# Dust collection advice needed



## Alongiron (Jan 10, 2011)

Here it is guys. I have a 24×16 shop as you can see in the pictures. I have purchased a 1 HP dust collector for low dollars ($50) my shop is ready for a dust collection system. Here is the problem….. I do not have the first clue on how to get started! I thought about running 4" PVC around the top of the walls with drops at each of the tools. One run down the 24' north wall, One run down the 24' south wall, One run down the 16' east wall and tie it all in to the dust collection at the end of my table by the mortising machine. I need some advise so that I do not mess this up. Please share any thoughts that you may have on my project. Thank you very much! Steve


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Very nice shop.
I have similar shop and I have a 2HP Harbor freight dust collector. 
I believe that your 1HP will not be enough. 
I strongly suggest that you go buy a 2HP for around $139.00 after discount before you do anything else as the size/capacity of your Dc will decide of many other things in your installation.
May be this is not what you wanted to hear bu this is the best advice I have for you.
In addition, if you make a search on the forum you will find a tons of already existing posts about this very subject.
I suggest that you begin by reading them as I believe that you will the answers to most of your questions.
Sorry.
Bert


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## Alongiron (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks Bert

That is what I needed to hear. Do you think if i purchased that 2 hp DC I could run 4" runs through out the shop?

Steve


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## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

My shop is about the same size (17' x 22'). I use the rockler dust right system with the expandable hose. I have ports on 7 machines and a downdraft sanding box. It is connected to a 2hp DC. I can very quickly move the hose from one port to another and the travel distance from port to the DC is usually shorter than it would be with built in tubes. I like the system a lot.

Note - I ran a hose from one remotely located machine to a more convenient location and put the port at that location. It makes moving the hose even easier. All my ports are conveniently located and relatively close to each other.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

*Steve*:

I've been trying to learn about dust collection, myself, lately.

There IS a lot to know.

My advice is to start by spending a few minutes on Bill Pentz's website.

It starts with what machines you have, and the CFM they need for adequate dust collection. It moves from there to duct sizing. It moves from there to static pressure losses. It moves from there to calculating the type/performance of DC you need.

If it were me (and it is/was), I WOULD start (and DID start) with the HF 2HP DC, and run a hose from machine to machine. If you start plumbing, and you've done it wrong … you might be sorry, later.

I say … do it once and do it right, and-until then-spend the $139 and run a hose …. WHILE you learn the fundamentals of dust collection-a fairly big bite to take 

Good luck !


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

As I said I have a 2HP HF. Everyone who has one loves it. 
I am in my shop for several months and I just begin to know where I want each tool/machine to be.
So Niel's advice is good, go buy a 2HP DC at Hf and also buy their hose/gate kit for around $59.00 then at first use a hose to decide where you want each machine to be and then and only then think about building a permanent ducting.
4" will be fine for what you want to do. 
Contrary to what you will read PVC or ABS piping will also be fine.
Read and Read and Read about the subject so that you will be familiar with it and able to decide what is best for you.
I hope this helps.
Bert


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

http://www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-industrial-5-micron-dust-collector-97869.html

http://www.harborfreight.com/dust-collector-accessory-kit-93601.html


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

I have to chime in here. On the HF DC, I own one as well. There is a REALLY good reason folks swap over a Wynn cartridge filter on these DCs, the 5 micron rating on the filter bag is dangerously coarse. The Wynn cartridge is 99.9% at 1 micron, and just barely below that at .5 microns. Not to mention it really lets the DC breathe very well…

As a bare minimum I would…

#1. Get the HF 2HP Dust Collector $139.00 coupon and get that DC…
#2. Get a Wynn 35A cartridge. The rating methodologies for the different media types is a little confusing, but to boil it down to soup & nuts, I wanted a fine filter I could wash out and re-use. Dick Wynn suggested I go with the Spun Bond Poly. $165.00 to my door. Worth every penny and then some…. Far less than the new PSI filters that are out there for sure!
#3. Build and install a Thien Baffle in the inlet ring of the DC to separate the junk from the filter, so that only a little bit of the finest stuff gets to the filter in the first place. If the filter isn't plugged, it's flowing well and picking up dust right? (Go to Phil's site, and fish around in his forums, there are a LOT of examples of the HF 2HP DC with the baffle installed…)
#4. Run a short hose machine to machine, and simply wheel the DC around to where you are working. Takes longer on the setup, but less hose means less restriction, means more air flow, and better performance.

THEN go to Bill Pentz' site and melt your skull on all that engineering information. Excellent information there, but it is a LOT of very technical stuff and hard to take in all at once…

A word of caution, that Ridgid OSS works great, but dust collection on that one is tough, not as bad as a miter saw, but tough still… I have been thinking about a big gulp hood for going behind mine to help out the OE port… The belt throws dust faster than the extraction port can pull it away…


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## rieferman (Jan 12, 2011)

This is just my opinion on boiling this topic down to an understandable summary level. I'm not an expert that will argue cfm, static pressure, velocity, etc. etc. etc.

When I was researching this, I found that there's so much information out there that it gets overwhelming in a hurry. Bill Pentz's website is amazing, but it's very detailed and can (quite frankly) be intimidating.

If you want "boy in a bubble" perfect air quality: 6" pipe, blast gates at each machine, cyclone, huge dust collector (aka… clearvue or similar), quality filter (Wynn) OR vent outside.

If you're willing to wear a respirator and still have to sweep up to some degree (but not much), and you're the typcial small hobby shop: 4" PVC, blast gates at each machine, thien baffle separator (google it for countless examples), 2 hp blower of some sort (and many will choose the harbor freight model based on price, the longstanding good reviews, and the fact that it looks like they came off the same factory run as the expensive models by different names), quality filter (Wynn) OR vent outside. In reality, I've been in a lot of shops with setups like this that are working just great.

Regarding pipe runs… avoid lots of 90 degree bends that kill air flow. Place the DC such that the runs are as short as possible.

Cyclone vs. thien baffle, and venting inside or outside. A cyclone or thien baffle is in place to separate out most dust and chips in an effort to save the filter from becoming clogged. Both work for this purpose, but the cyclone will work a bit better (for a lot more cost) but both are good solutions. However, if you're venting outside (rather than inside through a good filter) who cares? Save the money and build the baffle. The microscopic stuff will dissipate in the air anyways.

If you're venting outside, make sure there's a way for makeup air to get into your shop. Also, you'll hear about "sending your heated air out of the building"... Really, the thermal mass of the objects in the room will allow your space to heat up again in a hurry, so it's not that big of a deal. And, in most hobby shops, the DC isn't running for hours continuously. Me? I vent outside.

Keep the extra DC you bought, it can be used for a nice downdraft table.

Good luck! Again, I'm no expert, but hopefully a plain english summary was helpful.

edit: I've read TONS of info from dbhost (see post above that snuck in just ahead of mine).. and found all of it to be very reasonable and helpful. SO, THANKS DBHOST


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## ND2ELK (Jan 25, 2008)

Great looking shop. I have a 2HP cyclone unit in my 14 X 21 shop. If you go to the second page of my blogs and look at the blog "Dust Collection In". It will give you information on the installation and what duct work and equipment I used. Your 1HP unit might be a little lite. If you call Penn State Industries and tell them the size of your shop, equipment you have, they can tell you what you need. Good luck.

God Bless
tom


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## brunob (Dec 26, 2006)

I have a 2 hp Grizzly. The pipe around the ceiling is 6" galvanized duct pipe. The drops are 4" with a blast gate on each.


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## Alongiron (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the great advise. I can see I will have to take some time to think this through to find out what is best for my shop. I will keep you'all posted!

Steve


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## rpete (Feb 22, 2010)

This may be a dumb question but where are you guys finding a HF coupon for $139 dust collector?


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I've got a 2HP connected to the cheap man's galvanized trashcan cyclone. Works great. I have a TINY shop and a 1 HP did little for my dirtiest machines. The 2HP sucks harder than Kim Basinger's "Cellular". I've yet to run it overhead & have 4 inch hoses criss-crossing the shop. I guess you could say that I have little to add to the debate aside from don't forget to ground properly. Good luck.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

look in magazines or on the Internet for the coupon

http://dealspl.us/harborfreight-coupons/108017p
This one is expired but my store still accept them. May be look for a newer one.


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

Pete: Look in the back of a current Wood Magazine issue. There is usually a $139 coupon for said DC unit. It's a better value than the 20% coupon, which you should use instead on HF linkbelts, a stationary belt sander, a digital caliper, a lathe, or some other HF goodie.


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## TMcG (Mar 9, 2010)

That really is a nice looking shop !


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## redryder (Nov 28, 2009)

My dust collection has always been a broom and a dust pan. It's not as noisy. There is no stumbling over pipes and tubes. No extra distractions that the shop doesn't need. I enjoy turning up the tunes, having a beer and sweeping the place up when needed…........


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

redryder, 
I also enjoy using a broom and a dust pan (seriously) and to keep my shop very clean and very organized but the main reason to have a dust collector is not to keep the shop clean, it is to keep the air we breath clean. 
The idea is to capture as much as possible of the dust and wood particles at the source before they become airborne and enter our lungs where they stay and then create all kind of health issues.


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## snowdog (Jul 1, 2007)

My Uncle Floyd always said "a clean shop is a happy shop" it is true. Here is what I have:
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2060039/23418/Jet-Dust-Collector-with-2-micron-canister-Model-DC1200CK.aspx
I ran PVC drain pipe with blast gates and it works great.


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## Alongiron (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks again guys for ALL the great ideas. I was snooping around in Menards last night and I picked up a blast gate and a few other 4" accessories and took them over to where the PVC fittings were at. They don't fit! What the heck? I understand that after the blast gate that I will use 4" flex tubing to go to the machine but how are you that use PVC piping getting the blast gate to tie in with the PVC?


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## snowdog (Jul 1, 2007)

I remember having some trouble with that, I think I had to use the fat end to connect to the gate.


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## rieferman (Jan 12, 2011)

What type of PVC were you testing with? I don't know for sure, but I'm taking a guess that thick wall PVC vs. thin wall PVC may be the culprit. (i.e. the gates will fit fine on one type of pipe but not the other). Just a guess though, I haven't tested the theory.


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## snowdog (Jul 1, 2007)

Thin wall, used for landscaping drainage and run off. It was cheep and works great. If you like I can take a pic of my fittings and post them. Feel free to email me directly if you want to get this chat out of the thread. I am ok either way.


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## Robinson (Jan 11, 2011)

Quoted from dbhost…
>"A word of caution, that Ridgid OSS works great, but dust collection on that one is tough, not as bad as a miter saw, but tough still… I have been thinking about a big gulp hood for going behind mine to help out the OE port… The belt throws dust faster than the extraction port can pull it away…
=====================================================

That was my observation as well. Some woods are worse than others. When I noticed it I was sanding a piece of cottonwood which sands very fuzzy and it was spewing fuzz like mad.
I have two dust collectors. One is the HF-2 HP and the other a barely used Penn State 1 1/2 HP that I bought from a friend of my son who was moving and decided that he didn't need it since he seldom does woodworking. I already had bought the HF but got the Penn State for $50 and couldn't pass it up.
I'm glad I bought it because I want to plumb in both systems and in several cases run them both on the same job. Most of the time it will be machine sanding jobs like my Ridgid OSS and the 12" disk sanders on any of my Shopsmiths in particular. I also expect to run both at times during lathe work. I don't care about the heavy stuff so much but I want to move a lot of air to get the fine stuff from sanding that floats. I am still using the bags yet until I get it plumbed in but then I will be venting the larger one outside a good ways from the east end of the shop. Not only am I rural but this is a 105 acre farm. Our prevailing prairie wind is west to east and my closest neighbor that direction is over a half mile across the fields. Make up air will be fan forced into the stove nook and onto the woodstove in winter.
I spent over 20 years dealing with dust collection and exhausting in the shoe repair trade. The "dust" there is far worse than wood dust. Fuzzy leather dust and "dust" from all manner of rubbers and vinyls etc. Also we used a huge amount of really pesky adhesives and solvents. 
In some cases reducing area of a collection adapter can help increase the air velocity at a given point to pull in stuff. As an example, picture a big gulp and then add a baffle to the center that creates an opening all around the perimeter about an inch wide. It increases the velocity all around the perimeter and anything that hits in the center just slides to the edge. The shoe repair machinery designers learned that trick almost 100 years ago. A few woodstove makers use that concept to prevent smoke from spilling out across the top of the door when it is open.
On a side note: I noticed at Lowes this week that they carry a 4" plastic 90 degree elbow for clothes dryers that bears closer examination as possibly very useful in dust collection.


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## Alongiron (Jan 10, 2011)

Snowdog.. I would very much like to see a picture of your DC fittings. It would help myself out as well as many others reading through this information. Thanks


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## Lenny (Sep 28, 2008)

So *Alongiron*, is your head spinning about now? Let me add my two cents. I ran pvc piping modeled after *Patrick Jaromin*, a fellow Lumberjock. Patrick had done thorough research including the "required" Bill Penz information before deciding to go with PVC, 6" pipes at ceiling height, with 4" drops. He does a fun time-lapsed video of his entire installation on You Tube. Just search on "Dust Collection Setup - Time Lapse". You have to get the right size PVC though. The greenish stuff (Sewer and Drain - SD35) accepts most fittings whereas the white schedule 40 pipe does not. Oh yeah, a word of caution regarding sticker shock. When it comes to fittings, they can be very pricey. I found that Ace Hardware Outlet in NY (NOT your run of the mill Ace Hardware store) has about the best prices I could find for elbows and wyes. Here is their "link": http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/.

You can go to Patrick's home page and find his blogs on his installation and the same for me. I opted to ground my system by running a copper wire from the DC to each drop. You can check out how the grounding system continues to each tool. Good luck and feel free to contact me with any questions.


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## rieferman (Jan 12, 2011)

I've been wearing my 3M 7500 series respirator for a week now whenever I'm making any dust at all in my shop (including sweeping it up). My DC system isn't yet operational (need blast gates still, then I'll be done) so there's a lot of dust. I went from constant sneezing in recent weeks to completely cured within one week.

In other words, I'm hooked on the respirator. It's so comfortable to wear, I forget I even have it on.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

I also use a 3M respirator with HEPA cartridges even so I still find dust in my nostrils.


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## rieferman (Jan 12, 2011)

I don't see how that's possible - my guess is you have a mustache or beard, wrong size mask, or worn out filters, or wrong type of filter.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

I wear respirator at work also. 
Look at my picture and you will see that I shave.
What I say is that even after I have wear a respirator when I blow my nose I still have brown stuff (dust) in it.


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## snowdog (Jul 1, 2007)

I wish I could find a respirator that worked well with a bead and stash


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## rieferman (Jan 12, 2011)

Boy, that's too bad that you're still getting dust in your nose despite the respirator. Do you think it's somehow coming around the mask, or just getting through the filter? Just curious as I've had facefull of dust with my mask and come away clean as a whistle so far, and have heard many many others with similarly positive experiences. You're the first I've heard of with the opposite impression. (not being argumentative, just curious)


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## pcott (Jul 7, 2009)

This mask http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=62081&cat=1,42207 seals on my beard really well. And it doesn't fog my glasses.


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## snowdog (Jul 1, 2007)

Sorry for the large images:
Here are some fittings I used. Not pretty but it works and I was not going for the "oh so neat and tiddy look" Get-R-Done:


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