# Rigid R4512 vs Delta 36-725



## mifon (Sep 27, 2014)

If you search past posts on the Rigid R4512, you'll find literally hundreds of posts describing a common problem in this saw with alignment and trunion shift. These problems seem to be consistent for the Rigid saw. There are suggestions for all kind of "fixes" or "make-do's" to make the problems found in this saw tolerable. From what I can tell, these problems were evident in earlier versions of the saw and still appear in the current version offered for sale at HD.

The Delta 36-725 is priced in the neighborhood and appears to be designed to market to the same woodworking customer. The reviews on the 36-725 (including those here on LJ) seem to be very good with no inherent or consistent problems (as with the Rigid).

I'm wondering why the 36-725 is not a more popular purchase?? From what I've seen in the reviews, the 36-725 performs like it's supposed to right out of the box. And yet, there seem to be far more who have purchased the Rigid hoping for different results, but finding the same inherent problems (or at least more is said here and elsewhere by the Rigid buyers). Comparatively speaking, there is very little said about the performance of the 36-725 (is this "No news is good news?").

The price of these two saws is attractive to me. I am starting from scratch and having to purchase everything to equip my shop. I could purchase more expensive saws. But, that would limit the other purchases I want to make to equip the shop. I have diligently watched CL for table saws over the past 6 months and have found nothing I would consider. I'm leaning to purchasing a new table saw and trying to get the other machines to equip my shop through the used market.

So, what suggestions do you have for me? Any comments on the Delta 36-725, both good and bad, would be appreciated. Are my assumptions about the Rigid saw wrong? Are there other saws that I should consider?

I've been "lurking" here on LJ for about a year and really appreciate the wealth of knowledge here and that you are willing to share it with newcomers like me. So, I'll say thanks in advance for your comments and help….........


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

I believe it's because the 4512 has been around for a little while and the delta is relatively new compared to it.


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## Dan658 (Dec 3, 2014)

That's a tough one. As a happy R4512 owner (we do exist), I might lean more towards the Delta if I were in your shoes. I don't recall seeing the Delta when I was looking at upgrading my saw to the R4512. It could be because of how new it is or because the closest store that sells it is about $170 worth of ferry tickets away + gas, so I might not have been looking out that far.

I only quickly scanned over some of the reviews and they seem to be pretty typical and not sure how I'd trust those. Most product reviews seem to be written on day one and often blame operator error on the product or company. I have a hard time trusting the average consumer. This may just be my own issue. However, the review of that saw on this site seems a little more detailed and I'd be more inclined to base my decision on that one over the box store reviews.

While I have a good R4512 with no alignment issues, the included fence is awful in my opinion. I only paid $499 for it, so I can't really complain too much. But, if I had to do it over and this Delta were sold locally, I might lean towards the Delta just because of their fence. On the less/not important at all side, it's also a good looking saw.

I'm assuming you would be purchasing this from Lowes? Check what their return policy is. It might be worth giving it a shot if you can return it.


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## WhyMe (Feb 15, 2014)

The Delta came out just over a year ago, whereas the Rigid has been out for several years. I've had my Delta 36-725 from when it first came out and have used it a lot. I had some initial setup issues with a couple of screw holes missing, but I was able to resolve the problem with Delta. So far I can't complain and am happy with the saw's performance. There are a couple of long review threads here on LJ about the 36-725, do a search.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

I think others have accurately answered your question about why the Delta isn't more popular….it's a lot newer. I also think folks have managed to get some better deals on the R4512, but they could be a false perception due to the length of time the R4512 has been out, and the larger numbers sold in that time. If I were purchasing a new saw in the $500-$600 range, I'd likely lean toward the Delta. If you get a good R4512, I'm sure they're a very serviceable saw. The trunnion issue aside (though it's tough to overlook), I like the fence better on the Delta, and the Delta hasn't had any glaring issues reported in the year that it's been out.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Ridgid has been selling contractor saws for more than a few years, since the early 2000's I think.


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## Dan658 (Dec 3, 2014)

> Ridgid has been selling contractor saws for more than a few years, since the early 2000 s I think.
> 
> - Rick M.


I think they specifically mean the R4512.


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## TRHeath (Jan 20, 2014)

I bought the Delta last fall. For some reason here, they dropped the price to $499 for about 2 weeks. It's the first table saw I've used that wasn't ultra cheap. The first thing I noticed were the lack of noise and vibration compared to the cheap saws I've used in the past. I love mine so far. I really like the fence system although it took a little more work to get the rails installed just right. I've had zero problems with it so far. The only negative I've run into so far is the lack of a zero clearance insert for it. There may be one available now but there wasn't when I bought it. I could make one of course but haven't really needed one yet. Most of my cuts have been on a crosscut sled so I haven't really needed it yet. I just read too many negative things about the Rigid so when they dropped the price on the Delta I jumped on it.


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## TRHeath (Jan 20, 2014)

I was curious so I checked Lowes website real quick. They do sell a zero clearance insert for that saw now.


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## CoachSchroeder (Jan 3, 2014)

Yeah, as others said, the R4512 has been around much longer so there is a bigger sample.

I started putting together my shop from basically scratch when I bought my 1st house in 2012. Made what I now realize was a mistake when I purchased the Ridgid contractor saw (R4513) which does pretty much exactly what it should. It took me about 3 months to outgrow it. I'm on CL every day looking, but I imagine I will eventually get a cabinet style saw from Grizzly or Baileigh. I regret not getting enough saw from the beginning.

Hope my experience helps you as you figure out your next step.


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## Garbanzolasvegas (Jan 15, 2015)

As a current owner and user of the R4512. Let me assure you all the nightmare stories about this toll are not only true they are not even exaggerated. The saw is a train wreck. STAY the "F" AWAY. Not only is the blade rise blade kick true your lucky if the balder is anywhere near Parallel with the miter slot.

And to day I found a new issue.

Trying to true up the rip fence to the miter slot and blade I striped out two of the 4 bolts used to hold the rip fence. After careful examination these used 6 millimeter tiny little bolts that used tiny till SQUARE nuts on the underside. Try and find 6 mm square nuts. I had to buy some steel stock, cut drill and tap my own replacements.

After more than a day of cursing whiskey drinking and praying it is still not calibrated correctly.

This damn saw is truly curse

Out of the box it is a complete train wreck!

I have been babying it for nearly a year and it is still a train wreck.

I have done everything in my power to warn everyone to stay the hell away from this nightmare of a tool!


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## MinnesotaMarty (Jan 25, 2015)

Mi, 
I too am in the market for a good quality - home shop table saw. I have had a pretty extensive shop in my other house where I had a separate building of 24'x36'. But, since my wife and I downsized to a smaller home on a city lot I now am like most other where a oversized garage serves at the shop. I have had Grizzly machines in that other shop that would not have fit if this current garage was empty. I have looked at the Ridgid saw and I just can't seem to see how it can cost what it does. To me a good table saw is $ about $1000. Plus, woodworking for more than 30 years I know the table saw is the most important tool you can own. Craigslist is a crap shoot. The only time you find something decent is when someone doesn't know what they have and you stumble on to it before anyone else. Good table saws hold their value when I sold my Grizzly I got 85% of new and the buyer drove 290 miles to buy it, because he knew what it was worth and the new imodel was priced 15% more. So, he saved 30% buying new . 
Good table saws are investments not throw away tools. 
Grizzly, Jet, Baileigh, Sawstop and comparable saws, IMO are good saws for about a grand.
Good luck on the search.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

*"I'm wondering why the 36-725 is not a more popular purchase?? From what I've seen in the reviews, the 36-725 performs like it's supposed to right out of the box. And yet, there seem to be far more who have purchased the Rigid hoping for different results, but finding the same inherent problems (or at least more is said here and elsewhere by the Rigid buyers)."*

The Rigid has been on the market for, what, 5+ yrs, and the Delta for ~1 yr. The sample size is vastly different, and must be accounted for in the analysis.


"Comparatively speaking, there is very little said about the performance of the 36-725 (is this "No news is good news?")."*

Yes, I believe "No news is good news?" is a good summary. The Delta would be my choice in that price range


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

Unlike Garbanzo, I have not had many problems at all with my R4512. Only problem was the C clip fell off the worm gear that raises the blade. After I fixed that myself with a better C clip, it has been pretty much faultless.
I bought mine before the price rise, when they would put it on sale occasionally for $400. Using my military discount of 10%, I scored mine for $360.

I've had no problems with my fence, save that I am hard on it and sometimes I do have to readjust it. I've never had a bolt or nut strip out on mine. I do make sure to take off the back plate and clean it out regularly, since the vacuum system is so far below the mechanism lots of sawdust will hang up in the mechanism. I simply put a couple of wing nuts on the back and about twice a month take it off and vacuum it out. I bought some zero clearance plates from Woodcraft, and overall, it has been a great saw. I think now it is slightly overpriced, but I like mine. I probably runs in my shop at least 3-4 days a week.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

I was actually looking to buy a Ridgid 4511, the one with the granite top, about 7 years ago.
Found they had been discontinued. couldn't fine one.
Happened into Sears and saw a 21833 Craftsman.
Nice looking saw, I could get it with an employee discount (my MIL's) for $459.
It even had a cast iron top which was the only thing I didn't like about the Ridgid 4511.
I got it. Then I had to go work outside the country for a couple of months in Mexico, Panama and Nicaragua.
I got the Craftsman saw set up and started using it by winter.
Never could get the blade to stay aligned with the miter slot.
Then later that year Home Depot started selling the Ridgid 4512.
I was amazed it looked just like my Craftsman 21833 except for the paint.
When I started hearing people tell about the alignment issues with the 4512 I knew exactly what they were talking about. My saw did the same thing.

My first thoughts were, Good, now that Home Depot and Ridgid were involved this problem would be fixed and I could get parts and fix mine the same way. NOT.

Home Depot has a "What, me worry?" attitude and Ridgid swears it in people's heads if they comment at all.

Absolutely, Run, Don't Walk Away from the Ridgid POS saw.


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## Dan658 (Dec 3, 2014)

> Home Depot has a "What, me worry?" attitude and Ridgid swears it in people s heads if they comment at all.
> 
> Absolutely, Run, Don t Walk Away from the Ridgid POS saw.
> 
> - crank49


Home Depot just sells the saw. Why would they have any say in what Ridgid does or doesn't do? Also, if Ridgid refuses to acknowledge bad trunnions, why have they made a Version II trunnion for that saw? Unless you've run into trunnion issues on the revised model, how can you fairly say they are all crap?


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

I have a retail store. You can bet that if a product I sell consistantly pisses off my customers I have plenty to say about it. And it will either be fixed or I will drop that supplier.
Of course, Home Depot can't really say much to Ridgid because they are probably in bed together.
I don't think it's just coincidence they are so well color cooridinated.

As for the new trunnion II. I don't give a damn if they have come out with a trunnion better than a Unisaw. What about the thousands of customers they just left out in the cold. You ever hear of anyone getting a recall or offer to fix their existing saw? Even though it is a safety concern?


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## Dan658 (Dec 3, 2014)

> I have a retail store. You can bet that if a product I sell consistantly pisses off my customers I have plenty to say about it. And it will either be fixed or I will drop that supplier.
> Of course, Home Depot can t really say much to Ridgid because they are probably in bed together.
> I don t think it s just coincidence they are so well color cooridinated.
> 
> ...


I agree that this whole situation should have been handled differently and a recall notice should have been put out. Hell, I'd be pretty choked if I were in some of these people's shoes who don't live close to a HD, don't have a service center locally and got a bad saw. They have a right to be upset. I just don't think it's reasonable to go off and say they are all crap. Yes, the issues and complaints are well documented on the internet, but are they the majority? We all go to the internet when we get a bad product, but do we do the same when we got a good one? I'm sure some of you do, but I think people are naturally more vocal when they are upset with something. Now if Ridgid was turning people away to get the trunnion replaced, that would be another story.

You saying they are all junk because you got a bad saw is about as reasonable as me going off and saying they are amazing saws with no problems just because I got a good one.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Because bad alignment is such a safety hazard, I'm really surprised that they didn't deal with the issue, but am equally surprised that I haven't read about any law suits from people injured due to this saw causing kickback….


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

*You saying they are all junk because you got a bad saw is about as reasonable as me going off and saying they are amazing saws with no problems just because I got a good one.*

Not exactly.. you are in a very, very small minority. There is an overwhelming majority who claim otherwise. And it seems that a LOT of the positive reviews floating around are from people who claim it's their first saw or an upgrade from a sub $100 bench-top thing, so their opinion is a bit skewed.

Cheers,
Brad


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## Dan658 (Dec 3, 2014)

> *You saying they are all junk because you got a bad saw is about as reasonable as me going off and saying they are amazing saws with no problems just because I got a good one.*
> 
> Not exactly.. you are in a very, very small minority. There is an overwhelming majority who claim otherwise. And it seems that a LOT of the positive reviews floating around are from people who claim it s their first saw or an upgrade from a sub $100 bench-top thing, so their opinion is a bit skewed.
> 
> ...


Am I the minority? How can you say that with certainty? Unless you've seen some sort of poll or study, that is purely opinion. I agree with the reviewers you mentioned though. I mentioned further up that I take store reviews with a BIG grain of salt.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

*Am I the minority? How can you say that with certainty?*

Hey, I feel your pain man 

Hang in there!

Cheers,
Brad


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## Crank50 (Jan 31, 2014)

To me the problem is not whether 10% or 50% or 90% of those saws are crap.
MY saw is crap and I'm pissed off.
The company's handling of the problem is where my problem is.
As far as I'm concerned everything Ridgid makes is now crap because I know for a fact they will not support me if I have a problem.


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## Garbanzolasvegas (Jan 15, 2015)

If you get the R4512 here is a list of things your gunna need to get to make it functional.

1) Home made PALs parts
2) New Miter gauge such as Incra
3) Micrometer and miter gauge slot parts

Don't look like such a good sea know does it


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