# A Satisfied SawStop User



## OldLarry (Jun 23, 2012)

You have a most unusual Saw Stop (Made in USA.) Everyone I've seen has been made in Taiwan. I have the "Professional" model 53230, 5 hp, bought in '07. Great saw. PM saws have been made in China for many years. They are owned by the same company that owns Jet. I have a PM 26 shaper that I've had for a long time. "Assembled in USA from Chinese parts." At best it could be described as a "hobbiest" level tool. I have a working shop so my views on tools may be different than some on this forum.

I'd just make a new fence face to correct the problem, better than dealing with it.

BTW IWF2012 is coming up in August. Worth the trip to Atlanta if you are into woodworking.


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## dave_oh (Aug 24, 2009)

Thanks Larry - I had 'em custom-cast and machine each part right here in Cleveland and then ship it to Oregon for assembly.

Seriously I didn't realize that it was made overseas. Their website says "100% U.S. owned, operated, and engineered" and my saw was shipped from Oregon so I assumed that was where it was built. I modified the review to fix the error.

I'm with you on the fence face. It doesn't affect my work much beyond another trip back to the jointer or a bit of sanding after a critical rip - and I'm hoping to build a good solid auxiliary fence (like Tolpin's?) anyway, so it'll be a non-issue.


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## SirFatty (May 5, 2012)

Dave, glad that you are happy with the new rig. And you should be for the amount of money it set you back!

I too work in the garage and experience all the things you mentioned. And the mobility is a big factor for me as well.

Have fun!

-Dave


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## Rick_Boyett (Aug 9, 2009)

"100% U.S. owned, operated, and engineered" is a correct statement. The engineered part relates strictly to the design and development of the tool. The manufacturing is, of course, Taiwan..

To my knowledge, only the Delta Unisaw is built in the US. IMO it is the only cabinet saw on the market that is better than the Saw Stop when take the flesh sensing technology out of the picture. Saw Stop actually makes a damn good saw.


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## michelletwo (Feb 22, 2010)

thanks for the well done review. I can't afford one, but it's nice to know about it, IF my ship ever comes in! I have only one nit to pick. As a hobbiest, I really doubt you need 3 hsp…I've been a pro for almost 30 yrs and have survived easily with a delta contractor at 1.5. Just a nit..and an opinion. Glad you got the saw of your dreams. It should last 'til the cows come home!Have fun!


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## LeeJ (Jul 4, 2007)

Hi Dave;

Great review. People might not like their politics, but you can't beat their saw.

If I were to ever have to replace my unisaw, that's the saw it would be for me too.

Lee


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Thanks for an excellent review.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## mchuray (Mar 11, 2010)

Thank for the excellent review. It is definately on my list. 
Mark


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Dave-I just bought a SawStop PCS-175 for my new shop, and couldn't be happier.

Since my grandsons (10 and 12) will be doing some stuff in my shop, I chose SawStop for the safety feature.

I was pleasantly surprised to learn that I had purchased a world-class piece of machinery as well!

-Gerry


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## Grampa_Doodie (Feb 9, 2012)

I'm in the market for a 3HP SawStop as well. Great review Dave. I do believe you've locked in my decision.

Gramps.


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## CyberDyneSystems (May 29, 2012)

Superb review, and other my own lack of need for a mobile base, I agree 100% with your assessments.

If I could afford such a thing for home use, I'd have one of these in the basement. ( I do have a fine 1940's vintage Unisaw down there, so no complaints!)

I am in charge of these decisions at work though, where we have been happily using the industrial model 5HP with 52" fence for about 6 months now. Best purchase I have ever made.

It is a dream machine to be sure!


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## agallant (Jul 1, 2010)

So do you find your self turing off the brake often? That was my issue, I always turned it off because I did not want to trip it.


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## OldLarry (Jun 23, 2012)

We've had ours 5 years and it's been tripped twice by metal and twice by a hand. Why did you buy it if you aren't going to use it's reason of being? The only time ours is turned off is when metal, usually aluminum or metallic laminates, are being cut. It's used as a misc. saw in the assembly area, not for production cutting, so it's used often and by most everyone in the shop. (15 man shop)


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## dave_oh (Aug 24, 2009)

@agallant: I don't turn the brake off. After reading the reviews here I did, though, think about the fact that it might be tripped by things that weren't permanently attached to my hand. I decided that was an acceptable ongoing cost to get everything else I liked about the saw.

When I tripped the brake it cost about $170 for a new brake cartridge and a new Forrest Woodworker II (an upgraded blade in my view). If I hadn't had the brake I'd still have needed to sharpen or replace the damaged blade anyway, and I may have needed new parts for the miter gauge it hit. So the real cost was driven by my inattention, not just the saw.

I'd advise hobbyists to bank on spending $200-$300 or so each year on blades and brakes. You may never spend it but if the thought of doing that influences your decision to buy the saw, that's worth knowing BEFORE you plunk down thousands of dollars.

So, to sum up, If you're a commercial venture I bet the cost of the false trips pay for itself in retained fingers and avoided lawsuits. If you're a hobbyist, my advice is: don't assume you'll never trip the brake. Accidents happen.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I don't like SawStop but I really like this review. It contains some compelling information for those interested in this saw. Thanks for posting.


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## dave_oh (Aug 24, 2009)

Thanks Bertha! There are lots of great saws out there and the "best" one is a very personal and complicated decision. It's great to have websites like this one where amateurs and experts alike can share their thoughts on tools and techniques to help others make the decision that's right for them.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^I totally agree 100%. Like you say, the "best" saw for an individual is an incredibly personal decision, taking into consideration size, power, phase, features, cost, you name it; and likely not in that order. When someone does the research, buys the saw, and is happy with it; I get some weird satisfaction reading about it. Just feels good, man


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## OldLarry (Jun 23, 2012)

"So, to sum up, If you're a commercial venture I bet the cost of the false trips pay for itself in retained fingers" 
So are you implying that the cost of "retained" fingers isn't worth the cost of using it if you're not a "commercial shop????" For the cost of one finger error you can buy a lot of cartridges.

Our saw has never had a "false trip" in over 5 years. In two of the 4 trips its had (2 being fingers) it ruined the blade 50% of the time. Cheap deal!

Some of these comments sound similar to the reason folks don't use seat belts.


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## dave_oh (Aug 24, 2009)

@OldLarry: Yep. Hobbyist fingers aren't worth a dime, lol. Seriously, I'm just saying that for any commercial venture that has employees using the equipment, I bet the cost-benefit analysis is very straightforward: blades and cartridges vs insurance savings.

For a hobbyist you have to ask yourself if you can absorb the cost of an occasional "non-finger" accident like I had. If a $200 trip means you have to stop woodworking for 2 months to save up for a new blade and cartridge, and you're the kind of person who always uses blade guards, riving knives, and push sticks anyway, you might be better off with a less expensive saw until you get that next promotion at work.

it''s great to hear that you've never had a false trip. I did see some reports of those on earlier versions of the technology. Later versions don't seem to have issues.


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## Marlys (Jun 26, 2012)

When it came time to purchase my "dream tablesaw", I researched and looked at several different options. However, once I told my family and friends about the sawstop, my decision was taken out of my hands. My invincible days are long past and I am very safe in the shop, but I was told that this was my only option. Although it took me awhile to pay it off, I have not regretted my decision.

I haven't had any close calls or tripped the brake. But I have enjoyed quality and precision cuts and a strong, stable, and mobile machine. I hope to never experience the safety features of this tablesaw, but appreciate that it is there. I will be picking up a new blade soon and the Forrest WWII seems like it will be the best choice.

Congrats on your new saw. Enjoy!


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

*Some of these comments sound similar to the reason folks don't use seat belts.*
I hear you. I'm a medical doctor AND a guy who recently broke his leg. Being on the other side of it and watching my bill swell to $10,000 BEFORE surgery…makes a guy think. I don't think there's anyone out there who thinks these saws are poorly made, wherever they might actually be made. And it's not always a case of assigning a value to your digits. I think most of the opposition to these saws is either 1) the patent owner, 2) the price, 3) the extended price (blades/cartridges), 4) the appearance, and 5) features. 
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I'll be the first to admit (without shame) that my dislike for the machine is mostly 1) the patent owner and 4) the appearance. Petty, sure; I am petty. I like the Powermatic. It's like a guy shopping for a Harley (Powermatic for me). There's no amount of sales pressure (safety, features, etc.) that'll sell a Harley guy a Honda. 
.
I suspect that a lot of the SawStop haters are just like me. They just have a better excuse for their opinion
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PS Marlys, the WWII is the way to go


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

What I don't like about saw stop is the way it is being "pushed down our throats" by laws.

*This should be an option for anyone, hobbyists and/or shops!*

Obviuosly a progressive shop would consider this just as an insurance policy against employee injury and lost work time/expense. But, again, it should be left up to them and not mandated by law.

High school shop classes should be required to have these and in that light, saw stop should follow Apple computers and provide this technology to schools for free or at least a very reduced cost. I can't imagine any school system forking over the money to update all of their shop classes.

*But if this becomes law, high schools will be forced to comply or close their shop classes!*

*Just don't get me started on what RAMBUS did to get "their" technology adopted!*


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I talked to a very happy SawStop owner this morning … he's an old friend who bought his SawStop about the same time I got mine. He was working on a project yesterday, and reached to retrieve a workpiece while the saw was spinning down after he shut the power switch off. His finger contacted the still-spinning blade and the brake fired like it is supposed to. What could have been a nasty gash and a trip to the emergency room turned out to be a tiny red spot on his index finger.

Though I love my saw, I do not approve of government interference.

-Gerry


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

*Though I love my saw, I do not approve of government interference.*
.
And how. I'm honestly and sincerely happy for people who like their SawStop. I hope to one day find love


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

This is indeed a very good review, and has managed to remain so through the comments. The way I look at it, with cars, houses, etc you have insurance but hope to never need it, but are glad you have it if you do need it. I feel like the sawstop brake is similar. It's a great feature that you hope to never use, but might be quite happy that you have it once you encounter a situation that needs it…


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## dave_oh (Aug 24, 2009)

@oldnovice/bertha: I think you raise an interesting and important point. If, though, the government passed a law to mandate a SPECIFIC safety technology, it seems to me that it can't also continue to uphold the patent on it without creating an anti-trust situation. So, (and I'd be very interested to hear from the lumber jock legal eagles on this) I wonder if the government would end up in a situation where it would have to either water down the law to the point where most manufacturers already comply, or rescind the patent.


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## OldLarry (Jun 23, 2012)

I've followed the development of the system from when it was first shown @ IWF a long time ago. Back then they were trying to licence the technology to other equipment manufacturers. For several reasons no one would bite. After quite awhile they decided they would have to go it on their own & have the saw made. So far the state I live in nor the feds have mandated it's use. Other designers are free to dream up a different and perhaps better system. The design of the SS system doesn't work as a retrofit. To people willing to only pay bottom $ for tools, it seems expensive. They ignore the fact that it is a quality tool with uncompromising safety. If you put no value on the safety it's hard to justify the added cost. If you compare it's price to good European saws it doesn't look like the added safety costs much.

I'll admit to liking quality tools. I run a commercial shop, employees are hard on tools! They get a lot of use and PM or the like just don't cut it.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

*I run a commercial shop, employees are hard on tools! They get a lot of use and PM or the like just don't cut it.*
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Larry, excellent post and I'm close to agreeing with you. However, are you claiming that the SawStop is superior in endurance (per your quote above) relative to the Powermatic in a commercial shop? If true, that's the single strongest endorsement of SawStop I've ever encountered outside the patent owner's own claims. 
.
I love you, Larry; but I just find that hard to stomach. I know it's a quality machine, but c'mon.


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## CyberDyneSystems (May 29, 2012)

We have yet to have any reason to turn off the safety, but the option is there when we need to cut plexi/acrylic sheeting or aluminum.

We have had no false trips.

I'm not interested in seeing this particular safety feature being made mandatory by federal law, but I would not find it odd if OSHA eventually adopted it as a requirement… there are a LOT of much sillier OSHA requirements employers have to deal with now. This one seems a natural, but I doubt OSHA will attempt to put this on the books until more stationary tools can adopt similar technology. 
It doesn't make logical or legal sense to single out one tool to have such a law. OSHA likes to make ALL your tools have functional guards covering the belts. They don't have a list of tools/machinery that require this, it applies to everything!

I am sure that soon we will see brake technology like the SawStop applied to all kinds of woodworking machinery. Once this is more feasible, I am also sure OSHA will begin to mandate this.

I feel the market will eventually push at this exact thing,. and that I am fine with.


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## CyberDyneSystems (May 29, 2012)

As for the concern that "mandating" will force school shops to close, this is 100% backward thinking.

Schools are already adopting the SawStop, and dropping there older saws like hotcakes.

Why on earth would anyone teach young novices on a saw lacking this feature when it exists?
The answer is, they don't!

the cost of the Saw Stop is NOT closing wood shops. This is such a backward way of thinking it literally boggles my mind.

Most wood shops have been closed in public schools took place long before the SawStop existed.
(in my state there is exactly ONE shop class in public schools left standing)

The closing of these shops was in the decades PRECEDING the existence of SawStop. They were closed because of concern for the students safety, and the fear of lawsuits resulting from injuries.

If SawStop and similar tech had been around in the 1980's-1990's … many of these school shop classes might still exist.

This is SawStops primary market. It is literally a "no brainer" for anyone working in education, and a minimal cost that any bean counter is willing to invest in to help protect our primary investment, ie: the student!

This does not need to be mandated by law,. the market, sane people, will adopt tech that protects students, or at the very least, protect the bottom line form lawsuits is putting saw stops in schools already.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

What percentage of public school workshop injuries are at the table saw?


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## Finisher (Jul 18, 2012)

The first time I saw a saw stop was at a woodworking show in Milwaukee. I was impressed with the nearly all black color. It remined me a little of the Nazi SS uniform of WWII. The only thing that bothered me was that the demonstrator was only interested in impressing me with how it wouldn't cut a hot dog. That's fine, but if it doesn't cut a hot dog how am I going to cut oak? He never did cut one single piece of wood with the thing at the show. Actually I thought the technology was cool. But for my pocket book a little much. Then when he told us it only would work once and then have to be replaced I was no longer interested. Not to mention, the cost of replacement. Then , if you did have one of these saws and someone dropped their lunch accidentally on the blade, you would be out of business until you got a replacement. Which means you have to buy an extra unit and keep it on the shelf until needed. Another up front expense. Now I'm not saying safety isn't important but I've been cutting on table saws for 38 years now and I have found the best safety measure is to have a healthy fear of the dangers related to the equipment. I suppose if money weren't an issue, I might have bought one of those slick black saws that day. But for myself, and a good number of other woodworkers, our dreams are always bigger than our checkbooks. The cost of safety measures need to be weighed against the number of accidents that occur. The thing that now bothers me is that the manufactures of this technology and some legislators have decided that we are not capable of taking care of ourselves and now must be legislated! Maybe there was more to that black color then meets the eye. One question. If such legislation is passed, will it create a black market for saws that do not have the safety feature? Time will tell. As far as having something like this in schools its's, of course, a no-brainer. It should be used when instructing beginners. But that should be regulated by the insurrance industry and not the government. If you have a son or daughter taking wood classes get involves with the school board and express your concern. Ya know, the first time I saw one those saws I never would of guessed it would generate so much controversey. It really is a shame that it has come to this.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

James, your comments are typical of the anti-sawstop sentiment found around here (and everywhere). I tend to agree with you, not that it matters. It's kind of seamlessly integrated with the legislation and the patent owner. That brings politics and law into it, which gets people really charged. Then it quickly degrades into patriotism or lack thereof. It usually gets ugly pretty fast.
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Like Festool, everyone complains about the price. Stop for a moment and think about what we've all paid several thousand dollars for in a given year. I think that if an avid woodworker drops even 10K on a tablesaw, it's a drop in the bucket. For those that like SawStop, there's no amount of arguing that's going to change their opinion. I happen to be a vintage guy, so most of the modern saws don't get my juices flowing. 
.
When I hear about a guy who's thrilled with his saw, whatever brand, it honestly brings a smile to my face (in real life). If a guy is pumped about his pink spraypainted Taiwanese benchtop tablesaw, it still makes me happy. That's one of the great things about this hobby/profession, the vicarious enjoyment of a tool.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Al-Well said! As a matter of fact, I spent most of the afternoon enjoying my SawStop!

-Gerry


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^And I'm smiling right now (in real life), Gerry I can almost see YOU smiling as that thing spins up when you hit the switch. That's the good stuff, man


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## mbs (May 8, 2010)

Excellent review. I agree with all your comments and scoring based on using the saw for over a year now.

I found by searching to see if a review had been written on sawstop's mobile base. You did such a great job on the review that I don't have much to add. Their mobile base is excellent and I especially like how easy it is to raise and lower it off the floor with the hydraulic jack.


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## gawthrrw (Sep 13, 2011)

I bought the same saw about a year ago myself. I was in a dead heat between the same three saws you described. At first I was very reluctant about the sawstop due to all the hype with them over the last couple years. I was really sold on the new Unisaw, that is until I went to see them in person. No matter what anyone says about sawstop one thing they cant say is that they are not quality. I thought that changing the break would get old but like the op said, its not that bad. Everything on my saw was perfect right out of the box. If I had one complaint it would be the the tabletop was "too shiny" for me. Its like a mirror, every little thing scratches it, and you all know how it is when you get a new tool lol. Especially the area near the end of the fence where that plastic piece rides across the table.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

Well guys I am now very pro SawStop. I am pro legislation to me if it saves one guy set of fingers it is well worth the loss of freedom. In my career as a trauma nurse I have seen over 100 saw accidents they always change a life in a bad way. I have had my 52 inch PCS for about 3 months now. I had no issues with my saw to date. Believe me I tried to find a flaw as this is what I do every day. I test tools and find their blems. I think it was 1994 but I could be wrong when i read the first Saw Stop article . They had retro fit a jet saw with the devise I waited for all the saw manufactures to do the right thing and make at least 1 saw with the saw stop technology. They really screwed up not buying this design. Well what I see is a very high customer satisfaction rate well over 99 % of saw stop owners would buy a saw stop again if they were in the market to buy a saw. The people who hate a saw stop have not used a saw stop. no Its clear that America is having a war on success and This is a sad thing . and its just wrong IMHO

As far as powermatic lacking quality that is not a fact PM makes a wonderful saw it is not a safe saw though and that alone makes the SS sa better product but it does not make the PM a bad product.


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## dakremer (Dec 8, 2009)

loss of freedom for one set of fingers???? Thank god you arent in power


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## dave_oh (Aug 24, 2009)

@ mbs - thanks! i love reading reviews by people who've spent a lot of time with a product and this was my chance to pay back the community with some experience of my own. Glad it was useful.

@thedude50 - Powermatic makes great stuff. Quality is excellent. At the time I bought my PCS Delta had just re-designed their saw but to meet my *personal* needs the PM design was lacking in some areas (mobility being the main one). Your mileage may vary. - b.t.w. the new drill press they're releasing soon looks awesome!

@darkremer - Thanks, and while I'm with you in preferring to have choices I doubt "thedude50" is alone in his opinion, either. Rather than starting another stream of comments on that point (there's already one in most of the sawstop threads) I hope we can keep everyone focused on facts that help people buy tools to best fit their needs.

By the way, @ gawthrrw, my table's got scratches now, too. The first one is always the hardest, LOL. At least I haven't door-dinged it with my car yet!


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