# Hand planing maple



## MapleHead (Mar 4, 2014)

Hi All
Newbie here. I've read several posts from this site and I am going to make it my home for woodworking info.

I am entering the hobby luthier world. I have a pine Tele guitar in progress that is coming out pretty good. I bought some 8/4 maple for another guitar body project and I am in the process of getting two pieces ready to be edge glued for a body blank. This went well with the pine. I can't even see the edge lines. However, with the pine body, I edge glued two 7/8 pieces, and then two more, and then sand which glued them together. So the only edge planing was with 7/8 thick boards. With the maple, I'm using 1 and 3/4 thick boards, thus eliminating the need for gluing top and bottom pieces.
But….
I cannot edge plane these two pieces for the life of me. I've already put in twenty hours trying to do so. I have a cheap jack plane from Buck Bros that is nice and sharp. So is my issue here related to the width, the hardness of the wood, my inexperience or what?

Like I said, I edge planed the pine really well, using all the techniques I've read about here. So what gives?


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

Pine is more forgiving in some ways. Your plane needs to be better tuned and sharper to plane harder wood as well. Your cheap jack plane is probably just not up to the job, even if it were fettled properly. It flexes too much and probably has casting and other problems. Better would be to get a vintage plane in good shape as they were very well made back then, or buy a new premium plane.

Oh and welcome to Lumberjocks.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Get a 100 grit sanding belt. Cut it and tape it to a flat
surface. Rub your edges on it until they are flat and
square.

Maple is unforgiving and you'll struggle with it unless
you have seriously sharp tools. What kind of sharpening
system are you using?


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Buck Brothers plane is a red flag for me. I would look for a pre-WW2 Stanley or equivalent plane (Sargent, Ohio, Union to name a few)


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

Welcome to Lumberjocks

Not that trial and error aren't an effective learning tool, but you may want to practice on more scrap before tackling it with good wood. That being said, I am a power tool person who would Butcher the crap out of it with hand tools.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

^After all that, let us know what "I cannot edge plane these two pieces for the life of me" means. Describe the outcome and somebody here will most likely have the answer.

Welcome to LJ's.


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## MapleHead (Mar 4, 2014)

Hi All
Thanks for the replies.
Don, I am planing convex. The ends just keep getting lower than the middle. I'm following the method of front pressure first, then pressure over the whole plane, and then back pressure, to no avail. If I ever manage to get them near flat, I then check squareness and discover that that is way off. So I square them up, only to discover they are no longer flat again. It's a viscous cycle.
I sharpened my iron with the Scary Sharp method. It worked pretty good. One thing I noticed about the planing is that, no matter how I set the blade, it seems to change within a few strokes. I am always having to stop and tune it in.


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## TerryDowning (Aug 8, 2012)

You also need to pay close attention to grain direction. If planing against the grain or "uphill" you will have lots of tear out regardless. Grain direction is very important when using hand tools.

Try the "scoop" method for applying pressure to the plane. Try to scoop out the middle of the board. You can't because the plane won't let you, the end result is a flat board/edge.

You can also make a fence to attach to the side of your plane to help keep things square. (The sides of the plane need to be square to the sole for this)



If you're planning on gluing these together, then more important than square to the face of the board is relative flatness to each other.

Book match both boards together and plane both joining edges at the same time. This way they are in the same plane when you "open" the book to do the glue up. The joints are flat relative to each other but not necessarily square to the face.

Try tightening the lever cap screw a bit. It may be too loose. Make sure that the frog adjusters are tight as well.

Practice on scrap hardwood until you get the hang of it. Figured maple is a terrible thing to waste.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Shifting iron: your lever cap screw may be too loose. The 
lever cap should require some effort to clamp and unclamp,
sometimes almost enough that you'll be tempted to pry
it up with a screwdriver. It varies from plane to plane and
some of mine perform well with a less-tight lever cap screw. 
Also, the screw that tightens the chipbreaker to the blade 
should be tight to pull some of the spring out of the
chipbreaker.

In terms of your bulging middles, that's a technique problem,
but you'll struggle to resolve that issue if your iron is shifting
around on you.


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## MapleHead (Mar 4, 2014)

I definitely go with the grain. I finger tighten the cap and chip breaker screws. I also ground and honed the chip breaker so that it's flat on the iron.

Is the width of 1 and 3/4 inches a lot to edge plane?


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## MapleHead (Mar 4, 2014)

Terry and Loren, the rest of your replies just came in. Weird. I only saw just a sentence at first.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)




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## TerryDowning (Aug 8, 2012)

Yeah, I saw your reply to Don and did a quick edit to add more info.


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

A couple of things you might try with less then perfectly flat and tuned hand plane.
The blade needs to be sharp, at least sharp enough that it will dig into a fingernail held at a shallow angle-say 10degrees.
Watch the grain direction of the wood. Try skewing the plane at an angle, so as the sole has less contact with the wood, the blade is more slicing at an angle.
Might help you to get by for now.


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## MapleHead (Mar 4, 2014)

Terry, if I book match, don't the two boards together need to be less wide than the iron? Mine together would be 3.5".

I'll try tightening up the screws. I think I might have had the plane skewed a bit when I did the pine. I'll try that again.

My iron is definitely sharp. It easily cuts fingernail.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

If its sharp and you get decent shavings, then the problem is probably you. (Except for the moving iron, Loren dealt with that)

First, its the reason jointers are a lot longer than jacks. A jointer would help with the convexing. That's not to say with a little practice and the right technique you can't joint with a jack, its just harder. It also depends on how long the stock is. If its over 4' or so, a jointer would help.

Lay off the method of front pressure first, then pressure over the whole plane, and then back pressure. Put even pressure throughout the stroke. I think you're taking it to literal. The idea is to keep the plane flat 100 % of the time.

Skewing the plane will help cut, but to me it would make it harder to keep it flat when jointing. I always skew the plane when smoothing, but its harder to do when jointing.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

How long are the boards you you are planing? Long boards the jack could be following the overall curve of the boards. This is where a Jointer plane would help.

Terry also may want to explain the scoop method if he is thinking of something else but I think he is talking about making the middle of the board slightly narrower than the end. When you clamp the boards the hollow is clamped out. You do this by starting the cut inside from the end the board and stopping before you get to the other end. Once you have the board the way you want you take a final full length pass.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Looks like Don and I posted at the same time…


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## MapleHead (Mar 4, 2014)

Ok, Don, this part is embarrassing. The stock is only 17" long. So I figured a jack plane is like a jointer in this case as it's almost as long as this short stock.


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## TerryDowning (Aug 8, 2012)

They two 8/4 boards would indeed be wider than a standard Jack plane. You would not be able to use a fence (No big deal really). It would be treated like flattening a board. As long as the joints are flat and parallel in relation to each other is what really matters for a glue joint. Pay attention to the grain orientation when aligning for the planing make sure you are going downhill on both pieces.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

^that made me chuckle. Yea. I guess a #8 would be a bit of an overkill. Try the "same pressure throughout" the stroke. For a board that short, that would be my recommendation.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

and Terry's fence idea isn't a bad idea either. I use one all the time.


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## MapleHead (Mar 4, 2014)

This helps me avoid a thousand words.


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## MapleHead (Mar 4, 2014)

There should be a pic attached


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

how did you attach it?


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## MapleHead (Mar 4, 2014)




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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

embedding-pictures,

Now i see them.


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## TerryDowning (Aug 8, 2012)

Nice fence Don!








I can see some mods I can make to mine.
Mine works on my 5, 6 and 7 (Millers Falls 22 actually) planes I do like the handle and the fact that it bolts to the plane.

Mine uses a small C Clamp to attach to the side.


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## MapleHead (Mar 4, 2014)

I have a wood burning stove just five feet away from this maple, very tempting.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Video


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## MapleHead (Mar 4, 2014)

I think I might try and make a fence for this plane this weekend.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Another question. How are you holding the workpiece?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

just keep in mind, if the holes weren't already in the 608, I would have needed plan B.

*MapleHead*, are you planning the two pieces at the same time.

Maybe its the picture, but the joint looks ok.


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## MapleHead (Mar 4, 2014)

A small bench vise with a 2 by 4 underneath the front end so that it doesn't move down as I plane forward.


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## MapleHead (Mar 4, 2014)

No, separately.
Trust me, the joints are terrible. I can read a pill bottles print in the light it passes through.

When I planed the pine, I could lightly put the two boards together and the lines would disappear.

Will post a pic of the pine body soon.


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## TerryDowning (Aug 8, 2012)

just keep in mind, if the holes weren't already in the 608, I would have needed plan B.

Got me thinking about an integrated clamp though, I can't tell you how many tines I've lost that little c clamp.

Need to think about the curves on all of my planes and see if I can make it work on all of them.


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## MapleHead (Mar 4, 2014)




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## MapleHead (Mar 4, 2014)

Bottom of pine guitar body


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

put the two pieces side by side. It gives a wider surface to help keep things square.

Keep at it. You'll get it, we've all been there.

There are a few fences with earth magnets if you search.


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## MapleHead (Mar 4, 2014)

One other question, particularly pertaining to maple, and all hard woods.
When you have your plane set up just right, how much effort is required to start your plane?
When I set mine I either have zero cutting going on, just a small amount in the corner, or if it's cutting the width, then the start requires a lot of effort.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Another thing you could try is a long shooting board.










from http://sheworkswood.com/category/shooting/


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

it depends on the depth of cut but For smoothing it shouldn't be much effort.

If you're gonna be serous about this, you're gonna need something better than a Buck Bros. For a jack they may be ok, but ….............


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## MapleHead (Mar 4, 2014)

Eventually I will have some cash for a good plane. Gotta make do now.

I like this shooting jig idea too, but is it only for squaring?


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

For surface they are called planing stops.










You can also use them to square edges.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Darn the image was cut off

Original page…

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/108812/a-planing-stop-for-long-and-thin-boards


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Also, if you shop around the flea markets can probably find a good Stanley #4 or #5 for less than you paid for the buck brothers.

Look for one with a 1910 patent date behind the frog. (single 1910 and two 1902 dates or a single 1910 date)


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## MapleHead (Mar 4, 2014)

Do they really make a lot of difference?


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Simple answer, Yes.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Simple answer, Yes.

Agree!


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## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

I go for a low center of gravity to avoid rocking the plane and use my fingers as a guide to cut in the same area of the cutter.



















In luthiery a sprung joint is not advised but I like a cigarette paper gap, a one clamp glue up.










Lately I slip match to avoid the light in the opposite directions of a book match.



















25mm top & back.


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## TerryDowning (Aug 8, 2012)

+1

WWII with their heavy castings and earlier.

Except Millers Falls up through the mid 1950's are also good (Type 3 and 4 oldtoolheaven.com).

Nice looking work Tex!!


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## MapleHead (Mar 4, 2014)

Tex, you have pics of the finished guitar?


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## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

MapleHead, I've been slack, this has been on the go for awhile.










25in scale, 15th fret body join. Made in the same mold as the one below, almost the same footprint as a Les Paul.

23in scale. http://lumberjocks.com/Texcaster/blog/39735


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