# What is better selling a variety or just one thing?



## nate22 (Jul 12, 2010)

I was just curious on with some of you guys that have a business of your own what seems to do better. Selling a variety of things or specializing in one kind of furniture like bedroom or livingroom or making a little of everything. And do you seem to get more people looking at your furniture if you offer more than one thing.
Thanks for any comments. Just was curious I am thinking about start making bookshelfs and some other things.


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## Maggiepic (Aug 26, 2010)

I believe in being diversified. The more options that are available to you and your potential clients the more opportunities are possible. Don't be afraid to get into more design items. That way if a past client wants something else built by you, you can accommodate their needs.


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## boyd8 (Aug 23, 2009)

For me a variety is very important, when I don't have a specific product to make it keeps me busy I create something that will sell sooner than later, these items are usually little but keep income coming in. Production is vital to cash flow same as in a kitchen. A good example is a spoon I make, a 4/4 piece of wood makes 2 and out of a 8 foot board 26 are produced and sold at $15 a piece for gross sales of $390 out of one board. Average production time is about 10 minutes per spoon and at the bazaars this following Christmas they sold very well. It also is a price point and I read a article about the American mindset that if it is below $20 they will buy it. The article was about drill bits the big collections of bits that sell for $19.99 yet only the 4 most popular bits were real, the others being pot metal stained to look the same. As a businessman I want as much of the buyers money as I can get and as a woodworker I want to make the best products that I can,


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## Eric_S (Aug 26, 2009)

While I dont sell anything, I would think offering a variety of things would attract a wider audience. Someone might go looking for a sofa and say "oh look honey they make beds too, you know how we need a new one, lets keep this guy in mind for it" or something like that.


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## 1978 (Jul 8, 2008)

When I am selling my things I make, I try to offer a wide variety of things (granted I don't make big things like furniture, I am a chip carver). One thing I have noticed that there is aways one item that is "the hit" at the shows I set up at. And it doesn't matter how much of one thing I make, it's never enough.


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## woodspark (May 8, 2010)

Variety is the spice of life! And the only way for me to make a living at this game… I am totally flexible and it varies from commission work to spec work, craft items in multiples to sculpture and art furniture on consignment…. MDF, Melamine, Exotic woods, Pine, Timber I mill myself… Whatever it takes, as long as it's WOOD !


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## Puzzleman (May 4, 2010)

Think of it like fishing. If you have only one hook in the water you have a less chance of catching fish than if you had ten.

I currently make over 40 different items. You never know what will appeal to the next potential customer.


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## Salt (Jan 13, 2011)

Hi Nate,
When I first started as a custom woodworker I'd build anything a designer/decorator/customer wanted. Doing that I sharpened my skills, got to sample different techniques and styles and most importantly built a good rep and a customer base. Adult night school provided some business savy too. On the way to becoming a 'business' I created a small sampling line of furniture, mostly reproductions of early American and country french pieces, things that I really enjoyed the challange of building. I took samples to showrooms, got some placed and sales took off. At the top of the curve I had 36 individual pieces in my line, which I could often build in multiples to get the 'economies of scale'. Incidently, I had an abiding fear that I'd get a rush purchase order for one of each of everything I made! I considered that the ultimate nightmare; that actually happened once when I got an order from a new rep to help fill their showroom at the Pacific Design Center.
One thing that I did differently from the other guys: I offered many stock items in custom sizes. My customers were all over but local deliveries went mostly to Beverly Hills, Bel Air, and other high end locales in the L.A. area; a pattern developed: many of the pieces offered in custom sizes would be ordered only slightly different than the stock item represented in the showroom. As it turned out I learned that they were paying a lot extra to make very sure the pieces of furniture were made especially for them! 
Ideas for line items: things that sell in multiples such as chairs, barstools, also tables, lamps, mirrors when building for hospitality and restaurant customers. For instance as a one man shop in the year 2000 I made 2200 floor lamp columns for the Aladdin Hotel redo in Las Vegas. I was able to do that by stretching the delivery period over the three months they were installing the new rooms…$108,000 in lamp part sales for 3 months is a good job in anybody's book. The point is: multiple sales…and always bite off more than you think you can chew…you learn to chew faster and more efficiently.


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## lc48 (Jan 14, 2011)

varity and people will be ready to spend money on little things from 2 to 20 dollars. teddy bear candles and the like


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## Uturn09 (Jan 21, 2011)

A lot has been said for making a variety but on the other hand look at someone like Sam Maloof. He made rocking chairs, no two the same. His business model was to build one rocker at a time, extremely well,and charge high rates. I've heard, once he was established, he got $100,000+ per chair. My view is if you do something very well stick with that.


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## Petewood (May 14, 2010)

I agree with the variety people…..with a personal caveat, sort of. I've been a woodworker for about 30 years, and still the learning curve hasn't flattened much; it's just gotten more sophisticated. I'll bet most here would agree with my saying that every project has it's own nuances, even where the processes are similar.
While I have (and still do) build furniture, cabinets, entertainment centers, jewelry boxes, etc; and while I do some inlay, lots of turning, etc….. I needed a "bread and butter" side of my business, so I added production of stock and custom wood mouldings. That side of my business can produce, on average, about 3,500 lin. ft. of crown, base and case in a day. Arches and ellipticals take a bit more time, but they're sold by the piece, not the foot.
Critical to my setup is that I can beat anyone locally by at least .50cents/lf (average), and still turn a healthy profit.
So, my point is that you probably want to go to the money in some way (where it doesn't come to you), but still be prepared for anything.


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## Brian024 (Feb 2, 2009)

I build and sell a variety of things, from small boxes to big dinning tables. The only things I don't build are installs/millwork, since it requires me to fall into another category of busines plus I would end of having to get my finish contractor's liscense. I find that I get more requests for things costing less than $50.00. Boxes, small picture frames, many of these I end up making another 3 or 4 while I'm making that one(production work). I then sell them and end up with a much larger profit than if I had sold just the single. I just recently started making small display boxes. I had a request for one, but had some extra scrap material for which I made 2 more with. I sold them for $50.00 a piece and instead of a $50 profit I ended up with $150 and I didn't spend any more extra time than had I built just one.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

Its a tough racket no matter what path you choose. the journey is rocky for most especially in the beginning.

I started 25 years ago, had a partner then and him and I chased 500 dollar jobs, that took a week to get, cost 600 in material and took a month to build. how to loose money fast….....take up woodworking 

I recently visited that partner after a 20 years apart. he wound up located in a spot that is "TOTAL ISOLATION", no road, highway in or out …......means you have to drive onto a ferry, cross a huge channel, drive 200km, jump on another ferry, drive another hour to get materials…..............and then go back, build the product and repeat the procedure to install it. he's been doing it successfully, for almost 18 years, has a dozen employees and is never slow ….............

diversification is a means to stay employed full time and when people say it cant be done,.........it can.


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

I agree with Jonathon - "3 or 4 different things… They should all compliment each other…"

People then consider you the go-to person for that particular line and will more readily approach you about something custom for that type of product line. They will ask you questions and pay attention to the expert when you give a response.

My approach is also that when I have two very different lines; say bedroom sets and Adirondack chairs, I don't display or hawk them at the same time.

Steve.


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## lwllms (Jun 1, 2009)

No one has mentioned the business side of this. One of the most difficult things is finding customers and, if you only make one thing, you have to find a new customer for each sale. If you make a variety of things you build a satisfied customer base who already knows about your work. It's pretty expensive and marketing intensive to build a business with no opportunity for repeat customers.


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## Petewood (May 14, 2010)

I believe that the topic being addressed is a critical component of this business. What to build is as important as marketing, because the market has to bear whatever you ultimately decide upon. You may have the finest marketing strategy ever conceived, but if you are limited to fuscia and pink entertainment centers for the bathroom, it'll likely fail. (...well, okay; maybe I want one.) My 2c worth: On a local level, I market anything custom; from furniture to duplicate architectural details and ballustrade systems, etc. My broader-based marketing (and therefore the majority of my marketing energy) is aimed at custom wood mouldings, because 1) they can be ordered from my catalogue, 2) there is none of the ambiguity associated with trying to sell a unique piece of furniture to someone 2,000 miles away, 3) I can produce mouldings at an average rate of 3,500 lf/day, and 4) my margin is higher than it is with anything else I produce, while still undercutting the local big boys. I don't try to compete with Home Depot; we sell different mouldings. I will mill MDF, but don't spend a lot of time on its marketing. I will offer poplar as my paint-grade, and market its superiority over MDF, along with the fact that you can have whatever profile you wish, and at a better price than my competitors.
So…..the point of my ad-nauseum post is that this thread is only asking whether it's better to specialize or generalize prior to marketing. I have found, for myself, that I need to do both, and market accordingly.


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## Jered (Sep 15, 2010)

Pete, what kind of setup do you have that allows you to compete with the guys making 12,000 lf/day and buying material at 25% of what you or I can buy it for?

I'm not doubting your success, just wondering how you do it since I have considered adding custom mouldings to my business. Conventional wisdom says don't try unless you have a 20hp gang rip and a six head moulder but sometimes bucking conventional wisdom can pay off big; what's the secret?

To the original poster, diversify within what your current machinery and shop layout will allow. You want your shop layed out to build your products efficiently so products that require a different layout are generally not worth pursuing.


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## Petewood (May 14, 2010)

Colin, I don't compete with anyone who makes mouldings for stock. While I refer to the mouldings in my catalogue as "stock", I only do so in order to distinguish them from truly custom, i.e., an old sample not in the catalogue, which needs to be duplicated. Generally, my clients are either general contractors or homeowners looking to purchase enough for a home or two.
The "secret" (if there is one) rests in overhead. Specifically, the lack of.
Example:
I have a friend who builds windows for a living, and he is phenominal. But, his windows are prohibitively expensive to all but the wealthy because of his overhead. In spite of being a one-man operation, he purchased a Mattison 276 moulder, 30hp gang rip, and an old, 20", 4,000 lb. planer. The reason, he said, is that "bigger is better". That's not true. Period. To begin with, I suspect that his initial investment far exceeds his projected ability of these machines to pay for themselves in the foreseeable future. Secondly, his overhead includes a monthly rent of around $1,500.00 and a power budget that is astronomical (all of his machines are older, 3-phase, 460V).
He is not selling enough to run them at anywhere near their capacities, and when they do run, they're expensive.
My one-man shop is on my premises. I require only 100 amp service, because the biggest power pig I run is a 25" Woodmaster (35A at 220V). It's a 3-sided moulder, 25" helical head planer, 4-up gang rip, and 25" drum sander with an easy head-change feature: a patented, self-centering #2 Morse-tapered shaft at each end of whatever head is in the machine. I can produce far more moulding than I can sell. If I could sell all of the moulding I could run, I'd make about $400,000.00/year (assuming my average profit to be $1.00/lf).
As far as what I get my rough lumber for…....
The local hardwood lumber establishment sells 4/4 white oak S3S for about $4.20/BF; rough for about $3.60. Their pricing is according to a "tier system" they use…that is, a different price for walk-ins, for general contractors, for cabinet shops, etc. I'm at one tier better than cabinet shop. I can get rough red oak from them for about $2.90/BF. * B U T* .......... that's still not very good, and so I get my lumber delivered from up north near L.A.: 4/4 red oak FAS….... $1.67/BF, delivered. On 3-1/4" moulding, that translates to something like $0.56/lin.ft. If I charge $2.06/lin.ft. for the moulding, then that produces a gross profit of $1.50/lin.ft., while still beating the price of my closest competitor by about .30c. If I liberally estimate my overhead (electricity, knives, grease, mortgage, etc) at even $0.50/lin.ft., then I have a net profit of $1.00 per foot.
If I run even 500 ft. of that moulding in a day, then that's a $500.00 day in my pocket.
All of this said….... there are some other aspects of overhead which can be eliminated:
1) Marketing. I do not hire a marketing firm to do my website, graphic design, business cards, brochures, etc. While it took me a long timeand some Excedrin to learn the various software packages, I do all of this myself, and now sail through it all. It was well worth the time and effort. Business cards, t-shirts, brochures and coffee mugs are uploaded to Vistaprint. I get their heavyweight business cards, because even something as seemingly subtle as the weight of a business card sends a message.
2) Employees/partners. I don't do either.
3) Tooling. There seems to be a lot of discussion here regarding the price of tools, particularly where Festool is concerned. I am decidedly NOT a wealthy person, and often barely qualify for middle-class. However, I've spent long periods of time, in years passed, living on PBJs and generic soups in order to obtain the tools and equipment I viewed as necessary to have for what I was trying to accomplish in my business. As a result, I own much of the Festool line, along with a lot of Powermatic stuff. A power plane, for example, is not just a power plane. The HL850 does things no other can, (the rustic heads) and with unbeaten reliability. Older is not better: a person may swear by a machine that their grandfather swore by, but remember this: the machine their grandfather swore by was new back then. One example of many profound improvements in modern tools: the helical planer head made every old planer obsolete, IMHO.
4) Time. Every single way that a process can be made more efficient without sacrifice to the finished product (location of tools and accessories associated with the entire scope of a particular process, and the make and model of each said tool) needs to be pursued and resolved. If a change saves one minute per hour, then make it so. Enough of those changes will eventually produce a shop of such efficiency that it will significantly impact net profit. One of many examples is Festool's Domino system. It's as fast as a biscuit joiner, but stronger, way faster, more versatile and more accurate than conventional doweling or splining.
5) Versatility. I've always worked hard to not only learn to produce any item which can be sold, but to be better and faster at it than what is typical at the high end of this industry. Not as a matter of ego, but definitely as a matter of money (commercial competition). The extent to which I've succeeded in a given area is subjective, but having that attitude has served me well. The reason I included this as an aspect of "overhead" is because highly-skilled versatility goes to one's ability to produce anything without involving another person.

Well, Colin, my apologies for the dissertation, but you asked a really good question that I couldn't really do honor to in just a few short sentences.


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## Jered (Sep 15, 2010)

Thanks for the answer, I understand that it is easy to get lumber for much less than retail but your costs, and my costs, are still at least 3 times higher than a big moulding operation. Overhead makes up for some but not all of it. I did think when you said you were able to undercut the big boys, you were referring to mouldings typically stocked in a lumber yard. I too can compete when making short-run custom jambs or mouldings, so that makes perfect sense to me.

I agree, bigger machines need to be producing 40+ hours/week to really pay for themselves but does the gang rip on the woodmaster give you nice straight blanks? If you had the room, would you consider a 10 h.p. straight-line rip? I'm thinking of adding that plus a 5 head moulder but I have also considered using the woodmaster as my gang-rip.


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

Colin and Pete - please continue your discussion, while I am not into anywhere your volumes or molding the information you are kicking back and forth is good. I've seen too much "advise" from people that aren't breathing and bleeding in the business real time.

Steve.


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## Petewood (May 14, 2010)

No on the 10hp s/l rip right now, because I don't need to produce that volumn (yet). I absolutely LOVE the gang rip setup on my Woodmaster. The blanks from mine are spot-on. With any gang rip, I'll cut maybe 1/8th fat, then run a bunch at a time through the planer on both edges to clean and dimension.
"while still undercutting the *local* big boys." Important distinction, and I should probably further clarify that I don't mean the MDF guys. We have a couple of moulding suppliers locally, and they each lease about 10,000ft2 of commercial property, and each have about 30 employees. Also, racks and racks of stock mouldings, all wood.
THESE are the guys who don't like me, because their "big" customers are also my "big" customers…... maybe a house worth of stuff.
On the lumber cost…....I don't personally know of any mill which can get red oak at .40c/BF without buying 10 or more units at a time. If they do that, they'd better find a way to sell all of it, either by finding a hundred times more clients than I can find….right now…... or by finding a few who need enough to do Trump Towers.
For me, what's important is to not make it until I sell it, to make it better (or at least as good), to sell it cheaper, and to have a fast turnaround time on it. On any run less than 10,000 ft., it seems to be working. I may even add a 718 this summer as a dedicated planer.


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## Petewood (May 14, 2010)

You're welcome…......it's the least I could do, what with all of the informational plundering I do on this site.
BTW…....as a matter of general business philosophy, Stephen Mines' post (above) nails it.


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## Jered (Sep 15, 2010)

"I don't personally know of any mill which can get red oak at .40c/BF without buying 10 or more units at a time."

That's exactly what the big moulding companies do. It goes back to me misunderstanding what you meant by "big boys".

Thanks for the response, I'm a little more tempted to get the woodmaster now. The thing that has me going back and forth is that you can get a straight line rip or gang rip saw at an auction for much less than what the woodmaster costs. But like you, I have a small shop and I'm not really sure how much square feet I would need to give up to run a SLR efficiently. Thanks again


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## WoodSpanker (Feb 10, 2009)

I liked the dissertation… couldn't have said it better if I tried.


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## Petewood (May 14, 2010)

Colin…....do whatever homework you need to do on this. And remember that the Woodmaster does much more than either dedicated rip, and does it well. I'm not a dedicated moulding company, and I would be afraid to be one in this economy. But, I can compete in mouldings really nicely on the local level. Additionally, my Woodmaster can cut all kinds of furniture and cabinet parts, including associated mouldings. AAAAaaaaaaand…..... flooring.
With the 3-sided moulding system, I can punch out about 3,500ft./day of 3/4" t&g wht. oak, and really clean stuff. It is also effectively a shaper with a powerfeed, for doing window/door stile work, etc.
So it's versatile, powerful, accurate and durable (5-year commercial-use warranty). It's 100% US-made, right down to the Baldor motor (the 25" helical planer head, however, is made in Germany). On my site is my mouldings catalogue. I can order any knife profile from Woodmaster with a 2-day turn-around time, if I order before 12 noon (I call Joe on Monday at 11, I'll have the knife via FedEx on Wednesday). Plus, any custom knife you can provide a sample for. The infinitely variable speed control (patented), the twin #2 Morse-tapered head shafts (patented) and a bunch of other protected stuff means that they have no direct competition. Belsaw was sort-of close, but not as versatile, and they're out of business (plus, Belsaw was started by the same family that started Woodmaster). Woodmaster's customer service is legendary, and anyone who has one will tell you so. Give them a call.
However you decide to configure, I would urge you to at least look into this.


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## Jered (Sep 15, 2010)

Thanks for taking the time to point out all the positives. After thinking about it further, I think I'm sold (at least for the moment). One of the deciding factors was the helical head planer attachment. I didn't realize they offered that until you mentioned it a couple posts back. 
Thanks again


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## Petewood (May 14, 2010)

Tell you what, Colin, it's a big investment, so I'm willing to talk to you (or anyone else) who has questions, directly.
Further, I'll post some pics in the next day or so, of the machine and its attachments.
In the mean time, if you have questions, you (or anyone else) can reach me through the # on my site.
Feel free to call. After hours, (I'm on Pacific time) you can text, and I'll get back to you if you give me a good time to do so.


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## Jered (Sep 15, 2010)

The more I think about it, the more this seems like the way to go. Like you say, it is hard to get the volume to justify bigger machinery in this economy. This has the bigger shops in a lot of trouble but it gives micro operations a huge opportunity. I have an old belsaw as well so I can leave that with a dedicated setup.

Do you have the digital read out? If so, do you need to zero it out fairly regularly or just when you change heads?

And, thanks for the offer but I'm actually more comfortable writing than talking.


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## Petewood (May 14, 2010)

That's exactly what it is (big shop-little shop thing), and I don't think it's going to change anytime soon. I do have the DRO (included in the ProPack), and it appears to be very consistently accurate, although my apparent OCD makes me check it fairly frequently. I just run a piece through, caliper it and see that the DRO agrees. 
Are you looking to get the 725? If not, seriously consider it. The 718 is a great machine; just as durable, but smaller. I've never had a 718, but more than a few guys with it have said that they wished they'd sprung for the 25". I'm glad I did. I think that 7" more capacity to plane, mould, sand and rip is very significant, as is 2.5HP more.
Also, there are a dozen or so Woodmaster videos on YouTube with Gary Streigler that are great.


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## Petewood (May 14, 2010)

Some images of under the hood.


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## Jered (Sep 15, 2010)

Thanks for posting pics, I'm definitely thinking about getting the 725 for the reasons you stated.


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## Petewood (May 14, 2010)

Do it. I have nearly every offering by Festool, the best lathe and bandsaw on the planet, and a ton of other really high-quality stuff. I love all of it. But, if I had to get rid of everything, one-by-one, my Woodmaster would be the last to go. Enjoy, and I'm looking forward to your unavoidably smiley posts.


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