# Not recommended for shellac



## JJohnston (May 22, 2009)

Do they say what's in it? Frankly, I can't imagine the need for a "green" DNA - after all, ethanol is a totally natural product. It's just yeast poop.


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## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

Thanks for the warning. Also avoid the "green" mineral spirits. It's a milky white emulsion and is useless except for cleaning brushes.


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

the first time i tried water based contact cement
i couldn't get it to stick worth a dam

give me good old lacquer based

pretty soon they will have 
'new and improved formula'
eco-friendly for all finishes

*WATER !*


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## Puffin (Feb 25, 2011)

Sorry for your troubles and thanks for the heads up. Well at least one silver lining is you helped some of us from having a similar experience.


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## joewilliams (Aug 1, 2012)

thanks for the warning!


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## ChrisForthofer (Jan 1, 2010)

Green alcohol? That's a new one on me… While I have no problems with "green" products, I generally steer clear of them. If it works as well or better than its non-green counterpart, great, but usually they fall short like this one did. Thanks for the review.

Chris.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

They probably made it "GREEN" by dilluting it with 50% water, then jack the price up 50% because it's "GREEN".
Sad thing is that this marketing scam works and creates millions of dollars in sales for basicly inferior products.


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## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

The green MS is an emulsion and I surmise that it does contain some amount of water. I tried making a wiping poly by mixing it with oil-based poly and wiped on a coat, and 5 days later it was still tacky. Brought the container back to HD and got my money back.


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## denovich (Sep 2, 2010)

The Kleen Strip Green is almost entirely Ethanol (ethyl alcohol, the kind you drink)... Check out the MSDS: http://www.wmbarr.com/ProductFiles/KSG%20Denatured%20Alcohol.pdf

The regular Kleen Strip DNA is about 50% Ethanol, 50% Methanol (the kind that makes you blind)... 
http://www.wmbarr.com/ProductFiles/1625%206%20KS%20Denatured%20Alcohol%209%2012%2012.pdf

Everything I've read about Shellac is that Ethanol is the preferred solvent. Shellac might dissolve faster in it, but too much methanol causes issues when it dries. I exclusively use the Kleen Strip Green as it's the only 95% Ethanol DNA that's easy to obtain, and I certainly prefer not being exposed to methanol.


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## Purrmaster (Sep 1, 2012)

Now that is interesting. So the tradeoff for it dissolving slowly is that the shellac may go on better? That does change my perspective a bit.

What kind of problems does too much methanol cause? I'll be doing a sort of "head to head" between the two alcohols once everything dries. It may not be a fair test though because I mixed a 2 pound cut with the regular denatured and a 3 pound cut with the Green stuff.

Thanks for the information.


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## WoodworkGuy (Oct 1, 2010)

Glad to know. Definitely won't buy this stuff for shellac. Will have to see how it works for other things. Thanks for the review!


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## Purrmaster (Sep 1, 2012)

Please do note denovich's post. He has a counter argument that the "green" stuff is better when it gets to the shellac actually drying. If so, that would largely negate my review. Can anyone else comment on this? I don't want to knock a product incorrectly because I don't have enough facts.


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## GarageWoodworks (Jun 30, 2012)

denovich nailed it. The green is >90% ethanol and the regular is 50% ethanol 50% methanol. Apparently shellac is more soluble in methanol than ethanol.

In order to salvage your green ethanol, buy a container of methanol from the BORG and cut your green ethanol in half to make a solution of roughly 50:50 ethanol/methanol. That way you won't waste it.


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## Purrmaster (Sep 1, 2012)

But does a higher methanol content lead to the shellac having drying problems?


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## GarageWoodworks (Jun 30, 2012)

No. The higher the methanol content the faster the drying time should be the only difference you see.


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## SoCaAl (May 17, 2011)

Thanks for the warning. I probably would have given the "green" a try.


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## AaronK (Nov 30, 2008)

yikies. 50% methanol is scary - be sure to use this stuff with plenty of ventilation!


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## Purrmaster (Sep 1, 2012)

Shellac mixed with the "green" alcohol dries pretty darn fast. My shellac in both regular and green denatured alcohol has finally dissolved so I'll let you guys know if I see any difference in finish quality or ease of application between the two.


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## GarageWoodworks (Jun 30, 2012)

@Aaron - It's only scary if you drink it - which I don't recommend.


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## JJohnston (May 22, 2009)

Interesting. Quoting from the MSDS on the hazards of methanol:

"Poison. This product contains methanol…Ethanol competes for the same metabolic pathway and has been used as an antidote."

Proving, once again, that alcohol is both the cause of, and the solution to, all of life's problems.


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## GarageWoodworks (Jun 30, 2012)

@JJ. That's right. Methanol and ethanol are both first metabolized by alcohol dehydrogenase to form acetaldehyde (in the case of ethanol) and formaldehyde (in the case of methanol). Acetaldehyde is what makes you feel hung over and is further metabolized to acetic acid by acetaldehyde dehydrogenase. Interestingly woman usually have less acetaldehyde dehydrogenase and get more severe hang overs. Figure out how to increase acetaldehyde dehydrogenase activity and you'll make big bucks as a hang over cure.


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## JJohnston (May 22, 2009)

Geez….I was just quoting a joke from the Simpsons.


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## GarageWoodworks (Jun 30, 2012)

Sorry JJ. I gave you more ammo for your next game of trivia pursuit.


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## tomd (Jan 29, 2008)

I think a visit to "www.shellac.net/alcohol." will provide alot of info on alcohol for shellac.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Here's another perspective. In Canada DNA is non-existent, who knows why. I think it has to do with the liquor control board.

Anyway the best I've been able to get is 99% pure isopropyl and it works just beautifully with shellac. Dissolves overnight and French polishes to glass like finish. Just the right evaporation time.

You can buy small bottles for a high price at the drug store as "rubbing alcohol" or gallons for much less at the feed stores as "horse liniment".


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## SouthpawCA (Jul 19, 2009)

I've used this with excellent results. The problem I had was old shellac flakes. I called the guy at shellac.net and described what I was experiencing and he recommended this with fresh flakes. I haven't had a problem since. I now keep my flakes in a cool dark area, not in the garage where it can get extremely hot. Are you sure your flakes weren't old? What you described was exactly what happened to me prior to getting fresh shellac flakes.


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## denovich (Sep 2, 2010)

The big knock on methanol is it's toxicity. Pure ethanol I can use in my basement shop… methanol I have to treat as I would any other highly toxic solvent (acetone, xylene, etc). I don't mind wearing a respirator, but I can't have it transferring into the living spaces above. That means methanol is restricted to outside-only use. But the weather really complicates things… so shellac and ethanol it is.

As far as methanol and the quality of the finish… it evaporates faster, so you may need to compensate for that (by adding a retarder, or waiting for lower ambient temperatures, etc.)


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## OldAle (Oct 15, 2012)

Hi Everyone,
I'm new to this site. I'm not exactly a woodworker, but have been a luthier for many years. Like TomD says, go the the shellac.net site. This is the kind of dna they recommend and it works great for me. I use shellac as a barrier between the wood and a waterborne KTM-9 finish. I've never had any problems with it.


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## Purrmaster (Sep 1, 2012)

I've got a minor update. I bought some 190 proof (95% ethanol) Everclear at the liquor store. And used it on some shellac flakes. The shellac dissolved overnight. I've used it and have had no problems with drying.

So it would appear not having methanol in the alcohol doesn't screw up the dissolving of the flakes. There's something about the "green" stuff that makes it take forever to dissolve flakes and I don't think it's the ethanol content.

I hasten to add that the green stuff does eventually dissolve shellac. And I haven't noticed that the finished product is any worse (or better) than that made with regular denatured alcohol or Everclear.

Please note that I'm not trying to tell anyone which alcohol to use. If you use this stuff and like it, more power to you.

I'm going to try 99% isopropyl on a small batch and see how that works.


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## bonobo (Oct 8, 2012)

Canadians having difficulty getting pure ethanol might like to know about *BioFlame* ethanol fireplace fuel.

It works really well, dissolves quickly and dries hard. You can get it at Canadian Tire and Pro Hardware but you should call ahead to make sure it's in stock.


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## raggydoo (Apr 7, 2011)

Just wanted to add a positive comment on the "green" dna. I used it on the recommendation of shellac.net and my flakes dissolved in just a few hours. It was also a few cents cheaper than the non-green dna.


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