# Wynn vs Damn Filters



## jsvenson11

I've been reading the forums for a while on a variety of topics. Now looking to get my first dust collector and I'm trying to decide on the filter system to use. I'm pretty set on doing a modified 2 HP Harbor Freight system based on what I've read here.

I've noticed that a lot of people have purchased cartridge filters from Wynn Environmental. I was searching for alternatives and found www.damnfilters.com . Has anyone ever purchased a filter from them or does anyone know about the quality of their filters? For what it's worth, they say their cartridge filters are American made. I'm hoping to do MERV 15 filter, which they carry for a variety of other dust collector manufacturers and for less than the $200 Wynn filter.

Just curious if anyone has had any experience with Damn Filters. Couldn't find much on them while searching the internet. Thanks in advance


----------



## sawdustjunkie

I have had a Harbor Freight foe 4 years now. I had a Wynn and didn't like it because it was hard to clean and it started leaking after about a year and a half. I bought a filter from Grizzly that fits the HF. It's the one that has a crank handle you turn to clean it and it works great. Cost if I remember was about $220, but I got it when they had one of there 10% deals. The best thing is the crank handle. Works great and you don't need to blow compressed air thru it, which can damage the Wynn.
There item number is H5783. The current price is $235 plus shipping.


----------



## Ocelot

Look at shipwright's setup. He uses a large diesel truck air filter instead of the Winn - much less expensive. Sometimes I've seen them on amazon warehouse deals - just get a big one and make whatever adapter is needed.


----------



## jsvenson11

Turns out it costs more to ship the HF blower here (Alaska) than the blower itself costs so I'll have to figure out a different setup or buy one pre-assembled. Noted on the Wynn filters-I'd read elsewhere about the filter cleaning issues. I've also read, however, that the paddle system used by Grizzly, Jet, etc. can damage the filters.

Ocelot, thanks for the tip. I'll definitely look into the diesel truck filter option and check out Shipwright.


----------



## MJCD

My experience is that the Wynn's are worth the money, and their customer service is excellent. The real issue is whether the effective CFM draw from the HF Dust Collector is sufficient. The 0.5/0.3 micron filters require a lot more umph than a 5 or 1 micron bag or canister. The effectiveness of a DC system is more than just 'stated' horsepower and 'stated' CFM.


----------



## shipwright

Here's my HF system with Donaldson filter. It works as well as the bigger Wynn filter.
I have since added a super dust deputy and now I don't get anything at all in my collection bag I am assuming that means that I'm not clogging my filter either. I have bee; using it a lot since and haven't noticed any suction loss.


----------



## DustDevilAZ

Hello, following up on this link as just had a HORRIBLE and ARROGANT interaction with damnfilters.com.

I cannot recommend enough that you DO NOT do business with this company.

I was interested in a filter for upgrading my dust collector and saw they had advertised free shipping (with some restrictions) for new users. Upon checkout, there was no free shipping on the filter from damnfilters.com (Damn Filters).

I very much respect that "some restrictions" was listed and would have happily accepted that as the answer. But through chat with the company received nothing but excuses and arrogance.

1. When told the item had no free shipping, I asked what does. I was specifically told NOTHING. While I respect there should be "some" restrictions..nothing implies false advertising.

2. This was blamed on a "punk" of an internet/website developer and no responsibility by one of the chat representatives/owners "Jeff". Which at best represent incompetence of management and again at worst deceptive business practices.

When informed the website has now been altered, good for them, but lets see if it stays down. Overall received nothing but arrogant mocking from the website regarding THEIR error.

I am still trying to track down the parent company to complain to the BBB but do not believe they are even registered - that says a lot.

There are a lot of good, reputable companies to buy filters from and it is clear DAMNfilters.com is NOT one of them. Avoid at all cost and please share this on as many websites as you can. Lets get the word out!

Screen captures of the website and chat are below.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/DustDevil_AZ/Damnfilters%20damn%20filters%20com%20screen%20captures%201_zpsetsof7wq.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/DustDevil_AZ/Damnfilters%20damn%20filters%20com%20screen%20captures%202_zps3t34tni1.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f330/DustDevil_AZ/Damnfilters%20damn%20filters%20com%20screen%20captures%203_zps97zzw1pb.jpg


----------



## bbasiaga

> My experience is that the Wynn s are worth the money, and their customer service is excellent. The real issue is whether the effective CFM draw from the HF Dust Collector is sufficient. The 0.5/0.3 micron filters require a lot more umph than a 5 or 1 micron bag or canister. The effectiveness of a DC system is more than just stated horsepower and stated CFM.
> 
> - MJCD


Actually, since there is so much more surface area for the air to exit, despite being a finer fabric, the canister filters provide less resistance to airflow than the bags. It is often necessary to throttle the inlet of the fan to keep it from overamping due to reduced resistance. That was true if my HF unit with Wynn filter. I eventually added the woodcraft trashcan chip separator and that provided enough pressure drop to stop from popping the breaker, and I no longer have to pinch back the blast gate.

Brian


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Call me old school (ok I am old), but I only do business with websites were company address is listed on web site. Why?

*Shipping costs:* closer is cheaper

*Delivery time:* Sometimes I want it fast.

*When things go wrong:* Know city and location where I register a BBB complaint.

Last but not least:
If they ever make me angry and/or fail to deliver; 
I want my family to know where I will be arrested for taking my revenge on a stupid person.

Damn filters site has no address listed on site, they are removed from my sourcing list without out a second thought.

YMMV


----------



## ArtMann

With a name like that, I would never even consider doing business with such an organization.


----------



## PlainerThings

I've seen products from both companies. I have the Wynn filter on my Harbor Freight dust collector in my shop, and the metalfab company where I work buy their filters from Damn Filters. Both products look and perform very well.

In terms of customer service, we are talking apples and oranges here. Wynn specializes in small woodshop dust collection. Damn filters is manufacturing and selling directly to large industrial companies with fleets of dust collectors. I know, for a fact, that they could care less about selling one or two filters at a time to small shops. (I've asked them about a replacement for my HF.) These guys are used to dealing with crotchety supervisors and purchasing departments buying 10 to 100 filters at a pop. I'd give them a break about not wanting to send you a filter that costs more to ship than it does to make.

My company changes out filters, 12 at a time, every 6 to 9 months. We've never had a quality problem with the damn filters and we've saved quite a bit of money by using them over the big name manufacturers. The cost to performance ratio is fantastic. But again, we're talking industrial scale here.

Bonus, our purchasing gal always gets a chuckle her when the tell her to order the "damn filters".


----------



## DustDevilAZ

Yea, I have NO issue if they don't want to include free shipping. My problem is that they advertised they did. And when asked - they said nothing qualifies for no shipping.

That is just downright deceptive. We are also not talking a one line entry somewhere, but point #1 of 5 they listed as reasons to buy from them.

The attitude over what could have been an honest mistake was disgusting.


----------



## jsvenson11

Thanks for all the insight and input. I was able to get the HFDC after all during a trip to the lower 48. I unintentionally decided on a setup very similar to that in Shipwright's post but will vent outside in the summer and likely use a cartridge filter in the winter. Based on the comments above, haven't decided whether to gamble on Damn Filters yet.


----------



## eflanders

I have two DC units. One is a Delta with the Wynn, the other is a HF with the Donaldson filter. The HF unit is hooked to my jointer & planer only. The Delta is hooked to my fine dust producers (saws, sander, router). Both filters work very well as intended. Both units have the same Thein design separator connected to them. Neither unit allow dust to into the collector bags provided the dust bin is not over filled. I have installed little windows into the side of the garbage cans to watch the levels. My shop is in the basement so effective dust collection is not only critical, its very visible! There is a physical size difference between the two filters but I believe they have the same merv rating. I have not tried swapping the two filters around but the smaller Donaldson filter tends to retain more particulates within it than the Wynn does. I have had the the Wynn setup for over 3 years now and am very pleased. I probably do more work than the average hobbyist, but less than a full time pro. I added the HF unit about a year ago but the Donaldson was just added about a month ago. The other difference between the dc units is that the HF unit has a larger collection bin as it collects mostly large sized particles. I have not noticed any differences in the amount of dust that escapes either of the filters. Which is what is critical. But I do have to do a bit of a filter cleaning with each bin full of dust I collect especially on the Donaldson. My suspicion is that the smaller filter is the reason. But at 1/4 the cost of a Wynn filter shipped, I'm more than willing to do it! It was the cost differential that had me get the Donaldson filter over another Wynn. Cost is why I have two used DC units vs. one bigger unit and why I didnt use super dust deputy cyclone units vs. my Thein separators. Both units with all modifications included cost me less than $500 total.

P.S. I used to double filter bag my HD unit which worked fairly well initially, but found out later on that once the second bag got saturated with fines, it would then send them into the air. That is the main reason why I added the Donaldson cartridge filter. The cartridge filters have better Merv rating to them and do not spew visible fines accordingly.


----------



## BYBuzz

I wish I read this before ordering from Damn Filter (aka Kansas Filtration LLC.) ... It's been over 3 weeks and I have not received my filters. Every week a promise that its been shipped.


----------



## Dustyjobs

I've had experience with both Wynn and damn filters. The freight from Wynn was expensive and they are
Big on changing the OEM technology (which causes you to lose your warranty). Damn filters lead time was longer than expected but the product was quality. I say it's a toss up.


----------



## Dustyjobs

I've been referred to Wynn by a few people. Upon further research, I found this? Is this the same
Wynn or a different Wynn?

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-jersey/njdce/1:2017cv06430/353472/32/


----------



## kelvancra

When running my business, I looked into the merit of a BBB listing. Too, I've dealt with BBB's to complain about companies. From those experiences, I submit they are as or nearly as worthless as a congressman or woman.

After a bit of investigating, it became obvious the BBB's were not overly inclined to report complaints about their paying members. The BBB admitted it took several complaints to result in a report to the public, and the company had to let the complaint stand unchallenged.

In short, though we'd do well to consider a BBB complaint, it is one of the last places I'd rely on to determine the good of a company.


----------



## therealSteveN

> Here s my HF system with Donaldson filter. It works as well as the bigger Wynn filter.
> I have since added a super dust deputy and now I don't get anything at all in my collection bag I am assuming that means that I'm not clogging my filter either. I have bee; using it a lot since and haven't noticed any suction loss.
> 
> - shipwright


Paul do you have a link perhaps to an older post with more pics of this set up?

TIA.


----------



## therealSteveN

> Here s my HF system with Donaldson filter. It works as well as the bigger Wynn filter.
> I have since added a super dust deputy and now I don't get anything at all in my collection bag I am assuming that means that I'm not clogging my filter either. I have bee; using it a lot since and haven't noticed any suction loss.
> 
> Paul do you have a link perhaps to an older post with more pics of this set up?
> 
> TIA.
> 
> - shipwright





> Call me old school (ok I am old), but I only do business with websites were company address is listed on web site. Why?
> 
> *Shipping costs:* closer is cheaper
> 
> *Delivery time:* Sometimes I want it fast.
> 
> *When things go wrong:* Know city and location where I register a BBB complaint.
> 
> Last but not least:
> If they ever make me angry and/or fail to deliver;
> I want my family to know where I will be arrested for taking my revenge on a stupid person.
> 
> Damn filters site has no address listed on site, they are removed from my sourcing list without out a second thought.
> 
> YMMV
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


Capn K I couldn't agree more with the thought, unfortunately the age of .llc and with them you can't always get that up front, or even behind sometimes. Are you referring to DAMN filters? I've just never seen such a selection of possibles as I did when I searched HF Dust collector

My best suggestion there is to know your Credit Card company, and their policies so in the event you get even a little singed, you can just flip the charges. I've found even hard core company policy get flipped real quick when you have the goods, and they don't have the money any longer. I only suggest this when you get in a bind with a companies policy, if you do it because you don't want to correspond with someone over a perceived issue, your CC will tire of you quickly.


----------



## DAMN_FILTERS

Hello, Lumberjocks. Pardon the interruption but this thread mentions our company, DAMN FILTERS, and I think it's fair that we comment.

First, even though we're in the business of industrial filters, we are not equipped to advise or supply small to mid-size woodshop dust collection projects. We love you guys, and we have several woodworkers on staff, but it's just not our thing. There are other companies, like Wynn, who do specialize in filters and fittings for shop collection. We encourage you to use them a resource…and by all means, if you are looking to supply your fleet of industrial collectors with high-quality/great-value filters give DAMN FILTERS a call…and expect some mild swearing to happen.

Second, the swearing. We've started a new "Minimal Cussing" policy and we'll strictly enforce it beginning in 2019. From now on DAMN employees will not swear at customers unless the customer swears at them first. Furthermore, the return-swear will be equal to the insult-level of the original curse. Example: If a customer calls us a "Son of a #%&*@" we will not start dropping f-bombs. But if someone pulls out the f-bomb, it's open season. I hope that clears things up a little.

Happy New Year!

Pete S.


----------



## moke

> When running my business, I looked into the merit of a BBB listing. Too, I ve dealt with BBB s to complain about companies. From those experiences, I submit they are as or nearly as worthless as a congressman or woman.
> 
> After a bit of investigating, it became obvious the BBB s were not overly inclined to report complaints about their paying members. The BBB admitted it took several complaints to result in a report to the public, and the company had to let the complaint stand unchallenged.
> 
> In short, though we d do well to consider a BBB complaint, it is one of the last places I d rely on to determine the good of a company.
> 
> - Kelly


AMEN!!!! The BBB is not an enforcement agency….they earn their revenue by their subscription fees from businesses. Would you bite the hand that feeds you?
Just my .02


----------



## Dustyjobs

Www.damnfilters.com has a sense of humor. Kudos. I'm definitely buying from you guys! I love that name.

@therealsteven- thanks for the info. I'm going to be using this for sure!


----------



## RobHannon

I am using a Donaldson filter intended for a Diesel truck as well. PN P181038 worked for my Grizzly 2HP unit and I ordered it from www.finditparts.com I have 0 problems with the reseller or the filter and will probably go back to them whenever I need another.


----------



## kelvancra

On the PN P181038, since they're so small, do you stack three or four, or build an adapter to mount them to increase surface area for air draw?

Obviously, these wouldn't compete with the 20" diameter versions otherwise.


----------



## RobHannon

The P181038 is 17"OD and 23" high just like the Wynn 35 series filters.

You certainly could stack them with minimal modification and increase the filter area, but the single filter is already a significant increase in filter area over the bag that came with. I think without a larger impeller, more filter area is going to have minimal improvement.



> On the PN P181038, since they re so small, do you stack three or four, or build an adapter to mount them to increase surface area for air draw?
> 
> Obviously, these wouldn t compete with the 20" diameter versions otherwise.
> 
> - Kelly


----------



## kelvancra

Thanks. The site I first pulled up using this number indicated it was somewhere under 12" in diameter (around 10" ID).

Even the larger size you indicate might be a bit small for my Jet 1900, even though it would take two.

All that aside, I have a little Jet cartridge unit and, each time I cleaned the filter, a good portion of the dust would land on the plate between the mount area for the filter and the filter. Because of this, I'd start it up and it seemed my cleaning effort was a waste of time.

When I took the cartridge off to inspect for the whys and wherefores of the degrading performance, I noted the not insignificant buildup on the plate. It was obvious, to me, starting the collector again just pulled all the dust on the plate right back into the pleats again.

So, I took to shaking the entire beast, after a cleaning. When doing so, I noted a great deal of dust fall into the clear bag. After taking this approach, I noted a HUGE performance jump, from each cleaning.

From this, if I were to make an adapter to allow the smaller diameter filters to run on units intended for a 20" diameter bag or cartridge, I'd make the adapter several layers of plywood thick and the inside would be steeply beveled, sanded and sealed, to reduce the likelihood of the same kind of build up that happened to my plate happening with the adapter.



> The P181038 is 17"OD and 23" high just like the Wynn 35 series filters.
> 
> You certainly could stack them with minimal modification and increase the filter area, but the single filter is already a significant increase in filter area over the bag that came with. I think without a larger impeller, more filter area is going to have minimal improvement.
> 
> On the PN P181038, since they re so small, do you stack three or four, or build an adapter to mount them to increase surface area for air draw?
> 
> Obviously, these wouldn t compete with the 20" diameter versions otherwise.
> 
> - Kelly
> 
> - RobHannon


----------



## twmv86

i found the specs on the donaldson p181038. theyre just like the wynn..
im leaning towards on of these. i found a truck supply locally that will get one for me

http://www.michelecaroli.com/info.asp?oempartnumber=69008917&donaldson=P181038


----------



## rkruz

which damnfilter part number is for the harbor freight?


----------



## Rich_LI

I have the HF Dust collector, I use the stock cloth bags. I believe the advantage of replacing the bag with the filter is surface area, hence more airflow. Since I have no comparison data its hard for me to judge how good a filter would work, but my stock bag filter works very well, My jointer does not clog up on use, my Plainer works fine, my table saw has some topside blow back but its what I would expect. I have the Dust collector in and adjoining room with my shop plumbed with 4" drain PVC pipe. I also have a garbage can chip separator, that fills up at about 5 to 1 ratio with the lower bag on the collector. Interestingly enough the adjacent room is my bicycle room, there is virtually no dust on anything in there. I had thought about adding a filter, but its almost the same price as the dust collector. How good can it be.


----------



## gbarnas

Just FYI - since this thread has been resurrected..
I built my system to use FARR style (flanged) filters. I have used a single-filter with the HF blower for a few years. Sold that and got a Grizzly 3HP that outputs into a pair of 34" 2959sf 0.5 micron nano-fiber filters. Wynn claimed 300sf, all others were either 295 or 297sf.

Priced at Wynn - $128 ea - they refused to sell them for dust collection use stating that the internal cage would catch shavings! Personal experience was just the opposite.
Priced at Damn and FilterProfessor - both had good filter pricing (around $135) but almost $100 freight charges.
Purchased from Cardinal Filter (https://cardinalfilters.com/) for $142ea for the 2 filters but delivery (total) was just $24, so actually saved $60+.
PN for the OEM FARR is *125154-008*, at Wynn it's *9E300NANO*.

The output of the blower feeds directly into a plenum box, from which you can hang one or two of the flanged filters - a snap to slide out to clean. easy to build from some MDF, and very low pressure loss this way.

I used the closed-end filters - no bags hanging from them. After 4 years had no chips or anything but fines in the filter. Cleaning the filter just once during that time produced less than a cup of fine dust.


----------



## PCDub

> I have the HF Dust collector, I use the stock cloth bags. I believe the advantage of replacing the bag with the filter is surface area, hence more airflow. Since I have no comparison data its hard for me to judge how good a filter would work, but my stock bag filter works very well…
> 
> .... I had thought about adding a filter, but its almost the same price as the dust collector. How good can it be.
> 
> - Rich_LI


The biggest advantage is that the filter collects the micro particles, the ones that damage your lungs without you even knowing it. How good can it be? Consider the value of your lung function and overall health over time.


----------

