# New Kobalt Table Saw - Buy or not at Black Friday Sale price?



## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

LJs, I thought I'd crowd-source a dilemma I have been debating for the last 24 hours…
Short Version: *If you were in the market for a portable table saw, would a $179 Kobalt-branded table saw that is effectively a Porter Cable PC220TS that actually supports a shop-made ZCI, would it be a worthwhile buy, or should I keep saving for a Bosch 4100?*

Long Version: For the past few years, I've been using a very old Skil 3305 table saw that is long overdue to be trashed. In fact, I've found myself avoiding the table saw because of how aggravating and dangerous (since I can't properly square the saw blade, or guarantee that the fence is parallel) the Skil 3305 has proven to be.

My circumstances requires me to go with ONLY a portable jobsite table saw, as I do all my at-home woodworking outdoors and would have to drag the machine through my house to store between use. I do have access to a pay-per-use shop which is fully loaded with stationary equipment, meaning that any "fine woodworking" I want to do, can be done there, while at-home projects (i.e. making toys for my kids, cabinet boxes to build out an office, or other random projects that don't necessarily require tight tolerances) are currently done mostly with hand-held power tools. While I have been saving my self-imposed monthly woodworking allowance towards a Bosch 4100, I noticed a possible alternative within "budget" right now.

Lowes has just released a new Kobalt-branded table saw I had a chance to play with it in-store this weekend and found it to be both promising and disappointing. My conclusion, is that it has a lot in common with the Porter Cable PC220TS, but blends in elements of the latest Dewalt DWE7480 compact saw to address the PC220TS weak points. Specifically:
1 - (P) It appears relatively easy to access the bolts that table-mount the trunnions, making it easier to square the saw
2 - (D) The fence is appears less agitating (not necessarily better) than the PC220TS
3 - (D) Someone claims to have been able to put in a 3/4" dado stack, and after measuring the arbor in person, I'm highly skeptical of it
4 - (P) The insert allows for slightly more than 1/8th clearance at ONLY the leveling screws, but is practically open throughout the rest of the table span, giving somewhere between 1/4-1/2" clearance for a shop-made ZCIs 
5 - (P) Standard miter t-slots
6 - (D) Short 5.5" table space ahead of the saw blade
7 - (P) The guard and kickback pawls were easy to use
8 - (D) The saw must be used with the included stand (unless modified to mount to a bench)
9 - (D) The riving knife uses a star knob to tighten, and was moderately frustrating to maneuver up and down
10 - (P) All reviews thus far seem to be good, reinforcing my theory that it is at least on par with the PC220TS

At that $279 retail price, I wouldn't consider the saw. However, the Lowes Black Friday sale knocks the price down to $179. My question to the LJ community is, if you were in the market for a portable table saw, should I take the risk and buy this saw so that I can get rid of my Skil 3305 ASAP, allowing me to re-allocate my woodworking budget to materials/projects, and frequent visits to the shop with proper machinery, or should I keep saving and buy the Bosch 4100 in the next 12-18 months?


----------



## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Get the Bosch, better reputation. The only advantage with the Kobalt is if you had a problem in a couple months, it might be easier to return.


----------



## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

First, I wouldn't worry about the dado stack size. I have a "full size" R4512 and don't feel comfortable spinning a full 3/4" 8" stack. I think that is really reserved for 3hp+ cabinet saws. I stick with 5/8 at the most and use multiple cuts with a sled. I tried 3/4 once to cut my ZCI and to plow a miter slot for my router table, and the saw was really struggling.

Also at a 400.00 price difference between that and the Bosch, you don't have much to lose. If you hate it, you can unload this on craigslist for that price all day long. It's reviewed well on the website also.


----------



## JonHitThingWithRock (Sep 7, 2013)

I'll throw in another vote for the bosch, if i were in the same situation, that's what i'd go for. From what i've seen, kobalt stuff tends to be a bit disappointing, not harbor freight disappointing, but still, the bosch is all-around better.


----------



## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

$179 vs $550+. Not saying the Kobalt is a better saw, but I'd consider a 300% ($370) price difference to be an advantage worth some consideration. Which one best suits your needs really depends on usage and budget.


----------



## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

I have a "full size" R4512 and don't feel comfortable spinning a full 3/4" 8" stack. I think that is really reserved for 3hp+ cabinet saws. I tried 3/4 once to cut my ZCI and to plow a miter slot for my router table, and the saw was really struggling.

Oh, nonsense! I routinely run 3/4" dadoes on my old Craftsman 113 with a 1 HP motor and an Avanti 8" dado stack. My saw doesn't struggle with this at all. And I don't feel that it is unsafe (or at least, any less safe than any width dado stack).

Now, ask yourself: If I can't cut 3/4" dadoes, what use is the dado blade? Much of my work uses 3/4" plywood (approximately, that's why they give you them damned spacers with a dado set). If I couldn't do 3/4" dadoes, then it would be a lot harder to make furniture projects.


----------



## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

So far it sounds like the votes are 2 for kobalt, 2 against. And the for's come down to - what would be my usage and the option to re-sell/recoup cost if it turns out to be a bust. This certainly is where I have been leaning towards before I posted on LJ, and thus far, there has been a lot more affirmation of my thought than recommendations against.

I can describe my short (~3 months), mid (~1 year), and long-term (2-3 years) usage.

Short-term - I have a toy kitchen that I am making for my daughter, which will benefit from the rip capacity. Thus far I have been breaking down 3/4" MDF sheets using just a circular saw, and it's been rather interesting trying to plan out the cuts so that I can get close repeatable cuts (e.g. cutting both sheets at once).

Mid-term - Building cabinets boxes for my basement, squaring S3S lumber with a rip-blade

Long-term - Tide me over until I move to a house and can invest in a contractor/hybrid/cabinet saw. I do have access to a pay-per-use shop with stationary equipment (i.e. SawStop ICS) for case-by-case accurate work.


----------



## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

Also, not sure if this is in any way relevant, but it appears the country of origin is likely Taiwan


----------



## jonah (May 15, 2009)

I'd have to recommend against the Kobalt. I've never seen one of those super cheap portable saws that I would even consider using for anything I care about. I'd wait and get the Bosch, or, alternatively, get a track saw and use your router for dados. Check out my review of the Scheppach track saw. There's really nothing I'd do with a portable table saw that I wouldn't rather do with a track saw, honestly.


----------



## RandyTsuch (Nov 1, 2013)

Hi
I'm kind of in the same boat, except I have no table saw right now. I need to buy a little TS so I can store it when not in use, and would carry it outside to use. My actual usage would be less than yours, and my projects are smaller.

I am planning to buy the DW745 from HD, they lowered they price to $300.

The Kobalt looks interesting, and Lowes has a 90 day return policy, so you could try it out, and return if it doesn't work for you. I would only do this if you would actually return it if you don't like it.

Randy


----------



## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I don't buy any tools with the Kobalt brand. The first and last thing I ever bought Kobalt was a small set of screwdrivers. They didn't last a month. I figure if their screwdrivers are cheap then probably a lot of other things
of theirs are as well.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


----------



## Craftsman70 (Jul 31, 2012)

I've been looking at that Kobalt saw also but decided it against it because 1) to remove it from the stand you'd have to cut the metal frame. 2) the fence stinks. The fence is deceiving. You'd think it would be good like the DeWalt, but it is not because the front and back are not connected as they are on the DeWalt. So they don't move in unison and are never kept in alignment with the blade. I found the fence very frustrating after just a fe minutes with the display model at Lowes.


----------



## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

*"I have been breaking down 3/4" MDF sheets using just a circular saw, and it's been rather interesting trying to plan out the cuts so that I can get close repeatable cuts"*

Don't expect that to substantially change with a 50 lb jobsite type table saw available.
A 500lb cast iron cabinet saw with outfeed tables will make a difference.

I have a Craftsman 21833 / Ridgid 4512 and it weighs about 275 lbs and I don't even use it for breaking down sheet goods. I still prefer to use my circular saw. Then I'll follow up with a trim cut on the table saw if it's needed.

What I really want, and plan to build in my new shop is a panel saw.

The Kobalt saw is the same saw as a Porter Cable portable saw, as pointed out earlier. I thought it looked pretty good, but I have seen reviews on it that didn't look too good.

I could see advantages to having a portable, but for my use, not enough advantage to justify more than $500 for one. My HD has a clearance sale right now on the little DeWalt DW745 portable for under $300. Been looking at it pretty hard.


----------



## jonah (May 15, 2009)

I'll say it again: pretty much anything people are doing with those portable table saws can be done easier, more precisely, and safer with a track saw. Use the track saw to break down sheet goods, to rip and to crosscut. Use your router to make grooves and dados.

If the only choice is a portable table saw for logistical reasons, then my vote is no table saw at all. Wait until your situation changes and you can get a more substantial (but not much more expensive) used contractors, hybrid, or cabinet saw. Don't bother mucking around with cheap portable saws - they'll only frustrate you.


----------



## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

crank49 - Mix-up on my part in wording it, I was thinking more the final dimension cuts. I wouldn't dare breakdown sheet goods on a table saw. I was contemplating the Kreg Rip-cut

jonah - A track-saw is on my to-buy list, but not until a few other items are checked off.


----------



## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

Craftsman
1. Yes the stand is an integral part of the saw frame, which is a big down, but from what I saw in store, some creative manipulation could make it "stand-alone-ish" without major (cutting) modifications
2. The fence and guide rails certainly aren't as nice as the Dewalt's, but I didn't sense too much frustration with it while in-store, while making sure my 2 year old didn't steal anything. Will have to play with it again


----------



## Craftsman70 (Jul 31, 2012)

Paxorion,

Maybe it was the way my demo model was put together,but I found the fence worse than other fances because when I slid the fence I had to move the front and rear into possition and it was easy to have the back differ by 1/16 to an 1/8th of an inch. Let me know if you find differently.


----------



## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

Craftsman70 - I'll definitely be more on the lookout. I vaguely recall I had the fence locked front and back, before I tried to slide the rail. Or perhaps I pulled the extension?...either way, it doesn't have the nice rack and pinion setup on the Dewalt.

Thanks everyone for your feedback thus far. It has given me some good follow-up points to look into when I stop by Lowes tonight.


----------



## jonah (May 15, 2009)

It isn't currently available at the price I got it at ($130), but for the same $180 you're thinking of paying for a chincy table saw I got my track saw and a very nice Freud blade. I feel much more comfortable making final dimension cuts on that thing than I did on my old table saw (a Makita bench top one).

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/3616


----------



## BentheViking (May 19, 2011)

I have the PCB220TS and I will say that the throat plate on the Kobalt definitely looks like an improvement, however I don't know if I'd trade that for not being able to take it off the stand. Most of the other parts seem equal. And while either saw is a big step up from no saw, if I was re-selecting I would totally go with the dewalt due to the accuracy of the fence. I will check out this saw next time I'm at Lowes and getting back to what was originally asked I will say that at $150 on black friday thats a great deal and a much better saw than what is typically available as a new saw at any mass retailer for that price range.


----------



## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

jonah - The saw you reviewed is the same as the Grizzly Track Saw which I haven't fully decided if it's the one i will one-day buy. Seems promising for a hobbyist

On another note, I had a chance to take a look at the saw again tonight after work and want to add 2 new observations:
1 - the arbor length seems to be the same as on the Bosch 4100
2 - the dual-locking fence shifts once one side is locked, and squaring the fence with each adjustment will get very old


----------



## unclebenny (Apr 5, 2013)

Seems to me a table saw with a fence that doesn't square on its own EVERY time you lock it down is not only junk, but just plain dangerous. Make sure your health insurance premiums are paid up cause that sucker is gonna kick.


----------



## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

unclebenny - Now that raises another question. In the class of portable table saws, the only 3 that I have found with a fence that doesn't shift when locking down, is the Bosch 4100, Ridgid 4510, and the high-end Dewalts. I'm curious about the mechanics behind that, if it has to do with the gauge of material in used for the fence, the way it's assembled, or any other factors. Sounds like another forum topic.


----------



## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

All, thanks for the input you shared. I think my final decision will be to NOT buy the saw for two primary reasons:
1 - While the saw offers MANY advantages over other sub-$300 saws (ZCI potential, table, and dado capacity), the rip fence seems to be too much of a compromise, and I anticipate I will quickly regret my decision if I were to pull the trigger
2 - While the price is very attractive at $180, and being ~$400 less than the Bosch, I feel that I would be better served saving the money to buy it right for my current circumstances. Also in the running, are the Ridgid R4510 and the Dewalt DWE7491RS. A new forum topic will likely spawn as I get closer to buy-time in 6-9 months.


----------



## Tedstor (Mar 12, 2011)

I think you're making the right call. I have a Craftsman 113. It had the chintzy stock fence when I bought it. Having to futz around to keep the fence square made the machine 100% unenjoyable to use. I scoured the internet for remedies to fix/improve the fence, and I tried them all. Nothing worked. 
I finally caught the Delta T2 fence on sale for $160 shipped. Installed on my saw and the difference was night/day. 
Moral: No table saw is better than a bad table saw. And IMO, the fence is the biggest difference between a good and bad table saw. 
As an aside, keep your eyes on the DC Craigslist. I see those portable table saws all the time.


----------



## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

Tedstor - Thanks, I share the sentiment to kept my eyes open on craigslist, but have never quite found a saw I felt ready to pull the trigger on yet. Too many bottom of the barrel saws in our neck of the woods.


----------



## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

"If the only choice is a portable table saw for logistical reasons, then my vote is no table saw at all. Wait until your situation changes and you can get a more substantial (but not much more expensive) used contractors, hybrid, or cabinet saw. Don't bother mucking around with cheap portable saws - they'll only frustrate you."

I gotta disagree here. If I waited until I could get something other than a portable saw, I'd be waiting probably another 10 years until we buy a new house. I don't want to go a decade without a table saw. I have the Bosch 4100 and I love it. I'm not delusional and I don't expect it to behave like a cabinet saw. Once set up, it works very well. I've built a set of cabinets, a kitchen island, a chest, closet organizer, etc with this saw, and never have ad any issues with the fence not staying square or moving. I break all of my sheet goods down with a circular saw on a home-made guide. The left side and outfeed extensions are a must have, it's a bummer they didn't come with the saw, they run about $50 for the pair online. I can run a Freud 8" stacked dado at 3/4" no problem. The only frustrating part I find about this saw is the dust collection, it sucks (no pun intended).

If you're looking for a saw to last a short while until you upgrade again, give the Kobalt a shot, and understand what shortcomings it has and live with them. If you're looking for a more long-term saw that fits a tiny footprint like mine, I would spend the money for the Bosch. It easier too put up with the annoyances of a lesser saw if you know you'll be replacing it in the near future.


----------



## JLC44 (Nov 20, 2013)

I am new both to this forum and to woodworking. I found this thread because I was looking for info on the Kobalt after the black friday deal was announced. As I am just getting started I have no idea what my usage will be, mainly at this point I want the ability to do projects. My real shot at getting a table saw is as a christmas gift, saving up will be a long wait. That's the backstory.

I know the fence is the weakness, as it is for most budget table saws. So my thought is this, get the Kobalt, and if I see it is that much of a problem go with the Delta T2 fence system or ROUSSEAU PortaMax-Jr 2600 when I am able.

Not ideal but I think better than waiting a long time. Wanted to get some more knowledgeable opinions. Thanks


----------



## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

BinghamtonEd - I'm in the same mindset that delaying buying a table saw for 10+ years (which would be my case) is not an acceptable answer. I think jonah's point to get a track saw instead does have merit, as I do have access to shops with good tools.

JLC44 - I think I'm just slightly further down the path you are walking. I bought the black friday table saw special from Lowes back in 2009, thinking it would be a good saw for home renovations. The next year, I end up picking up the woodworking bug, and struggled with it when making a coffee table. Since then, I've had the good fortune of finding a shop where I could use cabinet saws to realize how important the table saw fence is. Despite all of the positives I found, the degree of compromise for the fence became a non-negotiable to me. Maybe if I were still focused on in the realm of home renovations, but not for woodworking. I will also add that the thought of upgrading the fence did pop up in my head, but i don't anticipate it will be easy to hack the saw to fit a Delta T2, and I don't believe the dimensions allow for easy drop-in to a Rousseau, thanks to the funky rail and outfeed extension.


----------



## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

It may be just me and Jonah, but these small job-site saws scare the daylights out of me. They are not as portable, but moving up to an iron "contractor" size saw gives me a far better feeling. ( I have the Rigid which is an Emerson, same as Craftsman) I had a little Skill and sold it. Played with the Dewalt which was better, but if you need a real saw, then… you need a real saw. The Dewalt cost more than a used contractor saw. I did have a friend that liked the old OBE Rayobi sliding table saw. It was a light job-site thing. A used real saw is twice the price of these light weight ones, but far cheaper than a visit to the hospital. I made it by for years with an 8 foot piece of 2 inch angle iron and my cheap Sears 7 1/4 saw. If I needed cabinentmaker perfect, I trimmed with my router. ( and the angle iron)


----------



## JLC44 (Nov 20, 2013)

Paxorion - What I am looking at is not the Rousseau stands that you drop the saw into, it is a replacement top with rails and fence. So take off the kobalt top and rails and replace with the Rousseau. It says will fit any saw with top up to 22" x 26-5/8" which the Kobalt fits in that size. I have no idea about it just found it online and thought it might be a good way to make the Kobalt better.


----------



## ardoc (Nov 20, 2013)

delta and porter cable,and ridgid have some nice bigger table saws between 400 and 600.they have caster wheels that make ground contact with a foot pedal so you can move them around easily. Have you consider those options?


----------



## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

Ardoc - yes I have, but storage in my house is not possible so they were quickly ruled out.


----------



## jonah (May 15, 2009)

"I gotta disagree here. If I waited until I could get something other than a portable saw, I'd be waiting probably another 10 years until we buy a new house. I don't want to go a decade without a table saw. I have the Bosch 4100 and I love it. I'm not delusional and I don't expect it to behave like a cabinet saw. Once set up, it works very well. I've built a set of cabinets, a kitchen island, a chest, closet organizer, etc with this saw, and never have ad any issues with the fence not staying square or moving."

I think this is absolutely fine, but personally, I'd go the other direction and use a track saw, router, and small router table instead of a portable table saw. With those three tools you can do anything you can do on a portable table saw, and in most cases do it quicker, easier, more accurately, and most importantly safer.

Thanks to track saws, the idea that you absolutely need a table saw in a workshop is no longer true. You can get table saw-qualty-cuts from a portable tool now.


----------



## BentheViking (May 19, 2011)

idk Jonah. I've got a little but not tons of track saw experience and i'd wonder how you'd rip narrow parts


----------



## jonah (May 15, 2009)

I just use a piece of scrap the same thickness as the piece I want to cut to support the track. So long as everything is secure and doesn't move, it works fine.


----------



## IRONCOBRA (Nov 30, 2013)

Ok, I purchased the kobalt table saw yesterday and finally got around to ripping some Lumber today. The fence is actually really nice. It has locks on both sides and when adjusting from the front of the fence it lines up perfectly for me every time. Also it is attached to the extention rails which move with exact precision, so you only have to align the fence once and use the extention slides to adjust. I have a dewalt which is very nice, but to compact. This saw has been a gem to use so far. I hope you scouped it up while you could. I use this saw to build custom recording studio desks and equipment racks in expensive homes and studios. Also used to build sound proof recording booths. Excellent buy. I only added an 80 tooth blade and removed the blade guard and was ripping with excellent precision in minutes. Extremely easy to put together.


----------



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

You shouldn't expect Lowes or any other big box store to drastically discount the higher quality tools. Chances are the Kobalt saw won't be a great saw. Do they discount the Bosch saw? Probably not. Marketing stragedy is to get rid of merchandise that doesn't move quickly. Remember there will always be sales. Save your money, but that's NOT what the merchandiser wants you to do.


----------



## IRONCOBRA (Nov 30, 2013)

Not necessarily the case. I have purchase many a Dewalt, Bosch, and Makita tool at 30%+ off their regular prices during sales at lowes and Homedepot. I actually just got 3 Dewalt 20vt Max drills and impact wrenches for 33% off. I also got a Dewalt Air compressor last year for around the same discount. If when shop at the right time you can get all brands highly discounted. I picked up a Milwaukee chop saw about a year ago for 25% off.


----------



## Orlando (Dec 2, 2013)

@ Ironcobra - what are you using for dado blades and dado throat plate?? I cant seem to find an answer anywhere.


----------



## IRONCOBRA (Nov 30, 2013)

Im using a Freud 8" dado blade. The widest Ive set it at is 1/2". The arbor is 1" but only slightly more than 1/2" is usable. Ive had zero problems and it cuts like butter. The throat plate is homemade. I didnt even try finding one. I made it out of 18awg stainless steal I had laying around the shop.


----------



## Orlando (Dec 2, 2013)

Iron - I wouldnt know where to begin with making a throat plate out of stainless … and it appears the throat plate opening will not accommodate (too thin) something made from wood or similar product .


----------



## IRONCOBRA (Nov 30, 2013)

You could make it out of 1/8 or 1/16" ABS Plastic and then simply reinforce the back of it with a few scraps of metal. Amazon has 12×12" sheets of ABS plastic cheap. You can cut it with a exacto knife or even a router or dremel. Then simply glue a few cut pieces of Aluminum trim channel to the bottom for strength. If the links below don't work, you can go to Amazon and search for "1/8 or 1/16 ABS Plastic Sheet". Then go to Lowes and search for "Steelworks 8-ft L x 1/2-in W x 1/2-in H Aluminum Trim Channel".

Hope that helps.

http://www.amazon.com/Install-Bay-ABS116-Universal-16-Inch/dp/B0049MWXM8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1386002473&sr=8-4&keywords=abs+plastic+sheet

http://www.lowes.com/pd_55979-37672-11377_4294684419__?productId=3058181&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo=


----------



## Orlando (Dec 2, 2013)

Could I …. remove existing stock throat plate, put in a dado blade set, c-clamp a piece of 1/4 ply to top of the entire saw table, raise the blade and cut through ply and then now use the 1/4 ply as both the table top and throat plate. I guess I would then have to make a rip fence and temporarily attach it to 1/4 ply.

Your thoughts?


----------



## Woodratte (Jan 15, 2014)

I give a big thumbs up for the Kobalt table saw #KT1510, and completely agree with the comments by Ironcobra. I am very happy with the one I bought to replace an old POS I've been using for years. My needs in a table saw are mainly portability and good power for ripping lumber on the job in new construction and remodels with reasonable accuracy. This includes ripping strips off 4'x 8' sheets of plywood and various exterior finish panels, lap siding, etc.

So right up front I am not using this as a cabinet maker. If I were, I probably wouldn't be satisfied with anything less than a big Jet shop model which of course is a completely different animal that would not be suitable for my purposes. In my younger days when I needed a table saw on the job I hauled around an old Craftsman full size shop table saw that required 3 men to load and unload.

After assembling this Kobalt, I really like how the stand works, and precise adjustment of things such as the scale indiator and the blade angle are easy to do. With the fence positioned correctly in its track, it slides smoothly and locks down squarely in relation to the blade.

Someone mentioned having a problem with the fact that the front and rear fence locks work independently, but I like it this way. I slide the fence to the desired width on the scale indicator and push the front lock down, then with tape measure in my left hand, I check clearance for the tooth breaking the plane at the rear of the blade to verify it matches the front scale indicator, then push down the rear lock down with my right hand. This takes all of 5 seconds, and as long as the front and rear measurements are within 1/64th of an inch, it's close enough for me. If the front and rear fence clamps locked in unison, it might be easier, but if it was out of square, then you'd have other adjustment or issues to sort out.

New as it is, just doing a few test rips and cuts with scrap lumber, this saw performs smoothly and doesn't feel cheap at all. Next week it's going to get much more of a workout ripping 2 inch lumber for a remodel.

Too bad this saw isn't made in USA, but at least it is a product of Taiwan, not China. I will spare you that whole discourse. Small things mean a lot.


----------



## jonah (May 15, 2009)

The fence mechanism and manipulation you describe - in addition to sounding really dangerous - sounds only slightly more convenient than clamping a piece of wood to the table top front and rear.


----------



## IRONCOBRA (Nov 30, 2013)

Actually it is a very safe system. One the fence is clamped square to the table (its very accurate by itself), you simply slide the table extension out to adjust the fense. Its dead on accurate and works better than most systems. Very well designed.


----------



## IRONCOBRA (Nov 30, 2013)

Also, to clarify the fence does have to locks (front and back) but the back lock just ensures pressure from the lumber being cut doesnt move it out of alignment. It works much better than systems found on saw anywhere near the price.


----------



## AGCILANTRO (May 23, 2014)

@IronCobra @WoodratteI am considering this saw as well, as my first table saw. My intention is to make some bee hive bodies, stands, bottom boards and tops, and work my way into some simple furniture making. This would involve the usual type of cuts, including using a Dado set. I am also weighing the Bosch GTS1031, on sale at HD for $399 without a stand. Are you still satisfied with the Kobalt?


----------



## JLC44 (Nov 20, 2013)

I got the Kobalt during the black friday sale and have no complaints. Used it to build my router cabinet as well as other smaller projects. That being said if I was buying one right now I would choose the Dewalt DWE7480 without stand at Lowes for $329, love the rack and pinion fence, and 24.5" rip capacity compared to the Bosch 18".


----------



## IRONCOBRA (Nov 30, 2013)

I love it. I have a full size cabinet saw but it won't fit where I need it so I use this. I have made at least 2 dozen end grain cutting boards with rock maples, 4 large shoe racks, 4 writing desks, several chairs and outdoor rockers, a entertainment center, as well as 6 end tables. Plus quite a few smaller projects. This saw is great and has never bogged down or even gotten close. I still highly recommend it. No complaints at all. I do not prefer the Dewalt or Bosch to this saw.


----------



## AGCILANTRO (May 23, 2014)

@JLC44 Thanks for your input. I was looking at the DeWalt as well. Looks like a great saw, except I want to be able to do cuts with a Dado blade, and I don't think the DeWalt can take a Dado blade. The Bosch can work with a Dado blade, but the cost of the saw and stand get up close to $500. I will be working out of half of the garage, and building my workshop from scratch, so I would like to get a router, bits, good saw blades, some squares, clamps and other necessities. The $200 difference can go a long way towards getting me up and running. The Kobalt takes a Dado blade, has a 30" rip capability, and, although not on a quality level of the DeWalt or Bosch, will be a good starting saw for me, based on feedback here and reviews.
That being said, I am open to suggestions.


----------



## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

If cost if the motivating factor in buying the Kobalt, buy a good used full size saw with a belt drive induction motor instead. You get so much more saw in the end, with so much more potential for updates and growth. I see older full size contractor saws in my region for ~ $100 on a regular basis.


----------



## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

I feel like I need to chime in since I started this thread… I have a Dewalt DWE7491, and even though it's still a "secondary" saw for me (when I can't or don't want to go to the shop I frequent and use the cabinet saw), here is an example of two driving factors made me splurge over the Kobalt:

Fence Fence Fence. The fence can make or break the user experience, and the Kobalt does a admirably (bad) job of copying the Dewalt rack and pinion setup (I was told Dewalt has a patent on it). The problem is that you need to "realign" the fence every time you set it. On my Dewalt, I can quickly adjust or micro-adjust my fence and know that it's still parallel to the blade.
The table size is much bigger. Two extra inches before the blade may not sound like much it does make a big difference in the cut quality for longer boards

There are many other likes that I've found after using it. For one thing, the release lever to swap guard to riving knife is amazing. Also, I'm shocked at how stable the saw is with just the over-sized rubber feat. I have it on my split outdoor work bench, and that thing does NOT move when I run it without bolting it to the table.


----------



## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

JLC44, where did you hear that the Bosch has a rip capacity of 18"? I own the 4100 and the rip capacity is 25". The DeWalt is a great saw as well, but I can assure you the Bosch does not have a max rip capacity of 18".


----------



## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

JLC44 is referring to the GTS1031


----------



## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

Ah, OK, my apologies. I thought he was referencing the 4100 you mentioned in the OP as an alternative.


----------



## JLC44 (Nov 20, 2013)

@agcilantro you are correct about the Dewalt not being able to use a dado, glad you noticed, I had forgotten about that. So with those choices I would choose the Kobalt again if I was buying right now. As I said I am very happy with mine.

Yes I was referring to the gts1031 that agcilantro had mentioned.


----------



## AGCILANTRO (May 23, 2014)

@Paxorion thanks for mentioning your experience with the Dewalt DWE7491. I didn't mean to hijack your thread here, but rather was looking for input from those who have worked with these saws.


----------



## IRONCOBRA (Nov 30, 2013)

I'm not sure why anyone would think that the Kobalt fence is hard to work with. I have only had to adjust the fence 1 time in the last 20 projects because I simply lock it to the side extention slide out and make my adjustments using that. I have a YouTube video showing what I am talking about. It is far quicker and more effective than the Dewalt saw (which I also own) and easier to use. The stand is equally as stable and even easier to setup and collapse. I firmly believe the Kobalt is a better saw than the Dewalt and the reviews on Lowe's. Com back that up.


----------



## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

I'm happy with it. Will try to post a review in the next few days


----------



## thetinman (Mar 10, 2014)

..


----------



## jsone (Apr 28, 2011)

@jlc44 and @ironcobra. What ripping blades have you used on the Kobalt saw? I was hoping you guys would have some experience and/or advice on full kerf vs thin kerf blades for the Kobalt saw. Does the saw seem to bog down with full kerf blades?

Wondering how the Freud LM72M010 would perform on the saw? It's a full kerf blade. I have used and really liked that blade on my (now sold) cabinet type saw. I was wondering if that blade would work okay on the portable Kobalt saw. There is another Freud thin kerf ripping blade (LU87R010), Freud claims works well on portable saws. I am concerned about blade deflection using the thinner kerf/plate blade.

I need to be able to rip up to 8/4 hardwoods.

Also, can you tell me what the blade kerf limits stamped on the riving knife are? The online manual mentions limits but does not state the values. I ordered the Kobalt saw tonight but won't be home to unbox it for a couple weeks and wanted to get a good ripping blade ordered ahead of time.


----------



## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

A 1/8" full kerf blade is 33% wider than 3/32" thin kerf, and will put considerably more strain on the motor. Even if the LM72 cuts seemingly well, it's still more strain than the LU87 or comparable (Marples, Infinity, CMT) will pose. I don't know that the Kobalt's riving knife thickness is, but it'd be unusual for a saw of that class to not accept 3/32" TKs. Those universal motors don't have the torque that your cabinet saw had, or even a hybrid or contractor saw. I'd think even the LU87 will labor with that saw in 8/4" hardwoods depending on what it is, but it should do it. If your wood is flat and straight prior to ripping, the LU87, or a comparably quality blade, shouldn't have noticeable deflection unless there's some lateral pressure…or if your ripping sessions are long enough to cause a lot of heat. I've ripped 12/4" with good 24T TKs without deflection. Even if you do get some, I'd rather have a little blade flutter than the motor overheat. Keep the blades clean and sharp, and go at a reasonable pace.


----------



## AGCILANTRO (May 23, 2014)

I bought this saw about a month ago. I have used it for some bee hive boxes and to make some jigs. I have been using the stock blade so far, but I plan to get a dado blade and a better blade for finer work. Good experience so far. The fence works well once it is locked to the table and aligned. I plan to make a good crosscut sled as well.
My only complaint is the depth of the table. It is a bit short for crosscuts, and I would like a few more inches before encountering the blade using the miter gauge.


----------



## shawnmasterson (Jan 24, 2013)

I just want to say the 4100 has been the saw they brought to the last 2 jobs I trimmed on. The saw seemed to have plenty of power, had nice up and down movement, and beveled smoothly, but the fence is trash. the movement had no slide. I cleaned and waxed and tried to adjust it but no dime. It is the worst fence I have ever used.


----------



## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

Shawn I'd say maybe it was that particular saw. Maybe the fence wasn't trash but had been trashed. I've never heard complaints about it not moving that weren't solved by maintenance. The fence on mine glides like its on ice.


----------



## Aggiecowboy24 (Mar 8, 2017)

Ok so i see that this post was started a long time ago but i have the same problem. I am considering the kt1015 over the dewalt 7480 because of the price. At the current price i can still save some monet to purchase the Incra ts ls fence system the 7480 has a smaller surface area in the front so even mounted to a table of some kind may not accept the fence upgrade. I don't have the ability to drop $600 on the delta 725 but i really want a saw with a reliable fence. A large majority of my budget is coming from gift cards so craigslist is not a good option for me either.


----------



## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

> Ok so i see that this post was started a long time ago but i have the same problem. I am considering the kt1015 over the dewalt 7480 because of the price. At the current price i can still save some monet to purchase the Incra ts ls fence system the 7480 has a smaller surface area in the front so even mounted to a table of some kind may not accept the fence upgrade. I don t have the ability to drop $600 on the delta 725 but i really want a saw with a reliable fence. A large majority of my budget is coming from gift cards so craigslist is not a good option for me either.
> 
> - Aggiecowboy24


If I'm understanding correctly, you want to buy a low end Kobalt plastic bench saw to save enough money so you can put an Incra fence on it? I'd suggest thinking that one through a bit more. It's a great fence, arguably the most precise available, but is > $400…. plus it's way more fence than either of those saws. I'm also not sure how well that fence will fit either of your saw choices unless you build a workstation around the saw, then mount the fence to the work station. In the end, the saw will always be the weak link in that setup. Whatever precision you could gain with the fence would likely be lost in blade runout and table flex. Not me, not now…..if you need the precision of an Incra fence, buy a good saw with decent bones that'll last, that can be upgraded, and that you can grow with.


----------



## Aggiecowboy24 (Mar 8, 2017)

Thanks for the great perspective. I really haven't thought too much about the longevity of the saw. Automatically assumed it would last forever. Do you think it would be worth it if i went with a less expensive fence or are you saying that i shouldn't go jobsite at all? I need a saw that is portable right now due to the fact that i do most of my work outside in the back yard. But i may be able to clear some things out and make a space large enough for a good hybrid saw. It would still take me a few months to save up enough. What is your opinion of the delta 36-725?


----------



## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

The best aspect of a portable saw is that you can lug it from place to place without getting a hernia….otherwise a good full size saw with a belt drive induction motor has a bunch of advantages over a portable. Sometimes there's just not room for a full size saw, so a smaller saw can make sense if that's the case. The DW is pretty well regarded as portable saws go….so are the Bosch and Ridgid.

When the 36-725 first came out it looked fairly promising. It does have the two-piece front rail, which is not as desirable as a single, but doesn't mean it's going to be problematic….aside from the two-piece rail, the fence itself is pretty decent IMO. Many people have been happy with their 36-725, but I've started to read more about obscure things breaking over time or not working properly….add to that reports of poor customer service, and poor parts availability, and now I'm more hesitant to recommend it. It could be great if you want to take a shot. It does have a warranty and return privileges. The Ridgid R4512 and Cman 21833 have had some systemic issues with alignment problems since introduced a few years ago, but rumor has it that those have been resolved….one of those might be a better choice than the Delta now in this price range, but those probably aren't compatible with your gift cards. None of these saws are available without the fence, so I'd at least give the stock fence a good go before adding an aftermarket fence…..that can always be added later if deemed necessary.

You'd probably attract more replies by making a new post. It'd be good to get some other opinions and options.


----------

