# Contractors Saw



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Hey Tom
Thanks for the review. I'm so pleased that this saw works so well. I recommend it to each and every student that ask me what table saw to buy even though I don't own one just the safety aspect it's worth the money. Good review.


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## Miket (Jan 27, 2008)

Good job!

Why buy a car without airbags.

Feels good using a nice saw, huh?


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## noknot (Dec 23, 2008)

I can only dream, the co pay is still lower than that so the wife wont let me get it LOL. Thanks for rubbing it in.


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## Splinterman (Mar 13, 2009)

Now that is one mean saw.


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## pat44 (Feb 11, 2009)

Tom,

Nice purchase. How is the dust collection?


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## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

That is a really nice saw, Tom. It is all the saw you are ever going to need and, with the safety feature, this is money well spent.


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## ropedog (Mar 26, 2008)

sounds like a great saw, i would like to read your review after dragging that beast from jobsite to jobsite for a year though.


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## brewtang (Oct 12, 2008)

They are also coming out with a new Professional cabinet saw…their current saws are the Industrial cabs. Its going to be in the 3000 range and have the 3hp motor. It's a very good middle step between the two saws they have now. Pretty much a direct shot at Delta and the new Unisaw.


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

Ya sure….another wimp afraid to loose a few fingers…c'mon man up, and stop with the expensive safety devices. You Hollywood types with your money and all your fingers in tact, you think you know everything…Dare to be different and join the manley club, where it takes two hands to order five beers….

Sorry I don't know what came over me..I think another LJ was being channeled trough me..Great saw…you will love it..I wish I could afford a saw stop!


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## Wingstress (Oct 10, 2008)

Dave, that was hilarious! I thought you were serious for a second… I'm in Simsbury by the way…


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## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

Ahhh, Brad-Nailor, shame on yas!

Let's look at the money: Wingstress got one helluva deal here. With all the extras, including another brake for just the dado, this saw only cost him $2300! Not a bad price. All of that should cost, list, more than $2500! HD has been offering the cast iron TS3660's for ~$400 since the release of the granite top models.

It isn't just manly… SawStop is charging one helluva lot for their safety features.

BTW, Brad-Nailor, what are you sawing with? Have you plunked down your >$2k for a SawStop yet?


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

EE I wish…I am going to have to settle with a dangerous model. I love saw stops..I have been following the technology since I first heard about it before they even released their first saw. I think its a great idea, and I'm sure the long list of people that still have fingers because of it will agree!

Tom…Howdy neighbor! Did your signature say before that you were in Simsbury? I know quite a few people that live in Simsbury! I was hoping you would get the joke..after I posted it I thought…gee I hope nobody thinks I was serious!


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## Wingstress (Oct 10, 2008)

I doubt anyone thought you were serious. I thought it was funny. Yeah, we're neighbors… I actually just moved to Simsbury, I was in East Granby the last 4 years and East Hartford for 2 Years before that…


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## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

I think its a great idea, and I'm sure the long list of people that still have fingers because of it will agree!

[heavy sigh] ...not joking anymore, are you?

And what long list would that be? Where might I get a copy? This is exactly the kind of statement that woodchuck railed against when everybody all but drove him from this forum: You gotta have a SawStop because you *will* have an accident and you *will *lose your fingers.

According to this survey, the vast majority of injuries in the shop (almost 90%) required only home first aid. It is not a given that you will have an accident and, if you do have an accident, it is not a given that you will lose fingers. So drop the scare tactics, OK?

I like this review: it actually sounds like this is a nice table saw excluding the safety features - if you have that kind of long green to shell out for a saw.


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## Elaine (Jun 24, 2008)

Great Buy! Oh if I only could get out of the house…. The only thing I'd warn people of with this saw, do not use cheap blades. I was at a local woodworking establishment where one of the employees was demonstrating the saw a couple years ago. He didn't want to waste the better blade and put in what he referred to as "a cheap blade". The infamous hotdog was used to demonstrate the safety system. Well, the brake hit the blade as it is supposed to… A tooth or two broke off that "cheap blade" and exited the housing, flying out and into the dozen or so people standing around the saw. It happened so fast, the only ones who ducked were those of us who have worked in the lumber industry. Luckily for everyone there, no one was hurt.


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## baller (Nov 14, 2008)

elaine, excellent point! Logical thinking had me saying to myself that exact same thing….so has it been proven (more importantly do they gaurantee) then that absolutely NO shrapnel will exit the top if you use certain blades (probably only theirs)? do they sell an insurance plan with that too? (i'm almost joking, but not lol) in my mind i pictured what you said happening, only the chip flying into my neck or something, potentially being WORSE than losing just a finger….do i need to invest in a lead vest 'n modify a catcher's helmet or something? i am often working by myself, with a cell phone within reach, but always worried if something happened 'n i couldn't even make it to that…heard lots of stories

i know, i'm probably just a wuss…but with something like 1/2 the bankruptcy's being filed due in sole or large part to health care costs, i think any one of us knows it can only take 1 second, 1 moment of lack of focus, to become a statistic.


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

OK, I don't want to gum up Toms fine review with another argument for and against saw stop technology. EEengineer you are a master of reading things into statements that aren't there. When did I ever say that you have to have a saw stop or you will get hurt? When did I say that if you have an accident that you will loose a finger? My statement is referring to anyone who might have had a run in with a table saw that might have resulted in loosing a digit, but didn't end that way because of the saw stop safety technology. What it comes down to is no matter how careful and experienced you are accidents happen. I look at the saw stop safety brake as a set of air bags for your table saw…you hope they never get used but if something happens they will be there to hopefully lessen the amount of injury sustained. Why does it have to be twisted into some kind of table saw revolt…. it's attitudes like yours and Woodchucks that the big table saw manufacturers took, to try and prevent this technology from ever coming to fruition. The way I see it is..if you have the money and you want the safety valve on your saw, then spend the money and get it. If you don't feel it is necessary then don't get it..its that simple. I don't stand here and insist that if you don't buy a saw stop you will loose fingers..but conversely, if you and Woodchuck want to stick your heads in the sand like a couple of ostriches, and insist that its all a big scam and a scare tactic to bilk people out of their money than thats your hang up. So in answer to your post…no I will not drop the scare tactics, because they are not scare tactics…they are just facts. And by the way if you do 5 minutes of research, you can find plenty of testimonials from people that would have been seriously maimed or injured but weren't because when they had their moment of unclarity, their second of non focus, they were using a saw stop not a convectional saw.


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## WoodWrangler (Jan 9, 2008)

Great review and you sound VERY excited.

As for the comedy of reply's in this thread … they are typical. There is always someone fighting technology, or arguing just to argue … my grandmother says "stirring the pot". Don't give them the time of day … just take it for what it's worth. All feedback is … well, feedback. You can buy into it-or not, and most of us read it as it is-which ain't much.

IMHO the SawStop is a great invention and a huge leap forward for woodworkers. It not only makes one more comfortable at the saw, it makes one more aware too. Not even counting the brake, the saw is so well designed and thought out that it's an absolute joy to use.

And the recommendation of using a good blade is a good one. I mean, why would you buy a GREAT saw and put a $10 blade on it anyway? Doesn't make an sense. SawStop provides a decent quality carbide blade .. stick with that or better and you'll be good. The fear of shrapnel is silly … like being fearful of the burn your airbag will give your skin when it deploys-I'll take that any day!

Enjoy the saw and thanks for the review!


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## Milo (Apr 24, 2009)

Ah, can't have a SawStop review without an argument, and I can't read one without becoming lime green with envy… ;-)

Congrats Tom! I know how you feel about a new saw, and safty is my #1 concern also. I'll be going about it differently, but if I could, I'd be SawStopping too.


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

Ahh Tom..I guess there was at least ONE person that didn't think I was kidding!


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## Wingstress (Oct 10, 2008)

When I wrote this review, it was late at night and I had had a few beers, (which explains the bad language). Seeing that this was my first review that I have ever written, I had no idea that there would be such a heated discussion. So after reading everyone's points, I'd like to focus on my true intent of this review. FORGET the safety feature. I would pay 2 grand for this table even with out it. If you stand this up next to a Powermatic cabinet saw, which you would be paying 2 grand for anyway, it would match performance, accuracy, and workmanship regardless of the piece of mind that you aren't going to cut your fingers off.

Some other points I didn't mention. The dust collection shroud that engulfs the whole system is nicely curved directly into a 4-inch port. Look at the blade guard, even that is curved to promote dust flow down into the shroud.

Assembly/instructions. I can't state this enough. When you open the package, there are these big 24"X24" color coded cardboard hardware holders. The are labeled step 1, 2, 3, etc… The manual is in full color with laminated pages. I would compare the pages' quality to the old encyclopedias or nice college text books. I don't know about everyone else, but I have never purchased a tool with a full color manual.

It even has every leg, bracket, and piece with a little letter sticker indicating which piece is which. I know that's not a big deal, but this is why I like it. They pealed off with you finger nail! Usually a sticker never comes off or it leaves a residue. (Like when you buy a new mirror or window and have to take a razor blade to it to get the name off)

Even the assembly tools were outstanding. They didn't give you a dinky little Allen wrench, but two hex-head screwdrivers each a good 8-inches long. They are so nice, I actually hung them on my peg board to use as a normal tool. Also, the clutch adjust hex wrench has a magnetic clip so you can slap it anywhere on the saw for safe keeping. The magnetic clip doubles as a .070 shim to adjust the clutch-to-blade distance.

Also the fence slides effortlessly along the entire rail maintaining squareness.

It is also whisper quite (as far as tools go). I couldn't believe it but I could actually hear the Red Sox on the radio while the saw was on. That doesn't happen with any of my other saws (except for my scroll saw) Of course I don't know if that's a good thing. If the Yankees hit a walk-off homer, I might just put my hand through the blade out of frustration. Which brings me back the ongoing discussion - Thank God for the safety feature and Yuck the Fankees.


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

Yes I agree…take away the safety features and both this saw and the cabinet saw are solid, well built quality machines. I have given them the once over many times at Woodcraft…Maybe if I bring a 12 pack over you can let me test drive yours Tom..you drink and I will cut!


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## Wingstress (Oct 10, 2008)

Sounds like a plan!


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## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

Brad-nailor

I'll quote you again: I think its a great idea, and I'm sure the long list of people that still have fingers because of it will agree! If that is not scare tactics then it is certainly a clear implication that lots of people would have lost fingers if they didn't own a SawStop. I think it is a good idea too although I question some of the design decisions. But where is that long list of people who had their fingers saved? How long could it be? I did do 5 minutes of research on the web and that is where this survey came from. Did you even bother to read it?

I guess the real question here is: what price safety? In the aforementioned survey by newwoodworker.com, they specifically asked for shop accident experience. Out of 262 submissions, almost 2/3 concerned the table saw - no surprise there. Out of 167 table saw reports 113 (68%) involved contact with the blade. There were only 2, *two*, cases of these that resulted in amputation! So much for your looong list! Now, if every one of those reported cases owned a SawStop (the cheap contractor's model, not the more expensive cabinet saw) the net outlay would have been $2000 X 167 = $334,000. In two cases, it would have saved digits, so that's $167,000 per case of missing digits. Everybody here says $2000 is cheap compared to an ER visit, but the real number, for society as a whole, is more like $200,000 compared to an ER visit. Now, I am not saying there was no value in the other cases and heavens, no!, I don't want any cuts at all from my table saw, but this whole issue of SawStop being cheap and saving fingers is overblown. A little perspective here, gentlemen!

Yeah, its a fine saw. That's why I liked this review; it dwelt more on the saw as a saw. But if any other contractor saw was reviewed here with a >$2k price tag, there would be nothing but comments about how you could get a better cabinet saw for that price. $2200 buys a complete 12" cabinet saw setup with 5 HP motor, extension tables and 70" Biese style fence according to my latest Grizzly catalog. What you are paying on the SawStop is for the safety features and the price is quite high right now as it usually is for new technologies when first introduced.

…it's attitudes like yours and Woodchucks that the big table saw manufacturers took, to try and prevent this technology from ever coming to fruition. [heavy sigh] yet another conspiracy nut! No, they just don't want to price themselves out of the market! Don't you find it intriquing that so many who espouse the SawStop don't own one?

a1jim - I recommend it to each and every student that ask me what table saw to buy even though I don't own one

brad-nailor - (in response to whther he owns a SawStop) I wish…I am going to have to settle with a dangerous model. I love saw stops.

I suspect the biggest reason is the cost.

woodwrangler - There is always someone fighting technology, or arguing just to argue … my grandmother says "stirring the pot". Don't give them the time of day … just take it for what it's worth. All feedback is … well, feedback. You can buy into it-or not, and most of us read it as it is-which ain't much.

Ah, c'mon, man! What a copout! Is it just that easy to dismiss any view that disagrees with your own?


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## skeeter (Apr 2, 2009)

does it only have one leg on the extension table? that seems cheapy.


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## Wingstress (Oct 10, 2008)

Skeeter, 
It actually doesn't need a let at all, The table is suspended between the steel rails that extend from the table. I guess it would deflect if you sat on it so they put one steel leg in the center. Its very solid. However, I have the 36-inch extension, the 52-inch extension comes with two legs…


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

EEngineer..do you know how to read? Or maybe you were to busy doing convoluted math problems that mean absolutely nothing. I'll say it again..but I will type real slow so you can understand..my statement was not a scare tactic, I was stating a fact about the hundreds of people that have had a blade contact injury that didn't end up in a finger mutilation or amputation due to the saw stop. You can call me a conspiracy nut all you want, but when the inventor of the saw stop brake brought his invention to the major table saw manufacturers they all said they weren't interested because if they put a device like that on a their table saws it is akin to admitting that the table saw is dangerous…DUH! Thats about as intelligent as putting the death warning on the side of a pack of cigarettes..

I'm not getting sucked into another "Woodchuck" spiral…...( Did he hire you to take over fighting his battles?)


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## Beginningwoodworker (May 5, 2008)

Nice Contractors Saw.


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## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

Bard-nailor

the inventor of the saw stop brake brought his invention to the major table saw manufacturers they all said they weren't interested because if they put a device like that on a their table saws it is akin to admitting that the table saw is dangerous Oh? This is information I don't have. Please show me, cite a source.

I was stating a fact about the hundreds of people that have had a blade contact injury that didn't end up in a finger mutilation or amputation due to the saw stop. If this is fact, then please show me your source. I am willing to learn, just show me where your fact comes from.

I'm not getting sucked into another "Woodchuck" spiral……( Did he hire you to take over fighting his battles?) No one hired me. These are my opinions and mine alone. If woodchuck and I agree then it is a result of both of us arriving at the same conclusion through separate thought processes. What makes you see a conspiracy in this?

EEngineer..do you know how to read? Or maybe you were to busy doing convoluted math problems that mean absolutely nothing. I'll say it again..but I will type real slow so you can understand.. Ahh, yes, a well-reasoned, logical rebuttal to my statements. Do I know how to read? Do you know how to write? That little segment included grammatical errors.

Look, let's save this for a separate forum topic. I will open a topic in the next few days to clarify this. It really does not belong in Wingstress's review and I apologize to Wingstress for dragging this out here.


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## WoodWrangler (Jan 9, 2008)

_woodwrangler - There is always someone fighting technology, or arguing just to argue … my grandmother says "stirring the pot". Don't give them the time of day … just take it for what it's worth. All feedback is … well, feedback. You can buy into it-or not, and most of us read it as it is-which ain't much.

EEngineer - Ah, c'mon, man! What a copout! Is it just that easy to dismiss any view that disagrees with your own?_

And to it you prove my point, double E. This isn't about disagreeing with each other, it's about YOU isn't it?

And your quotes from newwoodworker.com are just silly. That site is not scientific and is geared at … well … NEW woodworkers, many of whom probably have a table saw and probably cut themself installing the blade. Not to mention, those without all their digits probably can't get to the survey to fill it out without missing a letter here or there. (Okay, that was a bad joke).

So Double E … lighten up … and congratulate this man on his review and purchase and stop trying to convince the world that YOU're right! We're sure you are.


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## 747DRVR (Mar 18, 2009)

The last report I saw was around a year ago and Sawstop was claiming about 450 confirmed saves(dont have the exact number).I am waiting for the Hybrid and I will probably pull the trigger.


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## Padre (Nov 5, 2008)

Wingtress, I am so happy you like the saw. I love mine as well, and after many, many board feet cut, it does not lose that wonderful edge and quality.


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## HokieMojo (Mar 11, 2008)

Wingstress - I just wanted to check in to see how you feel after an extended period of use. Do you still love this saw as much as when you got it? Any new revelations? Anything you would change about it?


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## Wingstress (Oct 10, 2008)

HokiMojo,
Yes I still love the saw. It cuts as true as the day I bought it (about 1 year ago). I did come across one thing that was disappointing. When you do a bevel cut and raise the blade quite high, the motor comes up and hits my outfeed table. This doesn't happen if your cutting a bevel through 4/4 or 6/4 stock, but if you really raise the blade say 2.5 inches or so, you have to remove the outfeed table. It hasn't prevented any cuts yet, but if I had a really wide, thick, stock, you could theoretically run into the motor because it sticks above the table top. When I ran into the issue, I was pretty ticked, but it has never prevented me from making the cut I wanted. I just thought it was a poor design choice.

Also, this weekend I was ripping a huge piece of maple. I had milled the maple myself with a 40" chainsaw, so this piece of wood was about 36" wide X 7 feet long X 1.5" thick. In otherwords huge! (Like the size of a dining room table). When ripping it, I went through a crotch and knot and the board pinched and warped a little, grabbed the blade, and the overload switch turned it off. (Not the safety clutch - just the power overload switch). Anyway, I needed to use a screwdriver to spread the board to get it off the blade. That was the first time I'd ever jammed it. I wished at that moment that I had the 3HP or 5HP version. But, it was so freaking heavy, I would have had to hire riggers to get it into my basement and convert my electrical to 220V.

Sorry for the long winded answer. Short answer - Yes it is still the best tool I've ever bought and I still show it off to anyone who visits my house.  If you want to see a picture of the maple tree see my forum and scroll way down. http://lumberjocks.com/topics/10220


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## HokieMojo (Mar 11, 2008)

Thanks. I'm stuck between the contractors and the professional. I'm sure they'd both do a stellar job. That makes spending the extra on the pro even tougher because I'm trying really hard to save money. It's good to know that it sounds like I'll have a tough time making a bad choice if I stick with either sawstop.


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## ZeroThreeQuarter (Jan 11, 2010)

hokiemojo - they're about to offer a 1.75hp, 120v, cabinet saw. That might be the saw that bridges the gap.

Personally, I'd LOVE to buy that, but i think i'm still going to have to settle for the contractor one. I figure I could use the contractor one for a year, then sell that and upgrade. One thing I know for sure is that they maintain their value.

I'd rather pay a few thousand now for a saw and know my fingers are a whole lot safer, especially since I'm a draftsmen… can't imagine trying to draw without fingers.


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## HokieMojo (Mar 11, 2008)

thanks for the info zero. I'm still debating and working through it. I'm getting closer and closer each day though. It's more $ than my car and my wife's car, so its a huge investment, but i do see some real value there.


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## Wingstress (Oct 10, 2008)

Go for it! I'd take the 1.75hp 120v, cabinet saw if they had it when I bought my contractor's saw. Trust me, you won't be disappointed.


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## Keith538 (Oct 11, 2010)

There is a Sawstop saw in my future, however it will be delayed for a few months until I heal from my last battle with my Craftsman table saw. Besides having technology that should be part of every saw of this class, it is an excellent saw. I very much would like to keep the remaining 9 fingers I have in the same shape they are in.


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