# Sanding ash wood - please advice



## Skiedra (Feb 16, 2012)

Hello, fellow lumberjocks,

Please advice a novice.

I am experimenting at making cutting boards from ash wood.

I rough sand using 40 grit sandpaper and then 180 grit paper using orbital sander.

There is a problem: after sanding wood does not seem completely finished. It is very smooth to touch and stroke, yet I can see tiny gaps left in the board. Fiber tear-out??

Once I rub in olive oil, it looks and feels OK. Yet after a week of using the cutting board, it became rough to touch like some 80 grit sand paper. It looks to me as if some fibers "stood up"


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

I think your problem is going from 40 to 180 if I understand correctly. 40 is too coarse to start with (try 80) then 100/120/150/180 and maybe even 220.


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## Skiedra (Feb 16, 2012)

Howie, thanks for answering.

The boards are cut with a lumbermill bandsaw and has stripes left. It takes a lot of sanding with 80-100 to make it smooth.


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## ondrej77 (Jun 7, 2013)

trick i learned from my father is to start with 80 grit and after you are done take wet rag and wipe your board, then sand 100 and wet rag again, 150, 220, 320, 400 and wipe it with that wet rag between, after that mineral oil and wet 600 paper , wipe it down and oil it and you are done  works for me so i hope it will for you too


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## LeeBarker (Aug 6, 2010)

Not skipping grits is a very good rule of thumb, as noted. Each grit removes the sanding scratches of the one before, in a controlled way. You'll use less paper using this system.

FWIW, olive oil will go rancid. Superior choice, also as noted, is mineral oil, available in the laxative section at your larger grocery stores.

Warm it, but not in the microwave, for better penetration.

Kindly,

Lee


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## Skiedra (Feb 16, 2012)

Some great advice here, thank you. ondrej77, do you sand them again while they are still wet or do you wait for the boards to dry??


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## ondrej77 (Jun 7, 2013)

Just wait until board looks dry and then start with higher grit, only 600 i sand with mineral oil


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

It'd save a lot of sanding if you could hit the boards with a jointer, planer, or even a handplane to remove the bandsaw marks prior to sanding.


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## Skiedra (Feb 16, 2012)

knotscott, I do have a planer, yet it sometimes leave grooves at the end of the boards. Too little pressure when feeding the board?


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

I have never worked with Ash.
But know a few things about it from owning Fender electric guitars.
Fender used Ash on very early guitars, and guitars with see through finish such as what was called the Mary Kaye Stratocaster, with see through blonde finish.
Fender used a clear fill coat called Fullerplast, before the final nitro finish, to help solve the problem you are having with micro voids.
Sanding alone will probably not work, as the more you sand just exposes more voids.
After time, even with thickly laid finish, the grain raises, and can be seen looking across the surface at an angle.
I think Ash would not make a good cutting board, better for guitars.

For a good view of such a guitar, check out youtube vids of Gene Vincent and his guitar player"Wild Willy"


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## Skiedra (Feb 16, 2012)

unbob, in my country I can get my hands on:

oak - insanely expensive
ash - most of the cutting boards here are made from ash
birch - too soft?
maple - yet is is pretty rare 
alder - dunno if anyone makes cutting boards using alder…
pine -  

The rest (cherry, walnut, etc.) is pretty much out of reach in estern/central Europe.


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## Stefflus (Jun 2, 2013)

Skiedra:
I'm guessing these are supposed to be flat, so a plane is the way to go. Now what are these grooves you are getting on the planer?
-Google "planer snipe". -is this it? If so, the outfeed side of the plane is set too low.
-Are the grooves protruding and running along the direction of feed? If so, your blades are chipped. No biggie, just plane these grooves down with a handplane, or sand them down.

Up here in Northern Europe, Birch and Pine cutting boards are common, but then again we have a very practically oriented tradition, so utilities are used until they are worn, then just replaced. And Pine does wear fast. In the modern Norwegian kitchen however, Oak and Bamboo cutting boards are gaining popularity.


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## Skiedra (Feb 16, 2012)

Stefflus, I've some planer snipe at the ends, and some U shape grooves near the ends. Bet it's from lack of pressure and the board small jumping up and down while being pushed

No "grooves protruding and running along the direction" . I figured it out when I saw some and sharpened my blades with a sanding sponge.


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

Skiedra:
" Yet after a week of using the cutting board, it became rough to touch like some 80 grit sand paper. It looks to me as if some fibers "stood up".

This is usually a good indication that you're overusing your sandpaper as well. Just like your tools, sandpaper needs to be kept 'sharp' as well.
Overused, or 'dull' sandpaper doesn't cut the wood fibers as it should, it folds them over and forces the fibers back into the pores of the wood.
In effect, dull sandpaper ends up polishing the wood surface vs. cutting the fibers and opening the grain.

A couple of good rules of thumb…
The grit your using should never feel smoother than the next higher grit
The raw wood your sanding should never have any type of 'sheen' in any part of the grain when held up to the light.

Ash is pretty hard on sandpaper…


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## Skiedra (Feb 16, 2012)

Lads, that is some great tips and advice! I am learning alot on this site. Thank you!


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

Perhaps, not sanding at all may help, instead, scraping after hand planing with a deadly sharp plane.
I found that works well on some woods I have been working like Maple burls.
My oberservations with Ash is only from the guitars, and problems folks have spoken of on the Fender Telecaster forum.
Not only does the grain raise up on the Guitars over time, the surface becomes a bit lumpy also.
I looked at a Telecaster guitar from 1968 I have. Where the finish has worn down to the wood, tiny holes or pours can be seen under magnafacation.
Probably the reason for the Fullerplast filler.


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## EPJartisan (Nov 4, 2009)

i suggest scraper cards.. cuts the fibers rather than breaking them… far faster than stepping down grits… and $15 will last for years and save you lots O'$$ on sandpaper. Also eposes the grain figure in boards faster, so you can enjoy the wood while you work. But I hate the dust from sanding… and I have allergies.. sigh. LOL


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Doesn't Ash have open pores like red oak?
In that case sanding or scraping will not solve all the problem.
There will need to be a filler applied to the wood to seal the pores.

I suspect the roughness after a couple weeks of use was just the result of water entering the pores and swelling the grain. You have to fill those pores, then any and all the above advice will be good.

A good filler is the dust from fine sanding mixed with 2lb. cut shellac, rubbed on with burlap. When dry, sand or scrape to final finish.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Sorry, double post.


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## EPJartisan (Nov 4, 2009)

I find Ash and Red Oak don't work the same, but as usual I am not the traditional woodworker. To me ash does not need pore fillers… Red Oak does. Ash has a lot more fiber cells than Red Oak, which is why it furs. Also one of the reasons I use pore filler on Red Oak is because the cells are so open finishes can be difficult… if anything, IMO… Ash works more like White Oak. But I agree that over time fibers are raised by exposure to moisture… especially with a cutting board… and filling the pores would be not good.


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

Just speculating again on the guitar observations.
Fender used two types of Ash, Southern swamp Ash "very light in weight", and Northern Ash "can be very heavy in weight".
Both types of Ash, appears to have more finish problems then, Alder that is used on most guitars they make.

Again just speculation, would an application of hot melted bees wax help with creating a sealed work surface?


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## Skiedra (Feb 16, 2012)

melted wax could definitely work.

EPJartisan, you got me very intrigued on scrappers. I have not used one myself as of yet. Would you be so kind and point me to a website (amazon or so) where I could get me some decent scrappers. Also do you have to look for any certain parameters when buying a scrapper? Also, do scrappers need sharpening?

I bet there are tutorials on youtube on how to use one.


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## EPJartisan (Nov 4, 2009)

Rocker, woodcraft and most woodworking supplier on-line offer scrapers. They come in different thicknesses and hardness for variety of uses, the trick is to sharpen them.. which after a some time will become second nature. I love scraper cards and use them for many tasks. I have about 10 now and I use them all constantly.


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

depending on the variety of ash, you may need to be patient as ash can be difficult to sand, and it may take some time.

I like the watco butcher block finish, cause I don't have to re-oil ever.


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## CMR (Jan 28, 2018)

Anyone have a recommendation for a novice milling/sanding a board of ash? I can't seem to get the band saw cut lines that run perpendicular to the grain out. I'm at 240 grit now, should i start over, go down a few grits?
Thanks.


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## alanealane (Oct 1, 2007)

The suggestions to try a card scraper and use progressive grits of sandpaper are excellent. Also the idea to use a wet rag to "raise the grain" and then knock the fibers down with the next higher grit should work well. *Unless you use an oil that will harden, the grain will continue to raise with use.* Olive oil to my knowledge will not harden and prevent the fibers from raising. I like the General Finishes product called Salad Bowl Finish. It is food safe once cured and seals in the wood fibers. It may require a new coat on occasion but not once a week.



> Anyone have a recommendation for a novice milling/sanding a board of ash? I can t seem to get the band saw cut lines that run perpendicular to the grain out. I m at 240 grit now, should i start over, go down a few grits?
> Thanks.
> 
> - CMR


You will need to remove enough wood to get rid of the grooves left by the bandsaw blade. This may be anywhere from 1/64" up to 1/16" depending on the blade that was used. Going back to very coarse grit sandpaper will speed up the material removal, but I would highly recommend using a handplane or an electric belt sander. A small block plane is relatively inexpensive and can do a lot to remove the saw marks. If you want to invest in a benchtop power planer, that will help you greatly, but will not remove any cup or twist in your board unless you make a sled to use in removing the high spots.


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## Carloz (Oct 12, 2016)

> trick i learned from my father is to start with 80 grit and after you are done take wet rag and wipe your board, then sand 100 and wet rag again, 150, 220, 320, 400 and wipe it with that wet rag between, after that mineral oil and wet 600 paper , wipe it down and oil it and you are done  works for me so i hope it will for you too
> 
> - ondrej77


Why would you want to sand wood to 600 grit ?


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