# Loose Pen Tubes



## SteveCherry (May 21, 2013)

I've made three of PSI's bullet pens and they turned out pretty good. When I went to glue the tubes in the blanks, the tubes fit perfectly - nice and snug. I since gotten a couple of other types of pens and the tubes fit pretty loose. In fact they'll slide right out; is this normal? I'm using the thick super glue and one tube actually came out when I was squaring the blank - not enough glue maybe? Since I'm new to pen turning I'm not sure what to expect. I was looking at some posts of LJ about glue and I might switch to the 5 minute epoxy. Any help tips and insights would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

If have a digital caliper would measure tubes & drill bit. If forcing too much glue out when installing tubes need a bigger hole. Not applying enough glue same as applying too much. Glue remaining on the tube will indicate your problem.

You do not want too snug a fit. Normally if rough sand tubes, apply glue installing should be smooth. Too loose and not enough glue or hole too big could be the problem.

If thick super glue not filling gaps or holding, how old is it!

I switched to epoxy and never looked back. Forget five minutes if read instructions will tell you epoxy does not reach full strength for 24 hours. Not sure if ever waited full 24 hours. Normally waited until next day.


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## SteveCherry (May 21, 2013)

Thanks for the info Bill; I don't have a digital caliper. Glue shouldn't be old - just purchased it recently. I think I'll be switching to epoxy - it sounds like epoxy is more reliable.


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## coachmancuso (Feb 10, 2013)

This might be a stupid question but do you have the proper drill bit for each type of pen. They all take a different size. If you order from craft supply they tell you what size drill bit you need for each style of pen. Are you using the same drill bit for each pen style? If so that I your problem.


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## WibblyPig (Jun 8, 2009)

Epoxy is the only way to go. A little Playdough in each end of the tube, smear it in the epoxy and twist it into the blank.


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## PaulDoug (Sep 26, 2013)

I agree on epoxy. It's the only thing I use now after trying several types of glue. I use the 15 minute epoxy because it gives me plenty of time to make adjustment, no rush. Many prefer 5 minute. I use dental wax to plug the tubes, never could get Playdough to stay in, but it works for many. Make sure to rough up the tubes with something like 80 grit sand paper. If the tubes are going in any type if blank other than wood, be sure to paint the tube and inside the hole you drilled.


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## rickf16 (Aug 5, 2008)

I make pens too and what I found is if I drill the holes in stages, I get a better fit. For a hole of 3/8th's or more, I will generally do this in 3 steps. I then rough the tube and paint it. Painting the tube helps when you have a blank that may be translucent. I also use the same bit for the final size every time.

Just my two


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## SteveCherry (May 21, 2013)

Coachmancuso - yes I am using the correct drill size, I'm sure of that much. PaulDoug, I don't understand what you mean by plugging the tubes with dental wax (or playdough); what is the purpose of that?


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## gtbuzz (Sep 19, 2011)

How loose are we talking about? You don't really want a super snug fit since there will be no room for the glue. In mine, there's a good number of them that will fall out without any glue / epoxy, but there's still a pretty minimal gap. When I do get the glue in there, it's definitely a tight fit. The holes I drill probably could be a little tighter, but I think I'd have to get a much nicer DP with less runout.

As others have said, go slow when you drill, make sure to evacuate the chips too. If you do it in a single pass and don't back off the bit, all that extra wood down there is gonna do bad things. Also, make sure you scuff up those tube pretty good. If you're not doing that, there's a good chance the glue bond will fail. I've made quite a few pens and I've only had once fail due to the tube coming out, however that was because I was trying to remove the mechanism with a punch transfer, not the tube failing in service.


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

Steve, 
Dental wax/playdough is to keep the tube from being infiltrated with glue. If you do not use use something to "block off the inside of the tube" you can certainly use a rat-tail file to take and excess out, except that will eventually take some brass off and could make the pen kit fit loose when you push it the parts. I have been using plumbers putty…it is really cheap and available at any home Improvement store.

Epoxy is IMHO the only way to go. Many people use their DP then go right over to insert the tube while the inside of the tube is still warm. Heat is a CA accelorant…..the tube will sometimes only go in half way and stick there. Epoxy is not easily "accelorateable"-it also has almost a lubricant quality to it. Tubes slide in easy. For PR blanks that are transparent, you can add a couple of drops of "testors" paint to color it to the blank…( I would recommend painting inside the blank too)...so it is very verstile.

If you have particular problem with a loose tube/blank, you can use gorilla glue too. It expands and will be very strong besides. It is sort of a crap shoot if the tube is centered if it is too loose….don't ask me how I know this….
Mike


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## PaulDoug (Sep 26, 2013)

If you have a chuck for your lathe, you can drill some nicer holes, in my opinion. I only drill pen blanks on the lathe. Mike answered the question on why you want to plug the tubes before gluing them in.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

Being in the dental profession for over 30 years I have a large amount of dental wax left over I use this with five minute epoxy it works superbly .The dental wax comes in sheets and is easily deposited by pressing down with the tube onto the sheets and it leaves a 2 mm plug which is easily removed afterwards.Have fun penmaking is good fun. Alistair


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## SteveCherry (May 21, 2013)

Thank you Moke, PaulDoug, and Scotsman, I think I have a better understanding of whats going on now with the fit of the pen tubes and also why you plug the ends of the tube - had not heard of that tip before. I thought cleaning out the inside of the tube was part of the purpose of the barrel trimmer. Plugging the tube sounds like a better idea though. Thanks for your help.


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## SteveCherry (May 21, 2013)

One final question; is there a particular brand of epoxy that is preferable for pens? I have a type of epoxy where each part is in a kind of syringe where you squeeze out the epoxy and mix it together. Or are you talking about fiberglass epoxy like the West System stuff? Thanks.


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## marcuscraft (Nov 14, 2012)

You're thinking the right stuff Steve, but it's easier if you track down the stuff in separate bottles so you can just use a little at a time (either that or glue a ton of blanks up at once and use the syringe). I picked up the two bottles of epoxy at lowes for $15 and have enough epoxy to last a lifetime.


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## SteveCherry (May 21, 2013)

Thanks, Marcus. Got to do something! just checked the pen I was working on last night and the tubes are loose. Its only my fourth pen, so I guess I should expect there to be a bit of a learning curve. I also lost the little bitty spring that goes in the click end of the pen, so the kit is junk too, grrrr.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

Steve hard to pin point your problem, not sure if problem is drilling pen blanks or glue up. You only need a couple thousands of an inch for tube and glue.

Recommend having a look at IAP site, if like it join for free. Think have to be a member in order check out their library. Including an article on basic pen turning, they also have a boat load of articles & videos too!

http://www.penturners.org/forum/

http://content.penturners.org/library/general_reference/buildingonthebasics.pdf


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

I've never had a loose tube in hundreds of pens turned. I use medium CA glue (superglue). Are you using any kind of spray to accelerate drying of the blanks? Perhaps you are turning and assembling before the blanks are dry.










http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2000346/8159/Satellite-City-Aerosol-Accelerator-6-oz.aspx


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

As PaulDoug said, it is IMHO easier to drill on the lathe, and more accurate. You can have loose tubes form that too though. Like if you do not have the blank centered in your chuck….I have several chucks but the easiest to drill on the lathe with is the PSI drilling chuck. It is not as good for the round PR bits. 
I have not drilled a blank on my DP for years…..it's awesome..
Mike


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## SteveCherry (May 21, 2013)

No accelerator WayneC, but I did just complete a click pen successfully though - no loose tubes. Might have to look into the product you linked to, thanks. Moke, I'll have to look into the drill press chuck too, thanks.


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## RjGall (Jun 16, 2008)

i've done quite a few pens in my time and never had an issue with my plank coming lose.
I pick a drill bit that is close to the tube dimension one thing I do is sand the brass tube with approx 100 grit so as to scuff it up so the glue will adhere to it before inserting in the blank I also apply 
super glue to the tube before inserting it. 
Not much to it!!!


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

I've been watching this thread in silence because I thought I was just being paranoid about some of the kits I've used. 
While I have never had a tube come loose after gluing…...
Ok, let me back up. I have but not in a very long time. I follow many of the same suggestions here about scuffing tools and using quality glue and all that and haven't had any issues in a long time about tubes coming loose after gluing. 
However, if I'm understanding your question right, you're getting what I call sloppy holes while drilling for the tubes, creating an ugly gap between your tube and blank. 
If that is correct, I used to get sloppy holes as well with some kits. 
So here goes with my opinions.

We'll use 7mm kits for this explanation. 
All 7mm kits are not the same as all other 7 mm kits. 
Sometimes I find a certain style kit that when I drill a 7mm hole the tubes simply don't fit right. 
Now granted, I've never had this issue with 7mm kits. It's usually the larger sized, but I hope you get the point. 
Here's what I started doing. 
In my findings, one type of kit in the same line is usually the same. So that is not an issue. 
If I am trying something I've never worked with before I test fit holes before working with my intended blank. 
I'll start by drilling a 7mm hole in a piece of scrap to see how the tubes fit. 
If it is loose, I'll start with a smaller bit and try that. I have a huge set of bits that has fractional sizes, lettered sizes, numbered sizes, as well as sizes by decimal point measurements. 
I have had to try several bits of several different size designations before getting a tube fit that I am happy with. 
I hope all that makes sense.

I don't think anyone is trying to mess with my head as far as tube sizes. 
I think that depending on what factory made each type of kit or tubes may use different equipment to manufacture the parts, tubes, and bits that I get from PSI. 
Due to these differences, sometimes the sizing may be off by just a minute measurement of difference. 
Because if this the recommended drill bit may not produce the desired hole for a particular tube.

Once I've figured out the size I like for a particular style kit, I make a note of it in a tablet that I keep other kinds of mind numbing information in for future reference so that I do not need to go through all I this if I choose to get more of the same style kits.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

I have also never had a loose tube. I have made hundreds of pens and lately have been turning dozens of double edge razor handles (which have 7mm tubes in portions of them.) My process is as follows:

1 - USE A PEN MAKERS DRILL BIT!! The ones that you get from PSI or woodcraft are crappy. I use the colt or whiteside. They are absurdly expensive but worth every penny. Not only are the holes exact, I can plow through 3.5" of exotic endgrain in one stroke. No pulling the bit out to eject chips. I drill on a drill press.

2 - I use thin CA. The whiteside bits are so precise it you will push out all of the meduim.

3 - I apply the CA to the outside of the tube and twist it as I go in. No playdough, no nasty stuff in the tubes, and no waiting forever for epoxy to set. 5 minutes later I ream the blanks and turn them.


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## SteveCherry (May 21, 2013)

William and lumberjoe, very good information, thank you I appreciate it. I'll have to start keeping records too - it might help me recognize problems that crop up with specific tools/techniques. In tools, you usually get what you pay for lumberjoe - I'll have to consider upgrading to better drill bits.


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

I read more and more about people plugging the ends of tubes before gluing. 
While I agree this is a good technique, I tried it and figured out it just wasn't for me. It became an extra step that I don't do. 
I glue my tubes in with thick CA glue. I use a plastic applicator tip from a tube of automotive silicone. The stepped shape of it works great for a variety of tube sizes and the glue does not stick to it. I apply a line or two of gle to the tube and twist it as I push it into the hole. 
After the glue is set, I ream out the tube with the clean out tool in the center of the barrel trimmer that I got from PSI. If one is particularly badly gunked up on the interior of the tube, I have a 1/4" drill bit that I turned a handle for that I use to get the worst of the mess out with. I find the 1/4" drill bit fits perfectly inside a 7 mm tube. For other sizes I carefully use the leading edge if the bit and scrape the dried glue out.


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## SteveCherry (May 21, 2013)

William, good idea, thanks.


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

William,
I don't think many people are using wax or whatever to plug the tubes if they are using CA. Mostly the guys who are using epoxy are the "tube-plugging crowd". IMHO epoxy is far superior to CA in multiple aspects, but it is extremely messy. The spill over is very hard and not easy to clean, reamers and drill bits are not easy to clean this up with. Whether you use CA or epoxy is all matter of personal choice. Also, I could not agree more about the numbered and lettered drill bits. I always drill mine a few thousands oversize to accomidate painted tubes and paint inside the blank. Those drill sets with fractional and lettered and numbered bits are awesome.

Steve, 
Just another suggestion, a lot of guys that make pens as a serious hobbyist or profession use a Lock-tite type thread-locker on the kit when you insert the kit parts into the tubes. I have used the "blue" version with a lot of success. It locks it down well and cleans up easy. Easy clean up can not be said for CA in this application.
Before everyone jumps on the thread and says I have never had kit parts come loose on me, remember most of the time we do not carry these pens ourselves, and the people that do carry them on a daily basis, drop them, twist them open 25 to 50 times a day, and pry with them etc, etc, etc…..We must build these for the long haul and plan for failure. For a few years I made pens for an Art Gallery. They were high end, segemented, or customized pens. They sold for 125 to $250.00, trust me, when one of those broke, you heard about it.
Mike


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## SteveCherry (May 21, 2013)

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice; I appreciate your help. Great forum. Everybody got a pen for Christmas, and although I knew they were not perfect, everyone was happy - very gratifying.


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