# do you wet sand your turnings



## Karda (Nov 19, 2016)

do you wet sand your turnings, if so what do you use for a lubricant thanbks


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## DustyM (May 16, 2016)

I think the Wyoming Woodturner did a video on this. I don't have the link handy, but if you google his name and add "wet sanding", his youtube video on it will likely pop up. IIRC, his preference was a mix of either Danish Oil or BLO with some paste wax. Personally, I've wet sanded pens with a CA finish using just water with a little touch of dish soap for lubrication. I've also wet-sanded bare wood using just Danish Oil (part of the piece was purple heart, and this really helped fill the pores).

Oh, and I'll add that you shouldn't forget to put something down to protect your lathe bedways…don't want to let that slurry sit on them.


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## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

Also, Mike Peace has a video on YouTube on this subject.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Depends on what you mean by wet sand. Sanded wet green wood, no not much. Sanded projects that are dried out, yes, probably a couple hundred pieces. I apply a 1 or 2 coats of usually thinned poly, applied like danish oil, let dry several hours, then wet sand with the thinned poly to create a slurry to fill, wipe down. Apply another coat or 2, then wet sand with thinned poly or mineral spirits, depends on the fill needed. Wet sand up to 1000 to 1500 depending on the piece and desired appearance. I use mineral spirits vs water so that water does not get into unsealed areas. I also tint the poly with dye most of the time. I have some projects finished this way on my projects page.

Ive watched Mike Piece's vidoe on wetting dry wood for sanding but havent tried it yet. Im not optomistic but it deserves some investigation.


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## DustyM (May 16, 2016)

+1 for all things Mike Peace.


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## Karda (Nov 19, 2016)

thanks I'll check out the videos


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## Notw (Aug 7, 2013)

I guess my confusion would be are you wet sanding the pre finished turning or are you wet sanding in or to shine the finish? I have done a lot of turning with CA glue as a finish and will wet sand with micro mesh through the grits to bring the shine out of the finish


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

While may apply water or mineral spirits to turned its checking for scratches don't wet sand raw wood. Some folks do use mineral spirits to keep down dust while sanding.

I do wet sand/polish a finished peace with water and drop or two of dish washing soap using micromesh.


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## bigJohninvegas (May 25, 2014)

I wet sand raw green wood with water. I keep a small spray bottle, and a little dish of water handy. A little damp spray of the turned piece, and the dish is to keep the paper cleaned. It will clog up pretty fast.
I have not wet sanded a turned piece with anything else.
But I do wet sand danish oil on all the furniture pieces and cutting boards that I do. 
For that I save the last couple of used pieces of the highest grit I sanded with my pad sander. 
I then apply the oil with a rag or foam brush. Then hand sand till it starts to get tacky and wipe off the excess.
So oils of one sort are my go to finish for most things. 
For turning I have not wet sanded it. But after I apply an oil, I tend to let the lathe spin dry it for a bit. 
When I feel its dry, I go back and burnish it. A little friction heat polishes it nice. And I use a variety of items to do this. Paper towel, 0000 steel wool, white 3m pad.
I have just discovered Yorkshire grit, and Hampshire sheen. So now maybe I'm off in another direction for a bit.
Always something else to try.


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## mike02719 (Jan 13, 2008)

All my work is wet sanded. I use citrus cleaner available at the big boxes for cheap. It works great. No dust flying around. You should use wet/dry paper around, does not harm the wood for finishing and you can clean the sandpaper for reuse. When you are done sanding, spray the paper, let it set for 3 minutes and lightly wire brush off the caked up dust. Hang up the paper and use it again tomorrow. Your work piece should be ready to finish in as little as 1 hour, depending on the species.


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## Karda (Nov 19, 2016)

> All my work is wet sanded. I use citrus cleaner available at the big boxes for cheap. It works great. No dust flying around. You should use wet/dry paper around, does not harm the wood for finishing and you can clean the sandpaper for reuse. When you are done sanding, spray the paper, let it set for 3 minutes and lightly wire brush off the caked up dust. Hang up the paper and use it again tomorrow. Your work piece should be ready to finish in as little as 1 hour, depending on the species.
> 
> - mike02719


 thanks for your suggestion, I'll try some and see what happens. What brand of citris cleaner thanks mike


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## mike02719 (Jan 13, 2008)

Karda Whatever brand is the least expensive. None of them cost much, so I don't think it matters. The one I have now is HDX Citrus Degreaser. You should use wet/dry paper to have it reusable. I go up to 1200 and hard maple looks like glass. Good Luck and lets hear your success


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I sometimes use Howard's Feed and Wax to wet sand unfinished wood, especially in woods where it is difficult to get rid of tool marks. It is a citrus oil and beeswax mixture. It completely eliminates sanding dust, which is a nice bonus. Shellac will generally go over it fine but I usually wipe it down with some mineral spirits just to clean off the slurry that forms and hit it one more time with a super fine sandpaper. I have also used a mineral oil and wax cutting board finish to wet sand but it didn't seem to work as well the one time it tried it.


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## Karda (Nov 19, 2016)

I was concerned about brand because all brands aren't alike. If any will work I'll see what i can find. I do have a question about walnut. I finished mi turning scrap it as smooth as I can get it and sand but no how careful I work I still get lines in the sanding that won't cove out with anything less than scraping. Is it the way I am sanding or is that the way walnut is. Lighter woods don't seem to be as much of a problem


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Do the sanding lines appear while sanding or are they caused by the tool marks during turning? I've only turned one thing from walnut and didn't have a problem but it also had maple segments in it so that might yield a different result.


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## RichBolduc (Jan 30, 2018)

I have but only when it's stabilized pieces or hybrid pieces.

Rich


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## Karda (Nov 19, 2016)

I cleaned the out side with a scrapper no marks, after sanding marks started to appear. Here are some pics of the piece. the first 2 pic are just before finish was to be applied. The second 2 are after the surface was cleaned of marks and resanded. The ist 2 sanded to 1000 the second 2 150 then I stopped all pictures are bare wood


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Those really look like tool marks to me. When I have had marks like that on both eastern red cedar and birch bowls, wet sanding with the Howard's Feed and Wax definitely helped remove them. Because Walnut has open grain, I might try sanding with BLO. That is a traditional method for filling the grain to get a smoother finish but takes more patience because of the time it takes for BLO to cure, especially when it is cold. Start with no less than 150 grit. The slurry that forms with the BLO basically clogs the pores much like a filler that is often used on walnut and mahogany. After sanding with the BLO, burnishing with a coarse rag to generate a little heat can help speed up the curing process. This will also remove the excess slurry. I've only used the BLO slurry method once on walnut but not on a bowl.


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## Karda (Nov 19, 2016)

Ill try the BLO, will it yellow the color like it does on light wood. I don't have a picture after the scrapping but there were no marks that I could see until after i started sanding


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

It will darken it but in my opinion it makes the walnut look richer. Try it on a scrap first if that is a concern.


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## Karda (Nov 19, 2016)

I tried the BLO. it made it very dark and crapy looking the pith area was almost black so I scrapped off as much as I could and resanded with paint thinner, this worked better but still got sanding marks that got worse instead of better. I am sanding in more than I am taking out


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

What grit of sandpaper are you using? Did you work your way up through the grits? What was the highest one?


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## Karda (Nov 19, 2016)

100-150- 220-320


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Karda you are thinking these are sanding marks but like some others I think they are tool marks. After cutting before sanding try wetting the surface with ms. It helps me see tool marks and tear out I dont see when dry.

Whether they are sanding or tool marks, think about giving power sanding a shot. A little close quarters drill is $50-$60, then some pads and discs. It sure makes sanding go faster. If interested I can give info on what I use.


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## Karda (Nov 19, 2016)

alot of the marks in the last 2 pic didnt appear until I started sannding. I seem to be making more marks than I am removing this bowls is small about 5" hight and the cup is just big enough for a 2" pad.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

While I have had some success with wet sanding to remove tool markes, especially difficult marks in difficult woods, I think you need to save wet sanding for the higher grits. According to Doc Green, the rule of thumb is that if the scratches don't mostly disappear in about 10-15 seconds, then something is wrong, usually cheap or worn out sandpaper or you are using too high a grit. If as I suspect, those are tool marks, you may need to either go back and see if you can eliminate them with a tool (you said your scraper worked) or start with an even lower grit of paper. You might have to go down to 80 or even 60 to eliminate tool marks. Make sure that your hand and paper are constantly moving-do not try to put high pressure on a single spot. This is especially true if your lathe cannot be slowed down below 200 RPM so use the lowest speed possible on your lathe as you sand. If the problem doesn't go away with the current grit, step down a grit. The reason they may seem to be getting worse as you sand may be that you are getting a smoother finish as you progress through higher grits on the high spots which makes the unsanded valleys stand out even more. OSU55 mentioned power sanding can help a lot. A small foam sanding ball can be handy for sanding, especially the interior of bowls. David Reed Smith has a tutorial for making your own foam sanding balls as well as templates for cutting your own sanding disks for them. Both his and Doc Green's website have lots of great advice and techniques. Whenever I have run into a problem, their websites are usually the first place I search for solutions.


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## Karda (Nov 19, 2016)

thanks for the links I'll check them out, and go down to a coarser grit. thanks for your patience Mike


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## Karda (Nov 19, 2016)

think I found my mistake, I was changing grits to soon, time will tell. I am making sure I get an even surface before I go up to the next grit. Seems to be helping I'll let you know. Thanks fore all your tips they help alot Mike


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

I mix "wax" from toilet rings with thinner and diatomaceous earth, pumice, rotten stone and what have you. Sometimes I'll use a buff pad dipped in the buff compound, other times I just use a cloth.

Of course, this will leave a coat, but most of it can be removed with solvent, when done polishing. Experiment.

I use 120-320 (except for those major "adjustments"), then I go to the polish. It brings plastic back to a respectable clarity.


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## bigJohninvegas (May 25, 2014)

I agree with others in that it looks more like tool marks. And yes you have to sand all that out before moving to a finer grit. I have done the same thing. I know I sanded till I thought it looked good, and moved to the next finer grit, and did not stop the lathe. I have learned to stop the lathe and take a good look now. For me, it seems I would have a little bit of tear out that I would miss. 
As you learn tool control, you will leave less and less tool marks. 
I have learned to stop and sharpen my bowl gouge right before I do that final finish cut. That has really helped me. 
I mentioned before about wet sanding green wood with water. Green wood is all I ever wet sand. 
And I have been doing less of that. 
I have started power sanding most everything else. I have used some pretty high dollar angle drills for this in classes, but chose the harbor freight version for myself. I've had it about a year, and so far it has worked fine. 
https://www.harborfreight.com/38-in-variable-speed-reversible-close-quarters-drill-60610.html

As for sanding disks, I have used both Wood turners wonders. and VincesWoodNWonders, 
I think Ken at wood turners wonders has the best starter kit. I bought a kit that has both 2" and 3" disks. 
But a couple years later I rarely use the 3". He does have a 2" only kit. As for the paper, I cant tell the difference.
https://woodturnerswonders.com/collections/ultimate-sanding-system/products/copy-of-2-inch-ultimate-sanding-kit-plus-free-sample-pack
Run the lathe as if you were hand sanding, and add the power sanding at the same time. amazing at how fast you will be done. On the kit you will see what they call the intermittent foam pads. those little pads are soft, will let you get into some pretty serious curves, but will tear easy if you hit a void, or live edge. 
Ken also has about the best deals on CBN wheels. 
https://woodturnerswonders.com/
http://vinceswoodnwonders.com/

Good luck.


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## Karda (Nov 19, 2016)

i am having fits with sanding, The above bowls I finally got sanded where it looked good. I put a coat of shellac on and found some runs. I sanded them out with some alcohol, then sanded the entire surface and wiped it down. I'll shellac it later its to cold down there. I tried power sanding on the lathe but if the bowl has convex cures the sanding pad bucks and gouges the work, long slow flares i can do ok. I must be using the pad wrong but it donn't work for me I wish it did. I am working on a red maple bowl but I screwed up the shellac and have to remove it before I can go on. I just can't get the sanding marks out of the dark wood


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

The foam sanding balls I mentioned above work much better for the convex curves.

If you like the shellac finish, you might want to look at the friction finishes. I've used the Hut Crystal Coat friction finish and it yields a great high gloss finish, literally in seconds. I think it is basically shellac and wax that you apply while the lathe is spinning and the heat from friction makes it nearly dry immediately, though it still needs to cure overnight. It may seem a little expensive but you apply and waste so little that a small bottle will last quite a while. I use it on about 75% of my bowls and the small bottle lasted me about a year and half (that reminds me, I need to buy some more).


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## Karda (Nov 19, 2016)

thanks I'll look into it


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

What pads do you have for power sanding? Pics would help. From the look of the outside of the bowl above you probably have a relatively tight curve on the inside, which are tough. I usually have to do some hand work vs power to get tight interior curves truly cleaned up. The foam balls mentioned might help a lot never tried one. I try to not make tight internal curves - definition of " tight" is ambiguous, maybe less than 1" radius. I use 2" pads with 2-3/8" discs from Vince. Both the dense yellow flat and curved and softer orange flat and curved interface pads, and green or blue disc material. Tried the zirconium but the discs are too stiff and leave lots of marks as you mentioned - the work on the OD tho.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

The sanding balls and matching paper disc seem to be more expensive, especially the inflatable ones, and harder to find than the discs which is why you might want to look at the David Reed Smith link I posted above for making your own. I made some using some styrofoam balls I bought from a craft store instead shaping them out of foam as he did. They work but the glue I used doesn't hold the balls to the bolt well enough so I need to try again. I have some foam golf practice golf balls that might be good for the small one. Even with the occasional slip of the ball on the shaft, they still work very well. As long as I don't apply too much pressure, they don't slip so it is sort of like a governor to prevent applying to much pressure. Don't buy the cheapest velcro as it doesn't stick as well. I bought the premium velcro sheets that Home Depot has and cut it to mostly cover the balls. One other nice thing about making your own is that you can use a longer bolt which allows you to get into smaller bowls without buying a smaller drill


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## Karda (Nov 19, 2016)

What pads do you have for power sanding? My pads are 2" hook and loop no cushion, I mount it im my drill chuck. I mostly sand on the lathe. I have found that if I hand sand a bad spot then sand with the lathe running it is vey hard to get out the hand sand marks even when using the same grit. here is a pic of red maple. i can't get the marks out, this is sanded to 1500. thanks for the tips on the sanding ball, I'll see what I can come up with


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## LeeMills (Nov 2, 2014)

I don't know if any of this will help but….

Seeing scratches: I think you are moving to the next grit too soon. Someone else mentioned MS (Mineral Spirits).
Dampen the wood with MS and shine a light parallel to the wood. This will cause shadows and the scratches to really pop out. Even a flashlight will work, you may want to turn off the overhead lights if they are really bright.
Some folks use DNA but I find MS dries slower allowing you to inspect the entire project before it flashes off.
If you see scratches (not from the sandpaper) stay with the same grit. For the size project you show in your last pic (post 35) I think above 150 grit it will take 30 seconds per grit maximum.

Shellac: I use shellac on probably 80%. I don't worry about runs to start with. If you have runs, 1) dampen a shop towel with DNA and wrap it, the shellac will remelt and just rub it out 2) dampen 0000 steel wool with DNA, turn the lathe on, and it will melt the shellac and burnish it at the same time. The second is what I do almost 100% even without runs. The shellac burnished in gives a very nice to the touch finish with a good luster (not shine). If you want a high shine you have to do more but you will be starting with a very good base.

Tight areas: If you have an old mouse pad or something similar cut a piece to attach sandpaper too. It will fit most any curve. I use the temporary spray adhesive, sorta like a post-it note. Mine are about 1.5" wide and about 3" long. You can buy pads in a kit with various shapes but really not necessary.

Disc backing: Check out Vinces, he has info on when and why to use different "hardness" of pads for the 2" velcro disc. Basically, as you move up in grit you change backup pads to softer and softer. With all a light touch will do the job if the sandpaper is sharp.


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## Karda (Nov 19, 2016)

thanks Lee You are right I found I have been going through the grits to fast, I have also been over sanding. i prefer shellac so far. it gives a nice finish but not ultra shinny. is micro mesh available at grits below 1500. I have only found it in ultra high grits. 1500 is my top grit. I need it or something similar in 320-1500 thanks Mike


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## LeeMills (Nov 2, 2014)

Micromesh uses different standards from your normal sandpaper. The linked chart shows most of the comparisons.
So a 1500 micromesh is equal to about 400 ANSI, a 4000 micromesh is about 1,500 ANSI.
https://www.sisweb.com/micromesh/conversion.htm
My son gave me some micromesh and I have used it on small (under 2") items sanding after it has cured and I sanded wet with water.
Shellac can be as shiny as you want it. Someone else mentioned friction polish which I do use sometimes but it dries so quickly I have never tried it on a large item. I use Mylands and by the time you move from one end to the other the start is dry. You would use one drop to cover a pen, maybe not even that much.

Except for a very few small items I almost never sand the wood over 400, maybe 600, even if the finial finish I want like glass. I sand to say 400, apply the finish, then finish the finish, bringing the gloss down or making it higher.

BTW, it varies on where you get the info but in general 0000 steel wool is about 600 grit; some places say 400 and some say 1000. That is why after the final stage in wood sanding I usually burnish with steel wood.


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## Karda (Nov 19, 2016)

thanks for micro mesh conversion chart, it looks like most of the sizes are in line with what I would use. I have the 2 pieces I pictured here done and I would brag but the finish is giving me fits. I cut the shellac and i'll try again


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## Karda (Nov 19, 2016)

ok here are some pics of the walnut cup, the finish on ther maple didn't turn out right and need work.i learned a lot about sanding on this cup what did I still do wrong:


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