# I'm Running Out of Options, People!! Wait: Free At Last!!



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Okay, so this is only vaguely related to woodworking, but we can hopefully share some information here.

I sometimes construct things based on iron pipe. My Reed #7 pipe vise is currently in the hands of a borrower, so I snagged this low-cost vise from an antiques shop as a standby and also because it looked like an easy de-rusting project.



















*The threaded stock is so impossibly frozen to the cast iron body that I cannot turn it. *

Now I've tried various penetrating solvents like Liquid Wrench and Seafoam Penetrant. I've tried heating with a heat gun, and propane torch. It has been soaked in vinegar for 36 hours. A pipe wrench with or without cheater bar, and a pneumatic air chisel to try and get this threaded shaft to turn. I've tried inverted cans of dust spray, to try and chill the superheated parts. I am shying away from absolute bull heavyhandedness because I'm afraid of twisting something, either in the vise or in me, so I keep within my limits. I've even drilled a .00625 hole midway in the threads to allow extra penetrant to find its way into the unseen threads. No Dice!

Next I will try Butyl Cellusolve, once I get to the paint store. I want to get this vise painted and back to working condition without ruining it!

Do you know of a proven method that you have successfully used?


----------



## GR8HUNTER (Jun 13, 2016)

i would try and soak it 24 hours in evaporust if that dont work im at a loss :<((((((((


----------



## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

ATF and Kerosene 1 : 1 ratio and immerse the frozen vise and wait.

ATF ( automatic transmission fluid )

Best of luck

Some folks use Acetone and ATF one to one ratio as well.


----------



## bold1 (May 5, 2013)

Best stuff I've ever used for freeing corroded parts is the Army bore cleaner for cleaning rifle bores. You can get it at most Army surplus stores. Old stuff was in small green cans, newer in plastic. It will take off paint and blueing if left on. You wrap a rag around it and soak it. If after a couple days it's not loose, there's probably no way it's coming loose. Not sure what's in it but so far I've never had it fail.


----------



## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

Soaking in Evaporust would probably work, but you will need quite a bit to fully submerge it. Next best thing would be electrolysis IMO. It has always worked for me on badly frozen parts. Other than those, soaking in various concoctions along with heat will usually get things loosened up, but might take a while.

Cheers,
Brad


----------



## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

I've always had good success with Phosphoric Acid PK. It's very thin and I think it would penetrate into the threads. I'm not sure if it would loosen them though… It works by converting iron oxide (rust) to iron phosphate (which is a anti-corrosive) So if the two parts are bonded via rust, they might just remain bonded. I don't see any harm in trying it though. Best of luck!


----------



## hairy (Sep 23, 2008)

This. http://www.kanolabs.com/penLub.html

I've only used the liquid. It's the best penetrating fluid.


----------



## LeeRoyMan (Feb 23, 2019)

Keep the threaded part in water and heat the brace. That way the screw doesn't expand with the brace.
Just a thought, don't know.


----------



## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

How hot did you heat it? Go hotter and hotter until it moves.


----------



## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

I use a torch and a BFH. Heat til HOT. If really thick I use my propane/oxygen torch, then tap with a hammer various directions. Tap on the very top, tap from the very bottom, tap the handle one direction, then the other, rinse, repeat.


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies!
*Tony: * Soaking in Evaporust is a possibility, but I'm at the point where I believe deep penetration with solvents will outperform a de-rusting medium. I've already had this soaking in vinegar for 36 hours.
*Wahoo*: Which type of ATF, Ford or Delco? Or is there any difference?
Hairy: Jeez, I haven't seen Aero Kroil in Decades! They still make the stuff? Dad used to swear by it, and he was a machinist. I'll look on Amazon.
DonW and SMP: I was just using propane, but I will go hook up my brazing kit and give it a go. I've got some snapped #7's ready to re-attach anyway, might as well see what's in the sick bay.
*Thanks all for the great replies! * I've never been stumped so badly by rusted threads before.


----------



## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I've heard drizzling some wax on the threads as you heat it helps. I've never tried. I just keep heating until it gives up.


----------



## LeeRoyMan (Feb 23, 2019)

My brother worked in a machine shop and when he would mount a piston to the rod he would heat up the rod until it was glowing red hot. Point being is you may have to get it pretty hot.


----------



## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> This. http://www.kanolabs.com/penLub.html
> 
> I ve only used the liquid. It s the best penetrating fluid.
> 
> - hairy


Absolutely +++++

Kroil costs a few pennies, but is the best rust cutter I have ever seen.










I have 3 cans of the spray, with a tip (similar to the red tip for WD40) it can get into stuff you'd never get a hand into. I spray, and walk away, come back the next day, and it's ready to comply with hardly any pressure at all. If you want to stand there it really only takes about 10 minutes for most jobs.


----------



## Delete (May 19, 2017)

I keep a can of Keystone No.1 penetrating oil in the shop and it usually works for me, a good soaking left overnight usually frees it up, sometimes a couple of good sharp raps with a ball peen on the end of the threaded member helps to break the bond after soaking.

I would be careful with high heat depending on the material of the vise frame, cast iron has a different coefficient of expansion than the steel threaded screw, too much heat will crack the iron, if it is forged or cast steel high heat might be what you need to break the bond.


----------



## Brawler (Nov 12, 2018)

An old trick of unseizing an engine that has sat too long is soak the cylinders in diesle fuel, that may be an option.


----------



## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

PB blaster works , Kroil or Aerokroil is best but expensive. I get it at a local auto supply. Most chains don't carry it.


----------



## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

Just read up on Kroil. That's some pretty nasty stuff! Must work great or nobody would fool with it.


----------



## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Im in the ATF / acetone camp.

Then i usually move to brute force and ignorance.

The latter typical doesnt turn out well.


----------



## redlee (Apr 11, 2016)

Heat !
Oxy Acetylene heat it fast and bring it red.


----------



## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

+1 ATF and Acetone soak for 24 hours.

Smack the screw thread rod couple times with 3 lb hammer (avoid impact to cast iron), and it should rotate.

If still not loose, make a u-shaped block of steel to fit snug over the top T-coupler, weld a 1" nut to top and use 1/2" impact wrench to apply torque. Something will break free eventually. LOL

If you want use heat with impact wrench removal, use kerosene as it won't flash fire like acetone with torch flame. It just smokes, turns everything black, and stinks like hell.

Best Luck!


----------



## jacksdvds (Jun 13, 2015)

Treat it like a nail, use a hammer and pound the s**t out of the housing when hot. Might break the rust loose deep inside. Maybe?, can't hurt if all else fails.


----------



## hairy (Sep 23, 2008)

If you resort to brute force with a BFH, put some brass between the hammer and the iron.


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks again for all the encouragement!

This project has certainly escalated. At first I figured a couple of shots of Liquid Wrench was all I was going to need.
Then, I tried a heat gun, believing that only a little persuasion would do the trick. Then a progressively more methods that I mentioned earlier.. It seems to me that the iron frame is of the 'malleable' variety, and I'm afraid to put too much force on it.
I am determined to save this tool, and not make some kind of fatal mistake. Though rusty, the pipe jaws have no wear on them and I want to preserve this. I will try the ATF soak, and then see if I can find some Aero Kroil from a Canadian source if the ATF doesn't work. You guys are undoubtedly right about the dissimilar metals between the screw and housing.


----------



## Johnny7 (Jun 1, 2015)

I have successfully freed up many heavily-rusted, threaded objects by immersive soaking in a citric acid bath.


----------



## Peteybadboy (Jan 23, 2013)

Evaporust complete soaking…let us know what works.


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Okay… it's been soakiing in a goop of ATF and kerosene for a day and a half.

Now, I've got to ask a stupid, though hypothetical question: What if this vise was on a welding table, holding a piece of iron pipe in its jaws, and the ground clamp was clipped onto the handle of the vise? Wouldn't there be lotsa juice, passing from the screw handle to the vise body? I'm just trying to imagine other scenarios beyond simple corrosion.
I'm not sure about Evaporust, borax electrolysis, or vinegar. Those methods are not known for penetrating rust bound threads.

Next will be 'Aero Kroil'. I remember this stuff out in the garage back in the late 50's and I'm glad it's still sold around here somewhere,,, I'll probably have to order it through Amazon internationally. Citric Acid is a good tip as well! Ty for all the great responses, folks!


----------



## LeeRoyMan (Feb 23, 2019)

You have way more patience than me. 
If it were mine it would either be unstuck or in 3 pieces in the trash can.
Good Luck to you


----------



## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

If the vise was tight, the current should pass through with no problem. If Kroil won't do it, get a bigger hammer. Or a real pipe vise from Rigid. I always hated the Reed pipe vise!


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*I got it!!! It finally broke free!*








After sitting in a toxic soup of ATF, Marvel Mystery Oil, and paraffin lamp oil, and after beating it senseless with an air chisel with a rounded tip, and then a Ridgid pipe wrench with a 48-inch aluminum cheater bar, and a 3 lb. sledge whacking on the bar… it finally gave…. a little. It would not give it up to me, about 50 revolutions to turn the screw all the way out of the engaged section, fighting me all the way, ... toying with me, LOL! But now it spins with barely any resistance.

The tally? 
Vise $15,
ATF $12,
Liquid Wrench, $3 worth,

Gallon of vinegar $8
Oxygen tank $11,
Mapp gas, $4 
Paraffin lamp oil $4
Seafoam penetrant. $12

. That's $69!!! And all I wanted to do was thread some 3/4" pipe to make long clamps….in case I need them. I coulda bought one on eBay that works, I guess.

I'm fascinated by old iron, and was determined that this vise wasn't going to throw me!!
*
I owe it all to the LJ community, with the thoughtful input from members wiser than me. * Thanks, guys!!

I am now ready to tackle some brazing projects, namely a Bedrock type 12 #605 1/2 and type 12 #7, both with the front half snapped off, and a Lincoln V&B with a spun-out thread on the tote in the base.

Or, maybe I'll purge my whole workshop and start fresh from scratch with Veritas tools…


----------



## jacksdvds (Jun 13, 2015)

Congrats, it was probably the whacking with the heavy sledge. I told you so! LOL


----------



## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Setting the vise free: $69
Getting to whack stuff with a sledgehammer: Priceless!


----------



## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

> Setting the vise free: $69
> Getting to whack stuff with a sledgehammer: Priceless!
> 
> - ChuckV


Living proof entertainment is not free


----------



## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

I wasn't going to recommend this, but we had a fire main valve in one of the berthing compartments that was due for PMS (Planned Maintenance System). The guy who went to close it and reopen it couldn't budge it. He got a helper, nope, not happening. They put wintergreen oil on it and let it soak, and came by once in a while to try and cycle the handle. It took about a week before it freed up, and the compartment smelled less like dirty socks (and worse) for awhile. I will note that they both had 3 foot long pipe wrenches to cheat with. I'm glad that that pipe was sturdy, because if it had broken, a 6" line with 150 PSI fire main pressure would have made a mess in a hurry! I knew that you would not have this sort of stuff available for the vise, and a 3 foot cheater would have trashed your vise.


----------



## GR8HUNTER (Jun 13, 2016)

GRATZ poopie its not how much you spent …. its that you conquered it and WON :<)))))) *NICE VISE*


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks again, everyone!
I can't explain it, there's a hundred things waiting to get done in my workshop, and I let myself descend the gates of Hell for a totally unnecessary tool and push all else aside til I conquer the problem. Though truly my big hammers don't come out of the drawer that often.

There is a place in my solvents cabinet for Acetone, Vinegar, ATF (I used 'Ford') Seafoam penetrant, and all the other witches' brews out there that you guys kindly mentioned.. Citric Acid too, and Oil of Wintergreen, hmmm. isn't that also known as Methyl Salicylate? I've used that as a kid, applying it to slot-car tires makes them really grabby and less prone to slip and slide.

In the first post I mentioned *Butyl Cellusolve*. This was from a 1970 article in Peterson's Hot Rod magazine. I'd heard of engines locking up tight and seizing for good if they were run for any distance with anti-freeze in the crankcase. Butyl Cellusolve will squirm past stuck pistons and free up a stuck or seized motor. But I've never SEEN the product sold anywhere until a chance visit to the paint store recently, and there it was!! I guess it will remove paint spilled on any surface because it is a known surfactant. It naturally explores microscopic gaps and gets under paint, but has that property of penetrating too. I'll buy some soon.

*Any other rusted bolt stories to share? Unusual solvents or techniques that actually worked?*


----------



## hairy (Sep 23, 2008)

An ounce of prevention…

https://www.permatex.com/products/lubricants/specialty-lubricants-anti-seize/permatex-anti-seize-lubricant-2/


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, Hairy!
I'm somewhat familiar with anti-seize lubricants. Decades ago I was a laborer in a plastics injection-molding plant. The dies used were in two halves that were forced together for molding, then separated for the ejection of the molded parts in a continuous cycle. There were guide pins, an inch in diameter to ensure the halves lined up. We had to coat them with some heavy-bodied grease with flakes of real copper in it. I wondered if I could pack wheel bearings with this stuff, it lasted forever.
Overall, though, if anything in my shop is seized, it came into my shop that way. Pre-treating all the moving parts would be an interesting way to achieve immortality, but hey how much longer am I going to be around?


----------



## MikeTurner (Jun 30, 2012)

> *I got it!!! It finally broke free!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dang that sounds like me with the tally of the $..i have done that kind of thing indeed.!Glad it finally gave up!


----------



## OleGrump (Jun 16, 2017)

Kinda reminds me of the time Dad had to use a 3' pipe wrench to open a quart jar of Granma's homemade dill pickles. The challenge of getting the damned thing open became the issue, not the contents. (although I LOVED those pickles, myself)


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

> Kinda reminds me of the time Dad had to use a 3 pipe wrench to open a quart jar of Granma s homemade dill pickles. The challenge of getting the damned thing open became the issue, not the contents. (although I LOVED those pickles, myself)
> 
> - OleGrump


The vinegar that Granma used to make the pickles might have come in handy for opening the jar…if she hadn't used it all.


----------



## farmfromkansas (Jun 16, 2019)

You might say I'm cheap, but the last time I had a steel threaded part I could not get apart, but did not need immediately, I just dropped it in a bucket of used motor oil. Tied a wire onto it, so I could pull it out occasionally to check it. After a few days, It came free.


----------

