# Major issues with Minwax poly



## AAANDRRREW (Mar 11, 2015)

Hi All,
New to the woodworking game. I built a nice red oak tv stand. Some ply, some solid. Sanded nicely with 120 grit RO sander. Went to Hallman Lindsey for stain. They mixed the color that the GF wanted. Told me to wipe it on. The shoot it with a thin coat of aersol poly. Then gel stain it. Then poly it as the instructions on the can say… OK…seems odd to me to poly before a gel stain, but these guys are pros at this….

Anyway, everything look awesome until I started with the brush on poly. I cleaned the wood very well with a tack cloth (not rag w/ spirits). Put first coat on, looked fine. Used natural bristle Wooster brush. Thought I was being careful about air bubbles. (I did this in my finished family room in basement so dust shouldn't have been an issue). After the first coat, I noticed a lot of little specks of either grit or bubbles in the finish. After I got over being pissed off, I sanded with 220 grit like the can said to. I quickly realized you cannot sand a whole lot without going right through the finish. Did my best and did a second coat. Looks even worse now. I'm rather upset because everything look great until I did this poly. I googled how to apply poly and there are 101 different ppl with 101 different methods.

A friend told me to rub it down with steel wool between coats. Another said wet sand with 600 grit. Anotehr said don't sand. Another said to wet sand at the end only and then use automotive rubbing compound. what is the best way for a guy without a air compressor fed sprayer to poly his creations and get a good looking blemish free surface? - BTW, its polyuerethane, satin.


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## mcomisar (Oct 9, 2012)

I typically thin the poly 50% with mineral spirits and wipe it on. Its much easier to control than brushing. The wood whisperer has a good video on it.

Not sure about the poly before the gel stain. I'm far from a finishing expert, but I dont think it would be a problem since the gel stain pigments just sit on top anyway and should bind to the poly as long as you sanded with 220 first . That said, not sure what any benefit of doing that would be either…


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## bbasiaga (Dec 8, 2012)

Thin it maybe 25% with mineral spirits or naphtha and wipe it on with a rag. Once I tried wipe on poly, I have not gone back to brush on. If you want a really thick finish this way you will need extra coats (since its diluted) but after about 3 coats the surface is sealed pretty darn good. Some people think they need 10 coats but I can't imagine that.

I'm sure this is in the 101 methods you have seen already. Also, I was always told you HAVE to sand between coats of poly. Since it sets up as a film and once set is non-soluble, you need the sanding scratches to make sure the two layers stick together.

-Brian


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## bbasiaga (Dec 8, 2012)

Marshall's post came in while I was typing mine…I will have to try further dilution one of these times.

-Brian


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Practice on scrap first, kinda of late now, maybe next time and

good luck.


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## blockhead (May 5, 2009)

I've had some issues with finishing in the past using Minwax products. I shot them an email and within 24 hours they replied and got me back on track. Maybe try contacting them…


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## Rick_from_Baileigh (Mar 31, 2015)

You definitely got a lot of advise, and as you found out one person's formula may not work for you. I would do my best to sand it out and start over. Follow the original instructions, but thin out the poly so it self levels and flows easier. The gel stain after a layer of poly would be considered a glazing technique and it will help give you a nice even look. A light 220 sanding after each layer makes each layer bond. After the gel stain dries for 24 hours, then use a wipe on poly or a wiping varnish (which includes urethane) building it up with at least 3 coats will you give you a great looking finish. Good Luck !


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## Earlextech (Jan 13, 2011)

1 - Maybe I missed it, but, is the poly waterborne or solvent based?
2 - Is it two different stains or the same stain applied twice?
3 - One of the biggest problems people have with finishing is that they mix too many different chemicals together. Stain, then poly, then different stain, then poly?!? Asking for a problem in my opinion.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

The easiest and most foolproof method is to use the wiping technique explained earlier (thin varnish 1-1 with MS, and wipe on). But where are you at now? Has the stain been damaged or you just need a smooth top coat?


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## AAANDRRREW (Mar 11, 2015)

The poly is solvent based. I did not dilute it. I stained the wood with two stains mixed (identical, but different shades). Sprayed with aersol poly. Gel stained. 1st coat of brush on poly. Tried to sand with 220, but I could hardly sand it without biting right through the poly and gel stain. I've done some auto body work before, and this was sooooooo touchy. I even checked my sandpaper to make sure I didn't get 120 by accident. So, after I tiptoed around sanding everything, I wiped it down with a dry wipedown cloth, then put the second coat on. This one looked worse in regards to dust/bubbles. They are very small specks, so I can't tell if its dirt or bubbles.

I ended up assembling the tv stand because we kind of needed it. It's not super noticeable and the gf loves it, but I'd like to figure out what in the world to do next time so its a cleaner finish. I would have liked to sand it more, but I just could not. After I bit through the finish in a hidden spot I had to just BARELY sand it.

I see some ppl use a 3m pad to get the grit out - I might go grab a scrap piece and run it through the same process and 3m pad it and see how it looks. Really gunshy to try it on the stand because it's an apothecary type stand with 24 7×7 fake drawer fronts on it and I'd cry if I screwed one of them up and had to start over.


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## AAANDRRREW (Mar 11, 2015)

Some photos. if you look close you can see the crap in the finish. Something just doesn't seem right with the "lightly sand with 220 grit". I wetsand aluminum to a mirror finish all the time on my motorcycle. This was like drag the paper across it one, maybe two, 3 your getting brave now times with only enough pressure on the paper to keep it sliding. If you look at the main cabinet pic, dead center face frame on top - you'll see where my partner sanded a little too much and went right now through the 2 coats of poly and stain to the wood. I was able to touch it up thank god. BTW - I know some things look a little primitive, but it's my first go around.


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

One question. When you were sanding between coats, did you hand sand or power sand? As I understand it, you are trying to lightly abrade the surface so that the next coat has something to grab onto.

I've had good success with the 50/50 diluted wiping formula, but have decided to switch to Rustoleum Ultimate Polyurethane. Much easier to work with and it's a water based solution.


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## AAANDRRREW (Mar 11, 2015)

By hand. no block. I'd think if I did it by power sander I'd really be a sad camper.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

I've had issues with Minwax stain before, but not their polyurethane. Was it semi-gloss, flat or something else? The farther away you get from gloss, the more crap they put in the mixture to make it less shiny. I've seen it in the bottom of a can before, but though against using it. The last picture you posted sure looks like bigger chunks of something that I certainly wouldn't expect to find in a can of poly. I did once have issues with Old Masters and the paint from the lip of the can started flaking and ended up in the can, fortunately, only one small speck made it onto the project I was working on and it was in a non visible area so I left it.


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## AAANDRRREW (Mar 11, 2015)

It was satin. I did not notice anything in the can. Frustrating part is the thing was built and sanded in the garage. we then moved everything indoors in my family room to prevent dust and debris.

I kind of have my doubts they are bubbles…it looks like I dropped my brush in my lawn and then picked it up and kept using it.


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## bc4393 (Apr 10, 2015)

Poly is tricky and I'm by no means an expert but some things I learned in the couple projects I used it on. Thin coats and a lot of em! I dont think I'd brush it on for fear of mopping too much on the wood. Your goal is to just make it wet and its a slow road to being done. Make a ball of cotton from a shirt to apply. Thinning with ms would probably help like others have said but I use it right from the can. Mix it like crazy before you use it and while you use it. The satin especially. You have to get the crap off the bottom for the satin effect. The gloss flows a lot better and is easy to work with in my opinion. I like using it 10 times better than the satin. You could always build the finish with gloss and do one final top coat of satin for the same effect. I also only sand to get rid of surface impurities with 320. Sanding for bonding seems like overkill but this is just one guy talking. I have put 10 coats on a box without doing that and it worked just fine. I'd be interested to see what people are saying the constant sanding prevents because I have yet to experience it. Make sure the coats dry completely in between. Depends on your humidity level and thickness it could take a day or 2. I know it says you can slap on successive coats quickly but not in my experience and humidity level. It neber hurts to wait extra. Patience is key. If you put in a coat and it gets gummy your previous coat isn't dry yet. All that said my last larger piece I went with deft spray for my finish. Goes on evenly on larger surfaces and your not fighting the drying time, get inside corners easily etc. Sorry I dont have any advice salvaging what you have but for the future maybe this will help. Maybe someone else here will give you the golden nugget to fix your situation. My dad always told me test your complete finish on scrap first. It burns a lot of time waiting for each coat to dry but can save you a lot of headache. :/


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## daddywoofdawg (Feb 1, 2014)

Is that wood or veneer?
Get some w/d 600 grit if your just putting tooth on the finish.that way you have to try to sand though the finish. the bubbles look more like the wood bubbling than the finish,like that spot shown didn't get sanded down.and the paper can leave grit behind embedded in the wood,which is another advantage to sanding finer and finer each grit can pull out larger grit.


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## daddywoofdawg (Feb 1, 2014)

Is that wood or veneer?
Get some w/d 600 grit if your just putting tooth on the finish.that way you have to try to sand though the finish. the bubbles look more like the wood bubbling than the finish,like that spot shown didn't get sanded down.and the paper can leave grit behind embedded in the wood,which is another advantage to sanding finer and finer each grit can pull out larger grit.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I got to agree with just about everyone else here. I've used Miniwax fast dry poly gloss with great results. I've been using a piece of Polyester fabric folded a couple of times anywhere from 3" to 6" inside a piece of women's pantyhose. Yeah, I know sounds kinda weird but it doesn't leave any lint and can be used like a squeege to lay out a flat coat with very little air bubbling. The other thing about that poly is that it is self leveling and that can be a real PITA (Pain in the A$$). Best of luck!!


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## AAANDRRREW (Mar 11, 2015)

The parts that I had the biggest issue with was all the 7×7 drawer fronts, which is solid red oak. The plywood doors weren't as bad, but it was there. The vertical walls of the cabinet though were ok…weird

Does anyone think its odd that I could not hardly sand at all and I'd go right through the finish and even start to take some stain off?


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## bobasaurus (Sep 6, 2009)

Poly tends to bubble and sag/drip unless you apply it very thin. Also, make sure the stain you applied has the same base as your poly (oil-based in your situation).


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

I find poly difficult to work with. The long dry time is further upsetting to me, it invites all sort of dust and junk to settle on your project. 
That said from the photos posted it looks as though you did not get your material sanded well enough. Some of the bumps appear to be wood. Further I would sand to at least 150 or preferably 180.
To address your finish choice LACQUER. It dries very fast. I often get five or more coats in a single day. I will lay down two or three THIN coats and then lightly sand it down with 320 or 400. You can hear and feel when enough has been taken off. Then two or three more coats. I normally use satin Deft Lacquer, that I purchase in a can and spray with a cheap spray rig but the rattle can does just as good. 
Poly has its place in the shop, but for most furniture the time involved as most coats need to to cure for an entire day does not seem to me worth the added protection poly does provide. Table tops and floors benefit from poly but lacquer does an admirable job especially for your project.


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## AAANDRRREW (Mar 11, 2015)

the sanding the wood bums me out - I was told by a friend and part time cabinet guy just sand it well with 120. those little drawer fronts I sanded the heck outta with my RO and 120. I was more shy about the plywood though seeing as the veneer is SO thin.


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

I must be missing something on the process. Lets see if I can recap what you did. Was it:

Sand to 120 grit
Applied a gel stain
Sprayed a thin coat of (aerosol?) poly
Applied gel stain (again?)
Cleaned with tack cloth
Brushed on poly (coat 1) with natural bristle brush
Hand sanded with 220 grit
Cleaned with tack cloth
Brushed on poly (coat 2) with natural bristle brush

I'm still learning myself but here are a few things I've learned and (now) do differently.

I usually sand my projects to 180 (hardwood) or 220 (softwood) grit before applying my first coat of anything.
A thin sealer coat is usually recommended if the wood gets blotchy. Still not an expert on my end. 
When brushing, there are lots of tips and techniques to avoid overloading the brush. Do a final light pass with just the tip of the brush to layer off the finish before it starts to tack up
When abrading the surface for subsequent coats, don't overdo it. I use 320 grit at the max. Gently do 1-3 passes is probably all you need. Be sure to clean it off again.

Finally, the product and method are both things worth considering. I've had success brushing with General Finishes Arm-r-Seal and Rustoleum Ultimate Polyurethane. Both are very good products. With Minwax, I've kinda given up on brushing it as the same technique yields poorer results. I have had success with a diluted 50/50 wiping approach.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Major issue here is that you used MinWax. Just my opinion, but that stuff is just that. STUFF!
Get a quality dye or a TransTint coloring agent. Stains are a different breed, and require good surface prep, wipe on, wipe off 'till ya get the correct color.
I will surface prep with a shellac sealer, then "sneak up" on the desired color with a dye. Let the surface cure.
Finish is just that. FINISH. Choose what ya will, but poly is just a hard and wear-proof surface.
I only use it on surfaces that will be exposed the high wear.
Remember that stains have a high solid content, and can be worn away with sanding.
Dyes are a more penetrating coloring agent.
Not a slam by any means, just what I do.
Bill
Bill


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## AAANDRRREW (Mar 11, 2015)

You are close on the steps.
1. Sanded with 120 grit RO, both ply and hardwood
2. Vacuumed and used tack cloth
3. Wiped on regular oil based stain (Old Masters, mix of two different shades)
4. Wiped with tack cloth
5. Aerosol satin minwax poly
6. tack cloth
7. Gel stain
8. tack cloth
9. First coat brush on minwax satin poly. Natural brush, un-diluted (results weren't too too bad)
10. Sanded by hand with 220 (barely due to fear of taking it to the wood)
11. tack cloth
12. second coat of brushed on poly
13. results as seen in photo

A friend here recommended taking one of the drawer fronts off and trying either we sanding or 3m fine pad on the backside, since both sides are polyed and seeing how it looks.


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## AAANDRRREW (Mar 11, 2015)

Bill,
Maybe I mis-understood you, but I think you may think I used Minwax stain - I didn't, I used Old Master from Hallman Lindsey. The poly I used was minwax.


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## Earlextech (Jan 13, 2011)

Based on the pictures its not fisheye, bubbles or orange peel. 
My finishing process for this project would be - 
1. Sand to 220/end-grain to 320/blow off dust
2. Spray stain
3. Spray coat of gloss poly
4. Sand to 220/blow off dust
5. To add depth, mix stain in with gloss poly and spray a coat
6. Sand to 220/blow of dust
7. Spray final coat of satin poly

I avoid tack cloths, they are nothing but trouble. Also, if you're sanding through the finish that easily, you're not applying enough finish per coat. And lastly, in your pictures it doesn't look like a chemical issue, it looks like some "stuff" got in the finish.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

I've used minwax poly for years and never had a problem… but I make my own wipe-on exclusively (50/50 mix with mineral spirits - and stay away from that new low-voc stuff that is water based). Also makes a good pre-stain sanding sealer (one wipe on coat, let dry, then stain). Wipe it on, wait 30 minutes or so for it to dry, wipe on another, and repeat for up to 3-6 coats then let dry over night. The next day, hit it with a light sanding (320 or 400 grit) and do it all over again. It takes about 3 coats of wipe on to equal one brushed on coat, so it takes a bit longer, but the results are excellent.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: Never used anything but gloss either. If I want a satin or matte finish, I'll apply as usual and then hit it with a light (600 grit) sanding or steel wool to get the desired sheen. It's a very versatile process.


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

AAANDRRREW, if you want to go with the Minwax poly you have, the going trend in the recommendations is to strip down and apply (wipe-on) with a 50/50 dilution. Another argument for a wipe-on formula. There is never a true dust-free environment and the interior of a house may not necessarily be as dust free as you think. Thinner coats dries faster and will lessen the chance material being embedded into your finish. Spraying has it's own learning curve and a start-up cost if you don't have the equipment.


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

I find wiping it on with a rag so much better, I use the minwax wiping poly though.


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## AAANDRRREW (Mar 11, 2015)

Thanks for all your input guys. I'm gonna experiement a bit tonight with my stains/poly and a piece of scrap I have left over.

I need to figure out where I went wrong or at least figure out how to make it look decent. So disheartening when you put so much effort into making something look great building it, then to have it look like crap.

An experienced friend of mine told me polying is about the easiest thing to do and that I must be missing the boat somewhere along the way.


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## GregD (Oct 24, 2009)

> - AAANDRRREW


My guess is that this is crud from either the can of finish or the brush. Probably the brush.

It seems to me that I used to have some trouble with poly, but I now find it very easy to apply. I prefer a good quality brush and a fast drying poly. I apply a wet but thin coat as quickly as possible and then walk away. Only sometimes do I sand between coats.

But I have developed a bit of a system for cleaning the brush while minimizing the volume of mineral spirits used. First I brush cardboard to get the brush as dry as possible. Then I pour on some "dirty" mineral spirits on the bristles, work them a bit, and again brush cardboard to get the brush as dry as possible. I do this 2 or 3 times. Then I wash the brush in a small jar of "dirty" mineral spirits. Again I brush cardboard until the brush is dry. At this point I clean the bristles with a paper towel and clean mineral spirits to remove any gunk I can find from the "dirty" mineral spirits. When the brush looks real clean I again brush cardboard to dry it and leave it to soak it in a small jar of clean mineral spirits almost up to the ferrule. The jar of dirty mineral spirits is sealed up.

When it is time for the next coat of finish I often find that some crud has separated out of the dirty mineral spirits and onto the jar. This I suspect is the crud that is messing up your finish. The mineral spirits can usually be decanted into another jar and will work well for the early stages of brush cleaning the next time; the crud will usually wipe out with a paper towel. When I pull the brush from the mineral spirits I carefully wipe down the bristles with a paper towel looking for any crud that may have separated out. I will usually finish by wetting the bristles with mineral spirits fresh from the can and then brushing cardboard until the brush is dry (I do this process twice I think). After the jar of "clean" mineral spirits has been used to soak the brush after 1 or 2 coats it starts becoming "dirty" in that this crud is separating out of it.

While this brush cleaning process sounds like a big hassle, it has become "muscle memory"; I just do it automatically and it is no big deal so long as I have 2 or 3 jars to work with and a large piece of scrap cardboard. The best jars to use are from Newman's Own salsa; they are about perfect for a 2" angled brush which is my weapon of choice. Hell-on-the-Red" salsa jars are almost as good.


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## bc4393 (Apr 10, 2015)

I'd go back to your friend and ask him specifically if he said 120 or 220 before stain. I'm not following that one. I had to read you posting it multiple times before that really sunk in. I dont recall any reading or advice that told me to sand that course before applying a finish. I'm interested to hear the reason behind that one…


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

You have gotten a lot of good advice above. I will add my endorsement for wiping on a poly/ms mixture (I use 2:1 ratio). The main reason I commented is to point out that the aerosol cans of poly lay down a VERY small amount of materiel. I usually use 320-400 grit Abranet between coats only when visable or touchable nibs are present.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

Marshal,

Just so you know that piece is really handsome and deserves a fine finish. You keep persevering and do it right.
In the end you will be satisfied and proud of your effort. 
My Best,
Bob


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

I have never sanded thru stain like that. I find it odd that it was that easy to sand thru the poly and so easily remove the stain right down to bare wood. I would suspect that stain you used as the problem. I have read that if you put down too much stain and don't wipe enough back off that it won't dry/cure correctly.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

With some woods I will use a sanding sealer before stain but with oak I can get an even stain without it. There are times that when I use a sealer I have trouble getting the deep color I want.

Typically, this is what I do….
Sand to a least 220 and some parts to 320
Brush on 2 coats of poly sanding with 220 between coats
I use foam brushes for poly and work well for me and I do not have to clean them.
Sand to 320 before a wipe on coat of poly 
Do the same with another coat of wipe on

I use Minwax and have no issues.

For wipe on, I buy the ready to use version. I have found you need to be very careful buying mineral spirits as it is not always what you expect if you are making your own wipe on poly.

Finishing a project is not easy and is a skill to learn and find what works for you

Good Luck


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## bbasiaga (Dec 8, 2012)

> I d go back to your friend and ask him specifically if he said 120 or 220 before stain. I m not following that one. I had to read you posting it multiple times before that really sunk in. I dont recall any reading or advice that told me to sand that course before applying a finish. I m interested to hear the reason behind that one…
> 
> - bc4393


General Finishes recommends the following
https://generalfinishes.com/retail-products/finishing-design-center/preparation-sanding

"Sanding preparation

We cannot stress enough that you must have a strong base of proper sanding to achieve the perfect finish!! See our sanding tutorial below if you want more details. All surfaces should be clean and free from all dirt and oils. Prep sanding is done with progressively finer grits. Do NOT start sanding with very fine sandpaper on unfinished wood. Prepare the surface by using medium paper first, and then proceed to finer grades. On most raw woods, start sanding in the direction of the grain using a #120-150 grit paper before staining and work up to #220 grit paper.

sandpaper image 
Soft woods such as pine and alder: start with #120 and finish with no finer than #220 (for water base stains) and 180 grit for oil base stains.
Hardwoods such as maple and oak: start with #120 and finish-sand no finer than #180 (for water base stains) and #150 grit for oil base stains.
Do not over sandor you may seal the wood so much that it will not take a finish. End-grains (areas where the wood has been cut against the grain), such as the front side of a table, tend to soak up more stain than other surfaces. Give end-grain areas an additional sanding to control the absorption of stain."

I'm trying this on a current project. Sand to 150, danish oil, two light coats of Arm-R-Seal. We'll see how it goes.

-Brian


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

AAANDRRREW, you are forgiven.  I did not read correctly.
Bill


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## Squash (Jan 17, 2015)

I'm not a big fan of poly. Here's my 3 cents worth. Next project consider using a brush on/spray on lacquer like Deft. Lacquer is easier to use, quick dry, more forgiving and much easier to repair. Do your surface prep, clean, stain and brush 1st coat on as a sealer coat or use a sanding sealer. Scuff sand with 220 - 280 grit, clean and add 1st finish coat. Assess the finish build and likely add another finish coat or two. Once dry smear a little mineral spirits on surface and stroke with 400-600 wet/dry paper (with the grain) until it starts turning to a light syrup. Stop, clean. Then dilute liquid dish soap with water and smear on surface and stroke with "0000" steel wool (always with the grain). Watch the surface as you go to achieve a consistent look. Wipe clean and ready for the bragging rights.


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## aurora (Jun 30, 2009)

1-sand the piece to remove all the junk in the finish. there are a variety of suspect sources, but on open grain woods the particulates can hide in the open grains and when you brush on a thick coat of unthinned poly, the particulates get suspended in coating and cant be seen untill the solvent flashes off.
2-fine sand
3-dust cloth wipe, then solvent wipe the surface with same solvent you are thinning with. let surface dry. 
4-cut your poly as the others jocks above recommend, 25 or 50% will both work, i go approximately 33% depending on the temperature of the day. hot days require greater quantity of slower evaporating solvents, or if you are just using mineral spirits add a bit more on hot days if the finish dries out before you have a chance to polish.
5-wipe on heavy(a bit excessive) to let it soak in, then wipe off excess. now rub your ass off to polish it to an almost dry state. 
6-let it dry 24 hours. 
7-? sand or no? i generally dont resand unless the piece picked up dust, and it is within a 24 hour period. wiping with the solvent reactivates the surface so you generally get a good bond. so if your surface looks particulate free, just clean, solvent wipe and re-apply a coating and polish. first few coats really get absorbed by the wood, but after a few the wood stops absorbing and the finish will build up, albeit slooooowly. it will take quite awhile to fill the open grain in oak, but be patient, and keep on rubbing!

good luck


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## Shadowrider (Feb 2, 2015)

It seems you don't have a finish problem per se, but have dust and stuff getting into the topcoat somehow. Couple of things.

I use the dark red 3M scotchbrite pads or wet-r-dry sandpaper (usually scotchbrite). That grade is around a 400 grit. You only sand enough to remove the dust nibs and "knock the sheen down" to give the next coat something to hang onto.

Lately I've discovered General Finishes waterbourne urethane finishes. The are just pure awesome. I put them on unthinned with a cheap foam brush and they always "lay down" perfectly. Bigger projects will get sprayed. I'm refinishing and using their Endura-Var on all my kitchen cabinets. One thing about them is that they appear to be too thick and won't level out leaving brush marks. They do and very nicely at that. From what I've seen so far I don't know that you can leave brush marks with them. It's that good. When you put it on you will have a good thick coat, but when it dries you will see almost no film build at all. The Endura-Var has an amber tint to mimic old school oil finishes, but they make one that is dead clear too. These are going to be my goto topcoats unless I use an oil like tung or boiled linseed. I can get several coats a day with these, they dry dust free and dry to touch in about 10-15 minutes which might help with your issue and you can recoat in 4 hours. I'm not affiliated with GF, I just really like their stuff. Good luck.


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## AAANDRRREW (Mar 11, 2015)

Hi Fellas.
Kind of busy weekend and didn't get much woodworking time, but I did have time to grab some 3m extra fine pads. I didn't use the sander but did it by hand lightly to see the results. I had to wait for the gf to leave to try this due to getting thrown out of the house, so I didn't have much time lol. It seems like the pad did take some of the crud out of the poly, but it left a somewhat white haze in the poly from the scratches. I cleaned the wood up some with a damp rag then tried some turtle wax rubbing compound (the green can, not the red, which I think is the rougher stuff) and it came back a little bit, but I can tell it's a little hazy/white compared to the others, but its very subtle.

Also, I think I found the source of this crud. Now, some of it is probably just from the air and can't be helped, but after I did the first brush on coat I went into the garage, cleaned the brush with clean mineral spirits in a clean tub, but then just by habit, grabbed one of those red shop rags that you can get from a uniform service to dry the brush. The rag was clean, but it was sitting in a pile of rags in my garage for god knows how long - I bet I embedded crap into my brush… *d'oh!*


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## pdxrealtor (Jan 18, 2015)

*I avoid tack cloths, they are nothing but trouble.*

^^ This.

What kind of tack cloth did you use? The home depot brand is known to be nothing but problems. jI had your exact experience using a minwax poly/stain mix (I forget what they call that blend, but it comes in a can).


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

*I cleaned the wood up some with a damp rag then tried some turtle wax rubbing compound (the green can, not the red, which I think is the rougher stuff) and it came back a little bit, but I can tell it's a little hazy/white compared to the others, but its very subtle.*

Wow… rubbing compound? The scratches/haze would have gone away as soon as you put down another coat of poly.

Cheers,
Brad


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## AAANDRRREW (Mar 11, 2015)

HD brand tack cloth….

Well, I saw several posts/sites about using the 3m pad to achieve the finish without any more poly or anything…also saw quite a few using rubbing compound. Thought Id give it a try.


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## nerdbot (Sep 3, 2014)

Not much to add to what everyone else has already said re: using a wiping varnish. I struggled with finishing too until I learned about wiping varnish. Because of how quickly it dries where I live, I don't have a huge problem with dust settling in the finish. Every 2-3 coats of 2:1 thinned wiping varnish, I sand the surface essentially with brown paper bags - I get it on a roll and use it to cover my table during glue-ups - which is enough to knock off the dust nibs. I've been really happy with the results.


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## dbmguy (Jan 31, 2014)

> Also, I think I found the source of this crud. Now, some of it is probably just from the air and can t be helped, but after I did the first brush on coat I went into the garage, cleaned the brush with clean mineral spirits in a clean tub, but then just by habit, grabbed one of those red shop rags that you can get from a uniform service to dry the brush. The rag was clean, but it was sitting in a pile of rags in my garage for god knows how long - I bet I embedded crap into my brush… *d oh!*
> 
> - AAANDRRREW


I think you are absolutely correct in this statement. I've been brushing on Minwax Fast-Drying Poly for many years with excellent results. Clean brushes are certainly a big factor (along with others) in the finish. Always pour your mineral spirits into a clean container. I use a glass soup bowl - and keep it clean also. I dip/swab the brush a few times, sling the poly out of the bristles (outdoors of course). Then, discard the spirits and pour in new/clean spirits. I then just keep dipping the brush in the clean spirits and slinging out the excess and slapping the brush bristles up and down on the edge of my hand. Repeat this until the brush is clean and reasonably dry. Never wipe the brush dry with a rag. To let the brush dry over night, I wrap the bristles in a clean paper towel sheet - store the brushes in the factory sheath and keep them in a clean place. I use Purdy natural bristle brushes - some are now 15 - 20 years old and still in good shape.

On application: between coats (of poly), I use 400 grit on a circular ROS for the larger flat surfaces - hit lightly and quickly. Then, I completely dull/rub out the surfaces and edges with 0000 steel wool. Easy to do without going through the poly layer. Blow the crud off with compressed air, tack cloth it very thoroughly right before you apply the next coat of poly. If I have multiple pieces, I tack each off just before I apply poly. I don't use the poly out of the can; I pour what I need into a clean glass bowl. I have a large kitchen in my house and usually do the application there - shut off the HVAC and mop the floors first so it (HVAC) and I don't stir up dust. My finish usually comes out glassy smooth. You will still get some nibs here and there; but, that is what I've always liked about the Minwax Fast-Drying Poly (as opposed to other stuff I've used) - it minimizes (Shrinks down) the nibs when it drys. Of course, the more experience you have, the easier it all gets. Hope this might help in some way.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

I think the gel stain should of been your top coat it offers much more protection.


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## AAANDRRREW (Mar 11, 2015)

Hi all-
Been a while since I asked you all about poly and the issues I have been having. I've done a few more projects since I last posted this question, all of them I have either painted or spray with aerosol poly (they were small projects).

Anyway, I had to bite the bullet here recently. I had two larger projects, a ruler to hang on the wall to measure my sons height and a floor lamp for the wife. Anyway, I took my old can of poly (the one I used earlier in this thread) and a little can of acrylic poly (also minwax). I did some testing of each on a piece of scrap that I had stained. I did both products side by side, with foam brushes. Once again, the specs showed up in the regular poly. THe acrylic was fine.

Long story short, I threw the can of poly away - pretty sure it's got crap in it. Got myself a new can, thinned it about 1 part MS and 3 parts poly and wiped it on. WOW is all I can say. IT LOOKS AWESOME. Goes on super super easy, dries fast, looks great, and it's pretty simple. The only question I got is what do you poly wiper guys do for inside corners and odd patterns? I did have a little trouble working it into inside corners without leaving bubbles or wipe marks going the wrong direction.


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## martyoc (Nov 21, 2015)

I've used Minwax solvent based polyurethane varnish on quite a few hardwood projects with good results. I sand the wood to 220 and clean the surface to minimize dust before starting to apply the finish. The first coat is either shellac or poly thinned 1:1 with mineral spirits. After about 4-5 hours, I sand the coat with 320 grit on a block and only use the weight of the block for pressure. Don't apply any more pressure than absolutely needed. Then I wipe on a second and third coat of poly thinned roughly 2:1 or 3:1 using a soft, clean cotton rag strip. I wait about 4-6 hours between coats. I only sand if my fingers feel slight roughness in the finish, using 320 or 400 grit. I usually put on 5 or 6 coats so the finish is durable, and sand again prior to the final coat. Then I let it dry for several days before using the piece. Altho the finished piece can be handled safely, the finish doesn't fully harden for quite some time. I often apply finish to a projects pieces before assembling if its practical and usually get a better overall finish that way.


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