# Air Filtration? Or just open the doors?



## BroncoBrian (Jan 14, 2013)

Curious if anyone has used the PM1200 Air filter and can say if it really makes a difference. I assume the coating of dust after two days is not avoidable but if it will be a lot better I might want this for that reason.

I have a large 3-car garage that becomes a shop for a week at a time. Am I just as well opening the doors for 3 minutes or will this do better. The issue I have with the doors is that the breeze seems to come into the garage space.

Suggestions? Anyone have anything positive to add to this/


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Bronco-

I think air filtration units are designed for climate controlled shops, or a shop that is sealed, like in the winter.

So, I think it ultimately depends on whether you have a climate controlled shop and that depends the climate where you live.

For example, my shop is in a converted horse barn and decent size but unfortunately I couldn't have as many windows as I would like. I have 8' sliding doors which stay open except when it gets cold.

I live in NE FL and for most of the year my shop doors are open. When its warm you absolutely have to have some air circulation. So for me (and I suspect alot of guys) an air filtration unit is kind of useless.

BTW, I would LOVE to have the breeze come into my shop, but prevailing winds are usually blowing the opposite way ;-) Perhaps you could elaborate on the problem you have with a breeze blowing into the shop.

I have big pedestal fan blowing into the shop and a big drum fan at the other end blowing out.
I do not have a big dust problem and only use a respirator when working with stuff I'm worried about, like Chinese plywood and MDF (which I refuse to use anymore).

How do I dust my shop? I put the exhaust fan on high, put on my respirator, and blow everything off with compressed air. With the fans running, the air is cleared in a matter of a couple minutes.

When the deerfly season started, I built a set of screen panels for the big door. If your issue is things blowing in or insect annoyances, perhaps this would work for you.


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

I am in about the same exact position as Robert, save that I use a one car garage with a full door at one end. I use 20" floor fans with the legs removed, hanging in the air with one facing in and one facing out. I have dust collectors up there also, two Grizzlies. If I run them, they get full, fans off or fans on.

I also clean my shop by turning on the fans, putting on the respirator, and using compressed air blowing it all out onto my wife's car…


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## bbrown (Sep 3, 2008)

I open a door to the outside and put a fan at the top of the basement steps leading down in to my shop. I also put a fan right at the open door to the outside. This draws air from the house and creates a current that takes most of the dust right out the door. I do this when using my planer mainly. Not perfect but it works pretty well. Total cost = $25 for 2 thrift shop fans.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

If I was making the choice, I'd go with the open doors first. If that seemed to be inadequate, then consider an ambient air cleaner.


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## BroncoBrian (Jan 14, 2013)

Great feedback.

Robert - the issues is that dust blows back into the garage when the wind blows, to blowing it out (blower normally) can be tricky, though normally it is fine. I guess I have not done too much at the cold extreme temps and I do have to brag about being in Colorado, no bugs, no humidity, garage stay 50 - 80 degrees and generally very comfortable.

I was curious b/c there are times when cold or raining (hailing) that I would keep the doors down and work with an air system running. Just was not sure how much it would benefit that fine layer that coats everything.

I have a good DC system, a bunch of festool stuff for the dirty jobs, and great tools with good dust collection so the mess on the floor is minimal.

Sounds like opening the door to get the air cleaned out is safe enough not to require an air system on the ceiling?


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

Opening the doors just stirs up dust and recirculates it. The air filter will trap it.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

I have the delta Ambient air cleaner (50-875)... and while it does collect some dust, I find it pretty useless.

Reason _ It is ceiling mounted and centered in the shop.

It does not generated enough circulation to pull the dust through it. Collection at the source e.g. vacuum on your palm sander is more reliable than trying to get the box to pull the suspended dust out of the air before you have a lung full.
I do still run the cleaner…. I am just not convinced it is really doing much but making more noise.

It will "Eventually" clear the air, but it isn't protecting my lungs very well… so I went to a downdraft table for sanding to trap at the source.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00405K5BU/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687462&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0007D2DP0&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=113BB4V3F7EY7EGQFW6V


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## BroncoBrian (Jan 14, 2013)

Dr Dirt

That is the first I have seen of that table. Seems like it would be very effective.


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## AZWoody (Jan 18, 2015)

> Dr Dirt
> 
> That is the first I have seen of that table. Seems like it would be very effective.
> 
> - BroncoBrian


You can get the individual panels from Grizzly to make up your own downdraft table as well.
I built a very large one with a blower from an AC unit and used pegboard but had to really open up a lot of holes to get the airflow to max. Next project is to change out the pegboard for the Shop Fox panels for better grip of the wood being sanded.

With the table though, I can sand with no respirator or face mask and the dust goes straight down.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

> Opening the doors just stirs up dust and recirculates it. The air filter will trap it.
> 
> - bondogaposis


Not if you have an good big exhaust fan, Bondo ;-)


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## cutmantom (Feb 2, 2010)

A ceiling mounted air cleaner should be located of center shop it will create a circular air current in the room


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

> I have the delta Ambient air cleaner (50-875)... and while it does collect some dust, I find it pretty useless.
> 
> Reason _ It is ceiling mounted and centered in the shop.


I've often wondered about this.

Why not put the fan on the floor under a table, for example? 
Doesn't dust always settle to the lowest point?


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

I find my ceiling mounted filter does great. I can see the difference in the air minutes after turning it on.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

Why not put the fan on the floor under a table, for example?
Doesn't dust always settle to the lowest point?

The dust that settles to the floor is not the dust that you are going to breath, it's the finer, lighter dust that stays in the air, that is the dust that a filter will catch and you won't have to breath. Sure it all settles eventually, but the finer particles which are the most harmful will stay air borne for a long time.

Not if you have an good big exhaust fan, Bondo ;-)

Yes, that works, except in the winter if you spend money to heat your shop.


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## AZWoody (Jan 18, 2015)

> Why not put the fan on the floor under a table, for example?
> Doesn't dust always settle to the lowest point?
> 
> The dust that settles to the floor is not the dust that you are going to breath, it s the finer, lighter dust that stays in the air, that is the dust that a filter will catch and you won t have to breath. Sure it all settles eventually, but the finer particles which are the most harmful will stay air borne for a long time.
> ...


Are there actual air filtration units that are rated at .5 micron or better? The ones I see usually are 1 micron at the smallest. That means, then problem particles are just being circulated around the shop and not actually collected.


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## MarioF (Feb 6, 2009)

I do have a PM1200 in the shop, filter is cleaned about twice a month. All I can say is that all that dust blown out of the filter is better there than in my lungs, it definitely does the job.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

Are there actual air filtration units that are rated at .5 micron or better? The ones I see usually are 1 micron at the smallest. That means, then problem particles are just being circulated around the shop and not actually collected.

Yes, Wynn Environmental sells filters for the many of the ambient air cleaners that filter down to .05 micron.


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## BroncoBrian (Jan 14, 2013)

> I do have a PM1200 in the shop, filter is cleaned about twice a month. All I can say is that all that dust blown out of the filter is better there than in my lungs, it definitely does the job.
> 
> - Mario


That is about as good a explanation that anyone should need. It is cheap enough, I might just order it this week.


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## AZWoody (Jan 18, 2015)

> Are there actual air filtration units that are rated at .5 micron or better? The ones I see usually are 1 micron at the smallest. That means, then problem particles are just being circulated around the shop and not actually collected.
> 
> Yes, Wynn Environmental sells filters for the many of the ambient air cleaners that filter down to .05 micron.
> 
> - bondogaposis


That's good to know. I didn't even think of them which should have been the first place to look.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

> I do have a PM1200 in the shop, filter is cleaned about twice a month. All I can say is that all that dust blown out of the filter is better there than in my lungs, it definitely does the job.
> 
> - Mario


I think this would be an interesting experiment.

In addition to the air cleaner… place a small air cleaner like a AP100 on the bench next to you while you run a Random Orbit Sander.

Have the AP100 represent your lungs.









Now sand for an hour without the ceiling unit running…. measure what the AP100 collects near the source that you have "breathed"

Then sand for an hour WITH the ceiling unit running. Then measure what the AP100 collects.

I think the "Artificial lung…. near the source of the dust, will collect nearly just as much with and without the PM1200 running.

As I said, I have a ceiling unit and run it, but I went to source collection because I am not so convinced that i am breathing less dust (saving my lungs) because of that unit. Not sure I would buy again versus a Fein or Festool hepa vac connected to tools.


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## Notw (Aug 7, 2013)

So I have a small (1-car garage) shop and I have dust collection on all my machines for large collection. The issue I have is that about every month I have to take the leaf blower and blow out the shop because of all the fine particles that have landed on everything. Will using a ceiling mounted unit something like what Grizzly sells http://www.grizzly.com/products/Hanging-Air-Filter-3-Speed/G0738 eliminate or greatly reduce this fine dust that coats everything? Thanks


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## BroncoBrian (Jan 14, 2013)

Sounds like the best option is a table net, using a festool ROS with CT vac, an off-centered PM1200, a Delta triangle thingy next to the work, and a respirator. Got it covered.

If the PM1200 is having to be cleaned 2x a month, then it must be pulling some fine dust from the air and there is an obvious benefit.


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## AZWoody (Jan 18, 2015)

I will put some pictures of my downdraft table on projects once I have my shop reorganized but it's run by a large furnace filter and has 2'x8' of suction area for the sanding. I can also leave it on to help clean the shop.

Also, I'm going to make a couple homemade filter enclosures using 6" thick merv 11 or 13 filters in front of a large fan, like one of the ones from Harbor Freight.

Those move a lot of air, and much cheaper and can be positioned around the shop to have move the air better as well.

I use one of those with furnace filter to prefilter the air going into my positive pressure spray booth and I haven't had any problems with dust on anything I've put a spray finish on.
I live on a farm, in the middle of the desert, so dust is a constant around here.


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## exelectrician (Oct 3, 2011)

Open doors on both ends … Breeze blows all the fine stuff outside where it belongs.

My dust collector does the same, after two cyclones the fine stuff goes outside.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

> So I have a small (1-car garage) shop and I have dust collection on all my machines for large collection. The issue I have is that about every month I have to take the leaf blower and blow out the shop because of all the fine particles that have landed on everything. Will using a ceiling mounted unit something like what Grizzly sells http://www.grizzly.com/products/Hanging-Air-Filter-3-Speed/G0738 eliminate or greatly reduce this fine dust that coats everything? Thanks
> 
> - Notw


It will reduce it. But in my 1 car garage I have 12 foot ceilings (2 foot step UP to get in the house).

the unit will collect the finest dust that circulates up to the ceiling (which is the most hazardous to your health)... but most of the dust will settle on the floor and shelves and tools… it is dense enough that gravity is stronger than suction from your dust collector.. e.g. if you hold your shop vac hose 1 foot above the floor…. how much dust does it still pick up. Suction struggles to clean things.

That is why everyone BLOWS out their shops with compressed air or a leaf blower.


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## brain7 (Apr 22, 2015)

Completely agree with Robert. Your reply exhilarate me because I just remembered that I face this disputable question every year. Fortunately my wife proposed to combine these 2 options (air filtration and open the doors). It's hard to argue with wife . But we still fighting against dust…


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