# Dyeing for some beautiful figured maple



## Rink (Apr 19, 2018)

So I have a bunch of nicely figured Maple that I got from member Scott. The first thing I made was a small simple jewelry box and I need to finish it. Of course I'd like to "pop" the grain. I have some Honey Amber Transtint dye that I previously used on a Bird's Eye Maple table and that came out nice, but not quite as popped as I'd hoped. So I decided to experiment. I bought a small package of Keda Dye and mixed up a bunch of combinations.

The first round can be seen on the boards with 3 colors (2 sides of 2 boards). I used 3 coats of dye, sanding back between each coat. I didn't really like any of them, which was helpful, I suppose, in helping me figure out what I didn't like. (It's hard to tell a lot from the pictures - everything looks sort of the same - maybe I need to provide close ups). I was very disappointed with the black. I'd seen black used as the first stain in videos to accentuate the grain, but it didn't work for me. Not sure why. I had only sanded to 120 on these boards, so maybe the roughness caused the scattered absorption? Also, maybe because these particular boards were not highly figured (I didn't want to use up the good stuff)?

Question 1: How can I use the black more effectively?

The second round can be seen in the board with 6 colors (2 sides). I like these results better. I sanded to 180 to start, then 240.

Question 2: Am I going about this dye experimentation in the right way? Is there a better, more efficient, way of doing what I'm doing?

Thanks!

David

Question 3: Neither of the finishes I put on over the dyes helped provide chatoyance. Is there a preferred finish to help with this? I'd like something relatively durable, but not plasticky.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Yes you are going about it the right way - testing different combinations. The are many variables to consider when coloring wood, especially when including top coats, so it takes time and a methodical approach. I have spent many hours over the years doing this same testing. Be sure to keep notes instead of trying to get remeber it all. Also recommend Bob Flexner's book "Understanding Wood Finishing".

I work with Transtint dyes for water/alcohol, no direct info on Keda but Im sure they are similar. Recommend sanding to 220-240. Since you applied 3 coats and sanded in between, with limited intensity, the dye mix is too weak or you didnt allow enough time or apply enough to soal in deeply. I find dye with no binder usually doesnt intensify much with more coats - dye redissolves. It just takes experimenting to figure out the right combination.

Typically a dark dye is applied, sanded back, then a lighter color over it. I mix in a little shellac to create a binder, 1/2 # cut or so. I also like Target EM4000 stain base. A wb finish can work also, but now we will get into chatoyance. Wb finishes have none. Oil/solvent do, shellac, blo, laquer, poly. The EM4000 is a wb oil emulsion that provides chatoyance but dries in 1-2 hrs. It does tend to corn sandpaper depending how heavily it is applied.

If using a solvent topcoat just apply it over the dye it will create chatoyance. If using wb finish, apply 1-2 coats of 1 to 1-1/2# shellac then wb topcoat. Shellac adds chatoyance and also seals wb/alcohol dye from being lifted by the wb finish.

As for looking like plastic - that is a function of gloss and film thickness vs finish type. I can use plain ob poly with proper application and not look any more like plastic than any other finish. Likewise any film building finish can look like plastic - its gloss level and film thickness.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

This may help


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## builtinbkyn (Oct 29, 2015)

I have yet to do a project with dyed curly maple, but have done some testing. Charles video and explanation is very comprehensive. I also found this one to be helpful. Actually there are some good finishing tips for all woods and situations at Charles' channel and the Woodworkers Source channel. Here's the Woodworkers Source video on curly maple.





View on YouTube


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

my own method for making curly maple pop:
apply early american transtint dye( any shade/color can be experiemented with) and allow to dry.
wet sand with BLO and 800 grit sandpaper.
let dry/cure.
gloss varnish topcoat sprayed.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

This is a before and after of the same wood that Scott and I got. Follow Charles Neil's video on trace coating. The key word is *trace*. I used brown Keda dye with a drop or two of amber transtint. The idea is to bring out the figure, not dye the wood. Here is the original forum. . Pick one color and perfect your technique. Mr. Neil can tell you better but for instance if it's green then I'd maybe start with 2 *trace* coats of black to bring out the figure. Then maybe use a green stain? Maybe oil based? I used GF semi gloss oil and urethane but I wasn't trying to dye the wood, just bring out the figure. It retains the wood feel and is not plasticky. I found that the key is to sand the wood until only the figure shows a trace of the darker dye, not the entire piece.

Once you have that technique down then start adding surface color. The oil based finish is what brings out the chatoyance.

The dye doesn't penetrate like stain so you can sand it all off and start over on either side.


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## Rink (Apr 19, 2018)

Thank you for all your helpful responses. I feel somewhat reassured that I'm on the right track.

Charles, I watched that video a while ago, I'll have to watch it again. Thanks for your productions!

Andy, I hoped that you would respond, as I had seen your results with this wood in Scott's original thread. I don't know how I missed your stain thread. I was going to get Arm R Seal gloss, but yours looks pretty shiny with semi-gloss.

I'll play a little more and show a picture of the result.

David


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

David,
That pic was taken when it was wet. I did 3 coats with sanding in between. Think I did up to 1200 on final coat then wax. See my bassinet project post for the finished product.


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## Rink (Apr 19, 2018)

Thanks, Andy. Found your project post. I've got to get around more on this website.

Now I'm confused about gloss vs semi-gloss. Hard to tell the sheen and chatoyance from your pictures. I guess it's just a matter of taste. Glossy might pop the grain more but it's so… shiny.

I just found this old thread. Charles told the OP to put on 4 coats of gloss ArmRSeal and then PM him. Just a guess here: build up the gloss depth and then scuff it a bit to reduce the gloss?

Leaning toward the semi.

David


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## Rink (Apr 19, 2018)

> I just found this old thread. Charles told the OP to put on 4 coats of gloss ArmRSeal and then PM him. Just a guess here: build up the gloss depth and then scuff it a bit to reduce the gloss?


Answering my own question, I found this Charles Neil video. My takeaway is to put down some gloss coats and then finish with a satin coat.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

So…..show us how they turned out!  What worked best for you??


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## Rink (Apr 19, 2018)

For staining, I ended up using a combination of brown, red and amber dye, sanded that down, and then put some amber dye on top. Next time I think I'll try a little red in the second amber coat. Then I used 3 coats of ArmRSeal gloss followed by one coat of satin.

I'm generally happy with the result (not the box itself - too many issues), except that the top has specks in the finish. The top is a different wood - not sure what it is, it was made from an old scrap piece of something. I finished it exactly the same as the sides, but the sides are perfect, with no specks. I tried some steel wool on the top, followed by wax and the specks are still there. Any thoughts on this?

In any event, my venture into staining and finishing turned out to be a positive experience. I'm ready to use some of the better wood for a nice project (a small entertainment center, I think).

David


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

*Hell yeah!!!* Very nice. The top one looks like they came from consecutive pieces.

The lid that is one up from the last picture is stunning. That combination of dyes really did the job. Great work. You kinda took it to the next level. Thanks.

Can't really help you with the speck issue. Maybe with a better close up shot somebody might be able to help. First thought….In the bottom picture I see small divots in the glare of the light. Is it possible that the specks are sawdust that settled into some of those divots and wasn't blown out before applying the finish?? Are the divots in the finish or the wood also?


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