# How safe is Sawstop?



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Please don't get all defensive over my question. I don't own a Sawstop, but I do appreciate it's safety feature. We all know nothing is perfect. The best tool, car, machine, airplane, etc; you get the point. That said, What is the probability that any flesh sensing technology, (Sawstop) could fail resulting in loss of fingers or more? Any such failure would result in a massive law suit. Maybe that is why Steve Gass sold it to TTS, to avoid any possible litigation. What are your thoughts on this?


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

Either way, it's still safer than a normal table saw. I don't own one, but I wish I did.


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## gargey (Apr 11, 2016)

It's 83.725% safe, compared to 71.11375% safe for a Unisaw, and 98.1435% safe for a handsaw.

Routers are only 64.11355725% safe.


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## doubleG469 (Mar 8, 2017)

always that one guy….


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## bbasiaga (Dec 8, 2012)

It's reliable enough that most people on the Internet are worried about false positives/inadvertent trips.

The circuit itself probably has been tested to one failure in 10,000 or 100,000 , which would be 99.9999 or 99.99999% reliable. I don't know this for a fact, but that is typical for things like airbags and explosion prevention systems which use similar curcuitry.

My thoughts are that Gass did not sell out over this fear. The saw has been on the market a long time now, and cut hundreds of thousands of hot dogs. If it didn't work, the haters would have made sure we know about it. The sale to Festool parent was probably about cashing in, free capital to grow the business, and access to international markets.

Brian


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Like Brians point at the end… 
If there were videos of hotdogs getting cut in half, at a woodcraft or woodworking show, it would be all over the internet/youtube… showing the '1 time it failed' to be trumpeted by everyone that didn't like Gass, to say SEE SEE SEE!!!! it is crap and doesn't work!!


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## AZWoody (Jan 18, 2015)

I doubt he sold in fear of a lawsuit. He would not be able to even go to market if he did not have some sort of liability insurance. I'm sure it's very expensive but he would be covered. He's an attorney, he would have made sure his bases are covered.

I seriously considered a Sawstop but my needs were better met with a format table saw. It has it's own safety features in that the hands go nowhere near the blade and you are off to the side of the blade in event of kickback.

I have my reservations about his methods of trying to get a law passed and that does turn me off, but in the end, it is a safer product. It's like dust collection. There's a cost vs safety ratio that everyone has to consider for themselves.


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## Dwain (Nov 1, 2007)

Listen. It works. The safety in a SawStop is there. That has been proven. ALSO the saw is of fantastic quality. It is an excellent unit. I believe most woodworkers if given the option would replace their own table saw with a SawStop. I can't afford one, and I don't believe I will ever spend what it costs to buy one. I am happy with the cabinet saw I have; so I just pay more attention when I use it. I don't have that safety net. Ideally, you would have the safest saw and be as safe a woodworker as possible. How important is it to you? Again, it's out there and it works. IF you want the safest table saw, get a SawStop. If you want to be a SAFE woodworker, a SawStop isn't needed, but it helps.


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## doubleG469 (Mar 8, 2017)

Oh and as for costs as I inadvertently posted in another forum that I thought was about table saws…



> As of today, i will only buy a sawstop.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The ER bill will be more than the table saw guaranteed. So take it for what it's worth. IMHO


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> always that one guy….
> 
> - doubleG469


Always that one guy without a sense of humor and has a need to chastise other for their sense. Just saying.

A good sense of humor is a sign of psychological health.

https://qz.com/768622/a-good-sense-of-humor-is-a-sign-of-psychological-health/


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

My personal thoughts are that some people with sawstop will start to become more careless relying too much on the saw to not cut them, rather than using common sense.

We all know that sawstop works and is a solid product.

What we don't need, however, is for people to start becoming careless.

Remember, just because gun safeties work doesn't mean we point a loaded gun at someone with the safety on and pull the trigger.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Someone above mentioned…you can bet that when a SS fails the news will spread like wildfire through forums and other social media. I'm sure there's a chance, but it's extremely small. One other thing, I always wondered about the "shelf life" of the cartridges…apparently there is none; good to the day they are tripped. I know a fellow on another forum tripped his. It was the original in the saw; purchased in 2006.


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## dmo0430 (Aug 28, 2015)

I read a post about someone who turned the sensor off for a cut. Didn't turn it on and next time he was in the shop made a couple of mistakes and lost a bunch of fingers. I'm sure the tech is pretty good or like people have said someone would have pointed it out. You can't count on the human aspect of the "tech" though and we'll still make mistakes like thinking the safety is on when it isn't. (Just to add to Tay's point)


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> I read a post about someone who turned the sensor off for a cut. Didn t turn it on and next time he was in the shop made a couple of mistakes and lost a bunch of fingers. I m sure the tech is pretty good or like people have said someone would have pointed it out. You can t count on the human aspect of the "tech" though and we ll still make mistakes like thinking the safety is on when it isn t. (Just to add to Tay s point)
> 
> - dmo0430


As safe as the operator.


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## richimage (Aug 30, 2013)

DMO0430, as I read your post, something jangled my (limited) memory, so I checked, and SawStop says:
"When you have completed your cut, push the Start/Stop paddle in to turn off the motor. The safety system 
will remain in Bypass Mode until the blade comes to a complete stop. Once the blade has stopped, the 
safety system returns to normal Standby Mode. The next time you start the motor, the safety system will be 
active unless you repeat the procedure described above to start the motor in Bypass Mode." I recall that because I had the same question in my mind about using the bypass…

richimage


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Yep, the accident as described isn't possible unless there was a major malfunction with the saw. It (the safety system) resets after it's switched off.


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## HarveyM (Nov 11, 2012)

I spend more time worrying that my airbag will fail.


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## oldwood (Dec 29, 2014)

I am a SS owner/user and former salesman for a local business that was dealer at the time. I am very fortunate that my boss gave me one when I retired because it saved my left index finger. I have also performed the hot dog test quite a few times in trade shows. Guys, it works! Period!
As far as becoming careless I find it actually serves as reminder to be more careful but, yes I still made a mistake.
And I assure you the scenario described by TaySC is not possible.


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## oldwood (Dec 29, 2014)

I am a SS owner/user and former salesman for a local business that was dealer at the time. I am very fortunate that my boss gave me one when I retired because it saved my left index finger. I have also performed the hot dog test quite a few times in trade shows. Guys, it works! Period!
As far as becoming careless I find it actually serves as reminder to be more careful but, yes I still made a mistake.
And I assure you the scenario described by TaySC is not possible.


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## oldwood (Dec 29, 2014)

Dang! how do I delete that second post?


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

SawStop technology will not prevent kickback, which is probably encountered more often than run-ins with the blade. That's what a riving knife is for. And yes, I'm aware that SS has a riving knife.

Without faulting the safety of Sawstop, I still say I like the Bosch technology (Reax) better. If you can simply drop the blade below the table, why slam it into an aluminum block to stop it, likely damaging the blade, and (I can't help wondering), maybe other components too, such as arbor or bearings?


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

I'm not against anyone buying SawStop. I'm not against anyone not buying SawStop. It's you decision, your money. I didn't care for Grass's tactics.

How safe is SawStop? I don't know. I have read/heard many times that anything electronic will fail sooner or later.


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## AZWoody (Jan 18, 2015)

> SawStop technology will not prevent kickback, which is probably encountered more often than run-ins with the blade. That s what a riving knife is for. And yes, I m aware that SS has a riving knife.
> 
> - runswithscissors


You are correct but kickback is one of the leading ways that a hand gets sucked into the blade so, besides the riving knife, it does have added protection for kickback.


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## Bohaiboy (Jun 27, 2013)

I have a SS cabinet saw. Luckily I haven't experienced an incident with flesh. However, I was cutting a tricky angle with a tenoning jig and wasn't paying attention on setup. The blade touched the jig (dado insert and blades) and disappeared abruptly as soon as the metal made contact with the blade. I could not see even a paint chip on the tenoning jig. The brake slammed up and the inertia retracted the blade before I knew what happened. $89 for a new aluminum brake, blade was salvageable. Fingers, I still have 10. If a high quality saw sells for the same price as other high quality saws, and throws in tis safety feature, why not buy it. As someone mentioned earlier, your ER bill will be far more expensive than the saw, not to mention the embarrassment of having to explain that your circumvented safety because you thought it was a gimmick. Why risk it. If the saw were an inferior saw, well maybe a case. But this saw is fantastic and will work one to one with any saw out there.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> If a high quality saw sells for the same price as other high quality saws, and throws in tis safety feature, why not buy it.


Absolutely… unfortunately, there isn't one on the market at this time.

Cheers,
Brad


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## playingwithmywood (Jan 10, 2014)

I hate their business practices and how they sued to keep other manufactures out of the market place with similar technology

I also will never own a Apple product for how the run their business and how they have negatively effected the technology sector and Apple fighting against #RightToRepair

I try to avoid Evil Companies but it is getting harder and harder to do at this country is in failure mode


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## Woodmaster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

It is safe. I own a Unisaw use the guard, riving knife and push sticks. Would I buy a Sawstop yes but I doubt I will because I love my Unisaw and disliked the Sawstop pcs 1.75 that the school had were I taught. The 3hp would have been better but the Unisaw has features I like. The front controls on a Unisaw are great and the 5hp motor cuts anything without bogging down.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

I find it's simpler and cheaper to follow the rules of tablesaw operation and not have to worry about paying extra to save me from my own stupidity.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

It is amazing that this same topic with the same responses comes up about once a month. The same people have the same things to say.


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

> Someone above mentioned…you can bet that when a SS fails the news will spread like wildfire through forums and other social media. I m sure there s a chance, but it s extremely small. One other thing, I always wondered about the "shelf life" of the cartridges…apparently there is none; good to the day they are tripped. I know a fellow on another forum tripped his. It was the original in the saw; purchased in 2006.
> 
> - Fred Hargis


Each time you turn the main switch on it does a system check of the mechanism for that session and verifies it's viable. Little blinking light stops and that's your cue to go ahead and start it up.


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## edapp (Jun 27, 2014)

One point about the kickback/riving knife. Before I got my sawstop i never used the riving knife in my old Hitachi. I didnt use it because it was a pain in the neck to install, align, and remove. When i needed to remove it the first time, it never went back in. And yes, I have had a kickback on that saw.

The sawstop on the other hand, and some of the other modern cabinet saws, has a simple, easy lever to install and remove the riving knife. Also the table insert is easy to remove and reinstall with no fasteners (my old saw needed a screwdriver). These simple, non electronic things make my operation of the sawstop safer, and encourage the use of safety features.

Similarly the fact that you can use the saw in bybass mode, but have to turn the key every time you turn the saw on (cannot "leave it" in bypass mode) is a safety feature i like. Again encouraging safe habits.


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## Carloz (Oct 12, 2016)

You will find that most people who do not have it tell you how bad it is and how a Unisaw is better. People who do not own Mercedes will tell you that their Honda does everything a Mercedes can and some more. A frog in a puddle will croak you that it is better than a lake…


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

I did not read all the replies, so if I duplicate sorry. I do own one, and would not want to cut without it. In an early article on the sawstop the inventor shopped it around to all the big guys on the block, and story goes, they did not buy for that very reason. However he did not give up and built one heck of a TS around it. They regret not taking the offer now.

As to will it work, lt will. Worst case its just a TS and would be no worse than without. It will work. Great investment. Had mine a good amount of time now and love it.

Cheers.


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## Markmh1 (Mar 9, 2017)

I own a Sawstop PCS. I look at the safety feature as I would the safety on a firearm, that is, no replacement for proper handling.

My wife, doctor, and insurance guy are all happy I have a Sawstop. I really don't think about the safety feature. When I bought the saw, I thought the safety feature was a gimmick. I bought the saw for the saw's construction. It is a nice saw.

As far as growing complacent because the safety feature will protect me, the thing I think about most is, it's about a $150 excursion to trip the brake. I don't need that expense, or the delay to get a new cartridge and blade.

When I use the saw, the second thing I'm thinking is how nice it is and why did I wait so long to buy one.

Mark


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## doubleG469 (Mar 8, 2017)

> always that one guy…. **  ** ( for Alaskaguy so he recognizes sarcasm)
> 
> - doubleG469
> Always that one guy without a sense of humor and has a need to chastise other for their sense. Just saying.
> ...


Exactly, look in a mirror. it's funny but i see you trolling a lot of comments in different forum posts. I guess it's how you get your jollies.

Edit: maybe I should have put a smiley face behind it so you would understand sarcasm..


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

Apparently SawStop does the job. However, good sense and proper precautions also do the job. I began using a table saw about 1967 and today after 50 years I still have all of my fingers. The use of proper jigs and fixtures to handle unusual cutting situations, well designed push sticks, and the ingrained use of exaggerated hand motions to be sure the hands are clear of the blade at all times have served me well.

On the other hand, if you are a shop beer drinker, an alcoholic, or just generally incompetent, the Saw Stop is for you! : )


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Apparently SawStop does the job. However, good sense and proper precautions also do the job. I began using a table saw about 1967 and today after 50 years I still have all of my fingers. The use of proper jigs and fixtures to handle unusual cutting situations, well designed push sticks, and the ingrained use of exaggerated hand motions to be sure the hands are clear of the blade at all times have served me well.
> 
> On the other hand, if you are a shop beer drinker, an alcoholic, or just generally incompetent, the Saw Stop is for you! : )
> 
> - Planeman40


...or don't have 50 years experience and only get to spent 10 hours at most in the shop per week, or need your fingers for you day job with a keyboard.

You guys remind me of life long smokers that haven't gotten cancer yet.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

I didn't start out with "50 years of experience" and I am a home type woodworker. But I was very careful to train myself in shop safety in the beginning and I use good sense and care when working. And I do value my fingers as I use them all day and every day. Accidents most often happen when someone is trying to make a cut without proper jigs or fixtures or "just getting this one cut" without using a proper way of holding the work.

I am not against a Saw Stop. But most of us home-type woodworkers can't throw that kind of money into a table saw. But safety can be achieved without a Saw Stop by good sense and good practice. To me Saw Stop makes sense for schools and manufacturing businesses where the users are all types. And if you have the cash, by all means, buy one!


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> I didn t start out with "50 years of experience" and I am a home type woodworker. But I was very careful to train myself in shop safety in the beginning and I use good sense and care when working. And I do value my fingers as I use them all day and every day. Accidents most often happen when someone is trying to make a cut without proper jigs or fixtures or "just getting this one cut" without using a proper way of holding the work.
> 
> I am not against a Saw Stop. But most of us home-type woodworkers can t throw that kind of money into a table saw. But safety can be achieved without a Saw Stop by good sense and good practice. To me Saw Stop makes sense for schools and manufacturing businesses where the users are all types. And if you have the cash, by all means, buy one!
> 
> - Planeman40


Thanks, I did.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> ...or don t have 50 years experience and only get to spent 10 hours at most in the shop per week, or need your fingers for you day job with a keyboard.
> 
> You guys remind me of life long smokers that haven t gotten cancer yet.
> 
> - RobS888


Using a saw safely is a choice, not experience. But there are people who want the safety feature and I have nothing against it. Just don't pretend like it's necessary and we all should have it.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

Lets leave Rob alone. He is just trying to justify his spending $3,000 on a table saw. Its only natural. : )


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*Any technology, mechanical/electronic can fail!*
What is MTBF, mean time between failure, of the technology employed may provide some insight as to how safe it is!

I have to agree *runswithscissors* that the Bosch Reax is just as effective and cheaper when it becomes time to "reboot" the Table Saw.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> ...or don t have 50 years experience and only get to spent 10 hours at most in the shop per week, or need your fingers for you day job with a keyboard.
> 
> You guys remind me of life long smokers that haven t gotten cancer yet.
> 
> ...


He touted his experience as a factor in not needing one.

Who said you should have one? Who said it was necessary? Are you sure you are answering the proper thread?


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Lets leave Rob alone. He is just trying to justify his spending $3,000 on a table saw. Its only natural. : )
> 
> - Planeman40


If only you knew what you were talking about. It is a great saw and was only $1,800.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Any time the word Sawstop is mentioned, regardless of the context, the pro and con followers have at it. To bring up another related topic; instruction manuals! How many people actually read the instruction manual of any tool before using it? I would venture a guess that maybe 70% give it a casual glance then go directly to use the tool. I'm sure many accidents have happened because the user failed to read the manual and may have been prevented had the user read the manual first. For example; every manual starts out with a list of cautions, dangers, do's and dont's. It is boring reading and most think they already know the dangers involved and skip over it. This creates in the user's mind a state of false composure, a recipe for a possible accident. I personally have been guilty of such a state when a seemingly safe tool like a sander turned around and bit me. Damage was not great, but it reminded me to be more vigilant.


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

There are ways to design equipment so that errors will tend to cause false triggers rather than NOT triggering when it should. I strongly suspect they have designed it this way.

Of course, nothing is ever perfect, so I'm sure there is some possibility, and perhaps it has actually happened. But I doubt it is high enough to even consider it a factor in a purchasing decision.

As a SawStop owner, even if the brake were only going to be effective 90% of the time, I like those odd way better than the 0% of the time other saws provide. And I'm sure the reliability is 99.9+%.

Keep in mind there is some type of electronics, probably a microprocessor that performs systems checks every time the saw is turned on. So it has some ability to detect problems before the blade even turns.

And of course, there are others dangers besides putting your finger into the blade to be concerned with, so a SawStop isn't going to ensure you never hurt yourself. But ti does make it really hard to cut off your fingers.


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

My next door neighbor, who I generally think of as an extremely competent and careful mechanic/technician, just showed me his bandaged hand and hopes today's surgery will save his four fingers. He was cutting a small piece of ply and did something stupid.

We're all humans, and we all make mistakes. You can't declare you will always be safe. No human can do that. You can improve your odds, but the reality of the number of table saw incidents is a really big issue. It tells us that it's pretty darn easy to make mistakes around table saws.

I don't know about you, but I make plenty of mistakes even when I'm trying really hard not to. Mistakes around table saws tend to be unforgiving - both the "can't make a board bigger with another cut" and the "cut your finger off" ones. The large number of incidents makes "improving the odds" a difficult to win calculation. .0001×10000 is 1

My wife, who knows me pretty well, happened to be with me on a trip to the local Rockler and I was drooling over the SawStop. When I told her what it did, she insisted I buy it. Who was I to argue? But the point is that she knows, as everyone knows, that careless mistakes happen to us all. So, please don't tell me that you decided that you won't make mistakes around your TS. You can insist you will ALWAYS operate it safely. I claim you can't do that. No human can.

I am VERY careful around my SS. I treat it as if the safety feature wasn't there. I've never tripped it. I plan to never trip it. I try really hard to be safe. But I'm not at all willing to trust that I will actually always be safe.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> ...or don t have 50 years experience and only get to spent 10 hours at most in the shop per week, or need your fingers for you day job with a keyboard.
> 
> You guys remind me of life long smokers that haven t gotten cancer yet.
> 
> ...


You also brought up experience as a reason for having one. And then compared it to cancer as if injury were an inevitable consequence. I disagree with both those opinions. But you did not say we should all have one, my mistake for bringing it up. But I recently read an article in non woodworking magazine that flesh sending tech should be made law on all table saws so I guess it was on my mind.


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

Personally I have nothing against sawstop and don't really get the defensive mentality of some of its owners. I think it's great that technology is advancing to make us safer in our daily lives. What I don't really get is why some people have to make out like it's their job to defend SS at every turn.

If others prefer another brand, then who cares?

You don't hear people get all up in arms arguing because woodworker 1 bought a powermatic and woodworker 2 bought a grizzly…..

Just curious, for those that are casual woodworkers / hobbyist, which model of the SS do you own? Some of the contractor saws are fairly reasonable in price. The professional series is where they seem to get pretty crazy, but I'm also sure that has to do with what you re getting. The contractor series all seem to have a 1.75 HP motor. Is that large enough for everything that you guys do or do a lot of you have the professional series SS's?


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

I know people who refuse to wear seat belts in their car because 5% of the time it causes worse injuries.
Of course, they conveniently ignore the 95% of times that it minimizes, or prevents injury altogether.

For me, I will take the better odds.

I've used a Sawstop. Don't currently have access to one.
If I were in the market, I would definitely buy one.

Even taking care, accidents will happen. 
How well you are prepared by proper use of your saw will have a very large influence on the outcome of the accident.


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

My thoughts are without any objective background knowledge the TTS company has Robert Bosch in there somewhere.

Whats next Airbags on saws and even then there is a risk of secondary injury involved.

Saws no matter what type are designed to cut, in fact any turning device will cut, just check out the youtube videos.

In fact a scroll saw will sever a finger, it might take you a little longer time but I am sure somebody (fool) has done it!

The seat belt is a good example, you cannot show off a massive bruise in person dead.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> ...or don t have 50 years experience and only get to spent 10 hours at most in the shop per week, or need your fingers for you day job with a keyboard.
> 
> You guys remind me of life long smokers that haven t gotten cancer yet.
> 
> ...


Could you show me what you are talking about?

Plus Flesh Sending sounds like home delivery from the butcher.

EDIT:

I was referring to the cognitive dissonance of smokers, not all get cancer, but a lot do get cancer or COPD. Many people do hurt themselves on a table saw.

If you don't like it don't buy it, but why complain about it? I don't care what you think the inventor did.


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## JackDuren (Oct 10, 2015)

I'm trying to figure out why this post was created. Been discussed numerous time already.

Bored or post count?


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> I m trying to figure out why this post was created. Been discussed numerous time already.
> 
> Bored or post count?
> 
> - JackDuren


Probably, you need to ask Ron.


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## DirtyMike (Dec 6, 2015)

looks like all they players showed up for this one. saw stop is the best Chinese made out there.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I read all of these comments, and I've seen others on similar threads. The false information and downright BS out there is stunning sometimes. I've owned a 5hp Sawstop for years. I know many others who have used them for years as well. Enough with the endless theories and bloviating from people who have zero experience with them aside from their hours ripping on them on internet forums. Here are the facts:

*Can the system fail?*
No. It can not fail. It simply WILL NOT TURN ON if anything is wrong in the system. Period. That makes it more reliable than the airbags in your car, which everyone trusts on faith. (I never see threads about "what if my airbags don't work when I need them…") The saw verifies the brake mechanism is working, every time.

*Can you disable it and forget to turn it back on?*
Not possible. Disabeling the brake requires turning and holding the key before the cut. You can't do it by accident. And once you flip the switch off, the system is re-enabled. If that fails, it will not turn on. Period.

*Will wet wood set it off?*
Theoretically, yes. But it would have to be so wet the water flies off the blade at you. If in doubt, disable the brake and make a cut. The system will flash if the cut would have triggered it.

*What about false-triggers?*
Maybe Bigfoot has false-triggers on his saw, but I have never met anyone who has, including folks all over the country I speak to at public events, and people at Woodcraft and Rockler stores that work with them every day. Even on the internet you always hear someone say "I know a guy…" I have never met anyone who personally has had one. It's possible, but clearly very, very rare.

*Will a brake-trigger damage the saw?*
I personally know of several saws that have been set off dozens and dozens (one hundreds) of times for demos. They are still perfectly aligned and running smoothly.

*Will it destroy the blade?*
No. Sawstop says to replace the blade, but that's nonsense. Send it to your sharpening service to have the two or three teeth that were in the brake checked.

*What about kickback?*
Kickback is dangerous, mostly because it pulls your hands into the blade, and as we know, SawStop has that covered. They also have easy to remove and re-install riving knives and splitters, and anti-kickback pawls. There is no saw that does more to prevent kickback.

*Is the safety features the only reason to get one?*
No, it's also a FANTASTICALLY designed and built saw. (I speak of their cabinet saws). One pro woodworker I know, who owns several different saws says of the Sawstop: "If Powermatic uses a 1/2" bolt, the Sawstop uses a 3/4". It's overbuilt. Period. It HAS TO BE to withstand all that force from the braking mechanism! And I know of no saw with better dust collection, which is no small consideration.

*Do you need one if you're a safe woodworker?*
I laugh at the comments that say "I don't need one because I know how to safely use a saw", or worse "Only idiots have saw accidents." I know a handful of people who have had serious table saw accidents. EVERY ONE OF THEM were safe, responsible and experienced woodworkers. It happens every single day to the safest among us because humans have brain farts! It happens to everyone, EVEN YOU! Tell me you've never done something in your life without thinking? Ever run a traffic light? A stop sign? Ever merge into another lane and get honked at because someone you didn't see was there? Stuff like that happens once in a great while to everyone. It only take ONE brain fart to completely change your life at the table saw. Not just shorter fingers, the loss of full use of a hand for the rest of your life! Don't act like it's crazy to think you might when the stakes are so high.

*Should Gass have tried to force us to use his technology?*
Nope. That was an anti-free market move. Of course, he followed it up with a complete 180; a true pro-free market solution. he went out and built a company that not only made saws with his tech in them, they are arguably the best saws on the market even without it! But if you want to ignore the second part of that story and punish him for the first part, that's your right. (Though he doesn't own the company anymore, so that point is moot). But we live in a world where we can't even buy the light bulbs we want because people get the government to tell us what we can and can't have. You can't buy the most efficient gasoline for your car because the ethanol folks. Nearly every bit of our lives is regulated to some extent by some government lobby. Are you REALLY going to make your stand over something that can literally save your hands?

*Should YOU buy a SawStop?*
I think so, but that's just my opinion, and I won't get a nickle if you do or don't. It's the highest quality saw I have ever used. But I know a guy who makes stunning furniture with a $100 craftsman saw he got off craigslist. He also rides his motorcycle without a helmet. We all make our own choices, take the risks we think we can afford and spend our money the best way we can. But let's deal in facts, at least.


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## johnstoneb (Jun 14, 2012)

Actually while wet wood in theory might set the brake off. Wet wood actually will shut the saw down without triggering the brake. I have done it before The wood had a pocket of wet that you could wring water out of. I couldn't figure out why the saw stopped until I pulled the wood off the blade then read the manual. I did what it was supposed to do.


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## JJohnston (May 22, 2009)

> My personal thoughts are that some people with sawstop will start to become more careless relying too much on the saw to not cut them, rather than using common sense.
> 
> - TaySC


That's exactly why I removed the airbags and seatbelts from my car! They were causing me to drive recklessly!


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

> Just curious, for those that are casual woodworkers / hobbyist, which model of the SS do you own? Some of the contractor saws are fairly reasonable in price. The professional series is where they seem to get pretty crazy, but I m also sure that has to do with what you re getting. The contractor series all seem to have a 1.75 HP motor. Is that large enough for everything that you guys do or do a lot of you have the professional series SS s?
> 
> - TaySC


Still no answers?

It seems like most of the SS guys aren't really interested in talking about the saws, but in arguing about or defending them.


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

> My personal thoughts are that some people with sawstop will start to become more careless relying too much on the saw to not cut them, rather than using common sense.
> 
> - TaySC
> 
> ...


Apples to oranges.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> Just curious, for those that are casual woodworkers / hobbyist, which model of the SS do you own? Some of the contractor saws are fairly reasonable in price. The professional series is where they seem to get pretty crazy, but I m also sure that has to do with what you re getting. The contractor series all seem to have a 1.75 HP motor. Is that large enough for everything that you guys do or do a lot of you have the professional series SS s?
> 
> - TaySC
> 
> ...


I have used all of their saws. I own a 1.75hp contractor saw, and a 5hp industrial cabinet saw. Here are my opinions based on my experience:

*Jobsite saw*
I don't like it. But I'm not a contractor, and this saw is specifically for the jobsite. If you like the Bosch jobsite saws (which are of excellent quality), then you'll probably like the SawStop too. The quality seems the same, and it has some very clever features.

*Contractor's Saw*
It's nicer than the open back contractor's saws on the market now, but it's not nearly as nice as the cabinet saws. The lift mechanism isn't as smooth, etc, as my early-2000's Delta that it replaced. The dust colelction is better than most, but not as good as the cabinet saws. I recommend saving your money up for the small cabinet saw instead of this one.

*Small cabinet saw*
These are nice. Very well built, very smooth to operate. Great dust collection. I am not a fan of the basic fence that comes with them. It's worth upgrading to the pro fence which is fantastic.

*Industrial cabinet saw*
This is a beast. Mine is 5hp and will cut through anything. I have almost no complaints. I wish it had a 6" dust collection port instead of 4".


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## HarveyM (Nov 11, 2012)

Running a $100 brake into my $145 Forrest Woodworker isn't something I'm interested in. My common sense tells me I'd rather enjoy a night out with that money rather than explain to my wife what the bang in the basement shop was.

I went with the small cabinet saw- it's had (reportedly) better dust collection and it a smaller footprint than the contractor's saw. Price wise I thought they were close enough to spring the the cabinet.


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

I remember reading about someone that cut themselves with a saw stop. They managed to do it while the saw spun down because instead of turning it off they cut power to the saw and in doing that this disabled the safety feature.

I can't even really imagine cutting power to the saw to turn it off.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

I was helping a neighbor move his Saw Stop when it tipped onto its side and smashed my toe, 
so yes, 
They are unsafe!
(really could have happened with any saw so in theory, all saws are unsafe)


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> My personal thoughts are that some people with sawstop will start to become more careless relying too much on the saw to not cut them, rather than using common sense.
> 
> - TaySC
> 
> ...


Ha ha!


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> I was helping a neighbor move his Saw Stop when it tipped onto its side and smashed my toe,
> so yes,
> They are unsafe!
> (really could have happened with any saw so in theory, all saws are unsafe)
> ...


w

Warning, warning, some people here have no sense of humor.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Just curious, for those that are casual woodworkers / hobbyist, which model of the SS do you own? Some of the contractor saws are fairly reasonable in price. The professional series is where they seem to get pretty crazy, but I m also sure that has to do with what you re getting. The contractor series all seem to have a 1.75 HP motor. Is that large enough for everything that you guys do or do a lot of you have the professional series SS s?
> 
> - TaySC
> 
> ...


I have the 36 inch contractor, cns175 is the model number. 1 3/4 hp, with the mobile base. Waiting on the Sawstop router wing.

What can I say it was a joy to assemble and the company has pretty awesome support. Other than that it is a nice saw, much better than the R4512 I had.

Oh, I ripped some white oak a few weeks back, no problems. I can post what I use it for if that would help you.

Although, I don't think you care how we use them.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> My personal thoughts are that some people with sawstop will start to become more careless relying too much on the saw to not cut them, rather than using common sense.
> 
> - TaySC
> 
> ...


Your sarcasm meter is busted.


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## AZWoody (Jan 18, 2015)

> I m trying to figure out why this post was created. Been discussed numerous time already.
> 
> Bored or post count?
> 
> - JackDuren


I think the OP is trying to stir the pot. Another recent post is on Festool quality. Two topics that have been discussed ad nauseum on this and other forums and end the same way, with people arguing.


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

> Just curious, for those that are casual woodworkers / hobbyist, which model of the SS do you own? Some of the contractor saws are fairly reasonable in price. The professional series is where they seem to get pretty crazy, but I m also sure that has to do with what you re getting. The contractor series all seem to have a 1.75 HP motor. Is that large enough for everything that you guys do or do a lot of you have the professional series SS s?
> 
> - TaySC
> 
> ...


The thread was a discussion about the reliability of the braking system and I think that's been discussed. Your question just got lost in the noise. As for defending them, I've never seen someone defend them before someone else said something critical about them.

Guys like me defend them becasue we think they are great saws. Only natural that anyone who buys one believes in the value of them. And of course, we all weigh purchasing decisions differently.

What makes no sense to me are the guys that seem hell bent on criticizing them. Most have likely never even touched one. I believe this comes from rationalizing why they don't have one. Though I always respect the guys who simply say "I don't want to spend that much on a saw". Can't argue with that.

Anyway, in answer to your question, I'm a casual woodworker and have a 36", 3 HP PCS with T-Glide fence. Great saw. I've had it about 2 years now. If I were making the buying decision today, I'd get exactly the same saw.

I've read plenty of comments with people happy with a 1.75 HP saw. I don't think I've read any comments from someone disappointed with actually buying and using a 1.75 HP and regretting not buying more power. Lot's of people weigh this very choice. Most seem to give into the "what's a few hundred more, I'm getting the 3 HP", but some don't.

In my case, the cost difference was trivial when spread out over the many years I expected to use the saw. I've made some max depth cuts (3+") and there was no apparent slowing of the motor.

Only time I have a hard time feeding stock through is if the wood has internal stresses and starts pinching the splitter. I can only imagine what would happen without the splitter.

That's an aspect many don't appreciate. SawStop has taken great care in making other safety features like guards, splitters and riving knives very easy to use. These items are not simply items SawStop threw in with the saw, knowing people would likely not use them. They engineered them very well, making them super easy to swap in and out as needed.



> I read all of these comments, and I ve seen others on similar threads. The false information and downright BS out there is stunning sometimes. I ve owned a 5hp Sawstop for years. I know many others who have used them for years as well. Enough with the endless theories and bloviating from people who have zero experience with them aside from their hours ripping on them on internet forums. Here are the facts:
> 
> ...
> 
> - StumpyNubs


Stumpy, thanks for an absolutely excellent post. You hit a lot of nails squarely on the head with that one.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> Plus Flesh Sending sounds like home delivery from the butcher.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> ...


Sending = sensing, hope that clears up your confusion. 
As for the rest, I never mentioned the inventor nor did I complain.

not directed at anyone …
I'm the sort of person that doesn't care what other people do as long as it doesn't involve me or hurt anyone. If you want a SS, have one. If you want 10 wives and they are willing, have them. If you want to worship a bull, a statue, a book, a space ship, or a narcissistic rich guy, go for it. Want to blow all your money in Vegas, have fun. If you do it at the expense of someone else, like your family, society, or anyone in particular, we have a problem.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

> not directed at anyone …
> I m the sort of person that doesn t care what other people do as long as it doesn't involve me or hurt anyone. If you want a SS, have one. If you want 10 wives and they are willing, have them. If you want to worship a bull, a statue, a book, a space ship, or a narcissistic rich guy, go for it. Want to blow all your money in Vegas, have fun. If you do it at the expense of someone else, like your family, society, or anyone in particular, we have a problem.
> 
> - Rick M


+1 Rick M


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

As always, it was interesting to hear different views. This was meant to be a DISCUSSION, not a battle. Most have viewed this as a discussion as it should be. I am not trying to "stir up the pot" with such a passionate topic. I do like to keep an open mind, much the same as with politics by not taking a hard stand. Even though this post was posted under "safety", it could of been at home under coffee lounge. Sorry if anyone took it the wrong way.


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## DanielP (Mar 21, 2013)

So, a 1/16" deep cut for every 1 foot per second. I think I read that somewhere. That seems pretty slow. When I see demos pushing hot dogs into blade I never see any quick movements, like if your finger was getting bounced into the blade during a kickback.

Anyone have experience with this?


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

The 1.75 HP vs the 3 HP was what I was really interested in. I have watched youtube reviews of each and as clin mentioned, it didn't seem anyone complained that the 1.75 HP was underpowered.

What is the difference in the ICS and PCS mobile bases?


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> So, a 1/16" deep cut for every 1 foot per second. I think I read that somewhere. That seems pretty slow. When I see demos pushing hot dogs into blade I never see any quick movements, like if your finger was getting bounced into the blade during a kickback.
> 
> Anyone have experience with this?
> 
> - Dan


That's another myth you hear a lot on the internet: "They always do those demos really slow". I have seen more demos than I could possibly count. They have all been at full speed. In fact, they ALWAYS put the hot dog on a piece of wood and cross cut the wood with the hot dog to show it is a real-life situation. There are big crowds around those demos, and the folks are always vocal. They would never get away with going really slow in an unnatural way, believe me. At one show (Detroit 2017), the guy literally jammed it in as fast as it would cut, every time he did the demo. The result was a very slight nick in the hot dog's outer skin. Every time. That's it. You could punch your saw blade Chuck Norris-Style and you may draw a tiny bit of blood, but you probably wouldn't even need a band-aid.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> The 1.75 HP vs the 3 HP was what I was really interested in. I have watched youtube reviews of each and as clin mentioned, it didn t seem anyone complained that the 1.75 HP was underpowered.
> 
> What is the difference in the ICS and PCS mobile bases?
> 
> - TaySC


ICS is their biggest (Industrial) model. It's built even heavier. Mine is about 800 pounds. The trunion is beefier. The table is larger (more space behind the blade). It's likely more than a one-man shop would need, especially considering the added cost. Save your money and instead of the ICS, get the 3HP PCS. This is a one time in your life purchase. You don't want to wish you had the extra power someday.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

> The 1.75 HP vs the 3 HP was what I was really interested in. I have watched youtube reviews of each and as clin mentioned, it didn t seem anyone complained that the 1.75 HP was underpowered.
> 
> What is the difference in the ICS and PCS mobile bases?
> 
> - TaySC


The ICS base sets a new standard (IMO) as to how a mobile base should be made. It allows the saw to pretty much sit flat on the floor on the 1/8" or so undercarriage frame, when you need to move it the entire thing lifts straight up with a hydraulic jack (foot pedal pump). All 4 wheels swivel so it's a piece of cake to move it exactly where you want. Mine has the 52" extension and the whole assembly lifts with the saw. I've not seen the PCS base, so someone else will have to chime in.


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

> The 1.75 HP vs the 3 HP was what I was really interested in. I have watched youtube reviews of each and as clin mentioned, it didn t seem anyone complained that the 1.75 HP was underpowered.
> 
> What is the difference in the ICS and PCS mobile bases?
> 
> ...


I went to their site and did the build your own saw thing. I went with the 3 HP cabinet saw, with the 36" T-glide fence, a dado zero clearance insert, a saw blade and the ICS mobile base and it was just over $3,300…. so probably $3,500-$3,600 delievered.

Are you saying that I should go with the PCS base and not the ICS? If so, that saves about $200. I definitely want a mobile base, however.


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

> The 1.75 HP vs the 3 HP was what I was really interested in. I have watched youtube reviews of each and as clin mentioned, it didn t seem anyone complained that the 1.75 HP was underpowered.
> 
> What is the difference in the ICS and PCS mobile bases?
> 
> ...


OK, gotcha. That's the one I saw on the last video that I watched.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> Are you saying that I should go with the PCS base and not the ICS? If so, that saves about $200. I definitely want a mobile base, however.
> 
> - TaySC


I thought the difference was significantly more than that. If it's only $200 more, than it depends on how much that $200 is worth to you. The larger table (extra 3" behind the blade) is nice to have. And bigger is always better when it comes to shop machines. But even better would be a couple of nice Ridge Carbide saw blades for that same $200. I guess what I'm saying is, if you have the money to burn, the ICS is nice. I would get it. But if you have other needs in your shop, I'm not sure you will later wish you got the ICS when you have the PCS.

Another consideration is weight. Bigger is better, but it's a lot harder to get into your shop if you don't have a lot of help. And the ICS base is indeed fantastic, but getting the saw INTO the base can be a nightmare if you don't have at least four strong guys to pick up the saw above the base, and lower it down inside. Are you going to move the saw regularly? If only once in a while, you can save some cash with the cheaper base.

I would also wait to buy one for their special free base (not the ICS) or overhead dust collection kit deal that they run a couple of times a year.


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

> Are you saying that I should go with the PCS base and not the ICS? If so, that saves about $200. I definitely want a mobile base, however.
> 
> - TaySC
> 
> ...


I think I've either confused you with what I'm saying or confused myself…. LOL

I'm talking only about the mobile base. When building the professorial series 3 HP saw it gives you the option for either the PCS mobile base ($199) or the ICS mobile base (apparently it has a PCS adapter and it's $328). So the difference is actually less than I thought at $129.

As for moving it, my shop is my 2 car garage, so I do like putting everything on casters so if the need arises I can move everything to one side and park my car in there.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

When I got my saw, the industrial mobile base was $500, while the PCS was free if you waited for the sale. In fact, I was under the impression that the PCS mobile base was actually integrated into the cabinet itself.

I am not sure about the PCS one, but the industrial mobile base has four swivel wheels, so it will move easily in any direction, which is really nice to have so you don't have to maneuver your machine around like a trailer. If the other base doesn't have that ability, get the industrial one.


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

Hard to tell on the PCS mobile base.










The ICS mobile base is definitely a step up and the price has come way down from that $500.


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

Found this short video of the PCS base and it isn't too bad.


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## knockknock (Jun 13, 2012)

> My personal thoughts are that some people with sawstop will start to become more careless relying too much on the saw to not cut them, rather than using common sense.
> 
> - TaySC


This person is either proving your point, or isn't using common sense (in which case he should really think about what kind of example he is setting).


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> This person is either proving your point, or isn t using common sense (in which case he should really think about what kind of example he is setting).
> 
> - knockknock


If you have never used your hand a single time to cut an 10" wide piece of material, you are a rare woodworker. Should you do it? Probably not (although the general rule most woodworkers use is if it's wider than your hand with your fingers spread, you don't need a push-stick). But we all do it once in a while. The only difference is everything I do gets picked at by folks like you with an agenda, while you get to pretend you wear your face shield, ear muffs, steel toed boots and leather chaps every time you walk past the shop.

But what does that photo you went to the time and effort to find, screen shot and post on here, have to do with anything I said above?


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## knockknock (Jun 13, 2012)

> But what does that photo you went to the time and effort to find, screen shot and post on here, have to do with anything I said above?
> 
> - StumpyNubs


I am just showing some context of what you consider safe. As you made the following statement.



> *Do you need one if you re a safe woodworker?*
> I laugh at the comments that say "I don t need one because I know how to safely use a saw", or worse "Only idiots have saw accidents." I know a handful of people who have had serious table saw accidents. EVERY ONE OF THEM were safe, responsible and experienced woodworkers. ...
> 
> - StumpyNubs


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> I am just showing some context of what you consider safe. As you made the following statement.
> 
> - knockknock


No, you are being disingenuous. I never said that was safe. I said we all do stuff like that (which is far from reckless, by the way). YOU are trying to put words in my mouth to prove a point I never made, and which has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. You went as far as to track down one of my videos and look for something you could screen-shot just to stir up an argument. Then you applied it to a quote that you had to take out of context. (The quote was about how safe woodworkers have accidents because we all have an occasional brain fart. But you left that part out so you could frame it as something else.) It's that kind of nonsense that ruins threads like this. Congratulations for being "that guy".


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

Seriously though, I was learning a good bit and planing for my next tablesaw.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> My personal thoughts are that some people with sawstop will start to become more careless relying too much on the saw to not cut them, rather than using common sense.
> 
> - TaySC
> 
> ...


I'll admit to making that cut 1000's of times and even with less that 10 ''


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> I ll admit to making that cut 1000 s of times and even with less that 10
> 
> - AlaskaGuy


As do 90% of woodworkers. But don't worry, I am sure he's combing the video archives looking for some tiny screen shot that's worse so he can use it to further try to argue a point that I never made, just to stir up crap and ruin yet another LumberJock's thread….


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## Markmh1 (Mar 9, 2017)

I have the PCS with the PCS mobile base.

Every single time I move my saw, I wish I had the ICS base with the 4 swivel castors. At what the saw costs, the extra money ($130 or so) doesn't seem to make much difference.

I should call Sawstop and see if I can retrofit swivel castors.

Mark


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

> I have the PCS with the PCS mobile base.
> 
> Every single time I move my saw, I wish I had the ICS base with the 4 swivel castors. At what the saw costs, the extra money ($130 or so) doesn t seem to make much difference.
> 
> ...


I actually found the ICS base at a nearby Mann Tools for $299, so only $100 more than the PCS base.

My problem would be finding the people to help me lift the saw into that ICS base.


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

> Are you saying that I should go with the PCS base and not the ICS? If so, that saves about $200. I definitely want a mobile base, however.
> 
> - TaySC


NO !!!!!

You probably want the ICS base. The PCS base has two fixed castors and two swivel. The ICS has all 4 swivel. So you can rotate a saw on an ICS base in place. With a PCS base you'd have to keep scooting the saw back and forth to fit it into a tight spot.

If you have a wide open shop it wouldn't matter as much. But either you want a mobile base so you can tuck the saw away when not in use, or, like me, you have a small shop and need to rotate the saw between ripping or cross cutting long boards.

Does this mean you couldn't get by with a PCS base? Of course not. But an ICS is much more maneuverable. I know the ICS is also much heavier built. But it's been two years since I was in a showroom playing with both. So I don't remember much about the details of the PCS base, other than much harder to maneuver.

I always like to warn people about the ICS base ground clearance though. The ICS base is a very heavy frame resting on casters. A sling mechanism hangs from this and that is what the saw sits on. When you raise the saw, it is this sling that lifts up taking the saw with it. It easily lifts the saw an inch. However, the main frame doesn't move at all and it has at best a 3/8" ground clearance on all four sides.

My point is, it works really well on any typical surface, but beware if you plan to roll it from your garage to driveway. If you have anything more than about a 3/8" lip or threshold, you will not be able to clear it. It's common where I live to have a 1" lip where the garage floor is higher than the driveway. Keeps rain out I guess. Though we get maybe 6" of rain a year. Go figure.

Anyway, that one inch might as well be the Alps, the saw isn't getting over it.

It's on my to-do list to shim my ICS base casters to create more ground clearance. This will also require placing a similar thickness under the sling so the saw's weight can rest on the floor.

I have no idea how the PCS base is for ground clearance. If it were better, then maybe it would be possible to replace the two fixed castors with swival casters and have something better than the ICS in some way.

If ground clearance isn't an issue, and it won't be for most users, the ICS base is otherwise near perfect. Very simple smooth hydraulic lift. 3 pumps and your clear enough. Rolls with the push of a finger. Press to release the lift and it smoothly lowers back to the ground.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> I have the PCS with the PCS mobile base.
> 
> Every single time I move my saw, I wish I had the ICS base with the 4 swivel castors. At what the saw costs, the extra money ($130 or so) doesn t seem to make much difference.
> 
> ...


Thanks, that answered my question about the PCS casters too.


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

> My problem would be finding the people to help me lift the saw into that ICS base.
> 
> - TaySC


No matter what base you get, you'll need to get it under the saw. I know I've done mine with four people, 3 lifting and one rolling the base under the saw. Might even have done it with two lifting, But I'm not sure. I know I did it twice as the first base I had was a floor model, and something was missing and I got a replacement.

The saws are heavy, but you don't have to do a clean and jerk, just get it 4-5" off the ground so someone can slip the base under.

Beer always seems to work as an incentive to getting helpers. But, rule #1, always do the job before doling out the beer. Always. Work first, beer after.


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

Most of you have probably already seen similar demonstrations, but here is a live comparison of the Bosch Reaxx and the Sawstop.

I think the guy doing the tests is an absolute nut, but it is what it is.


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

Good info Clin, thanks.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

It doesn't surprise me that the Sawstop was twice as fast as the Reaxx in stopping the damage to their fingers. They say it is 6X faster than a car airbag. But those tests make little sense for two reasons. First, both saws saved his finger from serious injury. Who cares if you need a bigger band-aid with one. And the Reaxx saw is no longer available in the US, and won't be for a very long time. And even if it were, Bosch is not going to make a full size table saw. So the point is moot anyway.


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

I just still find it crazy that someone volunteers to test something like this with their own hand/finger, knowing they will get cut, even if it is just a little.


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## BHZ (Sep 21, 2015)

I've been using a RAS since I was a kid, tablesaws terrify me. So for my first tablesaw I bought the 3hp PCS. Wonderful tool, period.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Geez… I need to stop reading this 'CHIT because the popcorn is making gain weight!

SOS!

SOS!

SOS!...


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

I know it is hard for some of you to believe but there are woodworkers who do not have the money to buy even the little jobsite SS. If they read this thread, they might very well conclude that using any saw besides the Sawstop will inevitably lead to severed fingers. In fact, the vast majority of long time table saw users have never cut themselves and never will. I doubt if very many Sawstop readers drive a concrete truck around instead of a car just so they will be safer in a crash. Everything a person does is a calculated risk, including getting out of bed in the morning. You can't ignore the cost/benefit ratio.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> ...If they read this thread, they might very well conclude that using any saw besides the Sawstop will inevitably lead to severed fingers…
> 
> - ArtMann


Where'd you read that in the comments? Certainly not in my responses.

Let me quote myself…



> *Should YOU buy a SawStop?*
> I think so, but that's just my opinion, and I won't get a nickle if you do or don't. It's the highest quality saw I have ever used. But I know a guy who makes stunning furniture with a $100 craftsman saw he got off craigslist. He also rides his motorcycle without a helmet. We all make our own choices, take the risks we think we can afford and spend our money the best way we can. But let's deal in facts, at least.


And your cement truck analogy is a little silly. Sawstop is not the cement mixer of cars. It's the car with airbags. When airbags first came out, I couldn't afford a car with them. But I sure didn't go around mocking them, making up crap about their reliability, or trying to convince others not to get them, as the anti-sawstop folks around here love to do…


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

This forum has taken on a life of its own!
Good stuff for every watching.


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## HarveyM (Nov 11, 2012)

I made a mobile base for my PCS with four swiveling casters using 6/4 oak. I used the holes in the cabinet intended for the stock mobile base to run all thread through to mount it on the base. The saw is about 1/2 higher than stock.


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## Kazooman (Jan 20, 2013)

> My problem would be finding the people to help me lift the saw into that ICS base.
> 
> - TaySC
> 
> ...


You do not lift the saw into the PCS base. The components of the base are assembled on the saw while it is laying on its side. You then tip it upright. I did this myself without any problems.


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## Markmh1 (Mar 9, 2017)

As far as lifting the saw, I use an engine hoist. I bought the thing for $200 when I moved my lathe downstairs and needed to reassemble it. It's a tool I bought that, at the time, I thought was a stupid investment. "When am I ever gonna use this again?"

Tools are always a good investment. That thing has been handy more than a few times.

Mark


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

> As far as lifting the saw, I use an engine hoist. I bought the thing for $200 when I moved my lathe downstairs and needed to reassemble it. It s a tool I bought that, at the time, I thought was a stupid investment. "When am I ever gonna use this again?"
> 
> Tools are always a good investment. That thing has been handy more than a few times.
> 
> ...


I always have to do things by myself (out in the sticks) so years ago I also bought an engine hoist. It has really been worth it's weight in gold for the things I
i've done with it…including lifting my saw. But you don't have to buy one, you can usually rent them fairly cheaply just be sure to have a couple of 8' long load straps to wrap around the table to lift it. Cheap ones from HF work just fine.


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

> And your cement truck analogy is a little silly. Sawstop is not the cement mixer of cars. It s the car with airbags. When airbags first came out, I couldn t afford a car with them. But I sure didn t go around mocking them, making up crap about their reliability, or trying to convince others not to get them, as the anti-sawstop folks around here love to do…
> 
> - StumpyNubs


Only if the sawstop actually hurt people that would be fine otherwise.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

The most dangerous thing about a Sawstop. ....a thread about Sawstop.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

What happened to Ron, he doesn't seem to be participating in his thread anymore.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

Ya Ron where are you.Hope your ok.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

It appears the thread has shifted from safety to mobile bases, so I guess that's it from me.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

You could always start a thread about Health Care negatives, 
as long as it doesn't get political.

(Just messin with ya MrRon)


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

> It appears the thread has shifted from safety to mobile bases, so I guess that s it from me.
> 
> - MrRon


OK, back on track..


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

> I know it is hard for some of you to believe but there are woodworkers who do not have the money to buy even the little jobsite SS. If they read this thread, they might very well conclude that using any saw besides the Sawstop will inevitably lead to severed fingers. In fact, the vast majority of long time table saw users have never cut themselves and never will. I doubt if very many Sawstop readers drive a concrete truck around instead of a car just so they will be safer in a crash. Everything a person does is a calculated risk, including getting out of bed in the morning. You can t ignore the cost/benefit ratio.
> 
> - ArtMann
> 
> ...


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> I count myself in there, over a couple of years I put together a complete shop with equipment that was surplused from local schools closing their programs. The entire cost of ten machines was less then the SS.


Ditto… although from various sources, not just local schools. For less than what the SS contractor saw will set you back, it's entirely possible to completely outfit a shop with some pretty high-end tools.

Cheers,
Brad


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> For less than what the SS contractor saw will set you back, it s entirely possible to completely outfit a shop with some pretty high-end tools.
> 
> - MrUnix


When I started out I bought second-hand stuff, and was proud to do so. But I'm not sure you can "outfit a shop with some pretty high-end tools" for under $1500 (The cost of a SS contractor's saw). Harbor-freight tools, yes. And again, I've got nothing against bargain tools for a hobbyist, but "pretty high end" costs a little more than that, in my experience.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> But I'm not sure you can "outfit a shop with some pretty high-end tools" for under $1500 (The cost of a SS contractor's saw)
> - StumpyNubs


Don't worry, I'm sure it can be done, has been done, and not just by me 
(and no harbor freight tools anywhere in sight)

Cheers,
Brad


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> But I'm not sure you can "outfit a shop with some pretty high-end tools" for under $1500 (The cost of a SS contractor's saw)
> - StumpyNubs
> 
> Don t worry, I m sure it can be done, has been done, and not just by me
> ...


Give us a few example of what you mean by "pretty high-end tools" and what you'd expect to pay for them.


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

The cost of the equipment that I was able to get together was about the price of the SS industrial version, a little over $4000.
When I first considered putting together a wood shop, all new equipment was over $20,000.

Another of one of the "more expensive" machines I found, is this unusual shaper, Boeing surplus $700


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## JackDuren (Oct 10, 2015)

I'm confused on how a high end tool or not compares with a SawStop?


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

What I'm finding is that it isn't so much just the big purchase items, but all the smaller things that add up after awhile.

I think a lot of people have forgotten how much all those little things add up to be when you really start from nothing.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> I m confused on how a high end tool or not compares with a SawStop?
> 
> - JackDuren


I wouldn't consider a SawStop contractor's saw to be high end. But their cabinet saw is. At least among machines sold in the USA.


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

A 1959 Powermatic 16" planer in near mint condition, $600-Montana school sale.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> A 1959 Powermatic 16" planer in near mint condition, $600-Montana shool sale.
> 
> - unbob


Nice planer, assuming it needs no repairs, it's not 3-phase, and you can get knives for it. Of course, it cost you more than a third of your $1500 budget


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> Give us a few example of what you mean by "pretty high-end tools" and what you d expect to pay for them.
> - StumpyNubs


Sort of taking this WAY off topic, but since you asked… I'll play along. How about this 3hp Unisaw:










Came with a brand new never used jet-lock fence and rails (shown) as well as a 50" Commercial Biesemeyer fence and rails and commercial Biesemeyer over-arm guard that I haven't put on due to space constraints at the moment. Purchased for $150. Total cost after cleaning it up - $193.34. It was going to go in my father in laws shop, which had 3 phase, but I decided to keep it at my house, so I did have to spend another $170 for the VFD.

How about this South Bend engine lathe:










Again, purchased for $150. Total cost after cleanup - $189.21, and that included a few upgrades as well.

Delta 14" Band Saw:










Purchased for $85, total after restore $112.83. As a side note, I just picked up another one a few weeks ago, again for $85. Although the recent one is in fantastic shape, basically plug and play, with original stand, motor and belt guard - only thing missing is the table alignment pin which can easily be made from an old 5/8" bolt.

I can go on… Delta lathe for $50, Unimat lathe for $20, Delta 18" variable speed C-arm scroll saw for $30, Makita 2030 combo planer/jointer for $300 (one of my more expensive purchases), etc…

Cheers,
Brad


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

> What I m finding is that it isn t so much just the big purchase items, but all the smaller things that add up after awhile.
> 
> I think a lot of people have forgotten how much all those little things add up to be when you really start from nothing.
> 
> ...


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

I paid 250 for my tablesaw and it's absolutely the most accurate tablesaw I've ever owned.Very quite and smooth it also can spin a 12 inch blade and don't take up very much space.

Here's some before and after pics. I like the old machines that I can work on.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I stopped reading at the Unisaw, with brand new fence for $150. I'm not saying you're full of it, but if you think that's a typical price, then we live in different worlds.


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

> A 1959 Powermatic 16" planer in near mint condition, $600-Montana shool sale.
> 
> - unbob
> 
> ...


 No, my budget was just less then the SS ind model, little over $4000. I wouldn't even consider the contractor model at any price above what any contractor saw sells used on CL-too small wimp saw.
I managed to get a lifetime supply of Desposablades with the planer, but did buy two sets of solid knives.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> I stopped reading at the Unisaw, with brand new fence for $150. I m not saying you re full of it, but if you think that s a typical price, then we live in different worlds.
> - StumpyNubs


NOWHERE did I say those are 'typical' prices… but they are out there and can be found if you are persistent. Take a look at some of the stories over at OWWM… Unisaws found at the dump being thrown away, or on the side of the road waiting for trash pickup. People *paying* to haul away their old Delta 12/14 or Powermatic 66. Even this site has plenty of examples.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> No, my budget was just less then the SS ind model, little over $4000. I wouldn t even consider the contractor model.
> 
> - unbob


That makes more sense.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> NOWHERE did I say those are typical prices…
> - MrUnix


Fair enough.


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

> I stopped reading at the Unisaw, with brand new fence for $150. I m not saying you re full of it, but if you think that s a typical price, then we live in different worlds.
> 
> - StumpyNubs


 Sounds to me you have money to spend, or are simply too lazy to actually look. It works like this, you have to look often at CL or other for the good machines are gone within an hour or two. The way it is. If you want to talk planers, you need to know a little bit more then you do.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> I stopped reading at the Unisaw, with brand new fence for $150. I m not saying you re full of it, but if you think that s a typical price, then we live in different worlds.
> 
> - StumpyNubs
> 
> ...


Whether I have money to spend or not is irrelevant. However I do consider my time to be valuable. So that $150 saw isn't really $150 by the time you search for it, buy and transport it, and restore it, now is it? That said, I already conceded his point. So are you just trying to start an argument, or what?


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## JackDuren (Oct 10, 2015)

> I m confused on how a high end tool or not compares with a SawStop?
> 
> - JackDuren
> 
> ...


 SawStop isn't high end….


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> SawStop isn t high end….
> 
> - JackDuren


What consumer level table saw sold in the USA would you consider to be "high end," then?


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

Q: How safe is a sawstop?
A: I bought this big lathe for almost nothin!

So anyway, I think they're pretty darn safe. Sold mine because I almost never use a table saw. Then someone gave me an old Craftsman table saw for free (that I hardly use.) But when I do use it, I wish I had my SS back.


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

I would consider the Nothfield 18" saws to be high end.
Stumpy, your time is worth less then nothing to me, poopy attitude the main problem.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> I would consider the Nothfield 18" saws to be high end.
> Stumpy, your time is worth less then nothing to me, poopy attitude the main problem.
> 
> - unbob


So YOU come on here, and after I make only two comments directed at you, one of which AGREED with you, you immediately insult me by calling me lazy, and when I ask what you're doing, you call my time worthless and then say I am the one with the bad attitude? Got it…

I don't need to add anything further to that. I'll let your behavior above to speak for itself.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

Just a reality check.
How much time does a person put into buying a sawstop before doing so?

I haven't bought one yet, maybe someday I will, 
I have already put hours into watching videos looking at them at shows, 
reading reviews, and I haven't even started looking for the best price or place to buy one.

I thinks it's all pretty relevant when placing value of ones time to find or purchase a saw, whether it's a new SS or a used Craigslist buy.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> Just a reality check.
> How much time does a person put into buying a sawstop before doing so?
> 
> I thinks it s all pretty relevant when placing value of ones time to find or purchase a saw.
> ...


To me, there is a difference between time spent on the laptop in front of the television, looking at saws; and time spent moving and restoring heavy equipment. But if a person ENJOYS the restoration process, then it's recreation all the same.

You make a good point.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> Whether I have money to spend or not is irrelevant. However I do consider my time to be valuable. So that $150 saw isn t really $150 by the time you search for it, buy and transport it, and restore it, now is it?
> - StumpyNubs


Common myth, perpetuated by many. Searching Cl is as easy as doing a quick scan with your morning coffee and checking e-mail. Transport time would be the same if you picked up a new saw at the BORG or any other woodworking store. Delivery is an option, but you can't inspect before being shipped, and if it gets damaged, then you get to play the Grizzly multiple shipment game. As for restoration - there is no reason you have to do a full blown restore. In the case of that Unisaw, I could have easily just popped in some new bearings and belts (about an hour) and put it to work. Ugly machines work just as well as pretty ones, and I have bought other machines that were just plug and play needing nothing. If you do decide to do a full restore, it can easily be done in your spare time when you would have otherwise probably been parked in front of the TV watching re-runs of Seinfeld or something 

But you are correct.. that $150 saw wasn't a $150 saw once done… it required a nice drive out in the country with the dog to pick it up, another $43.34 for some parts, and some spare time away from the TV.

Cheers,
Brad


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> Common myth, perpetuated by many … If you do decide to do a full restore, it can easily be done in your spare time when you would have otherwise probably been parked in front of the TV watching re-runs of Seinfeld or something
> 
> But you are correct.. that $150 saw wasn t a $150 saw once done… it required a nice drive out in the country with the dog to pick it up, another $43.34 for some parts, and some spare time away from the TV.
> 
> ...


You're right. I was looking at it from the perspective of someone who doesn't like working on tools. Some people enjoy it. If it's recreation to that person, and it doesn't take away from paying work time, then it doesn't fall into the "time is money" thing.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> You re right. I was looking at it from the perspective of someone who doesn t like working on tools. Some people enjoy it. If it s recreation to that person, then it doesn t fall into the "time is money" thing.
> - StumpyNubs


Again… you do not have to do a restore or any work if you don't want to… you can absolutely get plug and play machines that require nothing. The Makita 2030 I got needed nothing… I bought it, brought it home, plugged it in and have been using it just the way I got it ever since. Ditto with the PM45 lathe I bought… it had already been restored when I purchased. Same with the Unimat. I found a Millermatic MM210 welder on CL from a guy who bought it, then got transferred out of state, so stored it away. When he came back, he no longer wanted it, so listed it on CL. I was the first person in line. Had never been used (was never even assembled), came with a 40 pound spool of wire and all sorts of other goodies, and cost me roughly 20% of what a new one cost (and it WAS new!).

Cheers,
Brad


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

Stumpy thing says-I don't need to add anything further to that. I'll let your behavior above to speak for itself.

I was only being honest on how I feel about your precious time and your no can do ability, since you brought it up.
By the way, are you still creating saw kick backs? I saw that and thus, enough of you.


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## Momcanfixit (Sep 19, 2012)

Oh my - I was going to post something about my Sawstop, but this thread is starting to sound like dinner with my relatives. Gonna take a pass….


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

> By the way, are you still creating saw kick backs? I saw that and thus, enough of you.
> 
> - unbob


Again, you are going to great lengths to start something. Even making stuff up now. You saw me "creating kickbacks?" What are you even talking about? I have never "created a kickback".

EDIT: You came into the middle of a conversation, misapplied my words and created conflict when I had none with you. You seem to have this strange, twisted view of who I am or what I believe that is 180-degrees from reality. None of what you say below is even close to what I was saying. How can two people have an adult conversation when a person attaches some deeper, nefarious meaning to every comment, based on the conflict he imagines in his head?

How about this. I'll let you win. I'm taking off for the night. Folks like Sandra can see what's going on here, the comments are all there for people to read. This site is PLAGUED with this crap, people who just MUST have conflict. Congratulations. You chased at least two people away. Probably more who saw your nonsense and moved on without a comment. You succeeded in spoiling yet another Lumberjock's thread. You must be very proud.


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

Stumpy, so weak, so helpless, you act like you cant even change a tire on a car.
There are other ways of looking at equipment instead of having to spend the big money on the new stuff from china or where ever. Its true, some mechanical ability is required.
I though your comments about my $600 planer were off, and shows that you know nothing about American industrial machines.
I tend to think you are disrespectful to us that just cant but new. Oh ya! SawSlop came out with contractors model for us poor folk.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> you act like you cant even change a tire on a car.
> - unbob


Not to be pedantic, but while I can change a tire, I prefer to call AAA and let them do it  I got it, might as well use it. But more to the point, lots of folks don't like working on machinery or doing their own repairs… my son is that way and it drives me nuts (funny enough, my daughter is the exact opposite!). I look at it as trying to get the most bang for the buck… for example, while I certainly can afford to pay someone to do a brake job on my car, I would much rather just spend $20 for the pads and do it myself (it's just a 15 minute job). First, I know that the job is done right… and secondly, I would much rather spend the extra $100 or so I saved on a bottle of tequilla, mariachi band and a couple of hookers 

Cheers,
Brad


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

> I would much rather spend the extra $100 or so saved on a bottle of tequilla, mariachi band and a couple of hookers
> 
> Cheers,
> Brad
> ...


hmm, dem der must be sum cheap hookers…. :>/ you find them used on craigslist, hahahahah

(I crack myself up)


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Oh my - I was going to post something about my Sawstop, but this thread is starting to sound like dinner with my relatives. Gonna take a pass….
> 
> - Sandra


Wow, I get along great with my relatives. Sorry to here you can't get alone with yours.


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

> I tend to think you are disrespectful to us that just cant but new.
> - unbob


Huh? Stumpy, like Matthias Wandel, is the freaking MacGyver of woodworking tools. Do you seriously not understand who you're talking to?

unbob - look in the disrespectful mirror.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Matthias Wandel….... that reminds me…....Matt cuts finger on table saw


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## JADobson (Aug 14, 2012)

> I tend to think you are disrespectful to us that just cant but new.
> - unbob
> 
> Huh? Stumpy, like Matthias Wandel, is the freaking MacGyver of woodworking tools. Do you seriously not understand who you re talking to?
> ...


+1

Still waiting for knockknock to recover from the KO delivered by Stumpy


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

> Q: How safe is a sawstop?
> A: I bought this big lathe for almost nothin!
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Thanks Colonel, that literally made me LOL.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Been about as entertaining as Kindergarten Recess antics….

I'll keep MY "Saw-Stop" as is, thank you very much..









Have fun with the usual hijinks …...


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## edapp (Jun 27, 2014)

> Matthias Wandel….... that reminds me…....Matt cuts finger on table saw
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Huh… I wonder if anyone would describe Matthias as anything other than safe, meticulous, experienced.

Not sure how cheap other tools are really got into the argument. I replaced my bargain CL tablesaw with a SS because i could afford to. Thats it. No need to justify it to anyone. Good purchase for me, would not suggest it to ANYONE that cannot afford it (similar to any other luxury purchase. Dont buy a car new if you cant afford to…. etc). The used market has its place in life for everyone.


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## gargey (Apr 11, 2016)

It really is quite silly to use atypically low "great find" prices as the benchmark for anything. The clearing price where there actually is liquidity (buying or selling transactions can be made without undue delay) makes much more sense.

Otherwise, you're baking in the expectation that one should wait and wait some unknown amount of time until a poor uninformed seller materializes to be taken advantage of. Why impute that burden onto someone else?

There is nothing more precious than time. - Steve Jobs

I gotta go to the bathroom. - Gargey


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

Gentle Reminder…
http://lumberjocks.com/CricketWalker/blog/42535

In this community members are expected to treat each other with respect at all times.

There will always be disagreements and fusses between members. It is simply human nature. We truly encourage members to discuss and openly share their thoughts on a topic. It is how we all learn and life would be pretty boring if we all felt the same way.

That being said, this is not grade school. We don't gang up in little groups to take sides or encourage others to do the same.

If you were at a local get together and got into a disagreement with someone, I am guessing you would take it outside instead of ruining the party for everyone. I expect the same here.

If you are not able to discuss a topic respectfully then you need to remove yourself from the topic. If you are unable to discuss a topic with a specific member then you need to choose to ignore that member or take the discussion off the boards. If you are unable to do either of these things, I will help you to do so.

- Cricket


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## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

I believe an objective analysis would find more TS injuries caused by kick back than direct contact with the blade. However, kickback injuries are most often less severe.

That said, SS also has a very nice riving knife, fence and blade guard set up…. The riving knife and fence (if properly aligned) will help prevent kickback. And since the blade guard is very functional, it is less likely that the operator will remove it.

For the traditional TS configuration, SS is the safest thing out there….

For larger scale commercial shops that can afford it, the traditional TS is usually replaced by a "beam saw" (also called a panel saw) for cutting panels to size and the operator is no where near the shrouded blade and the panels are mechanically gripped and positioned. For ripping lumber, commercial shops will either use a "gang rip saw" with the blade overhead and track feed underneath, or a TS set up with a power feeder. Both of these arrangements keep the operator well clear of the blade and feed the stock without human hands.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> I believe an objective analysis would find more TS injuries caused by kick back than direct contact with the blade. However, kickback injuries are most often less severe.
> 
> That said, SS also has a very nice riving knife, fence and blade guard set up…. The riving knife and fence (if properly aligned) will help prevent kickback. And since the blade guard is very functional, it is less likely that the operator will remove it.
> 
> ...


Yup, SS makes it easy to use the riving knife or blade guard, the anti-kick back pawls are pretty easy to use as well, they can be locked up out of the path if needed. It is far better than my POS R4512. When trimming rough sawn lumber I sometimes have long tapered pieces that start to push on the left pawl. On the SS I can reach over and click it up, on my Ridgid I had to hold it up until it cleared it. Not Safe.


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## MikeDilday (Feb 21, 2017)

I believe it is reliable enough to decrease my risks to an acceptable level. I own the Professional Cabinet Saw and besides the safety it is one great saw.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

GEEZ! I swear that yesterday's Total Eclipse caused this tread to self destruct! And BESIDES THAT, I bet it is also those aliens' fault on Planet "X", at 3 o-clock in the image, and the fact that Planet "X" can only be seen during an eclipse!...


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I have to admit, after reading 100s of SS threads that went off the rails, this one has to be in the top 5 for how far off the rails. There will come a day when we can mention SS and not get sidetracked by, well, sidetracked.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Wow! This thread really went sideways. I'm sorry I brought it up. I promise I will never mention the S word again. Reminds me of the on-going battle between the President and the media.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

I mounted casters *directly* to my saw using bolts. I used these Harbor 
Freight casters rated at 350 lbs (https://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-rubber-heavy-duty-swivel-caster-61846.html) which are a LOT cheaper than many other equivalent casters. My saw is a Hammer K3 winner 48×48 that weighs 800 lbs. It rolls nicely but is heavy requiring a hefty nudge with the hip to get it moving. No locks needed. I used an auto jack to tilt it up enough to crawl beneath it to drill the bolt holes and carefully blocked it up using pieces of 6×6 wood for safety. Kept a friend standing by.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Wow! This thread really went sideways. I m sorry I brought it up. I promise I will never mention the S word again. Reminds me of the on-going battle between the President and the media.
> 
> - MrRon


I've been wondering why you brought it up in the first place since you have no intentions of buying one.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Wow! This thread really went sideways. I m sorry I brought it up. I promise I will never mention the S word again. Reminds me of the on-going battle between the President and the media.
> 
> - MrRon


I won't take that bait!


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## Gilley23 (May 9, 2017)

You, Sir, are a complete troll with nothing better to do with your time than to stir the pot in a failed self-serving attempt to boost yourself up. You and the like are the reason that so many good people leave fine forums such as these, to get away from the arrogance and high school drama.

Bless your heart.



> Stumpy, so weak, so helpless, you act like you cant even change a tire on a car.
> There are other ways of looking at equipment instead of having to spend the big money on the new stuff from china or where ever. Its true, some mechanical ability is required.
> I though your comments about my $600 planer were off, and shows that you know nothing about American industrial machines.
> I tend to think you are disrespectful to us that just cant but new. Oh ya! SawSlop came out with contractors model for us poor folk.
> ...


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

I can only speak for myself, but I didn't get into woodworking to refurbish old tools. That's fine for those that are inclined to do so, but I'll save up and buy new after I have decided what I want.

While this thread has had its detractors, I can honestly say that it has swayed me from not wanting to get a SS to thinking I will save up and get one in the next year. My initial reluctance is that I didn't want to buy an expensive SS JUST for the safety feature. I wanted a solid TS and I've now come to the conclusion that I can have both, so why not?


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

Sighs…

This thread is closed.


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