# A tale of two gates...



## dschlic1 (Jan 3, 2013)

I saw a segment on American Woodshop were Scott Phillips had some arbor gates blow off during a storm. He had constructed these gates out of cedar using pocket hole screws to fasten the frame members together. The pocket hole screws pulled out of the wood in some cases breaking it. His solution was to use white oak for the frames and again use pocket hole screws.

A year or so ago I built an arbor gate for my home. The gate frame is made out of 2×4 pressure treated lumber. For the joints I used half lap joints glued and screwed. This gate survived a near direct hit from Hurricane Irma without any issues what so ever.

I think I am going to stick with traditional wood joints for load bearing joints!


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

That's right! Pocket hole joints may work good for cabinet carcass building, but I would never use them on a stressed joint. I wouldn't use them anyway, bought a jig almost 20 years ago and haven't used it in 18. LOL


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

You see him do a lot of things with pocket screws that strike most of us the wrong way (I suspect). He put a shelf in their bedroom that was supported by a couple of hefty corbels. He actually fastened the corbels to the wall with pocket screws and then plugged the holes! These were the really large pocket screws…but still.


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

Scott Phillips drives me nuts! 
I can't watch that show without yelling at my TV.

And yes, pocket screws do not make very strong joints, IMHO.


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## ChefHDAN (Aug 7, 2010)

If i need a WW fix and he's the only thing on and my internet is down so that I can't go to youtube, I'll watch him for a little bit anyway, but like DS I start yelling at the TV, .. for the life of me I can't understand how he uses stock, always seems to cut the piece he wants right of the middle of something, leaving weird assed offcut shapes that are good for nothing but firewood….


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## tool_junkie (Jun 23, 2011)

Scott Phillips??? No, Thank you!

I am just a novice and still some of his wood working techniques look dangerous to me. Over all, there doesn't seem to be a method to the madness on his TV show.

dschlic1, I see you are in Valrico. Hopefully you guys didn't have huge damage due to Irma. I am in Clearwater and thankfully, we escaped the damage they were forecasting for us.


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

When I watch Scott Phillips I yell at the TV
When I yell at the TV, the dog goes and hides.
When the dog goes and hides, the wife gets worried.
When the wife gets worried, she asks me lots of questions I have no answers for.
When I can't answer my wife's questions, I get cranky
When I get cranky, I hafta sleep on the couch.

Don't sleep on the couch - don't watch Scott Phillips.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

Yup, I agree with you all. Scott Phillips might be a very nice guy but he's the last person/show I'd chose to watch to learn anything. I've seen him pull some of the most boneheaded nonsense with pocket holes. When he's on I change the channel. It would be a waste of 30 minutes better spent else where.


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## dschlic1 (Jan 3, 2013)

Tool_junkie: No real damage. A lot of branches and leaves in the yard. Did not lose power, Internet or water even though the storm passed within 15 miles of our home.

The only reason I sometimes watch American Woodshop is because it follows Woodsmith TV on our local PBS station.


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## tool_junkie (Jun 23, 2011)

> Tool_junkie: No real damage. A lot of branches and leaves in the yard. Did not lose power, Internet or water even though the storm passed within 15 miles of our home.
> 
> The only reason I sometimes watch American Woodshop is because it follows Woodsmith TV on our local PBS station.
> 
> - dschlic1


Glad to hear things stayed well on your side. Here in Clearwater, power was out for 3 to 4 days depending on the neighborhood. For me, I promptly switch channels right after Woodsmith Shop. Can't take Scott Phillips' torture anymore.


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## dschlic1 (Jan 3, 2013)

I never have time to watch TV Saturday morning so I record it to watch later.


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

Wouldn't it be funny if Scott Phillips is actually a Lumberjock with a pseudonym handle and he is reading this?
Sorry Scott. TV Entertainment and Educational TV are rarely the same thing.

EDIT: dschlic1 - sorry for hijacking your thread.


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## cathode (May 18, 2014)

One thing I've noticed is that the hole drilled for most pocket screws leaves very little wood left under the head of the screw. I doubt the screw threads pull out, but rather the wood under the head probably shears from the rest of the part.

Imagine cutting 1/2" off the end of a 2×4. Now fasten that to a surface with a screw running through (parallel to) the end-grain. The wood directly under the screw head would probably hold well but there's not enough material for the rest of the piece to be strong. You could easily break the wood along the growth ring lines.

I'm guessing this is 99% why pocket screws fail, when they're loaded in tension.

On the other hand, pocket screws seem great when loaded in shear, which is probably what they were designed for originally.


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## dschlic1 (Jan 3, 2013)

The actual mode of failure in this case was the threaded end. It looked like some of the wood had split apart.


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