# Need suggestions: which sprayer to buy for small cabinet shop



## SweetTea (Aug 5, 2016)

So I am looking to buy a new spray rig for my small cabinet shop. I have been getting by using a small Graco airless sprayer, the X5 I believe. I am now wanting to invest in a mid range turbine driven unit as the Graco airless just isn't optimal. I will be spraying mostly latex acrylic water based paints, primers, and, clear coats such as water based poly.
Budget is at or under $1,000.00. What can you guys recommend for me?

I have looked at the Earlex 5500 and I like the price, but don't really know what to get.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

There are several good products out there, and I'm sure reviews can be found for all of them. I bought a Fuji Q4 maybe 20 years ago that's still going strong. I'd love to upgrade to one of the modern guns that have better adjustment features, but in the long run, the increased ease of use doesn't justify the cost for me. I can make all of the same adjustments with mine, it just involved a steeper learning curve (which I'm well past by now).


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

With out a doubt if it were me (and this is what I did) is call Jeff Jewitt @ homestead finishing. Tell him you need help picking a spray system. He's helpful, knowledgeable and easy to talk to.

216-631-5309


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I agree, Jeff Jewitt will have good recos. That said, I also have a Fuji 4 stage (Jeff used to sell Fuji, I believe) though mines a Super Gold 4 and it has been a great unit. All I spray is waterborne and shellac with it.


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## SweetTea (Aug 5, 2016)

How is the Fuji 2 stage semi pro 2 compared to the Fuji 3 stage Mini Mite 3 or the Mini Mite 4? For my purposes of spraying water based paints and primers in addition to spraying water based poly, do I really need anything more than a 2 stage unit?

How do the Fuji Semiv


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## SweetTea (Aug 5, 2016)

And does anyone own the Earlex 5500? How would it do compared to the Fuji Semi Pro 2 stage units? I will call Jeff on Monday. Would call today but it's Saturday and I doubt that he is at work.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Fuji.. at least 3 stage ..


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

I have the 5500 and love it, but I can't recommend it for latex paints. I have had good luck spraying appropriately thinned oil based paints, but not latex. I think it lacks the power needed. I have also had great experience spraying thinned tinted lacquer from target coatings.


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## SweetTea (Aug 5, 2016)

For spraying latex primers and paints on bare cabinets and cabinet doors, is an airless sprayer going to be very good? Do they provide a very quality finish in that regard?


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

I believe that you can get a good finish. The bad thing I've heard about airless, especially for a small shop is that you waste a lot of paint filling up the hose and then cleanup is more involved. The best sprayed "paint" I've ever done was with the target coatings lacquer. It's water based, water cleanup.


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## shilothree (May 19, 2013)

I am back on this site after 2013. I have been on other finishing sites. In my opinion Lumberjocks is at the top of my favourites. You may be able to check out my gallery and finishing projects which I received with much interest. I will be entering a new project shortly which may interest those finishing gurus.
To your question Sweet Tea. I am happy to read that you have a budget set at $1000. However, this depends exactly how far you wish to pursue your finishing. I love finishing, and own a twin turbine Apollo model 1100 which I purchase back in 2002. True turbine HVLP with two p.s.i. settings between 6 and 10. Do not suggest a system using compressor. No No No. Require quality gun as well with good range of adjustment and great atomizing. Especially if you intend to spray dyes involving make up of toners etc.
I could go on. However, if you have any questions, glad to help in any way.

Shilothree


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

I have a Spraytech 2305 I'd only use for commercial spraying if I was trying to cover a whole lot of square feet in a hurry. Even with a fine tip, it tosses (bounces) a lot of material around. I like my HVLP's for anything detailed.

I wouldn't settle for anything less than a four stage system HVLP, which is what my Capspray unit is. Just a swap of the tips and I can do a fence, a fine cabinet or even a car.

I also have an Accuspray with a two gallon pressure pot. It's a conversion system with a built in compressor. It has one of the best guns. That said, I've been very happy with the Capspray gun.

I had a three stage Graco and it was a good little unit, but I sold it and kept the more versatile four stage Wagner (now Titan).

I've seen units like my four stage on craigslist for $400 several times.

If you do go with a HVLP, I recommend a remote can, to allow you to get in tight spaces.


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## shilothree (May 19, 2013)

Certainly have quite an assortment of spray systems. I am familiar with some of the products you mention.
The only system I own is the Apollo TWIN TURBINE model 1100. I know this system proven to do all my 
finishing projects with accuracy spraying 100% acrylic,light or heavy consistency, spraying dye (toners etc.)
You mention that the systems you refer to are STAGES which is not the same as TURBINE. Accuracy of turbine is precise. When the Apollo is set between 6 and 10 p.s.i. it is constant, no matter the material used or the
length of time used. You mentioned that with your spraytech, even with a fine tip, it tosses (bounces) an 
excess of material around. In my opinion, it is suggested to use an average size tip. Too fine a tip, then your adjustment has a tendency to expel more air, which does not atomize the material. Using the larger tip gives you more control. On my Apollo, I use a 1.4mm which does most material efficientlly. My suggestion is to buy an authentic turbine system such as Apollo if it is your intention to perfect your finishes with pride.
A friend of mine owns a 3 stage Fiji which is max 6 p.s.i. He must thin out when applying heavy paints etc.
Hope this info makes you do your homework and purchase one quality system and never be sorry.
Shilothree


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Looks like fuji now has a 5 stage system with 9.5 PSI


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

In the past, "stages" was another way of saying turbines. Perhaps that has changed or, perhaps, Apollo or Fuji uses different terms. Perhaps that is because you can vary the air output of the Fuji systems, which seem to get rave reviews everywhere.

The only conversion I have is, as mentioned, the Accusprayer. The other is a true turbine system. The two are night and day apart.

If I bought a Capsprayer or a Titan, the number of stages indicated the number of turbines, or fans. For example, my Graco was a "3 Stage" and had three fans. My Capsprayer is a "4 Stage" and has four fans. Most the companies are pumping out five stage units and you can be pretty sure they have five fans (turbines).

While a fan and turbine may be different, in this instance, they do the same thing - move air.

A quick note about Apollos: I know people who brag on theirs. Haven't ran one, but suspect they are worthy of their reviews, of which there are many and, with few exceptions, they are positive. Problem with them is, if you want used, there do not seem to be many of them around.

Mean time, I doubt anyone could show me a difference in an Apollo or a Fuji finish and one from my Capspayer. I can say, if I was buying new again, I'd probably go for the Apollo (I kept saying Fuji, but meant the Apollos).

Several talk about settling for a three stage. I, again, recommend a four or five stage. They are far better suited for latex and other finishes, in addition to the other usual finishes.
__
Here is a quote from the Wood Whisperer:

"Terminology

HVLP - High Volume Low Pressure. This refers to the fact that the gun pushes out a lot of finish without a lot of extra air. This cuts down on overspray and waste.

Turbine - That's the box that blows the air. It contains a fan or series of fans that drives air through a hose and into the HVLP gun.

Stages - The number of fans inside the turbine. This is how Turbines are generally classified.
Viscosity - Refers to how thick the material is and is measured with a viscosity cup.

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/choosing-right-turbine-hvlp-system/

This is from another, turbine site:

"HVLP turbine systems traditionally are rated by the number of fans - called stages - attached to the motor shaft. Single stage turbines have one fan; two-stage turbines have two fans, etc. The more stages, the higher the airflow and the higher the air pressure is at the spray gun.
what is hvlp - what is hvlp spray gun | Turbine Products"

www.turbineproducts.com/hvlp-information/


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Just for reference and to avoid confusion:

1) My Spraytech is, as mentioned, an airless. It has about 2400 psi at the tip. If you don't go to a small tip, you'll drown the project. Of course, small for it is a .13 tip, but you can get .009 tips for varnishes;

2) Capsprayers and Titans or Fujis are as authentic as any turbine out there.

Both my Capsprayer and Accuspray guns accept needle changes for a reason. A larger needle is used when shooting, for example, latex. A smaller needle is for, say, an automotive or other thinner finishes.

I can spray acrylic for an auto finish using the latex tip, but will not get the nice, quality finish I would with the finer tip.



> In my opinion, it is suggested to use an average size tip. Too fine a tip, then your adjustment has a tendency to expel more air, which does not atomize the material. Using the larger tip gives you more control. On my Apollo, I use a 1.4mm which does most material efficientlly. My suggestion is to buy an authentic turbine system such as Apollo if it is your intention to perfect your finishes with pride.
> Shilothree
> 
> - Louis Petrolia


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Fun fact on HVLP's:

A little over a decade back, I had to do a touch up on a customer's ceiling. I was tired of dragging my heavy compressor and texture gun. or my portable texture machine to small jobs. On a whim, I went to a hydraulics place and bought an HVLP fitting and installed it in a cheap Home Depot texture touch up gun. It was one of those small, plastic units that hold about a quart. They have a screw on lid.

I connected the beast to my HVLP (four stage/four turbine) and went for it. I've been using my HVLP and that same little gun ever since that first successful run.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Fuji.. at least 3 stage ..
> 
> - CharlesNeil


In my book, this pretty much summed it up. For the record, my Fuji Q4 has performed solidly for a couple of decades.

What I think is being muddied by over-analysis is the importance of a good gun, and the skill to use it. Anyone can go out and buy a high-end system, but without lots and lots of practice, they'd be just as well off with spray cans.

It's like a golfer's search for the self-sinking putter - nothing you can buy will substitute for skill and practice.


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## shilothree (May 19, 2013)

You mentioned that your Spraytech has about 2400 psi at the tip. I believe we are discussing apples and oranges. With that psi, this seems that you are talking about a compressor with an HVLP conversion gun. 
Although you are stating that stages and turbines are basically similar calling fans a turbine. I may agree up to a point. However, quality is a large factor. My Apollo 1100 twin turbine which is approx. 14 years old is still priced at $1800. U.S. I feel at this time, the Apollo system is a superior system. Fuji you say are as authentic as any turbine out there. Thank you Kelly for your interesting facts and opinions.

Shilothree


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

"You mentioned that your Spraytech has about 2400 psi at the tip. I believe we are discussing apples and oranges. With that psi, this seems that you are talking about a compressor with an HVLP conversion gun."

I have never heard of a conversion that has 2400 PSI at the tip. His Spraytech is an airless.

I believe conversion gun are suppose to be 10 PSI at the tip or less to be considered HVLP compliant.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

You must have missed it in the thread - I said I have a Spraytech 2305 airless. I also mentioned my Accuspray conversion system and my Capsprayer, all in the course of responding to the initial post, including its reference to a [apples to oranges] mention of a Graco airless.

To be clear, no, we are not talking a conversion system, like my Accuspray, which is a compact system with a built in, dedicated compressor. Rather, we are talking an airless, which is powered by a piston.

Though I've applied sanding sealer and lacquer to thousands of square feet of pine (water bed manufacturing) using airless guns, these days, I limit the use of my airless to throwing gallons of latex on a house or other large surface where time is money.

HVLP systems were not common in the world of painters until the last decade or so. Even now, only a small percentage of painters are aware of their value. For example, using an HVLP, I can dial my gun down and paint the balisters, newel posts and rails in a fraction of the time brushing and rolling would require, and I can do it without major masking. Then there is the fact my airless would require two or three gallons to do the same job my HVLP would do with a single gallon.

All that aside, I detect a hint of sarcasm. As such, are yous saying:

1) Your Ford, uh, I mean, Apollo, is the only quality out there?

2) Apollos are the only units with "authentic" turbines, or that all or a few of the well known names mentioned are not authentic ?

3) If it is your stance only your "Ford" is an authentic turbine, can you site anything, aside from sales propaganda, supporting your stance?

4) Are you treating the quotes I supplied as my opinion?



> You mentioned that your Spraytech has about 2400 psi at the tip. I believe we are discussing apples and oranges. With that psi, this seems that you are talking about a compressor with an HVLP conversion gun.
> Although you are stating that stages and turbines are basically similar calling fans a turbine. I may agree up to a point.  However, quality is a large factor. My Apollo 1100 twin turbine which is approx. 14 years old is still priced at $1800. U.S. I feel at this time, the Apollo system is a superior system. Fuji you say are as authentic as any turbine out there. Thank you Kelly for your interesting facts and opinions.
> 
> Shilothree
> ...


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Curious - what in the heck are some of you calling stages, how are they different than turbines and where can information be found explaining the difference you are indicating?


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Curious - what in the heck are some of you calling stages, how are they different than turbines and where can information be found explaining the difference you are indicating?
> 
> - Kelly


As far as I can see, only you and Louis are debating that, so I'm not sure where the "some of you" part comes in. This thread has degenerated into discussions that don't seem to have anything to do with the OPs question. It's awesome that you both have this sprayer and that sprayer, but how does that help the OP?


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

You are, of course, right. There does seem, to me, misinformation being offered or promoted about what stages or turbines are and what one needed to get the job done. The OP, obviously and as he stated, wanted to know the different choices.

No? Regardless, I'll leave it at that.



> Curious - what in the heck are some of you calling stages, how are they different than turbines and where can information be found explaining the difference you are indicating?
> 
> - Kelly
> 
> ...


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## SweetTea (Aug 5, 2016)

Great discussion here guys. Unfortunately, after some research, I don't think that I can afford a 4 or 5 stage system. Which is what I would need for spraying latex primers and paints. I am about to purchase a new 60 or 80 gallon compressor. Would I be better off buying a $300 to $500 HVLP gun ran off of my compressor as opposed to using a small Graco airless?


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Dont just look at the tank size of an air compressor, look at cfm @ xx psi. The cfm needed depends on the gun rating and how you will use it, i.e. whether time is available for the compressor to catch up. My compressor is rated at about 50% of the gun rated cfm. When doing a large surface like a bookshelf back or large table, I have to pause for 30 sec or so to let the compressor catch up.


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## shilothree (May 19, 2013)

After all the discussion, comments and ending up with a debating issue, perhaps did affect your decision. You have made a decision after some research to do what is best for you. Sounds like a reasonable move. 
Sorry Sweet Tea, I got side tracked and carried away.

Louis Petrolia


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

OSU55 is exactly right. You also need to research recommended tip sizes and viscosity.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

I have a large plantation shutter built coming up & looking at HVLP.

If I go like SweetTea and use my compressor could someone recommend a filtration/water separator?

Should I run a separate line from the line with the oiler in it?


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

ok here is the deal

turbines are a total package .. compressed air units .. will need ot be at least a 60 gallon 3 hp if your looking to do any serious spraying .. the key is to have sufficent CFM and be able to maintain it .. thus the larger tank.
you will also need to deal with moisture .. 
rwe2156 .. you have to use a different line with out an oiler.. no question

In dealing with moisture.. you want to a filtration system , however moisture while it does condense in the tank .. isnt the big issue the big issue is the moisture will condense in the air line .. a good solution is to run a line , we have used copper as it dissipates heat well.. but even 25 ft air hose will help .. then install the filter and bring the main line off of that … the key is to cool the air before it reaches the filters .. 
before refrigerated air driers .. we used to use a coil of copper in a 5 gal bucket willed with water .. to cool the air .. then the filter .. worked well..

all of this said , compressed air is great to have in the shop , but when it comes to spraying you have to be sure the air is dry and clean. A turbine doesnt have the moisture issues so it has the advantage of being ready to go and is quite portable.. Compressed air not so much .. 
while smaller compressors will spray .. the problem comes when the pressure drops and your atomization is reduced .. 
Spraying latex paint from any hvlp is an issue .. they are just not made for it ..however using a 1.8 or 2.0 needle nozzle and thinning the paint some ( 5%) it will work . a airless system is designed for paint.. it pressurizes the paint .. however while you can spray thinner materials it doesnt do as well as a hvlp.. 
for normal finishing we use a 1.3 to 1.5 needle nozzle as a standard go to .. hope this helps


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

I've been spraying finishes out of pressure pots for years.


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## Carloz (Oct 12, 2016)

> How is the Fuji 2 stage semi pro 2 compared to the Fuji 3 stage Mini Mite 3 or the Mini Mite 4? For my purposes of spraying water based paints and primers in addition to spraying water based poly, do I really need anything more than a 2 stage unit?
> 
> How do the Fuji Semiv
> 
> - SweetTea


Very different sprayers. Fuji 2 can only be used on easiest of finishes such as for example lacquer. If you want to spray waterbased let alone latex you need 3 or better yet 4 stage turbine.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Never had an issue with moisture or oil using hvlp conversion guns with an air compressor. I've had very good luck with disposable inline filters like this: https://www.amazon.com/DISPOSABLE-AIR-LINE-FILTERS-PC/dp/B000PRWJ9I. If the compressor is spewing oil or the tank is full of water, that's a different story. Equipment needs maintenance. If your hose has oil in it, your compressor probably needs rings, etc. I use a dedicated hose to spray with, but periodically check the standard hose for oil and contamination.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Never had an issue with moisture or oil using hvlp conversion guns with an air compressor. I ve had very good luck with disposable inline filters like this: https://www.amazon.com/DISPOSABLE-AIR-LINE-FILTERS-PC/dp/B000PRWJ9I. If the compressor is spewing oil or the tank is full of water, that s a different story. Equipment needs maintenance. If your hose has oil in it, your compressor probably needs rings, etc. I use a dedicated hose to spray with, but periodically check the standard hose for oil and contamination.
> 
> - OSU55


+1
Same experience here. I have a (labeled) 5 HP 60 gal air (12.5 CFM @ 40) (9 CFM @90) compressor with 30 feet of hose I use to run my Asturo WB Series , CAT, and Harbor Freight purple HVLP guns. I use nothing, just hook it up straight to the hose. Never had and contamination problems. I mostly spray shellac and waterborne clears.


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## SweetTea (Aug 5, 2016)

I will have a 5HP 80 gallon compressor. So I would think that a quality HVLP gun in the $300-$500 range would be fine for latex primers and paints as long as I use the correct tip and needle size, in addition to using a filter and separator in the lines.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Do your self a big favor and call 


> I will have a 5HP 80 gallon compressor. So I would think that a quality HVLP gun in the $300-$500 range would be fine for latex primers and paints as long as I use the correct tip and needle size, in addition to using a filter and separator in the lines.
> 
> - SweetTea


Remember my first post in this thread?

With out a doubt if it were me (and this is what I did) is call Jeff Jewitt @ homestead finishing. Tell him you need help picking a spray system. He's helpful, knowledgeable and easy to talk to.

216-631-5309


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I will have a 5HP 80 gallon compressor. So I would think that a quality HVLP gun in the $300-$500 range would be fine for latex primers and paints as long as I use the correct tip and needle size, in addition to using a filter and separator in the lines.
> 
> - SweetTea


Actually, you will have a compressor that the manufacturer "rates" at 5 hp. My old Craftsman is "rated" at 5 hp too, but somehow magically runs on a 110V circuit without popping the 20A breaker.

They use all sorts of tricks to make that HP rating as big as possible. Locked-rotor tests, inrush current. In my electrical engineering studies, my fields professor explained it all. Considering he had retired from Allis Chalmers' electric motor division, I suspect he knew what he was talking about. I also suspect they have some new tricks up their sleeve since those days to "amp" up the specs even more.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Remember my first post in this thread?
> 
> With out a doubt if it were me (and this is what I did) is call Jeff Jewitt @ homestead finishing. Tell him you need help picking a spray system. He's helpful, knowledgeable and easy to talk to.
> 
> ...


Or, you could just listen to Charles. I have a couple of Jewitt's books and videos. He is a true subject matter expert, however, he also sells equipment, so he will have a financial stake in giving you advice that boosts his bottom-line. That's not in the least bit unethical, but it's something to keep in mind. Head down to your local Chevy dealer and see how many of them will recommend a Ford product.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Well yea, but Jeff sells Ford, Chevy, Toyota and more. Sure he'll steer you to one of his products but it be the one that works for what you're doing. And you'll probably even learn something you didn't know before your done.

Jeff has earned a good reputation over time. Go to any of the woodworking site and ask about Jeff and see what you hear. I trust him and so do many other.

That being said Charles Neil is a expert in the finishing world too but I believe there may be more that one choice to skin a cat and I like to here them all before I decide on product I'm going to by.

BTW Jeff isn't going to force anybody to by his products just because you call and and ask some question. Shopping around and asking different people questions just seem like an intelligent thing to do.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

I have been very pleased with my CA Tech CPR-G gun. http://www.spraycat.com/pressurereduced.html Research for the complete kit with 2 nozzles and 4 tip/needle combinations. It will spray about anything with great atomization, allowing reduced air use. All wetted parts are SS. 3M PPS is worth the cost also. I received great advice and good pricing from Finish Systems in WI, but that was 6-7 yrs ago.


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## rwyoung (Nov 22, 2008)

I looked into getting an HVLP rig some time back and talked/emailed/forum'd everybody I could as well as downloading manuals and spec sheets. It was enlightening. One example was finding a gun in an Apollo catalog that is a dead ringer for the one included on the $99 HVLP system sold by Harbor Freight. Seems that gun is intended for the spray tanning industry…

In the end, I went with a SprayFine A401 four stage turbine.

4-stages, plenty of CFM and plenty of psi. No issues spraying anything I've put in the cup including latex-enamel paints.

Reasonably priced unit AND the needle/nozzle/aircap sets are much less expensive than other brands, same for filters, etc. I've posted the price before, but as I recall, all-in for turbine, hose, gun, accessories, spare filters and three extra N/N & shipping I was around $650.

25' (I think) hose so haven't had much problem with the air temperature at the gun

Stock gun is a bleeder type. Some consider this a minus, but I haven't had any problems so long as I remember to NOT POINT THE GUN AT WET FINISH!!!

The stock gun is a pressurized cup-under design with unlined aluminum cup. The also have a pressurized top-cup gun available. And although I haven't used it with mine, a set of hoses and adapters so that I can use the cup off-gun like a small pressure pot. Fittings are such that the 3M cup & bag sets are compatible.

The gun is a bit on the heavy side and I really did like the Fuji XPS (I think that's the one with the swivel cup?) better. I was able to borrow one and test drive. The A401 is about the same noise level as the standard 4-stage Fuji (not the Q series). With the long hose and a remote power switch, I don't find the noise objectionable.

I don't use this rig daily. If I did, the gun weight might get to me. And the bleeder gun is fine, supposedly there is a bypass built into the turbine so I could put on a non-bleeder but frankly, this gun is working out just fine for my needs. I'm using it maybe once every other month spraying mostly shellac, waterborne polys and GF "Milk Paint".


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Bump

I'd like to know how this one turns out.

What did you buy and did you call Jeff?


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## PPK (Mar 8, 2016)

Hah. Try a $12 harbor freight HVLP spray gun. Purple in color. Gravity feed. Pretty much disposable. And for all practical purposes, it is identical to the $150 spray guns. It's all I've ever used… never had a problem with the two I own. One is backup in case I don't get the first one cleaned out well enough.


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## PPK (Mar 8, 2016)

I know its not airless before anybody mentions that… lol


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