# Non adjustable frog Planes



## mandatory66 (Jul 26, 2012)

I was wondering what size the mouth was on the older non adjustable frog Stanley planes. Are these planes suitable for smoothing or just general bench plane work. I usually set the mouth on my bench plane approx. 1/16 inch or little less and forget it. My smoother is much less.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

66, I'm confused by the wording of the question, because I've not seen a Stanley bench plane (1-8) with a fixed frog. Then it seems you're talking adjustable mouths as well.

Bottom line, though, is the Bailey and Bedrock lines of Stanley planes are excellent smoothers.


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## jdh122 (Sep 8, 2010)

Unless you think that no-one could smooth with wooden planes before Stanleys were invented, it must be possible to smooth with a plane that does not have an adjustable mouth. You can get good results by setting the chipbreaker close to the edge of the blade, which works as well against tear-out as does closing up the mouth.

That said, I suspect it's no accident that all of the modern higher-end metal body planes (LV, LN for example) have adjustable frogs or mouths, as they make your life easier.


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

> I was wondering what size the mouth was on the older non adjustable frog Stanley planes.
> - mandatory66


I think all Stanley frogs were adjustable. The confusion might be coming in from Stanley adding an adjustment screw at some point along the line. For planes from before that you just loosen the two frog screws and set it by hand.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Keep in mind most infills (higher yet high end planes) do not have adjustable mouths.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

There was a stanley line of planes for the bench, called Defiance. The "frog looked like what was used on block planes. Just a cast in place ramp-thingy. Depth adjuster hung from inside the ramp. No frog adjustment, nor adjustable mouth was used. One just had to get by with a very sharp iron….

Note: A line called ParPlus also had a frog like that, as well.









and, this Defiance #4 seemed to work fairly well…


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

I have a pre-lateral #5 that's not Stanley (but was likely made by Stanley) that doesn't have frog adjustment (cast-in frog). I've never tried using it for smoothing but I know there's around 3/16" opening at the mouth. I have it set up for scrubbing and it works but takes a while to get it set back up after sharpening w/out lateral adjustment. Wouldn't want to use it for smoothing but that's more for lack of lateral than lack of frog adjustment. Set the chipbreaker fine enough and get it set up just right, it'll probably do a good enough job smoothing.

It wouldn't take long to find out how it does at smoothing. But if you haven't bought it yet and you're looking for a smoother, I'd recommend getting one with frog adjustment (#4 is my preference) since probably at least 95% of the ones in circulation today have frog adjustment. And, for the record, just because a plane doesn't have the frog adjustment screw doesn't mean it's not adjustable. You just have to move the earlier models by hand - they still have the slotted screw holes.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

> I was wondering what size the mouth was on the older non adjustable frog Stanley planes. Are these planes suitable for smoothing or just general bench plane work. I usually set the mouth on my bench plane approx. 1/16 inch or little less and forget it. My smoother is much less.
> 
> - mandatory66


As I recall the early models did not have a frog adjusting screw, but the frog can still be moved to close down the mouth. BUT-IIRC, on a very early #4 I had, I think the frog did not have slots so the mouth could not be closed (but I could be wrong about this).

Anyway, the procedure is remove the cap iron and blade and loosen the frog screws. This allows the frog to be slid forward. Tighten and reinstall iron and cap. What I've never understood is the necessity of the frog adjusting screw is if you have to go through all that rigaramole?

Some say you can leave the frog screws just loose enough for the frog to move via the adjusting screw, but this has not worked well (at least for me) because leaving the frog screws loose enough for the frog to slide leads to problems with plane performance.


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## mandatory66 (Jul 26, 2012)

Thank you all for your responses, I was not aware that the frog on the older planes could be moved within the slots for the frog screws. I thought those planes had a fixed frog. Thanks again.


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