# Worst money I ever spent.



## lumbermeister (Dec 24, 2012)

Your overall point on the drum sander is well taken, but I think it is in poor form to place a picture of a competitor's product in a review of a different manufacturer's product. You do not know if your issue was unique to your sample, or, perhaps, unique to Craftsman and not Grizzly. You also cannot know the response of Grizzly's customer service vs. that of Craftsman (did you contact Craftsman?).

For the sake of basic fairness, please replace the picture. You are doing Grizzly a disservice for something they have know control over.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Pat, I would like to see a pic of your actual sander as I have an old Craftsman 18/36 that I bought for a bargain and it may be my favorite tool! It NEVER trips the reset unless I'm trying to hog off too much materiel in one pass. I have run mine for hours at a time cleaning up old barn lumber.

It is a MUCH better tool than my Jet drum sander that I bought new.


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## RibsBrisket4me (Jul 17, 2011)

Patrick did you have it on a dedicated 20amp circuit, or a shared 15amp circuit?

Or was it on a long extension cord???


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

This what you're looking for?


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## MarkwithaK (Sep 12, 2009)

I have no issues with using the Grizzly pic if it is indeed the same tool. I know that Craftsman power tools are just re-branded from another manufacturer so the likelihood that they are identical seems to track true with me. My only question is if it is a new sander why just sell it outright instead of taking it back to wherever you bought it?


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## RibsBrisket4me (Jul 17, 2011)

Grizz and Craftsman also share a clone jointer…


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## kajunkraft (May 7, 2012)

FWIW, I am in the market for a new (replacement) drum sander and went to the Sears site. The photo of their 18-36 was clearly labeled "Grizzly". gfadvm, is yours a really old one? I have a fairly new Jet 16-32 and am looking to step up a little. Issues I have with the Jet are changing the sanding belt and setting the tracking on the conveyor belt. Grizzly's video on changing the sanding belt looks no better that what I have now. Jet recommended that I step up to the PM for about $3K (I think my Jet was around $1K). Does anybody have any comments about the velcro thing?


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## tefinn (Sep 23, 2011)

Craftsman hasn't sold these for a couple of years now. They were imported by a company called Colovos Co. and badged with the CMan name. They were not made by Grizzly. They may have been made in the same factory from the same molds, but they are not the same quality as Grizzly. Sears does sell Grizzly tools online, but not in the stores.


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## PatrickB (Apr 30, 2010)

It may or may not be in poor form to add a picture of a competitor when discussing a product but that was the only picture I could find that showed what the drum sander looked like. I have looked for pictures of the drum sander but I can't find any. While you may think it's unethical for me to show the competition's drum sander in place of the actual drum sander that was not the intent as was clearly described in my opening statement. I had a 25 amp dedicated circuit breaker just for the drum sander. My next one is going to be a SuperMax. That style of drum sander is basically interchangeable with several drum sander that look exactly alike but carry a different name. Funny thing though, if I would have given the item a glowing report would you have complained that I used a Grizzly picture then?
Pat


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## RibsBrisket4me (Jul 17, 2011)

Wow a 25 amp dedicated circuit and it still tripped the breaker? Yep, something's not right there.


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## lumbermeister (Dec 24, 2012)

*Funny thing though, if I would have given the item a glowing report would you have complained that I used a Grizzly picture then?*

Yes - I would have. You cannot even be sure if the motors between the 2 units are identical - maybe (even, likely), but maybe not.

At any rate, thanks for replacing the picture with that of the actual sander in question. It makes for a fair and honest review.


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## tefinn (Sep 23, 2011)

Todd - I think he's refering to tripping the overload on the motor. If that is the case I'd like to know what was done to try to get it resolved. What did customer service do. Why was it not returned. If nothing was done, then that's the buyers fault. If it kept tripping the breaker, maybe the wiring is insufficinet for the load. It could also be a problem in the motor, which brings us back to, "was anything done to try to get it resolved?". However none of this is addressed in the review. We don't even know the model no. so we can avoid that particular sander. Sears has offered more than one CMan drum sander in it's recent history.


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## Dick33 (Jan 2, 2013)

I had the same problem with my performance 16/32. I made a jumper wire and hooked my amprobe on and it was kicking out way under the amp draw it should draw. Now when I use it for any length of time I watch the amprobe and can adjust the sanding speed and pressure.


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## JustJoe (Oct 26, 2012)

*Todd - I think he's refering to tripping the overload on the motor. If that is the case I'd like to know what was done to try to get it resolved. What did customer service do. Why was it not returned. If nothing was done, then that's the buyers fault*

In my not-so-humble opinion, I disagree. 
Rant on.
This is a review of a tool. A normal user should expect to be able to buy a tool, and when he gets it home and plugs it in the tool works. If nothing was done it's the buyers fault? That is some warped reasoning there. Put it to the mirror and he could say "It's a piece of [email protected], kept kicking the breaker, but I turned it back in for a refund so here's five stars." My point? A good tool shouldn't need anything resolved. It shouldn't need calls to customer service, it shouldn't require rewiring the shop if the stated amps on the product show the current shop wiring is OK. It should come complete, no need to call for missing parts or rummage through the nuts/bolts bin. It should have clear instructions and a spec sheet. These are things we used to expect when we bought something. Now we're saying if the buyer doesn't spend a few hours/days on tune-up or chasing down problems that it's his fault? I don't think so. 
Same for Dick in Iowa - that's a great tip to remember, but it shouldn't be necessary. If the tool says X amps and my wiring says X amps then I shouldn't need to hook up a multimeter. The only electrical question I should be responsible for is "Is it plugged in?" 
Rant off.


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## PatrickB (Apr 30, 2010)

Wow, feel like a punch drunk boxer here LOL. You folks keep a guy on his toes around here. I never really blamed Sears for anything. I bought it from a fellow that buys bulk shipments of items and then sells them from his shop. I live about 85 miles from his shop and had no interest in making a return trip. No, I never tried to contact Sears about the sander. That's on me and I accept responsibility for that. I also think it should have never left manufacturer. This was not a review about customer service from Sears, it was/is a review about a piece of equipment that had their name on it. I was not impressed with that piece of equipment and stated my opinion of it. The person who purchased the piece of equipment new about it's short comings and chose to purchase it anyway. Of course the fact that I gave him a very good price made it worth his while. I am not an electrician and I don't do wiring so yes, it could have been a wiring issue but to the best of my knowledge it was on a single circuit and no extension cord. I have little to no patience with a piece of equipment that does not perform to my expectations. I had talked to other people who had that exact same piece and never had a problem with it. They were truly happy with their purchase. I am not writing about their experience though, I am writing about mine. Every opinion (including mine) needs to be taken with a grain of salt. You may feel free to dislike my opinion or even complain that it isn't "fair" because I had a representative picture of the equipment instead of the actual piece of equipment up posted. I spent 9 years defending every ones right to their opinion and do not regret one minute of it, well ok, maybe a minute here and there LOL. But the fact remains it's just my opinion. I will not apologize for it nor will I change to make "someone" happy. I know turn the soap box over to whom ever wishes to use it.
Thank you
Pat


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## PatrickB (Apr 30, 2010)

JustJoe,
Thank you for your support. LOL, at least on person understands and that is good enough for me.Pat


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## MarkTheFiddler (May 29, 2012)

Hey Patrick, Just Curious - Do you have a model number?

The other question, and please excuse me if I'm off base, where you doing any sanding for thickness?

Thanks for your indulgence.


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## PatrickB (Apr 30, 2010)

Mark,
Sorry, no model number. It was dark blue on the base and said Craftsman Professional on the label. I did try thickness sanding with 36 grit and that ended pretty quick. From there I went all the way up to 320 grit trying to find a middle ground that would be acceptable. An honest question is not being off-base. There was a point that I got a decent run of about 30 minutes out of it but I had a high output fan blowing on the motor the whole time.
Pat


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

So if you bought it from a guy who buys in bulk and re-sells, any chance it was a second or a unit that Sears wouldn't sell themselves?


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## tefinn (Sep 23, 2011)

Joe - I think you're missing the point I was trying to make.

Say you were to go out and purchase a new truck. You get it home and find that every couple of days it won't turn over. What do you do? You take it back and get it fixed under the warranty. If you decide to just live with it, you have no right to say "This truck sucks. Don't buy one." If you take it back, and the dealer says we can't or won't fix it, now you do. All manufacturers have a lemon come off the line on occasion. It's what they do to correct the problem or if all that product are lemons that determine whether it deserves a bad review.

PatrickB's tool obviously had some kind of defect. If he did nothing to get the manufacturer to fix/replace the tool under warranty or return it, then that's his problem. If they wouldn't or couldn't fix it and refused to make satisfaction, it's a different story. Now you have a bad tool and bad customer service.

PatrickB said he didn't even buy it from Sears. He "bought it from a fellow that buys bulk shipments of items and then sells them from his shop." For all we know this was a recon or factory second, it didn't have a warranty and it's "buyer beware". This is almost as bad as buying it on CL and saying "I got ripped off. This tool is crap and I'm giving it a bad review". If he had bought it from Sears and got no satisfaction from them, I'd say this is a valid review and the tool is crap.


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## JustJoe (Oct 26, 2012)

*Say you were to go out and purchase a new truck. You get it home and find that every couple of days it won't turn over. What do you do? You take it back and get it fixed under the warranty. If you decide to just live with it, you have no right to say "This truck sucks. Don't buy one."*

No, if I buy a *new* truck, and get it home and it won't turn over then I *will* say it sucks, don't buy one. Those are the kinds of flaws that shouldn't happen to new trucks. The last stage of the factory is to check everything out and defects should be caught there. The fact that I can buy a new truck and it has such a flaw tells me that there is a problem in the process - might be design, might be construction, might be pre-sales inspection, but there is a problem. And with the price of a new truck I'm not giving any wiggle-room. Same goes for an expensive tool. A warranty is a bandaid. I'll take a tool with a 30 day warranty that works over a tool with a lifetime guarantee that has to be sent back to get fixed. I buy stuff to use it, not to go visit it every Tuesday at my local repair shop. 
That is another mentality that has caught on in the last few years and I don't understand it either. It used to be that companies would offer lifetime warranties because they knew their stuff wouldn't break. Now they make [email protected] but offer a "warranty" and some buyers are OK with it because they can just take it back (often repeatedly) when there is a problem. The companies know that for every individual that brings the item back and raises a fuss, there are a dozen who just blame themselves and try to find workarounds or put up with it because they are too embarassed to admit they bought a lemon - it must be their shop is too hot or too cold, their wiring sucks, they work the tool too hard, what if they upgrade the outlet, only take .00001" cuts, install an accessory fan etc.


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## PatrickB (Apr 30, 2010)

Tom,
I admitted to all of the items you reference, and in case you missed it, there was a sentence that says,
:No, I never tried to contact Sears about the sander. That's on me and I accept responsibility for that" haha you folks are cracking me up. Shouldn't you guys be in the shop making stuff and having fun???It ran like crap and I said it ran like crap. This guy has been doing this for years and has always been helpful. I didn't say he wasn't helpful, just that I did not want to haul 450 pounds out of my basement, load it on a truck, and drive another 85 miles. Sears normally has great customer service, I did not imply any thing to the contrary. It still boiled down to hauling 450 pounds out of my basement. It was not a "Grey" market item either. It was registered with Sears, they accepted the registration card. This particular item was a piece of crap. I have many Sears tools, I am a Power Plant Mechanic and Sears has time and again stood behind any product I have brought back to them. Now, in my opinion you folks are just plain being nit picky. This review did not follow format A,B or C so it's baloney. The simple fact is I did not contact Sear to "give them a chance" and that seems unfair to some of you folks. Get over it. It did not do what it was supposed to do and I told that in the review. That's what reviews are for. If you look at a few of my other reviews one was on great customer service. If this was reconditioned they did one heck of a job of getting all of the saw dust out, because it was clean as a whistle, with the exception of the packing grease. Unfair is for 5 year olds on the playground. Move on if you don't like what I said. This the last time I'm saying anything about this. My review stands.
Pat


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## brentasmith (Sep 9, 2012)

Great post and follow up… you guys aren't really that far off… since you have the tool side handled I will step over the line and say that people will fail people 10 times out of time if given enough time… Tools are made by people so they fail, churches are full of people so they fail… Woodworkers are people too, I'm new here but this site seems full of good people… Looking foreword to spending time here…


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## emetric (Sep 21, 2009)

I agree with Joe and Pat if you spend money on a tool, particularly one that requires this much effort to transport (and usually also very expensive) you should be able to get on with using it right away. Joe also made a very good point about the mentality shift of customers today thinking its ok to have to return a tool frequently (or at all) for warranty repair. I don't have time for return trips to the store. I understand that tools are made by people who make mistakes and therefore occasionally make a flawed product, but you would think in these cost categories the premium price would include stringent quality control on the way out the door. I don't think I have ever heard of Festool putting out a lemon. I will almost always return a tool instead of dealing with the hassles and loop holes of warranty service. I tip my hat to both Pat and Joe… Bravo gentlemen, stand your ground.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

Sorry guys (Joe, Pat, and emetric). Welcome to the new world. Engineered obsolescence is a thing now, and you are all to blame. I'm not going to get into a huge debate, but there is a reason that my dad paid 600.00 for an entry level craftsman table saw in 1985, and I paid 500.00 for my entry level saw in 2012. For the record, 600.00 in 1985 is about $1,260.00 in today's economy.

Half the tools I own I couldn't have afforded 20 or 30 years ago. We are cheap consumers now, so we get cheap crap. If you don't want cheap crap, there is always Festool, Felder, Powermatic (some may debate that at this point), etc.

What matters in today's economy is how well a company stands behind their pieces of crap.

I'm willing to bet Festool has their fair share of lemons but I'm sure it's far less. When your router costs close to 4 times as much as the equivalent (and highly regarded) Bosch or DeWalt, you can keep a better eye on QC.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

lumberjoe,

I agree with you. There is no way that my Dad, a hobbyist, could have afforded all the stuff that I, also a hobbyist, have in my shop today. There weren't even consumer versions of many tools available. Think of something like the DW bench-top planers.

(You have a typo: 600.00 in *1895 *is about $1,260.00 in today's economy)


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

Fixed it - thanks. I think even the well regarded consumer versions of tools today are actually kind of crappy. Take Grizzly and Rikon for example. Very well regarded among us consumers, and considered fairly "high end". Compared to their commercial brethren, they barely hold a candle in terms of duty cycle and longevity.

Is that a bad thing? No. Hobbyists don't need pro duty cycles, and they also shouldn't expect it. For some reason we do. There is a reason you can get a Rikon 10-325 for well under 1k (if you watch the sales), yet a Powermatic PM1500 is around $3,000. And that is probably considered entry level to many pro shops.

Want a 37" sander that will fire up every time and never bog down no matter what grit paper or how much wood you are trying to remove? For a mere $19,000, the PM WB37 is a couple clicks away from your favorite online retailer.


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## Purrmaster (Sep 1, 2012)

Thank you for the review, I found it valuable.

I tend to agree with JustJoe. I think a tool should pretty much work out of the box without a lot of fiddling. I think this is especially true for consumer grade models which it appears this sander is. A little tweaking to tune it to perfection may be needed but it should perform its essential functions pretty well as it is.

If I have to call customer service or do a lot of research or take it in for service that's a tool that I probably wouldn't want. Others mileage may vary.


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## Woodbum (Jan 3, 2010)

My drum sander is probably one of my favorite tools too. I have a Performax 16-32 (pre Jet) and it will trip a breaker if I get too aggressive with the depth of a pass. I also do not have it on a dedicated 20 amp circuit. Even with the occasional tripping issue, this is one of the most useful and functional tools in my arsenal. I have Grizzly tools, and am well pleased with them. I finally got rid of my last Craftsman stationary tool, a 13' drill press. It was an 87 model and worked very well for all these years. For me, older Craftsman tools…YES, newer Craftsman tools…NO


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