# Try square vs. machinist's square



## exold (Aug 22, 2008)

vs. 

*I'm curious* as to what the reasons are for using wooden try squares rather than machinist's steel squares. The main reason I'm asking is because it's a fair bit cheaper to get a guaranteed-square metal square than the wooden/part-wood type.
Undoubtedly one reason is tradition (itself likely driven by expedience in days of yore). Are there other reasons?


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## jcash3 (Dec 15, 2007)

i use machinist squares. rockler sells the ones that are have measurements on them. the ones at woodcraft don't.
i've never tried a try square.


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## ChicoWoodnut (Dec 15, 2007)

Hi david,

That Incra Square does not have wood in its construction. It is a solid anodized aluminum billet. Is it worth over twice the price of the steel machinist square? Only if you like the difference in fit and finish. In use, I think they are functionally the same. That Incra is pretty and it won't rust or stain from being handled.

As for the wooden ones with the steel blades. You are correct, it is a tradition thing. I have one I bought long ago. I never use it (it's not square) but it sure looks pretty up there on the rack by the rosewood marking gauge.


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## tooldad (Mar 24, 2008)

We use the stanley try squares in class. All metal construction, and they have measurements on them. I have not ever used a machinists square. Have had success with the squareness of both the metal and wood handled try squares. Other than that I don't know much difference, it probably is just preference. One other note, all of our textbooks refer to a try square, but only the books with metal working sections refer to the the machinist square. Probably the tradition thing.


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## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

I have always used machinist's squares. 30 years ago I used to be a machinist and I still have all the tools.
Never needed anything else.

I don't see any downside and the are inexpensive. You can buy a set of 4 at grizzly for $17.

http://grizzly.com/products/4-pc-Machinist-s-Square-Set/H2993


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## rob2 (Nov 27, 2007)

If the size is convenient and you check them for square, what difference could it make?


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

> I have always used machinist's squares. 30 years ago I used to be a machinist and I still have all the tools.
> Never needed anything else.
> 
> I don t see any downside and the are inexpensive. You can buy a set of 4 at grizzly for $17.
> ...


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## LittleShaver (Sep 14, 2016)

I have both and use both. But I've also checked them both for square.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> *I m curious* as to what the reasons are for using wooden try squares rather than machinist s steel squares.
> - David A. P.


Technically they are the same thing, a machinist square is a calibrated metal try square. The industrial age and especially the assembly line meant that parts had to be made to high tolerances so they could be interchangeable. Prior to that, parts were made for a specific machine and wouldn't fit another without modification. I'm speculating but it makes sense that try squares were originally made of wood because they were made by woodworkers, probably from off cuts and scraps. Metal blades allowed them be used with marking knives without damaging the square. I've read that in pre-industrial woodshops, every piece of wood was accounted for and if a workman wanted to use scrap for personal reasons, even to make a tool, he had to pay for it. People use wood squares today because they look nice and it's traditional.


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

> I have both and use both. But I ve also checked them both for square.
> 
> - Dan Hulbert


you have the grizzly and what other brand? btw, is grizzly made in US like PEC?


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Grizzly sources from the PRC.


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

> Grizzly sources from the PRC.
> 
> - Rick M


thank you


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I'd just say with that stuff you can pick it
up at flee markets over time. About half
my collection of squares was bought on the
cheap that way.

I can't praise enough the 4" double square for
laying out joints and marking drilling holes.
I also use it for checking machines, depth
of mortises, etc. It fits in an apron or shirt
pocket easily while a 6" square kind of doesn't.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

This is a really old thread. Oops.


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

> I d just say with that stuff you can pick it
> up at flee markets over time. About half
> my collection of squares was bought on the
> cheap that way.
> ...


that's good to know…thanks. m a newbie to all this.

btw, has anyone used iGaging squares?


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## realcowtown_eric (Feb 4, 2013)

My thoughts on wood vs machinists squares was that it was weight that decided. If any of you neanderbuddies have tried to pick up traditional tool chest loded with tools, you'll realize that the extra weight of a few more pounds of iron on a few machinists tools add up real quick. Freak, even lifting a much smaller machinists chest can be quite an exercise.

So weight reduction and also costfactor into the equation, particularly way back when folks actually moved their tool chests to job sites. .

I got many different types of squares, including a machinists square with a 36" tongue that takes two men and a boy to take out of its case. OTOH, I have drating t-squares which weigh a fraction of that, and once "proved" are just as accurate, just don't tand y]up to the wear and tear

Not to mention that I have had a few of the imported machinists squares which did NOT prove out to be square.That's a path you don't want to be on.

Eric


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> This is a really old thread. Oops.
> 
> - Loren


But now it's new 

I've certainly evolved over the years regarding what I like. As I mentioned in another similar thread, I love my 6 and 4 inch double squares. I make lots of small boxes that need bottoms that fit snugly. The double square does the best job for me of fitting the tool to the bottom opening and transferring that to the stop on my sled.

I have a couple of less expensive try squares. They are dead on, and work great for marking, but for other things the blades are too thin and the design is kind of clunky (Bora, if you're curious). I got a Woodpeckers 6 inch on sale, and I love it. The 1/4 inch thick blade on the wide base is so stable and I love how I can check things that I wasn't sure about before with thinner blades.

My take on it is that there's no right or wrong. If the square is accurate, it all comes down to you, and how you work.


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## realcowtown_eric (Feb 4, 2013)

Ya right….but the caveat is "if it's accurate" and too many people assume just because it is a "square" it is accurage. It ain't so till it's proved so and that, like 
RichT said…"is all up to you"

Just like levels…ain't nothin so derpessing for a trim carpenter to walk into a house where the doors were hung with an inaccurate level

Fundamental devices have to be precise to be sure!


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Just like levels…ain t nothin so derpessing for a trim carpenter to walk into a house where the doors were hung with an inaccurate level
> 
> - realcowtown_eric


I've bought a few of those houses. I also bought a boatload of door stops. Yeah, workmanship in this era is often lacking. The house I lived in built in 1929 was far more true in every respect than anything I've occupied since.

Should we blame it on the level, or the carpenter?


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

It's not the era, that's romanticising the past. I know people who live in houses built pre-WWI and pre-WWII, and they have all sorts of issues. One of them has random lumber, even fence posts and trees as wall studs and often at random spacings. My house was built in the 50's and there are parts that look like they were build by a drunk carpenter. People don't change. 100 years ago there were slackers and drunks, and today there are slackers and drunks.

Pic of 1959 house, the walls on either side of the closet are not parallel and the closet is a trapezoid.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> ...and the closet is a trapezoid.
> - Rick M


That was the style back then.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

I bought a cheap (India) set of machinist squares a while ago (4", 6" and 8"). Exceptionally handy and accurate enough. The 6" gets the most use and after a number of drops and dings, I decided to replace it. Went with the PEC factory "seconds" begin sold on eBay. 100% satisfied.


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## WillliamMSP (Jan 3, 2014)

> ...and the closet is a trapezoid.
> - Rick M
> 
> That was the style back then.
> ...


Better for the acoustics to have non-parallel walls…


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## WillliamMSP (Jan 3, 2014)

> you have the grizzly and what other brand? btw, is grizzly made in US like PEC?
> 
> - nmssis


If you're looking at PEC and you're on a budget, look at either Harry Epstein or Taylor Toolworks - both sell PEC seconds. I think that TTW usually has free shipping (at least via ebay), but if you're going to buy more than one piece at a time HE is often a little cheaper with the bundled shipping charge.

As an FYI on PEC, and unlike Starrett, the blades on the 6" and 4" combo- and double-square heads are interchangeable. For instance, I wanted a 6" combo and a 4" double, but found deals on a 6" double and 4" combo. Bada bing, bada boom - bought both and just swapped the blades around.


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

> you have the grizzly and what other brand? btw, is grizzly made in US like PEC?
> 
> - nmssis
> 
> ...


excellent, thank you!


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

> It s not the era, that s romanticising the past. I know people who live in houses built pre-WWI and pre-WWII, and they have all sorts of issues. One of them has random lumber, even fence posts and trees as wall studs and often at random spacings. My house was built in the 50 s and there are parts that look like they were build by a drunk carpenter. People don t change. 100 years ago there were slackers and drunks, and today there are slackers and drunks.
> 
> - Rick M


Anyone can make a house out of perfect lumber but to mix and match takes takes more ingenuity-like "intentionally" using a trapezoidal closet to make the room square to compensate.


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

> you have the grizzly and what other brand? btw, is grizzly made in US like PEC?
> 
> - nmssis
> 
> ...


just bought a 4" double square and 2" machinist square for $38 on ebay from TaylorToolworks…they also had 6" PEC blades for under $6…wow

thanks for the tip


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> Anyone can make a house out of perfect lumber …
> - Lazyman


 I think a lot of people would disagree and that was basically the point.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

> Anyone can make a house out of perfect lumber …
> - Lazyman
> 
> I think a lot of people would disagree and that was basically the point.
> ...


LOL. Tongue in check.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

My take on this is; the starting point on any project is the layout. For the project to be successful in both execution and final result, measurements need to be precise. Rough carpentry doesn't require "machinist's" precision, but building a fine piece of furniture does. Fine furniture that is produced in a factory uses machinery that operates at a precision level. It is not hand made, but machine made. If you want to duplicate a factory made piece of furniture, you need to work with precision. Even cheap furniture follows some degree of precision as parts all have to be the same for a production schedule.
So I say; if you want to be successful in your woodworking, buy and learn to use the best precision measurement tools available. Measuring tools are not the place to skimp on money. Spending $3000 on a cabinet saw and $10 on a square doesn't make sense. I have heard good things about PEC tools and I do have a PEC rule, but how do you know how accurate it is? I use my machinist quality tools to check my other tools. You don't have to always buy the most expensive measuring tools. I have found great bargains at pawn shops and even garage sales and flea markets.


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