# Thoughts on glue.



## Bobmedic (Sep 24, 2010)

For the last several years I've been using Titebond 3. It's been a great glue. Just the other day, I needed to buy a gallon and noticed that the Titebond 3 is 13 dollars a gallon more than Titebond 2. I just couldn't justify the extra money since 99% of my projects aren't outdoor projects or anything that would need to be waterproof. What are your favorite glues to use for general purpose?


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

I've switched to primarily using hide glue. Either liquid or hot hide glue.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I use Titebond 2 Extend because I have a heat
press and it works with that, but prior I would
just use Elmer's white glue or whatever. I like
white glue better than yellow generally because
it tends to be formulated with longer open times
which allows more time in complicated assemblies.


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## Bobmedic (Sep 24, 2010)

> I ve switched to primarily using hide glue. Either liquid or hot hide glue.
> 
> - jmartel


What are the advantages/disadvantages of hide glue? I've never used it. Longer open time?


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## Marn64 (Apr 1, 2016)

I don't do many outdoor projects but let me give you a tip on glue from a luthier's standpoint, and trust me, instrument makers are picky about glues. I used Titebond III for my first guitar and immediately was told by several experienced instrument makers that it was a bad choice. Titebond III creeps, and it creeps bad under stresses. These days I use Titebond I or hide glue. Titebond III is best for laminate archery bows and outdoor projects that need that much strength, it is difficult to undo joints made of it and frankly it's strength is unnecessary for 90% of projects. Just my 2 cents.


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## Bobmedic (Sep 24, 2010)

> I use Titebond 2 Extend because I have a heat
> press and it works with that, but prior I would
> just use Elmer s white glue or whatever. I like
> white glue better than yellow generally because
> ...


That's interesting, I haven't used white glue since grade school. Good to know about the extended open time. I tried urethane glue ONCE! Definitely not a fan of that stuff. I'm sure it has it's applications but all it did for me was make a huge foamy mess.


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## Marn64 (Apr 1, 2016)

> I ve switched to primarily using hide glue. Either liquid or hot hide glue.
> 
> - jmartel
> 
> ...


hot hide glue tacks up in about 40 seconds, and I would suggest working under a heat lamp to keep your work time a little longer. It cannot creep and it is great stuff if you work fast.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

> What are the advantages/disadvantages of hide glue? I've never used it. Longer open time?
> 
> - Bobmedic


Hot hide glue has a way shorter open time. Liquid hide glue has a longer open time. The benefits are that it is reversible if you mess something up, doesn't creep, easily repairable (don't need to scrape out old glue, just add new glue and reassemble). Hot glue tacks fast so you can do a rub-joint and set it aside for later.

It makes veneering way easier. You can Hammer veneer it, and you can reverse it if the veneer doesn't sit perfectly or has bubbles the first time. You can also heat up a metal plate (I have a 1/8" aluminum plate that I heat up on a camping propane grill) and set it on top of the veneer to help extend the open time of hot hide glue so that you can take longer to clamp it all up.


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## Bobmedic (Sep 24, 2010)

> I don t do many outdoor projects but let me give you a tip on glue from a luthier s standpoint, and trust me, instrument makers are picky about glues. I used Titebond III for my first guitar and immediately was told by several experienced instrument makers that it was a bad choice. Titebond III creeps, and it creeps bad under stresses. These days I use Titebond I or hide glue. Titebond III is best for laminate archery bows and outdoor projects that need that much strength, it is difficult to undo joints made of it and frankly it s strength is unnecessary for 90% of projects. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> - Marn64


What do you mean "creeps" I've not heard that terminology before?


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## Marn64 (Apr 1, 2016)

> I don t do many outdoor projects but let me give you a tip on glue from a luthier s standpoint, and trust me, instrument makers are picky about glues. I used Titebond III for my first guitar and immediately was told by several experienced instrument makers that it was a bad choice. Titebond III creeps, and it creeps bad under stresses. These days I use Titebond I or hide glue. Titebond III is best for laminate archery bows and outdoor projects that need that much strength, it is difficult to undo joints made of it and frankly it s strength is unnecessary for 90% of projects. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> - Marn64
> 
> ...


It deforms under stress, it makes the joint will either drift or it will look like little beads of wet glue are coming out, but it is dry.


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## Bobmedic (Sep 24, 2010)

> I don t do many outdoor projects but let me give you a tip on glue from a luthier s standpoint, and trust me, instrument makers are picky about glues. I used Titebond III for my first guitar and immediately was told by several experienced instrument makers that it was a bad choice. Titebond III creeps, and it creeps bad under stresses. These days I use Titebond I or hide glue. Titebond III is best for laminate archery bows and outdoor projects that need that much strength, it is difficult to undo joints made of it and frankly it s strength is unnecessary for 90% of projects. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> - Marn64
> 
> ...


Wow, I didn't know that. Is it the elasticity or creeping that makes it strong? Like the example you gave of the laminate bow. Seems like there would be a lot of stress in that situation.


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## DirtyMike (Dec 6, 2015)

Tirebond 2 is my choice over 3, Check out steve ramseys video on the subject. we both had the same problems with 3.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

yeah. Creep is another issue with some of the
yellow glues. I've seen it in some of my own
early work and that's another reason I lean
towards white glues for indoor work… they
seem to cure more brittle and hard.

If I want a real hard glue I use plastic resin
glue, sold in powder form. It's great 
for laminations.


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## Marn64 (Apr 1, 2016)

> I don t do many outdoor projects but let me give you a tip on glue from a luthier s standpoint, and trust me, instrument makers are picky about glues. I used Titebond III for my first guitar and immediately was told by several experienced instrument makers that it was a bad choice. Titebond III creeps, and it creeps bad under stresses. These days I use Titebond I or hide glue. Titebond III is best for laminate archery bows and outdoor projects that need that much strength, it is difficult to undo joints made of it and frankly it s strength is unnecessary for 90% of projects. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> - Marn64
> 
> ...


I am no bow expert, only that it is the preferred glue for laminate bows, I believe it does has more elasticity than other aliphatic resin glues, and that is why it is preferred in bows. I have heard of creep in bows, and it may very well be that you eventually have to redo bow laminates, but again, I am no expert.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

TB3 shrinks and turns dark

I prefer TB 1 or any plain yellow glue. Elmer's wood glue if you want a fast tack, that stuff grabs right now.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

TB3 will definitely creep. I've went to HHG for many things kept indoors. Perfect for small things like jewelry boxes and whatnot. Especially in places where you don't want to resand and plane after gluing.

Still use tb3 for just about everything but I just use HHG whenever I can.

I got some OBG but haven't had a chance to use it yet. It would be perfect for dovetail glue ups on wide casework or structures with multiple tenons that need gluing at once.

Cleans up with a damp rag.doesnt affect finishes.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

I started using hot hide glue about five years ago and have used almost nothing else since. If you are interested, I did a blog series about it (including videos) covering rub joints, hammer veneering, hot cauls, reversibility and assorted other related topics.
http://lumberjocks.com/shipwright/blog/series/5437


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

I use Tightbond liquid hide glue for the majority of my interior projects. I like that it has a slightly longer open time and it doesn't swell joints when applied. Also is reversible if I ever need to repair.


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## jimintx (Jan 23, 2014)

OK, now I have to ask, what type glue is "OBG"?


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

> OK, now I have to ask, what type glue is "OBG"?
> 
> - jimintx


It's a brand of liquid hide glue.
http://www.oldbrownglue.com/

There's a lot of bunk, and misunderstanding regarding PVA adhesives floating around the internet. Quite a bit of it starts with the manufacturers purporting that their PVA has some badass voodoo that makes it better than other products….then gets parroted and embellished by people who (innocently enough) don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.
On a basic woodworking level, all PVA adhesives, white included, are stronger than the wood itself. After that, again, on a basic woodworking level, the only real differences between brands are open times, set times, and cure times, all of which are effected or achieved by adding and adjusting tackifying resins and/or solids to plain ol' PVA. After that, move on to water resistance.
Different brands also have different properties in regards to flexibility/rigidity and creep, again, a result of the solids added to the PVA adhesive. BTW…..your 'average' weekend warrior type woodworker has never experienced 'creep', and probably never will, at least on any noticeable or worrisome level. 
Some good reading….
http://www.woodcentral.com/woodworking/forum/archives.pl/bid/1001/md/read/id/458880/sbj/the-differences-white-vs-yellow-glue-tb/

Just to quantify this a bit….I'm speaking from research and experience. I burn through an average of about 1500 gallons of PVA per year for the last 25, 30 years. Multiple brand names, and dealt with multiple embellishing sales reps and manufacturers.


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

Hide glue: You know those spindles that come apart on the bottoms of older kitchen chairs and the legs spread apart? That's hide glue. It's used for violin assembly as good violins are supposed to be disassembled and put back together every few years. I don't use it for furniture. It was a good choice before science.

Titebond III's main feature is that it is water resistant. Use it on outdoor furniture.

Titebond II is a version of I (one) with a different set time and consistency.

White glue (elmers) is a good glue like the titebonds, the glue joint will be stronger than the wood.

The reason I mainly use titebond glue, in my instance II. When I used to make guitars and glued the tops and backs together. *Titebond, unlike white glue sands just like the wood. White glue will simply get shiny and the wood will sand around it. *Wiith yellow glues, if you carefully clean them off before drying, you can sand off the remainder without scraping or thinning the wood around it.

Note: I never use yellow glue on something I needed to take apart with heat, like a fretboard or neck. White glue will come apart with a lot of heat on it like a flat iron. Yellow glue doesn't. Not a nice trick to play on a future repair person.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

> Hide glue: You know those spindles that come apart on the bottoms of older kitchen chairs and the legs spread apart? That s hide glue. It s used for violin assembly as good violins are supposed to be disassembled and put back together every few years. I don t use it for furniture. It was a good choice before science.
> 
> - Craftsman on the lake


Chairs get abused. Over time they fail. The failure is due to the quality of lack thereof in the original fit and the level of abuse, not the glue. If they were glued with hide glue you can poke a little new glue in the joint and reassemble it. The new glue will reactivate the old and no scraping is necessary.
Or better yet,
You can disassemble all the other joints easily and repair the poorly fitting parts before reassembling, again without the need to remove all the old glue.

Hide glue is not for everything but chairs is one of the places it should be used IMHO.

This is a good article about hide glue and chairs by Peter Galbert. http://chairnotes.blogspot.com/2007/02/why-hide-glue.html


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## pmayer (Jan 3, 2010)

Here's a chart that I put together following a test of assembly time on a number of glues. As others are pointing out, there is a lot more to glue selection than just assembly time, but it is one important factor to consider.


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## pontic (Sep 25, 2016)

Reduce clamping pressure to avoid excessive creep.Don't flood the joint with TB3 either. It has worked well for me.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

These links might help

http://www.titebond.com/Libraries/News_Articles/HowStrongisYourGlue_FWW.sflb.ashx

http://www.finewoodworking.com/2007/05/15/testing-wood-glues


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I've been mostly using Elmers wood glue for the last few years. A year ago I decided to try using TB3 to glue up staves to turn on the lathe for a beer mug to give it a little more water resistance and it was the first time I have ever had a glue joint fail. I've also decide to try TB2 and noticed that the small bottle I bought last year very quickly started to dry out and discolor where there was air in the bottle while the half empty gallon of Elmers I bought 3 years ago has never had that problem. I also noticed that both TB glues I have tried seemed more slippery than the Elmers which made awkward clamp ups a little more difficult. So I am not a fan of the TB glues based upon my limited experience with them.

I also tried Hot Hide glue for both assembly and hammer veneer application and I love it but it is a little more trouble if you are doing small glue ups or not gluing nearly everyday.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

> I also tried Hot Hide glue for both assembly and hammer veneer application and I love it but it is a little more trouble if you are doing small glue ups or not gluing nearly everyday.
> 
> - Lazyman


One thing that I do is I use a very small glass jar (think jelly jar, ~1.5oz?) for the glue and fill the rest of the pot with water. Then I only need to heat up and use a small amount of glue at a time. Larger glue ups I'll use a larger jar in there.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Elmers Glue All & TB Original are my 2 fav's.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

How Do I Read The Lot Numbers?

Our current lot numbering system is a 10 digit code. The format is: aymmddbat#. The "a" stands for Made in the U.S.A. The "y" is the last digit of the year of manufacture. Digits "mm" represent the month, and "dd" represent the day of the month. The final four digits represent the batch number used for quality control purposes. Therefore, a product with the lot number A104270023 was manufactured on April 27, 2011.
http://www.titebond.com/frequently_asked_questions.aspx

I called Titebond when I had concerns about my glue and they were very accommodating and taught me how
to read the date code.

Great thread and links, thank you.


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## TajBuilder (Aug 6, 2008)

I just attended Roland Johnson's seminar at the Woodworking Show in Detroit and he recommends the Original Titebond 1 for interior projects because it can be undone. You can also easily dissolve glue smears with white vinegar.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

> I also tried Hot Hide glue for both assembly and hammer veneer application and I love it but it is a little more trouble if you are doing small glue ups or not gluing nearly everyday.
> 
> - Lazyman
> 
> ...


I did something similar. I've used old plastic spice bottles, because I read that HHG can actually make glass jars crack if you let it dry out too much, but it has a limited shelf life if you don't use it within a week or two, even if you store it in the fridge, though I've never kept it around long enough to find out. The last time I had some left over and knew it would be a while before the next use, I poured out the remaining glue onto a plastic sheet and let it harden and dry out as an experiment. I've read you can crush it up and reconstitute to reuse later.


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## xeddog (Mar 2, 2010)

I use a variety of the Titebond glues, but mostly TBIII. But lately I have started using either the TBII or TBII extend, and most recently TB translucent for light colored woods like pine and maple.


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## pontic (Sep 25, 2016)

Where do you get Tightbond translucient?


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

http://www.homedepot.com/b/Tools-Power-Tool-Accessories-Woodworking-Tool-Accessories/N-5yc1vZc8y8/Ntk-Extended/Ntt-translucent+glue?Ntx=mode+matchpartialmax&NCNI-5

http://www.titebond.com/search_results.aspx?q=titebond%20translucent%20wood%20glue

Here ya go


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

I use TB II almost exclusively. It works just the way I want it to.

I have had problems with dark glue lines with TB III in the past. Sometimes I'll use it on walnut glueups for that reason, but TB II seems to give an invisible glueline with the stain I use.

I tried TB II Extend, but it was too runny for my liking.


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