# undervalued craft!



## JuniorJoiner (Dec 24, 2008)

I'm going on a bit of a rant here,

Why is it that masterful woodwork is so undervalued? Who can even make a living doing custom furniture without cutting corners? why is it like this?

As I near the end of my year of schooling in fine furniture, there has been much debate amongst classmates and alumni about making a living at the craft. The basic advice I see from everyone is to find a niche and exploit it. 
So. to find something you like making, set up to make it cheap and quick, and sell like the rent is due.

This , of course, goes against everything we have learned in school, which is to slow down, work precisely, and add lots of fine detail. As a matter of record, that is what attracted most of us to the craft and to the school.

But then we see things like, Brian Newell perhaps the best artisan at the craft, had a show of his work at putnam and eames a few years ago. and everything sold. I am talking about some fantastic stuff too.
He had sequestered himself away for a year to make those pieces, tons of time, material costs, as well as shop costs. the culmination of years of devotion, training and masterful work. grossed him about 90k.

comparatively, new paint on canvas, routinely sells for more than that. heck, I have seen driftwood screwed together with drywall screws and called a table sell for prices that people blush at when looking at actual fine work. why is it that something that has a function, is beautiful and one of a kind, and well made. has no value?

What is the cause of this? are consumers uninformed? is it because retired men tend to create woodwork for family for free? or is it because our craft is fun and cool, and painting isn't?

It is discouraging when you are looking at the setup costs for a new shop, working out what you have to sell things for , then realizing you still have to eat and live.

One of my classmates, Diasuke Tanaka( http://mockitupjp.blogspot.com/ ) is a third year student, makes amazing stuff, and puts his all into it.( there are dozens of photos of him sleeping at his bench).
He will be having a show in Toronto in June. I have really high hopes for his success, as his craftsmanship is tremendous.

I wonder what it would take for pieces to sell for a price which accurately reflects the time and skill put into making them, while still doing the best work you know how?

If anyone has any insights on this, I would love to read them. Or secrets of getting home designers stamp of approval to make pieces valuable. I would particularly love to hear success stories of people making a living at furniture without writing books or teaching.


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## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

I always felt the reason many wont spend the necessary dollars to buy a custom piece is because they can buy something similar at a furniture store that buys products that are mass produced and therefore can sell them at a reduced price. Although a piece that is built by a good craftsman as we all know, is much better, we also know that the piece at a local store looks about the same at a glance but it's hundreds or thousands of dollars less. I think unless we are dealing with people that understand the quality, and can afford it, its hard to expect the average Joe to spend the money. We live in a throw away society. I guess it equates to buying an original Rembrandt for millions, or just buying a print of the same picture for just a few bucks. If you arent a collector but just enjoy the picture, then what difference would it make?


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## Mogebier (Feb 4, 2010)

I think the answer is very easy, and not complicated at all.
Mass-market goods.
There ya go.
We now live in a disposable society. People want to buy cheap goods. They do not care if it's going to last for 100 years because their tastes change so much, they will want to buy something new in 10 years anyway. So, you might make a superior Dinner Table. It might be worth $3000 in time, effort, supplies and skill. But people will buy the $499 table from Ikea because it's cheaper and they know their kids will not want it because it will be out of style by then.
100 years ago it was different because you had to have an Artisan making things. Now you have a Robot making them for 1/100th the cost.
Automation isn't all bad and evil, though. Think how much a shirt would cost if the cloth came from a person who used a manual loom. WOAH!


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## FJDIII (Dec 20, 2007)

I believe that you have to hold on to not selling yourself short. If it is fine furniture that you want to make there are surely people willing to pay for it; always have been and always will be. Making a name for yourself and being able to break into that type of market is the challenge.


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## canadianchips (Mar 12, 2010)

We live in a IKEA world. I have seen people throw EVEYTHING in there house to RE-decorate with what is in style that day ! These people do not want pieces that last. They don't even want a house that lasts. Re-sell evey 5 years , realestate, make money.
Unfortunatly Artists go through same thing, no fame till they die ! A few have found niche market.
The people that make quilts---Same thing.
Just continue your passion, keep at it !


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

It is a disposable society. People do not understand what truely goes into a piece crafted by hand. Most are so trend driven that they don't really know what they like, they just buy what is popular now and then throw it away when the new fad emerges. REAL craftsmanship is timeless.

The worst part of all is that we have brought this upon ourselves. If you stand under the guise of quality, you must take it past the shop door. Demand well made goods in all parts of your life and quit supporting the cheaply made imported crap that has become the norm. Its easy to complain about woodwork because that is what we do, but if we surround ourselves with other goods, imported and cheaply made, then we become part of the problem we so often complain about.


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

That style thing is something that puzzles me. Remember when green shag carpet was all the rage? I even bought a '56 Chevy with that carpet in it (not why I bought it), many years ago. It went out of style, for say, Berber. People will toss the whole lot and put all new carpeting in their house. Crazy. Same with clothes- now THAT's a racket! Them wimminz (and a whole lot of men, for that matter), have to have the latest togs. We don't understand those people, most of us here. I made my own glasses case out of red oak and bubinga (for example; I have some in delicious Brazilan rosewood cases, too) after I got tired of buying velcro closure and spring closure cheapo cases at $5- $10 a pop, only to have them last 3 to 6 weeks. My wood spectacles case has lasted a year, even though I have dropped it many times (glued-up mitered corners) and still works fine. All you (or I for that matter) have to do is convince your customers- of which I have none- that this product will outlast their spectacles. But then, they'll buy the latest glasses with 4" diameter lenses, and get annoyed because the new ones don't fit the case. People are crazy.


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## sikrap (Mar 15, 2009)

Personally, I think its a combination of ignorance and economics. This is why Home Depot and Lowes thrive while small yards struggle. The vast majority of people out there have no clue as to how much work goes into a nice piece of furniture or how much it costs to make it. All they know is, its a table that look just like the one at (insert your local chain furniture store here) and it costs a lot more. I have a friend that needs/wants a small table so bad he's willing to ask me to make it for him. I explained that the least expensive way to go was MDF with a laminate. Once he saw that the MDF and laminate were going to cost about $40 and then the lumber for the base would be another $25, he got mad because he thought he'd only have to spend $20-$25 for materials. Now he's watching CL to see if he can find something that somebody else wants to get rid of.


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## DavidBethune (Feb 9, 2009)

Well I'm no craftsman but my wife's son from her first marriage is. He can sell his work no problem…BUT he has a very UPSCALE clientele for whom he contracts finish carpentry & also produces furniture pieces for. He's only in his 30's but his work is highly sought after. I guess the key is to get into the right niche of people, where money is no object.


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## skywalker01 (May 19, 2009)

Fine woodworking is an art form. Have you never heard the term poor, out of work artist? It is not very often that one makes a good living doing something they really really love in the art world. Sure a lot of us love our jobs but there are very few people out there to pay you to inlay ebony and ivory into a dresser drawers for their bedroom. I do think there is a middle road where you can make money and not do such elaborate work. It's fun to do all the fancy stuff but it sometimes does not put food on the table. I think everyone here has valid points but are missing the big picture. Sure you're going to get undercut. Sure the big companies are going to keep making crap. There are people out there that will buy well made furniture. They are just further and fewer between at the moment. Once you find them, make them happy if you want to keep them coming.


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## Eli (Mar 3, 2010)

I think there are a loft of misconceptions about this.

First, specializing is helpful. It's very hard to market yourself as a maker of anything. Also, there's the "jack of all trades, master of none" perception you have to deal with.

Second, setting up to produce a particular piece does not mean sacrificing quality. The shop I work in has jigged up all sorts of processes, but we still use mortices and tenons and dovetails, etc. Cutting corners is one of the worst ways to improve your business. Using machines appropriately increases productivity.

Third, people do undervalue our work, but keep in mind, those aren't your clients. Even if you can convince them your price is justified, that doesn't mean they'll pay it.

Fourth, a piece built by hand is not inherently better than a piece built by a machine. Machines have the advantage of being much faster in the long haul. We have the advantage of being able to do custom work cheaper than machines. A single carving is not worth reprogramming a factory. "I want this piece, but taller" is the hole we fill in the market. "I just can't find this anywhere."

Fifth, a lot of makers overvalue their work. Look at the market. What we do is not in high demand. Your work is only worth as much as someone will pay. Try to determine who your market is and find a way to get your work in front of them. Or, you can find a hole in the market, and make furniture to fill it. You can make a living doing extremely high end work, but you are chasing a very small market.

Regarding the driftwood and paintings, that's a little twist in the plot. Although many makers hate the term "artist," it can be very beneficial. Art is not judged on it's utility. It's a completely subjective pricing. If you make something that people fall in love with, are you going to tell them it's not worth that much?

Eli


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

Sikrap, you are right, up to the point where the guys in the "small yard" tell you there is "no picking" in the outside lumber. I bought some "select pine" boards at Big Orange this morning to make a couple of totes for my "boutique" woods that I use for small boxes I make, and tools. It was only $1 more a foot than MDF trim! You get my point- you can't cater to the Ikea crowd. They're all Philistines to the woodworking world.

kunk, I work at a six-figure job (if I put in enough overtime), and believe it or not, between the ****************************** in the armor of Corporate America, there is a place for the artist to make tools. One of my proudest moments is designing a custom tool for a special use. There is nothing like it in the rest of the world, but I'll be unlikely to patent it. Oh, well, I got a cheesy plaque and a small token of the company's appreciation for it.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

All of that, plus the middle class is shrinking; therefore, a smaller market. And, most businesses are very competitive.


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## JuniorJoiner (Dec 24, 2008)

I appreciate your Hiaku and your additions to the rant. I am somewhat calmer now than when I wrote it. it still bums me out that great skill or even mastery at parts of this craft is in no way a guarantee that you can make a living doing it.
despite my frustration and gloom, it in no way sways me from my path of bettering myself and learning and doing all I can with wood. I am just more realized that my toils may go unpraised and unrewarded for a long time.


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## LeeG (Feb 16, 2010)

I read an article quite some time ago and the theme was 'The New Royalty'. Basically it went like this. Back in the day of wealthy royalty and nobility, skilled craftsmen could spend months on a single item. There were people that were wealth enough to pay them basically a year's wages for a single unique item. Wages went up (along with the standard of living) and there were fewer people now with large, disposable incomes who are looking to impress other people with large, disposable incomes. This in conjunction with the introduction of mass production led to a decline in the high quality craftsman.

Today, however, there is a segment that fits the same economic description as the royalty of old, namely movie stars and professional athletes. I recall one specific person interviewed for this article that had learned how to weave very fine cotton with very intricate patterns. She made a scarf that took nearly a year. Madonna bought it for some large amount of money (I don't recall exactly bit it was a lot).

Moral to that story - find a target market for the stuff you want to produce and market it to them.


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## 308Gap (Mar 6, 2010)

quote " I wonder what it would take for pieces to sell for a price which accurately reflects the time and skill put into making them, while still doing the best work you know how? " most art goes up in value after the artist dies. As for your question, the furniture I think your talking about is out of reach for most people. You used the word "fine furniture" which means , I cant afford it. As a consumer I want the best value for my dollar. If I was rich then I would hire someone to make my dresser. But I shop at rc willey , since most things are real wood, but from over seas. If you could build my kitchen table and sell it for the same price I'd order one right now. Keep in mind I only drive american made cars, not just labeled that way, I buy american whenever it makes sense and I can find it. I'm still looking for american made plywood. If you can make a LIVING at what you love go for it and don't look back…......... Did you buy your car based on build quality? was it assembled here and the profits went back to japan?


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## LeeG (Feb 16, 2010)

Let me tell a story that doesn't seem related to the topic at hand, but if you bear with me, perhaps it will shed some light.

Back in the mid 90's, I started in business doing IT consulting and sales. Back then, computers were pretty new things to most businesses and very few people were savvy about the details of what they were buying or even that it was really necessary. After a few months of disappointment, I started a new approach. When I'd go out to visit a potential customer, I'd plan on spending some time educating them on what it was I was trying to sell them. To someone who knows little about computers, they were all pretty much the same. After I had spent some time educating them on some of the finer points, I'd leave them with three different configurations and let them choose one of the three. It made a huge difference.

How does this relate to woodworking? Most people want something that looks nice and is functional. They really don't know any of the details. You need to not only make them understand the differences, but make them excited that they are getting something far better than what almost everyone else has. People want to be able to brag on what they have. You need to give them the reasons to do so.


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## 308Gap (Mar 6, 2010)

PS.. I still appreciate quality furniture but I will probably never be able to afford it. Since I just started woodwoking as a hobby I can appreciate the skill envolved in solid pieces. My rifle cost more than my truck and it was worth it due to the craftsmanship that went into it, which I cherish. My cheapo hand drill cost 35.00 and will be replaced without concern. Its all personnel value's …..maybe.


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## oldworld124 (Mar 2, 2008)

I only will build a piece if the client is willing to pay the price. Otherwise, I prefer to go fishing.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Junior, when I was a teenager, I taught myself to tool lather. Made holsters & gun belts like the cowboys on TV, made purses and billfolds, wanted to make a saddle some day and maybe even be a saddle maker and run a ranch. Common sense took over, my dad said to get an education or learn a trade and then come back if you want to, but by then you'll know better. He was right, I retired to good money and a 40 hour week at age 19. People ask how I retired at age 19? They do not comprehend when I tell them I worked 16 hour days 6 days a week and 8 on Sundays when I graduated from high school on the farm. That is why I say I retired. I knew I'd never make a good living doing hand crafts, being a saddle maker or ranching starting out with nothing. Most of the kids I went to high school with that tried farming failed. That's just the way it is.

Lee makes a good point about educating the customer. I have been told a thousand times I am the only electrician the ever explained things so a lay person could understand. They usually follow my recommendations even if it's not the cheapest price.


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## jockmike2 (Oct 10, 2006)

I still believe there is a market for quality out there, there are people willing to pay a good price for a nice piece of work. You have to be willing to wait. Scrub toilets if you have to but if you believe in yourself never give up. You will find your market eventually. That's my opinion, but like rear ends, everyone has one. I like your work.


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## Orion (Dec 9, 2009)

There is a market for quality. Always has, always will be. The styles change, but there are always people who are willing and able to pay for the best.

The skills needed to make great pieces of furniture (cabinetry, etc, etc) are not the same as the skills needed to sell and market it. It is a rare person who has both. From what I see: If you can do both-do it. Once you make a name for yourself it will come together somewhat. If you can't do both, hook up with someone who can do the other-sell or make-and go to it. Woodworking is not an easy business to make a living in. There is a dollar amount on every minute of your time and this is in perpetual conflict with the art side of it. You must figure out what is earning you a profit and do more of it. Good luck with your endeavors.


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## Wintersedge (Apr 5, 2010)

This is always a hard topic to discuss. You can start with the standard triangle of quality, time, cost and you only get two. It is an old cliche, but in many circles it rings true. There are those that do high quality work, demand a premium, and have people waiting to pay it.. think apple. And I would not knock Ikea.. I think the average consumer who shops Ikea does so because it fills the niche, not so much because they want cheap junk. I am sure if they had 1-20k to buy custom furniture, they would. You buy what you can afford or what you want to afford. We all buy mass market.. no one buys a hand assembled car unless you are driving a rolls or a bugatti. Now, I am not trying to knock anyone or their beliefs.. I just think we sometimes get a little biased and miss the overall big picture. At the end of the day, people buy things for many different reasons.

If you want to do only high quality work and not give in to mass market, you can, you just have to be ready for the consequences. Unless you have a ready market or have connections.. you may end up making work for a few years that does not sell. You can get a 9-5 or some part time gig and keep working your dream. You will make it, it will just take time. The same triangle applies, you can have wealth, free time, and pursue what you want. It is very rare you are going to have all 3 immediately. but if you are willing to sacrifice one, you can line up all three down the road.

If you want to build a business empire rapidly, aka the amazon method, then you will have to sacrifice something.. some say you may have to sell your soul, I say that is just part of business. Do you want to build a company so that others can work for you and you can give them an opportunity to provide for their family and help them realize and achieve their dream? Not such a bad trade off when you think about what you may sacrifice for someone elses gain.

Btw, the top method is often referred to as the Ben and Jerry method. Slow start, word of mouth, built by quality and reputation.

In the end, you have to do what is right for you and figure out how to make it work with the tools and opportunities you have.

I'll quickly give you my story.. I am IT geek working for a Fortune 500, ok pay, long hours, but I have free time to work from home and post on Lumberjocks during the day. I spent a few years working on my glass business. Now I am spending time learning wood. My goal is get into residential development and high end rental property. When I did glass work I never sold inexpensive glass work, no sun catchers, bowls or things I consider part of the gift market. I did large shower doors, glass stairs, counter tops.. I found clients that were willing to pay big bucks. The first year I sold 0 pieces. the next year, 2. In my third year, I broke even(ie my material costs equaled my gross sales). My fourth year I made good cash. Enought to buy a home, but I did all this while still working full time. I slept 3-4 hours a day at most. I sacrificed time with friends and family. For me, it was worth it, I finished a goal on my list, I did not comprise who I am as a craftsman(never an artist, that is a whole different long post), I learned a lot, found new and different friends, and made some money in the process(mind you I am not living large, but am living debt free). The sacrifices were pretty big.. not sleep caused some health issues, not sure what social costs I had, and I find higher end clients are very picky and not the picky where they know exactly what they want. The picky where I have money and want this to change and have the artist install it.. things I did not bend to and lost sales, but again, I did what I wanted and felt was best irrelevant of the costs.

I hope all this rambling helps put you on the right path.. I follow my philosophy for rich or for poor: "It must be useful, it must work dependably, it must be beautiful, it must last, it must be the best of it's kind". -Alfred Dunhill


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## NewPickeringWdWrkr (Feb 24, 2010)

Canadianchips has it right. We live in an IKEA/Walmart world where the bottom line is not how long will it last, but rather how cheaply can I buy it for so that I can buy more stuff? It's capatalism at its finest and most small businesses suffer for it.

I normally don't shop at walmart, but decided to take a look when I saw how expensive diapers and formula costs. I actually found no difference in price comparing namebrands with their like to other stores, but then there's a lot of "made in China" stuff beyond that which goes for less than dirt cheap and the quality - or lack thereof - shows. And yet people continue to buy it! And they'll buy it again 1 or 2 years later when it breaks or wears out. Lather, rinse repeat … and before you know it, they've spent more than what it would cost to buy a quality piece that would last for generations. I've been guilty of it too when it has come to some of my shop tools and I'm regretting it. I've since aquired 2 Veritas planes and a partial set of chisels and I have a feeling that I'll be passing them onto my daughter one day. Everything else I've bought will most likely have been replaced by then.

My advice doesn't tell you how to make a living at woodworking, but has applied to my history running a custom computer business out of my home. I built with the best components and stood behind my work. If someone pointed out that they could get something similar for cheaper, I explained to them that they were welcome to take that deal and maybe I would see them in a few months when their computer started acting up due to cheaper component use, but I would not compromise the quality with substandard components. Some deals fell through and some took my advice. The ones that took my advice were very happy and had no problems referring me to friends/family/etc. The ones that didn't … well, about 1/3 of the came back to me for repairs when their warranty ran out . I have since given up that business as it became so cut throat that there was no money to be made (another example of the ikea/walmart paradigm).

I guess my point is that if you find customers that are willing to pay the price, and they are happy with your work/product, the word will spread. Providing you have all your other business ducks in a row!


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## Gregn (Mar 26, 2010)

Its sad to say that the general public has only its sights on price, and going into business will require finding those who find price not an issue, but quality being the issue. I myself sell very little and don't try to make things for sale for this very reason. I enjoy woodworking for its own rewards and benefits. I commend those who do make a living at woodworking. They know how hard it is to find that niche to make it profitable. I sometimes wonder how bored they get making things for others and not making what they would like sometimes. Then again that is a whole other topic in its self.


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## Dez (Mar 28, 2007)

It has an awful lot to do with the "I want it NOW" attitude! Very few people are willing to pay for the time it takes to make a quality piece.
Look at ancient structures. An entire lifetime in some cases to build a home for someone. Not any more, they just cannot see the value.


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## parnoldo (Jun 15, 2009)

I think finding a particular style that's your own and filling a particular niche that it fits in is the key to success in any artistic endeavor. Anything you do that your everyday hobbyist or amateur thinks they can do as well is going to be difficult to get a valuable return on.

I'm an advertising photographer by trade. I started before digital existed; when photography was chemistry and alchemy and mystery to your average Joe. Professional photography had much value. Now I compete for commissioned work with micro stock agencies and the like that are populated with digital images taken by housewives and college students and sell for pennies.

And too many potential clients think that because they have a mega-megapixel camera that they can take pictures as well as someone who has been trained to work with light and composition (the real stuff of photography) for many years. It's like this-I could have Norm's shop and all his tools, but could I build stuff like he does? No way, not with my training and experience; and that makes Norm's work more valuable than mine. The way I continue to make a living making photographs is to make very special ones for very special usage that the kid next door can't do with his camera phone. I have to use my talent and experience to create value for my work.

Simply put, any time an art form or specialized skill becomes a commodity it loses value.


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## CampD (Nov 8, 2008)

I tell everyone I'm a cabinet maker, but do remodeling to pay the bills. Even now in this market thats becoming harder to do. If i get 2 custom jobs a year I'm happy.


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## JuniorJoiner (Dec 24, 2008)

I appreciate everyone's comments on this rant of mine. it seems many points of view help clear the picture.
I particularly appreciate wintersedge story. I consider it a success story. something for me to come back to.

I have decided that after I finish school next month, I will try focusing on chairmaking for the foreseeable future.
my reasoning is, chairmaking is fun. does not require large capacity machines or large shop space for assembly. and, because chairs are functional items, so my workmanship will be touched and appreciated. not just looked at.
I am working on a design now. wish me luck.


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

I think it is as my grand father used to say, "You can buy oats for two prices, one when thay come out of the mill and a much cheaper price when they come out of the mule." IKEA and their ilk are the mule.

Then you factor in what the Banksters have done to the worlds economy…...Our world is so topsy turvy that is a wonder any of us can even afford to have this hobby let alone make a living building quality articles.


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## Gofor (Jan 12, 2008)

A sad conundrum. But its all economics.

Let's face it: Most of us got into woodworking because:

1. We thought we could make it cheaper, or

2. When we realized our error, we thought we could make it better quality for what "quality" stuff cost.

Problem with this is that only those that have been the route realize what "quality" is, and can appreciate it. Of those, most can make well enough to make do (better than Ikea and less expensive than artisan), but also have a vested interest (lots of tool money) in now doing it themselves. Few of us can afford artisan prices, or we would have never started making it ourselves.

So, that leaves a market of those that can't do, probably don't know how, and have a lot of money. To get them to buy you have to have a "name". The "Name" comes from selling to someone who can afford it, who relays that to their friends, etc (word of mouth), but that is iffy and the rich do have fads. Some are lucky enough to have met someone who really appreciates their work, has influence, and they become a "name" among the well-to-do. Over the years they become Icons and continue to do well. Their talent and quality is finally recognized and becomes a byword as such.

Others, not to say they are not as talented, also go the route of exposure, with TV shows, etc. You don't really think David Marks is on TV because he wants to be, do you? Maybe, I do not know him, but TV exposure sure has not hurt him, and the tools and materials he has available don't fall out of the sky. Takes money to make it and it sure helps to have a sponsor. Norm Abram uses wood that I drool over, not to mention his machines, and he is just making "copies" of museum pieces.

Bottom line, the price is what the market will bear. Talent is what it is, but unless it becomes known, it is only worth today what the local market will pay. Some pro football players make $50k, some make $5 mil. Woodworkers are no exception, except you are facing the competition (TV DIY shows, Borg advertisements, etc) that tell people they can do it themselves for pennies.

Like artists, You have to have a well-heeled sponsor to make the big time while you are still alive. Ugly fact: Yes. Reality: Yes. Life ain't fair. The majority of the world does not care if a table is pretty; they just appreciate the fact that it holds their food higher than the dog can steal it from them before they eat it.

JMTCW

Go


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## sawblade1 (Feb 11, 2010)

I believe that education is the key to overcoming the Quality versus price issue if we educate the customer about our work then they are more informed and better consumers than before 
A lot of woodworkers make the mistake of advertising custom cabinets instead of hand made cabinetry 
Big Box stores and private lumber yards label and offer custom cabinets from a large distributor or manufacturer which offer no nostalgic or resale value to the consumer, however this s a war that could be won by educating the consumer and offering to build just the cabinets for the DIY'ers this saves money for both parties involved. 
selling my outdoor furniture is the same way as my cabinets educate the potential buyer of why my products beat or exceed the big box stores low price and why it makes better sense to buy better quality items. 
And one last thing to think about is buying cheap or expensive imports is what got us into this economic mess we got ourselves into.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

It's abit like the music industry.You need to become known in the circle of people who like quality.Unfortuantely places like Ikea are jigged up to make tens of thousands of the same thing.this has to be able to be made without any skill involved just common sense.You have to make that thing and if it needs jigs then you have to make them and it will probably need solid timber whereas Ikea use plastic and hardboard /cardboard crap.Your skill has taken many years of low wages to learn.Your work will be worth a thousand times what the customer paid for it in 300 years Ikea will be worth nothing in 3 years there you have it you need to become known to people who understand quality and it's costs not the little lady next door who wants you to make her a set of chairs and a dining table for $99.00 when the timber would cost you maybe eight to ten times that alone." cents from Alistair


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

Mogebier has a good point. Our society is geared to inexpensive stuff (OK, read that as cheap). Disposable items as VCRs, DVD players, microwaves etc. are the norm. It costs more to have things repaired that it is to just replace them. People don't look at long-term value.


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## closetguy (Sep 29, 2007)

So who told you operating a business was going to be easy? It sounds like you have the skill and desire to create high-end products. You just need to put woodworking off to the side for a while and work on a marketing and sales plan. It's not about woodworking. That's the easy part. It's all about finding customers and selling your products to them.

The most important thing is to identify your customer. I can tell you right now that your customer does not shop at IKEA, Wal-Mart, or Rooms-To-Go. Blaming them for a lack of success is ridiculous argument. I don't think you will find one piece of furniture from IKEA in any house in the Hamptons, NY. Middle class people (like me) impress their friends with a big flat screen TV and a large cooler of cold beer. High class folks hide their flat screen TV inside a motorized, custom built side board. Their friends are impressed by the quality of the furniture and how it is arranged in the room. They love to talk about each piece, especially if it was commissioned.

To help achieve your goals, study the habits of the ones who came before you. Where do you think Maloof, Stickley, Krenov, John Fry, etc. would be if they had been out selling their creations at country craft fairs? Ok, so they are great craftsmen, but there are a lot of great craftsmen in the world. Why are some successful and others are not? I think you will find that the successful ones are good businessmen and understand how and where to market their work. Sometimes a lucky break will come your way, but more often than not, you have to make it happen yourself. Read the bios and learn how they got their start (and breaks). I don't build high-end furniture, but my biggest jobs and most consistent work has always come through interior designers. Many high-end customers will not make a move without their interior designer advising them on what to buy and how to display it in their home. If they tell their customer to buy your piece, it's a done deal.

You will also find that developing clientele and a following in the high-end market could take years to nurture before it becomes a viable business. Many don't have the patience or funds to survive long-term. This may necessitate a part or full time job while continuing to develop your designs, contacts, and a customer base. Some successful woodworkers teach their craft in workshop classes and build commission pieces on the side. It's all about whatever works to pay the bills. You may want to explore a co-op shop with fellow classmates to share expenses and tools.

It's easy to get frustrated in today's economy. Three years ago when I gave my customers a price, they only asked "Who do I make the check out to?". Today, they say "We'll think about it and get back to you", or "We are going to get some other quotes". It just comes down to having the patience and commitment for the long haul. Frustration is a normal occurrence in this business, but perseverance will pay off in the long run.

As a side note, your chest of drawers is beautiful. However, I want to point out an observation. Why would you spend weeks or months creating a masterpiece like this, and then post an out of focused and poorly lit picture for the world to see? Your attention to detail does not end with the final, hand-rubbed finish. All representations of your work should reflect the same quality as the work. Never, ever, allow a picture out for the world to see that doesn't fully represent the quality of the piece. If you don't have the photo equipment or skills, find someone who does. Sometimes a bottle of Jack Daniels will get it shot for free by a pro (It's a southern thing). Presentation or lack thereof, reflects on you and your work. Yes, this is just a woodworking forum, but you never know when an interior designer may be passing by because your picture was indexed in Google. Good luck!


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## teenagewoodworker (Jan 31, 2008)

I find that you just have to be able to provide good quality for as cheap as possible. I prefer to hand cut dovetails but right now I am getting ready to make a bed with 12 drawers and I can tell you the Leigh will be coming out again. It's just not economical for me to hand cut the dovetails for 12 drawers on something like a bed. also lots of people appreciate quality but also appreciate price. most of those people would say a dovetail is a dovetail. it doesn't matter to them if it's hand cut or jig cut. More or less I think you need to both be able to produce fine furniture as well as sometimes have the means to just blast something out that is of great quality but without the whole super hand made thing. As long as you produce a good product and can do it through both methods… high end by hand and just plain good quality by machines. really what you have over any big production is the quality control aspect. you know how to do it and how to get a good product you just need to be able to do it in any way that it is needed.


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## teenagewoodworker (Jan 31, 2008)

also remember the power of the warranty. how many times have you bought a tool over another because it has a longer warranty. the lifetime warranty is what pretty much sold the bed I'm supposed to be making. of course that does have a lot of small writing like no jumping on the bed and since it is pretty complex if you move it call me to do it. but still that whole idea is something that people love.


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## Wintersedge (Apr 5, 2010)

Clostset guy has a lot of good information. You need to get to know your client/audience and you have to run in their cirlces. A lof of the places I did high end glass work will also work for wood. You should plan on attending and just talk to people at the some or all of the following:
SOFA http://www.sofaexpo.com/
ACC http://www.craftcouncil.org/
BMAC http://www.buyersmarketofamericancraft.com/

I listed them in order of relevance. Closetguy is 100% correct about the interior decorator.

Have a portfolio ready, include a variety of pieces that show showcases your skill
Have a website! that should really be number 1.
Have business cards..

A few ideas you can try is "giving your work" away. I started out giving away glass pieces at raffles. Go for places that are black tie affairs. 
Enter art shows, always make sure it is a show that will match your clients. 
Go to tour of home shows, take business cards with you. Talk to the builders and offer and offer to do a piece for them.
If you have a craft council in your area, go and survey, it may be worth your while to join.

What you want are all the avenues that are going to put you in touch with your buyer or your buyer's agent. You also have to work just as hard not to end up with people who will devalue your work.


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