# Plantation shutters joinery



## opalko (Feb 2, 2010)

I am making a set of plantation shutters (5 sets of 4 shutters = 20 shutters) for our kitchen windows. A single shutter is roughly 12"x60". I am using the Rockler shutter jig for the louvers but am stuck on the joinery of the frame. I made one set with M&T and they didn't turn out too well (the frames twisted during glue up and I think I now understand why).


















(The pictures here are deceiving, the frames are twisted and they don't close flush. I HATE THEM but my wife loves them)

I am doing one window at a time or 4 shutters (16 joints) and now working on the second set trying to do a better job!!

I have a Delta dedicated mortiser but have never mastered the thing. It took me forever to figure out if the mortise is not centered perfectly, you cannot just run each piece through it in the same position in the mortiser each time. They have to be mirrored so the offset is matched on the mating piece.. In any case, or, additionally, if the mortise isn't perfectly centered then the tenons on the rails can't be perfectly centered! Even off by 1/16" is enough to make things go cattywampus…AAAGGH. My tenons don't line up on the very first shutter for this second set and I am not about to do the other 3 in the same way since this one doesn't line up. I have never tried dowels but I assume they are just as finnicky getting everything lined up precisely.

Right now I am (you can flame me if you want) considering filling in the mortises with a floating tenon stub, then just using pocket screws. Is this a really bad idea? Otherwise I have to toss all this material and start from scratch again with some other method.

For the remaining windows would pocket hole joinery be adequate?


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## woodman71 (Apr 19, 2009)

Are you mill your on lumber meaning buy dry lumber and joint and plane it to final thickness? Our buy you lumber to the thickness you want. Ok with that let say store bought lumber that is saying 3/4 of inch will not always be that . If your mill your on lumber mill a few piece extra for test cuts. if your twisting when gluing up your m&t joint are not correct your using to much clamping pressure . Your M&T joint are to tight how are you making your joints are making your mortise first then make your tenons . If your using 3/4 inch as your thickness (you didn't say the thickness looks like 3/4) you can do it two way the first is 1/4 tenon is 1/4 cheek cuts . Our you could use a 3/8 thick tenon which is 1/8 cheek cuts . Our you saying after built they are twisting that just came to me . Which would make sense there in the windows sunlight maybe the lumber your using still have high moisture level. I would stay with M&T joinery maybe you need to use mortise and tenon with haunch to stop the twisting good luck


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## opalko (Feb 2, 2010)

The stiles and rails are 1-1/16" thick glued up from 2 3/4" pieces then planed down.

Sorry but I am not going to try the mortise machine and dado blade to make tenons again. The shoulders never match the line of the cheeks - another problem!


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

Pocket holes would be more than adequate. It's mainly an aesthetics thing. Both sides of the shutters will be visible, so that is up to you and your wife if seeing them (even if plugged) bothers you.

But pocket holes aren't necessarily easy, either. I don't know what level of experience you have with them, but I find that I have all sorts of problems keeping pieces flush. Your rails and stiles might be 1/32" or 1/16" off. I usually resort to about 5 clamps before driving the first pocket hole screw on visible joints.


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## opalko (Feb 2, 2010)

I've used pocket holes enough to know what you mean about them sliding when screwing down the fasteners needing lots of clamps. I just wanted to be sure they would be structurally strong enough to stand the movement of being opened and closed everyday.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

have you considered using dowels,thats what rockler recommends.i used the festool domino for the ones i made but thats an expensive tool you probably dont want to get into.i would not use pocket screws,yes you can plug the holes but i dont think youll be happy with the finished look.dowels is what id use you can buy an inexpensive jig.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

For some more insight, check out the shutter project Art did a while back (and the blog posts).

That many shutters requires some jigs and planing to avoid getting burned out and tacking up some wafer board instead when the storm hits 8^)


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## Harryn (Apr 25, 2011)

I have used the Rockler jig to make 20 shutters for a restored house. I used dowels for the joints . 8 years later they are fine.(outdoors even). Used a Dowl-It for the joints.


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## opalko (Feb 2, 2010)

I considered a dowel jig but for so e reason the Dowel-it is about as easy to find as toilet paper right now!!

Would a tongue and groove joint be strong enough / resistant to racking for this apicatiion?


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Man and perfection seldom happen together. :}

From what I can see is these look good.

This might help next time.

https://www.rockler.com/3-1-2-fixed-louver-shutter-jig-and-hardware?sid=V91040&promo=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla_with_promotion&utm_campaign=PL&tid=pla&gclid=CjwKCAjwkPX0BRBKEiwA7THxiABwOn_KHQd5DdZ2-O-SPsj1tf5fXcEz8WRleRUXr5b07mhJUtrMARoC8_8QAvD_BwE


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## opalko (Feb 2, 2010)

Jim, that is the jig I used for the louvers, but it doesn't have anything for frame joinery.


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## LeeRoyMan (Feb 23, 2019)

How wide are your stiles?
If you don't want to dowel them or M&T, Just glue and nail them, then put them in a clamp.
After they dry, drive a screw or 2 through the sides then plug them. Should be plenty strong enough.

The biggest thing is keeping them flat as they are clamped.


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## opalko (Feb 2, 2010)

2" stiles


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

there are many dowel jigs available from cheap to very expensive,dowels are the way to go.


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

You can also use half-lap joints in the corners. Almost as strong as m&t joints. Once you dial in your setup, they can be cut fast and accurately (just make sure all of your stock is EXACTLY the same thickness).


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Good tip Tony ,I remember reading a Finewoodworking article about the strongest joints , they put each type of joint through what they called a torcher test, the two strongest joints turned out to be "half-lap" and the "saddle joint" even stronger than either loose tenon or integral Mortice and tenon joinery because of their massive amount of glue surface.


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## LesB (Dec 21, 2008)

A little late now but this tool (PantoRouter) while expensive would have made the whole project, louvers and frames, a little easier and be useful for other projects, especially dovetails and box joint constructions. NO it is not an advertisement I have no interest in the company but I do own one and it works great. 
https://pantorouter.com


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## opalko (Feb 2, 2010)

I like this, unfortunately I don't have enough material on the rails to do this for this set. I think next window I will try it. I may have a different joinery technique for each window! Haha



> You can also use half-lap joints in the corners. Almost as strong as m&t joints. Once you dial in your setup, they can be cut fast and accurately (just make sure all of your stock is EXACTLY the same thickness).
> 
> - Tony1212


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

Look at Paul Sellers 4 video episodes on door making.
first one: 



What he says during the first 10' of this first video is valid whether you are working with hand tools or with machinery.

Warped doors is not necessarily linked to the joints, first of all, the wood used must be dry, straight, squared and without any twist.
After milling your wood, let it rest sometime and check it again before doing joinery.


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

A very important thing is to identify on each piece a reference face and a reference edge (perpendicular to the reference face) and take all measurements from those two reference surfaces.
This is illustrated in the video her where the stock used has not been four squared because one face will not be visible:
https://pfollansbee.wordpress.com/2020/04/23/make-a-joined-stool-video-tenons-cutting-splitting/


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## opalko (Feb 2, 2010)

I appreciate the posts about having uniform, flat pieces and marking mating pieces edges etc. I already do all this and it is not what caused the original 4 shutters to have problems. The joinery was flawed from overclamping and I overclamped to overcome poor fitting M&T joints, which were in turn caused by my impatience with a crappy mortiser and homemade tenoning jig. This last set that I didn't use the same method on turned out as near to perfect as I could want.


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

So finally, what did you do?


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

^^^^^SPAM^^^^


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## Meisterburger (Jun 26, 2020)

When I took apart an old set of exterior shutters to see about repairing them it was dowels and a straight glue joint. Simple but it worked well


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## BigMig (Mar 31, 2011)

I started a project that I intended to begin about 3 yrs ago…making external raised panel shutters for my house. I only have 2 complete frames (rails and stiles ) built to far, but I made mortises in both the rails and the stiles and am fitting loose tenons in there for strength. Seems great.

it's how the original shutters were made 75+ yrs ago, I suspect.

Mortises were cut w a plunge router…not super complicated, otherwise I wouldn't be able to manage it !
Just a thought.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

rockler suggests dowels but i used the domino and that worked perfect.


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## opalko (Feb 2, 2010)

Goood suggestions here from everyone….Didn't realize this thread was still going. I used double biscuits in the remaining sets with great success. Another poster on a different WW forum said he did this many years ago and his were still holding up well. So far so good on mine, and they are opened and closed everyday. I tested the biscuit frame by bouncing it on my driveway after the glue set up a day. The frame survived the test bounce (and 3 more times till I decided it was not going to fail). Happy with the final results but I don't want to build any more - ever!


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## stellarobert (Oct 12, 2021)

Who says these shutters did not turn out too well, I think it is perfect to match curtains and glass infant dyschezia.


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## Peteybadboy (Jan 23, 2013)

Not sure if anyone mentioned "rift" sawn lumber. It is very stable.


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