# $#)(*#!!!! Txxxbxxd hide "glue" re-glue strength?



## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

In this thread I vented about how weak Titebond hide glue is.

Well, I'd already used it for edge-joining some of the boards on the composer's desk I'm working on now, and sure enough: the ($*# started to come apart. See pix.

So I used a heat gun to melt the hide glue and just re-clamped it, hoping it'll be okay when it cures.

HERE'S MY QUESTION:

Will it, or should I put in a screw from underneath to be safe? It's going to be hidden, and I'll sink it and cover it with putty.

TIA


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

I still don't know why some iPhone photos refuse to post the right way up. Well, it doesn't matter.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

A screw seems a little bit over kill. How about a finish nail. The good thing about finish nails is they hold well but sometimes will allow a little bit of wood movement. What kinda connection do you have in the corner I hope its more then a butt joint.
Liquid hide glue sucks

Good Luck


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## CWWoodworking (Nov 28, 2017)

Get rid of that crap and use real glue.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

> Get rid of that crap and use real glue.
> 
> - CWWoodworking


I agree. After a few failures I start going with what I know works. Sometimes it don't need to be fancy, just hit the nail with the hammer and drive it in.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

Really? You guys think I should get rid of that crap just because it sucks whale dingus and almost cost me $800 in shipping here and back again across the country?

I discovered that it's great for anything other than using to glue wood after I'd already started. Most of this project is done with regular glue, but that panel is was before I learned the lesson.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

Good idea using a finish nail. Thanks.

Which corner, Aj? If you mean the rear corners, they have dowels. The shelf next to the crack has pocket hole screws underneath plus glue. It has to hold a 60 pound piano keyboard.

This is the eighth one of these I've made. The only one that failed after being shipped was an edge joint that used that crappy liquid hide glue.


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## CWWoodworking (Nov 28, 2017)

> Really? You guys think I should get rid of that crap just because it sucks whale dingus and almost cost me $800 in shipping here and back again across the country?
> 
> I discovered that it's great for anything other than using to glue wood after I'd already started. Most of this project is done with regular glue, but that panel is was before I learned the lesson.
> 
> - nickbatz


Well, re-do it. Don't risk a repair on something that's gonna fail again.

Do it right and consider it a lesson learned.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

> Well, re-do it. Don't risk a repair on something that's gonna fail again.
> 
> Do it right and consider it a lesson learned.
> 
> - CWWoodworking


Well yeah. The only parts of this desk with that ********************ty glue are the sides and rear of the frame, and the lower shelf right next to where the crack is. While it was unlikely that the side panel would fail where it did, it's less likely anywhere else, because every piece is also secured by another part.

The corners of the frame are glued with real glue, as is the top shelf.

I think I'll be okay.

By the way, Aj: usually I cut a dado for the keyboard shelf, but in this case it would have required more walnut boards due to the lengths of what was available in the lumberyard. So it's pocket holes - not that I'm above using them anyway.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

> Well, re-do it. Don't risk a repair on something that's gonna fail again.
> 
> Do it right and consider it a lesson learned.
> 
> - CWWoodworking


Well yeah. The only parts of this desk with that ********************ty glue are the sides and rear of the frame, and the lower shelf right next to where the crack is. While it was unlikely that the side panel would fail where it did, it s less likely anywhere else, because every piece is also secured by another part.

The corners of the frame are glued with real glue, as are the top shelf and sliding desktop.

I think I ll be okay.

By the way, Aj: usually I cut a dado for the keyboard shelf, but in this case it would have required more walnut boards due to the lengths of what was available in the lumberyard. So it s pocket holes - not that I m above using them anyway. 

- nickbatz
[/QUOTE]


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

You're clearly struggling with hide glue. I think much of the problem is that you chose an inferior product to work with. Titebond makes outstanding adhesives, but I would never recommend their hide glue.

Re-glue it with Titebond I, II or III and move on. Sometime when you have the opportunity, experiment with hide glue. If you want to use liquid, go with Old Brown Glue. Or my favorite liquid protein glue-fish glue.

Hide glue, hot or liquid, is not for beginners. I'm not suggesting you're a beginner woodworker. Your work that you've posted is excellent. However, it's a very bad move to use any technique you haven't proven yourself expert in when building a project you intend to deliver.

Hide glue-or protein glue in general-is an excellent adhesive that's been around for centuries. It's the best glue for many situations and offers advantages that no other glue can match. Learning to use it successfully will greatly enhance your options for adhesives. Just don't use it-or anything-you haven't worked with before. That will always come back to bite you.

Another issue with protein glues is that they have a shelf life once mixed. There are tests you can do to check if it's still viable. Learn them and use them. I've had liquid hide glue go south sitting in the fridge. It wouldn't have glued anything well enough to even defy gravity. Hide glue in its dry form has an indefinite shelf life.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

> Good idea using a finish nail. Thanks.
> 
> Which corner, Aj? If you mean the rear corners, they have dowels. The shelf next to the crack has pocket hole screws underneath plus glue. It has to hold a 60 pound piano keyboard.
> 
> ...


That's cool with me I'm not against using screws. I also have a pocket screw jigamathingy. 

Good Luck Nick


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

> You re clearly struggling with hide glue. I think much of the problem is that you chose an inferior product to work with. Titebond makes outstanding adhesives, but I would never recommend their hide glue.
> 
> Re-glue it with Titebond I, II or III and move on. Sometime when you have the opportunity, experiment with hide glue. If you want to use liquid, go with Old Brown Glue. Or my favorite liquid protein glue-fish glue.
> 
> ...


As you said, the problem is the glue. Yes, I switched to Titebond's regular glue partway through making this desk after the previous one arrived - across the country - with a panel that came apart at the edge joint.

And while I now feel like I know what I'm doing within my narrow comfort zone, I absolutely am a beginning woodworker - about three years' experience. These composer's desks are a side-side-side business, but I've been fortunate to have three orders in a row during the pandemic.

(Actually, I've been even more fortunate to have landed a new job in my actual field. Not many people like their jobs, fewer get hired in the middle of an economic crisis, and even fewer 64-year-olds can say any of that at any time!)


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

Thanks Aj.


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## ac0rn (Jan 31, 2020)

For the sake of the side business. Good reviews go a long way. A frustrated client's poor or bad reviews can last for years, and indeed do. Good customer service is vital. Explain the trouble to your client, but offer to make them a new desk at no further expense to them. That customer will sing praises for your business.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

For heaven's sake. Do you think I would just abandon someone after pouring heart and soul into making a custom desk like this?!

I mean, it's not for the sake of the side business, it's for the sake of being a decent human being! The guy is delighted with his desk, and he was able to get it fixed locally.

This is something I do mostly because I enjoy it. The pay isn't dog poop, and once again I was very happy to have the projects during the pandemic, but it's not going to make me rich.


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## ac0rn (Jan 31, 2020)

My sincere apology for having upset you, that was not my intention.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

No problem! I'm actually not upset, just adamant.

But thanks, I appreciate it.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

But I admit to being upset at what's going on in our country right now, so maybe I am a little bit on edge.


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