# Japanese hand tools



## planeBill

I don't really see much about J tools mentioned here but I have come to appreciate them more and more after having used them a lot through school and in my shop (when I had one). They certainly can be confusing and buying used or vintage certainly carries with it an element of anxiety because it is usually a gamble, something I don't have the money to take much of. Buying from a reputable dealer is the best way to go but can be very expensive. So how do I buy the ones I have? I have both taken gambles and bought from a good dealer. Needless to say I have few quality J-tools but cherish them all. The quality is usually very high and they really impart that quality onto the joints Ive made with them. Familiarizing yourself with the known top makers, and even the acceptable makers, and looking for their tools around ebay, used tool dealers and elsewhere can pay off with due diligence. Mitsukawa saws are made in a variety of levels of quality but I have found that even his lower end saws really are nice tools. Koyamaichi chisels are an excellent tool at a very reasonable price, albeit a little bit higher than most top quality western makers. Again, ebay is a good place to find some real gems. Ive learned a few of the traits common to good chisels, though they don't always apply (again, the confusion), who good makers are, at least the few of the hundreds who are known to us here, and what physical characteristics to look for. Still though, most of the time its a gamble going it alone. Fortunately sometimes they can be had for not a lot of cash but the shipping is usually pretty high.
Ive recently began to dabble in the natural stones. You can often buy small pieces of really expensive stones from a reputable dealer for a lot less than the full sized stone to try out, and sharpening a chisel doesn't take a lot of stone so it works out pretty good.
Does anyone have any favorite J tools that they would like to share with the forum? What they are, where you got them, and /or / how and when you got them? How do you feel about them in general.
I recently bought this little boat builders hammer for not a lot of cash (knew it was a cheapy) really just to try making a handle for it.


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## Nicky

I have a set of Koyamaichi chisels with Red Oak handles. They are awesome. These hold an edge longer then anything else I've used. The set was given to me as a gift by coworkers. I don't know where they were purchased. Been using the set for 5 years

I've also purchased a few Nakaya Dozuke saws. I use these exclusively for dovetails and they are a joy to use. I bought my first Dozuke from Woodworkers supply. I don't remember the brand, but I really became very comfortable with sawing on the push stroke. I did not properly care for this saw and had damaged the teeth over time. I bought another from "Tools from Japan" a few years back, and have since purchased a Rip dozuke.


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## planeBill

Nicky, congratulations. Koyamaichi chisels are really nice tools. I dont own any yet but a friend of mine graciousley allowed me to use his and I was hooked. Would you care to post some pics of your set? My J chisels are a mix of unknowns and a few Ouichi.
I can barely use a western saw anymore. Do you know which Nakaya is the maker of your saw? There are several, I think. Regardless, youre right, they are a joy to use. I own a rip dozuki from Mitsukawa and its a scary sharp saw. A 1" dovetail in cherry takes 2 pulls sometimes three but it cuts effortlessly.
Tools from Japan's owner, Stuart Tierney (hope I spelled that correctly) is a great guy and really helpfull. In fact he is going to be the source of my chisels. I am saving now and Im almost there and when I reach my goal I intend to buy these








and that will be a happy day!! These are called chu-tataki, which translates to medium striking chisel. They are about 11" total length whereas the regular chisels, or common bench chisels are about 8 1/2" in length. Since I do more large scale work than mos folks I thought, as did Stuart, that these would be more appropriate for me. They are simply bigger in all respects than the regular chisels. I am going to get mine with the boxwood handles and the hand hammered hoops,hopefully, if all goes according to plan. 
here is a shot for comparison with the normal bench chisels.








Here is my little saw collection and the stand I made to store them in/on.

















I have no idea why some of my pics post out of rotation like this. They are not like this in my pictures folders!!


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## waho6o9

Awesome thread, a favorite for sure.

I have Shark pull saws which copies the finer made saws and it works well. More 
Japanese pull saws are in my future as well.

Ebay offers a Japanese chisel set at an affordable price. The balance and edge retention
are great. Although I can't compare it to other Japanese chisels, I would figure the higher
priced chisels are a joy to use and tune up.









The craftsmanship on these chisels is crazy cool


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## Nicky

I'm on travel (well actually stuck in Atlanta airport) so not able to snap any pics. I did a quick search and found a similar set from google image; here what my set looks like (they did come in a nice wooden box)










Here is the link for the saw(s) ... I first purchased the crosscut, about a year later I picked up the RIP. Looking next at purchasing a double sided saw.

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=316_333_390&products_id=634

I like your saw storage.

Good luck with your purchases. These are expensive tools but will last generations with a little TLC


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## planeBill

Nicky, hope you get out of Atlanta soon. Not going to Japan by any chance are you? ;-) Are the chisels used mainly or dovetails? Nice looking tools. You bought them as a set? Where from?
I was looking at that very same saw at one point, how do you like it?
Ive gotta, of al of my J saws I find the ryoba the last usefull. I much prefer the kataba and the dozuki. The dozuki is pretty limited in its uses but excells at its jobs. A kataba can be had in rip and crosscut. I think Ive read that it is actually what the oiginal J saw was, the ryobas and dozukis being a much later development. I always seem to reach for the single edged saws in my rack. 
whoho6o9, do you have those chisels? How do you use them? General woodworking? Was the type of steel stated on the packaging anywhere?
Ive bought two chisels from ebay, older but decent ones that I knew would need some tuning and rehabbing just to practice setting up and tuning them for when the big day comes and I get my package in the mail.


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## woodcox

Wow, great start to a much needed topic. Thanks bill. I hope to see it flourish with good input on J tools and their techniques. 
My small collection of Vaughan bear saws. They offer another handful of various type blades I dont have yet. Although no dozuke type available. All blades and handles are interchangeable. Made in Japan and are quite sharp. Durability is excellent for manufactured blades. I believe I paid less than $90.for all shipped directly from Vaughan.








At left is my new favorite the Shinto saw rasp. It can hog it out fast or delicately shape to a smooth finish.


























My latest project, I'm at pause until I can come up with a top for them as this will be my primary work bench.
Nice till bill! Are those magnets on the top sides?


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## planeBill

Magnets, yes they are. I ran out of slots for my growing saw arsenal. WOW!! I really like your bench base!! They even look oriental-ish. Very cool.
I certainly hope to see a sharing of information on technique as well. Maybe some inspiration for folks to dig out the unused J tools they have stashed away in the deep dark corners of their workshops.
My little damascas kiridashi. A razor could only dream of being this sharp. ;-)


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## planeBill

Sorry I forgot the pics in that post. The really beautiful haze on the bevel highlighting the different layers comes from a natural stone. I love it. Its hazy and shiny at the same time. Weird.


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## mafe

Cool sawholder, I like the design.
I am a big fan of Japanese tools and have to say I most of the time reach for them in my workshop.
You can find a lot of info in my blogs and posts about setting up, restoring and making Japanese tools.
Nice stuff being posted in this thread.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## planeBill

Thanks mafe. I must confess, I saw a "similar" design on daiku dojo and modified it a bit, I liked it too. Thanks very much for the tip about your blog. Im off to check it out now.


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## LRR

Woodcox, if you want a Japanese work bench all you have to add to the legs is a piece of 4 X 12×8' piece of pine that you have done some smoothing on. Here is one that Chris Schwarz mentioned, but I have seen it in other places. http://www.popularwoodworking.com/workbenches/schwarz-workbenches/a-japanese-workbench


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## mafe

;-)


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## woodcox

Thanks LRR. My limited shop space demands mobiliy. I chose the trestles for this reason. I'm thinking of a traditional or full functioning top as far as size and work holding capabilities. I just have to make it removable/stowable. Logistics and features need to be well thouht out,as with any big bench project.


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## HorizontalMike

Nice looking saw stand, but I would be afraid of having the business end of so many pull-saws facing me in one location and all at once. Maybe a bit of plexiglass in front for safety, where you could still see the blades for choosing the correct one each time. Just a thought…


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## planeBill

I guess I just not that afraid. I call it livin on the edge.


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## HorizontalMike

Maybe I'm just a bit edgy today, having jammed my 1/4in chisel into and across the butt of my palm yesterday (1/4in deep and 1in long). Bled like a stuck pig, but managed to get it together without stitches. I don't like making mistakes and while my mistake was with a chisel, I do respect their amazing ability to cut without effort. Do be careful.


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## mafe

Auuuch Mike.


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## theoldfart

Hey Mike, does that mean it was bloodwood? Or maybe bleeding for your craft! Be careful buddy, nick a nerve and you won't be happy.


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## eao2012

Forgive me, but I don't know much about Japanese chisels. Can ya'll shed some light on what makes them so desirable? I know that they are made of better steel and retain their edge longer and also that they have grooves on the face which helps the face stay flat and makes it lighter. But what else sets them apart from your average joe chisel?


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## rfusca

Does anybody know if the lesser line from japan woodworker is worth buying?
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/category/12769/japan-woodworker-bench-chisels.aspx


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## planeBill

Well, you partially answered your own question. The hollow is there to reduce the amount of steel there is to sharpen, reducing friction and as said, the amount of steel to be removed. I don't think it has anything to do with helping to stay flat or saving weight. I know that the balance factor is in favor of J chisels IMHO. They feel really nice in the hand. A lot of folks don't like the feel of the striking hoops and I would guess that its because they are used to using a western type chisel, and believe me I have nothing against western chisels. ( See my post in the "Can we talk chisels" thread ). They come in a wide variety of styles to suit different applications and generally just look cool. But seriously I think your points about them having harder steel and holding an edge longer are the major factors, at least for me. Even those two factors are not that big of a deal to me because I seem to be weird and like the act of sharpening. Also, they, for the most part, are just good quality tools and there is nothing wrong with that is there? There are plenty of junk J chisels out there too though just like western tools.
One thing I will say is that J chisels do require more time in setting up and tuning (though that was fun for me too ) than western types and it is a bit of a learning curve so if you want to take something from the box and get working asap, western chisels are the way to go.
Speaking about sharpening, J chisels may require a bigger investment in stones. I have a few beater J's and the steel is so damn hard I didn't think I was going to be able to get a keen edge on either of them but after a considerable investment in time and effort they are fine and have been so for quite some time. That's sort of the amazing par t of the whole thing, I paid 20 bucks for both of them and they are super sharp and stay that way. Pretty cool I think.
I should add that while I say beaters or junk chisels, I really don't know what these two chisels are or who made them, bought them off of ebay (took a chance), they may very well be good quality chisels but I cannot read the characters on them.


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## planeBill

Chris, no I don't personally. I thought that I remembered reading some stuff about them somewhere on the www but can not find anything now. For 20 or 30 bucks you could, if you can, buy one and see for yourself. A lot of really good smiths make several different lines but all are usually of good quality with different levels of fit and finish which is exactly what I thought I remembered reading about the JWW chisels, that they are actually made by a very reputable smith, just sort of rough in the finish dept. I'll keep looking though.


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## LRR

planeBill where did you get that beautiful damascas kiridashi, or with a Japanese tool should I ask you who was its maker? Is it a 1/2" size?


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## planeBill

I received it as a gift from my wife. Maker is Yamamoto.


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## planeBill

Ive since added a few new(old) tools to my growing arsenal of tools from the east. I went on a hammer binge (OCD?) and made new handles for them, bought a new set of Koyamaichi chu-tataki chisels from Tools From Japan, some chisels from ebay, and two planes from ebay. Also one bad ass saw from ebay. 
These two hammers I bought from overseas. one from 33omate.com (quite the nightmare) and the other from JNS in Denmark. Believe it or not both handles are from the same piece of wood, a stick of firewood actually. Hornbeam that I got when I was in Michigan earlier this year to make a few mallets. The mallets never materialized but it do make a fine handle.
First is a Masatsura(you may know him by Masayuki) daruma, 450 gram weight, rasp finish that I just love the looks and feel of, its not too heavy, not too light, just right for me. The finish and attention to detail is what I expected for this price and it is a very nice tool. The handle design and shape I got from watching Master Masayuki fashion a handle right in his shop for another one of his tools. Of course he used Gumi but the shape is real nice and fits the hand even nicer. I of course added little elements here and there to make it mine but the basic concept is his.



































Another Masatsura, same weight and finish but is the more regular dimensions, meaning not the short bodied daruma, same finish and same handle material but is all heartwood.



























wedgeless attachment on both hammers.

Next is an ebay hammer with a whiteoak handle. I know it looks like red oak but I really believe its white. About 300 grams and cleaned up right nice.









and two Fukushima funate hammers.These are supposedly boatbuilders hammers and since that is what I am I thought wh not. They are just the ticket for peening copper rivets and such. Not a real high end product but I really like them and since I do actually beat around on stuff with these I am glad they didn't cost what the others did or I would never take them on the job. They are actually pretty darned nice tools IMHO. The small one has a hornbeam stick and the other is that white oak that looks like red oak. OOPS! I don't have pics of the larger Fukushima but it looks exactly like the smaller one but with an oak handle and weighs 460 grams.
Ill post pics of my other stuff in another post. Thanks for looking. Id like to see this thread continue. Anything Japanese, projects, tools or both, projects you've made with your J-tools, whatever. I know there are a few folks on here as fascinated with these mysterious master craftsman as I always have been.


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## djwong

Those handles you fashioned are very nice. Is the hammer head secured to the handle strictly by wood expansion (assuming you compressed the wood to get it on the hammer head)? I really like the "file finish" on the 2nd Masatsura you show. I use an inexpensive 375g daruma style hammer I picked up from Hida tools, as my everyday chisel hammer. I also have a 570g and 750g, for those big mortises (which I never do anymore).

My favorite retailers are Hida tools, Tools from Japan, and Mandaraya (大工道具の曼陀羅屋). The owner of Mandaraya does not speak english, but my wife is japanese, so she can occasionally be persuaded to handle the correspondence for me. The shop ships EMS overseas.


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## planeBill

djwong, thanks for the kind words. I followed So Yama********************as' instructions for making and installing the handles I made. I did compress the fibers of the wood and then slowly and incrementally inserted them into the sockets of each head. Both of the Masatsura(Masayuki) heads have the same finish. I really like the look of it too. I really like the damascas and layered steel ones but at almost 600.00 I don't like them that much. 
Perhaps I will try Hida for a future purchase having had two experiences with two of, what were purported to be, the best and most reputable dealers of J tools out there that really left a very bad taste in my mouth. Ive not heard of Mandaraya. Are they in Japan? Do they have a website?
Here is a nice little block plane I picked up on ebay for next to nothing. I don't know the level of quality but it will take a razor edge, has a laminated blade and chipbreaker and the body is in excellent condition as is the mouth.
Im only wearing the gloves because I had just oiled everything and didn't want to get it on the wood body. Its not a priceless tool or anything.


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## planeBill

Another handle waiting for some metal.
















Mostly ebay finds.


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## planeBill

And my newest chisels.


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## planeBill

How about a new(old) saw. I had to make my own handle for this. I had some basswood laying around and seeing how the handles for J saws are usually very light paulownia, I figured basswood wouldn't affect the balance too much.


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## djwong

Your Koyamaichi chisels look great. Should last you a long time. I have a couple of old Iroyoi tataki (timber) chisels with boxwood handles also. My regular bench chisels are a mix of Matsumura, Ooichi, and Fujihiro. I'll get some pictures of my tools up later.

Sorry about your two retail experiences. I have had good luck at Hida and Tools from Japan. The Mandaraya link is here. Unfortunately, the owner does not speak english. For sharpening stones, you can also checkout chefknivestogo.com. Good variety and prices.

I have purchased a few planes on ebay, but have been batting about a 60% satisfaction rate. Some of them have very loose and tired dai's. Nowadays, I mostly skip the bargain planes.


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## planeBill

How do you like the ooichi chisels? I hear they are quite good tools. Can we please stay in contact so you can help me with ordering from the link you gave me? WOW!!!! I have never seen such a collection of beautiful, high quality tools in one place like that!


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## BillWhite

Love this thread. Let's keep it goin' 'cause I know very little about Japanese tools.
Neither can I sit on the floor while working. )
Bill


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## Timbo

Like this thread too, hope to learn more about these fine tools. I have a set of Kawasei chisels that are just a joy to use. Any one familiar with Kawasei?


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## Tim457

Can you add any pointers about that saw? I can't picture how the long handle would help.

P.S. Maybe I should find a new screen name, you were here first, Tim.


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## JGM0658

I can't picture how the long handle would help.

Sawing techniques are different with Japanese saws. It looks like planeBill made a cross cut saw, but when you are ripping, one of the techniques is to stand in front of the board, grab the saw with both hands and saw this way. It sounds counter intuitive but it works wonderfully.


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## Tim457

I'm sure it works, they don't kid around with their woodworking, but I can't picture what techniques would make it work. i.e. I need a video.  Preferably with some English explanation, my Japanese isn't so good.


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## JGM0658

Sorry, I could not find the video where I saw it done. It was in Japanese though.


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## planeBill

Tim, yes I have heard about Kawasei chisels. Theyre supposed to be very high quality tools though I have not actually handled any but from reading I know many who consider them to be well worth the prices Ive seen on them. Do you own oire nomi or something else? What type of handle material do they have. What are your personal opinion about them? How is the fit and finish and attention to detail in the construction?
My saw handle may be a bit longer than those seen on this type of saw but not by much. It is mainly for crosscutting large timbers or logs and the longer handle, if held correctly will allow a little more downward pressure. I happen to like it a lot.


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## Timbo

Bill, I pieced together a set of Shinogi Oire Nomi (full width bevel for cleaning out dovetails) and Suminagashi Oire Nomi (hand forged Damascus steel). The handles are red oak, the fit and finish are very good. Here are a few pics, the last pic is package from the maker when he sent an additional hoop that I lost. Wonderful chisels and a joy to use.


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## planeBill

Oooooweeee thats sexy!makes mine look bargain basement. Are all of his chisels that inkdrop steel? Just beautiful. Thats what I was hoping to see when I started this thread, really beautiful tools like these. Thanks for sharing with us.


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## Timbo

The 3 smallest chisels are not Damascus, the others are, glad you enjoyed the pics. I like the looks of yours too, are the handles boxwood?


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## planeBill

Yes, the handles are boxwood, or gumi, if that's the same thing. On the tools from japan website they are listed as gumi so I think its the same thing.


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## Timbo

Any recommendations for a chisel hammer? how to know what weight to get?

@Bill, your hammer handle turned out great btw.


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## planeBill

I forgot to mention this but Im glad to know that you use your chisels, sort of makes it easier for me to hit mine for the first time, something Ive yet to do but I know I have to eventually. I only just got them a week or so ago. Yours are really super nice.
Hammer weights. I don't know that I can actually recommend a weight for you personally. I think that will have to be something you have to determine what feels good to you. I think the most popular weight though is 300 to 375 grams. I do have one close to that at 275 and I could swing that all day. My Masatsura hammers are both 460 grams and my funate hammers are 225 and 575 grams. I personally prefer the 460 gram heads, they just feel better to me. I can always choke up on the haft a little if I feel like it but that's about right for me plus I tend to do a lot of larger scale works. Not saying I don't do small furniture scale project too but its mostly been bigger stuff, especially lately and the extra weight is nice.
The funate hammers are mainly for boat work. The pointed end is just the berries for peening copper rivets. Its also very handy for adjusting plane blades. 
If your looking for a recommendation for a maker my vote has to go to Masayuki (Masatsura). You can find his tools at Japanese Natural Stones, 330mate (has the best prices) and also at the link that djwong gave above (best selection). His tools exhibit all of the attributes that I admire Japanese tools for, beauty, craftsmanship and precision and unfortunately the one attribute I don't like, high price. Hiroki would be second on my list. Again, all of the same attributes as above but maybe to a slightly lesser degree, and I mean slight. Masayuki hammers just do it for me. Both of them studied and apprenticed under the same master Hasegawa Kouzaburou, the God of all hammer smiths. His hammers are very rare now and command astronomical prices, but I would still love to have one, just to have one. There is also Tenryu (sp) and I don't know if that is a smith or a company but they make some nice looking tools. Maybe someone here can educate me. I think JapanWoodworker sells them. I really like the one with the hammered finish. Hiroki makes a cool looking stainless steel one that would be just the ticket for me since I work on boats and the environment is not nice to non stainless tools.


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## planeBill

As much as I admire the J tools I have to admit to having a real affinity for my stanley planes. I always have used them right along side of my J tools and always felt fine about it, theyre fine tools and Im comfortavle with them. Lately though, being that a kanna is really the only tool I dont have from Japan, besides the little block plane and a rabbet plane, Ive been thinking about maybe buying one decent smoother. They are supposed to be the epitome of simplicity but options abound. Can anyone tell me what is a closed mouth dai and what is an open mouth dai and what are the advantages/disadvantages of either/both? Thanks.


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## djwong

Hi Bill,

There is no functional difference between a closed and open mouth dai. A closed mouth dai has a small section that extends under the bevel of the blade, named a tsutsumi. The stated function of the tsutsumi is to provide additional support for the blade on the bevel down side, almost to the cutting edge. In reality, a tsutsumi can cause problems if not trimmed properly. I have read the real reason for the tsutsumi is to show a higher quality dai. The tsutsumi cannot be made by machine, only by hand. I must admit that the tsutsumi does look cool.

I recommend you get the ebook "getting the most from your kanna"' by Desmond King. I bought it on amazon for $4.99. There is also a fantastic series of videos on youtube posted by sumokun, on buying and tuning Kanna's.


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## planeBill

David
So it just adds a little extra support to the blade edge? I wonder what the proportion of the planes bought have that type of dai. Of your planes, how many have that type? Thanks for the pointer to the youtube vids and the ebook.


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## djwong

I think all my planes greater than 42mm have cloased mouth dai's with tsutsumi. The way I setup my kanna's, the tsutsumi does not provide any additional support. I trim the tsutsumi so that when I have the blade extended, I can slip a piece of paper between the bevel and the tsutsumi. If you allow the blade's bevel to press on the tsutsumi, the tsutsumi may become a high spot on the bottom of your kanna. Generally, the entire area behind the blade is slightly relieved so it does not touch the surface you are planing. By allowing the tsutsumi to "bulge out", your kanna may not cut as well (or at all).

You can try leaving the tsutsumi so that it touches and supports the blade bevel, but does not extend so much that it becomes a high spot. The blade on a japanese plane is so thick, I don't think the additional suport is noticeable.


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## Timbo

Thanks for the hammer info, don't think I could spring for a high priced hammer. I have been using a shop made all wood hammer, it works but been thinking of coming up with an alternative, any thoughts on these from Woodcraft?


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## djwong

I like to use the "daruma" style hammer for chisels (375g), which is a squat barrel shape. You should checkout japanwoodworker.com - also owned by woodcraft.


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## Timbo

Thanks David, I will check it out


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## planeBill

Youre welcome for the information Tim. There are a few different sources for J hammers, they don't have to be the pricey ones. I just like them and appreciate them for the level of skill and dedication they represent on the part of the craftsman who made them. For a beater japanwoodworker/woodcraft has a good selection and a wide price range. Ebay also can offer some good finds, Ive bought several from there. Theres nothing wrong with a homemade wooden mallet either. Like David said, the short, squat daruma style are most comfortable when chisel work is the order of the day. Do try to get one with a handle that puts the point of impact more in line with your forearm, you will be surprised how comfortable it is and the control it gives.


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## kokomoron

I have a preference for western style tools. It is personal and carries no assumption other than what I like. I think the dozuki saw is quite a bit easier to use for a beginner than a western. dovetail saw. I think there is some hype about the quality of J tools. I think if you compare apples to apples it is a push. Had I started with Japanese tools 40 years ago, my opinion could be different.


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## planeBill

OK, so I have a question. Ever notice the difference in the, well I should say the contrast between, the hard and soft metals when you look at the bevel on a brand new J-chisel? The contrast I just so pronounced. The hard being very bright and the soft is just so very dark, at least they are on mine. 
It has come time to stop just setting them out and admiring them and set them up and start using them. So Ive set al of the hoops except for one which I can not seem to remove from the handle to compress the fibers, made blade sheaths for them all (actually made from doug fir which will match the Japanese toolbox I plan to make soon) so now it is time to fine tune the edges on them all and get them ready to work. The thing is, whenever I sharpen one (all Ive done so far) that beautiful contrasting rich tone disappears from the bevel and I cant seem to get it back. I am left with a too shiny bevel and Im wondering if there is anyone out there who knows what technique, stone, and/or procedure I should be using to maintain the appearance of the bevels that were sharpened by the smith? 
I know this is all unnecessary and the one I did sharpened is razor sharp, popping hairs all the way down my arm and will certainly perform any task I need it to but if I could sharpen them all like that AND have the bevels appear in such a way to show off and highlight the two metals I would be real happy with myself. The thing is, I need some help to do it.
Thanks


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## bobasaurus

Bill, are the chisels etched? Etching will show the contrasting steels, but grinding will make them look the same again.


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## planeBill

I don't know, I don't know what etching is. Please do tell.


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## djwong

Bill, the contrast disappears when you use a synthetic sharpening stone. A natural stone will restore the contrast. I believe it has something to do with the uniform and steady release of abrasive particles from man-made stones. This creates uniform scratches, which i turn reflect light uniformly. Natural stones will release non-uniform abrasives. In addition, the natural abrasives will break down as they roll around in the slurry, to different sized particles. You tend to get a cloudy finish on the steel instead of a mirror shine. You can get a mirror finish on a natural stone by continuing to polish as the slurry dries.

I use two natural stones in my sharpening routine - a blue Aoto (~4-5K), and an ohira stone I purchased used (originally from Hida tools). The ohira is my finish stone. You can spend hundreds and thousands on natural stones. There are a few specialty retailers you can find on the web. Look up "jnat".

I made a toolbox from Douglas fir as a project from Chris Hall's online course. Lookup "thecarpentryway.com" for more info. Douglas fir was difficult to work due to the differences between the early and late wood layers. Experienced some edge splitting and lots of un-intended dents because the surface is so soft. Beautiful wood however.


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## ColonelTravis

Bought a little Iwasaki half-round file for about $20. Have not used it properly but everyone has raved about them, so I figured what the hell. Getting ready to work on some poplar shelf supports with it, and I tested it on a board. Was surprised how much came off with one pass, hardly any effort at all. Seems to be a terrific investment.


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## ward63

If anyone is coming to Osaka Japan, I'd be happy show you the tool sellers district.
You can find complete sets or individual chisels. If you know maker names, so much the better,
if not then your like me….buy what I need at a price that I can afford. Sometimes you can haggle and get the price down  Recently I saw a nice 2 foot long ripsaw with old prices still tagged on just didn't have the cash to purchase, think I'll get it next week as I got some paulownia logs to rip up to smaller sizes and slice them on the bandsaw.
Tim, you have a beautiful set of chisels!!! I've seen sets like that with etching and flutes. $$$!


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## Timbo

+1 to what djwong said, I noticed the layers of Damascus steel re-appear when I use my black Arkansas stone.


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## planeBill

David, thanks for the tips about using J-nats. In fact if anyone has any good tips about using them, chime in. Im just getting into them. I started on, have and until recently, used synthetic stones but I recently bought an Okuda suita, a maruka suita and maruka kiita and while they are all hard, fine stones they all seem to almost instantly produce that black metal floating around on top of them. Theyre really quite amazing. I just do not kow how to properly use them yet. These are what I was using when sharpening my chisel last night. I actually got to the point where I could almost replicate the high contrast with them and am trying to get to where I can do it with the natural ones I don't really know what it was that I was actually doing with the synthetics to produce the almost desired effect. I need to invest in some different stones at the coarser end of the spectrum now. No, I didn't waste my money buying stones from 330mate.com either. The stones I bought are not full sized stones, they are actually pieces of full sized stones but more than big enough to sharpen any woodworking tool I need to sharpen so they were a great investment for me. 
Iwasaki chisels always tempted me. I almost bought one many times but never did, guess I should have. Theyre supposed to be like a float more than a file. What do you think Colonel?
Will using a 1200 diamond stone to make a slurry on my stones hurt them in any way? It also helps to flatten them and keep them flat. Using a nagura stone on such fine (grit) stones makes no sense to me because I doubt the nagura is as fine as the stones I bought. Advice??


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## djwong

Not all natural water stones need a nagura. Some will give up a slurry quickly on their own. You can also use the diamond stone to flatten and raise a slurry. I use a #400 diamond plate. I don't think you have to worry about using a white nagura on your finish stones. I do not think they are very abrasive. Their purpose is to clean up the surface, and to start a slurry so sharpening is a bit easier. The nagura is harder than the binder holding the abrasive particles in the stone, but not harder than the abrasives.


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## d_striker

I have a couple of Japanese hand saws that are among my favorite tools.


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## planeBill

striker, What type of saws are you using? Ive bought a couple of older saws recently t restore and am having fun. The thing is, The saws, once cleaned up, are turning out to be really good users so they may end up being used instead of being collected, as was my original intention.


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## planeBill

Thanks to all for the advice on using the stones. I have become quite comfortable using them and am achieving the desired results consistently. My bevels are looking very nicely done. The contrast I can achieve now looks exactly like the bevels that came directly from Mr. Koyamaichi. Learned a new skill with the help of the LJ crew.


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## PaulDoug

I have several Japanese saws, because I like them. Can't remember the producers, I'm sure they are not real top of the line, but they work well for me. One I bought when I visited Japan (probably has "Made in China" on it I haven't looked that close). My wife brought back all kinds of silly stuff, clothes, cloth, dishes, etc. I just brought back my little saw and wa proud as punch with it.


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## planeBill

My latest. Ive been after one of these for quite the while and got it for a really good price, its very very sharp, its a rip saw and its in very good condition. Ive not seen one with a handle like this though, not that I remember anyway.


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## alohafromberkeley

Man, that saw looks great.Looks heavy enough to handle (no pun intended) any wood. One of my relatives had one like it and used it to rip small logs. Also remember seeing one like it on the wall at Japan Woodworker (Woodline) in Alameda before they were closed by Woodcraft. Don't know what signature means but a good maker would never sign a so-so offering. Hida Tools in Berkeley may be able to give you a complete history on the saw.


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## Timbo

Oh man that is nice! It looks like something you could sharpen if needed too. How is the handle attached, pinned?


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## planeBill

AFB, isn't it a shame about JWW? Ive been watching closely and it seems they haven't degraded too much yet. They still offer a wide selection of nice tools and have even added new tools from some top smiths so I cant bash em too much yet. Cool that you saw a similar saw as mine hanging on the wall there. I wish someone could help with the writing on it and thanks for the tip about Hida, I think I will contact them about help with it. A fellow LJ is going to try to help with it as well.
Tim, thanks, it is a nice addition to my growing collection of J tools. I was really surprised at the price and the fact that it was a buy it now with a make offer option (yes, I found it on ebay), I didn't even try to haggle with the seller, just ponied up the asking price. I also bought another nice rip saw from them but it hasn't arrived yet, got it even cheaper.
I took this one to work and ripped a 2 1/2' thick yellow pine plank with it, its freakin sharp. I don't think it was ever used. It definitely doesn't need any tuning or file work, it arrived ready to work.
Its cool that you can see all the hammer blows in the tang, showing that it was all hand forged, or hammer forged if that's the proper term. Indeed, a very cool tool.
About the handle, its a curious thing. Its not pinned but just pressure fit, which I felt was weird. I half thought that it would pull straight off the tang when I started using it but it stayed put, solid as a rock. Its an odd and new arrangement to me but for its intended use, its actually pretty comfortable and natural to use.


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## alohafromberkeley

planeBill- Japan Woodworker still has it's own section of WoodCraft, but I was really hoping that another company would buy them and keep the store open in Alameda,CA. Cool thing about JWW was that you could try out any tool they had and they had hundreds. There used to be a work bench set up with chunks of Rosewood, Macassar Ebony and other exotics that you could try out the saws, files, planes and other edge tools. They were my favorite woodworking store (I used Hida for their amazing gardening tools- after drooling over their Japanese ww tools). I was in JWW one day and was interested in tools for small projects and was inquiring about tools for shaping ukulele necks and Ikebana arrangements. There was a older Japanese fellow off to one side listening to me talk to another clerk. The elder guy quietly approached me and said "Don't buy the demo rasps, tell him you want a new one from the back". I was lamenting the cost of the Lie Nielsen planes when he went over to the planes display wall and pointed out the Mujifang Rosewood planes and said " Get the high angle smoother- it works great on fret board woods and it's the same as the HNT gordon at 1/4 the cost and you can turn the blade around to change it into a scraper" The same guy also pointed out the Iwasaki Files and Shinto saw rasps. They worked great on the sample woods and I left with 3 great tools that in reality were 5 tools- Iwasaki File, Shinto Saw Rasp(coarse on one side / fine on the other side) and the double duty mujifang (smoother&scraper) and for less money than one HNT plane! I "lent" the plane to a friend until he can afford to get his own.Oh, planeBill, please let us know what info you get on the saw…it really looks like the personal saw of a journeyman carpenter.Sometimes the back story is better than the tool itself.


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## secharles

pretty wrench-centric, but interesting none-the-less: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97563


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## derekcohen

> I m on travel (well actually stuck in Atlanta airport) so not able to snap any pics. I did a quick search and found a similar set from google image; here what my set looks like (they did come in a nice wooden box)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the link for the saw(s) ... I first purchased the crosscut, about a year later I picked up the RIP. Looking next at purchasing a double sided saw.
> 
> http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=316_333_390&products_id=634
> 
> I like your saw storage.
> 
> Good luck with your purchases. These are expensive tools but will last generations with a little TLC
> 
> - Nicky


Those are my Koyamaichi 

I have possibly been using them longer than most, with some of them going back about 20 years. The smaller three were custom made by Mr Koyama for me. The larger three were made in the early 80s.

I have a set of Kiyohesi slicks (paring chisels), which are wonderful. I gather that there now is a 6 year waiting list (!) ..










The most durable chisel I have is a Fujikawa in PM HSS, which Stu at Tools from Japan sent me for a laugh once. It is amazing and the toughest steel I have ever come across. It goes forever. But it is not fun to sharpen!










Of course, when you have hooped chisels, you need a gennou. I use two, the heavier one at 325gm is for especially hardwoods, while I use the smaller 225gm for most tasks. These are Tenryu Tsuchime Shikaku …










I'll mention just one saw, an azebiki. This is very useful for stopped dados …










... and stopped rebates …










Lastly, the best cutting gauge of all - by Kinshiro (no longer available, sadly). The Kinshiro is a mortice gauge which may also be used with a single cutter. It is on the right. On the left is a single blade version I made ..



















Regards from Perth

Derek


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## waho6o9

I made my own azebiki saw and it worked.


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## builtinbkyn

I went all Japanese this morning. Had some tenons to cut on long box aprons and a pull saw was much easier to use for them.





































I love that paring chisel. I think I need to pick up one that's wider.


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## Lemwise

I have Sukemaru white steel #1 oire nomis. I happen to know Yoshio Usui (the blacksmith behind the Sukemaru brand) doesn't make these himself but has them made by another blacksmith. If you're familiar with Kiyotada, this blacksmith's cutting edges almost match Kiyotada but Sukemaru chisels are a third of the price. The steel is very hard (66-67HRC) but not brittle and quite tough. I love working with these gems.


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