# I was really exited, but.....



## Steelwinky (Jan 14, 2007)

"You are not allowed to vote unless you have at least one project posted on the LumberJocks." That's the rule.

I wanted to view the new projects and vote on one, but haven't listed a project yet. What a crying shame, is this to keep you guys from encouraging a bunch of people to set up an account and vote for your project?


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## Obi (Oct 19, 2006)

No. It's so you have to subject yourself to the humility of realizing that your project just might suck, and only then can you vote. I'm just guessing. Probably so you don't have aunt Bessie the Seamstress voting for something when she wouldnt know the difference between Solid Oak and Vinyl Covered Particle Board.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

I guess we'll be looking for some of your work soon. 
Looking forward to seeing what woodworking you do.

(that would be my guess as well-to keep the contest as "honest" as possible


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## Steelwinky (Jan 14, 2007)

I suppose that if someone wanted to solicit illegal votes, that a voter could just submit a false project to gain voting rights. So the whole point of not letting someone vote because of no submitted projects is just a formality. I could enter any pic I got off the internet and claim it as my project if I really wanted to vote for a particualr person.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

yup you could… there's always a way.


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## Don (Dec 18, 2006)

But that certainly would not be in the spirit of the LumberJocks membership.


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## 2 (Feb 26, 2006)

Everybody who remembers our Summer contest will understand my decision. Yes, it is also the protection rule (it is very obvious if someone posts a fake project) but more importantly *the voting right is a reward to those LumberJocks who decided to share their work with others*. Hope you understand my reasons.


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## Steelwinky (Jan 14, 2007)

Don, I agree that it wouldn't be in the spirit, but I was just trying to make a point. But I am curious how it is easy to tell if someone posts a fake project? If I finish a project and post it, and it is very nice, will it be assumed that it is a fake? I don't know, and don't worry I won't vote. So what happened with the summer contest? Was the constest compromised by a bad Lumberjock?"


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## scottb (Jul 21, 2006)

From what I remember, the voting was open during the submision process, and we could rank projects as high or low as we wanted to help keep our average score as high as possible. I don't think it was abused much if at all, but in hindsight the opportunity was there. The voting on this contest seems to be much fairer.

We're all a friendly bunch, and I like to think chivalrous to boot. We're all trying to encourage ourselves to be better woodworkers (and people) so falsifying an entry just for a couple bucks and a magazine subscription shouldn't even enter into it. If that's what someone chooses to do, so be it, for what little gain that brings them. We're not vying for a million dollars or a presidential election or something, then things could get ugly.

We understand your point, and it is a valid one… but I think it's best not to tell someone how we could catch them if they try to get away with something wrong, may just encourage more devious behavior, don't you think?

I'm with you Martin.


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

Steelwinky: The first contest had as a scoring the total points divided by the number of times that project was voited on, or an average score. So if someone voted 10 and someone else voted 1 then the average was 5.5. If the person who voted 1 did not vote then the average was 10. which was the total points (10) divided by the number of people voting (1). What happened was some people registered and voted 10 for 1 project and a 1 on another. This was a way of lowering average points on some items, and railing another.

Martin saw that it was an obvious thing. It was a new registration and two quick votes and never seen again. This was not the way that LumberJocks want to conduct business. We are all sharing in notes. messages, and help to other Lumberjocks. The contest is a way of letting the participants of this web site show their appreciation of the other members projects.

We are not here to get rich except in the knowledge that we share between Nubies and Pros and everyone elso along that path. Some people here are professionals (making a living maybe miserly, but working full time) others are trying to see which end of a chisel to hold. I'm retired and starting to work at this process semi fulltime, but not necessarly wanting or needing to sell anything.

We welcome you to our fold.

I'm not sure but I think you can still post a project and then vote. I havent seen any of the rules that state that only participants who had posted projects before the contest entry period ended could vote. We welcome your project and we welcome your vote. If it doesn't work in this contest at least you will be arround for the next one.


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## scottb (Jul 21, 2006)

Well said Karson… it's only by sharing what we know that we can all benefit. Hoarding secrets might not help out the other guy, and give ourselves a temporary advantage, but if the student can't surpass the teacher, then how can we expect to learn anything in return?


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## TheKiltedWoodworker (Dec 21, 2006)

I certainly will never be accused of hoarding secrets. Heck, sometimes I can't seem to shut up.

I do hoard wood, though. I'm a wood hoarder.


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

Dear Red:

Who is the biggest hoarder. I've got between 8-10,000 BD ft of lumber. What do you got?

There is/was a newsman on one of the 60 min type of shows and he was a wood horder. He was the front cover of one of the woodworking magazines. His statement was that he never saw anything made that was more beautiful than a board. He'd go down into his wood storage room and just look at the lumber.

Karson


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## dennis (Aug 3, 2006)

I vote we ban Karson from the site untell he gets down to 500 board feet like the rest of us…its for his own good. I'll even take it off his hands at the price he paid for it! See how much we love you Karson.


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## 2 (Feb 26, 2006)

Thanks for good input.

First, I'd like to say that it was very challenging to turn my dream of running pure online Woodworking contest with no designated jury of experts into reality.

I'm really confident about the current voting process and rules. Why? Because they emerged from the open discussion after the Summer Contest. Everybody could state his/her opinion and offer the solution.

We agreed that there was a problem with the ability to give other entries 1star rating to drag them down. This is solved - now you are only listing your top five entries so *you cannot drag down the others*.

We agreed that there were some strange sign-ups and quick strange votes. This is not the case anymore because only the LumberJocks that already shared their work with others have the voting right. Yes, this can be faked too but I hope everybody agrees with me that it is much harder to do and it can be easily spotted. And then we can simply say such a LumberJock wannabe bye-bye. I'm sure nobody experiencing the atmosphere here would even think about posting some fake projects.

We agreed that it was not very fair that you could rate projects during the whole entry period. This is also solved - *we had entry period and now we have voting period* (plus you are not able to see the results until the voting is finished). It is more like a woodworking show now - I think this was originally Karson's idea.

That's something that is great about us - when we see some problems we can discuss them and make things better. And that makes me feel good 

Plus I'm going to repeat myself again - with this voting rules and process *I really see the voting right as a reward to those LumberJocks who decided to share their work with others*. IMO that's very important.

And yes, when you post your project even during the voting time you'll be able to vote. If you post your project(s) later you will be able to participate in the Summer Awards voting. So nobody is rejected in advance.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

Steelwinky, I'm assuming that the reason for your message is that you WANT to vote on the beautiful pieces of woodworking but haven't, for whatever reasons, posted a project yet. That would be disappointing, if you'd been looking forward to the contest since you joined.

I hope this disappointment doesn't stop you from participating in L.J., if only it is to view the projects posted and read the tons of information the woodworkers have to share.

I hope that we do see some of your projects in the future (if not soon) and that you will be excited about voting in the next contest if you aren't able to vote yet in this one.


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## TheKiltedWoodworker (Dec 21, 2006)

Martin,

Do you mean to say, in your second to last paragraph, that my ability to vote on the Lumberjocks contest is not a God-given inalienable right, but a PRIVILEGE I've earned by posting a project?

We need more people like you, man.


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## Steelwinky (Jan 14, 2007)

Now that Ethan has cleared this up I feel better.


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## 2 (Feb 26, 2006)

Thanks Ethan.. I mean it exactly like you said.


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## TheKiltedWoodworker (Dec 21, 2006)

I didn't get into technical writing for nothing, Martin…

And glad I could help, Steelwinky!


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## Obi (Oct 19, 2006)

I took "Business Letter Writing" in college, and they would have insisted that we started the blog off with "Dear Sirs,". See, I took this college coarse in 1981 before "political correctness" was ever considered. Now, I'm sure, we'd have to start the letter/blog "Dear Non-sexual Generic Persons,"...


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