# Just WHO is buying all of these expensive woodworking jigs, fixtures, and tools?



## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

I just came back from Woodcraft today and it has set me to wondering. Just WHO is buying all of these expensive woodworking jigs, fixtures, and tools? Over the years I have noticed the people in these woodworking specialty places (we have a number of them around here) seem to be hobbyists and not people making a living from woodworking. And the stuff in these stores is EXPENSIVE!

Now I'm not against buying good tools. I am against buying some jig or fixture I can easily make. I suppose this is the reason Stumpy Nubs is so popular around here and ShopNotes magazine seems to be doing a good business. I can understand someone who is making a living in woodworking buying this stuff as to him it makes economic sense to use his time on making money. But there seems to be a scad of hobbyists that will buy a jig for $75 or $120 or more when they could easily make the equivalent out of scrap lumber and some inexpensive hardware. The same holds for some tools like a wooden mallet or a carver's mallet, or clamps like luthier's clamps.

Anyway, I am curious. What are your thoughts?

Planeman


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## stonedlion (Jan 12, 2011)

I've wondered about that too. I think it may fall under the category of hobbyists thinking that the $150 thing-a-majig will magically make them better woodworkers.


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## dkirtley (Mar 11, 2010)

Never underestimate the power of marketing. Then the extension of the marketing that is long *completely unbiased* <nudge> endorsements by the personalities whether on video or magazines.

Nobody gets to make any money off of you if you make it yourself. Why on earth would they encourage that?


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## Harry_Ch (Jan 27, 2011)

Just like the guy that goes for the newest gadget, I consider them "Must Have". They may use them once or twice, but does that really improve their skills? Hard to say for sure, but they do look pretty gathering dust and rust.


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## jgreiner (Oct 23, 2010)

I will admit, I was guilty of that when I first got into woodworking .. got a fancy dovetail jig because I thought I had to have it. I think I've used it once.


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## KenBry (Sep 13, 2011)

Heck, the people in this forum have convinced me that i have to buy, powermatic, festool and lie nielson so why not get the best jigs too? ;-p


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

You are correct. It is hobbiest buyers who make a majority of 
jig sales viable. Many pros don't mess around with stretching machine
capacity in a big way - they upgrade the machine and move forward.
The time saved on profitable jobs makes this approach more feasible
for pros.

Commercially made luthier clamps are a pretty good value and
making equal ones yourself is doable but a hassle. Most shop-made
copies will be adequate but inferior to Klemmsia clamps.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

I never heard of a "Klemmsia clamp". I had to do a search on it. Looking at one at Highland Hardware (http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/klemmsiacam-actionclamp7-34.aspx) I can say mine are every bit as good, complete with a steel bar, steel pins in the wood to take the racking force, leather pads, and maple for wood - and curly maple at that! I made eight of them and they were easy to do. You guys take a look at that Klemmsia clamp. Don't you think you could knock those out?

Planeman


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

I agree, and I work at one of these places as an instructor. I have to say I can teach a lot of things in woodworking, but I've not mastered the art of teaching someone how to design a piece.

I think the ones buying all these jigs are the ones that build strictly from plans. I have never stuck to any plans that I have ever bought. And I rarely buy a jig I could build.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

In some trades this is typical, the hobbyist keeps a lot of the companies in business. In photography the standard joke was that Hasselblads were mostly sold to doctors and lawyers than to professional photographers, they mostly used a workhorse like the Mamiyas. In the digital era, not even doctors or lawyers are willing to pony up $30,000 for a digital back.

Woodworking is no different, heck I am even willing to bet that most jigs are not even used in a professional shop. I only have two, a circle maker for the bandsaw and a taper jig. I am thinking of building a cross cut sled, but that is it. Ok, well I might even build a router jig like stumpy nubs build, there are some very good uses for a horizontal router.

As for tools I have to disagree with you, it is easier and cheaper to buy an "expensive" tool loke a LN plane that will work perfectly out of the box than to fight a cheap tool to make it work as it should and that you will have to discard after a few uses.


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## jgreiner (Oct 23, 2010)

I'd love to see the Kelmmsia clamps you've made, those look neat I'd sure like to see how to make them.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Try the Klemmsias and be sure before making declarations. I have
made cam clamps from domestic hardwoods and they have not
held up the way the hornbeam ones do.


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## NANeanderthal (Jun 2, 2011)

Expensive is a subjective term, some will find a $500 Lie-Nielsen expensive, the guy that is waiting on his $11,000 Karl Holtey to be delvered doesn't. I don't think its a money question but a build vs buy question. To me it is, would i enjoy making it, do I have the time make it. My minutes are a whole more valuble to me than my dollars. But then again i only use hand tools and a bench hook is my only jig. I did buy thr mallet with the green coating, that green stuff is the bees knees if you hand chop mortises.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I don't know about you but I'm 62. I still have to work almost 50 hours a week and it sure doesn't look like I'll be retiring anytime soon. I only have the weekends to do my woodworking so my time is very valuable to me. At the plant I run the maintenance and engineering and work on the machinery. My time is valuable there and my pay is good. However, to me my weekend time is no less valuable to me. Yes, I enjoy what I'm doing and enjoy it but my time is still very valuable. If I spend several hours on a jig then that's several hours I can't spend on a project. There are tradeoffs that must be considered. There is no such a thing as a free lunch. Everything has a cost. Now I know how to make jigs because I've made plenty of them at work. There's nothing wrong with woodworkers buying jigs if that's what they think they have to do at any given time. After all some people love making jigs and working on their shops. I like making jigs too. However, there is a very big time constraint against many people and time is costly and precious.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## Alexandre (May 26, 2012)

Remember the mere mortal video?
Of that guy using the rake as a dovetail jig?
I wish I could try that, but my rake's pinny things (those 9 or 20 or something sharp thingies) are too short..


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## AndyDuframe (Jul 27, 2008)

Buying expensive hobby gadgets oddly makes you feel like you've become an expert at a craft that you've never really mastered (and probably never will for one reason or another). For a lot of people, that sense of satisfaction, that feeling of accomplishment that can be had just by plopping down a credit card is nearly priceless-which makes the "pro-consumer" market one of the most profitible in the world.


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

I'm with you, Charles. I have practically no wood working time due to working my paying job, and currently painting one of my cars (prep work is taking forever at one day a week, one man working on it). Once that is done, it's woodworking time for sure. But that is a dry spell of about 6 months.

I have the Rockler dovetail jig, used once, and the mini dovetail jig…still in the box. Just don't have the time, yet. I went into Rockler yesterday to look at the Pen Press/Drilling Jig and it's $100. I won't spend that, I can make one from what I have in less time than it takes to earn that much money, so when I get to it, I'll build one. It'll have ACME threads instead of the wimpy threads in that pen press. Just need some time…


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

Charles took the words out of my keyboard.
The guy that can afford to buy jigs is too busy making that money to invest the time in making them.
Then there's guys like me, too dumb to figure out how to make some jig.


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## LeeBarker (Aug 6, 2010)

aka Charles makes an articulate point about time. Well said.

There's another aspect of time which feeds into this buying behavior, which we have been looking at in isolation (that is, the store, the gizmo, the credit card).

Look at the headline articles in any consumer woodworking magazine and the promise of quick gratification is there.

"Make this picture frame and learn how to make perfect miters every time!"

"A beautiful garden gazebo in one weekend!"

And then inside:

"Rout details like a pro!"

So the subscript here is that, with a little help, the reader can get real good real fast. Walk into a woodworker's store with that, and you're far more likely to walk out with a fancy fixture that appears to make that promise even closer to being fulfilled.

Kindly,

Lee


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Most of the jigs I use are shop-made, but I do have a couple of commercial jigs that get fairly regular use (tenon jig, box joint jig, etc.).

Jigs that I can knock out myself in a few minutes make sense. The more complex stuff I'm willing to purchase. It's that putting a vaule on my time thing!

-Gerry


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I'm the guy wishing I could buy them, but I doubt I would anyhow.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

I don't know about expensive jigs, but sometimes I buy vs make. A lot of it for me, as a newbie, is a confidence thing. Even though they are "easy" to make, I bought a tapering jig. It was 15$ and works perfectly. I probably could have made one for less, but it would have taken me a while as I don't really understand the principles of tapering until I used this jig. I haven't made a cross cut sled yet because I am not totally confident I can get it perfectly square. I will say if there was one commercially available for under 50$ (that did miters as well) I would probably buy it. I'm working on it though.

I do know form a lot of other facets in life that 99% of products over promise and under deliver. I would never consider buying any of the "fad" jigs Lee alludes to that make promises of turning anyone into a pro.

I will say that a pocket hole jig comes close to that promise though. I have always struggled to the point of giving up making face frames. I could never get it right with half laps or dowels. 15 minutes with a pocket hole jig and I had an absolutely perfect face frame on my very first attempt.


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## casual1carpenter (Aug 16, 2011)

I think that I would have to follow Charles and his line of logic. I place a higher value on my shop time and my working for a living time. Also note my nick, casual, I work in steel construction and understand tolerances but I often have trouble meeting them in my woodworking.

Most of us have seen 'the woodwright's shop' and or similar shows where they do fantastic projects with 300 to 400 year old tooling and techniques. Me, I need all the help that I can get to achieve and maintain the tolerances that I desire. No one else might notice the smaller errors in a project but knowing they are there and where they are I do notice them, and they bother me.

Perhaps the one bad aspect of quality tooling, jigs and fixtures, is that by increasing the production and accuracy of making parts they might also lull one into a lower attention to detail. If the operator malfunctions so does the best equiptment so there is still a learning curve.


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## tyskkvinna (Mar 23, 2010)

I generally prefer to buy over make. I CAN make - and certainly I sometimes do make (right now I am building my own drum sander, because I think the price for such a thing is a little out there, for what it does, for what I need) - but I barely have enough time to do the work I already do. I get guys come through my shop all the time who give me flak - "why did you BUY that? I could make one in an hour".

Maybe I should just make a list of all the things I can otherwise do in an hour and hang it up in my shop.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Most of wwing "luxuries" come as gifts. My best friend is a woodworker, and a very generous gift giver….for several years he gave me wwing jigs, blades, miter gauges, etc., as gifts. Otherwise, I wouldn't normally buy them. Let's see….I've got a Wixey angle gauge (very handy), Dubby taper sled, Wixey digital fence readout (neat, but not necessary), a GRrripper (great to have!), a DC remote (love it), Forrest WWII, small parts holder, precision squares, tenoning jig, and digital bevel gauge (among other things). I make my out router tables, workbench, several mobile bases, bit and blade racks.

Knowing what I know now, I'd spend money on a digital angle gauge for a TS, the GRrripper, a good blade (Forrrest or other)...I love the DC remote, but wouldn't feel guilty spending the money when I just throw the switch on.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

Move over! We ALL want to become best friends with your woodworking best friend!

Planeman


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## Fuzzy (Jun 25, 2007)

Think FISHING !!! MOST fishing lures don't need to catch fish to be effective from the manufacturer's perspective … they only need to catch fishermen. Marketing sells … hype sells … "you will be a better #### if you only had our jig" sells.

If you're fortunate enough to have a small, but professional furniture or cabinet shop nearby … ask for a quick tour … and notice how many of these type of jigs you see. The very fact that you often read "I bought an XYZ jig several years ago, and, while it works … it sits on the shelf, unused" should tell you something about buying fancy commercial jigs.

I don't for a second mind or regret seeing my $5.00 box joint jigs hanging on the wall … but it would drive me nuts to see some $200.00 box joint jig that I bought on an impulse hanging there.


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## jpike (Jun 15, 2012)

We're well-trained consumers and respond to marketing like Pavlov's dog. Those of us with disposable incomes and access to credit have to spend/charge it somewhere, no? The best statement of this economic mindset that I've ever seen was on the bumper of a humongous RV. It read: "We are spending our children's inheritance."

C'est la vie


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

After reading all the responses, I realize we are not all talking about the same thing. In general, a jig or fixzture is a special purpose device designed for a specific purpose. A dovetail jig is certainly a jig, but it is considered a "universal" jig, in that it can be setup to handle different situations. The jigs that I and others make in our shops, are designed for a special purpose and that purpose alone. Although it can be reused, it doesn't lend itself to modification for a different purpose. I don't think anyone would consider a dovetail jig or a pocket hole jig as a waste of money. Most jigs we make at home are necessary because it is specific only to the particular job at hand. An item like a "bench cookie", is not a jig. It is a gimmic someone thought up to separate money from gullible people. A scrap piece of wood or a hockey puck would serve the same purpose.
It's the same with cooking. More and more, our food supply is going from the raw state to prepared. That all started with TV dinners. No one seems to have enough time to do traditional things. We just have to make the time. I am now retired, but even when I was fully employed, I found the time to cook, do woodworking, play with my kids. I guess it's a matter of priority; what is most important to you.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A fixture is a work-holding or support device used in the manufacturing industry. What makes a fixture unique is that each one is built to fit a particular part or shape. The main purpose of a fixture is to locate and in some cases hold a workpiece during either a machining operation or some other industrial process.[1] A jig differs from a fixture in that it guides the tool to its correct position in addition to locating and supporting the workpiece.[1][2]

The primary purposes of jigs and fixtures is to:[1]

Reduce the cost of production 
Maintain consistent quality 
Maximize efficiency 
Enable a variety of parts to be made to correct specifications 
Reduce operator errors 
Types of Fixtures: General Purpose - They are usually relatively inexpensive and can be used to hold a variety and range of sizes of workpieces (examples: Vices, chucks, split collets).

Special Purpose - They are designed and built to hold a particular workpiece for a specific operation on a specific machine or process.


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

I don't count dovetail jigs as a fancy jig… Especially since I am not smart enough to figure out how to make one of my own that would be worth using…

But for the most part, my store bought jigs are things I highly doubt would be worth a hoot accuracy wise if I had made them. Those are…

#1. Dovetail jig.
#2. Doweling Jig.
#3. Pocket Hole Jig.

I have a store bought jig, but it was given to me, and that is the Rockler router insert jig. A friend had it, and passed it to me when we was done with it…

The rest of my jigs tend to be one off jobs that are cobbled together quick and dirty to just do a one or two off sort of job, then they get stashed in a corner somehwere…

True multi use jigs tend to get decent hardware, star knobs and the like…


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## Stillnew (Jun 17, 2012)

Some people (okay-me!) get as much enjoyment from shopping for fine tools and setting them up as they do from using them. Building a quality workshop is fun! I make some jigs and buy others. The great joy of woodworking is that it lets each of us do our own thing.


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## Bill729 (Dec 18, 2009)

I enjoyed reading everyone's posts.

I am worried that I may have been marketed into thinking I may need a routing plane (~$185, I think).

Have any of you handy folks tried to build your own? A shoulder plane would be nice too-I think I might be able to build a wooden version one of those some year… : )

I enjoyed that this thread made me think. I thought I was the only one who didn't have bench cookies! I saw someone buy a bench cookie holder and/or dispenser the other day!

Bill Whig


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## wncguy (Jan 26, 2012)

As a newbie, I am in awe of some of the jigs & fixtures that are shown here, but I don't have the equipment to make some of them (chicken or egg) and frankly I think I need experience on making some things that will interest me. Then expand to building my own items I need. 
If a famous painter did not make their own canvas, brushes, paint or easel - does that diminish their work?


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## SPHinTampa (Apr 23, 2008)

Guilty … I have several of the more expensive jigs. I get very little time in the shop and so when I have time, I like to make the most of it and don't want to fuss with making jigs when I could be working on a project.

Expensive jigs that are totally worth it:

- I could have made a home made mortising system, but I love the accuracy I get from the Mortise Pal.
- I could have made my own sharpening system but the Wolverine turning tool sharpening jigs let me get into turning because sharpening completely intimidated me
- The Incra system … i use it all the time for both decorative and utility joints
- The Kreg K2 pocket hole jig … use it on every cabinet making project and for making quick prototypes

I am also guilty of buying a few dust collectors:
- Rockler circle/ellipse jig … cant even remember why I bought it
- Milescraft Spiral Cutter … not sure what it does
- Lee Valley Variable Angle burnisher … I finally learned to tilt my burnisher 5 degrees down without help

I do make my own jigs often, but I find the commercial jigs are much easier to use for tasks that require a lot of accuracy (i.e. joinery).


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

It's the age old question - "Fish or cut bait?"


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## jgreiner (Oct 23, 2010)

I was thinking about this one today when I was in my shop. As we know time is money, it always is no matter who you are. Some people have more time than money, others have more money than time. Jigs also have a hardware cost that often is forgotten about, so I decided to do a little experiment.

I wanted to compare the cost of the Incra I-Box to Stumpy Nubs' Box joint jig. 
I do not own the plans, so some of this is just rough guesstimate based on the pictures. 
Plans: $10
2ft T-Track: $15
20" Drawer Slides: $19
1/2''x2ft threaded rod: $5
Hinges: $1
Plywood: $20
MDF: $15
Misc Hardware: $3
Aluminum Bar: $10

Material Cost: $98
Since I don't have the plans, I can't make exact cost estimate but I think it's most likely pretty close:

Incra IBOX price: $170

So the time difference is 72$
Say it takes you 3 hours .. that's $24 not to bad
Say it takes you a weekend (14 hours) .. that's 5.14 an hour ..

It really all depends on how much money/time someone has really .. but after looking at it like this, I feel less guilty about some of the jigs I've bought 

-jeremy


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## tyskkvinna (Mar 23, 2010)

Well, a lot of times jigs are made up out of scraps and bits and pieces you already had - so it may not be a completely fair assessment to price it all out. (Or at least, if I had to buy all new components to build a jig I'd just buy the thing, for sure.)


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## jgreiner (Oct 23, 2010)

I agree, a lot of times they are, .. you could most likely drop the plywood and mdf costs from the jig .. but a lot of that depends if you have the right sized scraps laying around. (It's always my luck that when I need a small scrap of plywood .. the scrap pieces I have are an inch too short!).

At the same time, those scraps do have a value, you can use them in other projects or who knows what else you paid for the entire sheet (I didn't use full sheet prices) .. just because you have half left over from a project doesn't mean that scrap doesn't have a value.

Maybe I'm looking at it too much from a business accountant view where everything has a cost and a value, who knows.

-jeremy


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## japanesewoodworker (Jan 16, 2010)

Guilty as "charged" !
I am going to post my "un-boxing" of a Festool Multi-Function-Table, and a plunge cut saw.

The reason I made "this" investment" was because:

1) I have been down the road of the 10" contractors' saw….been there done that….
2) I am sick-n-tired of the poor Made in China (MIC) quality….
3) I already have the Festool Sander, Dust Collection, and Li Ion brush-less drill
4) Because 'my-soul' might be satisfied….
5)  I have many "honey-could you this with wood…" (yes, Dear…sigh…) How much do you want to spend ?
6) Contractors' poor quality work at neighbour's home (Senior Citizen…Ouch !)
7) you fill in the blank here !


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## ITnerd (Apr 14, 2011)

You know, I wanted to come up with an eloquent defense of my position. Something about Time is Money, and we all solve for this equation differently, depending on where we are with life, family, age, career etc.

Simply put - I am the guy buying those gadgets. If it says Incra, my heart beats fast. Bridge City Kerf or Tenon Maker? Heart a-flutter. Kreg? Mine. Mailing lists for Jessum, Woodpecker, Grizzly, Woodmaster, Brese planes - CHECK.

I'm trying to find a place to hide a MultiRouter now, to which I will bolt an FMT Pro. It will have 2 extra linear slides (I knew they would come in handy - thanks Ebay!), a quarter mile of Incra Track on it, and 14 stops in various axes and positions. Yes, this will render both machines completely incapable of making anything. No, I do not care.

Now send me your damn bench cookies, so I can balance this on something.

Tongue firmly in cheek,


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

We build most jigs and buy some others. Depends much on valid points made by Jeremy. If I save 15.00 making the jig that will take me 3 or 4 hours to build, then I think it through. Most jigs I find more convenient to build, others are just more economical and convenient to buy.


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## JarodMorris (Nov 24, 2011)

An old woodworker went to dinner at his wife's friend's house. The woodworker's wife said it would be a nice gesture to make something for the host in his shop so the old woodworker set out making an ornate picture frame for his wife's friend. When he arrived the host took the picture frame and was awestruck by its beauty. She said, "This picture frame is wonderful! Your tools must be incredible!" The old woodworker didn't say much as dinner went on. When the dinner was finished, he and his wife were leaving. The old woodworker turned to the host and said, "Ma'am, that dinner was wonderful. Your stove must be incredible."


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## japanesewoodworker (Jan 16, 2010)

Some "professional" contractors in my area DO NOT know that "square" and "plumb" are NOT the same.

You should see the poor workmanship. (maybe I am just getting as -OLD- as my father…he is OVER 89… and trying to shoot his age in golf….woodworking is MY golf…)


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## redryder (Nov 28, 2009)

"Your stove must be incredible" I get IT….......

Seems like less stress to be ticked off at a store for selling you some worthless jig than being ticked off at yourself for making the same worthless jig…...................


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## wbrisett (Dec 21, 2011)

I've bought a few and made a few, and received a few jigs. For me it's all about time. As Charles (helluvawreck) points out working full time+, my shop hours tend to be limited. Usually I'm trying to knock out a project and that's when I realize I need some jig to finish. When this happens, I usually try to determine if it's worth it to me to make my own jig or buy one. Sometimes I'll make something that works one or two times, but not something you would print in ShopNotes. 

My wife and daughter have bought me a few jigs that I probably wouldn't have purchased, but once I tried them I thought, how clever (Kreg's crown moulding jig and milescraft spiral design kit). The problem is most jigs serve a single purpose and that's where the time vs. money comes into play. I work hard, and have a little discretionary income, and consider woodworking my hobby. I'm willing to spend a few dollars on my hobby. In fact, that's what it's all about in my opinion.

So, to answer the original question, I guess I'm one of the guys who might buy some of those jigs (my wife and daughter will for sure as gifts) if I don't want to spend all day in the shop building them.

Wayne


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Some of the "jigs" mentioned are really more like tools.


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## DamnYankee (May 21, 2011)

I am mixed. Some I buy some I make. Whether I make or buy is frequently driven by several factors: cost of buying verses time & difficulty of making; availability of jig (I don't live close to a woodworking specialty store so I either need to order on line or drive an hour to get it); availability of parts such as knobs, tracks, etc (If I don't have it I can't use it to make a jig); anticipated repeated use (I might buy one if I think I will use it alot); required tolerances (if I don't think I can build the jig to meet the tolerances I perceive it needs I might buy a jig).

Over the years of my woodworking adventures I've gotten increasingly confident in making jigs, and better understand the principles in making one.


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## Domer (Mar 8, 2009)

Well a here is contrary opinion. I have bought some relatively expensive jigs and tools. Most of the time I have been happy with them.

I have bought a lot of inexpensive tools and later upgraded to better tools. It would have been a lot less expensive to buy the better tools first.

I would rather spend time making things and not spending time making jigs. And if you value your time at anything, Lots of times it makes more economic sense to spend the money on tools and jigs rather than spend the time making a jig which often times is more difficult to make work.

My 2 cents worth.

Domer


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

When I was younger, I used to work on my cars all the time. Spinning wrenches was fun. Why pay a shop to do the work? That's hundreds saved.

Now, I think to myself, "Do I really want to spend the time doing this or enjoying my weekend?"

I think the same can be applied here with jigs (as some of you have already said). I don't really buy jigs only because I build jigs for the projects I'm working on and they rarely see any use after that (yeah, I know some of you think that's crazy).

JarodMorris's story has been told in photography as well (something else I spend a lot of time doing). Someone will look at a picture and say, "Wow! That is a great picture! You must have a nice camera" or, even more annoyingly, "You must be really good with Photoshop."


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## mjfnh (May 8, 2012)

I don't know, I went to Woodcraft and spent $20 on one of those aluminum leg tapering jigs for my table saw. I could have made it for $5 or maybe $10 at the most…but it was $20 bucks, aluminum, and easy to change adjustment and go right back to a setting. I went right home and made tapered table legs. Not sure what that makes me?


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## Brohymn62 (Mar 23, 2012)

I can't afford expensive jigs… althought I did drop $50 for a dovetailing jig on CL. Which i think is the only jig I've ever purchased. Everything else seems perfectly within grasp of the machines in my shop. I've even come across some plans for a stroke sander that I might be tackling soon… although at that point… you've crossed the line into shop made machines… a while new arena!

Really like the idea of the home made clamps… they are expensive too… might try my hand at some of those luthier clamps


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

That's two requests for the luthier's clamps. I'll replace the batteries in my digital camera, take some photos of my clamps, and sketch up a drawing and some instructions. I'll have all of this posted here in a couple of days.

Planeman


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## tommyt654 (Dec 16, 2008)

Whats that old sayin,A fool and his money are soon departed, I buy most of my tools and accessories off CL as most folks either have no need later for it or simply get rid of stuff due to a death or sickness in the family, It has saved me a lot of money over the yrs,just this weekend spent $160 and got a like new RBI 220 VS Scroll SAW with a 16 piece Fortner bit set and 8 Bessey 8 inch clamps at 2 yards sales, Why bother with the box stores when you can buy online cheaper and get the same product as well as yard sales, signed Tommy the tightwad


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

A fool and his money are soon departed

*A fool and his money are soon parted* There. Fixed it for you.

How do you feel about jigs though (*tommyt654*)? I mean, most of us agree with you on tools as you can see a lot of us post finds on craigslist, flea markets, and ebay. I think jigs are a little different though as most don't carry 500-1500 price tags like tools.

So, if you're given the option of a 20-50 dollar jig or even a higher-priced 100-200 dollar one, do you really watch craigslist or the similar sites to find a used one? I wouldn't even bother personally. They so rarely come up that you're better off either just building it or buying it new.


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## Bill729 (Dec 18, 2009)

Planeman40 wrote:
I never heard of a "Klemmsia clamp". I had to do a search on it. Looking at one at Highland Hardware (http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/klemmsiacam-actionclamp7-34.aspx) I can say mine are every bit as good, complete with a steel bar, steel pins in the wood to take the racking force, leather pads, and maple for wood - and curly maple at that! I made eight of them and they were easy to do. You guys take a look at that Klemmsia clamp. Don't you think you could knock those out?

Planeman
----------------

In case anyone is interested, this "Cam Clamp" is Chapter 15 in the book "Tool-Making Projects for Joinery and Woodworking", by Steve A. Olesin, Cambium Press, 2005. Containing numerous accessible and useful projects, I find it a delightful little book. 'Course, I enjoy making tools as much as "stuff.

Bill Whig


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

Who buys it? People who have lots of money or credit cards with a high limit. I have bought some things at WC but no power tools or accessories. When my ship comes in, I'll probably be at the airport!


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## JarodMorris (Nov 24, 2011)

Knothead - when your ship comes in, don't you think you should got to the docks? lol


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

Knothead - when your ship comes in, don't you think you should got to the docks? lol - *Jarod*

I think that was his point.

Now, to find that jig that makes getting beer to my hand easier… c'mon 5 o'clock.


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## JarodMorris (Nov 24, 2011)

Doss, that might have been his point, except he said "When my ship comes in, I'll probably be at the airport!" My poor attempt at humor.


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

No, I was saying that "when his ship comes in, he'll be at the airport" *was* his point.

As in, when it finally does arrive, he'll still be in the wrong place.

Are we starting to get confused yet?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

ok, close enough to 5 o'clock


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## ChrisFranklin (May 28, 2012)

I enjoy making tools and then using them more than anything, I think. That's the greatest feeling of accomplishment to me. Putting some thought and care into a tool that will then multiply that thought and care over a dozen different projects. I sometimes think I only do woodworking so I can have an excuse to make the jigs.

When I worked in a little cabinet shop many many moons ago, a taper jig was a piece of plywood slightly larger than the table leg or whatever was to be tapered, with a tapered notch cut in it freehand on the tablesaw. Took 3 minutes to lay it out and another minute to make. There were a bunch of these things standing in the corner; you grabbed whichever one looked like it would be about right, or you made another. The first time I saw a $10 adjustable one, it seemed to me like a silly tarted-up bit of froufrou. So these things are relative.


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## JarodMorris (Nov 24, 2011)

Ha Doss! I was taking it as when his ship comes in he'll be at the airport headed off to some great place with loads of cash from his ship coming in. Amazing how different perspectives see things so differently.


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## sicilian (Jan 31, 2010)

I also agree with everyone here..These company's that make these jigs are losing touch with the hobbyist
the prices are unforgivable and they seem to have lost touch considering today's economy!!!


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

My luck is the ship will sink on its way to the dock. The plane crashed into it.

ChrisFranklin, could you sketch or show how this is done, please? Not real clear what you are describing. Thanks.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

Ships CAN come in.

Last October I won a 12 inch $4,000 Hammer K3 sliding table table saw from Hammer Woodworking, complete with free shipping, in their drawing. (http://www.hammerusa.com/us-us/products/table-saws/table-saw-k3-winner-48x48.html. Its a fantastic saw!

I had never heard of Hammer Woodworking until I saw a brief mention here in a post that Hammer was having a drawing for one of their saws. I followed the link given to the Hammer signup page on the Internet, quickly signed up, and promptly forgot about it. When I received a call a few months later from the president of Hammer USA informing me I had won the saw, I was confused. I had forgotten about signing up and it took me a few minutes to recall doing it. After he hung up, I had to find the Hammer website to see what it was I had won.

Planeman


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

This thread inspired me to take a break form project and start making some jigs. I started on a cross cut sled which, if comes out well, will be awesome. I didn't have any materials as scrap, so this is going to end up costing me about 50$. Money well spent if I get it right.

I posted a blog about it and will post finished pictures when I am done

http://lumberjocks.com/lumberjoe/blog/30606


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## Kelby (Oct 19, 2011)

I get about 15-20 hours per week in the shop, as a hobbyist. I could spend all of those hours for many years making jigs, cam clamps, shop cabinets, workbenches, assembly tables, downdraft tables, and so on and so on.

But I also have a list of projects a mile long, and I'll never be able to finish everything I want to do. I can either save money making jigs or free up time to make the projects that really interest me.

I still build many of my own jigs, fixtures, tools, cabinets, etc. But I don't mind spending money on a good tool or jig.

Some people spend tens of thousands of dollars on boats, hot rods, mountain bikes, golf, or whatever other hobby they have. I'm not interested in any of those things. Even with some expensive jigs and tools, this is a relatively cheap hobby.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Kelby-Well said! My wife's hobby is sewing and quilting. Her sewing machines (she has three) cost more than the all the tools in my shop combined.

-Gerry


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

My wife has two sewing machines. A fancy one that does quilting/embroidery and general sewing, and a surger. Each machine separately costs* 4 times *the amount I paid for my table saw. Her titanium rotary cutting wheels cost more than a lot of my router bits. Her self healing cutting mats are 70$ a pop, and we won't even talk about what her Gingher scissor collection is worth. Also in many cases fabric is a lot more expensive than wood, thread is more expensive than glue, pins are more expensive than brads.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Here's an opportunity ;-)) http://www.woodpeck.com/ottclampingcauls.html


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

Hahaha! That's actually not a bad idea. I still have a lot of metal working tools. Time to go to my metal dealer and pick through the off cuts. I could probably make those for about 15$ a pair


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## DamnYankee (May 21, 2011)

Some people have time, some people have money. Those with time but little money will place a high value their money. Those with money but little time will place a higer value on their time.

In my personal situation I am probably closer to the middle - I have some money, not a lot, and I have some time, again not a lot. If I can buy a jig "cheaper"/"better" than I could (cheaper meaning lower "cost" in terms of dollars, time, and effort) then I will likely buy the jig. If the jig "costs" more than I have utility for then I will likely make the jig. There have been several cases where after I priced out the "cost" of parts to make a jig (dollars, plus time to get parts - sometime you need to order t-track or other parts) it was MUCH more "costly" to make that to buy. A jig I have - a thin cut jig - is a case in point. I bought it for labout $10 (maybe less), I had plans on how to make one, and while I had the major materials (wood) on hand, getting the roller, knobs, etc actually came out close to if not over the $10 for the purchased jig. Through in the time spent making it, it was finacially cheaper to buy. In another direction was a taper jig, made it out of scarps in about 5-10 minutes, no issue.

IF jig makers were really out of touch with the hobbiest/professional, et al, then they wouldn't be making money selling these jigs.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

I definitely fall into the more money than time equation, however when I look at reviews of some of the expensive jigs, they are crap. If I am going to spend money on something, I want it to work better than I can make something for. When all is said and done, my cross cut sled will end up costing me over 100$ I don't think I could buy one as nice though (as long as I can pull it off).


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## bluekingfisher (Mar 30, 2010)

I blame Norm. I don't know how many jigs and what not I have bought over the years and never really used.

Some guys spend their hard earned on, fast cars, some on vintage motor bikes, some on fishing and hunting. I guess it just all comes down to what tickles your fancy I guess, after all you can't take it with you?


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## bush (Feb 8, 2009)

One could consider a hand plane to be a jig for a chisel. Most of us are not going to build our own planes, though some will. Woodworkers here are not easily described, a diverse crowd for sure. Craftsmanship and skills have gotten a lot of mention here as have hobbyist and professional. I think a lot of unneeded ego flexing is going on with some of these labels. What I am getting at is that while it is a fine thing to write a review concerning a tools usefulness or value it is not so useful to make judgements about the person purchasing them. Woodworking is all about taking big pieces of wood, cutting them into smaller pieces ant then putting them together to make bigger pieces again. Chainsaw or dental drill ….it is up to you.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

Not sure if this is a "fixture" but here is an example of something I would (and if it's in stock tomorrow when I pick up some T Track at woodcraft I will) buy:

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2084310/37356/kreg-ripcut-circular-saw-guide-kma2675.aspx

I struggle with ripping full sheet goods and for 35$, this looks well worth it. If not I can return it.


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## roofner (Feb 24, 2012)

Lumberjoe I have the jig it is a great jig as long as you are not ripping anything over 12". Problem is you get what I call folcrum effect the farther you get from 12 iches the more problems you will have control the last couple of inches is hard to control when the end pass the end of the board. The scale is very accurate if setup correctly. just set width on scale and its deadon.


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## TechRedneck (Jul 30, 2010)

There are Jigs I buy and jigs I would like to buy but can't justify the cost. Here is an example:










$70.00 seemed a bit much for some plastic and a couple clamps.










Here is my version. Picked up the toggle clamp and bag of knobs for less than $20. Works just great for routing end grain straight and hassle free.

I own a Jessem dowling jig which is high quality and worth the cost, should last a lifetime. I consider it a tool. Circle jigs for the bandsaw and router are shop made. All you need is to keep some scraps, screws and knobs around the shop.

I live way out in the middle of nowhere, so if I need a jig I usually make one.


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## Bill729 (Dec 18, 2009)

TechRedneck,

I'd rather have yours. Nice job on the jig! Looks handy too!

Bill Whig


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## MikeGager (Jun 15, 2009)

id say old retired guys with a lot of money are buying those expensive jigs


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Sometimes, commercial jigs are a better bet. For example, everybody and their sister have made a box joint jig, and fought with it. A few of us bought the Incra version and never looked back, for the consistency of the cuts.

Same thing with mortise tenon jig. You can build one, but why?

Someone mentioned a pocket hole jig. I love my Kreg jig for those many times I use it. On the other hand, plugs for the holes are a problem, so, years before Kreg (Craig) built their, I made one for my bandsaw. It uses common dowels, or you can make your own dowels using a jig and a bandsaw. ( https://www.instructables.com/id/Pocket-Hole-Plug-Cutting-Jig-for-the-Band-Saw/ )

Moving to my circle jig, my router dado jig and so on, the downtown versions don't compete. Then there is my really complex cork cutting jig (end smart Alex font), which I came up after my wife ended up with thousands of new corks.

Obviously, we had to scheme uses for them [such as cork bulletin boards]. Several involved cutting the corks in half. Most the methods, touted on line, were scary (e.g., here, hold this cork and cut it with this serrated blade). ( https://www.instructables.com/id/Cutting-Wine-Bottle-Corks/ )

From the foregoing, there are times for making jigs and times for buying them.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

kelly this is an old thread but still relevent.i agree im not gonna spend a precious day in the shop making a jig that wont be as precise and accurate as something made by a manufacturer.i can afford it so i will.i have and do make jigs but i prefer properly made precision jigs.


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## TarHeelz (Sep 13, 2012)

Woodworking as a "hobby" has become an upper middle income/rich man's gig. These are the same folks who take up smoking cheap cuts of meat in their $1500 Traeger on the back deck of their mcmansion.

Thousands of dollars on woodworking equipment make $150 jigs look like no big deal.

EDIT: LOL. Just realized how old this thread is.


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