# Qtr Sawn Oak



## drcodfish (Oct 17, 2015)

Hello finishing experts, I need some advice.

I am making a few boxes with 1/2" QS White Oak, mock up:




























Plenty of work left to do but I would like to achieve a dark mission oak finish. (Stain, shellac, glaze, and then sealer) I have Trans tint Dark Oak and Transtint Red oak stains. My question is this: Should I stain the boards once I have them cut and sanded but before I assemble the box, or should the box be completely assembled and then begin the finishing steps (including staining)?


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## Randy_ATX (Sep 18, 2011)

Assemble, stain, finish.
Looks good and I'd sand the burn out of the cross cut before finishing.


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## conifur (Apr 1, 2015)

That is a tuff question, I do alot of q sawn oak mission style and stained dyed. I spend more time on finishing then the whole project, most time finish b4 final assemble, since I dont spray. A box is another quantry, to say the least, I think if you want the finish to be perfect, inside and out finish b4 assembly.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Personally the only thing I would ever finish before assembly is something I'll take apart again. Finishing pieces that you'll need to,glue together is difficult. How can you get finish right where you need it, but not get it in the areas you need to glue.


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## conifur (Apr 1, 2015)

You tape or wax the glue areas so the finish does not contaminate the joint. If waxed then clean off the wax with MS.


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## wfedwardsjr (Sep 14, 2012)

It's unavoidable that you'll have to sand at least a little bit after assembly, so that means assemble first, then finish.


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## ThomasChippendale (Nov 6, 2015)

White or Red oak ?


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

Assemble first, then apply the finish. It takes too much time to mask off the areas to be glued when you prefinish.
I like high solid content stains like Rodda, Varathane, and Cabot for qs white oak. 
If you start with the dark oak transtint, and shellac, followed by glaze and topcoat… I don't think you'll be happy with it. Usually that type of J. Jewitt finish is used with a golden honey colored dye, with a darker gel stain used as a glaze. That way there are multiple colors adding to the effect.

A dark dye with a dark glaze will actually minimize the figure in your white oak. A light honey color, or thinned red color dye looks better under a dark glaze. Ultimately you can make a sample board, and take it through each step including sanding and topcoat. That way there will be no surprises.


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## drcodfish (Oct 17, 2015)

Randy; Yup, lots of sanding yet to do.

PJ; White oak, as mentioned in the original post.

My thinking was it would be a challenge to do a decent job of finishing on the inside once the box was assembled, however I am now considering lining the inside with cedar veneers which I scored form a friend who has a relative who works in small door/casing factory, so the quality of the interior finish won't be an issue.

I guess with all the joints and angles I will need to spray the finishes rather than use a brush, aside from the gel/glaze.


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## drcodfish (Oct 17, 2015)

Pinto:

Your suggestion is obvious, I don't know why I didn't figure this out on my own earlier. I have not tried this before (obvious I guess), so this kind of advice helps. I have trans tint reddish brown, and General Finishes Java gel stain. Do you think the reddish brown would be too dark to produce significant contrast with the Java Gel stain? Or should I get something like Honey Amber or Golden Brown dye for appropriate contrast with the Java Gel stain?

I like the reddish tone, maybe mixing a little of the reddish brown with amber would give me that red hue without being too dark?


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## daddywoofdawg (Feb 1, 2014)

Sand the inside of your box,and stain the inside before assembly,much easier,then blue tape next to the joints in case of glue squeeze out.It's a whole lot easier to remove the tape than scrape and sand the inside when assembled.


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## ThomasChippendale (Nov 6, 2015)

My take on nicely figured white oak is ammonia fuming. See here on a humidor built in a drawer lined with spanish cedar. This is only 2 hours of fuming, you can get as dark as you need with a full day fuming and it allows you to completely assemble and sand the box and it will get even colouring inside and out and brings out the rays like no other method. I seal with schelak and apply several coats of GF Endurovar.










Or here on a white oak door:


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

This is Brown Mohogany Transtint dye in a ratio of 1:1 with water, followed by Varathane Dark Walnut oil based stain. It looks really dark in person. 
I think the Java is a little too dark for white oak, and will dominate the finish. But that is just my opinion, and sample boards will tell the whole story. If you do the shellac sealing step it might look alright, because less of the stain will absorb.

Good luck with it.


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## drcodfish (Oct 17, 2015)

PJ: (My name is Paul Johnson by the way and I was PJ until I was a teenager) I have tried fuming. I fumed some boards last winter just using household ammonia for a little more than 24 hours. It worked way better than I expected, it did really showcase the rays but the wood was mostly grey and I didn't have any idea of how to finish it. Your humidor looks great but I am after a darker finish.

Pinto, that is beautiful and looks like what I am after. But the box is such a small piece that I don't think there will be enough wood to actually see the pattern of the rays as they appear in your drawer and leg. I am definitely going to finish a couple sample boards so I can get an idea of how this might work. You mentioned that you mixed with water, is there any specific reason that you used water instead of alcohol?


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## ThomasChippendale (Nov 6, 2015)

Hi Paul, P stands for Pierre . Yes fuming will get a gray tone without the amber coloring you are probably after. Finishing is easy since the fuming color is more than skin deep. You can sand lightly and then finish with your favorite recipie, mine is Schelack followed by varnish. A spar varnish would probably give it the amber tone you are after or a orange schelack finish with a wax overcoat.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

Hey Dr. C,
You do have a choice of water or alcohol when diluting Transtint dye. I use water because it gives you more working time, and is less likely to leave lap marks and streaks. If you decide on water, make sure to wet the project down to pre-raise the grain. Once dry, sand it back with very fine sandpaper before applying the dye.

Cheers


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## drcodfish (Oct 17, 2015)

> Hey Dr. C,
> You do have a choice of water or alcohol when diluting Transtint dye. I use water because it gives you more working time, and is less likely to leave lap marks and streaks. If you decide on water, make sure to wet the project down to pre-raise the grain. Once dry, sand it back with very fine sandpaper before applying the dye.
> 
> Cheers
> ...


That's the information I was looking for. I knew that w/alcohol you generally avoid raising the grain then sanding, but had never heard any upside to using water, or downside to using alcohol, now I know. It's good to learn from your mistakes but it's great to learn for the sucess of others.

Thanks so much for the scoop,


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## ToolCaddy (Dec 10, 2015)

You can acheive an amber tone with Behlen Rock Hard Tabletop varnish. Sample and let dry for a few days to be sure that the amber is deep enough for you. I prefer to thin the varnish with Behlen Reducer in order to get a more even finish. Your box is beautiful.


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## jtriggs (Dec 13, 2007)

Fuming is the way to go. Assemble the whole thing, put in a plastic bag with a small container of janitor's ammonia (10 -15%) closed with a twist tie. Leave for about 2 hours and you'll have a lovely tone that when finished with shellac then layers of poly will have a wonderful warm tone, and deep 3D effects.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

2,light coats of Watco medium walnut and 3 or 4 coats of arm-r-seal are my idea of perfect on white oak. Don't leave it on as long as the can says, that makes it muddy.


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## bearkatwood (Aug 19, 2015)

Assemble, glue, stain, finish. Have you tried iron acetate? It is a stain used in arts and crafts furniture quite a bit. Put some steel wool in a jar with vinegar and let it sit for a few days, then strain off the liquid into a second jar and discard the wool. The stain is very dark, but you can vary it by adding plain acetate to the mix. Have fun.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Made some similar boxes a while back. My were designed to screw the bottom on, and of course the top with hinges. I assembled/glued the sides, then prepped and finished all pieces, and finished assembly. Plenty of room to work. Anything I want a nice finish on gets designed with the finishing process in mind.


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## drcodfish (Oct 17, 2015)

Making progress on multiple fronts:

First I have done some more fuming, here is my setup:



























And here are the results: 








The middle board is untreated, the other 3 are fumed.

This is finished with a couple coats of just wipe on poly: 









and this is with a couple coats of spray on shellac









And I have glued up and sanded the box sides. More to do on that in the next couple days but so far so good: 



























But soon I will be ready to choose the finish. As mentioned I really like the look of Pinto's Brown Mahogany Transtint dye in a ratio of 1:1 with water, followed by Varathane Dark Walnut oil based stain. I picked up both those products at the far off wood worker store today but Pinto, a little more detail if you might; you mention transtint in a ratio of 1:1 with water. do you mean one ounce of dye for one ounce water? That seems very intense (also very expensive). If you can enlighten me just a bit on this I would greatly appreciate it.

Also, after using the wipe on poly and the spray on shellac both sample boards are still pretty rough (because it's white oak = open grain). I'd line to get these boards much smoother, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## AandCstyle (Mar 21, 2012)

Dr C, to get oak to be really smooth, you will need to use a grain filler. Plaster of Paris is one option, but there are many others. Google "grain filler oak" for more than you ever wanted to know.


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## ThomasChippendale (Nov 6, 2015)

I don't think open pores in white oak is your problem, it could be in red but this is white. It could be that the rings are softer and you sanded with your hands so it carved a depression in the softer summer rings. You need to use a block for all but the finest grades of sandpaper so you avoid gouging in the softer areas.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

1:1 with water is 1oz dye to 32 oz water. 2oz to 32 oz is pretty much max but is very intense. I like to use a binder - 10-20% clear wb finish, which allows adding coats to increase color more gradually


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

I know you said it's white oak but that looks like red oak end grain and rays.


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## drcodfish (Oct 17, 2015)

Soooo …

Much messing about and I produced a couple dark mission finishes which I liked. This box started out as practice and experiment for both finishing and technique. But the farther I got with it the more I thought it deserved to ends up somewhere other than the wood stove. I used an Incra table saw box joint jig.





































The last pic gives the most accurate impression of the color. Flash really over emphasizes the red/orange.


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## drcodfish (Oct 17, 2015)

Sorry , double post.


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

Now, that came out right nice!


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