# Measurements: which do you prefer fractions or decimals?



## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

Funny thing I ran into a measuring tape based on just metric on this site which made me think…that is a good forum to start…we'll compete to see who likes what…SAE (imperial) (fractions) orrrrr metric (decimals)?

I myself am a fraction man…easier math to me…but as for precision metric goes finer…I use them both when it comes to construction in the carpentry field…all depends what the blueprints go by. But like I said I prefer imperial.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

It all depends on what I am making as to which system I use. Mostly fractions, but for small projects like puzzles or multi piece projects, I like the metric system based on 10s.


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## Blake (Oct 17, 2007)

*BOTH!*

I use machinists rulers in my shop which are INCHES divided into DECIMALS.

I hate fractions but here in the U.S. everything is in inches. So this system is the best of both worlds for me. And by the way most of these rulers have fractions on the other side just in case.


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## Dez (Mar 28, 2007)

All of the above, depending on the project. I have even been seen using the metric system.


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## DanLyke (Feb 8, 2007)

I'm a computer geek, so using fractions, where everything is base 2, makes a lot of sense to me.

I also use European tools, where everything is metric. But increments of 10, rather than 2, mean that a millimeter is too large, but a tenth of a millimeter is too small.

If I had my way, I'd use Imperial units with fractions, I think they make more sense and happen on scales that are more useful to human beings. However, I know that I've got to be conversant in both.

Besides, most measuring is really done with story sticks anyway, the only time I care what the numbers are is when I'm trying to match a router bit or somesuch.


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## JasonIndy (Dec 29, 2008)

I'm a fraction guy myself. My combo square is divided into 8th, 16ths, 32nds, and 64ths (none of which easily divide into tens.)


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Measuring in whatever units floats your boat is just a personal choice that has nothing to do with, rationalization and standardization of measurement units throughout the world. Nigeria is the only other country that uses the (quasi) Imperial system, all others use the SI Metric system. The 2 Imperial systems - yes there have been 2, are not totally the same. SAE stands for Society of Automotive Engineers (US SAE) and the other, British Standards (the original - BSF, BSW). Differences between the 2 includes: SAE threaded products and B.S. threaded products - they are different, and 1 US Imperial ton is 2,000 lbs while the B.S. standard Imperial 1 ton is 2,240 lbs and a US 55 gallon oil drum only holds 50 Imperial gallons. Both Imperial systems were devised from non static objects and the measurement scales had no mathematical reference to each other, hence the Imperial system is badly flawed. The US does use the ISO metric system where precision is really important; medications, film, high end engineering and clarity. There are also many instances where the ISO Metric system is shown alongside Imperial units - very confusing. I just looked at a box of corn flakes and read that it contained - 1lb 8oz, 24oz, and 680 grams, wow 3 different measurements but all the same? I have a can of soda and it reads the contents as being 12 FL OZ and 355 mL ? So what is a Fluid oz? Well looks like if it is soda I have a can full of it, but what if the liquid was Mercury?, how much liquid would you expect in a can for 12 FL-oz??? I guess that's why in medicine they give you shots by the c.c. and not Fluid oz.
So back to measurements: The ISO Metric system IS the way to go, after all it has been the *only* lawful measurement system in the US for over *100 years*. We must change to be compatible worldwide, but we must start with the schools and let older folks carry on with what they are happy with. Once you get all the Imperial stuff out of your head you will find the metric system so easy and wonder why you ever used the stupid Imperial system. Yeah I work in Imperial, but I have also worked in Metric and would prefer to use it 100%.
In the end it is your comfort that decides the systems.


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

"We must change to be compatible worldwide, but we must start with the schools and let older folks carry on with what they are happy with. Once you get all the Imperial stuff out of your head you will find the metric system so easy and wonder why you ever used the stupid Imperial system."

This is exactly how it went down in Canada 30+ years ago.
Pretty much the only real 'industry' that still uses Imperial measurement here is residential construction. Commercial construction is strictly Metric…and Imperial measure is quickly dying out in the residential trade with the younger generations moving in.
Bottom line is metric is MUCH easier! FAR fewer mistakes made with the metric system due to MUCH simpler math. Everything is based on the #10.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

I use both and I live in Canada. ...................and I feel sorry for the next generation who know little if any imperial measurements. 99% of everything I build, measure, is done in imperial. About the the only time I use metric is to divide something into equall parts and even then I often convert the # back into imperial.

The commericail industrial archtectectural drawings done in metric…........I have a hard time visualizing how long 22,176 mm is ?


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## paulcoyne (Nov 9, 2009)

i love metric so much easier for me to understand because i was taught that way in school i still have a fair understanding of imperial and use it time to time when i am working on a project i start out in imperial when boards are rough and i cut to general dimensions i measure in feet and inches but once i am cutting to the exact dimensions i use metric i find it much easier to be accurate, it all comes down to how you were taught first i think..


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## bues0022 (Sep 30, 2009)

"The commericail industrial archtectectural drawings done in metric…….....I have a hard time visualizing how long 22,176 mm is ?"

I think what this statement says, is what units are you comfortable using, and have an inherent sense of using. Ask someone from England if they can grasp the concept of how tall a person is: say 5'10". You and I might understand this very well, but they'll want you to tell them that it's about 178 cm. Then they'll know.

I'm a cross country skier, and every ski trail is measured in kilometers. Even though I've lived in the US my whole life, and obviously use MILES when thinking about distance, if you were to tell me a ski trail is 10 miles long, I have to convert that to Kilometers before that distance makes sense to me - in terms of skiing.

Interesting topic that is brought up here. It shows ho ambidextrous we are (or not) to alternative ways of measurement.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Visualizing units of measure in a different system is like speaking a foreign language. If you have to stop and translate to your native language in your head, you haven't fully grasped it yet. Once you are truly fluent in that language (so I'm told, at least), you actually begin to think in it, without having to mentally translate.

The same is true for imperial vs. metric. As Ryan pointed out, if you tell a European that someone is 178 cm tall, they immediately visualize that height, but most Americans have to convert to inches to know if the person is tall, short, or average.

I remember learning the metric system in school back in the 60's. We were told that the U.S. was converting to metric, and that feet and inches would soon be a thing of the past. Here I am 40-something years later, and I'm still waiting.

Anybody who is willing to be objective has to admit that metric makes more sense. I'd be interested to hear if anyone can really make an argument for the imperial system besides that it is what they are used to.


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

I grew up and went to school during the whole metric vs. SAE thing in the 70's… I got used to both. Don't care either way. But what DOES drive me crazy is trying to convert fractions to decimals, for example from my caliper which measures in imperial and metric units, but only displays decimal output. I should have bought one that does fractional AND decimal… Sometimes I am thick in the head and need some help with my math (public schooling you know…)


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

If all my router bits, chisels, and dado blades were set up for metric, I would prefer that system. As it is, I use imperial and a calculator. 
Man! do I wish it were all standard. Life would be so much simpler. I hate undersized plywood!
Gene


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

You mention that once you get the imperial out of your head you'd wonder why you would ever use it. The one MAIN reason I like imperial compared to metric is when I'm on job sites we dont have measurements that are way up in thousands when it comes to imperial. And the finest measurement we have to bring it to is an eighth of an inch not 16s 32s or 64s which is alot more precise like metric. When I'm on a site with metric its all in mm and construction doesn't have to be that fine. And then we have to work with huge numbers up in the thousands. What I dont get is why cant metric go by cm or decimeter? why the mm? Like 30 cm is 300 and it makes me think long. 12 (inch) sounds shorter to me! I'd rather take a small number with a fraction anyday…easier to remember.


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

converting fractions to decimals is easy

top # divided by bottom #


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Mark, the idea of leaving it in millimeters is that you can easily move the decimal point in your brain once you get used to the system. 22,143 mm is, of course, the same as 22.143 meters. For conversational purposes, you might say a bedroom is roughly 3 meters x 4 meters. But on the plan, for the sake of accuracy, it would be written as maybe 3,056mm x 4,125mm. Granted, they could just as easily write 4.125 meters on the plan, but it's really no different.


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

ya true…im fluent to both…raised in grade school on cm and high school on inches. i scored high on my measurments in trade school…another thing is learning how to use a scale…i aced that as well


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## DanLyke (Feb 8, 2007)

So I'll note that I'm about to have to make a difficult decision: I just got a milling machine, and will start to do more stuff in metal. Yeah, I can get calipers and dials in both systems, and neither of those tools is terribly expensive, even micrometers, but I'm also going to have to start investing in taps and dies.

That's where the problem really shows up: Because I'm going to have drill bits of the appropriate over and under sizes to for the taps. And I'm probably also going to need an indexed boring system as well. I can go metric, the bearings are most likely metric, but if I have to buy threaded rod here in northern California, Imperial units are much cheaper and much more available.

The metric tools are also likely to be a bit more expensive, but I'm mostly okay with that because they're also likely to be a better class of tool.


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## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

Whenever I can, I like to measure in 10ths of an inch. I have a chart on my wall that provides the decimal equivalent to every commonly used (and some not so commonly used) fraction we work with. Of course, all of my router bits and most of my drill bits are defined in fractions and I specify the nominal thickness of wood in quarters.


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

I am with Blake. The Starrett scales (6" rulers) are all I use when precise measuring is needed.
Of course, I was a U.S. Toolmaker for many years and the decimal system is all we used. I remember when the US highway system converted to KM's in the early 70's. It was a bust. They reverted back to M.P.H in a couple of years.

I know, I'm a Dinosaur, but it's what I learned and am comfortable with.
Yet, when needed I can do the calculations of 25.4 or .03937 and see the size in metric. (Not bad for an old guy)

LOL


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## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

You left one option out. Imperial decimal.

It's exactly the same as the metric system except it's based in the inch rather than the meter. Looks at the picture of the scales Blake used above. That's the imperial decimal system

For some things imperial is better, like anything under an inch (25.4mm). Like was said before a millimeter is too big and a micrometer is too small.

A lot of metric tools are based on the imperial system because they are handy to use. Look at a 6" pair of calipers.
The metric version is 150mm. Why 150 rather than 100 or 200? Those would be 4" and 8" calipers which are not as common.

If you are used to decimals they are infinity better then fractions.

How many times using fractions have you thought to yourself 3/16 plus just a bit, or just under 7/16? With decimal you would just add a few thousandths to .187 or subtract a couple from .437. There is never an in between a thousandths (at least with wood).

All that being said I wish the US would adopt the metric and be done with it. Then at least we'd be at the same advantage or disadvantage as the rest of the world.

For those interested in a decimal tape measure I just reviewed one here:
http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/1156


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## yarydoc (Oct 16, 2009)

When I was working I had to buy two sets of tools metric and inch. I never got completely comfortable with metric. Now that I am laid off / retired I doubt that I will ever start doing woodworking with metric measurements simply because it would make it less enjoyable to me. I'm sure if I had started with metric I would feel the same about it.


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## FredG (Apr 11, 2008)

Using US or imperial punctuations in metric measurements can be very confusing.
In Charlie's example (reading that in metric) 22,143 mm is *not* the same as 22.143 m.
22.143 m. is in fact one million times bigger.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

The metric system is a relatively modern system (just over 200 years old) which has been developed based on scientific principles to meet the requirements of science and trade. The Imperial and USA systems have evolved without any such constraints, resulting in a complex set of measurements that fit everyday life in a simple agricultural society but which are unsuited to the requirements of science and modern trade. Consequently, the metric system offers a number of substantial advantages:

• *Simplicity*. The Metric system has only *7 basic measures*, plus a substantial number of measures using various combinations of these base measures. The imperial system in the USA system has over *300 different measures *, of which many are ambiguous. For example, there are eight different definitions of ton (including the 'short ton' and the 'long ton'), all of which differ in weight. There are also eight different definitions of barrel, five different definitions of bushel, three different definitions of mile (international, nautical, and US Survey). The USA gallon is smaller than the Imperial gallon, and all measures which are multiples or subdivisions of the gallon (e.g. pint, quart) likewise are inconsistent between the USA and the UK. Not only are the USA and UK pints different in size, but there are also differences between 'dry pints' and 'liquid pints'. 
• *Ease of calculation*. All the units in the metric system are multiplied by 10 (to make larger units) or divided by 10 (to make smaller units). For example a kilometer is 1000 meters (10 , 10 , 10). It's nearest equivalent is a mile which is 5280 feet (8 , 10 , 22 , 3); based on the calculation that a mile is 8 furlongs, 10 chains to a furlong, 22 yards to a chain, 3 feet to a yard). Although complex calculations can be done using the Imperial or USA system, almost all calculations can be done easier and faster in the metric system. 
• *International Standard*. With the exception of the USA, all major countries have converted to the metric system. Consequently, for any international communication (trade, science, etc.) the metric system is the most widely used and accepted.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

*If in doubt - Read the US Law:*
The metric system originated in France in the 1790's, a few years after Jefferson's proposals. During the mid-nineteenth century, as expanding trade demanded a consistent set of measurements, use of the metric system spread through continental Europe. As they imported goods from Europe or exported goods to Europe, Americans became increasingly aware of the metric system. In 1866, Congress legalized its use in an act reading:

*It shall be lawful throughout the United States of America to employ the weights and measures of the metric system; and no contract or dealing, or pleading in any court, shall be deemed invalid or liable to objection because the weights or measures expressed or referred to therein are weights or measures of the metric system.*
As a result, the U. S. has been "metric" since 1866, but only in the sense that Americans have been free since that time to use the metric system as much as they like. Although there has always been popular resistance to changing the traditional measures, the metric system has actually enjoyed strong support from American business leaders and scientists since the late nineteenth century. In 1875, the U.S. was one of the original signers of the Treaty of the Meter, which established the International Bureau of Weights and Measures (BIPM). This agency administers the International System of Units, the official version of the metric system. American scientists and engineers have always been among the leaders in improving, extending, and revising the metric system. The general public, however, has lagged far behind.

In 1893, Thomas C. Mendenhall, then Superintendent of Weights and Measures in the Treasury Department, concluded that the metric standards, the official meter and kilogram bars supplied by BIPM, should become the standards for all measurement in the U.S. With the approval of the Secretary of the Treasury, this decision was made and published; it has since been called the Mendenhall Order. The order didn't mean that metric units had to be used, but since that time the customary units have been defined officially in terms of metric standards. Currently, the foot is legally defined to be exactly 0.3048 meter and the pound is legally defined to equal exactly 453.59237 grams.

In 1901, Congress established the National Bureau of Standards (NBS), now known as the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), to support technical standards for American industry and commerce, including the maintenance of standards of weight and measurement. In 1964, NBS announced:

Henceforth it shall be the policy of the National Bureau of Standards to use the units of the International System (SI), as adopted by the 11th General Conference of Weights and Measures.

*Wake up, you can be sued for not using the metric system or even jailed. )*


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

lol….wow roger you can make your own novel….better patent pending that info


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## DanLyke (Feb 8, 2007)

So I just read CharlieM1958's statement that "Anybody who is willing to be objective has to admit that metric makes more sense."

I disagree. Sure, we get taught base 10 math in school, but computers do base 10 really badly, and base 2 really well. Set up a computer to calculate .1 x .1 x .1 x .1 … and it diverges from base 10 really quickly, or it does the calculations slowly (using a scheme called "Binary Coded Decimal"), but set it up to calculate .5 x .5 x .5… and it's accurate 'til it runs out of digits. Ask a computer for 1/1,000,000,000 (10^9) and it'll be approximate, ask it for 1/1,073,741,824 (2^30) and it'll be dead on.

So for someone like me who works with binary all day, fractions make a lot more sense than decimal. For anyone who works with computers, binary fractions will be more accurate than decimal.

And, looking at a gap, you can easily eyeball half of that. You can even cut a piece of paper to length and fold it in half, or do the same with a piece of string. Try figuring a tenth of a distance accurately.


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## bues0022 (Sep 30, 2009)

Fred, I'm not sure how you arrive at this conclusion. From my almost 9 years in school for mechanical engineering, I have *not* seen where it is improper to use a coma to denote separations of orders of magnitude, eg. thousands, millions, billions etc. In fact, it makes the naming convention of the metric system much easier by adding a delineator at every third order of magnitude - which just so happen to be the common interval for the next-most-commonly used prefix in the metric system. So, to counteract what you just stated…from my academic experience 22,143mm *does*, in fact, equal 22.143m


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

potato, patato, tomato, tamato, a half a dozen or six

I suggest one use what system they like if thats what works for them.


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## bues0022 (Sep 30, 2009)

Dan, your point of view makes perfect sense, but what it fails to take into account is that both the metric and imperial units can be used in fractions. I think the OP was asking about the preferences between using a metric system or imperial, assuming the fact that both are equally usable in fraction form. I your point is valid though when taking parts of an inch, or a meter however. I'm no computer scientist, but I've written some computer codes in my day, and the base 10 seemed to work fine for the high level work I was doing. When making very low level programs and calculations, those extra little rounding errors from using decimals certainly can add up to a big problem though.


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## Ger21 (Oct 29, 2009)

In Europe, they use a comma in place of a decimal, which is probably where the confusion comes in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator

I use both fractions and imperial decimals, as well as metric decimals. All or cabinets are built to fractional sizes, but it's easier to enter the decimal equivalent into CAD, and computerized machinery. We also had a CNC router that operated in mm's, and european hardware mounting locations are always in mm's.

Bottom line, is it's good to know all of them.

And I always use combination imperial/metric tape measures.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

This is an interesting subject.
Fact - the comma *is* the official separator.
Dan: We're talking real world measuring units not Bytes and Bobs! Your work is an exception.
Does anyone understand that imported goods must be manufactured to Imperial units so they are accepted - don't you know that makes the cost higher (special order)
In the 70's I was involved in the push to go metric but so many people bitched about it, saying it was too hard (poor babies), it was a communist conspiracy (under a metric bed?) and urged their politicians to stop the change over. An argument was made that nobody would understand how much gas they were getting in Liters at the pump. How Stupid - Most people I know buy gas by the top-up, tankful or Dollar amount, so what does it matter what delivery unit are used, you just pay the same Dollar amount in your metric currency.
As stated before, we actually should be using the ISO Metric system, but have chosen to go our own expensive and illogical way and be a world oddball. No offense intended to all current Imperial unit users, keep using it for comfort, but newer generations must get on board with the metric system if we want to join the rest of the world
QED
Roman: I'm glad that misspelling works for you. )


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## Ger21 (Oct 29, 2009)

I think the answer is in your last sentence. Nobody here wants to join the rest of the world. 

For the record, I wouldn't mind joining myself….But that's for another thread.


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## FredG (Apr 11, 2008)

Bues, like Ger21 wrote, the metric decimal separator is a comma and the delimiter is a dot.
I have to say that in woodworking one seldom sees three decimal places.
This is probably the only case in which it can be confusing.


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

Gerry

LMAO +1


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## DanLyke (Feb 8, 2007)

Roger, the experience of me as an individual tinkerer in the U.S., or as someone developing things to be manufactured in China, is that metric is more expensive, which I think speaks to the particular market. If I go down to my local hardware store, the metric threaded rod (when I can get it) costs more than the Imperial threaded rod, the metric bolts are more expensive and come in fewer varieties than Imperial. Local machine shops are all tooled up for Imperial. Similarly, all the folks I've dealt with in China have been tooled for Imperial dimensions, probably because they're primarily serving the U.S. market. Asking them for metric ups the price and/or the delivery time.

And though the computer portion of my work does mean that I'm as handy with binary fractions as I am with decimal, when I'm out in the shop there are any number of ways I can find the center of something, and therefore find the binary fraction of something. Finding the decimal portion of something involves a rule.

Besides, base 10 makes sense if you have 10 fingers and count on them, but as woodworkers get older the probability of that being the case gets lower… [rimshot]

Now having said that, I try to do primarily metric in my shop because most of my power tools are marked out in metric (Festool) and the sheet goods are often metric thicknesses. I actually have more metric tapes in my shop (Talmeters rock!) than Imperial ones. It's just that I find the sizes of metric measure weird (a millimeter is too big, a tenth of a millimeter is too small, and "five foot nine and a quarter" is easier for me to remember than "1759 mm"), and find that it's easier to do factors of 2 than 10 on the fly (ie: find the center of that board).

On the importance of the separator, I measure meter plus distances (height or width of a cabinet, for instance) to millimeter scale accuracy (ie: a quarter or an eight of an inch on a floor to ceiling distance) all the time. There's four digits and room for confusion on "," vs ".". With Imperial I have a unit for each, single tick for feet, double tick for inches, and fraction, so there's redundancy and additional error checking in the markings.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Ger21: Yeah, but more likely to be nobody else wants us to join the rest of the world. After all we have a history of screwing things up. The last time we sold a bill of goods to the rest of the world, they ended up almost bankrupt!


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

and all i asked was metric or imperial lol


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## JasonIndy (Dec 29, 2008)

I agree that it's personal preference. That having been said, I also agree metric makes more sense on the surface. My problem with metric is that there isn't anything between a centimeter and a meter. It's like going from a fifth of an inch to more than a full yard. I probably use feet and inches more than any other distance measurement in my everyday life. It would be nice if the metric gods could come up with something that isn't quite a meter, but is a lot more than a centimeter.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Hey Dan,
Thanks for the informative reply.
Yes it seems that everything you purchase with the metric label on it costs more. Like everything else, even if the product is made metric in the US the companies that make them add a surcharge (to make more money) because they are "special". It's the same old game of profiteering via non existent additional manufacturing costs - typical: companies screwing people.
As for Chinese and other overseas manufacturers of imported goods, you must understand that our factory machinery was shipped to them as part of the deal resulting in our manufacturing jobs losses. Yes they will keep banging out products on our old machinery until it comes time to replace them, then they will likely drop the Imperial system machines in favor of ISO Metric producing machinery or they will be left with only one customer.

I hope you enjoy your Festool tools, the ones I have seen have been nothing short of engineering design and 
and production masterpieces, pity they cost so much.

Actually this postings contents are largely irrelevant as we will have to embrace the ISO Metric system, like it or not, just to survive in the future. That's why it is so important for us to learn more about it and educate our children. Many of us are too set in our ways to change, and that is OK so for these just keep using what you are happy with.
Old Saying: You can't teach an old dog new tricks---BUT what about puppies?


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

jason…..decimeter..ive never had any cases that i used it tho


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Mark:
What is better, someones Feet in your Yard or just m&m's


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## DanLyke (Feb 8, 2007)

Roger, yep, all valid points. Unfortunately I'd love to be designing products that'll have a market for anywhere near as long as it'll take China (or the local machine shops) to start replacing those machines. It seems like "next Christmas" is always the target, and a product which stays on a production line for a few years is a huge hit.

And the other thing is that… really… in woodworking, at least, I find myself using units less and less. Especially with the Talmeters acting as story sticks, but also with story sticks, more often I'm taking my reference measurement and matching that. If I have to transcribe a value to numbers, I've lost precision. Far better that I can work off of what actually is, rather than some numbers which represent what is. If I build a jig, or set a fence or a stop, to make a repeatable cut, what matters is repeatability. Actual size only matters when it has to fit somewhere, and then it's better if I use the somewhere as the reference.


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## miles125 (Jun 8, 2007)

Definitely decimals for the ease of calculator use. I found it useful many years ago to learn and know 1/16" increments decimal equivalents by heart just for that purpose.


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

lol…makes sense roger…but that would be ALOT of m'n'ms!


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Mark:
Yeah with a Yard full of m&m's you would have to watch where you put your Foot, else you might fall over and have 2 acres.  ......... but not to worry, a 500mg vicodin tablet will take care of it. )


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

mmm hopefully the vicoden doesnt buzz me with the munchies otherwise the m&ms are gone n I'm huggin the toilet lol


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## rcs47 (Oct 31, 2009)

I always like to strike a balance when I work. So when I need to work in metric, if something is 1250mm, it's 1-1/4 m.


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## Zodosh (Dec 17, 2009)

I have always used the decimal format at every place that I have worked and I find the math easier than fractional math I can do most faction to decimal conversions in my head. I vote for *Decimal*.


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## teenagewoodworker (Jan 31, 2008)

fractions here. i love fractions and i'm fairly proficient in them. I've always had a pretty good mind for math but i find fractions easier. they are a good way to set your tools and there is no messing around with say .03125 which is 1/32nd. for me 1/32nd is just easier because i can get more precise.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

Fractions here.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Dan: Okay, you made a reasonable argument for fractions in certain situations. But when I said metric made more sense, I was thinking in terms of "12 inches = a foot", "5,280 feet = 1 mile", as opposed to metric which follows a logical progression.

I work in imperial in my shop because that's the way I learned, and that's what I'm used to. But it seems to me that it's a hack of a lot easier, say if I'm trying to find the center of a piece of stock, to figure half of 370mm than to figure half of 9 and 7/16 inches. Sure I know how to do that math, but doing it on the fly in the middle of a project, it's easy to mess up.


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## CanadaJeff (Jul 8, 2008)

It will probably never happen, but metric is the way to go. Universal, to all, easy and standard to follow. But having said that, if I have to choose between fractions and imperial. Fractions, they are less annoying to deal with.

Viva la metric system!!!!


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

quite a response eh!

great thread

I know one thing and that if everything were deciphered in an absolute language, absolute measurements in equall divisions and in increments of ten

how would you measure a rose's fragrance….............

sometimes fractions work for some, for others its all about a decimal point. For hundreds of years, a trade evolved into guilds, guilds into groups of folks for, and against change, and …......... send an app to the British Master Craftsmen Guild…...........in metric. Tell them you have "stones"............they might even read it????

once again I say….......it doesnt matter what your bench looks like, nor your chisels, nor how many planes you own or what kind of planes you own. The wood doesnt give two ********************s if you measure it in imperial or metric and to be quite honest I doubt it cares if you have the most perfectly crafted European bench, or a set of saw horses…...........wood,like money and measurements doesnt have a conscience….........it simply doesnt care about how its measured, even a stick can do a better job then most folks can do with a tape measure, be it fractional or decimal. If I might go on…...............

My tape measures have metric on one side, Imperial on the other, doesnt matter if I'm on the aft side, the bow, the stern, in front of a table saw or behind a table saw….........I can still read the number in mm, in cm, in m and k and feet and miles, yards or meters, move the decimal point to the right.the left or add and subtract yet one more fractional division.

When I take my last breath, all you folks who forgot your history….......u and I will repeat it some day. History has shown that again and again and again those who lack common sense suffer the least.????

God Speed


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

the way some talk about metric would leave me to believe that some day my great grandchildren or maybe my children will be Muslims…..........no offence to Islam or anyone else but metric certainly isnt the be all and end all of woodworking….............not even by a margin of .0001 mm

it's a craft, not a science !


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## JimDaddyO (Dec 20, 2009)

I am in Canada and use both. Decimals and fractions. I use decimals in both metric and Imperial, but fractions only in Imperial.
I have worked as a CNC operator for years and to tolerances of < 5 microns (.005 mm). 
I think there is a time for each. For example: In wood working I generally use fractions, but in checking the flatness of my table saw, I found a bow of .030".


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

Like I mentioned about how I work on commercial jobsites. As a carpenter we all have a tape thats two sided with both imperial and metric. But then we also have the carpenters (mainly older/retirees) who have just imperial because theyre stubborn like that lol. They only want measurements in what they prefer. You could give them a metric measurement and they'll yell back at you "give it t me in english!" etc. We mainly use imperial but concrete work and government jobs are all done in metric. It sucks in a way because no matter what job you're n people are always using both so your mind is flicking back n fourth between the two. But I still have my foot down on imperial. I'm better mathematicly with fractions myself than decimals. But anyone I teach in the future ( apprentices, kids, my own kids) I will teach them both. Its how I was raised and I'm fluent now and I don't want others to be stupid when they hear a number up in the thousands and are measuring in inches across the jobsite..lol


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

Roman: and yess this thread turned out alot better than i expected…i didnt expect all this politics..lol alll i asked was which do you prefer? lol


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Hey guys, yes this has been a really good thread. It has explained LJs preferences, determined the future measuring units, reasons for clinging to the Imperial system and reasons for embracing the Metric system and as an added ingredient we had some humor too. All points made are valid for the individual user, and like Forrest Gump might have said: "LJs is like a box of chocolates …........"

This is why LJs is the place to be ….let's keep it like this.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Oh, I forgot to mention that we also got a lesson in what the Law says. And for some LJs - Don't be surprised if government weights and measures agents surround your shop with a swat team, then my friends you WILL have to give and inch. lol


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Roger, doesn't Texas have its own system of measurement involving "cow patties"?


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## rowdy (Dec 22, 2008)

Well, guys, I have read most of this thread now and it is clear that there will never be any consensus on the matter. So why don't we just give up and all start measuring everything in hoobies? LOL!


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Hey Charlie, no wrong man, it's 10 Gallons equals 1 Hat (yeah it's metric!) lol
I'm told you guys down there in the swamp use Crawdads to measure with.
Did you also notice that from the responses that nobody seems to be using Cubits. Apparantly no LJs are building Pyramids or Arks much today. )))


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

My dad was a surveyor and civil engineer. I could bring up arpents, rods, perches, and french feet….. but this water looks muddy enough already.


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

well for rough estimated measurements…

end of elbow to wrist= 12"

end of elbow to knuckles (fist) = 16"

and thats imperial…lol

or do what i did as a kid…the with of your pinky is approx one cm (i dont knwo about now) and i measured everything in pinkies lol


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## DanLyke (Feb 8, 2007)

When "rowdy" mentioned measuring in "hoobies", I have to admit that I misread it at first. When Charlie M. mentioned "french feet", I thought maybe this was a trend I could get behind. I suppose there'd have to be some sampling to come up with the reference values…

This thread is motivating me to make a few more story sticks and calipers so that I have to put units to less stuff.


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## boboswin (May 23, 2007)

I like to use a story stick because it's metric and imperial.


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