# glue for a glue-up



## harum (Nov 25, 2013)

Hello, looking for the right glue for a table top glue-up. I plan to finish the table top with a polyurethane varnish. I have read that Titebond PVA-based glues, and similar, should be only used along with screws, nails, etc., and never without reinforcement; and that polyurethane or hide glues are strong enough to be used without reinforcement of any kind. From many LJ-ers projects, my impression has been that Titebond II and III is what most people use for their table top glue-ups held by glue only. Should I be fine with Titebond II? Would appreciate any comment.


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## TheGermanJoiner (Dec 1, 2013)

Here's a link from fine woodworking. Go pva 
http://www.oldbrownglue.com/pdf/HowStrongisYourGlue_FWW.pdf


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I generally use Titebond I (the original with the red label) ... never had a problem.

Titebond II yields a longer open time, while Titebond III is a waterproof glue.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

I use Titebond II for most of my glueups. The glue joint is stronger that the surrounding wood fibers. You don't need any additional reinforcement like biscuits or dowels.


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## JonHitThingWithRock (Sep 7, 2013)

I'd go titebond-whatever, polyurethane glues are a pita, and not really that much stronger, with a table-top you have a ton of long-grain to long-grain contact, the whole needing screws thing sounds like poly-glue propaganda


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## nwbusa (Feb 21, 2012)

To simplify my life, I just buy TB3 for my PVA glue needs. But yeah, any of the TB line will do just fine for your table, with no need for mechanical reinforcement. Dowels can be helpful for alignment but not needed for structural support.


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## harum (Nov 25, 2013)

Appreciate all the replies and the Fine Woodworking article. TB it is!


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

FWIW … I have never bought into the line that polyurethane glues (e.g. Gorlilla Glue) is stronger than PVA.

I think it is weaker, an opinion that seems to be borne out in tests recently done by Matthias Wandel ( see: 



 ).

In fairness, his test was first aimed at determining the gap-filling properties, but IMHO his results also speak to strength as well.

I have had polyurethane joints fail, but never a PVA joint.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

I just use Titebond II for everything except for cutting boards (I use Titebond III due to waterproofness for that). Buy it by the gallon and call it good.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

PVA glues, whether Titebond or Gorilla or some other brand, are just fine.
I've been using the Gorilla PVA 'cause it seems to have a quicker "grab" time. I tend to glue/assemble in component segments. It keeps me from having the panic of a big glue up with short time requirements.
Where did you find the info about PVA needing mechanical "help"?
BTW, water PROOF and water RESISTANT are totally different features.
Bill


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## harum (Nov 25, 2013)

Bill, thank you for the advice. Here is the link on "mechanical support": "http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infadh/infadhe.html". Or a quote from the source:

"Though widely used by woodworkers, PVA's are not really suitable as a primary adhesive or for edge gluing… attaching boards together to make wide surfaces such as tabletops or other furniture. They are "plastic", so without other supporting fasteners such as screws or nails, metal reinforcements or dowels, the glued joints will eventually break apart. For pro-quality wood gluing where extra fasteners might get in the way, read the sections in this chapter on polyurethane glue and hide glues."

"... will eventually break apart."-hmm…, don't want that.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Hmmm … never heard of Jerry Alonzy. I wonder what he bases his opinion on?

I have seen countless demonstrations (both online and at woodworking shows and seminars) that tend to prove just the opposite. In every instance I have seen, breaking an edge-glued joint that was done with a PVA (e.g. TiteBond I, II, or III) results in the wood fibers on either side of the joint failing rather than the glue joint itself. Thus it can be concluded that the glue joint is stronger than the wood itself.

I guess it comes down to a choice of who you are going to believe.


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## JonHitThingWithRock (Sep 7, 2013)

I bet he was paid by gorilla to help drum up sales of polyurethane glue, might just be my inner conspiracy theorist talking


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## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

edited


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## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

JMartel…you must use more glue than I do! I find it hard to use the quart size bottles before they get unusable.

I have moved to TBII for everything. I really like it because I think it finishes much better than the older "yellow glues" (Elmer's/TB I, etc).


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## harum (Nov 25, 2013)

Well, formally, there is no contradiction between the two articles mentioned above. They talk about relative glue strengths at different time scales: in one article, the joints seemed to be tested shortly after glues dried; in the other, the author says "eventually", which may mean anything, weeks, months, or years. Hard to tell…


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

Depending on the size of the glue up, I might recommend this for your original post. TBII makes an extended version, if you need more time to get those boards together.


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