# Welding nails together



## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

I know this isnt really a woodworking question but its sorta related.

I want to weld nails together. Over the last 30 years I have bought, acquired, been given old building to which I have salvaged the wood (reclaimed) and I have saved the old wrought iron, hand forged/hammered rectangular nails and I now have thousands of them.

I want to make a sculpture with them by welding.brazing. soldering them together.

Does any one know the least expensive method, without leaving big globs of molten iron where they get joined together.

Solder doesnt work.

is a mig, or tig, or stick welding ………….?

TYIA


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

You're going to need gas of some sort to make a clean weld without
much excess filler in it. That means mig or tig or oxy-acetylene.

I'd try brazing them. Brazing is like soldering but done at higher
temperatures and I'd bet most of the stuff you've seen made from
old nails is brazed.


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## tblank (Apr 8, 2010)

Mig, Tig, or Stick all will work, the wire feed is my choice but you can also use a torch and braze. I like a wire fed tig welder and it is quick and easy. A good welder is not cheap. Lincoln is my brand.


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## vinceuk (Oct 21, 2010)

I'd go with MIG clean welds, relatively easy to learn, reasonable cost wise (although fair outlay if thats all you use it for) and safe no flamable gasses


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## fussy (Jan 18, 2010)

What ever you use, you will have to control heat. Brazing on that small a piece will be difficult unless you let the piece cool a bit before adding a new piece. That will take time during which you'll burn gas which is expensive. Small mig would be better, but rusty, dirty nails will be tough for mig wire to stick; it's mostly for fabrication with new steel, not repair on dirty stuff. I'd say stick using a 7018 3/32" electrode which can be run as low as 25 amps ac or dc, but that's still a lot of current for something that small. I agree with Tblank on Lincoln; or Hobart. Check with welding suppliers for a very-low temp solder or brazing material and a really small torch setup. They should have the solution; it's their business.

Steve


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

3 opinions and no consensus

I've been looking at welding equipment, used and new and can afford to buy "1" kind. Not all three as I have yet to see the TIG< MIG<arc><STICK welder made like a shop smith cause they are sold separately. ………..only $$$$ for one choice and I dont want the wrong choice………..please, "wrong" is expensive.

I've experimented with a torch, cheapy CT stuff and I can easily heat the nail enough to twist and bend it into the shape I like, I just need to join the delicate (at times) joints,……..if that makes sense ?

If you could memorize every bone and muscle in the human body, and if you had enough nails, you could bend them and weld them together, and form a human body into different shapes and tasks……….I want to play, and I only have limited funds………….its not exactly like what TS should I buy, similar…….but not quite.

I know for sure, that there are "welders" and "fabricators" on this forum and being woodworkers, that even if you didnt know the answer you might have a friend that did, a son, a daughter. I sorta want to make a carving…….out of nails that I pulled, bought, and toiled for.PM if you like.

Please


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

stick so far

am I wasting my money, if I buy the "hobby" stuff, ……..new as its a one time deal, and I am a tad "isolated" which things even more expensive.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

A wire feed mig would be the answer for me. You can get a 110 volt mig for very little cash and they are dead simple to use. The tig has a much steeper learning curve and the cost is MUCH greater. That said, I will warn you that migs do NOT like rust, paint,dirt, grease. If you sand/grind/buff a tiny clean spot where you want to weld you will like the mig. I prefer the gas sheilded migs [can use straight co2 rather than argon mix] but the flux core is cheaper and requires more clean up of welds. I have made thousands of bridle bits with my 110 v Miller mig and it has been trouble free for many years. You asked for a definative answer and thats mine! Gas [ox/acetylene] have a steep learning curve and will not weld anything rusty at all. Stick welders are difficult to weld small parts unless you have a way to firmly clamp parts. Hope this helps.


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## Bearpie (Feb 19, 2010)

I was a welder in my professional life and now retired. I would say your best bet would be a small 150 mig that runs on 110 volts. you will need an inert gas with it. This set up would be the easiest to use. Tig would be the cleanest but you would require using both hands to weld and what would hold the nails while you weld? It would be too time consuming to use this method. With mig you would have to be sure your metal nails were clean and not greasy, rusty, dirty or galvanize coated (by all means do not use galvanized nails, the fumes from it will kill you or sicken you really bad, I know!!!!) Good luck with your project.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

very very old nails, certainly older then and b4 the day of galvanization

I wish I had a friend who was a welder and that friend lived near me.

We could experiment.

no consensus yet


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

must be frustrating for aspiring woodworkers,

to ask a question and get such a wide answer

maybe there is no right answer


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

Well you got the answer from a welder but I am not a mig welder so….. I can't disagree. I do have an oxy-acetaline set and think I could do it with that system and possibly not have to use any rod. I do plan to try it but it might be awhile before I get to it. To much stuff to do in teh wood working shop.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

I am an amateur welder

please keep that in mind

eh Grandpa……….would love it if you could find 5, to play.

I would love to avoid tanks of gas, between torches, tanks and gas………………an expensive route

dont mind spending it, just dont want to if I dont have to

hate to waste any ones time, …………………including mine : )


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## fussy (Jan 18, 2010)

Moron,

Here's the problem as I see it. You want to weld nails of various sizes (even big ones are small in the context of welding), that are old, dirty, and rusty, which make them impossible to braze or silver solder as those processes REQUIRE scrupously clean joints, but the rust, dirt, etc is part of the art you are trying to create. Mig similarly requires clean joints. Tig allows SOME leeway as to cleanliness, but not a lot, is more complicated, has a much steeper learning curve, and is way too expensive to consider for most of us to play around with until we get good. Stick (arc) welding can work, takes very little practice, sets up quickly and would not be affected by subsequent joints very close by as would brazing or silver soldering, and with the right welding material, is amazingly tolerant of rust, dirt, and other contaminants. It is also very inexpensive to start up.

Considering that you will not be welding ships together and do not need the finest Miller welder out there. You need small, cheap, (inexpensive in Canada; you guys do seem to have a better grasp of the Queen's English) and dependible. Check out the Harbor Freight 98870 120 volt arc welder. At around $120 it is not a bank buster, has rave reviews, and welding material is readily available and inexpensive (see, I'm learning). I suggest you try one, if you don't like it, they accept returns without question within 30 days which should give you ample time to decide. If you can't get it from HF in Canada, try someplace like Busy Bee. They may be higher priced, but still a reasonable alternative.

I'm really trying to help and I hope this does in some small way. Let us know how you progress. I'd like to see one of these.

Steve
PS Years ago, when I was in the business, a customer had a BEAUTIFUL bud vase on his desk that his Grandfather had welded by building up concentric rings of steel using a home-made arc welder (this was late '20's, early '30's). His welding material of choice? Coathangers! No flux of any kind. It was all he had, all he could afford, and he used the bud vase in lieu of an engagement ring. I guess it worked, because the recipient was his Grandmother. Keep at it. You'll figger it out.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

arc says "fussy"

next question

I dont want to burn my cornea, nor retinal nerve

is it worth spending the "loot" on the quick flick helmet, ………no "flash"


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

see, point, shoot

no blind spot helmets ?


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## fussy (Jan 18, 2010)

Moron,

A good auto-darkening helmet will protect your retinas for about $40 on sale-as they frequently are. If you try without a shield, you deserve what ever happens; none of it good. I welded a good bit for twenty years, off and on, and got flashed a couple times because I wasn't ready and auto darkening hadn't been developed yet. You can set up what you needfor under $200 and be on the way to success. Your big problem will be to stick a piece in place until it may be tacked. Thing to do, try to try out what you want to buy. Helmet, chip hammer brush gloves, sunblock, boots, leather apron (long) and you're set. Research welding material in your area and call on us to help.

EVERYONE WANTS TO HELP. hOPE WE CAN.

STEVE


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## mtenterprises (Jan 10, 2011)

IMO and it's only MO I'd go with a small oxy- acetylene set that way you will be able to bend twist solder braze and fusion weld small items. Here in the norteast where rusty cars abound I've seen guys braze/fusion weld rusty fenders and exhaust systems with only coat hangers and boraxo. There is a lot that can be done with oxy- acetylene that most welders of this time period don't know. I think you will be further ahead going this route and with a couple good oxy- acetylene welding manuals. Read books on welding processes first then make your decission remember the library has free books and most librarys will bring them in from other librarys for you. And, the thing I like is that they often have the older books with the really good information in them. Go to your local welding supply and explain what you want to do and they will show you your options and prices and give you the best advice. I have found that they, of course want to sell you things, but they want you to succeed in your project. Hey big industries ask them for help so you can too. And sometimes they will teach you how to do it. An addition, I have a jeweler friend and this is what he uses to creat very small beautiful jewerly, pin point accuracy and heat control.

ChaChing, my 2 cents

MIKE


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

Thank you for all the replies and any yet to come


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Yes, an autodarkening hood would make your welding much easier as you can then use one hand to hold nails and weld with the other.


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## BrownsFan (Jul 11, 2011)

I think stick would be near impossible for something small like nails. Perhaps a pro welder could do it with a stick…but if you were a pro welder, you wouldn't be asking welding questions.

This summer I bought the HF 90 amp MIG welder. I am very satisfied with it for the small job I use it. MIG was fairly easy to learn too. I have had 2 stick welders and sold them both out of frustration. I would like to try TIG someday.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

found a used MIG, does gas too?……..plugs into a standard electrical outlet 115V, used for 300 bucks, looks brand new. Same unit at Canadian Tire sells for 659

?
http://comoxvalley.en.craigslist.ca/tls/2511664632.html

what kind of "gas" does this use ?………..and wire ?

Cheers


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

hey there moron, this is really cool that you brought this up, i to have several one gallon buckets full of these old nails…they came from a house we took down, the house was built in 1900 and all of these nails are the large square headed nails…and i to have thought of using them in my wood work, but i to wanted to weld them together…i think the brazing color would be perfect with the nails..or a silver color of welding…thats what i want …so this thread is good for me also..but i cant afford an expensive set up…something under 22 bucks is what i want..if its possible….if you go with a certain method and it works and your happy with it, i sure would love to know it…ill watch this thread..or if you find the right way to do this…please send me a pm….thanks grizz


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

I took a few of the old nails over to a local metal fabricator/welder and he was kind enough to do some testing…….The MIG gave a nice result and he recommended that as the gases it gives off are not as toxic as TIG.

Stick was nice too but I have ZERO experience and he said that ……..MIG.

Cheers


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

I have welded nails together without problem I have a floor standing spot welde simply melts the two together no fuss if you can get access to one of these or call over to my metal shop you will have no trouble. Alistair


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

Hey Scotsman

where is your shop ?

Cheers


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

If you have tried brazing, you must have an acetylene torch. You can also weld with it using welding rod, not brazing rod. Make a nice weld when yoiu get teh hang of it. Back when cars were made of metal, a good body man could make a weld you couldn't hardly feel or see with one ;-))


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

Do I need a steel table ?……..then ground the table or can I just run the ground to what I am going to weld, and do it on a plywood table?


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## fussy (Jan 18, 2010)

Steel table. What you're going to weld is awfully small for a grounding clamp; plus you might ignite the table.

Steve


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

steel table………..275
used mig………….275
flux wire………… 20

quick flip helmet……ouch at 175 bought at Canadian Tire (not a lot of choices here), didnt work, wouldnt give me a refund *&^%, only "in store credit" …..buy cheapo goggles………20 bucks

new tip for flux wire

finally two feet and two shins done


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## Flyin636 (Jul 29, 2011)

New here,in fact first post…......An OA torch is an almost indespensible tool if any fabrication is on the menu.And has been mentioned,you can weld with it.I don't use ours everyday,but wouldn't want to be without it.And they seem to be the most tolerant of processes WRT rust.I use ours(big ole AIRCO master)about split 50/50 between cutting and welding.Its a touch big for really comfortable welding…..A sm Victor or Smith torch would be a nice addition here.

Mig is a fast process…..speed and ease of handling(one handed) are a cpl of its better traits.But if your work scope sees alot of different changes to parameters(thickness of materials,material change,ect)then they don't work that well.Its slow changin out wire,consequently folks get lazy and try to just "make-do" instead of opting for a process change.

Tig is the cleanest process we do here…..I love it,can hold a puddle on the head of a 4 p finish nail.They're a two handed affair and really shine as a "bench" setup.IOWs,seated….proper lighting,safety control,fume extractors,ect.It ain't cheap,and takes a goodly amt of practice….....but if you get past all that,they do some amazing work.

Stick,is still a go-to method for strutural and big work(I call it Bulldozer work)where,lots of amps,lots of heat,lots of "passes".An old Lincoln buzzbx is cheap and pert-near indesrtructable.BW


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

The learning curve begins. Thank you for all the input. I have a welder coming by soon, 20 bucks for an hour long lesson, ……………happy about that.

The welds dont have to be perfect as the nails are very old and far from perfect, so rough, rustic is part of the plan. I'm stuck in close to perfect isolation, no big box stores,……..not much here at all, and I need things to do at night as there is no TV, no nothing : (

Fishing is awesome albeit somewhat treacherous to get to the nice spots, having black bears, cougars, and maybe even the odd grizzly. Bear spray is a must so this project of welding nails together should be fun, and hopefully in the end………a sweet sculpture saved from a landfill

Cheers


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## Rice_Eater (Feb 1, 2011)

I don't have much experience with welding, but I know how to find what I need with Google.

Here are a few useful leads on others who have created art with welded nails. Maybe you could contact one or two of the guys who have already done it and ask how they went about it. Good Luck:

A jerusulum cross made of welded nails like you describe.

an 11 foot horse made from welded nails

another welded nail cross

a college art assignment done with welded nails


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

I did a lot of googling for ideas, method, ……….some sweet stuff out there, much talent

is it possible to get "flash" if the helmet is always on………. seems after awhile, after taking the helmet off, the eyes take awhile to adjust. I had "flash" once, ……….never again (touch wood). Welding outside.

will post pics


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

></a>


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

brutal eh !!!


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## cranbrook2 (May 28, 2006)

Looks good so far ! Your a natural !!


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

de-scaling, and buffing all these nails. ……eww, gotta be a better way

heating and bending them one at a time…….got to be a better way, maybe wide plate vice grips ?


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

if your wanting to get the rust off of them , there is a product called naval jelly that removes rust..look in your hardware store..as to bending them, have you tried needle nose vice grips and a small anvil…just trying to give a few ideas…im glad you found the way to weld these…i dont want to spend the money that you did though …maybe i will ship my nails to yu and you can weld them up for me…lol…good luck…when i do get around to welding mine..i want it to be the brazed color…it would look much better with the dark color of the nails…


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## Rice_Eater (Feb 1, 2011)

That looks great. Looks like you took to your new welder like a duck takes to water.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

grizz……..I like the brazed look too, easy enough to get no matter what choice you make to join them

Thanks for the kind words


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

we think alike

dont have the luxury of a fire yet : )


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

wouldnt mind taking all the nails, heat them in a big bucket to red hot, throw in some ball bearings that melt at a higher temperature and shake the ******************** outta the bucket, might bend the nails, and de-scale them………..wouildnt have to bend them.

?

till then, I de-scale them on a wire brush, mounted in a drill press one at a time, same for bending them…………… in 24 hours i will have no skin left on 4 fingers and two thumbs : )

welding 101, fun stuff, dreams do come true.


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## TomHintz (Feb 4, 2009)

I keep a couple different welders in my shop for this occasional welding. Of the three main options, MIG with gas is by far the best for your application. Stick is VERY hard to control on such small material, TIG wold be great but very expensive and difficult to learn. MIG is much easier at the lower end of the heat ranges where you will be working with stuff like nails, even huge nails.
MIG does need gas (Argon/CO2 mixusuallyy) but once you get set up this can be a useful tool to have around for lots of little repair things plus it gives you options for building thing, including jigs for woodworking. I have reviews of a few welders as well as some info on learning to weld on my metal site if a little reading would help. Link below.

http://www.newmetalworker.com/Reviews/#welders


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Geez!! Moron!! There is an easier way. Save those fingers for something else;-)) Why not get a rock tumbler or a reloading tumbler that is used for cleaning brass? You could put about anything in there for nails, sand with a little pea gravel would probably do it. You will be surprised how fast it cleans up those nails,


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

chi ching, chi ching

jeeesh,………….when does it end ?


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)




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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

Shop is in Dunoon Argyll Scotland UK thanks for asking heres the welder taken when I was building my metal shop and laying out the machines to be set up.Alistair


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

Sweet shop


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## ShopTinker (Oct 27, 2010)

My Uncle was a blacksmith. He taught me to to weld. I did a lot of it on the farm as a boy. When I was 18 I went to horse shoeing school and I learned to weld using in a coal burning forge, using flux, and perfect timing. There is an instant between ready to weld and melts away

My experience runs between coal burning forge, stick welder and acetylene torch. To me there is no question there. I wouldn't try to stick weld old nails as it would be tough to get a good ground and using enough amps to spark through the rust will melt the nail. If you aren't wanting to remove the rust, forget the stick welder.

I would use an acetylene torch with a small brazing tip. I've brazed everything from horse shoes to the sheet metal skin on a truck door using brazing rods, brass rods, stick welding rods and coat hangers.

I've not tried MIG. I'd like to. It seems to me, from comments made, that is your other option. Have fun, be safe. Wear appropriate leather shoes. I have a scar to prove how fast a drop of molten metal will burn through a none leather sneaker.

Keep a bucket of water and a fire extinguisher at hand!


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

I want a very small tip………..none of this 1/2" diameter stuff albeit………it does work

it would be nice to have the thing you weld with, to be like a "tooth pic"……thick, like a pencil instead of a fatty crayon. guessing that involves gas of some kind, and a lotta cake but I know its out there

I was in a welding shop, saw then doing meticulous, very accurate "spot" welding with SS. i was impressed

Tomorrow I have a date with a fishing pole, a down rigger, and hopefully a salmon or ten

time is still


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## Rice_Eater (Feb 1, 2011)

My friend, a gold smith, has a welding tip like that. Here is a link that should have what you are looking for.


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## Ghrrum (Aug 3, 2011)

I'm going to join in here and offer up my 2 cents.

Among my various skills and trades from life I've been a jeweler, blacksmith, and a bit of a machinist/tool maker. For something this delicate I would suggest oxy/acetylene with a jewelers torch, you can get a cheap oxy/mapp or oxy/ace setup from any of the big box hardware stores, here's my reasoning.

Firstly, it's cheaper to get the initial setup. Renting, leasing, or purchasing the tanks will be the most expensive part of it, pawn shops are good targets if you are looking to get something on the cheap. If you want new stuff, look on the Harbor freight website, their gas welding stuff is reasonably decent. If you don't want to invest in the full 'profesional' setup, once again, look into the cheap oxy/ace or oxy/mapp from a big box store.

Next, you can do more with oxy/ace than you can with mig or tig alone. Brazing, soldering, welding, bending, cutting, etc are all available to you, without anything horribly expensive in terms of rods or wire. If I'm doing a weld that is not going to be in a high stress application I use wire coat hangers. No flux or exotic stuff necessary.

Lastly a bit of personal bias, I've found I have MUCH finer control of what I'm working with when I use oxy/ace over either mig or tig (I've got access to both when needed), between that and the fact that I don't need a power outlet I stick with my oxy/ace for most of my work.

So that is my 2 cents added to this discussion.


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## boomerk (Jul 5, 2017)

roman said:


> I know this isnt really a woodworking question but its sorta related.
> 
> I want to weld nails together. Over the last 30 years I have bought, acquired, been given old building to which I have salvaged the wood (reclaimed) and I have saved the old wrought iron, hand forged/hammered rectangular nails and I now have thousands of them.
> 
> ...


I use horseshoe nails to make little crosses to either carry in my pocket or use for a necklace. It takes 4 nails to make one cross and a lot of time. The thing is once they are laid out you can’t touch them or it will knock them out of alignment. I use a oxy/acetylene set up to braze them. Currently I am using StaySilv rod with flux to weld them but want to use silver. It would be easier to get a good weld. The thing is, you may not be doing anything like this but its one way. I’m attaching a picture of one of my crosses. 
View attachment 3857869
View attachment 3857869


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## mr.ronaldseto (3 mo ago)

You might want to consider this, but the nails have to be clean. https://www.micromark.com/Web Store Images/87726_R-1.jpg


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