# Update, With a Question - Hanging Holes.... What's the Tragedy?



## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I posted this the other day, and now I have a question for you Stanley plane-typing gurus:

I pegged this as a type 6 initially. The frog receiver, and the construction of the lateral adjustment lever definitely match with a type 6, and not a type 5. However, all the dating sources I usually refer to state that the threading of the adjustment wheel was changed to left-hand on the type 6, and this one definitely has the older right-hand threading.

I know it's fairly common to see mismatched parts on an old plane, but I've never seen a single piece (the frog, in this case) that seems to contradict the type studies.

Any thoughts?

Type 5 lateral adjustment lever:









Type 6 and later lateral adjustment lever:









Here is the latest I just picked up from the post office:










It's a sweet little No.5, which, at first glance, appears to be a type 6 (1888-1892). It looks ugly as heck right now, but there is really not a thing wrong with it. Trust me, it will clean up beautifully. I was the only bidder, at a grand total of $20 with FREE shipping.

I see lesser quality #5's selling all the time in the $30-$40 plus shipping range, but I reckon the price on this one was killed by the dreaded hanging hole drilled in the sole. I see this all the time. Plane buyers seem to avoid these like the plague. Am I missing something? I realize any alteration hurts the value of a real collectible, but an old #5 is about as rare as a flea on a dog. So is there some practical reason for staying away from these that I'm missing?


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

It wouldnt bother me in the slightest. Shes a user not a trophy, like ya said #5's are a dime a dozen.


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## stonedlion (Jan 12, 2011)

I think it's a case of wanting a "complete" or "undamaged" specimen.

It reminds me of many years ago when I worked in a retail computer store - a customer came in one day and wanted to see one of those new fangled portable inkjet printers. We didn't have one on display, so I opened a new unit in the box and set it up and demo'd it for him. He wanted to buy one, just not THAT one, because it wasn't new in the box any more.

A hang hole wouldn't bother me, because I know it wouldn't affect performance, assuming everything else was in good shape.


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## longgone (May 5, 2009)

Charlie…It seems practical to have a hole there for hanging it on the wall….but I am not in to the collectors mentality of nothing can be altered. I buy tools to use them…not display them.
Some woodworkers also believe that the hole will allow shavings to shoot up through it and hit you in the face. Ha!


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## BrandonW (Apr 27, 2010)

I'll admit, I don't care for the hanging holes, but that wouldn't stop me from bidding on a plane with one. I had one plane (Stanley 40 Scrub) with two hanging holes, but I just filled them in with epoxy and painted the top of the sole black--didn't even notice the holes after that.


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## racerglen (Oct 15, 2010)

With you Brandon, got a couple myself, bit of metal repair epoxy, paint atop, and the grey stuff blends prety well on the busness side.
#5 C and a 101 drilled through the finger rest.


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

my #7 has 2 holes, either hanging holes, or make shift jointer fence holes. They don't bother me at all… I'm using it, after all… if I were THAT worried about the value being decreased because of the holes, I probably wouldn't be using it in the first place…


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## LittlePaw (Dec 21, 2009)

That's quite a find, Charlie. I can't wait to see it after you're done cleaning it up!


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

just be glad everybody else hates holes ;-) hate to have to pay double for it, eh?


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

Hmmm… TopamaxSurvivor, you've got a point there…

I'd like to revise my answer to being: "Booo hanging holes! They're the worst thing ever, the plane doesn't work at all no matter how much tuning you put into them if they have hanging holes… everyone should avoid them at all cost, and shouldn't ever buy one…" ;-)


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## AKSteve (Feb 4, 2012)

I can't understand the hole? why hang it like that when you have a perfectly good knob on the front to put a leather strap around? I guess that's why I am the amateur  
And how can you tell what the number is? I can't tell anything except it's a pretty good looking planer! LOL.


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

wow, so thy dont buy them just because of that little hanging hole, gee, i guess im going to start watching for a few of these, well worth 20 bucks…i dont need a whole wall of planes but i do want to have the ones necessary for doing the work…nice plane charlie…i already know you know how to clean them up…so i look forward to seeing this one restored..grizz


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Steve, I have never seen anything hanging on anything but nails or pegs when I have been in old shops. When that plane was in use, people didn't have garbage; everything was reused. Leather was probably saved for shoe and harness repair.


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## Gregn (Mar 26, 2010)

Hanging hole? You sure that isn't a hole for an aux. handle? LOL
I have a block plane with a piece broke off the body, works fine, paid only 50 cents for it.
Did good if ya ask me.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

That hole might be where you mount your light when you want to do some midnight planing without anyone knowing that you are in the shop.


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## whitewulf (May 11, 2010)

Just cut it off, "Unique Variation"...........LoL


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## stevepeterson (Dec 17, 2009)

I see nothing wrong with hanging holes on an old plane. I am even guilty of drilling a couple of holes myself. I would never drill a hole in a true collectible, but there is nothing wrong with a hole in a workhorse plane.


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

For the right price, I don't see any issue with a "hanging hole." Now, if that price is the same as a "pristine" example, there is no way I'd buy it.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I'm not sure its really the hanging holes Charlie, but just the absolute uncertainty of ebay. Either way you won on this one. That's a sweet #5.


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## DaddyZ (Jan 28, 2010)

Holes shouldn't bother most of us, because we do our own refurbishing, that in itself is changing the "originality" of the Plane…..


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## fernandoindia (May 5, 2010)

Hi CHarlie, you either hang it, or 
you´ll need a new case for storing your increasing and never ending plane collection


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

it works out well for cheapskates like me. Maybe its way I actually won the bid on my 608. So I put the holes to use.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I just had a thought…. maybe it's a dust port and I can hook it up to the shop vac!


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

have you looked in it? Maybe its one of those peep holes with the dancing girls in it!


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Maybe it is to preview the finish so you won't go into shock seeing the whole width at once if there is a problem?


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## Johnnyblot (Mar 2, 2012)

I'd buy it! And pay for the shipping to the UK. ( and I'm as tight as a duck's arse).

Cheers
John


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Its for woodworkers with a flair for Flavor Flav.


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## Nicky (Mar 13, 2007)

That plane will cleanup nice.

From a collectors perspective, any modification will reduce the value .

From a woodworkers perspective it will add value to your collection and continue to do what it was made to do.

I always seem to miss these little gems.


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## blackcherry (Dec 7, 2007)

Charlie you should be ashamed of yourself for allowing this one to hang in your shop, your status here is of one who has impeccable standards so please forward ASAP…nice find my friend it should clean up rather nicely…BC


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## lunn (Jan 30, 2012)

Question?? I'm new at planes but started picking up a few. I saw a pristeen #5 at a flea mkt. for $20 Just said stanley not stanley bailey the Differnce ?? Should i have bought it?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

if it just said stanley, its probably one of the cheaper lines like the four square that Stanley put out. Maybe like this one? http://lumberjocks.com/topics/40357

$20 may be ok if its in pristine shape. I would probably wait for a Stanley/Bailey or offered $10.


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## ITnerd (Apr 14, 2011)

I agree with Don, the only reason I've been able to snag any bedrocks at a reasonable price is due to hang holes or cosmetic defects; I think I have them in 2 or 3 of my bench planes. Does not impact its use in the slightest. Congrats on a nice find, let us know how it cleans up!


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## LeeBarker (Aug 6, 2010)

I think it's a rare prototype of the new line of "convenience planes" that Stanley ran up the flagpole many years ago.

Value: unknown. Only two were made. But if you had two bidders who were sincerely interested, you'd find out.

Kindly,

Lee


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## Boomr99 (Jul 1, 2009)

I was able to snag a rather uncommon Bedrock 605 1/2 with a hang hole in the same location. It's a FANTASTIC plane and the hole doesn't bother me in the slightest.


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## Beginningwoodworker (May 5, 2008)

Nice plane, Charlie!


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I'm bumping this up to the top to get some thoughts on my question.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Charlie, I assume your talking about the frog, left handed thread question?? The left handed thread came about in type 7 i believe, but in 1892, it was possible to have either.

My source is the mega chart. I've printed it and hung it on my shop wall. http://primeshop.com/access/woodwork/stanleyplane/


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Interesting, Don. The two sources I usually go to (here & here) , both state that the left hand thread was introduced on the type 6 in 1888.

I guess none of this stuff is written in stone.


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## hhhopks (Nov 22, 2011)

I thought the holes are like stars for the military. It is a badge of honor. The more you have the more respect we should all give to it.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

They also say the 2 patent dated bases are type 9 or 10, the chart puts them up to 12, and I've had a few with the frog adjuster, so I tend to trust the chart more, but even then it can be difficult.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

ok Charlie, I have one for you. A Bailey #5. 3 patent dates, small brass iron adjustment wheel, low knob, BAILEY stamped in front of the knob. This usually means type 11, 100% of the time, BUT no frog adjustment screw screw on this one.

Thoughts?


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Don, my best guess is you've got a type 11 body with a non-original type 9 frog.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

There's no hole in the base


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

A Type 9 frog would not have the hole right? According to my sources, the frog adjustment screw came in with type 10.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Correct, but there is not a hole in the base


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

back in the day when people actually used these planes to make a living

they didnt think about the tool being a "collectors" wall art

it was merely an end to a means and objectivity ruled over emotion

having a hole drilled into the sole was an efficient means to hang ones planes in a sequence that was both efficient and orderly.

the end.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Kinda like dovetails were nothing more than a strong, reliable joint…. not an artsy-fartsy sign of "fine craftsmanship".


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

And everybody knows your name… and they're always glad you came.

Regardless of their previous function or efficiency-boosting ability, I still don't want a hole drilled in my planes. It's just a source for a crack due to some guy doing it incorrectly. So, usually if I can't see it in person, I won't buy it.

If you don't mind the small risk or the hole, buy them and enjoy.


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## whitewulf (May 11, 2010)

No biggie, I will probably never own another Metal plane!


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