# New Shop



## woodman88 (Feb 24, 2011)

So I am in the planning stage of my new shop hopefully starting spring to early summer.I am limited to 32×40 because of zoning.I am planning a 32×40 pole building with 10ft ceillings. I pretty much have my drawing for shop tool layout. My biggest question right now is heat. I am limited to either electric or propane.Not quite sure which would be best. So thats where I was hoping to get alittle help and ideas from my Lumberjocks.
I am planning on insulating the crap out it and drywall sidewalls with gloss white metal ceilling.
I have been told Natural Gas is in the works for the next 3- 5years but who knows.
So all your help and comments would help Oh yes I do Live in Ohio so we do have cold weather


----------



## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Hi Woodman88. We also are building. We just broke ground last week on a 40×80 shop. We might take 9 months to build as we will build as we have funds. We are at this time bringing in base and prepping the foundation.

I am in TX so ensuring a good flow of air circulates in the shop during the summertime. But our winter is very mild so I do not plan for heat.

My thoughts on the heat would be how it affects my ability to spray lacquer and any safety implications that exist. Otherwise not sure I have a good answer. I would avoid having an open flame source since we spray a fair amount.


----------



## woodman88 (Feb 24, 2011)

Jerry Thanks for your input.I currently have a 24×24 not at my home which I have a small 10×12 finish room which is pretty well vented. heat the shop with a hanging natural gas REZNOR but the finish room is electric baseboard. also spray alot of lacquer


----------



## mrtoasty (Jan 13, 2011)

Woodman 88

My shop is heated with hot water radiant heat in the floor. It is great heat. My shop is 30×36 with 10' 6" ceilings. I insulated under the floor and around the edge with 2" blue board as I call it. The walls are 6". I bought a under sink continuous hot water heater from Menard's for 168 bucks. It has two heaters of 4500 watt each. I only require one to heat the whole shop.

If you have exposure to the sun you could add solar to off set the heating cost.

Les


----------



## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Woodman, I asked this same question last week and got a good many interesting responses so you might want to check out that thread also. I'm sure that there a several good threads. When I get caught up I'll be searching for other threads about this because how you heat is important. Good luck on your shop.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


----------



## Bobsboxes (Feb 8, 2011)

We have the same problem here in Montana, it is 2 degrees this morning. I bought a Dayton heater, which can be switched from natural gas to propane, I spray all my projects outside, I just plan on doing them around the weather, it works for me, I also have been following these heating threads to see if there is a better, and cheaper way. The in floor head tubes would be great but, to tear out and redo floor is not realilistic for my budget.


----------



## Woodbum (Jan 3, 2010)

Look at Amana PTAC heat pumps. They are like the through the wall hotel heat/cool units but use heat pump technology. I am planning on 2 of these for my 24×40 shop. This is just one option in the many available. AC is more important to me than heat here in OK, with summers of 50+days of 100 degree temps; but 60-65 degrees is good for cold weather for me. Look at these units for another option. They come in many sizes and are pretty economical to buy and use.


----------



## woodman88 (Feb 24, 2011)

helluvawrenck I didn.t see that thread I will have to check it out Thanks I have been reading and talking to people but still not sure what I want to do.Ac isn't that important to me as heat.


----------



## woodman88 (Feb 24, 2011)

bugz I am thinking when You said Dayton heater you are talking about the hanging type Like REZNOR? That is how I heat my current shop with nat gas. I am thinking there has to be a more efficient way. I do Spray alot of Lacqer and am planning a separate finish room


----------



## woodman88 (Feb 24, 2011)

thanks woodbum I will have to check that out. I currently heat my house with heat pump and it really is that bad price wise


----------



## GregInMaryland (Mar 11, 2010)

Here is an link to an Excel spreadsheet with fuel and operating costs from the US Energy Information Agency from this webpage: http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=8&t=5

The spreadsheet contains info on various fuel sources and heating methods and is quite interesting. However, the cost of installation and equipment does not appear to be included, which could really skew the results.

Greg


----------



## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

I'll chime in…West central Wisconsin and all the elements that come with it (-30F in the winter, +90 in the summer). I built a 56×30 shop, 10' ceilings. I heated 40×30 of that space with radiant infloor and finished with bright white steel ceilings and walls.

It ain't cheap but there is something in the brain that says if your feet and legs are warm, you are good (e.g. if I keep it at 55F I'm comfortable…higher if I'm doing paint/stain but that's a function of the material cure time). The tubing (5/8' because it allows for longer runs) was expensive at the time (cheaper now I think) and a pain to install. And 2" closed cell foam under it all.

The heat source is a 65 gal LP power vented hot water heater that could be converted to a "closed loop" system. Had to charge the system with glycol mix since it is remote and you don't want a closed loop system to freeze.

Downside? unless you know exactly what your shop is going to look like forever, you can't open the slab for wiring or anything. Once the slab is poured, you are essentially done.

Holler back if you want more info.


----------



## woodman88 (Feb 24, 2011)

Thanks teejk that is what I am kinda leaning too but the cost I am not sure of. I am thinking either in floor or propane radiant tube heat . just trying to take in alot of what others are telling me


----------



## mrtoasty (Jan 13, 2011)

Check out the pex cost in your area, I put 1000' in the crete when I poured it. Maybe 250 bucks, if you want it later it is there. Check out this link. http://www.radiantec.com/index.php

I will try and post pictures tomorrow.

Les


----------



## woodman88 (Feb 24, 2011)

Thanks Les what are you using for heatsource?


----------



## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

Woodman…Ohio is usually not as harsh a climate…as I said, in-floor can be expensive to install and operate but that's a fact of life in our frozen Tundra. You might be happy with a ceiling mounted Hot-Dog.

Now at the risk of starting another fight with the DC zealots but the forced air heat also is very good at getting rid of airborne sawdust…smells just like a campfire but it is gone!


----------



## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

Les…Pex prices have dropped a lot since I built my shop…we ran 5/8ths because the loops could be longer than 1/2. We ran (and I mean WE) 1/2 in the new house. At the time I think the 5/8ths was 75c/foot, 1/2 60c/foot.

Should have waited!

I love the comfort with radiant but as noted above, in a shop slab once the slab goes down, you are done.


----------



## AandCstyle (Mar 21, 2012)

I have in floor radiant heat and think it is the best. If you ever feel the need to drill into your floor, turn the heat up and feel the floor. You will be able to tell close enough where a line isn't. 

Regarding the metal ceiling, I advise against it. The noise from the machines will really reverberate off the ceiling bounce off the concrete floor and make you you feel like you are in an echo chamber. FWIW


----------



## mrtoasty (Jan 13, 2011)

Here are picturesof the heat unit and the whole heat system. I can post more if you need them.


----------



## woodman88 (Feb 24, 2011)

AandCstyle thanks for the info what are you using for heat source? I was wondering about the ceiling I was thinking of light reflecting better but didn.t think about the noise


----------



## bullhead1 (Mar 29, 2012)

I thought I would tell you what I did on my pole building. The part I insulated is 24 by 36 with the posts on 8ft centers. Instead of framing between the posts I found some insulation that was made to fit between the posts (roughly 8 ft wide). I can't remember how long the role was but they looked like small round bails of hay. I cut to length to the ceiling height and wedged them between the posts. I put a vapor barrier of plastic over it and ran 2X6's cross wise on the posts 2ft on center up to ceiling. I sheeted the walls with OSB and for the ceiling I used tongue and groove floor sheeting. I had my trusses on 4 ft centers so I didn"t have to do anything else to the ceiling other than hang the tongue and groove sheeting. Painted every thing white. I can't remember exactly how much cheaper it was but it was significant. My electrical is all outside the wall in conduit pipe which allows me to reconfigure and add outlets easily which I have done several times. I have three 8ft electric radiant heaters mounted on the wall up toward the ceiling and two ceiling fans on low to push the heat down. I keep my shop at about 60 degrees in the winter and my electric bill went up less than a 100 dollars a month in the dead of winter. With radiant heat the more things in the shop the better as once you warm up those items they retain the heat. I live in South Dakota and I know what cold is! I don't know If your building codes would allow this but I live in the country and have more flexibilty then those that live in town.


----------



## woodman88 (Feb 24, 2011)

Les thanks so much That is the heat source I was looking at just had talked to anyone that had used it


----------



## mrtoasty (Jan 13, 2011)

Woodman,

Sorry about getting the picture so big, I assume you were able to view the whole thing? The little heater works great. I need to buy a spare while they still are around and just put it on the shelf for future if ever needed.

Les


----------



## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

woodman…This guy is probably the same status for radiant heat as Bill Pentz is for dust control.

http://www.radiantdesigninstitute.com/

Like Bill he is selling stuff but he does explain a lot of stuff and for the most part it makes sense. He would probably insist on a storage tank in lieu of the "on-demand" but that might be a function of climate. My shop uses the 65gal tank, the house uses a very expensive Weil McClain "on-demand" boiler.

I'm looking for pictures of the shop build.


----------



## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

Kind of explains why drilling after pour is pretty hard. Tubing runs 12" apart.


----------



## mrtoasty (Jan 13, 2011)

Thats the way I did it as well but I was at 14" apart. I don't use any storage at all, just the little heater in the pictures. I am looking at adding solar this year to get rid of all the cost. If I go with solar I will have to add storage of some kind. It is really great heat.

Les


----------



## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

Les…you are Indiana…I'm west central Wisconsin. A life-long friend of mine did the HVAC in both the shop and the house (built at the same time). For whatever reason he decided on the "tankless" for the house…it's state of the art but struggles when it gets to -30F. Maybe in less harsh climates it would be perfect but I'm thinking of adding a storage tank. Photo is the house of course. Shop is a 3 loop manifold running off a single thermostat/control.


----------



## AandCstyle (Mar 21, 2012)

I have a propane fired boiler for the 2600 square foot house and 1200 square foot shop. It also heats our water. We use about 8-900 gallons of propane a year. However, we in the mountains outside Albuquerque.

At one time, we kenneled our dog in building with steel walls and ceiling and a concrete floor. It was unbearable.


----------



## MedicKen (Dec 2, 2008)

You say that Natural Gas is on the works and 3-5 yrs out. I would lean towards the propane with the thought that it can be easily converted to CNG at a mimimal cost. If you were to go electric it would take a lot to heat that kind of space and my feeling cost prohibitive. Now, I say that and live in Cali where we do not have the winters you do. You might also talk with a few of the local HVAC suppliers and get their input as well.


----------



## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

maybe my hearing is getting bad (my wife says it is) but my 40×30 steel clad shop is not a problem with echo. I do have R19 fiberglass on the side walls and R50 above and maybe that helps.


----------



## woodman88 (Feb 24, 2011)

thank you all I had in floor in mind but I guess I needed to hear it from everyone else. I am hoping on breaking ground around June or so. I will post pics THANKS AGAIN


----------

