# Cracks in oak table top - What would you do?



## chelmick (Feb 20, 2020)

Hey guys! The name is Chase and I am posting on the Lumber Jocks website for the first time today seeking some advice. I have been woodworking for a couple years now as a hobby and the majority of my builds have been things like coffee tables made from doug fir or credenzas and nightstands made from baltic birch. So I guess I would say nothing too big or complicated to date.

Recently I was asked to build a custom dining table and I wanted to use this as an opportunity to really challenge myself as a woodworker and take my skills to the next level. I came up with this oval dining table that I was going to build with red oak.



















I went to my local supplier to get the wood, which they claim is kiln dried to 6-8% mc and personally examined to meet quality standards - if they wouldn't use it, they wouldn't sell it. I don"t have a mc meter, but I did visually inspect every board looking for obvious things like cracks, knots, warping and everything looked good to me.

I let the wood sit at my place for a few days and acclimate before I did anything with it. After a few days I did an initial milling of the wood, stickered it and let it sit for another day or two before milling to the final dimensions. Still, at this point everything looked good to me so I glued them up into two smaller panels before gluing them up into one large panel which was about 66"L x 44"W x 1"T.



















At this point I was ready cut my first oval. I was nervous, but I welcomed the challenge and for the most part it came out great. It looked great, but this was when I started to realized that something was wrong and that brings me to where I am stuck at today.










After cutting the oval I noticed that one of the boards had a crack at each end on the underside of the table top. At the surface they don't appear to be very big, I got this far and had no idea that they were even they. The cracks do not go through the top and are not visible from the top side.

This is the first crack and the ones that appears to me to be more severe. It looks like it is a little over half an inch deep and extends maybe 10 inches into the table, but it is very hard to tell. When viewed in the low-raking light the extent of it becomes more apparent.




























This crack is on the other end of the same board and appears to be the same depth, but only extends a few inches in to the board.



















At this point I am not sure what to do. I know for certain that I cannot deliver it to my customer in this condition knowing that the crack will likely get worse. What options do I have? Cutting that board out and replacing it with a new one would be very difficult and in my opinion is very risky - I would like to save this board if possible.

The two options that I can think of are:
1. Using my router and a straight edge to cut a dado that would at best case remove the cracks or at worst case show that the cracks are even worse than I thought. I would then mill a piece of identical wood to fill in the dado. It would not look great, but this is the underside and if I can remove the cracks then they cannot continue to grow.

2.Try to do something with epoxy. My biggest concern is that my customer wants a dark stain on the table and I do not believe the epoxy would allow the wood to take the stain. The other concern is that the cracks are so small right now that it would be difficult to get the epoxy to completely penetrate the cracks.

I feel very defeated with this project right now and it is times like these that I question woodworking. Getting the top milled, glued up, and cut into an oval was a huge accomplishment for me and now here I am out a good chunk of money with a top that I do not want to deliver to my customer as it sits. I am hoping that maybe someone has dealt with this before and can offer some advice or words of encouragement.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

There is a product that people seem to like a lot called Milliput. It is epoxy putty that comes in a variety of colors. Never used it but folks seem to like it.

Otherwise, some kind of thinner epoxy resin like Total Boat or West System to penetrate and fill the crack. If you're worried about the crack getting bigger you could always put a bow tie inlay on the bottom.


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## LesB (Dec 21, 2008)

First, you say the cracks are in the same board; do they line up so you could saw them out in one pass of the saw? Then you could glue the board back together.

If it were mine the first thing I would do is treat the cracks with CA glue. It not only fills the crack it bonds the two sides together; something epoxy putty may not do. The medium thick type would do the job because it cures fairly slowly which allows it to seep into the crack. Just keep adding more until it the crack slightly over fills. When is sets up just sand it flat. With a crack that small I doubt it will be noticeable even in a dark stain but there are colored CA glues (usually black or brown) available, Amazon sells some. You could also put the stain on first then add the glue, the clear glue would transmit the color of the stain. I really think this will solve your problem and stop the cracks from developing further with the caveat that if the table is exposed to extremes in humidity nothing wil stop the wood from moving and possibly cracking.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

Is the top attached to the base?


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## avsmusic1 (Jul 10, 2016)

I'm with LesB on CA to treat it as is, and i'd go about it exactly how he suggests.

I'm guessing the crack was there in the board and you may have just never noticed it when it was rough sawn. It's unfortunate that it landed on the end of one of the boards and that, coupled with the fact it's milled down, may be why you're noticing it now. If that is the case, it may not be something born of moisture shifts since you've purchased it and therefore may not grow substantially if taken care of now.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

Good ideas. My main reason for not suggesting CA is because CA won't address the buggered up end of the table and CA has very poor shear strength so if the wood is still moving it may not have the strength to hold it together like epoxy resin or a butterfly would.


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## chelmick (Feb 20, 2020)

> There is a product that people seem to like a lot called Milliput. It is epoxy putty that comes in a variety of colors. Never used it but folks seem to like it.
> 
> Otherwise, some kind of thinner epoxy resin like Total Boat or West System to penetrate and fill the crack. If you re worried about the crack getting bigger you could always put a bow tie inlay on the bottom.
> 
> - Andybb


I have never done a bow tie inlay before, but I was thinking that the underside of this table would be a cool place to try it! I want to be as conservative as I can with this and it seems like using a combination of epoxy and bow ties might be the best way to do that.


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## chelmick (Feb 20, 2020)

> Is the top attached to the base?
> 
> - bondogaposis


I have not attached the top to the base yet, but I was going to use buttons to attach it.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

I suggest putting a butterfly on the *UNDERSIDE* of the table that *does not go all the way through* to show on the table top. Then use CA to fill in the crack.


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## chelmick (Feb 20, 2020)

> First, you say the cracks are in the same board; do they line up so you could saw them out in one pass of the saw? Then you could glue the board back together.


Unfortunately, the cracks do not line up. The other issue is that since this is oval shaped the two pieces would not line up properly if cut and glued back together due to the kerf of the saw.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

Personally, I'd avoid any cutting and gluing back together for the reasons you mentioned but that's just me.

I use this kit for butterfly work. One or 2 practices on some scrap and you're golden (as long as you have a router).










I know it can be done by hand but all of the ones I have done have been on the top so I wanted them to look good. You may not need to have them look perfect if it is on the bottom.


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## YankeeFan (Feb 10, 2020)

Hey Chase, nice job!!! I'm new to woodworking. What is that fixture for on top of the wood in the fourth pic from the top?. Also, in the photo with the router, what is that thingy called on the cord near the plug end. Thanks.


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## JackDuren (Oct 10, 2015)

We ran into those all the time when making 8/4 restauant tables. Best answer is to cut it out and glue back or to cut the crack out and fill in with an 1/8 piece. You will not beat it over time. Won't go away unless you remove it entirety. ...


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

Since this is a custom build for someone else, I would cut out that entire board and replace it, then recut the oval.

You sometimes see those kind of cracks in kiln dried lumber. I might be able to live with the fix and the chance the internal stresses will be completely counteracted by glue, but I wouldn't be happy about that kind of fix in a custom piece I commissioned.

Maybe the glue will work for 25 years, maybe it'll work for 2, maybe it won't work at all. When all is said and done, this is red oak, not macassar ebony.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

This is where having a accurate jointer and top shelf handplane skills come into play.
Rip the wood right at the crack and glue in a piece to make up the kerf of your blade.
I agree with Jack in his post those crack will not go away.
This should only set you back a couple hours. If you don't have the confidence or skills yet it so be it. It's good practice for the future. 
Good Luck


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Agree with Planeman, would butterfly both cracks and then fill the crack with CA or epoxy. Then play wait and see for a few weeks. If it cracks again, I'd replace that section and recut the oval.


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## chelmick (Feb 20, 2020)

> Hey Chase, nice job!!! I m new to woodworking. What is that fixture for on top of the wood in the fourth pic from the top?. Also, in the photo with the router, what is that thingy called on the cord near the plug end. Thanks.
> 
> - YankeeFan


That is a jig used to cut ovals with a router. Brian Benham has a pretty good video covering this on youtube. 
How To Build an Oval Cutting Jig

I am not sure what is on the cord, it came like that when I purchased it.


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## chelmick (Feb 20, 2020)

Cutting that board out, replacing it, and re-cutting the oval will be my last resort. It is the most complete solution, but it is also the most complicated and risky one. The two other options that I am weighing at this point are:

1. Putting a bow tie inlay on each end and then filling the cracks with ca glue or epoxy. I see large panels and slabs with much larger cracks and they are usually repaired this way. Is this not an acceptable solution in this case?

2. Cutting a dado on the back side of the table that is the length of the board and then filling in that dado with a new strip of wood. It would completely eliminate the crack without having to cut the top apart and re-cutting the oval. From the top side you would never even know that the crack was replaced.

I was also debating on whether I should tell my customer about this crack and the repair that I plan to make. My biggest fear is building this table and having a component of it fail. I would rather be up front with the customer and let them know what options I have been exploring and seeing what they would like to do.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

Why would that be a last option.
Red Oak is not that expensive what would that board cost you 10 or 15 dollars.
A bow tie just seems like it would just highlight the defect.

Good Luck


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

Let us know what you decide and how it turns out. Good luck.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

People on this forum recommended two different products that are really great: Timbermate filler, and hide glue (mainly because it doesn't leave white splotches where the finish doesn't take, although there are other advantages).

Rather than dealing with mixing and heating old-school hide glue, I bought a bottle of Titebond liquid hide glue. It's fabulous.

What I'd do is simply mix some of that with sawdust from your table and use it to fill the crack. Nobody will know - in fact they probably wouldn't know if you used regular wood glue (although you might need to disguise it with those crayon-like things).

That's if I were worried about the cracks continuing. More likely, I'd just use Timbermate filler.

Before I learned about Timbermate I used Plastic Wood, which is okay, but the Timbermate is much easier to deal with. It also blends very well (you can color it of you want, but I don't think you'll need to), and you just add water if it dries up.

I personally wouldn't bother with the butterfly. That seems like shooting down flies with an anti-aircraft gun to me.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

Of course, if you * want * to do the bow tie for fun, that's another story.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

Nothing wrong with the hide glue and sawdust technique if you're not worried about the crack continuing to move. If so, you can still inlay the butterfly into the underside just for peace of mind since it's a paying customer.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Minor cracks like that are a perfect place to use a hard fill. You can match the color exactly, and when it's done properly, even you will not be able to find the repair.

If the crack is progressing, I'd recommend securing it underneath. Something a simple as a 1/2" wide groove you can easily cut with a router and a spline glued in will lock that in place nicely.


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## bilyo (May 20, 2015)

I vote for the method of cutting a deep dado and filling it with a color/grain matched filler strip. Carefully done, your customer will never know it's there (but, tell him/her anyway). This technique will eliminate the cracks and assure (to the extent possible) no future cracking and won't affect the appearance of the top. Win win. With your router and a securely mounted straight edge, it shouldn't be beyond your skill level seeing what you have done so far.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

> I vote for the method of cutting a deep dado and filling it with a color/grain matched filler strip. Carefully done, your customer will never know it s there (but, tell him/her anyway). This technique will eliminate the cracks and assure (to the extent possible) no future cracking and won t affect the appearance of the top. Win win. With your router and a securely mounted straight edge, it shouldn t be beyond your skill level seeing what you have done so far.
> 
> - bilyo


That's something I've never thought of but that could be useful in the future. How wide of a bit would you use and would you square it off with a chisel?


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

So for a flaw of this size:










People are suggesting ripping out the board, cutting dados and bow ties? That's insane.

I don't know why I keep wasting my breath saying to learn proper touch-up techniques. There are a variety of fill products out there. Each has its place. I could do this repair in 5 minutes and I'd pay you $100 if you could find it.

The techniques are easy to learn. Ordinary hard fill is so simple. You melt the fill in and use a leveler to flatten it. Burn-ins are more challenging, but it's not rocket science. It just takes practice. Take the time to learn and you'll never waste your time with glue and sawdust again.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

yeah bow ties and ripping the boards and regluing,thats way over board,this is a simple crack for gods sake.id take rich's bet but he would win!


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

You also neglected to show the picture of the larger crack and divot in the bevel. It's a commissioned piece where the wood-red oak!-is displaying stress fractures on either end after doing routine machining. It's unclear whether that will continue.

If I ordered a piece of custom furniture and I got a table that was patched and/or bondo'd because they didn't want to spend the $20 at most on a stable piece of common hardwood, I'd be mad. The OP can do what he wants, and I guess it's up to the customer whether they like it, but to me if you're going to go into the custom furniture business, you can't be messing around with rinky dink patches and fillers on inexpensive woods.

You can tell the OP was maybe looking to blame the hardwood dealer for the post-machining fracturing of the wood. I understand. He paid for something supposedly of one quality grade, but ended up getting another. How is the customer supposed to feel?


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> You also neglected to show the picture of the larger crack and divot in the bevel.
> 
> - shampeon


Show me the photo. None of the images the OP posted warrant the over-the-top fixes being proposed. And no, I don't do bondo, so please don't insult me.

I have news for everyone… Furniture and cabinet installers carry touch-up kits with them. Crap happens sometimes. Do you throw it all away-or repair it? Hint: they repair it.

It's easy to get all holier-than-thou about delivering a flawless product, but that's not the real world.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> You also neglected to show the picture of the larger crack and divot in the bevel.
> 
> - shampeon
> 
> ...


ditto,one tiny crack doesn't mean tearing the whole piece apart or rebuilding.common sense is needed here,not a total rebuild for gods sake!!!


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

I'm insane and have no common sense, because I wouldn't hesitate to cut the board out and replace it. 
With that said, I also have both a lot of experience and machinery at my disposal to make it a pretty quick and simple task.
1-1/2 hours tops and it's back on track.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

> We ran into those all the time when making 8/4 restauant tables. Best answer is to cut it out and glue back or to cut the crack out and fill in with an 1/8 piece. You will not beat it over time. Won t go away unless you remove it entirety. ...
> 
> - JackDuren


Jack speaketh the truth. If this was a personal piece any of the remedies would be acceptable, but when you do it for money a permanent repair is more important.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

So it looks like you glued up 2 boards to get to the desire thickness? It looks like the crack does not penetrate the lower level so the glued layers could be the root cause. If one was wetter than the other or just has finer or just different grain orientation it may move differently than the other. If that happens, its gotta give somewhere. I am not sure that a butterfly will prevent further splitting unless it goes all the way through, though it may have split as much as it is going to. I would invest in a moisture meter to see just where the wood is now to be sure. You probably want a pinless one so you don't have pin holes to fill in the top. If you still have the cutoff that matches that spot, I would be curious to see if it has split as well.










Given all the options listed above, I would certainly try Rich's hard fill or burn in idea before cutting into it.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I m insane and have no common sense,
> 
> - Tony_S


I'm crazy. It's kept me from going insane. (sorry Waylon)


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## JackDuren (Oct 10, 2015)

I would hate to be asked to build a piece of furniture and sell it with a repaired crack hoping it wouldnt return only to find the customer calling me.

You found the problem early and that's great. Now how you address the problem will separate you from a craftsman and wood butcher…..


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## Fettler (Dec 6, 2012)

The cracks look like end grain checks or checking. During the drying process boards will check if the end grain loses moisture too fast. When purchasing lumber you have to be mindful of these checks as they typically expand a little further then the visible area. When you bring boards into the conditioned/heated space the checks can grow while the moisture content acclimated.

Normally if you have checks you could add a little extra wastage and be ok. At this point they could expand even further as long as the wood is unsealed. Filling voids with CA glue would Stop the expansion. Blending the defect requires a little creatively, maybe a little saw dust in the glue?


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

The worst crack is "half an inch deep and extends maybe 10 inches into the table". The opposite side of the same board has a crack of similar depth that runs a couple of inches in. The max length of the table is 66" (pre-oval). So like 20% of the board has developed a crack post-machining.

I'm not a furniture designer, but I've worked enough wood to know when you're dealing with a bad board.

Best of luck with this.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

> I don t know why I keep wasting my breath saying to learn proper touch-up techniques. There are a variety of fill products out there. Each has its place. I could do this repair in 5 minutes and I d pay you $100 if you could find it.
> 
> The techniques are easy to learn. Ordinary hard fill is so simple. You melt the fill in and use a leveler to flatten it. Burn-ins are more challenging, but it s not rocket science. It just takes practice. Take the time to learn and you ll never waste your time with glue and sawdust again.
> 
> - Rich


You're not *totally* wasting your breath (or fingers), because I've never heard of hard fill!

Why do you say glue and sawdust is a waste of time? Serious question, because I've done that and it worked very well!


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

I would start with filling the cracks with hide glue, then sand until a slurry fills up the cracks, and leave it at that. The same can be done with CA glue. The colour match will be perfect; and if it opens up again, you could try another option. Of course, the client should be informed.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> You re not *totally* wasting your breath (or fingers), because I ve never heard of hard fill!
> 
> Why do you say glue and sawdust is a waste of time? Serious question, because I ve done that and it worked very well!
> 
> - nickbatz


Let me start off by saying that, like everything else in the shop, there are many ways to correct a defect. It's only natural to gravitate towards what you're familiar with. If something like glue and sawdust works to your satisfaction, then I'm not going to say you're wrong. I don't want to come across like a snob, but there are more professional techniques that will product superior results.

So, what is hard fill? It's one of many fill products, each with its own properties that make it more or less suitable for a given situation. The putty sticks for example are great for filling nail holes and any other situation that doesn't require durability. At the top of the durability scale are burn-in sticks, but they take the most skill to work with. For starting out I recommend hard fill sticks. They are durable enough to use on a table top that gets used, but are very easy to work with and require the fewest tools. All you need is a means to melt the stick into the repair and a special leveler to remove the excess. After that, some top coat to seal it all off and blend it with the rest of the surface. The main challenge with them is color matching. For that, I've gone digital as described in this blog post.

If you want to learn more, Mohawk has videos on youtube that will explain in detail when and how to use each of their products. I highly recommend watching. Here is a link directly to their video on using hard fill sticks. It's a good place to start. And here's one on doing burn-ins where you can see how much more involved it is.

Finally, in order to achieve a repair that's undetectable, learning some graining techniques is often necessary.

These are all skills that are valuable to learn.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

Ah, okay. I actually do have some of those fill sticks (although I use them like crayons). They work very well, and they're all but unnoticeable when they're covered with oil-modified poly. Yeah, I draw in fake grain.

I also have putty, but I only use that for nail holes that are going to get painted over. The only reason I'd use glue/sawdust is if I thought that crack were going to expand. Otherwise I'd just use Timbermate - which I've also used to hide a lot of mistakes, but don't tell anyone.

Will look at the melt-on stuff and the other links. Thanks!


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