# Plagiarism? Piracy? Or what do you call it?



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Has anyone noticed that their projects, blogs, photos or other submitted items are getting posted on other sites? I mean, like copied right out of Lumberjocks onto other woodworking sites? 
As far as I'm concerned, this is a practice that must stop. I was not asked for my permission to post elsewhere on the net. Anyone have thoughts about this? I post stuff only to be shared by other LJs, let other readers come here if they want to see what we are all about.


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## manumurf (Mar 4, 2010)

I haven't seen that but it would make sense that someone could be doing that.

I was going to offer my one piece folding chair full size pattern to you LJ's that wanted it. I would have to fax you 15 pages of stuff and you could put it back together. See my projects to know what I mean.

If I see them being mass produced from China I may get a bit miffed.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Hi MM!
no, I mean, our posts about our woodworking projects is getting lifted verbatim out of the LJ site as if it was posted in this other person's site! I'm hesitant to divulge the link, last thing I want to do is give this pirate any exposure. I've PM'ed Martin about it.


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

Hey Poop…

Have you notified any of the LJ's who have been pirated?


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## Mogebier (Feb 4, 2010)

My friend's site has had this problem. Not with any woodworking, but with some rather nice scenic "vacation" type pics. The people weren't bright enough to steal the pictures, they just linked to them to steal his bandwidth too. So he got them back by substituting some extremely rude and offensive photo's. I will not even describe what the pictures were, because some of your eye's might explode


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*Hi, Tony!
I'm waiting for a response from Martin; for all I know he already has knowledge of it. It annoys me, mostly because of a recent post I did about my latest project posted, a spiral-turning ornamental lathe I built. I mentioned it to a colleague of mine, who found MY project presented on another site!!!! It looks like this person harvests all kinds of activity from other sites and presents it as his original material.*


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Hey, Folks!
*IMPORTANT NOTE:
Google your Lumberjock user name, for example TonyS as above, or any Lumberjock user's name who has a lot of activity here. You will see his/her projects, blogs, videos, and perhaps other stuff…listed in other peoples' websites. AND… they are soliciting comments from their own members about MY projects!!! I doubt if anyone ever gave permission for their stuff to be pirated into these other forums. Did anybody know this was happening?*_


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## Mogebier (Feb 4, 2010)

Find out who the Admin of that site is and tell him what is going on. There is nothing you can do to keep people from stealing images from web sites. Nothing at all. Except not post them.


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## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

I, for one, would appreciate it if someone found my projects posted on another site that they would let me know.

I guess it is a fact of the Internet that everyone thinks everything there is "free" but it would still be nice if they would ask.

Lew


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Mogebier:
I'm aware that indiscriminate eBay sellers will steal one another's pics to sell their own similar items, which drives me nutzo too. But I'm finding this to be most offensive, a project that I have created, and shared ONLY with my fellow lumberjocks, turns up on a totally different site like the owner is getting a good story and pics and profiting from his piracy. It's not fun, stumbling over stuff like this, and makes me hesitate to post anymore projects…god knows where they're ending up!!! The first time I saw it, it was a discussion topic on his site… the next time, it was a link to the LJ site…but it IS my intellectual property!!


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## interpim (Dec 6, 2008)

hmmm

http://www.penportal.net/?p=3312


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

All righty folks…DO NOT click here: http://workshop.hughdidit.com/?tag=particle-board 
There you'll see my lathe project, pictures and text, verbatim, in its entirety. STOLEN outta here.
This "workshop/hughdidit.com stole my LJ project posting. And possibly a zillion other projects originally posted in Lumberjocks. Maybe some of yours!!!!


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*One more note…I found MY project listing only because my user ID was inserted into the text by my reference to a 'poopiekat' blog. Most of the projects have been completely sanitized, with the project's owner's name edited away. But MANY projects I saw were already familiar to me, having read them here already. Go see if your good projects, blogs, or messages have been ripped off.*


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Interpim, you're on the right track…how many sites are there that are pirating the activity of Lumberjocks members?


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Why not reach out to Hugh, and see what his deal is?

My guess? He sells ads on his website. More clicks (/hits) = higher $$ ad rates.

http://whois.domaintools.com/hughdidit.com


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Lew, you might see your submissions on that site, or ones you recognize from other users. I'm starting to think that the site harvests articles from elsewhere on the net through the use of keywords. It's just plain dishonest, in my opinion.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Methinks I'm right:

http://hughchapman.com/

Look at his "Goals for 2010."

Poopiekat? I think YOU are one of his goals 

I'd call him.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

true enough, Beener! There's no link to the webmaster there, however! He probably got tired of the complaints and demands to remove peoples postings from other websites.
EDIT: Yup, I stand corrected, Nbeener!


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

I think he'd be easy enough to get ahold of.

He does NOT seem to be flying under radar….


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Hmmm…I have to give him my name in order to contact him? NFW…unless we organize.
Frustrating to think that he can steal bits and pieces of us without our permission, without consideration of any kind… and get away with it. As I said, Martin must have an opinion on this, and I will wait for his opinion before I take the bull by the horns…


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## GaryC (Dec 31, 2008)

It might be better to see who all his sponsors are and write them a letter


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## ClayandNancy (Feb 22, 2010)

Gary

That's a good idea, hit him in the wallet maybe he'll get the message when they start dropping him.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Reported to Martin.


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## Mogebier (Feb 4, 2010)

There is no way the admin of this site can stop people stealing things.
And GHman is correct, you really should think about just letting it go because you never know what kind of wacko's are on that site that might decide to do some 4chan action on your real life.
The Internet is full of scumbags, and it's best not to whip on the wrong ones.
And if you don't understand the 4chan reference, just think of some anonymous jerk deciding to spam you with 1000's of porn pictures and e-mails and find out your house and job and work etc and do an freak out attack on them too.
You never know.


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

Moge…you're right sometime it fires back and things get worst best to let go.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Agreed, Mogebier.
I was a victim years ago of somebody who used my customary ID to post some vulgar trash on a British website. How nice of GMman to post it here, hoping that others might think it was me. He's got time to remove it.


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

If you were a victim once just let go it's just a photo.


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

I wonder if a watermark (over the images) with a copyright notice and for "LumberJocks site only" would deter any of these people…


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

On the internet all is open if you don't want people to see your work don't post it.


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

GMman, that sounds like the US to me! I think it's bad all over. Poopiekat, you MIGHT try going to the sites in question and posting (under another handle, of course, since yours was ganked) and explain that the pix are frauds, and are your original works, with a link to LJ. Sad to say, that may invite etoughness from the perps, and it will mess it up here. Then, you'd need a webmaster whose sole job was cleaning up the mess. Sad.


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

I realize there is a side conversation going on here, but I am still thinking about a way to get these poeple to go somewhere else. I updated the photo in this blog entry to look like this



I am interested in views about this as a possible solution (or at least a deterrent)


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Unfortunately, with today's technology, anything publically exposed is up for grabs. Just ask the musicians!!


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## TwangyOne (Apr 21, 2009)

I think it's set to automatically copy any projects we post on here. I was searching for any of mine on there, and my post from earlier this month, sure enough was there. It was tagged under "woodworking" and after I clicked on Woodworking, I noticed every project I'd seen posted today was already on that site. I will say at least they put links to the original page, but that's kind of low for not posting a disclaimer or to make money off of our free website.


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## alanealane (Oct 1, 2007)

I checked to see if my bass guitar posted here was on this other site, and didn't find it. But I did see Marc Spagnuolo's "Birth of a Guitar" videos posted there. FOR SHAME!!!

What's he getting out of this? Payment for advertising? He certainly wouldn't be able to duplicate the products of the woodworkers here at LJ if a potential customer came to him and wanted something posted on his site…


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## manumurf (Mar 4, 2010)

You are correct. The projects seem to appear on his site as they appear on LJ.

His site is http://hughchapman.com We should all send him emails several times a day that tell him how unprofessional and unethical he is in doing what he is doing.

Inundate the asshole with emails.

I can send him several per day.

And when I am in his area, I may just look him up. It's only about 70 miles from here.


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## dfdye (Jan 31, 2010)

The best course of action may be to file a DMCA takedown notice with his ISP.


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

I had to look up DMCA - Digital Millenium Copyright Act . I would need to read through this, but it seems like a copyright notice would be enough to trigger a DMCA case…


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## manumurf (Mar 4, 2010)

Am I breaking a law by clicking on his "contact me" button and emailing him? Are you?

It also would not be out of bounds to start putting a line in each project submission that says "this is a work of original art by (your name here)" and if it shows up on his site without that in it, then you know he is editing the text.

Maybe he will notice, stop what he is doing, and no one needs to hire an attorney.


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## dfdye (Jan 31, 2010)

Well, like I said, if we just contact his service provider, his site could get taken down almost immediately. There are actually some pretty stiff penalties in the DMCA if a violator puts stuff back up without proving they have legit usage rights for the content. I think a letter could be drafted pretty easily.

-quick hit from Wikipedia-
(sorry for the weird formatting)

"Here's an example of how the takedown procedures would work:

1. Alice puts a copy of Bob's song on her AOL-hosted website.
2. Bob, searching the Internet, finds Alice's copy.
3. Charlie, Bob's lawyer, sends a letter to AOL's designated agent (registered with the Copyright Office) including:
a. contact information
b. the name of the song that was copied
c. the address of the copied song
d. a statement that he has a good faith belief that use of the material in the manner complained of is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law.
e. a statement that the information in the notification is accurate
f. a statement that, under penalty of perjury, Charlie is authorized to act for the copyright holder
g. his signature

4. AOL takes the song down.
5. AOL tells Alice that they have taken the song down.
6. Alice now has the option of sending a counter-notice to AOL, if she feels the song was taken down unfairly. The notice includes
a. contact information
b. identification of the removed song
c. a statement under penalty of perjury that Alice has a good faith belief the material was mistakenly taken down
d. a statement consenting to the jurisdiction of Alice's local US Federal District Court, or, if outside the US, to a US Federal District Court in any jurisdiction in which AOL is found.
e. her signature
7. If Alice does file a valid counter-notice, AOL notifies Bob, then waits 10-14 business days for a lawsuit to be filed by Bob.
8. If Bob does not file a lawsuit, then AOL must put the material back up."

Not sure where that gets us if we don't have lawyers and are not willing to follow through with filing lawsuits, but it is indeed an avenue.


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## thewoodmaster (Aug 29, 2009)

i say we all get together, go over to his house and beat him with our original projects.


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## Gar (Apr 9, 2009)

Is there some way lj can set it up to where when we post it puts a lj on the corner like ebay. This guy is just a chump and a punk. gutless wonder he is. but to do nothing and let it lay down not on a dare. The kooks coming after me let'm come. We'll take it on to each other who gets who first. I'll die for ever on my feet before I'll live one second on my knees. But to the postings I agree contact this sponsors how many lj's are there? Lj need to e-m every body to let them know about this. I think if he has my stuff I'll e-m him with tec questions. Then when he is wrong I'll tell him it my post.


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## PG_Zac (Feb 14, 2009)

I've just tried to use Hugh's "Contact Me" on his website, and there is just a blank page. I guess he has taken down the option of mailing or calling him in defense of a possible LJ response.


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## sambo56 (Feb 24, 2010)

His website is a wordpress blog. If you contact the people at wordpress, they might do something about it.


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## 2 (Feb 26, 2006)

I just sent a message to Hugh and asked him to stop scraping our RSS feeds.


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## Eagle1 (Jan 4, 2010)

I just emailed the Missouri State Atourney Generals office and asked if there anything that can be done about it. You might contact the atourney in your states to see what can be done about it.


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## getneds (Mar 18, 2009)

There is coding that does not allow site visitors to copy pictures. I know I've seen it before, When you right click it brings up a popup saying "this is cpoyrighted material. You must contact the original owner if you'd like a copy of this photo" It's about 3 or 4 lines of coding I'm sure martin can do. Martin, Easy script

This link brings you to a script that does not allow people to rightclick pictures. I am sure if this keeps happenening it'll deter people from posting. I don't want to see that happen. I visit daily sometimes more than once. Protect our projects, and most of all protect our Lumberjocks!


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## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

hughdidit, huh? No, the fact is, hugh didn't do it!

Solutions are simpler than anything suggested here. He gets charged for bandwidth. Go to his site, browse often, but never, ever click on any advertising links! If an ad looks interesting (and I didn't see anything that grabbed my attention), do a separate search to find it elsewhere. He doesn't do a good job in the search engines, so if you find any posts that are interesting, a simple search on key phrases in the post will bring up the site he stole it from near the top. He'll be doing you a favor by pointing you to other interesting sites that you haven't noticed before. Give them your eyeballs thereafter. To help this along, specifically mention LumberJocks in every post you make here from now on. If (when) he steals it, it will be more advertising for Martin's site and drive more eyeballs here! Even if he sanitizes every post, it will take him more and more time to steal content.


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## Chelios (Jan 2, 2010)

This was the only post people commented on last night, besides the pls believe Brazil sandpaper and the "can you guess what this is??"

oh and the stupid toyota forklift video

Come on guys talk some woodworking for a change


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## buffalo689 (Mar 2, 2010)

I just googled buffalo689..scarey amount of info, wow, that's what i get for being nieve


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I'm a little more laid-back about this, I guess.

If I don't want somebody to steal my television, I'm not going to leave it out on the front lawn while I'm on vacation. And if I don't want someone to steal my project photos or ideas, I'm not going to post them on the internet.


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## Seer (Jun 5, 2008)

I just copied and posted this thread to my other site at penturners.org to let them know what is going on.


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## dfdye (Jan 31, 2010)

Just got a laugh out of that last post, Seer! I know forwarding on a warning it isn't anything like copying projects, but the language made me laugh for a second.


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## North40 (Oct 17, 2007)

@*dfdye* - The irony is priceless!


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## Padre (Nov 5, 2008)

I didn't make the other site. Maybe my work is of such a lesser quality that I just don't rate.


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## Gary (Jul 24, 2006)

What Seer did is 100% different; he went to the IAP and said, `folks, look at this discussion on LJs'
He didn't take credit for anything someone else did nor plagarize their words as his own.

FWIW, if you have a website and want to link to my projects posted here, Thanks. I'm flattered so long as
you don't claim it's your work.

I think each person with a beef about what Hugh is doing should email him using the webform on his blog.
Tell him in polite language what you think.
Like I wrote elsewhere "Maybe he never received ethics education and doesn't realize what he's doing is
unethical and reprehensible."


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## cstrang (Sep 22, 2009)

We are all the legal owners of the copyright to our work and that is including the pictures of our work. This meaning that somebody cannot publicly copy our pictures and post them to a different public source of information (i.e. website) without the copyright owners permission. We do not need to fill out legal forms to obtain copyright of our original work, nor do we need to include the famed © symbol or watermark. Our ownership of the copyright to our own work is automatic. This still applies to images posted to the internet, even though this act makes them publicly available, they are not in public domain (in legal terms). Even though we do not need to watermark our images, it would be easier to prevent illegal copying. Maybe Martin can come up with an Lj watermark like sras suggested above to automatically appear on images posted in the projects section. I think that we should all take a deep breath, sit back and relax and leave this issue alone for now. At least until Martin hears back from Hugh. Then we can start contemplating how to further combat this problem if it still persists. I think legal action would be the best way to go.


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

This was posted on LJ and it looks like a copy I saw on yahoo.










Now who build it??


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## bake (May 1, 2008)

It seems that the title and the text of the project remain unchanged. Why don't we all include our name in the title and add our name to the text, then he will have to work harder to pass it off as his own.


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## webwood (Jul 2, 2009)

i say we stab him , then we shoot him , then we hang him (blazing saddles?)


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## thewoodmaster (Aug 29, 2009)

badges!? we don't need no stinkin badges!


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

How can you tell if the same thing is not happening here on LJ?
It is very easy to copy and paste it here.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

We have such high quality members they woudn't dare!!


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

Here is an example I just finish my bird houses. FAKE FAKE


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## Padre (Nov 5, 2008)

The guys resume doesn't even list woodworking.


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## mikedrums (Feb 1, 2010)

First. I'm guessing he has some kind of script that copies the media and/or simply points in its direction, creating a virtual mirror on his site. If he is selling ads, he is getting paid. He is ripping off the owner of *this* site. We all agree to put our content on this site… we agreed to the terms when we joined the site, which included producing income for its owner. (I didn't say, profit.) 

We DID NOT agree to have our content put on another guy's site and used to produce income for him. 
At best, this is a bush-league move by some douche bag who wants to profit from or take credit for another man's toils.
At worst, it's a criminal offense.

Second, I don't think it's harassment at all for all of us to email the guy and tell him he's being a douche nozzle, whether we do it to defend our own intellectual property, or simply to stick up for the owner of this site.

Third….. a tangent…. 
I had a couple associates whose sites were getting ripped off, big time. Other commerce sites were using their high quality photographs by simply linking directly to his site's URLs for the pics.

One of said associates replaced all the URLs with a message that the information and pics were copyright infringement, blah, blah, blah. That was the nice way.

The other associate went about it a whole other way.  He replaced all the pics and information in the stolen URLs on his own site with the most obscene, nasty, offensive pornographic images and text you could ever imagine… correct that, it was way beyond the imaginations of most of us.

Here's the kicker… he guy got a threatening email from the site owner who was stealing his information, threatening a law suit for scaring away his customers. He replied back, offering to pay the guys legal fees.


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## webwood (Jul 2, 2009)

Registrant:
CHAPMAN, HUGH
345 Begier Ave.
San Leandro, CA 94577
US

Domain Name: HUGHDIDIT.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
CHAPMAN, HUGH [email protected]
345 Begier Ave.
San Leandro, CA 94577
US
510-375-4547 fax: 123 123 1234

Record expires on 03-Aug-2013.
Record created on 03-Aug-2000.
Database last updated on 27-Mar-2010 13:31:52 EDT.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS1.SITEGROUND237.COM 
NS2.SITEGROUND237.COM


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## webwood (Jul 2, 2009)

kunk- great minds think alike-


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## knottysticks (Feb 8, 2010)

Sadly Mike Chapman just signed up yesterday and now his black walnut rocker [ Mike's rocker ] is already displayed on Hughdidit's web site. word for word . What a way to put a bad taste in your mouth after your first day here.


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## PaulfromVictor (Mar 29, 2009)

Perhaps his sponsors should be contacted.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, everyone, (well almost everyone) for so many cogent replies and words of encouragement. You know, it just never occurred to me, that my projects, blogs etc could be copied off and pasted to another site. Indeed, I never even heard of the term 'scraping' and since I don't host a site I never considered the possibility of anyone doing such a thing. However, I'm of course ready to prove the validity that my posts and projects are mine and mine alone. Thanks, sras, for your idea of watermarks. Ebay sellers do that as a standard practice these days.
Well, do we get out our pitchforks and torches, or what?
Even more disturbing….*This guy MIGHT BE a Lumberjock, too!*


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## vegeta (Mar 10, 2009)

i just went Thur i his site he has me for 4 items i have made 
so what does this do for guy like me that sells his stuff as hand made by me?
all it will take is 1 of my clients to see this and i loose all credibility


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## ReeBevol (Mar 27, 2010)

This has created quite a stir. I have an idea. Why not put your website, logo, contact info or some other identifying information on your picture in a way that he can't easily remove it so that you get free press….that is if you want free press. Who knows, maybe someone who doesn't possess woodworking skills will contact you to make something for them and you can make a few bucks on the side. Like Churchill said, "I don't care what you say about me, just spell my name right." Just a thought.


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## dstenson (Sep 27, 2008)

Wow, this has created quite a stir. I don't think what this guy is doing is right, but something to keep in mind is that all he is doing is scraping the rss feed and republishing the content on his site. The reason he's doing it is simply to drive traffic to his site and get ad clicks. He doesn't actually say anywhere that it is his work, should he be giving credit where credit is due? Absolutely! Interesting to note that he is leaving the title for each entry as a link back to the actual lumberjock entry.
Legal action, DMCA etc. will have little or no effect. Ultimately he could simply host his site from another country.
There are technical solutions to make it difficult to bulk scrape data, trust me, if he is forced to copy and paste text and images one at a time, he simply won't do it.

In the meantime, if you're a business and are posting your pictures here, you absolutely should have your website and/or email as a watermark on your photos, it's free advertising!

Personally, I am more hurt when I see a fellow LJ post a project that was obviously inspired by another (or me) and not being given credit, of even a nod.


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

Well Dave B. if you post your projects how can you prove it is yours and yours alone?


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## mikedrums (Feb 1, 2010)

Devin, don't ever get in the music business if you're hurt by that. 

BTW, with what, 17,000 members, I don't think it can ever be *obvious* that someone got their ideas from you.

In researching things to make my projects like, crosscut sled, mobile bases, tenoning jig, etc, etc., I saw literally dozens of designs that were nearly identical for each and every one, all over the internet. This *isn't* directed at you… but to be honest, I really don't see any of us on Lumberjocks, or anywhere else in the world having any original ideas when it comes to woodworking. It's all been done before. We just have fancier tools and jigs with which to do it. Heck, they were saying the same thing, when electricity came around. 

To get back to the music analogy…. woodworkers, like musicians, have a long and rich heritage from which to draw our inspiration. Like the saying in music goes, "There are only 12 notes and they've all been used before."

True originality in music is so rare, it's almost impossible and I think the same can be said for woodworking. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, today, but it's certain one in a million.

Does that mean we should all chuck it (pun) and give up. Of course not. As with music, just because what we're making isn't original doesn't mean we don't love making it nor get/give much joy from it.


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## webwood (Jul 2, 2009)

i think we are missing the point here - many of us operate web sites in an ethical manner. generating hits is paramount to our success, and the meta tags are what create hits - however, he is using our projects to generate hits on his site - if it is done with our permission, that's o.k. - but when someone arbitrarily uses other people's work for their own personal gain, that is unethical. People post here to share their work with others who may gain inspiration from something they have done… when they see that someone has carelessly taken not only the pictures, but their words, descriptions and titles, it is like a violation against them. Honestly, in my opinion, the site looks very amateurish and extremely unprofessional, if he is trying to generate customers from pulling hits away from lumberjacks, I don't believe anyone would purchase anything from a site like that. Anyway, people that unethical will have to face their own karmic moment - not even worth the time to give it this much attention, we are probably just adding fuel to the fire…


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

The basic premise is taking somebody elses work and copying it and calling it your own is wrong…plain and simple…
And on a lighter note everyone check out the painting I just finished…it's my mother in law


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## cranbrook2 (May 28, 2006)

Great job David !!! You are good !!!


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, webwood! These threads tend to morph a bit, and I appreciate your effort to steer it back on track. 
There will be people unaffected by all of this, as well as people whose very livelihood may be jeopardized by this piracy thing. You've articulated the whole situation in a nutshell, in a way that I could not have possibly expressed 24 hours ago when I first noticed something was wrong.


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## webwood (Jul 2, 2009)

i dated that chick back in "92" --- 1492-what are you doing with pics of my girl?


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## mikedrums (Feb 1, 2010)

"Anyway, people that unethical will have to face their own karmic moment - not even worth the time to give it this much attention, we are probably just adding fuel to the fire…"

That "karmic moment" might come in the form of embarrassment or inner conviction from several dozen emails asking the guy to quit being such a tool.

I don't get the fuel to the fire reference unless he's somehow doing it simply for attention.


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## webwood (Jul 2, 2009)

cause i can only imagine how many hits his site took today - moving it up higher on the web browsing index


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## mikedrums (Feb 1, 2010)

All the more reason for everyone reading and posting to this thread to send him a "cease and desist" email.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Must not be grabbing everything, I didn't see any of my projects there.


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

What is the big deal the ones he takes the name of the LJ is still posted so cedit to the LJ!


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## cranbrook2 (May 28, 2006)

I have had tons of pics posted of my work all over the place . As long as they don,t claim it as their own i really don,t care


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## JAGWAH (Dec 15, 2009)

Me either Topamax, I feel so unworthy.

Woodworking is a tough thing. Maloof makes a chair. Everyone loves that chair and his reputation is based on that chair. There is no doubt when you see that style of chair you think of Maloof. And yet there are hundreds of sites offering that style of chair. Sure there a minor differences but it's his chair. Maloof was confident in the quality of his work he never seemed bothered with all the imatators. He even held classes to learn how to build his signature chair.

I don't mean to deminish the pain of seeing your work out ther copied and sold by someone else. But you know your work, you know the quality of your labors and you don't have to appoligies or explain the poor copies made by others.

If you've registered and copy righted your piece then get an attorney and drag them into court. Otherwise relax and focus on your work, focus on your quality and the rest won't matter. JMHO


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

I can understand the dismissive attitude exhibited by some, because it all depends on whose ox is getting gored. But carefully consider Eddy's plight above, in reference to a maker's credibility being questioned when his proprietary pics are seen as someone else's property on other sites.
I can truly understand the various reasons why this subject is of little import to some people.


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

JAGWAH very well said


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## cranbrook2 (May 28, 2006)

Then there are those who really have little to worry about, when the pirates come a-plundering……

Don,t be so hard on yourself


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

John said: *Don,t be so hard on yourself *
Who started this thread? Did you forget?


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## hazbro (Mar 19, 2010)

a little browsing on hughstoleit.com: I clicked his pricing your work article. cut and pasted the first paragraph into google and voila : the wood whisperer.

And no linky to original site. or credit to author.

blatant plagiarism. he's gone beyond just posting projects with links and credits, he's stealing content and claiming it as his own. he's got real legal issues. could have him shut down quickly.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

I have NO idea why my older posts on a distantly related subject are being pasted here.
This thread is about our Lumberjocks projects getting heisted into somebody else's website, without our knowledge, without our permission. Anything else is not germaine to the discussion, IMHO.
You can start a new thread if you wish to entertain new thoughts about cut-throat competitiveness in the crafts market. Why don't you?


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## cranbrook2 (May 28, 2006)

poopie i like how you make statements then delete them right after .


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

hazbro: Thanks for the update….and certain members here must acknowledge that our work is not getting properly attributed once it hits that other site. Of all people to get victimized, the Wood Whisperer? Jeez, when is this madness going to end?


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

Someone ask you way back why you did not post any projects and the answer is above so you should have not posted.
I am sorry about your problem I know you are right but things happen on the web it is open to all to look and copy.


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## hazbro (Mar 19, 2010)

Name Hugh Chapman
* Location San Leandro
* Web http://www.hughdi...
* Bio Wordpress Developer, Graphic Designer, Artist, Ballroom Dancer, Woodworking and Construction

18 Following 79 Followers 0 Listed


14,118Tweets

wonder if his dance moves are original.

Here's what we know about hughdidit.com:


"CHAPMAN, HUGH" owns about 2 other domains View these domains >
is a contact on the whois record of 3 domains
1 registrar has maintained records for this domain since 2000-08-03
This domain has changed name servers 2 times over 5 years.
Hosted on 66 IP addresses over 5 years.
View 14 ownership records archived since 2007-04-25 .

his site has bounced around a bit. it's going to bounce again. maybe in a day or two.


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

shopgurly…..nice to see you on, you have no problem you have nothing posted.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

In Maloof's time, the whole of society lived by much higher moral standards. In the 21st century, those of us whole still value and live by those standards are a small minority!!

This is not to say there were not thieves amongst us. In the late 60's for instance, the Big 3 started using a wiper delay circuit in their autos. The inventor wanted to license and to be paid for his invention, but they ignored him. He spent his life in couyrt. When in his 80s, he settled for a bit over $100,000. When asked why he didn't go for what he was owed, he said he had been in court most of his life and would die before he collected any money.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, hazbro! Thanks, shopguryl. Don't let the 'loyal opposition' get you down.
Let's all wait and see what response Martin gets from that other site…and take it from there.
And be sure to keep our comments about it factual and objective.


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## hazbro (Mar 19, 2010)

this guy does everything.


Call Hugh Now
For A Free Estimate
800-977-7042
Hugh Chapman
Hugh Chapman

Are You at Risk from
'Insurance Gaps?'

Do you have enough insurance to meet you and your family's needs - now and in the future? If you don't, you are putting yourself at risk of serious financial trouble if something goes wrong with your health, your home, your job or your finances.

That's why I am offering you a free, no-obligation "Insurance Check-up" to make sure your insurance needs are adequately covered. I'll give you an honest assessment of your current insurance status and make recommendations to fit your budget and your need.

Give my office a call at 800-977-7042 to arrange an appointment for a no-fuss, professional consultation.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, Topa!
There are lots of stories like that, about big corporations crushing the little guy! It just seems like ethical practices are a thing of the past. But who woulda thunk it, a free site like this could still be victimized, along with it's contributing members? Cripes, most of us here aren't even swimming with the sharks, and we still have to guard ourselves…..sheesh.


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## hazbro (Mar 19, 2010)

poopkat: https://www.google.com/adsense/support/bin/answer.py?answer=146178

Digital Millennium Copyright Act - Google AdSense
Print

It is our policy to respond to clear notices of alleged copyright infringement. This page describes the information that should be present in these notices. It is designed to make submitting notices of alleged infringement to Google as straightforward as possible while reducing the number of notices that we receive that are fraudulent or difficult to understand or verify. The form of notice specified below is consistent with the form suggested by the United States Digital Millennium Copyright Act (the text of which can be found at the U.S. Copyright Office Web Site, http://www.copyright.gov) but we will respond to notices of this form from other jurisdictions as well.

you can report your work on his site. google will pull his ad money. woodwhisperer can report too


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## PG_Zac (Feb 14, 2009)

.
Take the LJ Integrity Pledge


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

PGZac:
If you think that some sort of fascist ideology will improve the safety and security of Lumberjock members, then the cure is worse than the disease. 
Did you miss the point of all of this? *We are woodworking enthusiasts joined by our collective identity, and we've been plundered of our intellectual property by an outsider*!
I don't know what your "Integrity Pledge" has to do with unethical webmasters, and it is wrong-headed to try and saddle us with some totally unenforceable, completely unworkable concept. I think of all the cutting board makers for example…all adapting the current ideas and designs that each other is using. You want to make them all criminals or something? For that matter, is this "Integrity Pledge" retro-active? Oh, and stop making jokes about mental illness. I may be schizophrenic, but at least I have each other. Not a very sensitive tagline.


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## PG_Zac (Feb 14, 2009)

Hey Poopiekat - you obviously missed my point completely. I wholly agree that what Hugh has done / is doing is completely unethical.

The pledge is merely a personal statement of honor and is absolutely voluntary. It is nowhere near fascist and is not intended to protect LJ members, it is just a way for LJ members to publicly voice their own personal ethics. Nobody is required to take the pledge if they don't wish to.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

NOT taking the pledge infers dishonesty. Lack of ethics. Maybe even some animosity towards forum members who know they don't need to take a pledge to do whats right. In my opinion the pledge is childish.


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## Padre (Nov 5, 2008)

BIG SIGH: It is amazing to me how this thread has digressed into an argument. Poopiekat tried to do something honorable by bringing us knowledge that *OUR* projects, pictures, ideas, words and hard work (not just poopiekat's) were/are being ripped off and posted on the net as the work of someone else.

It doesn't have to degenerate into name calling, bringing up old wounds, etc. Let's respect what Poopiekat has done by bringing our attention to something vile in our midst.


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## BOB67CAM (Dec 28, 2009)

ok i had to throw this up, just for the irony, on his blog he has about a 45 paragraph blog about how bank of america is bad and evil and caused the financial meltdown, then right under that is an ad for none other then, yea bank of america..lol
regardless there is a few things u can do 1 main thing was mentioned by sras, and yea it sux but theres really no way around it, but u can also bring down the opacity a bit so its not so in your face with any photoshop other then MS paint thats the main easiest and most effective way and will give you protection no matter what 
the 2nd would only solve a lil of the issue and i dont think LJ.com either A) cares enuff, B) knows how, or C) are just to lazy 
dont get me wrong because i love this site, but from what ive gathered trying to touch base with them is very unforthecoming and the feeling i get is that altho they run the site i dont think they have too much in the way of dev + coding even tho this would be a simple backend 3 click job
basicly to keep them from streaming or linking to LJ.com would take 30 seconds and it would be as simple as typing in a number ex. 192.168.1.1 or a DNS ex NS2.SITEGROUND237.COM and block it
o and as a note to getned there is a couple very simple easy ways around the copywright protection you speak of which is A) right-click twice for bad coding, and B) is take a screenshot and just cut out the pic in even MS paint
plain and simple the only way you can compleytely protect your pics is to watermark them as sras mentioned and just make them a bit more opaque as this basily makes removal of the watermark way to tedious to do effectively without spending 2 days in photoshop and rather then them jumping off that boat theyd just wander off and find a different pic to steal
my biggest concern is….WHY DIDNT HE STEAL ANY OF MINE!?...lol
anyways good luck everyone and sad but true, if u dont want it stolen, either do a watermark, dont post it, or do really crappy projects and let them steal mine..lmao


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

I think it is hilarious that people honestly seem depressed when they go look and see they WEREN'T plagiarized!

"What, I am not good enough to steal from?" ..."Humph"


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

Unfortunately, this happens allot in the real world. I work for an engineering firm as a drafter, and we bid a huge access/security job for a large electric power company here in the state. I did a detailed presentation with rendered diagrams of all the options, detailed 3D walk through of a typical site, and a powerpoint presentation of the whole job. We didn't get the job but about two months later the contractor that did win the bid wanted to use us a a sub contractor to do some of the work. The sales rep came over to my cube and handed me back most of the drawings and details that I had done, although the quality was not as good, as they had been photocopied multiple times. He said the winning bidder was given ALL of my drawings and details by the electric company as a representative package of what they wanted done and how they wanted it to look! So needless to say we now imprint everything with a disclaimer that it cant be re used..especially "for bid" documents….not like that will stop them! I was mad and flattered at the same time!


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## pommy (Apr 17, 2008)

can i take the 5th on the pledge thing as said b4 the internet is free so people will exploit it and other user's so stop gettibg your nickers in a twist


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I just made the comment he isn't just taking the feed and putting everything out. I haven't got anything on here worth plagiarizing  except maybe my RV canned goods shelf. It works great as long as it is secured before you move. All /*&$ breaks loose if teh doors are just closed ) )


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Brad_Nailor, My nephew who is a project manager for an electrical contractor had a similar thing happen to him. The low bidder had the nerve to call and ask how to do the job!!

A friend of mine at a major manufacturer was ask by bis boss how to set up tooling to make a part. Their global partner couldn't figure it out. Needless to say my freind forgot how he had done it )


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

pommy, I'm with you on pledges. I very seldom even bother to read teh rules of the road, I live by standards that are higher than anything that can be reduced to print.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*Abbott, Padre, and Topa*...thanks for your words of encouragement!! I'm hoping Martin follows up on this scraping issue. As has happened on other threads, there are the callous few who make it known that if it's not their problem, then it shouldn't be anybody's. These people clearly are the ones on whom you cannot look to for support for anything other than what affects THEM personally, because they cannot see beyond the end of their own nose. We know who they are!!! And I could have predicted this outcome at the get-go. People who take their projects seriously, put in lots of effort when they present their projects here, write eloquent text when explaining details of their work, they all feel the anger and disillusion of getting their good work ripped off and presented as somebody else's. Yea, as I said above, it depends on whose ox is getting gored. *Brad:* I feel your pain, too. When I had an architect draw up plans for a 1700 sf Cape Cod home on my waterfront land, based on my sketches, two different contractors wrote me quotes…and built homes elsewhere precisely to my specs on the plans they refused to return to me, one of which was built in plain view of my property. 
People who are too stunned to understand and appreciate ethical behavior are not expected to empathize.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Nice of you to donate the architectual work to them, poopiekat. Seems like the architect would want a pice of any action against the thieves.


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## cranbrook2 (May 28, 2006)

Considering some of the beautiful work on this forum Poopie i think the guy was doing you a favour anyway !


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*Topa*, the 'architect' only formalized my 1/4" scale plans with proper annotations, and I paid him his fee for turning my scale drawings into legitimate blueprints. Behold for a minute, how smart would it have been to build an upscale house on my land when there is a twin to it already under construction 600 feet away and in full view of my property. What should I have done, posted a sign by my driveway stating that the other house was built from my prints? If I was simply clueless, I'd be getting a swelled head over people stealing all of my creative talents and passing it off as their own. In a perverse sort of way, it does tell me how great my work is. (tongue in Cheek)....in fact, if that chump made a 'gallery' of good woodworking creations he culled from the net, along with proper attribution, I'd have very little problem with that. it's just this Ethics thing that is the biggest nut to crack. It's illegal, what he's doing.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Some people do not have any ethics. What else can you say? It isn't worth going after them in court and poking a .45 up their nose and telling them to straighten up is socially unacceptable in this day and age. (The criminals running the financial system would be in big trouble if that were to change; however, it did bring civilization to Beaverhead County, MT in the late 19th century ;-)) ) ) Just the way it is in the 21st century, I guess??


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## Gary (Jul 24, 2006)

Folks, we all need to slow down a bit.

Here's what I now believe he's doing:
He's got a program which basically crawls the web looking for certain types of places and his program automatically includes what it finds in his web page.
It "looks" like he's claiming credit for the work because the info he's ingesting is written 1st person (I did this, I did that, next I did this, ad infinitum).
Each project has a title which doesn't look like a hyperlink but it is.
In other words, the title to each project is a link back to the original post.
And, when the link is followed, it becomes clear the text and pictures showing up on his page are just embedded inclusions from other pages.

When looked at in this light, it's not so bad. I looks a lot worse than it is.

Hugh and I have had one email conversation since his website came to light and I expect he's going to work to rectify the image he's created.
His original reply to me indicated he wasn't trying to claim the work of others as his own.


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## mikedrums (Feb 1, 2010)

To me, it never was an issue of him taking credit for the work.

The issue is his financial gain from the work/property of Lumberjocks.com and its creator/owner/whatever. 
The ads on that Hugh guy's page generates revenue for him based on hits. When someone searches for something and they click on his site to see it, he's gets credit for a hit… even if his links send the person over LJ's.

That's unethical, no matter how you spin it.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

"If you think that some sort of fascist ideology will improve the safety and security of Lumberjock members, then the cure is worse than the disease. "



> ?


This isn't a legal contract, folks.

Nobody has to have it evaluated by their attorney or accountant for legal and/or tax sufficiency/implications.

It was an *idea *… made with the best of intentions … and whose *spirit *I agree with.

I thank those who have already commented about the direction the tone has taken, on this one, by the minority of posters.

Personally, I don't see any harm in reminding one's young children to "be nice," or reminding ourselves and each other to be ethical.

Incidentally, I happen to like pie. Actually, I happen to love it-especially cherry pie with a scoop of French vanilla right smack dab on the top of it.

Yum.

As you were….


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

I figure that LJ is public.
If anyone want to copy what I publish,be my guess and feel free.
If I don't want it to be copied, I keep it for myself.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

For cripes sake, Gary, let's not sugar-coat this!
Should I not have spoken for myself and other aggrieved Lumberjocks about this? Should I have not brought this to Martin's attention as this pirate steals from us? Can't you at leat put yourself in my shoes for a minute, having been informed by a friend that he saw my good project listed in a completely different website? Wouldn't you wonder why you were not asked permission before your project or blog gets turned into a stranger's cash cow? In your email conversation, did he sell you the Brooklyn Bridge too? Do us a favor…don't bother trying to be the advocate for us here…I don't think you're doing a very good job, if all you want to do is make nice with him. He should delete ALL ill-gotten gains from his website, and start fresh with his own material that he himself generates.
And just for the record, I'd be happy to hear of any Lumberjocks who wish to make a spiral ornamental lathe as I did in the project post that was imported to his site. They'd have my full support. But steal from me? *NFW.*


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*nbeener*, Hmmm I think that 'fascist' remark I made was relevant to, and posted in, a thread about taking a "pledge" and has no relevance here. Though I do appreciate your insights earlier in this thread!
*b2rtch:* Your superficial worldview is legendary by now. When you get to a point where your output becomes valuable to a thief, let me know if it hurts or not, okay? If you cannot behold the difference between reading somebody's words, and having those words stolen for somebody else's profit, then you need not read (or write) further in this thread.
I'm just glad that there are still a few people with sack, integrity, and moral rectitude who have graciously come forward in solidarity with me on this issue. Thank You!


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

So … you and *b2rtch* have a different opinion, so now YOU believe that he should refrain from speaking any more on the topic??

Interesting.

I think you should consider abandoning future use of words that describe various political systems. There's too little accuracy … and … too much irony … when you do ;-)

I posted and addressed the 'fascist' remark on both threads. They are, or should be, conjoined twins.

I'm also very impressed with how you characterized those in agreement with YOU as having "sack, integrity, and moral rectitude."

Ya' know … *poopiekat* ... when you brought up the actions of Hugh Chapman-unethical and regrettable-I agreed with you.

But … generally … your advocacy of positions seems, to me, far more likely to lead people to DISAGREE, than to AGREE with you.

Just my $0.02. YMMV. Professional Driver. Closed Course. Do not try any of this at home. Pat Pending. Prices may vary in AK and HI….


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I'm with you on this *Poopiekat*. I work in the computer software business … we put up with this kind of crap (Hugh Chapman's website) all of the time.

Our lawyers had us put copyright notices on every picture and every page of our website, but that doesn't deter some people … they figure that if it is on the web, they can just ignore anybody's property, intellectual, or creative rights. I call it what it is … stealing.

Demo (limited) versions of our software are available for download along with the documentation for our products. We caught some jerk who was packaging a CD-ROM with our software on it and selling it for $99 with instructions to contact us for license activation. *NFW*! My boss talked to our lawyers about it, and it was decided that our legal costs would be huge, with no guarantee of ever receiving a judgment (this guy is located on some island in the Caribbean), so the boss didn't pursue it. Sigh.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Lol, no *Beener*, the Harbor freight guy just likes to annoy, like a mosquito. Mostly because I was amused by a tool review he did on a machine he had never owned or operated before. So that was a bit of mosquito repellent, psssssst, and you and I both know how well they work. I had a thread here once, about how we are a divergent bunch here, tied by our singular common interest, and the profanity and hatred that came back to me ultimately got the thread removed, so I understand what you say. People can go into meltdown at the sight of objective words, for sure! (This thread generated 2700 hits for the LJ site, BTW. glad to help!)
*The Dane*: Thanks for the insight! I just had no idea how rampant this problem really is! I wonder what progress Martin has made on this; but I'm kinda feeling like this is going to part of everyone's new reality.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Poopiekat,
I often noticed that you cannot suffer having any one disagree with you and that you have a need to insult and to try to hurt other people, I wonder why. 
I wonder what might be wrong with you.
I was told in the past to just ignore your posts, this what I shall do in the future.
Shalom


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

Simple enough, send a DMCA takedown request to the thieves ISP / web host asserting your copyright. However you MUST have copyright over the material in question…


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## kennyd (Mar 9, 2010)

Not trying to throw gas on a fire here but how would you feel if your images ended up in a "stock" photo collection? They're sold to all kinds of publications and someone makes $$ from them.

Just my 2 cents.

Kenny


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Kenny, The Internet is a wonderful tool, I use it all the day long, and I love it.
At the same time it changed the way we live, the way we communicate and the way we shop and so on (I shop probable 95% on the Internet). 
I do not promote stealing but in reality there is very little you can do about those who rob your property.
Believe it or not I teach the Bible to inmates by mail.
Very often I "borrow" pictures or texts on the Internet to illustrate my teaching. 
As much as o[possible I indicate my source and the name of the author but I really have no problem doing this. 
Those who take some else property to make a profit out of it really steal but what are you going to do about it?
If you publish something on the Internet it automatically become "public". 
There is no personal propety or privacy on the Internet. 
If you do not like it then stay away from the internet, 
I personally have no issue with it.

I personaly am not an Utopian but I do not conciser anything "mine" .Everything I posses was given to me and I have no problem if some one else take it from me . this person wilt have to give an account ,not me. 
I am at peace with it.
What Poopieka says is not wrong, what is wrong is Poopieka's attitude and the way Poopieka treat those who do not agree with him.
This guy needs help.


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## cstrang (Sep 22, 2009)

B2rich, in regards to your once you put it on the internet comment I will direct you to my above comment, it basically states even though this information is made public it is not in public domain. The images I post here as well as on my personal web site are mine, I legally own the copyright and others have to ask my permission before that can use them on another site or in print


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## Padre (Nov 5, 2008)

B2rtch said "If you publish something on the Internet it automatically become "public".
There is no personal propety or privacy on the Internet.
If you do not like it then stay away from the internet,
I personally have no issue with it."

I heartily disagree with this statement. If someone puts it on the internet, it becomes public, yes, but there definitely IS personal property on the net. Putting it on the internet does not make anything public property. For instance, my personal website has a logo on it that I paid for. I own the copyright. No one else owns the copyright and no one else has the legal authority to use it. Period.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

" For instance, my personal website has a logo on it that I paid for. I own the copyright. No one else owns the copyright and no one else has the legal authority to use it. Period."

I understand that and I agree but if someone else decide to use your logo what are you going to do about it?
Legally your logo is private but for all practical purpose it is public. 
The vast majority of hackers are not in the US but in Russia and in China, are you going to sue someone in China who uses your logo? Good luck.
Many government encourage hacking US websites and encourage pirating US information, what can you do about it. Even our government is helpless in this situation.

That you like it or not , the Internet is lawless.


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## cstrang (Sep 22, 2009)

"the Internet is lawless"

the internet is far from lawless, some internet laws may be somewhat difficult to enforce but they are there none the less and there are advances being made in internet law enforcement.


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## shopdog (Nov 9, 2008)

I don't know if my projects are on his website, but photos of decks and pergolas from my website have been used many times…using my bandwidth. I get charged for transfers that exceed 1 gig per month, so this practice costs me money. I can see the referring domain names when I check my statistics. I go to the URL, and there's a photo of a project that I built.
Not too long ago, I saw a reference to a craigslist page. I went there and this realtor was selling a top floor apartment, and he showed a roofdeck of mine that was supposed to be on the roof. My deck was on a roof about a mile away. I added text to the photo, saying that he was a liar and that the deck wasn't on the roof. Still using my bandwidth, but at least I was having fun


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

All right, folks, I want to wrap this up. 
The astute reader will notice that those who stand on my side of this issue are the ones who either have been victimized by either the aforementioned webmaster, experienced a theft of intellectual property, or have sound knowledge of internet laws and protection. Then there are those people who mystify me with their blatant dismissal of the fact that unethical behavior is no big deal, because they are not feeling it personally. I know I can't rally everyone, much less convince certain people, that unethical behavior against the Lumberjock community must be exposed. I'm not surprised that there are members among us who see no personal benefit in standing united about this. As I said, it depends on whose ox is being gored. Though, there must be some gratuitous enjoyment in getting your dismissive or nebulous posts in this otherwise cogent discussion.
Thanks again to all the people who did the research, brought their views forward, and felt the pain with me. Perhaps those who sought their kicks by contradicting the truth here will gain some introspection into their own souls. Save the left side of your brain for your woodworking projects… and the right side for objective cognition. Let's stand behind our Moderators in solidarity!


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## cranbrook2 (May 28, 2006)

Just think of all the free advertising you got poopie !! , Nice work !!


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

john said, "*Just think of all the free advertising you got poopie !! , Nice work !!*
Oh, there you are again, john…I need no advertising, BTW, I am not in the trade and prefer to be the shop-rat that I am, quietly pursuing my craft, making nice stuff and avoiding the limelight. But thanks for once again illustrating my point about 'nebulous'.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

*b2rch* - I agree with your perspective that we are all entitled to have our opinions and should be civilized about it.

however, to contradict your point of "everything that is put on the internet becomes public" heres an example: FineWoodworking.com is publishing their magazines online for their subscribers. as a subscribe you can download the articles from the monthly magazine as a PDF file and read it at your leisure - BUT , if you'll upload it online to a 'shared' location and let people download it freely - you'll quickly get contacted by FWW asking you to take that off. it is still their property, and even though the subscriber has access to it - it is illegal to share it with anyone else.


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## Mogebier (Feb 4, 2010)

"All right, folks, I want to wrap this up. " 
No you don't.
You are an Internet Whiner. Really. You like to stir the pot, but not in a good way. You will keep this thread going and going and going and going…
"....avoiding the limelight…." 
Again, no. You enjoy the fact that people are posting in this thread. Like me. If you go back and look through your posts, b3rtch is correct - you really Can't stand people who disagree with you. I expect some slight insult from you to me in a reply, assuming you even reply to my points.
In your mind, you are still living in a time where there was no Internet and I think you were genuinely surprised when you posted your gripe and a lot of us people on here didn't really care. Come to 2010. Realize that people with your views on things are called n00bs on the Web. Seriously, just get over it. You will never, ever, ever, do anything to this scumbag who is stealing stuff. No lawyer is going to care, because you are just some hobbyist on some site. There is no way the Admin on here can do anything about it either, in the long run.
The Interweb is a scary place, with scary people. If you don't learn things, you will tick off the wrong sort. Those kind of people LIVE to make people miserable using the anonymity of the Interwebs. Just some advise.


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## JAGWAH (Dec 15, 2009)

Know matter what side anyone here takes I have to say Poopie your remark,"avoiding the limelight," is funny.
None of us would be here if we didn't want a little bit of limelight.

Like me now…(basking in a moment of limelight).


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## North40 (Oct 17, 2007)

I really don't have anything to add to the conversation, but I like to argue so I will hurl personal insults and try to disguise them as intelligent discussion.

Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.


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## Mogebier (Feb 4, 2010)

Badger badger badger badger badger.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*Mission accomplished*. I wanted fellow LJs to be aware of the possibility that their projects might be posted on other sites without their knowledge. I trust we all have the ability to separate the subsequent wheat from the chaff as we see fit.


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## croessler (Jun 22, 2007)

Why is it called the "lime light"? whats wrong with the other fruits?


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

I would personally take it as a compliment?.........maybe.

A customer of mine was approached by a very popular magazine to have his home featured in a magazine to which he agreed. When they got there, photos taken etc he realized that he had been misled and the pictures were really going to be an "Advertisment" in the magazine. He told me that he looked at "designer" and said "Moron made the fireplace, the built ins, the furniture, the ceiling, I picked the paint and YOU made me a cushion that didnt fit"...........he then looked at me and said "At some point we realize who adds value to our lives". The magazine is out and a full page ad, with my work, but her name…...I get a few free ads because of the "mistake" plagerism…......cool eh !

Money talks, BS walks…......very easy to talk the walk, very hard to walk the talk and the following story sums it up for me.

A crow is on the ground looking up a tree when a bull walks by and says "What are you doing?".

The crow says "I'm trying to find a way to the top of that tree" 
The bull says "Thats easy, just eat a little bit of my manure and soon you will fly to the top of the tree"

Every day the crow eats some manure and eventually the crow is sitting at the top of the tree when the farmer comes out, sees the crow and shoots it dead.

Moral of the story

Bull******************** might get you to the top of the tree but it wont keep you there for long


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

Overall it's a raw deal to have your stuff posted up on somebody's site and claimed to be built by someone other then yourself. I doubt much more can be done about it then was done here.

The Internet "being lawful" is pretty much only for those with the desire and dollars to try and enforce the scant protections that are available. The laws really only effect the lawful, the majority on the Interweb does as it pleases which leaves me thinking of a famous poem;

Come and get copper.
Im here ready for ya
Im waiting
Come and get me
Ill roast ya on a spit fire.
Come on come and get me.

I dont like you pig
Im here waiting.
Take me down the farm.
Ill give ya a 1 way ticket
To the abiotrue.
And next week
Youll be on my plate
Im here waiting
Come on come and get me.
I ve got me knife and fork ready
Come and get me
Im waiting

*Amy Kerswell *


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

Plagiarism? Piracy?

http://www.finewoodworking.com/shop-tour


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## Gregn (Mar 26, 2010)

I for one joined LumberJocks to be a part of this site. I have been looking at this site for a while before joining. But to post things I haven't become a member of on another site is wrong. I know I for one will question Woodcraft as being a contributor and let them know that I will no longer buy from them if they support his site and until they get their name removed from his site. I'll spend my money else where. I'm fortunate enough to have a Woodcraft store within 70 miles of me and if I can't wait I go there. But not anymore. I can take my money anywhere and I know places like Woodcraft don't like to lose business over things like this. I've also boycotted places like Sears and Wal-mart because of bad business practices and don't miss them. I'm sure other contributors will hate losing business to competitors over things like this. Grizzly found out real quick how fast money could walk out the door. When they didn't have certain items in stock when I went to their store in Springfield. I told them you advertise this stuff. When they realized $2000.00 was about to walk out of their store it was amazing how fast they came up with what I wanted. I don't mind sharing,I just like to be asked before someone just takes it for granted its okay. Like the old saying goes money talks and BS walks. I'm sure LumberJocks didn't agree to be one of his contributors. Links to other sites isn't the problem its the stealing for your own site that's the problem. He's probably some office shmock who shoots his mouth off at the bar about what he's doing.


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## GlenGuarino (Feb 23, 2010)

Hi,

I am Marie Glen's wife and I handle his business for him. I read through the entire discussion & you all make very good points. Glen is at a meeting & if I may, I would like to offer my 2cents. Taking someone's design is a big problem. We attended several seminars given by attorneys. Basically they said:
1. Yes you can copyright your design. 
2. Problem is that someone need only change one part to call it their own.
3. As the owner of original design, you can seek legal action, which can be costly & time consuming.

Certainly if a website wants to show someone's artwork, they should seek permission first. However, I can say that 
that doesn't seem to happen very often.

For someone doing new designs all the time, getting a copyright for each design would be very costly.

So what to do??? I am not sure, if anyone finds a good solution, let me know! For now, I google Glen's name every so often to see what sites pick him up. Glen taught at the high school level for years & now is at WPU teaching furniture design. He always helps students design furniture & enjoys working with people who want to design. If someone wanted help in designing something he would help them develop their idea. To take someone's work was wrong when we were kids in school & it is still wrong. Sorry if I sound too much like a teacher.

Lumberjocks has good visibility because all you folks are active, Glen & I think that is a good thing. The more the general public sees that furniture making is an art and that people love doing it the better. *However, to take someone's thoughts,,designs… is totally & completely wrong. *

The site doesn't seem to be up http://workshop.hughdidit.com/ is not coming up.

Marie


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, Marie and Glen, for your concern. I'm grateful for all of the coherent, thoughtful replies to my original post. Yes, I'm afraid I have to admit to naivete about this whole abhorrent practice of lifting someones post from one site and placing it, in its entirety, in their own site. I posted that spiral lathe project for the enjoyment of other Lumberjocks, who may be inspired to make one of their own. My blog even clearly stated that I'd be willing to assist anyone who had questions. BUT… that's where my generosity ends. I was a bit confounded by the reactions of a few who saw no harm done, no offense committed, and not one shred of empathy. However, I was pleased with the overwhelming response from people with good information about copyright law, internet policies enforcement, and even similar war stories of getting your intellectual property stolen right from under you. I never heard back from Martin, except for him to say he would contact this individual about scraping RSS feeds, and I'm really not sure where he stands on the issue. I will watermark my pics from now on, and make my texts searchable through Google to periodically monitor where my stuff might be ending up. Again, Marie, thank You for taking the time to write. His site not coming up is good news indeed!


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## BobG (Apr 17, 2010)

Wow what did I join? I'm sure going to think twice at least before I put any pictures on here. I found this site yesterday and have scanned through about 10%, 20%, maybe 90% and ran across this thread. Sounds to me like oll Hugie did it alright. Made fools out of some of the nicest people! By the way, the website is still active just the workshop portion is down for some reason. Try "hughchapman.com" You'll get him.

Lets get back to woodworking, as far as copyright theft, it's only worth the paper it's written on. Just about as much as a patent (unless you have deep pockets).

I hold 5 patents and all that has to be done is make a change that amounts to a 15% difference, and they are free and clear! I once had one of them duplicated, went to an attorney that specializes in patent law, was told that I had to put out a 10,000 dollar deposit and when 5,000 dollars of it was used, i would be billed for another 10,000 so that he always had at least 10.000 dollars on deposit to work with. I decided it wasn't worth it if all one had to do was a 15% change.

I have a website that part of the agreement is that if I use material from someone else that I make reference to the original owner.

Hey poopiekat someone else made a made a lathe ribbing machine, craftsman, they called it a "Router crafter" it was used on a lathe after you turned the spindle you wanted , you set up the router crafter for what ever design you wanted and crank it back and forth. It would cut ribs, diamonds and just about any design you could dream up on that spindle! There is a guy that markets one similar for pen turners.

Have a great day and may you find the wood working gods front tooth! It's made of Ivory!

BobG


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## GlenGuarino (Feb 23, 2010)

Hi BobG

I am not a Lumberjock, I work with my husband Glen who joined recently. Don't let this turn you away from Lumberjocks & a nice group of people who share a common interest of woodworking.

Marie


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Hi, BobG!
Though I realize you are new here, you are indeed not the first to poke me in the eye about my spiral ornamental lathe. But have you ever seen one built from salvaged parts? First see what my lathe is all about, *then* tell me what you think. And why not share some of your home-built machinery projects too, while you're at it. Go here: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/29458 I'm mystified as to why you would lament the theft of YOUR ideas, while trying to pull the rug out from under me for my own inventive tinkering. Man, I could write a book. Now can we let this thread fade into the back pages ? As I said above: *Mission Accomplished.*


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## BobG (Apr 17, 2010)

!/Users/Bob G/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Originals/2010/Apr 19, 20102/1000217.JPG!Poopiekat, I have to apologize, I did not mean to come across as if I were ridiculing your project. I would never assume to throw water on someone-else's pride. I just thought that you might like to know that other people thought it was a worthwhile project also.

The one for Sears and sawbuck was discontinued in the late 1980's. i happened to be in a Sears outlet store in Pittsburgh, PA. and came across one at a very much discounted price along with a Copy crafter that was also discontinued. Bought them both, $75.00 for both of them. I haven't opened either box yet,bought them with good intentions but circumstances change and well, stuff happens. So now I'm divorced from that lady. Same old story she got the palace I got the shaft. Long story it took 2 years, and the judge finally signed the ex's name on the papers.

As for my home crafted projects while I lived in Michigan I made and sold 12 Roll top desks along with a few room divider picture gallery's. Built the cabinets in her kitchen. The ex kept all my pictures and most of my patterns. I could have gone back to court to get them but sometimes it is just better to let things go and get freedom over stuff!

Again poopiekat I did not mean anything derogatory!

Keep making saw dust.
BobG


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## papabear (Mar 28, 2009)

The link to the script (posted earlier by getneds) works to prevent the average person from right clicking and saving.

It does not eliminate the direct copy of pictures. If you use the 'view the source' in IE and any other browser that supports it, you can copy the link to the picture into your browser, open the page, right click and save the file from there.

It is definitly a deterant and creates little more work for someone looking to quickly save pictures.


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