# Scroll Saw comments please: Craftsman 20" 137-216200 & Harbour Freight 16" 93012-5VGA



## HardWoodHead (Mar 10, 2009)

Like LumberJock member *Craftsman on the lake* I want a decent scroll saw but can't justify spending the $ 500.00 plus to get to the real nice machines. Also like him I don't want to toss out $ 100.00 to get something that is virtually worthless. At any rate here are a couple of machines I have narrowed down to.

The Craftsman appears to be yet another "one off" Sear's model as I cannot seem to locate much about it. I did, however; find an users' manual and one person who wrote somewhat of a review and said he would not buy it again although what he cited as problems seemed to me trivial. Perhaps he is justified as the price new was probably a bit more than what I could get the used one at. The link to the only review I found regarding the Craftsman is here http://www.airfieldmodels.com/informationsource/modelbuildingtools/scrollsaws.htm

Used twice-Excellent condition: Craftsman 137-21620020" model with stand $ 150.00
















Next is the Harbour Freight job. LumberJock member *Abbott* said he was going to look at one and decide between it and the Hitachi CW40 at Lowe's. It looks pretty heavy duty and the price is, well its cheap.

New: Central Machinery (Harbour Freight 93012-5VGA) $ 79.99









If any of you have any experience or heard anything about either of these saws please respond here with your comments or suggestions as to other saws. I have only honed in on these two saws because of my recent search and the fact that I have Scroll Saw Fever. So I welcome any and all input and guidance. I have also looked at the Hitachi CW40 16" at Lowe's (with stand $ 179.00) and a practically new (used twice) Task Force 16" SS162VHW for $ 60.00 (I think Lowe's discontinued). Thank you!


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## MedicKen (Dec 2, 2008)

I would stay away from both. I would look and try to find an older Delta 40-440 and restore it. But thats me. I dont like the newer chiwanese stuff and will not buy another one. Powermatic also has an older model that might be looking at as well. Look at craigslist and be patient, a good one will turn up.


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## AaronK (Nov 30, 2008)

i just got an older craftsman 20" (the one shown here) for $75 off craigslist. i think something like a scroll saw is a really safe bet used. and the thing is SOLID. it must weigh 150lbs or so with the stand!


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## HardWoodHead (Mar 10, 2009)

MedicKe: Thank you for your input. I have seen some old ones already and thought the same thing but without having some guidance I had no clue as to which of the old ones might be good. I will keep my eye out for those. Look here is a picture of a Delta 40-440. Now that is just toooooooooooo nice!









Below is another I found, an older Craftsman the other day for $ 30.00 that I thought might be good for light duty or a starter but again, I am just not so familiar with all of them.

Craftsman 18" 113.207600 Scroll Saw









Dremel 1671 16" is another old one I found for $ 65.00


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## Blondewood (Mar 30, 2009)

I would be more concerned about the features. I would want quick release/easy blade change and threading. If the Craftsman has that and runs smoothly, I would choose that one. I wouldn't fool with the HF if you want to do very much scrolling. If you are new to scrolling I would also recommend Flying Dutchman blades from Mike. You can google that easily.
Vicki


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## HardWoodHead (Mar 10, 2009)

AaronK: Yeah that is nice! I can tell that one is weighty just by looking at it. I am afraid the 20" I am looking at is quite a bit newer and probably not as good. You are in Texas as well?

Here is Aaron's nice 20" Craftsman. Sweet deal.


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## HardWoodHead (Mar 10, 2009)

Hey Vicki,
You are the second person from here that recommended the Flying Dutchman blades. I sure will get some of those. Thanks.

Here is my real machine of choice. You all have probably already seen this out there. Pretty cool.


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## BTM (Jun 2, 2009)

i have a craftsman similar to the one in your pic… in fact i think it is the same. i replaced the knobs which hold the blade in place with replacement parts off the dewalt saw (same threading; order new from dewalt for cheap) and it makes a WORLD of difference with ease of blade instillation / performance. I like it now for the occasions when i need a scroll saw (occasional marquetry or detail work; i'm not a heavy user).

the big difference in the dewalt knobs is that the tip of the knob, which comes in contact with the blade to clamp it, has a bearing of sorts which prevents the torque that comes from tightening the knob from transferring to the blade. with the craftsman knobs, this torque kinked the blade, causing difficulty in instillation and weakening the blade causing frequent breaks.


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## HardWoodHead (Mar 10, 2009)

*BTM:* You are referring to the one pictured here again below right? Good tips regarding the knobs. This guy selling it said it was labelled 'professional', not that that should mean anything but does your's say that as well? Just trying to compare apples to apples. Of course you could look at the model number on yours I suppose but assuming they are the same do you think $ 150.00 (with stand) is a fair price? It is in excellent condition only used a couple of times. 
Here it is again.


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## AaronK (Nov 30, 2008)

i cant really address the other models, but mine seems solid and easy enough to adjust/replace blades even if it's not really quick release. there is no light though, and the blower is weak.

i would guess that you have a good deal on that newer one. the "professional" series seems to be much higher acclaimed than the run of the mill craftsman.

i'm in WV, btw


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

The hitachi I reviewed awhile back looks like the craftsman you have pictured above. In fact I think it's only made for hitachi now. Even though the body looks like it, there are some differences like the controls, blade storage and interestingly the blade tightening knob at the back of the top arm is missing. The one I bought is $179 new at Lowes when it's not on sale. If you were considering the used craftsman, I'd purchase the similar saw new for $30 more with what looks like updates and a warranty.

I also took a look at your link for someone who owns the craftsman and the complaints do seem trivial. The hitachi also has changes from this guys article. i.e. the table doesn't rust for me, the insert is level and the blade insertion/clamping mechanism seems to be different in mine.
Good luck with your decision. Whatever you do, let us know the results.


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## HardWoodHead (Mar 10, 2009)

_*Craftsman on the lake:*_ Ok thanks. Unless I hear something really scary about the Craftsman I may offer the guy $ 100.00 for it. I am rather taken by it because of the 20" depth, however; if he won't budge then I will certainly consider the Hitachi 16" CW40 per your review I read. Yesterday after reading your review which I found to be honest and fair, I searched online for more reviews on the model and found several people on one site really trashing the CW40. It makes me wonder if maybe Hitachi had a bad run on the assembly line and these people got a hold of them. It could also be other factors as you well know of and perhaps more attributable to the user's level of understanding and education as to what the saw is supposed to be and do in relation to how much they paid for it and the kind of work they are doing with the saw. This reminds me that I myself should have mentioned at the beginning of this topic that I will be an occasional user and even at that I don't envision scrolling on really thick materials too much. Reading your review it would seem you are in the same camp and so your comments carry more weight. Labor Day weekend. Maybe Lowe's will drop the price on the Hitachi to $ 150.00!


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

I saw some of those reviews too but it was mostly from people who had a hard time getting the clasps to hold a pinless blade. I was ready to just use pin blades but I find that my old set of pinless hold just fine. And in the scroll work I did for the desk I had to remove and reinstall the blade several times to get all the interior holes done. No slipping blade issues at all. I didn't see any other big issues in my research. Maybe you found some.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

There are a number of things to look for in a good scroll saw but the two things most important in my book is how easily your connect and reconnect the blade and secondly how smoothly it runs. That's why I think it's best to see the saw in person before you buy.


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## JohnGray (Oct 6, 2007)

Watch the pawn shops I picked up a Dremel saw for $35 at my local one.


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## HardWoodHead (Mar 10, 2009)

John Gray: What is the model number of your Dremel?


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## brianinpa (Mar 16, 2008)

Dan,

As it has already been said: stay away from both. The cost of the Harbour Freight looks good, but you wiill have to replace it too soon. The Craftsman is a good saw, but it desn't take too long to out work this saw.

ALMOST any model from the 40's or 50's will do. I have a 40's Craftman 24" and the only negative I have for it is that it is too heavy in my "portable" shop.


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## MedicKen (Dec 2, 2008)

I saw an online auction that has 2 for sale. RBI Hawk and the starting price is $35. The only draw back is they are in Minnesota. Do you have family or frinds there that could pick it up?

http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=370024

http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=370025


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## Jackie (Sep 21, 2009)

Hi all,
I have the Harbor Freight scroll saw. I got one for my birthday 3 years ago and it broke after a year. The tension knob, the entire assembly, broke. It sits in the barn in a box right now. I bought a new one, same thing, on sale again for $59, October 1, 2007, It is on sale now for $69. I bought the replacement 2 year warranty on it this time for $10. Well this one is not working right either. It will be fine and all of a sudden, I hear like metal on metal and the blade starts to cut sideways or way off my line. I do intarsia and segmentation. I have been looking for a new saw and will exchange this one and keep it as a back up, we will see how this warranty actually works. Everytime I find one that sounds like what I want, I find they don't make it anymore. This Hitachi sounds like exactly what I want. In order to get the blade on the harbor freight one tensioned right, I have to turn that knob over 20 times, not all the way around. I avoid changing the blade because it is so much trouble. THe Hitachi looks like, you can let the tension off with the flip up of the tension knob, change the blade, and flip it back down and your tension will be like it was before. I hope I am right. Also the easy blade change in this one and variable speed is needed. I also can NOT get the plain end blades to work in the harbor freight saw. They will not stay in and you have to use an allen wrench to clamp them in. I gave up on that. I would like to wait for spring to get a new saw because I live in Michigan and work in the barn, outside, and will have to close down shop for the winter soon.


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## burl (Sep 12, 2009)

I bought the Dewalt because of the ease of cutting interior cuts. The upper arm releases enough to put the blade thru without having to completely remove the blade. You can see from my projects that it works. It does cost the extra bucks, but you know the old adage "you get what you pay for". I also tried the Craftsman but took it back and bought the Dewalt.


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## Rick Dennington (Aug 27, 2009)

I have a nearly brand new DeWalt DW788 with stand I'll let go REAL cheap. I hate it.(se related story to "Why did I buy that tool?"). It also has the light, blades,blower, all the bells and whistles. Any s.s-no matter which one-- you can have them.


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## runngt (Feb 29, 2008)

Way back when I had "scroll saw fever" as well I looked at the craftsman professional and the Ryobi at my local orange box store.

Some people hate on craftsman tools quite a bit, I understand more now then when I first started building my garage full of tools as to why and where the complaints come from. Many moons ago I think they were (and I use this loosely) "great tools", but in years past they have slipped further and further down my list of "to buy" tools. They seem to get cheaper and cheaper as time goes on, but they still have a few good products and I would still buy a few of their tools. It just depends on the tool, how often I would use it and what my budget is for that tool.

I ended up with the ryobi only because it came with a free corner sander (which I never use and is mostly useless) but the price was $99. For the work I have done it has been a good tool. The table top is aluminum so rust is not a problem, the power has been good enough to get the job done. It will accept both pin and non pin blades. Blade changes can be a head ache, but not bad after you get used to them. I could change them in the dark now after a few uses.

If your going to spend many hours at this machine and this is the focus of your work spend the money and buy the biggest and baddest tool you can afford, if your going to play on this machine everynow and then craftsman will serve you well, plus at $150 for the tool and stand it's hard to beat the deal. I get the harbor freight tool mailing with the discount emails…..I have yet to buy a single tool from them, even after driving to the store and looking. These are disposable tools. In fact we have a saying at our shop, if the harbor freight tool is red it's a double use, if it's blue it's a single use tool.


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## Jackie (Sep 21, 2009)

Rick, you want to sell the dewalt? How much????
Jackie


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## HardWoodHead (Mar 10, 2009)

*runngt:* Excellent advice and make sense to me. I won't be using the saw a lot, I just don't want it to shake all to hell when I crank it up. What model Ryobi did you end up with? This one thing I have decided: I am definitely NOT buying the one from Harbor Freight. Just holding out for the best deal. I missed out on that "20 Craftsman and kind of wish I would have grabbed it but I would have had to drive so far so I am holding out again for a deal.


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## runngt (Feb 29, 2008)

HardWood, I will look tonight. I know it's a 16" but I can get you all the info in a bit.


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## scrollfreak (Jan 10, 2012)

I know I am a little late on this subject, but I recently purchased a craftsman model 137.216200. Seems to run smoothly except for a little unwanted rocking of the blade. But with a little playing with it I got it to run the way I wanted it to. Don't care for the blade guard. I started out with a saw from Harbor Freight. Did ok for a while. But a 16 inch throat is too small for some of the work I do. I purchased a Grizzly 22 inch scroll saw last year. It had some design flaws that I reworked. It turned out to be my best saw now. Runs straight and smooth. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles like other saws, but I have done probably over 200 scroll pieces with it. Grizzly has discontinued this perticular saw so I was able to purchase a couple more from them for future parts for 15 bucks apiece. Like I said, with a little finangling and redesigning of my own it has turned out to be a top grade saw.


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## beachblu (Dec 10, 2015)

Boy, would I love to see a good photo of the Craftsman 18" scroll saw (113.207600). I picked one up at Goodwill, and then discovered that it's missing the two Blade Holders and associated blade clips. Of course, I'd like to just find a set of these, but if not, contemplating making a set of blade holders somehow. A good close-up photo of these (on the scroll saw) would be very helpful!!

(I see HardWoodHead has this saw…??)


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## TheLorax (Jan 5, 2015)

> Boy, would I love to see a good photo of the Craftsman 18" scroll saw (113.207600). I picked one up at Goodwill, and then discovered that it s missing the two Blade Holders and associated blade clips. Of course, I d like to just find a set of these, but if not, contemplating making a set of blade holders somehow. A good close-up photo of these (on the scroll saw) would be very helpful!!
> 
> (I see HardWoodHead has this saw…??)
> 
> - beachblu


I'm in the same situation. I picked one up for $20 on craigslist then realized it was missing the blade holders? did you manage to fin a source for them? I wonder if there was another machine that had the same size holders that would work. Sears doesn't stock the part anymore. You can download the manual for free off sears website.


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## beachblu (Dec 10, 2015)

When my purchased copy of the owner's manual showed up from Sears, it proved to be the savior. It showed clearly (enough) how the blade holders function. Based on the graphics in the Manual, and taking dimensions from the Saw, I made two blade holders from stock aluminum for "pin-type" blades and they work just fine. A long way around, but worked!!


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## HardWoodHead (Mar 10, 2009)

> Boy, would I love to see a good photo of the Craftsman 18" scroll saw (113.207600). I picked one up at Goodwill, and then discovered that it s missing the two Blade Holders and associated blade clips. Of course, I d like to just find a set of these, but if not, contemplating making a set of blade holders somehow. A good close-up photo of these (on the scroll saw) would be very helpful!!
> 
> (I see HardWoodHead has this saw…??)
> 
> I ended up getting some other saw…....I think! It's been so long. I know it is an older Craftsman with variable speed dial on the front. I will post an image of it here as soon as possible.


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## TheLorax (Jan 5, 2015)

> When my purchased copy of the owner s manual showed up from Sears, it proved to be the savior. It showed clearly (enough) how the blade holders function. Based on the graphics in the Manual, and taking dimensions from the Saw, I made two blade holders from stock aluminum for "pin-type" blades and they work just fine. A long way around, but worked!!
> 
> - beachblu


Could you give some details on how you made them? I'm not very well versed in metalwork is it something anyone could accomplish?


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## beachblu (Dec 10, 2015)

I just used a hacksaw with blade for aluminum and piece of 1" diameter aluminium bar. Pretty crude, but they work. I just studied the graphics in the manual. Took me a couple hours of fiddling.


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## TheLorax (Jan 5, 2015)

Good idea thanks beachblu! I'll have to see what I can come up with.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I cut with a scroll saw every day of the year almost so I have Hegner saws. I started with that Harbor Freight saw and it was terrible. Broke after a very short time. If you want to do fretwork, cutting thin stock, a DeWalt is the saw to get but if you want to cut thicker stock (1/2" or more) on a regular basis a more durable saw is needed. That is why I have Hegners. I killed a new DeWalt in 20 months of use making toys.


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## Jeremy206 (Jun 27, 2010)

Its ok… But I'm done buying Craftsman products. Every time I have to fix it I find out who actually made it for them. That model is the one I have and the rubber bushings wore out. I did use it quite a bit. But I found out its the same as the Hitichi CW40 http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/594. And I just had to order parts from sears direct where they want an arm and both legs for shipping. One thing I do like is you can use both style of blades. Stright and pinned. and they are fairly easy to change.


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