# Dowels for miter joints?



## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

I am building a project for a guy who asked that I dowel the miter joints as he likes the look of dowels. Project is a fairly large box of Jatoba and he requested oak dowels. Sounds OK to me but I don't know that I've ever seen it done. Anyone done this? All comments/ sugestions welcome. Holes will be drilled perpendicular to the faces of the box sides. Hope this makes sense. Thanks for your time/comments in advance.


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

funny you ask

been thinking about that myself

the jig for this needs to be real tight 
or the bit will wander
and splinter out the back side
i think

glue the box first
so the parts don't wander

should look real nice 
little ellipses


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

David, I think you have the wrong picture. The dowel hole will be drilled straight into the face of the wood (not at a 45 degree) so the possibility of 'blowout won't occur and the visable part of the dowel will be round, not oblong. Sorry, I didn't explain this very well. I need a pic. RANCE: where are you when I need you???


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

something like this?










I start the hole with a good mark made with the scribe on my combo square. I bury my BRADPOINT bit in the chuck to make it short and unlikely to wander. My drill press has an excellent stop system. I think those dowels are 3/8.


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

Sorry Andy, I was out all day because I had a class to teach this evening. Here's the corner(As Jack pointed out):










Note however, the offset of the dowls from one face to the other so they won't intersect. I am not in agreement with any of the above methods in getting the holes absolutely accurate.

To accurately drill for these, I would make a drill guide for drilling the holes. You'll want to orient your box on your DP such that you can drill them. Something like the following:









(Kindly ignore the pre-existing dowels. However, you WILL need to have marked the locations for your dowels.)

Now build a drill guide. Drill a 3/8" hole in part A of your drill guide. Location is not absolutely critical. Now lay part A EXACTLY over your crosshair of where you want one of your dowels. Now take part B of your drill guide and put it in place as shown and brad nail it to part A:










Now with your drill guide, you can accurately drill ALL your holes EXACTLY the same distance from the corner of the box. You just slide it along to a crosshair, clamp it in place, and drill. The drill guide will keep your drill bit from wandering.


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## Woodwrecker (Aug 11, 2008)

I actually like David's idea too.
That 45 degree placing with the oblong face would be neat looking.


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

well there we go
all these ways work ok

the ones in a mitered corner in face at 90 deg.
scare me somewhat
as the 'head' of the dowel
is in thin territory
and the diminishing edge to corner
doesn't really have a lot of holding power

*WudnHevn's* last drawing
moves the dowel back from the corner
where there is more 'meat' to keep the end from spliting


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

You could spline it first. Then use a 3/8" forstner 1/4 deep.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Rance, I appreciate the drawings. It appears others have mastered this sketch thingy also! David, Really good point about the thin edge. Do you think the fact that the miters are already glued wii help. I was going to use 1/4" dowels as far from the edge as possible. Jumbojack, Are yours mitered corners or butt joints? That look is exactly what this guy wants. Thanks to all of you (a great bunch of guys who are always willing to take the time to help a fellow LJ)! Andy


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

Yes, there are many great sketchers on here, and lots of folks willing to help. A great site. You say "fairly large box". How large? If it is being thrown around in the back of a pickup, then yes, the strength could be an issue. If it is sitting at the end of a bed(a blanket chest), then I think the dowels would be sufficient. Will the box be tossed around? Using the smaller dowels(and more of them) would actually be stronger IMO.


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## LittlePaw (Dec 21, 2009)

Wow, excellent information! Learned a lot on this! THANX, Doc and good luck!


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

I would construct the box to stand on it's own merit without needing dowels for strength.

The dowels then are merely decoration and along for the ride.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I like these ideas from a decorative point of view. I'm thinking of experimenting myself after reading this thread.

I agree with DS251 though, that the dowels should really not be necessary for strength in most cases.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

The dowels will primarily be decorative. Miter joints with a perfect fit still basically rely on end grain glued to end grain so a spline or dowel is functional as well as decorative. If this were my project I would spline the miters but the one who's paying for it asked if I could dowel it. This box should not be subjected to any abuse (but one never knows what might occur). After all we have had a tornado and an earthquake in the same day (last month)! Thanks for all the input. I'm off to the shop to make a drilling jig like Rance suggested.


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## Chipy (Apr 20, 2011)

gfadvm if you have a Japanese back saw this would be good time to get it out sounds like like a lot of dowels to cut.


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## dustysawyer (Mar 16, 2011)

I think the ellipse splines (Dave's Way) look more "elegant" than the straight and round approach. I call them cat's eye splines. Patron is right though about the need for a tight, accurate jig to keep the bit from wandering.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Chipy, A hand tool? Perish the thought! I cut 24 dowels with my band saw using that cool jig I saw here on LJ in a very few minutes. Rance, Your jig worked perfectly! I may have to send you another present if you keep this up. I would like to try David's angled dowels on a miter joint but I'll have to figure out how to keep from blowing out the exit hole. Backer board should help and I think Rance's jig could be drilled at a 45 to guide the drill. But later, I gotta finish this project first.


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

Andy I built a box years ago with dowels configured the way you speak of but with less than satisfactory results. I think I choose to use dowels that were to big in diameter, had some tear out near the corners. Jack's box in comment #4 looks great, wish mine had turned out so well.

I built another box setting the dowels at a 45° as David described and achieved satisfactory results. I used the drill press to make a hole through a block of wood and then cut out a 90° section near the block center with my table saw. I used a clamp to hold the jig while drilling the box corner.

I posted a picture of said jig for another LJ a while back. I'll see if I can find it and repost it here for you.


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

Naw, Andy and I detest hand tools.  Glad it worked for you Andy. I think David's angled dowels would look nice too. I've only done the straight dowels in the past. I'll be experimenting a bit.


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

Here you go Andy. It's not to scale, you'll have to fiddle with the hole center and distance to corner.










I made this jig for a box I built back when the audio CDs first came out. Around 1980, so I couldn't find it out in my "jig box" anymore.


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

that's the one darrell

put the cut-out corner block in the inside
and clamp them together
to hold the drill guide in place

just glue the corners first
so they don't slide while drilling

great post
lot's of good ideas


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Devann, I like that jig! Thanks for the pics. I've got to learn how you guys post those drawing thingys. I'm going to try this dowel method as soon as I finish current project. David, Good tip on using the cut out for the inside corner. I wouldn't have thought of that. What a great bunch of guys!!!!


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

That is an awesome idea David. Nothing short of gluing the jig in placed will make it hold any better ;-))


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## Cato (May 1, 2009)

Allright, I thought the dowel idea might be a little screwy at first on a mitered box, but as I read on I was like yeah this could give an interesting look to a certain type of box.

Great ideas on this post and I learn from you guys all the time. Thanks for the interesting and informative thread.


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