# Staying warm in the winter



## Nezzerscape (Jan 14, 2016)

Hello,
I was hoping some might provide me ideas on how best to heat my workshop. My shop is an unattached large 2 car garage (2 car plus extension on the side) about 20×30 (8 ft ceiling). Currently it has a wood burning stove (with blower) that heats it nicely. The challenges I face with this is it takes 30-60 min to get the garage somewhat comfortable (it's not currently insulated save for 1 in reflective sheet on the ceiling) and of course it is a "fire in a wood shop".

This came with the house and was worked OK over the years, though has limited my time in the winter months (live in Michigan). The problem is I will be needing to replace the stove (or at least some of its piping) in the next year or two. The garage has a new roof and a separate 100A/ 220v drop from the pole.
I was thinking about going with infrared (electric), but do not know how well that would work especially with the low ceiling. Any thoughts?

In this pic the dark boxy thing toward the upper left is the wood burning stove.










(Note this is a future sketch of what I was thinking about for the lay out)


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

Do what I did - move to Florida ...

M


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## Jeff2016 (Jan 13, 2016)

Wish I had some advice, I'm in the same boat, and the same state.
I currently have a small wood burner in mine as well. Maybe not ideal for safety concerns, but functional.
Not sure about the infrared, but tinkered with an electric forced air unit in mine for about a month. Then the electric bill came in. 
Thought she was going to sell my tools to cover that one!


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## RichardHillius (Oct 19, 2013)

My understanding is that infrared heaters are best in spaces where you set the temperature to a certain point and don't change it. If you are going to let the temperature drop significantly when your not out there you want something that heats the air directly and probably has a fan large enough to circulate the air quickly around the space and warm it up.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Before you even think about buying a new heater insulate, insulate, insulate. That's the best money you'll ever spend when it come to heating.

Where you live what are you options for heating fuels.


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## conifur (Apr 1, 2015)

Pellet stove, nice, enclosed/safe, no splitting/cutting of wood, can direct vent. First though insulation is your best friend.


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## Nezzerscape (Jan 14, 2016)

I know about the insulation. I am slowly freeing up space to access my walls. I also want to toss some drywall up. Right now I only have 2 (dual) 8ft florescent fixtures and outlets on 3 of the 4 walls (cannot get to the back wall, pile of rough cut from the floor to the ceiling). My thought is to figure out where things are to go then put stuff in appropriately.

So if I was to put in 4 infrared heaters close to the ceiling (pointing downward), I would want to have the on switched outlets. I would rather run the writing prior dry wall/insulation. I also have a squirrel problem (while I live in a rural area my wife does not my father's .22 method). Try opening your shop door to see a squirrel cracking black walnuts on your TS or opening up a drawer to find Chip and Dales secret stash. That said I have concerns putting up insulation/bedding without putting up dry wall.

Thoughts on heat?


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## WoodNSawdust (Mar 7, 2015)

First I would look at plugging the squirrel problem first. Find the entrance holes and plug them.

Instead of drywall consider either chip board or plywood. Both are more expensive but have the ability to hold a nail where drywall doesn't.

While you are at it consider adding some 220V outlets. At least run the wire (10-3 w/Ground) to empty boxes. It is much easier to run the wire before insulation and some form of wall board.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

WoodNSawdust is spot on. I sheathed the walls of my shop with OSB and sprayed it with a semi-gloss white enamel … bright as hell, looks good, and if I want to hang something on the wall I just drive a screw wherever it needs to be.

The biggest mistake I made was saving cash by not running enough outlets … all of the money I 'saved' I wound up spending plus the trip charge to have an electrician come out and add the service I needed for my new 240-volt tools.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Solve the squirrel problem - my rat terrier takes care of them
Insulate the heck out of the building
If natural gas is available, that may be best. Propane is down now, but won't stay that way - not a good option.

For electric, a heat pump - cool in summer warm in winter. No open flame to worry about. The caveat is it should be left at the same temp. If you are only in your shop 1 or 2 days/week, not a good choice, but if you are in there every day it is. There aren't any great electrical choices for quick warm up of a cold building that aren't expensive to operate.


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## Nezzerscape (Jan 14, 2016)

Well shop is somewhat functional. I managed to make a few cabinets for my kitchen this past summer. But because it is so packed I am not out there that much. I am only out there for a few home projects AKA work, and the yearly Halloween costume:



















(Yes the structure is made of wood, it was built like an airplane model)


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

Insulating should be your first priority. The only reason to consider infrared heating is if you plan to place yourself in the path the the IR heater. That way you heat yourself without having to warm the shop. But in a shop that large, that doesn't seem very practical.

My guess is if your stove is able to heat the un-insulated space in 60 minutes, it will do it noticeably faster after insulating. However, nothing is going to warm it up really fast if it has cooled to freezing temperatures. It isn't just a question of heating the air. That's easy. Air doesn't hold much heat.

It's the walls, ceiling, floor (probably a concrete slab) and all the stuff in there that has to warm up too. Remember, just as a radiant heater is radiating warmth, all those cold surfaces are providing a net negative flow of IR heat.

If you can heat with some type of fuel (like natural gas), you could consider keeping it somewhat warm. Like 50 degrees. That would be pretty inexpensive to heat to that level. Or you could at least use a programmable thermostat to set it to turn on early in the morning and have things warmed up for you by the time you want to work in the shop.

If you really aren't going to be out there that often in the winter For example, one afternoon every two weeks. Then electric heat might not be a bad idea. Electric heaters are much less expensive. And while electric heat is very expensive, if you don't use it that much, it might be the better choice. But an electric heater large enough to heat that space quickly, is going to be a pretty big unit and require a significant electric circuit.

Or again if out there infrequently, you could run a smallish electric heater on a programmable thermostat to come on some hours before you want to work to take the chill off and fire up the wood stove to get it toasty.

But still, insulate first.


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## conifur (Apr 1, 2015)

clin
well said!!! Only he knows all those things, and need to apply what was said here. I have read many a thread here about having a wood burner in the shop, I worked in a pulverized coal fueled Power Plant for over 20 years, it is explosive at the right mix to air and a spark. I cant imagine a wood shop that one person works in, running one machine at a time could ever get to that mix in the air. Not to mention most wood burners are not open, they just suck in room air for combustion, it aint an open fire place. 
Now if you want to spray Lacquer or Shellac in there good luck.


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## conifur (Apr 1, 2015)

Infrared does not heat the air, just objects so you will feel cold.


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## R_Stad (May 9, 2013)

I have unattached 2 car garage also. Had this 220 volt heater for several years and very happy with it. On when I'm in there, and off when I'm not. Good luck.

http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/194376-fahrenheat-ceiling-mount-automatic-electrical-garage-heater.html


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Having heated my 24×28 x10 shop for a few years with wood, I'd consider staying with that. Anything electric is going to be ungawdly expensive to run, and as conifur pointed out the infra red heats objects so you may not get the effect you are looking for. Back to the wood stove, it wouldn't be a good first choice but you're already set up for it and contributing to the longer times to warm up is the lack of insulation. Even so, at some point I'd consider putting in some source of heat..it wouldn't be electric, but a combustion furnace. I heat my current shop (we moved from the one mentioned earlier) which is 24×32x8, R40 ceiling and R18 walls with LP and last year during t a very cold winter burned a metered 150 gallons of LP. It's normally closer to 100 gallons a year heating to to 65º when I'm in there; most days for 8 hours, and 50º at night.


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## Nezzerscape (Jan 14, 2016)

Thank you all for the input!

Yes I know the insulating it key!

This is what I am taking away from the suggestions thus far (all are good but some fit my needs more that others):

1) Very long term: run gas the the garage to keep it @ 45-50 then higher when working 
2) Medium term: replace the wood burning stove with one that uses pellets for times when I will be spending the day out there.
3) Short term: play with portable electric heaters (including infrared?) to take the chill off me then I run out there for an hour or two cut a board or other things.

Based on when I what I find out with #3 I can determine if I want to go with a 2.1 option of semi-permanent electric heat for brief times as well as till the wood burning stove kicks on.

Please note I am still young (mid 40s) with kids so it will be many years before I retire out to my shop.


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## bc4393 (Apr 10, 2015)

My dad lives in Michigan and for years he used a big infrared in the garage while refinishing machinery as his second job. He upgraded to a unit like the mondaine II here (looks just like it) and keeps it at 50 until he goes out there and cranks it up. heats it in no time. Cold winters he hates his gas bill but it heats faster than the infrared.

http://www.lskair.com/Modine.html


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## Ger21 (Oct 29, 2009)

> 1) Very long term: run gas the the garage to keep it @ 45-50 then higher when working


If you can keep your glue and other items that can freeze in the house, you don't need to run the furnace all the time. My garage will go from 30° to workable in a few minutes, but it will take an hour for everything to start warming up. If I'll be working for several days in a row, I'll leave it on, but If I won't be out there the next day, I turn it off.
Insulation is mandatory, and a ceiling fan help to blow the heat down and warm the concrete. Without a fan, the floor will stay cold for a long time.


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