# Dust Collector setup and venting outside



## IWFabrication (Oct 1, 2019)

My shop is indoors and with limited space. I am looking to wall mount my collector towards the ceiling on the wall. The setups ive seen show the blower connected to the original bag holder (big circle thing) with a cyclone or similar bin under, and a vent tube outside. Any reason I cant just run my intake tube to my blower, and the exit tube straight outside and bypass the cyclone or other bin underneath all together?

My plan would be to mount the blower vertical so the intake and exit are horizontal, the exit tube would take a 90 degree turn outside, 90 degree or 45 for better transition vertically, and then another curve at 45 or 90 into a receptacle. Its a bigger 3 phase blower, so my only concern is the 4-6ft vertical jump to go above the receptacle. Overall about 20ft of tubing before the blower, and another 8-10ft from blower to the receptacle.


----------



## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

If you hear or cool the shop, it will remove the conditioned air and cost you $$$. You will need some kind of filter or screen to keep the chips and dust in the bin. Did you say 3 phase blower? Is this a home shop?


----------



## BattleRidge (Oct 22, 2017)

My first concern is in regard to where you are located. If venting a DC to the exterior of the building, you will in effect be moving a LOT of climate controlled air from your shop to the outdoors which will require a lot of replacement air to your shop. This can be a quite negative thing if you are in a cold-weather climate and the cost of heating your shop will undoubtedly increase. Additionally, if you are using natural gas, propane or similar heating appliances (or a gas water heater), the negative pressure you are creating in the shop can easily reverse the flow of exhaust from these appliances with the potential of filling the shop with carbon monoxide or other nasty things.


----------



## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

I also should have added the possible issue with CO being pulled into the shop. Best to keep filtered exhaust in the shop.


----------



## HuckleberryWoodWrks (Jan 14, 2020)

I will add to others about heating and cooling. I initially did this until I realized it took approx 10 min for the shop to heat back up to 80° in the summer. Relatively decent temp to sweat box within a few min, no thanks!


----------



## fivecodys (Dec 2, 2013)

Sure you can. I do.

I work in my garage/shop and it is not heated or cooled and has roof vents and vents right above the slab so I don't have to worry about replacing 'expensive' air.  
(If your shop is insulated and climate controlled then this may not be a good solution for you.)

I use the Oneida SDD and it does such a good job that I have no visible dust exiting the vent.

Here is the path it takes:









I use a 6" Dryer vent that blows right into our flower bed.

I have changed from HVAC ducting I was using for the exhaust to a flexible insulated ducting and it really reduced the noise coming out of the vent. (sorry no picture of that) It was pretty loud but it just sounds like a dryer running now.










I guess this really depends on your situation.


----------



## IWFabrication (Oct 1, 2019)

It is a home shop. Im using an inverter to covert from single to three phase. Is there an issue with this im unaware of?

My concern with the setup, is whether there are issues with blowing material vertically up and out, as well as the orientation of the inlet outlet. Looking at my blower, it appears the inlet would be facing upwards, so my dust collecting tubes would travel horizontally along the wall/ceiling and dump into the blower. Then the exit is horizontal which would then have about 3ft before going vertical to the bin outside. So motor on bottom, shaft vertical. Like fivecodys above, except motor on bottom, and if I dont have to, dont want to used a cyclone or bin between the outlet and my bin outside.


----------



## Bob5103 (Feb 13, 2016)

I am not sure I completely understand the blower orientation, but there shouldn't be a problem. If you have your collection outside can you just build a box to the put the whole unit outside? Protected from the weather that would work well. I exhaust outside and don't notice a great difference in the heat/air exchange, but my shop is a standalone building.


----------



## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm also not as clear on what you are asking. If the question is about the elbows and the turns they take, your good to go. But discharging all that stuff directly into a bin has me puzzled. There needs to be a way for the air to escape, otherwise no air flow. If you just stick the discharge down (not connected to the bin) and expect the dust/chips to stay in the can I suspect your in for a big surprise. It will almost certainly be blown all over the place. I've seen large shops with setups that didn't use a bin and they lat the heavy stuff pile up, the fines get carried away in the wind. That's not all that practical in a neighborhood. Then you still have to have the pile scooped up and removed after some time.


----------



## IWFabrication (Oct 1, 2019)

Yes there will be vent/filter for air to escape from the outdoor bin. Blower will be mounted inside.

as for orientation, take a look at the blowers above. intake through the center, discharge through the side, motors above or on top of the unit. What if the motor is on bottom, my dust collecting tubes from my tools empty down into the blower (cause the opening is on top, motor on bottom, no cyclone setup).


----------



## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I still don't think that will make a difference (motor on bottom).


----------



## them700project (Aug 12, 2015)

I have clearvue that changes the air in my garage almost instantly. My shop is untempered space. I still like the cleaner air. If I were to have conditioned space I would not run it until I was done with big machines. My sanders are on small hepa with dust deputy. Im in nj we dont get super cold but 10-30 degrees is common in the winter. I can run propane heater for an hour to heat the concrete and objects in the space, then I run dc while running tools then I can fire it back up after dc turns off. It doesnt get super cold if the objects were warmed prior. Another thing you could do would be to run an IR heater, the air doesnt get warm in the space till after the objects so the space still feels good.

As far as cooling goes. the movement feels good while its running. but once its off and new air is in the space it does get warm. If I were in there 40+ a week I would do a heat pump and they can cool pretty quickly.


----------



## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

A heat pump is just like any air conditioner in that if it cools quickly, it is oversized and will not remove the humidity. Then it feels cold and damp. The summer humidity in Illinois makes a properly sized air conditioner important.


----------



## them700project (Aug 12, 2015)

> A heat pump is just like any air conditioner in that if it cools quickly, it is oversized and will not remove the humidity. Then it feels cold and damp. The summer humidity in Illinois makes a properly sized air conditioner important.
> 
> - ibewjon


For a garage space a dehumidifier in conjunction with a split would be ideal. The AC unit removes humidity as a biproduct of cooling. It doesnt care if humidity is left in the space. a humidifier works of a humidistat and will remove until the level is met.


----------



## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

That is correct, BUT, the heat is discharged from the dehumidifier back into the shop, and the AC must run more to remove that heat. A properly sized ac will remove the humidity and discharge the heat outside. I have a mini split in my shop, and am very happy with the results. And the heat pump efficiently heats the shop most winters. It works down to -10 F.


----------



## IWFabrication (Oct 1, 2019)

So if it doesnt matter that the motor is on the bottom with shaft facing up thats great.

As far as the heating/cooling and humidity, I am in Michigan, so 10 degrees is usually as cold as it gets outside occasionally colder, but generally winters are around 20-30 (at least this year). I run a dehumidifier in the summer months to keep humidity down. My shop is in the basement/underground of a building. AC and Heat upstairs - though the furnace is on my level. No heat or AC in my shop space.

The furnace is however walled off/ has a door in a separate room. so picture a rectangle with the long length going left to right. upper Left corner is furnace room. On the right upper corner is another room for paint and has a blower to blow out fumes but is open allowing air in/out when fan isnt blowing out. Bottom right corner is another room for metal and has a similar blower setup to remove welding fumes/small metal dust particles.

So decent good air is able to come in from the right side of the shop space. Your concerns with gases being pulled from the furnace (natural gas through utility company)...my dust collector system will only be run when I am using my table saw, miter, jointer, planer. For sanding I used a shop vac. Dust collector would run longest at about an hour when Im using my router sled for bigger slabs. I dont see how with a single tube opened (other gates of the system closed) at the machine im using would cause suction of gases 15-20+ ft away with walls separating. Though I dont know the physics of it all so I could be incorrect.

One other question I had about my blower motor. Its older, plate says 3380 RPM/60hz. Im assuming 3380 is the max I should run it. My VFD I use to convert my 1 phase to 3 phase runs at 50hz. So the display shows in frequency not RPM. By my calculations of 50hz (actual) /60hz (potential) = RPM/3380 > 0.833×3380 = 2816RPM is the max I can run my blower at the VFDs max 50hz. Is there an issue with running my blower at a slower RPM? even at 20-25hz on the VFD its working pretty well. Has a 8" opening I believe. I know if I reduce from the 8" at the blower to say 6" or even 4" my CFM is cut drastically as only so much air can be sucked through at once. Almost seems counter intuitive though, as the suction would be greater at the open 4-6", unless theres a point at which reducing hurts CFM and a point at which increasing also hurts if the RPM/Suction cant keep up.


----------



## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

If your furnace has PVC pipe exhaust and intake, no problem. But, if there is no air intake, and your house is well sealed, yes you will suck CO down the chimney from 20 or many more feet away. Years ago, I came home to a CO. Alarm going off. To make the story short, the attic vents were plugged with cottonwood fuzz. The attic fan needed air. It was in the second floor attic. It pulled air, along with the CO,. down the chimney, through the basement and 1st and 2nd floor and out through the fan. A total distance of close to 80 feet. Without the CO detectors, my wife, 3 children and I would have been dead. The attic vents are now cleaned every spring and fall.


----------



## clagwell (Dec 20, 2018)

> One other question I had about my blower motor. Its older, plate says 3380 RPM/60hz. Im assuming 3380 is the max I should run it. My VFD I use to convert my 1 phase to 3 phase runs at 50hz. So the display shows in frequency not RPM. By my calculations of 50hz (actual) /60hz (potential) = RPM/3380 > 0.833×3380 = 2816RPM is the max I can run my blower at the VFDs max 50hz. Is there an issue with running my blower at a slower RPM? even at 20-25hz on the VFD its working pretty well. Has a 8" opening I believe. I know if I reduce from the 8" at the blower to say 6" or even 4" my CFM is cut drastically as only so much air can be sucked through at once. Almost seems counter intuitive though, as the suction would be greater at the open 4-6", unless theres a point at which reducing hurts CFM and a point at which increasing also hurts if the RPM/Suction cant keep up.
> - IWFabrication


First, a question for you: Why is your VFD set for a maximum of 50HZ?

Fan HP varies with the cube of RPM so at 50Hz it will draw about 58% of it's 60Hz HP.

Pressure varies with the square of RPM so static pressure at 50Hz will be about 70% of that at 60Hz.

Similarly CFM varies directly with RPM so 50Hz gives you about 83% of what you get with 60Hz.

Don't get too concerned with the size of the inlet and outlet of the blower housing. More important is the diameter of the impeller combined with it's RPM and how that matches up with you duct size. It's the pressure that moves air. The amount of air moved by a given pressure depends mostly upon the ducting and entrance hoods.


----------



## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I was wondering the same thing about the 50 Hz.


----------



## them700project (Aug 12, 2015)

For venting dust collector in basement. I wouldnt do this without a louver cut in for makeup. You can use a dryer vent. for a garage make sure your connecting door is well sealed. You may feel like the air is not moving 20' away but if you are extracting the air has to come from somewhere.


----------



## IWFabrication (Oct 1, 2019)

Thats just what my VFD maxes at. Ill likely run 7" heat duct for my exit to match, and 8" from my blower intake to match, for the main trunk. Then run 4" off the main trunk to various machines/areas, unless someone sees an issue with this.

them700project - please elaborate as I dont think im quite understanding your suggestion. Yes, air has to come from somewhere - figured it would come from the two vents I have for the blowers in the paint and metal areas. Im assuming you mean a louver for makeup as in to make up the air being sucked out. As for my connecting, door, are you referring to the door at the furnace room? If so I can make sure to do so.


----------



## IWFabrication (Oct 1, 2019)

On second thought I think Ill mount everything outside. Much simpler that way. Advice, links, pics for the easiest way to store everything, keep size down, and still allow for a decently easy method of removing wood shavings is welcome. We get snow here so keep that in mind.

I was thinking of using a pallet or two as a base. Simple plywood box construction. Due to the blower connecting at basement ceiling height, itll be ground level outside. So either mount it at the top of the box to dump shavings below it, or mount it ground height, compartmentalize it, and run an exit pipe another 5-6ft up to the top of the box. I got a bit of time before finishing everything so no rush, but would like to get it going before winter really hits us.


----------

