# Red Oak (excluding QS)



## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Is there any wood as ugly and cheap looking as red oak? When I see cheap cabinets, the kind you find in tract homes with pressboard carcasses and staples there is always on thing in common - red oak frames, doors and drawers. Cheap furniture stores all feature red oak as well. You know, the ones with catchy names like Oak and More.

The bottom line is when I see red oak, I think low-end junk. I know some great furniture has been made using it, but given its current stigma, maybe it's time to relegate it to the fire pit where it belongs.


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## AZWoody (Jan 18, 2015)

Alder? woops, just kidding folks…


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## Woodmaster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I made my kitchen cabinets out of quartersawn red oak as well as other furniture pieces. I will not use anything but plywood for the cabinet carcasses and solid wood face frames. All my trim in the house is red oak but the house is a hundred years old this year.


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## GR8HUNTER (Jun 13, 2016)

thank you for YOUR OPINION :<))


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## EarlS (Dec 21, 2011)

I'm with Woodmaster - red oak is a fine quality wood. You have to take the time to find boards that compliment each other and don't just slap things together. Even the nicest wood look like garbage if no thought goes into the aesthetics. A fine piece of furniture is much more than wood cut and pieced together to make something. The beauty and quality are where the craftsmanship comes in.

BTW - Woodmaster - that is a fine looking craftsman style cabinet.


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## TravisH (Feb 6, 2013)

Personally I think it suffers for a few reasons. Cheap crap furniture, cabinets, and flooring all look like low end junk no matter the wood. I cringe at the "cherry" and "walnut" finish on the cheap furniture and flooring.

Also due to price a lot of flat sawn and the resulting cathedral grain gets used and over all nowhere as aesthetically pleasing or refined as rift or quarter sawn in my opinion. I just think it takes more skill to incorporate the flat sawn stuff but then again the general public is driving what I typically cringe at by their spending.



















The other issue it is red oak is relatively cheap and plentiful so ends up being used by a lot novice woodworkers that don't necessarily think about the finishing aspect or have the skills to do the wood justice. So you get some ugly pieces frequently.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Quarter sawn is a completely different thing. Consider my post amended to exclude quarter sawn.


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

Alder since they stain it to look like red oak it must be lower junk.

Rich


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Alder since they stain it to look like red oak it must be lower junk.
> 
> - diverlloyd


lol, no, just the finisher is at fault in that case. If you paint a Mercedes paisley, it doesn't speak badly about the car, just the loser who had it painted that way.


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## GrantA (Jul 19, 2014)

Damn. Maybe I need to start over on this desk top


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

*"Is there any wood as ugly and cheap looking as red oak?"*

Well Rich….......I have seen some pretty ugly pallet wood. 

This would probably look better had he use flat sawn oak. Just saying.


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## marc_rosen (Sep 9, 2009)

Rich,
You just shamed me into setting fire to my entire kitchen. (except for my Flame Box Elder refrigerator and matching closet door).
Marc


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

> If you paint a Mercedes paisley, it doesn t speak badly about the car, just the loser who had it painted that way.
> 
> - Rich


At first I wasn't sure if that would look stupid. 
But now I'm convinced it would look stupid.


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

Rich depends on the quality of the work. I have seen a couple cars painted paisley that looked very good. One was a Porsche with the paisley pattern in silver then the racing stripes in red with the paisley pattern in color. It was impressive and have to had numerous man hours in it. I understand what you are saying though.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

Rubber wood from Indonesia. It's very blah the only wood i can think of that needs stain to look better.


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

> If you paint a Mercedes paisley, it doesn t speak badly about the car, just the loser who had it painted that way.
> 
> - Rich
> 
> ...


That's busier then the Porsche. Locally we have a BMW that is fully chromed. A ass for every seat I guess.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

Oak isn't bad looking wood in my opinion, (of course there is no comparison to Alder)
I just think, for me here in Vegas, during the 80's everything was built out of Oak.

I just got tired of seeing it, and now everytime I do, it makes me feel like it's dated.

On top of that, woods like Alder, Maple, Walnut became popular in place of the Oak.


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## BroncoBrian (Jan 14, 2013)

Oak is a poor man's Alder.

Alder is a rich man's Walnut.

Walnuts are delicious.

I'll be around all weekend…


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

I'm not a fan of red oak. For one thing it has been overused in cheap furniture which is not the fault of the wood. The other is my boatbuilder's bias against this rot prone cousin of "real" oak. In the shipyards we used to call it (excuse my french) piss oak.


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

Paul has the right idea here, though I disagree with him since I kind of like red oak. There was a period of a couple decades before everything became particle board where most cheap furniture and all manner of mill work was flat sawn red oak. Got some cabinets from the '70s or '80s? Chances are it's flat sawn red oak with huge roundovers. All with that Minwax golden oak finish.

It's not my favorite wood or anything, and all things being equal I'd use nothing but walnut. But:

it's hard
it's easy to work
it's relatively inexpensive
it's readily available everywhere
QS it's rays are beautiful
rift sawn it's still really nice looking

Keep hating red oak, people. Keeps it cheap. My feeling is that if red oak wasn't so plentiful and cheap domestically, it'd be a prized import. E.g. everyone hates cathedral grain red oak panels, but loves cathedral grain teak.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Even though it was intended to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek, I'm glad I posted this. I knew I despised the wood, but Travis's post really pins down why. It's that damned cathedral grain that is alway so random on cheap furniture and cabinets. Combined with cheap stain that settles in that deep grain, it's just a nightmare That's is, pure and simple.

In case anyone missed it, I amended this to exclude QS oak. Totally different animal and I love it.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Rich,
> You just shamed me into setting fire to my entire kitchen. (except for my Flame Box Elder refrigerator and matching closet door).
> 
> - marc_rosen


Marc, I'm so sorry. But I believe you will be better off once you rebuild.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

The internet ate my long wonderful post.

So I will abbreviate. How dare you Woody. Diver sucks and so does red oak. Jbay and bronco are my new old best friends. And red oak sucks.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

I think anything that gets that mass produced gets old quick and gets that stigma. Same with all the "mission" style furniture they sell at discount stores and walmart etc. It looks cheap. But then you an actual arts and crafts piece and you are taken back. I'm with you on the tract orange cabinets(they were in my tract home I bought, but are now painted white). But i have made furniture from it and it looks fine, stained differently than tract orange. And i can actually pick up decent red oak at Home Depot 2 miles from home for cheap.


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## WoodenDreams (Aug 23, 2018)

50% of my projects requested to build, are to built in red oak. 40% is aromatic red cedar. And about 10% are requested in mahogany, hickory, maple or poplar. When it comes to Memorial Urns, about 75% is requested in red oak. One of the funeral homes I supply with urns, requests only red oak. The Table I'm building now is also requested in red oak. All of my clients can't be wrong. I think the average John Doe that sees furniture in the stores, imitation red oak over MDF boards, and judge their opinions from that. We all have different tastes. My wife wants me to make hickory cabinets in the kitchen, currently the kitchen is oak. She likes any wood that has irregular patterns or knots. Beauty in the eyes of the beholder. If someone commissions you do build out of red oak, are you going to refuse the work.


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## WoodenDreams (Aug 23, 2018)

A couple weeks ago someone wanted me to restore his old cherry coffee table. He got upset when I showed him the expensive cherry coffee table was actually made from MDF board to look like cherry. Red Oak isn't the only imitated wood out there. I stopped in at a local furniture store to check out the advertised chests they're selling. They told me it is aromatic red cedar. I asked the salesman "How come you can't smell the cedar?" then I showed him the veneer covering over the MDF board starting to peel away. He gave me a strange look then walked away. This type of furniture helps my business, since I only use solid wood.


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

> Oak isn t bad looking wood in my opinion, (of course there is no comparison to Alder)
> I just think, for me here in Vegas, during the 80 s everything was built out of Oak.
> 
> I just got tired of seeing it, and now everytime I do, it makes me feel like it s dated.
> ...


Same.
90% of the jobs we did were Red Oak up until mid to late 90's. 100's of thousand of board feet….gets pretty boring to say the least. I could say the same thing about Maple right now. The last 10-12 years was 90% Maple. Again, 100's of thousands of board feet milled….blech. 
Markets shifting again though.
Probably 50% Maple, 30% Quarter sawn White Oak, 20% mix of everything else. Maybe 5% Red Oak?(if that)
Back in the 90's Jatoba was all the rage here as well, until everyone figured out that in this climate at least, it's nothing more than unstable, misbehaving garbage. Now it's very rare to get a request, and even more rare to get an order once the customer finds out I won't warranty anything made from the crap.


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

> Oak isn t bad looking wood in my opinion, (of course there is no comparison to Alder)
> I just think, for me here in Vegas, during the 80 s everything was built out of Oak.
> 
> I just got tired of seeing it, and now everytime I do, it makes me feel like it s dated.
> ...


i hear ya here! i was framing houses from the early 90's up to 2006 all over west metro detroit. $250k mil to $2 mil homes and oak was the standard for flooring,trim,cabinets….. it got old.
i dont build homes any more but make stuff in my shop. i'll build with oak occasionally but prefer to use something different.


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## bndawgs (Oct 21, 2016)

I like Red Oak better than the barnwood or pallet wood look that's the rage these days.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Wooden Dreams, actually. All of your clients are wrong. Red oak sucks and is inferior to alder in every way.


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## JCamp (Nov 22, 2016)

Give it another 20 years and you'll get sick of maple and walnut because it'll start being used so much. With some of the import restrictions tho you'll probably love mahogany cause the imports of that will probably get cut way back. In the guitar community walnut and cherry is starting to be used much more due to it being hard to import/export guitars being made with rosewood


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## DBDesigns (May 29, 2018)

81 year old southern red oak floors throughout my house. They still look stunning with a dark stain. Every wood has its place if the craftsmanship is solid.

Also, wide quarter-sawn oak of all species (Some call it "Tiger Oak") looks impressive when it is left to shine on it's own. It's like a fine steak cooked medium rare with no steak sauce. Simple but classic.

Plus, around here (Atlanta) red oak is practically free. You can pick up 4×4s on the side of the road where they are doing pipe projects because they use it to ship the ductile iron pipes on flat beds. It's heavy, dense, and free. If you take six 4×4s and glue them up side to side and use the legs properly braced, it makes a kick ass work bench!

Don't forget pallet wood either. Granted, I'm not making cabinets or chest of drawers out of this stuff but it sure is useful when it is so cheap.


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## BroncoBrian (Jan 14, 2013)

> The internet ate my long wonderful post.
> 
> - TheFridge


I feel that somehow we are missing wisdom in that original post. Although I am not surprised. That much effort was bound to be wasted on a thread named "Red Oak."


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

You alder guys explain how it's a better wood please? Looking at its stats it cheaper, weighs less,less durable and has no character. It one step above pine although pine does take more skill to finish well. 
https://www.wood-database.com/red-oak/
https://www.wood-database.com/red-alder/
Are there and examples of antique furniture made of alder that have survived? I think the only people in the world that like the stuff are the 4 or 5 of you on this forum that make the "hur dur it's alder" comments over,over and over again. Stats don't lie it's cheap junk period.


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## BroncoBrian (Jan 14, 2013)

> You alder guys explain how it s a better wood please? Looking at its stats it cheaper, weighs less,less durable and has no character. It one step above pine although pine does take more skill to finish well.
> https://www.wood-database.com/red-oak/
> https://www.wood-database.com/red-alder/
> Are there and examples of antique furniture made of alder that have survived? I think the only people in the world that like the stuff are the 4 or 5 of you on this forum that make the "hur dur it s alder" comments over,over and over again. Stats don t lie it s cheap junk period.
> ...


Pine is a favorite among forest fires. Alder is glorious.

Listen diver, there are 3 kinds of people. Those who can take a joke, and those who are excellent with numbers.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I think anything that gets that mass produced gets old quick and gets that stigma. Same with all the "mission" style furniture they sell at discount stores and walmart etc. It looks cheap. But then you an actual arts and crafts piece and you are taken back. I'm with you on the tract orange cabinets(they were in my tract home I bought, but are now painted white). But i have made furniture from it and it looks fine, stained differently than tract orange. And i can actually pick up decent red oak at Home Depot 2 miles from home for cheap.
> 
> - SMP


Tract orange. I love that. Perfect description.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

I prefer White Oak but I just like Oak personally. QS is great and the ray flecking makes for nice highlights. I'm okay with flatsawn too though. It's a classic wood and it has a classic look. It ain't for everything but neither is any other wood. And it removes a financial barrier for a lot of people who want to make fine furniture for themselves and their families. $3/bf for red oak is a big drop from $8/bf for Walnut. Just keep the "Golden" stains off of it and don't slather it with a dozen coats of glossy poly!


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Give it another 20 years and you'll get sick of maple and walnut because it'll start being used so much. With some of the import restrictions tho you'll probably love mahogany cause the imports of that will probably get cut way back. In the guitar community walnut and cherry is starting to be used much more due to it being hard to import/export guitars being made with rosewood
> 
> - JCamp


You have me blocked, but feel free to post in my thread? Hmmm.

Your loss too, since I have some awesome knives I wanted to add to your "Show us your favorite knives" thread and it wouldn't have wound up with 0 replies.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I feel that somehow we are missing wisdom in that original post. Although I am not surprised. That much effort was bound to be wasted on a thread named "Red Oak."
> 
> - BroncoBrian


As the author of the OP, trust me when I say there was no wisdom involved


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> I like Red Oak better than the barnwood or pallet wood look that s the rage these days.
> 
> - Steve


What if I told you a lot of reclaimed barn and pallet wood is red oak? I have some I have been sawing off the patina, even found a really old pallet that had QSWO, all beautiful under the patina. Only problem is the blackened nail holes.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

> You alder guys explain how it s a better wood please? Looking at its stats it cheaper, weighs less,less durable and has no character. It one step above pine although pine does take more skill to finish well.
> https://www.wood-database.com/red-oak/
> https://www.wood-database.com/red-alder/
> Are there and examples of antique furniture made of alder that have survived? I think the only people in the world that like the stuff are the 4 or 5 of you on this forum that make the "hur dur it s alder" comments over,over and over again. Stats don t lie it s *cheap junk* period.
> ...


This would not have had half the character if it was red oak.










Not everything has to be an antique to be enjoyed for many years. 
I wouldn't consider this to be cheap junk!

I do understand though that you just are annoyed with the Alder comments.


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

I agree with you but I carve inspirational signs using a CNC router and many different substrates. Rough signs made with barn wood sell much better than finely finished walnut, maple or cherry. Here is an example from last year's Christmas stuff. The material is 3-1/2" heart pine tongue and groove planking from a 19th century school house. If it were red oak, it would never have sold.












> I like Red Oak better than the barnwood or pallet wood look that s the rage these days.
> 
> - Steve


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

The only time I've seen something made of red oak that didn't make me throw up in my mouth was a guy that used quartersawn red oak for a set of shelving. Looked ok, but still made me a bit queasy. Flatsawn, red oak (especially if darkly stained) instantly dates a piece to mid-80's. There was some good that came out of the 80's but a lot that should be left there, red oak included.


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## bndawgs (Oct 21, 2016)

> I agree with you but I carve inspirational signs using a CNC router and many different substrates. Rough signs made with barn wood sell much better than finely finished walnut, maple or cherry. Here is an example from last year s Christmas stuff. The material is 3-1/2" heart pine tongue and groove planking from a 19th century school house. If it were red oak, it would never have sold.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> I agree with you but I carve inspirational signs using a CNC router and many different substrates. Rough signs made with barn wood sell much better than finely finished walnut, maple or cherry. Here is an example from last year s Christmas stuff. The material is 3-1/2" heart pine tongue and groove planking from a 19th century school house. If it were red oak, it would never have sold.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, I don't blame you at all for capitalizing on the market.

I know a majority of the wood used inside the Biltmore House in NC was Red Oak. Lot of it was quartersawn


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## bndawgs (Oct 21, 2016)

I agree with you but I carve inspirational signs using a CNC router and many different substrates. Rough signs made with barn wood sell much better than finely finished walnut, maple or cherry. Here is an example from last year s Christmas stuff. The material is 3-1/2" heart pine tongue and groove planking from a 19th century school house. If it were red oak, it would never have sold.










I like Red Oak better than the barnwood or pallet wood look that s the rage these days.

- Steve

- ArtMann

Oh, I don t blame you at all for capitalizing on the market.

I know a majority of the wood used inside the Biltmore House in NC was Red Oak. Lot of it was quartersawn

- Steve
[/QUOTE]


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

> Wooden Dreams, actually. All of your clients are wrong. Red oak sucks and is inferior to alder in every way.
> 
> - TheFridge


and ya know what helps everyone that likes red oak and got hurt by all the comments?
BACON!!!!!
it help us,too, but just 'cause we love BACON!!!

have scientists figured out how to make BACON wood yet???


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

Here is another way we used to butcher Red Oak
Whitewash was all the rage.
Here is a kitchen I did in about 85'


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Jbay, I find paint is a perfect solution for red oak.



> The only time I ve seen something made of red oak that didn t make me throw up in my mouth was a guy that used quartersawn red oak for a set of shelving. Looked ok, but still made me a bit queasy. Flatsawn, red oak (especially if darkly stained) instantly dates a piece to mid-80 s. There was some good that came out of the 80 s but a lot that should be left there, red oak included.
> 
> - Manitario


I have a man crush on this guy now 

A nice piece of quarter sawn will be exempt from criticism. Notice I said nice.

I guess it's a good thing all the barns around south Louisiana were built from cypress and not red oak. Otherwise there might be some serial barn burnings going on. Well. The 1 out of 100 that didn't rot first.

Oh, and ignorance of the greatness of alder is still ignorance. What other wood do you need a mig welder for joinery? Thought not. Did you know that all petrified wood is just alder in its natural state Diver? When exposed to sunlight for for a couple days it intentionally softens itself to let you work it without diamond edge tools.

I will say. Red oak can at least say it's not pine. Don't get me started on pine.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

I have officially updated the title to exclude QS.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Don't forget alder.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Don't forget alder.
> 
> - TheFridge


Alder speaks for itself.


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

Jbay yes it's still cheaper then if it was made with a better wood.


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## DBDesigns (May 29, 2018)

Jbay,
I'm still hanging onto resentment from that "whitewashed" kitchen I had to endure back in the late 80's. Eeeuuu!
Glad we sold that place back in the day. Disco was hard to endure too!


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

*"Everyone to their own taste! said the old lady, as she kissed the cow."*


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## ppg677 (Jan 21, 2016)

Knotty Alder is cheaper than Red Oak at my supplier.

Flat sawn Red Oak with generic crappy finishes is….yuck.

Well finished Red Oak can be very nice.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Well finished Red Oak can be very nice.
> 
> - ppg677


You should post some photos of nicely finished flat sawn red oak.


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

As they say, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

> Jbay, I find paint is a perfect solution for red oak.
> 
> - TheFridge


So is building an outhouse, building a hog barn, or building a campfire!

One more reason to dislike Red Oak…...Most of it smells like cow ******************** when you cut it.


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## EarlS (Dec 21, 2011)

FWIW - I learned most of my basic woodworking using red oak so it makes me a bit nostalgic when I see something made with it.

Oh, and my dad made me a wall clock and a couple of bullet proof step stools too. He also made both of my daughters hope chests from Red Oak so I'll punch any one of you ornery SOB's right in the kisser that want to talk bad about stuff my Dad made or his choice of wood.

Damn - where are those kleenex??? He still does some wood working but I don't get to to see him, let alone spend much shop time with him.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> FWIW - I learned most of my basic woodworking using red oak so it makes me a bit nostalgic when I see something made with it.
> 
> Oh, and my dad made me a wall clock and a couple of bullet proof step stools too. He also made both of my daughters hope chests from Red Oak so I ll punch any one of you ornery SOB s right in the kisser that want to talk bad about stuff my Dad made or his choice of wood.
> 
> ...


I hereby make a motion that Earl's dad be exempted from any red oak teasing. We'll grandfather him in as it were. Besides, I don't want to get punched in the kisser.

Don't get any ideas about claiming legacy status though, Earl. You're still fair game


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

> Oak isn t bad looking wood in my opinion, (of course there is no comparison to Alder)
> I just think, for me here in Vegas, during the 80 s everything was built out of Oak.
> 
> I just got tired of seeing it, and now everytime I do, it makes me feel like it s dated.
> ...


+1
But the future is "composit materials and color" 








I say this for the number of "euro cabinet shops' that are poping up in the Phoenix area. 
*Trend my friends* for those who remember metal kitcken cabinets-


















Today-









Today - metal,composite or wood? 
I like the use of "mixed media"


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

> *"Everyone to their own taste! said the old lady, as she kissed the cow."*
> 
> - Phil32


+1


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

Oops, my apologies to the young lady.


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

I think we should have a LJ's red oak build challenge. Build something that is well built and designed but make it completely out of red oak. The ugliest project wins.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

I'm in.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Can we use past projects? Here's my entry.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

I've done soo many red oak projects, I'm sure I could top the ugly board on this one.
I'll start: (early to mid 80's)


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

I think red oak is ok, but I do think it needs probably the most attention to grain selection and finishing. Same with pine, fast growth stuff makes me shutter unless someone has seriously considered layout and selection.

In my mind, the ugliest red oak is the rotary cut plywood 8^P


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

From the Wood Whisperer circa 2013- 
"Do you like Red Oak?"
https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/poll/poll-do-you-like-red-oak/

But then there is "White Oak", 
If you go red then you might be dead- if you go white then it is such a delight…
referring to Oak that is.


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

Here is my entry in the Red Oak Smackdown:










Direction sign with Tiger-eye inserts


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

Nice work Phil


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## ppg677 (Jan 21, 2016)

> I think we should have a LJ s red oak build challenge. Build something that is well built and designed but make it completely out of red oak. The ugliest project wins.
> 
> - Manitario


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

Paul, you win


> Can we use past projects? Here s my entry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

> Can we use past projects? Here s my entry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dang! That was my contribution to "How to make pallet wood look good".

One wonders why there is such a dearth of quartersawn red oak. Go to any home center and they have racks and racks of flat sawn crap. Can we get some of that in quartersawn? Probably slightly more expensive, but worth it, IN MY OPINION.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

> Dang! That was my contribution to "How to make pallet wood look good".
> 
> - Tony1212


*Tony* I've used pallet wood to make those too. It works just as well as Red Oak.


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## WoodenDreams (Aug 23, 2018)

May we should go back in time and make all of our kitchen cabinets out off sheet metal. Yep, a nice 50's look. The house I bought in 1978 had metal kitchen cabinets. They did the same job as the wood cabinets.


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## NoSpace (Jan 2, 2015)

Interesting. Growing up, my impression of oak was that it was a wood for the rich. Our "good furniture," when my parents were finally able to get a nice table and china closet, was oak veneer. This was in contrast to our "pine table". When I first got into woodworking, the guy who pushed me onto the path had done a few large projects that were all red oak-bookshelves etc., which confirmed my belief that this was to go-to wood for the pros. Further supporting that impression was the local hardware store. I believe red oak is the most expensive wood sold there-and by the linear foot it's really, really expensive. I bought pine, poplar and maple, but never (red) oak due to price.

When I discovered this thing called a lumber yard just before turning 40, I was surprised that red oak was so inexpensive. I always liked maple and that became the go-to wood for me, and I'd buy other woods as I'd imagine they'd contrast with maple. Before seeing this thread I would have said the problem with red oak is it has a real country feel to the grain, and projects that would look good in oak would be larger projects-big tables, cabinets, doors, or a decorative wagon wheel. Without a space dedicated to a country style, the grain might be too much, whereas a walnut table probably looks good anywhere.

So by sheer luck, just a hobbyist, but I've experimented with 20+ different kinds of wood but never oak. I've never had oak in my shop. Now that I know it's officially not cool I guess I have to formally cross it off the list.


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

> Now that I know it s officially not cool I guess I have to formally cross it off the list.
> 
> - NoSpace












Remember when Christmas sweaters were garbage? Now everyone wants them. The uglier the better. This thread will do the same thing to red oak. You just watch what the hottest furniture trend for 2019 will be.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Just for that. I'm gonna build something out of red oak. It IS qtr/rift sawn


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

> Interesting. Growing up, my impression of oak was that it was a wood for the rich. Our "good furniture," when my parents were finally able to get a nice table and china closet, was oak veneer.
> 
> - NoSpace


Lol, me too. I remember going to look at houses as a kid and my parents being impressed with all the darkly stained oak.

BTW this is the best thread on LJ's right now.


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## MikeDilday (Feb 21, 2017)

Here is my red oak cabinet.


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## MikeDilday (Feb 21, 2017)

This is a great post. Now that everybody knows it's not cool the prices will plummet and save me money. I make a lot of furniture out of red oak. I think it looks great if finished properly.


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

it can make some nice scrollsaw projects


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

Yep… Oak sucks


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Time to resurrect this forum fossil. Florip Toolworks (makers of fine saws) posted this on Instagram, and I am in complete agreement.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

I know exactly what he's talking about - red oak can look really cheesy.

But it doesn't if you finish it the right way, and… well, if you don't make cheesy furniture!


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## Kudzupatch (Feb 3, 2015)

Didn't read all the comments and I am sure you stepped on some toes….... But i have to agree (mostly).

I would stop just of saying all Red Oak, I have some that was cut well and has a really nice grain. But most of what we see the grain is just ugly. The wife and I refer to it as Ugly Oak. I am glad to see we are not the only ones that see it as ugly though.

Properly cut of maybe it is the species but I have seen some that is really nice but it is the exception to the rule. I have a bunch that was cut to thin but the grain is really nice. It surprised me when I planed the first board.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

I have some flat sawn red oak. But it identifies as QSWO.


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## JackDuren (Oct 10, 2015)

I've worked with some of the most expensive woods out there. I still like oak…

I'm a poor furniture maker. That's my story and I'm stickin wid it.. .


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

I like how you reversed those grain patterns. Pretty cool, Grant.


> Damn. Maybe I need to start over on this desk top
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

delete. double.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

I have some very nice Japanese chisels that have red oak handles. The wood is nice very small pores.
I don't like the red we have here in the states. I'd rather work with Alder poor mans cherry
Good Luck everyone


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## CWWoodworking (Nov 28, 2017)

Who cares? If you don't like it, don't use it.

I don't like hard maple, yellow pine, hickory, and sycamore (or red oak). Should I start a blog about it?


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## LeeRoyMan (Feb 23, 2019)

> Who cares? If you don't like it, don't use it.
> 
> I don't like hard maple, yellow pine, hickory, and sycamore (or red oak).
> 
> ...


You will have to find a better sense of humor if you do. 
BTW, I love the look of a good figured sycamore!


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> You will have to find a better sense of humor if you do.
> BTW, I love the look of a good figured sycamore!
> 
> - LeeRoyMan


LOL. Posting a comment to say you don't care is kind of like phoning someone to tell them you're not speaking to them.


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

why shipwrights would/should not use red oak:


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## jbmaine (Nov 8, 2019)

I think RO can turn out rather nice if you match the grain the right way and use the correct finish. Here's a few of my projects out of RO


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

I've found the best thing to do with red oak is to do like Mick Jagger says and paint it black.










Still haven't figured out what to put in there.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Rich, you are fighting a losing battle. It's like the labor freight of wood. Cheap, available works well and stains well. Key word "cheap" not looks. Harbor freight, even in this pandemic, is adding stores. When you shop price, Red Oak is going to be in that group. To many price trumps looks.

That being said, there are some who do like the looks.

What back when I build my bonnet top hybrid highboy (as I call it) I use Red Oak because I wasn't confident of my skill level to complete the job. I use Red Oak and scaled it down in size, both to save money in case of failure. If I was to build another one, it would not be scaled down and would not be Red Oak.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Rich, you are fighting a losing battle.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy


It's not a battle at all, AG. This was a tongue-in-cheek post I did three years ago. It ran its course and sat idle since then, but when Florip Toolworks posted the Tonya Harding meme a few nights ago on Instagram, I couldn't resist resurrecting it.

It does seem to have ruffled some feathers…lol


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Rich, you are fighting a losing battle.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy
> 
> ...


So, I suppose "battle" was a poor choice of words. At any rate, you didn't ruffle any feathers here.


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## LeeRoyMan (Feb 23, 2019)

> I ve found the best thing to do with red oak is to do like Mick Jagger says and paint it black.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


+1


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

> I ve found the best thing to do with red oak is to do like Mick Jagger says and paint it black.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's right purdy! By the same token, buying a plank the right width for the project has value, even if the wood isn't some other person's choice. Example-

https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/420797


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## pontic (Sep 25, 2016)

Red Plank sawn Oak.


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## Foghorn (Jan 30, 2020)

> I ve found the best thing to do with red oak is to do like Mick Jagger says and paint it black.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My 8' red oak door looks good in black!


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

> My 8 red oak door looks good in black!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"I see a red (oak) door and I want to paint it black."

No orange shellac anymore, I want it painted black.


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## Foghorn (Jan 30, 2020)

> My 8 red oak door looks good in black!
> 
> - Foghorn
> 
> ...


Ha! I see what you did there.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

IF that is all the shop has for Lumber…that is what I use. Right now, I am using Ash.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

I haven't given up hope for RO, cheap and sturdy and I have a hell of a lot from buying nearly 100 solid RO dresser/desks from a local auction a few years back.










If anything, great for jigs! 8^)


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## Foghorn (Jan 30, 2020)

> I haven t given up hope for RO, cheap and sturdy and I have a hell of a lot from buying nearly 100 solid RO dresser/desks from a local auction a few years back.
> 
> If anything, great for jigs! 8^)
> 
> - splintergroup


Looks like a pretty darn nice desk re-use example too!


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

> I haven t given up hope for RO, cheap and sturdy and I have a hell of a lot from buying nearly 100 solid RO dresser/desks from a local auction a few years back.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That does look very nice. What finish did you use?


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

Thanks Darrel/Tony.

That table is an earlier project so you can find details there, but the basic finish is just natural danish oil.

Biggest pain of course was the oaks pores weeping oil for days. I kept wiping it off every day until I just decided "fuggit, just let it dry"

After a few weeks I just rubbed it down with 0000 wool to remove the dried swells over the pores.

Certainly as previous replies state, it's not really the wood that is the problem, it's the finish that can make/break a RO construction (even if that finish is a nice coat of black paint 8^)


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## LeeRoyMan (Feb 23, 2019)

>


That's nice splinter, 
.
.
.
but picture it in walnut!!

You could still paint it black, although I think that was a 90's deal.

In all seriousness, it does look good, Nice Work.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

Yeah, thanks!

Walnut is my bane right now, only about 4" widths with lots of steamed sap wood.
I'd love to make more with some "interesting" wood, cherry, walnut. fumed QSWO 8^)

I've got a full gallon of precat lacquer that "expires" next month, need a project that can make use of my $40 finish! 8^)


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## LeeRoyMan (Feb 23, 2019)

> Yeah, thanks!
> 
> Walnut is my bane right now, only about 4" widths with lots of steamed sap wood.
> I d love to make more with some "interesting" wood, cherry, walnut. fumed QSWO 8^)
> ...


FWIW…I have used pre-cat at least 2 months past the expiration with no problems.
But…..??


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

> FWIW…I have used pre-cat at least 2 months past the expiration with no problems.
> But…..??
> 
> - LeeRoyMan


I've done a year 8^)
Still set up hard!.

When I'd buy it (Mohawk from Klingspore), it would always be "fresh" with a 1 year future expiration. My last two gallons have had only had 6 months


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Red Plank sawn Oak.
> 
> - pontic


 One of my pet peeves. Photos on this site scaled down to the point there is no detail.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

> One of my pet peeves. Photos on this site scaled down to the point there is no detail.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy


I think it's beyond scaling and a reduced contrast as well, I posted some photos last month of some crotch walnut I milled up and they looked great even on my phone but more blah after they were here.


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

Yes, red oak seems to be a red-haired stepchild. But DS our high-end contractor has been posting some high-end cabinets with quarter-sawn red oak. Then one must look at BBQ wood Mesquite and yet we don't see any Red Oak charcoal nuggets…










Yet Alder, (for the Fridge) shall never be charcoal…


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## Woodmaster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

My entry quartersawn red oak cabinets I built two years ago.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

The one finish I hate on red oak (used on a few projects and household items) is freaking "golden oak" stain. Wayyy too 70's

Rift/quarter rules!


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> The one finish I hate on red oak (used on a few projects and household items) is freaking "golden oak" stain. Wayyy too 70 s
> 
> Rift/quarter rules!
> 
> - splintergroup


Well, the 70's were a lot more fun than now.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

> Well, the 70 s were a lot more fun than now.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy


Thinking on this, you are absolutely correct!


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## bbc557ci (Sep 20, 2012)

Generally speaking, IMHO red oak is boring. Ash is my favorite.


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

> The one finish I hate on red oak (used on a few projects and household items) is freaking "golden oak" stain. Wayyy too 70 s
> 
> Rift/quarter rules!
> 
> ...


IMO Red Oak is the backbone of woods for its cost, and durability. Has anyone ever seen an IKEA kitchen with Red Oak? Also it can be white pickled…


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## bobfromsanluis (Jul 23, 2016)

I guess it's individual tastes, here's a detail from a loft bed I built a few years ago, red oak, three coats of poly.


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## HapHazzard (Jan 9, 2016)

Shorea. It's hell to work with too.


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