# Aspiring woodworker with questions about Steve Ramsey's online course and getting started.



## BlackRibbonDesigns (Mar 20, 2018)

Hello, everyone.

I am excited to soon be embarking on what I see as a "new chapter" in my life. My family and I are buying our first house in a few weeks and I am eagerly awaiting my wood shop space in the garage. I am new to woodworking but I have been saving every extra penny, investing in equipment for my new shop. So far I've purchased a contractor's style table saw, a thickness planer and a small cnc router (I run a large, fairly expensive cnc machine at my job as a sign maker), plus a few other, slightly less exciting things.

But my main question is this… Should I buy Steve Ramsey's weekend woodworker's course? I realize that this is entirely subjective and there's no right or wrong answer but what would you suggest? It costs around $150. I have watched quite a few of his videos and I am sure I would get my money's worth. But $150 would buy a lot of books as well. Are there other, similarly structured courses that I should consider before plopping my hard earned cash down? Is there a recommended reading list that I would do better to invest in?

I look forward to hearing your input. And I'm very excited that I found this forum.

-Caleb


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## Ripper70 (Nov 30, 2015)

There's not much in the way of instructional video that you can't find on YouTube, including many offerings from Steve Ramsey himself. Save your money until you've exhausted all the free resources that are available.


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

Caleb - you can not put a price on expanding your education !!!
it does not matter if it is boat handling, fishing techniques, engine repair,
Letterhead Meets for sign making, yada yada yada . . . 
so if you get a chance to enhance your existing skills or learn new ones,
and it is within your budget and time, make the most of it. 
it can very well save you many tears, heartaches and frustrations in the future.
best of luck to you and your family in your new digs !!

and X2 with Ripper: take advantage of all the free resources that are available.
but - be forewarned: just because someone posts something on YouTube does not
necessarily mean it is the right way or the safest way….. many professional craftsmen
post videos that I feel comfortable with - so do a lot of clowns that can get you HURT.
so use your own best judgement when applying that knowledge into your projects .
... and always WORK SAFE …!!

Read, Understand and Follow all directions and safety precations on all
products and equipment you may use. (Norm said that).

.


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## bndawgs (Oct 21, 2016)

I recently came across the King's fine woodkworking channel and like his videos.

He talks about doing a 16 part series for free on different projects. Might be worth waiting for those before paying money for something.


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## omgitsmike (Aug 16, 2017)

OP - I'm in a similar position, just starting out, building out a small shop out of a tiny garage.

I've watched a ton of Steve Ramsey's videos, as well as Dave Picciuto (Make Something), Marc Spagnolo (Wood Whisperer), Colin Knecht (WoodWorkWeb), Jay Bates, Chris Salamone, etc.,. I'm also on the fence as well - I've picked up a lot learning from the guys above and can figure a lot of plans/joinery/etc., but $150 isn't too much to get jump-started if the content is good.

I'm leaning towards signing up today because (a) the 15 bonus plans expires today, and (b) there's a 30-day no-questions-asked 100% refund anyway. I figure I could sign up, check it out, and if it turns out it's underwhelming, I could just get the refund.

Also, Steve's an awesome guy and I've learned a lot from his free videos already, it's a good way to support someone who's done a lot for the community!


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Our very own Charles Neil - known industry-wide for his expertise in woodworking and finishing - did a 26-part series a few years ago on building a pie safe three different ways. You might not have any interest in building a pie safe, but these videos cover every aspect of woodworking, from construction best practices to wood movement to finishing, and everything in between. These are things you will deal with in virtually every project you build, and knowing the right way to do them will save you time, grief, and, particularly in the case of wood movement, failure or your project down the road with cracked tops, broken joints, etc.

Give them a look. You'll be getting about 15 hours of expert instruction for free. Just search on youtube for "charles neil pie safe," and dig in. His other videos are excellent too, but this one happens to be a complete series.

Since you're talking about spending some money, his series on Cases and Bases, Drawers and Doors, and finishing are for sale on his web site and are all excellent. There are countless tips about things like grain-matching face frame and door stiles that will set your work apart from the pack without any extra effort or skill on your part. It's just one of those things you probably wouldn't think of yourself, but makes a big difference in the final result.


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## DustyM (May 16, 2016)

This may be obvious, ignorant, or some combination thereof, but my best suggestion before starting any kind of "series" is to attempt a first small-ish project yourself. My first one was a nightmare. I worked safely, but very inefficiently. I also learned a lot about making errors in layout, planning, gluing, etc. The downside was I went in fully ready to believe my first ever woodworking project would be a rousing success. Going in knowing that the first few projects may be more learning from your mistakes can take the sting out a little.

Plus, this will give you a little more time to investigate what you like doing in the shop, which may direct your toward certain instructional materials.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

I've been watching Steve Ramsey almost since he started. I believe he understands wood movement, joinery, and how to safely use machinery. I admire his focus on weekend project building and his work ethic. He is due most of the credit for making woodworking popular on YouTube and I believe has done more to popularize woodworking as a hobby than almost anyone else in the last 10 years. If you are a fan of his channel and want to make similar projects then I would say go for it. There is nothing wrong with paying for instruction. As for books, I highly recommend the Tage Frid trilogy and a good book on finishing. And I would buy those books regardless.


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## caboxmaker (May 3, 2017)

> OP - I m in a similar position, just starting out, building out a small shop out of a tiny garage.
> 
> I ve watched a ton of Steve Ramsey s videos, as well as Dave Picciuto (Make Something), Marc Spagnolo (Wood Whisperer), Colin Knecht (WoodWorkWeb), Jay Bates, Chris Salamone, etc.,. I m also on the fence as well - I ve picked up a lot learning from the guys above and can figure a lot of plans/joinery/etc., but $150 isn t too much to get jump-started if the content is good.
> 
> ...


I think your answer is in para. 3 above. If you don't like it get your money back.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I think your answer is in para. 3 above. If you don t like it get your money back.
> 
> - caboxmaker


A dishonest person would simply sign up, do a screen capture on all of the videos, and then get a refund.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

I never go on a forum and promote my products. 
Steve is excellent and quite the enterainer.and a friend.
If your a beginner he is a good place to start.
However we have a series called
mastering woodworking.
Its a subscription based series and like youtube. We were the first to do videos. On line. 
Itsbeen running gor 6 years or or more 
And continues. We do a 1/2 hour to 45min show every week.
If it pertains to wood working its there. From corner cabinets ..kitchen cabinets. Highboys..lowboys..tables. reclaimed lumber..
There are over 400 videos of every project you can imagine..all selected for their educational value 
In addition there is my on line finishing class.if it pertains to finishing its there. 
You can also watch every dvd i have ever filmed

Its about 200.00 a year..but we have 3 month and 6 month subscriptions…

If you want to know more email [email protected]
And like everything we sell if you dont like it we will refund your money. No questions asked.

As rich suggested go check out our YouTube's 
Search Charles Neil woodworking 
We also have a forum and you have direct email and phone with me.
Or you can email me [email protected]
When we combined the finishing class..which took me a year to do with the mastering woodworking. The price went up. I will ask Sherri to give and lj the old price.you have to tell her your a lumberjock

Just fyi.


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## JohnDi (Jun 23, 2014)

On the free side, I would suggest some of the earlier wood whisperer ( Marc spagnolo) build videos.
And of course almost every episode of New Yankee Workshop is on YouTube


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## Kelster58 (Dec 2, 2016)

IMHO, I wouldn't buy a thing from Steve Ramsey. Much of his content is free on his YouTube channel. There is a reason for that. There are many other places on YouTube and the world wide web to get information at no cost. I believe you learn best by doing. Find a seasoned wood worker and go to them for lessons. I've been teaching and learning for 40 years. There's always something to learn and something to teach. Woodworking is one of those things others are willing to show you.(for free) You just have to find the person willing to share.

Welcome to Lumberjocks by the way. I find this woodworking community to be the best anywhere. Lots of good advice and people willing to share their experiences. You are well on your way to becoming a great woodworker starting here…...


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## Geeph (Mar 17, 2018)

I'm relatively new to woodworking and signed up for Steve Ramsey's course after watching many hours of his videos. It's a good course. It's not simply a re-hash of free videos and not the typical youtube channel content. It is a well thought out instructional course, guiding you step by step through a series of progressive projects. The quality of the production is good as is the quality of instruction. The plans are top notch. It's easily worth the $150.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

> There s not much in the way of instructional video that you can t find on YouTube, including many offerings from Steve Ramsey himself. Save your money until you ve exhausted all the free resources that are available.
> 
> - Ripper70


+1
I learned a lot of the basics from Steve Ramsey without buying his course. There are thousands of free online courses and vids and series that are available. IMO I'd wait until you have exhausted (and that could take years) all of the free content before purchasing. Every season of every New Yankee, Tommy Mac, Woodsmith etc is available free online with a little digging. Not to mention all of the youtube gang, i.e. Jay Bates etc. Not only that, but youtube can give you a plethora of videos on a very specific topic with a plethora of ways to do it using a variety of tools. Like mortise and tenon. As soon a somebody whips out their Festool domino I move on to someone who has the same tools as i do.


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## BlackRibbonDesigns (Mar 20, 2018)

Wow. Thank you all so much for you input. I will be looking into every suggestion above. I'm still undecided but at least now I have some input to ponder.

Thanks again.

-Caleb


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## becikeja (Sep 12, 2010)

I learned all I could from Norm and the New Yankee workshop. Then relied on self taught trial and error. Now with You Tube videos I learn a lot, but there is always that one thing they assume you know that you don't. The best spend in your education is hands on. Many Woodcraft and Rockler stores have hands on training, also there are weekend classes that you can take. For my money I would invest in scrap wood by trial and error, or a hands on workshop. Would not spend a penny on on-line videos.

And don't forget the obvious. When you get stuck the people on this site are incredible at helping you think through techniques and pointing you in the right direction..

That's my opinion anyway


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

Others have posted some good comments and places to go for advice and instruction. I leave you with this:

Take your time, start with smaller projects first and build your experience level up. Don't expect any amount of instruction to make you a pro with pro results overnight. Post your projects, get feedback, and apply it next time.

My Grandfather would often tell me this when I was working with him.

*"Whatever the mind of man can conceive, and believe, it can achieve".*….....Napoleon Hill


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

One additional piece of advice that isn't specific to Ramsey, is that woodworking is a craft and a system. If you put a dozen talented woodworkers in one room they will have a dozen ways of doing something and all of them work, because each person has a system they use to get to the end product. You can see it in the hardware we use, there are particular vises that work in combination or with certain benches or with certain techniques; but if you go mixing and matching at random then suddenly techniques don't work very well because you've stepped outside that system. That's why I'm a fan of learning from one person or one system when you start, become comfortable with that system or way of doing things before experimenting with others.


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## Jon_H (Jun 21, 2016)

> Find a seasoned wood worker and go to them for lessons.
> 
> - Kelster58


Totally agree! Your learning process will accelerate considerably if you have a good, experienced woodworker not only teaching you, but more importantly, observing you and providing corrective guidance. Books, magazines and YouTubes can tell you how it's *supposed* to be done, but they cannot provide interactive feedback indicating if you are doing it correctly yourself.

There are a lot of newbie questions posted here about alignment issues, pieces not fitting together correctly, etc. The experienced jocks here do a good job of troubleshooting, figuring stuff out, and providing constructive feedback to the OP. However, that process is a whole lot easier and faster with an experienced set of eyes on-site.

I'd also recommend that you choose your education sources based on the type of woodworking you intend to do. If you want to be a pen turner, then taking a class that's focused on designing and building cabinets won't do you much good, no matter who the instructor is or what the medium of delivery is.


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## BlackRibbonDesigns (Mar 20, 2018)

> Find a seasoned wood worker and go to them for lessons.
> 
> - Kelster58
> 
> Totally agree! Your learning process will accelerate considerably if you have a good, experienced woodworker not only teaching you, but more importantly, observing you and providing corrective guidance. Books, magazines and YouTubes can tell you how it s *supposed* to be done, but they cannot provide interactive feedback indicating if you are doing it correctly yourself.


This strikes me as a particularly good idea. How does someone go about finding someone who knows what they're doing? I don't think I have any friends that do woodworking of any kind.


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

> IMHO, I wouldn t buy a thing from Steve Ramsey. Much of his content is free on his YouTube channel. There is a reason for that. There are many other places on YouTube and the world wide web to get information at no cost. I believe you learn best by doing. Find a seasoned wood worker and go to them for lessons. I ve been teaching and learning for 40 years. There s always something to learn and something to teach. Woodworking is one of those things others are willing to show you.(for free) You just have to find the person willing to share.
> 
> Welcome to Lumberjocks by the way. I find this woodworking community to be the best anywhere. Lots of good advice and people willing to share their experiences. You are well on your way to becoming a great woodworker starting here…...
> 
> - Kelster58


+1


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> This strikes me as a particularly good idea. How does someone go about finding someone who knows what they re doing?
> 
> - BlackRibbonDesigns


It's easy to say go find some one who knows but then you actually have to find someone who does, and is willing to teach, and has the disposition and skills to teach, good luck getting that for free.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

One thing I like about Steve Ramsey is that he doesn't have/use a ton of expensive tools that few people have. I wouldn't say Steve builds museum quality furniture but then again, neither do I but it's what I aspire to. One great thing about being a youtube woodworker is that you can search for somebody who uses the tools that you have access to. No need to watch a M&T video done with a Festool domino when you have pocket hole technology. Kinda like finishing with Steve or finishing with Charles Neil.

I seem to go the "project" route. I decide what I want/need to build then go here to lj's and to youtube / Google to find someone who has done it with the tools I have or can afford. Often I need to take a week or 2 to build a jig to get the job done before I even start. You can cut dovetails by hand a la Paul Sellers, by jig a la Stumpy Nubs or by a commercial machine a la Porter Cable. Ramsey will tell you that he is not a "hand tool" woodworker and has no interest in cutting a dovetail by hand or learning how to do it.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

I've learned a lot from Charles Niel, Paul Sellers, and the FineWoodworking library.

Charles is real. His shop is real. I can relate to him more than anyone because he shows you the mistakes and how to fix them - and his shop is almost as big a mess as mine is LOL. Seriously, he explains things in ways that don't make you feel like a dummy.

You will learn all you need to know about marking and hand tool joinery from Paul Sellers.

The FWW library is vast and includes several excellent project videos.

Yes, you will also learn a lot from YouTube, but these three are all well worth the membership fees.


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## MarioF (Feb 6, 2009)

I don´t think you need to spend money, it is true there is a lot of misleading information out there but there is also a lot of excellent resources from truly dedicated people that at most will ask you for a contribution in order to maintain their teaching flowing. Check out " wortheffort" channel in You Tube, he has a starting series full of tips and directions for other woodworking lessons. Besides he is a real teacher, highly recommended.


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## omgitsmike (Aug 16, 2017)

I did end up signing up near the deadline last week (as I posted above), but I also ended up requesting a refund a couple days later. After I browsed through the course material (no, I didn't download/screencap any stuff), I decided (a) the projects weren't projects I was interested in, not my style, and (b) I felt I could learn/figure out most of the stuff myself, and decided I'd rather spend the money on lumber or saw blades.

I think Steve is great, but for where I am now, it just wasn't right.


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## Jon_H (Jun 21, 2016)

> Find a seasoned wood worker and go to them for lessons.
> 
> - Kelster58
> 
> ...


I see you're in St. Louis. I would start here if I were you.

I took a class offered at my local Woodcraft. The instructor was awesome. In addition to teaching at Woodcraft, he offered his students time in his professional shop at $25/hr. That included unlimited advice/instruction/assistance and access to all the toys…I mean *tools*. No, it wasn't free, but he had over 50 years' experience, all the power and hand tools you could ever want, and was an interesting character to boot. It was a helluva deal. He also loved finding great deals on lumber. He had the wherewithal to buy by the trainload and pay with cash, so he got some dandy deals. He always passed the savings on to his students. Unfortunately, he passed away from sinus cancer.

Obviously, not everyone is going to have a guy like that nearby. I don't anymore  However, ask around. See if there's a woodworker's guild reasonably close. That'll get you in touch with like-minded folks, most of whom have more experience then you, who are also interested in sharing their knowledge. Many guilds have workshops available to members as well.

Ask at your local woodworking store if you have one. They probably know all the hardcore, experienced woodworkers in the area and may be able to connect you to someone that's willing to take on an informal apprentice.

Put an ad on Craigslist.


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## Jon_H (Jun 21, 2016)

> This strikes me as a particularly good idea. How does someone go about finding someone who knows what they re doing?
> 
> - BlackRibbonDesigns
> 
> ...


Woodworkers' guilds usually cost around $50 per year +/- and typically include monthly meetings, which often include instruction, access to experienced woodworkers that are eager to share their knowledge, and some even have a structured mentorship program.

Technically, $4.17 per month isn't free, but for a year's worth of interactive, face-to-face access to woodworking experts, it's a pretty sweet deal.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

I seriously doubt you will find any quality instruction for $4 month, or quality anything. Most of us spend more on sandpaper. If your going to take classes, take classes from someone with decades of experience. There are plenty of guys in my area who "teach" woodworking classes but they have little actual experience and you'll spend most of the day standing around while they figure out how to do what they are teaching.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

> Technically, $4.17 per month isn t free, but for a year s worth of interactive, face-to-face access to woodworking experts, it s a pretty sweet deal.
> 
> - Jon Hobbs


As long as you have time for that or can make it fit your schedule.

I would suggest building a few of Steve Ramsey's projects with free plans just to get your feet wet. They are mostly "use around the house" type stools, benches, tables and storage cabinets. I think I've built 7 or 8 of them. What I would strive for is that each one you build gets progressively better in terms of fit, finish and overall quality.


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## Jon_H (Jun 21, 2016)

> Technically, $4.17 per month isn t free, but for a year s worth of interactive, face-to-face access to woodworking experts, it s a pretty sweet deal.
> 
> - Jon Hobbs
> 
> ...


Yeah, you're right. That's a horrible idea. Not sure what I was thinking.


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## Jon_H (Jun 21, 2016)

> If your going to take classes, take classes from someone with decades of experience.
> 
> - Woodknack


And where do you find these guys with decades of experience and mad teaching skilz??


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> And where do you find these guys with decades of experience and mad teaching skilz??
> 
> - Jon Hobbs


Hyperbole aside, that was exactly my point. You're looking for someone with 2 skill sets, I wouldn't expect them to teach for free.

There are exceptions, I have a neighbor who is a master at segmented turning and gives free classes but he doesn't teach woodturning so you need to have that skill first.


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## BlackRibbonDesigns (Mar 20, 2018)

> I see you re in St. Louis. I would start here if I were you.


This looks interesting. Thanks for the tip. I'll definitely look into my local guild.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

I invite noobs into my shop often, you might want to start a new thread asking if there are any woodworkers in your area where you can watch,and observe, then under supervision work on some projects of your own. Your mention of already using a CNC for sign making could be a very attractive lure, because you possess knowledge of a "new" portion of woodworking, or at least one that is growing and expanding. So you could offer a swap of TS, Jointer, Planer, Router for CNC.

Beyond that I suggest to new guys to go to You tube, and search whatever it is you want to do. Again your knowledge will help in weeding out the, well you know, junk. Most make it readily apparent by their delivery, but especially their approach to shop safety. I imagine if you were to post here for suggestions of a good video showing how to….. that you would get great answers.

Not saying Ramsey may not offer good content for the money, but often that type of class is for someone who doesn't want to go looking for better, or more specific information.


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## builtinbkyn (Oct 29, 2015)

One thing I'm not sure was mentioned, but are resources for information are woodworking periodicals. You can subscribe and look forward to reading them each month. They all have projects with detailed explanations of how to build them. Most are with tools and equipment that a weekend warrior would have available. They also have tips and tricks which can be helpful. Aside from a new subscription, try visiting a second hand book store. Many carry old issues at 50 cent a piece and also have books on cabinet making and woodworking.

I've done all of the aforementioned in addition to looking at online videos and of course reading quite a bit here on LJs and other sites. If I were to pay for a course, it would be a hands-on course in the presence of the instructor, where I would get direct/immediate feedback. Taking a week or more at one of the woodworking schools around the country is something I'm considering.


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## BlackRibbonDesigns (Mar 20, 2018)

I can't thank you all enough for your suggestions. It is very much appreciated and I'm amazed by the overwhelming response. What an awesome forum! Tomorrow is closing day on the new house so I get to, at very least, start moving my gear into the woodshop…. I mean, garage.

Thanks again.


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## BlackRibbonDesigns (Mar 20, 2018)

> One thing I m not sure was mentioned, but are resources for information are woodworking periodicals. You can subscribe and look forward to reading them each month. They all have projects with detailed explanations of how to build them. Most are with tools and equipment that a weekend warrior would have available. They also have tips and tricks which can be helpful. Aside from a new subscription, try visiting a second hand book store. Many carry old issues at 50 cent a piece and also have books on cabinet making and woodworking.
> 
> - builtinbkyn


Awesome suggestion. Any magazines in particular that I should look into?


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## builtinbkyn (Oct 29, 2015)

The few I look at are Fine Woodworking, Woodworker's Journal and Popular Woodworking.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

I would buy the Taunton books instead of subscribe to Fine Woodworking, cheaper, and it's the same info all in one place.


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## fivecodys (Dec 2, 2013)

Steve Ramsey was the reason I returned to woodworking. He made it fun again after I had pretty much burned myself out. He got me hooked on YouTube woodworking videos. I have learned so much from guys like Jay Bates, Frank Makes, The Wood Whisperer, Matthias Wandel…and many many others.
The great thing is it's all free and at your fingertips.
It's up to you… if you think you need a more structured format then give Steve's program a go.

Have fun!

Chem


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