# methods of work



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Replacing a cane chair seat*

I am repairing a set of antique chairs.

The chair shown here had holes for hand-weaving cane. I have done hand weaving before and it is tedious and time-consuming and not a specialty of mine.

To save labor hours I've excavated a spline channel on top of the holes in order to allow the use of pre-woven cane. I cut the spline channel using a plunge router and an edge guide. The cutter I used is one sold for "undersized" plywood, so it is probably 7/32". The groove must be matched to the spline material so if you undertake this modification to an old chair, get your cane mat and spline before you cut the groove.

The cane is soaked for several hours in warm water and becomes formable to fit the spline channels. The splines have a slight tapered cross section and are wider at the top.

After the cane dries in place, I'll remove the splines, shave them down a bit so they won't stand proud of the seat frame, and reinstall them permanently with glue.

Cane seats last a long, long time if used as chair seats. Youngsters are sometimes undissuadable from standing on chairs and that's how the cane seats in this set came to be broken.


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## reedwood (Jan 27, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Replacing a cane chair seat*
> 
> I am repairing a set of antique chairs.
> 
> ...


I just took on a cane seat repair job - my first.

I figured it would be simple and planned on getting some advice. I didn't know about soaking the cane. Are there different size splines? They want to add a cushion so it won't show but I want to do it right so I guess I have more research to do.

Are you going to stain and varnish the new caning?


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Replacing a cane chair seat*
> 
> I am repairing a set of antique chairs.
> 
> ...


Yes, there are different size splines.

I haven't decided on the stain.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*How to set a chisel hoop so the handle won't splinter*


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## dkirtley (Mar 11, 2010)

Loren said:


> *How to set a chisel hoop so the handle won't splinter*


Great video, thanks for taking the time to post.

Only thing I would suggest is sealing the endgrain with some wax or something so it doesn't soak up humidity which can work it loose.


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## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

Loren said:


> *How to set a chisel hoop so the handle won't splinter*


Thank you for the informative tip.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Vacuum jig for cutting tapered laminate on sliding table saw*

Here's a jig I made to rip 40" long tapers that go from 3/16" at one end to 1/2" at the other.

One could band saw these out and then do the finishing on a planer, but I wanted to see if I could get glue-able surfaces right from the table saw.

It works well, and the surfaces are very smooth and consistent.

I'm making a chair prototype with laminated curved back legs. The wood I used here is just construction lumber and it has too many flaws to really be usable, but the tapers came out as nicely as I could have wished. Last picture is the tapers ganged up to show how the leg will taper from 2" to 3/4" over its length. The four layers will be glued and clamped into a curved form.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Vacuum jig for cutting tapered laminate on sliding table saw*
> 
> Here's a jig I made to rip 40" long tapers that go from 3/16" at one end to 1/2" at the other.
> 
> ...


Pretty nice Loren, what is the size of the blade? I could never make strips that wide on my TS.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Vacuum jig for cutting tapered laminate on sliding table saw*
> 
> Here's a jig I made to rip 40" long tapers that go from 3/16" at one end to 1/2" at the other.
> 
> ...


I think it's a 300mm blade.


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

Loren said:


> *Vacuum jig for cutting tapered laminate on sliding table saw*
> 
> Here's a jig I made to rip 40" long tapers that go from 3/16" at one end to 1/2" at the other.
> 
> ...


Loren - how about a little more info on the vacuum connection? Did you make them or get them commercially?

Steve


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Vacuum jig for cutting tapered laminate on sliding table saw*
> 
> Here's a jig I made to rip 40" long tapers that go from 3/16" at one end to 1/2" at the other.
> 
> ...


These are the cups:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VACUUM-TABLE-CLAMPS-PODS-for-CNC-WOODWORKING-/280402721057?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41494df921

I bought them a few years ago from the ebay seller
but never got around to doing anything with them.

There's a bit of a knack to pressing the work
against the cups so they all grab. The face has
to be pretty clean. The jig cuts so straight though
the offcut face is clean enough to stick right on
the jig with no jointing. The work won't slip at all.

The pump is a GAST model I bought on ebay like
10 years ago to do veneering with. I have a 
gauge on it and it pulls to about 20-25 psi
on the gauge… which is fine for clamping.

I have a right angle clamp I made years ago too
and it was useful for clamping cabinet corners
for nailing before I got into using dowels and confirmats.
It's also nice for sanding panels because I just
clamp a plywood board in my vise, stick the
clamp to that and then stick the workpiece
to the other face of the clamp.

I'm just getting started with this chair project so I've 
got nothing to show yet, but making the jigs will
be interesting.

The chair I'm basing this project on is in the book
"Making Furniture" by Mark Ripley.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Loren said:


> *Vacuum jig for cutting tapered laminate on sliding table saw*
> 
> Here's a jig I made to rip 40" long tapers that go from 3/16" at one end to 1/2" at the other.
> 
> ...


Gad, that's cutting it close! Very inventive jig.


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## kaerlighedsbamsen (Sep 16, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Vacuum jig for cutting tapered laminate on sliding table saw*
> 
> Here's a jig I made to rip 40" long tapers that go from 3/16" at one end to 1/2" at the other.
> 
> ...


Would love to see how the tapered legs you made the jig for turned out!


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Bent laminated prototype chair legs*

Here are 2 pine blanks I glued up for my chair prototype.

I used a vacuum tapering jig to rip the tapered laminates.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Dining chair prototype frame*

I haven't made the back parts or the seat yet. My purpose here is to
work out the jigs and layout rules to cut the critical joints.

The back legs are laminated into a curve.


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## jap (Oct 10, 2012)

Loren said:


> *Dining chair prototype frame*
> 
> I haven't made the back parts or the seat yet. My purpose here is to
> work out the jigs and layout rules to cut the critical joints.
> ...


looks nice


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Loren said:


> *Dining chair prototype frame*
> 
> I haven't made the back parts or the seat yet. My purpose here is to
> work out the jigs and layout rules to cut the critical joints.
> ...


That's looking very interesting.


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## whitebeast88 (May 27, 2012)

Loren said:


> *Dining chair prototype frame*
> 
> I haven't made the back parts or the seat yet. My purpose here is to
> work out the jigs and layout rules to cut the critical joints.
> ...


great chair.can't wait to see it when finished.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Dining chair prototype: making a curved laminated plywood seat*

Here you'll see a picture of the bottom form and the caul to fit on top. The caul is made from door-skin ply and the parts on the edges were glued on and then it was placed upside down on a flat surface and the other (more elaborate) part of the form placed upside down on top. The weight of the heavier part of the form pressed it down and I scribed the angles on the ends of the wood edge parts and then planed those with a #5 until I had even contact of the center of the caul and the edges.

This is hard to explain and won't make sense to you until you want to do this sort of thing and read this post again.

You could skip the fitting of the upper caul if you used a vacuum bag, but since I have a bookbinding press I have another option. Plain old clamps would work as well of course, but lacking a press or vacuum bag clamping to the center of the seat could be a problem. Since it will be upholstered it really is not that crucial, but I'd rather make the jig right the first time and be able to use it on many chairs in the future.

The second picture is the two 1/4" plywood seat laminate layers sandwiched between the form and the caul.

The last picture is of the whole shebang squashed in the press.

I didn't put much glue close to the edges because I didn't want it squeezing out and making a mess and the finished part will be cut down and shaped anyway.


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## Bluepine38 (Dec 14, 2009)

Loren said:


> *Dining chair prototype: making a curved laminated plywood seat*
> 
> Here you'll see a picture of the bottom form and the caul to fit on top. The caul is made from door-skin ply and the parts on the edges were glued on and then it was placed upside down on a flat surface and the other (more elaborate) part of the form placed upside down on top. The weight of the heavier part of the form pressed it down and I scribed the angles on the ends of the wood edge parts and then planed those with a #5 until I had even contact of the center of the caul and the edges.
> 
> ...


Good idea, and I really like that little monster of a press you have there. What type glue do you use? Thank
you for sharing.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Dining chair prototype: making a curved laminated plywood seat*
> 
> Here you'll see a picture of the bottom form and the caul to fit on top. The caul is made from door-skin ply and the parts on the edges were glued on and then it was placed upside down on a flat surface and the other (more elaborate) part of the form placed upside down on top. The weight of the heavier part of the form pressed it down and I scribed the angles on the ends of the wood edge parts and then planed those with a #5 until I had even contact of the center of the caul and the edges.
> 
> ...


I did this one with PVA. There was some springback.

Urea glue would be good for reducing springback I think 
but also might result in the panel being less flexible. 
Considering this is a chair seat, maybe the flexibility
of the PVA laminate is a good thing.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Dining chair prototype pictures*

Here's the chair with all the major joinery done and dry assembled. It's a successful prototype which proves the design is sturdy and the labor required not so silly as to make sets of chairs unmarketable.

I still have to make the curved back splat. I may deviate from my original plan.

This chair frame is meant for upholstery on the seat and back splat. The seat is a curved plywood laminate I described the making of in another blog post.

I made some mistakes but they aren't unfixable and the purpose of making a prototype is to learn anyway.

Legs are laminated construction grade fir. I had to pick through a lot of 2×4s to find some clear sections for the laminated back legs. I described my vacuum laminate tapering jig in another blog post.

I learned a lot from making this chair and it certainly helped demystify dining chair design for me.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Dining chair prototype pictures*
> 
> Here's the chair with all the major joinery done and dry assembled. It's a successful prototype which proves the design is sturdy and the labor required not so silly as to make sets of chairs unmarketable.
> 
> ...


Your series is helping me get over the fear of trying chairs. It's not an easy task.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Dining chair laminated curved backsplat prototype*

The seat had some springback, so I drafted the shape for the backsplat planning for more springback. I got less than I was anticipating but I think the shape that came out is still going to fall within an acceptable range for comfortable sitting.

Making the form took several hours. First I made a 1/4" template of the curve, shaping it carefully with rasps and using my critical eye. Then I used the template to make a 2-part template in 1/4" material - by cutting the shape carefully on the bandsaw the template parts fit very well together.

The curved plywood spines used in the laminating were ganged together and clamped, then I drilled and put screws through. I drew the shape using the templates on the top of the screwed together layers and band sawed the blanks out. Then I drilled and countersunk the 1/4" templates and attached the template one at a time to the blank. I cut out the templates on my overarm router but you could do it on a router table with a bearing-guided pattern bit just as well.

The 1/4" ply I used is just the birch veneer stuff left over from some cabinet backs. It bent beautifully in the forms. All the work of making the forms carefully paid off because the glue line on the backsplat is clean and tight all around.

I considered just making a 1-sided form and doing it in my vacuum bag, but I wasn't confident the vacuum would pull the parts as tightly into the shape a 2-part form would. It was another excuse to use the book press too.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Dining chair prototype with all wood parts dry assembled*

The geometry of all parts is established. I need to cut slots for wedged in the through tenons and after that the frame will be ready for glue-up and the seat and back splat for upholstery.

The back legs are laminated into the curve. The seat is curved too and obviously the back splat with its lumbar curve is laminated. There was a lot of time invested in making forms for gluing up laminations but other than that no one step was terribly tedious.


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## affyx (Jan 1, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Dining chair prototype with all wood parts dry assembled*
> 
> The geometry of all parts is established. I need to cut slots for wedged in the through tenons and after that the frame will be ready for glue-up and the seat and back splat for upholstery.
> 
> The back legs are laminated into the curve. The seat is curved too and obviously the back splat with its lumbar curve is laminated. There was a lot of time invested in making forms for gluing up laminations but other than that no one step was terribly tedious.


really enjoying the series - looks fantastic!


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Drilling accurate holes for a steambending jig table*

Some years ago I cobbled together a 2.25" thick steambending
jig table of floor sheathing and drilled the hole pattern as 
suggested by Michael Fortune in his FWW article about
steambending jigs, using a pair of nested wood sleaves
to plunge a hand drill at 90 degrees through the layers.

That table was destroyed partially by exposure to rain and
it's demise finalized when a tree fell over on it. I was 
occupied with cabinetmaking at the time and not
particularly concerned.

Now I've got the need to bend chair parts and I set out
to build a 4'x-5' x 3" thick bending table with hardwood
ply layers on the outside and floor sheathing inside. 
Actually I just used some scraps and some weather
damaged veneer core cabinet ply for the outside layers.

I laminated the thing up as suggested by Fortune using
screws to hold each layer to the previous layer while
the glue dried, then removing the screws.

The next problem was the drill. Having done it before on
my smaller and thinner early table build I looked around
for the drill jig but could not find it. Not relishing the
idea of pushing a 7/8" spade bit through 540" of holes
I decided to modify my little drill press for the job.

Taking the drill press apart is easy. I have a boneyard 
of metal junk, but not 2.5" pipe so I resolved to
turn the ends of a piece of wood to fit and try to
work it out from there.

As you can see, the wood post benefits from some 
extra support. The whole thing does flex a bit in
drilling, but I bear down on it with my weight and
operate the quill levers, letting up now and then
as the drill cuts the various densities of wood in
the table and the holes are coming out pretty 
well and I think within tolerances.

My drill press has little laser guides which I learned
to tweak today to line up more exactly than they
had before.


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## SASmith (Mar 22, 2010)

Loren said:


> *Drilling accurate holes for a steambending jig table*
> 
> Some years ago I cobbled together a 2.25" thick steambending
> jig table of floor sheathing and drilled the hole pattern as
> ...


Clever solution.
It is similar to a portable drill press used in metal fabrication.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*resaw push block*

I made this push block for resawing on my Hitachi - which
takes a 3" blade with 1.3 tpi, so it's very aggressive when
it cuts.

The pushing cleats are tacked on with a couple of wire nails - 
they are meant to get wrecked and replaced.

The handle is angled up and I can hold onto it in a variety
of ways. The benefit is it lets me concentrate pressure
low down without bumping my knuckles. The handle
is attached with an angled through tenon. I think I 
cut the cheeks on a band saw and the shoulders
by hand.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *resaw push block*
> 
> I made this push block for resawing on my Hitachi - which
> takes a 3" blade with 1.3 tpi, so it's very aggressive when
> ...


looks good and effective


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## Bogeyguy (Sep 26, 2012)

Loren said:


> *resaw push block*
> 
> I made this push block for resawing on my Hitachi - which
> takes a 3" blade with 1.3 tpi, so it's very aggressive when
> ...


Do you have a photo of it in action??


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *resaw push block*
> 
> I made this push block for resawing on my Hitachi - which
> takes a 3" blade with 1.3 tpi, so it's very aggressive when
> ...


Sorry, no. I work alone and seldom use the resaw -
I'd have to bring somebody up special to shoot a 
picture.

You can read a bit about the machine here:
http://lumberjocks.com/Loren/blog/32413


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## whitebeast88 (May 27, 2012)

Loren said:


> *resaw push block*
> 
> I made this push block for resawing on my Hitachi - which
> takes a 3" blade with 1.3 tpi, so it's very aggressive when
> ...


great push block.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *resaw push block*
> 
> I made this push block for resawing on my Hitachi - which
> takes a 3" blade with 1.3 tpi, so it's very aggressive when
> ...


Better than having to remember to get your thumb 
out of the way, eh?

In practice I have the push block laying on the
bandsaw table the the right of the blade. 
The fence is to the left and I feed the work 
by hand until I reach the last foot or so -
then I grab the block as quick as I safely can
and start pushing with it to finish the cut.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Glue-ups with plano glue press*

The Plano is not a minor investment (I got mine used), but it
does stay at the ready and it has a way of flattening boards
that makes otherwise stubborn glue-ups easier.

As you can see, I use bar clamps for added pressure,
just to be thorough. It the ends are not lining up,
I put deep-throat clamps on them. I am gluing
tension into the glue-up. When I was younger I 
thought I would try to tune every board as flat as
possible, but in doing work for clients it's often just 
not feasible with 4/4 stock. I do remove twist if
needed, but bowing and minor cupping I take out
after glue-up.

In the picture you can see my overarm router on the left
and linotype saw/trimmer next to it. I work in a small
shop and have to move stuff around to use the Plano.


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Glue-ups with plano glue press*
> 
> The Plano is not a minor investment (I got mine used), but it
> does stay at the ready and it has a way of flattening boards
> ...


Loren, you gotta a lot of cool gear….. Stationary clamping setups are the way to go. I rigged up a system with Groz bar clamps, not near as nice as the Plano but gets it done.

Should you ever decide to part with the RU50, let me be first in line.

Be Good
Rhett


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Glue-ups with plano glue press*
> 
> The Plano is not a minor investment (I got mine used), but it
> does stay at the ready and it has a way of flattening boards
> ...


You're not the first to inquire about it. I am not sure
the table is square to the spindle in all directions… it
can certainly do some cool things with a modest footprint
but if I had more room I might prefer something 
with more robust support for the table, like an
SCMI.


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## MikeThrockmorton (Nov 4, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Glue-ups with plano glue press*
> 
> The Plano is not a minor investment (I got mine used), but it
> does stay at the ready and it has a way of flattening boards
> ...


" I am gluing tension into the glue-up."

Yeah, this actually is an interesting issue to discuss.

We all do this, it's just part of the process. But it is not appropriate in all circumstances and the learning process to uncover the circumstances is not always a pleasure.

Recently, I glued two boards face to face, which I then would rip in half to make two narrowing beams for a support structure for a table top.

The boards didn't quite line up perfectly due to a slight curve in one. So I simply clamped them face to fact then applied a clamp sideways in the middle to pull the boards in line.

Glue, dry, cure.

Rip in half.

Got a nice little curve in each upon ripping. Well, sure. Duh.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Edgebanding with a hot press*

I edgeband sheet goods with this hot press. It heats the wood
very hot and the special glue reacts and cures fast with the
heat. I use Titebond 2 Extend, which is rated for hot presses
and radio frequency gluing. Other than that, it's a decent 
general purpose white shop glue.

The late Terry Cain described the method of hot press 
edgebanding in this article:
http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/edgebanding2.shtml

I have a big trimmer too, but owing to the nearly full-sheet
size of the piece I'm edgebanding here I'll use a handheld
laminate trimmer rather than mess with pulling out the
700 lb. German trimming machine and clearing work area
for running this stuff through it.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Steam bending furniture parts*

*BEFORE:*

Steam bending rig for bending hardwoods. I've invested a lot of time in the last few months setting this up. Wood can be compressed, a lot, but it fractures easily in stretching. The purpose of a tool like this is to back the bend up with a steel strap to shift the breakage of the lignin fibers in the wood to the inside of the bend. Today the wood is in the steamer. Though I have my hopes up, I fully expect the ******************** to hit the fan as I've never done this form of heavy bending of furniture components - in this case a horseshoe curve with an 8" radius.










*AFTER:*

Well, that went well. Took me about 90 seconds. The wood doesn't tolerate dawdling in this sort of high-temperature bending since it rapidly loses plasticity as it drops from steam-box temperature towards room temperature.


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## schuft (Apr 6, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending furniture parts*
> 
> *BEFORE:*
> 
> ...


That looks like the Veritas strap. I assume you like it? Have you used any other types of strap, and if so how does this one compare?


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending furniture parts*
> 
> *BEFORE:*
> 
> ...


It works well. I'll admit the strap itself is pricey for what it is. 
The base unit is way solid though. I'm not aware of anything 
else on the market that does the same thing.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Steam bent horseshoe chair back rail*

Previous blog post has a couple of pictures of the steambending table and jig setup, plus the bent part inside jig.

Here's the bent part. White oak, kiln dried, 2"wide x 3/4" thick.

Bending was way easier and more successful than I was expecting. The lever I used is about 5' long and I just sort of walked it around pushing with my hip. I used a lot less muscle than expected.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Loren said:


> *Steam bent horseshoe chair back rail*
> 
> Previous blog post has a couple of pictures of the steambending table and jig setup, plus the bent part inside jig.
> 
> ...


Bending some wood for furniture has always been on my list but I haven't got around to it yet. Some of my best memories of building big boats come from the times we were bending oak ribs. It will always fascinate me how the character of the material can change so much from a little steam. We ribbed a 60 foot seiner once with 2 1/4" X 3 1/2" Indiana bending oak ….. needed a come-along for some of the tighter bends but it was so fascinating to see them "bend to our will".
Congrats on your progress.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Steam bent horseshoe chair back rail*
> 
> Previous blog post has a couple of pictures of the steambending table and jig setup, plus the bent part inside jig.
> 
> ...


By far the most tedious part was getting set up for bending in general and for this specific shape. I went overboard and built a 3" thick bending table from Michael Fortune's article that inspired the Veritas system.

I think I'm going to get real into bending. The instant increase in woodworking vocabulary is pretty cool and of course a jig designed for a specific piece creates a shaped part which has other applications in furniture-sized work.


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## BJODay (Jan 29, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Steam bent horseshoe chair back rail*
> 
> Previous blog post has a couple of pictures of the steambending table and jig setup, plus the bent part inside jig.
> 
> ...


Loren,

How many pieces are you going to bend? Is it one and done or are you bending a series of pieces?

If it is a series, are they all shaped the same or do the shapes change depending on the position of the piece? If you make multiple pieces to match, how well do they hold they shape? Do some "snap back" more than others based on grain direction or density?

BJ


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Steam bent horseshoe chair back rail*
> 
> Previous blog post has a couple of pictures of the steambending table and jig setup, plus the bent part inside jig.
> 
> ...


I'm doing a chair prototype, but assuming it will be successful enough. The ends of the horseshoe will be cut off and tenoned, the rear legs let into the "U", and the tenons inserted into mortises in the front legs.

It doesn't spring back much at all, not enough to get in the way of perpendicular assembly in the chair. If steam bent parts are left to "wave" in the air they will move around seasonally but where the ends are fixed as they will in the chair the shape should be as stable as one would expect of any wood construct.

In making multiples, you'd build a drying rack and leave all the parts on it for a few weeks.

In bending a shape like this, the cells on the inside are actually crushed and it makes a sound like wood breaking when it's happening, so the distortion is permanent to a large extent. Michael Fortune discovered a method of rapidly bending steamed stock one way, then the other to break the cells and then the part can be actually twisted 180 degrees or so without a strap and will hold the shape after it dries. Crazy looking effect.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Loren said:


> *Steam bent horseshoe chair back rail*
> 
> Previous blog post has a couple of pictures of the steambending table and jig setup, plus the bent part inside jig.
> 
> ...


Your set-up looks good Loren.I have always wanted to try steam bending, but haven't got around to it yet. Maybe a challenge for the future. Meanwhile it's good to read other's experience to get the theory part. Thanks for sharing.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*another steam bending setup*

Mild curve in 1 1/8" kiln dried white oak. You can see here how I dropped a pin in the table and some plastic installer's shims to push the end tight to the form.


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## nailbanger2 (Oct 17, 2009)

Loren said:


> *another steam bending setup*
> 
> Mild curve in 1 1/8" kiln dried white oak. You can see here how I dropped a pin in the table and some plastic installer's shims to push the end tight to the form.


Nice setup, Loren. What do you use for pins? Looks like bolts with my poor eyes.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *another steam bending setup*
> 
> Mild curve in 1 1/8" kiln dried white oak. You can see here how I dropped a pin in the table and some plastic installer's shims to push the end tight to the form.


1/2" pipe with washers welded to the top. Not an easy thing 
to make. I opened out the washers on a metal lathe and
welded with a wire feed unit.


----------



## nailbanger2 (Oct 17, 2009)

Loren said:


> *another steam bending setup*
> 
> Mild curve in 1 1/8" kiln dried white oak. You can see here how I dropped a pin in the table and some plastic installer's shims to push the end tight to the form.


See, I told you my eyes were poor.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *another steam bending setup*
> 
> Mild curve in 1 1/8" kiln dried white oak. You can see here how I dropped a pin in the table and some plastic installer's shims to push the end tight to the form.


I think 3/4" bolts would work ok. This table was built using Michael
Fortune's original specs for 7/8" holes and pipe pins. The idea is 1/2" 
bolts may be put through the pins to fix them down, but the
concept may be overkill.

Lee Valley has a steam bending pamphlet using a hollow bending
table with 3/4" holes. Mine is a solid 3" thick and quite heavy.


----------



## phtaylor36 (Jun 13, 2011)

Loren said:


> *another steam bending setup*
> 
> Mild curve in 1 1/8" kiln dried white oak. You can see here how I dropped a pin in the table and some plastic installer's shims to push the end tight to the form.


Awesome. I've just about finished my steam bending bench…will have to follow this!


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Loren said:


> *another steam bending setup*
> 
> Mild curve in 1 1/8" kiln dried white oak. You can see here how I dropped a pin in the table and some plastic installer's shims to push the end tight to the form.


Looks good.


----------



## Bluepine38 (Dec 14, 2009)

Loren said:


> *another steam bending setup*
> 
> Mild curve in 1 1/8" kiln dried white oak. You can see here how I dropped a pin in the table and some plastic installer's shims to push the end tight to the form.


Working with 1-1/8 white oak and looking at that table, you are seriously into steam bending. If you are not
careful, you may wind up making a Mike Jarvi bench. Thank you for sharing your journey into steam bending
with us. If you keep going with this, you may just need those 1/2" bolts to hold your forms down with the
heavier wood.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Horizontal router mount, quick and dirty*

I scratched my head over this so you don't have to. Making
it doesn't take much time.

Take a short length of 2×4 and using the router base or a
compass draw the shape on the 2×4. Then band saw out
the half-circle. I had to make a notch for the rack (as in
rack and pinion) on the side of my router.

I ripped the 2×4 piece down to about 2.75" wide to get
rid of roughness on the edges and the rounded corners. 
Since the router is 3.5" diameter you don't need much
more than half that (1.75") to cradle half the router.

Then resaw the piece of 2×4. I used the table saw to
to the resawing because I used a 1/4" bandsaw blade
to saw out the circle and didn't want to fuss with
switching to a ripping blade. Now you have two nearly
identical mounts and if your bandsaw blade is running
square (front to back and side to side) they will be 
accurate enough.

Space the mounts out and measure the gap. Mill up
some blocks to fill the gap. To glue it up you see
how I used wax paper on a piece of MDF? The MDF
is flat, the wax paper prevents the assembly getting
glued to the MDF and I don't have mess around with
dowels or any other alignment devices.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Chair prototype #2 - steam bent dining chair*

A couple of previous blog entries showed the steam bending 
setups I used to bend the rail and legs.

Mortises were cut with a slot mortiser and tenons were done
on a Wirth Machine (Matchmaker).


----------



## Bluepine38 (Dec 14, 2009)

Loren said:


> *Chair prototype #2 - steam bent dining chair*
> 
> A couple of previous blog entries showed the steam bending
> setups I used to bend the rail and legs.
> ...


Looks nice and simple as long as I do not have to do it. Will wait patiently for the completed chair. Thank
you for sharing.


----------



## Ken90712 (Sep 2, 2009)

Loren said:


> *Chair prototype #2 - steam bent dining chair*
> 
> A couple of previous blog entries showed the steam bending
> setups I used to bend the rail and legs.
> ...


Great work looks fun and interesting.


----------



## vikingcape (Jan 3, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Chair prototype #2 - steam bent dining chair*
> 
> A couple of previous blog entries showed the steam bending
> setups I used to bend the rail and legs.
> ...


Really nice chair Loren. Is this going to be part of a set, or a solo?


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Loren said:


> *Chair prototype #2 - steam bent dining chair*
> 
> A couple of previous blog entries showed the steam bending
> setups I used to bend the rail and legs.
> ...


It looks like your wood is all warped Loren! Ok, just kidding. It looks great so far. Chair making is a challenge and It looks like you are up to it. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Chair prototype #2 - steam bent dining chair*
> 
> A couple of previous blog entries showed the steam bending
> setups I used to bend the rail and legs.
> ...


Oh, it's a prototype for me to learn from.

I'm developing a line of chairs.


----------



## BJODay (Jan 29, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Chair prototype #2 - steam bent dining chair*
> 
> A couple of previous blog entries showed the steam bending
> setups I used to bend the rail and legs.
> ...


Loren,

Is that a typesetters case behind the chair?

BJ


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Chair prototype #2 - steam bent dining chair*
> 
> A couple of previous blog entries showed the steam bending
> setups I used to bend the rail and legs.
> ...


I bought a double row one to get the drawers for
shadow boxes and cut down the case. Heresy, 
I know.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Chair prototype #2 - all the tricky stuff is done.*

The curved parts are steam bent.


----------



## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Loren said:


> *Chair prototype #2 - all the tricky stuff is done.*
> 
> The curved parts are steam bent.


Show us the jig.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Chair prototype #2 - all the tricky stuff is done.*
> 
> The curved parts are steam bent.


I made about 4 blog posts about the steam bending.

First one:
http://lumberjocks.com/Loren/blog/37678

Building the table and making the pins was a hassle. Buying
the backstrap system was an expense. Making the first 
couple of forms I overthought them. Now I make a
2.25" plywood blank and bandsaw out the shape,
skipping the template approach.


----------



## BJODay (Jan 29, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Chair prototype #2 - all the tricky stuff is done.*
> 
> The curved parts are steam bent.


Nice looking chair.

BJ


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Chair mockup seat/front leg unit*

In working on this bentwood chair design I didn't want to glue the 
frame and front legs together but I wanted to experiment with 
some different shapes for the back legs.

I glued up a 2" thick chair seat out of 1/4"' ply on the outside with
2×4 scrap inside. I just made one plywood side accurate to the
shape and used that as a pattern after the other layers were
glued up. I used an overarm router but a flush trim bit or pattern
bit would work nearly as well. I notched out the front corners
3/4" on the table saw and made up some 1.25" x 17" pine front
legs and glued those on. Before I did that I marked the position
for the back legs and drilled/sawed out rectangular holes for
clamps.


----------



## WoodDweller (Aug 29, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Chair mockup seat/front leg unit*
> 
> In working on this bentwood chair design I didn't want to glue the
> frame and front legs together but I wanted to experiment with
> ...


Nice template.

I always learn something new when I read your posts. The other day I found out about vertical panel saws, and today I found out about overarm routers. I wonder what other machines I dont know about.

Cheers


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Chair mockup seat/front leg unit*
> 
> In working on this bentwood chair design I didn't want to glue the
> frame and front legs together but I wanted to experiment with
> ...


You can see the router here:
http://lumberjocks.com/Loren/blog/36462

It uses a guide pin in the table the same diameter as the
cutter above. It can be set up with crazy templates
to make all sorts of weird cuts like those used in routing
out electric guitar bodies and it can do some types of
production mortising and drilling, but in general I just
use it for trimming curved parts to a template.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Steam bending recurve - FAIL*

Steam bending setup for chair leg. The part fractured so it was a fail, but I learned from it. Doing a recurve bend where the direction of the bend changes is trickier than a regular, U-shaped bend. I'll try some different approaches but at least I got the spring-back allowance (overbending to compensate) right on the nose with this one.


----------



## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - FAIL*
> 
> Steam bending setup for chair leg. The part fractured so it was a fail, but I learned from it. Doing a recurve bend where the direction of the bend changes is trickier than a regular, U-shaped bend. I'll try some different approaches but at least I got the spring-back allowance (overbending to compensate) right on the nose with this one.


I don't see the break. I am surprised it broke since you are using a steel band and shape support, what do you think happened?


----------



## jap (Oct 10, 2012)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - FAIL*
> 
> Steam bending setup for chair leg. The part fractured so it was a fail, but I learned from it. Doing a recurve bend where the direction of the bend changes is trickier than a regular, U-shaped bend. I'll try some different approaches but at least I got the spring-back allowance (overbending to compensate) right on the nose with this one.











This might help, It is hard for the strap to tension when it is an S curve. http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=42174&cat=1,45866


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - FAIL*
> 
> Steam bending setup for chair leg. The part fractured so it was a fail, but I learned from it. Doing a recurve bend where the direction of the bend changes is trickier than a regular, U-shaped bend. I'll try some different approaches but at least I got the spring-back allowance (overbending to compensate) right on the nose with this one.


I just ordered the change of direction unit… they were backordered until
November when I checked last week so I went ahead and tried it using
a setup similar to what Brian Boggs uses with the strap on one side only.

Boggs has the advantage of a lot more experience and better wood
selection resources I suppose.

What went wrong:

- understeaming maybe. I did it for an hour but it looked a little dry to me
based on previous parts I have bent successfully into other shapes.

- runout maybe… just a bad piece to bend.

- not working fast enough, probably. Since I'd never done this shape
before I didn't know what it would be like and by the time I got
to the bottom part of the bend the wood was cooling off.

- I started with the wood clamped in the strap, but when I applied 
the big C-clamp, it pulled away from one end without my expecting
it too. I hadn't thought to watch for the wood shortening in the
bend as in a usual bend the end stops get tighter as the bend
progresses and the screw has to be loosened a bit as you go to 
complete the bend. In this case it should have been tightened as
I cranked the c-clamp, then probably loosened as the second bend
progressed.


----------



## cathyb (Jul 8, 2009)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - FAIL*
> 
> Steam bending setup for chair leg. The part fractured so it was a fail, but I learned from it. Doing a recurve bend where the direction of the bend changes is trickier than a regular, U-shaped bend. I'll try some different approaches but at least I got the spring-back allowance (overbending to compensate) right on the nose with this one.


You might want to consider bent lamination. I always bend my back rest with that technique. No drama.
Just a thought…..
Best of luck to you.


----------



## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - FAIL*
> 
> Steam bending setup for chair leg. The part fractured so it was a fail, but I learned from it. Doing a recurve bend where the direction of the bend changes is trickier than a regular, U-shaped bend. I'll try some different approaches but at least I got the spring-back allowance (overbending to compensate) right on the nose with this one.


You do great work. I am learning greatly from your work.


----------



## badcrayon (Jun 1, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - FAIL*
> 
> Steam bending setup for chair leg. The part fractured so it was a fail, but I learned from it. Doing a recurve bend where the direction of the bend changes is trickier than a regular, U-shaped bend. I'll try some different approaches but at least I got the spring-back allowance (overbending to compensate) right on the nose with this one.


Was the wood kiln dried or air dried ? I tend to get more breakage with kiln dried on certain woods I personal them in water with fabric softener in it and that helps..
.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - FAIL*
> 
> Steam bending setup for chair leg. The part fractured so it was a fail, but I learned from it. Doing a recurve bend where the direction of the bend changes is trickier than a regular, U-shaped bend. I'll try some different approaches but at least I got the spring-back allowance (overbending to compensate) right on the nose with this one.


Kiln dried. This board has a lot of surface checks so I'm
using it for running tests like this one.

It's not a big deal if I have to end up laminating this style
of leg, but steam bending is much faster so I'd like
to see if can figure out a way to make the shape work.

I live in Los Angeles and it is not sawmill country. Air 
dried woods are not readily available.


----------



## badcrayon (Jun 1, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - FAIL*
> 
> Steam bending setup for chair leg. The part fractured so it was a fail, but I learned from it. Doing a recurve bend where the direction of the bend changes is trickier than a regular, U-shaped bend. I'll try some different approaches but at least I got the spring-back allowance (overbending to compensate) right on the nose with this one.


If you can find air dried lumber for me it tends to work better .


----------



## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - FAIL*
> 
> Steam bending setup for chair leg. The part fractured so it was a fail, but I learned from it. Doing a recurve bend where the direction of the bend changes is trickier than a regular, U-shaped bend. I'll try some different approaches but at least I got the spring-back allowance (overbending to compensate) right on the nose with this one.


Loren, first off, thank you for taking the time to blog all of this, it's very informative - it's very useful too. But may I ask, you are developing a line of chairs… when you have perfected the chairs, what will you do with them?


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - FAIL*
> 
> Steam bending setup for chair leg. The part fractured so it was a fail, but I learned from it. Doing a recurve bend where the direction of the bend changes is trickier than a regular, U-shaped bend. I'll try some different approaches but at least I got the spring-back allowance (overbending to compensate) right on the nose with this one.


Bring them to the market.


----------



## Earlextech (Jan 13, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - FAIL*
> 
> Steam bending setup for chair leg. The part fractured so it was a fail, but I learned from it. Doing a recurve bend where the direction of the bend changes is trickier than a regular, U-shaped bend. I'll try some different approaches but at least I got the spring-back allowance (overbending to compensate) right on the nose with this one.


I double the steam time when I use kiln dried lumber.
Grain runout is usually my biggest problem, finding boards without any is time consuming.


----------



## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - FAIL*
> 
> Steam bending setup for chair leg. The part fractured so it was a fail, but I learned from it. Doing a recurve bend where the direction of the bend changes is trickier than a regular, U-shaped bend. I'll try some different approaches but at least I got the spring-back allowance (overbending to compensate) right on the nose with this one.


By market, do you mean furniture retailers? and if a hit with the buyers would you set up a production line?
I apologise if I missed this earlier.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - FAIL*
> 
> Steam bending setup for chair leg. The part fractured so it was a fail, but I learned from it. Doing a recurve bend where the direction of the bend changes is trickier than a regular, U-shaped bend. I'll try some different approaches but at least I got the spring-back allowance (overbending to compensate) right on the nose with this one.


I'll probably do a bespoke line to start and sell direct to
customers. We'll have to see. I think a lot of the fine
chairs woodworkers are making are too elaborate
to sell in sets except to very wealthy buyers and that's
a problem to me because I want to sell dining chair 
sets to the modestly affluent too.

In any case, if a product is a real winner in terms of
how it works and the price point, then production 
can be scaled up or outsourced.


----------



## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - FAIL*
> 
> Steam bending setup for chair leg. The part fractured so it was a fail, but I learned from it. Doing a recurve bend where the direction of the bend changes is trickier than a regular, U-shaped bend. I'll try some different approaches but at least I got the spring-back allowance (overbending to compensate) right on the nose with this one.


I find that really interesting as I've only ever made things after agreeing a design with a client. I have ideas for a 'signature' range, in which case I'll be making a few cohesive pieces and trying to sell them as a finished items - much as your chairs. I'll be very interested to see how you o on from here.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - FAIL*
> 
> Steam bending setup for chair leg. The part fractured so it was a fail, but I learned from it. Doing a recurve bend where the direction of the bend changes is trickier than a regular, U-shaped bend. I'll try some different approaches but at least I got the spring-back allowance (overbending to compensate) right on the nose with this one.


Custom work tends to run to heavy lifting I have noticed. If
you want to do more furniture than cabinetmaking, 
developing a portfolio of standard designs is a good
idea.

I recommend the book by Mark Ripley on making furniture.
The designs are pro level and he makes a lot of useful
comments about the business end of it.


----------



## SawdustJake (Oct 15, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - FAIL*
> 
> Steam bending setup for chair leg. The part fractured so it was a fail, but I learned from it. Doing a recurve bend where the direction of the bend changes is trickier than a regular, U-shaped bend. I'll try some different approaches but at least I got the spring-back allowance (overbending to compensate) right on the nose with this one.


Hello, if I may, I would like to also recommend a source. Lon Schleining's book "Wood Bending Made Simple", by Taunton Press. He covers both laminate and steam bent practices. The book includes a nice DVD as well.
When you master the reverse bend please let me know. I try to make steam bent wood sculptures and am constantly chasing "undulation" and "curves". I bet the two cardinal sins we comment are not insisting on straight grain and not heating to 215 degrees.

Good luck, Jake
(sawdustbyjake.com)


----------



## SawdustJake (Oct 15, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - FAIL*
> 
> Steam bending setup for chair leg. The part fractured so it was a fail, but I learned from it. Doing a recurve bend where the direction of the bend changes is trickier than a regular, U-shaped bend. I'll try some different approaches but at least I got the spring-back allowance (overbending to compensate) right on the nose with this one.


I found the link to my attempts to steam bend.
http://www.wwgoa.com/creative-steam-bending/


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*chair spindle repair without disassembly*

Chairs like this have a weak spot where they break. I've done this
sort of repair a couple of times, excavating a mortise using a plunge
router and filling it with a loose tenon and carving the tenon down
to fit. I think I glued the broken ends together before routing.


----------



## DaddyZ (Jan 28, 2010)

Loren said:


> *chair spindle repair without disassembly*
> 
> Chairs like this have a weak spot where they break. I've done this
> sort of repair a couple of times, excavating a mortise using a plunge
> ...


Nice looking fix there, now to dye/color the plug to match the chair.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Steam bending recurve - Success*

I failed with my first attempt at a recurve bend. http://lumberjocks.com/Loren/blog/38142
I was prepared for that failure since I used a strap on only
one side. This time I've added another backing strap and
a fixture to make the transition.

While the backing strap wasn't directly "backing-up" the
wood (which helps with grain blowout) nearest the
transition, the part came out cleanly bent with neither
expansion failure nor compression crumpling.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - Success*
> 
> I failed with my first attempt at a recurve bend. http://lumberjocks.com/Loren/blog/38142
> I was prepared for that failure since I used a strap on only
> ...


Congrats on the success! Is the bend as aggressive as last time?


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - Success*
> 
> I failed with my first attempt at a recurve bend. http://lumberjocks.com/Loren/blog/38142
> I was prepared for that failure since I used a strap on only
> ...


It still goes from point a to point b at the end, but the
change of direction unit demanded a gentler geometry
to the curves, which is probably for the best here.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - Success*
> 
> I failed with my first attempt at a recurve bend. http://lumberjocks.com/Loren/blog/38142
> I was prepared for that failure since I used a strap on only
> ...


Thanks, I thought it might, but the angles of the pics are different and it is hard to tell. Glad you were successful.


----------



## BJODay (Jan 29, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - Success*
> 
> I failed with my first attempt at a recurve bend. http://lumberjocks.com/Loren/blog/38142
> I was prepared for that failure since I used a strap on only
> ...


Loren,

Is this just a test or is this a part for a project?

BJ


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending recurve - Success*
> 
> I failed with my first attempt at a recurve bend. http://lumberjocks.com/Loren/blog/38142
> I was prepared for that failure since I used a strap on only
> ...


It's for a piece.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Steam bent dining chair comfort prototype*

54 days into the prototyping process, this is the latest iteration of my ergonomic bentwood dining chair design. The process has shown the chair is buildable without a lot of bending failure issues and the back design is very comfortable, at least in terms of what one can expect of a solid wood dining chair.


----------



## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Steam bent dining chair comfort prototype*
> 
> 54 days into the prototyping process, this is the latest iteration of my ergonomic bentwood dining chair design. The process has shown the chair is buildable without a lot of bending failure issues and the back design is very comfortable, at least in terms of what one can expect of a solid wood dining chair.


Nice form and looks comfortable.

Will you attach some cross braces on the legs?


----------



## BJODay (Jan 29, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Steam bent dining chair comfort prototype*
> 
> 54 days into the prototyping process, this is the latest iteration of my ergonomic bentwood dining chair design. The process has shown the chair is buildable without a lot of bending failure issues and the back design is very comfortable, at least in terms of what one can expect of a solid wood dining chair.


Loren,

How do you decide on seat height and width? 
This looks like small scale furniture. I am only 5'6". I hate giant chairs. I like the looks of this.

BJ


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Steam bent dining chair comfort prototype*
> 
> 54 days into the prototyping process, this is the latest iteration of my ergonomic bentwood dining chair design. The process has shown the chair is buildable without a lot of bending failure issues and the back design is very comfortable, at least in terms of what one can expect of a solid wood dining chair.


This is just a mockup with a hard seat I am using to experiment
with the back leg design. It won't have additional bracing but the
top rails will be wider in the final version.

The seat is 17" from the floor. That's pretty standard. It's probably
about 14" across and front to back.


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen (Sep 16, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Steam bent dining chair comfort prototype*
> 
> 54 days into the prototyping process, this is the latest iteration of my ergonomic bentwood dining chair design. The process has shown the chair is buildable without a lot of bending failure issues and the back design is very comfortable, at least in terms of what one can expect of a solid wood dining chair.


Sertainly looks promising. Looking forward to see the real thing!


----------



## Bluepine38 (Dec 14, 2009)

Loren said:


> *Steam bent dining chair comfort prototype*
> 
> 54 days into the prototyping process, this is the latest iteration of my ergonomic bentwood dining chair design. The process has shown the chair is buildable without a lot of bending failure issues and the back design is very comfortable, at least in terms of what one can expect of a solid wood dining chair.


Now I see why you needed that reversing curve steam bend you made, interesting how one project can
make us learn something new.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Dining chair prototype in walnut.*

A back splat isn't needed but if you slump into back you notice it's
not there and that's a little unsettling, so I think I'll add one. I was
going to do spindles and a lower rail but decided on testing the
open frame for comfort not to do that this time. I have a form
for laminating a back splat I used on another chair, and I think 
I might veneer the face with something fancy. I don't have
appropriate veneer on hand so I'll have to go find some or maybe
cut some curly ash I found in a pile of "shorts" nearly 20 years
ago when I was just starting out.


----------



## theoldfart (Sep 9, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Dining chair prototype in walnut.*
> 
> A back splat isn't needed but if you slump into back you notice it's
> not there and that's a little unsettling, so I think I'll add one. I was
> ...


Loren, can you show a pic of the back splat form. I'm doing two Stickley children's chairs and the back splat is the only thing left to do. I've not steam bent before, only laminates.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Dining chair prototype in walnut.*
> 
> A back splat isn't needed but if you slump into back you notice it's
> not there and that's a little unsettling, so I think I'll add one. I was
> ...


Here's the one I made. I made matching patterns out of
1/4" masonite I think and pattern routed the ribs which I 
glued and screwed to the MDF bases top and bottom. I
used a press but clamps would work fine too and you probably
don't have to be as exact making the form faces
equidistant with bar clamps.

http://lumberjocks.com/Loren/blog/34548


----------



## theoldfart (Sep 9, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Dining chair prototype in walnut.*
> 
> A back splat isn't needed but if you slump into back you notice it's
> not there and that's a little unsettling, so I think I'll add one. I was
> ...


Loren, thank you.


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Loren said:


> *Dining chair prototype in walnut.*
> 
> A back splat isn't needed but if you slump into back you notice it's
> not there and that's a little unsettling, so I think I'll add one. I was
> ...


Very graceful back design. I can see the need for another support. I have some rather nice folding chairs with a similar back with no middle support and it isn't too good to sit in.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Dining chair steam bent back splats*

"Composing" back splats on my chair design. Rather than cut them out of a thick board or laminating layers to make the subtle recurve, I cut a piece in half so the two are bookmatched. Then I used a technique I read about but never tried. I steamed the parts and then bent them one way, then the other way, breaking the lignin fibers on both faces. The result is the wood becomes plastic enough to be bent into the double curve by hand. I clamp them to the chair itself so they dry in the shape I want.


----------



## theoldfart (Sep 9, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Dining chair steam bent back splats*
> 
> "Composing" back splats on my chair design. Rather than cut them out of a thick board or laminating layers to make the subtle recurve, I cut a piece in half so the two are bookmatched. Then I used a technique I read about but never tried. I steamed the parts and then bent them one way, then the other way, breaking the lignin fibers on both faces. The result is the wood becomes plastic enough to be bent into the double curve by hand. I clamp them to the chair itself so they dry in the shape I want.


Will they both dry with same curve?


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Dining chair steam bent back splats*
> 
> "Composing" back splats on my chair design. Rather than cut them out of a thick board or laminating layers to make the subtle recurve, I cut a piece in half so the two are bookmatched. Then I used a technique I read about but never tried. I steamed the parts and then bent them one way, then the other way, breaking the lignin fibers on both faces. The result is the wood becomes plastic enough to be bent into the double curve by hand. I clamp them to the chair itself so they dry in the shape I want.


Dunno. Looks promising. I can make a drying form later
if it seems like it will make the parts come out more 
consistent.

For that matter, the parts can be resteamed and shaped
without putting them back in the bending strap.


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Loren said:


> *Dining chair steam bent back splats*
> 
> "Composing" back splats on my chair design. Rather than cut them out of a thick board or laminating layers to make the subtle recurve, I cut a piece in half so the two are bookmatched. Then I used a technique I read about but never tried. I steamed the parts and then bent them one way, then the other way, breaking the lignin fibers on both faces. The result is the wood becomes plastic enough to be bent into the double curve by hand. I clamp them to the chair itself so they dry in the shape I want.


Looks good Loren. Your foray into chair building and steam bending is working out very well.


----------



## BJODay (Jan 29, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Dining chair steam bent back splats*
> 
> "Composing" back splats on my chair design. Rather than cut them out of a thick board or laminating layers to make the subtle recurve, I cut a piece in half so the two are bookmatched. Then I used a technique I read about but never tried. I steamed the parts and then bent them one way, then the other way, breaking the lignin fibers on both faces. The result is the wood becomes plastic enough to be bent into the double curve by hand. I clamp them to the chair itself so they dry in the shape I want.


Looks good.

BJ


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Dining chair design - trying out front legs for the armchair*

Before committing to walnut, I made a pair of legs from scrap alder to 
figure out how to get a sufficient spread between the arms. The
seat frame is about 2.5" wider than the side chair and required
another bending form to steam bend the back rail.


----------



## theoldfart (Sep 9, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Dining chair design - trying out front legs for the armchair*
> 
> Before committing to walnut, I made a pair of legs from scrap alder to
> figure out how to get a sufficient spread between the arms. The
> ...


Loren, I'm really liking the design on both sizes. Looking forward to the completed chair. BTW my first attempt at steam bending was surprisingly a complete success, thanks for the input.


----------



## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Dining chair design - trying out front legs for the armchair*
> 
> Before committing to walnut, I made a pair of legs from scrap alder to
> figure out how to get a sufficient spread between the arms. The
> ...


Your work is exceptionally clean on these. I haven't tackled chairs yet. It's something that I need to do soon though.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Armchair armrest design*

Finalizing the geometry of the armrests. This was real tricky to figure out which way to go and I spent a lot of time thinking about how to approach it aesthetically. I didn't think an arm that was a slab sitting on top of the front leg would agree with the rest of the chair at all. Finally I had to give up on the arm being very wide at the front. The slight bulging upwards of the arm is an optical illusion. They are on a flat plane but curved outwards.

The arms are alder. I stained them quick with some aniline dye I had on hand to fool my eye. They came out looking amazingly very similar to the walnut… though absent the purple and other highlights that make real walnut so interesting.


----------



## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Loren said:


> *Armchair armrest design*
> 
> Finalizing the geometry of the armrests. This was real tricky to figure out which way to go and I spent a lot of time thinking about how to approach it aesthetically. I didn't think an arm that was a slab sitting on top of the front leg would agree with the rest of the chair at all. Finally I had to give up on the arm being very wide at the front. The slight bulging upwards of the arm is an optical illusion. They are on a flat plane but curved outwards.
> 
> The arms are alder. I stained them quick with some aniline dye I had on hand to fool my eye. They came out looking amazingly very similar to the walnut… though absent the purple and other highlights that make real walnut so interesting.


The best chairs throughout history always have the arms follow the contour of the seat.


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## Handtooler (Jul 24, 2012)

Loren said:


> *Armchair armrest design*
> 
> Finalizing the geometry of the armrests. This was real tricky to figure out which way to go and I spent a lot of time thinking about how to approach it aesthetically. I didn't think an arm that was a slab sitting on top of the front leg would agree with the rest of the chair at all. Finally I had to give up on the arm being very wide at the front. The slight bulging upwards of the arm is an optical illusion. They are on a flat plane but curved outwards.
> 
> The arms are alder. I stained them quick with some aniline dye I had on hand to fool my eye. They came out looking amazingly very similar to the walnut… though absent the purple and other highlights that make real walnut so interesting.


*Sure looks comfortable.* I can't really see or determine the contour of the back slats, biu they appear curved properly to support the lumbar. As our family is short of stature we perfer shallow seats a bit lower than most production chairs. That appears GREAT! Did you hand form the seat with the use of an adz? Thanks for sharing.


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## theoldfart (Sep 9, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Armchair armrest design*
> 
> Finalizing the geometry of the armrests. This was real tricky to figure out which way to go and I spent a lot of time thinking about how to approach it aesthetically. I didn't think an arm that was a slab sitting on top of the front leg would agree with the rest of the chair at all. Finally I had to give up on the arm being very wide at the front. The slight bulging upwards of the arm is an optical illusion. They are on a flat plane but curved outwards.
> 
> The arms are alder. I stained them quick with some aniline dye I had on hand to fool my eye. They came out looking amazingly very similar to the walnut… though absent the purple and other highlights that make real walnut so interesting.


Loren, the design seems perfect. I have one quibble/question. You have exposed joinery on the arm and none elsewhere, is there a concern that the eye will be drawn to the joint rather than the chair? Can't wait to see the completed product.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Armchair armrest design*
> 
> Finalizing the geometry of the armrests. This was real tricky to figure out which way to go and I spent a lot of time thinking about how to approach it aesthetically. I didn't think an arm that was a slab sitting on top of the front leg would agree with the rest of the chair at all. Finally I had to give up on the arm being very wide at the front. The slight bulging upwards of the arm is an optical illusion. They are on a flat plane but curved outwards.
> 
> The arms are alder. I stained them quick with some aniline dye I had on hand to fool my eye. They came out looking amazingly very similar to the walnut… though absent the purple and other highlights that make real walnut so interesting.


I was going to use blind tenon on the arm but then I was looking 
at short grain on the front… I even made a sample arm with 
a through tenon as I considered using wedged though tenons
as a detail. I like the way a broad end on the arm feels under
my fingers but I could not figure out a straightforward way
to have that on this chair without introducing a level of
what I'll call dissonance to the design.

I've thought about the exposed joint. Since the arm is right
out parallel with the front leg, extending it out further would
be sort of a sin against space. It can be done and certainly
has been, but if you look you'll see that often the front 
legs are set back on the sides, using a slab seat, so the 
extended arm ends aren't protruding beyond the front of
the seat.

To my thinking at this time the exposed saddle joint is
the most honest way to deal with it. I may be wrong - 
time will tell and I'm sure I will build variants in the future
that approach the arm differently.

The seat is a slip-seat dropped into a rabbet. What you
see here is a water-stained piece of 1/4" hardboard
salvaged from the trash. I haven't yet dealt with
making the slip seat proper from foam and 6mm 
veneer-core plywood with slots cut in it for flexibility.

The arms are sliver-moon shaped, then carved out on the
inside top and and the outside bottom so they appear
thinner at some angles. There's an aspect to fairing 
the curves where I'm looking at the curves from every
common angle and trying to carve away any bumps
or awkwardness.

This isn't a very good picture. Look at Hans Wegner chair
arms to get an idea of the kind of shaping I'm doing here.


----------



## Bluepine38 (Dec 14, 2009)

Loren said:


> *Armchair armrest design*
> 
> Finalizing the geometry of the armrests. This was real tricky to figure out which way to go and I spent a lot of time thinking about how to approach it aesthetically. I didn't think an arm that was a slab sitting on top of the front leg would agree with the rest of the chair at all. Finally I had to give up on the arm being very wide at the front. The slight bulging upwards of the arm is an optical illusion. They are on a flat plane but curved outwards.
> 
> The arms are alder. I stained them quick with some aniline dye I had on hand to fool my eye. They came out looking amazingly very similar to the walnut… though absent the purple and other highlights that make real walnut so interesting.


Your prototype is starting to look like a very comfortable and good looking chair. Thank you for sharing
the journey with us. Now we just have to wait and see what the finish will be.


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Loren said:


> *Armchair armrest design*
> 
> Finalizing the geometry of the armrests. This was real tricky to figure out which way to go and I spent a lot of time thinking about how to approach it aesthetically. I didn't think an arm that was a slab sitting on top of the front leg would agree with the rest of the chair at all. Finally I had to give up on the arm being very wide at the front. The slight bulging upwards of the arm is an optical illusion. They are on a flat plane but curved outwards.
> 
> The arms are alder. I stained them quick with some aniline dye I had on hand to fool my eye. They came out looking amazingly very similar to the walnut… though absent the purple and other highlights that make real walnut so interesting.


A very nice looking chair Loren. I love the shape of the arms, they are really the right finishing touch to this design.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Fitted tool tray made with the overarm router*

There's not much I've seen written about how to operate an
overarm router, so I try to make an excuse now and then
to learn more about use of the machine from doing 
non-critical projects on it.

My layout tools had been rattling about in a drawer. I went
though them and decided that these 5 are ones I use
most and could fit together in a little tray I could put in
the tool well at the back of my bench. I also have this
theory that having a nice little fitted tray back there will 
encourage me not to use the tool well as a bin for
odds and ends as often happens.

I cut the template out of hardboard on a scroll saw and 
refined it with files. With a pin router the template goes
under the work and the router bit plunges in from the
top. Each cut-out in the finished tray is a different depth.


----------



## theoldfart (Sep 9, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Fitted tool tray made with the overarm router*
> 
> There's not much I've seen written about how to operate an
> overarm router, so I try to make an excuse now and then
> ...


Loren, what does an overarm router look like? I don't think I've ever seen one.


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen (Sep 16, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Fitted tool tray made with the overarm router*
> 
> There's not much I've seen written about how to operate an
> overarm router, so I try to make an excuse now and then
> ...


Year i am a bit lost here as well. Would love to see the machine in action!


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Fitted tool tray made with the overarm router*
> 
> There's not much I've seen written about how to operate an
> overarm router, so I try to make an excuse now and then
> ...







The machine is called an overhead router, pin router or overarm router.

Before CNC machines they were a production workhorse
in factories for cutting out templated parts.

You can make your own version of an "inverted pin router" 
buy mounting an arm on a router table. However the 
pneumatic or foot-pedal plunging action of an 
industrial pin router makes for faster work.


----------



## theoldfart (Sep 9, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Fitted tool tray made with the overarm router*
> 
> There's not much I've seen written about how to operate an
> overarm router, so I try to make an excuse now and then
> ...


Thanks, so the material moves?


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Fitted tool tray made with the overarm router*
> 
> There's not much I've seen written about how to operate an
> overarm router, so I try to make an excuse now and then
> ...


Yes. The pin is often used just like a bearing on the end
of a flush trim router bit. The difference is the cuts can
be done in steps so thicker material can be cut out in
multiple passes. And of course the bit can plunge and
make flat-bottom mortises like I did here.


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen (Sep 16, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Fitted tool tray made with the overarm router*
> 
> There's not much I've seen written about how to operate an
> overarm router, so I try to make an excuse now and then
> ...


Ahh. Much clearer now. Neat machine! I could see a machne likt that be realy effficient for repeated cuts. Perhaps most for rounded stuff…


----------



## rhett (May 11, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Fitted tool tray made with the overarm router*
> 
> There's not much I've seen written about how to operate an
> overarm router, so I try to make an excuse now and then
> ...


All my planes are made on an overarm.










Here is a pic of my Delta RU-50, next to one I built from 80/20. It weighs about 600lbs more than the little aluminum guy. Had to replace all the pneumatics but thats to be expected on older machines.

Much can be done with an overarm router, given an attentive and inventive operator.

They were replaced by CNC's as Loren said, though you would be hard pressed to find a CNC with a spindle or motor as robust.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Fitted tool tray made with the overarm router*
> 
> There's not much I've seen written about how to operate an
> overarm router, so I try to make an excuse now and then
> ...












http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=43038&cat=1,43000

One can be had through Lee Valley at an equitable price of 169.00 plus shipping etc.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Steam bending a wide board*

My heaviest steam bend yet… an oak board about 7" wide and 1.25" thick
and tapered to 7/8" at the other. It took several days of setup before I 
hit on attaching the form to a 1000lb boat anchor of a vintage case clamp. 
I tried doing it on the work bench with the form on its back but that
was hopeless due to the awkwardness and weight of the bending
apparatus that has to be loaded with a steamed part and quickly clamped
to the form.

I'll need to improve this and maybe use a come-along or block-and-tackle 
to pull it around next time but this at least shows I can get the shape
I want. A 6 foot pipe used as a lever only worked for about 1/3d of 
the bend before I picked up the clamps and desperately screwed them 
tight, alternating, to close the bend before the wood cooled too much.

I used a polycarbonate backing strip in between the steel bending straps 
and the wood to prevent possible grain lift-out and I think a happy 
consequence was it helped insulate the wood a bit, enough perhaps 
to lengthen the working time in order to close the bend with the clamps.










There was a good deal of springback but the shape is still adequately
curved for what I want to do with it. The sharper the bend the
less the wood springs back because a sharp bend permanently
crushes more cells on the inside of the bend.


----------



## theoldfart (Sep 9, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending a wide board*
> 
> My heaviest steam bend yet… an oak board about 7" wide and 1.25" thick
> and tapered to 7/8" at the other. It took several days of setup before I
> ...


Wow, that is a big honker! 
"vintage case clamp" I've never heard of these. Hydraulic contraption?


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending a wide board*
> 
> My heaviest steam bend yet… an oak board about 7" wide and 1.25" thick
> and tapered to 7/8" at the other. It took several days of setup before I
> ...


It's similar to this one except fitted with an air cylinder. 
http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=5226


----------



## Buckethead (Apr 14, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending a wide board*
> 
> My heaviest steam bend yet… an oak board about 7" wide and 1.25" thick
> and tapered to 7/8" at the other. It took several days of setup before I
> ...


So you're set up to do solid 3" stringers for spiral staircases?


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending a wide board*
> 
> My heaviest steam bend yet… an oak board about 7" wide and 1.25" thick
> and tapered to 7/8" at the other. It took several days of setup before I
> ...


This is for furniture. I guess I could figure out how to bend
a 3" thick curved stair stringer. That's a pretty thick part
and would require an awful lot of pressure and robustness
in the bending jig.


----------



## theoldfart (Sep 9, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending a wide board*
> 
> My heaviest steam bend yet… an oak board about 7" wide and 1.25" thick
> and tapered to 7/8" at the other. It took several days of setup before I
> ...


Most assuredly not your every day hobbyists tool!


----------



## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending a wide board*
> 
> My heaviest steam bend yet… an oak board about 7" wide and 1.25" thick
> and tapered to 7/8" at the other. It took several days of setup before I
> ...


Wedges will do it very quickly and easily with all the power you can generate with a big hammer. Just make some reinforced frames that fit over the ends and run the wedges inside.
If you use matched wedges and advance them alternately it works best.

This doesn't look like that hard a bend. How hot was your steam? How long? What wood?

Fun to watch. Steam bending is an interesting art.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending a wide board*
> 
> My heaviest steam bend yet… an oak board about 7" wide and 1.25" thick
> and tapered to 7/8" at the other. It took several days of setup before I
> ...


Oh it was hot enough… about an hour and a half.

I was reading today and I think this is a bend that can be done
without a strap too. I can bring in the other cheek of the clamp
to push wedges against. That's a good idea. I could try the
pneumatic approach but 1. it might not be enough pressure
to make the bend and 2. it might go too fast and break the
part.


----------



## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending a wide board*
> 
> My heaviest steam bend yet… an oak board about 7" wide and 1.25" thick
> and tapered to 7/8" at the other. It took several days of setup before I
> ...


Definitely shouldn't need a strap, in fact unless the stock is really thin a strap is not often required. They basically stop edge splintering and that won't happen if you ease the edges with a small chamfer.
I used to use steam in the 230 degree range and that should do this one up in 20 min to half an hour. The trick is you need a pressurized steam source. It's not hard to make one but of course all you can get without it is 212 degrees.

Here's one I posted a while back.


----------



## changeoffocus (Dec 21, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending a wide board*
> 
> My heaviest steam bend yet… an oak board about 7" wide and 1.25" thick
> and tapered to 7/8" at the other. It took several days of setup before I
> ...


The steam bending is an interesting topic. 
You probably have seen a chart called the "Thermodynamic Properties of Steam" I know it is available on Eng. Tool Box site. 
It shows in detail the properties of steam at various temperatures and pressures. The white steam is saturated with water and as it heats up and the pressure does not rise it becomes superheated. 
In what I've observed with many steam box articles is they do not return the condensate to the steam generator. 
If that is done by use of a trap it easier to control the conditions. 
Hope this is of value your process.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending a wide board*
> 
> My heaviest steam bend yet… an oak board about 7" wide and 1.25" thick
> and tapered to 7/8" at the other. It took several days of setup before I
> ...


Usually the condensate water gets loaded with oils from the box
and the wood from what I've seen. I think it would make a
mess of the apparatus.

I did not steam bending of barrel staves some years ago using
an electric hot pot under the barrel with a trash can on top to
keep the heat in. It did work, but the oils from the oak or
ash I used dripped down into the hot pot and made it ugly.


----------



## changeoffocus (Dec 21, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending a wide board*
> 
> My heaviest steam bend yet… an oak board about 7" wide and 1.25" thick
> and tapered to 7/8" at the other. It took several days of setup before I
> ...


Thanks Loren that would be messy. I think I saw in one of your posts you used a valve on the outlet to control the back pressure.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Steam bending a leg off the corner.*

Adaptation of the Veritas strap to bending a leg on the corner. The form has a v-groove and the wood end stop is chiseled out to make a 1/4" deep cradle to position the leg.


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending a leg off the corner.*
> 
> Adaptation of the Veritas strap to bending a leg on the corner. The form has a v-groove and the wood end stop is chiseled out to make a 1/4" deep cradle to position the leg.


Looks real good Loren. Putting curves into furniture raises it to whole new level and it seems a lot more economical to bend thinner pieces than to cut curves out of wider ones.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Steam bending a leg off the corner.*
> 
> Adaptation of the Veritas strap to bending a leg on the corner. The form has a v-groove and the wood end stop is chiseled out to make a 1/4" deep cradle to position the leg.


Yeah. I can surface and taper the leg with a jointer and
put the curve in after, which eliminates much of the time
of fairing a sawn curve.

Once set up (which is I admit a hassle for every new shape)
steam bending is an efficient way to save money on wood
and also time in processing sawn or laminated curves.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*"Composing" a bent wood dining chair*

"Composing" a bent wood dining chair. The back board is filthy from tannins in the wood reacting to the steam used to bend it. It can be scraped off. The front legs are bent slightly off the corner so there's a little flair both outwards and forward at the bottom. The chair is too tall and deep for a normal person right now because the front legs need to be cut down a bit (I leave parts overlong for bending because sometimes a crack or other distortion forms the ends have to be cut off to remove it) and the 2×6 establishing the distance between the front and back is just a random scrap piece.


----------



## theoldfart (Sep 9, 2011)

Loren said:


> *"Composing" a bent wood dining chair*
> 
> "Composing" a bent wood dining chair. The back board is filthy from tannins in the wood reacting to the steam used to bend it. It can be scraped off. The front legs are bent slightly off the corner so there's a little flair both outwards and forward at the bottom. The chair is too tall and deep for a normal person right now because the front legs need to be cut down a bit (I leave parts overlong for bending because sometimes a crack or other distortion forms the ends have to be cut off to remove it) and the 2×6 establishing the distance between the front and back is just a random scrap piece.


Loren, the outline resembles a Rohlfs chair. It's on my bucket list for next year. The leg flair is nice and subtle. Looking forward to your next steps.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *"Composing" a bent wood dining chair*
> 
> "Composing" a bent wood dining chair. The back board is filthy from tannins in the wood reacting to the steam used to bend it. It can be scraped off. The front legs are bent slightly off the corner so there's a little flair both outwards and forward at the bottom. The chair is too tall and deep for a normal person right now because the front legs need to be cut down a bit (I leave parts overlong for bending because sometimes a crack or other distortion forms the ends have to be cut off to remove it) and the 2×6 establishing the distance between the front and back is just a random scrap piece.


I was looking at some sort of Asian-ish chairs… really
just kind of modernist mash-ups that some people like,
and I started thinking about bending a one piece back
and making a chair that way. Not really my preferred
style to have a narrow back like this, but I want to 
expand my portfolio and this sort of thing is useful
to me in that context.

I'm thinking about doing some chip carving or something
like that on the back to make it more arts and crafts-y.


----------



## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Loren said:


> *"Composing" a bent wood dining chair*
> 
> "Composing" a bent wood dining chair. The back board is filthy from tannins in the wood reacting to the steam used to bend it. It can be scraped off. The front legs are bent slightly off the corner so there's a little flair both outwards and forward at the bottom. The chair is too tall and deep for a normal person right now because the front legs need to be cut down a bit (I leave parts overlong for bending because sometimes a crack or other distortion forms the ends have to be cut off to remove it) and the 2×6 establishing the distance between the front and back is just a random scrap piece.


I like it Loren, nice.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *"Composing" a bent wood dining chair*
> 
> "Composing" a bent wood dining chair. The back board is filthy from tannins in the wood reacting to the steam used to bend it. It can be scraped off. The front legs are bent slightly off the corner so there's a little flair both outwards and forward at the bottom. The chair is too tall and deep for a normal person right now because the front legs need to be cut down a bit (I leave parts overlong for bending because sometimes a crack or other distortion forms the ends have to be cut off to remove it) and the 2×6 establishing the distance between the front and back is just a random scrap piece.


Thanks… I like it too even though hard narrow-backed
chairs are not my thing. I'm looking at vocabulary
here and the steam bending opens it up for me.


----------



## Kentuk55 (Sep 21, 2010)

Loren said:


> *"Composing" a bent wood dining chair*
> 
> "Composing" a bent wood dining chair. The back board is filthy from tannins in the wood reacting to the steam used to bend it. It can be scraped off. The front legs are bent slightly off the corner so there's a little flair both outwards and forward at the bottom. The chair is too tall and deep for a normal person right now because the front legs need to be cut down a bit (I leave parts overlong for bending because sometimes a crack or other distortion forms the ends have to be cut off to remove it) and the 2×6 establishing the distance between the front and back is just a random scrap piece.


Wow Lauren! I know this is gonna be sooo nice.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Through tenons for a dining chair*

Chair dry assembled. Through tenons (instead of blind tenons) are kind of a hassle but they are the right choice for this chair for structural reasons. On the legs they are not needed but I figured why not go all and do them anyway. The seat is from another chair prototype and I think not the right shape for this chair. I'll make another one tapered in at the back and see how that works.


----------



## vikingcape (Jan 3, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Through tenons for a dining chair*
> 
> Chair dry assembled. Through tenons (instead of blind tenons) are kind of a hassle but they are the right choice for this chair for structural reasons. On the legs they are not needed but I figured why not go all and do them anyway. The seat is from another chair prototype and I think not the right shape for this chair. I'll make another one tapered in at the back and see how that works.


Those through tenons are nice Loren. How did you cut them out? And, how did you not damage them when you put them in? I like the gentle curve on the back of the chair also.

Looking good so far


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Through tenons for a dining chair*
> 
> Chair dry assembled. Through tenons (instead of blind tenons) are kind of a hassle but they are the right choice for this chair for structural reasons. On the legs they are not needed but I figured why not go all and do them anyway. The seat is from another chair prototype and I think not the right shape for this chair. I'll make another one tapered in at the back and see how that works.


The mortises are trickier to cut than the tenons. I
used a hollow chisel mortiser. I am still figuring
that machine out. You have to flip the work 
and cut from both sides. The tenons I just cut
overlong so that's why they are sticking out. I'll
cut them off flush after I glue.

I cut the tenons on the table saw for the ones on 
the legs and in the back, the band saw for the
ones piercing the front rail. In this case I cut 
them as "speed tenons" on the table saw.

I put wedges in the tenons when I glue up. I think
I want to ebonize this chair to hide some flaws in
the material and I'm considering how to have the
little wedges not ebonized. I think what I'm gonna
do is use temporary wedges and glue it up with the
tenons wedged out, remove the wedges, cut 
the tenons off, sand and stain, then put new little
pale wedges in for contrast.


----------



## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Through tenons for a dining chair*
> 
> Chair dry assembled. Through tenons (instead of blind tenons) are kind of a hassle but they are the right choice for this chair for structural reasons. On the legs they are not needed but I figured why not go all and do them anyway. The seat is from another chair prototype and I think not the right shape for this chair. I'll make another one tapered in at the back and see how that works.


Mortises are something that I need to spend a lot more time learning. Yours are looking great.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Through tenons for a dining chair*
> 
> Chair dry assembled. Through tenons (instead of blind tenons) are kind of a hassle but they are the right choice for this chair for structural reasons. On the legs they are not needed but I figured why not go all and do them anyway. The seat is from another chair prototype and I think not the right shape for this chair. I'll make another one tapered in at the back and see how that works.


I taper the mortises so they open out at the wedge end. I
use an iwasaki file. The wedging action compresses the wood
enough at the ends that when cut off the tenon tends
to have a pretty clean look. Try a few for practice and
you'll see. It looks cool.


----------



## vikingcape (Jan 3, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Through tenons for a dining chair*
> 
> Chair dry assembled. Through tenons (instead of blind tenons) are kind of a hassle but they are the right choice for this chair for structural reasons. On the legs they are not needed but I figured why not go all and do them anyway. The seat is from another chair prototype and I think not the right shape for this chair. I'll make another one tapered in at the back and see how that works.


I see now. Very cool . I may have to try through mortises at some point now. And thanks


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*2 curvy dining chair prototypes*

Here's the recent chair prototype on the right shown in relation an older prototype where I used laminations rather than steam bending to form the curves.


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Loren said:


> *2 curvy dining chair prototypes*
> 
> Here's the recent chair prototype on the right shown in relation an older prototype where I used laminations rather than steam bending to form the curves.


Looks good Loren ,pretty cool design. What kind of slant do you have on the backs?


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *2 curvy dining chair prototypes*
> 
> Here's the recent chair prototype on the right shown in relation an older prototype where I used laminations rather than steam bending to form the curves.


Honestly I don't know. I'm finding as I mess around with
dining chairs more that it's not that critical for comfort relatively
speaking. Obviously with some dining chair designs you would 
not slouch against the back for long… it's more there to 
move the chair around. Only a low back is required to
prevent falling off the chair backwards… for some reason
the higher back is nice to have even though it's not
necessary. I don't care much for the way a straight vertical
chair back looks but plenty of designers have done them 
successfully.

The chair on the left has a bulging back splat. Without it
leaning back against the back would feel a little odd. You
wouldn't do that much anyway because the back splat
hitting your lower back reminds to sit up straight.

The chair on the left is from a book. A nice enough design
and a good practice chair to make that demands attention
to joinery and making forms for the laminations, both good
skills for interesting and tough furniture pieces. On having
it hanging around for awhile, I currently consider it a bit
clunky and it looks a bit like Gumby. I may reconsider
or change things around and make a finer one in some
nice wood sometime. Maybe I should paint it green.


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Loren said:


> *2 curvy dining chair prototypes*
> 
> Here's the recent chair prototype on the right shown in relation an older prototype where I used laminations rather than steam bending to form the curves.


Some backs have lumbar support that can be very comfortable ,but like you say Loren many dining room chairs backs are very straight .I feel this is the case because folks actually lean forward while dining unlike a chair you lounge in.
What's your plan for the seats ?


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *2 curvy dining chair prototypes*
> 
> Here's the recent chair prototype on the right shown in relation an older prototype where I used laminations rather than steam bending to form the curves.


Well the one on the left has a curved laminated seat that
I haven't done anything more with. It would be
upholstered. The chair is more flawed up close than
it looks in a picture so I'm not that motivated to
try to make it into a finished piece.

The one on the right I'm going to do a slip seat after
Michael Fortune's article. I did a couple of those
before and they look good. I'll have to make a frame
I think so the seat can flex. That may turn out to
be an interesting design flourish. I considered cane
which I'm fond of but I think I'd like to do a chair
with a cane back so I'll just probably get into the
cane seat concept then.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *2 curvy dining chair prototypes*
> 
> Here's the recent chair prototype on the right shown in relation an older prototype where I used laminations rather than steam bending to form the curves.


Some chairs I did a few months back are about as comfortable
as a high back wood dining chair can be I think. The crest rail
cradles the shoulders. Still, it's wood and it's hard material to
slouch against. Nothing beats upholstery for comfort.

Having got that out of my system, I'm doing some starker
more modernist things like the oak chair above to get more 
chairs in my portfolio.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/99769


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Loren said:


> *2 curvy dining chair prototypes*
> 
> Here's the recent chair prototype on the right shown in relation an older prototype where I used laminations rather than steam bending to form the curves.


Dining chairs with high backs look better around the table because the chairs are visually separated from the table top, while low chair backs give a more cluttered appearance. I can understand your frustration because chair design is a real challenge, especially the appearance part. It seems to me that you are in the R&D stage and that it won't be so long before you come up with something you are totally satisfied with. To me, the ones you've done so far mostly look good.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *2 curvy dining chair prototypes*
> 
> Here's the recent chair prototype on the right shown in relation an older prototype where I used laminations rather than steam bending to form the curves.


That's a good insight, Mike. Frank L. Wright designed some 
high backed chairs to create an insular environment for
his family because he had apprentices and house help
all around and wanted to relate to his children.

I'm not looking for one perfect chair. I sell work, after all.
On some level if we do that we have to pander to buyer 
tastes. Some people like this or that. They may prioritize
geometric appeal over comfort in a chair. I want to
have a range.

The perfect chair will probably give most clients
sticker shock too. I live in So. Cal too and you might
be surprised at how easily sticker shock can be induced.
My chair designs make pragmatic compromises to 
hit price points. I have little interest in making elaborate
and pricey sculpted stuff. Selling it is akin to hunting
big game. Some people make a go of it and do well
I suppose.


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Loren said:


> *2 curvy dining chair prototypes*
> 
> Here's the recent chair prototype on the right shown in relation an older prototype where I used laminations rather than steam bending to form the curves.


I guess I missed your steam bent walnut chairs before,Very nice! Your designing with the economic impact makes a lot of sense. Although I guess it's a world wide challenge for woodworkers it makes me feel a little less concerned to know that you fight the price point challenges with your furniture also, even though your located in a much more populated area than I am in my little town. I know selling furniture(chairs in particular) takes more than just a larger customer base, but it also includes good design,quality workmanship,a source of reasonably priced material ,shop overhead cost and good marketing skills . From what I've seen on line you have a good grasp of all of those areas Loren.


----------



## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

Loren said:


> *2 curvy dining chair prototypes*
> 
> Here's the recent chair prototype on the right shown in relation an older prototype where I used laminations rather than steam bending to form the curves.


Nice designs Loren! Please keep us in the loop with photos as you work your way to a final design. Back in the 1970s I used to build for money as a sideline to finance my basement workshop, but I don't do it any more. One architectural firm kept me busy for quite a while. Now I am retired and want my time all to myself!

Planeman (Rufus Carswell, Atlanta, GA)


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *2 curvy dining chair prototypes*
> 
> Here's the recent chair prototype on the right shown in relation an older prototype where I used laminations rather than steam bending to form the curves.


I've started saying that I have to target people who don't
have to give up a vacation to buy my work.

A lot of people here are "house poor". Even (perhaps especially)
in the more affluent areas. Some people aren't of course,
but I don't often run into people who are like "we want to 
throw away our furniture and buy yours." Ha-ha, you know? 
They have to give up stuff they're used to having around, 
spend a bunch of money they could spend on a vacation
or whatever, wait for the work to be done… etc. It's a
situation that's not exactly compatible with the instant
gratification society and the retail buying experience most
people have had, where you go into a store or a website
and get to compare all the different things you might buy
and then when you give over your money you get the
thing then and there and it's often at a price point 
that's not too painful.


----------



## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

Loren said:


> *2 curvy dining chair prototypes*
> 
> Here's the recent chair prototype on the right shown in relation an older prototype where I used laminations rather than steam bending to form the curves.


I would recommend you target interior designers of commercial office space, architects, both residential and commercial, decorators, etc. These are the people who are commissioned by those who are looking for new space or re-doing old space to develop interesting new looks for their homes and businesses. Their clients are the people and businesses that can afford the type of things you would build.

I would prepare a presentation - digital on a laptop, scrapbook type in a very nice binder, or a website - and try to make one business presentation a week, more in slack periods. Invite them to your shop. Call them by phone about every other month to see if they might have a new project you could take a look at. Keep all of the names, phone numbers and addresses on your computer and note what was said by the client when you spoke to them. When calling them back, it impresses them that you remembered the last call or meeting so well. Try to go by and see them as reasonably often as you can, better potential clients more often, others less. If they seem to always be busy, ask them go go for a brief lunch. Everybody eats lunch and a free lunch, even a modest one, is a lure to get some time with them. Many of these people are good at visual design. But often these same people are not so good at designing what can be efficiently be built. Ask to take a look at what they are presently designing and offer to advise them on how a small design change can save money. They are looking at avoiding "sticker shock" with their clients too. Take good photos of your work, preferably in its new owner's setting and have a good looking presentation. If a really nice presentation is beyond your design capabilities, swap some of your working time to them for their time and design abilities.

I spent my lifetime working as a sales rep in the printing, graphic design, and advertising field and ended as vice president of a nice ad agency in charge of getting new business. The above and persistence is what works.

Good luck,

Rufus


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *2 curvy dining chair prototypes*
> 
> Here's the recent chair prototype on the right shown in relation an older prototype where I used laminations rather than steam bending to form the curves.


I marketed to interior designers in the past. I'm more
focused on my own stuff right now but I'll get back
to it sooner or later. I prefer architects because many
of them have shop experience where most of the
interior designers I've met do not.

One issue I've had in dealing with the interior designers
is getting beat down on price and build quality in order
for the designer to mark the work up 100% and still
be able to close the sale. I've also been stiffed.

I am also trying to not do as much casework. I don't
like doing it much and prefer to do furniture.


----------



## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

Loren said:


> *2 curvy dining chair prototypes*
> 
> Here's the recent chair prototype on the right shown in relation an older prototype where I used laminations rather than steam bending to form the curves.


I marketed to interior designers in the past. I'm more focused on my own stuff right now but I'll get back to it sooner or later. I prefer architects because many of them have shop experience where most of the interior designers I've met do not.

Most of my work was done for a couple of very large architectural firms who kept me busier than I really wanted to be. I didn't work with interior decorators. But your observation matches mine. However often even the large architectural firms often needed guidance in the construction of their designs. I recall one design they worked on a good while and it turned out it was impossible to build as it was designed without going to the sizable expense of making large solid brass investment castings which were beyond the cost target. My competition couldn't do it either so I felt vindicated.

One issue I've had in dealing with the interior designers is getting beat down on price and build quality in order
for the designer to mark the work up 100% and still be able to close the sale. I've also been stiffed.

In all of the businesses I have been involved in getting all of the money in the end was often a small battle. The little guys are usually working on a shoe string and, like you say, want to maximize their profit. It was always customary to get the cost of materials up front. If that was resisted, the other option was to have the materials ordered by and billed to either them or their client. I would only have materials billed to me when I knew a client well and had a long successful paying relationship with them. If I felt uneasy about payment I would require payment immediately upon completion and delivery. A couple took issue with these terms and I let the job go by. Ofter I would later get the word they had stiffed some other people.

I am also trying to not do as much casework. I don't like doing it much and prefer to do furniture.

Yeah, casework can be bland and boring work. And unless it has some special construction or finishing needs, a large cabinet shop set up especially for that kind of thing can about always beat your price.

Good luck on expanding your business!

Rufus


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *2 curvy dining chair prototypes*
> 
> Here's the recent chair prototype on the right shown in relation an older prototype where I used laminations rather than steam bending to form the curves.


Thanks. It's taken me many years of trial and error to 
get to where I am now, finally getting around to
doing proprietary chair designs.

I've got the stuff to do marquetry and that's something
I intend to get around to. Then it's putting work 
in county fairs and stuff like that.

I'm also working through a maddening back/shoulder problem and
it's getting better. In part this physical issue makes 
general casework a turn-off and doing such work led to 
cycles of exhaustion in the past.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Wedging through tenons*

Wedges are cut on a band saw jig which is simply a piece of plywood 
with a notch cut out which runs against the rip fence.

The slots I cut on the band saw too, making each slot the width
of two band saw blade kerfs, so about 3/32".

I use glue too, just as normal with a mortise and tenon joint, 
brushing it on the cheeks and sides of the tenons. I didn't
use glue on the wedges. Once cut off flush the chance
that they would somehow wiggle loose is remote, imo.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Ebonizing an oak/ash chair*

Ebonizing the chair. There were some surface checks in the back and flaws in the materials I used for the legs. I filled the grain and checks with water putty mixed with black dye. After sanding that dried filler back, I dye it several times with the same black. The grain fill job isn't perfect, so it won't look like a piano (they wouldn't ebonize an open grained wood for a piano anyway), but if I keep laying on the black dye eventually I'll win and get something close to the real color of ebony. After that a film finish brings up the gloss. I've been "french polishing" using oil-modified water soluble polyurethane instead of shellac with good results.

I use t-shirt material held in a hemostat. I have a bunch of those I've acquired over the years. The dye does get on my fingers but being dissolved in water it washes off skin far more easily than alcohol dyes.


----------



## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Ebonizing an oak/ash chair*
> 
> Ebonizing the chair. There were some surface checks in the back and flaws in the materials I used for the legs. I filled the grain and checks with water putty mixed with black dye. After sanding that dried filler back, I dye it several times with the same black. The grain fill job isn't perfect, so it won't look like a piano (they wouldn't ebonize an open grained wood for a piano anyway), but if I keep laying on the black dye eventually I'll win and get something close to the real color of ebony. After that a film finish brings up the gloss. I've been "french polishing" using oil-modified water soluble polyurethane instead of shellac with good results.
> 
> I use t-shirt material held in a hemostat. I have a bunch of those I've acquired over the years. The dye does get on my fingers but being dissolved in water it washes off skin far more easily than alcohol dyes.


"oil-modified water soluble poly" What is your source ?

"water putty" I'm not familiar with that product either.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Ebonizing an oak/ash chair*
> 
> Ebonizing the chair. There were some surface checks in the back and flaws in the materials I used for the legs. I filled the grain and checks with water putty mixed with black dye. After sanding that dried filler back, I dye it several times with the same black. The grain fill job isn't perfect, so it won't look like a piano (they wouldn't ebonize an open grained wood for a piano anyway), but if I keep laying on the black dye eventually I'll win and get something close to the real color of ebony. After that a film finish brings up the gloss. I've been "french polishing" using oil-modified water soluble polyurethane instead of shellac with good results.
> 
> I use t-shirt material held in a hemostat. I have a bunch of those I've acquired over the years. The dye does get on my fingers but being dissolved in water it washes off skin far more easily than alcohol dyes.


I think it's Minwax. A gloss finish I bought for doing a refinish
job on some stairs. I wanted oil gloss but they didn't have
it. Gloss is the toughest. I had a lot left over and my shellac
went bad so I'm experimenting. I'm in California so oil-base is
getting hard to find. Got it at Home Depot.

Durham's "Rock Hard" Water Putty. Cheap stuff…. kind of
like plaster in that it does a thermal hardening chemical
reaction and only stays workable for about 30 minutes. 
Doesn't shrink much. Takes stain terribly
once dried but can be mixed with water soluble pigments
for good results.


----------



## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Ebonizing an oak/ash chair*
> 
> Ebonizing the chair. There were some surface checks in the back and flaws in the materials I used for the legs. I filled the grain and checks with water putty mixed with black dye. After sanding that dried filler back, I dye it several times with the same black. The grain fill job isn't perfect, so it won't look like a piano (they wouldn't ebonize an open grained wood for a piano anyway), but if I keep laying on the black dye eventually I'll win and get something close to the real color of ebony. After that a film finish brings up the gloss. I've been "french polishing" using oil-modified water soluble polyurethane instead of shellac with good results.
> 
> I use t-shirt material held in a hemostat. I have a bunch of those I've acquired over the years. The dye does get on my fingers but being dissolved in water it washes off skin far more easily than alcohol dyes.


Thanks Loren. I'll look at HD but I'm thinkin it may be a "left coast" thing!


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Ebonizing an oak/ash chair*
> 
> Ebonizing the chair. There were some surface checks in the back and flaws in the materials I used for the legs. I filled the grain and checks with water putty mixed with black dye. After sanding that dried filler back, I dye it several times with the same black. The grain fill job isn't perfect, so it won't look like a piano (they wouldn't ebonize an open grained wood for a piano anyway), but if I keep laying on the black dye eventually I'll win and get something close to the real color of ebony. After that a film finish brings up the gloss. I've been "french polishing" using oil-modified water soluble polyurethane instead of shellac with good results.
> 
> I use t-shirt material held in a hemostat. I have a bunch of those I've acquired over the years. The dye does get on my fingers but being dissolved in water it washes off skin far more easily than alcohol dyes.


You may be able to request to have it delivered to your
local store online. I check stock online and have noticed
that not all HD stores dedicate the same shelf area to
the same product type. One in my area has a feeble
selection of exterior patching compound while the
other has lots of it.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Modernist chair - riffing on a vocabulary of shapes*

This is turning out as an interesting design. I am personally not that modernist leaning in my tastes, but I like to play with combining shapes and doing technical things for the heck of it. It occurred to me I could use the bent u-shape I used on other chairs to do this one, since it does actually work for parking one's posterior and I know how to make it already. I was gonna do something trapezoidal, but really this is easier to make for me and introduces a whole new level to the geometric presentation of the chair from every angle. Chairs are sculpture in the round, which is part of why, aesthetically speaking, making a good one is considered so challenging. In reality they aren't that hard to do, but one does have to know enough to do joinery well.


----------



## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Modernist chair - riffing on a vocabulary of shapes*
> 
> This is turning out as an interesting design. I am personally not that modernist leaning in my tastes, but I like to play with combining shapes and doing technical things for the heck of it. It occurred to me I could use the bent u-shape I used on other chairs to do this one, since it does actually work for parking one's posterior and I know how to make it already. I was gonna do something trapezoidal, but really this is easier to make for me and introduces a whole new level to the geometric presentation of the chair from every angle. Chairs are sculpture in the round, which is part of why, aesthetically speaking, making a good one is considered so challenging. In reality they aren't that hard to do, but one does have to know enough to do joinery well.


Loren That is a really beautiful chair nice job.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Another test of steambending*

Testing limits. This 1" thick by 4" wide board was really difficult for me to pull around. Due to figure this board is probably a less than ideal candidate for steam bending but now I know I can bend this part, so it's good enough for a prototype I think.

I'm going to make a horizontal back crest for a stool design I had an idea for. The part actually cracked a bit at one end, due to the wild figure perhaps or maybe just because I split the end block at the same spot pulling it around. I don't need the part that split anyway because I'm going to cut this part off so it's not really like an armrest, it will just kind of hint at that… we'll see. I already had the form for another bend in narrower material and didn't want to make another form just to try out this idea.


----------



## DrPain (Sep 2, 2009)

Loren said:


> *Another test of steambending*
> 
> Testing limits. This 1" thick by 4" wide board was really difficult for me to pull around. Due to figure this board is probably a less than ideal candidate for steam bending but now I know I can bend this part, so it's good enough for a prototype I think.
> 
> I'm going to make a horizontal back crest for a stool design I had an idea for. The part actually cracked a bit at one end, due to the wild figure perhaps or maybe just because I split the end block at the same spot pulling it around. I don't need the part that split anyway because I'm going to cut this part off so it's not really like an armrest, it will just kind of hint at that… we'll see. I already had the form for another bend in narrower material and didn't want to make another form just to try out this idea.


I can't quite tell from the picture, but is there strapping on the outside? Is this kiln-dried wood?


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Another test of steambending*
> 
> Testing limits. This 1" thick by 4" wide board was really difficult for me to pull around. Due to figure this board is probably a less than ideal candidate for steam bending but now I know I can bend this part, so it's good enough for a prototype I think.
> 
> I'm going to make a horizontal back crest for a stool design I had an idea for. The part actually cracked a bit at one end, due to the wild figure perhaps or maybe just because I split the end block at the same spot pulling it around. I don't need the part that split anyway because I'm going to cut this part off so it's not really like an armrest, it will just kind of hint at that… we'll see. I already had the form for another bend in narrower material and didn't want to make another form just to try out this idea.


Yes to both. It's 2 Veritas bending systems bolted together.

I'm in Los Angeles air dried wood is not available. I know
air dried is better but I'm getting acceptable results for my 
modest bends using kiln dried.


----------



## DrPain (Sep 2, 2009)

Loren said:


> *Another test of steambending*
> 
> Testing limits. This 1" thick by 4" wide board was really difficult for me to pull around. Due to figure this board is probably a less than ideal candidate for steam bending but now I know I can bend this part, so it's good enough for a prototype I think.
> 
> I'm going to make a horizontal back crest for a stool design I had an idea for. The part actually cracked a bit at one end, due to the wild figure perhaps or maybe just because I split the end block at the same spot pulling it around. I don't need the part that split anyway because I'm going to cut this part off so it's not really like an armrest, it will just kind of hint at that… we'll see. I already had the form for another bend in narrower material and didn't want to make another form just to try out this idea.


Yeah, I can't find air-dried wood either (in Virginia) although I haven't looked that hard. But I think that's more than a modest bend! What kind of wood is that? I was bending African Mahogany much more modestly and having some problems, although I wasn't able to use strapping, which probably contributed to my troubles.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Another test of steambending*
> 
> Testing limits. This 1" thick by 4" wide board was really difficult for me to pull around. Due to figure this board is probably a less than ideal candidate for steam bending but now I know I can bend this part, so it's good enough for a prototype I think.
> 
> I'm going to make a horizontal back crest for a stool design I had an idea for. The part actually cracked a bit at one end, due to the wild figure perhaps or maybe just because I split the end block at the same spot pulling it around. I don't need the part that split anyway because I'm going to cut this part off so it's not really like an armrest, it will just kind of hint at that… we'll see. I already had the form for another bend in narrower material and didn't want to make another form just to try out this idea.


Whatever they sell as white oak.

Most exotics don't bend well. Try oak, ash, walnut,
cherry maybe.

You really need to look at straps and end stops to
bent furniture parts. The set up can take some time
but the results are predictable with low reject rates 
with typical bend-friendly woods.

I have bent thin African mahogany on a hot pipe for a guitar.


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## woodshopmike (Nov 5, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Another test of steambending*
> 
> Testing limits. This 1" thick by 4" wide board was really difficult for me to pull around. Due to figure this board is probably a less than ideal candidate for steam bending but now I know I can bend this part, so it's good enough for a prototype I think.
> 
> I'm going to make a horizontal back crest for a stool design I had an idea for. The part actually cracked a bit at one end, due to the wild figure perhaps or maybe just because I split the end block at the same spot pulling it around. I don't need the part that split anyway because I'm going to cut this part off so it's not really like an armrest, it will just kind of hint at that… we'll see. I already had the form for another bend in narrower material and didn't want to make another form just to try out this idea.


Just out of curiosity, how long are you steaming the wood before bending? I've never bent anything that thick, but for guitar sides I usually steamed for 15-30 minutes.

Also, I can't tell from the photo, but I assume you're using lumber with minimal grain run-out. If not, finding lumber that has the least run-out will pay dividends.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Another test of steambending*
> 
> Testing limits. This 1" thick by 4" wide board was really difficult for me to pull around. Due to figure this board is probably a less than ideal candidate for steam bending but now I know I can bend this part, so it's good enough for a prototype I think.
> 
> I'm going to make a horizontal back crest for a stool design I had an idea for. The part actually cracked a bit at one end, due to the wild figure perhaps or maybe just because I split the end block at the same spot pulling it around. I don't need the part that split anyway because I'm going to cut this part off so it's not really like an armrest, it will just kind of hint at that… we'll see. I already had the form for another bend in narrower material and didn't want to make another form just to try out this idea.


I look at runout of course, but in the end for furniture parts
I just bend and see what happens and my reject rate
is a non-issue using the method you see above. This part 
was steamed for about 1 hour.

I'm not bending expensive woods for furniture parts. I've
mentioned above exotics don't bend well anyway. Flatsawn
is said to bend best, which puts a more or less quartersawn
view on the edge, so I suppose ideally the edge would 
be quartered with no runout. It might happen if you
split the part. I will will sometimes look at the face grain of
a sawn board and it will be at such and awkward angle
I snap a line and bandsaw a taper on the board, joint and
then rip the board so the grain is straighter. This can 
be a wasteful practice or it can make for better looking,
more harmonious work, depending on how it used. I
haven't tried to strap bend a piece with this "defect" 
intact I don't think, but in any piece over 12" long or so,
some runout is likely to be present on one side of the
face or the other, owing to thickness variations in the
growth rings and twisting trees do when they grow.

I never steamed guitar sides. I spritzed as the bend progressed.
I did soak them beforehand a few times but went over to
spritzing later. If over-wet, grain lift-out occurs when 
bending without support on the back, as with bending
sides or binding on a hot pipe.


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## woodshopmike (Nov 5, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Another test of steambending*
> 
> Testing limits. This 1" thick by 4" wide board was really difficult for me to pull around. Due to figure this board is probably a less than ideal candidate for steam bending but now I know I can bend this part, so it's good enough for a prototype I think.
> 
> I'm going to make a horizontal back crest for a stool design I had an idea for. The part actually cracked a bit at one end, due to the wild figure perhaps or maybe just because I split the end block at the same spot pulling it around. I don't need the part that split anyway because I'm going to cut this part off so it's not really like an armrest, it will just kind of hint at that… we'll see. I already had the form for another bend in narrower material and didn't want to make another form just to try out this idea.


I hear ya. I guess the thicker stock makes run out not such a huge factor for your furniture work?

Exotics are tough indeed, but I've had success with Wenge and Padauk. Those were slow and methodical. I use spring steel on each side of the piece while bending and haven't had many failures arise with the extra support in place.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Another test of steambending*
> 
> Testing limits. This 1" thick by 4" wide board was really difficult for me to pull around. Due to figure this board is probably a less than ideal candidate for steam bending but now I know I can bend this part, so it's good enough for a prototype I think.
> 
> I'm going to make a horizontal back crest for a stool design I had an idea for. The part actually cracked a bit at one end, due to the wild figure perhaps or maybe just because I split the end block at the same spot pulling it around. I don't need the part that split anyway because I'm going to cut this part off so it's not really like an armrest, it will just kind of hint at that… we'll see. I already had the form for another bend in narrower material and didn't want to make another form just to try out this idea.


I would guess not. I bent some ash chair legs just a bit off the corner
recently and I didn't have any grain blow out. The strap was only
in contact with a tiny bevel on the corner, so I surmise that it's
really about the relationships between the end stops when bending
thicker stock. Of course some hidden defect on the outside face
could blow out without the support of a backing strap. I assumed
when I started strap bending that the strap was there in part to
prevent the grain lift-out I had seen when bending thin parts 
on a hot pipe, but maybe I'm wrong on that, at least with bendy
woods like oak.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Chinese influenced chair mockup*

Something I am playing around with.


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## NormG (Mar 5, 2010)

Loren said:


> *Chinese influenced chair mockup*
> 
> Something I am playing around with.


Simple and eligant


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## kaerlighedsbamsen (Sep 16, 2013)

Loren said:


> *Chinese influenced chair mockup*
> 
> Something I am playing around with.


Interesting. Makes me think of some of the 16-1700´s chinese chairs that had a boxy lower part and light, airy bent frame on top. Like these: http://www.chinese-antiquefurniture.co.uk/furniture-details.php?id=349

Let us know how it evolves!


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Chinese influenced chair mockup*
> 
> Something I am playing around with.


I was looking at Hans Wegner's "Chinese Chair", but if
course I'm familiar with the traditional Chinese style.

I was going to try making a sort of bar stool using this
bent crest as the back rest, but I couldn't figure it
out. The crest is 22" across and that seemed just all
over the place for a stool, to me. To add side supports
I would have either to make the stool seat ridiculously
wide, make the supports ridiculously curved or
angled (which I don't mind doing but I'm looking at
building furniture to hit price points and that sort of
thing can get complicated to fit well).

... so I decided to try this idea out. It's a little
promising. This is not a bad angle. With the crest
and no verticals on the front half, one could sit cross
legged on the chair, if one wanted to.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*More Chinese chair mockups*

The end grain of the crest rail had to be carefully marked 
and carved/planed to fit the squared boards the arm
pieces are cut from. This is one of those things that
makes chairs kind of funny where there are curved
parts intersecting. All it takes is patience and sharp
tools. I used a low angle jack plane some, sliding 
the plane sideways as I pushed to sheer off end
grain shavings, not something I had done before. 
before that I got close using chisels and rasps to get
it close.


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## phtaylor36 (Jun 13, 2011)

Loren said:


> *More Chinese chair mockups*
> 
> The end grain of the crest rail had to be carefully marked
> and carved/planed to fit the squared boards the arm
> ...


Very interesting.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Loren said:


> *More Chinese chair mockups*
> 
> The end grain of the crest rail had to be carefully marked
> and carved/planed to fit the squared boards the arm
> ...


Looks like you have the wood bending down to a science ;-) nice design.


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

Loren said:


> *More Chinese chair mockups*
> 
> The end grain of the crest rail had to be carefully marked
> and carved/planed to fit the squared boards the arm
> ...


any other pictures of build in process


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *More Chinese chair mockups*
> 
> The end grain of the crest rail had to be carefully marked
> and carved/planed to fit the squared boards the arm
> ...


Check previous entries in this blog series. This is really
just a 4" wide piece of oak steam-bent into a 22" 
wide horse-shoe and shaped with hand tools. 
There is a very slight steam-bent curve on the 
back-splat just to tilt the horse-shoe, but this angle
could be achieved in other ways and in fact I
enhanced it by putting a slight angle in the rabbet 
that intersects the back rail of the seat frame.

The rest is a square table frame and now I'm just 
fooling around with arm juncture ideas since the
mockup made it clear that cantilevering the crest
rail off the back splat with no other support was 
not going to be sturdy.

It's all put together with screws and no glue.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Mockup of continuous arm chair*


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Cutting dovetails using a bow saw part 1*


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## Oldtool (May 27, 2012)

Loren said:


> *Cutting dovetails using a bow saw part 1*


Interesting video & point of view on cutting dovetails. I agree with you on tails first, with the same reasoning you expressed in the video. I find it much easier to achieved tight joints that way.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Loren said:


> *Cutting dovetails using a bow saw part 1*


I prefer to cut pins first. Narrow dovetails are a lot easier to mark from the pins than the other way around and it's easy to cut accurately because you save the lines. I started out cutting tails first and never got the accuracy I wanted. I am not touting this as the 'correct' way. Each method has it's followers.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Cutting dovetails using a bow saw part 1*


When I find my little special marking knife that solves
that pin marking problem I'll make another video.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Cutting dovetails using a bow saw part 1*


I will be looking forward to it. I enjoyed this video.

I have no earthly idea the first thing about hand cutting a dovetail. If I had to I could fail forward fast and learn. Cool video. We have always used a PC router and Akeda jig and now we use our CNC.

Thanks for the video Loren.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

*Making liquid hide glue*

I've been running tests for veneering with liquid hide glue I make myself from granules. I've also used hot hide glue for veneering and I like it a lot but its short working time imposes some limits. Liquid hide glue can be made by adding other stuff to hide glue and cooking it. I used salt.

One recipe I tried involved 2 parts glue, 3 parts water and 1 part salt. This recipe didn't work out very well for veneering, though the glue produced has some useful characteristics. It is fluid, even runny at room temperature and it has a high initial tack so the veneer doesn't shift around. Unfortunately it also soaks into the veneer excessively and causes excessive veneer expansion which results in adhesion problems away from the edges. It didn't cure well in the press though perhaps I pressed it too long resulting in dry edges and a wet center. I think it would be a good glue for rubbed joints. The recipe I followed suggested adding salt after letting the mixture gel overnight and this also caused problems because the salt crystals didn't dissolve thoroughly after being cooked for two hours twice over and cooled in the refrigerator in between. I strained the salt crystals after the second cooling.

The second liquid hide glue recipe I tried worked better for veneering. It uses a lot less salt and I dissolved the salt in hot water first. I added the hide glue to the water which is a mistake. It's better to add the water to the hide glue because any moisture in the jar will cause glue crystals to stick to the sides where they won't dissolve and will either have to be wiped out or pushed down into the water with a rubber scraper. Pouring the crystals into the center of the jar using a funnel may also prevent any from sticking to the sides.

The second recipe produces a thicker glue that is not usable at room temperature. It can be made liquid by placing the jar in a hot tap water bath for a couple of minutes. The recipe is 1/2 cup hide glue granules, 2 tsp salt, and 1/2 cup water. After the mixture sits overnight the glue was cooked (like hot hide glue) for 2 hours and then cooled in the refrigerator and cooked again afterwards to dissolve any remaining crystals.

The second glue worked well for adhering veneer to MDF in a screw press. I tried overnight pressing and a 3 hour press time and both test pieces showed good adhesion.

The salt acts as a preservative and it stands to reason that adding more salt makes the shelf life longer in addition to decreasing its working temperature.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Loren said:


> *Making liquid hide glue*
> 
> I've been running tests for veneering with liquid hide glue I make myself from granules. I've also used hot hide glue for veneering and I like it a lot but its short working time imposes some limits. Liquid hide glue can be made by adding other stuff to hide glue and cooking it. I used salt.
> 
> ...


I like your blog series. Very informative. I've been making my own LHG for a couple of years now. You're wasting your time with salt. Here's a tip: look at a bottle of Old Brown Glue or check Patrick's web site. Ingredients are hydroyized collagen and urea. You want to be using urea, not salt. There's a world of difference in the results.

The trick is getting the right viscosity at your working temperature. I like it to be about the same as PVA glue. Of course as it gets warmer, the glue gets thinner. I did two blog posts here and here (the second one shows my setup for cooking the glue) on my efforts to alter the recipe for the warmer summer months here in Tucson, however, in the long run I find it's more practical to regulate the working temperature of the glue than to mess with the recipe. I keep mine in the fridge and put it in a container of water to get it ready to use.

You got the cooking process right. Two hours at 140º, into the fridge overnight and then two more hours at 140º. The temperature is pretty important.

Beyond that, all that's left is getting the recipe right. Glue, urea and water - but in what amounts? That's the fun part.

P.S. For veneering, one trick is to put the bottle in very warm water. It will get almost as


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

Loren said:


> *Making liquid hide glue*
> 
> I've been running tests for veneering with liquid hide glue I make myself from granules. I've also used hot hide glue for veneering and I like it a lot but its short working time imposes some limits. Liquid hide glue can be made by adding other stuff to hide glue and cooking it. I used salt.
> 
> ...


Okay so what kind of urea? In diesel engines they are using pig urea as a additive for emissions reasons. Who came up with that I have no idea.

Can I just pee in a bottle, boil it off a bit and that works? My wife has alot of cats, bet with some work I can get them to pee in a collector.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Loren said:


> *Making liquid hide glue*
> 
> I've been running tests for veneering with liquid hide glue I make myself from granules. I've also used hot hide glue for veneering and I like it a lot but its short working time imposes some limits. Liquid hide glue can be made by adding other stuff to hide glue and cooking it. I used salt.
> 
> ...





> Okay so what kind of urea? In diesel engines they are using pig urea as a additive for emissions reasons. Who came up with that I have no idea.
> 
> - woodbutcherbynight


LOL. OK, one of the stories about how liquid hide glue was discovered was that a disgruntled apprentice peed in his master's hot glue pot in an act of rebellion. Is it true? Who knows? Probably not.

Here's the urea you're looking for though: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H9U3FJM


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Loren said:


> *Making liquid hide glue*
> 
> I've been running tests for veneering with liquid hide glue I make myself from granules. I've also used hot hide glue for veneering and I like it a lot but its short working time imposes some limits. Liquid hide glue can be made by adding other stuff to hide glue and cooking it. I used salt.
> 
> ...


Thiourea can be used as well.

I found this somewhat scientific guide to adding "gel suppressants" to hide glue to extend its open time. In the case of veneering I want it to gel, which means that it has to be heated at least a little so it gels when it cools. The curing comes from air exposure while the gel holds it in place after removal from the press.


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