# Moving to a new basement shop - Ideas welcomed



## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

In the next month ill be moving into a new house and into a new shop space that is a completely unfinished basement. Its got good height ceilings at around 8.5' high but aside from that there is nothing down there. Im talking no electrical no nothing. It does have the hot water furnace, the air handler for the central AC and the water filtration system. Access is a Bilko door from the exterior and a set of interior stairs.

Now ive read a bunch of threads in regard to the pros and cons of a basement shop. In some instances its good, in others, its not so good. Coming from an existing basement shop I like how I can pop in and out and not be out of earshot of the wife or my son. It stays relatively climate controlled as well. All good things.

So I come here to pose to you guys, if you had a basement shop, what kind of things would you implement to make it a good functional space for a hybrid style of woodworking? Id like to build out this shop once and do it right the first time even if it takes me a year to do. Ive got a plan of adding a dedicated 100 amp panel that can be locked out when im not there to avoid curious children running tablesaws and the like.

So in your dream shop in the basement how would you build it out? Im talking lights, electrical, dust collection, air filtration, flooring, noise reduction, and storage. Lets hear it gang!


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

I'd layout the space with what tools and machines I have (+ what I plan on getting in the future) to maximize the use of the space and ease the work flow through the shop. keeping the noise and dust in the basement would be a high priority too. My shop is separated from my house and at times gets pretty dusty, if in the house, I couldn't let that happen with the fear of mitigation into the rest of the house which would not be tolerated by several others. Getting bigger projects as well as your machines (initially) into and out of the shop should be a consideration as well. Figure out how to do it and what your limitations are.


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## theoldfart (Sep 9, 2011)

Sef, biggest issue for me is an uneven floor. I'd like to level mine and install a wooden one like Smitty's. Dropped planes and chisels would be less catastrophic. The only other improvement would be to somehow get my DC outside and baffled.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Good thoughts there guys. As far as machinery is concerned im pretty well set on what ive got. Jointer, planer, cabinet saw, drill press, band saw, router table, HF dust collector, and an air filtration jammy. Outside of that I probably don't see myself gaining any new big gear besides the running joke of a work bench .

The house is newer (1988) so the floor seemed to be fairly level but I really wont know until I get in there to check it out again but definitely something to consider.

Im tentatively thinking about leaving the majority of my gear in the garage until I square some things up and start building out the shop.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

The floor is going to be sloped all towards a drain. So, be aware of that.

I would put in at least x2 20amp 110v circuits and a 220v circuit. Lots of outlets.

Lots of light. On their own separate circuit from the other tools. I blow my breaker all the time, and it leaves me in the dark when I have my garage door down.

I would rig up a moveable curtain sort of like in doctor's offices/hospitals for a finishing booth. Out of the way when not needed, but protects everything when you want it to.

Paint all your walls, floors, and ceilings first thing or you will never get around to doing it because you have to work around the machines.

If you have heat/AC returns in the basement, close them off so you don't send dust to the rest of the house.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

sound proof the ceiling.


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

Definitely soundproof the ceiling like Don said. Our projector and my stereo are downstairs, and the ceiling is only drop down tile with no insulation behind it, and you can pretty easily hear what's playing in the basement when you're upstairs.

Other thing I'd like is a large basin sink… tool restorations and what not


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## Racer2007 (Jan 13, 2011)

I would find a way to seperate the mech. systems from the shop area to prevent dust and fumes from entering the rest of the house. Keep it from going into the Central Air system. And as Don said Soundproof the ceiling as much as possiable.


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

> I would find a way to seperate the mech. systems from the shop area to prevent dust and fumes from entering the rest of the house. Keep it from going into the Central Air system.
> 
> - Richard


I 100% agree there too… given my old shop was the spare bedroom where my heat/ac unit was, and had the only return vent to it…


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## theoldfart (Sep 9, 2011)

My mech and laundry are isolated from the rest of the shop. Also +1 on sound proofing, it's on my todo list.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

Having had a basement workshop for years now, here is what I would do.

Paint the walls white. Will brighten the place immensely and you won't feel like you are working in a cavern.

Seal and paint the concrete floor. Once the machines and tools are in you won't get a chance.

Provide (or allow for) three separate electrical circuits. One for lighting, one for machines, and a third for 3-phase 220 volts. Here is why. When a machine trips a circuit breaker you won't be standing there in the darkness trying to fix things. The 3-phase 220 circuit is to allow for the addition of 3-phase industrial used machines in the future. I keep up with the used tool auctions and very nice and clean 3-phase light industrial saws, planers, etc are going dirt cheap because these are most often bought by home shop people, not industrial shops, and so few home shop people are equipped to handle 3-phase. On this circuit I would allow for one 3-phase converter to run all 3-phase machines - one at a time, of course!

Good lighting is paramount of course. You might want to see if you might be able to get a bunch of fluorescent fixtures from a building that is being renovated or torn down. Just make sure they are 115 volts. I was able to light my entire shop this way for free. Well, almost free. When I got the lights home I found they were all set up to run on 440 volts! I had to replace all of the ballasts. Even so, I saved money.

And one last thing. I went to the trouble to be able to unplug all of my lights. The reason why is under Georgia real estate law anything that is hard wired to the house or nailed or glued to the house goes with the house when sold. If it is screwed in or plugged in, it is considered removable and does not go with the sale and can be taken with the seller.

. . . . the little things you learn over the nearly 60 years of having a basement shop!

Planeman


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## hairy (Sep 23, 2008)

You can keep sawdust from getting in the living space, but it takes effort. I have 2 air cleaners running, use dust collection as much as possible, and clean up as I go.

If you have the old time steps like I have, treads and stringers , make sure they can handle the weight. I put in extra supports under the stringers and added screws to the nails securing the treads.

I keep the really loud and dusty tools in the garage.


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## widdle (Mar 10, 2010)

Good call not to bring everything in, and do the work first…If water is no issue , I'd ply the walls and throw cdx on the floor and call it good..


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## ToddJB (Jul 26, 2012)

Plan your space with your machines here.
Then run your electrical according to where your machines will ideally be. 
Block off HW tank and furnace etc. Maybe even make another dedicated small room for Compressor and DC
Insulate and soundproof ceiling. 
Put something up on the walls, ply or osb on the walls.
Move in.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

I should throw in heating and air conditioning. Usually basements are not heated but are relatively warm in the winter and cool in the summer due to their location. I opened up some heating pipes on the ceiling above with a few vents added. This helped. And the air conditioning reduced the humidity (I live in Atlanta, GA where you bathe in the humidity in the summer) to where I have *virtually no rust problem* . . . with a little help from Mr. WD-40. And when I finally had to replace the old central air conditioner I bought additional capacity and had the installers add a few more vents.

Planeman


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Solid stuff being thrown around.

Jmart - There's no floor drains down there and water does not seem to be an issue. No sump pump and no evidence of any water infiltration. I do believe that there are curtain / footing drains on the property.

Lighting will definitely come off of jobs sites. Being a demolition contractor has its perks. Most likely ill grab some t8's. Possibly can lights depending on the voltage but most I see are 277.

White paint will be a must. I don't want a dungeon.

How would you guys sound proof? I know it can and will be expensive. Ive thought about using unfaced batts, homosote, drywall on hat channel, spray foam, mineral wool … the options seems almost endless. Again, being a demolition contractor I can scavange a lot of stuff off of jobs. Insulation by the dumpster load goes out.

Widdle - cdx on the floor … vapor barrier first? 6 mil? on sleepers? dow board?

Planeman - im not sure how much service I have coming into the house. Im assuming its 200 amps worth but currently theres a 100 am panel and a 60 amp subpanel for a generator. With the power being underground I don't really want to have to trench up the yard to pull more wire and install a larger conduit if I can avoid it. The existing 100 am main is full with no breaker slots open. Maybe I can branch off a circuit out of the main panel for the lighting and keep all the tools and receptacles on the shops sub panel?

Hairy - Like you, I typically run my planer (sir snipesalot) outside and most likely ill keep it that way. The bad boy screams.

Thanks for all the replies gang.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Seal the concrete and finish it however you wish, before moving anything down there. I'd consider the blandex-over-plastic square tiles made for basements if I were doing it. I'll find the product if search fu fails you, but the advantage is not raising the floor much while offering some protection should there be water.

Then I'd work lighting between the joists, on a single circuit as planeman suggests.

After that, good suggestions above for venting and electrical layouts before bringing stuff in.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

No floor drains? Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen a basement without drains.


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## ToddJB (Jul 26, 2012)

Insulation - I put unfaced in the joists (after all electrical and everything else is done. Then I drywalled, if it were a shop, I might use OSB or something else. Noise from bottom to top will be cut donw dramatically by just doing this. But when in the basement you will still hear plenty of foot steps. If you want to take it a step more you could put up another layer with construction adhesive overlapping the seams from the previous layer.


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## TheWoodenOyster (Feb 6, 2013)

I'm down in Texas and there are really no basements down here, just tornado shelters. So, I don't know much about basements on the whole, but I have thought about one thing… It seems like ventilation and dust collection could be a real issue. I just had to move out of a great shop that had a garage door at either end, so if they were both opened, it basically created a wind tunnel, so even on windless days the air would be 99% exchanged every 2 minutes or so. It was awesome for finishing, sanding, and running my tablesaw with my old crappy blades that I never cleaned . I assume that there is really no way to get air into multiple sides of the shop, unless you pull it from the house, which would obviously be a gigantic waste of conditioned air. I think If I were you, air exchange might be one of the first things I would address. Shop filters work alright, as do dust collectors, but nothing replaces exhausting crappy air outside. Not sure how to do it in the particular space, but air exchange in general is something that I would plan for.

Disclaimer: This might all be ridiculous, as I have never worked in a basement shop. It just seems to me like this could be a big factor in how enjoyable it is to be in a basement shop.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Im going off memory here but id give it 80% that there are no floor drains. There's a possibility that there is one by the hot water boiler but that would be out of the way of any equipment of mine. FWIW - there are no floor drains in my current homes basement.

Oyster - I hear what youre sayin. There's a couple of small basement windows that I can open along with the hatchway and ivee thought about venting the DC directly outside but id need to replace the displaced air from somewhere. That will equal either loss of heat or loss of cool air. Luckily im more of a handplane/scraper guy than a sanding guy, my jointer and tablesaw have decent dust collection and honestly I don't do enough real woodworking to make huge dust clouds but its something that I need to really think about.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

definitely do something with the floor. I really wish I had sealed and painted mine. A wood floor like Smitty's would have been ideal, but that wasn't in the cards. Its to late now. Take your time and decide what you want to do. Once its full it's pretty much to late.


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## ToddJB (Jul 26, 2012)

I'd also go for canned lights in between joists instead of hanging florescents


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

the problem with lights between the joist is I think it will hurt the sound proofing. I could be corrected, but it seems like the lights just allow to much sound through.

For sound proofing, I'd insulate and get the sound proofing sheetrock. It didn't used to be that expensive, and if the insulation is free, you're off to a good start.


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## ToddJB (Jul 26, 2012)

Canned lights come in two categories, those that can be insulated around, and those that cannot. If going cans, get the cans that can.

Sound proofing sheetrock was super expensive in comparison when I priced it out for my basement, and I believe you still have to do two layers as I described above. But before I would do all of that, I would put a layer up and see if you're happy with the sound from the basement to the upstairs, first. I think the second layer would only dramatically help with the sound from the upstairs to the basement (ie foot steps and such)


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Good thought Don. I just noticed that weve got about 1000 sqft of 1/2" Armaflex sheet insulation in the shop. Its like a closed cell foam in sheet form. I wonder if I cut that down and adhered it to the bottom of the subfloor in between the joists if it would help with sound. Looks like someone over ordered.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

I would just go to the local big box and buy a ton of the 4 ft fluorescent shop lights. I think I got mine for $20 each, plus bulbs. Cheap and lots of light.


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## BigRedKnothead (Dec 21, 2012)

I rolled sealcoat on my cinder block walls before I sprayed white paint. I do notice a difference in moisture from the walls.

Can lights would be nice. But man, that's a heckuva lot more costly than reclaimed t8s.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

Planeman - im not sure how much service I have coming into the house. Im assuming its 200 amps worth but currently theres a 100 am panel and a 60 amp subpanel for a generator. With the power being underground I don't really want to have to trench up the yard to pull more wire and install a larger conduit if I can avoid it. The existing 100 am main is full with no breaker slots open. Maybe I can branch off a circuit out of the main panel for the lighting and keep all the tools and receptacles on the shops sub panel?

What I did was locate 110V circuits where the usage was minimal and tapped off of these for lights and 110V machines, separate circuits though. For 220V I tapped off the stove circuit. I run my table saw, planer and two welders off this circuit. In 30 years no problems. I wish I had allowed for 3-phase, but I'm an old man of 74 now and have all of the tools I need plus some. The 3-phase is for young guys who are still collecting machines.

Planeman


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Thanks for the input Planeman. Certainly something to consider. 3 phase machines do come cheap around these parts.


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## john2005 (Jun 8, 2012)

Hey did anybody mention soundproof the ceiling??? Maybe a separate, insulated room for compressor and dust collector. Something I wish I had done in my non-basement shop.


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## ToddJB (Jul 26, 2012)

Having the electrical company in my neck of the woods run 3 phase is a fortune. VFD's and rotary converts are much more economical for a home shop.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

don't forget the warning light so you can hide if the cops show up!!


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

While we are on the subject of 3-phase . . .

For those of you who don't know, 3-phase is usually only available in industrial and some commercial areas. It is rarely available in residential areas as it is designed to aid heavy electric motors in running more efficiently. As ToddJB said, phase converters, which are available as two types, rotary and VFD, are what home owners would use to achieve 3-phase (really an imitation that will run a 3-phase motor). Solid state phase converters have come down in price lately. But be aware that you must carefully select the type and size to match your use. I am sure some others here would me more conversant on the subject than I am.

Planeman


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

I been thinking that theres probably enough space next to the furnace to stash the dust collector and i think it would almost under the garage. Walling it off and adding a man door for access would be kinda sweet.

I hope the days of cops showing up to the house are long since over. Its been about 15 years since i last lived in this town hopefully theres been enough turnover in the force they wont know me anymore.


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Is getting sheet goods and longer boards in going to be possible? What about getting larger projects out? I guess I don't know what a Bilko door is.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Bilco


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## theoldfart (Sep 9, 2011)

Dust collector….Furnace…Ignition source…...BAD IDEA !!

Ask any mid westerner about silo dust and BOOM


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## Racer2007 (Jan 13, 2011)

Yep Silo dust does go BOOM quite often even with new laws about controlling it , also Flour Mills have the same problem. Not sure if the stuff from a tablesaw or planer would do it but if you have a wide sander with fine paper it sure could cause an issue.


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## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)

If you're gonna paint or varnish down there, have a way to VENTILATE the air to the outside. Dont want anyone upstairs getting sick now do we ?


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Most likely painting will be very very minimal and im partial to waterborne paint versus oil based. Most of my finishing is shellac. If a large project needs to be finished with something stinky ill always take it into the garage but I appreciate the tips fellas.

Also, dust collector away from ignition sources. Roger that.


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## ToddJB (Jul 26, 2012)

Silo Dust, yep. The reason I suggested enclosing HW tank and Furnace in one room and DC and Compressor in the other.


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## nicksmurf111 (Jun 6, 2014)

I don't care for soundproofing. An unfinished basement is an unfinished basement and has that added flexibility of being able to get into the floor joists whenever you want. As soon as your finish it, your stuck and have to make holes for any additions or repairs. If you have the money for a finished basement…build a garage.

I like CFL bulbs. Porcelain fixtures are cheep and easy to place. Much cheeper than t8 fixtures. Stagger the 23 watt CFL bulbs to give the room enough light, then put lamps at your work areas. I have a lamp for each piece, or each pair, of equipment.

Even if you have good temperature control, if you live in a damp region you need to dehumidify also. I have a old 15 quart dehumidifier that draws 3 amps and has been running about 24-7 through the summer. I should get a bigger dehumidifier and get the waterproofing done already, but it works VERY well. You may need to humidify in the winter, so don't forget to unplug the dehumidifier once the air drys out. Also, plumb the dehumidifier pan with some pvc to your floor drain, then you won't have to worry about draining it manually or knocking/rolling/smashing a hose.

I have a bunch of 220v single phase motors on my machines, so I need at least 3 20 amp plugs for the woodshop, another for the air compressor (it's dedicated, who knows when it's going to turn on when running another machine), and a 30 or 50 amp for the welders (I have a smaller mig, but just picked up an old stick welder too). I placed the welder receptacle near the window.


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## BentheViking (May 19, 2011)

one of my biggest dilemmas would be what to do with the walls and ceiling in terms of wall coverings? I guess it'd depend on whats there. It sounds like the ceiling is standard joists of the first floor and the walls are standard concrete block. I like having sheetrocked walls, but i wouldn't frame or shim it out so you could cover it, i guess the white wall paint is a good idea. I think I'd look into insulating the ceiling and then depending on how much junk you have in between the joists I'd sheetrock it or do an acoustical ceiling so its a smooth surface.

Floors I'd figure out exactly how much you want to spend. Assuming not much I'd get either horse mats or some other sort of small movable foam mats to use by a bench and tools.


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## nicksmurf111 (Jun 6, 2014)

That reminds me…My brother-in-law and I found truck mats (for some kind of delivery truck) in a dumpster once. They were similar to the horse mats, really thick. They worked really well in his parent's basement and actually added some insulation to the floor. If I could get some for free again, I'm sure I'd put them to use.


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## Hammerthumb (Dec 28, 2012)

Stef - just a few thoughts about the floor. If you plan on some type of wood or plywood for the flooring, do a couple of calcium chloride tests, or find someone with a concrete humidity meter to check how much moisture is expiring out of the concrete. Basements can see a lot of hydostatic pressure and can expire too much moisture for certain types of floor systems. If you find that your measurements are less than 3-4lbs (calcium chloride test), it should be safe for a plywood system, but I would still treat the concrete with a vapor retarder and use a 6mil visqueen under a sleeper system. I do not recommend a solid wood product in a basement. None of the hardwood flooring manufactures would warranty a solid wood product in that environment.


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## 489tad (Feb 26, 2010)

I think everyone has touched on great ideas. does the home have a gas fired furnace? I painted a basement floor with oil base and the fumes coated the ignitor and when the furnace fired it cracked. Water base concrete and porch paint. floors and walls. I just read what Paul wrote, he is dialed in.
No one mentioned the Farrah Fawcett poster?
Good luck!!


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## ksSlim (Jun 27, 2010)

Its possible to mount dust collector exterior to the basement, enclosed in a smallish shed or dog house.
Bring ducting in thru access window hole. 
I helped a friend build his dust shed and run ducting overhead in his basement shop.
I only do hand work in our basement, run to the cold a$$ garage when TS or other noisey/dusty tools are called for.Basement is more climate controlled in winter and summer.

+1 on sealing and white paint.


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## nicksmurf111 (Jun 6, 2014)

I wish my old house had insulation under the slab! I have enough heat in my basement, but the slab is really cold if you go down to do something without shoes on.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Dan - its an oil fired hot water furnace. Baseboard heat. Latex paint … agreed. Farrah, also agreed lol.

Slim - ive thought about putting one outside in a little Rubbermaid shed or something but we'll have to see if I can find a suitable spot for it. Where I would like to bring it in would end up being in the driveway or on the porch. It would be a hell of a run from the other side of the basement.

Im getting pretty antsy without a functional shop. That half hour of tinkering after work really helps ease the after work crankys.


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## theoldfart (Sep 9, 2011)

Stef, come on up to my shop. You can finish my bench even!!!


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

Surely If your basement does not have electricity it should not need sound proofing .Just my 2 cents LOL Alistair


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## G5Flyr (Aug 27, 2013)

Everybody has given great ideas. My wife and I finished our basement in 2012. Keeping in mind that I don't have the stationary machines that you have here is what I did in my shop:

1. Put electrical outlets at chest height. It's easier than bending over. If you are going to have cabinets and counter top space you will want to be able to plug in battery chargers, etc. Space them so that your power cords are always within reach of one. With the exception of my chop saw and bench grinder all of my power tools are handheld (typically 6' cords). I spaced my outlets at 8 feet.

2. If you have a main assembly bench think about putting an electrical outlet in the ceiling above it. I don't have a table saw so the main work bench is central in my shop. I have two outlets in the ceiling above it. I could have gotten away with just one but I've always been accused of overkill. This will be a great way to keep your hand held tool cords out of the way while you are working (think handheld router on the bench). NOTE: It also keeps the ironing cord out of the way in the laundry room. If you are planning a laundry room in the basement pick a good spot for the ironing board and put an outlet above it. Your wife will love you for it.

3. Regardless of your dust collection system try to install an exhaust fan that vents to the outside of the house. Just like the outlets in the ceiling, overkill is a good thing. I installed a Panasonic fan. I have a 12'x18' shop. With the door closed this bad boy will suck a kleenex from under the door. Before applying poly top coats and shellac I always give the shop a good vacuuming with the fan running. It pulls the particulate matter out of the air. Smelly solvents, etc don't find their way upstairs either.

4. As for soundproofing I used a material that is a thick rubber matting and tacked it to the joists above before covering with drywall. It's OK but not great.

5. I sealed and painted the floor. After a month the paint started to chip off in the spots where I slid stuff around. Maybe I didn't do it right. I think a wood floor or a thick clear sealant is a better idea.

6. As for painting the walls and ceilings I would definitely do that. Ceiling should definitely be white. I eventually painted my walls a light taupe color. White walls with the neon tubes were a little too harsh for my eyes and I got headaches.

I will try to post some pix of my shop and let you know when I do. Good luck and enjoy your new shop!


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## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

Don't build anything so big that it won't fit up the stairs. Don't ask how I know this.


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## nicksmurf111 (Jun 6, 2014)

Just a moment ago I tried sticking a 12 foot board down the steps. I gave up and rough cut it outside. It would have fit through the window, but it would still have been hard to set down anywhere much.


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## theoldfart (Sep 9, 2011)

Lew, a second similar rule:
Don't do a bench slab glue up that's too heavy to get up the stairs, guess how I know this?


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