# Shop lighting



## harvey4804 (Jan 21, 2011)

OK guys I need some input. I finally completed my garage rewire with subpanel and I want to drywall asap! But… before I close off the ceiling I want to install different lighting. I currently have two 4 bulb 4' fluorescents, they work okay but not sufficient enough for my 24×24 garage. I have been throwing around some ideas but would like your opinions. I'd prefer not to use tube fluorescents, jut my personal preference. So what would be ideal (cost not an issue) -with that being said, no I can't afford those new LED replacements for florescent tubes LOL
Thanks!


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## live4ever (Feb 27, 2010)

What is it about the tube fluorescents you don't like? Just curious. Color temperature is a problem for some folks, and the ballasts can be problematic with humming and/or flickering. But a lot of those fluorescent lighting annoyances have been resolved with T8s.


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## HamS (Nov 10, 2011)

The way I light my shop,24×22 is six shop lights with 2 4' tubes augmented with two hanging brooder style fixtures over the saw and one over the layout/assembly area with 100 watt incandescent (will have 27w CFL) lights to add extra light to specific task areas. I am building an arm that I can hang another reflector style lamp that will swing out to illuminate areas right over my shoulder when I am at the bench. I am in the process of changing the shop light to four of the CFL bulbs, both for efficiency and to balance the color. The only draw back to this scheme that I can see is it takes time for both the flourescents (tube and CFL) to come to full brightness, especially in the winter when the ambient temp is low before the fire gets going good.


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## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

An option to consider - -

I use track lighting with the cans pointed exactly where I want them for the various tools and work areas. My light is not even. For example, there is less light in the wood storage corner and I have good light over the workbench, table saw, band saw, lathe, etc. A couple of tools, planner and jointer, get a little less light because I don't consider really good light to be as important for them.

I have 11 cans in my 17' x 22' shop.

I use CFLs which I think are fine.

Warning - My previous shop was not heated and there I discovered that CFLs do not work well in cold weather. Since you live in San Diego, that is not an issue directed at you. Others reading this may find this comment helpful.


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## JamesVavra (Apr 27, 2009)

I was working in the basement under a couple of 60W incandescent bulbs when I planed the lighting for my new 22'x18' detached workshop. It was really dark down there, so I went a little overboard in the new shop.

I put in four 4' fluorescent fixtures with 4 bulbs each in the center of each quadrant of the workshop. On the same circuit I installed 2 incandescent cans right in the center (above the tablesaw).
On a separate circuit, I put in 9 additional cans, around the perimeter of the room (over other tools and workbenches).

With all of the lights on, it's a bit like the surface of the sun.

My initial thought was that I'd use the florescents when it was warm out and the incandescents when it was cold, but I ended up installing a ductless, mini-split heat pump so that is not really a concern anymore. Generally, I work with just the first circuit on.

James


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## Elizabeth (Oct 17, 2009)

I had the same concerns about fluorescents…I've had experiences with them buzzing, flickering, and giving me headaches. But I decided to go with them anyway, and am very pleased with the quality.

This month I had four incandescent light bulbs replaced with "new surface mounted 4-lamp (2-lamp cross section) open strip fluorescent fixtures with FO32/T8/850 5000k with high CRI (color rendering index) fluorescent lamps" (as per the invoice) in my roughly 21'x24' shop. The difference is remarkable. I have not noticed any "warming up" time needed, and it's been in the low 40s here in Oregon. Yesterday I spent three hours in the shop and did not even give the lighting one moment of thought - it was just perfect.

Here are some before and after pics of the shop lighting!


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## Ripthorn (Mar 24, 2010)

Elizabeth, after seeing those pictures of your shop, I now know what heaven looks like


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## tom427cid (Aug 21, 2011)

Wow!!! is that what a clean shop looks like? I am so jealous-Naaa,just kidding. That is a very nice CLEAN and well organized shop.
On the question about lighting I have been slowly changing over all(a couple at a time) my old style flouresent ballasts to the new style electronic ones and the small 4' tubes.There are nearly two dozen. The light output is almost double,and the cost to operate is almost half. Big bonus is there is no more heat issue with the new style ballast. Also practically all my machines have the mechanical style work lights for specific tasks.
Hope this helps.
tom


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I've tried all sorts of lighting options, and when I finally went to the 8 ft, cold weather tubes I was very happy.


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## harvey4804 (Jan 21, 2011)

Elizabeth, I must say those comparison pictures probably changed my mind.

In my kitchen I replaced a 4' fixture with 5 dimmable LED (65w eq.) recessed lights and the light quality is awesome! You would almost think that our kitchen is a showroom. If the LED cans didn't cost so much I'd probably have about 20-25 of them in the garage. I think what I might do is have a combo of FO32/T8/850 5000k with high CRI and 10-15 can lights on different circuits. One circuit for the cans along the perimeter and a second circuit for the fluorescent fixtures above the TS/workbench.


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

Home depot or Lowes…. purchase the 48" fixtures used to put in hung ceilings. They run $36-$48, have good quality ballasts that don't buzz. I just screw them up to the ceiling and encase them in 4" wide strips of 1/2" finish plywood. The plastic diffuser that comes with them distributes the light nicely and they hold 4, 48" bulbs that give off a lot of light. You can run them with just two bulbs too. I have 8 in my shop. Half of them have a toggle switch on the side so that I can turn of some if I want to.

Here's a picture of one side of my shop showing the lights.


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## Elizabeth (Oct 17, 2009)

Two circuits sounds good. One thing I do worry about is short cycle times - I'm not sure if it will hurt the lifespan of the lights in the long run if I flip them on for just a minute when I run in to grab a tool. It'd be nice to have a couple of other lights on a different switch, but my shop isn't wired that way and I didn't want to get into rewiring things. (I have no electrical background so I don't know if short cycles is something to be concerned about or not with these lights.)


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## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

My shop is 22X22 and I use ten two bulb 48" florescent fixtures. They are spaced out along the ceiling. I also have lights at some of the machines (60 watt bulbs) for close up work. I'm satisfied with the lighing. 
Its quite bright without being overly bright.


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## jerkylips (May 13, 2011)

I saw someone ask the question about color temp, but there were no responses. That was my first thought, with fluorescent tubes. Anyone who uses those have issues with stian colors, etc. - you think it looks like one color in the shop, but when you get it out, it doesn't look right?

I have 4 100 watt bulbs lighting my 3 car garage & it's actually pretty bright in there. The walls & ceiling are plastered, and I think all of the white helps to reflect the light. Not sure what your wall colors are but a coat of white paint could help too..


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

One of the reasons Elizabeth's shop is so well lit is it appears all surfaces are gloss white. I did this in my shop and there was a BIG improvement over the previous flat white. I use the flouro fixtures like Craftsman showed but I took the diffusers off as it seemed they blocked a lot of light. In my opinion you can't have too much light. If you are concerned with too bright, put them on 2 or 3 different circuts. But I'll bet you like it best with all of them on.


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

I like fluorescent lighting; I find that it provides diffuse, even lighting a lot better than any type of bulb or track lighting. My shop is 17×30 and I use 9 banks of 4' T8 fluorescent lights; no problems with hum or flickering, so far the lighting is adequate but I could probably use to upgrade some of the 4' banks to 8'.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

I had an electrical supply house look at a sketch of my shop. they faxed the plan to a company that supplied their fixtures. That place recommended 7 fixtures with 2 - 8' fluorescent bulbs in each. They said cold weather. They also wanted $750 for the fixtures and bulbs. I bought 7 or 8 used fixtures for regular 8' bulbs with 2 in each fixture and 13 boxes of used bulbs. In 10 years I have only changed bulbs in 3 or 4 lights. I think I have a lifetime supply of those bulbs and I got it all for $25. I haven't had a short cycle problem. I just come and go as I want. 
my shop is 30×40


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## DIYaholic (Jan 28, 2011)

jerkylips mentions the problems with staining under the glow of fluorescent lights. Is there a fluorescent light that eliminates/reduces those negative effects. I was planning on installing a whole bunch of fluorescent fixtures for shop lighting and for a future spray booth/finishing room. Do I need to be concerned about fluorescent lighting in a spray booth/finishing room?


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## harvey4804 (Jan 21, 2011)

Elizabeth, where did you find your lighting setup? HD?


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## mrg (Mar 10, 2010)

DIY get the daylight bulbs. The higher number and you will be fine. They are a couple dollars more but the light is closer to the spectrum of sun light.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I use 4' fixtures, 5 of them I think. They are hung kind
of haphazardly and some are covered if I roll up a door.
I buy the expensive bulbs because the light is not blue,
it's more like daylight and I can see colors more accurately.

I use various clip on lights for task lighting and have found
the halogen work lights with the 250 watt bulbs really
make for bright light when I want it.


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## ScottN (Jan 24, 2011)

Loren brings up a good point."it's more like daylight and I can see colors more accurately.".

I repainted my shop walls to a tan color to help to see colors more accurately.

As for lighting I was going to go with the fluorescent lighting for more light and tired of changing the incandescent light bulbs. But first I tried a 200 watt energy saving bulb and was impressed at how mush light it put out. So I chose to go with 200 watt energy saving bulbs. They take about 10 min to get fully bright.


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

Regarding florescents and cold weather. This morning I went out to my shop. It's 5 degrees F. here in Maine. I started the stove and the lights. The lights always come up to speed in about 10 minutes. The shop heats up about 30 min later. The lights would be bright in the same amount of time even if the heat wasn't on. The lights are bright long before the room warms up.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I think that I have six or seven 4 ft florescents. I get by with them fine. I wish that I had purchased a better fixture. I bought the least expensive that Lowes had. They have a cover and it's difficult to change the bulbs. If I had it to do over again I would still go with the florescents but I would go with a mid-priced fixture.

helluvawreck

https://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## racerglen (Oct 15, 2010)

Just replaced my old style 4 ' fixtures over the weekend with the T8 type..WOW !
Quiet, lots more light and best of all FREE !
During renos at work they pulled every fixture and were sending them and the tubes to the dump..I scored two and one of my youngest's electrician friends did the conversion Saturday.
I'm very pleased with the results.
They also come on right away, no warmup as noted above.


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## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

As I mentioned earlier, I have 10, 48" fluorecent fixtures in my shop. Each has two regular fluorescent bulbs. I like the light, but the only problem I have is that when one bulb goes out, they both start to flicker so its hard to figure out which one is bad. Its almost like they are wired in series. I wonder if others have this problem. Maybe I just have cheap fixtures.

My shop is heated so I dont have start up problems. I do find the bulbs last a long time. I hardly ever seem to have one burn out.


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## horsch (Feb 7, 2011)

I have a tall (13') three car garage that came with just three 100W bare bulbs in the ceiling. When I converted to these I was amazed. They put out the light of about a 400 watt incandescent bulb and cost about the same as a 2 tube 4' fluorescent unit and only take a minute to install. When these warm up (about 5 minutes) it is like the garage has a convertable ceiling on a sunny day. You can read more about another gentleman who used them here, about three quarters of the way down the page. That is my two cents, if you have a tall work space check them out.


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## croessler (Jun 22, 2007)

Great topic and Discussion here folks! 

I have a question; is there a way to tell if your current 4ft fluorescents are T8?


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## BobAtl (Jan 10, 2011)

For those who have upgraded from the old style 4' fluorescent fixtures to T8 types, how did you go about it? Do I need to buy new fixtures or can/should I replace the balasts in the existing ones (fixtures have 4 bulbs and are about 18 years old)? I like the number / style of fixtures, locations, etc. so what do you recommend?

I was also considering running surface-mount conduit to a set of track lights (thanks for that input, Rich) with a pull switch off one of the fixture junction boxes or up the wall from an outlet for my work bench area. And thanks for the comment about clip-on task lights, Loren - that might be my best option. Thanks for any suggestions.


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## Gregn (Mar 26, 2010)

Watching this thread on lighting I noticed that the majority of the camp is in favor of the florescent tubes. While the tube fixtures were the first choice in lighting my shop. I went with a different option after going over the pros and cons of different lighting. While finances ruled in the final decision here's what I came up with for my shop which is 12'x30'.

First was the ceiling height in the shop. While most shops this isn't a concern, for me it was with 8' ceilings. My first concern was hitting the lights with a board or something. With tube lights this is a real possibility.

Second was replacement bulb storage as storage space is limited and would be difficult keeping them from getting broke.

Like Rich I went with can lights and CFL's. I installed 18 can fixtures for about $70 plus bulbs. This was a far cheaper option. With the daylight colored bulbs this lights my shop very well even during the daytime and unfinished walls and ceiling. The comment had been made that you need sunglasses on with all the lights on. I set the cans up in 3 banks of 6 with each bank on its own switch, this allows me to light all or part of the lights as needed. As of this moment I have not needed the use of any task lighting to aid in lighting the shop or work areas near any machines.


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## racerglen (Oct 15, 2010)

Chris my T8's have a sticker inside, between the two sets of tubes.
Brightish yellow along with the Westinghouse lable.
BobAtl..Straight swap in my case, My oldest boy gets dibs on the old whiners..


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## Elizabeth (Oct 17, 2009)

*harvey4804* wrote: Elizabeth, where did you find your lighting setup? HD?

Harvey, I hired a local electrical contractor to install them - not sure what his source is but probably not HD.

My wall/ceiling surfaces are flat white, not gloss, but it does help the light levels a lot. And for reference, the ceiling is 9 ft, thought the ducting lowers that a little in some spots.


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## harvey4804 (Jan 21, 2011)

Gregn, do you have any pictures of your shop and your lights? I'm interested in that idea.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Elizabeth, Your flat white reflects a LOT more light than mine did. Mine must have been old and not so white anymore!


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## WrathOfSocrus (Sep 8, 2011)

A lot of good information here. Since you are rewiring and have the ceilings open it is far cheaper and easier to put in everything you want now instead of wish you had done something down the road. I definitely agree with making use of two or more lighting circuits. When you need extra light it is there, and when you are mostly in one spot you can save some energy and use what you need. There are a number of ways to arrange the lighting and if you have most of your major tool placement laid out, then it should be easy to figure out the placement of task lighting versus general lighting. Just be certain to have lighting on a separate circuit from receptacles. Having the lights go out while a saw blade is still spinning sounds awfully dangerous.

I am also a big fan of the CFL's and plan to replace more of my shop lighting with them. One of the best features in my opinion is that you can get light output similar to incandescent with different colors without the heat. Since they don't have the heat drawback, they can be used in many types of fixtures that would be a fire hazard with an incandescent. I have been playing with aluminum flashing and making reflectors for various other projects, including a couple xmas light bulbs with the color sanded off and plugged into a USB port so I can see my keyboard. Being able to fashion a small fixture with a large amount of directional lighting is perfect for task lighting such as at a saw or workbench. Even something as cheap and simple as a lidless box with chrome spray paint on the inside could be put to great use. Since they also have the same standard screw base bulbs, it's easy to make use of existing fixtures or salvage their parts. This could appeal to a lot of people either making your own design or breathing new life into old fixtures.

Cans (recessed fixtures) would be particularly useful if you have a low ceiling. Surface mount fixtures without any protection are likely to sustain some sort of damage if you regularly maneuver 8' boards in a room with 8' ceilings. If you have higher ceilings or generally use smaller stock then it is less of a problem. Most tube fluorescent fixtures are already designed to hug the ceiling or have a recessed fixture, as well as having options for cages or shields to protect them.

One last suggestion would be a receptacle in the ceiling. If you have any benches that aren't against a wall or if u regularly set up sawhorses in a certain spot, it can be really handy. I added one when I added receptacles to my garage and it's been very useful. I made it a GFCI to feed the rest of the receptacles in the room. I got a bunch of beat up 100' extension cords when my friend's business went under and I cut off damaged sections and made cords of several lengths about 12', 25', 40' as well as a few short ones like a 6' cord I used to replace the short cord on my drill press. I'm not a fan of battery powered tools when I have plenty of power available, and making several cords for doing tasks in specific areas is much easier than always pulling out cords in 50' and 100' increments. It's definitely cheaper and faster than buying a cordless and having to wait for it to charge. Those tools certainly have a place, just not in my shop.

Spread the general lighting out more evenly and focus on task lighting and you should be set. If you are working with an electrician, he should be able to go over your options with you and probably has catalogs with different fixture options from his electrical supplier. Cost aside I would still go with CFLs for task lighting. For general lighting either CFLs or T8's would do the job well. Make the space the way YOU want it and enjoy! Good luck!


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## harvey4804 (Jan 21, 2011)

Wrath, thanks for the info!

Tonight while I was hanging out in my garage I noticed that I had a couple of bulbs that were burned out and I remembered that the previous owner left me some spares. I installed the spares and WOW!!! Evidently he left me with some GE 80096 (F40C50/ECO) which are G12 5000k with 90CRI. So I currently have one fixture with 4 of the 5000k bulbs and the other fixture has some cheapo 3000k. I must say I'm impressed with the difference, I can't even imagine what 16 T8's would look like!!!


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## harvey4804 (Jan 21, 2011)

Here's my mess…. err…. garage. Anyway there's definitely a difference


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## jcwalleye (Dec 26, 2009)

24' x 24' shop. 6 8' dual tube T8 florescents on 1 circuit. It's great lighting with no shadows. Heated shop so no problem with startup. Gloss white paint reflects light very well and stays clean.



















The color of the picture isn't accurate. I don't know well enough how to work my camera to get it accurate.


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## handystanley (Jun 4, 2010)

Here is an article that Fine Woodworking ran:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/Workshop/WorkshopPDF.aspx?id=2771


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## harvey4804 (Jan 21, 2011)

Looks like I'm gonna get an online subscription to fine woodworking.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

When I built my shop I decided against fluorescent lights. 
I just do not like them. 
I bought expensive Westinghouse Xenon lights. ( you can see them on the pictures of my shop)
I just switched back to fluorescent as they give the most and best light for the money.( I got 8×4 footers from my work for free). 
Xenon lights gave very little and very yellowish terrible light.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

By the way , it is interesting to see how people like or really dislike the same product: My wife and I "hate" CFL. 
We stock up on traditional incandescent light bulbs to last us for a few years after they are not longer available for sale.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I use 12 - 2 tube, 8' fluorescent fixtures in my 24×48 shop with 10' ceiling. Additionally I have incandescant task lights where needed for shadow-less lighting. The lighting circuits are divided into 4 circuits of 3 fixtures each so I can turn off banks where not needed.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

I stated above that I used 8' fluorescent fixtures with 2 bulbs each. My 30×40 shop needed 7 according to the "expert". Having done that, I think I would get 4' fixtures if I had it to do over. The fixtures are a little cheaper and the bulbs are a LOT cheaper. I think you could adequately light your shop with 4' fixtures cheaper and maintain it MUCH cheaper. just something to think about. Another thing to consider is the distance the light can hang above the floor. Light needs a chance to spread. My fixtures are 10 feet above the floor.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

The older I get the dimmer the world seems to be. I have cheap 4 foot fixtures but I also have additional , individual lights where needed. If I were building another shop I would install track lighting.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Just to mention … for anybody that likes to geek out over stuff like this …..

Like Dust Collection, I'm fairly certain that there are standards, and calculations that allow you to do the math, and figure out (at least, rule of thumb) how much light you need, and how many fixtures, at how many watts, at the given distance from the work, to achieve that number of lumens.

HERE's a really rough outline of the process.

I'd be very interested in knowing if anybody used this method to design their shop lighting, and-if so-what they think of the results.


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## handystanley (Jun 4, 2010)

Instead of getting a subscription see if your library has the article. If not, let me know and I will try to find the article, scan it and send it to you.


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## agallant (Jul 1, 2010)

I have a 14*18 shop and I have two dual 8' light things(total of 4 8' light tubes) in there. It works pretty well.


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## 8iowa (Feb 7, 2008)

My Upper Peninsula "Workshop in the Woods" has both 4' T8 bulbs and incandescent bulbs. I believe that seeing true colors is very important in a woodworking shop. I also have six windows and additional windows in the double doors. I agree that white walls and ceiling enhance the lighting in the shop and help to reduce shadows.

When shopping for fluorescent bulbs select those with the highest color rendering index (CRI). "Cool White" bulbs, although cheaper, are a poor choice. The electronic ballast fixtures are more expensive, but are superior to the older magnetic ballast types due to the fact that they operate at a very high frequency, thus no hum, flicker, or strobe effect.


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## harvey4804 (Jan 21, 2011)

Today was a busy day! I was able to install and wire 4- 6" can lights for the laundry area. I also installed and rough wired ceiling boxes for 8- 4' T8 fixtures. Sometime this coming up week i'll be installing and wiring 12 more can lights around the perimeter. Then I can finally insulate, drywall, and paint!

Thanks for all of the help and input!!!

Now…. where can I find good priced 4' T8 5000k CRI 90+ lamps? CFL's too!


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## harvey4804 (Jan 21, 2011)

Here's a bad picture of the cans I installed for the laundry area.


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## harvey4804 (Jan 21, 2011)

^^^^^ excuse the mess…. there's a remodel going on LOL


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## Gregn (Mar 26, 2010)

Harvey here's my blog the Electrical journey. 
http://lumberjocks.com/Gregn/blog/22162


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## harvey4804 (Jan 21, 2011)

Thanks for the link Gregn

OK, I'm done with the lighting. This is what I did… I have 4- 6" can lights along the north wall perimeter, 4- can lights on both the East and west walls, and 2- cans along the south wall above the garage door. I also wired the ceiling to have 8- 4' T8 fixtures.
I gotta find my "good" camera and take some pix! Next on the list to do… insulate, drywall, paint, THEN install the T8 fixtures. I'm gettin there. Hopefully ill be choppin wood for long awaited projects before march… I hope LOL!


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## WorkTheWood (Oct 30, 2011)

@NBeener:

In Wood Magazine's book: "How to Build a Great Home Workshop", they had a great section on lighting. The advice in the book was that you should aim for an overall ambient level of 75 foot-candles with florescents.

To achieve this, they recommend you use three 2-lamp, 40-watt, 4′ florescent fixtures per 100 square feet *. *****

Boy am I glad I went with this setup as the lighting in my shop is AWESOME!


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## JimF (May 20, 2009)

Harvey4804, I've had good luck getting bulbs from 1000bulbs.com over the internet. Don't know how their shipping cost would be to the West coast, they are in Dallas area and I pay about $10 FEDEX ground shipping. Anyway, you can select the CRI, K, etc. They also have CFLs, LEDs, halogens and incandescents at reasonable pricing. I bought a case of 25 4 ft T-8 bulbs, 5000K and CRI 94 for less than $100 delivered. I haven't installed the fixtures yet, but I'm putting up 12 4ft 2 bulb fixtures in a 935 sqft garage/shop to replace 4 T12 2 bulb fixtures. It's dark in there now when the doors are closed.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

One thing to watch is that if you are putting in fixtures - 
You want to avoid T12 (1 1/2 inch diameter).
Energy legislation is pushing everyone to T8 (1 inch) 
By the way the number after the T is how many eighths of an inch the diameter is.

T12 lamps of some form will comtinue to be available - but the Majority of T12 colors will disappear.
This can be a mixed blessing as woodworkers - 
Those who are using the High CRI 5000K lamps will be unaffected.
High color rendering is exempt.
However Cool White, Soft White, Neutral etc… those will no longer be manufacured nor imported after July 14, 2012.
I attached a summary out there - - the law was passed by the DOE in 2009 to take effect 3 years later - so it hits July THIS YEAR.

http://nuwnotes1.nu.com/apps/clm/eventcalendar.nsf/0/6feae9ce87dcb7968525770a0074d8ea/$FILE/Lighting%20phaseout%20optimized.pdf
There is also this tool which is a little cumbersome but you can look at what you buy today that might be impacted, not just Fluorescent but Incandescent, and Halogen reflectors etc. And the table shows you the replacements - but it is only Philips Products.
http://applications.nam.lighting.philips.com/legislationcalc/search-results/?years%5B%5D=2012


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## timbit2006 (Jan 6, 2012)

If you want ridiculously bright lights that double as a heater, Halogen lights work the best. I haven't seen the sun in a while, but from what I remember my shop is brighter than it. Halogen are notorious for leaving shadows so added track lighting is a must.
I have four halogen fixtures 600 watts each. They total 20 amps.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Wow, I just came across this thread and reading/seeing so many different lighting setup is a real joy. I love how Elizabeth showed us the before/after images of just what improved lighting and bright white walls can do. Jim is correct that our age surely dims the world for us, I feel that way ALL the time. Also, I noticed Rich's comments about using Track-Lighting and aiming at specific work areas.

I have six double 75w 8ft T-12s plus three 300w Halogens in my shop (built 2002 and same bulbs still work well!), so it is reasonably well lit. I use the Halogens mostly in the Winter for heat (like Tyrone) here in Texas. BUT I want more! ** I just RE-discovered some old track lighting in our shed (from our previous house) and now plan on using it for task lighting in the shop. Thanks Rich!

SOME EARLY IMAGES OF MY SHOP:


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

*WorkTheWood*: Thanks much. I'm already doodling about my new/next shop. I WILL follow those guidelines !


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Hey Beener,
Looks like Lou has found a good reference source for lighting. I am wondering aloud here and remember when I put a pair of T-12 40w 8ft bulbs up in my garden shed. Once the temps dropped into the 40s they would NOT start. Once I replaced them with T-12 75w bulbs They start right up in temps a low as ~15F (my experience).

QUESTION FOR ALL: Do T-8 bulbs (the newer standard) have similar problems with cold starting? And/Or are the higher watt versions needed/required in order to start better in colder temps?


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## WorkTheWood (Oct 30, 2011)

@Mike:

Many of the electronic ballasts with T8's have a minimum starting temperature of 0 (zero) degrees Fahrenheit. I think that just about any T8 ballast will work in the cold these days.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Cool! Hey thanks Lou. If all my T-12s ever give up the ghost I won't feel so bad about replacing them w/T-8s.

Shoot, thus far all of my T-12s (six double 8ft in shop PLUS one double 8ft in Garden Shed) are going strong after 6 years. I was worried about the phase out of T-12s, but it looks like HD still carries and sells the high output 75w bulbs ONLY. I probably won't switch out until the ballasts go, one by one… But BOY! those T-8s are bright!


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## WorkTheWood (Oct 30, 2011)

@Mike:

I would wait and switch one by one too if I were you. By the way you have one sweet looking shop!


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## bravozulu (Aug 10, 2011)

When my new house was being constructed, I had to select lighting fixtures for every room. I have a background in photography and my wife worked in movies, so we knew a bit about color temperature and other variables.

For my new shop, because of the 14-foot ceiling I chose High Intensity Discharge lighting. Known as HID lighting. You'll see them every time you walk into a Home Depot. Large parabolic reflectors on the ceiling. They do make a slight buzzing noise, but that is easily dampened with stick-on foam pads used to silence ballasts in fluorescents. The light is pure white, and casts no shadows. Wood grain and color are outstanding. And these lights offer the lowest power consumption of any fixture.

I wouldn't consider them for ceilings lower than 12-feet. Bulbs last forever.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

The T8 electronics have better starting - because they generate a better High Volt pulse.
The T8 lamp still will swirl until it gets warm.  In general the T8 (4 footers - 32Watts) want to be around 25C (77F) keep in mind this is the LAMP temperature not the shop/room temperature.
So if you have a colder shop - if you use a fixture with a plastic lens/diffuser or enclosed fixture like you see in colder weather parking garages - the E-ballast will start it and it will be warm enough inside the fixture.
In all the fluorescent lamps there are "Standard"and Energy Saver versions (GE = Wattmiser Philips is Econ-o-Watt Sylvannia Super Saver (SS))
The energy saver versions - save energy but are harder to start.
8 foot T12 - 
Slimline (one brass pin on each end) comes as a 75 Watt Standard and a 60W Energy Saver
High Output (Black plastic recessed contact on each end) is 110Watts Standard 95 Watts Energy Saver

8 foot T8 are predominantly Standard wattage, but energy savers are available ($$)
59Watt standard and 51 Watt energy Saver

4 foot T12
40W standard 34Watt ES
4 foot T8 
32 W regular then 30, 28, and 25 Watt energy savers

One down side to the new electronic ballasts is that they have a far shorter life than the old magnetic ones.
Just cant kill a big transformer vs. degradation of the electrolytic capacitors in the new ballasts.
Most electronic ballasts only carry a 5 year commercial warrantee. Residential use will likely see ~10 year lifespans.


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## curliejones (Mar 12, 2012)

I'll get to the lighting in a second, but first - HorizontalMike - I would appreciate info on the orange saw horses in bottom photo - I have 4 I bought 33 yrs ago and cannot understand why they are just beginning to wear out already. Mine were made by Hirsch and called the "Iron Horse" and I cannot find that they still make them. I have not seen any that look like yours in my search, so please?
Shop lighting - I'm trying to refine my plan for the new shop and so far I've bought , 12" in diameter white reflectors ($10 ea) that screw into a socket ($2 ceramic is the plan) and accept a standard a-base bulb. I'm using a couple in the old shop and one has a splitter (Y) to accept two bulbs. I'm using 60W equivalent CFLs in these. I'd like to add a couple of 4' flourescents but I'm hesitant b/c of ballasts quality. I've seen youtube videos where a guy professes it worth it to change the ballast on a brand new shop light to a 5-yr Advance ballast to keep from having to fool with it a year later. Most of the reviews for Home Depot and Lowe's shop lghts rate about 2.5/5 stars, unimpressive at best. I read one reviewer who stated how he discovered the hard way that his 1-2 yr life expectancy for ballasts was greatly improved when he started using an outlet surge protector. I found an interesting demo on youtube where a guy was showing how surge protection prevented blowing flourescent tubes and CFLs. The instant-on electronic bulbs have some weaknesses besides warm-up time, specifically electrical surges from nearby storms or unclean power supply from the POCO. I posted some pictures of the reflectors in my blog a while back if anyone wants to see what they look like. They have a high watt rating (maybe 200) so big CFL bulbs won't be a problem. Right now, I'm thinking these reflectors every 8 ft with splitters and CFLs will be the general lighting, but I've been pricing 4 ft flourescents with high quality ballasts and cannot justify the $85 each fixture for commercial quality. Decent strip lights run around $35, but a $15 ballast and $10-$15 for a pair of high quality bulbs approaches that, as well. I simply don't want to do this more than once and want no retrofit in a couple of years. I figure the A-base bulb approach will make for an easy switch when LED bulbs get reasonable in price. - Meanwhile, maybe the surge protector idea will help fellow-LJs.


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## roofner (Feb 24, 2012)

Don't buy the cheap 4ft shop lights but buy the 4 ft quickstart shop lights you won't have the noise and flicker.
Twenty dollars in stead of the ten dollar fixtures.


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## aaroncgi (Dec 27, 2012)

In my 20×24 garage/shop, I went with eight 45w CFLs (though C in this case really shouldn't stand for compact!). The price has gone up about $5 per pack of four, since I purchased them about nine months ago:

http://www.amazon.com/ALZO-Photo-Light-Bulb-Daylight/dp/B0015DIOWW

I find the color rendition very good. Although there was some minor buzz when I first connected them, I don't notice it now, so it's either dissipated, or I have just gotten used to it. The noise was somewhat intermittent to begin with, and my wife claims she never heard it at all.

I used standard ceramic sockets on round electrical boxes. I created custom reflectors around the bulbs using 16" plastic planters and foil tape. The lower edge of the reflectors sit a bit lower than the tips of the bulbs, which should help them from being hit. I created wood risers in an upside down 'U' attached between my rafters, so that the lower edges of the reflectors sit even with the bottom of the rafters. I also linked the majority of the risers with a crosspiece to more easily run, hide, and protect the wiring (huge improvement compared to the previous owner's wiring job!). All lights are currently connected to a single switch, but I may add another one at some point. At only 360 watts total, I'm not worried about it.

I plan to get some pictures as soon as I get my table saw assembled instead of strewn across the floor in pieces.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

FWIW, the lower power "Econo-Watt" bulbs are not worth crap because they will fail to start in cold weather, period. Had to replace several with the 75w versions just to get them to start. And I am NOT talking really cod temps, just around 32F or so, remember I live in south Texas.

@curliejones, I think I responded to this on another thread or so. anyway, Those sawhorses were a gift ~11yr ago for helping a friend move from TX to Chicago. Have no clue if or how to replace.


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