# 100% Hand Tools or Mix it Up ?



## TDog (Apr 17, 2012)

I am considering selling all my power tools except for my skill saw and table saw and going almost completely with high quality hand tools to force myself to learn and improve on hand tool work to develop a business of hand made heirloom quality furniture…after much trial and error, learning, learning, and more learning and more trial and error. With our economy, dumping my power tools seems tough to do for the cost end of the hourly work.

So what do you guys and gals here on lumberjocks feel about the hand tool work and satisfaction furniture and project making gives for pieces to be passed down family to family versus the time saving efficiency of more power tool use to save on hourly labor time and provide a more competitive price in our current economy?

What do you here at lumberjocks feel about hand tool traditional joinery furniture making and power tool use?

Debating on going the mostly hand tool route and selling the "ranch" of power tools….


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## Marc5 (Apr 1, 2009)

This very personal and I am sure you will get a ton of responses going both ways. My father was a carpenter / furniture maker that worked in a mill as a pattern maker. He taught me most of what I know about this field and he was a staunch power tool user. He had knowledge and all of the necessary hand tools to build without power but choose not. When he taught me how to use a hand plane and handsaw he said the only reason you need to know this is just in case your project exceeds your tool capacity.

I am currently working on a jewelry box for my wife that is completely done with hand tools and I will be starting a dining room table that will be built with the aid of power. So for me it is a blend of both. Using hand tools has improved my skills as a wood worker even in the use of power tools. I guess it is knowing the processes and mastering the tools either powered or not.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

I think it's great to work with hand tools.

My favorite saw is a "Pony" pull saw by Jorgensen.
BUT, if I'm in a hurry, I don't have any problem using a power tool.
Everything has its place.

You can get a superior smooth surface with a hand plane much faster than with sandpaper, for instance.

I do things with a chisel I don't know how I would ever do with a power tool.

But I'd hate to think I had to rip 200 board feet of oak with a hand saw. That would be crazy.


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## newwoodbutcher (Aug 6, 2010)

I'm thinking many would be custom woodworking businesses are struggling to copmpete against low cost competition. It seems to me that the only people who would pay extra money for "truly hand crafted" furniture are the very rich (think 1%) or woodworkers (seldom buy). My way of thinking is that you must be able to improve your productivity to compete. Seems like 100% hand tool work is definitely going in the wrong direction. IMHO


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## TedW (May 6, 2012)

Unless you already have a market, I think ditching most of your power tools would be a bad business decision. Get the market first, then decided if you want to commit to it. If you can't get the market, you have your power tools to fall back on.


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## bent (May 9, 2008)

have you ever gotten a commission and the buyer asked you to only use hand tools? i know i haven't. it's been my expirience, customers care about the end product, not the process.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

You might want to acquire more power and hand tools and become proficient in using both.
This way you can be more efficient when making your heirloom pieces.
The heirloom pieces in your project section look great, keep doing the good work.


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## rockindavan (Mar 8, 2011)

My sister-in-law bought a dinning room table with "hand tool marks," which was nothing more than tear out and blade marks. She could care less that these are only mistakes that should never show up in a final project. Also she has no idea that they built it cheaply with all power tools then as a last ditch effort came back with a dull handplane and roughed up the surface. Pure handwork is a hard sell unless you are well known like Roy Underhill or like that amazing Japanese guy.


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## TDog (Apr 17, 2012)

Marc5

That's similar to my background. My dad was a carpenter, framer, and finally, a contractor. He taught me to sweep slabs in the knee high years then power tools later from the skill saw on up. My grandpa and uncle were more cabinet and furniture makers that influenced me with hand tools. I am leaning to the mix of both power and hand tools to do furniture projects. I am tempted right now to buy the powermatic mortise machine. Clean lines look very nice. Then, the hand work creates the originality. Thanks for the reply. Many of my buddies are mechanics and, I just can't talk much on alternators and pistons. LOL


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## TDog (Apr 17, 2012)

Crank 49,

I got ya on the ripping many feet by hand, looking forward to that sawstop cabinet saw after many more projects and savings. A whispering table saw is a great sound. I have a bench top craftsman but, I use my uncle's powermatic cabinet saw a good bit, it cuts like a hot knife through butter.


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## TDog (Apr 17, 2012)

Newwoodbutcher,

You have a very good point.
Im thinking, pieces to sell at flea markets or "commissioned" need quality and good prices.
Maybe just special gifts and such for Christmas by hand, mixed with the table saw of course.

Thanks for the comments and opinions


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## TDog (Apr 17, 2012)

Ted,

Bingo. My dad and I have talked off and on about our tools in this economy.
If the regular job falls through, people usually need something fixed. 
I have a state job currently, but I still don't get to comfortable.


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## TDog (Apr 17, 2012)

Bent,

good point, thanks.


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## NANeanderthal (Jun 2, 2011)

I only use hand tools, power tools annoy me and I don't consider them "fun" or any of that jazz. Not at all for me as a hobbyist. With that said, if I was trying to feed my wife with woodworking, you can bet your ass I'd have as much power as I can get. At the very min I would have a jointer, planner, and BS to "rough" prepare the stock.


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## TDog (Apr 17, 2012)

waho609

Thanks for the encouragement. Im at the point of 
"the only way you truly learn how to do something is just go do it" 
with as much advice and research from those in the profession (woodworking) as possible
Not waiting for everything to be just right, because it of course never will be…


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I'm all for all hand tools. But I don't do it and I'm not trying to make a living at it. Its ok to take the no power projects, but make sure you can get enough of them if its making the payments. Even then, stick the power tools in the back room, you're gonna want them again.


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## NANeanderthal (Jun 2, 2011)

As a side note, I have never had a problem with the amount of ripping needed when building a project at a time. Don't try to use handtools like powertools. You aren't setting a machine so you don't need to do all of one step at a time. i.e. When making a dresser by machine you make all your drawer stock at once, so as the planner, ts fence, etc stay the same. I take a board and make a drawer, when done with that drawer and its fit, I take another board and make another. Never doing large amount of ripping at once.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

If you want to sell the tools because you'd like the money, go for it. If money is not an issue just put the stuff up on a shelf or throw a sheet over it and try it for 6 mos. or a year. Your answer will come then.


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## TDog (Apr 17, 2012)

Rockin…

Now that I think about it, at the flea markets and websites
the woodworkers and crafts people are probably more interested in hand work details 
of which most of them can build something they need.

Many trade show and market goers think about things like
"I wonder if that will go with this or that in my living room and is it cheaper than the other one I saw" 
instead of "I wonder if those joints go all the way through ore are just glued on scrips.

It boils down to the price and the overall look I guess.
My dad always says, the customer may now want what you build, but you can build what they want, and they will pay for that


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## TDog (Apr 17, 2012)

Don,

you are right, It's not my bread and butter job, but I want to develop it into a small business that I can move into and make vacation and other money from in addition to my regular full time job.


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## TDog (Apr 17, 2012)

My son, (5) definitely enjoys the hand tools more as he hates the scream of the skill saw and old table saw.

But, he does love his new ear plugs and headset.


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

No one is going to pay extra money because you chose to do things the hard way. If a craftsman from 100 years ago had the chance to use a power tool to make their job easier, you can bet your bottom dollar they would. Woodworking is the only trade that puts romanticism in doing things the hard way. Spend an hour handplaning a board flat and I will spend 15 seconds running one through my planer, then you find anyone who can tell the difference. Some things demand handwork but 80% can be done better, more accurately and faster with the technology of power. In 10 years of making furniture and cabinetry full time, I have yet to have anyone even ask what type of tooling I will use to make their commissioned piece.

Business 101…..Time is money.


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## NANeanderthal (Jun 2, 2011)

*Spend an hour handplaning a board flat and I will spend 15 seconds running one through my planer, then you find anyone who can tell the difference.*

While I agree with the main body of your post I think your a bit hard on the hand tool side. I am assuming that this statement is hyperbole and the only reason I am responding is because I don't want beginners thinking that this statement is true on its face.

If you spend an hour planing a board flat, your doing something wrong. An entire workbench top shouldn't take anywhere near that. If you have a standard size board, say 6X24, once your proficient you shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to flatten one side, and bring the other side flat and parallel and to thickness. (assuming you're not trying to turn a 4/4 board into a 2/4 board of course).

As far as telling the diffidence, unless they don't have the sense of touch or sight, anyone can quickly tell the difference between a hand planed board and a power planed one. That why people don't go straight to finish from a planner, but do from a hand plane.

With all this said, I agree, if I was trying to earn money, I'd be slaying electrons right along with you guys.


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

I guess I agree there is no real premium in "value" because it is made with hand tool. Since there really isnt a premium in value, I guess time/effeciancy should win out on a lot of the steps. The term hand made can really just be symantics anyway. I mean, where would one draw the line. I think a hybrid approach would be the best. Some processes require the speed and accuracy of power tool, while some functions are best left to the hand tools. Being skilled in both, and using both, would be the preferred way to go in my opinion. Either for fun or for profit, the best tool for the job should be used.


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## dkirtley (Mar 11, 2010)

Depends on many things. What kind of work do you build? I can't say for sure that power tools are faster for all types of projects-or at least enough to make a real difference one way or another. Building one off pieces really changes the game. Machine setup time is not trivial.

The biggest question is how are your skills? Not your woodworking skills: your people skills for really listening and deciphering what the customer really wants and your marketing skills for selling your work as hand made.

Do you have a clientele available to pay a premium price? Does the style of work you do lend itself to dimensional stock? You are not going to be doing big production so you are not going to get a big break under retail for materials.

Do you have the fitness and stamina to do a lot of hand stock preparation? Not at your own pace but under a production schedule that doesn't care if your back hurts or you have a cold. If you do, how long can you guarantee it?

Also consider that it doesn't take that many power tools to speed things up and if you have them, why get rid of them? A few pieces extra sold will cover what you might get from selling them. A jointer, planer, tablesaw, bandsaw, router table, drill press, and lathe can cover 99% of power tool use.

I say if you have them use them. If it is about money, use cheaper variants or smaller capacity. Use hand tools to fill the gap. Hey, a contractor's saw cuts about as well as a cabinet saw if tuned up well. If you find a tool is not pulling it's weight, dump it and use the money to buy one that does. If you seen an upgrade that will have a real impact on your productivity, go for it.


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## TDog (Apr 17, 2012)

Thanks for your opinions and input on the hand tool and power tool discussion. I really enjoy both and it can come down to the piece your making too. I'm keeping my power tools and tuning them up well. As I build and eventually sell some furniture pieces I will up grade hand and power tools based on production and quality needs.

Have a great time making sawdust fellow lumberjacks and thanks for the helpful advice. 
I think I'll save the romanticism of 100% hand tool work for special projects here and there.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

You must be hankering for a very physical lifestyle if you want
to make a living working wood with hand tools only.

You'll get lean and strong for sure. Making money at it
is another matter.


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## bobblack (Jun 2, 2011)

First, buy (used, on line) and read the three Tage Frid books on handwork. You will then have a good understanding of how hand tools work and can deduce how power tools take over the function of hand tools.

Next, buy two No. 6 Stanley Planes. Sharpen one iron flat and the other in a curve shape. Joint rough lumber to make a table top - preferably dining table size. Make yourself some straight edges and a pair of windiing sticks. The flatten the table top using the No. 6"s. No. 7's & 8" work great if you are physically man enough to use them - me, I'm a No. 6 guy even though I own the 7 & 8.

Then use a 5 and 3 to smooth it to the point of it being read to scrape. Then scrape the surface.

It will be beautiful and you will be proud. You have been there and done that. It will be enjoyable if your shoulders don't hurt too much. The fuhgetaboutit.

Now, to duplicate the exact surface you run the boards through a jointer and then a planer. Glue it up. then plane out the glue lines with whatever it takes. Next go over the surface with a really sharp smoother and then scrape. Your shoulders will be proud of your decision.

The end result in both cases will be a hand scraped surface with no machine marks on any visible surface.

When I attempt to do good furniture I follow the second path. My guide is to have no visible machined surface anywhere on the piece. If I achieve that then there is no way you can tell how I did my rough milling: hand or machine. I'm old enough to understand with no shame that I can't compete with a 5 HP motor.

I believe there is no practical way to assemble furniture from machined surfaces that don't show the machine marks with any practical level of sanding short of running all of the pieces through a wide belt before assembly. As you have probably guessed I'm opposed to machine marks. Unfortunately I don't own a wide belt.

Your mileage may vary.

Bob Black in Atlanta


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## 12strings (Nov 15, 2011)

I don't know exactly what you have that you are getting rid of, but I agree that almost nobody cares that you prpared all your stock on a jointer & planer, or ripped it to sized on a table saw…in fact a good advertizing point is that you use power tools for efficiency and to keep prices reasonable, and use hand tools for the detail work that really shows & matters, and gives it that personal touch. This is the advice given by Chris Schwartz, as well as the approach that has been taken at Martin guitars for the last 50 or more years. Martin guitars are nice, and they are pricey to some…but they are not as pricey as 10,000 Olsen guitars (One guy makes those…and he also uses power tools)...because Martin has embraced a combination of machined work for rough sizing and hand work for the details.

Unless you are in some reenactment scenario…your going to lower your business output needlessly by going all hand-tools.


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## TDog (Apr 17, 2012)

Thanks for all the input.

12strings,

I like the marketing of the power tools on sizing etc and hand tools for smaller important detail work.
So I'll do the power tools and hand tools for a combination and efficiency. And work on a good marketing angle to show cost effectiveness.

A good quality finished product is the key regardless of how ya get there.

Thanks lumber jocks


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## joebloe (Feb 13, 2012)

I am not woodworking for a living,nor do I have a tv show about old time woodworking.I like both,and use both,in my opinion you would be limiting what could do by just using hand tools.also the time envolved,if your in it for the money,time is money


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

TDog,
Like you, I aspire to master hand tool techniques and achieve a great level of galootness. Why? Because it is just cool. I am a hoobyist and ,most importantly, will probably not make the same project twice.

However, if had to make a piece or part, say, a dozen times I'd make a jig so fast it would make your head spin. If I had to make a living producing wooden products I'd aim for efficiency, focus and economy of motion. If I could afford it I'd invest in a CNC router. Of course the finishing touches will be done with a T-11, 4 1/2 smoother :^)


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## Kevin_WestCO (Jun 5, 2011)

I'm a fine home builder and moving more and more into fine furniture and cabinetry. For years I've tried to produce a higher quality product then the other guys. Personally doing at least 90% of my projects myself, maybe with a helper. Rarely employing sub-contractors (elec/plumb/etc..) I've been able to carve out a little niche market for myself and a customer base that is very loyal. It takes longer and costs more in the end for the consumer but the product is far superior. I could make FAR HIGHER profits doing my business like the rest of the market but at the end of the day I'm able to feed my family and I'm way happier with the end product.

If the direction you want to go makes you happy and your able to produce a higher quality product doing so, go for it! There are people in any economy that will pay for quality, specially compared to what big box stores offer. Do your local market research, make sure you can handle a few lean months and pull the trigger. Like a couple other people have said… you might want to throw the power in the closet just in case.

That's my four cents.


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## TDog (Apr 17, 2012)

I made a list of fine hand tools today to get as I save my money. It won't be my main bread and butter income so there is some lead way in working with mostly hand tools. I want to work at mastering hand tool techniques and joinery making good furniture products and create a loyal customer who won't mind sending my name to their friends. The bottom line for me at this time is truly enjoying the craft and learning to do something in a way that is very satisfying but with a few modern necessities for the initial breakdown, hand tools and the table saw.

That's it for now since it is not our main family source of income. I am definitely keeping my power tools as I work with construction crews during my summers off as a school teacher.

All the talk and exchange has been great, my wife does not enjoy the debate much…LOL


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## NANeanderthal (Jun 2, 2011)

*in my opinion you would be limiting what could do by just using hand tools.*

I am failing to think of something that can be done with power that is limited without it. I get slower, but is there something you can think of that can be done on a Machine that can't be done by hand?

Well, I guess if you want the planner or jointer scallops as your finished surface, that would be hard to do by hand.


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## TDog (Apr 17, 2012)

In the long run I am thinking all hand tools and hand work.

There is a great website from a furniture maker I listed below.

I do appreciate this furniture maker's perspective on 100% hand tool working with wood.
He has a lot of experience also. I placed the link below. Check it out. Pretty cool.
He has a sharp tool chest in Jim Tolpin's Toolbox Book
Plus he is carrying a book I am going to order.

Chisel, Mallet, Plane, and Saw by Tony Konovaloff.

http://tonykonovaloff.com/?page_id=637


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I just looked at that fellow's work. Honest and straightforward stuff.

Nice, confined to softer woods and simple geometries.

That's really a fine way to go and if you're willing to keep your
work simple you'll find you can work pretty fast too.

If you want to train yourself well you could do far worse
than make your own versions of each of his designs. He
pretty much hits the major points of how the crafts is done
with no wasted energy. No mouldings and few curves,
for example.

An interesting thing about making acoustic guitars or violins
for example is you discover how quickly many tasks can be
done by hand if you are skilled and know what you want.


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## TDog (Apr 17, 2012)

Thanks Loren,

Enjoying woodworking and looking forward to another project 
and hitting some sales shows all in due time and with much learning ahead.

Having a blast on lumber jocks…


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

I think it's important to be familiar with both power and hand tools then select the appropriate or most efficient tool for the work at hand. Of course some people enjoy working with just hand tools and that's great. Quality and craftsmanship are in the head and hands, not in the tools.

I did a little commissioned work and no one ever asked whether I used hand tools or power tools, they just wanted something better or more personal than big box store furniture. Unfortunately most of those people want it at a big box store price.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

I just finished milling some oak boards for raised door panels. I used the jointer, planer and tablesaw. I cut them to length (mitersaw), laid them out for panel glue up and used my biscuit joiner and glue to put them together.

I can't imagine doing all of that without powers tools. The guys that only used hand tools to do the same thing I just did are real craftsmen. My hat is off to them.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

There is nothing more tedious than jointing and planing a board with a hand plane. I definitely mix it up and rather spend my "patience" time on the fine details which are done with hand tools.


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