# Maybe I got a bad one, but I'm getting a Grex. This P-C is a loser



## lew

I have this pin nailer, too. I have to agree about the lack of the soft nose. However, mine sinks the pins well below the surface. Maybe you did get a bad one. Have you contacted PC about it?


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## JohnGray

Contact PC yet?


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## Emeralds

I must say this is surprising to me. Although I don't yet own one, I've done all the preliminary research common to my MO in anticipation of purchasing a unit soon. I had come to the conclusion that this unit was the best overall value by a country mile. So lopsided are the reviews of this unit that I almost abandoned protocol and purchased it prior to any actual project demand, something I almost NEVER do.

Two things I will mention to you that I remember from reading about them.

First I take it that it's not lack of a pressurized trigger commonly called a "soft nose" that's bothering you rather it's PC's failure to provide this quarter of a penny piece of rubber (a guard boot) for the business end of this machine. I agree, that such a glaring omission was not only shortsighted but just plain dumb however there is some good news is that apparently several guys report that they are using replacement boots from other manufacturers (one of those being CM sold nationwide by Harbor Freight).

The other point that was important IMO was that a couple of folks had reported jams and poor performance only to find out that they were loading the unit improperly. Apparently the lack of a head makes the pin gang clip easy to load backside up which causes these issues. Make certain that you are loading the clips correctly, with the pin gangs facing the right direction and see if in fact that doesn't solve your problem.


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## pitchnsplinters

Can't go wrong with the Grex … but a tad pricey.


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## craftsman on the lake

I've got their framing nailer, finish nailer, and brad nailer. Each one has worked flawlessly for a few years. And I don't oil them like I should either. Often and on the job I use a small craftsman compressor that keeps up nicely. Between 80 and 100 lbs of pressure the nails are always below the surface. No nail sets necessary.


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## roman

I'm on #2

a long long time ago, they made a nailer that kept nailing, year after year after year.

but that was a long time ago

and it was just a story,

a long time ago


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## dennis

Good luck on that I had the same problem with the Grex. My PC actually sets the pins…go figure. Just a crap shoot with any brand these days. One out of five are garbage…Dewalt, PC, Grex, Ridgid all are hittin right at 20% crap.


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## Julian

I ahve one that I have used just about every day for the last two years and it's working fine. You must have a bad one. That's the risk we take when dealing with inexpensive Chinese made tools.


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## RalphB

Amazingly quick response from you all! While I guess it would be easy to put the "nails" in upside down I am a careful, read the manual, kind of guy - and it's a bit difficult to ignore the giant arrows printed on the sides of the nail strips. I would have thought this was just me or a one off problem but I have read a number of negative reviews that mirror mine on sites such as Amazon - so I concluded it's the product. That's why I posted a review here to warn fellow woodworkers that there is a problem.

BTW - the Woodcraft store where I bought it is confronting the P-C rep this week with my problem.

For me, I'm looking forward to spending the extra $100 for Grex and (hopefully) getting a pinner that works correctly. If I can't get my money back on the P-C, I'll eBay it or donate it to the Habitat for Humanity store.


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## Brad_Nailor

A way around the denting problem is to put some painters tape where you are going to shoot the pin. I am going to get the Grex or the Nikle. The Nikle was rated #1 by FWW for it's ability to shoot not only 23GA pins but slight head brads as well. I also own several PC guns (brad, finish, narrow crown stapler, upholstery stapler, round head framer) and have never had any problems with them.


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## SCOTSMAN

most nailers can be adjusted!! So it sounds likesomething's wrong, as I have quite a few nailers and they all are fine .Are you sure your getting enough pressure to the gun check the pressure on your air outlet valve and try increasing it,as it sounds like my compressor goes when I forget to switch it on and just use what's in the tank.Alistair


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## boboswin

Did you oil It?

Bob


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## RalphB

YES TO ALL OF THE QUESTIONS ABOUT FOLLOWING THE DIRECTIONS! I oil every use, I keep the air pressure up, I use quality pins (P-C and Grex only), I hold the pinner firmly against the material, etc. This machine has problems, many others elsewhere have reported identical behaviour. I will post info after hearing from the P-C rep…...

Thanks for the tip on the tape, I'll have to try it.


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## Emeralds

Ralph:

Although I know how frustrating it can be to run into "a lemon", I think it's important to be fair when you assess these things. You said " I have read a number of negative reviews that mirror mine on sites such as Amazon " but what I see on Amazon is 67 reviews, only nine of which are three stars or less with the overwhelming (remember I used that exact word) majority (45) giving the unit a 5 star rating.

I'm not suggesting that you are in any way at fault. I offered only suggestions that I had read from others not having ANY experience with this unit whatsoever. What I AM SAYING is that it is most likely to be a problem with the individual unit as demonstrated by the vastly lopsided number of delighted owners that bothered to post.

Again, just an observation; IMO for these reviews to be of real value, they need to be as objective as possible. We've all had "bad" experiences and that's really not the issue. What I wish to avoid by reading reviews is BAD products.

Amazon - PC PIN100 page


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## RalphB

If I have a defective product I assume "bad luck" and try to get it fixed or replaced. If I see that others have the same problem I feel that's potentially a bad product or design. I guess we disagree. I think products that ship with a fair number of defective units are bad products. I do not accept the premise that decent design, but poor quality, is a good product. 9 negative reviews out of 67 is a horrible record in my book. (And there are sites other than Amazon) If you think 45 out of 67 is acceptable quality/customer satisfaction - that's your decision. (I don't call that "overwhelming". ) When I look at reviews on sites like Amazon or Buy.com I look at the distribution of ratings, not just the overall number. So, if I see an inverted bell curve of mostly high or low (love-hate) ratings I am concerned. Obviously the words matter, (just read some of the negative reviews on the Apple App store - you'll scratch your head), to me a degree of consistency in negative reviews is an indicator - not the only point to consider, but one not to be ignored.

What got my attention was that a number of reviewers had exactly the same problems I have - I'd call that a trend. In addition, having 2 other P-C nailers that I am satisfied with made me especially disappointed at a brand that I had come to trust.

In contrast to the P-C, try to find credible, negative reviews of the Grex products. Although I'm sure some exist, I haven't seen them. Most individual and publication reviewers I've seen rave about these products.

Power tools don't have a warranty service network like cars where one can get them fixed quickly with a convenient trip to the neighborhood dealer. Exercising tool warranties is often slow, frustrating and many times costs you money for shipping. I personally do not want to use the warranty with a brand new product.

My only goal is to try and warn fellow woodworkers to be cautious and watchful about this product. I endeavor to be truthful. The title of the review said "Maybe I got a bad one…"


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## boboswin

Just curious. Would these products be in the same pricing range of each other?
That can be a determining factor "sometimes"

I own neither brand but am interested in following this review to it's logical conclusion.

Bob


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## RalphB

Hi, Bob #2. I bought the P-C PIN100 on sale for around $100. The usual price is about $129 I believe. There is a grex for about $150 that has similar capabilities to the PIN100. But I have ordered the P635 which is around $200. But it does have better features than the PIN100, so it's a bit of an Apples to Oranges comparison. I believe the key differences are: auto lockout when the pins run out (no dry holes) and the soft nose (which apparently others feel is easy to emulate with plastic or tape) and longer pin capability (1 3/8")

I agree that price is a consideration for most of us. But, I won't use a machine that malfunctions (in my case) to save $50-$100. It's too frustrating for me. I threw away my Harbor Freight 18 gauge nailer and bought a P-C, for example. It was an extra $100 well spent in results and satisifaction level.

As far as the PIN100: I think that if mine had worked reliably - I'd be singing its praises. The size, weight and balance are good I think. The machine automatically adjusts to whatever length pins you load. I don't mind the double trigger thing - all the 23 gauge pinners have some form of this to keep the nose size small. The PIN100 fits nicely into tight spots, too. It does have a pin length retriction of 1" max, but many times that's enough. (I will enjoy the 1 3/8 max on the Grex though) And the case has space to store some pins, which apparently the Grex case does not. So, if I didn't see evidence of what I believe to be a product quality problem, I would have stayed with it.


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## boboswin

That puts a bit more light on the situation. You should expect more for more $ .
There remains that lingering question that perhaps the tool you purchased was "branded" and made offshore by the lowest bidder.
This is becoming so prevalent today that it is difficult to purchase by simply trusting a familiar brand.
My experience has been that quality control is not a strong suit with offshore products so rather than have the odd dud slip through and entire shipment can be exported with the identical flaw.
Some brand name companies just add the "defective costs" into the selling price and let the consumer become the test monkey.

I am personally trying to wean myself off the cheapest products and put more into the purchase.
So far so good.

Bob


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## RalphB

Perhaps I am wrong in my view of the position of P-C in the market. I have never considerd P-C high-end or low end. They're not Lamello or Grex, but neither are they Harbor Freight. If I had the pinner (it's in the hands of the Woodcraft store I bought it at) I'd look for some designation of the country of manufacture and let you know.

BTW, I do have a Harbor Freight biscuit joiner that works just fine. Yes, it has a plastic fence that can flex if you're not careful; yes it sounds like it's grinding itself to bits; but is has sufficed for paint grade and shop projects. I'm saving up for a Lamello, though - after reading the multiple reviews of problems with plastic pivots on the fence of $225+ P-C. So in this case the cheapest tool has given me a lot of value (while it lasts) and I won't feel cheated when it dies some day, if it does. If I paid $225 or so and got a fence that didn't work well, I'd be very displeased.


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## TheSerpenteer

I received the same nailer for Christmas and have the same problem. Pin depth is not adjustable, but the manual says to increase pressure to sink the pin farther, I believe it says to experiment with each species, or something along that line. I have never been able to have the pin go in deeper than "flush" regardless of the pressure. It makes sanding even worse than it needs to be.


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## RalphB

Serpenteer: That's the exact problem I have experienced. In my case, no amount of air pressure will resolve the issue. So, I've given up and will replace it.


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## kolwdwrkr

I have the pin nailer you are reviewing and I haven't had a problem. Don't buy a senco though, that's another story. Good luck on finding the right one.


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## Dusty56

Grex video

All of my present nailers and staplers are *Porter-Cable* and to date I haven't had any problems at all . Sorry to hear that you have.


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## mattg

I own one of these, and it works just fine. Sinks at least 3/32" below the surface. You may have a defect.


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## roman

the first one sold, sold 4 700 bucks and I bought one.

the second one sold 4 300 and my first still woked so I didnt buy the second one

by the time my first one died. the 10th one sold was a mere 99 bucks but I already put in the first one that sold 4 700 bucks 4 repair at a mere 89 bucks, by the time I got the micro nailer back a new one was only 79 bucks and the repair bill was 81 dollars….......................


> ?


Now I own three of them and only have 2 hands

and I started out with one @ 700


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## RalphB

bentlyj, I haven't taken it apart to see if I could diagnose the problem. If I am unsuccessful in returning it, I may try to take it apart and see if I can improve its operation.

Thanks to another LumberJocks member, Ryan Shervill, I was referred to a nice 23 gauge pinner review from Canada. I thought others might find it useful. Here's a link: http://www.mochasofa.com/Homepage/default/tool-test-pin-nailers-n263759p1.html

Now my only question is which Grex model to buy.


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## RalphB

A couple of things have come to my attention:

- it appears that the only Grex pinners that have the lockout feature are ones with a model number ending in "L", and they are extra charge (big surprise)

- there is a video on woodcraft's website that talks about the virtues of 23 gauge pinners. One thing mentioned is that the pins are coated and therefore hold better than one might expect for a small diameter, headless pin. http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=20153&productid=836278&mode=videos#tabs


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## Knuckles

I have a Grex and have no complaints.


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## woodplay

I just got this nailer and I love it. I do wish it came with a soft nose BUT come on! We're woodworkers. Known for our resourcefulness and ingenuity. It doesn't take much to create a soft nose on these. Use a small piece of felt and carefully glue it to the nose. The nails shoot right through it. It's like a zero clearance insert. Works perfect for me. Price on this tool was perfect too. and mine sinks the nails fine.


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## Dusty56

So , what was the verdict , Bro ? Are you a happy Grex owner or still with the PC brand ?


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## RalphB

Dusty, I took my P-C back to the Woodcraft store I bought it at and they let me trade up to a Grex. In hindsight, I would agree with those that say the soft nose is not a deal breaker, although I do appreciate the two that came standard with the Grex. Had my P-C actually sunk the pins well under the surface of the wood I probably would still be using it, with a makeshift soft nose installed. One other, consequential, difference I noted is that the Grex weighs a good deal more. It just feels like a better unit, solid and sturdy. This could help provide a better inertial base for the pins to be driven into the wood from, without undue hand pressure. But it might also be more tiring for someone with arthritis or some other such situation. Overall, I have not seen or heard a negative review of the Grex, but the P-C gets mixed reviews - some glowing, some like mine.

But then you should expect to get something for the extra $100, shouldn't you??

BTW, I see that Harbor Freight now offers a 23 guage pinner….......


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## woodplay

Was there a particular type of wood your nails weren't sinking into?? Would they sink into anything other than pine?


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## Dusty56

As long as you're happy with the end results from thr Grex unit is all that matters. Sometimes we have to spend more to get what we want / expect from a tool , and sometimes we shop at Harbor Frieght : )


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## Dustin

I've got the Grex, and woah, just as nice as I have dreamed. I was almost going to get this PC but I'm all about getting the best the first time so I don't waste my money when I need to replace it.


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