# Recouping costs for hobbyist tool purchases...?



## cathode (May 18, 2014)

Hi all,

I'm firmly in the "hobbyist" woodworker camp currently. I have not, to this point, sold anything for cash that I've made with my tools. I have done a ton of custom work on my house since I bought it 5 years ago, so I kind of justify spending money on tools by telling myself "well, at least you're not hiring someone to do this for you!".

With that being said however, I recently bought a new 16" jointer/planer machine and by the time I get the 3 phase converter hooked up and all the other stuff set up for it i'll probably have sunk about $5k into this tool. It will definitely get used a ton for future house projects, but I'm going to be looking for ways to put the machine to use recouping some or all of it's acquisition cost. At this point I have a pretty "full service" shop, and also a MIG/TIG welder for incorporating steel elements into wooden creations. So I'm prepared to tackle some more complicated projects, but I also don't want to necessarily be beholden to other people's time frame requirements as that would take some of the enjoyment/relaxation out of the whole deal.

Almost everyone I know at some point in the last 4-5 years has said "Hey do you think you could build an XYZ thing for me?" or "I want to make ABC thing, can you help me with that? I'll pay you!" and thus far not a single person has followed through. I'm not sure if it's more lucrative to be doing one-off assistance work like this, or if I should be focusing on making things of my own design (nice boxes, for example) and just selling them directly.

Tips or advice are welcome, thanks!


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## johnstoneb (Jun 14, 2012)

It is either a hobby or a job there is no half way. The first time you agree to do something for money you are on the time clock and you will then have deadlines, liability, customer relations. Do you really want to go there. If it is a hobby you buy the tools because you want to not because you need to and recouping the cost should not be in the equation.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

I don't do much work for $, most everything is just hobby work. They tell me what they want but that is all I will listen too. They get no choice of design or materials. As for your new 5K toy, you could advertise on Craigs list to mill other peoples lumber for them. Charge so much a Bft. you can pay for that machine without compromising your hobby status. There are lots of people out there that want to build things themselves but don't have the means to mill the lumber they need. They can still save a lot over the sawmills S4S prices and help you out too.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

I do exactly what you are talking about. I've paid for basically my entire shop setup that way. Started out making cutting boards and selling them, then moved into custom one off pieces. Largest of which is the entertainment center or murphy bed I have in my projects on here. It's a good way to offset the costs of this hobby. That being said, it will take away time from working on stuff for yourself (which my wife has been very gracious about, but has currently reached her limit). Also, you have the stress of trying to do work for other people. Timelines, work quality, etc, all have an effect on you. I'm finishing up a veneered sign right now for someone that has taken entirely way too long, which I am now going to refund part of their money because of that. If I only work on stuff for myself for the next couple years, I'd be fine with that. But I'll also take on new work on a case by case limit.


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

I've been asked a few times if I would do some custom work or private teaching and haven't taken on a job, yet. Main reason is that everyone has backed off when I quote the price. People seem to think that because woodworking is a hobby, then I won't charge for labor or teaching time. After all, I'd be doing woodworking one way or the other, right?

I've had to explain that if I am going to be building what someone else wants instead of what I want to do in order to relax and enjoy the hobby, then the amount quoted is what it is going to take. They say they understand, but I don't think they really do.

On the other hand, I have built a few things that I have wanted to build and then sold them. There's a greater risk of not selling going that route vs. the custom builds like jmartel has done, but it is more enjoyable for me. I didn't build them for money, after all, so whatever they sell for is a bonus. I still price them in a way that respects the time involved, however.

If you want to get some woodworking income, you are going to have to pick the route that suits you and your lifestyle best. With 16in capacity, I agree with papadan-you might very well be able to recoup some costs by jointing and planing wide pieces for other woodworkers. There would be less income, but also far less risk and pressure. If you want to build your own designs, then you'll have to find a market to try and sell. Custom work offers the best guarantee of income if you get a job, but also the most stress. Or you can just enjoy the hobby and count the money as an investment in your relaxation and sanity.

Best of luck with whatever you choose.


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## cathode (May 18, 2014)

Thanks guys. What would be a fair price to charge for shop time? I've seen numbers all over the place, from $15/hr to $100/hr. I think $100 is quite high, I don't work fast/efficiently enough for that, but less than $25 seems low, unless I can literally just open the door for them and walk away to do something else while they use the equipment.

I suppose the other thing that I've been a bit leery of is becoming someone's go-to consultant whenever they have a question about building anything. Professionally, I'm a software developer/systems engineer/network administrator, so I field a lot of questions from friends and family about computers and networking. And people don't seem to realize that if I charge $50 for labor to build or repair a PC, it doesn't come with a warranty that means they can call me six times a month for the next 5 years and get hours of my time for free.

I don't want to set a precedent where I build a bookshelf for someone and charge a fair price and then they bring me every single thing that needs repair until the end of time and expect me to take care of them on the house. Likewise it's equally frustrating when someone asks me for advice on a product purchase, and then ignores my information entirely. Like, why bother asking?


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## mat60 (Feb 24, 2017)

I have had a shop and always had a great time bulding what ever I wanted and learning new things for 8 years. Then I had this idea that it would be great to have a home with room for a small store and barn for a woodshop so we moved and did allot of work and cash to make it hapten. Its been no fun ever since. Its hard to make aneything after I pay my expensives. I end up making bookcases,cabinets and tables and cant spend the time to make real nice furniture because almost no one around here will spend the money when they can get cheap junk in town. 10 years later and I wish I had kept woodworking as a hobby. Now im 57 and its getting a bit hard on the body to do what I was before but this summer Im going to take on some roofing,siding and carpentry jobs because we need the money and I need to get out of the shop.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

I aim for ~$30/hr+ after it's all said and done. That being said, I usually take on work when I want a piece of equipment and judge whether or not I'll do it based off of if it will pay for that piece of equipment or not. Like for instance, the entertainment center bought me my table saw, track saw, and a sander.

Also, I only have people asking me for work that can actually afford it. I don't do cheap work with crappy materials. It's either nicer stuff or I'm not willing to put my name on it.

Easiest job I did was making a pipe-leg desk for someone. $600 for a couple of hours of gluing up a solid oak top and putting pipe together.


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

I quote people $25/hr and the cost of living here is a lot less than you Pacific Northwest guys. Even for things I've built because I wanted to and then sold, I usually figure them around $20/hr and only drop lower if the price just seems too high for what it is to me, not to someone else. Most people around here don't want to pay anywhere close to that, but I have thousands of dollars invested in tools and who knows how many hours of experience. That all factors into the price. Don't undersell yourself.



> I suppose the other thing that I ve been a bit leery of is becoming someone s go-to consultant whenever they have a question about building anything. Professionally, I m a software developer/systems engineer/network administrator, so I field a lot of questions from friends and family about computers and networking. And people don t seem to realize that if I charge $50 for labor to build or repair a PC, it doesn t come with a warranty that means they can call me six times a month for the next 5 years and get hours of my time for free.
> 
> - William Shelley


Not just you. My wife works for a lawyer and you can't imagine how much some people gripe when they get charged for everything. If it takes 5 minutes to type out an email to respond to a stupid question, the client gets charged. If someone calls and wants to just chat about life, it doesn't matter, they get billed for the time. Guess what? Your time may not be valuable, but mine is.

The only time I give that kind of assistance for free is when the grandson needs help with math homework. If my phone rings and it's step-daughter's number, it's almost guaranteed that's what is going on. She can help him with most homework, but some of the math gets shoved my way. I've volunteered to do some furniture repair for them in the past and built several Christmas presents, but don't really have a problem with them abusing my hobby.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

If you have the stomach to make fancy boxes,
go for it.

Sanding comes out to 30% of my time I reckon,
when working solid wood. Smaller, fancier 
projects require less of it.

I dunno man, if I could engineer software or
whatever you do I wouldn't even think of working
wood for money. The grass is always greener,
they say.


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## cathode (May 18, 2014)

> If you have the stomach to make fancy boxes,
> go for it.
> 
> Sanding comes out to 30% of my time I reckon,
> ...


It's like what mat60 said about it not being fun anymore; I started doing software development when I was 11 years old. It was tons of fun. It was my major activity/hobby. I could spend an entire Saturday from 7am until 11pm just writing code. When I was 23, I landed a job doing it professionally, and since then (I'm turning 29 in a few weeks), it's basically had all the enjoyment sucked out of it. Before, I spent tons and tons of time on my PC, programming, playing video games, etc. Now, it's not unheard of for me to not even turn my PC on when I get home. More likely to head out to the shop and turn the dust collection on instead


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## JCamp (Nov 22, 2016)

I haven't sold anything for years but back when I was a teen I sold a few things. They were always mostly just to fund other projects. I remember once I made nice set of shelves for a family member then one my aunts smarted off about "how much money I'd made" I told her no you really can't make money at it cause on that little job I had only made around $4 an hour. That was as a teen an I had hardly any over head cause my parents took care of the electric bills and I just supported my hobby An done a few things for them. I can do decent work when I hav the time but most ppl expect u to do a solid wood project for the same price Walmart sells china glued saw dust. They don't see the time u take to design stuff or the ungodly price of lumber plus stain and poly. To me I don't wanna do other ppls projects since I don't have that much free time. If ur dead set on it I'd suggest u limit ur self to 5 or 10 projects then reevaluate how it went


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## TObenhuber (Jan 15, 2014)

I might only be a half step a head of you. I am currently working on a commission project and don't think I will make pennies on the hour. I initially thought it could be fun and through out the process I have enjoyed it. But, I keep circling back in my mind to that fact that I will barely recoup the cost of the materials.

On one hand I am using the same materials I would normally use. Cheap O construction 2X. I like it and its cheap. With a little TLC can also look good. I drew up the design in Sketchup like normal. I have constructed the project like normal. I plan to finish it like normal. I've enjoyed the process for the most part like normal.

On the other hand, making no return on my time for someone I don't even know isn't worth it to me. I find my self willing to skimp on the quality. Personally, I HATE that part. When I work on projects for myself or my toughest client. My wife. I work for "Free" or honey-do equity which is far more valuable. If they ask for anything else big, I will have to renegotiate the price of the next project to better account for my time.

Over all, I think I will go back to building things I enjoy and trying to sell them at prices I think are fair. The turn over for the end product is MUCH MUCH slower but in the end much more enjoyable. Time in the shop should be fun for us hobbyist and the money I have made this way always felt very accomplished.

Good luck with your choice!!! It's one we all have to weigh out at some point as woodworkers.


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## TObenhuber (Jan 15, 2014)

Of course, lastly. I don't have the 16" planer. Most of my tools either say Harbor Freight, Ryobi or name brands that are from the 80's. Tools are part of the fun and don't harp on reimbursing the cost immediately. Think of it in the long run like paying off the house. Be creative and think of projects you enjoy. Build them. Then be patient and sell them how ever you know how.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

I do a lot for cash, plus what I need for our home. Currently I only work for time and materials, meaning I don't do bids. I will give estimates. Usually I come in below estimate, but occasionally above. Everybody knows what they're getting into. I'm not getting rich, but definitely paying for my tools and then some. All my commissions come word of mouth. I'd like to retire early from the fire service and do this more seriously. At that point I'll probably need to build a bigger shop and charge more.


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## TungOil (Jan 16, 2017)

Anyone considering starting a business, woodworking or otherwise, should start with a business plan. It's a great exercise to help you think through what you will do, how you will make money, etc.


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## cathode (May 18, 2014)

I would love to only work for friends and family but unfortunately none of my friends or family have any money to spend on furniture or nice looking functional items.


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## TheGreatJon (Jan 9, 2015)

As a pure hobbyist I have made the occasional buck from my shop. I don't take jobs. I just build what I want (or what my wife wants).

BUT

If I'm building something that is easily repeatable (not architectural work for your house) then I will batch it out and post it up for sale on our local buy/sell/trade and/or craigslist. I've done cutting boards, adirondack chairs, and salt and pepper shakers. When they are gone, they are gone. I don't bother going back to make more if an item was popular. The adirondack chairs were a bit of a stretch because they were so bulky. They took up a ton of space until they were gone. Luckily they didn't take long to disappear.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

I do all kinds of woodworking jobs.Gates,Tables,Display cabinets out of Mdf and plywood for a jewelry store.I also build pedestals for specimen crystal rock things.Just put your self out there you don't have to do the job if you don't want to.
I also donate my time making stuff for charity's Relay for life is one I built a spinning prize wheel.That was really fun to make.
Once I made a cover for a cats litter box.That was weird I fix drawers ,chairs,doors that have screws pulling out.When someone asks if I can do something I say that's all I ever do.
For me I make boxes,I also turn bowls and carve.Im out of wood right now so I might repurpose something I've made in the past.


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## Jimintomahawak (Feb 5, 2017)

This is a good topic. very much enjoyed reading. There are a lot of folks in my neck of the woods selling projects. A lot of cabinet shops in this area. I wonder how they can make money. Most are assembling with pocket screws and purchased drawer boxes. I would have never known what real woodworking is until we decided to build a house. I don't have the time or skills to make my own cabinets unless they were metal… but I very much appreciate the skill true woodworkers have. My dad built a black walnut roll top desk and near the end of his project dementia set in. He completed it but it wasn't up to his normal standards. He did woodworking projects for the hole neighborhood for fun. He just told them what wood would cost.
There are 4 generations of toolmaking, machine rebuilding and manufacturing men in my family. I am last unless my nephew takes it up and now I started playing with wood. So far the ride has been enjoyable. I won't be selling anything unless the wife really gets on me about the machines. 
I could handle milling for a side business but I'm not ready for finer woodworking yet.
Now if someone parked a big CNC creep feed grinder in my garage I wouldn't need a bed LOL.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I have worked in construction my whole life so I am used to making things that I sell. I have a good pension so my woodworking is just a hobby for me. It has become a self funding hobby . I make and sell small fancy boxes made of cedar with maple inlayed images in the hinged lids. I make and sell about 300 of these a year. I do take on custom work but that is not much fun. Custom work does force me to expand my technique though. (a good thing) 
I sell my product at local farmers market and festivals and street fairs. 
I have worked with my hands my whole life so I enjoy making things. (I am a retired sheet metal working foreman, aged 74)
I do not make a whole lot of $ but all of my equipment in my workshop has been paid for, ten times over.
I sell everything I make and I spend about 35 hours in my shop every week year round. If I could sell more, I would make more.
My bottom line is "life is good"


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## them700project (Aug 12, 2015)

My thought would be you can make items you can sell online or in person but not take custom requests. In doing this you are on no ones schedule but your own. I have friends that make pens and boxes on the side. They make as many as they feel like and sell what they have on etsy/ebay


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## ryguy (Apr 27, 2010)

I am a teacher and this same progression came to me. I enjoyed making things and with the time in the summer and breaks during the school year I figured I would give it a shot. I have been selling items now for about 5 years and it has been a good deal of fun. I will agree that the custom jobs can become a burden and it takes time to stay enthused, but I have finished them. I will say, that now when people ask for a custom piece I quote ridiculous prices. I do this because of my past experience and the fact that I really sell almost everything I make. I do craft shows and festivals like others, but that has been a huge learning curve too. There is far more to selling your items than just having a great product- you have "SELL" your items as well as yourself to do really well. I can't tell you how many times I have seen great items at shows but the person doesn't talk to people and they don't hardly sell anything. I even once had a pottery lady next to me who watched me all weekend and offered me a job to be her salesman. She said she was an introvert and she didn't like talking to people, but her work was first class. When she told me how much she made on the weekend it was a third of what I made. I learned that day about the value of salesmanship.

I have used the earnings from my endeavor to outfit my shop with professional level equipment (for the most part) and it has been a great journey for me. I will say that I have a wife and two kids and with the time spent in the shop my wife made me promise that each year with the profits we take a legit vacation (all inclusive out of the country) where we spend a week of unobstructed family time. Since doing that, she is very accommodating to my little side gig.

I would say give it a try and see where it goes, if it turns into a job, go back to a hobby.


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