# Healthcare In America



## caboxmaker (May 3, 2017)

Healthcare in America. Are you for or against the government helping out? Now, before you answer I'd like you to put yourself in the shoes of a person who does not have healthcare. There are several reasons a person could be without healthcare. Their employer doesn't offer it. They are self-employed. Or, they are unemployed. Although the poor and unemployed have access to medicaid. 
So, if you're employed and not yet 65 years old your choices are reduced to a single option. Although retired military veterans have access to Tricare and are taken care of. Obamacare (ACA) offers healthcare options to those without. 
I think everyone in America should have access to healthcare. Obamacare is perfect for those that aren't offered coverage by their employers or are self-employed. How many of you have signed up for ACA coverage and what do you think about it? Are there any folks out there who have refused coverage and pay the penalty? What options, short of moving to Canada, have I left out?
Please don't let this discussion devolve into a political or religious debate.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

> Please don t let this discussion devolve into a political or religious debate.
> 
> - caboxmaker


Funny, this belongs in the joke section…


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

One gets confused between Insurance and Health Care.

ACA belongs in the joke section as well.


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## caboxmaker (May 3, 2017)

waho6o9, how would you insure that all Americans get healthcare? Give us your plan.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Competition lowers prices and increases quality. Get the public sector out of the private sector.


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## caboxmaker (May 3, 2017)

waho6o9, ACA aside for the moment, what would your plan be? If there was money to be made as you say then the private sector would be all over it.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Enjoy the day Sir.


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## Mike54Ohio (Feb 2, 2017)

I have to say-this is a bold topic to hope for rational conversation in such a polarized environment. 
That said, I will attempt some commentary hopefully without too much madness.

I think some confusion over what exactly the ACA is has caused the polarization of opinion on its real purpose. Access to healthcare is vital for any society and I agree with the OP that it s/b available to everyone equally. Many people who are employed full-time do not have the benefit of healthcare to them if the employer is a small business, etc so ACA helps fill that gap.

My biggest disagreement with the naysayers for ACA using comments such as confusing the public sector with the private sector are victims of disinformation regarding the insurance system.

The ACA facilitates the individual persons access thru the public system and directs them to the various *Private* insurers thru which the policy for healthcare is chosen. The federal government is not supplying the coverage, private, publicly traded companies insure us.

Now before the flaming begins, I can speak from experience here. At age 63, and now not working, I have to insure myself since Medicare hasn't kicked in yet. Without ACA. nobody (insurer wise) would take me and my wife on as a risk without the ACA.

Sure my insurance costs me a fortune every month (~2000) but it beats *no insurance* and the reason the cost is so high is that the insurance pool of insured individuals is not large enough to offset my age/risk ratios in the insurance industry algorithms with enough younger enrollees less likely to file a claim.

So wrapping this up: throw all the stones you want, but until we as a country start catching up with the rest of the industrialized world in healthcare, we will continue to pay more for less essentially.

Nobody complains that the state they live in requires insurance to drive a car and yet these same people scream bloody murder that requiring health insurance is a violation of their freedom.

I don't get it

my 2 cents


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## Fresch (Feb 21, 2013)

It is not the governments job to provide healthcare. 
Taking money from one person and giving it to another is socialism, I could use a table saw… send me yours.
When students protesting for obamacare were asked in using the same ideas would they share their 4.0 grade with others lowering it to a 3.0, answer no way I worked hard for that!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

> waho6o9, ACA aside for the moment, what would your plan be? If there was money to be made as you say then the private sector would be all over it.
> 
> - caboxmaker


Maybe they are. Interested to see where this initiative takes things.


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## Mike54Ohio (Feb 2, 2017)

> It is not the governments job to provide healthcare.
> 
> - Fresch


So, we should also eliminate Medicare for those over 65? It is a government funded insurance plan. I surely wouldn't want to be responsible for eliminating the insurance coverage for the elderly and disabled which is what this statement says.

And now I will shut up because this will go nowhere fast if I continue-logic and reasonable conversation is not going to work and this is not the appropriate place to engage in this any further.

Thanks for listening anyway


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

Buy, I should just keep my mouth shut on this one, but what the heck, here goes…

Mike in Ohio says: Quote - My biggest disagreement with the naysayers for ACA using comments such as confusing the public sector with the private sector are victims of disinformation regarding the insurance system.

The ACA facilitates the individual persons access thru the public system and directs them to the various Private insurers thru which the policy for healthcare is chosen. The federal government is not supplying the coverage, private, publicly traded companies insure us. - Unquote.

First off, let me clarify myself by saying I am retired Navy, a combination of 9.5 active years and 12 reserve years, so my Tricare kicked in at an opportune time, when I hit 60. That is close to where Mike is now, so I can feel his pain, but I did sign on the dotted line for 21 years that I would obey my superior officers up to and including giving my life for this country. It is something that I did willingly, wantingly, and have no regrets. For that I get a small pension monthly, and a great medical plan. I'm good with that.

But for those who took a different path, one of a normal citizen of this country, I feel that you have to do common sense planning in your life. I know things happen, adversity hits, etc., but with some planning and future thought, (and there are a lot of people out there who can help you with this), a person should not end up 63 years old, no insurance, and have to pay $2000 a month to a government sponsored plan that is losing millions and billions a dollars a year, with companies bailing out like rats leaving a sinking ship.

And that is where I disagree with Mike from Ohio. The companies he talks about being "referred to" or the government website "facilitating people to" these companies misses the fact that these companies were subsidized by the government, still lost tons of money, and are bailing out faster than you can say "Insurance Coverage". And now that the mandate penalty has been repealed, I predict that it will crash soon enough, or become so expensive that no one can afford it, at least those who want it. So what to do?

There are other options.
If you consider yourself a Christian, you might look into Medi-Share, which is a community of Christians who share their medical bills through an even payment plan, and it has a few hundred thousand members, so something must be working. Medical Cost Sharing is another, same philosophy, and there are others. Non-religious co-ops also do exist.

There are trade organizations where if you have a service you can offer, you can trade your service for a medical service. I know a professional musician who is on this, and although not foolproof, it does seem to work for him and his wife. He did have to travel 90 minutes for a dentist, but he got one, free of charge but cost him points that he puts into the database performing for points for his medical plan.

I just don't think the US Government is equipped to offer health insurance. Most politicians when asked if they would go on the ACA, evaded the question, or said yes then didn't do it because they have a similar Tricare plan such as the military has. I also think there are ulterior motives involved, politicians always have personal agendas, and overall the result is never that good for the citizen of the country. No matter the party, or affiliation, it all smells in the end and the US Citizen takes the hit. This type of insurance, it also goes a long ways in explaining why Canadian citizens come across our borders to get operations that are not available for months or years in their own country, and may result in death while waiting.

As Gerald Ford once said, "The US Government can't make a six-pack of beer for less than $50 bucks." 
Our current insurance plan offered by the ACA is a good example of that.

I would rather see quicker approvals by the FDA to help cap profits by drug companies and equipment companies, and beyond that, let the private sector think of an efficient ways to get it done, using national competition as the hammer.

If a hospital is losing money, maybe they need a better collection center, or a more efficient way to handle patients. Not every doctor in this country has to make $250 grand a year, and certainly, men and women should not need to have to pay an educational institution $250-275 thousand to educate them for medical service. There is a LOT of price gouging going on, and that would be a good place to start. Competition is a good start.

The problem is, once a government gives away a benefit, it is almost impossible to take it away. Medicaid is a great example. There are no silver bullets.

I understand the pain Mike and caboxmaker are going through, I was laid off a couple times well before 60 years old and wondered if and when my kids might get sick. It is a sinking feeling. But there are answers, it just seems that none of our politicians want get out of the way and let the US capitalistic economy get in there and duke it out in a competitive manner.


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## JADobson (Aug 14, 2012)

> It is not the governments job to provide healthcare.
> Taking money from one person and giving it to another is socialism, I could use a table saw… send me yours.
> When students protesting for obamacare were asked in using the same ideas would they share their 4.0 grade with others lowering it to a 3.0, answer no way I worked hard for that!
> 
> - Fresch


Governments everywhere are different, but in the country I reside in (Canada) that is a part the government's job. It isn't perfect but it is nice not having to worry about a bill when I go to the hospital with my wife to have a baby. Sure I pay more in tax but I honestly don't mind. I'm more than happy to help those less fortunate than myself to have that same level of care. You might call it socialism (shouldn't be a bad word) I just call it being a decent human being.


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## Fresch (Feb 21, 2013)

JaDobson, that's nice for your country not for the U.S. we are a Republic.

If you look, in the U.S. We have overlapping healthcare that is already paid by taxpayers. We need to open up competition across the nation.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> It is not the governments job to provide healthcare.
> - Fresch


Well, they don't. The ACA effects all health insurance in the US. It specifies minimum allowable coverages so you no longer can get those junk policies previously being pushed on unsuspecting consumers. It prevents being turned down due to preexisting conditions. It removes yearly and lifetime caps on policies. It facilitates private company coverage of individuals who need assistance in paying their premiums. It reduces the deficit and increases care providers ability to cover more patients without loss. And more. Most of the problems with the ACA are political, not technical, which is a shame.

Cheers,
Brad


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## Fresch (Feb 21, 2013)

MrUnix, I was responding to the op, he asked in his 2nd sentence government help, I assumed that was about money.


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## JADobson (Aug 14, 2012)

> JaDobson, that s nice for your country not for the U.S. we are a Republic.
> 
> - Fresch


You are right. It is nice.


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## caboxmaker (May 3, 2017)

> MrUnix, I was responding to the op, he asked in his 2nd sentence government help, I assumed that was about money.
> 
> - Fresch


My second sentence could or could not refer to money. Are you on medicare? If not, do you plan on using medicare? How about medicaid. Would you use medicaid if the right circumstances presented themselves? If either answer is yes then you are using government money. 
My second sentence actually refers to government facilitating healthcare for all, not necessarily paying for it. I think all people should have access to healthcare. If the government needs to force the issue then so be it.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

Forcing employers to provide it just means they get the crappiest coverage possible. And you cannot shop around, or get your own. My friend works at a retail auto shop pays 3 times what I do, and gets. $1000 deductible per person 1st then $50 copay 60/40 on ER but only after like $14,500 I think.

Meanwhile I am able to shop, much lower policy I can afford, have $25 copays no deductible and ER is capped at I think $4500 per person.

Like anything else it is systematic problem. One they threw ACA at and called it a day.


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## caboxmaker (May 3, 2017)

gen·teel
jenˈtēl/Submit
adjective
polite, refined, or respectable, often in an affected or ostentatious way.
synonyms: refined, respectable, decorous, mannerly, well mannered, courteous, polite, proper, correct, seemly

This is how this thread is going. I congratulate you all.


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

> JaDobson, that s nice for your country *not for the U.S. we are a Republic.*
> 
> If you look, in the U.S. We have overlapping healthcare that is already paid by taxpayers. We need to open up competition across the nation.
> 
> - Fresch


*Definition Of Republic: "A political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them."* "Represent Them"? Sure Thing! They MIGHT do that after they line their OWN Pockets!

I just saw a news report on this. The Short Story of a Reliable Institution that researched this is that 70,000 + People in the USA DIED Last Year because they couldn't afford the Necessary Health Care.

Yes. I'm from Canada and I recently broke my Ankle. That resulted in 2.5 Months in the Hospital and 3 Surgeries, +Recovery and +Rehab The Bill would have been $15,000.00+! Thanks to the Government and My Retiree Health Benefits Plan from a Major Corporation. It cost me $0.00 Dollars.

Now I have a Bionic Ankle with 8 Screws and 2 Metal Plates. ....LOL….

Rick

P.S. Definition Of Social Insurance (From Socialism)* "Government provision for unemployed, injured, or aged people; financed by contributions from employers and employees as well as by government revenue."*

Have A Nice Day Ya'll!!


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

$15,000? I was in the Hospital last year for 4 days and the bill was well over $30,000. Sounds like cost are much lower in Canada.


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## madts (Dec 30, 2011)

If the whole of Europe and Canada can have single payer insurance, Why cant we?


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

> $15,000? I was in the Hospital last year for 4 days and the bill was well over $30,000. Sounds like cost are much lower in Canada.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy


*You are Correct!*

The $15,000.00 was My Private Insurers Portion and we had some discussion about the Proper Amount. The TOTAL AMOUNT was probably A LOT HIGHER than that. I never saw what it was. I asked, but they couldn't tell me. (OR Wouldn't!)

Thanks for bringing that to my Attention AG.

Rick


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

> If the whole of Europe and Canada can have single payer insurance, Why cant we?
> 
> - madts


Good Question Madts! Perhaps the closest explanation is "POLITICS" !


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## caboxmaker (May 3, 2017)

> If the whole of Europe and Canada can have single payer insurance, Why cant we?
> 
> - madts
> 
> ...


The closest explanation is big buiness and money, just like everything else in this great USA. It's all about the money…BIG money. Billions and billions of dollars each year. The status quo must be kept.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> JaDobson, that s nice for your country not for the U.S. we are a Republic.
> 
> If you look, in the U.S. We have overlapping healthcare that is already paid by taxpayers. We need to open up competition across the nation.
> 
> - Fresch


What does not having a monarchy have to do with it?


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

First off I want to state that I am not much for the federal government doing stuff beyond defense and infrastructure, now alot of things can fall into this though. The CDC, FDA, DOD, DOE etc those all fall into the defense or infrastructure categories.

Secondly I want to say that I think the arguement that you have to have auto insurance therefore you should have to have health insurance is a BS arguement. The fact is that you do not have to have auto insurance to repair your car, you have to have liability to either reapair the other guys car if the accident is your fault, and you have to have collision insurance to repair the banks car, because it is not your car until it is paid off and you have a title. Once the car is yours you don't have to have anything but liability insurance.

Now onto the subject of healthcare. I believe that we are looking at it incorrectly, what the ACA did was made health care less affordable, but insurance more affordable. The reason is because insurance is often used for little things that I feel people should be paying for themselves. Insurance should be for the big stuff such as cancer treatment, recovering from a heartattack, getting a knee replacement etc, not going to the doctor for the sniffles. If you make insurance cover all of these common little items then you DO pay for it, just not directly. Because the chain of money to pay for you going to the doctor for the sniffles is so long it is going to cost more. Fourty years ago a doctor typically had a receptionist, now they have an entire team of billers, transcriptionists etc etc, I would wager the average single doctor practice has 20 other employees for the purpose of taking care of the insurance and billing.

When my dad passed away I could not get it through my moms head that she shouldn't pay for the expensive insurance, she kept saying she needed insurance to pay for perscriptions. In the 13 years since my dad passed away she has had maybe 4-5 perscriptions and that is it. Finally after about a year she realized that she was paying over $300/month to have a free perscription insurance plan, that she never used for a single perscription. In thirteen years she has spent less on perscriptions than a single month of the additional cost of the insurance plan that she thought she originally wanted. Everyone wants to go to the doctor but nobody wants to pay for it, yet think nothing of taking their car to the garage and spending $1500 on a new set of tires or spending $100/month on a smart phone data plan.

Now where the government comes in, I think if they wanted to get people access to healthcare they should have gone the infrastructure route. There is a huge shortage of healthcare professionals right now, the government should encourage people to become doctors, nurses etc by having them work in low cost clinics in exchange for help getting their educations (notice I said help, not completely pay for).


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> First off I want to state that I am not much for the federal government doing stuff beyond defense and infrastructure, now alot of things can fall into this though. The CDC, FDA, DOD, DOE etc those all fall into the defense or infrastructure categories.
> 
> Secondly I want to say that I think the arguement that you have to have auto insurance therefore you should have to have health insurance is a BS arguement. The fact is that you do not have to have auto insurance to repair your car, you have to have liability to either reapair the other guys car if the accident is your fault, and you have to have collision insurance to repair the banks car, because it is not your car until it is paid off and you have a title. Once the car is yours you don t have to have anything but liability insurance.
> 
> ...


As I understand it, the Canadian healthcare system is for major nedical, not all medical expenses and not prescriptions unless given at a hospital. That sounds like what we need. Single payer major medical.


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

*"As I understand it, the Canadian healthcare system is for major medical, not all medical expenses and not prescriptions unless given at a hospital. That sounds like what we need. Single payer major medical."*

Canadian Medical Expenses are ALL covered including Extended Prescriptions at a Pharmacy written up by your Doctor but you pay a $4.00 or $5.00 "Dispensing Fee." Also visits to my Doctor and any Examinations, or a Referral to a Specialist for Treatment and all Medical Care from that Visit.

Emergency Care (911) is covered. Dental Care is also covered, usually mostly by your Employer.

In fact I can't think of any type of Medical Care that is not Covered,.

All of that is sometimes shared between the Government and your Employer IF you have coverage at work.

If not, the government has numerous Specialty Coverage Plans that you can take part in if you qualify. I.E. Prosthetics or Special Equipment that you might require for your Recovery.

Rick


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

> $15,000? I was in the Hospital last year for* 4 days and the bill was well over $30,000.* Sounds like cost are much lower in Canada.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy


 I did some quick Calculations using your figures **. So you're saying my 75 days in Hospital would of cost, ME and/or my Insurers ($30,000.00/4= $7,500/Day) $7500×75= $562,500.00 If I lived in the USA!?*

*That's Totally INSANE!!* Somebody check my Figure Please! I Have to be Wrong!

Rick


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## Jimintomahawak (Feb 5, 2017)

Whatever. It's a mess Let's make sawdust


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

> $15,000? I was in the Hospital last year for* 4 days and the bill was well over $30,000.* Sounds like cost are much lower in Canada.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy
> 
> ...


YES, before the insurance company argued it down to 1/3 then argued some more for a further discount. But count the original total towards your lifetime cost.

INSANE just touches the surface of this mess.


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## caboxmaker (May 3, 2017)

Woodbutcher, you couldn't ask for better healthcare then you get in the good old USofA.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Woodbutcher, you couldn t ask for better healthcare then you get in the good old USofA.
> 
> - caboxmaker


Really

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/press-releases/2014/jun/us-health-system-ranks-last


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## caboxmaker (May 3, 2017)

Alaska,

Despite having the most expensive health care system, the United States ranks last overall among 11 industrialized countries on measures of health system quality, efficiency, access to care, equity, and healthy lives, according to a new Commonwealth Fund report.

In my 70 years I have never had problems with any of the above.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Alaska,
> 
> In my 70 years I have never had problems with any of the above.
> 
> - caboxmaker


At 70 your still a young pup. I'm older by a few years and like you they haven't killed me yet. But, I can read and I've formed a different opinion than you.


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

> Woodbutcher, you couldn t ask for better healthcare then you get in the good old USofA.
> 
> - caboxmaker
> Really
> ...


As far as quality we are right at the top. We do have more choices to types of car, or at least we did, I haven't had to deal much with the healthcare world since my dad passed away in 2005.

When someone else is paying for it your choices are limited by them, and yes this does include typical insurance.


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## jeffswildwood (Dec 26, 2012)

I think, I may be wrong, but at the end of world war 2, when England began rebuilding Winston Churchill said "if we can find the money to kill, then we should be able to find the money to heal" The problem I am seeing is that Doctors, hospitals, pharmacy med produces and insurance company's have become just that. A for profit corporation. I do agree that doctors are doing a job and deserve paid for that job. But how much is enough. The other three, well, does "too big to fail" ring a bell? As many said above, I did 21 years in the military (NG) and now I have insurance. At the time I didn't realize it but that turned out to be the best benefit for staying in. I'm retired now from state service also. Had it not been for getting insurance from the military, I could not have retired. Retirees from the state pay $1,400.00 a month for continuation of their plan. I would be more then willing to pay a higher tax so if needed I (or anyone else) could just go get treatment and walk out with no bill. But that money would have to be left alone. Not "borrowed" from to fund "pet projects".

An example is I had a relative that needed double hernia surgery. No insurance, self employed. He checked and got a quote from all the local medical facility's. Turns out it was way cheaper for him to buy two round trip tickets to England, have the surgery done, stay in a hotel for a week and meals then to have it done here. There's a problem with this.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> I think, I may be wrong, but at the end of world war 2, when England began rebuilding Winston Churchill said "if we can find the money to kill, then we should be able to find the money to heal" The problem I am seeing is that Doctors, hospitals, pharmacy med produces and insurance company s have become just that. A for profit corporation. I do agree that doctors are doing a job and deserve paid for that job. But how much is enough. The other three, well, does "too big to fail" ring a bell? As many said above, I did 21 years in the military (NG) and now I have insurance. At the time I didn t realize it but that turned out to be the best benefit for staying in. I m retired now from state service also. Had it not been for getting insurance from the military, I could not have retired. Retirees from the state pay $1,400.00 a month for continuation of their plan. I would be more then willing to pay a higher tax so if needed I (or anyone else) could just go get treatment and walk out with no bill. But that money would have to be left alone. Not "borrowed" from to fund "pet projects".
> 
> An example is I had a relative that needed double hernia surgery. No insurance, self employed. He checked and got a quote from all the local medical facility s. Turns out it was way cheaper for him to buy two round trip tickets to England, have the surgery done, stay in a hotel for a week and meals then to have it done here. There s a problem with this.
> 
> - jeffswildwood


Just a few month ago I had a Colonoscopy done in Anchorage Alaska, Cost 5,200. A friend of my had one done in Costa Rica while on vacation there in 2016 and it cost 350.00 dollars.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

> . A friend of my had one done in Costa Rica while on vacation there in 2016 and it cost 350.00 dollars.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy


Yeah but…....


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> . A friend of my had one done in Costa Rica while on vacation there in 2016 and it cost 350.00 dollars.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy
> 
> ...


You are so wrong. Costa Rica has well trained doctors and nice clean modern facilities. How do I know that.

1 friend who has been there told my so. 
2 My neighbor who has a daughter that lives there told me so.
3 The same neighbor owns a house there told me so.
4 I can read and do research. I was at one time considering retiring there.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

> . A friend of my had one done in Costa Rica while on vacation there in 2016 and it cost 350.00 dollars.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy
> 
> ...


It was just a joke! sorry


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> . A friend of my had one done in Costa Rica while on vacation there in 2016 and it cost 350.00 dollars.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy
> 
> ...


Well you be surprised how many people think like that.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Woodbutcher, you couldn t ask for better healthcare then you get in the good old USofA.
> 
> - caboxmaker
> Really
> ...


http://nordic.businessinsider.com/the-16-countries-with-the-worlds-best-healthcare-systems-2017-1


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

> $15,000? I was in the Hospital last year for* 4 days and the bill was well over $30,000.* Sounds like cost are much lower in Canada.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy
> 
> ...


The Insurance Company did NOT argue it down 1/3, then again! ALL Medical Procedures are well documented and are open to Public Viewing. Where did you get that Nonsense From?

"But count the original total towards your lifetime cost." How can it be a "Lifetime Cost!"

I also have to go back in to have my Ankle Re-Opened, cleaned out of an Infection and 3 Screws Replaced. I got a Firm Price for doing so and as long as I go into a Semi Private Room. ALL Medical Expenses WILL BE COVERED regardless of the time I will have to spend in the Hospital AGAIN!

YES! In the USA the cost of doing that would be Insane and Yes, it's a mess!

From The Report Link Provided:

"Despite having the most expensive health care system, the United States ranks last overall among 11 industrialized countries on measures of health system quality, efficiency, access to care, equity, and healthy lives, according to a new Commonwealth Fund report. The other countries included in the study were Australia, Canada, France, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand Norway, Sweden Switzerland, and the United Kingdom. While there is room for improvement in every country, the U.S. stands out for having the highest costs and lowest performance-the U.S. spent $8,508 per person on health care in 2011, compared with $3,406 in the United Kingdom, which ranked first overall."

Rick


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## caboxmaker (May 3, 2017)

Here's the real question on healthcare in America. With the addition of ACA is everyone now covered? Have any people been left out? Please don't go into illegal immigrants. They're a whole story by themselves.


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## jeffswildwood (Dec 26, 2012)

> Here s the real question on healthcare in America. With the addition of ACA is everyone now covered? Have any people been left out? Please don t go into illegal immigrants. They re a whole story by themselves.
> 
> - caboxmaker


Having health care (insurance) and being able to afford a trip to the doctor or hospital are two different things. I think there is a form of insurance available to anyone that wants it. Many were paying the penalty because it was cheaper. I had an argument on another site with an individual I knew years ago. Medical costs. His brother, who turns out to be a doctor jumped in and stated "I'll have you know I am only allowed to charge two time the allowable medicare rate". All I could say was WOW. There's the problem. Having insurance and being on a fixed or low income and you are still out of luck due to the high costs!


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

Rich my info comes from two customers I have that do Healthcare billing. More goes on behind the scenes we know nothing about. I was surprised at how much they wheel and deal myself. Then the real shock. They have in a databank somewhere our names and have used medical records and billing to get a magic number. Then factor in what an average is, then more magic math for how much they think you might be sick and cost over our expected lifetime. (another magic number). These health and wellness visits are part of figuring this number out.

Just thinking about it can drive you insane. Drinks anyone??

LOL


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

> Rich my info comes from two customers I have that do Healthcare billing. More goes on behind the scenes we know nothing about. I was surprised at how much they wheel and deal myself. Then the real shock. They have in a databank somewhere our names and have used medical records and billing to get a magic number. Then factor in what an average is, then more magic math for how much they think you might be sick and cost over our expected lifetime. (another magic number). These health and wellness visits are part of figuring this number out.
> 
> Just thinking about it can drive you insane. Drinks anyone??
> 
> ...


The problem we are having here is the difference between The USA & CANADA. Up here all Medical Records are Very Confidential! If someone wants to access My Records (Medical Personnel Only!) They have to get Me to sign a Release Form.

My GP will NOT release anyone's Records to anyone unless She sees My Signature on Her Copy of the Release Form. Your Past History has NO Bearing on any future procedures. No "Magic Numbers" Involved.

Thanks for responding and being so Civil about this. I think We've Flogged This Dead Horse enough now. I'm taking it Off Of "Watch."

Regards: Rick


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I have had health insurance all my adult life. I pressed my first,employer for it and did get some coverage. I was then self employed and I bought it for my family. When I took another job I made sure my employer would provide it for me, and until they did I bought my own. I am retired now and pay for my health insurance. 
If I can (choose to) do this so can others. Remember: we had no cell phone bills no tattoos, rarely eating out, no alcohol,no vacations, no computers, no cable TV, rarely went to movies, one TV one phone, one car, one income and only a high school education. All this after suffering four years in the military… right out of high school.


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## pontic (Sep 25, 2016)

There is one thing I know from dealing with Insurance as a Health care provider for over 25 years, is this: Insurance companies are in existence to make money not good deeds.
PS, Dental insurance is not real insurance.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> There is one thing I know from dealing with Insurance as a Health care provider for over 25 years, is this: Insurance companies are in existence to make money not good deeds.
> PS, Dental insurance is not real insurance.
> 
> - pontic


Well let me tell you. Your right about dental insurance. I'm in the process of getting denture. You can see what me estimated cost is and what they think the insurance will pay. This estimate does not include the 2 implants they could put in the lower jaw for the dentures to clip onto to help how the denture in place. If I was to get the 2 implants that would be another 4,000. I guess this is why I never see any old dentist, they make their money and leave. 
They offer a 5% discount for cash, and they mean cash. Not credit cards, no checks, just real folding money.


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## pontic (Sep 25, 2016)

I see Dr. Sanders puts DICOI after his DMD degree. Looks pretty important doesn't it. Like he has another specialty degree like Doctor of Implantology or something like that. Well, it isn't. It stands for Diplomate of the International Conference of Implatology. Take a 6 weeks of Continuing Education, 120 implant cases (not very many) write an article or present a case(slide show) and give a lecture(stand up in front of a screen and push thru a power point presentation while rattling your Rolex and I can be a DICOI too.
It's not a conferred degree like a masters or another Doctorate like the true specialists have. He just has a lot of experience with placing implants. Ask him if he has a "Cone Beam Tomograph" For best results he should use one of these so he doesn't drive the implant into your alveolar nerve or artery.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> There is one thing I know from dealing with Insurance as a Health care provider for over 25 years, is this: Insurance companies are in existence to make money not good deeds.
> PS, Dental insurance is not real insurance.
> 
> - pontic
> ...


Holy crap, I'm gonna brush my teeth 4 times a day now instead of 2 times a day.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> There is one thing I know from dealing with Insurance as a Health care provider for over 25 years, is this: Insurance companies are in existence to make money not good deeds.
> PS, Dental insurance is not real insurance.
> 
> - pontic
> ...


You better. 
I could get that same work done in Mexico for about 5 to 6 thousand.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

> You better.
> I could get that same work done in Mexico for about 5 to 6 thousand.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy


I was thinking, why not go to Costa Rica for $350.00


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> You better.
> I could get that same work done in Mexico for about 5 to 6 thousand.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy
> ...


wrong hole.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

> You better.
> I could get that same work done in Mexico for about 5 to 6 thousand.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy
> ...


LOL That was a good one…


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