# In The Beginning



## Crushgroovin (May 24, 2010)

*40 hours until it begins*

It was all started 8 weeks ago as a way of spending more time with my sons & a desire to build a common hobby before they reach the age of rebellion. So we 3 set off on this foray into woodworking with a 20 year old duct taped circular saw, a 20+ year old jigsaw, a new (under powered) table router, & about 100 projects & about a million ideas of what we would like to do first.

The first project of course was a work table/bench. That was followed by two cutting boards. These three projects were followed by the knowledge that we were under tooled for the level of projects we would like to do. So one day while looking for a table saw on Craigslist I cam across something called a Shopsmith. I was intrigued and after some very in depth research I made a purchase of a used Shopsmith Mark V. Although the machine is almost 30 years old it looks showroom new. So now we are all giddy with anticipation as we are picking up the machine this Friday afternoon.

I can't wait to get started! I look forward to sharing my projects and lack of skill & education with all of you. I am sure the fine folks on this board will have much to share.

-Chris


----------



## Eagle1 (Jan 4, 2010)

Crushgroovin said:


> *40 hours until it begins*
> 
> It was all started 8 weeks ago as a way of spending more time with my sons & a desire to build a common hobby before they reach the age of rebellion. So we 3 set off on this foray into woodworking with a 20 year old duct taped circular saw, a 20+ year old jigsaw, a new (under powered) table router, & about 100 projects & about a million ideas of what we would like to do first.
> 
> ...


Welcome to lumberjocks: Cudos to getting your kids involved. I think that is part of the problem these days with some kids. They don't have something constructive to do, so they find things to do that are not constructive.


----------



## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

Crushgroovin said:


> *40 hours until it begins*
> 
> It was all started 8 weeks ago as a way of spending more time with my sons & a desire to build a common hobby before they reach the age of rebellion. So we 3 set off on this foray into woodworking with a 20 year old duct taped circular saw, a 20+ year old jigsaw, a new (under powered) table router, & about 100 projects & about a million ideas of what we would like to do first.
> 
> ...


Welcome to LJs! I have made use of my Shopsmith for 28 years. Looking forward to hearing more of your adventures with your sons.


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Crushgroovin said:


> *40 hours until it begins*
> 
> It was all started 8 weeks ago as a way of spending more time with my sons & a desire to build a common hobby before they reach the age of rebellion. So we 3 set off on this foray into woodworking with a 20 year old duct taped circular saw, a 20+ year old jigsaw, a new (under powered) table router, & about 100 projects & about a million ideas of what we would like to do first.
> 
> ...


I'm so glad you have time with your sons and shop time is good time. Enjoy your new toy.


----------



## dakremer (Dec 8, 2009)

Crushgroovin said:


> *40 hours until it begins*
> 
> It was all started 8 weeks ago as a way of spending more time with my sons & a desire to build a common hobby before they reach the age of rebellion. So we 3 set off on this foray into woodworking with a 20 year old duct taped circular saw, a 20+ year old jigsaw, a new (under powered) table router, & about 100 projects & about a million ideas of what we would like to do first.
> 
> ...


very awesome Crushgroovin….can I call you Crushgroovin?  j/k…wow..anyways…i'm a fairly new woodworker myself, and learning quickly! it is awesome you are getting your kids involved - I can see myself doing this for my entire life!! Hopefully by the time I have kids, I'll have gained enough insight to teach them a thing or two!! welcome to LJs!!


----------



## Berg (Aug 31, 2009)

Crushgroovin said:


> *40 hours until it begins*
> 
> It was all started 8 weeks ago as a way of spending more time with my sons & a desire to build a common hobby before they reach the age of rebellion. So we 3 set off on this foray into woodworking with a 20 year old duct taped circular saw, a 20+ year old jigsaw, a new (under powered) table router, & about 100 projects & about a million ideas of what we would like to do first.
> 
> ...


Welcome Chris. As stated above, it is great you want to do this with your kids. This is a great place to bounce ideas around, ask questions, display your successes and your not-so-successes. You will find, as I have, that there is a lot that can be learned from the folks here and if you discover a little trick, teach us. 
Again welcome and thanks for this blog. Very enjoyable.
P.S. Love the safety glasses.


----------



## Crushgroovin (May 24, 2010)

*Twenty Twent Twenty Four Hours to GOOOOO*

I wanna be sedated!

LOL

as my wife says "ahh boys & their toys, doesn't matter if they are 7 or 37"


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Twenty Twent Twenty Four Hours to GOOOOO*
> 
> I wanna be sedated!
> 
> ...


all righty then


----------



## Crushgroovin (May 24, 2010)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Twenty Twent Twenty Four Hours to GOOOOO*
> 
> I wanna be sedated!
> 
> ...


Just a line from a Ramone's song for those who are not familiar with the song my post title came from.


----------



## Crushgroovin (May 24, 2010)

*And We're Off*

Never one to let the moss grow beneath my feet and un-dauntingly ambitious I started my next project tonight.

I owe my wife big time for being 1) Amazing! 2) being very encouraging throughout the venture into woodworking. 3) oh and putting up with me for the 8 years I spent in an alcoholic stupor. 
She is going to culinary school right now to become a pastry chef.

Our first project was a decorative cutting board we gave her for Mother's Day. 









The next day she mentioned she would like a really big wood cutting board like the ones she has at school. Hey I can take a hint! But I thought we should make one more cutting board. So we made a bigger Maple cutting board for my mom as a belated mother's day gift. It came out amazinglyer than I ever could have imagined. Too bad i didn't get a picture of it before we gave it to her.

Now I feel like we are ready to take a stab at the BIG BOARD. A 16"x24" end grain tumbling box cutting board. Today I purchased 5 bd ft of Purple Heart & 4 bd ft of Maple to go with the 4 bd ft of Cherry I had on hand.

So now it is in process.

First step has been to create thick enough stock to make 1.25"x1.25" blocks.











__
https://flic.kr/p/4668656050


__
https://flic.kr/p/4668032293


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Crushgroovin said:


> *And We're Off*
> 
> Never one to let the moss grow beneath my feet and un-dauntingly ambitious I started my next project tonight.
> 
> ...


It's great to get a good start and spend your time doing productive projects


----------



## Crushgroovin (May 24, 2010)

*How many projects*

I am 4 days into life with a Shopsmith & i already have 3 projects going. If I were in school they would say I have ADD! But hey I have to have something to do while glue & fnish are drying, right? LOL Now the key will be finish the Bandsaw Box, End Grain Cutting Board, & workbench.


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Crushgroovin said:


> *How many projects*
> 
> I am 4 days into life with a Shopsmith & i already have 3 projects going. If I were in school they would say I have ADD! But hey I have to have something to do while glue & fnish are drying, right? LOL Now the key will be finish the Bandsaw Box, End Grain Cutting Board, & workbench.


Keep on going have fun.


----------



## Crushgroovin (May 24, 2010)

*My Shop Helpers!*

I started this not so little venture into woodworking last spring leading up to my boys Pine Wood Derby Races. We rocked the races brining home two first place den trophies and 2nd place overall.

Since then I have spent dozens of hours in my workshop with my boys. It has been everything I had hoped for and more. One nice part is how excited they get about cleaning  LOL they argue over who gets to vacuum and always have the hand broom at the ready. I am taking advantage of every minute of it right now. I know in 3-5 years(or whenever they discover girls) they won't be so eager to clean or spend time with dad. Until them I am cherishing these wonderful days!!!


----------



## rtriplett (Nov 25, 2009)

Crushgroovin said:


> *My Shop Helpers!*
> 
> I started this not so little venture into woodworking last spring leading up to my boys Pine Wood Derby Races. We rocked the races brining home two first place den trophies and 2nd place overall.
> 
> Since then I have spent dozens of hours in my workshop with my boys. It has been everything I had hoped for and more. One nice part is how excited they get about cleaning  LOL they argue over who gets to vacuum and always have the hand broom at the ready. I am taking advantage of every minute of it right now. I know in 3-5 years(or whenever they discover girls) they won't be so eager to clean or spend time with dad. Until them I am cherishing these wonderful days!!!


When I see pictures of kids in the shop I remember the fun I used to have with my boys. They were cute in their safety goggles. they learned some good practices. My older son did some furniture redesign in college with a recliner. I went to see it and it was interesting. He redid a sofa too. Not much money, but a lot of ideas. Now he has an MBA in business and I don't think he does much woodworking. I will have to see next month when I go to visit. The other son is back with us for a while and does some work in my shop. He is more artistic and it's hard to put some ideas into shape with wood-without a lot of experience and knowledge. Enjoy the time with them. They might remember and get into it later.
Robert


----------



## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

Crushgroovin said:


> *My Shop Helpers!*
> 
> I started this not so little venture into woodworking last spring leading up to my boys Pine Wood Derby Races. We rocked the races brining home two first place den trophies and 2nd place overall.
> 
> Since then I have spent dozens of hours in my workshop with my boys. It has been everything I had hoped for and more. One nice part is how excited they get about cleaning  LOL they argue over who gets to vacuum and always have the hand broom at the ready. I am taking advantage of every minute of it right now. I know in 3-5 years(or whenever they discover girls) they won't be so eager to clean or spend time with dad. Until them I am cherishing these wonderful days!!!


Two great sons!!

When they're finished there, I could use some experienced cleaner uppers ;^)


----------



## sedcokid (Jul 19, 2008)

Crushgroovin said:


> *My Shop Helpers!*
> 
> I started this not so little venture into woodworking last spring leading up to my boys Pine Wood Derby Races. We rocked the races brining home two first place den trophies and 2nd place overall.
> 
> Since then I have spent dozens of hours in my workshop with my boys. It has been everything I had hoped for and more. One nice part is how excited they get about cleaning  LOL they argue over who gets to vacuum and always have the hand broom at the ready. I am taking advantage of every minute of it right now. I know in 3-5 years(or whenever they discover girls) they won't be so eager to clean or spend time with dad. Until them I am cherishing these wonderful days!!!


I too have fun in the shop but not with my children but my grandchildren. When my kids were little I was too busy working and providing for the family to have a hobby as grand as woodworking. The grandchild that spends the most time with me is a 7 year old grandaughter she likes to clean up running the shop dust collector and shop vac. Yesterday while she was here she cleaned my desk, making comments about my housekeeping being lax 

I appreciate your comments!

Thanks for sharing


----------



## Rustic (Jul 21, 2008)

Crushgroovin said:


> *My Shop Helpers!*
> 
> I started this not so little venture into woodworking last spring leading up to my boys Pine Wood Derby Races. We rocked the races brining home two first place den trophies and 2nd place overall.
> 
> Since then I have spent dozens of hours in my workshop with my boys. It has been everything I had hoped for and more. One nice part is how excited they get about cleaning  LOL they argue over who gets to vacuum and always have the hand broom at the ready. I am taking advantage of every minute of it right now. I know in 3-5 years(or whenever they discover girls) they won't be so eager to clean or spend time with dad. Until them I am cherishing these wonderful days!!!


makes me wish i would had kids.


----------



## schloemoe (May 10, 2010)

Crushgroovin said:


> *My Shop Helpers!*
> 
> I started this not so little venture into woodworking last spring leading up to my boys Pine Wood Derby Races. We rocked the races brining home two first place den trophies and 2nd place overall.
> 
> Since then I have spent dozens of hours in my workshop with my boys. It has been everything I had hoped for and more. One nice part is how excited they get about cleaning  LOL they argue over who gets to vacuum and always have the hand broom at the ready. I am taking advantage of every minute of it right now. I know in 3-5 years(or whenever they discover girls) they won't be so eager to clean or spend time with dad. Until them I am cherishing these wonderful days!!!


My only daughter is 27 now and she can tell you all of the names of jointery and all about thickness planing and miter cuts but don't ask her to get saw dust on her that would just be wrong…..................Schloemoe


----------



## Crushgroovin (May 24, 2010)

*Enough to Make a Grown Me Cry!!!*

I have been turning for a few months now and have had some moderate success with spindles and a couple platters, even a bowl or two has worked out ok. But in attempting to learn how to turn bowls I have had many a "Learning Opportunity" which has resulted in me screaming non nonsensical almost curse words from my shop. Now the outside of the bowl isn't a problem, I have made some absolutely beautiful Bowl Outsides. The trouble has come with my Fracking Lathe and the hollowing process. You see as I am making smoothing scrapes my tools rest moves ever so slightly until BANG and there is a big dent in the bowl. Even when I am making my final light cuts the damn tool rest will move and I end up uneven! Eventually the result is the bottom of the bowl is too thin and I end up with a bowl flying off the lathe looking like this










Now that isn't so bad if you look at it from this angle










The problem is most people don't really need bowls like this










Now if I can just figure out how to make the whole bowl without the HOLE!!!!










There is a great deal on a Jet 1642EVS on CL right now but I can't get the poster to get back to me. I am hoping that if I get a real Lathe with a better motor and tool rest that instead of focusing on making the dang thing work I can focus on doing the work.

Look later for my review of the Harbor Freight Lathe and how it isn't worth it, even when it's free!

Yes I am sure that much of this has to do with my lack of turning skills but I don't need to hear your f'ing opinion on that! I am well aware of my own shortcomings thank you very much!


----------



## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Enough to Make a Grown Me Cry!!!*
> 
> I have been turning for a few months now and have had some moderate success with spindles and a couple platters, even a bowl or two has worked out ok. But in attempting to learn how to turn bowls I have had many a "Learning Opportunity" which has resulted in me screaming non nonsensical almost curse words from my shop. Now the outside of the bowl isn't a problem, I have made some absolutely beautiful Bowl Outsides. The trouble has come with my Fracking Lathe and the hollowing process. You see as I am making smoothing scrapes my tools rest moves ever so slightly until BANG and there is a big dent in the bowl. Even when I am making my final light cuts the damn tool rest will move and I end up uneven! Eventually the result is the bottom of the bowl is too thin and I end up with a bowl flying off the lathe looking like this
> 
> ...


Great looking funnels!!

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Not sure if there is a way to fix the tool rest problem- I'm not familiar with the Harbor Freight design.

Lew

Did you see this-http://lumberjocks.com/topics/23849


----------



## Eric_S (Aug 26, 2009)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Enough to Make a Grown Me Cry!!!*
> 
> I have been turning for a few months now and have had some moderate success with spindles and a couple platters, even a bowl or two has worked out ok. But in attempting to learn how to turn bowls I have had many a "Learning Opportunity" which has resulted in me screaming non nonsensical almost curse words from my shop. Now the outside of the bowl isn't a problem, I have made some absolutely beautiful Bowl Outsides. The trouble has come with my Fracking Lathe and the hollowing process. You see as I am making smoothing scrapes my tools rest moves ever so slightly until BANG and there is a big dent in the bowl. Even when I am making my final light cuts the damn tool rest will move and I end up uneven! Eventually the result is the bottom of the bowl is too thin and I end up with a bowl flying off the lathe looking like this
> 
> ...


Which HF lathe do you have? I haven't had any problems with my 33 3/8" bed HF Central Machinery lathe. The only issue I had was I didn't like the tool rest it came with and it had an odd sized diameter that I couldn't find rests for. I think its somewhere around 7/8. So I bought a 1" Sorby rounded tool rest and sanded it for an hour on my Worksharp 3000 until it fit.

I haven't had the adjustment knobs loosen on me though. How long have you had it? I've only been using it for a couple months so maybe thats why, but I've tightened and untighted each knob already many many times.


----------



## davidmicraig (Nov 21, 2009)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Enough to Make a Grown Me Cry!!!*
> 
> I have been turning for a few months now and have had some moderate success with spindles and a couple platters, even a bowl or two has worked out ok. But in attempting to learn how to turn bowls I have had many a "Learning Opportunity" which has resulted in me screaming non nonsensical almost curse words from my shop. Now the outside of the bowl isn't a problem, I have made some absolutely beautiful Bowl Outsides. The trouble has come with my Fracking Lathe and the hollowing process. You see as I am making smoothing scrapes my tools rest moves ever so slightly until BANG and there is a big dent in the bowl. Even when I am making my final light cuts the damn tool rest will move and I end up uneven! Eventually the result is the bottom of the bowl is too thin and I end up with a bowl flying off the lathe looking like this
> 
> ...


As an experienced HF lathe user I can feel your pain but I think I also know what the problem is that you are experiencing. I believe, from your description, that you have the same HF lathe I used. This HF lathe is light, this causes a great deal of vibration that is loosening up your tool rest and throwing the piece off balance. I have a blog about it here. Plywood on the inside of the stand and cinder blocks helped control it enough for me to start getting hollows out that I was satisfied with. I would never discourage anyone from upgrading from the cheaper HF lathe, but I still believe one can learn quite a bit on it with just a few modifications to it.

Hope this helps,

David


----------



## Eric_S (Aug 26, 2009)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Enough to Make a Grown Me Cry!!!*
> 
> I have been turning for a few months now and have had some moderate success with spindles and a couple platters, even a bowl or two has worked out ok. But in attempting to learn how to turn bowls I have had many a "Learning Opportunity" which has resulted in me screaming non nonsensical almost curse words from my shop. Now the outside of the bowl isn't a problem, I have made some absolutely beautiful Bowl Outsides. The trouble has come with my Fracking Lathe and the hollowing process. You see as I am making smoothing scrapes my tools rest moves ever so slightly until BANG and there is a big dent in the bowl. Even when I am making my final light cuts the damn tool rest will move and I end up uneven! Eventually the result is the bottom of the bowl is too thin and I end up with a bowl flying off the lathe looking like this
> 
> ...


Ok from David's description it sounds like you have a different HF lathe. Mine is cast iron.


----------



## rtriplett (Nov 25, 2009)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Enough to Make a Grown Me Cry!!!*
> 
> I have been turning for a few months now and have had some moderate success with spindles and a couple platters, even a bowl or two has worked out ok. But in attempting to learn how to turn bowls I have had many a "Learning Opportunity" which has resulted in me screaming non nonsensical almost curse words from my shop. Now the outside of the bowl isn't a problem, I have made some absolutely beautiful Bowl Outsides. The trouble has come with my Fracking Lathe and the hollowing process. You see as I am making smoothing scrapes my tools rest moves ever so slightly until BANG and there is a big dent in the bowl. Even when I am making my final light cuts the damn tool rest will move and I end up uneven! Eventually the result is the bottom of the bowl is too thin and I end up with a bowl flying off the lathe looking like this
> 
> ...


I have the cheapest ( I think?) HF lathe.-$79.00 on sale about 10 years ago. It is a 14" by 42" and I spent more on the stand for materials than on the lathe. It has little vibration now and is pretty stable. I have broken a few tool rests and learned to order 2 at a time from China! I have replaced the knob for tightening the tool rest with a pair of vice grips. works great. One day a good Jet or better. The HF can be made better. Maybe look at the surface of the bolt where it meets the tool rest for tightening. Good Luck


----------



## Kindlingmaker (Sep 29, 2008)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Enough to Make a Grown Me Cry!!!*
> 
> I have been turning for a few months now and have had some moderate success with spindles and a couple platters, even a bowl or two has worked out ok. But in attempting to learn how to turn bowls I have had many a "Learning Opportunity" which has resulted in me screaming non nonsensical almost curse words from my shop. Now the outside of the bowl isn't a problem, I have made some absolutely beautiful Bowl Outsides. The trouble has come with my Fracking Lathe and the hollowing process. You see as I am making smoothing scrapes my tools rest moves ever so slightly until BANG and there is a big dent in the bowl. Even when I am making my final light cuts the damn tool rest will move and I end up uneven! Eventually the result is the bottom of the bowl is too thin and I end up with a bowl flying off the lathe looking like this
> 
> ...


Turn a gobblet with a rim or a box bottom and glue you bowls to them and you will have a rised bowl.


----------



## SST (Nov 30, 2006)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Enough to Make a Grown Me Cry!!!*
> 
> I have been turning for a few months now and have had some moderate success with spindles and a couple platters, even a bowl or two has worked out ok. But in attempting to learn how to turn bowls I have had many a "Learning Opportunity" which has resulted in me screaming non nonsensical almost curse words from my shop. Now the outside of the bowl isn't a problem, I have made some absolutely beautiful Bowl Outsides. The trouble has come with my Fracking Lathe and the hollowing process. You see as I am making smoothing scrapes my tools rest moves ever so slightly until BANG and there is a big dent in the bowl. Even when I am making my final light cuts the damn tool rest will move and I end up uneven! Eventually the result is the bottom of the bowl is too thin and I end up with a bowl flying off the lathe looking like this
> 
> ...


Instead of addressing the lathe, I'm going to go in a different direction. I don't have a HF lathe to speak about anyway. 
While I do a lot of woodworking, I don't do a lot of turning, but wanted to get better. I looked in my area & found a turning club. It's been a great learning experience. The guys in there have been helpful to the extent of inviting me over to their shop & literally teaching me to turn a bowl. I learned some subtle chisel techniques that made the difference between a good result & a failure. I definitely don't know it all (or much), but I'm getting better.

I don't know if you have any groups in your area, but I think there are a lot of turning clubs around in general. My suggestion is to look around for one & get involved. It's a great way to meet guys (& gals) who have a common interest. -SST


----------



## Crushgroovin (May 24, 2010)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Enough to Make a Grown Me Cry!!!*
> 
> I have been turning for a few months now and have had some moderate success with spindles and a couple platters, even a bowl or two has worked out ok. But in attempting to learn how to turn bowls I have had many a "Learning Opportunity" which has resulted in me screaming non nonsensical almost curse words from my shop. Now the outside of the bowl isn't a problem, I have made some absolutely beautiful Bowl Outsides. The trouble has come with my Fracking Lathe and the hollowing process. You see as I am making smoothing scrapes my tools rest moves ever so slightly until BANG and there is a big dent in the bowl. Even when I am making my final light cuts the damn tool rest will move and I end up uneven! Eventually the result is the bottom of the bowl is too thin and I end up with a bowl flying off the lathe looking like this
> 
> ...


I have the Central Machinery 34706 from Harbor Freight. I new before I got it that it had some issues. But I decided to sell my Shopsmith & had a Harbor Freight gift card for $270. So it not costing me anything out of pocket I thought I would give it a shot. I made some upgrades right out of the gate knowing that they were an issue. I replaced the Locking handles on the tool rest with some nice ones from Grainger. I then replaced the belt with a high quality Napa belt. Finally I used Locktite to try and get the but below the tool rest to keep from vibrating loose. So far the Locktite has kept it from loosening but hasn't kept the tool rest from slipping.

Thanks for the link Craig I will check it out!

I am going to add bases to both and make them Bowls on Pedestals! Should end up pretty well.

I have been wanting to join a local turners group but I can never make their meetings. I am usually busy at night with my kids so it is hard to get to them. I will make it eventually. I have taken one class and am taking a couple more next month. I am sure that will help quite a bit!


----------



## Crushgroovin (May 24, 2010)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Enough to Make a Grown Me Cry!!!*
> 
> I have been turning for a few months now and have had some moderate success with spindles and a couple platters, even a bowl or two has worked out ok. But in attempting to learn how to turn bowls I have had many a "Learning Opportunity" which has resulted in me screaming non nonsensical almost curse words from my shop. Now the outside of the bowl isn't a problem, I have made some absolutely beautiful Bowl Outsides. The trouble has come with my Fracking Lathe and the hollowing process. You see as I am making smoothing scrapes my tools rest moves ever so slightly until BANG and there is a big dent in the bowl. Even when I am making my final light cuts the damn tool rest will move and I end up uneven! Eventually the result is the bottom of the bowl is too thin and I end up with a bowl flying off the lathe looking like this
> 
> ...


Oh and I have no problem with it being sturdy enough. I skipped the legs and mounted it on a piece of 1" Melamine then clamped it on top of my rock solid Universal Tool Stand. It aints going nowheres!

I am thinking of a couple tricks to make the tools rest stay put. The Red Locktite seems to be working so it is just a matter of the surface being to slick. I am thinking some sandpaper on the bottom of the tool rest base might help keep it from sliding down the bed.

I am open to other suggestions though!


----------



## Crushgroovin (May 24, 2010)

*Food Safe Finishes*

The Below is informational only. It in no way any reflection on anyones political beliefs. It is for those that would like to do their own research into the subject. This is NOT a political forum so please refrain from posting your political beliefs regarding the FDA or any portion of any Government Entity. We each have our own religious and political beliefs and this topic is not the place for them to be expressed. I fully respect everyones right to have their own thoughts, beliefs and ideas. However, they are not welcome here. Please feel free to start your own thread and discuss your political or religious thoughts and beliefs to your hearts content.

*Anyone who posts any responses that could be construde as a politically based opinion will be blocked. There are quite literally thousands of websites devoted to politics, government, etc. This is however, a forum on Woodworking, please keep your replies on the topic of woodworking.*

I recently I came across a great little pamphlet of finishing "Bob Flexner's Finishing Facts". I must say as a very novice finisher it did quite a bit to educate and clarify. Best of all it removed quite a bit of myth's and replaced them with facts.

For me the most informative is the section on Food Safe Finishes. In that Section he cites Title 21, Part 175 of the Code of Federal Regulations, so you can check it out for yourself!!!!

In the article Mr Flexner states the following

"In fact, all ingredients used in common finishes, including metallic driers, are approved by the Federal Drug Administration (FDA) for food contact as long as the finish is made so it cures properly. Lead and Mercury are, of course, not on this list. But, neither Lead nor Mercury is used in common finishes anymore"

He then goes on to say the following:

"In spite of the fact that no health problems have ever been reported, woodworkers and ,especially woodturners, continue to worry themselves about the food safety of finishes. This has resulted in many wooden objects receiving inferior, non curing mineral or vegetable oil finishes."

Please make up your own minds about what you feel is safe. Believe me I really don't care what you decide is best for your own personal use.

Again, this IS NOT a forum for your own personal Political Views!!!! If you have a problem with the FDA or if You Love the FDA please feel free to write your own blog and tackle that topic. But as far as this thread goes leave the politics out. I am only sharing information from a a source I found and am in no way advocating for or against the FDA or any other Government Entity. *If you respect this I will respect You!*


----------



## gpastor (Jan 10, 2010)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Food Safe Finishes*
> 
> The Below is informational only. It in no way any reflection on anyones political beliefs. It is for those that would like to do their own research into the subject. This is NOT a political forum so please refrain from posting your political beliefs regarding the FDA or any portion of any Government Entity. We each have our own religious and political beliefs and this topic is not the place for them to be expressed. I fully respect everyones right to have their own thoughts, beliefs and ideas. However, they are not welcome here. Please feel free to start your own thread and discuss your political or religious thoughts and beliefs to your hearts content.
> 
> ...


I found this discussions on chowhound.com helpful -

What's safe to use to finish butcher block? 
Just got a new kitchen cart w/ a butcher-block top and the wood is unfinished. I'd like to stain it in some way but I don't want to use something that will end up seeping dangerously into the food I prepare on there. Can I use linseed oil? Should I just leave the wood raw?

Permalink | Reply 
By GDSwamp on Nov 25, 2007 04:54AM

31 Replies so Far 
You might want to look at Tried and True. They make pure Danish oil, no metals or solvents/dryers added. It is food safe I've only used their Varnish and Beeswax oil for mouldings but I can attest to the beauty of the outcome. You can also call them and talk to the main guy about what you want to do and he will give you great advice. Either that or use a food safe mineral oil.

http://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/

Permalink | Reply 
By bigmackdaddy on Nov 25, 2007 05:12AM

NO, no, no!...do not use linseed oil - it's not food safe. Pour on a good amount of mineral oil, let it soak into the wood for thirty minutes, then wipe off the excess. Use a soft rag or paper tower for this. As you wipe off the excess oil rub vigorusly to push the oil into the wood. Mineral oil is food safe, will not go rancid, but will need to be reapplied every month or so, depending on how frequently you use your block for chopping. Do not put any other finish on the butcher block, and do not leave it raw.

Permalink | Reply 
By janniecooks on Nov 25, 2007 05:14AM

Behandla makes a good product for butcher block food prep surfaces. A bit more trouble than mineral oil, but makes for easier cleaning of the surface in my experience.

Permalink | Reply 
By ThreeGigs on Nov 25, 2007 03:02PM

Don't use linseed oil. I'm curious as to why you want to stain it?

Mineral oil is a good treatment for keeping the wood in good shape (and you won't poison your family with it). Apply the mineral oil once a month, and wipe off the excess.

Permalink | Reply 
By greglor on Nov 25, 2007 03:47PM

re: greglor Third the mineral oil. I have one maple butcher block board from the early 60s that is still going strong thanks to regular mineral oil treatments (I'm not religious about "once a month" but you can tell when it's getting dry).

Permalink | Reply 
By Sherri on Nov 25, 2007 04:23PM

There have been a few threads about this over the past year or so that I've been
reading this site, and a while ago I got curious again and tried to track down a 
definitive answer. As far as I can tell, there isn't a definitive answer.

The FDA publishes guidelines on what it considers safe for food contact surfaces.
It's a huge document: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2003/aprqtr/pdf/21cfr175.300.pdf
From what I can tell, every consumer-grade clear finish available at your
local hardware store meets these standards once the finish has dried.

For any product you're considering using, the manufacturer must publish
a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS). This is a document which contains
everything known about the toxicity of the product. You can usually find them
with a web search for the product name and "msds". For example, here's the
one for a common Minwax polyurethane finish: http://www.rockler.com:80/tech/RTD20000211AA.pdf
which looks like after those scary organic solvents dry, it's perfectly safe.

However, while "perfectly safe" means you're probably not going to die or grow
a third ear, it doesn't mean you're going to be comfortable having that stuff around
your chow. Personally, I'm not; and fortunately there are some good alternatives.

The purpose of a wood finish is to fill the pores of the wood with something so
that all the liquids, juices, bloods, etc you're going to have all over the cutting
board stay on the surface and can be wiped off, rather than soaking in and 
permanently staining the wood. And what you want is something that when it
dries, cures solidly so that it can't be wiped or washed out. Some oils do not 
cure. Some oils cure naturally, if slowly, and various chemicals can be added 
to speed up the process (manganese dioxide, cobalt dichloride, various other 
scary things).

The two most common natural, unadulterated oils used as food surface finishes
are mineral oil and walnut oil. The problem is, neither one of these cures to a
solid, durable finish. Walnut oil partially cures, but mineral oil remains essentially
unchanged. This means that heavy use of soap or hot water will wash the finish
off the wood. Which isn't really a problem as long as you're expecting it and
don't mind slathering on some more oil every once in a while. You can find
walnut oil in the oil section of any well-stocked grocery store, and mineral oil
is sold in drugstores in the laxative department (!).

One option you don't want to use is other non-curing vegetable oils. Corn oil,
olive oil, etc. These oils over time tend to get rancid and smell funny, in addition
to not providing much protection.

There are a number of commercial finishing oils marketed specifically for use in
kitchens. In addition to the Tried and True mentioned above, the German company
Livos (http://livos.us/) makes a couple of wood oils they claim are safe and
I've used and been happy with. Other commonly seen products are Jasco butcher block 
oil which I think is just pure mineral oil, and Behlen Salad Bowl Finish which, according 
to the msds, contains a cobalt drier.

So when you add it all up, walnut and mineral oil seem to win in both the inexpensive
and safe categories, and do ok in the protection department. At home my heavily-used
cutting boards get a good scrubbing and a good wipedown with one or the other once a 
month or so.

Permalink | Reply 
By Chuckles the Clone on Nov 25, 2007 08:30PM

re: Chuckles the Clone There is NO WAY that a "common Minwax polyurethane finish" or any similar finish can be "perfectly safe." They are "food safe" if you lay food ON them, but not if you're chopping and hacking on them with knives and sharp utensils. The finish will chip and pieces of it will end up in your food.
Only food-grade oils that don't turn rancid should be used. There are a few that include a small quantity of beeswax that do give a nice finish if the block doesn't get hard wear, but for blocks that are used constantly, it's best to stick with mineral oil. Some manufacturers add jazzy things to them that aren't necessary except to get you to pay more.

Permalink | Reply 
By MakingSense on Nov 25, 2007 10:18PM

re: MakingSense >> There is NO WAY that a "common Minwax polyurethane finish" or any similar 
>> finish can be "perfectly safe." [...] The finish will chip and pieces of it will end 
>> up in your food.

Like I said, you might not feel comfortable with this stuff around your chow. However, there does not appear to be any evidence at all either that the finish will chip or that if it does that the fully-cured, microscopic particles will be in any way harmful. Nor is there any reason to think that these particles are any more dangerous than the same microparticles that would be detached from a conventional plastic cutting board.

Polyurethane is covered under title 21, part 177: http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/FCF177.html

I wouldn't encourage people to use this stuff, and I get the same big
capitalized NO WAY feeling when I think of using it myself. But if you've 
already gone and done it, all evidence suggests that you're fine. These 
finishes are sold for, and expected to be used on, childrens' toys, an area in
which eating and chewing receives considerable attention.

Here's the guy who wrote the Rodale Press book about finishes making a similar argument:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/fea...

Permalink | Reply 
By Chuckles the Clone on Nov 26, 2007 12:38AM

re: Chuckles the Clone >>The purpose of a wood finish is to fill the pores of the wood with something so
that all the liquids, juices, bloods, etc you're going to have all over the cutting
board stay on the surface and can be wiped off, rather than soaking in and 
permanently staining the wood. And what you want is something that when it
dries, cures solidly so that it can't be wiped or washed out.<<

That's exactly what the Behandla does I mentioned earlier. I'm not 100% sure of the exact composition, but it seems to me to be like a wax suspended in a water based carrier. Slather it on, let it soak in and dry, rub a bit and presto, my oak countertops don't get stained. You can buy Behandla at Ikea stores.

I've also heard good things about beeswax, however I remember when researching a good protectant for my countertops that beeswax was 'hard work', in that it had to be rubbed in (enough heat from friction to soften it, along with enough pressure to push it into the wood).

Permalink | Reply 
By ThreeGigs on Nov 26, 2007 03:07AM

re: ThreeGigs All I can report is my personal experience with beeswax. I've got a neighbor who's a fine cabinetmaker who gave me samples of lots of products to experiment with. The beeswax doesn't sink into the wood no matter how hard you work but it does give a beautiful finish on the outside of things like salad bowls. It wasn't worth it for hard-use surfaces like cutting boards because it didn't give any protection that would build up. If you put too much it just scraped off.
Plain mineral oil worked the best for plain utility cutting sufaces. The wood will absorb as much as it can and you just keep oiling until the wood itself says "enough." 
For a heavily used surface that I really cared about looking terrific, I used a mineral oil that included a small amount of beeswax that does have to be buffed. It was more trouble than straight mineral oil but worth the effort because it looked great. It took much longer to build up a resistant surface but when I finally got it, the counter looked great and takes pretty heavy wear. We can eat crabs, chop food, leave wet thing, etc., right on it with no problems. A good cleaning with vinegar and water cleans it right up and a buffing brings the surface right back. Water doesn't soak into this surface as long as it's kept oiled. A lot more work.

Permalink | Reply 
By MakingSense on Nov 26, 2007 11:08AM

re: MakingSense >>I used a mineral oil that included a small amount of beeswax that does have to be buffed.<<

Makes me glad I researched finishes before picking one. Your comments on beeswax seem to follow on what I read, namely that to get it to penetrate even a little, you need to rub enough to heat up the wax and the wood so it softens, with enough pressure to impregnate it. An electric buffer might do the trick, but wasn't something I wanted to do on a regular basis.

Do you have a brand name for the oil/wax combo you use? I like the stuff I can get at Ikea, but if I can pick up something similar from a much closer hardware store I'd go with the convenience factor.

Permalink | Reply 
By ThreeGigs on Nov 28, 2007 09:13AM

re: Chuckles the Clone Thanks for all the great info, Chuckles the Clone!

Permalink | Reply 
By JenniferCote on Dec 29, 2010 09:38PM

Food-grade mineral oil (says the girl who built her own wooden boat, builds furniture, and received a drill press for Xmas several years ago). If your hardware store doesn't have it, or if it isn't labelled as food-safe, go to the pharmacy & ask (mineral oil is used as a laxative, so you can often find it at the drug store). You want to protect the wood from liquids, but you don't want a polyurethane or wax or linseed/danish oil/turpentine, as none of those are food-safe. The point of a wooden board is the texture of the wood; it keeps food from sliding around while you're chopping. As for cleaning, hot soapy water or an anti-bac food spray will do the trick. Personally, I wouldn't use a built-in block for meat, as I like to really soap up a board used for poultry, etc, but if you're a meticulous cleaner, it should be fine.

The mineral oil will darken the finish a little. DO NOT STAIN your butcher block, as stains aren't food-safe. The wood will continue to oxidize/darken over time.

Permalink | Reply 
By Hungry Celeste on Nov 26, 2007 07:43AM

Despite what you've read elsewhere, almost every wood finish should be considered food-safe.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/fea...

Please refer to Chuckles the Clone's post above.

Bob Flexner, guy who wrote the book about finishes: 
"Food safeness is a non-issue because there's no evidence of any problem. So far as we know, all finishes are safe to eat off of, and safe for children to chew on, once the finish has fully cured."

Permalink | Reply 
By State St. on Nov 26, 2007 11:19AM

re: State St. I'll clarify what I meant regarding food-safe: I wouldn't use a polyurethane finish on an actively used butcher block (one you actually CHOP on, not just for display) because even the hardest oil-based urethane finishes will scratch over time under a knife blade, eventually flaking into the food and looking all ratty. (Think of the damage someone in stiletto heels can do to a varnished/urethaned wood floor.) While the testing might indicate that you can ingest such flakes without harm, it's just plain ol' gross.

Permalink | Reply 
By Hungry Celeste on Nov 26, 2007 02:55PM

re: Hungry Celeste I did a "butcher block" table from a massive cut off of laminated wood I picked up working construction. Probably fir. I thinned down some stain,put it on-let it soak in,sanded the surface. I then thinned some Man-O-War spar varnish…again,so it would soak in and seal. Sanded again. Then I rubbed on mineral oil. 95% of the time I use a cutting board but the surface should be pretty safe and sanitary and I do some cutting on it. It does clean well and I use dilute bleach on it once in awhile,but mainly just routine hot water and a little dish soap. I ain't dead yet. I would typically recommend the mineral oil only route for a cutting board. For a utility top…this is pretty decent.

Most clear coat varnish/varathane type products once dried are pretty much insoluable and chemically inert. If you got a tiny flake in your food….it would not get digested.

Oil stains are not as insoluable or inert. If you use a stain for color you certainly give a clear top coat. Even then…..I'd do that generally for a work surface--not a cutting board.

Permalink | Reply 
By rerem on Dec 18, 2007 10:20PM

There's not really any reason to use anything other than food-safe mineral oil. the wood will darken over time and develop a nice golden patina. just use the oil about daily for a week, 1ce a week for a month, then then once a month. cleaning is best done with lemon juice and kosher salt and scrubbing with that combo. I avoid using my block for cutting chickens, but will do that occasionally. on those occasions, I'll clean with a mild soap and hot hot water , then the lemon/.salt scrub, followed by a feresh application of oil. My block is about 125 years old, and I haven't had any problems yet.

Permalink | Reply 
By chazzerking on Nov 26, 2007 03:23PM

Wow. This is a simple matter. Go to any butcher block store, any kitchen store like BB&B. They all have mineral oil next to the cutting boards. It is the standard. I have 8 ft of butcher block as counter tops for 15 years. Apply several coats of mineral oil and relax. Chop like crazy. Clean with a soapy sponge without a ton of water, just moist. The oil will keep the water (and food stuff) out. If you use the rough side and scrub, you will have to reapply oil. Otherwise, it will last for a while.

If you want to get a good hard surface, the trick is sanding the board. Start with a rough grit, like 80. After you sand, run a moist sponge or paper towel over it and the "nap" will rise up. Sand again. Then go to a 100 grit. Sand, damp wipe and sand. Then a 140 or 160, and do the same. You will get a glass smooth and hard surface. Oil on top of that, and you're good for a year or two.

Permalink | Reply 
By woodburner on Nov 26, 2007 03:24PM

Came across this thread too late-I have a large piece of butcher block top I wanted to use on a little cart-and I mistakenly just slathered it with boiled linseed oil. Is there any way to strip it off/clean it off and start over with a food safe alternative? Or is it useless now? I certainly do not want to cut/chop/put food on anything that is not completely safe for it. Apparently boiled linseed oil is not….

Any suggestions, or should I just go get a new one?

Thanks
David

Permalink | Reply 
By daviddmc on Jan 08, 2008 08:33AM

re: daviddmc Nah, don't throw it out. Wipe off as much linseed oil as possible, then get out your orbital sander (or go buy one). Hit it with some 60 or 80 grit; you ought to be able to take off enough wood to get past the linseed oil in 30 minutes of sanding with coarse grit. Dust it off, wash with warm soapy water, dry well, and wait a couple days….you can usually tell by looking if some areas of the wood still show traces of being oiled (you can also feel this with your palm, too). Keep sanding until you feel better, then oil with something food-safe.

Permalink | Reply 
By Hungry Celeste on Jan 08, 2008 02:47PM

re: Hungry Celeste You are right, HC. My only advice, if OP will be using it for a real, daily cutting board, is to do the coarse 80, then wipe with a damp cloth to bring up the nap, then hit it with a 100, then damp wipe, then hit with a 120, then damp wipe, then hit with a 160, damp again, then finish with 200. damp and 200 again. This way the finish will be smooth and hard as glass. Then apply the mineral oil.

Permalink | Reply 
By woodburner on Jan 08, 2008 05:30PM

Over the years I've made a dozen or so cutting boards ranging from a simple chunk
of leftover maple up through large 3-inch thick, end-grain jobs. The finish I'm currently
using and liking a lot is a homemade concoction of mineral oil and beeswax.

Go to your local craft shop and get a 1 pound package of pure beeswax in the candle
making department for about $10 (this is enough to last you six lifetimes but it's the
smallest amount I've seen available). Then pick up a bottle of mineral oil from the 
drugstore. Get a clean glass jar. Pour about 1/2 cup of oil into it. Add a chunk of wax,
roughly an oil/wax ratio of maybe 4/1. Set the jar in an inch or so of simmering water in
a pot on the stove and heat it up until the wax all melts.

Wipe a generous helping of the warm wax/oil mixture all over the block. Let it soak for
an hour or so then wipe off any excess. The next day the wax/oil in the jar will have 
congealed into a soft jellyish mass so you won't have to re-heat it to make it workable, 
just wipe some more on, let sit for a while, then wipe off the extra. Two applications seem
to suffice before starting to use it, then some more whenever the board starts to look
shabby.

As for daviddmc's predicament: a good scrubbing with strong soap or TSP followed by
a light sanding (which shouldn't take more than about 3 minutes, rather than the 
30 mentioned) and you'll be all set and down to bare wood.

Permalink | Reply 
By uh … art on Jan 10, 2008 03:46PM

re: uh … art Wax melted into oil is great. If you're careful you can even melt them in the microwave. I use filtered unbleached beeswax and mineral oil. You might also try shellac as a base sealer. Before the flames start I DO NOT mean hardware store shellac but the best filtered, unbleached flakes you can find mixed with food grade alcohol (high test clear liquor like everclear or high proof vodka). Shellac is often used to preserve apples, so you have probable eaten it already.

Permalink | Reply 
By Mit on Jan 28, 2008 09:40AM

re: Mit My husband is making us new wood countertops for our kitchen. We wanted to do 100% pure tung oil but cannot get it in our town and will take a while to ship to us. Would a mixture of mineral oil and beeswax be as good or should we wait for tung oil?

Permalink | Reply 
By lostgirl on Feb 13, 2008 07:22AM

re: lostgirl Tung oil is going to give you a much darker color. The wax and oil mixture is almost colorless. Tung oil is a definite amber. Also with the tung oil, you'll get a generally more resilient finish that you can ignore for longer (like a year or so) where the oil/wax is going to need some attention every month or so.

But there's no reason not to try the oil/wax first to see if you like it. It scrubs off pretty easily with hot water and soap (much easier than the tung oil will). Plus, with the beeswax it smells subtly like honey.

I've never had any luck trying to heat it up in the microwave. The jar gets hot but the oil/wax stays cold. A jar in a pot of simmering water is all that works for me.

Permalink | Reply 
By uh … art on Feb 13, 2008 10:50AM

re: uh … art Thanx for the answer . Think I will try oil/beeswax first as I don't mind the reapplying and see how it goes.

Permalink | Reply 
By lostgirl on Feb 13, 2008 11:16AM

re: uh … art Those very small slow cookers (1quart,used for dips, sometimes given away for free with larger slow cookers) are great for keeping oil/wax in a liquid state. If you don't want to commit the cooker to permanent hardware status, put the finish in a glass container inside the cooker full of hot water.

Permalink | Reply 
By Hungry Celeste on Feb 13, 2008 01:25PM

Don't stain it with oil stain. There are things in there that you don't want in your food. IDK about alcohol or water based stains, but my inclination is to advise against them as well.

There are 2 kinds of linseed oil, RAW and BOILED. Linseed oil CAN be fine, but only if it is the RAW, i.e. not boiled variety. Boiled is much more common at the hardware store, so be sure what you're getting. Here's a quick primmer: Linseed oil is made from the seeds of the flax plant. Why then is it called 'linseed' oil? What's the 'lin-' got to do with it? Well, the flax plant itself is used to make linen cloth and thread, so you see the connection between linen and linseed oil. Still, why not call it 'flax-seed' oil? Er. Um. It is called that, too, by people in health food stores who sell it as a dietary supplement, i.e. something you're supposed to eat to make you healthier. So, yes, coat your butcher block in RAW linseed oil, or in flaxseed oil if you want to call it that and you're worried about purity, and can afford to shop at the health food market..

Linseed oil is used in lots of finishes like varnish and paint, but usually this is after various chemical processes have been applied to it. Boiled linseed oil has been boiled and also has chemical agents in it to make it dry. As per the discussion below, these finishes may be non-toxic when dried / cured but (a) if they are a hard surface coating finish they will flake / chip off in your food and just generally look bad if you do any amount of chopping or cutting on the surface; and (b) I'm not sure I want to eat even small amounts of them.

This said, linseed oil is darker - amber - than mineral oil and will continue to darken over time. This may and may not be an issue on a work surface that gets washed and re-oiled and maybe even sanded a little every dozen years. There's no reason you can't mix mineral oil and linseed oil to get a darkness you like, or alternate between them.

I advise heating the linseed oil before applying it, which isn't that difficult if you're in the kitchen. Warmed up, it will be thinner and penetrate more. Just be sensible about oil and open flames, etc. (And, be careful with rags soaked in linseed oil as they can spontaneously combust as the oil oxidizes as it 'dries'. I usually just leave mine spread out outside until they're hardened, then throw them out.)

Permalink | Reply 
By hoobie on Mar 13, 2010 08:52AM

Do NOT use raw flax oil on your butcher block. It will go rancid. That is why raw flax oil is always refridgerated, and why linseed oil for woodwork always contains solvents and petrochemicals to keep it stabilized.

Permalink | Reply 
By Seitan on Mar 13, 2010 02:24PM

re: Seitan I have to respectfully disagree with Seitan. I have yet to experience a problem with flax oil becoming rancid, altho Seitan is definitely correct about the health food stores selling in dark bottles in the fridge section. I typically use the RAW variety from the hardware store which advertises 100% pure. (I suppose that they might mean 100% pure… plus a few toxic additives.) It's not refrigerated, but may have undergone some processing. It's certified EN71 safe for use as a finish on toys, and doesn't have the chipping off issues mentioned elsewhere in this thread. I feel perfectly safe using it.

That said, I have also used the food grade / health food variety (at a couple of friends') on cutting boards and not had a problem with rancid oil.

Permalink | Reply 
By hoobie on Apr 13, 2010 02:18PM

You use mineral oil. In fancy food shops and catalogs they sell oil for butcher blocks, but it is mineral oil. Food safe, non-animal.

Also, you may want to think about sanding that block to a serious hardness before applying the oil. Ask a woodworker, but, basically, it is about using a palm sander and going from an 80 grit to 100, 120, to 160, to 200… basically, from rough to finer and finer. In between passes, a slightly damp wipe will bring up the nap of the wood. as you go along, the surface gets incredibly smooh and hard. it will last for quite a while. If you do it, you''ll think back on the smoothness you feel now, (and think is very smooth), and realize, "wow… it was downright rough when I bought it." GL

Permalink | Reply 
By woodburner on Mar 15, 2010 06:42PM


----------



## SquirrelNuts (Apr 25, 2011)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Food Safe Finishes*
> 
> The Below is informational only. It in no way any reflection on anyones political beliefs. It is for those that would like to do their own research into the subject. This is NOT a political forum so please refrain from posting your political beliefs regarding the FDA or any portion of any Government Entity. We each have our own religious and political beliefs and this topic is not the place for them to be expressed. I fully respect everyones right to have their own thoughts, beliefs and ideas. However, they are not welcome here. Please feel free to start your own thread and discuss your political or religious thoughts and beliefs to your hearts content.
> 
> ...


This will definitely protect a ton of woodworkers until the new "facts" come out. Thanks for the information (again)


----------



## Crushgroovin (May 24, 2010)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Food Safe Finishes*
> 
> The Below is informational only. It in no way any reflection on anyones political beliefs. It is for those that would like to do their own research into the subject. This is NOT a political forum so please refrain from posting your political beliefs regarding the FDA or any portion of any Government Entity. We each have our own religious and political beliefs and this topic is not the place for them to be expressed. I fully respect everyones right to have their own thoughts, beliefs and ideas. However, they are not welcome here. Please feel free to start your own thread and discuss your political or religious thoughts and beliefs to your hearts content.
> 
> ...


That's quite the post Gpastor! Leaving it bare is a very bad idea. That is asking for a Food Bacteria Brothel!!

I use "Salad Bowl Finish" sold at Lowe's on my End Grain Cutting Boards. It leaves a hard smooth finish. Based on my knowledge of food safety issues my biggest concern is using something that keeps bacteria from making a home in the board. Wood cutting boards finished with non hardening finishes are notorious for hosting all kinds of bacteria and food born Yuck! The last thing I want is my kids getting salmonella or other food born bacteria poisoning.

You will have to think logically and figure out what you believe to be safest for your family. Personally I have two boys and they eat food off all kinds of surfaces and not many of them are finished with Mineral Oil.

We all make decisions based on the latest information available. Until I see something that shows cured finishes are not safe I am going trust that companies are making products that won't cause any long term health effects. All day every day we come into contact and ingest items that are governed by FDA regulations. It is up to each individual to decide which of these they are comfortable with.

Just know that it is impossible to avoid ingesting FDA regulated items. The FDA has regulations covering every single item that holds or comes into contact with food, not just finishes. From the container it is put into after it is harvested or manufactured to the fork used to eat it with. The only way to avoid it is to grow all your own food and never buy anything that comes into contact with your homegrown food. I am puzzled as to why people have chosen wood finishes as such a hot button issue when the same regulations that cover wood finishes cover all the other food related items we use on a daily basis.

I am pretty sure that a trip to McDonalds exposes you to far worse chemicals than using a a fully cured Water based Poly to finish your cutting board. Heck I just got a bunch of Beeswax Bears directly from the farm. The bears had to be molded into bears in a plastic mold and they were delivered to me wrapped into a foam cushion wrap. I have no idea what could possibly have been transferred into the wax by those items. So is using that wax safer than using cured Poly? We will never ever know for sure. But we all take gambles in life.

Love the FDA or Hate the FDA, not many of us are able to avoid using items regulated by them. It is our Reality. If you choose Wood finishes as where you draw the line that is your prerogative.

But please know that you are coming into contact with FDA regulated items every day, even if you use mineral oil! the FDA regulates the surface of the machine that was used to bottle your mineral oil & the plastic container it was shipped to you in. That is a "Fact" of today's world.


----------



## Crushgroovin (May 24, 2010)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Food Safe Finishes*
> 
> The Below is informational only. It in no way any reflection on anyones political beliefs. It is for those that would like to do their own research into the subject. This is NOT a political forum so please refrain from posting your political beliefs regarding the FDA or any portion of any Government Entity. We each have our own religious and political beliefs and this topic is not the place for them to be expressed. I fully respect everyones right to have their own thoughts, beliefs and ideas. However, they are not welcome here. Please feel free to start your own thread and discuss your political or religious thoughts and beliefs to your hearts content.
> 
> ...


Interesting to see someone creating a new profile just to reply to my blog. (again)


----------



## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Food Safe Finishes*
> 
> The Below is informational only. It in no way any reflection on anyones political beliefs. It is for those that would like to do their own research into the subject. This is NOT a political forum so please refrain from posting your political beliefs regarding the FDA or any portion of any Government Entity. We each have our own religious and political beliefs and this topic is not the place for them to be expressed. I fully respect everyones right to have their own thoughts, beliefs and ideas. However, they are not welcome here. Please feel free to start your own thread and discuss your political or religious thoughts and beliefs to your hearts content.
> 
> ...


I was going to stay out of this little tiff and somply comment with my honest opinion on the subject. First I read the post and responses though and noticed,

You said this in the original post:
Again, this IS NOT a forum for your own personal Political Views!!!! If you have a problem with the FDA or if You Love the FDA please feel free to write your own blog and tackle that topic. But as far as this thread goes leave the politics out. I am only sharing information from a a source I found and am in no way advocating for or against the FDA or any other Government Entity. If you respect this I will respect You!

Then you said this this in your response to someone:
Just know that it is impossible to avoid ingesting FDA regulated items. The FDA has regulations covering every single item that holds or comes into contact with food, not just finishes. From the container it is put into after it is harvested or manufactured to the fork used to eat it with. The only way to avoid it is to grow all your own food and never buy anything that comes into contact with your homegrown food. I am puzzled as to why people have chosen wood finishes as such a hot button issue when the same regulations that cover wood finishes cover all the other food related items we use on a daily basis.

I am pretty sure that a trip to McDonalds exposes you to far worse chemicals than using a a fully cured Water based Poly to finish your cutting board. Heck I just got a bunch of Beeswax Bears directly from the farm. The bears had to be molded into bears in a plastic mold and they were delivered to me wrapped into a foam cushion wrap. I have no idea what could possibly have been transferred into the wax by those items. So is using that wax safer than using cured Poly? We will never ever know for sure. But we all take gambles in life.

Love the FDA or Hate the FDA, not many of us are able to avoid using items regulated by them. It is our Reality. If you choose Wood finishes as where you draw the line that is your prerogative.

FAIL!!!!!!

Since I feel you are only looking for a further argument, I will bow out of this discussion now. Thank you.


----------



## Pawky (Sep 22, 2010)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Food Safe Finishes*
> 
> The Below is informational only. It in no way any reflection on anyones political beliefs. It is for those that would like to do their own research into the subject. This is NOT a political forum so please refrain from posting your political beliefs regarding the FDA or any portion of any Government Entity. We each have our own religious and political beliefs and this topic is not the place for them to be expressed. I fully respect everyones right to have their own thoughts, beliefs and ideas. However, they are not welcome here. Please feel free to start your own thread and discuss your political or religious thoughts and beliefs to your hearts content.
> 
> ...


Lets assume they all are food safe once fully cured. You now have to ask yourself, how long does it take to fully cure? What if the conditions in your shop change, then how long? What studies have been done to show the proper cure time under different conditions? Now, what about when you or the client needs to refinish the cuttingboard or whatever they are using? How do you safely tell them how to do it? What if your procedure doesn't allow it to completely cure under their conditions in the house? These are all problems that can potentially arise and needs to be looked at more then just can they be safe.

The same is with drugs use in animal agriculture. There are periods of time after use that you cannot use the animal for food. You have to give the drug time to get out of the system. It varies tremendously between the different drugs.


----------



## Jack_T (Feb 6, 2010)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Food Safe Finishes*
> 
> The Below is informational only. It in no way any reflection on anyones political beliefs. It is for those that would like to do their own research into the subject. This is NOT a political forum so please refrain from posting your political beliefs regarding the FDA or any portion of any Government Entity. We each have our own religious and political beliefs and this topic is not the place for them to be expressed. I fully respect everyones right to have their own thoughts, beliefs and ideas. However, they are not welcome here. Please feel free to start your own thread and discuss your political or religious thoughts and beliefs to your hearts content.
> 
> ...


The assertion that Title 21, Part 175 of the Code of Federal Regulations (hereinafter Title 21) supports the proposition that all wood finishes are food safe is flawed and inaccurate.

*Title 21 does not state that all wood finishes manufactured or sold in the United States are food safe.*

Title 21 does not regulate the production of all wood finishes. Title 21 merely sets forth standards (limits for chemical leaching from finishes into food) for finishes (of any surface, wood or otherwise) that come in contact with food. More specifically it addresses:

PART 175-INDIRECT FOOD ADDITIVES: ADHESIVES AND COMPONENTS OF COATINGS

175.105 Adhesives.
175.125 Pressure-sensitive adhesives.
175.210 Acrylate ester copolymer coating.
175.230 Hot-melt strippable food coatings.
175.250 Paraffin (synthetic).
175.260 Partial phosphoric acid esters of polyester resins.
175.270 Poly(vinyl fluoride) resins.
175.300 Resinous and polymeric coatings.
175.320 Resinous and polymeric coatings for polyolefin films.
175.350 Vinyl acetate/crotonic acid copolymer.
175.360 Vinylidene chloride copolymer coatings for nylon film.
175.365 Vinylidene chloride copolymer coatings for polycarbonate film.
175.380 Xylene-formaldehyde resins condensed with 4,4′-isopropylidenediphenol-epichlorohydrin epoxy resins.
175.390 Zinc-silicon dioxide matrix coatings.

Testing for food safeness is set forth for each type of chemical above. The testing and the limits of leaching vary by type of chemical and by the type of food that will come in contact with the finish. Thus, for a finish to be deemed food safe, within the meaning of Title 21, it must be tested in accordance with Title 21 for each food that the claim is to be made for.

It is extremely important to note that manufacturers do not claim that their finishes are food safe.

I have been unable to find any published Title 21 compliant test results of any commercial finish.

I believe that if a finish manufacturer had incurred the expense of Title 21 compliant testing, and had achieved favorable results, it would advertise that fact.

Hence my original statement that "The assertion that Title 21, Part 175 of the Code of Federal Regulations (hereinafter Title 21) supports the proposition that all wood finishes are food safe is flawed and inaccurate."


----------



## WhateverDude (Apr 25, 2011)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Food Safe Finishes*
> 
> The Below is informational only. It in no way any reflection on anyones political beliefs. It is for those that would like to do their own research into the subject. This is NOT a political forum so please refrain from posting your political beliefs regarding the FDA or any portion of any Government Entity. We each have our own religious and political beliefs and this topic is not the place for them to be expressed. I fully respect everyones right to have their own thoughts, beliefs and ideas. However, they are not welcome here. Please feel free to start your own thread and discuss your political or religious thoughts and beliefs to your hearts content.
> 
> ...


Why are you posting the same blog all over again? Didn't stir up enough crap with the last one? Or were things just dying down and you felt like you needed some more attention?


----------



## WhateverDude (Apr 25, 2011)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Food Safe Finishes*
> 
> The Below is informational only. It in no way any reflection on anyones political beliefs. It is for those that would like to do their own research into the subject. This is NOT a political forum so please refrain from posting your political beliefs regarding the FDA or any portion of any Government Entity. We each have our own religious and political beliefs and this topic is not the place for them to be expressed. I fully respect everyones right to have their own thoughts, beliefs and ideas. However, they are not welcome here. Please feel free to start your own thread and discuss your political or religious thoughts and beliefs to your hearts content.
> 
> ...


Nobody can disagree with you without getting political therefore you are protected by the rules of the site. You are so cool!


----------



## Crushgroovin (May 24, 2010)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Food Safe Finishes*
> 
> The Below is informational only. It in no way any reflection on anyones political beliefs. It is for those that would like to do their own research into the subject. This is NOT a political forum so please refrain from posting your political beliefs regarding the FDA or any portion of any Government Entity. We each have our own religious and political beliefs and this topic is not the place for them to be expressed. I fully respect everyones right to have their own thoughts, beliefs and ideas. However, they are not welcome here. Please feel free to start your own thread and discuss your political or religious thoughts and beliefs to your hearts content.
> 
> ...


Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. I feel so honored that so many have you have taken so much time and energy to respond to my posts. A couple of you even went so far as to create whole new progiles just to add your two cents. I must say that I am quite amused at you all. You see if you were to go back and look at every post I have made to others projects, blogs, and topics, my comments are nothing but polite, helpful, and positive. You will also find that all of the people that responded negatively to my post have never drawn my interest enough to comment on anything they have said in other discussions or posts.

Again a big Thank You to all those who have taken their valuable to time to counter my blog posts. I am blessed to have made such a big impression on so many. That I matter enough that someone would go through such effort makes me feel very special.

LOL


----------



## MrBlock (Apr 25, 2011)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Food Safe Finishes*
> 
> The Below is informational only. It in no way any reflection on anyones political beliefs. It is for those that would like to do their own research into the subject. This is NOT a political forum so please refrain from posting your political beliefs regarding the FDA or any portion of any Government Entity. We each have our own religious and political beliefs and this topic is not the place for them to be expressed. I fully respect everyones right to have their own thoughts, beliefs and ideas. However, they are not welcome here. Please feel free to start your own thread and discuss your political or religious thoughts and beliefs to your hearts content.
> 
> ...


"You will also find that all of the people that responded negatively to my post have never drawn my interest enough to comment on anything they have said in other discussions or posts."

No you keep your insults to the private message you send to them before blocking their accounts. That's called "taking the high road" I suppose. You are just so superior! Please tell us all how great you are!


----------



## Crushgroovin (May 24, 2010)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Food Safe Finishes*
> 
> The Below is informational only. It in no way any reflection on anyones political beliefs. It is for those that would like to do their own research into the subject. This is NOT a political forum so please refrain from posting your political beliefs regarding the FDA or any portion of any Government Entity. We each have our own religious and political beliefs and this topic is not the place for them to be expressed. I fully respect everyones right to have their own thoughts, beliefs and ideas. However, they are not welcome here. Please feel free to start your own thread and discuss your political or religious thoughts and beliefs to your hearts content.
> 
> ...


You made a 3rd profile just for little old me? Thanks man!


----------



## 747DRVR (Mar 18, 2009)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Food Safe Finishes*
> 
> The Below is informational only. It in no way any reflection on anyones political beliefs. It is for those that would like to do their own research into the subject. This is NOT a political forum so please refrain from posting your political beliefs regarding the FDA or any portion of any Government Entity. We each have our own religious and political beliefs and this topic is not the place for them to be expressed. I fully respect everyones right to have their own thoughts, beliefs and ideas. However, they are not welcome here. Please feel free to start your own thread and discuss your political or religious thoughts and beliefs to your hearts content.
> 
> ...


I disagree


----------



## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Food Safe Finishes*
> 
> The Below is informational only. It in no way any reflection on anyones political beliefs. It is for those that would like to do their own research into the subject. This is NOT a political forum so please refrain from posting your political beliefs regarding the FDA or any portion of any Government Entity. We each have our own religious and political beliefs and this topic is not the place for them to be expressed. I fully respect everyones right to have their own thoughts, beliefs and ideas. However, they are not welcome here. Please feel free to start your own thread and discuss your political or religious thoughts and beliefs to your hearts content.
> 
> ...


In Scotland we don't have all the same legislation.
We tend to follow our cousins across the pond.
I just use mineral oil for food products, so far no problems
I used to use grapeseed oil but was a bit worried about potential allergies
Seems like someone will be allergic to something.
Has anyone came across anyone with an allergy to mineral oil?

Jamie


----------



## Crushgroovin (May 24, 2010)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Food Safe Finishes*
> 
> The Below is informational only. It in no way any reflection on anyones political beliefs. It is for those that would like to do their own research into the subject. This is NOT a political forum so please refrain from posting your political beliefs regarding the FDA or any portion of any Government Entity. We each have our own religious and political beliefs and this topic is not the place for them to be expressed. I fully respect everyones right to have their own thoughts, beliefs and ideas. However, they are not welcome here. Please feel free to start your own thread and discuss your political or religious thoughts and beliefs to your hearts content.
> 
> ...


Jamie,

Only when ingested directly from the bottle in large amounts. If you do that your behind will "Sneeze" uncontrollably!


----------



## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

Crushgroovin said:


> *Food Safe Finishes*
> 
> The Below is informational only. It in no way any reflection on anyones political beliefs. It is for those that would like to do their own research into the subject. This is NOT a political forum so please refrain from posting your political beliefs regarding the FDA or any portion of any Government Entity. We each have our own religious and political beliefs and this topic is not the place for them to be expressed. I fully respect everyones right to have their own thoughts, beliefs and ideas. However, they are not welcome here. Please feel free to start your own thread and discuss your political or religious thoughts and beliefs to your hearts content.
> 
> ...


LoL


----------

