# Live and learn.



## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

You know, as a woodworker, I've been a solitary animal. No one I know shares the interest or passion like I do, so I've been pretty much left to learn on my own. 
When I came to LJ, I was so happy to see others with my interests. 
When I wrote the forum post; 'is safety safe' I hardly expected the storm of opinion I got. 
Turns out I've been doing a lot of unsafe things. 
Opinions vary from some who agree that too much safety is useless to people who resemble my mother, to others calling me stupid, idiot, and other names. 
I don't really mind the name calling, I've been online for quite some time and have very thick skin and I realize that these folks are probably just as nice as the rest of LJ, so no worries. 
I won't go into my philosophical rant that correlation does not equal causation either, although I could make several points which would straighten out some illogical thinking regarding safety. I would just like to thank everyone for their information, and let you know that I'll take it to heart. I'm sure there are a lot of others who needed to hear it as well. 
As for the TS safety, I will work on some jigs, but I think it's useless until I get the table saw I want. The one I'm using now is a good saw, but not for the shop. It's one I can take outside on wheels and work there on some outdoor projects. I figure it will take me about 5 more trips to Lowes before I actually get that saw though.

Meanwhile I guess the point of this post is to say thank you for all your advise. Even if I don't follow it right now, I know more than I did, and that's what's great about being here.

You've made me a safer woodworker.


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## BensBeerStShop (Jan 8, 2012)

Don't buy a saw from lowes. You'll get much more for your money if you shop around online. Glad you came to LJ too, lots of great people, advise and know how around here


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Ben, I want that porter cable saw. It's 600 bucks and no other saw touches it for that money. Believe me, I've been shopping TS's for months.


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## oldworld124 (Mar 2, 2008)

Ben, Try craigslist in your area. Look fro a good used Delta, Powermatic, or Rockwell cabinet saw in the 3 HP range. They are worth having. Most table saws have very similar footprints. Make sure it has an, accufence, newer style Delta fence or a Beisemeyer fence. A good fence is an important part of a table saw.


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## doncutlip (Aug 30, 2008)

Second Ben's opinion; don't buy a TS a lowes. You might want to check out Grizzly; great stuff and reasonable prices.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

John, I can't do 3 hp, not enough amps in my house to spare.


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## oldworld124 (Mar 2, 2008)

Ben, here is a link to a possible table saw in Kansas City. These saws must be in very good condition to worth buying. No picture of this one for sale. Worth a call to get photos and condition.

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/2879968549.html


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Don, I've compared the Grizzly G0715P TS, (at $900 delivered) with the Porter Cable PCB270TS, ($600) And I don't find enough difference to justify the extra $300. Tell my why Grizzly is better.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

John, I emailed to see it. Why doesn't he just post the photos if he can email them?


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Russ
I think there's a small factor of folks that name call ,I would just focus on the other 99% .Like you say you've been on line and you know there are some folks that just don't know any better. As for not following advise I don't know how anyone really can since there are so many different approaches to any given question. 
As far as table saws in the $600
I think Ridgid 4512 is one of the best out there in that range .http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=202500206&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=202500206&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D25X-_-202500206
I have not seen a porter cable so I don't know how it compairs to the Ridgid. But I have used a Ridgid and 7 or 8 of my students who have purchased the Ridgid's and not one has been unhappy with there purchase. I own a much larger saw and when I've used one of my students Ridgid saw and was very surprised at how well it cut and how good the fence was for a saw in that price range. If you have just shopped on line and not actually tried the saws fence you plan on buying I would strongly advise you try the fence in person. As far as comparing Grizzly to the portercable model there is a difference in the style , I would say either will work depending on what kind work your going to work on. the cabinet(hybrid) saws will work better for sheet goods and have a higher resale.


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Russell, I agree w/Jim. I have had a Ridgid ts3650 for yrs, and been happy. I think most people who have one, like it. Plus you may be able to use a HF 20% off coupon. I believe Steel City also has a pretty well regarded contractor saw. If you can get 220, a used cabinet saw, may be the best option. A new grizzly cabinet saw would probably be a nice step up from a contractor saw, but you would be double budget on it. You can do most woodworking w/a properly tuned contractor saw and a sharp quality blade.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Jim, that Ridgid looks good, and it's cheaper. I usually don't go to Home Depot because I've been using Lowes for so long I know everyone out there, but I think I'll pay them a visit tomorrow…besides I've already bought all the straight 1×4's at Lowes and I need more. A guy here in town on LJ told me about another guy about 5 miles away who has some walnut lumber for around the same price a board foot as what I was talking to you about earlier. I'm meeting with him tomorrow and hope to purchase lots of walnut and cedar. He has a mill and dry's wood too. So I'm almost set now. I can't wait to work some walnut even though his wood is 15/16 thick. I think walnut is an amazingly beautiful wood, and with Niel's pre-conditioner it will be much easier to get a professional finish.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Shane, what's this about a 20% off coupon? 
The Ryobi was a impulse purchase, I couldn't pass it up at 199 as I was still up in the air about which TS to get. I figured it would get me by in the mean time.


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## allmyfingers (Feb 26, 2011)

unfortunately the Porter-Cable name was bought and prostituted into a cheap version of its former self. It is no longer a quality company.
we use a Ridgid (15 years old and still perfect) in the shop, and a Hitachi (sorry no longer making TS) at job-sites.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Steel City has lots of saws but no prices.


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## Sawdust4Blood (Feb 16, 2010)

Russ, 
I own an earlier version of the Ridgid saw and definitely recommend it over the PC. The one thing about Ridgid that PC can't touch is the warranty and customer service. The one time I had a problem with a Ridgid part (it worked but it just wasn't right) I sent an e-mail to Ridgid's customer service with a digital picture and four days later Fedex delivered a replacement…no questions asked.


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Some HDs and Lowes too will honor competitor's coupon. Harbor Freight will have a 20%off one item coupon in all Sunday KC Star papers. Check w/the mgr at HD to see if they will take it on TS. I got the 6" ridgid jointer a couple yrs ago for $200ish w/the coupon. Good luck.

Oh yeah, never buy wood at lowes or hd. Metro hardwoods on noland rd or schutte off I35, have better quality and prices.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Sawdust, one thing I do like about the Ridgid is the power switch. The PC has a dust cover you have to lift in order to turn the saw off. I had planned to take that off.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Shane, it's been years since I was at Schutte. I didn't know it was still there. I'll try them tomorrow. It looks like tomorrow is going to be a busy day for me!


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

I prefer metro personally, they are nice guys. closer too, but I bet both are closed on sundays, fyi.


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## Kickback (Mar 9, 2011)

Go with that Rigid 4512 you will not be disappointed. A full on cabinet saw is probably the best but if your budget/space is limited like mine then the Rigid saw is the next best thing. I bought a used TS 3650 for $300 and it is an awesome saw that is dead nuts accurate. The fence to blade measurement on my saw varies by less than .005 and that is good for me. The fence is just fantastic for a saw in this category. The cast iron tables are a great addition to a contractor saw even though mine were not taken care of as well as if I had bought it new myself but they are flat and true. I added the Herculift base to it recently from a member here who had an extra one as my saw did not have it when I bought it. Makes the saw so much easier to move around the shop now. I think once you look at the Rigid saw if Homey's near you has one to fondle you will forget the PC tablesaw and immediately buy the Rigid. I have not seen the 4512 but it looks like the 3650 just a newer model.

P.S. Go to the Homey's website and read the reviews nary a negative review of this saw. Does really suck that they deleted the cast iron table wings but it is still a great saw that i think is better than the PC.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Shane, well that figures, but I probably have enough to do. I plan on buying lots of wood from Jim and he hinted that he'd haul it for me. I should clean up my dusty shop in case he has a look at it. I've been sanding adirondack seats slats all day, it's rather a mess down there.


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## Iggles88 (Dec 8, 2011)

Russ please take my advice and do not buy that porter cable saw. I had it and it is terrible. The wings are cheaply made they dip in the center which I thought maybe was just my saw but have talked to many others that had the same problem. The main reason I took it back was because the fence would not stay parallel to the blade. It would be parallel when not locked then why you lock it in place it kicked in 50 thousandths of an inch. From one new woodworker to another please don't buy that saw save your money and get a different saw. I've never used a Ridgid saw but have heard many mixed opinions on them. I'd probably go with a grizzly, I'm looking for a new saw right now as well and am almost definitely going with grizzly.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Sounds like a fun day enjoy Russ.


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## BensBeerStShop (Jan 8, 2012)

I got my delta contractor saw w/ a Beisemeyer fence on CL for 450. I was looking at grizzly and even steel city before I found that. I've never seen any saw I'd trust at any lowes or HD. My personal opinion, but That is mostly because They all have way too much plastic. Plastic and tools don't go together well IMO. Good luck to you, enjoy whichever you do get and make lots of sawdust!


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## ShipWreck (Feb 16, 2008)

I agree with the Ridgid folks. That Porter Cable has had alot of blade alignment issues.


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## skywalker01 (May 19, 2009)

For what it's worth don't buy the saws from the box stores. There are not useful for precision work. They work great for construction style work but when you want to fine tune them you will find that they are not up to par with what you can get in a higher end saw like the Unisaw, powermatics, jet's, grizzly's. Save up for one if you don't have it now. You won't regret getting a higher quality saw but you will be confused and upset dealing with one that sucks.


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

I think some people resort to name calling in order to try to convey a strong sense of you shouldn't do something. <shrugs>


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Gotta agree that there should be a "SHAME" award that can be sent to the no-brainers who bastardized the Porter Cable brand.
Bill


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## joebloe (Feb 13, 2012)

Russell,I'm in the same boat as you.I have steered clear of Porter cable,Rigid,Riobi,and Craftsman.I have looked at all of them and didn't like what I saw.Now I'm checking out Jet ,and Grizzly.


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

John, with some of the tool companies that you mention, the tools are made by various other companies, so while the company that may manufacture let's say a chop saw isn't any good, the one that makes their routers is good. I know my contractor saw made by craftsman is actually as good as a dewalt anyday, but then it's also not the model most use anyways, and we're not talking cabinet saws either.

P.S Dewalt is manufactured by… Black and Decker…


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## joebloe (Feb 13, 2012)

TCCcabinetmaker,All I was talking about was Table saws.I have a complete mix and match of different brands of tools.I'm just looking for a better and newer table saw,mine was built back in the 1950's,tough saw but getting wore out,it's a Craftsman.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Safety is important and we should all try to be safe but it doesn't need to rule the roost. Almost all of the people here on Lumberjocks are very easy to get along with. You'll do just fine here and we're glad to have you. Just enjoy yourself.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com/


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