# Rough Lumber vs BORG Lumber



## LordPadriac (Dec 1, 2014)

I have been doing carpentry/woodworking ever since I was a kid but there are some areas where what I was taught a responsible home owner needed to know has left some amazing gaps in woodworking knowledge. One such gap I have recently discovered is in rough lumber vs BORG lumber. I cannot wrap my head around how it can possibly be cheaper to buy rough cut lumber in larger quantities despite nearly infinite testimonials to this fact on the web. Sure you can get species the BORGS don't carry but once you go even to 5/4 thickness the price difference seems to become negligible. I've bought some pieces of rough Mahogany at Woodcraft for a few small projects and there also seems to be a huge amount of waste that will add to the cost of using rough lumber. Can anyone explain? A for instance would be white oak I am currently trying to source for a couple of dressers and a crib.

I am feeling very stupid about this whole rough lumber thing at this point and throw myself at the mercy of random strangers on the internet for help.


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## RHolcomb (Mar 23, 2010)

The reason you aren't seeing much of a price difference is because you are buying retail finished boards from the BORGS and Retail rough cut from a Woodcraft store. If you buy your rough cut directly from a local mill there is a huge savings. You aren't paying a retail price at a mill. A 1" X 6" Maple board at Home Depot (which is really 3/4" x 5 1/2") currently is selling for $3.98 a linear foot. So an 8' board will be about $32. For $32 at my local mill, I can buy two 5/4 12' long 7"-8" wide rough cut Maple boards. Of course, prices for rough cut vary by location so you may find prices that are better or worse in your location.


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## endgrainy (Mar 25, 2013)

I assume by BORG lumber you mean Lowes/Home Depot. If you look at the cost by board feet, the BORG S4S hardwood lumber is pretty expensive.

Example:
Lowes 1"x6"x96" poplar board = $20.09
That's 4 board feet
So $5.02 per board foot

Rough poplar at a saw mill near me is $1.50 - $2.00 depending on grade.

Woodcraft/rockler are pretty expensive too, but not that expensive.

Edit - Rob beat me to it


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

I found a custom millwork place near me that sells hardwoods to anybody. I was in one of their storage warehouses and they have thousands and thousands of board feet of lumber. I bought cherry and maple for less than the price of pine at the Borg. They have white maple and brown maple, different color grades of cherry, walnut, oak (red and white) and lots of others. They usually have some thicker timbers in different species as well. They had some absolutely gorgeous 8/4 cherry and some even thicker maple and walnut and oak. All kiln dried. Not air dried.

Their stuff is all skip-planed. They plane it just enough to see exactly what they have, but it's still considered rough. So I run it through the planer and make whatever I need.

And endgrainy's example above is exactly why I'll go for rough cut any time. I started doing the math. It really just doesn't take that long to run the boards through the planer myself.


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## ChipByrd (Feb 14, 2013)

Maybe if you share where you are from, someone could give you some leads on local lumber yards. Here's a the prices from a guy I recently purchased about 80 bf from.

http://www.hickoryandoak.com/pricing.htm

BTW, no affiliation with the guy, but I bought some 5/4 QSWO that is beautiful.


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## Flocktothewall (Jan 16, 2011)

When I bought S4S poplar from HD to do an entertainment center, after the fact I added it up and it came out to almost $8.00 a BF. For POPLAR. S2S at the lumber yard near me is $1.80 BF and S4S is $2.40.

BORG sells convenience, not price.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Buying rough cut lumber from a mill will pay for a planer and jointer in materiel cost savings in a very short time.

Woodcraft lumber prices are out of sight!


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

The other factor to consider is quality. A warped 3/4" board does me no good. Once it is already planed to thickness, I can't fix the defects. Rough lumber is milled in your shop, so you know it is straight and square. It is so nice to use straight, stable lumber when building furniture.


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## LordPadriac (Dec 1, 2014)

I'm in Chicopee, MA. There are very few places near me that matter. By that I mean I drive an hour to and from work in Middlefield, MA which means if a place isn't open on a Saturday it might as well not exist. I can't afford to loose $150.00 by not going to work one day during the week so I can go spend $150.00 on lumber. That move would probably also get me divorced.

There is a place on Route 20 in Chester, MA Bannish Lumber and I am told by the retired locals that gather for coffee hour where I work (there's a community center attached to the place) that Bannish is pretty decent but they are closed on the weekend and most of the holidays I have off. There's a few places that show up as "lumber dealers" in the immediate area and one in Ludlow (15 minutes) that carries rough but the prices are precious little better than the BORG's finished lumber and there is a "special order" charge on everything including the basic domestic stuff. They seem to be retail masquerading as wholesale.

The only real option is a place I've found in Westfield, MA called Oleksak Lumber. They only carry domestics so I'm still hitting Woodcraft for rough exotics or ordering them blind online. They are open Saturday mornings and will plane all four sides for basically pennies but I'm not sure the way the guy was talking about it on the phone if it's quite them same thing as what I think of when planing and jointing in my workshop. He won't just plane one face and straight line rip one edge - it's all four sides or nothing. Also rather quaintly backwards and more than a little inconvenient they only take cash or personal check. I can't remember the last time I took cash anywhere let alone felt safe walking around with $300.00 in my pocket. I'll have to see if I still have checks gathering dust somewhere. I do actually know right where the place is though. Oddly enough I've driven by it twice a day on may to and from Middlefield for four years now but there's no sign on the road and it's set so far back I never noticed the place.

Really missing Doane & Williams right now.


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## TheWoodenOyster (Feb 6, 2013)

For me it isn't about price, it is about quality and selection. First, nearly all of the BORG lumber is warped or cupped or bowed or something. So, it isn't really any good for fine woodworking anyway unless you mill it again. Second, I like to venture outside of poplar, SYP, and red oak. In my area, to do that you have to go to a real hardwood supplier and buy rough.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

While HD/Lowe's are can bring a lot of things to you cheap, lumber is a different animal. I have one sawmill within 15 miles, and 2 more in the 45 mile range. They're out there milling logs to rough lumber with very little in transportation costs. The boards are traveling just a few miles, and then dried, etc. I go to them, buy in quantity and come home.

If I buy rough cut from two woodworking stores in town (one a Woodcraft), the prices start to converge.

The last time I checked, red oak from HD worked out to $7/bf, it is $2.25 at my sawmill. But it is rough-you can't deal with it without some combination of jointer, planer, table saw, good, sharp hand planes. I made a number of pieces with BORG red oak. It was quick and easy. I've used poplar in painted pieces where I bout it cut to width as well. But rough is way cheaper.


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## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

What about:

Great Brook Lumber
20 Industrial Road
Southwick, MA 01077

30 minutes from you.

http://www.downesandreader.com/
In Stoughton, MA or Milford CT. hour and 30 minutes and an hour respectively. Open Saturdays and through the week.


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## Crank50 (Jan 31, 2014)

Considered mail order?
Might not save much money but I hear the quality can be great.


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## grub32 (Jan 20, 2010)

How about craigslist?

I buy lots of mine from there.

Good luck!


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## LordPadriac (Dec 1, 2014)

For dimensioning I have a 13" 3 knife Dewalt lunch box planer and a Delta 36-725 table saw. I also have a Delta benchtop jointer I got a two years ago on clearance gathering dust that I will likely put on a craigslist at some point, it may prove useful to a hobbyist model maker but it is not to me.

When money becomes available I will be investing a good Rikon or Laguna bandsaw long before I plunk down the cash on a floor model jointer - much more use to me. I know someone is likely to get up in arms over a jointer being a must but we never had the floor space growing up and found other ways. A good jointer to me is a luxury right up there with a sliding table saw - surely a nice toy to have but unnecessary and for my budget and space there are more useful purchases to come first.

I also don't really see hand planes as a viable alternative - there's just no way they can do better or more accurate job than a properly set up machine. That's the whole point of the machine…plus I'd like to get this done before my sister has her kid.

After reading the responses here and talking with the guy at OlekSak in Westfield this morning rough 4/4 Red Oak 6" wide at his best grade is $2.50 a boardfoot. He charges $0.25 a face per boardfoot per face to plane if I want that done. That would still only make it $3.50 a boardfoot for his best grade. If I have this right a 4/4×6" x 8' gives me 4 boardfeet. At his rough price that would make that board $10.00 if he planed all four sides that board would still only be $14.00. Depot right now is selling that board for $22.80 which also comes pre-warped.

I am going to figure that the 6" rough board is going to give me at best 5" when done which will let me rip 2 - 2 1/4" wide boards out of it Perfect for much of this project. That is of course what it would ideally let me do. I am going to assume a lot of waste however for my guesstimate (plans won't be finished until tonight or tomorrow sometime) I need about 100 boardfeet which works out to about 25 of those boards. Buying rough that comes to roughly $62.50 or $87.50 if I have Oleksak plane all four sides. That's for his best grade. At Depot those 25 boards would be $570.00. I could still be mistaken but I did the math five times just now to make sure but that is an astonishing price difference.


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## daddywoofdawg (Feb 1, 2014)

the woodcraft type of store is a second or third tier outlet and borg's(never heard that before what does it mean) are 3rd or forth tier, meaning the mill being 1st tier they log it or have logs brought to them;so they sell the cheapest.the woodcraft's of the world buy maybe from the mill,most likely buy from a distributor,that has bought from the mill so there is a mark-up from the distributor then woodcraft has to mark-up. the home depots by from a distributor.So the more handling involved the higher the price.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

Sam,
I did without a jointer for a long time, but I wouldn't think of it as a luxury item, either. I got a used 6" with 60" table on CL for $150-that's not in slider table saw territory for me at all. As for hand planes-the issue isn't precision, it is time, effort, and technique.

All of us have to make choices in our particular situation. Sounds like having OlkSak do some of the milling works in your situation.

As for your savings, you are going to save a lot, but somehow you did the math wrong, even if you did it a bunch of times.

Borg: 25x$22.80=$570
Okelsak: 25x$14=$350

Still a savings of $220.


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

I got my jointer because I learned real fast that passing a warped or twisted board through the planer just gives you a warped and/or twisted board with parallel sides 

You can get some warp/twist even on rough cut. I just find it easier to get one side and one edge straight and go from there. Then I know I'm starting with straight pieces with square faces.

My jointer is on wheels. Takes up VERY little space when put away.

BUT… (and it's a BIG but…) having said all that, it's still a matter of what works for YOU. You *can* get a board pretty flat using a sled in the planer if you know how. It's a lot more dinkin' around and I usually don't have that kind of time. I want to get to the building part.  
You *can* get a straight edge using a flush trim bit in a router with a good straight edge guide. There are many ways to skin this cat. Everyone has to weight how much space they have and how much time they have and how much money they have.


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## bdresch (Dec 30, 2013)

I buy a lot off craigslist. I'm in Wisconsin and a lot of people cut and mill their own here, so people are alway selling on CL for far cheaper than retail. I just bought 50bf of s4s SnB black walnut for $150. Beautiful stuff. Maybe even post your own ad. A lot of Mass is rural, so there has to be guys with stockpiles.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

What's SnB?


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## LiveEdge (Dec 18, 2013)

I'm guessing select and better?


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## LordPadriac (Dec 1, 2014)

Yeah so in my defense I have this thing where I just naturally wake up about 5:30 in the morning even if I was up until three and worked 13 hours before that. Also no where near enough coffee before I tried to do math. I knew something didn't seem right. I was multiplying by the number of boards I figured for my example (25) instead of the total board feet in those boards (100). I should have had $250.00 for the rough lumber cost…I am much with the embarrassment.

Despite my trepidation over buying used tools I have checked Western Mass Craigslist for jointers but the only ones I have found in my area are almost 2/3rds the price of a new one from jet or grizzly and at that point I would rather wait and get brand new.


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## RHolcomb (Mar 23, 2010)

For what it's worth, I never have the mill plane my boards or joint an edge and wouldn't even consider having them do all 4 sides unless I was in such a hurry to get a project done that I had no choice. Your DeWalt planer will do the job just fine and there are other ways to joint an edge besides using a jointer. To me, there's just something so much more enjoyable about taking a board that's in it's rough form and making something beautiful out of it. From start to finish.

Actually though, I prefer getting logs and taking them to a sawyer and then sticker drying them. I'm lucky to have that option sometimes. I know all of the tree cutters in my area and have other woodworking friends close by and we use each other for leads on where logs might be available. I also live in Amish Country where Sawyers are all over the place. For instance, a fellow woodworker and I got a lead on a guy that was clearing some property and we ended up with 19 6' long Rock Maple logs. It took three trips with my utility trailer to get them to an Amish Sawyer but it was worth the effort. The sawyer charged us $90 to cut it all into 5/4 and 6/4 boards. We split it up, stacked and stickered it for 18 months and now we each have approximately 500 BF of hard maple that is ready for use that cost me a whopping $45. That comes out to 9 cents per BF! So when I go to a mill and pay whatever they're asking for what I'm buying, I don't even blink because I know I've pretty much got free wood from other ventures.


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## Yonak (Mar 27, 2014)

I'm leery of S4S. First of all, it costs more than S3S. Second, I wonder how it works. I assume you select the boards, pay for total board feet (and don't forget, when adding costs, to consider the unlawful tricks some suppliers pull about "gross" and "net" tallies) and they surface them with no thought about conserving valuable lumber.

Say there's a board with wane or is wider at one end than the other. They will, almost certainly, trim the board so it will be the same width all the way. You could end up with a board that's less than 5", wasting good wood and it may not yield what you plan for.

Also, they will, no doubt, just plane the boards without flattening one side first. That would result in boards such as what Charlie describes. That said, I doubt there's anything you can do about that except deal with it later, unless you can find a custom surfacing service. Select straight and flat wood without edge defects for the best yield.

If you were to get S3S, and you were to cut your own 4th edge, according to the length and width you need on your table saw, could you use your "hobbyist model" jointer to prepare the straight but sawn edge ? Otherwise, with S4S, I wonder how you will get the custom widths you will need for your project. I guess I just don't see how a jointer can be dispensable to a woodworker.

dwd : as Dan Broussard says in his Acronym Glossary (http://lumberjocks.com/topics/40259), BORG is an acronym for Big Orange Retail Giant, but it has come to mean any such store.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

"When money becomes available I will be investing a good Rikon or Laguna bandsaw long before I plunk down the cash on a floor model jointer - much more use to me. I know someone is likely to get up in arms over a jointer being a must but we never had the floor space growing up and found other ways. A good jointer to me is a luxury right up there with a sliding table saw - surely a nice toy to have but unnecessary and for my budget and space there are more useful purchases to come first".

*I'm not getting up in arms just giving you my thought on a jointer. 
*
When you build house what is the first thing you do? You build a foundation for that house. If that foundation is flat, square, straight and level building the rest of the house is much easier and will look better when completed.

When you build furniture and cabinets the best foundation for your projects is flat straight square and equal thickness throughout you stock. This makes everything else easier, laying out and cutting joints etc.

Even using your band saw you want a flat straight surface to put against the fence or table depending what your doing. Flat stock is safer too, help in reducing the possibility of binding.

You may have other way with dealing with this but a jointer is the most efficient way to flatten stock.

Start from a good foundation and work up.


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## LordPadriac (Dec 1, 2014)

I guess the deal with the jointer is we just never had the floor space in any of the family homes or the extra money to blow on a tool that could only do one thing. I wouldn't even have a planer right now except I was unusually flush with cash a couple years ago and splurged. There is plenty of furniture and other woodwork around from my great grandfather, my grandfather and stuff my dad and I made back in the day that I would consider plenty "fine" and no jointer was used or even a possibility. I suppose my tastes could simply be more pedestrian but there are no problems with any of the finished work that I have read are "guaranteed" when not running wood through a jointer first…well there are a few old pieces that have been used less kindly than they could have been that are showing their wear.

A lot of use through the years was made of bandsaws with various shop made sleds/fences and some…err… questionably safe homemade wide belt drum sanders. I remember plenty of rough lumber coming into the shop as a kid from Doane & Williams. I remember the wood came into the shop in all kinds of odd shapes sometimes but my grandfather and father always got straight boards out of it. No jointer so I never saw the need for one. We were always dirt poor so it could be that a jointer was always on their list as well but was never an economic possibility.

A good floor model jointer is on my list now because it will take less floor space, be much safer than some contraption powered by a old motorcycle engine and be considerably easier to use for the results; but at about a grand for a tool that can really only do one thing it is very hard to put it at the top of the list right now - bandsaw still wins out. I have seen a few on my craigslist for five or six hundred so I might take a risk and get a used machine - provided I can get an assembled machine into my basement anyway. There are several Grizzly & Jet models in at the $1000 - $1200 mark brand new that look promising but that would likely be a tax return purchase and likely next year.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> A good floor model jointer is on my list now because it will take less floor space, be much safer than some contraption powered by a old motorcycle engine and be considerably easier to use for the results; but at about a grand for a tool that can really only do one thing it is very hard to put it at the top of the list right now [...]


You can find good used jointers for WAY less than a grand, and they can do quite a bit more than just making boards flat.

Cheers,
Brad


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## LordPadriac (Dec 1, 2014)

@MrUnix Where have you seen a decent stationary jointer for under a grand brand new that wasn't Steel City or Harbor Freight garbage? By decent by the way I don't mean something with all the bells and whistles of the $3500 machines just something that will preform the job of making boards flat accurately without the machine breaking down with moderate use.

As I understand the machine a jointer is primarily for making boards flat quicker and easier than other methods. It can also have bevels which I can do just as easy and quicker on my table saw and rabbets which I can do much easier and quicker with my router either in a table or hand held. Is there some other task a jointer can do or is there some reason doing these on a jointer is a better idea?

I'm really not trying to be obtuse about this but I don't know of any other tasks that a jointer will do aside from flattening stock that I wouldn't rather do on another machine. I'm really trying to get a handle on this.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

Sam, you looking for a new jointer? Jointer basic operation hasn't changed for decades. So while a new one would be cool, there are lots of used ones out there, at least if you're patient.

For $500 (too much in my opinion), you can get this Jet near me: http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/tls/4829769611.html

Near you is this Jet: http://worcester.craigslist.org/tls/4804708973.html
Another Jet: http://westernmass.craigslist.org/tls/4796576888.html
And a Delta: http://newlondon.craigslist.org/tls/4830535348.html


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Don't just think in terms of rough cut. I buy S2S1E (surfaced on two sides and one edge) oak for a couple dollars a board foot at the wholesale outfit. The same at the Borge would be around elven a BF.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> @MrUnix Where have you seen a decent stationary jointer for under a grand brand new that wasn t Steel City or Harbor Freight garbage?


Re-read my post.. never said brand spanking new.. Based on your $1000 figure, I'm guessing that you are looking at new 6" stationary jointers. Nice used ones can be had all day long for a fraction of your target price. Even 8" jointers can be found for significantly less.. this 8" Griz is listed in my area for $650 and the seller claims it's in mint condition (and from the picture, it looks to be true):










or here is a nice Delta 6" jointer for under $200 (asking $190):










Or this nice Delta/Invecta, asking $400:










They are everywhere and easy to find for cheap if you keep your eye out for them. I was like you many years ago, thinking that a jointer was about the last tool I would every need/use.. until I got one. Now I couldn't do half the stuff I make without one (or making myself crazy trying to do it with alternative methods).

Cheers,
Brad

PS: I paid $300 for my current Makita 2030, which is a 12" thickness planer and 6" jointer combo machine. It was in mint condition, didn't need to do anything to it and have been running it just like I got it since purchased (except have the blades sharpened once so far). Had to drive 2 hours to get it, but it was well worth it.


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## rustfever (May 3, 2009)

I use a lot of rough lumber. But I do it all. as I usually cut down the tree, haul to the mill, saw into rough lumber, stack, air dry, machine the lumber into milled boards, mill into special shapes, design the project, build the project, apply the finish and then present to a special person.
There is no better feeling that I have 'Done it All'


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## wbrisett (Dec 21, 2011)

I've been buying from a sawyer for a while. For special projects where I need a certain type of wood the sawyer can't get or doesn't have, I'll buy from one of our specialty lumber places. I'm always amazed at how good of a deal I get from the sawyer. But there are a few downsides to to dimensioning your own lumber from rough cut wood.


Equipment. (This has already been touched on)
Time. 
It does take more time to dimension the wood. It also takes a bit more planning. Since you may or may not get exactly the right cut since there is usually a lot of waste associated with getting the wood squared and flat.
Waste. 
I touched on it previously, but you have to do something with all that waste. I live inside a large metro area. The city has refused to take my trash a few times due to 'construction material' being in the trash. So think about how you are going to get rid of that waste. For things like Oak and Mesquite, I generally have enough folks that BBQ that will take my scraps, but for other less favorable types of wood (Black Walnut), which people don't want in their BBQ pits, I generally put them in an outdoor fire pit I built.

I still see more advantages than disadvantages to buying rough cut wood, but you do have to think about a few things and take those into consideration.

One other note, I've gotten very lucky with one sawyer and have been able to get 'seconds' that he didn't want or have a use for any longer. He sells me those for next to nothing. I picked up a 16 ft trailer worth of various oak, mesquite and cedar for $250 last year. I made my money back with one single clock I built out of that stuff and still have 80% of laying around. So, think about that option as well.

Here's a couple of videos that I found that help too.
This one helps if you don't have all the equipment: 



Here's a guy who shows three methods for squaring up a side: 



Finally, here's a sled similar to what I built for my saw for doing the initial cut:


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## WDHLT15 (Aug 15, 2011)

I saw my red oak at 1 1/8" thick rough. Kiln dry it, then skip plane it to 1". 75% of the boards clean up on both sides and it is still a full 1" thick. 98% of the boards clean up at 15/16". I sell this kiln dried and skip planed red oak for $3.50/BF, half of the box store price, and you still have plenty of wood to work with to get everything perfect for your project.


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

Padriac

I was just curious as to how you straighten/flatten lumber presently. Or maybe you don't…I don't really know as you've been pretty vague in that respect.

If you have no viable way of (truly) truing rough lumber, any cost savings you might find in rough lumber could be totally negated by other, much more time consuming methods since you don't have a jointer, or hand planes.

Keep in mind also that s4s out of a mill doesn't guarantee straight, flat, and square…and even if it does start out that way, may not end up that way after ripping into narrower pieces due to internal stresses.

I'm not trying to discourage you here…just understand that it's not just as simple as saving 3 or 4 bucks a board foot if you don't have a viable means of efficiently dealing with what you're buying.


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## JeffP (Aug 4, 2014)

How do you find local saw mills?

One would think a few seconds of googling or google-maps would turn up some answers, but I have been amazed at how well these businesses are hiding.

I recently moved to the Greensboro NC area. This is supposed to be a really active area for woodworking and furniture making…and yet I find next to nothing when I search online for places to buy hardwoods.

I think I must be searching the wrong way. I'm sure there are some of these businesses in the area. How best to find them?


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

Jeff
I didn't check any of these out at all(I'm in Canada), some may be softwood only, many of them may not sell retail(guess).
Doesn't seem to be any shortage though.
A lot of sheet good dealers sell rough sawn hardwood also.
Somewhere to start anyway…

http://www.yellowpages.com/greensboro-nc/sawmills

http://www.yellowpages.com/search?search_terms=rough+lumber&geo_location_terms=Greensboro%2C+NC


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

I found sawmills in my area (Louisville, KY) by searching for lumber on Craigslist. Several of the local sawmills advertise their lumber there from time to time. It worked well for me.

Here's one that looks promising: http://greensboro.craigslist.org/mad/4765363445.html
One in Statesville: http://charlotte.craigslist.org/mat/4800243194.html


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

double post.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

> @MrUnix Where have you seen a decent stationary jointer for under a grand brand new that wasn t Steel City or Harbor Freight garbage? By decent by the way I don t mean something with all the bells and whistles of the $3500 machines just something that will preform the job of making boards flat accurately without the machine breaking down with moderate use.
> 
> - Padriac Riley


How about brand new under $1000?

http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-x-72-Jointer-3-HP-w-Mobile-Base-Polar-Bear-Series/G0656P


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## JeffP (Aug 4, 2014)

Thanks Charles and Tony. Will check these out and start watching Craigslist. Great suggestion!


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## mroughan (Nov 29, 2013)

> I m in Chicopee, MA. There are very few places near me that matter. By that I mean I drive an hour to and from work in Middlefield, MA which means if a place isn t open on a Saturday it might as well not exist.
> 
> - Padriac Riley


Padriac,

I'm in Hopkinton Ma. and have a couple of unadvertised sawmills in town that usually have air dried pine and red oak in stock but they are hard to find and open when they are open. As for reliable kiln dried hardwood, try Highland Hardwoods in Brentwood NH not too far from where you are.


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## LordPadriac (Dec 1, 2014)

@jmartel It's funny you pulled up Grizzly. I hadn't actually looked at their site directly but I saw this one there yesterday that looks promising.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-Jointer/G0452

I don't often use boards wider than 6" - wider than that is usually glued up or plywood depending on the project - so the extra two or three hundred doesn't make a lot of sense to for me. The pin the holds the guard on the G0452 also comes out so I could cheat if I really needed to face joint a 10" or 12" board.

I have one of their dust collectors but no other tools from them. The specs on the G0452 look pretty good to me but are their tools any good?


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

I covet an 8" jointer because almost all the lumber I get is in the 7-9" width range. But, I don't have 220 and the difference in size is considerable (I have a small shop). My 6" is on wheels. I can use it on pieces under 30" without moving it. I can easily pull it out for longer pieces.


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## LordPadriac (Dec 1, 2014)

Space is also a concern for me. Evenything has to be mobile in my shop so the built in base is a huge plus. Not having to buy or build a seperate base in addition to the cost of the machine and the time already required to assemble and tune it is a huge plus. At just over $600 with liftgate delivery added for the G0452 I can very possibly squeeze that out of my year end bonus or tax return.

@CharlesA How do you think you can't have 220? It's not the first time I've heard someone say that but every house in America that has juice running to it can have 220 circuits installed. If you've ever put a new outlet in yourself you have the skills to add a 220 outlet or you can have an electrician do it. It's absolutely nothing special or out of the ordinary.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

Sam, my shop is detached and 75 feet from the house. The reason to get 220 for me would be for a larger jointer and a cabinet saw. But I don't have room for either. It is a bit of chicken and egg on the 220. It would cost a fair amount to get it installed in the shop, but then I don't have room the tools I would want 220 for. Every big tool I have is on wheels: mortiser, miter saw, jointer, bandsaw, drill press, router table, and table saw. I was going to put wheels on my workbench, but decided to do the Chris Schwarz method and just shove it around-works for me.

One thing on the wheels on the jointer. In my use, have the wheels so I can just pull it away from the wall is perfect. I really like the built-in wheels on the Grizzly, but i wouldn't want to have to do the zig-zag movement to just get it away from the wall sitting perpendicular to the wall.

Looks like a great jointer. Have a good time with it.


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

> @jmartel It s funny you pulled up Grizzly. I hadn t actually looked at their site directly but I saw this one there yesterday that looks promising.
> 
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-Jointer/G0452
> 
> ...


If you're looking at the 452, then look at the 654. Pretty much the same head unit, with different stand, on/off switch, etc. Go with the 654 and save $100. I have the 654 in my shop. Co-planer was spot on from the factory. I really just had to clean off the shipping grease and adjust the infeed and outfeed height and away we went. Oh and the blade guard was a bit stiff. I polished the pin is rides on and it swings perfectly free now.


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## LordPadriac (Dec 1, 2014)

Good eye Charlie.


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## LordPadriac (Dec 1, 2014)

After looking at I think the 654 is a perfect fit for the shop and it still comes in under $600 with lift gate delivery added in. The demo videos for it are like retail training video type bad though. I might be able to get this AND a bandsaw this year.


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

If you're looking at the G0654, check out this assembly video series by Shawn Sealer. He captured his assembly and first use of a G0654 about 2 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbRLPJmxeRLNL0C1GplJq2CY_HffGesr6


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## LordPadriac (Dec 1, 2014)

@paxorion thanks for the box opening vid. It's always nice to be able to see something like a big assembly being done before you do it. Also, your tag name seems very familiar…is it by any chance a reference to a Orion Pax who would go onto become a prime?


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## jimmyjj (Nov 20, 2011)

you should go to Bershire Products in western mass. its worth the $150, and worth the divorce too. totally amazing if you are into wood.


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## LordPadriac (Dec 1, 2014)

It looks like much of Berkshire's stock is pretty expensive even for the domestic stuff. It doesn't look like I would get too much for $150. The guy at Oleksak has much better prices for the stuff I'm likely to ever use a lot of.


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## ric53 (Mar 29, 2014)

I like to use 7/8 & 13/16 thick lumber for a lot of my work. Can't do that with 3/4' BORG lumber. I can plane it slightly thicker than I need and let it stabilize before planning to final thickness. Can't do that with BORG lumber. Also its a lot more satisfying to dimension your own lumber.


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## BasementShop (Nov 3, 2014)

> borg (never heard that before what does it mean?)
> - daddywoofdawg


BORG = Big Ol Retail Giant, a soulless entity that works as a collective hive for no common good it would appear…

From here: http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/borg-26535/

I was reading it as a Big Box Store, but had to look it up for myself.


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## GregInMaryland (Mar 11, 2010)

> borg (never heard that before what does it mean?)
> - daddywoofdawg
> 
> BORG = Big Ol Retail Giant, a soulless entity that works as a collective hive for no common good it would appear…
> ...


And here I thought BORG meant Big Orange Retail Giant.

Greg


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## splatman (Jul 27, 2014)

> And here I thought BORG meant Big Orange Retail Giant.
> 
> - Greg In Maryland


That too
It's a Star Trek reference.


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

> @paxorion thanks for the box opening vid. It s always nice to be able to see something like a big assembly being done before you do it. Also, your tag name seems very familiar…is it by any chance a reference to a Orion Pax who would go onto become a prime?
> 
> - Padriac Riley


You are in the (major) minority that got the reference ;-)


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## LordPadriac (Dec 1, 2014)

@paxorion Age of the Geek man.


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

Now, if only you could clap your hands in a circle and transmutate with alchemy whatever you need for your woodworking ;-) That is, coming from your Full Metal Alchemist avatar.


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## LordPadriac (Dec 1, 2014)

I thought for sure no one was going to get THAT reference here. I think I have more anime in my video collection and Netflix history than live action.


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

> I thought for sure no one was going to get THAT reference here. I think I have more anime in my video collection and Netflix history than live action.
> 
> - Padriac Riley


I should mention my wife encouraged me to start woodworking as an anti-couch potato measure.


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## Garyj78 (Mar 7, 2018)

I live in an area where there are no mills or any rough cut lumber dealers so am stuck with the premilled s4s


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