# Coronavirus risks associated with N95 cool-flow valves



## TheSnekkerShow (Feb 1, 2020)

I'm relatively new here (long-time viewer, recent member) and don't want to break any rules by posting a link to my YouTube channel, so if an admin wants to delete this and post something else as a replacement that's fine. I just figured a lot of woodworkers have these and should not misunderstand the level of protection they provide. In short, the cool-flow masks have a rubber flap that lets the air from your lungs flow out without being filtered by the N95 mask fabric, so they are inadequate for preventing the airborne transmission of the virus from sick people, and can actually increase risk by providing a false sense of security for those who don't know.

*One of these masks is extremely dangerous*


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

That's how my P100 filters work inhale through the filter exhale through a small port. I'm not a mask scientist.
I do think it's not pushing air out in the same fashion as a uncovered mouth.
The inside of my mask get pretty wet but at least it can be cleaned because it's rubber.
So far I haven't worn mine out in public

Good Luck


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

Please go to

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/respirator-use-faq.html

Please read everything there about "Respirators"

PM me if after doing that you cannot see that a "respirator" marked as N95 doesn't offer the exact same protection, as any other labeled as N95, or for that matter P100, N100, whatever. All of them will block a particle 0.3 microns in size.

Then please go back to U tube, and post a correction. The news media is doing a fine job as is, spreading misinformation, and causing panic.

Thank you for your attention.

The world….....


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## TheSnekkerShow (Feb 1, 2020)

Keep reading the page you linked down to "My N95 respirator has an exhalation valve, is that okay?", where the CDC confirms the exact point I made in the video:

"...However, respirators with exhalation valves should not be used in situations where a sterile field must be maintained (e.g., during an invasive procedure in an operating or procedure room) *because the exhalation valve allows unfiltered exhaled air to escape into the sterile field*."

Now ask yourself this question: If you were in a car, office, grocery store, doctor's office, or workshop with someone who was infected, and the exhalation flap was reversed so it only opened when you inhaled, would you feel comfortable with that? I'm just explaining something that should be common sense.



> Please go to
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/respirator-use-faq.html
> 
> ...


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

Respirators with the exhalation valve are not going to filter exhaled air. A person that has corona or other illness should NOT use a mask with a valve, it will spread the disease. Only the inhaled air is filtered. Yes, the INCOMING air is filtered to the same level, but NOT the exhaled air.


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## unclearthur (Jul 4, 2013)

> Respirators with the exhalation valve are not going to filter exhaled air. A person that has corona or other illness should NOT use a mask with a valve, it will spread the disease. Only the inhaled air is filtered. Yes, the INCOMING air is filtered to the same level, but NOT the exhaled air.
> 
> - ibewjon


That seems right. If your purpose is to stop breathing in the virus, the valved mask is OK. If your purpose is to filter the air you are exhaling (to protect others, because you may be sick), then the valve is not OK.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

I've only seen respirators being used by people not wanting to get the virus. People who are ill, need all the O2 they can get, if they aren't intubated already. Any mask, respirator, or even a towel wrapped around your head is going to increase your difficulty in breathing.

" because the exhalation valve allows unfiltered exhaled air to escape into the sterile field."

You probably should do some research on what a "sterile field" is, and when one would be working with one. It has absolutely no connection to a person wearing a respirator to keep from getting a virus.

Also look at the projections of the ARC a cough makes, and this might explain to you why they are suggesting 6 to 8 feet of space between people. Even Olympic level athletes cannot cough a straight line for more than around 2 feet, and none of them could make it dip, and then go upward to go into the vent of the respirator you don't like.

I think the only way that mask could be risky is if you wore it, and did handstands. I pretty much think if you are wearing a mask to keep from getting ill, handstands aren't on the list of things you want to be doing.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> A person that has corona or other illness should NOT use a mask
> - ibewjon


That part is absolutely correct.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Thanks for that reminder.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

I believe this is ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT. The reason advising everyone to wear a mask is the majority of carriers have no symptoms and do not know they have and can spread the virus. The mask greatly reduces the possibility they will spread the virus. I do not know the recommendation for those who are really sick at home or hospital.

Reducing your possible exposure is secondary and not very effective. You wear a mask to protect OTHERS. Wearing one to protect yourself is largely ineffective unless it is a full sealed face mask with powered forced air. If you have a cough, you have no business leaving your house for any reason. Period.

The vent on a mask can be blocked with a bit of tape. Unless you are exercising, you will have plenty of flow without it.

.


> A person that has corona or other illness should NOT use a mask
> - ibewjon
> 
> That part is absolutely correct.
> ...


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

Adding to tvrgeek ´s comments. In Czech republic it was their approach that everyone in the entire country wear a mask, not to protect themselves individually, but the reverse; and they began very early on. This approach has led to that country having the lowest(I think) infection rate in Europe, and maybe worldwide. Of course, they also locked down the border early on as well, so that was also a factor.

I was also gonna suggest that the exhaust valve could be glued with some locktite, but tvrgeek ´s tape idea is good too.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

I was not quoted completely in post 7. It should say " not wear a mask with the exhalation valve if a person is sick ". The problem I see on tv so often is people do not wear a mask correctly. Nose uncovered, metal strip not formed to face for a better seal, only one strap in use, and many other issues. For my job, I was mask and respirator fit many times, with training how to wear them. At a chemical or nuclear plant, you have to wear correctly, or be breathing chemicals or radioactive particles into your lungs.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

I am the guy licensed, and certified to do the fitting. So I'll stick to my answers.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

Many people have a mild case and spread the virus before becoming ill enough for the hospital and oxygen. That is how this is spreading. And people who still believe it is a hoax. Now some preachers are saying a mask is a Muslim plot to take over the country. And the goofy churches that are packing religious services to help spread the virus as an Easter gift are not helping either.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

> I am the guy licensed, and certified to do the fitting. So I ll stick to my answers.
> 
> - therealSteveN


Steve what's your opinion on Sebo vacuum cleaner bags. I have a home made mask and I'm adding a layer of a sebo filter bag. My uneducated view is it's alot like a filter mask.








I rather not open my p100 organic filter and wear to the grocery. 
Thanks


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

> Many people have a mild case and spread the virus before becoming ill enough for the hospital and oxygen. That is how this is spreading. And people who still believe it is a hoax. Now some preachers are saying a mask is a Muslim plot to take over the country. And the goofy churches that are packing religious services to help spread the virus as an Easter gift are not helping either.
> 
> - ibewjon


This is sorta funny. Here, we have many migrant workers from Morocco, and they were the first to be wearing masks, and there were more of them on average wearing masks than Spaniards. Now, it is about even, around 40% of everyone.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> Many people have a mild case and spread the virus before becoming ill enough for the hospital and oxygen. That is how this is spreading. And people who still believe it is a hoax. Now some preachers are saying a mask is a Muslim plot to take over the country. And the goofy churches that are packing religious services to help spread the virus as an Easter gift are not helping either.
> 
> - ibewjon


This isn't what I am hearing, and or reading about. These people with a "mild case" as you say are still febrile. Anyone with a febrile illness needs to self quarantine. Of course if you have a fever from any form of illness, you have the illness, not some entry level illness. Unless you are saying they are only really sick if they are dead?

Haven't heard anything about any Muslim plots either. Exactly which news outlet are you getting your news from?


> ?


???


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

IMHO if I'm looking for advice on bandsaws I'd come here. If I'm looking for the best advice on a deadly virus pandemic I'd go to my physician or the CDC website. And by all means PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE ignore the Muslim plot conspiracy theories. COVID could give a sh*t about your religion and is an equal opportunity killer.

Centers for Disease Control Corona Virus Info


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> I am the guy licensed, and certified to do the fitting. So I ll stick to my answers.
> 
> - therealSteveN
> 
> ...


Not at all familiar with a Sebo vac bag as a mask. BUT health care workers all over the country are quite happy to get a home made mask, made of heavy enough fabric to block the spray from your average cough. Gross as it may sound that is what everyone is trying to avoid. The virus itself is sub particular by the standards I have read about, so even HEPA won't stop it, BUT the virus isn't atomized, dry, and free floating either. It's usually launched at you with a slew of splittle, mucous, and whatever, after someone hacks out a cough. So in reality a bandana would be a lot better than nothing at all. Sure better than an open mouth.

My Wife has been busy at the sewing machine making simple doubled cloth masks with elastic hoops to go over the ears. She got the pattern online, and has sewed up all she could make with the elastic she had on hand. Naturally all the elastic is gone from the sewing stores. In our neck of the woods every able bodied Woman, Man, and Child who can sew are making masks.

I have been scaring the little old Ladies with my mask that I go shopping with. It's only a half face, but I do have some P100's on it. I didn't want them to really freak with the full face and cartridge filters, looking all storm trooper and all. LMAO….










Here are a few of a new fabric my Wife has made. I'm going to have her make me one of a solid color, so I don't look like a beach cabana. Double thick as they are, I wouldn't have any concern going out in public with one of these on. Whoever made this pattern, it's a pretty good design, and it can fit smaller Females, and I am 6' 2", 280, and it fits me too.


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## kroginold (Jul 13, 2015)

Just saw this post and want to give some relevant information. In response to the OP, neither mask is dangerous in and of themselves, but they have different uses. When having an interaction with someone who is infected or presumed infected, I am trying to protect only myself, so the vented mask is going to do that. If I presume that I may be either infected or an asymptomatic carrier, then the vented mask is not adequate. When doing a procedure on a patient who is not infected, I am most concerned about maintaining a sterile environment and protecting the patient, but if I am intubating a patient who has the virus, then I am most interested in using the device that offers the most protection to myself. Because the best way for me to avoid giving this to someone else is to not contract the virus myself. So as I said to start with, both masks have appropriate uses, and because of the severe shortage right now, I have to consider using both types of mask in the appropriate circumstances. I am a hobby woodworker but my day job is Emergency Physician.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

Bless you Doc, for fighting the good fight. 20 + years in ER myself as an RN.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Food for thought no one talks about:

While N95's will not FULLY protect the wearer against viruses, any more than does a MERVE 11 filter for the heating and/or cooling system, they can help.

Picture hanging a Walmart bed sheet from the ceiling, filling your leaf blower with a cup of baking flour, standing directly in front of the sheet and pointing the blower at it, then turning it on. Only a minute fraction of the flour will go through. Even then, only because it was hurled at the sheet at high speed.

Now, do the same thing, with a new sheet, but hit the sheet at an angle. Anywhere the flour comes in contact with sheet material, it will be, for the most part, stopped.

Now, switch to a $300.00, high thread count sheet. The stopping power is increased.

Of course, it can be said it's the virus critters that get through that are the problem.

The latter aside, it must be remembered viruses are not little worm like creatures that will wiggle their way on through the mask to get at you.

The virus is about .1 to .3 microns, so even a few of our better dust collection filters and MERV 13 HVAC filters (don't swap your home filters out, it could destroy your blower motor and even damage the heat pump, if ice builds up because the system can't breath) would catch many or all of them.

Many of the virus critters will be hitchhikers on things that masks will catch.

Then there is the absurdity that was being pushed that only health workers needed masks, as if they, magically, worked for them, but not for anyone else. Not long after, I saw health workers switching from the absurd surgical masks (good for protecting people around the wearer, for the most part, and which should NEVER be found in a woodshop, sheetrock operation and so on) to N95's. Why? Anyway, I was mocked and ridiculed for saying N95s were better than common surgeons masks and suggesting they could help protect us, but look at us now.

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/coronavirus-pollution-masks-n95-surgical-mask/


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

Some people I know said that story about masks being the first step toward a Muslim take over is circulating through their church. Really a sad thought that people believe it. I didn't see it on the news.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

Thanks Steve, thanks Kroginold.

Good Luck everyone


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## pontic (Sep 25, 2016)

The CDC never said that Covid-19 positive pts. should not wear masks. In fact they say the opposite. 
I repeat this virus is not airborne but droplet borne. There is a difference droplets do travel but not as far. they fall in an ark. 
Valved masks are good for routine use for those who DON'T have the virus. they last longer.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

What the CDC did say is, "[w]e don't recommend. . . ." As I pointed out to people, not recommending against something is, vastly, different from recommending against something.


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## fuigb (Apr 21, 2010)

Hey, anyone else have N95 masks in the stockpile? Consider donating yours to the local hospital or first responders. Up my way thete are still not enough to go around; my dust-protection arsenal contained a few so they went to nurses who had none. Do the right thing if you have them.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> Hey, anyone else have N95 masks in the stockpile? Consider donating yours to the local hospital or first responders. Up my way thete are still not enough to go around; my dust-protection arsenal contained a few so they went to nurses who had none. Do the right thing if you have them.
> 
> - fuigb


I agree with what you are saying. As I posted my Wife is busy sewing so local Health providers can have something. Our local hospital has designated drop points, and they have been manned, and usually have a cop. The cop is there to make sure those who always look to make profit from misery don't hijack masks to sell for a profit.

I'm only adding that because it's another reality we have to deal with. Make sure a donation gets to who you intend it to go to.

Sad that this is true. Unfortunately the areas all around us in SW Ohio have some of the highest Heroin addiction rates I've seen published, and these folks will rob and steal all day for their candy. Again, quite sad.


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## TheSnekkerShow (Feb 1, 2020)

For anyone unsure of what the CDC said about wearing face masks, remember that the internet is archived. This is from the CDC website on March 1st:

https://web.archive.org/web/20200301214941/https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/prevention-treatment.html










The CDC very intentionally communicated that they didn't recommend wearing face masks, and they did this because everyone with an ounce of common sense wanted to wear a face mask to defend against a virus known to travel through the air, enter through the mouth and nose, and attack the respiratory system. This deliberate messaging caused many people, who would apparently believe an "expert" if they sold them bulletproof lotion, to propagate that you shouldn't wear a face mask if you weren't sick. The result was significantly more people becoming infected because they thought they could prevent an airborne virus from entering their lungs just by washing their hands a lot.

Never trust someone who has to rely on their job title or credentials to convince you that their argument is valid, if they fail to back up their argument with sound logic or evidence. Just because someone is educated doesn't necessarily mean they're intelligent.


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## TheSnekkerShow (Feb 1, 2020)

Great post, and thanks for the link. I was doing some non-medical testing tonight with an HVLP sprayer filled with black-dyed water, various types of fabric, and some white paper. I'm going to post a video shortly, but the short version is that the double-layer cloth masks like the ones therealSteveN's wife is making are way more effective than single-layer, assuming they seal properly around the nose, and assuming whatever is in the air is prone to sticking to the fabric once it makes contact (e.g., moisture droplets).



> Then there is the absurdity that was being pushed that only health workers needed masks, as if they, magically, worked for them, but not for anyone else. Not long after, I saw health workers switching from the absurd surgical masks (good for protecting people around the wearer, for the most part, and which should NEVER be found in a woodshop, sheetrock operation and so on) to N95 s. Why? Anyway, I was mocked and ridiculed for saying N95s were better than common surgeons masks and suggesting they could help protect us, but look at us now.


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## pontic (Sep 25, 2016)

I have a supply of N95 masks and they are for work. I don't have enough of them. When they get down to the last few I guess the vacume cleaner bag- pillow slip sewn masks that me and my wife made.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

It appears I might have misunderstood your posts and you may not be wholly adverse to wearing N95 masks health professionals switched to.


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## OnhillWW (Jan 10, 2015)

"The CDC very intentionally communicated that they didn t recommend wearing face masks, and they did this because everyone with an ounce of common sense wanted to wear a face mask to defend against a virus known to travel through the air, enter through the mouth and nose, and attack the respiratory system. This deliberate messaging caused many people, who would apparently believe an "expert" if they sold them bulletproof lotion, to propagate that you shouldn't wear a face mask if you weren't sick. The result was significantly more people becoming infected because they thought they could prevent an airborne virus from entering their lungs just by washing their hands a lot." From above Post

Unfortunately this is all too true and I personally believe that at some time in the future we will find out that this message was crafted by someone who was not a scientist or Dr. Best case scenario is that it was well known that there were / are not enough masks of any type available for all who wanted them and that via this msg the bulk of what was available would be available to first responders, health aids and medical workers. Certainly the people who need them the most and that they should get first priority and that the rest of the public should practice social distancing etc. to minimise their exposure. I knew right away that it was a false statement (I was a certified sterile processor) and resent the use of misinformation. Look, the flu shot for the past three years was determined to be 37-50% (2019-2020), 37-50%(2018-2019) and 37% effective for 2017-2018. So any mask that fits fairly snugly will afford some degree of protection both for the wearer and those around them. The CDC touts the flu shot and should have recommended as most asian nations do that EVERYONE wear a mask - some protection is better than no protection, it really is that simple. But in an effort to save the front line workers they told a white lie rather than telling the truth. The real crime here is why the greatest super power ever to exist on earth was short on $ .80 respirators and ventilators knowing full well the probability of either a biological weapon, or the natural evolution of a pandemic causing microbe. Feckless leadership at multiple levels of government put us where we are and where we are going.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

On, religiously, relying on ANY alphabet agency (government agency) for guidance:

1) I can post page upon page showing agencies of government are not the best choice to insure sound decisions.

For example, an entire court system was declared a RICO enterprise.

Add to this, the well established (public record) of agents with conflicts of interest making decisions that affect over twenty to fifty percent of American's lives.

From there, we can go to nuclear tests using military personnel, STD test on black folk and so on.

We can, also, go review judicial conduct commission reports and so on to review the, seemingly, innumerable reports of judges who committed criminal acts and were removed from the bench.

and on and on it goes.


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## unclearthur (Jul 4, 2013)

> The real crime here is why the greatest super power ever to exist on earth was short on $ .80 respirators and ventilators knowing full well the probability of either a biological weapon, or the natural evolution of a pandemic causing microbe. Feckless leadership at multiple levels of government put us where we are and where we are going.
> - OnhillWW


Taiwan started screening people from China for COVID-19 on Dec 31. Almost 100 days ago. Making masks or sanitizer is not difficult. One company in China makes 5 M masks / day. Taiwan makes 10 M / week. We probably taught them all how to make masks. But we don't have any masks. We don't have sanitizer. 100 days of political failure.

Everyone wearing a mask in public during a pandemic would be a public health no-brainer if there were enough masks. Watch any news footage of street scenes in China today - everyone has masks on. But if there's not enough masks, then they need to be preserved for health care workers. I think that explains the CDC position above.

BTW, the CDC is now saying to wear cloth masks in public, but to preserve N95 masks for health care workers. They even have a video up on how to make a simple cloth mask.


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## unclearthur (Jul 4, 2013)

Also have read that even bad masks will not only lower the probability of infection but will likely lower the intensity of any infection you receive, as they will be blocking some of the virus from entering your lungs. The less of the virus initially present, the more your antibodies are effective in combating it.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

*Boys* and *Girls*, I have come in late and haven't read ALL the posts so I don't know whether my addition is constructive or I'm blowing smoke out of my cloaca.

I happen to be a natural hoarder (workshop and kitchen consumables) so I didn't have to make my first pilgrimage to a supermarket till a fair time into the panic. I only made my deliberate treasure hunt excursion to Bunnings (our "home depot" equivalent in Australia) in search of protective masks… and then only because I thought they may come in handy not because i was convinced that they were a must have (at the time). The cupboard was bare.

Foraged through my workshop gear for dust masks… I normally use a *Trend faceshield* so all other dust protection were archived. I came across this pristine "Dust-be-Gone" face mask. 








(I also found some el-cheapo dust masks and a couple sets of these TOTO-BOBO face masks (and filters),








made of soft molded plastic and provides a perfect seal).

RTFM'd (on the Dust-be-Gone) and with warm soapy water it cleaned up spotlessly. Now I cannot vouch for it's total affectiveness, but through it's design, it fits well and seals bloody perfectl. Being washable will definitely extend it's life.
I mention this as my local woodworking supplier had stock (I bought another one for the missus and they still had stock) and some people may like to follow up with their vendors and if push comes to shove, they are better than a "snot rag" (handkerchief) around your dial and you can leave the N95 for the sole use of *first responders*.

Now I belong to the school that believes masks are primarily effective in stopping your spittle being shared by the rest of the world and only somewhat effective in acting as a catcher's glove for others' spittle… so by wearing these I feel that I am least making an effort to protect my "neighbours" when I happen to leave the house and interact with foreigners.

When it comes to protection, I am hoping thay putting one of these little buggers over my ponce, might give that additional supplement to my "Dust-be-Gone" mask,








as protection from other "spitters".
I haven't resorted to this second line of defence (face shield) but I do appreciate that for it to be affective, it needs to be cleaned using a good isopropyl wipe before parking it for the next use.

I may be way off track but I'm hoping these two items may assist if I have to go out into public as unfortunately I have no alternative and mentioning them may give others out there some ideas, when backed into a corner.

If I am on track, all these masks are not worth a pinch of ******************** if you take them off and don't wash your bloody hands before woofing into that pizza you just went out to buy…

*PS.* The Trend face shield may be a tad overboard but I would feel 100% safe® in it…. so if you have one… charge up that bloody battery and while you can, buy a backup battery.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

"as protection from other "spitters".
I haven't resorted to this second line of defence (face shield) but I do appreciate that for it to be affective, it needs to be cleaned using a good isopropyl wipe before parking it for the next use."

Against a hacked spray of yeckkkkkk you will be as safe as a person could be. Just remember if you do get hit with a bombardment from an ill looking person, do NOT touch, and just go straight into the shower shield and all, to sanitize once home. OR lean way over and spritz it clean with a spray bottle of Bleach mixed 1/3 cup, per gallon of water.

You can carry that in a self fashioned holster, and don't leave home without either.

You can also use the bleach spray on any person insensitive enough to hack on you. It may not kill off any of their bacteria, but it may help them remember not to hack on you.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

I thought someone found you could autoclave a lot of the paper masks about 5 times before they start to degrade.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

> Some people I know said that story about masks being the first step toward a Muslim take over is circulating through their church. Really a sad thought that people believe it. I didn t see it on the news.
> 
> - ibewjon


People will believe almost anything. Which is why the are attempting to destroy 5G cell towers to stop covid 19 from spreading


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

So if 5g spreads covid, does 4g spread the flu? Or maybe measels? I think it is the internet in general spreading a total lack of common sense.


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## OnhillWW (Jan 10, 2015)

There has always been a lack of good sense, the internet and cable have just given the fool standing on the corner barking nonsense a megaphone.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Are the P95 masks as effective as the N95 masks?

To effectively use a face mask with an exhail valve, one could place a linen handkerchief or other cloth material inside the mask; maybe even facial tissue or toilet paper. The idea being if you have the virus and don't know it yet, or you are immune to the virus, but could also spread it, the mask with the cloth inside would act as a 2 way blockage of virus germs. It may not be 100% effective, but better than nothing.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

"Cover your cough or sneeze with a tissue, then *throw the tissue in the trash*." quote from the CDC which I feel is the wrong advice to put out because anyone who approaches that trash, not knowing what was tossed there, is in danger of being infected. Better to either burn the tissue or put into a plastic bag, maybe even emerged in water.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> .... Against a hacked spray of yeckkkkkk you will be as safe as a person could be. Just remember if you do get hit with a bombardment from an ill looking person, do NOT touch, and just go straight into the shower shield and all, to sanitize once home. OR lean way over and spritz it clean with a spray bottle of Bleach mixed 1/3 cup, per gallon of water.
> - therealSteveN


Thanks for the "reasurance" *t'r'S'*.

Talking about a bleach cocktail… unfortunately empty shelves at our supermarkets. No sanitisers, wipes or anything that can be considered virus unfriendly short of tossin' a tin of cat food at it.

Maybe a tip for others in the same situation. I did/do have quite a few litres of metho (denatured alcohol to you guys) that I had stockpiled for shellacing. Mix that with some *glycerin* (still readily available on the Internet) and I am told you have a reasonable spray on… In a small attomiser, it's another line of defence readily carried in the pocket. 









Not sure how effective my workshop suggestions are, however, when the cupboard is bare in our supermarkets and chemists, home/workshop remedies may be better than nothing.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> Which is why the are attempting to destroy 5G cell towers to stop covid 19 from spreading
> 
> - controlfreak


STOP!!!!! Tell me that's not true. UN F%$#ing believable.

All I can say to that is BE Alert…....America needs more lerts…


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

Duck, make sure your Alcohol is 70% (strength, not amount), and it will kill germs by itself.

Too bad you couldn't get bleach, sounds like a terrible waste of alcohol…... We may need to resort to drastic measures if this goes on much longer. I'm not certain Alcohol production, well at least the kind in Adult beverages is listed as essential.


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

> Which is why the are attempting to destroy 5G cell towers to stop covid 19 from spreading
> 
> - controlfreak
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, the irrational fear of these towers is true. I have read that there are people attempting to burn them down. Cant vouch for the truth of that though, could be just a rumor that is gaining steam.

Duck, I know a guy who knows a guy who has this friend that has been drunk for the last 40 years and has bathed about twice in that time. I am sure the virus wont go anywhere near him. Just saying…........


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> Are the P95 masks as effective as the N95 masks?
> 
> To effectively use a face mask with an exhail valve, one could place a linen handkerchief or other cloth material inside the mask; maybe even facial tissue or toilet paper. The idea being if you have the virus and don t know it yet, or you are immune to the virus, but could also spread it, the mask with the cloth inside would act as a 2 way blockage of virus germs. It may not be 100% effective, but better than nothing.
> 
> - MrRon


Ron, to tell the truth I am not sure, but I am using a P100 filter on my go mask. My reasoning is we know the N models don't tolerate being wet hardly at all. You can see the folks wearing one for a week, and they all have a huge wet spot at their mouth.

P rated is made for use with oils, so my thinking is a little moisture from our off gassing won't bother them a bit. I haven't been going continuously, but my go mask has been used 8 times, for about an hour each tiime, maybe more, and it's dry as can be, and has always been dry when I get home each time I was out. An N mask is usually good for about 20 to 30 minutes, before you get the wet spot.

BUT, on my go mask, I am not blowing out over the filter material. Probably why I bought it all those years ago.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> Duck, make sure your Alcohol is 70% (strength, not amount), and it will kill germs by itself.
> 
> Too bad you couldn t get bleach, sounds like a terrible waste of alcohol…... We may need to resort to drastic measures if this goes on much longer. I m not certain Alcohol production, well at least the kind in Adult beverages is listed as essential.
> 
> - therealSteveN


Non-drinking metho is 95% ethanol (I jokingly refer to 100% as "drinking-grade" metho), which I believe is more than sufficient. The *glucerine* is designed to soften the alcoohol and make it more hand wipe friendly. "Recipes" suggest tee-tree oil to scent it up, but if my family can tolerate my fatrs, they can tolerate the smell of metho.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

There is alot of alcohol being produced, but it is being mixed with gasoline. And many small craft distilleries have converted to hand sanitizer instead of beverages.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

You can buy "everclear" alcohol at the liquor store. It is 95% pure grain alcohol.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Just parroting here (a disclaimer with regard to my expertise), but denatured alcohol is the product of government genius. It's formulated to injure, if government doesn't get its tax.

We are, frequently, told getting denatured alcohol on our skin is bad news and that even smelling it, over time, is problematic.

From web pages produced in simple searches:

"Denatured alcohol (methylated spirits) is ethanol (CAS 64-17-5) that has been treated to make it unfit for human consumption. The main additive is typically methanol (10 percent), but isopropyl alcohol (2-propanol), methyl ethyl ketone, methyl isobutyl ketone, acetone, or other substances may also be used."

"Methanol has a high toxicity in humans. As little as 10 mL of pure methanol when drunk is metabolized into formic acid, which can cause permanent blindness by destruction of the optic nerve. ... Ethanol is sometimes denatured (adulterated), and made poisonous, by the addition of methanol."

"Methanol is extremely toxic to humans if ingested or if vapors are inhaled. Direct exposure to methanol should be avoided, as methanol can be harmful if swallowed, absorbed through the skin, or inhaled. ... Methanol can also degrease the skin, which may cause dermatitis."

https://labproinc.com/blog/chemicals-and-solvents-9/post/what-are-the-differences-between-denatured-and-non-denatured-ethanol-78

In short, and sadly, if making sanitizer, it has to be 180) Everclear or the 99% isopropyl (about $140.00/5 gal).


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Now, regarding 5g. For most of us and even experts, school is out on its dangers. Beer virus may be one, but that's just the way of "[h]ere, hold my beer" moments and long talks that shouldn't have happened.

Meanwhile, there are many far more learned on such matters than most, if not all of us on this forum and who are concerned with radio wave pollution.

My my electronics days and relative interests, I know:

1) Radar frequencies can weld things not intended to be welded, light distant fluorescents, are indicated to have the potential to make someone sterile, and so on.

2) We know microwaves are dangerous, in close proximity and if not properly contained.

3) Radio frequency currents act differently than common 50 or 60 hz household current. Too, they are, often, associated with much higher voltages than we are accustomed to dealing with elsewhere.

4) People died with no obvious and sound explanation in factories. It was only after a time and much investigation the problem was traced to an industrial motor, with a high horse power output. The motor emitted very high EMF.

Years down the road from hearing about such incidents, I was using an EMF meter to test the seal of a micro wave. the microwave tested fine (for the type of energy the meter read), but still read very high elsewhere in the room. Toasters, stoves and other things tested fine, but a simple, seemingly well running fan produced reading from clear across the room.

5) One of the big power lines runs through a friend's 100 acre field. His field uses an irrigation circle. For those unfamiliar with them, the have a single "pivot" at the very center of the field from which all the electrical, electronics and thousands of gallons of water are fed.

The circle (big surprise) extends across the field and is made of heavy iron frame work to support about 8" iron water pipes feeding sprinklers ever few feet across it.

The unit is in sections about 120 or so feet long. At the end of each section are what are called a tower. A tower, of course, supports the spans. Large truck, tractor or similar wheels and tires allow the circle to move around the field.

If the system meets obstacles and has to reverse to continue irrigation, it may be called a wiper, instead of a circle, but it operates the same way.

Because my friend's field has those huge transmission towers running through his field, the circle stops in line with (parallel) to and under the transmission towers. When that happens, touch the circle frame could be deadly, if the wiper is not earth grounded. This is because of the induced voltage in the frame work of the circle, which has thrown employees a few feet.

Add to the above:

1) Pollution we toss into our immediate environments with Internet routers (WIFI)

2) Concerns about the effects of radio waves from cell telephones, including from cordless base stations.

3) Many things are done in the name of profits and competition and with the "_t hasn't been proven to be dangerous" rather than the "[l]et's error on the side of caution" approach. Many of those are, later pulled from the market because of their dangers, but others are of the "[t]oo big to fail" category, per the same group who poison non-food grade ethanol.

In short, let the fun and games continue. We'll find out if someone made a mistake later._


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

> Which is why the are attempting to destroy 5G cell towers to stop covid 19 from spreading
> 
> - controlfreak
> 
> ...


True. Some towers were torched in the UK, that I know of (I'm not in the uK)

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/5g-cell-towers-torched-u-k-amid-bogus-coronavirus-theories-n1177361


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> ... True. Some towers were torched in the UK, that I know of (I m not in the uK)
> - Dark-Lightning


Yeah, I also torched my *5G*, and then the missus told me that it was *5 Grand* she withdrew from the bank for *19* provisions…

Personally I think we should solve one crisis at a time. Furthermore the cops won't let me out of the house with my pyrotecnic equipment due to curfews/lock-down.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> In short, and sadly, if making sanitizer, it has to be 180) Everclear or the 99% isopropyl (about $140.00/5 gal).
> - Kelly


Unfortunately, when the cupboard is bare we need to make do with what we have… It's the glycerin that can work with the "alcohol" to make it "more" human friendly… Lucky the missus says I'm not human.

Here in Australia, anything related to *anti-19* (and bloody dunny paper), flies off the shelves before they hit it. All I have to fall back on are provisions I have horded in my natural woodworking environment prior to this crisis.


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## TheSnekkerShow (Feb 1, 2020)

It took four months, but the CDC finally agrees:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html
"Masks with exhalation valves or vents should NOT be worn to help prevent the person wearing the mask from spreading COVID-19 to others (source control)."


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## Aaron312 (Jan 16, 2020)

It is very simple to block off the exhale valve. Then you have the same thing as an N95 mask with no valve. Yes, it will fog your glasses, but, oh well. This is what I do and it works fine. Certainly better that 90% of what I see out there. Both for me and for people around me.


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## stevejack (Apr 5, 2020)




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## MPython (Nov 30, 2018)

> Please go to
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/respirator-use-faq.html
> 
> ...


For what it's worth, the following is a direct quote from the CDC publication entitled, "Personal Protective Equipment: Questions and Answers" therealSteveN cited in his initial post:

"Respirators with exhalation valves protect the wearer from SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, but may not prevent the virus spreading from the wearer to others (that is, they may not be effective for source control). Until data are available to describe how effective respirators with exhalation valves are in preventing the spread of SARS-CoV-2 from the wearer to others:

Wear a respirator without an exhalation valve when both source control and respiratory protection are required.

If only a respirator with an exhalation valve is available and source control is needed, cover the exhalation valve with a surgical mask, procedure mask, or a cloth face covering that does not interfere with the respirator fit. "


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

All this mask talk is about how a mask makes people feel. It doesn't really matter how effective or ineffective it is. The wear a mask mandate doesn't come with any engineering specifications. Put whatever mask that is handy on and your good to go. If masks are as effective as people imagine they are covid cases would plummet within ten days of a mask mandate but I don't think data will show that to be the case. My routine has not really changed all that much other than not eating out and I stopped going to the gym. I just feel like people panting and grabing sweaty machine handles can't be good. I have worked every day and still go on sales calls. I just try to maintain my distance. Last week I went to a house where the husband and wife are both MD's. I had my mask in my pocket and she had one in her hand. I asked if she would like me to wear a mask. She said "I only picked this up in case you wanted me to wear one. I have had a mask on all day and sick of it. No need for a mask, come on in." True story.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

> Please go to
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/respirator-use-faq.html
> 
> ...


+1

I don't trust much what the CDC says. As far as I'm concerned they are a politicians. Has anyone tried to navigate the site? Its designed to make you give up!!

And if everyone is wearing a mask like their supposed to, what does it matter if a little bit escapes from the valve of the ONE PERSON IN 100 or 1000 who's wearing one with a valve?

And where are the scientific studies proving masks are effective at preventing a respiratory virus? The only one I've seen claims 65%, and that is only based on the effectiveness of droplet containment.

And what about single layer masks are useless, in fact, they will disperse large droplets in a sneeze into small, more dangerous one?

And what about people re-using masks? wearing them below their noses? handling their masks?

Logic tells me the risk of handling a contaminated mask is higher than not wearing one at all?

Evidence of misinformation: people wearing them riding a bike, walking along a hiking trail, standing by themselves at a crosswalk, and while driving alone in a vehicle. Is it ignorance, do the actually want to wear a mask, is it virtue signalling?

And when will the mask ordinances be rescinded? I suspect after the election…..............


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## Fresch (Feb 21, 2013)

Most people are wearing home made tee shirt mask, look at the Infection rates of the people who wear face coverings (Mideast) very high. Not working too good for them.

U.S., world death rate is 0.04%, why the total shut down?

Why do we keep see government officials not social distancing or wearing a mask when off camera?
Why can a governor travel to a hot spot, no mask, no social distancing, shaking hands, and will not quarantine himself yet demands and will charge you a fine plus uses state funds to follow and contact you?

I do believe there is a virus, I also believe it has been taken over politically.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

The man at the top is causing the problem calling it a hoax in the beginning, which got the true believers signing on, and helping to spread it more. Look at the govs in Florida and Georgia. No masks required. This virus is natural selection at work. Problem is it spreads to anyone. Even if a mask only helps a little, what harm is there in wearing one? This is not the place for politics, but people need to wise up.


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## Quadrophenia (Jan 21, 2020)

> The man at the top is causing the problem calling it a hoax in the beginning, which got the true believers signing on, and helping to spread it more. Look at the govs in Florida and Georgia. No masks required. This virus is natural selection at work. Problem is it spreads to anyone. Even if a mask only helps a little, what harm is there in wearing one? This is not the place for politics, but people need to wise up.
> 
> - ibewjon


 Did you even read what you wrote before saying "This is not the place for politics"? I'm not coming down on either side, but sometimes things people say just make my mind go in an endless loop.


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## stevejack (Apr 5, 2020)

There is so much lies, propaganda and fiction over this entire US Destroying hoax! I know I know we have to destroy our country over a virus with a 98% Survival rate! WOW! Here is just one admitted example of the lie that is CORONA VIRUS… Here is the Head of the Dr. Illinois Dept of Health Ngozi O. Ezike, MD of admitting what the real death rate is as opposed to the reported and recorded Deaths…. THAT IS CORRECT you heard her right LESS THAN 6%


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## stevejack (Apr 5, 2020)

Let Dr, Faucis illustrate the correct way to wear a mask!


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

I don't think for a minute that it matters who is in charge once the virus left China. Maybe one could create vaccines faster or come up with more PPE but we will never have an answer as to who, only speculation. Both parties want to use the virus politically but I say what's the point? If no significantly large place on earth that has done anything remotely close to eradicating the virus or having the lead politician prevent it. I find the politicizing of the virus bogas and repugnant regardless of who is doing it. It will be crickets when you ask a politician "what would you have done different". The virus is here and all we can do is manage it until we arrive at herd immunity or an highly effective vaccine shows up. Until then we are all along for the ride.


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## Fresch (Feb 21, 2013)

> I don t think for a minute that it matters who is in charge once the virus left China. Maybe one could create vaccines faster or come up with more PPE but we will never have an answer as to who, only speculation. Both parties want to use the virus politically but I say what s the point? If no significantly large place on earth that has done anything remotely close to eradicating the virus or having the lead politician prevent it. I find the politicizing of the virus bogas and repugnant regardless of who is doing it. It will be crickets when you ask a politician "what would you have done different". The virus is here and all we can do is manage it until we arrive at herd immunity or an highly effective vaccine shows up. Until then we are all along for the ride.
> 
> - controlfreak


Correct, however life must go on and waiting for a "cure/vaccine " that may never arrive.
If a mask works and you are in the could die section, were a mask and or stay home. Unless masks don't work then stay home.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

I have family that stay home and if vulnerable that is the best way to stay safe. No research needed to confirm that. My brother who is 69 needed his care worked on explained that he cannot get out of his car. They were understanding about that. He has eased up to the point of outdoor dining now. I agree, waiting for a cure may be a fool's errand. After all we haven't beat the common flu yet.


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## stevejack (Apr 5, 2020)

I have done endless research on this bug. NOW BEFORE I GO ON! PLEASE do your own….

"CORONA VIRUS" ALL CORONA VIRUSES are classified as a "COMMON COLD VIRUS". .

CORONA is classified as a CLASS 4 (+) Single Strand or (SS) RNA VIRUS and that is the (a) COMMON COLD VIRUS! SO is SARS!

WHICH also means there will never and can never be a vaccine for it.

Now there are tons of doctors that have restating that fact and guess what! They are never allowed on TV and some are even destroyed. Websites deleted, You tube censored, Twitter accounts closed YOU ARE BEING LIED TO












> I don t think for a minute that it matters who is in charge once the virus left China. Maybe one could create vaccines faster or come up with more PPE but we will never have an answer as to who, only speculation. Both parties want to use the virus politically but I say what s the point? If no significantly large place on earth that has done anything remotely close to eradicating the virus or having the lead politician prevent it. I find the politicizing of the virus bogas and repugnant regardless of who is doing it. It will be crickets when you ask a politician "what would you have done different". The virus is here and all we can do is manage it until we arrive at herd immunity or an highly effective vaccine shows up. Until then we are all along for the ride.
> 
> - controlfreak
> 
> ...


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Yeah its funny how that happens, go against a political narrative and get shut down because education, discussion and dialog are harmful if not suppressed.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

1) No one can give me a written guarantee the virus is natural, or man made. That said, if we can believe the unbelievable fake news, this virus is like no other. It:

a) causes kidney disease in Fred, permanent lung damage in Joe, permanent heart problems with Bertha, . . . .;

b) rarely touches children;

c) causes politicians to weaken the united, several states of America by way of shutting down businesses;

e) ONLY travels up to state borders, then changes characteristics;

d) only affects medical personnel, who need masks it that will stop its .1 micron virus butt;

f) doesn't affect [much] those operating police stations, fire stations, sewage and water systems, power plants, government construction project workers, medical personnel, Walmart, big boxes, . . . .;

g) does affect those not on the random, arbitrary list(s) above, including construction project workers in the private secort;

h) doesn't require healthy eating, vitamin supplementation, rest, stress reduction and so on to beat it, we just need to wait for a vaccine, stay twenty feet apart, wash our hands incessantly, . . . .

i) this virus, unlike those that came before, and about which the doctor tells you he/she can do nothing, will be, almost magically [and very profitably] be beaten by the for profit pharmaceutical saviors, and it will be done in a fraction of the time it took to make other vaccines (I guess throwing money is the solution);

j) most who are exposed to it don't even suffer from it. Many others, far more than the millions claimed and used to strike paralyzing fear into the hearts of everyone, show mild symptoms.

. . . .

2) Not a day goes by that I don't hear of thousands more being infected. At some point, two plus two must still be four. That is, only the ignorant and fools think government or anyone can stop it from spreading. Certainly, not without wreaking economic devastation and destroying most of what we know, and making us, EXTREMELY, vulnerable to our enemies.

If they tell of 10,000 new cases, the safe money is on, thousand upon thousands more didn't call up to report in.

At some point, nearly everyone has been exposed.

3) A vaccine that actually cured a common cold would be worth billions, if not trillions, yet the for profit folks have been unable to produce one. It's said that is because of mutations. Accordingly, any vaccine for this would have to depend on that this virus is, again, unique and will not mutate.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Not mentioned by all those CDC experts who went to mask college is, an N95 with a valve still diverts exhaled air AND reduces its velocity.

This is the same concept applied when doctors wear their far from air tight surgeon's masks - they work to deflect and, subsequently, to slow the speed at which our bubonic plague like breath leaves us.

Any of us sawdust making nuts who have delved into dust collection know the performance cost of adding twists, turns and bends to a system.

THERE YOU HAVE IT, we can be rich - instead of absurd filters, we can patent a breathing device with just pipes using ten or so nineties, and the speed of a sneeze will drop for hurricane speed to dust collector cyclone drop out speed…. 



> For what it s worth, the following is a direct quote from the CDC publication entitled, "Personal Protective Equipment: Questions and Answers" therealSteveN cited in his initial post:
> 
> "Respirators with exhalation valves protect the wearer from SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, but may not prevent the virus spreading from the wearer to others (that is, they may not be effective for source control). Until data are available to describe how effective respirators with exhalation valves are in preventing the spread of SARS-CoV-2 from the wearer to others:
> 
> ...


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

My question is why masks now? We are clearly past the curve. Statistically masks have not had any impact.

We already know masks do not work with influenza. The research has already been done by CDC dating all the way back to 1946.

Dr. Fauxi says "its the right thing to do" but in March he said they don't work. This is our leading infectious disease expert? Huh???

Sweden has made us look like a bunch of sky is falling clucking fools.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

One of my customers is a heart doctor. I was commenting that I hate masks due to eyeglass fogging. He says doctors have the same problem so they cheat by tearing out some of the bottom of the mask for better airflow.


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## TheSnekkerShow (Feb 1, 2020)

Not directed at anyone in particular, but a lot of people seem to have trouble understanding the difference between mitigation and prevention. You can put a guard on your table saw, but that doesn't mean you won't cut off your finger while being careless, complacent, or using the saw improperly, and it also doesn't mean you won't cut off your finger on the bandsaw ten minutes later despite having table-saw guard. You can put a mask on your face but that doesn't mean you won't get infected by being careless, complacent, or using the mask improperly, and it doesn't mean you won't get infected by touching the outside of a contaminated mask to adjust it and then rubbing your eyes. Right now a lot of people are wearing masks to go to bars and restaurants, and then removing their masks "temporarily" to eat or drink. It's like taking your eyes off the road "temporarily" to respond to a text message and then faulting your seatbelt for not preventing the collision. Even when a mask is worn properly, it's a mitigation step that is not 100% guaranteed to prevent infection. None of this means that mitigation steps aren't important and shouldn't be followed, nor does it mean that we shouldn't continually re-assess and improve our safety practices in the workshop or in the grocery store.


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## TheSnekkerShow (Feb 1, 2020)

> One of my customers is a heart doctor. I was commenting that I hate masks due to eyeglass fogging. He says doctors have the same problem so they cheat by tearing out some of the bottom of the mask for better airflow.


I haven't tried any of these products specifically, but I've used anti-fog wipes or sprays in the past with very good results. Even if you have a good mask and a good seal on the goggles, you can lose all visibility when going from an air-conditioned vehicle or room in to a hot outdoor environment.

https://www.glamour.com/story/anti-fog-glasses


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## TheSnekkerShow (Feb 1, 2020)

> Statistically masks have not had any impact.


I'm not sure what statistics you're referring to, or how literally you meant that statement, but I can't imagine how any kind of face covering, let alone a properly-worn and fitted mask, would not have any impact on the spread of an airborne or droplet-borne virus. Holding a large piece of pizza in front of my face while I walk forwards through a virus cloud would even deflect virus particles. The fact that things are bad now does not mean that they couldn't have been a lot worse.


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## 23tony (Dec 8, 2017)

> Duck, make sure your Alcohol is 70% (strength, not amount), and it will kill germs by itself.


Mine is only 45%, but I drink some every night and I haven't got sick yet, so it seems to be working!

When this mess started I was just getting started on some indoor remodeling involving drywall. I went out to pick up some plain ol' dust masks and they were gone. Haven't been able to find ANY since, and cloth or surgical masks are lousy for sanding dry mud (no seal around the edges). That last dust mask I've been using for the last couple months is looking a bit worn…


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

Some politician thinks we all should wear masks outdoors for the next 3 months.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

The choices and possibilities are endless. We are here debating that even if a mask does little to protect we should wear one anyway. And in the shop the king of table saw safety I would guess is a SawStop but we have seen that debate before. You are not going to get 100% compliance on anything. I am not saying don't wear one but I do fear that many feel "protected" because of the mask and therefore go out and interact more often.

And as I finished this Biden wants all to wear a mask at all times outside. If he thinks I will do that as I I am by myself or running, forget it. I won't. All of a sudden if not so funny seeing a person alone in a car wearing one.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

THE OBVIOUS:

Masks will not stop a bug. All the games so called experts disguised as politicians will not stop the bug. At best, those things will only alter the speed at which it works it's way through us.

If someone shows having been exposed and no signs of problems, a couple weeks later, they should be labeled CURED and free to wander unmolested.

If unsure, cut the crap. Come up with a test that checks the breath, AND distinguishes from the other cold viruses they were unable to cure and grab BILLIONS off of.


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## stevejack (Apr 5, 2020)

And you all destroyed your country and families future over a bug that's survival rate is 98%. Well done!


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