# Need to replace my old Makita LS1013 , but the reviews of new saws , Yikes !



## Steve_O (Mar 20, 2018)

Looking for a new 10" Slider Miter saw, replacing a Makita LS1013 i've had for maybe 12-15 years, sold it to a buddy. As i'm reading reviews for all the new sliding dual bevel compound miter saws, I get the impression that NONE of them can cut straight, they have slop, cant be made square, have blade binding, have problem fences. With my LS1013 I built all kinds of decorative passageways with built up crowns, frieze, architraves, etc…never had any problem with the LS1013 with outside corners coming together tight that you cant slide a piece of paper in there …is that because I understand that it's common sense not to apply any lateral force when pushing thru the cut ? (I've been doing carpentry since im 14 in 1983)...or has the quality of all the new saws tanked


> ? idk…What's up with all the negative reviews on these new sliding miter saws


? I paid about 400 new for the LS1013 ~15 yrs back…I figured spending 500-650 I would get a newer, updated version of what I had …but now i'm doubting. I own a Rigid R4512 table saw, which also gets those scathing reviews…I aligned the trunions and blade to the miter slots with my Mitutoyo, Noga on my incra…a little setup and it's great…I love it despite all the bad reviews. In it's price range, it's great.

If it weren't for the 15% negative reviews, i'd already have bought the Bosch CM10GD or the Makita LS1019 . 
Also looking at the JET 10SCMS…I own a few JET machines and im happy with. I'm not spending 1500 on a Kapex…I'm not big on dewalt even though i own alot of their tools… and i'd rather a 10" but im not dead set against 12" saws. Dust collection not a concern…whatever doesnt get sucked up I blow out the roll down shop doors with a leaf blower… I need some insight on currently available saws (march 2018) I know we all have or had great saws, but that won't help for buying one in the next few weeks or so.

Anyone care to share some insight of this ? Is there something to all these "cant cut straight" reviews ??
These people really go into detail with pics and video to prove their point. Can anyone put this in perspective ?

Probably the most accuracy i'd require is on "wrap around" frieze corners (above doorways or fireplace mantel) which the face and tiny end piece both have a 45 bevel up to 8" , they need to be tight…which the LS1013 did no prob. I know I could purposely make the LS1013 deflect and dish by not pushing straight thru the cut. Is it the same with new saws ? Reading reviews, it seems like more than just noob operator error.

Basically, I do alot of box work, some crown buildups, decorative passagways decorative window surrounds, architraves. I also do small production on occasion…maybe 10-20 bird houses , bee equipment, outdoor stuff, etc .

I appreciate any insight, and thanks in advance !


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

15% negative reviews means 85% of the the folks are happy. A lot of negative reviews come from second guessing or having a bad purchasing experience, not an issue with the tool itself. I'd buy what your intuition tells you to.


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## BlasterStumps (Mar 13, 2017)

I would look for the saw with features and specs that best fit your want list. If you can narrow your search down to a couple, I would get one and try it for myself so that I can have hands on experience with the tool. If you don't like it, don't keep it. Besides looking for the features, etc., that I wanted, my decision to buy would be based partly on warranty and; customer service from both the selling business and the manufacturer. Just my 2¢


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## Steve_O (Mar 20, 2018)

Hi guys, thanks much for taking the time to respond. Do either of you have one of the 2016-2018 sliding miter saws ? My intuition tells me that for every 1 person that complains, there are probably 10 more that didn't take the time to complain and just dealt, didnt notice the problem or just returned it ...this is what we see in the medical field (my day job). As for customer service, that's why I avoid dewalt. They make some nice stuff of which I own, but they dont stand behind their duds..

The hold downs on the bosch are not great from what I can see. 
Makita's hold down look similar to the ones on the LS1013 .


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## BlasterStumps (Mar 13, 2017)

"Do either of you have one of the 2016-2018 sliding miter saws ?" 
I do not. I have a 12" Dewalt and a smaller 10" Hatachi, neither are sliders. I have owned the Dewalt for something like 20 years. It's been a good saw.


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

X2 with Blaster = I've had the 12" Dewalt non-sliding for 15 years with zero issues.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

I've never looked a Festool, so I'll take that out of the response.
Nearly all the sliders I've looked at have the "slop" to which you refer. That's the reason I've stayed away from the sliders, and stick with the standard MS.
Cuts requiring large widths are done on the table saw in my shop.
Maybe I'm just too picky.


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## Steve_O (Mar 20, 2018)

Thanks guys. But any of the saws that we've owned from 10 to 20 yrs back won't compare to anything that's currently for available. I mentioned above, I owned a Makita LS1013 for 15 yrs. It was great, as were any of my Milwaukee and Bosch tools….but it seems you can't judge any of them by their past reputation. Seems they've all outsourced …and WE are the testers, we are quality control dept …there is no quality control dept anymore. Seems it's cheaper to save the expense of a QC dept and just crank out a few thousand machines and deal with the complaints ??? I do longer cuts on my table saw also…but there are some occasions when I need to make bevel cuts on up to an 8" frieze…and they need to be straight.

Anyone know anything about the JET JMS-10SCMS ?


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

My slider is a Dewalt 20v cordless and can't handle large stuff but is perfect for small flat trim.

CPO shows that JET weighing in at 72 pounds, but it has favorable reviews. If you have to haul it around it's gonna get heavy. It's also a full 15 amps so you have to be sure to find a 20 amp outlet on site.

Above you said "I know I could purposely make the LS1013 deflect and dish by not pushing straight thru the cut." - I think that's more a blade deflection issue and not a saw arbor issue - the best saw in the world with a thin blade will do that.


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## kyngfish (Feb 26, 2018)

For what it's worth, I just bought an LS1016L which is the 10 inch makita slider, and I built a set of back-loaded horn speaker cabinets with angles ranging from 45 degrees to 4 degrees and the Makita worked really well. I needed the slider because I had to do bevel cuts around 12 inches wide.

If you press (hard) on the saw at the very end of its capacity you will get a tiny bit of movement, but if you just trust the sliders to work and don't apply pressure in one direction or another, the cuts came out smooth. I'm sure for 1000 more the Festool is better, and maybe after a year of these projects I'll write a different review, but for now, I couldn't be happier. 100% worth the investment for me. I saw a few videos from people I like where you could see the same saw in the background, so I figured if some pros were using it, it couldn't be terrible - your mileage may vary!

Picture of my horns below so you can see the angles the Makita cut. The rip cuts were done with a Festool track saw, and "trued up" with a Bosch 4300 table saw.


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## vikingcape (Jan 3, 2013)

Charles Neil (member and pro woodworker) has the jet. Pm him and he usually helps out


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## Steve_O (Mar 20, 2018)

> For what it s worth, I just bought an LS1016L which is the 10 inch makita slider, and I built a set of back-loaded horn speaker cabinets
> - kyngfish


 Very nice speakers and rig in the background ! I just built 6 outdoor hanging wedge speakers that had angles…on the good old LS1013 . Your speakers look like they're gona sound pretty nice ! You've got alot of hard surfaces there though…your next project will involve building some wood frames and stuffing them with mineral wool. You might need a little absorption there, maybe some diffusion too. I run (believe it or not) an MC-100b out here in the wood shop. If you haven't heard of it, check it out. Probably the best fidelity, depth and smooth sound i've ever heard…four fat bottle KT88's.

I was looking at the LS1016 also, it looks good and has better reviews. But, I really like the features of the 1019, and it seems that the cordless version of the LS1019 does not have the dishing problem…so my guess is that they figured out that prob and implemented the fix on it's cordless version XSL06PT . My guess, they sourced higher spec, tighter tolerance rails for the XSL cordless version…the rails may look the same, maybe even interchangeable with the LS1019, but not cut from the same cloth. My problem is it's cordless ! I cannot think of any benefit of a miter saw being cordless. I have around a dozen or more cordless tools where having no cord does greatly increase my productivity..I have Makita's XTR01T7 Li-ion compact Router, it is a phenomenal tool… and cordless on a router saves SO MUCH time and effort..so cordless here is a huge benefit. ...but a miter saw is sitting there stationary, im not slinging it around like a drill, impact driver, angle grinder, mini circular saw, etc…. it's never been a problem or costed time to pull a cord over to a miter saw…and batteries dont last 20 yrs..so i'd be looking for obsolete batteries 10+ yrs down the line..and having to charging more batteries, it's one more thing to worry about. I dont need cordless in a miter saw…..hey maybe they'll make a cordless cement mixer soon too !

I think i'm just going to wait a bit. Finished up my last run of 20 swarm traps, I wont need a miter saw for a bit, so I have times …maybe Makita will put out a fix for the LS1019 …I also like the features and good reviews on the DW717 …but dewalt cx serv left me sour about their bad chucks on their cordless drills, I own alot of dewalt but im not a big fan . And the JET JMS-10SCMS also looks good. Weight doesnt matter. I do 99% of my work in my own shop so it's not moving alot. 15A not a prob, I have 20A outlets here in the shop, and 3 are dedicated…also have 220 outlets for my mill and 2 welders. Just would like to see some real world reviews on the JET 10SCMS …I cant even find one single video on it…I own some JET tools, they are built like a tank. Got their JBG-8A recently…it's overbuilt, no cut corners, im happy. Their stuff is made in Taiwan, which, if you have machine tools, you know it's a big difference from china or mexico.

I will have to inquire to charles neil about the JET JMS-10SCMS .

So, i'm still looking…Thanks you all for responding guys, I really appreciate it !


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

https://youngstown.craigslist.org/tls/d/hitachi-c12fdh-12miter-saw/6536658168.html

https://cleveland.craigslist.org/tls/d/hitachi-c8fb-sliding-miter-saw/6508931732.html

https://meadville.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=Miter%20Saw&sort=rel

Some nice CL offerings if you like.


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## Sawdust4Blood (Feb 16, 2010)

I've been running a Dewalt DWS780 (a 12 inch saw) for a couple of years now and couldn't be happier. I put a finish quality blade in it when I first got it and it's always been dead on for me. S you point out, technique may be a factor for those folks who are having issues). I bought it when they were running a special to get the saw and a free stand for ~$500. The one caveat that I would make is that it is a beast when it comes to size. That's not an issue for me because I have it set up in a fixed location and never moves. If I did the kind of work where I had to lug a saw around, the DWS780 would definitely be bigger than I would want to tote around.


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## Steve_O (Mar 20, 2018)

Thanks ! Same here, weight is no concern. 99% of what I do is here in my shop. Weight and dust collection are low on my priorities. I don't require 12"...10" covers all my needs, and I don't need or want cordless.

I'm over here in Northeast PA . Thanks for posting those craigs links. I appreciate it !
But for something like this, i'm looking to buy new.


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## kyngfish (Feb 26, 2018)

> Very nice speakers and rig in the background ! I just built 6 outdoor hanging wedge speakers that had angles…on the good old LS1013 . Your speakers look like they re gona sound pretty nice ! You ve got alot of hard surfaces there though…your next project will involve building some wood frames and stuffing them with mineral wool. You might need a little absorption there, maybe some diffusion too. I run (believe it or not) an MC-100b out here in the wood shop. If you haven t heard of it, check it out. Probably the best fidelity, depth and smooth sound i ve ever heard…four fat bottle KT88 s.


The house is new and needs some furnishing/rugs. I'm still playing with the damping for the cabinets but I'm certain it'll sort itself out. The amp is a 300B - but I'm already itching for a new project :/ please don't tell my wife - that MC - 100 looks sweet.

Best of luck on the sliding miter decision, I'm curious to see what you get and how it works out!


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## Steve_O (Mar 20, 2018)

> The amp is a 300B - but I m already itching for a new project :/ please don t tell my wife - that MC - 100 looks sweet.
> 
> Best of luck on the sliding miter decision, I m curious to see what you get and how it works out!
> 
> - kyngfish


I've had a few solid state and tube amps over the years, also had an MS30L …the MC100B is beyond anything i've ever heard. Must hear to believe. It's cliche, but yeah…you hear details come out that you never noticed in the music. There is a good guy in canada i got the Yaqin from . You need info, pm me …And Thanks for the responses everyone !


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## Steve_O (Mar 20, 2018)

Anyone else care to chime in ? I appreciate any input on this !


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

pm sent, share if you wish .


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## Ripper70 (Nov 30, 2015)

> I ve been running a Dewalt DWS780 (a 12 inch saw) for a couple of years now and couldn t be happier. I put a finish quality blade in it when I first got it and it s always been dead on for me. S you point out, technique may be a factor for those folks who are having issues). I bought it when they were running a special to get the saw and a free stand for ~$500. The one caveat that I would make is that it is a beast when it comes to size. That s not an issue for me because I have it set up in a fixed location and never moves. If I did the kind of work where I had to lug a saw around, the DWS780 would definitely be bigger than I would want to tote around.
> 
> - Sawdust4Blood


+1 - I got the DWS780 for $599 with the Dewalt DWX726 rolling stand thrown in for free. Tax free and free shipping from CPO. Dunno when they'll offer that combo deal again but DeWalt does it often enough. I've seen the same deal at HD but saving on the sales tax on the deal from CPO was enough for me to finally pull the trigger.

As for the machine, it's probably the best tool I own. I read plenty of reviews that questioned the saw's accuracy but mine cuts dead on and, though it required some tweaking out of the box, since it's been set it's stayed that way through plenty of usage. And making adjustments is very straightforward and simple to do. I'm not a pro and my finish carpentry skills leave allot to be desired but the DWS780 raises the level of my abilities to the tasks I've undertaken.


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## Steve_O (Mar 20, 2018)

Thanks guys , but im looking for a 10" .

Looking for a 10" . 10" has done everything I need for the past 20 yrs.

So i'm only looking for 10" saws.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the responses !


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## Ripper70 (Nov 30, 2015)

> ...and i d rather a 10" but im not dead set against 12" saws. Dust collection not a concern…whatever doesnt get sucked up I blow out the roll down shop doors with a leaf blower
> - Steve_O


Gotcha. I saw this in your OP and offered my opinion on the DeWalt. Couple of last comments. The dust collection on the DWS780 is actually pretty decent for a SCMS. None are very good, but this one ain't too bad.

Also, the 10" saws you're considering carry a premium price tag that seem to be in line with the DWS780. Seems like something worth considering. For me, the biggest advantage of the DeWalt it it's 6 1/2" vertical capacity for base moldings in addition to the 16" capacity for dimensional lumber.


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## Steve_O (Mar 20, 2018)

Thanks much Guys ! As far as dust collection, it's not a concern. I roll up the door and blow out any dust…
As for crown, I cut crown laying flat, face down and anything i've ever had to do, 10" was enough.


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## Steve_O (Mar 20, 2018)

Thanks much Guys ! As far as dust collection, it's not a concern. I roll up the door and blow out any dust…
As for crown, I cut crown laying flat, face down and anything i've ever had to do, 10" was enough.


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

> ...is that because I understand that it s common sense not to apply any lateral force when pushing thru the cut ? (I ve been doing carpentry since im 14 in 1983)...or has the quality of all the new saws tanked ???
> 
> - Steve_O


IMO, The over all quality of most of the big name scms's has only gotten better in general sense.
In the shop right now….I have…3 Makita, 2 Dewalt, and 2 Bosch scms's. All 10" except one of the (older)Bosch's. The newest is a year old Bosch CM10GD. I don't like it, neither do most of the guys in the shop. The Axial Glide system is impressive. Solid and ultra smooth. The only things I can really pinpoint about what I don't like is the fence. The left and right are too far apart, and when the top sections are slid out out of the way, the lower section is too low. It's an uncomfortable saw to use on small pieces without an auxiliary fence.. I think for the most part, the dislike is just simple ergonomics though, it's a solid, tight saw. The Makita's get the most heavy use, and they're the first choice in the shop when the guys have a choice.
I have nothing good to say about Dewalt in a general sense, so I won't. You either love Dewalt, or you hate em.
You are very correct about the lateral force applied when cutting. Most guys that complain about the slop in a cut are the ones who use poor quality, dull blades, and have a heavy touch.
Sharp, quality blades and finesse are the key to a scms. 
My advice….If you've used a Makita for 15 years, and you like it and are comfortable with it, buy another Makita with similar ergonomics and you'll be happy.
Add this in….I've never used the Makita LS1019 style, so I can't speak for that one. Most of what I'm referencing is in relation to the LS1016-17 and 18 styles.
Also….Be aware, I'm a Makita fan and always have been. The make good quality, solid tools, and they're one of the few power tool companies who's good reputation has never wavered.


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## Steve_O (Mar 20, 2018)

Definitely. Makita was always top notch all the way back into the 80's I remember. I also don't have any love for DeWalt… after calling their Cx Svc about their 20V bad chuck's , I hung up frustrated and angry…and I own ALOT of DeWalt. I was just using my DW782 yesterday …and it reminded me how it's non soft start slows down production. ...Soft start is nice when I've got to bang out 50 pcs of something and not have to be fighting the saw all day. Makita is soft start.


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