# keeping good lumber out of the landfill



## Onker (Jan 17, 2008)

Hey folks, this is my first post on Lumberjocks. I'm more Lumbernovice than Lumberjock and looking to learn about carpentry from a green perspective. I am wondering if anyone has had positive experiences with any public or commercial lumber recycling programs? For example, a good city program that collects used, weathered, rescued wood from finished housing construction projects or from old houses being dismantled, and offers it back to anyone that could make use of it? I just remembered that the last summer job I had framing a house had a huge pile of wood that I felt would be great for some kid's tree house, though it just got trashed. I'm curious if other cities have taken the lead in diverting good wood (though not returnable to the lumberyard) back to people that could use it, instead of the landfill.

Thanks!


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## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

Not here in Texas. Everyone seems to burn everything.


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## rikkor (Oct 17, 2007)

I haven't heard of such a thing in Minnesota, but it sure seems like a good idea. Especially when you see some of the projects around here made from "scrap."


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## Daren (Sep 16, 2007)

I have not heard of much of that on a municipal level, but it sounds like a good idea. I do know some individuals that are thinking your way and trying to do things about it. Waste not, want not.


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## Chipncut (Aug 18, 2006)

It kind of turns my stomach when I see dumpster loaded with lumber that someone could use, but I suppose if someone got a sliver, or stepped on a nail. I guess there'd be a lawsuit.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

unfortunately, Dick, that is exactly it - people can't take the risk of being sued.


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## Critterman (Dec 20, 2007)

I know TOH did a project in…yes Gary…Texas LOL, Austin I think, where they did the building material recycling center. People could buy the materials or if not they didnt sell it went to a recycling center, or in the case of wood made mulch out of it. Pretty cool! Wish they did that everywhere, it would be a good way to pick up some pretty good recyclable lumber. I see folks dumping stuff all the time, I just don't have the time or the storage for recyclable material…not yet anyway. You could save a heck of a lot of money that way.


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## DanLyke (Feb 8, 2007)

I just bought random widths (2"-5") of 225 bf of maple in 5' lengths and 64 bf of birch in 8' lengths for $2/bf, delivered, from a local cabinet maker. They were too small for him to deal with economically, but they'll make cabinet frames and baseboards and who knows what else for me. I'm not quite sure how I'm going to store it reasonably yet, but hopefully I'll be knocking out stuff fast enough (just moved into this house, and already *need* certain fixtures and trim) that that won't be a huge issue for long.

Craigslist rocks!

And we've got a local building materials recycling place where, two weekends ago, we bought a solid wood entrance door for $10. Needs a little love, but with a few hours of work I'd put it up against doors I've seen for $700 or more.

I think the big issue is that for the do-it-yourself-er or the hobbiest, we're willing to trade time or difficulty of setting up a cut for materials prices. Random widths means I'm going to have to do a little digging and re-design as I figure out which parts to use for a carcase, but the shop I bought this wood from is overjoyed that they're getting something back from their scrap. Getting something back means they don't have to worry about scratching every last inch from that wood, which makes it more useful to me.

Around this area (just north of San Francisco) there's also a lot of recycled redwood available, and anyone who's ever been out to "the main house" at Skywalker Ranch knows that you can do amazing things with that (despite my personal disdain for redwood which, admittedly, may be a "new growth" vs "old growth" thing).

As I mentioned, our dump has a reclaimed building supplies area, you've got to frequent it with a good idea of what you want (ie: we're looking for a few windows with specific sizes), but if you luck out there are some good deals to be found, and, a step above that, there are a number of salvage yards that deal in scrap lumber or appliances and cabinets pulled out for remodeling in this area, albeit at a higher price.

The resources are out there, Craigslist and local community message boards are great for this sort of thing, the hard part is not getting caught up in what I call "the Costco syndrome", thinking "that looks like a great deal" before you actually have a use for it and then ending up spending more in storage than you would have to buy the stuff when you actually need it.


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## TheKiltedWoodworker (Dec 21, 2006)

Dan, you're lucky because Craig's List has a lot of good users in San Fran. Some of the other sites aren't nearly as good. Take St. Louis, for example…


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## BlueStingrayBoots (Jun 11, 2007)

I cant pull nothing out of city yard. They dont allow it. Alot of exotic trees there but…I dont know. Think I need to offer manager some apple pie or cash. I'll have to make time/plan for it someday.


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## lazyfiremaninTN (Jul 30, 2007)

I love reclaimed/reused wood. I sometimes just drive around looking for new construction sites and hit them up. I have built many projects from lumber that I "SCROUNGED". I love it.


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## scottb (Jul 21, 2006)

was the practice - might still be, to just bury a lot of the building waste. Our backyard was full of presents from previous occupants (This I can blame on homeowners, not the builder, as they didn't have plywood back in 1880!) I hate seeing dupsters full of 1/2 sheets of ply and 6' 2×4s it get hauled off to the dump, or not used with an eye toward conservation. I seem to take the opposite approach and try to maximize every piece (and save everything else for later - hence a cluttered basement.

There is a school up in VT, that I'd like to take some classes at, Yestermorrow, they have curriculum around green building practices. In addition to a website, they have a blog. Might be able to get some information from them?

http://www.yestermorrow.org/
http://yestermorrowschool.blogspot.com/


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## Onker (Jan 17, 2008)

I'm learning a lot here. Burying and burning is the norm in Springfield MO too, but I feel as if a resource was readily available for anyone to use, they'd use it. I've heard of centralized operations, where wood is taken in by donation and then organized for the general public to take back to use. I wonder if the decentralized model, like Craigslist,is any more attractive for most people? It certainly seems cheaper.

It would seem the problem of organization is two-fold. Those organized and busy enough to be able to make use of marginal lumber, like half sheets of ply for example, can find more than they'd possibly hope to use. But that's generally not the focus of their business so they don't end up using that much. They're also the people that tend to know other contractors who can hook them up. On the other hand, there aren't many resources out there for one-time woodworkers to turn to for scrap, and finding it is a lot harder when you don't work with a community of woodworkers. It'd seem that plenty of weekend warriors with small projects would do just fine using the scrap that comes out of framing houses.

Thanks for the heads up everyone, and I'm going to keep researching good case studies of where communities have been able to organize more "closed loop" wood use, instead of just dumping a third of it into the landfill.


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## woodnut99 (Dec 17, 2007)

You have to do the foot work here… And often a nice "fist full of dollars".... I am always scanning for scrap' or left overs.. And often on ebay the larger lumber 'stores' often sell all their scrap' in bundle packages.. I've even given tree trimmers here in brooklyn some extra lunch money to throw me some select cuts for sculpture… NOw Back To wOrk!!! (*&*%) too much time hitting keys instead of the wood,,Arrrrgh Good luck , Your on to the source… I think everyone here respects the wood, and Is in it for the long haul… Recycle,Respect,Refurbish!!!!


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## woodnut99 (Dec 17, 2007)

By the way, Welcome to the best wood working site / forum… A ton of inspiration and knowledge here!!! I'm only a month old, and already have learned much…and have met some GREAT and INSPIRING PEOPLE / w the same bug..


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## mski (Jul 3, 2007)

We have a county internet site that has recycled things from plastic barrels to wood to Horse manure.
Iv'e gotten barrels , compost and 2'X4" ply cutoffs there.
Most free!! 
http://www.vcmax.org/


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## JohnGray (Oct 6, 2007)

I friend of mine in Kansas that raises cattle, the natural way on grass and home grown corn, takes a couple of steaks when he goes to the dump looking for wood and what not. It really works I've gone with him before.


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## Nils (Oct 27, 2007)

Here on the SF Bay Area peninsula area, we have Whole House Building Supply, which specializes in recycled lumber and fittings from houses that are being torn down to create McMansions. Because it's California, there's lots of old redwood, much of it siding (i.e., 5/8"-3/4", often painted), and a lot of Douglas Fir 2x material. They also take out cabinets, doors, windows, etc. from the buildings they demolish. Plus, they have a demolition sale almost every weekend, where people can come take stuff off of houses that are going to be demolished for a new building.

If that's the kind of thing you need, it can be a great resource.


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## cranbrook2 (May 28, 2006)

I use reclaimed wood for almost everything i build now and all i do is drive around the country side and look for old fallen barns. Most farmers just burn the old barns down so i try to get there before that happens .
I usually trade them a birdhouse in exchange for the wood.

If you do find any place that does sell reclaimed wood it,s usually not cheap.


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## grovemadman (Jan 28, 2008)

I like to hit up construction sites. One guy even helped me load some 2×4s for my most recent projects. 50% of the wood for my new shop was scrounged up. I've bagged some good hardwoods from cabinet shops that can't afford to keep all those smaller pieces around thier place… The wood is usually enough for small projects like boxes and frames. When the price is free it sounds right to me.


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## Boardman (Feb 7, 2008)

The greatest wasters of good hardwood are municipal governments. Cities are constantly cutting hardwoods, and some softwoods, from municipal properties and sadly must of it goes to landfill or is chipped into mulch. I've only heard of one city - I thinks it was Chattanoga - that held a yearly lottery for hardwood logs they had cut. You buy a ticket and then they draw the numbers to determine the pecking order of who gets first shot at the pile of logs. The city saves money by not having to process the logs in any way, plus the cash generated from the lottery. Now there's a city government with an actual brain.

On one forum I read about a guy in Chicago chasing down a city truck that had some big walnut logs they's cut. He offered them cash on the spot and they wouldn't take it - which was somewhat amazing in a city known for municipal graft. He asked if there was a city dept. he could contact to try and get some of the hardwood logs they routinely trashed…..nope. City workers had to haul it to the landfill.

Here in St. Paul, MN they're in the process of cutting down huge elms that survived the initial onslaught of Dutch Elm disease, but are now succumbing. I saw one marked for removal that must have been 4 foot DIAMETER! Clearly spreading the elm beetles is an issue, but they're only in the bark, not the wood. This isn't the best example with the insects in the mix, but it's typical of the waste that goes on. Not too long ago I drove around Pigs Eye Island - named after one of the first settlers here, Pigs Eye something, that ran an…ahem… liquor distributorship in one of the caves along the Mississippi. It's the dump area for city cut logs, and there were piles of hardwood just waiting to be chipped for mulch or fuel. What a waste.


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## 8iowa (Feb 7, 2008)

My Summer place is in the middle of the Hiawatha National Forest. For only about $20 you can get a permit to salvage dead and downed trees. Most people use this permit for firewood, however, some trees are suitable to be cut into logs and bandsawn into boards. The big problem is getting the logs out of the forest.


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## Daren (Sep 16, 2007)

"The greatest wasters of good hardwood are municipal governments. Cities are constantly cutting hardwoods, and some softwoods, from municipal properties and sadly must of it goes to landfill or is chipped into mulch."

You are correct Boardman. "Urban logging" is the answer, just not enough people are asking the question…so I have been cramming it down everyones throats for 5 years . Here is a quote from my website.

"Urban logging is a short term for the harvest and utilization of trees from an urban setting. There are trees everywhere in town, whether you live on Oak St., Elm Dr., or Washington Av., you are surrounded by trees. The harvest is ongoing, by tree services, municipalities and homeowners. Trees are also removed by developers for urban expansion. It is very important to use these trees instead of letting them go to waste. They are being burned or hauled to the already overburdened landfills.

In the case of public lands removal without utilization is not only a waste of a natural resource , but a waste of tax money. I will give an illustrative example. 2 city workers spend a day removing a dying oak tree from the park and hauling it to the waste treatment plant and setting it ablaze. Later the same week, one of the workers is instructed to make some repairs to the park pavilion and build 3 new park benches. The worker drives 10 miles to the lumber yard for wood to do the job, driving past the still smoking pile of wasted wood on his way."

See I just did it again.


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## diggerdelaney (Feb 18, 2008)

i agree with this recycle of timber (sorry lumber as you across the water from England) i found a company that had just gone out of business had dumped a load of king size pine head boards 2 car loads later wood pile at home looks healthy now to build something

HAPPY PLANING


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## Tinkerman (Feb 19, 2008)

I just came across a pilot project that is just getting off the ground in the Montgomery County, Maryland area (Washington DC area) that is attempting to tackle just this issue. I'm the newsletter editor for the Montgomery County Woodturners ( http://montgomerycountywoodturners.org/default.aspx ) and am planning an article on this effort in our upcoming newsletter (March 2008) based on my interview with Chris Holmgren, proprietor of Seneca Creek Joinery. You will be able to access the newsletter and the article when it is posted around March 1st.

As background, in 2006, Chris Holgrem attended a waste wood symposium which sparked his interest and efforts in pursuing the urban waste wood issue. Subsequently, Chris was asked to present his vertically integrated approach of utilizing locally available resources at a Washington Council of Governments (COG) Waste Wood Utilization Workshop. This was a watershed event for Chris and resulted in the formation of the Community Woodlands Alliance (http://www.aiura.org/cwa/) which is a National Capital Region Demonstration Program that was funded by a $100,000 startup federal grant. The basis for this initiative is grounded in the reality that of the over 200 million cubic yards of urban tree and landscape residue generated each year in the US, 15% is classified as un-chipped logs. If these logs were sawn into boards, they would theoretically produce 3.8 billion board feet of lumber which is approximately 30% of the hardwood lumber produced annually in the US. In Chris's words, "there is no such thing as waste wood". Chris is on a path to harvest this waste in a variety of ways all the way from firewood, to milled lumber, fuel to provide heat for kilns, to finished woodworking projects. Stay tuned for more details as I finish this article.


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## Daren (Sep 16, 2007)

Great info Tinkerman, do keep us posted. I am personally very interested in the subject. If there is anything I can do to help, feel free to contact me.


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## Boardman (Feb 7, 2008)

As an example, I got this from a guy who worked for the Wisconsin DOT. A big walnut was cut in a land clearing for a new road. He got permission to come back after work and chainsaw the trunk. I got this slab, the sister slab with a 35" feather, and several others. The entire log was going to be burned the next day.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a130/boardmanWI/IMG_1327.jpg


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## scottb (Jul 21, 2006)

funny how one needs permission to save someone from having to bring stuff to the dump.

There is, or was a company nearby that does architectural salvage. Doors, cabinets, hardware, etc.. I"m thinking that this business could definately be expanded upon, maybe my next house will have a big barn or two, so I can start up my own wood salvage biz!

just imagine selling burls by the barnfull…


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## Tinkerman (Feb 19, 2008)

As promised, the March 2008 edition of the Montgomery County Woodturners - MCW Newsletter in now available on our MCW website with my article on Seneca Creek Joinery, Chris Holmgren and his efforts through the Community Woodlands Alliance to reclaim the hardwood logs destined for the landfills in the Montgomery County, Maryland and Washington DC area. Check out the article on pages 16-19 in the March-2008 MCW Newsletter located at:

http://montgomerycountywoodturners.org/Newsletters.aspx

I think you will find it an enjoyable read and a vision of what is possible.


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## rikkor (Oct 17, 2007)

Tinker… great article. That is one active woodturners club. And Seneca Creek: talk about living the lifestyle!


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## saddlesore (Oct 17, 2007)

That's a beautiful slab, Boardman! What a find. It burns me up when I see waste like that. Makes me want to get involved on the local level to get some programs in place to mitigate this kind of waste.


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