# Starting an Outdoor Furniture Manufacturing Business



## dennis

How to turn from a week end worrier to a full time worrier. What a romantic idea. Good review.


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## jbertelson

I placed your review in the LJ BookList
It is under *Woodworking - General Carpentry and General Furniture*

Don't think I will every try to turn woodworking into a business, but there are a lot of folks here on LJ's that are in the woodworking business, or want to be.


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## a1Jim

thanks for the review


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## sandhill

I started thinking about selling after I started running out of room and places to put everything. LOL
Thanks Guys


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## jbertelson

Running your own business sounds fine until you do it. I still run my own business after 26 years, with two partners. But it is my occupation, and I am a professional. But there is nothing easy about it, or fun.

My wife owned a yarn shop for seven years, until her partner moved out of state. She didn't want to run the business alone, hated the employee issues, and she just couldn't see accepting another partner. That was about 10 years ago that she quit. I still hear laments from her former customers about her leaving the trade. It was a great shop. One of those places people like to go to, good service, large inventory, teaching, great atmosphere….........but at a price, not monetary, to the owner.

Sherie has a sign on her desk to this day to remind her "The only thing more overrated than natural childbirth, is the joy of owning your own business." Looked at it prominently displayed, today, after 10 years.

Definitely something to think twice about…...............


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## sandhill

I understand where your coming from Jim, Matt also points out owning your own business is not for everyone. For every business owner that hates it I know of two that love it and could not imagine doing any thing else.
I think it has to be an individual choice, If you want to do it, Do it! if it don't work do something else but at least try or you will possibly have regrets and I think that's worse than doing it and failing.


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## jbertelson

Right on sandhill. Like I said, I run my own business. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. For me, I woudn't have it any other way. Just thinking about those that find it a burden they can't handle.

My wife, I am sure, would never trade those years in the yarn shop for anything. She learned a lot, and still till this days uses what she learned, and cherishes the friendships she gained. She teaches, not for the money, and has great respect and admiration.

I was looking at a medical site yesterday and saw a physician wondering what to do, as an employee, in an abusive situation. I wanted to shout to him, try it on your own, but didn't, for a lot of personal and professional reasons. It is much more comfortable on this hobby site, than on a professional site. New physicians are really reluctant to start up their own business.

I spent, literally, thousands of hours learning how to run a business, before we did it here in Anchorage. We have been highly successful. Medical business is much more complex than a woodworking business, for a myriad of reasons. I have two partners, and we have over 40 employees.

A lot of people will earn more money and be happier as an employee. It is hard to figure out who can make the move to ownership and be successful. Most small businesses go broke in a few years.

So there is a heavy responsibility when pushing someone to start his own business.

So I am reluctant.

If it is part time, or a side-line, not such a big deal.

Shucks, I am sure you know what I mean. Not much for absolutes in life, are there.

Thanks again for the great review, and the subsequent topic….........

Have a good one….......

Jim


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## Knothead62

Jim B. summed up why I never would have a business with employees. Even with being the only person, it's just not worth the headaches you get. Taxes (collecting and paying), liability insurance, collecting from customers, and the list goes on. If you are in a manufacturing business, add OSHA and the comparable state agency. Woodworking would also entail disposing of scrap wood, sawdust, paint and other finishes in accordance with state and federal laws. Your shop would be subject to inspection at any time the inspector called on you. I worked in sales for a custom cabinet shop for about 2-1/2 years. Paint rags, finish containers had to be disposed of in a certain way that cost so much per pound. You couldn't just throw them in the dumpster. Now, retired and loving it!


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## Oppenheim

Hi. Thanks to Sandhill on a positive review of my book! I've never written a book before, so it took months of proofing from many good folks to make it readable!

Yes, I tried to escape the bowels of corporate America by starting my own business. I, like you all, love woodworking, so I wanted to try to earn a living from it. What seemed appealling about outdoor furniture was the concept of developing my products--and a manufacturing process-that could be taught to hourly employees. With my employees building away at my products, I had time to go sell, develop new products, or even do custom projects.

For me, the biggest problem with custom woodwork is that is shackled me to my shop, which prevented me from drumming up more business. I think the biggest challenge for woodworking business owners is sales. We can all build stuff--but gaining enough customers to feed your family is a difficult thing to do. With a manufacturing business, you are allowed some time to do this once your process is in place.

Regarding employees…I only had two, and they made $8 and $10 hour, so that wasn't a big deal. I never had a problem with OSHA, and we sprayed latex instead of oil finishes, which is perfect for outdoor furniture, and keeps the fire marshall happy.

For anyone seriously considering this, please feel free to contact me with any questions. Although I don't own the bsuiness anymore, I'm still passionate about it and love to help others find success. The website for the book is www.outdoorfurniturebusiness.com. You can reach me through the "contact us" section of the site.


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## sandhill

Some business owners look at all the regulations as "Head aches" but you must consider that they are there for a reason. OSHA exists to ensure measures are in place to protect the worker. I have worked in some very unsafe environments that should not have been allowed to operate and they could not care less about the worker other then the produce. I have seen people loose eyes, fingers, and other body parts.

The regulations that are in place are for the most part are a minimum and no more then common sense but as any regulated system it gets carried away in red tape but if you just follow manufactures safety guidelines OSHA will not have a reason to bother you. As for the Taxes and record keeping one should put that into the budget to have someone that knows what there are doing take care of it.

My thoughts are: If you love woodworking and dislike the business end of it then go to work for an established shop doing the kind of woodworking you enjoy.

If you enjoy being a business person then open a business woodworking or any other type because running the business is what you will do most of and not work in the shop.


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## woodywoodpecker64

Hi All
Nice review sandhill. I actually have a small, read tiny, business and I love it. I also have a FT job that's killing me but hey gotta feed the kids and pay the house note right? I'm trying to get into the bigger stuff like pergolas, arbors and outdoor stuff and yes it is tough to find new customers. I've been reading start a business books for months now and a good one to me is, forgot the title, duh. It's about making a franchise model out of your potential business so you don't have to spend your entire life in the shop or bakery or whatever it is you like to do. When my brain wakes up I'll post the title. I'm going to get this book by Oppenheim and see where it takes me, hell I'm only 46, I figure by the time I get it going I'll be retired
One other thing I notice is a lot of the people who are in business say don't go onto business, hmmmmm. Dan


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## woodywoodpecker64

Hey no offense to Jim B intended or implied. I just wonder sometimes. I would like to go into real estate as a salesman and most all of the agents I spoke to said don't do it. Were they thinking more competition? I understand that running a good business is hard, hell I have four small kids and my own little run your household business with taxes, employee (wife), utilities, assocaition rules, mortgage, time limits, food costs, water costs, plumbing issues, repairs, landscape issues. It's just bigger challenges and they pay you instead of you pay out. I'm off to see the wizard, the wonderful wizard of Oz….....uh oh flying monkeys
gotta go
Dan


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## jbertelson

*WWP64*
I am in an unusual town medically. Most of my competitors, fellow professionals, etc, run their own business. Some do well, some not. Actually most do well. But in Alaska, we are in a very isolated, almost anomalous situation.

I was actually reading someones lament who was a psychiatrist, in the lower 48, and wanted to tell him to try it on his own (I am an OB-GYN).

............but….......I had a number of physician friends go personally bankrupt in a medical business in Alaska, that I bailed out of in time.

It is not always easy. If you go into debt, and in the medical business, the expenses are so high, that to set up and run a significant business will require debt. Failure may result in personal bankruptcy. Even if you are a corporation, the banks will require you to sign on the debt as an individual. No easy out.

I really did not want to feel I was responsible for someones financial demise.

But this is far afield from the cottage businesses most of you are talking about. There, you are mostly looking at life style, stresses, and opportunity. Not financial calamity.

So nope, you are not treading on my toes, and nope it was not about competition….....I was talking about someone thousands of miles away. But you seemed to understand that.

Business ownership is many things to many people. The possibilities are endless….........and so are the risks, the failures, the heartaches, the successes, and the fortunes. But the average guy doesn't make it.

I am not sure of the current statistics for small business, but I bet it is an average life of 3 to 4 years for a small business, with 80% ending in failure. I wonder if someone out there can tell me the real facts….......that's just a hunch on my part…....

.......again, thanks sandhill for the review and the topic, and Oppenheim thanks for chiming in. This is a forever topic, that will affect of lot of LJ's, thank you both for your efforts.

Alaska Jim


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## sandhill

Well put Jim I think you are close if not right on, the last I heard was 8 out of 10 failures in the first year but some other number with in the first 5 years., maybe half.

I have been doing something research for something else and stumbled onto an interesting possibility by accident. I found there is relatively no fear of competition & businesses will compete selling what you make "your products". 
I found out about this when hearing the buzz about how America has become a consumer nation and we are at the mercy of other nations. That got me thinking about manufacturing. I don't know if my idea will work yet but if it does it may solve to some extent the the problem of wood worker verses business owner, I guess time will tell I hope to have it in place with in the next few months and give it a go.


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## firecaster

Ok, So I bought a copy. Pretty pricey but seems like a good read. I'll let you know.


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## reggiek

Good to see some information for the folks that are thinking about starting up their own businesses.

After over 40 years of running/managing/developing business's I have always been accused to trying to dissuade someone from doing this.

I start out by asking the prospective business operator what kind of capital does he/she have available (It is exceedingly rare where a customer will pay you up front for your production)...You should figure to have at least 3 or 4 months operating reserve for a "cottage" business - this is to cover you for the lead time to get the materials (some orders can be backlogged and take longer), lead time to make the product, lead time to ship or deliver/install the item for the customer, finally if all is well (and the customer is satisfied) the bill is issued and then it can take 30 to 45 days to receive payment (some businesses are able to ask for deposits and even progress payments but that is usually for an established company with a reputation). A prospective business owner must be prepared for this and for any delays during the manufacturing process.

When I use the term reserves - I mean the costs of materials (most small companies do not have sufficient lending to buy materials on credit), the costs of payroll if you have employees, the costs of overhead (heat/power/phone/lights), Costs of any required tools not already owned, costs to ship goods…etc…etc. If you are the sole breadwinner, then you can also tack the cost of living for a few months on to the reserves requirement. This number is not static…as your business progresses (and the costs are affected by inflation..etc)...the reserve requirement can grow astronomically

As you can imagine, those costs add up fast. You will also need to be able to multitask as one order is typically not enough to sustain a business and they must constantly obtain and service new customers. This means financing more materials…possibly more labor…etc. If the business is owner operated without employees then along with the construction - the owner must engage new business, which will require costs for advertising, brochures, web presence…etc etc. all this while the owner must make the product. Believe me that this is exhausting….you really must be committed to hard work to do this…the rewards are high for the successes….but the failures are devastating…and percentage wise more prevalent


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## Oppenheim

All of reggiek's comments above are exactly why I wrote this book. You can learn first-hand what your getting into and decide if it's for you BEFORE you invest thousands trying to start-up your business. The book also provides solid advice to the person who wants to start part-time and grow their biz into a full-time operation.

You guys are right…the discussion of whether to make woodworking your career is never-ending…


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## woodywoodpecker64

Hi All
I'm pretty sure we all know what a f--ing hard job it is to run a business but that really isn't my point here. I was just curious about why people who run their own businesses seem to talk other people out of it. I don't have the answer but when I get up and running and have to spend all my time running the business and reaping all of the benefits for myself, minus taxes of course, I will try and write a book too to explain why, how and why not a business is good for you. Some people have "it" and some don't right? Somebody has to dig the ditch and someone has to supervise to make sure the ditch is right. I have a relatively high IQ and many years experience in the business world and some in my own business. Reggie K is correct in most areas. A business is out there to make money and that is all. Do it right and you win, do it wrong and you lose. Hard work will not make you successful just keep you even. You have to make good decisions about where you're business is going. 
Oh that book is the e-myth by some guy I can't remember his name. Michael Gerber
I'm pretty sure Sam, Bill, Steve, Michael and Bernie and all the others who started their own little business never dreamed that they would be as big as they are now. (Walton, Gates, Jobs and Dell & Home Depot guy) EVERYBODY starts small and the good ones grow, the not so good ones go away. It's all a matter of how smart you run your business not how many hours you put in it. I have to go, flying monkeys on the radar.
Dan
p.s I love you guys all the same GO WOOD!


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## Ken90712

I feel the same as most of you on Lumberjocks. My wife and I work full time and own our own Company called, "4yourhealth", dealing with healthy living products. Our biggest seller is the Home Air Purifiers. Once a customer tries these small powerful units for a few days, they immediately purchase one. It takes a tremendous amount of work and time to balance everything.

I have been considering starting a home based woodworking business as well. If for nothing else, to write of some of the expenses of tools and supplies. I have been making these Cutting Boards non-stop (35) and selling them for $150.00. I thought the price would scare people away, but to my surprise some are ordering 2 at a time. With this said, every time I'm making these boards now being they're becoming very repetitive. It now seems like work and not as much fun as when I made the first set of Cutting Boards.

I would hate for woodworking to become work for me is my only concern I truly have of making a business of this great hobby of ours. I always look for spare time to get out on the shop and do something even if it cleaning or thinking.

Ken


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## Kujo

I ordered Matt's book a few years ago and thoroughly enjoyed studying it, and applying it with a few Adirondack projects, which I did sell. There is a fairly large learning curve and getting the templates correct, etc. takes patience and diligence. As mentioned in the book, taking your time and really setting up everything properly is the key. I did have to adjust a number of measurements to get things right, as there are some discrepancies in between the book and bonus plans. Once everything is going, it hums along. I never really got to the point where I could make a set fast enough to be really profitable, I know it is possible. I am considering getting back into it and focusing on specialty items and finishes. Great book and this a really helpful website!


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