# What am I doing wrong with my Jointer?



## PeteK (Aug 23, 2016)

Hello all. Rookie woodworker here. I just got this Delta 6" Benchtop Jointer and I am attempting to make a flat panel out of 1×4 boards. They were already pretty close to flat on the edges but I wanted a no gap, seamless panel. But it seems the more I run the boards on the jointer, the more convex they become. So like when two boards are up against each other, there is a gap at the ends. What am I doing wrong? I am applying pressure on the outfeed side as I push through. I tried deeper cuts and shallower cuts but I keep getting further and further away from being flat. I'm confused.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

you might be just suffering from snipe (Edges getting overly cut), how is the center of the boards? flat and true?

usually you want to joint boards longer than the final result (if you want 30" final boards, you would want to run boards that are 32"+ long so that you can trim the ends and get you true 30" flat boards at the end)


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Your problem is that your trying to joint the convex side of the board and it rocks from one end to the other if the other side is straight then take it to the table saw and put the straight side up against the fence and take just enough off to remove the convex bump then joint as necessary .


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

Here is a good place to start: Jointer Problems, Causes & Fixes

Cheers,
Brad


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Before you start, put a straight edge on
each edge to be jointed to determine where
to remove stock. An edge will often be
either too hollowed or too bellied to straighten
in one pass on the jointer. If the edge is
hollow, partial passes from each end remove
the excessive hollow. If the edge is bellied,
partial passes in the center of the board 
remove the belly. When you can hold the
straight edge up to the edge and it is close
to straight, then one pass will make it straight
if your technique is good.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Good to see your post-Sharon I guess I've missed seeing your post lately.

Lorens approach works great too.


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## Kirk650 (May 8, 2016)

When running the board edge across the jointer, press down on the middle of the board. That will help with getting the edge flat, or as I prefer, slightly convex.


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## PeteK (Aug 23, 2016)

> Your problem is that your trying to joint the convex side of the board and it rocks from one end to the other if the other side is straight then take it to the table saw and put the straight side up against the fence and take just enough off to remove the convex bump then joint as necessary .
> 
> - a1Jim


Well, that is exactly what is happening, but I still am not sure how I got to there. As I said, it was pretty close to a flat edge to begin with and the more I ran the board through the jointer, the more convex it became.

I thought maybe snipe, but I always thought that would be more pronounced.


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## Gaffneylumber (Feb 18, 2016)

Have you checked to make sure your outfeed and indeed tables are coplaner?


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## PeteK (Aug 23, 2016)

> Have you checked to make sure your outfeed and indeed tables are coplaner?
> 
> - Gaffneylumber


Well, they are both level. I'm not sure the outfeed is adjustable.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Have you checked to make sure your outfeed and indeed tables are coplaner?
> 
> - Gaffneylumber
> 
> ...


How hard are you pressing down? If you push a board flat it will come out the same shape, but with a shave. I made some bananas when I first tried jointing. It is more of a guiding operation not a forcing operation.


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## PeteK (Aug 23, 2016)

> Have you checked to make sure your outfeed and indeed tables are coplaner?
> 
> - Gaffneylumber
> 
> ...


Was pushing kind of hard. I guess i dont really know the proper pressure to push down, but it makes more sense to just sort of guide through


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

How long are the 1×4's ?


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

I just spent an evening dialing in my 6" Delta. I'm no expert, but here's what worked for me.

First, make sure the jointer is setup up properly to eliminate anything but human error before moving on.

The outfeed table is only adjustable with shims.

1. When the infeed table is as high as it can go it should be level with the outfeed table. Also make sure it's level on the back (fence side) and front side (switch side). I had to shim the outfeed table up just a touch by removing the 4 bolts and putting a shim under the front 2 bolts.

2. Then, make sure the knives are adjusted correctly. Some say that when you rotate the knives with a straight edge on the outfeed table they should pull the straight edge forward 5-7mm. That always gave me snipe at the tail end of the board. This was caused by 2 things. One being that the infeed table was slightly higher than the outfeed. The other reason was that the blades were adjusted to pull the 7mm. It wasn't until I saw something here that said this was incorrect and that the knives should be adjusted so that they are flush with the two tables. Use the little latch that flips up which will lock the blades in their highest point of travel. Your straight edge should glide across the tables and blades smoothly without touching the blades.

3. Then, make sure your fence is 90 degrees to the tables.

After doing those things in that order all my issues went away and I could work on my technique, which is just as important as the above but can't be done until the machine is trued up.

Start with scrap wood that you know to be flat and is about 5" inches wide. With the tables and blades aligned and set to zero it should pass over the blades and remove nothing. Then adjust it until you can just hear it kiss the wood. Then back it off ever so slightly until you hear nothing again. Loosen the screw on the indicator and set it to zero then tighten it. Use chalk or pencil lines on the bottom of the piece and slightly adjust the blade height so that it takes off only a thin sliver of wood. The pencil lines should be evenly removed across it's width. If they are not then your blades aren't aligned. Fix that. Then, if you get snipe it means that the board is dropping off of the infeed table onto the blades and they, the tables, are not coplanar. Go back and fix that. 

























Now you can work on your technique. Put pressure on the piece as you move it across the infeed table keeping very slight pressure on the outfeed side.

Then follow Loren's directions



> Before you start, put a straight edge on
> each edge to be jointed to determine where
> to remove stock. An edge will often be
> either too hollowed or too bellied to straighten
> ...


Like I said, I'm no expert but it worked great for me. When I set the dial to 1/32 and used my calipers it took off exactly 1/32. Flat boards, no snipe.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

> When running the board edge across the jointer, press down on the middle of the board. That will help with getting the edge flat, or as I prefer, slightly convex.
> 
> - Kirk650


I wouldn't do this ^ especially when face jointing all you're doing is simulating a planer.

One mistake I made as a newbie was putting to much down pressure on the wood over jointer head. The only pressure should 1) over the outfeed table and 2) behind the cutterhead on the infeed (which is more to keep the wood moving than push down on table).

I recommend using a push block with heel rather than a standard push block, which often makes you put excessive down pressure right. You don't want to flex the wood you want it to take off the high places. This is especially important when face jointing where the wood flexes much more.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

Ditto. You want to be pushing down very hard on the outfeed side to make sure the wood registers off that surface. That will make the board conform to that (flat) surface, rather than bowing up and down as your pressure changes.

You never push down right over the cutterhead.


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## PeteK (Aug 23, 2016)

> How long are the 1×4 s ?
> 
> - AlaskaGuy


28" and 15" lengths.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I will check the setup when I get home and see if I can dial it in. I am thinking I may have been using too much downward pressure and was bowing the boards as I ran them through.


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## Underdog (Oct 29, 2012)

My money is on the beds not being coplanar….


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## Bill_Steele (Aug 29, 2013)

My guess is that your outfeed table is slightly lower than the top of your knives (at the top of their rotation) and each time you pass the board you take a little bit more from the front of the board. You'll have a tough time getting the quality you're looking for until the knives are the same height as the outfeed or within a few thou.

Just a guess.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

Sorry. It was late. One quick correction to my earlier post. As everyone else has said, firm pressure should be on the outfeed side of the jointer once the board has passed over the cutter head.


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## PeteK (Aug 23, 2016)

I will check the knives to the outfeed table height. I don't know that I really have a high quality straight edge. I generally use my metal square.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

> I will check the knives to the outfeed table height. I don t know that I really have a high quality straight edge. I generally use my metal square.
> 
> - PeteK


Your metal square should be good enough. The key is that ALL of the adjustments should be made. Blade height is important but can only be set properly AFTER the tables are coplanar across the length and width of the jointer. Otherwise you're chasing your tail.


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## Bill_Steele (Aug 29, 2013)

If you're inclined-I find this tool works well when checking the height of the knives relative to the outfeed table.

https://www.amazon.com/Oneway-2289-Multi-Gauge/dp/B0002SA98I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1508171502&sr=8-1&keywords=multi+gauge


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Ditto. You want to be pushing down very hard on the outfeed side to make sure the wood registers off that surface. That will make the board conform to that (flat) surface, rather than bowing up and down as your pressure changes.
> 
> You never push down right over the cutterhead.
> 
> - jonah


Agree don't push down over the cutter head. Disagree "You want to be pushing down very hard". You don't want to distort the stock with too much down pressure.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

If you don't use enough downward pressure on the outfeed side, you end up letting the wood reference off the infeed table, which means you'll never, ever get a flat board.

I don't mean put all your weight on the board, but push hard enough to ensure the trailing end of the board isn't registering off the infeed table.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

+1


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## MrFid (Mar 9, 2013)

This is a pretty great article. Helped me dial in my Jet jointer perfectly.

http://www.rpwoodwork.com/blog/2014/08/26/verifying-the-alignment-of-jointer-knives/

Rob is a great writer. Highly recommend all of his blog.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> If you don t use enough downward pressure on the outfeed side, you end up letting the wood reference off the infeed table, which means you ll never, ever get a flat board.
> 
> I don t mean put all your weight on the board, but push hard enough to ensure the trailing end of the board isn t registering off the infeed table.
> 
> - jonah


There is a huge difference form "pushing down hard" and "using enough pressure" to do the job. If you push hard enough to distort the stock then it's like rew2115 says about all you're doing is simulating a planer.

I've had 4 joiners over the past 43 years. Even if I say so myself I'm pretty good 4 squaring rough cut stock.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

If you have a thinner board that is severely cupped, you'll want to take some partial passes before you try a full length pass. Once you're ready for a full length pass, you're ready to push down hard on the outfeed side.

The longer and heavier the board, the harder you'll need to push down. When jointing the ~8ft long 8/4 side rails for the bed I made, for example, I had to bear down quite hard to make sure I was properly registering on the outfeed table.


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## cathode (May 18, 2014)

Stupid question: If your infeed and outfeed tables are dead parallel (within, say, 0.001" or so), and you trust that they're dead flat as well, then shouldn't it be irrelevant whether you're pushing down on infeed side or outfeed side?


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

> Stupid question: If your infeed and outfeed tables are dead parallel (within, say, 0.001" or so), and you trust that they re dead flat as well, then shouldn t it be irrelevant whether you re pushing down on infeed side or outfeed side?
> 
> - William Shelley


"No such thing as a stupid question".

The technique is to transfer pressure from the outfeed side to the infeed table once the board crosses over the cutters. That also prevents you pushing the end of the board down onto the cutters thus causing snipe, especially with edge jointing IMO.

As someone else stated earlier, too much pressure on the outfeed while pushing down on the infeed will distort the board like it's going through a planer. A planer controls thickness of a board that is flat on one face. A jointer makes it flat on one face so it can then be planed.

The normal procedure that I use is to joint an edge and a face then put the jointed edge against the fence of the table saw and trim the unjointed edge. Then put it through the planer with the jointed face down. All of this should be done before milling to final width, thickness and length. Milling to the final dimensions before this means your stock will be smaller than desired after jointing and planing.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> If you have a thinner board that is severely cupped, you ll want to take some partial passes before you try a full length pass. Once you re ready for a full length pass, you re ready to push down hard on the outfeed side.
> 
> The longer and heavier the board, the harder you ll need to push down. When jointing the ~8ft long 8/4 side rails for the bed I made, for example, I had to bear down quite hard to make sure I was properly registering on the outfeed table.
> 
> - jonah


You are blowing this a little out of proportion. The OP is using 1×4's 15 t0 28'' long on s bench top jointer. Jointing 8/4 stock 8' is a different matter. Unless you are a gorilla distort 8/4 stock. Much different that 3/4 stock. I no beginner either when it comes to joint heavy thick wide stock either.



















In all fairness different condition can call for different technique, but distorting you stock doesn't get you very far.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> Stupid question: If your infeed and outfeed tables are dead parallel (within, say, 0.001" or so), and you trust that they re dead flat as well, then shouldn t it be irrelevant whether you re pushing down on infeed side or outfeed side?
> - William Shelley\


That would basically only be true if the stock was already dead flat… which then begs the question as to why you would be jointing it in the first place 

Cheers,
Brad


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

An extruded aluminum straight edge is cheap and pretty damn accurate. Perfect for your purposes.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

2 min video Jointer Basics - Using it Right addresses your original post.

Your fist sentence says you just got this. If it wasn't new (and even if it is) it could probably use a good tune up.

Good luck.


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## Ox95 (Oct 12, 2017)

Did you buy this used? If so your blades are probably out of adjustment. I had this exact issue with an old craftsman jointer. Grab an ALUMINUM straight edge, place it overy the blade from the out feed table and MANUALLY rotate the blades. The knife should lift the straight edge and move it aboUT 1/8 inch towards the indeed table. If it doesn't, the blades are to low. If it moves it further the blades are to high. It should have come with an adjustment jig.

If not I swear by this one https://www.amazon.com/ROK-Planer-Jointer-Magnetic-Setting/dp/B01N1VD4EK/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1508212950&sr=8-5&keywords=Jointer+blade+jig.

I hope this helps, if you need help with set up pm me.


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## KTNC (Sep 12, 2017)

> Stupid question: If your infeed and outfeed tables are dead parallel (within, say, 0.001" or so), and you trust that they re dead flat as well, then shouldn t it be irrelevant whether you re pushing down on infeed side or outfeed side?
> 
> - William Shelley


Hi William:

It would be disastrous to push on the infeed side. To see why imagine an exaggerated case where the infeed table is way lower than the outfeed - like you were trying to remove 1/2". As you got to the end of the cut, the majority of the board would be on the outfeed side and would rear up as the corner of the end went diving into the cutters. Yes, I know we don't try to take that much in one go, it just helps to see the problem.


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## KTNC (Sep 12, 2017)

Hi PeteK:

You didn't say which model you had so I looked up the 6" Delta Benchtop jointer that Amazon is selling. It's model 37-061. In the manual for that model - page 10, it explains how to get your cutters in the correct relationship to the outfeed table. The outfeed table is not adjustable, so you have to set the cutters. I bring this up because I had a similar experience when I started using my jointer. The more times I ran the board through the worse it got. I discovered it was my outfeed table set incorrectly relative to the knives. On my jointer, I can raise/lower the outfeeed table but you have to set the knives. What I found was that when my outeed table was too high, I got the problem you have - press two edges together and they touch in the middle but gap on the end. When my outfeed table was too low the gap would be in the middle and the ends would touch.

Good luck!


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> 2 min video Jointer Basics - Using it Right addresses your original post.
> 
> Your fist sentence says you just got this. If it wasn t new (and even if it is) it could probably use a good tune up.
> 
> ...


At very end of that video is why you don't push down hard.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

This one is good too. 
1. Reminded me that you need to slide the fence forward to expose only enough blade for the width of the face. 
2. Also that the face must be flat *before* jointing the edge with the flat face against the fence. 
3. Grain direction is important 
4. Basically little or no pressure on infeed table.

Thanks PeteK. This has been a good review for me.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

> 2 min video Jointer Basics - Using it Right addresses your original post.
> 
> Your fist sentence says you just got this. If it wasn t new (and even if it is) it could probably use a good tune up.
> 
> ...


Neither I nor anyone else is advocating doing that. You'd never in a million years take a full length cut of that board right off the bat. Partial passes until it's mostly flat, then a full length one to finish it.


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## DustyM (May 16, 2016)

> Stupid question: If your infeed and outfeed tables are dead parallel (within, say, 0.001" or so), and you trust that they re dead flat as well, then shouldn t it be irrelevant whether you re pushing down on infeed side or outfeed side?
> 
> - William Shelley
> 
> ...


Andy, buddy, wish I had gotten this advice 3 months back 

Since then, I've switched to using this method. It's worked out much better for me since, given me much less resistance while face jointing and edge jointing (a fresh coat of paste wax certainly helped), and given me much better results. Suppose I should have known I was doing something wrong, though, since it felt like I was "fighting" the machine.


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