# Table saw bogging down and stopping half way through cut



## saltcod (Mar 31, 2015)

Hey all!

I'm a beginner - the title of this post gave that away =) - and I have a beginner table saw question.

I've got an old Delta contractor saw that my dad used to own - one with the tubular rails and the hard-to-true fence.

When I rip even thin 3/4 stock, my saw gets really bogged down. By the time I get to a 3-4 foot piece, the saw will sometimes even stop! The breaker hasn't tripped yet but the saw blade has actually brought up solid in the wood!

So the question then is, what's happening?

- I'm using a 60T crosscut blade - I probably shouldn't be ripping with this, but it should still do the job? Maybe needs to be sharpened? 
- The fence is extremely finnicky. Very difficult to set to true. Is is just jamming because it's isn't getting fed in straight?

Thanks!


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## ste6168 (Mar 12, 2015)

Just my gut thought, the wood is pinching on itself, no riving knife on that saw, causing the blade to a stop. When the saw starts to bind, is the beginning of the cut closed up?


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## saltcod (Mar 31, 2015)

The cut actually starts pretty good. For the first half, things really go along smoothly. I think it might be the wood pinching the back of the blade, yeah.

So I guess it is fence related.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

I agree with ste6168 above. What appears to be happening is that stresses in the wood due to drying are released when the wood is cut causing the gap (saw kerf) to close around the blade. This can be pretty much eliminated by using a riving knife the same width as the blade located just behind the saw blade. Also, make sure the saw blade is cleaned of resin from past use. I use plain ole oven cleaner for the job. Works great, smells awful, and irritates the hands and skin. Don't breathe the mist from the spray can.

Suggestion: Try other pieces of a different wood to see if you have the same problem. If not, its the stressed wood as mentioned above. If you have the same problem, it may be that your fence and saw blade are not parallel. In essence, you are pushing wood "sideways" through the saw. Most saw fences have a way of adjusting the fence angle, usually by loosening a couple of bolts.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

60T is a lot, but it also depends on the particular blade. Get a good quality blade with fewer teeth for most ripping….keep it clean and sharp. It's best to flatten and straighten wood prior to ripping….wood that's rocking and twisting puts more resistance on the saw. The saw's alignment is always really important. Check that the fence is flat and perferctly aligned with the blade and the splitter.

http://lumberjocks.com/knotscott/blog/12395


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## saltcod (Mar 31, 2015)

thanks for the blade resource! I definitely need to get a decent rip blade.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

Get half way through and turn your wood end over end and finish that way. Make sure your blade and fence re parallel to each other.


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## saltcod (Mar 31, 2015)

Thanks dhazelton. I've been doing that, but it leaves an awful edge when you pull it back. Love to juts be able to push straight through - a fairly basic requirement =)


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## saltcod (Mar 31, 2015)

man that's a lot of info about blades.

I'd love the tl;dr version =)

"Buy this rip blade: "


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

What Ste168 said

Also with the small horsepower on the motor a thin kerf saw blade is best to use also.

I do not know you but I will loan you a DVD I have on Tablesaws on how to fix them and maintain them.
Just send me a PM with your mailing info if you wish to borrow it.


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## conifur (Apr 1, 2015)

There is 2 types of this older saw, the one I have the motor is below the saw table but is internally belt driven, and I have tripped the reset button on mine once. The other style the motor in in back of the saw with a external belt. What concerns me is that the saw is not tripping its overload. It could be if you have the external belt driven saw a loose belt or and worn out belt.


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## saltcod (Mar 31, 2015)

Conifur - it's a Delta XL-10 - about 20-25 years old by now I'd say. Direct drive. Not a belt in site!

Yeah….it's extremely unsafe. The blade just locks up and then un-locks-up at any time when you pull the stock back.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

> man that s a lot of info about blades.
> 
> I d love the tl;dr version =)
> 
> ...


Irwin Marples 24T - ~ $30

Freud Diablo 24T - ~$30

The 40T version of either would also be good for general purpose stuff.


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## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

Do you have any type of splitter/riving knife? If not, you should look into making a zero clearance insert (ZCI) that incorporates a splitter. On my previous saw, I always used a small piece of wood glued into the kerf slot as a splitter (see this link). Another option is the MJ Splitter from MicroJig. I've never used them but read lots of good reviews.


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## saltcod (Mar 31, 2015)

I've thought about that too. Frank Howarth has made some of these as well


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## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

If blade stops, do not pull back the stock…turn the saw off and figure out/fix what caused the bind up 



> ...
> Yeah….it s extremely unsafe. The blade just locks up and then un-locks-up at any time when you pull the stock back.
> 
> - saltcod


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## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

Doesn't look like he integrated a splitter into his. For the problem you are having, that is key part.


> I ve thought about that too. Frank Howarth has made some of these as well
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## saltcod (Mar 31, 2015)

aah! wrong video!


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Whatever the cause, you NEED to get that saw repaired before you get hurt badly.
Blade, fence, splitter, etc. All work together to give you a successful cut.
Check it out before we see pics of some awful accident.
Bill


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## TechTeacher04 (Mar 17, 2014)

Consider adjusting the fence a couple thousands wider at the back of the blade than the front. this can help prevent binding. Secondly are you creating smoke or showing burn marks on the work piece you are cutting? If yes, you are definitely pinching the blade which can cause a nasty kick-back situation. Third, if this is a direct drive motor you are not getting belt slip, your motor brushes could be warn. Direct drive motors do not have the benefit of vibration dampening afforded by using belts to transmit power.


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## RichardHillius (Oct 19, 2013)

I am wondering if your fence is slightly cupped causing your work to push into the back of the blade as you rip. If you line the fence up with the miter slot at the front of the table and feel with your fingers for places where it might not be in alignment along it's length does it seem to be parallel and straight? You may have the blade out of alignment with the miter slot as well which requires a fairly simple measuring gig or combo square but checking the fence is a good place to start. To check the blade is parallel to the miter slot you can take a combo square with the body resting in the miter slot and set the measuring blade so it just contacts a front tooth when as close to you as possible, than mark that tooth with a sharpy and rotating it to the back and check again. If they match than the blade is parallel to the miter slot.

I would suggest you figure this out before you use the saw again as it's very dangerous as it stands right now.


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

Do you measure the fence distance from the front and back of the blade?

If not you are making it cut out of parallel which will kill the blade and wood.


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## saltcod (Mar 31, 2015)

I'll have to try a much more careful fence alignment.

It's reallllly difficult to set it exactly. Actually, talking this out….maybe I shouldn't be using this saw at all.

I have a portable Ridgid saw as well…...maybe I should just stick to using that.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

I'd say get it aligned and put a rip blade on it.


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

I would sell the Rigid and put that cash towards a better fence. A saw is a blade, table and motor. A fence is the thing that makes everything else work well. I can not stress how important a good fence is. I have seen a guy with a cheap C-man set up with tables all around it so he could handle sheet stock. But he had a B-Myer fence on it and was popping out some nice furniture.

If your fence is bad it is the same as taking the steering wheel off a sportscar.

Not a perfect analogy but a perfect analogy is that which you are making the analogy about.



> I ll have to try a much more careful fence alignment.
> 
> It s reallllly difficult to set it exactly. Actually, talking this out….maybe I shouldn t be using this saw at all.
> 
> ...


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

There may not be that much wrong with the saw, but as you've already figured out with TS's it the fence, stupid ;-). I would check it out before giving up on it. I'm not familiar with those fences, but maybe there's some worn bushings, etc..

As a general rule don't rip anything other than plywood with a cross cut blade, especially with a low-power machine.

Blades stopping in the wood commonly happens in low power machines running a dull blade.
And its def not good for motor, right? For those of us who have them, this is why alot of guys eventually reach a point where they step up to a full on 3-5HP cabinet saw.

Binding is generally caused by one or more of the following:

1. Fence not parallel to blade.
2. Fence not keeping settings.
3. Stress-filled wood warping when it comes out of cut (not as common/splitters are a must).

What to do:

1. Do a through inspection and alignment check before cutting another piece of wood. There are videos and articles on Fine Woodworking and other place on alignment checks.

2. If the saw checks out, then get some decent blades. I recommend a couple blades for this type saw:

1. Thin kerf ripping 24-30 tooth. Freud is a good value and available at HD.
2. Thin kerf crosscut 60 tooth. Again, Freud.
3. Find a sharpening service and use them!!
4. Stay with the thin kerf blades on 1 1/2 HP machines.
5. Get a set of stabilizing washers you need them with thin kerf blades.

In addition to blades, you'll want:

1. A zero clearance insert if you don't already have one. Do not use the factory insert you'll regret it one day!
2. Make or buy yourself some push blocks (I'm not a fan of push STICKs)
3. You probably don't have a riving knife-capable saw, so make or buy a splitter. I recommend Micro Jig.

*Last but not least: SAFETY.*

I left this for last but really you should do this first. There are videos and articles all over the place on TS safety.

Keep in mind when using a dull and/or wrong blade, you are increasing your risk of injury greatly due to the fact that you have to push alot harder to run the material through the machine. One slip and your hand can be in the blade. Forcing wood through a machine is almost always not going to be a good thing. Just one more illustration why just about anything you do in ww'ing require sharp (and I mean sharp) tools.

Personal protection such as safety glasses and a respirator are needed especially when dealing with plywood, and* especially* MDF or particle board because they are full of toxic chemicals.

Good luck & let us know how you do.


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

This:
http://www.amazon.com/Delta-Power-Tools-78-919BT2-Biesemeyer/dp/B00CUIZNZC/ref=sr_1_1/181-6259391-8218003?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1434039203&sr=1-1&keywords=biesemeyer+commercial+fence
Will make you bless the day you were born.

This:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Aluma-Classic-Fence-Standard/W1716
Will also work.

For me, I have been a fen of Biesemeyer since the get-go. Looks like the cash is the same. and if you want to save money you can buy the rectangular tube separate from a steel dealer. Make sure it is nice and straight. The second shop I worked at the boss used a B-Meyer on a piece of tube he bought separate. The thing would go out +8". Mounted on a PM66…oh, man, that was a work horse. You know you have the set-up when you can take half a kerf off the end of a sheet of plywood.


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## saltcod (Mar 31, 2015)

Woah Robert! What a post - thank you!


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## saltcod (Mar 31, 2015)

Thanks SirIrb!

I'm still debating doing just that actually.

The debate is between buying a fence and continuing to mess with this one, or buying a new King saw for about $1150 http://www.kingcanada.com/Products.htm?CD=82&ID=21350

I can save $1000 by just buying the fence now, but I don't want to spend more money than I need to wastefully. If I'm better off spending the $1150 now, I'd prefer to just do that.

The old Delta XL-10 still runs great, and my dad has put a ton of hours on it, so it's been a dependable saw. But I do want to get to a place where I can actually make cuts instead of messing with the alignment for the hour or so that I have in the evenings. The movements are decent, but a little sluggish. I guess there's a lot of dust built up in the gears. It's also a right tilt which isn't ideal.

I went to the dealer today and looked at both the King saw and the Sawstop - both real nice machines. But at the same time, it would be great to have to only spend $2-300 on a new fence and get a whole new saw experience.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

With a good blade and correctly aligned, that is actually a very capable saw. Make sure the miter slots are parallel to the blade, and that the fence is parallel to the miter slots. One thing that is not mentioned in the manual for that saw is proper rear lock tension adjustment. The fence is a cheaper version of the Delta jet lock, but its adjustment procedure is basically identical. To adjust the fence lock tension, the procedure is:



> When the clamp lever is all the way down, clamping action on the front and rear guide rails should be equal. If clamping action on the rear guide rail is more or less than clamping action of front guide rail, an adjustment of the rear clamp is made by turning [the adjusting] screw [on the front of the fence]. Turning the screw clockwise will increase tension and turning it counter-clockwise will decrease tension. When lowering [the] clamp lever slowly, you will notice clamp action on front guide rail first and as lever is moved downward to its lowest position, clamp action will take place on rear guide rail.


Once properly set, adjust the fence parallel to the miter slots as described on page 15.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: It also sounds like a good cleaning and some dry lube on the guts may help with the 'sluggish' problem


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

What the heck? You didnt say you had the cabinet saw option on the table. I cant let you waste you time going forward. Stop now. Alto.

Buy the cabinet saw and light up a nice Cohiba cigar. Working on a nice cabinet saw is relaxing compared to trying to tweak a saw that just isnt as heavy and as well made as a contractors saw.

[Shakes head in disappointment]

If I knew that option was on the table I wouldnt have even mentioned a new fence.



> Thanks SirIrb!
> 
> I m still debating doing just that actually.
> 
> ...


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## saltcod (Mar 31, 2015)

hahahaha! SirIrb! My wife does't completely agree that a new cabinet saw is on the table YET.

I looked at that King this morning again for the 100th time and it really looks like a nice saw. Solid, well built, 2 year warranty and best of all, extremely well supported by the dealer and the manufacturer.

The sales guy said he almost never has issues with these saws - outside of any right-out-of-the-box issues caused during shipping or whatever. Not a bad deal for $1150+tax. But again, that's $1000 more than just getting a fence for the saw I have =)


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## saltcod (Mar 31, 2015)

Wow MrUnix! THanks for that tip. I'm really not able to get the fence square using the instructions from that manual. Will try your suggestion!


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> I looked at that King this morning again for the 100th time and it really looks like a nice saw. Solid, well built, 2 year warranty and best of all, extremely well supported by the dealer and the manufacturer.
> 
> The sales guy said he almost never has issues with these saws - outside of any right-out-of-the-box issues caused during shipping or whatever. Not a bad deal for $1150+tax. But again, that s $1000 more than just getting a fence for the saw I have =)


LOL - what did you expect the sales guy to say! You might want to check out this review of the King KC-10JCS that was posted recently before you go any further. Keep in mind that those are just re-badged asian imports. King doesn't make them, just imports and stores them in a warehouse… and from what I've seen, are on the lower end of the quality scale.

Cheers,
Brad


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## saltcod (Mar 31, 2015)

Sigh. I actually hadn't seen that review.

Probably too good to be true to get a decent saw for around $1000.

Before the suggestions about the used market flood in, there's almost nothing on the used market here. What does show up is almost the same as retail price.

Two examples:

https://www.nlclassifieds.com/Chards-Construction-GENERAL-Table-Saw-With-Self-Feeder-Bonavista-Newfoundland-NLCId1766609

https://www.nlclassifieds.com/Tool-Shed-Cutting-55-Delta-Table-Saw-Burin-Newfoundland-NLCId1766541


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## dschlic1 (Jan 3, 2013)

I have an old (1990's) Craftsman contractor saw. When I purchased the saw off of Craig's List it had the OEM fence which was not good. I retro fitted a Vega Pro 40 fence to the saw. I can rip a 3" thick piece of yellow pine six feet long without problems.

I would recommend getting an after market fence. If you are not into metal working, I suggest that you get a fence that comes with the rails.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

You don't pull the board back out of the cut - you just push down on the end and lift the board out of the cut.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

> Sigh. I actually hadn t seen that review.
> 
> Probably too good to be true to get a decent saw for around $1000.
> 
> - saltcod


The Grizzly G0771 is getting pretty reports so far: ($625 USD plus s/h)
http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Hybrid-Table-Saw/G0771


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## warrenski (May 31, 2015)

If this is happening with all of your ripping, it is unlikely the wood's fault. If you have not yet tried Robert's suggestion (above) I'd add my recommendation to his.

The first (and least expensive) culprit to eliminate is if your blade is not aligned and you just have to tune up your saw (dial the blade in to be perfectly parallel with your fence). I'd check that before investing in another blade. Even a brand new saw might need tuning.

There are lots of youtubes on how to tune a table saw. You might find it easiest if you have the original owner's manual-or perhaps you can find it on line. It's not a difficult operation, costs nothing, and if this is the problem you will still have it after you have spent any amount of money on new blades.

Google "How to tune a table saw." Not only does it cost nothing, you will understand your saw much better after you do it.


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## saltcod (Mar 31, 2015)

Quick update!

I played with the fence literally all night and finally got it aligned decently.

I bought a Freud 40T general purpose blade today and it cuts MUCH MUCH better, as many said it would. I debated getting a dedicated 24T but I'm glad I opted for this in the end.

Still though, by the end of the cut, the machine is having to work way harder to finish. So it looks like I'll need to try and make one of those zero clearance inserts with a splitter in the back.

And I thnk I definitely need to spring for a new fence. This one is just terrible.

Thanks for the tips everyone!


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## saltcod (Mar 31, 2015)

ooh ps: talking to my dad last night, he actually bought a Unifence for this saw years ago, but doesn't know where it is anymore =(

sad!


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

Did you verify that the table (miter slots) were properly aligned with the blade before messing with the fence? Also, instead of shooting for a perfect parallel with the fence to miter slots, many suggest kicking the rear end of the fence out by a few thousandths to prevent pinching. Just a thought.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: Shame about that Unifence… it would be a great upgrade for that saw.


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## saltcod (Mar 31, 2015)

Hey Brad

The mitre slots and the blade do seem to line up pretty good.

A little hard to tell because the blade wobbles very slightly when you just turn it with your fingers. But I spent a lot of time measuring last night it does seem to be pretty close.

With a brand new blade, how much force should be required to push a piece of 3/4 plywood through this saw? I've never used a better saw, so I really have nothing to compare it to.

By the time you reach the last 3-4" of stock, you need to give it a good push to get it through. Again, not exactly safe.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> The mitre slots and the blade do seem to line up pretty good.
> 
> A little hard to tell because the blade wobbles very slightly when you just turn it with your fingers. But I spent a lot of time measuring last night it does seem to be pretty close.


The blade should not 'wobble' when turned by a finger… at least not as long as you are using the same saw tooth as the reference. You may have an issue with the bearings depending on how much run out you are seeing. IIRC, that is a more or less direct drive machine, isn't it? If so, then the bearings in the motor/arbor might need to be checked out and possibly replaced.

3/4" plywood should cut like butter on that saw when in proper condition - particularly with a new blade.

Cheers,
Brad


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## saltcod (Mar 31, 2015)

Thanks again Brad!

Oh the blade definitely wobbles. It goes at least a 1/16th while you turn it. Straight as a whip while turned on of course, but otherwise wobbly for sure. It is indeed a direct drive machine.

This is turning into quite a project!

Are most table saws this much trouble to get in tune? I've spent a ton of hours with this guy already!


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> Oh the blade definitely wobbles. It goes at least a 1/16th while you turn it. Straight as a whip while turned on of course, but otherwise wobbly for sure. It is indeed a direct drive machine.


1/16" ain't good 

You need to figure out why it has so much run out and address that first. Sounds like new bearings might be needed, particularly given the age of the machine. Bearings don't last forever and are considered a normal maintenance item. On a direct drive machine, they are a bit harder to replace but still not all that difficult. It might be a good idea to replace them anyway - they are probably the originals and getting a bit loose. Would also give you the chance to clean out the motor and check for other problems.

Cheers,
Brad


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## RichardHillius (Oct 19, 2013)

> ooh ps: talking to my dad last night, he actually bought a Unifence for this saw years ago, but doesn t know where it is anymore =(
> 
> sad!
> 
> - saltcod


It might be worth a few hours of your time helping him look for it if you can. I can't imagine there are that many places a fence like that could hide.


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## saltcod (Mar 31, 2015)

Out of curiosity, I just put that new Freud 40T in my portable Ridgid saw and it cut the same piece of plywood like butter. So it looks like I have a lot of work to do with the Delta.

The difference between the two saws is just incredible. The Delta runs with just a quiet humm and the Ridgid sounds like a car going through a shredder.

Maybe I'll take the whole thing apart and give it a good cleaning and look over. Maybe by that time the fence will have shown up somewhere.


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## conifur (Apr 1, 2015)

Surre hope you bought a thin kerf blade, they are 25% thinner then a regular blade, 25% less wood to cut. But it sounds like you have a bigger problem to resolve, good luck with it.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

> Woah Robert! What a post - thank you!
> 
> - saltcod


You're very welcome.

After doing this 20 some years I'm just doing my part to help an beginner.

Just a little followup that might save you something :

I wish I knew way back when but like alot of people, I wanted a TS and bought an old Craftsman off a friend- the ones with the HORRIBLE fences probably made in the 60's - and it wasn't long before I proceeded to cut the corner off my left thumb. I had no concept of safety. Didn't know a push block from a push rod. I was working with a totally unsafe machine, but it was still my fault. I know I got off easy but that was all it took. My malformed thumb serves as a reminder that cheap tools are often unsafe tools AND safety starts in the brain!

I want to add that it took me awhile but take time to examine your wood don't just run it through a machine. This is especially true with a planer or jointer because you have to have the grain oriented to avoid chip out.

Even with a TS, its crucial to look at your wood before you run it (loose knots, make sure jointed edge is against fence, etc.) Taking time to think it through before you make a cut (could it bind? is the waste to left of blade, not between blade and fence, kickback potential = where will I stand, etc etc.)

I agree with Brad - check those bearings. That is a huge amount of runout.

You will want a rip blade for solid wood. That 40 T blade won't last long or do a very good job in the saw you have. Also, you'll want a 60 tooth ATB for plywood or if you want really nice crosscuts in solid wood.

Keep us posted on you're progress.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Sounds like you've made some improvements but the fundamental problem is still present. Are you using an extension cord? Universal motors are very sensitive to input voltage, too long a run, or too a small cord will cause a loss of power. After making a few cuts, feel the extension cord plug or if not using one, feel the plug and power cord on the saw; if they are warm you have a problem.


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