# Angle box joints with a jig?



## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

Working on a cradle for my new granddaughter, and wanted to join the corners with a box joint, but I tried a few things earlier today and have a roadblock in my head as to how to do it…help?

To make it simpler, instead of a hopper shaped cradle, I could just angle the sides and leave the head and foot of the cradle 90 degrees, if that helps explain it.

Thanks!


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## fussy (Jan 18, 2010)

Randy,

Are you talking about joining the head and foot at an angle to the bottom with box joints? Could you cut the joints at 90* and a little deep, then miter the ends of the bottom, glue up and cut off what's proud at the tablesaw or bandsaw? Seems it should work.

Congratulations on the granddaughter. Whatare you using, Peruvian walnut?

Steve


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

http://sawdustmaking.com/Box%20Joint/boxjointjig.html
Sorry to be late.
Big smile,
Mads


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## Tootles (Jul 21, 2011)

If I undersatnd correctly, you are trying to do a joint in a corner with compound angles - neither the head / foot nor the sides are at right angles to the base. Is that correct? I suspect you will not get any commercial jig to do that. And my head is spinning a little at what you might have to do to make a jig to do this.

The strange thing is that, providing you cut all your pieces to size according to their outside dimensions, it shouldn't be too difficult to mark up with a marking guage and a sliding bevel. Any chance you want to do them by hand?

Otherwise, would mortice & tenons work?


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

Thanks Steve, as a matter of fact, *I am using Peruvian Walnut*... it machines nicely so far.

Attached is a photo I borrowed from a LJ project with box joints for illustration only, perhaps this will give you an idea of what I am after… I know it is a very simple process, but there is something I am missing, I can't get past the angles…my first trial didn't work, and maybe I will end up with mortise and tenon joinery…










Thanks Mads, I have a couple home made jigs like the ones you link to.

Tootles, thanks for the advice, I am going back out to the shop again now to see if I can figure it out. Don't really want to do it by hand, but I just know I am missing something in the setup…


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

On the table saw, to cut the side pieces, set the angle of the blade to slant of the headboard. Then set the miter gauge angle to the slant of the sides. Then use your standard box joint jig but with a modified pin to match your angles.

Do a small sample box to figure out whether the angle is left vs. right. You'll easilly get it.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

There was an article in Wood magazine that showed how to do this in the last 3 years. Someone who is smarter than me can probably find it. I remember the article had a very simple fix [I think similar to what Rance described but with more specifics].


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Justfine, think about it in terms of how it will slide together. The angle of the headboard is the same angle the joint has to be made to level it so it can slide onto the sides. The sides can be made level to slide onto teh head board even though it is angled also. I am sure yoiu can do it if yoiu take a couple pieces and experiment a little in teh manner I have described. Lots of times it is easier to get it yourself than to try to understand the instructions written by others with confusing details.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

As I see it all you need is a primitive jig that can hold it in the right angle and then you can angle it sideways on the miter.
But I look forward to see if you come up with a solution.
Mads


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

http://www.routerworkshop.com/angleboxjt.html


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

try to look at this maybee it can help you

http://lumberjocks.com/woodklutz/blog/25120

Dennis


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

Thanks everyone, I have played with a few scraps to see how to make it work, and yet with the large pieces (20" x 40") and using the hopper style shown in the photo above (angled both ways), it is going to be difficult on the tablesaw or router table. It's like splay and spread on a sawhorse.

Will have to look at alternative joinery, mortise and tenon will be easier for me, and if that doesn't work, there is always the 15 ga Porter Cable… hopefully not. 

Will take and post photos of the process as it progresses (not nearly fast enough for my wife).


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

It is not as hard as you are thinking. Once you have one of the board's joints cut at the proper angle, say the end, the sides will be easy as it is just a normal cut on a box joint jig. The side is a trapezoid rather than a square. Only the end boards will have to be jointed on an angle.


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

The ends are trapezoids too, right? Nothing is a right angle to the bottom of the cradle. I know it can be done, maybe just not by me. 

I have tried a few scraps and they just end up smaller scraps…

Really leaning towards mortise and tenon now.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Yes thay are. Nothing wrong with mortise and tenon.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Leave one side of the tenon open or off and you will have a unique box joint ;-))


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

Hey, that will work too! Thanks!


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Can't wait to see it ;-)) get to work!!


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## sIKE (Feb 14, 2008)

Forget everything I just said  for those who missed it…bad advice….......


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

Randy, Topo said it in post #8. EVERYTHING he said, including trying to get it across via the internet. I'll tell you what, you fly me out to your place and I'll walk you through it.  Seriously.

One more try: Do you use SU? If I were having problems with something like this, I might sketch it up in SketchUp. Then rotate the board around so it sits on end on a flat surface(my TS) and it should be very clear as to how to set up your saw. Just a thought. In fact, here is the setup for the headboard:










This was for a headboard tilted back 10 deg. with the side boards splayed out 15 deg. For these angles, set the following:
- Miter gauge forward (on the right side) 9.7 deg. 
- Blade tilt to the right 14.8 deg.
- Lean the board back 2.5 deg.

I never saw the need to lean the board back until I drew it up in SU. One theing else that this exercise revealed to me is that since your TS blade will be tilted, then you'll have some chisel work to do to make the bottom of the joints flat.


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

Rance, thanks for your input. I believe the additional angles are missed unless, as you say, you Sketch it out or try to cut them on the saw.

I fooled with it for a bit, and have decided I will have a difficult time keeping the large pieces perfect on the jig, and since having recently discussed it amoungst myself, I (we) agree (there was a little resistance) the next best thing will be mortise and tenon.

I have tried SU a bit, but not to the extent that I am comfortable with it.


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

This might help too. Just substitute box joints for DTs:
How to Make Compound Dovetails (part 1 of 6)

You might also try the book "Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking"(ISBN-10: 1561580686). I think most folks are just copying his methods.


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

Thanks for your suggestions everyone, and dovetails it is, and I have it just about solved, so will put it up in projects soon, or maybe a blog to help someone else along the way.

There was "a bit" of trial and error along the way and great happiness when the sample boards finally fit together, and there were a few angles I wasn't expecting…



















The final product roughed out, have sides and ends to finish shaping before I can think about assembly


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

looking goood sofare 

Dennis


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## Tootles (Jul 21, 2011)

I agree with Dennis, it's looking good.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

You pulled it off ;-) I knew you could do it. Good job!


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Beautiful!
I cant wait to see that blog.
Someone will be happy soon.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

YES! it can be done!!

The blog is here for the construction of the cradle. Thanks for looking and for your comments!


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## Mike3ID (Jun 7, 2015)

I had a radical idea when thinking about a cross cut sled.
If I were to take my plywood base and rip a kerf on the topside down the back edge 3/16~ deep, rip a complimentary kerf in my back stabilizing push fence how ever deep I can jam a piece of 16th stock in it glue and screw once I'm sure it's good and square.
Seeing it came off the table saw fence that way it's pretty much a no brainer it should be square just verify.

Ok now take the same concept take a scrap piece of ply.

Staple or use a pinner to make a temporary taper fence, use a stop block do that you get the same 9-21 degree angle in both the base and the push fence or better yet if design allows do it at 14° and double duty dovetails with it as well.

Just my 2¢ sorry for the late chime in hope you and the family are well.

Sorry I'm just chiming in on this and if similar has been brought up already.

Oh yeah ps make sure you mount your runners ash the proper declination angle and not square.

Hope this helps


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