# Long term review, the good, and the bad.



## steve_in_ohio

I also have this saw and I do have to agree with you with your problems, with my saw the miter scale is also off a degree, but I only use it for cross cutting boards to rough length, which the saw does well at. Especially for the price, I only paid $80 for mine.


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## dbhost

Do you know the miter scale is adjustable? I set the scale for a friend that has the same saw and his was off by about 3 deg…

Once dialed it though, the saw does cut really nice…


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## Blackie_

I'm sorry DB but I'm not with you on this, (Bad experience with this brand) my first and never again saw was purchased from HF also the Chicago Electric, never again will I buy anything that requires precision and accuracy when it comes to woodworking from HF or any other low end tools sales department or vendor, I've learned my lesson, I'm actually spending more in the long run from replacing faulty cheap equipment then if I had just started off with top high quality equipment to began with, The Chicago Electric I purchased had no fine tune on the turn table thus it was a full half scale off, I had to continually square up the blade to the fence using a framing square and rotate the table off of the 0 mark before any cutting was done, I put it out on the curb and put a take me sign on it, I now own a Dewalt DW717 a huge! difference, Now… after saying that, I'm not apposed to buying from HF just not anything that requires Precision, I'm having good luck with my DC unit from HF, I'm now in the process of replacing other machinery from HF such as the bench top drill press, it was replaced by Porter Cable floor model and am now in the process of replacing all of my Ryobi equipment.


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## jbertelson

I think that comes under a corollary of "if it isn't broke, don't fix". In this case, "if it does the job, don't replace it".

The only tools I have replaced over the years are battery operated hand held drills, a Skil saw that final fell apart, and a drill press that was very cheap and limited in its abilities. I took the platform off of it and screwed the rest into a pillar in the shop. Then I attached a hand set to it and used it to predrill holes for small nails that I used to build small plywood items out of nails and glue. Now…......I use a pin or brad nailer, and it has finally fallen into disuse.

The sawdust issue with your saw I suspect is universal. I have a Kapex at La Conner, and even attached to a DC it spews sawdust. That is why I was interested to see your hood. The Kapex may actually be better than average at DC for all I know, since it is the only slider I have owned. It has a very small footprint which was the main selling point for me, and I wanted to approximate the accuracy of my RAS on crosscuts. It makes a very clean cut, and is accurate…....but it does spew sawdust back of it.

Again, talking about La Conner, I purchased a plunge saw as well when I bought the Kapex, and originally thought that I would not be able to fit in a TS. I was going to try to make do with the Kapex, plunge saw, and a band saw. But once I had a temporary bench and band saw purchased, I saw I had a dead corner in my garage shop that would fit a TS with a couple of inches to spare. I find the plunge saw to be an a great addition, and wish I had one here in Anchorage.

Later….........


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## Dedvw

I'm glad you fixed the problem of it falling out of alignment. I've read a handful of reviews regarding HF bladed tools having alignment issues. I paid $180 for a 12' dual miter Hitachi (you can still get it on sale for that price once a year at Lowes) that I used for about 4 years. That sucker cut perfectly out of the box and every time I used it for the next 4 years. I was sad to see it go but ended up replacing it with a slider. I look at it as a couple "off" cuts on a project could easily pay the extra $100 for my Hitachi.

That being said, I'm not poo pooing on HF completely. I do own a buffer and some other things from them that I am completely happy with.


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## dbhost

Well, budget being what it is, I couldn't afford the slider I wanted. I honestly would prefer the Hitachi dual bevel 12" slider with the front rails similar to the Kapex. I am NOT willing to pay Festool prices even if I won the lotto so that is kind of off the table entirely… If I come accross a good condition Hitachi, or a great sale price I will grab one, but it has to be under the $300.00 mark for me at this point.

Overall, once the alignment issues and the lousy blade were squared away, I have been happy with the saw. I totally agree with Blackie_ if I wasn't able to get this thing lined up, it would have gone back to HF and I would have gone looking elsewhere…


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## dbhost

Blackie_ FWIW, I usually agree with you on the HF and items that need accuracy issue. A friend has the 10" version of this saw, so I kind of knew the issues going in and was willing to gamble.

I do wonder if the Chicago Electric saw you had was the one with the Orange motor cover. I am not familiar with those, but I know mine has adjustments for dang near everything. It takes some finesse to get it lined up, and tightened down… The lack of thread locker was a real bonehead move on their part…


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## Racer2007

I have the same saw now for a little of 2 years and had the same issues as you and the same fixes and it has been dead on now since. And this is even with having to haul it out of storage in the apartment and drag it out to my work area in the parking lot every time I need to use it and then drag it back into the apartment when done. And yes that stock blade is BAD .
Thier new model looks to have a smaller motor but it could be as powerful or even more with the improvements in motor designs over the years.


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## dbhost

I have been annoyed by the new model. I wanted a double bevel but really couldn't afford one when I bought my slider, and then 3 years later out comes the double bevel at a good price… I am not convinced of a need for it now though. I am happy enough that if I upgrade off of this one, there are really only 2 choices, a Festool Kapex, which I already said I won't pay for, or the Hitachi double bevel with the front facing slides…

I do think the problem a lot of folks have with this saw is the fact that yeah, you do have to fiddle with it once the dumb thing goes out of adjustment because of the thread locker not being used… But once that is fixed and given a new blade, I am happy with it anyway…


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## cutworm

Thanks for the post. After reading your blog - OEM blades are not good on most saws. Not sure why they call it dust collection on miter saws. The little bag is more of a decoration. My Ridgid and others I have owned all perform poorly here. I usually wheel my saw over by the garage door and open it. Sawdust goes out in the driveway. Blow it off when finished.
I guess the loose bolts would be my only negative comments based on your blog. Sounds like a decent saw to me.
I would have rated it a 4.
Thanks again.


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## Blackie_

Any and all cutting blades of any kind including drill bits purchased from HF, I've found to be dual or defective, so it's not just OEM, well excluding router bits, I've not had any issues with those.

DB, yes I had the sliding orange 10" one, as for as the DW 717 I replaced it with, it is a slider with double bevel but it's only a 10" which serves me well, I got it on a clearance from Lowes at around $420.00. On a side note I also just replaced my Ryobi 13" 1301 planer with a Dewalt as well, the Ryobi did what it was expected to do but it gave up after 5 years, motor gave out a couple months later after replacing brushes, all of my Ryobi routers have been replaced with Dewalt and Porter Cable.

I understand that what I do with my woodworking may not be what a lot of others do as for as what we can afford, just one box that I made after selling it paid for the DW717 in one turn, all of the higher end equipment, Grizzly, Ridgid, Dewalt, Porter Cable, etc… that I've purchased for my shop replacing faulty equipment has already been paid off several times over in one years time period, if you are just a hobbyist then yea I can understand spending only what your budget allows, everything that I make is on the market and customer related and so I can't afford mistakes of any kind.


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## Blackie_

Ooops meant dull not dual.


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## jbertelson

I suspect that there are many differences between what professional woodworkers versus hobbyist woodworkers do with power tools. The size, meaning the length and thickness of the pieces of raw material are more likely to be larger for the professional. The intensity of use, meaning the likelihood that the motors will be stressed is also more likely in the professional. And of course, the hours of use will accumulate much faster with the pro. For instance, there was a very large amount of Jatoba used in the remodeling of each of the floors of the older part of our house. It would be unlikely that a hobbyist would ever mill and cut that amount of a very heavy, hard, and oily wood. One of the mill shops that our contractor used said they would never mill large amounts of Jatoba again….....it was too hard on his machines.

I definitely have some cheap power tools that I will outlive, not because they are so wonderful, but because the hours of use will be accumulated slowly. The best power tools I own are in my vacation home, where space was a premium, and dust collection important.

So I suspect dbhost will be able to get by with that Chicago Electric slider, but he will have to do more fussing, and it will probably just take more time to do a job. But if your livelihood depends on a machine, then down time for repairs, or redo's of some cuts would be costly. I have an ultrasound machine in my job that costs me over $1000 a month for a maintenance contract. But I don't have any duplicate machines because of the high initial cost, and down time of over a day is unacceptable. If I have a transducer go bad, I call the repair people, they instantly FedEx me a new one overnight, and I send back the old one in the box that the new one came in.

It is hard for a casual user to evaluate power tools and make a review. Here, dbhost essentially told us you can make this saw work for you if you are a hobbyist. He probably doesn't know if it would work for a professional. Blackie tells us, you are better off with a different grade of machine if you are a professional. That's why I always read the comments as well as the review of the power tools I buy. You get more than one perspective when you read the comments, and the comments can be decisive in a purchase.


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## raydawg

When does the hitachi go on sale at Lowe's?


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## dbhost

Don't get me wrong, there are a TON of reasons I would have preferred the front slide Hitachi over this machine. HOWEVER, considering the use this gets, it fits the need perfectly. I did have to fiddle with it some to get it dialed in, no big deal, fine tuning power tools is kind of a given for any price point below Festool.

I am not saying that this tool is inappropriate for a professional. It is inappropriate for a professional that expects it to hold up long term, but VERY appropriate for a professional that needs a slider to get work done where protection and security of the tool itself are questionable on the job site. I can't tell you how many miter saws get stolen per year from job sites other than I hear about it a LOT. I know my local Harbor Freight is selling miter saws like crazy to contractors that don't want to spend a bucket of cash on a good saw only to get it soaked in the rain, or stolen by a sticky fingered coworker or passer by…

Once set this saw has been dead accurate. I frequently knock out picture frames with it, so my 45s have to be 45, and they are, every time… Spend some time with initial setup, use Loctite and get it dialed in it will stay there. For a hobby user, or even a light use professional it is a great tool.

For a heavy use professional doing large jobs with tons of large, heavy, rapidly repeated cuts I suspect you are going to over stress a light duty saw like this.

I have in the time I have owned it, cut a LOT of walnut, maple, and pecan, sometimes doing large numbers of repeated cuts using production stops / jigs to knock out a large number of length matching parts. No issues at all.

Yes, expected duty cycle is something to take into consideration when buying tools. As a hobbyist, I seriously doubt I will ever wear out my Ryobi planer, or my Sunhill jointer, However my old Ryobi router got sold in favor of a Hitachi, for a number of reasons.

It's sort of like if you were going shopping for a new truck. Do you need a Toyota Tacoma? Do you need a full size half ton? 3/4? 1 ton? Or maybe you need a Duece and a half…

I try to emphasize this whenever I give reviews, or comments on tools. Pick your tools, and setup that meets your needs and budget. And don't go by just name brands. Some of the big name brands have put out embarassing duds. Some of the cheapies have put out some real gems. Getting through the morass that is tool shopping isn't always straight forward…

For me, my budget, and my needs, I am set up well, and will likely at my age, have most of my equipment long outlive me. And I am in my mid 40s!

Now if I were running a heavy production shop, I would probably break just about every single machine I own in less than 3 months time. It's just not built for that sort of use.


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## dbhost

Another thing I wanted to mention to Blackie_ I agree, for the most part on your appraisal of HF bits and blades, pretty much anything with a cutting edge from them. With one distinct exception.

Their bimetal hole saws have been shockingly good. I have had a few Vermont American, and DeWalt hole saws in the past, and the Warrior brand from HF compare favorably in actual use to the DeWalts. They put the Vermont Americans to shame…

If you've read much of my writing, you know I am no fan of HF bits or blades, I was loathe to buy hole saws from them but honestly, they had the size I needed for a job RIGHT NOW kind of thing, so I gave it a shot, and boy am I glad I did…

The plain black steel ones however are still disposable garbage.


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