# New Woodworker With Questions About A Craftsman 113.298240 Table Saw



## Targa (Aug 21, 2013)

I'm just getting started in woodworking and have some questions about the craftsman table saw I recently acquired for free from my neighbor.

The saw is model #113.298240 and is in pretty good condition. It has the original rip fence, which I know isn't very good, and has a belt drive dual voltage (7/14 amp) ball bearing motor which runs well.

I'd love to have a 3HP cabinet saw, but since I need to purchase other basic machines I want to try to utilize this free saw if I can, at least until I build some things for my wife and she says ok to upgrade.

In any event, here's a few things I'm thinking of doing in order to more effectively use this saw

- Install an aftermarket rip fence, the brand/model is yet to be determined (suggestions would be appreciated)
- Install a link belt with machined pulleys to reduce noise and vibration
- It came without a blade guard so I'm ordering a used original one off of EBay

I've already purchased a new Diablo rip blade and Diablo combination blade as well as a mobile saw base.

I have tried to make sure the blade can be adjusted to 90 degrees to the cast iron center table which it is.

However, when measuring the relationship of the blade to the miter gauge slots in the table top the blade is off .015. I've tried to adjust the trunnion assembly but it not very easy to get it perfect. Seems as though once you tighten the bolts holding it to the cast iron top, it move slightly.

So now I have a couple of questions about what I've described.

1. Is this saw worth investing in a aftermarket fence?

2. Will a link belt and machined pulleys make a noticeable difference?

3. Is having the blade .015 out of parallel with the miter slots too much? Will it only effect crosscuts?

4. Since the motor is only rated at 1hp, can I effectively cut thicker wood by cutting half way thru one side then flipping it over to cut the other to complete the cut? Or simply raise the blade incrementally?

Btw, I do plan to pick up a 6" jointer which I think could true up the double sided cut I just described.

I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.

Thank you


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

*1. Is this saw worth investing in a aftermarket fence?*

IMHO, absolutely. a delta t2 or a vega 40 will greatly enhance it's level of precision.

*2. Will a link belt and machined pulleys make a noticeable difference?*

yes, but i'd check the existing pulleys for coplanarity first. even with machined pulleys adn a link belt, pulleys that are non-coplanar can generatea significant amount of vibration.

*3. Is having the blade .015 out of parallel with the miter slots too much? Will it only effect crosscuts?*

IMHO, yes, it's too much. if the blade is nearer to the miter slot at the outfeed side of the blade, it could result in kickback as the work piece is pinched between the fence and the blade as the work piece is fed through the blade.. the arrangement that hold the trunions to the underside of the table is a simple one. i have two similar (113 series) saws, one a c-man and the other a ridgid. a little patience can result in the blade (or arbor flange) being dead parallel to the miter slot:

infeed side of blade:










outfeed side of blade:










the key is to loosen the trunion bolts just enough , with one of the front corner trunion bolts jjuusstt loose enough to act as a pivot point for the trunion assembly. once the rear trunion is tapped left or right into alignment, careful and slow "star pattern" tightening of the bolts will affix the trunion in place.

*4. Since the motor is only rated at 1hp, can I effectively cut thicker wood by cutting half way thru one side then flipping it over to cut the other to complete the cut? Or simply raise the blade incrementally?*

with the proper ripping blade(sharp carbide teeth, aggressive hook angle and 24 or fewer teeth), that saw will rip 8/4 hardwoods in a single pass. at least mine will. you can't shove it through like you would on a 3hp cabinet saw, but with a properly modulated feed rate, that saw will handle almost anything a hobbyist will encounter. and, if raising the blade to complete a cut, be sure to use a featherboard to keep the work piece firmly against the fence.

hope this helps.


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## Targa (Aug 21, 2013)

toolie,

thanks for your comments they are very helpful. I'll give adjusting the trunnion another try over the weekend to see if I can get the blade to be parallel with the miter slot.

Btw, when I did some searching recently for a Delta T2 fence, they seem unavailable everywhere I looked?


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## DonBroussard (Mar 27, 2012)

@Targa-+1 to toolie's comments. He knows what he's talking about re: C'man 113 saw rehabs. That is a good saw. I also did one over a year ago, and I put the link belt on it with the factory pulleys. It's smooth and pulls well. If you can get cast iron wings, that will get you a little extra weight for stability. I put the Delta T2 on mine too. Good luck finding one-you might luck out finding the same or a similar saw for sale and get a better fence as part of the deal.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

The fence is definitely worth an upgrade.

Get the alignment within +/-0.003" if you can. 0.15" is too much.

I'd hold off on the link belt and pulleys until you see if you need them. Replacing a belt and pulleys that are working great won't make much difference, but if they're the cause of any vibration, then a link belt could help. When and if you decide, I'd try the belt first, and only add the pulleys if needed.


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## tefinn (Sep 23, 2011)

I also have a 113 Craftsman saw I bought new in '82. Mine has the CI webbed wings and the 1 1/2hp motor. I can rip 8/4 stock with ease. The only modification I've done is a link belt from HF. Follow toolie's instructions for setting the trunions and you can really dial the blade in. I've made do with the original fence for so long, I have no problems with it at all. You learn to adapt to the fence inconsistencies over time. Lol.

*Btw, when I did some searching recently for a Delta T2 fence, they seem unavailable everywhere I looked?*

This seems to be the norm lately. The new owners of Delta, for whatever reason, are having problems. Nobody knows exactly what, but there are no tools or parts getting to the market. Even the eBay market for T2's has dried up because of the demand!


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

if t2s are too hard to come by, the vega 40 also gets good reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=vega%2040%20table%20saw%20fence

also, don't overlook these OEM fence systems.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Craftsman-Professional-Align-A-Rp-24-12-Rip-Fence-System-for-table-saw-/161080425164?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2581243acc

i have a similar one on a ridgid 2412 and it's every bit as accurate and reliable as the delta t2 on my 113 series c-man. it's not a t-square fence, but when properly dialed in, it'll do everything the t2 will do AND, the rails can be shifted to the right for greater right of blade rip capacity very easily. it renders the front rail tape measure useless, but that's a small price to pay for the added rip capacity.


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## Targa (Aug 21, 2013)

I made some progress aligning my table saw blade to the miter slot. Using toolie's suggested approach I was able to get the infeed side of the blade to within .002 of the outfeed side of the blade.

Instead of rigging up my dial indicator somehow and taking much more time, I made a quick jig (pictures are hopefully attached) that utilizes measuring the relationship of the end of a screw and a tooth on the saw blade with a feeler gauge. I marked one tooth rotating it 180 degrees to measure the infeed and outfeed sides. Its not pretty, but it's adjustable and works pretty well. Some day after I get my shop up and running I'll make something more elaborate. Btw, I'm not used to Photobucket so the pictures may not be correct.

Patent pending. lol


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## Targa (Aug 21, 2013)

I was looking on EBay as well as the Grizzly and Amazon web sites for Table Saw fences to upgrade my original craftsman fence.

I saw the Shop Fox W1410 fence which looks similar in design with the Craftsman-Professional-Align-A-Rip fence toolie suggested for consideration as a alternative to the more expensive T2 and Vega 40 fences.

Grizzly has it on sale at $152.95 + $16.95 shipping with no sales tax which looks like a pretty good deal.

One question about fences is whether having a longer T Square type design that extends past the back edge of the saw's table is better than one that clamps at both ends but is only the length of the saw's table like the W1410?

Anyone have any experience or opinion on whether this is also a good fence to consider?

Thank you


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## dschlic1 (Jan 3, 2013)

I also have a 113 Craftsman table saw. Mine had the OEM micro adjust fence. The fence when properly setup worked will. However moving it was difficult and the fence length is very short. I managed to purchase a Vega pro 40 on Ebay for $160 and have never looked back. The longer fence produces much smoother and straighter cuts.

A tip for adjusting the trunions. I loosen the bolts on the trunion and then move it using a bar clamp. I adjust the clamp to zero out the deflection and then tighten the trunion bolts.


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

looks like a nice fence, but i wonder about the bearing surfaces against which the fence registers. it looks like the fence rests against the thin edge of a length of angle iron. just not sure if that's enough surface area for the fence.


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## Targa (Aug 21, 2013)

I have a lead on a new Biesemeyer model 78-902 42" fence and wonder whether it too would be a reasonable fence to consider for replacing my stock fence on my 113 craftsman table saw?

Have not been able to find many reviews of it. Is it an oddball or one that is less desirable than a Delta T2 or Vega 40?


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## tefinn (Sep 23, 2011)

The Delta T2 and Vega 40 are based on the Biesemyer fence. Biesmeyer was owned by Delta. I don't know if it still is after the sale of Delta by B&D to Chang Type Industrial. Any of those fences would be great to have.


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

*Is it an oddball*

doesn't appear to be:

http://www.deltamachinery.com/accessories/biesemeyer/item/78-902

looks like a nice unit. i assume the one you're chasing also comes with the fence rails? looks like it will work just like a t2 will. here's a good article i found on mounting a delta tsquare to a c-man contractor saw:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Retrofitting-A-Delta-T2-Fence-to-a-Craftsman-Table/#step1


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Toolie asked the same question I had….does that Biese come with rails? It's a great fence at the right price, but it will need rails to function.


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## tefinn (Sep 23, 2011)

Amazon has them for sale, but they're sold seperatly. $209.12 for the fence from Amazon and 139.95 for the rails from Grizzly. The fence price is the best I could find anywhere.

http://www.amazon.com/DELTA-78-902-42-Inch-Table-Fence/dp/B0006OHG48/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_text_y

http://www.amazon.com/Biesemeyer-78-130-Delta-Table-Guide/dp/B000RFPJSQ/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_text_y


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## Targa (Aug 21, 2013)

*knotscott said - Toolie asked the same question I had….does that Biese come with rails?*

I haven't seen it yet, so I need to find out. Thanks for the heads up that the fence and rails seem to be sold separately.


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## Targa (Aug 21, 2013)

Btw, do most aftermarket fences like the Vega's and Biesemeyer's have an adjustment to insure the face of the fence is perpendicular to the saw's table top?


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

*to insure the face of the fence is perpendicular to the saw's table top?*

i've not seen a TS fence that make that face adjustable relative to the table top. where fence faces are not perpendicular to the table, all i've ever seen is an added fence face shimmed to be perpendicular to the table.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

If the fence is not perpendicular to the table top and there's no way to adjust the fence itself, you can likely shim or adjust the fence rails in some way to make it perpendicular. There's only a couple of things that can cause the fence to be out of square with the table top, after all.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

My Xacta II fence has adjustments to square it with the table….they're incredibly simple, so it boggles the mind that Biesemeyer would omit such a simple feature. They're generally really close, but I used tape to shim my Biesemeyer.


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

*My Xacta II fence has adjustments to square it with the table*

any chance for a pic or two of the part of the fence that facilitates that adjustment?


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Sure. This set up is a Jet Xacta II fence (basically an HTC fence made in the USA) with a router fence attachment mounted on Shop Fox Classic rails, on a Shop Fox W1677 saw. The adjustment screws are simple nylon threads that use a hex wrench to tweak it square to the table….pretty much the same type screws used to adjust parallelism.


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

those adjusting points appear to be on the fence head. won't those adjustments also change the space between the bottom of the fence and the table top?


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

Increasing that distance by a few millimeters won't matter at all. There's always a small gap there anyway.


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## Targa (Aug 21, 2013)

*I have a lead on a new Biesemeyer model 78-902 42" fence and wonder whether it too would be a reasonable fence to consider for replacing my stock fence on my 113 craftsman table saw?*

Well, this lead didn't pan out because it was for just the fence and the price was too high.

Now I'm trying to decide which new T-square fence to buy and I'd like a little more input.

The leading choices are as follows:

- Woodstock's Shop Fox Classic W2005 with standard rails giving a 25" rip capacity (available to my door for $325.00 )

- Vega U26 with standard rails giving a 26" rip capacity ( price is somewhere around $350ish but not available for a month or two)

- Vega Pro 40 with 40" rip capacity (available to my door for about $310 )

- Delta 78-902 fence with 78-130 rails having a 30"rip capacity for about $400.00 w/ sales tax and shipping from two sources to my door

I've been scanning EBay and Craig's list for used ones but they seem hard to find so I'm going with new.

I think I prefer the standard size rails because they will fit better in my shop plus I do not seeing myself ripping beyond 25" or 26".

The Shop Fox Classic W2005 with standard rails seems to be the best match, but the Vega Pro 40 appears to be the best value if I used the extra rip capacity.

Anyone have any experience with the Shop Fox Classic? Good or bad.

I would appreciate your thoughts.

Thank you


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

Are you absolutely set on getting a new fence? If you set up the stock one carefully, lubricate all the moving parts, and potentially attach your own fence face, it can do perfectly fine work. That has the great benefit of being extremely cheap or free.

Spending $350 for a new fence for a saw that's probably not worth more than $150 seems a little crazy to me. Sure, you can keep the fence after you upgrade to a better saw, but more than likely that better saw will come with a decent fence already.


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## Targa (Aug 21, 2013)

Jonah,

I'm not sure if you have followed this posting from the beginning? If not, the primary reason I started this post was to ask others if my FREE tablesaw was worth investing in a good fence along with a few other accessories.

I agree, I could use my existing fence, which is what I've been doing for rough cutting things around the house, but it is not only shorter than I would like but it has to be bumped at both ends and measured manually several times at both ends of the saw blade every time the fence is changed to get it right.

Since I'm just getting into what I would call precision woodworking and hoping to build some furniture pieces, I'd rather have a good fence and rail system that is accurate and repeats every time without all the nonsense I have to go through now to set the fence.

*Everybody, I'm still looking for feedback on the Woodstock's Shop Fox Classic W2005 fence.*


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

I did read the whole thread. I guess not having owned one of that specific vintage Craftsman saws, I can't speak to how bad the stock fence is.

However, even considering that the saw was free, I don't think spending $350 on an aftermarket fence is a good idea. You could potentially find a complete, functional hybrid/contractor's saw for not much more than that. For example, I paid $325 for my relatively clean, perfectly functional Ridgid 3650, which has a capable but not great fence.

To me, it seems too much like spending $3000 on new rims and tires for a car that's worth $800.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

I have a similar saw and added a Delta T2 fence and it has been a great addition and yes there is an adjustment to make the fence face right angles to the table. Those old Craftsman fences are horrid, they move when you set the lever and I could never get mine to not crab toward the blade at the rear of the fence. Otherwise the saws are sound and can be tuned to cut accurately w/ a new fence.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Get a T2 or used Unifence.


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## Targa (Aug 21, 2013)

*Get a T2 or used Unifence*

Unfortunately, new T2's from Delta will not be available until sometime next year and used Unifence's are not very abundant.


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## Targa (Aug 21, 2013)

*Jonah said - "Spending $350 for a new fence for a saw that's probably not worth more than $150 seems a little crazy to me"*

I had the same thoughts initially.

However, if I spend $300-$350 for a good fence and it help me be a better woodworker, it's probably a small price to pay considering I would likely get 50%-60% of my investment back if I sell it on EBay when I replace my saw in the future for a saw with a good fence to start with. It sure seems to make sense when I look at it this way.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Unifence's are not very abundant.

But not uncommon either, there are one or two on ebay every time I check.


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## RibsBrisket4me (Jul 17, 2011)

Here is a pic of my 113. era saw…..I LOVE IT! I added a Ridgid fence….


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

this ebay item, depending on how reliably the rail halves meet up, is a very good fence. i have a similar unit on a ridgid 2412, only the rails are single piece items, and it's as accurate, reliable and as easy to use as the delta t2 on my related 113 series c-man TS.:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Craftsman-Professional-Align-A-Rip-24-12-Rip-Fence-System-for-table-saw-/400559687089?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d4337c5b1

just trying to provide useful, reasonably priced alternatives.


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## RibsBrisket4me (Jul 17, 2011)

Great find Toolie…that solves his fence problem nicely!


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## Targa (Aug 21, 2013)

*toolie said - this ebay item, depending on how reliably the rail halves meet up, is a very good fence. i have a similar unit on a ridgid 2412, only the rails are single piece items, and it's as accurate, reliable and as easy to use as the delta t2 on my related 113 series c-man TS*

toolie, I've been tracking this fence on EBay for several days as a possibility. I've even corresponded with the seller regarding his comments about the encounter the fence had with a saw blade on its left side. The price is right but I'm concerned about the two piece design as well as the need to put a metal piece on the fence to cover the marks left by the saw blade damage.

Btw, do you know which model Ridgid saws came with a fence having the one piece rails like the one you have?

Thank you


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

ts2412, ts2424, ts3612, ts3650, ts3660 had one piece rails. as far as the damage on the ebay fence is concerned, i believe these fences can be disassembled and the fence piece reversed so a fresh face (unmarked) would be the face that faced the right side of the saw's blade.

while i've heard of two piece rails being a possible issue on ridgid's 4511 and 4512 TSs, i hadn't heard of any issues with the older c-man two piece rail configurations. one of the advantages to that rail system is that it can easily be slid to the right for added ripping capacity (possibly up pto 36" from 24) by loosening the bolts that affix the rails to the table top. this modification renders the front rail tape useless, but that's a small price to pay for the added capacity.

BTW, the saw marks shouldn't affect the functionality of the fence. a piece of baltic birch ply attached to that face would do the job of providing a smooth surface while covering the blemish.


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## Targa (Aug 21, 2013)

Thanks to toolie's comments, I decided to buy the Craftsman Professional Align-A-Rip 24/12 Rip Fence on EBay that I've been tracking and he suggested.

I figured for $149 shipped it has to be much better than my current stock fence and it will save me a few hundred dollars that can be applied toward one of the many other things I need to buy.

Thanks everyone for the help and direction you provided.


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

above linked fence is listed as sold. let's see a few pics when it's installed and operational.


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## sawdustjunkie (Sep 12, 2013)

I have the Craftsman with 1.5 H.P and honey comb cast iron wings.
I bought the Accufence from MuelCab. I think it was about $200. Works very well and is very accurate.
Only problem is when taking it off, it doesn't lift off. It has to slide off to the right side.

The link belt is a must. hardly no vibration at all.


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

*Only problem is when taking it off, it doesn't lift off. It has to slide off to the right side.*

any chance for a pic or two of this fence? if it is similar to the fence the OP is acquiring, it may be that your fence isn't adjusted correctly. if the clamping lever is adjusted too tightly, the fence doesn't release enough for it to be lifted off the rails. mine lifts off easily anywhere along the rails. it does not need to be slid off the end of the rails like the old jet lock fences on old unisaws.


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## johnstoneb (Jun 14, 2012)

I have a 113 Sears and the factory fence is a POS. I added a T2 fence about 6 months ago and it made a real saw out of it. 
You can cut up to close to 4" with a 10" blade with that 1 HP motor you just slow down the rate of speed a little. The 1hp motor hasn't been an issue to me. 
I also replaced the miter guage with and Incra v120.
When aligning the blade to the miter slot make sure the tilt lock is loose, if the tilt lock is tight you cannot move the saw blade very much and it moves right back as you go to tighten it.

Those old craftsman saws were a pretty good saw in there time just had a weak fence and the miter guage could fit the slot better.


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