# How do I finish interior Cedar wall paneling yet keep the aroma?



## starmaykr

My wife has a rather extreme dislike of all pests (rodents,insects etc.). For this reason we have chosen to go 100% with cedar wood on both the exterior wood siding and the interior wood paneling in our new rustic cottage. Sealants will 'seal' out the aroma from the natural oil in the wood.
So my question is:

How do I protect the wood on the inside of the house without losing the aroma from the oil that repels the pests?
Does Cedar oil offer any protection from normal wear and tear and from things like cracking?


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## Loren

Paste wax I should think would not conceal the smell
much.

It's a myth that wood needs hydration or "feeding" like 
leather does to prevent cracking. If wood is
going to crack, it will crack.


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## joeyinsouthaustin

The cedar will help with some insects and such, regardless of whether you can smell it. It will not however repel them all in any way. So you choice is just aesthetic. If you like the smell, use the oil in a fragrance stick set up. My brother and sister in law live in an all cedar house built in the seventies. The interior was never treated, and looks, and smells just fine. I would be aware that those smells are not healthy for some people with allergies, and with breathing issues.


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## pintodeluxe

Try oiling aromatic cedar to see if the smell remains. You can even use cedar scented oil to enhance/renew the smell. 
I usually leave aromatic cedar unfinished. Use sample boards because aromatic cedar looks very different under a finish.

Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## Grandpa

No finish if you want to smell it. In a cedar chest, you can lightly sand the interior after a few years to renew the smell. You might also notice they only finish the exterior of a cedar chest. You will be living in a giant cedar chest.


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## Mahdeew

Cedar tend to attract spiders and other bugs that like moisture. I am not sure where you live-in; I think that will have a lot to do with bugs. Also, consider that cedar, over time can cause allergic reactions, mostly on skin and lungs. Bugs become a secondary issue considering the side effects of trying to live without them.


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## starmaykr

Thank you all for your input.

Yes,I am aware of the possible allergic and respiratory side effects the cedar oils vapors can have on some people. I also know cedar can be more brittle than other woods.

I do know that the stronger the smell the more it will repel the pests. No, it would not be practical to live in one giant aromatic cedar chest. I live in Mass and my personal experience has been that cedar has only a minimal effect on repelling spiders.

I will need more information on the effects of paste wax. This may be a sound solution to get some sort of protection from wear and tear yet keep the aromatic quality.

I am not sure I agree that wood does not need some sort of "hydration" over time. Everything needs maintenance,everything. I have found using Danish oil on wood when it gets dry has always worked wonders.

My original question still remains?
Will the cedar oil help to give the same sort of protection from wear and tear as some sort of sealant? Because I do have a certain aesthetic desire to see the wood grain more clearly than raw unfinished cedar,I keep gravitating back to using some sort of oil. I do not like the glossy look.

Does anyone know how I might fare if I used something like a half and half mix of Watco danish oil and cedar oil?

I know the Danish oil has a tiny amount of sealant so I figure the cedar oil would make up for what ever natural aroma I might lose?

Anyone with more experience want to chime in?


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## joeyinsouthaustin

If you want the cedar to retain a wet look or luster, linseed, or teak oil can help it retain that, but you say "I do not like the glossy look" so I am uncertain what to suggest for this contradiction. Indoors, without any treatment, the cedar will oxidize very slowly and look great. Like I said, I know this first hand, not just from my carpentry experience, but because my brother lives in and owns a house that is %100 cedar. This includes the kitchen cabinets. It has never been treated with anything and looks great. It is a matte look however. Cedar does not need "hydration" over time. It will balance itself and last a long time indoors.

To protect from 'wear and tear' you would need a durable top coat. Many clear coats can work well on indoor cedar furniture, but IMO will not work well on interior wall treatment if it is rough. If you are using cedar milled smooth, and dried properly before finishing there are options. You will however get a wetter shiny look, and it will be sealed, and no longer aromatic. If by 'wear and tear' you mean UV protection, you can get that in some clear top coats, or by using a stain. There are good stains that can be used, but they will color and also seal.

Specifically it is not recommended to use Danish Oil on aromatic cedar. The natural cedar oils will prevent it from ever curing.

In general, cedar oil is used to repel insects, and not to treat cedar. Teak or linseed oil is used to preserve a wetter look. Besides, your cedar will have in it the amount of cedar oil that is naturally there. If you truly want to refresh the smell, cedar oil can be used, but this would be after the wood has obviously oxidized and is turning grey. 10, 20 years. My brothers house still smells like cedar 45 years after it was built, and the wood has not dried out yet… that includes the dehumidifying effect of lots of running the AC here in Texas.

If you deem it absolutely necessary to oil or wax this wood, remember you will be doing it about every 2 to 4 years.

And finally, finishes need maintenance far more than wood. Wood will not dry out more than the ambient humidity surrounding it. I will suffer from dramatic, fast changes, but when balanced it will just do it's thing. Some woods do lose natural oils. Those can be replenished, but this is primarily a cosmetic thing. Cedar does lose some, but very slowly. That is exactly why it is used the way it is.


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## starmaykr

Joey,

Thank you,you have pretty much answered the question.

The Western Red Cedar panelling I am using,I had custom milled to a smooth finish to replicate the profile in this image. These panels are not considered "aromatic" per se. They only give off the normal ambient cedar aroma. I know Cedar oil would of course change this.

Thank you kindly for taking the time to share your great wisdom,knowledge and experience. If you read through my posting again,what I said was "I desire to see the wood grain more clearly than raw unfinished cedar" I never used any such words like "wet" or "luster". 
I prefer the more matte look and I never stain my wood but I do think it is more pleasing to the eye to bring out the natural grain pattern in the wood. Left untreated and completely raw the grain does not jump out at you the same way.

I love the Danish oil and what it does but my one problem has always been,drying issues. Anything beyond just one thin coat of the oil alone and I run into problems.

From your posting I am for the very first time considering leaving it raw.

I have two questions for you:
1) Is it possible to mix Watco and the Cedar oil?
2) What would you suggest to thin Cedar oil so it would not be so strong?
It tends to darken the wood too much and it's 'aroma' is too strong to live in.
3) What about Loren's paste wax idea?


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## firefighterontheside

I live in a red pine log home with eastern red cedar hand railing going up,stairs and all the way around the loft. All the spindles are small saplings of eastern red cedar. I don't smell it at all anymore. Guests say they can smell it. Aside from sanding it occasionally or adding cedar oil, the smell goes away after several years.


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## starmaykr

Here is the profile I replicated. This is my first time using this website's interface.









This is the old knotty pine I am replacing with newly milled knotty western red cedar.


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## joeyinsouthaustin

Your welcome for the response. Here is an excellent resource to help you decide. The picture helps quite a bit, so thanks.

Your questions: 1. Not sure: Watco is a brand name and produces a number of finishes. I assume you are thinking Danish oil. It is a blend of varnish and a penetrating oil. It can be used with cedar, but the cedar oil will slow and prevent the full curing of the danish oil. Cedar oil is generally the last oil of choice to treat the cedar. Linseed, or teak oil is the first choice in the oil category. Cedar oil is generally used to renew aromatic cedar, and to chase away mosquitoes. It can be used to treat cedar, and as a floor polish, but IMO should be used alone in those cases.

2. I am not sure what to use to cut it. 
3. There are many wax options, and knowing that it is smooth cedar, paste wax would be one that would work, and would probably highlight the grain the most, in the way you are describing.

I guess experimenting is the next step.


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## redfox05

Hi there,

I know this post is from ages ago, and I really hope that resurrecting it is not going to be a problem, but I wanted to know about the cedar curing comments in this thread. A few people have said using danish oil on Cedar is a bad idea, as the cedar it will stop it from fully curing.

But, what if you HAVE used it on cedar? Specifically, in my case, on a cedar bed. One coat of the wipe on Danish fruitwood oil has been used, but now im not sure what effect that will have.
What does it ultimately mean if it does not fully cure. What impacts does that have? I've had the bed fully done and in use for about 7 months now.

Also, I'm concerned about the cedar in general as indoor furniture. Had no idea about the toxicity of cedar before making it with my friend. Apparently the fumes/oil are bad for you long term? Is there anything I can do to protect ourselves from this? Should I coat the danish in a few layers of poly? Will that help?

I also realised that the planks that the mattress sits on are also cedar and these were NOT sealed with anything, not even the danish oil. Should I perhaps seal those to be on the safe side. Its a very small bedroom with not much ventilation, so I want to be safe.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Thank you very much in advance.


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## starmaykr

redfox50

Although most of the other people who responded to my original post would be better qualified to answer your questions,I will offer what little I have learned since then.

The first of your questions relates to "curing"? A thin coat of the Danish oil on cedar will certainly cure over time just depends on the circumstances. Any more than one thin coat and I have run into curing problems.
As to the consequences of getting into a slow curing situation?
My experience is that the wood will be tacky to the touch. A real issue for something like furniture that people are prone to touch often.

Although sealing cedar with something like poly will cut down the smell from the cedar oils, you have no need to be paranoid. Apart from either sleeping/living in a room paneled with unsealed 'Aromatic' cedar or inhaling the saw dust created from cutting cedar, I would not be that concerned. A sealed cedar wood bed frame will not create any issues unless the person has some sort of extreme allergy.

Any body else here on this board can correct me if I am wrong.


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## Unknowncraftsman

Western red cedar is not really considered a aromatic cedar.From my memory the best Aromatic cedar come from Tennessee.
Both are really a cypress WRC will certainly look better in my opinion so good choice there.I would want some kind of clear coat on my cedar walls too.Just not sure if you can have it both ways.Sealers do seal.


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## starmaykr

Aj2. Correct on all accounts. Your common WRC is not a cedar at all and is normally not "aromatic" in the sense of using it for a cedar chest or cedar closet. And the answer is: NO! You cannot have it both ways. You must choose either to Seal or keep as much of the aroma as possible by leaving it unfinished.

It has been some time since I started this thread and I have done an experiment on my own. 
I put Aromatic "Cedar Oil" (of course this oil is not really cedar either) over my WRC in the one room meant to serve as a cedar closet. Just as the over all aroma of the uncoated WRC is no longer noticeable after a few months, likewise the WRC I coated with the WRC Oil has also lost most of it's aromatic qualities after about six months later.

To all of you very bright and knowledgeable people who have been kind enough to participate in this thread I will try to post some photos of the WRC dream home we built here in Western Massachusetts.

I want to sincerely thank you all.


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## redfox05

Thanks all for your comments, it's certainly a thing I did not consider before making the bed, and although I am new to workworking as someone wondered, I have done many projects in the past, but out of things such as pine, which is a common wood for furniture, never Cedar.

starmaykr, you mentioned a sealed bed would be fine, but in my case, I only put a single wipe on coat of the Danish fruitwood oil on it, which from what I understand, only has a very small amount of poly in it.

The bedhead is about 6ft high, which is basically panelling almost most of one side of the bedroom, as its a small bedroom.

The concern I had was around the plicatic acid contained in the Cedar. It also depends what Cedar, I know Western and Eastern are different. Mine was from Home Depot in BC, which I would assume is Western Cedar, as well, we're in Western Canada, is that a good assumption? 

And WRC is one to contain a lot of this acid…

I'm also new to Canada (coming from the UK) and Cedar is something I had not yet worked with before.

Most of the research was from google, I'll include a few below, but it also includes the wood database page that someone else had quoted above.

Having said that, I do feel somewhat better about it considering your comments.

I'm still however wondering if its worth adding an extra coat of 'something' as Cedar is traditionally used outdoor rather than indoor. Someone suggested Tung oil to me today, any thoughts on that? I'm hoping I can do something that does not involve having to do it outside, as all I have is a balcony in my apartment.

http://www.wood-database.com/wood-ar...s-and-toxicity
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...r-really-toxic
https://www.instructables.com/answer...dar-Poisonous/

As per the 2nd link, Australian Red Cedar, has been banned as a furniture making timber, at the Canberra School of the Arts, in their Fine Furniture Workshop, as Aussie Red is carcinogenic. Not sure about whatever Cedar is over in Canada.

Again, thanks for all your comments. I really appreciate it and the efforts that you have gone to to look it up. My girlfriend will be moving in soon, and I want to make sure its all good to go. Anything I can do before then to finish off the bed is what is driving me to look into all this right now. From the googling, it has been shown dust, shavings or the wood can aggravate or even cause breathing problems, so I naturally came here to see what others more experienced than me thought about it, cos I don't want to end up causing Asthma or whatever breathing issues for me and my girlfriend. That wood database even mentioned a cancer in relation to Cedar, so it leaves me a bit clueless as what to think of the next step.


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## redfox05

And starmaykr, just want to say, those photos look beautiful! A lovely house.


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## starmaykr

redfox05

I do not know anything about plicatic acid or how much is contained in WRC.
You can ask what the species is at Home Depot but I have only seen WRC at Home Depot.

As for what else to coat it with?
If you are NOT looking for that hard shiny finish my first suggestion would be the Tung oil and my second would be to wax it. If a shiny finish than throw on the poly.
I have only run into problems applying more than one coat of the Danish oil.
Any of the above there will help to seal out the carcinogenic fumes.


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## pintodeluxe

I would experiment with Howard's butcher block conditioner on samples of cedar.

Clear shellac would be a great choice, but will prevent you from smelling the cedar. You could always finish it right with a satin or matte finish and hang bags of cedar chips for the smell. No one would know the difference, and your hard work would look just as good in 10 years.


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## rwe2156

Don't finish it.

Cedar aroma will go away even with no finish.

Give it a sanding to get the smell back.


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## redfox05

Yeah im not actually interested in keeping the smell, as the smell fades anyway. I'm concerned about the respiratory effects from the offgassing of the acids in the wood, as per the links I posted. But perhaps the danger is more with the smaller bits of wood like dust and cedar chips. The research definately showed cedar wood chips not being good for animal beds. So I wont be hanging the cedar chips though, but thanks for the suggestion.

Thanks Starmaykr on the suggestion for tung oil. A few people have suggested that to me, so might give it a go.

A friend also ended up with hypersensitivity pneumonitis which I dont know much about but she said its a pretty rare condition, when there is contact with some of the chemicals in wood; a parallel would be 'black lung' in miners. But she had it. Altho her asthma precipitated that condition, and the HP was actually caused by mold in books for her. But, as I have mild asthma, im just airing on the side of caution.

Anyway, from what you have all said, it could maybe be an issue, but not as serious as I first thought? So I might be ok just leaving the bed as is? But perhaps I will consider trying to seal it some more with Tung oil if that will help.

Sounds like a lot of your house is actually not sealed at all @starmaykr, is that correct? So if you're not having any problems perhaps it should be okay? I just get told cedar should generally not be used indoors, only outdoors, but through these posts I see lots of people using it indoors for panelling, so maybe its more common than I thought? Again, new to the country, so im new to what is 'the norm' so I appreciate you all filling me in.


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## kelvancra

Another vote for "don't finish it." Look at old hope chests and you'll note they aren't finished inside. If they were, it would seal the oils in and the scent would be lost.

To revive the smell of aromatic cedar, just lightly sand with 400. You only have to scuff the surface. Of course, it you seal it with anything, reviving the smell the usual way isn't going to happen.


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## starmaykr

redfox05

We originally chose to use the cedar because of it's pest repellent qualities. Unfortunately, these same qaulities are known to have adverse respiratory effects on certain people who are naturally sensitive to these pest repellent vapors. As you can see, I panelled the entire house with the WRC. After the wonderful feedback from this post we decided to leave it all unfinished. After a couple of years, the aromatic smell is only noticeable for a short while after first entering the home.

Using WRC indoors is fine if you do not have any special preexisting respiratory sensitivity to the wood. True "Aromatic" cedar would still be unhealthy for the lungs even if you did NOT have any existing respiratory issues.

I have no way of knowing how sensitive you, your girlfriend or your dog might be to wood smells but from what you have described, if you were to seal the WRC on something like a bed frame,I strongly doubt it could have adverse effects. Once you seal it, you are sealing off the carcinogens.

I suspect, once you have sealed it, you will be fine.


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## redfox05

Hi starmaykr,

Thanks for your reply. And yes, that clarifies it much more. So far I've lived with it for over half a year, and no issues other than dry eyes, but thats probably nothing to do with the wood. So I'm good, its just seeing how my girlfriend will be with it. She moves in on Saturday, so we can see. Not sure on her allergies etc, but I know she has hayfever/pollen sensitivity.

In terms of you saying it will be fine once sealed, 50% of the bed frame is coated with ONE coat of danish oil, so does not quite seal that much right? And then the other 50% is bare wood. (The back of the 6 foot headboard, and the mattress slats).

As for WRC, I'm not even sure what type of Cedar it is, I guess I can call Home depot and find out.

What makes aromatic cedar worse? And how that type identified. Eastern? The research I did suggested that WRC had the most concentration of this plicatic acid which causes the respiratory issues.

Given that its such an effort to take it outside and finish with girlfriend moving in, for now I might leave it (and risk it?), but maybe once the girlfriend is settled into the apartment, I can take some time to take it apart (that part is quite easy, its all metal hooks) and then I finish it. Either tung oil or some kind of poly? I heard now that I put Danish oil on, I have to stay with oil based rather than water based.


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## LindaVdZ

So…I have purchased, cut to size and went to put up cedar wainscoting in our little one-room mountain cabin. I unloaded it all from the car, put in place and decided to wait until morning to secure. Overnight I developed a bad headache and irritated lungs. I am sure I was having a reaction to the cedar aroma. I waited another day, just to see and my symptoms persisted.
What can I do? If I do seal it, will that seal in the otherwise lovely cedar aroma? Would I use polyurethane? water- or oil-based? Something else?
It's absolutely beautiful wood, but I need to resolve/prevent my reaction to the cedar scent.


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## gargey

The theory that cedar repels insects, moths, etc, is 95% myth. FYI.


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## ArtMann

The commercial cedar chests I have seen, including the one I own, were not finished on the inside.


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## msinc

> No finish if you want to smell it. In a cedar chest, you can lightly sand the interior after a few years to renew the smell. You might also notice they only finish the exterior of a cedar chest. You will be living in a giant cedar chest.
> 
> - Grandpa


This!!!!!!! Strikes the nail smack square dead on the money!!! Personally, if it was me I would finish the cedar with some type of varnish and use bug bombs. I really like the look of clear gloss finish on cedar wood.


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## starmaykr

> So…I have purchased, cut to size and went to put up cedar wainscoting in our little one-room mountain cabin. I unloaded it all from the car, put in place and decided to wait until morning to secure. Overnight I developed a bad headache and irritated lungs. I am sure I was having a reaction to the cedar aroma. I waited another day, just to see and my symptoms persisted.
> What can I do? If I do seal it, will that seal in the otherwise lovely cedar aroma? Would I use polyurethane? water- or oil-based? Something else?
> It s absolutely beautiful wood, but I need to resolve/prevent my reaction to the cedar scent.
> 
> - LindaVdZ


LindaVdZ

It is always a question of striking the acceptable balance between the aroma and your personal health. If you (or your family) have a bad reaction to it, then don't use it. You did not to say what type of cedar you are using? With WRC the scent will wear off after about two years. If you seal it that will knock down the smell also.

-starmaykr


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## starmaykr

> The theory that cedar repels insects, moths, etc, is 95% myth. FYI.
> 
> - gargey


gargey

My own experience has proven the repellant qualities of the cedar wood to be mostly true. About 80% true and only about 20% Myth.

As for the rodents?
Worked fine until the aroma wore down after about two years,after that the mice are certainly present but not to the same degree. I would give this a Myth buster rating of about 50/50,half true half false.

As for insects?
It has done a fairly good job of repelling most flying insects such as moths, gnats, flies, bees & mosquitos.

It will NOT repel any Spiders or CARPENTER ANTS!,at all!.

-starmaykr


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## YusukeHeller

Whenever I do aromatic cedar for furniture or a closet I leave the cedar unfinished so that the smell is always there. If you want that glossy feel prep sand the parts with 350g or 400g


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## ArtMann

The insect repellent qualities of Eastern Red Cedar is proven and well documented. There have been furniture factories lining chests with cedar since long before there were insecticides, and they are still doing so today. The Lane brand chest that we have from the 1940's is somewhat famous for their chests. The outside is maple veneer. The inside is completely unfinished.The instructions that came with it say to sand the inside to restore the aroma. If you coat or varnish the wood with anything it will neutralize those properties.


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## patcollins

I would finish it however you wanted. There is no way cedar paneling is going to do much to keep pests out, maybe moths.


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## kelvancra

Reminder: You don't need more coarse than 400 grit to touch up the face and bring back the aroma.



> The insect repellent qualities of Eastern Red Cedar is proven and well documented. There have been furniture factories lining chests with cedar since long before there were insecticides, and they are still doing so today. The Lane brand chest that we have from the 1940 s is somewhat famous for their chests. The outside is maple veneer. The inside is completely unfinished.The instructions that came with it say to sand the inside to restore the aroma. If you coat or varnish the wood with anything it will neutralize those properties.
> 
> - ArtMann


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