# Band saw NEWBIE needs assistance re: achieving a smooth cut with a band saw.



## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

My first forum post! Need some assistance. Just put a riser on my 1 hp 14 inch grizzly and put the blade they included on the saw. Read that tension should be light on the blade. Did some practice cuts attempting to get the smoothest cut.

Cutting 3/4 fir plywood and making a thein baffle. Increased and decreased the tension but I continue to get a ribbed edge on my cut?

It's a 1/2 inch w @ 7 tpi. (close approximation.)

Reading advice and getting the general idea of feed and tension. I did use a straight edge to make sure the upper and lower wheels were in line, and the blade is in the center of the wheel

Not sure about the roller guides on the machine. Have them in close proximity.

Planning on doing some re sawing. Maybe some veneer work, but not with such rough a surface?

Lots of experience with circular and saber saws. This is different, and although easy to do cutting I am looking for a smooth cut.

Thanks


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Doc, If your cut is straight but rough, this is characteristic of bandsaw cuts. More TPI will smooth cuts but will cut slower.

If your cuts aren't straight, that is another matter.

Maybe some pics of your cuts would help determine if your cuts are outside of "normal" bandsaw parameters.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

See what I can do. Just that I've observed people re sawing and making veneers?

I did cut the top and the insert out and they are square to the surface.


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

doc i dont own a bandsaw as of yet, but from what i have seen on the site is that the blades that come with the saw are not very good, you need to buy a few quality blades, and im sure if you do a search on the site, you will find blogs or forums where folks recommend the blades they like..dont know if any of this helps, but its all i know….grizz


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Grizz,

I have a ripping blade but I wanted to get some practice time in and it is a new blade from grizzly. I have done some checking in the LJ's back files. where I read that Micheal Fortune had suggested tensioning down the blade. I will post some pictures of the cuts I made for review tomorrow as I have cat feeding chores tonight.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Doc, Most of the people cutting veneer are using carbide tipped blades with little or no 'set' to the teeth. These are about $200+ blades and even then some blade marks will need to be sanded out.


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

I use my 14 inch Grizzzly to cut stuff with a 1/8 inch blade - 14tpi. The cuts are pretty smooth. I have been cutting out letters and numbers, thus the 1/8 inch blade…Olsen mfg from Highland Woodworking.

Still got to sand if you want a smooth finish.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

*$200 dollars!!!!!!* LOL!


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

*MT_Stringer* Will be more precise in measuring TPI and I will try to get some clear close photos. Gotta go do the cat chores.


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## jte9999 (Aug 23, 2012)

For resawing I've been using the wood slicer blade from Highland, 1/2" 3-4 tpi configuration on a 14" delta w/riser block, and it works great. In my opinion it lives up to it's advertised claims and nearly eliminated the ripple effect you described. I also like to position the blade so that the midpoint between the tooth tip and bottom of gullet is centered on the tire. Since the tire is very slightly convex, I feel this better supports the part of the blade which does the cutting. Hope this helps.
-jay KCMO


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## BrianWells (Feb 7, 2013)

Hey Doc, I agree with jte and gfadvm with aligning blade on wheels, and with less set, will produce smoother finished cut. If you have checked, wheels are coplanar, If carter wheels(bearing) guides set, I always set distance by folding dollar bill in half pressed to blade as gauge , tension on blade 1/4" or less deflection, feed rate should be slow on a 1hp machine, pushing the blade deflects it and will cause it to create side drift trying to catch up with the feed pressure. Setting for "blade drift" is the most crucial when re-sawing veneers. Good luck too ya


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

The first thing you should have done was to toss the blade that came with the riser kit. Get a Timber Wolf or Starrett "Woodpecker". You will never get a smooth cut as with a table saw, but a new blade will help a lot.


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

Since you installed a riser block, make sure you haven't accidentally twisted the upper half of the saw out of alignment with the lower wheel. If they are twisted the blade will have to do a funny twisting motion as it travels around.

Drop the 7tpi blade and stick with 3tpi. The additional sawdust extraction ability of the 3tpi blade will lead to smoother cuts - especially when you resaw. Overheated, fine tpi blades can do funny stuff. I doubt that the Grizzly blade is a very good one either. It needs a good weld joint otherwise you'll have a blade that bounces and rattles around as it travels through the cut. A good weld joint can be verified with a straight edge. Everything should be perfectly flat and aligned on both sides of the weld.

You didn't mention if you were doing your test cuts freehand or with a fence. If freehand, your problem could be user error. When doing freehand cuts, feed the wood at a slight angle and use the back edge of the blade as a guide against one side of the kerf. It's works on the same principle as a pivot pin on a router table. Just don't apply much pressure or you'll risk flexing the blade.

The rear bearing should be close to the back of the blade but not actually touching until you start cutting. The side blade supports need to be as close as possible without touching. A .001" would be about perfect. You'll have to have a blade with a perfect weld for that to work though. Get a good blade.

If your side bearings are roller guides, you may be out of luck. Trying to get those things perfectly aligned and tight up against the blade is such a hassle it's better to stick with the blocks. I'm sure with enough fussing you can get them set up somewhat but it'll likely never be perfect.

Keeping the blade on the center of the upper wheel eliminates drift. You're doing that part right.

If the saw has vibration in it that will cause problems too. Find the cause and eliminate it so the tool hums like a sewing machine.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

You're stretching the capacity of the saw and
expecting a lot.

Fortune's original stuff on resawing and bandsaw 
setup wasn't done with a riser block and with
a non split-frame saw. Thickness was under 6".

Wide blades work better for straight cuts. 
Blades over 1" wide are better, imo, because 
they don't lead as readily as they get a little
less sharp.

Keep resaw heights minimized and you'll find
it's easier to get nice parts out of the saw. Wide
boards tend to cup anyway when resawn.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

*jte9999, Brian ,MrRon, JAAuune, and Loren*

Thanks for the feedback! Did notice some blade deflection, and I would hear a thump, thump sound. Rechecked last night and found 8 teeth from inch mark to inch mark.

I'm thinking I'll make some cuts in some 2×8 material to show what GFADVM was asking for.

I have a well rated 3 tpi 1/2inch blade . Olson 105'' Band Saw Blades 1/2'' x 3 hook


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## Woodbridge (Oct 12, 2011)

I concur with the others that suggest using a blade with 3 TPI. I have a similar (import/made in China) bandsaw (the Busy Bee tools version) with a riser block. There are always some blade marks when cutting. That give me a reason to use my hand plane. For resawing I use a 1/2 blade with 3 TPI. Each time you change the blade make sure to take some time to set-up the saw. I took a set-up your bandsaw seminar at Lee Valley and the instructor basically follows the same process described in Michael Fortunes FWW article. Having everything set-up properly really made a difference. There are also some other useful FWW archives articles: issues 189 and 159


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Just so you have realistic expectations, I've never seen a bandsaw cut come remotely close to a smooth TS cut…some sanding, planing, jointing, etc., is usually required, but more teeth, better blade, and careful setup are all steps in the right direction.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

*Peter, knotscott,*

Thanks! My planes need work too. LOL!


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

Hey Doc. Congrats on the riser. When you learn a few of the ins and outs of the BS you will wonder how you lived life as a WW with out one. The 1/2" blade is a little much for cutting circles, and unless you are using a QUALITY blade you will experience disappointment and hate your bandsaw. I like the Woodslicers, but there are quite a few blades out there that are good. To cut your baffle in 1/2" ply I would use a 1/4" blade, your blade is getting caught in the kerf and binding and that will give you the rough cut.
I implore you to watch and follow the advice given in the following video. It has turned my bandsaw into a cherished piece of equipment in my shop. I can not think of a project completed that I did not use it.






Take special note of placement of the blade on the top wheel. It makes ALL the difference in the world, and if you think about it, it also makes perfect sense.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

*jumbojack*

Excellent video! Added a picture to what others in this thread have said. Will be looking into it. used 3/4 plywood and half inch blade. Sanded the edge.

will put my blade tooth gullet in center of wheel, and readjust my saw.


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## Momcanfixit (Sep 19, 2012)

Jumbo - great video, I'm favouriting this thread so I can keep track of the video.

Doc, I've only had my bandsaw a few months. I was getting a very rippled cut also. I upped the tension on my blade and it sorted that problem out for me even with the stock blade. 
Resawing was another story….


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

*Sandra,* Maybe we will both get some solutions?


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

Without a quality blade resawing is a dicey proposition. Like I said I like the woodslicer, and I am not blowing smoke or trying to break the bank but the difference is NIGHT AND DAY. I can not stress enough the importance of a good blade for resawing. I am able to get pretty good cuts from smaller blades when doing curved work, that arent the quality blades but for resawing…..just get a Woodslicer, Timberwolf or similar blade. Money well spent.


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## jte9999 (Aug 23, 2012)

I'll say again, I agree with jumbojack on the wood slicer blade (1/2"). I have tried a few others for resawing but happy with it for two reasons. I like the thin kerf (1/32"), about 30% narrower than others, and the alternating tooth 3-4 configuration seems to make sense to quell any resonant frequency vibration. Like breaking stride when crossing a bridge. I know Highland recommends using cool block guides. My saw had them when I bought it so I can't speak to whether they help. Something you might look into. These are just my opinions, hope they help.

-jay KCMO


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

As you are making straight cuts for veneer, try this.

Bandsaw blades are made to make relatively tight turns (this is what bandsaws are usually made for) so the teeth in the blade are offset side to side a good bit to make a wide kerf to accommodate curves in cutting. You need to remove some of this offset by placing a *sharpening stone against each side of the running blade*. This will also even up the tooth offset. You will get a smoother cut, however the ability to make tight turns will be reduced. Be sure to somehow mark this blade so it will only be used for veneer making.

Planeman


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## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

yall talking french to me. Sorry.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

*Dave,*

You need a cup of coffee and get out of the sun….LOL!

*Planeman40, Jumbojack,*

Thanks! I will have to take time to do all the suggestions to find my answer. Also need to practice my cutting? The video is an excellent reference. As good or better that stuff I have paid for! LOL!

Finally I need to save up for a "better quality" blade.

I'm not even close in my practicing to attempt the veneers, I was wondering how people can get smooth cuts, because what I have produced so far is sandable, but not good enough for veneers.


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## Surfside (Jun 13, 2012)

I'm using hard back carbon blades now.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

The following may also help you with your new bandsaw.

When changing blades and re-setting your guides, first pull all of your guides away from the blade. Then adjust the blade where it runs on the center of the wheel or close to it. Turn on your bandsaw - being careful to be quick with the off switch should the blade want to run off the wheel - and let the blade settle into a place on the wheel where it wants to run consistently, tweaking the blade adjustment a touch to get it to run consistently in one place. Let the blade run for three or four minutes to make sure the blade adjustment doesn't shift, then shut the saw off. *NOW* bring your blade guides up to the blade leaving about ten thousandths of an inch (the thickness of a piece of writing paper) between the blade and the guides. You leave this space as a piece of metal constantly pressing on the blade will "work harden" the blade over time and make it prone to breakage. Your bandsaw blade should run consistently in one place with no trouble after this.

Also, a "rule of thumb" is to *ALWAYS* have a minimum of three teeth in the work. This is to avoid stripping teeth from the blade (think about it). This is particularly critical with sawing metal!

Planeman


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## Straightbowed (Feb 9, 2012)

yep you need to go with a 2 3 tpi blade


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

*Surfside,Planeman40,Straightbowed,*

Thanks for your input.

Doing some finishing on my parts for my Thein separator. Took a few moments to do some of the recommended things like check the blade tension, check my rate of feed. Made sure the blade was centered.

Getting an thump, thump as the blade slows down when stopping.. Increasing tension appears to reduce this.

Any thoughts on this happening?


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## UpstateNYdude (Dec 20, 2012)

You want to see some ripples use a 1tpi blade and saw up some green logs, looks like shark teeth after the cut but it goes through the log like its warm butter.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

The thumping is most likely the weld in the blade or maybe a slight kink somewhere in the blade. Poorly welded blades sometimes do not have the weld ground completely flat or the weld is out of alignment and it makes the thump each time it passes through the guides. Often you can help this by filing the weld down until it is flat. A slight kink on the other hand is usually difficult to remove. Just live with it until you buy another (better) blade.

A recommendation: Always inspect the weld to see if it appears to be a well made weld and that the weld has been filed or ground flat when you buy it and the saw teeth are spaced properly. Top grade blades are usually well made (and you pay for it). Lesser blades occasionally have poor welds. You can usually tell by looking at it. One thing you cannot see is if the weld has been properly re-tempered. The weld heats up the blade and takes all of the temper out of it. The weld has to be properly re-tempered to restore the temper the rest of the blade has. An improperly re-tempered weld will either break from being too brittle or easily bend for being too soft. Bandsaw blade welding is sometimes left to the new man who hasn't been properly trained. I know. I was that new man way back in 1965 and my first blades were returned by irate customers. Live and learn.

Planeman


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

*Planseman40* 
Thanks,

Will check it out tomorrow.

*UpstateNYdude.* Probably not on my immediate to do list. LOL!


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

Also make sure that there are no chunks of debris on the wheels. Very few bandsaws have wheel brushes and if they are run without good dust collection they will accumulate plenty of chips on the rubber tires. Those chips will interfere with the smooth travel of the blade.

Adding some brushes and dust collection would be the next steps to take once your saw is tuned if you haven't done so yet.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

*JAAune*

Thanks I remember Mark Daginski in his band saw video talking about mounting brushes to keep the wheels clean. I am finishing my chip collector for the heavy particles in dust collection.


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## syedsirajuddin (Jun 5, 2014)

Very informational video. In loved the way he mounted brushes to make the wheels look clean. Ensure that there is no debris left on the wheels.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

A band saw will never give as clean a cut as a circular saw will. There is too much flex in a band saw blade. A thump-thump sound is not good. That indicates a poorly ground weld that will throw your blade guides out of alignment. I use Starrett blades on my saw and they work perfectly. The weld is invisible; no thump-thump. Check the weld on any blade you plan to buy. I didn't notice if anyone mentioned it, but you should always release the tension on the blade after shutting down for the night. Keeping it tensioned will impress flat areas on the wheels, resulting in poor tracking.


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## RogerM (Oct 31, 2011)

As noted above, the first thing you do is trash the blade that came with the saw and install a Woodslicer or a high TPI Woodpecker or Timberwolf blade. This alone will solve a lot of your issue. Bear in mind that bandsaw cuts are inherently rougher than a circular saw cut.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Hey Guys,

Thanks for your tips!


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

You're welcome. I assume your bandsaw is working better now?


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Did a lot of adjusting, a lot of "Oh Dah!", used my file on back of blade, and focused on tension of the blade. cuts better! Bought some Olsen blades due to budget issues. Seem to be well made.

So..yep! But I haven't been using it for awhilr. Rehabbing second story window in my 140 year old house as it's all different dimensions and requires custom stuff, So I am working on it when rain allows. LOL!


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