# mill charges



## bblogna (Feb 8, 2011)

I took some endgrain cutting boards to a local mill and asked them what the charge would be to run them thru there drum sander. The office said it would be the minimium fee and that was 15$. Great I though I toook them to the mill and the worker asked me what kind of wood was in them? I told him maple,cherry ,and walnut .He said it wouldn't of been a problem to do them but they can't run anything with walnut in it thru their mill becuase they sell their sawdust to horse farms and it cant have ANY walnut in it it is bad for horses. So i take it to another lumberyard and the guy says yes he can do it for 9$ for every 10 minutes, i was reluctent but decided to have it done he estimated it would take 30 minutes I said ok do it. He called me when they were done and said the bill was 57$ with tax and it took 30 minutes. I told him he said 9$ for 10 minutes when it is actually 9$for 5 MINUTES he told me. We had a heated discussion in which I was told not to come back and i told him not to worry I won't be back who could afford to at those prices. I went to the mill office to pay and discuss it some more with someone else they agreed to let me pay the price i was told (9 bucks for 10 minutes) but their fee really is 9$ per every 5 minutes! This seems outrageous to me especialy when the other place was going to do it for 15$ 
I'm in ohio i guess after my long winded story what I'm really courious about is, is 9 bucks for 5 minutes of work really a fair charge?


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

No.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Ouch


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Did they give ya a Band Aid to cover the wound?
"Once burned, twice carefull".
Bill


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## AandCstyle (Mar 21, 2012)

Wow! I need to start charging a lot more for my CBs. LOL


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## pwgphoto (May 1, 2012)

That is outrageous. You are a better person than me. I would have been naming names of the business and doing my best to tell of not only their inflated prices but their trying to not stand by the original quote. Businesses live and die by customer service and word of mouth.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

No


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## bent (May 9, 2008)

it's cheaper than buying your own drum sander.


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## johnstoneb (Jun 14, 2012)

That is $108 per hour. If you figure cost of the sander, setup time, wages and overhead. That is not that bad. If you don't want to pay buy your own drum sander.


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## BrandonW (Apr 27, 2010)

I guess your best bet in the future is to go back to that first place, but find an alternative for the walnut.


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

How many endgrain boards did they sand for you in half an hours time , and were they to your liking when through? How many grits did they sand through to get the finish you wanted ? 
You couldn't have done it yourself for less if you had to buy the equipment and supplies if you think about it.
Even a decent belt sander and belts would have cost more than that .


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## Straightbowed (Feb 9, 2012)

SELF SUFFICENT IS THE WAY TO GO HIT THEM WITH A GOOD LOW ANGLE JACK PLANE OR ROUTER WITH A WHITESIDE 2 INCH DIA. PLANER BIT HARTVILLE TOOL 51 BUCKS FREE SHIPPING


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## Straightbowed (Feb 9, 2012)

I USE THE PLANER BIT AND SET UP A JIG AND PLANE OFF THE END GRAIN IT TAKES JUST A FEW MINUTES WITH THE ROUTER AND PLANER BIT


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

How many cutting boards were there?


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## bblogna (Feb 8, 2011)

It was 5 boards 12×15 they were sanded twice to 150 grit. The work done was nice but I could of done it with my belt sander but was looking to save some time.
I will have to look into router and planer bit.
Cheaper than buying my own yes, worth 108 dollars an hour NO


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## oldworld124 (Mar 2, 2008)

I don't think your friend who is charging $18 per hour will make any money. Belts cost more than that and will probably be worn out with an hours worth of end grain sanding. Either way, I would not even consider running a big machine for that price.


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

Ditto that , John O.. 
How much is the person running the machine getting paid per hour , besides the cost of the machine , belts , electricity , insurance , and all the other overhead costs involved in running a business ?


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## bblogna (Feb 8, 2011)

I think the price is still way to high. Car dealerships, auto mechanics dont even charge that much. I work in construction and our time and material rate is 65 an hour. Plus that is not the rate I was quoted when I droped off the boards to be done. He says it was what he told me but i didn't just pull the 10 minute number out of the air I know thats what he said. He also said that the belts were not cheap but come on you dont ruin a belt on 5 blocks of wood end grain or not. i seen the belts they had one 12 inch wide wear spot that was used but still had plenty of grit left to be used more


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

That yard has to pay the operator, pay for the machine, buy belts, electric, rent, taxes, possibly Social Security, all that stuff. Doesn't sound unreasonable to me. Only alternative is to buy your own - looking at Grizzly's site their cheapest wide belt sander is $3,600. You decide.


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## rustfever (May 3, 2009)

I have a wide belt sander. Cost $17k. The belts are $60 each and they are not life time belts. I purchased 80, 100, & 120 belts, two of each. Cost $600 to have have a new 3 ph breaker and some wire to get it to run. $1800 more for a upgraded compressor plus another $200 for electrical to get the compressor to run. Needed to run a new air drop, which I did in an afternoon with used parts . Cost $320 to have a pro come in and set the sander up, get it adjusted & calibrated, etc.

Did I mention I need to rearrange the shop to the new equipment in?

I guess I will not be doing any custom sanding as it appears those that do not have the sander have no idea what it cost to obtain and operate it.


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## Gshepherd (May 16, 2012)

Expensive yes, doing it for 18 bucks an hour is a slow death in a shop. Wide belt sanders are high dollar machines and provide a far better finish. I figured even at $45 per hour, 40 hrs a week, 50 weeks a year doing it myself I would barely make 20k a year after shop rent, insurance, electric, and I did not even figure in replacement belts….. or any problems with machines that might arise. Go flip burgers and make that much a year and I would not have that big investment. How much is your time worth?

Unless you own your big shop and have all the big equipment one would really understand the true cost of running these machines. Switching from Hobby to Production is a total diffrent game. So the 100 bucks does not sound all that bad considering.


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## bblogna (Feb 8, 2011)

Really?, the machine cost and over head, still not buying 108$an hour is fair. You dont have to make all your money back from 1person and the mill has been around a loooooog time definately not a new $17000 machine and it has been set up for a long time all those cost for new and set and wire part of doing business.
@rustfever as for custom sanding No you will not be doing much if any for those of us who have "no idea" guess you just wasted $20280 and alllll the effort to rearange your shop


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## rustfever (May 3, 2009)

So I am required to give my time, machine, disposables, insurance, general overhead to you for nothing?.
Were I a union employee, the cost to my employer would be over $1 per minute. [ Yes, that is $60 per hour. Oh yes, the sanding belts are disposable and will cost another $20/$30 per hour.]

NOT!


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

You don't necessarily pay for what is done so much as for what they know, Is the rate high? yes, but you are in a union state and well that drives things up considerably.


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## Gshepherd (May 16, 2012)

Hate to break the bad news here but a 17,000 belt sander is not a lot, when many cost 4 times as much. I bet just to have 1 employee dedicated to run that machine is around 60-70 bucks an hour. This would not even include any breakdowns and there will be…... Just to get a return on machine cost only is almost 2.00 a hour over a 5 year period…. You make a investment you expect a return don't you? That 2.00 a hour for the sander is rated over 5 year time and no return. Dust Collection, we are not talking your shop canister system but the 100k plus systems many of these companys have to have just to be in touch with the OSHA and Health depts….. There is a lot you do not know and can expect to know but do not think for one moment it is cheap. Running a belt sander in your garage is one thing, going to a commercial shop with that equipment and rules and regulations is a total diffrent world…. Commercial Wood shop have the highest rating for fire, even more than a welding shop…. Insurance for these shops is sky high. Replacement cost for my shop as of a year ago is over 650k…... Insurance company took 2 days listing equipment and a week later told me what it would take and they would not do it….. To big of a risk…... I have a small shop…. nothing compared to these large shops. I am just talking about insurance for equipment, health insurance is another sky high cost.


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## George_SA (May 4, 2012)

To be fair, one can't compare the price of a belt sander to the cost of doing 5 boards. On the other hand investing 17K on a belt sander is probably out reach for the average woodworker who does woodworking for a hobby. In the end you must decide whether $11.40 per board is too much or not. The way I think about it is "will I be willing to sand that board for $11.40?"

On the other hand considering that the first mill only charged $15 then the second mill's prices were probably to high. My 2c worth.


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## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

good grief how did this OP question turn into my sander cost more than your sander!

Th OP was quoted a price!!! and then the agreement was broken!!I hear it all the time a contracter lowballs the bit to nail it down and then at the end asks for more money than the bid states without doing any additional work. the excuse "it took longer than I expected"or "parts cost more" Who's fault is it that the contractor is stupid certainly not the customer. (By the way I AM a successful contractor and I Stick to my original bid.) most of these posts are addressed as though one needs to recap the total cost of the machine and supplies in one job….good luck with that and as the patrons of the OP good luck with return customers.
Overhead is not created or paid for by one piece of equipment . I have paid more for a job because I thought it was worth it but ever more often i have had to remind people that we had a binding agreement as to cost prior to the job. now I am at the point that I will write down the price as we talk it over and have them sign it before turning on the machine. A year ago at this point a fellow asked me to leave…..he has been sued several times since.
OP thanks for standing your ground!


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## derosa (Aug 21, 2010)

Sometimes it also isn't worth it to charge full price which is something we run into in the bike shop, if you've got people standing around because it is slow or a low point in the day sometimes doing something for just over cost will help in the end of the month totals. Something like cutting boards isn't a big time item and a company shouldn't really be expecting to charge what the OP was charged. 
When someone brings us a clunker that isn't worth fixing at all we give them a price for everything, then we let them know the minimum that will be needed for it to run. If they want it all fixed and we feel it isn't worth the money we ask for all payment up front. If they just want it to run we tell them a day or two more then the scheduled time and stick it in the list. When we have a slow point or a learner standing around the bike gets brought out and fixed usually adding in an extra adjustment or two, wheels need adjustment so we might tighten up the brakes a little as well for free. In the end there isn't any real money made on the job but someone gets extra experience or a slow spot was kept moving and we made just enough in labor to see to it the employee earned his pay. Same way with the cutting boards, set them aside and when there is a lull have someone toss them through the machine and make sure you get enough for paper and the cost of the employee's pay. Can't take a lot of these types of jobs but they can make the jobs that get filled around them pay off better.


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## Gshepherd (May 16, 2012)

REO, good grief how did this OP question turn into my sander cost more than your sander!

Where in this thread it did this?

If it isn't in writing these days it ain't crap. When you don't get bids in writing your just inviting trouble and there will be trouble. If it is not in writing then don't bitch if the price is diffrent. If you can't get it in writing just turn and walk away. If you do not like the prices then go elsewhere, plain and simple.


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## longgone (May 5, 2009)

A fair charge is whatever you agree to pay.


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## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

|GS
1 there were some who justified the upcharge of the OP upon the cost of their overhead and equipment costs. without any knowledge of the actual circumstances in which the OP had his work done. certainly a large shop such as yours and others here couldn't make any money by doing this small job. Thats what the small shops are for. Like me for example I don't have to worry about OSHA. 
2 I am sorry you feel that way about someones word although it is a sad commentary on society today peoples word cannot be considered to be valuable.
3 It should not have to be in writing to prevent someone from lying either way. A persons word should be enough. sadly this is not the case. I believe there is definite cause for complaint if the bargain is not upheld.
4 Was pointed out in my post by reason of not having it in writing
5 I don't think that that was part of the question asked here and I don't think that anyone has made a point to the contrary. 
You are sounding a little huffy there GS did i ruffle your feathers?


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## pmayer (Jan 3, 2010)

There is a timeshare shop near me that charges $2/minute for non-members to use the Timesaver, or $1/minute for those who pay monthly membership dues. While that seems expensive to me, that is a monster sander and is probably faster than a lot of drum sanders. Here is their full rate sheet: http://northcountrywoodshop.com/?page_id=28


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## Gshepherd (May 16, 2012)

REO, I am ok… But sadly not having it in writing open up the doors to problems. Having been burned for over 70k in the last 12 months by Cabinet companys who lie through their teeth makes one much harder. I have Liens on several projects right now that have been done for over 6 months and am still waiting to be paid. So even on paper, lawyers, collection agencys it is still all a bunch of crap. When these bastards close their doors and file bankruptcy after screwing over numerous vendors.

I had a Electrician do a lot of work at my shop who I have known and done business with for at least 8 years prior. He quoted me a price, we shook hands and that was that. Until he sent his bill which was over 4k over what he quoted me. I did not have it in writing so my fault. He got paid but never again….. Exact same excuse, material were more than I thought. To me your word is your bond. Sadly in this time and age most do not care one damn bit.

Typicial guy working out of his garage has no clue how much it cost to run a shop. $108 bucks a hour sounds pretty darn high, unless your a shop owner. It is sickening all the hoops one has to go through any more to keep one open. I am going to court today because after 3 1/2 years the Landlord in an Industrial Park got busted for not having the proper firewalls and Building usage not correct. So he just trys to Evict. After I spent over 25k for upgrades to better suit my needs. After pleading my case on Monday the Judge did tell the Landlord he was being decietfull and knew darn well there could be problems so he set a trial for today. So in 10 or so hrs from now I will see who is going to be responsible for my expenses, downtime, getting everything rehooked back up. Moving a 5,000 sqft shop is no easy task. sorry for the rant. I am just a one man operation.

So my earlier post sound harsh but in a nut shell it is what has to be done and even then there is no guarantee. So if getting 108 bucks is getting all your money back I missed something there…...


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## bblogna (Feb 8, 2011)

108×40=4,320 a week
4,320×52=224,640 a year. One man is suppose to generate about a quarter of a million dollars a year for a business?


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## Gshepherd (May 16, 2012)

How does that say getting a whole 108 dollars pays for it all at once…. Get it in writing next time. If you do not like the price go elsewhere. Better yet, crack up your belt sander and do it yourself and you won't waste anymore time deciding what is fair or not. Now that you know there is so much money in it go out and buy a wide belt sander and go at it. Good Luck…..


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## RHolcomb (Mar 23, 2010)

I guess I'm very lucky that my Mill guy lets me come in and use his sander any time I need to. He doesn't charge me anything but I have to do the work which is fine. He's just too busy to take the time to stop what he's doing and cater to me. I agree with Gshepherd. Get it in writing!


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## Gshepherd (May 16, 2012)

bblogna, For the record here, $9 for every 5 min is high. I have never heard of pricing pointed to me like that before. Usually a MIN and a hr rate, less would be pro rated of course. In writing would eliminate any misunderstandings and give you the back up needed. Always get it in writing. Protect yourself. I have made the same mistakes and have paid dearly for them. Sad it has to be this way as others have mentioned.

I have guys all the time call or come over wanting something quick done and I do it. I charge nothing…... If it takes me some time then it is a diffrent story and what I charge is so cheap they pay me more without me asking. I have met some great old guys this way. A few will have their wives bake a cake or bring over a 6 pack of pop cause my girls are there a lot.

There are only a few guys who I would let run my machines and some machines only I will run. Let there be no mistake those big machines are pricey and cost to start up. When running mouldings with the dust collector I am pushing 150amps…. Trust me that is not cheap….. Employees are expensive. Shop cost are out of this world… Not everyones expences are the same either. Some will be higher and some lower. Some will price it just to steer you away.

Getting it in writing just lets you know your cost so there is no surprises and if there are you have something to protect yourself with. Shame you had to have a bid written up for such a small job but look at the ordeal you had to go through also by not having it. I know your pi$$ed and I would also be if I was in your shoes.


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## bblogna (Feb 8, 2011)

Yes get everthing in writing got it.


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## harrymontana (Dec 8, 2012)

strange they charge by the hour or minute, here we charge per BFT. Of course having done 1 BFT is more expensive then an entire truckload (set up time)


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

I charge more then that, and I dont even come with tools


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## Whitewalls (Dec 30, 2012)

New to the board here and have been reading a lot of the posts on this. I am in construction and I cost the company 65 an hour. What they bill out is around 80 dollars an hour to a customer. When you go someplace to have work done and you don't like the price, you have to look at it from their perspective. They have a company to run with tools and rent taxes insurance etc. How much do you make in your job? Whether you are a lawyer, doctor, mechanic, plumber, electrician, roofer, salesman or whatever job you do, you still cost the company money. Figure out what you cost your company an hour and then that will put it in a little more perspective. I know guys that complain about their mechanic charging 75 an hour, but as an electrician they cost more than that with less tools. It's all relative to what you think is fair.

Should he have changed the price on you? No, that is complete bull. But is 108 an hour a rip off? It all depends on how you want to look at it. You don't have to supply the power or the tools, so I think that is pretty fair. If that sander were to break, then he's got downtime on that machine plus the cost of repairs. You are looking at it as him trying to pay for one machine. He's looking at it as paying for his business to stay open.


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## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

Local shops here in CT that advertise wide belt sanding have usually been in the $100/hr range.


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