# Our dogs place in our american society



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Before I start let me say I don't dislike dogs or people who own them,I have had many dogs they were considered treasured members of our family.
I know many people may disagree with me but I think that our love of dogs have gone overboard with people treating dogs and other pets like people. They dress dogs up like people,they address them as if there,their children and take them places were in my opinion dogs don't belong ,by tucking them in their purses or inside thier coats and even wheel them into stores in strollers like little babies. What brought this to mind is a recent trip to Walmart were I saw a total of 6 dogs in the store that were clearly not service dogs. One of them was barking,after seeing a shocked look on a ladies face it made me think what if there was someone deathly afraid of dogs close by as one of my relative is. It seems that many times we value or dogs more than humans. In San Francisco they have passed a law stating that it's against the law to even call dogs pets. It seems to me this is a phenomena that only occurs in the United States ,or is this every where in the world. Again I don't dislike dogs ,but I feel they have their place this means their not in little dresses,strollers or setting in the child's seat of a super market basket. I know all of these things presents no harm to myself other than make me think our society is in a down word spiral ,what happen to helping the sick,the poor or our next door neighbor instead of dressing up our dogs to go to anothers dog's birthday party

What's your take on this?


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*A1Jim*, I believe it was Santa Cruz, not San Francisco that did the name change but as for the rest of your post, I totally agree with you.

My son works at a big box store and he would like to tell people to leave their pets at home, dogs, parakeets, and lizards but the management does no want to "turn off" shopping experience to the customers.

Of course there is also the other extreme of mistreated pets or those being trained for fighting. It appears that people have to go over board and cannot live in the mainstream.

We have had three dogs in our married life and they were pets, not children, and we kept them as that so that we both could keep our dignity.

In that same time period we have also had three cats and they were also kept as cats as we know they must keep their dignity above all!


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## studie (Oct 14, 2009)

See my post Shop Dogs on my project page to see how many chimed in to comment. Kind of a sore subject right now as just 3 weeks ago we had to put our beloved Maggie to sleep. She just wore out, could not use her back legs for the last few days but would still manage to get to my bedside to sleep at night after I went to bed. Yes, she was a service dog. A few months before I got her (adopted from a job site) my house was robbed. A big smart dog will keep you and your property safe! Even though she never bit or attacked anyone, she made a few grown men pee their pants while roaming around my property without permission before I came out to ask what their business here was! She would rear up and dance with the kids to music if they held her front paws, she was a mother to 8 kittens and the guinea pig too. Smart enough to run off the raccoons but not attack them, could tell if I was sad and would come to my side to comfort me. Never had to tie her up, she just was always there in the yard. Sorry for the rant but feels good to vent some. Some say the pain of letting a good dog go makes you wish you never had them at all, I would not trade our time for anything and will miss my Mag pie forever. 
I do agree with you about rude behavior type dogs, begging, barking or the worst attacking! How a dog behaves is a reflection of how the owner raised and treats it. I love little dogs too but the bigger the dog, the bigger the brain. Foo Foo dogs don't make sense to me but they sure are cute and chick magnets too. Dogs need to be trained to know their place in the home and they are happy with it.


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## Ltwud (Jan 29, 2013)

I agree people do go overboard but I also love dogs and feel they are a good investment. A lot of love for a few bucks a month. I had a gentle old Lab and everyday he went to our family business with me. 80% of my customers loved him and I would say 15-17% didn't mind him.

It was very clear that 1% of people didn't like dogs and let me know it! I thought about it and decided I would much rather replace 1% of my customers than not bring my dog and so I tried to be polite but just didn't care what this small percentage thought. My dog died last year, but to this day have a strong base of loyal dog-owning customers who as soon as they arrive let their dog out and know they are in friendly territory. So I don't disagree some people go overboard but I'm confident my love for gentle/friendly dogs has been good for business!


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## TheWoodenOyster (Feb 6, 2013)

I would bet you aren't hurting many feelings on this site. I think you are spot on with your assessment. Dogs can be useful companions and pets. They can help us herd, hunt, protect our property and beg us to take them on walks so maybe we can burn off that Christmas candy . All jokes aside though, my motto is that if I am going to pay for an animal and take care of it, the dog needs to be giving me something in return. This whole pay $3000 for a fancy dog that sits on the floor all day is beyond me. If the dog isn't doing something for me, I don't get why I would dish out my hard earned cash to keep it around. Again, I think dogs can be plenty useful, especially special needs dogs, bomb squad dogs, and dogs that aid disabled people (sorry I don't know the technical term). I am all for wonderful and useful dogs, but I could live without the useless ones.

Just so you know, I am a 25 yr old middle-upper class white guy who hangs out with a TON of people who adore their useless dogs and treat them like children. This includes taking them into everyone's houses and cars without so much as a "hey do you mind if I bring the dog over?". Then the dog does its business in the brand new truck or on the floor and nobody even feels bad about it. Kind of hacks me off. They haven't gotten me yet and I don't plan on giving in. I have actually gone on a few tirades about this recently, as you may be able to ascertain…

I agree with you wholeheartedly.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

studie and Ltwud
I'm really sorry for your loss ,pets do become family members and are loved by family members and my self and my family have greeved for a lost loved pet. My post was not to say dogs or any pet do not have value ,it's meant to say that I feel the pet owners lose sight that these dear friends are pets not people. Of course I would never excuse or condone any abuse of a poor animal of any kind.


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

well jim you have made a very good observation and human and pet relations goes over the board to much, if there going to dress them and have there hair and nails done, take them to the best, if you have company over for dinner, then for goodness sake, set a plate right in the middle so that they can become more aquatinted, a little hair in your food wont hurt…its fiber isn't it, one time we had company over, we had coco greeting them at the door and some people were rude and just walked by, and being a little stinker, went over to where there;s were for dinner, and he ripped a real loud one, a few of us were having a hoot, then it got really lively, they were dressed like thet were going to a really hip bar, short skirts and in many cases no braw..one who was there was ginger, she is a bloodhound, and a week before the party had just had her babies, i think she had 11 or 12, but man she was hanging to the floor from all that sucking…but i guess i really go agree with what your saying jim..i see couples that have just there dogs, and dont plan on children….i was joking above this, youi know its sad when animals take the place of our children…one can easily link this to other acts of immorality, but this is not the place, thais if i want to continue to be a member here, im sure glad my mom and dad decided to have us as a family, our pets we had were loved, nut they knew there place, and were well behaved..we put them in there kennels when were having dinners with friends, there pretty goo, but my big dog molly will get close and stair, makes you feel uncomfortable if everyone treated others as nice as we do our pets, the world would be getter off, there is so much crime and murder going on…if families were stable snf taught them the lords commandments, as a guide in there life, they would not have the feelings of wanting to create crime's , Jesus Christ in out Lord and redeemer, He is our teacher, if we all lived by those commandments , oh my would the world be so so much better, i wont continue here, if anyone who reads this and wants to know more about following him, i would try to help [email protected]


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

back to the real subject, ive had cats and dogs for as long as i can remember, ive had to put two of them down because of circumstance..but i love them dearly in fact my molly girl is snuggled up on the bed and she gives me those big brown eyes and coco my dachshund who is getting to be pretty old for a dog, sleeps in the living room on her special blanket, but i alway make sure thy don't try to love on our friends to much but if your a stranger then you best stay back, molly does not like new folks and it takes a minute for her to see your ok, but someone better not try anything here, she can go from love and cute to nice white teeth and things will happen, i love my dogs and cats, but i don't go overboard,


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## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Our old girl has 5 acres to supervise while we're away.

When a dog watches you eat….. they are really deep in prayer.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

+1 Jim. Love my dogs, but they're are still dogs. Lady Bug even got credit for one save on the house, one save on my son's '95 Mustang and 1/2 a save on the tools in my truck. She had them on the run before I got there with the persuasion. Maybe I should up her to 3/4 credit. It would have been very inconvenient to have to use persuasion.

This subject of clothing animals reminds me of what my dad used to say about horse blankets. "God put hair on horses for a reason."


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## reedwood (Jan 27, 2011)

don't you wuv me?


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Reminds me of our old Golden retriever,he sure was a good old guy.


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## Kentuk55 (Sep 21, 2010)

It's a real dilemma, Jim. I luv animals too, but, I feel the same way


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

I agree Jim, a dog has it's place and that shouldn't be in a handbag.


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

Dogs are simply dogs. The few years I've been without one or two were incomplete years of my life. 
Working dogs are great and I admire them, their trainers and owners. My dogs have just been friends.
People who dress up their dogs are misguided. The closest we come to dressing our dogs is their "Bras" that their leashes attach to. 
I've never owned a "breed". All mine have been rescued mongrels. Somehow. I think they appreciate being rescued. I've never owned a mean dog.


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## JustJoe (Oct 26, 2012)

*by tucking them in their purses or inside their coats and even wheel them into stores in strollers like little babies. *
If it fits in a purse, stroller, or your coat, it's not a dog. It's a domesticated rat.

*What brought this to mind is a recent trip to Walmart were I saw a total of 6 dogs in the store that were clearly not service dogs.* 
Well it's Walmart, not Neiman Marcus. They do attract a certain type of clientele. Try visiting around 3 am and you'll see animals usually only found on a farm or in a zoo. In Georgia - I kid you not - I once came across a middle-aged lady in a bikini, tennis shoes with socks, and a large snake draped over her shoulders.

*In San Francisco they have passed a law stating that it's against the law to even call dogs pets.*

San Francisco - 'nuff said.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

I only ever owned hunting dogs to hunt with. Some of the stuff you see is pretty crazy that people do w/ little dogs. My girlfriend really loves her toy poodle, at least she doesn't take it shopping. I do take my lab into Lowe's fairly often.


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## john111 (Dec 18, 2012)

Let me preface this by I love dogs and have had a few that I liked more than most people. A dog is a animal.We call them that because they are DIFFERENT! End of story really. There is a reason they are not allowed in stores. They do not take showers. Well I guess that isn't a good arguement is it! LMAO! Seriuosly they are not as clean as I would like next to my food. Slobering all over my t-bone! Some people are allergic to pets. So where do they fit in all this? I think it comes down to who trains the pets. The neighbors dog barks all morning from 7am till they let it back in. I believe those people should not be allowed to have a pet because those are the type that treat them like people. Dogs are animals! We call them that because they are DIFFERENT.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

I disagree, I don't think it's a sad thing at all that we humans treat our pets as part of the family, I think TheWoodenOyster is a wee bit off in the respect for others I've never seen or heard of what he mentioned nor would I allow that kind of behavior everyone has to take responsibility for their dogs actions and no one is putting their pet in my car without asking me first. I look at it as a turn for the better considering all of the other evil crap that is going on in this world it's a show of compassion that there are still people that care and are giving, I was once asked a Multiple question,

Which is worse: starving children or abused animals?

Starving children.
Abused animals.
Neither, both are good.
Neither, they are equally bad.

My answer was Neither, they are equally bad.


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## Paul2274 (Nov 17, 2009)

I too love dogs and PETS…ANIMALS….. but that is what they are… PETS…ANIMALS!
Pets are property! They cannot make household decisions or do my federal tax return.

Jim the real problem with all this "humanizing" animals is due to the growing dilemma of a 
societal culture that does not value HUMAN LIFE. Plain and simple. The value that we should be
attributing to HUMANS we are giving to ANIMALS. With the way things are going….and mark my words….
some law maker has an idea already somewhere, I'm sure…. a law that will give ANIMALS the right to vote
and I'm sure we will be able to MARRY our PETS soon too!

[Just hanging my head low at how we treat the unborn children]

Paul


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## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

a1jim,I couldn't agree more.I never understood some would put the same value on an animal's life as a human.

Here's a good example:
A few years ago there was a tragic accident when a father saw his 8 year old boy stumble and fall in to the water passage the leads to Niagara falls,he immediately jumped in the water to rescue his boy .they both drowned.

The local radio had their 2 hour talk show dedicated to this tragedy,the question came up ,*"if you see your own dog and a strange man in the water both being drowned ,would you jump in the water to rescue your dog or would you try to save the man*"?

Thankfully most callers said they would help save a human before saving their own dog, but a good percentage of the callers were undecided and some were honest enough to say they would first try to save their own dog .


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Blackie
I did not say we should not treat pets as part of the family,I actully said the reverse. what I did say is that we should treat dogsl ike dogs not humans.
If you were asked as part of that same multipy question "who would you save first in a life and death situation you dog or your child",I would hope it would be your child.
I agree that we all need to show compassion for all living things but people come first.

Edit
Ether you and I were typing at the same time ken or i did not see your post,I did not mean to basically repeat the same idea as your post.


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## 111 (Sep 2, 2013)

As much as I think it's stupid to carry your dog around in a purse and I think it's dumb to drag your dog around in a store, (I think it's disruptive), 
I have to take the stance that it's your life do whatever makes you happy. 
I'm certainly not one that should judge what others do. 
I think there has to be a line though when it invades someone elses space.


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## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

a1jim"Ether you and I were typing at the same time ken or i did not see your post,I did not mean to basically repeat the same idea as your post".
lol.You must have been typing when I posted but it doesn't matter the point is the same,I hope we never end up in a situation like that, helplessly waiting to be saved from certain death by someone who frantically walks by us to save his/her own pet.


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

Jim - Here is the rub and something to let the store managers know--
If the animal is a service animal, it WILL be wearing something that denotes this. It is required and part of the training of the animal and the owner. Any animal, except registered service animals, that bites someone in a store - makes the owner and the store equally liable for a lawsuit. If that animal injures someone while running around, breaking something, or someone slips on something the animal leaves, the pet owner is liable to the store owner but the store is liable to the customers.

This can be very costly for the store owner - and their insurance may not cover that expense (they should check). I have pointed that out to several store owners and a sign magically appeared on doors telling their customers they could not bring their 'not registered service animals' onto the premises.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Kevin
My point is that having pets in a store can be invading someone elsies space if someone has a phobia or are alegic to dogs. I normally feel the same way you do. if it works for you and harms no one else ,go for it.
Even though I don't understand the need to have your dog with you every second of every day were ever you go.


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

Paul mine can do up to three digit math and sign her name with a pencil. We just refinanced our house and the title guy had her sign her name and give a paw print. He was a dog lover and said it was the damnedest thing. We also take her to feed stores and places like rural king and bass pro(where pets are welcomed), but would never think of taking her to a human food store. We never shop at Walmart so I don't know their rules but that could be a hazard and those people should be asked to leave.


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

I can see taking your pet to a Petsmart or Petco because they are pet stores and have clipping and vet services. They advertise to bring your pet - go for it. When I go there, I expect it. I was in a PetSmart the other day and my wife and I turned the corner and came face to face with a dog big enough to face down a horse. My wife gasped, the owner pulled up on the dog and said that his dog was friendly but was still muzzled and would not harm you. Still scared my wife significantly.

People stores - this is a liability and if a store permits it, I will choose to not shop there.


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

Dave,
There is no law requiring vests or any other identification or certification for service dogs, FYI. Before a legit trainer will train a dog they usually require a script from a doctor. Most likely laws will change in the next years, people are starting to abuse that fact and saying their dogs are service dogs. I have a service dog and I also train them. My dog literally saved my life, circumstance not important. As I saved his life and the life of our recently acquired dog from being put down.

With that, I still believe a dog is a dog and they have a place in society and that's not in a purse or cart.


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## HillbillyShooter (Feb 15, 2012)

Just two observations, and both at the risk of offending someone, but remember there is no constitutional right to live your life free of ever being offended (but, that's another subject): (1) my experience has been that people who never had children tend to go over board in treating their dogs like a child (at least children eventually leave home, but a dog is always glad to see you); and, (2) any dog that can be tucked into a purse or inside a coat is not really a dog but what my English Mastiff used to view as a snack.


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## woody1492 (Jul 31, 2010)

Pets for some people are concidered their children to fill a void if they are not able to have children themselves. They can help people cope and provide companionship. Our dog Faith sure had brought great joy to our lives. We do put a jacket on her when it is cold outside, but we don't take her everywhere we go. There were a lot of times where we felt bad for leaving her behind as she stood in at the door as we closed it behind us.

I don't think that humanizing an animal is such a bad thing as they can bring so much joy and give unconditional love without asking anything in return besides an occasional massage or scratch behind the ears. 
I don't think they should be used as a fashion statement and carried in hand bags.
woody1492


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## dsdufour (Dec 25, 2012)

I totally agree with you A1Jim


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

Wseand my area requires the service dog to have a service vest on. On another note I think we can agree that most dogs are better behaved then children. I know the dogs in my neighborhood are much better behaved then the hellions that live in the same household. I guess it's just a training issue


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

I have two Labs and a Carin Terrier, the Carin's were bread to kill varmints back in the day, so they served a purpose. IT is a small dog but fearless. Most of my Veteran friends prefer the Terrier over the labs because of its attitude. He's smart and loyal as hell and as good as any other dog out there. What we don't need is doggie profiling, its against the law. :0~

John, 
My Carin will tear the ankles off a Mastiff right before he become a snack. :0~


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## ClintSearl (Dec 8, 2011)

I like dogs. The smaller ones taste just like chicken. Nyuk nyuk


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

Bill - I know someone that trained a service animal, they put the animal in a vest. On the vest, it is posted that that (s)he is a service animal (or training to be), please do not bother me. Upon graduation, the dog was given a tag that clipped to the vest showing that is was a trained and registered service dog.

I have seen this for seeing eye dogs and for other services including fits. If the owner has a certified and registered service animal and they don't show the credentials outright, they are doing themselves and their animals a huge disservice. Once trained and on the job, the animal is not a pet and should not be petted by anybody except its owner. The animal is at work. Even my sister-in-law, who is terrified of dogs, is not bothered by a service animal wearing credentials and vest.

It may not be a federal law, and I believe that some states do require the vest and credentials, but it is the responsibility of the owner to help the animal do its job - and the vest and registration are key parts of that. Every person that I have met that had a service animal was extremely proud and very careful about their service animal. There is a serious amount of work and expense to make that animal a highly trained service animal and their owners respect that - and highly rely on that training. To just say that it is a service animal is BS.


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

Dave,
Its a federal law and no local laws can change that. I'm just putting out Info, I think the laws should be revised, but only because they are being abused. The only reason I put the vest on my dog is so I don't get questioned, even then people ask, "is that a Service dog."

Jim
Sorry for getting off subject. Unfortunately people are people and many think that they deserve something that maybe they don't. Do something that goes against the norm. I open my mouth sometimes when maybe I shouldn't, way too often. I have seen a lady that has a service dog in public a few times. It was obviously not trained so my wife torn her a new a** for it. She's my enforcer since I would have told her off with a little less restraint.


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## AngieO (Jul 9, 2012)

I like dogs too. Have had one as an adult. Loved her. Beautiful Sheltie. Had to give her to another family when we moved to an apartment and could't have pets.

Recently over the last week in our county there was some big deal about some animal cruelty. Me… TOTALLY against it. Completely agree that the man doing this needs to be punished. I don't have all the details. I just know it had to do with horses. Lots of horses. There was an article in our local paper… which I never read. Why? Well.. although my curiosity was definitely peaked… I was actually quite sickened by the posts that were made on Facebook about it. I'm ashamed at how many people got on there and made comments like "why are we spending all this time and money on the drug problems in Madison when we clearly have it under control? We should start focusing on these monsters that are abusing animals". Or things like "this guy should get the death penalty"... "Lock him outside with no food or shelter next week" (we have had temps that are negative here this week)

Ok… really?


> I mean… really


? Death penalty for the guy that is cruel to animals? But leniency on the guy that beat the crap out of an old lady? Or leniency for the girl who watched two other girls savagely kill another girl. Wow! Amazes me.

My ex-husband… his mom had two small lap dogs. LOVE those dogs. they are so stinkin cute and adorable. But she treats them like they are her kids. She treats them better than she does her son.

So…. .I guess you can tell what my opinion is. Wrong! Just wrong when people put dogs or any other animals above a person. 
That's it for my rambling today


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

Bill - I don't know if it is law or not - but should be. I thought it was but then again, so many things have changed that don't make any sense.

The use of service animals can be the difference of day and night for those that have them and sometimes life and death. The idea that there are people that say they have a service dog - just because they want to show off their pooch - should spend a few weeks in the shoes of someone that REQUIRES a service animal - just to get the idea of what it is all about - really.


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## knothead (Aug 4, 2007)

* In San Francisco they have passed a law stating that it's against the law to even call dogs pets…...;.*

These wouldn't be the very same LibRubes that also passed a law allowing a toddler to declare it'self transgender and select their desired bathroom would it?


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

The *PET* name change was in Santa Cruz, *NOT* San Francisco!

*San Francisco may be liberal but not as much as Santa Cruz!*

I live in San Jose somewhat in between San Francisco and Santa Cruz so I hear all the weird news from both places!

The dogs we have had were pets and though we loved them as family members they were dogs. The first pod le had a severe heart issue and it would have cost about $15,000 to get it resolved without any real guarantees. She had to be put down because the episodes of pain were becoming to frequent.

The second poodle lived a long healthy life and was a fantastic, well behaved, and smart dog. At her end she could no longer see, hard terrible arthritis, and could no longer navigate to get outside to relieve herself.

The last dog was an Australian long haired silky which was a former show dog champion and we kept him until he could no longer see or move on his own. Being a show dog he was never the pet the second poodle was as he was only really comfortable in his pet carrier. He spent about 80% of the time all the time the carrier was open and was actually uncomfortable and anxious when his carrier was closed and he was not in it. Because of him, I feel sorry for dogs raised to be show dogs because they never really get a chance to be a pet!


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

China eats their cats and dogs. I am not sure how they dress them up before serving them.


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

Dave,
I couldn't agree with you more, but I wish I wouldn't have to put the vest on so I wouldn't get asked so many questions. That being said, no state law can supersede the federal law and there is no cert other than one from a company that says it is certified through them. Really a cert means nothing since there is no federal law requiring it.

Put it this way if I went into a store and they asked for verification or a cert I would tell them they cannot ask those question and tell them they are breaking the law if they require me to show them one.

I have my dog so I can make it through the day, I don't go in public without him because society wouldn't be less safe.

I hope I am not being rude it is not my intention.

Jim, 
Sorry again.


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

Not at all Bill. I am glad that you do use the vest though. Keep in mind that the questions you answer help others to know the real aspects of what a service animal does for their owner, and how treasured they are.

I didn't know that the cert was just from the company. Even then, it is acknowledgement that your service animal has indeed undergone a serious level of training - what ever it is.

For the others that want to take their mutts to the grocery store just because it is cute, tough, leave the critter home. If you are walking the critter, tie it up outside in a place that patrons don't have to step around it and then go in the store - my opinion.

Jim - I am sorry if I got off topic as well. My day for ranting as well - sorry


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

I get a little passionate sometimes, especially when it comes to Service Dogs and their handlers. I can't stop myself.

There are laws that protect the dogs, probably more then the handlers. So it is very important that you get them registered. There is a US Registry and tags and all that good stuff.

This is Zeb my Mutt the legs in the back ground are not mine though…










Rant done


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

What I was getting at is that there are a whole lot more important things for me to worry about in this world other then people taking their dogs into stores, to me that's petty, I tend to ignore these type of things, but that's just me.


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## TerryDowning (Aug 8, 2012)

I have yet to see a "service dog" in one of these.










These things are just annoying and I hate seeing them at the mall or walmart or the grocery store. Leave your PET at home, it's not a real child.


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## 111 (Sep 2, 2013)

The funny thing is that people think other people should live the way they want them to.
We only have 1 life, and nobody should dictate how somebody else should live. It's bad enough that we have to live by society's rules, but that's just how it is. There are a lot of things in this world I don't like, for instance kids that put those big hole rings in their ears. I don't tell them they shouldn't, it's their life. Just like if someone puts their damn dog in a stroller, who am I to tell them they shouldn't, it's their life. Freedom, that's the USA.
Just don't tread on me and do whatever the hell you want…


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

I will finish my rant with this -

Your animal is fine for you (service animals are exempt from this), animals do not belong in stores that are not pet stores. I do not like having to watch the floor for pet urinating or marking or other treasures (like I did at the Petsmart). I do not want to try out a sofa that has someone else's pet fur on it. If I wanted a pet, I would have one, did for many years, now I have a grandcat. If I were allergic, I would be even more upset. It is bad enough to be walking through a store and have someone sneeze on you. If you have a pet, keep it yours. If it bites anyone in a public place, you and the store could be liable for damages.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Kevin
I think as far as I'm concerned I may just be to judgemental re this dog situation ,but on the other hand even though this is a space that the public is allowed in It's space I'm in too so why do I have to suffer the ill effects that David points out when I 'm just trying to buy groceries ? As far as what the person looks like or what a person does in their own space I could care less they can have their home covered with dog hair,urine saturated carpet and eat out out of the same dish as there dog as far as I'm concerned, not that I think all people who have dogs do those things. In away it's like being in a space that people who smoke when you don't want to be smelling or inhaling smoke ,but you have no choice because someone else has decided to pollute the space your in and you have no say about what their doing.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

Lighten up *Kevin* this is supposed to be friendly discussion among people with common interests!


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## 111 (Sep 2, 2013)

Lighten up? What I say that wasn't friendly? I'm not arguing with anybody.

Jim, I agree.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*Sorry Kevin, wrong forum and the wrong LJ.*

Too many tabs to too many forums open at one time!


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## SpindleMaker (Sep 20, 2013)

On the rear widow of my wife's car is a bumper sticker that reads, "My Mastiff is smarter than your honor student!"

And we have proof. Most smart dogs test out at about the three-year old human level of vocabulary, problem solving skills, etc. Loki was tested by Central Washington University at the early six-year old level. For instance, his understanding of human vocabulary is nearly 300 words. We watch carefully what we say around him. He tends to take things literally.

At 175lbs he will not fit in anyone's purse. Nor will he be mistaken for anything else other than a very large dog prone to be protective of his land and people.

But do not try to tell my wife that he is only a pet. She is convinced that he is a person trapped inside of a dog suit. Since Loki is a fully engaged and valuable staff member of her yarn and fabric store, I am often inclined to agree.


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## SpindleMaker (Sep 20, 2013)

On the rear widow of my wife's car is a bumper sticker that reads, "My Mastiff is smarter than your honor student!"

And we have proof. Most smart dogs test out at about the three-year old human level of vocabulary, problem solving skills, etc. Loki was tested by Central Washington University at the early six-year old level. For instance, his understanding of human vocabulary is nearly 300 words. We watch carefully what we say around him. He tends to take things literally.

At 175lbs he will not fit in anyone's purse. Nor will he be mistaken for anything else other than a very large dog prone to be protective of his land and people.

But do not try to tell my wife that he is only a pet. She is convinced that he is a person trapped inside of a dog suit. Since Loki is a fully engaged and valuable staff member of her yarn and fabric store, I am often inclined to agree.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*SpindleMaker*, I believe it as I had a poodle that seemed to understand everything we talked about. We had to be carefulwhen we talked about vacation trips and boarding or going to the vet. The only thing that bothered her were firecrackers as she would get totally disoriented and walk out of our yard without realizing that she had done that or where she was.


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## None999 (Jun 1, 2012)

I'm a dog person and I don't get wrapped up about seeing a dog in a store or a restaurant, service dog or not. I got used to it in Germany but then, I'm a dog person. I think in most cases, it should be up to the business owner. But being a dog person, I can't abide an ill-mannered dog. If yours can't behave and hold its business until an appropriate time and place, it needs to stay in places where that isn't a problem…like home or a dog park.

The kind of dog person I am not, is one who dresses them up or treats them like furry people. The only "clothing" I put on a dog is functional gear like a a collar, a neoprene water vest, protective (not cutesy) booties, and the like. They're dogs. They have dog brains, dog tendencies, dog motives, and dog psychology. They need structure and leadership every bit as much as they need affection and food. Treating them like people can cause stress, behavioral problems, and general unhappiness…for both the dog and the owner.

About service dogs: watching a happy, well-trained service dog do its thing makes me smile…just like the kick I get out of watching sled dogs, hunting dogs, herding dogs, K9 cops…


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## lanwater (May 14, 2010)

I agree Jim. I love animals. but some people get carried away a bit.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Take a chill pill my friend.


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## 111 (Sep 2, 2013)

Que-Oldnovice


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

You go Mark, 
Does it get any better then someone complaining about others that complain. I think you fit right in with this conversation.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Mark
Old Grouchies hmmmm,I'm sure your to busy to notice but your Request has been fulfilled "*Blocked*" 
Have a wonderful day ,keep on "Mawing"

BTW this is the coffee lounge AKA non woodworking section of LJs


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## oldretiredjim (Nov 14, 2011)

Jim - while you are entertaining us with this subject how about adding a horse discussion. Personally, I think we should eat them when there are too many. Free range, good muscle structure, kind of a cross between cattle and elk. Just a suggestion. I had dog in Vietnam and it wasn't bad either.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Oldretired
Thank you for your service to our country.
Boy oh boy you really want to mix it up  eat horsies&dogs ? I guess horses have been eaten in America and through out the world, but there's a long list of animals that people consider food world wide from gerbils-snakes .


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

Who cares? As long as it's not a restaurant or grocery store, no one cares if you bring dogs into stores here. If you have an unruly dog, don't bring it in. Any time I go to Home Depot, I typically see at least 2 or 3 dogs in there. This goes for everything from a little rat dog (not a dog if it's smaller than a microwave), to a Tibetan mastiff. Some stores have a sign to leave them outside, and everyone obliges. 95% of stores also put out a water dish and occasionally some treats for dogs as well.

Different areas of the countries have different cultures.

For the record, I don't have a dog. I've got 2 fat cats that stay indoors all the time.

And I have no problems with eating horses, or using them after they die in things like glue/dogfood/whatever.


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

Wow … some thread!

We have a small yorkie as our "only kid".

We don't dress him up or walk him in a stroller, but … I think you need to consider the possibility of additional human motivations.

Most of us ENJOY being kind or doing something nice.
Most of us ENJOY caring for another being, especially one that depends on us.

Coddling a small dog that would die in the modern world without you gives you an additional purpose. It provides satisfaction and warmth, knowing that this creature trust you implicitly and you are everything to it.

Also, dogs are among a very small number of beings on this planet that we can closely relate. In many ways we see ourselves in them. They get excited to see us, or learn phrases that let us have fun interacting with them. Oftentimes they sense when we're not well and seem to want to fix it.

It's funny that you did this thread Jim, because coincidentally I had a nightmare last night that some dog came up to me and led me back through my (crazy) tracks in a strange world only to find MY dog, Joey, injured, cold and scared in a train tunnel. I can still remember the deep sorrow at seeing him in that state, combined with the relief of saving him and the exact moment that he realized it was me and he was finally safe!

Strange, huh?


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

well ill jump in here for a minute, and i really dont care what anybody else has to say about what i write, i love all animals and believe God put them on this earth for us to righteously take care of, and i also think we should respect the feelings of others, i believe service dogs should be where there master is, for them to do there duty, if someone wants to put there dog in a baby stroller, more power to them, its there right, but i would not do that to my dog, they deserve more respect then that, and even though they are small, there able to walk on there own, men have taken breeds of dogs and created some mixtures that are just down right wrong, but , i say respect the animal for the purpose it was created for, so this was fun, good post jim, always nice to be able to chat about our furry friends, so ive said all im going to say here, need to get the stove going in the shop, its still pretty chilly here…


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Those are all good points ,that's what a pet is all about enjoying their company and vice versa . As I have said before I like dogs(wish I had room for one) I just feel there are places that appropriate to take dogs and places that are not.
I'm glad you found your pooch and that he was okay.


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## DanielP (Mar 21, 2013)

Last summer a young women came in to a Lowes with two Pit bulls (on leashes). No way could she have controlled them if they went after someone. I watched as management stopped her just inside the door.

So the question becomes where is the line drawn?

DanP


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

IMO, only *service dogs* should be allowed in ANY store or public building.

My son works at BB, big electronics store, and management does not want to turn off the customer so they do not ask people with dogs, parakeets, or lizards to leave. My son has seen dogs relieve themselves on cartons of products that can now no longer be sold as new products, yet he cannot tell them to leave so they are not offended!


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

Dan,so…pit bulls are dangerous? Huh? Helluva generalization.


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

Btw, hopefully my previous opinion didn't read as causing some of not caring,etc. what I was trying to do was to explain why dogs are so important to so many.


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

I think Todd is talking about Jim, don't tell him. ;~)


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

I agree, but I also see people who 'humanize' animals this way as having some need that needs fulfilling. If that's the case better that than jack daniels I'd say. As long as the animal is cared for, and in most cases their over cared for then it's therapeutic for the person. I just let it go. And yes the effort should be spent on a human instead of a dog but we do lots of things to comfort ourselves. The dog is just another means for some.


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## DanielP (Mar 21, 2013)

Todd, Sorry for the perceived generalization. Let me put it in a more specific term. Yes, absolutely, Pit Bulls are very dangerous. And not only that, they negatively affect strangers, decent people who are just out enjoying themselves or going for a peaceful walk, who are terrified by the reputation and appearance of these creatures.

For the record, I have two cats, and have had many lovable dogs throughout my life.

DanP


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## DanielP (Mar 21, 2013)

Well Todd, I think your comment is ugly and unacceptable. For myself and the people around me, we just don't have that kind of thinking.

You must think it as clever in that for me too argue it (your statement) it would place you on the good side and me on the bad side of a polarizing issue. (from the point of view of the reader). So even when my superior logic pommels you into the proverbial ground, you would still be perceived as the winner. (good guy)

Oh well,

DanP


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

Todd, that was completely uncalled for and a irrelevant comparison.


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

GOOD IDEA HERE,,,what if i dress up like a god, and dress my dog to look like me…....boy would i get mad if he got a date and i had to follow through as the dog, but think of it…lol i could lay on the rug and fart silently, and everyone woulf blame the human..well im not sure if that would work out….i could go chase cats….just sayin there is alot a dog can do and get away with…


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

Unfair comparison by a long shot Todd!

We have had so many Pit Bull attacks in the bay area that people are actually terrified of any dog that even looks like a pit bull. Two people in SF were attacked and killed while going into their apartments which were near the apartment of the owners. It took several years of trials to convict one of the owners and the other owners, a couple, are serving time in jail as they watched the attack without stopping it.

A 5 year old was bitten about the head so badly he will need multiple plastic surgeries and he is still going to be living with the nightmares about dogs.

A Rhodesian Ridgeback (not a small dog) was killed by two Pit Bulls while their owners were walking their respective dogs in Golden Gate Park. The owner of the Pit Bulls could not contain his animals and both Pit Bulls were put down by court order as this was not their first offense.

I could go on with at least another dozen examples that all involved Pit Bulls and while the other breeds may attack/bite they are not as vicious of an attack as a pit bull as, after all, that is what they are bred to do.


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## longgone (May 5, 2009)

Here is the new breed of dog that is being bred especially for taking to WallyWorld (WalMart)
It is crossbred from a typical Walmart shopper and the dogs that roam the store


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Even if it was in a stroller with a dress on I never would have recognised that as a dog LOL


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

I think you were misinformed, when you spend more then $100.00 at Walmart, you get one for free and it comes with it's own greeter.


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