# How bad is it to breath in some sawdust



## richgreer

We know that it is bad to breath in too much sawdust. Yet, I am sure all of us have breathed in some.

I once suffered a pretty bad reaction from breathing in some Honduran rosewood dust. I've never suffered any immediate effects from other woods. Of course, I know that it can still be harmful to your health, over the long term, if you breath in too much of any dust.

Can anyone opine on the degree to which breathing in sawdust is harmful to our health? I'm sure it varies based on the wood. I wonder how harmful some of the common domestic woods are (oak, maple, walnut, cherry, etc.)

I ask this because I am debating with myself about buying some more (expensive) equipment to better control dust in my shop.


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## pmayer

Wood dust has been classified as a carcinogen by a couple US agencies I believe, and the finding is irrespective of species from what I understand. Some species cause additional problems; allergic reactions, etc., in case I didn't have you at "cancer". 

I think we all owe it to ourselves and to our families to get smart about dust collection, upgrade to more powerful systems, do our homework on duct design, modify the tool ports on many of our tools to deliver better suction and capture more dust at the source, and use the best filtration on our systems that we can so that the microscopic dust is not pumped back into our shops.


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## Lifesaver2000

While I can't offer an informed opinion about just how bad breathing sawdust is for a person, I can offer a bit of information that might help put it in perspective. And, keep in mind I am NOT saying that breathing sawdust is not bad for a person.

I have been a paramedic for eleven years now (who would have guessed). In that time, I have had scores, perhaps even hundreds of patients with some type of COPD (mainly emphysema or chronic bronchitis). In talking with those patients, as well as the patients that have had some type of lung cancer, I have found exactly ONE of them who was not a tobacco smoker for a significant portion of their life prior to becoming ill. That one person had worked at a limestone crusher for his entire life. Oh, and I live in an area where saw mills have been a very common sight for decades.

Of course, I don't mean to imply that their are not other things that cause breathing problems. I have two aunts who never smoked at all, but both lived in a high air pollution area of California starting back in the days before they had much in the way of environment law. One died of lung cancer in her 50's, and the other had to move to a different part of the country just to be able to breath because of her chronic bronchitis.

Again, I am not trying to imply that breathing a lot of sawdust would not be a bad thing, especially if you do it all day for five or six days a week. I am just saying that, at least in my experience, there are other things that are a lot more common causes of breathing problems other than sawdust.


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## Manitario

The risk is based on amount of exposure x duration of exposure. So, a small amount of sawdust everyday is probably equivalent to a large amount of sawdust once or twice a week. What can't be calculated out is how a person's body will respond to the sawdust; for some WW, their lungs seem more sensitive and react strongly to even a small amount of sawdust exposure, other guys will say they've been in a shop with no DC for years and don't have any problems.
The absolute risk of cancer is pretty small, but the risk of COPD or restrictive lung disease is much greater, again depending on your exposure and on the way your own body reacts. As both COPD and restrictive lung disease are mediated by the immune system, I'd imagine that certain woods, as you mentioned, can be a greater trigger. 
I've seen enough people in my life with lung disease, and came inside from the shop coughing enough times to make DC my priority.


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## longgone

I believe in preventative measures instead of hindsight. Nothing good can come from breathing sawdust and I personally like breathing fresh air and have always practiced deep breathing techniques.
Some wood types are more toxic than others and some people have quite adverse reactions to some.
The sculpting I like doing creates a lot of dust..more than my regular woodwork ….and therefore I take extra measures.
I have a 3 HP Odeida cyclone in my shop in addition to a Jet air filter and three homemade air cleaners I built from squirrel cage fan motors. I still get alot of dust and additionally I use a Trend Air Shield Pro (or as my wife describes it…my Darth Vader Helmet).


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## Bertha

It's definitely bad; how bad, I'm not sure we know. You have to consider what's IN the wood, outside of the wood itself. There may be mold, chemicals, who knows what. I had a raging reaction to bocote once. It started as itching in the elbow creases, then went on to full body hives. I fought with it for 6 months.


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## pmayer

This is a great thread, and I am glad you initiated it, Rich. There is always a huge spectrum of opinions and experiences on this topic. I should have also mentioned that I lost a non-smoking cousin many years ago who operated a cabinet shop. No dust collection and he died of lung cancer. I realize there are other variables, such as radon exposure, but it woke me up. My son also has dust allergies and asthma, so I owe it to him to minimize his exposure, particularly since my shop is attached to the house.

Greg's quote "nothing good can come from breathing sawdust" is consistent with my own feeling on this topic. I recently upgraded to a cyclone, and reworked my ducts to take advantage of the additional suction. The difference compared to my previous 1.5HP single stage dust collector is remarkable. I have spent a couple weeks in the shop since the upgrade, and I no longer taste dust as I am working, and don't lye in bed at night with plugged sinuses from exposure. Plus, I no longer find fine dust drifting into the house. My clothes are less loaded up when I walk in the house, etc.


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## richgreer

I am not a smoker and one of the reasons is that I have had a good look at how painful lung cancer can be. It has to be one of the most painful ways to leave this world.

The prospects of suffering lung cancer because of my woodworking gives me pause.

Thank you each for your contributions to, what I consider to be, an important topic.


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## Gene01

Rich,
Been breathing the stuff for years. I'll wear a mask when working MDF, though. Don't work anything but domestic hardwood, MDF and plywood from who knows where. 
Sometimes, I forget to shut off the DC when I leave the shop for a few minutes. I'm amazed at how much clearer the air is when I return.
I have worked some spalted stuff and always wore a mask, then. I'm a little leery about fungi.
Someday, I may get around to making an air cleaner.


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## CartersWhittling

Thank you for the post. I am only starting wood working, so I want to take the precatutions now before it is too late. I am deffinitly going to do some upgrading to my DC, especially now that the cooler weather is coming. While it was still warm out, I often opened too large garage doors on either side of my shop which quickly blew away a lot of the dust. Now that its cooler I need to keep the doors closed. I now in my experience walnut dust always bothers my nose, and I take extra precautions with it over other domestic woods, maple, oak, cherry, pine. Another simple preventative which hasn't been discused yet is to get a good dust mask, especially if the DC you have is not great yet.


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## Dcase

Some people smoke their whole lives and never get lung cancer and some people who have never smoked get lung cancer… Hard to figure that one out..

As for the sawdust its my opinion that breathing in a little saw dust is not the end of the world. Good dust collecting systems are very expensive and probably out of a lot of peoples budget. I went the cheap way and learned how to use hand planes for smoothing boards. I hardly ever use my ROS or palm sander anymore which really helps keep the are born dust to a min. I have a DC hooked up to my TS and Planer and thats all. I rarely get clouds of dust in my shop..


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## CharlieM1958

Here is a pretty informative piece I found online:

http://employment.alberta.ca/documents/WHS/WHS-PUB_ch045.pdf


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## Lifesaver2000

Just so I don't leave anyone with the impression that I think it is ok to breathe in the dust, I will detail what I do.

First, I have a 3m respirator with P100 filters that I wear pretty much all the time when I am in the shop. I currently use a shop vac with a HEPA filter for DC on my Table and Miter saws, and also for the router/router table.

If the temperature is anywhere near warm enough, I keep a steady flow of fresh air moving. Since the shop is only about 280 square feet, it doesn't take much to keep the air fresh.

I do as much sanding and portable cutting as possible outside.

As often as possible the shop gets swept out, then I turn on the fan in one end of the shop with an open door on the other end, and use a high-speed blower to blow all the dust out from all the shelves, walls, ceiling and tools. By the time this is done, and the fan is allowed to work for a while to clear the air, the shop will look pretty much dust free. After it sits overnight, I will work without the mask if I am doing something that doesn't produce sawdust. But, once I have made some dust, I won't go without the mask for any length of time until I clean up again.

I know this is a lot of work compared to having a real DC, but it seems to be pretty effective. I am in fact very sensitive to dust and other airborne contaminants, so I think I would know if I was breathing any significant amount of dust. I credit the 3m respirator mostly for keeping my lungs clean. I do hope to upgrade to a better dust collection system, but I don't think the DC system exists that can replace wearing a mask for at least some operations.

Oh, and like Dan I use hand planes for as much work as possible. Hard to breathe in those shavings!


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## Neight

This one really got me thinking…
I grew up around my dad's wood shop (he restored antique furniture for most of my life) with no DC system at all. He would wear a breather mask with fresh air delivery when stripping the pieces he got in to restore. There was only one mask though, and I was in and out a lot, so I am sure I got some heavy doses of those chemicals over the years. He died of ALS/Lyme disease this past March, and I took care of him while he was sick for nearly 10 years. He had such loyal customers, he got return business long after he quit the work. I actually refinished a few of those returning jobs myself. He and I have been around sawdust as long as I can remember. He had no lung issues to speak of, though ALS and Lyme disease can have some serious bad effects on the respiratory system. Here is the odd thing, his lung capacity was much larger than your average person. When his diaphragm muscles gave out and he could no longer breath sufficiently on his own, he was placed on a vent. His lung doctors were almost nervous about setting the vent at a level that made him comfortable, because most other people would have felt like their lungs were exploding at his settings… He also had a great tolerance for the suctioning that comes with being on a vent (mucous produced in the lungs has to be suctioned out, because of his weekended muscles). He would have to be in the hospital for various things, and the docs could not believe how well he could tolerate the suctioning process. It is no easy thing to have a tube shoved down into your lungs with negative pressure, but it really didn't seem to bother him.
Personally, I think it depends on the person. Some are much more sensitive than others. Personally, I grew up around copious amounts of sawdust, have worked in a grain mill (there is absolutely NO escaping dust in a grain mill), cleaned out old moldy foreclosed homes for a living, sprayed basements will Killz paint to treat for mold (with nothing good to use for a breathing filter), worked in various metal shops with metal dust in the air, and various other jobs that are generally hazardous to one's health (working in a meat processing plant in the grinding line is definitely a job where you hold your life in your own hands!). on top of all that, I have also been a smoker for the last 15 years. With all that said, I know I have a strong immune system, I rarely get sick, and none of those things have ever bothered me one bit, aside from some minor light-headedness from the killz paint overspray. The most odd thing is, I don't tolerate filter masks very well, the hot air buildup in those things makes me feel stifled…
In my personal opinion, it varies from person to person, but that is no reason to take chances. right now, I have no DCS, as I am just getting started. I am working in my basement, and there is little ventilation down here. I have already seen the air thick with dust, and haven't even had a decent cough as a result. As I can afford it, I will add what I can to help clean the air, but for now, it is what it is. A good DCS is a must, because if you don't have your lungs, you don't have your life, but I think the overall risk is based on each person's immune system and genetics. Some are just more prone to issues than others. For me, it is much more important that I have clean air for my family. They are the most important thing in my life, and knowing that some are more sensitive than others, I do NOT want to risk their health even a little!
sorry for the length of this post, but I guess I had a lot to say on the subject…
N8


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## Knothead62

I wouldn't recommend breathing any solid particulate. My father had a barber tell him that breathing the fine hair clippings can cause problems in the future. I wear a dust mask or respiratior when doing anything with dust.


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## Chipncut

_*I've mentioned this in another thread about dust collectors. I've noticed some people have a nice DC system, but end up using an air hose to remove dust from things. I think this defeats the purpose of a DC. "The fine dust is the most dangerous".*_

By the way, this is a great thread.


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## canadianchips

Good Topic.
A good dust collection system is nice. Will you live longer because you have one ? Impossible to answer. Working in a shop that has one will make your day more comfortable. I have lung problems. Not because I worked with wood ALL my life. In my case I worked on a farm breathing in dirt from fields, breathing moulds from grain bins and barns, spraying farm chemicals, breathing gas and diesel fumes, SMOKING when I was younger and now I live in an area that is rated as one of the 5 worst in North America (CHEMICAL VALLEY in Sarnia). I rarely wear a mask, uncomfortable, hard to breathe, hot and they fog up my glasses, I am more afraid of cutting a finger off because I cannot see when wearing one than I am of the dust. As mention before there are a lot MORE things that will cause breathing problems than saw dust.


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## diggerdelaney

This is from the British "health and safety executive" but still the results are the same.

Toxicity List


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## Manitario

There are always so many interesting responses to posts like this. As with everything though, personal anecdotes often get presented as scientific fact. This is similar to reasoning that because you don't know anyone who has been in a serious accident in which wearing a seatbelt saved their life, there is no sense in wearing a seatbelt. I personally don't know anyone with cancer or resp problems from breathing wood dust, but it doesn't keep me from being concerned about my exposure to it. 
Most "toxins" carry a very small risk of health problems, and exposure does not guarantee that you'll get sick. Even prolonged exposure over many years is not a guarantee. This is why we're often biased to believe anecdotal evidence that something is safe, because although a certain toxin (eg. wood dust) has been associated with health problems, the overall risk is low enough that we don't see tons of WW developing health problems from the wood dust. 
The real question though, even if the risk is 1/1000, would you want to be the 1? What constitutes an acceptable level of risk? This question underlies a lot of the discussions on LJ's regarding safety. Everytime SawStop is brought up here, there are many who are quick to chime in about how they've worked with TS for years and never cut themselves. Those who have bought SawStops have recognized that even for the safest WW the risk of using a TS is not 0, therefore anything that further reduces the risk of injury is worth it. Determining a comfortable level of risk though is a very personal decision; my acceptable level of risk may not be yours.


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## Grandpa

The human body is made to self clean. the finer the dust the more difficult it becomes for the body to get it out of your lungs. That is the reason cigarette smoke is so dangerous. It is so small it goes in deep and the body can't get it out. My mother not only smoked, she stayed indoors in her last 20 years and the house was full of smoke. It literally made me ill go go in the house. She died at age 57. I don't think this means everyone that smokes can expect an early death but I have lived long enough to see a pattern. I think dust would do the same thing to a person. I know people that have worked in grain elevators and feed houses grinding grain and hay for cattle feed. They came out into the fresh air covered with dust and lived on. Personally, I cut some treated (the newer kind) wood in a basement while framing some walls. I had pneumonia and a nonstop cough in about 2 or 3 days. I got treated by a doctor and in a week I returned with a mask. I can say that my parents friends that smoked and working in environments such as dry wall work and other dust related professions have had lung issues in their later years. I do not currently have a dust collection that is permanent but I am planning to have one soon. I would like to teach my grandchildren some of the fun things in life and it seems that those environments are more damaging to younger children and it seems that females have even more problems. I also grew up on a farm and have been in the dusty fields and granaries during harvest. I have survived 65 years and seem to be doing alright so far. Is it worth the risk? Not at all. The safety devices we have today makes it a new world. We didn't worry about noisy machines, dusty environments or riving knives. Should we today? I think we should. We have learned a few things. One of those things is our homes don't have the air exchange we had in those old houses and we never get fresh indoor air. We need fresh air and it needs to be clean if we plan to live a long healthy life. Does that mean you can do this and live long. Not at all but if you don't do this your odds just went down. Get a good dust collector with a 1 micron filter or better. Get air cleaners with the same filters. Protect your lungs. They tell me you won't get a second set.


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## Builder_Bob

Face masks come in many configurations. I use this mask which has a valve that opens during exhalation. Its quite comfortable and doesn't fog glasses. I use one for a couple of weeks, and I can see the fine dust building up on the outside while it stays nice and clean inside. Sometime I forget I'm wearing it.

Please, try one of these before giving up on all masks.


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## Grandpa

cr1, some is defined as the amount needed to cause a reaction isn't it. Your some and my some might not be the same.

Builder_Bob, you are correct. those masks with the N95 rating are the good ones and really not that expensive. those are about $1.50 each and they can be bought at Walmart. I thought they would only have the cheapies but they had the good ones also. We don't have all those big box stores in my town so we have to shop where it is.


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## LepelstatCrafts

Well how much fiber do you really want in your diet anyway?


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## JuniorJoiner

Not sure how bad wood dust is, but i myself have been fighting a salivary gland infection on and off for a few years now, and it all started my first few months of woodworking school. That said, none of the other students developed anything similar. but upon research, it seems to only be caused by exposure to wood or grain dust.

I just choose to collect the dust whenever i can now.

btw, the school did have a huge felder single stage dust collector, and ambient air cleaner.


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## BillWhite

I have a DC and an ambient air cleaner, I open the shop for good ventilation, ceiling fans, use the vac when sanding, keep everything clean, and I'll still die with a cigar. Oh well…......I live near an airport. A plane could fall any time. Life is a crapshoot.
Want a drink?
Bill


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## roman

My grandfather smoked like there was a cure for cancer, a 90 year tenure and he drank too much too………mind you he rolled how own so no chemicals

Dust is HORRIBLE for you, thats just a no-brainer and like some one said, the smaller the particle, the more deadly the dust so wear a mask, and get filter bags that trap the SMALLEST micron size.

That said. We are all going to die and near as I can figure, I would rather die doing what I love then working my life sharing some one else's breath in a plane, an office, a mall.


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## IrreverentJack

My shop is in my basement and family members have nut allergies. I'd rather not find out how much wood dust it takes to affect them. I've read over Bill Penz's site and I'm concerned. I've been thinking about cobbling up an ambient air cleaner with an old furnace blower, some washable filters (HEPA, MERV?) and maybe some ion generation for small particle precipitation. Finding non-conflicting information on this subject is difficult. Most filters seem to have different rating standards so comparisons seem useless. Thanks for this post Rich. I need all the info I can get on this subject. -Jack


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## renners

I only have to look at the dust in my ceiling fans to know how much fine dust is in the workshop. My shop vac fits all my powertools and the dc fits all the machines, and I never cut, plane, rout or sand without some sort of extraction on. Still, the dust is on the filters.
MDF and teak are the worst. Oak and beech are known to be carcinogenic. I do think a lot depends on the individual though. Not wearing a mask when needed is just lazy and careless.


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## juniorjock

Taking in saw dust in your lungs is bad. It is bad on any level. It's common sense. If you have common sense. I know a few woodworkers that have been told they have spots on their lungs….. from woodworking. Duh.


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## leonardchurch

> Wood dust has been classified as a carcinogen by a couple US agencies I believe, and the finding is irrespective of species from what I understand. Some species cause additional problems; allergic reactions, etc., in case I didn t have you at "cancer".
> 
> I think we all owe it to ourselves and to our families to get smart about dust collection, upgrade to more powerful systems, do our homework on duct design, modify the tool ports on many of our tools to deliver better suction and capture more dust at the source, and use the best filtration on our systems that we can so that the microscopic dust is not pumped back into our shops.
> 
> I agree with you. If we take precautions from our side, we can definitely prevent the risks.
> 
> - pmayer


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## Finn

A good friend of mine Had Chronic Obstructed Pulmonary Disease. He had smoked for many years but had quit for the past 30. He asked is doctor if wood dust would worsen his COPD and his doc. said "you will not get COPD from wood dust. There are so many air pollutants around us anyway. He died at the age of 91 last year and not because of COPD.
I have a dust collection system with 6" duct and the dust collector is out in a separate building. I still have plenty of dust in my shop so I have an ambient air cleaner mounted to the ceiling. Only time I wear a mask is then I am cleaning out my workshop. As has been said "life is a crap shoot"


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## Jon_H

Every human body is different and will react to identically or similar stimuli differently. However, I believe that "nothing good comes from inhaling dust". Or anything else for that matter. Here are a couple of additional data points:

When I started woodworking, I would wind up coughing for a few hours after going to bed after spending time in the shop. Obviously, I was fairly sensitive to saw dust. A good dust collector and air cleaner immediately moved to the top of the tool-lust list. I started wearing a respirator when sanding. Coughing went away.

I mentored under a gentleman that had over 50 years of professional woodworking experience. He started apprenticing under his grandfather at age 14 and struck out on his own at 16. He didn't have a central DC in his 10,000 sq.ft. shop, just a few "portable" dust collectors connected to the big machines. His shop was always neat and tidy, but the floor was always covered with a fine layer of sawdust.

He never seemed to have any adverse reactions to saw dust. For over 50 years. Then, he was diagnosed with sinus cancer. That cost him his left eye and cheek. Less than 2 years later, the cancer returned and cost him his life.

I discovered the ill-effects of saw dust very early in my "career", and was able to take corrective action before too much damage was done. My mentor didn't discover the ill-effects of saw dust until the last 2 years of his life. At which point, it was too late for corrective action. You may not experience any adverse reaction to saw dust. Right up until you drop dead.

I'm starting to return to woodworking after a bit of a hiatus. In addition to the DC and air cleaner, I will be wearing a respirator any time any power tool is being used and learning to use hand-planes more. I want to enjoy this hobby for as long as possible!


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## Slider20

I have asthma and a serious dust sensitivity. I have a Rockler wall mounted dust collector with HEPA filter, Jet Air filter and pretty much always wear a 3M P100 respirator. Even with all that, sometimes especially when I am under the weather I get some pretty bad Asthma reactions from spending time in the shop, which led me this winter to need some steroids and take a break from woodworking for a few weeks. Normally, my setup is enough though.


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## Pezking7p

The research on wood dust seems very clear with respect to reduction of pulmonary function, allergic reactions, dermatitis, etc. If you breath wood dust, your lungs/sinuses are going to get pissed off. Period. We all know this.

With respect to long term risks, such as cancer, the research seems extremely unclear and findings of studies seem to contradict one another. Most studies point to increased cancer incidence in people who *work in the furniture industry.* They do not seem to control for other exposures (chemical, radiation, etc) that may occur in the furniture making industry. I suspect specific chemicals or specific types of exposure are driving these studies, rather than actual saw dust, otherwise the correlations would be much clearer.

In any case, I think it's safe to say that you should take care when making saw dust. A respirator costs $15 and isn't really that uncomfortable. If you have $1000-$2000 to throw at a dust collector then just do it. Why wait?


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## jimintx

I could have pretty much written this post too, Jim F. (I didn't use 6" lines, and my DC machine is in the corner.)

Living my entire life in the region of SE Texas chem plants and refineries, I have been exposed to, and lived in, some nasty stuff. And then there has been a near lifetime of sawing and sanding without much protection. Not to mention plenty of outdoor cooking smoke. And a quite high year round pollen levels.

Now as a semi-retired guy, I have added the DC and a hanging air filtration unit. I think I'll even get some of the 3M Cool Flow disposable masks mentioned buy Builder Bob, I know I have seen those at the big hardware stores. At this point, I am really not worried about the long term effects of any regular saw dust, but I do find that sometimes I sneeze and have a runny nose, so reducing that would be directionally good.



> A good friend of mine Had Chronic Obstructed Pulmonary Disease. He had smoked for many years but had quit for the past 30. He asked is doctor if wood dust would worsen his COPD and his doc. said "you will not get COPD from wood dust. There are so many air pollutants around us anyway. He died at the age of 91 last year and not because of COPD.
> I have a dust collection system with 6" duct and the dust collector is out in a separate building. I still have plenty of dust in my shop so I have an ambient air cleaner mounted to the ceiling. Only time I wear a mask is then I am cleaning out my workshop. As has been said "life is a crap shoot"
> - Jim Finn


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