# My Nightmare with Laguan Tools



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

unfortunately there are dozens more unsatisfied customers on Ljs including myself


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## KellyS (Jul 20, 2009)

I'm not a brain about these things, but could you possibly talk to your credit card company about refusing the payment? I think you can sometimes do that and refuse to pay and then they have to deal with Visa or Mastercard. Visa and Mastercard could be the 800 pound gorilla you need to make things happen. It might be worth looking into. What about the Better Business Bureau? I've heard that sometimes helps too, although I've never really done that myself. I hate to hear about your bad luck. I'll keep the Laguna Name in mind as a product to avoid.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

I have been a lot of bad stuff on LJ about Laguna tools lately.
It would much cheaper for them to give you satisfaction than to receive all the bad advertisement. 
Someone over there is not thinking straight and should be replaced.
Bert


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## FatScratch (May 11, 2009)

Sorry to hear about your disappointing experience. I don't understand one thing - if the manufacturer has offered to finally replace the products, then what is the problem? Are they trying to charge you something for a replacement? If I misunderstood and they are not following through or trying to charge you additional fees, then I would do a few things:

1) Start documenting every interaction you have with this company - specific dates and times you called, who you talked to, etc. Always get names or employee numbers.
2) Don't do anything to alter the machines, unless it is from written instructions sent by the manufacturer (see documentation above)
3) Get a copy, if you don't have already, of the freight bill where you noted the damage.
4) Start communicating in writing, preferably a well written complaint letter, sent certified mail, to the company's President/CEO of US operations (take the issue directly to the top where the decision can be made) addressing the specific problems with the machines, what you have done to try and remedy the situation (calls to customer service, etc.), and the specific problems you have encountered with their customer service (freight charges, restocking fees, etc.). Make sure you also highlight any safety issues which are present as a result of damage/manufacturer's defects.
5) You could attempt to dispute the charge, if you paid by credit card (this can get a bit tricky, but could be worth pursuing)
6) If the manufacturer continues their course of dealing over the next couple of weeks/months and you have documented everything as I mentioned above, then contact your State Attorney General's office (http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/resources.shtml ). There are a lot of consumer protection laws that exist, you just have to be willing to do some homework.

You have spent a significant amount of money on products which are damaged and/or defective, at no fault of your own. You need to pursue this problem as a legal matter if you want true restitution. Do not settle for restocking fees or paying shipping charges if these damages are not your fault. Well written communication is better than phone conversations, and try not to get combative with the manufacturer. If necessary, consult an attorney - you spent $6,200 on defective/damaged equipment, you may need to spend some money to get this problem fixed; I would just make certain not to pay any more money to the manufacturer.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

In addition to what Kellys writes, when using Amex there is a customer protection plan for thing like this one.
Did you use an Amex credit card?


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## CalebJames (May 19, 2010)

I appreciate everyones responses. I am definately not soliciting lj's to call and harass laguna. I started this blog as a way to express my frustation to other woodworks that might be able to relate to my problem. I hope this will be a positive blog where laguna takes care of a disatisfied customer.

By the way I was offered a replacement but I waited on this machine for 3 months. It was supposed to only take three weeks. I just sold my other jointer and planer and am not willing to wait all summer to get a replacement. I am still waiting to even here if they have one in stock. Just wait for a call back again. This is my frustration.


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

After all of the *negative reports regarding Laguna Tools and their lack of customer service skills *, why is anybody still giving them their hard earned money ? 
If I read this correctly , You bought *3 machines *and they *are all defective *?? (1 bandsaw and 1 combo unit)
Did they reimburse you for your time spent to rebuild the bandsaw ?

Bottom line is still , Buyer Beware ! Do some research before laying out your cash….


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## nuttree (Apr 19, 2009)

Unbelievable, I am in the market for a new band saw and will not buy a Laguna for this reason. This deal has just cost them at least a grand from me alone. I own my own business and that means I take responsibility for the actions of my business. Ownership is more than just cutting checks and investing profits. It is the requirement to take responsibility, or ownership, at every level of the firm. It is very unfortunate that, as Clark Howard puts it "Customer N0-Service" is so prevalent in todays larger corporations. I hope you receive a positive resolution, but for me, I'm out on Laguna tools and so is my buddy.


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## reggiek (Jun 12, 2009)

Please folks, read the reviews here and on other blogs about Laguna. There has been uncountable customer service nightmares detailed from customers of this company. They do not honor their commitments, their tools are crap, and customer service is and has been a complete travesty.

I would demand that they take the equipment back and refund your money. They are not entitled to a restock fee when the equipment is received in such disorder. To ask you to perform repairs/alterations to the machine is totally rediculous and would be a way to dissavow your warrantee.

How did you purchase the equipment? If you used a credit card you have recourse with the card company to dispute the charge and to get your money…if you paid by check…and it has cashed, you will be stuck dealing with them…if it hadn't cashed…stop payment immediately.

I would definitely recommend you do as was mentioned above and keep detailed notes of your contacts with them, their promises and the results/lack of results from this, the monies you are out of pocket for (keep all receipts and mark what they relate too). If you must obtain legal assistance to get your money back, these items will enable you to receive compensation for your troubles - and can demonstrate to a judge or jury that these folks were not only negligent…but were willfully so (it could enable you to receive some punitive damages).

*All in all folks….LAGUNA is a NO BUY-- anyone that purchases from them is doing so at great risk!*


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## HokieMojo (Mar 11, 2008)

when i go to the reviews page, there is only one bad review (not counting this one). I do get the overall impression that CS is lacking at this company from time to time, but if you read the other negative review, it certainly sounds as if thing might have gotten blown out of proportion. No one else on here has posted their own negative experiences. they are just posting hearsay.


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## Sean (Jul 2, 2008)

Hokie, i havent read more than this as a bad review, but i have talked to several people who havent bothered to write up their bad experience. From my research when i was looking to buy a bandsaw, they are not a quality company in my opinion. Ask a-1jim up at the top, he's a customer who didnt write up a review, but has nothing good to say about laguna.


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## CalebJames (May 19, 2010)

I just spoke to Ron at Laguna. (I hope he doesn't mind me mentioning his name) He did offer to return the machine at there cost and give me a full refund. I was told that tomorrow I will have the info about when a freight carrier will be here to pick it up. I think they are really trying to work with me now. I do believe they will do what they said and I hope the customer service "hick up" I experienced was just that. I will update this to let everyone know how they are doing. I think if it is as Ron said then I will be a satisfied customer.


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## PCM (Jan 23, 2010)

If you paid by credit card contact the credit card company. If laguana is not standing behind their product the credit card company may be able to assis you.


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## Chelios (Jan 2, 2010)

Like I have said before…I am still in the market for a nice bandsaw and WAS considering Laguna. From all of your bad experiences I have been convinced not to look at that brand any longer. What brand do you guys really like for quality and customer service that is responsive?

I am glad it worked out in the end for you.


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## tunkvalleycustomwood (Nov 24, 2009)

chelios look at the grizzly brand i have a shop full of them and i have never had a problem with them yet.i have had a griz table saw that is about twenty yeard old i bought used and had grizzly rebuild for me thay paid for the freight both ways when they did the work and only charged me 200 dollars well worth it so i bought my large cabinet saw from them.when the cabinet saw showed up before i asemebeled it the first thing i did was pkug it in to run the moter and found it wouldnt start i called them right away and they sent out a tech from bellingham to my shop the next day.a 5 hour drive i might add .he fixed the problem in about ten minutes and helped me set the saw up for no charge.plus took me out to lunch on the company card.its that kind of customer service that has made me a true blue or should i say green grizzly customer.they have a large selection of band saws you should give them a try


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## CalebJames (May 19, 2010)

That is awesome tunk valley custom woodworks. I love to hear stuff like that. I think when this is all over, which I hope is very soon then I will start a blog about LJ's positive customer service experiences. I think we should pump the good as well as the bad, whoever that may be. It is obvious it helps. Again thanks for everyones feedback so far.

By the way I noticed a lot of people posted comments about calling my credit card and doing a chargeback. I had called them. I however didn't start a dispute since it can actually slow down the process for a refund. Let me explain. I have been selling high ticket items ($1500-12,000) on eBay for 7 years now. I have had about 2 or 3 experiences where a customer didn't appreciate that it at times may take a day or two to pick up an item that was damaged. I even do what most won't and give a refund before it lands on my dock. But despite my promises to give a full refund and apologize for their inconvenience they get impatient and do a charge back. Now what would have only taken maybe a 4-5 days at the most turned in to two weeks because the credit card company's have a process that they have to complete once it starts. Then my hands are tie even if I tell them to refund the money. Fortunately I have always had happy customers in the end. I have maintained 100% feedback on eBay for all this time. Even eBay has call me to comment on my success. I think we should treat each other like we want to be treated and it always seems to work. That isn't a new thought, though.


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## FMG (Jun 1, 2009)

James,
I may be the only one. I bought the 14LTE 2 years ago and had great luck with it. I was also told by the salesman that their production facilities "were being moved to somewhere in Asia".That may explain their quality control issues. I did not have as good an experience with Laguna's resaw king blades. Very exspensive,, and quite frankley crap. I have a Grizzly G0690 and Grizzly 8" Jointer as well. Awesome cust service and really, really nice machines. I know this doesn't help you but I feel bad for you. Hope all works out


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

I am very sorry to hear all this and it appears that Laguana gets many bad reviews but to attempt to keep things in perspective. A new 10' sliding table saw from Altendorf is about 30K, A new SCM shaper can hit 25K, A new Griggio 24" planer can hit 20K. I recently bought a Hoffman haunching tool and that set me back almost 17K (and its manual). This Laguana tools are cheap generic spinoffs of industrial tools made in Germany and Italy and they will never do, what they seem to claim they will do…...............you simply cannot get a silk scarf from a pigs ear.

I was at a woodworking show helping an associate sell border line commercial industrail tools. I remember a guy coming up to me and asking me to re-saw a piece of jatoba on the re-saw bandsaw and I replied that there was no way in hell, this bandsaw was made to re-saw jatoba where he replied that the "Laguana" rep said his re-saw bandsaw could do it so off we went. The Laguana rep did his fancy footwork and fancy sales pitch and then started re-sawing…..............within seconds the bandsaw came to an abrupt stop, the whole booth went "BANG". It was utter BS but funny to watch.

Experience is a tough teacher. test first…............lesson later.

For what its worth. My TS was made in 1988 making it 22 years old. I had the main bearings on the arbor changed this year, otherwise it has worked flawlessly from day 1.


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## Garry (Oct 5, 2006)

Thanks for posting this information about Laguna. I will hold off on my bandsaw purchase until I see how they resolve your issues.


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## CalebJames (May 19, 2010)

Well the machine got picked last night. I am still trying to "negotiate" what a "full refund" will be. I have to admit I know I will be out something. I have spent $71.15 in materials from Home Depot to just properly repackage the unit. It took me about 3 hours to get it on the pallet, take it apart, secure everything and crate it. Fortunately I work for myself and can sometimes take off like that. I don't know what someone would do who has to be at work. Anyways I will continue to post.


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## CalebJames (May 19, 2010)

OK I just got a missed call from Laguna and then I got an email follow up clearing up the matter. It looks like I will get the refund I demanded. It is just so weird how I can email them or call and leave a message and nothing. But as soon as I put a post up I will get a response in about 20-30mins. I mean I didn't get anywhere until Wednesday when I started this blog. You guys and gals are great. I can't say enough about the great community here at LJ. I have received a lot of nice personal messages. I wish I had joined this place before. I always just posted my projects to facebook for friends and family. I will come here from now on. Thanks again all.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Caleb-Thanks for posting this info. I was all set to pull the trigger on a new Laguna BS, then read the posts here and did some further research. I think you may have saved me from the type of aggravating situation you ran into.

I just placed an order for a new Jet BS instead.


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## cosmicturner (Feb 7, 2009)

Got to love the LJ's, there is strength in numbers the up side of the internet.


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

A letter from a lawyer is helpful.


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## CalebJames (May 19, 2010)

I totally agree with you Deke. I have learned from this to thoroughly research companies before doing business long distance. I had stumbled onto a bad review before buying but just thought it was a one off kinda thing. Well I hope they learn to focus on treating people right. I mean I know that some customers are totally unreasonable but you can't let that get you callused and start assuming every person who calls is just an idiot asking for something because they know they can work the system and get and undeserved freebee. I don't know if that is what happens to companies that get them to treat people so poorly but whatever the reason it is unacceptable. Ultimately they will have to turn it around or face loosing a ton of business. I mean it is only a matter of time before your customer who is buying online also starts to find reviews like this and it start to affect your sales. It is short sighted to not get this customer service problem worked out.

To update everyone, I am still waiting on my refund. They should receive it back tomorrow or the next day. I think 48 hours is enough time to verify that I did return everything that went with the J/P combo and give me a refund. I hope they don't try and pull something. I think they won't. I don't think they will risk more bad feedback here. I think they just want this all to go away. I know they are about to come out and promote a new line of tools that are updated so I am sure they need the online "airwaves" clear. We will see…


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## CalebJames (May 19, 2010)

How do you guys feel about Minimax. I found one locally and it is a 5 function combo model CU300 Smart. It looks incredible. I am going to drive out and check it out this weekend. I haven't found anything but good stuff about the company. It is a used machine but even so you at one point have to get parts from the manufacturer.


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## twokidsnosleep (Apr 5, 2010)

Caleb, thanks for taking the time to post this. 
It is helpful for those researching where to spend our equipment dollars.
I will keep searching for my bandsaw.
Best of luck on your refund


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## jplhomes (Feb 4, 2010)

The amount of bad press that Laguna has recieved in the past three months is hard to belive. I would look at the hammer combo machines . I have heard nothing but good things.


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## Carpintonto (Jan 27, 2010)

I've bought a BS from a Laguna dealers in Canada. The machine had a minor damage when arrived. A good friend of mine performed a magnificent set up to my BS and it performs good. The guides are not good enough for the bucks we pay for these kind of machines. After that I've ordered a 10" conbination planer/joiner… " what a nightmare for the Canadian dealer ". The machine couldn't be aprouved CSA, so I canceled the purchase. Some friends and I own some Laguna tools, most of us agree that the quality is not as good as we thought it was. Now their customer service sucks big time!!!. Even if the service people are wiling to help, the family that owns Laguna seem not to give a flying F!!!. I'm glad Laguna tools monitor this great website, and I hope they get a better organize before they loose their business for real. Excuse my language!.


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## CalebJames (May 19, 2010)

So I finally got all of my refund. It took a couple of follow up calls to set it all straight. So to fill everyone in I have to tell you what was really going on. I basicly got blackmailed by Laguna. I started this review and blog on a Wednesday. By the middle of the day I finally started getting somewhere with them. Well turns out by the end of the day I got an email and a phone call from a Laguna Rep. What about… none other than my Lumberjocks review. I was told that if I took down my review/blog then they would take my machine back. At the time I thought "What do I care. I just want my money back and this all over with". I was also thinking that maybe there customer service wasn't so bad. Well after a few more days and the continued attitude I got I decided that they weren't sincere about caring if they did the right thing and stand behind there machine but rather to just clear some bad PR. I decided to play there game. However I am not going to take this review down. I think that others like me need to know that this company can't be trusted. I don't know what I would have had to of gone through if it hadn't been for this community here at Lumberjocks. Thank you to everyone that called them and let them hear that the community of woodworkers won't stand for getting promised a high quality machine (with a price tag to match) and a warranty to back it and then getting told "screw you" when you have a legitimate problem.


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## CalebJames (May 19, 2010)

Buy the way all I bought a used MiniMax CU300 smart and it is a great machine.


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

It's amazing how much better the CS gets when all of a sudden several thousand potential customers hear about a problem. It works the same way when several thousand potential customers read about what a great product the"xyz" brand is.
I had a problem with a company that I didn't hear from at all, until I posted on a couple of forums. Amazing, got a response and a new item within a couple of days.
Advertising works both ways. BTW,I have a grizz BS and love it.


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## nuttree (Apr 19, 2009)

I am glad you received your refund, but I will NEVER buy a Laguna product after this. There are several other fantastic manufacturers out there. Laguna could go out of business and the others would grab their market share so fast you would hear the collapse of the vacuum they left behind.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

I personally don't own laguna tools in my shop but I have heard nothing good about this company .Their stuff is not cheap either ,so you would think quality would be assured, but sadly not.My advice is to do all you can to get your money back and go elsewhere if you can.This will not be resolved soon if you don't, and further down the line their shabby responses do nothing to instill confidence to yourself as a buyer . 
Sorry and good luck.
perhaps we should all write to laguna on your behalf stating this is putting us off as potential customers it might work what do you think guys?Alistair


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## CalebJames (May 19, 2010)

Yes Andy I agree. I need a 3/4" slot mortising bit and they are currently the only US company I can find that carries one that fits my machine. I need this for a project but I wouldn't dare purchase from them. I am done for good with them. That should be no surprise.


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## CalebJames (May 19, 2010)

Scotsman. Thanks for your concern. I did finally get my full refund. I do think that writtng them or whatever kind of response you feel nesseccary will keep the need of good CS in the forefront of there minds.


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## Binn (Apr 24, 2010)

Caleb,
It is a shame that Laguna keeps doing this to their customers, read my review(You don't get what you paid for!). I want everyone to know that Laguna Tools are not made in Europe, they are made in Taiwan. I had to threaten them that I was going to contact my Lawyer if they did not give me a full refund in which they did. As of today I still have no table saw 8/14/2010. Laguna owner Torben has never contacted me to apoligize for my inconveince, they will not last long in this business if they do not change. I think it would be a great idea if all dissatisfied customers were to make a PR commercial stating our concerns with their customer service and machines. Just hold them to your to get your refund and do not pay any restocking fees. BI


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## reggiek (Jun 12, 2009)

I am surprised that they keep in business….someone has to be buying their junk? I have seen bad reviews on every blog site I am a member of….and still they keep getting unwary customers that end up jumping through hoops to hopefully get what they were expecting. I bet there are alot of folks that have given up the ghost…and ended up with a sub par piece of (you know what I mean) from this sub par company. I luckly did some research when I was set to buy one of their lathes…I talked to folks…and heard more horror stories then are posted here. I would rather spend more money for quality….and not have to risk getting the garbage that Laguna is providing.

Grizzly has been an excellent manufacturer….they have a great customer service and their business ethic has made them the "go to" for the larger machinery, at least in my experience. Jet, Delta, and Powermatic are also in the same class….but sometimes are a bit more in costs….I have several Jet and Powermatic tools in my shop and they have been stellar as far as function and customer support when I have a question or issue. By far, the best for smaller tools is Festool….you just cannot beat their support. You do not have to wait for days for a response…and you will be hard put to find a negative review anywhere….the only negative thing I have ever read on a post is the cost. They are not cheap….but they sure make one heck of a tool….I used to avoid them because of the price….but after buying one….having it last and last..then do a spectacular job as advertised….then to top it off…having the top of the line dust collection…....Combine this with having their customer service almost on call….I have found that the cost isn't an issue anymore….their tools do what they say they will do…and extremely well.

Glad to hear you got your refund….you are one of the lucky ones from what I have seen…..Sad that you have to go through so much though…..I would hope Laguna would get the message….but apparently NOT…I have said this before…..but Laguna is a NO BUY…on my book….and on quite a few others (anyone thats has asked me for a recommendation has switched from Laguna)....hopefully this review will save some others from your fate.


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