011.
> 
> ...


OSU, another very helpful article. Thank you!


----------



## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

OSU55 said:


> *BLO, Danish Oil, Tung Oil, Poly*
> 
> Lots of questions come up concerning various "oil" and poly finishing mixtures and methods. Some of the "oil" products: Watco danish oil, deft danish oil, Minwax tung oil (actually urethane wiping varnish), Minwax Antique oil, actual tung oil. Below are links to two articles by Bob Flexner that provide a great deal of information on the subject. The first is from 2008, the second from 2011.
> 
> ...


When looked at title of your blog thought were going to discuss oil varnish mixing. BLO or oil has no part in wiping varnish/poly.

Although chemically different Poly & Varnish essentially resins + other chemicals cannot spell, pronounce, or figure out what they do. Poly & varnishes are film building finishes.

Oil Varnish Blends (OVB), you do use oil, resin, & solvent. With OVB will not get a build-up of finish with more coats. You do retain matt/satin sheen or natural wood look. Homebrew mix simply equal amounts of BLO, resin, solvent (1/3,1/3,1/3 formula found in the web).

Wiping Varnish simply resin & solvent and with 50-50 mix 2 coats should equal one coat of film finish. If buying a wipe on product read label contents to ensure product does not contain more that 60% Solvent.

Both oil varnish blends & wiping varnish/poly have their place depending upon use & personal preferences. Making your own can save you some money because can mix only what you need when you need it.

Tung oil is made from seeds within the nut, so no worries about nut allergies. Pure Tung Oil is making a comeback because food safe & low or no VOC's. If use pure & no solvents food safe, at solvent you have no or low VOC's.

Most commercial wood finishing products Flexner mentions is article labeled Tung Oil use less expensive non-drying or semi drying oils if contain any oil at all.

None of the drying oils (Linseed, Tung, and Walnut) penetrate wood very deeply without solvent. Adding solvent speeds up drying time and increases oil penetration. While don't recommend using linseed oil do think both Tung & Walnut oils have a place for finishing some woodturnings. Could explain why's and why not but think have said enough.


----------



## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

OSU55 said:


> *BLO, Danish Oil, Tung Oil, Poly*
> 
> Lots of questions come up concerning various "oil" and poly finishing mixtures and methods. Some of the "oil" products: Watco danish oil, deft danish oil, Minwax tung oil (actually urethane wiping varnish), Minwax Antique oil, actual tung oil. Below are links to two articles by Bob Flexner that provide a great deal of information on the subject. The first is from 2008, the second from 2011.
> 
> ...


Not sure, but I think you missed the whole point of this blog entry - it's my opinion that all of the "drying oils" are a waste of time and $ - I agree with Flexner. The same look and superior protection can be achieved with a thinned varnish - it's all about how the product is applied. Appears you also missed Flexner's point - most of the wiping oils and finishes really are thinned varnish or a varnish/oil mix.

I've done the testing and comparisons of tung, walnut, and many of the "potions" available commercially and diy, "flat" wood and turnings, which is how I arrived at my opinion and recommendation. BTW, all of them are food safe when cured.


----------



## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

OSU55 said:


> *BLO, Danish Oil, Tung Oil, Poly*
> 
> Lots of questions come up concerning various "oil" and poly finishing mixtures and methods. Some of the "oil" products: Watco danish oil, deft danish oil, Minwax tung oil (actually urethane wiping varnish), Minwax Antique oil, actual tung oil. Below are links to two articles by Bob Flexner that provide a great deal of information on the subject. The first is from 2008, the second from 2011.
> 
> ...


Have a good feel for where Flexner is coming from explaining manufacturers catering to people looking for easy wood finishes and how can make your own and save money. Have been using his book "Understanding Wood Finishing, since 1994. He is not the only professional wood finisher saying the same things. If bought one of his books or others would find lots of information on adding color to wood.

My disagreement is way you presented your information! Have no problem with Flexner telling us Tung oil is made from nuts when it's the seed within the nuts used! He says same thing in his book but also tells you Tung oil is water proof or water resistant. The number of coats required to achieve any level of protection is kind of arbitrary.

Unlike you think do not think there is one finishing material for every application.

Definitely disagree with you & Flexner have to say about food safe finishes!

Food Safe Finishes, summary of non toxic finishing products ideas for cutting boards, salad bowls, and other food centric woodwork.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/article/food-safe-finishes.aspx


----------



## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

OSU55 said:


> *BLO, Danish Oil, Tung Oil, Poly*
> 
> Lots of questions come up concerning various "oil" and poly finishing mixtures and methods. Some of the "oil" products: Watco danish oil, deft danish oil, Minwax tung oil (actually urethane wiping varnish), Minwax Antique oil, actual tung oil. Below are links to two articles by Bob Flexner that provide a great deal of information on the subject. The first is from 2008, the second from 2011.
> 
> ...


I can agree to disagree. Curious what you disagree with as far as the presentation? This entry concerns only thin, wipe on/off finishing. For that app, if you think the other oils and potions have a use (maybe they do for outdoor, but thats a whole different discussion), ok, and I dont. My objective is to help simplify all of the mktg and mythology that exists and provide the less experienced a way to achieve equal and even better results with simple, cost effective methods. All of the different products arent needed, much less required. Also curious if you have tried the methods described, and what you found makes tung, walnut, or BLO necessary (other than smell or voc's) vs poly? Please provide details of the tests and results - you may have observed behavior/results I didnt get. Im always searching for new factual information.


----------



## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

OSU55 said:


> *BLO, Danish Oil, Tung Oil, Poly*
> 
> Lots of questions come up concerning various "oil" and poly finishing mixtures and methods. Some of the "oil" products: Watco danish oil, deft danish oil, Minwax tung oil (actually urethane wiping varnish), Minwax Antique oil, actual tung oil. Below are links to two articles by Bob Flexner that provide a great deal of information on the subject. The first is from 2008, the second from 2011.
> 
> ...


Great post. Using just straight thinned poly seems like heresy, but I agree, the results speak for themselves. It's funny that most of us have been conditioned to see poly only as a topcoat.


----------



## MrWolfe (Jan 23, 2018)

OSU55 said:


> *BLO, Danish Oil, Tung Oil, Poly*
> 
> Lots of questions come up concerning various "oil" and poly finishing mixtures and methods. Some of the "oil" products: Watco danish oil, deft danish oil, Minwax tung oil (actually urethane wiping varnish), Minwax Antique oil, actual tung oil. Below are links to two articles by Bob Flexner that provide a great deal of information on the subject. The first is from 2008, the second from 2011.
> 
> ...


Thanks OSU,
I'm a bit late to this blog but followed it here from another site. 
I am currently experimenting with thinned poly or Maloof blends for turned pieces but maybe I'll skip the tung oil next time. The results you achieved speak for themselves.


----------



## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

*Reference Books*

I consider the finish 50% of a project. I continually read/hear woodworkers who are disappointed in the finished look or who are afraid to try color (dye/stain) on a project. Finishing is a learned skill, just like operating various power tools, using hand tools, making/fitting various joint types, proper design, material selection. etc.

As such, time and effort need to be expended to gain the knowledge and physical skills to impart a beautiful finish to a project. What if you spent as much time developing finishing capability as you did the other skills used to build your projects?

It all starts with education to gain knowledge, then putting that newly gained knowledge into practice by applying it, i.e. trying lots of methods on lots of different woods. Do this on scrap. Frankly, don't even build a project until you have decided on the finish, because the finish process may need you to alter the design to make finishing easier and result in a better finished product. Finishing knowledge also helps to put all those "old wive's tales" about various finishes and methods where they belong, out of your mind.

The books listed below are the best books I am aware of to gain knowledge and actually understand wood finishing. Others may have specific recipes, historical information/reproduction methods etc., but don't provide the level of knowledge these books do. With knowledge and practice you develop the skills to develop your own recipes for an application. While these books are somewhat dated, they still provide the basic knowledge necessary and cover water based technology. For newer products, specific product information can be obtained from manufacturers which will then guide you to the type of finish and where it fits as well as specific product application information, which you always want to check. Having both is best (they don't necessarily agree 100%). For only one I would pick Flexner.

*Understanding Wood Finishing / Bob Flexner / Pub: Reader's Digest 2005
Great Wood Finishes / Auth: Jeff Jewitt / Pub: Taunton Press 2000*


----------



## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

OSU55 said:


> *Reference Books*
> 
> I consider the finish 50% of a project. I continually read/hear woodworkers who are disappointed in the finished look or who are afraid to try color (dye/stain) on a project. Finishing is a learned skill, just like operating various power tools, using hand tools, making/fitting various joint types, proper design, material selection. etc.
> 
> ...


I agree that it takes practice. The best thing to do is tryout various finishes and techniques on scrap wood to determine what works best.

It takes practice to improve ones technique and more practice.


----------



## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

OSU55 said:


> *Reference Books*
> 
> I consider the finish 50% of a project. I continually read/hear woodworkers who are disappointed in the finished look or who are afraid to try color (dye/stain) on a project. Finishing is a learned skill, just like operating various power tools, using hand tools, making/fitting various joint types, proper design, material selection. etc.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggested resources. Finishing is definitely a area. I enjoy the building much more than finishing. Realize the importance of both when it comes to the end product.


----------



## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

OSU55 said:


> *Reference Books*
> 
> I consider the finish 50% of a project. I continually read/hear woodworkers who are disappointed in the finished look or who are afraid to try color (dye/stain) on a project. Finishing is a learned skill, just like operating various power tools, using hand tools, making/fitting various joint types, proper design, material selection. etc.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggested resources. Finishing is definitely a weak area (have many weak areas yet as I learn more in this wonderful woodworking hobby!). I enjoy the building much more than finishing but realize the importance of both when it comes to the end product.


----------

