# Trayvon



## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)




----------



## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

No comment


----------



## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I'm with Roger.


----------



## vipond33 (Jul 25, 2011)

Perhaps it's time we started to comment.


----------



## Bogeyguy (Sep 26, 2012)

Why no comments? I agree with vipond. The covers make a profound statement.


----------



## rdlaurance (Mar 28, 2009)

Ditto… vipond and bogeyguy… only through dialogue can social progress truly be made… it IS what being CIVILIZED is all about, though mankind as a whole seems to be lightyears from being 'civilized.

I will add that 'I AM TRAYVON', as well!


----------



## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

The sole creation of the *American Media* machine.

BTW, don't ya'll know that *ALL* USA citizens are African Americans.
********************* sapiens (aka humans) originated in Africa, where it reached anatomical modernity about 200,000 years ago and began to exhibit full behavioral modernity around 50,000 years ago.*


----------



## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I'd actually love to have some dialogue on the subject with my fellow woodworkers, but it would be wayyyyy in violation of the forums rules.


----------



## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

I'm with Charlie, a subject that violates the rules.


----------



## littlecope (Oct 23, 2008)

*"A house divided against itself cannot stand…"*


----------



## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Personally, I don't think that it would do any good to discuss this on Lumberjocks. It raises a lot of strong feelings all the way around. However, I'm not saying that it shouldn't be discussed in the proper place which probably is not on the internet at all.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


----------



## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)




----------



## eao2012 (Jan 14, 2013)

This subject would get out of hand really fast. It's not just politics, it involves race as well and would turn a ton of people off. We all agree on enjoying woodworking so lets just stick with that.


----------



## madts (Dec 30, 2011)

I find it absolutely ludicrous that we live in a society where you are allowed to kill somebody, just because you say you were threatened. Mr Zimmerman call the police and they told him to back off. Instead this guy goes looking for trouble, instead of walking away, and letting the cops do their job.

To me this is a discussion that we should have on just about any media that is available. Can you imagine getting popped by your neighbor because he felt threatened by your loud table-saw. Just a matter of time before that happens.


----------



## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

Trayvon is a sad story. Hope it never happens again.


----------



## littlecope (Oct 23, 2008)

*"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."*


----------



## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*"...I find it absolutely ludicrous that we live in a society where you are allowed to kill somebody, just because you say you were threatened…."*

You do realize that the POLICE do this all of the time to the citizenry. And since the citizen is now dead, they cannot rebut the officers' practiced response that they "felt" threatened.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States_2013


----------



## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

got this from my sister in law.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Another view.


----------



## zonkers (Aug 18, 2010)

This is not the place for this. This is the place to escape this. Our work shops, Lumber Jocks, Both. A place to shut off being reminded of the evils of society if only for a little while.


----------



## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

sorry brotha .. but the coffee lounge is the off wood working topic thread


----------



## murch (Mar 20, 2011)

Deep down, people know what would have been the outcome of the court case had the skin colours
of the young men involved been reversed.


----------



## zonkers (Aug 18, 2010)

Dan, with all due respect your post referring to the tea party & republicans is political. To perpetuate the theory that all who have that particular political viewpoint puts them on the on the wrong side of the issue is in it self discriminatory.

Again, no offence intended!


----------



## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

Deep down, people know what would have been the outcome of the court case had the skin colours
of the young men involved been reversed.

*2nd this*


----------



## palaswood (Aug 9, 2013)

We have to admit that none of us were there on that fateful night, and can not say what really happened or how events truly unfolded. But I can see where Spike Lee and Dwayne Wade are coming from to participate in these cover shots, they both have sons and I'm sure have said to themselves "This could have been MY son". So they want to show (by dressing in gray hoodies like Trayvon that night) that we cannot jump to conclusions about someone like Zimmerman did. I feel that discussing this in our families and communities is the most respectful thing we can do so that situations like this will be few and far between.


----------



## littlecope (Oct 23, 2008)

*"With malice toward none, with charity for all…"*


----------



## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

*An undated personal photo of Trayvon Martin wearing a hoodie was displayed by protesters and sold by merchants on hoodies, T-shirts and keychains, prompting the family to trademark slogans using his name.[232]*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin


----------



## cutworm (Oct 2, 2010)

Amen on that Dan'um


----------



## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

I can see where Spike Lee and Dwayne Wade are coming from to participate in these cover shots, they both have sons and I'm sure have said to themselves "This could have been MY son".

*2nd this*


----------



## mporter (May 5, 2011)

Not to be a total idiot- but what race was zimmerman? I didn't follow the case.


----------



## murch (Mar 20, 2011)

To me, a total outsider (tell me to eff off cos it's none of my business, I don't mind, maybe I should ) the U.S. looks utterly racist.


----------



## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

murch +10 
At least one political party is just that, and the other party is stuck in reverse reacting to that racism in old outdated fashion. Of course I am talking about outdated clothing fashion and NOT politics…

*;-)*


----------



## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

*Hi, Murch,*
As just one of millions in the United States of America , I can honestly say that we're NOT all racists ! 
I have two sons and two nephews that I pray for daily, that no harm comes to them as they walk innocently down the streets. 
As a father, I can only imagine how terribly Treyvon's parents have been hurt by first losing their son, and then seeing Zimmerman walk away as a free man. This is NOT right in any sane person's eyes !!

Eventually, Zimmerman will pay for his ignorance.
The fool should have left the scene as soon as 911 told him to do so !
Rest in Peace, Treyvon.


----------



## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

Trayvon on ebay









Trayvon Martin socks


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Is this a form of racism? Could the baby be named Messiah if it was white? There are lots of babies named Jesus…why not Messiah?


----------



## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

wouldn't call it racism … however it was a Tennessee judge


----------



## cranbrook2 (May 28, 2006)

Justice has been served !!


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

If I'm not mistakened weren't the monkey trials held in TN? Until now I had never considered TN a backward facing state? Maybe I need to reconsider…


----------



## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

Pulaski, Tennessee is the birthplace of the KKK


----------



## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I'll just say this:

Zimmerman was acquitted because there was insufficient evidence refuting his version of events to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that a crime was committed. That same principle of reasonable doubt, which is central to our U.S. system of justice, has kept countless accused criminals of all races out of prison for a long time now.

What galls me to no end is the the fact that some people seem to believe that if one agrees with the Zimmerman verdict, one also agrees it's okay to shoot any unarmed African American kid in a hoodie who looks suspicious to you.


----------



## PineChopper (May 21, 2012)

Why the racist subject?


----------



## roman (Sep 28, 2007)




----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

From what I got out of all the testimony the only mistake Zimmerman made was not following the instructions of the 911 dispatcher. Everything went downhill from that point.


----------



## PineChopper (May 21, 2012)

The news didn't tell you that Martin was high either. 
Why do you think he went to buy Skittles?
Why do you think he had issues with being aggressive?
This whole thing should have been local news for one night.

At any rate, I'm here for the woodworking.


----------



## madts (Dec 30, 2011)

If the news didn't tell us that Martin was high, how do you know?
He bought skittles because he likes skittles!!
The normal reaction to being high is to say PEACE BRO.
It should be on all the media all the time.

If you are here for the woodworking, why are you commenting on this thread?


----------



## eao2012 (Jan 14, 2013)

*Madts * don't speak unless you know your facts. Toxicology reports showed that Martin indeed had marijuana in his system at the time of the incident. He also (through facebook posts and twitter references) had been taking "lean" (a drug combination that includes cough syrup, soda and candy all mixed together). The autopsy also showed severe liver damage that is consistent with typical long term abuse of "lean". Do you find it a coincidence that a long time user of this drug combination was buying 2/3 of the ingredients to make it but was just going to enjoy the skittles and watermelon with his blunt? I dont think so.


----------



## madts (Dec 30, 2011)

And that Justifies shooting an unarmed person. I still want to know where you get these facts when the news did not report them.


----------



## eao2012 (Jan 14, 2013)

Again, do your homework. I am not getting this from Fox News, it is from research and common sense.

The toxicology report showing he was high was allowed to be used as evidence in the trial since Zimmerman suspected he was on drugs which is what he told the police on the phone. I watched the trial and saw that, did you? The official autopsy report which shows THC in his system and the condition of his liver is available here

Here is a picture of his facebook post showing his interest in making lean.



















Yea, an unarmed person bashing Zimmermans head into the concrete. What would you do in that situation? Let him keep bashing your head into the concrete until you blacked out and hopefully he would walk away?


----------



## madts (Dec 30, 2011)

So you suggest just shooting anybody unarmed person that you think is high?

"Yea, an unarmed person bashing Zimmermans head into the concrete. What would you do in that situation? Let him keep bashing your head into the concrete until you blacked out and hopefully he would walk away?"

That was his testimony. The other witness was dead.


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Madts, he is suggesting that you shoot someone who is assaulting you. Again, if he had obeyed the 911 dispatcher we would not be having this conversation.


----------



## eao2012 (Jan 14, 2013)

There you go jumping to conclusions again and twisting what I am saying. I thought I made myself clear enough but I guess not. If a guy on drugs was on top of me, bashing my head into the concrete and I felt my life was in danger, heck yea I am going to save my life even if it threatens the life of the one attacking me. Anyone in their right mind would.

If one was to say that Zimmerman shouldn't have put himself in the situation, you could also say that Martin should have just ran home instead of hiding in the bushes until he had a chance to jump Zimmerman. This is not a one sided story, there are faults on either side.

edit: *DKV* I agree.


----------



## madts (Dec 30, 2011)

Who knows who was hiding in the bushes. All you have is one guys testimony. the guy with the gun.


----------



## eao2012 (Jan 14, 2013)

Did you watch the trial?


----------



## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

and if the guy with the gun wasn't "the guy with the gun" then you'd be having the same conversation only with "the guy with the skittles"... isn't that why you don't want to be aggressive to begin with - who knows if the other guy doesn't have a bigger stick than yours (in this case "a gun")?

I personally find it interesting that there is a publication named "ebony" which honestly seemed to be aimed at a very specific audience… and crying about "racism". Can you imagine the riots if a publication was founded and named "Vanilla" with similar concept of speaking to a very specific audience marketing?

just saying.

bottom line - be proud to be a person - doesn't matter color, race, sex, or any other conditions that some people would like to make you believe make any difference.

Peace!


----------



## PineChopper (May 21, 2012)

madts, you'd have to do your own research. Arizona watermelon ice tea, Robitussin cough syrup, skittles and one other item that I forgot, mix them together and you have the new teenage get me high drink.
That is what Martin was buying Skittles for. It was Not because he liked them unless mixed properly.


----------



## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

You said it, PurpLev.


----------



## eao2012 (Jan 14, 2013)

Right about that, *Purp*.


----------



## madts (Dec 30, 2011)

Did Martin tell YOU what he was buying it for? Where was the cough medicine and the item you forgot plus the ice tea? I think you guys are trying to put a good spin on something really bad.


----------



## natenaaron (Jun 24, 2013)

Wannabe cop follows lone teenager at night. Calls 911 and is told to STAY IN THE CAR. Who cares what martin had in his system. Who cares what he might have been doing with the skittles. If the shooter had stayed in the car, as he was told to do, none of this would have been an issue. The teen would be alive, and the shooter would be able to live a normal life.

The shooter WANTED the confrontation. He never needed to stand his ground, plain and simple. A normal person sees a suspicious character in the hood that late, they call the cops and drive off.

I usually don't comment on political threads but this should have been a text book slam dunk for the prosecution. Someone screwed up.


----------



## natenaaron (Jun 24, 2013)

Maroongoon

If Zimmerman stayed in his car he would not have had his head bashed into the concrete.


----------



## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I'm willing to give Martin the benefit of the doubt and say he was just out walking home from the store and minding his own business. But I'm also willing to give Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt and accept his assertion that Martin turned on him and was slamming his head into the ground when he pulled his gun.

What happened is a tragedy. And while I fully support gun ownership, I'm not keen on the idea of untrained, armed citizens patrolling the streets. If Zimmerman had kept his distance as instructed by the dispatcher, Martin would still be alive. For that reason, I think Zimmerman bears a certain degree of moral responsibility for Martin's death. Legally, however, I still think the jury made the absolutely correct call based on the evidence.


----------



## Howie (May 25, 2010)

@CharlieM1958: I agree.
The prosecution is the one that blew this case not the jury.


----------



## eao2012 (Jan 14, 2013)

Like I said before, he shouldn't have gotten out of his car. But Martin should have went home instead of hiding in the bushes waiting to confront Zimmerman. You seem to forget that Zimmerman didn't even know where Trayvon was and it was Trayvon that confronted Zimmerman not the other way around.

*madts* No I don't know what Trayvon was thinking when he bought the skittles, you're right. Likewise, *nateaaron* you don't know what Zimmerman was thinking. You don't know if Zimmerman wanted to shoot Martin so you have no validity in your statement. Let me turn your statement around and day, "if Trayvon had ran home and not jumped Zimmerman then none of this would have happened." And yes, a normal person might have just called the cops and drove off. But Zimmerman was not a normal person, he was the leader of their neighborhood watch. Obviously he would be failing his duty at that position if he just called and left.


----------



## eao2012 (Jan 14, 2013)

It is ignorant to say that the cause was one sided. Both were wrong. I just get sick and tired of people saying "Oh this unarmed innocent boy got brutally killed by a wanna be cop, white guy." May he rest in piece, but you can't deny the facts behind Martins personal life. The kid was a thug. He was currently suspended from school when he was killed for FIGHTING. He was prone to violence which is just more evidence to support the fact that Martin was the one who initiated the fight. The media has twisted this story so much it makes me sick. Zimmerman, while acting stupidly to follow him, did nothing legally wrong when he decided to defend his life. You can say "I think this, I believe that," but you can't convict Zimmerman based off of actual facts and evidence because there is none to show he did anything legally wrong.


----------



## natenaaron (Jun 24, 2013)

maroongoon

You seriously buy what you are saying? I'm going to go sand something.


----------



## eao2012 (Jan 14, 2013)

Look man, what I have said was not intended to offend, but to inform. The information I have stated is readily accessible for those willing to research and find it. I would like to see how many who take Trayvons side actually watched the trial from start to finish (the actual trial, not a condensed version that MSNBC or Fox News puts together where they will only include bits and pieces of the trial that will support their political views). The facts are there whether you ignore them or not.

Maybe this is a good time to end the discussion since it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. I just encourage everyone who wants to comment on such issues to do their own research and not rely on MSNBC or Fox News to tell them what they should and should not believe.


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Here's an opportunity for Obama to adopt a couple more sons. What's he going to do with all these new sons of his? He loves basketball…pretty soon he'll have enough for two teams. Let's count together. The three (two if HMike is counting) from the Lane murder and two more from the Benton murder gives Obama 5 sons to play with. Like I said, a couple more murders and he'll have enough for two teams. Obama can play pickup games anytime he wants. Good for him.


----------



## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

I saw a news clip where the anchorman was asking WHY the Pres hasn't spoken out about the senseless murder of the Aussie jogger by those three teens last week , because they were bored. Hmmmm….maybe if and when they go to prison, they will get "bored" in a whole new way !!


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

When do you think Ebony will run Lane and Belton on the cover? I am figuring fairly soon. I am sure Wade and Lee will do a cover with pix of Lane and Belton. Great guys they are.


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)




----------



## Howie (May 25, 2010)

At least GZ was face to face. He didn't back shoot someone because he was bored.
Hoodies have become a symbol alright. One that when a person sees another person wearing one they wonder what that person is hiding or up to. Especially showing their brilliance when wearing one and it's 95 outside. But wait…they are only trying to express themselves right?


----------



## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/21/20116078-hes-turning-blue-911-caller-describes-moments-after-oklahoma-ballplayer-shooting?lite


----------



## roman (Sep 28, 2007)




----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

From Townhall.com

Obama Cannot Rise Above Politics

Aug 27, 2013It's ironic that President Obama so often carps about politics-blaming "politics as usual" or "hyperpartisanship" for everything from the lack of economic growth to joblessness to climate change-when he is the most relentlessly partisan president in recent memory. Obama is a staunch left/liberal who finds it very difficult to rise above politics and attempt to unite the country. Arguably, his very best speech, the one delivered in Tucson after the Gabby Giffords shooting, did transcend partisanship. It was an outlier.

The president inserted himself into the Trayvon Martin story in a deeply irresponsible manner. Disregarding the case's complexities (the fact that Zimmerman was clearly in a fight, the fact that not a particle of evidence suggested racial animus on Zimmerman's part, the fact that Zimmerman had alerted police to strangers of every description), the president legitimized the racial incitement tactics of Sharpton and Co. by suggesting that a son of his would resemble Trayvon. A son of Obama's might also resemble Chancey Luna or James Edwards, two of the perpetrators of the depraved murder last week in Oklahoma. That teaches us what exactly?

Unlike the Martin tragedy, the murder of Christopher Lane does appear to have had racial overtones. More than that, Lane's murder may have been conceived as revenge for Trayvon Martin. One of the killers tweeted, "Ayeee, I knocced out 5 woods since Zimmerman court!" followed by a string of expletives. "Woods" is apparently slang for white people. In another tweet, he said, "90 percent of white ppl are nasty. #HATE THEM.

"The president has not expressed condolences to the Lane family or to the nation of Australia. You might say that's not a presidential role. Perhaps. But the secretary of state has been silent, as well, and when a White House spokesman was asked about the case, he said, "I'm not familiar with it, actually".


----------



## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)




----------



## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)




----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

A list from ex-representative Walsh:

I have a dream that all black parents will have the right to choose where their kids attend school.
I have a dream that all black boys and girls will grow up with a father.
I have a dream that young black men will stop shooting other young black men.
I have a dream that all young black men will say "no" to gangs and to drugs.
I have a dream that all black young people will graduate from high school.
I have a dream that young black men won't become fathers until after they're married and they have a job.
I have a dream that young unmarried black women will say "no" to young black men who want to have sex.
I have a dream that today's black leadership will quit blaming racism and "the system" for what ails black America.
I have a dream that black America will take responsibility for improving their own lives.
I have a dream that one day black America will cease their dependency on the government plantation, which has enslaved them to lives of poverty, and instead depend on themselves, their families, their churches, and their communities.


----------



## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Youre somethin else man. You should join the CNN boards with the rest of the trolls and flamers.


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Chrisstef, it's not my list, it's a black man's list. After 150 years plus I think we need to stop feeling guilty and expect some help with the problem. What am I seeing wrong? Do you have the courage to answer me or are you a one line troll? BTW, this has nothing to do with religion or politics. It is a social problem that needs to be fixed.


----------



## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

That's quite a dream, ex-rep Walsh !!


----------



## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

I could make it 2 lines. 
If you like.


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Chrisstef, make it whatever you want…just say something. Have an opinion. Have a solution. Have anything.


----------



## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Personally, I believe if Martin Luther King were alive today, he would be mostly in agreement with Walsh's dream list. (Not saying this really relates directly to the Martin-Zimmerman case.)


----------



## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

I almost like MLK's 1967 Philadelphia speech to a middle school about 
"What is your Life Blueprint" better than the 1963 speech

Below is the last 1/4 or so….

This is 6 months before he was shot, and 2 years after the Civil Rights act.
-------------------------
And I say to you, my young friends, doors are opening to you-doors of opportunities that were not open to your mothers and your fathers - and the great challenge facing you is to be ready to face these doors as they open.

Ralph Waldo Emerson, the great essayist, said in a lecture in 1871, "If a man can write a better book or preach a better sermon or make a better mousetrap than his neighbor, even if he builds his house in the woods, the world will make a beaten path to his door."

This hasn't always been true - but it will become increasingly true, and so I would urge you to study hard, to burn the midnight oil; I would say to you, don't drop out of school. I understand all the sociological reasons, but I urge you that in spite of your economic plight, in spite of the situation that you're forced to live in - stay in school.

And when you discover what you will be in your life, set out to do it as if God Almighty called you at this particular moment in history to do it. don't just set out to do a good job. Set out to do such a good job that the living, the dead or the unborn couldn't do it any better.

If it falls your lot to be a street sweeper, sweep streets like Michelangelo painted pictures, sweep streets like Beethoven composed music, sweep streets like Leontyne Price sings before the Metropolitan Opera. Sweep streets like Shakespeare wrote poetry. Sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and earth will have to pause and say: Here lived a great street sweeper who swept his job well. If you can't be a pine at the top of the hill, be a shrub in the valley. Be the best little shrub on the side of the hill.

Be a bush if you can't be a tree. If you can't be a highway, just be a trail. If you can't be a sun, be a star. For it isn't by size that you win or fail. Be the best of whatever you are.

---------------

Pretty different than hearing about people unwilling to do jobs that are "Beneath them"


----------

