# What is your experience with your local Woodcraft store?



## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

My local Woodcraft is in Sandy Utah. 
I go there as little as possible and only when I cannot find something anywhere else and that I believe that I can find it there.
My last experience was a few weeks ago looking for a new blade for a #3 Craftsman plane that I rebuilt to give to a friend.
As usual my experience was unpleasant, aggravating and unsuccessful.
A waste of time
I go to this store only may be once or twice a year and that is still too much.
I ended up buying a blade for a very good price on E-bay .

I know that other LJs have issues with this store and specially the owner of this store.
My hope is that someone from Woodcraft headquarter will read this post and act upon it, as this store could be great a store with a different owner/manager.


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## casual1carpenter (Aug 16, 2011)

Bert, I shop at my local woodcraft store often and i must say that i am happy that they are there. Yes, you can find better prices on the internet. Yes, the store does not offer every item that an internet search will produce. However, I am one of those people who are into immediate gratification in the sense that when I pay my money i like to have the product in hand. On the rare occasion that an item is out of stock that is usually corrected by special order and i receive a call to pick it up in three or four days.

I do have a simple personality clash with one guy, I think he is the manager LOL, but seeing as how there is usually three guys working i simply avoid him when I can. I will say that all of the staff is knowledgeable and helpful and will often bring another staff member into a discussion if the topic better fits their expertise. My only issue with going there is that after picking up the item i originally went to purchase and confirmed it's availability over the phone other things seem to magnetically attach themselves to my hands and wind up in the truck going home with me.


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## PaulDoug (Sep 26, 2013)

I like to visit one of their stores when I go see my daughter. I just like to look around, very seldom buy anything. The one I visit most is in Beaverton, Ore. It always amazes me, seems like there is one "associate" that is always busy helping customers and being friendly. There are usually about three others that are standing around in the area of the registers that do nothing. They don't even seem happy to take peoples money. Like I said, I'm not there often but it has been that way every time I have been there. I think most the employees are retired guys working part time.


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## jdmaher (May 4, 2011)

Mine is great!

Internet prices MAY be cheaper, and they have a very limited selection of wood, but otherwise - its a fun place for me.

If I absolutely have to have something, last minute, I go to the Woodcraft website and check local inventory. Then, I call the store and have them set it aside for me (just in case). When I get to the store, I always walk the aisles and usually find something else I like at a price I can manage.

I always talk to the guys, and that's prevented me from wasting money (they often have better ideas). And I've attended several demos and classes and taken each visit as an opportunity to talk with other hobbyists.

It may not be as big as a Canadian Lee Valley, but its better than any big box store I've ever been in. And its local.

I recommend Woodcrafters.


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## Tigarman (Dec 20, 2011)

My local WoodCraft is in Columbus OH. I have mixed experiences with them. There have been times when they were extremely helpful, and other times that I couldn't get help because they were busy talking to each other. I went in to buy a table saw about 6 months ago and I couldn't get anyone to assist me. I got irritated, went home, check Craigslist again (I had been checking it regularly), and found a used saw exactly like the one I was going to buy. I saved $400, and only had to clean off the surface. On the other hand, one guy once took the time to teach me about wood dye. Almost too much information. He even pulled some off the shelf and we did some tests. All in all, I will always go back, but I never know what to expect.


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## Ken90712 (Sep 2, 2009)

Mine is alot better then Rockler but frustrating at times….. However, We are very lucky to have Austins Hardwoods here in Southern California… It is Amazing, All kinds of wood, and tools and supplies… They have hundreds of different stains and finishes and its the size of a Home Depot. The staff is amazing as well. I took my Dad there while he was visiting and he was amazed and so jealous… He still talks about that place. Good Luck.


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## woodcox (Nov 21, 2012)

I have found that their inventory is lacking. They have been shifting everything around in the store to make room for a lot more machines. I am going to wait a bit to let them get better organized before I go back. I have never been disappointed with their customer service. I do think their hand tool inventory and layout could be better. There was only one replacement iron for a #6 in the store. They seem to be overstocked on turning and carving supplies. Franchise markup is hard to see sometimes.


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## johnstoneb (Jun 14, 2012)

I use my local Woodcraft quite a bit. They are friendly and knowledgeable. The store is easy to find things in and has same inventory as the catalog. This store used to be a company store but is now a locally owned and managed franchise.


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## whitebeast88 (May 27, 2012)

i've only been to a wc store once when i was on vacation(cause i don't have one close).the people where very unfriendly and would walk right by.i don't think they even spoke when i went to check out.


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## JJohnston (May 22, 2009)

I don't bother going to the one in Albuquerque any more. It always looks like they're about to go out of business - and for all I know, they might have, I haven't been there in so long. Lots of empty space on the shelves, what inventory there is, is spread thin to disguise the empty space, etc.

I ordered a table saw from them a few years back. The guy who wrote up the order wrote it up for the wrong saw - totally different model. This wasn't discovered until the saw arrived at the store. The guy was decked out in Sandia National Labs gear - watch, ring, shirt logo. Apparently, I was wrong in assuming you had to be smart, or at least literate, to work there.

I once called them looking for some quarter sawn white oak. The guy on the phone said yep, they had some; he was looking right at it. When I got there, I saw right away that it was all flat sawn.

We do have one of the three Woodworker's Supply stores in Albuquerque, and I do go there occasionally, but I mostly do business online.


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

The store closest to me (Overland Park, Kansas) is a typical retail store. A nice employee or two, and then a few guys hiding out or at register doing nothing. Typical stuff, they have a nice selection, and allow one to leave with the items in hand and see stuff in person. Thankful to have one close. Certainly haven't done anything that would cause me not to shop there.


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## Biff (Nov 19, 2012)

My local store is a crap shoot as far as the staff. There are a couple really nice, knowledgeable guys and four or five worthless ones.

The biggest problem is the absolutely outrageous prices on everything from wood to hardware. I have stopped going in there unless it's an absolute dire necessity. I mean stuff in this store is easily 20-30% higher than Amazon. Just can't justify it!


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Mine is great. I have found the customer service tone is set by the manager and franchise owner.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

Mine is also great. As a preface, my wife and I are in several times a week. If any of you remember the TV show "Cheers", we get a similar reception to when Norm walks in the bar. We are on a first name basis with everyone. They also special order a lot of stuff with us in mind, and tend to take care of us well a check out time.

We often have our 2 year old daughter with us and they treat her really well - giving her little vendor giveaways like promotional stress balls and the like.

She loves going to "the wood store"


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## JollyGreen67 (Nov 1, 2010)

JJjohnston: The Woodcraft store in Albuquerque is out of business - poor management. I ordered a Rikon lathe from them, waited 6 weeks, gave up and ordered it online - got it in 4 days.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I wish my local WoodCraft store was closer. The closest one is in Appleton, Wisconsin … 43 miles from my house.

The franchise owner is a terrific guy (he is very generous in his support of our local woodworker's guild), and the people that work there are all very knowledgeable and helpful.

They do sometimes have a limited stock (e.g. General Finishes products), but I have found if I call ahead a day or two and tell them what I want my order is ready when I walk into the store.


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## cutworm (Oct 2, 2010)

The staff is good at mine here in the upstate of SC. But pretty much everytime I go they don't have at least part of what I need. They kindly offer to order but I can order and it's brought to my front door. Wish they had a better inventory. 
Like the quote Jimbo.


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## retfr8flyr (Oct 30, 2013)

My closest Woodcraft store is almost an hours drive and is a franchise store. I like to support local businesses but I have tried to buy several big ticket machines from them and they are just not interested in being competitive price wise or service wise.

I recently bought my Jet Xacta saw online because I got better service and price then I was offered from the Woodcraft store. The W store wouldn't offer any discount and would give free shipping to the store only. I would have to find a way to get the saw home and into my garage by myself. My online order was 15% off the normal online price and free lift gate truck service into my garage. No brainer!! I have purchased over $10,000 worth of equipment this year and it has all been purchased online.

Earl


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Earl-Though, like you, I like to patronize local businesses, I tend to buy more and more online. I can shop without being hassled, and don't have to deal with any know-it-all dweebs who really don't know anything.

We have a local independent woodworking supply store, but I swore off them because the 'help' was no help at all. Every time I have gone in there, I come out about half pi$$ed off. At least at the nearest WoodCraft, the staff knows the difference between a dust collector and air filtration system!


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

I think that this is the real problem: I want o buy local to support and to encourage local businesses to help my city collect business taxes so that my taxes do not go sky high, but they either do not have the inventory, they are to expense, they do not want to deal or their work is not really good.
Unfortunately I buy almost everything on Amazon with free second day shipping,it is easier , cheaper, faster and more convenient.
I tried to work with my local Woodcraft to buy a 18" Rikon saw, they refused any kind of deal.I could buy only full price so I bought a Grizzly on Amazon.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I buy quite a bit on Amazon too, but that is about to come to an end. Amazon is building a new distribution center in my state, and thus, they will have 'nexis' which means they must collect sales tax (5.5%) on all sales in Wisconsin.


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## C_PLUS_Woodworker (Jun 10, 2010)

*Right upfront I want to CLEARLY state that the only reason I am responding to Bert's original Forum Topic is to partner with Bert in his quest …" My hope is that someone from Woodcraft headquarters will read this post and act upon it, as this store could be great a store with a different owner/manager.*

Bert and I discussed (via email) this very issue a few weeks back….......since we both use the same Woodcraft store in Sandy, Utah.

Bert asked if I had an opinion as to the Sandy Woodcraft store.

I emailed back to Bert the following:
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"As to Sandy Woodcraft….I would rather wait a week and order on-line than go into that store.

Yesterday, as we were coming home from the VA Hospital we were going right past Woodcraft. I needed some "specialty" hardware for a Cherry table I am making. I do not need the parts yet, but we do not go North much and I thought it a good idea to buy them in person to ensure I got exactly what I needed…and to maybe learn a little ……since I had never used these before.

Same old….......same old.

Owner crabby as hell and seemed to begrudge any questions or requests for assistance.

He was doing his bookkeeping at the front desk and, after I stood there for a while I finally said I needed some help with something.

He would not even look up from his books and/or give me the courtesy of his attention ….. even for a minute.

Kept his head buried in his books and clearly did not appreciate being interrupted by a CUSTOMER.

The only thing he said was that "the other guy would help me".

The (only) other guy tried to be helpful, but with the owner "preoccupied" he had to not only take care of me…......but every other customer in the store…...and could not keep up and/or give ANY customer the time they warranted….......as paying customers.

Long ago, I once asked this owner about a lower price on a drill press and he went OFF:

"Do you guys want me here or not? Then I have to make a little profit…...so leave my damn prices alone".

Well, I will give him that.

I understand that.

I practice supporting small businesses.

And, I did then, and I do now, acknowledge that he was probably very correct about needing the profit.

But that is NOT how you treat a customer with a $1000 bucks in his pocket ready to spend in there.

I would be a little more forgiving while writing to you………. but this was not an isolated event.

Every time…almost 100% ……..when I need/want assistance in this place…same sorry story.

-----------End of email to Bert---------------

Now, the only way I will go in there is if I know exactly what I want and if I know exactly where it, find it and take it up to the register to pay and I am outta there.

Two more observations about this store:

1. There is either one guy working there…………or there are 4-6 guys. Some are better than others…they are a mixed bag of guys ranging from the "knowledgeable/helpful" guys to the "know-it-alls" (who make you feel stupid) or guys that know so little about ANYTHING that they really should not be working in a specialty store.

2. There appears no rhyme or reason as to the fluctuations in staffing. (And staffing needs and scheduling is something I know more than a little about).

Bert, I have gone in there once since we "talked" to check on an item that I wanted buy……..but wanted to buy only after having it in my own hands….. rather than buying the item sight-unseen on-line. I was not familiar with this item, either. New to me.

It appears that they are significantly increasing their stock of wood, which is a good thing, but, by sheer coincidence…… I had just barely…........an hour earlier…........bought 30 bd ft of Cherry at my usual hardwood dealer…..so I did some comparisons. The Woodcraft wood was *very *high quality…every piece I looked at was very nice…………but was MUCH higher priced.

Also, they are stocking quite a bit more than they did several years ago………of anything and everything.

Now, I am a big believer in buying local…......even if it is at a premium. We have one gas station in our little town and their price on gas is usually 3-5 cents higher than it is in larger towns. But, I always try to buy my gas there.

We bought a full set of new high-end kitchen appliances for our new home a couple years back, and THE BOSS shopped all over, got the make and model number for everything she wanted and we gave the list to our little local furniture store and bought from him.

Plus, I like being on a first-name basis with the people that sell me stuff. Rewarding on the front end…… and much less fuss on the back-end if there is any problem.

So, I realize the issues small business owners face and try to support them.

I WANT to do business with Woodcraft.

I want to give them my money.

I want to go in there for no reason and just spend an hour "exploring". We all like to do that.

But, even with all the improvements in the things they stock and sell……..

The Sandy Woodcraft store is almost beyond redemption. It is just awful.

It is simply the culture of the place………from the owner on down.

These are "our" stores.

We love to go into these places.

We love to just cruise the aisles just looking and learning and wishing and wanting.

They are important to all of us for all the right reasons.

------------------------------------------
(Please remember from right upfront:


"I have included my comments re: the Sandy, Utah Woodcraft ONLY to partner with Bert in his quest …" My hope is that someone from Woodcraft headquarters will read this post and act upon it, as this store could be great a store with a different owner/manager."*
*
*

I would NEVER **have shared publicly my thoughts/opinions like this if I didn't, as does Bert, have a little hope something might change. Change would be difficult because I believe that this Woodcraft store is owner-operated, so firing him is probably not an option…...............but training certainly is…..........and I hope…......so much….......that happens.

This could be a GREAT store……………very easily.


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## retfr8flyr (Oct 30, 2013)

Gerry, I already have to pay tax at Amazon, as they have a big distribution center now, it is still cheaper then buying local. With Prime I can have something I purchase at my door in 2 days and not spend $20 on gas running around trying to find it locally.

Bert I also tried to buy a BS from the Woodcraft store and it was a waste of time. Rikon had a national sale going at the time and they wouldn't discount their price. That was the last time I tried to purchase any machinery from them. When I happen to be in their area I will stop in and maybe get some wood, or other small things but I will never again try and deal with them for a major purchase.


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## Firewood (Dec 4, 2013)

I have no problems with the WC in Milwaukee. The staff is friendly and always willing to help. We also have a Rockler within a mile or so. I shop at both, but I prefer WoodCraft over Rockler when it comes to customer service.


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## cabmaker (Sep 16, 2010)

Bert,

Sorry you had a bad experiance.

But I gotta ask, what type of an experiance did they have with you?

They may have actually done you a favor, due to you leaving without the rikon bandsaw.

Other than some employee there making you feel stupid (how does that work), as you stated, exactly what was your bad experiance?

Are they (woodcraft) possibly having a bad experiance with you and many others who save a few bucks by buying through amazon with that amazing free shipping thing?

And you boast that you strive to support your local business folks.

just saying
JB


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

I've had some unpleasant experiences at WC in Columbus Ohio however the local store for me is at Clearwater Fla now. I've had nothing but good experiences there and have spent a lot of money there even though it's 35 miles away.
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't WC's a franchise and it takes 500k upfront to get one. I would think the store would bend over backwards to please the customer (which obviously in some cases they don't)

BTW, I quit going to the one in Columbus and took my business elsewhere.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Thank you Bruce.


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## Jim Jakosh (Nov 24, 2009)

I go there when they have a sale. Then the prices are good for me. I usually don't buy power tools there because they are high on normal tools, but I do like to look and drool!. Wood is too high for me too!

I do buy carving tools there because they have good selection and I get them on sale.

happy new year….........Jim


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

I have two WCs that I have gone to, one in Ventura, near where I live, and one in Clearwater, Florida (near where I worked at Cape Canaveral). Both are outstanding in terms of service. I've been treated respectfully in both. Too bad about some of the others. I must mention, BTW, that I've always been treated well at the Rockler store in Torrance, CA.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I need to make a run to WoodCraft Monday or Tuesday … I have a 10% birthday discount I need to burn off before the end of the month and could make good use of some of the items in their current sales brochure.


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## BentheViking (May 19, 2011)

I live about an hour+ from a woodcraft store (Norwalk, CT). I have had a similar experience as some of you other guys. Go in, mill around, ask questions, get minimal effort from the sales people. That being said I still like going there just to look around as they have many products that I couldn't see in person anywhere else. A few times I have called them and had them put a particular item on hold for me and then I have my wife pick them up one her way home from work. If I know exactly what I want and its not too big an item, sometimes I'll just order online so that I don't have to inconvenience the store.

I must add however the few times I've phoned customer service/sales they've been more than helpful. I needed to check if one DC fitting I ordered already would fit into a piece that I saw on the website since the first other peice I'd ordered didn't work. The sales person had someone from tech go down to the warehouse and play around to figure out the right piece. Once they had it she called me back and sent me the new peice at no cost and didn't make me return the old piece, as it was not worth their time I guess.


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## Lumber2Sawdust (Jul 22, 2010)

i used to work about 10 minutes from a Woodcraft store near Denver, CO. I have always had great experiences there. I want there frequently when I needed supplies. I also bought my SawStop there a couple years ago. They have always been very pleasant and helpful.

I also took a basic woodworking class there, which ended up being taught by the owner of the store. He's a nice guy and we usually have a chat about the projects we are working on when see him.

Like others have said, the brick and mortar stores don't always have the best prices, but I'm willing to pay a little more for holding a tool in my hand, or talking with an experienced sales person about the product I'm buying. Woodcraft (and Rockler) are also supporters of the woodworking guild that I am member of. Between their support, and a small discount for members, it is worth it for me to shop there.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

I used to have an office and work in Franklin Tennessee and loved to visit the WC there. 
Very friendly folks and sometimes they have great deals. 
Got my 6" Rikon Jointer there for $150. It was a clearance item. 
The newer model had the controls on a stalk above the tables where mine are under the table.
Wish I still had that job and the handy WC store just down the road a ways.
Now it's a 100 mile round trip.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Thank you all for your replies.
I wish you all a blessed and happy New Year


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Bert, it must have something to do with the name *Sandy* he's the manager of my local store here in Austin at 
8904 Research Blvd
Austin, TX 78758

I have issues with as well. I even wrote up bad review on yelp and google toward them it reads as follows.

"I will no longer do business with Woodcraft supply solely because of the manager Sandy, his attitude is poor at best, every time I call that requires I speak to him, he answers the phone as if he's got a chip on his shoulder and you are making it worse, His people skills are completely out the window, lacking big time. The employees that work there are on a different level all give great customer care and support but some lack in knowledge of what they have and or what it's used for so you need to know what it is you are looking for or have an item number with you, there are a few seasoned employees that have knowledge you have to be selective of who to ask for in order to get what you need.

I give them a thumbs down mainly due to the treatment I receive from the manager and his attitude."

What broke the final straw for me was when I called Sandy up to see if he was interested in some spalted hackberry turning blocks, I have to many and wanted to clear out some space so I called, once talking to him he sounded interested and wanted to see them so I had the time right then and asked if now was OK? He responded with yes come on out I'll be here, they are 24 miles one way from my house, once I got there, no Sandy he left the store, one of the staff said he had already left for the day, I was pissed!


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

From reading all of the responses seems there's a trend going with Woodcraft nation wide.

*Bert* and others that shop amazon prime, be careful of what you buy via Amazon, be sure to check local prices as well if it's sold local, being a prime member myself I've found on several occasions that local price was still cheaper then buying via amazon prime and getting it next day as some of the vendors work the expedited shipping cost into the price of the item upping the price of the item in comparison to your local box store price. It depends on what you are buying just be aware of that.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

I shop on line to death. 
I do not remember ever finding a local price lower that on Amazon.
Another advantage of Amazon is that I shop from home: no driving around, no waiting and no wasting of time.


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## Vincent (Mar 10, 2009)

I have shopped at all three PA woodcraft stores and I am generally pleased. I usually frequent the Allentown PA store due to its proximity to me. The staff there is good and generally knowledgeable. The store owner also owns the Harrisburg store and I have had similar experiences at that store. The Downingtown store is also decent. The owner also has the Delaware store. I usually check the store inventory online and if needed call to ask them to hold an item until I can pick it up. Overall, happy with the stores.


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

JB,
As a business owner and manager, I could not disagree with your post more. Good Customer Service has zero to do with the customers demenanor or what the experience was that the sales person recieved. It has everything to do with taking care of the person you are helping regardless if he has a chip on his shoulder or not. And I must say, you reap what you sow…if you are unhappy, then this what you will recieve in return. I have some cranky customers just like everyone else, but they too can have what they deam as a good experence if you treat them well. I tell my employees that their money is green, too. Now we DO NOT haggle over price, our prices are posted, the profit is how we pay our car payments and put food on our table. With our price comes good customer service, that has costs too. We just very nicely tell them that.

If sales associates are insulted when they have a sulky customer they are truly in the wrong job.
Just my .02
Mike


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Mike, I really like what you say.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

*Bert* here is an example of what I was talking about earlier.

Amazon Prime has this item Irwin Drill Press Vise listed under Prime for $29.28

Homedepot has the very same item Irwin Drill Press Vise same model number for $19.97

This is just one example, there have been many others times where I wand up buying local for cheaper.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Thanks Blakie


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## cabmaker (Sep 16, 2010)

Howdy Mike,

What a great country we live in my friend, where we can freely agree or disagree with anything.

But I'm a little unsure of what you have concluded here about the op s experiance, he did not give any info. About how he was greeted and or received unless I missed that. (Would not be the first)

I can certainly appreciate you being a business and manager, but your not alone in that arena.

Again. I'm just unsure why you feel the need to offer unsolicited counsel based on very sketchy information!

You should no better based on your experiance as one of your given trades.

No disrespect intended here,just saying.
JB


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## RibsBrisket4me (Jul 17, 2011)

I don't have a WC right close to me but have been to the stores in San Antonio and Dallas while on business in those towns. Sure is nice to see top quality hardwoods and woodworking tools up close, powermatic, jet, saw stop , new delta uni saw and rikon.

Great customer service. Prices are a bit high, but that is the cost for seeing the hardwoods and woodworking machines up close. I,ve always found something I "needed" when I was in there haha.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

I think what JB is stating is that Bert did not give any other information, what his post is based on, which I think is a fair question only just come out and ask, it's very simple all you have to do is ask nicly "Hey Bert tell me your story I'd like to know what happened?" Like I said it's very simple you get your point across with out having to beat around the bush with a bunch of jumbo that can be misconstrued.

JB don't just focus on Bert's post look at all the others that's had bad experience, as I mentioned earlier he's not the only one.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

I went to this store several times in the last few years.
I bought a few things: two wood rivers planes that I really like,a HVLP spray paint system, I took a wood turning class and I bougth several other small things.
More than anything else,what really made me start this post is the attitude of the people working in this store.
Like many other noticed,some the employees are around the cash registers talking between themselves, apparently not very eager to help the customers and not as knowledgeable as I expect them to be.
But most important what makes me dislike this store is the feeling that I had several times, I am treated like a moron, like someone who has no idea of what he is talking about or who does not know what he is doing.
My last experience with the manager was the most unpleasant one , when looking to buy a new iron to install in a #3 Craftsman plane.
The guy at the cash register tried to help looking for blade in a display cabinet but not finding what I needed he then asked the manager for help.
The manager made "fun of me" wanting to buy and to install a "good blade" in such a junk plane like if I had no idea of what I had or what I was doing.
I did not like his attitude at all.
In the past I already had this kind of feeling in this store.
Like if instead of helping, informing and instructing a possibly not very knowledgeable customer they make fun of him or make him feel uncomfortable for his lack of knowledge.
In this case I knew perfectly well what I was doing.
This is just the last experience and it just added to other unpleasant experiences I had in this store before.


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## 489tad (Feb 26, 2010)

Woodridge IL store, no complaints.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I also wish the local Woodcraft store was closer. I have to drive about 40 or so miles one way. If it were 20 miles away I would go to it very often. I like all of the people there and they keep a good stock and keep the store clean and well organized.

I'm not discounting what you are saying at all because there are bound to be a lot of differences from store to store. You can have bad apples in any franchise. That's the nature of people.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

Jb,
What I disagreed with was your statement,

_But I gotta ask, what type of an experience did they have with you?_

In my opinion, and referencing my previous comment, the experience they had with Bert is irrelavant to giving good customer service.

I certainly appreciate your opinion….god knows in my "other job" it is a constant struggle to get "both sides of the story"....this is just my opinion. Make no mistake I am not trying to come off as a know it all, or and model for business management. In 35 years of working here, have I ever said anything I regret…absolutely….I know better, and I try to make it a rare occurance. And as an owner I have had up to 12 employees ( we used to have a Camera Store too) and dealing with all those personalites is no simple task either…..I am not judging WC at all, but it certainly sounds form all the comments they have at least three customers that are dis-satisfied.
Mike


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## mcase (Oct 31, 2009)

What a surprise I'm not alone. I've been in the woodworking business for 36 year and cannot recall a ruder or more self-defeating retailer than Woodcraft Woburn. I have spent thousands in this store - everything from big ticket items like industrial SS table saws to fine woodworking chisels. I have noticed over the years that the staff has varied. In the past they have had some crews who were indifferent and some who were helpful. But the current manager is not indifferent, he really seems to hate his job and takes it out by being outrageously rude to the customer. I try to be polite and friendly when I make a purchase, I really do. When I return a product I do so because it is defective - not because I just changed my mind. Most retailers appreciate this, but not Woodcraft in Woburn. Here if you have a problem with a product your dirt as far the manger is concerned and he lets you know it too. I've only returned a few products over the years and always because the product had a problem due to a manufacturing defect. Woodcrafts official policy is 30 days to return if not satisified. Well that's the official line anyway and it may really be the parent company's actual position because its true with their online purchases - it's a great company online by the way. But, at the Woburn store the manager seems to work by his own guidelines . Here returning a defective item with the receipt, a cogent explanation of the defect, and a polite attitude gets you such responses as " I don't care what's wrong with it, it looks fine to me." or "Too bad it is what is." Woodcrafts are franchises and its like the wild west. A lot of owners are absentee landlords and just don't give a damn. I sent this complaint to Woodcraft and they said they would forward it to the store. Yeah right! its the store that is the problem. The only answer is to vote with your wallet.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Thank you mcase, I already have voted with my wallet.
I just wish someone from woodcraft reads and answer these posts.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

Bert, I would sit down and write a letter, use my guidelines below. Throughout the letter leave personal attacks and the word "demand" out, no need your letter is a "demand".

1. explain the problem, use your personal experience or whatever evidence you have as support to the issue, specific names are helpful.
2. explain what happened as a result of this issue, i.e. you spend 250.00 somewhere else, how often
3. lay out your expectations on what needs to be improved, no deadlines this is not needed. do add how you like the store and it does have many good items you might buy but this is hindered by your complaint.
4. be sure to very sneaky like tell them you are a LJ member and this issue has come up time and again, (cite say 2 examples) 
5. send your rough draft to a pro, or at least someone not directly involved with the complaint let them make suggestions.
6. at the bottom make a list of no less than 6 public and know entities, BBB, LJ's, any woodworkers guild, the local Chamber of Commerce be creative.
7. send it to the President/CEO of the company, spend a few dollars and make it return receipt.

I have use this exact method for a variety of issues both for myself and others over the years and had excellent success. They respond when they see you put time and thought into it without the emotional "demands" most send them. People at the top can make changes NOW, right NOW when they see a issue that might explode like year old rotten eggs with their name attached to it. Franchisee's may run the store operations but Woodcraft runs the name and how business will be done. Despite what the owner/manager says they still are puppets to some extent and those strings can be pulled if needed.

If for some odd reason they blow you off, I have the next step. It really gets people's attention at the top and usually they wish they had dealt with the issue the first time correctly. Nobody likes dirty underwear show to the public ya know?


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

woodbutcherbynight, thank you for your excellent suggestion but I do not care enough for doing what you suggest. I live very well without shopping at this store.
Thank you again.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Bert, if you do decide to mail, you might also included this thread with all of it's complaints with all the many stores across the nation that have complaints about in your letter, my store is just exactly like Mcase is here in Austin, TX

As a matter of fact I just unsubscribed to the woodcraft mailing list yesterday morning along with their mags.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

*+1 Blackie_* good idea, include the thread, exec types pay attention when it is a public forum

Bert, an hour of your time could make the next visit a lifetime of savings and change the store completely for everyone. Have fun with it, I inject my own version of wit and love coming up with quaint phrases that just keep them scratching that head wondering what the heck. Send me a copy I will have my wife translate it in Russian and send you back a tri lingual response, English, Russian and some pictures of a donkeys butt to get the point across. CEO's love pictures man! 
ROFLMAO


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## mprzybylski (Nov 21, 2011)

Like Dan above (489tad) I go to the woodridge IL store. The staff is always very friendly and eager to help. The manager is a very jolly guy and they have good stock on hand. If they don't have something they'll order it for me and call when ready. My local Rockler, on the other hand, is a mixed bag. Sometimes they are very helpful and sometimes just downright rude. I still go there because I don't mind just ignoring the rude ones.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

I just sent by email the link to this post to Woodcraft corporate.
This is as much as I will do.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

I will try to find a copy of a "2cent letter" I sent to an old employer years ago to get something resolved and send it to you. My method got results within 24 hours of delivery to the CEO's hands, a return letter, and a call from the Ops VP and a day later from the HR VP to insure the matter was handled and I was satisfied with the results. A year later my DM was in a class for problem solving and this letter got put up on the screen for discussion. He told me he laughed the entire time as nobody could believe a "lowly mechanic" wrote to the CEO.


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## ryanwoodcraft (Jan 29, 2014)

Dear Bert and CPLUSWoodworker,

I'd like to introduce myself. I'm Ryan and I'm the new owner of the Sandy, UT Woodcraft. Your blog was brought to my attention by Woodcraft Corporate Customer Service and I believe it merits a response from me.

I checked your purchase history and noticed that you haven't bought anything in the store since 2010. I purchased the store just 8 months ago and we've been making some big changes. I would love the chance to earn your business back along with anybody else who has had a negative experience with my store prior to me purchasing it. I don't believe that i've had the opportunity to meet either of you and would love to meet you each at the store if you feel so inclined. One of the questions you'll find that I have commonly asked is "How can I improve the store for it's customers?" (You). We've started to cary a number of items that were specifically requested by customers kind enough to let me know that they'd love to buy them from me rather than on line.

I recognize that many people have had a negative experience with the previous owner of the store, and that it will be impossible for me to please every person that comes through my door now. Some people are just hard to please!

Based on the comments from CPLUSWoodworker… (Long ago, I once asked this owner about a lower price on a drill press and he went OFF:

"Do you guys want me here or not? Then I have to make a little profit……so leave my damn prices alone".) I don't think I was the person you dealt with as I have only been in the store a short while.

My intent here is not to "call anybody out" rather to protect my livelihood and to encourage anybody that has had a bad experience to please give us another try. My store would certainly be a terrible place without my customers.

Thank You,

Ryan


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## C_PLUS_Woodworker (Jun 10, 2010)

Ryan:

A couple of things:

Sincere congratulations on your purchase of the Sandy store. I am certain that was not an easy or inexpensive process. So, again, congratulations.

I think it great that someone from your store responded. VERY much respected and appreciated.

I absolutely will introduce myself the next time I am in. Your interest, response and invitation is also very much appreciated and respected. You deserve to know with whom you are dealing, and not just some unknown entity on a website. I will do that. Count on it.

I am surprised….........but maybe it is not realistic ..........that no one in your store, including yourself, are (or have not been) monitoring the main wood-working sites (like this one) for comments regarding *our *experiences at *your *store. I find it unfortunate that it took a memo from Corp (who got an email from Bert ….as he stated in this Forum) for you to learn of *our *comments regarding *your *store.

As to your comment that I had purchased nothing since 2010, well, that is very curious, inaccurate and just plain wrong.

For starters, I do not believe the info I have on this site includes my name, address or zip code. If you have that information I would appreciate a PM as to how that information was found.

Next, when purchasing an item in your store, I am ALWAYS asked for my name or zip or something, so that you guys can keep track of your customers and our purchases. I usually do not cooperate with that process in almost any/all stores that ask it, but I like being on your mailing list and did, indeed, give all my personal info to your store. They Always ask if that is ME they have just pulled up on their screen when checking out.

I purchase supplies and small items from your store regularly. The only option to your store in my area is Johnson Bros, (formerly Timberline) in Orem. So you get a lot of small sales from me. Especially items that I want to "touch and feel and evaluate" as opposed to buying on-line and having never seen or touched or evaluated that item in person.

I am at your store several times a year…........maybe close to 6-8-10 times per year. I live two hours away, so a visit to your store is always one of many stops we have to make. I do not always buy something while there…...sometimes I just come in to drool….... and sometimes I come in to confirm just how much better I like my UniSaw over the SawStop (best used for door stops, boat anchors, etc.)

I made several positive comments in my post #21 regarding your store. I hope you found my review to be balanced in nature.

In addition to those positive comments made previously, I noticed, a couple of weeks back, that you are also stocking a larger selection of General Finishes. Or, at least it appeared that way to me. I have been of particular interest as to finishes of late, so maybe that accounts for why I spent so much time going over your stock of finishes.

I should also explain why all the comments re: me making small purchases. Well, that is becasue I FINALLY got my dream shop and do not need any more expensive equipment. That is such a joy …...to walk around a store like yours or M&M or Timberline and say to myself "Isn't it nice you do not have to WISH and HOPE for that tool". It feels so very good to have everything I need. Most of the time, when I go back into the house, I say "I love my shop". I love having the right tool for the right job and not having to Make-Do as I have had to do when feeding a young family." My wife "get's that" and I am truly content …...... deliriously happy often…......with my shop as it presently is..

How could you know of my purchasing history if you did not have access to my personal information?

I am certainly not "registered" as *C PLUS Woodworker *in your files.

Again I appreciate, so very much, your response and post here on this site today.

I have a feeling that the process "you and I" will shortly begin …..will have very positive outcomes.

Again, my appreciation and respect for your post.


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## casual1carpenter (Aug 16, 2011)

C_PLUS, it is interesting that Ryan of the Sandy, UT store posted and tried to make an effort to say hi and "give me a chance guys", but he was the only owner so far at any rate. It might have been nice to see a post from Woodcraft Company, saying "we want to hear". Nicer yet would be, we like the site, but really, all of those HD adverts, we need to change that to Woodcraft adverts, LOL.

If I had a picture up and it was the guys from my local Delaware store they could tell you my name, phone number, and recent purchase history before they ever look at the register / computer. I guess I'm memorable.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Thank you Ryan both for your email and for your post here. 
I bought only a few things at this store during the years and I do not think that this will change anytime soon for the simple reason that I go o the store only when I cannot find what I am looking for anywhere else.
My two first choices always are Harbor Freight and Amazon. 
Sorry,I am cheap.
I shall stop by one of these days to introduce myself and to shake your hand.
Again thank you for your reply.
Bertrand


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

*b2rtch* Interesting development, you did something and they acted on it. While you may not get anything out of it others may benefit from you taking a moment to speak your peace.

*CPlusWoodworker* has a good point about the claim to not have bought anything since 2010. What they are using some facial recognition monitors?? Scanning tags on our vehicles?? Accessing credit card databases?? Tracing our IP's?? That part of the reply is odd, leaves so much room for the wrong idea to be taken.

*Ryan* best of luck with your business, today's market is tough with information at our fingertips via the internet. b2rtch is a tough cookie with a dollar, you get him to spend some money you should get an award. LOL


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Compare with the LV experience described here:
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/57617


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## ryanwoodcraft (Jan 29, 2014)

CPLUSWOODWORKER,

I only looked at Bert's purchase history because I had his name. Sorry for the confusion, sometimes its hard to talk to two different people at once. Looking forward to meeting you.

Bert,

No hard feelings, I look forward to meeting you too.

P.S. $10 off your next purchase on me. (Both of you)

Ryan


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## C_PLUS_Woodworker (Jun 10, 2010)

*Ryan*

Electronic conversations are extremely prone to miscommunication and to misinterpretation.

All is good

Thanks for the follow-up.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

By the way , Ryan be very welcome on Lumberjocks, I hope that you will visit often.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

WOW, what a nice outcome from *Bert's* actions, thanks *Ryan* for taking the time to act and respond to those in your immediate and surrounding area, a huge plus in character and customer service on your part also congrats on your new adventure.

Myself I'm not in your area, wish I was, I'm in Texas but It'd be nice to hear something or a response in regards to my local store here in Austin as the manager of ours is a sour note to say the least and I've boycotted woodcraft due to his actions and service that I've received from the store in Austin, Texas I understand that you have no control in my area but sure wish you did.

Thanks
Randy Blackstock


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## Woodbum (Jan 3, 2010)

My store in N OKC is a good place to shop. They don't always have the inventory or the pricing structure that you can find on the internet, but shopping local keeps small business like this franchise in business. I do not remember having a bad experience in any Woodcraft store that I have visited in OK, KS, MO or TX. I was there today and got great service and found what I needed and some of what I didn't really NEED but wanted. The franchisee has both the Tulsa and OKC stores and they are both very different. Nothing else in OKC except the big box joints who specialize in homeowners and contractors. Not much specialty stuff there.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I lost my local store a number of years ago and really miss it. Yes, I can drive 50-150 miles to another one but that is a long ways.

If I were near Sandy Utah, I would be glad to go to the store. Yes, some of these stores are a bit higher than the internet but that is the cost of business. Personally, I will pay a little more to be able to actually feel a tool or part rather than a keyboard. Being able to talk to a person about a tool is a real plus.

Good Luck in Sandy Utah


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