# Any 4-6' levels straight enough to use as a straight edge?



## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

My 6' level has about had it. The vials are cloudy and scratched up, and has some gashes in the aluminum. I liked the fact that this one was straightish enough to use as a straightedge at least for stuff that didn't need precision. I figure if I have to buy a new level, i may as well try to get one that is as straight as possible. After all, extruded aluminum technology has come a long way since my old level(maybe from the 80s?). Any ideas?


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

put it on a flat board or slightly bowed board and you'll be able to see how straight it is by flipping it over. Look at the gap size underneath. I expect yours is bent from abuse. I have one that got bent, no idea how, but it wasn't thrown around.

I have a Kapro 78" now that's straight enough for assessing jointed boards. I got it on sale. Maybe I'm lucky it didn't get bent in shipping, maybe it's a sturdier build.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

Thanks, what model Kapro? 78" is a good size. It looks like they have several versions? Also I guess a more general question is what would be straighter in general, the I-beam? Box type? Some other type?


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

It's a box type.


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## xedos (Apr 25, 2020)

Stabila
Milwaukee redstick box levels - hard to find though.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Logic dictates for a level to be accurate it has to be straight. I would think any good quality level would be straight enough for most woodworking applications. I have several I use.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> Logic dictates for a level to be accurate it has to be straight. I would think any good quality level would be straight enough for most woodworking applications. I have several I use.
> 
> - Don W


Logic and chinesium are two very different things. I went to the big box orange store and looked at their levels. Every 2 that I picked up and held together had pretty big gaps between the two. And without a known good flat to test against I wasn't sure which one to trust, if any.


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## Novamr99 (Oct 9, 2020)

That's when I walk the level over to the table saws. That's the flattest thing you'll find in the orange big box store.


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## Novamr99 (Oct 9, 2020)

That's when I walk the level over to the table saws.


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## Rick Dennington (Aug 27, 2009)

About a year ago I bought a 6' level at Lowes, and also tested it on a flat table saw top. It was very accurate. But….....when I got home I also tested it with a 4' metal Tsquare I had . I bought the 6'er to use on new miter saw fences I was building, which are 8' on the left and 6' on the right. Dead on, so I was pleased with the results. But….I also took another 6' footer while at the store and laid it on top of the 6'er I was gonna buy. It tested out positive for flush all the way up and down. I guess I just got a good one…...!!!!


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

I use my levels to cut straight edges on plywood or the level fixtures for wall mounted shelves.
For setting up machinery esp a jointer I use a precision straight edge, The tables on my jointer are probably truer then my level. Any jointer worth it's spot in a woodshop should be that way.

Good Luck good day


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

Stabila works pretty good for me. They tend to be a lot pricier than your average BORG stuff though. Plus even they come in several levels, I can speak for the Contractor quality, not so sure about their bargain lines. On the Pro levels accuracy is guaranteed, and they are shipped to assure that.

One of these would be dead nutz

That would also get you an excellent level. If you really didn't need an excellent level, then I would suggest you go to 80/20 and buy a stick, or 3 of some of their higher grade aluminum extrusions. Guys build CNC frames, and tables with that stuff. Many of them are so accurate they are scary.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

I checked my local upscale builders supply(Dixieline). They have various Stabilas. One is a set of 6 various sized on sale right now for $349 with a nice case. The bug one alone is like $220 so seems like a deal for all those. Maybe I can talk my wife into that since I always have to hang stuff up for her.


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## Axis39 (Jul 3, 2019)

I have a nice long straight Johnson… 72" in fact.

I've used it a reference edge for years. Never had a problem.

I also have an older 48" Craftsman that I've had over 30 years and it is also still nice and straight.

$349 for 6 Stabilas is a deal.. I'd love to have some Stabilas.


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## northwoodsman (Feb 22, 2008)

It has always been my understanding that levels over 4' in length are thinner in the middle/center so they don't rock when placed on a slightly irregular surface, in other words if you look extremely closely only the ends will touch the surface. This levels are typically designed and used for framing walls, door jams, etc. This would make sense if you put two together there would be a gap between them. If you were framing a house and using a level for straight edge, 1/16" off would be extremely accurate, and 1/8" is normally close enough.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Logic dictates for a level to be accurate it has to be straight. I would think any good quality level would be straight enough for most woodworking applications. I have several I use.
> 
> - Don W


+1 common sense,right.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> +1 common sense,right.
> 
> - pottz


Go to your local big box store and put a bunch of random levels up together. You'll see as they say, common sense isnt so common


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## xedos (Apr 25, 2020)

> That s when I walk the level over to the table saws.
> 
> - Novamr99


WoW, your BORG has tablesaws big and flat enough to be useful for checking a 4-6 level ?

Mine usually only have dinky jobsite saws in stock, and often they aren't even on display. And I live five miles from the largest's HQ and visit the 2nd largest's often; and they're only marginally better.

" It has always been my understanding that levels over 4' in length are thinner in the middle/center so they don't rock when placed on a slightly irregular surface,"

Funny, this has never been my understanding. You're describing a warped level, and my understand has been those are useless for their intended purpose.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> +1 common sense,right.
> 
> - pottz
> 
> ...


yeah but what do those cost,im talking a decent name brand quality level,like stabila high end or just as good and warranted the same,empire blue series levels at half the price.


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## northwoodsman (Feb 22, 2008)

So if you were plumbing a 10' tall wall with a 6' level what is going to give you more accurate results? A level that teeters/pivots at some point over the run, or one that only touches the surface it is aligning at the ends? The longer the level the more accurate the results when only the ends make contact. Remember only the top and bottom of the wall/stud need to be plumb/level. In most cases there is nothing you can do to fix a bowed wall unless you change out the bad component.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> So if you were plumbing a 10 tall wall with a 6 level what is going to give you more accurate results? A level that teeters/pivots at some point over the run, or one that only touches the surface it is aligning at the ends? The longer the level the more accurate the results when only the ends make contact. Remember only the top and bottom of the wall/stud need to be plumb/level. In most cases there is nothing you can do to fix a bowed wall unless you change out the bad component.
> 
> - northwoodsman


most framers use extention levels that go up to 12-14'.if you want real accuracy use a plumb bob,nothing is more accurate.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

Funny my Home Depot has no table saws in display except a little skil tabletop one up high out of reach. They kind of got rid of anything a woodworker might attempt to use. Actually half the "tool" section is car stuff and trailer accessories. I think lowes has one full size delta saw I could use. Otherwise I guess a 4×8 sheet of MDF is probably the flattest edge i could find in one of these stores.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

> +1 common sense,right.
> 
> - pottz
> 
> ...


I've personally never associated "good" or in this case "accurate" with "big box stores". Keep in mind these retailers are big enough to drive price over quality. They probably suffice for most wood applications, but it's unlikely they will be of a consistent quality.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I try to fit the tool to the job. My levels are flat and sit flush on my cast iron table saw. Maybe not perfect but good enough for most things. For setting up equipment I have a Lee Valley straight edge.

I can not see spending a lot of money for an extremely accurate level.


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## Rick Dennington (Aug 27, 2009)

> I try to fit the tool to the job. My levels are flat and sit flush on my cast iron table saw. Maybe not perfect but good enough for most things. For setting up equipment I have a Lee Valley straight edge.
> 
> I can not see spending a lot of money for an extremely accurate level.
> 
> - Redoak49


 +! on this statement.. To pay $200-300 for a level is insane. I'd rather put the $$ to good use on another tool that I'll be using a lot more, like a good router, etc.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> I try to fit the tool to the job. My levels are flat and sit flush on my cast iron table saw. Maybe not perfect but good enough for most things. For setting up equipment I have a Lee Valley straight edge.
> 
> I can not see spending a lot of money for an extremely accurate level.
> 
> ...


maybe not spend $300 but if it's not accurate it's worthless.it's either true or it's not.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

Update. Went to Lowes, took all the Johnson levels, even the "Pro" box levels, held them up together and I could read the labels on the wall behind them through the gaps. Probably 1/32" to 1/16th gap in various spots. Will have to check some other stores…


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Update. Went to Lowes, took all the Johnson levels, even the "Pro" box levels, held them up together and I could read the labels on the wall behind them through the gaps. Probably 1/32" to 1/16th gap in various spots. Will have to check some other stores…
> 
> - SMP


let me ask what those levels cost? some say i wont pay 200 for an accurate level.so pay 50 bucks for one thats not true.i say 50 bucks wasted on something thats worthless.once again common sense!you get what you pay for.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> let me ask what those levels cost? some say i wont pay 200 for an accurate level.so pay 50 bucks for one thats not true.i say 50 bucks wasted on something thats worthless.once again common sense!you get what you pay for.
> 
> - pottz


I believe the 6' was $79 and the 8' was $99. I got even more confused looking at Amazon. As it looks like Stabila makes several versions, and some of the reviews said they were bent like a banana, LOL. Look at the first review, him and his freind received levels that were bent https://www.amazon.com/Stabila-29072-72-Inch-3-Vial-Contractors/dp/B0009V140U/ref=sr_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=Stabila+Levels&qid=1602382556&sr=8-10

Frustrating!


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

well ive sold stabila levels for over 40 years and ive never had one that was bent.and yes there are different versions,looks like amazon is selling the cheapest version.but stabila warrants there levels to be true for life,and they stand by it.i have been recommending empires blue series levels,warranted for life like stablia,a much heavier duty frame and blue vials that are easier too read.and about half the the price.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> well ive sold stabila levels for over 40 years and ive never had one that was bent.and yes there are different versions,looks like amazon is selling the cheapest version.but stabila warrants there levels to be true for life,and they stand by it.i have been recommending empires blue series levels,warranted for life like stablia,a much heavier duty frame and blue vials that are easier too read.and about half the the price.
> 
> - pottz


Well Amazon carries every single Stabila out there, and even the top of theline one the 3rd review said it rocks on a flat surface https://www.amazon.com/Stabila-37472-72-Inch-builders-Certified-Professional/dp/B00009OLI4/ref=sr_1_33?dchild=1&keywords=Stabila+Levels&qid=1602383686&sr=8-33

I'll go to Home Depot and check the Empire True Blue. I noticed teh regular blue is compact box made for lightness/easy to carry 25% stronger than I beam. The true blue is full box, and 50% stronger than I-Beam. $10 more for True Blue, $79 for 6' is great if that one is straight. I'll cehck it out as soon as i can get over tehre. Thanks!


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> well ive sold stabila levels for over 40 years and ive never had one that was bent.and yes there are different versions,looks like amazon is selling the cheapest version.but stabila warrants there levels to be true for life,and they stand by it.i have been recommending empires blue series levels,warranted for life like stablia,a much heavier duty frame and blue vials that are easier too read.and about half the the price.
> 
> - pottz
> 
> ...


yeah the one you just showed me is their top level.i find it hard too believe the problems stated.whenever a customer has brought in a level that was off,as long as the frame was not bent they replaced it no questions asked.same for the empire levels.


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## xedos (Apr 25, 2020)

Plumbing a 10' wall with a 6' level amateur hour. Plate level or plumb bob or a laser. A seasoned carpenter would know this. Heck even a young journeyman would know this.

135 reviews and the last one is bent but 98% of everyone else is happy . You're cherry picking or naive. What are the reviews for the Empire or whatever other brand you care to pitch ? Everyone has duds , and UPS/FedEx damage stuff all the time in shipping. Especially, big , long things.

$300 for a router ? That's insane. I can do the same thing with a used hand plane and save the planet at the same time because my muscles don't emit greenhouse gases like the electricity source most will use to power their routers. This is just as absurd as saying $300 for a level is insane.

Accuracy costs money. Precision costs money. Lifetime warranties cost money. Not everyone needs these things. For those that don't - even that $79 bargain touted here is overpriced.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

I have a stabila level I think it might the 8 ft one. It was expensive at 200 +
I bought it for hanging Gates not ordinary common house gate made from fence boards. I'm taking nice double gates.With floating panels and vertical grain western red cedar. I needed something to measure the swing so that when I hung them they dive down into the ground.
The ground is never easy to predict.
It's paid for itself already


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

If someone is using a table saw top as a reference for flatness, they don't know very much about table saws. Even the best manufacturers don't claim accuracy better than 0.062" over the whole surface.


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