# Latex Paint and Earlex 5500



## mculik5 (Nov 13, 2013)

I recently purchased an Earlex 5500 to paint a bunch of trim. I decided I am also going to try painting a bedroom with it. I did a test run tonight on some scrap drywall, and I'm not sure what to think.

Here are the details:

- ~8oz of Ben Moore Regal (old style, not new Regal Select)
- 2oz Floetrol (per directions)
- 1oz water (~12.5% thinning)
- 2.0mm needle
- Flow control out 3 turns
- Spraying ~9"-12" from surface
- Unless I got closer (~4"-6") I had to go back over areas to get complete coverage
- Mixed with Earlex drill mixer

The paint sprayed, but it seemed "spitty/dotty/not atomized." However, this is my first time using any kind of paint spray system, so I don't know what to expect. Below is a picture of what the spray looked like (I applied a filter to make it easier to see, and included my finger for size reference).










Thinking that the paint needed to be thinner, I added another 1oz of water (resulting in ~25% thinning) and tried again. I didn't notice any difference in spray quality. According to the Ben Moore TDS for Regal, 12.5% is the max recommended thinning. The final color on the drywall scrap seemed decent enough, but if I can help it, I'd prefer to follow Ben Moore's thinning recommendations (unless that's just not how it works for HVLP sprayers). After finishing my test, I ran the extra paint through the viscosity cup and found that the stream broke at 135 seconds.

What do you guys make of this?

- This is normal?
- Bigger needle?
- Too far away?
- Thinner paint? (If so, would love thinning suggestions…)
- Just roll it?

Thanks for the help.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

I had the same issue with a different gun when I sprayed recently. Im not real sure of the answer as im still learning myself but I think that the viscosity is too high at 135. I think its should be more in the range of 25-35. Again im still very new at spraying but ill be watching for any answers.

Last time I sprayed latex out of my HF HVLP setup I thinned a quart of paint with 3oz of water and 2 cap fulls of floetrol. I was using BM Regal paint.


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## mculik5 (Nov 13, 2013)

Thanks, chrisstef. I agree that 135 seconds is too thick, and think that's the problem. However, I was confused about the thinning because I read on the forums to thin latex to 10% and also that the ideal viscosity is 45 seconds. It seems like I would have to thin latex WAY MORE than 10% to get anywhere near 45 seconds. Sounds like your latex mix was similar to mine.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

I was really worried about thinning it too much myself but in the end I pretty much said eff it and just thinned it as much as I needed. Worked out pretty well for me. You could also try PM'ing EarlexTech here on LJ's. His name pretty much says it all. He should be able to dial ya in.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Just roll it. Spraying latex is always a problem, you might have better luck with an airless sprayer.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

The earlex is a fixed pressure, meaning you have only so much , and as with any water base, you have to adjust the gun to accomodate . You can thin up to about 10 % and I agree floetrol helps.

It looks to me you have TOO MUCH fluid , try turning the fluid knob in. This will make the pattern smaller and it will be slower painting, but it should help the texture of the paint. When it goes on you want the texture behind the gun to look about like an 80 or 120 grit sand paper, your looking more like 36 grit .


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## mculik5 (Nov 13, 2013)

Based on what I'd heard about HVLP sprayers, I was expecting the 80/120 grit look, and posted this because I thought it didn't look right. When I started spraying, I followed the Earlex directions to squeeze the trigger and then unscrew the knob to establish proper flow. I found the results to be the same in terms of "grit" regardless of flow rate, and landed on 3 turns out because I felt it was the best balance between distance from surface, pattern size, speed I could move the gun, etc.

Confused about 10% thinning, as it seems to me that 10% puts the paint right at the top of the viscosity rating for the 5500 (which is 160 seconds). If latex is supposed to be that thick going through the gun (as opposed to the forum posts that say ideal is 45 seconds), then it means my problem isn't the thinning. That leaves the needle, an actual gun problem, and/or my technique as possible problem causes.

I still think it's the thinning, and like I said, I'm confused as to where the 10% thinning recommendation came from if that doesn't seem to get you anywhere near thin enough.

Thanks for all the help. Keep the responses coming. This is a great forum.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Orange peel.

I thought the viscosity cup was supposed to break at 60 seconds?

Keep thinning I guess.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

One of the issues with latex is the varying viscosities, from brand to brand, many of the "one coat" formulas are much thicker, if so thin it more .

Unfortunately I am not much on a viscosity cup, got a couple laying around some where, just never found them to be worth the time and effort.

Thin the paint until it will go thru a mediumn mesh strainer fairly well and call it a day , for a water base finish , my rule is if it go thru the strainer ablut as fast as you can pour it in within reason, your good to go and you can then use a 1.4 ,1.5 needle / nozzle . This formula has never failed me.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

I really like HVLP systems for spraying clear coatings, but for myself I prefer to spray latex with an airless sprayer. They are fast and efficient. 
Nothing worse than a thick paint that won't atomize.


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## Craftsman70 (Jul 31, 2012)

I've run into similar problems with latex. Had to thin it way to much, almost 1:1 to get it to lay down smoother. After that, just went back to brush/rolling it or switch back to praying oil. I'd love to hear a better solution.


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## mculik5 (Nov 13, 2013)

I'm going to PM Earlextech to see if we can get him to contribute to this topic. Based on all the replies, it seems to me that one (or all) of the following is happening:

1. Those of us who are new to spraying, and trying to spray latex with a HVLP system, are missing some big secret that has allowed some of you to get great results.

2. The "thin 10%" folks are getting results like I got and saying they are good. I guess it wouldn't be bad if that were the case. My "36 grit" results didn't look any worse on the drywall scrap than rolling would have, though I was expecting better from the sprayer.

3. People who are getting truly good results are thinning to 25%-50%. Maybe that's the big secret from point #1.

4. There is a problem with my technique, or actual problem (defect) with my gun.

5. Ben Moore Regal is really thick paint. (It's all I use for walls, so I'm not familiar with the thicknesses of other brands).


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## Earlextech (Jan 13, 2011)

I've been on an airplane all day long or I would have answered sooner. Demonstrating at The Woodworking Show in Portland this weekend. Thanks Charles for keeping everyone on track here.

I'll start with the original post -
The first thing is that the 5500 is rated at 160 seconds. Meaning that anything thicker than that is not sprayable by the tool. We do not suggest a perfect viscosity for latex because they vary so much and there are so many different kinds. So here's what I want you to do. Put your finger over the hole in the viscosity cup. Fill the cup with water, dump that into the gun, then fill with paint. Stir with the paddle mixer for two full minutes (will seem eternal). No Floetrol for wall painting, only for fine finish on wood (trim).

Now if you are painting a wall (there are better ways) and you want a roller texture, stick with the 2.0mm needle. If you don't want a roller texture put the 1.5mm needle in the gun. If the wall already has a roller texture, that is never going away.

10" is the farthest you will ever hold an HVLP gun from the project. You were there the entire time you were spraying. I would only be that far away if I were spraying a stucco wall or a rough sawn fence. For drywall I would be about 7"-8" max and for a finer finish be at 6". "Unless I got closer" - you're exactly right.

Also, of course, Charles is right, you had the fluid flow knob open too far. The air flow is a constant and if overloaded with fluid it can't atomize it all. It will atomize what it can and then spit the rest. When you're getting spit, cut down on the fluid flow.

You bought the 5500 for the right reasons (to paint trim) and then you did the worst project you can do with an HVLP. Painted a wall. Now, I've painted my entire house with the 5500, but just to prove it could be done. Not because it's what HVLP was meant for. I would roll my walls but do the cutting in with the 5500 using a shield. This way you match the stipples of the roller, instead of using a brush and creating lines that you then have to overwork to get rid of. A bedroom that would take me 45 minutes to cut in with a brush I can do in about 15 with the sprayer, perfectly.

There is no "ideal" viscosity for anything because there are too many variations. Temperature, humidity, different thinners, different sprayers, different people spraying, all of these things and more contribute to the "ideal". You can only find "ideal" for you, with that sprayer, with that particular coating and thinning, on that day. That is why I always say, find a finish and a supplier you like and stick with it. Don't mix different companies materials.

I may have missed something but I'm tired. Please post any other questions and I'll catch up as soon as I can.


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## mculik5 (Nov 13, 2013)

Wow! Thanks Earlextech. I think I'm beginning to see the bigger picture.

The paint I was spraying yesterday (135 seconds thick) was too thick. The tool can (and did) spray it, but I wasn't getting a smooth finish because whether I was using 1/2/3 turns of the flow control knob, the turbine doesn't produce enough pressure to properly atomize paint that thick and spray it at any reasonable rate. That said, the spray I was getting looked like I rolled it, which isn't terrible (just not the glassy-smooth finish I was expecting). However, for the same level of finish, rolling is much faster. My technique was also bad (too far away).

Before reading Earlextech's post tonight, I did an experiment. I thinned and tested over and over until I got to 60 seconds or less viscosity. I ended up at 80% thinned (8 oz paint, ~6.4 oz water) and 55 seconds. I tried this at 2 turns of the flow control knob and the same 9"-12" away as yesterday. The finish went from 36 grit to 60 grit. Still not great, but better. The big difference though was that when I tried different spray distances and flow levels, I could see a difference in finish quality. The finish got better (80 grit) if I moved in to "4-6" and better still if I reduced the flow to 1 turn. However, painting like this is painfully slow.

For those interested, tonight's scrap was a piece of MDF. I decided on the MDF because I figured it would show finish flaws better than the slightly textured drywall, and I also wanted to see if the thinned paint would stick without running. Somewhat surprisingly, the paint did stick and didn't run, and the color looks fine. So thinning to 80% can be done with OK results.

From all this, I think the takeaways are:

- The people who are getting good results spraying latex are probably spraying small projects (like trim) where they can reduce the flow rate, get close to the project, and tolerate the time it takes to produce a smooth layer of paint. And they are probably doing this using the 10% thinning technique.
- The 5500 can spray walls to a roller finish using the 10% thinning technique, but it's faster to actually roll.
- Per Earlextech's suggestion, using the 5500 for cutting in seems like a perfect idea. Same look as rolling, and faster than brushing. Again, using the 10% thinning technique.
- 45-60 seconds viscosity isn't realistic for latex (though it can be done). The people talking about this were probably talking about stains or other things.

So, I'll adjust my plans and try the 5500 for cutting in.

*Now, for the original purpsose - the trim - what is a good baseline mix for oil-based Ben Moore Satin Impervo? Should I follow the same 10% rule?*

Thanks! This forum is awesome.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

This thread is certainly interesting, and thanks to earlextech for his insight. As for the oil based paint, you don't have the same restrictions. With water borne finishes you can upset the internal chemistry adversely by thinning too much. The oil based ones are more forgiving; so thin it to get the results you want, and that will probably (but not necessarily) be more than 10%.


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## reedwood (Jan 27, 2011)

wow…much learned today. Thanks Earlex dude!

What is your secret formula for minwax oil base clear finish? one viscosity cup of thinner? Have you noticed if they changed the formulas so much, they are not as good? what is your favorite brand of OB clear finish?

imo - The texture from a roller (I prefer a 3/4 nap for new work, 1/2 for repaint) is so important to cover the different textures of drywall fuzz to mud. I found that a sprayer is more work with set up and clean up than it's worth and the results are not any better if not worse.

You would be stopping every 5 minutes to refill that heavy paint can. A pint of paint only covers about 8 - 10 ft. They use 5 gal sprayers in section 8 housing to satin paint bomb everything at once, trim, windows and walls…. yuk.

This is just from my remodeling experience. I'm sure there are spray guys that could show me some tricks, but I listen to my painters and so far, I like what I see.

One thing I would like to know, did you use blue tape on the trim after it was finished first with oil base? It seems like that would be the only way to keep the paint from getting under the spray shield a little, giving you a perfect cut line.

I like to finish the ceiling first, then the trim, blue tape, then the walls.
side note: I don't know why people like to cut in the walls to trim with a brush first. If you roll the walls first, you can carefully cut in as close as 1/2" from trim, closer if it's blue taped. That way you have the texture instead of 3" of brush strokes and it's so much faster. Grab a 4 ft. ladder and cut in sideways 1/2" to the ceiling too.

Btw - don't blue tape walls…it pulls fresh paint off.


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## mculik5 (Nov 13, 2013)

I can't answer the question about the clear finish. But here's some info on my project and my painting approach.

I'm renovating two bedrooms in my house. By renovate, I mean all new trim, new doors, new electrical, refinished floors, etc. Basically everything but tearing down the walls. As a result, I'm in the fortunate position of being able to paint the trim before I put it on the wall.

My house is old (1939) and has plaster walls. Where the walls meet the ceiling is not a nice clean line. There are bumps, etc. due to excess plaster. So even with a perfectly cut line, the transition from wall to ceiling still looks lousy. To solve this problem, I'm going to paint the ceiling about 1/8" or so onto the wall (below all the bumps in the corner) so that I can have a nice, clean line. So:

Step 1 - Paint the walls. Was planning to use the 5500 for this, but based on the feedback, will roll and use the 5500 to cut. Because all the trim is off, the only place I need to "cut" is where the walls meet the ceiling. However, because of the approach I'm taking (will make sense as you read), I don't need to worry about overspray onto ceiling. So basically, point the 5500 at the corner where walls meet ceiling and spray. No taping, maybe a cardboard shield.

Step 2 - Wait until the walls are completely dry. Then, run blue tape around the top of the room 1/8" or so down from the ceiling. I have a laser that I can mount on a pole that will help me keep my tape straight and level.

Step 3 - I've read that tape works a lot better if you seal the edge you are trying to keep. So, go around the room with the 5500 again, spraying the wall paint over the tape to seal the edge. Again, no need to worry about overspray, but maybe a cardboard shield to minimize wall paint getting on the ceiling.

Step 4 - Drape the room with plastic sheeting from the blue tape line to the floor. In my case, this will serve two purposes - 1, stop the ceiling paint from getting on walls, and 2 - create a room where I can spray the trim.

Step 5 - Put some ceiling paint in the 5500 and go around the room again. The purpose is to cover the paint that is above the tape line and maybe on the ceiling. Then roll the rest of the ceiling.

Step 6 - Spray the trim.

Step 7 - Install trim. Fill nail holes. Do a quick re-spray of the trim on the walls to cover the nail holes. Will most likely use the shield for this, but haven't figured this part out yet. Might be able to tuck a thin piece of sheet metal between the trim and the wall, or maybe even figure out a way to use the draped plastic and then pull it out after. Not sure, but not too worried.

Step 8 - Clean up.

Feedback on this approach is appreciated.


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## Craftsman70 (Jul 31, 2012)

I'd paint the ceiling first, then the walls. If it is that hard to cut in where the walls meet the ceiling, I'd highly consider just painting the walls and ceiling the same color (if you are going with something light and neutral. I've always hand cut in around the walls and ceiling shouldn't take longer than all the taping and plastic you are going to be doing.


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## casual1carpenter (Aug 16, 2011)

mculik5, did you take note where Sam {Earlextech} said to "Stir with the paddle mixer for two full minutes (will seem eternal)"? If I remember half right in a much older post Sam made a comment about latex paint sort of having long strings and the aggressive mixing is not as much to blend the latex and water but to sever or chop those strings. Sam or someone will likely correct my inadequate response, and I thank them for that in advance, but I do remember that aggressive power mixing would be of help with latex paint.


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## Tesla77 (Feb 6, 2012)

Had the same issue with my 5500 painting latex. Used Flotrol as well and had a viscocity of apx 115 seconds with a 2.5 tip. Splattered like crazy but it did seem to level out after drying. Marc Spagnuolo (The Wood Whisperer had the same problem and he found siwtching to the 1.5 tip helped tremendously.

Food for thought.


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## mculik5 (Nov 13, 2013)

@casual1carpenter - Yes, I did take note, and actually remember the post you are talking about. I mixed the paint for a while for both tests I did.

I'm planning to order the 1.5 tip for the trim and will give it a try with latex just to see. I remember another Earlextech post about the tip size impacting finish fineness and not having anything (or much) to do with paint thickness, so not surprised to learn it would help.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

a 1.5 will help, but bear in mind, your going to have to thin and cut back on the fluid, as Earlex explained, you have a fixed pressure and you can only atomize as much as the pressure, needle/nozzle can handle .

When your getting splatter, you have to reduce the fluid, its thats simple.

I just finished writing a book on finishing, here is basically how I explain it,

Everyone has held their thumb over a water hose to create a spray. If you have alot of pressure you can spray alot of water and break it up ( atomize) , on the other hand if you have low water pressure, you can still spray, but you have to close the opening on the hose wmore with your thumb, which reduces the amount of fluid as well as creates a smaller orifice the water is forced through.

In the thread oil base paint was addressed, its a solvent , you can thin it to any consistency you want with either naphtha or mineral spirits, so you can adjust the fluid to the gun, water base paint and finishes you have to adjust the gun to the material, but you can thin it , paint more than finishes,

As earlex stated you have to play with it, but contrary to many opinions, reducing the fluid and a smaller needle/nozzle makes a world of difference, just be aware that your also reducing the amount of material your applying so it will take longer .


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## ColinvanSchoor (Feb 20, 2016)

Hey I'm new to spraying and HVLP's as well and have the Earlex 6003 and I am having the same problem as above. I'm getting the 35grit look… Could do a quicker job of just rolling my trim. I have been playing with the fluid knob all day and getting different results. Half way through the day finally got a good finish down and then out of no where the paint seemed to separate on the trim i was painting. I had made sure that it was well mixed prior to this happening. I figured that i didn't do a good enough job so I remixed and tired again. same problem… anyone have this happen to them…. Does anyone know the viscosity rating for the 6003 I can't find anything one the subject anywhere. would using floetrol fix this problem and if so how much should I use. Im using the standard needle and tip i believe it is a 1.3-2.0 mm pro 8 gun. Should i change this? sorry for all the questing just a little disappointed with the outcome!


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## ClearBlueTape (Aug 23, 2016)

Learning to paint with an HVLP system (Earlex 5500) at work was one of the most frustrating experiences of my life. No matter what I did I got at least one of the following every time:

- Lumpy texture
- Rough texture
- Uneven Coverage
- Runs

I got it all sorted and now everything goes on glass smooth. Latex, alkyd, lacquer, shellac, Tung oil (real Tung oil, not the Formby's stuff) all lay down smooth. Here's what I ended up doing (In addition to the things below I built a 12'x24' cross draft paint booth which is a great thing, but not practical for everyone and not a prerequisite to good results).

- Huck the viscosity cup out the window.

- Thin the paint, then thin it some more. It's going to look way too thin when it's right, but it won't be (permanently altering the chemistry of the paint is one of those professional production precautions that doesn't apply to 99% of people and shouldn't have entered the lexicon of the general public). It takes 20 seconds to add a bit more solvent and creep up on a good viscosity. You'll learn more just going for it than you will trying to work out mix ratios. You'll get it figured out if you concentrate on painting, not mixing.

- The actual painting is fast. Really, really, really fast. You can put a coat of paint on one side of a refrigerator size object in about 15 seconds.

- Keep the gun kind of close 6"-8" to your target

- If you can't build a full blown ventilation system buy a pedestal fan and aim it right at the workpiece. Keep it as close as possible but still hitting the area(s) you're painting. If the fan was a person it would be in your personal space. The fan will resolve dry spray issues as well as drips. Leave the fan on the painted area for 20-30 seconds then move on.

- If you think it's a hassle to spray on another coat then speed up the gun movement. Remember, it's all really fast. Work toward faster all the time.

- Work on keeping the gun distance the consistent and directly pointed at the workpiece.

- Practice. Repaint your garage every few weeks if you've got nothing else to paint. The point is practice.


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## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

Or, I can find some painting practice for you   


> ...
> - Practice. Repaint your garage every few weeks if you ve got nothing else to paint. The point is practice.
> 
> - ClearBlueTape


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## JustLikeJames (Feb 14, 2014)

Old topic, I know. I'm just adding to it for anyone (like myself) who didn't find it when it was actively being discussed.

I tried Floetrol when I got my Earlex HV5500 and had no luck at all. It was as if the Floetrol made the paint sticky and even thicker.

Eventually I discovered XIM Latex X-Tender. I can add 1/2 of the viscosity cup full and spray latex well even though it doesn't seem thin enough (it never passes the viscosity cup test). Obviously, it would thin the paint if you used enough, but I never need to. I think it works by making the paint slippery rather than relying on it being thin. That's my thought at least. Regardless of what's actually happening, it works great for me.

It's not the right sprayer to paint entire walls, but it's great for trim, doors, and wood furniture projects.

Hope that helps somebody.


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