# I officially hate Minwax Polycrylic



## Jofa

I've been using Minwax gloss polyurethane for a long time and the results have been great. However, I wanted to try water-based poly and gave Minwax Polycrylic a shot (mostly because I was trying to get a finish that wouldn't tint the wood at all).

The polycrylic is tougher to work with IMO. Seems that it doesn't lay down as nicely as oil based and it also seems to require a lot more to build it up.

Am I dreaming this or is this common?


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## pintodeluxe

The magazines sure make the water based products sound great. The lower VOC idea is good, but it seems the products themselves need improvement. 
I like sprayable lacquer the best. The second coat melts into the first, and I am done in one afternoon.

I visited a quaint little furniture store with lots of handmade case goods. The finish on most pieces was rough and brushed-on. Then I found a craftsman style dining table in the back that had a wonderful satin luster and smooth finish. I complimented the owner on the finish and he said "Oh, I didn't finish that one." 
I felt bad, but realized then that sprayed lacquer finishes are the ones I like!


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## Richforever

The local HomeDepot switched from Minwax to Varathane. I was very impressed with the increase in quality and ease of use. I've learned that Minwax doesn't work in a lot of situations and has low bonding capability. I used to like water-based finishes, but now prefer oil-based ones. The wood seems to like them better.


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## wapakfred

I wouldn't judge waterborne finishes based on your experience with the Minwax. To me, Minwax is the Harbor Freight of finishes. Try one of the higher quality brands. Target Coatings, GF, maybe even the new Rustoleum Ultimate waterborne (may be the same as the Varathane product). Don't get seduced by the word polyurethane either. All waterbornes are predominantly an acrylic resin finish….some of the manufacturers have added a small amount of urethane resins so they can (IMHO) put that seemingly magic word on the label.


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## mojapitt

I switched to Varathane as well. Didn't like what I was getting from Minwax.


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## OggieOglethorpe

Try General Finishes waterbased products. They are simply outstanding!


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## nwbusa

My experience with Minwax products is that they generally suck (especially their Polyshades stains). Varathane, on the other hand, has given excellent results.


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## pintodeluxe

Fred, regarding your comment … "Minwax is the Harbor Freight of finishes"

I am still laughing.


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## BillWhite

I don't/won't use any MW products. By in large they are "crapithane". Yep! The HF comparison is accurate.
Stains:
Mud in a can.
Finishes:
Bleahhhhh!
Wanna know how I really feel?
Bill


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## a1Jim

As for most minwax products I agree they are the Hf of finishes ,I've used polycric for years with good results.
I also agree that General finishes makes good products. I have not bought any new finishing products in the last 6 months and I understand that many of the finishing projects have had to meet new VOC guide lines and have reformulated and are not what they use to be. 
I've been spraying finishes for 40+ years and all of the different types of finishes shoot differently, particuarly when you switch from oil base to waterborne products. Water borne top coats need to be recoated in the time period the instructions describes on the can,they do not flow or melt into the previous coat like oil base products do. Like most top coats it's important to stir you finishes throughly and remember to do so before recoating(many times 3 hours apart for WB)


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## SuperCubber

I've used both Minwax Polycrylic and GF water-based. While I prefer the GF, I don't hate the Polycrylic. It haas given me great results. I just finished spraying a chair with it and it looks and feels great. That being said, I generally stay away from most of the Minwax stains.


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## ChuckC

Polycrylic dries fast so you have to apply it in thin coats or it won't lay right. I've used the stuff in a can and rattle can spray. I prefer the spray. If you prefer a can be carful not to shake it or you will get a lot of air bubbles. Just stir it with a stick.


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## mrossk

Had very nice results with the Rustoleum, as well as with the General Finishes. Both much easier to use than the Miniwax, IMO


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## pmayer

I have had mixed results with MW PC. I tried General Finish as well and thought it was pretty good. I like Deft's water based product better than both of them. I think it lays down and flows out better, and I like the tone of it better than MW as well (although the tone of the General Finish product is pretty similar to deft)

In the summer when I don't mind leaving the windows open for a few days I use Minwax oil based wipe on which I like the look of better than any water based product.


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## Tennessee

I'll stick my neck out and admit that I've used Minwax stains for decades. Their Natural is a wonderful grain enhancer. As far as their lacquer and polyurethanes, no thanks…I think I still have one quart of their brushing lacquer, (seems like an oxymoron statement on larger surfaces), unopened for years now.
I've been a Deft lacquer fan for years, was sorry to see that Lowes stopped carrying it. Varathane is excellent. For heavy finishes, I sprayed Mccloskey's Gymseal a few times. Gone now, the replacement is called Man-O-War. Have not tried that.
I've tried a couple of the above mentioned water-based finishes. To this old goat, they are just too much of an adjustment for me. Too much wood fuzz. I'm like Willie - spray on one coat of good lacquer, go back a little later and put on one more coat that blends beautifully into the first, done…


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## LeeBarker

It is a mistake to take solvent based habits, tools and procedures into the waterborne field. You have to recast your thinking, get a good, purpose-built brush and practice while paying attention not to the work, but to how the material responds to what your hands are doing.

Perhaps this will make my point clearer: Consider an operation that you do on the tablesaw, one which can also be done on a radial arm saw, which you've never used. Switching from the former to the latter, and expecting excellent results, you would likely do some research, try some things out, experiment a little before subjecting your current project to potential substandard results.

Now to climb down out of this pulpit…. : )

Kindly,

Lee


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## quvia

I'm a little different an like the minwax even it it is the hf of finishes. I do big projects (beds etc. ) and get good results. i use a satin finish and sand with very fine b-4 recoating. Works for me but you can see the level of my woodworking skills.


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## lumberjoe

I tried polycrylic last week for the same reasons. It's not terrible, I just didn't like how it looks. As advertised, it imparted no more color to the wood than water does, however it left it looking really flat. I tried it on curly maple and didn't like the results. This is not to speak poorly of the product - a waterborne finish did not give the the results I was looking for.

As far as minwax products - it's popular to hate on them because they aren't the fancy specialty brands. However many pros and magazines rate their oil based poly very favorably. Personally I notice absolutely no difference between my home made Minwax wipe on poly and general finishes Arm-r-seal; in both finish quality and mode/ease of application. In fact I kind of feel like a sucker paying the premium for a green can.


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## MalcolmLaurel

Funny, I remember my father saying he didn't like Minwax products some 30 years ago… and after using their Polyshades product on a couple of lamp bases this week, I'm inclined to agree (but then the combo varnish/stain is a hack product anyway). Dad preferred Varathane but it's not as easy to find. I did have good results using Olympic One-step varnish/stain on the walls (beaded plywood) in my old cabin but it was tedious and took a lot of quart cans. I now conclude that the combo products are only suitable for large flat areas.

Spirits vs waterborne… when finishing my new cabin I decided to try a transparent exterior stain (yes, on the interior walls) from Cabot. This was an oil based product, and except for the time it took for the odor to dissapate, it worked great. When I finished the last room last year, the oil based product had been discontinued in favor or the new waterborne product… not nearly as nice to work with, not quite the same color (fortunately it's a different room so you can't really tell), and the odor took even longer to go away.


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## b2rtch

The last time I used some , it never set/harden. 
Even several days later it was still sticky.
I removed it and I used brush on lacquer


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## jeffswildwood

I have a love/hate relationship with minwax products. I will be using one can of polyurethane and it will work perfect for me. Go on smooth, lay flat, nice shine and appearance. Then I will get another can when I run out and it will be a fight the whole way. Go on uneven, Try to run, (even on a flat surface), have trouble drying and have to be re-sanded and start over. Even seems thicker then the prior can. Maybe a quality control issue. I have three cans left (gloss, semi-gloss and satin) and when gone I'm going to try other products. I do have good luck with their stains. That is when sanded to 220. When I move up to 320 I have to be ready for multiple coats. I tried polyshades one time (one) never again. Poly and stain together just didn't work for me.


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## CharlieM1958

Minwax may or may not be inferior to some other brands, but I seriously doubt that is what's responsible for the original poster's complaints.

I totally agree with Lee… Water-based poly behaves quite differently from oil-based. There is a definite learning curve. FWIW, I've had very good results applying Minwax polycrylic with a foam brush.


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## Jofa

Great responses everyone.

I have no doubt that Lee's assessment is spot on. I'm not accustomed to water borne stuff and I'd bet the issue is, for the most part, me and my technique.

As an update…

I have a few coats on the project and knocked it back with some 180, simply to get things even. I then laid another coat and it's better. Not great but better.

Charlie, a foam brush may be the way to go moving forward.


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## b2rtch

I was told to never use foam brushed as they live tons of air bubbles.
I understand that a plastic "spreader" as for Bondo (almost like wide putty knife) or similar work well. I never tried it.


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## JonHitThingWithRock

The first few times i tried waterbourne I either brushed or foam brushed minwax polycrylic, which didn't work very well, especially on inside corners where it built up and looked crappy. Once I started spraying, it all made sense, waterbourne works thousands of times better sprayed (IMO). The minwax polycrylic I used is, admittedly, 5 or 6 years old and has been frozen and thawed many times and still basically works fine, albeit with some minor adhesion issues. As far as brands go, I've been trying out Ace hardware brand polyurethane and water-based stuff and am far happier with them than I am with Minwax's stuff, especially their polyurethane which is FAR less plasticky than minwax, and evens itself out much nicer, even when I'm in a hurry and don't pay much attention to what I'm doing.

I'm basically using up what remains of my oil-based stock and moving to water-based completely, it may seem like more work to spray because you have to set your compressor to a specific pressure, strain your finish, adjust the gun, spray the finish, pour the remainder back into the can, clean out the gun, let it dry, put it back together, yada yada, but I've timed myself, and it takes me less time to spray a coat of waterbourne and clean the gun than it does to wipe on a coat of polyurethane, plus I can do the second and third coat the same day and be completely done, where poly takes me a week because I have to wait so long for each coat to dry, and I do five coats because they're thinned. I think if you take the plunge, buy a gun and try spraying, and you like the look of laquer you'll probably like waterbourne, but try general finishes and the ace hardware brand, IMO they're both a lot better than minwax.

As for spraying, you can go as cheap as the $12 harbor freight gun and get acceptable results, or go better out of the gate and pickup a ~$50 gun from home depot or lowes (I got a $50 husky from hd) along with a cleaning kit, if you have an air compressor, you're all set (you don't need an enormous compressor to spray).


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## cutworm

10-4 on that. When I spray waterborne it tends to be grainy. I can,t make myself move closer. I am improving.
To repeat others GF is really good stuff. I sprayed some kitchen chairs with their milk paint and it,s really durable.


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## CharlieM1958

Bert: Interesting tip about a spreader…. I might have to try that. As far as getting bubbles from a foam brush, it's been my experience that they dissipate before the poly sets hard enough to trap them. I will say you don't really want to "dab" at it with a foam brush. Once the surface is well covered with finish, I use long strokes with just the tip of the brush to smooth things out.


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## woodsmithshop

I have found that Crystalac to be one of the best water bourne finishes that I have used, they have a tint that you can add for that amber tone.


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## Radu

Now that you have it, play with it, experiment. Dilute it 60% poly 40% water. I know it sais on the can not to be diluted. The heck with it, do it. Then brush it on or even wipe it on. See what you get.


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## crank49

I have used and liked MW PC. I use it on most all my jigs and such.
Don't think I'd like it on fine work, but have never tried it there.
I, too, use a foam brush, or a very, very fine synthetic brush made specifically for the purpose.
You do need to tune your technique to avoid as much brushing and agitating as possible to avoid bubbles.


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## mbs

I bought a can of PC and didnt care for it for the same reasons already stated. I use it for jigs and I'll be happy when the can is empty.


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## tefinn

Here are some of the tricks I've found to help MW polycrylic come out nice.

Don't sand higher than 320 grit. Make sure all dust is removed. Use a good nylon brush (I use a high quality white Taklon brush). Apply the first two thin coats (don't over brush), then lightly sand with 220 grit. Apply each successive thin coat, lightly sanding with 220 between each. I may put on 5 or 6 more coats after the first two depending on the project. MW recommends 2 hours between coats. I only wait about an hour, this way I can usually put on all coats in a day. After the finish is completely cured (2 or 3 days), rub out with 600 grit and apply wax.

I get a real nice silky finish when I follow this procedure. It still looks plasticy, but that's the nature of the beast with this product. It does take more effort, but you can apply more coats quicker and it cures faster than solvent based poly. It's also more likely safer for kid use items and doesn't fume up the house if I need to finish inside.


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