# Lumber choice for outdoor dining table



## ArmchairLinebacker (May 12, 2018)

Hi,

Relative newbie here. I want to build an outdoor dining tale for my backyard. I saw an amazing teak table and chairs at Costco for about $2800 that is kind of my inspiration.









I did some quick math and figured I could build the table out of teak for about $900 (90 board feet). Im not sure if thats accurate now or not. But I went home and whipped up a design on Sketchup based on 2X6 construction.


















I have watched woodworking videos for years starting with pretty much every New Yankee Workshop episode and more recently YouTube videos by Jon Peters etc. In December I finally moved to a place where I could set up my own shop. I have a Delta 36-725 table saw, an old Hitachi 6.5 miter saw and just bought a 10" craftsman Radial arm saw.

I am wondering if i should

A) Make this table out of construction grade softwood and deck stain? Like a picnic bench

B) Try to source teak in 2X6

C) Make a solid hardwood top

I don't know about the top being either slats with gaps or without or maybe a solid top with an epoxy finish. Just don't know about what is necessary or realistic for outdoor furniture.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

I want to know where you are going to be getting 8/4 teak for $10/bdft. 4/4 is $28/bdft here.


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## Runner (Apr 13, 2016)

I'm building something similar in the near future. Planning on using Menards' rough sawn cedar. It's about $2.2 bft. My only concern is the moisture content which is about 11%. Does anyone know if this is too high to start an outdoor table?


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

Unless you're made of money, I'd never build anything meant for outdoors out of expensive wood. The sun does a number on wood, even wood that is taken care of with stain, paint, or clear finishes.

I'd use cedar or something similar. It's relatively cheap and it holds up as well as anything outside. Use an exterior stain or clear finish and plan on reapplying often (yearly, most likely).


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

since you are relatively new to woodworking, why don't you build a table
of your design with pressure treated construction lumber to practice with
before you invest a lot of money into something that may not serve you well.
let it air dry a few weeks before applying a stain - it will still look good.

.

.


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## ArmchairLinebacker (May 12, 2018)

You guys are awesome, thanks I think i'll take your advice and use construction grade softwood with a seal/stain.

Should I make the feet, or legs, or entire bottom out of pressure treated? Or is that not necessary? Table will be on an uncovered concrete patio.

Also as far as the top goes, should i leve room between the wooden slats, butt them up against each other, or attempt a glue-up to make a solid top?


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

> Should I make the feet, or legs, or entire bottom out of pressure treated? Or is that not necessary? Table will be on an uncovered concrete patio.
> 
> Also as far as the top goes, should i leve room between the wooden slats, butt them up against each other, or attempt a glue-up to make a solid top?
> 
> - ArmchairLinebacker


My suggestion would be to keep this 1st project bare bones simple. Use pressure treated for entire project. 2×6 for top butted with small gaps. (these will open over the years with the weather and drying process) That done finish as you like and enjoy. As the years go by you will see where improvements can be made.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> since you are relatively new to woodworking, why don t you build a table
> of your design with pressure treated construction lumber to practice …
> - John Smith


This is good advice. Your first piece will not be your best piece no matter how prepared you feel. There are plenty of rot resistant woods like white oak, mahogany, teak, walnut, cedar and cypress heartwood (must be heartwood), and many others you can google. Look at what is used for decking in your area. I'm not crazy about your design either. I would want the battens turned on edge and connected directly to the legs.


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## BFamous (Jan 26, 2018)

I made my outdoor table out of cedar about 5 years ago…cost me about $400 for the materials to make a behemoth 4 'x 12' table.
About twice a year I use a scotchbrite pad and soapy water to clean it, then reapply teak oil. So far it has held up and aged beautifully.
Not the best picture of the table, but this is from last fall. I think the cedar just gets better looking with age.
Also, I wouldn't want to eat anything off of a table made from pressure treated wood. I'd at least do a cedar top if you're going to do it out of pressure treated…


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

> You guys are awesome, thanks I think i'll take your advice and use construction grade softwood with a seal/stain.
> 
> Should I make the feet, or legs, or entire bottom out of pressure treated? Or is that not necessary? Table will be on an uncovered concrete patio.
> 
> ...


I'd make the whole thing out of cedar instead of pressure treated, personally. Leave room between the slats for water to drain. If you really want to make it to last, put some epoxy on the bottom of the legs and anything touching the ground.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

I would definitely make mine out of ebony.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

> I made my outdoor table out of cedar about 5 years ago…cost me about $400 for the materials to make a behemoth 4 x 12 table.
> About twice a year I use a scotchbrite pad and soapy water to clean it, then reapply teak oil. So far it has held up and aged beautifully.
> Not the best picture of the table, but this is from last fall. I think the cedar just gets better looking with age.
> Also, I wouldn t want to eat anything off of a table made from pressure treated wood. I d at least do a cedar top if you re going to do it out of pressure treated…
> ...


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

I would go with cedar or cypress.

Keep in mind with cedar the sapwood will rot.


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## jamsomito (Mar 26, 2017)

I have an outdoor table and benches lined up for my next project. I really wanted to do cedar but it just wasn't in the budget so I wound up with pressure treated southern yellow pine. I don't like that I have to work with chemically treated material, and yes, you don't want to eat food that comes in contact with the stuff either. But, it will last a long time, it's cheap, and I figure a good opaque stain will be a good enough barrier to be safe to sit around and eat at. Plus, when was the last time you ate potato salad directly off the table top? We'll be using plates. And we will probably use it a couple times a week for only a few months a year. I'm pretty sure it will be fine.

I bought the lumber last year. I got KDAT (kiln dried after treatment) wood, but it was still sopping wet. I put it on stickers on the lumber rack last summer, so it will have been almost a full year now when I start working with it. You probably don't need to wait that long, but I got busy and now I'm sure it will be as dry as needed. Some of it did twist, especially the 4×4's I got. Not sure how I'm going to deal with that yet, but I'm glad it's dry at least.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

I would not make a table I intend for people to eat off of out of pressure treated lumber. If you must, you can make the base out of it, but the top should be something nontoxic. Even modern pressure treating uses foul chemicals (although no arsenic, so progress) that you absolutely do not want to come into direct contact with. If you're going the big box SPF route, just get some regular 1×5 stock to make the top out of.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

if you are going to The Big Box store, I would just use the Redwood


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

> I wouldn't want to eat anything off of a table made from pressure treated wood.
> - BFamous & jonah


to solve that problem, use plates - - - and a vinyl tablecloth.
in the Southern States where we have the "Low Country Boil" several times a year,
just plain newspaper is put on the P/T table top and pour out the crawdads and other
foods and are enjoyed by many.

this is the style most commonly used in my area - just to keep it simple.









in my neck of the woods, it is common practice to have outside picnic tables
made entirely out of treated pine construction lumber. I have a 4×14' that I built in 1983 
and is still being used today. (each to their own devices).

.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

To my eye, that table's legs are pressure treated and the rest of it is ordinary construction lumber.

That's the route I would go if I were building it.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

^ Yes - no one eats right off the table surface….


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## PatrickIrish (Oct 19, 2012)

> Hi,
> 
> Relative newbie here. I want to build an outdoor dining tale for my backyard. I saw an amazing teak table and chairs at Costco for about $2800 that is kind of my inspiration.
> 
> ...


My sister want's a 10ft table. I've been looking at slabs locally on cragislist that have been dried. One 2" x 40' x 10' would be nice. Heavy but it won't be buckling the weather. Or two slabs and join then.

As for your design, you have the boards gapped for water, are they screwed from underneath to hold the top down?


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

> I would not make a table I intend for people to eat off of out of pressure treated lumber. If you must, you can make the base out of it, but the top should be something nontoxic. Even modern pressure treating uses foul chemicals (although no arsenic, so progress) that you absolutely do not want to come into direct contact with. If you re going the big box SPF route, just get some regular 1×5 stock to make the top out of.
> 
> - jonah


If you get into your automobile and inhale you have breathed more deadly chemicals than if you licked the pressure treated lumber everyday for a decade or so. I had to make MSDS sheets for the company I worked for in Iraq. Many classes on workplace hazards. Was amazed how many chemicals you will find in a typical office setting, never mind a mechanics shop.


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## mudflap4869 (May 28, 2014)

Deck boards. Stick a nail between them to make the gap for drainage. Screw from the bottom so the heads don't look like crap. Give it 6 months and treat with water resistant poly, or deck coat.


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## atedesta (May 15, 2018)

Wood moves with changes in ambient temperature and humidity. Wood living outdoors most of all. Spar varnish is formulated to accommodate that movement. Epifanes IS spar varnish. Use it, or something similar, for best results. Know that it will need to be maintained for more often than the white paint I originally suggested.
David G


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## PeteStaehling (May 3, 2015)

> I would go with cedar or cypress.


Not sure where you are so it may be less available where you are, but I'd choose cypress. It is nice to work with, fairly inexpensive, and looks nice.

If it will be fully in the weather I'd leave it unfinished and let it weather to a silver gray. I might consider a finish if it will be somewhere that is somewhat sheltered, like on a porch, screen room, or a deck with a roof.


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## mknittle (May 15, 2018)

Newbe woodworker here but veteran project builder. It is easy to go overboard on a project. IMHO the one John Smith posted is a design that is hard to beat, Simple, sturdy and classic.

where you live will be a factor in material readily available at a good price recently moved from the west coast where Douglas fir and redwood were common. Here in the Midwest I see Cedar and a some unfamiliar woods for outdoor use.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

> I would not make a table I intend for people to eat off of out of pressure treated lumber. If you must, you can make the base out of it, but the top should be something nontoxic. Even modern pressure treating uses foul chemicals (although no arsenic, so progress) that you absolutely do not want to come into direct contact with. If you re going the big box SPF route, just get some regular 1×5 stock to make the top out of.
> 
> - jonah
> 
> ...


That is some first-class BS there. Until about a decade ago, pressure treated lumber contained arsenic, which is acutely toxic as well as a carcinogen. The current PT chemicals, while not acutely dangerous like arsenic, are no picnic either.

I'm not sure what "deadly chemicals" you're referring to in my car, (in other words, show me some evidence they actually exist before I'll believe it) but they're certainly a hell of a lot less toxic than arsenic. In addition to its acute neurological and gastrointestinal effects, arsenic causes skin, lung, liver, and kidney cancer (source: NIH study).

There are reasons why building codes forbid the use of PT lumber indoors where it comes into contact with people.


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## jamsomito (Mar 26, 2017)

> I would not make a table I intend for people to eat off of out of pressure treated lumber. If you must, you can make the base out of it, but the top should be something nontoxic. Even modern pressure treating uses foul chemicals (although no arsenic, so progress) that you absolutely do not want to come into direct contact with. If you re going the big box SPF route, just get some regular 1×5 stock to make the top out of.
> 
> - jonah
> 
> ...


I don't mean to get in an argument here, and I am certainly not saying current PT chemicals are good for you, but I don't see how going off on arsenic is helping anyone's discussion when you yourself say it was discontinued 10 years ago. If you don't think there are VOC's in your car from the plastics, textiles, and finishes when they're really there, then discussing something that's really not there is a pretty moot point.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

I wouldn't use PT solely because it's ugly.


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## bilyo (May 20, 2015)

Material wise, you might look into Roasted (Thermally Modified) lumber. I don't have any first hand experience with it and I'm not even sure where to get it. However, what I read about it is pretty impressive regarding exterior use. Maybe some of you here know more about it.


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## GrantA (Jul 19, 2014)

Whatever you use just know that any finish WILL require maintenance, probably yearly at least. 
Old growth cypress will stand the test of time with no finish, it's not cheap but it's not at exotic prices either, yet. That's if you like the weathered grey look. 
Have fun with it whichever route you take and post pictures!


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## cabmaker (Sep 16, 2010)

> I would not make a table I intend for people to eat off of out of pressure treated lumber. If you must, you can make the base out of it, but the top should be something nontoxic. Even modern pressure treating uses foul chemicals (although no arsenic, so progress) that you absolutely do not want to come into direct contact with. If you re going the big box SPF route, just get some regular 1×5 stock to make the top out of.
> 
> - jonah


Please pay attention to this post !


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## ArmchairLinebacker (May 12, 2018)

Thanks everyone for your input. I think Im going to go with cedar for the whole thing. Ill be sure to post some pics when Im done!


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

Did you know that western red cedar is really in the Cypress family. We call cypress cedar because it has a smell and are fooled by fools.
There just isn't a good source for true cedar and most woodworkers freak out when they see how resinous it is.
Google-
Deodar cedar 
Atlas cedar 
Cedar of Lebanon my favorite 
Just some fun info for you woodworker fanatics


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## ArmchairLinebacker (May 12, 2018)

Okay, the wood has been ordered, going with red cedar, but after some more research I made some major changes to the construction. I also saw a magazine article that gave me the idea of making the top using a t&g joint and breadboard ends.My main concern was keeping the top flat and attached to the legs, I feed confident about that now. Then Was worried about the lateral supports and legs having enough axial strength which I feel good about now with the 6"X 6" double mortise & tenon joints. My only worry now is the whole top sagging in the middle being unsupported for about 5 feet. Im putting enough money and time into this thing that I want it to last 20+ years. Currently planning boat varnish finish.


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## Fresch (Feb 21, 2013)

Did you say plastic lumber?!


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