# 12x12 Workshop realistic? My workshop woes...



## Biddles (Apr 6, 2017)

I've been yearning for a real workshop for years, and finally I am in a permanent place to do so. My previous attempt at a workshop failed miserably when the landlord evicted me after fixing the entire basement and setting up shop… I had to sell off all my tools when I moved and it's been about 5 years since that happened. Now however I have options, but still I feel limited. My basement is big enough, but the entrance to get into it is so steep and narrow with limited head space as well. It would be a constant struggle trying to get wood in and out, (even 2×4's are annoyingly angled in) and any finished projects would be very hard to get out or have to be assembled elsewhere. It's a real shame.

So my other option is a 12×12 shed. Where I live anything bigger requires a permit, and from what I've asked around from people who specialize in getting permits my taxes would go up with anything bigger than a 12×12 shed… Just how much I don't know, but then there are the costs of getting the permits themselves. I was quoted $1100, and $1500 just to start the process of getting the permits with no guarantee's it would be approved…

Or perhaps the best option would be to hire someone to expand the stairs to the basement, make it wider, and put in a wider door. The outside wall of the stairs is part of the foundation that holds the house up though, so I'm not sure what kind of headache that creates but I know it would require permits too.

So back to the 12×12 shed. I can have more than one, but workflow becomes an issue. Do you really want to work on a piece of wood, and then take it to another machine in another shed to continue? I'm not a pro, I'm just a hobbyist, but having a good setup and easy access to everything all at once makes a big difference. Each shed is roughly $2500 in materials if I build it myself.

These are some of the tools I have in mind, with the dimensions, I'm not good with 3d rendering programs or any of that stuff like I see in other threads, but I also have to put a workbench in there. I'm just not sure I could pull it off comfortably with 144sq ft. There are still other tools I want, drill press, sanders, etc… Utilizing this space properly is the hardest part.

*Table Saw*: Grizzly G0771Z
Overall dimensions: 64" W x 40-1/2" D x 36" H
*Bandsaw*: Grizzly G0513ANV
Overall dimensions: 32" W x 32" D x 73" H
*Jointer*: Grizzly G0725
Overall dimensions: 29-1/2" W x 19-3/4" D x 12-1/2" H

*Workbench*
Overall dimensions 24" D x 64"

Then again I see this girl did it, although with some smaller tools, and husky rolling benches, etc… but after seeing her do it I think I should be ok. She's from the same neck of the woods, so it's no surprise she's got a 12×12 shed like I've been planning.






It's just a headache getting started, and hard to commit to anything right now because I can't visualize it, but the 12×12 seems like the only option for me. Any help or advice greatly appreciated. I've just been exhausting my brain overthinking everything lately, I just want to get started.


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## WoodenDreams (Aug 23, 2018)

The main area of my workshop is 14×14. You didn't mention what area your in. Would you need heat in the winter or A/C in the summer. You may be surprised how many have small shops. Check out youtube and search 'small woodworking shop' to get some ideas 




Put away enough moola to finish the shed once started. Don't over think it, or you'll still be thinking about it eight months from now. In my neck of the woods, a shed must be considered portable or a permit is required. Which means no concrete footings or concrete floor. Portable can be setting it on blocks with studs and plywood. The 12×12 shed you highlighted on youtube looks like a workable plan. And using casters on all equipment stations. Using the top of tool chests for work benches is workable.


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## WalkerR (Feb 8, 2017)

Every time there is a thread like this I see a few of the same things mentioned like heating/Cooling/airflow. Be creative with storage space, like having a high ceiling and adding lofts for storage. larger tools and workbench on casters. Consider how to expand your work flow area during good weather, i.e. is the door wide enough to run 4×8 sheets through? Some folks have designed windows with shutters that fold down and act as an outfeed table. Some cleverly placed windows could solve your two sheds workflow problem.


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

+1 With small work space, have to learn how to color outside the lines, while working in 3D? :-0)

For several years my work shop was 8×8x20 metal sea shipping container sitting in AZ sunshine. Cost me $1200 delivered to back yard on back of flat top tow truck. Had 2 large 4×8 doors, but still broke down sheet goods outside the front door. Used those plastic strip door like found on commercial freezer to be able to go in/out easy and keep it cool inside. Had a nice 2.5" thick solid hardwood floor. Installed an attic exhaust fan, window AC unit, some spray on insulation, and 60A sub panel feed by 50A RV outlet hanging off the breaker panel. Only had one 220V tool at that time. Hardest part was wood storage. Didn't have space to hoard much wood. Also was struggle to build anything larger, or numerous. Built kitchen/bath cabinets and built-in book cases for home remodel out of that sea box. Used a 10×10 Ez-UP shade canopy on shady side of box for an extra assembly table and spray finishing area for large projects when weather was decent. Since box was portable, and power panel was fed by extension cord, no building permits required. Eventually added rented a second one for storage during remodel construction.

Had a friend find a cheap 8×8x32 portable office/school room trailer that he converted to a wood shop. Came with sub panel, vinyl floors, overhead florescent lights, plus windows and doors; what more could you ask for?  There are some work flow advantages to long and skinny, plus you get extra wall space. 

IMHO - HOA rules are bigger impediment to many folks choice in out buildings for work shop, not building permits. My HOA wouldn't let me have the 8' high sea box, as it was eye sore over the concrete block fence separating homes. They also limit my ability to have large 'travel' trailer next to house as work space. :-( So I work in 2 car garage, park cars outside, and build shed for storage!

Planning a work shop is never easy. Best Luck.


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## Biddles (Apr 6, 2017)

Here is a guide to an approved shed build for my area. Concrete pier footings are recommended, but not necessarily mandatory. I plan to live here for a long time so I figured I'd do it right.

https://www.brookhavenny.gov/DocumentCenter/View/873/Sheds-PDF

I didn't think too much about the weather. I figured I'd get a small space heater in the winter, and have enough windows/vents with a good fan in the summer. For now. I've always been interested in solar power, and wonder what it would take to power an air conditioner with just solar power.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

Good luck on your shop project. I just started my build a few weeks ago. Had no problem getting the permit, $120 in cost. I spent over a year in the design and went back to add length to the shop, planning ahead. It is my goal to have the shell, exterior finishes and electrical system completed in 3 months. I work full time so it evenings and weekends for the build.

Depending on your builds and planning that size shop could work out very well If you have a second one set up you can use that as your finish area and storage. We all work with what we have available in space to pursue the hobbies. I have had a few places, with big and little shops, and it worked. To me a deadicated shop is great, don't have to put everything up to put the car back.


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## Biddles (Apr 6, 2017)

Its the permit stuff and increases in taxes that worry me. Plus I would need building plans to submit and include with a survey of my property, and I dont want to open a can of worms. New York is notorious for this stuff going bad. I think a 12×16 would be perfect for my needs, that extra 48sq ft makes a world of difference.

I wonder if someone could get me a set of 12×16 building plans that match my states specifications.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

I am with Eric in the Upstate of South Carolina. Taxes and permits are easy here but I live in a "Historic District" and the review board likes to veto almost everything. Sometimes it is better to just sneak things in if it is not to big. My shed is 10' x 16' and is to small but I am having fun trying to make it work. My plan is to do with it what I can and then apply for a permit to build a garage (they are quieter than a shop). If that falls through I am going to drag my shop over several feet and attache a taller and larger wing on it without permission and add a deck for outside work when the weather is nice. Than add a storage building for stuff that I don't need in my shop along with plywood sheet goods and such. Things will change so just be ready to adapt. I was all about power tools when I started but have been drawn into hand tools, so now I have both. The biggest problem I have is ripping long stock. Good luck!


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## becikeja (Sep 12, 2010)

> Its the permit stuff and increases in taxes that worry me. Plus I would need building plans to submit and include with a survey of my property, and I dont want to open a can of worms. New York is notorious for this stuff going bad. I think a 12×16 would be perfect for my needs, that extra 48sq ft makes a world of difference.
> 
> I wonder if someone could get me a set of 12×16 building plans that match my states specifications.
> 
> - Biddles


Don't over think this. I'm finishing up a new workshop build in my back yard as I type this.. Should be finished next weekend. Lets hope… HOA was a bit of concern, and like you needed drawings for the permits. Simply did a sketch on notebook paper with dimensions. Then description of electrical work, concrete work etc…. The only issue I had was that the HOA required it be covered in brick to match the house. Since this is a detached garage, tax increase and home insurance increase was negligible. If I had attached it to the house, or if I added water, it would have been a different story. The assumption is once plumbing is added someone could essentially live in there and that changes everything.


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## natgas (Sep 11, 2015)

I purchased a 12×32 and thought it would be like a mansion with loads of space; not so, wish I had sprung for a 16×48 so I could have plenty of room


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## Biddles (Apr 6, 2017)

Yea Im strongly considering just buikding a 12×16, and concealing it because my property is a decent size, and bushes woukd completely cover two sides, and I could just do a vine fence or something to cover the side that could be visible from the street…. Even though mt neoghbors are awesome you never know if one would make a call and complain.


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## GT350 (Dec 22, 2012)

I don't know what area you live in but where I live the building department is easy to work with. I have added on to my house, put in a hot tub with it's own breaker panel, completely tore out and remodeled the kitchen and never had a problem with the building department. I almost forgot I put in a 100 amp panel and all wiring with conduit in my shop. It helps to draw up some plans and then take them to the building department along with lot lines and have the inspector take a look. Respect for their work and their respect for yours goes a long way. I wouldn't worry about hear say though.


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## bilyo (May 20, 2015)

Here is an opposite point of view. You say that your basement is suitable except the access is too small. Assuming that there are no issues with noise and dust in the rest of the house, fixing the access is a no brainer. You might have to hire someone to re-work the foundation wall for wider access but, most if not all of the rest of the work you can do yourself. Doing this one project will solve all of the other concerns regarding space, power, heating, cooling, and neighbor relations. 
I have a 20×16 shop and it is barely adequate. You won't be satisfied with 12×12 or 12×16.


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## Biddles (Apr 6, 2017)

Im glad you gave your point of view, I used to work in brick and masonry and still know a few people, I'll make some calls to see what it would cost.

The only downside to the basement build is I'll never get that pool table I always wanted 

Truly I appreciate all the help given. Helps me put everything in perspective.


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

Suggestions:

+1 simple respect of building permit process, earns you a lot of help/respect.

Have worked with many different city/county building permit offices several times in last 40 years, and they all want to help, and with minimum amount of paperwork for both sides. They prefer you call/stop by and ask questions for help, then make assumptions and attempt to argue drawing interpretation during inspection stages. Be sure to ask about inspection steps, or ask for the full blown building permit guidelines. If they have shed PDF, they have a much longer version for real buildings.

- Building permits for uninhabitable space (no water/plumbing) are easier to get. Rules are relaxed on quality/quantity of prints required. The PDF you posted shows the 4 details they want to see: land plot, top view walls, top view footing, and side detail view. That is a max of 4 sheets of paper - Period. 
It is NOT like getting a home permit where they require massive pile of prints with all kinds of details.
TBH - you could cut and paste the building drawings they provided in PDF with proper overall dimensions on outside and be done very quickly. I can be that simple.
If you don't want to use concrete footing piers, then call and ask about alternate methods. One common accepted method often includes 'floating' base frame (pressure treated wood and/or metal) on proper concrete/gravel pad with cable/metal straps attached to in ground anchors placed 12-24" below local frost line. Read the mobile home anchoring section of your building code for rough guideline.  Can buy screw into ground metal trailer/shed anchors commercially, but they are no fun to install.

- Building permit folks are supposed to keep records of all work done on each property. Can often obtain a print of existing land plot from them for a printing fee. Nice part about existing land plot, is should have all the easements drawn out, which will help locate the shed where it is allowed. For shed, can just draw on top of old drawing to show new shed location. Land plot done.

- If you lack the skills to sketch on paper, or cut and paste the PDF file; hire a drafting person (cheaper) or architect. Drafts people work by hour, and would need only a couple hours to recreate the required shed drawings. My CAD skills were too rusty and hired some one to draw up a 1800 sqft addition and remodel to existing home for < $1200 that I did 15 years ago. Drawing services can be found cheap as the best folks work FAST. Ask your realtor, or any builder friends if they know any drafting folks. Look in 'gigs wanted' section of CL. With lock down, drawing is something that can be done remote and at home. Lots of people do it as second income on side.

- If you are having issues visualizing the entire work shop project, stop. Don't get hung up on where to put tools/outlets. First focus on building the biggest shed you fit and afford. Shed work spaces are constantly evolving, and changing as you use them. Leave walls unfinished on inside. Make the electrical permit plan really simple; just show a panel with one 120v outlet, one 240 outlet, and light with a switch. Once shed is complete and approved, then figure out rest. You can 'minor' upgrade electrical panel with extra outlets without a permit as long as you don't permanently install HVAC or water heater that requires inspection. :-0)

Last but not least: Costs are always higher than initial estimates.

Reason you were quoted over $1000 for getting permit, is it takes lots of time to deal with paper. Drafter will get almost half of that money. There is small permit fee by county/state too.

Be cautious about your electrical plan: Costs add up quick. Estimate every 120v GFCI outlet circuit costs ~$50 in materials alone. A 30A 240v circuit is double that due cost of heavy wire/outlet. Cost me $500 in materials alone to upgrade my present garage shop with (3) 240v circuits, (6) 120v circuits in existing panel. More if count light fixtures and cooling fans.

Little things will cost a lot. Spent $200+ on the wire alone for main run of 50A service to a sub panel in my 6×12 shed couple weeks ago. Turns out the 1 gal of primer and 1 gal of paint planned for shed,ending up being 6+ gallons at ~$200. Don't forget the case of caulking and/or panel adhesive, vapor barrier, and insulation; that is if want to seal things up to keep bugs out and indoor temperature indoor?

My first 'shed' and electrical sub-panel seemed like daunting shop projects when I did them 40+ years ago. Now the plans pop out of my brain, even while I sleep, and I don't need to upgrade. LOL

Like this one I just finished after several months of part time work:

















Live in a rental home with neighborhood full of HOA Nazi. This one is built as portable unit on a welded frame that fits on a 6×12 trailer to haul to next place. No permit required by limiting height and size. Power is supplied via a RV extension cord. Wife calls it my man cave. She wants one for a she shed now. 

Best Luck.


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## JCamp (Nov 22, 2016)

When I was a teen we had a 10×16 work shop and it worked out well. I think a 12×12 could b very nice. I would suggest a nice set of double doors or a garage door on one side with a large concrete slab that u can roll some equipment out on and work. Maybe have it covered by a pergola to provide some shade while you work.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Wish I had that much room….









THIS is what I had to work in….add in an 8' plank that needs cut..









And a "large" assembly area…









Welcome to The Dungeon Woodworking Shop..


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## Dakkar (Feb 14, 2013)

I think the best way to manage when you're limited to a small shop enclosure is to design to maximize us of exterior space. If at all possible have one wall with wide double doors and a deck or patio area beyond that can serve as temporary expansion space when weather permits. A 12×12 space could contain a nice selection of stationary tools on rolling bases that could be spread out for the indoor/outdoor workspace.

Other than that, of course, you'll want to make the most of the space by limiting yourself only to those tools most needed to accomplish your woodworking goals. Most of my own woodworking projects are small, and I also enjoy hand woodworking as much as I find reasonable, so I do well enough with fewer based tabletop tools like a drill press, small bandsaw, scroll saw and a small table saw.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

The first tool that I got rid of was my chop saw. Way too big of a spacehog in a tiny shop. After I add a lumber rack (ordered today) from Grizzly along with some more shelves it will be on to a flip cart for planer and sander. On from that to a tool cabinet & plane till. Each time I run out of room it is the birth of a new shop project.

I think it will be easy to extend a wall out a bit when the HOA lets their guard down. You could frame up the floor in such a way that it will give you a deck. after a while you could magically adopt that to inside space and add a new deck.


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

My old shop was a 10×16 detached garage with a roll-up door and I made that work. It got cramped at times but when it was nice I wheeled the table saw and miter saw into the drive way. The smaller space really forces you to think about your workflow and build order but I dont really see that as a drawback.

If you're on the fence about the size of the shop I say its worth it to call your local permit office. I haven't dealt with the one where I currently live but at my old house they were super helpful. We wanted to put a bathroom in a finished basement. I gave them a call, they took my email address, and sent me a punch list of all the things they needed to get a permit. I spent like 30 bucks on some cheap blueprint software that was barely usable but was all they needed to give me my permit. Like CaptainKlutz stated they aren't trying to keep you from making improvements to your property. They just want to make sure its done safely and within code.


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

How many sheds are allowed?

Two facing each other with concrete pad between and rollup doors and a connecting awning…. is just a thought.


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## Biddles (Apr 6, 2017)

I called the building department about the permit, and they said it really shouldn't be a problem to get a 12×24 shed as long as I have the proper paperwork which includes the basic plans, and a survey showing the property as is, and as it will be with the proposed shed location.

The survey was done about 4 years ago when we got the house, but it has to be done within the last year, so that kinda sucks since nothings changed. I'm going to call the same guy who did it last time and see if he can "update it" and maybe I can save a few dollars because it typically costs $750 for a survey. When the shed is done he'll have to come back and do another survey….

Looks like I'll get what I wanted, but the survey stuff is going to cost a little chunk of change. In the end it'll be well worth it though. 12×24 is like a dream to me. I'll be able to get a full size workbench in there, and still I'll be conscious of how I set everything up. I've been looking at a lot of workshops, and I love seeing small ones where people really make the most of their space, so I'll be doing the same.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm pretty busy as is so I'm not going to be able to get the ball rolling just yet, waiting to finish this 20×20 deck built around the hot tub I just got… Pressure treated wood has been hard to come by since Covid-19. If I start the shed before I finish the deck, my women might kill me.


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## BlasterStumps (Mar 13, 2017)

Don't you have a plat of the property? The planning dept will be interested in seeing set back from property line and relation to other structures, road or street. You shouldn't have to have another survey. Seems excessive.


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## ac0rn (Jan 31, 2020)

Local building planners are usually willing to listen, and they have common sense too. Besides calling on the telephone, I suggest you take your current survey in to town for an in-person discussion. If there has been no changes to the property that need to be reflected on the survey they may accept what you have. Did you permit the deck and tub?


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## Biddles (Apr 6, 2017)

No we did not permit the deck or hot tub, the deck was there, just falling apart so we're redoing it, but extending it an extra 4 ft to accommodate the hot tub. We ordered the hot tub expecting to put a slab in one spot on the property, but it turned out there was a cesspool there. Poor planning on my part, just never knew where it was, and its very close to the house. So instead of cancelling the hot tub and paying a big restocking fee I cut the deck in half, put a 4" slab down, used concrete post piers and pressure treated 4×4's to get my desired height. It's overbuilt for sure.

Now I don't know if the towns going to have an issue with it. Or if I need to get it legalized, etc…


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## ac0rn (Jan 31, 2020)

You would have an issue here because of the electrical work. Can you make it a Cold Tub?


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## Biddles (Apr 6, 2017)

I havent found anything in my area that dictates a permit is required for the hot tub.

But in the meantime I talked to my old masonry buddy and he said expanding the basement door opening is a 1 day job for him if I do the door. Simple cut, and cement. My basement space is roughly 16×20. Seems like the quickest and cheapest solution to my dilemna.


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## luberis (Jun 17, 2020)

+1


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## P89DC (Oct 1, 2017)

16×20 is nice shop space. Only downside to my basement shops is lower ceiling height. I'm in an older single car garage that's 11×23 with 11ft ceilings. Best shop space I've ever had. Any bigger and I'd just fill it with more stuff.


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## Biddles (Apr 6, 2017)

Yea the ceiling hwight is only about 7ft, shorter by the main beam, but its the cheapest and easiest solution to getting started sooner, and frees up more money for tools.


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## JCamp (Nov 22, 2016)

Just look at it this way, if you or the wife don't like the basement solution then u can always build a shop later. In the mean time have very good ventilation down there. Mayb even consider one of those rubbermade buildings for a finishing room so the smells don't drift upstairs


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## P89DC (Oct 1, 2017)

> Yea the ceiling hwight is only about 7ft, shorter by the main beam, but its the cheapest and easiest solution to getting started sooner, and frees up more money for tools.
> 
> - Biddles


Basement shops are good. After a few months you'll duck under that beam esp after a few bruises  Sounds as if it's the best option and as noted you can always build in the future.


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