# Table Saws Injuries Study



## Robert12 (May 29, 2017)

Hey everyone again,
I think that injuries while woodworking is a big topic so I created another infographic related to injuries while using table saws.

Image is too big, full link:
http://www.sawinery.net/infographics/table-saws-injury-study/

Let me know what do you think about it in comments.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

Always interesting


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

I don't agree with the stats.I myself have experienced kick back and cut off flying back ,Ive been hit in the belt area twice very hard.
Never even close to being cut by the blade.But I do use a magic wand to push wood past the blade when needed.


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## SignWave (Feb 2, 2010)

I will echo Aj2 and say that I'm skeptical that 85% of tablesaw injuries involve blade contact and 15% do not. The only thing that makes sense to support these numbers is a reporting bias. By that I mean that the vast majority of tablesaw injuries that don't involve blade contact are somehow left out of these numbers.

I've never had blade contact, but I've experienced kickback, dust in the eyes, etc. I'm not trying to introduce a counter-argument about the real risks of tablesaw injuries, btw. These are items that are introduced by the graphic itself.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Hi Robert Welcome to LJs
Interesting , the stats are pretty much what I expect.It's kind of interesting that many of the post on Ljs that involve injuries start something like this first a horrible photo of missing finger(s) and then they say"I was one of those guys that said I've used a table saw for 30 years without one scratch why would I spend all that money and buy a saw with a safety mechanism?" Then they say" now I'm buying a SawStop."


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Another worthless 'infographic'


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

The Consumer Products Safety Commission did a study of table saw injuries treated in an emergency room in 2007 and 2008.. They found that 88% were related to contact with the blade.

Perhaps, some of those who doubt the statistics could share their source for data and the results.

This says nothing about how often kick backs happen but only about the injuries severe enough to go to the emergency room. Maybe there are a lot of kick backs but the severity of the injury is low. There is no way to really tell as I can not find any statistics.


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## TravisH (Feb 6, 2013)

He referenced his data source but he could have made it clearer by changing a word.

"Over 30,000 table saw injuries occur annually" is a true statement however for those hung up on things "Over 30,000 table saw injuries are reported annually" would clarify and make sure the average reader understands how the conclusions were derived.

As pointed out of course their is bias (if you are trying to use a different data set) as the data is based upon reported incidents (those that souhgt medical intervention). Of those that went to an ER, Urgent care, doctor etc…. 85% of the injures are do to blade contact nothing too complicated about it.

Maybe just take the link for what it is… risk based assessment based upon reported incidents. Just evaluate ones techniques, practices, and tools and make changes as you see needed.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

I have to disagree with your stats. Some are just estimates not supported numbers and some are unexplained. You state that 75% of the missing blade guard cuts were because the user removed the guard, Who the hell removed the other 25%.LOL I am one of your statistics, cutting a really small piece off a board a couple days ago and in reaching for the cutoff my thumb touched the blade. 11 stiches! I have had kickbacks that have never been reported as have most all TS users, if it don't require emergency room attention then it never makes the stats.


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## JackDuren (Oct 10, 2015)

> I don t agree with the stats.I myself have experienced kick back and cut off flying back ,Ive been hit in the belt area twice very hard.
> Never even close to being cut by the blade.But I do use a magic wand to push wood past the blade when needed.
> 
> - Aj2


Never is a funny word when it comes to a table saw….


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## SignWave (Feb 2, 2010)

People are more likely to go to the ER for serious table saw injuries than for non-serious table saw injuries. That makes sense to me.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

> I have to disagree with your stats. Some are just estimates not supported numbers and some are unexplained. You state that 75% of the missing blade guard cuts were because the user removed the guard, Who the hell removed the other 25%.LOL I am one of your statistics, cutting a really small piece off a board a couple days ago and in reaching for the cutoff my thumb touched the blade. 11 stiches! I have had kickbacks that have never been reported as have most all TS users, if it don t require emergency room attention then it never makes the stats.
> 
> - papadan


There are all sorts of situations where the guard gets removed by someone other than the user. For instance, the user's coworker who removed the guard earlier in the day. Or the user's boss, who removes all the guards from his job site saws because they get lost, stolen, or broken.


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## DirtyMike (Dec 6, 2015)

looks like a power point a 7th grader put together, and for that, im out.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

> People are more likely to go to the ER for serious table saw injuries than for non-serious table saw injuries. That makes sense to me.
> 
> - SignWave


 Yes, this makes a lot of sense and also based on the statistics the most serious injuries are caused by contact with the blade.


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## SignWave (Feb 2, 2010)

> Yes, this makes a lot of sense and also based on the statistics the most serious injuries are caused by contact with the blade.
> 
> - Redoak49


We are in agreement, then. It certainly makes sense to me that injuries caused by contact with the blade are likely to be more serious than those that are not caused by contact with the blade.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

Jonah, most of this is about homeowners, nobody but me touches my tools. I removed the guard because it is a miserable design that does nothing but get in the way. My splitter is out of line with the blade and the guard is mounted to the splitter. No splitter, no guard. I thought I had and old guard off another saw to use on this one but couldn't find it and can't afford one right now. My Bad!


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## SignWave (Feb 2, 2010)

> <snip> I removed the guard because it is a miserable design that does nothing but get in the way.
> <snip>
> - papadan


This is mentioned briefly in the NIH article (link). I don't know what kind of saw you have, but my saw also has a poor design for the blade guard, and did not come with a riving knife or splitter. I would be very happy if mine had a better design for the guard that was also easier to remove and reinstall.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

In an ideal world, table saw mfg would design a reasonable blade guard that people would be less likely to remove. However, this would cost money and be passed onto the user. Would you be willing to add $50 to the cost of a saw for a better guard?

When we complain about poorly designed saws or guards, it comes back to the consumer and what they are willing to pay. Rather than pay for the guard, people seem to want to take the guard off and say they will be careful enough to avoid injury.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Table saw guards are legal devices, not safety devices. I tried to use mine when I got the saw but one day left it off for 15 years. About 3 years ago I tried using it again, promised myself I would use it for a month. I spent more time taking it on and off than using the saw. If it were an actual safety device, removing it would never be necessary. Ditto for a splitter. Now a riving knife would be the shiznat but my saw won't accept one.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

> In an ideal world, table saw mfg would design a reasonable blade guard that people would be less likely to remove. However, this would cost money and be passed onto the user. Would you be willing to add $50 to the cost of a saw for a better guard?
> 
> When we complain about poorly designed saws or guards, it comes back to the consumer and what they are willing to pay. Rather than pay for the guard, people seem to want to take the guard off and say they will be careful enough to avoid injury.
> 
> - Redoak49


I've got a Ridgid saw that I bought in 2000 and the only time my guard comes off is to use a crosscut sled, otherwise it's always on and never gets in the way. The one I had to take off is connected to a rivving knife on a brand new Ryobi. The knife does not line up with the blade and I didn't want to shim it out. the guard is just 2 pieces of plastic that connect to the knife. Very poor design.


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## Robert12 (May 29, 2017)

For the ones who disagree with the stats, it is NEISS stats not mine.
This is what reported and thats the stats you work with, even if it may not be accurate.


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

9.5 million table saws in the u.s.
321.4 million population in the u.s. as of 2015.
321.4 million divided by 9.5 million table saws=33.831

theres a t.s. for every 33.831 people in the u.s.???


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## GR8HUNTER (Jun 13, 2016)

who cares :<))


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> For the ones who disagree with the stats, it is NEISS stats not mine.
> - Robert12


*Research reported in this publication was supported by the National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases of the National Institutes of Health under Award Number K24 AR053120.*
[...]
*The content is solely the responsibility of the authors and does not necessarily represent the official views of the National Institutes of Health.*

And are guestimates based on a small sample size.

Rather than delve into the details on how those numbers are derived here, see:
Table Saw Injury Numbers in Perspective (Popular Woodworking Magazine)

Original referenced article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4154236/
A quick look at the papers "Methods" and "Conclusions" says volumes.

Cheers,
Brad


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## SignWave (Feb 2, 2010)

> For the ones who disagree with the stats, it is NEISS stats not mine.
> This is what reported and thats the stats you work with, even if it may not be accurate.
> 
> - Robert12


I did not intend to respond negatively about you personally, so please accept my apology if it seemed that way.

Reading the article, the authors state that the data was filtered for the word "trauma". If you include that in your graphic, I think the graphic would represent the data from the article more accurately. Leaving it out is definitely related to my questioning of the data being represented by the 85% of injuries being caused by blade contact.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

Let us be very clear….

Some will believe the data and some will not

Some use guards and most do not

Some believe that they can completely prevent accidents by paying attention and some do not

The probability of changing anyone's mind with the statistics is 0.00001%


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## Robert12 (May 29, 2017)

> Let us be very clear….
> 
> Some will believe the data and some will not
> 
> ...


Well if I can change someone's mind and maybe prevent the next accident, I did my part


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## ScottM (Jul 10, 2012)

Sorry, but these "infographics" are pointless! All you're doing is generating traffic for your site.


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## Crazyg (Jun 19, 2017)

I have cut 3 of my finger off do to stupidity and not having the guard and not taking the time to make sure I had clear access around the saw, I figured it's the last cut and a small one so I rushed and paid for it. I have worked in the tooling Industry for over 29 years and always stressed safety and did listen to what I preached my advise to all leave the guard on better to have your fingers then not to


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Statics are worthless. Only serious injuries that involve a hospital visit are reported. There is no accounting of minor injuries that do not require emergency care. I'm sure many on this forum have had a kick back, but never reported it to anyone. In the 50+ years I've been using saws and dangerous tools, I have never had a serious injury, but one and that was on a bench grinder. I stupidly was wire brushing a chain saw chain and the wire brush grabbed the chain out of my hand and whipped it around. That required several stitches. Other than that, I keep focused on the machine I'm using. At 82, I haven't noticed any lack of attention when using dangerous tools. When I do, that will be the time I hang up my shop apron and head for the TV.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> ... and always stressed safety and did listen to what I preached …
> 
> - Crazyg


Apparently not and I'd wager it was only one time of many that you disregarded safety. Safety is a choice. Luckily I had a good shop teacher with the prerequisite missing finger that he cut off by putting his hand in the path of the blade. I also had the good fortune to see a Unisaw throw an 8' oak board across a shop and through a wall. Makes an impression.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

I love it when people think their anecdotal experience is somehow a rebuttal of real data.

It's like a person who drives a car for 20 years without an accident thinking that they could never get in an accident that is their fault because clearly they are incapable of making any mistakes behind the wheel.

Get over it, people. Power tools - especially table saws - are incredibly dangerous machines. Anyone who says otherwise is flat wrong.

Also, being an asshole to someone who is just trying to help illustrate some of the problems is unbecoming of the usually excellent LJ community. Saying "sorry" as if that makes it okay to be a complete jerk just makes it worse.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

Statistics are worthless


> ?


??

The world runs on statistics like baseball, football, quality control and everything else. You just need to understand how they were obtained and what they mean.

What do these mean? Serious injuries from a table saw that required an emergency room visit were mainly caused by contact with the blade. It certainly does not mean that kickback injuries never happen. It means that 5-6 times more serious injuries are caused by blade contact than all other causes.

Work Safely…..


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Why is this in the Woodturning forum?


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

> someone who is just trying to help
> - jonah


This could be questionable.
Is he trying to help or just bring people to visit his site? 
I believe it's the latter myself. JMO


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> Why is this in the Woodturning forum?
> - TheDane


I was wondering the same thing… I guess if you are trying to use your table saw as a lathe, then you are just asking for injury 

Cheers,
Brad


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

> Also, being an asshole to someone who is just trying to help illustrate some of the problems is unbecoming of the usually excellent LJ community.


Using language like that isn't exactly becoming either.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> I love it when people think their anecdotal experience is somehow a rebuttal of real data.
> 
> It s like a person who drives a car for 20 years without an accident thinking that they could never get in an accident that is their fault because clearly they are incapable of making any mistakes behind the wheel.
> 
> ...


If you think power tools are "incredibly dangerous" then you have never been in any real danger. Trust me, they are mildly dangerous. Driving to the store is far more dangerous.

Also the infographic guy is a fake review site. This is subtle spam to drive traffic to his site.


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

The study for which this guy's presentation is based has been argued about on LJ's before. The data fits what I see regularly as an ER doc in a busy tertiary center; I regularly see pt's who have tablesaw related injuries to their hands; I've only ever seen one person from a kickback related injury.

All the argument here over statistics because they don't fit your limited personal experience is a bit ridiculous. It's basically like saying that smoking is safe because I smoke and haven't had any health problems yet.


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## Robert12 (May 29, 2017)

> I love it when people think their anecdotal experience is somehow a rebuttal of real data.
> 
> It s like a person who drives a car for 20 years without an accident thinking that they could never get in an accident that is their fault because clearly they are incapable of making any mistakes behind the wheel.
> 
> ...


Fake review site? Spam to drive traffic?
I just shared the page where the infographic exists, there are no ads or anything there.
Fake review site? How did you get to this conclusion?
Not everyone reviewing tools is fake or spam.
Do you think I created this whole infographic just to get you to a page without any ads or something?

You better think before you talk next time.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

We can discuss any topic on LJ but this is getting ridiculous.

There are some good posts here and I understand different points of view. But the squabbling and insults are not needed and if this goes on Cricket will shut it down.

And the OP's comments in his last post were not needed and will inflame everyone. As a newby here and beginner woodworker he come on here to lecture people on a topic that is always sensitive. What did he expect for a response?

I am out of here…..


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

> someone who is just trying to help
> - jonah
> 
> This could be questionable.
> ...


Thanks for taking my comment completely out of context.

There is value in explaining data in visual ways. I don't know why people ascribe some sort of malice to the original poster.


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## Carloz (Oct 12, 2016)

> I have to disagree with your stats. Some are just estimates not supported numbers and some are unexplained. You state that 75% of the missing blade guard cuts were because the user removed the guard, Who the hell removed the other 25%.LOL
> - papadan


LOL all you want. A blade guard is not a guaranteed safety. A contact with a blade can happen even if the blade guard is in place.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

Interesting comment that you can contact the blade with the guard in place. I think it would be difficult but suppose that if you tried you could stick your fingers under it.

However, I seem to be wrong as about 31% of the injuries due to blade contact were with the blade guard on the saw. I really wonder how that happens…stick your fingers under the guard?

All that said, in general blade guards are poorly designed and difficult to use. On mine it is impossible to see where the blade will contact the wood. I think they design them to encourage you to take them off.

A question for everyone, if someone designs a good blade guard are you willing to pay extra for it? The Shark Guard is the best I have seen and it is $175-225


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## TomOhio (Jun 19, 2017)

45 years in the shop myself… I can think of half a dozen significant kickbacks, but never injured by one. I didn't like the design of my saw because I had to cross the "kickback zone" to reach the switch, so I rewired it to put it left of the blade.

The only saw injury I ever got was when I was ripping 1-by material about 2 inches wide to do table leg glue-ups. Without an outfeed table, I was pushing the workpiece through the blade by hanging my hand over the fence, then lifting it out after the cut. I got in a hurry, was thinking about some other measurement… and when I was removing the workpiece, I lifted and started pulling it back but came back too low and stuck the end of my thumb right into the blade. Thirteen stitches and about 8 weeks until I could get back into the shop. Luckily, the cut was parallel to my thumb and not across it, so the blade passed between the capillaries and nerves so there was little blood and less pain than you'd think. Ugly injury, though, and it made me much more careful. Strictly user error.


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

i just want to say

I LIKE BACON!!

proceed


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

> If you think power tools are "incredibly dangerous" then you have never been in any real danger. Trust me, they are mildly dangerous. Driving to the store is far more dangerous.
> 
> Also the infographic guy is a fake review site. This is subtle spam to drive traffic to his site.
> 
> - Rick M


See, this is why you people need to pay more attention to data. If you did, you'd know that driving to the store is at least an order of magnitude less dangerous than operating a table saw. Unless your store happens to be located in Kabul.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

All good points of views ,except the bacon one.
What if the stats are acurate maybe these injuries are happening to the new Woodworker.A lust to work wood from internet videos and diy shows.
I wonder how many are hurt in the very first year of owning a table saw.Thats why kick back injury are low.
I always looked at low powered job site saws the most dangerous.Maybe we need more tablesaw safety videos.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

From the data, 68% of the injuries were on a cabinet saw.

It is too bad that the data says very little about experience. It only says that about 76% of the injured had used the saw 10 or more time in the last year.


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

Not trying to high jack your thread or take away from it but can we get some answers in this thread. 
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/226601
I'm just thinking we can help complete the data
I think it's like most studies they are what they want it to be. Kind of like drug studies companies only use ones that favor them.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

Not to rain on your parade, but you're not going to get anything remotely like data on an internet forum. You will get anecdotes. The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

> All good points of views ,except the bacon one.
> What if the stats are acurate maybe these injuries are happening to the new Woodworker.A lust to work wood from internet videos and diy shows.
> I wonder how many are hurt in the very first year of owning a table saw.Thats why kick back injury are low.
> I always looked at low powered job site saws the most dangerous.Maybe we need more tablesaw safety videos.
> ...


This is not about saws, but I once had a neighbor who bought his first snow blower. The very first time he used it, he stuck his hand in where it wasn't supposed to go and lost a few fingers. I'm not sure if he also had a saw.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

> The study for which this guy s presentation is based has been argued about on LJ s before. The data fits what I see regularly as an ER doc in a busy tertiary center; I regularly see pt s who have tablesaw related injuries to their hands; I ve only ever seen one person from a kickback related injury.
> 
> All the argument here over statistics because they don t fit your limited personal experience is a bit ridiculous. It s basically like saying that smoking is safe because I smoke and haven t had any health problems yet.
> 
> - Manitario


A kickback would have to be one hellava kickback to cause someone to go to ER. Usually the result is a scratch at most and a torn shirt. I cut myself all the time on sharp tools or knives and don't have to go to ER. A band aid is all that is needed. I cut myself last month by pushing my thumb into a band saw blade. It bled profusely, and I dripped blood all over the place. I just put a couple of band aids on the cut, changed them a few times and now it is all healed. I considered going to ER because the cut was deep and long, but decided it wasn't worth the trip.


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## JackDuren (Oct 10, 2015)

> The study for which this guy s presentation is based has been argued about on LJ s before. The data fits what I see regularly as an ER doc in a busy tertiary center; I regularly see pt s who have tablesaw related injuries to their hands; I ve only ever seen one person from a kickback related injury.
> 
> All the argument here over statistics because they don t fit your limited personal experience is a bit ridiculous. It s basically like saying that smoking is safe because I smoke and haven t had any health problems yet.
> 
> ...


Kick backs happen from time to time and can lead you in the ER…

i know this for a fact…...

If you need more input I'll be glad to share….


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