# Newby TS kickback question



## TM44 (Aug 5, 2014)

Hey folks -

This is my first post on this site. hope I have this in the right forum.

A recently bought a Dewalt 7491RS table saw. I don't have space for a dedicated woodshop, so my garage has to pull double-duty. Hence the need for a portable, fold-up saw like the 7491. I also installed an Irwin Marples 50T combo blade after reading reviews on this site.

I have watched quite a few safety videos on Youtube regarding kickback. I even bought a Woodworker's Safety Push Stick to avoid loosing a finger.

I still have all my fingers, but I am missing a tail light on my Subaru. I was ripping 3/4" off of a 4 ft. shelf, and the cut-off piece launched like Hell-Fire missile and took out my tail light. I had to do this to 5 shelves, and 2 of the 5 resulted in a high-velocity projectile.

I was EXTREMELY careful not to pinch the wood, and the riving knife was in place. How can I avoid this happening again??


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Was the 3/4" cutoff between the blade and the fence?


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

> Was the 3/4" cutoff between the blade and the fence?
> 
> - TheDane


I assume this is what you were doing. You need to have your push stick pushing on the piece that is between the blade and the fence. Sometimes that gets a little sketchy with narrow pieces. I have one push stick that is narrower than the other. If I need something really thin I will usually use a piece of 1/4 plywood for a push stick. You also need to be careful about the other piece that is on the left side of the blade. I will usually use the piece that I just cut and once it has cleared the blade, I will slide it to the left and push the off piece away from the blade. Then I reach to turn off the saw.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

Move your fence and make the 3/4" piece to the outside.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

If your waste piece was between the fence and blade, it can definitely get pinched and launch. If you cut so that your keeper piece is between the fence and blade, it allows you to control that, and the only way for the cutoff to launch is if it gets caught on the back of the blade, which is unlikely for a long piece.


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

That push stick looks like it's about 3/4" thick, so I assume you had the blade guard removed to make such a narrow cut? Correct?
First suspect would be the riving knife wasn't/isn't set up properly(more than likely too low).

A good, solid, properly set riving knife makes it very difficult(nearly impossible) to launch a piece of wood on either side of the blade, keeper or cutoff.


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## camps764 (Dec 9, 2011)

Kickback is some scary sh*t. I got blasted in the chest by a piece kicking back and it felt like a horse kicked me. I thought for sure I had broken ribs.

Will be interested to hear if you had your 3/4 waste on the fence side of the cut like others have stated.


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## TM44 (Aug 5, 2014)

Thanks for the responses….

1) yes, the 3/4" piece was between the blade and fence. I thought about moving the fence wider, but the fence on the Dewalt is so handy and accurate. I just dialed in 3/4" and starting cutting. But I thought that if I did have a kickback, I would rather have it be 3/4 piece and not a 10 3/4 inch piece. Based on comments here, I guess that is not the case. I expected the waste piece to kick up and back. This just launched straight back. Not what I was expecting.

2) Yes, I had the guard off earlier and failed to put it back on. I did have the riving knife in place.

3) riving knife adjustment…good point. I will look into that.

I've been lurking on this site for a while - lots of good information! Thanks again!

On another note…I've been looking at table saws for years. SO glad I finally broke down and bought one.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Welcome to LJs. I've been here for a little over a year. It's a great place to learn stuff and make woodworker friends.
I've been doing carpentry for about 25 years, but woodworking only for about 13 years. I've learned many new things just in the year I've been on here. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Also you can search and see what others have asked and said.


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## Crank50 (Jan 31, 2014)

I know this dilemma has been resolved, but like to offer one more suggestion.

The "Gripper" push block is designed to straddle the blade and control both pieces of material to help avoid exactly this kind of episode. Especially when making narrow cuts with the blade guard removed.

I don't one yet, but plan to get a set as soon as I can.


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## b67mack (Jul 7, 2014)

Do you have an "outfeed" table rigged so you can push your 3/4 pcs past and thru the blade? Once clear there is no danger of kick back and you can repeat your cut.


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## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

Do a search on thin rip jig. Easy to make. If you wanted to repeatedly cut 3/4" strips off of your workpiece(s), without having to remeasure when you move the fence, this would work for you.


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

I've never had a problem with "projectiles". It sounds like there are a few variables that are working against you, but the big one you mentioned is alignment. I have the same saw and had to do some tweaking of the saw blade, riving knife, and fence alignment. Second is infeed and outfeed for larger pieces.


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

Question: what are you cutting? Is it solid wood or a man-made material (plywood/mdf/particleboard)?


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## TM44 (Aug 5, 2014)

> Do you have an "outfeed" table rigged so you can push your 3/4 pcs past and thru the blade? Once clear there is no danger of kick back and you can repeat your cut.
> 
> - b67mack


no, I don't have an outfeed table. it seems like good idea though.


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## TM44 (Aug 5, 2014)

> Question: what are you cutting? Is it solid wood or a man-made material (plywood/mdf/particleboard)?
> 
> - paxorion


i was cutting a piece of pine 1×12 from Lowes. I think they called it "high quality/Premium" pine, or something like that. Few knots than the cheapest pine they sell.


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

Ok, I'm going to jump in here. A couple of causes plausable. Since the wood you mentioned, I'm going to go with my first thought when I read your first post. The wood went through the blade and once past the blade the pieces closed and pinched the blade. This is the most common form of that. The other one is passing the piece through where the length is shorter than the width of the piece. This causes bad kickback.

Do you have the splitter in? That's a critical piece of equipment. I'd also recommend the griprrr from microjig. Great tool I use two of them.

Care full and be thankful you were standing safely to the side. An unfortunate side issue with a kickback is it is not that uncommon for that to pull your fingers into the blade.

Good luck and stay safe!


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

table saw safety teaches us to never put your fingers past the front edge of the saw blade. Second you always maintain control of the piece you are removing. In this case it is the piece between the blade and the fence. You push it past the back of the blade with a push stick. never put your fingers in this area unless the board in there is more than 4 inches wide. 4 inches is considered narrow lumber and a push stick is required for all narrow lumber. Can you tell us how the board bound up and cause the kick back?


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

I think others have put in a lot of ideas as to what may have happened. Ultimately you have experienced kickback from the blade catching the wood at the trailing end of the cut. To summarize the culprits, it can be:

Misalignment - Check your alignment…
Reaction wood (since it's solid wood, the wood could have pinches in at the end of the cut) - Make sure your splitter/riving knife is IN and setup to be in alignment with your blade. It helps but isn't going to solve your problem all the time.
Technique - I didn't see anyone mention this but I thought I'd add it as a theory as to what may be happening. Remember when feeding a board in for a rip cut, you want to exert 3 directions of pressure; (a) down on the table (b) into the fence and ( c ) towards the blade. Stand to the left and not to the right, so that your left hand can apply (a) downward and (b) inward (to the rip fence) pressure, while your right hand applies ( c ) forward pressure to feed the work into the blade. I recently taught table saw basics to a guy who had developed a bad habit of standing to the right when feeding the work through making it really hard to feed work (b) into the fence.


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

> table saw safety teaches us to never put your fingers past the front edge of the saw blade. Second you always maintain control of the piece you are removing. In this case it is the piece between the blade and the fence. You push it past the back of the blade with a push stick. never put your fingers in this area unless the board in there is more than 4 inches wide. 4 inches is considered narrow lumber and a push stick is required for all narrow lumber. Can you tell us how the board bound up and cause the kick back?
> 
> - Grandpa


And what Grandpa said about push sticks. Some designs are better at applying the different types of pressure. What is included with the saw is good for ( c ) forward, but not (a) downward - can cause the work to pivot up and (b) inward to the fence. I prefer a push shoe for most rips, as well as the MicroJig Grr Rippers.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

I guess what I use would be called a rip shoe. Some people don't like them but I have used one for over 50 years and have become accustomed to them. I can't work without one near me. I will say I have seen people get a full sheet of plywood on a big Powermatic in the school shop and it will get tossed around. Adults are the worst. They will do things that young people won't do when it comes to power tools. The main thing to remember is you are trying to control the piece next to the fence. The wood that is (normally left of the blade) on the open table won't bind and kick out. The wood between the fence and the blade is the problem so that is what you push down, right and back on. I use my saw with no splitter, no riving knife or anything. Just a blade through the table and a fence. I am not suggesting you should do this but I am saying I don't get kickback


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I subscribe to Grandpa's sawing methods, as I do the same. I am a great grandpa with over 60 years woodworking experience. I don't use guards, splitters or a riving knife. I can't recall ever having a kickback. I rip wood as narrow as 1/8" all the time. The only safety device I use is a push stick. They are considered expendable, as they get cut up when ripping narrow stock. I am an advocate of jigs and will spend hours making one for a special cutting job involving multiple pieces. The important thing is to approach your saw with caution, keep focused on the job at hand, make sure the saw is set up correctly, your fence is absolutely parallel to the blade, stand at the left side of the blade (assuming the fence is on the right). I keep the blade quite high above the wood. This tends to reduce kickback. The cutting force is more downward toward the table when the blade is high. When the blade is set low, the cutting force is more parallel to the table.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Best advice I can offer is find a push-stick you like (and are comfortable with) and use it.

About a year ago, Allan Little (AKA WoodMan) did a 2 part series on YouTube that I think is worth watching:


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## GregD (Oct 24, 2009)

When using the rip fence you absolutely, positively must at all times control the piece between the blade and the fence until that piece is clear of the blade.

I am a huge fan of Grrippers - one for each hand. They are expensive. They can be configured to provide excellent control on both sides of the cut line both fore and aft of the blade when ripping. They work best if the table top is rust-free and lubricated.

When there is sufficient space between the blade and the rip fence conventional push blocks work just as well. Unless my table top is getting sticky I usually feel more comfortable using a pair of push blocks or Grrippers even for wide rips; my dry dusty fingertips don't grip the wood as well.

I am not a fan of push sticks. Using 1 push stick provides almost no control on the end of the work piece past the blade - the end that is most likely to get caught by the back side of the saw blade which will then blast the work piece at your face or chest.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Here's a push stick./shoe that I use. I made a pile of these out of plywood scraps a few years ago … when they get chewed up I either cut them down a bit or toss them.








These are 14 inches long … the handles are about 6 inches high. The notch in the front allows me to use them as a conventional push stick … most of the time I use them like a shoe to give me downward leverage on the stock.


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## OldRocker (May 15, 2014)

It seems that every time I try to do a cross-cut with the rip fence I have problems. Maybe next time you could try a circular saw and a straight edge. One thing that could of helped you would be using the Grrriper (however you want to spell it). I use mine a lot and would love to have another. Maybe one day . . . . . when I win the lotto - lots of other things I need too.

The great thing that came out of your accident is all these helpful comments. You just can't beat knowledge!


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## TM44 (Aug 5, 2014)

> Best advice I can offer is find a push-stick you like (and are comfortable with) and use it.
> 
> About a year ago, Allan Little (AKA WoodMan) did a 2 part series on YouTube that I think is worth watching:
> 
> ...


I watched that vid….hmm….I don't seem to have any Mahogany lying around to make a push stick…LOL

FYI - was using this pushstik Woodworker's Safety Push Stick


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

> FYI - was using this pushstik Woodworker s Safety Push Stick
> 
> - TM44


That's a good push stick, more shoe style which would support both downward and forward pressure. I'd be really curious to know what the cause of repeated kickback is…alignment, technique, or something else. Hope you'll have a chance to report back on your findings. Maybe a quick video for us to review would help the LJ community better guide you.

And stay safe!


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## Pimzedd (Jan 22, 2007)

Several have mentioned alignment so let me second that thought. Make sure your rip fence is parallel to the saw blade.

I have a table saw that is over 60 years old. The fence will not clamp parallel except by accident. When ripping, I have to check the measurement to the miter guage slot at the front and back to make sure they are the same. Some say the measurement on the out feed side (back side) should be slightly (a few thousandths) larger that the infeed side. I usually just go for the same.

Also, keep you eyes focused on the ede of the board and the fence. Make sure the wood does not drift away from the fence.

Good luck and keep coming back here. It is the best woodworking site I have found.

From a retired shop teacher.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

> The fence will not clamp parallel except by accident.


So … You're the one that bought my old table saw!


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## Pimzedd (Jan 22, 2007)

Gerry, a guy owed me $50 in 1980. He would not pay me so I said give me that table saw setting in the corner and he said OK. Manual says it was printed in 1949. Been using it ever since.


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## Tootles (Jul 21, 2011)

So far, nobody has mentioned a featherboard. I have this one and it works a treat to hold the wood against the fence.

I also remember some time ago here on LJs there was someone who would regularly sing the praises of devices called board buddies. I've never used them but have occasionally thought they could be useful. I see these were reviewed in LJs here.


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

For the op, Toodles suggested a good featherboard option, but not for your saw. Magswitch products only work with ferrous top tools, such as cast iron top table saws. The Dewalt has an aluminum top.


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

BTW TM44, are you still around?


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## NoThanks (Mar 19, 2014)

> FYI - was using this pushstik Woodworker s Safety Push Stick
> 
> - TM44


What pc were you pushing with it? 
The pc between the blade and the fence, or the fall off pc to the left of the blade?

If you were pushing the pc between the fence and the blade, 
and you push the pc all the way through and past the blade I don't see how you would get kickback.


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## Tootles (Jul 21, 2011)

Well spotted paxorion. Not something I would have known about the top being aluminium, so it is good that someone else does.

There are other options of course. It is possible to buy featherboards that are held in place using the mitre track. What's more, they are often cheaper too!


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

1- "I was ripping 3/4" off of a 4 ft. shelf." Nothing wrong here.

2 - " yes, the 3/4" piece was between the blade and fence" Problem solved. You were cutting exactly opposite of what common sense dictates.

3- "But I thought that if I did have a kickback, I would rather have it be 3/4 piece and not a 10 3/4 inch piece". See number 2

3 - " I think they called it "high quality/Premium" pine". 
Don't believe it. At best, it's about what I'd call #2 pine.

4 - "was using this pushstik Woodworker's Safety Push Stick"'...... 
At least you had the forthought to use a push stick. I don't recall in your replies whether you indicated where you had the push stick, but it sounds like you had it on the wrong piece of wood.

I've used an expendable shoe type push stick for about 40 years operaring my cabinet shop. Wife thought she was being nice about 5 years ago and bought that particular stick. I couldn't use it because my wrist would cramp immediately. Went back to the shoe type that I've been using.

BTW, did you have to check your shorts after that kick back? If you didn't, it didn't scare you enough to stop and rethink what you just did. I'm happy to see you question your issue, and I hope you gained a lot of respect for your equipment. 
You've also gotten some very good advice from some of these guys here. ............ Jerry (in Tucson)


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

I'm also a fan of "consumable" shoe style pushers. The nice thing is that on narrow cuts the shoe covers the part of the blade that is above the wood. Couldn't be safer …...... BUT

I can't believe no one has suggested a *spacer block*. When you set the fence, put a spacer like a piece of 3/4" plywood between the fence and the piece. Once the fence is set, move the spacer back to the near end of the fence and clamp it there. Put your shelf against your miter gauge and slide it tight against the spacer. As you advance the piece, hold it tight to the miter gauge. It won't be able to jam because there will be a 3/4" gap between the end of it and the fence.

I have a Unifence which will slide back toward me. They designed it that way for just these cuts but a spacer block will keep you safe just as well (even if your fence is out of alignment).


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## Pimzedd (Jan 22, 2007)

Paul, I think he was cutting off the long side, not the end. See post #7. Or am I confused.

Of course I have been confused before but only once or twice (each day).


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

That would be why no one mentioned it all right. I went from "3/4" off a four foot shelf." 
My bad.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

I thought the problem was that he was using the push stick on the wrong piece, like he had the push stick on the outside piece and not the piece between the fence and blade. When the cut finished he kept pushing, but the small piece between blade and fence launched.


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