# Round or Square Dog holes?



## jordanp (Feb 1, 2013)

I'm designing my first workbench and trying to lay everything out before i get started.
Anyways i've seen people use square dogs/dog holes and round ones are there any pro's and cons between the two?

Round seems like it would be a lot easier to make but if i'm missing out on something by going with the Round ones I would like to know.

Also if anyone has any suggestions on Vice hardware on the Cheap feel free to share..


----------



## paratrooper34 (Apr 27, 2010)

Popular Working did an article on round and square dog holes the past issue. Really, it is a matter of choice. They both have pros and cons. What should drive your decision is what appliances you plan to use with your bench and if they are more conducive to round or square.

Vises are again a matter of choice, what do you like and what best suits your particular methods? I have a nice, used Wilton I will part with for cheap money. It is an extra that I don't need. If you like that kind, it will serve you well.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

As Para says, it really is a matter of choice. But for my .02:

- Round is easier to build. Square almost has to be part of the build to get it right, then once built isn't conducive to adding more if needed / desired.
- Round is easier to retrofit. Drill hole, done.
- There's more flexibility holding work with round holes. Try clamping a round table, for example,with square dogs. It can be done easily w/ three holes and round dogs.
- More appliance choice with round holes. Holdfasts are available (blacksmith made, and veritas hold downs, and jorgensen holdfasts, etc. etc.) for round holes.

So my vote is round. Others will disagree, but it's the most bang for the buck IMHO. Good luck!


----------



## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

I went with round holes for many of the same reasons Smitty outlined. Even though I could have, and was originally planning on using square, I decided to go with round. I also like that I can easily make my own dogs using some 3/4" dowel.


----------



## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

I've noticed square dogs can be made with lips that allow you to push the dog down into the hole and it hold it from falling through. Then, when you need the dog, you pop it up from the bottom. Is there a common method used with round dogs to hold/store them below top surface when not in use? My first thought is a stepped dog hole with a lip full around the dog.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

I use a pair of veritas brass dogs that have an integrated wire 'spine' that makes them a friction fit. Easy up and down. Then I have three steel dogs that are nothing more than round steel with a rectangular 'top' on them. Low profile, but come out when not in use. A veritas bench pup completes my dog inventory.


----------



## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Round.


----------



## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

I just use 3/4" dowel for 3/4" holes, and sand the dowel until it fits snugly, but I can still move it. I've only got 2 currently, but I've got dowel rods to make enough so I won't have to find the dog and move it to where I need it to be.

I've also been flipping the dog over when not in use, to help keep stuff from accumulating in the part where the face of the dog has been created.


----------



## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Since this has all gone to the dogs, I really like my Veritas Surface Clamps (round holes) and use them a lot, along with their brass dogs. These things are not cheap and I only have a pair, but find them really useful.


----------



## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Round. I use the dogs from a B & D "Work Mate" bench. Been usin' them for many years 'cause the round bases work well for holdin' irregular shapes.
Bill


----------



## jordanp (Feb 1, 2013)

Thanks for all the perspectives, I think round is going to be the way to go, considering I can just grab some dowels and then drill some small blocks of wood to make my square tops for them, That veritas surface clamp is awesome..


----------



## Bsmith (Feb 2, 2011)

If you start with round and don't like them you can always make them square, but not the other way around. I like round though.


----------



## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

I like round. Lots of bench accessories/jigs can be made by using 3/4" dowels.


----------



## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

My old work bench had square dogs and on the new one I just finished I went to round dogs. The number one reason is holdfasts. I like the fact that the dog holes can also serve as hold fast holes. Reason # 2 is because I can make dogs easily from 3/4" dowel stock. Reason # 3, Veritas has a number of work bench accessories that work in round dog holes. Reason # 4 is that drilling round holes is a lot easier than making square dog holes. I felt that any slight advantage offered by square dogs is more than offset by the above reasons.


----------



## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

Curious Mike, what are the advantages that PWW listed for square dog holes? Only thing I can think of is they won't rotate on you.

I've seen a few ideas for making round dogs with a friction fit spine. One is plane just a bit off one side of the dog then plane or cut a slight angle at the bottom end and attach a piece of spring steel or wood that adds a little friction against the side of the hole.


----------



## Tedstor (Mar 12, 2011)

I use round. Square might have advantages, but round has never let me down.


----------



## paratrooper34 (Apr 27, 2010)

Tim, correct, they won't rotate. I have both square and round on my bench. I personally am indifferent to which is better for performance. However, round are nice because they are easy to put in. Gives a lot of freedom for placement. Plus so many aftermarket devices attach to the bench with a 3/8" round adapter, hard to not choose round holes.


----------



## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Shoot. All you need is a "Square Hole Drill Bit" Problem solved… *;-)*


----------



## jap (Oct 10, 2012)

Another vote for round. But either will work great. Here is a good article: http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/?p=775


----------



## jordanp (Feb 1, 2013)

That is crazy Mike… Drilling square holes… Bet I can't pick up one at Ace huh?


----------



## BentheViking (May 19, 2011)

I was working on my bench design a few weeks ago. I was worried about dogs falling through the hole (real or imagine concern???) so i was thinking of attaching some masonite boards under the bench after the holes are drilled. I originally thought about nailing it on, but after reading some of the other comments here about saw dust filling the holes i think I may screw the board on so it can be easily removed


----------



## Marty5965 (Jan 27, 2013)

The bit is cool, but the oscillating drill is the expensive part I would bet. +1for round.


----------



## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

Ben, What I'm doing is using 3/4" dowel in a 3/4" hole. I have to sand the dowel a bit, otherwise it's way too tight to use. I just have a tight friction fit to hold them in place. You probably wouldn't want to do the Masonite, unless you intend for your dogs to always be above the benchtop. I made my dogs about 2" longer than the thickness of my benchtop so I could push them up from underneath.


----------

