# Spalters Inc.



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

*pictures of an early colonization by Chlorociboria aeruginascens*

Hey guys,

Having recently decided that I couldn't continue refering to the blue-green stained wood as "stained by some mysterious fungi", I dug out everything I could find on Google and ended up with a boatload of pictures and, most importantly, data and contacts.

So I found out that Fine WoodWorking contributor S.Robinson actually works in the bio research field and haz specialized in the fungi that spalt or stain wood.

Wait, did I just write "haz"? Em, I think I gotta quit LOLcats >cough<

Anyway, I was all like "OMG", grabbed all the info that I could, left my brain cells digest all that and spit out some conclusions and questions that need to be answered, along with questions I posted to Dr Spalting (great and appropriate nickname BTW).

So here comes the personal experience part that lead to the aforementioned questions: last december, during a spalted-wood hunt in the woods of my Southern France village, my sister and I stumbled upon several nice pieces of green-stained wood. Among them was an almost entirely unsuspected one: a beech trunk from a stump near which I had found my latest specimen to date last summer. One of the smallest trunks (~8 cm Ø) was calling me like "shake me baby" and I gave it a go. The highest part fell down, but it had nothing interesting. So I was left with around 4 meters of that trunk, and decided to look more closely into it (alas I didn't think about merely removing the bark - now I know). I broke it down to its lowest part, then into several pieces, and ran into a green stained zone. Ha, that's what I'm talking about! Now the pictures before going any further:




























(there was obviously a previous colonizer in that zone of the wood, hence the black lines that herder the stain from Ca)

Said green stained zone was small, as you can see I managed to get two small chunks from the two trunk sections. Something in the 10 cm neighborhood for its length (along the trunk) and not more than 2 cm into the wood and 3 in width.

There are several things that I noticed with my finds of that day: the stain from Chlorociboria aeruginascens (I'll call it C.a. from now on) started right under the bark, far away from the easiest ways to enter. The big stained trunk my sister found a few minutes later not far from there also had its Ca-stained zone around the center of the trunk, though it was laying on the ground under dead leaves, and infested by many other fungi (and even ants), and was completely wet and with a rather hard vinegar smell (from the decaying processes). Still, the Ca had entered it at around the same distance from the stump than the previous small find.

So, why a blog series on that matter? Well, when I get to my village next time, I will go back to that very stump and check more precisely the remaining trunks, peel off the bark of those that are blatantly dead, look for green, and if present, take a few measurements and most importantly bring the whole trunk back home (they're not that much bigger than the whole boxwood trunks I stick into mum's Corsa anyway) and cut evenly-spaced and numbered slices to check for other colonizations.

Dr Robinson and her teammates found out during their research that Ca is somewhat of a picky fungus that seems rather difficult to tame, if not impossible, in the lab. My idea is to let Mother Nature do it herself but with a slight help by inoculating the fungus in selected trees at what seems to be the optimal position height-wise, and see what happens next.


----------



## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *pictures of an early colonization by Chlorociboria aeruginascens*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


interressting blog
thank´s for sharring 

take care
Dennis


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *pictures of an early colonization by Chlorociboria aeruginascens*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Hi Thomas,
Beautiful the little green piece.
I see the forest with new eyes now.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## Schwieb (Dec 3, 2008)

Sodabowski said:


> *pictures of an early colonization by Chlorociboria aeruginascens*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Thomas, I have never seen fungal coloration other than the dark brown almost black streaks that we commonly see. Since this is a chlorophyl based organism it would seem to be found where light could get to it to help "power" the fungus. Is the Ca more toxic than the regular fungus as far as working with the wood? Cool that you are taking the time to learn about this and the process that goes with it.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *pictures of an early colonization by Chlorociboria aeruginascens*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


@ Ken: Chlorociboria, despite its name, doesn't produce any chlorophyl  it's a very different pigment, called xylindein. And it's absolutely not toxic. Check out Dr Spalting's post on FWW on the matter of the relative dangers of spalting fungi vs wood dust


----------



## tdv (Dec 29, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *pictures of an early colonization by Chlorociboria aeruginascens*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


The colours are beautiful Thomas or is it something I'm smoking? (quick whammy bar dive bomb)
Best
Trevor


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *pictures of an early colonization by Chlorociboria aeruginascens*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


@ Trevor: baby milk powder isn't suitable for grown-ups


----------



## tdv (Dec 29, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *pictures of an early colonization by Chlorociboria aeruginascens*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Now you tell me??


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *pictures of an early colonization by Chlorociboria aeruginascens*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...



sends a pack o'beer to Trevor *
That's a man's milk crate


----------



## JoeyG (Mar 19, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *pictures of an early colonization by Chlorociboria aeruginascens*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


I found the blog, now to find time to read it.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *pictures of an early colonization by Chlorociboria aeruginascens*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

*hunting for Chlorociboria sp, take two: WIN.*

Hey guys,

So basically I had the chance to get back to my southern village a few days ago. Having some fine time to spend while my elbow was healing from an unfortunate accident at work, the first thing I did was to run into the woods to get to the previous Ca find spot. I can't tell you how bad that thing was haunting me.

Well, I didn't get to measure things as I wanted to (next time!), and instead I merely kicked down all the trunks from a dead stump (not sure it's the right word - correct me if needed) and peeling them right there, which was quite fun by the way.

As opposed to what I first thought, the stain from Chlorociboria doesn't get from the very beginning into the bark, but still runs into the wood. It happens that the trace left by Ca in its early colonization stage's entry point is a very dark brownish-green, so much that in fact you have to pay extra attention to find it. The weather wasn't good enough for me for a close inspection on site, so I basically broke everything down into manageable sized pieces, peeled everything, and brought the good spalted stuff home. Then all of the sudden, while breaking down one of the trunks, *tadaaa*, the treasure showed up. And of course the breaking happened right in the middle of the Ca-stained zone. Oh, well. Here are a few shots of the portion of interest I'm talking about:



















I outlined the tell-tale spots here for added clarity. As can be seen, there's a dark spot in the brown zone, right under where the bark was. A slight farther towards the top of the tree, there was a visibly green portion. The full resolution picture is here , without the red lines, so you can look more precisely at it and see what to look after when hunting for Ca in the woods.

I only kept the interesting part of that piece of wood, because the stain isn't big or dark enough to use it for cutting veneer. I can still carve something out of it, as with the chunk from the previous find (you'll get a chance to see the finished piece when I'll have decided on what its final shape has to be, the color itself is incredible).

As with my previous "standing find", the Ca stained zone was relatively high above the ground, in this case it was a bit less than a meter, but I didn't bother to bring my tape measure. That's not rocket science after all, but as a rule of thumb it seems that Ca attacks at belly height, at least in my area of "research".

Anyway, *lesson learned #1*: Ca infestation happens early and while the tree is still standing, visibly around 1 meter above the ground, when a previous colonization from a fungus TBD has occurred.

The interesting thing about this very piece of wood, as for the previous early find, is that it's deeply spalted, but the wood fibers have NOT been damaged: it's still very hard and has no insect attacks. So far so good. It also seems that the very first colonizer ate all the first layer of wood under the bark, as hinted by the slight depression into which the initial Ca colonization shows up.

*Lesson learned #2:* peel off all the bark from the trunk before attempting any sawing, or you could end up sawing or breaking right into the good stuff as I did.

I applied that to the trunks I kicked next, peeling off the bark (with my Swiss Army knife when needed), and looking for green. Bingo for those that were wet enough, but not too wet. Next step will be to check for approximate moisture content, but as a rule of thumb you want them not too wet and not too dry. Covered with fresh moss is okay, but I found out that oak is rather hard to penetrate by Ca, even if I brought back home three 30 inch long pieces with visible green stain. I just find that birch or beech are far easier to find stained and to work with, once dry and stabilized if need be.

Oh, and of course, I went back to the laying trunk where my sister had found the biggest chunk to date, and BINGO again, the upper part of that very piece had developed the same deep green stain. And of course that new piece is home with me here, but this time I'm leaving it dry slowly - the previous block split like crazy, but that was quite expected. A good idea is to secure a place in the area of the find and erect a little platform with some kind of roof to put the finds into and leave them to dry very slowly in the exact same conditions where they started to decay. Having them around in the shop is more of an issue than anything else: I've had to set up a full-time blower next to my spalted wood pile to get the moisture out of them and prevent molds from developping and all that kind of stuff. Unless you have a kiln, that is. Which is among my projects for next summer, along with a homemade bandsaw mill. But I disgress.

Finding Ca stained wood is very exciting, at least to me, but along with it is also very fine material that also deserves to be kept: while I scored around 20 kilos of Ca-stained wood this time (among which a full 2 METER long trunk, green from top to bottom - YIKES), mind you that I brought home around 200 kilos of spalted lumber. Cut them down into ~ 50 cm (20") sections with the chainsaw once home, cleaned up the cuts with the bandsaw, opened them up after carefully choosing an orientation regarding the end-grain spalting figure, and ended up with a bunch of half-rounds that will live as very nice box tops or parts. Here is one of these that I also brought to Paris, and one that I dried directly and slabbed to make a box for my gal, along with what I'm all about with this Ca bizness: one of the finest slabs that I have, which is to be used for inlay on a guitar fretboard I already talked a bit about:



















I also brought home fresh infested bark that I kept dry during the whole time there, but my attemps at putting it into culture have suffereed from both the time between getting it and my lack of good equipment. Dr Spalting would be yelling at me if she saw my crappy culture boxes ^^'

Something maybe of interest on that matter: a yellow mycelium has very quickly developed on my Ca-infested bark chunks, left wet and isolated from molds. I found yellow stain quite often along with rather early Ca-stain, so maybe this is a case of collaboration between two fungi, which need one another to develop. And I say *maybe*, I'm no pro on that matter. Will have to check that out with the fungi specialists at my university.

And as promised, I also brought back home sawdust from my first veneerings of Ca, and will use it to isolate the xylindein pigment and measure its destroying temperature point. As I already pointed out several times, Ca-stained wood must be sanded down carefully, too much heat will kill the pigment as I found out when sawing with a dull bandsaw blade which lead into the discoloration of the cutting zone. Will have that sorted out ASAP, when I'll get a chance to find a lab rat^H^H^H chemist willing to make some measures with me at the university.

Comments, questions, cursings and related ranting are welcome and expected


----------



## woodspark (May 8, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *hunting for Chlorociboria sp, take two: WIN.*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


It all sounds very clever and terribly scientific, way beyond a mere woodworker like me. BUT Man that spalting is beautiful! And those colors! Wowsters! Isn't wood and nature just incredible!


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *hunting for Chlorociboria sp, take two: WIN.*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Hi Thomas or shall I say Mr. Fungis,
It is so wonderful to hear about your travel into this world, I admire your efford.
Yes the day you will grow this wonderful blue, that will be amazing.
The piece you found with the clear lines are amazing, I have one Div send me, that I save for a special purpose since it looks like a beautiful japanese painting to me.
Best thoughts, and thank you for the update,
Mads


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *hunting for Chlorociboria sp, take two: WIN.*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Ohh yes and thank you for the link, I will look into this.
;-)


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *hunting for Chlorociboria sp, take two: WIN.*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Hey Mads 
Yeah right, these definately look like japanese paintings more often than not. I quite don't think I will be the first to tame Chlorociboria, I'm definately no expert on that field, but as long as I can do my best to nail down some of the variables, sounds good to me.
BTW I brought back some stuff for you again 
Cheers!


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

*First culture attempts update, and eye candy.*

Hey guys,

Just for a quick update. The cultures I attempted last time did actually work to some degree. Something grew inside the agar mix 
No stain from the Ca culture yet and I don't really expect any to happen. I also grew the accompanying yellow fungus, which actually develops rather agressively into the culture medium. Certainly a big white rot fungus there, Fomes Fomentarius probably, knowing that it was on the tree I took the infested bark from.

For the next mushy hunting season I will have the appropriate equipment to grow them in decent laboratory conditions and see what happens.

Meanwhile, I'll inoculate the culture in a live tree and let it all happen for a year or so before cutting it down and checking what happened. My culture boxes (chinese sauce containers actually) are, well, unworthy of being shown, so sorry but no pictures until I get myself some decent-looking petri boxes 

As a "forgive me" for that lack of a decent culture shot, here is what has become of this piece I had showed you in the first post of this series:










And after some basic sanding, as I haven't already decided which of the possible designs I figured out to carve it into, alongside its future base (which is the leftover portion from the lid of the sumac bandsaw box I made last summer for mom):










Oh, and the base is finished in BLO and blonde dewaxed shellac.

More to come soon!

Cheers!


----------



## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *First culture attempts update, and eye candy.*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


That is nice.
The possibilities are endless.

jamie


----------



## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *First culture attempts update, and eye candy.*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


looks interresting 
looking forward to the next one

Dennis


----------



## tdv (Dec 29, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *First culture attempts update, and eye candy.*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Thomas I think you're great man most wood workers looks for interesting dyes & stains you're scientific brain says how many colours can I GROW in my timber I like it but Im too old to wait that long so I guess I just have to stick to the dyes & admire your wood from afar ) (by the way never under estimate the importance of learning your modes it adds colour to your music ask Ritchie Blackmore) It's a bit like fungus in wood but musical lol
Best to you
Trevor


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *First culture attempts update, and eye candy.*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


@Trevor: mind you, the leaves for the vine I'm inlaying in the fretboard of the guitar for my gf will be made with such naturally-stained wood  
And yes, I agree, learning all the modes in music is mandatory


----------



## jockmike2 (Oct 10, 2006)

Sodabowski said:


> *First culture attempts update, and eye candy.*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Amazing!


----------



## Schwieb (Dec 3, 2008)

Sodabowski said:


> *First culture attempts update, and eye candy.*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Hi Thomas, This is quite interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing that guitar fretboard. You have me looking more carefully at dead trees to see what's there. I'm trying to figure out how your culture boxes work. Is this a holding place for species of fungi you have identified and will use to innoculate other wood?


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *First culture attempts update, and eye candy.*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Hi there Thomas,
Looking good, glad to see your hunting for fungis gave results.
I have one interesting question to ask, how is the light resistant in these colors, try to leave some in your windowplate and see if the color stay.
I look forward to see more on this wonderful travel in the woods you do.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *First culture attempts update, and eye candy.*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


@Ken: for the culture boxes, I'm building plans for a sterile box with a forced air circulation (with active-carbon filters and a fish tank pump) to keep the petri dishes away from molds and with permanent fresh air (fungi need air to live). Nothing really fancy, but it will be enough for my small scale, low ambition experiments. And of course it will be a project post here and a few blog issues too 

@ Mads: actually xylindein is ULTRA strong and even UV light doesn't affect it at all. Old cabinets from the 15th century with Ca-stained inlay parts have not faded at all, you can search the web and find them quite easily. My specimens are sun-dried for several days before going to the air-drying area in my workshop. No problem at all with light, but with heat that's a different matter (read: when sanding too hard irreversible discoloration occurs). I'll have the exact temperature measured once I get more time at the university, which should come rather soon now. I brought sawdust from my most saturated specimens to have that measured properly, but a dull bandsaw blad is already enough to kill the color of xylindein…


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *First culture attempts update, and eye candy.*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Amazing Thomas, I really admire your studys.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

*Second culture attempts*

So the admin of a french mycology website sent me several fresh pieces of Salix with lots of fruiting bodies of Chlorociboria Aeruginosa two days ago (he was also kind enough to test them for variety with his microscope, so this is an accurate naming) and I received them today, along with a little card with the nicest words written on it. *AND* I received my petri dishes at the very same time. Talk about timing!

So I immediately set myself into "bio geek mode" and prepared an agar culture medium, flamed my tweezers to sterilize them, and took care not to touch any inside part of the dishes nor blow towards them.

For the nutrients, having no malt on hand yet, I settled with maple syrup for a first test, to which I added a few drops of lemon juice to just acidify the medium a bit. Not having all my chemicals here doesn't help do these kind of things "cleanly" but it's still a cleaner attempt than the first one, and by the time I get to my southern village there will be plenty of Chlorociboria Aeruginascens in my forest claims, and I still have 20 twin-compartment and 18 tri-compartment petri dishes for the following cultures.

Searching through ebay was successful for finding premade agar malt medium, but the asking prices were insane, particularly on the postage fees. Well, next time. I'll be experimenting with several different nutrients anyway, all of vegetal origin: maple syrup this time, fructose next time, I'm thinking of agave syrup too (though it's a cactus, not quite the usual dish of Chlorociboria, might not work but you never know). The most certain thing is that I'll slay down a live beech tree this summer to pump out its sap and use it for the most accurate transparent culture medium I still can imagine for these tiny beasts (Dracula gone vegan, or something).

So for this second try, it's Canada, baby!










The contents of the parcel










Petri dish galore










Two dishes cooling down to room temp prior to inoculation with Chlorociboria Aeruginosa










First plate ready (I added an internal ID after the fact with a sharpie)










A close-up of the tiny beasts (2-3 mm diameter each, 1/8th")

I won't include a picture of the ascospores of this (which tells with enough evidence it's aeruginosa) as I don't own the copyright, but you can find it here.

Cheers mates!


----------



## SASmith (Mar 22, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second culture attempts*
> 
> So the admin of a french mycology website sent me several fresh pieces of Salix with lots of fruiting bodies of Chlorociboria Aeruginosa two days ago (he was also kind enough to test them for variety with his microscope, so this is an accurate naming) and I received them today, along with a little card with the nicest words written on it. *AND* I received my petri dishes at the very same time. Talk about timing!
> 
> ...


Hello Thomas
Now this is interesting.

Are you familiar with liquid culture of mycelium?
As for nutrients I have used sugar based ones, but I prefer a grain base.
To make it I clean the grain(usually wild bird seed without corn) by rinsing it well then l simmer it for 30 minutes or so. After it has simmered I strain the grain out of the water. Then add the "grain juice" to a quart jar and sterilize it in a pressure cooker. I have used straight "grain juice" and a "grain juice"/sugar mix also. 
If you are into mushroom cultivation you probably know all this. If not I would be glad to help if I can.

What fungi work best for spalting? 
I have considered trying to inoculate some small logs with multiple fungi to try and get some dark boundary lines. Maybe some day.
Thanks for sharing
Scott


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second culture attempts*
> 
> So the admin of a french mycology website sent me several fresh pieces of Salix with lots of fruiting bodies of Chlorociboria Aeruginosa two days ago (he was also kind enough to test them for variety with his microscope, so this is an accurate naming) and I received them today, along with a little card with the nicest words written on it. *AND* I received my petri dishes at the very same time. Talk about timing!
> 
> ...


Hi Scott,

Never tried the recipe you're talking about, sounds very interesting! 
Not sure it could apply to this very fungus, which is a second colonizer (a white rot has to have attacked the wood before it can develop into it), but I'd love to read more about that. What kind of fungi do you grow with that mix? If it's edibles then I'm absolutely interested, my parents want us to grow some at our countryside home.

As for spalting, I really recommend you the articles from Dr Spalting . She's one of the best references around, if not the best and most up-to-date on that regard. Consider a freshly cut log though, if your wood is already too dry the fungi won't eat it (they're picky, you know, way more than birds actually). Try Trametes Versicolor with Fomes Fomentarius to name the most agressive and easy to find ones, which produce zone lines in the matter of a few weeks. I haven't tried them yet as they were all dead when I got into the woods last time, and I was most of all obsessed with the delightfully nice Chlorociboria.
If I ever have a daughter, I will name her that.

(not quite actually! ^^ )


----------



## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second culture attempts*
> 
> So the admin of a french mycology website sent me several fresh pieces of Salix with lots of fruiting bodies of Chlorociboria Aeruginosa two days ago (he was also kind enough to test them for variety with his microscope, so this is an accurate naming) and I received them today, along with a little card with the nicest words written on it. *AND* I received my petri dishes at the very same time. Talk about timing!
> 
> ...


It took me a couple of reads but if you guys are growin mushrooms .. im in … but i thought the edibles grew in cow crap??

Ive always wondered what made things grow and youre making things grow inside of other things .. im spellbound here. Keep us posted.


----------



## llwynog (May 5, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second culture attempts*
> 
> So the admin of a french mycology website sent me several fresh pieces of Salix with lots of fruiting bodies of Chlorociboria Aeruginosa two days ago (he was also kind enough to test them for variety with his microscope, so this is an accurate naming) and I received them today, along with a little card with the nicest words written on it. *AND* I received my petri dishes at the very same time. Talk about timing!
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for the link to Dr Spalting. I had no idea you could inoculate wood to make your own spalted wood.
Interesting read, will keep this in mind.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second culture attempts*
> 
> So the admin of a french mycology website sent me several fresh pieces of Salix with lots of fruiting bodies of Chlorociboria Aeruginosa two days ago (he was also kind enough to test them for variety with his microscope, so this is an accurate naming) and I received them today, along with a little card with the nicest words written on it. *AND* I received my petri dishes at the very same time. Talk about timing!
> 
> ...


@Fabrice: si tu as une forêt pas trop loin de chez toi, y'a encore plus simple. Je ferai une vidéo cet été à ce sujet


----------



## Schwieb (Dec 3, 2008)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second culture attempts*
> 
> So the admin of a french mycology website sent me several fresh pieces of Salix with lots of fruiting bodies of Chlorociboria Aeruginosa two days ago (he was also kind enough to test them for variety with his microscope, so this is an accurate naming) and I received them today, along with a little card with the nicest words written on it. *AND* I received my petri dishes at the very same time. Talk about timing!
> 
> ...


Hi Thomas! I am enjoying following along on your project with great interest. Thank you for going to the trouble of posting this. The links were great. I used to subscribe to Fine Woodworking, but I found I hardly ever read it, just looked at the pictures, you know? So I had no idea of the resource in spalting, what an interesting site. I have very successfully made my own spalted wood, primarily local maple, that I mostly used for turning bowls. It was a little common sense and a lot of good fortune. I had nothing though with any color though. Great work!


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second culture attempts*
> 
> So the admin of a french mycology website sent me several fresh pieces of Salix with lots of fruiting bodies of Chlorociboria Aeruginosa two days ago (he was also kind enough to test them for variety with his microscope, so this is an accurate naming) and I received them today, along with a little card with the nicest words written on it. *AND* I received my petri dishes at the very same time. Talk about timing!
> 
> ...


Hey Ken, thanks for the nice words. Trametes Versicolor and Xylaria Polymorpha are the two easiest spalters for Maple and seem to produce incredible stuff. I haven't checked any maple stand yet (my main claims are full of boxwood, some crappy oaks, some rather old and fine oaks, and a few beeches and others). I'll try to find maples in my area to check out and see what else can be done with maple. Meanwhile, the blue suckers are in their new petri homes, we'll see how they do


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second culture attempts*
> 
> So the admin of a french mycology website sent me several fresh pieces of Salix with lots of fruiting bodies of Chlorociboria Aeruginosa two days ago (he was also kind enough to test them for variety with his microscope, so this is an accurate naming) and I received them today, along with a little card with the nicest words written on it. *AND* I received my petri dishes at the very same time. Talk about timing!
> 
> ...


Chlorociboria Sodabowski I want to marry your daughter then! No not I will be a really old man then…
You are nothing less than wonderful.
I sometimes see a movie with a wonderful excentric professor in the main role here and he is with no doubt by the name of Thomas Sodabowski.
Love you man, this is close to Russian to me, but it sure is interesting to follow.
Best thoughts and may the fungi be with you,
Mads


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second culture attempts*
> 
> So the admin of a french mycology website sent me several fresh pieces of Salix with lots of fruiting bodies of Chlorociboria Aeruginosa two days ago (he was also kind enough to test them for variety with his microscope, so this is an accurate naming) and I received them today, along with a little card with the nicest words written on it. *AND* I received my petri dishes at the very same time. Talk about timing!
> 
> ...


Hehehe, that nickname was meant to sound eastern european from the begining


----------



## SASmith (Mar 22, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second culture attempts*
> 
> So the admin of a french mycology website sent me several fresh pieces of Salix with lots of fruiting bodies of Chlorociboria Aeruginosa two days ago (he was also kind enough to test them for variety with his microscope, so this is an accurate naming) and I received them today, along with a little card with the nicest words written on it. *AND* I received my petri dishes at the very same time. Talk about timing!
> 
> ...


Thomas
I have not grown mushrooms in a couple of years, but when I did I mostly grew pearl oysters.
I used the liquid culture technique to inoculate bags of straw, wild bird feed and straw, or straw soaked in "grain juice".
You could probably also use a straw/manure mix. This was all done in a fairly wet basement.
If you were going to do it outside and have tree limbs\logs you can use that would be the way to go if you can wait.
The logs are inoculated with "plug spawn". Here is a link to plug spawn: http://www.fungi.com/plugs/plugs.html
That business is owned by Paul Stamets. You should read his books if serious about cultivation or spawn production.
Plug spawn is expensive but you can make your own by inoculating regular woodworking dowels with a liquid culture(liquid spawn). 
I'll see if I can find some good links online for you.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second culture attempts*
> 
> So the admin of a french mycology website sent me several fresh pieces of Salix with lots of fruiting bodies of Chlorociboria Aeruginosa two days ago (he was also kind enough to test them for variety with his microscope, so this is an accurate naming) and I received them today, along with a little card with the nicest words written on it. *AND* I received my petri dishes at the very same time. Talk about timing!
> 
> ...


I've seen that somewhere on the web, can't remember exactly where. Pearl oysters are quite a snap to grow, as far as I've been told. Now you tell me, the straw technique comes back to my mind, and I also knew about the impregnated dowels (one of the things I plan for Chlorociboria if I successfully find how to grow it in vitro first).

Do you imagine the potential for "spalting plug spawn"? hehehe 
I'm pretty sure it could be done very easily with Trametes versicolor or Fomes Fomentarius, if there can be a way to put them to sleep for a few months


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second culture attempts*
> 
> So the admin of a french mycology website sent me several fresh pieces of Salix with lots of fruiting bodies of Chlorociboria Aeruginosa two days ago (he was also kind enough to test them for variety with his microscope, so this is an accurate naming) and I received them today, along with a little card with the nicest words written on it. *AND* I received my petri dishes at the very same time. Talk about timing!
> 
> ...


@ Mads: by the way, it's *Ludwig von Sodabowski*!


----------



## SASmith (Mar 22, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second culture attempts*
> 
> So the admin of a french mycology website sent me several fresh pieces of Salix with lots of fruiting bodies of Chlorociboria Aeruginosa two days ago (he was also kind enough to test them for variety with his microscope, so this is an accurate naming) and I received them today, along with a little card with the nicest words written on it. *AND* I received my petri dishes at the very same time. Talk about timing!
> 
> ...


I do think it would be possible. 
I would soak the dowels in a nutrient solution of either grain or sugar or a mix. 
I have stored spawn in the fridge for over 6 months.
I have heard of people storing it for years in a fridge. The cool temps slows growth way down and over time it will dry out completely. All it needs to get growing again is moisture from the substrate it is inoculated into.
Pearl oysters: Yes they are a breeze to grow. I have fruited others but I like the taste of the oyster mushroom plus they grow super fast and can out compete most contaminates. They are also very fruitful and fit well into the growing conditions I could easily provide. I used nothing fancy in terms of equipment. I have a homemade "glove box", a homemade stir plate, and a pressure cooker. The biggest expense is the pressure cooker but you may have one already if you are making nutrients for petri dishes.
Scott


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

*Second attempt preliminary results: win*

Hey guys,

Out of the six compartments that I inoculated with Chlorociboria Aeruginosa in my petri dishes, one has absolutely settled and started growing and producing xylindein. Still I have to clean them every few days as the molds that invited themselves to the party are tough to fight, so I opted for the "gardening" method and just mow them out when they become too invasive. Using a lab culture medium would have prevented that from happening, but as I already stated in the previous post, the price is insane.

Say hello to my little friend!










I haven't finished the culture box yet, lack some tools that are at the parents'.

TTYL


----------



## Schwieb (Dec 3, 2008)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second attempt preliminary results: win*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Congratulations on your success thus far. I admire your tenacity.


----------



## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second attempt preliminary results: win*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Sodabowski, you've done it. You've finally completed the entire circle for me. I'm an industrial microbiologist by training, and MD to pay the bills. I've worked as a brewer (yeast bank director) and cell culturer. What you're doing right now completes some obscure circle for me.  Thank you for this.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second attempt preliminary results: win*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


@ Ken: I promised you some of this green-sytained wood and I will keep my promise whatever it takes 

@Al: I feel very honored by your comment mate  I want to and *will* harness this lil' fella!


----------



## llwynog (May 5, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second attempt preliminary results: win*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Thomas, 
Congratulations on the birth of your numerous children !


----------



## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second attempt preliminary results: win*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


We've done it Igor, we've done it !!! Can we call it Spaltenstein?


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second attempt preliminary results: win*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Bwahaha ^^


----------



## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second attempt preliminary results: win*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


As an MD with a microbiology background, and having spent a few years working with cell cultures, this series fulfills my inner nerd. As Al put it, it completes some sort of strange circle. Seriously, this is one of the most interesting things I've read on LJ's. 
Not sure how much malt agar extract you'd need but you may want to check out sigmaaldrich.com
A lot of their products are shipped from Europe anyways, you may be able to pick up the agar medium for cheaper than Ebay.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second attempt preliminary results: win*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Thanks for the nice words Rob, and also for the link! I'm pretty sure I will spend some cash there, hehehe.
I just saw that the guys at Sigma also have everything needed for chromatography, which is perfect for me as I also plan to do some hardcore dissociation of everything I can extract off of greened wood (I actually made a first attempt but I need my chems which are at the parents' ).

As I stated earlier on the series, on my first culture experiment I got a yellow fungus running like crazy alongside Chlorociboria, and here a chromatography could bring very interesting results as to exactly what color components are present in the colored wood. My specimens are emerald green, but I know of franckly blue ones, so why not give it a try and see what comes out


----------



## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second attempt preliminary results: win*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Chromatography! You certainly have some interesting hobbies. I haven't thought about chromatography since undergrad chemistry. If I ever make it to Paris, I'll have to pay you a visit and check out some of these projects.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second attempt preliminary results: win*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Trade maple syrup for spalting fungi? 

BTW I actually used maple syrup in this growing attempt: so far, so good.

I'll have to build a decent chromatography system then! my first attempt was made of two nutella lids with a aper tissue in between, all in a japanese takeaway food container lid, hahaha, not quite worthy of being shown off to the world ^^


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second attempt preliminary results: win*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Thomas you did it, gave birth to a little blue.
Congrat I can't wait to see where this will go.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## Leonard5 (Jan 10, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second attempt preliminary results: win*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Cool


----------



## EPJartisan (Nov 4, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *Second attempt preliminary results: win*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Alright!! This also excites me.. how odd that is. I haven't checked in a while but after your posts I fortified my spalting efforts with beer.. if I have no improvement … I will add honey to the plastic bin.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

*determining the temperature of destruction of xylindein*

Hey guyzz,

So little time these days with all the work at the university. But I finally settled for a while to build a wooden clamp for test tubes to make a first measurement of the temperature at which xylindein, the pigment produced by Chlorociboriae, permanently loses its color.

As you all know, sanding wood leads to quite high temperatures at the surface, and I had previously noticed that xylindein was destroyed when bandsawing stained wood with a freakin' dull blade from hell. As I couldn't find any reference to said temperature, well I will figure it out myself. This will be a first crappy measure just to check the temperature range (which I expect to be in the 50-300°C at least).

Why bother? Well, as I already said, sanding or sawing xylindein-stained wood can lead to its permanent discoloration, which sucks.










So the first step to actually measure that destroying temp, is to have a test tube securely clamped in an insulating material to be able to gradually increase its temperature while monitoring the color. Then make a chart of the measurements, graph the heck of it, and determine the decaying function blablabla, to finally get the number of the beast. For now, here is building a test tube wooden clamp with a scrap of palletwood (pine actually) with the detail pictures.

And uh, I can't resist the envy to also post it for Martin's latest contest 

Cheers!


----------



## llwynog (May 5, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *determining the temperature of destruction of xylindein*
> 
> Hey guyzz,
> 
> ...


Interesting.
How do you intend to measure the color ? 
A spectrophotometer would be the most accurate but for this kind of job, I guess that a digital camera set to manual and the eyedrop tool in Photoshop/gimp could be enough. I assume that you will throw in a thermocouple in your test tube to monitor the temperature.

Looking forward to your next posts.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *determining the temperature of destruction of xylindein*
> 
> Hey guyzz,
> 
> ...


You got it Fabrice, pictures with the camera (like when I did that Zeeman effect work last february), and then some software that I just made for the purpose. Crop to get the sample and the reading from the thermometer (two seperate files extracted from each picture), import all in dedicated software, extract the RGB values and convert them into HSV to get the hue, and plot the data: temperature VS hue, and estimate the actual transition temperature when the hue drops suddenly from green to brown.

I made a first set of measures this afternoon that was quick & dirty to assess the variation range, and just finished a second set, made with more attention and with a shot every degree celsius or so.
The final measurement will be done at the university with good instruments though.


----------



## llwynog (May 5, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *determining the temperature of destruction of xylindein*
> 
> Hey guyzz,
> 
> ...


I see.

If you want to do it with even more panache, you can search online for the lcms library (exists in dll form and various bindings for python or other languages).
With this library and 2 simple function calls, you can compute the L*a*b* values obtained from your RGB data and the standard sRGB colorspace profile. Once you get the 2 L*a*b* values, the Euclidian distance will give you a color difference which is extremely representative of how the human eye assesses color differences (much more so than the HLS model you are intending to use, especially if you use only the Hue).

Obviously, this is completely overkill but when did that ever stopped anyone ?

If you don't want to get dragged down the dark side of the force, you can disregard all the above


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *determining the temperature of destruction of xylindein*
> 
> Hey guyzz,
> 
> ...


Dude, I'm definately going to give that a shot!


----------



## llwynog (May 5, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *determining the temperature of destruction of xylindein*
> 
> Hey guyzz,
> 
> ...


Somehow, I knew it would appeal to you


----------



## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *determining the temperature of destruction of xylindein*
> 
> Hey guyzz,
> 
> ...


send it to NCIS ?


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *determining the temperature of destruction of xylindein*
> 
> Hey guyzz,
> 
> ...


@David: nah, I'm a "do it yourself" kinda guy 

@Fabrice: didn't even need to, the RGB spectrum has a huge fall in its red component when the xylindin deteriorates.


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *determining the temperature of destruction of xylindein*
> 
> Hey guyzz,
> 
> ...


Thomas, your saw is not as sweet as mine… probably because mine was a gift from you!
You are my favorite lumber scientist.
Best thoughts, hope you are better than fine,
Mads


----------



## reggiek (Jun 12, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *determining the temperature of destruction of xylindein*
> 
> Hey guyzz,
> 
> ...


I love doing the "mad scientist" thing. It is something I was born with….I like to know the underlying reasons why things do what they do. I used to take my toys apart as a kid….used to really tick off my parents. They didn't get over this until I learned how to reassemble them…lol.

I would love to see what data you learned from this? It might help to determine the optimal temperature to spalt wood….as it also determines what temperature that stops the process? Thanks for sharing this with us….and good luck in the contest!


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *determining the temperature of destruction of xylindein*
> 
> Hey guyzz,
> 
> ...


Well almost all fungi die above 50°C. Above 75°C you won't have many left. Above 100°C you would be in danger. The best temp range for fungi to actually grow is well known, it's 20-22°C, up to 26 for some of them. In fact, it depends on the species. On the other hand, most spalting fungi build melatonin barriers, which doesn't suffer from high temperatures. With the delicate xylindein stain, it's a whole different matter. Hence this study


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *determining the temperature of destruction of xylindein*
> 
> Hey guyzz,
> 
> ...


So you have to find a way to 'freeze' the fungi so it can stand the heat…
Smiles,
Mads


----------



## reggiek (Jun 12, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *determining the temperature of destruction of xylindein*
> 
> Hey guyzz,
> 
> ...


Cool information….I was thinking in the line of the different colors that different species stain the wood….I had some of the most spectacular purple streaks in a piece of maple….I wanted it to work on some other wood I had so I scraped some of the wood fibre from the maple into some wood I had dampened for spalting. The spores didn't take ;( and I had killed the other spores when I planed and sawed the other spalted board. The only reason I could see that those spores didn't take was either the temperature in the spot I had the spalting pile (a covered horse stall) - the spalting had been living in my wood when I got it….and survived until I messed with it…anyway…to make a very long story shorter….it would be very interesting to know which spalting bacteria lives at what states so to give the most vibrant colors to specific wood species….I'm sure the info exists but I have not found an easy location for it.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *determining the temperature of destruction of xylindein*
> 
> Hey guyzz,
> 
> ...


*In my last comment, replace "melatonin" with "melanin", I always mix these two up… as well as "xylindein" in english and "xylindine" in french. Anyway…*


----------



## lefay (Dec 5, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *determining the temperature of destruction of xylindein*
> 
> Hey guyzz,
> 
> ...


Xylindein is soluble in alcohol, or hot water. When you apply alcohol-base lacquer, in microscopic pics, the pigment is dispersed onto wood cells , not sure how affects the pigment discoloration in UV light on long term, but I'm loosing the depth of the wood texture, it looks like is artificially stained.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *determining the temperature of destruction of xylindein*
> 
> Hey guyzz,
> 
> ...


Are you talking about the sawdust being dragged out by alcohol? I tried several times to extract xylindein with alcohol (pure ethanol) and it never worked. Hot water didn't work either but I used a neutral solution (don't have my chemicals here, NaOH was used by the japanese team that tested xylindein for toxicity).

Acetone, on the other hand, works instantly. Here is the exact color of xylindein (the picture has been color-corrected to ensure the exact color on every display):










Now if you succeeded in extracting xylindein with alcoohol or hot water, how did you exactly do it?

I will bring a sample to the lab at my university to get the actual spectrum of xylindein, when time permits. The dominant blue is strong, the green in the wood comes from a secondary pigment (probably a xylindein quinone, recent research on the matter will soon be published by the experts of the field). It seems that the yellow pigment takes a far higher temperature to vanish, actually greater than what the wood itself can whithstand. I didn't succeed in extracting the yellow pigment yet, but I managed to have it produced in vitro by live specimens of Chlorociboria.

Next semester I will also try a new determination of the exact shape of the xylindein molecule by AFM means (although there already exists a chemical model of the molecule, as I will have access to an AFM, why the heck not try!)


----------



## lefay (Dec 5, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *determining the temperature of destruction of xylindein*
> 
> Hey guyzz,
> 
> ...


The problem with the extraction of any pigments from wood is that the chemical structure is modified once you interfere with any treatments. Melanin is one of my biggest problems, but recently xylindein it came into focus due to some molecular work. During DNA extraction different probes change (visible) spectrum from that blue-green color to indigo, yellow, olivegreen and grass green, which I found it very interesting, possible on behalf of the wood substrate and previous wood decayers that might play an role in Chlorociboria's pigment structure, which by the way, at this point, I personally consider it variable. During this work I noticed that the pigment is washed away with alcohol, although not entirely. And at this point I started to pay attention to the depth of the lacquered wood texture. Thanks for the tip with the acetone, never try it so far. The color change is important though, it can give an idea what chemical modifications occurred in the process. 
As a spectrum analysis, I've tried FTIR, nice defined picks, but doesn't give reliable info. I'm curios about your AFM, wish you good luck.
So far, I never tried to extract xylindein for science sake… but maybe soon, for HPLC.
For color analysis, I use spectrophotometer, it gives good data for statistics. 
And the truth is, those fungi are wicked. period.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *determining the temperature of destruction of xylindein*
> 
> Hey guyzz,
> 
> ...


=> And the truth is, those fungi are wicked. period.

I second that! 

Is your FTIR data available? I'd be very interested to give it a go.
I was originally planning the AFM to ensure the correct molecular shape and then estimate the wavelengths by quantum well analysis.


----------



## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *determining the temperature of destruction of xylindein*
> 
> Hey guyzz,
> 
> ...


My scientific data on this subject can be summarized in 3 words … this is cool. I dont know half, maybe more, of what your talkin about but i like watchin ya work Soda. Ohh and throwing in random heavy metal references is sweet. "(Spalters Inc. / Number of the Beast). Kick ass science is my kinda science.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *determining the temperature of destruction of xylindein*
> 
> Hey guyzz,
> 
> ...


hehehe  \m/


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

*First (preliminary) determination of decay temperature of Xylindein*

So here it is: the first attempt at determining the temperature at which the pigment produced by Chlorociboria vanishes.










This is *preliminary data* (you never stress it enough!), furthermore testing will be needed to assess the exact way it happens within a seriously controlled setup.

The pigment is stable up to 90°C, then it quickly starts to degrade. At around 110°C, half the pigment has lost its color. At 125°C, only 25% of the coloring remains. At 155°C, only 10% of the green is still present.

Please note that the subsequent coloration of the wood due to closed-vase combustion has not been taken into account here, and the temperature growth rate was rather quick (1°C/s) mainly because I used a propane torch (at a distance) to gently heat the test tube, and I didn't want to kill the whole gas bottle.

All in all, xylindein is stable up to 90°C, and quickly loses its color between 95-125°C.
Which would mean that, with my experimental setup, water steam would destroy the color of my wood samples. 
Which ultimately means that it might *not* be a good idea to try to hot-bend or steam-bend xylindein-stained banding for, say, binding a box or a guitar body.

I guess you guys now understand why I was so anxious about getting that information


----------



## Schwieb (Dec 3, 2008)

Sodabowski said:


> *First (preliminary) determination of decay temperature of Xylindein*
> 
> So here it is: the first attempt at determining the temperature at which the pigment produced by Chlorociboria vanishes.
> 
> ...


Thomas, The guitar maker shows up. You know, of course that I have wanted to build an acoustic guitar for some time. I can only try to imagine where your mind was headed. Perhaps you can work the spalted wood into the guitar in other ways. I see the scientist and the woodworker working this problem out just fine. I'll be looking for further developments.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *First (preliminary) determination of decay temperature of Xylindein*
> 
> So here it is: the first attempt at determining the temperature at which the pigment produced by Chlorociboria vanishes.
> 
> ...


Hey Ken, it's quite a long road before I can actually build a decent guitar. I still have a bandsaw mill to finish next summer to properly slab my wood, then build a jointer and buy a tablesaw!
I still didn't find any decent-sized samples to send to you but I didn't forget you 

As for the banding, actually, there are several wood softeners (used for veneer mainly) that can do the trick for heat sensitive binding


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *First (preliminary) determination of decay temperature of Xylindein*
> 
> So here it is: the first attempt at determining the temperature at which the pigment produced by Chlorociboria vanishes.
> 
> ...


oregonburls









 Stehr


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *First (preliminary) determination of decay temperature of Xylindein*
> 
> So here it is: the first attempt at determining the temperature at which the pigment produced by Chlorociboria vanishes.
> 
> ...


I really don't comprehend your data , but I'm considering ( in a blatant act of plagiarism ) submitting it to several scientific journals under









my usual pseudonym…..( i.e. Prof. Spaultz ) wadayathink?


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *First (preliminary) determination of decay temperature of Xylindein*
> 
> So here it is: the first attempt at determining the temperature at which the pigment produced by Chlorociboria vanishes.
> 
> ...


No way  I've started writing the final article, which will, by the way, be submitted to scientific journals.
The spalted maple sides of that Stehr acoustic guitar are wicked cool! But no Chlorociboria stain out there


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *First (preliminary) determination of decay temperature of Xylindein*
> 
> So here it is: the first attempt at determining the temperature at which the pigment produced by Chlorociboria vanishes.
> 
> ...


Shucks ! foiled once more ….....blinded by science ….....I relent to your superior intellect . : )

I agree…......very cool guitar .


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *First (preliminary) determination of decay temperature of Xylindein*
> 
> So here it is: the first attempt at determining the temperature at which the pigment produced by Chlorociboria vanishes.
> 
> ...


Thomas you are wonderful.
You will play FUNKIS all night long.
Smiles,
Mads


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *First (preliminary) determination of decay temperature of Xylindein*
> 
> So here it is: the first attempt at determining the temperature at which the pigment produced by Chlorociboria vanishes.
> 
> ...


What is FUNKIS mads? o.o


----------



## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *First (preliminary) determination of decay temperature of Xylindein*
> 
> So here it is: the first attempt at determining the temperature at which the pigment produced by Chlorociboria vanishes.
> 
> ...


Grand Funkis Railroad?


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *First (preliminary) determination of decay temperature of Xylindein*
> 
> So here it is: the first attempt at determining the temperature at which the pigment produced by Chlorociboria vanishes.
> 
> ...


FUNK'ies
Is that better…


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *First (preliminary) determination of decay temperature of Xylindein*
> 
> So here it is: the first attempt at determining the temperature at which the pigment produced by Chlorociboria vanishes.
> 
> ...


Oh I get it  Where have you been Mads?


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *First (preliminary) determination of decay temperature of Xylindein*
> 
> So here it is: the first attempt at determining the temperature at which the pigment produced by Chlorociboria vanishes.
> 
> ...


I'm on the moon these days…
Will write you a mail soon.
Best of my thoughts,
Mads


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

*fast-extracted xylindein*

Hi guys,

So in an effort to gear up my lab stuff, I recently bought a cheap peristaltic pump on ebay to help extract xylindein faster. Relying on gravity sure works, but it's damn slow. So I filled up a funnel with xylindein-stained sawdust, connected the output to the pump, set the other end of the pump above the funnel for a closed-loop circuit of sorts, dropped enough acetone to soak all the sawdust, and fired the pump for a few minutes. Wow, I gotta tell you, this modus operandi is waay faster than the "wait for it" approach. In a matter of minutes, the acetone was saturated with xylindein, so much so that I had to pump it out into a vial and add fresh acetone to the funnel to continue extracting the pigment. Despite that, the sawdust still remains very green, and it will be good to go for another cycle after it has been very finely ground. I don't have a proper mortar and pestle at the moment, so that will wait.

So there you have it, a better view of what the color of the stains made by Chlorociboria look like in the raw.










Next up: put a few drops of it into an AFM, a few other drops into a transmission spectrometer, and make science with it \m/

Hope you enjoy  Cheers!


----------



## dspahn (Nov 19, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *fast-extracted xylindein*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> ...


Are you attempting to do man-made spalting or something? If so, cool!


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *fast-extracted xylindein*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> ...


Not really, in fact I'm studying several properties of that fungus-made stain to better understand how some woodworking techniques can affect its color. Dr Spalting is the one studying it in detail, and I gotta tell you she rules the man-made spalting world!


----------



## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *fast-extracted xylindein*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> ...


I was just wondering how your experiment is goin. I love this blog. Keep us posted Soda, i wanna see you make some green wood …. or somethin like that.


----------



## SASmith (Mar 22, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *fast-extracted xylindein*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> ...


Nice work.
I really enjoy this series.


----------



## Schwieb (Dec 3, 2008)

Sodabowski said:


> *fast-extracted xylindein*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> ...


Natural stains to dye wood for pens??? humm…...... I am looking forward to hearing what you do with this process.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *fast-extracted xylindein*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> ...


@Ken: well, even though I thought about using the extracted xylindein to stain a pen after it's been turned (the next one will probably be that kind of experiment), I'm not sure the color would be very interesting, plus you still have to use acetone to extract and inject the stain in the wood, which is not really eco-responsible in my book… I mainly want to assess very precisely the temperature at which that stain vanishes to determine the exact process to hot-bend bandings made with that wood without losing the color. I'm thinking guitars here…


----------



## dspahn (Nov 19, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *fast-extracted xylindein*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> ...


So I just read the entire blog series, and I am profoundly entertained, both by your methods and results, and by the clear passion you have for what you're doing.

I apologise in advance for what may be a stupid question, and while I have a pretty analytical mind, I'm no scientist. Regarding discoloration at temperatures exceeding 90 celsius, does this hold true for the xylindein once it's been extracted? In other words, if you were to heat the "vial" shown in the picture above to 90 or more, would the color change?

Very cool blog. Can't wait for the next installment.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *fast-extracted xylindein*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> ...


Nah, that's a good one. I won't try heating it in the acetone, for quite obvious reasons  but I can sure let the acetone evaporate and then heat the deposited xylindein. In fact, I plan to do both methods when I will have the time to do it at the university lab: heating it in the raw, within a chip'o'wood, and by evaporating the pure extracted pigment. What I can tell you at this point is that acetone attacks xylindein on the medium run (over the course of a few days) and turns it brown. Probably one of the two methyl groups in the xylindein molecule that switch with a cetone group. Dunno, will have to experiment and spectro-probe it.


----------



## dspahn (Nov 19, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *fast-extracted xylindein*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> ...


Ahh, yes. Wouldn't want any "Jump in the fire" incidents, now would we? 

I wonder if any other alcohol groups might have some success in extracting the xylindein: alkanes, alkenes, etc.? (It's been many, many years since my high school organic chemistry class.) And I'm not sure why you'd even want to experiment with this, except maybe to try to find one that doesn't attack the xylindein… Or maybe to find one that has a higher combustion temperature.

Feel free to ignore my out-loud thinking.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *fast-extracted xylindein*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> ...


Out-loud thinking is a great way to go further! I didn't have any luck with ethanol, maybe other alcoohols would work. Toluene works for sure, but it's not really safe either!


----------



## DrSpalting (Jan 22, 2012)

Sodabowski said:


> *fast-extracted xylindein*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> ...


Well I'm super geeked. I did a lot of acetone extraction on spated wood several years ago. Chlorociboria was always by far the most rapid.

Keep up the neat work!


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *fast-extracted xylindein*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> ...


Thomas you are wonderful - nothing less!
It looks stunning, I would like to also use ice and vodka, and then you could play that guitar for us.
Hope life is showing it's shiny side.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *fast-extracted xylindein*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> ...


im in with mads on the vodka ice and guitar thing … dsphan excellent metallica reference.

Im read back through it again and sometimes i wish i had a scientific brain because your journey here was awesome.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

*STM vs xylindein: STM WINS!*

Hi guys.

So, to sum it up, this is Chlorociboria, a.k.a. "the mean tiny hulk":










Making nice things to the wood it lives into (right)










because of this pigment, the xylindein:










Which response to light in the visible spectrum looks like this:










And whose picture I was (almost certainly) the first to ever take with a Scanning Tunelling Microscope.
Say hello to my little friend:










Now how cool is that?


----------



## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Sodabowski said:


> *STM vs xylindein: STM WINS!*
> 
> Hi guys.
> 
> ...


Fascinating!


----------



## SASmith (Mar 22, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *STM vs xylindein: STM WINS!*
> 
> Hi guys.
> 
> ...


Now how cool is that? 
Cool enough to be my new desktop background.
Thanks for sharing.


----------



## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *STM vs xylindein: STM WINS!*
> 
> Hi guys.
> 
> ...


the mean tiny hulk … ronnie james dio! Way to be Soda looks like one hell of an accomplishment.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *STM vs xylindein: STM WINS!*
> 
> Hi guys.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the feedback guys. 
@Chris: I can't tell you how much of a personal accomplishment that last picture is!

More to come when I get some more spare time


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *STM vs xylindein: STM WINS!*
> 
> Hi guys.
> 
> ...


Congrat on that picture!
Hope life smiles at you in Paris.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## Porchfish (Jun 20, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *STM vs xylindein: STM WINS!*
> 
> Hi guys.
> 
> ...


Fantastic !


----------



## llwynog (May 5, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *STM vs xylindein: STM WINS!*
> 
> Hi guys.
> 
> ...


Transmission specters… reminds me of the good old days…
The first picture is really beautiful. Did you take it yourself ?


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *STM vs xylindein: STM WINS!*
> 
> Hi guys.
> 
> ...


Alas, no, I found it here: http://www.nagrzyby.pl/index.php?artname=gatunek&id=217


----------



## llwynog (May 5, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *STM vs xylindein: STM WINS!*
> 
> Hi guys.
> 
> ...


Oh well… At least you have the last picture to claim as yours.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *STM vs xylindein: STM WINS!*
> 
> Hi guys.
> 
> ...


All but the first (and that of the shape of xylindein) are mine


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

*Predashun: I haz it*

Or better yet: when the dreaded tree-killing mushroom from hell finds its own slayer.










These chunks of mushroom flesh (completely dry) are from Fomes Fomentarius, the evil tinder conk, that loves birch to death, literally.

Being a scientific mind in a demented body, I of course cut down a rather big Fomes fruiting body into chunks (secret project) and brought them back to Paris with me. Right now I'm sorting things out here, many will go back to the parents' house, in my shop (or the opposite, maybe).

Sorting and reorganizing my wood I checked out the little cardboard box into which said Fomes pieces were. To my surprise, dusty worm poop came out of it.










Okay so I've got some kind of infestation there! Grab a takeaway japanese food plastic container (Mads would yell at me if I called those boxes "bento-to-go"), cue the camera, bring out the big lights, and run it full screen to check out the suckers.


































Tiniest. Bugs. Ever. Two to three millimeters. Chewing up one of the most agressive wood chewing fungi.










Wow, I should have filmed that actually. Anyway here are the crappy $0.99 ebay webcam (free postage) pixes I just took. Enjoy!

Cheers


----------



## Schwieb (Dec 3, 2008)

Sodabowski said:


> *Predashun: I haz it*
> 
> Or better yet: when the dreaded tree-killing mushroom from hell finds its own slayer.
> 
> ...


Looks like the little bugs made a mess of your mushroom slabs. I wonder what sort of secret project you had in mind for that stuff. You're such a nut Thomas. I'll look forward to hearing more about this.

Ken


----------



## llwynog (May 5, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *Predashun: I haz it*
> 
> Or better yet: when the dreaded tree-killing mushroom from hell finds its own slayer.
> 
> ...


Ouch I know these little fiends very well. They are "vrillettes" ("Anobium punctatum" for the small ones and "Xestobium rufovillosum" for the bigger ones). They are the one that eat my walnut.
Be careful with the rest of your wood stock, tinder is soft and that is what they went for first but they are bound to have a go at your other woods.
Mine came with an old furniture I bought on the flea market and although I treated it 3 times (injected bug killer in each hole to have it spread into the wood) some of these still come out to mate in May/June and to try to emigrate to some other wooden items.

Cheers,


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Predashun: I haz it*
> 
> Or better yet: when the dreaded tree-killing mushroom from hell finds its own slayer.
> 
> ...




```
Ken: nut is a lesser word when it comes to describing me ;)<br />
```
 Fabrice: HOLY SH!T that sucks! I've thrown out all the munched parts but will check the remaining wood in my shop once there!


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *Predashun: I haz it*
> 
> Or better yet: when the dreaded tree-killing mushroom from hell finds its own slayer.
> 
> ...


Those little wood bugs are our worst nightmare.
Glad you did not made boxes for the wood made of wood!!
So you are forgivem my friend.
See if you can spalt the bug… it will be best in two seperate parts…
Good luck on the project.
Have a wonderful summer.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## KOVA (Nov 21, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *Predashun: I haz it*
> 
> Or better yet: when the dreaded tree-killing mushroom from hell finds its own slayer.
> 
> ...


*EN LAS NOTICIAS HABLARON DE UNA GRAN INFESTACIÓN DE BICHOS EN LOS
BOSQUES PARISINOS: AHORA YA SÉ, QUIÉN LLEVÓ ESOS BICHOS JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA*


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Predashun: I haz it*
> 
> Or better yet: when the dreaded tree-killing mushroom from hell finds its own slayer.
> 
> ...


Jajaja =p

de veras, es una locura…


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

*Progress on the green elf cup's pigment*

Hi Jocks,

Working on and off on that fungus still. There's been considerable progress on the US side since the team led by Dr Spalting nailed down the conditions into which Chlorociboria produces xylindein. Not that I didn't send a hint or two 

Since they did the huge work that was needed to understand how this fungus works and how to tame it, I'm the happy bunny who's now tinkering with the pigment's chemical part. Not that I'm a chemist, nananaw, but since I'm in a mixed Masters course now, I study both physics and chemistry (to become a college and high school teacher of both). Which gives me many possibilities to access the chem lab hardware, and most importantly, the experts.

Digging on my own side of the ocean I had one of those "whack own's forehead" moments a few days ago, and made quick tests to check out the reality. Bullseye: xylindein changes color with pH. So my spectra are good to dump and I must do them again. Actually, xylindein is a weak diacid (it can give off two hydrogen atoms per molecule), so it has THREE different colors depending on the pH, and what I took for decay when heated was one of the color changes, which can be reversed *in some cases* (I'll study that in deep later this year).

So today I set up a side experiment at the lab and made a pre-wash with ethanol to a very decently saturated sample in sawdust and shaving forms (remember, there is no such thing as scrap wood!). Ethanol washes out the tannins in wood (that's true for almost all woods) but not xylindein. Not as much as acetone anyway. As my tests confirmed (more on that later next week) ethanol washes out the tannins, which also have color dependency upon pH, but very little xylindein if any at all. So today was laundry day, and I got my sample cleaned up in preparation for the actual extraction.










Cue the Soxhlet apparatus, which is a genius' work. Let me explain how it works.
There is a round flask at the bottom, attached to the Soxhlet apparatus. Said flask is heated by the blue thingie. Inside the Soxhlet you can see a kinda white-ish cylinder of sorts: that's the filter cartridge inside of which the sample is located. The Soxhlet is then filled up with the solvent, almost to the top of the little glass tube that can be seen at the left. The round flask also gets its share of solvent (I used a small one, way too small actually). Then a water-circulating condenser is fitted above the Soxhlet and, well, connected to the tap to have cold water circulating inside.

While heating, the solvent evaporates and travels to the top via the glass tube to the right. It rises up to the condenser, where it cools down, liquifies and drips down into the cartridge. This is pure recondensed solvent, whatever it contained stays inside the round flask at the bottom. Now this is where the magic happens: while the solvent drips down, its level rises inside the Soxhlet. Remember the little tube at the left? That's a siphon. As soon as the solvent level reaches the top of said siphon, WOOSH, gravity takes its duty and everything is sucked down into the round flask, and since this is the solvent that went through the sample, it's loaded with whatever soluble compound is inside the sample. Once all the solvent has been sucked down, the siphoning action stops, the level of liquid inside the Soxhlet starts to rise slowly again, and so on. 
No moving parts. No pumps. Only freaking hydrodynamics and gravity. Really clever stuff.

I hope these explanations were simple enough, I also filmed the siphoning action, which happened every twenty minutes (slow, because of the very small round flask, I'll aim for a big one next time).

Check that out:






More after the exams… Cheers from the lab.


----------



## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Progress on the green elf cup's pigment*
> 
> Hi Jocks,
> 
> ...


Interesting, Thomas. I'm going to buy myself a glass of wine because I actually understood over half of that.
Two questions arise:
Is "blue thingie" a scientific term that is only used in France? (If so I guess it is likely " chosie bleu" and you have kindly translated it for us)
When do we get to use the dye to get green veneer?

Oh, and a third question, you mention tannins being pH sensitive with respect to color. Is this involved in its blackening when exposed to ferrous ions? Is there a pH related sub-reaction involved there somewhere or is this another phenomenon altogether?


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Progress on the green elf cup's pigment*
> 
> Hi Jocks,
> 
> ...


Hi Paul, the "blue thingie" was my late night term for "round flask heater" actually 

The dye itself wouldn't work as good as the fungus itself, since it would give similar results to staining wood with any pigment: flooded, no selective inking, color everywhere. The interesting thing with spalting is that only the parts of the wood into which the fungus can actually go get some color (namely the sap channels if I understood well). Thus there's a lot more depth and variation to it. If the idea was to artificially flood wood with a pigment to stain it, the easiest and cheapest way would be solid pigments like indigo and a yellow one, or even printer inks. But never can you get such a result.

Now the ferrous ions. These aren't alone, there is a pH zone into which they exist (raise the pH and they precipitate out of solution as an hydroxyde, so yes, you've got them in acidic conditions). So yes, you got it, there is a relationship  You can get similar results with ammonia (even in its fume form) with, say, oak, only than this time it's the other way, since ammonia is basic (raises the pH instead of lower ing it for acids). Might be interesting to set up a small experiment now that you bring the subject out. I'll keep it in my to-do list and keep you guys posted on the matter


----------



## Schwieb (Dec 3, 2008)

Sodabowski said:


> *Progress on the green elf cup's pigment*
> 
> Hi Jocks,
> 
> ...


Hi Thomas, Unlike Paul, I'm not sure how much of that I understood, but I had a glass of wine to cheer you on. That's quite a device. I was always fascinated by the glassware used in chemistry labs. Interesting to watch how this one works. Great to see a post from you, keep up the great work.


----------



## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *Progress on the green elf cup's pigment*
> 
> Hi Jocks,
> 
> ...


Ok let me take a crack at it to see if I'm even close, the reason I am curious in this blog is because I am a Spalter and have a corner pit in the back yard with logs cooking now, though I think the winter is going to slow things down a bit, also in my adventures I've found that some species spalt faster then others.

Is this test to see how colors are formed when spalling?


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Progress on the green elf cup's pigment*
> 
> Hi Jocks,
> 
> ...


No Randy, not exactly. I'm researching on the pigment itself, not the fungus (which has been intensely studied already). My aim here is to determine the limits of the woodworking techniques that can be applied to the wood stained green by Chlorociboria without losing its unique color.

Depending on the wood species AND (most importantly) the fungi type, spalting can be lightning fast (well, weeks) or snaily slow (years). Did you check out Dr Spalting's series on the Fine Woodworking website? First place to look at


----------



## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Sodabowski said:


> *Progress on the green elf cup's pigment*
> 
> Hi Jocks,
> 
> ...


Oh ok thanks for the info on the link I'll check it out.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

*Essential reading: upcoming book from the scientific authority!*










Quick update since I'm short on spare time these days with all the work at the university.

After several years of hard work from a passionate team, here comes the first ever book covering all the aspects of spalted wood (including a few scientific bits from yours truly) spanning from science to art (Krenov, anyone?).

You can order your copy (or your significant other's, if you're in the hunt for the perfect gift) here! 870 pictures spanning across 288 pages, "insanity" in the main author's words 

Cheers!


----------



## Patricelejeune (Feb 21, 2013)

Sodabowski said:


> *Essential reading: upcoming book from the scientific authority!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cool!!!!!


----------



## Schwieb (Dec 3, 2008)

Sodabowski said:


> *Essential reading: upcoming book from the scientific authority!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Thomas, I was honestly expecting to see your name among the authors, knowing your interest in the subject. I'll either have to treat myself or see if Santa will get me a copy.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Essential reading: upcoming book from the scientific authority!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ken, I'm only a humble contributor for this book


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

*Pushing the studies on Chlorociboria to their ultimate goal *

Hi guys,

Quick update: I'm pursuing my internship at the C2RMF these days, and we're having a blast preparing the experiments that will conclude all that I did before on the subject. We will experiment the interactions between Chlorociboria-stained wood and the finishes, the products used to remove the finishes (when past restorations occurred), and the new techniques and products that we will devise to get the color back and stabilize it on faded specimens (they were half-way there, which is great).

Believe me, it's amazing to work with the restorers of the French museums, they're a handful of experts of utmost talent and ethics, great company and definitely addicted to what they do! My kind of people.
Oh, and the paintings being restored are on the floor just under. Remember that Da Vinci masterpiece that needs some caring love because it had been overly varnished (15 layers!) a century ago? Well I've seen it just yesterday, up close and personal, with the IR and X-ray pictures, even discussed with the experts about the previous preservation work that had been done on it and the current one.

Good times!

Cheers from the Louvre Museum building!


----------



## dominikmatus (Mar 4, 2013)

Sodabowski said:


> *Pushing the studies on Chlorociboria to their ultimate goal *
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> ...


Nice to hear. Well, welcome in the world of restorers.


----------



## Schwieb (Dec 3, 2008)

Sodabowski said:


> *Pushing the studies on Chlorociboria to their ultimate goal *
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> ...


What a real honor to be with all that fine art. Way to go, Thomas


----------



## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *Pushing the studies on Chlorociboria to their ultimate goal *
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> ...


Rubbin elbows with the big dogs! Good luck soda.


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *Pushing the studies on Chlorociboria to their ultimate goal *
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> ...


Ohhh I am so happy for you.
How wonderful, not only to work with the best, but also on pieces from the masters.
Most of all I am happy to hear you are in a place you love to be.
Best of my thoughts,
Mads


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

*more study results*

Hi all,

Long time since the last installment.

So, after using most of my time this year as a teacher, I finally managed to get back to the study with the folks at the C2RMF. Good and bad news : *xylindein*, the green stain produced by Chlorociboria, doesn't really get on well with most finishes. When it's still in its "raw" form, inside the mycelium of the fungus across the wood fibers, it's less picky but still some finishes won't do the cut and will fade it with no possibility of a return.

Why does it matter? Well, when you're dealing with an historical piece of furniture, the last thing you want is your new varnish to destroy its color. Even for contemporary work, given the work that it takes to cut the veneers and assemble a marquetry, it would be a shame if the finish destroyed the color after a few weeks/months/years. 
If you work with green-spalted wood, that is.

Now that the study is done (but not yet published) I can give you all a hint : stay away from petroleum wax, it totally destroys the xylindein in a matter of weeks! Beeswax doesn't cut it a lot more either. Shellac is okay as long as you use the dewaxed blonde version, preferably bleached. More next time!

Cheers


----------



## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *more study results*
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> ...


The obvious answer is for you to make your own compatible finish now. Sodathane!


----------



## dominikmatus (Mar 4, 2013)

Sodabowski said:


> *more study results*
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> ...


Cool. This is very interesting for me. I'm just waiting for the article. As I know, craftsmen who made the Cheb relief intarsia, they used just animal glue as a surface treatment and in some cases wax on it and later in history people put the shellac also. In most cases it's still green.


----------



## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *more study results*
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update Thomas. Would you be able to post a link to the article when it is published?


----------



## Schwieb (Dec 3, 2008)

Sodabowski said:


> *more study results*
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> ...


Thomas, Nice to see you post again. It's been a long time for me too. I just remembered that my Daughter is in France as I write this.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *more study results*
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> ...


@Chris: whoa, dude, gotta love that name, hahaha!
@Dominik: hey I didn't know that, do you have any studies on that matter? Shellac disturbs xylindein on the long run with exposure to light, as my exteded study showed.
@Paul: that will be the next step, it was an internship report, but I sure will.
@Ken: been ages for sure, this first year as a teacher was really painstaking, not because of the teaching but because of the corresponding (useless) diploma.

You'll see more of me these holidays, I've started building the bandsaw sawmill last time I was at the parents', this summer I might be able to really get a lot done on it, for now I have the cutting head welded, which was the difficult starting point: teaching myself how to stick weld, with help of all the Youtubers who do just that!


----------



## dominikmatus (Mar 4, 2013)

Sodabowski said:


> *more study results*
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> ...


Well, I just bought the book Reliefintarsien aus Eger in german about it. But i thing there will be nothing more about this. What else? I will tell you.


----------



## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Sodabowski said:


> *more study results*
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> ...


Well on the topic of xylindein I still have a few surprises under my sleeve!


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Sodabowski said:


> *more study results*
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> ...


Congratulations on finishing the study.
Hope to see many more from you.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------

