# Heating Woodworking Shop



## dalec

I was reading one of the forum topics and someone in response to a dust collection question, got off on to heating a small shop. Rather than hi-jacking the thread, I thought I would submit the topic as a new one.

Winter is coming, so working in an unheated shop becomes more uncomfortable for many of us. In certain parts of the country heating the shop area is imperative. The thought occurred to me that woodworking produces a lot of saw dust, some that is very fine. Heat (sparks) and fine wood dust is not a great combination.

I realize dust collection is an integral part of managing and protecting us both the direct danger of explosions, but also from the health issue from inhaling fine dust particles. I also realize many of us have some basic dust collection systems, shop vac attached to exhaust ports on table saws and the like. Are there any recommendations regarding heating sources for this type of environment?

Just wanted to get this topic going.

Dalec


----------



## schroeder

We heat with wood stove. It's very safe, very efficient (being a wood shop n all). If it gets really cold, it sucks til it heats up …and we debate how bad we really need those short scraps of "someday project" wood. I can tell you from experience, there is virtually no danger of a dust explosion. But in the same spirit of trutheness - I wake up nights worrying about the damn woodstove in the shop. If I had my druthers - I'd use electric or forced air.
Thanks for bringing up the topic!
Schroeder


----------



## dalec

It sounds that the dust generated in typical woodworking may not approach levels of density necessary to create an explosive mixture of fuel, oxygen and spark/open flame.

Thanks Schroeder


----------



## dennis

I use wood in my house, but I spray so much finish and lay so much laminate I don't dare use wood heat. My main heat is a pair of wall mount electric heaters. I'm hoping to get a propane heat system that doesn't have a pilot light. I'm hoping someone knows about a radiant propane set up. Just a matter of $$$$$$


----------



## North40

Dennis - you might look at Pro-Com, they have several different propane heaters. I'm pretty sure they have a radiant propane wall unit. Northern Tool carries Pro-Com heaters. But have you priced propane recently?


----------



## dennis

I haven't yet….can it be worse than my electric bill? I hate to even think about it!


----------



## North40

I just built a shop this year (as you may know) and I was going to go propane because that's how I heat the house. But with the tank, the pad for the tank, the piping, the furnace, and then the cost of propane, I just bought a Cadet Hot One and hung it on the wall.

According to the DOE website, it takes about 26.75 KWh to produce the same BTU as a gallon of propane. I'm paying about 6½ cents per KWh, so if propane is over $1.74 per gallon, electric is cheaper (26.75 x .065). My last propane delivery for the house was $2.14 per gallon. Time to stock up on space heaters!


----------



## dennis

That is a nice little electric heater. I used one to heat my trailer when i built my house and it worked great.


----------



## North40

I have a 24×36 pole barn with 12' walls (about 16' at the peak) and so far the one heater is keeping up. We've only gotten down into the high 20s at night, but when I go out in the morning the heater is cycling off and on. Very happy with it so far!


----------



## saddlesore

It was I who gave that thread a hard right turn. Sorry, I work in a network operations center (NOC) where the pace can go from glacial to speed of light in seconds, and that is what happened after that reply. But I appreciate the creation of the new thread and the feedback. I agree, a wood stove is aesthetically pleasing and fuel is no problem, but at times my woodworking time comes in spurts, and the idea of lighting the stove and waiting for it to heat up my garage bothers me. Peter is right too, with price/bbl of good old west Texas crude approaching $100, propane is going up proportionately. And my electric bill is high enough already. I pay almost double what Peter pays per KWh. I'm not too worried about a particulate explosion from wood dust, because I would run the new air dust filter I just ordered for awhile before lighting any heater. Further suggestions from those experienced with this issue will be appreciated.

Thanks dalec!


----------



## dalec

I am starting to set up a small shop that shares space in a two car attached garage. It is in an unheated space. I plan to use an electric radiant space heater if I need to work in the shop this winter.

This discussion gets me thinking about my electrical demands on my garage electric circuit and maybe a need to add a circuit or two.

Dalec


----------



## Chipncut

Our city has an ordinance against wood stoves in garages. *To many garage fires!*

I have an small old natural gas furnace, that I suspended high up in my vaulted shop ceiling. I blocked off the air vents on it, & ran an 2" plastic pipe from outside directly into the furnace. I also have an electro-static filter on it. I run the fan on continuous, so my shop air is constantly being filtered. I have an automatic set back thermostat, & have it set to 45 degrees for when I'm not in the shop. It only takes a few minutes to get comfortable when I set the override on it. I found that 65 is real comfortable.


----------



## Tangle

The first thing I put in in my shop was a real furnace. I'd spent too many days in cold shops to ever want to do it again. I also have a Blaze King air tight wood stove. When it is really cold at night I load it full and go to bed. And, yeah, I sometimes wake up worried about the stove. We filled the propane tank yesterday and V-1 got us for about $150 more than ever before. We have a pretty small tank. The driver said that right now electric is the cheapest heat. He also said that wood in the valley is pushing $200/cord. By the time I buy diesel for the truck, gas and oil for the stove and take time out from the shop, wood doesn't come out that much better. Raise the prices again!!! Gotta stay warm and get to town somehow. Danged oil companies.


----------



## Brad_Nailor

Peter I like that Cadet, but I only have a couple 110-20 amp circuits in my garage..anyone have any 110V solutions?


----------



## Chipncut

I'd like to show you my furnace. I paid $25 for it. It's about 25,00 BTU. In mild weather the pilot light keeps the shop warm.

They were demolishing an old apartment house, & each apartment had its own furnace.

You can see what my outdoor air intake setup looks like. The trap is to prevent cold air from entering when the furnace isn't running.

You can also see the electrostatic filter at the bottom.

I ran a gas line right from my house gas meter. It doesn't seem to affect my total gas bill much.


----------



## dalec

Dick, What a nice and reasonably priced solution to cold winter days in the shop.

Dalec


----------



## MsDebbieP

Hi Dick… glad to see you are back in "activity here" after a couple of weeks away. I hope all is well.

An apartment furnace. Great idea


----------



## JGCW

I installed a radiant floor from these guys http://www.radiantmadesimple.com/

Extremely easy to install and it keeps my floors warm which is nice on cold mornings.

I'll probably have a used gas fired furnace installed soon for secondary heat.


----------



## Mario

I a looking into a Pellet stove. I would like to be able to burn both corn and wood pellets. I live in farming country and can buy corn by the ton from the local farmers. Several friends use them for primary heat for homes and pay $1.50 a day to heat the whole house. I like that.

You fill the hopper and let it burn, it has a thermostat to feed the fuel.

They are not cheap $700-2000) but they will make up the cost in how cheap they cost to run. I want the multi-fuel type because I am not sure how ethanol will impact corn prices.


----------



## Dadoo

I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned solar heat. Guys…Buddies…Go grab an issue of Mother Earth News. It's full of ads and ideas. Two of the best that I've seen (and easy to make) are an outdoor, solar heated water pipes and the other uses sunshine on a southern wall to heat a metal plate, in a chamber full of air, with a cold air intake on the bottom and a hot air exaust on the top. Gravity does it all! You know…heat rises and cold air sinks? Oh, I guess you could install a solar powered fan to help move the air thru the chamber. Do I have to draw this out?

My father-in-law once tossed a coil of 1" black plastic water pipe onto the garage roof…the pipe ends were hooked to his swimming pool filter and it heated the pool! Some of the newest rooftop heaters can heat a 1000 gallon tank of water to 135 degrees F in less than a few hours. You'd not only have hot water heat, but take the cover off the tank…Instant hot tub! Now that's the way to unwind after a long day in the shop!


----------



## brunob

I got a Hr. Heater 45,000 BTU propane.It's vented, very efficient and is zero clearance and hangs from the ceiling. That's important to me since space is limited in my 12 X 24 shop. I keep it set at 45 unless I'm in the shop. It takes just a few minutes to heat the building up.


----------



## IowaWoodcrafter

Peter,

I have a 600 square foot three car garage. Do you think the 4000 watt version of The Hot One would heat a garage that size? I have two 20 amp 220 volt circuits going to my garage.

The outlets I installed are not like the one pictured on Cadet's web site. Would there be any problem using a short custom made cable that connected the heater to the outlet I have installed? I installed outlet type L6-20 as specified by Grizzly for the 1023SLW tablesaw. I'd prefer to not change any of the outlets.


----------



## oakdust

I found a used gas furnace and didn't want to take up space in my two stall garage and also worry about spraying & glue fumes. So I built a 5' X 10' addition on the side of my garage, I was lucky and have a cement slab on that side of the garage. I ran a gas line from the basement (garage is attached) and ran right off the plenum and throug a window into the garage. But a thermostat on the wall and keep it at 65, and the shop stay s toasty warm in northern illinois.


----------



## North40

Owen, Sorry I didn't see your previous post! My shop is a little over 800 sqft, with 12' walls. I think the Hot One would take good care of you. I'm sure you could put a different cord on to fit your plug. I'm also sure it would void the warranty on the heater. What you might do is get a few feet of 12 gauge "SO" or "SJ" cable (basically bulk extension cord - available at HD) and the right ends to make an adapter.


----------



## motthunter

I use a super efficient radiant tube heater. It uses outside air for combustion so no dust can get caught in a flame. In addition, it makes my shop toasty by heating the contents rather than the air. When I am not working, I lower the thermostat to about 40 degrees just to keep my glue and finishes from freezing. It hangs 8" from the ceiling of my 12 foot high garage.

Since it is radiant heat and keeps the floor, walls, and contents warm, if the garage has to open, it takes very little time to recover a comfortable temperature. These heaters also work in auto garages and should not create a huge problem even in dusty or finish vapor situations. Once a month I climb up and blow the unit off with air. Thats it.

I would stay away from any heating system that requires a filter like forced air since the filter will get clogged and the air movement will kick up dust every time it starts. Also, I never use a wood burner since it consumes air and creates a humidity nightmare. My lumber is too valuable to ruin with a heater that will fog up my windows and ruin my stock.


----------



## bbrooks

Being from California, we do not have the cold like most of you do. However, the shop does get chilly. I have a standard oil-filled electric heater on wheels I bought last year for about $40. It slowly warms up the shop, and I do not have to worry about sparks, or combustion, or using up air. True, it would be better to have a larger heater, but this one gets me through the few months that it is needed.


----------



## davidtheboxmaker

Over here in the Uk it gets cold and damp for about 4 or 5 months of the year.
I use an oil filled (electric Powered) radiator during those months.
I pop into the shop 2 or 3 times a day and its usually nice and warm.


----------



## Karson

I've got a ceiling propane heater like you'd find in a service station. The shop is 25' X 55' and 16' ceiling. The walls are 7 1/2" thick with 6" of insulation. The ceiling has also the same I think. I don't run the heater at all unless I'm in the shop. The lowest that I remember seeing it in the shop was around 42 deg even with below zero outside. The previous owner put the water storage tank from the well in the workshop and he kept the heater on to keep the water from freezing. I did that also the first seeason I was here and went through about 300 gallons of propane.

So I said never again. The tank is under the stairs going up to the loft in the shop and so I boxed it in using hollow core doors and I put one of the little oil electric heaters that would kick on when it got to 42 degrees in that small space. Now the water coming out of the ground (well) is about 55 degrees so the water we use keeps the heater from ever having to come on.

I put in a new thermostat by the shop wall and it's set for 52 degrees when I turn the heater on. I wear a Tyvek Hasmat suit when working in the winter time. It keeps the sawdust off the clothes. (Wife is happy) and I'm toasty warm. No other coat. Just a long sleeve shirt or light sweater and I'm good to go.

I believe that the Wood Mass of the lumber pile has something to do with keeping the shop from freezing.

The office and bathroom have baseboard heat. The bathroom is set at 55 during the winter. A warmer seat is better. And the office heat only gets turned on when I'm in there. The office also has the water heater for the shop but I turned it off because i don't use hot water at all and I was just burning BTU's The office was about 65 deg from just the water heater running.

I just changed propane suppliers. The old one was quoting $3.59 per gallon. The new one provided the tanks ans sold me 200 gallons of propane for $400.00 and the gas will be $2.59 per gallon on refills.


----------



## Jamie

Karson, how much propane do you go through in a year or month?


----------



## Karson

Well Last year it was about 3 fill-ups which was about 65 gals each time so 200 or so.

But I keep cutting back on what I use. I emptied the tank that I had last year in preparation in returning it to the vendor. I had a 100 gal tank at the house that I never used. It was for a propane heater that I never used. So I buried copper pipe from the house to the workshop and attached it to the existing buried pipe. I knew they would never give me back what the tank contents were worth. So I've been emptying it all year. I also hocked up the bbq grill and Smoker to the propane. I figured why take the small tanks and pay an big price to refill them just use the big tanks. So I'm using the outdoor cooking from my big tanks. The one that's at the house is still sitting on 20% and has been for a couple of weeks. I've not been in the shop or it was in the 50's here and so the inside of the shop was the same as the outside.

So next week, after the grand-babies leave I'll be back out there and we are heading into the coldest part of the year. But I hope I only use 1/2 of the 200 gallons I have bought. That would make my heating cost around $250.oo for the year but right now the electric meter at the shop goes through $45.00 a month. Security lights and well/water system are the biggest part and the bathroom heat which is on. The electric hot water was costing about $15.00 a month and I never used any. Wash my hands It never warmed up, just the water in the pipes. So I don't use it.


----------



## DocK16

I have a 30×36 free standing barn style shop with 8 ft ceilings. The shop has half foundation and the other half is open underneith. The walls and ceiling are well insulated. I thought the best way to go would be a wood burner and a contractor friend even gave me one (Buck Stove) from a remodeling job he had done. I thought my problems were solved until I started pricing double and triple wall piping and all the attachments incling elbows. wall mounts and caps came to almost 2 grand and you still have to cut, split, and haul your own fuel which I'm not too fond of. (chain saws and I have history). So much for that idea. Electric? If you have a free standing shop with a separate electric meter it's not considered a residence and you'll be charged commercial rates for electricity which are almost twice per kilowatt hour than residential rates. At least that's the shaft; I mean story the power co gave me when they installed the meter. Anyway 2 grand buys alot of propane which is what I wound up going with. I used a small unvented wall unit (BTUs ?) 2-80 lb tanks in basement below 10 ft of copper line and some fittings and you're all set. I don't heat the shop at all when I'm not in it but leave the pilot on. If it's in the 30's it takes about an hour to heat the shop up to 68F. If it's in the single digits I have small heater that screws to the top of a 25 lb tank to help heat the place up then turn it off. The small wall unit will keep the shop at 68-70 once its heated. No wood to spit, or bags of pellets to carry. I do have to put the tanks on a dolly and load them on the pick up twice a year to fill them up, each time costs about $150. Each time I do this I say there has to be a cheaper way, have'nt found it yet and definitely none more convenient except a gas line from the house but that would take a 100 yard trench and alot of pipe.


----------



## MyronW

Since I live in Southern CA, heating the shop isn't that big of a deal. It's well insulated, and a 1500W electric heater will do just fine. However, my house furnace and water heater are on propane, and I just filled my tank today (247 gallons…) at $2.75 a gallon! I think I will choke now.
My energy bills are outrageous. I pay $121/month for propane on the level billing plan, and $460/month for electricity. I have compact fluorescent bulbs everywhere I can put them, but the clothes dryer is electric and it seems to run pretty much all day. Couple that with a 30 cu.ft. fridge and a 27 cu. ft. freezer, and the meter spins around pretty good.
If it were just my wife and I, we'd wrap up in blankets and hang the clothes out to dry. That's not going to happen anytime soon, though. We have been blessed with 8 kids, including 6 in the house, all with special needs ranging from autism to pulmonary problems, and that's a lot of wet clothes and bedding, not to mention a lot of groceries. We also have to keep the house above 72F, which isn't too hard unless the outside temp drops below 45F.
I have a couple of cords of oak firewood out back that burns real hot; the high-efficiency fireplace insert gets the house nice and warm.


----------



## scottb

Lots of great ideas here. Thanks for reminding me about Mother Earth Mag. Dadoo! I picked up an issue in the fall and love it. Lot of great ideas for me this year… We're getting the garden going, growing a lot of our own stuff… and the way heat prices are rising… if it wasn't for my FIL keeping us in free firewood (part time tree-work) then I'd be all over Solar. There's a great company for it in town… but I"m not sure we'll be in this house long enough to even break even on the investment… That said, the ideas you mentioned - there's definite potential there.

More of us should be taking advantage of all the free resourses we can. (Sun, gravity, worms in the garden) Aren't we a frugal lot (woodworkers) by nature anyhow? We're creative, industrious and resourceful people… we shouldn't be shelling out more money on anything (save our wives and kids) than wood and tools!

Oh, Bill, et al in CA…. can't you just use a nice bottle of California Red to keep you warm *after* your shop time?


----------



## MsDebbieP

all this talk about $$$ propane makes me wonder whether I did the right thing to install my propane stove this year. I'm hoping that I save a little on heating (cutting back on furnace oil). I'll know in a month if I've saved some money. But in the meantime, the house is warmer. so that's a benefit. I would have gone with a wood stove but I didn't want to have to put up a chimney. I also didn't want to be slugging wood, 20 years from now when I'm… 20 years older!. 
I got our first bill for propane that came in the tank when they installed it: .699 cents per litre. The first fill-up (the following week) was at .839 cents/litre and my furnace oil was .89cents per litre, that same week. But, we have to stay warm. How warm is the question. I'm cutting back on the overnight temperature - again. As long as the pipes don't freeze, we're ok . (Ok. I won't be going that cold… my fingers have to be able to type!)


----------



## dalec

MsDebbieP, Please keep those pinkies warm, so you can do your stuff on LJ.

Dalec


----------



## MsDebbieP

I'll do my best…. brrrrrr . ((blowing on fingers))


----------



## Ageingwood

My shop is tiny compared to most I have seen posted here. I started with a kero heater for a few years,
then one fall I started haveing all kinds of breathing probs. In and out Of VA to many times. Finally a Doc
asked about what I did and what I used to heat, Bingo ! He told me to get rid of Kero heater or give up the shop . Didn`t take long to make a dissension . Now I have a small propane heater with thermostat that does the job just fine and no stink !!


----------



## BigTim

As I write this it's a "balmy" -1 outside, so I really need heat in my shop! My solution was a donated hot water boiler that I mounted in the attic of my garage shop. It's an old brick garage that needed a new roof & floor so when the re-construction was going on I added 12' to the back of the garage to house all the homeowner "stuff" and a second floor for storage. The boiler was positioned directly over the brick wall that now seperates the two parts of the building. Something like 2-300' of heat pipe tubing is embeded in the new concrete floor. It's a terriffic way to heat a wood shop. With 2" of foam on the walls & 12" of fiberglass in the ceiling it doesn't run too much $ to keep me working all yaer.


----------



## rikkor

Thank goodness my shop is in the basement. It was fourteen below zero this morning.


----------



## dalec

Glad I live where I do. You LJs living in the plains, midwest and northeast stay warm.

Dalec


----------



## bobdurnell

This is for David, Brad_Nailor, There is a very safe heater that uses a quartz lamp and a fan and its supposed to heat 1000 sq ft. It's called Eden-pure. I bought one and tried it out in the house but not in the shop. It useses a 110v 15amp circuit.


----------



## jeffthewoodwacker

You could try a corn fueled furnace. These are fueled by shelled field corn and are ventless. Another suggestion is an external wood furnace. You can set one of these up on a pad outside your workshop and run ductwork for the heat.


----------



## NedB

I just searched on here for 'solar heat' and was surprised to see this was one of the few returns. I'm on a really tight budget at the moment ,and am considering augmenting my kerosene heater with some solar heat using one of the mother earth solar boxes. One thing I do have an ample supply of however is black 4" hose, I think I might just and whip up a solar heater using that as my 'solar' portion. hmmm.


----------



## woodplay

I've got pretty small shop. About 11 by 13. I'm worried about combusting the dust in such a small space. 
I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner, but when I'm in my garage working on a car I turn my halogen work light on me. It's got a 500 watt bulb that warms up anything it lights up. I think I'll get a couple for my shop.


----------



## 8iowa

This is a Reznor 35,000 BTU propane heater. It brings fresh air in from the outside and then vents to the outside again. Thus it does not create a moisture problem in the shop. It has a separated combustion chamber. There is no exposed flame. A 250 gallon tank is just outside the back wall of the shop.

My "Workshop in the Woods" is 46 degrees North. Even though the 24' x 28' shop is well insulated, without heat, the inside temperature falls down into the 40's during the late fall and early spring. When I turn on the heat, the interior comes up into the high 60's within 15 minutes.


----------



## ZiggyZ

Hey there,

As I begin to get equipment into my shop, I am finding myself in there more and more. I too am looking at heating options. Maybe someone can shed some light on my specific situation:

-I have a 10' x 20' garage. Wood exterior and plywood interior. Three 20 AMP 120V circuits. Insulation in the exposed rafter ceiling. 
-I am open to propane or electric heat. I was looking at a Procom 10,000 BTU heater with thermostat but, after calling them in regards to elevation, (I'm at 6,300 ft ASL) they stated they only warranty their units to 4,500 ft. Has anyone used these units at elevation with negative or positive results?
-I only intend to heat the shop while I am in it. Is there any concern with causing machinery, especially cast iron, to become brittle after repeated temperature changes from 10-20 deg. F to 65-70 deg. F?

Any insight would be much appreciated. I've already learned a bunch from these forums thus far so, thank you!

-Noah


----------



## Grandpa

Have any of you thought about a waste oil heater? They burn old oil that places (in my area it is free or they have to pay to have it taken away) give away. It uses old motor oil from cars and trucks. These are not cheap but they operate cheap. I have a friend in NE Oklahoma that uses one in a boat repair shop in the winter. After the initial cost he heats for the cost of fuel to pick up the old oil. Check local regulations in your area and think about one of these.


----------



## dczward

I use an electric heater. My shop is a 22×22 detached garage. This summer, I insulated it, and then installed a window 12,000 BTU combo ac/heater. AC worked great in the summer heat. As it is just now getting cold, I am finally able to test the heater part, and it works great too. The shop goes from 40 to 64 in about 30 minutes. I'm very pleased. I had thought about going wood, but I'd rather use the room for more tools.


----------

