# Do Not Read This Thread!



## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

I'm pissed off and feel like ranting a little. Leave now if you don't give a damn. I am a woodworker, I build things out of wood! I choose the wood I use based on what I want the item to look like. Holly is pure white and Ebony is black, there is a wood for every color and grain type in between these 2. Hundreds of different looking woods and different finishes to achieve the appearance you want, like oil based to pop the grain and darken the wood some or water based for a crystal clear natural appearance. So what the Hell is up with everyone using all these F*ed up stains and dyes to hide the looks of their amazing wood? A really good friend of mine asked me to make a set of legs for a coffee table he has. 2 legs were broken and repaired badly and a 3rd one was lost in a move. He asked me if I would make a new set of 4 to match the originals. I couldn't figure out what kind of wood he had so I sanded down one of the old legs, they are red oak. I made 4 new legs out of 6/4 red oak and made sure I ran the grain the right way for table legs, that is why 2 of them had broken, they were made of cross grain wood. Now comes the F*ed up part, I had to match the stain on the originals. Damn stuff is a cross between red and orange and MinWax calls it MAPLE. What the Hell, Maple isn't redish orange, it's a light tan color. People build a table out of some great Red oak and then put this ugly crap on it to make it look like what some dumbass thinks maple should look like. This crap is worse than Mahogany stain. Who ever came up with the idea that dark red is the color of Mahogany, it's a medium light redish brown before anyone screws it up. Put the god damn paint cans down and make something that looks like wood!!!!! And before anyone says a damn word about it, I don't know how to make paragraphs on this stupid site! RANT OVER!


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Different folks. 
Different strokes.


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

Hmmmm. I think I agree, papa.


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## jbertelson (Sep 26, 2009)

Happy 4th of July!!! Dan.

You need to refinish the table and the legs, Dan. You know. That's how it is done.

I thoroughly enjoyed your absolutely wonderful rant. I am sure it cleansed your soul.

Have a good one, Dan… (-:

PS, I am contemplating replacing a chipped out piece of a maple railing here in La Conner WA at our vacation home. At least this maple looks like maple…


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## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

LOVE IT!


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

You know papadan, I could not care less about you and your attitude toward me and that is why I have you blocked. That said, trying to match stains is a chore, AND IF YOU DO NOT MATCH YOUR LIGHTING CONDITIONS BETWEEN SHOP AND DISPLAY LOCATION, you will fail. Spent several weeks figuring this out on my own during a restoration of a +100yr old piece of furniture. CFB, Halogen, LED, LCDs, incandescent, etc. are ALL different, regardless of lighting "temperature."

That part you will have to figure out on your own, but it is do-able.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

Hello Mike, Not sure of an attitude towards you, but to each his own. I'm blocked by several people so I can't offer any advice to them, or laugh at their jokes! Life goes on. Yo Jim, I ain't gonna refinish the whole thing, too damn much work, I like building new, if he wasn't a close friend I wouldn't do the legs.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

Sorry, I read it anyway….

I have nothing against staining wood, especially oak, it's ugly natural. 
Many woods benefit in looks from stain, and many times stain is required for a piece of furniture to go with the decorations/accents of the room.

Matching stained wood isn't easy, it's almost an art. 
I just look at it as another challenge to test me. (If it were easy, anybody could do it!) lol

Being in business, many jobs will require matching the stain. 
Having the ability to do it may be the difference in getting the job or not.
I look at it as another skill to have under my belt that keeps me making a living.

Plus it's a given that it will cost more!

Pay no attention to spammers!

PS
I still don't get why someone will block you, 
then feel the need to comment on your thread, go figure!


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## johnstoneb (Jun 14, 2012)

Good rant


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

I had to explain to my friends wife about selecting a color close to what you want. And not try to stain the piss out of everything.

It's ok Mike. I don't like you if papa even if does.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Good rant. Everybody needs to release pressure now and then.
For my money however, I'm willing to give anything a pass that makes red oak look like …... not red oak!
Just my opinion.


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## JCamp (Nov 22, 2016)

For me I never worked with anything other than pine (and a few boards of poplar) until a couple years ago. I didn't have the money or resources to get other types of lumber so anything I did that I wanted a certain color I either painted or stained. That being said I am one of those ppl that hate seeing all this stuff painted.
Just offering another perspective on it….. ignorance is bliss right?


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## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

As someone above said, to each his own. When I stain, I use a very dilute aniline dye and don't go for a drastic change. Except when I go for a radical change. This time the blonde shellac was colored and built up. This particular guitar is also a polishing toy, reversible and I can do another color or go back to the original burst

http://lumberjocks.com/Texcaster/blog/42796


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

> For my money however, I m willing to give anything a pass that makes red oak look like …... not red oak!
> Just my opinion.
> 
> - shipwright


Sounds like you admire red oak about as I do


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

I'm not a fan of Oak but if that is the color I need to work with I use it.


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## MikeB_UK (Jul 27, 2015)

I'm pretty much limited to construction lumber here, so it either has to get stained or stay a sort of ugly-arse yellow 

I'm with you on stains that look nothing like they are supposed to though.

Press enter to get a paragraph


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> I m pretty much limited to construction lumber here, so it either has to get stained or stay a sort of ugly-arse yellow
> 
> I m with you on stains that look nothing like they are supposed to though.
> 
> ...


+1 on the paragraph. I never got through his whole post, to run together hard to read.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

There is a time and place for everything. Refinishing is one of them whether we like it or not. So dyes and stains do have their place, especially on period pieces. Skills & sometime luck to get a perfect match is not easy sometimes.

I don't like using dyes, fillers or stains but on new wood but they have place in refinishing process.

So there you go hope you got it all out and feel better!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Love the rant, and really like the tags you applied to the post!

Hope you're feeling better. I am.

And yeah, it's called a Carriage Return, or Return key, or Enter key for paragraphs. Some readers are quite sensi about such things.


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## pontic (Sep 25, 2016)

Stain matching is an Art and a science. Or should I say color matching. So we must also consider dyes and Tannen conversions by chemicals or physics like heat and Light and steam.
the light it appears in is important or should I say the presence or absence of UV light and the amount of short WL. spectrum light.
That being said I like the natural look of the wood I choose. 
PS. I will never block Papa Dan.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

Yes, my rant is over, I managed to match the crap on the table.

Does not look like the Oak that it is, and does not look like the Maple it's called.

Ok, so maybe now I can put things in paragraphs!

I do have 2 people blocked, one that is not even here anymore, and hopefully never returns. And one that is here and just can't control his idiotic compulsions to attack me. LOL


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

Ahh another tough day in the shop. Have to admit that as I have progressed in skill I tend to not use stain or paint. Having said that some things require paint. See below. Good to hear you matched the stain, always a chore to get right.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

Looking good woodbutcher, construction lumber needs paint to make it tolerable. LOL


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

So does red oak!


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

Generally, I don't mind staining wood to get a desired result.

There was one time, though, when a client asked me if I could tone down the bright orange/yellow stripes in a piece of Macassar Ebony using a stain. I had to tell her that if I stained Macassar they would take away my woodworkers card. I refused to do it. The woman obviously had no appreciation for beautiful wood.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

I've stained Zebra wood before..
(I got no shame) lol


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## ThistleDown (Jun 8, 2016)

I read it and now I am mad. Snorted good whiskey out my nose laughing so hard.

It's OK, everybody thinks different. I know, or my wife would be married to some one else. 

Now that is out of your system, you can cover up that nice wood with crappy stain and forget it ever happened. "walk away from the wood."


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Before I do anything to these….


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

My dearest Jbay, Please destroy your woodworkers of the world card Right Damn Now! Why in the hell would anyone stain Zebra wood? I'm about to build a couple things out of this piece of old growth Zebra, and there is absolutely no way anyone will ever stain this hunk of splinters!!!!


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

> My dearest Jbay, *Please destroy your woodworkers of the world card* Right Damn Now! Why in the hell would anyone stain Zebra wood? I m about to build a couple things out of this piece of old growth Zebra, and there is absolutely no way anyone will ever stain this hunk of splinters!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't, 
that was taken away from me as soon as I started working with residential clients. 
Card went right out the window.

Sorry brother, I do whatever I have to to get paid…..It an't easy making a living doing this.


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

jbay, I wanted to reply to your post, but I was too flabbergasted to form complete sentences for a while.

The desk looks terrific, but, you could almost have gotten that look with PB and HPL. It just seems like a waste of a very expensive, rare and beautiful wood to use it that way.

I've seen entire kitchens made from Black Walnut only to be stained darker beyond all recognition. 
It saddens my heart.


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

I like red oak. Just not what it looks like. Or, what it smells like. Or, how it works. 
Otherwise, it's OK.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

I haven't found too many woods I didn't think were beautiful, and ugly. For example, I've used a lot of mahogany and didn't care for it because it looked fake because of the grain. On the other hand, I've used mahogany that turned a project around, when tied with another wood. Then there is poplar. I'll clear coat it one time and paint it the next.

I love oak, even if it is over done, just like walnut and all the other greats.

Here, on the west coast, fir is fire wood, the frame of a house or a beautiful picture frame or some other fine woodworking project. I hear the east coast could say the same of woods we pay big nickles for. Because fir is easy to come by, it can get old, for us, quickly. As such, I understand why people paint it, stain it, burn it and otherwise make it look like what it is not.

I've salvaged old dressers the veneer was peeling off of and found beautiful maple under it. Guess you could say that's stain on steroids.

In the end, it's all good or bad, depending on the day.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

White is so…bland..









Infamous Witch's Brew fixes….


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

This just reminded me of a funny one from a job I did a while back. There was an irony in it somewhere, me thinks.

I was asked to repair an exterior wall on a Street of Dreams home. It had suffered a lot of water damage. I tried to match the siding, with no luck. It was fiber board panels that looked like four 4" wide T&G horizontal boards.

I hit the big box, bought some cedar fencing, headed over to the tool store and bought a router bit with about a 1-1/2" wing. I removed the bearing and ground the bearing shaft off, then mounted the bit.

Because there was no bearing in the way, I was able to keep moving the wood over and taking off more, until I ended up with a wide cut and the boards looked like ones on the siding, though they were singles, rather than multiples of four stacked.

The irony, if that what it be, was the pride I felt at being able to make real wood look so much like the manufactured stuff, no one could tell where either stopped or started, once it was all painted.

Same principal, it seems.


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

> Now comes the F***ed up part, I had to match the stain on the originals. Damn stuff is a cross between red and orange and MinWax calls it MAPLE. What the Hell, Maple isn t redish orange, it s a light tan color.


Maple syrup color?


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

That's just wrong

[knee slap]



> I like red oak. Just not what it looks like. Or, what it smells like. Or, how it works.
> Otherwise, it s OK.
> 
> - Gene Howe


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

More red than syrup


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

> I ve seen entire kitchens made from Black Walnut only to be stained darker beyond all recognition.
> It saddens my heart.
> - DS


I don't have any better pics of this job than this…..4" thick Walnut treads, Walnut stringers and railing system. $80,000 dollar job….......they stained it blacker than the ace of spades. 
You couldn't even tell it was Walnut when they were done with it.
Just another example of 'more money than brains'.

















Paul, I know what you mean about Red Oak.
I burned some off cuts once….....my campfire was offended.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

Tony, 80K was just the cost of clamps.


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## Jim Jakosh (Nov 24, 2009)

Hi Dan. I question the color of a stain as opposed to it's name some times too. But they make it and I have to use it so I go by color only and not name. Some times I mix them or stain over stain to match something that I am making a part for and has to match.

I would always rather work with new and then try out the stain on new scrap wood to see if it is what I want , no matter what is is called.

It is good to vent once in a while…I usually do it in the shop when I royally screw up and the air turns blue!!!!!

Cheers, Jim
ps..Tony, that is an amazing staircase! Designer don't give a rip about natural wood color! It is becoming an artificial world!!


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Each to his own. Zebra way to busy for me. I think the stain on Jbay's desk was an improvement. I don't imagine I'd ever use Zebra wood by choice.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

AG, I love Zebra wood, it's like mixing Walnut and Maple without the straight lines. I prefer the old growth with the wide bands in it like that hunk I have.

By the way, the legs matched perfect and the table looks great…....if you're into orange!


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