# Hinges for smaller boxes



## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

I finally got to the point on my list to make a box. Not an Andy box or Brit box yet, but a simple box. I wanted to include some inlay like Jim Finn does in the top. My after build list of lessons learned is long and I am confident the next box will get me past some of the issues.

My real issue is the blasted hinges. If cost wasn't an issue, the Brusso hinges would win in a heat beat. My intent is to have a hinge with minimal showing on the outside. I bought an inexpensive set at Woodcraft, but had to recess they quite a bit into the lid and side to have the lid shut flat. I expect to route out for the hinge to mount, just don't want it as far recessed.

What are some suggestions, tips or advise? Are there hinges in the 3/4" by 1 1/2" size that have the rotating pin offset so the hinge is flat?



















BTW - box is 6" square by 3" high, cherry sides and maple backing for the inlay. Just BLO with Briwax.

Steve.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

I've had good luck with soss hinges.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_4?url=search-alias%3Dtools&field-keywords=soss+invisible+hinge&sprefix=soss%2Ctools%2C

Nice inlay on your box, well done!


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

SOSS are great hinges. Their smallest size (100) are too risky for me on 1/2" sides, plus the lid would have to be thicker. Best price of $20 doesn't work well in my market for a smaller box.

Steve.


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

I use the 5mm barrel hinge from woodcraft amazingly strong and almost hidden

used them in over 6k boxes so far never a return because of hinge failure real good product I use them on humidors and any box I build cheap the best part.


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

Pono - I have a couple sets of the SOSS barrel hinges in my shop, but haven't figured out how to install them properly so they are aimed in the right direction. I really should just try a set on something. Any tips on aiming or gluing them to install?

Steve.


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

Pono - Do you use a fractional drill bit for the 5mm? I don't have any metric bits at present.
Steve.


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## northeaster (Jul 30, 2011)

Is gluing even always necessary, since they come with an expander bolt?


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Pono - I have a couple sets of the SOSS barrel hinges in my shop, but haven't figured out how to install them properly so they are aimed in the right direction. I really should just try a set on something. Any tips on aiming or gluing them to install?

Practice on some scrap Steve. After awhile, you'll be real good at it.


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

Played in the sawdust box a bit this morning.

The 5 mm barrel hinges that I have need the rear edge to be beveled or rounded, which I need to think about. These were not SOSS and didn't have the mechanism for a hidden design.

I also had some 10 mm SOSS barrel hinges. Since the box was for development and learning anyway I took a run at it with those. The 10 mm says it can be used in 1/2" wood and after my trial it is no problem. Just to check fractional drill bit sizes, I measured the OD of the barrel and chose a drill. First experiment was using plywood and the hole was too small, so I moved up 1/64". Experiment went good, so on to the box. Drilling in the cherry lid, the larger bit gave too loose of a fit even with the screw to move the side out. I went back to the 1/64" smaller for the box side and it was just right. Second real problem came with the lid being only 1/2" thick and the hinges needing about 5/8" depth to fit flush. Add that to the "who needs a reference fence for the drill to be right distance from the edge" debacle, which caused the lid to be canted. As I have said, this box was for learning.

Actually the double bevel inlay was much easier than the box.

Steve.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

LIGHT APPLICATIONS ONLY

http://www.soss.com/images/catalog/Barrel-Hinge-Group.jpg

U.I.P. # Min. Door Drill Bit Drill Bit Dimensions (mm)
Thickness (mm) (in.) A B C D min. E max.
BH084 7/16" 8 mm Letter "O" 8 9.6 11.6 1.9 1.1
BH104 1/2" 10 mm 25/64" 10 11 16.5 2.5 2
BH124 5/8" 12 mm 15/32" 12 13.5 20 2.5 2
BH144 3/4" 14 mm 35/64" 14 15.5 23 3 3
BH164 7/8" 16 mm 5/8" 16 16.5 25 3 3
BH184 11/8" 18 mm 45/64" 18 17.5 27 3 3
BH244 11/4" 24 mm 15/16" 24 25 36.5 3.5 3.5

How about soss barrel hinges?


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

I will post some pictures of the process I use to hinge ,works pretty good and fast and easy once you get it down.Woodcraft should have the matching bit for the hinges I make the sides 3/8" thick cuts down on wood movement and you can get 2 boxes from a 1" board.you w









You will have to cut the 45 degree on the top and bottom after you drill the holes


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

waho6o9 - Now how would I have thought to go to the actual product website for information? I went there and found out all I need and more. Then I Googled the BH104 and found pricing at 50% of Woodcraft from at least two online sources. That pricing puts them in the right ball park.

I downloaded the drawing (PDF) for the hinge and now know how I should set up a template. That could become another saga.

I just jointed, planed and cut down wood for box #2. I'm going to change a few dimensions so the hinges will work per the drawing. Updates to come.

Steve.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

nice inlay Steve.


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

Jim - I used a lot of your notes from LJ and Scrollsawer on double bevel. I fully understand why you keep one saw set at the angle, I don't have that available now.

Steve.


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## woody123 (May 7, 2009)

You can still use the cheaper hinges by swagging (sp?) the hinge. I take the little hinge and put it in my vise or hammer them flat. That way the box will close flat with little(the thickness of one wing of the hinge) morticing. This is the way I do it.

My .02


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## KentS (May 27, 2009)

Steve, I just did a blog on installing barrel hinges. Maybe it will help a bit.

http://lumberjocks.com/KentS/blog/29058

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=270&site=ROCKLER
There are other sites that are cheaper if you buy in larger quantities.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I just apply the hinges to the outside of the box like this.


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## Johnnyblot (Mar 2, 2012)

Hi folks
Its not my intention to cause trouble here, but if I can give a different view- I've done a couple of boxes. The first was on a week end course with Andrew Crawford, here in Shropshire England. 
www.fine-boxes.com/
He also has his own hinge now- Smart Hinge. ( not cheap). However I too found that the hinge fitting is the trickiest part of box making. 
I have found that using a steel screw first to cut the thread in the hole helps. Brass screws tend to break off. 
Also there is a section in the book The Essential Woodworker by Robert Wearing, now being reprinted by Lost Art Press ( Chris Shwarz) that gives a detailed example of how to fit hinges. Not for boxes per se, but excellent technique. 
Hope this of interest. 
John


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

The SOSS drawings for 10mm and 12mm are available in PDF format.
For 10mm barrels
http://www.soss.com/product/cad/drawings/BH104.pdf
For 12mm barrels
http://www.soss.com/product/cad/drawings/BH124.pdf

The 10mm drawing shows that a 2.5mm gap is recommended between the lid and box. 
The 12mm drawing shows that a 3.5mm gap is recommended between the lid and box.

I am considering making a jig.

As Kent's blog states, you need to be precise in the hole placements with these.

Steve.


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

Johnnyblot - I was to www.fine-boxes.com/ during my internet searches for box hinges. His boxes are truly an art form. His "smart hinges" are similar to Brusso hinge design with a few improvements he points out. Actually, I enjoyed his critique of other hinges and his solution. At $60 (USD) a pair, they are better suited to +$1,000 boxes or his custom unique +$5,000 USD boxes.

Smart Hinge

Steve.


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

Woody123 - I'm going to try your "take the little hinge and put it in my vise or hammer them flat." If I learn not to make them too ugly in the vise or with the mallet it could be good for some of the boxes.

Steve.


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## 489tad (Feb 26, 2010)

Steve, as the others have said barrel or soss hinges work very well. I just recently finished a jewelry box using soss 1 hinges in 1/2" stock. I made a router jig and set the depth so I would go just the right amount.

When I use the barrel hinges I made a drill jig that could locate from both sides of the lid and bottom. Same jig, same hole location. No problems.

Good luck.


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## Johnnyblot (Mar 2, 2012)

Hi Steve.
you are right of course, most times you cannot justify that sort of money for a hinge. 
Good luck chaps. Tally Ho! 
John


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

Johnnyblot - Can you post a picture of the box made at the class? The ones in his gallery, he made, show a lot of challenging craftsmanship.

Steve.


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

Pono - I tried the 5mm barrel hinges and was surprised at my success. A key thing was probably finding a 5mm brad point drill at Woodcraft yesterday. I think that I drilled the holes too far from the back edge because the hinges pull out after opening and then there is a gap. I increased the bevel, but think putting the inset at 1/4" from the edge might be the issue. What distance do you put yours in from the edge?

Woody123 - I tried your squashing method and it shows real promise. I need to figure out how to mortise the sides when the boxes are this small. I'm considering a contrasting color veneer around the box that is same thickness as the hinge metal. I'll try iron on edge banding.

Woody123/Jim - One of my technique challenges with small screw mounted hinges is to drill the pilot holes for the hinges. The screws being so small and light really need them. With a 1/16" drill it seems to drift with the grain enough for the hole to be off center from where I want. I tried using a pointed dental pick to mark the hole center, but that didn't really help. Any tips for centering a small diameter pilot hole?

Steve.


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## JoeyG (Mar 19, 2011)

Hi Steve, I use brass or aluminum rods, or sometimes just nails.

















in the next picture you can just make out the pin.

Here is the link to how I do it.

http://lumberjocks.com/JoeyG/blog/26832

Hope this gives you some more ideas

Joey


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## Johnnyblot (Mar 2, 2012)

Steve 
Here are a few photo's of the Jewellry Box I made on the box-making weekend I spent with Andrew Crawford, Nov '08. 
It is Walnut with Maple banding.


















Here you can see the hinges, that have been radiussed and polished.









We did not have time to finish fitting the hinges on the weekend, so they were fitted back at home. I did struggle to fit them properly. I guess Andrew now goes into the theory more than we did at the time?









Cheers
John


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

I really like the inlay and hardware. The lid center seems different from the rest of the box, is it a veneer or just the lighting?

You should post it as a project, a lot of people would like to see it.

Steve.


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## Johnnyblot (Mar 2, 2012)

Steve
The lid and the base are Walnut veneer. The box is made as one piece then the lid is cut off. It is all very simple really.
I'll try to post as a project. I'll have to find out how?
Cheers.


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## Johnnyblot (Mar 2, 2012)

Steve.
I've posted this and another box as projects here also I have a photo of the lining- Planing thin stock that I was trying to describe earlier in this thread.


















I hope it is of interest?
Cheers,

John.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Some great hinge advice here, guys. The best solution I've found so far to dealing with hinges is to avoid them like the plague. If the box I'm making is small enough for a hand to easily grasp the top, I usually opt for a friction-fit lid.


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

Charlie - My plan B is a lift off lid with feature to orient it to the inside edge of the box.


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## Johnnyblot (Mar 2, 2012)

Charlie- I agree 110%


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