# Ask a manager of of a hardwood distribution yard anything



## lumberyardguy (May 10, 2015)

This is my first post here; I just started getting into basic woodworking and have been browsing for a while, and figured it might be fun to start this thread.

I work as a sales and warehouse manager for one of the larger wholesale hardwood lumber distributors on the West Coast.

We sell material to hundreds of cabinet shops & casework companies (commercial and one-man), retail lumberyards, furniture manufacturers, fine-furniture makers, and the occasional do-it-yourselfers walking in to grab a few boards.

I've been in the industry for nearly a decade.

I figured I'd try to offer my services first, since I'll probably be asking you guys for help in the future.

So, if you've ever been curious about the distribution aspect of the hardwood you use, ask away!


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## nailbanger2 (Oct 17, 2009)

That's a great offer, and thanks. Being on the east coast (Fla.), I imagine your answers may not be pertinent to me, but I've got one anyway. What have you heard about Walnut coming from the mid Atlantic states lately? Pest concerns, specifically.


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## lumberyardguy (May 10, 2015)

We haven't had any pest issues with our Walnut.

All of our Walnut comes from Missouri, Ohio, and Indiana.

I can tell you that prices have skyrocketed and quality has dropped within the last year significantly as the export market has increased dramatically. Any lack of good Walnut in the states is due to increasing export markets, not bugs, as far as I am aware of.

We used to get containers from a vendor in IN; you couldn't find a single hint of sapwood in that entire container; it would sell for $5-$7 a board foot a year or two ago.

Now you will find maybe 1-2 all-heart faces with a full sap-back out of every dozen boards of FAS Walnut that we sell in the $9-$12 a board foot range.

Also, lengths are very hard to come by right now. We are getting 60%-70% 7'-8' packs in our Walnut containers and having to pay a premium for 9' and longer.

If you're buying Walnut in the rough, opt for any "wide" sorts your vendor may have. I've noticed these are generally cheaper than the "superior" and "clear" grades, and have much better heart content and nicer grain cathedral than their expensive counterparts.


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## Purrmaster (Sep 1, 2012)

Thanks for the offer. I'll take you up on it if you don't mind.

How do lumberyard folks react if someone wants to come in and browse and just get a few boards?

I ask because I did this once in a lumberyard in the Portland, Oregon area and it was made fairly clear they weren't used to an average joe looking for individual boards. (On the other hand one of the guys there was incredibly nice and sold me three very nice boards). I never get more than a handful of boards and can't buy by the pallet.

Secondly, do you know of any kind of shortage of aromatic cedar? The place where I get my aromatic cedar (Crosscut Hardwoods. They're good folks) didn't have any in for a long time. And once they did get some the price doubled or tripled. This was for the same grade of cedar (common) as before.

Thanks!


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## lumberyardguy (May 10, 2015)

That can get tricky. We always try to be very accommodating with everyone, even the hobbyists getting a piece or two. However, there is a limit.

Most of of our will-call business is cabinet guys coming in and buying truckloads of plywood and pulling some solid stock for face frames.

A smaller chunk is professional woodworks (most are really nice, some can be horrible to deal with; they will bang you on price, and proceed to go out and cream your stock).

The remaining 10% is small timers.

When someone walks in that I don't know and doesn't have an account and says "I was looking for some rough lumber, can I pick out a couple pieces of Walnut?"

I say sure! What grade? These are the prices on this, that, etc.

50% of the time, the gentleman will go into the yard with his pick ticket, and the warehouseman will bring the unit of lumber down that has boards that meet his specs. He will go through a course or two for 5-10 minutes and pick out 50-60 board feet of lumber. He will get a tally, come back in, and pay for it after re-stacking his lumber and thanking the warehouseman.

He gets charged a standard retail price (15% higher than wholesale, generally), he pays, tells me how nice my Walnut is, and leaves.

These are the will-calls we love. Nice, friendly, people that know what they are doing; a nice, mutual business transaction.

However, the other 50% of the time, we get a bad customer. He will tie you up at the sales counter for 15 minutes asking what 4/4 means how much it would cost to send $100 worth of material to a mill to have it surfaced, etc. He will then go out in the warehouse and tie up a warehouseman for an hour, asking him to bring down three separate units of lumber because he doesn't know what he is looking for.

He will then proceed to turn over 500 feet of material, pull out two pieces, and then come back in and ask you questions for another 20 minutes about how much we charge to truck it to a mill for him again, and if we can deliver it to his house.

If you walk up to a sales counter and the gentleman is off putting, it is because he is attempting to evaluate if you are the first type of customer or the second.

Sometimes we get so far in the hole with people who don't know what they are doing that we end up losing a lot of money on all the wasted labor, fuel, and paper that a non-professional can generate due to his idiocy. That's why lumber folks are wary of people they are unfamiliar with.

If you can, try to establish a relationship with your favorite lumberyard. Ask them to set you up as a COD account in the system, be nice, and don't make a mess of their day or their warehouse. You'll get better pricing and better service if you're a nice, friendly, loyal customer, even if you're only spending a few grand a year.

In regards to Aromatic Cedar-our cost has actually gone down this year by $0.15/BF from the cost it had the last 3 years; and it is readily available for shipment from our mills as far as I'm aware.

Did you pull through their stock? We don't allow people to get their hands anywhere near our common grades, as one guy pulling through a unit of #1 COM & BTR Aromatic Cedar can really throw off the unit, since people will generally pull all the "& BTR" out. If you did, they might have increased their margin a bit to account for some of the outs on the last pull.


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## knotheadswoodshed (Jun 14, 2012)

As General Manager of a similar workplace, all I can say about the above statement is WOW…..


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I like to say welcome to Lumberjocks and that sure is a nice offer. I wish that you were in the Atlanta area. We used to be in the architectural molding business and also sold hardwood lumber. My brother still sells it but he only stocks the main species and he sells molding also but no longer runs the molding. He contracts with a number of small molding plants. We lost our molding plant about 2-1/2 years ago because of a fire. Nice to have you aboard.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

Here's a simple question…does it annoy you when a small-time customer comes in an orders 2 or 3 sheets of plywood? Because that's me.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

> As General Manager of a similar workplace, all I can say about the above statement is WOW…..
> 
> - knotheadswoodshed


What statement are you 'Wow'-ing? And what's the meaning of the wow?


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## knotheadswoodshed (Jun 14, 2012)

I am referring to the statement right above my previous post and it is a "wow" of disbelief.
I think BinghamtonEd got it.
According to that statement, 50% of his customers are "idiots" that waste his time.
My apologies if I misread it


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## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

> I think BinghamtonEd got it.


Nah, my question wasn't in response to anyone's previous comments. It was an honest question. I have a local hardwood place that I used to frequent, but no longer do as I buy 95% of all of my lumber rough-cut from locals. I used to love going to the hardwood place, but paying $6-7 per board foot S2S for cherry, or $3.50 for soft maple doesn't make sense now that I have a jointer/planer and I can get it all for $1 or less per board foot, albeit maybe not FAS, and surface it myself.

Now I'm building cabinets and need a couple sheets of 1/4" MDF-core maple plywood, and I'm wondering what the opinion is of the dealer when someone walks in and orders a couple sheets of that. I mean, not that it's going to change my decision either way, I need the plywood, and they're the only place I know that can provide it…


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## DavidTTU (Dec 3, 2013)

I find this post highly valuable. Thanks Lumberyardguy. Please continue being honest, I believe this is a conversation a lot of us can learn from.


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## Oosik (Oct 16, 2013)

I think he meant 50% of the 10%?

So as someone that rarely goes to the lumberyard due to time. Any advice on how to learn the lingo and work with the lumberyard to get the best board for the best price?

I know the yards want to make a buck and we want to get the best bang for our buck. What advice would you provide to a lumberyard neophyte as to achieve this and not annoy the staff?


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

I've never dealt with a yard that would have to have someone pull down wood for you to look through before you bought it. The yards I've gone to have always been, you go out there and pick your own stuff, put it back, and bring it up to the front to pay. A couple had a requirement to have safety glasses and had a rolling ladder as they stored the lumber horizontally, the one I use now (crosscut as previously mentioned) stored them vertically so no ladder needed.


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## BroncoBrian (Jan 14, 2013)

> I figured I d try to offer my services first, since I ll probably be asking you guys for help in the future.
> 
> - lumberyardguy


Great thread. You might see this live a long life at the top of the list. Thanks.

Question: Does a lumber yard want to buy stock from an individual?

I have access to a barn that is almost all American Chestnut built in 1810. The wood would be older than our country and obviously very hard to find. If I truck back a lot of this stuff, is there value to sell it or trade for milling service? I understand the rick of nails in reclaimed lumber. Rare product and high quality. Just curious what I might expect.

Colorado


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## Purrmaster (Sep 1, 2012)

Thanks for the reply. I must say I find your second type of small time customer repugnant. I can't imagine acting so rudely to the staff.

The experience I had was a kind of weird. Both staff members were polite and one of them was very, very helpful. Bless him. I certainly didn't try to haggle with them on price.

But the manager fellow didn't seem to know what to do with me. Perhaps he was concerned I would mess up his pallets or bring one down upon my head.

Regardless I've been reluctant to go back because I don't want to annoy the staff with my small time purchases (we're talking like two or three boards here). But they had lovely jarrah. I wouldn't have asked a staff member to go through the stacks/pallets for me.

As far as the aromatic cedar at Cross Cut goes all they have ever had was common grade and the price is posted right there. One of the gentlemen there had said they had to send back a shipment because of low quality. I got the impression they were having supply issues.

I did notice that the name had changed slightly. Instead of just "Aromatic cedar #1 common" it was called something like that "Aromatic cedar #1 common Tenn." I assumed that stood for Tennessee, but I could easily be wrong.


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## dschlic1 (Jan 3, 2013)

I have to say for the two hardwood lumber yards in my area, both are very easy to work with. On the other hand I am in the first 50% type of customer. When I go out to purchase lumber I have a definite list with wood type, amounts etc. However I do like to pick out the boards I will purchase and have had not problems doing so.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

I like the lumber 'yard' I use, good thing since it is the only place within 300 miles. It really is more of a warehouse, the usual species of wood are stored flat, basically in the bundles as received from the mill. They use a forklift to bring a bundle down so you can get at it.

I tend to buy in the 100-300bf range with each visit, a bit better discount. It all really comes down to who is running the forklift. One guy who seems to have the best knowledge of all the wood products they carry is rather 'strict' on picking out boards. You can only go down into the bundle three layers to avoid all the best boards from being taken. (A policy I agree with). He will measure the board widths all in a single measurement while they are on the tines of the forklift. This greatly reduces (my) losses due to rounding up each boards individual width to the nearest inch.

Another operator is basically the opposite, he just gets down the bundle you ask for and doesn't really care how deep you dig (although I still avoid going too deep). He is bad on measuring though and several times I have come up 8 bf short between what I bought and what I was billed for. With him, I'll purposely select boards that are just shy of a unit inch width to avoid most of the rounding up loss and also be sure to point out any boards that are shorter than the others (like say an 11' board in a 12' bundle).

I think the best way to keep the forklift people happy is to go in knowing what you want (minimize the back and forth they need to do), help out with shifting boards around and restacking when you are done and getting out of the way when they are loading up the forklift.

A good lumber yard is kinda like a friendship. Don't piss each other off and realize that you are buying a natural product where 'defects' are normal.


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## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

Your place rounds up? Mine rounds to the closest half, or sometimes down to the nearest inch, depending on who you get.


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## MikeUT (Sep 5, 2014)

I am in Utah, far from anything but pine forests. I get jealous when I see what people in the south/east have at their fingertips. I can't find walnut for under $10-15 per bf. In my VERY limited research prices out here seem to be 2-3 times more than what you would pay in places like KY, IN, OH, etc. I think that if I lived out there my whole world would be made of walnut!

What portion of your costs come from freight vs what you pay for the lumber and overhead? Are the prices out here higher because the dealers are just passing the shipping costs to the customer or are there other factors? I know that has to be part of it but I've always thought that dealers out here charge what they do because they can.

Hardwood Lumberyards, at least in Utah, don't have a whole lot of competition. There are very few dealers and they don't have to compete with local sawyers either. Are they charging more simply because they can?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big believer in the free market and in supply and demand. I am not complaining, I'm just curious. Great thread, thanks for sharing your expertise!


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

> Your place rounds up? Mine rounds to the closest half, or sometimes down to the nearest inch, depending on who you get.
> 
> - BinghamtonEd


Yeah, up. I'm not too bothered by it, especially since I am aware of it. Their prices are actually reasonable for the area. Walnut is still about $5/bf. Russian BB plywood is still about $20 (1/2") for the 5'x5' sheet.


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## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

Ah, Ok. They round up but you still pay less than me. Dangit.


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

I live in San Diego and about the only place to buy hardwood here is Frost Lumber.
I wouldn't say their prices are out of line but not exactly cheap.
Do you know of any other hardwood lumber yards in Southern California that might be better?

Thanks


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

Speaking of Walnut, I imagine the specialty dealers get the first dibs, but with the CA drought, I imagine that fruit/nut trees would eventually begin to be culled and sold as hardwood. Do you get anything like that locally?


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## Daruc (Apr 20, 2015)

> I live in San Diego and about the only place to buy hardwood here is Frost Lumber.
> I wouldn t say their prices are out of line but not exactly cheap.
> Do you know of any other hardwood lumber yards in Southern California that might be better?
> 
> ...


Petermans in Fontana, I'm not sure how far that is from you though.


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## Purrmaster (Sep 1, 2012)

At the warehouse lumberyard I spoke of 99% of their wood was in big huge stacks. I would have liked to pick through the stacks a bit but I didn't want to bother the staff so I didn't even try. I wouldn't even consider asking to pull out a forklift. As you might have noticed I have a powerful fear of being perceived as "that customer."


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

Locally, three used to be a lumber yard that carried all the exotics and had a huge selection of plywoods, etc. It was a wonderful place to browse as they had bins of boards in their showroom for the small volume buyer. The problem was the price. Exotics I understand, but plain White Oak was about $7/bf (this was about 10 years ago). I currently pay about $3.

It's my impression that you are considered a 'player' if you buy in the 100 bf+ range. Perhaps if you get a big project and need 100bf of a single species, they would gladly let you browse through a stack, after which you could ask for a gander at some of the other stacks. My yard has three forklifts running all the time and aside from a stack of red oak near the door, ready for digging through, all wood access requires use of the forklift. 
They need to make money somehow so I'm sure if you requested access to a stack and grabbed what you wanted in a timely manner, they wouldn't flinch. Have a cut list ready so you can determine the widths needed and if you have the cash and storage space, grab some extra. I don't ever recall throwing wood away because I didn't need it right away 8^)


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## lumberyardguy (May 10, 2015)

GUYS:

So sorry for taking so long to reply. It has been crazy out there.

Jmartell:

We are more of a wholesale operation; we don't have material in racks, with the exception of our plywood. We generally sell quantities of 100BF+, thus negating any benefits of having lumber racks. (a rack can only hold 1/2 of a unit, and we will generally go through a unit every day or two of our 20 most common species).

Bronco Brian:

Consider making your material viable commercially prior to approaching wholesalers with an offer.

Hardwood lumber distributors would definitely be interested; however, only if it is commercially viable to them (i.e. sorted and stacked into units of like widths and lengths, tallied properly, and, most importantly, 100% de-nailed and free of debris).

I would put together some tallies and photographs of the material in a PDF and send it to a dozen or so distributors that are reputable in your area; considering it is proper sell-able material, you could make a decent amount on this.

Check out Mission Bell in CA; they demonstrate a good example of turning reclaimed material into something that is viable in the hardwood market, and make a lot of profit on this material; the one thing they focus on is the story of where the material came from; something to consider.

Purrmaster:

Some lumber distributors simply aren't geared towards retail transactions. When we get customers we are unfamiliar with looking to purchase small amounts, it is often hard for us to determine how to deal with them properly, simply because we are used to dealing with people purchasing $1,000+ loads. When most of your business is volume sales, you are running low margins, and making up for it in quantity and repeat business.

When someone comes in looking to go through a stack of lumber, only needing 20 or 30 feet, it can become complicated very quickly; what if this cusotmer called on the phone and was quoted wholesale pricing? What if this is one of our customer's customers (i.e. hardwood retailers, local retail lumberyards we supply to), and we are unintentionally undercutting our own customers? Wholesale lumberyards are typically running most transactions in the 15%-30% net range, while retail sellers are probably more in the range of 50%+ ON TOP of a wholesaler's margin. It can sometimes throw a ************************* in the chain, so to speak, when the public enters a wholesale market purchasing less-than-wholesale quantities. We don't ever want to turn someone away or make them feel uncomfortable; however, hopefully this sheds some light on the "awkwardness" that may arise when this meeting of worlds occurs.

BinghamtonEd:

When someone comes in looking for material that a retail lumberyard sells, and doesn't ever purchase hardwoods from us, we really don't like it. Items like MDF, Melamine, MDO, IND particleboard, and S4S lumber (i.e. 1×6 Poplar). We are happy to provide our regular customers with these items, but, again, a customer walking in looking for $20 of MDF is generally referred to a local retail lumberyard. These items have such low costs; sales of less than 20 sheets of a given composite panel or linear footage of less than 1,000 feet in S4S Poplar generally will have a higher cost for us to process than any margin made on the sale.

Give your local retail yards the business on this one, Ed. They are set up much better for these types of transactions.

Splintergroup:

Thank you for providing that advice. That is so perfectly said, I want to print it out and frame it and put it on our sales counter. Generally, lumber folks are good, honest, fair, hard-working people. We greatly appreciate a nice, friendly customer who knows what they are looking for, doesn't try to cream our stock, and doesn't make a mess or waste anyone's time. People like you are always welcome, and a smile and some good intention like yours go a long way in ensuring that you are seen as a valued customer.

Also, do your lumberyards not use NHLA tally sticks? We don't do any rounding; every piece is tallied with a tally stick in accordance with NHLA rules (at least when they know someone is in the yard watching, I think some guys might slip some block tallies by us, but still, over-tallying creates inventory discrepancies and throws the trust of your customer out the window, so I don't know why someone would do that).

MikeUT:

$8.00-10.00BF on 4/4-6/4 and $10-12/BF on 8/4+ is what our Heavy-Heart, FAS Walnut is selling for on the West Coast.

Standard FAS (no color sort) and wide sorts (again, no color sorts) are about $2.00-$3.00/BF less than the color-sorted materail.

We will generally charge customers who want to select their Walnut themselves significantly more than delivered orders due to the large amount of undesirable material found in the average FAS Walnut board, and we try to deter people from circumventing the nature of the specie .

Try ordering your Walnut instead of picking through it, as hand-selected Walnut will generally be priced very high due to the subjective nature of the specie.

In terms of freight: I think it is fairly negligible. The cost per board foot on a 13,000 BF container load from the other side of the country will probably be equivalent to a 10,000 truckload from 150 miles away on a 53' flatbed.

Walnut prices have been skyrocketing as of late; and most mills have stopped doing above-grade sorts (heavy heart, clear, etc.) because of expanding overseas markets. Expect to pay more than what you are used to for Walnut for now.

Joel B:

I know that there are a dozen humongous wholesalers in the LA area; I am unaware of any in the San Diego area, unfortunately.

Splintergroup:

I think once you break the $1,000 mark on a will-call, you can get a little bit better pricing and be taken a little bit more seriously. Doesn't all need to be one specie; many of our delivered orders call for 50BF of five different types of lumber.

Generally, "default" prices are left in tact on quantities less than 100 BF, though. Expect to pay 5%-6% more than quantities over 100BF (it won't kill you and you don't have to take more than you need, it isn't a huge difference).


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## upchuck (Nov 3, 2013)

lumberyardguy-
Thank you for taking the time to give your perspective on the trade. It helps to see this side of the coin.
chuck


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

I have a question I'd like to ask lumberyardguy, Is there ever a time where you might tell a customer that they can't have or that I'm not going to…?

Some background first, all of my projects are small projects but I rely on a certain width of knotty Alder of 7" are larger for my projects in which I know Alder is not a large tree so can be a bit picky findings in that area,

My local lumber yard Dakota Lumber in which I do have an business account with, every time I go in to pickup 50 BF or so of knotty Alder in that width, I've always been able to get and find what I want and need but there's this one sales person that is always quick to tell me that if what I seek is 6 layers down or more then he's not going allow me to dig down that far in the stack, I've always every time I go in am able to pick out what I want and need from the top so why would the sales person say anything at all? I have another lumber yard that I'm going to start going to instead of Dakota just for that reason.


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## skatefriday (May 5, 2014)

> Yeah, up. I m not too bothered by it, especially since I am aware of it. Their prices are actually reasonable for the area. Walnut is still about $5/bf. Russian BB plywood is still about $20 (1/2") for the 5×5 sheet.
> 
> - splintergroup


Holy cow! I just paid $44 a sheet for a 5×5 sheet of BB yesterday. Location, Los Angeles.
Where are you getting it for $20 a sheet?


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

Great post and all you ever have to do is ask and you will get a lot of great responses here. Wish you were east coast, I'm looking for 1000bf of cherry.


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## daddywoofdawg (Feb 1, 2014)

blackie: what city/state is Dakota Lumber?I'm in ND and would like to find a mill or wholesaler in the area/state. by google search doesn't help or just isn't any.


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## watermark (Jan 29, 2013)

> I live in San Diego and about the only place to buy hardwood here is Frost Lumber.
> I wouldn t say their prices are out of line but not exactly cheap.
> Do you know of any other hardwood lumber yards in Southern California that might be better?
> 
> ...


Joel these guys are a little closer than some of the others mentioned Woodhill
John is a talented chainsaw carver and family friend but I have no idea about their pricing or what they might stock (I live in Hawaii so don't get there often). They have another yard I think that is more directed to milled lumber.


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## skatefriday (May 5, 2014)

A year ago I was that guy walking into a hardwood plywood shop in
the San Fernando Valley (Los Angeles) not really knowing what I 
wanted.

I tried to be polite, but I did ask questions. And sometimes I walked
out with plywood that didn't suit my requirements. Like that time I
asked for 1/4" mdf with maple veneer and ended up with something
much less than 1/4" that just wouldn't work with the two piece Freud
tongue and groove router bits I had. However, I never went back in
with attitude, but I did explain what I bought and asked further questions
to try and learn how to not repeat the same mistakes. A different shop
in LA had a true 1/4" mdf and I now go there when that's what I 
need for a door panel.

I've spent the past year buying single sheets because I was in the 
process of learning what I needed to learn in order to avoid buying
multiple sheets of stuff that's not going to work. I'm just now getting
to the point where I have the confidence to go in and buy multiple
sheets. Both from a "yes this is what I need" and a "I have confidence
in my skills to not ruin it" perspective.

The point I'm trying to make is that I'm grateful that there were
a few salespeople in a couple shops here locally that took the time
to be patient with my questions and will sell me small lots.

Thanks for giving me perspective from the other side. I do want this 
to be a long term relationship even though I'm not a commercial cabinet maker.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

> Yeah, up. I m not too bothered by it, especially since I am aware of it. Their prices are actually reasonable for the area. Walnut is still about $5/bf. Russian BB plywood is still about $20 (1/2") for the 5×5 sheet.
> 
> - splintergroup
> 
> ...


This is Albuquerque Hardwoods. The price varies quite a bit but usually within just a few $/sheet. It's hit and miss with them for the wood I like to buy (typically rough sawn, White Oak in particular), but overall they usually have what I want and at fair prices.


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## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

> When someone comes in looking for material that a retail lumberyard sells, and doesn t ever purchase hardwoods from us, we really don t like it. Items like MDF, Melamine, MDO, IND particleboard, and S4S lumber (i.e. 1×6 Poplar). We are happy to provide our regular customers with these items, but, again, a customer walking in looking for $20 of MDF is generally referred to a local retail lumberyard. These items have such low costs; sales of less than 20 sheets of a given composite panel or linear footage of less than 1,000 feet in S4S Poplar generally will have a higher cost for us to process than any margin made on the sale.
> 
> Give your local retail yards the business on this one, Ed. They are set up much better for these types of transactions.


I was looking for 1/4" MDF-core G2S maple plywood. No other place within an hour sells it. I called around, looked online, nothing. When they came back with $90/sheet, I was a bit surprised because it seems like, in comparison to other areas, it seems high. This same place doesn't sell 3/4" veneer-core ply for under $100/sheet. A3 veneer-core maple was $129/sheet. Baltic birch is about $100. I wanted to use something similar for my cabinets, but I can't afford that. Between 3/4", 1/2" veneer core, and 2 sheets of the MDF-core, I was looking at purchasing 14 sheets of ply. There prices turned me away.


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## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

double-posted.


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## lumberyardguy (May 10, 2015)

> I have a question I d like to ask lumberyardguy, Is there ever a time where you might tell a customer that they can t have or that I m not going to…?
> - Blackie_


We have discontinued the allowance of people selecting their own material in particularly vulnerable material, meaning pretty much just Alder and Walnut.

Our Oaks, Mahoganies, Cherry, etc., tend to be fairly defect free, so we allow people to go to town so that they can get exactly what they are looking for.

If someone makes a mess of a unit, the warehouseman helping him will page me and I'll jack his price up.

Also, sometimes we have to turn down orders that are excessively demanding (i.e. 100 pieces of 4/4 Walnut all clear heart 1 face for a moulding pattern run) simply because the off-fall will outweigh the profit in the transaction.



> I was looking for 1/4" MDF-core G2S maple plywood. No other place within an hour sells it. I called around, looked online, nothing. When they came back with $90/sheet, I was a bit surprised because it seems like, in comparison to other areas, it seems high. This same place doesn t sell 3/4" veneer-core ply for under $100/sheet. A3 veneer-core maple was $129/sheet. Baltic birch is about $100. I wanted to use something similar for my cabinets, but I can t afford that. Between 3/4", 1/2" veneer core, and 2 sheets of the MDF-core, I was looking at purchasing 14 sheets of ply. There prices turned me away.
> - BinghamtonEd


Those prices are literally double what our material goes for. I would definitely find a different supplier. Is this an actual lumberyard or a retail location? They definitely are not buying those products directly from mills.



> Great post and all you ever have to do is ask and you will get a lot of great responses here. Wish you were east coast, I m looking for 1000bf of cherry.
> 
> - bonesbr549


Give Wheeland Lumber in Penn a call; if you are getting a full unit, they could set you up with some pretty awesome material, or if not, at least refer you to one of their distributors.


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

My only remaining lumberyard that I visit, (W.D.Cline Lumber in North Georgia), is almost exactly as lumberyardguy has described.
Save for one issue:
I recently needed some walnut, called, and was told they had a few pallets.
I went down immediately, got in line, (they have one huge barn and usually weekdays only one guy to run it), and the guy in front of me took a long time.
Found out soon that he was walking the barn, picking out every pallet, every board of walnut, and took it all!

I ended up with some great white oak, ambrosia maple and some other maple, but boy, was I bummed.

I asked when they would be getting in more walnut, and they said they never knew, it depended on what the boys timbering out found as they brought in the logs. In other words, nothing was in their cutting or kiln process at the time.

So I made the decision to find a raw cutter - one of those guys who cut trees with the planking bandsaws, and just rick everything up.
Found one not too far from my house, and he will have a couple walnut logs planked by Saturday mid morning plus he has some already ricked for a while.

I plan on stacking it myself and I can run it through my planer.
He still wants $2.50 a bd. ft., and it will be green as grass, but as of this moment, it is my only choice. My last load from another bandsaw guy about a year or so ago, about 150 board feet was air dried, and I had some great success with it. Hope to do the same again.


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## TheWoodenOyster (Feb 6, 2013)

lumberyardguy - Two things:

1. Thanks for sharing with us. Attaining good wood is one of our biggest challenges in woodworking. It is cool to hear about the inner workings.

2. I'm not a environmentalist by any means, but this walnut talk is a little frightening. Sounds to me like it is vanishing from this country. Is there any talk of slowing down the harvesting of walnut? Is it a realistic concern that we are going to start seriously depleting the walnut supply in US if we keep on using it so much? I love walnut and I am wondering how much longer I'll be able to use it. Hopefully, this isn't something to worry about, but I'd like to hear your opinion.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Thanks for answering my question lumberyardguy , I prefer to do business with better customer service no matter what the details are, luckily I have more than one option for lumber so I'm taking my business to the competitor, I'm not going to do business with someone that doesn't want my business, the sales person didn't have to say anything at all unless I was trying to dig in the stack in which I wasn't.

As for as leaving a mess, I respect any vendors shelving and make sure I put the stack back the way I found it no matter where I am be it grocery store or where ever I am, if I knock something off the shelf I put it back.

The reason I choose Alder is due to it's price, it's easy on the pocket book and is very attractive with a finish unlike poplar hence the reason they call it paint grade.


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

WoodenOyster - I would not worry too much about the walnut. I went over to that bandsaw guy yesterday and he wasn't there. Stood me up because I found out later he blew a piston on one of his bandsaw motors.

But he called me back and wants to set up for the following Saturday, almost begged me to show up. So he has a lot of walnut, and wants to do sales. And I can get it at my local kiln mill, just have to make sure there is not a guy in front of me buying 500+ board feet of walnut when I show up.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

A good substitute for walnut is Nogal (Peruvian Walnut ) looks and smells just like our North American walnut.


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## TheWoodenOyster (Feb 6, 2013)

Cool. Thanks for the response.

Blackie, does the Nogal work like our walnut as well? I've seen it at my lumberyard, but I think only in 4/4. I'd have to call them and ask them about it.


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## esmthin (Mar 2, 2015)

Where are you located on the West Coast?


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

> Cool. Thanks for the response.
> 
> Blackie, does the Nogal work like our walnut as well? I ve seen it at my lumberyard, but I think only in 4/4. I d have to call them and ask them about it.
> 
> - TheWoodenOyster


Yes and most of the time it's cheaper as well.


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## Shadowrider (Feb 2, 2015)

This thread is fascinating for a noob like me. Some of the terminology has changed since high school. Keep it rolling.

PLEASE!


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