# Perfecting poly finish??



## watermark (Jan 29, 2013)

I am working on a coffee table made with a cross cut slab so the top is all *end grain*. I am trying to finish with wipe on poly and I am having trouble getting it to the point I think it needs to be at to sell. Looking at it from above in normal light it is good but when I get down and look across it with sunlight or a flash light I can see blemishes.

I am using 600 grit sandpaper between coats to smooth it out.

Is that normal because it's end grain? I already sanded back to bare wood and started over once because I wasn't satisfied but I am getting the same results this time too.

Thanks for any ideas I have read through many other forum post regarding wipe on poly but couldn't find an answer.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I don't know what you mean buy "blemishes", but if it's imperfections in the finish (as opposed to the wood), remember that wipe on varnish builds much more slowly than any other application method. Some claim 3 coats wipping to 1 coat of brushed. Typically when I'm trying to get a perfectly smooth finish with varnish I'll apply 3 brushed coats, then sand back, and repeat. Look for shiney spots after you sand back….they represent low spots in the finish layer that haven't been filled yet. Once they disappear, you have a smooth finish…for me then it gets one coat of wipe on to bring back the gloss and I'm done. (I typically brush varnish thinned 20%, and the process I just described is very slow since you have to wait for the varnish to cure between sandings…usually several days). I don't know if it will help, but here's a short article on wiping varnish written by Bob Flexner


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Ditto what Fred said. It can take a long time to build up a perfectly smooth finish on a porous surface.

Aside from just using multiple coats, you can also speed up the process a bit by starting with a clear grain filler like CrystaLac.

By the way, photos always help.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

it being end grain - the pores will suck that finish right in, some spots more, some spots less which will leave you with an uneven surface.

you would want to fill in those end grain pores with a (appropriate) wood filler, or with shellac and some wet sanding between coats to seal in those pores before you apply that poly.


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

I usually do a coat of sealcoat (dewaxed shellac) first. It seals the pores so the finish will be even.


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## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

Ditto on Fred's suggestion on brushing the initial coat(s) of varnishes. It's easy to correct defects in early coats, and it builds much faster. Once you've got an even base, finish and set your sheen by wiping.

Many years ago, I was taught a fast "French Polish" method, consisting of a varnish layer that was sanded smooth, followed by a rubbed-on layer of shellac or Qualasole. The initial brushed-on layer saved many hours of rubbing to build the finish. It's not the traditional way to do it, but it left a fantastic looking, but more durable, tabletop finish.


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## watermark (Jan 29, 2013)

Thanks for all the ideas. Hopefully I get a finished shot up here soon


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## watermark (Jan 29, 2013)

OK I followed the advise and had what I thought was a nice finish looking at it in the garage where I finished and waxed it but woke up to a a scratchy mess. Looking at it was real nice but then from certain angles it was just a mess of really fine scratches so I went back and wet sanded from 320 to 600 grit and finished up with 0000 steel wool and same result looks good straight on but get down and look across it with the right light and it's a mess of really fine scratches.









not sure if it comes through in the pic. Any ideas are greatly appreciated. I assume I am doing something wrong with the wet sanding or steel wool.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

Hard to tell from the photo of sanding marks in the wood or finish looks like you got rid of dust nips leaving pits in finish.

Before applying finish always wet the surface looking for sanding scratches in wood. Often take project outside in sunlight because of poor shop lighting and old eyes.

I always allow a day between re-coating surface with finish & light sanding. I seldom wet sand between coats. Use 320 or 400 grit silicon carbide wet/dry paper. I change paper often if necessary. Always wipe down and vacuum surface between coats.

I add a bit of dish washing soap to water whether using 600 or 1,000 grit silicon carbide wet/dry paper or 3M Softback Sponge to finish the finish.

I make my own wiping varnish/poly because most commercial products more than 60% dryers & solvent to resign. Normally start out with 50/50 mix of poly/solvent for first coats. Rule of thumb for me is 2 coats of wipe-on equals one coat of film finish. I use simply kitchen measuring cup to mix.


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## upinflames (Jun 24, 2012)

Get the elbow grease out and sand her back down, ROS will work to get back to raw wood. Once you're there, get the card scrapers out.

If you don't have scrapers, then the elbow grease comes in, hand sand up to around 320grit. The hand sanding will eliminate any swirls from the ROS.

Then you can go with the grain filler of your choice.

What ever you choose, wipe on or brush, should work better.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

On a difficult surface like end grain you might consider a first coat of epoxy. Think of it as really thick varnish that dries hard over night. One coat is usually enough to sand back to "no shiny spots". I use it over delicate marquetry when I'm afraid that sanding further to completely flatten it may sand through the thin veneer. You can then French polish, varnish, wipe or whatever you wish.


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## moonie (Jun 18, 2010)

A brush and steel wool this table top toke about 4 coats.


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

dean… that picture is so small! the postage stamp sized pic looks beautiful with that finish. can re-post to make it bigger?


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## moonie (Jun 18, 2010)

Sorry but my hard drive bet the the big so I got this off my cell phone.


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## BLarge (Aug 29, 2011)

Do you want a soft, even finish on it?

I just finished a white oak table top that is flat, consistent, soft and satin sheen. I didn't fill the pores, but I put on about 5-6 nice generous wet coats on so the pores would gradually be filled. I then wet sanded that back so it was flat (so no shiny spots). I then put on two more wet coats, wet sanded them flat up to 600 grit. To finish, I rubbed the finish out with 0000 steel wool and Wool Lube, with the grain.

It turned out amazing, it really breathtaking. The thick brushed Poly will enable you to fill those dip in your finish, and give you a flat surface to rub out to any sheen you want.

Wipe on Poly just build to slow for a Coffee Table or Dining Table, where you need a pretty thick film finish to take the bings and bangs.


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## DaddyZ (Jan 28, 2010)

On a Couple of tables I have done, I put the coat of poly on, then brushed on a coat of paint thinner.

The paint thinner seemed to raise the poly then evaporate back down with a very nice finish. I don't mix the 2, 1st coat straight poly - 2nd coat straight thinner. Thinner applied while poly still wet ASAP


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## fredj (Jun 4, 2013)

If you do take it back down to bare wood (I would) try hand sanding only and sand only in one direction. With end grain I sand one way, lightly rub a finger over it wood, to feel it, then sand in the other direction and check it again. Which ever way feels smoothest is the direction I sand in. I know this sounds like voodoo sanding but it seems to work in getting end grain as even and smooth as possible which is what you need before any type of finish. Also end grain is like a drinking straw, it's going to soak up anything you put on it. My last step (or is that 2 step) in sanding is once I've gone as fine as I want, dampen the surface just enough to raise the grain, let it dry, then sand it only enough to smooth it back out and no more. This does two things, raises grain that may not have gotten as well sanded, and keeps the grain from raising when you put on the finish.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

90% of finishing problems can be solved by spraying.
Poly is no exception. Brushing or wiping creates marks that need to be sanded away. Then the top coat will have marks too. 
Poly sprays wonderfully. A simple gravity feed HVLP gun is all that is needed. 
I have had good luck with Deft brand poly for exterior applications. For interior projects, I spray pre-cat lacquer. Lacquer dries faster (15 minutes for lacquer, vs. 24 hrs for poly).


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## watermark (Jan 29, 2013)

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I have sanded back to bare wood 7 times now and hope that's the last time. I have 3 more of these slabs from the same tree I will be using something other then poly on the next ones


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