# Ramset single shot .22 caliber concrete nail gun is total junk



## PeteK (Aug 23, 2016)

Grrrr! Trying to build a built in shelf/pantry in my basement. It's not a huge basement, more of a utility room. But this shelf will fill a 14' wall. Anyways, 2 of the 3 walls it is attaching to are concrete. I don't have a drill for concrete. So I was searching youtube for how people attach 2×4's to concrete and I come across this Ramset concrete nail gun. It was cheaper than a hammer drill so I decided to try it out.

It says right on the package "Great for attaching 2×4's to concrete". I naively thought "hey, I'm attaching 2×4's to concrete, this would be great!". Plus it uses .22 caliber shells to propel the nail, which I thought was kind of cool and it's the same one I saw Denzel Washington killing some dudes with in a movie lol!

Anyways, it's junk. I tried 3" nails and they only went through the wood and maybe 1/2" into the concrete, leaving an inch of nail still sticking out. I thought maybe that was too much nail so I tried 2 1/2" and 2". No luck with any of them and I'm already using the most powerful shell they sell for it. Also crumbled the crap out of the concrete behind it. I even properly did all the surface checks the manual said to do, and according to what it says, my surface was suitable for this tool. This will be one of the few times in my life I have been so disappointed with a product that I intend to return it and complain to Home Depot that they shouldn't sell such a crappy tool.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Get the one from Hilti….


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## squazo (Nov 23, 2013)

I actually went through the same problem not to long ago

I purchased the cobra by ramset which is a .27 not a .22. the strongest charge they sell at the BORG is yellow which is a level 4 but you can get level 5's online, I though level five was the strongest but I was surprised to find that you can get level 6 which is purple. I was so excited I bought reds and purples.

They came in the mail, all to no avail even with a larger caliber than yours and a power level of 150% of the yellows I had the exact same experience. Though I am able to shoot a nail through an entire inch of steel (steel is technically softer than concrete) but this is useless because I have a welder and besides I am able to fairly easily remove said nail from the steel anyways so I know it does not hold well. I live in Louisiana which has some of the hardest concrete in the country maybe that is it. google aggregate map and see how hard your concrete is.

I did not return it because I feel maybe with a pilot hole it will work, and then I will be able to easily have a flush head fastener onto concrete instead of a wedge anchor. Also I hate tap-cons they are useless.


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## cathode (May 18, 2014)

Honestly you must be doing something wrong. I bought the second-cheapest ramset tool, the one with the trigger but you hold your palm against the oversized bulbous end. I used the yellow hi-power shells and managed to get a 3" nail with the washer to bury itself 1/2" into the 2×4 i was trying to nail into the concrete floor of my basement.


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## PeteK (Aug 23, 2016)

> Honestly you must be doing something wrong. I bought the second-cheapest ramset tool, the one with the trigger but you hold your palm against the oversized bulbous end. I used the yellow hi-power shells and managed to get a 3" nail with the washer to bury itself 1/2" into the 2×4 i was trying to nail into the concrete floor of my basement.
> 
> - William Shelley


That's the same model I bought. I'm using the yellow shells as well. I think I just have super hard concrete. It's a 1950's house. Not sure if that makes a difference.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Use the reds, or the black ones…

We used to just drill a "pilot hole" and then use a 16 spike, and a length of form wire….and hammer the spike in.


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## cathode (May 18, 2014)

> That s the same model I bought. I m using the yellow shells as well. I think I just have super hard concrete. It s a 1950 s house. Not sure if that makes a difference.
> 
> - PeteK


Gotcha. Well, could be the concrete, yeah. My house was built in 1926 but I'm not sure if the concrete I'm nailing into is original or not. There's a wide range of strengths of concrete available and theoretically it continues to cure indefinitely.


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## cathode (May 18, 2014)

I guess the other thing to ask, is are you putting a ton of weight behind the tool? It's possible that if it's not held with enough force, then a lot of energy is being lost in recoil.


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## PeteK (Aug 23, 2016)

I was leaning into it pretty good. I don't think much was lost to recoil


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

up the cartridge charge


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Powder actuated tools work best in new construction where the concrete is new. I never liked them. I used a rotor hammer most of my 45 years anchoring to concrete.


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## PeteK (Aug 23, 2016)

> up the cartridge charge
> 
> - robscastle


According to the manual, I'm using the strongest one already


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

OK I hear you,... havent used one for years.
In fact I would be surprised if you can actually buy one in Australia as you would need a firearms licence and then the hassle of buying the cartridges.

These days its a butane cartridge and a pieso trigger to operate it, from memory its a Pasode Brand


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## TungOil (Jan 16, 2017)

Concrete hardness has a lot to do with how effective these powder actuated tools are. My current house has concrete block foundation walls and I can drive nails with my ramset all day without any issues. My last house had a poured concrete foundation and even with the heaviest charge I had a very hard time driving nails- they would either not set fully or would blow out the face of the concrete (or both). Sometimes coming behind the first charge with a second will drive it the rest of the way. I gave up on that tool for most work and bought a decent hammer drill and just use tap con's now.


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

> Powder actuated tools work best in new construction where the concrete is new.
> 
> - TopamaxSurvivor





> Concrete hardness has a lot to do with how effective these powder actuated tools are.
> 
> - TungOil


Totally agree with these two posts. A couple years ago, I spent several months working with Hilti to try and find a faster solution for a local carpet place nailing down tack strip to concrete. It was ultra high PSI concrete that had been poured in the 50's for slab construction houses on what was then an air base. The Hi rep about drove himself nuts trying to prove that they had a good solution, but everything thrown at the concrete would just dimple it and not penetrate. There was not a single powder actuated tool or load Hilti made that would fully sink nails into the slabs.

The only solution for the carpet installers was a rotary hammer.

Sounds like the Ramset tool is working fine and you just have really hard concrete that needs a different solution.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

I have a Simpson strongtie gun that works pretty well, but it too has issues with older, really tough concrete. Working with concrete that's not too old or firing into steel it can be a real time saver. Anything that's achieved the kind of strength your concrete likely has is much easier to drill and use tapcons with.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

What was said above, they work best in green concrete. I've had luck putting up partition walls in a garage with a concrete floor but it depends on the concrete - some areas held fast and others blew the concrete apart. I don't think I would trust them to hold shelving to a wall - I'd go with a freestanding unit myself.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

The older the concrete, the less likely a ramset will work. It is great when it does work because it is fast and easy but sometimes other methods are required.


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## Kazooman (Jan 20, 2013)

The hammer drill and tapcon screws is the way to go, but it doesn't mean you are home free. The hammer drill can be cutting like a hot knife through butter and then it hits a big pice of aggregate. Things slow down in a hurry. On several occasions I have just quit with that hole and started over in a new spot. The other frustration can come from a piece of aggregate that you managed to drill through or just missed. The threads on the tapcons don't like it at all. My poured walls are about forty years old and they prove to be a real challenge.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

And, hope you don't hit rebar on the way in….


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## Wright571 (Oct 5, 2016)

Instead of trying to nail the board to the wall, how about using construction adhesive similar to this 10.1 oz. Polyurethane Construction Adhesive
Seems like its made specifically for bonding concrete and wood. If your still concerned maybe use some regular concrete screws or the bolt/anchor in a few spots to supplement.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

I thought concrete continues to cure forever. So the older it is the harder it is (assuming the presence of some water). My house is from the 30s and had thick concrete walls on each side of the driveway( 18 inches wide), we wanted to widen the driveway, so they had to come down. Using a 4 pound maul and cold chisel I could barely break off pea sized pieces (it took a large bobcat to knock them down), but using the same maul and chisel I could easily shape the concrete retaining blocks we put in.

My father-in-law was a general contractor, when I asked him about it 20 years back he chuckled and said concrete continues to get harder.


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## JADobson (Aug 14, 2012)

> Instead of trying to nail the board to the wall, how about using construction adhesive similar to this 10.1 oz. Polyurethane Construction Adhesive
> Seems like its made specifically for bonding concrete and wood. If your still concerned maybe use some regular concrete screws or the bolt/anchor in a few spots to supplement.
> 
> - Wright571


This!

I just finished my basement and used PL400 (not sure if that is available in the states: http://www.lepage.ca/en/lepage-products/construction-adhesive/pl-construction-adhesive/subfloor-adhesive.html) works great. To keep the board in place while the glue dries I drilled a 1/8" hole in the 2×4 and then switched to a 1/8" masonry bit to drill an inch or two into the concrete. Then take two 3" nails and drive them both into the hole until they jam then bend over whatever is sticking above the 2×4. This keeps it from moving around until the glue dries.

I accidently glued over a doorway and when I cut the 2×4 from the doorway I had to use a crowbar to remove the board. It took up a fair amount of concrete. These aren't going anywhere.


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## PineSucks (Aug 3, 2015)

Have you reset the depth setting on the side of the gun? I use one all the time and never have issues like these.


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## PeteK (Aug 23, 2016)

I don't think it has a depth setting. I'm thinking I may have been a bit hasty saying the tool is total junk. I think I just have really hard concrete. But that means the tool is pretty much useless to me. I may keep it since we plan to build a new house in the future it might come in handy.


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

id suggest renting a hammer drill for the job.
or
is it possible to have the shelving unit tall enough to attach the top to the floor joists?


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

Best way to anchor something into concrete is a hilti kwik bolt or something like that. Those bolts can support a lot of weight. like tomsteve said rent a hammer drill and you can have it done in no time. powder actuated tools are hit and miss


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## DirtyMike (Dec 6, 2015)

Cut nails and a hammer?


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## RogR (Jan 12, 2016)

> This!
> 
> I just finished my basement and used PL400 (not sure if that is available in the states: http://www.lepage.ca/en/lepage-products/construction-adhesive/pl-construction-adhesive/subfloor-adhesive.html) works great.


PL400 is available (under a different brand) @ Home Depot. I have used it to anchor interior walls where the concrete was too hard, and it absolutely will not let go - even if you set the wall and run a bead tightly down each side.

Just about any good polyurethane adhesive will bond so tightly to clean concrete that the concrete will break before the glue gives up. I often use it as insurance at door openings to prevent the drywallers from knocking the framing out of plumb.


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## wuddoc (Mar 21, 2008)

Concrete hardens with age. In order to determine if a powder actuated tool would work I use to use a surface PSI tester. Maybe you could find someone who has one.

https://www.pce-instruments.com/us/index.htm?id=google-us&_artnr=2132888&_p=473&_pmode=0&_pbexkey=73&_date=20170210013836&_pbhash=3386fa940a5ea15f7efdd4af22cccd16c3922a5a702bf464021e05d050e360ca&gclid=COGB7NuBh9ICFZQ7gQodhcgB5A


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

What everyone pointing out about older concrete equals harder concrete is correct. I've come up against the same problem you're having Pete. I had to call my Hilti salesman and get diamond tipped pins. Even then I could only use 2" pins in 2×4s. Downward pressure. I had to build a wood deck over an old concrete porch. Not sure if diamond tipped pins are available for Ramset.

For most concrete applications, powder activated tools work best when used to pin a material (wood / metal) to concrete and then framing is applied wedging the structure into place as not to allow lateral movement of the frame.

For fastening 2×4s to a concrete wall Tapcon screws will give you better results and hold better over the long run.
You may possibly be able to rent a hammer drill. Hammer drills that use the snap in drill bits (SDS) will cost more but are actually cheaper in the long run if you have a lot of holes to drill, and the drills last longer too compared drill with a typical chuck.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Rotary Hammer is the correct name for efficient concrete drilling and anchoring. Hammer drills with a drill chuck aren't much good for anything but a couple small holes or drilling a little cinder block.


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## Hermit (Oct 9, 2014)

Having worked in commercial construction, we always used red shot for what youre trying to do. It's also best to set the nail with a hammer first so it's almost all the way through the 2×4 before you fire. Another alternative is to rent a roto-hammer.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

After you return the ramset use that refund towards a bosch bulldog. It's a handy tool works great driving lag bolts also


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Never heard or thought of using my bulldog to drive lag bolts. So I looked it up.

Thanks corelz125 for the friendly advice.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

I use the hf impact sockets on that attachment


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

> After you return the ramset use that refund towards a bosch bulldog. It s a handy tool works great driving lag bolts also
> 
> - corelz125


Mine is at least 30 years old, probably a million holes and still going strong ;-)


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

I bought one of HF's pneumatic concrete nailers. Like with others, my basement walls date back to 1953, so the concrete is extremely hard. The nails simply blew out the concrete or crumpled. Not the fault of the nailer, but the fact the concrete was too hard.

Ended up drilling and using either concrete nails or screws. I was just hanging 3/4" furring strips, so was using 1/4" fasteners. The 7/32" drills for these were a big disappointment, as the carbide would break off after just a few holes, and they would bend easily also.

I tried construction adhesive, but the walls had been whitewashed, and the glue would soon let go.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

A good carbide drill in a roto hammer should make lots of holes in the hardest concrete. They are a lot different that the cheapie hammer drill bits.


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## tmasondarnell (Jul 2, 2013)

Just a note on concrete getting harder as it gets older.

That is true, but not the way most people think.

As concrete cures, it does get stronger. A concrete mix is rated by its compressive strength (e.g. 3000 psi, 5000 psi, etc). After 28 days from the initial pour, you are at 75% of the full rated strength of the mix. At 90 days, you are 98% of the compressive strength. After 90 days, at a diminishing rate, the concrete will continue to close the gap between 98% and 100%.

The concrete, however, will not get significantly harder after 90 days and will never be harder than the composition of the original mix. A 3000 psi mix will not become a 5000 psi mix after 20 years.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

A hilti or powers sds drill bit will last many holes i drilled thru small rebar with those bits


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## teejk02 (Apr 27, 2015)

I tried nailing into concrete walls once and decided never again. Seems that any gap between the wood and the wall would lead to a "blowout"...further to that, older walls were poured in the forms and only hand tamped, leaving large voids around the aggregate. I leave the .22 loads now to securing floor plates.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

> Just a note on concrete getting harder as it gets older.
> 
> That is true, but not the way most people think.
> 
> ...


Does it become more brittle or prone to chipping?


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## Bill1974 (Mar 24, 2010)

I would bite the bullet and rent a rotatory hammer drill for a few hours. Forget the hammer drill unless its only a couple of holes or its new or soft concrete. Then use tapcons or expanding anchors. Even if I am drilling two holes I usually take out the rotatory hammer drill, it really that much faster and sure to make it through just about any concrete. If you are drilling a lot of holes in hard concrete, a tapcon sized bit in a rotatory hammer only lasts about 75 holes. Also don't buy the cheap bits at the borg, get the bosch or similar quality brand.


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## JADobson (Aug 14, 2012)

Forget the drills. Just glue.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

I tried to glue 1/2 furring strips to my basement walls, which were whitewashed. Worked great-for a few minutes. Then the strips started falling off the walls.

Had to drill and pin. Used several types, including the blue screws and the split pins (don't know their official name).


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Maybe just get a large box of Redhead anchors, and be done with it?

The "gun" I used was a Hilti .28 cal.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

PeteK what did you decide to go with?


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