# Looking for input on Table saw choice, Laguna Fusion F2 vs Grizzly G0771Z



## Chadecoen (Mar 22, 2020)

New logging in but long time lurker. I tend to over analyze everything and can't thank you kind folks enough for taking the time to post all the invaluable info I can absorb and have read to date. That said, I haven't seen a lot of new F2 reviews. At the top of my budget I am considering the Grizzly G0771Z with the mobile stand or the Fusion F2.

The sale on each right now puts them very close in price. Although it looks like the Laguna is out of stock most every where so I'll have to wait a bit for it to arrive if chosen.

If I read correctly the current F2 was redesigned recently. Does anyone know if it addresses the dust collection or fence issue I have read about on the prior model? Seems like there was some pretty poor feedback on early F2s. I think the Grizzly has been around for long enough now and I have read some quality feedback on it.

I'm in a small shop with 110 power and vehicle parking when not woodworking. I appreciate any thoughts, advice, or reviews you might can provide!

Chad


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## Nate2601 (Jun 22, 2017)

I am in the same boat, Looking to upgrade to a cabinet saw. Keep going back and forth from grizzly to Laguna. I am looking at the 3 horse models. Was ready to pull the trigger on the F3 till all the uncertainty with the economy. Tough to drop that much cash when your wife might get laid off. Good luck.


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## Chadecoen (Mar 22, 2020)

> I am in the same boat, Looking to upgrade to a cabinet saw. Keep going back and forth from grizzly to Laguna. I am looking at the 3 horse models. Was ready to pull the trigger on the F3 till all the uncertainty with the economy. Tough to drop that much cash when your wife might get laid off. Good luck.
> 
> - Nate2601


Thanks! I wish I could go in for a 220v set up. Would play hell wiring the garage the way it is set up. Glad she is still working for now at least! Stay safe.


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## WoodenDreams (Aug 23, 2018)

I've been using the G0771Z now for about three years, and satisfied with it.


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## Chadecoen (Mar 22, 2020)

> I ve been using the G0771Z now for about three years, and satisfied with it.
> 
> - WoodenDreams


Good deal, thanks! That's what I read in a lot of the reviews on that Grizzly - good machine with years of tested use.

Just wish there were more real world reviews on the newer F2 - I do like the Fusion dust collection but if it is crap then likely not worth having. I like that the grizzly saw has T-Track on the fence where the Laguna does not. Casters - Fusion has them but have to buy them for the grizzly (partially what brings the prices closer) But if I were to build an awesome saw/router/dust cart like @BburgBoy did then casters aren't needed and in fact might actually make the fusion with its built in wheels a little taller on the cart.

Still stumped.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Download all the owners manuals and parts diagrams. You will find differences. The Laguna, and it's clones sold by several others, have a very lightweight aluminum trunnion. Some hybrids are cabinet mounted, some table mounted. Look at weight. The heavier, the less vibration. Look at accessories. Wheels were mentioned, but even different thickness riving knives can be optional. If the fence is not to your liking, a good fence covers the difference between a hybrid and smaller cabinet. A Harvey C300 is about the same price as the F2. A powermatic 64 may be a stronger saw than some of the hybrids. A PM1000 is an absolute tank of a saw but still 1 3/4 HP.

Some have stamped steel racks, some light castings, some nice heavy iron. From what I understand, a saw has two features: the trunnion and the fence.

I am looking at bigger ones, 3 HP. Down to Harvey, Powermatic, or if I can justify the extra grand, a Sawstop. I figure I can only get one more saw and the hybrid size are just not really any more saw than my Ridgid contractor saw. If stuck with 120V, there are some big heavier cabinet saws with the 1 3/4 motors and some of the contractor saws are actually tanks for not much more


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

I will only add the need for top notch customer svc. Grizz wins hands down in my estimation.


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## Chadecoen (Mar 22, 2020)

> Download all the owners manuals and parts diagrams.
> - tvrgeek


Wowzer, great idea! Thank you! I did just that and on paper they are way more similar than I would have thought. It looks like main differences I might care about are:

Grizzly has cast trunnions and Laguna has alum
Grizzly is 2 HP, Laguna 1.75 HP
Grizzly rail is 64", Laguna is 66 9/16
Arbor speed - Laguna is about 1k faster (why does this matter to me?) 3450 vs 4500

Fences are mostly alum on both although Grizzly is slightly longer, max cuts are similar, weight is within 10 pounds, size very similar, powder coated boxes, ect.

My eyes are starting to go cross looking at all of the fine print but I think I got it all - am I missing anything?

I read more good things about Grizzly cust service than Laguna. Wish Grizzly had free freight like some shops selling the Laguna but it is looking like when comparing these two, the Grizzly is the better saw for me…..


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## Chadecoen (Mar 22, 2020)

> A Harvey C300 is about the same price as the F2.
> 
> - tvrgeek


OK, now you did it, I take back everything nice I was thinking about you (jokes!) You just had to throw another saw in the mix didn't you! haha.

I did spy the C200-30 10" Table Saw - lots of nice features and weight to that one and at a nice price. Not my fave fence type face but I am going to read up on the specs some more - good call, thanks for bringing up a name I knew nothing of, looks promising!

Chad


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

The G0771 is more of a contractor's saw with a skirt than a true cabinet saw. I looked at it long and hard and bought the Grizzly G0883P instead. The G0883P is also a hybrid saw and not a "true" cabinet saw but it's a step up from the G0771.

I also upgraded it with an Incra TS-LS fence and M1000 miter gauge as well as a 3-1/2 hp Milwaukee router table to replace the right wing.

Accurate, smooth cutting using a Freud LU83 blade and a ZCI. 








Yes, there is a saw under all that crap!

My only complaint is the non-existent dust collection. That 4" dust port splits into a 1-1/4" line to the blade guard and a 2-1/2" line going to the under deck blade shroud. Since the hose splits internally there isn't as much draw as you would expect even after capping the small line.

The 2-1/2" line quickly clogged even with an 1100CFM DC hooked directly with a 6' run. The clog was so bad I couldn't clear it and finally just disconnected the 2-1/2" line and let the dust fall to the open bottom. Eventually when the dust reaches the access door I'll have to clean it out.

Other than the dust collection I love the saw.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Yea, but the Grizzly 833 is OBE. 
1023, comments about lift binding issues
690, A bit light and not as accurate as the big boys
651 THeir heavier one. Same trunnion as Oliver 5vHP. 
were the ones I was looking at.

The Harvey Alpha 110 looks like the same trunnion as the PM 2000. Out of stock. I'll ask when available.

Got my notes together to call Delta, Laguna and Harvey today. Ask about factual delivery, availability in today's rules, and why they don't respond to e-mails. I mam not really sure it is permissible to deliver these things this month. I wil ask them if they will extend their sales until people can actually take advantage of them.


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## Chadecoen (Mar 22, 2020)

> Yea, but the Grizzly 833 is OBE.
> 
> The Harvey Alpha 110 looks like the same trunnion as the PM 2000. Out of stock. I ll ask when available.
> 
> - tvrgeek


Please forgive my ignorance, but what is "OBE"?

I read that having the same trunnion as a powermatic as a good thing, right?

Harvey is showing free shipping to businesses but if you click on the residential delivery the price goes way up - I am a business in a residential area so not sure if I qualify for the free shipping.

I don't mind buying on sale even if I have to wait a minute to receive it.

The Harvey is looking like the better saw for the money for me over the Laguna and appears to have a similar build but is heavier than the Grizzly G0771z.

Now leaning towards the Harvey. Similar situation applies here too though, not a lot of user feedback reviews on the new Laguna or Harvey.

Thanks everyone!!

Chad

**Edit: And not that it is relevant in any way, shape, or form, I kinda like that pretty blue cabinet on the Harvey too, haha


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## Chadecoen (Mar 22, 2020)

Re: Harvey C200-30 table saw - so I just spoke to a marketing rep at Harvey who is willing to throw in free residential lift gate delivery and they are in stock.

He seemed very excited that after years of making other brand's equipment that they are branding their own. As far as I can tell, the C200-30 seems to be the best bang for the buck for me.

It is heavier than the grizzly, has over the blade dust collection and a nice looking chute around and under the blade to direct the dust inside the cabinet. The trunnions appear stout. Am I missing anything obvious?

Anyone have any reason(s) I shouldn't order this saw?

Thanks,
Chad


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

OBE. Obsolete.

Yes, the PM2000 is considered the biggest and baddest out there. The "smaller" 
Harvey still looks quite massive, just a different design.

Only negative I see is the view from the members who consider not buying a Sawstop for over twice the price makes us less than the sharpest chisel in the toolbox.

Finished my wiring. Dust collector re-plumbing starts tomorrow. My biggest decision is if I buy both the BS and TS.


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

All Grizzly table saws are on sale 10% off until April 10.
I have been waiting for this to finally buy the G0771Z.
But sadly due to the COVID I cannot buy any lumber right now.
My wife said don't worry about saving $90 right now, get it later.


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## Woodmaster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

I have a Delta Unisaw 5hp it is an awesome Tablesaw. I also use a Sawstop at my woodworking club shop it also is a good saw. I love the controls on the Unisaw because they both are on the front.


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## clagwell (Dec 20, 2018)

Does anyone have any experience with Harvey's customer service?


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Local store did say "only decent tool they still make" but their service is blocking me. Not only their history of not supporting owners, but they don't even respond to pre-sales questions. Maybe Chang never sold retail before and they don't understand how to do business. Their lack of business acumen has lost them two sales. Drill press and table saw. If their service was only lousy, I woudl be jumping on a Unisaw.

Why 5 HP on a 10 inch? I have had no issues ripping full depth oak on my 1 3/4. Only problems were when using a combo blade in framing lumber. Correct blades, no problem. Only looking 3 HP to get a "tank". 5 HP for a 12 inch makes sense. An I missing something?

Messed up the last bit of lumber for my current project, so now on hold. 
Harvey service cant be worse than Delta. I do not know what their service or parts distro is. Oliver coordinates for most of the other companies



> I have a Delta Unisaw 5hp it is an awesome Table Saw. I also use a Sawstop at my woodworking club shop it also is a good saw. I love the controls on the Unisaw because they both are on the front.
> 
> - Woodmaster1


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## Chadecoen (Mar 22, 2020)

> I will only add the need for top notch customer svc. Grizz wins hands down in my estimation.
> 
> - Bill White


Thanks Bill, that's what I keep seeing in a lot of the feedback. I appreciate your input.



> The G0771 is more of a contractor s saw with a skirt than a true cabinet saw. I looked at it long and hard and bought the Grizzly G0883P instead. The G0883P is also a hybrid saw and not a "true" cabinet saw but it s a step up from the G0771.
> 
> I also upgraded it with an Incra TS-LS fence and M1000 miter gauge as well as a 3-1/2 hp Milwaukee router table to replace the right wing.
> 
> ...





> I have a Delta Unisaw 5hp it is an awesome Tablesaw. I also use a Sawstop at my woodworking club shop it also is a good saw. I love the controls on the Unisaw because they both are on the front.
> 
> - Woodmaster1


@Madmark & Woodmaster - Looks like nice set ups. But I don't have 220 in the garage. And those additions are a little pricey aren't they? And a 5hp saw is not even close to my budget



> All Grizzly table saws are on sale 10% off until April 10.
> I have been waiting for this to finally buy the G0771Z.
> But sadly due to the COVID I cannot buy any lumber right now.
> My wife said don t worry about saving $90 right now, get it later.
> ...


That's exactly how I arrived here, the current 10 and 15% off sales for Grizzly, Laguna, Jet, ect. But by the time I add shipping to the Grizzly the price is similar to the Harvey with free shipping and the Harvey appears to be the better build.



> Does anyone have any experience with Harvey s customer service?
> 
> - clagwell


That is the only remaining question I think left unanswered. Untested customer service.

Unless anyone else has anything bad to say about them, think I am going to go with the Harvey in a bit.

Thanks,
Chad


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## jhkast (Apr 25, 2020)

I'm in a similar place. I was also deciding between the Laguna Fusion F2, Grizzly G0771Z, and Jet ProShop, but this thread introduced me to the Harvey C200-30 as well. Seems to have all the features I like about the Laguna but $250 cheaper. I'll need to also get the wheel package, as I know I'll always want to rearrange my shop.



> Re: Harvey C200-30 table saw - so I just spoke to a marketing rep at Harvey who is willing to throw in free residential lift gate delivery and they are in stock.
> 
> He seemed very excited that after years of making other brand s equipment that they are branding their own. As far as I can tell, the C200-30 seems to be the best bang for the buck for me.
> 
> - Chadecoen


How'd you manage to swing this? If I can do that too, I might also go with the Harvey. $270 for freight brings it out of my price range.

@Chad did you end up making a final decision?

Thanks!


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## Chadecoen (Mar 22, 2020)

> I m in a similar place. I was also deciding between the Laguna Fusion F2, Grizzly G0771Z, and Jet ProShop, but this thread introduced me to the Harvey C200-30 as well. Seems to have all the features I like about the Laguna but $250 cheaper. I ll need to also get the wheel package, as I know I ll always want to rearrange my shop.
> 
> Re: Harvey C200-30 table saw - so I just spoke to a marketing rep at Harvey who is willing to throw in free residential lift gate delivery and they are in stock.
> 
> ...


I did! Just getting through assembly on the Harvey taking my time to get it right. 
https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/309058#reply-5289198

As far as shipping goes, I want to say it was free at the time but lift gate service added a bunch. I had put the saw in my cart but didn't buy it and the rep called the next day and included the lift gate service. I guess I am technically a business but I run it out of my house so delivery was totally residential.

Looking at the same 3 saws, this one is built better, has better customer service, and by the time I added shipping to the others the Harvey was less expensive - and in stock (the grizzly wasn't at the time)

Anyway, should be noted that I haven't used it yet but liking my decision so far.


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## RichS (May 3, 2010)

I have a Grizzly G1023RLS and preforms flawlessly. Yes, it needs 220-240v but a 15a circuit is fine. In my old garage shop I tied into the dryer outlet in the utility room. At only 15 amp draw a fairly long 10 ga extension would work in a pinch.


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## Chadecoen (Mar 22, 2020)

> I have a Grizzly G1023RLS and preforms flawlessly. Yes, it needs 220-240v but a 15a circuit is fine. In my old garage shop I tied into the dryer outlet in the utility room. At only 15 amp draw a fairly long 10 ga extension would work in a pinch.
> 
> - RichS


Congrats on your excellent ts. At 1500 bucks and 240 volt not sure it's within the realm of this thread. I'd love to have more saw but space, budget, and skill level dictated a smaller unit for me. Happy with my Harvey so far. Thanks


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Any Harvey buyers care to comment on the fence or give it a review? That seems to be the only question I have.


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## CameronKeel (Mar 1, 2017)

I know Sawstop wasn't listed by the OP, and only mentioned once or twice in the entire thread, but if you can, I'd suggest looking at Sawstop. Great saw, absolutely love mine.

Good luck,


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

I really like their featurs and of course, the old Unisaw was SOP, but their current reputation just scares me. I found thy have no pre-sales support so I can;t imagine their post-sales to be any better. So few have reported getting a complete working machine, just scared me off. Otherwise I woudl have a new Delta drill press, not a 30 year old one.



> I have a Delta Unisaw 5hp it is an awesome Tablesaw. I also use a Sawstop at my woodworking club shop it also is a good saw. I love the controls on the Unisaw because they both are on the front.
> 
> - Woodmaster1


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

A SawStop does not come in at the $1000 price point. With required accessories, a PCS 3 HP is about $4K. 
I think they are missing the market by jumping from a jobsite saw to the PCS.



> I know Sawstop wasn t listed by the OP, and only mentioned once or twice in the entire thread, but if you can, I d suggest looking at Sawstop. Great saw, absolutely love mine.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> - CameronKeel


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## CameronKeel (Mar 1, 2017)

I agree, but they are looking for 110, not 220. but it is still 3K for 1.5 HP 36" table and mobile base, no dust collection. He could look at the contractor w/ 36" table and integrated base at just over 2K.

Sawstop has awesome customer service, pre and post sale. That's personal experience and from a couple friends.



> A SawStop does not come in at the $1000 price point. With required accessories, a PCS 3 HP is about $4K.
> I think they are missing the market by jumping from a jobsite saw to the PCS.
> 
> - tvrgeek


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## Chadecoen (Mar 22, 2020)

> Any Harvey buyers care to comment on the fence or give it a review? That seems to be the only question I have.
> 
> - controlfreak


I have a pic or two here: https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/309058#reply-5289198. But haven't used it yet. Steel rails and heavy steel frame with an alum fence face seems stout so far. High and low position. Going to be a little tricky (I think) to build a router fence on back side and some jigs with the current shape. I hope to have more reviews soon once I get to actually use it. Thanks!


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## Chadecoen (Mar 22, 2020)

> I agree, but they are looking for 110, not 220. but it is still 3K for 1.5 HP 36" table and mobile base, no dust collection. He could look at the contractor w/ 36" table and integrated base at just over 2K.
> 
> Sawstop has awesome customer service, pre and post sale. That s personal experience and from a couple friends.
> 
> ...


I have already purchased but thank you. And I get it, Saw Stop is a nice unit. But at just over $2k it is way, way outside the perimeters of my saw search. Over twice as much, and while nice, is it twice the saw, IDK. It may well be, but wasn't worth entertaining being over the budget (for me that is).


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