# Need opinions on Dovetail jigs



## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

Ok so I have never made a dovetail joint but will need to for making some drawers.
Here is what I am considering:

PC 4212 - Seems like good bang for the buck, but setup seems clumsy, especially lining the wood up to the scribed lines on the fixture, this was mentioned in a video. Also using a free hand router and flying wood chips are problematic.

Keller 1500 - Kind expensive for a piece of phenolic but I guess you are also paying for the bearing guided bits. Seems more foolproof than the 4212 but only does through dovetails. You have to make your own clamping system but it can be used on a router table which would be my preference.

Incra LS17 with PRO-II Joinery fence. More money than I wanted spend but seems like it might be the easiest and best to use on a router table and more versatile. Might be worth the extra $120 over the PC 4212.


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## wbrisett (Dec 21, 2011)

Joel: be aware that you'll also need special bits for the Incra system. Those are extra. There are a couple of options out there including Eagle America and Whiteside.

http://www.eagleamerica.com/product/v100-3442/ea_-_router_bit_sets
http://www.woodpeck.com/whitesidejoin6pcset.html


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## WarrenC (Dec 30, 2014)

I have the Leigh Jig. Very expensive, but it does a good job. Only problem is that it does a terrible job on plywood(Baltic Birch) drawers, chipping everywhere


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

The PC jig for sure. It excels at making half blind dovetails for drawers. I us it all the time, and made some 11-1/4" tall drawers recently. They assembled easily with a light tap. It is a solid jig, and easy to set up as well. 
It has two limitations, neither of which bother me.
1. 12" wide board is max. No big deal, most drawers are less than a foot wide.
2. Drawer heights need to be 3-1/4", 4-1/4", 5-1/4" etc. to show symmetrical dovetails. I plan my designs accordingly and it works well. If you use false drawer fronts as many do, this is easy to get around. For instance if your false front is 7" high, you could make your drawer box 6-1/4" high.


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

Is the need to make drawers a one-time thing or ongoing? Is it for enjoyment or utilitarian purposes? Perhaps you've already had this discussion with yourself but dovetail jigs aren't always the route to go when doing drawer boxes. There are other options which are sometimes more appropriate.

If it's utilitarian and only a small run of drawers are needed, it's usually more economical to just buy dovetailed drawer boxes. They average around $50 per drawer for pre-finished, hardwood boxes.

If it's for fun and only a small number of drawers are needed, hand-cut is a lot easier than people think.

People who are skilled at tuning bandsaws and good at jig-making can cut perfect dovetails on the bandsaw.


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## kdc68 (Mar 2, 2012)

Unless they HAVE to be dovetailed drawers, there are alternatives such as a locking rabbet joint. Easy to do with a table saw. Here's a PDF from Woodsmith that outlines it well if you are unfamiliar with this simple joint

http://www.woodsmithshop.com/download/509/locking-rabbet-joints.pdf


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

Thanks for all the great feedback.
I am all for doing things with hand tools when it makes sense to me.
I have planes and chisels and enjoy using them, I don't yet have any good saws but that will be coming.
This is something I don't want to do by hand because of the learning curve and time involved in actually doing it.
If I had the time I would give it a try.
I will be doing quite a few drawers for some bedroom dressers and possibly kitchen cabinets and shop drawers.
I have considered other joints like the lock miter and they are certainly strong enough and easy enough but I am somehow stuck on the traditional look of the dovetail joints.
Now that I know more about the Incra system, I think I am leaning towards the PC 4212.
It does what I need and at a significantly lower cost, I just have to realize the setup is going to take some time to get right.


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## Everett1 (Jun 18, 2011)

I have a Leigh from the 80's. It's so nice, but I got it for the right price


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

> I am all for doing things with hand tools when it makes sense to me.
> I have planes and chisels and enjoy using them, I don t yet have any good saws but that will be coming.
> This is something I don t want to do by hand because of the learning curve and time involved in actually doing it.
> If I had the time I would give it a try.


With these comments in mind, have you thought about doing them by hand with a magnetic guide to help? A guide will dramatically reduce the learning curve of hand cut dovetails as you start out and the guides are relatively inexpensive. There are several of us on here that use these types of guides. Veritas makes one and I purchased one from David Barron and absolutely love it. I did a review of the guide here and that review post also includes a video showing how to use the guide and gives a good idea of how fast you can make a set of dovetails by hand.



> I think I am leaning towards the PC 4212.
> It does what I need and at a significantly lower cost, I just have to realize the setup is going to take some time to get right.


Yes, it does. Personally, I think the learning curve on router jigs is just as long or longer than learning to cut by hand. If you prefer to use the router, that is fine, I just wanted to present another possibility.


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

> I am all for doing things with hand tools when it makes sense to me.
> I have planes and chisels and enjoy using them, I don t yet have any good saws but that will be coming.
> This is something I don t want to do by hand because of the learning curve and time involved in actually doing it.
> If I had the time I would give it a try.
> ...


I have heard of those magnetic guides. Being that I would like avoid the noise and chips of a router I am going to look into hand cutting with one of these guides. Since I plan to get into guitar making those skills and tools will probably be needed anyway.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

One thing I like to do with my PC jig is use a larger 14 degree dovetail bit for a different look. I stain the drawer fronts before assembly for more contrast.
My first time using the jig took 20-30 minutes to get tight fitting joints. It takes even less time now. 
Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

I like the PC 4212. I used to use a Craftsman dovetail jig. All of them (in my experience) have a learning curve, but once you've mastered your jig, you can crank out dovetails very rapidly. I did 23 drawers using dovetails for my kitchen remodel. Would have been pretty tedious doing them by hand. The nice thing about them is that when you get your setup right, you can assemble the drawers without glue, and they hold themselves together. Of course, you do use glue for a permanent job. But it is obvious that they are very strong.

I don't find the router chips to be a problem-just an annoyance when you have to clean up. Some routers have provision for a vacuum hookup, but my PC 690 doesn't have that, and I don't find it to be a problem.


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## ChefHDAN (Aug 7, 2010)

Take a peek at the woodtek jig I bought it when they had a deal for all of the templates included. It has a kinda crappy manual to understand the alignment set up, but once you do it it makes sense. I don't use it much, because for most stuff the drawer lock joint works fine, but I don't cry about the $$$ for it to sit in the shop either.


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## johnstoneb (Jun 14, 2012)

I have the PC. It does an excellent job. Remember you have setup to do on all dovetail jigs. You do need to read the manual carefully when setting up. I believe (my manual is in shop) if you plan your heights in 1/4" increments (ie 1 1/4, 1 1/2, 1 3/4 et.) you will get symmetrical dovetails. That is covered in the setup in the manual if you read it close enough. The mini template can go down to 1/8 increments. PC also has a manual for advanced dovetails that shows you how to setup for inlayed, end to end, skipped pin and others. I think all the jigs require you to use a router freehand and dust collection is a problem on all of them. Once you learn how to setup the PC setup is fairly quick and once setup you can crank out dovetails quickly. One thing it is quicker if you have two routers one setup for tails and on setup for pins you have to change bits when changing fromtails to pins. It takes almost as long to change bits as it does to convert the jig from tails to pins.

One thing I would recommend is learn to cut dovtails by layout and cut dovetails by hand before going the power route. It make setup on the power route easier because you have an understanding of why you're doint things.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

The PC 4212 does not require you to use 2 bits. All the cuts are made with the dovetail bit. Their bit is 1/2" shank. Though I haven't checked to see compatibility, I believe Grizzly's 1/2" shank bits will work. Don't know about 1/4" shank bits-whether they would work with the 4212. Of course, you also use a bushing to fit the template.

Both boards for a corner are done at once, with one setup. You do have to remember to shift from side to side on the template for opposite corners.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

I gave up entirely on power dovetails. Just sold my jig matter of fact.
With practice, I submit you can have 2 drawers built by the time you get done tweaking the setup.

Then there's the noise, the dust, the ear protection, the eye protection, the cleanup…..

When you look at a nice dovetail, what do you want to think,

"I really had that machine dialed in perfect" or 
"That took some skills!!"


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## goochs (Jan 13, 2015)

I had the porter cable and sent it back because I wanted to do more. I now have the LS17 with the super fence. Pricey but can't be beat. You can get al the bits needed for the templates I a package for $45 from mcls or $95 for whiteside. Small price to pay for an excellent system. Beside dovetails and box joints, doubles and symentrical spacing the ls will also give you the ability to use as a joiner. That is something I use more and more especially before making dovetail joints. A repeatable fence in 32nds of an inch and always square to the table is well worth the investment. I would look closer at ALL the LS17 does. Much more than perfect dovetails and much faster than jigs. When I got my LS I made perfect dovetails at first try. Depth of cut is determined with one test cut and center for the template can be either router determined or with one of the templates provided. This whole setup process takes about 10minutes tops! Go to their website and watch the video.. it is that fast.


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## gwilki (May 14, 2014)

I have an early version of the Keller. Mine is not plastic, it is metal. It does an excellent job; is very quick and easy to set up; and works on my router table. I'd buy it again.


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## AlBTha (Feb 22, 2012)

This is one I built. Easy to adjust. Fast and accurate.





Al


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## daddywoofdawg (Feb 1, 2014)

you can always make finger/box joints.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dovetail-Jig-Plan-/291401552781?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d8e2d38d


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Have you check the technique using a 7 degree bevelled blade in the TS?

Saw Mike Pekovitch to this in a FWW video. 
Pretty slick.

BTW, when cutting by hand, if you cut tails first, you can stack up the sides and cut several at once.

A good sharpening place can do it for you. I had to settle for 10 degrees.


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## Bill7255 (Feb 23, 2012)

My first dovetails was using a Invra LS 25. I made two 12" drawers with it. However it is difficult to hold that large of a drawer using the Incra. The Incra is geared to smaller boxes ect. I bought a used Leigh jig and it is easy to make larger items. I also have the dust/chip collection attachment and if you go that route I highly recommend it.


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## Woodbum (Jan 3, 2010)

Leigh D4 if you want a dedicated jig that will do all kings of dovetails, box joints and specialty joints such as bears ears and clover with accessory templates. Pricy and finicky to learn to use but top quality. That being said, I have cut many, many half blind dovetail joints for drawers etc on my Incra Twin Linear router table fence. it works great and is very versatile. I have never bought any "special" bits, but use the specified bit for the specific joints that I have purchased almost anywhere. A word of caution: the Incra is so precise, make sure that your bits are accurately sized, ie, a 1/4" bit is really 1/4" and not over or under sized. Therefore, buy good quality bits. Plus the Incra fence system can be used for endless other router table functions. Incra = #1 in high quality, accuracy, versatility, functionality, repeatability and USA made. The documentation that comes with their products is first rate too.


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

Through experience set-up is the key. I have used the porter cable version professionally in a production atmosphere and it is a great jig. Spend the time to set it up right and buy 2 routers you will never again touch except to change out the old bits for new ones.

If you go to sears buy an oven but not the craftsman jig.


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## BroncoBrian (Jan 14, 2013)

> One thing I like to do with my PC jig is use a larger 14 degree dovetail bit for a different look. I stain the drawer fronts before assembly for more contrast.
> My first time using the jig took 20-30 minutes to get tight fitting joints. It takes even less time now.
> Good luck with whatever you decide.
> 
> - pintodeluxe


Beautiful dovetail work. You have inspired me.


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

I have an older Porter Cable Omnijig 24 that I bought off of Craig's List. I fiddled around with it for awhile, but haven't yet made a good joint.

The critical thing is getting the clamps not to slip. Facing the clamp bar with PCA sandpaper is recommended, but I haven't tried that yet.

And yes, you can figure out how to make it work with different bits. I've tried 7 and 14 degrees, I think.

I went for the 24 'cause I thought I might dovetail some chests and other larger items.

-Paul


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