# Dying with Fabric Dyes



## PapaBear6 (May 21, 2018)

Folks:

I am making a curly maple and oak tissue box cover that I want to dye and I am hoping that someone can help me out here.
I have been searching and reading here on the forum about using dyes to stain wood. I read that fabric dyes (RIT) will fade over time vs. the aniline wood dyes. If the material is kept out of direct sunlight, will it still fade? Is it the UV light that makes it fade, or just the fact that it is not strong enough to withstand the test of time? (The tissue box cover is for our bathroom.)
Thanks


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

I made a guitar in 2010 using green RIT dye on curly maple. I finished it with a UV protective lacquer, and it stays out the sunlight. It's still green 8 years later.

To make the grain pop, I tinted with black RIT dye, then sanded it back prior to using the green.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

I don't understand why anyone would want to use RIT dye on their woodworking project. Between the commonly available TransFast, TransTint and Behlen products (and countless others) and the premium dyes from W.D. Lockwood, an endless array of colors can be created, so why use fabric dye? Am I missing something?


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Leather dye may work well on wood if you're
looking for something cheaper than mail order
aniline wood dyes. It's not light fast on leather
but it's pretty durable on everything else I
think. Put a UV coating on it and keep it out
of direct sunlight and I think the color would
stay in wood for decades. I have leather I 
dyed 20 years ago that hasn't faded, but I don't
put it out in sunlight. I've dyed fabric a couple of 
times with RIT and wasn't impressed. RIT is 
also a water dye so it raises grain.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> I don t understand why anyone would want to use RIT dye on their woodworking project.
> - Rich


RIT dye: 8oz = $3.00

Cheers,
Brad


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> RIT dye: 8oz = $3.00


So, that's it…lol. I spend a lot of money on the finest woods, hours of my valuable time to build a project to wow a customer and I should give a crap about a couple of dollars for the dye? It's factored into the price.

Even on craft pieces for shows I'm not going to cut corners like that. I charge good money for my craft pieces too, and I'm not going to screw around with unknowns to save pennies per piece.


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## PapaBear6 (May 21, 2018)

Thanks folks for your responses.

Knotscott: That is one beautiful guitar. Very impressive.

I was looking at fabric dye because of the availability. I can purchase it locally, whereas I have to order regular dye online. I have decided to wait and have ordered some online from Lee Valley.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

On the subject of Dyes. Anyone have a hint where I might find a grey color? In keeping with color coding new drawers a grey stain would work well for a 8 drawer cabinet I am making. Why grey? I already have metal grey cabinets with various fasteners in them. Plan on putting MORE fasteners in the new 8 drawers. I can used some grey Rustoleum paint I have but wouldn't mind having the gray show with a dye.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> On the subject of Dyes. Anyone have a hint where I might find a grey color? In keeping with color coding new drawers a grey stain would work well for a 8 drawer cabinet I am making. Why grey? I already have metal grey cabinets with various fasteners in them. Plan on putting MORE fasteners in the new 8 drawers. I can used some grey Rustoleum paint I have but wouldn t mind having the gray show with a dye.
> 
> - woodbutcherbynight


TransFast makes a grey dye. Water soluble aniline.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

> I don t understand why anyone would want to use RIT dye on their woodworking project. Between the commonly available TransFast, TransTint and Behlen products (and countless others) and the premium dyes from W.D. Lockwood, an endless array of colors can be created, so why use fabric dye? Am I missing something?
> 
> - Rich


 Hey Rich, I use fabric dyes hot to dye veneer. It needs to be kept hot for days to penetrate well and you need it in gallons. Price and availability work for the fabric dyes as well as knowing that they have worked for others in the past.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Hey Rich, I use fabric dyes hot to dye veneer. It needs to be kept hot for days to penetrate well and you need it in gallons. Price and availability work for the fabric dyes as well as knowing that they have worked for others in the past.
> 
> - shipwright


You mean that blue flower isn't made from blue wood? Seriously though, who knew? I'd never heard of it and I stand corrected.


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## Blindhog (Jul 13, 2015)

Another point to consider is that not everyone does woodworking as a profession. I'm sure many on this site work the craft as an avocation/hobby and may not have the financial resources to buy at will. Seeking a cost effective alternative to provide a good end result should be respected and supported.
Not a knock on anybody, just another point of view….................


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I've never used fabric dye on wood but two different finish books experts say that it's not very colorfast, on the other hand, Rit company has instructions on how to dye wood.

https://www.ritdye.com/instructions/wood/


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

My research leads me to the conclusion that it is likely as colourfast as any other treatment. Valuable pieces just shouldn't be left in the sun. Period.
The Rit instructions will get you a surface colour but won't stand much of a sanding. I am now getting the best penetration by suspending veneer vertically for four to ten days (1/16") in hot Tulip brand fabric dye. This amount of aniline dye would get pricey.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

I am wondering if these Rit water-based dyes could be *used with alcohol* instead of water? This might prevent the problems with water on wood.

As an amateur machinist, I frequent one of the machinist forums. One of the people there says he is replacing "Dykem blue" (a dark blue lacquer applied to metal to lay out your machining/cutting lines. You apply the blue, let it dry, then scribe the layout lines by scratching them on by scratching through the blue background to expose the shiny metal line. Very precise) with Rit liquid dye in shellac instead of water. He swears it works great! Cheaper than Dykem blue and easier to obtain.

Any thoughts?


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

The proof is in the pudding as they say Paul, but other than pieces that can be submerged in fabric dye for long periods of time I wonder how long the dye will last getting down to just how practical fabric dye is for use in furniture or boxes etc?


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

> The proof is in the pudding as they say Paul, but other than pieces that can be submerged in fabric dye for long periods of time I wonder how long the dye will last getting down to just how practical fabric dye is for use in furniture or boxes etc?
> 
> - a1Jim


But Rit is cheap. 
Just need to figure a way to heat it up for about a week. LOL


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

It better be cheap if you filling that container "J" LOL


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

I prefer to spray mine.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Im with Rich all the way on this… Why????
save a nickle to lose a dollar.
most of the better dyes today are Metal Complex… basically meaning "man made pigments", much more color fast 
Analine dyes are mostly earth pigments, ... best example is Indigo , it makes a blue dye and its dominate use is 
"blue jeans ", and we all know how colorfast they are .

Each to their own .


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

> Im with Rich all the way on this… Why????
> 
> - CharlesNeil


Great, now all I have to do is find an old fire engine and hose!
(Thank god I didn't have to fill up that dumpster.)


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Im with Rich all the way on this… Why????
> 
> - CharlesNeil
> 
> ...


Well, they do say to flood the surface…


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## georgepseifert (Aug 16, 2017)

Would an old crock pot work to keep the dye warm? It's easy to find second hand used crock pots.

I posted this on an older thread and then saw this new thread and thought it might be more easily seen here.

George


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Could do. The only way to find out for sure is to try it but I see no reason it wouldn't.
The shape isn't optimal if it's round but it should do.


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

FWIW - Do not ignore impact of osmotic pressure, or root pressure when it comes to infusing wood!

In distance past, was ask to develop a wood infusion process using epoxy and polyurethane polymers for some potting applications. Learned you have two things to consider when attempting to permeate wood:

1) Trees can generates up to ~90 psi of root pressure to help move fluid through the tree. 
You can significantly increase infusing rates by taking advantage of pressure to help move fluid across the cell wall barriers.

2) Wood naturally holds water. 
You need to remove as much of this water as possible using osmotic pressure differences, in order to be able to infuse any other liquid in same place. Applying vacuum speeds the process up dramatically.

Process I used for polymer infusion had several steps:

A) Vacuum drying wood in ~140F oven below 0.5% moisture. 
Depending on starting moisture level and thickness, can take days for wood core to be dried. Veneer would be extremely fragile when this dry. Do not use too much vacuum on wet wood, or wood cracks as steam is explosively released.  Using higher temperature can result in scorching of dry wood during long exposure. Once we had data on stable drying process and time required, we left the wood in sealed tank as surface immediately begins sucking moisture from air. The surface moisture was an issue for the polymer curing.

B) Submerging the wood in a tank under 100psi pressure and 120F.
The length of time needed to infuse wood depends on thickness. We needed ~36 hours for 1/2 inch thick maple, Oak had shorter infusion time. My guess is a thin dry veneer would only need 4-12 hours under pressure. We used elevated temp to lower viscosity of polymers, using water may not need temperature?
For really thick cross sections, we learned that trapped air was impeding infusion. So we added a couple of 20 minute low vacuum cycles during pressure infusion to help push polymer further into wood, at a faster rate.

To make this process simpler, we used same 'tank' for entire process. Wood was placed in a stainless steel tank, applied vacuum continuously while in an oven, then when dry - tank was filled with polymer through a hose while still in oven. The impregnated parts were removed from tank, wiped down, and then placed in a 325F oven to complete cure on polymer system. 
Unfortunately I am unable to provide more information. But I can say that the similar vacuum encapsulation process has been used for 40+ years in military electronics, and government standards exist to ensure all suppliers are using a 'qualified' process. I'd bet money that same process would work well trying to push dye into wood veneer.

Best Luck.


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## georgepseifert (Aug 16, 2017)

I'd appreciate some guidance on how much dye to use. I'm using emerald green RIT dye with a little black mixed in. At first I mixed it so that the color looked pretty good when I spread a little on the veneer. So I soaked it for a couple of hours and it was getting really dark. After about 4 hours it was pretty much black and hadn't completely soaked through yet. So I watered it down quite a bit and it's still way too dark. Now it's watered down to the point where it barely looks like anything when I spread it on the veneer. So far it's been in about 2 hours and it's already too dark. I'm using small strips of ash and figured maple for the tests and the dye is in a glass jar. I heat it up a bit periodically in a double boiler kind of arrangement. So how in the world do you know how much dye to use?

BTW, here's an example of the green color I'm trying to achieve. I'd certainly buy it if I could find a wood like this, but have had no luck finding anything like it. It kind of looks like figured maple to me.


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## jacksdvds (Jun 13, 2015)

What about ink jet inks. I just fill a black cartridge and I swear it has "permeated" all the way to my hand bones


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