# Woodpeckers Hole Boring jig vs. Parf Guide System



## MinnesotaMarty (Jan 25, 2015)

I am getting ready to invest in one of the two systems for producing an MFT style bench and/or work surfaces. The way I see it Woodpecker system cost about $40 dollars ($199) less than the parf guide system ($239). Which is highly unusual. Woodpecker's stuff is never less money. 
The Hole boring jig needs a plunge router and a spiral upcut bit. It can be used to make small accessory pieces that could fit onto the MFT system, whereas the parf guide system seems more suited for a large full size MFT tables. 
Accuracy is a concern with the Woodpeckers Hole Boring jig. It references off the edge of whatever part is getting holes. So, you are only as good as to what you are referencing. off of. Whereas, Geometry can't be beat for accuracy. The 3,4,5 triangle is fact.
So, my question to fellow Lumberjocks that have used the Woodpeckers Hole boring jig, is do you believe it is accurate. I want to be able to cut sheet goods for cabinet building. I believe the parf guide system does in fact do that but I see that the Woodpeckers Hole boring jig is a little more versatile. 
Reactions and thoughts are appreciated.

Marty


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## northwoodsman (Feb 22, 2008)

I looked at both, watched a lot of video's and landed on the latest Parf system. I came to the same conclusion that you can't go wrong with a 3,4,5 triangle. I also like the hole drilling system. I have the Festool MFT/3 and was thinking that I would be replacing tops every year or so and perhaps build some extensions for the current one. Well 6 months later the Parf system box sits on my workbench unopened. Due to some medical issues I dialed my woodworking way back and based on progress don't see myself getting back into very much, at least not doing things that requiring standing, bending, or reaching. I'll give you a good deal on it if you are interested. I'll send you a message.


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## BFBF (Nov 26, 2021)

I am in the exact same predicament. In the Festool Owners Group, a few mentioned that the WoodPecker's Hole Boring Template might result in a little slop. But, no one actually knew that for sure. Surprising to me what that many questioned the accuracy for perfect 90 degree crosscuts on the Festool MFT table. Some prefer the right angle and parallel guides (e.g. TSO, Benchdogs.UK, WP). Others brought up the Kreg Adaptive Cutting System, but it is Imperial, but noted that the Kreg plunge saw cuts right handed, which was more comfortable than the other plunge saws.

I thought about using the Bora Centipede table top as a router template. Finish the inside holes with shellac or some other hardening agent to make it last longer.


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## Jerroni (Jun 1, 2018)

You can use the Woodpecker jig, but I'd do a few of other things, too. Note that hole patterns for the Woodpecker jig is 4×3. This is too small in my opinion - so we'll make a bigger jig, using the accuracy of the provided jig. The problem is that there could be a little bit of slop, and with many overlaps the jig method yields a larger error at the end (0.2 mm off and 10 spacings = 2 mm - just enough to be annoying). So the steps to counter this are to:

1. Make three long plates (1/2" of stable and flat plywood or MDF) that are at least 1 m long (11 holes and 10 hole spacings in a line = 960 mm o.c.+ extra space on each end - let's say 42"). Also, leave the width wider than 120 mm (approx. 4 3/4"). Take care to place 11 - 20 mm holes as straight as you can. Using the jig is a good way, but use clamps and give yourself some time to practice! If you get the first plate perfect, then make the other two off of the first one, using a pattern bit and double stick tape. Principle - If we can't make 11 holes in a straight line at 96 mm spacings, we shouldn't expect a square hole pattern with better accuracy. If you get it right on - proceed. Note - the long edges of these plates need to be smooth (de-nibebd) and straight, parallel to the hole pattern. You can use a spare piece of plywood that is reliably parallel - line it up with the dog holes on one side - and fix it to the 11-hole plate. Then, use a table saw (or track saw) to trim the edge parallel to the holes. This can be done for both long edges. Check with a caliper and adjust as needed.

2. Using the jig, create a 5×4 hole pattern plate using woodpeckers jig to a stable piece (1/2" plywood or MDF). First, cut all 12 holes using the 4×3 jig (follow woodpecker's manual). Then, place two of your 11-hole plates along the wide side of the jig. You should be able to line up the 20 mm holes on the bottom row (you just cut) and the plates, using 20 mm bench dogs. Once you have the long plates set and aligned, clamp these down, you can move the 4×3 jig up two holes to make the 4×5 hole pattern. You can now check the diagonals - 3×4 x 5 spacings, using your 11-hole plates. If you are good here - proceed. Otherwise practice until you get it right. This was just for practice, but you can also use it in the next step, as a spacer and clamp block for the template.

3. Next, you'll want to set your target piece - larger table for the full hole pattern. You could proceed a couple of different ways, but the key is to get a straight line of at least 9 holes on one edge (I'd start along one long edge) and a perpendicular set of holes of at least 7 holes on a short edge. Use your 11-hole plates from step 1 to check 3-4-5 triangle spacing (in this case 6-8-10). That's a great way to check 90 and to place the templates. Once you have this set, I'd lay out a 9-hole pattern parallel to your first row of holes - checking 90 degrees with the 3-4-5 technique. Now, you have a great place to start the larger hole pattern and to use parallels and your 11-hole plates to guide the jig. This also avoids the error propagation from one end to the other. This method is actually quite similar to the parf-system.

Note that your target piece needs to be flat as you work on the hole pattern. 1/4" out of flat and you'll be fighting the geometry. So, if you are concerned about getting a flat base, I'd work on that first - using a torsion box method.

One advantage of the woodpecker's jig is that it allows thicker and harder bases (hardwood or thick plywood). You can also avoid cutting the tiny drill holes first. However, you'll probably want to use a drill to make the routing easier. For thicker materials, you might make smaller holes (say 1/2" or 5/8") with a drill bit, then remove the rest of the 20 mm waste with the plunge router and jig. Much nicer on your expensive router bit.

Another option (if you haven't realized it by now) - get a CNC shop to make a one plate of at least 11 20 mm holes in a straight line (aluminum or laminated mdf best) - then duplicate that for a nice set of straight-line hole plates. You can set up parallels and spacings that follow previously set holes (and your own guides) to make accurate hole patterns. Another option is the Part fence ( https://www.axminstertools.com/us/ujk-parf-system-fence-stop-kit-1-000mm-107462?glCountry=US&glCurrency=USD ). Leaves some money to buy a dog hole set and pattern bits. You can come up with quite accurate placement methods with uniform offsets that fall within the tolerance of the hole patters of the original plates.

Final tip - did you know that 3/4" PVC pipe ID is surprising close to 20 mm? You can ream out any slop with a 20 mm bit and you have some nice collars. Buy a 27 mm bit and you can epoxy the PVC into small plywood plates with a 27 mm hole in the middle. Sized small enough to be placed end to end with a bit of space between - you can use two dogs and one reference plate with 96 mm spacing (like a part fence) to position the plates. Trick - you don't worry about hole spacing, but you simply mount the plates with a spacing set by the dog holes and reference. Glue and pin nails onto another sheet of plywood. Just need a straight edge to align the other holes along one consistent line of 96 mm. Trim the edges paralel to the holes using a parallel spacer on the table saw (or track saw). Cover the whole thing with laminate - and then trim route and chamfer the holes. All things you already know how to do a low cost materials!

I've spent way too much of my own time thinking about this, so I thought I'd share these odd tips. One thing I realized was that I don't really trust all the hole patterns I've made in the past for square, but it's so easy to use the hole patterns with a 1/2" bolt and a block (and a square) to get it right on. Woodpecker's goal was to offer a good way to make a reasonably accurate hole pattern - with the goal of setup and clamping options - not for CNC accuracy out of the table itself. I think that's reasonable - and you may simply want to get that jig and go to town.


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## AmGrunt1833 (Nov 26, 2021)

This is some good info thanks guys 
Sean 
http://www.modern-memories.com


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## MinnesotaMarty (Jan 25, 2015)

Jerroni, that was quite the reply. You have thought about making /using the 20 mm system work. I have read your reply and need to read it again because I didn't get everything the first time around. I built a Paulk work table for my garage without any holes. Just basically to break down plywood before I take it into my shop which is above my garage for machining and assembly and finishing. The MFT system is for both the existing table and and a new bench that is modified for the space available upstairs. That modification is particular to making the top a torsion box. Currently, completing a torsion box router table on the Powermatic table saw. with plywood and laminate. it is bang on flat. So, the workbench will be the same.

Thanks,

Marty


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## BFBF (Nov 26, 2021)

> You can use the Woodpecker jig, but I d do a few of other things, too. Note that hole patterns for the Woodpecker jig is 4×3. This is too small in my opinion - so we ll make a bigger jig, using the accuracy of the provided jig. The problem is that there could be a little bit of slop, and with many overlaps the jig method yields a larger error at the end (0.2 mm off and 10 spacings = 2 mm - just enough to be annoying). So the steps to counter this are to:
> 
> 1. Make three long plates (1/2" of stable and flat plywood or MDF) that are at least 1 m long (11 holes and 10 hole spacings in a line = 960 mm o.c.+ extra space on each end - let s say 42"). Also, leave the width wider than 120 mm (approx. 4 3/4"). Take care to place 11 - 20 mm holes as straight as you can. Using the jig is a good way, but use clamps and give yourself some time to practice! If you get the first plate perfect, then make the other two off of the first one, using a pattern bit and double stick tape. Principle - If we can t make 11 holes in a straight line at 96 mm spacings, we shouldn t expect a square hole pattern with better accuracy. If you get it right on - proceed. Note - the long edges of these plates need to be smooth (de-nibebd) and straight, parallel to the hole pattern. You can use a spare piece of plywood that is reliably parallel - line it up with the dog holes on one side - and fix it to the 11-hole plate. Then, use a table saw (or track saw) to trim the edge parallel to the holes. This can be done for both long edges. Check with a caliper and adjust as needed.
> 
> ...


That was very interesting and well thought out. Some good nuggets in there. However, can you explain how is that better than just buying a Bora worktop for $80, saving time and money? If only using just one half of the worktop, that is a 6×6 template, and if the hinged two halves are accurate (or you can shim them to be accurate), then it is 12×6 template.


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## xedos (Apr 25, 2020)

> The way I see it Woodpecker system cost about $40 dollars ($199) less than the parf guide system ($239). Which is highly unusual. Woodpecker s stuff is never less money.
> Marty
> - MinnesotaMarty


You're looking at it through blinders. That price doesn't include the router bit - which is 50-70$ xtra. Clever, those marketing boys disguising they're really more expensive.

The real problem with the WP jigs is the wasted time hogging out a hole or 50 in circular motion. Plus the holes have a tendency to come out rough , burned or not concentric on first go. Which means more time cleaning them up. One of the early proponents of the WP on the FoG (cheese) finally came to the realization that a single 20mm bit was a better way to fly. He found out the hard way that no one makes a suitable guide bushing to for the WP template though. A hinged his own, which isn't and optIon for most people.

Bottom line is the WP jig is a turkey. Well made , but the system / process is simply a poor way to machine 20mm holes.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> You're looking at it through blinders. That price doesn't include the router bit - which is 50-70$ xtra. Clever, those marketing boys disguising they're more expensive.
> 
> The real problem with the WP jigs is the wasted time hogging out a hole or 50 in circular motion. Plus the holes have a tendency to come out rough , burned or *not concentric* on first go. Which means more time cleaning them up. One of the early proponents of the WP on the FoG (cheese) finally came to the realization that a single 20mm bit was a better way to fly. He found out the hard way that no one makes a suitable guide bushing to for the WP template though. A hinged his own, which isn't and optIon for most people.
> 
> ...


Explain how a single hole can fail to be concentric.


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## xedos (Apr 25, 2020)

My apologies , you're correct. Concentric doesn't really have anything to do with it , does it ?

I should have said perfectly round.

Which……….doesn't change the shortcomings of the WP jig. At all.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Which……….doesn't change the shortcomings of the WP jig. At all.
> 
> - xedos


I completely agree with you about going with the 20mm Forstner bit. I did my MFT tops with the Shaper Origin, which isn't an option for everyone. I've researched the options though, and if I had to buy something today, it would be the Parf setup. I have used a 20mm Forstner bit for other related applications, and it's perfect.

Regardless of how you cut them, if you want to go all in on Peter Parfitt's dogs, etc, you'll want to invest in his tool that chamfers the edge of the dog holes so the Parf Dogs will fit flush. He also sells a reamer, which comes in handy if you get any obstructions in the holes. It'll ream the walls without the risk of altering the hole itself.

I thought the Woodpeck jig looked cheesy the first time I saw it. Maybe they figured folks would be so excited to buy a Woodpecker product for under $400 that they'd jump on it. And it's not even red!!


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## Jerroni (Jun 1, 2018)

Good discussion. Best way to get 20 mm holes is with a 20 mm boring bit. However, it's not so easy, even with a bushing and a clever jig to get regular and square 96 mm spacing in harder or thicker materials. Parf system is a fine way to go, but there's also some limitations with this route, too. Requires predrilling, harder drilling in hardwood or thicker materials, time-consuming. Good way to go for mdf and a custom layout, though - and the bugs of the system seem to be worked out.

On a philosophical side - isn't it a bit crazy how much we are geared for perfection, but not wanting to practice?

The point I made above is that the woodpecker jig is a fine alternative, but you need to practice and check things out if you want tighter tolerances. I've gotten very good results - such that I can lay down a hole surface on my Festool mft and the dog holes align (20 mm bench dogs fit in both surfaces without slop). Can't say that it worked on my first try, though!

The woodpecker jig gives you the option of 3/4" or 20mm system. You get two guide bushings and some precision dogs, too. Predrilling and clamping the jig along a straight edge helps a lot - to reduce 'walking' of the bit or jig movement during cutting. The system assumes you have a plunge router and a a good 1/2" bit - but it doesn't guarantee perfection.


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## MinnesotaMarty (Jan 25, 2015)

Hey guys thanks for all the replies. The reason I posted the topic because I knew the Lumberjocks "Brain trust" would lay out all the details I didn't consider. I think both systems will get you (me) where I need to get to. I am a math guy and I trust the geometry of the Parf Guide system. Having watched several videos on the system I am confident I can get it as close to CNC that I need. So, I am going to get the Parf Guide II. I have several Woodpeckers tools and use them alot. So. this is not a Woodpeckers slam. I think they are a good company and will continue to purchase things from them, just not this time.

I am going to practice on a small bench that I use alot and that needs a new top. I have a nice Woodcraft gift card from my neighbor for helping him with his deck.

thanks, Marty


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## HowardAppel (Feb 3, 2010)

I have one quick question for the brain trust-does anyone use either the Parf or the Woodpecker for anything other than laying out the dog holes/t-tracks?


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## xedos (Apr 25, 2020)

Predrilling and time consuming kinda go hand in hand. The rest of your limitations apply to the WP jig too.

- Harder to make holes in hardwood no matter the system you use. 
- WP is time consuming too. 
- Can't bore as deep with std. WP jig either. Might find a really long spiral bit , I haven't checked. $$$$ if you do. 
If your top is thicker than 3/4" - you can't use the L-clamps in the holes. Chamfering the holes is only necessary for a few versions of Parf dogs. Not required for other makes and models.

WP has no dust collection, your router may provide some - or not.


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## aung (12 mo ago)

> I looked at both, watched a lot of video s and landed on the latest Parf system. I came to the same conclusion that you can t go wrong with a 3,4,5 triangle. I also like the hole drilling system. I have the Festool MFT/3 and was thinking that I would be replacing tops every year or so and perhaps build some extensions for the current one. Well 6 months later the Parf system box sits on my workbench unopened. Due to some medical issues I dialed my woodworking way back and based on progress don t see myself getting back into very much, at least not doing things that requiring standing, bending, or reaching. I ll give you a good deal on it if you are interested. I ll send you a message.
> 
> - northwoodsman


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## aung (12 mo ago)

do you still have the parf guide system for sale?


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

> I have one quick question for the brain trust-does anyone use either the Parf or the Woodpecker for anything other than laying out the dog holes/t-tracks?
> 
> - HowardAppel


Exactly. $240 sitting on a shelf 99% of its life does not appeal to me. I want to build one, I've looked into various other options such as the Dominofix, Woodrave, Trend, but as mentioned, the issue is repeated registrations adding up to an error.

Personally, I think I would buy a small MFT top and use it as a pattern.

I wish Woodcraft would start renting things like this out.


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## gtrgeo (Mar 22, 2017)

I started to go down the path thinking I needed a MFT type table when I first started using a track saw. In the end I believe it would only be used for accurate cross cuts. Honestly, I have a table saw sled, a miter saw, and a radial arm saw that can accomplish most widths I would need. Some careful measuring and using a 12" speed square against my track during set up has been working just fine for longer cross cuts. One of these days I will probably splurge on a TSO square.

Unless you need to be able to set up to cut square anywhere on the table, I do not see why something like this would not be sufficient. Possibly adding a section of track with a flip stop for repeat cuts. Otherwise the grid of holes would be mostly used for clamping and really does not necessarily need to be accurate. Also, it seems all of the holes would be a liability for hardware if used as an assembly table.

While I can afford the Parf Jig, I agree with Robert's assessment and have trouble justifying having one after I had made a grid top.


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

> I wish Woodcraft would start renting things like this out.


WARNING: THREAD HIJACK IN PROGRESS
Better idea: a cooperative that purchases and lends/rents this kind of product to it's members. There are quite a few things that meet this criteria. For example, a really good table saw miter slot alignment jig, a dust particle counter, a real reference square. It could extend to tools that you just don't use a lot. Think of a cross dowel jig, a 3" Forstner bit or a vacuum bag setup. There is a way to request and schedule it. You have to pay for shipping, and something to cover maintenance. Probably some kind of use fee to normalize heavy users from light users. I often wish I could have a way to get seldom used tools for a short time. Expecting the numbers to work for single store probably wouldn't work but a nationwide coop (with shipping costs, to be fair) probably would. It could have a yearly fee that went to purchase new things with a vote of members to decide which ones.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

I haven't read all the comments so I hope I'm not repeating any good advice and unintentionally exposing myself to a pissing contest.

I had both and am now the proud owner of just the UJK Mk.II... I originally bought the Mk.I, but a gift offering by SWMBO resulted in me placing an order for Mk.II. Though nothing wrong with the Mk.I, I found that the Mk.II is a tad more user friendly but they are both as accurate if you RTFM, do what it says and not what you think is a better/quicker/easier way.

One good thing about the *Woodpecker* is that it lets you make 3/4" dog holes (as well as the 20mm) if you are unfortunate enough to follow the *imperial* regime. Another advantage of this jig is that it lets you do multiple holes with each jig placement… the UJK will only permit one hole only before moving.
The *'pecker* uses guide bushings to make the holes which should be no issue if your template follower is perfectly centered and/or you have the router oriented at the same angle for the entire hole routing operation. Just minor deviations can toss the hole placement out which finishes up being percolated down the process. Now this could be classified as a user error, but being easily made, and enough times, I demoted my *"favor"* for this jig.

Not that the UJK is without faults. As mentioned above, you can only do one hole at a time and without a backing media, the forstner bit can break out if you force the bit… this is not an issue but it can look unsightly if you crawl under the table and look up. The jig comes with a TCT bit and the wings tend do cut little circles out that could hinder progress especially if cutting out of ply… that's where the "breakout force" originates.

Nevertheless, the *Mk.II* is my preference and I have passed on the *'pecker* to a less discerning owner at a generous shekel discount, for him (not me).

*PS.* Another nice thing I found about the UKJ, though I can't make the same comparisson as I no longer have the *'pecker*, is that with the MFT tabletop layout, I can attach other jigs unobtrusively using the TSO dogs...


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