# Hand cut dovetails vs. dovetail jig. Which do you use and why?



## EricTy

I've seen the jigs and Rockler http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17367&utmsource=NL&utmmedium=email&utm_campaign=V4106 has theirs on sale for $100 with free shipping. I was just wondering how many folks use jigs vs. hand cutting dovetails.

I know there a mystique about hand cutting dovetails and the pride and joy of a tight fit. There's also the speed and perfection of jig cut dovetails.

Which do you prefer and why?


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## Loren

Just learn to cut them and you'll see that it's not that
hard to do adequately and to a certain sort of personality 
the working towards quiet perfection is fun.

The jig-cut joints also won't fool a discerning eye
so in terms of doing quality reproductions they are
generally not acceptable.


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## Mosquito

I do hand cut dovetails. My main reasoning is because I wanted to learn them. Instead of spending $100 on a jig for my router, I instead invested that money into a quality dovetail saw instead. Another part of the reason is that I'm currently doing a fair amount of my woodworking in my apartment's spare bedroom, so I'm forced to stick with hand tools


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## BTimmons

I asked my uncle (a full time woodworker) his opinion on that question. His contention is that the scope of the project determines whether to do it by hand or machine. If you're doing something small like a jewelry box, sure, do it by hand. But if you have a huge project that requires a dozen drawers or so, get the router jig and blast 'em out.

It makes sense to me. It's all about being adaptable. Being able to do both seems like the best option.


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## woodtools

From my perspective, it depends more on the project to determine the woodworking style, tools and approach. If I am building a period reproduction, I tend to use period tools and woodworking style.


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## jmos

I agree it depends. I have the Rockler jig, and it works fine. If I had a bunch of drawers to do, and it was not a "fine" project, I'd use it, but I mostly do hand cut. I enjoy doing them, I think they look better, and I get more satisfaction out of them. But, when you need a lot fast, a jig is nice.


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## handi

I own both the Rockler and PC dovetail jigs, and I even produced the demo video on Rockler's website for their jig.

I will set up a jig if I need to make a bunch of drawers, but for a drawer or two, I can have them hand cut inte time it takes to dig out the jig and set it up.

The first couple times you hand cut them they WILL take longer and may not be as neat, but with a bit of practice, you'll be making great joints in less time than it takes to discuss it.

I see no reason to choose one method over another (other than cost) having the ability to do either expands your capabilities.

Ralph


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## MonteCristo

I think there is a lot of hype around dovetails, handcut dovetails in particular, which modern adhesives have rendered much less important structurally than in days of old. Finger jointing, especially in splintery straight grained woods like Douglas Fir, is less problematic and for all intents and purposes equally good.

I have a Leigh jig which allows me to occasionally cut super dovetails without spending years getting good enough at it to come close by hand. Also, I would argue that the whole reproducton thing is also totally overblown. Look at all the other ways those guys cut corners compared to how it was done in days of old. Handcut dovetails are, in my opinion, as much about marketing as anything else.


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## bhog

I do them by hand.Its fun and its a skill building operation.Im sure there will be a day when I need to get a jig for it,but untill then I will do it by hand.


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## pintodeluxe

I use a jig Porter Cable jig. You can make the joints more interesting with a 14 degree router bit. 
If I am churning out a bedroom set, there is no way I am cutting the dovetails by hand.


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## NiteWalker

I use the porter cable 4212 jig.
If I tried to cut them by hand I may as well just hack the wood up on the table saw and throw it out.


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## Zinderin

Ok, I know this is going to be considered heresy, but I personally believe waaaay too much emphasis is put on dovetails. 99% of the time, a tongue and groove drawer joint or a finger joint is more than sufficient given today's adhesives.

Dovetails do have their purpose … unfortunately its typically to impress other woodworkers and fine furniture connoisseurs who have been convinced by woodworkers, a piece isn't "fine" unless it has dovetails.

With 90% of your customers, you whip that drawer open and start bragging about those dovetails …. they will just stare back at you with a blank stare … they don't understand, they don't care, and whats more … they aren't paying for it.

And I can't justify not using a jig for half-blinds.

So yeah, you can note my name and tag me a "hack" ... that's just my experience and my opinion.


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## OggieOglethorpe

*"Ok, I know this is going to be considered heresy, but I personally believe waaaay too much emphasis is put on dovetails. 99% of the time, a tongue and groove drawer joint or a finger joint is more than sufficient given today's adhesives."*

I agree. In fact, finger jointed plywood has been used for 50-60 years under the vinyl wrap on musical instrument amp cabinets. Many of which have seen years of being moved and dropped often, wide temperature and humidity swings, and extreme vibration. I've even built some incredibly strong plywood lateral file drawers that are simply glued and pocket screwed together. The screws are invisible in normal use, located on the back and hidden in front by an overlaid drawer front.

That said, I love dovetails when they fit the setting, and I cut them using hand and machines. Usually it's a combination of both.

It's all situation dependent. For example, I'll hand saw half blinds and fit with a chisel, but hog out waste with a freehand trim router. For a kitchen with solid wood drawer sides , I'll do them all with my Leigh D4R. For a sofa or computer table, I'll cut them by hand, as the jig is unable to make pins as skinny as I'd like.

I don't think dovetails are great in plywood. I know some people, as well as factories, do this, but I'd rather see a joint better suited to the material.


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## Richforever

I've done it both ways. I prefer hand cutting. It's more fun. It's faster and easier than setting up and testing the jig. It gets my mind around the joint and its purpose rather than the settings of a jig. It's a bonding experience with the wood and the project. I like the flexibility and the look. Plus it's quieter. It also increases hand/eye coordination and the ability to make fine corrections quickly and easily.


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## ducky911

I have an akeda jig If you look at my project pictures you can see two chest that i made one with the akeda and on hand cut.

which one do you like best?

Bob


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## Nick_R

I am currently going down this road. I bought a jig made by General from Home Depot for $30. It actually worked just the way they said… but It only worked on 1/2 stock, and after a few practice trys the limitations of a jig became clear to me. The Jocks told me to get a hand saw and cut away.. I did that….. sort of.

I started messing around with a scroll saw to cut the tails and box cut type. It makes it pretty quick and if you score the wood before you cut it, it makes a very nice edge. It was a sort of compromise for me since a nice handsaw is $145 at Woodcraft.. Just didn't want to spend the money/.

Just my opinion


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## TerryDowning

As I don't have a jig, or even a dovetail bit for my router (mostly because I'm cheap not that I don't want them).

The few dovetails I have done were by hand, and I really enjoyed doing them.


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## newwoodbutcher

Hand cut for small or bragging rights and machine for lots of joints. If you keep practicing hand cut starts looking better and going faster. It's a good skill to learn.


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## bobkas

I usually hand cut as I'm not intelligent enough to get the shop fox jig I have to work. One time I got it to work but it took over an hour. If I had cut them by hand it would have been about the same. Not saying I'm good at hand cutting them but they usually work.


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## EricTy

Great answers!

If I've gotten the gist of it all, hand cutting is good for quick work, small quantities, etc.

If I'm going to grind out many drawers, a jig will make short work of it all and may/probably will be a good investment.

There is the opinion that dovetails are a little more of a conversation piece coupled with pride of showing nice, good hand work. There are joints that are just as strong but have less character.

Any thoughts on which jigs work better than others?


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## ClintSearl

Neither, trusty screws and Titebond glue have rendered dovetails obsolete. Except when used as decoration, dovetails are a tired joinery affectation.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

By hand only, probably my favorite bench activity.


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## DamnYankee

Thanks for asking the question, I've learned a fair bit from the various answers. At this point I use jig. I would like to learn to do them by hand. As I've seen with other projcets, sometimes by hand is actually easier and quicker than with power tools.


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## rance

Kitchen cabinets = jig
Small box = hand cut


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## parkerdude

Yeah, I like to hand cut dovetails, makes me feel like I'm woodworking. No dust mask, hearing protection, just safety glasses while chiseling/chopping. 
I can listen to the radio, smell the wood.
Woodworking is my hobby, there rarely is much of a time crunch or deadline. If I did this for a living, I could see more power tools.
I haven't done a large project with many joints in solid wood. 
Most of my time has been consumed in the learning curve. Now I feel comfortable in making drawer sized dovetail corners in 10 to 15 minutes each. 
Any significant design changes in the dovetails can be implemented in just about the time it takes to think it up.


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## DrDirt

I am like rance - - -if I make a jewelry box, or I have unusual/thin stock - - i cut with a japanese saw.

If (like currently) I am doing a pair of 5 drawer dressers for tweens…...I am not cutting 10 drawers by hand for rabbeted half blind dovetails… which are much more tedious than through dovetails..

This guy is more patient than me….10 drawers 8 inches tall - - left and right sides…. meh!!


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## Texcaster

I do both, it's horses for courses with me.

This box sports hand cut laminate faux dovetails and mortise and tenon joinery.

Like another poster here just…........." keeping myself amused. "

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/99790


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## TheFridge

You are limitited in many ways with a jig.

I'd still use one if I had a crapload to bang out.


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## BurlyBob

I'm the learning stages with my Leigh dovetail jig. Like many noobs, I saw Norm use it and had to have one. I saved up, bought it and put it together back in the early 90's. It sat unused in my little shed till this past spring. I have found that it is quite unforgiving. Attention to detail and serious accuracy are a must using it. I'm seem to be getting the hand of it. It's going to take several more projects before I feel totally confident.


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## timbertailor

I use the Incra System because I need accuracy and repeatability when making joints. The sheer number of joints the Incra system supports and the flexibility to customize them makes it a great solution for those doing a lot of joinery. Especially drawers, boxes, etc.


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## shipwright

Off topic a bit perhaps but I'm interested in just which"modern glue" those who mention it think is stronger than hot hide glue. I'd also like to know if they have ever used "old fashioned" glue.
On topic, strictly personal preference.


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## TarHeelz

The real question if we're looking to start a good fight is, "Do you use dividers to space your dovetails, a ruler/square, or do you just eyeball it?"


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## EricTy

I have a jig but ultimately decided to do them all by hand. I guess I'm more of a purist. I figured doing them was the only way to get better at doing them. It took a while, but for Tar, I strictly eyeball it. If you want perfect dovetails, use a jig. If you want them to look irregular in size and spacing, eyeball them. To me it's how tight gaps are, not necessarily the exact shape or size.


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## bearkatwood

I have a router jig set-up to make the half moon and bears ears etc. dovetails and I have used it on a few projects like last years hobbit table remake, but for the most part I go with hand cut. Hand work is fun and rewarding, but there are times you want to plug in and get it over with.


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## 280305

As a hobbyist, I cut them by hand because I really enjoy it. If I were in the woodworking business, I might look at other options.

A very talented woodworker told be that you want to get to the point where dovetails lose their mystique and are just the way that you attach two boards perpendicularly.


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## CharlesA

I learned to hand cut them this year as a discipline, and I like doing it. I do think for a couple of drawers, it is faster to hand-cut them than to set up the jig I have. However, If I were churning out a lot, I think I'd go for a jig.

Oh . . . and dividers are a lot easier and faster than measuring.


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## SirIrb

I think the real question to ask is if this is for knocking out nice but fast boxes (like drawer boxes) for production or if you are doing hand work. If it is production the look no further than a nice PC jig. Buy 2 routers (1/4" so you arent hefting a heavy router all day) and make dust.

If its not production then choose your poison.


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## pmayer

I prefer to cut them by hand. It's nice to have something quiet to do in the shop. I had a PC 77240 and it was nice but I found that most of my dovetail projects were a single drawer, small box, etc., so it wasn't worth setting up the jig. Since I didn't use it much, I got rid of it to free up space in my shop.


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## msinc

I would like to resurrect this thread to ask…if someone wishes to learn the art/skill of hand cut dovetails, what is the best saw for this?


> ? Where can this saw be purchased


? Thanks in advance for any info!!


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## bandit571

I prefer them by hand. In fact there is a Dovetail jig sitting in the shop, collecting cobwebs from disuse..









So, IF one has the collar and bit for this jig, and lives nearby, stop in and pick it up. Freebie. Costs too much to ship it out.

Lots of new Dovetail saws out there, to fit just about any budget….


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## Manitario

I hate cutting dovetails by hand, it is tedious and I have less than perfect results but I really find the look of machine cut dovetails quite ugly so unless the dovetails are hidden eg. a cabinet with moulding, I hand cut. Also can't afford an $800 jig to have variable spacing of the pins and tails that would give more of a hand cut look to machine cut. 
I use a David Barron guide and a Japanese saw which has improved my accuracy.
http://www.davidbarronfurniture.co.uk/david_barron_tools.asp


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## CharlesA

As for saw, the top of the line western style are Bad Axe, Lie-Nielsen and Veritas. If you want a cheap beginner saw, try this one:: http://www.olsonsaw.net/shop/zona-razor-saws-miter-boxes/dovetail-saw-18tpi/


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## msinc

Thanks for all the replies so far!!! It is greatly appreciated. I will check out the links for certain. I intend to make some wooden display cases with glass fronts to hang on the wall. Since they will be visible on the display I thought the addition of nice dovetails would be a touch that is in keeping with the rather expensive items being displayed. 
It sounds like dovetails are one of those things that could be likened to checkering on a gun stock. Fine hand cut checkering is slow and tedious, but you can always tell the hand cut stuff from that which was machine cut. 
I was afraid it might be the other way around…seems like the router and guide would make for a perfect fit, whereas hand cut dovetails not properly executed will show. All that makes sense, but hand cut checkering, if not done right will also show as bad or worse than the machine cut stuff.
Thanks again for all the posts and if any one thinks of any additional info regard dovetails, hand or jig, please post.


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## mfhall

I'd like to throw in one more question here. I've been driving myself crazy for awhile now looking at dovetail jigs-PC, Leigh, Akeda-and I have been talking to someone online about buying an older Leigh D1258R-24 jig and upgrading it. Do these older Leigh dovetail jigs work well, especially if I buy the upgrade kit(s). Also, they don't seem to be set up that well for finger/box joints. Should I just do those on a table saw and forget about about it. I ask because the finger/box joint templates cost another $200. If I go new and buy the Leigh D4R Pro, you're looking at a total of $800 with the box joint kit and you get three bits. Buy the Whiteside 7-bit Leigh jig kit and you're looking at $900. So this gets pretty crazy pretty quick. I'm thinking about just saying to heck with it, buying a straight back saw and building a shop jig for box/finger joints. I don't have any plans for mass production of drawers for the time being, but I might get into that down the road.

Anyway, thanks for the string.


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## johnstoneb

Floyd
I have a PC dovetail jig it works well for dovetails. I use it when doing drawess etc and cut by hand when I feel like it.

I was unhappy with it's box joints. There is some clearance between the bushing in the router and the jig. It left the joint too loose. I find it easier, quicker and tighter to make a quick jig and do them on the table saw or router table.


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## ScottVerson

as a novice carpenter I use Porter-Cable 4216 Dovetail (Super) Gig, from article https://mechanicguides.com/best-dovetail-jigs/ because its advantages justify the price.


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