# Big Bang For Buck Belt Sharpener



## Bogeyguy

Ummmm, what is wrong with a bench grinder???


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## HorizontalMike

IT is much easier and much cheaper to change belt grits (80-600) than the expense of changing grinder stones.


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## b2rtch

A bench grinder turn to fast and overheat the tools.
Mike this is an excellent review and the pictures are also excellent. 
The writing is also excellent.I have lathe that I did not touch in a long time but if someday I need t sharpen my turning tools I shall do the same thing you did, 
Where did you by the buffing wheel?
Where did you buy the jig to hold the gouge?
Thank you.
Is this you on the bottom picture?


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## mbs

Good review, Mike.

Would you use this to sharpen your plane irons too?


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## a1Jim

thanks Mike very interesting.


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## HorizontalMike

mbs, already have used to sharpen HP irons  Beyond anything I could had accomplished before.

Bert, buffing wheel = amazon
gouge jig = Tru-Grind (way too much, but did not want to keep making new platforms/do-the-math etc.) Geez, it was like $70 or something ridiculous like that. If I had more experience, I probably could/should have gotten away with less.
Speed of honing wheel, bakes some wax on but not too much of any "real" problem. All wipes off with clothe. Some thought it would turn too slow…


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## Druid

Hi Mike, Glad to see that you mentioned that the belt direction is reversed for this type of use. Ryobi makes an almost identical unit, and on the outside of the box they show a photo of someone sharpening a hatchet with the blade up and the belt running downwards. As soon as the blade becomes sharp enough to cut into the belt, the sharpened hatchet is going to be flung right at the operator. Talk about an accident just waiting to happen!!!
With the conversion that you are mentioning, this hazard is eliminated.
One benefit of using this type of system is that the bevel will be flat, and it will match the angle that you have set up to grind. A bench grinder will produce a concave bevel matching the curve of the stone, and with smaller angled bevels, the result is a more fragile edge as compared to a flat grind. Your belt sharpener will also enable you to more easily add a "micro-bevel" to the tool edge if required, and it will be far easier to match it to the main bevel.
You also mentioned that the honing wheel was a bit fast. Have you tried using a smaller diameter buffing wheel so that the speed of the rim (in ft/sec) will be slower?
Anyhow, I looks like you are set up to keep those edges sharp. Great job.
Your last photo proves that this is a bright idea.


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## b2rtch

Could you reverse the motor rotation instead of twisting the belt?
If you could take the rotor out and install it back in 180 degrees and still install the pulley back on,and then install the motor 180 degrees from original, this should reverse the rotation.


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## HorizontalMike

At this point Bert, I do not know if that is possible or not. This works as I have it, and I will explore buying a backup belt for that inevitable time it will need replacing. IMO, bang-for-the-buck means that at some point, enough is good enough. This was quick and cheap. Too much "more" effort and then the advantage starts to fade, if you know what I mean.


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## greasemonkeyredneck

I am going to have to check into this one Mike. I think I may like this better than the bench grinder I've been using.

And I have a newfound respect for you after seeing you being brave enough to post that last photo.


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## b2rtch

I understand Mike


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## JollyGreen67

Hey Mike - Is that really you ?! Excellent idea for a cheep investment.


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## runswithscissors

I made a jig for sharpening planer knives based on similar principles. This consisted of a V shaped trough (piece of 1" angle iron) welded to a piece of 1/4" plate that bolts onto the sander in place of the fence. Adjustment for bevel angle is by tilting the jig toward or away from the platen. I also run mine in a vertical orientation. I did not consider reversing belt direction. As long as you maintain the bevel on the tool flat against the platen/sanding belt, I see no danger of the edge digging in and ruining the belt (or worse). The trough prevents the bottom edge from kicking out and tilting the knife into the belt. I also made a blade holder out of 1/4" aluminum plate I happened to have. This rides in the trough instead of the bare knife. Freehanding a hatchet might be a different matter. I have sharpened a lot of planer blades on mine with zero problems.


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## shelly_b

wow this is an awesome idea!! i have been turning more too, but am getting sooo frustrated with the sharpening! mainly the gouges are the problem. i have a craftsman bench grinder that was a hand me down, took the stones off b/c they were way too aggresive and new ones were expensive. bought the scary sharp system for it…it works…in a way. it is fine grit so it takes for ever unless you are just touching up, and i can't get it to quit getting too hot and blueing my tools. even if i just barely touch it! as soon as it gets to where it is ground enough that the wheel is touching the bevel it starts to burn. and having to resand the wheel gets really old! i am def. going to have to give this a try! i cannot justify spending the money on the expensive systems since i don't see it bringing any money in anytime soon. i am just tired of the tear out when i turn! i just remade a stretcher for a chair for a family member and wish i had seen this this lol. thank you for the idea


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## shelly_b

btw, i love the pic lol. i didn't notice the light the first time i looked at it


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## runswithscissors

P.S. When I sharpen planer and jointer knives on my belt sander (3 posts previous), I never had problems with overheating of the knives. They barely got warm.


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## HorizontalMike

Yup folks, that be me! To quote ZZ TOP: *It's *(I'm)* so bright I gotta' wear shades* (and a Doo Rag)! *;-)*

John, I do have a couple of smaller buffing wheels (came in a Ryobi buffing kit) and will probably give that a try as well. Had a bit of a fuss sizing the nylon sleeve for the arbor I purchased, so my wheel wobbles slightly. Would have been better, I believe, to have purchased the arbor with TWO set screws instead of just the one. Either way, these cotton wheels compensate for that really well. However, a hard wheeled leather strop would need that better grade arbor and more accurate nylon sleeve. I will probably turn a more accurate sleeve when I learn my lathe a bit more.

@runswithscissors, sounds like you are and old hand at this. Thanks for more suggestions/alternatives! I really think scaling these belts sander's duties down to sharpening status, really brings this machine into its own.

@Shelly, I glad this idea came to fruition so easily and that you like it! I felt much the same, though without the direct grinder experience and from hearing from others like you.


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## affyx

great review and nice mods - but the beard is the best part of this post!


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## Fallon

I can't get my belt to run straight on my HF sander for more than 30-60 seconds at a time. It either tries to escape and fly off or commit suicide tearing it self apart on the inside every time every time you glance away. I've spent a long time trying to get the tracking adjusted just right, but it never stays.


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## bandit571

Take it back and get a new one. H-F is very good at making a return painless.

Note: It may be an issue with the roller that adjusts. Maybe a fitting is loosene in it, bearing bad, dirt hiding in the adjuster, making you adjust too much, then the dirt can get out, and there goes the adjustment, again.

Sander looks good, Mike.


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## HorizontalMike

Fallon, if you didn't already know this, each of the rollers is higher/thicker in the center and tapers ever so slightly as you move to each of the roller's edges/ends. This allows the belt centering adjustment/action to be successful. If the roller has been milled/turned to where it is even all the way across, you will have such issues as you are having. Just a thought…


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## Tennessee

I think this is great. I have been kind of prowling around, thinking about my lathe, sitting in the corner. But the sharpening aspect always is a major holdup, since I also am in the "grinder" camp. This would have been 1000% better, and about the same money, as the PC variable speed grinder I bought to try and accomplish the same thing.


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## Tennessee

And to think I had one of these, and sold it at my last garage sale cause it was just terrible as a normal wood sander!! If only I had known….


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## HorizontalMike

Hey Paul, I was actually able to sharpen all of my 11 turning tools today (first time) without any major event or foul up! I want to shorten my gouge platform slightly, but other than that I am stoked! I'm using a 180 grit belt and that seems to be just right!


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## TheDane

Finally got the arbor for the buffing wheel today and finished assembly of my rig. Gave it a trial run on my spindle roughing gouge and one of my skews … works great!

FWIW, to bore out the nylon sleeve, I chucked in the lathe and used a Jacobs chuck. Also, my arbor came with 2 screws, but the shaft on the machine was only long enough to permit the use of one.

-Gerry


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## HorizontalMike

Gerry: "...FWIW, to bore out the nylon sleeve, I chucked in the lathe and used a Jacobs chuck. Also, my arbor came with 2 screws, but the shaft on the machine was only long enough to permit the use of one…."

What you said… as soon as I figure out how to do THAT. ;-) My big chuck is on back-order, though I do have a drill chuck. Just don't know how to secure something like that to the drive head. Almost thinking about mounting a large 3×3 piece to the drive head w/screws and then turning it down to the OD and drill out with the tail mounted drill chuck? My thoughts are that the sleeve should work just as well with a piece of hardwood for a sleeve?... What do you think?


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## TheDane

Might be OK if you use a hard/dense wood. To drill the sleeve out, in the absence of a scroll chuck, you could screw a chunk of 2×4 to a faceplate and use it as a jam chuck.

-Gerry


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## HorizontalMike

Well Gerry, I ended up using my 1×8tpi tap and drilled and tapped a hole in a 2×2x6in block and turned it with the live end on the tail. I played around with a variety of tools until I got a ~4in section down to the desired OD and then used the cutoff tool (need something better on that one).

Then I attempted to remove the live end w/#2MT and everything went south. The live end is wedged in the MT of the lead screw assembly. Tried everything, including suggestions from Delta Tech. I ended up knocking the bearing end of the 'live end' completely off, leaving only the MT 'male' embedded in the lead screw MT. Tried heat, cold and channel locks all to no avail.

The only thing I can even think of is either I didn't get the MT cleaned well before I used it, or I tightened the live end TOO much when setting up to turn for the first time. After a number of calls, I will be headed to a DeWalt/Delta Service Center in San Antonio Thursday. Looks like it might be covered under warranty though I openly admit to messing up the live end while trying to free it.

All that being said, it looks like replacing the honing wheel arbor sleeve is on hold for the moment. ;-)


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## TheDane

Rats! Good luck getting it back in operation.

-Gerry


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## mafe

Really cool!
Love that last picture.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## NormG

Sounds like it works for your needs and met you goal of being inexpensive, great idea, thanks for sharing


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## HorizontalMike

Update-After getting the live end morse taper stuck in the lead screw, I:

Ordered replacement parts, thinking that Delta would NOT cover it under Warranty
Took the stuck parts to the local authorized Delta service center, where I was told that Delta WOULD cover this under Warranty  and even fessed up about beating the living crap out of it trying to get it to break free.
 The local service center returned the scratched up lead screw to me, while replacement was on order. This one still appears to work, though the live end is history and long gone

Looks like I will end up sending the lead screw that I ordered, BACK to Delta for a refund minus sh.chg. This all happened IN LESS THAN 2-weeks. To me, it looks like Delta has their act together and past shipping issues appear to have been corrected on the most part. However, I am at 1-month and counting on waiting for my lathe extension and extension stand from Acme Tools. I do not know if there is a difference in dealing with Delta directly and in dealing with a retailer,... maybe.


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## toddc

Great review and tutorial. The end is hilarious thanks for leaving us with a smile


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## toddc

You take the best photos for explaining, really clear and good angles to relay the information.


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## Denco

That last pic is great! :-D


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## rfusca

After searching high and low, it looks like the article for this is posted separately on his website at http://www.truecreations.biz/files/DIYBeltSharpeningSystem_Dec2012_AAW_Journal.pdf . 
I'm planing on tackling one of these.


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## rfusca

So I've set this up, and it really does a pretty awesome job! Especially with the ShopSmith Ceramic belts!


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## edcarp

Hey Mike, where can you buy the replacement belt that you referred to in the article? Is it the same size as the original belt or is it longer? Thanks for posting the article.


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## HorizontalMike

Ed, it is the same size as the original.

The correct replacement belt is #3L220 (a lawn mower belt) and they were just $6 and fairly common in most belt and pulley shops. I bought two, but the first has never failed, even though it is operating in "twisted" mode. The overall length is 22in by 3/8in wide, hence the part number above.


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## WayneC

Thanks Mike, this is really interesting.


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## Buckethead

Great write up, and the last photo is awesome.


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## JoeinGa

Hmmm, how can it be that I've never noticed this post before. I thought I had read ALL the ideas on lathe tool sharpening! 
I've been struggling with sharpening my HSS lathe tools. Had (briefly) considered buying one o' the hi-dollar sharpening systems, but being one of those guys with "Champagne taste on a Dr Pepper budget" I just cant seem to justify re-directing that much $$$ from our budget. 
But THIS conversion you have done is quite do-able ! Thanks for sharing ! 
.
.


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## KevCamp

Hi, what is the red gouge grinding jig, and where is a good source for it? I started accumulating parts, today, and hopefully, tomorrow, I'll get the rest of them.


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## HorizontalMike

Kevcamp, 
The maker is Tru-Grind and is called "Woodcut". If I remember correctly, I got it from Packard Woodworks. I only got the base tool-holder and fabricated the rest. $74.95

http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=packard&Product_Code=141721&Category_Code=sharp-trugrin

http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=sharp-trugrin


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## HorizontalMike

Three Year UPDATE (May 2016):

After three years, I am STILL using the original belt (twisted for reverse action) I bought a couple of lawn mower belts as replacements IF this ever wears out…

The buffing wheel eventually smoothed out through use. And to tell the truth, I tend to use the buffing wheel and the green honing stick/compound more often than the grinder. Great for mirror finishes on cutters.


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## TheDane

> The buffing wheel eventually smoothed out through use. And to tell the truth, I tend to use the buffing wheel and the green honing stick/compound more often than the grinder. Great for mirror finishes on cutters.


Same here … the belt sander gets used some, but the wheel is used a lot. For sharpening, I acquired a set of CBN wheels, and a Wolverine system.

I still think this belt sander is a good option for a sharpening rig … it just isn't practical for me as, in addition to my own shop, I turn in other shops that are all equipped with the Wolverine systems.


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## HorizontalMike

Nice to hear from you Gerry. You have been much more active in turning than I lately, I am overwhelmed and jealous! Well done!

I have been spending much time repairing and upgrading my Harley after hitting another deer back this past February. Thirty-two days in the hospital did me no favors, but things are getting better slowly. Don't wish to repeat this again (my 3rd deer), after all they say third time is the charm ;-) ...

That said, I do have a couple of lathe projects that I am looking at, as my next WW-ing projects. Ran out of room for furniture, so moving to smaller things like boxes and do-dads.
Michael


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## TheDane

> Ran out of room for furniture, so moving to smaller things like boxes and do-dads.


LOL … I solved that problem by moving into a house with a bigger basement!

Three deer? That's a tough way to thin the herd!


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## HorizontalMike

> Ran out of room for furniture, so moving to smaller things like boxes and do-dads.
> LOL … I solved that problem by moving into a house with a bigger basement!
> Three deer? That s a tough way to thin the herd!
> - TheDane


And the cost of "reloading" the Harley is not cheap. Makes me drool for the old 12 gauge shotgun slugs of yesteryear… ;-)


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## KevCamp

What is the size of your skew block, and what is the spacing of the dowels?


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## HorizontalMike

> What is the size of your skew block, and what is the spacing of the dowels?
> - KevCamp


The skew block is 4" wide (same as sanding belt). Spacing the dowels, I just use the handle on my cutters to set the distance. Nothing fancy…


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## KevCamp

I finished my sharpener conversion, yesterday. I've got a few nicks to show how sharp this will get my turning tools. However, I guess I will be free handing some. There is no way, so far, that I can use the Tru-Grind to sharpen my spindle gouge. I've tried everything I can and it never lines up the profile. To get it to a high enough angle, the tool holder is in the way, and it will be ground, rather than the gouge.


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## HorizontalMike

> I finished my sharpener conversion, yesterday. I ve got a few nicks to show how sharp this will get my turning tools. However, I guess I will be free handing some. There is no way, so far, that I can use the Tru-Grind to sharpen my spindle gouge. I ve tried everything I can and it never lines up the profile. To get it to a high enough angle, the tool holder is in the way, and it will be ground, rather than the gouge.
> - KevCamp


Scroll down on the OEM post and find this part. Notice that the added platform/block is under the sanding platform bracket. I had to "adjust" where the correct holes should be drilled in order to get the Tru-Grind to work correctly. Sorry, but it seems to be a trial and error adjustment procedure, in combination with the angle of the Tru-Grind and how far you put the cutter into the Tru-Grind holder.

"...Here is where I really diverged from the American WoodTurner article and went with an idea I got from Captain Eddie Castelin . Instead of using the spare HF parts to mount a vertical rod to hold your gouge jig/guide, I decided to use Capt. Eddies suggestion to extend the stock sanding guide and use it to hold the gouge jig…." V…Below this… V


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## Ocelot

Hey Mike,

I axed on another thread but thought I would try this one too.

My sander won't run with the belt twisted - cause the belt rubs where it crosses itself. Is there some trick to keeping this from happening?

Thanks,
-Paul


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## KevCamp

Paul, I recently did the conversion. I had to twist my motor that direction a little bit to get the belt on. I loosened the bolts, twisted it as far that way as I could, and tightened it down. I remembered reading, in this thread, or some other, that the twist helps keep the belt from rubbing too much against itself.


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## Ocelot

Thanks Kev. I think I've tried that, but still the belt is tight against itself in the middle - and the motor won't start. In the normal direction, the motor runs fine.

I'll try some more.

If somebody could post a photo of the belt and the motor mounts - or even better several photos, it might help. 40 years ago, when I was in high school, I took the "National Engineering Aptitude Search" test - and scored in the 99th percentile in "mechanical comprehension", but I fear I've slipped a little.

-Paul


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## KevCamp

Try giving it a little help when starting, by pushing the sanding belt up. I had to do that, like the first 3 times. Now, it starts right up, and runs great.


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## Ocelot

I'll go try that right now!


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## Ocelot

OK, so I got the sander to run with the belt twisted, but I can't get it to track. I was able to adjust the tracking with the sanding belt moving down but with it moving up, there is not enough range in the tracking adjuster to get it centered. Interesting. I wonder if it is just that sanding belt. I'll try another.

So, thanks Kev for giving me a push. 

-Paul


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## HorizontalMike

Paul,
The upper sanding belt wheel is arched up ever so little in order to allow for the tracking adjustment you are talking about. Yeah, try another belt.

;-)
And just to eliminate any possibilities of brain farts… you did make sure the belt tension-er is engaged, right?


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## Ocelot

Yeah, tensioner is tight.

Tracking does adjust well running in the normal direction, but not in reverse. I'll figure it out. That's just the sanding belt that came with it. I have 180, 320 and 600 grit belts I bought, so I'll try one of those. I think I may have to adjust the tracking adjuster to give it more range.

One thing that is strange… the cylinders that the sanding belt runs on seem to be.. cylindrical.

I would think they would be crowned in the middle like a bandsaw wheel is.

I was thinking about adding a crown to one of them using tape.

-Paul


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## HorizontalMike

FWIW, I have never really needed anything greater than the 180 grit for sharpening irons. And like you, I have all the finer grits x10. These belts seem to last forever…


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## Karda

I finally got the sander, know all I got to do is figure out how to assemble it, the instruction don't say or show much. ca't find out how to set it in the vertical position


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## HorizontalMike

> I finally got the sander, know all I got to do is figure out how to assemble it, the instruction don t say or show much. ca t find out how to set it in the vertical position
> - Karda


Karda,
Adjust this bolt/nut:


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## Octavius

Hi folks,
My old Delta Benchtop sander has a toothed belt (like in a modern timing belt), rather than a regular V belt like in the HF model. Would it be likely I could twist this in a figure 8? Kinda doubt it somehow but thought I'd ask first before I actually tried it and hit the start button.
Cheers


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## HorizontalMike

> Hi folks,
> My old Delta Benchtop sander has a toothed belt (like in a modern timing belt), rather than a regular V belt like in the HF model. Would it be likely I could twist this in a figure 8? Kinda doubt it somehow but thought I d ask first before I actually tried it and hit the start button.
> Cheers
> - Octavius


My spare belts cost roughly ~$5. so I would suggest you try it and keep us posted. FWIW, I bought two spare belts when converting this one, yet I have not had the FIRST belt fail yet. The way I look at it, you won't be out any serious $$$ regardless.


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## Octavius

Mike,
Thanks for the reply (and also for the great article).
I'll give it a shot and report back.
Cheers!


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## Octavius

OK, the original belt, when twisted into a figure 8, won't fit so I've ordered a belt 1" longer.
Shipping might take a week but I'll let you know what happens when it arrives.
Cheers!


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## HorizontalMike

> OK, the original belt, when twisted into a figure 8, won t fit so I ve ordered a belt 1" longer.
> Shipping might take a week but I ll let you know what happens when it arrives.
> Cheers!
> - Octavius


I would also suggest buying a "smooth" V-belt and then check to see if that works, as well.

CORRECT REPLACEMENT BELT: # 3L220 V-belt that is 3/8in wide x 22in loop. I found this in a hardware store and think it is actually a lawn mower belt. Looks like it is now a bit over $9.
https://www.amazon.com/GATES-CORPORATION-3L220-22x3-Belt/dp/B000BQKHHY


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## Octavius

Mike,
Thanks for the info.
Don't think a regular belt would work on this old (Made in Taiwan) Delta - it has a flat, toothed belt and the (plastic) pulleys are toothed.
Got my doubts about the longer belt working - looks to me like the friction of the figure 8 loop is going to rub off the teeth, ha! But it's worth $5 if it saves me buying a HF product 
Cheers!


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## HorizontalMike

Yeah, looks like you would need to actually change pulleys (convert) to make your Delta work as I describe. Keep us posted!


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## Octavius

Just a quick update - I have not had much shop time.
The 1" longer, timing belt arrived and fits great when folded into a figure 8. The sanding belt on my Delta sander now turns in the preferred direction, ie upwards.
If and when the timing belt breaks I'll change pulleys, as recommended by Mike.
Now to make a jig to hold the chisels, etc.
Cheers


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## HorizontalMike

> Just a quick update - I have not had much shop time.
> The 1" longer, timing belt arrived and fits great when folded into a figure 8. The sanding belt on my Delta sander now turns in the preferred direction, ie upwards.
> If and when the timing belt breaks I ll change pulleys, as recommended by Mike.
> Now to make a jig to hold the chisels, etc.
> Cheers
> - Octavius


Octavius,
Great! This is good to know for Delta sander owners!

How about posting the Delta model number, the preferred belt size & length, and an image. That might make it easier for people to stumble over/find this alternative Delta sander setup… A good thing


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## blueridge

I finally decided to sign up for this forum today because this thread helped understand the mechanics of this sander me out a ton. Thanks for sharing! I bought one of these today and will primarily use it for sharpening wood turning tools and shaping wood handles.

Btw the shaft connected to the disc sander on the side is actually an M10 and its tapered from the pulley shaft which is an odd M11 instead of a 7/16. I found an arbor mandrel on ebay which bites onto a smooth shaft and is threaded m10 on the other end, the male end will thread onto an m10 bored and threaded jacobs chuck, all in about $10 via ebay, gotta wait on the big boat from China though.

Something else I am considering is mounting everything on a 14×14 wood platform and reversing the motor instead of cris crossing the belt. Not 100% sure on that yet.


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## blueridge

FYI here is an updated link to the build from American Woodturner http://tcturning.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/DIYBeltSharpeningSystem_Dec2012_AAW_Journal.pdf


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## Ocelot

Nice to meet you blueridge. I've partly built this thing a while ago and need to finish mine also. Reversing the motor direction electrically seems the best path. Info has been posted on how to do that - complete with wire colors. Just pull the end off the motor and find two particular wires and swap them as I recall. I haven't done it yet. I recommend Wago 221 connectors instead of wire nuts if you do it. That's what I plan to do.

-Paul


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## HorizontalMike

Thanks guys! Always good to hear about further successes and innovations. Ocelot has a great idea about electrically re-wiring vs the belt flip, however, I have not had an issue with the belt flip for at least the past 5-years, so IMO it is not really an issue other than for Internet critiques and such. All are entitled to their opinions…

The BIGGEST point is to ENJOY your improved ability to sharpen THANGS…!


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## Ocelot

5 years running is a good stat!

Mine would not start the first time with the crossed belt, but I did get it to run that way after fiddling with it a bit. I still want to reverse the motor. The university said I was an electrical engineer, so I ought at least to do something like that now and then at home.


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