# What Hand Saws do I need? And Proper Storage Options?



## laxbograt (Oct 4, 2011)

Hi All,

Lately I seem to have a greater desire to get back to using primarily hand tools, planes, spokeshaves, chisels, etc… I am not really sure why I just got my 5hp Delta Unisaw up and running, sorry for the blatant tool gloat. I suspect it has something to due with the fact that I always think that there is a higher level of craftsmanship and pride from using hand tools, also I tend to not be sleeping a lot lately and it would be able to do something without waking up everyone in the neighborhood.

So I have realized I have no quality hand saws. Currently I have a decent flexible Japanese style flush cut saw, a Gentleman's saw which is kind of dull, and a cheap fat max coping saw.

So have at it what do i need.

I have been looking at the LN Progressive tooth pattern dovetail saw, it is soooo nice looking, but other than that I am open for suggestions.

*
Carlos
Rookie Woodworker*


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## Dcase (Jul 7, 2010)

It depends on what kind of cuts you want to do with hand saws. I would probably start with a good tenon saw and a dovetail saw… From there you can get just about any larger handsaw to fit your wants/needs…


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## laxbograt (Oct 4, 2011)

My apologies cr1,

I am looking for a set of saws for basic small projects, boxes, getting mid size lumber to usable size etc… Also I would like to be able to cut joints, dovetails, tenons etc.. I am not building an arch.

Carlos


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## michelletwo (Feb 22, 2010)

If you like the japanese pull type, check out the Japan Woodworker store. lots of choices there. i love them. I also love the LN saws. don't think you can go wrong with either type


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Make a bow saw with 10-12 tpi in a rip pattern. A 22" butcher
saw is easily refiled to this profile. These saws are amazing
for cutting dovetails and tenon cheeks.

A decent dozuki is good to have for cutting tenon shoulders
and small dovetail type rip cuts, but is a tiresome tool to use
for larger rip cuts. I recommend the Gyocucho saws with
the rattan handles.


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## laxbograt (Oct 4, 2011)

Thanks everyone. Loren your post are always so detailed.


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## funchuck (Jan 11, 2010)

This is what I did:

Veritas Dovetail saw
Veritas Carcass saw (xcut)
LN Tenon saw (rip)
Pax Panel Saw (rip)
Japanese Ryoba from borg - I only use the xcut side, the rip side sucks. I use this saw in place of a xcut panel saw (which I don't have yet), but I plan to replace with a xcut panel saw someday.

This setup lets me do anything so far.


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## andrewr79 (Dec 17, 2011)

I've hunted the local markets and junk shops to assemble a working set. For the work you mention I'd be starting with just two saws - a 14 inch tenon (12tpi crosscut) for the delicate work (cutting joints, dovetails, mitres) and a crosscut panel saw, try for somewhere between 8-11tpi. The panel saw size is a little more manageable than the full size saws so is a good place to start. It will handle most of your larger work. Add a ripsaw later if you want to resaw stock.

I've been lucky enough to find a lot of old Disston's locally, some going for as little as $0.50AU, and have restored them (see here if interested in how). It's been worth the effort, I've got high quality saws at a fraction of the cost of a decent new one and leant a heap about them in the process, including sharpening which is a vital skill to have. Might be worth doing the same and seeing what treasures the local markets have on offer.


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## 12strings (Nov 15, 2011)

I would say to get started, get a Dovetail saw (rip), Carcass saw (rip or Crosscut, depending what you want to do with it…if lots of tenons, get rip), and some sort of panel or spineless hand saw for breaking down large boards.

See a recent Schwartz recomendation here: http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/another-solid-10-and-change-saw

I actually have a $15 Stanley Sharptooth fine-finish saw that does have a decent wood handle, and it has been my primary saw for crosscuts, rips, and even breaking down sheet goods for over 4 years now. The hardenened teeth really last a while, and if they get dull or damaged, the saw is so cheap you can get another one. (but you can't sharpen it).


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

I'm not gonna be so specific to brand here, but later I'll tell you some of the brands I own and how I feel about them.

A coping saw
A riping saw
A mitre saw
Dovetail saw or Japanese equivalent (Dozuki)
a couple pull /cut off saws

I have no specialty woodworking stores in my area, the last one we had closed up about 3 years ago, so I either have to hunt online or go to the box stores, which is why I don't own the Dozuki I want yet…

I can say that marples has a couple of really nice pull saws the blades are supposed to be replaceable but I've yet to see a replacement blade for them, and I've had 3 or so fo the 1" one sided pull saw (sheet rock is very rough on the teeth of those blades apperently)

I've had craftsman and buck brothers mitre saws and dovetail saws, but either my technique or the tools have kept me from getting the desired results.

Buck brothers Jack saws are nice, look cool, but often are limite in applicatin.

Coping saw, they're tricky to master but once you do, they can make some cuts you thought too dificult easy.
For Coping saws it's almost always been a buck brothers coping saw, they have a lifetime warranty after all. Just the blades need to be replaced from time to time, no big deal.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

I really like the Rob Cosman set of saws they are not cheep but they are the best out there. I love the way he has the teeth arranged . they are truly great saws and then of coarse you will need a regular crosscut saw a tenon saw and others you could easily spend as much on this saw collection as you did on the uni saw. Be sure to go to robs new tool site where he coaches you how to use hand tools it like boot camp for hand tools. you will be shocked at the prices that these saws cost but if you get the chance to see Rob You can decide what to buy when your at a show where he is or you can buy from his online store at robcosman.com . there is a link there to the hand tool school there is a free membership option. I can tell you what you learn will make you a better woodworker if you use hand tools or power tools the lessons are essential learning. I hope this helps you out


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## Beninvt (Jan 14, 2011)

This little bit on saws on Tommy's site might help you make a decision:

http://www.thomasjmacdonald.com/rough-cut-woodworking/media/video.php?vid=47573e569

Hope it helps!!!


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I think it all starts with whether you like Western saws or pull saws. I've got a collection of both and the Japanes pullsaw is clearly for me. I can't even use a Western saw anymore with any effectiveness. If you like Western saws, I'd think you need 1) a rip, 2) a crosscut, 3) a tenon, and 4) a dovetail. Of course, that's just general advice and may not be appropriate for your projects. There are guys here that are absolute masters at restoring and using saws. There are even saw sharpening videos. I think Paul Sellers is putting on a clinic in the near future. That might be worth checking out. Good luck!


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## paratrooper34 (Apr 27, 2010)

I made the complete transition from power to hand saws in my shop. I splurged and went all out and purchased a complete set of LNs. While there are claims to who is the best and such, LNs reputation is backed up with the quality of their tools. Their saws are no exception. I purchased rip and crosscut panel and carcass saws, a tenon saw, and a dovetail saw. I have sawn a whole bunch of stuff with this set, meets just about every need I have. Build a saw bench or two, they will be come in handy. Also, I have a nice old Millers Falls miter box to handle accuracy and repeatability tasks. Sold my table saw about three weeks ago and don't miss it at all.

Yes, there are cheaper ways to get all of the saws you would want in your arsenal, in fact I have restored a couple of saws (now have to sharpen them) that I got for a song. So I know with some work, you can get cheap. But my saw set cost way less than a nice table saw. And if properly cared for, will last my lifetime and become hand-me-downs to the family. Spend money and get nice tools.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

i wonder why the originator of this thread has not commented on any of these fine answers. this bugs me when you ask a question i think you should thank the woodworkers that took the time to reply to your question.


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## laxbograt (Oct 4, 2011)

Sorry to offend you thedude50, I work for UPS and haven't had a lot of extra time to post lately. I appreciate everyone's input. I enjoy hearing everyone's various opinions.

Carlos


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## paratrooper34 (Apr 27, 2010)

Yep, sometimes life gets in the way. I imagine UPS is a little busy this time of year. Good luck, Carlos


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## laxbograt (Oct 4, 2011)

Ok so quick update,

I think I have narrowed my saw choices down, looks like I am going to get a new panel saw, a dovetail saw and a mid to large size tenon saw.

I already ordered my Disston panel saw, thanks Doc.

My last questions I have been going over in my head have been regarding brands, I think I have narrowed it down to four different companies: Disston, LN, Veritas, and Bad Axe Tools.

I have been strongly looking at the Bad Axe 16inch Tenon Saw with the hybrid blade. Does anyone have any experience with the hybrid cut?

The other saw I have been looking at is the LN Progressive tooth pattern dovetail saw, haven't heard anything bad about it.

Anyone have any strong opinions one way or the other?

Carlos


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## andrewr79 (Dec 17, 2011)

Can't say I've had the pleasure of using anything but Disston - but a pleasure it is. My tenon saw cost me $3 and about 2 hours restore work including sharpening. It's rarely out of my hands now. I often wonder why everyone seems to go for the new, fancy toolmakers (good as I'm sure they are) when the tools that have served for decades are sitting around so cheaply waiting to be given a second or third life.


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## Arch_E (Jun 30, 2011)

I've bought and rehabbed a bunch of old Disston, Simonds, and Atkins backsaws and panel saws. I've even learned how to sharpen most these (still learning on more than 11ppi). Eventually, you'll need to sharpen whatever hand saw you buy; so, do be put off by the "NEED" to sharpen; it's going to happen.

Having said that, the newer saws-Gramercy, Adria, Bad Axe, Wenzlof, Eccentric, Two Lawyers, Verias, and LN (etc) are great right out of the box!!!! They work extremely well! I've got some Adria's and want some of the others, as well. However, my old vintage saws, once tuned, do functionally the same thing that the newer ones do-cut wood. So for me, it's a balance between buying what you want with what you can afford (at the moment).


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## laxbograt (Oct 4, 2011)

I think my main reason for looking at some of the more expensive saws that are ready out the box vs cheaper saws that need rehabbing is for two reasons.

1) Currently I do not posess certain skills nessecary to properly rehab a vintage saw I understand the principles as to what u need to do but have never had the time to properly learn via trial and error.

2) Time, currently I have two jobs, two kids and a wife, subsequently I have about 30 seconds of freetime every third day. That kind of is the underlying reason for number one as well not having enough time to develop the nessecary skills. So it all boils down to the fact that I would rather spend my little free time making saw dust rather then ruining a vintage saw.

Anyway spent my freetime quota for the week.

*Carlos 
Rookie Woodworker*


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I like western style saws but don't have a problem with those who don't. My set includes the following saws:

crosscut saw
ripsaw
back saw
dovetail saw
fine cut dovetail saw
keyhole saw
bow saw with various types of blades
japanese saw
coping saw
fret saw
hack saw
small frameless hack saw
pruning saw so your not tempted to use your good saws for this
saw for firewood for the same reason

you also really need saw sets, saw files, saw vise, and saw jointer if you you want to learn how to sharpen them and obviously everyone should know how to sharpen their own tools.

helluvawreck

https://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## andrewr79 (Dec 17, 2011)

Fair point Carlos!

I will admit it's taken me nearly a year to set up my workshop using every spare moment, and it's only now that it's starting to get to the point where all the tools are restored and ready to use. Soon I hope to stop playing with tools and actually build some decent work. Good luck with your new saws


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## laxbograt (Oct 4, 2011)

Well I finally pulled the trigger on my first nice saw purchase I kept looking at the same saw over and over so I finally just got it over with here is the specs:

Bad Axe Tool Works 16" Tenon Saw, American Black Walnut Handle, Pearl Nickel-Plated Steel Back, 12 ppi Hybrid-Cut filling, and Brass Slotted Fasteners.

Now I just have to wait 10-12 Weeks for it to arrive. I can't wait.

Carlos


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## JoeMcGlynn (Dec 16, 2011)

Ha, looks like I got in line at Bad Axe right in front of you  16" tenon with black cherry, nickel back and niter blued fasteners, filed rip. I have a great dovetail saw and carcase saw (x-cut), and just restored a Disston D8 rip that is enroute to Bad Axe for sharpening. I intend to learn to sharpen on the next saw I restore, but I wanted this one done professionally as a reference point.

I can feel myself sliding down the slippery slope though. I have a D8 8ppi rip, but don't I want a 4.5 or 5.5 ppi rip too for thicker stock? And I'm going to have to cross-cut the ends of my new bench after I glue them up, so I'll probably want a Disston D8 crosscut with the thumbhole so I can use a two-handed grip. I think I'm in big trouble.


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## andrewr79 (Dec 17, 2011)

It's a slippery slope Joe. If you take a look at it though, you need at most two rip and two crosscut. I'm actually only using a 6TPI rip and a 8TPI crosscut and they do the job well. You'll want to plane most edges after a cut anyway so it doesn't make that big a difference.


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## laxbograt (Oct 4, 2011)

Well I think I may have slid down the slippery slope.

Last week I ordered my bad ax tenon saw, I then ordered my ln progressive cut dovetail saw which was also unfortanly on back order, and then I won a eBay lot for 5 disston saws panel saws and backsaws, I got these so I could start practicing sharpening.

So as of now my saw collection of one Japanese flush cut saw and one gent saw has exploded into nearly a dozen.

Well I guess it could be worse.

Carlos


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

Carlos, I have been a member of Rob Cosmans site for a month now and I have learned a ton about hand work his site isn't free but the lessons are really good. I really want one of robs saws but the 300 dollar price tag hurts me a bit i just got 2 ln dovetail saws for 120 each and will set each one up to cut differently like Rob Does with his saws but a pars of Robs saws would be 600 dollars a little hard for me since i have a shop full of and I love Power tools. I cant bring my self to spend as much on a hand tool as I do a power tool to me My table saw is King and always will be. whither its this one or i get a new cabinet saw I will always consider the table saw the hub of the workshop.wile I too have dropped a pretty penny on hand saws, I will never be a hand tool only guy but it sure is fun to make things all by hand ,but I have to make Money in my shop and turning out a piece a week wont cut it.


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## Nighthawk (Dec 13, 2011)

Main saws I have (but not limited to) are; 

Rip saw
Cross cut saw
General purpose jet cut saw
Tenon saw
Dovetail saw
Mitre saw
Copping saw
Hack saw
Framless hack saw


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## laxbograt (Oct 4, 2011)

Ok, so quick update, still no word on my bad axe saw, but my LN Progressive cut dovetail, came in this week, and all I can say is, Oh My God!!

It came wrapped so nice it was like Christmas all over again. Did a couple test cuts on a piece of oak and it was incredible. The handle fits your hand perfectly, and the progressive filing works great starting off is easy and as you push lower on the saw it really picks up speed. The brass backing gives it enough weight that it just glides through wood with almost no effort.

Can't say enough good things about it.

I do have a followup question now that I am getting these nice saws. How does everyone store there saws? Obviously I want it to stay clean, protected and out of the way, for now I just re-oiled the blade wrapped it back up and left it in the box but this doesn't seem like a good long term solution.

*Carlos 
Rookie Woodworker*


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

you know i too have been on a buying spree of saws i got two of the ln dover tail saws just like yours i will set them up a little different as rob cosman recomends with his saws i really want robs saw but it is 300 and i got each ln for a c note each. I love robs stuff but i cant swing the price its a bit to much when my table saw was under a grand and it is the main tool in my workshop. I am a hybred woodworker and that will never change i like my power tools too much in

IN A BOOK I WAS READING THERE WAS THIS THING TO HOLD YOUR SAWS IN I know it was shop made so i could make it hold a ton of saws all various sizes and shapesI gotr a great Simmonds saw not sureof the spelling it is over a hundred years old and looks like new I love it it is very sharp and works very well but i will have to make a home for the dozen saws i now own and the 2 on my wish list are a nice little rip saw and a rob cosman dove tail saw which i am told you need 2 of I wilook for the saw holder in my books and will post a pic when i find it and how to make it it uses a cam to hold the blade ll


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