# 4 ft fluorescent to LED - single or dual end powered?



## d38 (Sep 6, 2017)

I'm going to start converting my shop fluorescents to LED.
I want to go the right direction, so asking for some advise. 
I'll remove the ballasts. 
Whats the best type to get-single ended where power and neutral are on the same end, or dual ended where power is on one end, and neutral on the other?
I see some bulbs can be wired either way. 
I think dual ended would be easier to convert my fixtures because I wouldn't need to replace tombstones on one end. 
If the LEDs last forever - no issues either way. But I'd hate to wire them one way, then 10 years later only the other version is available and causing me to rewire to install a replacement.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

A site I have purchased from, and there are many, is--super bright LEDs .com---. I would not use the tube type that use the lampholders or the type that use the original ballasts. I like the type with a new driver and are pre wired that have LED strips that are attached with magnets to the sheet metal. The type with frosted tubes really drops the light output. I like 5000 k, your opinion may vary. There also led shop lights at Sam's and other places that have three levels of light built in, so if you have chain hung lights, that might be a better option, for about the same price.


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## Oka (Jun 23, 2019)

The Costco LEDs are the ones I put in my garage shop.
20 buck fully assembled. I have 4 for a 480 sqft garage. My ft candle is roughly 33-35fc in my tool area.

They are by Feit mfr if I remember correctly. Cheap and effective…...... my 2 cents


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## Oka (Jun 23, 2019)

The Costco LEDs are the ones I put in my garage shop.
20 buck fully assembled. I have 4 for a 480 sqft garage. My ft candle is roughly 33-35fc in my tool area.

They are by Feit mfr if I remember correctly. Cheap and effective…...... my 2 cents


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## Oka (Jun 23, 2019)

The Costco LEDs are the ones I put in my garage shop.
20 buck fully assembled. I have 4 for a 480 sqft garage. My ft candle is roughly 33-35fc in my tool area.

They are by Feit mfr if I remember correctly. Cheap and effective…...... my 2 cents


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## d38 (Sep 6, 2017)

My initial thought is keeping current fixtures, remove ballast, and insert LED T8 tubes.
My shop is 30×44 ft, and has 10 of these 8' fixtures (uses 4 ft bulbs) from Lowes. 
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Lithonia-Lighting-General-Purpose-Strip-Light-Actual-96-in-x-4-375-in-x-2-0625-in/1000410841

Shop built in 2011, 10' walls, white painted OSB on walls and ceiling.

Current fixtures are ceiling-mounted, hard-wired from an end, and most of them are 2 end-to-end for 16 ft of lights. 
Since they're hard wired with wire coming in from an end, I don't have a junction box/pug in available (ROMEX wire simply comes thru OSB from attic and into the fixture). 
And considering the qty, I think it will be cheaper to convert current fixtures to LED tubes, rather than remove all of them and install new ones.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

Back to : Look at the magnetic conversion kits, which use the existing fixturrs. Available in different colors and wattages, Look at the output compared to the frosted tubes, you will like the brighter light. I have installed hundreds of what you have. What led replacement lamp are you considering?


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> I like 5000 k, your opinion may vary.
> - ibewjon


I would like to hear why someone would pay for the light, and the electricity to have a mood light in their shop. I want 50,000, unfortunately…....

I bought one of those retrofit kits for an old T8 light. It was supposed to be 5K, next to a new strip light, with no bulb shape, they were half as bright as the LED's. Both were listed as 5k on the color/light spectrum, clear white. Retro fitting the ballast lights was slightly cheaper, but when you added in bulb price I was buying brand new 4' LED strip lights on Menards on sale, and with 11% off for less money per light.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

Not sure what you are saying. I did not say the lights change color. The lights have three brightness levels. That is a new feature in some lights, not one in the lights I have. Some people call that energy savings. And 6000 k LEDs are available.


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## farmfromkansas (Jun 16, 2019)

Have about 19 4 bulb troffers in my shop. Changed them to led last year. More light from each fixture. Bought the kind you remove ballasts and use the original tombstones. Removed one wire from each end of bulb. Have a huge pile of thin wire left over. Not one bulb has failed, bought most from ebay sellers.


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## d38 (Sep 6, 2017)

ibewjon, those do look like a simple install, but seems like the price is higher than buying tubes.

These can be wired single or dual end.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BW5ADYO/ref=twister_B01M11C1HM?_encoding=UTF8&th=1

These are single-end wired only
https://www.amazon.com/Sunco-Lighting-Equivalent-Connection-Ballast/dp/B01CRB8ITO/ref=sr_1_11?crid=26X13QCQ3GAS&keywords=sunco+4000k+led&qid=1561324377&s=hi&sprefix=sunco+400%2Ctools%2C217&sr=1-11

I'm leaning towards 4000k color. That's what my florescent in the shop are, and I put 6 LED hanging fixtures in my other garage that are 5000k, with frosted lenses, and they're too harsh for me.


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## LesB (Dec 21, 2008)

I would use the ones that are easiest for you to rewire. Some LED suppliers provide new tombstones with the tubes. Tombstones are inexpensive and easy to install in any event.

I tried changing my 8' tubes in the shop only to discover that the LEDs emit a RF (radio frequency) that interferes with my shop AM/FM radio, which I listen to when I work in the shop. The 8' were single pin so they had to be wired at each end.
I used the 4' double end LEDs to refit my garage fixtures which worked great. I checked those for RF by bringing the portable radio in there and they did emit RF but not as bad as the 8's in my shop. 
The 4000k tubes are ideal for shops and garages and I prefer the frosted tubes because I don't like the clear tubes that show each individual LED.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

if you already have t8 bulbs just buy the led's,i converted my shop over and I have about 56 tubes.i did no rewiring at all.you didn't say what you currently have.as far as whats available in 10 years get out your crystal ball-lol.also led's don't last forever,just along time.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

If you buy led lamps that operate from existing ballasts, plan on buying new ballasts when yours burn out. It is an easy short term solution, but has a limited future. I sure wouldn't worry about seeing the LEDs in the fixtures if it gives a greater light output. I have not looked at mine since the day I installed them. But I can sure see the tools and where my hands are a lot better.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> If you buy led lamps that operate from existing ballasts, plan on buying new ballasts when yours burn out. It is an easy short term solution, but has a limited future. I sure wouldn t worry about seeing the LEDs in the fixtures if it gives a greater light output. I have not looked at mine since the day I installed them. But I can sure see the tools and where my hands are a lot better.
> 
> - ibewjon


after switching to led bulbs I was able to get rid of 8 bulbs and still be brighter plus using 1/2 the power.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I think that if you are going to go to all the trouble of rewiring to remove the ballasts, etc. you might as well just replace the entire unit with an LED fixture, like the ones mentioned from Costco. They have gotten so cheap that I doubt that you will save much if any money, not to mention time, converting your old fixtures and buying bulbs for them. I converted a vintage T8 desk lamp but its ballast and wiring was shot because it was so old and it took me longer than I expected. I discovered while doing it that it had a special switch that temporarily engaged a starter circuit that had to be replaced as well.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> I think that if you are going to go to all the trouble of rewiring to remove the ballasts, etc. you might as well just replace the entire unit with an LED fixture, like the ones mentioned from Costco. They have gotten so cheap that I doubt that you will save much if any money, not to mention time, converting your old fixtures and buying bulbs for them. I converted a vintage T8 desk lamp but its ballast and wiring was shot because it was so old and it took me longer than I expected. I discovered while doing it that it had a special switch that temporarily engaged a starter circuit that had to be replaced as well.
> 
> - Lazyman


your right if you have to change the ballast just buy a new fixture,same cost and a whole less work.


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## rad457 (Jun 15, 2013)

I switched a couple of fixtures in the shop to LED's [Costco] and actually was disappointed, my T8 Cool white IMO give me a better light and it appears that in less than 2 years the LED are yellowing?
Not sure were the cost savings come from, LED 23 watts, new T8s 26watts, going to take a long time to return the extra cost a 3 watt saving?


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

At work we have done conversions on several stores from T8 to LED. We have gone dual end for a couple reasons: ease of install and ease of tube replacement. Install on a dual end is simply removing the ballast and tying the leads direct to incoming power. As long as tombstones are in good shape, this is the way to go and is much easier than changing the fixture.

The other advantage is that the tubes will work regardless of which direction you put them in. Maybe not a big consideration for a shop with only one person knowing what is going on, but a huge concern for a store. We didn't want people throwing away good LED tubes that didn't light because they put it in backwards and didn't know to just flip it around.

IMHO, you are doing this the right way. Using the direct replacements is a shortcut that gives LED light without wiring, but the ballast is still the weak point in the system, both in life expectancy and energy efficiency. Much better to go direct wire and dual end has too many advantages to ignore.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

And no one knows how long t 8 ballasts will be available. Best to go ballast free. And the ballasts can be scrapped or recycled. Don't toss in the trash.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Make sure you don't have sockets (tombstones) that are shunted. Check with an ohm meter. Most T8 are 'Instant Start'... so many of the sockets come with the two pins shorted.


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

I recently bought 24 4-foot T8 replacement LED tubes - plastic, clear, no ballast kind. Now that I think about it, I fear the plastic will yellow over time, but I've got 'em now, so we'll see.

24 bulbs came to about $150 from Walmart.com, delivered, so about $6 / ea.

I haven't installed them yet because of the wiring. I just have to get ready and do it. 6 4-bulb units with a bunch of stuff on the floor that will have to be moved to put the ladder there. I think I'll just do 1 fixture at a time as I have time - starting with fixtures that have currently bad bulbs.

Meanwhile, I have also installed some automotive type low voltage LED lights. I like them a lot. I have a several more of that type and power supplies for task lighting , but haven't gotten them up yet.

The two red units over my table saw below are able to run on 12v-60v DC. I have them running on a 24v power supply. They are very bright white with a spot about the right size to center on the blade of the saw from the 9' ceiling.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

LED ballasts are called Drivers, and are built into the 120 v led lamps


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

> if you already have t8 bulbs just buy the led s,i converted my shop over and I have about 56 tubes.i did no rewiring at all.you didn t say what you currently have.as far as whats available in 10 years get out your crystal ball-lol.also led s don t last forever,just along time.
> 
> - pottz


Good advice for me and this will work for me-


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

> I switched a couple of fixtures in the shop to LED s [Costco] and actually was disappointed, my T8 Cool white IMO give me a better light and it appears that in less than 2 years the LED are yellowing?
> Not sure were the cost savings come from, LED 23 watts, new T8s 26watts, going to take a long time to return the extra cost a 3 watt saving?
> 
> - Andre


+1


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> I switched a couple of fixtures in the shop to LED s [Costco] and actually was disappointed, my T8 Cool white IMO give me a better light and it appears that in less than 2 years the LED are yellowing?
> Not sure were the cost savings come from, LED 23 watts, new T8s 26watts, going to take a long time to return the extra cost a 3 watt saving?
> 
> - Andre
> ...


i dont know what you got andre my old t8's were rated 32w the led's i bought are 15w and are much brighter than the old one's and rated to last about 40,000 hr's so if there on for 8hr's a day that's 5000 days.sounded good to me.


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