# Any feedback on Mohawk penetrating stains?



## harum (Nov 25, 2013)

Was wondering if anyone could share experience using Mohawk stains and how they compare to much advertised aniline dyes.

They are called penetrating stains and the color selection is really unsurpassed. Is this something intermediate between dyes and stains? Thanks and Happy Easter, h.


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## JayCee123 (Apr 22, 2016)

I haven't used the Mohawk stain your referencing. I have used penetrating dyes stains from another manufacturer. These are relatively new to the scene. Real simply stains were divided into two groups …Pigmented Stains and Dyes. Pigmented stains are generally larger particles suspended in a carrier such as oil or water, etc. The particles are suspended in the carrier but can settle out with time. Thats why their always telling you to shake or mix the product. On the other hand, dyes are extremely small particles that are mixed into their carrier, whether it is water, alcohol, lacquer, etc and become dissolved in the carrier. The larger particles of the Pigmented stains lays on the surfaces of the material and within the grooves left by sanding. Its as if it were a diluted paint. Over time it can wear off the surfaces. The dyes actually enters into the surfaces of the stock at the microscopic level and becomes part of the stock. This Mohawk product seems to have some of each of the characteristic of the pigmented stains and dyes. They have added a binder to the finely ground pigment. So that you have the absorption taking place and also the pigment that lays on the surfaces is "glued" to the stock with the binder.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

use them all the time, just treat hem as an alcohol based stain, just be aware they dry super fast , so you have to haul butt… use a stain pad which holds more fluid, on wet , wipe off as fast as possible.. Paper towels work well, just have plenty ready to go and try to break down into smaller sections meaning do one side, then the another, dont try to do a whole project, also note as it dries it will look much lighter, when its wet is what it will look like when you top coat it …

the above is true with any dye, but alcohol dries faster than water .. spraying a wet coat and immediately wiping back is the best way to handle a dye, especially on large areas..

key to applying dyes is saturation and wipe back, get a 2 " foam brush and start brushing and you will have a patch work, ..get it on get it off ..


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

Charles, you may say this same thing in your finishing book (I haven't gone back to check), but thank you for this advice. The more times I read it, the more it sinks in.



> use them all the time, just treat hem as an alcohol based stain, just be aware they dry super fast , so you have to haul butt… use a stain pad which holds more fluid, on wet , wipe off as fast as possible.. Paper towels work well, just have plenty ready to go and try to break down into smaller sections meaning do one side, then the another, dont try to do a whole project, also note as it dries it will look much lighter, when its wet is what it will look like when you top coat it …
> 
> the above is true with any dye, but alcohol dries faster than water .. spraying a wet coat and immediately wiping back is the best way to handle a dye, especially on large areas..
> 
> ...


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

> key to applying dyes is saturation and wipe back, get a 2 " foam brush and start brushing and you will have a patch work, ..get it on get it off ..
> 
> - CharlesNeil


That's why I prefer to use Target Coating's WR4000 stain base. Provides more open time than plain water, and the oil emulsion provides some chatoyance. If using an alcohol or water based dye/stain and a water based top coat, it either needs some type of binder in it or a coat of shellac or something to keep the finish from lifting the dye/stain.



> I haven t used the Mohawk stain your referencing. I have used penetrating dyes stains from another manufacturer. These are relatively new to the scene. Real simply stains were divided into two groups …Pigmented Stains and Dyes. Pigmented stains are generally larger particles suspended in a carrier such as oil or water, etc. The particles are suspended in the carrier but can settle out with time. Thats why their always telling you to shake or mix the product. On the other hand, dyes are extremely small particles that are mixed into their carrier, whether it is water, alcohol, lacquer, etc and become dissolved in the carrier. The larger particles of the Pigmented stains lays on the surfaces of the material and within the grooves left by sanding. Its as if it were a diluted paint. Over time it can wear off the surfaces. The dyes actually enters into the surfaces of the stock at the microscopic level and becomes part of the stock. This Mohawk product seems to have some of each of the characteristic of the pigmented stains and dyes. They have added a binder to the finely ground pigment. So that you have the absorption taking place and also the pigment that lays on the surfaces is "glued" to the stock with the binder.
> 
> - JayCee123


Minwax stains and others have been made that way for 30 yrs or more (both dye and pigment).


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## harum (Nov 25, 2013)

Thank you JayCee123, yes, I'm aware of the differences between stains and dyes, just never used this brand and was impressed by how natural the samples looked.



> use them all the time, just treat hem as an alcohol based stain, just be aware they dry super fast , so you have to haul butt… use a stain pad which holds more fluid, on wet , wipe off as fast as possible..
> 
> - CharlesNeil


Charles thank you for the useful info! The white plastic bottles of Mohawk and the labels looked exactly like Behlen Solar Lux stains packaging. The Behlen gave me really good staining of white oak: natural looking color bringing out the texture in one application. This is why I was curious about these stains.


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## harum (Nov 25, 2013)

> That s why I prefer to use Target Coating s WR4000 stain base. Provides more open time than plain water, and the oil emulsion provides some chatoyance. If using an alcohol or water based dye/stain and a water based top coat, it either needs some type of binder in it or a coat of shellac or something to keep the finish from lifting the dye/stain.
> 
> - OSU55


Would this TC WR4000 be okay for exterior application, like for an exterior door? Does it, or any other seal coat, interfere with soaking in of thinned varnish?


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

behlen is Mohawk … it's their retail brand,


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## ClammyBallz (Apr 16, 2015)

> Would this TC WR4000 be okay for exterior application, like for an exterior door? Does it, or any other seal coat, interfere with soaking in of thinned varnish?


It's water based, so you can use any water based or oil based seal coat over it. I just used it on some cherry mixed with transtint dye and it make the grain pop a lot more compared to dye and a seal coat of shellac.

They advise for use in indirect sunlight for exterior use, but I'm sure that fading really depends on seal coat you use.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

> Would this TC WR4000 be okay for exterior application, like for an exterior door? Does it, or any other seal coat, interfere with soaking in of thinned varnish?
> 
> - harum


I would not use it for exterior if the surface will get any sun. Any direct sun/uv application needs a pigment to protect the surface.

Anything with a solids content will reduce absorption of anything else. Wood will only hold so much. WR4000 is an oil emulsion, and the oil does dry. It will work fine with a thinned ob varnish.


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## harum (Nov 25, 2013)

> behlen is Mohawk … it s their retail brand,
> 
> - CharlesNeil


This explains it.

If finishing exterior door, what would be a good seal coat between the stain and top coat of marine varnish? I'm sure shellac wouldn't work because marine varnishes are designed to let moisture through.


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