# Sending it back



## Tomoose

Man - that really sucks, Todd. I had just recently read a review of that same planer here on LJ's and the guy loved it. I think I will go Dewalt when the time comes. Thanks for this informative review.

Tom

BTW - We are in the same neck of the woods - I am out in North Arvada


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## dbhost

It amazes me how different your experience with this planer is from that of Brad Nailor… Sorry to hear of your troubles…


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## JonathanG

Todd, I am sorry to hear about the planer, and worse yet, the customer service, or lack thereof that you received from Highland Woodworking.

I hope you can get this satisfactorily resolved.


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## live4ever

Wow. Sorry to hear about this. Based on the limited reviews I had read, I thought for sure this planer was a total homerun. Also disappointed about Highland. Thought they were "make it right" kinda people.


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## Brad_Nailor

I had the some of the same issues….the oil thing, was a problem at first, but it seems to have subsided..as for the planer marks, I get very slight almost undetectable lines along the length of the board that can easily be sanded out. The fit and finish on mine seems fine, no misalignment of any decals or non functioning parts.
Here are a couple pictures of a cherry board I planned in a video I posted in my review.



















The wider linesare just rub marks…. you cant feel any ridges at all on them. The other lines you see, you can barley feel with your hand, and cant be measured with a caliper. These pics were taken extremely close up, in macro mode with flash to illuminate the marks. I also noticed upon close inspection under a raking light that in fact there are "snipe" marks…I say marks, because, under normal light you cant see them, and you cant measure them with a caliper either, and they sand right out. How does this compare to what you were experiencing?


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## Moby

I just got this same planer and there wasn't much if any noticeable grease. But I did notice that the styrofoam under the cutter was soaked with grease. I haven't planed any boards yet but will soon. I'll post my results.


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## Brad_Nailor

Moby…same with mine the Styrofoam under the carriage was stained with grease but I wouldn't say it was soaked. Mine didnt spit grease out when i turned it on, but after I let it sit for a few days after the initial running, it dripped more grease out of the cutterhead on to the base. So far I planed a bunch of short maple and cherry pieces, so it was running for a while, and since then I dont see anything dripping out of the cutterhead. There still is a little lubricant that does come out at the posts..but that doesn't seem abnormal to me..that is where there should be lube. That piece of cherry pictured above was planed after the planer sat for a couple days..there are no grease stains or lubricant spatter on the wood.


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## redryder

Whenever I see a tool that is $100.00 off, I always ask my self….why is that???


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## toddclare

TO be fair, I have now "un grumped" a bit  I attended the first "wood finishing" class at Red Rocks Community college here in Denver (Hiya Tomoose, Jonathan and I are both in the Highlands, near 42 and Lowell) and remembered that it's all about the final product, not about the work you do to get there.

So…

I'm still really unhappy with the customer service aspects, but have decided to man up (when life gives you lemons) and open the thing up, clean and reseat the cutters, and give it a go. I'd rather NOT have to do that, and it will definitely influence my decisions for future purchases, but at the same time it does seem like it will be a good tool once I stop pushing all my currently negative energy at it, and it seems like once you dust it off (or de-grease it) people are very happy. I'll post an update once I have that complete.

Brad Nailor: thanks for those pics. I had those but one straight deeper one that you definitely could catch a fingernail on or feel. My bet is one of the cutters is just slighty off tilt, and by degreasing it, that should solve it.

In with the good air, out with the bad. After I get it fixed, I WILL revise my review/rating to hopefully be better so I don't (completely) jinx a good tool from being bought, but I'll leave in my comments and lack of stars for the customer service


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## Sawdust2

I've been dealing with HW for almost 30 years. Know many of the people by first name.
I've called them and advised them of your concerns.

Lee


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## toddclare

Just updated the review with new progress. Still not out of the woods, but moving in the right direction now.


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## JonathanG

Todd, if you run out, I may still have some NC brake cleaner out in the garage? Let me know.

Speaking of which, it makes sense to use the stuff since it's so good t degreasing car parts. It may leave a little tiny film, but probably not bad. Might want to run a sacrificial board through on the first few passes, going from one side, all the wat across.


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## toddclare

Jonathan - yep that was the point (and plan) of the guy I spoke with. He said he honestly uses it as a general cleaner and it does make a lot of sense.

I'll grab some as it sounds to be a useful product but if I use it all on the greaseball I'll keep you posted


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## JonathanG

I hope you're going to haul it out to the garage or alley to clean it! That stuff will stink up your house in a hurry, plus you'll have runny grease everywhere. Anybody that does this indoors should put lots of newspaper down under the tool.

I'll have to remember this when I get the new tablesaw. I'm sure it'll have a nice layer that'll need to be removed.


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## Highland

Dear Todd,
A number of our customers contacted me today to alert me about your post on LumberJocks. Customer service is a big deal for us, and though we sometimes goof up, we always want to try to make it right.

I'm so sorry that the planer we sent you has not lived up to your expectations. We've sold well over a hundred of these machines in the past year, and to my knowledge the response from our customers has been very positive.

We've had a few comments about the grease, but until today it did not seem like a major issue. However it sounds like the factory might have been exceptionally over generous applying it to the machine you received, and I apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused.

I also regret that the information you received from your initial calls to Steel City about how to clean it was less than helpful. We obviously need to add a sticker to the outside of the box offering the brake cleaner solution for removing the grease. I'm sorry we did not already know about that method so that we could have suggested it when you spoke to Phil Colson here yesterday about returning the machine.

I just spoke with Phil about your phone call together. He said he did not remember your mentioning a problem with lines left by the cutters. His impression was that your specific reason for wanting to return the planer was that you did not feel that you had time to clean the grease off, which may have related to your earlier phone call to the operator at Steel City who suggested it would take many hours. I'm very sorry for this misunderstanding. Phil's recollection is that it did not sound like a case of the planer being defective.

On your LumberJocks post you wrote "And (very disappointingly) Highland Woodworking won't pay to ship the defective product they sold me back, so that's another $50."

Todd, please know that we would be happy to replace any defective tool (or secure a repair) at no additional cost to you, or if you prefer, refund all your expense if you need to return a defective tool.

When I first read your post, I was very alarmed because it sounded like the unfortunate lackadasical response during your phone conversations about how to clean the grease must have been with someone here at Highland Woodworking. Later it was explained to me that those conversations were actually with someone from Steel City. I do hope that readers would not come away thinking that that is the way we talk with customers who call us for help.

We truly value our customers and want you to be satisfied with anything you purchase from us. We're also dedicated to offering helpful support in using our tools and resolving any problems you may experience.

Todd, if there is anything I can do to help you with your planer, please let me know directly either via email or by phone.

Sincerely,

Chris Bagby, owner
Highland Woodworking

[email protected]
800-241-6748 ext. 301


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## toddclare

Hi Chris,

Wow thanks for that response. My only gripe with Highland was that I got a product that arrived not as expected and the first response wasn't as far reaching as your offer, above. I hope (and reiterate here) that 90% of my issues were with the tool and Steel City (who are also moving in the right direction with me).

I did talk the grooves on the phone, but admittedly after a not short diatribe (self examination) on the grease. It likely just got lost in the noise, which is no problem here.

Family members live in the Atlanta area and I know a TON of folks that love Highland, and I would reiterate your point that, other than maybe missing the mention of the grooves, that Highland really had nothing else to do with this.

I think I'm going to clean the grease and see if I can find the wrongly seated cutter. If the cutter aspect doesn't prove successful, I'll give you a shout and we can figure out what's what.

Thanks again for that fast and wonderful reply. Exactly the service I was hoping for with Highland, and what I see happening. Excellent.

For everyone's info, I also added the Highland Update into the main review, above. In the web norm of never deleting content in a forum, I left the original (or else people might think Chris was a little crazy for responding to nothing) but added the update note.


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## Brad_Nailor

Wow..kudos ( I hate that word but it seems really appropriate here) to Highland, and Steel City for responding to your problem. I think it's pretty amazing to see corporate responses here on the site..makes me feel that they really care what we think as wood workers and consumers. I would have to agree with the assessment that your planer got whacked with an exceptional amount of lubricant. I think personally, they over lube them in general, because I might not have had a problem to your degree, but I still had to clean the machine several times to get the lubricant off it…but I think I'm OK now. I will try the brake cleaner deal if I still have a problem. It should be pretty easy for you to determine which cutter might be the one not seated properly. I am really glad to hear your changing your opinion…a person never wants to read negative stuff about the same EXPENSIVE tool he just bought! I have to say, that aside from the ocean of lube, I really like my planer…I get a better planed surface, and less snipe then when I used to have my lumber supplier plane for me…hell, I would have to throw away at least the first 4" of every board from the terrible snipe from their planer.


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## toddclare

And, full disclosure, I must admit that one-off manufacturing drama tends to get shipped to my house. Not sure how I angered the factory gods, but I seem to have that attraction. That and homeless animals.


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## Beezle

Sorry to write my first LJ post in the negative, but your review inspired me to stop lurking here.

I bought this same planer about a year ago or so. When they first appeared. Bought through my local shop.

There was very little grease in mine. I probably spent half an hour cleaning it and that was all. Maybe a little oil or grease got on the first test boards, but nothing to worry about.

Mine came in a box with foam inserts that clearly said "Ridgid," and this planer is obviously similar to Ridgid's older model. All that made me think was good, probably a decent factory as I have liked the few Ridgid tools I have used.

So that's all good, but I have a huge beef with this planer. Seriously big. Note I also own Steel City's original three knife planer and I still use that. It works well so far as a lunchbox 3 knife planer would.

This new planer, however, fooled me. I expected an actual helical cutter head and the many benefits that come with those. But that is not what you get. You basically get a single knife - one row - planer with the knife split up into segments. There is no shearing action and there is only one row of cutters. Typically, these would have three rows or more. Like the Shelix for the Dewalt. Which is what I should have gotten in the first place.

I have run quite a few species through it. Cherry, maple, figured and not, wenge, bloodwood, VG douglas fir, redwood, leopardwood, birch, poplar, you name it. It was pretty much useless for the more difficult woods, and nothing to be excited about even for the VG douglas fir, probably the easiest wood to plane on the planet.

I actually spoke with the Shelix people who have a decent head for the Ridgid planer to see if they thought I could use that in this one. He laughed about it as did I. It would be highly ironic.

So mine sits and if we lived close enough I would be happy to ease your pain a little by giving it to you free. That's how much I love mine.

Note that I like Highlands, always great service from them and my older Steel City planer gets regular use. But they should be ashamed of this machine. Really. The 3 knife one is a much better planer.


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## Sawdust2

I feel much better about this post, now. 
I've been watching a rant on another ww site. It, too, seems to be mellowing out after all the parties got to talking.
After 30 years of dealing with them I knew that HW would not have changed its stripes.
Todd, I'm sorry for you that the machine did not live up to your expectations. I hope you can tweak it to be useful for you.

Lee


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## Moby

I just fired up my planer and planed a small piece of pine and I got a very smooth surface that needed very little sanding and it would be ready for finish. I don't have any problems with grease. I will post a formal review once I have used the planer for a couple of projects.


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## Dedvw

I'm very impressed by the response from Chris Bagby.

I recently had multiple problems with a large woodworking retailer (I will call them retailer A for this disscussion) with 3 of my last 5 of my orders being charged to my credit card and then being cancelled for various reasons. I will keep all the details out because this would turn into a full 4 page response but will give you the outline of what happened. I would call the 1-800 number for help/information and get one reason why they were cancelled, then talk to the chat help the next day to find the status of my refund and was told totally different information about the order. I tried and tried to get through to someone within management and just kept getting the same department over and over. They were very polite, I will add, but robotic and answering machine responses aren't of real value to me.

I ended up filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, and finally got through to someone from their management office in Illinois. I've only used the BBB for one other problem in my whole life and this complaint wasn't for financial gain. It was to let upper management to retailer A know that there might be a real disconnect between customers and their help desk. I would like to purchase tools from retailer A in the future but would rather shop at a retailer like Highland Woodworking.


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## toddclare

Final update added above. Dewalt, here I come…


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## Brad_Nailor

Wow..that's too bad. makes me wonder about mine. I am worried maybe mine is OK now with the cutter alignment, but what about down the road? I can't afford a $550.00 paper weight…I need a planer that works. I hope mine stays where its at right now as far as cutter alignment. Also, i wish all these people surfacing with their negative experiences with this planer were out there before i bought the planer…I might have had a second thought….instead of after I bought it….


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## ChunkyC

I don't care what tool it is, I would never be happy with it if I had to spend days trying to clean it before I could use it. When I purchased my Delta planer, a referb'ed unit, I loaded it into the truck, put it in the shop and started running boards through it, literally. I've since re-adjusted the tables to help with snipe, but that's all that I've done to mine. Oh yeah, I did flip the blades over a couple of weeks ago because I started to get lines in the wood. There's no excuse for someone to add that much grease/oil/lubricant to anything.

I hope you like the new Dewalt! I've always like the looks of the Dewalt. It looks like a toad with big teeth that's about to jump off the work bench! It just looks like one mean machine.


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## grunt62

Very sorry to hear as well.

I remember when Steel City started, part of their info was that they wanted to be different and do it better than the other guys. Sounds like they have not quite achieved that .

Please let us know how the Dewalt works for you.


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## Manitario

thanks for the updates! It seemed like a really great deal based on other reviews I've read here; ie. a helical cutter head for $500… but I've heard a lot of stories about Steel City's quality or lack of, and it looks like you've experienced this firsthand. 
I have the dewalt 735 and have had no problems with it, other than a bit of snipe. Certainly wasn't covered in grease when I got it!


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## Highland

Dear LumberJocks,

I for one appreciate Beezle's critical review of the Steel City 40200H planer (#22 above). One's own direct experience using a tool seems far more valuable to me than reading someone else's review, and I completely understand Beezle's frustration and disappointment with the particular machine he received.

In almost 40 years in the woodworking tool business, I have come to realize that sometimes, for whatever combination of reasons, a particular individual may have a bad experience with the same tool that other people love. There are too many variables at play to know for sure what might cause this, but I have noticed it sometimes even seems to transcend a skilled woodworker's advanced knowledge and skill level. Some might call it chemistry. Others seem to believe it may have to do with karma. To me it remains a mystery.

Hoping that a $600 machine would achieve performance similar to a machine costing thousands of dollars could certainly lead to disappointment. However I too would be disappointed if a machine I bought failed to satisfactorily do the job for which I bought it, especially if my personal experience was that an older machine worked better.

The term "helical" is probably overused these days to describe various new blade and cutterhead configurations. Perhaps something like "helical-style" would be somewhat more accurate. Glen Huey in his nice article on new style cutterheads in the newest Popular Woodworking magazine suggests calling them "staggered-cutter" cutterheads rather than helical. Perhaps "spiral staggered-cutter" would be even more descriptive.

I empathize with Beezle over his bad experience with the Steel City machine he bought from his local dealer. I respectfully disagree however with his opinion that Highland "should be ashamed of this machine." Too many people have raved about its performance in their shops for me personally to reach that conclusion. Fortunately Todd's unfortunate experience degreasing the cutterhead appears to be an extreme case and not the norm.

Making finishing passes with just a quarter turn of the crank has produced fine results for us, ready for just a light sanding before applying finish. My daughter is using this model Steel City planer successfully in her shop. Perhaps this is a case where the old term YMMV is appropriate. That kind of seems to be the case among those who have used and reviewed this machine.

Based on our own experience after selling more than 150 of them, we still think the Steel City planer is a great value (especially at the sale price). Highland Woodworking is proud to stand behind it, and I pledge to continue to do so.

Happy woodworking to everyone here,

Chris Bagby, owner
Highland Woodworking


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## Beezle

To be accurate, I believe Steel City should be ashamed of that machine, not your fine retail business. My apologies if you thought I meant otherwise.

My woodworking experience is rather short, but if I pass portions of the same board through that planer and through for example Steel City's older planer, I get much less tearout with the older design.

Yes, I shouldn't have jumped on that machine when I heard it was coming without researching it. I heard helical and though great, I can get the benefits of that - primarily because I use a lot of figured wood - without having to assemble one myself using the Dewalt and a Shelix head.

I'm not one to have beefs unless I am quite sure it is the machine's limitations. I am an engineer and millions of people are either happy or unhappy because of decisions I make. So I understand the pain quite well.

I am in the process of buying a bigger "helical" machine and will post a comparison between the three blade, the one blade and whatever that turns out to be. And yes, that is in fact a one blade machine. There is little overlap.


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## Loren

I think Sears is selling a Craftsman-badged version of this planer - returns
may be easier and so forth going through a Sears store.


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## Gofor

I would like to highlight one of the items mentioned by Highland in the latest reply, and that is the article in Feb issue of Popular Woodworking by Glen Huey "Upgrade Your Cutterhead". It contains a good explanation about the different styles of segmented cutter heads, as well as some comparison cuts , etc. It is not a review of planers, per se, but more an evaluation of the different styles, how they work, and what you can expect if you replace a straight blade with one in your jointer or planer. However, it contains a lot of good info that could be applied to purchasing a new piece of equipment as well.

Go


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## newTim

I have had a similar experience with spiral/helical/staggered cutters and grease. Perhaps this story might help others.

My 8" Grizzly jointer was caked in grease, including the spiral/helical/staggered cutter. I started to remove the cutters as that was the only way to clean the head. I soon discovered the torx screws holding the cutters had been over-tightened at the factory and would not come out. Grizzly said to use A) a heat gun or torch, B) a torque wrench, and then C) assemble it as is and run some boards through. No joy. They ended up shipping a replacement for the entire top of the jointer. That would be the bed, fence, etc. It seems that the spiral/helical/staggered cutter-heads are not modular or perhaps they did not have any in stock. One good bit of luck in that I had paid the extra $50 to have the carrier (FedEx) move the pallets from the truck to my garage. Otherwise, according to Griz, I would have had to pay $150 to send the defective jointer-top back to them. Go figure.

The point of this story however, is that this was a blessing in disguise. Had the cutter-head not been so greasy I would not have had to remove the cutters and therefore would not have discovered that they could not in fact be removed until a few months later when getting any help from Girzzly would have been impossible.

So just like when you buy a white car and all you see are white cars, when you have a problem with something you begin to hear about all the other people who have the same problem. In the few months since this experience, I've heard many stories about grease and frozen torx screws on jointers, planers, and shapers from different manufacturers.

It seems to me, and I could have this wrong, that they all buy the cutters from the same manufacturer and just pop them in to whatever machine they are selling. You slop on a bunch of grease, put the part in the bottom of a boat, sail it across the ocean, then store it in the back of a cold warehouse, and whala! The grease congeals and you end up with frozen screws and screwed customers. At the end of the day I must congratulate Grizzly for sticking with it and doing right by me even though it was a real hassle for both of us and I can't see how they made any money on the deal given the extra packaging, support, handling, and shipping costs. But I won't look past them when it comes to my next purchase and I will likely even go out of my way to support them given a tossup.

And just a side-note to the Highlands guy and other retailers: I didn't pay hundreds expecting thousands in quality. The bottom line is the economy sucks and we're all in this together. As Americans we need to be doing it better and more often. I need you the supplier and you the retailer to be better, just like you need me to be better at my job. And not because I'm a customer, but because my prosperity is inexorably linked to yours as yours is to mine. If you win and I lose we both lose. And if you win and I win then we both get to continue winning.


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## NormG

What an unneeded issue. I am looking for one, never had one, but have found a need for one. I think I will go with either Delta or Dewalt. I have very limited shop time


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## glassyeyes

Todd, great review; you helped me make up my mind. I have an older Delta 12.5" that snipes a bit too much and has a few other issues. I don't have the room or budget for a 15" floor model, either. I really wanted a helical cutter head, like I have on the jointer, but Steel City was the only one of those in my price range, and had 4 negative issues for me: 1) too many negative posts about quality and setup-cleaning issues, 2: getting spare parts in the future, 3; the cutters are HSS, not carbide, and 4: the cutters appear to have only two cutting edges, not four.

I FOUND THE DEWALT DW735X PACKAGE AT MAXTOOL.COM FOR $580 including shipping. This package includes an extra set of blades and the outfeed table extensions, about $100 in extras. Not exactly an earthshaking bargain, but it beat the bare bones refurb at $500, the bare-bones new 735 at $600, or the package at $630.


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## Tennessee

I own the Grizzly G0453P, and it also came in with a lot of grease, but I would say not as much as described. With brake cleaner and a few cheap 2X4's, I was able to spray and fling it all out. This same grease I ran into quite frequently while living in Shanghai, as it is used on just about any metal product they make due to be shipped overseas.
Apparently, as it was explained to me, the salt air while on board a container ship can and will penetrate any container, box, and sealed plastic bag. Also, ships vary in speed, which relates to price. The newest and fastest can make the trip in about 9 days now, the oldest ones in the fleets can take as much as 17 days on the Pacific. Obviously it is cheaper to ship on a slower ship, but that's a lot of time to make rust. Then the 2-4 days at port-of-entry, and another few days in a totally different environment on a train or truck, finished up by a period in somebody's warehouse.
So the final perception in China is more grease is better. And a whole lot more grease is even better still.

I remember years ago, when working for the music industry in Pennsylvania, we were making a CD box set for some famous artist, and our purchasing agent tried out a new couple who had just entered the wholesaling business with imports. They landed the contract for all the boxes we would put the CD's in, and these boxes had little brass coated corner protectors on them, as well as simple latches.
When the boxes arrived at our factory, all the metal corners were rusty, and we simply rejected the whole shipment.
By some fate, I happened to walk through the holding area where the boxes were stacked, nice and rusty and unusable, as the couple literally cried to each other that this was their biggest deal ever, and they were done unless they could get the factory to take them back, very doubtful.
So I would venture that Steel City USA mandates a LOT of grease, please, since it is easier in their minds to ship extra grease than it is to receive rusty machines. Funny how one person's need becomes another's problem. Highland takes the brunt of the customer's displeasures, can measure that, and they will make the risk analysis on whether or not to keep carrying any certain tool. As Chirs Bagby said, they choose to keep running with Steel City and this planer.


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## rus

My planer was delivered in slightly smashed box. Usually with good packing material it is not a problem.
But not in this case. 
Right upper corner of machine was bended. It cause of damaging upper bearing seat and pretty bad bending of high adjustment spindle, so when I'm changing high, it makes upper part moving horizontally. 
With additional $35 for delivery it is a poor service. 
Also it is no any evidence of carbide cutters, just additional 'C' at the and of model number made by black marker.


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