# Made in America



## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

http://cdnapi.kaltura.com/index.php/kwidget/wid/0_04vzdsr5/uiconf_id/5590821


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

y


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

This is a FANTASTIC report. I wonder if there are any details, as in, even though the final price is 1% more, are they able to keep pretty much similar profit margins as competitors buying material from overseas?

I wonder what the Lennar's, DR Horton's, KB's out there think of this.

Thanks for posting.


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

I saw this a couple of days ago.
Great report
Thanks for posting it Topamax.


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

Everyone should bookmark this website for reference when they need to buy something

http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/


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## saddletramp (Mar 6, 2011)

Cool!! Now they need to put together a list for us consumers of consumer products that are made in America with American parts and labor so that all of us can be better shoppers (and Americans).


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Need to send this to Washington. I person in particular.
Bill


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## mtenterprises (Jan 10, 2011)

DAMN STRAIGHT !!!!! To all the comments
MIKE


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## Fejus (Sep 27, 2011)

GREAT Video!


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## davidswoodwrks (Aug 14, 2010)

Awesome report thanks for sharing!


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Great find Topa! Thanks!


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

yahuu Topa now you are famerous … the ladies wants you…. LOL

Dennis


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Handystanley made the same post a while back. It is a great story -
The link below is the pdf file of the suppliers for the house from ABC News.

http://abcnews.go.com/images/Business/Made%20in%20America%20List.pdf


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## Chipy (Apr 20, 2011)

How about a list of American wood working tools and sundries.We could put it together right here on Lumber Jocks.We could have a running list we all could add to.When you buy a wood working product check to see were it is made and if it is made in America and you can verifi it post it to the list.I got the first one, Lee Craft 0 clearance inserts, great product well made about $25 made right Georgia.


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

Chipy,

Great idea. That could be a forum all on it's own. I wouldn't want to exclude other countries with good stuff, so I would entitle it 
*"NOT MADE IN CHINA"*

My first one on the list would be Klein hand tools….......Sold in Home Depot, made in the USA


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## degoose (Mar 20, 2009)

Hope you don't mind.. I reposted the embedded version…


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## Chipy (Apr 20, 2011)

jim C Thanks, see you have tweaked the idea already.Thanks Topa, this is your thread and your a more senior member than I lets talk to the powers that be and start a new forum!!!!!


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## usnret (Jul 14, 2011)

Thanks Topa, now If I could just buy American power tools, the ordeal is Delta is made in the USA, but owned by the Chinese.


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## 308Gap (Mar 6, 2010)

I've been watching this show for awhile now, it's really hard to find some of the things we buy. The biggest item I tell my friends is their car or truck, and then home appliances. Just because you car was assembled in America doesn't mean the profits stay here. My neighbor is retired navy and complains about the economy all the time and he drives a mitsubishi his wife has a toyota , maybe his kids can get volkswagons just to round it out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi

Buy American it matters. Thanks Topamax


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## usnret (Jul 14, 2011)

The only vehicles that are actually made in the USA are foreign owned. The big 3 get most of their parts from Canada and Mexico and then assemble the vehicle in the US. There are more foreign cars made in the US than American cars. Read the sticker and the fine print says final assembly point.


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## longgone (May 5, 2009)

*Lumberjocks needs to create a tab on this website that will provide links to American made woodworking tools and products. I know we all would greatly appreciate it and would certainly use it for purchases.*


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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)

Greg - Why? It would be no good to me or any of the LJs living outside of the US. You have some great tools and toolmakers, but this is a GLOBAL site that was started by Martin who I believe lives in Czechoslovakia.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

This is amazing, *if true*. I know that many years ago there was only one roofing nail manf. in the USA. Contractors had a real search problem when doing defense work before the INTERNET. Required to document that all materials were made in America for defense contract$.


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## ScottN (Jan 24, 2011)

I try to buy everything "made in USA". I haven't step foot in Harbor freight in over 10 years.

Its not only the Government and wall streets fault our economy is the way it is. Its everyone's.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Back in the 80s I was wondering how long we could export jobs instead of products. Now we know ;-((


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

I wonder what would happen if Canada turned off the oil tap ?

How would you all drive to work ?

having said that………cant blame anyone for buying goods made on their own soil : ))


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

Brit,
That is my concern.


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## SouthpawCA (Jul 19, 2009)

I have friends who live in Canada and our motto is Made in North America.


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## Kentuk55 (Sep 21, 2010)

very good ya'll…...... here is another one to add: http://madeinusaforever.com/


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Maybe be a GLOBAL site, but it is in English and definitely oriented towards the American market. Wonder why that decision was made? ;-))


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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)

*Topa* - Personally, I don't think the site is oriented towards the American market. If you stripped all of the content out of LJs, there would be nothing to suggest it was an American site. True, the majority of the members are from North America and therefore much of the content reflects that, but the site itself isn't. The reason that most of the members are from North America is probably because there are more woodworkers in North America than any other country. The reason for that is probably because it is one of the few countries left where there is still reasonable access to a variety of hard woods at reasonable prices and your toolmakers and woodworking retailers are currently the best in the world. The site is in English simply because most people who live in countries where English isn't their first language, speak English better than we do.

Topa, I'm not trying to pick a fight here. I agree that if you live in North America, then you should buy American. Why the hell wouldn't you? I just didn't agree with Greg's proposal.


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

I guess I have to chime in here also, in sync with a few comments above that have touched on the distinction between "America", "North America", "USA", and "Canada" which is where I, and MANY other LJ'ers also live.

First off I basically agree with buying ANY items that help create Jobs in "NORTH AMERICA", BUT I think there are a few Geographical Errors floating around.

I'm somewhat surprised that ABC News being a "Reputable News Station" (I'm assuming that, as it's not a News station I watch) would use the term "Made In America" when I believe it was a news article about "Made In USA". One guy had a sign that got that correct.

So. Bottom Line is "America" is a "Continent" consisting of "North America and "South America".

"North America" is "Canada" and the "United States Of America" or "USA" if you prefer. It also includes "Alaska", and "Mexico" as well as a few "Assorted Islands" here and there.

"South America" is ….well ….. "South America". We all know what and where it is.

Perhaps it's our Basic Education and what we've always "Heard". In Canada we don't call the USA…"America" it's the USA, or usually The United States or just The States.

I can't speak for every Canadian on here, but Made in Canada OR the USA would be our first preference IF in fact the "Item" is still made in North America.

One company that immediately comes to mind is Lee Valley. A Canadian Company. That I believe a Great Number of us hold in High Esteem.

Yes! Some of their products come from outside North America and a LOT of their products come from the USA. Their Catalogues usually identify the "Place Of Origin". "Veritas" is their Design and Manufacturing Division. Actually I believe they are now known as "Lee Valley-Veritas".

Yes! As also mentioned this IS a GLOBAL SITE and I would not be in favour of any change, modification or alteration to that GLOBAL Aspect.

*That's pretty well it other than to say this is NOT intended to Insult or Chastise the USA or any of the Members here wherever they may live. It's MY Opinion ONLY as are the Comments above. *

*This is an Excellent Post for a number of reasons. Thank You for Posting this Topamax!!!*

*Regards To All: Rick*


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

Mr. Brit:

*"Personally, I don't think the site is oriented towards the American market. If you stripped all of the content out of LJs, there would be nothing to suggest it was an American site. True, the majority of the members are from North America and therefore much of the content reflects that, but the site itself isn't."*

Good point. I've always looked at the Site as being "North American" probably because of most of the"Visible Content", but you're in Fact Correct. It isn't.


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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)

I have to confess I learnt something from Rick's geography lesson. If you will allow me, I'll add to the lesson.

United Kingdom = England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland
Great Britain = England, Scotland and Wales
Britain = England and Wales

Now back to the topic:

I think on the face of it buying goods from your country of origin is a great ideal, but how realistic is it in practice nowadays? In the video, they managed to find all the components for the house build in North America, but would the same be true for every other product we buy?

There are many factors that influence the purchases we make as woodworkers. Factors such as personal taste, peer pressure, quality, design, price, durability, ease of use, etc. To give you an example, if I only wanted to buy hand planes made in the United Kingdom, I would have to buy from Clifton. They make good planes, but IMO they are too damn heavy. However, do you know what the real reason I don't buy Clifton planes is? It is because they're green and I don't like green. Go figure.

What about people who are just getting into woodowrking or who do not have a lot of spare cash, do you or I have the right to tell them not to buy a Wood River or a Quangsheng plane because it is made in China?

How many woodworkers in North America own a Bad Axe or Lie Neilsen back saw or handsaw, the main component of which is Swedish steel? If you're in the market for a good hand cut rasp, which one is at the top of your list - Nicholson (now made in Brazil), Gramercy (made in Pakistan) or Auriou (Made in France)? Is anyone making hand cut rasps in North America anymore? So what do you do when you need one? If you want a good set of new pig stickers (mortise chisels), you have to buy them from Tools for Working Wood because they are the only place in North America that sells them, but they are in fact made in England by Ray Iles. Would you not buy them because they were made in England?

Sorry for going on but this is an interesting subject (thanks Topa). I'm just saying that buying only from your country of origin isn't that easy to do in practice no matter where you live.


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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)

Another thing to consider is that if everyone in North America (or any other country) advocated and practiced only buying goods that were made in North America, wouldn't it be grossly hypocritical to then try to export your goods to other nations? True, jobs would be created if you bought North American goods, but how many would be lost if you no longer exported those goods or imported goods from other nations?


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

I am sorry, but all this talk about NOT buying American because it would start a trade war, reminds me of the Texas Governor's race back in 1990. Good ol' boy Clayton Williams made a verbal gaff that, IMO, offers an analogy of the Free Trade vs Isolationism argument.

Clayton Williams comment during his campaign joked/likened Texas weather to rape:

*"If it's inevitable, just relax and enjoy it."*

I think this applies very closely to the financial/job "rape" of America by the rich 1% and corporate crowd. America has been and is being raped and we are supposed to just relax and enjoy it ?


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

My comment was pointed to access to and participation of the largest economic engine in the world being primary factor in the success of this site. Some of our states rank in the top 10 largest economies in the world.

Geography be what it is, but when the immigrants of the world say they want to come to "America", they are not talking about Canada, Mexico or South America.


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

Oh Boy,
Let's not turn this into another "Do we need a new President?" forum.

Let's trade ideas on where, what alternatives to purchasing American products.


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## BuyoMasilla (Jun 5, 2011)

Wow…......thanks for the post, very interesting as well as the ensuing commentaries.

After reading through them and feeling there is truth and value in most of them I'm left feeling a bit like Delmar from "Oh Brother Where Are Thou" and will quote him at this time:

"OK…......I'm with you fellas."


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Jim, why on earth do YOU want to argue? I suppose you don't see that all the jobs that have left the USA are a result of the politics of BIG BUSINESS and the Congress they can buy?


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

10-4 Topa, on why come to the United States of America in the first place.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

More reason to consider "Buy in America" practices. While I do NOT advocate a complete (100%) Made in America policy, I DO think that each consumer needs to KNOW WHERE THEIR GOODS COME FROM and make adjustments to balance that trade relationship accordingly.










V Click below image for complete chart V


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## usnret (Jul 14, 2011)

Up until the '70s Chicago was the industrial capital of the world. Now look at Chicago, the steel mills are almost all closed. Most manufacturing has been moved overseas. The US lost its edge when we decided it was more important to make billions rather than millions. How much money does one person need. 
Not everyhting you buy will be 100% American, some of the raw materials will have to be imported, that is just a fact of industrialism. We dont have all the natural resources needed to meet the manufacturing needs.
A perfect example is in the middle east one of the largest imports is sand, thats right sand. You would think they have plenty over there since its al desert, well the sand over there is not of a high enough quality to make concrete for building. 
You will find it ALMOST impossible to buy 100% American made, some items just are not produced here.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Most of my ancestors were Englishman after they got here. Hans Michael, as a single man of age, even had to swear allegiance to the King in September of 1728 because there were too many Germans coming into PA. They weren't too worried about the married guys for some reason. We were definitely Americans after the War ;-))


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## vipond33 (Jul 25, 2011)

*"access to and participation of the largest economic engine in the world being primary factor in the success of this site".

"when the immigrants of the world say they want to come to "America", they are not talking about Canada"*

I beg to differ on these points.

The success of this site has nothing to do with the first statement. The success of this site has to do with the generous nature of woodworkers in general, from all over the world. You outnumber us for reasons that Brit and Rick have made clear, but there is certainly no virtue in being an "American".

I try to buy quality, wherever it is made. Quality rewards itself, no matter the country, and it always benefits us too.

As to the second point, come to Toronto, where I live, and take a look around.
This is from the City of Toronto's website:

"Diversity of race, religion and lifestyle help define and set Toronto apart from other world cities. Toronto is home to virtually all of the world's culture groups and is the city where more than 100 languages and dialects are spoken.

Between 2001 and 2005, the Toronto CMA attracted an average of 107,000 international immigrants each year, The City of Toronto welcomed two thirds (69,000). As well, 10,738 foreign students chose to study in Toronto originating from countries including South Korea, Japan, China and India.

Almost three-quarters of Torontonians aged 15 or older have direct ties to immigration. About one-half (52%) are themselves immigrants while another 22% are 2nd generation immigrants with at least one parent born outside of Canada. The remaining 26% of the Toronto population (aged 15 or older) is comprised of individuals who were born in Canada to two Canadian-born parents".

This is from a country 1/10th the size of the USA. Scale it up.

The greed, selfishness and mean spirited attitude of your 1% and politicians have painted you into a corner that you may never recover from. Unfortunately, you will take everyone with you.
Buying "Made In America" may help for a while but it is not the answer.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

There is little doubt the leeches have nearly bled us, U.S., dry ;-((


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

…...................all the jobs that have left the USA are a result of the politics of BIG BUSINESS and the Congress they can buy?

And here I thought that it also resulted from the high cost of doing business in the U.S. Things like expensive labor and the cost of complying with government regulation.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

It has more to do with the wide open market access we gave and give the whole wide world.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Sawkerf: And here I thought that it also resulted from the high cost of doing business in the U.S. Things like expensive labor and the cost of complying with government regulation.

Uh… the high costs come from the unlimited CEO (one person) compensation packages in the HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of DOLLARS PER YEAR, not the cost of real labor (thousands or TENS of thousands of employees). Doah!


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

Mike -
So if the CEO's didn't make those "hundreds of millions of dollars per year", all would be well? You gotta be kidding. Executive compensation is certainly high - even exorbitant in some cases - but it pales when compared to labor and regulatory compliance costs.

I almost envy you, man. Your world is such a simple place. - lol


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Sawkerf: I almost envy you, man. Your world is such a simple place. - lol

So YOU justify HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS IN COMPENSATION FOR ONE CEO? You really are a piece of cake. No laughing here, just tears for you…

NO man can work THAT hard to earn hundreds of millions PER year. Especially when you bitch about "the price of labor". You have to be out of your mind… Just sayin'...


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

I didn't even try to justify that level of compensation. You need to read the part where I said that the reasons that jobs have been leaving the U.S. involve much more than just CEO pay.


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## drfunk (Jan 26, 2011)

In Germany they pay high wages and have to comply with even more restrictive government regulations and they are doing pretty darn well right now compared to the US - despite their lack of natural resources. Care to explain that? (Hint - It's related to CEO pay.)


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

*"Made In America" ..........You Say? Good By Me!!**
*
*

*BUT* ....... I think "SOMEONE" Isn't Getting The Message!! Perhaps the Last Person you might expect!!

*"We've got Folks in America that are driving Kias and Hyundais's . I want to see Folks in Korea driving Fords and Chryslers and Chevys."* (Guess Who?)

(NY POST) "Barnstorming through the Heartland to Boost US JOBS in a Taxpayer Financed Luxury Bus the Government had Cutom Built at a Cost of …...*1.1 Million Dollars x's 2 (They Bought 2 of them) = 2.2 Million Dollars!!

*WOW!! That's a lot of Bucks, especially for a Bus that looks like an Oversized Coroners Van!*

They were bought through the "Secret Service". *"Its our most Luxurious Model VIP H3-45. The same one we've sold to a quite a few Rock Stars"* said the Spokesperson from Provost Coach Works in …...(Ready For This?) *Quebec, CANADA!!! *

To be Fair though….. Hemphill (Wrong Spelling) Brothers Coaches in Tennessee installed the Interior Upgrades for about 1/2 of the cost. *They refused comment to the NY Post. *

I guess there aren't any "Bus or Coach Works" in the USA that could have built the Main Body. Which I *PERSONALLY think is a CROCK!!! *

*Look at this THING!!*










Something wrong with a little *Flag Waving or USA or whatever Painted on IT!* Or is it a "Secret Service" idea so it won't be recognized???? I mean….*Look at Paulins, compared to Mr. Obama's.*










Speaking of the *Secret Service…*I wonder if I'll get in trouble for Posting this Picture that I UHMMM? *Grabbed? from "Another Site."*










*Oh Well. The BOSS looks happy with it and on behalf of the "Canadian Economy", thank you for Contributing to Our Job Creation Efforts. Much Appreciated!!*


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Well Rick,
It sure sounds like AT LEAST OBAMA is saving taxpayer money, *UNLIKE BUSH* who campaigned using the 747 Air Force One!



















Original Source
President Bush is using Air Force One for re-election travel more heavily than any predecessor, wringing maximum political mileage from a perk of office paid for by taxpayers. The 68,000 miles Bush has logged this year on Air Force One include five trips to Pennsylvania. ...the campaign must only pay the government the equivalent of a comparable first-class fare for each political traveler on each leg, Federal Election Commission guidelines say. Usually, that means paying a few hundred or a few thousand dollars for the president and a handful of aides. It's a minuscule sum, compared to the *$56,800-per-hour the Air Force estimates it costs to run Air Force One.*

Original Source
WASHINGTON - Bankrolled almost entirely by taxpayers, President Bush is roaming far and wide on Air Force One to help Republicans retain control of Congress and capture statehouse contests in high-stakes midterm elections.

When Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, first lady Laura Bush or any federal official helps a candidate, Federal Election Commission guidelines say the campaign must reimburse the government only the equivalent of a first-class fare for each political traveler on each leg of the trip. Typically, that means paying a few hundred or at most a few thousand dollars to cover the president and a couple of aides from the White House Office of Political Affairs.

Pete Sepp, spokesman for the National Taxpayers Union, a taxpayers advocacy organization, suggested at least requiring campaigns to cover the *actual cost of fueling and providing a crew to Air Force One, which runs to tens of thousands of dollars each hour for the specially retrofitted Boeing 747-200B Bush usually uses.*

*Travel expected to increase*
All this to-and-fro presidential politicking is only expected to increase as November draws closer. And it is the taxpayers, not the campaigns or political parties, who foot most of the travel bill.


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

11
Obama's Use of Air Force One

This is from Mark Knoller of CBS. The pilots and crew of Air Force One are flying more hours than a rookie on a beer run. They are tired of it too, and are adding more crew to Air Force-1, - I know this for a fact because I'm one of the instructors that trains the crews. Our company (Atlas Air) has had the Air Force-1 and E-4 contract for over two years and I've been doing it for about 8 months now.
Last year (2010) Obama flew in Air Force One 172 times, almost every other day.
White House officials have been telling reporters in recent days that the Democrat doesn't intend to hang around the White House quite so much in 2011. They explain he wants to get out more around the country because, as everyone knows, that midterm election shellacking on Nov. 2 had nothing to do with his health care bill, over-spending or other policies, and everything to do with Obama's not adequately explaining himself to his countrymen and women.
And with only 673 days remaining in Obama's never ending presidential campaign, the incumbent's travel pace will not likely slacken.
At an Air Force-estimated cost of $181,757 per flight HOUR (not to mention the additional travel costs of Marine One, Secret Service, logistics and local police overtime), that's a lot of frequent flier dollars going into Obama's carbon footprint.
We are privy to some of these numbers thanks to CBS' Mark Knoller, a bearded national treasure trove of presidential stats. According to Knoller's copious notes, during the last year, Obama made 65 domestic trips over 104 days, and six trips to eight countries over 22 days. Not counting six vacation trips over 32 days.
He took 196 helicopter trips, signed 203 pieces of legislation and squeezed in 29 rounds of left-handed golf.
Obama last year gave 491 speeches, remarks or statements. That's more talking than goes on in some entire families, at least from fatherly mouths.
In fact, even including the 24 days of 2010 that we never saw Obama in public, his speaking works out to about one official utterance every 11 waking hours. Aides indicate the "Real Good Talker" believes we need more.
Related: Obama spends nearly half his presidency outside Washington , plans to travel more
Related: Vacationer-in-Chief Spends $1.75 Million to Visit Hawaiian Chums
Obama has spent over $100 million taxpayer dollars flying around in Air Force One, and probably another $100 million on his entourage. Obama is just another tin-pot dictator living lavishly at the expense of his subjects.
And we seniors have to "tighten our belts" because we aren't getting a COLA again this year… and none last year!
THANKS TO ALL WHO HELPED PUT THIS GREEDY WINDBAG IN OFFICE!!
BE MORE CAREFUL NEXT TIME!!


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

Advertisements

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When even Old Glory is made in China

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.By Leita Walker, Special to The Christian Science Monitor / July 1, 2003

Thirteen stripes, 50 stars, and a tiny, often unnoticed label: Made in China.

Thank heavens Betsy Ross isn't here to see it.

More than 200 years ago, the Philadelphia seamstress helped create the first American flag. Legend says she impressed Gen. George Washington by fashioning a five-pointed star with a single snip of her scissors.

Today Old Glory, like most products, has gone global. And as the flag-waving season gets under way, consumers might expect some discussion about country of origin.

Rest assured, the vast majority of American flags are still made in the good old USA. But after Sept. 11, 2001, when feelings of patriotism caused demand for flags to skyrocket, foreign manufacturers saw opportunity. Appealing to price-conscious shoppers, they outfitted thousands with hand-held flags.

The United States imported $7.9 million worth of American flags in 2002, according to the Census Bureau. Some of those flags have left consumers baffled.

"We've actually gotten questions from people who had 53-star flags … and they wondered if there was a special significance to that," says Joyce Doody, director of membership services at the National Flag Foundation, a patriotic education association in Pittsburgh. "We presume that they were made in another country."

Most imported flags come from China - about $5 million worth last year - but Taiwan and Korea have also made hundreds of thousands in recent years, according to data from the US Department of Commerce, the US Treasury, and the US International Trade Commission.

Shanghai Flag & Tent Works, for example, exported about $1 million worth of merchandise to the United States last year, with American flags accounting for about 80 percent of the total, says Zheng Banglin, general manager for the firm, which claims to control about one-third of the Chinese-made flag market in the US.

That's not a huge amount considering American companies already turn out more than 100 million flags of all types each year. Probably less than 5 percent of American flags sold are made overseas, says Tibor Egervary, director of sales and marketing for the Valley Forge Flag Co., in Womelsdorf, Pa. The company is one of the top providers of flag products to the US government.

Yet Chinese-made American flags account for about 20 percent of American flags sold at the United States Flag Store, says Kevin Hickey, vice president of marketing for its parent company, Online Stores Inc. The United States Flag Store (www.united-states-flag.com) does about $5 million worth of business annually.

The company sells thousands of the small, vinyl flags so ubiquitous at parades and on cars. Nearly all are made overseas: The Chinese do a better job with small flags, Mr. Hickey says, while those made in America tend to fall apart.


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

DONATE TO FFF

What's More American Than an American Flag Made in China?
by Lois Kaneshiki, Posted January 2, 2008

In case you haven't heard, many states are passing laws that make it illegal to sell American flags that were not made in the United States. I can hear the sound of labor unions cheering the deed as I write this. However, if America wishes to remain the great nation she is, she should celebrate American flags made in China and, for that matter, anything else foreigners make available to Americans at dirt-cheap prices.

I have a vivid memory of attending the local circus a few years ago with my kids. A vendor was selling small American flags for $1. An older man yelled at the vendor, "Why aren't these flags made in America?!" Printed on the flags was the familiar, all-American phrase "Made in China."

While American companies are busy increasing the technological capacity of the world through computers, iPhones, communications systems, and robotics, the Chinese are making flags, cheap toys, and other inexpensive goods that Americans purchase. The savings Americans realize from these purchases, estimated at more than $1,000 per year just from shopping at Wal-Mart, allow families to afford more luxuries than they otherwise could if every single product they bought had to be made in the United States.

According to Richard Florida of George Mason University, in the next decade 10 million hi-tech jobs will be created in America in what he calls the "creative economy," which includes the film industry. But Mr. "Made in America" wants his brethren stuck in factories making cheap American flags that will be sold at circuses.

There is no way you would be able to buy an American flag for $1 if it were made in the United States. High worker wages, labor laws, unions, and burdensome regulations on business all add costs to doing business that are not a factor in Chinese-made products. So tell me, Mr. Made-in-America, do you want to pay $5 for that American flag at the circus or $1? Do you want to pay $500 for that television made with Chinese parts or that was put together in China, or do you want to pay $750 for the same one put together by American workers?

Do you want Americans making little flags to sell at circuses, or do you want them to be available to take higher-paying jobs that require more education? If you want to stick Americans in those unskilled jobs, I'll bet that there will be Chinese scientists and Indian engineers and Pakistani computer scientists who will be more than eager to take your "American" jobs.

Mr. Made-in-America, I don't care whether or not the man who built the car I drive every day was born in Pennsylvania, India, or Korea. I just want employers to be free to hire the most qualified person available for the job anywhere in the world at a mutually agreed-upon wage. Not only is that what economic freedom is all about, it also helps keep the cost of living down for all of us.

Practical arguments aside, why do we think we are celebrating our freedoms by passing more laws that restrict our freedoms? Why do I want the government telling me that I cannot purchase flags made from wherever I would like to buy them from at the lowest price possible? If we want to know the truth of why American flags are made in China and not the United States, let us educate ourselves about the benefits of free trade rather than pass more burdensome laws that hurt American consumers, no matter how patriotic they may seem on the surface.

Lois Kaneshiki is a home-schooling parent in central Pennsylvania and the host of the cable television show, "Speak Out," in Altoona.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*JimC SAID: Last year (2010) Obama flew in Air Force One 172 times, almost every other day.*

Uh…Jim, 
Try to guess how many flights President *George W Bush* has flown on Air Force One since taking office. It's* 1,675 - more than 200 flights in each of the last eight years.*


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## usnret (Jul 14, 2011)

The part about American flags are pretty damn sad to me. When I made my retirement shadow box I specifically bought a flag made right here in the USA from USA materials. 
We cant even make our own flags anymore? Whats next we outsource the birthing of our children to China?


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

Another prospective

*3 Misconceptions that need to die*
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2011/10/25/3-misconceptions-that-need-to-die.aspx


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Statistics are great, but what were they before we, U.S., closed 50,000 factoires in the last decade?

The inequitiy of the 1% owing 40% of US assets has far out strips the situation in Rome when the downfall began; there it was only 18%!


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

TopMax
I don't follow.
This piece was written in Oct., 2011


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

What were the numbers before everyone lost their jobs? I heard on the radio yesterday unemployment among white males 25-to 65 is 18%. I suppose that includes everyone who is unemployed, not just those drawing benefits.


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

Well, there are a lot of different opinions here, some based on what we see in this country, some just opinions. I actually lived in Shanghai for 16 months as an American businessman, and I can tell you first hand that the Chinese absolutely LOVE ANYTHING made in America. GM has realized this, and their Buick plants in Shanghai and Beijing put out over 100,000 cars a year, mostly Buicks. In 2010, fully one third of GM profits came from China. Mostly black and silver, and they always sell out.
Everybody from Frito-Lay to Motorola is over there, selling as fast as they can. But in all honesty, most Chinese just don't make enough money to offset the difference between us and them. Since there is little potable water in China, a huge industry is bottled water. Coke makes hundreds of millions of bottles everyday.
In 2006, when I was there, they had just brought about 300 million people out of poverty in the previous 5 years. Think of that - almost the entire population of the United States, in poverty! And I'm not talking about the food stamp/welfare/free medical care poverty we know, but the dirt floor, one small rice crop a year, one meal a day no schooling, no TV, no medical save for traditional Chinese meds, no transportation save for old bicycles type of poverty. To a lot of Chinese, a night at McDonalds is a BIG deal. I rode on Chinese trains where the toilets were only used underway. Why? Because they were simply holes in the car with a little toilet on top. Sit down and get a breeze, and maybe the occasional rock. They also sell "stand" tickets. When people go home for the Chinese New Year, it is not unusual for two-three of them to buy one seat ticket and two stand tickets, and rotate to save money. 
I once, one Saturday morning woke up and looked out my window where a new high-rise apartment was going up. A lone migrant Chinese man was crawling out on the boom of the sky crane. He had no safety rope, and his shoes were off for better grip. We're talking a boom maybe 18" wide. The outside temp was maybe 40'. He crawled all the way out to the end of the boom, where he pulled a rough brush out of his back pocket full of grease. He carefully greased the two wheels that held the cables. Then he threw down the brush to the ground, maybe ten-twelve floors, and slowly turned around. He crawled back to safety. I only noticed then that my cup of coffee I was holding had gone cold. It really brought home how the average Chinese is trying to get up in life. Also, they save 30-50% of their pay every week since they had a currency collapse in 1999. 
I also learned that if we pulled out completely from China, Europe and the US both, they would have a negative economy that would cave in on itself. There are no Fortune 100 companies born and bred in China. After that, who knows? War? I've seen the Chinese Army up close. You cannot join if you even have a parking ticket or a bad grade in school, up until two years ago. No thanks, they are true bad-asses and their are 2.5 Million of them. 
After my stay, I have a little more heart for people trying to reach for what we take for granted. Not saying to buy everything from them, but after seeing how they work, struggle and are a lot like us in 1910, I have a little more compassion. Just my humble opinion from one who worked with them, shoulder to shoulder for 16 months.


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## RogerC (Dec 20, 2011)

Thank you southpaw. Americans all to often seem quick to laugh at your neighbors to the North. But we produce a huge quanity of the raw materials consumed in the US as well as construction and finished goods. Lets support made in North America. By the way Jim C I hope you don't buy your Klien tools at Home Depot its a huge rip off! not to mention home depot is like the head quarters for chinese garbage!


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