# 2021 Plane Swap



## DavePolaschek

Fellow Lumberjocks,

It's time for the next swap, and this time it's a plane swap.

A Note: This swap is in no way officially sponsored by, run by, or otherwise tied to "LumberJocks" as a company or organization, or to any of the parent or sibling holdings thereof. It is simply run by those of us who participate on LumberJocks.

*Basic Details*
If you have not participated in one of our LumberJocks Shop Made Swaps before, Welcome! It's relatively simple; each participant makes their swap item(s) and will get a name and address via e-mail after the "progress picture" deadline to where they will be mailing their entry. Postage is to be paid by the sender. The LumberJock who you're shipping to, as well as the one who is shipping to you, will be selected randomly. Unless there are special circumstances - like the need for international shipping - I will not influence who anyone is paired with.

*Rules for this swap*
- Teaser shots are allowed, but please do not post full in-progress or finished pictures until after the reveal date. Remember we want everyone to be surprised when they receive their package! - A progress pic (sent to me) will be required NO LATER THAN the due date listed near the end of this post. The progress pic needs to show that you've put sufficient time and work into the project to be able to complete it by the ship date. Anyone who doesn't e-mail me a progress pic or let me know why they haven't by 11:59 pm EST on the due date will be dropped from the list of participants.

*What we're making*
We're making planes. This includes, but is not limited to: bench planes, scraper planes, block planes, plough planes, miter planes, combination planes, thumb planes, scrub planes, moulding planes, rabbet planes, kerfing planes, infill planes, router planes, shoulder planes, and spokeshaves. Also allowed will be rehabbing an existing plane, which can be more work that building one from scratch, depending on how it's been used. Spokeshaves are a great introduction to planes, and if you're a beginner, they're a great way to get a feel for what it takes to make a working plane.

If you're looking for a kit, Ron Hock sells Kits for Planes, Spokeshaves and Shoulder Planes as does Lee Valley (search for plane kit ). Our own DonW has infilled some planes and built others and has a list of projects on TimeTestedTools which may prove inspirational.

*Bonus items*
Bonus Items are completely optional and are not in any way required or expected. Bonus items do not have to be related to the swap theme, or even woodworking for that matter. Nobody's expecting anything other than swap items though, so don't feel any obligation whatsoever to add anything extra.

*How to sign up*
Post below letting me know that you are in and then send an e-mail to (lumberjocks2021planeswap at fastmail dot com) containing ALL of the following information: 
- LumberJocks Username 
- Real Name 
- Email address 
- Shipping Address, including country
 - Let me know if you are not willing to ship internationally (so I can make sure I pair any non-US participants accordingly)

I'll send a confirmation e-mail and will be keeping a list of confirmed participants below that I will update periodically. If you don't get a confirmation email and see your name on the list within a day or two of e-mailing me, shoot me another e-mail or PM so I don't miss anybody.
Progress pictures will also be sent to the above e-mail address no later than the due date given below. Your recipient's name and address will be sent to you from the same e-mail address so make sure it's not caught by your spam filter.

*Important dates*
In order to participate, you need to adhere to the dates below. Failure to do so will result in you getting dropped from the swap. If you can't make the progress picture or ship dates, please make sure to notify me immediately so that I can update my incredibly high-tech collection of Post-It Notes. 

Register for swap, please register by: April 10, 2021 
Progress picture, please send by: May 16, 2021 
Ship date, please ship by: June 21, 2021 
Reveal date: June 28, 2021

No final pics until this date. Let the recipient post a pic or two before the sender posts their "formal" pics and project entry. We may reveal earlier if everyone has received their package before the reveal date. 

*Other Stuff:*
When you post your projects, use the tag "2021 plane swap" so we can all easily find the projects in one spot.
This is a collaborative learning experience for all of us so make use of this forum thread to share knowledge and ideas as well asking questions and getting advice. These swaps are about the journey more than the destination!

Notice, in order to participate in a swap you must be a member in good standing in the lumberjocks community. The moderator can not be expected to, and will not act as a go between for banned or blocked members.

*Who's in*:

Dave Polaschek *P* *S* *R* project
JohnMcClure *P* *S* *R* project
Woodmaster1 *P* *S* *R* project
Eric *P* *S* *R* project
DevinT *P* *S* *R* project
drsurfrat *P* *S* *R* project
MakerofSawdust *P* *S* *R* reveal
Lazyman *P* *S* *R* project

After action note for the next person to run a plane swap (even if that's me): be strict about the progress photos. *If it's not recognizably a plane by the halfway point, it probably ain't gonna be*, and people are incredibly reluctant to switch to a plan B at that point (sunk cost fallacy?).


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## Keebler1

Following not sure if ill join have a bunch of shop stuff to get done


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## JohnMcClure

I'll join! 
Will email tonight.


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## clieb91

I'm following Dave. Thanks for taking the next one.

CtL


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## EarlS

I'm sitting in the cheap seat heckling everyone and eating some pop corn. Who says a used table saw blade doesn't qualify as a plane - darn luddites!!!


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## DavePolaschek

And we've got participants. Woohoo! I made the progress pic a week later, and the ship two weeks longer than usual, which takes us just about to the 4th of July. I figure Kenny's beer swap can overlap if needed. I mean how long does it take to knock out a set of tubafor coasters?

Earl, as pointed out by Mike in the other swap thread, turn it into a kerfing plane and it'll qualify.


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## mikeacg

Planes?
Here you go Dave! Go to 3:39 and you will be amazed!


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## DavePolaschek

He's got a few planes there, yup.


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## LittleBlackDuck

> Planes?
> Here you go Dave! Go to 3:39 and you will be amazed!
> 
> - mikeacg


While I appreciate old restorations, why so many??? Personally he's selfishly depriving hundreds of woodworking enthusiasts the pleasure of finding one and attempting the restoration for themselves. It doesn't seem like he's recycling to a worthy recipient.


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## jeffswildwood

I'm thinking, on the fence, I need to make sure I can build (and tune) one of these.


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## DavePolaschek

I found the Lee Valley kits better as a newbie than the Hock kits, Jeff. The Norris adjuster that's included with them makes it relatively easy to adjust the blade, compared to tapping the blade and wedge. And the lateral adjustment on the adjuster means that if your build is a little lopsided, it can be corrected.

The prototype swap plane I made two years ago came out well enough (in spite of a few mistakes along the way) that it still sits on top of my bench 90% of the time, rather than getting put away, because I use it so often. It's my primary smoothing plane.


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## HokieKen

I agree about the Lee Valley kits. I really like the Norris adjusters. Not just for beginners and not just compared to setting the blade with a hammer. If it were up to me all bench planes would have, and would have always had since the beginning of time, a norris adjuster.

I'm 90% sure I'm joining in. I have some machining jobs in queue and I'm sure I'll be machining something for this swap  I just want to make sure I can knock out commitments already made and have a pretty good idea of what I'm making and how I'm making it before I jump in.

I got my one and only wooden plane that I use in the shop in a surprise swap a few years back from Mosquito:









It's a Krenov-style plane (at least I think it is technically) and is the size of a Stanley #2 smooth plane. But, Mos' pitched the blade at 50 degrees instead of the typical 45. This makes it a treat to work figured woods or wood with grain that changes direction.

Something like this is a treat for any hand tool user and there are lots of tutorials out there for building Krenov planes. Just an idea for some of y'all ;-)


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## doubleG469

I'll disappoint one of you gentlemen, never built one so this should be fun.


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## SMP

Man would love to do this, just not sure if i'll have time. Will think…


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## DavePolaschek

I figure you'll eventually cave, Kenny. Let me know if I need to start applying peer pressure, though.

Welcome aboard, Gary!

If it makes any difference, SMP, I made the two deadlines a week longer than previous swaps. Figured extra time won't be a bad thing. I'm going to have six trees and a handful of bushes to get planted this spring, so at least one of those weeks will go to spring yard work.

Looking forward to this!


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## clieb91

That is a huge collection of planes. But I watched the remainder of the video and wow, some really awesome shops. Thanks for sharing Mike.

CtL


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## bndawgs

I came across that video yesterday. I was surprised how many of the shops featured were in VA.


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## Lazyman

> I figure you'll eventually cave, Kenny. Let me know if I need to start applying *beer* pressure, though.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


I fixed it for you.


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## HokieKen

You definitely fixed it for me.


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## GrantA




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## clieb91

I think I can do this one…










CtL


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## GrantA

Chris. Can you make it rubber band powered?


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## Mosquito

These are the 3 I've made for swaps (and 3 of 4 I've ever made), in order




























This is the first one, (the only plane I've ever made, and kept lol)


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## DavePolaschek

Chris, I'm not sure that meets the super-broad criteria for "plane".

Grant, knew we could count on you.

Mos, gonna join in? With three years since the last one, you've probably learned something new. ;-)


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## MikeB_UK

Must count, it was in that guys shop with all the planes the other day


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## SMP

Hmm, ok just watched Richard's plane making video on theenglishwoodworker.com. If I can find an iron and cap iron for a decent price i may be in.


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## EarlS

Mos - those are some fine looking planes.

Chris - that is more like it. I prefer the bi-plane though.

I just finished planing some butternut that I got from Dick - WOW!! I'm surprised more people aren't using it. Lots of character. I'll try to get a good picture of it. Gotta find some more.


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## Keebler1

Pen i made today. My wife likes it better than the one i made her a couple of weekends ago


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## Woodmaster1

I thinking about participating. I have to get my making wooden tools book by John Wilson back from a friend. Loaned it out months ago I guess I will never learn not to loan things out. I will know by the end of the week.


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## JohnMcClure

> Hmm, ok just watched Richard's plane making video on theenglishwoodworker.com. If I can find an iron and cap iron for a decent price i may be in.
> 
> - SMP


SMP,
Is that video worth creating a free account? I a) don't like the hassle of getting into a paywall and b) feel bad about consuming the "freemium" content because obviously the hope is I pay to subscribe, which simply isn't going to happen. I'm also not interested in browsing YouTube for uncurated plane-making videos, so a recommendation carries a lot of weight.


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## DavePolaschek

Earl, I've used butternut in a couple swaps. Think I included some in my project for the most recent one, even. It's not too bad to come by in Minnesota. The guys at the lumber yard here in Santa Fe just look at me like I'm crazy if I mention butternut, though,

SMP, you could always ask DonW what he has available if you don't want to buy new.

Woodmaster, jump on in. Sounds like you're qualified. "How hard could it be?"


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## Mosquito

Still thinking about it Dave, have to make sure I think I'll have enough shop time to do it with the little one now, and some work changes. Summers are usually less shop-time-filled, because of the cabin on the weekends, but I hope to


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## SMP

> Hmm, ok just watched Richard's plane making video on theenglishwoodworker.com. If I can find an iron and cap iron for a decent price i may be in.
> 
> - SMP
> 
> SMP,
> Is that video worth creating a free account? I a) don t like the hassle of getting into a paywall and b) feel bad about consuming the "freemium" content because obviously the hope is I pay to subscribe, which simply isn t going to happen. I m also not interested in browsing YouTube for uncurated plane-making videos, so a recommendation carries a lot of weight.
> 
> - JohnMcClure


I think so. I have paid for 3 of his videos. He is great and his wife Helen does absolutely amazing camera and editing and sound. His videos are all great and entertaining. He gets right to work, shows you what is important and where you can cut corners. And i have never gotten spam from him or sold, and rarely get emails at all from him. So, i would suggest the free account as nothing to lose and no pressure. Worst case, you learn some tips on how to build a plane, even if you choose another style. Btw, he doesn't have a subscription, its just pay one price for whatever video series.


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## donwilwol

Here is some help from the 2013 swap https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/51482


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## bandit571

Been a long time since I made a plane …









Made 2, back then…that Jack plane and..









A Traditional Chinese Edge plane…..

Not sure if I have the timber in shop, to make another, let alone an iron….iron in the edge plane was a H-F Skew Chisel for a lathe.


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## Lazyman

Can someone explain why a high angle works better for figured wood?


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## DavePolaschek

Nathan, the main problem with figured wood is that the plane blade will follow the grain down into the wood, and then tear out a chunk.

With a high angle, it behaves more like a scraper, sliding across the grains, rather than digging in.

Same reason you want a lower angle for end grain. You want the blade cutting across the grain, rather than having a chance to slide under it.


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## HokieKen

Yep, what Dave said Nathan. It works for the same reason a scraper works. The lower the angle, the more it wants to lift and tear the grain strata rather than just taking a little off the top.


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## SMP

> Been a long time since I made a plane …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Made 2, back then…that Jack plane and..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Traditional Chinese Edge plane…..
> 
> Not sure if I have the timber in shop, to make another, let alone an iron….iron in the edge plane was a H-F Skew Chisel for a lathe.
> 
> - bandit571


Looking at the second pic i thought you made a spill plane at first


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## Lazyman

That makes sense. Are they usually bevel up or down?


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## DavePolaschek

Bevel down is more traditional. Not sure why, but probably due to being able to put in a chip-breaker and easier geometry for adjusters and a tote. Bevel-up is catching on, but the complication is that the blade has to ride significantly lower, which makes it harder to put a tote back there.

Bandit and Don, join in if you'd like.

I'd probably allow a spill plane, too. It's goofy enough in today's world that it would be worth comment.


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## bandit571

Second plane is a skewed rebate plane….with an adjustable fence….one Saturday to make, IF the parts needed are on hand…..

Both planes are bevel down, and are pushed along…but…they can be pulled, if needed because of the way the grain runs…

Still have the Jack plane, IF anyone wants it. FirefighterBill has the edge plane.


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## HokieKen

> That makes sense. Are they usually bevel up or down?
> 
> - Lazyman


Bevel down. You can accomplish the same angle of incidence by pitching it low and using bevel up. But then you can't use a chipbreaker which can be a big help with a smoother. However, the plane Mos' sent me doesn't have a chipbreaker and it works exceptionally well. So, there are no hard and fast rules to it ;-)


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## Mosquito

Also, the other thing about bevel up to consider is that when making a wooden plane, there's less wood under the plane iron, and can allow it to flex more, which is obviously less than ideal. I ran in to that issue with the two shoulder planes I made. If I were to try flattening the sole before installing the iron, there would be a big high spot just behind the iron where it flexed down from the wedge, and consequently, if you were to check the flatness with out the iron installed and wedged in place, you would see a huge hollow.

Something else about bevel down, is that the angle is set by the bed angle, not the bevel. If it was supposed to be a 50° cutting angle with a bevel up, bedded at 15° you need a 35° bevel. A 30° bevel will come out to a 45° cutting angle, 40° bevel will be 55°. This is both an advantage and a disadvantage, in that you can have multiple irons for the same plane to get different angles, but also it's very dependent on the person sharpening the iron to ensure the angle is correct. With bevel down, as long as the bevel angle is less than the bed angle, you're in business


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## Woodmaster1

I guess I'm participating but no guarantees on its functionality. I have only made one plane a shoulder plane in a John Wilson class.


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## DavePolaschek

Shoot me the email with the info if you want in, Woodmaster.


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## MikeB_UK

Random question to the crowd.

What do you stabilise any hairline cracks in spalted timber with to keep them from splitting?
I'm thinking CA glue or thin epoxy.

This one was too deep so I split it off, but got a few that are small enough to fix.


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## GrantA

CA glue for me Mike!

I got to check out the production floor at a local manufacturer today, they make stamped steel parts and had my dad and me in to look at building them some fixtures. 
I just thought a 2×72 was sweet- check this belt grinder out! 









Before we left it was in action so I got to take a *video*. There are 2 grinders/robots per enclosure and they have 2 enclosures. So awesome


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## DavePolaschek

Mike, if I notice it early, I'll epoxy it before stabilizing the spalted wood. If not, CA and sawdust if it needs a little fill, or wood glue if I think I can clamp it, or just split it off.

But stabilizing will close up little splits, too. Cactus juice isn't as strong as glue, but it's about as strong as wood.


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## clieb91

So Grant when are you going to install one in your shop?

CtL


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## MikeB_UK

Cheers Grant.

Dave, It's not bad enough to need stabilising (famous last words), just a couple of very small cracks where the spalting has dried a bit quicker, I split off anything that looked even slightly punky or would need filling.

Of course, I don't have a vacuum chamber either, so that simplifies the choices


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## GrantA

I figure when they upgrade and ask me to help swap them out hahaha


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## Lazyman

The problem with CA is that it will soak in around the crack and discolor it so I usually put some sort of finish or wax along the edges of the crack being careful not to get any inside the crack. The more punky or softer the wood the deeper the discoloration may go.


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## HokieKen

That's really cool Grant!



> The problem with CA is that it will soak in around the crack….
> 
> - Lazyman


I'm gonna let that one slide. Mostly.


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## mikeacg

Grant,
Before the pandemic, Public Auctions had a robot for sale in Oshkosh for $1500 and I almost bought it (Wish I had since now I have had the time to learn to program it). I'll be interested in getting one at some point now that I have the store.
The Auctions pretty much dried up since it was schools and government businesses that were selling stuff and travel became an issue. Retirement might be a good thing for me now? We'll see where I end up!

Mike


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## EricFai

Ok, on the fence here. I have to give this a little thought and check out some of the kits. I have never built and tools that require an edge. Shop jigs yes, tools no.


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## Keebler1

MokeB this video is a long video but somewhere in there he has some small cracks in his bowl where he shows putting titebond 3 on the crack, pushing it in with his finger and wiping the excess off then vigorously sands the spot with 120 grit sandpaper. The heat from the sandpaper dries the glue and also fills the crack with sawdust making it blend in.


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## GrantA

Mikeacg C'mon you could've had that thing opening beers in the first day, mixing drinks in a couple weeks geez!


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## DavePolaschek

Mike, I've stabilized without a vacuum chamber, but for that, you need really rotted wood… stuff that's almost falling apart. But the same elm that made my low workbench got stabilized and made a couple really nice planes too. It went from soft, but very usable to rock solid with the stabilization. So, I guess I'm saying I'm a fan of the process.

Nathan, CA will discolor it, but it's almost the same discoloration that you get from tung oil, so sometimes that works out.

Eric, swaps are a great way to stretch your skills and try new things. As I've said before, I had pretty good luck with the Lee Valley plane kit, and I've built multiple spokeshaves using the Hock kits. I had so-so results with the Hock Krenov-style plane kit, but that may well be because I'm no good at adjusting planes with a hammer. Anyway, if you think you can handle it, jump on in and find out. If you're unsure, start trying to build one now and take the next couple weeks to figure out how you're doing. I'm already starting on Plan A for this swap, and if it works, that'll ship. If not, I'll move to plan B in a couple weeks, which leaves me time for plan C if everything goes haywire.


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## EricFai

Dave,
Yes, I am leaning towards this. I did a bit of research this evening, lee valley, and a few articles. I think I can manage a build. As for adjustments, I can't do that very well myself, but I may learn. Plan "A" "B" or "C" that is good. And if I read this last week, a blank would have been on the way.

The question is: "A" type, "B" parts, "C" stock, Maybe even a "D" am I really up to this challenge. But there is time for me to answer those, at least a week.


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## SMP

Can you make a wooden plane with just a tapered iron? Or do you need a chipbreaker/ double iron?


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## Mosquito

You can make a wooden plane with just a tapered iron, many were made that way. You can even make a wooden plane with a non-tapered iron too


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## Lazyman

A lot of the Japanese style planes have just a tapered iron.


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## SMP

Ok thanks, i can pick up one pretty cheap, at least cheaper than an iron and chipbreaker combo. I personally only have one wooden plane(jack at least) and it has some crazy double iron and wedge.


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## JohnMcClure

I wonder if anyone will build a japanese/"pull style" plane. Where the blade is set way toward the back of the body. I've never used one, or fettled one, so to build one for the swap seems presumptuous… but have always wondered. I often use my #4 with a pulling motion as it is.

And to recap some of the possibilities for this swap:
-Japanese or Western style?
-Bevel up, bevel down?
-Block plane, smoothing plane, shoulder plane, rabbet plane, router plane, spokeshave? Kerfing plane?
-Low angle, high angle?
-Round-bottom planes have their uses too, like smoothing out chair seats and the inside of curves.

That's not a list of permutations - imagine a Japanese Bevel-Up Kerfing Plane, High angle, with round bottom! But it illustrates that there are infinite possibilities for this swap. I'm excited for what I'll get and daunted for what I'll need to make.

SKILL QUESTION:
I've read this somewhere before, I think, but is there a particularly "oily" wood that was commonly used as the sole of planes? would it be beneficial to replicate that or just use something strong and good-looking?


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## HokieKen

I tend to pull scraper planes more often than not John so I can see it being useful for a finishing plane of some type. It seems like it would be tough to get the proper leverage for any plane taking a moderate or heavier cut though. I've never tried though so I could be totally wrong.


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## HokieKen

Any wood that's hard and stable will make a good sole John. Oily would be a plus but I keep a block of wax handy for plane soles so it's not a necessity.

Also, a bevel-up kerfing plane? That's one I want to see ;-)


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## MikeB_UK

> Can you make a wooden plane with just a tapered iron? Or do you need a chipbreaker/ double iron?
> 
> - SMP


Yes, pretty much all moulding planes if you're feeling ambitious 

But smoothing planes and scrub planes are fine too, as Mos said, doesn't even need a tapered iron.


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## mikeacg

> Mikeacg C mon you could ve had that thing opening beers in the first day, mixing drinks in a couple weeks geez!
> 
> - GrantA


I'm still kicking myself for that screw-up Grant! I have a little plastic robotic arm that I programmed to sprinkle salt. You set your plate on the x, hit a button on the laptop, and the arm grabs the shaker, puts it over the plate, shakes a couple times, and then returns the shaker and parks. It's not strong enough to pick up a beer though…


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## DavePolaschek

John, to answer your question about soles, I use ipe for plane soles a lot, and have been pretty happy with it. It can be tough to work, especially the pieces with challenging grain that I tend to buy (because nobody else wants them, so I get them cheap), but it's pretty when first planed, and holds up to hard use fairly well. The only real complaint I have about it is that it fades to a fairly plain gray-brown over time, but on a plane I'm using regularly, the surface looks ok. I'll post a shot of the sole of my smoother later today.

Katalox is one I've used for spokeshaves, too. Very good mechanical properties, but a real pain to work. But the results are pretty nice, and it wears pretty darned well.

But even cherry will work. It'll wear a little faster than the tropical stuff, but depending on the type of plane, the sole may not take too much wear (though I still used an ipe sole on that first one).

Oak? Sure, that'll work too, though the pores will sometimes hold dust, which isn't ideal. If a guy pore-filled it, I think oak (or ash) would do a decent job.

I've also used macacauba for a plane sole, which is also known as granadillo. The main problem with it is that there are a bunch of different woods sold as granadillo, with different properties.

Does that help? ;-)


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## GrantA

Mike I can only imagine it's about as exciting as Howard's robotic hand ;-p bahahaha


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## Keebler1

Dave I just got a 10 board foot pack of grenadillo. Boards are about 4.5" wide by 24" long and there are 6. Looking at the sides of the boards as i havent taken the plastic holding the boards together off yet i have 3 light colored boards and 3 dark colored boards almost like they sent me 3 roasted grenadillo and 3 regular grenadillo boards.


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## DavePolaschek

Yeah, Keebler. The sapwood is pretty light and the heartwood is pretty dark. That contrast doesn't seem to fade over time, either. It's cool looking, but the heartwood is quite a bit harder/stronger if you're looking to use it for a plane.


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## Keebler1

I didnt know anything about it when I ordered it. Just saw the pack of shorts for $99 free shipping. Gonna make a couple of photo albums and have Mike do some cnc work on the covers. My stepdaughters a photographer and even though everything is digital now I think she would like it.


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## DavePolaschek

Here's the sole of the plane I made out of ipe, and which I've been using almost every day for a year. It's about ready for me to dress it again, but I've only got about a dozen more bookcases to build before I'm done, so I'll probably wait.










I nail the backs onto the cases, and as you can see, I sometimes find those nails with the plane. Still, it's held up pretty well, I think.


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## MikeB_UK

Armour plating is also a tried and tested method of making the sole durable.


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## SMP

Would bubinga be good for a plane?


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## MikeB_UK

> Would bubinga be good for a plane?
> 
> - SMP


Short answer - Hell yeah


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## DavePolaschek

According to the wood-database, bubinga has a Janka hardness of about 2400. Ipe is 3500 and katalox is 3660.

But in my experience, anything above about 2000 will work. Much softer than that, and you'll chew up the sole pretty fast, even on things like knots, and you may want to consider up-armoring the plane at that point. Or not. It depends on the intended use, too. Not all uses are as hard on the sole, and for something like a scrub plane, keeping the sole pristine isn't a big deal. Even as chewed up as my plane is (see picture above), it doesn't leave tracks while smoothing, as I've ground the chips out of the blade and the scratches are all skewed relative to the base.


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## JohnMcClure

> Also, a bevel-up kerfing plane? That's one I want to see ;-)
> - HokieKen


Ken, those exist - they are a specialty tool for cutting medium-rare grassfed chicken breast.

Ken, Dave, and others - lots of great information there, thank you!


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## MikeB_UK

Exception to that hardness rule of thumb would be European Beech which has a Janka hardness of about 1500 and virtually all planes over here were made of it.
Something sciency about the rays making the face wear like end grain.

Admittedly that info's not much use to you lot over on that side of the pond, but someone might have a stash.


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## DavePolaschek

Yeah, beech is an exception. I think I remember hearing that sycamore is another, but I haven't been able to score either to give it a try. They're on the list, though.


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## drsurfrat

Lignum vitae is another for plane soles. I heard it was used as a bearing surface for ship propeller axles. if that's true, it's gotta be good for planes- oily and dense


----------



## SMP

> Exception to that hardness rule of thumb would be European Beech which has a Janka hardness of about 1500 and virtually all planes over here were made of it.
> Something sciency about the rays making the face wear like end grain.
> 
> Admittedly that info s not much use to you lot over on that side of the pond, but someone might have a stash.
> 
> - MikeB_UK


My local hardwood place sells european steamed beech. I was going to make my bench out of it(until I calculated what it would cost lol). I'll see what sized they sell in it.


----------



## HokieKen

> Lignum vitae is another for plane soles. I heard it was used as a bearing surface for ship propeller axles. if that's true, it's gotta be good for planes- oily and dense
> 
> - drsurfrat


Lignum would be my preference for a wooden plane sole. Greenheart would be a contender too. I have a pretty decent stash of that stuff. It's hard, oily and heavy as hell. Not as hard or heavy as Lignum but it's much stiffer. Depending on the size and purpose of the plane, that can be a big consideration.


----------



## jeffswildwood

What about walnut, something I have an abundance of. My gummy cherry stash is almost gone now.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Black walnut has a hardness of 1000, Jeff. It's pretty soft for a plane, but if I was going to make a walnut plane, I'd either use a small piece of something harder for the sole (harder wood or steel), or maybe use a brass or steel mouth.


----------



## Keebler1

Before Kenny asks no Kenny a tubafour wont work either


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Ironwood would be another fine choice for a plane sole.


----------



## DavePolaschek

If you're looking for the hardest woods, wood database has the 10 hardest woods list for you to look at.


----------



## SMP

> If you're looking for the hardest woods, wood database has the 10 hardest woods list for you to look at.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Personally I don't want the hardest wood lol. I have worked with some woods that are an absolute bear to work with. Even things like Ipe and Wenge can be a pain to plane etc. When building an Ipe deck I lost count of how many drill bits and screws i snapped. I would like to find something easy to work with hand tools but "hard enough"


----------



## Lazyman

I made a plane for a swap couple of years ago and used pecan for the sole. It was a nice compromise between hard and smooth and relatively easy to work. For a really hard wood I also like Eastern live oak. It is one of the heaviest and hardest native hardwoods, I think that only lignum vitae and desert ironwood are harder It can be a little boring compared to the exotics and the wavy grain can sometimes be a little difficult if you don't have sharp tools but when you use sharp tools on it, man does it finish up nicely. It also turns very nicely when you use HHS gouges. One of the best things is that I have one growing in my front yard and it is a widely planted landscape tree around here so I get the wood for free.


----------



## donwilwol

Unless you use handplanes for a living, I don't think the wood hardness matters ( within reason). Beech and birch planes have lasted hundreds of years even when they were used every day. I'll bet most of use here wouldn't wear out a pine plane in our lifetime.

I'd use what you have or can easily find (again, within reason)


----------



## donwilwol

Unless you use handplanes for a living, I don't think the wood hardness matters ( within reason). Beech and birch planes have lasted hundreds of years even when they were used every day. I'll bet most of use here wouldn't wear out a pine plane in our lifetime.

I'd use what you have or can easily find (again, within reason)


----------



## jeffswildwood

> Unless you use handplanes for a living, I don t think the wood hardness matters ( within reason). Beech and birch planes have lasted hundreds of years even when they were used every day. I ll bet most of use here wouldn t wear out a pine plane in our lifetime.
> 
> I d use what you have or can easily find (again, within reason)
> 
> - Don W


That would be me. I have one plane, a small block plane. I'd say one of the least used tools in my shop but when I do need it, it's valuable. I would never wear one out but I do know several people on here use a plane every day.


----------



## HokieKen

I use planes most every day I'm in the shop working with wood. Which is funny since 7 or 8 years ago I didn't own, or care to own, a single one. I bought the first couple to restore mostly because I was intrigued by the process and the history of the tools.

These days I have a full set of Millers Falls bench planes sizes 3-8, one Stanley jack plane, the two Buck Rogers planes (google it, they're really cool ;-p), a Veritas low angle jack, a half dozen or so block planes, the woodie Mos made me, two combination planes, and a compass plane. Nevermind scrapers and shaves…

What I don't have that I think would be handy is a proper shoulder plane. Something like a Stanley 92/93/94. If you use rabbets or tenons often and tune the fit by hand, it would come in handy. Lots of info online for making infill shoulder planes. Just sayin ;-)


----------



## MikeB_UK

> What I don't have that I think would be handy is a proper shoulder plane. Something like a Stanley 92/93/94. If you use rabbets or tenons often and tune the fit by hand, it would come in handy. Lots of info online for making infill shoulder planes. Just sayin ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Just knocked one together thats more your speed Kenny.
Mark up a prime looking bit of tubafor








Cut the cheeks








Cut the escapement








And done


----------



## SMP

> I use planes most every day I'm in the shop working with wood. Which is funny since 7 or 8 years ago I didn't own, or care to own, a single one. I bought the first couple to restore mostly because I was intrigued by the process and the history of the tools.
> 
> - HokieKen


My story is pretty funny. I went to Home Depot about 30 years ago and for a reason I can't remember bought a Buck Brothers Jack plane, that the worker there talked me into. I got home, tried to use it on whatever it was I was working on and completely destroyed some of the wood I was using, tearing big ****************************** out left and right. I thought to myself "this is the stupidest tool ever made" and stuck it in a drawer in my tool box for years. Fast forward a couple decades and youtube comes out and I watch some videos, i think Paul Sellers showing how to use and sharpen a plane. What??!!!? Nobody ever told me you had to sharpen these things! The guy at Home depot didn't say a thing about that! Bought a stanley 4 and 5, sharpened them and the Buck that was still sitting in one of my toolboxes, and learned how to use them, and have collected several more over the years.


----------



## HokieKen

It still amazes me how some people think things come sharpened for life SMP. It boggles my mind how many people I know that don't have a clue how to sharpen a knife but carry one every day.

That brings me to wonder how many swap planes get used until they're dull then sit on a shelf forever?


----------



## SMP

> It still amazes me how some people think things come sharpened for life SMP. It boggles my mind how many people I know that don t have a clue how to sharpen a knife but carry one every day.
> 
> That brings me to wonder how many swap planes get used until they re dull then sit on a shelf forever?
> 
> - HokieKen


Well, to be fair, around the same time I bought a hardpoint saw, (can't remember the name but made in sweden?), and a Vaughan Bear trim pull saw, that worked just fine out of the box . And i still use the Bear saw to this day. Other saws and sawblades too. So i assumed this plane and the yellow handled stanley chisel set i bought should work the same!


----------



## DavePolaschek

When they get dull, then it's time to buy a new plane, right, Kenny?


----------



## HokieKen

Saws are a little different animal SMP. I can make a cut with a dull saw and get the right result even if it takes extra effort. Can't say the same with a plane ;-)

Yes Dave, it is. And everyone can start sending me their "spent" planes for proper disposal ;-)


----------



## SMP

> Saws are a little different animal SMP. I can make a cut with a dull saw and get the right result even if it takes extra effort. Can t say the same with a plane ;-)
> 
> Yes Dave, it is. And everyone can start sending me their "spent" planes for proper disposal ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Yeah, its just that 30 years ago you kind of relied on advice from the guy at the hardware store. I guess in the old old days you learned by apprenticing. Now its youtube. But for us that grew up between apprenticeships and youtube we just had to stumble through stuff.


----------



## HokieKen

I definitely agree with that SMP. I learned machining through apprenticeship and what I know of woodworking through the internet. Never would have figured either out on my own!


----------



## EarlS

I thought that you bought new when something went dull ;+D

I managed to dull a brand new set of planer blades on one board of damp 5/4 white oak and a handful of 5/4 cherry boards last night. It might need to sit for a bit before I use it. Not sure what the moisture is in the 8/4 oak but I didn't run any of it thru the planer. All of it had been sitting in a barn for a year or so. Guess I should get a moisture meter.

What about corn cobs for a plane body? Just askin' for a friend (OK - it's Kenny)


----------



## DavePolaschek

Corn cobs? I think you'd have to stabilize them, Earl. But I just got a gallon of Cactus Juice, so I'm almost ready to start stabilizing again…


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah Earl, that planer is definitely useless. Just ship it to me and go get another one.


----------



## mikeacg

Definitely need to stabilize the corn cobs… or Kenny would eat the plane!
I'm just waiting for that corn-wood' to hit the market so I can try carving it!

Mike


----------



## SMP

A corn cob plane with a button nose?


----------



## sepeck

> It still amazes me how some people think things come sharpened for life SMP. It boggles my mind how many people I know that don t have a clue how to sharpen a knife but carry one every day.
> 
> That brings me to wonder how many swap planes get used until they re dull then sit on a shelf forever?
> 
> - HokieKen


But this is wonderful. It is a discovery that someone lacks knowledge. I had the worst time with planes and I too just left mine to collect dust out of frustration. It's getting better as I learn more. I thought it was new, it was sharp. I didn't have any training in hand tools even when I took shop class in 7th grade mumble years ago. My dad was a plumber so planes weren't tools he used except occasionally and then it wasn't when I was there. He knew how to sharpen a knife and so I did as well… by hand with an oil stone and 3in1 oil, but it never occurred to me about the plane blade. Old saws? No idea either, but I learned from the Paul Sellers video. Got some files from Lee Valley, did a hack job on a handsaw and it cuts better. Still need more practice.

This is ignorance. This is a good thing. This is a teachable moment which means a moment of discovery for someone and you can share in teaching them or guiding them to resources so that they will learn and in turn teach others around them! Lumberjocks and YouTube have been places where I have learned so many new things and my first swap was an eye opener on finishing that newly turned marking knife I made. I STILL have issues getting my plane and chisel blades sharp properly but I believe I have come across a method that will be repeatable for me from now on and will be working on it this week.

For personal reasons I haven't been able to participate in the last few swaps which is regretful, but I am looking at my life and schedule and am seriously considering joining in this one to help force myself to try a few new things.

I got a hand plane is a previous swap. I don't use it a lot mainly because I haven't been doing a lot of woodworking but I still take it out and practice on a few boards with it because it's fun and … well… I need practice and it is sharp! Made a router plane in a previous swap and I think this time I can apply what I've learned since and do better.

ADDITIONAL RESOURCE LINKS:
Previous swap: Shop Made Tool Swap - 2015: Hand Planes and Spokeshaves
Tagged projects: https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/tag/passwap2015


----------



## DavePolaschek

Hope you can find the time and motivation to join in, Steven!

Kenny, I tune tenons and rabbets with a Veritas skew block plane, which does a pretty dang good job, except for the fact that there's that sharp corner of the blade that's almost always trying to take a bite out of me. My defenses are currently about half keeping my fingers away from that blade, and half building up a callous from when it does bite me.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Hope you can find the time and motivation to join in, Steven!
> 
> Kenny, I tune tenons and rabbets with a Veritas skew block plane, which does a pretty dang good job, except for the fact that there's that sharp corner of the blade that's almost always trying to take a bite out of me. My defenses are currently about half keeping my fingers away from that blade, and half building up a callous from when it does bite me.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Strip of thin wood with a rebate making a 90 degree angle to cover the outside end of the plane (only needs to be a couple of mil) with a couple of magnets embedded.
Stick it on the plane to cover the outside pointy end.

Still thinking of something that works on wood bodied planes, blu-tack doesn't work well.


----------



## HokieKen

I use a skewed block to do the work too Dave. But, sometimes I wish I had something with a larger surface area on the side and a higher grip. The block will probably always be my go-to for cheeks but I think I could do better on shoulders. Plus, I like new toys ;-)


----------



## DavePolaschek

Mike, the pointy end bites me when I'm using it, either just before taking a swipe down a rabbet or just after when I'm heading back to the other end of the board. Can't cover it up then, since that would keep the plane out of the corner it's supposed to be cleaning up. Probably I just need to hold it better (yes, I'm holding it wrong, Mr. Jobs). Or get a shoulder plane like Kenny says, so I can have yet another tool. Hey, maybe I'll get one in this swap!


----------



## SMP

> I use a skewed block to do the work too Dave. But, sometimes I wish I had something with a larger surface area on the side and a higher grip. The block will probably always be my go-to for cheeks but I think I could do better on shoulders. Plus, I like new toys ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


I read this from Paul, where halfway down he basically says the 92 is the worst Stanley plane he has ever owned, then saw a 90, 92, and 93 at an antique store. I noticed the same thing with the 92 and 93, but I bought the 90 and it has been a great little plane.

https://paulsellers.com/2016/06/plane-no-3-shoulder-plane/


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Mike, the pointy end bites me when I'm using it, either just before taking a swipe down a rabbet or just after when I'm heading back to the other end of the board. Can't cover it up then, since that would keep the plane out of the corner it's supposed to be cleaning up. Probably I just need to hold it better (yes, I'm holding it wrong, Mr. Jobs). Or get a shoulder plane like Kenny says, so I can have yet another tool. Hey, maybe I'll get one in this swap!
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Ah Thought you meant you got bit by the pointy end of the plane to the side opposite the wood.

I always stick my thumb on this bit.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Well, on the Veritas, the pointy end is on the left, but the pointy end of a skew rabbet plane is the one you want in the corner, which I suspect is where some of the difficulty comes from. But then I'm ambidextrous-ish, and Plane using either hand, sometimes alternating hands (and the two faces of a rabbet) as I go from one end of the board to the other, walking back and forth along the bench… I suspect all that switching around is a part of my problem.


----------



## EarlS

Perfect bandsaw for Grant or Kenny, maybe Chris or Keebler?


----------



## HokieKen

I wouldn't kick it out of bed Earl…


----------



## bigblockyeti

Here's another:
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2732178620374764/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Ab9dac8ad-612e-4c2e-aa86-b8e26238a29b

The seller's definition of "In Great Shape" and "All Parts Are With" differ slightly from mine but it has potential and would be way cool restored.


----------



## Mosquito

I've wanted a WT 16 for some time, but I think when it came down to it, I would probably have to pass anyway. What I really want is more resaw capacity, but don't really need a wider saw. I may just hunt for a riser block for my Delta 14" instead


----------



## HokieKen

I have a riser block in my 14" Grizzly and it's well worth it for the resaw height capacity Mos. But, it does introduce some flex into the frame. A bigger saw would be more rigid but if you're like me, space is the bigger concern so I'll stick with the saw/riser I have.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, exactly Kenny, if I were to get a bigger saw (like 18-20") with bigger resaw, it would probably mean I'd have to sell both of my old Deltas, one of which is on a cast iron base… and I'm not sure I'm ready for that yet lol I do need to replace the start capacitor (I hope that's all it is) in the rip saw though, it doesn't like to start up. Usually have to use the push block to get the blade moving first before turning the switch on.

I'm still on the fence about the swap…


----------



## HokieKen

Be a man Mos. Nut up and put that push stick away ;-)


----------



## clieb91

I honestly would not mind a second saw so that I can set up one for resaw and one for boxes. I don't have the power available for a saw like that though. One of these days.

CtL


----------



## Mosquito

lol that would be a bad example Kenny (I do… more often than I should probably admit lol)

Chris, that's how I've got mine set up (though I've not done bandsaw boxes yet). One with a 5/8" 3 TPI blade and the other with a 1/4" 6tpi I think it is.

Third one has a 20tpi metal blade in it, and gets used for non-wood things like aluminum and acrylic


----------



## EricFai

After some thought on this, I'm in.
Not sure what type of plane, but I can try to meet the demands.


----------



## DavePolaschek

You need to send the email to be in, Eric. But welcome!

Whoops! Just got the email. Welcome!


----------



## EricFai

Thanks Dave, 
Now I just need to pick a style.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Welcome, DevinT!

Almost done with my current eggbeater drill restoration, which will clear the bench space for me to start working on my plane project. I figure I need to start early as I might need to ship some metal parts around for machining help from my buddy in MN.

I really need to talk to my neighbor who runs the metal shop class at Santa Fe Community College, but the darn plague…


----------



## JohnMcClure

I bought a work sharp 3000 today. My plane will be sharp if nothing else!


----------



## clieb91

Got a package in the mail today. If I can do what I think I can do with it, I may just be jumping in.

CtL


----------



## DevinT

Thank you Dave. I am excited to try my hand at this.


----------



## Keebler1

Ok have been looking and debating on a lathe. I appreciate those that say buy used but I always have some issues with used and dont want to tinker too much. Jet is having their sale now. I can get the 1840 for $2384. the 1640 is $2069. I can get the lathe extension to do outboard turning for the lathes to allow me to turn a bigger bowl for 260 now which makes the 1640 $50 cheaper. the extension is $290 regularly so it is still a $20 savings if I wait to get it. the 1640 is 115V 1.5hp and the 1840 is 2hp 220V. Is the extra 1/2 hp worth the extra $50? Right now I dont see needing the extra height for a bowl but that may change. I am kinda leaning towards the 1840 but wanted to see what yall thought. heading out Saturday to order around 1300 or so.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

1840 so you never regret it. "Get the biggest lathe you can afford" has been said more times than I know how to count.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree. For that little difference, extra hp and more swing is a no brainer to me. Unless the 230V is a problem for you, I wouldn't even consider the smaller one to save $50.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Nice, John! Plus, new toy!

Cool, Chris! Hope you can figure it out.

Good to have you on board, Devin. Devin found one of my woodworking posts on Twitter, and commented about making a plane. "I know just the place for you!"

Go big, Keebs. You don't want to have to upgrade again too soon. Although I think Grant has one that's bigger. ;-) Needs its own V-8 engine, right, Grant?

You going to jump in, Dave? Or is the crafts biz keeping you too busy still?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I'm considering it. House stuff is keeping me busy at the moment but I might jump in. Haven't decided.


----------



## drsurfrat

> 1840 so you never regret it. "Get the biggest lathe you can afford" has been said more times than I know how to count.
> - KelleyCrafts
> 
> I agree. For that little difference, extra hp and more swing is a no brainer to me. Unless the 230V is a problem for you, I wouldn't even consider the smaller one to save $50.
> - - - - - - - Kenny


 +1 … the biggest lathes I have had access to were never 'too big', and many times wanted much more.

Plane Swap - I think I am in. I have two prototypes, so I think I can deliver on at least one. Dave, I will send a PM. If you didn't like my surprise swap surprise, you can 'accidentally' forget to include me.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Dave, let me know if there's anything I can do to help the decision along.

Mike, I'll add you once I get the email.


----------



## HokieKen

Dang. Devin jumped in on day one with 12 projects, 23 posts and the site's sexiest avatar. Good stuff . The Bubinga pieces in your projects are fabulous.


----------



## Mosquito

> and the site's sexiest avatar.
> 
> - HokieKen


Have you forgotten all those "I'm looking for love" spammers? :-D


----------



## DavePolaschek

Didn't you mean the site's *second* sexiest avatar, Kenny?

I've heard from a couple people that Lee-Valley is out of plane kits at the moment. They say they'll have them in stock in early April, so my recommendation is to order now if you think you'll need their kit. And if you have to drop by April 10th, we won't think less of you.

Failing that, go with a Krenov-style plane, or refurb an old Stanley, perhaps. I have a spare Stanley #3 adjuster, frog, blade, and chip-breaker I could send to someone if you're stuck for parts. It's from the "Global Plane" series, so the blade is pretty cheap and thin, and the parts are nothing special, but they might be better than nothing.

Edit to add: this is also why I figured I'd allow spokeshaves, router planes, kerfing planes, and a whole bunch of other types. I'd love to see a Japanese style plane in the swap. For that matter, I've got a mujingfang plane…

Anyway, I don't think the shortage at Lee Valley is the end of the world. They've been pretty good about their ship dates on the stuff I've ordered from them over the past year, and if you're worried about it, there are a lot of backup choices available. Just not ones that are as rookie-friendly. But also check the other sizes. The adjuster in all of the different Lee Valley kits is the same, it's just the blades that vary. And sometimes they're out of PMV-11 blades but have a ton of A-2 available…

I see that the slow adjuster for the bevel-up planes are available from Lee Valley. I think that's the same part as the one in the kit that's backordered… you'd be missing the cup for the adjuster to sit in, but I'm pretty sure I could make one of those if I really needed.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I have a few Lee Valley kits. I can let a couple go if needed.


----------



## Keebler1

$2800 later new jet 1840 vs lathe, supernova chuck and 4" tool rest. Lathe should be here 5/27. Now to get electrical done


----------



## DevinT

How is the shipping from Lee Valley? The 1 5/8" PM-V11 kit and 2 1/4" PM-V11 kits become available Apr 2, but is it going to take 3 weeks to get it? I am so disillusioned by the state of our mail system these days, it seems like anything non-Amazon gets bottom priority. Not to mention that Lee Valley has to ship international to me in the States.


----------



## HokieKen

I've never known the transit time to be any longer from LV than anywhere else (excluding amazon) Devin. IIRC, they ship UPS and not USPS so it tends to happen quicker. That wouldn't be as big of a question mark for me as the "back in stock" date. I ordered a saw filing guide in the spring last year and finally got it in October. They just kept pushing the restock date out.

Congrats on the lathe Keebs!


----------



## DavePolaschek

Lee Valley ships from somewhere in upstate NY for orders from the states, IIRC. And they added a Reno, NV distribution center for the left half of the country a couple years ago, so your kit will just have to come downhill on I-80, Devin.

But if you're worried, Dave Kelley said he had some spares, and he ships from Arizona.

Congrats on the lathe, Keebs.

I just spent a couple hours making the stuff I turned (wet) last weekend close to round again. Two of the three bowls are dry enough to finish, and one was still noticeably moist in the bottom, so I got it down to about 3/8" thick and they'll all sit to dry for another week or two. At least I got everything thin enough this time that there was no cracking as things dried out. Woohoo!


----------



## DevinT

Thanks for the responses.

So, I found this (below) in the HPOYD thread … should I really be limiting materials to $40? The cheapest kit Lee Valley sells is $47.50 USD (O1 or A2 @ 1 5/8").

I honestly had not thought about a cap on materials that went into the project.

I think I definitely want to take someone up on their kit offer. I do prefer PM-V11 if you have it-I just want to make sure you're compensated appropriately.



> Looks like some interest for the HPOYD Secret Santa 2021
> I propose the following:
> 
> "Registration" will be open through March. Register by shooting me an e-mail at [email protected] that contains your LJ username, your real name, and your mailing address. Also let me know if you ARE NOT willing to ship to Canada. I'll send out name assignments first week of April.
> Secret Santa will only be open to members in North America (US and Canada). Shipping and customs can get very convoluted and expensive going overseas unfortunately.
> Rules as follows:
> Spending cap of $40 USD (Canadians use the current exchange rate when you purchase your plane). Any shipping costs to get the plane and to send the plane to your recipient are your responsibility and are outside of the spending cap. $40 has to cover the full package though. Any replacement parts etc. must be included. In other words do not spend more than $40 excluding shipping. If you have replacement parts on-hand, you must include them in your spending at a reasonable market price.
> If you already possess a plane you would like to send instead of buying another, that is perfectly fine. If that's the case though, you should be able to remember how much you paid for it and know it was less than $40. If you don't know what you paid for it, you should be confident that if you were to shop for the same plane on Ebay etc. you would be able to purchase another for $40.
> You can send any plane (or planes) you wish but it must be a plane or directly plane-related. A jointer fence or shooting board or set of cutters for a combination plane are types of things I would consider plane-related. As far as defining what is a plane, I'll leave it up to each person to decide. Cabinet scrapers? Spokeshaves? I think those qualify. But you can decide for yourself.
> The plane you send doesn't have to be complete but does have to be usable in the condition you send it in. You can send a fillester plane that's missing depth stops and the fence because it can be used as a shoulder plane. You can't send a fillester plane without a blade though.
> You don't have to consider your time or consumables in your spending (but certainly can if you wish). So if you buy a crusty but complete vintage plane for $40 then spend 6 hours, a few sheets of sandpaper and a rattle can of enamel rehabbing it, you've still met the $40 spending cap. If you spend $40 on a vintage plane and then pay Don W or Sansoo to rehab it for you though, you're a damn cheater ;-)
> Your plane should be shipped to your recipient sometime after Thanksgiving but in time to arrive before Christmas. This will make sure that everyone receives their gift around the same time. #When you receive a plane in the mail, post some pictures here for the rest of us to see and tell us who sent it to you.
> If you sign up, don't forget you signed up ;-) If for some reason you wish to drop out, please inform me ASAP because it will require re-shuffling some names around. So just don't drop out.
> So that's what I'm thinking. It's definitely a democracy so if you have any better suggestions/ammendments/revisions I'm all ears!
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## DavePolaschek

I don't worry about the materials cost limit. Shipping prices have almost doubled since then, and we haven't had a limit on the swaps since I've started participating in them. On the surprise swaps (where anything goes), a medium flat rate box is sort of the guideline for size, but plenty of people don't pay any attention to that, either.


----------



## Mosquito

The secret Santa from HPOYD is a completely separate thing that came from some previous conversations on that thread. It's not about making a plane necessarily, it's about finding or refurbing one for under $40 to send to a fellow HPOYD frequenter around Christmas/Holiday time.

This swap is mostly about making something, though you could refurb one if you wanted to as well.


----------



## DevinT

Thanks. That clears things up.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, what Mos' said Devin. I'm organizing a Secret Santa in the HPOYD thread but it will go on all year and is more of a contest to see who can send the coolest plane without breaking the $40 spending cap. Nothing to do with this swap ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Just picked up some wood for my plane. Just need a paint scraper and some drywall screws now.


----------



## Mosquito

lol that's some pretty expensive wood for a plane you're giving away Kenny… might want to consider something cheaper, like Cherry


----------



## drsurfrat

hehe

That is the perfect wood to go with a high tech *aluminum* blade…


----------



## HokieKen

Good point Mos. My wife decided I needed to use it to finish framing in the big gaping hole I made in the ceiling…









Which, by the way, I've been working on since 9am. 12 hours and still counting. This kind of crap is why it's hard to commit to a swap.

Grumble grumble grumble.


----------



## Mosquito

which begs the question, why would you bother starting things like that in the first place?


----------



## Keebler1

Looks like too much work Kenny join the swap so you can tell your wife you dont have time to do that


----------



## HokieKen

Because after discussing it for a year, my wife decided this past week that we needed to add a second AC unit and handler tos service our second floor. And the only weekend the HVAC guy had was next weekend to do it before summer when his rate goes up because he hates crawling into hot attics. So I had the option of unstacking and moving the washer and dryer so he can access the existing attic access or cutting in a new one.

I thought I chose the easier path. I didn't. Forgot the ceiling joists run the wrong direction and didn't anticipate the plumbing vent being in the center of my cutout.

Mr. Murphy has been conspicuously present today and my butt hurts.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Well, Kenny, that wood must've belonged to someone else, anyhow. Said "Stud" on the side of it. ;-)


----------



## mikeacg

I wouldn't worry about the $40 limit Devin! I usually spend more than that on shipping!

Mike


----------



## DevinT

Thanks Mike et. al.


----------



## DevinT

Nooooooooo….

I went to go check out and purchase a 2 1/4" PM-V11 kit from Lee Valley and as I went from the product page to my cart the delay changed from Apr 2 to July 2. Go back to the product page and click refresh and now all the 2" blade kits and all the 2 1/4" blade kits are showing July 2. The only kit left is the 1 5/8" but I wanted to build a fore plane for the swap.

/me regroups

The slow Norris adjuster is an option, but alas I wouldn't have the cup. Oh dear. Hmmm.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Are the wider blades alone available? The 1⅝ kit will work fine with a wider blade (or even a bevel-up blade, as far as I know). You'll just have a spare blade on hand.

Edit to add: you'll need to supply your own wider brass rod, but any hardware store should have that.


----------



## HokieKen

I can make you a brass cup if that's all you come up short Devin.


----------



## DevinT

Now, I am debating on going Norris Infill, but I think that might be a little elaborate for a swap (might be dangerous to pry it from my hands once it's made)

EDIT: I am looking at the St. James Bay Tool Co. steel dovetail infill kits at http://www.stjamesbaytoolco.com-would that require welding? I'm having a hard time imagining how the steel dovetails come together.


----------



## SMP

> Now, I am debating on going Norris Infill, but I think that might be a little elaborate for a swap (might be dangerous to pry it from my hands once it s made)
> 
> EDIT: I am looking at the St. James Bay Tool Co. steel dovetail infill kits at http://www.stjamesbaytoolco.com-would that require welding? I m having a hard time imagining how the steel dovetails come together.
> 
> - DevinT


Usually they are dovetailed and peened/filed to lock in place. I think it was popular woodworking that had a good article on making a dovetailed shoulder plane. You can google and find some of the pages but if you want the full plans you have to buy for $13.

Edit: found it(this has been on my to do list a couple years)
https://www.woodsmithplans.com/plan/dovetailed-shoulder-plane/


----------



## Lazyman

Most of the dovetail planes I've seen are peened - no welding required.


----------



## DevinT

Aha! That makes perfect sense. Thank you!


----------



## JohnMcClure

Kenny, I sympathize. I've been doing plumbing for 4 weekends at least. These things just get harder as you get further into the project.

Swappers, I'm going to have to get serious and order some blades! I have what I thought was a good plan for a plane but you guys are here discussing adjustment mechanisms so I may be thinking too simplistically… 
Heck I still haven't chosen a type of plane to make! Hate watching videos but maybe I should look to YouTube for some inspiration…


----------



## drsurfrat

Tried and true adjusting mechanism:










At least is seems that way, I have fully adjustable iron planes that have the top of the blade peened over.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Lol dr Mike!

Eked out a bit of shop time this morning, not plane-related. Step 1 was converting a piece of 5"x24" cherry into 2 pieces of 7"x7" cherry, got them both glued up with oversized clamps:


----------



## DavePolaschek

> EDIT: I am looking at the St. James Bay Tool Co. steel dovetail infill kits at http://www.stjamesbaytoolco.com-would that require welding? I m having a hard time imagining how the steel dovetails come together.


Here's a build from Bill Carter (one of the best still-active planemakers) showing how a metal-bodied miter plane goes together.

Pretty involved for a first plane, but he knocks them out pretty quickly.


----------



## Lazyman

Bill Carter also has a comprehensive video playlist that shows the entire process of making a metal miter plane. A long series but pretty interesting to see the technique involved.


----------



## donwilwol

> Most of the dovetail planes I've seen are peened - no welding required.
> 
> - Lazyman


https://www.timetestedtools.net/2015/02/07/making-the-dw-infills-lets-do-some-tapping-and-peening/


----------



## DevinT

Though I imagine it is easy, I haven't the experience nor tools for peening [yet] (I imagine I would need at-a-minimum a ball-peen hammer, anvil, and/or a machinists vise). All things I should come to own eventually, but I agree that it is likely a bit much for my first plane.


----------



## bndawgs

I think I'm set on walnut for a while


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thanks for the additional link, Don! You've a wealth of information!


----------



## DavePolaschek

Well. If I'm going to try multi-axis turning, I maybe shouldn't try with the axes *quite* so far apart on my first attempt…










Finished up with my bookcase for the day early today, so I took an hour to play with the lathe and make a mess. Definitely learned something.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Ok plane swapper dudes. I haven't been able to get to the shop for a few days but I'm in here heat treating something for Kenny and looked for the stuff I could part with if anyone needs it. I'm not in need of cash and don't care if they sell, just trying to help some guys out that might be scrambling.

Lee Valley wood plane kits. $80 shipped to U.S. they are 2 1/4" wide PM-V11 blades on both of them. Not looking to make money on this stuff. I think this setup is $72?? on the website. I just don't want to eat the shipping.










I also have these plane parts perfect for a Krenov. I used one of these kits in a previous swap years ago. $35 shipped. Blade is 1.5" wide.










If you get back to me in the next few hours I can ship tonight, otherwise it'll be a day or two.

Dave


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thanks for offering those, Dave! Swappers, if you need parts, there you go!


----------



## KelleyCrafts

No problem. Not making any money on them, just helping out. If you all don't need them, I'm happy to keep them.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Oh, I have three sets of the Krenov kits and two of the Lee Valley sets I'm willing to part with. First come first serve.


----------



## HokieKen

Quit trying to help these clowns and get my blades done ;-)

That really is a good offer if anyone wants a top notch blade. Can't beat the PM-V11 and who knows when LV will actually have stock again.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I'm working on it. Waiting for this to heat up but your blades are in there.


----------



## HokieKen

Gets me hot just looking at it


----------



## EarlS

Dave - you are tempting me BUT I got permission to build a real bench this spring so I will be busy with it this spring. No band saw (yet) or drill press, either. I do think I'm going to be able to sneak a Benchcrafted leg vise, and maybe a moxon or tail vise into the build without getting busted. I'll make sure and mumble when she asks what the vise(s) cost. Best part, Benchcrafted is based in Cedar Rapids, IA, about an hour and a half from here. Always nice to support local businesses.

I get a shudder when I see Kenny talking about getting heated…..


----------



## SMP

> Dave - you are tempting me BUT I got permission to build a real bench this spring so I will be busy with it this spring. No band saw (yet) or drill press, either. I do think I m going to be able to sneak a Benchcrafted leg vise, and maybe a moxon or tail vise into the build without getting busted. I ll make sure and mumble when she asks what the vise(s) cost. Best part, Benchcrafted is based in Cedar Rapids, IA, about an hour and a half from here. Always nice to support local businesses.
> 
> I get a shudder when I see Kenny talking about getting heated…..
> 
> - EarlS


The only thing I can afford from Benchcrafted is the planing stop


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Ok, my post must have sparked some other "wants" which led to PMs. I now have three packages I'm dropping to usps and nobody has stolen any of the plane kits from me.

Works for me. If you PMed me your stuff is on it's way to the PO in about 5 minutes.

If you want any of the plane stuff then hit me up and I'll get it to the PO in the next few days, plenty of time for this swap.


----------



## SMP

The $80 kit is just add wood?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Yep. Everything else you need is there plus instructions. I've used that kit for a dovetailed infill (see my projects) so it doesn't have to be just wood if you want to get fancy.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Fwiw, both kits are just add wood. The Lee valley kit has a really nice Norris adjuster with it so the plane is pretty nice. The other lit has everything you need to make a Krenov plane.

Two different plane types but both work well. The Norris adjuster is obviously a lot nicer but tapping a blade in place isn't bad once you get the hang of it.


----------



## HokieKen

It's actually surprisingly easy to adjust a plane with a hammer after just a little practice. I definitely prefer the norris style adjuster for simplicity but wouldn't be upset if I got a Krenov style plane either.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Agreed Kenny. Like you said before, I think all bench planes should have the Norris adjuster. I like it better than Stanley's adjuster setup.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Looks like both of the Lee Valley kits are likely spoken for pending payment.

The other Krenov kits are still up for grabs if you're in need.


----------



## DevinT

Has anyone ever thought of putting threaded inserts into the sides and/or front/rear of the plane body to allow for 1/4-20 machine bolts to be used for attaching either a fence to the side or guide forks to the front/back of the plane for centering/squaring the plane against the edge of a board while jointing? Just a thought.


----------



## SMP

> Has anyone ever thought of putting threaded inserts into the sides and/or front/rear of the plane body to allow for 1/4-20 machine bolts to be used for attaching either a fence to the side or guide forks to the front/back of the plane for centering/squaring the plane against the edge of a board while jointing? Just a thought.
> 
> - DevinT


You mean like the rabbet and skew block planes etc? Yeah quite a few have those. Some of the Veritas planes. But IMO you are better off just getting the Veritas magnetic fence for that. You can buy that specialty plane too, like the Stanley 95. I was once at a Lie Nielsen event and considering getting their 95, and one of the guys working basically told me I should learn how to do it and build the skill instead of depending on a "crutch" lol.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

The Lee Valley kits are back in play. So both are still available.


----------



## HokieKen

> Has anyone ever thought of putting threaded inserts into the sides and/or front/rear of the plane body to allow for 1/4-20 machine bolts to be used for attaching either a fence to the side or guide forks to the front/back of the plane for centering/squaring the plane against the edge of a board while jointing? Just a thought.
> 
> - DevinT


I have a vintage fence that attaches to my vintage planes with cam clamps. Works quite well. I only know that from testing it. I've never actually used it. Probably should some day since I spent money on it…


----------



## SMP

> I have a vintage fence that attaches to my vintage planes with cam clamps. Works quite well. I only know that from testing it. I ve never actually used it. Probably should some day since I spent money on it…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


I've almost bought one of those a couple times but resisted, ever since the Lie Nielsen guy basically told me to get good.


----------



## DevinT

> You mean like the rabbet and skew block planes etc? Yeah quite a few have those. Some of the Veritas planes. But IMO you are better off just getting the Veritas magnetic fence for that. You can buy that specialty plane too, like the Stanley 95. I was once at a Lie Nielsen event and considering getting their 95, and one of the guys working basically told me I should learn how to do it and build the skill instead of depending on a "crutch" lol.
> 
> - SMP


For a side-fence, sure, like a rabbet plane, or fillister plane, or plough/plow plane.

I don't know how I feel about the magnetic fences. Wouldn't they damage a metal plane by leaving marks over time? Also, this is for a wooden plane I am building, so if I was to use magnets I would have to embed some into the body just the same as I am considering threaded inserts.

As for "forks" in the front ahead of the toe and in back behind the heel, it does sound like a crutch when you think that most people will just use a finger riding on the perpendicular face to center the plane. However, this idea came into play because I was contemplating making a long and thin plane that might be unwieldy to keep the blade engaged if the wood was close to the width of the blade. You may be right that it's a crutch, but that's why I was thinking threaded inserts so they could be removed. However, more interestingly, I also thought that instead of a fork attachment in these places, one could make attachments to maintain an angle. Just thinking outside the box a little.

If anyone can think of any features for ideas on my plane for the swap that they'd like to see done which is unique and never been done before, I am all ears.


----------



## HokieKen

The fence I showed is adjustable for any angle from 0-90 degrees so it can be used to put bevels on the edges of boards. Which is what most people use them for I think SMP. Moreso than for jointing a dead square edge. Though I must admit, that I get tired of chasing the constant little bit of twist I seem to inevitably plane into edges when I four-square a board by hand. Especially a board that's a little on the thinner side. So I usually just get it flat and close to square and then rip both edges on the table saw. I enjoy hand tools but when they get frustrating, I plug something in and make some noise ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> As for "forks" in the front ahead of the toe and in back behind the heel, it does sound like a crutch when you think that most people will just use a finger riding on the perpendicular face to center the plane. However, this idea came into play because I was contemplating making a long and thin plane that might be unwieldy to keep the blade engaged if the wood was close to the width of the blade….
> 
> - DevinT


Makes sense but I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "forks". Seems like if your fence was adjustable (like the one on a fillister or rabbet plane) it would solve the problem of keeping the board centered on the blade? If you're making a wooden plane, I don't see any downside at all to adding some threaded inserts for attachments. If you went as far as squaring the sides to the sole, you could also use the threads to attach auxiliary handles to one side to use it for shooting.


----------



## DevinT

Kenny,

Imagine a U shape. Turn it upside down. Place it at the front of the plane. Take the plane over to a panel and set the plane on the edge you wish to joint, wherein the upside-down U attached to the front of the plane straddles either side of the panel's edge.

Now, if you plane like Rob Cosman where you don't lift the plane when you pull it back, you could literally push the plane with a single hand, pull your shavings out mid-push, and still stay centered on the board.

Of course, the forks would disengage in the front when you pass the end of the board, but you would have a set of complementary forks in the back.

The forks would not be snug against the panel. Imagine the panel is 3/4", the blade is 1 5/8", the plane is 2 1/4", and the distance between the legs of the fork is 2". It wouldn't exactly be hard to get the board back into the leading fork when you pull back on the plane.

Yeah, it's basically training wheels … but again I'm thinking about making a thin jointer with a 1 5/8" blade instead of the normal 2 1/4" to 2 5/8" jointer blade you'd find in a 7 or 8.

ASIDE: Because the forks are not snug against the material you'd be jointing, one could perform a limited skew (imagine like a mortise center-finding jig)

EDIT: So if you're using the forks to perform a limited skew, then they serve to allow you to drop the angle of the blade while still keeping it fully engaged


----------



## DevinT

Kenny, Good point about the shooting grip!


----------



## GrantA

Wow I haven't checked in for a few days or so and had 88 replies to catch up on. 
Looks like you guys are well on your way to making some cool planes, I got a new toy- er, ride and have been enjoying it when I'm not at the desk or in the shop. No lid so it's like a motorcycle with doors and seat belts ;-p









I'm at the beach with it now 








It was a cold ride down Sunday night after some rain!









Any jeep guys in here??


----------



## HokieKen

I follow you now Devin. Personally, that would be a no-go. But a thin jointer isn't something I've ever considered either so maybe?


----------



## Keebler1

Take the doors off that thing Grant


----------



## SMP

> Kenny,
> 
> Imagine a U shape. Turn it upside down. Place it at the front of the plane. Take the plane over to a panel and set the plane on the edge you wish to joint, wherein the upside-down U attached to the front of the plane straddles either side of the panel s edge.
> 
> Now, if you plane like Rob Cosman where you don t lift the plane when you pull it back, you could literally push the plane with a single hand, pull your shavings out mid-push, and still stay centered on the board.
> 
> Of course, the forks would disengage in the front when you pass the end of the board, but you would have a set of complementary forks in the back.
> 
> The forks would not be snug against the panel. Imagine the panel is 3/4", the blade is 1 5/8", the plane is 2 1/4", and the distance between the legs of the fork is 2". It wouldn t exactly be hard to get the board back into the leading fork when you pull back on the plane.
> 
> Yeah, it s basically training wheels … but again I m thinking about making a thin jointer with a 1 5/8" blade instead of the normal 2 1/4" to 2 5/8" jointer blade you d find in a 7 or 8.
> 
> ASIDE: Because the forks are not snug against the material you d be jointing, one could perform a limited skew (imagine like a mortise center-finding jig)
> 
> EDIT: So if you re using the forks to perform a limited skew, then they serve to allow you to drop the angle of the blade while still keeping it fully engaged
> 
> - DevinT


That was probably made at some point and evolved into the 95 style. Its better to have a single side to a fork, as a fork is gojng to limit you, whereas an L works up to the width of the iron. Also when using hand tools, its typical to flatten on face and then square one edge to that known good face.

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/products/1-95-rt-bronze-edge-plane


----------



## GrantA

Nah I like the half doors Keebler. Especially with Bo in there. Yeah he can jump out over em but it gives a little bit of a barrier. With no doors he'd be jumping in and out all the time


----------



## DavePolaschek

Wow. Busy morning around here.

Devin, I've seen holes tapped in the sides of planes more than once. Never seen forks, though. Any training wheels are usually one-side only.

All I did this morning was start turning some osage orange for the first time, and now my shop is yellow. It's kinda pretty…


----------



## DevinT

Dave,

Snap a pic!

I surfaced some Bocote many weeks ago and my shop still has that faint smell of dill pickle and I love it.


----------



## SMP

> Dave,
> 
> Snap a pic!
> 
> I surfaced some Bocote many weeks ago and my shop still has that faint smell of dill pickle and I love it.
> 
> - DevinT


Last time I turned bocote, about an hour later my forearms felt like i got in a fight with a poison ivy plant.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Yellow:


----------



## GrantA

I still can't believe Dave is using a lathe with a tail. Pffft Where's the treadle??

Next thing we know you'll have one of those newfangled electric jointers!


----------



## HokieKen

> Last time I turned bocote, about an hour later my forearms felt like i got in a fight with a poison ivy plant.
> 
> - SMP


I can't work with Rosewood at all anymore for the same reason. And every time I have used it, I get a little more sensitive to it. Last time my eyes swelled shut for two days. Love the wood but I know when I'm beat :-(


----------



## DevinT

After planing the Bocote it took a while to clean up


----------



## DevinT

How it turned out


----------



## DavePolaschek

Well, I covered it up with spanish cedar dust and shavings this afternoon.

Grant, I'm not coordinated enough to pump a treadle with one foot while thinking about turning. I keep tipping over.


----------



## drsurfrat

Kenny allergic to rosewood?! Ach, that is like Beethoven going deaf. At least you're not allergic to cast iron.


----------



## doubleG469

So looks like I may have ruptured (re-ruptured) my L4 L5 (getting old sucks). Will know more tomorrow after docs read the MRI, but in my medical opinion as I caught view of the MRI tech burning the disk. Yep they are ruptured. Let's see if the highly paid/trained fellow agrees with my diagnosis.

No shop time/turning for me for a few…. But I am still in. Even if I have to pay Nathan to help me.


----------



## clieb91

Wow, been bust around here. I walk away for a few days and come back to close to 80 messages. Look like folks are on the way to some nice planes. I am still trying to decide.

The wood that I found that gets me is Leopardwood. Played with it once and that was enough.

Gary, That does not sound fun.

CtL


----------



## HokieKen

At least it's just the dust Mike. I can still handle it as long as somebody else cuts and sands it. And fortunately, so far, it's only Bolovian Rosewood so far. No problems with Cocobolo which is my favorite


----------



## GrantA

I found a plane!


----------



## HokieKen

After only 4 days…


----------



## EricFai

Dave, it looks a little like it's around the house here, with all of the yellow dust. Pine pollen is getting bad around here, my black truck has that wonderful yellow tint.


----------



## Woodmaster1

I was cleaning the shop today and found a couple of plane irons. So the next step is to figure out what type of plane to make.


----------



## DevinT

I wonder if Stanley/Record ever made a No 71.

We could call it the SR-71


----------



## Lazyman

> At least it's just the dust Mike. I can still handle it as long as somebody else cuts and sands it. And fortunately, so far, it's only Bolovian Rosewood so far. No problems with Cocobolo which is my favorite
> 
> - HokieKen


Well if you have to remove all your rosewood plane handles someday, I can always trade you for some 3D printed replacements. I can even use one of the wood impregnated filaments.


----------



## duckmilk

> So looks like I may have ruptured (re-ruptured) my L4 L5 (getting old sucks). Will know more tomorrow after docs read the MRI, but in my medical opinion as I caught view of the MRI tech burning the disk. Yep they are ruptured. Let s see if the highly paid/trained fellow agrees with my diagnosis.
> 
> No shop time/turning for me for a few…. But I am still in. Even if I have to pay Nathan to help me.
> 
> - doubleG469


Dang Gary, no bueno. L4-L5 is a troublesome spot for those issues.

Only 4 days to get the stairs in Kenny? You're much faster than me.

Been away for a while, much going on including a 5 day bout with something digestive. Had an hour long talk with a guy about buying an additional 4 acres adjoining my property. I'll see how that works.

Off topic, saw this video from TX Parks and Wildlife about the feral hog problem in the state. Thought some of you might find it interesting.


----------



## HokieKen

My plane handles are all Cocobolo Nathan. Nothing but the good stuff for Millers Falls! Actually, I have a few that are "tropical hardwood" from wartime production. But I have some Cocobolo being delivered tomorrow that will remedy that 

Actually, I take that back. My 45 and 46 do have Rosewood handles. But unless I have to sand them I should be okay….


----------



## HokieKen

Hola Duck! Long time buddy. Hope the guts are squared away bud.


----------



## HokieKen

> I wonder if Stanley/Record ever made a No 71.
> 
> We could call it the SR-71
> 
> - DevinT


I think that one "flew" over everyone's head ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

Literally and at Mach 3.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Gary, no bueno, indeed. I've had three discs where they've gone in and cut off the jelly that smooshed out of the jelly donut. Feel better, bud!

Duck, good to see you. Thanks for the video. I'm eating wild boar bacon as fast as I can.

Eric, we've got juniper pollen everywhere around here already. 30mph winds are sending it to Texas, though.

Devin, not sure about an SR-71, but I've touched A-12 article #127 which sits down in Huntsville.


----------



## SMP

> I wonder if Stanley/Record ever made a No 71.
> 
> We could call it the SR-71
> 
> - DevinT


I used to have one of those when I worked the graveyard shift at the cabinet shop. That thing would sing in the dead of night!


----------



## JohnMcClure

Tried to catch up here, I'm sure I've missed something good.
Kenny I'm glad you finished the attic access,looks great and I love the aluminum ladder.

Gary, Duck, sorry about the health issues. Duck I can sympathize with yours; Gary (and Dave in the past) that sounds just… terrible.

Devin regardless of what Kenny says if you make me a plane purpose-built for jointing, I'll appreciate it and probably even use it! I like the innovative idea and dont trust myself to hand-joint an edge square.

I need to set aside some time and order blades… thing is now I see you guys have strong preferences about the adjusting mechanism. I was going to do something better than wedge-and-hammer but not much more so. Perhaps I must rethink this.
And still haven't decided on a type of plane to make… I won't know if its any good until its finished!

Things are super busy here: new work situation which is awesome but much much busier, new baby in 5 weeks, and tons of medical and other things going on in the family at the moment.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Wow, so many posts! The more I read from everyone, the more I realize what little knowledge I have of planes. Many times I think you guys, (and girls) are speaking a foreign language. Since I have and use only one plane, a small block plane, this swap may be well beyond my skills and knowledge. I'm not saying no yet but it's not looking good for me. Even after watching a dozen videos.


----------



## HokieKen

> ....
> 
> Devin regardless of what Kenny says, *adhere to it blindly*...
> 
> - JohnMcClure


Fixed that for you John.


----------



## DavePolaschek

John, sounds like a plan. Especially with all the changes.

Jeff, that's why I allowed router planes and spokeshaves, too. They're simpler beasts, and something even a beginner can make and make useful. And heck, I have two router planes and if I'm doing a project with a lot of grooves, I'll have them both out and set up differently. Scraper planes are another useful type that are a lot less fussy to build and set up. Don't count yourself out yet, buddy!


----------



## SMP

> John, sounds like a plan. Especially with all the changes.
> 
> Jeff, that's why I allowed router planes and spokeshaves, too. They're simpler beasts, and something even a beginner can make and make useful. And heck, I have two router planes and if I'm doing a project with a lot of grooves, I'll have them both out and set up differently. Scraper planes are another useful type that are a lot less fussy to build and set up. Don't count yourself out yet, buddy!
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


I'll add to that for anyone that does veneering, a toothing plane can be valuable. And a toothing plane doesn't need to be as "precise" as a smoothing plane.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Good point, SMP. I don't explicitly mention toothing planes above, but I'd say they're good, too.


----------



## GrantA

OK show of hands who thinks I should get a tannewitz bandsaw tattoo while I'm at the beach? 









Toothing plane sounds useful


----------



## SMP

> OK show of hands who thinks I should get a tannewitz bandsaw tattoo while I m at the beach?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toothing plane sounds useful
> 
> - GrantA


I say go for it. "No Regerts"
That beer looks delicious. IPA?


----------



## HokieKen

Alright, I try to keep my swap projects under wraps usually. But for this one, there seem to be a lot of folks that don't normally use planes. In an effort to make something that will actually get used, I'm gonna tip my hand to some extent.

I've pretty much narrowed the field to either a high-angle smoothing plane or a scraper plane. The high angle smoother is a finish plane that performs well in figured woods or changing grain without tearout. A scraper plane works similarly but takes less of a cut and is intended to smooth the wood only and has no real effect on the thickness/flatness/squareness of the board.

I think both of these are planes that most any woodworker can put to good use even if you only use power tools in your shop. *So my question is, if you were getting one or the other, which would you want?*

I'll take all comments under careful consideration, weigh all the options, then do whatever the hell I please.


----------



## HokieKen

Grant's at the beach day drinking. Must be Wednesday.


----------



## GrantA

And I just had some mahi tacos yum!


----------



## DevinT

Ken, I work with exotics and a lot of them have reversing and rip grain so I would love it if I got a high angle smoother in the swap. That also gives me an idea to make one for my swap entry.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Thanks for losing weight and getting waxed before making that one Grant.


----------



## SMP

> Alright, I try to keep my swap projects under wraps usually. But for this one, there seem to be a lot of folks that don t normally use planes. In an effort to make something that will actually get used, I m gonna tip my hand to some extent.
> 
> I ve pretty much narrowed the field to either a high-angle smoothing plane or a scraper plane. The high angle smoother is a finish plane that performs well in figured woods or changing grain without tearout. A scraper plane works similarly but takes less of a cut and is intended to smooth the wood only and has no real effect on the thickness/flatness/squareness of the board.
> 
> I think both of these are planes that most any woodworker can put to good use even if you only use power tools in your shop. *So my question is, if you were getting one or the other, which would you want?*
> 
> I ll take all comments under careful consideration, weigh all the options, then do whatever the hell I please.
> 
> - HokieKen


Well, here is my opinion so take it for what its worth. Most people with half decent sharpening stone and a $12 guide can sharpen a smoothing plane iron so it can split an arm hair.

To sharpen a scraper though I am pretty sure you need to get a PHD in scraperology.


----------



## DevinT

Ken, are you thinking middle, York, or High pitch?


----------



## Keebler1

Turners warehouse weds special 3 jr duke pen kits with bushings $44. Not bad. Been wanting to try them so I ordered it.


----------



## GrantA

Dave that was the dude next to me.
We've got some serious participants I see, just scrolling past the shenanigans

There's time to break them yet


----------



## donwilwol

I'm not in the swap Ken, so my vote doesn't count, but for an opinion, I'd look at it like this, scrapers are a dime a dozen. They come in all different shape sizes and colors. High angle smoothers though, are much much harder to come by.


----------



## HokieKen

Scrapers are easy SMP. Just takes a little practice. Scraper plane blades are even easier because you hone in a bevel and only roll a burr one direction. Really, you could get by without even burnishing. You just don't polish the back side of the edge to remove the burr that honing rolled up 

Devin, probably somewhere between york and middle. Would depend on a lot of design factors to nail it down. Blade thickness/composition/hardness come into play as well.


----------



## Mosquito

I'd combine what SMP and Don say, and second that.


----------



## DavePolaschek

And Kenny is officially in. I'd prefer the high angle smoother if it works. But scraper if it includes homework.



> Grant's at the beach day drinking. Must be Wednesday.


I was gonna go with "day that ends in Y," myself.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Looks like you're making one of these Kenny, no pressure


----------



## GrantA

Ooooooh that's sexy Mike!

Anybody near northern (I think) VA even thinking they want a jointer that'll stand the test of time check out this one! It won't last


----------



## bndawgs

Must have already sold. I'm in the area and could use a jointer. Or at least the eccentric bushings for a Delta 6" parallelogram one.


----------



## bndawgs

I found the listing. Your link didn't work for some reason.

Man, if those were long tables I would be interested. Maybe an hour from me.


----------



## HokieKen

Mine will likely have more metal and less wood Mike ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Here's another piece of inspiration:









Not necessarily a match plane but just the overall design.


----------



## DevinT

Ken, I found its companion:


----------



## SMP

> Here's another piece of inspiration:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily a match plane but just the overall design.
> 
> - HokieKen


If I was riding an escalator and that thing popped out, I would swear it was part of the escalator.


----------



## SMP

> Mine will likely have more metal and less wood Mike ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Hmm, maybe I should break out the welder and make a Mad Max beyond thunderplane


----------



## Woodmaster1

My plane will not even look close to that plane. Mine will look superior to it. (LOL)


----------



## GrantA

Wow y'all are making me want to play in this swap now… Lemme look at the dates again…


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah Devin, it looks like that may be the groover. I like the overall asthetic of that one better. I kinda dig the tote and the knob on the tonguer though. Yeah, I said tonguer.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm deep into phase 1 of my swap build. I call it the "thinkin' and drinkin' stage" 









This stage usually ends about a week before the ship date…


----------



## GrantA

A week? You overachiever


----------



## HokieKen

First teaser. The body of my plane is somewhere in here:


----------



## HokieKen

And the wood parts are somewhere in here:


----------



## SMP

> First teaser. The body of my plane is somewhere in here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


One of them there "scarce" hose planes, for cleaning up the coves on plantation home columns.


----------



## duckmilk

Maybe each of you should make a plane that you would like to have, actually make two, one to send and one to keep. You are going to be well into the making stage before you find out who your recipient is.

I have lots of spring time projects coming up including getting the pastures weed killed and fertilized, fixing fence and filling holes. Plus a dental and 2 dr appointments and a wedding to attend, and some forging projects, so I'll be watching eagerly.


----------



## HokieKen

> One of them there "scarce" hose planes, for cleaning up the coves on plantation home columns.
> 
> - SMP


I wouldn't be shocked if Stanley made one somewhere along the line. I have a plane they described as a "blind wire grooving plane for electricians". For cutting grooves in tbe back of trim to lay wire in. Because none of the other fortyeleven plow planes they made were quite up to that particular task…


----------



## SMP

> One of them there "scarce" hose planes, for cleaning up the coves on plantation home columns.
> 
> - SMP
> 
> I wouldn't be shocked if Stanley made one somewhere along the line. I have a plane they described as a "blind wire grooving plane for electricians". For cutting grooves in tbe back of trim to lay wire in. Because none of the other fortyeleven plow planes they made were quite up to that particular task…
> 
> - HokieKen


Don't laugh but I almost pulled the trigger on Etsy for a Japanese set of tongue and groove planes. I thought they were cool because the tongue and groove is rounded.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't see anything to laugh at about that. That sounds pretty cool actually. I don't have any Japanese planes but they are a whole thong in and of themselves


----------



## SMP

> I don't see anything to laugh at about that. That sounds pretty cool actually. I don't have any Japanese planes but they are a whole thong in and of themselves
> 
> - HokieKen


Here is the listing, this guy's shop is basically all 80s-90s japanese woodworking tools. A lot of cool stuff. I probably would have bought it if I didn't have to explain to my wife why i "needed" it

https://www.etsy.com/listing/975384631/inrou-kanna-japanese-wood-plane?ref=shop_home_active_26&crt=1


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Maybe each of you should make a plane that you would like to have, actually make two, one to send and one to keep. You are going to be well into the making stage before you find out who your recipient is.


Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but that's kinda how I've done all my swaps. Build a prototype for myself, and build the real one to send to someone else. Seems to work pretty well except when I discover some flaw in the plan late in the prototype and have to go to plan B or plan C.


----------



## EarlS

Dave - I borrowed some of your approach and came up with my strategy for the plane swap:



> Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but that's kinda how I'd do this swap. *BUY* a prototype for myself, and *BUY* one to send to someone else. Should work pretty well except if my wife discovers them and I have to go to plan B or plan C.


----------



## HokieKen

Thaose are kinda cool SMP. I wouldn't make fun of you if you bought em ;-) My 45 plane has cutters to make those shapes though so I'll pass.

My plan is to build two in parallel on this one. They may be the same or maybe two different type planes. Then if I screw one up, I still have one to keep rolling with. If they both make it to the finish line, I'll send the nicer one out and keep the other. Worst case, I screw both up beyond repair and rehab one of the vintage planes I have in my "to-do" pile already…


----------



## drsurfrat

> ...
> My plan is to build two in parallel on this one. They may be the same or maybe two different type planes. Then if I screw one up, I still have one to keep rolling with. If they both make it to the finish line, I'll send the nicer one out and keep the other. Worst case, I screw both up beyond repair and rehab one of the vintage planes I have in my "to-do" pile already…
> 
> - HokieKen


That's exactly my plan too. I also like the idea that If I want it enough to make one for me, there's a chance it will be well received, instead of a "plantation column hose plane".


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I'll be really pissed if I get a Plantation Column Hose Plane too. I don't have plantation columns and they would look silly on my house. But if I have a plane, I'll obviously have no choice but to build some….


----------



## SMP

> . But if I have a plane, I ll obviously have no choice but to build some….
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## JohnMcClure

It's on now folks. Just spent a walletfull at Hock Tools, hopefully they have stock of what I ordered.
I've given myself a plan A, B, and C - and some permutations thereof - so there's a very high probability of a successful outcome.
Is there anyone definitely NOT participating, who is knowledgeable enough about plane construction/operation, that I could PM them with a question for a particular design idea?
Perhaps DonW or Dave K?


----------



## Keebler1

John im sure you can PM Dave P with questions. He will just give you someone else as a recipient


----------



## DevinT

John, excellent! That makes an even number of participants now, which I imagine always makes things smoother.


----------



## HokieKen

> John, excellent! That makes an even number of participants now, which I imagine always makes things smoother.
> 
> - DevinT


Nope. We won't be paired off so it doesn't matter ;-) You won't necessarily send to the same person that sends to you.



> It s on now folks. Just spent a walletfull at Hock Tools, hopefully they have stock of what I ordered.
> I ve given myself a plan A, B, and C - and some permutations thereof - so there s a very high probability of a successful outcome.
> Is there anyone definitely NOT participating, who is knowledgeable enough about plane construction/operation, that I could PM them with a question for a particular design idea?
> Perhaps DonW or Dave K?
> 
> - JohnMcClure


I'm sure Dave K or Don either one would be happy to answer questions. I'm happy to help too even though I'm playing. I don't mind the spoilers if you don't. Don and Dave both have far more experience than me though.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I can help as needed. I just don't think I'll have time for this one even though making planes is one of my favorite small builds.

As I've been known to say probably to much is that these swaps are meant to challenge you at any skill level. So for me to just whip out a Krenov and a plane hammer would really be cheating me thinks. I need to come up with something that really would challenge me. I have ideas but unfortunately I don't think I have the time. No guarantees I'll sit out but it's very likely.


----------



## DavePolaschek

What Kenny said. It's a round-robin swap. Unless there's some overriding reason (like two guys within easy driving distance of each other might get paired up so they can do an in-person swap, if only there weren't a plague on, or only one international person and only one other person willing to ship internationally) to do it otherwise.

I think DonW said he wasn't joining in on this one. Haven't seen any of the resident planemakers around lately. Mos has some experience and I haven't managed to talk him into joining yet. But he'll probably want you to have a fence and changeable blades and seven functions in one or something crazy. ;-)

Mental note: make a plantation column hose plane for Kenny.


----------



## HokieKen

It's gotta start somewhere…


----------



## DevinT

Where it always starts for me


----------



## HokieKen

Bay #2?


----------



## SMP

> Where it always starts for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - DevinT


Is that over near Third Culture Bakery?


----------



## DevinT

A photo tour of what's inside:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1375874893410013186
Yes, it's the one near Third Culture Bakery. I live 2 blocks away from it.


----------



## SMP

> A photo tour of what s inside:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1375874893410013186
> Yes, it s the one near Third Culture Bakery. I live 2 blocks away from it.
> 
> - DevinT


Oh cool, thats an interesting town. Its always an "experience" walking around there and getting food etc.


----------



## DevinT

I've never been to Third Culture Bakery, but right next door to it is Standard Fare which I absolutely love. I also recommend going a couple blocks down and over to 7th street to visit 900 Grayson (which is both the address and the name of the restaurant).


----------



## DevinT

Was checking on availability of Veritas plane kits (for others; I already ordered mine) and … the Lee Valley website is down. First time that's ever happened to me. Very interesting.


----------



## HokieKen

It's good for me Devin.


----------



## SMP

> I ve never been to Third Culture Bakery, but right next door to it is Standard Fare which I absolutely love. I also recommend going a couple blocks down and over to 7th street to visit 900 Grayson (which is both the address and the name of the restaurant).
> 
> - DevinT


Cool, will check them out next time I am up there. My wife and one of daughters are vegan, so last time we ate at The Butcher's Son(funny name for a vegan restaurant)


----------



## DevinT

Lee Valley site is back up. Block plane kits should become available and start shipping tomorrow.


----------



## duckmilk

Block planes are very useful little tools. People carry them in their aprons (those that wear aprons) or have them around within reach because, they are really handy for quick tasks that don't require pulling out a larger plane to accomplish it. I have probably used a block plane more often than any other plane I own.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Huh! Grant joined in. Now you're all in for it!

Er… welcome, Grant!


----------



## GrantA




----------



## Mosquito

> Mos has some experience and I haven't managed to talk him into joining yet. But he'll probably want you to have a fence and changeable blades and seven functions in one or something crazy. ;-)
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Truth lol


----------



## HokieKen

A combination plow was on my original list of possibilities. Turned out a little too ambitious for a project with a deadline though.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Yeah. I still have a simpler plow plane on my list, but it's slipped to plan D or so. Oh well, there'll be another swap in the future…


----------



## HokieKen

That was another reason I scratched it off the list Dave - I don't need one. My alterior motive for doing the swap is to forcefully allocate time to build myself a plane ;-)


----------



## doubleG469

So Kenny is in, Grant is in…. Dave K is next and while your at it just add Earl and Nathan…..

there the gangs all here.


----------



## GrantA

I'm gonna try to learn a new skill I've been wanting to practice. This can serve as an inspirational teaser


----------



## DevinT

I love the ornate casting


----------



## HokieKen

My 45 rehab was one of my funnest ones. The plane is lots of fun to use too


----------



## DavePolaschek

Well, plan E is a shop-made radi-plane, thanks to Devin posting it in the hand planes of your dreams thread. Actually getting started on plan A this weekend once the three bookcases sitting in the shop get their three coats of shellac and get hauled inside.

Put three junipers in the yard today, plus a couple smaller perennials. Only one of the holes required a pick to get deep enough to plant, so that was a bonus (the caliche around here can be like concrete - we mostly missed that today). And we're not going back for more plants until "Monday or Tuesday" because we don't like the weekend crowds at the nurseries this time of year.


----------



## EricFai

Reading through these, I see there are some that sound like they are going all out.

This rookie tool builder needs to learn a few new task. I am still in, might not be as fancy as some or exotic as others. But I'll do my best. Waiting for blades to arrive at the house, so I can get started. This is going to be fun.

Dave, with all of that turning your doing, maybe that can be a hint for a future swap.


----------



## Keebler1

We did a turning swap last part of last year. I may host a bowl/hollow vessell swap after the beer swap. No promises though cause someine else may have a better idea


----------



## DevinT

I checked Lee Valley's website, and the hand plane kit still says "Expected Apr 2" so I gave them a call.

They said "end of the month."

I suspect at the end of the month they will say end of next month. I figured this would happen.

Sigh.


----------



## Keebler1

Not trying to hijack the thread but a pen swap group has been started on facebook for anyone interested.


----------



## DevinT

I called back Lee Valley and asked them if they could at least ship out a copy of the instruction manual that comes with the kit (seeming how I already ordered it, but could not wait to start building it). They found a digital copy and are going to e-mail it to me. I should be able to see soon just how far I can get without the parts


----------



## GrantA

Devin which kit (rather what parts) are you waiting on? I assume something different than what Dave K has for sale?
If you get in a bind between this group we can get you what you need don't worry!


----------



## DevinT

I am waiting on a PM-V11 wooden block plane kit (1 5/8" blade). Dave K only has the the bench plane kits.


----------



## GrantA

Ah the width is different I see. You should be able to get the body pieces shaped how you like but might want to wait till the parts are on hand to cut out the center where the kit parts go!
If it turns out they get delayed even further, pm-v11 is a proprietary steel for Veritas/ LV but I have CPM-154, O1, A2, D2 etc on hand and could knock out a blade to your specs no problem. I intend to make an adjuster setup this time and may be able to knock out a handful of those once I sort out the details


----------



## DavePolaschek

I've got one spare PMV-11 block plane kit. Unless I get into Plan C for this swap…

Message or email me Devin, and we'll figure it out.


----------



## Keebler1

Devin if you want to rob parts off an existing plane if possible i have the grizzly h7566 i can send you. You pay shipping. I dont use it. Not sure what size blade is in it if youre interested let me know i can measure it when i get home


----------



## DevinT

I have already sunk a fair amount into this plane and I have parts coming from 3 different countries-I can guarantee that you've never seen a block plane like the one I am making (and I am being very tight-lipped about what exactly that entails, but my neighbor agrees that it's never been done before and he's quite excited to see it).

Right now I'm not married to anything other than the fact that it be a block plane with 1 5/8" blade.

Give me a day or two to look over these instructions. Lee Valley sent them over.

I'm re-hosting it here for free and quick access for anyone that wants to take a look at their instruction booklet for the wooden block plane kit.

http://lj.shxd.cx/LV/05P4045.pdf


----------



## DevinT

Grant, this might be an excellent option worth pursuing. I don't want to prematurely take Dave's "Plan C" before he possibly needs it (since he would be in the same boat as me if he sought a replacement after handing me his). Your intent to make an adjuster setup would really set me up for success.

Dave, thanks. I've sent a message.

Keebler, tempting but that grizzly is a bit big for some unique parts I am having imported. Those parts would have to be scaled-up for a jack plane, otherwise they would just look strange and possibly not work as-intended.


----------



## GrantA

The last (OK, the only one I've liked) block plane i made didn't have an adjuster and it was sweet, but these swaps are about challenging ourselves so I can't just copy it. 
It seems the group here likes Norris type adjusters over anything else from the little bit of discussion I seem to recall, if anyone disagrees let's hear it!


----------



## DevinT

I like Norris adjusters, but I *really* like Norris adjusters with long down-rods. The reason is simple really, with a longer down-rod you are creating a more exaggerated angle the further away from the pivot point you are. Obviously, the more distance the knob can travel left-to-right to adjust the blade angle, the more degrees, minutes, and seconds you have at your disposal for ensuring the blade is parallel with the mouth/sole.

I have been avoiding the Lee Valley custom bevel-down hand planes because they use short down-rods on the adjuster. I don't mind it so much on my Veritas apron plane, but for a bevel down plane I find I can get it to perpendicular much faster. On the apron plane, I often have to loosen the spin wheel before I can adjust the angle and then have to tighten it back down else it moves during use. I simply don't have to adjust the amount of pressure from the lever cap on a traditional Veritas plane because the longer down-rod also gives me greater leverage.

I never crank the lever caps down that hard. I like to find that sweet-spot that keeps the blade in-position but I can still use the pinch method to micro-adjust the angle of the blade.

Obviously, long down-rods don't work well on bevel-ups (but I'm a bevel-down gal anyways; except for my apron plane).


----------



## HokieKen

Just FYI, block planes are normally bevel up Devin. Not discouraging you from making BD block, just a suggestion to think about attack angles vs bed angles. Also BD planes without chipbreakers are hard animals to tame ;-)

First mowing of the year means first yard beer of the year )


----------



## HokieKen

Also to add to the discussion… bailey pattern adjusters for depth and lateral are more cumbersome and "fiddley" than norris adjusters.

Norris adjusters are my preference but, they suffer from a lot more backlash because of the double threads. Easy to compensate for in one direction. But when the threads go opposite directions, it's a little harder. You can't be sloppy with the machining.

Adjusters are nice and I doubt I'd buy a plane without them. But, they aren't necessary and planes can be set just as effectively with a hammer with just a little practice.

I say all that to say that adding an adjuster is going to complicate your build. Just the nature of the beast - more parts, harder to get them all working together. So if you're feeling overwhelmed by the project, I would say don't feel bad about not including an adjuster. Planes worked just fine for a long time without them ;-)


----------



## DavePolaschek

The LV bench plane kit calls for a wooden wedge which sits atop the blade. It's the same hardware as their block plane kit except for the blade and the directions, as far as I've ever been able to determine. TBH I don't know for sure which kit I have, but I have the block-plane blade, and the sticker on the bag says "1.6 blade."

PM sent. I've already found the spare kit with the 1⅝ PMV-11 blade and will send it as soon as I get an okie-dokie. Note that I had a plan D and plan E already, so I just crossed plan C off the list and moved the others up. No hardship on this end.

Actually, with another recent eBay purchase, I also had a plan F, but that's a Gage Patent Adjuster I could refurb and send out, and I'd rather hang onto that so I can study it and maybe use THAT mechanism in future planes I build. It's got some unique things going on that I'd like to understand one of these years.


----------



## DevinT

I know block planes are usually bevel up but the LV block plane kit is bevel down as far as I can see. Actually, they take a bevel up block plane blade and have you mount it upside down in their kit as evidenced by the logo being on the "wrong" side (against the wood).


----------



## DevinT

Based on the design of my plane, if anybody tapped it with a hammer I would visit them in person. It's adjusters all the way or nothing at all because there are going to be materials on it that could be irreversibly damaged. You'll understand after the reveal in June. It will be small but valuable. Not so valuable you won't use it though.


----------



## clieb91

Keebler, Thanks for the heads up. Let me know how the group goes may be I will actually look at FB if it is interesting and they are setting something up.

CtL


----------



## HokieKen

I am intrigued Devin…


----------



## JohnMcClure

Diamond-studded plane no doubt. Or jeweled bearings!
Unrelatedly, Dave P, I will need you to make sure Devin ships to me


----------



## Keebler1

Chris we just started a swap today. Registration i believe is rill 4/18. Its a rollerball pen swap. I am one of 2 admins in the group so I will keep it safe if you wanted to let your daughter join also


----------



## GrantA

Hmm now I'm imagining a jeweled tool steel blade…


----------



## bndawgs

Stopped by woodcraft today. Remind me not to bring my youngest son with me again. Came for a glue, ended up with 2 resin pen blanks. Lol


----------



## bndawgs

Man, I have a feeling that Devin is going to put you all to the shame with this swap. Probably for the best that I'm not joining.


----------



## Keebler1

Is that all you came out with steve…my last trip to woodcraft i came out with a nova chuck, tool rest and a lathe


----------



## bndawgs

Lol, yes. Luckily I had to pick up my mom and my son was anxious to go once he had his items.

Plus, I don't like the local woodcraft as a rule. I rarely ever have a good experience there. This time I was actually greeted when I walked in, but still no offer to be helped. When I went to buy my bandsaw, I had to practically twist the guy's arm to take my order.


----------



## DevinT

Reading through the digital version of the instructions that accompany the Veritas plane kit (with 1 5/8" blade) the first sentence is:

"The following instructions describe how to make a basic bevel-down wood-bodied smooth plane, complete with a Norris-style adjuster."

So perhaps I was wrong to call it a block plane. In fact, the word "block" doesn't appear anywhere on the kit product page, but instead it's called "Veritas Wooden Plane Hardware Kit."

So that was my mistake in calling it a block plane kit. It's actually a smoothing plane kit. So I am making a smoothing plane, not a block plane.


----------



## GrantA

Yeah Steve I'm a little concerned about Devin… Like I would be if my sis in law (who is a jeweler) decided she wanted to make a plane. I'm not sure etching/engraving/jeweling is gonna be enough… Might have to add some mother of pearl or onyx!

Anybody else grilling tonight? I went to the local meat market and grabbed some prime grade ribeye *drool*!


----------



## DevinT

I would like to note though that the blade they give you for the wooden smooth plane kit is actually a blade out of one of their bevel-up block planes (again: note that the logo will be on the wrong side when you mount the blade in the smoother with its bevel down)


----------



## DevinT

I'm grilling filet mignon tomorrow for our 11th wedding anniversary dinner. Will take pics.


----------



## DevinT

Mohs hardness of mother of pearl is only 2.5 and I probably would not use that in a hand plane, I'm just sayin'


----------



## GrantA

Congratulations Devin!

For filets I have really been digging sous vide finished in buttery cast iron, as long as you don't overcook though that's a great cut!!


----------



## HokieKen

My wife and mom are cooking ham and turkey and all the fixin's tomorrow. The grill will remain covered and my ass will remain planted ;-)


----------



## GrantA

Aha! So you *are* a jeweler eh?


----------



## GrantA

C'mon Kenny you could smoke a turkey!


----------



## DevinT

All I'm going to say is that the plane already has a serial number 10 digits long


----------



## Woodmaster1

> Stopped by woodcraft today. Remind me not to bring my youngest son with me again. Came for a glue, ended up with 2 resin pen blanks. Lol
> 
> - Steve


I left my local woodworking store with a jet 15" planer and $80 worth of exotic wood.


----------



## HokieKen

I left Lowes with 10' of pvc and some fittings. I'm jealous :-(


----------



## bndawgs

Grant, I almost had myself convinced to buy a kamado from Costco. I'm in the market for a new grill offer some type.


----------



## bndawgs

You making a potato gun Kenny?


----------



## HokieKen

> C mon Kenny you could smoke a turkey!
> 
> - GrantA


I could. But I'd rather eat it.


----------



## bndawgs

Always makes me sad to burn firewood. This is a piece of cherry that I didn't feel like cutting into boards.


----------



## HokieKen

Nah Steve, the taters around here are pretty slow. No need to shoot em.


----------



## DevinT

Wonder if I should break out the smoker for the anniversary. I think I only have mesquite chips right now-not sure about a mesquite smoked filet mignon. Worth the effort?


----------



## bndawgs

I don't think mesquite would be my first choice. I would use up some cherry scraps if I was doing beef


----------



## DavePolaschek

> So perhaps I was wrong to call it a block plane. In fact, the word "block" doesn t appear anywhere on the kit product page, but instead it s called "Veritas Wooden Plane Hardware Kit."
> 
> So that was my mistake in calling it a block plane kit. It s actually a smoothing plane kit. So I am making a smoothing plane, not a block plane.


It uses their block plane blade, and I believe it used to be called the "Block plane kit" to differentiate it from the 2 inch and 2¼ inch kits.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> C mon Kenny you could smoke a turkey!
> 
> - GrantA
> 
> I could. But I'd rather eat it.
> 
> - HokieKen


Turkeys are too much work to smoke. Way too hard to keep them lit, and the buzz just puts you to sleep…


----------



## HokieKen

To me, a block plane is bevel up and bedded at 20 or 12 degrees and has an integral "frog". If it is bevel down and bedded at 45 or higher, it's a bench plane. Of course there are bevel up bench planes that muddy the waters…


----------



## GrantA

Well you're in California so I think straws even need serial numbers 









I would definitely not smoke filets. Wood fire on the grill, bring it on!

The smoker could absolutely be put to use though- cheeses (smoky brie is amazing!), veggies (Brussels sprouts or cabbage are great with smoke!), etc to go with the filet!

Lookout for the BBQ swap over the summer too ;-p


----------



## bndawgs

Not the best, not the worst.

Price was right though


----------



## GrantA

I had to look back and see what I did on my mini block plane, I bedded it at 10° and put a 30° BU iron in it. Worked great!


----------



## GrantA

On yet another note, I had almost forgotten that my dad picked up a plane for me a few months back, I need to get it from him this week (maybe I can tomorrow!) and get a better look at it. From the measurements it's a No 28 Fore Plane. I'll have to check out the frog screws to narrow down the date range


----------



## DevinT

Just finished reviewing the kit instructions. This seems like it will be pretty straightforward. The PM-V11 blade comes with a primary and secondary bevel. I will be adding tertiary and back bevels and honing it up to 16000 grit. So it should not only look great but function great. I've settled on just doing a 45 degree bed. I believe that when a blade is prepared in this way you don't need high angle bedding.


----------



## jeffswildwood

> I left Lowes with 10' of pvc and some fittings. I'm jealous :-(
> 
> - HokieKen


I left lowes with a riding mower. After pushing a mower for 50 years, exited to give it a go. If I can figure it out and not kill myself with the way my yard is.


----------



## EarlS

I went to the mall yesterday with the wife and sat in the car since I forgot my mask. I came back with nothing.

BUT- there just might be a Harvey bandsaw and some Benchcrafted vises in my immediate future.. or else I could buy a riding lawn mower for the 1/2 acre yard. What should it be?


----------



## HokieKen

There are two valid choices Earl. I mow my 1/2 acre with a push mower and I'm far lazier than you.

If you don't have a good bandsaw already, I would probably put that ahead of the vises on my priority list. Benchcrafted is super nice stuff for sure. But it's more of a luxury item IMO whereas a bandsaw is pretty much a necessity in my shop.


----------



## Keebler1

Get the bandsaw and vises first then "accidentally" push the checkout button for the riding mower


----------



## Lazyman

Where are you going to store that riding mower. Earl? You have separate shed for that?


----------



## Keebler1

He has a backyard and a tarp


----------



## EarlS

Nathan - The riding mower would have to sit under a tarp, under the deck, which might just be another reason to put off getting one until "next year" and focus on the bandsaw and vises. This is why I ask the brain trust when I'm faced with these kinds of decisions. Now I have more justification for SWMBO.

Kenny - for the price of a John Deere riding mower, I should be able to get a bandsaw AND the vises.

I looked at Rockler - Rikon is back ordered until June. Harvey is 25% off, but shipping is $300. It would ship on April 9. I definitely need 8" resaw capability since I picked up some 6×6 cherry and some 12/4 walnut that is 8" wide last week. Any other suggestions?


----------



## Keebler1

Have Grant ship you one of his. Look used. I picked up a good used 17" for $750. Yes you should be able to pick up a good used band saw and vises for what a riding mower would cost. Have a friend just bought a used 2013 john deere riding mower and he paid $2000 for it


----------



## GrantA

Earl I have a sweet 18" American made craftsman (Parks) that I'd consider letting go of, it's got that art Deco kinda vibe.


----------



## SMP

If you want to really kick your bbq up a notch, try this recipe. Sure you are taking filet mignon and cutting it an pieces and skewering it, and coating it with sauce, something purists would turn their noses at, but it is amazing. Everytime I have made it for guests they ask for the recipe or ask me to make it again

https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/argentinean-beef-skewers-with-chimichurri-recipe-1910877


----------



## Lazyman

Fillet mignon is basically just the primo slices of the tenderloin so can be cooked many ways. About the only way to totally ruin a fillet is to cook it until it is dried out.


----------



## Mosquito

Grant, I tried buying an 18" Parks made Craftsman a little while back, but the seller backed out on me… Got a second 14" Delta, but haven't given up the passive hunt for a bigger (resaw) saw.

Since we're on the subject of bandsaws again, I won't feel bad for digging it up lol.

I got my starting issue fixed, now my push block can go back to being just a push block and not a starting stick 

My suspicion was correct lol










And while I was at it, new wood slicer blade (first I've tried), and iturra bearing blocks. We're rocking now.










Dave, I'm leaning more towards emailing you this week… I have ideas, and want to try them. I just hate making (hardening) blades, and haven't been able to find new in stock for what I want


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Dave, I'm leaning more towards emailing you this week… I have ideas, and want to try them. I just hate making (hardening) blades, and haven't been able to find new in stock for what I want


If you need help finding a blade, an email to Ron Hock might turn up something. He's very approachable, in my experience, and has pointed me to an alternate source on eBay once.

Or email me and I might be able to help you find what you need.


----------



## bndawgs

I was looking at the wood slicer blades as I'm in the market for a new resaw blade and they recommend not to use them with green wood or curves. Is the warning due to contact with potentially wet wood?


----------



## bndawgs

Guess it would help if I read further. Says due to the blade's minimal set not to use them with green wood.


----------



## DevinT

For any late participants thinking about joining or changing their plans …

Update: If you were thinking about using a Lee Valley kit, your ability to get it from Lee Valley is nearly gone.

1 5/8" blade kit expected stock/ship dates:
A2: May 14th
O1: Aug 6
PM-V11: May 14th

2" blade kit:
A2: May 14th
O1: May 14th
PM-V11: May 14th

2 1/4" blade kit:
A2: May 14th
O1: May 14th
PM-V11: May 14th

ASIDE: I'm good on my needs. Just sharing for others.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Again, if needed I have two of these Lee Valley kits (2 1/4" PM-V11) and some generic but nice Krenov kits available if you want a cheaper option.

$80 shipped for the Lee Valley. It's cheaper buying from them with free shipping right now, otherwise I'm not making money on these just getting paid for the shipping. So if you can wait until May 14th I advise you order from them.

$35 shipped for the Krenov kit. Good little kits. I've used this on a past swap and like these.










No pressure, happy to keep my stash, just helping where I can.


----------



## MakerofSawdust

I'm in.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Got the email. Welcome, Kevin!


----------



## JohnMcClure

I just got my package from ron hock, so I'm definitely staying in!


----------



## Keebler1

If I didnt have a workbench to build and a little rearranging to do in the shop i might join in but I have to get shop stuff done first. Knocking too many things over and spending too much time lookjng for things


----------



## drsurfrat

I just made a stab at hardening two A2 blades/cutters/irons with Kenny's help. They took an edge, so at least I didn't ruin them. I used a MAP torch, heated to orange-hot for a minute, then quiescently cooled in air. I have to finish the planes to see if they will hold that edge.


----------



## duckmilk

Mike, you can test the edges before you get your planes made. Use them like a chisel with a wooden mallet and chop some stuff to see how they hold up. I know about A2 steel but have never used it. It is supposed to be air hardening, so I'll bet you are good to go.

I just finished my first pair of forge tongs from pre-cut blanks. Took me three days to get them to my liking, but perseverance paid off.


----------



## Woodmaster1

> I just got my package from ron hock, so I m definitely staying in!
> 
> - JohnMcClure


My package from Ron Hock was mailed today. We might be making the same plane but different wood and style.


----------



## bndawgs

Can I use a heat gun if I wanted to loosen up some hide glue on some boards I just glued?


----------



## DevinT

Teaser: A single microscopic detail on 1 side of my hand plane design …


----------



## DavePolaschek

Steve, hide glue loosens best with heat and moisture. Steam will be better than a heat gun. Or wet it down, and then heat-gun it.


----------



## HokieKen

Putting one of your hairs on the plane doesn't count as "customizing" it Devin.


----------



## DevinT

Ken, lol


----------



## bndawgs

> Steve, hide glue loosens best with heat and moisture. Steam will be better than a heat gun. Or wet it down, and then heat-gun it.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Thanks Dave. Just trying to figure out if I should try to fix this or not. I was hoping to give this tray as a wedding present, but of course I worry about it not being 100%. I'm not sure if it opened up slightly or the joint isn't fully mating.


----------



## Lazyman

> Can I use a heat gun if I wanted to loosen up some hide glue on some boards I just glued?
> 
> - Steve


You need moisture to get into the joint too. I literally just removed the veneer on a small antique table today. I used a wet rag to saturate the veneer and an old iron on top of the rage to heat it up. As the glue softened, I slid a large putty knife in to separate the veneer from the top. The heat and moisture basically reactivate the glue. If this is a glued up panel, wet down the entire joint front and back and start heating at one end. Once you can get knife to start into the joint, you can get more water and slowly loosen the joint.


----------



## Lazyman

Now that I see the joint, you can try getting some water into the gap and then heating it. Once the glue softens you may be able to clamp it back down.


----------



## SMP

> Teaser: A single microscopic detail on 1 side of my hand plane design …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - DevinT


Oh yeah??! Well here's a view of my plane from space:


----------



## jeffswildwood

The Wife had an appointment in Roanoke so I got a trip to wood craft. Picked up a couple things. Mostly some card scrapers. I looked for plane kits, lots of planes but no kits.


----------



## EricFai

Received my Hock blades yesterday. But it looks like this might be a hand tool build. Fried the table saw over the weekend, and lead times are way out. If I go with a Laguna it July - August time frame. Still doing my research though before I pull the trigger.


----------



## SMP

> Received my Hock blades yesterday. But it looks like this might be a hand tool build. Fried the table saw over the weekend, and lead times are way out. If I go with a Laguna it July - August time frame. Still doing my research though before I pull the trigger.
> 
> - Eric


If you watch Richard Maguire's build on The English Woodworker site, he builds the whole thing with a panel saw. In most of his videos he uses a cheap Irwin hardpoint saw from the big box store for everything . Even resawing the sides.


----------



## drsurfrat

> Mike, you can test the edges before you get your planes made. Use them like a chisel with a wooden mallet and chop some stuff to see how they hold up. I know about A2 steel but have never used it. It is supposed to be air hardening, so I ll bet you are good to go.
> ...
> - duckmilk


Thanks duck, I 'll try that.


----------



## GrantA

Mike be careful with the A2. Did you temper it? It's pretty finicky, needs a good half hour or more soak at a very high & somewhat precise temp and almost immediate tempering. You may find its awfully brittle. 
I hate to bear bad news but I'd rather you find out now than later


----------



## GrantA

Just making up for the yard beer posted recently


----------



## DavePolaschek

Always wondered about how a guy anneals A2. Do you have to bury it in sand or something so it cools more slowly? With O-1, I just heat it glowing and then let it air cool and that does a good enough job of annealing it that I can cold work it.

Jeff, I can't recall ever seeing a plane kit at Woodcraft. I think they used to stock Hock blades, but that's been a while. And with Lee Valley being backordered so severely on their kits, I'd be looking to other kinds of planes if I hadn't already started down a path.

Been busy around here. We put in three agaves yesterday evening, and had Oscar's Tree Service plant three trees today. Got them all tied off before the wind really picked up, but it's been blowing 25-30 mph with gusts up near 50 since about noon. Auntie Em!

Hoping I'll get a little shop time tomorrow. Got about a half hour this morning, but it was just cutting tubafors down into stakes to tie the new trees.


----------



## SMP

Duplicate


----------



## GrantA

Dave I don't think anybody is gonna anneal A2 without a furnace. Not really sure anybody is gonna harden it without a furnace either. Here's some reading on the subject

Mike, I'm learning as I go but I do have a furnace and would be happy to do your HT following known recipes such as that info I linked.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

If anyone needs help hardening your blades let me know. I'm happy to do it for you.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thanks for the confirmation, Grant. I figured A2 was something to stay the heck away from for any of my metalworking purposes. It'll be fine in a blade I do nothing but sharpen, but otherwise I should stick to O-1.


----------



## HokieKen

I just ordered a slab of O1. Somebody's getting a beefy blade in this one…


----------



## SMP

> I just ordered a slab of O1. Somebody s getting a beefy blade in this one…
> 
> - HokieKen


Is it a "live edge" slab?


----------



## JohnMcClure

> If anyone needs help hardening your blades let me know. I'm happy to do it for you.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


But don't ask him to harden a Rockler shoulder plane blade! Idk what its made of but I couldn't make it hold an edge, sent it to Dave, and he couldn't harden it because it was made of garbage. I trashed it and bought the Hock. (This was a couple years back).


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I should say, I'm happy to harden known steels for you, no problem.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Swappers,
I'm not much of a youtube guy, too busy mostly, but I know it's a valuable way to learn a skill. So I've watched a couple "plane builds". 
I had a LOT of problems with this youtube video. but I'm not about to start picking it apart. Rather, I'd like to ask the experts here about one thing that stood out. In the first couple minutes you see that he 
a) laminates the sole to a body block
b) drills locating holes for use later, in assembly
b) resaws (dangerously) the sides off the laminated body-sole
c) Cuts the angles in the body-sole
d) Glues the sides back on using the locating holes

The locating holes seem like a smart idea, but I don't understand why he put the sole on first. Wouldn't it be much smarter to build exactly as he did, (maybe using better techniques and craftsmanship), then cut a tiny mouth in the sole, and THEN glue the sole on? His technique results in a very open mouth.

So I'd love to hear the experts opinion. This guy sure makes it look easy…

---
Edit to add: 
Unrelatedly, is 5-minute epoxy suitable for attaching a brass wear strip to wood?
Anything else you recommend that I'd be able to find easily at the home store?


----------



## HokieKen

I didn't watch the video John but it sounds like pretty typical process. Personally, I agree about putting the sole on last to minimize the mouth. But, it also depends on whether it's a single or double iron and bevel upmor bevel down. I'm not personally all that picky about a tightly set mouth on my planes. I prefer a really finely tuned chipbreaker to control the shavings. And I have a wooden plane I got from Mos' in a past swap that is a super fine smoother with a single iron, no chipbreaker and a wider mouth than most advocate. But there's no arguing with results.

For attaching brass to wood, yep 2 part epoxy works well. If you're thinking for a sole though, I'd probably add mechanical fasteners. I like flat head brass screws in a shallow countersink. Leave them proud and file them flush. They disappear and give a solid connection. You'd be surprised how much heat you generate with a hand plane. I'd have some concern that epoxy alone might be adversely affected.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I've worked really hard to get a tight mouth in a plane in the past (and had to widen it with a float when I discovered I'd botched the geometry), and I've also been kinda quick and dirty. The plane I use most was kinda quick and dirty and doesn't have a super tight mouth.

It also just has a wooden wedge, rather than a chip-breaker. And yet it seems to work pretty well for me, except for a little lateral adjustment issue that I'll fix next time I flatten the sole (and thus widen the mouth).

So I dunno. I figure I get close and then spend some time tuning. If the wide mouth gives me problems, I'll splice in a "wear plate" and tighten the mouth that way if it needs it. If not, no worries. But I'm kind of a hack.

I'm with Kenny on screws (or dowels) plus glue (or epoxy). I feel a lot better with a solid mechanical connection and then glue to hold things together in addition. Yeah, modern glues are stronger than the wood we're gluing, but still…

Just my two cents.

Edit to add: I don't think this is a particularly tight mouth, but this is my most-commonly used plane, as it looked a couple weeks ago.


----------



## MikeB_UK

For attaching brass to wood I use a slower cure epoxy and brass screws. (The 5 minute stuff doesn't stick as well, although I'm probably being over-cautious.

Like Kenny said, shallow countersink to leave them proud









Then flatten the bottom, you don't need to make the screws dissapear completely, they won't get in the way.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Thanks Dave P, Kenny, and Mike B!


----------



## donwilwol

I agree with the build statements but will add that having the screw heads countersunk below the surface and left is also an option. It doesn't hurt. Some prefer the clean hidden screw look and some are ok see the heads showing.

I don't like the alignment holes, but that's just me. I have used the salt trick to help keep things aligned, but it still is on you to get them aligned.


----------



## Mosquito

Alright Dave, email is away… guess I'm in


----------



## DavePolaschek

Got it, Mos. Welcome!

That's 11. Someone going to make it a dozen?


----------



## HokieKen

I don't have a good picture really showing the mouth on my "Mosquito Smoother" (name is still a WIP ;-p) but you can see in this one that it's not super tight.









And there's no chipbreaker, just a single, bevel-down blade. But it takes a damn fine shaving after it's tapped into tune 


















For anyone stressing about a blade adjuster, don't. It is not difficult to set a plane with a hammer at all.



> I agree with the build statements but will add that having the screw heads countersunk below the surface and left is also an option. It doesn t hurt. Some prefer the clean hidden screw look and some are ok see the heads showing.
> ...
> 
> - Don W


Very true. Nothing wrong with that at all. But here's a little tip learned the hard way… if you are planning to file the screw heads down to hide them, don't use phillips head screws :-/









Flat heads work much better  There are 6 screws in these wear strips. You can spot one on the left side top where I let my countersink get just a hair too deep.


----------



## Mosquito

here ya go Kenny


----------



## Woodmaster1

Got my making wooden tools book back from a friend. So now the decision on what plane or planes to make.


----------



## HokieKen

Teaserin'


----------



## DavePolaschek

This is not a plane swap teaser.


----------



## DevinT

It's a hand birb


----------



## MikeB_UK

Stick a blade in it's beak and call it a detail spokeshave


----------



## HokieKen

You can convert that to a whale when you get tired of birds ;-)


----------



## DavePolaschek

I was thinking a seal, Kenny. Turns out ash is maybe not the ideal wood for a beginner's carving experiments. On the other hand, I've been learning a lot in the process, so there's that.

Tomorrow's the last sign up for the swap. Guess I'd better get started fairly soon.


----------



## Lazyman

> It's a hand birb
> 
> - DevinT


 Not yet. At this stage it's known as a tirb.


----------



## Lazyman

I guess I'd better finally decide if I am in or out. Hmm.


----------



## doubleG469

You're in. Who you kidding.


----------



## EricFai

Dave, for the birb, maybe try basswood for a few, it is an excellent carving wood.


----------



## SMP

> I was thinking a seal, Kenny. Turns out ash is maybe not the ideal wood for a beginner's carving experiments. On the other hand, I've been learning a lot in the process, so there's that.
> 
> Tomorrow's the last sign up for the swap. Guess I'd better get started fairly soon.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


My first carvings started out as Bass wood but ended up as ash(es).


----------



## DavePolaschek

Eric, I don't have any basswood, but I have lots of ash and oak and pine and walnut scraps. Also have a chunk of curly cherry that might become a birb.

Those in the swap who don't have ideas for what to build, MikeB posted a couple blog entries about router planes that might give someone ideas.


----------



## DevinT

> It's a hand birb
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> Not yet. At this stage it s known as a tirb.
> 
> - Lazyman


I see what you did there ;D


----------



## HokieKen

I rode to work on two wheels with no roof and now I'm rained in on Friday evening. Ugh.


----------



## GrantA

That whole no roof thing has me paying a lot more attention to the weather since I got the jeep!


----------



## Keebler1

Pen with a blank i cast last weekend


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Eric, I don't have any basswood, but I have lots of ash and oak and pine and walnut scraps. Also have a chunk of curly cherry that might become a birb.
> 
> Those in the swap who don't have ideas for what to build, MikeB posted a couple blog entries about router planes that might give someone ideas.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


With my, very limited, experience, carve with fresh green wood, just pick something newly chopped.
Green - good.
Air dried - slightly harder.
Kiln dried - pain in the neck.
Oh, and and don't carve pink ivory with a £5 detail knife, bad idea, but did make me buy those beavercraft ones.

Cheers for the shout out on the router planes, hopefully someone can learn something from my stumblings.

I figured no one was joining on this side of the pond so I thought I'd post them, the beech one was a prototype, the spalted birch was one of the bonus items and I'm honestly not sure If I can pull of my idea for the main item which, should, be a screw stem plough plane out of spalted beech (may run out of time, may go very wrong, may be a stupid idea, not sure if I need to leave the beech another year to stabalise).


----------



## Lazyman

> I rode to work on two wheels with no roof and now I m rained in on Friday evening. Ugh.
> 
> - HokieKen


I thought that just means you have to ride faster with no stopping.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> With my, very limited, experience, carve with fresh green wood, just pick something newly chopped.
> Green - good.
> Air dried - slightly harder.
> Kiln dried - pain in the neck.


Right. Which explains why there's so little carving here in the desert southwest. "Freshly cut" is frequently already "air dried" or "kiln dried" depending on the weather. The dew point here right now is -14F, and with a 30mph wind, it's like being in a convection oven. Luckily the temperature is only 65F or so.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> With my, very limited, experience, carve with fresh green wood, just pick something newly chopped.
> Green - good.
> Air dried - slightly harder.
> Kiln dried - pain in the neck.
> 
> Right. Which explains why there's so little carving here in the desert southwest. "Freshly cut" is frequently already "air dried" or "kiln dried" depending on the weather. The dew point here right now is -14F, and with a 30mph wind, it's like being in a convection oven. Luckily the temperature is only 65F or so.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Kind of the opposite over here in Manchester, beech tree fell over in rain and wind 4 months back and the council lopped it into 2 foot lengths to shove it off the path.
I reckon by the end of summer it will dry it out enough for it to be light enough for me to carry some of it to the nearest road half a mile away so I can swipe it.

Wood can dry here, but it's kind of 50/50 if it get's drier or wetter after if falls


----------



## donwilwol

^ this is why they made power carvers


----------



## EarlS

> I rode to work on two wheels with no roof and now I m rained in on Friday evening. Ugh.
> 
> - HokieKen


Good to hear you finally took your training wheels off. Be careful not to let the cape get caught in the chain.

All of this plane talk is WAY beyond my capabilities.

Still waiting for shipping confirmation for the Harvey bandsaw I ordered last week. The Benchcrafted vises will be ordered today. Big stash of thick wood waiting to be planed for the bench. Meanwhile, today looks like a shop day since it is supposed to rain all day. Probably should pick up the saw blades from the local place that sharpened them and see how they look.


----------



## GrantA

Earl! Which bandsaw??

And before you order the vise hardware have to seen hovarter? Kenny and Dave K have some and like em


----------



## jeffswildwood

> Tomorrow's the last sign up for the swap.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Sorry Dave, I'll have to pass. I just know nothing about planes, adjusting, angles or metal for a blade. I guess that's where I don't use one. Last thing I would want to do is send someone a beautiful plane that turns out to be a decoration because it won't cut. I think I even told Ken when I visited once that this is the swap I dread the most. Hope no one minds if I hang out though.


----------



## Mosquito

Jeff, if you're not participating you're not welcome… to leave. You've entered the realm of the swap thread, you must stay now ;-)

The 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th planes (out of the 5 total) I ever made were for these swaps. I have no idea how often most of them get used, other than what Kenny says he uses his for, but they were still fun to make regardless. I would be happy to take a plane as art if it means you tried, didn't say it needs to be functional, right? :-D


----------



## DavePolaschek

You're more than welcome to hang out, Jeff. And I understand not wanting to bite off something completely new. Heck, there's a couple times I've wondered what the heck I'm doing trying to build what I'm trying to build. At least plans B, D, and E are simpler if things go horribly awry with plan A.

Still got half a day to sign up if there's anyone else on the fence…

Kenny, what the deadline on the HPOYDSS? I'm still debating that…


----------



## EarlS

> Earl! Which bandsaw??
> 
> And before you order the vise hardware have to seen hovarter? Kenny and Dave K have some and like em
> 
> - GrantA


Grant - I looked at Horvarter vises after Dave and Kenny mentioned them. I decided to go local though and Benchcrafted sells a package with both a leg vise and a tail vise. I went with cast iron handwheels. One of the first things I will try to make on the lathe (Dad is bringing it out in May!!!!!) is some knobs for the handwheels. And, yes, I'm going to make a pretty bench (oak top, cherry legs and frame, walnut front drawers, maybe some inlay on the leg vise and deadman). I have to try to keep pace with the one Dave K made.

I ordered the Harvey Ambassador C-14. 3HP and 14" clearance should be more than sufficient for my needs.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I haven't made a deadman yet Earl so you'll have me beat with that alone. But yeah, if you dont inlay something then you shouldn't have a nice bench. Just sayin.


----------



## HokieKen

Got my blade steel delivered today.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Made progress on possible bonus item today. May keep it haha. My son is helping, it's a great introduction to basic processes like screwing, gluing, rasping, sanding… 
Haven't started on the main event yet. But I have the metal bits and hopefully get a plan finalized soon.


----------



## Lazyman

After going back and forth I've finally decided that I'm in. I've got several types of planes I've wanting to try making and I figure the best way to get off my butt and do one is to joint the swap. I apologize in advance to whoever gets mine. Sending info shortly.

Kenny, How thick is that steel? Was that an eBay purchase?


----------



## HokieKen

That's 1/4" Nathan and yep, Ebay.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Welcome, Nathan! That's a dozen. Anyone up for being lucky #13?


----------



## drsurfrat

> ...
> Mike, I m learning as I go but I do have a furnace and would be happy to do your HT following known recipes such as that info I linked.
> - GrantA


Grant-
I'd like to take you up on that. My hardening with a torch got deep-red hot, but according to the phase diagram, deep red = ~1500F, and that is just under the Austenite transition, so I didn't convert anything, and realistically just annealed so drastically that it's approaching playdough.  Not really, but a file will scratch it easily. Can your furnace get to 1750F? (And how do you measure it?)

Once hardened, I can anneal with my regular oven (500F). Maybe we'll learn something useful.
Thanks


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Mike, Grant has a furnace similar to mine (I bought mine from Grant actually). They are computer controlled so they are pretty close to accurate. They have ceramic coated/protected lines that run in the furnace to detect temperature and can do a decent job of holding the temp at a certain period of time. Of course it fluctuates a little bit but there's a little give and take there in the hardening process so it's pretty easy to know you're good.

I've done a lot of hardening of different blades. I've done a few runs for Kenny and a run for Dave P. Doing it in an oven is a lot better but honestly, hardening one small blade like a plane blade where the first half inch is all the matters is easy enough of you have two torches maybe. To know when it's hot enough, put a magnet to it when it's red, if you feel any pull at all, you aren't to temperature yet. Just heat it until nonmagnetic and you know you're good. However, it's really hard to get a couple inch wide blade at an even temp with a torch.

Both Grant's and my oven can achieve 1750.


----------



## donwilwol

If you want to harden with a torch, google "coffee can forge". Easy build and like Dave said, use a magnet to get to temp.

You can also just stacked couple fire bricks together. It'll probably come up in the coffee can search too.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Well, we've got our twelve participants. Next deadline is May 16th for progress pictures. As in previous swaps, if I have progress pictures from everyone before then, I'll send out your recipient names early, which means more time for customization.


----------



## GrantA

5160 and O1 are excellent choices for home hardening with a torch. 
A2 requires a long soak at a narrow temp range to do it's thing. True for a plane theees a small area. Eeding to be hard but that's a tricky steel.
The furnaces Dave and I have can reach 2000 degrees and can be programmed to hold temp as needed.


----------



## HokieKen

It really depends on the thickness of the piece as far as soaking at temperature. Most technical information on O1 will also tell you to soak at temperature before quenching. And that is important for getting even heat through the full thickness. But, if you're dealing with 1/8" stock or thinner, I don't think it will make any practical difference. You just need to heat past the austentite transition (where it looses magnetism) and quench.

All that said, the pieces Dave has done for me in his oven consistently require less finish grinding to get them flat because the even heating results in less warping during the quench. So if an oven is an option, it's definitely my preference


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> 5160 and O1 are excellent choices for home hardening with a torch.
> - GrantA


1095 is also excellent, very similar to O1 but it won't come ground flat. 5160 doesn't usually either. So you will need to flatten it on a plate or something. A metal mill works great if you have one.


----------



## DevinT

Teaser


----------



## GrantA

Yeah what he said ^

Devin your teasers make my head hurt


----------



## DevinT

So far I have programmed 39 cuts for the plane. Only 3 more cuts to program for the design.


----------



## DevinT

A simpler teaser


----------



## GrantA

Any of y'all mess with laser engravers bigger than hobby machines? I'm getting a chance to try out a 150w Co2 machine, a good friend needs it moved to make way for another piece of equipment but he isn't ready to sell- he asked if I'd set it up at my shop, use it whenever I want and make it available for him to use. Heck yeah I'll bite. 
I'm most interested in cutting acrylic pattern templates with it. And I'm anxious to see how much faster it will burn images that I've been using my 2w laser for 
Anybody got other suggested uses I should check out?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Grant, I think you should engrave something on James Bond


----------



## drsurfrat

I had a 150 W laser at my last job (Boss 2436) It was very good for acrylic; both cutting and etching.

There are a few things NOT to us on it, especially polycarbonate (PC) and polyvinyl chloride (PVC). Both produce chlorine gas. Yep. Very bad.

I tried to etch glass once, but I didn't find the right settings (1 mm microscope slide is too fragile).

I didn't do wood, but even paper on the acrylic would sometimes ignite, so never walk away while it is running.

Definitely follow the mfg directions and cautions. If you don't have them, find them - some things aren't obvious (like PC producing chlorine, and the CO2 laser is not a visible beam; they follow it w a red light but isn't necessarily aligned, etc).

If you have any specific questions, I will try to answer.

opinion: it was very fun to use.


----------



## Lazyman

I just so happen to have this laying around from a previous swap.










What I learned last time is that I need to anneal it just to cut off a piece. It seemed to have some hard spots that were a PITA to cut. It would cut just fine and then it would just stop.I was thinking about just using a torch to heat it along the line of cut and letting it slowing cool. Any thoughts? Would it be better to just heat the whole thing in an oven? How hot and how long?


----------



## bigblockyeti

When I was at the steel mill we had four 8Kw Trumpf laser for production cutting steel plate between 1/4" and 7/8" which they could burn through very quickly. Not sure how much that might help.


----------



## DevinT

All finished with the design. Almost time to start milling lumber and doing test runs.


----------



## Lazyman

Teaser: first quick and dirty crude prototype for one of the designs I am contemplating.










BTW, for anyone who can't get a plane kit or doesn't want to mess with making your own from tool stelel, an old chisel can be easily modified into a plane iron. Sometimes the steel is a little questionable but it'll probably cut. Of well sharpened. I picked up a set of these for a couple of bucks at a garage sale a couple of years ago.


----------



## GrantA

Thanks for the tips Mike! It's a Boss LS-3655 with the fume extractor & chiller, AND he told me he had a digitizing board to send with it. I was imagining something about the size of an iPad. 
It's a 44×60" Logic Tracer board 8-0
THAT should be handy for making templates off of a prototype!


----------



## drsurfrat

Wow, big.

If you can draw it, you can cut it out. For 3D structures, I made half slots and built up from there. Here's a generalized antibody I made years ago, haha, now more relevant than ever….










It would be interesting to make an acrylic sided plane … but would be more fragile than cast iron if you dropped it.


----------



## HokieKen

Was that 1095 torch cut Nathan? That will make the edges hard. You can anneal it as you suggest or you can cut theough the hard edges with a cutoff wheel in an angle grinder.

To anneal, heat it to non-magnetic then let it cool on its own. If you can bury it in sand or soil to slow the cooling rate, it would be better. But it's not necessary in my experience.


----------



## duckmilk

Nathan, if you want to come use my forge or tools for any of this, you are more than welcome my friend. That piece would probably fit the forge one side at a time and I also have 2 tongs that would grab it. I might even have some beers you would like.
Gary, you are welcome also if you have a need.
Edit: I also have a heat treating guide you can utilize.


----------



## drsurfrat

I wish I lived in Texas…  Then again, I might still be a day's drive away.


----------



## Lazyman

Not torch cut that I can tell. In fact the edges weren't too bad. The hard spots seemed to be sort of in the middle. It would cut pretty easily with just a hack saw blade in a reciprocating saw then suddenly nothing would cut it. The cuttoff wheel worked a little better than the hacksaw but it was painfully slow and I finally resorted to a carbide metal cutoff blade on my angle grinder. Even that struggled through the tough parts.

Duck, I might take you up on the use of the forge if I cannot soften this stuff up enough or perhaps when it is time to harden it. Last time I hardened it using a chimney charcoal starter and blower. It worked ok but was a little hard to keep it at the right temperature long enough. MAP gas torch probably would have been easier. That reminds me, I need to make my way down to the Acopon Brewing Co. near Austin and pick up some brews. Those canned drafts you brought to me last summer were mighty tasty.

Come on down Mike. If you move to Texas the average IQ of both states will probably go up.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah Nathan, annealing the full sheet would be the headache-minimizing way to go. Duck's forge would probably be the best way to go about it too. I imagine he has a pile of organic "insulating material" around somewhere you could bury it in to cool slowly too.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> Kenny, what the deadline on the HPOYDSS? I'm still debating that…
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Pretty soon Dave  I didn't really set a firm deadline. Originally I said we'd take entries through March. But anyone who signs up before I assign names is good-to-go. I'll probably do that pretty soon though. I know we have all year to shop but a $40 cap makes it a little more challenging.



> ...
> 
> The 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th planes (out of the 5 total) I ever made were for these swaps. I have no idea how often most of them get used, other than what Kenny says he uses his for, but they were still fun to make regardless…
> 
> - Mosquito


I had a really busy weekend and got about 12 total minutes of shop time. But, the time I did get was spent testing your plane on some curly Maple  My design for my swap plane is 95% done but I'm still floundering a bit on the bed angle. I tried yours and my MF#8 (Stanley 3 size) with and against the grain. My "skeeter smoother" (still a WIP) out performed the #8 in both cases. However, going against the grain, neither one of them was good enough to suit me.

My next plan is to put a back bevel on the #3 to give a higher angle of attack. I'm tempted by angles everywhere from 50-60 degrees. I was limiting it to 50-55 but then I read a bit about even higher beds being ideal with a chipbreaker. Eventually I'll just use a random number generator formula in excel and let it decide for me. I may end up making the first plane bedded at 57.93854 degrees. Then I'll back out a plausible explanation for how my brilliant engineering brain arrived at that precise bed angle ;-)

I can't say I've ever seen a plane bedded higher than 55 degrees but The Schwarz says that 62 degrees is the magic number. He achieves it by using a back bevel. I've always avoided back bevels on anything because I don't like to have to keep notes on my sharpening angles. All my planes have 25 degree bevels. That's bevel up and bevel down. And I have some reservations about back bevels on BD planes because it will affect the chipbreaker fit. But, I have a Millers Fall Junior Jack that uses the same size iron as my #8 and the junior jack is a shelf queen (type 1 but has a brazed crack down the cheek to the mouth) so I figure I can experiment with that blade in my #8 for this testing without making any big pains in my ass.

I would say I would report my findings. But I won't cause this is a swap and a fella needs some secrets ;-)


----------



## doubleG469

> Nathan, if you want to come use my forge or tools for any of this, you are more than welcome my friend. That piece would probably fit the forge one side at a time and I also have 2 tongs that would grab it. I might even have some beers you would like.
> Gary, you are welcome also if you have a need.
> Edit: I also have a heat treating guide you can utilize.
> 
> - duckmilk


Thank you Duck, I have never done this before so I did the smart thing…. I bought Iron LOL


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Kenny, I have a 50 degree beveled blade from Lee Valley I switch out on my bevel up planes that ends up being a combined angle of 62 degrees. So Veritas and The Schwartz agree.

You can see it here.


----------



## EarlS

The more I read the posts for the plane swap the more I realize that Dave P has a nefarious plan to lure all of the participants into switching to hand tools. Making a plane is a gateway activity. You don't realize it , but it starts you down a long, expensive path that goes on and on. As I read the posts, click the links, and generally try to learn a bit more about planes, I feel like I'm standing on the edge of a cliff, looking into the abyss. There is so much more, just beyond my grasp, but I must resist the temptation to jump in.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

The plane will be a good compliment to the hand tool workbench you're building. Just sayin.


----------



## Keebler1

Whats the hypodss?


----------



## HokieKen

Hand Planes of Your Dreams Secret Santa


----------



## JohnMcClure

Earl, I'm pretty sure Gandalf said "fly you fools" and would not appreciate being misquoted. Could be wrong though.
And I think you're right about Dave P.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Ahh, so I can ponder it a bit longer, then. The $40 limit will be… challenging, since the Global Stanley #3s I bought a bunch of were $35 or so. If I can make one of those into something worth shipping with less than $5 of additional parts, I'm golden, but they don't really sing unless a guy adds a Hock blade, which is… more than $5.

Earl, I figure you'll be there eventually, especially after we take you to Handworks when it happens. Besides, abysses are nice are dark and comfy!


----------



## HokieKen

+5 for John and -5 for Earl.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Reset that counter Kenny, I just dug this up (haven't verified but sounds reasonable):


----------



## HokieKen

-5 for John and -5 for Earl too. The movie doesn't matter. He said "fly" in the book.


----------



## jeffswildwood

I had a really rough day yesterday. Had the #2 covid vaccine sat. and it decided to wait until sun. to hit me. If the illness is worse then the vaccine (I'm sure it is), I'm glad I didn't catch it!


----------



## DavePolaschek

I had the #2 yesterday, Jeff. My sweetie felt pretty rough all day today, and I was a bit tired, but we still managed to plant the four junipers we bought after getting our shots. We've got seven little perennials to plant later this week - hopefully the weather will cooperate. Supposed to have 45-60 mph winds tomorrow while I'm getting the oil in my truck changed for the first time in 15 months. Then next week it's time for motorcycle service on the bikes, one of which I have to ride to ABQ for (recall on the fuel pump, so I have to go to the dealer).


----------



## DevinT

Teaser: Without giving away too much (I have redacted parts of this photo), I have uploaded all the parts to my plane to the Shaper hub for CNC.


----------



## duckmilk

I seriously don't think you're giving away too much Devin. Your teasers are entirely opaque to me.


----------



## HokieKen

I just hope Devin realizes that ultimately she has to ship a physical plane. This is not a digital exercise ;-)

I wish I had an origin….


----------



## DevinT

duckmilk,

Let me set the stage:

1. I have a Shaper Origin, a $2500 router made by Festool that contains a computer, a camera, and stepper motors. You put down "shaper tape" (they look like dominos and they call them "fiducial markings") which allows the shaper, through its front-facing camera, to know where it is in realtime.

2. I have a Shaper Workstation, a $450 platform which contains permanent shaper tape and several T tracks and doodads for getting your stock material at the angles you need and co-planer to the shaper tape.

3. I use Inkscape to draw a series of scalable vector graphic (SVG) images that I then upload to the Shaper (either through the cloud or using a USB thumb drive to transfer it from the laptop to the router).

4. I select my stock, turn on the origin, scan in the dimensions of my working area (by literally moving the router around so the camera captures the shaper tape), create a grid dimensioned to the stock, and load up the SVG images

5. I place the SVG images onto the wood using augmented reality played out on the touch-screen monitor built into the router.

6. I make the cuts.

When all the parts are cut, I glue them together. When all the parts are glued-up, I take them back to the Shaper and put on the accents. Then I will take sandpaper to the sharp edges to break them wherever needed, and we're ready for finishing.

I should be able to repeat this step as many times as I like and get the same results, every time. I might have to make some adjustments to the cut types/paths if the wood doesn't want to cooperate, but in essence by stating that I have uploaded the SVG images to the Shaper Hub, I am stating that I can now produce on a small scale as many planes as I like with all the same features.

For the first 10 planes (might revisit this number), I am doing a "signature series" which has more accents than the ones that will come after the signature series. I won't say exactly what all the differences are just yet, but just know that the swap recipient will be receiving serial 3/10 for the first run, consisting solely of signature-series of this model.

This is the first model I have designed (spurred entirely by this swap), and I have more models in the works. I probably won't make more than 10 of this model unless Lee Valley gets their program together and starts shipping kits more regularly. I might switch over to St. James Bay kits, but that will require a new design (a larger design to accommodate the wider blade and chip breaker).

I put a lot of love into this design. The model has a name, but I'm not willing to divulge that yet because that may give away one of the unique characteristics that no hand plane has every incorporated, ever. Suffice it to say that just as Sargent has XXX (e.g., 424 for the 24" jointer plane) and Stanley has X and X Y/Z (with and without C for corrugation), I already have a model number for this plane based on the size of this unmentioned unique characteristic.

I'm sorry I can't be more specific. Some details I'm just not willing to give up until the recipient receives theirs.

ASIDE: Serial number 1 is staying with me, and Serial number 2 is going to my father.


----------



## Keebler1

Devin I need your address and need to know when you will be away and the shaper unlocked…that sounds like a neat tool and i drool over it every time i see an ad for one


----------



## DevinT

Keebler1, for the purposes of using while I'm gone, no problem. As long as you clean it and care for it like its' your own. For the purposes of theft however, I have to warn you and others reading that I am combat ready. You might get the Origin, but you're not getting it unscathed.


----------



## Keebler1

Lol


----------



## torus

> duckmilk,
> 
> Let me set the stage:
> 
> 1. I have a Shaper Origin, a $2500 router made by Festool that contains a computer, a camera, and stepper motors. You put down "shaper tape" (they look like dominos and they call them "fiducial markings") which allows the shaper, through its front-facing camera, to know where it is in realtime.
> 
> 2. I have a Shaper Workstation, a $450 platform which contains permanent shaper tape and several T tracks and doodads for getting your stock material at the angles you need and co-planer to the shaper tape.
> 
> 3. I use Inkscape to draw a series of scalable vector graphic (SVG) images that I then upload to the Shaper (either through the cloud or using a USB thumb drive to transfer it from the laptop to the router).
> 
> 4. I select my stock, turn on the origin, scan in the dimensions of my working area (by literally moving the router around so the camera captures the shaper tape), create a grid dimensioned to the stock, and load up the SVG images
> 
> 5. I place the SVG images onto the wood using augmented reality played out on the touch-screen monitor built into the router.
> 
> 6. I make the cuts.
> 
> ....
> 
> - DevinT


Yep, hand tool abyss as promised ))


----------



## DevinT

> Yep, hand tool abyss as promised ))
> 
> - torus


Not sure if sarcasm based on my lack of describing hand-tool procedures required to achieve this. It's not all CNC work. In-fact, I have to mill the lumber by hand because it is rough, aged lumber that cannot be imported/exported due to CITES appendix II restrictions on the species. That is the sole reason for acquiring the Stanley No 8, so that I can mill this expensive lumber (by hand, because I am a strong believer that hand planes get better results than a planer/thickness-planer combination).

I will also be using chisels, spoke shaves, and 2 other kinds of hand planes in the process of making this plane. The CNC aspect simply allows me to create more in less time with as little waste wood as possible. For example, that block of wood that most people have left over when making a hand plane entirely by hand, I won't have, because I cleverly took the front cutout and flipped it upside-down so that I can push it up against the blade bed. I will have minimal waste by doing this, which is a good thing considering how expensive this wood is.

However, I guess you could have been referring to the fact that I am getting sucked into an abyss wherein I produce hand tools ad nauseam. I would be alright with that, as it would push me to invest in higher production equipment that I could play with.


----------



## JohnMcClure

That limited edition of planes is going to be gorgeous. 
Looking forward to seeing it.

I have made progress! But not enough. Need to drop by the hardwoods store and look for something attractive… I have a big hard maple blank but methinks something contrasting is in order. And I'm likely to ruin the first blank anyway.


----------



## EarlS

Devin - did I ever tell you about my dice mallets?

I seem to have the same problem with making "just one". Currently working on a clock for Recycle1943, err make that 4 versions, nope - 6, yep 6 versions of the same clock. I don't have the Shaper Origin, though. I'm definitely jealous, but then again, it might feed into my need to make umpteen versions of a project and then wonder what to do with all of them. At least planes are useful. With 6 clocks, I'll never know what time it really is.

Kenny - does this mean I have to send back my Prancing Pony sign?


----------



## torus

> ...
> Not sure if sarcasm based on my lack of describing hand-tool procedures required to achieve this. It s not all CNC work. In-fact, ...
> 
> - DevinT


No sarcasm at you! It was joke based on Earls post. In fact I envy your set of tools and skills ))


----------



## DavePolaschek

Got our first P.

I laughed at Torus' comment about falling into the abyss.

Have finally peeked in all the boxes of books that remain. Two boxes of paperbacks, and one of hardcovers yet to unpack. Plus about 10 shelves of paperbacks that are unpacked and sitting in the master closet. So a dozen more shelves will get me much of the way done.

Five bowls sitting in the "finishing room" of the shop (the corner of my bench) with shellac on them.

I think the plan for the rest of this week is to cut the lumber for the shelves and get started on my swap plane. Having a P up there helps remind me I need to get moving.


----------



## HokieKen

Why am I having to swat yellowjackets in friggin' April?!

I guess it could be related to my turning stock…


----------



## HokieKen

Dave P - I posted in the HPOYD thread but in case you don't see it… I'm gonna pass out secret santa names (aka give everyone my address) on Friday. So poop or get off the pot ;-)


----------



## EricFai

Ken, are you sure they are yellow-jackets, my guess would be carpenter bees. They are just looking for a home and that looks like the perfect spot.

They are very active here at my house.


----------



## HokieKen

Maybe carpenter bees Eric. I have beer goggles on. In any case, they're bees and we don't normally see them this early round here.


----------



## DevinT

Speaking of beer, when is the next beer swap?


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Dave P - I posted in the HPOYD thread but in case you don't see it… I'm gonna pass out secret santa names (aka give everyone my address) on Friday. So poop or get off the pot ;-)


Oh! I'm getting your name? Heck, then I can ship off any old piece of crap, right? Erm, I mean, I have JUST the thing! ;-)

Guess I'll go look at the rules again.


----------



## EricFai

That beer swap does sound like fun. Do the rules state that it must be of wood?


----------



## HokieKen

Beer swap happens every summer around july/august. I imagine it'll follow this swap and happen a little earlier than normal this year


----------



## DevinT

Growing up, we could never go from point-A to point-B on vacation without hitting every micro-brew in between. My sister and I have visited more breweries than I can count that way. Now my dad is jealous that I live a stone's throw away from Triple Rock, Jupiter, Pyramid, Marin, and others. Like my dad I developed a taste for the hoppier beers. Can't wait for the swap. A chance to try something new and share some favorites.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I kinda figured you were on deck with the beer swap, Kenny. But it's supposed to be a hot summer, so early isn't all bad, right?


----------



## HokieKen

Beer is kinda like dinner and sex Dave. It's never too early for me ;-)

So, I'm gonna tip my hand a little more about my swap project… I have flip-flopped back and forth about a dozen times on whether I'm going to include a hammer to set my plane or incorporate a Norris-style adjuster. I've designed the Norris adjuster and incorporated it into my design but then last night, I saw Konrad Sauer's latest IG post which is a video where he shows how to set one of his planes up with a hammer. Which is prompting me to flop back to no adjuster…

Personally, I like my adjusters on my metal planes, bailey pattern and norris. But, I also have my "Mo Smooth" plane (still a WIP) that I set with a hammer. And I don't really think it takes any longer to get it dialed in than it does any of my other planes. And in truth, I think the hammer is more intuitive and precise after just a couple of practice rounds.

I can go either way on this build. But, when I look at a couple of Konrad's planes (can you tell I like this dude's work?) side-by-side, the adjuster doesn't "ruin" the asthetic but I think it kinda diminishes it maybe. These two are the exact same model plane, just one has an adjuster and one is hammer-set.


















So, it's poll time! What's your preference after looking at the images and watching the video? (Not that my plane will be anything like those images…) But I'm curious how many of you prefer which. Your comments will definitely inform my design and depending on how the timing shakes out and what stage I'm at when Dave passes out names, you might just get exactly what you ask for regardless of the popular opinion ;-)


----------



## DavePolaschek

Beer: it's not just for breakfast, lunch and dinner any more, Ken?

I prefer an adjuster. Maybe it's because I don't have a nice plane hammer (which would be a *swell* bonus if the plane doesn't have an adjuster - hint hint), but I still don't have the knack of adjusting a plane that lacks an adjuster, and on my little smoother that I use all the time, I'm almost continually fiddling with the adjuster as I'm smoothing out the dovetails, because if one end is with the grain, the other is almost certainly against the grain. And in pine, that means an adjustment to the depth of cut.

I'd probably adapt if I had no choice, but I do have a choice, so there it is.


----------



## Keithbrad80

Hello everyone,

I'm pretty new here and just discovered this idea of a swap. I think the idea is really awesome and would love to participate, looks like I'm a little late for this one, does any one know when the next one will be? Thanks again!

Bradley


----------



## HokieKen

If I do end up going adjusterless, a hammer will absolutely be included.

I will also add on the subject - A plane with a screw-type lever cap would be easier to set precisely with a hammer than one with a wedge I think. With the wedge, if you leave it a little loose while you're setting the blade, tapping the wedge down tight can cause the blade to move on you. Also, if I go adjuster less, I'll "sneck" the blade which is basically adding a lip on the top that allows you to tap the blade out with the hammer as well as in. In a lot of cases, you have a strike button on the back of the plane to back the blade out.


----------



## HokieKen

> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm pretty new here and just discovered this idea of a swap. I think the idea is really awesome and would love to participate, looks like I'm a little late for this one, does any one know when the next one will be? Thanks again!
> 
> Bradley
> 
> - Keithbrad80


Welcome to the site Bradley  If you like beer, the Annual Lumberjocks Beer Swap will happen around the first of July when this one is over. If beer isn't your thing, there will be another "serious" swap starting up somewhere around September to wind the year up.


----------



## Mosquito

Hammer time for me


----------



## EarlS

Kenny - make one of each, send them to me and I will try them out and get back to you with my findings. I wouldn't want you to send an official swap participant a bum plane.

Same goes for Devin (or anyone else) - I'm willing to be the tester. It's the least I can do since I'm sitting this one out.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I hadn't thought about screw-cap vs wedge, Kenny, but you're onto something there, I think.

Earl, that's mighty generous of you to offer. I knew we could count on you!


----------



## DevinT

I'm voting adjuster all the way.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Well I'm in over my head.


----------



## bndawgs

> Well I m in over my head.
> 
> - JohnMcClure


LoL, I'm getting nervous just reading these posts. And I'm not even in the swap


----------



## DevinT

Why is there a *P* next to Woodmaster1's name in the participant list?


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Why is there a *P* next to Woodmaster1's name in the participant list?


Because I've received his *P*rogress picture. P for progress, S for shipped, and R for received. It's our incredibly high-tech way of tracking where people are at in the swap.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Devin, he sent a progress pic - overachiever.

Kenny, make a shelton style adjuster for the best of both worlds, It's pretty much a Norris adjuster that you want to hit with a hammer.
If you're going infill I'd pick the norris adjuster, too much mass to adjust easily with a hammer.


----------



## HokieKen

Mike, I'll pass on the shelton adjuster. Nothing's grounded. Bad design theory…

I'm not doing an infill plane but curious why the mass makes any difference when it comes to adjusting with a hammer? If you look at the instagram video I linked from Sauer, he's adjusting an infill with a hammer. And with a snecked blade, you can back it off as well.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Sneckled?


----------



## Mosquito

Snecked


----------



## MikeB_UK

Ah, that's because he's hitting the iron to adjust it, how does he back it up a bit?.
Edit, ah snecked, looks awkward 

Normally you hit the body of the plane to move the iron.
Momentum holds the heavy metal in place while the wood moves slightly, well probably, it's sciency stuff that no one understands at that point, the wood may flex slightly as well because a steel soled smoother I've got doesn't adjust right.

In neanderthal terms, tap the front for a deeper cut, tap the back for a lighter cut (or on top infront of the blade if it's a long body)

Harder the hit in relation to the weight of the plane and the bigger the adjustment.

So here's 2 extremes with the hammer I use behind them.

The big plane is 3 1/2 inch wide and weighs just under 4 1/5 pounds, I can use the walnut hammer, but it takes a bit.

The coffin smoother has the wedge sticking out further than the iron, makes it easy to do micro adjustments, tap the front (or back), then tap the wedge to lock it, The iron never gets touched.


----------



## HokieKen

Gotcha Mike. Yeah, that's why the snecked blade. I think that, coupled with a screw-style lever cap will lower the difficulty curve in using a hammer to near zero. At least that's my theory…

In the video with Konrad Sauer, he adjusts down only. To back it up, I'm assuming he would just loosen the lever cap enough that he could move it by hand. Personally, I think a sneck would be preferable. I really don't have any idea why he doesn't use them. Or maybe he does tap the back of the infill? Doesn't seem like it would be all that effective though with the lever cap instead of a wedge.


----------



## MikeB_UK

I don't think a lever cap / wedge will make any difference (PSI v Surface area), not tried it though, I may need to make a Krenov style one so I can try the same blade & body with a wedge and screw cap to see if there is any noticable difference.

Having the snecked iron gives the choice of hitting the metal or the plane though. As long as there is a flat bit or strike button on the back or top of course (Flat bit on the front for bonus points).

Using the body of the plane has the added advantage that you can use your bench as a hammer if you're inconveniently a couple of inches too far away from the adjustment hammer.


----------



## HokieKen

To me the lever cap should make it easier than a wedge for the simple reason that you can loosen or tighten the lever cap a bit without moving the blade. That's just a hypothesis though since I've never had a plane with a lever cap that lacked an adjuster. So somebody in this swap may end up being my guinea pig ;-)


----------



## EricFai

Ken, you are making my think more, but I am thinking the hammer. I have read about both adjustment methods, and it starts to get above my skill with a plane. I have used a few, and never built one.

John, I am with you, might have gotten in over my head here.

The blade set I received last week does not have an adjuster, so I was thinking about the hammer to as a bonus. Picked up part of the hammer over the weekend. Cook delivery next week and I will have all my parts to start building.

This is going to be fun, should have ordered to blade sets though.


----------



## drsurfrat

OK, is there an official description of a "plane hammer"? I use whatever chunk of metal or tough plastic is available.


----------



## donwilwol

> OK, is there an official description of a "plane hammer"? I use whatever chunk of metal or tough plastic is available.
> 
> - drsurfrat


I think the description is "whatever chunk of metal or tough plastic is adjusting the blade."


----------



## HokieKen

> OK, is there an official description of a "plane hammer"? I use whatever chunk of metal or tough plastic is available.
> 
> - drsurfrat


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Here's another. The small one in there so nobody gets confused.


----------



## EricFai

Ken, it looks like brass fitting with maybe a wooden hammer head. What is the length of the handle? I am guess about 12"


----------



## Mosquito

Wait Kenny, why did I get the shorty? Also, mine broke pretty quickly… I've still got the pieces, but the purple heart on mine split in half. Have to glue it back together but haven't had that type of epoxy in the shop for a while… I've actually just been using it as is ever since lol


----------



## KelleyCrafts

The one Kenny sent me broke too. I think a fatter handle is a good thing with these.


----------



## HokieKen

LOL. The Jatoba one is still going strong. Guess y'all got your money's worth.


----------



## DevinT

This is what you mean by a plane hammer, right?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Well. I linked all the names up there in the top post in case you're looking to cyber-stalk a fellow participant. Note to MakerOfSawdust, if you don't participate here in the thread, nobody will know anything about you, so you're unlikely to get any cool personalizations to the plane. I'm not going to bounce anyone for not participating, but popping in to say howdy once in a while is a nice thing to do.

Just a reminder, names will go out either on May 17, or when I've received a progress picture from everyone (whichever is sooner). If I don't have a progress picture from you by May 16, your name won't go to anyone else, and thus you won't be getting a plane in the mail.


----------



## HokieKen

I have to say, I've never seen one of those before Devin. And still can't say I want one but it's pretty cool


----------



## HokieKen

> Ken, it looks like brass fitting with maybe a wooden hammer head. What is the length of the handle? I am guess about 12"
> 
> - Eric


I doubt if it's even that long Eric. Probably more like 8-10". The head is just a piec of brass round bar I turned and cross-drilled for the handle mortise. Then I drilled and tapped the other side and attached the wood face with a piece of all-thread. At least that's how I think I did it. It's been a minute or two since I made those


----------



## Mosquito




----------



## Mosquito

No thread on the wood end of mine, it was just a smaller brass tenon, and a drilled out wooden cap


----------



## EarlS

> Here's another. The small one in there so nobody gets confused.
> 
> 
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


That set of hammers looks really familiar. In fact, I think I was using the little one last night, but not on a plane.


----------



## HokieKen

I made the wood face on mine threaded so I can replace it. Have never needed to though.

How's that for irony?


----------



## HokieKen

Here's my keeper with a 12" scale.









I swear I made the wood face threaded on mine at least, obviously not on Mos' and can't recall how I did Dave's. But I couldn't get it to unthread by hand. And it works well so I ain't about to force the issue. FWIW, I find that I use this hammer constantly in the shop. It has a permanent spot in the tool well on my bench. I probably only use it on a plane ~5% of the time. So if you're thinking you might make one but don't have any planes to use it on, go ahead and make it anyway ;-)

I have a lot of ideas for hammers now that I have a milling machine in my home shop. So I might lean to that method just so I can make a cool hammer ;-)

Here's a pretty good write up with photos on setting different types of planes without adjusters from Derek Cohen. It's a little different from the video from Konrad Sauer that I linked yesterday in that Derek uses a glass plate for the initial blade setting.

I don't use a glass plate but I use my workbench top to set my planes (regardless of whether they have an adjuster or not) as well. I go a step further and use a digital height gauge with magnetic base to check the projection of the blade on each side before I put it to wood for the final tuning.


----------



## Mosquito

It just boils down to "put the blade in it and start tapping until you figure it out" lol

I use my plane hammer a lot too, not just for planes. I do also use it for planes with adjusters too. Sometimes a little tap from the plane hammer is a much finer adjustment than most lateral adjusters. As such, it hangs off the back of my bench with my other two main mallets. Though I got a lump hammer from LAP that I quite like, so I'll have to find room for that one now too


----------



## HokieKen

I use the lateral adjusters on my bench planes but the hammer does the lateral adjustments on all my block planes whether the plane has a provision or not…


----------



## DevinT

Made some final adjustments to the hand plane design yesterday. I added some thumb contouring. Having read the comments about wanting beefier handles, I decided to make a few features (like the front knob) over-sized. I think it will be quite comfortable to use.


----------



## EarlS

Devin - So that's what an 8" planer looks like? I'd like to to see Roy Underhill use it on his show.


----------



## HokieKen

No Earl, that's what a ginger planer looks like. The thing he's holding is a plane.


----------



## doubleG469

Dear Lord, I'm reading through here and I swear this plane talk is written in some foreign language. I may be in WAY over my head. Turn a bowl, sure thing, make a box, ok I am in. Adjusters, snecked blades, plane hammers… WTH?

Someone may be getting a block of wood, an old chisel and a link to Paul Sellers….

Just saying - expectations set.


----------



## HokieKen

Just think of planes like turning skews for flat work Gary ;-)


----------



## DevinT

I will admit that when I needed a thickness planer, my hands were tied. My neighbor had one and he let me use it, but I saw the dust collection system required and knew right then that I needed to give hand planes a serious try. I did about 30 days of research and then bought a jack plane from my local MacBeath Hardwood store. It was a Shop Fox for about $75. It was horrible. The blade would not retract all the way and it caused nerve damage in my hand. I returned it. Neighbor lent me his Veritas No 4. I was hooked on hand planes. The surface it left was superior to anything I had ever seen. I then did another month of research and bought a Stanley No. 8. I also have from my neighbor a Veritas apron plane, flat spokeshave, and cabinet card scraper.

I think anyone with a couple months of research can learn everything you need to know about planes. There is of course some esoteric knowledge that I came across which is helpful that I will share when needed.

For example, I learned during my research that cracks behind the mouth are often caused by backing the frog up too much where the blade is resting on the throat. When you push through the wood, it causes the blade to press against the throat which can "rip the throat out."

Of course, I just threw more terms at you like frog, mouth, throat, etc. but these are all easy things to learn.


----------



## EarlS




----------



## HokieKen

And I'll admit that I love my hand planes. But my thickness planer does the heavy lifting and it ain't going anywhere. On the other hand, I don't even remember the last time I rolled my jointer out of the corner where I shoved it a couple of years ago…


----------



## Mosquito

I use my jointer for board faces a lot more often than edge jointing. Last time I used my jointer it threw a chunk of wood at me and made me bleed. Probably payback for that time I tipped it over


----------



## DavePolaschek

And we've got our second P. Guess I should get my butt in gear instead of playing around with other stuff in the shop.


----------



## seeds444

Shipping from Mexico to the USA takes 21 working days. I just missed the cut-off. Maybe next year.


----------



## EricFai

Devin, that plane just cost a small fortune to across country. But I like it. Think the only use would be old school on a hardwood floor. Or maybe a table top.

Dave, Guess I need to get my but in here too. But I need my wood delivered. (Early next week).

Ken, I'm liken' the plane hammers. Probably could used elsewhere in the shop.


----------



## DevinT

Eric, which plane(s) cost a small fortune in your opinion?


----------



## EarlS

> Eric, which plane(s) cost a small fortune in your opinion?
> 
> - DevinT


I'm guessing it was the road flattening plane you posted. The one that can plane an entire tree. Of course Rockler "sells" it.


----------



## DevinT

I've never seen it for sale. I just thought it was a one-off that someone made as a gag or shop decoration.


----------



## DevinT

Found it

I don't know if you can buy it though. It looks fully operational, or at least the one made by Jackman Works appears to have a real blade.


----------



## EricFai

That's the which was in the photo.

But this has me thinking again, insurance and tracking, plus postage or freight.


----------



## EarlS

Devin - you know I was kidding about the plane - right? Sometimes there is so much sarcasm and kidding that it is hard to tell which ones are the serious comments.

On a "serious" note - the C-14 bandsaw will be delivered on Tuesday. My folks will be here in mid May. Dad is going to get the bandsaw set up correctly, along with setting up the re-furbished lathe he built before I was born, and maybe figure out the PC drill press runout problem. If there is still time, we will start working on the Roubo bench.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Building the roubo with your old man will be sweet man.


----------



## Keebler1

Earl forget having your dad set up the bandsaw and get started on figuring out the DP and get that workbench done. You can easily watch youtube and set the bandsaw up yourself. Its actually not that difficult.


----------



## HokieKen

Earl's dad's a machinist. He'd give Snodgrass a big "pfffft" and the finger then do it right Keebler.


----------



## EarlS

> Earl's dad's a machinist. He'd give Snodgrass a big "pfffft" and the finger then do it right Keebler.
> 
> - HokieKen


+10 - Dad was a machinist for 40+ years.

I'm sure we will have time for working on the the other stuff, but the lathe is what I'm looking forward to the most. I've always wanted one, but knowing he made it is more valuable and memorable, by far.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Seeds, there's almost always a swap happening. Next up is the beer swap, then I'm not sure what's after that. I don't think we've had a participant from Mexico before. Shipping may be an issue.

Still playing with other stuff in the shop today.










Now I just need to get the frozen saw nuts off the old saw so I can clean up the plate…


----------



## DavePolaschek

And we have three Ps. You guys have been busy!


----------



## DevinT

yes, they have.


----------



## HokieKen

I've been busy too. Just not on a plane unfortunately…


----------



## DavePolaschek

The *P* signifies that I've received a *p*rogress photo from the person. When we all have *P*s after our names, or on May 17th, whichever is earlier, I'll send each of you a name for who to send your finished plane to. Once you've sent, you get an *S* and when you've received your wonderful gifts in the mail, you'll get an *R*. When all the names have an *R*, we'll reveal, which means that everyone posts a picture and a brief bit of gushing about the wonderful swag they've received, and once your recipient has posted their reveal, you can post your project.


----------



## doubleG469

Heck I haven't even started, and now I just put myself in maybe a pickle. Gave my son my table saw yesterday and the outfeed table I had it set up with…... I am lost. wait, I have a bandsaw…

to the batphone… gotta figure out how to cut straight lines on the bandsaw. Wait, I need wood!

Can ya'll tell I am very prepared for this swap?

LOL hopefully this is setting the bar really low for my skills.


----------



## DevinT

I haven't cut any wood yet if that makes you feel any better.


----------



## HokieKen

I haven't cut any wood yet either.


----------



## Woodmaster1

I am shooting for looks over function. I am sure it will look better than functions. This is only the second time I made a plane.


----------



## JohnMcClure

I was prototyping using a red oak desk leg, which has it's own cool backstory.
Evidently it had some cool nails driven into the bottom as well. Oops.


----------



## DevinT

JohnMcClure, oh my! I hope that didn't mess up any of your tools.


----------



## EarlS

> I was prototyping using a red oak desk leg, which has it s own cool backstory.
> Evidently it had some cool nails driven into the bottom as well. Oops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - JohnMcClure


I "discovered" a couple of bullets in some walnut with a table saw blade, which didn't go so well for the saw blade. It was the only time I've seen sparks shooting out of the back of a cut.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Gary, I made a plane last year without a shop. Pretty much all hand tools working with the tailgate of my pickup as a bench. But then I'm used to working more minimally. If straight lines are an issue, make a compass plane. ;-)

John, that sucks. At least you found them early in the process.

Got another P. Or two.


----------



## drsurfrat

> I "discovered" a couple of bullets in some walnut with a table saw blade, which didn t go so well for the saw blade. It was the only time I ve seen sparks shooting out of the back of a cut.
> - EarlS


bullets are almost always copper and/or lead, which don't spark, and shouldn't do much to your blade. I wonder what kind you "discovered "


----------



## MikeB_UK

Gary, if the line wanders a bit on the bandsaw, just lop some bits off so no one can tell.

Bit like what this hack did.


----------



## HokieKen

> I "discovered" a couple of bullets in some walnut with a table saw blade, which didn t go so well for the saw blade. It was the only time I ve seen sparks shooting out of the back of a cut.
> - EarlS
> 
> bullets are almost always copper and/or lead, which don't spark, and shouldn't do much to your blade. I wonder what kind you "discovered "
> 
> - drsurfrat


Maybe somebody nailed the bullets in there to make sure they wouldn't fall out.


----------



## bndawgs

Found this in some walnut I picked up. I couldn't tell how old it was. But maybe 10 years?


----------



## DevinT

I learned of a new hand plane company today … Lazarus

Not as expensive as Karl Holtey's hand planes, but definitely more than Lie-Nielsen.


----------



## Woodmaster1

> Gary, if the line wanders a bit on the bandsaw, just lop some bits off so no one can tell.
> 
> Bit like what this hack did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somebody revealed my plane for the swap early


----------



## Keebler1

Gary if you want to come over and use my table saw on a friday evening or Saturday let me know.

Anyone looking to learn fusion360 udemy is having a sale. Hopefully its worth the $14 i spent on it.


----------



## GrantA

Lots of chatter around here- I like it! Much better than checking in and only seeing 2 posts- keep it up!
I've got about 3000 bdft of cypress to sort/cull through this weekend (hopefully I can finish). Barely squeezed it into the shop amongst the other crap. Whew it's time for a beer


----------



## EricFai

Gary, don't feel bad. I am still waiting to receive the wood for my build. I do have a sketch ready and I will be out in the shop to start making a proto build. Should make the actual build go smooth. At least hope so. Never built one before.


----------



## EarlS

> I "discovered" a couple of bullets in some walnut with a table saw blade, which didn t go so well for the saw blade. It was the only time I ve seen sparks shooting out of the back of a cut.
> - EarlS
> 
> bullets are almost always copper and/or lead, which don't spark, and shouldn't do much to your blade. I wonder what kind you "discovered "
> 
> - drsurfrat
> 
> Maybe somebody nailed the bullets in there to make sure they wouldn t fall out.
> 
> - HokieKen


There were nails in it too. My guess is that someone used it as a fence post, which also qualifies as a target post. That is the reason most sawyers won't buy urban trees. The miscellaneous metal broke several teeth off the saw blade.

Since this is a plane swap and you kind folks have been talking up planes so much, I thought you might like this one:


----------



## Lazyman

I really need to decide what type of plane I want to make. I really haven't done anything since I did my quick and dirty prototype because I have spent the week learning how to replace binding cane on an old family heirloom so that we can drive it up to NYC for my daughter in a few weeks.


----------



## DevinT

EarlS, I'd skip the bridge city HP-12, personally. For all the engineering they put into it and as much as they charge to own one, I have yet to see somebody have an easy time of removing the blade from the silly thing. It sounds like something trivial but clearly the designers think it works best when sitting on a shelf. Attempting to remove the blade causes you to awkwardly consider grabbing it by the bezel, but you realize the danger in doing that, so you instead consider trying to jam something under the blade from the side to lift it enough to pry the blade from its dinosaur like jaws. If anyone can demonstrate a clean way to remove and install the blade, I will change my opinion, but until then I think it is one of the least practical planes ever made.


----------



## EarlS

Devin - it sure is pretty though. I almost choked when I saw the cost.


----------



## DevinT

EarlS, check out Lazarus planes and Holtey planes. In my opinion, they put Bridge City to shame.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Personally, I wouldn't recommend buying anything from BCT since Harvey bought them. A guy shouldn't have to pester the ex-owner of a company in order to get a reply from the one customer support guy because parts on his multi-thousand dollar tool broke.


----------



## DevinT

I own some bridge city tools. So don't get me wrong. They make great tools. I just think they went a little off the deep-end with the HP-12


----------



## DevinT

I have the BCT MS-1 miter square. It's nice. I use it when I need it. I tend to like the stuff before they got bought. Though the new Try-Square (TS-2) looks nice with its ability to convert to a saddle square and built-in dovetail marking gauges are nice additions in a try-square


----------



## HokieKen

My issue with BC is the same issue I have with Woodpeckers - you don't use Aluminum for tools. I don't care if it is for woodworking, Aluminum is too soft and fast wearing. And anodizing doesn't fix the problem. Anodize is a coat of oxidation that's usually .0005-.0007" thick, not a casing of titanium. And for the prices they charge, hardened steel should be the order of the day.

I do like the idea of a variable angle plane though. I actually considered pursuing it for this swap. I shelved that idea pretty quickly…


----------



## DevinT

My Plan A for the swap was a wooden plane with an adjustable mouth (I have a unique design), but I scrapped it because I need to make a prototype to see how it functions first before I pawn it off on some unsuspecting soul.

I too admit that a variable angle plane seems like the next adjustment that the tool is missing. We've had lateral adjusters, depth adjusters, and frog and/or mouth adjusters for ages, but in this day and age still no angle adjustment, and that seems crazy to me. The first person to put an angle adjustment on a plane (maybe incra-style so you have positive registration detents for standard angles, but variable at set increments) I predict will make a lot of money (as long as the rest of the device is sound or they patent the mechanism).

Though I am not sure it's the end-all/be-all of features that is needed. Standard pitch, middle pitch, York pitch, high pitch, scraper pitch, ... I haven't quite had the chance yet to evaluate these in tough grains. So far I've been relying on sharpness at standard pitch to tackle tough grain. However, I haven't tried planing anything tougher than Bocote yet.


----------



## DevinT

Ken, aluminum? Are you kidding me? They make some of their tools out of aluminum? That's just wrong.

I cut aluminum with wood bits. It sands easier than plexiglass. I dropped my cheap miter gauge once and had to sand out a huge dent that deformed the blade. I can't imagine that anyone would make anything but cheap tools out of the stuff.


----------



## EricFai

Shop time this morning, proto type of second part almost ready. Need to make a trip to hardware store for a small part. Had the idea while working this morning.


----------



## HokieKen

Most all of WP tools are red anodized aluminim Devin. And I have BCT's small speed square that's gold anodized aluminum (and wasn't true flat when I recieved it though it's probably flat enough to fool most people). Anodizing can change the surface shape and as far as I know, you can't surface grind anodized aluminum without compromising the anodizing. So making aluminum squares and precision layout tools seems ridiculous to me.

And the BCT mini square was an impulse buy when they did a $8 flash sale on it. I probably wouldn't recommend it even at that price. On the other hand, I have an older BC saddle square that's brass with inlaid wood that is both sexy and functional that I love. So I'm not crapping on BC as a whole, just some of their tools….


----------



## DevinT

I love my brass + rosewood miter square (version one, back when BCT was under original ownership) I got from eBay recently for $50


----------



## HokieKen

No Aluminum here…


----------



## DevinT

Is that an AlTiN bit? What kinds of speeds and feeds? Do you have a cooling system or fluid or paste you are using to keep the bit cool?


----------



## DevinT

Oh, and is that high carbon steel? I have cut mild steel with my CNC using an AlTiN bit from Amana with LubriCut to keep the bit cool and used 0.11"/min plunge rate, 8k RPM, with 5"/min feed rate, but I get bluing on overlapping passes with thin 1008 steel (.03" thick).


----------



## HokieKen

That's a solid carbide end mill running somewhere between 700 and 1200 rpms and no clue what I'm feeding at. I just tweak my vfd and my manual feed rate until it sounds and feels right. Sorry but that's about the best info I can give. After 20 years, I honestly just go on instinct more often than I calculate speeds and feeds. Especially on that steel which is a stainless blade steel that I've never worked with before…

CNC is a different matter of course but unfortunately I don't have the luxury of access to that anymore…


----------



## JohnMcClure

Eghghgh… 
Bonus item works and is nearly finished, so that's a plus.
But I made a prototype of the main event and its… not satisfying. Need some troubleshooting before I cut any expensive wood.
I think I know the root problem…


----------



## DavePolaschek

Sorry, John. Been there, done that, got the merit badge.


----------



## EricFai

John, I'm right behind you there. I'll start in with the main event tomorrow, sample wood of course. This is turning out to be lots of fun.


----------



## HokieKen

You have my e-mail John if I can offer any suggestions…


----------



## EricFai

Good day in the shop Proto type of the second part completed. Think it turned out well. I'll have to make a few fine tuning adjustments on the one to ship. Now off to lay out a blank for the plane. Again photo type to see if I run into any problems. But I should have ordered 2 blade sets, so I have one for myself.


----------



## HokieKen

I feel sure they're still taking orders Eric ;-)


----------



## EricFai

Ken, I bet they are. I also see that they have other types of blades also, like the carving sets. I have never made cutting tools before, do my best bet is to order the blades and make my own handles. The Hock blades do do look pretty good and I have heard a number of comments about them.


----------



## HokieKen

I've only had one Hock blade and it was in a Record 07 jointer plane I sold recently. I liked the thickness of it but honestly didn't see any real advantage over the vintage blades in my other planes as far as edge retention or sharpness. The PM-V11 blades from Veritas are another story though. I haven't quantified it yet in an apples-to-apples test but I'd be willing to be it holds its edge 3X as long as my O1 blades. And it isn't that much harder to sharpen.

Don't get me wrong, not throwing off on Hock at all, he makes good stuff. Just sayin' if I were shopping for a blade to make a plane for myself, I'd give the Veritas kit a serious look ;-P


----------



## EarlS

> EarlS, check out Lazarus planes and Holtey planes. In my opinion, they put Bridge City to shame.
> 
> - DevinT


Those are some fine looking Lazarus planes but a couple of them cost almost as much as my bike and it is titanium (Lightspeed). And the Holtey planes look like they are on a different level altogether.


----------



## HokieKen

Lazarus and Holtey are both top notch makers. Good solid design behind both too.

I'm also a fan of fellow LJ JayT's design. It's kind of a hybrid between an all metal and an infill. It's a unique style and by all appearances, very functional.


----------



## Keebler1

Ill take one of Jay Ts design i dont have any decorations on my shop wall yet


----------



## EricFai

I looked into Lee Valley, and the ship date was to far out for me to make the swap dates. As for the sharpness of the blades, time will tell.

I managed to get the block laid out this evening, on to the shop tomorrow to start cutting it out.


----------



## DavePolaschek

The thing I like most about Ron Hock is that he just seems to be on top of his game. It's just O1 steel, it he's either got it in stock or will tell you the situation. And he responds to emails. I may well go visit Ron and Linda next time I'm in northern California on the bike.

The PMV-11 is a neat steel, and I like the Veritas plane kits a lot, but I don't have any urge to visit even one of the Lee Valley stores.

I like Raney's planes, too. But if I'm going to buy one of them fancy-pants planes, I'm more like to send Bill Carter an email to get on his list.


----------



## DevinT




----------



## JohnMcClure

!!!!!


----------



## JohnMcClure

Devin do you mind naming the species of wood you are using in that picture?


----------



## DevinT

John, the wood in the photograph is Bubinga from my local MacBeath Hardwood store.


----------



## EricFai

Good weekend in the shop. One proto type completed, and the second one milled. Ready for the delivery of the woods being used this week. For a rookie in tool making, I don't think I did a bad job. However it will tell when I set the blade and get that first paper thin shaving.

Looking for to this, and having fun in the process.


----------



## DavePolaschek

And another P joins the list. Glad I've cleared the bowls out of the shop and can get cracking soon.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Are you sure you got them all out Dave? They seem to be breeding at an alarming rate.


----------



## EarlS

> Are you sure you got them all out Dave? They seem to be breeding at an alarming rate.
> 
> - MikeB_UK


Dave's problem is that he keeps feeding them. His plight reminds me of the tribbles on Star Trek.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Good day for me too. No shop time, but some thinking, measuring, and drawing time, and I'm more confident than before about this plane build.
I think my prototype showed me what can go wrong; and I'll build another proto from tubafors possibly just to make sure the geometry is dialed in.

So now my need is for some really cool wood to offset the overall simplicity of the design. I have some hard maple but suspect I can do better, plus I need at least 2 species anyway for contrast, maybe 3.
Wood recs anyone? Hell I can just give ya red oak with old nails in it!


----------



## drsurfrat

I think I solved my A2 steel hardening method










It's a quart can that is lined with 1:1 plaster of paris : sand. I got the A2 to be non-magnetic with the MAP torch through a hole in the side.

Thanks all for the suggestions.

And don't worry, I fired it up on a marble slab in the garage, not on a wooden workbench…


----------



## Keebler1

I bought a 10bf pack of shorts of grenadillo from woodworkers source for $99 shipped. Got 6 boards about 4.5" wide by 24" long. It was all 4/4. Check with them on shipping times though. Don't think it took more than a week and a half or so to get delivered


----------



## EricFai

I have an order from Cook Woods coming in tomorrow. They shipping times are about a week across country. I am using one of their peppermill blanks, then ordered a few other pieces for a contrasting color, with the few pieces I have in the shop.


----------



## DevinT

I still have 2 parts I am waiting on. One is a router bit from Canada, which apparently Kempston is the only company that makes this one router bit I need, and the other item I am waiting on is a part which only comes from one small town in Indonesia. Both are sitting in Customs right now and should be here by the end of the month.

Yesterday was also a productive day in the shop. I made 5 test engravings, taking down steps in my notebook so that when it comes time to engrave the final product it goes smoothly.


----------



## EricFai

Devin,
Engraving, that sounds interesting. The reveal is going to be good, whom of the 12 is going to have best of show.


----------



## DevinT

It's going to be interesting, for sure.


----------



## DevinT

So far on this plane, I've:

Spilled 6 pages of ink in my notebook
Generated 11 CNC files
Calculated 24 measurements
Performd 5 tests in wood

and I am sure there will be more as the days progress.


----------



## EarlS

> So far on this plane, I ve:
> * Spilled 6 pages of ink in my notebook
> * Generated 11 CNC files
> * Calculated 24 measurements
> * Performd 5 tests in wood
> 
> and I am sure there will be more as the days progress.
> 
> - DevinT


Don't forget all of the posts and information you've shared. Those take time to write.


----------



## EricFai

Great job Devin. You have listed a lot of information here, thanks. Sorry to hear about the spilled ink, that stinks, even more if it covered all of those notes you have been taking.


----------



## DevinT

Earl, true true.

Eric, thanks. Unable to detect sarcasm, but "spilled ink" is a euphemism for writing.

No notes were harmed in the making of this plane.


----------



## EricFai

I guess that is understandable, not all the time do I get that sarcasm down in words. Glad to see you are working on this plane swap. Can't wait for that reveal, to see the build.


----------



## DevinT

Oh, and the best part … so far I have added 2 new skills. A new engraving style inspired by Mirock, and using threaded inserts in dense hardwood without tearing out the face grain. Still more challenges to come and more skills to learn on the way.


----------



## EricFai

Always good to learn new skills. I need to work on the sharpening skills. I need to make contact with a carver, whom my father taught. He teaches carving now, sport woods.


----------



## DevinT

I will admit … one of the things I have to do to make this plane makes me nervous as hell. One wrong slip and the machine will try to retract the submerged cutter, ripping the handle to bits, potentially breaking the router bit, and possibly destroying the router in the process. I am fairly confident I can pull off the maneuver, but that doesn't mean I won't be scared out of my mind doing it. Oh, and if something does go wrong at that stage, it will be destroying the plane after it has been fully assembled. Yeah, I'm going to lose a lot of sleep thinking about this one shape.


----------



## EricFai

Skimming through profiles here and looking over projects of folks here. There is some talent in the ones I have looked at. I can see where this swap thing can be addictive.


----------



## Lazyman

It might be a good idea to practice a cut like that in some foam. On a regular CNC you can run a test run in the air but on a SI, that is not possible. I guess you could remove the bit for test run?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Yep, Eric. The swaps have been a great way to challenge myself and try new things. Pretty sure I'm not the only one who's learned a lot.

Devin, I know I would sure be trying to figure out a way to do a test run.


----------



## HokieKen

Chatty bunch lately  We took a long weekend in the Smoky Mountains so I've been otherwise occupied. No work on my plane.

For me, this swap has been an exercise in design moreso than execution. At least this far. Still a long way to go though ;-)


----------



## DevinT

Shaper Origin has an air cut mode.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm pretty sure every tool has an "air cut" mode.


----------



## Lazyman

I've nearly finished with my furniture refurb projects for my daughter so I can get back into deciding what type of plane I want to make, or at least prototyping some designs. Well, after I drive it all up to NYC anyway-not looking forward to that.

Speaking of the Smoky Mountains…it looks like I'm going to be passing through your neck of the woods next week, Kenny. I might be looking for a good micro-brewery to stop at, if we end up there for one of our overnight stays on our way to NY.


----------



## HokieKen

Hollar at me if so Nathan. I have a package to send your way. You can save me some shipping ;-)


----------



## DevinT

I had to up my game for this swap, developing new techniques


----------



## DavePolaschek

So this morning a question arose in my brain.

When I'm building something for a swap, I generally size totes to fit my enormous paws.










I realize that I'm on one end of the bell curve, but I figure it's a lot easier to rasp the tote smaller later than try to grow it somehow.

So what do those of you with smaller hands think? Should I design totes smaller out of the gate, or should I keep making them huge and let the recipient adjust as needs be?

No particular reason this came up today…


----------



## EricFai

Interesting thoughts,

My opinion would be to go with the larger size. But that would be more up to the maker, if we know whom was receiving then the plan could change. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## GrantA

Kenny's guitar has an air cut mode hahaha

I just unloaded my new electrical panels for the shop- good grief the main panel is bigger than I expected 8-0
I hope it'll still all fit where I wanted it to go….


----------



## DevinT

I have big hands. If the handle is too small, I get nerve damage. Had to return a Shop Fox plane because of that and really my hand fits well in the standard Veritas tote. Meanwhile, everytime a handle has been bigger than my hands it has been no issue at all. In fact, I think manufacturers call that "over molded" and they charge a premium for it. I quite like over-molded designs. Just my two cents.


----------



## MikeB_UK

I'd go with the giant monkey paw grip, but I also have big hands.

Besides, it's going to be awkward to test if the grip feels right if you scale it down.


----------



## EarlS

The Shaper Origin looks like a handheld CNC machine. Pretty slick

Meanwhile here's a non-swap teaser


----------



## DavePolaschek

For your sake, I hope nothing goes wrong, Earl. But should something fail, I can send you the email addresses of three or four of the top executives at Harvey that were copied on the emails while I was trying to get the parts I needed to fix my JMP.


----------



## GrantA

Wow it's in excellent shape Earl! I can't believe UPS Freight didn't run a fork through it… We need pics of it outta the box though! 
Dave I'd like those addresses to ask who handles their freight hehe


----------



## EricFai

Ok, back to the size of the tote, I made a proto this evening, and I found to to barley fit the hand from the top to the bottom. I am using a book to help me with the build. Either way it sounds like they need to be a little longer, more so if it is going to be enclosed.

Side note, received my delivery of woods today, yeah.


----------



## EarlS

Here are some pics out of the box. I haven't turned it on yet. Still reading thru the manual to make sure there isn't some hidden screw or something that needs to be removed before starting. They were very liberal with the grease and cosmoline or whatever was on the cast iron top. The manual looks fairly comprehensive with plenty of parts diagrams and decent instructions.

I've noticed a couple of quality concerns. The lower door sags so the bottom edge rubs on the base. Neither the upper or lower door close tight enough to seal the weatherstripping. The bottom door hinges aren't particularly tight either. Hopefully, the rest of the machine is good. It certainly is heavy (400 lbs) and the cast iron top looks beefy as does the rail for the fence. Tomorrow will be the test run. Once I've used it a bit on the wood for the bench, I'll need to write a review. I do find it interesting that there has been a lot of chatter about Harvey products on LJ, with most of the posters being really new. Maybe I'm just a bit paranoid.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Congrats on new band saw Earl.

Harvey made band saws for Laguna & Powermatic for few years. The discontinued Laguna LT14 SUV specs look identical to C14. Don't remember PM selling a 14" with 3HP and 125" blade. Expect you can find other similarities, if you poke around some manuals.

I'd be paranoid too. but not for potential quality issues, or even warranty support.
Harvey is trying hard to make a dent in US equipment market, after US import tariff on Chinese machinery forced OEM's to switch back to Taiwan producers. With purchase of Bridge City tools, and new US division, they absolutely must work hard to get a good reputation and create a lasting presence in US.

I worry what happens in 5-10 years.
Last thing anyone wants to see is repeat of GeeTech Taiwan introduction in 80's. After ~10 years they realized they could not compete without a direct sales like Grizzly, and closed the doors on the US import office. That is when warranty and parts become a problem for owners. At least Harvey has a US division, with US employees; not making the mistake the Geetech mistake of only selling through dealers.

Worst case, WWIII starts with China, America First revolutionaries burn all Chinese owned business to ground, and/or gubermint simply adds 100% tax on Chinese goods; then never see Harvey product support or spare parts again. Just spit balling here, as that will never happen, right? 

Don't worry it is only money…..


----------



## GR8HUNTER

a very nice new band saw Earl :<)))))))))))))))

as for the bigger handle im not sure about a plane but when Jeff sent me my new knife i was very happy in seeing and feeling a bigger then most handle but i too have huge paws :<))))))))))


----------



## DevinT

Sigh. I wanted to see some video of a ball router bit in action. Lots of videos on ball *end* router bits and ball *nose* router bits, but no videos on ball *tipped* router bits.

Guess I am just going to have to wait for the bit to arrive to see it in action.


----------



## Keebler1

Devin have it sent to me I'll take a video of it in action lol


----------



## HokieKen

Be very cautious with that thing Devin. That's about as poorly designed as a bit can be for chip evacuation. I would try to plow as large of a groove as possible ahead of running it and back it out every few inches and clear the swarf if it's feasible.


----------



## DevinT

Luckily, how I plan to use this is to run the bit with only ~50% submersion, where it is captive in the wood only on the left, bottom and top, so the chips will be able to evacuate out the back, front, and opposing side. However once I enter the cut I won't be able to leave it until I double-back and reach the entry point.


----------



## HokieKen

In that case, you should be fine  As long as the chips have somewhere to escape.


----------



## DevinT

Oh, and I am going to do it in 2 passes. First pass will submerge 1/8" and second pass will be to 1/4"


----------



## JohnMcClure

That's freakin cool.
Cant wait to see what you're making.


----------



## DevinT

There is another router bit that fascinates me. It's called a double arc dragon ball router bit Looks like this:


----------



## CaptainKlutz

I call those rosette cutters? 
https://www.infinitytools.com/rosette-cutters-7942



> There is another router bit that fascinates me. It's called a double arc dragon ball router bit
> - DevinT


----------



## DevinT

CaptainKlutz, thanks! I wasn't sure what it was, and now it makes sense.


----------



## HokieKen

Me too Cap'. I have to admit though, putting "dragon" in the name makes me want it a lot more than something named "rosette" ;-)


----------



## donwilwol

> Me too Cap . I have to admit though, putting "dragon" in the name makes me want it a lot more than something named "rosette" ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


says the guy in the cape!


----------



## Mosquito

I don't know Kenny, Rosette's are pretty good…


----------



## HokieKen

Maybe Mos. But dragons are better…


----------



## doubleG469

> Maybe Mos. But dragons are better…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


If you are focused on the Dragon in that photo, there may be a problem… just sayin…


----------



## EarlS

> Maybe Mos. But dragons are better…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> If you are focused on the Dragon in that photo, there may be a problem… just sayin…
> 
> - doubleG469


You're correct - that is some fine looking rustic woodworking.


----------



## DevinT

You guys are a hoot!


----------



## HokieKen

There's a dragon in that photo?


----------



## doubleG469

> There s a dragon in that photo?
> 
> - HokieKen


There's woodworking in that photo?


----------



## donwilwol

do you suppose Kenny would be breathing fire if she scratched his chin?


----------



## duckmilk

> You guys are a hoot!
> 
> - DevinT


That's just the tip of the iceberg Devin.


----------



## duckmilk

> do you suppose Kenny would be breathing fire if she scratched his chin?
> 
> - Don W


I'm sure his wife would breathe fire if she caught him.


----------



## jeffswildwood

> a very nice new band saw Earl :<)))))))))))))))
> 
> as for the bigger handle im not sure about a plane but when Jeff sent me my new knife i was very happy in seeing and feeling a bigger then most handle but i too have huge paws :<))))))))))
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - GR8HUNTER


I hope it's still holding up good Tony.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Congrats on the bandsaw Earl. A good bandsaw and a drill press are the most important tools in the shop IMO.

That picture makes me think a dragon would be handy for forging. Cost less to run too, just feed it one of the neighborhood kids every now and then.


----------



## EricFai

Neighborhood kids, don't you mean the trespassers. Save the taxpayers money, and bullets are getting expensive. Just saying.


----------



## Keebler1

> Congrats on the bandsaw Earl. A good bandsaw and a drill press are the most important tools in the shop IMO.
> 
> That picture makes me think a dragon would be handy for forging. Cost less to run too, just feed it one of the politicians every now and then.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


Fixed it for you Dave


----------



## HokieKen

Nope Dave had it right to start with. Feed it the kids. They're worse than politicians or trespassers.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Kids could grow up to be trespassers or politicians. You guys need to think things through more. Cutting the snake off at the head and all.


----------



## Mosquito

or both… trespassing politicians, or political trespassers?


----------



## HokieKen

I could use a dragon right now. Gotnin my truck to go to the gym and it started snowing. On April 21 :-/


----------



## Mosquito

oh, that's not normal Kenny? We've had some sort of snow fall 3 days so far this week


----------



## DevinT

CrazyRussianHacker has your dragons …





 (first gadget)




 (jump to 8m34s)


----------



## EricFai

You guys can keep your snow, I am enjoying the warmer weather. Little chilly today with the wind, but no snow.


----------



## DevinT

Or you could just put dragons on your hands

Or my favorite, ... a real (yes, honest to goodness, real) light saber (ok, technically it's 4k degree plasma, but who cares, it cuts through steel and melts titanium!)





 (build)




 (test)


----------



## DavePolaschek

Definitely not missing the snow. Set up the birdbath and hummingbird feeder again today after taking them down for last weekend's freeze. Tomorrow we hopefully finish up the spring planting.

Got my first tubafor prototype put together yesterday. Discovered that my plan is *perfect* if my recipient doesn't actually want to ever move the adjusteror change the plane blade. Guess I'll be working on version 2 soon.


----------



## DevinT

The second to last part for the plane came in today. Did more engraving today, trying to nail down the depths of various engravings. Got one of the engraving depths figured out at 0.015" which works best for the tiny fonts. Have to go deeper for the bigger bolder fonts.


----------



## DevinT

Dave, I am sure it will work out.


----------



## HokieKen

Dave, as long as it comes with the blade set perfectly and the blade will remain sharp forever, that should be just fine.

I just skimmed your links with no sound Devin. I actually kinda want one of those chain mail coin bags! The light saber is one of the better ones I've seen but there's still a long way to go. People have been working on those things for nearly 50 years now, I fully expect to see a fully functional one that is fully contained, lightweight, and compact in my lifetime 

I might have to build some of those punch-actuated flame throwers…


----------



## DavePolaschek

That's what I figured, Kenny, but then I put the blade in upside down and had to disassemble everything.

I'm actually a little proud of myself for using tubafors to figure out the exact geometry on this one. Given lumber prices, I could be using something *much* more expensive to find my mistakes, but I'm managing to be somewhat frugal.

Today is planting day again, but I'm hoping to get an hour or two of shop-time this morning while waiting for it to warm up outside. Hopefully I can get a bunch of mistakes out of my system in that time and get back to a real build tomorrow. Or maybe just crank out another bookcase or two.


----------



## HokieKen

These days, tubafors ARE the expensive material Dave. At least around here. Hardwood prices haven't really gone up any at my local sources. But construction lumber is about triple what it was a year ago…


----------



## DavePolaschek

Yeah, I haven't priced them recently, but when I had the shop built last year, I had the framers leave behind all their leftovers, so I've got a pretty decent stash of foot or two long tubafor pieces I can use for prototyping, and they're already paid for. Which is the best price of all.


----------



## bigblockyeti

This is 2×4 price around me as of yesterday, this meets my definition of expensive.


----------



## HokieKen

Wow, it was $7.29 for me a few weeks ago and that made me pee a little…


----------



## Mosquito

It's got me torn… I've got a couple extra 2×4's in the shop, from the "buy a few extra so when they twist like a twizzler I've got spares" approach to buying framing lumber. They're old boards that I keep around just 'cause you never know when you need 2x, but with the prices as high as they are, I'm tempted to no-receipt return them if it means I can get an extra $6-$7 lol But then I wouldn't have them, and if I needed them… would have to buy them at the expensive prices…


----------



## bigblockyeti

I'm not yet done siding my shed and I'm planning on a mezzanine which I already have 3/4" plywood for the flooring. I'll be picking up an LVL to rip into appropriate beam sections, beyond that, I need to buy fifteen 2×8x8' joists and that has me more than a little concerned. The right thing to do would be nail them to each kind stud with a jack stud supporting, but I'm thinking of just using a couple 3/8" carriage bolts to attach the joists to the king studs with no jack stud, mostly because 2×4 are just so darn expensive right now.


----------



## EarlS

meanwhile, I'm buying 8/4 walnut for $3/BF and cherry and oak at $2/BF rough cut from a guy on Craigslist.


----------



## EricFai

Earl, don't let that guy find out about the lumber prices going up. He want to get that price increase.


----------



## DevinT

Today, this 22nd day of April, I have to once again be thanking vehemently Dave P.

You see, when I first ordered my plane kit on March 28th, LV told me it would ship early April. I was getting really nervous that it had not shipped yet, so on April 9th, Dave P sent me one he had on-hand. Thank goodness he did, because …

When April 12th arrived, LV changed the ship date to May 12th.
And today they just changed the ship date again, ...

to July 2!

All plane kits from LV are now quoting July 2nd, except for the O1 kit with 1 5/8" blade, which is showing Aug 6th.

I think I'm going to have to call LV a wash after this swap. Absolute rubbish game they are playing. I really wanted to make one of these planes for myself and my father, but I guess that's not going to happen now, unless I can acquire two more of the same kit to go into the bodies I designed.

EDIT: At this rate, I think my best bet is to just send Dave the $$ for the one he sent me (on the contingent I send him the one I ordered when it arrives) and just consider the one I bought from LV is never showing up. March became April, which then became May, which has now become July. If it actually ships in July we're talking ~4 months. I can't start a business making hand planes with this kit if it takes ~120 days to get one kit.

EDIT: I have half a mind to go full-tilt and start manufacturing adjusters or pay someone with the equipment to do it simply so I don't have to deal with this. I'll just buy a PM-V11 blade, put in my own adjuster, and call it a day. That would probably be more cost effective anyways, considering the blade is only $38.90 saving $18.60 over the cost of the kit.


----------



## HokieKen

LV's supply chain is in dire straits like most are right now. I think they're doing their best to report restock dates based on what their suppliers tell them. But regardless of the reason, they are unreliable at present so I wouldn't want to base a new business model on them being a supplier.


----------



## HokieKen

You can get the parts made and probably save money over the kit Devin. But you'll have to buy in bulk.


----------



## DevinT

The only two parts that concern me are the parts that attach to the threaded rod aside from the knurled knob. I will start doing some research.


----------



## EricFai

Sounds like we need to go back a 100 years plus or so in time. Old school craftsman.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Devin, last I checked (admittedly a week ago), they still had adjusters in stock. And they have the 1¾ and one other blade in O-1, but pretty much nothing in PMV-11. If you want to find me an adjuster and a blade in PMV-11, I don't need the other parts from the kit. Email me and we can work out deets.

The only thing that looks "special" to my eye is the adjuster. Yeah, the blades with the holes in the right place are nice, and PMV-11 is nice, but personally, I don't mind O-1 much, especially if I have to make any tweaks to the stock blade.

BUT, a thing to consider with LV is that if you start ordering parts in bulk (i.e. trying to make a business selling things made with their parts), they can cut you off at any time. Much better to find a machinist who can make you the parts you're after on a reliable basis, and who won't see you as competition if you start being successful.

Anyway, I'm glad you've got the bits you need for the swap. If you're looking to set up a business making planes, I would strongly recommend against counting on Lee Valley for parts. They're a retailer, and if you start competing with them, they're likely to have "issues" supplying you. Find someone to make parts for you, instead. The adjuster is just a rod threaded with two different pitches, one left-hand, and the other right-hand. Then there's the pivot and the bit that connects to the blade. Pretty sure there's a patent from the early 1900s on it, and Don might be able to point you to it, even.


----------



## DevinT

I would think competition would be if I bought in bulk and resold for lower prices, not if I bought at retail and used in a product they don't make or offer.


----------



## DavePolaschek

You would think, but I had a previous encounter that tells me that if you move into the retail space, selling a product that includes parts bought from them, they'll find a reason your orders aren't a priority, even if it's a product they don't offer.


----------



## DevinT

Patent 11526/13, right Don W?


----------



## JohnMcClure

Just checking in folks. I've been quiet for a few days as I'm busy with work and family. However, I have a few tuba for cutoffs lying around and plan to make prototype #2 (and burn the first one haha) this weekend.


----------



## HokieKen

The patent for the Norris adjuster from 1913 is pretty sparse.

There is an active patent held by Stanley that includes a similar adjuster.

I have a design that I was going to make for this swap that has two unique features that aren't typical of norris adjusters and that I couldn't find any evidence them being done before. But, my design got a little ambitious so I decided to leave that off. I have the design documented and tucked away for the future though ;-)


----------



## doubleG469

Sounds to me some of these (all) companies need to rethink their Mfg. and start making things in the US again.


----------



## HokieKen

With the current push to ridiculously inflated minimum wages, you're going to see just the opposite Gary. You can't make a buck in manufacturing if you have to pay the low man on the totem pole $15/hour…


----------



## doubleG469

> With the current push to ridiculously inflated minimum wages, you re going to see just the opposite Gary. You can t make a buck in manufacturing if you have to pay the low man on the totem pole $15/hour…
> 
> - HokieKen


Sad but true story… I guess the low man on your totem pole will need his ME at the least.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah right, like engineers make $15/hr.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Kenny, you got some that are willing to take $15?


----------



## HokieKen

If the work is easy enough, I might John ;-)


----------



## DevinT

I got to talk to Ron Hock on the phone today. What? I just called the number and he answers. I wasn't quite sure what to say. I momentarily lost the ability to speak, but something stupid eventually came out like "you're actually Ron?"

I felt like I had to make my point as fast as possible to not waste his time. He was actually very nice. I think I'm still at a loss for words.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Kind of funny Devin. Yesterday I put an order in to Rob Cosman for a DT saw he had on sale and a couple other things and 10 minutes later my phone rings from Canada it says. I'm thinking something must have happened with my order or something,nope…Rob Cosman chatting me up about my DT experience, citrus in AZ, rats that love to eat citrus, and thanking me for the order. He was a chatty dude, had me on the phone for over 9 minutes which I honestly can't remember being on the phone longer than that to anyone that wasn't a work meeting.

Crazy.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Devin,
Isnt it great to deal with small companies like that?
If you enjoyed that experience, here's a source for bits for your Shaper, the owner gave me an hour explanation of feeds/speeds/chipload and bit selection:
Ron Reed, Think and Tinker Ltd.

Rofl Kenny. It's not that easy!


----------



## DevinT

KellyCrafts, Wow! I love this story. I admit I am a Cosman fan.


----------



## DevinT

John, absolutely amazing. Thanks for the tip on feeds/speeds for my Origin!


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Went from a crush to now a fan…quick edit but the email tells all. Don't knock the dude for chatting with me. You can have a crush on him, it's cool.

Couldn't resist.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

As you probably know Devin, Andy has several videos on feed speeds and bit selection for different materials on the Shaper site. I think they did a weekly Shaper live on it too at one point. Great info for cutting brass/copper, plexi, etc.

I think they have links to the bits they used so you could get comparable ones at the business John pointed you to I'm sure.


----------



## Mosquito

> Kind of funny Devin. Yesterday I put an order in to Rob Cosman for a DT saw he had on sale and a couple other things and 10 minutes later my phone rings from Canada it says. I'm thinking something must have happened with my order or something,nope…Rob Cosman chatting me up about my DT experience, citrus in AZ, rats that love to eat citrus, and thanking me for the order. He was a chatty dude, had me on the phone for over 9 minutes which I honestly can't remember being on the phone longer than that to anyone that wasn't a work meeting.
> 
> Crazy.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


I had a similar experience as well, kind of caught me off guard


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Me too Mos.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> I got to talk to Ron Hock on the phone today. What? I just called the number and he answers. I wasn t quite sure what to say. I momentarily lost the ability to speak, but something stupid eventually came out like "you re actually Ron?"
> 
> I felt like I had to make my point as fast as possible to not waste his time. He was actually very nice. I think I m still at a loss for words.
> 
> - DevinT


BTDTGTTS - I stuttered like damn fool for 1st minute, unable to get my thoughts together.
Was looking for the unlisted #10 replacement blade and cap iron, many years ago.
It's on the website now.


----------



## Keebler1

Finished this seam ripper today.

















Dang it I need better lighting or to give up on taking pictures


----------



## DevinT

I just sent Ron Hock a custom design for a blade. Things are getting serious now.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Some progress on prototype #2 today, in 2×4 pine.
If I can prove the concept within a week I'll be on track. If it fails… hahaha.


----------



## DavePolaschek

We got seven plants in the ground today, since the wind was down and it was pleasant working outside. Last time I made shavings in the shop was… I don't remember. Monday or Tuesday? Gotta get back out there and make some progress soon. It would be *quite* awkward being dropped for being the only person with no progress picture in a swap that I'm running… still, good thing there are three weeks remaining before that deadline.


----------



## HokieKen

If y'all think those calls are exciting, just wait until you get a call from me one day. It's guaranteed to be the most heavy breathing and giggling you've ever experienced.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I get enough selfie texts that you think are sexy from you Kenny. No call needed.


----------



## JohnMcClure

0.002 shaving in maple, first attempt at setting the blade on my tubafor prototype. Not bad I think. Still a bit of tweaking for the final product, but I'll probably end up keeping the pine one for myself.


----------



## DevinT

John, excellent progress.

Dave, better got on it ^_^

I spent yesterday and half of today playing with oil-based enamel paint as an in-fill for engravings. So far I have not had good results. First attempt was to glop it on and scrape it off when it dried. That just took forever to dry and when I scraped, it was still wet in the center (12 hours later). Second attempt was at wiping the excess paint off with mineral spirits while the paint was still wet and fresh. That seemed alright, except some of the blue fibers got embedded in the paint (only visible at 30x magnification). Third attempt is going to be to put on a super light coat and see how long it takes to dry, and then use a card scraper and/or sand paper and see which comes out looking the best.

Also playing with a heat gun at various stages to see how that effects drying time, etc. Coincidentally found that 30s with a heat gun on low is enough to dry up mineral spirits without having to wait all day.


----------



## GrantA

Anybody care to chime in on Fusion 360 vs solidworks vs??
I'm going to have to invest some time learning something worth having, I've never been formally trained on any design software, I'm decent with sketchup and leaning towards Fusion but I think a handful of you may use some different solutions so I thought I'd ask!


----------



## DavePolaschek

Well, not today. We cleaned up around the little volunteer junipers and piñon in the yard, and built dams around them so when we water them (it's so dry native trees are struggling), the water stays put. And a neighbor brought over some ribbon grass he thinned out of his patch, so we planted that.

Maybe mañana.

With oil-based enamel, I give it 24 hours before messing with it. If I'm going to scrape it, I'll try to give it two or three days to make sure it's totally dry. With the No Poop on the Loop sign, I think the third coat of enamel got a full weekend to dry before I sanded across the edges to remove any slop.


----------



## Woodmaster1

I had a hard time with solidworks because I used autodesk Inventor pro and the process was enough different I found it hard for me to use. Mainly I was too impatient to learn it since I didn't really need to. I was a seven week sub at the local Vocational School at the beginning of the year so we concentrated on AutoCAD and inventor which I was proficient in and saved solidworks for the new teacher.


----------



## Keebler1

I have never used solid works. Just started learning fusion. Udemy does have a series on it that seems like it is good if you catch it on sale. Paid $14 for it but have only made it through a couple of videos so far


----------



## JohnMcClure

Devin. Infill paint is it's own frustrating little niche.
Personally I shellac first to seal the pores, otherwise paint ends up bleeding into the main surface;
Then I gloop on acrylic craft paint and, using a tiny brush, stab it into the crevices.
Immediately wipe the surface with a moist towel ro remove overgloop
Wait 12+ hours
Sand or scrape surface and red-hot crevices as needed.

But it's a challenge to do well with any method.


----------



## HokieKen

Solidworks is the most expensive and has the steepest learning curve. It's most capable but its full capability is rarely utilized. I don't have any time with Fusion but from what I've heard, it's quicker to pick up and it's definitely cheaper.


----------



## Lazyman

I have no experience with Solidworks. Fusion 360 is free for hobbyists though they did start limiting a few of the capabilities for the free use about a year ago. For the average hobbyist the limitations are not a big deal. Unfortunately, I learned Sketchup first so transitioning to Fusion has been a little painful. Even though SU frequently pisses me off and is terrible for certain types of 3D printing, I can still do things more quickly because of familiarity and usually just default to to it.


----------



## GrantA

I'm on the same page as you Nathan!
I tried fusion probably about a year ago and got frustrated trying to make a simple model. Meanwhile I can whip this up in SU no problem 








I'll just have to set aside some time to watch the tutorials and learn Fusion.

Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## Lazyman

I found that the Lars Christensen YouTube tutorial for absolute beginners the best jump start for F360 that i have seen so far. I've watched several of his videos and I seem to follow his examples better than the other ones for some reason.


----------



## jeffswildwood

I use autosketch 10 which I believe is made by autodesk. Very difficult to use, although I can get a basic plan done. The learning curve was very long. Getting details is very difficult.


----------



## HokieKen

> And a second one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Don W


Don W posted this in another thread. I went a-huntin' it on his site but couldn't find anything on it. Maybe he has a build thread he can point us to?

But, I thought the plane in the first two pics was a brilliant way to use a plane with a busted sole to make a hybrid-style plane  It give you the rigidity of a metal plane with an adjustable frog and the typical Bailey-style adjustments for depth and lateral in wooden body.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Transitional planes Kenny

Info and dimensions on the Marples one here
http://www.handplane.com/44/marples-prefabricated-smoothing-plane/

And a pretty good instructable on making one from a broken smoother here
https://www.instructables.com/So-You-Dropped-Your-No4-Hand-Plane/


----------



## Mosquito

I learned Autocad first four architecture in high school, then found and used sketchup throughout college and after. I started using fusion 360 about 2 years ago, mainly because I got the CNC. For simple things, sketchup is still faster for me, but for complex things, fusion seems faster.

The limitations that annoyed me on the free version the most were the removal of rapids in tool paths (now it limits it to the feed rate), and most of all not allowing tool changes anymore. Have to export multiple tool paths instead, and re-run through the startup procedure between each tool change.

That said, I totally get it. It's still really great for what you pay (just giving them an email address). I wish I could pay to unlock individual features. I'd take rapids and multi tool paths if I could, just can't quite justify the license subscription at this point


----------



## DevinT

I dug seen out of the wood pile. Based on my measurements, a single resaw, some thicknessing, and we should be ready for an actual prototype before moving onto some more expensive lumber. I think this is black walnut but I am not 100% sure as I didn't buy it myself but got it off a neighbor.


----------



## EarlS

Sounds like Devin has a really good neighbor.


----------



## DevinT

Had. He unfortunately moved 20 miles away. Not exactly a huge distance, but I definitely miss having him close by.


----------



## DevinT

Had my first failure today. I had forgot that Danish Oil is a 3-part mix of BLO, Poly, and … thinner. That thinning component dissolved one of the paints that I used in a test. The enamel stood up to the thinning element, but the other paints did not.

So, I know I have to pick up some BLO by itself, but I'm not sure what I should do for sealing it after I have painted and oiled the thing. Right now I am thinking a spray lacquer, though I could also go with paste wax. What would you use to seal something that has painted engravings after it has been oiled?


----------



## DevinT

Dave, John, thank you both for advice on enamel paint. Curing it for 24h did yield the best results. Also, thinning it a bit more helped it to dry faster.


----------



## donwilwol

apparently i haven't caught up to 2015 yet. Edit: https://www.timetestedtools.net/2021/04/26/a-look-alike-marples-2690-wood-hand-plane/


----------



## DavePolaschek

> What would you use to seal something that has painted engravings after it has been oiled?


In the past, I have used spar polyurethane over oil and oil-based enamel for engraved signs. I have also used wax over oil for tools, and shellac over oil for boxes. Generally, if I have doubts, I follow the rule that shellac will stick to anything, and anything will stick to shellac.

Using that, as long as your paint is fast to alcohol (not all are), you could put a layer of (dewaxed) shellac over the paint to seal it in place, and then put another finish over that.



> Dave, John, thank you both for advice on enamel paint. Curing it for 24h did yield the best results. Also, thinning it a bit more helped it to dry faster.


Cool. That's been my experience, but I haven't used a ton of oil-based enamels. I pretty much stick to 1Shot Lettering Enamels because I like the consistency and finished look.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> apparently i haven t caught up to 2015 yet. Edit: https://www.timetestedtools.net/2021/04/26/a-look-alike-marples-2690-wood-hand-plane/


So is an outfill plane when you wrap wood around metal? ;-P


----------



## DevinT

Shellac, ... I just can't.


----------



## jeffswildwood

I bought a can of briwax recently. (Never used it before) What you all tell me about it other then it has a *strong* odor. Is it good over danish oil? How about polyurethane. I sanded a test piece to 600 and it made a nice shine on unfinished cherry. It may be your answer Devin. Seems like good stuff.


----------



## DevinT

I have a can of MinWax paste wax that I use for tools. Makes a nice hard finish. I am thinking about experimenting with it.


----------



## jeffswildwood

> I have a can of MinWax paste wax that I use for tools. Makes a nice hard finish. I am thinking about experimenting with it.
> 
> - DevinT


I have some paste wax I have used for years. With just a test I like the bri. easy to use but that smell is really bad!


----------



## Keebler1

Earl where's the Pic of that bandsaw out of the box. It should at least be out of the box with the oils from shipping wiped off by now lol


----------



## EarlS

Keebler - I'll get a picture posted tonight (if I remember). I've run a piece of wood thru it and it cuts. I also managed to get the beast on a mobile base so I can move it around.


----------



## JohnMcClure

I'm hoping to visit the hardwoods store today, and check the shorts bin for pretty wood for the final product. 
Anything to look for, or stay away from, for a plane? I heard some ppl around here dislike purpleheart!!


----------



## Keebler1

Go buy pine and stain it to look like walnut or just go buy paduak


----------



## HokieKen

John - it really depends on the type of plane you're building. There are different considerations for an all-wood plane vs an infill vs a metal body with wood handles etc.

For an all-wood plane, you want something ultra-stable. Planes need flat soles to serve their intended function and you don't want to have to flatten it every time you go to use it. There are lots of options. QS Oak comes to mind as readily available. But if it's an option, a nice dense, tight-grained and oily-ish exotic would be my personal preference. Any of the Rosewoods would be suitable. Purpleheart will work just fine. Lignum Vitae, Desert Ironwood, Ebony are also common selections.

Basically the same applies to infills. It needs to be very stable so the blade bed stays flat and also so the wood doesn't expand/contract and put stress on joints between the sides and the sole.

If you are making/refurbishing a metal plane, then pick whatever you like. As long as it won't break, you can use it


----------



## JohnMcClure

> John - it really depends on the type of plane you re building. There are different considerations for an all-wood plane vs an infill vs a metal body with wood handles etc.
> 
> For an all-wood plane, you want something ultra-stable. Planes need flat soles to serve their intended function and you don t want to have to flatten it every time you go to use it. There are lots of options. QS Oak comes to mind as readily available. But if it s an option, a nice dense, tight-grained and oily-ish exotic would be my personal preference. Any of the Rosewoods would be suitable. Purpleheart will work just fine. Lignum Vitae, Desert Ironwood, Ebony are also common selections.
> 
> Basically the same applies to infills. It needs to be very stable so the blade bed stays flat and also so the wood doesn t expand/contract and put stress on joints between the sides and the sole.
> 
> If you are making/refurbishing a metal plane, then pick whatever you like. As long as it won t break, you can use it
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks Kenny. It will be an all-wood plane, so I'll keep an eye open for some of the exotics you mentioned.


----------



## HokieKen

Another option is to use different woods John.









The you can use something "pretty" on the top and something long-wearing for the sole. I'm not sure I'd really use curly stock like this because you still want the blade bed to be flat and stable. But I might, it sure does look nice


----------



## DevinT

John. Keep an eye out for Bubinga. It is nice and hard but is easily worked and takes oils well. Rosewoods in the Dalbergia class will require acetone or denatured alcohol to dry the surfaces from natural oils before they will take an oil based finish, which may be something to consider. I would stay away from Paduak and Purple Heart only because they don't retain their color if exposed to UV. If you must use Paduak, then Tung oil works best to retain its color over time, and spar varnish can reduce the effects of outdoor exposure if the plane is brought outside. Purple Heart is really hard, but it will turn grey over time.


----------



## DevinT

I was doing some research into making my own blades, and according to Rex Kreuger I can cut O1 annealed steel as-if it were 1008 mild steel because it is still soft. If true, then I have everything I need to cut blades with the Shaper Origin. I found an 18" x 2" x 1/8" sheet of annealed O1 for $27 which I can get 4 blades out of (each the size of a Hock #BL163 or Veritas low angle block plane or Stanley 9-1/2 or WoodRiver standard/LA block planes).

However, once cut and polished, how would I harden it without a forge?


----------



## Keebler1

Just buy a forge Devin


----------



## HokieKen

Large blades from thin stock are tricky. They like to warp and any unevenness of the heat will compound the issue. Obviously, a forge makes the situation worse than an oven. You can certainly do it with a small coffee can forge or probably even two propane torches used in tandem if you only want to do the area near the cutting edge and not the whole blade. But after hardening and tempering, you have to get the (now hard) blade back to flat. Ideally this is accomplished with a surface grinder. But, it can be done by hand as well. It's just going to take a while. Personally, I think it's worth it to either just buy a blade or to send it off to have it hardened and tempered in an oven.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

First off, a forge isn't a reliable way to heat treat O1 in the thickness and size you would want with a plane blade. You need an oven/kiln.

Second, no….the origin can not cut steel especially in the thickness needed for a plane blade. Get a portaband for doing that. Everything the shaper tools people say about cutting metal with the origin they never state cutting steel and for good reason, the spindle speeds are just too much for a tiny bit even with 10 series steel. Just no….


----------



## DevinT

Hmm. OK, they don't look to be all that expensive and they run off of a standard propane tank?

Something like this?

So I guess the next question is, what are the chances of burning down the house with this? I had a neighbor with a kiln in her garage once. She had put in special flooring in the garage, but not sure if that was because of the kiln or because she just wanted something tougher than concrete.

Is it considered never safe to operate a forge indoors?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

You're burning propane and a lot of it. You can run it in your garage but I would have the door open. Even then you're blade will likely warp due to uneven heat throughout. A heat treat oven is ideal or like Kenny said, send them out for heat treat. I imagine it's not that spendy.

I think your first issue is really cutting the blade. That router isn't the answer I promise you.


----------



## DevinT

I have cut steel reliably with the Origin using an AlTiN router bit from Amana Tool running at 8k RPM, 0.11 ipm plunge speed, and 2.5 ipm feed speed, occasionally re-coating the bit with LubriCut to keep things cool. If it is true that O1 is as soft as mild steel when annealed, then I have no doubts I could cut it in the above-described manner.

How thick of steel have I cut with the Origin? 1/8" thick so far. Cut like butter.

Let me fish out some video of me cutting steel with the Origin for you


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I would like to see that. I wouldn't attempt it with my origin.


----------



## DevinT

Video (real-time): Cutting 1/8 thick mild steel bar stock with @shapertools Origin and @AMANATOOL 51604 CNC solid carbide Spiral router bit for steel with AlTiN coating, coated further with LubriCut drilling/tapping paste

Video (time-lapse): Cutting a sign for a metal band out of mild carbon steel using @shapertools Origin CNC router

I would show you the results but both products are for a secretive group that doesn't want me sharing anything about them. I had to make sure that the videos didn't reveal anything like Logo or Name.


----------



## DevinT

Here are some photos of the swarf stuck to the magnets embedded in the Shaper …










and stuck to the magnets in the plastic guard …


----------



## DevinT

The sward comes off like little shavings. Not like dust, but like hairs.


----------



## HokieKen

It sounds like you could cut it with the origin based on the 1008. The machinability rating of the two is very similar. A hacksaw and belt sander would be a lot more efficient I think though


----------



## DevinT

Except the Origin has me thinking what kind of custom shapes I can make the blade.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Well, that's definitely interesting. I don't know if I would try to cut through 1/8" steel but that sheet metal is intriguing.

Still probably something I would do on my metal mill or portaband instead of my $2500 origin kit.


----------



## DevinT

So what would I look for in my "yellow pages" for when trying to find someone that I can send blades to for hardening?


----------



## HokieKen

Heat Treat Services should be a good place to start.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Sheesh. Here you are talking about machining O-1 and I spent my morning building a hacksaw out of ash because the one I had from the hardware store wouldn't hold the blade straight enough and stiff enough to cut the piece of brass I needed to get to the right shape.

Probably should've just gone to the hardware store and bought a new hacksaw, but I got pissed off that it's just not that difficult of a problem to solve, and I've got a bunch of hardwood that will do the job of being a better hacksaw frame than I can buy.

But I'm making progress on the plane prototype. And once I get the brass shaped correctly, I can either use that in the plane, or cut a piece of mild steel to match it.


----------



## HokieKen

We can talk about a lot of things Dave. Doesn't mean anything's getting done ;-) Speaking for myself here…


----------



## DevinT

Would 1095 knife steel make a good plane blade?

I can get 6 blades out of that sheet. That's $4.15/blade. So, I called Garner Heat Treat, Inc. near me and they quoted me $85 to heat 1 lb of O1 tool steel, assuming 6 of these small plain blades amounts to about 1 lb.

Factoring that into the cost, and we're at about $18.32/blade.


----------



## DevinT

Or maybe I should just make my plane blades out of Damascus (found this billet for $39.99)


----------



## HokieKen

Roughly 3.5 cubic inches of 1095 gives you one pound Devin. So at 1/8" thick, that's roughly a 14" x 2" piece.

1095 and O1 are very similar. I've made knives from both and haven't seen any notable difference between the two. The big difference is you can buy O1 precision ground but not 1095. At least not that I know of. And flat is pretty critical for plane blades. Like I said before, it's a battle you're gonna fight in any case but starting with a truly flat bar to begin with goes a long way.


----------



## DevinT

Ken, OK, the best deal I could find on the Internet was this

I can get 2 blades out of that bar, making it $4.77/blade. Unfortunately, based on your density calculations, we're looking at about $25/blade for hardening at the one place I got a quote from.

That now puts manufacturing your own blade at about $30/blade.

I had another idea …

Go on eBay and pillage all the Stanley block plane blades which are about the same size, then either put holes in them for the Norris adjuster or (my new favorite idea) make a new adjuster that targets that blade specifically.


----------



## HokieKen

That would be my preferred tact Devin. Making blades isn't difficult but it is time consuming and to be honest, it's kinda boring and tedious after the first couple…


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I do question how fast these custom planes are flying off the shelves on these sites so definitely go about it the right way but as inexpensive as possible to feel your market. Next year I should have some Damascus block plains I plan to make a run with, all made in house Damascus but honestly I don't expect those to fly off the shelves either, especially with the time I put in and the price point they would need to be.

I do wonder how well the boutique plane makers do.


----------



## Keebler1

Dave did I read correctly you're gonna send me a Damascus plane to test for you… Lol


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Sure Keebler, you use planes all the time. You'll be a perfect tester.


----------



## DevinT

Kelley, the market that I foresee is folks like my dad that collect knives. The things he looks for in a knife simply don't exist in the plane world, which is crazy to me. Why can't I get a plane with Damascus blade? Micarta handles? Malachite knobs? Planetary gear system depth adjustments? Carbon fiber inlays?

No, our depth of conversation usually is what type of adjuster it has and we only talk of half a dozen different types. You know how many different styles there are for opening/locking a knife? Dozens upon dozens. Liner lock, frame lock, back lock, piano wire tension lock, gravity feed, automatic, spring assist, butterfly, planetary gear, wave, the list goes on and on.

With all the [plane] collectors out there and the utter lack of [fancy] options out there, it makes me sad.

That's why I wanted (want) to create a line of hand planes that are not particularly expensive but, like the knife world, each one is unique and special.

I think there is definitely a market. Kelley, I would buy a Damascus bladed hand plane from you for my father.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I see where you're going with that and as a dude who's forged several knives I get it.

I plan to make Damascus sides, wood infill or knobs/tote. I don't have the design finalized and I'm not making Damascus until the winter so I have time and there are other pressing things at the top of my list.

A Damascus blade would be cool and I might include that, it would be strong enough but Damascus wears, at least the etch does so sharpening the blade constantly would wear the etch out and make the Damascus look dull. Still thinking it through of course.


----------



## HokieKen




----------



## DevinT

My dad has asked for a Chris Reeves knife for his birthday. It's my own fault really. I gave him a William Henry one year (surprisingly, one he didn't already have that he apparently was never able to find; I just saw on the bay and snapped it up in under 30s; turned out it was super rare and I didn't know it).

I don't necessarily want to get in this habit of buying him ultra expensive knives. My plan was to make him a hand plane for his Birthday instead.

Lee Valley had to go and ruin all that. Lee Valley ruined everything.

Here's the dilemma …

Build not one hand plane, but 3. Give up adjusters? No way. Find 3 sets of adjusters? Yeah, currently not happening. I have in the works a plan to have a local manufacturer recreate the Lee Valley kit, but now we're back in the territory of maybe I should just get in the habit of buying my dad a Chris Reeves every year :'(


----------



## DevinT

Ken, that Owl!


----------



## HokieKen

The beauty and longevity of hand planes, IMHO, lies in what every designer constantly strives for - highly functional elegant simplicity. I personally don't want anything on my handplane that might break. I don't want to have to troubleshoot it if the blade slips. I want to sharpen the blade and tighten the lever cap and go back to work. Just my opinion but I think radical design iterations like Bridge City has attempted to some extent largely fall limp because the cost goes up, the reliabilty goes down, and the practical functionality remains largely unchanged - you push it across a face and it shaves wood off. If you find a new feature that increases functionality without reducing reliability and simplicity, I think you'll be on the right path.


----------



## HokieKen

> Ken, that Owl!
> 
> - DevinT


Who?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I agree with the elegant simplicity.


----------



## DevinT

Ah, but I think you aren't looking at the whole picture. Knife collectors, like my dad and I, may buy a knife because it feels unique in the hand or has a particular feel through a cut.

I don't see how hand planes would be any different. It doesn't cost hardly anything to put a stone, carbon fiber, or polymerized material onto a hand plane but it changes the way it feels in the hand and the way it transmits vibrations from the blade. With the correct combination of materials and design, you can either dampen or enhance feedback from the plane.

For me it's not about making the ultra-expensive hand plane. I would never want to make anything that sat unused, because the amount of thought I put into how it is used is far and above the amount of thought I put into how it looks. That's not to say that I would let it be ugly, but that the looks should reflect how it should function.


----------



## DevinT

For example, why has nobody taken beautiful knife scales and made a block plane before?


----------



## HokieKen

> ... With the correct combination of materials and design, you can either dampen or enhance feedback from the plane.
> 
> ...
> - DevinT


That's a good path to be on - enhanced performance without reducing reliability or simplicity 



> For example, why has nobody taken beautiful knife scales and made a block plane before?
> 
> - DevinT


Well… because a block plane isn't a knife. ;-) I don't really follow the question. If you just mean using wood that would make attractive knife scales, they have. If you mean putting scales on a block plane… I don't know.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Well, I made a hacksaw today so I could cut a piece of (almost completely unnecessary) brass to put into my plane. So that's *like* doing nothing.

But I got a new hacksaw out of the deal.


----------



## DevinT

Dave, sounds like a good deal to me.


----------



## DevinT

Ken, I meant buying knife scales on Amazon like these to sandwich the parts of a Krenov style or Veritas-kit style block plane:

Bookmatched zebrawood knife scales

Aibote Burma Burl knife scales

Or go for something out of the ordinary, like:

G10 Damascus Pattern knife scales

Or make your own with the WoodRiver Silicone Knife Scale Mold


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Ken, I meant buying knife scales on Amazon like these to sandwich the parts of a Krenov style or Veritas-kit style block plane:


Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

Prototype and final project for a previous swap, made with stabilized spalted elm offcuts from my low workbench which was one of my first big lumber purchases back when I started this hobby.


----------



## DevinT

Very nice Dave!


----------



## HokieKen




----------



## DevinT

Nice, Ken


----------



## donwilwol

I've got a bunch of knife scales. They're not stabilized, but air dried. Just pay shipping.


----------



## HokieKen

> Nice, Ken
> 
> - DevinT


To be transparent, not my planes. Just pics courtesy of google.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Wow. An incredible day of discussion happened while I was working!
I did get to the hardwood store, scored some Wenge, rosewood, and bubinga.
I already have hard maple, cherry, walnut, white oak, and another couple of mystery woods so I should be able to get something pretty made.


----------



## JohnMcClure

I saw these at the hardwood store and thought they were pretty cool:


----------



## DevinT

Wow, Cocobolo cookies? Mmmmm

EDIT: I guess more Cocobolo donuts, mmmm


----------



## jeffswildwood

Well, I cut grass today…..? Reading the last 31 comments, I usually hate it when I miss a swap. Not this time. I feel like a 1st grader trying to do calculus. Honestly, those are some remarkable planes that have been posted!


----------



## HokieKen

I'd be a lot more confident doing Calculus Jeff…

It got hotter than a dog in a hubcap factory here today so I figured it was safe to start on the summertime beers


----------



## EarlS

+1 - Jeff

Based on the picture I thought cocobola might be related to cocobolo, but maybe it was hollow rather than solid.
Keebler - here are some bandsaw pictures. I already broke the slider piece on the bottom of the fence on the first piece.


















The dust collector connectors just arrived from Rocker. In addition to the port in the front, there is one under the motor that will be hooked up to the 4" hose. I also ordered some blades so I should be set next week to start work on the roubo bench.

Here's my teaser for Kenny (swap related even though I'm not in the swap)





































Baby Bridge City plane for using on the inlay pieces, plus it is cute. One of these days I have to figure out why all the pictures look cloudy.


----------



## HokieKen

Here's a teaser…









I've pondered that little block plane on several occasions Earl. I always think the depth stops would come in handy for something but I've never been able to convince myself to pull the trigger. Maybe you can convince me


----------



## HokieKen

John - be very wary of Wenge splinters. They are notorious for getting severely infected. Never worked with it myself but I've always liked the looks of it.


----------



## EricFai

Wow, lots of comments in a few days that I missed. Spent the weekend in the city. Back to work and yard work in the evening.

Everyone talking about forging blades, getting really fancy with designs, different types of wood to use. And making hacksaws. Y'all been busy.

But you have made it some interesting reading.

Devin, FYI lacquer has a tendency to eat oils, at least from my experience. It does however cover acrillics very well.


----------



## DevinT

Eric, I went with clear enamel spray for an experiment. Spray or brush on some paint, let it dry, spray on some clear enamel, let it dry, sand down to the wood, re-pocket recessed engravings by .005", hit it with mineral spirits, let it dry, and then start adding layers of Danish Oil and finally wax. I've got one coat of paint on, and every hour for the next 4 hours I am going to add a coat. Then let it dry over night and put the enamel over it tomorrow. I noticed that the black enamel paint in an inlay stood up pretty well to the Danish Oil whereas the metallic paints not so much. That's what got me to thinking a coat of clear enamel might protect it. Otherwise I am going to have to think about engraving after finishing which always makes me super nervous.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Nice looking bandsaw and plane Earl.

I've always been fascinated by the joint maker pro and the fence system they have but after hearing Dave P's issues and the fact it's insane expensive for what it is even on sale I doubt I'll ever get one. I still am curious about it.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm kinda intrigued by the new Pencil Maker Pro. If it was priced like a gimmick, I might also be tempted by it. But I remain only intrigued…


----------



## DavePolaschek

Earl, I have that plane. Bought back long before Harvey bought BCT, and completely satisfied with it. I don't need to plane something to accurate thickness very often, but when I need to get it exactly right and perfectly square, that's the tool for the job.

The photos look like my iPhone 6 where the lens got scratched by something in my pocket, Earl. Or maybe you just need to wipe off the lens.



> I've always been fascinated by the joint maker pro and the fence system they have but after hearing Dave P's issues and the fact it's insane expensive for what it is even on sale I doubt I'll ever get one. I still am curious about it.


If someone were to make me a reasonable offer for my pile of JMP parts (I'm assured it's everything I need to make a working unit, plus the stand), I would be hard-pressed to say no. Just sayin'.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I would totally get the pencil maker but man that price is insane stupid. Worse than most of their stuff. Needs to be like 20% of the price at most.


----------



## Lazyman

Man, you guys were chatty today. I'm driving a rented cargo van full of mid-century furniture that I've restored up to my daughter in NYC so it's going to be a week before I get back to plane making.

BTW, shellac rules when it comes to restoring or refinishing vintage furniture. Easy to remove and easy to restore.


----------



## DevinT

I've been working on designing a new type of adjuster using off-the-shelf components. The crux of this new adjuster is going to be this connector:

https://midwestcontrol.com/shop/FMIL250










Pair that with a 1/4-28 threaded rod and this part, and it will actually work with any Veritas blade:

https://midwestcontrol.com/shop/S250F550-091-ZY










Here is an example of a threaded rod


Cut the threaded rod into 6" pieces.
Thread a swivel onto it
Thread the rod into the ball joint which is anchored under the blade parallel with the bed
Set the blade on the bed and seat it on the swivel stem

Presto. Depth and lateral adjustment in one with only 3 parts. Well, 4 if you put a knob on the threaded rod. This is in contrast to the traditional Norris adjuster which requires the same number of components but operates on different principals.

The biggest difference here is that I'm moving the pivot point from the top of the blade to near the bevel and instead of using a captive barrel nut as the drive engine, I am using a ball joint that can provide a more efficient drive mechanism.

The problem with the way the Norris adjuster was designed is that it basically has to employ two different threading systems on the same rod to counter-act a single turn from causing twice the descent on depth due to the fact that the rod is traversing 2 sets of threads at the same time.

My design completely eliminates the need for more than a single set of threads on the rod. It also makes the lateral adjustment more natural by requiring you to push the knob toward the side of the blade that needs to protrude further.

I think I am going to have to make a prototype very shortly. Not for this swap, but before the end of summer, certainly.


----------



## EricFai

Devin, you are very creative. I started reading the post, did not see the name of the poster. But started to think Devin wrote this one. Great job, even though I don't have much knowledge with the adjusters.


----------



## HokieKen

Wouldn't your method require that when the male piece of the ball/socket joint is rotated, that the female piece also rotate? If so, it won't. Especially when a lever cap is holding the blade with any significant pressure.

Or maybe I'm just totally missing your concept  Wouldn't be virgin territory for me…


----------



## DevinT

> Wouldn't your method require that when the mail piece of the ball/socket joint is rotated

It won't. It will be thread-locked into a threaded insert.

> that the female piece also rotate?

Male stays stationary. Female rotates.


----------



## DevinT

The ball joint is simply too long to accommodate the small (1-5/8") block plane.

It also won't work for a bench plane that uses a chip breaker because the screw that holes the chip breaker to the blade would get in the way.

So it looks like this mechanism would be best suited for a jack-sized plane with no chip breaker.

Here is a rendering of the mechanism in a frog with a 4.75" long blade (though any length blade would work really; would just need to increase the length of the threaded rod for longer blades).

Then there is still the matter of a lever cap.


----------



## donwilwol

What keeps it from twisting with the side to side movement


----------



## HokieKen

I think the female portion of the ball joint would be fixed Don. So the ball joint would effectively become a pinned pivot.

Impressive Devin. Well thought out and creative use of available hardware  I imagine it's gonna end up costing just as much as buying a norris adjuster?

It doesn't affect your design but the problem with using a constant thread direction and pitch on a norris adjuster is that it doesn't move at all, not that it moves twice as far/fast. Every rotation would move the depth slider in one direction and the rod itself in the opposite direction by the same amount.

You are assuming that moving the pivot makes the lateral more intuitive. But I'm not sure that's a "selling" point. We are all accustomed to moving it the other way with both Norris and Bailey adjusters.

The other thing that will probably annoy folks is that you will have to turn the rod left to adjust the blade deeper.

Obviously, in order to use available conponents, you don't have any control over these aspects. You're pretty stuck with what works. Just wanted to call them out sooner rather than later


----------



## donwilwol

Even if the female part is fixed, the force from the stationary blade is going to try to twist the mechanism. I'd you make the tolerances between the blade and shaft to tight it will bind and not be smooth. if you make it to loose there will be slop. there never seems to be a happy medium and wear would be terrible.


----------



## HokieKen

Ah, I'm tracking now. You're right, without that moving piece somehow being constrained to move freely up and down the axis but against rotation about the axis, you will have issues.


----------



## HokieKen

Sorry all but I'm going to have to bail on this one. Since I signed up, 4 weekends that I thought were free have been completely blacked out on the calendar. And I'm too far along on my build to "dumb it down" at this point. So I sent Dave an e-mail and told him to drop me. I hate like hell to do it but with work being what it is and all the real life happening, I just don't see being able to wrap it up by the ship date :-(


----------



## DavePolaschek

Sorry to see you go, Kenny. And now we've got one less *P*

Better to drop now than to just "ghost" and leave us holding the bag come ship-time. Plus you've got a project well on the way for a future swap.

Devin, it looks interesting. Haven't fully wrapped my brain around it enough to critique it.

No progress on the swap project yesterday. Spent a while watching the tenth of an inch of rain we got. Crazy what a difference so little rain can make.


----------



## HokieKen

I was tempted to wait until you gave me a name then decide whether to drop or just ghost y'all Dave ;-) If you'd have given me Nathan or Mos' or Grant, I'd probably just have stayed on the list and not shipped anything. But in a moment of bad judgement I decided to do the honorable thing…

I'm gonna keep plugging away at the build. If it doesn't turn out as expected, I'll mill a slot in the blade that can be used as a bottle opener and send it out in the beer swap…


----------



## GR8HUNTER

> > Wouldn t your method require that when the mail piece of the ball/socket joint is rotated
> 
> It won t. It will be thread-locked into a threaded insert.
> 
> > that the female piece also rotate?
> 
> *Male stays stationary. Female rotates.*
> 
> - DevinT


this is only thing i understand out all that talk LOL :<)))))))



> Sorry all but I m going to have to bail on this one. Since I signed up, 4 weekends that I thought were free have been completely blacked out on the calendar. And I m too far along on my build to "dumb it down" at this point. So I sent Dave an e-mail and told him to drop me. I hate like hell to do it but with work being what it is and all the real life happening, I just don t see being able to wrap it up by the ship date :-(
> 
> - HokieKen


THIS IS a very sad day as i always loved everything this Kenny guy made :<((((((((((((((((((((((

MAYBE Devin scared him away :<)))))))


----------



## DevinT

Don, I don't understand what you are saying. The force from a stationary blade is going to try and twist any assembly regardless of whether it is Bailey, Norris, or anything else. What prevents twisting is the level cap which holds everything down. Though the picture I posted does not show one, the application of a level cap should be implied.

Ken, I can order this part with any combination of threading. RH, LH, or both. But here's the really interesting bit. It cost LESS than a Norris adjuster. The entire adjuster cost less than $25 and if I buy in bulk that cost comes down even further.

Here's the math:

When it comes to Lee Valley Veritas kit, the Norris adjuster hardware consists of:

1. The threaded rod (in 2 different thread pitches/sizes; both RH threads)
2. The knurled knob that gets press-fit onto the end of the threaded rod
3. The swivel barrel with blade stem
4. Barrel nut which must be the same exact height as the swivel barrel
5. Cup for barrel nut

Now, in my design, I need fewer parts:

1. The threaded rod (fine pitch; RH threads)
2. Knurled knob that screws onto the threaded rod (or press-fit on if I have a special rod made that is not fully threaded)
3. The swivel barrel with blade stem (the Midwest Control Products ZY swivel is a bit tall on the stem; should be only 1/8" tall to be flush with the Veritas blade)
4. Ball joint assembly to allow the threaded rod to both rotate and swivel

The ball joint would be secured in the wood using a threaded insert, which would not have to be manufactured. I also didn't count the screw that is used in the Veritas kit to secure the swivel cup to the wood.

At present, if this design works, we're talking about $11.41 for the ball joint assembly, $8.12 for the ZY swivel. $0.29 for the threaded rod. Then $5.20 for WTRF-022 from S&W for the knurled knob

That's a total of $25 for one adjuster set (getting ahead of myself: that's if you only buy *one set at a time*).

Now compare that to what Lee Valley is charging for their set …

$47.50, though that includes a blade. Let's see what the blade cost by itself

That's $28.90

So we can figure that if we subtract the cost of the blade, we should get at what they are selling the Norris adjuster hardware for (if they sold it separately, ever; which is unlikely to happen):

$18.60

So that's the competition. However, it's not possible to order their kit alone.

It's not even possible to order their kit with the blade right now. They've been sold out all year and they have not replenished stock. You can't find this kit on eBay or craigslist.

So, I'm looking at right now the proposition of spending thousands of dollars to replicate this kit (the one kit I have, I have left with the manufacturer to give me a quote on how much it would be to replicate).

Though, if I were to use a different design that doesn't rely on the dual-threaded rod and differently-tapped swivels, and a specially made magnetic swivel cup, then I would not have to:

a. Wait for the manufacturer
b. Spend thousands of dollars to solve the supply-chain problem

I can almost guarantee that Holtey does not have this problem because he manufactures his own parts for his adjuster.

If I were to try and do a Holtey style Norris adjuster, then it would cost me even more to get around this supply issue.

However, I think we may be onto something here with the parts I found because there is a steep discount for bulk ordering.

If I order 10 sets of the adjuster I designed:


Ball joint assembly drops to $2.90/ea
ZY swivel drops to $2.42/ea

I don't know what the knurled knob price would be at quantity of 10, so we'll just assume it is the same.

That brings the cost of each adjuster down to $10.81 or less. Now we're able to beat the Veritas adjuster.

As for the cost of the blade, the lowest I have been able to get so far is about $4.72/blade by cutting the steel myself, but that does not include the cost of hardening. That cost me about $20/blade which makes the cost of the blade (O1 steel) about the same (a few dollars cheaper) than an O1 Veritas blade.


----------



## HokieKen

There ya go then Devin  Definitely worth a prototype to see how it works. If you can do it with LH threads, I think I would. It's just more intuitive to rotate right to move the blade deeper IMO. It wouldn't take but a second to hold the swivel stem against a grinder to shorten it so it doesn't stick up. If you could find a swivel with a larger diameter base, it would go a long way to preventing the twist that Don pointed out I think. It's certainly a viable concept to my eyes.


----------



## Mosquito

lol Kenny, you can just send it to me anyway, to get that "plane swap" experience


----------



## DevinT

Ken, could you help me find the "Goldilocks" part?

Here is the entire list of all their ball joints

There is a filter on the left for easily picking LH vs RH. There is a mass of thread pitch options as well (too many to list). I kind of feel like I stumbled onto Shangri-La with this manufacturer.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't see it as an option Devin. The only way I see it with LH threads is with the 90 degree joint.


----------



## DevinT

Hmm. A 90 degree joint might actually work. I could seat the stud perpendicular to the blade which would present the housing parallel to the blade.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree Devin. It would be easier to install your threaded insert that way.


----------



## DevinT

However, the problem with the one that you found is that the stud is the part that can rotate freely whereas we need the ball attached to the housing so it can freely rotate. None of the female LH couplers have a housing that can freely rotate along the Z axis, which is required to travel the captive swivel down the rod.

So it would appear as though none of the LH options will work.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> I was tempted to wait until you gave me a name then decide whether to drop or just ghost y'all Dave ;-) If you'd have given me Nathan or Mos' or Grant, I'd probably just have stayed on the list and not shipped anything. But in a moment of bad judgement I decided to do the honorable thing…


Oh, I'm still going to send you a name, Kenny. It's just now, nobody is going to get yours. ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Nope, I think you're right Devin. I don't see anything that will work. Oh well, RH threads aren't a deal breaker. I know at least early Stanley types had RH threads on the depth adjuster so you had to turn CCW to move the blade deeper.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> THIS IS a very sad day as i always loved everything this Kenny guy made :<((((((((((((((((((((((
> 
> MAYBE Devin scared him away :<)))))))
> 
> - GR8HUNTER


That's just 'cause I don't post the crap Tony. Don't mean it ain't there ;-) And I ain't skeered of Devin. She's all the way on the other coast ;-)


----------



## DevinT

And if the mechanism really works, I think we could then-considering that this adjuster uses fewer parts than a Norris adjuster-have a special rod manufactured that has RH threads at one end (like a linkage rod), LH threads in the center, and either no threads on the knob end for a press-fit knob, or RH threads for a knob tap. Manufacturing a specially threaded rod, if it's the only thing you have to manufacture, is pretty cheap and easy. Less setup involved as far as CNC and G-code goes (probably not even required; can just use the old cam based lathes for that).


----------



## EarlS

Trying to read thru all of this make me realize that this is probably the way most engineers sound to normal people - confounding, confusing, and complicated.


----------



## DevinT

I theorize that Ken bowed-out because he ran into a problem I suspect I might have. He might have created something so nice that he doesn't want to part with it.


----------



## HokieKen

LOL. Nope, I've been making two in parallel anyway ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

What would have been my plane and the swap plane will now be my plane and my other plane where I fix the stuff I don't like with my first plane…


----------



## JohnMcClure

Sorry to see Kenny go.
But it's important that he told us before ghosting!
There's a name in the participants list that,I don't think I've seen any posts from for several weeks - are you still here?
Not to step on Dave's toes or anything!


----------



## drsurfrat

give Kenny my name  . I have all the planes i need, but would love to have one with his level of detail and finishing touches.


----------



## DevinT

> I m in.
> 
> - MakerofSawdust


He's a man of many words.


----------



## DevinT

Ken, what kind of steel is that?


----------



## bndawgs

I highly doubt Kenny would ghost anyone. Afterall, there aren't very many places where he can post pictures of himself in a squirrel cape


----------



## HokieKen

Well Devin… I'm not real sure. It was labeled G2. But that's not a common steel and I have never bought any. Not sure where the hell I got it. But, G2 is a stainless blade steel that's hardenable and that's kinda how it machines. Like a major PITA. Whatever it is, it should be ideal for plane soles. It's also the last time I'll be using it…


----------



## donwilwol

> Don, I don t understand what you are saying. The force from a stationary blade is going to try and twist any assembly regardless of whether it is Bailey, Norris, or anything else. What prevents twisting is the level cap which holds everything down. Though the picture I posted does not show one, the application of a level cap should be implied.
> 
> - DevinT


Holding down won't prevent twist, it will only prevent the twist from raising the blade and will make the binding worse.


----------



## DevinT

Don, the force you are describing seems to be in play on my Veritas planes that use a Norris adjuster all the same. Am I wrong in this observation?


----------



## donwilwol

> Don, the force you are describing seems to be in play on my Veritas planes that use a Norris adjuster all the same. Am I wrong in this observation?
> 
> - DevinT


Yes, but veritas uses a pivot which controls the twist


----------



## DevinT

Don, can you not see that my design also has a pivot? The rod will be constricted to movement on the X and Z axes because the blade is seated on the stem and the cap pushes down preventing lift which means that there can be zero deviation from the pivot point on the Y axis which in-turn means that one can never draw an arc about the ball joint that does not pass directly through the center. It is therefore not possible to generate the twist you are talking about.

The Norris adjuster actually works the same way. The blade seats on the barrel with the stem in the hole, the lever cap pushes down on the blade which I prevents Y-movement (pivot rising out of the cup).


----------



## DevinT

So long as the swivel is bedded it cannot twist anyway. The flat bottom of the barrel cannot turn on the Z axis when sitting atop a flat surface


----------



## donwilwol

> So long as the swivel is bedded it cannot twist anyway. The flat bottom of the barrel cannot turn on the Z axis when sitting atop a flat surface
> 
> - DevinT


The theory is correct, and if you substantially shorten the distance from the pivot to the barrel it should work (like the veritas and norris). I believe you will need some pretty hefty material to take the forces at the measurements you have with a cap tight enough to hold everything in place. I'll be interested to know how it works. Its the primary complaint of these style adjusters. The forces cause wear quicker than others.


----------



## HokieKen

I think Don is hitting on the primary design reason to have the pivot intermediate between the adjuster piece and the knob where you apply force. The shorter the distance is between the pivot and the adjuster, the less likely it is to cause a bending moment on the threaded rod.

Another consideration for adjusters in wooden planes is the tendency of the pivot piece to wallow out the wood due to the same forces. I think Devin's design handles that better because those forces will be tranferred to the ball joint and the threaded insert which should handle the forces better.

The bending moment on the other hand is compounded by putting the pivot on the other end opposite the knob with the adjuster piece intermediate. I think 1/4" threaded rod can probably take it without taking a permanent bend though. One way to find out


----------



## DevinT

I will admit that I had not truly appreciated that the pivot point on the Norris adjuster is doing double-duty. It is acting both as a lateral pivot (obvious) but also as a fulcrum to decrease the amount of force that needs to be applied to the lever (rod) at the knob.

Don I think pointed it out with respect to the amount of force required to laterally adjust the blade when it is under pressure from the lever cap.

This may not be a deal breaker if you consider the finger-pinch method. Instead of simply trying to push the knob in one direction or the other, you place a thumb on the blade and your fore-finger on the adjuster knob and pinch.

That method won't actually work with my adjuster without the fulcrum. However, you could place a thumb on the side of the plane and pinch that way.


----------



## JohnMcClure

What do you think looks better: solid rosewood, solid wenge, or a sammich of the two?
For the body of an all-wood plane


----------



## DevinT

Sandwich, for sure.


----------



## DevinT

Running more tests before committing to the prototype


----------



## HokieKen

I personally prefer solid Rosewood John. I'm not a huge fan of laminated sandwiches like that for some reason. It depends on the plane design to some extent though.


----------



## MikeB_UK

John

You're on a which supermodel looks best vibe there, down to personal choice ;-)

Rosewood has a better feel, for me at least, wenge has a bad rep for toxic splinters - only used it once, didn't have an issue, but the final product didn't feel as, err, refined?, as it should, looks awesome though, so you're into trade-off territory as always.

I'd go with sandwich, rosewood as the bread. (and procrastinate and then pick something more contrasting as the jam)


----------



## DavePolaschek

> There's a name in the participants list that,I don't think I've seen any posts from for several weeks - are you still here?
> Not to step on Dave's toes or anything!


MakerOfSawdust has been silent other than his one post saying he was in. I have a bet going with myself over whether I will get a progress photo or not. But I didn't include the "you must participate" clause in the first post, so I'm not going to try and enforce it after the fact.

As for my toes, I got steel toed (actually some high tech composite) boots. Not to worry.


----------



## donwilwol

> .
> 
> This may not be a deal breaker if you consider the finger-pinch method. Instead of simply trying to push the knob in one direction or the other, you place a thumb on the blade and your fore-finger on the adjuster knob and pinch.
> 
> That method won t actually work with my adjuster without the fulcrum. However, you could place a thumb on the side of the plane and pinch that way.
> 
> - DevinT


With the thumb method, (which I typically use most of the time ) why do you need the adjustment at all?


----------



## donwilwol

> What do you think looks better: solid rosewood, solid wenge, or a sammich of the two?
> For the body of an all-wood plane
> 
> - JohnMcClure


Wenge for sure. Rosewood is to cliche. I have a 6.5×55 I made a stock for out of wenge. Love the stuff


----------



## DevinT

Don, I'm not familiar with the method you are referring to.


----------



## DevinT

John, I wouldn't make a solid Wenge plane. Wenge, which I have worked with, as MikeB pointed out, feels rougher than most woods when finished, despite getting all the same treatments.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Oh man I've gotten some conflicting advice! Sandwich, don't sandwich, wenge, not wenge… lol we'll see!


----------



## HokieKen

I'm unfamiliar with either "thumb method". I use my thumb on Bailey pattern lateral levers. That's about it.


----------



## Keebler1

The thumb method for usually happens when I miss with the hammer and hit my thumb instead just before a few choice words are hollered out


----------



## EricFai

John, you could use the wenge as a highlight with the rosewood. It does splinter at times, and I have also read about the toxic splinters if the wenge.

Dave, did I miss a prerequisite of being an engineer to participate in this swap? I am still in though.


----------



## DevinT

I turned my last failure into a success. Changed out my choice of paint for another and started using clear enamel as a protecting coat before I sand and apply finish. The clear coat enamel stands up to acetone and other thinning agents found in common finishes like Danish Oil and wipe-on poly. The restyles are astonishing after just 2 coats of paint, 1 coat of clear, and multiple coats of DO. I have a good picture of how the plain is going to come out and how many days it will take to finish once assembled.

Now I just have two experiments to perform before I start cutting and assembling the prototype.

Oh, forgot, I also have to resaw some lumber (by hand) and do some dimensioning (by hand). That will be fun.


----------



## DevinT

Eric, I don't think anyone has to be an engineer to participate. Sorry if I am being too technical in my discussions. I am challenging myself to see how fast I can actually build this thing, once I have all the design aspects tested in real-life. After each test, I go back to the computer and alter the instructions that I load up into the Shaper Origin each time. If I have engineered this all correctly, I will be able to sit down at the Origin and cut all the parts in an afternoon, assemble them and let the glue dry over night, paint the next day, coat the next, and add finish over the next 3 days. I expect the whole thing should take less than a week.

I am pretty sure that if I wasn't using a Shaper it would still take the same amount of time, but each one might come a little differently. The Shaper also allows me to put features in that would otherwise be difficult or impossible to replicate by hand.

Therein lies my doom. I put some features in that require some heavy engineering. However, none of that is required to make a working plane.


----------



## EricFai

Thank Devin, you're fine. But I do have to admit, I've gotten lost on a few of those descriptions. The proto type I did, the chip well and blade backing was cut out of the block. I did use a horizontal drill press with a fostner bit then cleaned up with a chisel.

The block for the swap is out in the shop along with a few other extoic woods, that I am planning on using for this.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Dave, did I miss a prerequisite of being an engineer to participate in this swap? I am still in though.


Nope, Eric. Heck, I'm not an engineer. I was a computer scientist (no degree, so they couldn't call me an engineer), and was always pissed they wouldn't give me a lab coat to go with the title.

I did get a red Swingline stapler as a retirement gift though, so that's something.


----------



## DevinT

I too am a software engineer without a degree, though I have held the title of Engineer at work in the past, usually it is just "Administrator," or "Specialist." Most places want that paper, though I haven't noticed much of a limit in compensation despite the limit on titles.


----------



## DevinT

I tried an embedment nut in Black Walnut by boring a hole .01" smaller than the nut. It went in with a couple taps of a shoemakers hammer. I threw some wood glue around the knurls and will test it's strength tomorrow. If it is too loose, I am going to try .0125" smaller than the nut (.015" smaller works but is so tight that the nut shows some slight marring from pounding it into the hole).


----------



## DevinT

That's an M5×6mm length with an M5×6mm embedment nut with an OD of .275" and I am boring a .265" diameter hole in Black Walnut. I suspect something more exotic that is harder and denser like Bocote or Bubinga to also accept the nut with a .265" hole and provide even better grab, perhaps not even needing wood glue.


----------



## DevinT

I tried counter-sinking the hole at first thinking it would make it easier to press in, but it didn't. I found the best way to insert them is to grab the knurls with a pair of needle-nose pliers so you can center it over the hole and then give it a good whack with your smallest hammer.


----------



## Keebler1

Devin the first rule when grabbing a hammer is grab your biggest first. Second rule is if it didn't work the first time get a bigger hammer.


----------



## EarlS

Have you tried the threaded insert nuts?


----------



## HokieKen

They're a little salty for my taste Earl.


----------



## bndawgs

Are they made of corn?


----------



## donwilwol

> I too am a software engineer without a degree, though I have held the title of Engineer at work in the past, usually it is just "Administrator," or "Specialist." Most places want that paper, though I haven't noticed much of a limit in compensation despite the limit on titles.
> 
> - DevinT


I got my degree after a few years working as an engineer/consultant. I tested out of the max credits allowed. The degree just allowed me to teach, which looks good on a resume. I believe the degree opens more doors, which definitely will affect your total income.


----------



## DevinT

Don, I wrote the boot loader for the FreeBSD operating system as well as the installer, several parts of the userland and I am one of only a few developers that maintain DTrace in the kernel. Many people have told me that a degree would be a waste of time. Before COVID-19, I flew all around the world teaching others and giving presentations. My last presentation was at the Intel headquarters in Sunnyvale, CA. Among other things, I demonstrated a vulnerability that allowed you to steal cleartext passwords from nearly every program on a system using DTrace and predictive analysis.

If that were not enough, I also am a mathematician and hold second place for World's fastest math algorithm for calculating binomial coefficients and enumerating combinatoric distributions (2nd only to Donald Knuth by a slim margin).

My goal in life is to get rich, quit my job, go back to school, get a PhD, and go become a nutty professor at a 4-year university.

Not sure if it will turn out that way, but that has been the goal. However, it is looking more and more like I might just forego the degree and just get accredited and teach High School. I always had a huge amount of respect and admiration for those High School teachers that didn't need the money and were there because they wanted to teach, AND had spent a life in their careers before teaching.


----------



## HokieKen

Y'all are such nerds. ;-)


----------



## DevinT

EarlS, threaded insert nuts don't come that small (or so I initially thought; more on that below).

These are set screws for keeping the blade aligned in the plane. Lee Valley puts FH M5×5 set screws in the sides of their metal bodied planes. With a simple flathead screwdriver, you can project the set screw on either side of the blade to "lock" the lateral adjustment, allowing you to quickly achieve the same (or very close) angle after pulling the blade out and re-inserting it.

I have heard numerous times, including from Matt Estlea, that these little set screws are one feature that folks wish Lie-Nielsen had. That they make working with the Veritas a bit nicer when you have to swap blades or take the blade out for any reason.

I thought I would try and replicate them, and as far as I know, there are no threaded inserts for an M5 set screw.

Of course, I have been wrong in the past, and … it looks like I am again.

A quick search on Amazon for "M5 threaded insert" actually yielded something. Of course, how would I have known to search for M5?

I bought a kit containing M2 thru M8 set screws and a corresponding kit of embedment nuts to match.

You see, I didn't actually know what size of set screw would be the correct choice, and I know that they don't make an M2 threaded insert. So going with a box of variously sized embedment nuts basically guaranteed that I would find a match whereas trying to use a threaded insert might have resulted in failure if the screw is smaller than M5.

Actually, to be honest, when I pulled the set screw out of the Veritas, it proved to be a tiny fraction smaller than M5. It is most assuredly not a metric part in the Veritas. An M5 screw was pretty tight in the hole and I didn't want to force it in, which might make the fit for the factory screw looser.

I actually like the look of the embedment nut in wood. I was doing some prelim tests last night just after a few hours of glue drying and it seemed to be holding really well.

I have threaded inserts going into the plane for depth stops and a fence, but I think I will use these embedment nuts for the blade set screws.


----------



## HokieKen

The knurled embedment nuts will work fine for the set screws since there is no significant force on them. I can't say for sure without checking (which I can do tonight when I get home if you need me to) but I imagine the Veritas set screws are 10-32 if they're slightly smaller than an M5.

I only have one Veritas bench plane, a low-angle jack, but I have to agree that the set screws are definitely a good add. Technically, it should take 3 points to define the lateral angle of the blade but two seems to work quite well so I won't scold them ;-) But, fettling my LAJ is far faster than any of my Bailey pattern planes after sharpening. Just another of those small things that makes the Veritas price tag sting a bit less…


----------



## HokieKen

One other thought Devin. I don't know how your plane is constructed but, ideally the embedment nuts would be inserted from the inside with a smaller clearance hole just slightly larger than the screw on the outside. That way the force the screw exerts on the nut would serve to embed it deeper rather than tend to push it out of the hole. But, I don't really think it's an issue either way just using set screws as positioning guides since axial forces are minimal.


----------



## DevinT

Thanks, Ken.

#10-32 would make the most sense. Those Canadians love their #10-32's


----------



## HokieKen

Surprising Devin. Since Canada is a metric country. But I am glad Veritas uses SAE hardware )


----------



## DevinT

Ken, the embedment nut will be inserted as you describe. Apologies if the photo did not lend this impression.

I might also point out that by using a nut slightly shorter than the full width of the cheek, I have a nice little oversized hole to drop the set screw in before I get it threaded. This means I am not dropping it on the floor every time I go to thread them in the nut


----------



## DevinT

I am not proud of it, but the plane will be 99% SAE except the set screws which will be metric. I know, blasphemy!


----------



## EarlS

Devin - As I recall, you can only use metric tools on metric wood unless you provide a conversion kit…... ;+)


----------



## DevinT

Oh, so if I make a plane that is only part metric, then it can work on both kinds of wood, right?


----------



## HokieKen

Actually Devin, in CA it doesn't matter whether it's metric or SAE. Both are known to the state of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm…


----------



## donwilwol

> Actually Devin, in CA it doesn t matter whether it s metric or SAE. Both are known to the state of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm…
> 
> - HokieKen


The only thing safe in CA is the tax bill. Feel free to open that, it's cancer free.


----------



## DevinT

Swap questions:


Separately (but permanent) attached sole required or optional? (the Veritas kit does not instruct you to construct a sole)
How wide are folks setting their mouths on their smoothers? Is a 10-thou gap in front of the lowered blade enough to allow a shaving through?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Depends on the plane you're making, Devin. I wouldn't say it's strictly necessary.

My primary smoother has about 1/8" in front of the blade, but it'll tear out pretty good if I'm trying to plane pine the wrong direction. So I don't do that.

In almost every case, the plane should be usable. But skill levels vary, and I won't feel bad if I get a plane that needs some fettling after I receive it from someone who's fairly new to this.


----------



## DevinT

I figured I would cut the mouth in the initial construction to be positioned 10-thou in front of the blade. If it won't pull a shaving, I'll just take a file to the mouth until it does and then go update my schematics so the next one will be cut to the proper width in the manufacturing process, pre-assembly.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't think a separate sole is imperative at all unless you're using some kind of wood that just won't wear well or is highly unstable. I don't think there's anything wrong with it either. I say whatever works best with your design.

The mouth is highly dependent on pitch, bevel-up vs bevel-down, and whether or not there is a chipbreaker. If making a wood plane, I'd start with it as tight as you can make it then open it up once you can see how the chip behaves in use.


----------



## DevinT

I actually digitally modeled the exact dimensions of the blade, the bed angle, and the entire plane in software.

The gap pictured in front of the blade is 10-thou. You're not the only one that suggests snugging it up as far as it will go-Veritas actually says to do this in the instruction plans for building the plane. You then take a file and open the mouth up manually.

However, having a Shaper Origin, I can cut the mouth accurately to within a half-thou saving me a step.

Since I am making a smoother, I don't believe anyone would ever want to take a 1/16" shaving, or even a 1/32" shaving for that matter (e.g., in the case of a scrub plane with heavy camber). So I know that I don't need even a 1/32" in front of the blade. However, I know that I need more than the width of the shaving, the question is how much and what is the general range of shavings coming off a smoother.

Usually I mic my shavings at around 2-3 thou with a dull blade, so I know I need to leave enough room for that, and possibly larger (6-thou?).


----------



## DevinT

The blade is projecting out of the mouth by 3-thou and is 10-thou from the edge of the mouth


----------



## HokieKen

How the chip behaves weighs in too Devin. If it rolls back over immediately in a tight spiral, you may clog your .010" mouth almost immediately even if your shavings are only .0005" thick. Personally, I prefer a chipbreaker to control the shaving but it can certainly be done without one too. The angle the front of mouth is cut at can have a big effect too. It can either curve the shaving back into the mouth, force it up to eject it, or somewhere in between.

For such simple tools, the fine details can get quite complex


----------



## DevinT

So, what I hear you saying is that 10-thou is definitely not too small.

I definitely don't want to be in the position where my initial dimensions leave the mouth open too wide, because obviously I can't put material back onto the plane once removed.

I am fine having to adjust the mouth with a file.

However, one of the first things I did was go around measuring all the mouths on my hand planes. My Veritas apron plane (bevel-up, low-angle) and my Stanley No 8 (bevel-down, standard 45) both surprised me with very tight mouths with minimal clearance for a shaving.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I'll agree with Kenny on this one, the opening being small is great but it's manageable if it's a bit wider hence the opening on a standard Bailey pattern so controlling the shaving after the fact will be key me thinks. A chip breakers job in life.


----------



## DevinT

I know all about chip breakers.

However, the kit doesn't have one.

I can always just send the kit back and start over losing weeks of time and effort already put into the above kit.

I won't be doing that, however.


----------



## HokieKen

> So, what I hear you saying is that 10-thou is definitely not too small.
> 
> ...
> 
> - DevinT


Nope, I never said that. I certainly think that's more than tight enough but I don't know for sure so you can't hold me to it later ;-p


----------



## HokieKen

> I know all about chip breakers.
> 
> However, the kit doesn t have one.
> 
> I can always just send the kit back and start over losing weeks of time and effort already put into the above kit.
> 
> I won t be doing that, however.
> 
> - DevinT


Not at all necessary. There are many highly functional smoothers out there without a chipbreaker. I just think a chipbreaker is easier to adjust than trying to get the mouth just right. Doesn't mean a chipbreaker is better, just different.


----------



## clieb91

Wow, I have really not been i the swing of it. It has been 26 days since I have looked at this, too much happenin I suppose. I am not going to even try to catch up on the 620 posts that I missed.

Keebler, I did however wind up with your post on the top of my threads when I logged in. Though looks like I missed the deadline. Thanks for the thought though.

I will try to pay more attention.

CtL


----------



## DevinT

My neighbor shared with me a similar story about making a sign and having trouble with the thinning agents in store-bought clear-coat and store-bought Danish Oil causing the paint to run.

I shared my solution, which was to use a different paint, and he shared with me his solution of making his own Danish Oil. But here's where it gets interesting …

We know the thinner in Watco is too strong for some paints. We also know that mineral spirits is harmless to dried paints. However, there's been an issue with locating the real (read: clear) mineral spirits that comes in a can versus that white milky stuff that comes in a plastic quart.

ASIDE: You know, ... California.

My neighbor just happened to acquire some of the real stuff from OSH 3 blocks from our house just 10 minutes before I started talking to him. What?!

Yes, and he just mixes his own Danish Oil with BLO, the real mineral spirits, and poly.

I'm about to run-almost literally-over to OSH to pick up a can before they go extinct.


----------



## DavePolaschek

So the plan A plane may be encountering a rough patch. Carved some wood for the plane this morning, and discovered I may not know what the hell I'm doing. This weekend should tell, if I can get some time in the shop. But the neighborhood "yard waste" dumpster showed up today, and my sweetie wants to "limb up" one of our junipers tomorrow.

Spent the afternoon carving on a piece of ash that's the third carved bird off my knife, while waiting for the tung oil on the piece of elm that is carved birb #2 to cure. Then the UPS guy showed up with a case of wine. Seems that put an end to the productivity for the day.

Hope all of your planes are going better than mine is at the moment.


----------



## JohnMcClure

I may make progress this weekend. I don't recall if I mentioned it here but we're having baby #4, and my wife is due today. So I may not make swap progress this weekend!


----------



## DevinT

Congrats John. Right behind you with a baby due in just 88 days.


----------



## GR8HUNTER

*GRATZ John :<)))))))))))))))))))))*


----------



## DevinT

The heavens parted and a single ray of light shot through the clouds and shone upon the vessel that so-delighted her …

A Shelton magically appeared ...

This plane just did me a solid and proved that my novel approach to an adjuster not only will work, but that a similar adjuster found in this Shelton had a very simple solution to the problem.










Simply put a tag in the box that whacks users over the head to lessen the pressure before adjusting the blade.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't know a thing about Shelton planes but from the pics it looks like it may function similarly to the Gage plane mechanism?

I've never had my hands on an "auto-set" mechanism by any maker. Seems to me it's just a simple tradeoff between using a lateral adjuster and getting the block set so it's dead square to the blade edge. Then if you can keep the edge square to the block every time you sharpen, it might be a time-saver. Otherwise, it seems like a lateral adjuster would be easier to fettle.


----------



## donwilwol

I've got one. Want it?


----------



## EricFai

Congratulations John. Great timing right around Mother's Day


----------



## Keebler1

Congrats John


----------



## HokieKen

> I ve got one. Want it?
> 
> - Don W


I actually wouldn't mind having one just to reverse engineer and play with Don  I can send it back when I'm done if you want it back or I can pass it on.


----------



## DevinT

Don, how much?


----------



## DevinT

While the kit is still at the manufacturers, I took the opportunity to hop on over to OSH to pick up some brass rod for a fit-test for the cross-pin. They were all sold out of 1/4" brass rod, but they did have a length of 1/4" brass tubing that we put calipers to in the store and it came out to approximately 1/4" so I went for it.

Got the tubing home and put my digital calipers to it and it came out exactly 0.2500" which made me happy (before I sent the kit to the manufacturer, I hit the brass rod with the calipers and the one that comes with the kit also read exactly 0.2500"). So I knew the tubing would be a good stand-in for the fit-test until the rods come back.

While I was at OSH, I also picked up some real mineral spirits (which they had only 2 cans left). Glad to have some on-hand for mixing my own custom blend of Danish Oil.

For the fit test, I loaded-up the Shaper Origin with the SVG's representing the plane design and hit the cross-pin hole with a 1/8" diameter bit using a helical plunge pattern, first with 0.005" offset and then with 0" offset. I took the 1/4" brass tubing to the black walnut I did this in and I was surprised. I was expecting an interference fit and to have to widen the hole by 0.001" increments until I got the desired fit. However, the Shaper Origin was so accurate at attaining a perfect 0.2500" ID that the brass rod made the fit. It was snug but not too snug. Pretty much perfect for the cross pin in every way.

Well, that made my day easy. I've now nailed-down every one of the ~24 measurements required to finally move on to making the functional prototype.

There is nothing more to test. I've tested all the insert fits, alignment patterns, paint, finish, embellishments, and design aspects all separately but not as a whole.

The time is almost upon me to start milling the black walnut I selected for prototype material. Once that is all glued up, then I need to get that experimental router bit from Canada to finish up the assembled prototype.

If all goes well with my plan A prototype, then it will be time to go buy the exotic wood and do it all over again.


----------



## DevinT

On a side note, while I am unlikely to ever part with the digital files that I feed to the CNC for this plane, I came up with an interesting idea.

My design departs from Krenov and has some unique characteristics with respect to how it is made, the design, and the amount of pieces involved (a Krenov plane is 4 pieces; I have a hard time finding exotic wood in block sizes large enough for the core of the plane, so I created a way of accurately laminating multiple pieces after they have been cut; I'm not the first one to use alignment holes, but I am probably the first to use them in this way-details after the reveal in June).

I also know that not everybody has a Shaper Origin, and so I was thinking how my plane could be made without one.

I can use my Origin to cut templates out of 1/4" plexiglass and then you won't need CNC to make the plane. Of course, there are going to be aspects that you will need to shape by hand (like the knob) if you don't have CNC, but that could be part of the appeal.


----------



## DevinT

This arrived yesterday, which is going to make resawing and thicknessing more accurate, both of which I do by hand currently.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Devin, I think you will like my approach to planemaking. I haven't discussed it here much, and it's not as deeply thought as yours, but there will be CNC involved.
I appreciate seeing you be so deeply invested in the subject! And with your background, you have a lot to contribute. 
I'm an engineer too - it really is interesting, and probably not coincidental, that like 80-90% of swappers are engineers (degreed or defacto, irrelevant imo).


----------



## Keebler1

I used to want to ring engineers necks when I had to try and get to some bolts or filters to fix things when I was working on cars. They put some of the stuff in the tightest places


----------



## Woodmaster1

I used to teach pre-engineering to high school students does that count. I had several students go on to be engineers. I am sure they no more than I ever will.



> Devin, I think you will like my approach to planemaking. I haven t discussed it here much, and it s not as deeply thought as yours, but there will be CNC involved.
> I appreciate seeing you be so deeply invested in the subject! And with your background, you have a lot to contribute.
> I m an engineer too - it really is interesting, and probably not coincidental, that like 80-90% of swappers are engineers (degreed or defacto, irrelevant imo).
> 
> - JohnMcClure


----------



## DavePolaschek

Happy May! Two weeks to progress pictures if you haven't already sent one!

Zero shop time for me today. We limbed up one of our junipers, hauled the brush to the community dumpster, made a pot of soup, and split a bottle of wine with a couple neighbors. I think tomorrow is going to be the day when I decide if plan A will fly or not.

John, hope everything, erm, comes out okay.


----------



## EarlS

Devin - I'm a big fan of digital gauges. They are a lot easier to read than dial gauges as the eyes get older.


----------



## Lazyman

For woodworking, my go to gauge is my mechanical fractional dial caliper. It is so much easier than trying to figure out whether a 3 or 4 decimal fraction is close enough to the target fraction visually than using my brain. I tried a digital gauge that displays fractions but it still requires my brain to decide what usable fraction 57/128ths is closer to so it is kind of worthless to use. The other nice thing about the mechanical one is that once you zero it, it is always zero and I never have to remember to set zero, much less turn it on and off.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Note that if you're shopping for the Starrett that Nathan points to, there's a similar caliper from igaging that costs less than the case for the Starrett does. And which comes with a case. Plus, the Starrett is made in China, alas.


----------



## DevinT

The Fast-Cal digital calipers from iGaging have a round-to-the-nearest-32nd fraction mode with auto shutoff and automatic position registration (no need to zero it before turning it on; you can move it while off and when you turn it on it will read the correct value to you).

Really great calipers.


----------



## Lazyman

Mine are actually the cheaper Shop Fox ones. They work great. I just could not find a picture online that showed it's face.

32nds is better than the 128ths and 64ths but I think that I would want a round to 1/16th mode. When I need a finer degree of precision, I'd probably switch to decimal.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I need calipers which will correct for my brain damage. Ordered some saw nuts for a saw I'm refurbishing. Measured their diameter, then ordered a drill bit to make the appropriate holes. The saw nuts are 3/16" diameter, so of course the drill bit I ordered was 3/32". Back to Amazon this morning…


----------



## HokieKen

Just drill it twice Dave.


----------



## JohnMcClure

No shop progress today. Different kind of progress:


----------



## EricFai

Cute little guy


----------



## HokieKen

Congrats John!


----------



## DevinT

Congratulations, John


----------



## DavePolaschek

Congrats, John!


----------



## jeffswildwood

Congrats John!

My Son found this tree during an adventure. The problem is it's in a place I better not take a chain saw.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Congrats John!


----------



## JohnMcClure

Thanks everyone!


----------



## GR8HUNTER

GRATZ JOHN DEAN'S A CUTIE PIE :<)))))))))))


----------



## Lazyman

Great picture John. Congratulations. Now get some sleep while you can.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> No shop progress today. Different kind of progress: - JohnMcClure


Congratulations!

I am impressed. 
You must be master Zen wood worker to teach your unborn kid to make his own wooden name plaque while in womb. Did spouse notice any power tool sounds, or was he trained to use hand tools. :-(0)
Plaque is bigger than his head, that must of hurt during delivery. Did he say what his next project would be?
ROFL

Best Luck sleeping.


----------



## Keebler1

Congrats John guess it's a good thing beer swap is next you're really gonna need the extra beer.


----------



## DevinT

I spent all day working on the plane. Resawed a black walnut board tin half for the prototype and made it about half way through cutting a new riser for my thicknessing sled before I had to pack it in for the night.


----------



## EarlS

Congratulations John!!! How long until you have him out in the shop learning woodworking?

Counting down the hours until the folks arrive (and the lathe!!). While I wait, I'm going to start cleaning up the walnut I picked last week. It's really rough, but I should be able to get enough usable boards to make the cabinet that will go under the roubo bench once it is built.


----------



## HokieKen

I think the Origins are extremely cool Devin. But anytime I give CNC for wood any serious consideration, I end up coming back around to a traditional setup and it's primarily because I think the tradeoff is worth it to be able to let it be running while I'm doing something else. Of course, on the other hand, you can put the Origin on a shelf when you're done using it and there's no permanent footprint in the shop and you're virtually unlimited on the size of the work. So the Origin has some big advantages too 

I'm curious how you do your resawing? Resawing and ripping large boards are two places I draw pretty hard lines when it comes to hand tool work. I enjoy the silence and focus of using hand tools but sometimes it's worth it to make some noise…


----------



## HokieKen

John - I just noticed Dean's weight. I was also 8 lbs 8 oz when I was born  I was also born at 8:28 pm on August 8.

I bet you tried to get your wife to hang on for 2 more days and name him Luke, didn't you? ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Earl, I've been super curious about this lathe since you first posted about it. Which I think has been a couple of years now? Pics are definitely required ASAP.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Got a little shop time yesterday. Three bookcases got planed smooth and got their first coat of shellac. The fourth is back in clamps, with a crack that opened up in it being glued shut. This is only the third crack I've had open in 60 cases, so I guess I'm not doing too bad. It's the first one that didn't open while I was cutting dovetails or rabbets, though, and only opened up when I removed the clamps after the glue-up. Frustrating.

I've also been cleaning the dead and down tree cholla out of our yard. I've posted a swap thread if anyone is interested in swapping for a box of it.


----------



## GrantA

Wowza 211 replies since I last visited. 
*Congratulations John!*

Devin, I skimmed over some of your posts and I need some ibuprofen now. I tip my hat to your efforts and will be anxiously watching to see what you come up with. I guess if you watched me on my manual mill and lathe you might have a headache too haha
Oh as for your resawing, come.to the dark side. We have bandsaws. Have I mentioned I have a thing for bandsaws? Dave P even has one! And now Earl!

*Kenny!* get back in here, the hard part is done! Sheesh

Does this plane count as progress?


----------



## EricFai

Great photo Dave.

I have started on the actual block now, trimmed down the blank, squared up sides and got the layout this evening. That was after scrapping all the wax off. Need to invest in a card scrapper.


----------



## duckmilk

Congratulations John!! Cute little bugger ;-)


----------



## Keebler1

Kenny found something for you to make on facebook since your wife likes mickey


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> *Kenny!* get back in here, the hard part is done! Sheesh
> 
> Does this plane count as progress?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - GrantA


I wish it were Grant. For me, that was the easy part. The hard part is machining all the parts that aren't square and then fitting some wood in there…

And no, that doesn't count as progress. But it's cool as hell and is now on my to-do list


----------



## HokieKen

That's really cool Keebler. I'll have to keep that one in mind for sure. Not doing the castle in the bottom but a serving dish like that would be handy for her to bring my beers and snacks when I hollar.


----------



## bndawgs

Congratulations John. Hope everyone is doing good.

Kenny, now you're thinking. Maybe make the ears into beer holders.


----------



## GR8HUNTER

> That s really cool Keebler. I ll have to keep that one in mind for sure. Not doing the castle in the bottom but a serving dish like that would be handy for* her to bring my beers and snacks when I hollar.*
> 
> - HokieKen


ummm WAKE UP Kenny you were dreaming again :<))))))


----------



## bndawgs

I need to install an outlet under the sink for a new garbage disposal(currently hardwired).

Should I get a 15amp or 20amp outlet? And is there a big difference between using a metal box and a plastic one?


----------



## GrantA

If the circuit only has 14ga wire use a 15a. If it has 12ga use a 20a. No difference in the box.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Additionally, match the receptacle to the breaker, if you have a 20A breaker and 12ga wire, you need a 20A receptacle as the breaker won't adequately protect a 15A receptacle. The alternative is a 15A receptacle and replacing the 20A breaker with a 15A breaker. Whatever you do, just make sure the breaker is the lowest rated component in the circuit.


----------



## GrantA

Yeah what he said ^^


----------



## HokieKen

I don't recall ever seeing a disposal that wasn't hardwired. Did you or someone rig it with a tail for some reason or is it sold that way?


----------



## HokieKen

Also, you need a GFCI outlet if your breaker isn't GFCI.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Mine isn't hard wired Ken. House was built in 83. I just put a new one in a year or two ago and it came with a plug.

Definitely need a GFCI!!


----------



## DavePolaschek

I lived somewhere that they required disposals to have a tail and an outlet, Ken. Apparently someone figured that being able to unplug it to service it was better than having to go flip a switch or a breaker. Might not be the case any more. That was in the 90s.


----------



## bndawgs

Originally the builder just stuck the wire out of the wall for the disposal. So the current one, I cut the plug as I didn't know any better. New one will have a plug as well, so I'm doing an outlet now.

Circuit is a 15,so that's what I went with for the plug. Didn't get a gfi though.


----------



## HokieKen

Well I'll be danged. I better buy a couple of hard wired ones before they become obsolete. I don't want to be installing an outlet under my sink…


----------



## bndawgs

After not having a disposal for 2 months, i'm actually looking forward to installing the outlet! lol


----------



## GrantA




----------



## Keebler1

Kenny when I replaced mine it didn't come with a plug. I either took the one off the old unit or bought a new one and wired it in


----------



## EricFai

If you have access to the gfci outlet in the kitchen, you can run a new wire from the load side to and outlet and box under the sink. You would also have to add a switch.

I did the same for a recirculating pump under the bathroom vanity a few years ago.


----------



## HokieKen

I think the disposal requires a dedicated circuit. Maybe not if it's not hard wired though?

Earl? Eeeaaaarrrllllllllll! *LATHE!*


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Did Earls lathe show up? I mean parents….


----------



## duckmilk

It probably did Dave. He's probably too busy playing with it to post any pictures ;-)


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Well I ll be danged. I better buy a couple of hard wired ones before they become obsolete. I don t want to be installing an outlet under my sink…


The outlet under the sink is handy for plugging in the trouble light when water's dripping from something you can't see. GFCI is handy on that outlet because, well…


----------



## HokieKen

I have outlets over the sink and extension cords. I just despise trying to work under a sink and avoid it at all costs ;-)


----------



## GrantA

Just take the sink out first. Fresh sink and pro install, problem solved. Hahaha seriously though I can't imagine a time I'd plug in a light under the sink, too many battery powered options around


----------



## EarlS

> I think the disposal requires a dedicated circuit. Maybe not if it's not hard wired though?
> 
> Earl? Eeeaaaarrrllllllllll! *LATHE!*
> 
> - HokieKen












All of the houses we've lived in (13 and counting) have had plug-in disposals. Makes replacing them a little less horrible.

Here's the lathe - some assembly required. The green tote has all of the part, except the belt that I was supposed to order and forgot. It is longer than I remember. Dad said it has a 4' bed. I don't have a bench that is long enough to handle it so I'm not sure what we are going to do. We've been planing wood for the Roubo bench and cleaning up the garbage walnut I bought on CL. The new bandsaw works great!! The lathe is this morning's breakfast topic. Apparently, the motor is a salvaged 2-speed A/C motor that will require a special switch. I'm guessing the local True Value hardware store probably has it since they are best place to find stuff like that.


----------



## DavePolaschek

But without plugging something in beneath the sink, there's much less chance for an amusing dance of the electrons as you discover a path to ground, so that's kind of a reason all its own.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Pretty exciting Earl. You should look at the various lathe carts and build something to mount that to. Can't wait to see it without the bags over it's head (is it that ugly?).

If you do a cart you can do all of the storage under it like this. 









As for the outlet under the sink, my sink itself plugs into the outlet. It has a touch sensor to turn on and off. No levers or handles anymore, we aren't animals.


----------



## HokieKen

You're such a tease Earl!


----------



## GrantA

Sounds like you need to build a walnut stand /cart for it Earl!


----------



## bndawgs

Earl, you should bolt that lathe to your new workbench


----------



## GR8HUNTER

ONLY 5 P :<(((((((((

Earl where is first bowl ? :<))))))


----------



## duckmilk

> - KelleyCrafts


What belt grinder is that Dave?
I don't have the energy to build my own like Kenny did.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

That's a Sorby. I think they call it a pro edge. Made specifically for sharpening lathe tools. It's expensive, stupid expensive but it's perfect and repeatable so the quality is there for the price.


----------



## DevinT

My special router bit from Canada finally arrived


----------



## JohnMcClure

Y'all think theres any hope for this cherry stump?


----------



## HokieKen

You could probably stabilize it and get some turning stock out of it John. Might have some interesting grain? But I don't imagine it's gonna be good for much without stabilizing.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Anyone have stabilizing equipment and want some of it, then? I don't plan to get into that game.


----------



## GrantA

That's one of the few rabbit holes I haven't jumped into John… Tempting but my plate's full!

Devin I'm not sure what you plan to do with that bit but as I think Kenny mentioned a while back you should definitely bore out what you can from the center before burying that thing!

I ran my rockwell 12/14 a little today, it's a sweet running saw with plenty of power but good grief I don't even want to turn it back on until the dust collector is hooked up and I have an over the blade connection for it. I'm sneezing cypress ugh


----------



## DevinT

GrantA, I'm not going to submerge the bit. I'm going to run it adjacent to the wood in a spiral to create a contour.


----------



## GrantA

Gotcha. You can just call me Grant too DevinT ;-p
So are you going to use it in conjunction with some sort of rotary axis?


----------



## bndawgs

Finally getting back to this serving tray.










Almost time for my least favorite part….deciding on a finish.


----------



## DevinT

Grant, the plane will have an integrated knob that is not screwed-on but extruded out of an oversized plane block.

The CNC motions to mill the knob from the block will be:

1. Plunge 1 1/8" into the air about 2" away from the knob
2. Approach the knob
3. When the leading 1/8" of the sphere (which is 3/4" in diameter) is inside the wood, stop
4. Sweep around the knob, maintaining 1/8" cutting depth inside the outer edge all the way around
5. When we've reached our origin, back away from the knob
6. About 2" away from the knob, retract the bit

That's only pass one. Then pass 2:

1. Plunge 1 1/4" into the air about 2" away from the knob
2. Approach the knob
3. When the leading 1/4" of the sphere is inside the wood, stop
4. Sweep around the knob, maintaining 1/4" cutting depth inside the outer edge all the way around
5. When we've reached our origin, back away from the knob
6. About 2" away from the knob, retract the bit

The knob is taller than the sphere, so what this is doing is creating a contour at the base of the knob that:

1. Cuts into the knob 1/4" 
2. Goes below the base of the knob by 1/8" 
3. Extends beyond the outer edge of the knob by 0.425"

Which creates a very inviting cavity to rest your thumb in when gripping the knob. The fact that the knob is extruded instead of attached, means that it will never turn on you and should stay intact under the most demanding conditions.


----------



## DevinT

A straight router bit will clear most of the material first to make the knob a perfect cylinder before I contour it with the ball end bit.


----------



## DevinT

Grant, like this:


----------



## DevinT

Of course, I just realized I made a critical error. I can't plunge that deep *that close* because the collet nut will hit the wood. Crap.

Crap crap crap.

EDIT: I think I'm just going to have to shorten the knob so the extrusion process doesn't have the CNC ramming the collet into the wood


----------



## JohnMcClure

Devin, I'm so glad you offered a full explanation to Grant and caught your error before the real world caught it, potentially damaging the bit, the machine, the plane, or you!
This approach to a knob is a cool idea. 
One could also cut out circles (or kidney shapes) from 1/8 stock, of varying diameters, then laminate them, then sand smooth, to create a knob with the desired contours.
Looking forward to seeing how you solve this one! You clearly are good at thinking in 3d. I am 2d myself.

Edit:
Saw your edit. Sounds like a plan.


----------



## GrantA

I appreciate the details but I'm not grasping and I'm OK with that. With what I think youodoing, couldn't it be created on a lathe? 
How will you hold the piece (or the shaper) while cutting it?
Workholding is half or more the battle of any machining operation


----------



## DevinT

Here's an eagle-eye view of the extrusion process.

Orange is cut path 1
Green is cut path 2

I show how we enter the cut from the right, circle around, and exit. Twice. First on the orange line, then on the green line.

Grey is the cutter, red in the center of that is the shank.


----------



## Keebler1

John you might give Rich Bolduc a pm I think he can stabilize that but not sure


----------



## DevinT

You should be able to imagine that not too far above that red circle is an even bigger red circle representing the spinning collet nut.

The CNC would perform step 1, plunge >1" into air.

However, as it approaches the knob to cut the contours, that spinning collet nut would slam into the knob as we approached final-depth of the contour.

What I am doing now is measuring the shank length (1 1/4") subtracting 3/4" (the recommended depth at which you are supposed to sink this bit into the collet, according to the manufacturer), and going to use the result (1/2") as the knob girdle.

Originally the knob was going to have a girdle of … /me checks

WHaT?

Apparently I had already thought of this, or … (I think is reality) I got damn-lucky because I just checked the schematics and I had programmed in a height that would result in a 1/2" girdle.

Hah! Well whaddaya know.

I might subtract an 1/8" just to be safe though ;D

If I've done this right, the collet nut will ride just above the knob as we cut the contours.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Cool, Earl!



> ONLY 5 P :<(((((((((


So far, Tony. And not even two weeks until the deadline. Sure hope I don't have to drop myself for being a slacker, but we spent the day hauling pickup loads of brush to the dumpster. And waiting for the sprinkler service guy to show up to turn on the system for the year, but I'm guessing he'll be here mañana. The watering ban goes into effect a week from Sunday, so we'll get a whole week's use out of our system!

John, I've got stabilizing stuff and juice, but I don't need any more projects at the moment.

Devin, sounds interesting.


----------



## EricFai

The outlet under the sink is a must now a days, disposal, touchless faucets, dishwasher. Go with it just make sure it's a gfci.

Devin, I can't read french.

Stabilizing wood, give it time and it will stabilize itself, can't rush a good thing.

On a serious mater do I take a promotion or not? Better half says no. I say yes.

Happy Cinco De Miya, those Marigreata's were good.

One evening, and too many comments to read, this is such a fun group. And some of these post are so mind boggling.


----------



## Keebler1

Eric y turn down a promotion?


----------



## Lazyman

Well, I am finally back from a trip to NYC hauling a load of mid-century furniture that I refurbished, refinished and reupholstered for my daughter so I can finally get back to plane making. I was starting to get a little antsy about having to drop out of the swap but I think that I am back in the game now. I spent this afternoon noodling about my next prototype and then milling an odd-shaped chunk of bois d'arc on the bandsaw into a form I can use after I do a couple more prototypes and settle on a design. It turned out to have a little bit of subtle figure to it once I ran a jack plane over it. As I was digging through my wood hoard, I also found a turning blank that may be some (so called) Argentine lignum vitae but unfortunately, the grain runs the wrong direction for use in a plane. At first I thought it might be a piece of bois d'arc but it definitely has the sweet smell associated with ALV when I ran a plane over it and it was definitely more greenish than yellow.


----------



## EricFai

Dave, not yet. I have until Monday to give my decision. But leaning towards it. increase in salary and a few more hours. But I think I can get the overall hours down in a month or two. Construction Project Manager, can be stressfully, but the current one we have is not good.

Currently I am an Estimator, boss thinks I would do well and we have an assistance that makes it so much easier. Current PM, does not understand how easy it could be. The problem I have is with the better half here is not happy with it. Thinks it will take time away from us.


----------



## Keebler1

Simple solution Eric tell the better half to find a way to make the extra money you wouldn't be getting by turning down the promotion before you have to say yay or may or your taking the promotion then hope you can get comfortable in the shop lol


----------



## HokieKen

You must be fairly newly married Eric. If you tell my wife she can get me out of the house for a few more hours and get extra money to boot she'd congratulate me as she pushed me out the door ;-)


----------



## JohnMcClure

Eric,
Oof.


----------



## EarlS

Eric - my 2 cents worth - take the promotion. A construction PM is a lot more marketable than an estimator. If you have the chance, take the classes and get the certification for it as well. As for hours, there will (hopefully) always be more work to do than time to do it and it will be there tomorrow. PM's get paid more than estimators because they are the ones making decisions and figuring out all of the details, not because they work more hours.

So what do I know about it? I'm a senior project manager (engineer) with a multinational grain processing company. I have a senior construction PM that works with me. We work with large engineering firms as well as local contractors (piping, electrical, millwrights). They all have construction PM's that work with us to coordinate everything that needs to be done.


----------



## JohnMcClure

> a multinational corn processing company.
> - EarlS


Fixed that for you Earl.

But seriously, while you have the energy, take the promotion, make the money. You can make it time-effective after a couple months of settling in. You can always "step down" after a few months or a couple years if it truly exhausts you and your relationship, but I bet you don't.


----------



## DevinT

I think you might find this entertaining.

I finally finished editing the video I made last weekend of me resawing a Black Walnut board.


----------



## HokieKen

Holy crap that's painful to watch. Bless your heart.


----------



## Lazyman

I thought my work bench situation was bad. Time to build your self a bench and a frame saw for resaw. Note to whoever gets Devin's name in the swap: Devin needs a kerfing plane.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

No thanks. I love using my hand tools and do so any chance that makes sense but ripping boards….takes all the fun out of the hobby.


----------



## HokieKen

Not even a frame saw for me. Nope. Bandsaw to resaw or I'll just plane the bastard down.


----------



## DevinT

Ken, do you think it would have taken me less time to just pull out the No 8 jointer and simply plane the 1 1/8" board down to 5/16" ? It took me 2 hours to resaw that board.


----------



## DevinT

Lazyman, ... /me researches what a kerfing plane is


----------



## HokieKen

When I said "plane it down" I meant with my power planer. But to answer your question, I doubt you could plane it down in less than 2 hours. If you wanted to make another video and try, I'd watch though ;-p

In all seriousness, a kerfing plane and frame saw would speed up your process significantly.


----------



## MikeB_UK

A kerfing saw just cuts a grove (kerf) at a fixed distance from the edge, like a plough plane but with a saw blade instead of an iron. Makes it easier to resaw to the line.

Leaves a nice finish that Ryoba, but it's damn slow.
I'd go with something with bigger teeth, then clean the surface after.

Have you got something against panel saws?

Cutting to width instead of thickness here, but only took 5 minutes.


----------



## DevinT

I admit to not knowing a whole lot about saws. I know that there are different types, like a Gents saw, backsaw hacksaw, dovetail saw, coping saw, rip saw, pull saw, but that's the extent of what I can name when it comes to hand saws. I own a hacksaw, coping saw, and pull saw. I couldn't tell you what a back saw or gents saw are used for. I think a rip saw is a regular push saw-if so, I've not had good luck with those, but maybe that's because I last used them 20+ years ago and was less experienced then.


----------



## HokieKen

Google Roubo Frame Saw Devin. If I were resawing by hand, that's the direction I would head.


----------



## DevinT

Not a bad way to go. A little big, but I guess that's what you need.

Oh, by the way, that was just black walnut. I'm totally looking forward to doing a resaw on even harder woods like Dalbergia S. (Honduran Rosewood).

Thankfully, I don't have to resaw Bubinga, Cocobolo, Ironwood, or Osage Orange. Those would be murderous.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Devin, that was painful for me to watch, and I do a bunch of hand-resawing.

I generally do a lot of "split it in half" resawing. My marking gauge is a pencil held in my hand. If I'm feeling lazy, I'll cut the initial kerf with a circular saw, but I also have both a 3/8 and 3/4 kerfing plane (fixed fence), and if I'm using either of those, I won't even bother marking a pencil line. But measuring finer than an eighth is a waste for me, because I won't saw straighter than that over the whole cut. But I generally figure I'm going to be planing away at least a sixteenth from each side of the kerf to get things back to flat. Less on smaller boards, but I still figure on wasting that much, and sometimes I'm happily surprised.

Once that's done, the workholding is the next thing. Even a Workmate with a couple cases of ammo on the foot step looks like it would hold a board better. My twin-screw face vise on my bench is pretty good, but you have to lean over the bench to get aligned with it, which can cause me to wander a bit on a long board.

For saw, you want a longer blade so you can take longer strokes and make more progress with each. I've got a frame saw that's got a 30 inch long plate filed at 5ppi rip. That chews through the lumber fairly quickly. But I also use a panel saw that I think is 7ppi rip, and a 9tpi tenon saw that's 16 inches long for resawing smaller stuff. They're all push saws, but that's part of living in America. There's probably a long, coarse Japanese saw that good for resawing, but I haven't found one I'm happy with.

Not that I have any opinions on the matter.


----------



## donwilwol

> I think you might find this entertaining.
> 
> I finally finished editing the video I made last weekend of me resawing a Black Walnut board.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - DevinT


you definitely need a kerfing plane!!!!!


----------



## EricFai

Earl,

The company that I work for Handles insurance claims mostly, residential jobs. There is always work coming in, unfortunately for the homeowner, but great for us.

A previous company I worked for was trying me and a few others for a PM, after about 3 weeks of the course they laid my off, still have the book. That ended up with my finding the estimator position. I think I would do very well as a PM, have the constitution knowledge and the communication skills needed.

The better half dies not understand the potentials of the job. Current company is small with not much room for advancement. I realize that the first few months are going to be tough, but after that should be simple and less hours. She is just not seeing it that way, has me working 70 hours a week. She knows my nature, and work ethic, and does not want to deal with the long hours. We have been together for 13 years.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Never used a roubo style frame saw, but my coarsest panel saw (probably called a rip saw by that point) is 5ppi.

I've been known to clamp to a doorframe if I need something steady - clamp a sacrificial board between the saw and the frame just in case your line, err, wanders a bit.


----------



## EarlS

Devin - I think I would have simply ordered a thinner piece of wood or asked one of the guys lurking about the swap thread to cut some for you rather than doing all of that work. It wore me out just watching. My excuse for not re-sawing by hand is that I had carpal tunnel surgery on both hands last year and will likely need the elbow surgery for the numbness in the outside 3 fingers on both hands. On the positive side, that was one of the reasons I gave SWMBO for getting the Harvey bandsaw.

Plus, I'm too darn lazy.


----------



## DevinT

Heh, the wood was free. When my neighbor moved he said he wanted to move "on easy mode" and left a bunch of lumber. I scavenged as much as I could before it was taken away (don't worry, I got *all* the hardwood).

I asked MacBeath Hardwood how much they charge for jointing/surfacing. I was looking at $40 per board for surfacing, regardless of size (if my memory is correct). That's a bit much to spend on free wood that I am making a test piece for something.

I am so sorry to hear about your carpal tunnel surgery. I have had it in waves and it scares me every time; so-much so that I immediately stop doing computer work and woodwork whenever it flairs up and wear a wrist brace until it goes away (one time took 3 weeks). Thankfully I haven't had a flare-up in a couple years.

Oh, and thanks for the tip on how to navigate SWMBO when it comes to requesting authorization for a band-saw.


----------



## duckmilk

> Oh, and thanks for the tip on how to navigate SWMBO when it comes to requesting authorization for a band-saw.
> 
> - DevinT


But…you are SWMBO ;-P

That ryoba has too fine a tooth count for that kind of work, made me sweat watching.


----------



## DevinT

> But…you are SWMBO ;-P


Hah!


----------



## jeffswildwood

Agree, that was a lot of work doing that resaw. My last resaw I did, that didn't fit my band saw, involved a table saw then a regular hand saw. Followed by the planer to clean up and flatten the mess.


----------



## DavePolaschek

More gardening today. Sure hope we can wrap up the "spring planting" for the year soon. Tomorrow is another day of hauling brush and planting, but hopefully next week I can get a few days. I think I figured the way out of the corner I've painted myself into with the Plan A plane, but I need three or four hours to see if I can get it done. Plan B looks like too long on the calendar, and plan C got killed for other reasons… I've got D and E, but wasn't especially happy with either of those from a "pushing my skills" POV.

Ahh well. There's still a week to go before progress pictures are due, so hopefully other folks are getting closer.


----------



## DevinT

Made no progress today as I had to put up another new curtain/rods set (window 3 of 4 this time). First had to take down old curtains/rods and spackle the holes. The old set I replaced was purchased in 2009 that we brought from a previous home, and these new ones are from 2020 (but didn't arrive until 2021). Getting that done got me some brownie points and hopefully earned me some Shop Time this weekend.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Teaser?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Nice, John.

Got out in the shop this morning and finished off a couple other projects that intruded while I was trying to think of a solution to the plane. My old handsaw now has a new handle that fits my hand. Photos to follow tomorrow once the oil has had a chance to cure a bit more.


----------



## jeffswildwood

My nephew brought me a walnut shifter knob from his classic Corvette the other day. It appears to have been custom made and turned and he wants me to "make it shine". It looks like raw wood, unfinished but I'm sure it has some wax in it from cleaning over the years and maybe some oil from shifting.. My confusion is what to use. I plan on putting it on the lathe, clean and smooth it out but then what. Shellac? Poly? Maybe even CA glue? I'm at a loss as to which would be best to make it shine and glow. Any suggestions?


----------



## Keebler1

If it has wax I don't think anything but shellac will stick but I could be wrong. I would go for something like my lands friction polish and just tell him to bring it by every year or two for a refresh as needed.


----------



## Lazyman

I depends upon the look and fee that you want, Jeff. If you want a high gloss, glassy finish, CA might be the way to go (see my gear shift knob below). If you want it to look and feel like wood, my go to is something like Tried and True Varnish oil, which is what I prefer when I make tool handles. It just gives a silky feel that I really like to hold and can be re-coated later if needed with no additional sanding. Just clean off any grime, a quick pass of 0000 steel wool and and wipe on a few more coats with steel wool again between coats.



EDIT. The wax will come off with mineral spirits and IMO won't adversely affect either CA or T&T VO.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree with CA if you want a durable, glossy finish Jeff. I've never tried Tried and True buy I like Howards Wax and Feed for a nice rich finish with some shine. But I don't think it's really durable enough for a shifter knob.


----------



## GR8HUNTER

Jeff or others here what about Tru-Oil ? ? :<)))


----------



## HokieKen

I like Tru-Oil a lot Tony. I don't know why I didn't think about that! That's exactly what I'd use. The Tried and True that Nathan suggested is probably pretty much the same thing too.


----------



## Lazyman

My worry with the Howards Feed and Wax is that the orange oil might be a problem in the heat of summer. I don't think that the orange oil is a drying oil so it might migrate to the surface feel oily when it heats up? I've never tried it on a tool handle or shift knob but a few bowls that I have finished with it stayed oily for a while. Here is a picture comparing a CA (left) and and T&T finish (right). The T&T is ash cedar and has an amazingly silky feel and a nice satin sheen. If I make more shift knobs someday, I will probably stick with the T&T.










EDIT: BTW, I apply the T&T on the lathe like a friction finish. I wipe on a thin layer and then buff it with clean cloth at high speed generating some heat. This sets it pretty quickly and you can apply several coats a day this way instead of waiting 24 hours between coats as the can directs.


----------



## GR8HUNTER

*THIS GUY* gets it right :<))))))))


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah with Tru-Oil, you have to go with very light coats and make sure it cures between coats or all the coats after that won't cure. I've had to strip it before and go back to square one. Tried and True is sounding more and more like the best finish to me.

Edit: CA is still a good choice. Just depends on which look and feel you're after


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I've never used the Tru-Oil so I would put a CA finish on it and make it shine. Asked on my experience. Good question, I've learned something here today.


----------



## jeffswildwood

I have to use something I have on hand, unfortunately I don't have any tru oil but plenty of CA. Just never used CA before. I may try a practice piece. I am not sure it has any wax on it but considering the age, I'm betting it could have anything from wax to armor all. 0000 may do the trick.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> My worry with the Howards Feed and Wax is that the orange oil might be a problem in the heat of summer. I don't think that the orange oil is a drying oil so it might migrate to the surface feel oily when it heats up?


Orange oil will evaporate in a few days to a few weeks. I've used it 50-50 with tung help get the tung oil to penetrate better, but I prefer plain old mineral spirits most of the time because they evaporate more quickly.

But the Howard's Feed and Wax will basically just be beeswax after the orange oil evaporates. Not an especially robust finish.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Another teaser.


----------



## Keebler1

Since we are posting pictures here's the pen I just got from NY latest pen swap. Crepe myrtle burl


----------



## JohnMcClure

I've made great progress and am proud of my plane… honestly I'm going to need to make another for myself as nice as this one. 
It's not done, I need to make a couple parts with intricate geometry, and I am awaiting a bit of brass in the mail. And of course needs a finish, have we discussed this? Wax, blo?


----------



## donwilwol

> Yeah with Tru-Oil, you have to go with very light coats and make sure it cures between coats or all the coats after that won t cure. I ve had to strip it before and go back to square one. Tried and True is sounding more and more like the best finish to me.
> 
> Edit: CA is still a good choice. Just depends on which look and feel you re after
> 
> - HokieKen


Ken, I've been using teu-oil since before recorded history. I've never seen it do what you describe, and believe me, I'm not known for patience. I know some guys do three coats and strip it back, but I don't. I always do a hand rub finish. I coat until I get the results I want. I agree in thin coats though, so maybe it dries quick enough so I don't have a problem. I do the same type of finish with blo.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Hey John, the talk about gear shift knobs might be appropriate. I have tended to finish my tools with just a few coats of BLO then maybe a bit of wax, but I've also been experimenting with homemade friction finish on turned things on the lathe. That's nothing more than a hardening oil and shellac mix, speed-cured by heat.

I don't know if I'd like a CA finish on a tool I'm going to be spending a lot of time using, but I can't say as I've tried it, either.

Not a teaser, but getting this out of the way let me make a ton of progress on the plane today.










Curly cherry handle on a dovetail saw I rescued from eBay. The stock handle was riveted on and pretty horrible, but the plate is good, and was sharp as purchased, so I've been sawing with it today. That's just two coats of BLO, but I'll probably be apply a little wax or something once I'm done tweaking the handle shape.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Also, we have two more *P*s today. Got an email from MakerOfSawdust and I made enough progress that I'm figuring I'll be able to finish.


----------



## Lazyman

Coincidentally, I just so happen to be applying a T&T Varnish oil finish to a plane nob I picked up at a flea market yesterday. This is right after applying the second coat. I'll wait an hour and friction buff it on the lathe. It appears to be walnut.


----------



## HokieKen

I have committed the cardinal sin. There is a vehicle in my garage :-/


----------



## GR8HUNTER

nice honda LOL :<))))))))))

Tru-Oil indeed needs put on in thin coats with fingers


----------



## HokieKen

> Ken, I ve been using teu-oil since before recorded history. I ve never seen it do what you describe, and believe me, I m not known for patience. I know some guys do three coats and strip it back, but I don t. I always do a hand rub finish. I coat until I get the results I want. I agree in thin coats though, so maybe it dries quick enough so I don t have a problem. I do the same type of finish with blo.
> 
> - Don W


I only had an issue once and I can't recall what it was even on right now. I do remember it was an exotic for a swap and after about 2 weeks it was still tacky to the touch. I think it was just a combination of an oily exotic and me coating it too heavy. Typically I put it on with my finger in coats that are just enough to make it look damp at a rate of 1 coat/day and after three coats I rub it out with 0000 steel wool and a dab of BLO and keep going until it looks and feels right. Usually 5-6 coats I think.


----------



## DevinT




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## JohnMcClure

Bubinga shavings?


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## DevinT

Black walnut. Gave me a little problem with tear-out toward the end, so I sharpened the blades up and that solved the tear-out. Went Stanley No 8 → Veritas No 4 → Veritas card scraper (by hand; no holder-just kept flipping and rotating it to account for the build-up in heat).

In my opinion the Veritas smoother leaves a cleaner surface than the card scraper, but even on Black Walnut I was finding that the blade has to be ultra sharp to get some of the cathedral grain patterns without tear-out. After 30 minutes of planing in this Walnut and I was getting tear-out again on those switch-backs where the grain reverses on me. I am willing to settle for a scraped surface though. It will take a finish real nice and is extremely smooth to the touch with zero tear-out and about 98% flat (there's a little tiny dishing where I scraped a little more than other places, but that shouldn't be detectable on this non-glue side-it will still shoot straight).

EDIT: This walnut is just for a prototype to test the design of my plane.


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## EarlS

Devin - I thought those might be California's version of potato chips or something like that….. ;+D


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## duckmilk

Those are some nice shavings Devin.


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## DevinT

Thanks, duck!


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## Woodmaster1

Swap item boxed and ready to go to some unlucky participant.


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## DavePolaschek

That's two folks ready to ship, as far as I know. And four I'm waiting on progress photos from before I send out names (or next Monday, if I have to wait).

Had another productive day yesterday. Today the wind was down, so we were back to yard work. Hauled another load of brush, including a 7gallon bucket full of cactus, to the dumpster. You'd think our lot would look bare by now, but nope, there's still more crap out there…


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## HuntDawg99

Wish I could take part!


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## Mosquito

You can strike me from the list I think Dave. I haven't been in the shop at all in way too long, and haven't been able to make any progress on anything, let alone this.


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## DavePolaschek

Well, that means only three progress photos needed, so it's like progress, I guess.


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## doubleG469

Nathan has graciously allowed me to come over on Saturday to use his tablesaw and finally work on this thing.

It's really an eye opener when you can't walk into a store and purchase a tool anymore.

Dave you'll get my progress pic on Saturday.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Sounds good, Gary. Hopefully Nathan will have some progress, too. Let me know if you guys want each other in the swap so you can do an in-person exchange…

Who'd'a'thunk that Grant would be trail-end Charlie with the progress photo? ;-)


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## KelleyCrafts

Grant will get you a progress pic a day after it's due. That's his MO.

He's probably in line at the gas station.


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## DevinT

It took me 10 days, but I now have a 3/8" thick board of Black Walnut that is perfectly flat, smooth, and shiny on both sides. That will make up the sides of my prototype plane.

Now I have to work on the lumber for the core of the plane, which is going to be the same 1 1/8" thick lumber I worked to get the 3/8" thick board, except for the core I will need 7/8" thick lumber-which means I have to remove 1/8" from each side.

The 7/8" thick board has to be the same size as the 3/8" thick board, but fortunately it does not have to be smooth or shiny. That should significantly reduce the amount of time to prepare it. I estimate I could probably pull it off in 1 day.

So far, if I don't count the amount of time spent drawing, drafting, and testing measurements, I've only spent 8 hours on the build so far. Trying to keep it under 30 hours.


----------



## Lazyman

I may be moving to plan C. A & B were meh. Gotta go see if I can find the parts I need.

Note to whoever gets Devin's name. Not only does she need a kerfing plane but she also needs a scrub plane. ;-)


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## JohnMcClure

> 10 days, ... perfectly flat, smooth, and shiny on both sides.
> - DevinT


If you wait 10 more days I bet it won't be flat any more!


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## DevinT

I let the wood sit for a week after the resaw, and it definitely twisted a little in the process. However, I am not seeing much change now that it has been planed, though it has only been one day.

Do you think it will continue to move much more? Enough to have to re-flatten it? Should I re-flatten and re-smooth right before applying finish?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Devin, Something to keep in mind for the future is to process wood when you plan to use it so it isnt sitting around. So same day or in your case same 11 days??


----------



## DevinT

So in other words, seal it as soon as you can after processing it.

I can't imagine a day or two would be that harmful-else all those MacBeath Hardwood customers which are paying $40+ to have their lumber surfaced would be very angry when it came back in two days and they picked it up a warped board from will-call, though I imagine it depends on the species.

I guess fingers-crossed that it won't change too much on me in the coming days as I cut the remaining pieces for assembly.

If I am unable to cut all 6 pieces of the plane, make hardware cut-outs, glue everything up, do the engravings, bore the insert holes, install the inserts, and apply the finish to seal the wood all before anything shifts on me, then I am in real trouble as I don't have the machinery to go any faster.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Actually sealing the wood doesn't stop movement, it'll slow it some but wood will always move.

You could plane a board and it could be dead flat and then a potato chip the next day. A lot of that has to do with how dry the boards were when milled AND if they were air dried or kiln dried. That makes a difference as well. The environment also makes a difference. I'm in a dry climate in AZ so our humidity in the late summer will hit 18% and that's miserable times for us but if you live in other parts of the country 18% is a good day. So the time of year and levels/swings in humidity throughout the day will change things. I don't have large swings here.

SF isn't as bad as the south would be so I'm guessing it'll be relatively stable.

I'm sure the hardwood place you mentioned has it down to a science. Probably all kiln dried and regulated along the way as well. Dehumidifiers in the shop, etc. when those folks take their boards home they might see some changes.


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## DavePolaschek

My dining room table that's over fifteen years old moved enough when we came to New Mexico that it's tearing itself apart. Wood moves.










I've worried a bit about how stuff I make here will move when it gets somewhere wetter. Good thing I'm not all that precise in my woodworking, I guess! ;-)

I wouldn't worry too much about the movement in a plane. Just make sure the wood is more or less all going the same direction, and it'll be fine. But crossing the grain, as they did when they built my table… well, that's not a recipe for long-term success.


----------



## DevinT

OK, so unlike plywood where the plies are rotated to create grain running in different directions, you recommend everything running in the same direction?

I was going to do that anyways, but for a different reason. I didn't want the grain structure pointing toward the front of the plane because it would have a nasty effect.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Yeah. Everything in the same direction. That way, if the wood expands or contracts, it'll all do so at more or less the same rate. The plane might get a little bigger, but it's not going to crack.


----------



## DevinT

Thanks. I was worried about shipping to someone in a really different climate and wondering if I needed to somehow acclimate the wood to the final destination before sending it. Though, how much moisture can really penetrate all those coatings of finish? I typically apply 9 coats of Danish Oil (Watco).


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## DevinT

Video of the surfacing that happened in-between resaw and planing.


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## Lazyman

The movement that you see when you start to dimension and plane your boards is often cause by stresses that built up during drying. Cutting and planing can release those stresses which is why it is a good idea to mill close to the final dimensions and wait a few days before you do the final dimensioning.

There is a good overview of dimensional wood movement at wood-database.com. In a nutshell, the movement lengthwise (longitudinally) is nil while the radial and tangential movement can be significant so having different boards oriented with the grain at right angles to each other is bad, though for boards of less than about 12-18" long it usually is not a significant problem. Additionally, there are differences between the shrinkage rates of juvenile wood (about the first 10 years or rings) and mature wood (after 10 years) so by picking boards that don't include those first 10 rings of growth (sometimes called the pith) or that are quarter sawn, it will be much more stable and will crack, cup, warp or twist less. When I pick my lumber, I always look at both ends to make sure it includes no juvenile wood or has quarter sawn grain orientation. I also try to make sure that the grain is mostly *not *diagonal from end to end.

Occasionally, I get to use my forestry degree.


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## KelleyCrafts

Good add Nathan. I failed to mention the stresses. Especially with ripping/re-saving wider boards.


----------



## DevinT

Thanks, this is excellent information. Thank you Nathan.


----------



## duckmilk

> Nathan has graciously allowed me to come over on Saturday to use his tablesaw and finally work on this thing.
> 
> - doubleG469


What time? )))


----------



## EricFai

DoubleG, I know what your saying about tool shopping. I need a new table saw myself, and was shocked to hear 3-4 months lead time. So I have been searching that infamous craigslist. Now with the panic purchase of fuel here in the Southeast, that might get pushed out a bit.

So it has been handsaw and bandsaw for my build here.


----------



## Keebler1

I have heard the Harvey table saws don't have that much lead time currently


----------



## HokieKen

Mos is such a slacker. Who signs up for a swap and then drops off the roster before progress pics are even due??


----------



## Lazyman

We haven't decided on a time Duck but you are welcome to join us. Maybe you can help me finalize my plan for this swap.

I didn't find the parts I was looking for plan C but I did find a possible plan D.


----------



## DevinT

I had a very productive day yesterday. I thought I could get the core lumber dimensioned in one day, but that proved to be wrong because I didn't have all the necessary parts. I had to make yet another set of risers for my surfacing jig because the router bit was not long enough to reach the depth I needed for thicknessing.

However, I quickly remembered that I am out of pine 2×4's. I thought to go to the BORG to pick up another 2×4 (which I really didn't want to do, as they are $10+ right now) and I remembered I have a small stash of Redwood 2×4's.

That went better than expected. I hate the smell of pine 2×4 sawdust. This redwood was much less nasty and didn't stink up the shop to High Heaven with that horrible smell. Also, there was *MUCH* less resin build-up on the surfacing bit of my router.

I definitely don't want to know what a Redwood 2×4 cost right now though. I had these on-hand and needed them, so they got used. Saved me a trip to the BORG and worked really well, in my opinion.

Cutting that riser took 2h, and it was then time for dinner, so I didn't get the core lumber dimensioned in one day. Should finish it up today. Then I can start on the good stuff, which is cutting everything out and gluing it up.


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos is such a slacker. Who signs up for a swap and then drops off the roster before progress pics are even due??
> 
> - HokieKen


Yeah, only a-holes do that


----------



## doubleG469

> We haven t decided on a time Duck but you are welcome to join us. Maybe you can help me finalize my plan for this swap.
> 
> I didn t find the parts I was looking for plan C but I did find a possible plan D.
> 
> - Lazyman


Duck does your truck know the way this far into the big city? Come on, I'll stop and get beer!

Nothing like trying to be precise and add beer to the mix.


----------



## Lazyman

I've got plenty of IPA though I know you guys are not crazy about them. BTW, my plan D is better if I drink.


----------



## DevinT

I'll take that IPA off your hands. ^_^ I do love a hoppy micro-brew.


----------



## duckmilk

> We haven t decided on a time Duck but you are welcome to join us. Maybe you can help me finalize my plan for this swap.
> 
> I didn t find the parts I was looking for plan C but I did find a possible plan D.
> 
> - Lazyman
> 
> Duck does your truck know the way this far into the big city? Come on, I ll stop and get beer!
> 
> Nothing like trying to be precise and add beer to the mix.
> 
> - doubleG469


Yes my pickup knows the way, at least my old one did. I've had a new one since Oct. '19 but I'm sure it won't get too lost. Navigating that alley with a long wheel base is a little tricky.

I just bought some Shiner too!


----------



## DavePolaschek

> I ll take that IPA off your hands. ^_^ I do love a hoppy micro-brew.


Beer swap is up once this one has wrapped up….

Sounds like Nathan and Gary will have progress photos for me by Sunday, so I'm just waiting to hear from Grant. Hope one of his big-ass machines didn't tip over on him. Hopefully names will go out on Monday.


----------



## EarlS

Dave - you need one of these


----------



## JohnMcClure

Darn right he does!


----------



## Keebler1

Pen I just finished today. Pine cone resin hybrid


----------



## DevinT

Gorgeous!


----------



## Keebler1

Thanks Devin. Nathan here's the last usable blank with your 3d print.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Those are looking good Keebs. Less fat than your old ones. I like the new look.


----------



## Keebler1

Thanks Dave. These are rollerball don't look too good fat. I am also working on getting a better profile on them.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I like the profile you have. I would probably taper the bottom more gradually, start earlier, maybe half way up the pen but even without that they look great. Also, roller balls are the best to write with IMO.


----------



## Keebler1

The pine cone blank is for someone at church who has helped on the safety team every Sunday with no complaints who is moving to ID and the red and white blank it for my dispatcher(gotta try to keep getting those miles lol)


----------



## KelleyCrafts

They both look great. Good blanks for sure.


----------



## DevinT

Performed my first cuts on the plane today. Started by cutting the glue channels.

I am not happy with the 1/8" up-cut router bit that came with the Shaper Origin, for two reasons. One, it's an up-cut. I don't know why everyone is so crazy about up-cut spiral bits. For me, if I'm going all the way through to my spoil board, I'll use a down-cut, or if I'm not going all the way through I'll use a compression bit. Ain't nobody got time for messed-up edges. Second, it's not long enough. Its cutting length is only 1/2" and I need to go through 7/8" of material.

I ordered the SpeTool 1" cutting-length 1/8" diameter compression bit which arrives tomorrow.

Can't cut through 7/8" thick material with a 1/2" long cutting head, so I wait until tomorrow to resume work with the 1" long cutter.

With this bit, I'll be at 24 router bits. I really need to cut the insert for one of my Systainer's to hold all my bits instead of storing them in a pencil bag. Kind of annoying when it takes you 2 minutes to find the router bit you need because it's all the way at the bottom of the bag in its protective case. All the bits are in protective cases, which also makes the bag rather bulky. It's already so big it barely fits in my toolbox, let alone that my two largest router bits are stored off to the side.


----------



## GrantA

I'm still around just haven't stayed caught up on the thread, lots going on! Y'all can bank on me not being early bahahaha but I'll be in the home shop (where the lathe and mill are operational) tomorrow working on some swap stuff. I'll be up early smoking a couple Boston butts

I've been tuning up and using the big tannewitz bandsaw the past few days, I love that machine! The table had some play in it and the guides weren't quite right so I've got that all situated and I'm waiting on some bronze bar stock to make new guide pads. That'll make a huge difference!


----------



## Keebler1

Devin Sounds to me like you need a bigger toolbox. Found one for you and yes it's full for the most part.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Devin, depending on the application chip extraction is often more important than a bit of edge fuzz. There are many approaches to that problem, though, and it looks like you've found one that works!

Hoping Kenny comes back to give me an engineering opinion before I finalize, but I'm quite nearly there.


----------



## DevinT

I usually do multiple passes in the range of 50-100% of the cutting diameter. So for a 1/8" bit, I won't go deeper than 1/8" per pass. In between passes, I simply suck out the swarf with my shop vac which I've got hooked up to a quick-connect on a boom.


----------



## Keebler1

Now where's the fun in that Devin your supposed to make the cut in one pass as fast as possible


----------



## Mosquito

If you're only making a 1/8" deep cut the first pass, isn't a compression bit acting as an upcut?


----------



## GrantA

Yeah a compression bit only works properly if it's completely through the material. Just use a downcut then if you want to minimize tear out on the bottom make the last pass with compression or just an upcut


----------



## DevinT

Mos, a 1/8" dia. compression bit has the transition at about 1/16"
Meanwhile, a 1/4" dia. compression bit has the transition at about 1/8".
Generally speaking the transition will be at less than dia.


----------



## DevinT

Exactly, Grant. Which is why I don't buy up-cuts. Only downs and compressions.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Everyone here knows how much I like to make the post office door banks. I am always on the look out for doors at a reasonable price. I found a deal on E bay the other day, 150 doors in a rack for $350.00. The problem? Pick up only and it's located in Riverside California. Just a bit too far for a road trip.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Seems to me Grant might be able to help with that, Jeff. Don't know how much it would cost, but I bet he can tell you.


----------



## DevinT

Shop Dog is making sure everyone is practicing good safety and wearing all their PPE. Don't let Shop Dog catch you taking shortcuts.


----------



## GrantA

Cute shop dog Devin! I'm biased towards Bo though 









Good thing I was wearing a respirator this morning, found sawdust in my wallet haha, been ripping some maple


----------



## EarlS

Hey Bo!!!
I'm getting set to plane the 12×4 x 87 oak bench top section for the roubo bench


----------



## Woodmaster1

> I have heard the Harvey table saws don t have that much lead time currently
> 
> - Keebler1


The 6' rabbit is working overtime to get them out the door.


----------



## EricFai

Cute pups.


----------



## DevinT

Grant, Bo looks totally awesome.

Eric, Thanks!


----------



## jeffswildwood

> Seems to me Grant might be able to help with that, Jeff. Don't know how much it would cost, but I bet he can tell you.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


That would be amazing. At it's current cost, it's $2.33 cents a door. I just bought four at a junk shop for $70.00. A little on the steep side but it's been all I can find lately. So what ever shipping is, it would still be a great deal. The problem is the seller don't want to fight it, he just wants someone to pay and haul. At least that is what I assume with "local pick up only" under shipping cost.


----------



## Keebler1

Sounds like Devin might get to take a day trip down there to get it for you then


----------



## DevinT

I have family down there. No need to drive anywhere. My dad lives about 15 minutes West of Riverside, where I grew up.


----------



## DevinT

Problem is my dad doesn't have a truck. My Uncle does, but I don't know how much I can ask of family. Are we talking hauling, temporary storing, wrapping, packing, and shipping, might need a pretty good bribe.


----------



## Keebler1

If I were Jeff I'd offer a six pack of local brew for the work


----------



## EricFai

This all sounds like a road trip.

I am still searching for a table saw, and found one down near Atlanta, which is about 2 hours. And through emails found out they are selling some antiques too. Have to see what else they have next weekend.

Plane progress today, chip well all hollowed out, just a bit of fine tuning yet, then I can start on the tote and knob. I should have the time for the bonus item too.


----------



## drsurfrat

There's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark out, and we're wearing sunglasses.
- Elwood Blues


----------



## EarlS

> There s 106 miles to Chicago, we ve got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it s dark out, and we re wearing sunglasses.
> - Elwood Blues
> 
> - drsurfrat


+1

Devin - what is your Shop Dog's name?


----------



## EricFai

Those were the days Mike


----------



## DavePolaschek

Got a progress photo from Gary. Just Nathan and Grant left before I can send out names.

Spent an hour or so fine-tuning the shape of the tote today. Got two tools I need to finish off the plane on their way, and they should be here Wednesday, and then I can finish making all the pieces parts I need and hopefully start putting pieces together.

Tomorrow I think I'll be cleaning up the pile of cholla and saving about a five-gallon bucket full for me, and throwing the rest out. Other than DoubleDD, nobody wanted a box of cholla. Oh well. The yard looks better.


----------



## Keebler1

Dave how much you want for a box of cholla? Anyone know if it needs to be stabilized before casting?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

You'll want to stabilize it Keebs, it's really hard stuff until it isn't. I've cast many many pieces of cholla.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I was figuring on swapping it with folks, Keebs. What do you want to send me in exchange? Also, do you prefer longer, smaller diameter pieces (large flat rate game board box) or shorter thicker pieces (large flat rate box) ?

As Dave said, you'll want to stabilize it.


----------



## DevinT

EarlS, his name is Bailey.


----------



## DevinT

Swap progress, mistakes were made today. Had the spindle speed too high on the CNC and burned the wood that I so carefully dimensioned by hand. Also started a cut with the wrong bit diameter setting and it took a 1/16" too deep a cut in one area. Hopefully I can salvage it instead of having to re-do that one piece. Even if I have to do that piece over again, it will only cost me 2-3 days of work.

It just stings that I made those rookie mistakes. I think I was just a little too excited to make the first cuts.


----------



## HokieKen

No shop dog for me but we had a trail ram hiking the Bright Angel trail in the Grand Canyon this morning.


----------



## Keebler1

Dave think I'll have to pass on the cholla. Don't have a way to stabilize it


----------



## EarlS

> EarlS, his name is Bailey.
> 
> - DevinT


Devin - Earl works better for me than EarlS. :+) I'd say most of us are on a first name basis around here.

The second big chunk for the Roubo top is glued up and ready to run thru the planer. Is is only 8" wide. Happily, the 12" piece planed up nicely. I'm cleaning up all of the walnut I bought to see if there is enough to make the legs and base from walnut rather than cherry. I really should start on the build blog tonight so I quit throwing random, non-swap comments on here.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

You have any unique touches planned for the bench Earl?


----------



## Lazyman

My progress picture has been sent.


----------



## GR8HUNTER

> You have any unique touches planned for the bench Earl?
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


NO just build one for 25 jocks LOL :<)))))))))


----------



## DavePolaschek

> My progress picture has been sent.
> 
> - Lazyman


Got the email. Which leaves Grant as tail-end Charlie. Weird!

Started the morning roughing a spoon and a birb on the bandsaw, but now I have to fix the deadbolt on the garage service door. It jammed up when we went on our morning walkies, perhaps because of the .02 inch of rain that fell overnight. :-/


----------



## jeffswildwood

> I have family down there. No need to drive anywhere. My dad lives about 15 minutes West of Riverside, where I grew up.
> 
> - DevinT





> Problem is my dad doesn't have a truck. My Uncle does, but I don't know how much I can ask of family. Are we talking* hauling, temporary storing, wrapping, packing, and shipping*, might need a pretty good bribe.
> 
> - DevinT


Devin, that is *exactly* what it would involve. It would be a *lot* of work and coordination. More then I can ask anyone to do. Even though I would include a good bribe.  With the weight of that rack, it would have to be tightly boxed in wood to prevent destruction on the shipping trip. That would be a task for you by itself. Sometimes you find a great deal but just have to let it pass. I do appreciate the offering. I told my wife about it and she said she wants to go, a road trip vacation with lots of stopping and touring along the way. I don't think it's going to happen.


----------



## DevinT

Scary sharp got me! I immediately applied pressure, ran (literally) to the sink, rinsed the wound, and wrapped it as fast as i possibly could. Cut was extremely clean. Didn't even hurt. Still doesn't hurt. Hopefully won't leave a scar and closes on its own and doesn't get infected.

Was just wiping off the blade and the burr caught the blue towel and my finger kept going but the towel stopped. Finger slid right over the blade and I immediately knew what happened and jumped into action.

I need a cigarette now. I also need to be more careful. Lifetime of sharpening knives and this is only the 2nd time I've ever cut myself sharpening.

I have to be more careful.


----------



## EricFai

Need to watch out those things bit. Must be the shop dog was sleeping on the job. Hope it gets better.


----------



## Keebler1

Speaking of sharpening. Anyone near Mckinney TX have the tools to sharpen a paper cutter blade? The one at church is getting old and I don't have anything to do it. There isn't much of a bevel on it that I can tell.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Just get a whetstone, Keebs. Draw along the edge at the same angle as the existing bevel. And make sure you keep your fingers clear of the sharp bits.

Devin, let's be careful out there. Too many woodworkers with too few fingers already. Good thing is, many of us have CA glue on hand, which is nice instant stitches.


----------



## DevinT

Good to know about CA glue


----------



## DavePolaschek

Normal CA glue will, however, sting like the dickens. But it's good stitches and will dissolve to nothing eventually. The medical grade stuff doesn't have the nasties that make it sting.


----------



## EricFai

There's always ducktape.


----------



## GrantA

Did y'all expect anything more from me? I have a reputation to uphold!
Pics sent, it's progress-ish ;-p

Keebler is the blade curved? I'd say draw filing would be your best bet


----------



## MikeB_UK

FYI - don't put a dressing on if you use CA glue - reacts with cotton/wool etc, gets V hot.

You can also get a medical grade one that has more flex to it - probably still causes cancer in California though ;-)


----------



## Keebler1

Grant yes it is a curved blade. Mike the oxygen in the air causes cancer according to california


----------



## EricFai

Tote shaped, for the larger hands, going by the past comments posted. Next is the fore handle, so it is time for some lathe work, this is going to be fun.


----------



## Lazyman

I have a bottle of New Skin liquid bandage. Much easier to remove later than CA but I have a box of heavy duty band aids in the shop for those random nicks to the finger tips. Band aids do a better job of stopping the bleeding by putting pressure on the cut. When I pull out my carving gouges, the box of band aids come out too because blood is inevitable, though I have started using kevlar gloves when carving. I should probably have a tube of Neosporin out there too.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Grant yes it is a curved blade.
> 
> - Keebler1


Do you have scythe stones over there? kinda designed for curved blades.
Anything that will sharpen anything will work fine though :-O



> Mike the oxygen in the air causes cancer according to california


They may be onto something, it definately causes rust.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> When I pull out my carving gouges, the box of band aids come out too because blood is inevitable, though I have started using kevlar gloves when carving. I should probably have a tube of Neosporin out there too.
> 
> - Lazyman


I'm not sure if I'm too old or too inexperienced at carving, but my first thougt is, if you're cutting yourself your doing it wrong (or doing it emo). Cut myself a fair bit over the years, but if it happens everytime maybe take up pottery? ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

Hah! Those gouges are so sharp that you just have to wave them near a finger to cut yourself.


----------



## MikeB_UK

You're waving them in the wrong direction 

Pointy end out.
Maybe the full batman suit instead of just the gloves.


----------



## GrantA

Damn Mike is on it today! Haha 
I've been crazy busy, got an ambrosia maple desk top glued up and some giant half lapped frames built. 
















The frames are 128×64ea. They'll join forces inside a building tomorrow and get a 12×12ft canvas painting wrapped around em. There was not a 12ft doorway to bring it through 
They might look small but that's a rockwell 12/14 not a unisaw it's a beast!


----------



## DevinT

Despite the injury, got to laminating the core which is all clamped up right now. Switched the Shaper Workstation from horizontal to vertical mode for next phase, which involves working on the laminated pieces.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> I should probably have a tube of Neosporin out there too.


Isn't that what the medicinal whiskey is for?

Got a progress photo from Grant. He has successfully dimensioned a piece of something. Nice work, buddy. Lower case p, indeed. ;-)


----------



## DevinT

Hey, dimensioning can be hard


----------



## Keebler1

Devin Only for hand tool users. Those with power tools just flip a switch and let the machine take over lol


----------



## EricFai

There's nothing wrong with old school building. Currently I am a little limited, no table saw. But the band saw works, along with the chisel's.

Besides it has a tendency to prefect the craftsman, or the craftswoman.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Names will get sent out tomorrow, hopefully before lunchtime MDT. I was going to do it tonight, but had some yard work.


----------



## EricFai

That yard work creeps up on all of us. Along with the pool maintenance, which I have been doing in-between.


----------



## GrantA

Yeah I mowed a little of the backyard yesterday (looks better around the pool at least) then the mower started sputtering, there's a vacuum /vent hose from the gas tank to what looks to be an evaporative emission system type canister (fuel injected deere, must be built for California) and some of Kenny's friends decided to gnaw through it. Guess they've been getting high off it 
So add that to the list. And go get more acid for the pool.

Maybe I'll dimension something else today and post a teaser ;-)


----------



## EarlS

Even with power tools, dimensioning can take a while. I definitely got the worst end of the deal with that walnut I picked up a couple of weeks ago. 60% waste and I haven't got the "usable boards planed or jointed, let alone cutting off the end cracks. The walnut that is usable is very nice, reds, purples, lots of color and grain.

Tony - The bench is one project where I won't be making enough to share.

Dave K - there will be some embellishments once I get the basics figure out. The 8" section has a slight twist that will need some attention. How do you flatten out something that is 4-1/4" thick? I have a couple ideas, none that I really like. I think I might just use a piece of 2" aluminum angle under the top and screw it into the side stretcher.

While planing the walnut I "discovered" 2 nails, which led to replacing the planer blades on the DW735. I was super careful not to get my fingers anywhere near the edges. Last time I flipped them, I managed to draw some blood and used a couple drops of CA. Once bitten twice shy.


----------



## Keebler1

Earl if any of the waste is big enough you could sell that walnut as pen blanks especially if it has nice figure or color assuming it isn't all sawdust by now. Only need 2.5" x 3/4" to make a Sierra style pen


----------



## EarlS

I hadn't considered keeping stuff that I could put in a box and send to LJ's that might be interested. Looks like I might be doing a bit of garbage can reclamation, not to be confused with dumpster diving.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Names have been sent out. If you didn't receive the name of your recipient at the email address you gave me, check your spam folder.

I screwed up and sent a few of them from my personal address rather than the swap address. I can only blame a lack of caffeine. Or brain damage. Or fat fingers. Or iOS. Well, in any case, they should be in your inbox.

If you got Kenny's name, please send it to Mos. Or vice-versa.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Ooh, I've received a box of Earl's "scraps" in the past. If you have a chance, get him to send one to you. Earl makes the *BEST* scraps!

Sorry, buddy. The cat's out of the bag.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> The 8" section has a slight twist that will need some attention. How do you flatten out something that is 4-1/4" thick? I have a couple ideas, none that I really like. I think I might just use a piece of 2" aluminum angle under the top and screw it into the side stretcher.
> 
> - EarlS


No on the stretcher. A hand plane can get the twist out but I know you're a power tool guy so you could make a router sled for it and it'll work great. Probably how you were going to flatten the tops to be coplanar in the end anyway?

I figured you would have some cool embellishments. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

How long are your folks staying? Your dad having fun with the build?


----------



## doubleG469

Big shout and thanks to Nathan and Duck for the intellectual conversation and keeping me from making the wrong cuts (several times) on the plane.

Now that we have names (to be kept secret) I know I am going to really have to step up my game to impress my recipient. Maybe I'll just send cash or two by fours, those seem to be worth more than gold these days.


----------



## Lazyman

I guess Gary and I should have asked to swap with each other. That way we could then meet out at Ducks place for the exchange so that our collective disappointment could be drowned out by loud noises and beer while we make sure that Duck's target tree stays dead.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Sorry, Nathan. I thought about just assigning you two to each other, but then you were working together Saturday, so maybe there won't be any surprises. You could still do a reveal party at Duck's, though.

The crazy thing about lumber prices is that the ipe 2×4s I scored for cheap (because I picked through the pile and took all of the ones other people had been passing over because of knots and such) are now cheaper than SPF 2×4s at the Homer Depot. And from the sound of it, hardwood prices haven't really shot up much lately.

Got a neighbor who's waiting on a permit for a shop, and he figures every day he waits on the permit ends up costing him somewhere between $100 and $1000 in additional lumber costs for just the framing.


----------



## Lazyman

Probably more fun this way. This way we can help each other and still be surprised at the reveal.


----------



## Woodmaster1

Sent swap today no sense in procrastinating. Now to my next project opening the pool temperature is going from the 50's and 60's to the 80's at the end of the week. My grandson ask me this morning when the pool will be open.


----------



## EarlS

> No on the stretcher. A hand plane can get the twist out but I know you're a power tool guy so you could make a router sled for it and it'll work great. Probably how you were going to flatten the tops to be coplanar in the end anyway?
> 
> I figured you would have some cool embellishments. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
> 
> How long are your folks staying? Your dad having fun with the build?
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


The twist is almost 1/2" so it will take some effort to get it out. I thought about a router sled, or maybe attaching a straight edge piece to the side of the boards and running it through the planer until one side is flat, then flipping it over and cleaning the other side up. The router sled will probably be the way I get things co-planar, clamp the sled sides to the top and run the router over the top.

Folks left last week, but not before Dad showed me all of the lathe parts and pieces, then wanted to show me how the 2 speed motor (he got off an air conditioner) worked. He managed to get both hot wires stuck into the extension cord and got a nice arc flash that ruined the female end of the cord. The lathe is going to be a bit of a project. It is a bit more "rustic" than I was expecting and there will be quite a learning curve with the motor and pulleys.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Bummer on the lathe man. Deal with that when you're done with the bench. I'm looking forward to the bench. I'll have turning tools ready for you whenever you're ready if you're still going with mine so no rush there. Did you start a bench blog we can follow?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Heh! Running a swap has its moments. The person who's sending to Grant said:



> Great. Now I'm required to have a minimum 30lb project to ship and include cast-iron components at least 80 years old.


You've got a rep there, buddy! I suggested that person make a plane out of balsa just to make sure you have both ends of the spectrum covered.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Just need to nail a cord with a plug to it and you'll be set. Grant doesn't know how to use a hand plane anyway. Lol


----------



## DevinT

Teaser


----------



## Keebler1

2 issues Devin. Your shop is way too clean and there is a car in your shop lol


----------



## HokieKen

That's not a car Keebler. That's a Fiat or something like that ;-)


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Sent swap today no sense in procrastinating.


Got our first *S* already.

Teaser:


----------



## GrantA

Haha funny stuff here, anybody who needs a label for fedex or a freight shipment setup just holler!

I have been wanting one of these for a while and finally won one on eBay the other day, just got this notification!


----------



## EarlS

> That s not a car Keebler. That s a Fiat or something like that ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


It looks like a washer/dryer combo and a freezer too. Definitely CA, where a square foot of dirt costs more than 2×4's.


----------



## DevinT

You would not be wrong. There's a plot of land for sale down the street from me. $495k for 4822 square feet. That puts it at about $102 for a square foot of dirt.


----------



## EarlS

> You would not be wrong. There s a plot of land for sale down the street from me. $495k for 4822 square feet. That puts it at about $102 for a square foot of dirt.
> 
> - DevinT


That's more than we paid for a 4000 sqft house AND a 1/2 acre lot. We thought the lot was expensive at $50,000.


----------



## DevinT

Teaser. Plane parts are back from the manufacturer.


----------



## HokieKen

Very cool Devin! Anyone that can read the setup and run times on those will quickly understand why buying in bulk drives the per-part cost so low. You're paying for that setup time…


----------



## DavePolaschek

That's why I fled CA back in 1996. Even then, housing was too expensive. The rent on a <500sf 1BR apartment in Silicon Valley was more than a mortgage on a 1300sf house, a car payment (on a 4wd suv), and all expenses back in MN.

Teaser:









Sometimes a guy just has to make his own nuts.


----------



## HokieKen

Sometimes that guy's nuts are ugly…

;-)


----------



## DevinT

Dave, awesome! Looks like brass with 1/4-20.

On the topic of rents, my in-laws that live in Indiana pay $600/mo for a house bigger than ours with a yard, while we pay 4x that (and we're lucky, because we bought in the depth of the recession in 2010, when you had to give bloodwork to buy a house because the lending market was so strict following the crash of the sup-prime mortgage market-which seems like eons ago now).


----------



## GrantA

Dave, buddy, pal, what is a'goin on there?!


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Looks like brass with 1/4-20.


Remember, it's a plane so 7/32, not 1/4.

Kenny, they may be ugly now, but wait'll I polish them up good.


----------



## duckmilk

> I guess Gary and I should have asked to swap with each other. That way we could then meet out at Ducks place for the exchange so that our collective disappointment could be drowned out by loud noises and beer while we make sure that Duck s target tree stays dead.
> 
> - Lazyman


That would be awesome! Also, a few more bullet holes in that tree may save me from having to eventually cut it down. I might even let you guys shoot my granddad's 1907 Colt 45 revolver. Gotta find more ammo for it though, last time I found some it was $100 for a box of 50, ouch.


----------



## GrantA

This thing is sweet! Can't wait to use it with a sharp iron. Is that the right term? I believe it's a type 4 from 1892-1895


----------



## EricFai

Everyone is chatting today.

Looks like Devin has a VW Bug parked there, but no eye lashes on it.

Balsa and tin would be an interesting build, Shure would save on shipping criss country. Of course with the gasoline issues here in the Southeast, shipping might get delayed. I'll have to keep an eye on that

An old Colt would be fun to shoot, but man at $2 a shot, that gets expensive. But it is a good shooting pistol. I always liked it still looking for one to purchase.

As for those pool supplies, they are hard to find locally. Wally World shelves were empty a few days ago. And the chlorine tables may be a rare sight this year. Problems at the plant last fall.


----------



## Woodmaster1

> Everyone is chatting today.
> 
> Looks like Devin has a VW Bug parked there, but no eye lashes on it.
> 
> Balsa and tin would be an interesting build, Shure would save on shipping criss country. Of course with the gasoline issues here in the Southeast, shipping might get delayed. I ll have to keep an eye on that
> 
> An old Colt would be fun to shoot, but man at $2 a shot, that gets expensive. But it is a good shooting pistol. I always liked it still looking for one to purchase.
> 
> As for those pool supplies, they are hard to find locally. Wally World shelves were empty a few days ago. And the chlorine tables may be a rare sight this year. Problems at the plant last fall.
> 
> - Eric


Yes the HTH plant that manufactures chlorine in Ohio burnt to the ground. My supplier uses a different brand and your only allowed 1 bucket at a time. So a trip to the store tomorrow is on tap. Walmart uses hth brand so they will be short on supply. My hardware store told me he could only get preorders and they were gone.


----------



## Keebler1

Duck if that 45 uses 45colt ammo like my judge have Nathan or Gary let me know when they're going to n shooting they can swing by the church and pick some up. I have a bunch from a bulk buy years ago and I haven't shot it in years


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Woodmaster,

I converted my pool to a salt pool so it makes it's own chlorine these days. Might be worth it for you to look into.


----------



## EricFai

Dave, 
I have thought about the salt pool here. Need to weight out all my options with that.

The I purchased 4 years ago had the pool (above ground) first couple of years great keeping it balanced. Struggled last year. This year it all went south. Of course a late closing last year didn't help matters. Currently it's green and I have been adding chemicals to get everything back in check, along with a shock every other day. I think I have everything off the bottom now. And I increased the hardness tonight, see where that get me.

I need a new cholinator, and I think I need to replace the sand in the filter. I read it's only good for 3-5 years. Bad thing is, I have to cut the pipes, no unions.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Living in AZ we done really "close the pool" we just keep it up all winter until it's time to swim again. The chlorine generator does the majority of my work. I also have something that works with the chlorine generator that adds acid to the pool every hour while the pump is running so my numbers are generally pretty good with very little effort. It's not a cheap option unless you calculate time. Can't make more time but you can make more money. That's how I look at most things.


----------



## Mosquito

Awesome Grant, that is probably my favorite type of Stanley router, just because the script logo is my favorite, and it seems to go especially well on the router planes.

Still though, I'd rather have a Preston style router plane ;-) (Which is probably why I have 2, and may end up getting a 3rd. It's only a problem if my wife finds out… until then it's just fun)


----------



## GrantA

We had our pool built last fall and have kept it up through the winter, I have the salt chlorinator and mostly have just had to add acid. I'll have to look into the automatic acid deal!


----------



## duckmilk

That is a cool router Grant. Like Mos, I really like the logo.

Keebs, my 45 model is a few years after they switched to smokeless powder. It takes a special kind of powder that is designed for the older metals. Thanks for the offer. I'll probably just go ahead and order another box since I won't be shooting it much anyway. It is questionable when or if the prices will drop.

We swim in our pond or the lake. Little fishes nibbling on us are kinda cool.
BTW, I heard the lake is going to be having a national bass fishing tournament sometime this year.


----------



## EricFai

Duckmilk, I grew up on a lake up north, first ones to have the dock in and a cold swim following, spring feed lake.

The pool is nice, when it's clear. Quick dip on those hot days, and at times just floating around.


----------



## DevinT

Eric, not a VW bug but a Fiat 500C.


----------



## drsurfrat

I have a blackpowder Old Army (Ruger) I don't know what it costs to shoot anymore, I can't find Pyrodex… At least I don't go through ammo very fast.


----------



## HokieKen

Pyrodex is AWOL too Mike? Sheesh. I have a muzzleloader too and was thinking recently I should probably replace my powder since it's several years old now and is stored in the safe in my basement. Guess I'll just keep the desiccant in my safe fresh and hope for the best…

Ammo in general is still nearly impossible to find around here. Anytime I see a box of .380 or 9mm I grab it but I don't grab them often. The line at Gander Mountain on Tuesday evening (when they get their ammo rations) reminds me of a bunch of orphans lining up for porridge in a Dickens novel.


----------



## bndawgs

I picked up another 1k of 9mm the other week. Came out to .60/round shipped. Figure if I add that to the 1k at .35/round from Jan, then it doesn't hurt as much


----------



## GrantA

Kenny as long as it stays dry you'll be fine. About the only way to go right now is to order bulk online. 500-1000 rds at a time. Hard to swallow at nearly double what it should cost but that's where we are at the moment.
Cheap 5.56 ammo is running $0.75-$1.00/rd and 9mm about $0.50-$0.75


----------



## doubleG469

I got my last 1K of 9mm for 0.25 per and I am thankful I am a decent shot and not burning it up at the range.

Although it sounds like I may be taking a box down to Ducks.


----------



## doubleG469

Side question, does anyone here have the Laguna fusion f1 or f2 table saws? If so what are your thoughts?


----------



## EricFai

Gary, I was looking into them a few months ago. At that time the lead was about 4 months. They seem like a decent saw. Not sure if I want to pull the trigger on the cost.

I found an old Craftsman on CL last weekend, trying to hook up with the guy this weekend. Price is right, and it appears to be built prior to the 80's.


----------



## Keebler1

The people who have them in a Facebook group I'm in seem to like them. I'll ask tonight their thoughts


----------



## Keebler1

Gary here are a couple responses I got.


----------



## doubleG469

Thanks Keebler, I think that really helps.


----------



## Lazyman

> Looks like brass with 1/4-20.
> 
> Remember, it's a plane so 7/32, not 1/4.
> 
> Kenny, they may be ugly now, but wait'll I polish them up good.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Are you going to use AZ Shine to polish? I am sure that Dave K. will be glad to send you some.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

It's definitely coming into the time of year where AZ polish is abundant.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thanks, guys! Even though we had fog/dew this morning, and it was down to 37 or so, it's supposed to be sunny and get warm enough today that I can probably get some high altitude NM shine.


----------



## Keebler1

Gary just had a response someone said his friend ordered one and it was supposed to be delivered this month but just got an email it's been pushed out to September. Not sure if it was th F1 or F2. If you order a saw and need to use a table saw feel free to holler at me. You can swing by and use mine on Saturdays usually about 1500 or so is when I leave the church but can meet you earlier if I have a heads up


----------



## doubleG469

Mark me a Received - just got my swap item in and alright alright alright.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Cool, Gary!

One pickup load of brush, and two of cholla hauled to the community dumpster today. I got stabbed through my heavy leather work gloves three times. But I've got eight big chunks of big cholla trunk or stumps set aside to dry some more. And a five gallon bucket mostly full of smaller canes.

Plus a few of the plane parts that needed painting got their second coat of enamel today. Now it's BLT time. Woohoo!


----------



## Keebler1

BLT that's beer with a side of tomato and lettuce right


----------



## DavePolaschek

Nope. We're still working on solving Texas' wild boar problem.


----------



## GrantA

Any of y'all need a 45° chamfer or 1/4" roundover/beading bit? 
I ended up with 5 of each of these, will mail the cheapest way. I'm in them at $13.50ea. I helped out a local supplier who got stuck with them.
Georgia polish comes free as always


----------



## DevinT

Got 3 thin coats of paint on one part. Got 2 thin coats of enamel on another (I see you Dave). Got more cuts done and tested the feeds and speeds on the ball router. Teaser:










Grant, I could use a chamfer bit. Already have roundover bits galore.


----------



## EricFai

Tote fitted to body, front handle turned. New wood for me to work with, turned great, nice easy cuts and smooth as a baby's bottom. No sanding.










Still need to fine tune the fit to the body.

As Devin would say teaser!


----------



## DevinT

Well, today ended in utter failure. Took a cut too aggressively and the tape came loose, but CNC kept going. By the time I had realized there was nothing I could do to fix the part. Looks like it's back to dimensioning for me.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Sorry, Devin. Some days you're the dog, and some days you're the hydrant.

Done carving birbs for a few days. I've got a cyst in my index finger where I push the back of the knife blade. Oops. Going to have to find a new pastime while waiting for the sun to set.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Devin,
Oof!
Been there.


----------



## DevinT

I reran the same pattern with a less aggressive approach on the finishing pass and also rotated my spoilboard and got a clean result.

Good thing I resawed that board in the beginning to save lumber. Going to have to thickness and flatten both sides and smooth one side so I have enough lumber to finish the 6th piece (out of 7 total required to build the plane).

Paint will be dry on another piece tomorrow, which I have to put back into CNC to fix a mistake (there have been many; most of which have been hidden using various techniques). Then after it is fixed it has to go back to paint.

Next one I build will be much faster with fewer mistakes (this is what I tell myself).


----------



## DevinT

At least I get to use my freshly sharpened blades which should make the flattening and smoothing go a lot easier. Though I may touch them up a little more before then since practicing my honing technique some modern on a warped blade that won't mate cleanly with its chip breaker. I was able to get that thing extremely sharp.


----------



## JohnMcClure

If I get the chance today I'll make the final piece of my plane, and possibly glue up. Maybe get started on a bonus item too.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Looks like it's supposed to be a beautiful day, which may mean cutting and hauling another truckload of brush. With any luck, other neighbors had the same idea yesterday and have already filled the community dumpster so we'll have to wait… we'll see.

Shop plans for the day were mostly a third coat of paint on those parts that need painting, and some shop cleanup and organizing, so either way is okay, I guess. I planned poorly, as the next assembly steps require the paint be on and dry so I can fit to the final measurements.

There's a "slab and beam" lumber mill that's about 3 miles from me as the crow flies, but more like 15 miles by road that I'm pondering visiting this afternoon. See if maybe they'll sell me offcuts that might be useful as bowl blanks…


----------



## GR8HUNTER

> Looks like it's supposed to be a beautiful day, which may mean cutting and hauling another truckload of brush.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


HOW much brush is there ? your retired so go have some shop time fun LOL :<)))


----------



## doubleG469

> Looks like it's supposed to be a beautiful day, which may mean cutting and hauling another truckload of brush.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek
> 
> HOW much brush is there ? your retired so go have some shop time fun LOL :<)))
> 
> - GR8HUNTER


It's New Mexico it's all brush.. LOL


----------



## HokieKen

In my experience, everything west of about Iowa and south of about Oregon is either brush, dirt, or rock until you hit California. And hot. Holy crap is it hot. And if you say "yeah but it's a dry heat" I'll throat punch you. It's still friggin hot.


----------



## MikeB_UK

It happens Devin, I cunningly took measurements off a similar type of plane and found out it was a couple of inches too short for the hardware I had when I came to test fit.

Dave, maybe a leather finger guard would help after the cyst goes away?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Yeah, Tony. As Gary points out, it's all brush.

But it's a dry heat, Kenny.  We actually moved here as much to get away from Minnesota summers as winters. Dew points in the 70s just suck the proverbial ass.

Mike, I think the problem is mostly that I've been using a "utility" knife, rather than a carving knife, and the blade is long enough that I end up "choking up on it" and everything will be fine if I use a more normal carving knife.


----------



## Mosquito

But at least the MN winters are a dry cold Dave


----------



## HokieKen

Why are you using a utility knife with all those Moraknivs you have laying around Dave???

Humidity does suck. But I'm not sure if it's worse to have it like Florida or lack it like Arizona. It's basically choosing between feeling greasy all over or having your lips feel like leather and your nose perpetually full of boogers.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Why are you using a utility knife with all those Moraknivs you have laying around Dave???


It's a utility length Morakniv, Kenny. The Basic which is about half the price of the carving knife, and even less for last year's colors bought on clearance.

I bought a few of these and find they're good carving knives, especially early on when I'm wasting away a lot of material.

I figured, worst case, I can take the cheaper knives and grind them down to a smaller blade. Might still do that, but I'm also finding that as my control improves, using the larger knife for carving works pretty well. Except for me holding it wrong.

As for humidity, if you like spending half the year nestled snugly in Satan's sweaty butt-crack, more power to you. Me, I prefer the dry. As long as I'm drinking enough fluids (now there's a challenge!), it's a lot more comfortable.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> As for humidity, if you like spending half the year nestled snugly in Satan's sweaty butt-crack, more power to you. ...
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


I'm pretty sure I drove past Satan's Sweaty Butt-Crack somewhere between Vegas and the Grand Canyon.


----------



## drsurfrat

It wouldn't have been sweaty, more a chafed leathery…

Give me bone-dry over muggy every time. After college, I road tripped mid summer to Vegas with 2 friends in a '68 Camaro with no AC. It was so hot is was more 'comfortable' with the windows up than the furnace blast coming in. We went through 8 gallons of Gatorade and never had to stop to pee. Like so many other examples, college = stupid.


----------



## Lazyman

Teaser time.

Spent a little time scary sharpening because I just could not get the edge I wanted on my Proedge. It made all the difference. Gonna have to figure out what I am doing wrong with the Proedge.










And then the stress test. Scrubbed and smoothed some live oak I have drying in my shop. Live oak is one step away from granite. Very wavy and dense.










I might need to ship this before I decide to keep it for myself. What swap?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Not a teaser, making boards from pallets for a birdhouse for my neighbor. No hurry, since nesting season for this year is already happening, but I don't need any of these clamps for the plane work, and I've got to get wider boards at some point.










Probably do another batch of six tomorrow. And Saturday. And Sunday. Then I'll go on a flattening spree at some point.

The hardware store in our neighborhood has a couple dozen pallets stacked up again, so I figure I should go get another truckload of free lumber soon.


----------



## DevinT

I surfaced one side of the previously resawn lumber and discovered a large crack that was hiding beneath the surface. So it was off to the lumber yard to pick up some more walnut to finish off the prototype.










About 5x what I needed, but rather have too much than too little.


----------



## duckmilk

> In my experience, everything west of about Iowa and south of about Oregon is either brush, dirt, or rock until you hit California. And hot. Holy crap is it hot. And if you say "yeah but it s a dry heat" I ll throat punch you. It s still friggin hot.
> 
> - HokieKen


When I worked for the forest service in the '70s the *worst* fires I fought were the brush fires in S California. Much more so than in AZ or NM. Actually, I like where I live now, but it gets hotter than where I grew up in S New Mexico, mostly due to the 5000 ft altitude difference, humidity here just adds to the misery.

I would prefer you to arm punch me, then we'll have a couple (or more) beers )) (That's an invitation my friend)

Edit: Why not join Gary and Nathan at my place for the reveal? We can shoot more bullets in the dead tree and make it deader. I see 3 buzzards roosting on the few remaining limbs now.


----------



## duckmilk

> Next one I build will be much faster with fewer mistakes (this is what I tell myself).
> 
> - DevinT


Hehe, that's the same thing I keep telling myself ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

I can handle the heat as long as there's beer and guns Duck. Hell beer and guns are about the only things keeping me sane (or at least what passes for sane in my mind) anyway ;-)

I will say that I think I hit the tail end of tolerable weather in AZ last week. It hit in the 90s in the heat of the day but about an hour after sun down it was to cool to sit outside without a jacket. That was at the Grand Canyon. When we hit Pheonix about 10 am on Sunday to fly back home and it was already ninety-something, I knew such environments were not for me.

And now it's supposed to be in the 90s here this weekend. Yippee. And it won't be a dry heat either.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Come on back Kenny. It'll be 84 Saturday here.


----------



## duckmilk

Yep, cold mornings, hot days and cool nights. We didn't have AC in the house at the ranch, just opened the windows and let the breeze flow through. We were at 5600' altitude though. We did get snow in the winter at that altitude.


----------



## HokieKen

Figures Dave.

Other Dave - I dunno about their utility knives but these have become by far my most-used whittling knives. I use a selection of Flexcut knives for small stuff and detail work but these are what's in hand about 90% of the time on most projects.


----------



## EricFai

Getting down to the end of the build, some sanding, glue it up and a finish. Now I can start in on the little bonus item that I have idea for.

With that being said, I can finish up before the ship date. I probably should check to see what the shipping times are though. Seems like stuff is getting a little slower.

I am with you Kenny, next 10 days getting hotter, they even said close to 100 towards the end of next week.

That southwest heat, takes your breath away. Flew into Phoenix some years back, stepped off the plane and it was like 106 at midnight, glad it was only a layover.


----------



## Lazyman

We're actually renting a big house in Alpine, AZ next month. Sort of a college reunion with a bunch of college friends now that we are all vaccinated. We meet up somewhere every summer but we had to skip last year. It should be considerably cooler there than Phoenix or Tuscon. We'll probably head up to Sedona or the Grand Canyon while we are out there.


----------



## MikeB_UK

So, I don't get many exotics, and was looking for something to use as a strike button.

After digging around I came up with the following that passed the highly scientific test of being whacked with a peening hammer without denting.

Any clue what I've got here?
From left to right, in technical terms
Pink Ivory
Some reddish brown wood
Some wood with a bit of a green tint (I like the look of this one, may get more if I find out what it is)
Some brown wood


----------



## Keebler1

Could the wood you want to get more of be zebrawood? Not sure as I've only seen it in pictures


----------



## HokieKen

Last two might be Bocote and Bubinga Mike.


----------



## jeffswildwood

I can't identify any of them but they sure are pretty!


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Could the wood you want to get more of be zebrawood? Not sure as I ve only seen it in pictures
> 
> - Keebler1


Cheers Keebler
Definitely not zebrawood though , had a play with that once and this is less splintery (and greener)



> Last two might be Bocote and Bubinga Mike.
> 
> - HokieKen


Cheers Kenny
Bocote looks right and the other does look like rosewood now you mention it.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Mike, I'm crap for identifying wood remotely, but I use the wood database to see if my guesses are correct for stuff I have in hand.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

+1 Green cast with black/white is Bocote

The end stick looks like Goncalo Alves or Tigerwood. Brown with black steaks. Super dense, hard to damage with hammer. If it has pink tone, might be Pau Rosa.

If red colored wood is a rosewood, the smell will give it away. Even fake rosewood has a scent.
If find streaks of purple/black in red, then might be Cocobolo or Kingwood?

End grain is going to help with differentiation.


----------



## EarlS

pink ivory, cocobolo, bocote, brown ebony

take a look at Bell Forest Products species list


----------



## Keebler1

That's cheating Earl


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Mike, I'm crap for identifying wood remotely, but I use the wood database to see if my guesses are correct for stuff I have in hand.
> - Dave Polaschek


Yeah, that's what I use, like most things it's great if you already know what you're looking for ;-)



> +1 Green cast with black/white is Bocote
> 
> The end stick looks like Goncalo Alves or Tigerwood. Brown with black steaks. Super dense, hard to damage with hammer. If it has pink tone, might be Pau Rosa.
> 
> If red colored wood is a rosewood, the smell will give it away. Even fake rosewood has a scent.
> If find streaks of purple/black in red, then might be Cocobolo or Kingwood?
> 
> End grain is going to help with differentiation.
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


Too uniform for Goncalo Alves, doesn't look right for pau rosa



> pink ivory, cocobolo, bocote, brown ebony
> 
> take a look at Bell Forest Products species list
> 
> - EarlS


cocobola is a possible
not brown ebony, its slightly lighter than the pink ivory.

So, looks like these are the most likely
Pink Ivory
Cocobolo
Bocote
Bubinga

Cheers folks


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## EarlS

The right side piece looks too brown to be bubinga. I'm not seeing the red tones that bubinga seems to have. I suggested brown ebony because it looks remarkably similar to a piece I got from Bell Forest a while back.

Tell ya what, send them to me, I'll do some extensive research into how they look when made into something, then I will report back to you.


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## HokieKen

I just finished up the build I was gonna use for the swap. Too bad I dropped out I guess!









Just kidding, I didn't make that ;-p


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## KelleyCrafts

Too much brass for you Kenny.


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## DavePolaschek

Not enough Buck Rogers, too much Captain Nemo, Kenny.

This morning? Swap the two motorcycles around in the garage so the BMW can go to the dealer next week. It's lonely for a proper cherman computerapparat to talk to, so the "service" light is on.

Also got my order of four cases of Coca-Cola de Mexico delivered to last me until August or so.

And continued turning some pallet-wood into wider pieces. I'm actually getting the lumber-storage and motorcycle-garage side of the shop organized a little.










Enough puttering around. Time to make some progress on the plane so I'm not shipping after Grant does. ;-)


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## DevinT

Got some time this morning to play around with lever cap design


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## DevinT

Kenny, what on Earth is that? Looks like it was made for a king


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## MikeB_UK

Lucky you dropped out kenny, unlikely you'd have got someone who had that extra tiny hand for the 2nd front knob.


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## MikeB_UK

Everytime I play with this thing I want to make more, weirdly addictive


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## MikeB_UK

> The right side piece looks too brown to be bubinga. I m not seeing the red tones that bubinga seems to have. I suggested brown ebony because it looks remarkably similar to a piece I got from Bell Forest a while back.


I was thinking one of the mahogony cheapo types to start with, grain is about right for a rosewood though, and there seems to be a fair range of colour for bubinga using an in depth 2 minute google image search.
Always to be happy to be wrong of course 



> Tell ya what, send them to me, I ll do some extensive research into how they look when made into something, then I will report back to you.
> 
> - EarlS


Gonna be a fairly small something, they seem to be slightly undersize pen blanks, I've got 3 of them brown wood ones for some reason though, given the shipping across the pond at the minute I reckon $40 should nearly cover it ;-)


----------



## Keebler1

This is internal part to woodcraft pump n grind. Should I use it with this crack or buy a new one?


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## DevinT

Got the lever cap designed. There is more dimensioning in my future. Thankfully not much as it's a rather small piece just under 3" x 2"


----------



## Keebler1

Not sure what kind of wood this is. I've had the log in my shop for about 1.5 years now. I just cut this piece off the rest of the log. Friend wants a pen holder but doesn't want it turned wants more of a natural look. Plan to sand and drill holes in the top for the pens and finish with poly or Danish Oil. Moisture meter on hardwood setting reading mid teens on top and 35% on bottom where I just cut it. On softwood setting its reading mid teens to 22% and around 45-50% on bottom where I just cut it. It's gonna be a few more weeks to a month till I can get the rest of the bark off and finish it. There's already a crack running down the side. Do I need to put anything on the ends where I cut it till I can finish it? How much longer should I let it sit?


----------



## Lazyman

The cracks are already running end to end so I think there is really nothing you can do to prevent cracking at this point, especially since the pith is still in the log. Plus, as it is it may take several weeks for it to dry and sealing the end will just slow down the drying. What I would probably do is try to speed up the drying in the microwave, let it crack and fill.


----------



## HokieKen

Doing some beer swap prep work. There's a new beer on the block. It tastes fine. And only fine. But it's pretty!!!


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny, what on Earth is that? Looks like it was made for a king
> 
> - DevinT


No clue. Just stumbled on the pic online. Couldn't find any source info. Dave's right, to brassy for me ;-)


----------



## EricFai

In search of a table saw, found an old Craftsman, Ca: 1954 or so $100 (going to take a bit more research) but it sings, I would say 1/3 of the decibel of the last one. Very little rust, do a tune-up and I should have a fine saw.

Found a few other things to, Bit & Brace and 45 bits, all for the price of $50. (45 bits)










Not a bad day, now I can start back with projects, once I finish up the plane swap.

Thinking about it should have bought the other 6 or so bit & braces, they were only $10 each.


----------



## HokieKen

Very nice haul Eric. I need a better set of auger bits but can never convince myself to buy them. It's kinda like ripping and resawing, I just don't see drilling big holes being something I'm ever gonna stop burning electrons for ;-)


----------



## DevinT

I don't think that is brass. Looks like gold to me.


----------



## HokieKen

Gold is too brassy for me.


----------



## EricFai

Kenny, if I get my butt in gear and start on the boat building, those will come in handy.


----------



## duckmilk

Nice haul Eric.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Nice, Eric! I got tired of trying to find a good set of old auger bits and bought an almost-complete set from TFWW (they don't sell 11/16, 13/16 or 15/16, and I've needed each of those at least once since getting the Fisch bits). Plus it took more than 6 months to get the half-inch.

Spent yesterday morning making good progress on the plane before hitting a piece where tolerances are such that I needed a break. Hopefully this morning I can finish that up without having to toss it and try a second time. Sneaking up on precisely the right measurement is tougher in harder wood, turns out. Who knew?!


----------



## drsurfrat

Eric,
That top brace looks smaller than usual, tho i can't tell, but if it is, it might be worth more than five bucks.

Now you will need to make a Studley-style auger rack with rosewood and enameled numbers.


----------



## bigblockyeti

> This is internal part to woodcraft pump n grind. Should I use it with this crack or buy a new one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Keebler1


That looks like some sort of pump from adameve.com? Even the name is somewhat suggestive, come on, pump-n-grind. I think they knew well what they were doing when deciding on a name for that.


----------



## HokieKen

Keebler, if the crack doesn't show, it'll work fine like that. I don't see nothing wrong with a little pump and grind.


----------



## DevinT

Kenny, that's because … ain't nothin' wrong with a lil' pump and grind ^_^

Also, that beer reminds me of when my dad used to brew/bottle his own microbrew.


----------



## Keebler1

Thanks guys was pretty sure it wouldn't affect the final use


----------



## EricFai

Someone has a dirty mind, all good.


----------



## DevinT

(stating the obvious; and clarifying for the yout's)

It's a reference to a song.


----------



## EricFai

The bunny tails this feed has gone down. LOL


----------



## Keebler1

Eric this is normal and Kenny hasn't brought his rabid squirells up yet


----------



## DavePolaschek

The past few days have been pretty successful in the shop. This morning I broke off a screw in some wood (yes, I drilled it out, but now need a bigger screw because there's a bigger hole), discovered that a part I had ordered was 1/64 smaller than specified (but found that before I drilled the corresponding hole, so yay), and ended up with a hole in a metal piece that's off just enough that it'll be visible when everything is done unless I'm much cleverer than I've been in the past. And I reached the last point in the build where a mistake could send me back to the beginning (or more likely onto plan D). Since it's Sunday (or for that matter, a day that ends in 'Y') I think I'll take a nap before continuing.


----------



## EricFai

Now be nice to the squirrels, I feed mine peanuts. Little buggers will sit there until there all gone, and chase each other away from the nut house a hung up down back. But they are fun to watch.


----------



## DevinT

I can confirm, squirrels love peanuts.


----------



## EricFai

And flower bulbs, which I am trying keep them out of.


----------



## JohnMcClure

> The past few days have been pretty successful in the shop. This morning I broke off a screw in some wood (yes, I drilled it out, but now need a bigger screw because there's a bigger hole), discovered that a part I had ordered was 1/64 smaller than specified (but found that before I drilled the corresponding hole, so yay), and ended up with a hole in a metal piece that's off just enough that it'll be visible when everything is done unless I'm much cleverer than I've been in the past. And I reached the last point in the build where a mistake could send me back to the beginning (or more likely onto plan D). Since it's Sunday (or for that matter, a day that ends in 'Y') I think I'll take a nap before continuing.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


My errors haven't been quite so painful, Dave, but I was a little disappointed yesterday myself.
I made a piece I was kinda proud of, thought it was so clever I sent a pic to Kenny (not to spoil with such a good teaser on this thread, ya know).
And then I went to fit it into the plane and… it isn't going to work. 
Had I built a 3D model of the plane first I'd have relocated a certain pair of holes to accomodate, but… I don't do 3d models… so I didn't. 
No worries, recipient will never know the difference and should function just fine…
But it would have been cool to use that little piece.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Plane body isn't even glued up yet and it already takes full-length shavings. I'm happy with it.
Really want to make one for myself!


----------



## Woodmaster1

> Nice, Eric! I got tired of trying to find a good set of old auger bits and bought an almost-complete set from TFWW (they don't sell 11/16, 13/16 or 15/16, and I've needed each of those at least once since getting the Fisch bits). Plus it took more than 6 months to get the half-inch.
> 
> Spent yesterday morning making good progress on the plane before hitting a piece where tolerances are such that I needed a break. Hopefully this morning I can finish that up without having to toss it and try a second time. Sneaking up on precisely the right measurement is tougher in harder wood, turns out. Who knew
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Dave if you still need a specific size of auger bits pm me. I have tub of Irwin bits that will never get used.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thanks, John. We all have off days. I've just gotten, erm… experienced enough to know to walk away from the shop when it's one of those days. And nice shavings!

Woodmaster, I have full sets of old Jennings and Irwin bits, but a bunch of them are beat up enough that I need to sharpen them before they'll work well. If I find anything where they're damaged enough that I need a replacement, I'll let you know.


----------



## EarlS

> Since it's Sunday (or for that matter, a day that ends in 'Y') I think I'll take a nap before continuing.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


I like your approach to working in the shop. I did the same thing Sunday after my bike ride. Took a short siesta, then went out to the shop refreshed and ready to go.



> I can confirm, squirrels love *CORN*.
> 
> - DevinT


Fixed it for Kenny - we all know Kenny has a corn fetish…...

I spent the weekend planing, jointing, and generally cleaning up the rest of the garbage walnut I bought a couple weeks back. At least 75% waste to get it into something resembling usable lumber. Note to self, do not buy any more "live edge, rustic" wood, a.k.a. waste pieces.


----------



## doubleG469

Well got to spend most of the day in the shop setting up the new table saw and Bora moving system. Went fairly smoothly, except for two things. First is one outfeed table did no align with the tapped holes on one side. Checked it on both sides and yep the outfeed were correct but someone tapped on of the holes in the wrong spot. Nice.

Second, get all done.. Looking good, look over and there's one panel that didn't get mentioned in the instructions and after cussing and trying to figure where this damn thing could go. It goes on the bottom of the main cabinet before you bolt it to the cabinet base…. few more cuss words later I had to turn it over onto the top to install from the underside. Pain in the butt.

Today I'll get the boy out to help me lift it onto the Bora and we should be ready to rock and roll.


----------



## GR8HUNTER

what saw did you get Gary i must have missed it in post ? :<)))


----------



## DavePolaschek

No shop time today. More yard work, plus we got invaded by prairie dogs, so I spent a few hours closing holes and rearranging things to try and convince them to move elsewhere. Also calling various exterminators and finding that nobody will come get rid of them for us. Wishing I had a silencer for my .204 and that silencers worked as well as they do in the movies.

Going to see if maybe we can get some straw bales to put around their mounds to cut down their sight-lines. Supposedly that's one of the few things that'll annoy them enough to get them to move away.


----------



## donwilwol

> No shop time today. More yard work, plus we got invaded by prairie dogs, so I spent a few hours closing holes and rearranging things to try and convince them to move elsewhere. Also calling various exterminators and finding that nobody will come get rid of them for us. Wishing I had a silencer for my .204 and that silencers worked as well as they do in the movies.
> 
> Going to see if maybe we can get some straw bales to put around their mounds to cut down their sight-lines. Supposedly that's one of the few things that'll annoy them enough to get them to move away.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Just make yourself one of these Dave https://www.diy.timetestedtools.net/category/archery-equipment/wood-bow-examples/


----------



## EricFai

Or 22 cal pellet, just a little pop of air.

You could wage war on them like in Caddyshack. But your neighbors might frown on that.


----------



## duckmilk

Too bad you have neighbors Dave. Prairie dog hunting is a real sport because they are really hard to hit. I hunted some on a friend's ranch in central NM and it takes patience and a well aimed shot.
Pellet guns are quiet, but the pellets aren't that accurate unless you spend some dough for a better rifle. .22 cal rifles are more quiet than a .204 but still will produce a sharp sound. I've seen videos of how to make your own silencer somewhere.
Maybe just get some chicken wire and stake it over the holes?


----------



## EarlS

When I was growing up in WY my brother and I used to shoot prairie dogs with a 30-06 when we were finished antelope hunting while waiting for Dad to bring the truck around. Had to bounce the round in front of them or there was nothing left. Still pretty much turned them inside out. The competition was to see who could hit one the furthest away. Gave us a chance to use the high powered scopes and shoot a few extra home loads.

I have had luck good with the smoke bombs you can buy for moles/voles.

I heard prairie chickens and prairie dogs are on the protected species list in WY. Better check and make sure you aren't harming some special sub species or something like that.


----------



## HokieKen

My .177 air rifle works a treat for tree rats and it's quiet enough that nobody will notice. Lil prarie dog plinkin' could be good fun


----------



## DevinT

Just saw an "arrow rifle" in one of the catalogues that I get. Interesting concept.


----------



## HokieKen

I have one of those too Devin. Us **************************************** just call it a crossbow ;-)


----------



## DevinT

Not a cross bow, an arrow rifle


----------



## EricFai

As woodworkers, I think we can build one of those crossbows. Which does sound interesting.


----------



## HokieKen

Ahhh and air-arrow rifle  Interesting.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thanks for the comments, folks.

A .204 is just about perfect for popping prairie dogs (I could zap them at almost 200 yards pretty reliably on my buddy's ranch in Montana - my .204 has a set trigger which lets off with about a pound of trigger pull, a bipod, and a 24x scope) and I'm just fine with turning them into a red mist. Except for the report. And the neighbors. And the fact that I'd be shooting towards US-285 and with my luck it would be the day when they're transporting one of those heavy triple-cask trucks from Los Alamos to Carlsbad and I'd get a nice long vacation courtesy of the federales.

Air rifle in .22 caliber might work, but any smaller air rifle would get tossed around too much in the wind. They're bold little bastages, but I can't reliably get within 25 yards, and that's a mighty long reach in a 15-25 mph wind without the benefit of gunpowder and a nice low-drag projectile.

And yeah, about a third of the neighbors I've talked to claim the little bastages are protected. Another third is in the "don't tell anyone I told you, but…" camp. And the final third have told me that the bait blocks we use on mice will work on the PDs, but they need about two or three blocks each to die, "so keep the buffet line stocked."

The gas canisters or bug bombs won't work in our soil here when it's this dry. The gas all escapes through the dirt before even giving the PDs a buzz. Maybe if we got a couple inches of rain, but…

There are four, maybe five mounds on my neighbor's property. There are at least four on ours, but at least two may still be under construction.

It has been suggested that putting straw bales around their hole makes them nervous as they can't keep an eye on their surroundings. We may give that a try, especially on the hole that leads under our driveway. Texted our landscaper to see if he can help with straw bales. Or to see if he knows any exterminator who might help us. None of the pros except Critter Control will remove them, and they don't answer their phone. This dry year apparently has them spreading like crazy.

Oh well. Learned a lot about the little bastages today.


----------



## Lazyman

Instead of birbs, Dave, you need to carve some life sized hawk statues you can mount on roosts among the hole.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Dave, here's to learning a little more about the bastages.
https://hotspotoutdoors.com/forums/topic/117461-prairie-dog-recipes/


----------



## doubleG469

> what saw did you get Gary i must have missed it in post ? :<)))
> 
> - GR8HUNTER


tony I decided on the Lafuna Fusion F1, primarily due to accessibility. No one has anything in stock.


----------



## Lazyman

I think you meant the Lafuna Gusion.


----------



## doubleG469

> I think you meant the Lafuna Gusion.
> 
> - Lazyman


Yeah that one too.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Congrats Gary!


----------



## DevinT

Been a whirlwind couple of days on the plane. Enamel is all dried and everything is being glued up. Next step is to fashion the knob starting tomorrow. That's the bit that has me nervous.


----------



## Keebler1

Congrats Gary. My lathe was due in this week. Just found out jet is now showing a ship date of 6/21


----------



## DevinT

Taking inventory of what is left, I still have about 30 steps to finish the plane. Looks like I'm going to have to pick up the pace if I am going to also complete the bonus items.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Here's a question for you guys, not meaning to change the subject. I'm doing a project that requires 25 circles. 4.5 diameter. So to get consistency time to make a circle gauge for the band saw. I made a quick and dirty one, it worked great except the finishing point on the circle cut does not match out on the starting point. It's inside just a little. Do I have the pin misaligned? I set it to the gullet of the blade. Is that correct placement? I tried slowing my cut down and still the same. It all fixed with my OSS but that was a step I didn't want to do. Any suggestions?


----------



## Lazyman

If the jig is adjustable to different sizes, I have had that happen when it creeps a little. I am pretty sure that I set it so that the center aligns with the front of the blade not the gullet.


----------



## GR8HUNTER

what size blade are you using Jeff

maybe you could cut just a tad bigger then make a jig for your sander to make them all perfect :<)))))


----------



## Keebler1

Jeff sound like a good reason to either get a cnc or a shaper origin


----------



## GR8HUNTER

> Jeff sound like a good reason to either get a cnc or a shaper origin
> 
> - Keebler1


damn Keebs reaches right for his wallet LOL :<)))


----------



## HokieKen

It should be aligned to the front of the blade Jeff. That's where the cut is occurring. You can use it aligned with the gullet and it will probably work just fine but you'll have to measure from the pin to the front of the teeth to set the circle diameter.


----------



## Keebler1

> Jeff sound like a good reason to either get a cnc or a shaper origin
> 
> - Keebler1
> 
> damn Keebs reaches right for his wallet LOL :<)))
> 
> - GR8HUNTER


Always looking for a reason to buy more tools


----------



## DevinT

I second Shaper Origin having built an MFT table top with over 80 holes perfectly aligned. Took less than an afternoon.


----------



## drsurfrat

Or upgrade to new bow making efforts:
repeater


----------



## JohnMcClure

> Or upgrade to new bow making efforts:
> repeater
> 
> - drsurfrat


Careful guys, I can get sucked into a rabbit hole pretty easily. Cant afford to though!
When I was a kid I obsessed over the designs of, among other things, medieval projectile weapons. Obviously a future engineer lol.
I had fully drawn a design for a torsion (Roman style) catapult, and a repeating crossbow called the Chu Ko Nu (Google it?).
Back when YouTube didn't exist thank god.
I didn't have the skills or resources to execute these designs then, and today I don't have the time. But I've considered getting into it "for the kids".


----------



## jeffswildwood

Thanks all. I don't believe a CNC is in my future, but I wish it was. I did use a set up on the OSS as Tony suggested and it did round things off nicely. I may try moving the pin location from gullet to tip. See of that make things better.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Taking inventory of what is left, I still have about 30 steps to finish the plane. Looks like I'm going to have to pick up the pace if I am going to also complete the bonus items.


Better to realize that now than in a week or two, Devin!

I think this week ends up being an almost lost week for plane work, which is problematic for me. I've got a fairly simple list of things left to do, but a few of them involve things like "then wait a couple days for the BLO to cure."

But we played tourists up in Los Alamos yesterday, and it was a good day out.










Today is more house and yard work, with the highlight being putting the nets on the skylights to reduce the heat coming through them for the summer. And hopefully getting the BLO on the wooden plane parts so they can cure for a couple days before I get a full day of shop time on Saturday.


----------



## HokieKen

> Careful guys, I can get sucked into a rabbit hole pretty easily. Cant afford to though!
> *When I was a kid I obsessed over the designs of, among other things, medieval projectile weapons. Obviously a future engineer lol.
> I had fully drawn a design for a torsion (Roman style) catapult, and a repeating crossbow called the Chu Ko Nu *(Google it?).
> Back when YouTube didn t exist thank god.
> I didn t have the skills or resources to execute these designs then, and today I don t have the time. But I ve considered getting into it "for the kids".
> 
> - JohnMcClure


Funny, when I was in second grade I spent MONTHS trying to make a PacMan "video" cabinet out of cardboard, construction paper and Popsicle sticks. Kinda ironic that I'm the ME and you're the EE ;-p


----------



## HokieKen

Here's you a prairie dog slayer made completely with hand tools Dave


----------



## GrantA

Whew I just skimmed through 80-something new posts and learned we're doing a bow swap in the not so distant future and Dave needs a suppressed 243-ish rifle for his rodents. All caught up now 
In case anyone wondered 4140 steel is loads of fun to work with even with my machines ;-p I thought briefly about an aluminum plane sole haha


----------



## DevinT

Dave, tell me about it. Waiting for things to dry is the worst.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Plus, most of the paints no longer have the good fumes that used to make watching paint dry actually be entertaining.

F'in health and safety.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Grant, I've got a .204. Could buy or build a suppressor, but if you'd been reading closely, I also need suppressors to work as well as they do in the movies. No help for the supersonic bullet, though.

Maybe I could Elmer Keith them with a suppressed subsonic 300-ish grainer out of a .44Magnum. If I were a better shot. And didn't have neighbors.


----------



## bndawgs

Can you pack the holes full of rat poison?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Steve, there are some bait blocks, which are not approved for use on prairie dogs, but which have worked great on mice, which we have started referring to as "prairie dog breakfast bars."

It's the most important meal of the day, after all!


----------



## EricFai

In my younger years a built one if those spud cannons. Oh that was fun and it could do some damage. Hair Spray made for a great source of propellent, just a quite woosh Launched one straight up, I swear 500'


----------



## GrantA

Dave just load em subsonic. I worked up some 85gr 223 subs for a friend and they were deadly within 100yds. Trail boss powder is king in that arena in my experience! Plus match level brass prep- deburr flash holes and all that jazz.


----------



## JohnMcClure

> In my younger years a built one if those spud cannons. Oh that was fun and it could do some damage. Hair Spray made for a great source of propellent, just a quite woosh Launched one straight up, I swear 500
> 
> - Eric


Oh yeah. I can go on about those. Have built several, including some with fancy features. Good idea to build another soon, get the kids into it. Way easier than a catapult!


----------



## EarlS

> In my younger years a built one if those spud cannons. Oh that was fun and it could do some damage. Hair Spray made for a great source of propellent, just a quite woosh Launched one straight up, I swear 500
> 
> - Eric


We used a PVC pipe, a tennis ball, and lighter fluid. It was the flaming tennis ball of death. Can't do stuff like that any more without getting into trouble.


----------



## EricFai

Yes, the PVC works great along with a gas grill igniter, I used a larger chamber with a clean out cap, unscrew spray the charge in, cocked and ready to fire.

Flaming tennis balls, that is an interesting concept. Scarry too, would hate to start a forest fire.

Oh the rabbit holes (parriey dog holes) we go down, this is a great group. LOL


----------



## HokieKen

A large part of my work is pneumatic design. I tried for years to get a budget for us to build a Punkin' Chunkin' gun and take it to competitions. But, it never happened and I don't even know if there are still competitions. But it's on my "if somebody else will pay for it" bucket list


----------



## DavePolaschek

Spud cannons. There was a time when beer cans could have the top and bottom cut out with a normal household can opener, and duck-taping three or four of them together, drilling a small hole at the bottom, filling the bottom with lighter fluid (or white gas, in a pinch), dropping in a tennis ball, and touching a match to the hole in the bottom would launch tennis balls at the football players scrimmaging on the other side of the fence.

I hear.

Grant, I have a .204. Loading it subsonic would mean an awfully light load. My stock load for them is something north of 4000 FPS. 32 grain compressed loads, which are spinning at some huge number of RPMs so they're nice and stable, and when they touch something, they basically go off like a grenade. Subsonic, I suspect I would need to shim one end of the scope a bunch to even get close to the artillery-like trajectory I would need. Might as well make up some 600 grain loads for my 45-70 and rainbow those right down the hole. Course the bang might scare the rat down the hole before the bullet got there….


----------



## Lazyman

My dorm in college freshman year had flaming tennis ball cannon wars but we didn't have to worry about starting forest fires because they were used inside. East wing vs. west wing. Trash can lids for shields. My room was at the end of the hall and there were plenty burn marks on the door, not to mention to mention burn trails on the hall carpet. I still can't believe they put carpet down with the bunch of animals that lived there. The cannon wars evolved from Frisbee wars where you tried to break the other wing's long neck bottle with a direct hit and then someone decided to bring out the big guns.


----------



## DevinT

Plan A failed. Hope to salvage enough for a plan B. Exactly what i thought might happen, happened. There may not be a knob.


----------



## GrantA

Dave I have quickload if you'd ever like me to run some scenarios for you 
Well as soon as my windoze laptop decides to turn on again. I tried to turn it on today for the laser and nada :-/ I'll have to check it out tomorrow


----------



## DavePolaschek

Sorry about that, Devin. I'm currently on plan A2, but I got the wooden bits oiled this morning, and I think I'm past all the high-risk parts. But the week before shipping we have a house-guest coming, and I'll probably have to play chauffeur and host and won't be able to do much hiding in the shop. So I'm telling myself that my ship date is before my sweetie's friend arrives.

Grant, I have old-school books. They pretty much cover the bases. Plus they're handy when I need to clamp something by weighting it down.


----------



## GrantA

I've got books too but once you use quickload it's a game changer. Especially to get in the ballpark with a new load or gun. Shows chamber and muzzle pressures too


----------



## MikeB_UK

Quiet and blends in with your shop.
Reload may be a little slow though


----------



## EricFai

MikeB, that it a cool little contraption


----------



## jeffswildwood

During Army National Guard training we found out that you could use this with a blank to effectively fire a beer can. Oh what fun we had then!


----------



## donwilwol

> Quiet and blends in with your shop.
> Reload may be a little slow though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - MikeB_UK


I really wish you had not shown that!!


----------



## Mosquito

> Quiet and blends in with your shop.
> Reload may be a little slow though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - MikeB_UK


Doesn't have to be though


----------



## DavePolaschek

Maybe this is the kind of crossbow I need?


----------



## DevinT

Plan B is in full swing. Tomorrow we will see if plan B can be completed or if a plan C is needed. I am pretty sure I can pull off plan B.


----------



## DevinT

YES! I got plan B squared away and it's even better than plan A! I always like to think that everything happens for a reason, and after mach-planing with plan B for about 15 minutes, there are a myriad of hand positions that are very comfortable. I am glad that the knob suffered a tragic demise, and I think the swap recipient will agree. Phew. That was a stressful couple of days.

There is still additional shaping to do but the most risky part (imho) has been tackled! Only 4 more steps in the CNC and the *body* will be ready for manual shaping, sanding, and finishing. While the finish on the body is drying, that's when I will make the lever cap and start work on the bonus items.


----------



## DevinT

One of the things that I am unsure of that I could use an opinion on …

How are folks securing their cross-pins? All I ever see people do (or talk about, or instruct-on) is drilling a 1/4" hole for 1/4" brass rod stock, cutting to length, and sanding the end of it.

Well, I do that, and sure, the brass rod slides in, doesn't wobble, and feels pretty secure, but is not permanently affixed. I can slide the rod out of the plane rather easily. Is this the intended design, say if you need to replace said rod?

I mean, I am at a stage right now where I can decide (and had been leaning) on creating a serviceable plane (meaning minimal glue, only where absolutely needed) where if things like threads become damaged then inserts can be replaced, et cetera. Alternatively, I can put either glue or epoxy on things. I can lock-tite a couple components too perhaps (like blade set screws). Though putting epoxy on the cross-pin I am unsure of. It's not like it's going to go anywhere once it's under pressure from the lever cap anyways.

Thoughts?


----------



## Lazyman

I decided to try to peen a cross a steel pin once and it bent, though it was smaller than 1/4". It can't come out after that. Much swearing ensued that day.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I've made a few Wood planes and I stick the rod through half way and put epoxy on the ends of each and slide it the rest of the way. Have some DNA handy for cleanup.


----------



## HokieKen

I would probably peen it if you're comfortable doing so Devin. That way it can be removed down the road if it does become necessary. You could epoxy it if you're confident that your lever cap won't ever need to be replaced.

Another option is cut it to length, then on one end only, whack the side with a ball peen hammer. That will lightly deform it so you'll have to press/drive it into the wood but it'll essentially have an interference fit to prevent it from coming out unintentionally. It will still be able to be easily driven out from the other side with a punch though.


----------



## DavePolaschek

The cross pin doesn't really need securing. When you put tension on the wedge/cap iron, that'll hold the pin in place.

That said, I generally peen the ends a little so it doesn't fall out when I disassemble the plane.

Also note that most 1/4 brass rod is actually 15/64. This may or may not matter to you.


----------



## Lazyman

I wonder if 15/64 might actually be 6mm?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

It's like .037" off Nathan.


----------



## DevinT

I put the calipers on it and it said 0.2500


----------



## DavePolaschek

Spiffy! I was a bit taken aback to find mine was 1/64 smaller. Not a problem, since I mostly work to a sixteenth and then fit parts to each other, but I'm sure glad I didn't just drill a hole before measuring.


----------



## DevinT

I don't have a peening hammer (neither ball nor cross peen) and am a little afraid of messing up the wood in the process, as I have never peened before.

Kelley, you mentioned DNA. I assume that is for cleaning up epoxy. What is it? Will it work on JB Weld Qwik Weld 2-part quick-dry epoxy that I picked up at the BORG a few weeks ago?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Denatured alcohol. It'll clean it up just fine. Maybe have some a-tips handy too.

I'm all for peening but not so much in a wood bodied plane. Doesn't look clean enough IMO.


----------



## duckmilk

> Maybe have some a-tips handy too.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


Did you mean q-tips?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

You can use q-tips duck, I'll stick with my a-tips.


----------



## Lazyman

> It's like .037" off Nathan.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


 15/64" and 6mm are 0.001845" apart which if Dave was using a fractional inch caliper would probably look like 15/64ths … or 31/128ths


----------



## KelleyCrafts

True! But Dave is old and probably a little blind so that probably explains some of it.


----------



## Lazyman

Hell, I might be older than Dave. But my motto is you are only young once but you can be immature for a lifetime.


----------



## HokieKen

> I don't have a peening hammer (neither ball nor cross peen) and am a little afraid of messing up the wood in the process, as I have never peened before.
> 
> Kelley, you mentioned DNA. I assume that is for cleaning up epoxy. What is it? Will it work on JB Weld Qwik Weld 2-part quick-dry epoxy that I picked up at the BORG a few weeks ago?
> 
> - DevinT


I don't think you can get it in CA Devin. Might be able to buy it as fuel though?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Damn straight. My kids say they're older than I am. They say I'm 11, I haven't passed that mentally.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I was just going to pull up my Home Depot app and snap a pic for Devin but it doesn't come up when I search for it. Lowe's app same thing….really?? I'll check the web.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Same thing on the web…maybe I should stock up.


----------



## DavePolaschek

The Schwarz uses Everclear for making shellac rather than DNA. Handy if you want to get shellacked after shellacking.

I may be old and blind and forgetful, but… what was I saying?


----------



## HokieKen

Can't buy Everclear in VA. We have loads of moonshine though


----------



## duckmilk

At the distillery we rinse things off with 190 proof, even our hands ;-P

AZDave, where do you get a-tips? Is the "a" for Arizona only?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Canada Duck. a is just an abbreviation for Eh.


----------



## DevinT

What about 91% isopropyl?


----------



## DevinT

I did it! I successfully installed the inserts and it went as planned! Now I am at the stage of wondering which edges to round over and which ones to leave sharp. Like the lever cap, sharp or rounded edges? Leave the back of the lever cap sharp and do the top edges only? So many choices. Part of me just wants to obliterate all the sharp edges. Do a 1/16" round over on the sole edges, 1/4" round over on the top edges, and 1/16" round over on the lever cap edges.

I always have a hard time deciding this detail.


----------



## DevinT

I have new brass rods coming on Saturday. The brass rod that ships with the Veritas kit is exactly long enough to fit a plane that is exactly the width of their dimension in the instructions. However, I wanted the plane to be slightly wider at exactly 2.5" instead of 2 5/16" (3/16" shy of 2.5"), so now the brass rod they provided me is too short. So on Saturday I get to try my hand at hacksawing some brass to fit.


----------



## duckmilk

> Canada Duck. a is just an abbreviation for Eh.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


 Got it. Arizona would be az-tips.



> What about 91% isopropyl?
> 
> - DevinT


190 proof is 95% so 91% is just shy of that so it will work fine. Problem is, you can't drink isopropyl )

Wow Devin, I'm hoping the rest of the build goes smoothly. I'm sure you have had enough of set-backs. Can't wait to see the reveal and your project post.


----------



## DevinT

I had an insert back out on me after sinking a set screw in too deep and locking the screw to the insert. So I decided to epoxy the the inserts in with JB Kwick Weld with about 2500 psi strength. I think that should prevent the aforementioned situation from repeating.

duck, yes, with all the things I have fixed I sit back and look at it and am in amazement of what I have produced thus far. I don't even see the set-backs. Just the next steps as it gets closer and closer. All the CNC work was is done on the body now. Now it is on to the lever cap.

I am going to finish the plane before I start on the bonus items.


----------



## Keebler1

Devin with all your posts about the detail you are going into makes me glad I sat this swap out. Attention to a the small details is what I have a hard time doing


----------



## DevinT

I have been working on the Shaoer Origin for so much and working at such minute scale that when I think of doing a 1/16" round over by hand I am in the mindset of "woah, 1/16"? That's huge!" Though I admit, I cannot wait to get to the manual steps again. Much more relaxing even if more/less dangerous.


----------



## DevinT

I too am looking forward to seeing what I create, lol


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Problem is, you can't drink isopropyl )


I believe that should be you *shouldn't* drink isopropyl. Pretty sure I knew some boozehounds who did, though.

Devin, I hope your new brass rod is 1/4 rather than 15/64 or 6mm or whatever. You think in different units than I do. But brass is pretty dang easy to work. Just cut it a scosh long, then file the end smooth and down to the right length.

When I was making brass split nuts, a machinist friend of mine offered to help, but I just hacked them out (5/8 rod, cut to somewhere between 3/16 and 5/16 long, then filed down to about a 32nd less than that, then hacksaw a slot in the top, but the slot wasn't as wider as my split nut driver, so I got a little diamond file and widened the slot a hair. It fits, but I have no idea of any of the dimensions except knowing that it's a 10-32 thread inside it. And even figuring out the dimensions I needed so I could tell him what to make probably would've taken longer than it did for me to just file until it worked.

Keebs, it's easy for me to pay no attention to small details, but when I want a nice result, I make lists of everything I need to do to finish. And then I keep adding to the list as I think of other stuff I need to do. If I'm hacking together a quick tool for my own shop, I don't bother with the list, and the result shows that.


----------



## Keebler1

Devin for your brass you are wondering if you should epoxy or not what if you slotted one end and threaded the other that way it could be removed like a screw?


----------



## GrantA

Devin I thought you plane *was* the bonus?

The rest of.us are over here like 








Cut your brass rod about 1/8" -1/4" over length then peen if you like and dress it with a file.


----------



## JohnMcClure

I should have finished my plane yesterday afternoon. My newest baby had other plans, though. Now I have enough catching up to do with yard and household work its doubtful I'll even get there today.
But I'm in a pretty good place with the project, and I have a plan for a bit of a bonus item too. Are we running out of time?


----------



## DevinT

I planned to ship in about 2-3 weeks at the latest


----------



## DevinT

So, perhaps because I am a glutton for punishment, I measured my shop to see just how small a space it is that I am doing all this work in.

48 square feet.

That's the amount of space I have to work (including a table).

Do I win the award for smallest shop?


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Are we running out of time?


Ship date is June 21, so 3 weeks and a weekend yet. We're going to have a house-guest, so I figure I need to aim a week earlier. You have a baby, so I figure you need to aim about 18 years early. ;-)

Not sure how to measure when I was working in the garage on the tailgate of my truck. That was either <20 sq ft, or infinite be a use i only worked with the garage door open.


----------



## DevinT

Oooo, that gives me an idea for when the new vehicle arrives. I can just back the mini-van into the garage and open the rear hatch for some additional room in the shop


----------



## Keebler1

Or leave the vehicles outside


----------



## DavePolaschek

And if you're worried about the minivan, get a pallet and cut it to size to make a disposable work-surface you can put in the van while you're working. I went through three pallets (in about six months) as temporary workbenches to set on top of my tailgate. When they're done, they become birdhouse lumber.


----------



## Lazyman

Mini van may be a little low (mine is). I think that if space was an issue for me, Jay Bates just released a pretty cool portable bench/horse designed around the Matchfit system that would be pretty handy. He also has a bunch of accessories he shows in this video.


----------



## Keebler1

Here is what I finished today


----------



## JohnMcClure

Tiny shops lol.
I have 900sqft but not a free hour to organize.

Took a bunch of fine shavings in red oak with my swap plane. Very satisfying. Needs some rasp work and finish. Was just getting started when baby needed attention and it's my shift. Smh.
18 years is right dave!


----------



## DevinT

John, I'm right behind you-new baby is due in 8 weeks. I'm relishing shop time because I know that once that baby comes I may not see the shop again for a while. Thankfully the plane swap ends a full month before the little one will start terrorizing us and drawing all attention toward it.


----------



## DevinT

Keebler, very nice pen.
Lazyman, I'll have a look, thanks.


----------



## EricFai

Congratulations Devin,


----------



## Keebler1

I think it was well past time I mowed my back yard. That weed is taller than I am


----------



## KelleyCrafts

That's not saying much. We've seen how small Keebler elves are.


----------



## DevinT

Eric, thanks!


----------



## DevinT

"Put a 30 degree bevel on it" they say. Exactly how, they do not say.

I was going to use the bench sander, having marked out with a marking gauge where to stop. However, small shop. Didn't want to put the Origin away and pull the bench sander down. Thought, what if …

Chisels.

I thought to myself, "how hard could it be?" Just pair down to one of the lines, bring the angle up until it meets the other line.

I started.

About half way through I am thinking to myself …

Holy Jeezus! This is a lot of fun! Why has nobody ever told me how fun and immensely satisfying it is to carve out a chunk of wood by hand with a mallet and chisel? I think I am hooked. I bought chisels a long time ago and never really used them much except to square corners. I love this.

I don't know if my neighbors share my enthusiasm. No signs of issues yet.


----------



## DevinT




----------



## DevinT

Minimal effort and time and the chisel delivered. Amazing. I might chisel more often.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Heh! Welcome to the galoot world, Devin!

Touched up the enamel on the plane that I dinged up doing test fits last week. Got another 12 hours for it to dry, or 36 for maximum hardness. Ok then.

Then we went and bought some straw bales and built forts for the prairie dogs.










The theory is that they'll get claustrophobic and go back to the neighbor's yard, which is more open. We'll see. I'm dubious, but I've heard crazier ideas, so what the heck!


----------



## Lazyman

On the other hand you might get a thank you note from the varmints thanking your for the bedding to line their sleeping dens. If you see a little periscope sticking up over the bails, you know you are in trouble. 

If you put a hawk statue on top of the bail that might really speed things along. Maybe a hawk whirligig!


----------



## EarlS

Dave - that looks like a field mouse high rise complex which makes the prairie dogs slum lords. There goes the neighborhood with all that low income housing.


----------



## DevinT

Teaser


----------



## DavePolaschek

Good morning in the shop today.

Teaser:









I think I might be done with the metalwork portion of the build. Woohoo!

Regarding the prairie dogs, I need to go out after lunch and give them their "breakfast bars" for the day. They seem to like them, which is just fine by me.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Teaser


----------



## Woodmaster1

> Quiet and blends in with your shop.
> Reload may be a little slow though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - MikeB_UK


I missed a good opportunity to have my high school engineering students make something lethal instead of a catapult to shoot ping pong balls at candy. That would have had my retirement date moved up a year or two.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Woodmaster, 20-20 hindsight, eh?

I guess I wasn't done with the metalworking portion. I found one of my wood pieces just couldn't handle the stresses it was subjected to, so it needed to either be shop-made plywood (still a possibility, but it'll be a couple days waiting for the glue to dry) or metal (which will let me move to the next step while I wait for glue to dry).


----------



## JohnMcClure

If anyone is handy with rope, knots, and braids I could use some help. I posted this thread:
And here's what I'm working on:


----------



## drsurfrat

answered on your thread. I also have a little 12 marlin spike if you want to get fancy.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Got our second *S* today! Woohoo!

Looks like the shop-made plywood is going to be my solution. 4 ply seems to handle all the stresses, and I managed to get shavings for the first time this morning after opening the mouth by about 1/32nd. I think I like the tack of making the mouth zero-clearance, and then opening it as needed, but it means getting those first shavings doesn't happen until pretty late in the game, which can make a guy nervous.


----------



## DevinT

I made the tolerances on my mouth extremely precise and after assembly, it jammed on all but the wispiest of shavings. Luckily though, after flattening the sole, I bought just enough clearance that it doesn't jam anymore.

Dave, glad you are getting shavings! And yay for the second *S*

Teaser:


----------



## DavePolaschek

Yeah, if we learn from mistakes, I learned a lot on this one. No huge mistakes, but a lot of details I didn't get right out of the gate, and had to come back and revisit. Which is fun once the problem is in the rear-view.

Took a piece of Russian olive a neighbor gave me and made 90% of a bowl today. Then discovered a check inside the piece of wood, luckily before it came apart, so I soaked it down pretty well with thin CA. I'll try finishing it off tomorrow after I'm done with my plane work for the day. The bowl will probably end up a little thicker than I had initially hoped.

Going to be tight for getting a bonus done. My sweetie's friend arrives from MN next Wednesday evening, so I'm hoping I can drop the box in the mail and get my *S* on Wednesday afternoon or Thursday morning.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Ah yes. The old shim-with-a-playing-card-for-an-offset-cut trick.


----------



## DevinT

NOT today, Curly Maple. You will NOT beat me! Not today, at least.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Rare evening session in the shop this evening. Got the bowl done enough to sign it, and I'll look at it in the morning and either call it done or fiddle with it a little more. I'd rather it was a little thinner, but I'd rather not be picking it out of the walls, so…

Also finished my shop-made plywood, and it works well. Looks pretty good, too! Bubinga and ash.

Also put the second coat of oil on a fish I carved over the last few weeks. It was a particularly knotty piece of cherry that had me confused by the changing grain direction more than once. And I think it came out fairly decent in the end.

That's some pretty maple, Devin!


----------



## DevinT

Dave, thanks! It was very frustrating to work. The surface was wavy to the touch and I kept flipping back and forth between the No 8 and No 4 to knock down those waves. Then hit it with the low angle apron plane to smooth it up and eliminate tear out and skin tags. The frustrating bit was how deep they were. Several times I had to stop and draw pencil marks all over just to convince myself that I really was making progress.


----------



## JohnMcClure

That looks like a challenging one to work by hand, for sure!


----------



## DevinT

I definitely got my cardio workout done yesterday. Took me about 3 hours, if I recall correctly.


----------



## Keebler1

Nice Devin. My lathe is in so I get to pick it up this weekend if I get Mt truck out of the shop and my 3d printer has shipped. Guess now the fun begins


----------



## HokieKen

Nathan,









Mmmmhmmmm


----------



## Lazyman

Tasty…but we really need to find you a better glass to drink if from.


----------



## DevinT

Dang, I cut one of the parts backwards and just created more work for myself.


----------



## HokieKen

That's my third-beer-glass Nathan. The chances of me dropping my glass after 3 rise exponentially so my glass becomes plastic.


----------



## Lazyman

Especially if you are drinking imperial IPAs. I as going say that I only use a cup like that when I don't want anyone to know what I am drinking. Unfortunately I am not drinking much beer this week or getting much shop time this week or next. I had small a skin cancer removed from my ear on Tuesday and they told me not to work hard enough to work up a sweat until it heals. And no alcohol until I am off the Tylenol.


----------



## DevinT

Lazyman, congrats on getting that removed successfully. I'll raise a glass of wine for you to toast the good news.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Nathan, sounds like you should have small skin cancers removed all the time. "Sorry, can't work. Doctor's orders." Well, except for the no beer part. Maybe they can put you on something that doesn't interact badly with alcohol. Like codeine. ;-) Hope this isn't going to affect your project.

Speaking of being late, I wonder where Grant is. It's just about time for a flurry of activity from him. ;-)

Devin, I'm sure I have no idea at all what you are talking about. That never happens around here.

My shop-made plywood piece is looking good except for a small patch where the bubinga isn't absorbing BLO, even after sanding away over 1/32. Trying to decide what to do with that so it doesn't look goofy. Hoping to get the plane assembled and start checking it for small bits that need touching up while I start working on a bonus. I have an idea for that, and maybe I can crank it out over the weekend. We'll see.


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## HokieKen

Dang Nathan, sorry. Didn't mean to tease you ;-) Glad you found it and got it sliced off your ear though. At least it wasn't on some part of the body that you actually use.

And the truth of the plastic cup is that none of my good beer mugs or glasses will sit in the cupholder on my recliner without tipping over whenever I sit the chair up (DAMHIKT) so I use a plastic one from the kitchen when I drink while I watch TV. Plus it changes color with temperature so it captivates me ;-)

The reason I directed that beer to Nathan is because I'm pretty sure I recall that he likes the Hazy Little Thing from Sierra Nevada. But any of y'all that enjoy a really hoppy IPA that's 9% ABV but doesn't taste like it should give it a go.

I'm warming up for the beer swap ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

> Dang, I cut one of the parts backwards and just created more work for myself.
> 
> - DevinT


Just use a mirror to assemble it ;-p


----------



## DevinT

Ken, which is a better plane? Buck Rogers or Ben Hur? Similar color schemes.


----------



## HokieKen

> Ken, which is a better plane? Buck Rogers or Ben Hur? Similar color schemes.
> 
> - DevinT


I don't know much about the Ben Hur planes but I feel pretty confident that the Buck Rogers is a much better plane. A quick search indicates that the Ben Hur planes were economy models. At least all of them I saw appeared to have pressed steel frogs. I'd be interested to hear otherwise though if I'm wrong. Like I said, I'm just basing this on a google image search


----------



## Lazyman

> Dang Nathan, sorry. Didn t mean to tease you ;-) Glad you found it and got it sliced off your ear though. At least it wasn t on some part of the body that you actually use.
> 
> - HokieKen


No worries Kenny. I've not a nice Elevated Rye IPA waiting in the shop fridge that I will probably be able to enjoy tonight. Pain is pretty much gone and I get to take off the compression bandages this afternoon so I get to see how nasty it still looks. Unfortunately, I have to have another spot removed from the same ear next week and I really need to get back into the shop to wrap up my plane swap stuff. Not happy with the results and I either need to spend some time tuning or move on to my next idea while I still have time to complete it. My backup is almost ready to go but I am not sure it is the best choice for my recipient.

Speaking of beer and the swap, we have a trip through NM to Alpine, AZ later this month and it will definitely be a beer run to pick up a few of my favorite NM and CO beers that they don't sell in TX. I guess I need to look for some AZ beers to try while I am out that way too so if anyone knows any good AZ craft breweries to try let me know. Hopefully, I will find some to share for the beer swap (and I will be able to hold on to some of them long enough to ship some). I already have a plan for something I want to try to make for the swap. Gary gave me a really nice piece of wood for letting him use my shop while he was without a table saw that will be perfect for this.


----------



## HokieKen

When we were in AZ a few weeks ago, I had an IPA from Grand Canyon Brewery in Williams. It was okay but nothing I wanted to bring home. That was actually the only AZ beer I had on the whole trip.


----------



## Keebler1

Nathan if you need me to come over one Saturday afternoon to help with your plane let me know


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## DevinT

Fully assembled, my plane is turning out to be quite a heavy little thing. I am surprised by the weight. I'd say it's about 3/4 of the weight of a metal bodied plane, surprisingly.


----------



## HokieKen

IMO, that's a good thing Devin. The design I was working on when I was participating was pretty much driven by wanting more mass than typical wooden or infill planes have.


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## DevinT

Ken, wow. That would have been quite a thing to hold, I bet.

On a related topic, does it scare anyone that I will be shipping tools with the plane to service it? Do you think that's even necessary? For example, throwing in a $10 T-handle 5/64" Allen wrench and a small L Allen wrench for the two different size set screws on the plane?


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## DavePolaschek

Devin, I don't see a need for tools, but then I have a set of drivers.










Plus Torx, + and - , Robertson, and a few others.

Actually, I would be kind of amused if I got something that required a driver I didn't have. Maybe pentalobe or something… it would be a nice excuse for some tool shopping!


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## DevinT

So, safe to assume the recipient will have the necessary tools and if not, good excuse for them to buy a set  gotcha


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## Keebler1

Devin use tamper resistant torx. A lot of people don't have those and they can get a new set of tools


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## HokieKen

I would say anyone in this swap most likely has a set of allen wrenches Devin. And if they don't, they need a set anyway.


----------



## DevinT

This plane might just be the death of me. If not from the complexity then from the spouse who is getting very impatient for the end of this project so I can finish the air conditioning project (as hot weather increases).

I keep telling the spouse that I have plenty of time to finish the air conditioner between June 21st and July 28th (more than a month) which is the time between shipping for the swap and the expected birth of our first child.

Hectic times these are. This bonus item for the plane is really killing me.


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## DevinT

I really need to watch it as I get closer to completion. So many mistakes, I lost count. Made another one today, wherein I pulled a piece off the CNC before the last engraving was done. Thought I had made all the engravings, pulled it off, hit it with mineral spirits, painted it, and *then* realized 10 minutes later that I forgot one of the markings in the corner on the bonus item. Ugh. So after the paint dries it will be sanded and going back into the CNC with a 20 minute setup for a 3 second cut, only to need more painting when it comes out.

I've blown way past my 30 hour estimation now because of all the mistakes I keep having to fix. That's the problem with custom designs that are changing as you work.


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## HokieKen

Then drop the bonus item Devin. It's not required at all. I have a feeling you've put enough time, effort and expense into the main attraction!


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## DevinT

But the bonus item is amazing. It what puts the whole thing over the top. Not to mention it makes the plane look really friggin' cool when attached. Spouse even says it looks way better with the attachments.

I'm just glad that when this whole thing is done, I will have a set of:

+ 15 master files for CNC capable of producing one of 3 different planes
+ A publicly available plane on the Shaper Hub consisting of 6 files and 7 additional optional components
+ A branded custom plane consisting of 15 files
+ A signature series branded custom plane consisting of 16 files

The branded custom planes being built with:

+ All optional components
+ 1 custom material not traditionally found on hand planes
+ 2 different kinds of wood
+ 3 different kinds of metal

Whereas the Shaper Hub plane that you make yourself will lack branding and the custom material, but have all the other functional components.

While I have produced files for a pared-down design to post on the Shaper Hub, I haven't fully decided on whether to publicize the files yet. We'll see what my recipient thinks about the plane first.

The thing that keeps me going is the fact that once-finished, the design will be fully vetted so that I (or anyone else, likely with my guidance) can build one with ease. However, designing it and going back to adjust the files every time there is a mistake that I have to convert into a feature is extremely daunting.


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## KelleyCrafts

I would be interested in checking out the svg's. I doubt I would build it but still interested in taking a look.


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## DevinT

Kelley, I can definitely shoot you over the SVGs after the reveal. It's a pretty complex beast. I think at a minimum you're looking at 9 different router bits:

+ 1/4" down-cut spiral bit at 1" long
+ 1/4" single O'flute down-cut spiral bit at 1.5" long
+ 1/8" compression spiral bit at 1" long
+ 3/4" ball or cove bit
+ 1" spoilboard clearing bit
+ 60-degree V groove bit
+ 1/16" roundover
+ 1/8" roundover
+ 1/4" roundover

In addition you will need these 9 consumables:

+ Mineral spirits
+ Primer
+ Paint (2 different colors)
+ Enamel
+ Finish
+ Wax
+ Paste Wax
+ Epoxy (e.g., JB Kwik Weld)
+ Sandpaper (60, 80, 100, 150, 220, 320, 400 grits)

5 different part categories:

+ 1/4-20 inserts
+ Embedment nuts
+ Set screws (2 different kinds)
+ Lee Valley Veritas wooden plane kit
+ Wood (about 5 feet long by 6 inches by 1 1/8 thick)

And at least 10 tools:

+ Shaper Origin
+ Shaper Workstation
+ Some way to thickness stock
+ Bench sander (or chisels and a sanding block)
+ Small hammer
+ Phillips screwdriver
+ SAE Allen wrench set (3 different sizes needed)
+ Optional: Swiss pattern jeweler's files
+ Optional: Dental picks
+ Patience

Last but not least, the speeds and feeds (assuming wood hardness of ~2k Janka):

+ If the bit is above 1/2" diameter, use speed of 8 ipm
+ If bit is 1" or larger, use speed of 7 ipm
+ Use a plunge speed of 2.5 ipm for 3.4" bit and larger
+ Use plunge speed of 5 ipm and feed speed of 10 ipm for helical cuts with 1/4" bits
+ Use plunge speed of 10 ipm and feed speed of 10 for non-helical cuts with small diameter bits (1/4" and smaller)
+ Use a spindle speed of 2 for 3/4" bits and larger
+ Use a spindle speed of 3 for 1/4" bits and smaller


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## DevinT

But at least you won't have to design the thing. If I was paid my regular wage to design this thing, we'd be looking at 5 figures for the design alone. That's my gift to the plane community ;D


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## KelleyCrafts

Well I think I have just about everything on the list other than patience.

Not sure I would build it or not. I do t do many wood plane builds these days and don't expect to with the metal mill in house but still interested in checking the files out to geek out a little.


----------



## DevinT

There are some interesting concepts that I think would apply to a metal plane. Such as the incorporation of something I am calling a "palm horn" and a half-degree tilt in one area to redirect forces. Those two unique features I feel give it a really nice feel and it stays in the cut really nicely. I'm going to have a real hard time letting this one go, which is why I was so keen to have the SVGs match the product exactly so I can make one for myself.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Definitely a nice benefit of the Origin.


----------



## DevinT

I'd like to think that after this plane is done, I can start work on version 3 (version 1 failed, the plane that is shipping is version 2). Version 3 will have my own adjuster design with parts turned on a Tormach CNC lathe. The parts are all designed, and the manufacturer is all lined up, but I need to wait for the funding.

However, I think the arrival of a new human with the inability to care for itself in our household is going to demand a lot of time and energy. In between losing sleep and day dreaming about sleep, I imagine there will be little time for anything else. Or at least, that's what people tell me about being a new parent-"don't expect to sleep in the first year."

Sounds fun. (/sarcasm)


----------



## DavePolaschek

> I've blown way past my 30 hour estimation now because of all the mistakes I keep having to fix. That's the problem with custom designs that are changing as you work.


"I love the sound deadlines make as they go whooshing past!" That's a quote from back in my software development days.

More seriously, if you're pressed for time, drop the bonus, or ship the bonus late. It's a bonus, not a requirement. I'm knocking out a bonus because I can (and I need something to do while watching paint dry on the main item), and by "cheating" and firing up the bandsaw, I got the first of three or four halves of the work on the bonus done in a couple hours this afternoon (note the estimating issue there). Plus I roughed out the two custom metal parts I need to make, and bought the two stock metal parts I needed from the hardware store, complete with BSing with the owner a little, with time enough to write this before I need to start cooking dinner for tonight. But the bonus is all things I've done before, too. Almost zero risk. And if something does go wrong, sorry to my recipient. No bonus.

Remember that these swaps are supposed to be fun. I sometimes go over the top because I'm retired and have the time to try crazy stuff, but gods help you if you use me as an example of how to do things. That way leads to madness.


----------



## DevinT

Well, I had planned on not one, but two bonus items, and I'm thinking about axing one of them before I start it. I won't axe the one that I already started and is 95% complete. If the last 5% gives me too much trouble, I'll just sand it and ship the bonus naked.


----------



## Keebler1

Don't say naked you make Kenny drool and get him in trouble


----------



## HokieKen

I ship everything naked. I usually wear an apron when I sand though.


----------



## DevinT

LoL.


----------



## duckmilk

> I had small a skin cancer removed from my ear on Tuesday and they told me not to work hard enough to work up a sweat until it heals. And no alcohol until I am off the Tylenol.
> 
> - Lazyman


I think you need to talk to your local veterinarian Nathan. All MDs will tell you that out of liability fears, your vet will tell you the truth ;-) (you have my number)

Now, I am *really* anxious to see what Devin is cooking up for this swap. I'm prepared to tie a bandana around my head to keep my jaw from hitting the laptop.


----------



## DevinT

I will say this, my plane slightly resembles something from BCT


----------



## duckmilk

Are you including an instruction manual? With Pictures?


----------



## DevinT

*cough* get out of my head !

Translation: I was planning to, yes. Time permitting.

But, I can do you one better. Going to include a letter typed on a mint condition 1982 IBM Selectric typewriter complete with font balls.


----------



## DevinT

I've also been thinking about using the Origin to cut foam inserts for packing


----------



## EricFai

This is a funny group today, and y'all have been busy. Enjoying the laughs this evening.

A few bloopers on the builds, sure hate it when that happens.

Nathan, happy to hear all worked out for you there, I had a mole removed a few years ago, but the doc said I could go back to work. It would has been nice to have a few days off.

Devin, by the sounds of what your doing there, you may have the top plane in this swap. You go Girl.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> I ship everything naked. I usually wear an apron when I sand though.


Good thing Devin just got an apron then, amirite?


----------



## GR8HUNTER

*HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEVIN :<))))))))))))*


----------



## DevinT

Thanks hunter!


----------



## DavePolaschek

Happy birthday, Devin!


----------



## DevinT

Thank you, Dave!


----------



## EricFai

I'll chime in with a Happy Birthday Devin.


----------



## DevinT

Thanks, Eric!


----------



## EarlS

Merry Christmas Devin!!! - Just to be a bit different


----------



## DevinT

EarlS, LoL! Thank you very much!


----------



## HokieKen

It's not Devin's birthday. It's the XX anniversary of her birthday.

Happy anniversary Devin ;-)


----------



## Keebler1

Happy birthday Devin


----------



## EarlS

Apparently, it is also National Old Maid's Day, National Doughnut Day, National Cheese Day, National Hug your Cat Day, and National Cognac Day. Pick one or two to celebrate.


----------



## DevinT

Ken, Keebler, thanks!

Earl, LoL.

Update:

Paint dried on the bonus item. Fail! Paint bled more than 1/16" into the wood and so I had to remove the engraving in the process.

Got some tips on how to do that better. I am used to working in closed grain hardwoods like Bubings that don't do what maple just did on me. I will have to regroup, perform a test on some scrap maple, and see how things go from here.

I love this swap because I am learning so much.


----------



## Keebler1




----------



## duckmilk

Happy birthday Devin!

Maybe someone else will have a better idea on the paint, but I'm thinking seal it with shellac first to seal the wood, then sand it down and re-apply the paint.


----------



## DevinT

I tried masking with painter's tape just now but it did not work. The level of detail is too great and the tip is in the wood just dragging the tape to the point of ripping it all up. No chance of a clean cut through tape with this fine of detail.

I taped around the engraving and applied some clear spray enamel (it's what I have on hand, no shellac). In an hour I will apply another coat and in a further hour apply a third. Then I will let that dry over night and carefully apply the infill paint and then sand it all off. Will see how that goes.


----------



## duckmilk

Anything that will seal the wood and at least minimize the paint creeping into unwanted areas (I said creeping Kenny ;-P )


----------



## Keebler1

Look what followed me home last night


----------



## DevinT

Keebler, very nice!


----------



## DevinT

Wow, wow, wow!

I tested sealing the wood with clear spray enamel before laying down enamel paint infill for an engraving and it turned out better than expected! With the dried clear enamel covering the wood, I was able to put the black enamel paint over the engraving and simply wipe the rest off with a towel like putting ink into scrimshaw work. Looks amazing even after one coat with less than 60s of work. I will put on a second coat and do the same thing, just wipe off the excess and let it dry. This test turned out so well, I think I will put the engravings on the bonus item after all.


----------



## JohnMcClure

> Wow, wow, wow!
> 
> I tested sealing the wood with clear spray enamel before laying down enamel paint infill for an engraving and it turned out better than expected! With the dried clear enamel covering the wood, I was able to put the black enamel paint over the engraving and simply wipe the rest off with a towel like putting ink into scrimshaw work. Looks amazing even after one coat with less than 60s of work. I will put on a second coat and do the same thing, just wipe off the excess and let it dry. This test turned out so well, I think I will put the engravings on the bonus item after all.
> 
> - DevinT


Glad this worked for you. 
That's what I always do, but with shellac, which is convenient because of how quickly it dries.
Never used enamel but it may be more effective. How long did you let the clear enamel dry?


----------



## DevinT

The can says it fully dries in one hour. I let it dry for 12 hours. My shop is 70 degrees, so the cans are usually right, but I just like to be sure. I put 3 ultra thin coats on, just minutes apart.


----------



## EarlS

Keebler - I gotta ask before Kenny does. What kind of treats were you leaving behind you?


----------



## HokieKen

Must not have been the good ones. It was a Dodge that followed em ;-)


----------



## Keebler1

Another new toy


----------



## DavePolaschek

Devin, good work figuring that out. Sounded to me like a good plan, but I use shellac, too. I've always got a fairly fresh jar mixed up and on hand, or if not, it's time to mix a fresh jar. I buy flakes from Malcolm at the Shellac Shack and with all the bookcases I've been building, I'm getting the volume discount price.

I think I've got everything ready to ship, except for waiting for the finishes to dry. So I made a bowl and a birb while waiting.


----------



## GR8HUNTER

damn Keebler hit the lottery OR SOLD ALOT OF COOKIES :<)))


----------



## EricFai

Yea, shop time today. Working on the little bonus item, still a bit to mill, then fine tune the parts to fit good. Then it will be off to the finish. Still undecided about what type of finish to use, mineral oil, Danish oil, maybe shellac.


----------



## DevinT

If you've got my name, I prefer DO and say NO to shellac


----------



## EricFai

I have even thought about poly, but that will wear down with use. At least the oils can be reapplied.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I try to stay clear of shellac for tool finishes. I mostly stick with oil and maybe wax, depending on how the oil looks after I paw the tool in question. My main complaint about oils is that I prefer not to use ones with metallic driers, which means they take a good long while to cure. That's fine for stuff I'm going to use in my own shop, but for a swap, it can mess with a guy trying to ship by a deadline.

Speaking of deadline, two weeks from Monday. I expected to see at least one more *S* by now, based on the progress pictures….


----------



## JohnMcClure

Well Dave I could poop out an S today. 
See what I did there?
But I want to sand out a couple visible chiselmarks, and Kenny has me persuaded to add some decoration. I can do both, I think, but need to apply finish too and time is short. 
I'd be lucky to get an hour today, and an hour over the course of the week, to finish up. Recipient may end up without decorations, or with BLO still wet.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Imagine with the new spud in the house, there's plenty of pooping out going on around there, John. ;-)

I had thoughts about adding embellishments, but when I mentioned to my sweetie that I was getting close to being able to ship my swap project, she asked if I was going to finish up the bookcases next, or if it would be "more than two years" to build them all.

So I suspect I'm going to be shipping in the next day or two. And probably sitting out the beer swap.


----------



## EarlS

"more than 2 years"??? How many have you made? What else does she want you to work on? Sounds like retirement is a lot of hard work.

I'm off to the shop to work on the bench. Making mortises and tenons.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Well, it's been 20 months since we bought the house. Over a year since the shop has been done. And I've made 60 or so boxes. Got 6-12 more to build, depending on how many books I donate to the library as I continue to sort them. But I've been slacking and only build a dozen cases since this swap started, so she's getting antsy. Plus we have company coming his week, so it'll be another week on the calendar with no more bookcases built.


----------



## HokieKen

How big is your house Dave? Where the hell does one put 70 friggin book cases?!


----------



## DavePolaschek

I think the real estate listing said 2700 sq ft, Ken. And they're Jefferson Bookcases, so that's 60-some shelves, as each shelf is its own box. Here's the latest update with photos.

Turns out, I have a lot of books.


----------



## EricFai

Hey Dave, out of all those books, hopefully you have a lot of them related to woodworking.


----------



## HokieKen

Ahhh that makes more sense. I have seen your blog but I thought each stack was one case. Guess I should read instead of just looking at pictures every now and then


----------



## Lazyman

It's like Playboy Kenny.


----------



## HokieKen

I just looked through all 21 entries and I can sat with certainty that Dave's blog is nothing at all like Playboy.


----------



## Lazyman

Made ya look.


----------



## EarlS

Kenny got.Playboy for the articles.


----------



## DavePolaschek

There's two shelves that are just woodworking, Eric. Plus four that are art and design books.

Kenny, glad you could figure it out. Part of the deal with the stacks is that I have rearranged almost all of them at some point in the past year. "Oh, this box of books should be over with those…"

Nathan, I'm not sure whether you'll go blind of Kenny will. ;-)

Earl, I'm not sure how you knew that….


----------



## EricFai

Great day in the shop, finished up the bonus item. Only thing left is to get the finish coats of sealer on the items. Depending on the dry times, may ship within the week. Yea.


----------



## EarlS

> Nathan, I'm not sure whether you'll go blind of Kenny will. ;-)
> 
> Earl, I'm not sure how you knew that….
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


My money is on Kenny for the win. BTW, I was guessing that Kenny only read the articles, especially the ones on fashion. Where else could he get the idea for the green cape? Just don't get it near a black light.


----------



## bigblockyeti

> Must not have been the good ones. It was a Dodge that followed em ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


EcoBoost throttle bodies.


----------



## HokieKen

LOL. Well played Yeti ;-)


----------



## DavePolaschek

Eric, it's a good feeling having things pretty well wrapped up.

It's been a couple pretty productive shop days in between getting ready for company. Apparently one is expected to put clean sheets on the guest bed before a guest arrives. And sweep the floor of the guest room. And all sorts of crazy things like that. Who knew?!

Main item is done and ready to ship. I even swept the floor of the shop today, cleaning up scraps from sometime in April or May. Bonus item is in the clamps for its final glue-up, and tomorrow I'll sand or plane down any squeeze-out and hit it with some finish. Wednesday everything gets to dry and get packed in the evening, and Thursday it gets shipped. Or if something goes wrong, I'll fix it up late next week and still have time to ship before Grant does. 

I also get to re-fix one of our dining room chairs tomorrow. The dining room/poker table that Darafeev made sure looked nice, but they didn't anticipate the wood movement of going from Minnesota summers to New Mexico, and basically every joint in the furniture either came apart from the wood shrinking or broke the wood because the glue was stronger than the oak.


----------



## DevinT

I didn't make much progress over the past 2 days. Had to move my entire office from the 3rd floor to the 1st floor, 2 huge desks and a sofa-by myself. I did get 10 minutes in the shop yesterday to sand down a test board and the engraving on it looked exquisite, still, so I am proceeding to the last bit of Shaper Origin work before I put it away for the remainder of the swap.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Eh. I had no extra shop time yesterday, and this weekend is pretty much booked with family stuff.
I will have to settle for shipping a really nice and (I think) creative plane, without a bonus item or even fancy decorations. It is what it is. I'll be lucky to have time for the finish to dry before I ship.


----------



## EricFai

Dave, sounds like you got snookered into cleaning the house before the arrival of the guest, must be on your side of the family.

As for the shop, I hear ya about cleaning the floor, I finally picked up the few piles of saw dust and chips under the floor tools. I usually use the push broom at the end of the day, pushing for t under the tools.

Devin, maybe not much shop time, but you had your workout, 2 floors. Getting tired just thinking about that.

John, creative is good. Yea sometimes we get swamped with other plans, either ourselves or misses.

Still the swap is turning out the be a fun project. I should have made 2 on the bonus item. Hope I don't change my mind, but that wouldn't be nice of me neither. Can't wait to see what everyone has come up with. I think it's 3 weeks for reveal. Yippee.


----------



## DavePolaschek

It's my sweetie's friend who's coming, Eric. And my sweetie's been doing almost all the work, but things like changing sheets on the bed are easier with two people.

I generally clean up the shop pretty often, but with this swap, plus the other stuff I've had going on, it kinda got away from me. Be nice to drop off the box at QuikSend and reset a bit.

I've got a bluebird house to build for one of the neighbors next, and then it's back to bookcases until they're done, I think. Oh, plus fixing that dining room chair, but that should go pretty quick. It's one of the first ones I fixed, and I didn't wedge the dowel in the arm on it, and guess what came apart. Should be able to just take it apart, clean things up, saw a kerf in the end of the dowel, cut a wedge to the right length, and drive it all back together, wedging the dowel inside the mortise and it'll last this time. Maybe a couple hours total if nothing goes awry.


----------



## duckmilk

Hey, it's family John. They will understand you have a project to complete.

Eric, start on the second bonus item now, you still have time.

Gotta keep sweetie happy Dave.


----------



## EricFai

Duck, I will end up making another one. Just need to order a turning blank. I used a piece of Bloodwood, and I sure like the way it mills and it looks really pretty too.

A lady at work want a knitting bowl, so I need to place an order anyways.


----------



## DevinT

Got the engraving done on the bonus item, tried it out and it worked way better than expected. I am actually quite jealous now of the swap recipient. I don't have anything like this in my shop and now that I have access to one, I am afraid I might catch a case of sudden amnesia. Oh, was I supposed to send this somewhere? Now I know why they cost $800! Holy moly is it useful.


----------



## EarlS

This has nothing to do with the swap but….

I'm starting to think about the end caps for the roubo bench. The top is white oak. Bell Forest Products has some 5×5x12 chunks of lignum vitae ($65/ea + $20 shipping) that might work. I haven't seen much else that is big enough to make the end caps. Anyone know of other good sites that sell big chunks of wood?

Alternatively, does anyone have a couple pieces of oak firewood that would yield 4×4-1/2×16 pieces? I would gladly pay shipping and send a box of good thick scrap pieces along with the cash for the oak shipping cost. I'm also looking around here but haven't found a firewood seller to talk to.

I have some walnut still, but I think it is too soft to use for the end cap where the tail vise will be located.


----------



## bndawgs

Dang, I picked up some white oak logs, but had to cut them a little shorter than 16".


----------



## DavePolaschek

You could glue up tubafors or tubasixes, couldn't you, Earl? I can pretty easily buy 12/4 oak even at the lumber yard here in Santa Fe, and a couple of those glued together would be more than big enough. Heck, I've got about 5' of 12/4×8 inch wide white oak sitting in my shop for when I need new jaws on my twin-screw vise.


----------



## HokieKen

Lemme check tonight Earl. I had a couple pieces of 8×4 Oak left from my workbench build but I'm pretty sure it's all either gone or checked so bad it would have to be cut way down. I'll have a peek tonight.

In the meantime, poke Charles at sonorawoodworks. He's always got logs and keeps his sawmill running. He can likely cut something suitable to whatever size you want. Some AZ Eucalyptus would make nice contrast pieces.

FWIW though, I have Walnut chops on my leg vise and my end vise and have it for the end cap where my end vise is too and it's plenty strong and durable. Lignum would be super strong and nice looking too if you wanted to go that route.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Charles doesn't keep much of anything that thick sitting around usually but you can try him.

I probably have some mesquite and likely some eucalyptus logs that I could check Earl but I'm heading on vacation tomorrow morning so I wouldn't get anything shipped until next week.

On a side note, walnut should be plenty strong enough or is it just that particular walnut?


----------



## Lazyman

Earl, There is a small mill near me that cuts slabs and mantle pieces of local hardwoods that might have something like this but I am not sure if they sell small pieces or just slabs. I don't think that they would ship but you might check craigslist and other similar sites for a local guy like this. If you can find a kiln dried piece of hardwood that was cut to dimensions for a mantle for example, that might be perfect.


----------



## EarlS

Right, wrong, or otherwise, I always thought that walnut was too soft to use on something like the end cap of a bench. Now I have to think about it some more. The contrast between the oak and walnut would look pretty sweet. I still have some time before I have to figure this out. I'm still poking holes in the legs.


----------



## duckmilk

> I have Walnut chops on my leg vise and my end vise and have it for the end cap where my end vise is too and it's plenty strong and durable. Lignum would be super strong and nice looking too if you wanted to go that route.
> 
> - HokieKen





> On a side note, walnut should be plenty strong enough …
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


I agree with the above.


----------



## HokieKen

I understand your resistance after Dave and I said that Walnut will work Earl. But you can't deny it any longer. Remember the old saying : "If you buck the Duck it means you suck"


----------



## bndawgs

my buddy is finally upgrading to an Oneida supercell. He's going to sell his mini gorilla and dust cobra. I'm tempted by the mini gorilla, but I'm not sure that would be the right solution for me at the moment. It would definitely be a step up from my shop vac and dustopper. But would it be money well spent if I'm eventually going to get a bigger system?


----------



## donwilwol

Earl, when you figure out what you need ping me, I may have something. I just cut a bunch of beech. I've also got maple.

I agree walnut will be plenty strong.

Here are some elm planks I cut for a bridge repair


----------



## DavePolaschek

Well, we got another *S* and another *R* today. I got oil on the last bits that are getting oil, so tomorrow I can shellac the bits that are getting shellac, and hopefully ship on Thursday morning.

Remember to take pictures before you ship folks. It's kinda embarrassing to have to ask your recipient to take photos for you!


----------



## EarlS

> my buddy is finally upgrading to an Oneida supercell. He s going to sell his mini gorilla and dust cobra. I m tempted by the mini gorilla, but I m not sure that would be the right solution for me at the moment. It would definitely be a step up from my shop vac and dustopper. But would it be money well spent if I m eventually going to get a bigger system?
> 
> - Steve


I built, bought, used, and sold the whole gamut of dust collectors and settled with a Supercell since I don't have a lot of space in the shop. When I got rid of the hulking monster DIY DC, my requirements whittled the options fown to the mini gorilla and the supercell. Since the Supercell can also function as a shop vac I went with it. However, if you are looking for a good DC for a single person shop the mini gorilla should fit the bill nicely, especially if you can get if from your friend for a good price. Bigger is not always better in the DC world.


----------



## bndawgs

> my buddy is finally upgrading to an Oneida supercell. He s going to sell his mini gorilla and dust cobra. I m tempted by the mini gorilla, but I m not sure that would be the right solution for me at the moment. It would definitely be a step up from my shop vac and dustopper. But would it be money well spent if I m eventually going to get a bigger system?
> 
> - Steve
> 
> I built, bought, used, and sold the whole gamut of dust collectors and settled with a Supercell since I don t have a lot of space in the shop. When I got rid of the hulking monster DIY DC, my requirements whittled the options fown to the mini gorilla and the supercell. Since the Supercell can also function as a shop vac I went with it. However, if you are looking for a good DC for a single person shop the mini gorilla should fit the bill nicely, especially if you can get if from your friend for a good price. Bigger is not always better in the DC world.
> 
> - EarlS


I'm assuming the mini gorilla would be a better option over the dust cobra?


----------



## bndawgs

$900 for the mini gorilla. Think that's worth it?


----------



## EarlS

The dust cobra seems to be more of a contractor job site shop vac. How old is the mini gorilla - $900 might be a little high, but still not terrible, IMO.


----------



## bndawgs

It has the Bluffton motor on it, so it's not that old. I'm wondering about the noise level from it. I've read some reviews that it's pretty loud. Brand new they are $1500.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Four *S*es now, and two *R*s.

Reminder, if you send me an "I shipped!" email, including the tracking number means I'll be able to track packages too, and won't necessarily have to wait for the recipient to say "I got it!" before I put up that *R*

Or not. But if I have a tracking number, I'll generally keep an eye on the package.


----------



## EricFai

I should get mine shipped out the week yet. But yes I'll send you the info. Thanks Dave for running the swap.


----------



## DevinT

I finally got to the part of the swap where I get to set up the router table, one of the favorite things I have made that I love to use.


----------



## DevinT

Being my first plane, AND first swap, the amount of anxiety has been exceedingly high throughout the entire thing, and ever-increasing as I near the finish line. I will be very very glad when I start to put the finish on (last 2 steps). Let's see, I've done so much in the past few days, I can't even list it all. Easier for me to list the things that are left to do:

1. Shape brass
2. Epoxy brass piece to the plane
3. Epoxy accent feature to the plane
4. Epoxy brass piece to the lever cap
5. A super light sanding with 400 grit on the plane
6. Take the bonus item to the bench sander
7. Roundover the bonus item
8. Lightly sand the bonus item with 400 grit
9. Touch-up flattening
10. Touch-up sharpening
11. Mineral Spirits
12. Danish Oil
13. Beeswax & Lavender emulsion

Wow. I'm down to just a baker's dozen number of steps. I can't even stop to think about the number of steps I've completed thus far. I've got to keep my eyes on the prize. Deadline is a week from this coming Monday. If I keep up my current pace, I'll finish early. That's perfect, because I don't want to be the last one to ship, holding up the reveal ^_^


----------



## DevinT

Past couple days I've been waking up around 3-4A to get the necessary shop time to knock out as many steps as I can each day.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Remember that this is supposed to be fun, Devin. ;-)

Sounds like you've got a manageable list left. And if you ship on time, you're fine.


----------



## duckmilk

I hope you have taken pictures of the process Devin for your project post. The guys like pictures.


----------



## DevinT

Pictures, video, time-lapse, ... I've captured a few aspects. Not everything. Like I'm not filming too much right now because I'm in a rush to get as many steps done as I can (without making any mistakes).

Just got finished shaping the brass. Wow. I'm so glad I did that. It looks 10x better than the crap brass that Lee Valley gives you in their kit.


----------



## duckmilk

> If I keep up my current pace, I ll finish early. That s perfect, because I don t want to be the last one to ship, holding up the reveal ^_^
> 
> - DevinT


No worries. There is someone else that will probably be the last one to ship


----------



## Keebler1

Devin don't worry if you ship at the last possible hour Grant will still be last to ship


----------



## DevinT

Oh, so there is time to start that second bonus item after all? Hehe


----------



## HokieKen

If you don't have to overnight your package the night before reveals, you'll beat Grant.


----------



## DevinT

Wow. Is that because Grant usually turns out such amazing items for the swap that take to the very last second?


----------



## DevinT

Got some steps done on my walk across the finish line …

(possibly today)
1. A super light sanding with 400 grit on the plane
2. Epoxy accent feature to the plane
(wait until tomorrow for paint to dry on the bonus item)
(possibly tomorrow)
3. Take the bonus item to the bench sander
4. Roundover the bonus item
5. Lightly sand the bonus item with 400 grit
6. Touch-up flattening
7. Touch-up sharpening
8. Mineral Spirits
(dry overnight)
(possibly Saturday)
9. Danish Oil
(dry overnight)
(possibly Sunday)
10. Beeswax & Lavender emulsion

So I could have the plane finished 8 days early if I keep to the above schedule.

Of course, I still have to spackle the nursery, buy some TSP, wash the walls, buy some paint, paint the nursery, assemble baby furniture, put a bed together for the mother in-law that is coming to stay, and all-the-while keep the spouse happy, fed, and attended-to.

No wonder I'm stressed during this swap. Never built a plane before, and the plane I designed is a tad complex.


----------



## DevinT

I'm getting SO EXCITED! This plane is amazing! I feel like I'm sprinting to finish it just so that I can play with it before I have to send it. Maybe *that* is why Grant ships at the last second. He wants to use the plane for as long as he can before he has to relinquish it.


----------



## DevinT

Did I mention that I plan on trotting this thing around town when I finish it? Going to show it off to 3 neighbors that have been following the build as well as the folks at the local MacBeath and the manufacturer that is making my parts for my future plane models.


----------



## DevinT

Decided I'm going to call it a day and just let the epoxy fully cure before moving on. Might still make Sunday for a finish.

*EDIT:* and then she realized there is a baby shower on Saturday. Maybe she can just hide in the shop after making a brief appearance.


----------



## Keebler1

Your doing all the hard work painting and putting together baby furniture make your husband attend the baby shower while you work in the shop or tell everybody the shower is them helping you with the plane


----------



## HokieKen

I'll see your baby shower and raise you a baby. Temporary foster placement until Monday. 








My wife is a lot more excited about it than I am…

Good thing I dropped out. I'd be in trouble if I had a baby and a plane to finish this weekend ;-)


----------



## Keebler1

That's why you are married Kenny the wife takes care of the baby while you play in the shop


----------



## HokieKen

First part is spot on Keebler. Second part, not so much. Can't remeber the last time I spent a day in the shop…


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> Wow. Is that because Grant usually turns out such amazing items for the swap that take to the very last second?
> 
> - DevinT


It's because Grant will start his swap project a week from Saturday probably.


----------



## DevinT

Dang, that's skill!


----------



## JohnMcClure

Kenny.
So thrilled for you guys. Tons of work, yes, but it makes you grow.

Now I guess I shouldn't have felt bad if I'd dropped out lol!


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> Dang, that's skill!
> 
> - DevinT


I don't think procrastination is considered a skill.

We love Grant, he's like a little step brother that has to go to a special school on a special little bus.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Yeah, but he gets to wear a hockey helmet even in the summer, Dave! How cool is that?


----------



## Lazyman

Kenny, get out of the recliner so you wife doesn't have to sit on the floor.


----------



## duckmilk

> Wow. Is that because Grant usually turns out such amazing items for the swap that take to the very last second?
> 
> - DevinT


No, it's because he takes pride in being the last to ship. It's a bragging right thing ;-)

That is a wonderful thing you and your wife are doing Kenny. Where's her cape?


----------



## bndawgs

She probably didn't want to wear hers and get baby drool all over it.


----------



## HokieKen

She doesn't wear her cape when it's muggy outside. So she'll put it back on around November.


----------



## HokieKen

There's two recliners Nathan. She's worried about the drool bag leaking on the suede ;-)


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Wrong thread….


----------



## DevinT

Updated remaining steps (this is as much for me as it is for others; I'm using this comment to remind myself what needs to be done, and in what order):

(possible today)
1. Roundover the bonus item
2. Card-scrape and sand the bonus item with 400 grit
3. Touch-up flattening
4. Touch-up sharpening
5. 91% isopropyl alcohol (ain't nobody got time for mineral spirits to dry)
6. Danish Oil
(dry overnight)
(possible tomorrow)
7. Beeswax & Lavender emulsion (everywhere but the plane sole)
8. Paste wax (plane sole)


----------



## Woodmaster1

> I'll see your baby shower and raise you a baby. Temporary foster placement until Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My wife is a lot more excited about it than I am…
> 
> Good thing I dropped out. I'd be in trouble if I had a baby and a plane to finish this weekend ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


My wife and I did foster care for 10years. We had around 35+ children and adopted a sibling group of three. My fellow teachers thought I was nuts to adopt but you can't let them go after 3 years and they weren't going back to the parents. Best satisfaction was they graduated two years ago and are employed. They made our older kids jealous. They said we pampered them more.


----------



## HokieKen

Most of 'em deserve some pampering in light of their origins WM1. Few things make me as angry as learning what some of these kids were removed from. They told my wife where this one came from and it was bad enough that she won't even tell me. Lil dude is as happy as he can be though. Kids' resilience is remarkable.


----------



## DevinT

Can't wait for mine to arrive.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Good thing I dropped out. I'd be in trouble if I had a baby and a plane to finish this weekend ;-)
> - HokieKen


Not an expert, but pretty sure you don't finish babies?

Anyway, you need to make some furniture for the wife to sit on.


----------



## EarlS

> Can t wait for mine to arrive.
> 
> - DevinT


your first - correct??


----------



## Keebler1

Kenny why not just adopt this baby. You know now that your wife is gonna want another one after taking care of this one


----------



## HokieKen

My wife always wants another one. Which is precisely why I won't adopt any of them…


> ...
> 
> Anyway, you need to make some furniture for the wife to sit on.
> 
> - MikeB_UK


Nah, except when she's tending to a kid I don't let her out of the kitchen.

;-)


----------



## Lazyman

Haven't had any teasers for a while. This one is a puzzle, If you can reconstruct from the remnants you can figure out what I am making or at least the shape of it. 









EDIT:

And as a reward for finally getting it to cut as it should, I decided to warm up for the beer swap. Coppery goodness from NM:


----------



## DevinT

> Can t wait for mine to arrive.
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> your first - correct??
> 
> - EarlS


Yes. First one. Maybe not last.


----------



## DevinT

Lazyman, I have to say, that doesn't look like plane parts


----------



## EarlS

> Lazyman, I have to say, that doesn t look like plane parts
> 
> - DevinT


Maybe Nathan dropped it and it broke?? Of course, he could be helping Grant out…..


----------



## duckmilk

> Wrong thread….
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


I think you're right ;-)


----------



## DevinT

Updated remaining steps:

(Saturday)
1. Touch-up sole flatness
2. 91% isopropyl alcohol
3. Danish Oil
(dry overnight)
(Sunday)
5. Beeswax & Lavender emulsion (everywhere but the plane sole)
6. Paste wax (plane sole)
7. Touch-up blade sharpness
(Monday)
TEST DRIVE


----------



## EricFai

Test drive, are you rebuilding a car!


----------



## Keebler1

From all the steps she's listing she might as well be.


----------



## Lazyman

> Lazyman, I have to say, that doesn t look like plane parts
> 
> - DevinT


Maybe not but still an important part of the "finish".


----------



## DevinT

I can sort of see a blade bed, a heel, maybe a toe in there. Not really sure. It's a good puzzle, but I get a feeling it's going to be pretty. What kind of wood is that?


----------



## DevinT

Eric, well, with 33 parts total, of which 12 are moving parts, it might as well be a car. I was told it actually looks like one. I'm thinking hot rod. The design took hundreds of hours and required physics, trigonometry, geometry, and sheer grit. I half-expected something absolutely horrible to go wrong that I couldn't recover from. However, I've thus far been able to recover from every mistake gracefully and keep the project on-schedule.

I have been very careful not to get excited ahead of time, but I am utterly astonished that I made this thing. I think I am partially in a state of shock. When it is finished, I will probably just stare at it for an hour straight.


----------



## EricFai

You go Devin. Waiting for the reveal to see what you have designed.


----------



## Lazyman

The wood is what I call ambrosia hickory. It is some special stuff that I have been hording for a while and is the last piece of any size I had left. The tree died during a drought about 6 years ago and I helped my neighbor cut it down. The spalting comes from some ambrosia beetles that had borrowed in while it was still on the stump. This was the first log that I milled into boards when I first got my band saw. It is hard but easy to work and polishes up to a silky smooth finish so is great for tools and handles. It almost doesn't need any sort of finish but some Tried and True Varnish Oil really brings out the grain. I have used this stuff in several of my posted projects over the years. A marking knife, awl and set of squares (from my first swap), Worm Caller, a skew shoulder plane (for another swap), and even one of a pair beer mugs I made for friends.

I can't bring myself to throw away the scraps in the picture above. I am trying to figure a way to use them.


----------



## EricFai

I am thinking that you might start getting into model building, in the styles of early model cars. I see a body front and rear and what could be used as fenders.


----------



## Lazyman

I have actually been thinking about making a Model T pickup model for a buddy who is in the process of restoring one.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Nathan, a lot of those scraps look like they'd turn down to be handles for turning saws or files, and there's a few that look like they could become carved birbs, too. Definitely don't throw them away!

Devin, it sounds like you've had a very fun and productive first swap. Glad you enjoyed it so far!


----------



## Keebler1

Nathan glue them together and turn them into pens or handles for something


----------



## JohnMcClure

Dave wants to try his hand at carving hickory. Am I crazy, or is he? Hickory is rock hard stuff!


----------



## DavePolaschek

I've worked hickory before, John. Scary sharp hand tools are significantly harder than any wood. Heck, I've carved seasoned ash, so how hard could it be? ;-)


----------



## GR8HUNTER

> I have actually been thinking about making a Model T pickup model for a buddy who is in the process of restoring one.
> 
> - Lazyman


*DO IT :<)))*

THE MOST FUN YOU CAN HAVE WITH YOUR PANTS ON


----------



## DavePolaschek

Got another R for the list.


----------



## DavePolaschek

And another S.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Another couple of weeks and Grant can get a capital P


----------



## DavePolaschek

Exactly, Mike. But we still love him.


----------



## HokieKen

Exactly Mike. Dave still loves him.


----------



## DevinT

Wait, now I am worried. By the rules, the reveal is after the last R? Potentially when Grant's is received by some unlucky participant that has to wait 3-4 weeks after the deadline?


----------



## HokieKen

Reveals are on June 28 unless everybody gets an R first.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

No, Grant will over night the package the day before reveal day and his recipient will get it and post there's later that day.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> Exactly Mike. DaveP still loves him.
> 
> - HokieKen


Fixed that


----------



## EarlS

Ya'll are just jealous of Grant's toys, and Bo. ;P

I do have to admit Grant has been rather quiet of late.


----------



## DavePolaschek

As Kenny said, reveals are on the 28th, unless we all have *R*s before then.

Heck, we already have our first person who's wrapped up, with over a week to go.


----------



## bndawgs

Finally got my son's new door hung. Apparently I took so long that my wife didn't even care about painting in the inside edge after I had trimmed it to width. lol


----------



## DevinT

In about 6 hours the 3rd coat of Danish Oil will be dry. I've got a week to ship and only 3 steps after this. I may or may not put on a few more coats of DO depending on how the finish dries. Looking for a satin feel.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Got another *R*, though I guess it's post-dated.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Satin feel:
Devin, do you have a random orbit sander?
I have one, and then discovered MicroMesh sanding discs for it.
Theres a grit level that gets you to a satin feel- it's fine, but not the finest grit they have. 
I recommend trying it between coats of DO.
Not for this project tho - you're too close to the end and put in too much work as it is to try out a new product!


----------



## DevinT

For sure. I know how this project will turn out. I usually keep layering on the DO in successive coats until the dry time to where it is no longer tacky between rubbings increases beyond a day. However, it looks like the humidity right now is *NOT* going to cooperate with me. What normally takes 24h to dry is looking like a 2-day drying time. I think I'm going to cut it at 3 coats of DO and go straight to waxing and sharpening the blade. Normally I would put 9 coats of DO on my products. People are usually taken aback when tell them I put *nine* coats on, but then I ask them, have you ever put 9 coats of Danish Oil on something? I have. It's astounding the way it feels. However, you need supreme patience and you have to baby sit the wood almost all day, going down to the shop once-an-hour to wipe down excess. I did my plane handles this way, and I just love holding them. Versus, say, some vintage planes I pick up and I feel like I need to wash my hands after I use them and I can't wait to put them down. I've never sanded in-between coats of DO before. I don't know if that would compete with my 9-coats finish or if it would improve it further (or reduce the number of coats). I'll have to try it sometime.

Thanks John.


----------



## DevinT

So, I showed my dad pictures of the plane and this was his response:

"You do exceptional work, putting your OCD to good use. Hope you got the nursery spackled."

Uh, thanks, … I think? I don't think I have OCD (maybe some would disagree). I just think I am detailed in what I do. And yes, I got the nursery spackled.


----------



## EricFai

Sounds like you need to get the nursery painted.


----------



## DevinT

That's the next step. Finished the plane today and got it all reassembled, and last step is to resharpen the blade.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Sounds like you're in good shape, Devin! Good work for a newbie. Heck, good work for a veteran.

Hope everyone's in the home stretch at this point. Not too many more days to go.


----------



## Lazyman

Plan D (or was it E?) was successful, though not without some swearing. I finally figured out that my sharpening process was flawed. I think that I will be ready to take my pictures and ship in the next day or 2. Just trying to decide whether I need or want to put one more coat of finish on my bonus item.


----------



## EarlS

Devin - I'm amazed that you can get DO to dry that quickly. Normally, it takes me 48-72 hours with several rubdowns to get any excess oil off or else the finish will be tacky in a few weeks. I've even resorted to the oven a couple of times (wife was gone so I could).


----------



## HokieKen

I never had much luck with commercial Danish Oil for the same reason Earl. A homemade blend of BLO, poly and MS works well for me though. I'm not sure what the difference is unless I just thin mine a lot more than the commercial blends. Eventually I decided to just do oil first then when that is fully cured, use wipe-on poly on top. I have found that exotic woods don't generally do well with an oil/varnish mixture. I think the oils in the wood prevent the oil in the finish from penetrating fast enough.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Nice, Nathan. Figured you'd get there in the end.

I've never been a big DO fan either, but that's mostly because I can get a finish I like either with just oil or oil with something else. But commercial finishes in general seem to be thicker than I generally use. Probably so newbies can build a finish more quickly. But hey, whatever works.


----------



## Lazyman

Tried and True Varnish Oil works well for me. I don't use a lot of oily exotics but it has worked great on desert ironwood and ipe. it is heat polymerized linseed oil (no chemical driers) with a little resin for protection. I've never had it get tacky, even when I have rushed it between coats. The full cure does take a few days but I never get any tackiness. I love the stuff, especially on hand tools. Just enough sheen to look like it has a finish but doesn't feel like it. I even apply multiple coats on the lathe like a friction finish for turned tool handles with only a short rest between coats. The heat seems to make it cure more quickly. It is more expensive than other BLO and DO but my last (first) quart lasted about 6 years. The last 1/2" in the can started to harden, probably because the the lid no longer sealed properly. If I had transferred it into a smaller jar, I would probably still be using it up.


----------



## DevinT

My spouse says most planes look like tape dispensers. It gave me great pleasure when I was told my plane looks instead like a race car.


----------



## DevinT

Regarding tackiness of Watco DO from the store:

Small can of Watco from BORG: exactly as you describe.

Large can of Watco from Amazon: no problems and acts as I describe.

The difference is immediately noticeable when you open it and put some on a rag. The stuff from BORG is thick. The stuff from Amazon is thin.

You can make the thick stuff cooperate with beeswax after a 2-day cure. You just can't put on as many coats. Comes out decent still, just not stellar in my opinion like the good Danish Oil (not all Watco is created equal; I find those small cans to be less than perfect but workable).


----------



## DevinT

The best though, is when you create your own Danish Oil using a BLO, Poly, and MS. Watco uses a thinner like acetone so it tends to melt thin paint if you are applying it over an infill, where as DO made with MS is harmless to the infill.


----------



## doubleG469

So, if I am not able to pull off a miracle (this thing has been a pain in the A$$) what's the acceptable level of monetary restitution for my recipient. Being it should equate to the level of work attempted. By the looks of the pieces on my table, I'm thinking $1.68? Sounds reasonable.

LOL


----------



## DavePolaschek

Gary, I felt that way a couple weeks ago, then everything came together… it isn't my best work, but it's done and shipped and my recipient seemed to not hate it, so yay!

I figure you've got a miracle in there somewhere. And I'm pretty sure your recipient is going to be happy as long as you gave it a good shot. Most of us here are pretty reasonable sorts, right?

As for monetary value, I have no idea. In my case, the whole was probably worth less than the parts, but my recipient can always take it apart and reuse the pieces, right? I just framed a printed photo and I'm pretty sure I've got somewhere north of $100 in value just in the wood, paper, ink and glass. I thought about signing up for the neighborhood art show but I'm pretty sure I don't really want to know what someone would be willing to pay for that sort of thing, even once I take it apart again and get the good glass in there and get the print lined up right.


----------



## GrantA

I drove this all the way to Ohio and back, been there the past week!









Found myself in the middle of a corn field at a wedding, the damnedest thing- look what was growing in the field!









As for why I ship last I think Duck is mostly right, bragging rights. Shipping last but not being the last R is the goal ;-p
Also Dave K is right, procrastination. Or maybe I just don't want to give the post office or any ground services the pleasure of playing dodgeball with my packages, I give it the vip treatment with air travel. The world may never know…


----------



## DevinT

Who will it be, nobody knows! But this is what it looks like right now:

1 Grant → Lazyman ?
2 Grant → Dave ?
3 Grant → John ?
4 Grant → Eric ?
5 Grant → drsurfrat ?


----------



## duckmilk

> I drove this all the way to Ohio and back, been there the past week!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - GrantA


With one more row of seats, that bus could have hauled all us kids to elementary and Jr high. Most times we rode in a yellow station wagon.


----------



## duckmilk

Just got off the phone with my accountant's assistant, taxes are still not done GRRRRR. I gave them my stuff at the end of February and said (numerous times) I don't need any extra time, just get it done. Fuming and drinking beer.


----------



## Keebler1

Grant stop posting that bus youre giving kenny flashbacks to his childhood


----------



## GrantA

Duck I've heard that a lot. I somehow didn't have to hock anything to pay in this year, guess they figure they stole enough last year


----------



## DevinT

duck, same situation here. Gave them taxes and still not done yet!


----------



## duckmilk

I just don't get it. We were given all this extra time and the accountant must have gotten lazy. His assistant said he was on vacation and would be back tomorrow, WHAT???


----------



## Woodmaster1

I gave my accountant my stuff in January and it was filed in January. Being retired and doing my own taxes makes it easy when pension, social security and occasional subbing at the Vocational school is your only income. I do all my 6 kids taxes as well all done by February.


----------



## GR8HUNTER

> I just don t get it. We were given all this extra time and the accountant must have gotten lazy. His assistant said he was on vacation and would be back tomorrow, WHAT???
> 
> - duckmilk


he used your refund :<(((((((((((


----------



## DevinT

I weighed my plane today. 1.95 lbs. Is that a good weight?


----------



## EricFai

Devin, looks like you may an inside scoop there.

Now as for my taxes, filed back in February and refunds 2 weeks later. Figured I would try to beat the rush. Sorry for the folks that waited for the last minute, but dies sound like the tax guys are on vacation, they didn't receive that memo.


----------



## Lazyman

Being retired definitely simplified my taxes. Takes about 15 minutes with turbo tax. No fuming here. Just drinking beer.


----------



## bndawgs

I just got a bill from the IRS. Amazingly, it's the same amount that I sent in for an estimated payment. Dummies can't put 2 and 2 together apparently.


----------



## DevinT

Eric, I used math to get the inside edge. Specifically:

$ cmb -k 2 {,}{Dave,Gary,WM1,John,Eric,Devin,Maker,drsurfrat,Grant,Lazyman} |
awk '$1!=$2&&!_[$0]++{print $1,"->",$2,"?"}' |
grep -v -e{Dave,WM1,Eric,drsurfrat,Maker}" ->" -e"-> "{Gary,WM1,Devin,Maker} |
awk '{print ++_[$1],$0}'

Which produces the following in 0.018s:

1 Gary → John ?
2 Gary → Eric ?
3 Gary → drsurfrat ?
4 Gary → Grant ?
5 Gary → Lazyman ?
6 Gary → Dave ?
1 John → Eric ?
2 John → drsurfrat ?
3 John → Grant ?
4 John → Lazyman ?
5 John → Dave ?
1 Devin → drsurfrat ?
2 Devin → Grant ?
3 Devin → Lazyman ?
4 Devin → Dave ?
5 Devin → John ?
6 Devin → Eric ?
1 Grant → Lazyman ?
2 Grant → Dave ?
3 Grant → John ?
4 Grant → Eric ?
5 Grant → drsurfrat ?
1 Lazyman → Dave ?
2 Lazyman → John ?
3 Lazyman → Eric ?
4 Lazyman → drsurfrat ?
5 Lazyman → Grant ?

In essence, combine all meaningful permutations and subtract all the senders that have already sent and subtract all the recipients that have already received, then display the remaining possibilities.


----------



## DevinT

Of course, some relationships were given away when Dave announced them in proximity to each other. Or is he perhaps a fan of subterfuge and is announcing things at a creative pace to confuse the situation?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Mostly I announce things as I find out about them. Some folks send me a note when they ship. Sometimes I find out they shipped because I see a note from someone saying "I got toys!"

In at least one case, I knew there was an *R* because USPS told me it was sitting on a front porch.

For my taxes, I sent my accountant a stack of papers. He sent me a stack of papers in return. Then I sent a couple big checks to various governments.


----------



## EricFai

Computer programmer, you wrote your own swl query, I think. But that is good.

Which way did you figure? Did Dave match one on one with the swap? Or did Dave create a round robin so the receiver is not shipping to the one whom sent theirs. Or was the received picked by the roll of the dice, drawing a card, picking the name out of the hat? I would be interesting to hear from Dave on how he determines who each of us are shipping to. But I guess that is his well kept secret.

But we only have 2 weeks for that reveal.

My own math skills are good, but that ends up getting to deep for me. I took course heated towards network engineer years ago, but then decided that I would always be in school just to stay on top of the ever changing technology. So I ended that and started working in manufacturing. After getting bored with that it was back into the construction trades, been there ever since and love it.


----------



## duckmilk

You are way more technical than me Devin. I usually wait for the reveals to find out who sent to whom.


----------



## EricFai

Dave, I think you are doing a fine job running this swap. Looking forward to the next tool swap, but with summer upon us I might have to skip the next one. But I will have to see, it is addictive. And fun reading the post during the process.

Oh, the bunny's we chase.


----------



## EricFai

Duckmilk, agreed, so much easier


----------



## duckmilk

> Which way did you figure? Did Dave match one on one with the swap? Or did Dave create a round robin so the receiver is not shipping to the one whom sent theirs. Or was the received picked by the roll of the dice, drawing a card, picking the name out of the hat? I would be interesting to hear from Dave on how he determines who each of us are shipping to. But I guess that is his well kept secret.
> 
> - Eric


Dave's sweetie pulls names out of a hat.


----------



## Keebler1

You wont want to skip the next one its either the bbq swap or the beer swap


----------



## DevinT

Eric, that's not a query. It took me 30 years to write the program that I used to produce that answer (which also currently happens to be the fastest tool in the World for answering questions involving combinatorics). It derives its speed from using a novel algorithm that I developed (that's the part that took 30 years; not the programming part, but first developing the algorithm in the late 80's and early 90's, followed by 5 years of refinement and then finally about 15 years to complete the code; which is now open-sourced and available in a few Operating Systems).

I don't know what algorithm Dave used. You'll have to ask him.


----------



## DevinT

My math tool is comprised of two parts. A library and a utility and I ported it to many languages including Python and Perl, as seen here


----------



## duckmilk

Sorry for hijacking the swap thread, but last note on the tax thingy. Our personal taxes are done, but my business taxes are not, which have to be rolled into my personal, not complicated. The accountant just dropped the ball on this one.

Dave, you've done a fine job. Let's go back to the swap ))


----------



## duckmilk

You also type much faster than me Devin ;-) I'm still drinking beer.


----------



## EricFai

We need more good mathematicians in the world, preferably in government so us as taxpayers get to keep our money. Just saying


----------



## HokieKen

I was one course shy of having a math minor with my degree. I had two options of courses I could take my senior year that would have fulfilled an engineering elective as well as the math requirement. Combinatorial Math or Math Theory.

I took Biomimetics.

Like a lot of people, I always considered myself good at math. Then I met people that were actually good at math…


----------



## EricFai

Ken, I agree, I have meet a few folks that are real good at math, and can give an answer before you finish the problem. Some of those folks can be scary. But I have to look at like ok they are good folks and they will go far in life.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm frankly just jealous of their ability Eric. It's not so much the ability to work the problem I envy but rather the ability that some have to identify a problem that isn't apparent then go about deriving a way to work towards an answer for it. They make me feel like the kid in the corner wearing a helmet with a crayon doing differential equations and Fourier transforms.


----------



## DevinT

I would pay good money to see video not only of the unboxing of my plane, but the recipient trying to figure out how to use it. I had some fun with the boxing-up and I also designed a plane that works unlike a traditional American, European, Slovakian, or Japanese plane, but rather borrowing from all of them.

Yes, there is a proper way to hold it and drive it but I want to see if they discover it right away.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> I would be interesting to hear from Dave on how he determines who each of us are shipping to.


I had a program on my iPhone roll a ten sided die for me. Then for each of the ten people in the swap, if the number wasn't their own number, and hadn't been assigned yet, I assigned it, else I "rolled" again.

Easy enough to do, and it only took 15 or 16 rolls to get all ten of us assigned.

In previous swaps I had names on pieces of paper in a hat, but I figured I was going "high tech" this time.

Maybe next time we'll have 20 people and I'll use my dartboard. Or have 12 and I'll build a dodecahedron.


----------



## GrantA

Alright guys and gal, any of you familiar with Maine? 
I'm trying to put a long weekend together for mid August, for my wife's 11th 29th birthday ;-p
Thinking about flying into Portland, staying one night there (where though?) then going up to Bar Harbor for a night or two before heading back to Portland for the return flight. Good lobster and drinks within walking distance are musts.


----------



## DavePolaschek

BigShooter (who was in a previous swap) lives mid-coast Maine. Belfast, IIRC.

I'm familiar with the area. Summer up there, highway 1 gets busy and you'll spend a lot of time sitting in traffic if you're trying to drive any significant distance along the coast on a weekend. Doing it on a holiday weekend… well, I wouldn't advise it.

If you're flying in and out of Portland, Rockland is the closest nice coastal point. Or maybe Bath, but that's still going to have a bunch of weekend traffic. Bar Harbor on a holiday weekend will be a full day's drive. Not sure about you, but I'm pretty sure spending two days of a long weekend sitting in traffic wouldn't win me any points with my sweetie.

Best lobster roll I've had was in a gas station in Thomaston (first town south of Rockland). Lie-Nielsen's shop is in Warren, which is just a couple miles up the road. There's a nice marina with a waterside restaurant in Rockland where we spent a few happy evenings.


----------



## Lazyman

> Lie-Nielsen's shop is in Warren, which is just a couple miles up the road. There's a nice marina with a waterside restaurant in Rockland where we spent a few happy evenings.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


I am sure that he will win big points with his sweetie taking her to a Lie-Nilesen shop on her birthday trip.


----------



## GrantA

Thanks Dave! Definitely not going on a holiday weekend.

I've seen a lot of airbnbs in Portsmouth pulling up on the "Portland and vicinity" search, not sure which way to go yet though

Does the LN shop have a spa for her? Or lobster and drinks? I could make it happen if so bahaha
I'd love to leave my fingerprints on some tools there for sure but I can live without, I've got my eye on another AK fishing trip next summer so this will be a trip focused on *her* not me
With that said I may need to check out the LN operation for business development anyways hehe


----------



## HokieKen

Bar Harbor and Acadia National Park were my favorite stop on a NE fall cruise a few years ago. Lots of good food and stuff to see. Not really near Portland like Dave said though and definitely not where you want to be when you don't want to have to drive. I haven't spent any significant time in Maine but I definitely plan to spend more fall vacations there in the future. Lots of cool stuff. And for Yankess, the people are really nice too ;-)


----------



## GrantA

Hmm OK maybe I can fly in or out of Bangor which is near Bar Harbor and Rockland. Thanks keep em coming


----------



## DavePolaschek

The lobster rolls were at the Pik Qwik in Thomaston.










Bar Harbor and Acadia are beautiful, but they're not even really a day trip from Rockland on a weekend. I think Rockland to Bar Harbor is about 3 hours if you're doing it pre-dawn on a weekday. My main point is that traffic on Hwy 1 is slow. 25 mph in towns, and 45 or 50 in between, but it's all two-lane, and all it takes is one asshole in an RV to scrape a tree or stop to gawp at the scenery and the whole thing comes to a halt.

The LLBean store in Freeport is a destination if you're around Portland. If you're staying in Rockport or Belfast, going down there, shopping and heading back is the best part of a day. Learned *that* the hard way.

Compared to out here in the west, Maine is tiny. But all the roads are correspondingly slower there.

Belfast has BigShooter, plus a walkable downtown. If there's a nice place to stay there, I would recommend it for a weekend. Rockland is another good base. Both have a few things that are easy drives to go see, and you can relax and eat and drink close to places to stay. Or catch a ferry out to one of the islands. Vinal Haven and North Haven are both beautiful, and walkable if you can find a place to stay on them. Ferry leaves from Rockland daily, IIRC.

Flying in and out of Bangor will definitely save you on road time, but I'm pretty sure you'll have to transfer flights. I know folks who fly in and out of Boston and just figure they'll burn a day on traffic, which is maybe more pleasant than spending a day in airports. Or maybe not.


----------



## HokieKen

I sure did love them Lobster Rolls. We were in Maine for 2 days and I'm pretty sure I had half dozen of them )


----------



## DevinT

Dave, maybe you'd like to go ultra-high-tech with the swap participant selections. The following code can handle a list of 100 participants in *0.35 seconds* (or God forbid, you have 1,000 participants, the code can give you a list of who-ships-to-whom in about *36 seconds*):

#!/bin/bash
declare -a name Rl S R
n=0 s=0
while read LINE; do
n=$(( n + 1 ))
name[$n]="$LINE" 
done
while [ $s -lt ${#name[@]} ]; do # For each participant as a sender
s=$(( s + 1 )) x=0 n=0 Rl=( )
while [ $x -lt ${#name[@]} ]; do
x=$(( x + 1 ))
[ $x -ne $s ] || continue
Rs=${S[$x]} # Recipient sender
[ "$Rs" ] && continue # Recipient already has sender
n=$(( n + 1 ))
Rl[$n]=$x
done
if [ ${#Rl[@]} -gt 0 ]; then
R[$s]=${Rl[$((((RANDOM<<15>


----------



## MikeB_UK

Kenny is up next with the beer swap.

Will the code work if it's wrote on a beermat?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Devin, I don't have a computer that can run a shell right now. I'm iOS-only since retirement, and happier that way. I have a PineBook Pro, but it can't reliably connect to ipv6 servers, so it's currently bricked by an install that failed half way through and I don't have another box to burn an SD card to do a clean reinstall. Oh well.

Kenny, they're good. And the ones at Pik Qwik we're the best around according to multiple natives. I don't remember how many we had in our week there, but it was more than we had ice-cream cones from the stand just across the street from our hotel, which is saying something.

Edit to add: got another *S*


----------



## DevinT

Dave, life without a shell?! How do you live?


----------



## JohnMcClure

I would use Excel RAND to assign a random number, or use the second/3rd digit of everyone's street address, or any other random/pseudorandom sort criteria;
Sort the list of names by the random variable;
Then simply make everyone in the list ship to the next member in the list, and the last member ships to the first.
Even with 1000 participants it would be quick, easy, unpredictable and fair. Right?


----------



## HokieKen

That's pretty much how I've aleays done it John.


----------



## EarlS

This discussion sounds like a solution in need of a problem. A hat, scraps of paper with the participant's names, draw them out - first name sends to second name, second to third and so on. Last name out sends to first name. Drink some beer as you go along.

As an engineer, I'm more interested in solving the problem and moving to the next one than making it more complicated…..... just sayin' :+)


----------



## doubleG469

Has anyone else come to the realization that Devin is way too smart for this group?


----------



## DevinT

Well, I work at a place that demands finding scalable solutions.

I just reworked my solution to use bash internals only to pick up some more speed.

This solution can handle 1,000 participants in 23 seconds and doesn't require anything but free software that is probably already installed on your computer (bash and a terminal):



> #!/bin/bash
> declare -a name Rl S R
> n=0 s=0
> while read LINE; do
> n=$(( n + 1 ))
> name[$n]="$LINE"
> done
> while [ $s -lt ${#name[@]} ]; do # For each participant as a sender
> s=$(( s + 1 )) x=0 n=0 Rl=( )
> while [ $x -lt ${#name[@]} ]; do
> x=$(( x + 1 ))
> [ $x -ne $s ] || continue
> [ "${S[$x]}" ] && continue # Recipient already has sender
> n=$(( n + 1 ))
> Rl[$n]=$x
> done
> if [ ${#Rl[@]} -gt 0 ]; then
> R[$s]=${Rl[$((((RANDOM<<15)|RANDOM)%${#Rl[@]}+1))]}
> else # Randomization left sender sending to self; swap senders
> R[$s]=${R[1]} R[1]=$s
> fi
> S[${R[$s]}]=$s
> done
> s=0
> while [ $s -lt ${#name[@]} ]; do
> s=$(( s + 1 ))
> echo "${name[$s]} -> ${name[${R[$s]}]}"
> done


Solution in search of a problem? Meh. How many times have any of you bought or made a woodworking tool without knowing exactly what you were going to use it on/for? I would be willing to wager that at least one person in this room has bought a tool that they did not *yet* have a use for. That's what this is … making/acquiring tools.

Computer stuff, math, woodworking, it's all the same. Acquire a toolbox and fill it. When you encounter problems, you'll go through your toolbox and see if you have what you need to solve it.

Should I want to start a swap with 1,000 participants or more, at least I can pull this out of my hat, put the participant names into a file, and simply send the file to the program to get a list of who-sends-to-whom without having to think about it much further (and also without having to wait for eternity or try to install Excel on my computer after first acquiring it somehow).


----------



## DevinT

> Has anyone else come to the realization that Devin is way too smart for this group?
> 
> - doubleG469


I can go back to hiding my gifts. Been doing it my whole life. However, when I feel comfortable around a group of people, I tend to become more relaxed and let my guard down (and this invariably leads to the occasional brain-dump).


----------



## JohnMcClure

Don't hide, Devin. An I appreciate the value of a scalable solution. I'm a big fan of this, as an estimate of whether your investment in scalability is worthwhile given the expected number of times you'll encounter this problem in the future. And this chart seems like something that would appeal to you as well:










To credit the source its an old XKCD


----------



## DevinT

I will hit you with another vantage point, and that is multi-disciplinary correlative learning. In Malcolm Gladwell's book "Outliers" it was discussed (briefly) on the topic of the "10,000 hour rule" how two persons can extract different amounts of experience and knowledge from a single hour of performing the same task.

If you envision the task at-hand as always being related to the goal-afoot, then you have not extracted the full value from the experience, is my take-away. It took me less than 1-hour to write that code. However, I have to ask myself, "how exactly is it that I can write something like that in under an hour?" I look back to all the code that was similar to it that I wrote before it which prepared me for the task at-hand.

In under an hour I had 3 working versions and was able to compare their speed and select the fastest one. Anyone else without the prior experience I have in computer programming would probably have one solution after a week, or never.

Why did I write it? Because I wanted to see if it was possible and I had a load of experience to tell me that it wasn't going to take long to find out whether I could or not.

I think woodworking is the same in a lot of ways. If you've not done something before, it takes a while. If, while you are doing something, you can extract all the knowledge from the experience by thinking about other ways you might utilize a technique, then you are in a better place to do something faster than having to start it cold.


----------



## Lazyman

> Has anyone else come to the realization that Devin is way too smart for this group?
> 
> - doubleG469


Could just be that some are just way too dumb.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm not dumb Nathan. I've just been "hiding my gifts."


----------



## GrantA

After replacing a power supply I've got the big laser running in the shop! My grandpa just turned 86 and was recently diagnosed with mid-stage dementia, he is now more fidgety than usual so I'm going to see how he likes this - it's a 3d puzzle of an f18 hornet. Lowes had zero sheets of Mdf, I wanted 1/4" or thinner but I got this 0.080 acrylic instead. So far so good!


----------



## DevinT

Also, there is a formula that I use for determining whether something is worth working on, that is more philosophical and psychological than most will be willing to venture-to. Perhaps let me share some secrets to success.

If you want to be successful (wealth, money, power), it means building trust with those that can offer the things you want (be it money, power, wealth, or whatever you seek). Trust can be defined in two ways (with the second formula being far more important, as I will discuss):

1. Trust = Time + Consistency

2. Trust = Heroism x Difficulty

If I show up to work every day at the same time, I build trust. However, that's not the only way to build trust and in-fact I can build a trust that is more powerful than that built by the first formula.

Time can be substituted for heroism in the formula for trust. If we are both hang-gliding together and we come close but you pull away saving our lives in the process, I have trust and may invite you to come hang-gliding again.

The difficulty exhibited in the heroism acts as a straight multiplier in the second formula. If the thing I pulled-off in the final-hour of the final-day is inhumanly difficult, I only had to do that once to build an enormous amount of trust.

In my career, I am the person you call when you have no options left. When everybody else has failed you, I am your warrior, fighting next to you or in-front-of you, laying waste to whatever challenge you thought you had. At the banks they used to call me "the plasma torch." They had teams of people dedicated to taking mundane tasks off my plate so they could literally sit me down and let me focus on whatever wall they needed me to blast through. Once I made initial passage through the wall, the team behind me would then shift focus to taking that off my plate so I could be pointed at the next impenetrable task.

And the trust followed. And that trust over-powered relationships built upon the first formula for trust (time + consistency).

In fact, I once didn't show up to work for 3 years and still collected a paycheck every pay period. When your heroism is strong, and the things you take down are seen as impossible to solve by others, you don't need to be consistent, and you don't need time. You can build all-encompassing trust in a matter of days, hours, or even seconds.

The XKCD chart is a direct affront to the more powerful formula for trust, but I'm fine with that. The fewer people that know about my formula the better. I'm fine with everybody thinking they have to leave the hard problems alone because they are not worth solving. That leaves more meat for me to come by and scavenge. All that trust just gone to waste until I come along and pick it up and devour it.

And people love surrounding themselves with those that see no boundaries when it comes to solving hard tasks. I can walk into any of my previous employers and have a job practically in any state in the US and a few foreign territories; and I could probably name my price too.


----------



## GrantA

Haha yeah I'm going to start saying that too- hiding my gifts

Now Devin, none of us here especially myself have ever acquired a tool we didn't have an immediate need for. Sheesh


----------



## DevinT

Grant! Lovely! I can't wait to see it assembled.

Could you do a C-17 Globemaster III, I wonder? My Mom helped build that plane, and I saw its first flight when MacDonnell Douglas of Long Beach had a family day. There's a photo of me sitting in a Harrier jet and holding an M-16 with grenade launcher at the ripe-old age of 6 (iirc).


----------



## DavePolaschek

I think I live pretty well without a shell, Devin. Just woke up from my after-lunch siesta to discover y'all have been chatty again today. When the install bombed out halfway through, bricking my PineBook Pro, I set it aside and figured I'd get back to it when I needed it. That's been about fifteen months, I think. I turned it on the other day to make sure the battery still held power, though.

My career was being The Pro from Dover too. But I spent an awful lot of it deleting code while waiting for some congressman's son to develop a heart condition. Trimmed over a million lines of code from the app I worked on in a little over a decade. Other people added three copies of node.js during that time, so (long story short) I retired.

Grant and Kenny, some of us prefer that you "hide your gifts." ;-)


----------



## DevinT

/me shudders @ node.js

Yeah, I left a job over node.js once too. Those yout's!

For those unfamiliar:


----------



## Lazyman

As a retired I/T guy, I always appreciate an efficient or elegant solution but I had a boss once who reminded me that when someone asks for a pink Cadillac but all they need is transportation, a blue ford will do just fine.

In this case, the Lazyman approach is definitely going to involve a spreadsheet, even with a few thousand entries. 

Create list of names (the hard part)
Copy and paste the list to another column
Select the 2nd list, right click and select "Randomize". 
A simple formula will compare sender and recipient and mark them true if they are the same.
A countif formula at the top will count collisions. You can either fix them manually or just re-randomize until a zero collision count is reached.

It takes just 2 lines of code:


=if(A2=B2,true) -copied to each row to flag rows where a collision occurs
=COUNTIF (C2:C1001,true) -to count the collisions.

I normally don't display my gifts either. I prefer that they continue to think I am a dark wizard.


----------



## DevinT

I never have to worry about collisions in my approach because I rebuild a new list of potential recipients for each sender where said list excludes:

1. the sender themselves
2. everybody that has already been chosen to receive from someone

Therefore the random choice from the list is guaranteed to be someone that is capable of receiving.

I would have to imagine that there might be quite a few collisions to handle at the upper-end, which is what I was trying to avoid. Just feed it names and it generates a guaranteed conflict-free result.

This is similar to Dave's hat approach, detailed earlier.


----------



## Lazyman

If you think about it, the odds of a collision go down with a longer list. It took only 2 or 3 randomize attempts with either a list of 10 or 1000 to get a collision free set. The most collisions I saw with the 1000 entry list was 3 I think. Incidentally, the list of 10 was usually 1 to 3 collisions as well. I guess that explains why it usually only took 3 or fewer tries to get a clean list.

I am actually using Google Sheets because I have not yet added Excel to my new PC.


----------



## DevinT

That's a good point about the collision rate dropping with higher numbers of participants.


----------



## EarlS

I'm still waiting for the 1,000 participant swap. THEN I'll worry about how to handle it.


----------



## MikeB_UK

The collision percentage rate would drop, but wouldn't there be an equal chance of getting a collision per draw?

list of 1000, each name is 100 times less likely to draw their own name than in a list of 10.
But 100 times as many draws.

As easy to sort out manually no matter how large the list, but inelegant.

Randomise, sort and just use the sorted list would be simplest - like Nathan said, the hard bit is creating the list.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Earl, I too am a big propenent of the K.I.S.S. principle in process or design application.


----------



## jeffswildwood

I took computer class in college in the early 80's. It was actually history and usage of computers. One part was we had to do a program where,

employee one make $8.25 an hour
employee two makes $10.35 an hour
employee three makes $7.50 an hour.

A work week is 40 hours. Employee one worked 35 hours, employee two worked 40 hours and employee three worked 50 hours.

How much was each employee's pay check.

We were taken to the computer lab to do the program and an hour later, the teachers aid came by and asked if I was having problems. "Yes, how do I turn this on". He showed me. That was as far as I got. I solved it quickly by using my math skills, but that was not good enough. No score for me on project.

Many years later I made a program using microsoft works to automatically keep track of my hours, sick time, annual time and days off. I was proud and the envy of all the correctional officers I worked with that I gave a copy to. I imagine Devin and several others could have solved that pay problem in about 30 seconds.


----------



## jeffswildwood

It's OK to laugh at the above post, I'm one of those that had I not had two Sons, I couldn't have a computer or cell phone. "Mike, would you check this out for me, see what I messed up" ))


----------



## bigblockyeti

Jeff, I'm still working on figuring out how I can get away without a cell phone, everyone I care to talk to is close enough a CB should work. Those few that are farther away can get a post card every couple weeks. Those wages are funny, adjusted for inflation, they'd probably be a living wage now. I had a buddy that retired from Ford putting together $20K E(1,2,3)50 vans for $40/hr a while ago. Now I'm not too far away from the BMW plant that pays under $19/hr to put together $70K-$100K SUVs. I need a computer to explain to me how that's supposed to work.


----------



## GrantA

That's cool Devin! I think you're more qualified than me to draw it so if you want to send me a dxf file (or whatever you use) I'd be happy to burn it.
These pieces turned out pretty well, I can speed up the next run a bit (or reduce the power but who does that?) 
BUT
I won't be able to assemble one til the next run. Turns out I was indeed hiding my gifts and forgot to scale the file for this thinner material.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Hmm. While y'all were chatting, I finished the first glue-up on a birdhouse for the neighbor, and started carving a mouse to hang out with my birbs.

Grant, nice job! An occasional "mistake" like that, and people will have lower expectations for you.

Jeff, it takes all kinds, buddy. Glad you dropped by, though!


----------



## Keebler1

Not to derail the thread but as most are aware I want to start learning to use hss turning tools instead of just carbide. Have the grinder. Have to get the wolverine jig and vari grind. Looking for a decent set of tools tjat wont break the bank. Was thinking of this set. Any thoughts on this or another set or should I piece together one tool at a time? If piecing together a tool at a time what should be my first tool or two?


----------



## Lazyman

That's basically the set of tools I started with Keebs and I still use them. It is a good starter set but it depends a little on what you are looking for and what you already have. I don't use the scrapers that came with this set that often but the tools have good steel and are well made and even if you only use half of them, is still a good value. The skews are good, the bowl gouge is a little small but I use it for tight spaces and the continental style spindle gouge works well. The included spindle roughing gouge is still my main roughing tool. I keep saying I am going to get a bigger one, though I actually use my bowl gouge most of the time for roughing spindles. If bowls are going to be your thing, I recommend this set of Hurricane bowl gouges. I use these more than any other tools I have.


----------



## duckmilk

Huh?
Huh?
Huh?


> list of 1000, each name is 100 times less likely to draw their own name than in a list of 10.
> 
> - MikeB_UK


I would love to draw my own name in a swap. That would solve a lot of problems ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

Looks like we are down to 3 + Grant to ship.

I'm heading to Albuquerque tomorrow and then a VRBO rental on Friday in Alpine AZ. I'll wave north, Dave, as we pass by the Santa Fe turn off at Cline's Corners. We were going to head up to Flagstaff but we decided that instead we would take a longer trip to that area in the fall when it cools back down so we will probably just wander back through NM on the way back home. We haven't decided yet whether to detour north to Santa Fe or head south through Ruidoso. Either way, I will be refreshing my stash of NM beers on the way home.


----------



## Keebler1

Thanks Nathan. I plan om doing a mix of stuff not just bowls so I will probably order the psi set unless something else is brought to my attentionr


----------



## duckmilk

> I m heading to Albuquerque tomorrow and then a VRBO rental on Friday in Alpine AZ. I ll wave north, Dave, as we pass by the Santa Fe turn off at Cline s Corners. We were going to head up to Flagstaff but we decided that instead we would take a longer trip to that area in the fall when it cools back down so we will probably just wander back through NM on the way back home. We haven t decided yet whether to detour north to Santa Fe or head south through Ruidoso. Either way, I will be refreshing my stash of NM beers on the way home.
> 
> - Lazyman


Ruidoso was only about 45 miles from our ranch. Used to be a sleepy little town back then. I was born in Roswell, used to have an alien ID 
Don't start any fires in the SW Nathan, it's dry, dry there.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Dave P, I'll take an R please and thank you. 
I expect to earn an S tomorrow, for better or worse.


----------



## drsurfrat

> Was thinking of this set. Any thoughts on this or another set or should I piece together one tool at a time? If piecing together a tool at a time what should be my first tool or two?
> - Keebler1


Keebs, If you have nothing, that is a good start. They probably won't be the highest quality, but that doesn't matter to the wood, just to how frequently you need to sharpen. Then get better quality singles when you find you have to sharpen a certain type every couple minutes.

I do both spindle and bowl turning. In order, I use 

Sorby 3/8" bowl gouge, fingernail grind (like Nathan, also as a rougher)
Sorby 1+1/4" skew chisel, oval profile (to me, a skew chisel is the best investment I could make. Sorby isn't the very best, but good, I sharpen frequently)
no name roughing gouge (1+1/2" dia)
no name diamond profile parting tool
homemade carbide triangle tip scraper (bit is from McMaster Carr )
homemade deep vessel hooked scraper


----------



## Woodmaster1

All this talk about math. When I went to Ball State University in the early 70's they required so many hours in math and science so I avoided math and took science classes. I meant my goal of graduating with the exact number of hours required by never going to guidance for help. I had plenty of friends that had to go an extra semester or two because they went to guidance for help.


----------



## Lazyman

Fires are actually part of the reason we aren't going further in to AZ. It actually looks better today than it did a week ago but we figure that (hopefully) will be even less of an issue this fall.


----------



## DavePolaschek

John, you've got your *R*.

Nathan, if you get to Santa Fe, we could get together for a beer or something. We're just off 285 and 25. Can walk to the Eldorado tap room of Santa Fe Brewing from here.

Keebs, that set doesn't look horrible.

Nathan, if you have spare scrapers, I'm finding I like using scrapers for bowl stuff. I've been experimenting with different grinds to get different shapes…


----------



## doubleG469

> Has anyone else come to the realization that Devin is way too smart for this group?
> 
> - doubleG469
> 
> I can go back to hiding my gifts. Been doing it my whole life. However, when I feel comfortable around a group of people, I tend to become more relaxed and let my guard down (and this invariably leads to the occasional brain-dump).
> 
> - DevinT


It was meant as a compliment.


----------



## MikeB_UK

First coat of DO on, no clue why I'm trying to meet the deadline, not like it's going to be posted.


----------



## EarlS

> First coat of DO on, no clue why I m trying to meet the deadline, not like it s going to be posted.
> 
> - MikeB_UK


Dave told me he gave you my name for the swap, or maybe he said he gave it to Kenny?? I forget ;+)


----------



## HokieKen

Yes Earl, I got your name this time. And what you receive will probably be exactly what you're expecting.


----------



## DevinT

I just finished crafting my message to the recipient.

1354 words

Covering:

+ Intro
+ About your new plane
+ BONUS
+ Special features
+ Dimensions and weights
+ Wood materials list
+ Metal materials list
+ Other materials list
+ Finish
+ Care and cleaning
+ Using your new hand plane
+ Sharpening
+ Bonus accessory details
+ Additional accessory details
+ About the construction
+ Contact info
+ Thanks


----------



## DevinT

Now I have to print it out and then retype it using the 40 year old typewriter before I sign it and include it in the box (which is comically large; I would love to see the recipients face when they see this thing).

Why? BECAUSE I CAN!


----------



## DavePolaschek

Got another *S* this afternoon. We're getting perilously close to time for Grant to ship. ;-)

Nice work, Devin. At least the instructions don't need a separate box.

Mike, I thought you, Kenny and Mos were doing your own mini-swap after they dropped out.

My sweetie has pointed out that this is not a bookcase. Guess I can't sneak anything past her. :-/


----------



## Keebler1

Tell her youre still trying to get rid of the varmints that are digging holes outside see if she buys it


----------



## EricFai

Dave, yes it's hard to stuff by them. I have a time when I try to surprise mine.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> My sweetie has pointed out that this is not a bookcase. Guess I can't sneak anything past her. :-/
> - Dave Polaschek


Tell her it's a table top lectern, but you may have mis-read the dimensions.
Book goes on the back and rests on the, err, ears.

Not sure I rate your chances now I think about it


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Dave told me he gave you my name for the swap, or maybe he said he gave it to Kenny?? I forget ;+)
> 
> - EarlS


I think I needed to ship it about 2 months ago to get it there on time for the reveal, so I think I sent you the same thing Kenny sent, how embarassing.

Dave may have a mouse he needs to offload if it helps?


----------



## GrantA

Patience pays dividends in this game
;-p

DAHMIT JOHN what are you doing shipping so early man?

It's amazing what a fresh bandsaw blade in the appropriate tooth count does to a chunk of tool steel. So satisfying. I kinda sorta crashed the metal lathe again today. Always something. Gonna let the mill eat some tonight. Maybe I'll post a teaser later. Or maybe I'll use the laser to cut some trucker mudflap girls as plane decorations…


----------



## EricFai

Thought the phrase was

"Hold My Beer, and Watch This"


----------



## GrantA

I didn't make the meme I just stole it


----------



## Keebler1

Yes Grant your plane needs the mudflap girls


----------



## EricFai

I hear ya, I like the watch this better.

Us guys manage to do some wild stuff at times.


----------



## DevinT

Got everything typed on on the typewriter. Of course, the dang font ball I chose (Letter Gothic) uses "]" in the place of "1" so everywhere there is a 1, it is instead "]"

My letter looks like some serial murderer ransom letter typed 60 years ago, complete with mistakes and corrections.


----------



## DevinT

Threw in the schematics. Plane is coming with 23 pages of documentation.


----------



## GR8HUNTER

nice avatar Keebs :<)))))


----------



## DavePolaschek

23 pages. Damn near does need its own box.

I also had a mole removed today, so maybe I can tell her it's not a mouse, it's a mole.

Yeah, that'll work!

Grant, I think coming from you, shiny mudflap girls are a must. For, erm, extra grip.


----------



## Lazyman

Just tell her the doctor said no bookcases for at least a week after surgery.


----------



## Keebler1

Thanks Tony


----------



## doubleG469

Well after long conversation with Dave, I am officially throwing in the towel on this thing.

It's an utter failure and I don't see a work around in time to get it out the door. So after discussing I am going to forward the swap items I had received so that the circle is not broken.

Let's see if I can find a sad meme to truly convey my feelings here. LOL


----------



## Keebler1

That sucks Gary. Hopefully the next plane you make will turn out


----------



## EarlS

> Well after long conversation with Dave, I am officially throwing in the towel on this thing.
> 
> It s an utter failure and I don t see a work around in time to get it out the door. So after discussing I am going to forward the swap items I had received so that the circle is not broken.
> 
> Let s see if I can find a sad meme to truly convey my feelings here. LOL
> 
> - doubleG469


Did you check Craigslist to see if there are any old planes for sale that you could refurbish?


----------



## GR8HUNTER

with all these pros dropping out im so glad i sat this one out :<)))))))))


----------



## DavePolaschek

Sorry that's the way it worked out, Gary. I always figure that learning from my mistakes means that even the failures are good (if painful) learning experiences.

But yeah, with the ship deadline next Monday, it'd be tough to even get an old plane and clean it up and ready to ship in time. Unless you try to race Grant for last shipped.

I'm glad I made the back end a week longer than normal on this one. Seems like plenty of people needed time.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Gary, that's a solid way to handle it, forwarding the items you got. You could do worse.
I get it - if my method had failed, I wouldn't have had time to try another backup plan. I'd already made 2 prototypes and my calendar is FULL these days.


----------



## DevinT

I had planned to make a prototype and then the swap plane. Turned out to be a bit more challenging than anticipated and am having to send the (fully functional) prototype.


----------



## GrantA

Gary if you want to get something together over the next week I'll fix you up with an overnight fedex label to make reveal day!


----------



## doubleG469

> That sucks Gary. Hopefully the next plane you make will turn out
> 
> - Keebler1


BAHAHAHAHAHA there will be no "next", I will buy all my planes from now on. LOL


----------



## Keebler1

Gary what sharpening setup do you use for your lathe tools?


----------



## doubleG469

thanks everyone, this was just not my thing. I had a good plan going in but with even the best of plans sometimes it's better to just stop and reflect on what didn't work and what did.

I sent the failed piece along with the items I received, they will have ample time to try and tweek it into something that works.

Ultimately what I think capped it off was the bed angle, the iron I think is laying too low. Without cutting it all apart and trying to find new wood to fill - there just isn't enough time.

Live and Learn.


----------



## doubleG469

> Gary what sharpening setup do you use for your lathe tools?
> 
> - Keebler1


I have the vari-grind with Rikon slow speed grinder and cbn wheels. I also use the Raptor angle tools to help keep consistent in my grinds. 35 - 60 degree, very useful.


----------



## Keebler1

Ok wanna come over when my wolverine and turning tools come in and help me set it up and learn to use it and turn with hss?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Got another *S* which means everyone but Grant has now shipped. Good work, folks! And now it's time for Grant to start his build. ;-)


----------



## Keebler1

Hes gonna wait till sunday to start his build


----------



## DevinT

I don't know how I feel about that. Kind of feels like childish antics.


----------



## doubleG469

> Ok wanna come over when my wolverine and turning tools come in and help me set it up and learn to use it and turn with hss?
> 
> - Keebler1


You should swing by and take a look at my set up, I can put a big chunk on the lathe and let you go at it with hss tools and talk about the different grinds. But sure thing would be happy to.


----------



## Keebler1

I can swing by sometime in a few weeks will shoot you a message


----------



## MikeB_UK

Tough one Gary, sorry mate.

If the first plan doesn't work right - or, worse, sort of works and you think you can get it to work - you can waste so much time trying to tweak it that there is no time left for a plan B.

If the iron is too low, flip it around, how do you think bevel up planes got invented


----------



## doubleG469

> I can swing by sometime in a few weeks will shoot you a message
> 
> - Keebler1


Sounds good.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> I don t know how I feel about that. Kind of feels like childish antics.
> 
> - DevinT


"Childish Antics" - did you not read previous swap threads before joining?


----------



## HokieKen

I refuse to participate in childish antics. My antics are always at least adolescent.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I think this swap has gone pretty well, but we've been a little low on childish antics. The thread might break 2000 posts after reveals, but there have been a few days with no nonsense at all. It's been a little weird at times.

That said, I'm still looking forward to the reveals. Progress pictures were a nice mix, and I hope to be happily surprised by some of the results.


----------



## EricFai

Sorry to hear about the issues you came up with Gary. You mentioned skipping the next one, don't do that. Continue working one the one you have to see what works and build it for yourself. Then you can tackle the next one down the road.

This was a first for me, I had some struggles, let it sit a bit and ponder what to do. The real test for me will be what the receiver thinks of it, and how it works for them.


----------



## EricFai

Dave,

I will give you a big Thank You, for your part of running this swap. And I am sure there are others that will say the same.

I was a rookie with a plane build you talked me into signing up, stating have a few plans in the event the first fails. We are all here to hopefully learn from each other and to encourage each other.

Thanks again


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thanks, Eric. And you're welcome.

I wasn't joking when I said I had a Plan E in case A-D went sideways. I'm glad A worked out (at least I think it did), but there were some days when I wasn't so sure I was going to figure it out.

My take on the swaps is that we should all try to do something a little beyond our current skills when the swap starts, and I think there was a good amount of that. Sorry Gary's didn't work out, and Kenny and Mos ran out of time for a build, but a 25% attrition rate isn't the worst I've seen in a swap.


----------



## doubleG469

I heard there's going to be a wood turning one sometime in the future, now that's my bag and I will be in on that one.


----------



## duckmilk

> Ultimately what I think capped it off was the bed angle, the iron I think is laying too low. Without cutting it all apart and trying to find new wood to fill - there just isn t enough time.
> 
> - doubleG469


What bed angle did you end up with Gary?
Don't blame yourself, put the blame on me…and Nathan…mostly me because most of what I did was stand around and drink beer :O


----------



## Keebler1

Sounds like Gary is heading the swap after the beer swap


----------



## doubleG469

> Sounds like Gary is heading the swap after the beer swap
> 
> - Keebler1


Sure thing we are going to have a 250 minimum piece segmented wood bowl swap.

Who's all in?


----------



## EricFai

A turning swap, I'm in with you Gary.

Not sure what, but I'm sure I could come up with something round.


----------



## doubleG469

> Ultimately what I think capped it off was the bed angle, the iron I think is laying too low. Without cutting it all apart and trying to find new wood to fill - there just isn t enough time.
> 
> - doubleG469
> 
> What bed angle did you end up with Gary?
> Don t blame yourself, put the blame on me…and Nathan…mostly me because most of what I did was stand around and drink beer :O
> 
> - duckmilk


Duck obviously I should have had a few more beers maybe then it would've came out correct.


----------



## duckmilk

hey, I kept offering….


----------



## duckmilk

Dave, I think Gary deserves an S behind his name because he will have actually sent something(s) ;-)


----------



## MikeB_UK

And it's waxed up and done and I'm kind of glad I don't have to send it to anyone.

Now I just need to take some pics where the gaffer tape doesn't show before it falls apart


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Dave, I think Gary deserves an S behind his name because he will have actually sent something(s) ;-)


Duck, that's a fine idea, but I removed him because I didn't just want to take away his *R*.

Y'all let me know what you think. I'm fine with having a *PSR* after Gary up there.

Mike, if it falls apart, you're not using enough gaffer tape.


----------



## EricFai

Gary did hang in there. That should account for a little.


----------



## HokieKen

No! I say punish him for his failure! There are no participation trophies in LJ swaps. This ain't the DNC.

;-)


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Mike, if it falls apart, you're not using enough gaffer tape.
> - Dave Polaschek


It's an artform, enough tape to hold it together without the tape showing.
You can't just wrap it like a mummy


----------



## DevinT

Just use invisible gaffers tape


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Just use invisible gaffers tape
> 
> - DevinT


Well, dammit, if I knew that was a thing i'd have been finished in time to ship to Earl.


----------



## duckmilk

> No! I say punish him for his failure! There are no participation trophies in LJ swaps. This ain't the DNC.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


You're just sorry you didn't think about it first. Send a non-functional item and still get a PSR, LOL. Hey, gives me an idea for the beer swap ;-P


----------



## duckmilk

Ooohhh, maybe Grant's getting the non-functional plane!!


----------



## GrantA

I'll display it proudly! I have plenty of non-functional tools ;-p
Based on what I read though I have a feeling it was intended to be bevel down and simply making it bevel up will solve the problem.
I'm no tool maker though just a hack with a bunch of machines who has a lucky day once in a while


----------



## Keebler1

Its alive. Also to get yall prepped for the beer swap.


----------



## duckmilk

Hey Keebs, just watched this pen making vid and thought you would enjoy it.


----------



## EarlS

> Just use invisible gaffers tape
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> Well, dammit, if I knew that was a thing i d have been finished in time to ship to Earl.
> 
> - MikeB_UK


I have loads of invisible gaffers tape that I use on all my projects. I could send you some if I could just find it….


----------



## DevinT

The Emperor's New Gaffer's Tape, coming to an invisible book store near you


----------



## duckmilk

> Dave, I think Gary deserves an S behind his name because he will have actually sent something(s) ;-)
> 
> Duck, that s a fine idea, but I removed him because I didn't just want to take away his *R*.
> 
> Y'all let me know what you think. I'm fine with having a *PSR* after Gary up there.
> 
> Mike, if it falls apart, you're not using enough gaffer tape.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Hey, he gave it his best till the end.


----------



## duckmilk

> The Emperor's New Gaffer's Tape, coming to an invisible book store near you
> 
> - DevinT


Maybe that is why I've never seen some.


----------



## DevinT

Plane swap every year at the same time?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Beer swap happens next because mid-summer is a good time for beer. This one was a plane swap because I offered to run it if it was a plane swap, and nobody had a better idea.

We generally take a month or two off before Christmas so folks can spend their shop time on presents. I think that's about the extent of the schedule.

Gary, you want your name up there or not? I'm good either way, but I think it's your call.


----------



## Lazyman

I can always give Gary one of my failures to go with his R. ;-) I The live oak and ipe of plan C actually looks pretty nice so would look just fine sitting on a shelf. It even sort of works under ideal conditions but makes a mess of it when it doesn't.


----------



## Lazyman

Weather is here. Wish you were beautiful.

Alpine, AZ. It's a dry cool.










Man, morning comes early when you don't spring forward. Dang birds started chirping at 4:30 this morning.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Great picture Nathan. Looks peaceful.


----------



## HokieKen

> …Wish you were beautiful.
> 
> - Lazyman


Wish granted buddy.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

We never change clocks Nathan, you get used to the daylight. Also, tomorrow is the summer solstice so these are long days right now.

Welcome to AZ man!


----------



## drsurfrat

Long ago I dug up some of the original (as far as I could find) papers making arguments for 'daylight saving'. Both were coincidentally dated 1907, one from Britain, one from America. I wish I had kept the info. The Brit wanted more time for golf, and the American wanted more time for collecting butterflies - really (may have been editorial). One of them also proposed a scheme to shift clocks by 20 minutes every two weeks, 3 times. Again, really. These were journal articles, not someone else's comments. I'm gonna have to dig again.

PS found one, William Willet, 1907, proposed 20 min shifts. No mention of golf  Calculations on saving money in "artificial" light.


----------



## HokieKen

It's Saturday and the wife took the grandkids out of town for the day. You know what that means:









Lunch beer! This is a new one from a local brewery. It's excellent and has earned a firm spot in this year's Beer Swap . Whether my recipient likes darks or lights or somewhere between, they get one of those and one of these:









One for excellent taste and one for good taste and excellent bottle art ;-)


----------



## bndawgs

Three notches is Charlottesville? I've had their other ipa and it was good


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah their main brewery is in Charlottesville but they opened a location here in Roanoke too so we have good distribution of all their beers as well as a pourhouse. They have several IPAs but their King of Clouds Imperial IPA is my favorite. Minute Man NE IPA is really good too.


----------



## HokieKen

Well, on the weekend before ship date, I finally finished machining the blades I agreed to make for Mos' swap plane. Guess it's a good thing we both jumped ship!


----------



## DavePolaschek

Nice Kenny! Now when he sends you the plane, you can compliment him on the quality of the blades!


----------



## EarlS

Majestic Mullet was one of the swap beers I received. Very tasty. I've been doing some testing, though the other side of the beer swap isn't going too well (figuring out what to make).

In that same tone, today I managed to drill the 3/8 hole for the leg vise scissors on the bottom of the leg, instead of the top like the directions stated. Looks like I will be making some 3/8 dowels and plugging the holes. Guess I need to measure twice, read the plans, and look at the drawings twice, then repeat.

I'm also going to take a page or two out of Devin's book, literally, and start a to do list for the bench project so I don't mess something else up or miss something important.


----------



## Woodmaster1

> Sounds like Gary is heading the swap after the beer swap
> 
> - Keebler1
> 
> Sure thing we are going to have a 250 minimum piece segmented wood bowl swap.
> 
> Who s all in?
> 
> - doubleG469


 I am in. I love turning segmented bowls.


----------



## Mosquito

> Nice Kenny! Now when he sends you the plane, you can compliment him on the quality of the blades!
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Haha perfect! Maybe I'll just send a block of wood and have him keep a set lol


----------



## DevinT

I've been feeling kind of lost these past couple days. Yeah, I got the nursery walls and ceiling washed with TSP and the first pass of primer rolled onto the ceiling, and I pulled out the Air Conditioner parts to start that project back up, but it just all feels like the doldrums.

Come on *R*'s!

Also, I can't wait to acquire more wood to build the same plane I just made for the swap.

Oh, and in other news, Lee Valley pushed back the plane kits to July 30 now. Rats!


----------



## DavePolaschek

That's works for me, Mos. ;-)

Sorry, Devin. Things have been dragging around here due to the heat. It's not the daytime temps that are the problem, but the fact that it hasn't gotten much below 70 at night for over a week. We had an HVAC guy out to give us an estimate on a mini-split system, but it'll be mid-July by the time he can get it installed. Hopefully we'll be in the monsoon by then, but right now we're just dragging.

Oh well. We should see all the *R*s soon. I think based on the tracking numbers I've been watching, Tuesday and Wednesday we're going to see most of them. Take note, Grant!


----------



## DevinT

Dave, get yourself a Mr. Cool mini-split which comes with a pre-charged line and you can install it yourself.

Here's an instructional video showing the installation. So easy, a girl can do it!


----------



## Keebler1

Just got my 3d printer working friday. It hasnt stopped printing since then.


----------



## Woodmaster1

> Just got my 3d printer working friday. It hasnt stopped printing since then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Keebler1


3D printers are an awesome thing to use. I love the one I used teaching. I had the students design and make some things at least once a month. The best thing was I had the superintendent's son and talk him into a $32,000 dollar printer. Even being retired I can still send the new teacher files and he will print things for me.


----------



## EricFai

Devin, was that 2022 for Lee Valley? 
It does sound like your making progress on the nursery though, at the same time missing the shop projects.

I am still deciding on the next project, I have a few around the house. Just need to get off my butt and get busy. This weekend was yard work though.


----------



## DavePolaschek

No thanks. Me and plumbing is not a good mix. I'd sooner play with live 220V circuits, because electricity doesn't leak.

Plus, my sweetie found a photo she wants framed, so I profiled a chunk of poplar for the frame this afternoon. Also had to sharpen two of my moulding planes, which meant finding my slip stones. Let's see, the larger radius is a 10/16, and the smaller is a 6/16.










It'll get a couple-three coats of iron black milk paint, and then a couple coats of shellac once it's together, but that's tomorrow after I call the HVAC guy to get the estimate.


----------



## HokieKen

I knocked out a big bunch of yardwork and some machining jobs for other folks this weekend. Feeling like I can breathe a little bit now. I might finish up the plane I started for this swap for my next project


----------



## Keebler1

With everyone getting shop stuff done anyone want to come over and build my next workbench or cabinet for my new lathe


----------



## EarlS

> Just got my 3d printer working friday. It hasnt stopped printing since then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Keebler1


We are Groot!!!

Maybe he can help you Keebler.


----------



## doubleG469

> No! I say punish him for his failure! There are no participation trophies in LJ swaps. This ain't the DNC.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


I agree 100%


----------



## DevinT

The first tiny little signs of hope that Lee Valley is recovering from the Pandemic …

A. If you ordered a plane kit in April, it is expected to arrive July 2nd
B. versus if you order one now, it is expected to arrive July 30th

This is the first time in ~2 months that the two time estimates have differed. Usually when they push back the arrival of the new purchases, they also push back the arrival of pre-purchased goods to the same date. However, this time they only pushed-out new purchases.


----------



## DevinT

Let's talk blade thicknesses for a moment.

Stanley type 11: 1/16" thick
Veritas: 1/8" thick (50% thicker than above)
Clifton: 5/32" thick (25% thicker than above)
Ron Hock: 3/16" thick (20% thicker than above)

And ahead of the pack:

HNT Gordon: 1/4" thick (33% thicker than a Ron Hock)

I am smitten. I think I've got to contact Bob and get one of his blades to try out in a build. I am so impressed with Ron Hock blades, I can't wait to try an HNT Gordon blade. So stout, you don't even need a chip-breaker/cap-iron. Rightfully so.

Anyone ever used an HNT Gordon hand plane or driven one his blades?

Oh, and would you go O1 or HSS?

*EDIT*: This video explains you want the HSS for harder woods. Interesting that they mention that you can reverse the blade to use it as a scraper. Note, I'm mostly just interested in their blades for making my own planes.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Got it Gary. You join Mos and Kenny in the ranks of "it never happened."

Devin, glad they're finally getting things sorted.

Thick blades rock. Until it comes time to sharpen.

I've been pondering an HNT Gordon spokeshave for quite a while. They make pretty stuff, and if I spent more time working hickory or the red eucalyptus that AZWoody sells, I'd have a Gordon plane.

I would stick with O1 for a plane blade, but I don't work nasty Aussie woods that they want HSS for. And I've seen the thing about turning a plane blade around to use it as a scraper before, but for me, I would just put a funny grind on my last Stanley Global #3 (I'm pondering buying another batch of five because I keep finding uses for them) and use that as a scraper.


----------



## DevinT

Good points on the thickness and sharpening. I wonder if the Aussie woods they are taking be are harder than our exotics like Cocobolo, Purple Heart, etc.


----------



## HokieKen

I wouldn't want a HSS plane blade. HSS' advantages lie in its ability to hold an edge and withstand heat and abrasiveness. The trade off is that it just doesn't take as fine an edge as high carbon tool steels. I don't know that I've ever even seen a HSS plane iron but wouldn't be tempted if I did I don't think. Not to mention it can be a real bear to sharpen.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I think if you were going to use it as a scraper the HSS might make sense, as that's going to be a more abrasive use.

Got the poplar that I profiled yesterday cut into four pieces, and they're all within 1/32 of the right length.










Tomorrow I do the last little bit of fine-tuning, glue them together, and cut a piece of glass to fit (should be 9×9 inches). Oh, and cut the mat board for the photo. Wednesday I start painting the frame.

Grant's got about 9 hours to ship if he wants to be on time. Reveals approach!


----------



## GrantA

Part for the course there's always something… No worries though I'll slap it on the tail tomorrow and it'll be flying first class to- nah I better not give away any clues Devin is having too much fun with her code writing









As fer blade thickness, keep in mind the thicker the blade the more heft and I feel like better results. But a 1/2" thick blade would make you invent a new language when it came time to sharpen. I think 1/8 is just fine, 1/4 looks cool. 3/16 would be a great middle ground


----------



## GrantA

Dave on another note I know you shoot 45s, I seem to recall 1911s? I pulled the trigger (ha!) on a couple frame/slide kits for 3" 1911s and I'm pumped to get my paws on em


----------



## drsurfrat

That is the gun I learned to shoot on when I was 5 years old. Has to put it ib the bench to hold it up.


----------



## DevinT

But if you leave the primary bevel alone and hone at 1-2 degrees above it, then wouldn't you really only be honing a small amount of blade and therefore only slightly worse than sharpening a thinner blade? Also, we're talking about using diamond to hone most of the way and ceramic to finish.

So, I'm only loosely basing this off of experience. I've honed the 1/16" thick blade from the Stanley No 8 T11, the 1/8" thick blade from my Veritas, but have not yet honed a Hock or anything thicker than 1/8" so far. Honing the 1/8" and 1/16" was pretty much the same deal. Since I'm leaving the primary bevel alone and just honing a micro bevel, wouldn't I only have to touch the grinding wheel once in a blue moon?


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Dave on another note I know you shoot 45s, I seem to recall 1911s? I pulled the trigger (ha!) on a couple frame/slide kits for 3" 1911s and I m pumped to get my paws on em


No 1911s around here, Grant. With my huge paws, a double-stack is more comfortable for me. Got a Glock 21 I'm fairly fond of, once a friend tuned up the trigger on it so it wasn't a complete crunchenticker.

Once in a blue moon depends on your usage, Devin. Or if you "discover" a nail with the plane blade or something. That's when I'm pretty sure I'd hate having a thick HSS blade. Well, no. That's when I'd head to the garage side of the shop and power up the grinder.


----------



## DevinT

That's essentially what I see Terry of HNT doing in this video (Sharpening plane blades)


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, if you're honing a micro-bevel, the blade thickness isn't a real issue. Personally, I don't do micro-bevels but I use my Worksharp to do my plane blades so I can do the full bevel in just a few seconds anyway. If I were freehand honing on stones and I had a 3/16" or thicker blade, I'd definitely be tempted to use a microbevel.


----------



## DevinT

Well, Terry from HNT is big on hollowing the blade so that when you set the (1/4" thick) blade down on its bevel, you're only ever making contact at the very edge of the bevel and the rear of the bevel. The hollow in the bevel never makes contact and therefore you don't have to sharpen all that steel. Without a hollow, you do Cosman's technique of raising the angle, but you don't have to do that if you have a hollow.


----------



## HokieKen

Very true Devin. A hollow grind does save you some metal removal. Of course, each time you sharpen, you have a little less hollow and a little more to grind though…


----------



## DevinT

And once you make it half way through the hollow, you have to regrind, though I suspect it would take years of constant use to reach that point. No?


----------



## DavePolaschek

I don't know about years. My smoother gets sharpened every half dozen bookcases or so, and it's only cutting pine. And it's PMV-11, but I don't do a micro bevel or hollow on it. As long as I don't have any dings in the blade, it goes pretty quick, but I've taken off an eighth or maybe 3/16 in the two and a quarter years since I built it.

Got another *R* up there. Received a type of plane I didn't previously have in the swap, so yay!


----------



## DevinT

I also got a plane that I didn't already have, that I am *very* happy about. I was inspecting it today. Took it apart, put it back together. Took less than 10 minutes to get it all set up. Quite beautiful craftsmanship. There will be photos and more details after reveal, of course.


----------



## EricFai

Looks like it's down to 3, whom will or has sent the swap project to me. Yep, I'm watching.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I think there are two packages supposed to be delivered tomorrow, according to the tracking numbers. Then again, that doesn't always mean much. The package I got today was supposed to be delivered tomorrow, but made it from ABQ to SAF before noon, when my mailman begins his route, so he delivered it around supper time.

So Grant, does that mean you've earned a capital *P*? I think it does.


----------



## DevinT

I have been seriously considering buying this and seeing what a 5/16" thick blade feels like (by making one out of that bar stock). I think it would be borderline hilarious, or as they might say in Space Balls: ludicrously thick! Which logically begs the question, if you have patience and a penchant for the absurd, could you make a 1" thick blade? 2" thick? Where does it become absolutely beyond stupid-thick?

ASIDE: I should have come with a warning. Such as "WARNING: Voids Warranties and pushes boundaries for fun."


----------



## HokieKen

I don't really think a blade can be "too thick" (within reason) if you discount sharpening considerations and the plane can accept it. With a bevel down plane, that means a really wide mouth and/or adjustable frog position. However, I do think there is a point where there is no advantage to a thicker blade. In reality, you want a blade that won't flex or vibrate. A thicker iron is one way to accomplish that and how thick it needs to be depends on the use. A smoother taking a .001" shaving doesn't need the stiffness that a scrub taking a 1/8" shaving does. But, having the extra thickness and stiffness isn't going to hinder the smoother either.

Personally, I like stiffness in my blades. The smoother I started making for this swap was going to have a 1/4" thick iron. And it still will if/when I ever get back around to finishing it up…


----------



## DevinT

Good points which dovetails into my other interest, alloys. Especially VG-10, and perhaps CPM and S30V, though VG-10 is on my radar. Love that stuff ever since I acquired a Tuffram Aluminum handled Spyderco Cricket from Fedco with VG-10 blade from Japan. It has over 7.5x the toughness of O1, according to some research.

ASIDE: Anyone remember Fedco stores?


----------



## HokieKen

The last two carry knives I bought are both CPM blades. A Benchcraft CPM-3V and Kershaw CPM-154. Both take a keen edge and hold it well. The downside is sharpening. It's not simple. Not only do the highly abrasive resistant steels thumb their noses at my oil stones but it's not as simple as sharpen to a wire edge and hone until the wire is gone. At least not for me. I can think I'm ready to roll only to find that I'm wrong. I have to dye the edge and keep a constant watch with magnification to see what's really going on with it. I got a new set of diamonds just for these knives for Father's Day though so we'll see if that simplifies things for me 

Anyhow, I say all that to say: While I do love for my knives to have a good sharp edge that also has great retention, I don't particularly enjoy the sharpening challenges that come with it. And my plane blades live a considerably harder life in terms of how much they cut even if they do only cut wood. If my plane irons were as hard to sharpen as my knives, I'd probably toss them aside in favor of a good O1 blade.

While tool makers are certainly coming around to experimenting with newer "super-steels" for blades, they are still, for the most part, rooted in O1 and A2 steels. So far Veritas seems to be the only one who has successfully evolved to the use of their PM-V11 in finding a steel that takes a keen edge and has superior retention while still being relatively easy to sharpen with traditional abrasives.

Basically, I guess I'm saying that I'm highly in favor of tool makers exploring new steels but I want different characteristics in my knife steels than I want in my tool steels.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I agree Kenny. No point in crazy steels for plane blades, those get sharpened far to often.

I do wish for a Benchcraft someday though.


----------



## DevinT

My Dad taught me how to sharpen and I can just run my finger across the blade perpendicular to the bevel and know how sharp it is in under 1s based on:

1. How much does it "grab" with light pressure when I drag my finger in direction A
2. and in direction B (both sides of the bevel should grab)

Then I use the tip of my finger nail running parallel to the bevel to check for any breaks in the edge that my finger nail might catch on.

When I feel a good grab from both sides, I already know it will cut paper and shave hairs.

Since all the knives I was taught to sharpen with were these tough alloys, I was conditioned into thinking that honing is a sacred process by which you devote your full attention and you use the best ceramics. Never felt like it took that long and was always worth it because those alloys held their edges for so long. I think we only sharpened our knives once every few years. Though, to be fair, we always had a good amount of EDC's to rotate through.

I'll pull out what I have in my purse right now and see what kinds of blade it has.


----------



## DevinT

What I'm carrying with me these days.


----------



## HokieKen

LOL @ the pink super bitch knife


----------



## HokieKen

My EDC gets used and abused I would say at least 10X a day. Two things it does regularly that are surprisingly hard on an edge is sharpening pencils and cutting cable ties. Stripping wires can be rough too. And I tend to pick one blade and stick with it until I find a good reason to switch. So I would guess that on average I sharpen every two months or so. I've had my Benchmade (oops, I saw Dave's comment and realized I confused my knife with workbench hardware in my earlier post…) since Christmas and have sharpened it three times so far. Though the first one was shortly after getting it, I was not pleased with the factory edge. Benchmade will sharpen it for free for life, I'd rather get the art down to a science and do it myself


----------



## MikeB_UK

> I have been seriously considering buying this and seeing what a 5/16" thick blade feels like (by making one out of that bar stock). I think it would be borderline hilarious, or as they might say in Space Balls: ludicrously thick! Which logically begs the question, if you have patience and a penchant for the absurd, could you make a 1" thick blade? 2" thick? Where does it become absolutely beyond stupid-thick?
> 
> ASIDE: I should have come with a warning. Such as "WARNING: Voids Warranties and pushes boundaries for fun."
> 
> - DevinT


Get an old number 8 (half inch wide) plough plane blade to have a play with.


----------



## DevinT

Mike, thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## DevinT

This video from Terry of HNT is really eye-opening when it comes to the effectiveness of blade angle and bevel-up vs bevel-down.


----------



## DavePolaschek

According to tracking, we have two more *R*s. If there's an *R* after your name and you didn't receive a plane, let me know.

We just got home from a trip to town. Seven different stops, including lunch, in 3.5 hours. One of them was even Homer Depot, which is always frustrating and slow, and we breezed through it in no time. Weird! It was like being in someplace that isn't Santa Fe.


----------



## DevinT

So, I was curious about the "cranky" and "cantankerous" woods of Australia that HNT Gordon planes specialize in taming. HNT bench planes are made out of an Australian wood named Gidgee. I looked up the Janka hardness for Gidgee and it's *4270*-now compare that with Cocobolo at 2960. That's incredible! That's 44.25% harder than Cocobolo, the hardest exotic wood I can buy locally.

OK, so now I have a better idea of what HNT is up against. If you want to plane Gidgee, I can see how a 1/4" thick HSS blade can come in handy. Otherwise you're probably going to have to resharpen your blade every 30 seconds, depending on how much you want to fight through a blade that is dulling with every stroke in something like Gidgee.

Want to know the scary part? That's not even the highest rated wood according to this page on Australian woods

There's Knob Thorn (Acacia nigrescens) at 4290 and Waddy (Acacia Peuce) at an astounding *4630*.

Imagine trying to plane something (like Waddy) that is 63.93% harder than Cocobolo. That's like:

Going from Paduak or Purple Heart to Cocobolo
Going from Beech, Canadian or White Ash, or White Oak to Bubinga, Tigerwood (Gonçalo Alves), or Santos Mahogany.
Going from Hickory to Bloodwood.
Going from Black Walnut to Wenge or Bamboo.
Going from Western Red Cedar to Yellow Poplar or Chestnut.

I am impressed. Now I want an Australian plane from HNT Gordon just because I know it would laugh at things like Purple Heart and Cocobolo.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

You can reach out to AZWoody and he'll ship you some of our local AZ woods Devin. We have many similar woods to those Ausies. Our Eucalyptus is identical to their Jarrah and we have plenty of acacia as well. I work 95%+ in local hard woods and can tell you anything the local store has is no problem in my book compared to what I usually work.

AZWoody is also Sonora Woodworks on all the social stuff. He runs a saw mill. Good people over there. Been friends with him several years now.


----------



## DevinT

My Dad visited some family out in AZ a few weeks ago. I wish I had known then, would have asked him to grab me some wood before he headed back. I'll definitely seek him out and take a look at what's out there.


----------



## drsurfrat

Mark me an "R" ! Beautifully finished, I had to grab it back from my wife 'cause she liked it too.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thanks, Mike! That leaves, as far as I can tell, one plane left to be shipped. Paging Grant to the white courtesy phone!


----------



## duckmilk

You might page him to the red emergency phone instead


----------



## DevinT

To the Bat Phone!

Next year Grant can probably send his plane on the Concorde to get it their faster. He can have the only plane in the swap that has reached speeds fast enough to break the sound barrier.


----------



## GrantA

I is here y'all, sorry for my chronic lateness but I won't let y'all down for a reveal day! Somebody will be getting a swell tubafour on Thursday

I really did plan to ship Monday, I have had some family stuff going on the past few weeks including my granny going into the hospital which tied up my mom who was supposed to be keeping the kids

And yeah I may have too much on my plate, but swaps are fun mmkay 

This one is kinda light on the shenanigans though… I think Devin has scared you guys


----------



## DevinT

Joke's on you, I put 3M dual-lock on the back of a blade and door stop and called it a day.


----------



## duckmilk

Sorry to hear about granny. How's she doing?


----------



## HokieKen

Steve.


----------



## DevinT

That makes me think about the beer swap. I just found out that I live down the street from this Brew-on-Prem business


----------



## Woodmaster1

That looks like a nightmare to box and ship for the beer swap.


----------



## HokieKen

Devin will figure it out ;-)


----------



## DevinT

My Dad did something like this when we were little. Grabbed the wife, sister, and myself and we drove to I believe was San Luis Obispo or nearby. We all helped him to label and bottle his brew and he mailed it off to folks. It was fun from what I can remember. It wasn't at this particular purveyor, but seems like a similar program. Enlist a bunch of friends and family to help you bottle and get it home. In fact, my Dad is coming up here in August, maybe I'll try to enlist him in doing a batch for old times sake. Would give me a way to entice him to come back, lol.


----------



## Lazyman

> I is here y all, sorry for my chronic lateness but I won t let y all down for a reveal day! Somebody will be getting a swell tubafour on Thursday
> 
> I really did plan to ship Monday, I have had some family stuff going on the past few weeks including my granny going into the hospital which tied up my mom who was supposed to be keeping the kids
> 
> And yeah I may have too much on my plate, but swaps are fun mmkay
> 
> This one is kinda light on the shenanigans though… I think Devin has scared you guys
> 
> - GrantA


Don't let them rush Grant. I'm sure the guy you are shipping to is willing to wait


----------



## DevinT

AAannnndd… closed in 2019 after 5 years of business


----------



## DavePolaschek

Hope Granny's ok, Grant.

I'll probably be sitting out the beer swap. Things are continuing busy around here, and I've been slacking on too many things that have deadlines.

Edit to add: just got notice from Cook Woods that I'm now gold tier in their frequent buyers club. Oh boy?


----------



## DevinT

> I is here y all, sorry for my chronic lateness but I won t let y all down for a reveal day! Somebody will be getting a swell tubafour on Thursday
> 
> I really did plan to ship Monday, I have had some family stuff going on the past few weeks including my granny going into the hospital which tied up my mom who was supposed to be keeping the kids
> 
> And yeah I may have too much on my plate, but swaps are fun mmkay
> 
> This one is kinda light on the shenanigans though… I think Devin has scared you guys
> 
> - GrantA
> 
> Don't let them rush Grant. I'm sure the guy you are shipping to is willing to wait
> 
> - Lazyman


I second that. I'm willing to wait until next week. Take your time. No rush.


----------



## EricFai

Dave, you can mark the "R" down for me, and a box of shavings. That made a good packing material.


----------



## HokieKen

Safety first when drinking!


----------



## DevinT

Looks like someone is hardening some steel.


----------



## DevinT

For my own education, what kinds of steels can you harden in that thing? What do you plan to quench with? When I get out of this condo and into a real house, I'm definitely going to be interested in that activity … unless … you tell me it can be done on a Sunday afternoon, in which case I'll call up my co-worker who lives in the hills and we can harden steels at his place on the weekends.


----------



## Lazyman

All I see is a beer getting warm.


----------



## RichT

> Safety first when drinking!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


I bet you can get that beer pretty cold during the cryo treatment.


----------



## EarlS

> Hope Granny's ok, Grant.
> 
> I'll probably be sitting out the beer swap. Things are continuing busy around here, and I've been slacking on too many things that have deadlines.
> 
> Edit to add: just got notice from Cook Woods that I'm now gold tier in their frequent buyers club. Oh boy?
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


I'm still on the fence for the beer swap. Beer isn't the problem, finding time and space in the shop is, along with an idea. I owe Dick a clock and haven't worked on it in over a month. I suppose I could use one of the 6 versions I'm making.

Finding work space with the massive bench parts taking up all available work surfaces is a challenge. I keep saying the legs are almost done then I remember more work that I need to do on them. I'm writing all of the stuff on a to do list (Thanks for the reminder Devin)

I keep looking at Cooks, but I never quite put in an order. Thought about getting something from them for the chop and dead man for the bench but decided that 3 different woods (walnut, cherry, white oak) is busy enough. 
One of these days I will find the right project and the right wood to order from them.

Grant - hope Grandma is doing OK!!!!

Kenny - are you heating stir sticks for your beer or toasting marshmallows?

Wife is on the left coast for a week so I'm not sure if that gives me more time or less to work in the shop. She left me a list of chores.


----------



## GrantA

thanks everyone, granny is ok, one day at a time, they basically reinforced her whole femur with a piece of round bar after a bad break. they think it was a hairline fracture that just finally snapped. She had been having leg pain but nothing showed on x-rays.
She's in rehab/PT now in the hospital, discharge date of 7/1 so fingers crossed!
If we could just find one of the high school kids wanting to make some cash hanging with my kids…

Devin, you have confessed your love of supersteels, don't get your hopes up about heat treat in a coffee can forge. or any forge. They need precise temps and soak times with controlled quenching. Send em off to trugrit or Peters. I think trugrit is near you. Or invest in a heat treat furnace. You'll have to do a lot of plane blades to justify that versus sending batches out for treatment though.


----------



## HokieKen

This is O1 Devin.









I've also done 1095 steel successfully. Any 10XX steel should be fine. And I just quench in vegetable oil. I wouldn't attempt hardening any other tool steels without the ability to better regulate temperature and hold temperature for a period of time.


----------



## HokieKen

And the beer only posed for a quick photo and quickly moved away Nathan ;-)


----------



## GrantA

Oh and I guess the cat's outta the bag since there's only one without an R dahmit. I just realized I had an extra letter so I better check the porch


----------



## HokieKen

And now there are 9 fragile shoulder plane irons adorning my patio.









Y'all don't be jealous of my sexy footwear.

I'll pull out my fancy tempering chamber (aka shop toaster oven) tomorrow and temper these suckers, grind the scale off and get them the hell out of my life


----------



## HokieKen

And Devin - you can absolutely harden and temper the steels I mentioned in an afternoon. Takes maybe 10 minutes to harden then maybe 30 minutes for it to cool. Then maybe 2-3 hours to temper depending on your end goal for hardness. But you can even temper in your kitchen oven. And for something as small as those blades I've been doing, it could be done sans forge. I did several small tools like awls and marking knives with only a torch before I bought the small forge. Honestly, I have hardened many knives in my (attached) garage with nothing but a cracked window. Don't let time or space be an obstacle for making blades 

Earl - it's cute that you think you have a choice about the beer swap.

Dave - see above. Replace "Earl" with "Dave"


----------



## HokieKen

I guess if y'all are revealing this week, I'll get a post up for the beer swap next week . Since this swap is winding down a little earlier than normal, we can launch a bit early on the beer swap. Anyone have an opinion on whether I should still let it wrap up the summer (reveals around Labor Day) or close it out mid-August and leave a couple extra weeks for the fall swap? Makes no difference to me so if y'all have a preference I'm all ears.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Oh and I guess the cat s outta the bag since there s only one without an R dahmit. I just realized I had an extra letter so I better check the porch


I was wondering if you'd notice that, Grant. But as I recall, Nathan's in AZ at the moment. I think we're going to be waiting for him to get home or Monday for the reveal. Sorry I didn't think of that earlier.


----------



## bndawgs

> Steve.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


Yup, that's the one I've had. I picked up an imperial stout from the Costco the other day. 
For some reason, a blueberry chocolate stout sounded good at the time.

Now, not so much.


----------



## Lazyman

Yup, I'm in Ruidoso wandering my way back from AZ so I'll be home soon.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Drive safely, Nathan. I hear you're in the state that's the drunk driving capital of the country now.

We're just hanging at home watching our favorite channel from our veranda.


----------



## Lazyman

I'll bet those AZ fires are making your sunsets even prettier.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Yeah, the fires in AZ (and NM) are making sunsets pretty, and so far they haven't hit us with thick enough smoke that we have to keep the windows closed overnight. But the Johnson Fire in NM is up to almost 90,000 acres, and is down to 9-10% contained, after more than a month of burning. Sure hope they get that one under control soon.


----------



## HokieKen

> Yup, that s the one I ve had. I picked up an imperial stout from the Costco the other day.
> For some reason, a blueberry chocolate stout sounded good at the time.
> 
> Now, not so much.
> 
> - Steve


If you bought a beer called a blueberry chocolate stout, you deserved what you got. I might buy that ice cream though ;-)


----------



## doubleG469

> Yup, that s the one I ve had. I picked up an imperial stout from the Costco the other day.
> For some reason, a blueberry chocolate stout sounded good at the time.
> 
> Now, not so much.
> 
> - Steve
> 
> If you bought a beer called a blueberry chocolate stout, you deserved what you got. I might buy that ice cream though ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


This is why I stick to beer clearly labeled/spelled Whiskey.


----------



## DevinT

> And Devin - you can absolutely harden and temper the steels I mentioned in an afternoon. Takes maybe 10 minutes to harden then maybe 30 minutes for it to cool. Then maybe 2-3 hours to temper depending on your end goal for hardness. But you can even temper in your kitchen oven. And for something as small as those blades I've been doing, it could be done sans forge. I did several small tools like awls and marking knives with only a torch before I bought the small forge. Honestly, I have hardened many knives in my (attached) garage with nothing but a cracked window. Don't let time or space be an obstacle for making blades
> 
> Earl - it's cute that you think you have a choice about the beer swap.
> 
> Dave - see above. Replace "Earl" with "Dave"
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks Kenny, I also found this video from Rex Krueger showing me how to do it.


----------



## doubleG469

Alright the spammers finally made it! It's not a swap until the internet trolls come in and try and phish/spam us.


----------



## HokieKen

Looks like a pretty good video. I just skimmed it. I did notice 2 things in my skim though:


I would use fire bricks to make the enclosure. For a one-time shot, what he used was fine but a steel pipe clamped in a steel vise attached to a steel welding table is basically a huge heat sink. You'll need a lot more heat (and therefore a lot more gas) to get to temperature than you would if your enclosure was an insulator instead of a conductor. Even wrapping the pipe in a fireproof insulation would go a long way toward efficiency.
When you quench the steel, especially with something thin like a plane iron, move it straight up and down in the quenchant. The steel is still very hot and in a transitional state and swirling it around can cause it to warp.


----------



## DevinT

THANKS!


----------



## duckmilk

What Kenny said. You can also move the blade straight forward and back in line with the blade edges. The purpose is to keep the quench oil moving and preventing bubbles from forming on the steel, which would give you an uneven quench.


----------



## HokieKen

This part is a little less hands-on


----------



## Lazyman

One problem with using a small toaster oven is that they get hotter than the target temperatures each time that they cycle on. I tempered a small cutter recently and even though I had the temperature set at 400° F, it was 625° when it cycled on to maintain that temperature. You may want to monitor it with an infrared thermometer.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah the temperature is far from constant but I judge it based on the color of the steel afterwards (and it doesn't hurt to have a Rockwell hardness tester at work ;-p). If it doesn't come out the color I want, I'll adjust the temperature and run another cycle. A covection type oven would definitely be a better option though.


----------



## donwilwol

> One problem with using a small toaster oven is that they get hotter than the target temperatures each time that they cycle on. I tempered a small cutter recently and even though I had the temperature set at 400° F, it was 625° when it cycled on to maintain that temperature. You may want to monitor it with an infrared thermometer.
> 
> - Lazyman


I bought one of these. https://amzn.to/3A3b3ii


----------



## DevinT

Added to list


----------



## Lazyman

Don, Do you use it to control the temperature or do you just use it to read the temperature? That thermostat is only rated at 1100W. Most toaster overs are 1500W.


----------



## HokieKen

That's a good idea Don. Do you use it with a cheapo toaster oven? It seems to me like you would still have the same issue that Nathan pointed out with overshoot though since the heating element in the oven is a fixed wattage heater and there's no cooling source. So the thermostat could cut power to the oven once the element raises the temperature but the resistive element will remain hot until the heat is dissipated which will make the oven temp continue to rise after the power is removed. And since there's not a fan or anything, the controller can't regulate that part of the cycle.

On the other hand, one could remove the heating element from a couple of toaster ovens and build their own insulated enclosure with a couple of PC fans to move the air and probably get pretty tight temperature regulation and more uniform heat distribution…

Thanks Don and Nathan. I was desperately in need of some rabbet hole to go down searching for a solution to a problem that I don't really have ;-)


----------



## bndawgs

Speaking of rabbit holes.. I picked this up for cheap. Needed a new battery and carb. Now I need to figure out how to paint the plastic.


----------



## doubleG469

> Speaking of rabbit holes.. I picked this up for cheap. Needed a new battery and carb. Now I need to figure out how to paint the plastic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Steve


Paint? heck roll it like you stole it….


----------



## bndawgs

> Speaking of rabbit holes.. I picked this up for cheap. Needed a new battery and carb. Now I need to figure out how to paint the plastic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Steve
> 
> Paint? heck roll it like you stole it….
> 
> - doubleG469


haha, i have been zooming around the neighborhood on it. it's so much fun. my youngest son thinks the turn signals and horn are the best.


----------



## Lazyman

I think if you get a pink helmet, the color will be perfect.


----------



## DevinT

I totally had enough time to make the second bonus item :'(


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Now I need to figure out how to paint the plastic.


It's almost certainly ABS and won't paint very well, Steve. No matter how you clean it, it'll give off vapors/oils that'll prevent paint from adhering. It's also flexible enough that if you did manage to get paint stuck to it, it would flex off over time.

There are places that make new plastic for such things (and motorcycles like my KLR 650), but I've always found it cheaper to just hit a swap meet and scrounge something used. Or just buy the black plastic generic aftermarket replacement.

Devin, that'll happen. I still have swaps where my timing is off by weeks, and I've been swapping things for a few years now. But they're supposed to be fun, so I try to just roll with it. Especially when trying new things, scheduling is hard.


----------



## HokieKen

Seriously? You are all responding to Steve like it's okay for a grown man to have that?

Devin has ruined y'all.

;-)

JK Steve. Look into epoxy primers and adhesion promoters. Maybe polyester paint? If you can find someone who paints motorcycles professionally, they can probably direct you to appropriate products. Long run though, I think Dave's right, the paint is never gonna stick "forever" and it'll probably even be cheaper to just get some Chinese replacement panels.

Glad to see you have the carrier on the back so there's somewhere to put your purse.


----------



## bndawgs

Haha, the carrier on the back is big enough for my purse and my blueberry chocolate imperials. lol


----------



## DevinT

I've been testing the waters with the spouse regarding me getting a motorcycle for almost 15 years now. I think I'm getting close. The latest deal is that if I never take it on the highways.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

The highways…probably the safest place to be on a motorcycle.

Damn people on their phones in the city.


----------



## DevinT

Dave, I figure I can use this time to edit the 100+ hours of video I produced while making the plane.


----------



## DevinT

> The highways…probably the safest place to be on a motorcycle.
> 
> Damn people on their phones in the city.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


The safest way to ride, I imagine, is to pretend that every vehicle and driver around you is secretly plotting to kill you every second of every day. Therefore, you should do as much as you possibly can to avoid having other vehicles around you.

Then, on top of that, the road itself is conspiring against you as well. So best to ride extra cautiously when you see rough road conditions or are on an unfamiliar road.


----------



## bndawgs

Also, in my defense, i did only get it for $50.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I road for many many years, selling my last Harley around four years ago and riding like everyone around you is trying to kill you makes motorcycling no fun. What's the point if you ride around worrying the whole time? Pointless.

Nice long highway rides is the only way to go these days.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Steve, they paint plastic fenders on cars all the time. I imagine there's a primer of some sort that's made to do the job. Do some google searches. Can't be that hard.

Cool little scooter for $50.


----------



## bndawgs

My other thought was to maybe try and wrap it with vinyl like they do with cars these days.


----------



## HokieKen

That is a cool score for $50 Steve!

The solution is not to live in a big city where you can hit backroads 80% of the time and avoid traffic altogether. Hell, what I call traffic is probably better than back roads in a lot of places. If I spend more than 60 seconds at a stoplight, my head explodes.


----------



## DevinT

Who said avoiding other cars can't be fun? Ever play "tag" as a child?


----------



## bndawgs

Yeah, it's definitely playing russian roulette riding a motorcycle up here on the roads. of course, i get so mad when i see the crotch rockets basically riding down the dotted line to get past all the traffic.


----------



## donwilwol

> I road for many many years, selling my last Harley around four years ago and riding like everyone around you is trying to kill you makes motorcycling no fun. What's the point if you ride around worrying the whole time? Pointless.
> 
> Nice long highway rides is the only way to go these days.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


I sold mine about a year ago. My wife was getting afraid to ride, so we just never rode.



> Seriously? You are all responding to Steve like it's okay for a grown man to have that?
> 
> Devin has ruined y'all.


Says the man in the cape!


----------



## donwilwol

> I road for many many years, selling my last Harley around four years ago and riding like everyone around you is trying to kill you makes motorcycling no fun. What's the point if you ride around worrying the whole time? Pointless.
> 
> Nice long highway rides is the only way to go these days.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


I sold mine about a year ago. My wife was getting afraid to ride, so we just never rode.



> Seriously? You are all responding to Steve like it's okay for a grown man to have that?
> 
> Devin has ruined y'all.


Says the man in the cape!


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Glad to see you have the carrier on the back so there's somewhere to put your purse.


Speaking of purses, did we scare Bill From (no longer) Brooklyn away entirely?

Riding in the city isn't horrible, but you do need to be alert. I have a KLR 650 for such riding, and I was never shy about hopping a curb or otherwise going off-road if the cagers got crazy. ATGATT.

Got a big bike (BMW K1600GTL) for riding road trips. Interstates are much safer as long as things are moving, but you still have to be aware in case something crazy happens.

Bad roads are safest of all (at least with an off-road capable bike). Little traffic, and what there is moves slow. But it's a motorcycle's natural habitat. Just take the MSF rider safety class for city streets, then take their 2-day dirt class for being able to stay in control when you leave the pavement. And be prepared to drop the bike at some point. It's "when", not "if."

Most dangerous place I've ever ridden was the parking lot at work at 4pm on a Friday. Had multiple lawyers backing out of their parking spots not looking and in a hurry to get to happy hour. Dropped the bike *twice* that way to avoid getting run over.

But that's why I had a KLR 650.


----------



## DevinT

I've always been a fan of cruisers. One day!


----------



## bigblockyeti

Like Dave, I have a dual sport, specifically a Suzuki DR and being offroad capable is very handy at times. Once there was a bad accident closing the road ahead of me, a detour would have been ~15 minutes out of my way so I rolled it onto the sideway when a cop said I can't do that. So, I picked it up and carried it ~50' past where the mess was. Driving defensively can be helped with power but you have to know how to use it, my previous crotch rocket was wheelie limited on acceleration, my current big bike (VN2000J8F) is severely traction limited.

I always recommend training to anyone considering getting a bike for the first time or after a significant hiatus from being in the saddle. Riding needs to be safe but should be fun too. There's nothing like plopping down $10K for something with an unlimited mileage 2-3 year warranty that gets 40+mpg, takes up less room than a riding mower and for a few hundred $$ will easily dispatch a Tesla model S plaid.


----------



## LeeRoyMan

> The safest way to ride, I imagine, is to pretend that every vehicle and driver around you is secretly plotting to kill you every second of every day. Therefore, you should do as much as you possibly can to avoid having other vehicles around you.
> 
> Then, on top of that, the road itself is conspiring against you as well. So best to ride extra cautiously when you see rough road conditions or are on an unfamiliar road.
> 
> - DevinT


The problem is you can't stop the idiot behind you, 
that's talking on their cell phone, while you're stopped at a red light.

This is the reason I don't ride anymore. 
I can dodge traffic, be in the right place to avoid stuff, 
but there is just no safe way to stop the guy from running over you're back…
(maybe ride on the sidewalk)


----------



## EarlS

How do you think those of us that do a lot of bicycle riding feel with the idiots out there on the roads? I've been hit by a car twice, and had a friend get killed a couple years back. There have been 4 car/bicycle fatalities in our immediate area this year. In all of these cases, the car driver was totally at fault.


----------



## HokieKen

The biggest danger around town is people not paying attention and noticing your even there. Riding naked reduces the likelihood of that greatly. When my wife rides with me, it mitigates it altogether.

I agree with taking a class. I rode dirt and trail bikes for a lot of years but my wife wanted to learn to ride so we took a class together. They did a much better job of teaching her to handle a bike than I ever could have. And some of the defensive riding stuff was very useful to me. I've also discovered that there's very little similarity between riding trails on 250 ccs that you could carry back to the truck if you really had to and a 750 lb 1600cc beast with 8" tires on the asphalt. They're both a helluvalotta fun though


----------



## HokieKen

> How do you think those of us that do a lot of bicycle riding feel with the idiots out there on the roads? I ve been hit by a car twice, and had a friend get killed a couple years back. There have been 4 car/bicycle fatalities in our immediate area this year. In all of these cases, the car driver was totally at fault.
> 
> - EarlS


I've been shot in the leg twice at a local grocery store. A friend got shot in the head at the same store. And 4 other people have been shot dead in that store this year alone.

If it doesn't get better soon, I might quit going to that grocery store.

Mountain bike Earl. Get off them Iowa roads and out into those cornfields!


----------



## JohnMcClure

So has Grant even shipped yet? or are you shipping overnight on the 27th for a late-monday-night reveal? And/or, is Nathan even coming home in time for it to matter?


----------



## GrantA

Dave said Nathan will be home Monday so I'm making it a lil mobetta as we speak and will have it on his porch Saturday waiting on his return.
I have not opened what I received yet either it's on the bench as a prize


----------



## DavePolaschek

No idea, John. Nobody has told me what's up.

But I think Nathan said he was working his way home.

And Grant just responded. Thanks, buddy! Having it there Saturday means we reveal on either Sunday or Monday, depending on Nathan's schedule.


----------



## HokieKen

You reveal on Monday. I'm not spending a weekend day sitting in front of my computer ;-)


----------



## bigblockyeti

> The biggest danger around town is people not paying attention and noticing your even there. Riding naked reduces the likelihood of that greatly.
> - HokieKen


You've gotta at least wear chaps, road rash can be bad without at least a little protection!


----------



## DavePolaschek

> You reveal on Monday. I m not spending a weekend day sitting in front of my computer ;-)


Ok. So if Nathan's home and has received his goodies from Grant, we reveal on Sunday. ;-P

More seriously, I'm fine with Monday too.


----------



## DevinT

Don't I know it (but not from riding motorcycles).

I've been hit by 4 cars in my life. Three times, I was on bicycle, once on inline skates (aka roller blades). Many years apart, but sometimes it was my fault and sometimes it was their fault; about 50/50 (maybe 25/75, but the jury is out on that one).

When I was hit in the cross-walk while on skates, I was knocked to the road and got some serious road rash. That one also messed up my back for about 20 years (maybe longer; but the amount of times I've thrown my back out since then has been getting less frequent as time goes-on).

What can I say, I was a magnet for cars when I was younger.

*EDIT:* Derp, almost forgot about that time I went full speed head-long into the back of a parked car because I looked away for a split second. That was fun.


----------



## Lazyman

> Seriously? You are all responding to Steve like it s okay for a grown man to have that?
> 
> Devin has ruined y all.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> JK Steve. Look into epoxy primers and adhesion promoters. Maybe polyester paint? If you can find someone who paints motorcycles professionally, they can probably direct you to appropriate products. Long run though, I think Dave s right, the paint is never gonna stick "forever" and it ll probably even be cheaper to just get some Chinese replacement panels.
> 
> Glad to see you have the carrier on the back so there s somewhere to put your purse.
> 
> - HokieKen


Dang it Kenny, I was hoping to get a picture of him riding it with a pink helmet.


----------



## HokieKen




----------



## HokieKen

> You ve gotta at least wear chaps, road rash can be bad without at least a little protection!
> 
> - bigblockyeti


I have enough hair that it looks like chaps.


----------



## Lazyman

I'm home BTW. I am okay if you guys want to go ahead and start the reveal. I am okay with revealing whenever.

...but in the meantime, might as well reveal one of my failures that didn't make it into the box. This was going to be a bonus. It is a roundover plane (Pask Makes version). It's made from ipe and southern live oak. It looks nice but only works under ideal circumstances where the grain runs perfectly down the edge. I think I need to make a new cutter or at least play around with the cutting edge some. It will make a nice roundover with nice grain but if the grain changes direction it just chips it off and doesn't work at all on end grain. 



























As you can see from the second picture, the metal pin bent when I tried to peen it. I was going to replace it but when I could not get it to work well enough, I set it aside.


----------



## HokieKen

Very nice looking Nathan! Is it bevel up or bevel down? And what's the bed angle? Did you grind the blade with a radius or elliptical like the radius projected on an angle?


----------



## DavePolaschek

My friend who runs Traction eRag (a Canadian off-road motorcycle mag) puts on clinics. The most embarrassing fall or mental mistake of each day earns the perpetrator a pink tutu.

https://www.facebook.com/cross.training.enduro.skills/videos/tutu-enduro-moments-in-quebeccross-training-enduro/884695082347933/

Not for the weak of stomach.


----------



## GrantA

Ahh crap sorry Nathan I won't make it to fedex in time today (we don't have late night drop-off like the big city folks). Be on the lookout Saturday for the fedex van with some goodies!


----------



## DavePolaschek

> I'm home BTW. I am okay if you guys want to go ahead and start the reveal. I am okay with revealing whenever.


Let's wait until Sunday. Or Monday if we want to be nice to Kenny. Unless Devin is getting too itchy wanting to show off her build.


----------



## Lazyman

"Die young as late as possible." Words to live by.

Kenny, It is bevel down and the bed angle is 45°. It looks elliptical or perhaps hyperbolic to me (one of those conical shapes anyway). I first ground a 25° bevel and then used a round file to cut the profile by hand holding it at about the same angle and honed it with wet/dry sandpaper on a dowel. I then eased the corner to prevent it from gouging the sides during the cut. It looks a little ugly now after fiddling with it for several days before I stopped and moved on to plan D. 

















It actually makes a nice roundover as long as the grain is not too crazy but not well enough that you would want to risk using it to ease an edge in the final steps of finishing up a project. You can actually see round overs on the painted poplar it is sitting on but the grain is nice and straight and the poplar is easy to work anyway.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that it takes a little fiddling to get the depth of the iron just right too. Not that hard really but takes a light touch to set it correctly.


----------



## Lazyman

No worries Grant.


----------



## HokieKen

My best guess is that it's just a matter of not having anyway to control the shaving Nathan. With no chipbreaker and an open mouth like that it can just dig in and keep plowing wood up until the wood naturally breaks or the throat clogs. I think I'd try a 5-10 degree back bevel on it to give it a more of a scraping action. That's just a gut-guess. I've never had a roundover plane so I'm not sure how they're typically bedded. I do use block planes to break corners though and know that if I leave the throat gappy, it tends to behave more like a chisel and wedges into the wood trying to dig deeper but setting the throat good and tight leaves much cleaner cuts.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I wonder if tightening the mouth by putting a shim behind the blade would solve the problem, Nathan. It would sure be easy to test. The other thing I would be tempted to try would be to make the wooden wedge (cap iron) longer so it behaves like a chip-breaker. Also a relatively quick test that might just work.


----------



## Lazyman

The back bevel is a good idea but not sure how to do that on the curved edge. I tried just honing the backside with the dowel and sandpaper and it is hard to get a bevel along the entire edge. My technique seems to take more from the middle than the edges. It might require a smaller diameter than the dowel I used to hone main bevel?


----------



## DevinT

I gather my recipient will be finished reading my documentation soon.


----------



## Lazyman

Not sure that a shim behind the blade will help. Because of the shape of the sole, it is about 3/8" between the cutting edge to the front of the mouth. 








If I had made the infill at the toe vertical or even angled slightly towards the back, I suppose it would make the mouth tighter but it would probably clog pretty easily.

I initially had the wedge longer but I don't remember why I shortened it. The live oak was supposed to be temporary and I was going to get a piece of brass to make the wedge before I aborted. I may have to try making a longer wedge again to act like a chip breaker but getting it close enough to the edge to help may be difficult.

It is probably just a bad Youtube design.


----------



## GrantA

Nathan it looks like it needs more of an oval, do you have a carving chisel hone? Little block with a bunch of profiles and you put abrasive paste on it. Maybe random moldings in your scrap bin that may have a complementary curve?


----------



## Lazyman

The profile it yields is actually pretty nice. The problem is mostly dealing with grain direction changes along an edge.


----------



## DevinT

This may not help you, Nathan, but I get the best roundover performance from my 2-bladed Radi plane from Stockton, CA. Both blades are the same shape but the leading blade is offset to take a small bite ahead of the trailing blade.


----------



## Lazyman

I sort of do the same thing by taking a light pass first and then applying a more pressure in subsequent passes. It also helps if you start at the far end and take longer and longer passes sort of like you do with a plough plane when cutting a groove or a rabbet-at least when the grain doesn't change direction.


----------



## DevinT

+1 on doing longer and longer strokes until you reach the end where you didn't start. Then once you have reached that point, then full-length end-to-end passes until nothing more is removed.

Like this


----------



## EarlS

I must say, maybe for all of the rest ofus that didn't participate, that I have learned more about planes, bevel angles, frogs, and a whole mess of other terms and techniques than I ever dreamed could apply to something as 'simple' as a plane. I can also say that all of this new found knowledge makes me even more intimidated than ever to try making a plane.

I think I'll stick to mallets.


----------



## Lazyman

I used to be intimidated by planes too. Making them is still a little intimidating but you learn a lot in the process. I learned the most by buying some cheap rusty old planes, cleaning them up and working through the process of getting them to work well. Once you get them to make that shhhhhhhick sound as they take a crepe paper ribbon of wood, it becomes addictive. I don't know how much wood (not to mention time) I have wasted just because of how gratifying it is when you get one to really work like it should.


----------



## doubleG469

> I must say, maybe for all of the rest ofus that didn t participate, that I have learned more about planes, bevel angles, frogs, and a whole mess of other terms and techniques than I ever dreamed could apply to something as simple as a plane. I can also say that all of this new found knowledge makes me even more intimidated than ever to try making a plane.
> 
> I think I ll stick to mallets.
> 
> - EarlS


+1


----------



## MikeB_UK

I think you might just have too much iron sticking out Nathan.
Ideally you want the sole of the plane to follow the profile of the iron, same as you would with a moulding plane.

This one catches slightly sometimes where the edges just stick out a bit on the flat part of the iron


----------



## GR8HUNTER

SOME 1 just ask about Bill he is still posting maybe he no like us anymore LMAO :<))))))

As always, nice work Art! I haven't posted much either, but not because of lack of projects. I've just been enjoying freedom again 

-Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City


----------



## LeeRoyMan

> SOME 1 just ask about Bill he is still posting maybe he no like us anymore LMAO :<))))))
> 
> As always, nice work Art! I haven't posted much either, but not because of lack of projects. I've just been enjoying freedom again
> 
> -Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City
> 
> - GR8HUNTER


Prison is tough,
Glad your out and about.


----------



## HokieKen

Bill pops in occasionally. Last time I talked to him he had bought a Porsche and I think he joined some club up in Pittsburgh. I think he prefers to spend his time out on the road rather than in the shop these days


----------



## LeeRoyMan

> +1 on doing longer and longer strokes until you reach the end where you didn t start. Then once you have reached that point, then full-length end-to-end passes until nothing more is removed.
> 
> Like this
> 
> - DevinT


Geeze Louise, 
I'm not a plane guy, but if the roundover didn't work, he certainly has the skills to start a fire.


----------



## GR8HUNTER

> Bill pops in occasionally. Last time I talked to him he had bought a Porsche and I think he joined some club up in Pittsburgh. I think he prefers to spend his time out on the road rather than in the shop these days
> 
> - HokieKen


its a shame to have that nice shop sit empty …. with no projects .... maybe winter time when you cant drive a por cha :<)))


----------



## Lazyman

> I think you might just have too much iron sticking out Nathan.
> 
> - MikeB_UK


Could be Mike, It does work better when it just barely shows through the bottom but for the radius I ground it has to stick out a little more than yours to get the full profile. Maybe I will try making a cutter with a smaller radius. This one is about 1/8 radius (I used a 1/4" dowel with sandpaper to hone it).


----------



## bndawgs

worksharp knife sharpener on sale for $56. worth it?


----------



## Keebler1

I think it is its what i use


----------



## Keebler1

Can those benjamins best lathe tools be used out of the box or should i sharpen them first?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> Can those benjamins best lathe tools be used out of the box or should i sharpen them first?
> 
> - Keebler1


I don't think any tools come out of the box ready especially discount tools.

Even Veritas sends "ready to use" irons and I think they can be honed out of the box.


----------



## HokieKen

> worksharp knife sharpener on sale for $56. worth it?
> 
> - Steve


I have the Ken Onion version and the jury is still out for me. It does a good job on knives that you want a convex edge on and it works pretty well on larger knives. But if you want a flat bevel, it won't do it. It's also hard to do smaller blades because it's hard to keep the blade aligned on the angle guide.

I'm not sure I'd go with that version personally. You have two angle choices: 25 or 30 degrees, the belts are only 1/2" wide and it's not variable speed. The Ken Onion version costs a little more but it can do any angle from 15-30 degrees, uses 3/4" belts and is VS. Even it isn't reversible though and I think that would go a long ways towards making it more effective.


----------



## Keebler1

Ok thats what I was thinking. Thanks


----------



## HokieKen

> Can those benjamins best lathe tools be used out of the box or should i sharpen them first?
> 
> - Keebler1
> 
> I don't think any tools come out of the box ready especially discount tools.
> 
> Even Veritas sends "ready to use" irons and I think they can be honed out of the box.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


+1 I'd definitely sharpen before use.


----------



## DevinT

I don't yet have a drill press, but I am looking for something like what Terry from HNT uses

Anybody ever seen a "W.A.S.P." belt sanding attachment for their drill press?


----------



## HokieKen

Nope but that's mighty slick Devin! Get your wallet ready if you want a drill press that will run that slow though ;-)


----------



## DevinT

Had my eye on the Viking


----------



## GrantA

Alright folks Nathan has a FedEx priority overnight Saturday delivery box on the way. It's the package I received as I refuse to delay y'all any longer.

Nathan- you will still get the plane I made but it's not quite ready, I'll try to send it Monday. I want someone to test it and give me some feedback as I plan to sell em

It's not fair for me to keep a plane from this swap and had I known you'd be home before Monday I would have done this before now.

I'll still hang around if you'll let me though!

Now that that's out of the way, the straw that broke the camels back was when the milling machine caught an edge today and damaged a part. I don't need to be rushing anything involving machine work and sharp bits. Have I mentioned how much I love 4140 steel? Lol

I will go ahead and finish out a small batch like I started originally and send one to our fearless leader too as a consolation prize.

I'm truly sorry for causing a setback, that's the last thing I wanted.


----------



## GrantA

Devin what does that setup cost versus a 2×72 belt grinder though? If you're going to be doing blade work like you've mentioned you should be looking at those. Dave K has a really nice commercial unit. Kenny has a nice diy. I have a diy that doesn't work so swell and I also have a box of aluminum pieces ready for some layout and drilling/tapping to bolt together into my new improved version. Pick your poison but I think you should allow about $800 minimum for a diy one.


----------



## Keebler1

Devin if you are looking at that viking you might give Rich Bolduc a shout. He works for teknatool and might have some insight as far as quirks and whatnot


----------



## Lazyman

> I don t yet have a drill press, but I am looking for something like what Terry from HNT uses
> 
> Anybody ever seen a "W.A.S.P." belt sanding attachment for their drill press?
> 
> - DevinT


That would pretty easy to make but if you are just going to be using it on the spindle like he does in the video, you might as well just use a drum sander.

BTW, Shopnotes Magazine has a couple of different DIY drill press belt sander designs. They also have a couple of plans that use a disk similar to the worksharp 3000. If you scroll down the page on the 2nd link, you will see a DIY slow speed grinder for the drill press.

I highly recommend buying the shopnotes archive library. Tons of great plans. I just stumbled upon a link where you may be able to access them for free.


----------



## Lazyman

> Can those benjamins best lathe tools be used out of the box or should i sharpen them first?
> 
> - Keebler1
> 
> I don't think any tools come out of the box ready especially discount tools.
> 
> Even Veritas sends "ready to use" irons and I think they can be honed out of the box.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


When I bought them about 5 years ago, they were usable right out of the box but they were definitely not as sharp as I get them using the right jigs.


----------



## Keebler1

Thanks Nathan. My jig is supposed to come off backorder and ship today but havent gotten email notification about it yet


----------



## DevinT

Well, you're right, in the point of economy, what I ought to do is to retrofit my Bucktool belt/disc bench sander before I use it for creating blades. You see, I've been led to believe that working metal with it will cause parts of the sander to melt.

This person, though they don't go into details, fixed the problem on their Bucktool by putting a piece of some kind of glass underneath the belt and using what looks like epoxy to fix it to the tool.

Thoughts on doing what he did?


----------



## GrantA

If you're wanting it just for sharpening that'd be fine. A glass or ceramic platen is a great addition, although I think Kenny had some static issues with that (Kenny?)
If you're wanting to shape supersteels with it, that sander is nothing like a 2×72 and will be an exercise in frustration. Trust me. A 2×72 with good belts (look at trugrit) will eat tool steel for breakfast.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> I'm truly sorry for causing a setback, that's the last thing I wanted.


Not to worry, Grant. I figured we'd have a few drops due to the fact that plane-making is hard. Sorry we ended up losing four out of twelve from the rolls, though.

Note for the next person to run a plane swap (even if that's me): be strict about the progress photos. If it's not recognizably a plane by the halfway point, it probably ain't gonna be, and people are incredibly reluctant to switch to a plan B at that point (sunk cost fallacy?).

With that, we're basically wrapped up. We can start reveals tomorrow once Nathan receives his box of goodies. Anyone have objections to letting Nathan start the festivities?


----------



## HokieKen

I did that on my belt grinder platen Devin. Use ceramic glass like what's used for fireplace doors and hi-temp epoxy. I did it to avoid wear on the steel platen on mine. I used a similar Chinesium 4×36 sander and a smaller 1×30 to make blades before I built my belt grinder. In all truth, heat aside, anything above 320 or so will be useless on a belt that short running that fast. Using tools like that that lack adjustable speed motors means you need to just resign yourself to shaping with power and polishing and finishing with a lot of elbow grease. Which even with super fine belts on a VS reversible grinder, I still spend a buttload of time hand sanding when I make blades I want presentable.

Edit to add: the glass platen does really up the static buildup on cloth-backed belts. I did all kinds of stuff to try to solve the problem. A spray can of static guard lives by my belt grinder now and so far has been 100% effective.


----------



## DevinT

Dave, No objection here.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Not technically in the swap, but no objection.

Soon we'll find out who forgot to take pics before shipping


----------



## DevinT

Oh shoot, I knew I forgot to do something! (kidding)


----------



## HokieKen

I dunno Dave. My progress pic was pretty legit.









I even made two of em and look how that turned out ;-)


----------



## MikeB_UK

I think you're the only person to ever send an instruction manual 

It's normally more along the lines of - Pointy end toward the wood, good luck.


----------



## duckmilk

> Had my eye on the Viking
> 
> - DevinT


This belt grinder business is located in Carrollton TX and is family owned. Their base package begins at $1700 but comes with a lot of goodies. Their site is full of accessories and videos. I called them before the virus thing and was wanting to go visit the shop. They were very friendly and welcoming to visitors.


----------



## DevinT

> I think you re the only person to ever send an instruction manual
> 
> It s normally more along the lines of - Pointy end toward the wood, good luck.
> 
> - MikeB_UK


LoL. Well, I wanted them to know where all 13 moving parts were. I guess most planes only have 7 moving parts (frog, 2 frog screws, blade, yoke, thumb wheel, and lateral adjuster); sometimes an eighth when the lateral adjuster has a rotating wheel on it where it makes contact with the blade. What could the 6 mystery moving parts be, I wonder?


----------



## DevinT

Thanks duck. Bookmarked for the end of the year.


----------



## doubleG469

> Can those benjamins best lathe tools be used out of the box or should i sharpen them first?
> 
> - Keebler1
> I don't think any tools come out of the box ready especially discount tools.
> Even Veritas sends "ready to use" irons and I think they can be honed out of the box.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts
> 
> +1 I d definitely sharpen before use.
> 
> - HokieKen


I would not sharpen before you figure out your veri grind. you can mess one up real fast.


----------



## doubleG469

> Thanks Nathan. My jig is supposed to come off backorder and ship today but havent gotten email notification about it yet
> 
> - Keebler1


My FIL is in town this weekend but if you'd like to swing by and see the set up we could arrange some time.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> I dunno Dave. My progress pic was pretty legit.


Yeah, and you had the sense to back out when your schedule packed up on you. But "legit" or not, I think if I run another plane swap, that won't be enough of a progress picture for me. It's just one part of a plane, and as Devin points out, they have 7 moving parts that need to attach to that. Or at least a cuppa-tree for a Krenov style plane.

I'll have to figure how to spell that out, but I can probably come up with something. And it's a lot better to tell one person, "no, you're not far enough along" than to have folks disappointed at the end. Or have me trying to remote-troubleshoot problems with someone who's already frustrated.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> Had my eye on the Viking
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> This belt grinder business is located in Carrollton TX and is family owned. Their base package begins at $1700 but comes with a lot of goodies. Their site is full of accessories and videos. I called them before the virus thing and was wanting to go visit the shop. They were very friendly and welcoming to visitors.
> 
> - duckmilk


I've owned a Reeder for several years now. Good stuff.


----------



## HokieKen

I resent that Dave. I don't like being accused of having sense.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Not even a sense of smell, Kenny?

Or perhaps, "even a blind pig…"

Isn't it Happy Hour yet where you are?


----------



## HokieKen

Funny enough, you can't accuse me of having a sense of smell. Had Covid back in November and still haven't got it back. And we have company in town this weekend. So happy hour isn't until Sunday evening at best for me…


----------



## EarlS

> Had my eye on the Viking
> 
> - DevinT


+1 - I've been eyeing one of those as well. The PC I bought on CL is basically worthless. Thought I would wait for the world wide supply chain mess to calm down a bit first.

I'd better start working on a beer mallet or something since Kenny insists I'm signed up. Don't want to miss the progress pic. Spent 7 hours in the shop and managed to sand the bench legs and rails, drill 2 holes, and decide I need to add some support ribs to the long rails since the undercabinet will be heavy. Oh, and I cleaned up, a lot, as usual.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> I'll have to figure how to spell that out, but I can probably come up with something. And it's a lot better to tell one person, "no, you're not far enough along" than to have folks disappointed at the end. Or have me trying to remote-troubleshoot problems with someone who's already frustrated.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Dunno, it's a weird one, a lot of things don't look close to done until you're about 90% there.

Maybe 2 leagues, one for overachievers and one for us slow folks?


----------



## Lazyman

I sent progress pictures but nothing I showed him is even close to what I eventually sent. Being retired, as opposed to spending all day at work posting on LJ all day, has its advantages. I almost backed out prior to progress picture but I had a vintage plane that I refurbished that was my emergency plane.


----------



## EricFai

Dave, I would have to say that Nathan, should be the one to start the reveals.

I am waiting for the comments to see how I did at least. And also for the others to see what has been produced.

The one I received shall be put to good use, once I get that boat project of mine started. I do need to figure out a jig to make scarf joints. And it shall make a wonderful thickness planer.


----------



## Lazyman

I'll kick it off as soon as I unpack and take some pictures. If I had known that Grant was going to send me what he received, I would have told him to hold it and I would just display some pictures of a gold plated, blinged out plane or a maybe just a box and its contents crushed to small shards.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Sounds good, Nathan. Everyone else, you're free to post what you *received* in this thread after Nathan has posted his. And then once your recipient has posted theirs (or on Monday if they haven't posted yet by then), you can post your project.

Thanks for a fun swap, folks. Sorry folks had problems along the way. Hope y'all learned bunches along the way. Important life lessons, like Kenny has no sense. Or nonsense. Or something.


----------



## jeffswildwood

I'll be watching for the reveal! I can't wait to see the fine work everyone did. I wish I could have got in this but after reading all the posts, I still say I would have been in over my head! Good job staying the coarse everyone.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Multiple members decided their plane concepts are so cool, they want to make more and sell them (Grant and Devin). Isn't that a first for any swap?


----------



## Lazyman

I'll be monitoring my ring doorbell camera closely this morning. FedEx says it is supposed to be delivered by noon CDT so get your popcorn and beer ready for some revealing today.


----------



## DevinT

Sweet! Just so people know, I use twitter as an image hosting service for Lumber Jocks. I post photos to my twitter account and then copy the image address and paste it into LJ posts. I find that to be a convenient way of both hosting my images and also telling if/when twitter ever stops hosting something (though in my experience, they tend to host things for many years). So those of you that know what my twitter handle is will be able to see the fun (*after* Nathan posts first) before I create the blog article on what I received.


----------



## GrantA

Nathan you need to sit on the porch with a cold beer this is no time to watch the ring camera 









And before reveals start I have to share this one- made me think of Earl bahahaha


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> Multiple members decided their plane concepts are so cool, they want to make more and sell them (Grant and Devin). Isn t that a first for any swap?
> 
> - JohnMcClure


JayT sells his peak-a-boo planes which premiered in a swap.

Also my turning tool line came from a swap originally as well.

Dave


----------



## DevinT

Looks like this one


----------



## KelleyCrafts

That's the one.


----------



## Lazyman

I was out going to garage sales and right as we got home, the FedEx truck drove up to deliver a box of awesome so here we go. This was made by John McClure of rosewood with maple splines and wedge. All I can say is that Grant must not have open the box before he forwarded it on to me because if this I were him and had seen this I would have told me to just wait. The finish is excellent and is silky smooth. I'll probably be carrying it around all day. At just under 2 lbs, it has just the right amount of mass. Of course I gave it a quick test. It had no problems smoothing the ridges on some rough bois d'arc and it made crepe paper like ribbons of some cedar (it was at the top of the scrape pile). Excellent work John … and Grant: Hah-Hah!


----------



## DevinT

Looks like the wood is bookmatched! Quite nice!


----------



## EricFai

John made a beautiful plane, looks very nice.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I received a package from George Woodmaster1, by way of Gary. Included was a beautiful sycamore smoother:










and a chisel plane:










I didn't have a chisel plane before, and if I need to clean up glue in a corner I've just used a chisel and a prayer in the past. This makes it much easier to avoid dinging up an inside corner when trying to clean up some glue. And the smoother is a pretty one that'll get put into the rotation. Not quite sure where it'll fit in yet, but I'll find a setup and use for it soon.

Also included was Gary's plane, which he couldn't get working. I noticed that when the chip-breaker was properly adjusted (as close to the bevel as possible), the blade wasn't sticking out. So I wheeled the belt-sander outside and buzzed about 3/64 off the sole of the plane. Put it back together, adjusted the chip-breaker back a hair, and got raggedy shavings. I'm working on getting some other projects cleared out of the way, and then I'll go back to fine-tuning Gary's plane and maybe finishing it. It's pretty wood, but completely unfinished now, so it'll be some work. What do you think, buddy?


----------



## EricFai

Pretty grain pattern done by Wood master


----------



## EricFai

This was received from Devin, beautifully crafted, and the bonus item will be put to use in the future. Well done. The persistence paid off for her.





































Had to give it a spin, shavings are mahogany.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Nathan/John
Really nice smoother, love the shape.

Dave/George
Again really nice - the sides of that smoother look stunning, what wood is that?

Eric/Devin
Thickness planer with a norris adjuster, fancy


----------



## MikeB_UK

Well, stuck over here like Billy-No-Mates on this side of the pond, I chucked this together anyway.
I have an advantage where I could take pics where the duct tape doesn't show though 

A screw-stem plough plane
Beefier and curvier than the traditional ones to fit my oversize monkey paws.
Made of Beech/spalted beech body and fence, birch screw and bubinga strike point and wedge.
Bit of a rush toward the end, the bolts were going to be bubinga as well, but ran out of time.


----------



## drsurfrat

I got my plane from Nathan (Lazyman). It is a scraper plane and burnisher. It is similar to the No80, and he so wisely included instructions for sharpening. I didn't get to test drive it yet, the ugly boards I am working on do not deserve this attention yet. The wood is fantastic, never even seen it before. I will let him brag about that. Eventhe thumbscrews are classy.


----------



## EricFai

Looks like Nathan did a very nice job. Like the grain on the piece.


----------



## DevinT

Such an interesting wood. Very nice! I can't wait to hear more about that wood. I'd love to see what that scraper looks like with a blade installed (or is it just that the angle of the photo makes it hard to see?)


----------



## MikeB_UK

Mike/Nathan

Scraper plane looks awesome, burnisher is a nice touch.

Good luck with the instuctions Mike, sharpening a scraper is a black art


----------



## duckmilk

John, George, Devin and Nathan, really great work on those planes. Looking forward to the project posts.
Mike, sorry you had to participate all by yourself. Kinda spoils the surprise for you, but the plane looks great.


----------



## GR8HUNTER

*KEEP EM COMING BOYS & GIRLS :<)))*


----------



## Keebler1

As always great work yall wish I couldve participated but have too many projects. Almost have too many to participate in the beer swap but will manage that one


----------



## DevinT

I received my plane from MakerOfSawdust.

I did not have a chisel plane and I wanted one, so that worked out really well. I love the shape and the Hock blade (at 3/16" thick) makes the whole thing a very nice weight. Excellent work. I wonder what the wood is.

This is my first Hock blade. I have to say they are quite nice. In one of the photos below, notice the hollowed-out bevel which makes honing a breeze.


----------



## Lazyman

Thanks guys.



> Mike/Nathan
> Good luck with the instuctions Mike, sharpening a scraper is a black art
> 
> - MikeB_UK


You ain't kidding. I was getting a little nervous a couple of days before shipping but I finally figured out that I was applying too much pressure with too many passes with the burnisher and over bending the bur.

The blade is in there Devin. It just barely sticks up above the top. The wood on the plane is the spalted or ambrosia hickory that I showed before and the burnisher handle is bois d'arc. The hickory tree died during a drought and ambrosia beetles attacked it, giving it the incredible grain, before I helped my neighbor cut it down.


----------



## DevinT

Awesome, Nathan.


----------



## drsurfrat

I have had spotty luck with sharpening loose card scrapers, so this will make me do it right. Nathan gave me some pointers in the note he included as well.
The blade is in there. The gap is so so well mated that running my finger over it, I can hardly feel it if I don't look.


----------



## Lazyman

Ooo. I really like that sawdust maker chisel plane. Looks like mahogany? I contemplated making a chisel plane too but could not find a design I liked. That one is pretty cool. How wide is it?

Mike, I think we need to see some action shots! Very cool plough plane.

I am looking forward to the project posting on your plane Devin, including a few close-ups.

The quarter sawn sycamore is pretty special on that smoother.


----------



## Lazyman

> I have had spotty luck with sharpening loose card scrapers, so this will make me do it right. Nathan gave me some pointers in the note he included as well.
> The blade is in there. The gap is so so well mated that running my finger over it, I can hardly feel it if I don t look.
> 
> - drsurfrat


I think that sharpening card scrapers was part of my problem before it finally clicked. With card scarpers it takes more pressure to roll both sides of the flat edge. On a cabinet scraper plane, you grind and hone the edge to 45° and roll the bur away from the bevel-basically messing up your nice sharp bevel. Because the edge is sharp, it doesn't take as much pressure to get a good bur.


----------



## EricFai

Maker of Sawdust, beautiful chisel plane. Well done


----------



## MikeB_UK

Devin/MakerOfSawdust
Very nice, that's a style I've not seen before for a chisel plane, looks great.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Great job, John! Glad it all came together!

George, once again, well done with the planes I received! Mike, that looks like quarter-sawn sycamore to me.

Devin, very nice! Nobody would know you're a rookie!

Mike, sorry you didn't have a mate to swap with, but you get to keep your beautiful plough plane this way, so that's some consolation! I sure wish we could've had it in the swap, though.

Nathan, that's a gorgeous scraper plane! Beats the pants off my rusty old Stanley 80 for looks!

Kevin, great job on the chisel plane! Another great rookie attempt!

Keep 'em coming, folks!


----------



## Lazyman

Don't forget to tag "2021 plane swap" when you post your project. Mine is up!


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thanks for the reminder, Nathan!

I'm also going to add the projects to the list in the first post on the thread, so please post here so I don't miss one!


----------



## drsurfrat

You asked for action photos:
Before and after on a piece of cherry. Look at those curls.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Mike, that looks like quarter-sawn sycamore to me.


Just looked it up, we have different definitions of sycamore 
Ours is, essentially, maple. I'd mistatenly assumed the body was sycamore and the sides were something else.


----------



## Lazyman

Sweet! Works even better than expected.


----------



## DavePolaschek

The sides are sycamore, aka American plane and the body is something else.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Mike, that looks like quarter-sawn sycamore to me.
> 
> Just looked it up, we have different definitions of sycamore
> Ours is, essentially, maple. I d mistakenly assumed the body was sycamore and the sides were something else.
> 
> - MikeB_UK


----------



## Lazyman

> Mike, that looks like quarter-sawn sycamore to me.
> 
> Just looked it up, we have different definitions of sycamore
> Ours is, essentially, maple. I d mistatenly assumed the body was sycamore and the sides were something else.
> 
> - MikeB_UK


Brits call it plane tree. The London Plane tree is sometimes planted here. The American species looks very similar but the leaves are about 3 times larger.


----------



## DevinT

Lost some typing; re-did it


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Always write it up on a word doc or equivalent Devin, then copy and paste.

Well done everyone!! How many more we have left? Kenny usually keeps track and I'm to lazy.


----------



## DevinT

Thanks. Will do that next time.


----------



## DavePolaschek

So sorry, Devin. The software here is not very robust.

I generally write long posts in the Notes application on my iPad and then copy-paste when I'm close enough to need to start previewing.


----------



## DevinT

Thanks. I'll do that next time. For now, I just quickly re-typed what I had loosely written.


----------



## Lazyman

When doing a long write up, I usually select and copy the text before hitting post or any other browser navigation. That will even save any images you have embedded.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Or before switching apps if you're on an iOS device where the browser might get booted from memory. But note that there's an indicator below the post button telling you when a draft has been saved via JavaScript. No easy way to access that other than trying to post and hoping it pre-fills the editing field for you, though.










Nice job on the plane and the writeup, especially given the state of the software here.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> How many more we have left?


Well, I think we've had four official planes, plus Mike playing with himself. Two projects linked above, so I'm waiting on six more projects, and four people to post what they got.


----------



## duckmilk

> When doing a long write up, I usually select and copy the text before hitting post or any other browser navigation. That will even save any images you have embedded.
> 
> - Lazyman


Shoot, I just write it up in the box and usually embarrass myself.

5 planes plus Mike's by my count. Poor choice of words there Dave ;-P


----------



## Lazyman

I have a feeling that the choice of words was intentional.


----------



## JohnMcClure

I am late to the party, been busy all day.
Some cool planes out there! I can't wait to check em out in the projects section. 
I received a beast of a plane from Eric!


















Does that count as a jointer? The coolest thing about it is the body is solid - no glued sandwich. That speaks to the painstaking dedication required to form the throat and bed.
Knob and tote are great too.
Oh, and a bonus item! Really cool turned hammer:









Thanks Eric!

Oh and I got the plane working, Eric, had to dress up the wedge slightly but mostly I was an idiot and don't want to admit what I did wrong during setup. All good now though!


----------



## Lazyman

Nice plane Eric. I was wondering if someone was finally going to show us a big plane. Something along those lines was one of my mental iterations but I aborted the idea early on. I can guarantee that had I tried to carve out the innards like that it would not have gone well. The hammer is pretty cool too.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Wow, nice work, Eric! That's either a jack, a jointer, or a try plane. I'll leave it to Eric to say for sure.



> Poor choice of words there Dave ;-P


Poor, he says. You wound me, sir.


----------



## EricFai

Thanks John, sounds like you will be using it frequently in your shop. I was able to get some nice shaving during the testing, I also had to tweek a little, of course using the hammer.

Fitting for your quote.


----------



## Woodmaster1

The plane Dave got was quartersawn sycamore with hard maple interior with a recycled block plane blade and the chisel plane is a hard maple body with a curly maple cap. Dave I am going out to the shop right now to take pictures of my planes I received. Didn't know the swap items were being revealed. I was at my grandson's graduation party all day. I received my awesome planes from Dave. A smoothing plane and a spokeshave I always wanted to make a spokeshave and the smoother gave me an idea on what to do with a bucket of plane parts.


----------



## EricFai

Nathan, thanks for the comments, going into this I was not sure. Through the course of the swap, I have learned a bit more. Hope to venture into other types of planes.


----------



## DavePolaschek

No hurry, Woodmaster. I'm probably not going to write up my project post until tomorrow. And there are a few others yet to come.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Wow! Is that wedge laminated?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Mornin. Yeah, I made the wedge from layers of 1/8" bubinga and 1/16" ash veneer.

I'll write up the project after I get some caffeine in me.


----------



## Lazyman

I really need to get a closer look at that one Dave. Looking forward to the write up.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Just finished writing up the project for the Low-angle bevel-up infilled Stanley Global #3 and I'll do the projects for the spokeshave bonus and the box that held it all later on today.


----------



## HokieKen

Dave, you're fired! I told you not to reveal on the weekend ;-) Now, I come into the office on Sunday morning, which is also my wife's birthday, to get a few hours of work done and instead I have to look through all of the goodness?!

Seriously good stuff from everyone. No time to comment individually right now but I'll peruse the project posts when I get time and comment there


----------



## HokieKen

.


----------



## DavePolaschek

You can't fire me, Kenny! I quit! ;-P


----------



## HokieKen

In this case, "fired" means you're a tenured swap facilitator. THE tenured swap facilitator ;-)

I'll try to get a post up for the Beer Swap sometime this week. If anyone is itching to get a head start though, rules will be the same as always - pretty much anything goes, from any material, using any tools you like. As long as you can justify it being somehow beer-related, it's fair game. Look back through the old projects for ideas if you're new and thinking about it.

2017, 2018, 2019, 2020

And nobody replied with a preference when I asked before about ending early since we're starting early or just taking the extra time. Makes no difference to me either way. We can have a couple extra weeks for the Beer Swap or we can cut it off mid-August and have a couple extra weeks for the Fall Swap. If nobody replies with a preference, I'll keep it as usual with the ship date the week before Labor Day and the reveals right after Labor Day.

I'll post a link in this thread when I get the new thread up so nobody misses it.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Tenured, huh.

Either way sounds like a plan for the beer swap. But as I'm still likely to sit it out, I probably have as much voice in that as you did on the reveal day of this swap. ;-)

I cut boards to length for all the rest of the bookcases I need to build, and my jury duty starts on July 26, so I'm hoping I can have the last of the bookcases built by then. I wonder if they'll let me bring a knife and a block of wood to carve a birb while I'm waiting to be called or dismissed. Seems unlikely.


----------



## HokieKen

In my experience, they're really accommodating when you bring a knife to the courthouse Dave. I'd just give it a shot.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Yeah, that's what I figured, bud. Plus I just got a letter telling me to dress in layers, because the courthouse isn't air conditioned. What color cape do you recommend? I believe the prairie dog sporran will be the innermost layer…


----------



## drsurfrat

I don't think my recipient MakerofSawdust checks in very often, so I posted my project.


----------



## duckmilk

> I wonder if they'll let me bring a knife and a block of wood to carve a birb while I'm waiting to be called or dismissed.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


It may get you out of jury duty permanently.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> I wonder if they'll let me bring a knife and a block of wood to carve a birb while I'm waiting to be called or dismissed.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek
> 
> It may get you out of jury duty permanently.
> 
> - duckmilk


But probably the same time in court.


----------



## duckmilk

Nice plane Dave. Did you use saw nuts to attach the tote and knob?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thanks, Duck. I made the nuts from 5/8" brass stock. Threaded it to 10-32 and narrowed the factory 12-32 bolt down to 10-32 on the top end.


----------



## Keebler1

Kenny I would like the extra time for beer swap but not necessary. It would give me some extra time to get resin ordered for my idea


----------



## DevinT

Bonus item from makerofsawdust. Changer plane with a level in it.


----------



## EricFai

We have seen a mixture of planes so far, and I like it, gives a person some ideas.

I wonder if anyone has done a Router plane or a Japanese style plane? If my count is correct there are still a few more reveals remaining.


----------



## JohnMcClure

My project is up.

I think I commented on all the ones posted so far, apologies if I missed any. Really nice work all around.


----------



## DavePolaschek

One left, as far as I can tell. I've been linking the projects up top as they come in. But MakerOfSawdust has only posted to the thread a couple times, so I'm not sure if I should expect to hear from him or not.

Thanks for posting, John!


----------



## DevinT

Note, on my last comment, changer = chamfer (auto correct got me)


----------



## duckmilk

Haha, that's why I don't use auto correct, it doesn't understand me.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Autocorrupt changes the correct word on me all the time. I find I end up adding things to the dictionary a lot to stop it from doing that.


----------



## Woodmaster1

> In this case, "fired" means you re a tenured swap facilitator. THE tenured swap facilitator ;-)
> 
> I ll try to get a post up for the Beer Swap sometime this week. If anyone is itching to get a head start though, rules will be the same as always - pretty much anything goes, from any material, using any tools you like. As long as you can justify it being somehow beer-related, it s fair game. Look back through the old projects for ideas if you re new and thinking about it.
> 
> 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020
> 
> And nobody replied with a preference when I asked before about ending early since we re starting early or just taking the extra time. Makes no difference to me either way. We can have a couple extra weeks for the Beer Swap or we can cut it off mid-August and have a couple extra weeks for the Fall Swap. If nobody replies with a preference, I ll keep it as usual with the ship date the week before Labor Day and the reveals right after Labor Day.
> 
> I ll post a link in this thread when I get the new thread up so nobody misses it.
> 
> - HokieKen


When your tenured it means they can't fire you. I relied on that for 37 of my 40 years of teaching. (lol)


----------



## duckmilk

I never understood what tenured meant before, thanks WM. I've been self employed since '93, and though I have thought about it, I've never fired myself ;-P


----------



## EarlS

Kenny - extra time for the beer swap would be good. SWMBO asked me if I would build a shadow box for her sister's military memorabilia. She just retired from the National Guard, 23 years - full time, including a couple of stints as a mortician's assistant in Afghanistan when things were really nasty over there. I said yes, before she finished telling me. I now have a work bench and cabinet, clocks, and a shadow box, plus beer swap stuff to build.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I was self-employed from 1996-2006, and the boss I had those years was the worst one I ever had. Wouldn't fire me, even when I puked on his shoes, though.


----------



## drsurfrat

After all this time I finally figured out what a buddy is. It notifies of new stuff from that person. 
Does it do anything else?


----------



## DavePolaschek

That's about it, Mike. It does email the person you've buddied, so I guess you could kinda spam someone by adding them as a removing them, then re-adding, etc.


----------



## Lazyman

I wish that adding as a buddy would also make them show up on your pulse page. I don't check email everyday but I do check the pulse page.


----------



## doubleG469

Wow lady and gentlemen, just wow. Great showing. Dave after what you sent, you can go ahead and just put a flame to my block of wood I sent. Wow.

Everyone like always exceptional effort!

I really wished I could have figured out mine in time to have finished it. Procrastination and work bit me in the butt.

Maybe next time.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thanks, Gary. I've got it taking shavings, and I'll get it fully functional one of these days. I'll definitely let you know when it's finished.


----------



## GrantA

All the planes look great! Excellent work here guys and gal  all but one of us :-/

Nathan I definitely did *not* dig John's plane out of the box because then I wouldn't want to do what I did haha

I've got so many squirrels going on I don't know which way is which. I just got this squirrel delivered to the shop all the way from AZ! Figured y'all might like to see it. I'll get back to work now!


----------



## EarlS

Does that table go with Kenny's special man cave chair?


----------



## bigblockyeti

^ That's awesome and probably only cost you $43 to ship it all the way to GA.


----------



## GrantA

I wish yeti, no way I was gonna let an ltl carrier break it. They can tear up railroad tracks with rubber mallets ya know
Earl called it a table d'oh 
Nah I think it's too fancy for Kenny's cave
I have found it in an 1898 S.A. Woods catalog but not after that. It may be that old

Devin, now that you've flattened a jointer plane for practice how about the 20" tables for this beast?


----------



## DevinT

It's 4" smaller than the Stanley, so why not! As long as it's not banana shaped, should take less than 3 weeks (that Stanley was in really bad shape).


----------



## bigblockyeti

I think I could make a business out of shipping stuff LTL with heavy insurance knowing it was going to be forked, dropped or turned over then cashing out the insurance. After all it's not fraud if they really do break it, which they will.


----------



## drsurfrat

It's almost worth driving to GA just to see that thing in your driveway. Wow.


----------



## GrantA

Smaller than the Stanley?


----------



## doubleG469

have i missed the 2021 beer swap page? Don't know if I am joining yet but surely there will be shananigans to follow.


----------



## HokieKen

> have i missed the 2021 beer swap page? Don t know if I am joining yet but surely there will be shananigans to follow.
> 
> - doubleG469


Nope, I was hoping to get it posted today but been busy. Stupid job. Hopefully tomorrow


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Stupid job.


Aren't they all? If they weren't, they wouldn't have to give you money so you would show up, amirite?

Thanks for a swell swap, kids! I'm impressed with the planes we shipped around, and there's still a few types that we haven't seen represented, so I'll probably eventually run another plane swap if nobody else does. Feel free to keep using this thread until Kenny gets around to posting the beer swap thread, but I'm calling this one *done.* Great work, all!


----------



## DevinT

> Smaller than the Stanley?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - GrantA


Yes, that is correct. You stated that the plates were 20". The Stanley's sole is 24" in length.


----------



## Lazyman

Great job wrangling the swappers, Dave.


----------



## GrantA

20 *wide* Devin haha did you see the jointer frame I posted above?


----------



## DevinT

I did, but I didn't want to make any assumptions. Yeah, that would take a lifetime to flatten if I did it with granite and sandpaper.

Hypothetical situation:

Spouse: Dear, are you coming to bed?
Me: No, I have to sand the jointer.
(1 year late)
Spouse: You've been sanding for a year straight, want to take a break and come to your son's first birthday party?
Me: Almost have 10% of the jointer flattened. Can't stop now!
(18 years goes by)
Spouse: You've missed a lot, maybe it's time to take a break. Your son is graduating high school.
Me: I'm at 90% flat, almost there!
(5 years later)
Son: I'm getting married.
Me: Can I bring the jointer?


----------



## duckmilk

> - GrantA





> I have found it in an 1898 S.A. Woods catalog but not after that. It may be that old
> 
> - GrantA


Wow, that's almost as old as your forklift!


----------



## GrantA

Hey don't be hating on the $2500 forklift! She's worth every penny. 1980s so still maybe 80 yrs younger than the jointer ;-p


----------



## DevinT

I've driven fork lifts like that.


----------



## duckmilk

> Hey don t be hating on the $2500 forklift! She s worth every penny. 1980s so still maybe 80 yrs younger than the jointer ;-p
> 
> - GrantA


I *don't* hate it, I wish I had one. But don't send it to me, please;-) What I really wish I had was a skid loader with multiple attachments and tracks instead of wheels.


----------



## HokieKen

Alright, the Beer Swap thread is posted. Converge!


----------



## mikeacg

Wow! Great swap! After seeing all the wonderful planes I really glad I decided to sit this one out… I would have hated to join and then embarrass myself by dropping out (like some wimps…). 
I'm not sure which hurt worse: Spending most of a week in the hospital or sitting and reading all 2197 posts to this swap… (My butt still hurts!)
I can't miss the beer swap - 'cuz I know Kenny will force me to play no matter what I say!!
Great job herding cats Dave!

Mike


----------



## DevinT

Wow, I'm impressed you read all our entire scree. Glad we could provide entertainment while you sat in the hospital.


----------



## EricFai

Lady and Gents, this has been a great time and there are some wonderful folks that participated in this swap. There has been some wonderful planes here to. I think I got the best one, there was time and thought that really paid off.

And I got 2200 post. Yea. And I would have to say the best in show delivered to me.


----------



## DevinT

^_^ and I'm super happy that it won't be sitting on a shelf. It gives me a great sense of pride knowing I can tell folks that my plane went to a boat maker needing it for sash aprons


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thanks again folks! It was a good one.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Oh, and the first post has links to all of the projects and to Devin's reveal of the plane from MakerOfSawdust. I didn't check to see if they were tagged, but I figured this way gives everyone a way to see the projects down the road.


----------



## mikeacg

> Wow, I m impressed you read all our entire scree. Glad we could provide entertainment while you sat in the hospital.
> - DevinT


Devin,

I was in quarantine for C Diff and had no access to the net while I was 'incarcerated'... I read all these after I got home! Pretty sure I need a more comfortable chair at my computer desk!

Mike


----------



## DevinT

The saga with Lee Valley continues. The plane kit I ordered in April is *now* scheduled to ship in September.

Thank God Dave P sent me his for the swap or Eric (my recipient) and I would have been completely out of luck.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Oh geez. Sorry I recommended Lee Valley as a possible source. Not sure what went so horribly wrong with their supply chain, but that's pretty miserable.


----------



## DevinT

Oh, no, it wasn't your recommendation that pushed me to Lee Valley. Remember, I have a No 4 Veritas smoothing plane and I am obsessed with adjusters. If you had not offered me your spare kit, I would probably have had to drop out of the swap.


----------



## mikeacg

Devin,

September of 2021?

Mike


----------



## DevinT

Time will tell. Hey, at least they aren't as bad as West Elm… yet. Got a set of curtain rods I ordered ~12 months ago that still haven't shipped from West Elm. They are practically the WORST but they do have some good designs that are worth waiting for.


----------



## EricFai

Devin, I'm happy you were able to get the parts. Sorry to hear that shipments are still running behind. At some point they will catch up and have the stocked shelves.

My table saw gave out a few weeks before I got started, and lead time for a new one was 4-6 months. So I found an estate sale and picked up a used one. It's older than me but solid and I got a good price to boot


----------



## GR8HUNTER

you did a very GR8 JOB on this swap its very nice how you put all projects by their name :<)))))))


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thanks, Devin. Glad I could dig into my horde of parts to help you make your spiffy plane.

Thanks, Tony! Seemed like a pretty easy thing to do, and easier than badgering everyone to tag their project. Maybe future swap-hosts will pick up on the idea.


----------



## DevinT

Was looking at the latest Woodcraft catalog to hit my mailbox and saw something interesting.

Mosaic pins for knife making. Examples:









































































and I got to thinking that these might make nice cross pins for hand planes.

Thoughts?


----------



## EricFai

Those would look cool


----------



## donwilwol

They may not be stiff enough for cross pins. They're desiged for shear strength in short lengths. And I imagine they were about 1/8" or so.


----------



## DevinT

You can get them in 1/4"

Some appear resin filled while others are not.


----------



## Keebler1

Devin wonder if you could mix your own epoxy resin and fill them once they are epoxied in before sanding flush and shaping the scales so you could sand the excess resin away?


----------



## HokieKen

> They may not be stiff enough for cross pins. They re desiged for shear strength in short lengths. And I imagine they were about 1/8" or so.
> 
> - Don W


+1 They're very thin metal tubes filled with epoxy and small metal shapes. They make really cool knife pins but they would fold like a cheap suit if you tried to put the pressure from a lever cap on them. Doesn't mean you couldn't make some that would handle the load though! Just find some tube that has a thicker wall and some smaller shapes and get some epoxy and roll your own


----------



## DevinT

OR maybe I just use a brass rod and cap it off with a slice of one of these mosaic pins (resin filled, of course, so you can't see the solid brass pin behind it).

Unfortunately that's a bit beyond my capabilities without a band saw to cut a slice of mosaic pin.


----------



## Keebler1

Devin if you havent had your last baby shower yet you could tell everyone to get the baby a bandsaw instead of toys and clothes


----------



## HokieKen

Hacksaw or Dremel tool will do ya.


----------



## DevinT

I doubt a hacksaw could make a clean sliver of a slice


----------



## DavePolaschek

As Kenny said, most of the pre-made mosaic pins would fold like a cheap suit if you tried to use them as a cross-pin in a plane.



> Unfortunately that's a bit beyond my capabilities without a band saw to cut a slice of mosaic pin.


Cut to 1/4" or so with a hacksaw, then glue them to the end of a brass (or blued steel?) rod, then sand down to your desired thickness. I can take reasonably square 1/4" slices with my hacksaw pretty reliably. Just don't use the cheap hardware store hacksaw because the blade isn't under enough tension to not twist.


----------



## MikeB_UK

32 tpi blade, cut it slightly over-thick, sand it to the final size


----------



## DevinT

How to unglue after sanding to desired thickness?


----------



## DevinT

Maybe the way to go to create a slice without a band saw is to cut larger than desired with hacksaw, use CA glue to glue to a wooden dowel, sand to thickness with bench sander, cut off the dowel, sand off the wood and CA glue?


----------



## MikeB_UK

What were you planning on gluing it to?
Edit - a dowel  - may as well just epoxy it to the end of your brass rod and you're done.

Either just sand it down by using a (thin) stop, use your finger to rub it on an unside down sanding block, or fit it as a cap and file/sand it in place.


----------



## donwilwol

The mosaic pins are fairly easy to make, so you could make them out of something heavy enough for a cross bar. I've got a blog on how I made mine if anyone is interested


----------



## DavePolaschek

> How to unglue after sanding to desired thickness?


Why not glue it to the pin it's going to be the end/show-face of? No need to unglue at all, then. And you can fine tune the finished length on the sander.

The main trick in sawing straight is to use the jaws of my vise as a guide. Stick the rod into grooved vise jaws (made from a tubafor), and run the blade of the hacksaw flat along the side of the vise.


----------



## DevinT

You're absolutely right (Mike and Dave). I should have thought of that (epoxy it to the final piece and let it be, then sand it). Duh!

I need to get a better hacksaw. The one I have now is 20 years old, is the kind that has the square rod and winged screw, and takes 2 hours to cut through 1/4" brass rod.

Thanks for tip on cutting straight. No workbench or vise yet, so I've just been clamping it to my work table so it hangs over the edge and using the edge of the table as a saw guide.

I'll get a new hacksaw when I am allowed to spend again.

I have also been planning on getting a kerfing plane and Roubo frame saw from Blackburn Tools to make resaws easier.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> I'll get a new hacksaw when I am allowed to spend again.


Took me less than an hour to make my hacksaw, though I did have the brass ends to hold the small pinned blade already. For the larger blades with holes, I'm pretty sure I could make a pair of ends from bolts in an afternoon.

https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/419655

The wooden bits are about an hour though. And just about any wood will be strong enough for a bowsaw-style hacksaw.


----------



## DavePolaschek

A kerfing plane can be made from a cheap Great Neck Saw on Amazon. Actually, you could make 3 from a single saw. Just need a cutoff wheel to chop the saw plate into pieces. (Or a cold chisel, a big hammer, and no fear)

If you're interested in making your own tools, or if you struggled with making a plane in this swap, John Wilson's Making Wood Tools is the book that'll set you up. A hundred pages on making over a dozen different kinds of planes. *Strongly Recommended*.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> I need to get a better hacksaw. The one I have now is 20 years old, is the kind that has the square rod and winged screw, and takes 2 hours to cut through 1/4" brass rod.


If it takes 2 hours you need a new blade 
If the blade has any flex go for very light pressure and you should be OK.
Thinking about it you use a ryobi, so turn the hacksaw blade round to use it on the pull stoke, should make it a bit easier to keep it straight if the frame isn't that well tensioned.

But, frankly, make a frame saw, will work better than any hacksaw frame (possibly short of knew concepts, not tried them) and you can make one in a short time. Use a straight grained wood for the arms.


> I have also been planning on getting a kerfing plane and Roubo frame saw from Blackburn Tools to make resaws easier.
> 
> - DevinT


Get a cheap panel saw and practice, I used to want a kerfing saw but am going off the idea the more I resaw.

In the few (OK, 6, just looked it up) years I've been doing this (I started as hand tools only with no experience at all, so it's been a slow grind  I've found that practice of a technique is generally a better idea than buying a custom tool. I still want a kerfing saw and roubo frame saw, but I want to build them myself now.

If you plan on making any money then everything I do is completely wrong so ignore all of it - it's very much a hobby (money goes in) intead of a business (money comes out) for me.


----------



## DevinT

Well, Blackburn won't sell you a Kerfing plane or Roubo frame saw. They will sell you the kit and you have to bring the wood.


----------



## DevinT

In fact, I don't know anyone that sells a Kerfing plane or Roubo frame saw fully assembled.


----------



## DevinT

I'd like opinions on an idea I have. I thought to myself:

A Kerfing plane doesn't look like it would be all that stable. What if I made it with a huge fence?

What if that fence was bigger than the piece I needed to kerf?

What if it wasn't a Kerfing plane at all but a Kerfing board? Like a shooting board but with an adjustable height saw blade.

Put stock face down on Kerfing board. Shoot the board against the stationary saw blade.

Having trouble conceptualizing the adjuster. Not sure if it would practical considering the space it would take up on the shelf compared to a Kerfing plane. So maybe the stability of said plane is acceptable, though I think a Kerfing board would produce better results.


----------



## DavePolaschek

A kerfing plane doesn't need to be all that stable, especially after the first pass or two. Similar to a grooving plane or a combo plane, it rides in the groove / kerf it's just cut, and that stabilizes it. Of course it also means that if you're off by a little bit, that will get multiplied, which is why I cut kerfs on both sides of the board, and then saw from the end, connecting the two kerfs. Can do that with a panel saw and not have too much wobble, but I've found I can't do it reliably with pull saws. It's probably some moral failing on my part.

Your "kerfing board" is more or less like using a table saw to cut kerfs for resawing, which will work too. I also use a cordless circular saw to cut kerfs for resawing if I'm not in the mood to work by hand. Turn it on its side if you'd like.

But the main goal, at least as I find it, is just to get a kerf to follow with the big saw I'm going to be resawing with. Fairly shallow kerfs are enough if you're connecting two of them.


----------



## DevinT

I bet the Joint Maker Pro could make a mean Kerfing machine


----------



## DavePolaschek

Nope. It can't cut boards the long way very well. It's a lot more oriented to cross cutting than ripping.


----------



## DevinT

I am half way through converting the video from the plane swap, composing a time lapse of the entire 3 month long process of building my plane


----------



## DevinT

The building of my swap plane:


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thanks for posting it, Devin! Kinda crazy!


----------



## GR8HUNTER

nice video Devin you surely worked hard on that resaw :<)))))))))


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## DevinT

Next time I will use the rip teeth instead of cross-cut (d'oh!)


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## KelleyCrafts

Definitely a cool time lapse. I would suggest shooting the video in horizontal mode in the future, would suit YouTube better IMO.

Great job otherwise.


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## DevinT

The videos are vertical are such because I needed to go vertical to capture height. Not all of the videos are vertical. Within the first 10s the first video is in-fact horizontal. Of the first 5 videos, 2 of them are horizontal. The entire video is not vertical.


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## KelleyCrafts

Sweet, your video, your choice. Take care.


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## mikeacg

The swap that keeps on giving! Great effort on your plane Devin and the follow-up was very informative! I hope you didn't burn yourself out on your first swap… They are all a lot of fun!
I hate missing one but my schedule this fall just didn't leave me much choice! I'm going to try a plane sooner or later - but first I need to start using the ones I have so I understand them better…

Mike


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## DevinT

> Sweet, your video, your choice. Take care.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


My shop is 48 square feet. Choice had little to do with the matter.


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## DevinT

mikeacg, thanks!

I didn't get burned out. Just welcomed our first child into the World, so that is consuming a lot of time right now. Will make more planes soon. It was my first swap and it was a load of fun. The video helps me relive the effort when I cannot get into the shop, and also lets me know what areas I need to practice to improve my technique.


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## DevinT

Lee Valley just charged me for the plane kit I ordered in March for this swap! Looks like I may expect it to arrive soon[-ish]!


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## DavePolaschek

Were you going to forward that one on to me, or just shoot me a check for the one I sent you? I need to ponder a replacement one of these days…


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## DevinT

I'd like to build another plane, so i will send you the money for the one you sent me. Thanks for being patient. If they have shipped mine, then there is a good chance that availability has returned.


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## DavePolaschek

Okie-dokie. Thanks for letting me know,


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