# Questions for woodworkers about crowdfunding and earning income



## bennu500 (Oct 10, 2013)

"Hello all, thanks for checking out my post. I apologize in advance that I have to be a little vague and coded in the questions. I have invented a product that I think is pretty interesting. I do not have any intellectual property protection for it yet so I will not be able to give out much detail.

The product itself is not very useful without lots of add-ons, accessories, and complimentary products. This is where you all come in. I would like to get an idea for how many people know about crowd-funding (i.e. Kickstater.com) and if there is any interest in a sort of market place where woodworkers could build and sell complimentary products for my invention. Think of it as a sort of woodworking app store. My product would be like an iphone and your products like the apps.

If you would not mind taking a couple minutes and answering 11 questions on a survey that I set up I would appreciate it. By taking the time to complete the survey this will help me to determine if there is any interest in moving forward with the costs and time to getting patents and setting up a kickstarter campaign to try and raise the funding required to put the product into production and setup an online market place where woodworkers could list items for sale to generate income for themselves.

Thanks in advance for your time.

The survey can be found here:

Take the survey


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## MarkwithaK (Sep 12, 2009)

I'm sorry, did I read that correctly? You invented a "product" that in and of itself is not very useful?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I know we're supposed to trust you, being on LJ for 5 days and all. And the information is almost complete, only lacking any detail. Were do I give my credit card #.


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## bennu500 (Oct 10, 2013)

You gotta love forums. The first people to reply will always be the ones with nothing good to say.

Yes, many products in this world are not very useful without other parts to make them fully functional. How useful is a car rim without a tire? Or a light bulb without a lamp? Sure, you could argue you can use those products for other uses alone they were not intented for. Same with my product.

Am I asking for anyones credit card? Nope. Am I asking for any money? Nope. Am I asking if people have any interest in possibly making money on the side. Yes. And how am I doing that? By checking to see if people know about certain things. Namely crowdfunding. And by seeing if people are willing to demonstrate their interest by taking the time to answer 11 questions. Which would probably take less time than posting negative replies to a person who is just looking for some feedback. But some people just can't help being negative. And it's ok, I expected to get some of those.

For the people who are taking the time to answer the questions, THANK YOU! I am getting some good information.


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## Oldtool (May 27, 2012)

Can you spell Ponzi?


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Smells kind of phishy.

You're about as forthcoming as a pound of elephant snot.

"If you would like to see the results of this survey please enter your email address. After about a month or two of collecting results I will create a report of the tallies and some interesting responses and send them to you. I will only use the address you submit for that purpose and only one time. You can expect to see the report in about 30-60 days from the start of the survey depending on how many people respond. Survey launch is 10-10-13."

I think they want your email address, Oops.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

your probably right, but unfortunately we live in a world where you stop to help a little old lady with a flat tire, and the next thing you know your in a ditch with a cracked skull and your wallet and car missing. Now there is a chance this thing is legit, if it is you'll find you'll do a whole lot better NOT coming across as a scammer. I'm not suggesting you are, I'm just suggesting it leads one to believe there is that possibility.

For the folks who did answer it. Well…..........that's why scammers continue on.


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain..harvesting your email addresses…to sell to spammers.."


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## bennu500 (Oct 10, 2013)

I'm sorry you all have been scammed in the past and feel you have to project those experiences on everyone. Did you notice I made the fields for email optional? Had I not put the option for people to be able to see the results I would have been slammed for that.

How is this a ponzi scheme? Is the Apple App Store a Ponzi scheme? I'm not asking for any investments here. This is a hypothetical scenario to see if there is any interest for people to have a place to sell their products they make from home or at their shop.

I said I could not give out much detail because I do not have a patent. Why bother gathering information to see if something is worth pursuing if I'm just going to give the idea away to everyone where someone with the means to create it could just take the idea and run with it?

As for having to wait a couple months that is so some information can actually be gathered first. Or would people prefer they get a report if results before the survey is actually taken? I don't want to spam anyone with daily results so figured one email of results giving people 60 days or so to come across the survey and give some input is not unreasonable.

To anyone who feels I am out to scam people or harvest email addresses…would I spend all the time trying to respectfully respond to all the negative criticism? There are much easier ways to get email addresses. And are woodworkers email addresses more valuable than people with other interests?

How about this, if you are truly skeptical about me or the survey but the idea intrigues you send me a PM and I will send you MY phone number so you can call me (block your number if you want) and we can chat generally about what I am trying to do and why I am asking the questions I am. I won't discuss actual product detail at this point though.

For the record, I do appreciate all these posts. I get how it looks. People who are familiar with crowd funding will probably understand why I am asking the questions I am. You don't just put a project on kickstarter.com and it is instantly viewed by millions of people. You have to bring your own traffic to the site. That is why only a small percentage of projects successfully achieve their goal. So before I go through all the trouble I figured I would see if I can gauge what level of interest something like this would have. And it's challenging to be able to give enough detail to explain the concept without giving away the farm so to speak.

Even though I am only getting negative replies currently they are better than no replies. It keeps me from having to shamelessly bump the thread. I don't want to do that. I administrate a popular jetski forum and am well aware of how the newbies are scrutinized.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Why don't you start by telling us what is "crowd funding"? You have mentioned "anybody who knows about crowd funding", yet here you are asking us to take your survey for something many of us have not heard about.

No one here wants to steal your invention, but we don't want to be scammed either.-


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## bennu500 (Oct 10, 2013)

Thanks, that's good advice. I had thought about doing that but figured it would make for too much introduction before getting to the request. But I am seeing that it probably would have been a better route to go.

So here is my official restart.

Here is a summary of crowd funding. For people looking to start a company or develop a product but is not able to find funding the traditional way they can try crowd funding. Basically you create a project page on a website like kickstarter.com or indiegogo.com. You outline what you are trying to do and how much you need to complete the project. People then decide if they want to pitch in and help you get started.

But it's not as simple as you give them free money so they can become rich off their business. The project owner has to provide benefits for each pledge level. Say for $1 I will email you and personally thank you. For $5 they will send you a cool sticker of the company logo. For $50 they will send you one of the worlds best whatever they are making. And for $2000 they will send you 30 of the item and get first shipping so you have a chance to resell the items to the general public. And so on and so forth.

So you get something of value for the amount you decide to contribute. More often than not it ends up being more like pre sale orders. The company just needs a way to have the money up front to design, build and ship the items in bulk so it is actually cost effective enough to be profitable to begin with.

So what I am doing with my post is to see if there is enough interest for me to warrant spending money on a patent and trademark and the time into setting up a campaign. They are a lot of work. You have to get people to visit your page. The people don't just find it.

What is different about the product I would like to sell and where woodworkers come in is that my product is more versatile with accessories and add-ons. So part of the business I would start is a website where customers who bought my product could buy products from you all that are designed to be compatible with my product. So yes, I want to make money with a business I would try to start…but I need you all to make money selling products designed to make my product more useful. My success would mean the success for many other people.

This really is an honest request for very basic info. If people are not interested and I get little response to the survey then I will know not to bother spending the time and money on this project and I will move on to other inventions I have built prototypes for. But this really could be a boon for anyone. Just like when a new oil field is discovered. It's easy to think only the oil company will benefit. But the reality is that it means good paying jobs. And that trickles down to other businesses like restaurants and service businesses and such.

My thoughts are the way I would try to set up the community would be so that the woodworkers can concentrate on doing what they like and not on advertising or sales. You would just list what you have for sale and once a transaction is completed you are sent payment and an order to ship out. These details are all very high level of course. There are lots of things that need to be dealt with to ensure the process works correctly. Hence the need to raise startup Capitol to start with to get it going. But basically if I ever got to the crowd funding stage any contributions would be offset with an equal value of products or services. But at this point it's hypothetical, not looking for any money…..well, just your two cents by taking the survey. No need to give any info to identify yourself. The survey is hosted on a server I manage so no third parties have access to any data provided. I only ask for an email as a courtesy to people in the event they would like to see the final results if they are curious. Or if in 2 months there is clear evidence this project would be successful and you want notification of when I have released all the details of the product and where to find the crowd funding campaign. Those are the only things I would use the email addresses for. I hate spam just as much as everyone else. Personally I think the worst type of spam are all the "forward to all your friends" chain emails. Lol

This is the only woodworking forum that I have really posted I so far. I think maybe one other but have not checked for replies. I am learning a lot about how to best explain this request through you all.

Hope this clears up some questions on my intentions. I am looking for your input because this would require people like you to be successful.


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

I can understand you not wanting to post too much information on your project, but could you at least tell us what this thing will do or how it will be of use.


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## bennu500 (Oct 10, 2013)

The trouble is that it is so simple I am not sure why there is not anything like it already. The only way to sum it up would clearly outline it's purpose, and marketability and it would quickly spawn designs from other people.

It is so universal that to try and say what it does would be long, difficult and confusing without proper explanation of how it can do it. I am not trying to be difficult. And one lesson I learned the hard way is with a part I invented for motorcycles. I tried to market it without protecting it first. I have legal proof I researched the idea well before anyone else. But now several companies who could afford to create and market the product faster than me are making lots of money off of it. Hope you all can understand and appreciate that.

What I can say is that I bet anyone that has done any kind of woodworking products for themselves or for sale probably has it does make items that could work with this product or at very least compliment it in some fashion with a little adjustments. It's a pretty tall claim. But if I ever do get a patent and lay out the details it would make sense.

I think people will become frustrated concentrating on whether this will specifically apply to or benefit them. My survey is less about my specific product and more about what number of people would get behind a project should that project be something they can identify with or feel would be something that would benefit them. Imagine if you will the product was perfectly aligned with the types of products you already make. Is it now worth answering some questions to get an idea if a solution to benefit lots if people would be worth the time to pursue? The simple math is that if people don't feel it worth the time to answer 11 questions, it will never be worth spending money on a patent, spending time rallying people to support a crowd funding campaign, and then build a product and community sales website to sell all the products from everyone. And if that ends up being the case that is an ok answer. It will just be good to know that now instead of later having spent time and money first to find out it's going to fail.

Think of this as my market research. And you all have a chance to impact whether it's positive or negative. I hope I have clearly shown I am truly interested in your responses to the survey. If I were just in it to collect email addresses there are WAY more efficient ways to do that. Lol.

Thanks for the continued replies to this thread.


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

Have you tried "Shark Tank"?
"*For $50 they will send you one of the worlds best whatever they are making. And for $2000 they will send you 30 of the item and get first shipping so you have a chance to resell the items to the general public. And so on and so forth."*
1×50 = 50
30×50 =1,500
I realize you were just trying to make a point but I think you started in the wrong place considering you have only been on this forum for 6 days. Skeptical? Yeah the guys that have been on here for a while have seen a lot of "things" come and go.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Thanks for the explanation, there is a member here who started marketing his centipede support for plywood sheets and the like, he did very well, but he had pics of the prototype. I understand your reluctance to post your invention, but does sound like you are legit, so I will take the survey. Wish you luck.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*bennu500* if this is truly simple you need to do a patent search, or better yet, get a patent attorney to check for existing patents and the of state of the art that may apply. I have seven patents and I probably applied for three or four times that many but those infringed on other patents or patent applications or even copyrights.

Getting funding would be a waste of time/money; you need to protect your idea/invention otherwise any unprotected (unpatented or no patent applied for) product disclosure could be copied by any other company faster than you can log on to a website!


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Get your patent work done and then come back to talk to us. You've got this backwards.


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

Good point DKV


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## bennu500 (Oct 10, 2013)

Firstly, thanks to everyone who has filled out the survey and to those of you who have joined in this thread.

I appreciate all your input. But I am thinking some of you may be misunderstanding me some too. I am not trying to raise any money right now or even get people to visit a crowd funding campaign. The problem I am trying to solve here is to see if it is even worth spending the $6,000-$10,000 to get patents and trademarks before I move forward with any steps to actually raise money. I was figuring if only a few people take the couple minutes to fill out some questions then they will probably never take the time to read about a product and figure out how and if they want to contribute to a crowd funding campaign to fund a company that does not yet exist.

If I had money to burn for patents and already knew for sure that this would be a home run I certainly would have gone that route. In my mind I feel it's a great idea. But with the way the economy is at the moment, is it a good enough idea and will I be able to effectively reach enough people to make a crowd funding campaign successful? I could try and save a little money with a provisional patent, but then I have one year to try to find the time and money to market it effectively or else the patent is void and now everyone can build their own and the item is free domain. Not to mention you just spent your time and money to give everyone else a play book to jump right in where you left off.

So it's a balancing act. And when you are working to pay bills and try to better your life on the side it simply comes down to money and available time. Oh, and resources and connections are a big part too. That's why I'm trying to use the survey to feel out the woodworking community. That way I can at least take a calculated risk if I do spend money on patents.

I can only imagine how many great inventions never come to light because of money or lack of resources. Are there any patent attorneys reading this post? I tried contacting a couple here and so far no word back. If they are simply too busy to respond and don't need the work then I'm in the wrong business!...lol


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

Bennu500, there are much less costly ways to get a patent and, having an application in process is nearly as important as the patent itself as far as protecting you intellectual property!

Another site that can help

Here are some step by step instructions


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## Jeff28078 (Aug 27, 2009)

Tanstaafl. Even if you got a patent there's no guarantee anyone would want to buy it.


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## bennu500 (Oct 10, 2013)

Oldnovice, thank you for those links. I will take a look at them and see if they provide any information above and beyond similar sites I have read before. The trouble with patents is that they are more an art form than just explaining what a product does. The wording you use can make or break a lawsuit trying to defend your product later on.

I know a guy that patented the process of a self playing piano he setup to have music delivered to it from a computer. The patent attorney worded it such that any device playing any type of media file would fall under this patent. Think iPod, or any MP3 player, tablet or smartphone for that matter. He sued Apple and settled out of court. Apple now owns that patent. The press speculates that he could have been paid as much as hundreds of millions for that patent. Other people who have tried to defend patents speculate he could have been paid as little as $0. Why would someone settle for that much? Because a company with that much money can afford to drag things out longer than you can afford to pay a lawyer and eat. Seeing how he has a couple new cars, redid his music store and lives in a decent townhouse I assume he got something. However the cars and home are not anything anyone else could not afford and could probably be afforded by income from the music store itself. So maybe he did not get much. Because if you spent all your savings and then lost the case Apple would then turn around and sue you for millions to cover their legal costs. So $0 settlement could actually now essentially be worth millions…lol

Moral of the story is I am not sure I would want to try and save a few thousand dollars doing a patent myself and then pour my life savings and all my time into building a company only to find out a technicality with how I filed the patent now makes it null and void.

Oh, I wanted to touch upon the shark tank suggestion. Shark tank is probably a crap shoot if you even get picked to go on the show out of all the people who probably submit ideas. Add to that all the businesses that do get on the show are already in operation and usually have IP protection. The investors want to see how much you are making with the little resources you have put into your business so far. They then decide if they put significantly more resources into the business will it then make exponentially more money and be a good investment. If you don't have any patent already what is stopping those billionaires from just using their money and connections to out compete you? Hell, you would have just given them a personal demonstration and roadmap for how to put you out of business at your expense.


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