# Rail and stile profile help



## Dan2020 (Sep 30, 2013)

I am looking at building cabinet doors for someone and they selected a profile I have never done. They saw this design at Lowe's and asked if I could duplicate it. I am having trouble finding a good way to create this. The plan is have the profile in the picture on the rails and have the stiles be a basic mission style. The angle of the bevel is 9 degrees but as long as I am close (8-15 degrees) I don't think it will matter. The door panel will be recessed with a 3/8 inch reveal. I know Freud makes a rail and stile bevel bit but that bevel is only about 7/16 long. Thanks for any advice you can give.
Also: I do not own a shaper. I have a nice router table setup and was hoping to utilize this.

Dan


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## jmos (Nov 30, 2011)

That would be a really hard profile to do on a router, especially in one pass. Most rail and stile bit sets are designed to make the profiles with two matching bits so the rails and stiles slip together. Most I've seen have 1/2" or 7/16" tongues. For as long as you chamfer is, you would have to remove a lot of material.

Would your design allow for a separate chamfered piece to be glued in place on the front of the door, rather than milled as part of each rail and stile? If you are using plywood or MDF panels, that you can glue in, you could cut the chamfer on the table saw and then apply it to the door. If you're doing solid wood panels, you could try gluing the chamfered piece to the rails and stiles, but not the panel to allow for movement.

If it has to be a one piece rail and stile, I would use the table saw. You can use a dado stack to make the groove for the panel, a regular blade to cut the shoulder and chamfer, and then cut off the excess on the back of the door.


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

Use a vertical panel bit to make the chamfer, then just the top section of a mission set to do the bottom section. You will have to use a mitre construction. There are sets out there to cope and stick, but and the size of that profile you would need a real shaper to do it.


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## reedwood (Jan 27, 2011)

If the rails are square and the stiles have this detail you wont be able to 45 the joint.

Finding a raised panel sized stile and rail bit that big will be the problem. haven't seen one yet.

also, 3/8 recess only leaves you 1/8" on the back with a 1/4" dado. on a 3/4 door.

1/4" plywood panels feel light weight cheap and they're noisy when you close them. 1/4" recessed Solid 1/2" panels with a rabbet on the back are really nice.

no room for hinge pockets either.

Not a fan of the profile…. surely you could talk them in to something similar but better?


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

There's a problem with your drawing. The part of the stick *under* the panel should protrude as far as the upper, beveled part. That way the groove for the panel only needs to be 1/4" or so. Grizzly has bits with that profile, but the length of the beveled part is only about 3/8", not 3/4". Others vendors carry the same bit. Even in a shaper cutter from Grizzly, the profile is only 3/8".

If you must have that 3/4" profile, Joey is right, the only way to get it is with a vertical panel raising bit (not a rail and stile cutter).


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

.


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## mikeevens45 (Jan 31, 2014)

dado blade at 9 degree angle due to the 3/4 inch set . top of mission set for bottom gonna be tedious ….are you sure its not a standard tongue and groove joint with a separate inside trim piece?


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## Dan2020 (Sep 30, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies,
I think I am going to experiment using a vertical panel bit for the chamfer and the table saw for everything else. I am also thinking of using actual 1" stock for the rails and stiles so I can use 1/2" for the panel. Anyone see any major problems with this approach?


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## mtenterprises (Jan 10, 2011)

Easy to do on the table saw.
MIKE


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## reedwood (Jan 27, 2011)

1" thick doors are kinda chunky. not really necessary. 13/16 is nice. You can still use a 1/2" panel if you route the back 1/4". it will end up flush with the back of the frame. That's how I do it.

Sometimes, 1" doors can be a problem if they're full overlay doors. Material is expensive too.

The drawing doesn't list the full width of the frame - you are showing it's only 1 1/4". I like to make these 2 1/4" to 2 3/4" wide x 3/4+ especially if you're using pocket hinges.

Someone mentioned adding a separate piece. That is a great idea as long as you don't glue it to the recessed panel. There's your solution!


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## Dan2020 (Sep 30, 2013)

Sorry, my drawing is a bit incomplete. The frame will be 2 3/4 and the stick under the panel will extend as far as the bevel on the top of the panel so the panel groove will only need to be 1/4". I am not real keen on gluing a separate piece for the bevel but if that is what it comes to I guess I will.


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

Use this vertical bit, or similar in your router table. run vertical is the best way to do with the tools you have, once you have the chamfer done this way, you can cut the panel groove with a dado, or another router table set up. Then construct them as miterd frames.

Edit: BTW that is from the frued catalog (if you didn't recognize the red) Also, you can do an offset groove if you wanted to with a mitre construction, or even on a t n g construction. You can get offset cutters for large shapers to cut offset cope and stick, or even glass sets to have no back shoulder.


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

In the interests of keeping it simple, would you consider making the profile like this?

Then mitre the bevels and loose tenon.


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## Dan2020 (Sep 30, 2013)

Renners,
That is about what I am looking to do. The question is how do I get that bevel?


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

Table saw/router table combination, then take a little wisp off with a shoulder plane to clean up.

I could do that with my saw which is right tilt and allows the fence to be positioned either side of the blade and have the waste fall off. Or you could make a sacrificial fence if the fence is to the right of the blade.

How are you hinging these doors? euro hinges/butt hinges, overlay or inset? Be aware that 1" thickness can cause problems with Blum type hinges, what are the panels made of? I ask the question because here you can buy veneered mdf in 1/4 and 3/8" thicknesses which are great for door panels and can even be glued in, no rattle and would allow stiles of 21mm (13/16 as reedwood mentioned).


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

The answer is to use the vertical panel bit in your router table, I have posted to get the bevel… It is widely available, and easy to set up and use, than use a dado, or router table setup to do the channel.

Take heed of *TLJFKA renners* advice on door thickness, and hinging. 1" thick doors can be an issue.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

The profile that LJFKAR (Renners) shows is easily done with a router bit. It's a standard profile for many manufacturers. Remember you also have to do the rails, which require undercutting to get the reverse of the profile on the stiles. Also, if you do the bevel on the table saw, it's hard to avoid swirling blade marks, which then have to be sanded out. Why would you want to do this the hard way?


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## Dan2020 (Sep 30, 2013)

The plan is to use euro hinges and the doors will be inset. The reason I am considering a thicker door is because the profile on the vertical chamfer bit is 15 degrees. If the bevel is going to be 3/4 inch long with an 1/8 inch above it a below it I need something a little bit thicker. Below is the image I









was given to replicate.


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

It makes more sense now you posted the picture. You have the options now, only you can decide whether it's worth buying a new router bit for this project. Look at the technical drawing for the hinges you intend to use for this project and respect the Max door thickness they specify - go any thicker with the stiles and the corner of the door will bind on the edge.


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

Oops, duplicate post.


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

In that config, you could add the chamfer as a moulding after assembly, and just use a typical shaker set.


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## reedwood (Jan 27, 2011)

Looks like the door in the picture shows it to be two pieces. sure would make it easy. If your worried about the grain you could even cut it off, route it and re glue it. lotta work no one will see. but us.

Interesting that this came up. I'm just putting on the final coat on my own cherry kitchen cabinets and I have a similar detail on the side panels. They're 1/2 recessed with a 3/4×1/4 trim piece added. Of course, this wouldn't work on a 3/4 door.

My doors are full thru mortised square framed (no 1/4 rnd. detail) with full raised panels. all beef.










can't wait to finish! good luck with your project.


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

I thought the bevel moulding was planted at first, but if you look there is a continuation of grain in the bevel. It would be a bit of an arse gluing that in anyway without making a mess. Is that a door or a drawer front anyway. Unusual for the rail to extend the whole width. (if it's a door)


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## reedwood (Jan 27, 2011)

uh oh you're right! fooled me! 
a one piece profile indeed would be better, just got to figure out that M&T joint.

funny, here in the drawer front example - it is a one piece and yet it looks like two pieces! ha!

whatever you come up with, let us know.


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