# Most Dangerous Tool?



## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

What do you all consider the most dangerous tool in your shop. Not counting modified/homemade stuff like Greg's circular saw. Statistically the table saw is probably #1 but I'm comfortable with mine. My worst injury has been with a table mounted router.


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## DamnYankee (May 21, 2011)

Most of my injuries have come from either a ladder (falling off or with it), or my cordless drill (dirver bit popping out of screw and into hand), or a hammer.

I've yet to be injured - mionr or major - by a power cutting tool


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Radial Arm Saw?


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## Rice_Eater (Feb 1, 2011)

I suspect the easiest to hurt yourself with might be a router.

Heck, I've even managed to take a nice bit of skin off my knuckles with 40 grit sandpaper when someone walked up behind me.

I've been thinking about installing light-beam-switch activated chime to sound whenever someone walks into the shop. You know, like that sound when you walk into liqueur store or something, ding….

That way nobody walks up behind me and catches me off guard as I'm focused on doing something.


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

I tend to agree with the doctor about believing that the table saw is the most dangerous tool in the shop. But from personal experience more of my carpenter/woodworking peers have drawn blood from the power miter saw over the years than any other power tool we use.


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## LittlePaw (Dec 21, 2009)

My worst injury was on the band saw many years ago - cut half way through my thumb. That was a wake up call loud and clear for me to be extra careful, know the rules and go the extra step to prevent something bad from happening. Since then I've had several table saw kick backs, but the pieces all shot past me as the result of making sure I wasn't standing directly behind the blade. The router either mounted or free hand can be pretty wild at times, depending on the wood, hot sweaty hands, taking off running. Whenever routing, I don't do it if I were even a little tired because it is a powerful tool that can be hard to hang on to. The most dangerous one is me - when I am complacent, cocky or careless . . . that's when bad things could happen.


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## GaryC (Dec 31, 2008)

Lathe Scares me…..


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## rustfever (May 3, 2009)

Hand held power saw. Skil Saw. 35 yrs ago I nearly cut off my left hand. Good Dr. put it back into position and I can now use it…......somewhat.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Gary - Me too. That's the main reason I don't have one and don't plan to get one!


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

I haven't injured myself yet…but I think that if I do get injured it will be with the router or the mitre saw. Both are easy to get distracted for an instant with disastrous results.


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## oldskoolmodder (Apr 28, 2008)

Router always is something to fear, though the worst WW injury I had was 3 years ago this week, when I allowed my thumb to take a vacation on either side of my table saw blade. I'd never seen a thumb imitate a snakes tongue before that…


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## DamnYankee (May 21, 2011)

Personnally I think the most dangerous tool in my workshop is ME!
There has never been an accident in my workshop that I was not a part of.
Complancy, lack of attention, doing something stupid, in a hurry, too tired…etc, It all comes back on the operator.


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## oldskoolmodder (Apr 28, 2008)

very true Rob


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

I have a lot of respect for my shaper.


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## Woodwrecker (Aug 11, 2008)

I pay extra attention when using the table saw or the lathe.
I'm as careful as can be with all my tools, but it seems like those two have a mind of their own.


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## TJ65 (Jan 19, 2010)

anything that moves!


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## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

I gotta go with what DYankee said. Me and my concentration.

All the things that can shoot, cut, abrade or twist with more torque than I can overcome are dangerous. I am not afraid of any of them, but I have much respect for all of them.


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## gabriel (Apr 8, 2011)

I am the most dangerous tool in my shop.


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## cloakie1 (May 29, 2011)

most dangerous tool is when someone else walks in when you least expect it..regardless what you are doing.
we used to have an old desouter drill that i was scared of….it had so much torque that if it bit you tended to hang on tighter and then it would throw you…..


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

Ever hear the expression about dull blades being more dangerous than sharp ones? My worst on the job injury so far has been from a putty knife! I was prying up some vinyl flooring when I slipped, tried to catch myself, and dug the blade into my other arm so deep that I could see the tendons popping around. I'm pretty lucky I didn't sever any of them, not to mention veins, arteries, or nerves for that matter!


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## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

Good God What a Gash !


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## Billp (Nov 25, 2006)

Severed 4 tendons with a chisel.Instead of clamping the leg down to square up the smallest edge of an insert. I held it in my hand, the chisel broke through, One of the dumbest things I have ever done.I have partial use of the hand today. It doesn't always have to be a power tool to be dangerous.


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## grittyroots (Jan 13, 2011)

I have Shot myself with a nail gun, i've run myself over with my own truck and i've got CA glue in my eye. so my most dangerous tool is me.


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## NH_Hermit (Dec 3, 2009)

I agree with all the above, but if I were to rank them it would be: (1). Me. I force myself to concentrate. (2).Chain saw used to rough cut blanks for the lathe. This process is now gone since I've a band saw. (3). Circular saw (Skil saw). Although I've been using one for 50+ years now, I still treat it with the upmost respect. (4). Table saw. (5). Chisels. (6). Can't forget hammers. I can't count the number of times I've hit a thumb. (7). The router, band saw, and miter saw need mentioning. Actually, (1a). The tool that's in my hand at that time.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

SalvageCraft has it right … the most dangerous tool in the shop is a dull tool.

-Gerry


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

SalvageCraft- I gotta say I am pretty freaked out- not from the cut, but form the fact that that I can see into your arm AND THERE IS NO BLOOD! Are you from this world?

Stationary belt sanders are very dnagerous. You always think you can hold a piece on that spinning belt but all it takes is a little slip and you've sanded away a fingernail…

The worst injury I ever had was from a chisel I stuck through my hand. In fact I've cut myself more times with chisels, sometimes from stupidity, most of the time just by brushing against one in the rack, that I've begun keeping a needle and thread on the workbench.


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## miles125 (Jun 8, 2007)

The shaper earns my most respect. I once had a knife break and embed itself in the tin roof of the building.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Of course, the most dangerous thing in the shop is beer.

Why? Because if you spill it on the table saw it could rust!


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## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

My guess would be the table saw. For me its because its used so much. Getting cut, kick back, etc are always on my mind. I always keep my senses clear when its running.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

Stumpy- thats why we have granite table tops on our saws…. will you ever learn?

back to the thread - I think every tool is dangerous, but probably any tool that can kickback and pull your hand into the cutter/blade is more so dangerous than others (router, shaper,table saw, miter saw, radial arm saw) as they can really catch you off guard in a blink of an eye. FWIW I always try to anticipate this and make sure I'm pushing in a direction away form the cutter/blade or using a push block and thinking "what if" quite often. can't say how much that helps in terms of quantity, but its definitely another prevention step one can take.


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

StumpyNubs - Not sure if this will leave you less freaked out or not, but from a young age I was taught to lick my cuts clean. The saliva quickens coagulation and kills bacteria. Always done this and never had any worries about infection.


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## tyskkvinna (Mar 23, 2010)

The biggest injury I've experienced in the shop was with the planer…! I had a chunk of a knot fly out when a large board was going through and it caused quite the bloody dent in my leg. It was a very interesting lesson for me because it is a tool I generally consider "easy to be safe", since your hands aren't anywhere near the knives.

Overall though I consider the CNC lathe to be the most dangerous. When you are using a manual lathe you can at least gauge a little bit if something feels wrong, though of course in most of the instances you won't have enough warning to DO anything about it. With the CNC, it can be hogging away at something and you could be across the room… and it will throw it at you. Fortunately we've never had an incident, but I continually shoo people away when they want to crowd around it to see what it's doing.


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

TheDane - Especially when the dull tool is yourself, huh?


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

By far the most dangerous tool is the one you are MOST comfortable with (and thus less attentive with when using).

For me, it has been the extension ladder:
1. Year ago Labor Day, I fell 16-18' after the foot of the ladder slid out from under me. I had 23 fractures of my ribs and backbone vertebrae/transverse-processes all on the right side. I had gotten careless about setting the foot of the ladder on the drop cloth. Spent a week in ICU. Doah!

2. Couple of years ago I almost electrocuted myself on the extension ladder when using a pry bar too close to a live outlet. I was firmly gripping the aluminum ladder with my OTHER hand, it was very hot outside and I was very sweaty. I could just feel the electricity traveling along the surface of my skin down one arm, across the chest, and up/out the other arm that was gripping the ladder. As I was standing there in the electrical death grip, the ladder started bouncing to the left and eventually pulled me away from the live wire. This time I managed to catch the ladder, and myself, BEFORE it fell. Double Doah!


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*cr1-* Spoken like a person whose selfconfidence is about to cost him a hand…

*NH_Hermit-* I know what you mean about the dangers of using chainsaws in the workshop! Last year I finally said NO MORE to using my chainsaw to open varnish cans! But I still have the nasty habit of using the tip of the chainsaw to push my safety glasses up when they slide down the bridge of my nose…

*SalvageCraft-* That doesn't freak me out at all. In fact I often let my dog lick my wounds clean. Her little tongue can really get around the scabs, and the saying "the dog's mouth is cleaner than yours" is really true! It also works wonders on that hard to get ear wax, much more comfortable than a Q-tip…


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## CarlFisher (Aug 16, 2011)

I personally always consider the most dangerous tool in the shop, the one I am currently working with.

Any tool can be dangerous if you don't give it your full attention and properly prepare to use it. Safety equipment, support equipment (feather boards, stop blocks, guards), maintenance and condition of the tool, etc.. should all be considered before putting the tool to use each and every time.


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

They all can have their moments. I am most comfortable with the table saw because I use it the most. However, I think it has the most injury potential. I was hit with some kickback about 6 weeks ago by a piece of quarter round. Did a couple things wrong to allow it to happen, took it right to the gut at about 100mph. Hurt my pride most, but I had a nasty bruise, and a perfect imprint of what a piece of quarter round should look like stamped on me. Still got it as a reminder. It was a good lesson, thankfully still have all my fingers.


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## agallant (Jul 1, 2010)

Anything with a powered blade.


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## danr (Sep 5, 2009)

Hey any of you shaper owners/operators…..

I do not own a shaper but plan to someday. I have used big panel raising bits in a router table for many years and I have to admit when that much metal is spinning around its a bit un-nerving. I have never had any injuries or even close calls. I always make sure to use feather boards and push sticks and only take small bites per pass with the lowest bit speed possible.

I always hear about how the shaper is considered a high danger machine. Could one of you nice people give me just a bit of feedback on why this is exactly? I am also curious if you shaper people have and/or recommend power feeders when using it. Can a power feeder be used in all situations on the shaper?

I would geatly appreciate the feedback. I


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I think the issue with the shaper is it spins that big bit with MUCH more power than a router. Routers are very dangerous as it is. A supercharged router is just asking to take a finger off. That's why I would NEVER use one without a power feeder.


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## cjwillie (Sep 6, 2011)

I managed to need 66 stitches to put my leg nack together after an injury from a circular saw. Was cutting roof rafters and the guard on the saw stuck open. Cut open my thigh big time. Wasn't paying attention and paid the price. Power tools WILL teach you respect if you happen to forget it for a moment!


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

My vote's jointer.


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## darinS (Jul 20, 2010)

I have to agree with Rob. The most defective part of my shop is definitely me. The power tools haven't got me yet, but a few of the hand tools have. The biggest and best scar so far is from a box knife. Scar is 1 1/2" long and just about 1/2" wide at the widest point.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

*danr*,Stumpy's partly right, the ramped up power is part of the thing with shapers. Another is the method of holding knives in place. There are some nice new shaper heads that have made things safer but the old style could really throw knives like you wouldn't believe. Power feeders are highly recommendable but you can't use them for a lot of operations.
I've owned shapers for years as well without any problems or accidents. I just answered the question asked. I think it has the most potential to get me so I'm really careful.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Most of my minor injuries have been from hand tools. The lathe when I get it set up will be my #1, until then, the table saw. Next is my chainsaw, but it is out of the shop when in use.


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## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

I don't know if it, statistically, is the most dangerous, but the tool that scares me the most is my jointer.

I know several people who have lost fingers in table saws and they all tell me that they were surprised by how little it hurt. Of course, I never want to loose a finger or thumb, but the thought of a portion of my hand going into the jointer blades makes me shudder. Getting caught in a drum sander may be just as bad.


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## pmayer (Jan 3, 2010)

Lancelot attachment for my angle grinder. You can remove a lot of wood in a hurry, but that thing is a bad accident waiting to happen.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

One of the woodworking instructors at our local tech college has four fingers on one hand that are all the same length … jointer accident many years ago.

And yes, he is the guy that does the safety orientations and lectures!

-Gerry


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## oldskoolmodder (Apr 28, 2008)

richgreer… I can confirm, that (while I didn't lose a whole finger) the table saw route is the way to go if you want to lose a digit very fast. (semi) Clean and you don't have much time to hurt, because you go into shock from all the blood and looking inside of your body parts, almost instantly.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Probably me.

I've hurt myself badly twice with chisels. The worst I've ever done with a power saw
is nicked a finger on a running bandsaw blade.


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

The one you are least familiar with.


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

mine happens to be the utility knife….i use it for any and every purpose and I always manage to nik myself in some way


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## stevenhsieh (Jan 8, 2010)

The most dangerous tool is we humans. We are the cause of it.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Wow I didn't expect this kind of response! I think most of you made good points regarding working safely with potentially dangerous tools. I think the best advice was to always be thinking: "What if something goes amiss?" We all need to concentrate on working safe as there often is not a "do over" opportunity in the shop. Remember the immortal words of Ron White: "You cant fix stupid!" Thanks all for participating and I hope this thread raised safety awareness.


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

You are right Steven… Pilot error is the most common cause.

Just this week I watched a good friend of mine stick his finger in a spinning TS blade to knock an offcut out of the way. He walked away with a nice slice down the tip of his finger and the need for a new brake cartridge, blade, and trousers.

Also this week, I saw evidence that about 5 carbide inserts on a helical head Planer had "left the building". I'm sure glad that thing has a shield. That makes me think twice about wanting(or using) a helical head Jointer.


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## jat (Oct 24, 2010)

Certainly the most dangerous thing in the shop is me. None of my tools have ever had an incident that didn't involve me somehow. They seem to all get along fine without me. However, my most troublesome tool has been the jointer. After trying to run end grain through it that was also too short and thin, I learned the power of the jointer's kickback. The piece exploded and blew through a couple of fingers to make an enviable gash on each of them.


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## DamnYankee (May 21, 2011)

The worse injury to happen in my shop was actually from all things…...are you ready for this…..a pipe clamp.

My daughter was helping me during a glue up….no sharp tools, just a cabinet carcas, some glue, and a few pipe clamps. She bent down pick something up (I think it was one of those cheap glue brushes) from the floor, and hit my eye on the end of the pipe as she brought her head back up. Eye black and blue and purple and green and a nasty cut over the eye that left a scar. When it happened I thought she might have permanently damaged her eye.


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

Uh….. using your own accusation, 'Speed' is no more of a machine than 'Me' is. You are too funny.  Maybe an Apple is the most dangerous machine in the shop.


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## JRPortman (Sep 11, 2011)

I hear people listing table saw a lot, does noone use a Sawstop? My company has one and, though i've never stuck my hand in the blade to test it, i have set it off when a metal ruler i was holding touched the blade as it was coasting to a stop. the brake in the machine stopped the blade dead, though a break costs about $100 to replace.

My vote goes with Mitre saw, though would be a radial arm saw if i had one. Those things are scary.


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## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

You mean I'm not a tool ? I thought I was a tool ! But, I've been called a tool !? Man… (heavy sigh and despondent glazed eyes and slumped shoulders from rude correction by others to self-visualization).


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## DamnYankee (May 21, 2011)

David you beat me to the keyboard on that one!


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I think the reason table saw is high on the list is most people have one and it is one of their first large power tools. It was my first.

If I were going to buy a new TS, I would probably bet a Stop Saw, but my little Craftsman will probably be here as long as I am. I don't intend to get into making very many furniture pieces or cabinet work.

Shapers would probably be #1 if very many people had one, but they are not in most homeowner / hobby shops.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

David SAID: "You mean I'm not a tool ? I thought I was a tool ! But, I've been called a tool !? Man… "

FOOL David, FOOL! *Not Tool!* I bet you forgot to use your hearing protection one too many times! *;-)*

No, to be honest I think what we are all saying is that we humans keep being *foolish* while using all of our tools. I know I am guilty as charged… LOL! Be careful out there.


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

IMO, the most dangerous tool (power or hand) is the one that you try to push beyond its (or your) limits. My only injuries have come when I pushed the envelope.


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## KenBee (Mar 9, 2011)

There ain't no such thing as an accident….It is premeditated carelessness.


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## RJA (Jan 12, 2011)

You guys are scaring the crap out of me. I hope I'm not cursing myself but i've never been badly hurt although I came close with a radial arm saw that "ran" at me as I was cutting into a board. I switched to a negative hook blade and that eliminated the danger. If you don't have a negative hook blade on your radial arm saw you should.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Vonhagen - You made some very good points and I appreciate your posting. Thanks. In view of all the horrific accidents cited, we all need to take a careful look at how we work in the shop. Ken Bee - Accidents do occur through no fault of anyone but I agree that carelessness is the cause of many "accidents".


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## Builder_Bob (Jan 9, 2010)

I noticed that the most dangerous tools are those where you bring the work to the tool, like a table saw or router table. In those cases your hands push the work into the tool and are at risk.

If you're bringing the tool to the work, like a drill or skill saw, your hands are likely to stay in place holding the tool or positioning the work.

The offshoot of this is that when you graduate from a home fix-it guy into a more serious woodworker, you have to rethink the whole safety issue before you get into trouble!


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I keep reminding myself that, for me, this is a hobby, and I don't have to meet any deadlines or push to get a project done.

I try to work deliberately … plan each cut, double-check my setups, think through every operation, etc. As Charles Neil reminds us "*If It Doesn't Feel Safe, It's Not*".

Projects that a professional could do very quickly may take me days or weeks, but that's OK … my ability to make my house payment and feed my kids doesn't depend on getting the work done.

-Gerry


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Yankee Push drill (ask Mafe). : ^ O


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## thebigvise (Jun 17, 2010)

I vote for the router.


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## DaddyZ (Jan 28, 2010)

The One you trust the most!!

But as for 'accidents', Come on we all do it! From Sanding your fingertips or fingernails to Death (*most memorable to date was a college girl who got hair stuck in a lathe*), it's all the same just different degrees of pain or injury.

A shop is not a safe place. but Neither is Life in general…...


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## tom427cid (Aug 21, 2011)

Hi all,
pmayer mentioned the Lancelot-I take back everything-IT is the most dangerous tool period.Whether it is in the shop or not. When that style of tool came out I think it was called a power carver. I had to shape a set of roof rails for a 39 Ford woodie,thought it would make the job quicker and simpler.It did.Scared me wicked. For those unfamiliar with the tool it is basicly chain saw teeth instead of saw teeth on a blade.It mounts on a 5" grinder. The new style appears to have a length of chain saw on a disc instead.During testing and learning what the tool would do I experienced a "kick back".For a brief moment I thought I was going to wear the thing! Fortuneately it all turned out ok. However I did add a guard of my own that when the blade is tipped into the "danger zone" the guard lifts the blade from contact with the workpiece. At some point I spoke with the factory and they wanted the tool back,said it was to dangerous.I said no. I did share with them the concept of the guard I built and how it worked.I was pleased to see later that that style of guard was offered.
In defence of the tool it does an incredible job and FAST,but it is the only tool I own that when I use it(rarely) I wear welding gloves,welding leathers,and a welding hood with a clear shield.When you use it it is like being inside a sand blast cabinet running full tilt.
tom


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## oldskoolmodder (Apr 28, 2008)

JRPortman… with all due respect… A SawStop isn't everyone's favorite tool/saw here. For various reasons. Some can't afford an SS for their personal use, either initially nor buying new parts if the brake is set off. There's also the factor that the owner of the company/technology is a complete tool, with his bullying techniques. That kind of thing turns people off very fast.

My accident happened because I got distracted by someone coming up behind me, and I was actually cutting a plastic cutting board. So, does that make it my fault really? Common sense tells me, I don't walk up on someone who is using a power tool. Not everyone has common sense though, it appears. (i.e.- people walking up behind people using power tools)


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## Zuki (Mar 28, 2007)

Although it may not cause as much damage as a TS or BS . . . . my 23g Ridgid brad nailer makes me nervous. The tip does not have to be pressed against the workpiece to fire nails. There is a double trigger, but when you have one depressed a twitch could send a needle flying.

Last year I accidentally fired a pin and felt a pinch in the top of my left thumb. The brad had pierced the fleshy part of thumb, in front of the nail . . . there was a little bit of the brad sticking out on either side of my thumb.


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## endlessDESIGN (Jan 15, 2010)

razor blade knife using a straight edge and it slipping off


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

This thread has produced a lot of good thoughts. It even got me to do something. I put the riving knife on my Grizz for the first time today. I may not leave it but I used it all afternoon and got along with it which surprised me. Wasn't sure it was thin enough for my Diablo blade but it worked fine. I become more safety conscious every time I read about one of your injuries. So some good does come from others misfortunes. Keep posting and maybe we can keep someone from getting hurt or worse. Thanks for all the input.


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## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

I had just finished reading all above replies, one question I will raise in a forum… How do your prevent such dangerous tools? KNOW-HOW the tools works with you is probably the general answer but what if a simple circular saw will throw a try square 12 ft away will ever hit a man in the neck. I was lucky no one was hit. I was cutting a 3/4 ply with 2 inches above ground but that try square was left under the ply unnoticed (it was already my 3rd rip.) Well, I should have check and doublecheck when I made the rip… I should have used a sawhorse, ... I should have used a panel cutter… I should have used a handsaw… Anything is possible but have I done a risk assessment on my job…. NO. That's why the rootcause is always the same-WE HAVE NOT ASSESSED THE RISK AND CONTROL IT.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Bert,
I agree with Von. The grizzly riving knife is just 0.098" and you really should check it against your Diablo blades. I recall having to return my Diablos to HD (bought with the intention of using on my "then-to-be-delivered" G0690 TS) because of this very issue. Better safe than sorry. BTW, I have also found the Yellow Board Buddies to be very useful as well.


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## dakremer (Dec 8, 2009)

I disagree with HorizontalMike


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## johnso (Mar 23, 2011)

My worst experience by far has been the danged disc sander…it was the obvious "I'm sure I can hold this little piece of wood just to trim it up a bit". I can tell you from personal experience it takes 4 weeks for a finger tip that's been demolished by the disc sander to heal to the point where feeling comes back to it.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

H Mike - I have used the Grizz riving knife for 2 days now with my 24 tooth Diablo and it seems to work fine


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Well gfadvm, with the blade kerf on the 24T being just 0.098" that is about 0.004" smaller than recommended for this riving knife but JUST AT the 0.098" thickness of the riving knife. IMO, you are lucky to be getting away with such close measurements. Not sure I would want to cut it that close, though I do understand the price break on these thin kerf blades. Be careful and good luck.


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## joeybealis (Jul 16, 2011)

I have been lucky to have never nicked myself with a power tool. I respect a shaper and pay attention when i use one. The worst injury i have ever seen was from a table saw though. Ripping face frame material for cabinets and a piece splintered off and went 6" or so in the guys belly. It didn't hit anything important and he came back to work the next day. Thank God for being a little over weight.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Joey,
That is the kind of thing to get me thinking about a leather shop apron. I know it wouldn't stop everything, but slowing kickbacks down is better than nothing…

Obviously, not being in the path is better *;-)*


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## dakremer (Dec 8, 2009)

you should just do some more crunches. Strength that core


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## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

Just hook him up to a tinge unit for an hour, sell him an ice pack and a water-filled pillow, the when you bill him it will take his mind off the lingering pain… ;=)


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I am by far the most dangerous tool in my shop.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

vonhagen/H mike You guys are scaring me now! I've only had the riving knife on my saw for a rew days but I have used it a lot since I put it on. It doesn't require any more force to feed wood througfh the saw since I put the splitter on. My only explanation is that the Diablo blade cuts a kerf that is wider than the blade width. Does this make sense?


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

I admit that I did not read all of this thread. But my thoughts are that the most dangerous tool in your shop is the tool you are using when you have an accident and end up hurt. A lot of tools we use could cost us our life….. but many of the smaller ones can injure or… kill us also …. if not used correctly.
Be Safe.

- JJ


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Thanks vonhagen, I feel better now! I may try the better blades some day but I cut all kinds of HARD woods [Jatoba. Ipe, Hedgeapple] and the Diablo 24 tooth has always done a good job. One of these blades usually lasts over a year [I write the date on them to keep track]. I posted this thread to raise awareness of safety issues so I didn't want to be setting a bad example.


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## Chipy (Apr 20, 2011)

By far the most dangerous machine I have ever worked on has to be this Waner Swasey Turret Lathe! It was 15 feet long and had a chuck that was about 36 inches in diameter.It had a 35hp motor and I would bore a 4inch hole 12inches deep in about 10 minutes.If I guided the curling chip, witch came off blue hot just right it would slink all the way across the shop and right into my bosses office.Oh yeah my boss told me more than a few times that it killed a guy in WWII. Apparently his shirt got caught on a chuck jaw and it dragged him right under the chuck and right out the other side.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

gfadvm,
It sounds like Von's idea regarding possible runout causing wider cuts is quite possible. In my own case I decided that I wasn't going to chance it and went with full kerf 1/8" blades on my G0690. Besides the extra safety factor I quickly discovered that it is MUCH easier factoring in or accounting for 1/8" when doing the math for cuts.

Good luck and be safe.


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## dakremer (Dec 8, 2009)

a PhD should have no trouble with math should they? well, maybe I guess in this case.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Sounds like little under powered saws may be the way to go ;-))


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Hey Von,
dakremer is actually Doug and he was trying to ping at me. He has been following me around from thread to thread pinging at me like a lost puppy begging for attention. He can stand the math on THAT statistic.

Geez I could go on and on, but Von you are right, "...youngsters are always throwing a wrench in the cog."


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## DocStram (Jun 23, 2008)

This may sound crazy, but the most dangerous tool in my shop is ME. I've only had a couple of accidents over the years. But, when I've had one . . and looked back at what caused it . . . . it comes down to me being at fault.


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## dakremer (Dec 8, 2009)

It's one thing when a "youngster throws a wrench in the cog." At least I have an excuse….I'm a youngster. However there is no excuse when a 59 year old "throws a wrench in the cog," like you've been doing for a while now through unprovoked threatening PM's to me.

PS - trust me when I say…that I will NEVER…..EVER be jealous of your PhD in Education. I heard they are just giving those out these days?

I'm also very glad (judging by your clever play on words) that you are not using chiropractic to stay healthy.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

dakremer SAID: "...your PhD in Education. I heard they are just giving those out these days?"

That must be something that they are doing in your little Palmer Community College town.

All I can say is THAT is not what happens at Texas A&M University. I mean, what more can I say… *A&M is in the TOP TEN in:*

*Student enrollment*-Texas A&M was the seventh largest American university with an enrollment of 50,054 students pursuing degrees in 10 academic colleges.

A&M consistently ranks among the top ten public universities each year in enrollment of *National Merit scholars*.

Texas A&M's College Station campus, *one of the largest in America, spans 5,200 acres* plus 350 acres for Research Park.

Currently ranked 8th in the nation in Football.

etc, etc, etc,...

Anyway Dougie, wise up and grow up… as it is everyones' best interest that you actually DO grow up ASAP.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

dakremer SAID: "Look at how bad that makes you sound. A 59 year old having a pissing contest with *a 26 year old?*"

AT LEAST I know how old I am. DOAH! Your profiles all say you are 28. You are getting so frustrated that you have mistaken wetting your own pants for a pissing contest! LOL!


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Bently,
Can't trust dakremer and PMs, so post all in the light. I will leave it that. I'm out of here.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Well said Bently.

Either that or someone unsheathe the deadly "I'm rubber, you're glue, bounces off me and sticks to you!" and be done with it.


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## dakremer (Dec 8, 2009)

just because it says 28 on my profile doesnt make it true, and just because i said 26 on here doesnt make that true either. You are fun. I love immature "grown-ups" - makes me feel better about myself

PS - are you really laughing out loud at your own jokes now? cool


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Thanks Bently. Your comments are always timely and appreciated.


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## tom427cid (Aug 21, 2011)

Speaking of degrees-we all know what BS is-----well MS is More of Same------and PhD is
Piled higher and Deeper.VBG lol
Sorry I could not resist.
tom-former IA instructor.


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## roundguy (Jan 19, 2011)

Skil Saw.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

ok this is my real answer its the one your using the rest are fine by themselves but turn one on and lookout I have been a trauma nurse for 20 years and its always the one they are using that hurts them a few years back one of the trauma drs who is an avid woodworker sat down with my wife and wrote this for our website it is so valuable i have to share it here now as well hope this doesn't piss any one off at lumberjocks

Published on Wednesday, 27 July 2011 17:26 | Written by Sandra Bamber-Granum with Dr. Geoffrey Stroh | Print | Email | Hits: 81

A look at what to do in case of a shop-related accident

Despite all of the safety gear and equipment that comes with our shop tools and our own good intentions, shop accidents do occur. The Center for Disease Control and the National Center For Injury Prevention and Control both list unintentional injuries as the highest cause of death in both the 15-24 year age group and the second leading cause of death in the 35-44 year age group. Not all of these accidents are shop-related, of course, but serious injury is an important aspect of woodworking and is worth mentioning. It is common to find articles about shop safety and how to prevent accidents, but information on what to do when an injury does occur is a little less prevalent. With the aid of Dr. Geoffrey Stroh, (a board-certified emergency physician at University Medical Center and Attending in the UCSF-Fresno Emergency Medicine Residency Program), This Old Workshop takes a look at some common workshop injuries and what we can do to help ourselves and others when they occur.

Cuts/Amputations

How: Cuts are probably the most common injury received in the shop and usually require only cleansing and bandaging, or in some cases, stitches. Sharp blades and the improper use of safety guards can lead to these accidents. In the most extreme events, amputations may occur.

Treatment: Dr. Stroh's recommendation for an accidental amputation has two parts. The first is the care of the amputated part.

Gently brush or rinse off any obvious debris. Do not scrub.
Wrap the part in dry, sterile gauze, or cloth if gauze isn't available
Place the part in an airtight bag (i.e. Ziploc) and then place bag in an
ice bath.

The goal is to keep the amputated part clean, dry and cool to maximize
chances of replantation.

The second step in emergency care for amputations is the bleeding site.

If possible, rinse the site under the faucet.
Wrap with sterile gauze, or clean cloth.
Apply direct pressure to control the bleeding.

*Note- Unless blood loss is life-threatening, tourniquets are generally not indicated and may actually decrease the chances of successful replantation.

Avoidance: The proper use of all safety guards is important. Also, avoid long sleeves
or any other clothing that may dangle down near the saw blade.

Fire/Burns

How: The use of flammable materials like paint thinner and finish chemicals can lead to
fires in the shop. Also, faulty wiring or overloaded electrical cords can also be a
fire hazard.

Treatment: If a burn has occurred, it is important to first get away from the source and into fresh air. There are three other main considerations for burn injury:

Inhalation injury (lungs and airway)- Note any trouble breathing,
swallowing or changes in voice. If any of these are present, call 911
immediately. Make sure the victim is comfortable with as much air as
possible.
Related trauma- This is frequent with burn injuries. Use caution when
moving the victim if they have had a fall, as there might be fractures or
internal injuries as well.
The burn itself- Burns should be covered with a cool, moist, clean cloth if it is a small area (i.e. face, arm). Large burns that involve multiple extremities or the torso are best treated with a dry, clean cover, as hypothermia is a significant risk if the victim is wet. Chemical burns should be washed with large amounts of water to flush away as much of the chemical as possible, followed by the treatment as stated above. Exceptions to this are metallic sodium and lithium, which will react with water.


Note: Do not put anything else on the burn (i.e. cream, ointment). If your community has a burn center, victims with large burns or burns involving hands, feet, face or genitals, as well as children with burns, should be transported to that facility.

Avoidance: Do not use flammable materials near flame and make sure they are stored in the proper containers. Check wires and cords and promptly repair any that are frayed or otherwise damaged. Do not overload outlets. Also, make sure the shop is equipped with a working fire extinguisher and phone.

Inhalation/Ingestion of Foreign Materials

How: Fumes from finishing materials can be inhaled if the work area is not properly
ventilated. Toxic liquids and foreign materials can be inadvertently ingested.

Treatment:

Inhalation will generally produce headache and/or trouble breathing as the first symptom. Should either of these occur, leave the area and get into fresh area immediately.
Accidental ingestion of most liquids used in workshops will be of small
quantity. Contact your local poison control center for recommendations on
how to treat the specific chemical involved. Do not induce vomiting of any
hydrocarbon (i.e. thinner, gasoline).These products can be inadvertently inhaled
during vomiting and can cause more problems than if allowed to pass through the intestinal tract.

Avoidance: The proper use of a safety mask over the nose and mouth when working
with chemicals, like paint thinner, can reduce the risk of inhalation. Proper storage in a clearly marked container can help avoid ingestion.

Eye/Ear Injuries

How: Eye injuries can occur when safety glasses are not used. Specks of wood and other materials can get into the eye. Also, chemicals can splash into unprotected eyes. Cuts and blunt injury can occur if there is splintering of wood.

Ear injuries usually happen due to loud machines causing hearing loss. They can
also be hit with projectiles. Also, dust particles can spread staphylococcal
organisms that can lead to hearing loss.

Treatment:

Foreign material in the eye is one of the most common shop injuries. Usually
these result in an abrasion of the cornea and need evaluation in an emergency
department, first for removal of any remaining material, and second, for pain
control and the prescription of antibiotics.
Should an impaled object occur in one eye, it should be covered without
bumping the object (i.e. nail). Usually a paper cup taped in place will work.
The other eye should also be covered, if possible, as the eyes move in
tandem and looking around may increase the injury.
Cuts and foreign material in the ear generally require emergency department
evaluation. Many an eardrum has been perforated trying to remove things at
home. The cartilage of the ear is also very close to the surface and
specialized treatment is often warranted. Hearing loss may or may not be
permanent, but preventative hearing protection is the key to minimizing
further damage.
Avoidance: The best way to avoid these types of injuries is to wear the appropriate eye and ear safety equipment.

Falls

How: The leading cause of injury in the 65+ age group, falls happen in a number
of ways, mostly involving overextending oneself on a ladder. The usual injuries
that occur with this type of accident is head/neck trauma and limb injuries.

Treatment:

Head and neck- Anyone who has lost consciousness and is behaving abnormally or complaining of numbness, weakness, tingling, or neck pain should be kept lying still and prevented from moving their neck. Call 911 for any of these complaints.
Extremities- If there is an obvious deformity or suspected fracture, the
extremity should be immobilized (held in position with whatever is available). Folded cardboard and tape will work. If you can access 911, let EMS do this, as they are trained in splinting techniques. Simply minimize movement until they arrive.
Internal injuries- Falls can often result in internal injuries that may present in a subtle fashion. Vague abdominal pain or feeling light-headed may be indications of an internal injury. The safest option is to call 911 and get the victim to the emergency room.

Avoidance: Read the instructions on the proper use of ladders and step stools. Make
sure the ladder is on a solid surface before ascending. Do not reach out beyond a safe distance while on a ladder. Also, make sure all electrical cords and other equipment are stored safely to avoid tripping.

Electric Shock

How: Allowing electrical equipment near water or cutting cords with power saws can
lead to electric shock.

Treatment: Electrical shock results in two main types of injury.

Burn to the tissue- The burns that result from the entrance and exit of the electricity may be much more severe than they appear externally. Current is carried along blood vessels, nerves, and muscle tissue and all can be damaged. All but the most minor injuries should be evaluated by a physician. Household current is generally safe for adults, but can be dangerous for those with heart conditions and children.
AC and DC current can result in stoppage or abnormal rhythms of the heart. Should you witness such an event, make sure it is safe to touch the victim (i.e. power off), then provide rescue breathing and call 911. Operators will instruct you, if needed, in proper rescue breathing technique and get help on the way.

Avoidance: Do not use power equipment near water sources. Be extremely careful when using all power tools.

Many accidents can be avoided with the use of proper safety equipment and caution. When an accident does occur, always have a phone handy in the shop in case a 911 emergency call needs to be made. Local hospitals and ambulance services have inexpensive classes on first aid and CPR. These classes can help you save yourself and others in case of a serious emergency. Be safe while working in the shop!

Sandra Bamber-Granum with Dr. Geoffrey Stroh

In no event shall Dr. Stroh and This Old Workshop.com, its licensors, its suppliers, or any third parties mentioned on the Dr. Stroh and This Old Workshop.COM site be liable for any damages (including, without limitation, incidental and consequential damages, personal injury/wrongful death, lost profits, or damages resulting from lost data or business interruption) resulting from the use or inability to use the Dr. Stroh and This Old Workshop.com Site or the Content, whether based on warranty, contract, tort, or any other legal theory, and whether or not Dr. Stroh and This Old Workshop.com is advised of the possibility of such damages. Dr. Stroh and This Old Workshop.com shall be liable only to the extent of actual damages incurred by you, not to exceed U.S.$1.00. Dr. Stroh and This Old Workshop.com is not liable for any personal injury, including death, caused by your use or misuse of the Site, Content, or Public Area (as defined below). Any claims arising in connection with your use of the Site, any Content, or the Public Areas must be brought within one (1) year of the date of the event giving rise to such action occurred. Remedies under these Terms and Conditions are exclusive and are limited to those expressly provided for in these Terms and Conditions.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

play nice everyone … 
"Keep it civil and respectful and appropriate for all ages."


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

thedude50,
Great advice. I suggest contacting MsDebbieP and asking her to post this in the general Safety Tips area. We ALL could use this reminder from time to time.

http://lumberjocks.com/MsDebbieP/blog/20757


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

The latest info in my last first aid class abut electrical shock is for anyone over 50 to be monitored for 24 hours as issues can start anytime during that period.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Hey Topa,
A couple of years ago(still in my late 50s) I got a pry bar a bit too close to an outlet while up on an aluminum extension ladder. ALMOST knocked me off the ladder. After I got down I made sure Dr. J. Daniels monitored my progress. Almost got a second opinion from Dr. J. Beam as well. *;-)*

But seriously, good advice on monitoring the ticker. Personally, I hate 120v because it just grabs you and you can't let go. Not that I like 220v or 440v. Way back in my early 20s(Navy) I got knocked across the room once by each but was lucky both times. Funny how those two events remain crystal clear in my memory nearly 40 years later.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I remember a few of those very clearly too ;-))

The grabbing and knocking is the reaction of your muscles to the electrical stimulus. We operate on electrical signals just like robots ;-)) If you are in a position to grip the device when you get shocked, your muscles hold you on and since we operate on millivolts, any exterior source is over powering. If you happen to be in a position your contracting muscles pull or throw yoiu away, that is what happens.


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## tom427cid (Aug 21, 2011)

And to think when I was a kid I used to stick my finger in light sockets--at least until I found one that was HOT!!!!
It is a horrible feeling when you can't let go of 120v. As was just said, 40 years ago and crystal clear.
On a lighter note,buried in a wall of a house that I was working on,it was noted that at date and time I said
"electricity don't freeze!" 
tom


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## Majosu (Apr 28, 2011)

I am the msot dangerous tool in my shop. I've never been seriously hurt, but all my nicks were caused by my own lack of attention.


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

I've been nicked and bruised by many things in the shop but I have only been cut seriously by my tablesaw.

My own stupidity in both cases so maybe I'm the most dangerous '*tool*' in the workshop!


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

if you have ever been shocked and gone to the er you will sit at least 24vhours before going home on a monitor


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## dennis (Aug 3, 2006)

Nothing gets my respect the way a shaper does. Raised arched door panels. There is a safe way to do them. I just have to relearn it every time.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Router Table and table saw I'd agree with, here's a little tip on safety when it comes to the table saw, I only raise the blade just barely past the thickness of the wood I am cutting, in the event I do slip the damage hopefully won't be as bad as losing a limb.

Randy


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## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

In my shop the most dangerous tool is the unused broom in the corner (metaphorically speaking). I like browsing through all your shop pictures and most of you guys keep pretty tidy shops. Me, in the heat of the battle, I don't take the time to keep things picked up. Pretty soon I've got trim ends scattered on the floor, work bench cluttered with tools, equipment not pushed back out of the way. I have to remind myself to slow down and take the time to tidy up.


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## rogerw (Jan 14, 2011)

the one you are afraid of.


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## glassyeyes (Apr 14, 2009)

Already said many times-me. One moment's inattention or impatience, and out come the bandaids.


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## Jim Jakosh (Nov 24, 2009)

I agree with Wayne on the table saw. It is a tool that demands full attention and respect for what it can do if handled carelessly. I watch a lot of guys run one holding a piece an inch away from that blade and it scares me to watch. I have seen so many guys get bad cuts and they don't know how it happened because it went so fast. You need a margin of safety with all tools but especially that one. I heard the 4 inch rule for saws- don't let your fingers get within 4 inches of the blade- and I abide by it!!!! That is why I use two pusher sticks for almost every cut on the table saw. I have a dozen pusher stick and they are all full of strange cuts- but not my fingers.

You are always pushing towards the blade on a table say and if the parts kicks back, turns, flips up, etc, there is a chance your hand will follow through and mix with the blade. It is not worth the chance to me.


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## SSMDad (Apr 17, 2011)

Chisels and table-mounted router here. I put one small mortise chisel half way through my thumb and just a week ago I stated dusting off the router table and forgot it was still running! Fortunately (and I still don't know how) I pulled my middle finger back quick enough that the bit didn't draw blood but just left some nasty crumpled skin. haha I agree….most dangerous tool is probably me.


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

ol' commercial but still hilarious…


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## dusty2 (Jan 4, 2009)

With out a doubt the one I respect the most is the shaper. However, the only accidents I have had with the shaper was self induced. I attempted to feed the shaper from the wrong side and without feather boards or hold downs.

Thankfully, that has been many, many years ago but I still have that great respect for its capabilities - both good and bad.


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## MBeck (Jan 13, 2011)

Probably the lathe with a big chunk of wood on it. The lathe is probably the only tool where the wood is moving in front of you, instead of the tool moving through the wood.


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## j4r0d (Oct 7, 2011)

Anything if not in a good mood to work.


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## cloakie1 (May 29, 2011)

i reckon complacentcie (excuse the spelling…i only went to school to eat my lunch) is the worst thing.when you just get to familiar with your tools and you lose your respect
otherwise i go with draw saws first. nothing makes me madder when i see somebody cross their arms in front of a draw saw….best way to lose it before you even know what has happened if it grabs.
the spindlemoulder would be next.i have seen a guy have a blade come out and it entered him just above his inside elbow and it finished up embedded under his armpit….the blood stains are a permanent reminder on the shop floor.he was lucky to live. as a result be only use serrated backed and matched knives or solid profile heads now, but sometimes i have no choice but to use a smoothbacked hss knives and i always power feed with those. we have a set that do really scare me however. the head holds 4 knives…all serratered but each knife is 10mm thick 60mm high and approx 80mm deep. i run it at 6000 rpm and with a belt powerfeed. it is used for cutting a half round to form a dome on a 95mm x 95mm block so involves crossgrain cutting.it is powerfed vertically with a pressure plate on top to hold it square. it has to be set very carefully because failure to do so results in some spectactular noisesand some very funny looking blocks.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Thank you for removing the spam that was previously above!


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## Alongiron (Jan 10, 2011)

I have never been injured yet..knock on wood but I would offer this advice… Always work with sharp tools and blades. If you do not have a workbench with Bench Dogs, get one that does or install them on your existing table. If you have a bandsaw with a good sharp blade, like those from Highland WW, use it to rip down your lumber instead of your table saw. No chance of kickback and thinner blade curf. Install a power feed on your table saw. Always use a large push stick when using your tablesaw, bandsaw, and router table.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Most dangerous tool is the one you have become complacent about since you have "done it a million times before" and zing! off the the ER you go.

I still have all my digits only nicks and cuts from chisels - never bit by a power tool ever.
1 kickback in 2004 but was "out of the way" but like getting into the electricity the experience stays with you.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

WAHHHHHHH! I don't wanna see that stuff.
I tripped over an air hose. Ended up having to get a knee replaced. Dumb a$$ed move on my part.
Oh well….......
Bill


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## teach1 (Oct 23, 2011)

All these replies scare me. I teach high school woodworking and the kids have no idea what these machines can do. After 30 plus years of teaching, only two incidents, niether one too serious.


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## Pop (Aug 6, 2007)

1. Me doing dumb s..t.
2. Me running my mouth while working.
3 A tool? I'll go with the band saw. It looks and sounds so sweet and harmless. Folks this is the fastest cutting saw in the shop. It doesn't care what or how thick the thing is that you shove in it. It WILL cut it. When my kids were using my shop I liked to point out the band saw behind the glass in the meat market. The dang thing can cut digits off before you even miss them. I guess a small bonus is that it cuts clean (unlike a circular blade) so it's easier for the surgeon to sew them back on.

Pop


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

my new candidate for this is the tormek it makes everything so sharp that during my tests i have cut my self at least 10 times in 3 months on several tools all sharpened on the tormek or the work-sharp or the jet or the grizzly but the best edge is on the tormek and so the most cuts this last one right to the bone


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