# What does everybody have so much against pine?



## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

Okay, so maybe pine is a softwood, I understand. Maybe its the cheapest/most common wood out there. Maybe its the wood for beginners. But why does everybody talk it down like its nothing? To be honest, I absolutely LOVE pine. To double that, I love knotty pine more than select. Out of the couple dozen woods that I have ever worked with, pine is by far in my top 3. I love the fact that it is so cheap. I absolutely love the character of it especially when it comes to making rustic/country furniture. It smells up your workshop nicely when working with it. Infact, when I work with it I have strangers come up to tell me I smell nice (during a coffee run or something in that nature).

Anyways, I can go on about how much I love pine and many reasons why I do. But I just want to know who likes/dislikes it and why?


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## Maverick44spec (Aug 7, 2011)

I like pine for rustic projects or projects that will not recieve a lot of wear and tear (like small boxes), but I don't think I would use it for any kind of fine woodworking.

1) It's too soft and dings and scratches too easily. 
2) Since it is so common, most people think it is cheap so it looses appeal in fine furniture.
3) It does not take stain well and even soaks up polyurethane like a sponge (I usually use sanding sealer just so I can get a finish on it without wasting a lot of it).
4) I have trouble getting it perfectly smooth/flat because the grain is a lot harder than the rest of it.

I think it is a pretty wood but just doesn't make great wood for fine furniture.


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## bent (May 9, 2008)

stains unevenly
dents easily
pitch pockets
low strength

it has it's place, but i'm not a fan.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I think half the problem is that few people really know enough about working with pine. First, there are several kinds of pine, and choosing the right one for the project can mean the difference between a fine looking piece and a rustic look. I really like Douglas Fir, which can have an amazing, perfectly straight grain that is unlike any other wood. And it is very durable, as is southern yellow pine. Of course, it is never as durable as a hardwood.

The most important thing about making nice stuff with pine is learning how to finish it properly. You will never have a nice pine peace if you use a dark stain. It'll look terrible. A very light stain can be quite nice, especially if you use a sealer. But for a really stunning pine piece use an acid bath followed by a colored wax. I made some morris chairs out of 2X4's with this finish and they are nice enough for anybody's living room.


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## wb8nbs (Jan 11, 2011)

Can you share some photos of the acid and wax pieces?


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

I don't find the majority of it visually pleasing. Color or grain uually doesnt do it for me. There are nice looking pine boards, they tend to be the exception and not the rule


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Never say never , Pine cane be be stained to look great light or dark ,it's just knowing how to do it and what material to use when finishing it. I think pine is a good inexpensive wood,but it can have many of the problems Bent listed. I think people view pine as a cheap wood so if your selling an item made from it many folks will view it as a low quality product in spite of what kind of workmanship was involved in making that product. For close to the same money you can buy poplar it is a harder would and can be finished to look like many other woods ,if you know how. Furniture manufacturers have know this for centuries.


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

Well yes I understand its a soft wood which can ding easily or stain unevenly but like *stumpy* said, if you have enough experience with it than it shouldn't really be a problem. It may dent easily but what are you doing to it to dent it in the first place?


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Dent it ? let me count the ways … bump it with another board,lay it on top of a tool, using clamps on it, pressing a little to hard with a nail gun,laying tools on top of it, bumping it with a vacuum after you have made an item. There's no law against using pine like any other wood if you know it's properties before you build something you will know what you end up with when you have finished your project. I have made many things out of pine but not major pieces of furniture.


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## Maverick44spec (Aug 7, 2011)

If you made a coffee table out of it, all you would have to do is set a cup down a little hard at an odd angle and it would dent it. The corners/edges would be really easy to dent or chip. If you accidently kicked the legs with your shoes on, it would likely dent it. Little things like these are all it takes to dent it. Give it a few years and it will be full of dents, dings, and scratches.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

I believe that pine furniture has its place. I am filling the keeping room of our 1800 colonial with my pine furniture. I do not expect it to still be in pristine condition in 20 years. It is furniture that you live with.

I recommend The Pine Furniture of Early New England by Russell Hawes Kettell.


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## Maverick44spec (Aug 7, 2011)

Chuck, can we see some pics?


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## GaryC (Dec 31, 2008)

Mark, I think you worry too much about what others think. If you like it, that's all that counts. Some people love to stain wood. I dont stain much. Some people love poly….I don't …. It's just up to you.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

pariswoodworking,

Sure. I just posted a cabinet today. This includes links to some other pieces.


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

Well I understand how to dent it but does it hurt to be a little careful? I honestly think its a great wood. Not for ALL projects like a few of you had mentioned. It does have its place and value. IF PINE HAD FEELINGS I WOULD BE ITS ONLY FRIEND!


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

But for instance, if someone were to ask "what type of wood did you build that out of?" and you answered pine, its as if they don't give you as much credit for it as if you were to answer oak.


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

Dings.
A solid wooden tabletop can be beautiful, but sometimes, you may accidentally drop something on the surface and cause a dent in the wood. It could be something small, such as a cup, an ashtray or child's toy that hits the tabletop in just the wrong way and makes a dent. There are simple ways to remove dents from your hardwood furniture.

Difficulty: Moderate Instructions
Things You'll Need
Artist brush

Water

Cloth

Iron

Pin

Sandpaper

1 
Clean the dented area of the tabletop with a soft cloth.

2 
Apply water to the crushed wooden fibers using an artist brush or your fingertip. Be very careful not to get the surrounding area wet at all.

3 
Place a wet cloth over the dented area after the water has been applied. Hold an iron, set on a low heat, against the area for 15 seconds.

4 
Check the dent, and if it still remains, repeat the steaming process again.

5 
Prick the dented area with a pin if the wood has not responded to the steaming process. Make holes to channel the steam from the iron into the wood fibers.

6 
Raise the crushed fibers with the pin or your fingertip, to a level slightly above the surrounding area.

7 
Allow the fibers that were raised to dry thoroughly. When they are completely dry, sand the area and refinish it as needed.

Read more: How to Remove Dents From Wooden Table Tops | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_2079871_remove-dents-from-wooden-table.html#ixzz1YvNaC9Pt


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

I suppose eh Gary? lol … I just want pine to get a little bit more attention than it does. I'm gonna go cry now :'o


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

In my projects there is 2 "treasure chests" and a wall unit(look at the second picture) all made from Pine.
I also use a lot of Poplar(another wood a lot of people look down on)
Like A1Jim said pine has it's place. If you want to use Pine,go for it…I do….

Frankly I would love to get my hands on some Southern Heart Pine like Norm uses.


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

Thx for the support *gm*!


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

thx *howie*


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## Maverick44spec (Aug 7, 2011)

Mark, pine is not the best thing for everything but it has it's uses. There will always be a place in my shop for pine because it looks nice and I like it.


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## Cornductor (Feb 5, 2011)

I did a project for my daughter using pine from the cheapo bin at HD. It was in the rack due to its enormous amount of luster. I in turn saw the beauty in it and created a box that my daughter loves. When ever I'm in HD or the other big box I scavenge for these type of boards, lots or irregular details gives great details when needed. Here's the link to the Jewelry box


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## Maverick44spec (Aug 7, 2011)

Chuck, that cabinet looks great. The pine really goes well with it's design.

Brandon, the jewelry box looks great too.


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

I also like pine.
Used it alot made some small tables, picture frames so on and stain always came out fine.
Makes nice dresser drawers and the smell is great.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

pariswoodworking,

Thanks.

One of the things that I love about pine is the different character that it can have. The two pie safes that I built were from ship lap boards left over from the residing of our barn. The step-back was built from trees harvested by a local (central MA) hobbyist sawyer. My latest cabinet was built from pine grown in northern NH.

I enjoy the subtle differences when working with the wood and in the final result. I am not saying that hardwoods do not have these subtleties, but that I imagine that many people do not think of pine in this way.

Anyway, now that I have all that pitch cleaned off my machines and tools, I am looking forward to getting back to some hardwoods. I enjoy them all.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

I guess I am lucky to live in New England. I buy rough air-dried pine for $0.50/bf.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

Pinus Strobus ……..aka white pine, love it


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## dkirtley (Mar 11, 2010)

I think it's biggest strike against it for most woodworkers is the stigma of being a "cheap wood" As for working it, it's biggest problem is that your tools need to be absolutely sharp and it is tricky when you are going between the soft and hard parts of the grain.

No, it doesn't have the prettiest grain but it takes paint really well.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

David,

You are right about needing sharp tools. I found cutting and paring the dovetails in drawers to be much easier with the pine that came from northern NH than that from central MA. Comparing the growth rings, the ones from up north were about half the size. I guess the difference in temperature is enough to make that difference in growth rate.

There is a lot to learn.


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## maljr1980 (Sep 4, 2011)

pine is great for building stuff, like a dog house, or a people house even, makes great rafters and studs, really excells in the shop for making sawhorses. if you want rustic/country try a number 2 hickory, beautiful


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## ajosephg (Aug 25, 2008)

Hey, to each his own. If you like it, that settles it.


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## derosa (Aug 21, 2010)

I dislike it due to the feeling that it typically looks cheap and is frequently used in cheaply made projects. That said, I'll be using it to try and get 3 rocking goats done for Christmas. first cause the project calls for lots of 1.5" thick pieces and for boards 15" wide. To do even one would require lots of gluing and cost quite a bit in hardwood not to mention energy spent rounding all the edges. 2×12s from the local hardware store will be cheap, easy to look through for the best, and require a lot less gluing making it the ideal wood for me for once.


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## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

Paulownia is what sucks. I think I can cross cut it with my fingernail. It's like balsa wood with primer on it.

The local contractor yard stopped getting the finger-jointed white pine and only have Paulownia and Arkansas pine in smooth 1x. We tried the P-word stuff and I told all the guys never get it again. I called the yard and told them to put a message in the computer on my account that if they sell it to my account and I personally didn't sign for it, I will not pay for it.

Get some of that and then you'll love select pine, doug fir, etc.


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## Pete_Jud (Feb 15, 2008)

I bought a bunch of it out of Siberia, 60+ growth rings in 7/4 Kd, Its what I built my shop doors out of and they looked great after a few coats of Seafin teak oil finish. I have enough left for some other projects, not sure what the projects will be yet, but love the smell, and the color of these boards, has a little Rose in it.


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## wookie (Dec 15, 2009)

Since we are on the subject of favorite wood species… in everyones opinion, what is the best wood for workability for the novice and what can be stained light or dark? Probably a dumb question but I have been wondering this for sometime. I like pine too because it is cheap. I am also in the process of making a project out of aspen… probably won't do that again. Trying to stain it dark, ugh! Mark, you are the king of pine!


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## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

@wookie, Best ? I would say soft maple for a comb. of workability and stain light or dark.

Select pine at HD is way prettier than at Lowe's. It is a favorite of mine to work and stain. It is so clean and smooth and blemish free. It behaves so much better than the regular pine either has.

Poplar has such weird color variation and works like a semi-hardwood (to me).

Birch can look good stained light, medium and dark.

I'm experimenting with stain and finish combinations right now, so take a look at this birch plywood:










... and here is the back sides of the same pieces without stain or final finish top coats:










The unstained back sides actually have more grain going on than the front (just no knots).


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

The chair in my projects page was done with the acid bath and colored wax over fir 2X4 pine. The acid (just diluted drain cleaner) creates a chemical reaction that really changes the way it takes the color of the wax. I used light brown Briwax. I really like that finish for pine.


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

thx *wookie*  ....I wish anyways.

david: you say experimenting but what is wrong with that? it looks fine from here.


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## tom427cid (Aug 21, 2011)

Good points all,
Pine does have its place,and there are many varieties. ChuckV is correct that the closer the growth rings the better it is(and yes being in northern New England I am spoiled). I have built a lot of pine furniture,probably not the best choice but the distressed surface does achieve a certain character.
As a secondary wood its superiority is only surpassed by Chestnut. And we all know how common that isVBG!!
While I still use a fair amount of pine, lately I seem to opt for Poplar(fewer knots!!!!)
tom


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## EPJartisan (Nov 4, 2009)

All woods seem to have their strengths and their associate places in the wood shop. I use pine all the time, for jigs, for quick sample carving, for my work benches, I adore the way knots all start from the piths so the boards are readable, and create wonderful bit of natural art at knots, knot holes and crotch areas. Most look like insects or shellfish to me… (I have a huge collection, which I only seem to stare at) Pine finishes great with a 2 part resin coat or wipe on Gel varnish, but I don't like to stain pine, the unevenness of the early to late, texture difference between compression and soft open grain… just too many problems. Also it depends on the age of the pine.. older pines are more resinous and sap can seep long after your project is completed. Like Basswood.. I use it for it's ease in carving and cheap price, but won't make an outdoor shower from it.


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## EPJartisan (Nov 4, 2009)

Here is one of my older projects from Fir and Pine.


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## LeeBarker (Aug 6, 2010)

Two comments on pine, noting that I agree that with any species it's where you put it not what it is, that counts. As for the denting, That's part of it. If "fine" furniture, or toys, or cradles, get dented, that's because they're a part of life. If they are perfect after one year or 5 or 10, then they've not been involved in a story. I'll take the story over perfect any day.

On to the comments:

First, we get a product here in Oregon that's tagged "Eastern Soft Pine" and it comes in 20' lengths (!) and it is 15/16 thick. Both of those features are helpful. Knots can be very small to 4 - 5 inches, but the lengths of the boards makes workarounds pretty friendly. It is cheaper than any hardwood. I keep 25 bf or so around the shop just because.

Second, we have an indigenous product, lodgepole pine, which gets a fungus that turns it blue and gray in streaks, and it's otherwise harmless. In my general contracting days I did lots of interiors with this stuff and it can be very warm looking and impressive. We often just sealed it with Olympic Clear Seal Prime.

At this link, scroll down to "doors" and "shelves" to see some examples of it.

This link shows a ceiling, so you get a larger view of it. I don't think this work was intentionally laid out for color variety and that's a bit of a shame.

Kindly,

Lee


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## EPJartisan (Nov 4, 2009)

As for a novice…. I choose Birch. the fibers are soft enough to feel like a joint fits, even if it is a bit off.. so confidence goes up for those dovetail lessons.. the wood absorbs yellow glue really well (a bad thing if you get glue where you want finish) .. and if you get the right boards are stainable from dark walnut to a med Mahogany.. to a bleaching to get a more blond maple like (but will never match Maple in figure, color, or hardness)

Then take them onto Maple for hardness and good edges.. and then Walnut for brittle woods (and deep sharp slivers) and them to Black cherry to learn soft woods that are easy to burn and dedication to a fine finish. Then to Ipe to learn how to fine carve and dull tools.


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

I don't think that it's as much a dislike of pine as it is knowing that other species are often more desirable for a project. We have a bedroom set (store bought) that we got in the late 70's and it's still in great shape. When I remodeled the master bathroom in the mid 90's, I made the vanity from pine and finished it to match the bedroom set.


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## LeeBarker (Aug 6, 2010)

That's just plain lovely, sawkerf. The proportions I find to be particularly attractive. +1 to you!


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## Maverick44spec (Aug 7, 2011)

I really like blue pine (beetle kill pine). I haven't had the pleasure to work with it yet, but I love the color. Hopefully I'll be able to find some around here and makes some tables out of it.


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

Pine is great; weathered pine or sun darkened pine has a rich rustic look to it that I love. It is not the most durable if you are going to make something that will get a lot of abuse, but again, for a warm rustic look, you can't beat it.


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

Thanks, Lee. The proportions sorta just happened. I had to fit the vanity between two walls and I prefer a 36" height (less bending over the sink). Another unique feature is the bottom drawers. Although they look pretty typical, they use much of the toe kick space to provide more storage. I size mine to hold rolls of toilet paper.


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

That floor is beautiful! I Love the character it brings! Like Rob said, the warmth and rustic look it brings is just so comfortable.


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## Gregn (Mar 26, 2010)

Pine like any other wood has its pros and cons to its nature. My woodworking hobby started out with pine and I'm still working with pine. I figured if I could work with pine then I could work with any other wood species. Which so far hasn't been far from the truth given the limited species of wood that I have worked with.

I have a 20 year old Pine Book Shelf that has withstood countless moves and kids and is still as sound as the day it was built. Granted it shows it age with its battle scars of life, yet it still looks good.

I like Pine, but am at the point I want to start working more with other woods for awhile in my hobby.


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## Maverick44spec (Aug 7, 2011)

I love that warm and rustic look. That is why whenever I move out on my own and can afford it, I'm going to build a cabin with most of the furniture and actual cabin made of pine, cedar, hickory, and maybe a little oak and walnut.  Something along the lines of these. (My dream homes)










Yes, this one is more of a luxury home, but I want this basic design.


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

be careful with that paris….when you need that one last piece of wood to finish a project and you have none left, you may take it off your house til theres nothing left


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## Maverick44spec (Aug 7, 2011)

I could see how that would be a problem.  I'll just have to put sticky notes on the walls that say "DO NOT USE THIS WOOD"


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## Grumpy (Nov 9, 2007)

Pinus Radiata. I use it a lot. It makes a good mix with other woods on segmented work.


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## PCM (Jan 23, 2010)

Until recently, I have never really liked pine due to its uneven uptake of stain including blotching, even when using gel stains and pretreatment with products claiming to prevent this. Last year I discovered Charles Neil's blotch control. I now get excellent finishes. If you use pine, you've got to try this product.


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## wookie (Dec 15, 2009)

Thanks EP and David excellent info… gives me hope. I gotta try some of that Clarles Neil stuff but Momma would never let me use that many paper towels! lol


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

As has been said, every wood species has its place. I made some pine drawers recently for a computer hutch I bought cheap at a garage sale. The hutch is made of knotty pine plywood. So why would I use a different wood for the drawers? I did use amber shellac for the finish, because when the doors are closed you can't see them, and I wanted to try the amber out. A little learning curve later (getting the color uniform), I've nice drawers that basically match the rest of the, now named, armoire. Pine is just fine for my socks and such.

I also made some pine totes for my boutique wood from Rockler. They are finished with some Varathane that needed to be got rid of. Except for the inordinately long drying time, I'm really happy with the finish. The Varathane was left over from an oak floor I refinished in about 1988. I'm amazed it was still liquid. Each tote probably has $200 worth of 2 foot long pieces of bubinga, canary wood, walnut, rosewood, etc., in it. That pine's keeping excellent company.


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

So where are these totes atomjack?

Paris: with all the post-its everywhere, you'd have a pretty pink house. Sorry, a 'salmon' coloured house hahaha


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## Maverick44spec (Aug 7, 2011)

^ LOL. But what if I use blue or yellow post-its?  Maybe I can write DO NO TOUCH WOOD on the insides of my eye lids. :b


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

lol …. make a rainbow. be careful putting that on your eye lids… you may wake up with a hate for wood the next day.


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