# Bought this defective switch from Peachtree-read on for potential dangers and poor customer service



## MarkDavisson

My solution would be to send the item to Peachtree.


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## BinghamtonEd

Few months back I had to return a $100 section of vinyl fencing to Home Depot because it was defective. I asked for 10% off to cover my gas (it probably only cost me $7 in gas but I'm greedy like that). They obliged, no problem. Sounds like poor customer service at Peachtree, which surprises me (I've never dealt with their CS, but I've always had positive experiences ordering from them).

I would call back, and speak to David again. Ask them if they'd like to be responsible for you if something happens using a defective item they refused to make good on. Also let them know that you've posted a review on one of the most popular woodworking forums, and that you'll be posting a follow-up to detail Peachtree's final handling of the problem, and let him know it is up to him which way that review will go. Does he want to lose a few customers for a few bucks? Or keep some and, oh gee, I don't know, DO THE RIGHT THING.

Edit : Maybe it's worth it to David to lose you as a customer for good? See what he thinks.


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## Handtooler

If you have a contact number for Fulton get in touch with their customer service dept and ask about them replacing it. They may only want a shipping address and tell you to dispose of you defective item. You'll need the model number where and when purchased, serial number if there is one. date of manufacture code if there is one. Bet they'll come thru.

Question? Is your switch a magnetic style where if there is a power failure or circuit breaker trip the machine will not come on when power is restored? Most are NOT. Grizzly for example has none that are. Just large paddles. That's an important feature for me.


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## jshroyer

I would send it back to peachtree. I use peachtree for all sorts of low cost items that i want. To keep prices low they have to keep policies like that.


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## BinghamtonEd

> I would send it back to peachtree. I use peachtree for all sorts of low cost items that i want. To keep prices low they have to keep policies like that.
> - jshroyer


I think that's a lousy policy. The customer should not be penalized for being the recipient of a defective item. The cost of return shipping on defective items is part of doing business, or they should have directed her to the manufacturer. Or, they could have offered to credit her the shipping costs once it was verified that the item was defective and not damaged by inproper installation. If this is really their policy, it sounds like they need to step up and stand behind their product more and aim to keep customers happy. This should have been an issue between Peachtree and Fulton, not Peachtree and Ellen.

Handtooler has a good point about contacting Fulton. This is most likely where the problem originated (I doubt Peachtree broke it, but it's possible). Like he said, they will probably be more interested in you not using the defective product as they are the ones who produced it.


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## CincyRW

Here's a link to the Consumer Product Safety Commission where you can report an unsafe product to the agency:

https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMSPublic/Incidents/ReportIncident.aspx


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## tyvekboy

As far as Peachtree Woodworking goes, I very seldom shop with them. They may have good prices but their policies are to be questioned. Have you ever noticed if you shop with them that you'll see some of their products that they sell look similar to some proprietary products you've seen at ROCKLER? Just saying …..

If you get nowhere with Peachtree, get in touch with Fulton Woodworking Tools.

Fultonwoodworkingtools.com is owned and operated as a marketing resource of 
Fulton™ Woodworking Tools & Accessories
P.O. Box 921487 
Norcross, GA 30010
©2011 Fulton™ Woodworking Tools & Accessories

Here is their home page:

http://fultonwoodworkingtools.com/contact_us.htm

I'm sure they'll just replace it for you. Will be watching for the outcome.


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## donbee

Having been associated with the merchandising industry and in manufacturing I can say that if my company sold this switch I would do ANYTHING to avoid two things:
1. Allowing the defective switch to cause either injury or inconvenience to my customer, and
2. letting the world know what a lousy company policy we enforce without exception.

I had a bad experience myself with Peachtree years ago with defective product and I have never bought anything else since. That's what people do when they get stung by bad customer service.

Don


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## OnhillWW

Years ago I purchased a Forstner drill bit sharpening kit from Peachtree. Included were to be a couple of 400 or 600 grit diamond sharpening tools( I don't remember which it was). When they arrived I could tell just by feeling these that they were far coarser than stated and poorly manufactured - they were more like 120 - 150 grit, when used on metal they created a terrible scratch pattern and a surface that was rough and totally non-uniform (luckily I never ran them over my drill bits). I called PT and told them what I had with the concern that perhaps they had a bad run come in and would want to inspect them to keep from shipping out kits that could be a problem. The gentleman, who said he was the owner, told me on no uncertain terms that that what I had described could not be the case and that if I wanted to ship the kit back - @ my expense - I could and they would give me a refund. What annoyed me was the attitude more than the policy; my call was intended as more of a heads-up to help them yet he was curt and condescending in tone - since then not a penny in their direction.


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## intelligen

Unfortunately PeachTree's return policy is pretty clear on their website. Although it's common today for companies to eat the return shipping, it wasn't always that way.

As others mentioned, you may have better luck going directly to the manufacturer.

Also you may be able to put some pressure on PeachTree by opening a claim through your credit card company. Most businesses would rather pay $5 or $10 shipping than deal with the consequences of a chargeback, which potentially include higher fees and termination of service. Since PeachTree's return policy is pretty clear, you may not get anywhere, but it's worth a try as a last-ditch effort.


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## ellen35

So I just got off the phone with Fulton. Seems they are a division of Peachtree. The woman I talked with was very nice but reiterated their policy of the customer paying for the return of a defective product. She stated that their return policy was clearly stated in their customer service policy. I told her that her customer service page talked about general returns, not defective and dangerous merchandise returns. I essentially got nowhere. She asked me to put it in writing and she would take it to a supervisor. I will do this but will also file with the Consumer Product Safety Division as recommended here. Posting this on LJ didn't seem to phase her as she had never heard of us.

There are plenty of good, ethical, accommodating woodworking supply companies out there. This is my last purchase from Peachtree. And… I won't take this treatment lying down!

Note to Rob: this is a general return policy. I have never heard of the customer paying shipping for a defective and potentially dangerous policy!


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## BinghamtonEd

> I have never heard of the customer paying shipping for a defective and potentially dangerous policy!
> 
> - ellen35


Agreed, and I don't think I will be ordering from them anymore. I've never had a problem with them in the past, and I guess I'm lucky to not have to have dealt with one. I'd rather pay a little more and have the comfort of knowing that I'm not financially liable for quality control issues on the manufacturer/vendor side.

Edit : Ellen, just out of curiosity, how much was the return shipping? Probably less than the future profit they'd have made if they'd kept you as a satisfied customer.


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## dschlic1

The switch might be similar to the Woodstock D4160 switch. If so the switch is magnetically held closed. For this to happen both the hot and the neutral side of the incoming and outgoing power must be wired to the switch. If not then the unit will start when the start button is pressed but them stops when the start button is released. I don't know if this is applicable to your case, but you might want to check on it.


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## tyvekboy

I had a feeling FULTON was connected with PTWW.

I also don't attend the woodworking show coming up in March in Atlanta cause they are a MAJOR participant in that show.

I think defective products should be replace no questions asked.

Now I can avoid FULTON WOODWORKING TOOLS too.


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## Dedvw

Definitely talk to your credit card if you used one. Discover card had a $500 purchase protection against purchases regardless of the sellers policy. Not to mention price protection, it refunds me money if the price drops within 90 days. I use my CC as much as I can for these reasons.


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## craftsman on the lake

Better yet, skip the whole thing and order one free of shipping charges from amazon. Here's a bunch of them

Amazon will take anything back and will send you a UPS slip to put on the box; prepaid. Try to stick to Amazon store stuff. Even if you don't Amazon will intervene and make good on it.


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## DarrylJN

Ellen,
I decided to look them on the Better Business Bureau and it turns out that they are not accredited but there was one complaint posted:

http://www.bbb.org/atlanta/business-reviews/woodworking/peachtree-woodworking-supply-in-norcross-ga-27382120/complaints

Peachtree did respond to the consumer on BBB, I suggest that you also file a complaint on the BBB so at least it's documented when other people search on Peachtree.

Thanks,

Darryl


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## ellen35

I've filed with the BBB as Darryl suggested, the US Consumer Product Safety Commission as CincyRW suggested and sent an email to Peachtree/Fulton as they suggested. I'm not sure Peachtree/Fulton cares… but we shall see if I get their attention!


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## Riowood1000

What type of table saw were you going to going to use this switch on?


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## jakep_82

I too would ask what type of saw you were using with this switch. It's only rated for 15 amps. I had the exact same problem with a similar switch on a contractor saw. I found that the switch was arcing, and essentially welding itself together. The start up amperage on the saw was simply too high for the switch to handle. I replaced it with a switch rated for 20 amps and never had another problem.


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## ellen35

It's an older version of a Grizzly 0732 contractor's saw.


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## longgone

apparently there are several paddle switches that look extremely similar to the one you purchased. I have one on my router table that looks like it (from Rockler) and have used it extensively for over six years with no problem. Peachtree sound like they are on a self destruct path.


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## JoeLyddon

My first thought that was that it burned up using it on a Table Saw…
Most will not handle that type of load…
Routers, grinders, sanders, etc. work ok… BUT, for a TS… I would be VERY careful…

Check the specs for the Load Maximum ratings… it should be there, somewhere…

I usually pick them up from Rockler on Sale for about $25… Rockler will NOT hesitate to make it right… They are great! ... That search at Amazon that was posted looked GOOD TOO.

I would call and talk to the President (Top Dog) of the companies before writing them off… If they are worth their salt, they will go overboard to make to happy!

Good Luck!


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## sawdustjunkie

Last year the woodworking show was in March and as others stated, Peach tree is very prominent at the show. There display was almost half of the building.
I actually spent almost $300 with them, but nothing electrical. I always buy from Woodcraft or Rockler for that stuff. If there is something wrong with it, I can simply return it for a refund or exchange.
The stuff I bought was simple things and I also bought a Gripper from them. Everything was fine with my stuff.
I did buy some things for my table saw that I sold 2 months after the show, but it wasn't their fault for that.
Some retailers just don't care if you have a problem and because they sell at such a high volume, I really don't think they care if they loose a customer. They won't say it to your face, but when you have a problem, they don't want to help.
Sorry you had a problem with them.
I intend to go to the show again this year and I am sure they will be there big time just like last year.


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## NoThanks

I would probably try the switch on a lessor tool that doesn't pull as much power and if it works great, if not I would throw it away and call it a lesson learned. I would not invest any more time with peachtree because they don't care one way or the other. What I would invest time in is telling every person I know that might use them of the service they gave you and I would NEVER buy from them again. There are too many other suppliers to buy from to have to deal with crap like that.


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## Dedvw

I was at the West Springfield Woodworking show this year as well. I didn't buy anything from them, but felt bad that I didn't because they owned half the show and had such great presentations. Your story makes me feel better that I didn't buy anything.

And based on the newer Grizzly 0732 specs (I don't know what your saw specs are, but assume they are similar), that switch should have no problem running that motor.


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## Peachtree

Let me start by saying there are always two sides to any story. I have spoken to my employee that had first contact with this customer and they have given me a whole different account of what went on with this customer. Peachtree woodworking takes great pride in their customer service and we do the best we can to resolve any issues for our customers. Every item that we sell has a one-year warranty and a 30 day moneyback guarantee. We stand behind every product that we sell. This item was purchased at a retail woodworking trade show. Our policy for defective items or returns under the 30 day money back guarantee is the customer is responsible for getting the item back to us. There are two ways that they can handle this. The first way is to drive back to the show and return the item in person. Just like you would with any other purchase that you made it in a retail setting. The second way to return an item if they choose not to come back to the woodworking show is to mail it back to us. Once we get an item back to us at the show or at our headquarters in Atlanta we would either repair or replace the item underneath the one year warranty. Under our warranty Peachtree does cover the return shipping charges to get the replacement item back out to the customer. I know that some of you don't agree with our policies but it is what allows us to sell at very competitive prices and compete with the bigger guys in the woodworking industry. Peachtree woodworking is celebrating its 15 years in business this January and have been able to survive in this challenging economy due to the policies that we've adapted. I am willing to make an exception to our policies in this situation. If the item is truly defective once we get it back we will reimburse the return shipping cost in a form of a store credit. Thank you all for your business over the past 15 years. 
David Hughes
Owner/ President


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## jack1

Sorry about your experience. I wasn't very impressed with them when I ordered from them I would not use them again.


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## NoThanks

"Our policy for defective items or returns under the 30 day money back guarantee is the customer is responsible for getting the item back to us."

"There are two ways that they can handle this. The first way is to drive back to the show and return the item in person. Just like you would with any other purchase that you made it in a retail setting."

Exactly the problem. Why should a customer have to pay shipping back to you for something you sold them that was defective. Just because you normally have to drive to a "retail setting" to return something is not a valid reason and falls into a different catagory than mail order, in my opinion. Maybe if you were down the street it wouldn't be a problem. Doing business online where shipping is required to deliver your product is a complete different set of circumstances and should be handled differently than going down the street.

"Under our warranty Peachtree does cover the return shipping charges to get the replacement item back out to the customer."

But you don't cover the return shipping charges to get the item back from the customer to your business?

Because *you don't stand behind your products 100%* I will not be using your services.


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## MarkDavisson

I respect a company that publishes its policies, as Peachtree has done, and sticks to them. I do not respect a company that makes an exception for the squeakiest wheel, as it appears Peachtree is going to do in this situation.

It is not my style to squeak. I deal with companies based on their published policies, and I expect them to adhere to those policies. I will not become a drama queen to get what I want, and I won't do business with a company that bends to them.


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## Dedvw

David,

While I don't agree with your return policy, I do agree that there are two sides to every story. I always appreciate when an owner responds to their customers problems, even if it is after an elevated event. It seems easier to monitor the pulse of a companies customers nowadays thanks to websites like Lumberjocks.

I will say that your presentation at the woodworking show was very good. I came so close to buying the GRR-Ripper Double Pack and the Dovetail Wiz Package but decided last minute to hold off. I also don't want situations like this to scare vendors off from woodworking shows as they are as much, if not more of the show, than the spectators.


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## NoThanks

"Our policy for defective items"

I would like to see this policy *regarding defective items*. I couldn't find anything.


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## Dusty56

Hi Ellen
Sorry to read that you are having issues with Peachtree : ( 
I can't believe that they would quibble over an apparent issue with a safety item like this !!! 
And then to top it off, they offer to refund your shipping charges with "store credit" ? WTH ?
I also loved how they expected you to drive back to the Cape and install their switch and then drive back to Western MA with it because it was defective…..As if the SHOW was a permanent store front here. Idiots !
I won't be buying anything else from them in the future.
I guess they'll know who / what Lumberjocks is now !
Take care and Happy New Year to you : )


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## ellen35

Interestingly, I can no longer return the switch. The Consumer Product Safety Commission asks that I hold the item until their investigation is complete… approximately 30 days. If Peachtree is willing to pay shipping costs to them for me after all this, what will they do with the next defective product???? This is a matter of principle for me… I can afford the $8 or so to ship it back but think it is wrong to do so. Woodworker safety should be job one for any company; I don't care how cheaply they sell things. Lee Valley and Woodpeckers may be expensive but quality and customer service are paramount. This would never happen there.

As for my conversation with the initial Peachtree representative, what's he gonna tell his boss… he was a jerk??? It is always easier to blame the caller/customer than admit that you were discourteous to a customer.


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## intelligen

First off, it's nice to see Peachtree address the problem and offer a remedy, regardless of whether anyone agrees with the policy or agrees that the policy is being followed correctly.



> "Our policy for defective items or returns under the 30 day money back guarantee is the customer is responsible for getting the item back to us."
> 
> "There are two ways that they can handle this. The first way is to drive back to the show and return the item in person. Just like you would with any other purchase that you made it in a retail setting."
> 
> Exactly the problem. Why should a customer have to pay shipping back to you for something you sold them that was defective. Just because you normally have to drive to a "retail setting" to return something is not a valid reason in my opinion. Maybe if you were down the street it wouldn t be a problem, but doing business online where shipping is required to deliver your product then there are expenses you should cover, cost of online business.


The "retail setting" argument makes sense to me for tools bought at a retail store, and maybe also if tools at the show were discounted. If there was no discount at the show, then it doesn't necessarily make sense to expect the customer to drive back to the show, especially if they drove a long distance to the show.

That said, you have to look at the situation from the seller's perspective, too. It isn't necessarily the seller's fault that the manufacturer's product is defective, and the seller may not be able to recover the return shipping cost from the manufacturer. However, since the product is probably manufactured overseas and apparently rebranded under one of Peachtree's brands, then perhaps Peachtree should consider finding a more reliable manufacturer (if this happens a lot) or raising prices slightly across the board to subsidize a more "modern" return policy.

Peachtree also sells through Amazon. In that case, Amazon might enforce a different policy on sellers and you could possibly buy a replacement through Peachtree's Amazon store and return the defective one through Amazon.


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## NoThanks

> Hi Ellen
> Sorry to read that you are having issues with Peachtree : (
> I can t believe that they would quibble over an apparent issue with a safety item like this !!!
> *And then to top it off, they offer to refund your shipping charges with "store credit"* ? WTH ?
> I also loved how they expected you to drive back to the Cape and install their switch and then drive back to Western MA with it because it was defective…..As if the SHOW was a permanent store front here. Idiots !
> I won t be buying anything else from them in the future.
> I guess they ll know who / what Lumberjocks is now !
> Take care and Happy New Year to you : )
> 
> - Dusty56


"*If the item is truly defective* once we get it back we will reimburse the return shipping cost in a form of a store credit."

What do you think there answer would be?


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## NoThanks

> First off, it s nice to see Peachtree address the problem and offer a remedy, regardless of whether anyone agrees with the policy or agrees that the policy is being followed correctly.
> 
> That said, you have to look at the situation from the seller s perspective, too. *It isn t necessarily the seller s fault that the manufacturer s product is defective, and the seller may not be able to recover the return shipping cost from the manufacturer.* However, since the product is probably manufactured overseas and apparently rebranded under one of Peachtree s brands, then perhaps Peachtree should consider finding a more reliable manufacturer (if this happens a lot) or raising prices slightly across the board to subsidize a more "modern" return policy.
> 
> - Rob


As a buyer that's not my problem, that's something they would have to take up with the manufacture. It's Peachtree's reputation. Like you say, if the manufacture doesn't cover them they should find a new supplier to protect their reputation.

That's all I have to add on this!


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## wiser1934

ellen, get ahold of the mass. attorney generals office. that is their jurisdiction. i am sure you will get results from them. regards. paul


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## playingwithmywood

well if this is peachtrees policy then plenty of other places to purchase from and I will keep this in mind in the future… I have ordered stuff from them in the past and glad now that I did not ever have trouble luckily


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## playingwithmywood

I would post this on the WOODWORKING SHOWS facebook page…. that might get their attention


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## playingwithmywood

> If the item is truly defective once we get it back we will reimburse the return shipping cost in a form of a store credit. Thank you all for your business over the past 15 years.
> David Hughes
> Owner/ President
> 
> - Peachtree


as a past customer of yours I will stay a past customer because as a consumer doing mail order I am not going to take the risk of buying something and having it defective and then me having to eat the shipping to get it back to you…. plenty of other places to buy from since I now know your policy on this issue

if this switch of his is defective you should credit him for the switch and the shipping at this point


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## MT_Stringer

I just edited my short list of companies I buy from.

I will watch this thread for further updates.

Good luck Ellen.


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## ksSlim

Ellen, I to suckered for a similar switch from those folks at a WW show.
First week worked wonderful.
Contact company, got same results.
Took switch to the engineering firm where I worked.
Concensus of the Engineers, cheap or poor design. (showed me what the problem was)
I was directed to a local electrical firm the sold a simlar switch at about twice the cost.
Was reminded that if I worked at a firm that designed products, shouldn"t take over 10 minutes to make a fix.
Paddles on some less expensive switches jump out of the containment rings/grooves.
Either the machine will not come due to the "lodged" paddle or it won't shut off for paddle not being contained at the axis.

And I thought I was saving money when I found one cheaper than Grainger.


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## kdc68

My last experience with Peachtree was I ordered a second dust collection hose with very dissatisfied results.

I previously purchased a hose months before and was satisfied. So I went back through my receipt and ordered again using the item number. When I received the second hose it wasn't the same as the first. Poor quality and flimsy. I called their customer service and was appalled by the rudeness of the agent. I was online looking at the picture of this hose on their website while she assured me it was the same as the one I ordered months before. I told her it wasn't. Finally she found that they switched suppliers and that the hose wasn't the same.

Although Peachtree switched suppliers, kept the same item number, and kept the same picture and description as the hose I purchased previously that return shipping was on me. Bull********************…...right?

Sometime after this ordeal I went back to the website and seen they changed the picture and description of this hose.

I still receive their promotional emails. While I look at them, I am never ordering from them again because of that experience. In the grand scheme of things it only cost me $11 to return this item. Big deal right ?.....Well it is. If a vendor doesn't make good on a mistake made by them, then I will go elsewhere


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## 280305

I am sorry to hear about your troubles Ellen.

I have four of the Rockler version that I bought on sale. They have all worked fine for years. Thanks for posting this and warning the rest of us.

Rotten peaches rotting in the sun


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## Tennessee

Many companies require you to get the item back to them for repair/refund. Amazon is actually kind of the exception.
But I will say this - when I bought a weed trimmer from Lowes and a few accessories, I found out weeks later when I used it first time that it was a poor quality product and I wanted to return it. Unfortunately, most of the packaging was gone, and I had managed to put it off past 90 days.

My wife and I took it all back to Lowes, where not only did they give me my money back on all items that still had a package, they gave me store credit on the stuff that did not have packaging, AND a $25 gift card for my troubles with an apology from the manager who happened to be standing there. They actually made effort to keep me as a customer, even though they knew what they had sold was bad. 
I found out that they soon discontinued selling this model.

When it is all said and done, in the long run, quality trumps price…every time, no exceptions.
Their return policy in that case was quality. Peachtree seems to be stuck on the price thingy.


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## CincyRW

Peachtree also has a Facebook page. You may also want to see if they have Twitter. If so, you may want to factually state your concerns on these two very visible social media outlets.


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## Gene01

Luckily, I've never needed to return any item to Peachtree. But then, all I've ordered were non electrical or non mechanical products. All of which I found to be of excellent quality. 
However, I have encountered the same return policy at a few other, non woodworking, concerns. Consequently, as others have suggested, the majority of my purchases are now through Amazon.

I wonder if a price increase of a few cents per item and a change in their return policy might be more cost effective in the long run. That, or a more thorough and rigorous testing of their electrical/mechanical products. 
Word of poor CS gets around fast among woodworkers.


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## Grumpymike

Ellen,
I also feel sorry for your less than polite and business like experience with Peachtree. It appears that their policy is "I got your money so you can take a hike".

I received a damaged part from Grizzley, even though it was the shippers fault they over-night a replacement to me and included a paid return tag. Now to me that is outstanding customer service.

I have in the past made many purchases with Peachtree, but now being aware of their policies and their treatment of their customers, I will be ordering from other more reputable firms.

I would think that if enough woodworkers "boycott" this less than reputable company, and their sales fall off they might rethink their policies and restructure their customer service goals.


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## donbee

Count me in on the boycott

db


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## JayT

Add one more to the list that won't buy from Peachtree again, based on this experience and the company's response. I have purchased from them before at The Woodworking Show, but will now redirect those dollars elsewhere.

I work in retail and can appreciate the difficulty of having a blanket return policy that is fair to all. I also appreciate Mr. Hughes coming on here to state his position, I just happen to 100% disagree with that position. Fully support that paying for shipping on general returns is on the customer who purchased a product and now just doesn't want it, but the burden on defective items should be on the manufacturer, not the consumer *or* the retailer. The issue is that the consumer does not have a relationship with the manufacturer while the retailer does. The retailer is the go between and thus bears the responsibility of crediting the customer and getting that reimbursed back to them from the manufacturer. If someone needs to check an item over to make sure it is really defective before issuing a credit for return shipping costs, I can understand that, but to point blank refuse to do so as a matter of policy is just wrong.

Yes, customers have to drive back to stores for my company to do returns and if requested we would most definitely consider some way to compensate them. These are dealt with on a case by case basis (again, the difficulties of a blanket policy). Most customers don't expect or even ask for this, but it is just good customer service. Sometimes that means a credit or that we deliver the replacement or something other option, depending on the situation. When any of those come up, we can almost always expect a credit from the manufacturer for whatever our store is out financially. For a few, we take the hit and move on, but if a vendor refuses to work with us for the sake of our customers, I guarantee we are looking for a different vendor.

If Peachtree wants to compete in a market that Amazon dominates and has multiple other players, they will need to revisit their policies. As for me, I'm glad there are other players, because they will now get any business that formerly went to Peachtree.

Ellen, if you haven't yet, I would recommend contacting The Woodworking Show. Don't know that they can or will do anything, but they should have a bit of clout and need good vendors to help draw attendees. Having their largest vendor unnecessarily offending people is not in their best interest, either.


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## Gene01

Well said, JayT!


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## sawdustjunkie

My thought would be like another person stated is to try the switch on a different machine that isn't pulling alot of amps and if it works, keep it.
Other wise, just throw it away and call it a day.
It doesn't seem worth any more effort on your part to have Peach Tree make it rite for you.
I have only bought from them at the trade show and have not ordered anything from them.
Like others have said, there are many other suppliers out there that you can deal with.
They do have a very large display at the trade shows and probably sell tens of thousands of dollars in product at the show. If not, they wouldn't have the display size they have.
I buy stuff from Harbor Freight all the time and if I have a problem, I can just take it back for a replacement or refund.
If Peach Tree's policy is to sent the item back at your cost, by the time you factor in what you paid for the switch and return shipping, I would just throw it away.


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## ellen35

Thanks to all my LJ friends for your support. This is not an "Ellen Issue", it is a woodworker's issue. If it were not me being treated this way, it would be/has been another woodworker. The stories here are very telling. We are a tight knit and loyal group. Treat us well and you "own" us… treat us poorly and see what happens. I received an email response to my email requested by them… it said the same thing. You pay extra for our poor quality product. Fulton is their subsidiary. They own it. This Power Tool Switch is also called a "hands-free 'panic' button". The problem with the switch is not electrical, it is mechanical. 
The return policy is very clear for general returns… it is outright wrong for defective merchandise!
I'm obviously in on a boycott. It's too bad they are the biggest vendor at the Woodworking Shows.
Ellen


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## bglenden

Good grief, their policy is clear and not that unusual. If you don't like it by all means buy from someone else, and maybe they will adjust their policies based on market forces, but the amount of outrage being generated is kind of ridiculous frankly.

Cheers,
Brian


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## DIYaholic

Others have spoken very succinctly and echo my opinion….
Point being, a safety issue is a safety issue…. They should do the right thing!!!

Ellen,
Thank you, for standing up for what is right.

+1 on the boycott of that Geogia Peach!!!
I'm I still allowed to have pecans & peanuts??? ;^)


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## JayT

> Good grief, their policy is clear and not that unusual.
> 
> Cheers,
> Brian
> 
> - bglenden


The policy is clear, but I'll argue that it is unusual in today's age for a reputable vendor that sells online. The last item I had to send back as defective from an internet order was not woodworking, but contrast how this company handled it.

I purchased a product that contained a laser sight made by Laserlyte from Cabela's. The laser quit working within a week, while the rest of the product was fine. I purchased new batteries (three of them were needed) to see if that was the problem. The laser worked fine for two days and then quit again. I know I could have contacted Cabela's and they would have made things right (they send a prepaid return label with all orders, just in case) but instead decided to go to the manufacturer and save everyone a step.

Emailed Laserlyte, they emailed back and asked for a bit of information (purchase date, model, etc). They sent a return authorization, but I had to pay shipping until their techs could examine the product. No problem. Mailed in the defective product. Two days after they received it, I had an email acknowledging that the product had been tested and was indeed defective, so they were sending me a new one that was hand tested before leaving to make sure I didn't have the same issue again. When the package showed up, it included the new replacement laser and four sets of spare batteries (enough for approx. a year's usage) that were worth more than double what it cost me to ship the product out.

They handled it correctly and I have no hesitation purchasing more of their product and recommending the company to anyone. The monetary cost to them and me was relatively small, but the idea that they cared about their customers and wanted to make things right as quickly as possible was priceless.

It's called good customer service.


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## MT_Stringer

As of this moment, 1155 views. The word is getting out!


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## JoeLyddon

*This is a VERY GOOD IDEA... Do it...*

An *Electrical problem can cause a Mechanical problem*; ie… current overload (electrical) can cause switch points/contacts to burn and weld themselves, etc. *causing a Mechanical problem.*


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## ellen35

Joe,
The unit was never plugged in! The problem was the area of the inner red stop switch hit by an all too flimsy outer paddle. The inner red stop switch that actually turns the saw off was sticking. Nothing burned, nothing overloaded. This was just a bad switch design. Trust me when I tell you it was not electrical but rather a mechanical flaw in the design or the unit.
Ellen


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## SierraRick

I'm watching this.
They will not get any of my money if this is there *Policy *


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## JoeLyddon

OK, Ellen, you're so correct… I didn't know it was never plugged in! LOL


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## GregInMaryland

Good for you Ellen!

I think that I will continue to send my money north to Rob Lee (Lee Valley).

Greg


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## SierraRick

> As of this moment, 1155 views. The word is getting out!
> 
> - MT_Stringer


1272 views, I'd say so.


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## Kentuk55

Sorry to hear of your bad business with Peachtree. Like others above, I have a switch just like this that I put on my 1950's Craftsman table saw, and it it and has been working fine. I also have another that I purchased quite some time ago to put on my router table, but, I'm embarrassed to say, I haven't got round to hooking it up yet. Anyhoo, I hope you get some satisfaction some how. I'm frustrated for you girl. Good luck.


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## Gene01

Hey Ellen,
Do you frequent any other woodworking forums? Spread the word. I'll do the same and reference your LJ posts, if that's OK with you.


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## ellen35

Gene and other LJs
Please post this anywhere you wish. I'm a Luddite when it comes to Facebook and Twitter so I can't post there. I have posted on *** but it is a small but good site.
Ellen


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## JoeLyddon

Ellen, what is a Luddite… stupid question… but… 

Thank you…


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## Rayne

Eh, I have to agree with Peachtree on this one. Everyone takes chances buying from tradeshows and online. It costs money to ship and compensate people. Yes, they received a defective item, but unless you can personally get it to them as you would if you bought something from Target, Walmart, etc., you should pay the cost to ship it. I have no issues with this policy and have taken losses from it in the past as shipping was more than the cost of the item in question. The policy is clear and I took a chance. Not every company has the ability to compensate in this day and age. Also look at it from the dealer's perspective, if shipping was, say, $4, they'd have to pay $8 for the full exchange process on a $25 item…you're asking them to take a 32% hit on that transaction on top of shipping the defective item back to the manufacturer. Not too many companies can survive in that kind of environment and still be competitive. That's why I shop locally as much as possible except when the items I am ordering have a low chance of being defective or it's Amazon, since we know they'll compensate for the shipping. Just my perspective.


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## Hawaiilad

I have my sign all ready Ellen…where do you want me to march. A company sells a defective product and wants you to spend more of your hard earned money to have it replaced…..that doesn't sound right at all. Nope, I guess I will be looking at different places to spend my money. Thanks for sharing this and I would love to hear of the outcome


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## JJohnston

Funny that Peachtree says there are two sides to every story, then confirms that yes, that is in fact what we told her!


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## stan3443

I am going to the Columbus show in 2 weeks I will not be spending any money at peachtree


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## playingwithmywood

> Eh, I have to agree with Peachtree on this one. Everyone takes chances buying from tradeshows and online. It costs money to ship and compensate people. Yes, they received a defective item, but unless you can personally get it to them as you would if you bought something from Target, Walmart, etc., you should pay the cost to ship it.


This is faulty logic and here is why

customer 1 
buys item from vendor at trader show and they get home and the item is defective and company wants customer to pay to return defective item….

customer 2 
buy item mail order from vendor and take delivery and item is defective and company wants the customer to pay to return the defective item

SO

it is the customers obligation to pay with honest money and not commit a fraudulent transaction

same goes for the vendor to not deliver a fraudulent product…. in this case defective

so there is no way that the customer in either case should have to pay return shipping for a defective item to get back to the vendor….. the Vendor is the one that has violated this transaction

it it good that we have been made aware of a bad policy from a vendor I used to buy from cause I will not risk doing business with a company that treats customers this way


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## Rayne

> Eh, I have to agree with Peachtree on this one. Everyone takes chances buying from tradeshows and online. It costs money to ship and compensate people. Yes, they received a defective item, but unless you can personally get it to them as you would if you bought something from Target, Walmart, etc., you should pay the cost to ship it.
> 
> This is faulty logic and here is why
> 
> customer 1
> buys item from vendor at trader show and they get home and the item is defective and company wants customer to pay to return defective item….
> 
> customer 2
> buy item mail order from vendor and take delivery and item is defective and company wants the customer to pay to return the defective item
> 
> SO
> 
> it is the customers obligation to pay with honest money and not commit a fraudulent transaction
> 
> same goes for the vendor to not deliver a fraudulent product…. in this case defective
> 
> so there is no way that the customer in either case should have to pay return shipping for a defective item to get back to the vendor….. the Vendor is the one that has violated this transaction
> 
> it it good that we have been made aware of a bad policy from a vendor I used to buy from cause I will not risk doing business with a company that treats customers this way
> 
> - playingwithmywood


 By your logic, Walmart, Target, etc should refund us the gas money we used to return a defective merchandise by driving to their store which is never going to happen. It's the same hard earned money we use to drive our way to the store. This is no different. If you buy an item from a store that's way too far to drive, then yeah, you should pay for shipping because you took a risk buying from an out-of-the-way vendor. If a vendor has the ability to cover the cost of shipping both ways, then that's a perk, not a right, IMO.


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## playingwithmywood

I have never had a problem returning anything to Walmart, Target, Home Depot, Lowes

but this is beside the point

I bought something from rocker and the plastic cracked with light use over time and I called them and they mailed out replacement parts….. they did not have to do this but they did not loose a customer cause I can trust they will stand behind their products

It is all about Trust… you trust when you buy something it will work as described and deliver the value advertised…. and when a company has a policy that makes it harder to trust them then it is time to question if you should do any more business with them

I have bought from the company in question many times thank goodness it was trouble free cause I would have hated to have had a issue and then be educated on their policies like the customer here did

6 months later maybe I could understand the customer paying shipping if something broke after using the item after time within warranty time period but getting a defective item to start with it should have been no questions asked…. in reality it should have been no questions asked and they should have tossed in a $10 off your next purchase from us coupon in the returned box of a working item


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## Rayne

> I have never had a problem returning anything to Walmart, Target, Home Depot, Lowes
> 
> but this is beside the point


Actually this IS the point. The store's policy is clear as their website states. The product bought was defective. Peachtree is a distributor; not a manufacturer. You're asking them to take the hit for something they're not responsible for beyond distribution. You're also implying if you bought something from Target one day and found out it was defective and the NEAREST Target was, say, 2 hours away, that you will make them pay for the shipping to get it back to them for an exchange. If the customer lived near a Peachtree store, the customer would simply drive there and make an exchange; issue closed. You STILL paid for the gas to get there, so money came out of your pocket to do the exchange under any given circumstance.



> I bought something from rocker and the plastic cracked with light use over time and I called them and they mailed out replacement parts….. they did not have to do this but they did not loose a customer cause I can trust they will stand behind their products.
> 
> It is all about Trust… you trust when you buy something it will work as described and deliver the value advertised…. and when a company has a policy that makes it harder to trust them then it is time to question if you should do any more business with them


That's great they can do that. If they have the ability and have the parts, by all means, it's a Perk. It has nothing to do with trust. Peachtree was just abiding by their policy, nothing more. It was never hidden. Now if Peachtree was an actual manufacturer, like Rockler (I could be wrong about Rockler; they may just pay to have their name on the products; not sure) or Lee Valley in some of their products, then yes, I would expect them to pay for the shipping since They Made It. The manufacturer are the ones that needs to stand by their products; not the distributor, which, in this case, would be Fulton. I do see that Fulton is a division of Peachtree from an earlier post, but I know distributors and manufacturers work in different tandom. Fulton should be responsible for paying the shipping in this case since it came out of their plant defective. They have to stand by their product and take the hit.



> I have bought from the company in question many times thank goodness it was trouble free cause I would have hated to have had a issue and then be educated on their policies like the customer here did
> 
> 6 months later maybe I could understand the customer paying shipping if something broke after using the item after time within warranty time period but getting a defective item to start with it should have been no questions asked…. in reality it should have been no questions asked and they should have tossed in a $10 off your next purchase from us coupon in the returned box of a working item
> 
> - playingwithmywood


That's your perspective and I can respect that. It's not my view as I have said in my earlier posts. I don't expect special treatment when the policy is clear. I make every effort to understand what I'm buying and where I'm buying so I have my options laid out in case something goes wrong.


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## playingwithmywood

> Actually this IS the point. The store s policy is clear as their website states. The product bought was defective. Peachtree is a distributor; not a manufacturer. You re asking them to take the hit for something they re not responsible for beyond distribution.


well since she bought from the tradeshow was this policy stated to her at the time of purchase…. was it posted in the booth before purchase ????

in this case I think and I am making a assumption that Fulton is a repackaged brand of Peachtree so from my knowledge and I could be wrong I assume Peachtree would be the manufacture since it is a brand relabeled for them

not responsible for distributing a item they sold ?.... most good stores warranty the products they sell for a period of time after the sale say 30 days so in this case a lot of stores would deal with the defective product with customer and then the store would deal with the manufacturer…. this is a customer service and keeps the stores informed if a product they are selling is a piece of junk

its seems you just want to argue with everything I have said so hopefully some other people can chime in and try to help explain things to you….


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## TopamaxSurvivor

My greatest concern is the attitude about a safety product. The failure of that product could certainly have greater repercussions than a few dollars shipping. Even more concerning is continuing to sell them when there have been other issues with the same product.


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## wormil

This is why I buy stuff from Amazon. They aren't always the cheapest but they have very good customer service.


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## 280305

> My greatest concern is the attitude about a safety product. The failure of that product could certainly have greater repercussions than a few dollars shipping. Even more concerning is continuing to sell them when there have been other issues with the same product.
> 
> - TopamaxSurvivor


I agree completely.

This is a dangerous situation - an accident in which a switch does not turn off as a result of a faulty design could result in the death of hundreds of lawyers by drowning on their own saliva.

I am not familiar with Peachtree. But, I went to the web site and did some quick searches. I did not see this switch, but maybe I missed it.


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## ellen35

Here is the link on their website… scroll about half way down the page to item #3323

http://www.ptreeusa.com/routerControls.htm

That big stop paddle hits the smaller stop paddle high on the smaller rectangular stop button. See the picture above. The switch I have must be hit at the bottom of the small stop button and even then, the small button sticks. I am so glad I did not try to use it but rather tested it before I put it on my saw. This could have been disastrous.

*Again, this is not about money but rather quality and good customer service.* If this happened to a novice woodworker who didn't test the unit uninstalled… well we all know what might have happened.

*And, yes, Fulton is a subsidiary of Peachtree… they own Fulton.*

For those of you who suggested that I dispute it with my credit card company… guess what! Their credit card machine was "down" for about 30 minutes during the show and I paid cash. I just checked my receipt. So that won't work either. This is like a perfect storm!


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## patcollins

I read through this all and I have to say I think it is a bit ridiculous. Policies like this exist because customers are often pains in the ass that will break things themselves or crooks that try to scam the store out money/a new one.

My girlfriend is a claims manager at a retailer and she often tells me about some of the reasons listed for returns and some of them are frankly unbelievable. Someone tried to return an I-Pod claiming it didn't work, of course it didn't work they crafted a dummy one out of clay and put in the box so they had to eat that cost. She often has to check things that people have returned with the reason " didn't work" only to find the person did something stupid like didn't plug something in, charge the battery etc.

I think some people need to be a bit more realistic here, you are expecting a retail store that probably has a small margin to bend over backwards for your business.


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## patcollins

> That big stop paddle hits the smaller stop paddle high on the smaller rectangular stop button.


I actually have one of those switches in front of me and cant for the life of me figure oiut what you mean by the second paddle, I don't see it in this small picture either. Any chance you could take a closer picture of it and post?


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## NoThanks

I think the point is not regarding normal returns, I don't think anybody has a problem with that policy.
It's when the product arrives defective from the manufacturer. 
Why should the consumer have to pay more money? Your buying in good faith that the product is as stated.


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## mandatory66

Just had a slow shipping experience with Peach Tree. I waited a week for the product and then placed a call. I was put on hold and when the person came back she told me the item will ship today. I received the item 3 days later.
I suspect if I had not checked on the shipment I would still be waiting for it. If I can find an item at the same price somewhere else that's where I will buy in the future.


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## patcollins

> I think the point is not regarding normal returns, I don t think anybody has a problem with that policy.
> It s when the product arrives defective from the manufacturer.
> Why should the consumer have to pay more money? Your buying in good faith that the product is as stated.
> 
> - Iwud4u


The thing is you don't know Ellen except from her 2600 posts on here, I am sorry but you do not know someone from their internet postings. It could be that it isn't defective at all, it could be a poor design, or a design she simply doesn't like.

What I find disturbing is the mob mentality and the quickness some people are to grab the pitchforks and torches.

Remember a few months ago there was a review about a Hammer Jointer? The guy even made an internet video about how it was really off, it couldn't be fixed, he knew what he was talking about etc. The internet community shamed Hammer into sending a tech out and suddenly tyhe bad review goes away and the guy takes down the review for a good one and doesn't admit that he probably didn't know what he was doing?

My point is you have to take these reviews with a grain of salt and not be so quick to jump on some bandwagon because you don't know the person doing it.


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## playingwithmywood

> The thing is you don t know Ellen except from her 2600 posts on here, I am sorry but you do not know someone from their internet postings. It could be that it isn t defective at all, it could be a poor design, or a design she simply doesn t like.
> 
> What I find disturbing is the mob mentality and the quickness some people are to grab the pitchforks and torches.


It is true I do not Know Ellen
It is true Ellen could be Clueless ( I am giving her the benefit of the doubt as per her explanation)
It is true the owner of the company in question posted here about her problem 
It is true I am a past customer of this company many time
It is true that I was not aware of this policy cause lucky I never got a defective item

IT IS TRUE I DID NOT LIKE THE OWNERS RESPONSE TO DEALING WITH THIS CUSTOMER

WHY BECAUSE I COULD HAVE EASILY BEEN THIS CUSTOMER

any mob mentality you feel probably other people that have purchased from them not know this policy

AND ANY BANDWAGON People are jumping on is because
WE DO NOT WANT TO END UP WITH ELLEN'S Situation

AND WE WANT THIS COMPANY TO CHANGE THEIR POLICY BEFORE WE DO ANY MORE BUSINESS WITH THEM


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## patcollins

> AND ANY BANDWAGON People are jumping on is because
> WE DO NOT WANT TO END UP WITH ELLEN S Situation
> 
> AND WE WANT THIS COMPANY TO CHANGE THEIR POLICY BEFORE WE DO ANY MORE BUSINESS WITH THEM
> 
> - playingwithmywood


Oh the horror, it is possibly out $5 for return shipping, not laying in a bathtub full of ice in a fleabag motel missing a kidney.

In the mean time this rant that may turn out to be user error or something could have ruined someones business.


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## playingwithmywood

> In the mean time this rant that may turn out to be user error or something could have ruined someones business.


you seem to keep missing the point

if their business gets ruined it is only because people like me who have done business with the company in the past have been educated by the companies policy's that we had not been aware of before

we find the fact that having to pay return shipping for defective item unreasonable within the first 30 days receiving the item ( I added a reasonable time to this )

so at this point this discussion does not have anything to do with Ellen's situation and more to do with WE ALL COULD END UP BEING ELLEN upon placing future orders with this company

and yes the cost of return shipping could be very significant depending on what the item is
plus companies get better rates with shipping companies then a individual can get

SO yea it is a big deal when you enter into a transaction with someone for a item and that item does not work as represented


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## patcollins

> In the mean time this rant that may turn out to be user error or something could have ruined someones business.
> you seem to keep missing the point
> if their business gets ruined it is only because people like me who have done business with the company in the past have been educated by the companies policy s that we had not been aware of before
> 
> we find the fact that having to pay return shipping for defective item unreasonable within the first 30 days receiving the item ( I added a reasonable time to this )
> 
> so at this point this discussion does not have anything to do with Ellen s situation and more to do with WE ALL COULD END UP BEING ELLEN upon placing future orders with this company
> 
> and yes the cost of return shipping could be very significant depending on what the item is
> plus companies get better rates with shipping companies then a individual can get
> 
> SO yea it is a big deal when you enter into a transaction with someone for a item and that item does not work as represented
> 
> - playingwithmywood


Like I said above many returns to retail stores that get labeled as defective are not actually defective, it is an easy out for the person that simply changed their mind or simply couldn't figure out whatever they had.

Do you understand that a business simply does not eat these costs but in order to subsidize nuisance returns they may raise the prices on everything slightly or raise their shipping costs. In effect the people that don't return stuff end up subsidize the returns for people that do.

Policies like this exist because of people that abused liberal return policies in the past.


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## ellen35

Several people have questioned my truthfulness and my evaluation of the damaged item. You have also asked for pictures and since a picture is worth a thousand words, here are 5 pictures with explanation.

*Again, this is not about $5 or $8 it might cost to return this item. It is about principle and woodworker safety!* No one of us should be responsible for the cost of shipping a damaged item to a reputable company.

Let me also say that I have done the following:
1. reported the Power Tool Switch to the Consumer Product Safety Commission
2. filed a complaint with the Georgia BBB against Peachtree
3. posted here and tried to answer all questions and concerns

I would not have done the above on whim or because I am a dishonest person. I am a person of principle and integrity and do not make claims without justification. You all may not know me personally, but I have been an LJ for over 6 years. My credibility is pretty OK in that regard.

The first picture shows the actual unit:










This picture shows the actual start and stop buttons:










This picture shows the flimsy contact that hits the stop button. Note how high it is on the unit and how small the contact is relative to the actual interior of the paddle. It hits only the top half of the stop button.










This picture shows it hitting the top half of the stop button. Sorry for the quality of the picture but pressing down on the paddle and taking a picture at the same time is a little difficult:










Finally, this is a picture of me putting significant pressure on the paddle. Note: the stop button did not depress either with the paddle or without the paddle unless I pressed the red stop button at the very bottom of the button. Also, sometimes it didn't depress at all. It just jammed in the 'start' position.










I hope this helps the doubters to understand. Yes, no one lost a kidney but someone could have lost a finger or worse. This is nothing to take lightly.

Sorry for the long post but it has been a long 2 days.

Ellen


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## patcollins

Ellen, I was never questioning your truthfulness, your description just left a lot to be desired.

Personally after seeing it I would have just taken a pair of side cutters and cut off those ears that ride in the slot in the guard around the start button.

I also do not think it is defective, you would get another one exactly like it most likely. I would call that a poor design, the one I have in front of me is a bit different and does not have those ears.

That slot is meant for a rod to go through the green start button so that the start button does not get pressed accidentally, have no idea why they would put those ears on there.


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## grizzman

well ive been here on jocks over 5 years and ellen was one of my first buddies on here, and we have been personal friends for most of that time, and ellen is first rate one hell of a gal and one hell of a good woodworker, i was told of this purchase right after she bought it and told me how the guy at peachtree was a total jerk to her and told he she had to pay shipping back to them when the switch was bad from the start, having a bad part sold to you should not make you be the one to invest more of your money to have the situation made right, thats is not good business, ive always got ellens back and always will..you shouldnt have to come to a site like this to have a transaction made right, they should have made it right from the beginning.


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## moonls

I can confirm that the switch didn't work properly when I checked it for Ellen. A safety feature like the paddle switch needs to work every time it is pressed!


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## patcollins

Cut these off and it will work as intended


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## KayBee

I'm curious. Let's look at the numbers, these are pretty good 'rules of thumb' or ballpark estimates.

$30 switch with minus retail mark up of 100% equals $15. Since their company manufactures it, that saves them about $5. Now we're down to $10 for their cost.

All the rest of their expenses are part of the cost of doing business, including writing off losses and returns. And the product doesn't change the cost of doing business. (They're not selling cars and switches.)

So how much have they cost themselves because they don't want to give up $10?


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## Dusty56

@PatCollins 
*Note: the stop button did not depress either with the paddle or without the paddle unless I pressed the red stop button at the very bottom of the button. Also, sometimes it didn't depress at all. It just jammed in the 'start' position.*

*Neither Ellen nor anyone else should have to modify a brand new safety switch to possibly make it work !
*
I have been friends with Ellen for years and can vouch for her honesty and integrity and the simple fact that she knows what she is talking about. Her concern is for the safety of anyone that might purchase this product.


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## patcollins

> @PatCollins
> *Note: the stop button did not depress either with the paddle or without the paddle unless I pressed the red stop button at the very bottom of the button. Also, sometimes it didn't depress at all. It just jammed in the 'start' position.*
> 
> *Neither Ellen nor anyone else should have to modify a brand new safety switch to possibly make it work !
> *
> I have been friends with Ellen for years and can vouch for her honesty and integrity and the simple fact that she knows what she is talking about. Her concern is for the safety of anyone that might purchase this product.
> 
> - Dusty56


Is it really that different than taking out the throat plate of a brand new table saw and putting in a ZCI?

The review sure made it seem the concern was over paying for shipping back to Peach Tree to me. I am just offering a solution so she has a working safety switch.


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## Dusty56

What part of *the switch doesn't work with or without the paddle *don't you understand ?
The only thing you're offering her is a possible injury in the future if she came to rely on the switch after your modification ideas. Then who would be at fault ? The manufacturer ? Peachtree ??? NO, it would be Ellen !


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## patcollins

> What part of *the switch doesn t work with or without the paddle *don t you understand ?
> The only thing you re offering her is a possible injury in the future if she came to rely on the switch after your modification ideas. Then who would be at fault ? The manufacturer ? Peachtree ??? NO, it would be Ellen !
> 
> - Dusty56


I have to admit I looked right past that part and zeroed in on those tabs that rode in the slot of the on switch because they seem entirely unnecessary and too long at that.

I still think everyone is making a mountain out of a molehill over the return policy. I would wager that most online retailers other than the giants such as Amazon have this exact policy.


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## MT_Stringer

I have three of the Rockler brand paddle switches hooked up to routers. They work every time. Just bump the paddle and the router shuts down. The switch ellen bought should do the very same thing, but it doesn't.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

> Just had a slow shipping experience with Peach Tree. I waited a week for the product and then placed a call. I was put on hold and when the person came back she told me the item will ship today. I received the item 3 days later.
> I suspect if I had not checked on the shipment I would still be waiting for it. If I can find an item at the same price somewhere else that s where I will buy in the future.
> 
> - mandatory66


Geez, everyone will make a mistake or oversight once in a while. Even I do that ;-) Give them a break.


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## skywalker01

I side with peachtree. Imagie the lawsuits if they didn't have policies in place to cover peoples mistakes. We've all bought things that don't work as subscribed. And we've all been burned cause we didn't read the return policy. The item may have been defective. Return it as they say or move on to something else and don't lawyer up over a $30 item. I bought this same switch. It's cheap and crappily made. I had to cut off the tabs as someone suggested to make it work every time. I've bought plenty of other items at a super low cost and modified them to fit my needs, knowing full well they were not made well. But boy were they cheap and they got the particular job done that I needed. It is not anyones responsibility to look out for my health but my own. Woodworking is inherently dangerous whether you are new to it or a seasoned veteran. If I chop my finger off because I pushed an off switch and it didn't work, then I am to blame for sticking my finger in the blade with the power on still. Common sense. I still have eyes and ears. I can hear the blade running and I can see it running. Now if you are woodworking blind and deaf that's another story. 
If you think peachtree is bad you should read some of the stories about harbor freight. I buy acid brushes there every time I run out. A steal of a deal for an item that is well over priced at most wood working supply houses but I would never buy a hand held power tool from them because I just don't feel safe. I've done my research.


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## grizzman

i want to thank ellen for bringing this to our attention, not only is this site good for learning about wood work but were all here to help each other with tool purchases and whether or not we find good tools or bad tools, and i know we all want the best types of tools we can get for the money, when a bad tool is out there and we know its bad, then we should pass that information along, if there is a company that is good with there products and prices, we all want to know that as well, im not saying that this company is bad or is good, im just going with the facts, and i think that once everything is examined, then let the facts be known. thank you ellen for bringing this to our attention, and if there are other woodworkers her at lumberjocks, please do us the same justice, the tool review we have here has always been a good tool for us here, i know ive used it for making educated purchases and have gotten good tools from using it, and have found who is good to make purchases from, where are good deals and the same time, where you can get good tools for a good price.


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## JoeLyddon

*I'll bet any amount of money on this…*

*If this had been purchased from Rockler…* and Rockler had been called on it…

*Rockler would have settled the problem within SECONDS of the first call… 
No Questions asked!*

.

*QVC,* although not into woodworking, *would have done same thing WITHOUT a Phone Call being needed…*
On "Return" form, indicate the product was *Defective etc.,* use the *Return Label *that came with the product, *repack *it, put it in the *Mail*, and* Get a FULL Refund* as well as* NOT spending a penny for Return postage.*


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## BinghamtonEd

> I side with peachtree. Imagie the lawsuits if they didn t have policies in place to cover peoples mistakes. We ve all bought things that don t work as subscribed.


People's mistakes? What was Ellen's mistake here? The mistake was on the part of the manufacturer, so the policy should be that the manufacturer takes the loss as a consequence of producing the switch that does not work. The safety switch has one job, and it doesn't do it. If the manufacturer is producing a switch and marketing it as a safety device, they have a responsibility to make sure that it works safely. The only potential lawsuit I see here is that the switch doesn't do it's job and the customer ends up getting seriously hurt. God forbid responsibility be accepted.

If Peachtree is the middle man in all of this, and they would like to keep a customer, they need to follow up and make the customer happy, then take up the financial/quality aspect of it with their manufacturer. If the manufacturer refuses to stand behind their product, source another one who will, or don't sell the product, because at the end of the day, it's their business.


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## grizzman

Geez, everyone will make a mistake or oversight once in a while. Even I do that ;-) Give them a break.

- TopamaxSurvivor
[/QUOTE]

sorry bob but this is more than a mistake, when it comes to a tool that is made specifically for making a powertool more safe and you go to use it for the first time and it fails, then to me it just gave that woodworker a chance to be harmed, sure who is going to stick their hand into a running saw, but that isn't the point, they make a tool to bring safety to a power tool, in my book there is no leniency in that market, all it takes in one time…have we gotten so lackadaisical in our expectancy that we shrug off another tool made in china to be ok , ahh it doesn't work, i didn't think it would work, it comes from china, its ok….......bullpucky…..for the price that china charges for everything they make , it should work, and if Peachtree wants our business, then sell tools that work, and if they don't work, take it back at their cost, and either send me one that does, or refund my money, not a in store credit, if i lost my confidence in your store and what you sell, why should i be forced to buy something else from you, give me my money back, and if its not made in china, then whoever makes it should have better quality control . everyone like to dog things made in China….


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## patcollins

Pssst Grizzman he is talking about the guy complaining of their slow shipping.


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## NinjaAssassin

If I buy a product that ends up being legitimately defective - that is, it does not operate as intended, is it really a reasonable expectation for me to bear the cost of that defect in the form of return shipping? What if it were a bigger item and return shipping were $50 or so?

There are risks associated with running a business. One of those risks is selling a product or service that is faulty or otherwise defective. The business owner takes on that risk. The business owner represents the product as having certain qualities, function, ect. The customer, based on a number of factors one of them being the owner's representation of the product, purchases said product. If the product does not work as advertised, then the owner is responsible for that, not the customer. The owner may or may not have created the product but they are representing the product as good and the customer purchased at least partly because of that promise. It's up to the owner to develop a return system with the manufacturer (if they are not one and the same). But the customer should not be penalized because the business owner and manufacture made a mistake.

In my mind, if the company doesn't intend to cover return shipping of a *faulty* product, that needs to be explicitly stated. There is a legitimate difference between returning a product that works as advertised and returning one that doesn't. Expecting a customer to share in the financial burden of a faulty product (especially when not disclosed before hand) is bad customer service and, for me and many others, is a good reason not to do business with that company.


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## grizzman

oooppppsssss sorry bob, i didnt get it right, so sorry bob….you know me, im not a rabble rouser …..so sorry again


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## grizzman

thank you pat


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## nuttree

I am not personally interested in debating company policies, but will tell you that, in my humble opinion, Peachtree's stance on defective merchandise returns is archaic and ridiculous. I have purchased from them in the past without issue. I will not purchase from them in the future as a matter of principle. I do this for a living and view my relationships with vendors as more of a partnership. I will not "partner" with a vendor that doesn't have my back. Sounds like this is going to be a very expensive switch for Peachtree.


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## patcollins

> If I buy a product that ends up being legitimately defective - that is, it does not operate as intended, is it really a reasonable expectation for me to bear the cost of that defect in the form of return shipping? What if it were a bigger item and return shipping were $50 or so?
> 
> There are risks associated with running a business. One of those risks is selling a product or service that is faulty or otherwise defective.


The thing is you can either pay that cost ahead of time either built in by higher shipping costs, higher merchandise costs, or you can pay it later. To think the consumer won't pay for it one way or another is rather naive.


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## NoThanks

> The thing is you can either pay that cost ahead of time either built in by higher shipping costs, higher merchandise costs, or you can pay it later. To think the consumer won t pay for it one way or another is rather naive.
> 
> - patcollins


I would rather pay a few cents more knowing I can return a defective product without incurring more costs.
How do I know I'm not already paying a few cents more and not getting the service. Don't you think they have Already built in costs for these situations?


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## patcollins

> The thing is you can either pay that cost ahead of time either built in by higher shipping costs, higher merchandise costs, or you can pay it later. To think the consumer won t pay for it one way or another is rather naive.
> 
> - patcollins
> 
> I would rather pay a few cents more knowing I can return a defective product without incurring more costs.
> How do I know I m not already paying a few cents more and not getting the service. Don t you think they have Already built in costs for these situations?
> 
> - Iwud4u


Personally I would rather pay for what I actually use, not a fan of the cable TV model of paying for 50 channels I never watch.

I do understand that most people would rather pay more for something with some certainty than have some uncertainty, people are scared of the unknown, hence the lucrative business of those extended warranties.


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## NinjaAssassin

> If I buy a product that ends up being legitimately defective - that is, it does not operate as intended, is it really a reasonable expectation for me to bear the cost of that defect in the form of return shipping? What if it were a bigger item and return shipping were $50 or so?
> 
> There are risks associated with running a business. One of those risks is selling a product or service that is faulty or otherwise defective.
> 
> The thing is you can either pay that cost ahead of time either built in by higher shipping costs, higher merchandise costs, or you can pay it later. To think the consumer won t pay for it one way or another is rather naive.
> 
> - patcollins


Well, yes that's true so long as a profit is being made on the product. It really would be up to the company to decide what bit of that profit margin is "at risk." It appears this company is unwilling to put any of their profit margin at risk when it comes to rectifying a simple issue. You stated earlier that it's only $5. Well, I suppose that goes both ways, doesn't it? What's the investment in customer service and good will worth? According to many folks here, they're not going to do business with Peachtree again. It sounds like this will ultimately cost them quite a bit more in lost sales than the return shipping on a defective (or poorly designed) product.


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## Hawaiilad

I'm pretty sure Ellen sure did not expect all these posts about her problem with Peachtree. I know Amazon and a few other large companies have a great return policy regarding defective products they sell and ship, but this is what we deal with buying online….yea I do it all the time and yea, I have had to return damaged items, but the selling company have all paid for the return. Easy as can be to click and order and don't even need to put your pants on to do it, but these are the problems we will face from time to time. Peachtree or what ever Company that sells defective products (and I'm sure they didn't mean for that to happen) should always listen to the Customer a bit more before opening up there "Rule" book. So sorry you have had this problem Ellen


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## NinjaAssassin

I agree, Larry. Good post.


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## ellen35

I ordered a power switch from Grizzly this morning. I had to ask exactly which one would do what I wanted it to do and the customer service people took time with me and looked it up with me (not for me, but with me - we both looked at it on line together) - The cost for this switch from Grizzly was $11.50… the switch from Peachtree was $25. Seems to me that there was a cushion build into the Peachtree price (remember, they made the switch under their Fulton name). And… if the switch doesn't perform as advertised, I was assured that they would take it back and pay shipping. Somehow, I think this switch will work.

Just to clarify… I have no plans to sue Peachtree. My motive here is to make sure no one else gets caught up in this ridiculous unstated policy. I think Mr. Hughes' posting here (his first, by the way) was telling… his attitude comes across as distain for the customer… just like his customer service rep.

Thank you all again for your support in this.

Ellen


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## TopamaxSurvivor

> oooppppsssss sorry bob, i didnt get it right, so sorry bob….you know me, im not a rabble rouser …..so sorry again
> 
> - grizzman


Not a problem Grizz. I knew you did not realize I commented on the slow shipping post as being a reason to black ball a company.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

> I ordered a power switch from Grizzly this morning. I had to ask exactly which one would do what I wanted it to do and the customer service people took time with me and looked it up with me (not for me, but with me - we both looked at it on line together) -
> Ellen
> 
> - ellen35


One thing that would be helpful on these switches is if they were HP rated instead of just amps rated.


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## Hawaiilad

Thanks for the update Ellen…it will be good to hear how well the switch works for your saw. Sounds like customer service from Grizzly is working with you already.


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## Ocelot

I ordered something from Rockler that was to be delivered by the USPS. It never arrived, though USPS marked it as delivered. I called. Rockler sent another - and told me if the original item arrived, I should keep it as a gift. Now I always thought Rocker's prices where high, but since then I've placed a couple more orders.

Peachtree may be "right", but being "right" in this case may not be the most proffitable stance in the long run.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

> I ordered something from Rockler that was to be delivered by the USPS. It never arrived, though USPS marked it as delivered. I called. Rockler sent another - and told me if the original item arrived, I should keep it as a gift.
> - Ocelot


Everyday during the holiday season, the local news shows security videos of thieves that follow UPS and Fed EX trucks picking up deliveries. If the big online retailers did not replace those missing items, I think they would take a big hit and brick and mortar would be the beneficiary.


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## Ocelot

@TopomaxSurvivor,

Actually, shortly before this package went missing, I had filed a complaint with the PO about my packages being crushed - and it seemed to me that my "letter carrier" was retaliating by not delivering my packages. I eventually recieved both packages - and have ordered (and received) more stuff from Rockler since then.

I guess the "letter carrier" got over it.

-Paul


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## JoeLyddon

Ellen,

GREAT!!

Grizzly is also a very good company to do business with… They care!

Would it be too much trouble to post a Link to the Switch you bought from Grizzly?

I hope someone from Peachtree is aware of this Thread…

Thank you for the updates…


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## ellen35

Here you go, Joe.

www.grizzley.com
put in the search box: H8243 - 110/220V Paddle On/Off Switch


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## bigfoot11

Thanks for the feedback, this is enough for me never to order from them. Add in the issue with the bit sharpening set that OnhillWW mentioned in clearly not being as described on the site, I'll stay away from them.


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## JoeLyddon

Ellen, Thank you very much…

*This looks* a lot like what the other one was… I hope it's NOT made by the same Company! LOL

... one thing For Sure… You will not have to worry about getting what you want & need!

Thank you very much.


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## Isaaq

Ellen thank you for letting us know about this attitude. I'll never buy anything from PT, since this is the case. In fact I had a couple of things I've meant to buy from them and get them somewhere else!


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## ncdon

1. If I buy a "safety related Item" I shouldn't have to modify it to either make it work properly or safely.
2. Many companies apparently believe that it's in their best interest to have a customer centric return policy. Over the past few years I have either received replacement parts (and been told to dispose of the defective part) or return shipping documents. Several companies including Rockler, Rikon, HP, amazon, do that routinely.
3. I know I'll take hit for this but. Since Ellen did not by her switch on line I don't believe she is responsible for knowing the stores internet posted return policy. I doubt that Peachtree posts their return policy at the shows.
4. If peachtree feels that low prices trumps customer Service they won't find me as a shopper.

Thanks for the tip Ellen.


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## skywalker01

OP: I'm pretty good with equipment having done this for many years but I had another woodworker also check it out. It is clear that the unit was defective. I called Peachtree this morning thinking that a good company would replace the unit at no charge. Well, was I wrong!!! I talked with a person in sales and was told that they would replace it if I shipped it back to them AT MY EXPENSE! I explained that the unit was defective and that shipping both ways should be at their expense. When I got nowhere, I asked to speak to a supervisor and talked with David. It seems that Peachtree's policy is that it is MY responsibility to get it to THEM at my expense. Then they will look at it and repair or replace the item and, if it is defective, they will pay return shipping

They did offer to replace it at no cost. If you were as good with equipment as you say then they would have found you to be right once it got to them and they would send you a new one. So does it come down to the $13 to ship it to them? Did they say that would not be given back to you as well when it was found to be defective? I feel like they would have given you that money back too and that was further proven by the fact that they posted in this thread that very fact. They have policies for a reason and they like to stick to them. Not every company has the ability to do what rockler and other companies do and their policies may be different. They also have the ability to go outside of their policies just like peachtree. Only time will tell who wins in that situation. My issue is with a lot of posters here saying that they would never buy from peachtree because of your situation, peachtree said they would fix it and pay shipping, but that didn't end up being good enough for anyone.
I really dislike posting about things of this nature on public forums because there are a lot of people who do not understand nor care about the success or failure of online retailers. Also, it is impossible to get anyone who is convinced that a company is malicious or out to harm it's customers, to think otherwise . I can only say that if you think you can do it better then go out and start your own .com and use policies that make you successful. I am a part owner in one and as such have to deal with these issues every day so it hits especially close to home. I employ 13 Americans, some with families and I care about their future so I have to make policies to make sure that we don't close down like so many .com's do. Like peachtree stated in their post above, we also almost closed down due to problems and the downturn in the economy. Our policy changes and good customer service allowed us to stay in business and hire more local people to help.


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## ellen35

Please re-read the Peachtree post - they are willing to give me a store credit for the shipping if they find the unit defective. They are not willing to repay my shipping cost.
They are not just a .com but have a presence in something like 20 woodworking shows across the county. 
This is a safety issue. This is an issue of integrity and of good customer service. 
If Peachtree cannot offer good customer service regarding defective items that THEY manufacture under their subsidiary, then maybe they should reconsider doing business with woodworkers.
The policy does not state that it applies to refunds of shipping costs when an item is defective.
No reputable company has a policy that shafts the customer twice… once for shipping and once for a defective product.


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## Dedvw

Luke

I ran my own business for five years and bent over backwards to keep customers happy. I wasn't the cheapest gig in town, but I answered every call and took some losses doing so. This call is probably going to give Peachtree some losses and maybe they should restructure their policies accordingly. But to come on here and tell us that you "have families to care about" is not unique among business owners. Its also not what customers need or want to hear from people they are doing business with.

Bottom line is everyone on here will spend their money where they want, dependent on whatever factors they choose. This challenge is no different for any other business. Maybe you should get over that people stick together with common beliefs.


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## SierraRick

I employ 13 Americans, some with families and I care about their future so I have to make policies to make sure that we don't close down like so many .com's do. Like peachtree stated in their post above, we also almost closed down due to problems and the downturn in the economy. Our policy changes and good customer service allowed us to stay in business and hire more local people to help.

Good on you Luke,

But If I buy something that I thought was to keep my guys safe and didn't work? 
How do you think I would feel?

That's Ellen whole point.

And they don't want to be the ones who say "we are selling a bad product."

Rick


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## Dusty56

*Luke*, I don't know what story you were reading from Peachtree, but it wasn't the same one everyone else here has read ! Who the hell wants store credit from arrogant morons ? Why would anyone want to spend another cent with a business that treats its customers in this manner ? Put your glasses on and reread the Peachtree comment, or have someone read it to you…ALL of the words this time ! 
Big difference between a complete refund and store credit *IF* *they* decide Ellen's switch was defective !


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## skywalker01

Dusty, You don't have to get so angry….

Is David not saying that he will return the shipping costs that Ellen will take on in the form of a store credit? That is outside of their policy. If that is peachtrees policy then david is being nice in giving store credit for the shipping costs correct? What am I missing? Check his post again. I believe he is talking about her costs to get it back to them… At least that's what I'm reading since that's the only thing outside of their policy.
As someone said above, would we expect that Home depot should pay for your gas and time to get back to their store and return a defective item?

The other issue, Ellen, is that they have no idea if the item is defective or not until they get it back and check it out for themselves.

Peachtree David's post :I am willing to make an exception to our policies in this situation. If the item is truly defective once we get it back we will reimburse the return shipping cost in a form of a store credit.


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## donbee

This topic has exceeded my patience.

I will stop following.

It's clear to me that Peachtree is not the company I want to trust.

Don


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## patcollins

> Please re-read the Peachtree post - they are willing to give me a store credit for the shipping if they find the unit defective. They are not willing to repay my shipping cost.
> They are not just a .com but have a presence in something like 20 woodworking shows across the county.
> *This is a safety issue.* T
> - ellen35


It only became a safety issue once they refused to pay for you to ship it back to them.


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## NinjaAssassin

Luke, store credit isn't a reimbursement. It can only be spent at their store, thus they're not addressing the shipping at all but basically giving her a "free gift" of her choice equal to the amount of the shipping. She's still out that money.


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## ellen35

Pat,
Why do you think I wanted to ship it back??? It was because it was defective in a way that presented a safety issue. The poor customer service came about when they decided I should pay the shipping. This is really about 2 issues… not caring that they are selling a defective product AND making me pay for their mistake.

As for the store credit… why would I EVER do business with this company? A store credit is a way of getting you to spend more money at the store. Usually, the credit is a portion of what it would cost to buy something. Also, I have the sales slip which I, unfortunately, paid in cash.

Sorry for the rant….
Ellen


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## patcollins

> As for the store credit… why would I EVER do business with this company? A store credit is a way of getting you to spend more money at the store. Usually, the credit is a portion of what it would cost to buy something. Also, I have the sales slip which I, unfortunately, paid in cash.
> 
> Sorry for the rant….
> Ellen
> 
> - ellen35


So you would rather be completely out the original amount you paid for the switch? Makes sense to me.


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## ellen35

Pat,
This is not about money. You can't seem to grasp that. And yes, I'd rather be out $25 than spend a single cent at Peachtree or return their switch.
Ellen


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## patcollins

> Pat,
> This is not about money. You can t seem to grasp that. And yes, I d rather be out $25 than spend a single cent at Peachtree or return their switch.
> Ellen
> 
> - ellen35


Oh I understand it alright, I just think it is beyond silly is all.


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## Hawaiilad

When Ellen started this post I was surprised to hear Peachtree would not just say to send the defective item back and it will be replaced right away at their cost. Was it their fault something defective was sold and shipped from their store….I'm pretty sure they were unaware it was defective, but their bad customer service should be shared with other woodworkers just like we share good results with Companies that most people are thankful for. but it seems some disagree with this. But Luke and Patcollins I think you have gone out of your way to get your feelings across to others….we get it, you disagree. Not every purchase ends up the same, so therefore how can a store set a policy for every sale. We have owned our business for over 20 years and yea, I don't like returns, but it's part of the business, and I would rather replace item and shipping cost that to read all these Posts and have others read them as well….just my 2 cents worth


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## playingwithmywood

I think it is really bad the the People in charge have Peachtree have come back here to respond to the additional comments made …. totally ignoring this thread as it grows seems like even a better reason to not do business with them in the future


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## ellen35

I believe this is the final installment of this saga. I received the following message from the Consumer Product Safety Commission. I still have the unit and will keep it as a reminder. Thanks to all who posted, read and understand.
Ellen

The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) has posted your Report No. 20150115-82DAE-2147436462 on SaferProducts.gov. Other people can now search for and see your Report.

If you have any questions, please visit www.SaferProducts.gov, or call (800) 638-2772.

Thank you for using SaferProducts.gov


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## JoeLyddon

Very good Ellen

*It's nice to see this... I didn't know the site existed.*

Thank you very much.


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## playingwithmywood

Hey Peachtree….. look all the trouble you would have stopped had you just handled this issues properly to start with…

Peachtree…. I still get your sales emails but you have lost a customer because of this and I will not do business with you again until Ellen gets a refund

#istandwithellen #giveellenarefund #boycottpeachtreewoodworking


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## ohtimberwolf

I'm sure this will really kill them but I will not even consider them as a source any longer. Just sayin!


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## JoeLyddon

> I m sure this will really kill them but I will not even consider them as a source any longer. Just sayin!
> 
> - ohtimberwolf


They will know there is damage done… and I'm sure we really CARE about what they do… I sure will NOT BUY anything from them again, now…


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## Grumpymike

Joe, I have also stopped buying from Peachtree, There are so many other suppliers out there that are so much easier to deal with when there is a problem and truly provide customer service.

They may have gotten to keep Ellen's $25, but it cost them several hundred of my dollars, (Rockler and Grizzly have really appreciated that.)


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