# Framing a roof. Stick or trusses?



## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

Another oh-I'm-second-guessing-myself-again question on this 8×10 garden shed build…

Simple gable roof. 6:12 pitch. Gables over the 8ft width. I'm carrying a 4×6 beam the full length of the top of the 10ft walls and the beams will cantilever 1 foot at the back and 2 feet at the front.

Roof framing. I haven't framed a roof in over 35 years except for a couple of shed roofs (is that really framing?). If I stick build it, I need 2×6 rafters on 16 centers and a 14ft 2×8 ridge board (that will get cut down to 13 feet). Cost is about $130-ish for framing lumber to stick build. Just for laughs, I asked a local truss place to quote it. Total of $250 for trusses delivered.

It's 10 rafter pairs to stick build, so 20 rafters to cut. I know once I get the first pair it's simply "rinse and repeat" using the first as a pattern, but again…. haven't done this in a REALLY long time.

How would YOU do it? About 99% of the time I'm working alone. I'd enlist the aid of my son to roll trusses. It would be 7 trusses (2ft spacing).


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

I'd hang the rafters on the ridge beam with rafter hangers. Once you get one rafter birdmouthed correctly, the rest are a slam dunk. No need to raise trusses. Just stick build it. If you feel you need lateral support, like a truss, then you can add cross supports. I would nail them in place near the ridge beam to provide extra head room.

In other words, each rafter pair can form a triangle truss, but you don't have to pre-build them before you raise them.

And I'd save money by using 24" centers on the roof, unless you fear snow loads or something.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

for an 8×10 garden shed, I wouldn't even bother with birds mouths. Use hanger on both ends. Easy as pie, done in a flash.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

No bigger than what the shed is I would just build the roof from scratch. If you haven't done something like this for a long while you can get a good barn and shed building book from the big box boys for fifteen bucks and and just refresh your mind by looking at the pictures. I think this is the best plan.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## BJODay (Jan 29, 2013)

Charlie,

You don't need a 2" ridge board, 1", (3/4") is enough. It is really just an attachment point.

If you go with trusses, consider the weight. They may be too heavy or awkward for one person to raise and place.

If it's a small project I would stick build for the enjoyment.

BJ


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

Yeah, good points…my thought too was that it's very much over-engineered. I would just use double 2×4s for the wall plates and a single 2×6 for the ridge beam. I just figured those were part of a design Charlie wants, and if so, then that's fine.


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## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)

" $130-ish for framing lumber to stick build" 
"Total of $250 for trusses delivered"

I'm thinking that in the time (and energy) it takes you to go buy the lumber, bring it home, unload it, do all the measuring , cutting and assembling, you could have them delivered, set and probably even have it sheeted in the same time. (Providing your son will help you as you said)

If the extra few bucks isn't an obstacle, I'd order the trusses.


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

Of COURSE it's over-engineered. 
Anything worth doing is worth OVERdoing… hehehe.

and yes, I'm overthinking this. It's what I *DO*. <grin> and, oh my, I wrote that it's a 6:12 pitch, but it's not… it's a 12:12.

Basically that makes the rafter cuts all 45s. I know the ridge board doesn't need to be that heavy. A 1x is minimum. A 2x just doesn't cost that much more.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

I built a similar sized garden shed all alone. I did the rafters from scratch as they were easy to lift piece by piece. I didn't use any steel connection plates, just nails, but I use some wooden gussets at inside peak to strengthen the rafter joining. I did prefab the walls on my flat wooden terrace which my wife helped me move into place. The structure gets pretty solid when the roof beams are nailed on and the walls are anchored to the cement pad it sits on. that makes it stable and easy to work on top. I clamped a temporary board at each end to support the ridge beam which I then temporarily nailed into place until I could get some rafters up.

Good luck with your build!


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

That's cool, Charlie. What you NEED to do and what you WANT to do are two different things. No big deal, as its hard to go wrong…unless of course you are this guy:

Shed of Doom.....


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

stefang,
yeah I have a 24×24 patio about 20 feet from where the walls will go. I'm sure once I get started on it, it'll work out. It will be more fun to stick frame the roof rather than roll trusses up there.


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## Tugboater78 (May 26, 2012)

Built my 8×10 with stick and plywood pieces and liquid nail and some screws to join the peak on each. Added a 10×10 on the side a couple weeks ago, done the same way. My 230 lb self was trying to pull them down before i sheathed by hanging from them and tryin to be a gymnast, they never gave a sign of. Giving way.


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## Tugboater78 (May 26, 2012)

Using my phone to post on this site makes me angry, you wouldnt like me when im angry… grrr

No ridge beam, ive tore down too many century+ houses that had nothing but a couple nails holding the peak together. But used 2×4 cutoffs between each set of beams to space them, before sheathing too. I will be tying a couple together at the top of the walls with 2×6s on the new part, majnly for some lumber storage though.


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

I think there's actually a point at which a ridge board isn't needed. Has something to do with the pitch if I remember right. Steeper pitch transfers more to the walls. Low pitch puts more stress on the ridge and that board acts more like a beam. Up to about 1860 there is a lot of "fork and tenon" and they're pegged at the top. Between around 1860 and 1905-1930 (depends what part of the country you're in) they were simply mitered at the peak. After that they switched to using a ridge board. I used to do inspections here, but again….. long time ago


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## ChuckC (May 13, 2010)

Depending on the truss design you may lose a lot of space in the loft area. Just something to consider.


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## sprucegum (Dec 6, 2012)

I often build my own trusses for small buildings 2 X 4 trusses are plenty heavy enough for your small building. You can use glue nailed plywood for the gussets. I usually get the local lumber yard to send for a quote from the truss mfg. then steal their design. The salesman at the yard is a friend and he could care less as long as I buy the materials from him.







The gussets in this case are 3/8 steel plate oh yes I also do common rafters this one is a 10/12 joining a 12/12 there is a reason they call it a bastard valley LOL

Trusses will be much easier to work with common rafters are a pain in the butt on a short span. Here is a small set we threw together last summer.


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## widdle (Mar 10, 2010)

I think your original plan is good…snap out a 4' section of your 12/12 pitch on a sheet of ply..and all your info will be right there…birdsmouths are needed for nailing , conventional framing is done for a reason…dont skip steps…


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

sprucegum, not allowed to build my own trusses for this (or anything else) per town inspector. I had to get a permit to build this little 8×10 building. 

You and I both know that simple trusses like this …. I mean c'mon… the truss place has them with 2×4s for top and bottom chord with a single vertical (web) in the center. Done. Oh and that's 2×4 on 24" centers

Doesn't matter. I'm ordering lumber tomorrow. I need to get out of "analysis paralysis" and actually get started… hehehe


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

2 by 10 ridge beam, 2 by 6 rafters cut to the beam and bird mouths at the walls and maybe collar ties halfway up the roof pitch.


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## Buckethead (Apr 14, 2013)

Some nice work^^^.

I would recommend simply cutting the rafters. Yes. Cut the bird mouths. It's easy.

If you are framing a gable, it is easier for the roof cutting, but leaves a bit more work for the wall framing.

Easy math: width of building devided by 2 minus half the width of your ridge.i would use 1 1/2" stock. 2×8 would be my preference when using 2×6 rafters. If you tell me the actual dimensions I can figure the rafter length for you. Basically it is Asquared times Bsquared equals Csquared, (sorry… Don't know how to represent exponent in text on my tablet) throw in a couple collar ties or ceiling joists to prevent sag in the future.

I would also say that 16" on center rafters is overkill unless a heavy snow load is anticipated.

You could opt for something more decorative. (Like the site built trusses shown in the previous commenters post. Sweet!) if this is the case, consider using some old fencing slats to mimic a tongue and groove roof deck exposed at the interior. Ply above it. A trick I did here:








The second picture shows a small loft, which in this case, eliminated the need for collar ties or ceiling joists.









Well….. I don't know how to rotate those photos but they came out oriented 90 degrees off. They are of a similar structure to what you describe, 10×10 playhouse with loft using an old wooden play set, some fencing, and some new materials.

Build your walls and brace them plumb level and square, then cut one rafter. Use it as a template. Get a helper to set the ridge or on something only ten feet wide, you could manage yourself. Anywho… I'm rambling, but if you would like me to figure the rafters for you, I'd be happy to help. If you have never cut a rafter, it is quite easy, you just need the mental picture, a speed square or framing square, a pencil, a saw, and a power source. The power source can be your own elbow grease.  good luck!


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

go 16" on centers on the roof, you can thank me later….


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## Buckethead (Apr 14, 2013)

In the playhouse structure I posted, we did go with 16" oc rafters, but it was purely for aesthetic purposes. We cut a simple quarter rounded end cut on the tails, and wanted more rafters to exhibit that feature. Structurally, if no heavy snow load is likely, there is no reason to spend the money. If the structure is purely utility, I'd save the twenty bucks.

I have very limited experience and knowledge as it pertains to fine joinery, but as for rough framing, I have quite a bit of experience.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

I suppose it depends on the area and the weather. In Oklahoma we use rafters 24 inches on center. The ceiling joists are 16 inches on center. We use 2×6's for raters and adjust the joists according to the span. You should be able to use 2×6's easily on this little shed. The ridge pole is usually a 2×6 or 2×8. The pitch can change things. If you are using a 12/12 pitch then the verticle cross section is substantila even on a 2×4. I have seen lots of OLD homes with 2×4 rafters with a steep pitch. These are a hundred years old ( that is old in our country). We didn't become a state until 1907. We design for wind load. It is greater than our snow load. The thing you HAVE to do is talk to the inpsecter and keep him happy. Don't use screws. They break easier than nails. Easy to use and hold well but also break easily.


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## sprucegum (Dec 6, 2012)

Wonder how we got by without the $%^# regulators? I guess I am fortunate where I live under 100 sq ft does not require permit or inspection as long as it meets set backs. Unless of course it is agricultural then any size no permit still needs to meet setbacks.


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

I talked to the inspector today about exactly how I'm planning to build this.

*TECHNICALLY* if I use a 2×6 rafter on a 12:12 pitch, that would result in a cut end at the ridge of about 7-3/4". Bigger than a 2×8 so *technically* I'd have to go to a 2×10. He said he doesn't care. "It's a shed. I'm not terribly particular about a shed and I know you'll overbuild it anyways." Basically he wouldn't care if I used a 2×6 for the ridge board 

So… lumber is ordered and I'm just going to build a darn shed. I have the door but not the windows. Supposed to get 2 windows 24×36. The online literature tells me the ROUGH is 24×36 and the window is, of course, something less than that actually. I hate framing without having things on hand, but worst case would be moving a stud and redoing some jacks. Or frame it big and bring it in with stock if necessary…


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## jackthelab (Jan 10, 2011)

I built my own trusses. Once you get the angles set, as mentioned earlier wash, rinse and repeat. I did the work by myself as well. Good luck with the build.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

I am a home inspector so I see things I don't even want to see. Much more than I want to see. I recently called the city inspector (one of them anyway that has a reputation for being the Wyatt Earp of inspectors). I wanted to know where the city stood on an issue.I asked my question and he told me if the homeowner installed the water heater then they could do what they wanted. He inspects the licensed people. What happened to having the amateur inspected and the licensed person is supposed to know the code?? I couldn't believe he actually told me what I was hearing. You never know what you will hear. I also live in the rural part of a rural area. I can pretty well do what I want…..most of the time….so far. That will probably change next year but the local boys won't care. Only that they don't have a job.


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## kizerpea (Dec 2, 2011)

Go to lowes an buy a swanson speed square…comes with a little blue book that tells you how to use the square.even tells the rafter lenght an pitch


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## nwbusa (Feb 21, 2012)

Where I live, 10 sq meters (~108 sq ft) or less doesn't require a permit. I'm building my second shed on my property, but it's just a 5' x 10' lean-to with a flat roof. Easy build and I get the trash cans and recycling bins out of the garage (I mean, shop!). Good times.


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## Tugboater78 (May 26, 2012)

Where i live in town i could tear down my house and build a gentlemans club out of pallets and noone would fault me.. gotta love living a century behind the rest of the country!


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## Beginningwoodworker (May 5, 2008)

I was taught to build my own trusess for small sheds, but you can stick the roof as well.


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## reedwood (Jan 27, 2011)

Nice comments from the guys and it sounds like you have a plan but I'm curious,

why are you making the walls ten feet tall? If you want to save money and build a "standard" size building based on standard size materials you should make them 8 ft.

Between the 10 ft. walls and the 12/12 pitch this 8×10 shed is going to look like a castle! It will be almost 14 ft. tall! Are you storing canoes upright? Ha! JK!!!

What is the pitch on your existing house or garage/ nearest structure? It seems like that would be the pitch to match - unless it's a 12/12!.... it's too steep! IMO unless you like the Victorian look it's way out of proportion.

It will add material costs in roofing and you won't be able to walk on it to shingle it… no big deal but worth mentioning.

Trusses are a joke on a structure this small. Plus, they take up all that ceiling room inside and have limited capacity for storage. You could vault the ceiling (no joists) and leave it wide open if you used a 2×8 ridge beam or that 4×6 beam - which I personally like the look of.

One little note: 
you could cheat and draw a big full scale drawing of the gable on two pieces of plywood on the ground. Just measure the rafters on the drawing. Cut your birds mouth and the ridge cut on a pair of rafters, set your beam dead center, hold them in place and check them for a good fit.

Make adjustments to the angle BEFORE you cut all the 2×6 rafters. A gap more than an 1/8" should be recut. Mine are always tight.

16" centers are best. If you go with 24" centers, I would suggest going with 5/8" plywood. The roofing nails are going to stick through so don't buy them too long.

Lastly, get some help at least on the first day from a carpenter who knows how to do this. It gets real ugly if you start off wrong and say, "It doesn't matter, it's just a shed." Start straight, level and square or pay dearly.

Damn it sounds like fun! lets all have a barn raising! I'll bring the beer!


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## Buckethead (Apr 14, 2013)

10×10 footprint. Did roofing using an 8' ladder, but my wall height was only 6'4" (it's a playhouse)

The roofing was very quick and easy. You can roof it from an extension ladder, but it does require mobility and nimbleness.
If I recall correctly, we started off doing a 12/12, but opted for a 10/12 midstream to lower the profile. The client's house was a 10/12 as well so it did not look out of place at all.


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

Not sure why you thought the walls were 10 feet tall. They're 8 ft tall.
The 12:12 pitch is because that's what my wife wants and it's her garden shed.  It's over in a far back corner of the yard. The pitch on the house and shop are 4:12 and 6:12 I think. Been a while, but the house is easier to walk than the shop  ..and I've done 12:12 before and this is pretty small. 12:12 is walkable but I'll still have jacks for safety. I'm too old to be sliding off a roof even if it's only about a 7 ft drop. I've ordered the 5/8 roof sheathing (plywood, not OSB) mostly because I don't like the springy feel of the 1/2 inch decking.

Originally I checked into trusses just for the speed of putting it together, but I've settled on stick framing it. I have time. I'm retired. And it actually got easier for me when she decided on the 12:12 pitch. She wants it to look like a little cottage or something. Whatever. I just cut wood. This is the same woman who encouraged me to make all of our kitchen cabinets and figured, "They're just boxes. How hard can it be?" 

I'll over-build it. It'll be fine. I'll be able to modify practically any part of it, and in the end…. she'll be happy to have her own space. For me, I have to just build it and move on. I have other stuff to do too.


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## Buckethead (Apr 14, 2013)

Lol! Happy wife… Happy life!

I love this topic, perhaps because its my 'wheelhouse'.

One other teency consideration is the fasteners from your roofing protruding through the sheathing. On my project we addressed this by using old fencing slats to mimic a tongue and groove from the underside and using 5/8 CDX Plywood on top. You could use many products like this. Beadboard would look really nice… And cottagey. Pricey too.

For our project, we used an existing play set for framing and beams, and fence slats for the interior siding and faux exposed roof decking. I don't consider myself particularly environmentally conscious, but I do love the idea of reusing previously milled and used lumber, as well as saving money by doing so.

Plenty of energy/talent/fuel/labor/life went into so much that gets sent to the landfill. It's always nice to re-utilize those things where we can.


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## Buckethead (Apr 14, 2013)

I should have noted: the slats were applied to the top of the rafters with brads, prior to the installation of the roof sheathing. We popped chalk lines on the sheathing to locate the rafters in order to help prevent "shiners" (nails which do not hit the rafter and can be seen from below) which would need to be removed.


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## reedwood (Jan 27, 2011)

"I'm carrying a 4×6 beam the full length of the top of the 10ft walls" .... I must have misunderstood.

Glad the boss is happy, that's what's important! Happy wife, happy life!

30 yrs. for me - she loves her house!

Have fun.

Ps. Nice little playhouse Buckethead!


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## Buckethead (Apr 14, 2013)

I see it. 10 feet was referring to the length of the wall… Not the height. I thought the same thing, reedwood.


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

yeah, I'm not getting that crazy with the underside of the roof. She's 5'-2" so I don't think I'll ever have to worry about her skewering her head on a roofing nail coming through. I'm actually thinking of lowering the wall height Just a bit. I have a standard height door and have to accommodate the header for it,, but I think I can cut the studs at 86 inches.

A 2×4 sill would have top of the stud at 87-1/2. A doubled 2×6 header would use 5-1/2 of that 87-1/2 and make the door opening rough at 82 inches (height). Once I put the top plate and tie plate on top of the studs, I'd be at 90-1/2 to the top of the wall. That's just about 7 and a half feet interior height at the wall. That's plenty. 

Oh and I remembered I have a scaffold in the garage. That will make a good portion of the roof accessible from a nice big platform. And when it comes time to work up the roof farther might make a decent "safety net" if I put the platform at the top and have the scaffold tied off to the wall. Maybe. Bottom half of roof from scaffold almost certainly. The other part, I'll have to see how it works out. Might be more trouble than it's worth as the ground is a bit uneven.


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

reedwood. Yeah I'm making a "beam" using a pair of 2×4s on edge (with 1/2" plywood filler and capped with another 2×4 (flat). It will be 13 feet long (10 building, 1ft lookout at back gable and 2 ft lookout at front gable). So the side walls will be shortened by about 5 inches to accommodate. I know it's overkill, but one of the things it does is let me just cut roof rafters the same for the entire length. 13 feet of roof. The ridge board is a single 2×8 also 13 feet, supported at both gables. Should make it easy for me to hang the rafters by myself.

I might just make the beam with doubled 2×4 and leave off the cap. It's only supporting a 2 ft overhang at most.


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## reedwood (Jan 27, 2011)

Huh?... two ridge beams?.... why? now you got my curiosity really going.

I'm guessing the 2×4 "beam will be installed under the 2×8 ridge beam? If so, it would be for aesthetic purposes? as it's not needed for structural support.

Also, 2×4 beam ends will need to be wrapped to look decent or at least painted. You could make 2 short fake 4×6 cedar "beams" with a nice cut profile and get the same look without building a 13 ft. beam.

You say your going with a 1 ft. overhang on the gable ends but, I believe a 1 ft. overhang on the sides of a 12/12 pitch would lower the bottom of the fascia so low the a normal size door that swings out might hit it. That would definitely suck and the boss will laugh at you. not good. VIF, as they say.

It would take two guys, set up, about 2+ hours to just frame and sheath this roof.

But, one retired, fully capable guy like you or me would take 8+ hours and we would be worn out from moving 1000 lbs. of material up and down a ladder 30 times.

Can't make the boss happy if your all worn out! Get some help!

Ps. check out my blog, The Tool Shed… pretty funny.


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

no, no… the doubled 2×4 beams sit on the long walls and are just to handle the bottoms of the rafters in the overhangs that stick out past the gabled ends. One foot at the rear and 2 feet at the front. Yes, the 1 foot overhangs will make the eaves low. That's ok as the door is on the gable end…. under that 2 foot lookout. AND… the door swings in as per the boss's spec.
ME: "You know that will use space, right?" 
SHE: "Yes, but I need room to walk in anyways and the space behind the door I'll hang shovels and rakes."

So… door on gable end and inswing. *shrug*
I'm not the designer. I just cut wood. 

Her outlook is that she tells me what she wants and I make it happen. And I will. Outside will be clad in board and batten hemlock, left bare to weather and dry for a while and painted before winter. Might be an adventure keeping the carpenter bees out of it until it gets painted. But that'll be her deal.


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## reedwood (Jan 27, 2011)

Ok…..I get it but, that's not how it's normally framed. There is a much easier way but I'm not going to try and guess what you have planned. I'm sure you must know a guy who can show you or help you for a day. Look it up online too.

It's so easy, as long as you've done it once - the definition of a pro, half the time.

The in swing door is actually better, especially if your planning on buying a pre-hung unit. Better seal and protected hinges. Check out the 1/2 window door like I used for natural light.


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

yeah I bought a half light with the grid so it looks like a divided light pane. And yeah I know that the lookouts are most often ladder framed, sometimes like the 1 ft one would just be ladder pieces nailed or lagged in place to extend the roof. The 2 ft one in front would use barge rafters. But for me… working all by myself… the cantilevered beam allows me to handle pieces I can handle alone, and it's a legitimate method. Just different. And only on a garden shed would it be the entire top of a wall. See… I was taught that for a cantilever, you worked 3 to 1. For every foot of cantilever you had to carry back 3 feet. So to go 2 feet I'd be 6 feet into the wall. The back 1 foot would have a beam 3 feet into the wall. Well now you've used 9 feet of a 10 foot wall. Might as well just set a full length beam! heheheh.

Always more than one way I think.


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## reedwood (Jan 27, 2011)

Charlie, my new friend,

Your formula is correct but the application is "unusual" and way over built and causes other problems like exposed framing that looks odd or needs wrapping.

Your ridge beam carries half the weight. The plywood and cut down fly rafter carries/ transfers the center weight and a angled on top 2×6 sub fascia cantilevers and carries the remaining weight. No huge triple 2×4 w/ plywood gusset beams necessary. Trust me on this one.

Your making all kinds of extra trim work for yourself to make it look right…. because…. you want to frame the rafters yourself? Who is going to help you set the 2×8 ridge beam and these massive 13 ft. long 100 lb. beams?

maybe some more research, some decent help and a second opinion is in order if your not sure. A good carpenter just wouldn't build it like this. trust me.

But like you said, more than one way to do things. The wrong way and my way! HA! Sorry if I seem bossy. I've been doing this for a living for 36 years, I can't help it. Just looking out for you.


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## roofner (Feb 24, 2012)

Truss company probably laugh at you not standard size they don't make truss less than 20 foot.. Unless your talking build a deck and buying the sidewall roof combo kits barns.


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

reedwood, check your private massages please. 

For those following…. I think I'm going to go with reedwood's suggestion for the gable overhangs if I'm understanding his description, and if SWMBO agrees, I'm dropping the pitch to a 6:12 because my helper for getting the sheathing up will be very shaky on a 12:12

*edit* and…. she just got up and apparently has her heart set on 12:12 for that "story book cottage" look….. sigh….


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## Buckethead (Apr 14, 2013)

I feel you on the SWMBO comment. But if this is her space, then surely she has a say in the look. My wife usually puts aesthetics before function and practicality. As such, she does make my surroundings more beautiful.

It's good to hear you are following Reed's advice. I whole heartedly agree. There are several options for the eaves. Barge rafters, outriggers, and a simple fly rafter. I would use one of the former if your overhang is greater than 12".


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

She has eased off a little. I showed her a garden shed in a magazine almost exactly the size of hers with an 8:12 pitch and she's ok with that.


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