# dyeing wood for marquetry



## gumby (Feb 13, 2007)

I would like to make some realistic leaves for a double bevel marquetry project. I will be making my own 1/16 " veneer. Is there a way to dye the wood green to penetrate into the veneer so I can make leaves that will stay green after scraping the surface flush with the rest of the inlay? alternatively is there a wood that is naturally green that I am not aware of? Thanks for any help

tom


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## Julian (Sep 30, 2008)

For dying all the way through you'll want to look into vacuum infusion. Here's a great website for learning how to do it.


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

Julian - I looked at the article and video on Joe's site, but don't grasp the process. What part does the vacuum play in the dye penetrating the wood? Is the vacuum on one side and the dye on the other? I could be completely dense here.

Steve.


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## Sawdust2 (Mar 18, 2007)

Wood is porous.
By immersing the wood into the dye solution and then attaching the vacuum it will draw the dye solution into the pores as the vacuum sucks the air out of the wood.
Obviously, the more porous the wood, like balsa, or the thinner the slice, the more the dye will be infused into the wood.

If your leaves are small enough you can put them in a pint or quart jar, without the lid, and put that inside a gallon pickle jar. Attach your vacuum to the pickle jar and wait a day or so.

Or you can buy white veneer and just let is soak in a green solution (diluted food coloring) for about 30 seconds
Or you can buy green veneer. Paul Schurch sells green veneer.

Lee.


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## tomd (Jan 29, 2008)

You can do a search for alowood it comes in several colors, Rockler used to carry it. It is real wood but colored all the way through.


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## gumby (Feb 13, 2007)

thanks for all the info, since I don't have a vacuum pump I'll try looking for green veneer

tom


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## Billp (Nov 25, 2006)

You can also get dyed veener at B&B rare woods


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## daveintexas (Oct 15, 2007)

One tip I read from a very good woodworker is to use Rit dye.
I have not tried it, but it makes sense.


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## Jones2016 (Dec 13, 2016)

I am trying to do full-thickness veneer dying (Transtint) but have not had success yet with either denatured alcohol or lacquer thinner.

I am hoping someone here has done vacuum infusion for dying veneer and can give me a few hints… here are my questions:

1. Needed vacuum: the vacuum infuser from JoeWoodworker (excellent site, helpful) as put together with standard vacuum pump system there is preset for 21 mm Hg. Is that enough, or do I need a stronger vacuum?

2. Time for infusion: I note above that there is a recommendation to put it in a pickle jar under vacuum for a "day or so". What time table am I looking at to expect success? I have tried up to an hour as a single vacuum application without significant effect except for external staining.

3. Is there any advantage of pulling vacuum more than once to try to "force" dye in ?

4. The dyes I am using are able to be used in any solvent-but if I want to add white to them to get different hues, etc, THAT stuff is more particulate. Is there any way that this would be able to be incorporated in full-thickness dying?

5. I have already purchased multiple dyed veneer and the color options are not sufficient-and actually there are very few sources outside of Europe/UK/Italy/India… and hence the need to get this working.

I appreciate any help with this! Thanks!


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

For green leaves I use poplar. Parts of it are green and I set this green wood aside to use when I do this double bevel inlay/marquetry









.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

I am dying some 1.5mm (1/16") veneer at tha moment. For this experiment I used textile dye (Tulip I think it was) and soaked the poplar veneer in a hot bath of it for three days. It is penetrated all the way through.


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## Jones2016 (Dec 13, 2016)

That result looks great. I unfortunately don't have the space/equipment/ability to oversee readily to use heated baths. Also trying to use non-water solvents to avoid wood grain issues. I'm therefore stuck with having to figure out the vacuum infusion technique. There is very little helpful info out there in terms of pressure, time under pressure, time before removing from solvent dye, solvents, wood species that work great vs terribly.

Have tried repeated searches on this. The author of the vacuum infusion device cited at the beginning of this thread does not appear to offer support (has moved on to other things).

If anyone can give further direction, that would be great!


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

The hot bath is easy, just a cheap aluminum baking dish from Safeway and a thrift store warming tray (not a grill, just a warming tray). I don't undrstand your grain issues. I am using this for some very intricate marquetry and I have no grain issues. Can you expand?
The last picture shows a simple test set I did to check on sand shading characteristics of the dyed veneer (1/16" Poplar)


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## Jones2016 (Dec 13, 2016)

Beautiful work-That setup looks like something I could do…

Is the heating tray a simple on/off or is there a temperature you set it as (like an electric griddle)?

Do you cover the tray to avoid water loss (I assume water)?

My concern about the grain is that H20 would raise the wood grain. But since final projects get sanded, suppose that doesn't matter as much?

Can you dye more than one piece at a time? I assume you would have to physically separate them somehow but still keep them submerged?

Textile dye: any fabric dye would give similar results? I have invested in some Transtint dyes-

I assume that no color mixed with white would work (appears white works only for surface prep).

Thank you for your help!


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

My tray has a thermostat but as it is just a warming tray, I set at high which I guess is around 140-150 degrees, hot to touch but doesn't burn you.
The pan is actually a disposable turkey roasting pan that the grocery stores sell. They come with a high, arched top which I did use. The strange thing is that after a day on the hot dye it was dead flat across the pan as if it was made of shrink wrap.
Don't worry about the grain. I use water at several stages of the marquetry process as I use only hide glues and it isn't anything to be concerned with.
I have been dying four at a time with nothing is the pan to separate the pieces. I move them once or twice in the three days and they seem to be fine. Don't worry about keeping them submerged either. They will sink quite soon.
I have used Colour FX dye before. It is an aniline dye like Transtint. They may work on large pieces like this but would be much more expensive and may not be as effective. I now know this works so it will be my go to from now on.
I'm using Tulip dye (Walmart) at the moment but Rit or Tintex would be about the same I believe. You won't believe how cheap the stuff is.
I don't understand your comment about white, sorry.


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## Jones2016 (Dec 13, 2016)

Thanks!

Tulip dye: the stuff for tie-dyed t-shirts ? LMBO 

How much did you have to use for the vat of green ie one tube/half tube per what volume of water? I assume that they can be mixed/matched. Would be nice if there were a color wheel…

Are the Tulip dyes liquid (looks like)?

I had actually thought about buying pipettes to accurately reproducibly measuring the Transtint stuff-and may consider for these (but would likely be overkill)

The white question: softens colors but it is a particulate suspension and settles out in a bottle of "grey" that I made (now black with white at the bottom)


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## XquietflyX (Oct 9, 2015)

sorry wrong thread


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

I used this stuff. One pack to a gallon of boiling water as I remember.


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## Jones2016 (Dec 13, 2016)

Was looking at different dyes on Amazon-found that Rit has a variety of "core" ones, and some premixed-then found the PDF file they have which shows the mixing recipes to make 500 colors 

https://www.ritstudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/ColorRit_FINAL.pdf

Similar stuff, but recipe for 3 gallons of stuff in a variety of colors:
https://www.ritstudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Rit_FavoriteColors_2000_FINAL.pdf

Or for 1 quart:
https://www.ritstudio.com/color-library/how-to-mix-colors/

Most are just 1 cup volume-so any large-scale volume would take likely a hole package/bottle, but to be able to actually perhaps get an idea of the starting color is helpful. I've ordered up a heating tray and some dye to give it a try.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

It is interesting to note that different woods will dye different colours in the same dye.

Poplar in green Tulip dye … Nice green for foliage










European Pear in the same dye … Teal, good for San Jose Sharks uniforms










I have some English Boxwood that just came out today and is drying in the press right now and some Sycamore that comes out tomorrow. I'll post them when they are dried to show what colours they end up.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

European Pear, Sycamore, Curly Maple, Boxwood ........ all dyed in the same bath for the same time.


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## Jones2016 (Dec 13, 2016)

Very interesting re: different shades, different species, same dye bath, same time! Nice way to get variations on a given color just by having multiple species involved. Must say that at least head-to-head, I like the sycamore the best. It looks like the green veneer package that I bought from Sauers (excellent product) but I suspect you made it for far less!!!

Which one would you conclude is closest to actual dye color?

And as regards the 3 days on high heat, was that trial & error, or did you simply try 3 days and it worked?

I have a vacuum bag for glue-ups, but don't have a press. Is there anything special you use for the press, or simply different platens with a ton of weight on top?

I am encouraged that the curly maple took up stain (assume full thickness?). Has there been any wood that has NOT worked using this method, in your experience?

And is there anyplace where you could recommend veneer purchase of 50-100 sq foot of a given veneer at a good price (have ordered from "TheHobbitHouse" on ebay (excellent), and will likely order form CertainlyWood who has great prices) ?

I am now day 1 of 3 in some sample dying to see if I have the same success in replicating your efforts…


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Actual dye colour is probably the sycamore and poplar. Concentrated in the tray it looks almost black so … hard to tell for sure.
Three days was just a shot in the dark and it worked for the poplar. In fact when I dried and cut a chip off the sycamore, pear, boxwood and c. maple, they weren't fully penetrated I will give them another three days and look again.
To muddy the waters even more I got some pear to dye right through in red Rit dye in three days.
My conclusion is that this works but there are lots of variables and a lot of experimentation is required before any solid instructions are possible.
Keep in mind, I am dying 1/16" veneer. Almost all the commercial veneer available is 1/42" or less so it should penetrate much more easily. As for the green veneer you bought, I'm betting it was thin sliced veneer as I have not seen any 1/16 dyed veneer anywhere.
As for suppliers, there are lots. I like Certainly Wood because they carry more thick veneer than anyone else (this side of Paris) but I also buy from B and B Rare Woods, Constantines, and occasionally others. You need to do some surfing and look at what various suppliers have.
I have a couple of veneer presses. I used to use vacuum bags but I now prefer mechanical pressing especially for veneer and marquetry.
Here is a blog on building one on the cheap and even a way to make your own press screws.
http://lumberjocks.com/shipwright/blog/47905
http://lumberjocks.com/shipwright/blog/40173


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## Jones2016 (Dec 13, 2016)

Awesome, thank you.

I have purchased from all of the sites you named…spent more $ there than my wife cares to think about.

Is this where you would get the Poplar & sycamore? These are not cheap by any means :-( European pear esp is not cheap…

I am indeed using thinner veneer-most is 1/42 inch but some is thicker. I appreciate the links to the veneer press.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

1/16" poplar at Certainly Wood is $1/ sq. foot. I buy a board or two at the BORG and re-saw my own when I just need a bit to dye.
My 1/16" sawn sycamore is from Paris.
The Pear and Boxwood were from Rare Woods USA. They were boards that I re-sawed myself.
The expensive stuff on my current project was the 1/16" tulipwood. I bought it in small boards and cut it as well. It was ~$150 / board foot!










If you are going to do much veneering, particularly small stuff like most of mine, a screw press is almost essential. 
The biggest (but not only) advantage is the ability to use hot cauls. You just can't do that in a plastic bag.
Hot cauls are the best and easiest way to flatten wavy veneer and they also bring out some of the many advantages of hide glues. OK, I'm rambling now…...


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

> The biggest (but not only) advantage is the ability to use hot cauls. You just can't do that in a plastic bag. Hot cauls are the best and easiest way to flatten wavy veneer…


Paul - any link or other post reference on the "Hot Cauls?" I've got some wavy figured thin veneer that doesn't seem to flatten well with veneer softener. I have bow clamps (cauls) but not sure how you get the heat.

+1 on Constantines for 1/16" veneer.

Steve.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Try this one Steve. You don't need the softener either.
http://woodworkingmonthly.com/issue-1-04-october-2016/flattening-wavy-veneer
PM me if you need more.


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

My figured cherry looks real similar to the elm you started with. I'm going to check my metal hoard tomorrow, know I had some 1/4" aluminum in there somewhere. Those couple pictures got me on track. Will post any results.
Steve.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Glad to help.


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## Jones2016 (Dec 13, 2016)

I tried staining some of the veneer (1/42 inch and a bit thicker) in about 1 tsp of Navy Blue Rit liquid dye in 1 quart of solution. Put on my (newly purchased) heating tray on high with the intention of having it there for three days. About 1 1/2 days in, the aluminum foil container I was using (8×8) failed and some of the solution leaked out on to the heating tray. I turned it off and took the wood out later that day (could never find the leak) and dried the stuff down.

Here is the solution color (paper towel dipped in)









Here are the 6 species used: Anigre, Cherry, Holly, Koto, hard Maple, Tupelo


















Cut them down/taped down (now alphabetical order), used 80 grit sandpaper to sand/chisel to gouge (went through some of the veneer accidentally: Koto) and here are the results:









Looks like all did fine except for cherry (not a shock), and took < 2 days for thinner veneer… was happy that the Holly ($1 sq foot) and Tupelo ($0.50 sq foot; both samples from Certainly Wood, where I will now buy a lot  ) worked well. I would love to try Poplar, but don't have the ability to sand down the 1/16" stuff to the veneer thickness needed (unless my wife lets me buy a drum sander…).

Anyway, I am thrilled with the results as this should allow a new wide spectrum of colors. I plan on using the liquid Rit dyes and purchasing a pipette device (have used them in labs) to accurately reproduce the colors.

Paul, you are a genious


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

No need to miss out on poplar. https://www.certainlywood.com/images-locator.php?item=POPLAR%201606
I just gave you the 1/16" link because that is the thickness I like to use. The above link doesn't give a thickness so it will be their standard 1/42" and should match most other commercial sliced veneer you have.


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## Jones2016 (Dec 13, 2016)

How could I have missed that! Thank you


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## Jones2016 (Dec 13, 2016)

Had my recently purchased heating tray die on day #4 ($50 from Amazon): looks like the one I bought was not made to stay on for 2.5-3 days… 1 day in a second dye effort failed to have full-thickness penetration of 1/42 inch veneer.

I bought/returned a large pancake griddle (to use as a heatplate) when I thought of other options. One: get a large heating bath (like used in a lab): some are available for relatively cheap on Ebay but who knows how well/if they work. New options for something in the >12 inch length/width options are at least $200 and up. The sky is the limit…

Then, a co-worker described an idea of making a water bath using a sous vide apparatus-which can hold foods at a fixed temperature in a a water bath for hours or days (depending on the food). It can easily do 150 decrees F. Best yet, he is letting me borrow his. I bought a $4 plastic bin at Lowe's, cut out a space on the top for the sous vide thing and heated it up to 150 (took about 45 minutes). You can use whatever size container for this-larger ones would take longer to get to temperature. But you could have an easy-to-store "water bath". The one my friend let me use is an Anova costs $150 on Amazon (if I buy one, would get the 4-year warranty for $20 :-/ ). The Anova has a more unique mounting mechanism that is superior to the simple clip on most; there are a few with a similar mount that are cheaper (the $100 with no warranty). I am TOLD that some recipes for the sous vide machines call for being on for up to 72 hours. Shown here before it got up to 150 F but it did indeed get there…









I was given a FoodSaver storage system which was sitting in my attic never used-until this PM. Has up to 11" width bags, whatever length you want (up to whatever limit of "water bath" is). I cut a few small pieces of veneer, put them in 8" bags (trial), got most of the air out, vacuum removed the rest with a few ml removed by vacuum. Gave rise to nicely contained individual packets. Made 4: 2 different colors 2 each, and will try in 150 degrees for 1.5 and 2.5 days and compare for penetration of dye. During my post-collegiate studies, I had worked in a lab and frequently used small heat-sealed bag for in-situ hybridizations (with radioactive probes, not clothing dyes) so the concept of using a contained bagging system is not a new one. These were similarly placed in a controlled water bath (usually 37 centrigrade…). This is simply a much larger version of the same. This effort was using small samples of veneer and only 1 cup of dye solution:



















I won't know for several days how well this works, but IF it does, then it's just a matter of determining how cheap I should get on the sous vide machine. Also, the nice thing: you can have several different colors/species of dyes used in different bags at the same time. Limitation = "water bath" area.

Hope it works…


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## wuddoc (Mar 21, 2008)

I was introduced to making green leaves by an older gentleman decades ago. It turned out to be large stems of poison ivy dried out then sliced and cut. He claimed the dried out poison ivy was okay to handle. I choose not to.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

This sounds expensive! 
I now have two warming trays running and they cost less than $5 for the two. I believe one was $3 and the other $1. They are readily available in second hand and thrift stores.the second one I got is much more powerful. I turned it on high and left it. .... came back a few hours later and it was happily boiling away. We will see if that works better.


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## Jones2016 (Dec 13, 2016)

Local thrift stores here don't sell electric stuff due to risk of electrical failure/liability so I don't have an easy way to get cheap warming trays. :-/

I had the FoodSaver thing (savings of $100-200 there) but it was so old that the instructions came on a VHS!!

Would be looking at real $ for the sous vide thing though.

I have the current water-bath thing right at 150 F. You had mentioned "boiling away" on your "new" tray: do you recommend higher than 150 F?

BTW I appreciate all the help & insight-I am impressed that you take time to help newbies out


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

I'm as much of a newby as you are at this. 
I don't know is the quick answer on the temperature. It seems it may be quicker but there are so many variables.
... You could spend a very great deal of time experimenting to get all the answers. I'm just probing around to find one way that works for the veneer I need right now. Over time I may try to actually develop some knowledge on this topic but it will take lots of time and patience.


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## Jones2016 (Dec 13, 2016)

Dye effort in constant heat water bath @ 150 F using sous vide device. Kept in there for 1.5 and 2.5 days. Sanded (80 grit) aggressively then smooth sanded, attacked with chisel. Using roughly 1/42 " veneer.
From left-right: Holly, Hard Maple, Tupelo. Top row: 1.5 days, bottom row: 2.5 days. Also including the Rit color formula (used liquid dye) showing that wood stains differently than clothing…



































Looks like both times (1.5 and 2.5 days) worked, perhaps a bit better at 2.5 days in terms of subtly darker. Looks like nice full-thickness penetration although hard maple not as good.

Am now trying the blue again and will compare 100% undiluted, 50%, 25%, 12.5% of original blue & see what variations I get there. Will cook for likely 1.5 days…


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

My latest twist is keeping the layers apart with brads. I think it has to work better even though I haven't had much trouble with pieces touching as long as they are rearranged occasionally.


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## Jones2016 (Dec 13, 2016)

Have likely gone overboard on this-but needed to try to figure out how to get lighter than full-bore colors in a reproducible manner without a ton of trial & error. I scaled down the Rit dye formulas and measured with lab-quality pipettes and did full-strength, x2, x4, x8,x16, x32, x64, x128 dilutions. Samples were 1/4 inch hole-punched Tupelo (white gum) in 2 ml pipette tubes incubated at 150 F for 48 hours. I had earlier tried both this and Poplar and had essentially identical staining-so used only Tupelo for dilution efforts. For lighter dilutions, the wood always was darker than the solution. Many of the formulas at full-strength gave rise to colors that were too dark.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FWIW I went back to Tulip dye which always did give me better penetration and also gave better mixing proportions on the package ( add the package to 1 quart of steaming water). I got much better colours. The RIT, besides taking longer to penetrate came out too dark for my needs most of the time. These are my final colours. I'm quite happy with them.


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## EngineerChic (Jan 7, 2017)

One suggestion … Look into proccion fiber dyes instead of rit brand. Years ago I used to hand dye fabric for quilting and Dharma Trading Company has a great selection of dyes for tye die and other uses. The color fastness of professional quality dyes is much better than Rit and the quality of the color was amazing (deep, true colors and easy to mix).

There are different dyes on that site for dying silk, wool, etc but the ones for cotton are also good for wood. The powders go a long way. Soda ash is the fixative you use for fabric but it's also known as "washing soda". It lets you use the dye at low temp (hot tap water from the sink and then just let it sit in Ziploc bags on the table).

Disclaimer - I used this stuff on cotton, but I recall lots of chatter in the art quilt community about how rit dyes fade over time. YMMV, but I loved the effect of the Proccion products.


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## MikeinWaunakee (Jan 2, 2017)

Paul, do you have any feeling as to the colorfastness of the Tulip dyes? I've read elsewhere that RIT dyes fade terribly, and I don't know if this is the case for all "fabric" oriented dyes. I'd like to dye my own 1/16" sycamore and poplar, but not if it will fade dramatically in a short time.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I do lots of double bevel inlays but I use all 3/8" stock. For green leaves I just use green (in color) poplar. It is not a dark green but looks impressive in the cedar background. I get the green poplar from pallet type blanks from a local lumber yard. I guess green poplar is considered inferior so it is used for skids and pallets.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

I've used green poplar but it doesn't stay very green. It still works but my dyed green is a lot more impressive and life like for leaves etc. As for colour fastness I haven't heard much bad about either of the dyes I used (Rit and Tulip) and I have some fabric dyed veneer that my friend Elaine (LJ justoneofme) dyed years ago and it is still very nice.

Bottom line: If you put expensive marquetry in direct sunlight, you need to expect even natural colours to change.

The leaves in these two photos are first poplar that was quite green originally and second my dyed green. Time alone will tell but the dyed green will have to fade a LOT.

I do like them both and respect the fact that one is natural colour, just showing the difference.


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## MikeinWaunakee (Jan 2, 2017)

To Jones2016:

You did not go overboard on your experiment, I plan to do the same type of designed experiments on 1/16" thick veneer that I resaw myself. Right now, I am using Procion MX Medium Blue dye (a professional, fiber reactive dye that is amazingly inexpensive) at full concentration in a heated bath and testing a few species (maple, sycamore and poplar). I want the dye to penetrate evenly throughout the wood (1/32" in from both sides), but at a temp of 140 F I saw minimal penetration after three days. I just raised the temp to 185 F and if this doesn't show much better results after three days, I will try another dye (Tulip), which is not a fiber reactive dye but seems to work for Paul - perhaps it penetrates better? If I find that Tulip doesn't work for me, then I may have to resort to vacuum infusion, which is what a few of the experts say is what is going to be required to get full penetration.

I recently built a chevalet de marqueterie (18th century French marquetry sawing device that you sit on and once adjusted, the blade remains perfectly perpendicular to the veneer packet at all times), and I am now starting the process of building up a good supply of 1/16" thick veneer, both natural domestics and exotics as well as dyed.


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## Jones2016 (Dec 13, 2016)

Mike,

Thanks! I have done about 40-50 colors with the multiple dilutions. I have found that if I tried to scale up the volume vs. surface area of the hole punch samples I used (in the ependorf tubes), that the calculated volume was rediculous :-/

I experimented with 2 vs. 4 cups of solution in a vacuum food storage bag system using the sous-vide to maintain water bath at 150-and am usually using 3 cups. Seems to be more-or less consistent with the dilution experiment. All this to try to do better than random at being able to reproduce different color veneer.

I did get full-penetration on 1/42 inch maple (hard) at 3 days in earliest trials-but can't get it as cheaply as I can get the poplar, so I've gone with poplar.

I just purchased 1/16 Aluminum Sheet 6061-T6 0.063" (t) x 18" x 12" from Buymetal.com to use as heated cauls to try to better flatten & dry veneer. Shipwright has an awesome press he made to do this thoguh I don't have the space to really do that. I hope that I can do a modified process similar to that demonstrated in the video by Jack Bench Woodworking: 




I have had some splitting of the veneer as it dries using standard blotting & waiting…

My wife doesn't know that our oven will soon become a blast furnace… I have some veneer that I otherwise need to flatten before I can use it.

This has turned in to one of my more expensive hobbies. I have yet to actually make anything :-/ but have a completed vacuum hold-down table similar to that devised by Vincent Doan from AmazonCanvas (AWESOME PROGRAM, awesome customer service) so I am ready to proceed.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

One of the things I found in getting penetration is that concentration control is important. If you use too high a concentration the veneer will get too dark before it is fully penetrated. A perfectly diluted solution will reach desired colour within usually the first day but won't darken appreciably regardless of how long you leave the veneer in the bath.
These are done with a low concentration of Rit. 1/16" thickness, full and even penetration, five days blue, six days purple.


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## MikeinWaunakee (Jan 2, 2017)

I have now completed some full factorial experiments with dyeing in a heated bath, using two different brands of dye (Tulip and Procion MX, which is a fiber reactive dye) and 1/16" thick samples of poplar, sycamore and maple. I have heated them up to 100 Deg F, 140 deg F and 185 deg F for one, two and three days, and have had no penetration at all in any test. I used the dye concentrations recommended by both Tulip and Jacquard, the supplier of Procion MX. The surface looks fine, but when you section the sample, you can see that there is no penetration.

Applying vacuum (maybe followed by the addition of pressure, if needed) is my next step. I'm not sure that I can simply immerse the wood in a dye bath before applying vacuum, or if I need to apply vacuum to the wood alone, followed by allowing the dye solution into the evacuated chamber, and then release of the vacuum. I've seen the infusion videos with thick pen blanks being immersed in "cactus juice" (brand name) before applying the vacuum, but I don't know what the chemical kinetics are with a water-based dye bath; in other words, will the vapor pressure of the water be such that, during the time the vacuum is applied, much of the water in the dye bath will turn to vapor and be sucked through the vacuum pump? If so, then I will need to first evacuate the chamber with just the wood, then introduce the dye solution to the chamber, and shortly after that release the vacuum to allow atmospheric pressure to push the dye into the pores of the wood. At that point, it wouldn't be too difficult to apply additional pressure as well, using a paint pot as a pressure reservoir. My understanding is that vacuum/pressure/vacuum (to remove excess preservative) is the process used to pressure treat wood, along with the addition of heat. Since I am only looking to penetrate 1/32" (i.e., halfway in from both sides of a 1/16" thick veneer), I would hope to avoid the elevated temperatures, and maybe also the addition of pressure above atmospheric.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

My 1/16" poplar is penetrating fully and evenly in just the hot bath. Perhaps you just aren't waiting long enough. As I said in my post above, those two colours took five and six days. I cut sample pieces each day after the first couple and after three days mine were not very deeply penetrated either.
As long as you don't use too high a concentration you can leave them in as long as it takes. Remember that the manufacturers recommendations are for textiles, not wood. You need to experiment to get the concentrations that work.
This is the best photo I have showing penetration.


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