# Oilstones - Hall's or Dan's



## nordichomey

Has anyone used any of the Arkansas Surgical Black oilstones from Dan's or Hall's? TFWW sells a few Dan's. Noticed the prices from Hall's was quiet a bit less.

These were all direct sales.


----------



## BubbaIBA

I have a Dan's do not know about Hall's. I also have a Norton's Translucent, in use I can't tell the difference between the Hard Black and the Translucent. Both give about the same sharpness and feel the same to touch.


----------



## BobE

I've got a Hall's soft arkansas. It wasn't very flat when I got it. It took some quality time rubbing the stone on my concrete garage floor with some water to get it flat, but it is a good chunk of stone and Hall's does have pretty decent prices. I also bought a Dan's translucent arkansas. It is a very nice stone, and all sides were dead flat when I got it.


----------



## ShipWreck

I placed an order with these people after some very good reviews.

http://www.naturalwhetstone.com/


----------



## Infernal2

Shipwreck,

Can you give a review when you get the stones? I'm stunned at the cost of those stones and if the quality if up to snuff, I'll place a few orders.


----------



## lwllms

Be careful, there's no legal definition of "Arkansas Stone," "Hard Black Arkansas," or many of the other names the stones are sold under. Make sure what you get is a novaculite stone. Here's a photo of a "Surgical Black" (right) next to a hard black Arkansas novaculite stone (left). The coarse grained stone isn't novaculite and I'm not sure exactly what it is.


----------



## BinghamtonEd

Shipwreck, definitely post in the review section once you get those stones.


----------



## nordichomey

Thanks for the insight. I will do a review once I make a decision. I plan on getting a novaculite AR surgical black. For my courser stone I am trying to decide on a soft Arkansas or Medium India. The India cuts a little quicker from what I understand.


----------



## lysdexic

I ordered a set from Best Sharpening Stones after a favorable write-up by the Schwarzinator.



















I have been happy thus far but they are not as effecient as the Shaptons I have a chance to try. But I like the oiling that my tools get.


----------



## chillywilly

Hey guys, first post

@nordichomey

I have both Dan's and Hall's Arkansas Black. The Dan's stone is a few shades darker and finished really well on all the sides. The Hall's stone is a lot larger, but finished poorly. You can actually see the saw marks left on the sides of the stone. The price difference is huge between the two, 2x more for the Dan's True Black stone 8×3x1 versus a Hall's Surgical Black 12×3x1. Both stones however are nowhere as black as the one on the left from iwiims's pic. The Hall's stone is around the same shade as the one on the right and the Dan's stone is between the two. The Dan's stone polishes my straight razor real well, as well as the translucent from Dan's. The Hall's stone is how do you say, umm forgettable, so far just good for knives. I'm going to lap it a few times around the block on concrete tomorrow and see if it'll get more flat on the sides. One of the long honing side needs to be touched up a bit as well. You get what you pay for.

@ iwiims

May I ask where you got your true black arkansas stones from?


----------



## nordichomey

Here is some insight from Mr. Schwarz.

http://blog.lostartpress.com/2011/07/27/oilstones-waterstones-whatever/


----------



## lysdexic

Yeah, that is the blog entry that led me to Best Sharpening Stones.


----------



## nordichomey

The best stones appear decent. What is their thickness? They appear to be about 1/2".


----------



## lysdexic

I am not at home to check but 1/2" sounds about right. I guess as long as supported on a flat substrate they shouldn't crack. I doubt that I will ever wear a hole in them :^)


----------



## lwllms

I got that dark black stone more than 30 years ago from Russell Knives and I'm not sure of his source. Color isn't really makes the difference I have a Norton black Arkansas slip I've had even longer that has dramatic streaks of white through it but it's a very good stone.

Chris Schwarz didn't quite get it right when he wrote about the places I visited when Don and I went down to Hot Springs. We went to Hall's and Dan's. If I were buying, I'd skip Hall's and look at Dan's. Don and I need to finish up an article for Popular Woodworking about Arkansas stones.


----------



## chillywilly

So after reading these posts, I went on ebay and found me a nice Russell black arkansas 8×2x1 The stone IS completely different from my other black arkansas stones. It's waxy dark gray/black looking and the color of the stone is opaque, beautifully cut and uniformly finished. It's not translucent but it's not grainy looking. I's so glad I got one of these authentic black arkansas. It's supposedly 30+ years old, new in box. $70…..actually priceless.
My second stone I ordered was from naturalwhetstone.com. It was for their largest black translucent at 10×3x1. Let's just say the stone is nothing like the Dan's or Russell's stones. The Dan's stones are very uniform and polished well. The naturalwhetstone.com black translucent is cut almost identical to my Hall's stone. In appearance it's grainy and speckled like the stone from Hall's. One side is 3" and tapers down to 2 3/4" on the other side. One corner is chipped and the edge of one long side is also chipped/cracked. I'll have to lap this stone properly before I use it on my razor, if not, then I'll save it for my engravers. The finish on the ends is actually smoother than on the long face.
Again, you get what you pay for. $200 for a "supposedly" collector's stone. Yeah right.

I really have to learn to put pics up so you guys can see what I mean.


----------



## chillywilly

Hi again. Okay, so after lapping the www.naturalwhetsone.com Black translucent stone for about 2 hours, I'm amazed. I was able to knock off most of the bigger defects off the sides, but in the process made two small dings which don't affect the stone's polishing ability. This stone is probably the hardest stone out of all my translucent stones. It sounds metallic when you rap it with your knuckle. And wow, does it polish. It's a keeper. 
The Russell stone is translucent too. I thought it wasn't because it's so dark. But under an LED light, the edge is translucent. After lapping the black translucent stone from www.naturalwhetstone.com, it's smoother than the Russell's surgical black arkansas stone and as smooth as the Dan's translucent stone I have. So, in order of preference, 
1. Dan's translucent 8×3x1, 2. www.naturalwhetstone.com black translucent 10×3x1, 3. Russell's surgical black (translucent) 8×2x1 4. Dan's black arkansas 8×3x1 and Dan's 8×2x1/2, 5. Norton's translucent 8×2x1, 6. my $2 aluminum oxide dual grit lapping stone 7. Hall's surgical black arkansas 12×3x1, 8. Dan's soft arkansas 8×2x1/2

The top 4 can hone my straight razor to hair popping sharpness. The Norton is only good for my carbon steel engravers. It cuts real well, but doesn't give as fine an edge as the Dan's Black or translucent. The Norton translucent stone is opaque white while the Dan's translucent is more crystal clear like. The weird thing is that the Norton and Dan's translucent cut metal better with pressure than Dan's soft arkansas.

High Carbon steel is much easier to polish with the stones than stainless steel for some reason.

Some of my stones, sorry, the 8×3x1 translucent is cut off partly and the 8×3x1 black true black is completely cut off on the right. The Norton translucent is the second from the left. What a big color difference from the Dan's translucent. The bottom one is the Hall's surgical black. The smaller 8×2x1/2 true black from Dan's is on the very left.









Rearrangement of stones from first pic









Russell and www.naturalwhetstone.com black translucent









Big color difference, the black translucent is so light in color.









Defect on side of black translucent when new. Gone now as I am typing after lapping









chipped edge on the black translucent new out of box


----------



## nordichomey

chillywilly - This is great insight and I appreciate your willingness to share your findings. It will be very helpful in basing my decision. If it was not 92 degrees in my shop right now… wait a minute the reason I am looking at oilstones in the first place was because of freezing temperatures and water stones do not mix. Suspect winter will eventually return. Hopefully soon!


----------

