# Ever have a Spouse, or Family Member(s) who can't stop complaining about your hobby?



## newbiewoodworker (Aug 29, 2010)

In my case its the later…hopefully the former won't come about until I am 80 or so… lol…

It seems all my family does is complain about my woodworking. And I offer solutions… just not the ones THEY want…

For example:

My grandmother, and my father, both will not stop complaining about me leaving the INSIDE garage door open. It allows the heat from the house, to trickle in, to help warm up my space, a little faster. Because my heater, unfortunately, is trying to thaw out Antarctica… And its about 10,000,000,000,000BTU too small…
-So I offered them the solution: I said, "I know leaving the door open causes alot of heat to go out the window… or door in this case…; If you would like to buy the foam board, or atleast go in 50/50 with me, Ill gladly insulate the space, to help lower the heatloss." My father's answer… "No, its fine." 
--Okay… so In this case, the family wants its cake, but to be able to eat it too. They don't want the heatloss, but won't spend the money, a small portion of what it costs in heatloss, to help solve the issue. Okay, so its a "We are going to complain, but not going to help you solve the problem" Situation. I would do it myself. But the cost of putting up foam board, or batts and drywall, would cost me mucho dinero. I think somewhere in the $3-400 range.

Todays example:

My father says to me, on the way home from school "You need to clean up the dust, before you do any more woodworking. Its getting on my floor." "Okay, I told you I was going to do it this weekend, I don't clean in the middle of projects.". 
-I then also offered the solution: If you would like to run the needed dust collection, that might solve the issue. Again "No its fine."... well apparently its not fine, because you guys don't stop bugging me about it. "Sorry Father, but machines make dust…. and I don't have the systems in place, nor the money, to do so." "Well maybe cleaning more frequently would do it"... well… gee dad, don't you think I would if It would make a difference… The planer shoots shavings all over, there is no possibly DC for Circular saws, or sanders, nor for my Mitre box, the way I have it now…
--Another case of the previously mentioned.

So my question: Do any of you have family, or spouses, that just can't seem to understand the workings of your hobby.

*This wasn't intended to be a rant*


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## RSmike (Jan 14, 2011)

My little misses doesn't appreciate the amount of work needed to make a rough cut board into something that can be used to make furniture. I have about 1000BF of rough oak. There are days that I just want to run down to the big box store and buy something ready to make into something. Seems like a spend most days just making sawdust…. as my wife says….making big boards into little boards.

And it's a hobby not a catalog store where you put your order in and it just shows up…. It's a hobby and sometimes I just don't feel like playing with my power tools….

RSlater,
RSmike


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## superstretch (Jan 10, 2011)

I can certainly relate as to where you're coming from, but if I may, let me make some assumptions and offer alternatives to keep waters calm-

It seems like you're in your parents house (?) using space they've allotted to you in their garage. As a homeowner, I know the cost of keeping a house warm, let alone heating uninsulated space. It seems like if they're willing to let you use their space, they don't really owe you anything in terms of going 50/50 on insulation or dust collection. If its your hobby, you should put up the funds to continue in it. I know cash is hard to come by at times, so you might have to come to a compromise at some point, but doing your share and beyond will more than likely make your dad feel generous. If you have a birthday coming up, ask for some cash to install insulation in the garage, not merely as a hand out. I can't think of a guy out there that wouldn't want an insulated garage, but it might not be priority enough to warrant him spending anything.

All in all, just keep a good attitude about stuff and you never know when it might get rewarded. Respect your dad and grandma and you just might end up with them meeting you half way.

As for cleaning up, its always a good idea to sweep up and pick up scraps after every WW session. It takes all of 5 minutes and your fam doesn't have to put up with tracking sawdust in, as well as you have a nice, professional place to work (believe me, it boosts mental clarity and morale having a clean shop).

Good luck!


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Amen superstretch.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Newbie,

Im not trying to be a jerk or whatnot .. but my old man always had the same line for me when i didn't like or want to do something while i was living in his house …his answer was always "Why? Because i pay the mortgage". I think you just need to play by their rules, while you may not see dust or heat loss as a problem, he obviously does and you should try to see his point of view on things. I know when i have to cough up $900 for oil every 2 months during the winter i want it to last as long as possible.

Getting him to see your point of view is another issue all together. You obviously have a hobby that you enjoy which is great, im sure you could be out gettin in trouble, smokin grass, or drinkin booze but your not .. kudos to you. I think if your dad or family sees you puttting in the time to keep a tidy shop and trying to keep everyone happy they will begin to embrace your hobby with you.

Next time your working on somethin ask the their opinion .. do you like these woods together? should i rout a profile in the edge of this? Open up the lines of communication and things will smooth out, heck maybe the old man will give you a hand sometime. In time you will have your own dedicated shop to your hobby, i know it feels like its forever away but time will pass and your hobby will still be there, along with your very own shop.

Be easy newbie.


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## Broglea (Dec 9, 2009)

I asked my son to shovel the sidewalk after the last snow storm. He said,"Sure for $5". I responded OK, but it will cost you $5 this week to live in this house. Come on Dad are you serious? I told him it is a privilege to live here free of charge.

If my name wasn't on the mortgage and my Dad asked me to keep the garage door closed or to sweep the floor I would do it. The other option is to find your own place with a heated garage to call your own.

Just how I see it.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

I want to thank superstretch and chrisstef for saying things that needed to be said and for saying them so well.

Whew!... I can now put my belt back on my pants and take a deep breath! *;-)*


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

i get to make choices all the time
should i buy food
or insulation
or firewood
or fix the car
all on $575 a month
by alternating my needs every month
i get to do some things i want sometimes
and others i need sometimes

there is nobody here to argue or discus this with
so i have to convince myself
if i want to spend money
so $400 worth of insulation
means i don't get to eat anything but 
hot dogs for 30 days

moderate and compromise
learn to use a broom daily
buy rolls of insulation
one roll at a time 
as you can afford it

not many started out with a table saw 
most had an old handsaw
and a cheap hammer

if you think life owes you something
you may be very disappointed

if you want friends
you have to be friendly

someday you may have the best shop in existence
but if you can't talk with your family
or share that love

what's it worth ?


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## newbiewoodworker (Aug 29, 2010)

Super: I don't feel as if they owe me anything, per se. I never ask them for a dime(well… I do ask them for about 200 dimes a month.. lol.. just to cover phone bill, and maybe a 2×4…lol). Appart from where its warranted. They are the ones who elect to approach the issue, so I offer a solution… I always know the answer… but it gets them to leave me alone….for about 24hrs… I don't really want them to spend any money on me… Its just a ["Honey, paint the kitchen""Will Neon Pink do, its the only colour I have"] Kinda thing… Its just a good way to get them to leave me alone on the issue.

Chris: Nothing "jerkish" about that. I understand what you are saying, I really do. I know money is hard to come by, and is the reason, most months, I don't collect allowance, just $10 for the phone.., which has kinda absorbed into a bill he just pays… Money makes the world go 'round, and ultimately, in a depression, the world kinda slows down…
--I do occasionally ask their opinions on things. Does Pine go with more Pine…answer is always yes… lol… I do ask on profiles occasionally.

Almost forgot:

Mike, and Cessna: I do clean up often. I try to put tools away whenever it drops on my foot(dropped both a nailgun, and a chisel on my foot in one go.. Because I was trying to prevent the circular saw from going too.. lol…that was an idiot move.. I forgot to support a plywood cutoff….), gets in the way, or at the end of the night…
--I usually clean too… Its just if I am in the middle of a project, I am the kind of person that goes and goes and goes, then cleans up the mess… takes 10minutes… its just I never quite notice the mess till I go to clean it… But I usually keep things organized and clean… I wax my tools weekly…


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## damageinc (Jul 18, 2010)

Sorry but you only live in your parents house. My parents were very supportive of things that I did when I lived at home that were out their sight, and therefore, out of their mind. If you use the tools in the garage, keep the garage clean or your tools might end up outside one day.

I live in Wisconsin, it's cold here in my garage too. I use a small propane heater to keep my fingers warm. I'd get much better feedback from my wife by leaving the truck running in the garage with the door down than keep the door open to the house for heat.

I just lectured a kid. Crap. Now I'm old.

Sorry, looks like you were trying to vent and the old guys are slapping you around. So was I. Just remember, out of sight out of mind.


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

On the shop insulation issue. I have to ask. Who owns the building the shop is located in? That is the person, or people that have the right to complain… For example, in my home right now, is my wife, myself, and an invalid brother in law. My wife and I both own the house, and I am NOT about to complain about my woodworking, but she does have the right… However, the BIL not so much..

If it's your house, do what you want, but be respectful of your elders. It is surprising how fast you become somebody else's elder… It actually kind of stinks if you ask me!

Is the garage sheet rocked? If not, you are a LOT of steps ahead of a lot of us on insulation. You might just buy yourself some peace of mind, and peace in the house if you spring for the insulation yourself. See if you can get dear old Dad, and maybe even Grandpa to help you insulate the space. It will improve Dad's home value, and keep Grandpa from feeling the cold breeze!


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## superstretch (Jan 10, 2011)

@Damage- Judging by your profile pic, you have a long ways to go yet before feeling old


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## newbiewoodworker (Aug 29, 2010)

Tell me if I am taking this out of context: Did I come off sounding like a "Spoiled Brat", from what I can see, it looks as if you people think I am. Sorry, not good at reading other's emotions…. Asperger's thing… its a [insert Female Dog]...lol…

The garage is not sheetrocked, appart from the house side…and ceiling, both of which are Type X, taped seam.

I doubt "Dear old grandpa" is doing anything… I just wrote a letter to the family court judge, handling my parents divorce, in persuit of a restraining order against him…. Assault and Battery… So he is out of the equation. On the other hand, my father is what we call, mechanically-uninclinded… if thats even a word… He doesn't know the difference between a Spanner, and a Spacer…


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Hoooooo-eeeey !

You're getting some great advice, and it doesn't surprise me a bit.

I'm 46, but … in my mind … I'm NOT the "HEY, you kids … stay OFF my lawn" guy … yet.

At least, I don't think so.

But I have to side with … well … everybody.

I sort of feel like …. the best life's lessons *I* ever learned were the biggest, and most bitter pills to swallow.

You want out of this situation ? Get a job … or … another job. Use the money to meet their needs-whether that means finding a used, powerful, space heater, a used decent dust collector, a Habitat For Humanity store-or CL ad-that sells sheetrock, and putting it up yourself, or …. maybe even the worst, most LOW-paying (or NON-paying) job you can at ANY cabinet or furniture or woodworking shop, nearby.

Work for them-doing ANYTHING-in exchange for the learning, and-if you're lucky-the access to their shop, when there's free time.

Or a local LumberJock who is willing to make you a similar trade: your labor for their knowledge, and use of-probably with their supervision-some of their tools.

Or …. sell your 120V and 220V, and get yourself some hand tools-chisels, saws, planes, and a broom and dustpan. Shavings are easier to gather and remove than sawdust. The noise isn't a factor, and the skills you'll acquire WILL make you a better woodworker.

But I think you said you have two more years before you can go off on your own.

I'm sorry, Buddy, but this is going to sound harsh ….

You've gotta' suck it up, and live by their rules for those two years. IF you can make DEALS, during that time, then … by all means … make deals.

But … the day you cross the line, and you lose ACCESS to THEIR garage … is the day you just lost all the ground you gained, all the time you worked toward gaining it.

You're just not in a great bargaining position. Right now, you don't have much that they want, and they have much that YOU NEED.

Any way to swing that balance a bit ? Can you renovate anything in the house ? Make new cabinets for the extra bathroom ? Refinish the kitchen cabinets ?? Finish the basement ?

Can YOU give THEM ANYTHING … that they WANT … that will make them more free with THEIR resources-a win-win situation ?

WHICHEVER way this works out … you WILL learn from it. You'll either learn what it means to be dependent on others for your living-maybe you'll like it, and maybe you won't-or you'll learn the fine arts of negotiation and compromise.

That last part IS NOT sarcastic: you WILL learn, though this, if you allow yourself TO learn.

If it were ME … I'd probably try to find an existing commercial shop, and BEG THEM to let me work there. That would give you what you want, what you need, and … your parents …. their house back 

Just … try to think that way: how can I work this situation so that *we both* win.

There's usually a way.

Best of luck !!!!


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## superstretch (Jan 10, 2011)

Like I said in my first comment, I went on what I saw on the post and the blanks were assumed. I remember you making another post about your fam a while back.. sounds like a fun ride.

Also, this is a tough crowd you're talking to here.. Lots of vets, lots of people who don't have anything leftover after bills to support their hobby, and lots of people who scraped and clawed to get where they are. I didn't assume you were a spoiled brat, just offering 2 cents on how to get what you need and do so in a way that keeps things cool at home. It sounds like wood working might be an escape for you, so do your best to not inadvertently jeopardize that.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

"Did I come off sounding like a "Spoiled Brat""

I don't think so.

Not at all.

What it seems you ARE, though, is dependent on others, right now-your parents-and, apparently, NOT during a great time in THEIR lives.

They may simply not be in a very giving mood, at the moment, so … I THINK you're best bet is to either figure out what YOU can do for THEM (in exchange for what it is you want FROM them), or bypass them, entirely, and find another way to get your (admirable and reasonable) needs met.

No. Not a spoiled brat at all.

You're a woodworker. You're learning, and doing. That's A Good Thing !


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Another round of applause for *Dan* (Superstretch)'s comments !!


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## superstretch (Jan 10, 2011)

Hahah thanks *NBeener*. Can you guess that I've been in a situation similar? I got a lot of insight growing up from wise people and from the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People". Ultimately, you want to make sure you're doing right by everyone, but if the situation can be win-win, why not take that option?

Also, *NBeener*, you provide fantastic insight in both in woodworking and life. Wise words.. *friended*


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## Seeharlez (Mar 16, 2010)

When I lived with my parents my dad would always complain about the state of the shop, and I would deflect, blame other, avoid and so forth. Now that I have my own shop I know exactly where he was coming from and don't blame him one bit… his house, his rules!


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Dang "Beener" only 46 huh? On behalf of us +50'rs, welcome to ARRP. You earned it! But seriously, well put.

Newbie, there is a lot of good advice here. I hope you can find that "right" answer that will help you weather your current situation until better days.


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## newbiewoodworker (Aug 29, 2010)

Okay, I just wanted to make sure. Patron gave me an enlightening "Heads-up" to say the least. To the key of, that I was coming off as a spoiled brat. Believe me. Just because my father's family is well off, doesn't mean it trickles down to me. In the summer, I work 56hr weeks, weather dependent. Most of my job, involves dealing with people who are the most ignorant of all…beach goers… that and slaving over a grill, in 120* heat..(on a 90-100* day)... Its not the hardest of the jobs… but it certainly weeds out the clowns…

I expect nothing, and frankly, rarely accept anything.

Its going to sound funny…. but I actually have offered my *parents* money… to help with bills… But 99.9% of the time, they have refused. Only one occasion i recall my father borrowing money..

Beener: I would inquire into a job at a cabinet shop, or with a contractor, but unfortunately, Labour Laws prohibit kids from working with/around alot of whats in those places…


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

When I was 15 I got my first job…car hop…$15.00 per week and tips. I gave my mother $5.00 a week. Did she need it? No. It was to teach me about the real world. My brothers and sister did the same thing. Better listen to Mom and Dad and Grandma and Grandpa..one day you will wake up and they won't be around to "Nag" you.
Suck it up.


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## newbiewoodworker (Aug 29, 2010)

No, I see where he is coming from, *Seeharlez*, but in the present, it gets tiresome.
*Mike* thanks. I do hope "Spring" is around the corner… cause this year long "winter" is getting old..

Howie: I probably posted after you read it: I do have a job. Summer only. But I have been working, since Age 12. $1-200/week… *palma non sine pulvere*


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## newbiewoodworker (Aug 29, 2010)

Bently: Reason to fight with my grandfather…or reason to want him under restraining order? For the later: He grabbed me by the throat..and threatened me with a black eye..because I made too much noise…
--I am as respectful as I percieve the respect is towards me. Not always the best on that one, see Asperger's…. Ask any adult, outside of my family.. they think I am wonderful. Not a complaint about me… My boss also, no issues.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

"Beener: I would inquire into a job at a cabinet shop, or with a contractor, but unfortunately, Labour Laws prohibit kids from working with/around alot of whats in those places…"

You sure ?

There MAY be a law about them HIRING you, but … not necessarily about you "working" there … unpaid … doing clean up and gopher tasks.

I'd check, if I were you, and … if there IS any way to do some stuff, legally, for one of those businesses, have a printed copy of that law in your hands.

And … I take it you're serious about Asperger's. From the little I know … that has to be a challenge. Brain works fine. Don't always pick up on contextual social cues. Makes face-to-face interaction very difficult.

Never let your "disability" (I'm disabled, so I don't mean that as a put-down) stop you. I think you know that. You'll just have to find the right path, and right environment for YOU.


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## newbiewoodworker (Aug 29, 2010)

yea, I am very mild.. but it still affects those "context clues.." Most people don't even realize I have it… till I have to explain it, when something goes arye..which it rarely does… But online, its a whole 'nother ball game…

The law: http://www.dlt.ri.gov/ls/childlaborProhibited.htm See the forth from the bottom.


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## j_olsen (Sep 19, 2009)

I'm not too sure if this will help but for me right now this is how my life is working at the age of 50!-I have been unemployed now for 21 months after being in the costruction and woodworking industries for over 25 years-i can't even get a job working at lowes because they claim I'm "over qualified"-with that said I have had to move in with my brother and mother here in TN-I am very grateful that I have family that have room for me and I try to keep my "footprint" very small here-I have a very large shop area to work in (24' x 30') which is shared with my brother who is an OTR truck driver and when he needs to get his truck in the shop so he can do repairs my tools are all wheeled into a corner-when I finish working during the day everything is swept and put away in case he rolls in off the road and needs the shop-as others have said 'his place his rules' and even at 50 I have to follow what is placed out there and be totally greatful for having the place to work and a roof over my head 
-just my 2 cents worth


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## fredf (Mar 29, 2008)

Stop a moment and think of your classmates. How many of them know what they want to do? How many are working to get there? How many are kinda drifting with the tide??? I suspect the answers are few, fewer and most. Many adults tend to think most kids are in the 3rd group. Most fathers don't face a (I'm assuming here) a mid teen who has your abilities and motivation. I also might expect that your father is under a lot of emotional stress at this point in his life (we certainly don't need the details, but wanted to point out.) I think you can understand that he might have a problem dealing with a precocious teen at this point in his life. He might even be hurting enough that he can't see the nose in front of his face.

As far as suggestions for your problem with insulating. Look around the house, what maintenance chores NEED doing. Ceilings need painting?? Drafty windows?? what of those can you do a credible job with? (most I would suspect, from what I've been reading). Make an offer to do this, this, this AND insulate the garage for the cost of the materials. Try meeting him half way (or even more)

Your father should be glad that you want to be home doing things in the shop instead of being with your more "normal" classmates doing drugs or getting into trouble at the mall. He just may just not be able to see that right now.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Ya know everyone … i think this whole thread and conversation is a matter of perspective.

*Newbie *I'm not a person who tells people how to see things or how to feel but being a younger guy around here i feel like i have somethin to say to you on kind of a man to man level. I do this because .. hell i dunno why …

We all have lived our lives differently than one another and percieve the world in our very own ways. Reading through the thread here everyone has their views. Some come from an older generation who heard the stories and saw first hand the effects of the great depression. Some remember hearing those stories from their grandparents, and some like me (at age 30) have read about it in textbooks. Listen to the stories of other people it helps perspective.

Times have certainly changed throughout the generations and with that so did our perspectives. To some owning a home, providing for a family, having a nice car is a birth right. To others it was a life long dream. While i have grown up having plenty there are a lot of people who didn't. For example, take a peek aorund the shops of some of the people talking in this thread. Some you will notice have tons of shiny LN planes, some will have refurbished Stanley's, and some will have 2 hand saws, a card scraper, and a workbench made from an old door. Now look at their projects …. kinda similar arent they. It aint what ya have its how you use it.

What im gettin at is you need to be happy for what ya got bro, appreciate it, not everyone has the same opportunity that you do. Some have had to scratch and claw and work that ********************ty lifeguard job for 30 years just to get where you are right now. Ill offer to you one more thing my old man told me when i was young … "Chris, as a man, you're gonna have to do a lotta ******************** you don't wanna do, its part of bein a man". Definately no chinese proverb but has stuck with me for a long time.

One other thing, take what Patron wrote above, print it out, read it and think about it. The guy's a saint i swear.


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## newbiewoodworker (Aug 29, 2010)

Believe me… tried that… fixed the Trim work in the dining room, that was ready to fall, and knock someone silly. No thanks. Same night we had our confrontation.

In my town, as the security guard at the hospital put it, you have to be in 1 of 3 groups: A Smoker, a Boozer, or a Skateboarder… He said, if you don't do any of them… get out while you still can…

In my school, there are 3 classes: Straight A, A's B's + maybe 1 grade below that, and flunkies. Fortunately/Unfortunately, I fall into the Second. I used to fall into the first… but then life started playing ball too.


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## newbiewoodworker (Aug 29, 2010)

Very…Philoshopical… Chris… lol.. I understand what you are saying.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Newbie,
DO NOT take this lightly. I finally had to get out from under my father's roof and went to the Navy. Don't know your age and know there is an active war at this time (mine was Vietnam). That is where I ended up actually growing up. This is a radical step and NOT for the faint of heart. Do all you can to make your local situation work. Some options of escape are much tougher than others. Everyone has a burden to carry. Yours is no different. Breathe deeply and live one day at a time.


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## trainwreck (Jan 12, 2011)

You can pick up a Mr. Heater for about $40, and if you have a gas grill, you can put it on that propane tank. They put out quite a bit of heat! Filling a small propane tank isn't so bad-$20 around here (I'm in MN).


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## HokieMojo (Mar 11, 2008)

If it were me, I'd spend my own money to add insulation to my parents garage. The compromise would be that I'd increase the value of their house and I'd get to leave a door open. If they are unwilling, I'd bundle up. I have my own house and that is what I do.

From your parents perspective you are giving them 2 options:
1) pay for 1/2 my insulation
2) pay for the heat to escape the uninsulated space

I can see why they don't see that as a compromise.

Your space (if I remember the photos right) wouldn't require a whole lots of money to fix up the space and get it insulated.


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

I have read a couple of your post about the confrontations with your parents and grandparents. I want to start by saying that I am deelpy sorry for your situation. I think I read on one of your posts about physical abuse from your grandfather. That went over the line and it deeply troubled me. I grew up with extreme physical abuse. It hurts. After the wounds heal, it will hurt you emotionally for the rest of your life. I feel bad anytime I hear of a youngster getting abused. I do believe in spaning my kids. There is a lone though that should not be crossed. When that line is crossed, it is abuse, and that dog don't hunt in my opinion. 
I just wanted you to know that as someone who understands how bad being abused hurts. Now though, I need to switch over and talk to you as a parent of eight kids. 
There is a such thing as supporting your kids in their interests. From what I have read in the past from you, I was under the assumption that you were in that kind of environment, I don't know. However, there is also a lone there that, if crossed, goes into babying your kids. If you baby your kids, they will never grow up. While I support my kids in whatever they do, they have to carry their own weight as well. 
For example, one of my sons, some time back, decided he wanted to try his hand at woodwork. I gave him all the handtools he needed and access to all the power tools he needed. I didn't loan them. I gave them to him. I even had to go buy a couple of things. I gave him a section of my shop. I helped him build a work table. This was his area to do with as he pleased. I gave him, withing reason, access to my wood stash. He had access to enough free wood to build a house. The only thing any of this "cost" him was that he had to pull his own weight to keep these privilages. He was to "pull his own weight" by:
*Keeping his work area clean by sweeping and putting things away EVERY night. He didn't do it.
*Cleaning off any power tools he used (table saw, router table, etc.) as SOON as he was finished. He didn't do it.
*Put all scraps in the back room so that we'd have enough for the fire place come winter time. Under his work table is not the back room. He didn't do it.
I'll stop there, since I think you can already see where this is going. He got to keep the tools I gave him. I hope he makes good use of them. However, since he can't follow my rules, he no longer takes up space in my shop. He can do any woodwork he wishes to do elsewhere. I pay the bills there and anyone who wants to do work there will follow my rules.
So my son doesn't have to worry about my rules. He can keep his work area as nasty as he like. I don't care if he gets knee deep in saw dust. He can let crap pile up on his stationary tools until they have to be cleaned off every time before using them. That's fine with me. He doesn't have to worry about heat. He can put on a few extra layers of clothes and not have to worry a bit about it. How can he do all this? Well, he can do what I do and pay the bills on his own shop somewhere. Let's see:
*I rent my shop. I pay $300 a month.
*My shop is on a serparate power meter than my house. My shop lights run between $40 and $60 per month, depending on what I use and how much. So let's say a happy medium is $50.
I figured it up one time. Even though I have a free supply of wood, I still have to go haul it home. I did the math and figured out that my "lumber bill" (gas and such for the truck) came out to be, on average, about $40 per month.
*To keep heat in the winter (wood heater) I buy new stove pipe every year. I use double wall because spending more, in my opinion, is better that having it rust out and causing the shop to burn to the ground from sparks. I spend around $250 per year on pipe. Let's average that out to a cost of $20 per month if we spread the cost over a twelve month period.
So, let's just stop there. As you can see above, if he could find a shop with low rent (for the area) like mine, he needs about $410 per month just to keep his shop going. Do we really need to start calculating the cost of the power tools? Blades? Sandpaper replacement? Glues? Stains? Need we go on?
Now of course, even after I explained all this to him, he was still mad at me. After many warnings though, I couldn't help him being mad. He'll get over it. One day, he'll have kids. His kids will put him through this same stuff. If I'm still alive, he'll know just what I have tried to teach him.

So, I hope you can stop and try to put yourself in your Dad's shoes. Would you want a higher power bill because of your son's shop? Or do you think he should compromise with you and keep the utility costs down? Do you think your son should have the right not to clean up just because it isn't the way he like to do things? Or do you think that since he's in your garage that he should clean it up after every woodworking session just to make sure the dust doesn't become a nuisance to other? These are just a few things you need to consider. 
I'm not saying your Dad is 100% correct. I don't know enough of the whole picture to make that call. What I am saying is that, since you are in his place, that arguing will make things worse. Unless you start paying the bills, then it is his right to demand whatever he wants. There is little to nothing you can do but to compromise and make the best of what you have. I know that idea may sting, but, in the end, you keeping him happy can very well determine if you can do your hobby AT ALL. 
I do hope you can get this issue resolved. I wish I could offer more encouragement. You are though in a position though that prevents you from doing much about it but to give in if you want peace. I guess the best encouragement is this though:
Go look at some of my project. My father wouldn't let me do nearly what you have told us that you do as far as woodworking goes. All he wanted me to learn was mechanic work, which is what he done for a living. I did, and made my living at mechanic work for thirteen years. After I injured my back though, I turned to woodworking, something I never was able to do when I was younger. Look what I can do now. Before he died my father (remember, very abusive father) , said to me, and I quote, " I never knew you had such talent".
Put yourself in my place now, and realize the pleasure I got from telling him, "Because, father, you never allowed me to express my talent!"


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## newbiewoodworker (Aug 29, 2010)

The only thing, William(Do you perfer a shorter version, like Bill, or Will?) I can say is: WOW. Sometimes the abusive ones, can be the most gentle later in life. My grandfather(Mother's Father) was apparently a drunk abusive father. I know he knocked out my grandmother's(Mother's Mother) teeth… And would sit on their porch, with a shotgun, threatening to kill everyone. Ex-Navy, was actually schedualed to be on the USN Thresher. But now, 16 years later, 16 years sober, he is one of the nicest men I have ever met. Im not afrad to say, someone I look upto; A hero of sorts to me. So, people do change, unfortunately in my family, I do have examples of For the Better, and For the Worse…

-Pardon if this seems awkwardly organized:
---I completely understand what you are saying about the Support-vs-Babying. For example: I do clean the area, quite often, tbh. The only reason the dust got bad, was because, for the last week, I have been doing alot of work with ply and hardboard. The stuff makes a mess. I try to, as I mentioned, clean the floor, after every project, usually more, but tbh, I had a toybox sitting in the centre of my shop, that was hard to navigate. Usually I sweep to where it was, then vacume it up. So Thats one reason I kinda got behind. Also, after the incident, I have, without lie, been feeling down, not as quick to go into the shop, and even less likely to stay a while, since thats where the incident occurred(well, the start anyway..)
--------As I said, I rarely accept handouts, but rather I perfer to do what is needed, to earn what would be handed out. Like I said, I got a job at 12. Granted it was for a friend of my father, whom i am good friends with her kids, but none the less. I make an OKAY wage. $6 tax free + free food… 
---I do try to stay concerned with the heat. I intentionally, constantly tell him "Don't open the garage door, you'll let the heat out" I even unplug the opener. But people seem to do it anyway. That atleast helps to midigate the amount of heat required to re-warm the space. If I am not in there, I usually shut the door. Et Cetera.
-----Unfortunately, my thunder gets stolen by this grandfather of mine. They go to him for everything, carpentry related…yet he doesn't know a dado from a rip-cut. Granted I have all the toys… So when they need something, they have no issue using MY tools…(I have started taking out the keys.. since I don't wanna clean up blood… or buy blades when they bugger them up..) But then he expects me to do all the dirty work. Him: "I think I am going to frame a wall over here..""Brendan, you can go strip-and-stain that table over there"... for an example.. So, going back to Freds Comment on that. And whenever I do something, its always "Oh thats crooked" or "That doesn't look right"...


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## beckerswoodworks (Dec 26, 2009)

This really comes down to one simple question: Who's the owner? If that's you then when others complain simply remind them where the front door is. If not, then you need to remember where the front door is yourself and show the owners the respect they deserve by keeping your shop clean and following any other rules they lay down while you're a guest in they're home.


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## newbiewoodworker (Aug 29, 2010)

It depends what you mean by that:

My immediate family(Father, Mother(tentative; Divorce), Myself, and a younger brother) own the house. My grandparents are technically the guests.


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## beckerswoodworks (Dec 26, 2009)

By owner I mean your name is on the title as a legal co-owner and selling the house would require your signature. If that's not the case, then you are also a guest in the house and should either follow the owners rules or leave. My bet is that your parents are the owners, not you.


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## newbiewoodworker (Aug 29, 2010)

Sorry, question "Who's the owner" hadn't been specific enough. Because as I mentioned: The Imediate family owns it, but technically, yes, it is my parents.

I suppose us kid's don't really think of ourselves as "guests"... thanks for the reminder Don.


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## newbiewoodworker (Aug 29, 2010)

I think I speak for everyone Vincenten: BUGGER OFF. TAKE YOUR CRAP AND PEDAL IT ELSEWHERE.
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Okay, had to blow up on atleast ONE person today… lol…


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

I haven't read all the comments above so I apologize if this is already been said

I commend you on trying to find "win'win" solutions (going 50/50 on insulation, for example).

My suggestion is to sit down with the family to identify the problem (from each person's perspective) and come up with a solution that everyone is comfortable with. The more minds involved the more solutions will be thought of.

Some times we get stuck in our own agenda and have limited ideas to solve the problem. 
(And I also have to say: how wonderful it must be to have a family that supports you with your woodworking and giving you the space to create.)


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## BobG (Apr 17, 2010)

Newbie! You have a lot to learn, there has been a lot of good advice on here! There has been a lot of sympathy on here, but so far you still think you are right. You sound like someone I raised.

I had a whole lot more to say but I'm going to leave it here, it's none of my business.

Get yourself a catalytic heater for $40 bucks. A pack of 1 quart propane bottles, 6 to a pack. They are usually good for about 3 hours of heat. Of course the new heaters may be more efficient than the one I used. When you can, spring for a larger tank and then later on, a larger one again. Be careful where you put it because the dust will explode!

As far as the rest of whats going on. Take it from someone that has been there done that! IT WILL ALL WORK OUT! May not seem so now, and perhaps not as fast as you think it should, but it will.

And just remember, "God gets the last laugh"!!


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Newbie, it sounds to me like you are staying in your father's house while you are going to school. I don't want to be critical but it is your father's house and I suppose that staying there is helping you get through school. I think that some of those requests are reasonable and that you should do whatever you can to cooperate. Not every parent would even allow you to do it at all. I believe that you need to be a little more flexible. That's my 2 cents.


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## newbiewoodworker (Aug 29, 2010)

Completely valid, I am stuborn as an ox…

I have thought of that. And I realize, that well.. there is no right here. Im wrong in that I think everyone else iis wrong, and the grandparents are wrong(in my oppinion) for thinking they are the heads of the house.


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

I was lying in bed last night thinking about your situation. Something keeps bugging me about the whole deal. Your parents are supportive (from what you've said in the past) of your woodwork. I won't even go into the event a short time ago where your grandfather confronted you physically. There seems to be all of a sudden verbal fighting within the family. Something in the works has made your family train jump a track. Actually, lately it sound like it's jumped track and running down the road in the opposite direction.
So, several thoughts here. How good is your relationship with your father? Can you and he go somewhere and just talk, man to man. I say this because a couple of my kids have real problems communicating with me. They argue with me instead of talking untill things have blown up completely out of hand. They have yet to realize that, when there is a problem, if they'll sit down and talk to me maturely, that I can usually find a solution to any problem they may have. 
I don't know your father from Adam. However, a couple of things you've said in this post and others has me thinking along these lines. Your father seems to be stuck in the middle of caring for his kids and parents at the same time. I have been there as well. It is a hard spot to be in. While in that siuation, it is easy to impose on the kids rights as a family member instead of constant confrontation with an elder. You see, that is something that has not been said. As your father is your elder, your grandfather is the elder of both of you. Too often though, it is assumed that just because someone is an elder, doesn't make them have the right to run over anyone. At some point, the man in the middle of it all (your father) has to put his foot down and find a compromise that works for everyone, including you.
Now your problem in all this is finding a way to make your father take control of the situation at hand. That one can be tough. The best advice I can give you is to talk to him honestly. Tell him how you feel, not just what you want. Simply put, talk to him like a man, not like a child making demands. Remember that, in the end, it is all up to him, whether he is right or wrong.
One way you may be able to ease tensions is to make him realize that this hobby of yours is something that you love and that you are determined to better yourself at it, not just take up time and room. Explain that you want to help financially with the things you need for the hobby. Tell him how this will make the hobby more meaningful to you, knowing that you are paying for it yourself. Then carry through. This may involve paying for things without consulting him first. I say that because a lot of fathers can't take money from their kids. Actually it's not a "can't". It's just a gut feeling some of us fathers get when it comes to paying for things. I don't let my kids pay for anything that I plan to use or benefit from. If something is for a home improvement or to benefit the family in some way, I feel it is my responsibility, not theirs.
Now, before I shut up again, let me say that I understand that talking to him may not be easy. You may have already tried it even. You two may have to get completely away from everyone else for it to be possible. Sometimes a parent has to be taken out of the situation before he can stop long enough to recognize that there even IS a situation.


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

Hey, jeff, overqualified means they don't want to pay you anything decent. My father was an mechanical engineer and that's what he was told. That meant they could get someone cheaper. Ever hear of a doctor being overqualified?
Back to the subject, my wife asks me when I'm going to get a cheap hobby. Let's see- hunting, fishing, woodworking, custom fishing rods, etc. I told her I could quit all of them, sell allmy stuff and start dating again! That went over like a lead balloon.


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## beckerswoodworks (Dec 26, 2009)

Getting off topic a little but I couldn't resist repsonding to Knotheads comment since I've dealt with this myself at work many times.
Just my 2 cents but overqualified does not mean they don't pay you anything decent. It means they don't want to pay for a skill level they don't need. If the job I'm hiring for only requires a level 1 engineer, then I'm perfectly happy to give the job to a level 3 engineer if he wants it but I'm only going to give him the salary of a level 1. It would be irresponsible of me as a hiring manager to do otherwise. And a doctor can certainly be overqualified for the same reason. I don't mind having a brain surgon take care of a wart for me since he's certainly capable of it but I'm not going to pay his expected rates just because he's capable of brain surgery.


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## RonPeters (Jul 7, 2010)

If you were to insulate the space you would increase the value of the home. 
I think that would be an equitable trade. You pay for and install insulation for the use of the space?

Another option is to get an infrared heater for the area you work. Veritas just sent me a catalog with a really nice unit for $55. I installed a 1500W unit from Granger for 3x that. It's 36" long though.

I always clean up after I make dust. Except last night, or 12:30 this morning, I didn't want to run the vacuum that early in the morning. So I did it when I got in there first thing today. That will help the 'dust on the floor' problem you created.

A cheap airborne dust collector is to go buy a box fan. Then go buy a 20×20" (measure first!) furnace filter and duct tape it to the back of the fan. Run it when you're making dust.


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## Chriskmb5150 (Dec 23, 2009)

My wife usually doesnt complain about my woodworking hobby except for how much the tools cost. she calms down when i make her stuff. She raised a bunch of cain over some of my other hobbies, mostly cost… she has noticed that a new tool is required for each new project.

Music - she got upset when i spent 20 grand on a PA without telling her. "honey, i financed a small pa system today, hope you dont mind. it was $20,000"

Photography - "honey, i bought a $900 lens today, hope you dont mind"

I've learned to consult (sweetalk) her BEFORE i purchase woodworking tools. It keeps the peace ;-)


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

When I was 16 I thought my Dad had rocks in his head.
I was absolutely amazed how smart he got between the time I was 18-21. Give it some time and try to work with them not against them.


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