# ripped off



## kolwdwrkr (Jul 27, 2008)

About six weeks ago or so (probably more) I was forced to vacate my shop so the new tenant could move his crap in. Which had me upset to begin with because I talked to him and he told me to push everything to one corner and keep them there until they sold. I think he got upset because I wouldn't sell them to him for a lowball price. Anyhow I moved all but three to my garage. My powermatic 66 tablesaw with the excalibur, grizzly jumpsaw (brand new) and portercable compressor. A guy came to me and told me he wanted them and could move them right away if he could make payments. Says he had a truck with a lift gate and some guys to help. So after about 2 weeks of consideration (8 weeks ago he came to me) I got despirate and decided to go with it. He came and took the tools, promised a deposit within 2 weeks and the rest around the begining of april or end of march. I haven't seen a dime and was only asking 3k. Thats what the jump saw cost alone. He made up this little make shift contract and went on his way. 2 weeks later I called him looking for money. He said he was waiting for payment from a job and would pay me by the end of the week. So that went by and still no money. I called him again. Same excuse. He's finishing up a job and will have money at the end of the week. Well that went by. And on and on until right now. Called him yesterday and there was no answer. Not only am I getting pissed about the situation I feel helpless. Like there's nothing I can do. I can't take him to court because I can't afford it. And you still have to collect afterwords which doesn't seem any easier then right now. I thought about posting ads on craigslist and the like saying to not go with that company because they are theives and not honest. But I don't think that is even legal. So what can I do at this point? Do I just suffer the loss? I really am despirate for that money right now. I haven't had work for 12 weeks or longer. I've been looking for a job with no luck. Any thoughts?


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## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

Disclaimer: Use at your own risk

Some years back, a couple of people in our town had a falling out over a business deal. Soon after, a very large bill board appeared on the property of one of the two- this sign was within 100 feet of a very heavily traveled US highway and was displayed for several YEARS.

"Name and Name are alleged liars and thieves and failed to make payments ordered by the courts"

Not suggesting you should do this- just a thought.


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## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

How about small claims court? You would file a claim in the Small Claims Division of the District Court in the county where the guy lives. The 3K should be within your statutory limits and it doesn't cost that much. Here the filing fee is $20. Hopefully you could at least get a judgment to get your tools back. But maybe the threat of going to court will get him on the ball.

This situation is a bummer no doubt.


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## Moai (Feb 9, 2009)

A minor claim in California cost $35, for claims up to $5000, it takes 20 minutes to file online and receive date and time to appear in court.
I have used this twice, the first time was a guy who was refusing to give me the smog check for a truck I bought from him. Second time was a person who sold me a Tonneau cover for my truck, it was incomplete…..

People normaly, once they receive the notice to appear in court, they pay right away.

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/smallclaims/


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## boboswin (May 23, 2007)

I lent a quasi freind $1700.00 last March. He told me he had some hard times and needed to bridge some payments for 2 weeks.
After I showed him my scrap album and mentioned how fragile the human body is he decided to make $200.00 monthly payments to me last November.
I mention this because I have had a long history of talking folks at their word and getting stung because of it.
With this last fiasco, I will be permantly out of the banking business and will never do *any transaction* again without a contract. (within reason)

The latest *non contracted *mistake that came back at me was a cherry burl with 20 hours labor and materials in it.

Bob


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## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

Small claims court is the answer. Get a judgment - ask the court for a writ - have the sheriff visit the guy with the writ in hand - you'll either get your tools or the money. Also, if you get a judgment and the sheriff comes up empty you can put a lien on the real estate the man might own in your county. That's a very small fee ($10-20 in most counties). Once the lien is in place if the guy wants to transfer title/deed to any real property - his name pops up with your lien. Most county courthouses have a website that you can pull up the necessary forms and fee lists. Be sure to ask for your court costs and pre- and post judgment interest.

If it were me, I'd try to get the money as opposed to your tools back. By now the man has used them and you'll not have any idea what type of shape they are in.

Good luck to you.


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## MedicKen (Dec 2, 2008)

If everything else fails I can call a friend of a friend and have it taken care of. Guido is looking for work too!!


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## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

Another thing - don't forget that you can file a complaint with the BBB in your area (I'm assuming he has a business). If you do file in small claims file against the man individually and his business.


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## kleinjahr (Mar 2, 2009)

A letter from an attorney generally works. If not then small claims court. In that case bring everything you have with you pertaining to the case. Pictures of the tools, receipts, serial numbers, phone records, everything. If you watch Judge Judy you'll get the idea pretty quick.


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## Woodchuck1957 (Feb 4, 2008)

Do you have any witnesses ? Serial numbers ? I would take care of it right away incase the guy sells the stuff. I would even look into fileing a theft of property charge.


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## Padre (Nov 5, 2008)

You could get some friends, rent a Uhaul for $20, and go take it back.


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## pitchnsplinters (Dec 26, 2008)

People suck. Find the guy and talk him into resawing a round blank on a bandsaw. That will seriously f him up.


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## oldskoolmodder (Apr 28, 2008)

This is how you learn not to do it again.


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

Do you know where the guy lives…? Where YOUR equipment may be…..? Repossess it. What Padre said. You could always ask a Deputy to go with you.
- JJ


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## Padre (Nov 5, 2008)

Oh, and you can take me with you if you want….with my face right now I'd scare the bejeepers out of them and he'd probably pay you to take it back!


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## depictureboy (Jun 5, 2008)

I would say that padre is technically right, since he has not made attempt at payment you still have ownership of the property. On the other hand..possession is 9/10ths of the law….


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## sIKE (Feb 14, 2008)

IMHO, I he hasn't paid you for your it, therefore he has stolen your property and I would press fellony theft charges against him. I garaonteeeee you will get his attention real quick.


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## JohnGray (Oct 6, 2007)

I worked for an attorney collecting this kind of debt before I retired. *This is my personal opinion NOT legal advice*, but from what I've seen your best bet is Small Claims Court and follow up from there. What Betsy says above is sound advice.

Betsy Quote: "Small claims court is the answer. Get a judgment - ask the court for a writ - have the sheriff visit the guy with the writ in hand - you'll either get your tools or the money. Also, if you get a judgment and the sheriff comes up empty you can put a lien on the real estate the man might own in your county. That's a very small fee ($10-20 in most counties). Once the lien is in place if the guy wants to transfer title/deed to any real property - his name pops up with your lien. Most county courthouses have a website that you can pull up the necessary forms and fee lists. Be sure to ask for your court costs and pre- and post judgment interest."


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## buffalosean (Feb 15, 2009)

try filling a police report out before court, just to start building legal documentation… the more evidence you can give the better.

Also, write down time & dates when you have called the guy to ask for money. the more organized you are in court the more favorable the court is going to view your case.

sorry you lost you job, this guy must be quite the spineless coward to do something like this to someone who is in need.
well i wish you the best of luck


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## dalec (Oct 3, 2007)

Sorry about your loss.

Just remember that O.J. was trying to retrieve property that he alleged was stolen from him. Strong arm tactics may work sometimes, but the risks related to strong arm tactics action may only hurt you.

My advice, follow Betsy's suggestion.

Dalec


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## jm540 (Jan 14, 2009)

*all kidding aside*
give us his name to save the members on the west coast from your fate or in dealing with him we can at least say have you paid insert your name. 
If he hasn't given you anything your not going to get anything. check his shop see when who leeves and who comes show up when there are few of them and more of you and a uhaul don't take a gun unless you or a friend has a consealed carry permit ready to leave alone who came alone. one friend with 911 ready on the cell and get your stuff. or you will never see it again.
he maybe honest? has he been? he is ripping you off!!!!!!
if you go there and he does not give your stuff or money beat the p-s out of him and take it if he calls the police you at least have your property held as evidence .

if you are above the tactics go there with the same group of friends and reciepts and ask him for money or the tools. if he does not give either call the police and tell them he has taken the items and under an agreement and will not return them the police will tell you to leave make note of it tell you it is a civil matter and has to be handled in that $35 DOLLAR COURT AFORE MENTIONED . politely ask the officer to make note of the serial numbers on the machinery. and now you have evidence he had your equpment


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## mmh (Mar 17, 2008)

First of all I commend you on your trust of human kind, be it a downfall for being taken advantage of, but it is an honorable trait. If nothing else, you're a better person for it than the theives who have taken advantage of you. You can't fix a wrong that others have done, but you can at least know that you are not a bad person.

Check your local Small Business Office to see if they can help you find free or cheap legal advice. Sometimes you can also call up a law firm to ask a few questions of how you can try to approach this problem without paying large fees. Ask them how you can get involved in their Pro-bono (free) services. Large firms will have a percentage of legal services aloted for pro-bono work, but it may take weeks for a board to approve your case, but it couldn't hurt to call someone up for a small claims case inquiry. Any free info you get will be better than none.

You could try to contact him via written letter (notarized and certified delivery) informing him that according to the agreement he has not paid for the equipment and you want immediate payment or return of goods in same condition as received. Inform him that if he does not respond within 48 hours with payment you will pick up the goods. Upon his failure to do this, inform him that you will then file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau (online application take 5 minutes) and take further legal actions. Accept CASH or a Cashier's check. If he gives you a check it may bounce, BUT, you will then have written evidence of his failure to complete the transaction. It won't be worth anything at the time, but it is hard evidence. If he doesn't have the cash, he could use his credit card to send you a Paypal payment to your e-mail. Be firm and professional, don't get angry or ugly, as this will only make things worst. Tell him you want to work with him but you MUST have the money or the goods returned.

Some news stations (like "7 On Your Side") have reporters who will act as a liason between an individual and a business who has not performed the services paid for. Look into what local news stations have and speak with someone who can clue you in on your situation. Your written contract is a key document here. Make sure that is dated, signed and specific.

I hope this helps. Good luck!


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## 93mwm (Jan 13, 2009)

so basicly the long and short of it so far is; do things professionaly and through the proper channels and if that doesn't work f-k him up and take your sh1t back


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## Cantputjamontoast (Jan 1, 2009)

Start writing him certified letters.
Include that you would really like this resolved. Judges like to hear that you tried to work it out. Explain that you sold it because you needed the money in the first place.

File the small claims court stuff and write your script for the court date and practice what you will say.

Your contract better be half way decent because that is going to be a big factor in the discussion at small claims.

When you win your judgement which I am sure you will, ask the judge for immediate payment as time has gone on long enough. If we does not pay you then remember that in my location I got 9% interest for as long as it took my "opponent" to pay. I know this does not help your immediate needs but small claims is designed to help us to keep from killing each other(which is what this guy needs).

The system can work for you.

Good luck.

Also explain to him that judgements in small claims court go on his credit rating.

I'm sure you could then advertise the judgement as that could not be construred as slander, you are merely advertising what is a matter of public record.

You could advertise"I got a judgement against Jed Clampett for non payment.


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

Vigilante justice.


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## snowdog (Jul 1, 2007)

Trust no one. Hope for the best but expect the worst. Sorry to hear you found another scum bucket in the human race.

Get some friends and go take back your tools, may be dangerous, but seems to be the only way some people figure out that you cannot just take and do what you want.

But sometimes it is better to just walk away, you are the only one that can be the judge of how you should react.

Good luck.


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## Five40 (Feb 7, 2009)

If he is a licensed contractor, try filing a claim against him with the contractor's board. That will get his attention. It may not do anything but it will let him know you are going to be a pain in his a$$ until you get your money.

If you have kids, bring them to his shop and tell him that you are going to stay there until he pays you. I know someone who did this and was successful. But it was an office building and they waited in the lobby. Pretty funny. Maybe you could show up on his job sites and start talking to his customers?


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## WIwoodworker (Apr 10, 2008)

What you have is a contractual dispute. As far as I can tell assaulting someone to settle it is not an option anywhere I'm familiar with. Being tough sounds satisfying but I highly doubt the folks here who are recommending it have actually done it or they'd be telling you it's not a good idea. You go to jail even if you're right and then you have an assault charge on your record. It looks good in the movies though doesn't it?

File in small claims court but realize that even if you get a judgment it doesn't mean you'll collect money any time soon. If it were me I'd show up at his shop and ask him for the equipment back (at this point you should already know you're not getting any money). If that doesn't work there's no need for threats just go file the claim.

Everything else is just a scare tactic and if he's the kind of guy you say he is then he already knows that. Don't waste more time. Just do what needs to be done. It's just business.

Good luck.


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## Woodhacker (Mar 16, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear about this. Good luck with getting it resolved.


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## Moai (Feb 9, 2009)

So….what are you gonna do?
We are in suspense here! lol
Trust me, file a small Claim, I am in CA too (San Francisco) and it's very easy….
I lost everything one year ago, I was forced to sale everything, my Powermatic 66, my Dust collector, Hard Maple Workbench and many nice tools…......The best for you in this hard times!


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## LocalMac (Jan 28, 2009)

Sounds like you're going to need a ski mask, flash bang grenades, a getaway truck, and a victory cigar! But truthfully I think going to his business or home would be best to start. If you can get an officer to go with you he might realize that he's in trouble and decide to pay you or give your tools back. Also I would be all for getting the word out against his business (if he is the owner). I would think that you have every right to voice your opinion and warn possible customers.


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## Cantputjamontoast (Jan 1, 2009)

So how did it turn out.


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## Moai (Feb 9, 2009)

yeah, we are in suspense…


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## kolwdwrkr (Jul 27, 2008)

Supposed to get $500 this week from him and then back to progress payments. Yeah, right. I'll have to hound him for those too. I have doubts I'll get the $500 this week. I don't know what to do here. If I take him to court it takes time and money, and even if I win it may be difficult to collect. It's tough being broke already. That money would definitely be nice. I don't think anyone really knows how broke I am. I haven't worked for 8 months and am basically living off of the tools I sell. I just sold my drum sander and bought a cheap rigid tablesaw so I can at least offer something while I look for a job. People will be fist fighting for jobs pretty soon it seems. I don't think I'm that interested in being an employee to take one on the nose. So maybe I can get a few odd ball jobs or handyman work for some extra money. I don't know what to do anymore. This guy is the scum of the earth if he goes through with ripping me off. He is maintaining contact so I feel like he may just be hurting for work too. I appreciate all the suggestions. Lets all assume I will have to go to small claims court over this. Until then I am keeping track of all the times I have contact with him so I can have some sort of case. Thanks guys.


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## Woodchuck1957 (Feb 4, 2008)

I think your being to nice, I would of called the police by now. And yes I can imagine how broke you are, I haven't had work in some time either. I certainly wouldn't be in the mood to put up with that jackass weather I was working or not. Take the gloves off and getr done. But whatever, it's your stuff.


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## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

Just a thought, but have you checked with your local churches. They generally have things that need to be done that could fill in some space. The guy that has been doing that at our church, gets a lot of requests from members to do other things. He makes pretty good change on it. Just a thought.


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## Cantputjamontoast (Jan 1, 2009)

Kol,

Any update, please tell me you are getting paid.


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## Padre (Nov 5, 2008)

What Woodchuck said. Go to the police. IMHO this is no different than identity theft, contractor scams, etc.


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## kolwdwrkr (Jul 27, 2008)

I still have not gotten any money. Every time I talk with him he promises a few days, then it becomes a week. I'm no longer giving him the benefit of a doubt. I am documenting when we have a conversation, trying to make a game plan, etc. That way I can move forward in confidence. I may end up with the tools back, I may not. But I can guarentee you that he will take a much larger hit then if he had just paid me to begin with.


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## Cantputjamontoast (Jan 1, 2009)

get em 
tiger!!!!!!!


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## HokieMojo (Mar 11, 2008)

i agree with the comments above. the longer you wait, the less understanding a judge will be with your case. I'd go to the police first to see what they can do and then follow up with small claims court as soon as possible. Good luck. I know things have been rough, and I don't think this needs to be added to your list of things to contend with.


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## sikrap (Mar 15, 2009)

Go to the police. I was in a similar situation a couple of years ago. I threatened small claims court and the guy just laughed. I had a friend check into things and found out that the guy had over $100,000 in judgements against him already (including one from the funeral parlor that handled his sister's burial!!!) and that mine would just get in line. I went to the police and found out that, under the law in NY, the guy had stolen my stuff and they arrested him. Strangely, his lawyer called me the very next day and provided me with a check for the entire amount. I can't say whether the law where you live is the same, but chances are that this guy is screwing everybody and the police are all too familiar with him. Good Luck!!


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## pitchnsplinters (Dec 26, 2008)

Ocelot. Leave one in his truck, they are wicked nasty.


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## Padre (Nov 5, 2008)

Any new developments?


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## JerrySats (Jul 7, 2008)

Enough is enough , go to your local police or state police and file a stolen equipment claim . Let them know exactly who stole it and where it can be found if you know . Stop being the nice guy you are , because this creep deserves to be locked up . I hope everything works out for you . Keep us posted .


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I'd go to the police and pray they don't tell you it is a civil matter:-((


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## Woodchuck1957 (Feb 4, 2008)

I'd give the guy a little more time so he has the chance to sell it all, and then leave town without a trace. *WAKE UP !*


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## saddlesore (Oct 17, 2007)

Darn if you are not an encouraging, gentle soul, Upchuck! Still hoping you recover your tools, kolwdwkr!


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## DannyBoy (Oct 26, 2007)

This sounds like you are having to pay the stupid tax. Never take payments on a sell. That is what banks are for. If he isn't financially trustworthy enough to have gotten a loan and paid you cash, then he isn't trust worthy for you to "loan" him the money (which is essentially what you did). No offense, but this was a stupid move.

I know you are down trying to find work, but I have to say that the small claims is your only hope here. If you go after they guy in anyway else, you may be asking for trouble. Paying $20 to $50 to start a claim may keep you from getting a total loss on this.

If you can't get that amount of money, then you need to pick yourself up and take the first job you can get (even if that is flipping burgers) and then take this guy to court. (No one is saying burger flipping is a carreer or that it will make things easy-peasy, but you have a huge income problem and you need to step on the first rung of the ladder not wait for the top rung to get lower.)

~DB


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