# Keep stripping out screws. What can I do?



## trainwreck

OK….kiln dried 2×4 studs, 2 1/2" wood screws. I am drilling a pilot hole, but as soon as I get through the 1×4 to the 2x, the screw strips out. What gives? I'm building some lawn chairs for around my fire pit. These 2×4's are making me crazy! Thank God for vise grips, but man! I just wanna screw! LOL

Suggestions?


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## Loren

You have to really put your shoulder and weight behind the
drill when driving long screws. I've shown this to enough people
who'd never thought about it to conclude it isn't common
knowledge. In high-resistance screwdriving situations I
get the butt of the drill right up on my chest next to my armpit
or right behind my shoulder.

Square drive screws are another alternative. They are a little 
hard to find but they will pretty much end your problem.


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## LeeBarker

When you say "2 1/2" wood screws" do you mean drywall type screws or zinc plated screws with the hefty shank?

If you are stripping out the slot because of increased friction on the shank of the screw, there would be three solutions:

1. Smaller shank

2. Predrill with a tapered bit

3. Lubricate the screw

If I have one degree of uncertainty about a screw installation, I wax the screw. I use toilet bowl ring wax, but Grizzly and others sell stuff in a large caliber Chap Stick container (I have actually used Chap Stick on an install where I had forgotten my Ikempucky-another brand name of wax for screws).

Oh, and a fourth: Your bit may be worn out. As it wears, it gets sloppy and angled, and wants to ride out of the slot. Even if good quality bits cost twice what a drug store brand costs, you're what, out a coupla bucks?

Kindly,

Lee


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## trainwreck

I have been putting my weight behind the drill and making sure it's straight and inline with the screw. Looks like a trip to the hardware store for me for some square drive screws and a driver bit, huh?


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## jeepturner

I would question the type of tip you are using first. Is it the best match for the screw? I modify my bits by grinding off the very tip of a Phillips bit. My theory being that the very tip provides no traction to the application of torque. The wings of the bit must be fully engaged.

Hope this helps.


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## NBeener

BIG fan of *Lee Barker*'s #3.

I bought a toilet wax ring, and stuffed it into a plastic "can."

Before driving long screws, I shove the screw into the can, coating the threads with the wax.

DRAMATIC reduction in torque required to drive the screws > longer battery life, on cordless drivers > never strip them out, any more


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## trainwreck

My bit fits perfectly into the screw, and it is a new bit, but it's cheap, I think-it was a gift from my father. The screws are 8×2 1/2 and coarsely threaded. They says they're steel, but I'm pretty sure they're plated with something. Actually, as I look at them more closely, it looks like I can use a No. 2 square bit with them, so maybe I'll just try that and report back!


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## patron

maybe you need those 'deck screws'
the ones that come in brown or green
they are hardened
much better than standard screws
in the isle with the rest of the screws
and a box has the right drive bit for them


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## trainwreck

OMG! I had a 2 square bit. That thing is my new best friend! These babies go through like butter! Thanks guys!


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## BillWhite

I have a small fridge in the shop, so I keep the bowl ring in the fridge when not in use. They can get kinda messy during Mississippi summers if not kept cool. Bowl ring seal=cheapest screw lube goin'.
Bill


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## Stormin

I was down in the states a while ago and see they have a screw that is a cross between a Phillips and a Robertson should be a real dandy.


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## trainwreck

So I'm making 4 lawn chairs which means 40 slats for the seat/backs. Drilling pilot holes in an assembly line fashion….no problem except I melted my bit because I was going so fast. LOL


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## LeeBarker

Stormin, there's a general rule I find that applies impressively often in my world: If it's made to do two or more things, it probably won't do any of them real well.

I find that true of the combination head screws. Allowing the space in the center for a Robertson bit subtracts surface for the Phillips head and vice versa. I have a large box of these, 1 1/2" long, silver zinc, and they're yours, just come pick them up!

Kindly,

Lee


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## Gene01

Re: the toilet ring
Mine is in a "borrowed" Tupperware container. (she's got so many, she'll never know).
When doing a job with screws, I just stick a bunch in the ring. Keeps them handy, off the bench and lubricated.

David's suggestion for screws is right on! If the chairs are for outdoor use especially.

Another good screw is ""Timber Locks"":http://www.castlewholesalers.com/TIMBERLOCK-6-Screws-Box-of-50.html But, I think 6" is the shortest. I've used them up to 10". They have heads that require a socket type driver, like metal roofing screws. Threads up about 1/3 and then, a smooth shank. Great for timbers.


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## TheOldTimer

I agree with Lee, when you go to Home improvement store, buy a toilet wax seal and lubricate the screws, a good cheap solution.


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## LesCasteel

Go buy some SPAX screws at the big box store. Drill the pilot into the 1×4 if you wish with a nice countersink. Then drive them in. SPAX do not need to be pre-drilled. You can drive a SPAX into end grain Maple without drilling a hole first. You can choose one with square, phillips or SPAX heads.


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## Stormin

Good call Lee and The Old Timer you are probably right I seen them I never bought any. I'm spoiled I was raised using Robertson Screws. And Lee if ever I get that far south I will stop in and pick the screws up and have a visit.


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## dfletcher

One of the best ways to drive a long screw is by using an impact driver.

After switching from a drill to an impact driver, I strip, maybe, 1 out of every 50 philips screws. Much less if they are square bit and even less if they are torx bit.

Also, using a pilot bit designed for a #8 screw works best.


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## JasonWagner

I know the problem is solved but I second the impact driver and the square drive screws. Pre drilling helps but I use it more to keep the wood from splitting. An impact driver will drive a screw into and through the wood if you so choose!


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## woodrookieII

When screwing into the hard woods with brass screws I always scrape the screws with beeswax. Haven't broke a brass screw in quite a while now.

....rookieII


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## beckerswoodworks

Just my 2 cents but if you have to put your weight behind the drill as Loren describes then you didn't pre-drill it properly. Use a tapered bit of the correct width set to the correct depth with a little wax and the screws will go into even the hardest wood with little effort and will hold very strong.


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## JoeLyddon

I agree with using the Spax, self drilling, screws… they are really nice to use!

I also find that the Pocket Screws, panhead type, drill them selves too and work really good!
The upper part of the screw is smooth, leaving it to just HOLDING the 1x stock TO the 2×4 stock; works GREAT!

I get all of them from McFeeleys… (when they have $1 shipping on any order) the Spax are combo heads working on Phillips AS WELL AS the Square bits… Square bits is the ONLY WAY to screw!


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## TopamaxSurvivor

Those heads that look like a combo square drive and phillips never work very well with phillips!


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## brunob

McFeeley has a good supply of square drive screws but for outside stuff I use stainless.


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## trainwreck

Yeah…Don, I don't think I should have to put my weight behind it either. Make sure I'm drilling straight? Definitely, but I think the tools should have to do the work. Otherwise, what's the point?

I also agree about the stainless for an outside project. As far as the pilot hole, at first, I wasn't using the correct width, so it did help to correct that. Also talked to my dad. Turns out he used a bar of soap to lube up the screws. I don't remember that part when he was teaching me how to use power tools. I guess I was too excited dad was letting me use the saw!

You guys are sure a wealth of information, though! I'm definitely using the toilet wax ring trick-a container of that is going in my tool tote for sure.


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## NBeener

Haven't cracked open my first "assortment" pack of Spax screws, yet. Good to know they have a fan base.

Yeah. ABSOLUTELY the impact driver, too. My little Ryobi is worth its weight in (what ? Light, sweet crude ?).

And … I've got beeswax (and bar soap) ... and there's Ackempucky, too, but … pound for pound, and $ for $, I've always come back to that silly wax ring.

Call me sentimenal ….


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## Roger Clark aka Rex

An impact driver is a necessity tool, I use an M18 Milwaukee and it makes short work of any screws including large lag bolts.
Screw driving bits are not all the same quality and if i were you I would invest in several "Wera" brand driver bits. They are the best bits I ever had, they are hardened, don't wear out and can handle all the torque you can through at them and have a lifetime warranty. Needless to say they are made in Germany but available in the US, mine came from Amazon. Treat yourself.


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## trainwreck

I bought the nicest drill bit I could find to replace the one I melted, and I will slowly be upgrading my other bits as they wear out (which means since they're cheapies, after one project or less LOL). I will also be adding impact driver to my list of tools to buy next, and it will likely go to the top of the list.


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## allmyfingers

mcfeely for spax screws… we use them exclusively in our business. nothing more to be said


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## Kennyg

There are 2 solutions I have found to work for me. In the 1X pre drill the pilot hole the next size larger. It allows the the board to suck up tight. I have also the advantage of using an impact drill. I quit stripping screws!


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## NMguy

i love combo square Phillips bits and i don't know why all you guys are hating on them.


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## transam

The silver "wood screws" are soft and strip out very easy. If you want the least expensive way to do what you are doing but screws that hold good here's what I do:
Coarse thread drywall screws-They are case hardened so they won't strip out easily
DeWalt screw tips-the silver bits, not the black impact driver bits. Impact sockets and bits are softer to absorb the impacting.
Like others said, push reasonably hard and keep going until it's as deep as you need it.
I use the same wood glue (Titebond) I'm using for assembly as a screw lube. It's right at hand anyway and you can just wipe off the excess with a wet rag (which it right at hand too). No concern about wood contamination.
Just my opinion though.
Eric


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## themitrejoint

Impact Driver - must have tool. Combo heads - no. The right size bit - a must. Lube really helps - saves time and effort. If you are doing utility construction try leaning on the screw with the driver in reverse to "drill" the pilot hole. Then forward to drive the screw in. Quick and dirty. Saves changing bits. Works well for construction type work. SS a must for exterior work. Course thread drywall screws for just about everything else except hardwood. Readily available from 1" to 4".


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## allmyfingers

drywall screws are not hardened and are only for drywall! they can snap much easier than you'd imagine. never use them for anything that has to take stress or load.


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## greasemonkeyredneck

I have never had problems driving screws of any length. First off, before I start assembling everything, I have to get my drills set up. I usually have three drills going. One with the pre-drill bit. On with the bit to fit the screws I'm using. Then the last one with a 3/8" bit for countersinking so I can plug it afterwards. While I'm setting this up, I put the screws I'll start with in my mouth. You read tht right, in my mouth. If they are small enough, I'm not talking abut between my lips, but actually in my mouth. I learned from an old guy years ago that spit is the best screw lube there ever was. We won't even go into all the things that spit is good at lubing up.


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## fredf

When screwing into the hard woods with brass screws I always scrape the screws with beeswax. Haven't broke a brass screw in quite a while now.

....rookieII

I use a matching STEEL screw first to cut the threads, THEN I replace it with the BRASS

Turns out he used a bar of soap to lube up the screws.
trainwreck

Soap seems to attract water and RUST, wax is a much better choice!


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## allmyfingers

screws in the mouth??? never again since the day on a job when I was "sure" i had 3 self tapping zip screws in my mouth, but then could only account for 2…. did i swallow one? knowing my wife the O.R. nurse would kill me if i died from internal bleeding from a drill point screw, i shut down the job, drove 40 miles to the hospital and had a battery of X-rays that much to the disappointment of everyone who had gathered in the reading room showed no screws anywhere in my body except the loose ones in my head!!!


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## terrystggs

hey guys a money saving tip about wax. save the wifes candles before she throws them out melt and pour into a container. very good wax for your screws and hey it may smell a little better in that ole shop as well


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## TopamaxSurvivor

Another issue with holding small things in your mouth is sneezing! My daughter is a reparatory therapist. She says women with pins & needles in their mouths inhale them when they sneeze suddenly. I imagine small screws are the same ;-((


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## mafe

Perhaps it's time to make a greasebox… lol.
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/37809
All my fingers, I loved that story.
Best thoughts,
MaFe


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## Bertha

I like square drive bits and an impact drill. I predrill a pilot & keep a little square of paraffin (found in the canning section of the grocery) to wax the threads. I feel for you, I absolutely HATE stripped heads!


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## CampD

40 replies and your still stripping out screws!!


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## Manitario

Lots of great advice here! Took me awhile to realize that screw bits wear and then become useless, but I now always have a few new #2 Robertson bits on hand. Personally have never tried waxing the threads, but will have to try it; I use a lot of the coated screws for pressure treated lumber as they are pretty slick.


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## LeeBarker

Just a few comments as this interesting thread dribbles down to a fiber.

Soap introduces water.

I can't get parraffin to stay on the screw. The bowl wax does. Likewise the beeswax.

Nearly thirty years in the business and I've never felt the need for an impact driver. If I were installing cabinets day in and day out, yes. But there are certainly more useful and justifiable tools for the shop.

I use Fuller counterbore/countersink setups, and own two. I see here they are sold in a set of many. I keep one with a clearance bit and one with a tapered point bit. One drill, one bit.

With this bit you can countersink, if you stop at the right place, or counterbore, if you go in further and wish to plug the hole with wood. There are various brands with various prices, and I suspect that price reflects quality here.

I am puzzled by allmyfingers comment about drywall screws. Perhaps I should be saying "drywall-type screws." These fasteners I buy from my cabinet hardware wholesaler and they don't break. But they look like the screws that drywall guys use. I'll be more careful in my nomenclature.

As for hardware in the mouth, no thanks. It was a rule when I was a framer and we were on ladders a lot. Nothing, nothing in the mouth. I'm recalling my son's comment to my 18 month old granddaughter: "No, Emily, the carrot won't taste better after the cat licks it."


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## trainwreck

CampD, actually, no. I'm not. If you read all the posts, I posted that as soon as I switched to a square drive, they went in like butter. Took all of about 30 minutes or so after that to get all 200 or so screws in where I needed them.


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## NBeener

*trainwreck*:

LOL !

Heck, the *actual meeting* was adjourned LONG ago.

At this point, it's just a bunch of us, drinking coffee, and shooting the breeze ;-)


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## reggiek

Spax are great for this….and they do have exterior screws. I always lube a screw longer then 1 inch….and all of them if they are going into brittle or very hard woods. The toilet ring is a great idea…..I have used candles…and surf board wax also….you can use any non staining lubricant….just make sure you wipe off your piece after you have driven the screw.

The combo head screws are great IMHO. I like the square drives as they are a bit harder to strip then the phillips heads….also…the phillips head drivers seem to wear out/strip out quick….even on the so called "premium bits."


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## Bertha

Lee, I'm surprised to hear that you don't like impact drivers. I got mine by accident when I bought a Makita combo set. I figured I'd just use the impact driver for taking off a lug nut on a rare occasion. To my surprise, I prefer it. The head is immensely small, allowing me to get into tight places, but still retaining power. I feel that it's a bit easier to control (this may just be me, though). I also like that I can keep driver bits & drill bits (with the permanently mounted hex shaft; I'm sure they have a fancy name but I don't know it) in my pocket & be ready to pilot if need be. I've got six drills of what I'd consider high quality (DeWalt, Milwaukee, Bosch, Makita, and pneumatic) & I reach for the little 18V impact driver most often.


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## NBeener

Put me as a strong 2nd to *Bertha*'s comment.

Mine came about as a result of my brother-former Ryobi rep-saying, "What YOU need … is an impact driver," and popping one in the mail to me.

The smaller "form factor" gives me access to LOTS of fasteners that my screw gun is just too big to reach. The number of 2-1/2" fasteners it can drive into hardwood-compared TO my screw gun, using the exact same batteries-seems like double.

And … counterbore ? Sometimes, but … if it's not a really critical aesthetic issue … just bap-bap-bap-bap-bap-bap-bap, with the impact driver, and counter-sink the heads, instead.

AND … it's my one cordless tool that has a great, and BRIGHT, LED light !

[yeah. FREE was good, too ;-)]


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## BallardPops

Hi Trainwreck - As usual, I'm a day late and a dollar short and show up to the party as all of the good conversations are well underway. If you want to continue using Phillips type screws, let me suggest getting a driver tip with ACR, anit cam-out ribs. I've been using the same one for about the last 5 years and it is still going strong and I don't strip many screw heads. Just my 0.02 dollars American. Love this discussion! Work safe.

Pops


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## TopamaxSurvivor

BallardPops, I have never heard of ACR. I just goodled it and looked at Grainger. Grainger doesn't say anything about it in their listings, but McFeelys showed up on the goolge search with ACR mentioned. The pic looks the same as any other philips tip. Is there a way to tell if my DeWalt tips are ACR?


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## LeeBarker

Bertha-I don't dislike impact drivers!

Fine tool, and they have their place. I just was making the point that I see no need for one in my day to day work.

I keep four cordless Panasonics around (12v) and if someone (oh, say, for example, NBeener's kind and generous brother, who comes from a wonderful family wouldn't you say) were to surprise me one day with a gift beyond my current definition of gentlemanly generosity, why yes, I'd own it and cherish it and wax eloquently about its virtues here on LumberJocks and to the four corners of the earth.

Especially if it took the same batteries as my Panasonics referenced above.

(Which is an EY9106 to be alphanumerically precise.)

Or a Ryobi.

Or a Bunsen-Roscoe Turbo Slammer in the high-impact plastic blowmolded case with the 19 bit Slick-Kit.

Heck yes.


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## BallardPops

Hi TopamaxSurvivor - Yes, if you look at the tip you will see some ribs ground into the tip on each blade. They are about 1/32 to 1/16 apart kinda like tread on a tire. They provide a better bite into the screw head and help to keep from stripping it out. I found that it has worked for me. Hope you can find some, the ones I have came from Harbor Freight many years ago in a bag of 10 I think, don't know if they still have them or not. I don't know if DeWalt ground any into their tips or not. Hope this helps.

Pops


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## TopamaxSurvivor

Thanks!! ;-)) Now that I know what to look for, I'll look at my Dewalts. Mostly I run small sheetmetal screws and sq drive when I need a long screw that is harder to drive. The Dewalts are screwgun tips. They are an expendable item for sure ;-)


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## BallardPops

Hi TopomaxSurvivor - Try this site http://www.aaronsscrewdrivers.com/anti-camout_ribs.htm it shows a purdy good picture of an ACR tip.

Pops


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## Bertha

I'm starting to really like Lee Barker. And he's looking forward to that free impact driver  
Only a bunch of lumberjocks could debate for two pages over a stripped screw.
I love this place.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

Thanks pops!!


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## JoeLyddon

Well…

Looks like everyone is Stripping…

... Take it Off… All the way OFF… !! LOL


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## CampD

Trainwreck, yeah I read that 4 days ago, just bored today and by the 16 comments after I guess I'm not the only one.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex

Geez …....... With all these problems with stripped screws and all the all the advice given, I would have thought someone would have "nailed it" by now…....yawn


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## transam

I mostly use coarse thread drywall screws because they hold good, are cheap and redily available. If I'm concerned with breakage, because they are brittle, I use Wurth brand. I get the ones that have knurls under the head and a drill piont. They will easily go in without predilling. Of course you would want to predrill if you are doing finer woodwork so you don't get the veneer breakage on the top layer around the screw head.
Eric


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## trainwreck

Who knew such a simple little problem would generate so much discussion!


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## JoeLyddon

Well, there is stripping… and then there is stripping! LOL


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## dlmckirdy

Roger Clark - I used to use an M16. It could screw up most anything, even at 200 yards if you got the windage and projectile spiral right.

My grandfather taught me that in a pinch, rub the screw through your hair. There is enough oil there to lubricate most screws. My biggest problem now is that it is getting harder to find my hair.

I have nearly always kept a bar of soap (Ivory is non-corrosive) in my toolbox, even when working as a racing mechanic.


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## trainwreck

You aren't going bald…..your part is getting bigger. LOL


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## Roger Clark aka Rex

dlmckirdy: Geez man you only use an M16 on very hard woods. 
I bet you grandfather used Brylcream on his hair - remember that product? - "A little dab will do Ya".

Seriously for a moment, and only a moment, I have always found that stripping the drive head on screws is the result of: 
1. Using the wrong bit for that particular screw. 
2. Not using a bit sleeve to keep the bit "square" on the screw head.

Since I have got some really good quality bits (Wera) and used the above method, I have not had this problem of stripping screw heads.

OK serious moment over ….... back to normal.


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## flobro

I swear by those star head screws. They are made for decking, I believe but I have never stripped one out yet. I think they are called torx? They are totally amazing. You can go easy and even take your time, they will not strip.


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## devann

I can't believe it, this this is still going? Let me throw another log on the fire.
Stripped screws, what did I learn here? Not much but it sure is a good time reading all the comments.
I did learn how to get around the stripped screw problem a while back. It was by accident but this is what I learned. 
When purchasing a new drill driver I noticed that for and extra $20 I could get an impact driver instead. I sprung for the impact because it has 3xs the torque of the drill driver, same brand, pick one, doesn't matter. I have never had a problem stripping the head of a screw since. Any screw, it doesn't matter ether. They go in like butter. More torque= more bite = more control.
I have to use the snap in drill bits, but the common 1/16" drill bit will not tighten in a 1/2" drill chuck anyway.
I've also learned that I can change from a screwbit holder to a drill bit and back again with one hand while hanging off a ladder, I couldn't that with a dill chuck


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## DMIHOMECENTER

I read nearly all of these posts to see if anybody knew about the Ivory soap. Hats off to "dlmckirdy". He beat me to it.

Ivory is dry, portable and works great, is 99% pure (remember?), and it floats. No negatives at all. A trim carpenter Lonnie Dupree showed me that back in the early 90's after I burned the hell out of my own tongue. I was screwing a skinny 2 1/2" square-drive trim screw that only made it half into some oak nosed edge along a balcony overhang. I backed it out and without thinking instinctively (those days) touched it to my tongue. Sizzle. Ivory it has been ever since.

I square drive and star drive whenever possible just because they work better than phillips (just like phillips works better than flat).


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## Bertha

David, I've cooked my tongue before too! What I take away from all of this is that if you use a soaped torx bit in an impact driver & you still strip screws….it's time to switch to nails


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## mancave

I keep a tube of "chap stick" in my tool box, its nothing but soft vaseline, stays on the screw, does not take up much room, can be used as a lube for many other places too.


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## lewis62

Dont use soap, IT WILL MAKE THE SCREWS RUST QUICKER, not sure about bees wax which is part of bowl ring. The correct pre drill should be fine, impact drivers are great.


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## Grandpa

Lubrication is the answer. NBeener said it first. I install shower grab bars for a medical supply store. I install stainless steel screws that come with the bars. Yes I carry vise grips. I also carry a small jar of hair dressing that says it is Australian bees wax. I have used the toilet ring and bar soap and it all works. I got the hair dressing because it comes in a little 2 inch diameter container and smells good…LOL Lubrication is what it is all about. I sometimes twist off screwdriver tips when I don't use lube but mostly it is a stripped head. I use pilot holes and all that too. Lube it up.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex

Yeah grandpa, you get good results using KY gel, screws go in easy - and what a climax!


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