# What oil to use on router bearings???



## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

I've been using a light weight general purpose oil for the bearings (mostly shielded), but was wonderin' what you guys use. Seems like the high speed might require a different viscosity or type. Am I just worryin' too much?
Bill


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## Handtooler (Jul 24, 2012)

As an advanced novice craftsman, and not knowing any better, I use 3-n-one sparingly and seldom. Not after every use.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

router bearing lube






http://www.amazon.com/2-Ounce-Router-Bit-Lube/dp/B00092DAJW


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## Kazooman (Jan 20, 2013)

I watched the first video and I have to say I was not impressed. I always get my hackles up when someone says "what you don't understand" or similar words. I do understand router bits, and the guy in the video has some issues. He starts out OK, but then goes on to equate a round-over bit with a beading bit, claiming that you can just swap out the bearings and make a round-over bit into a beading bit The beading bit has the added duty of cutting s nice clean edge above the curve. Round-over bits are not designed to do this and they won't do this. Slap a smaller bearing on a round-over bit and you will get a mess. Put the correct bearing on a beading bit and it is a round-over bit.

Didn't notice anything about lube in the video. I have not watched the other one yet.

I would recommend a light weight oil and be certain that you are not using anything with silicone in it that might be a problem with finishing down the road. Oil the bearing and then wipe off any excess that does not seep in.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Kazooman
Here's is "the guy's" web site. http://www.cn-woodworking.com/ "Charels Neil" Note the furniture he has made!
He has been a professional furniture maker for 30+ years,He teaches many classes all over the US ,He makes 40 major pieces of furniture a year, teaches classes on line and has dozens of Videos on woodworking an finishing,an has written a book on finishing.
*There is a good chance that he might just know a little something about woodworking and how router bits work !*


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## Handtooler (Jul 24, 2012)

+1 a1Jim Boy, is Charles ever helpful. He spent four extremely helpful and trying attempts for me to correct white cup and glass rings from a table that was recovered from a cafe/bar that had closed. His last piece of advice did the trick. I didn't have to strip the table as he advised not to, since it was an heirloom sample of furniture well worth saving. Man, do I ever admire that person. He's an accomplished woodworker of the highest level.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

James
I confess I just read the google description that included router bit lube in it. But Charles did mention there was router lube in the kit. I guess I owe you 3 minutes )


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## Kazooman (Jan 20, 2013)

a!jim and handtooler: I didn't go to the website, since I am certain that he has made a ton of impressive stuff, otherwise Woodcraft wouldn't have made the video. However, that does not excuse him from providing erroneous information to novice woodworkers in the form of a Woodcraft video. What he said is BS. The guy comes across as a "know it all" A-hole. Perhaps he does "know it all" but if he continues to record videos with misinformation then he is not doing the community any favors.

I don't "know it all" but I do know a few things and I know that this "A-hole" is wrong. Such a condescending attitude!


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## Maggiepic (Aug 26, 2010)

Easy with the name calling… If you don't agree with Charles, fine. You don't have to jump off a cliff about it.
Oh and by the way….I've changed bearing sizes on "round over bits" many times to get a shoulder, i.e. bead, with no problem at all and vice versa with beading bits. I'm sure every manufacturer does not make their bits identical to each others, so maybe yours won't do this, but many will.

This is a typical roundover bit. If you look at it there is no reason that a smaller bearing could be installed and achieve a bead. Most carbides are sharpened far enough in. Just the opposite to get a roundover from a bead.










Bill….sorry about that, we're a little off topic. Myself I have never lubed a router bearing and have never burned one up or had one go bad. I have used many bits and probably have 70 to 80 on hand right now (some are wore out and should be pitched or sharpened…tool hoarder confession). I'm sure A1Jim has his fair share too as well as Charles. Even though I don't treat my bearings properly, I'm sure lubing won't hurt.

A1Jim…I do enjoy watching Charles videos but I have to agree with James. He does tend to drag things out a bit.


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

Oh hell no…........... you don't know what you're dealing with . . . . . . . . .


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

Sorry for continuing the derail…

Kazooman
The info that Charles Neil gave on the round over/beading bit is 100% correct.
Ive used numerous different brand names over the years, Velepec, Dimar, Whiteside, Freud and probably 2 or 3 more that I don't recall the brand names of. No issues with putting smaller bearings on any of them to cut a bead.

Freud even suggests/recommends it on their website.

http://www.freudtools.com/p-143-rounding-over-bits.aspx

Like Charles Neil or not…you owe him an apology.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Kazooman
What he said was correct ,I've done it myself.Perhaps if you watch it again you might understand it better.I guess how people come across to us might be a reflection of how we view people in general . Your entitled to your opinion and I mine. Charles is very knowledgeable and kind and giving person,He helps anyone that emails him with questions with out asking for anything in return (like Handtooler),he has built the things of beauty an auctioned them off to send the proceeds to people in need.There are many other things I could list that would only embarrass him. 
So I guess it's up them who know him and others to evaluate who the A-hole is.

James 
Charles is from the south and is what I call down home folks (real people) His delivery is just who he is. I have no problem with it. This might be a generational thing or a regional thing. One thing I know is he is more knowledgeable than any of the faster talking TV or on line woodworking personalities .

Bill
I'm sorry for high jacking your thread. I will not post anymore on this thread.


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## longgone (May 5, 2009)

I have also changed bearings on a roundover bit numerous times to achieve beading..
I use a lightweight oil on bearings to lube them…everything from router bearings to thrust and guide bearings on my bandsaw. whenever I clean bearings to remove pitch or crud and then lube them after soaking with acetone.


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## ward63 (Dec 12, 2009)

I've used graphite in the past and it has worked great.


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## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

Bear fat.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

I soak all my router bits in "Bug and Tar Remover" from the auto parts store to keep them clean. This also seems to keep the bearings well lubricated.


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## vipond33 (Jul 25, 2011)

Nobody builds "40 major pieces of furniture a year", nobody.

To lube your bearings lightly (and often), put half a drop on them where they are split and rotate by hand till it's evenly spread. Rotate again as it seeps in. 3 in 1, 5w30 - anything will help. Flip it over, do the other side.
To super lube them, dismount and place on top of a light bulb till hot and then drop it in a bottle cap, Bud, Coors Light, any one will do. Fill the cap with oil to cover the bearing. When it cools it will draw the oil in. This works well for eking out the life on a bearing that is getting stiff or is gummed up. Other than that, don't worry too much, standard bearings are awful cheap.
gene


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## SamuraiSaw (Jan 8, 2013)

*"He starts out OK, but then goes on to equate a round-over bit with a beading bit, claiming that you can just swap out the bearings and make a round-over bit into a beading bit The beading bit has the added duty of cutting s nice clean edge above the curve. Round-over bits are not designed to do this and they won't do this. Slap a smaller bearing on a round-over bit and you will get a mess. Put the correct bearing on a beading bit and it is a round-over bit."*

Let's just say this is a load of (insert your own droppings here).........

And he wants to call Charles Neil ignorant? Obviously kazooman needs to talk to somebody besides the tool world dude at home depot.


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## kdc68 (Mar 2, 2012)

*Kazooman* - You understand router bits eh ??..... If you can't figure out that a beading and a roundover bit are interchangable then you obviously have a lot to learn….insulting LJ members will not help your ignorance of woodworking basics

I watched the first video and I have to say I was not impressed. I always get my hackles up when someone says "what you don't understand" or similar words. I do understand router bits, and the guy in the video has some issues. He starts out OK, but then goes on to equate a round-over bit with a beading bit, claiming that you can just swap out the bearings and make a round-over bit into a beading bit The beading bit has the added duty of cutting s nice clean edge above the curve. Round-over bits are not designed to do this and they won't do this. Slap a smaller bearing on a round-over bit and you will get a mess. Put the correct bearing on a beading bit and it is a round-over bit.


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## RjGall (Jun 16, 2008)

Kazoo you sure know how to make friends !! For only being a member for 44 days you might want to rethink why you joined Lumberjocks . 
I'm curious and would like to see some of your work and maybe some pics of your shop.
You must be a master woodworker because you have an opinion for everything and everybody who posts something ….Just saying … {P***


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

My Eagle rabbeting bit came with 7 different bearings to make different size rabbets!


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## Purrmaster (Sep 1, 2012)

Oven cleaner works for me when I need to clean a router bit. Oddly, it doesn't seem to work as well on saw blade teeth.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

"Nobody builds "40 major pieces of furniture a year", nobody "

Wanna bet , This isn't a hobby for me , its how I make a living , makes for long days and long weeks, but the truth is, thats actually a little conservative , there is a big difference in "wanting to" and "having to" , A HUGE DIFFERENCE

Speak of what you know , not what you "think"!!!!!!!!!!!! Be slow to compare as well .

Round over bits make beading and beading can become a roundover simply by changing the bearing, been doing it for 40+ years .

Do not use oven cleaner , its corrosive , and can cause your blades to rust, it has lye in it. Try some Krud Kutter (Lowes) , works excellent for bearings and pitch removal.

3 in 1 oil is what I use , seems to work just fine .


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## Kazooman (Jan 20, 2013)

Charles:

I do owe you an apology. I was very rude and I was the "A-hole", that's for certain.

I was confused. I was thinking of a corner beading bit (see pic) a completely different beast that can't be made from a roundover by changing the bearing.

I think I need a time out. I may return some day.

Please accept my apology.


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## vipond33 (Jul 25, 2011)

Well, I guess I've been told, my apologies. I build for a living too, have for a long time and can not even begin to approach that output. I'll take your word for it.
gene


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*vipond33*- You may make a few pieces a year. Charles makes a few more. He has a shop specifically designed for it, he has help, he has decades of experience to speed things along, and he has a waiting list of people wanting a Charles Neil crafted piece. That doesn't take anything away from you, I'm sure your a great woodworker too. But 40+ pieces of fine furniture a year is certainly not an exaggeration.

As for his style, I admit that it conflicted with my "Yankee" way of thinking the first time I saw it. But who am I to rip on it when he is by far the most watched professional woodworker out there. His mantra is "woodworking simplified", and while his southern style is just part of what he brings to the table. He also spends loads of time on sites like this helping people with their problems, free of charge.

No, you haven't "been told" off, but when someone who does so much to teach others gets a bad rap, people come to his defense. Like him or not, you can't deny the guy knows woodworking. And once you get to know him, I think you'll like him 

*Kazooman*- You're a stand up guy for apologizing. You'll do fine here on Lumberjocks.


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## vipond33 (Jul 25, 2011)

Stumpy, you make a rather broad and incorrect assumption here. My own best guess is that roughly 8 million dollars worth of woodwork has come off my bench in the last 40 years - freestanding, built in, exotic and pedestrian.

So not quite "a few pieces a year". I build for myself, friends and family as well - all not counted in that total.

As Mr. Neil has remarked above "Speak of what you know, not what you "think". Be slow to compare as well ".

I took issue with the initial statement, not the man, whom I know nothing of. I was incorrect and said so.
gene


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## BigJerryWayne (Aug 23, 2012)

I use Dupont teflon non-stick dry-film lube on a lot of things with great results.


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## Handtooler (Jul 24, 2012)

Let's quit the fault finding and traducing of others, and return to the thread's subject matter, or close. I feel Mr. White has his answer, There are several satisfactory lubes to select from, but lube occasionally and keep the lacs off.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

MR. WHITE?
Dang! I got a promotion. Thanks Handtooler. Just goes ta show ya that we southerners have manners.
If ya ever get to Tupelo, send me a pm. I'll put on the coffee (or sumpin else).
Thanks all. I guess that a regular light machine oil is ok. Just wondered if there was a "best" product.
Bill


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

This is my favorite.. it is made by bostik


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## Purrmaster (Sep 1, 2012)

Oven cleaner causes bits to rust? I thought it was solvent based. Looks like I'll need to look for some Krud Cutter.


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## Purrmaster (Sep 1, 2012)

Oven cleaner causes bits to rust? I thought it was solvent based. Looks like I'll need to look for some Krud Cutter.


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

Krud Cutter works.


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

The best way to treat ball bearings is dont clean them, dont oil them. They are sealed either with a metal shield or a plastic/teflon/rubber seals and they come with the best grease in them that can be put in them. When they are no longer smooth feeling, replace them. The reason for this is they develope some side to side slop and no amount of cleaning or oiling can prevent this, the bearing will feel "crunchy" when its time to replace it.

The best thing you can do is just brush it off with a soft brush once and a while and thats it.


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## SamuraiSaw (Jan 8, 2013)

The bearings on router bits are* NOT *sealed bearings, so disregard that misinformation.

I bought a small tube of bearing lube from Eagle America several years ago. I do my best to put a couple of drops on the bearing after use, and the bearings generally outlast the bit. The only real exception is laminate trimming bits. The contact cement invariably gums the bearings up to the point of no return.


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

Tisk, tisk is this type of thing still going on here?


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

*They are sealed either with a metal shield*

There is nothing you can do to a ball bearing that is any better than the way it came from the factory. When it starts to feel "not smooth" spend the $5 and replace it.


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

James I know the differences, I used shielded and sealed interchangably. Once upon a time I spent hours doing this….. with both the metal shielded, and teflon or rubber sealed bearings.






And finally after years realized they actually lasted longer if I did nothing to them except brushed the dirt off and let the grease inside the bearing do its job. When they got crunchy feeling I always thought it was dirt, but it was actually the tiny balls rings being slightly dented, those tolerances are very tight.


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

Pat is 100% right. I spent my whole life working with bearings in R&D and attended many seminars at manufactures. By attempting to lubricate a sealed or shielded bearing or blowing them with compresses air you contaminate the grease inside the bearing causing premature failure. Some bearing manufactures if not all design there bearings with a life expectancy and user specifications, with that said I feel that bit manufactures do not do diligence when choosing a bearing and just slap in any bearing that meets there measurable tolerances. One reason is cost if you got a hi-speed hi-heat bearing it could cost as much as you pay for the bit at retail. 
Sorry to disagree with the mainstream.
Pat, sorry you had to learn how these things work the hard way, I also learned the hard way.


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

While I respect both of ya'll experience. All manufacturers I researched recommend lubricating most bearings…. and that the shielded type of bearings primarily used in woodworking are best lubed with an oil. The bostik I recommended is designed specifically for this process, with max penetration, and also repeals extra moisture. That is why I brush the bearing clean, and lubricate it, as well as dress the knife, when I put it away. Ready to go the next time. This article from a distributor shows that %40 of pre-mature bearing failure on improper or lack of lube. Contains some links to other articles. I contacted this person, to get another inside take on this subject. He is the head of the forestry and wood working dept. at emmerson bearing co. I will post his response.


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## Surfside (Jun 13, 2012)

Shielded bearings can be soaked in thin solvent. Special lubricants are available everywhere too.


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

The problem with using thin oils on bearings on the ends of router bits is they operate at a fairly high speed and the oil gets forced out of the bearing quite easily from centrifugal forceand the balls splashing it out much like your tires hydroplaning on a wet road when you go to fast, that and the thinner oil doesn't provide as much protection as grease can.

My ball bearing experience comes from competitively racing RC Cars for over 20 years, that and my experience as a mechanical engineer designing things like gearboxes.


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

*Pat*... The link I provided encourages the opposite. It states oil for high speed, high temp applications. The article states quite clearly that the "hydroplaning" effect you are talking about is exactly what is desired. It also talks about the effects of air turbulence in the bearing, and other factors. I don't doubt your experience, and the article does say a lot to lead one to believe that no lube, as you have suggested, can be much better than the wrong lube. Can you be specific why they might recommend oil over grease?

I checked again and mis-quoted the article. They suggest %55 of failures due to lubrication problems. I still look forward to mr. Holts response, and will post it here.


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

Joey, you have to take into account the size of the bearings also. As with the bearings that I painstakenly took apart, flushed with trichloroethane and put the latest greatest lube on, router bit bearings are quite small and damage very easily.

I was at a large race once (I actually traveled to race toys) and happened to pit by some factory guys (grown men paid to race toys!). At these races the participants look for every little competitive edge possible, and I would say 99% of the participants would buy ball bearings, take the shields off and flush out the grease with 1-1-1 trichloroethane (wish I understood how bad that stuff was for me at the time) and put a drop of the "special rc bearing lube" on them. This special lube was just some repackaged oil that the RC car company charged $8 for a two ounce bottle…...anyway back on track. The factory guys and I got talking about some custom made parts I had on my truck and how they thought they looked cool. They happened to see me open a brand new package of motor bearings and get ready to disassemble them to clean out the grease, one of them said that they last much longer if you never clean them or take out the grease. I figured what the hell, this guy just embarrassed me out on the track. Those bearings lasted longer than the last 3-4 sets that I had previously and they were the same brand I had always bought. I noticed that the grease did not fling out and attract a ring of dirt like the oil did and although the tires would not spin under no load forever like they would after I cleaned them that it did not affect my lap times a bit. I figured hey I can use the lost time tuning motors and working on suspension setup or practice instead. In all I think that bearing cleaning ritual that just about everyone went through was just an OCD exercise.

The bearings at the ends of roundover bits are roughly the same size as the RC car bearings that I was so accustomed, so as I got older and started woodworking all I ever did to router bit bearings is brush the dust off and keep them in a noncorrosive enviroment and haven't had one fail yet.

After this long winded story the conclusion is that it is my belief that for these small bearings that are used in somewhat dirty environments that the factory grease is the best the bearing will ever be because it provides good protection, acts as a seal itself to keep out the dirt, and doesn't fling out as easily to attract dirt. As an added note the article was probably written for general bearing use, and compared to most uses RC Car and router bit bearings are fairly low cycle use bearings and aren't expected to be in rotation for thousands of hours of duty time.


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

Example of the 'special oil' I mentioned above

http://www.trinityrc.net/shop/index.php?route=product/product&path=69_101&product_id=252

and what it is….

http://royalpurpleconsumer.com/product-categories/racing/#!xpr-racing-oil

Timken is one of the largest ball bearing manufactures, and notice how they have many different kinds of grease, but dont sell a single oil.

http://www.timken.com/EN-US/products/lubrication/products/Pages/default.aspx


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

Some more geekery from me…...sorry but bearings, gears etc are things that I really geek out about and could talk hours about.

NMB is the company that manufactured every "small" ball bearing that I ever used in RC cars. Notice on page 4.10 of this PDF that they recommend the oil for low temperatures but not high temperatures.

http://www.nmbtc.com/engineering/documents/NMBBallBearingsEngineeringSection.pdf

Unlike the paper above that cites 55% of ball bearing failure from improper lubrication I believe (strictly from my use) that most small ball bearing failure comes from brinelling, I have to admit that this is the first time I heard this term used, I refered to it as denting of the balls and rings.

http://www.nmbtc.com/bearings/white-papers/bearing-care-and-handling.html


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

Well, that is a well written response. I have a lot of experience with NMB from my skatin' days…. (another sport some adults still get paid to play.) I am in the camp with you of don't mess, replace when they crap out. Overspray from the blade dressing is probably the best thing, as it repels moisture from getting in. If I get the response from the gentleman from emerson bearing, I will have better questions to ask, and will post that reply.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

"Skatin' days"????

Do you mean Roller Derby?


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

Although I knew and know a lot of the derby girls in Austin over the years… I was talkin' boards… and that doesn't mean on the boards.. it means skateboards.


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

My grandmother use to watch roller derby and NWA wrestling on TV in the 80's and yell at the TV, not sure what was more fun watching her or the TV.


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## Pinkylabmouse (Feb 16, 2016)

I like the Bear Fat answer…............. just sayin'.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

I SURE didn't mean to bring out all the irrelevant BS. Just wanted to know if there is a need or a "best" lube for bearings. SHEEEESH!
I'll go lube an ax.
Bill


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## Kirk650 (May 8, 2016)

I use light machine oil. I don't use it often, but sometimes a little lube is needed. MDF will put grit in your bearing.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

I've been using router bits with bearing for 40 + years. I do nothing to them but clean the outside off if I get something on them(usually contact cement). I haven't had a rash of bearing failures. In all those years I can only remember a couple bearings that didn't out last the life of the bit.

Cleaning oiling and fussing with these 5 dollars bearing is hardly worth it.


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