# off topic stuff



## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Well we live on 13 acres. My neighbor, a good distance away in the past has threatened to shoot my dog. My dog has never threatened him, or been on his property. Our dog, Largo, is a pure bread GSD pure black. A very family oriented and loving dog. He loves our horses, our chickens, he plays with my one neighbors donkeys, they even smooch sometimes through the fence, it is sort of cute. He is young and active, playful.

The neighbor that does not like him, it is due to Largo's size and intimidating look. The guy tells me a wolf like mine (oh yeah, Largo is not a wolf :O) will kill his goats just for the fun of it. Basically this is a guy who is in fear of our family dog for no reason.

Our first run in with this neighbor actually involved a jet black wild hog that ran his and my property line. The guy mistaked the black hog for my dog. I know this because I pursued the black hog myself since it was on my side of the property line. My dog was inside the home at the time. That is when the neighbor told me my dog, which was in my home at the time, was on his property and that he fears for the safety of his goats and he will shoot my dog, will not hesitate. I tried to educate the fella, even told him about the hog that he had thought was our dog.

Well, yesterday I was out of town installing, my parents were prepping the pad for our shop foundation, we had some more loads of base brought in and they removed the fence back for the trucks to get in. Largo went to explore and I am certain he was likely playing as he is very playful. He went onto another neighbor's property, the neighbor who does not like him seen our dog on our other neighbor's property, and shot him twice. So that neighbor called me and told me his neighbor seen my dog on his property and shot him.

So my dog was not even on his property and he shot my dog. We made a police report but no arrest will occur because it is certain the neighbor will claim my dog was aggressive with livestock on the other neighbor's property.

So the law states if a dog is aggressive and placing another farm animal or person's life in danger, lethal force to defend is legal. So you can shoot a neighbor's dog as long as you say he was threatening livestock. If you all knew Largo, you all would agree the dog loves to run and play, and is not a threat to any livestock.

Largo is still alive. It appears he was hit with buckshot. One side of his lip area hangs loose but does not seem severe. He had a small puncture also on his side. He does not act like he is in pain, but he is more lathargic and has a sad look on his face. He does not possess that smiley attitude he typically possesses. He loves to nuzzle and is a very affectionate dog, and now he just has a sad look. I know I should take him to the vet but I don't believe he has been terminally injured. I do believe he will be fine, slight disformation of his lower lip otherwise I just hope his mood gets happier.

Here is a few pics of him:



















Also, please consider one other fact about our area. We live among a heavy population of Coyotes. They hunt daily in packs. Their population is very strong and they are a huge threat to local livestock. We have a 7 year old and 5 year old daughter, and Largo provides a little sense of protection from area wild life as he loves to spend time with our girls while they are outside.

I really only give this sad story because I view many of you on LJ as friends. If you have something making you feel sad, sometimes it helps to just get it out and find a listening ear. Thanks for listening/reading guys/gals. Jerry


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## Pdub (Sep 10, 2009)

Sorry to hear about Largo. Hope he starts feeling better soon. Dogs are pretty tough, it will just take a little while. Largo is a beautiful dog!!!


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

I also mentioned the coyotes because the coyote population is the real threat to this neighbor's goats, not my family dog. Tough when a guy does not even know who his enemy is and who it is not not. In this case, he views a friendly dog as his enemy, when in fact the coyotes are his enemy.

Oh yeah, and I want to mention, this neighbor's female anatolian shephard (the neighbor who shot my dog), got onto our land 2 months ago and pursued our female lab (we have 2 dogs, a female lab, a male GSD). I know 2 female dogs will potentially become aggressive with each other quickly. So I secured my dogs quickly and allowed that neighbor's wife to come onto my property to retrieve their Shephard. In hind site I should have retrieved my 30-06 and put their dog down. No way the dog would have survived if I had done that. But that is not my nature. While I perceived their dog as a threat to my dog, instead of going to kill their dog, which really is not in my nature, I allowed them to retrieve their dog safely.

Their Shephard has also chased my deer off this last season while I was hunting. It was a real bummer watching a group of deer run off but I did not go to shooting their shephard, which was certainly acting out of aggression towards wild livestock. Which helps feed my family throughout the year.

Oh well.


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## Bogeyguy (Sep 26, 2012)

I think you should press the police for action. If they don't, go to a magistrate and press charges.


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## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)

I believe I'd be putting a beat down on this bastard if it were me. 
Yeah, Yeah, I know. I'd probably get arrested but by the time I was done, he'd certainly understand the difference between a family pet and a wild dog (wolf)


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Sounds like a tough situation. Hopefully he is able to make a full recovery. Any chance of shifting the vet bills to the shooter?

Beautiful dog though, I know that I would be upset, but better to not take revenge. Then the situation can really spiral out of control. I agree to try to keep the dog on your property for the future, would hate to see him get trigger happy again. Good luck.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks for the nice words. And yes, we will be securing fences and the electric fence is a good idea. Out here, we utilize regular ranch fence with 2 barbed wire at the base to prevent digging under. It is very effective. So I just need to mend some fences. However, we typically keep our dogs inside our immediate yard area with a very secure fence which provides us about 2 acres of space. Just too bad I am building and my secure fence became unsecure when the trucks came in. Of course we also have a very large kennel that has 6' fencing, we use it a lot for Largo but my parents did not think about putting Largo in the kennel at that time and since I was out of town. Oh well.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Yes he should see a vet.


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## Delta356 (Aug 2, 2010)

I hope your dogs recovers…..People treat animals so bad these days…... Keep an eye on this guy…. He seems trigger happy…. Stay strong largo…. take care larry….

Thanks, Michael Frey
Portland, OR

FREY WOODWORKING INC.


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## Gassit (Apr 10, 2012)

Hi,

None of my business but I think you should take Largo to a vet as soon as you can manage it.

The vet will make sure Largo feels better and I'm sure you'll feel better knowing that you've looked after your old mate Largo. Think of all the happiness he's brought you.

So, if circumstances permit, take ol' Largo to the vet.

And I raise a glass to people like you…Cheers!


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

I would get that dog to a vet ASAP and make the neighbor pay any and all bills. 
I can't believe that he was allowed to shoot something on his neighbor's property in the first place , and that the police don't have any laws regarding discharging a weapon near a dwelling.


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## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

Jerry … send the man a registered letter telling him you plan on suing him. C-Copy the police department. 
Ask for their assistance in writing. C-Copy the newspaper.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Come on Jerry, if you choose to live out here (I too live in the country outside San Antonio) you assume the risks.

After all, you said "...Largo provides a little sense of protection from area wild life as he loves to spend time with our girls while they are outside…. " . And you don't think that applies to either your neighbor OR your neighbor's livestock? HUH? You can't have it both ways Jerry. You just admitted that you have your dog because of its capability to be violent to others outside. Is THAT why I have neighbors' dogs running on my property as well? And why have those dogs growled and barked at me as I stand on my OWN porch? Geez… go back to the city already. There is a reason it is called "...the country…"


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## Kazooman (Jan 20, 2013)

Yep, get Largo to the Vet and keep all the bills. Get a sworn testimony from the neighbor who saw the shooting. At least take the shooter to small claims court to pay all of the vet bills. The dog was not on his property. He apparently has no proof that the dog was ever on his property nor that the dog was ever a threat to anyone or any livestock. He had no right to shoot it, barring some specific legal claiim that the dog was a menace. He (or his agent) shot him anyway. What are the local laws regarding shooting on someone else's property? Did he shoot across YOUR property? You really need to press the issue of firing a weapon near residential dwellings.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

TAKE YOUR DOG TO THE VET! You can't love him that much if you don't take him to the doc. What are you…cheap? What if your wife had been shot? Would you self diagnose her injuries also? Oh she's ok…just a hanging lip and a little bit of buck shot. She'll be fine in a couple of weeks…


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## Moai (Feb 9, 2009)

I'm really sorry to hear such a sad story. I'm sorry much more for you to have such a "cave man" as a neighbor.
Don't waste your time suing, hating, fighting or doing anything to a person like that, if something like that can be called a person. If I can give any advice, get away from that person as much as you can, today is your dog…..what's next?


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## PittsburghTim (Jan 16, 2012)

Mike. WTF? A dog wanders off and is shot. What risk does one assume when they move to a rural area? Should they expect some inbred, mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging, make-him-squeal-like-a-pig-Leroy a-hole to shoot a dog that stray onto someone else's property. It wasn't even on the shooter's property. What gives him the right to go onto someone else's property to shoot yet another person's pet.


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## Maggiepic (Aug 26, 2010)

+1 PittsburghTim


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## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

on second thought he probably new the buckshot would kill the dog.

If he really wanted to kill the dog it would probably be dead.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Tim and Gary, that is quite the biased attitude as well. Thank you for justifying my point boys. And unless you were there, you do NOT know that the dog stayed on the owner's property.

I have caught and turned in dozens of strays while living in San Antonio, so I have no sympathy for those who let their animals run. Dogs will pack when given the opportunity and even the most loving family pet can act dangerously when out on its own. Largo the dog was off property as the OP admits.

*TEX HS. CODE ANN. § 822.042 : Texas Statutes - Section 822.042: REQUIREMENTS FOR OWNER OF DANGEROUS DOG*

_"...(a) Not later than the 30th day after a person learns that the person is the owner of a dangerous dog, the person shall:

(1) register the dangerous dog with the animal control authority for the area in which the dog is kept;

(2) restrain the dangerous dog at all times on a leash in the immediate control of a person or in a secure enclosure;

(3) obtain liability insurance coverage or show financial responsibility in an amount of at least $100,000 to cover damages resulting from an attack by the dangerous dog causing bodily injury to a person and provide proof of the required liability insurance coverage or financial responsibility to the animal control authority for the area in which the dog is kept; and

(4) comply with an applicable municipal or county regulation, requirement, or restriction on dangerous dogs.

(b) The owner of a dangerous dog who does not comply with Subsection (a) shall deliver the dog to the animal control authority not later than the 30th day after the owner learns that the dog is a dangerous dog.

(c) If, on application of any person, a justice court, county court, or municipal court finds, after notice and hearing as provided by Section 822.0423, that the owner of a dangerous dog has failed to comply with Subsection (a) or (b), the court shall order the animal control authority to seize the dog and shall issue a warrant authorizing the seizure. The authority shall seize the dog or order its seizure and shall provide for the impoundment of the dog in secure and humane conditions.

(d) The owner shall pay any cost or fee assessed by the municipality or county related to the seizure, acceptance, impoundment, or destruction of the dog. The governing body of the municipality or county may prescribe the amount of the fees.

(e) The court shall order the animal control authority to humanely destroy the dog if the owner has not complied with Subsection (a) before the 11th day after the date on which the dog is seized or delivered to the authority. The court shall order the authority to return the dog to the owner if the owner complies with Subsection (a) before the 11th day after the date on which the dog is seized or delivered to the authority.

(f) The court may order the humane destruction of a dog if the owner of the dog has not been located before the 15th day after the seizure and impoundment of the dog.

(g) For purposes of this section, a person learns that the person is the owner of a dangerous dog when:

(1) the owner knows of an attack described in Section 822.041(2)(A) or (B);

(2) the owner receives notice that a justice court, county court, or municipal court has found that the dog is a dangerous dog under Section 822.0423; or

(3) the owner is informed by the animal control authority that the dog is a dangerous dog under Section 822.0421.
- See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/HS/10/822/D/822.042#sthash.XqhYJ7Xd.dpuf..."


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## Maggiepic (Aug 26, 2010)

You're not much of a dog person are you Mike. 
You're quoting an ordinance for an " OWNER OF DANGEROUS DOG" Neither you or I am familiar with this dog and cannot assume that it was a dangerous dog or a gentle lap puppy. I will admit I am taking Jerry's word that Largo is a friendly, well behaved dog. If that is wrong then I am bad for taking his story at face value. I have no other reason to assume that he made this up.

Jerry…as others have said, get him to a vet. My sister also had a black German Shepard and he was the biggest baby around.


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## PittsburghTim (Jan 16, 2012)

Mike, now with your infinite wisdom, you have personal knowledge this is a dangerous dog? Where in the statute does it give permission for one to shoot a neighbor's pet when it is on a third person's property? Mike, the only point you have is the one on your head.

Just because other, irresponsible people in your area (it sounds like this area really draws them in) leave their hounds run free, you assume that Jerry's does the same. That would be as accurate as me assuming everyone's IQ drops the further South they live based on your comments.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Tim: "...Just because other, irresponsible people in your area (it sounds like this area really draws them in) leave their hounds run free, you assume that Jerry's does the same…"

No assumptions Tim. Jerry said he had let the dog run free. The dog was off property.

Jerry: "...Largo went to explore and I am certain he was likely playing as he is very playful. He went onto another neighbor's property, the neighbor who does not like him seen our dog on our other neighbor's property, and shot him twice…"


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

How far did that guy have to shoot? From his property across your property and onto your neighbor's property where the dog was? Sounds like he certainly used the opportunity to show his stuff.

Hope your dog makes a complete recovery.


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## PittsburghTim (Jan 16, 2012)

Mike, if you say one stupid thing, should one assume that everything that you say is stupid?

Having the dog visit the neighbor's yard while the fence is down during a delivery does not mean that he let's his dog run free. If one is to believe Jerry (and there is no reason not to do so), this was a one time issue. I wonder how long his neighbor waited by his door just itching for an opportunity to show his manhood by shooting the neighbor's pet.

What about the question of shooting another person's pet on someone else's property? Is that covered by the statutes? No answer for that.

I really wish the only tools on this website were the ones used for woodworking.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks for all of the encouraging comments. Largo is at the vet, he was put under for surgery. It was a minor surgery of the mouth, the vet was actually able to tell exactly what happened based on the two injuries, neat how that works.

For the record, Largo is a very loving dog, loves to run our back fence line with the donkeys. He loves the donkeys. Largo loves to rest his head in people's laps to get his head rubbed, he loves to lay on the ground while my daughter's lay up against him using him as a large snuggle pillow.

Also for the record, our fences are good and secure, we do not allow our GSD to roam free. It just happened that while I was on a Job site, my wife was at the shop, my parents working at our land prepping our foundation and we had loads of base being hauled in my paps had to remove a portion of fence and a lapse of thought with the trucks and everything going on, Largo decided to check some things out.

Our fence is secured now.

I will post again in about 30 min from now to tell the vets assement, which if accurate, is extremely revealing. It does appear there is a predator in our area, and it is not Largo. I'm on my HTC EVO, so when home I will post vet details.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*
TEX HS. CODE ANN. § 822.012 : Texas Statutes - Section 822.012: CERTAIN DOGS AND COYOTES PROHIBITED FROM RUNNING AT LARGE; CRIMINAL PENALTY 
*
"...
(a) The owner, keeper, or person in control of a dog or coyote that the owner, keeper, or person knows is accustomed to run, worry, or kill livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may not permit the dog or coyote to run at large.

(b) A person who violates this section commits an offense. An offense under this subsection is punishable by a fine of not more than $100.

(c) Each time a dog or coyote runs at large in violation of this section constitutes a separate offense…"


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## Maggiepic (Aug 26, 2010)

Glad you took him to the vet Jerry. Sounds like he is going to be fine.
Now what to do about your neighbor…?? Have you ever walked Largo over, on a leash, and let your neighbor meet him. Just a thought..maybe a little late for that.

Good Grief Mike…give it a rest…the mans' dog was SHOT for no apparent reason. If Largo was "accustomed to run, worry, or kill livestock, domestic animals, or fowls" the neighbor should have called the police, not shot him. Maybe the neighbor should be charged with reckless discharge of firearm.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

DKV, gotta love ya . I think your comment about me needing to take my dog to the vet and my DIY injury stuff with my wife is a funny comment. Good one!


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## PittsburghTim (Jan 16, 2012)

Mike,

You still cannot seem to get it. Where does it say that shooting this dog on another person's property is OK? As a gun rights advocate, idiots like this shooter just help the gun control movement.

I must admit that you make me feel stupid… for arguing with a dullard like you.

Good night, Mike. I hope you sleep easy knowing that this sweet dog has been sent to the vet by a vigilante dog shooter.

Jerry, I'm glad that you took your dog to the vet. I'm not sure why there was any delay, but I'm glad there is no permanent harm. If Mike is any indication, you may not have picked the best location to raise a family. Keep us posted.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Ok, I am on my laptop now. I will go ahead and relay what has been told to me by my wife, she is reporting what the vet has told her. I worked on the job site and personally did not get home until a couple hours ago.

Just give me a few minutes to write out the post.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

I am not certain if Largo was shot with a slug, such as a .22 or buck shot. At this time I am leaning towards a .22.

Largo had a very minor injury on his back hip. The injury was more of a scrap/scratch or as the Vet suspects, was grazed by the bullet. The Vet believes the two injuries come from one shot. The Vet speculates the shooter was at close range at the time of the shot. The Vet indicated according to the injury to the K9 tooth area, it appears Largo was in a standing position with his head turned looking sideways or back, when the shot went off grazed him on his back hip and caught him in his K9 tooth area. According to my wife, the Vet feels the dog is lucky to be alive and the vet believes the shooter's intention was to kill the dog.

I know Largo very well, we love Largo as one of our family members, it has been a sad few days. But I am certain, knowing Largo, he was not hunting any livestock, he might have been being curious, adventurous, after all, his short life has been limited to a small kennel and also to the fenced in 2 acres around our home. But what I am fairly certain of, given the Vet's report, Largo was being hunted.

Another thing I have given a lot of thought to. A year back, when the wild black hog got loose on our property, ran the fence line and that neighbor thought it was our black GSD, he threw his rifle over his shoulder and pursued what he seriously thought was our dog on his land. I admittedly do not know a ton about guns other than my own 30-06, which is the only gun I have ever owned. But the neighbor's gun has a scope on it, it appears a bit smaller than my 30-06. So I am guessing with the scope it might be a .22 slug, but could be something else.

What I do know, and this is just based on my own personal deer hunting experience with my 30-06, is a scope on a gun is good for a 'still as a mouse, sniper type' of shot. Like in my case, if a deer is moving, even at a slow speed, it is difficult for me to keep the cross hairs on the 'sweet spot' of the deer to take any responsible shot. So my thinking is, he has a scope, similar to mine, he likely focused in on Largo with the scope while Largo was standing still, some sound made Largo turn his head and he took the shot. If this is how things played out and Largo was standing still, then it cannot be argued Largo was hunting any neighbor's livestock.

Oh, and about Mike's post regarding the TX statutes, it does not relate to our dog. It relates to a coyote, wolf or any other domestic animal that hunts or preys on livestock. A non or under fed dog might move to hunting for his own food. But both of our dogs thrive on a healthy diet of Diamond dog food. When they get their fill daily, the next thing on Sadie's mind is a nap, the next thing on Largo's mind is finding someone or something to play with . So I believe a dog with a full belly is not so much inclined to hunt. But the TX statutes Mike is posting can and is utilized wrongly whenever someone has viciously shot a neighbor's pet and that someone wants to avoid criminal action against them. Such as in this case, the neighbor is inclined to state Largo was either ready to attack him or hunting domestic livestock in order to save himself from going to jail and being prosecuted.


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

Best thing you can do for HorizontalMike , is to just ignore his comments. 
He trolls this site just to get people up in arms. It seems to make his life complete when he does , and then he moves on to his next victim. 
If enough of us ignore him , he will eventually go away , or possibly make him seek a new medication to help him be less of a richard.
I hope Largo comes through o'k and gets back to being his playful self again real soon : )


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Jerry, thanks for taking Largo to the vet. Animals depend on us. Good luck with your neighbor problems. Maybe HMike has a vacancy in his neck of the woods they could relocate to.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Mike I just read your original post, not sure how it slipped by me. I never stated anything about owning a dog because of it's capabilities of being violent towards others. I just don't think a pack of coyotes or any other wild potential predator are as likely to come around our immediate fenced in 2 acres if 2 domestic dogs are present.

Actually Mike, I think I will stay in the country, I like it a bunch. I have been able to get into hunting deer some, I enjoy being surrounded by cattle, goats, horses, donkeys, etc… We have 2 horses and 6 hens ourselves. We love horseback riding and have 2 great Geldings, we love our chicken eggs. And now that we are building a 40X80 shop on our acreage, I am getting very excited. All of a sudden I will be able to go to work in the shop in the morning without turning on any vehicle  Our current shop is much smaller so getting to spread out and having ample room inside our shop for several machines we have acquired since opening our cabinet shop will be nice. Yeah, I think I am staying in the country Mike!

Mike, if your close by, why don't you relax and come over and build something with me, my wife and Largo together.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Jerry,

I like your style. You are a true gentlemen.

I hope that Largo has a quick and complete recovery.


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## huff (May 28, 2009)

Jerry,

I've been following your thread; glad to hear Largo is going to be OK. Can't wait to see your new shop when it's completed and Largo standing in the doorway welcoming everyone.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Yeah well, how many of you are wearing a scar (actually two) from a neighbor's dog who 'would never bite anyone'? I am, and have had those scars for nearly 50yr on my right hand, thus my own direct experience with someones loving pet that would never harm anyone or anything. Everyone has a right to their opinion. Mine is actual FACTs and those facts may have solidified my opinion, but they still are facts. As far as all those little minds full of defamatory rhetoric, they show their own ignorance and bias.

Also, during the following half a century I keep/seeing that same refrain in its many versions,... "...Largo provides a little sense of protection from area wild life…" tied in with something like "... If you all knew Largo, you all would agree the dog loves to run and play, and is not a threat to any livestock…"

You can't have it BOTH ways. You bought/acquired the dog for "protection" (your words not mine). So what does that mean? Your dog will pop out a cell phone and call 911? Hardly… Get real, this dog already chases your own animals as well as "...plays with my one neighbors donkeys…" (AKA chases).

As a victim of a neighbor's dog's violence, I have no sympathy for those who continue to espouse that THEIR dog would never harm anyone or anything. Geez Jerry, you have seen all of the local San Antonio reports on dogs that kill and harm:






And HERE as well:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/san-antonio/1328122-help-dogs-attacked-me-acs-doing.html

"... I need your help, San Antonio. On Sunday morning, my husband and I were walking our dogs on leashes when we were attacked by 3 rottweilers. They broke thru their owners 6 ft tall wooden fence (busted right thru the planks) as we were walking by. They attacked us and our dogs and no matter how many times we kicked them and screamed they would not stop. Luckily some people stopped and with their help we were able to scare the dogs away. I ended getting puntures on my thigh while 2 of my dogs were seriously injured, 1 needing stitches and the other required 2 surgeries.

I did file a police report and animal control 'quarantined' 2 of the 3 dogs but I was told yesterday that they will be returned to the owner after 10 days if they didn't have rabies. WTF? What about the fact that they mauled us and ripped my dogs hindquarters to bits? Let me also point out that these people live directly across from an elementary school and children have to walk by their yard every day. What more can I do? I don't want these dogs returned to their owners, but ACS is saying they can't put them down. Help!..."


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

Jerry, I'm glad Largo was not critically injured. Your neighbour's actions seem particularly cruel and vindictive. I don't know how you have remained so calm.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Jerry - glad to hear Largo got to see the vet. A very unfortunate situation. Hope he heals up well and everyone in the neighborhood can live peacefully together.

Mike - its clearly obvious that your life experiences trump everyone else around here and those scars come with some baggage. Im pretty sure Jerry just invited you over to his shop yet you continue to throw veiled barbs because a topic in general doesnt jibe with your Rationale. Im pretty sure that your wisdom and expertise in so many different arenas would serve your community well. Have you ever thought about running for office bud?


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

"Have you ever thought about running for office bud?" 
Mayor Mike McCheeseHead here , and I want to put all of your dogs to sleep , because I was bitten as a child : ( 
At least the dog was smart enough to realize what he was dealing with at the time and didn't want to be friends.
Not all dogs are bad , but some of their masters are.


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Oh my!

Hopefully your dog is doing better Jerry. Keep us updated.


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## PittsburghTim (Jan 16, 2012)

Dusty,

You the man!


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

*PTim* , just read your signature and am still laughing : ) Thank you.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Here you go Dusty… and neighbors had nothing to do with it.

 
*Family in home while toddler mauled to death by seven dogs in yard*
ELLABELL, Ga. A toddler who slipped outside through a doggie door was mauled to death by her family's seven dogs in the backyard while the attack went unnoticed by the child's mother and other relatives inside their home, a southeast Georgia sheriff said Thursday.
<snip>
Smith said the dogs looked healthy and well-fed, and investigators found no signs they were being used as fighting dogs by their owners.

"They said they have never been aggressive to other people," he said. "Why they got started I have no idea."


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## DaleM (Feb 18, 2009)

Mike, so you had a bad experience with dogs and you hate them all now? A small percentage of dogs that attack means no one should be allowed to have one in the country? Go away Mike! You sir, are a troll. 
Jerry, sorry to hear about the dog. Mine are a big part of my family and I wouldn't appreciate anyone shooting at them.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Yep, eat your own family. Facts are facts, no matter how you personally want to interpret them. You are full of venom while I am full of facts. And THAT makes me a bad guy? This child's dogs ATE her, you know, their OWN family! *THIS WEEK!* Give me a break!

How the heck can you criticize the facts? LOL!


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## DaleM (Feb 18, 2009)

Mike, for every fact you post about a dog attack, I can post 1000 pics of dogs pretty much not doing much of anything, including attacking and that is also a fact so you know what you can do with your facts. Also, you say I'm full of venom, but who jumped in here and told Jerry to go back to the city? You just can't stand other people thinking differently than you and you have proven that over time on here. I've ignored that, but now you want to take your hatred of dogs and try to convince other people of that? Get a life.


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## IrreverentJack (Aug 13, 2010)

Jerry, Glad your dog will be okay. Mike has a point here. If you had control of your dog he wouldn't go off your property and he wouldn't have been hurt. You should appreciate that the neighbor warned you and that he is a bad shot or didn't shoot to kill. Probably won't be so lucky next time. -Jack


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## RonInOhio (Jul 23, 2010)

Good neighbors don't let their dogs run free in the neighborhood . At least in this part of the country. Leash law ? Might be different down there.

It always amazes me how people can be so blind to the fact that their large dog,just might frighten anyone not its master or not really a family member.

But also , good neighbors don't shoot their neighbors dogs. This is probably illegal as well.

Hope the dog fully recovers and the neighbor with the trigger finger is brought before the authorities.

Surely shooting dogs like that isn't legal or allowed.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Yeah its too bad a man is so willing to kill my daughters pet. Aubrey, she is 7 years old, gets bored of playing with her younger 5 year old sister Addison. So As I watch Addison, she will call out to Largo so he will run with her. It is so cute to watch her as she runs fast as she can and Largo trots right behind her. largo grows tired of it and stops, she notices and will again call out to Largo and again he will trot behind her. I fear this neighbor might confuse this play fullness and take a shot at my dog while playing with my daughter and if he misses and kills my child, I will quickly become a murderer myself. Now it is family's pet, next it will be me, my wife, either of my daughters.

The fact is, things happen from time to time, just 2 days ago a ranchers goats got loose and was all in the road. I did not take that as an opportunity to kill goats. A few weeks ago, one of my neighbors cows got on my land, I did not even shoot at the cow. A few months ago, another neighbors herd of cows got on our land, all I did was saddle our horse and herd his cattle back to his land. In fact, the exact neighbor who shot my dog, his own Anatolian shepherd got onto my land 3 months ago, all I did was allow that neighbor come onto my land peacefully to retrieve his dog. No, I did not even shoot at them or their dog.

My point is, things happen. It is not every day that we are building a 40*80 building. Just how many 40*80 buildings could I build on my land. So our normally non penetratable fence had one moment of weakness and this happened. I am not neglect full, in fact when it happened, I was coming home late from working out of town, my parents were here prepping our foundation and 18 wheelers were coming in and out of our fence.

This neighbor has started a war. I have not done anything revengeful to him, but this neighbor has created a situation he will not enjoy long term. I have accurate range from around 400 yards and I don't miss. He should not ever expect me to offer his family any grace, and should the day he shoots one of my girls with stray bullets…


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

*RighteousMike* , you can't blame the dogs for the dumb-ass owners negligence. 
Why would anyone on this earth need 7 pitbulls at one time in their yard ?

*There's Nobody to blame but the 18 year old Mother not watching her 1 year old properly.*
None of the other "adults" noticed the baby climbing out the door either. 
They were Probably too busy making moonshine or molesting each other to watch the baby. 
The majority of the dogs were young as well , and like all young creatures, they like to play. 
Unfortunately for the child , it was the plaything of the moment. 
The story doesn't say that the child was eaten as you imply either.
Sad that the baby had to die in this manner , YES . Killer dogs on the loose , NO. 
All dogs are bad , NO ,so give it a rest.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

And I am a good neighbor, I don't let either if my dogs run free. A one time weakness in my fence does not make me a bad neighbor anymore then my neighbor being a bad neighbor when his Anatolian shephare got onto my land, what about my other two neighbors who have cattle that get onto my land from time to time, are they bad neighbors, the answer is "Hell No". What about the rancher who's goats were in the road, is he bad because of a momentary weakness in his fence, "Hell No".

I do believe there are neglect full owners. I think there are neglect full parents. I think there are more neglect full parents then there are killer dogs.

I used to work for DCF in FL for 6 years as a Child Protective Investigator. I recall a case, without going into detail, the family had a small puppy, baby and puppy were in home alone while parents got high outside. Baby soiled them self, huge amount of time passed with parents outside and puppy ripped diaper off the baby and let's just say things turned out bad. The baby lived, but what occurred was a direct result of the neglect full parents.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

I am not a fan of pit bulls. We used to have a neighbor down the road who ran a back yard pit bull rescue. It was scary to me. At times his dogs would get loose and fight each other and would actually kill each other at times. One of our neighbors dog got loose and went onto that property and the pit bulls killed that neighbors dog. The neighbor with the pit bull rescue has since moved. But wow, here this neighbor who shoots my daughter's pet is surrounded by coyotes, actually had a pit bull rescue just up the road from him which was a very real risk to his livestock. And he sees my daughters pet as more of a threat than neighboring pit bulls and wild coyotes.


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Without doing any research, but just a guess on my part. I could imagine more children are killed and seriously injured every year by their parents than dogs. I think we need protection for other humans more than dogs. Even pit bulls.

Jerry, hopefully your dog is doing better.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Yeah, he's doing great. Back to being playfull.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Jerry, Mike is a cat guy. They automatically hate dogs.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Lol


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Sorry to hear about your dog being shot Jerry ,it's sounds like you controlled your dog very well. Some of those country folks make up their minds quickly and no matter what you say or do they won't change their mind. Pets become family members and you feel for them when their sick or injured .


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear about you dog Largo. I hope that he makes a full recovery. I agree with all that you stated above about dogs,livestock,living in a rural setting,and your dog Largo. Coyotes can be a problem and judging from your pictures of Largo I would want to keep him closer to the house because of the coyotes. Is he you only dog? The coyotes catch him by himself and he's gonna be toast.
I see you live in the SA area, I have kinfolks and friends in the NB/ San Marcos area and they have had a decline in the local wild pig population this last year. I know of 4 people that have seen a 90 lb cougar in that area. The county ext. agent said they typically range over a three county area. So If you start noticing fewer wild pigs in the area you may consider keeping an even more watchful eye on things.


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

HM, there's not an ounce of sympathy is there? No mention of how tragic this is for the girl, her family, just gleefully put the facts out there to prove you are right. You resurrect this thread after 25 days to do so, did you do a little dance when you read this in the paper? Disgusting.


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

.


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## PittsburghTim (Jan 16, 2012)

It's scary to think that this man had anything to do with shaping the minds of future generations.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*Dale: "...Mike, for every fact you post about a dog attack, I can post 1000 pics of dogs pretty much not doing much of anything, including attacking and that is also a fact so you know what you can do with your facts…."*

According to the Humane Society:
"...Aug 12, 2011 - Dogs. There are approximately 78.2 million owned dogs in the United States…"

So Dale, you then openly admit that that there are approximately 78,200 "attack" dogs, as you call them, in the United States alone. Thanks for putting that into perspective.


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

Jerry,
Somehow I missed this post the first time around, but in Iowa if the animal is "domesticated" and shot on your own land and has not attacked another, can be up to a Serious Misdemeanor to do so. If the perpetrator is not known the media gets contacted asking for any one that may have been a witness or have some knowledge. We even have a "joint commission" called the "Crime Stoppers" that has some funding from various sources that will give rewards for credible information leading to an arrest. After that arrest, the media is recontacted to "bring closure" to the story. I have even heard in some cases where an arrest was made at the intial contact and the media mysteriously was contacted by an anoynomous source…. 

If the individual has any friends or works with others…they sometimes are very publically embarrased…..I'm just saying…...


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## bigkev (Mar 16, 2011)

First off, sorry about the dog but I would have taken either of my dogs to the vet straight away. Second, my neighbor would be missing some livestock. Third, he would tote a serious ass-whipping next time I ran into him. Fourth, Mike is a prick of the highest order who only comes to stir the pot. He's already been banned one time now he's back to show what a dickhead he is again. Ignore him.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

your neigbour is trigger happy I just hope NONE of his animals never stray onto your property know what I mean?alistair


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## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

Solution…. e-collar and in the ground wire fence… You don't even have to burry the wire…. just lay it on the ground and in a few years it will be buried with leaves anyways.  Your dog will train to it in just a day or two. The cheap Home Depot fence kit, with extra wire will work as well as the expensive ones from Cabellas.

As for the neighbor … perhaps you misheard him and he actually threatened to shoot your kids…. call the police and tell them that and the jerk will spend $20K and the next 2 years proving his innocence….


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## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

another option is to build a very ugly looking fence just on your side of the lot line and post your property no trespassing every 24" along the fence…. Then mount a game cam and snap a picture of the neighbor if he touches the fence that is on YOUR property… or if one of his animals pees on it.

Criminal trespass right there buddy.


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## RiverWood (Nov 4, 2010)

I am sorry to hear your friend was hurt and happy to hear he is doing better. I am sure it was done by the same type idiot that would say, "Some of those country folks make up their minds quickly and no matter what you say or do they won't change their mind" Best wishes for Largo.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

LittleKev: "...Mike is a prick of the highest order who only comes to stir the pot. He's already been banned one time now he's back to show what a dickhead he is again…."

I would infer that you were the "attack dog" if you feel the need to engage me, however, in other news it is true that I do not like dogs. *DOGS ARE DANGEROUS TO KIDS.*

Here are a just a few reasons WHY, and according to 
*The American Humane Association*:

 An estimated 4.7 million dog bites occur in the U.S. each year (I under-estimated when I said 78,000. I am sorry about that!)
 Nearly 800,000 dog bites require medical care
 Approximately 25% of fatal dog attacks involved chained dogs
 *Approximately two-thirds of bites occurred on or near the victim's property, and most victims knew the dog!*
 At least 25 different breeds of dogs have been involved in the 238 dog-bite-related fatalities in the U.S.
 Approximately 24% of human deaths involved unrestrained dogs off of their owners' property
 Approximately 58% of human deaths involved unrestrained dogs on their owners' property

*Dog Bites and Children*

 *50% of dog attacks involved children under 12 years old* (THAT is half of the 4,700,000 bites EACH and every year, JUST in the USA!)
 *82% of dog bites treated in the emergency room involved children under 15 years old* (THAT is 656,000 kids being bitten so bad they needed EMS each and every year!)
 *70% of dog-bite fatalities occurred among children under 10 years old* (Pay attention to this one folks because your dog is killing kids!)
 Bite rates are dramatically higher among children who are 5 to 9 years old
 Unsupervised newborns were 370 times more likely than an adult to be killed by a dog
 65% of bites among children occur to the head and neck
 Boys under the age of 15 years old are bitten more often than girls of the same age


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## DaleM (Feb 18, 2009)

Mike, it appears you just vomited crap all over this thread again. Please be more careful.


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Wow…lets round up all dogs and kill them. They are clearly not good animals. Mike has given us the "facts". Let all of us realize we were wrong…dogs clearly are bad. Thanks for letting me know my lifetime of having dogs as pets and companions was lunacy and dangerous. I am lucky to be alive! LOL

238 fatalities…is that in the history of the US? That is like a bad yr in Detroit.


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## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)




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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Some very nice comments from everyone except Mike. Matt has some good ideas. I know someone who had an angry tenant, the tenant, during eviction, falsely accused the landlord of assault and the land lord spent large amount in legal fees and a lot of time defending her innocence.

I just got home from the job site, long successful day, have been watching comments from my phone. This has been quite the discussion thanks to Mike. I have never felt I ever wanted to get into blocking someone, but Mike needs to be blocked.

Mike, do you believe in the old saying, "let's agree to disagree and let it rest.". Of course in your case you are disagreeing with an overwhelming majority.

I am not going to look up facts as Mike has, but I will say that very small dogs have real tenacity and will tend to bite toes if given the chance. Working for the state, I was bitten many times on my toes by tiny dogs. But whenever I was caught off guard by a larger dog, in some cases pit bulls, the larger dogs would growl and bark, but seemed less willing to actually bite as I was never bit by larger dogs. This is just my own experience with strange to me dogs.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Jerry,
Pay very close attention. I have NOT attacked any individual on this thread, I have not used any derogatory language in reference to any individual, you included. I stated the reasons why dogs are a bad and dangerous idea. 
And how DO YOU RESPOND? Quote, "...Mike needs to be blocked…" 
Wow… just wow.

*And just look at all of this venom from others. And these are your "buddies" huh?:*

Francisco Luna: "caveman" post #15
PittsburghTim: "Mike. WTF?" post #16
GaryL: "+1 PittsburghTim" Post #17
PittsburghTim: "Mike, if you say one stupid thing, should one assume that everything that you say is stupid?" Post #24
PittsburghTim: "I must admit that you make me feel stupid… for arguing with a dullard like you." Post #29
Dusty56: "If enough of us ignore him , he will eventually go away , or possibly make him seek a new medication to help him be less of a richard." Post #32
Dusty56: "Mayor Mike McCheeseHead" Post #40
PittsburghTim: "Dusty,You the man! Post #42
DaleM: "Go away Mike! You sir, are a troll. " Post #45
Dusty56: "RighteousMike , you can't blame the dogs for the dumb-ass owners negligence. " Post #51
PittsburghTim: "It's scary to think that this man had anything to do with shaping the minds of future generations." Post #62
bigkev: "Mike is a prick of the highest order…" Post #65
ssnvet: "As for the neighbor … perhaps you misheard him and he actually threatened to shoot your kids…. call the police and tell them that and the jerk will spend $20K and the next 2 years proving his innocence…." Post #67
DaleM: "Mike, it appears you just vomited crap all over this thread again." Post #71


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## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

This should send chills up Mike's spine. One can only imagine the horror that is represented by the off camera screams at 1:10 .


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

Jerry, I know a dog owner that has a similar type of collar that Matt described except instead of burying a wire at the perimeter he has a unit inside his home that allows him to set the distance from his home that the dog can go to.
btw, how is Largo doing?


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

I've never seen a herd of St. Bernards before !! 
Thanks for sharing that petrifying video with us : )


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Mike

To say "dogs are dangerous to children" is asinine. Had you said "some dogs are dangerous to children" I could agree with that.

Life is dangerous for all. Do you know the top 20 most dangerous item to kids do not include dogs???

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2012/01/18/top-20-things-most-dangerous-to-children/

http://www.myhealthnewsdaily.com/2084-5-experts-answer-dangerous-items-home.html

Mike lets ban everything of the face of the earth the is dangerous to children.


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## RonInOhio (Jul 23, 2010)

Not crazy about Pit Bulls. And a few other breeds can be high maintenance. I think throwing out numbers regarding dog bites though, really doesn't prove anything without some kind of context.

Common sense usually goes a long way both in raising a dog with some social skills, and people who turn their children loose without supervision. Of course it may be unreasonable to expect parents to shadow their children 24/7.

Dogs are a unique and priceless animal. They sniff out bombs,drugs, track criminals,capture criminals, help hunters find game, keep herds of animals from straying, save lives , pull sleds, and perform many different work related tasks. They protect owners and their property from wild animals, intruders and alert them to vistors. They find people who get lost.

Dogs are the premier service animal, becoming a lifetime servant to their masters. Theyt serve in the armed forces and save lives in the military, law enforcement, and civil services. On top of all those things,dogs provide companionship, undying loyalty, and bring joy to millions upon millions .

To ignor all the good dogs do for people ,and focus on dog bites and the rare fatalities caused by viscious dog attacks, (which is atypical by-the-way) seems to be pushing an agenda.

Most incidents involving dogs that become vicious or unsocialble can likely be traced to the idiot human who
raised and trained the animal.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

*Let's wrap up this discussion, everyone.*


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## bigkev (Mar 16, 2011)

Why should we have to wrap it up? WTF?


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

*"Let's wrap up this discussion, everyone."*

"Everyone?"

Everyone needs to wrap up a perfectly viable, non-confrontational(originally) thread….because of *one* obnoxious, autocratic, bully troll?

Seems a little….backwards….no?


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## Airspeed (Mar 11, 2013)

I'm so sorry about your dog! I hope he recovers and is back to new in no time! I've had dogs all my life but never understood when people would talk about there dogs like kids, that is until I got my last dog, Buddy was awesome and a good friend. He got cancer had I had to put him to sleep, it was really sad! I'm glad your dog wasn't killed and I hope your neighbor comes to his senses! I can imagine it would be difficult to do but maybe you could take Largo over and introduce him to the jerk, show him how gentle he is, let him see Largo with his goats. Maybe take one of your kids with and see how much they love him. Maybe that will soften the jerk up. I've had wars with my neighbor and it sucks! Now I kill them with kindness, it makes life around the neighborhood much more relaxed when you're not at war. If that doesn't work let one of his goats on your property and tell him you had to shoot it cause it was butting your dog! Good luck!


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