# The "Mixed Emotions" Hand Plane Thread



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

I'd be showing my years, but the old stand-up comedy joke went like this: Define "Mixed Emotions" ... punchline: *Seeing your evil Mother-in-Law drive over a cliff….in your new Ferrari!*

Now how do I segue into my story? I was out Saturday, there was a yard sale ad I'd seen previously for "wood, woodworking tools, and other tools, and antique oak furniture."

So I got there 15 minutes early. I always ask how well the sale is doing, and apparently I didn't miss anything due to earlier early birds! BUT… the so-called wood was these salvaged, 3/4"spf plywood, stinky from decades in the garage. The tools were just dump-pickens, really, but what the hey. Then I spotted a box of 20 C-clamps, all nice ancient Brinks and Cottens, and Cincinnatis, just $10.

Then, underneath it, was a sad-looking Stanley 4 1/2. Of course it came home with me, I didn't even look at it, it was $5!!! I felt the wolves gathering, so I paid for my finds and put them in the truck.

Once in the screened porch, coffee in hand, I sat down and looked the plane over for the first time…
Whomp, there it is!! a Bedrock 604 1/2 with round cheeks!!!! And a SW cutter!! Lateral too! I'd never even seen a 604 1/2 before, and now here's one in my lap!



















Looking over more closely, I noticed… one MAJOR crack in the right cheek…What to do?










so that is the whole story. I do have a couple of planes I bought from an old gent, both had been brazed and resurfaced so well I hardly noticed the job. How do the pros handle such a repair? Or should I just get a replacement body, jeez this one has the patent dates and everything*...What to do, guys???*


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## Tbolt (May 2, 2013)

I would look for someone who can braze it, I would think you would still come out ahead in the deal. I would also look at replacing the tote. The tape job is a dead give away for a crack and the busted top would chew up your hand quick.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, *Todd!*
Yeah, I'm sure I've got a few planes I could cannibalize for a tote and knob. I'm not that fond of making them, been there, done that. The best brazing jobs I've seen were done by machining a v-groove along the crack and filling it in with braze. I'm this far from buying one of those portable two-tank Bernz-o-matic mini-torches, wonder if they throw enough heat to puddle brazing rod on cast iron? Jeez, I've got a dozen dead planes triaged in those plastic Tupperware shoeboxes, I don't know if I want to open a *Handplane Hospital *like Don W has!!


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

The one to ask is Dave over at Stumpy Nubs thread. He recently brazed a block plack back together. he also is too bad a blacksmith, either…


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Nice score PK, even in its sad state, especially in the wild like that. I passed over a #10 with a brazed cheek for $50 this weekend. I just didn't have the gear with me to see if the casting had twisted or not during the brazing process and didn't want to roll the dice on it. The other 2 #10's I saw were priced clean out of the market at $200 a piece.


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## Tbolt (May 2, 2013)

Poopie even better if you can braze it yourself…not something I would try. Christ I have a hard time soldering.

If you can't find a tote to replace yours, let me know and I'm sure I can whip one up for you. I have done several for my planes.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*Chrisstef:* Thanks for the kind words! Yeah, a #10 would be fragile enough to begin with, and you had a good reason to pass on that one for $50. I just got a mint #10 Parplus from England, was just a bit more than $50 with shipping, but it has that replaceable blade thing which I might end up not liking. But I had a void to fill in my gallery.

*Bandit:* I try to stay out of the Stumpy thread; in the past I made the observation that if Lumberjocks was a hot water heater, the Stumpy thread would be the sacrificial magnesium anode. Ahhh, no nonsense, just sweet sweet fun? Unless 'Dave' lives in Canada, the CanadaPost rates for 2-way shipping would be up in the Lei-Nielson $$$$$ range. I wouldn't mind buying a welding rig of some kind, but jeez, I got too many toys now than I know what to do with. But.. I will keep all options open, I'll write to that plane guy who breaks up planes and sells parts on eBay. There's no rush on this little orphan.

*Todd:* I've done lots of soldering, and I did attend a Welding course in Continuing Ed but I only own a helmet and gloves, not sure if I want to open *that* door…
Thanks again for the great responses!


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Well, even in a worst case scenario the frog is going to be worth some good change. Does it have a 3 line Bedrock lever cap? if so, that is also worth a nice chunk. The SW blade is too new to be OEM for the plane, correct? but still value there as well. A nice score. No matter what, I think you are ahead of the game.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I'd braze it then look for a good base but that's going to be pretty hard to find unless you get really lucky.


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

+1 to Don. A base will be difficult, but if you keep your options open, something might come up. For instance, not that long ago nhplaneparts had a 'Rock roundy 605-1/2 base in their web store (it didn't last very long).


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks,* Shane, Don and Jay!*
I've just sent off a message to the NH planeparts guy, oddly, I think he knows my brother who lives a few minutes away from him. I haven't cracked open my books yet to get a fix on the details of this plane. Shane, no the lever cap is plain, no logo or anything. This is why I missed identifying it as Bedrock at the get-go. Hmmm… I wonder what else besides a 604 1/2 would fit this frog and other good parts?


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

The frog will also fit a 605-1/2, 606 or 607, types 1-4 (type 1 & 2 bases will not have the "60" prefix, just 5-1/2, 6, etc.) That is what I was referring to by keeping your options open.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

PK, I'd be inclined to sharpen the iron, repair the tote, replace the knob and put it on the 'user' shelf until further notice. Even with that crack I bet it's a solid user, and it'll be standing by for whenever you do get into the brazing business yourself (or find a replacement base, or etc. etc). My .02, and Nice Find!!


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*Poops said-* "I try to stay out of the Stumpy thread; in the past I made the observation that if Lumberjocks was a hot water heater, the Stumpy thread would be the sacrificial magnesium anode. Ahhh, no nonsense, just sweet sweet fun?"

*For those who don't know what Poopy is saying-* In a water heater the anode rod is what attracts the rust so it doesn't pollute the walls of the heater itself. It's also normally removed if a water treatment system is installed because it will cause the water to have a pungent smell similar to rotten eggs. So he is not only insulting me, he's implying that those who frequent my thread are the crap that would otherwise pollute Lumberjocks.

At least that's how I understand it. But I am clearly a gigantic moron, so what do I know.

My response is that my thread (which really isn't "mine") is inhabited by some very nice people who like to chat about what they do in their shops, what they do outside their shops, and whatever's on their mind. A lot of it is about woodworking, some of it is not. There's the occasional fart joke, but none of the adult humor or profanity you see all over Lumberjocks. Most importantly it has become a place where people have become very good friends, drawn together by their mutual love for woodworking. There's no arguing, no debates. Several have experienced very serious issues (cancer, death of family members, tragic accidents, just to name a few) and the friends made on that thread have helped them through it. I created the thread to hold a contest a long time ago, they took it from there and made it the mini-community it is today.

Meanwhile Lumberjocks is full of arguing, debating, insults, politics, dirty jokes, and all the crap that you never find on our thread.

*But Poopy's probably right. It's the Stumpy Nubs thread that is the crap rod of the site.*

Personally I like Poopy. This isn't an attack on him personally, he's a good guy. But there's a lot about that thread and the people who frequent it that you don't know, acts of kindness and support for friends that would make you embarrassed to have characterized that thread as you often have, in your comment above, and several other places over the last year or so on Lj's.

The people on that thread aren't the type that are going to come over here and speak up, frankly neither am I. But this had to be said, so I will do it for them. I might be the crap rod of Lumberjocks, but "the Stumpy Nubs thread" is a nice place. So please lay off it.

Now' I've said my peace, and I won't try and hijack this thread. But I am quite sure I will be blocked now anyway.


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## Makarov (Jun 16, 2013)

I am a firm believer that tools are meant to be used, If this plane were mine I would have it commercially brazed or welded, clean it and put it into service. When I pick up a tool that is well used, I feel a connection to the guy who used it to build a house, barn or furniture. New tools are nice but barn finds have history.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

As for the hand plane, as long as the bottom is flat, it's repairable. Often a big crack will change the shape of the plane and the bottom will be out of flat more than can be lapped away. Or some other distortion may cause issues with frog alignment. I have a couple like that. If that's not a problem here, I say fix it or get it fixed and give a good plane a second life.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Well… Stumpy…you nailed it. I too am somehow expected to take all kinds of shots in LJ from all kinds of people, without a whimper. The anode analogy was used to point out that a lot of the people who have been unreasonable to me are now spending their time mostly in your thread…which is great!! That's about all I meant.
Simply, you're the pied piper for the idle disaffected. Well, crap that didn't come out right either, but I have enough respect for you to not crash your 35,000-post party. I really did not mean to provoke hostilities between you and me, sorry that you reacted in the worst way possible. Enuff, and no blocking. I only block people whose eyes are too close together, or have too many syllables in their last name. Are we good now, Jim?
*Oh, and please check out my #135 Liberty Bell restoration…you'll find it fascinating*. http://lumberjocks.com/topics/50515


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Yup. We're good.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Oh, and..perhaps on a different day Stumpy would realize that a magnesium anode is what makes a bad situation good. I really think that is where I was going with that. I'm so far behind on the post count there I'll never get caught up.


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## ToddJB (Jul 26, 2012)

I've never repaired a plane, but I've repaired a few cast iron pieces (which I believe the plane body is cast iron) with those portable brazing kits. The steps I take is I drill a small hole at the end of the crack to prevent the crack from cracking more when you heat it up, then grind out a V-groove in the crack, like you mentioned above, clean it REALLY well with alcohol. Once it's preped put the whole plane body in your oven, set it on it's highest temp, let it come up to temp, then pull it out, heat and braze your crack, then cover it with some housing insulation to let it cool VERY slowly. Or throw it back in the oven (turned off) and let is cool over night.

The point here is that you heat it up evenly and let it cool down evenly. Cast Iron can and will warp if it is heated or cooled in one spot too quickly.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Good stuff, *Todd!* I wondered about using one of those giant annealing furnaces….
I recall, back in the 60's, engine blocks could sometimes be fixed by 'heli-arc welding'... But I haven't heard the expression used, much less seen the technique done. My plan is to buy one of those propane/oxygen 2 cylinder welding kits… if somebody can tell me from experience if it will work. The pre-heating advice is well-taken, sir.


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## ToddJB (Jul 26, 2012)

I have an older version this guy to do all of mine: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bernzomatic-OX2550KC-Oxy-Map-Pro-Torch-Kit-331673/203391033#.Ub9XIuesi-0

The issue with this kind of kit is the the oxygen goes VERY fast. So buy an extra bottle of Oxygen. But if you use the oven for preheating it should get your metal most of the way there, so hopefully it won't take it too long to heat up the rest of the way with the torch. Also, it's ideal to do all of this on fire bricks, instead of a metal. The bricks won't pull the heat from the plane body like a vise or metal table will.


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

I've never welded or brazed anything, but even if I had, if I wasn't confident enough about my brazing skills the first thing I would do is get a quote from someone that is. And if the tool is valuable like this then check out enough of their work to make sure they can do a good enough job. But if you do want to tackle it, go balls out and have fun.


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