# How much will tools made in America cost



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

In regard to the 25% tariff proposed by President Trump, I wonder how that will affect the cost of tools. If tool manufacturers start making tools again in America, how do you think the price and quality of American made tools will be? I am from the old days when American made tools were the norm. We bought tools and were satisfied with them. I wonder if tool makers start making tools here, will they be better than what now comes from overseas. There are some really fine tools made overseas with little here that can compare. It seems that we will have a lot of catching up to do if we try to revive our tool heritage.

Although I would prefer to buy tools made in America, quality come first with me and I will go with whoever provides the best, whether it be America, Taiwan, China or Germany.


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## Dutchy (Jun 18, 2012)

> If tool manufacturers start making tools again in America
> 
> - MrRon


Do you really think that will happen?


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## GR8HUNTER (Jun 13, 2016)

but my thought is will be made in America …but with overseas parts ..and the price will probably be outrageous :<((


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

Actually the U.S. imports very little steel from China!










In my opinion the steel tariff on China is a "spite" tariff for so called tech thefts!

However, some of the China tariffs are really going to hit some mainstay agricultural and food U.S. products.
Iowa, the top pork producing state will be hit hard by the Chinese tariff along with other agricultural products from many states.

Here are the top 10 states "bringing home the bacon," according to the latest U.S. Census data.
Iowa - $4.2 billion.
Illinois - $1.54 billion.
Minnesota - $1.47 billion.
North Carolina - $1.46 billion.
Indiana - $1.04 billion.
Oklahoma - $952.7 million.
Missouri - $791 million.
Nebraska - $657.5 million.

Iowa is #2 in corn and soybeans right behind illinois which is #1 in both.
If I remember correctly, these *were* both RED states.

However, I sure that some manufacturers will use the tariffs as an excuse to increase prices on their products …. !


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## crowie (Jan 21, 2013)

Just be thankful you still have some tool manufactures in the USA, Australia surely doesn't!!


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

A lot of the recently announced tariffs and proposed tariffs are more posturing than actual happenings.

Here's why…
China has one real problem - that with 1.4 BILLION people, their own economy, (the part that is not making things for North America, Europe and places like Russia), will not stand on its own and keep the country running.
They MUST keep factories that manufacture for overseas shipment, or the country will drop into a recession that some have said would be mass chaos. It might be so bad that the country could see a revolt, something that China has had too many decades of in the last century, with Mao, tribes and other terrible people.

Trump knows this, and he is pushing them since he knows we actually are the main end user of the products made in China. North America, (United States and Canada) represent fully 30% of all sales on the planet, and over half of the items made in China. They just cannot afford to push back too hard or they will have starving millions on their hands if Trump pulled it all out.

So China has done selective targeting of their response, and only about a total of 12 billion, minor compared to the 100 billion plus the President wants to lay on China. They did target red states, in the hope that politically they can use US politicians to change his mind, since they really cannot afford the trade war, and would die much sooner than the US would with an honest to goodness trade war. So he is pushing back with another 100 Billion since he knows China cannot win this.

China just cannot afford to lose overseas manufacturing. It would be the end of China as we currently know it, and millions upon millions of Chinese would die, mostly from starvation, since they cannot even grow enough food to feed their own, less alone have a stand-alone economy.

A deal will be cut, in the favor of the USA. Wait and see…


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> Actually the U.S. imports very little steel from China!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed. Same way gov has implied Huawei installs spyware despite there being no evidence. But I'm not shedding any tears for China.


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## mudflap4869 (May 28, 2014)

It is a rare tool that is " Made " in america. Offhand I can't think of any that are completely "AMERICAN" made.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

I wouldn't worry about it. I think its a non-issue.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

Contrary to what POTUS says, *nobody wins in a tariff war*, especially the everyday consumer!
I have always believed in Theodore Roosevelt's foreign policy: *"speak softly, and carry a big stick."*
The biggest stick we have is sitting in the WH! (I am sure this is either going to be flagged or removed)

My son is on dialysis, do you know how much medical paraphernalia is manufactured in China and that is one of the tariff targets. He is umemployed and he will need to fork over more for everyday medical supplies.

I feel for the agricultural producers who will probably be hurt the worst!


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## LittleShaver (Sep 14, 2016)

If China is targeting red states with tariffs, why aren't they being called out for election tampering?


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

Tennessee is right. I do, however, think Chinese prices will rise and continue to rise for a while without any tariffs. MrRon, you and I are old enough to remember we went through the same thing with Japan. In the 1960s everything made in Japan was poorly made as they were still recovering from the war. Then in the 1970s their quality improved and they really began to enter the USA, In the 1980s we began to panic that Japan was taking US jobs and their quality was becoming even better than ours! (Which was true as we in the USA really had no foreign competition after World War II and we got complacent). In the 1980s and 1990s Japan was making so much money that they began buying up American real estate by the ton, even the Empire State building! Panic ensued! Then Japan''s workers began demanding more money and their prices rose. And over time they rose to equal the USA labor rates. Japan was no longer able to swamp the USA with cheaper and better products and all was even again. Now the same thing is happening with China . . . and I now read that Chinese workers are now demanding more money. In time it will even up. Then it will be on to India and other countries to begin the great manufacturing game.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

> If China is targeting red states with tariffs, why aren t they being called out for election tampering?
> 
> - LittleShaver


Good question?
I don't think they are targeting RED states! China import a lot of agricultural products because they have a lot of mouths to feed and it just so happens that many of the RED states are agricultural economies. 
Here is a list of planned import tariffs by China and the first 25 on the list are all ag products!

*Planeman40* you are correct!
Chinese workers will get more money and our prices will increase.

In my humble opinion, when a population (Chinese people in this case) understands what free market does for their life style they will want more. 
In other words they want to be more *US*!


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## Willyeat (Jul 8, 2018)

Well I was going to buy a grizzly planer 20: with helical head 2 weeks ago and waited. Now there is a $500 tariff fee when you select to buy. so that is an approx. 25% fee added. not to get political but thanks Donald!


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

When I read "tools" I think of hand tools, still some of those made in the US. Machinery, not so much.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Well I was going to buy a grizzly planer 20: with helical head 2 weeks ago and waited. Now there is a $500 tariff fee when you select to buy. so that is an approx. 25% fee added. not to get political but thanks Donald!
> 
> - Willyeat


When it's all said and done…who's hands does the 500 dollars end up in?


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Well I was going to buy a grizzly planer 20: with helical head 2 weeks ago and waited. Now there is a $500 tariff fee when you select to buy. so that is an approx. 25% fee added. not to get political but thanks Donald!
> 
> - Willyeat
> 
> ...


Trump's.


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

> Well I was going to buy a grizzly planer 20: with helical head 2 weeks ago and waited. Now there is a $500 tariff fee when you select to buy. so that is an approx. 25% fee added. not to get political but thanks Donald!
> - Willyeat


FWIW - Grizzly appears to be attempting to source some planers from Taiwan to avoid the new China tariffs. They are resurrecting some old planer PN's (G1033 20" and G1021 15") that had been discontinued with 'new' updated models available in October according to website. The 15" has spiral cutter option, but do not see one for 20".
Best Luck.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

See? The tariffs on Chinese goods are working.

Though Taiwan is technically "Chinese", they are a break off of mainland China and these tariffs don't apply. The old Chinese companies will lose sales which will gravitate to other nations with cheap labor and no tariffs. Enough of this and China will feel the pinch and will relent. They sell a hell of a lot more to the USA and the USA to them and have much more to lose. Given time, all of this will settle down and when negotiations arrange an equitable relation the tariffs will be removed.

I am an old codger of 78 and have seen a lot happen in those years. The truth is that China's low wage advantage is eroding and will be gone. Manufacturing will then look to other upcoming countries in Southeast Asia and India in particular. I saw all of this happen with Japan from the 1960s through the 1990s and this is just a replay.


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

*When it's all said and done…who's hands does the 500 dollars end up in?
-Alaskan's for Global warming!*

to the "Clinton Foundation"


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

Who's hand it ends up in is *surely none of ours!*


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

It is misleading to claim so little steel comes from China versus Canada and Mexico.

Fact is a lot of steel goes from China to those two countries, who bring it into the US under Nafta, via Trans shipping.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

> Who s hand it ends up in is *surely none of ours!*
> 
> - oldnovice


Exactly!!


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> It is misleading to claim so little steel comes from China versus Canada and Mexico.
> 
> Fact is a lot of steel goes from China to those two countries, who bring it into the US under Nafta, via Trans shipping.
> 
> - DrDirt


Do you have some data to back this claim up?


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> *When it's all said and done…who's hands does the 500 dollars end up in?
> -Alaskan s for Global warming!*
> 
> to the "Clinton Foundation"
> ...


How so?


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> *When it's all said and done…who's hands does the 500 dollars end up in?
> -Alaskan s for Global warming!*
> 
> to the "Clinton Foundation"
> ...


It's obvious he making a joke


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> It is misleading to claim so little steel comes from China versus Canada and Mexico.
> 
> Fact is a lot of steel goes from China to those two countries, who bring it into the US under Nafta, via Trans shipping.
> 
> ...


I'd like to know more about that myself. I suspect part of it is the some auto makers in Mexico use some Chinese steel in autos that end up in products shipped to the US. As for raw steel I don't know anything about that.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> *When it's all said and done…who's hands does the 500 dollars end up in?
> -Alaskan s for Global warming!*
> 
> to the "Clinton Foundation"
> ...


Oh, totally missed it.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> It is misleading to claim so little steel comes from China versus Canada and Mexico.
> 
> Fact is a lot of steel goes from China to those two countries, who bring it into the US under Nafta, via Trans shipping.
> 
> ...


I'm confused about the steel trade in particular because Wilbur Ross (the steel billionaire in charge of trade) admitted in a senate hearing that Canada wasn't a national security threat and the US had a steel trade deficit with Canada.


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## JRsgarage (Jan 2, 2017)

> Well I was going to buy a grizzly planer 20: with helical head 2 weeks ago and waited. Now there is a $500 tariff fee when you select to buy. so that is an approx. 25% fee added. not to get political but thanks Donald!
> 
> - Willyeat
> 
> ...


How so? Do you have some data to back this claim up?

Trans shipping is a very common practice among import/export industry when quotas are exhausted


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Well I was going to buy a grizzly planer 20: with helical head 2 weeks ago and waited. Now there is a $500 tariff fee when you select to buy. so that is an approx. 25% fee added. not to get political but thanks Donald!
> 
> - Willyeat
> 
> ...


Do I have data that proves the tariff will end up in Trump's hands? Don't need data for that, he controls all aspects of the federal government, including how money is spent.

I don't know anything about trans shipping, but based on the uh, questionable stats that emerge from Trump, I do not believe it is a problem affecting national security. Just like how Trump told Justin Trudeau Canada had a surplus, then admitted he lied about it.


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## Fresch (Feb 21, 2013)

After WWII both Japan, Germany, received massive aid and retooled with new updated equipment. The U.S.A. Tried to compete using old / antiquated tools in comparison. The U.S. also had trade agreements with them. At that time any country (the losers) will control workers wage until the country gets back on its feet.
China is communist the workers can demand all they please and may get a bullet for the trouble.
China can produce great products, you have to pay for that, also they must be watched to get that quality; it is part of their business culture.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

The tariffs end up in the government hands…..somewhere. Spending is controlled by congress.

Let's keep politics out of the forum.


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

+1

*OFF MY WATCH*


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## steliart (Jan 15, 2011)

I understand the worries of all my fellow woodworkers here, but since I am from Europe and without getting into politics I'm looking things at a different angle.
Buying something from the U.S. by the time it gets to me the price is tripled and plus there is a 50% tax over that, making things very unaffordable to me.
Things need to be change from both sides on world wide trade !!!


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> I understand the worries of all my fellow woodworkers here, but since I am from Europe and without getting into politics I m looking things at a different angle.
> Buying something from the U.S. by the time it gets to me the price is tripled and plus there is a 50% tax over that, making things very unaffordable to me.
> Things need to be change from both sides on world wide trade !!!
> 
> - steliart


What kind of "stuff" do you or would you buy from the US if it was more affordable?


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## steliart (Jan 15, 2011)

> I understand the worries of all my fellow woodworkers here, but since I am from Europe and without getting into politics I m looking things at a different angle.
> Buying something from the U.S. by the time it gets to me the price is tripled and plus there is a 50% tax over that, making things very unaffordable to me.
> Things need to be change from both sides on world wide trade !!!
> 
> ...


Well I did buy quite a few things from rockler some years ago when the economic situation was much better, still much more expensive but I prefer the quality offered there than in EU. Right now slowly i got what I needed most except for machines that are a no no from US. I also believe that big chain shops like the one I mentioned if freight and taxes where much lower they might be interested in opening brunches in EU so that this big market can have access to them.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> I understand the worries of all my fellow woodworkers here, but since I am from Europe and without getting into politics I m looking things at a different angle.
> Buying something from the U.S. by the time it gets to me the price is tripled and plus there is a 50% tax over that, making things very unaffordable to me.
> Things need to be change from both sides on world wide trade !!!
> 
> ...


In many cases you are going to the US to buy "stuff" made in China or Taiwan.


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## steliart (Jan 15, 2011)

> I understand the worries of all my fellow woodworkers here, but since I am from Europe and without getting into politics I m looking things at a different angle.
> Buying something from the U.S. by the time it gets to me the price is tripled and plus there is a 50% tax over that, making things very unaffordable to me.
> Things need to be change from both sides on world wide trade !!!
> 
> ...


Yes my friend I am aware of that but as I said I was aiming for made in US products.
Since you mention China and Taiwan, you do know that many big brands made their products over there under their quality control and specifications so not all China or Taiwan products are as bad as you may think. Also just because I had dealings with companies over there when I was working as a production manager for a company, most Chinese manufacturers offer the same looking product in 2, 3 or more quality versions, so not everything Chinese is bad, many times it depends on what you are willing to pay. Anyway since this is just conversation here I think that a reputable US company even if they have some of their products manufactured in China or Taiwan, they will control the material and quality of that product in opposition to some other companies who just want the same looking thing in cheep quality.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

> In regard to the 25% tariff proposed by President Trump, I wonder how that will affect the cost of tools. If tool manufacturers start making tools again in America, how do you think the price and quality of American made tools will be?
> ...[snip…]...
> - MrRon


Just ASK Trump. He's got your back… 
.
.
....right?


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

*Just ASK Trump. He's got your back… 
.
.
....right?

-HorizontalMike-"Woodpeckers understand…"

*


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/markets/chinese-stocks-tumble-into-bear-market-with-shanghai-index-on-pace-for-worst-year-since-2011/ar-AAzlTcm


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/markets/chinese-stocks-tumble-into-bear-market-with-shanghai-index-on-pace-for-worst-year-since-2011/ar-AAzlTcm
> 
> 
> 
> - waho6o9


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

I do not know if these tariffs will cure anything except to fatten someone's pocket book!
In my opinion I think that good hard negotiation would have been better for everyone as the rest of the world is also a victim of China and showing a united front may have a position of power.

I understand that China has done a lot of things that many other countries do not do; manipulating their currency, stealing intellectual property, making fake name brand products, and so forth. The free world is some of the blame for these breaches of trade perpetrated by the Chinese as our businesses, and many other counties businesses, we're eager to make more money by reducing the cost of manufacturing. So now come the tariffs to stop this???

My questions are *HOW?* 
And who will be *HURT?*


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

Trump or Obama or Ignorance has been the gist of responses posted, including my sarcastic answer to an earlier post- "the Clinton Foundation".
I strongly suggest looking at the "history" of tariffs. Below is a Wikipedia rundown on tariffs. If you are confused or don't understand on what is going on, then at least read the history part of it, for we started as a protectionist republic up until 1945… Also, if you have some understanding economics the charts are good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I don't feel the 25% and 10% tariffs on steel/aluminum are set in stone. The rates will come down as countries reduce their tariffs. When you sell something on Ebay or Craig's list, you put a higher price on it knowing the buyer will offer less than what you ask. When the sale is complete, the buyer thinks he got a good deal and the seller gets what he wanted. This is what's happening on the world stage.


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## Bonka (Apr 13, 2012)

From American Thinker; https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/07/on_trade_and_tariffs_donald_trump_is_right_and_mark_levin_is_wrong.html


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> The tariffs end up in the government hands…..somewhere. Spending is controlled by congress.
> 
> Let s keep politics out of the forum.
> 
> - Redoak49


The executive implements what congress "controls" The president has a lot of latitude in implementation even to if they do, actually implement what congress wants. See Russian tariffs from last year.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Trump or Obama or Ignorance has been the gist of responses posted, including my sarcastic answer to an earlier post- "the Clinton Foundation".
> I strongly suggest looking at the "history" of tariffs. Below is a Wikipedia rundown on tariffs. If you are confused or don't understand on what is going on, then at least read the history part of it, for we started as a protectionist republic up until 1945… Also, if you have some understanding economics the charts are good.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff
> 
> - Desert_Woodworker


Why wouldn't one blame Trump for tariffs Trump decreed? Also, using a law about national security as the reason for said tariffs.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> From American Thinker; https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/07/on_trade_and_tariffs_donald_trump_is_right_and_mark_levin_is_wrong.html
> 
> - Gerald Thompson


Couple of problems with this "article", one American Thinker is a right wing website, and calling them "thinkers" is like calling me a "Thinker"! It just ain't so.

*First* he calls Mark Levin Brilliant? That is doubtful. This shows how right wing this website is slanted.

*Second* he agrees that all of Levin's points are correct, but he is still wrong?

*Third* He claims if Canada allowed more of our milk into Canada by removing the 270% tariff we would increase jobs! Canada is already the 3rd largest market for US dairy products. This one is really hard to understand since we dump 10s of millions of gallons of milk because of oversupply. Wouldn't Canada need to absorb all of our oversupply just to maintain the current dairy employment?

Canada has succeeded in maintaining small family farms and everyone makes money. We had 3.5 million dairy farms in the 50s, less than 60,000 now. Canadians only pay once, at the register. We pay at least twice since we subsidize our farmers and incentivize them to keep increasing production, even if it goes into pits because there is no one to buy it.

I'd rather buy from a family farm than a giant agro company.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Bait?


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)




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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Bait?
> 
> - AlaskaGuy


Opinion.


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

> Bait?
> 
> - AlaskaGuy
> 
> ...


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Bait?
> 
> - AlaskaGuy
> 
> ...


Weird, I feel the same about your posts, but I know better than to express it like that.

Flagged.


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)




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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> - Desert_Woodworker












Look familiar?


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## JRsgarage (Jan 2, 2017)

> Well I was going to buy a grizzly planer 20: with helical head 2 weeks ago and waited. Now there is a $500 tariff fee when you select to buy. so that is an approx. 25% fee added. not to get political but thanks Donald!
> 
> - Willyeat
> 
> ...


I was just curious to see if you could answer your own questions….I see that you can't. Above when you were replying to Gerald Thompson's post , I see you took an hour break to go research a reply …you can only learn so much in that time period, BUT it explains a lot!

And flagging a post because someone calls BS is just pathetic


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Well I was going to buy a grizzly planer 20: with helical head 2 weeks ago and waited. Now there is a $500 tariff fee when you select to buy. so that is an approx. 25% fee added. not to get political but thanks Donald!
> 
> - Willyeat
> 
> ...


What questions are you referring to?


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Well I was going to buy a grizzly planer 20: with helical head 2 weeks ago and waited. Now there is a $500 tariff fee when you select to buy. so that is an approx. 25% fee added. not to get political but thanks Donald!
> 
> - Willyeat
> 
> ...


As always you just want to stir the pot. Just drop it. If you continue you know the post will get closed. I guess that's probably what you want.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

The American farmer is going to lose as the Russian farmers will now supply China with soy beans and other again staples!

Sounds like collusion to me!


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> As always you just want to stir the pot. Just drop it. If you continue you know the post will get closed. I guess that s probably what you want.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy


Weren't you always defending DKV/Hinge/716/Papadon's right to post what they wanted no matter how inflammatory? It was a constant thing for you to defend DKV no matter what he/she/you said.

Yet here you are saying I should stop stirring the pot, seems a little hypocritical to me.

I like discussions and have fun until you guys start with the insults.

Have a nice day Alaska guy.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> The American farmer is going to lose as the Russian farmers will now supply China with soy beans and other again staples!
> 
> Sounds like collusion to me!
> 
> - oldnovice


That we dump food and dairy products en mass really bothers me. I know we can't give milk to people in Africa and Asia, but we should be able to do something with it. 43 million gallons were dumped last year!


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

+1 *RobS888* on the tossed food in this coutry!


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

oldnovice-

*"Time to dump subsidies, not milk"*


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> oldnovice-
> 
> *"Time to dump subsidies, not milk"*
> 
> - Desert_Woodworker


I agree, but the big farm companies have their reps in their pocket, the subsidies are rolled over in the farm bill. It sounds like the Canadian system might be something to look at since it doesn't require any subsidies.


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

*"old novice"*
Here is an article re: Canadian dairy from:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/06/trump-canada-dairy/562508/

"At issue is the Canadian supply-management system, which covers dairy, eggs, and poultry products. The system sets domestic production quotas and keeps prices stable, thereby guaranteeing farmers a steady income. And, in order to keep the supply stable, Canada blocks imports from other countries, including the U.S., by imposing tariffs-up to 270 percent on dairy products. About 80 percent of Canada's dairy farmers are concentrated in two provinces, Quebec and Ontario, both of which are crucial to Trudeau's political fortunes."










Now to OP's topic "Tarrifs and woodworking". There was a similar Forum that was shut down due to bickering and jabs yet I learned, by calling Grizzly to verify that they did add a $500 increase and I searched Festool and they had a pre sale… 
I have lived long enough that there is a good time and bad time to make a purchase. Also I am pretty well set with my wood working shop and tools. 
I give thanks.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

> *"old novice"*
> Here is an article re: Canadian dairy from:
> 
> 
> ...


They feed em cats?


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> *"old novice"*
> Here is an article re: Canadian dairy from:
> 
> https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/06/trump-canada-dairy/562508/
> ...


Further down in the article…
In other words, Canada props up its dairy industry through quotas that cap the amount produced, and imposes heavy tariffs on imports. The U.S. subsidizes its dairy industry, resulting in lower costs for U.S. consumers, but a supply glut.

"From a geopolitical point of view, the trouble with supply management is it's kind of in your face: 'You cannot enter our market. You foreigners cannot enter our markets unless you pay tariffs of like 200 percent,'" Kelly said. "Whereas subsidies are more insidious. They … probably are anti-trade in some sense, but they're not as glaring. … We do it more subtly."

Those subsidies exist in the U.S. for the same reason Canada has a supply-management system: domestic politics.
_
This is why I say the Canadians pay once for milk, but we pay twice.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> *"old novice"*
> Here is an article re: Canadian dairy from:
> 
> - Desert_Woodworker
> ...


Just for flavour…

I spent a summer on a cow ranch when I was 12, it was funny watching cats get milk sprayed on them from an udder. Not normal cat behavior, but they loved the milk.


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

Robb I love the cat story.
jbay why didn't I get a  with your post?



> *"old novice"*
> Now to OP s topic "Tarrifs and woodworking". There was a similar Forum that was shut down due to bickering and jabs yet I learned, by calling Grizzly to verify that they did add a $500 increase and I searched Festool and they had a pre sale…
> I have lived long enough that there is a good time and bad time to make a purchase. Also I am pretty well set with my wood working shop and tools.
> I give thanks.
> ...


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)




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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> As always you just want to stir the pot. Just drop it. If you continue you know the post will get closed. I guess that s probably what you want.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy
> 
> ...


You're stuck in the old days. Some of us out grew it. Mostly. To answer your question, yes.

Thanks I'm having a great day. Sorry you're not.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> As always you just want to stir the pot. Just drop it. If you continue you know the post will get closed. I guess that s probably what you want.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy
> 
> ...


So now you are the hall monitor, how funny is that!

What made you think I wasn't having a good day, is it that deflection thing Putin's Puppy does?


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

1. Yes it is. It must be the mellowing process that come with age I hear about.

2. Because you sound/sounded like your same old self.

3. I'm moving on.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

The industrial revolution is over in the U.S. has been for over 50 years. The economy of the U.S. has shifted from a manufacturing economy to a service economy. I don't see much new tool manufacturing coming back home.


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

> The industrial revolution is over in the U.S. has been for over 50 years. The economy of the U.S. has shifted from a manufacturing economy to a service economy. I don t see much new tool manufacturing coming back home.
> 
> - MrRon


+1


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## JRsgarage (Jan 2, 2017)

> The American farmer is going to lose as the Russian farmers will now supply China with soy beans and other again staples!
> 
> Sounds like collusion to me!
> 
> - oldnovice


 I share your concerns in regards to Russia, especially now that they control 20% of our uranium. But, I think it will be a while before Russia can compete with us in agriculture….and definitely not in soybeans; they simply do not have the supply or the infrastructure to meet those demands in short term. I can see Brazil and maybe Argentina going after China's demand but that would open up a void to their current mkt(buyers).

I see major headaches logistically with international supply chain but nothing that can't be addressed.


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

I realize you guy are busy siting this theory or that, but did anyone note that Jet and a couple other tool manufacturers had a 7% across the board price increase last Monday? ( I couldn't hear well, the conversation was not meant for me, so I don't know who else went up with them) Now, maybe this will occur again, but 7% is a far cry from 25! Before we all jump from the rooftops lets just watch for a while. In my mind, complaining early will accomplish about exactly as much as complaining later.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

> I realize you guy are busy siting this theory or that, but did anyone note that Jet and a couple other tool manufacturers had a 7% across the board price increase last Monday? ( I couldn t hear well, the conversation was not meant for me, so I don t know who else went up with them) Now, maybe this will occur again, but 7% is a far cry from 25! Before we all jump from the rooftops lets just watch for a while. In my mind, complaining early will accomplish about exactly as much as complaining later.
> 
> - moke


Jet and others are usually made in Taiwan, not China, so the tariffs may not be the same.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

I'm watching the Powermatic shorty for my wife, it hasn't gone up yet. Still a lot though!


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

Powermatic shorty? I just learned something new. I imagine that it will work with other leafy things than tobacco 

Is this the device that was mentioned-


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Powermatic shorty? I just learned something new. I imagine that it will work with other leafy things than tobacco
> 
> Is this the device that was mentioned-
> 
> ...


More along these lines…


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

serious oversite on my part- it was I found as a Google search.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I know I often contradict myself, but after thinking a little more about tariffs, I can see where the serious American tool user will "demand" American tool makers to produce quality tools. I for one will continue to buy based on quality, not price. Putting price ahead of quality has been the biggest reason for the spread of foreign (China) made tools. I blame the American public for not supporting the American tool industry. Dewalt is one of a few tool makers that make quality tools. Sure they cost more than what the average person wants to spend, so they go to Walmart and buy a POS drill and that's what fuels the demise of our tool industry and enhances the economy of China. China can and does make quality tools and other things also, but they are adept at making the worst kind of junk imaginable. People go out and spend a thousand dollars for an I-phone, but when it comes to tools, they buy junk. I think the tool industry can come back to the U.S. if people will start demanding they be made here. I don't use tools to make a living, but when I buy ANYTHING, I want it to be good quality. End of rant.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Who is the common denominator responding to these kinds of threads turning them political and eventually requiring Cricket to shut them down?


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## schnell (May 22, 2015)

Well I was going to buy a grizzly planer 20: with helical head 2 weeks ago and waited. Now there is a $500 tariff fee when you select to buy. so that is an approx. 25% fee added. not to get political but thanks Donald!

- Willyeat
Well it wouldn't have mattered if you would have ordered it. I ordered mine on July 3rd (back ordered) and I just revived an email saying that I was going to be assessed a tariff fee because my order was not shipped yet.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Who is the common denominator responding to these kinds of threads turning them political and eventually requiring Cricket to shut them down?
> 
> - bigblockyeti


Perhaps you could show us the political posts that got threads shut down? Could be entertaining.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Question answered.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Question answered.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


No links to threads, eh?


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

> Question answered.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


*+++++++++++++++++ 1*


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