# Chisels...who has the best combo of value and quality?



## ShaneA

I am looking into getting another set of chisels. I have a set or two already, but nothing of any real quality. I have the yellow stanleys that I like to beat on, because sometimes I just like to beat on stuff. I have a set I got at the woodworking show a year or two ago. Not even sure of the brand, some sort of chinese stuff. But these are my "good chisels" at this point. A full set of Narex mortise chisels too.

As I am no expert on the matter, making a choice of what I want, what I need, and what I prepared to pay becomes a little puzzling. I am thinking I would like to keep it to around $200 or less for some sort of set, of at least 4…but I guess more is better? I have been looking at Ashley Iles, Stanley SW750, Two Cherries, and a few Japanese makes. I am guessing the difference in chisels basically comes down to quality of steel, edge retention, balance, feel and aesthetics. But maybe I am missing something. Are some of the lesser cost chisels really where it is at? The woodriver chisels look pretty nice, as do the Narex offering. Heck I am even open to vintage, but have no idea what I am looking at. I have all the sharpening gear, so that shouldnt be a problem. But no lathe or capacity to make new handles.

Is there an ideal balance of quality and cost to be found? I cant see myself spending $50 a chisel at this point, but I would be able to lay out a couple of hundred to get something a little better that I have. Should I stay with the lower cost ones, and get some other stuff, or spend as much as I am comfortable with, because the quality will make it worth it? I know that subject has come up before, so I apologize for being repetitive. Any comments, insights, or suggestions would be welcome. Thanks for looking.


----------



## mochoa

Ashley iles, peep out Mads' blog it sumes it up prwtty well. I think they are the best value in high end chisels¥


----------



## lysdexic

Shane, great question. I have the woodriver set and I am not impressed. I did a review on them that was not favorable. However, many disagreed with my assessment. I use them to bang on.

I ended up buying a LN set. They are beautiful and my wife gets all amorous when she sees the way I handle them. But they are too expensive and their marginal improvement in quality is not evident in my hands.

I have read Mads opinion of the Ashley Iles and for that reason I am considering them for a few mortise chisels. However, it seems they are always sold out.

If I were looking for a set of nice (not uber premium) chisels I would look at the new Stanleys. They are damn near identical to the LN's at 1/3 the price. The reviews are good and they are made in England. Smitty has them and raved about them about a year ago. Maybe he will chime in.


----------



## jjw5858

Man, I feel your pain exactly. I have read so many reviews on various chisels….and will say….I totally agree with not wanting to spend $50 to almost $75 per chisel. I have 4 Stanely fat maxes and honestly on the diamond stones they really hold strong and very sharp. But I wanted some wood handles that can provide me the same great sharpeness these stanley fat maxes have. I have heard nice things on the Stanley 750 sweehearts but then I have heard some bad things like the handles are not that great. My honest idea…..find a set for the bucks you really are interested in and possibly puchase one size not included in the set of five or four lets say…maybe a 1 1/4 size….give it a go…..if you like it, I would get the rest of the lower sizes in a 5 or 4 chisel set.

I was loving the new Veritas set….than I saw $295…...omg….lol. I think thats just a little overboard….lol.

Just an idea, I am sure you will get some better replies to the problem.

All the best!

Joe


----------



## lysdexic

These AI's are wonderful looking. A set of six is $150 and the same $ as the above Stanley's. But you can't buy the set because the 1" is out of stock.


----------



## lysdexic

Joe brings up the new Veritas chisels. They are high $ but we know the Veritas makes good stuff. I don't know anything about them though.


----------



## Rick Dennington

I have no idea….I just come here sometimes…...!!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

+1 for the 750 SW re-issues. Love the feel, edge retention, set-up, and overall quality. My review is here on LJs, and ia still valid today. Hadn't heard issues with the handles, that's news. I paid 200 for my set, good luck with your decision, Shane!


----------



## ShaneA

Thanks for the feedback fellas. I like the looks and price of the SW. $178 for 8. The Ashley Isles are something I have never heard anyone say something bad about. But how many people have them? Looks like they are only sold in 2 places in the US. The japanese ones look super cool, but I know nothing of them. Blue steel, white steel? Not sure what that really means.


----------



## thedude50

Shane, I buy vintage chisels. I have been building a full set of firmer chisels. I have six sets of bench chisels and I would consider a new set of the Stanly's mostly because I like the old ones I have. I know the gripe on the new Stanly's and think it is a bunch of crap the new sweethearts are very nice and the handles are warranty so what would I care if one broke. I have two sets of footprint chisels and a set of the old blue marples chisels they are both better than lots of the reviews say they are and by better I mean they take a beating and don't break they sharpen fairly easy and they hold their edge fairly well but not as well as the old sweetheart chisels I have. So I would lean to the new Stanly's if i had 200 bucks to spend. I would also like a set of AI chisels And I have considered AI for a set of pig stickers. which may be stupid because I have a dedicated mortiser.I find it more fun to cut a mortice with a chisel than with the mortising chisels and that dreadful noise that thing makes when the drill runs out of lubrication. That said The Lees have been boasting about their new chisels for 3 years and the new steel they say will change the world I may wait to buy till i can test one of these I do hope this helps you but I am in the same boat as you except that I already have a full set of antique chisels that I like and wish i had the time to turn handles from the right wood . Wood that takes a beating and looks good. there such a wood . Maybe hickory Hmm


----------



## Loren

Japan chisels feel different in the hand than Western chisels. The
handles aren't mounted straight in line with the blades and the
blades are short so they put your hand close to the work.

You can get some really good deals on no-name Japan chisels
on ebay. Even the most basic ones are high-carbon laminated
steel and will outperform the chrome vanadium found in 
many consumer grade chisels. The chrome vanadium has its
merits but the edges don't hold up as well as the high carbon
steels. The chrome vanadium resists rust so it is popular in
the mass market and used in Stanley plane irons too.

Be wary of the new 10 chisel sets of Japan chisels sold by Grizzly
and other retailers. They are "reform" style chisels and not the
same quality as the basic "Ice Bear" and other good Japan
chisels.

I guess my question for you is do you need a set for paring or
a set for chopping?


----------



## JGM0658

Taking a different tack Shane, what I did was look at those chisel sizes I used the most and bought the best japanese chisels I could afford at the time in those sizes. After 4 years, I have yet to say "I wish I had xx size".

While I understand the allure of buying a set, what is the use if half of them are going to sit on the shelve gathering dust?

So that would be my advise, on the other hand I have the chisels review done by FWW in PDF format. message me your e mail address and I will send it to you, it might help you make a better choice.


----------



## ShipWreck

It is hard to knock any chisel that can hold an edge pretty well and comes with a solid handle. I own a hodge podge collection of chisels. Some are expensive and some are crappers. Some of my best chisels were found at the bottom of rusty tool piles at the flea markets.


----------



## superdav721

A most interesting thread. Shane let us know your decision and can we have a review?


----------



## ShaneA

Will do Dave.

I imagine these would be used for paring, as I have some mortise chisels and my stanleys for chopping. Heck, can you even hit one of these wooden handled ones with a wood or uerathane mallet? So many questions….


----------



## waho6o9

As mentioned above, this ebay purchase of $99.00 USD was awesome because of the balance of the
chisels and the sharp edge.

Mortising hinges for a door install was a pleasure and I couldn't figure out why. Then it was Epiphany time, I wasn't 
struggling with the weight of the chisel, it seemed to work with me and made the install easy peasy.

I think the company was called Jabetc if I remember correctly.

Wow, it went up to 129.99 and free shipping. Still worth it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-PC-JAPANESE-WOOD-WORKING-CHISEL-WOODWORKING-TOOL-SET-/290

Recommended.


----------



## mochoa

Shane I was leaning towards the new Stanley set, either that or buying just 3 LN chisels, the ones you actually use most frequently. I had the advantage of being able to go down to Highland Woodworking and handle both of them. I like the way the LN's blade is offset a little to make paring easier, the Stanleys are not set up that way. I dont know, I just didnt fall in love with either of them.

In the end I really wanted some that had the dark wood (bubinga) and brass, they had great reviews, and the price was very fair so I went with the Ashley Iles and I really like them.

You can hit them with a wooden mallet with no problem. But if I'm doing some heavy chopping I use my old Marples to really be able to smash on them.


----------



## Loren

Well, in chopping you work the edge hardest. It depends
on the work you do. If you chop out a lot of dovetails
in fine work then the chisels work best if the edges hold
up really well because as inferior chisels dull the wood gets
bruised and it's tempting to push the edge farther than
you should because you want to get through the job 
without a trip back to the stones.

In terms of paring, the chisels that work best are long and
slender, even a bit flexible in some of the really nice ones,
so they can get deep into joints. The edge doesn't take
the same kind of beating and they are not hit with a mallet
often. You can get by with only one or two paring chisels - 
perhaps a 1/4" and a 3/4".

I don't actually own any standard paring chisels, and I 
have about 30 chisels. I have some vintage long 
crank-necked Buck Bros. paring chisels and some 
skew paring chisels by Crown.

In terms of really fine paring chisels the Iles are said to be 
good ones. The Japan paring chisels have a short
blade with an offset socket and long handle. They are
said to be really fine tools and something like $100-plus,
each.

A fine chisel designed for chopping can also do paring very
well, but often not in deep joints.

I don't much like the way they look, but the Veritas chisels
are probably quite good quality and a good value, like all the
Veritas tools.


----------



## Richforever

I have my sights set on the newly released set by Lee Valley. They look really good.


----------



## planeBill

Shane, +2 for the SW reissue chisels. I am far from a chisel expert but I do love the feel and quality of these tools. I don't know anything about the handle problems spoken of above because I didn't use them long. I have a sometimes bad tendency of making my tools "my tools" in any way I possibly can. For chisels that usually means new handles. An easy proposition with socket chisels. I have now made 3 different sets for them, a set like the original original handles with leather washers, a set of london pattern hornbeam handles and a set of longer paring-esq handles of hornbeam. Oh crap, I have 4 sets, I forgot about the pimped out walnut london handles with the brass caps. Which I don't really use. You can see those in the projects section. The chisels balance really nicely, they hold an edge almost as well as the older 750's or 720's and they sharpen easily enough.
If you have the capacity to rehab older ones anything by James Swan is great, IMHO, older stanley 750's or even 720's which are a bit longer if thats what you like, and Pexto chisels are my personal favorites. All of these are socket chisels and can be handled as you like, or as you are able. For tang chisels whitherby and butcher are great brands to look for. The above are not the only good ones out there by any means but seem to be plentiful and easy to find good, servicable chisels of these brands. Barring a regrind, rehabbing chisels is mucho fun to me because it seems to be pretty easy and one of those tasks I seem to like. I love sharpening tools though, something most seem to detest, I must be wierd. There is a lot of satisfaction in taking an old tool and breathing new life into it and making it beautiful again, not to mention helping it to further fullfill it's mission for untold years to come.
As you may be able to tell, I am in the camp of older,"vintage" chisels mostly because the steel is "usually a little better in them but also because I can find them a heck of alot cheaper than I can find the new chisels and given a little time and persistence you can build a very nice looking set of older chisels that are at least as good if not better than many that can be bought today. 
I bought my new 750's from a fellow LJ for a very fair price and do not regret my decision to buy them and have enjoyed using them very much, they are damned nice chisels, but if I had to choose between the new and the old, well, I think I've made my view clear enough. 
I have no experience with the Japanese chisels but from what I've read everywhere, they are like all other chisels. There are good ones and there are not so good ones. Like most everything else, I guess you get what you pay for most times.
It's a very personal question you've asked and I hope you find a satisfactory answer that doesn't prove to be too costly.
If you need, I would be more than willing to turn you some handles should you decide to go the vintage route or if you get the new stanley SW's, at least I know I could make them to fit yours because that's what I have. Here are mine.
Clockwise from top left are the long-ish paring type handles, the original 750 type handles (some do not have the washers put on yet), some stanley 60's that I rehandled, a set of cheap marples from Home Depot that I rehandled ( both the stanley 60's and the marples are tang types), next to the marples are some Narex skew chisels with cherry handles, which I don't recommend, and then are the stanley SW's and some James Swan and pexto chisels and an old PINE KNOT (??? anyone ever heard of that).


----------



## lysdexic

Planebill, that is a wonderful chisel collection.

These are only $900 for the set. C'mon Shane!


----------



## donwilwol

they are just to pretty to sharpen!


----------



## ShaneA

Oh my gosh Bill, those are some beauties, thanks for the input.

Scott, unfortunately…those are just a bit outside my price range. But if you wanted to buy a set for me for an early birthday gift…I would let you.

I am thinking I am going to have to due some more looking. I may just end up getting a smaller set, maybe the AI or SW. Then get some individual chisels as well. Maybe some sort of japanese DT chisel or two, or another maker in different size, so I can get a good feel what is out there. I will also get me a few vintage too. But I am not set up to turn those wonderful handles yet. Nothing like looking for the next tool to buy. Woodworking is great. Thanks again for all the help guys.


----------



## Johnnyblot

A lot of good advice here (as per usual). I have a set of 5 Lie Nielsen bevel edge chisels. You cannot go wrong with a set of L-N's. To my mind these are a great 'benchmark '.
I've heard good things about new Narex chisels, especially the cabinetmakers 8116, at a very reasonable price.


----------



## planeBill

Not to knock on tje narex chisels too much but those skews from them were just horrific out of tje box so to speak. The backs were as crooked as a politician. They took major time at tje stone to flatten and the machining marks are very promimant. Definitely an e in my book. I can deal with some major work on an 80 year old chisel but not a new one even at that price. I expected some but not of that magnitude. However they seem to stay sharp a.d in a decent state of rediness once whipped into working order. I think the steel is chromium vanadium? It feels and soumds wierd to me and they feel light in the extreme. Again though they seem to take a good edge. Maybe because they are skews and not the steel but they are hard to sharpen freehand for me. Being me,I just couldnt handle the handles hence the new(improved) ones. For the price though they would be worth considering
I know I did very seriously. I still may pull the trigger. I think I am with chisels like man y more are with planes. 
Thanks for the complime.ts on my set. Thats not all of them though.
And as said directly above LN's are always a safe bet but I couldn't afford them.


----------



## thedude50

I have to say that most new chisels will have machine marks and you are going to have to flatten and polish the backs. Then to what ever end you choose to use sharpen them till the shave hair I always test my chisels this way and now you know why all the hair is gone on both arms. I think I voted for the new sweethearts but that does make 3 votes for them.

Scott I would like those chisels but the damn things a metric. .

I have a friend who is going back to japan this year and I asked him to bring me a set back. He is checking on the price. I am hoping in the 400 dollar range. Cant wait to start using all metric tools in my shop it is just easier math to do metric stuff.


----------



## ShaneA

http://www.ebay.com/itm/320935943657?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/320935941126?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l264

Well, as I am not expert as posting links, but hopefully these work. Picked these two up for $41 del for the pair. Of course I have no idea how I did, I will leave that to the experts. But I figure I am just sampling some of the vintage market. More to come hopefully


----------



## ksSlim

for that money Shane, you can't get hurt much.
I've some old Stanley sockets, some Marples, some Butchers, some Isles and some hand forged paring chisels.
Gone through several trying to find those that hold an edge. My older Isles, Butchers and Stanleys are still best.


----------



## ShaneA

That is kinda what I was thinking Slim. Just dip my toes in to check the water.

There are a ton of the Japanese chisels out there. So many to look at and choose from. Making it tough for chisel idiot to wade through all the options. Options, options, options. I am in info overload.


----------



## superdav721

This thread just keeps getting better.


----------



## Loren

The Japan chisels with the red oak handles and JAPAN 
stamped on the back of the blade come up on ebay
often enough. I have several and I paid much more
than they go for now at some auctions, back in the 
1990s. They are good, basic chisels with a thick piece 
of tool steel welded to a softer steel backing and the 
back ground hollow. I have six and acquired them
individually at an average cost of about $30 each from
a now closed fine tool store.

They are probably produced by Iyoroi or other good
chisel factories but for export (the Japanese don't
stamp domestic goods "JAPAN" - duh) without 
labels.

They take a sharp edge and hold it very well in paring - 
but the edge doesn't hold up as well in leveraging
chips. I've never put mine on a hot roof or done other
additional heat treatment of them… I probably should.

Japan chisels are not made to be micro-beveled, so 
making them more obtuse to handle chopping better
involves regrinding the entire bevel.

Like this one (missing strike hoop):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-WIDE-JAPANESE-SOCKET-CHISEL-VERY-NICE-HIGH-QUALITY-CHISEL-/190696601044?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c666735d4


----------



## planeBill

Yes, all (most) chisels will need work Shane, even (especially) vintage chisels but the Narex chisels that I got were a little excessive and I'll probably buy more of them in the future just because they are such a good deal.
I think you did fine on your ebay stanleys. I had both of those on my watch list, Glad you got them. I have a few of those with no series numbers and they are just fine. I have heard, don't know if it's true, that some of the 750's and 720's were unmarked and that is what these are but I don't know for sure. I do know that Stanley made quite a few different series of chisels. Does anyone know about those? The ones with no series numbers on them ? They just say Stanley and Made in USA on the socket?
I am with you on not knowing enough about the Japanese chisels to make an educated buy but at the same time wanting to buy some and give them a go. There are so many different ones out there it's hard to decipher which ones to try.
Good luck with the new chisels.


----------



## ShaneA

Well…since I have grown tired and worn from looking at chisels. I have bought the couple vintage stanleys listed above. Have a few more bids working on ebay on some vintage models. I have also purchased a set of 6 japanese chisels. Who knows what those are all about…but I am going to give them a look. A place called mannyswoodworkersplace.com had some at what seemed a "reasonable" price. Time will tell on those. I also ordered from thebestthings.com 3/8, 5/8, and 7/8 Ashley Isle chisels. Those widths werent included in the japanese set or in the standard AI set. So I figure if I hate the japanese ones, and prefer the AI ones, I can add the AI set at a later time. Or if I fall in love with the japanese ones, I could "upgrade" further, if need be in the future. All told I am at $203ish for all 9 chisels delivered, not including my 2 vintage ($41) and a couple of outstanding bids which may or maynot come home to me. Thanks again for all the advice and suggestions. I will update further when they arrive, and review once I have put them through the paces.


----------



## donwilwol

thanks for posting this Shane. I've been watching. I've been thinking of a set of chisels myself. I've got a drawer full, but having a set is starting to intrigue me. I've been looking at the nerex and the stanleys in the lee valley catalog. The stanleys are $100 more. I'm still unsure, and the drawer full has always fulfilled my needs so far. New goes against my vintage core, but I'm not sure I have the strength to track down a set of vintage.


----------



## BubbaIBA

Don,

I have a set Ashley Isle's on the way for some of the same reasons. I have a wall full of various makes and sizes but almost no full sets. I prefer vintage iron but here in the desert not many are to be found and the prices on eBay are out of reason especially for sets. Last set of Pexto chisels I bid on went for $400 USD for 6 chisels, that's $60 USD more than the set of 11 Ashley Isle chisels cost delivered. On eBay I'm seeing most good names going for around $20 USD for one chisel plus shipping. That and an almost 25% lost rate because of either significant pitting or bad sharpening has me pulling out of the vintage chisel market.

I have a set of Ray Iles' pig sticker mortise chisels, bought for many of the same reasons, good vintage pig stickers are hard to find and most cost too much for what you received. If the Ashley Iles paring chisels are as nice as the Ray Iles' pig stickers I will be very happy with them. YMMV.

ken


----------



## Loren

I'm a bit embarrassed to admit I splurged on a set of 4 Barr chisels. 
They are unbelievably pleasurable to handle and admire. They
exude "handmade" quality and the balance is very, very nice. 
Unfortunately you cannot buy the basic sizes in anything but a set.

The finest tools hold resale value well and you won't go wrong 
buying L/N, Barr, Iyoroi, Iles and probably the new Veritas ones.
You can always resell the premium brands for close to what 
they retail for if you find they don't work for you. Unlike 
machinery, the best hand tools don't collapse in resale value
as soon as they get the first scratch.


----------



## Johnnyblot

Hi. Just a little more info on the Narex chisels. My info comes from here- Workshop Heaven- Fine Tools Based here in England. They say :-
The blades are forged from chrome manganese spring steel which is vastly superior to chrome vanadium, they are isothermally hardened giving an even RC59 through 75% of the blade and the backs are fractionally hollow so they are quick and easy to prepare. I'm guessing this is similar to the backs of Japanese chisels?

They now sell 8116 Cabinet Makers Chisels, which are finer ( look like LN chisels) than the ones planeBill is describing (I think). I don't own any of these (yet) but they look like a lot of bang for your buck'.
Mathew from Workshop Heaven has a YouTube Video here explain these chisels.
Cheers
John


----------



## ShaneA

I have the Narex mortise set. Have only had a chance to use one briefly, seems pretty stout.

Loren, I think pictures are in order. They sound wonderful.

Picked up a couple Swan chisels today too. This kind of feels like the plane sickness again!


----------



## Bertha

I'd probably give the new SW's a go. I resisted them like crabs but too many people who know what they're doing like them. I've got too many vintage 750s to mess with them but I bet they're nice. For mortise, hard to beet a big butcher pigsticker.


----------



## lysdexic

That is one thing that I don't have but need quite often. Mortise chisels.


----------



## donwilwol

talk about timing….http://lumberjocks.com/PaulSellers/blog/30847


----------



## planeBill

Johnnyblot, thanks for that link. Yes, those are much nicer than the ones I have, which are the skew chisels, the backs of which were definitely not flat, let alone slightly hollow. I love the hornbeam handles, the wood and the design. I certainly wasn't putting down the narex brand. Quite the contrary. By saying that even I own, and will probably will buy more in the future, I was giving an endorsement. It's just that there are many other, older chisels out there that I would buy first. However, for a complete set of chisels the price of the narex, especially the newest ones, is a hell of a deal.
Shane, a big congrats on getting those Swan chisels. I love mine. I bet you will too. Some fine steel in those.


----------



## mochoa

Pual Sellars video was very eye opening Don, thanks for posting.


----------



## mochoa

Now I want one of those chisel mallet's that Paul Sellers uses. I think Joe got one from Lowes that was similar.


----------



## Johnnyblot

Thanks for the info. The truth is I'd give ANY chisels- old, new Jap whatever, a home.


----------

