# Strangers in the Shop



## pete79 (Oct 20, 2009)

I just thought of this yesterday and can't get it out of my head. I sold a tool on craigslist to a stranger who is a carpenter by trade. To coordinate the deal, as many people would, I had him come to my house. When he arrived, I took him out to my shop to show him the tool and also to shoot the breeze about woodworking (I don't get to do that too often, so I took the opportunity).

Afterward, I got this sinking feeling about how I've now let a complete stranger basically inventory everything I have in my detached garage, and how easy it would be for someone to help themselves one evening. I don't know if this is a lesson learned, or just a vent to help with the sinking feeling that I had a lapse in judgment. I don't intend this to be a drawn out discussion on securing our workshops, but I am curious how other people handle these situations.


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## C_PLUS_Woodworker (Jun 10, 2010)

I feel the same way as do you.

And right next to our shop is all our tack room.

I have learned not to take folks into the shop, unless they are local and already know pretty much what would be out there. But, it's often hard to resist showing the shop and what's going on in there.

But, even then, you are taking your chances.

We discussed this several times, and have decided to keep a good video inventory along with an accurate listing of anything valued over 25 bucks…............ for insurance purposes.

Also, we have a closed circuit camera system in all three buildings and have plenty of signs saying "Smile".

It's too bad this is even a topic to worry about, but unfortunately, it is a legit and all too often concern.

Most folks are honest, but I know for as fact (in my gut) that I have had a couple of characters out here that were really just casing the place.


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## saddletramp (Mar 6, 2011)

I guess that I tend not to worry too much about this (worry gives you wrinkles and at my age I've got enough of those already) but then, I grew up in an era and an area where nobody even locked their doors. Heck, my folks never locked the house even when we went on vacation. I realize that times have changed but in spite of all he horror stories on the nightly news, I think that for the most part if you don't live in the inter city that you and your property are reasonably safe.

If you steal from me, what I have lost is replacable but what you have lost is gone forever.


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

I hear ya..I always get a little nervous when I sell something on Craigslist. I had a ladder rack for a full size pickup listed for over a year..and someone finally called on it. I usually would meet people at the local supermarket parking lot but I didn't feel like hauling all the parts out and then down to the store just for him to say he didn't want it, so I let him come to my house. I only let him in to my shed, but my shed is chock full of goodies like my Cub Cadet lawn tractor. When he showed up he was driving in a broken down pickup, and he was dressed like he lived in the truck. He bought the rack and paid me and was gone in 15 minutes, but i remember having the same feeling you did…but nothing ever happened. I also have purchased allot of my shop machinery off of Craigslist, and everyone I bought from never hesitated to walk me right through their homes or welcome me into their shops.


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## Gregn (Mar 26, 2010)

Don't feel to bad about letting your eagerness to share your passion override your sense to maintain a level of security. Think of it as a lesson learned from experience. Your not the only one to have done this. I remember making the same mistake when I was young and selling guns. I was fortunate that it was a cop that came to my apartment at the time. He was the one that brought this to my attention and told be to consider it a lesson learned about letting your guard down when selling items. I know sometimes its not easy to take and item to a local common location, that being the case keep it in the yard next time. That way your property can't be so easily inventoried for theft. *Bet you don't do that again. LOL *


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

This is why I don't sell on craig's list. It just isn't worth it.


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## RetiredCoastie (Sep 7, 2009)

Hey Pete don't feel alone. I've been having the same debate with myself. I've got 2 jointers that I never use and have thought of listing them on craigslist but I'm very leery of letting strangers in my shop. At some point you have to trust others but also trust your instincts and a gun displayed in plain site may be a deterrent.


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## saddletramp (Mar 6, 2011)

Whew, based on the responces so far, it appears that I am way too trusting. That said, I would rather be too trusting than have to spend my time and energy worrying about what might happen.


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## Maddhatter (Aug 9, 2008)

Pete, you are not alone, it takes a lot of time and money to build up, caution and security is the word of the day. I had issues with working in my Garage in VA with the door open as strangers would just walk up and check out what I was working on, it felt like they spend more time looking at the equipment and making a price list in their head. Luckily nothing got taken from the garage, however, I did lose a boat motor from the boat parked alongside my house. That's one of the reasons in my new location, my garage does not face the street and very few people are allowed in my shop.

One can never be to careful.


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## BrandonW (Apr 27, 2010)

I sold a table saw and an oven on Craigslist. Both times I had the items in front of my house with my garage closed. I've been pretty careful.

I also purchased a few things on Craiglist. I commissioned a friend of mine to help me pick up a jointer. When we got to the sellers' house (an older couple) my friend asked to use their restroom and they let him right in. I couldn't believe it. I would never let a stranger into my house. And I'd never ask to use a stranger's restroom either.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

The worse the economy, the more time to think …. and the more motivated … the criminals become.

I agree with everybody else: sucks to have to think this way, but … it would cross my mind, too.

Last CL BUY I made, we picked a public meeting place. Now … I GET that … that's tough for a TS, or similar, but …..


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## WinterSun (Apr 3, 2011)

I've only sold small items on craigslist so far, and I've always set it up so that I meet the buyer in front of a busy store near my house. If I ever sell anything that's not easily loaded up in my car, I'll plan to have it in front of the house in advance.


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## Murray62 (Jan 12, 2011)

Ya got me thinking about this now. I do sell items that at the times when I bought them I thought would be the cat's meow . I think when I have other large items for sale I will put a curtain around the entry and the item to seperate the shop contents from the view of potential buyers. It would also be good to have a "Beware of Dog" sign posted even if you don't have a dog. I live in an area that is very trusting but I do not want to be the first one to get robbed.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

All quite true, but half the crime shows on tv nowadays make the remark: "No sign of forced entry"...there are plenty of people, kin, acquaintances from work, neighbors and casual friends who really have no business taking an inventory of my possessions. It cannot possibly have a positive result. Those who ask to borrow items I own, when I have no idea how they could possibly know that I owned such a tool, can be the worst situations. My near-new appliance dolly has ended up far from the hands of the person who borrowed it, for example. I'll have to go get it myself, I'm afraid. *Generous = Chump*. Though I wholeheartily endorse the need to protect yourself from CL respondents as well.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

I share your concerns.This is what I do EVERY time someone I dont know comes to my shop.I make a point of telling them to be sure and call with their arrival time so I can catch Rosco P before they arrive.Roscoe P is a 120 pound Lab?Great dane cross who really doesnt like visiters.When they arrive,I make sure they get a good look at Roscoe.If you dont have a Rosco,You might get one of those tapes of a bad dog for your wife to play when strangers arrive or adopt a Rosco and your worries are over.


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

I know this is a little off of this thread, but when I joined LJs and posted my shop pictures I thought everybody with a PC can "case the joint". So for my location I just posted the general area. The unsavory types could shop around and wait for the opportunity to strike if you have the exact location posted on that map. Something to think about.
No I don't let strangers in my shop.


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## tomd (Jan 29, 2008)

I also have done the same thing and felt the same afterwards, I'm just too trusting but I'm learning.


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

If I don't know the person they don't come on my property, period. I would meet them somewhere else.


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## ellen35 (Jan 1, 2009)

That we even have to discuss this topic is a sad commentary on what has happened to integrity and honesty in this world….
When will it end and when can we be more trusting… never, I fear.


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## Greedo (Apr 18, 2010)

when i sell a used tool, then part of me wants to be cautious and put anything of value out of sight, but another part of me want's to "show off" especially to other woodworkers when it can engage a conversation about tools and stuff.
last week i had a guy pick up a sander, he saw my bosch 10.8v driver and asked if if i was happy about it… well 10 minutes later he left with the sander, a driver and a angle driver for a good price. so i "had" to go and buy the new festool cxs drill! 

this week i installed new doors in a appartment, it was a single woman living there, she took a shower while we were there, went out shopping, left money in sight, left her purse etc…that felt kind of awkward that people can either thrust you as a stranger or be so neglective.


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## Uncle_Salty (Dec 26, 2009)

CL is a tough call. A couple of years ago, I bought a Wii for the kids on CL. The seller and I met at a grocery store. He didn't have it in his possession. We walked out to the parking lot, he waved his arm, and his wife pulled up in a van. He opened up the tailgate, and it was displayed in the back, all spread out, so I couldn't pick up more than one item at a time. After looking it all over individually, I stepped back from the van, told him I'd buy it, and waved my arm. My wife pulled up in our car, popped the trunk, rolled down a window and handed me an envelope with cash, while he boxed it up. We made the transaction and went on our ways. Both satisfied.

The lesson for me on this is that we were both very cautious, and both anticipating trouble. Good thing we were both of like mind.

Last summer, I sold a bunch of stuff on CL. Due to the size and amount of stuff, I sold it out of my driveway. I kept my garage door shut when the buyers were present. I also delivered a dishwasher and a wood stove that I sold so the buyers wouldn't be in the house.

Hate to say this, but a guy has to be careful!


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## dmoney (Dec 20, 2009)

i don't like going thru life scared. if it happens, i'll deal with it. are you worried because you know someone that this happened to?


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## saddletramp (Mar 6, 2011)

Hey Derek, At last, a kindred spirit. LOL We must be the last dinosaurs left.


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## ScottN (Jan 24, 2011)

I too refuse to live in fear of being victimized in any sort.( except by a a road crew of girls from girls gone wild). Seriously though… We leave our house unlocked and all my buildings, and leave our keys in the car. We live in the country in a safe area where there isn't any crime at all.

A few years back, there were a group of 5 people that were breaking into places in our county. My sister's place was one of them. It took my sister a long time to add up everything that was stolen. I decided to take a camcorder and video tape everything I owned. Little easier than righting things down.


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## Yupa4242 (Apr 12, 2011)

A few notes about social woodworking and reality in today's world. We all come to share ideas and talk woodworking and make new friends but we all have to be cautious as well. I have just a little shop without all the ammenities so in the summer I need to open the garage door and turn on the fans and I live In a Island community and I do get nerved when the traffic slows down to look into my shop. Makes me a little uneasy and sometimes think about adding air to my garage to keep the eyes away. I once got robbed at 2 am in the morning with every light in the house on I had passed out on the bed upstairs cleaning for Easter family visit and 2 crooks came into my house up the stairs and were standing In my doorway to the bedroom before my lab and aussie barked me awake as the lept off the bed and chased them out of the house. I was in complete shock the police say never leave all the lights on it just begs for things to be stolen ..what!!? 
Anyhow now concidering getting more insurance and rethinking my security in my shop.


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## mtenterprises (Jan 10, 2011)

Sorry that this is such a concern for all of you. Now this might get a bit long so bare with me. I live in the innercity where crime is the normal (check my profile if you want to know where). You cannot live in a paranoid state. My garage opens up on to the alley people see in or stop by all the time. not just the neighbors but people traveling the alleys, mostly the raggys , and many are of the unsavory sort. The only time I have gotten robed was when I left the garage door open when I went to the house. Just some hand tools stolen but $200 worth. It's a pita that I have to close up every time i have to go to the house but you do what you have to do. The neighbors, some of them rather unsavory, all know the work that I do and I guess they figure if my tools are gone so is the help I give them so they are ok. I just use regular locks for security even though I'm a trained locksmith, remember locks keep honest people honest, and when I'm home I park my truck across the garage door just to make it that much more difficult. And, hehehe , it is noised around the neighborhood that I sit in my house cleaning my guns, good that they think this. But like I said you cannot live in a paranoid state, people that see me or stop by see what I can do and some become customers, hey I'll take anyone's money, and you never know when you might meet a kindred sprit or influance an innercity kid to learn a skill besides basketball. I too have had people from craigs list or the swapsheet stop by to buy things I've advertised and for the most part I'd trust them more than the people around me. All I can say is you do what you can and hope for the best. I have no idea where you guys live but so far I think I might be the worst case scenario and I just don't spend that much time worrying about it. Oh, another thought other than the hand tools you know most of our equipment is too heavy to walk off with unless the bring a crew and a good size truck. Ah well keep it as secure as you can.

MIKE


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## tenontim (Feb 24, 2008)

I've never thought about if I should or shouldn't let people come in my shop, to buy a piece of equipment I have for sale. I want them to be assured that it works. Most folks are fairly local and I don't worry about them much. I've had some come from the bigger cities to buy things and, like with you, it's an opportunity to talk to someone about woodworking. If they come back during the night, they'll have to contend with the barking dog that lives in the shop at night, and that's what I have guns for. If they come when I'm not home, that's what I have insurance for.


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## semi75 (Jun 17, 2010)

I agree with Derek, you can't worry about everything. I'm likely more jaded thatn most because I'm a detective by profession. The good news is that due to the economy tools and general items of value are not nearly as attractive for thiefs as they once were because there is not a market for them now. It has gotten to the point that none of the 5 pawn shops in my town take in tools on pawn/sales anymore because they can't move them.

Now if you have a lot of copper or aluminun in your shop I would definetly hide it. #1 copper is close to $3.50 a lb, and AL is over .70 on the reclycle market. I've seen plumbing tore out of building, taken from new service entrance, you name it. I've seen building suffer 50k in damages for $500 worth of copper. In other words I worry less about tools than raw materials especially now. The same can be said for gold and silver from your house especially with gold around 1,300 an ounce. People coming in and stealing your big screen tv just doesn't happen like it used to.


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## jeepturner (Oct 3, 2010)

I think the kind of people who would look for an easy, although dishonest, opportunity are looking for the easiest way around. I don't think they are looking for the work involved in cleaning out a work shop and then trying to sell their loot. They may come buy and grab anything they could put in a pillow case, but picking up and packing around a hundred pound plus tool wouldn't occur to them.
My house was burglarized twenty years ago. At that time I still lived in the country. They took a camera, a shotgun, and some loose change, and other stuff that I can't remember. What they didn't even rummage through were the tools in my attached work shop. I figure it was teenagers, because they couldn't find the worth of my tools.
There was a man near where I live that was killed by some CL shoppers. The criminals were responding to an add for a relatively high priced CL item, a diamond ring. I think they thought it would be a quick easy buck. I don't think the same kind of people would be looking to do the work required to clean out my shop. 
I think that, as mentioned, locks keep honest people honest, and the really dishonest are mostly just unskilled lazy folks looking for an easy buck.
Someone who wants a tool, usually wants to work. The value of used tools, is not easy money.


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## mtenterprises (Jan 10, 2011)

semi75, must be your neighborhood, big screen tv's are the hot item around here. and scrap as you said. They strip vacant houses for metal around here. 2 winters back the vacant house next door had the garage door stolen one night, i never heard any noise at all. Ahhh the stories we can tell.

MIKE


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## Greedo (Apr 18, 2010)

i guess that just as woodworkers, burglars have specialised!
in my street several houses were burglared in full day and only the real jewelery got stolen, instead of taking everything they only took the ones of value. mind you i could not tell the difference between a 10 and a 10.000 dollar ring. the burglars were probably gipsy children, they settled in the area for a while and now there are thefts everywhere. 
and last year i came home late at night and when i took the turn into my dead end street, i made two cars stop who were coming out of the street. and i recognised them as the two brand new audi's from a couple living in the street.
i thought "why are they leaving with both cars this late?" 
the morning after i hear the cars were stolen at night! the thieves had broken into the house while the people were sleeping, took the keys and the cars. while theres an alarm on the house.
i realised the danger i had unsuspiciously been in, they could have panicked when i entered the street as they were leaving as i was litterally a couple yards away…
last year a whole family got slaughtered here by 3 morrocans who came to see the mercedes they had put up for sale on the internet with the intention to steal it. things didn't go as planned and they went bersek.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Not all who are cautious are worried, paranoid, living in fear, etc.

I'm none of those, and yet … I lock my doors, when I leave. It's a habit. It's an old habit. It has no downside.

I think it's risky to put that sort of label on people …. who do things in a different way than you do.


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

Well said Neil…


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## RobWoodCutter (Jul 22, 2009)

I don't sell stuff on CL. If I have something i don't need/use anymore, I will find someone who could really use it but may not be able to afford it and GIVE it to them (delivery included in some cases.)

Once I looked around and realized there are 6 billion people living on the planet and 99.999% could not afford to own 90% of the tools/wood I own, my attitude changed.

I try to appreciate what I have been blessed with and understand that if the lord blessed me with the tools once, he can bless me with the tools again if they are stolen.

Rob


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## Uncle_Salty (Dec 26, 2009)

Hey… I am not a paranoid, but my radar is usually on high alert.

Rather, I would refer to myself as careful!

A person has to be be careful. Not just today, but in all days! And in all ways!

I used to teach in a juvenile prison. These kids (lots of gang bangers and inner city kids, but some very rural) would tell me stories of their victims… and their stupidity! That is when the real crimes occur. When people either 1. let their guard down or 2. have a stupid attack that can be taken advantage of.


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

I have done the same thing and I try to be more careful about that now.


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## 8iowa (Feb 7, 2008)

With our moving activities ended, I no longer had use for our 7'x14' tandem axle enclosed trailer. I thought about listing it on CL, but living in the urban area of Gainesville, I knew that I would only attract a certain number of individuals who would come back at night intending to steal it.

So, rather than deal with this, and other assorted "tire kickers", I donated the trailer to Habitat for Humanity. They were delighted to receive it, and have lots of uses for a large trailer like this.

I'll get a nice tax write off next year also.


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## mtenterprises (Jan 10, 2011)

8iowa
Now that was a great idea you didn't have to deal with all sorts of people or dicker a price just take a nice tax write off which was better than the dickered price would have been. And it went to a good cause.
MIKE


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## 8iowa (Feb 7, 2008)

Mike:

The trailer didn't owe us anything. It had saved us a ton of money with respect to using professional movers.

I called a local trailer sales dealer, explained what I intended to do, and he faxed me a nice appraisal to use for tax purposes.


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## joshtank (Apr 5, 2010)

I didn't read all the comments, so this may have already been said.

I do more buying of Craigslist tools then selling, as I'm just sort of starting out.

I tend to sell other stuff though.. just the result of spring cleaning and an upcoming baby.

I always have the items sitting in the driveway ready to go. It makes loading it easier, and keeps people out of the house and my shop / garage.


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## Verna (Oct 22, 2010)

I refuse to live in fear, but I do take precautions. My purse was stolen a bit over a week ago from a padlocked locker at the gym where I work out. That just reinforces the fact that locks are for honest people. I still lock my doors as I did before, I still set the alarm when I leave the house. Granted I won't use the lockers at the gym anymore!!

When I have sold from Craigslist, I have had a family member or a neighbor with me when the buyer came to the house. I had a tablesaw in the garage ready to pull out into the driveway with an extension cord ready so the buyer could check it out. The buyer could not see my workshop, and therefore couldn't see any other tools-just my hardwood lumber storage in the garage.

And, when I have purchased from Craigslist, I have taken my brother with me, and we've been treated very well by the sellers, who were also woodworkers. I've had some wonderful conversations with the sellers about their woodworking, but I try not to be intrusive into their other tools or lumber. I know I have my limits as to what I want a stranger to know about my tools.

My house was broken into about 11 years ago. The first thing I checked was the health and well-being of my dogs, the second was my workshop. Everything was in order. The cops said that the thief just wanted stuff he could put in a duffle bag and take with him….not workshop tools. So, for the most part, I think our tools are safer than our jewelry or entertainment equipment.


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## DaddyZ (Jan 28, 2010)

Sad to say but dealing with Strangers, I try to keep tag #, Name, Phone # at least for a few months, just in case. Not that if something happened it would be blamed on them, but at least it is something that is out of the norm in your life. Most of thefts are from people you know, not ones you don't.


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

I do not allow strangers into my shop, let alone my home.

My neighborhood is reasonably secure, probably too many armed **************************************** for the thieves to want to bother with us… I still am not willing to push my luck with folks and their greed… Another reason I busted my backside to get my shop air conditioned / heated and dust collected… I don't want to have the shop doors open, and visible to the street any more than is absolutely necessary. The good thing is that I own a lot of inexpensive tools, the bad thing is there is enough in there a crack head can pawn it off enough to get high if they wanted to… I have a neighbor not too far from me that has a garage filled with Powermatic gold, and Sawstop black… I figure he will be the first target…

I have sold several items on Craigslist. As well as purchased. Again, I refuse to meet someone at home / their home. Each time has been in a VERY public spot. My drill press I bought I met the guy in Downtown Houston, at the main Specs liquor store with tons of people walking by as we did our business. The grinder I sold I met the fellow at the Valero gas station just outside of University of Houston, likewise with the shop vac…

I don't think the issue is unique to CL though, nasty people existed with newspaper classified as well…


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## NathanAllen (Oct 16, 2009)

Make sure your insurance is up to date and keep up relations with your neighbors. Having a friend next door is one of the best methods to have someone alerted to a stranger sneaking around your property.


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## dusty2 (Jan 4, 2009)

I work in an open garage all the time. If my neighbors are a threat then I am at risk. They often walk in just to chat (and look around). However, it is not the neighbors that I am concerned with. It is those who repeatedly cruise by at five (or less) miles per hour.

I now park the truck and RV in the driveway in a location that obscures their line of sight. However, if anyone ventures in that should not be there, I hope they are not camera shy. Their entire visit is being recorded.

I often get the feeling that I have been pilfered because I can't find something that I know should be "right there". Usually I find it, later, right where I left it. I hate that.


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

I have found that out of sight is a good thing, especially for the small tools that gain feet. I was never concerned years ago but as the prices of good tools have gone up, this is an issue. I keep a number of marginal quality tools, flea market tools, and other stuff in plain sight so if someone wants something bad enough, they have a gift.

I have also found that if a shop is too pristine and clean, if someone wants to steal, tools are easier to find. The rule of thumb is that light weight, easy to find, fast in and fast out are the rule. Really sharp creates problems for people that are running or moving quickly. Big and heavy are left alone - unless they are the target.

People also tend to understand that woodworkers, like butchers, know how to use really sharp tools. This is a serious problem if caught. Ever try to dodge someone offering you a whole bunch of really sharp chisels - all at once? How about someone that wants to show you how sharp their saws are - close up? Can be a real problem for most people. Woodworkers also have bats - in rough form, they have chemicals that burn. People kind of know this.

There is also the notion that - its just a bunch of old tools. Auto mechanics have bigger problems of losing their tools from theft than woodworkers - sockets, screwdrivers, and wrenches are commonly pilfered. I have three partial sets of sockets.


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## Boneski (Oct 28, 2009)

Wow there has been some really good points brought up here.
I was surprised that some Lumberjockers have their exact residential address on their profile - I've just got a general area on mine.
While I do let most people that are buying stuff from me come to my house, they definitely do not get a look at my workshop.
Someone I work with recently had their house broken into, and we think it was something to do with his email "out of office" auto reply, which read something like this "I'm taking the family overseas between x and y date". Apparantly good intelligence in the wrong hands….. 
As someone that spends a lot of time working abroad, I also make a point of NOT telling taxi drivers where I'm going and how long for. That's the information you give your house sitter, not some Joe Blow you just met.

No need to live in fear - just be sensible and protect your hard won toys!


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

My shop is so cluttered, no one would be able to assess my valuables except for the power tools that are heavy and not easily moved. I also keep it locked up when I'm not there. Living in a rural area,my house is a quarter mile off the road and our dog protects the property. Being retired, we are always at home and I keep a few firearms for varments.(all kinds)


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