# First Hand plane - New, not a used one...



## TheWoodFish (Sep 9, 2014)

Hey guys! Merry Christmas!

I want to buy my first hand plane. Actually I want two. A NO.4 plane and a block plane. I understood that those are the most common. Still, I find it very difficult to choose one. searching Amazon, there are so many brands and kinds.

Can anyone help me choose one?


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/bench-planes/no.-4-smooth-plane?node=4065









https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/block-planes/skew-block-plane-left?node=4072









I'd choose these ones^


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## Lsmart (Jan 1, 2012)

Bevel Up Smoother
http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=51870&cat=1,41182,52515
Custom Smoother
http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=72531&cat=1,41182,72530
I have this block and I love it.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=47881&cat=1,41182,48942

I don't know the Lie Nielsen but I'm sure it's very good also.


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## TheWoodFish (Sep 9, 2014)

Sorry, I should have said earlier that my budget is around $100-$150. 
Will this do the trick?
http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-12-136-Smoothing-Bench-Plane/dp/B002B56CUO/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1419553078&sr=8-4&keywords=hand+plane

Or is this just a smoothing plane? (means not a jack plane?)


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## TheWoodFish (Sep 9, 2014)

how about Grizzly's planes?
http://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-H7566-14-Inch-Smoothing-Plane/dp/B000E326ZK/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1419553488&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=grizzly+hand+plane


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

You should be able to get into some vintage refurbished stanleys with that price range. You couldnt get into LN or veritas and i only think youd be frustrating yourself with grizzly, groz, buck bros and the like. More than likely theyd all need a bit of work to perform really well. Once you get a fair idea of what a well tuned plane is you can set out and refurbish others or save up for the pricy planes that wont need any work out of the box.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/52716

Fellow LJer DonW has some for sale and is one of the good guys.

Oops my bad.


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## TheWoodFish (Sep 9, 2014)

As the post header state, I'm looking for a new one. I've searched throughout this forum and everyone says to buy a used one… I wonder why. Aren't there some decent brand new hand planes on the market? it's not a rocket science…

What is so bad about the brand new stanley or grizzly planes?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

There certainly are decent new planes on the market, just not in your price range. If you want a new plane that works well without a lot of tuning, you'll spend twice your budget. It you buy one in your price range you'll need to tune it. What the folks here are telling you, if your going to spend that much time tuning, you might as well buy a nice vintage plane and save a bunch of money.

It is your money though.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Out of flat soles, poor mating between the frog and bed, dull irons … Theres a littany of items that make newer, cheaper planes a frustrating experience. My first was a Groz jack and i spent more time, effort and sandpaper on it than my next 4 vintage planes combined. The machining process just isnt up to par in comparison to the other, upper echelon planes.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Has anyone mention the Wood River planes?


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

> I've searched throughout this forum and everyone says to buy a used one… I wonder why. - TheWoodFish


It's not that everything was better back in the day, but in this case a fairly large number of craftsman depended on their planes every day and that meant they knew what good quality was and paid for it. High quality vintage planes were quite expensive when originally sold. The good news is lots of them have survived and as long as you find one that isn't pitted with rust, it's still higher quality than anything of it's current price range. As said above it's not until you get to quite a bit higher budgets that tools are available at a similar quality to good vintage planes.


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## RPhillips (May 16, 2013)

If you must go new, I would suggest a Wood River (as and Bandito pointed out) as it would fit into your price range. Haven't heard a lot of good feed back on the new Stanley planes, but the old ones are great.


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

> Has anyone mention the Wood River planes?
> 
> - bandit571


They're still a few times more expensive than a vintage plane and over the OP's budget. 
While I think the guy in China has every right to eat too, the treatment of workers there is really bad and the Woodriver planes were straight cast copies of Lie-Nielsen planes, stealing all of their improvements. Everyone can make their own decisions, but after reading up on the Woodriver planes it seems clear the ethics of the people making and selling them are suspect. They are apparently decent quality though.


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

> As the post header state, I m looking for a new one. I ve searched throughout this forum and everyone says to buy a used one… I wonder why. Aren t there some decent brand new hand planes on the market? it s not a rocket science…
> 
> What is so bad about the brand new stanley or grizzly planes?
> 
> - TheWoodFish


For the first point. Labor, material and machinery costs are much higher in relation to income than when planes were being produced by the thousands instead of by the hundreds. There are far more good quality vintage tools out there than there are people who know how to use them. That means a buyer's market for the common planes like the smoother and block you are looking for. It'll take a lot of years before the quantity of vintage tools is reduced enough to get prices up with similar quality new ones.

For the second point. Stanley and the Grizzly planes (which I believe are made by Anant) have to cut manufacturing costs in order to get the prices that low. See the above comment about labor vs. income. That means laborers aren't as skilled, castings aren't as precise, machining has looser tolerances and materials have to be cheaper. It all adds up to a tool that is of lower quality than a a vintage one that didn't have those handicaps at the time they were manufactured.

Your comment of, it's not rocket science also applies to the manufacturing of the vintage tools. Because of the relative simplicity, the manufacturing techniques of 100 years ago were more than capable of producing a quality tool. The advancements since then don't affect planes and similar tools as much as things like electronics or automobiles.

As a couple others have mentioned, the Woodriver planes are the lowest priced new ones that consistently get good reviews. They are still quite a bit more expensive than a good refurbished vintage tool.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

As was said, either buy vintage and tune them up, or buy a Lie-Nielsen or Veritas plane. I have all vintage planes so far, but I've looked at the newer Stanleys and I'm not impressed. Hoping to get a new LN or Veritas plane soon.


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## Tedstor (Mar 12, 2011)

I have one of the newer Stanley "Contractor Grade" Low Angle Block planes. It works fine once you sharpen the blade and get it set up. For $30, I can't complain. Its never failed to do what I needed it to do.

http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-12-960-Contractor-Grade-Angle/dp/B0000223QX/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1419564679&sr=8-4&keywords=block+plane

You can also look around for a barely used, vintage block plane like this Craftsman (see link). It was probably made for Sears by Stanley or Seargent and would be a good user for the price. Probably needs minimal tuning.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Craftsman-Adjustable-Block-Plane-Good-Cond-W-box-manual-/221642585196?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item339aed746c


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

You didn't state what you expect to use the planes for. A block and #4 may not be the place to start depending what you want to do.

I discuss choosing a 1st hand plane, somewhat in context of expected type of work, in my blog http://lumberjocks.com/OSU55/blog/39841. Other entries cover tuning. Absolutely nothing wrong with the Stanley 12-960 new block plane or the 12-904 #4 bench plane. There are plenty of any used/vintage Stanley Bailey #4's available, and the new or old will require about the same work to tune (many argue this, but my experience with both suggests otherwise). The vintage have the panache and patina of age and wooden instead of plastic knobs and totes, and can be had for less then the $47 for a new one. I would recommend Stanley vs Anant or Grizzly or Shop Fpx or Groz.

I have 2 block and 2 bench Stanley planes purchased new that are very good performers after being properly tuned up. Truly sharp blades are the #1 thing, and I cover how I get them in my blog as well. There is no need to spend more than $100 on a block and #4 bench plane to get started. You will spend more than that to set up a good sharpening/honing system, though. Don't fall prey to the idea that these types of planes need expensive aftermarket blades and chip breakers to work well. They just need properly tuned and sharpened OEM blades and chip breakers.

I highly recommend either going to a woodworking show, or try to find someone within a few hours that knows their way around planes to experience how a well performing plane looks and feels.

You will continue to use those 1st hand planes after you fall deep down this slippery slope and have 40 or 50 of these stupid things, because you will find situations that they don't handle, but that's a basic design limitation and the high dollar planes, while better, don't solve all of them. That's why there are different designs available, but that's for another time.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

You can shorten your learning curve by visiting the

Handplanes of your dreams thread:

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/26023

How about putting a project in your profile with a Hock plane kit?
It fits your budget and you'll have a blast. 









http://www.hocktools.com/Kits2.htm


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## redmosquito1 (Jan 5, 2014)

I have the Lie-Nielsen low angle block and the thing is amazing. I really like their stuff but man it isn't cheap, but I can see why it isn't cheap as it is perfect out of the box. I got their router plane for Xmas and love it and picked up their large shoulder plane mint for $160 off craigslist and it is by far the best tool I have. I use that for so much now its awesome, and I stole it since the dude was liquidating his small shop since his wife thought it was to loud.

I bought the WoodRiver #4 last year and while it will take sweet shavings I can never get it to maintain the blade set like I want. It doesn't have the same feel of quality as the Lie-Nielsen block plane and really my Stanley 4 and 4C I have feel better to me. I just like the weight of the WoodRiver better.

I plan to sell my WoodRiver on fleabay and some saws I'm working on to fund a bronze Lie-Nielsen #4 soon.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

I have a bunch of Stanley's. #6, 2-#5s, #3, 110 block, 220 block (I think), and a 60 1/2. And a #3 Dunlap.

The 60 1/2 was the most expensive at 30-35$. Probably spent under 130$ easy. I thought cleaning them up, learning about tuning and repairing them was half the fun.


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## Johnnn (Sep 21, 2012)

Get the Lie-Nielsen 60-1/2 low angle block plane. Looks like it went up a bit since I bought mine, but at $165 it's not too far off your budget point. It's a fine tool, you'll never outgrow it, and it's one you'll use on every project.

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/block-planes/adjustable-mouth-block-planes-?node=4072

There are plenty of things it won't do, and a quality jack plane would be my next suggestion. I just don't have any experience with new, and quality, and under $150… I own and would definitely recommend the Veritas bevel-up jack, but it blows your budget by a wide margin.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

This is most of my "set" of go to planes









I bought a few, sold a few until I had the ones that suit me best. There is a Low Angle Block Plane, but I keep it in it's own Millers Falls box, stashed in a tool chest. Millers Falls #1455 was about the most expensive block plane I [email protected] $25…..

Rehab MIGHT take a day to do, IF I am slow that day. Usually they are ready to WORK in about an hour, maybe two.

Of course, some just can't stand the "lost time" it takes to make one of them "olde" planes work. Maybe when they have to spend the "lost time" sharpening the "new" planes back up, maybe then they will understand. I don't think L-N or LV have "loaner services" to give them a spare plane while the plane is being sharpened back up for them…More Lost Time..SHEEESH!

You can blow the budget on some New-in Box thingy. But, a $165 BLOCK PLANE??? Kind of hard to do a whole job with a small plane. Block plane Jointer? Block plane as a Jack? Ah….NOT!


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## Buckethead (Apr 14, 2013)

What chrisstef said. Buy refurbished used planes. You could probably get three or four superior planes for the price of the new block and smoothing planes that are not of equal quality compared to earlier models.

First stop: DonW time tested tools.


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## RichardHillius (Oct 19, 2013)

There is nothing wrong with the Wood River planes I own (block plane and #4) but I do tend now a days to go with either Veritias or Lie-Nielsen because the fit and finish is so much better. However the Wood River's especially on sale are a good deal. The low angle block plane is nice although I find it a bit big for my tastes compared to a antique Stanley 60 1/2 which is my goto block plane and never very far from my hand. The #4 Wood River is a lot heavier and beefier than the antique Stnaley's which depending on what you are doing may or may not be a good thing but functionally it's a good plane for the price. The weight turns me off so I tend to use my Stanley #4 and #3 more than it which are much lighter planes and work better for me.

Personally if it were me given that budget, knowing what I know now and what I tend to use hand planes for I would buy a old Stanley 60 1/2 block plane and a new Wood River low angle jack with a 2nd iron. I own the Lie-Nielsen version and I can't recommend it highly enough but I have heard good rings about the Wood River to and the one I played with in the store seemed well built. You can do almost everything with the low angle jack you can do with the #4 plus more. If I could only have one bench plane that would be it.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I think a refurbished plane from someone who does a good job at getting it ready to use.

If it were me I would start with a low angle block plane as they are among the most useful.

Also, do not forget some sharpening equipment. The scary sharp with a glass plate and papers is the lowest cost way to go. Keeping the plane sharp is a key having it work well.


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## TheWoodFish (Sep 9, 2014)

This thread is fantastic. Thank you guys so much for all the awesome advices.

Special thanks to OSU55. You really answered the question. In simple words, it's so easy and affordable to get a used stanley Bailey #4 off ebay, than buying a new one. Plus, that one would likely to be easier to fine tune since someone else has done it already.

I went ahead and ordered one on ebay, and got it yesterday. $50 + $12 shipping. I'm really happy with it. 
The sole was dead flat, a bit rust on the sides but overall very easy to make it perfectly tuned.

Can anyone direct me to a good sharpening thread? I bought a japanese stone with 1000/6000 grid. I think I need to get a grinding wheel or something… What do you use to sharpen your hand plane?

So once again, thank you again for all the advices and Happy new year!


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## j1212t (Dec 7, 2013)

Hey Woodfish, sharpening is one of those topics that all of us will never agree on, but there are some awesome topics on it.
Personally, I go with a DMT stone Coarse/fine and a 3000/8000 waterstone and I finish with a strop.

Whatever mediums you use to get the first edge, most important thing, without a question is the strop, that is what gives you scary sharpness.

Anyhow, i would refer you to my main guys on sharpening:
first and foremost Mr Big Red has done a comprehensive blog:
http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/34842
Then if you google "Paul Sellers sharpening" you'll get a lot of info, like this article here:
https://paulsellers.com/2014/01/questions-answered-sharpening-enough-much/
And one of my favourites as well, mr Tom Fidgen:
http://www.theunpluggedwoodshop.com/category/sharpening-2

This should give you all that you need to start with. Personally, unless you do a lot of restorations where you need to grind new bevels often, I wouldn't get a grinding wheel. With refurbished planes or new planes a coarse diamond stone will do all that you need.


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## Matt59 (Mar 31, 2013)

I second Jake's advice on a grinding wheel. I'd debated buying one for a year for the sake of cambering some plane irons, but finally decided to take the time to do the job with some trusty files I already had.

A coarse diamond plate or sand paper will remove a good bit of material if you ever have to regrind the bevel on your iron. They are also safer than a grinding wheel, by which I mean it's easier to regulate the removal of material and keep from removing too much or messing up your iron. Medium and fine diamond plates will hone the iron even further and a strop will put the finishing touch on.


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## blackcherry (Dec 7, 2007)

Wow, such great advice from most of the above. As for my two cent I bought a new LN no.4 back when I was in your shoes. Then I bought a Veritas block plane to make a long story short the block plane has been on my bench and is the most use plane of my collection. The LN no 4. get used on special occasions only, now with over 15 refurbish no. 4 Stanley they are my fav's of choice ease of setup and sharpening. Plus I get a really big kick out of holding on to a tool that older than me and still performs as well as anything build today at a fraction of the cost. A new LN will set you back 400 plus with that much money invested you could have easily have 10 refurbished Stanley with sharping equipment at your whim sharpen and ready to fly into rotation. Trust me these old war horses can sing sweet shaving melodies as well if not better at a fraction of the cost. Enjoy your choice just my two cents….BC


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## CL810 (Mar 21, 2010)

Fish, this book, Handplane Essentials, will be a great resource.


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