# Shellac - Flakes vs Canned?



## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

What are the advantages to mixing your own shellac vs just buying the ready to use Zinsser Bullseye or Sealcoat?


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

From a great review of finishes by Charles Neil. Shellac in can is suppose to last only about 6 months. You can mix flakes in any proportion you want and in as small an amount as you like.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

The Zinsser keeps for a couple of years from my observation.

Some finer shellacs are only available in flakes. For everyday
shellacking I use the stuff in the can as it's a good cut of 
shellac for the money and keeps ok.


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## JL7 (Apr 13, 2010)

Agree with Doc, buy the flakes and mix small batches….I wrap some black tape around the jar lid also…...


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## woodenwarrior (May 23, 2012)

I like using Tiger Flake garnet shellac. I really think the finish is better with flake versus canned. It lays out smoother and buffs out easier than Zinsser does. The ability to mix your own in any cut and in any amount is a really nice benefit. In the end, flakes end up being cheaper than canned shellac.


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

You can also mix flakes to a thinner consistency which folks do sometimes for that first coat. That way it will soak in a bit more. And yes, the shelf life of mixed Shellac is short.

By the way, did you know that Shellac was made from the secretions from the female Lac bug? If it were from the male Lac bug, they would have called it Hellac.


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

I've read similar,, but I don't think it as that short of a period. Regardless, the concensus is that from the moment you add alcohol the shellac starts to degrade, so if you're not turning it over quickly you should consider flakes.

You can thin premix just as easily, though.


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## ClintSearl (Dec 8, 2011)

No advantage either way. Shellac is unnecessary.


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## BuckI (Oct 12, 2009)

Where do you guys buy the shellac flakes from? I bought some flakes from Rockler and haven't used them yet-thanks for any help.


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

That's where I've gotten mine so far. Be aware that that flakes also come in color and wax.


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## dawsonbob (Aug 5, 2013)

Does amber shellac come in de-waxed, too, or would you have to add some dye to get de-waxed back to an amber color?


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Thanks for all the quick answers. I'll look into the different flakes available. I really thought that being able to choose a color/tint would enter into this discussion?
What does garnet shellac look like?


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## Lewislandry (Dec 25, 2013)

Here's another tidbit about Zissner shallac… Yesterday I thought I smelled something all day while working in my shop. The smell just kept getting stronger as the day wore on. Late in the day I reached for a cabinet scraper and noticed something dripping from the cabinet. Yep, the Zissner Shallac (nearly full can) had sprung a leak. What a mess. MS wouldn't touch it. Had to use Acetone for the clean up. This is the second time for me in a couple of years that a can of Zissner shellac broke out of its can. Had two cans. Both went into the garbage. Additionally, the shop is heated 24/7 so can't blame freeze/thaw. Bye bye


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## Lewislandry (Dec 25, 2013)

Here's another tidbit about Zissner shallac… Yesterday I thought I smelled something all day while working in my shop. The smell just kept getting stronger as the day wore on. Late in the day I reached for a cabinet scraper and noticed something dripping from the cabinet. Yep, the Zissner Shallac (nearly full can) had sprung a leak. What a mess. MS wouldn't touch it. Had to use Acetone for the clean up. This is the second time for me in a couple of years that a can of Zissner shellac broke out of its can. Had two cans. Both went into the garbage. Additionally, the shop is heated 24/7 so can't blame freeze/thaw. Bye bye


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

FYI:

Zinsser is a 2 lb. cut generally. That's 8 oz of shellac 
to the quart.

When you figure in shipping on shellac flakes, it's
not a bad deal since it can be got at hardware
stores easily. If you don't use shellac often or
on larger pieces, mixing it from flakes can be 
economical.

Denatured alcohol has a cost too. A gallon of
2lb. cut mix-it-yourself flake shellac is likely to 
run $50 ($15 per lb shellac + $5 shipping, $15
gallon of alcohol) or more when you crunch the
numbers.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

You can dewax shellac yourself but I don't know how to
bleach it. The super-blonde grades are in the $30/lb
range (plus shipping) and the ambering of the work
is not too much. It looks and sounds great on spruce 
guitar soundboards. The color is just slightly warm.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

I really thought that being able to choose a color/tint would enter into this discussion?

Especially because you can mix your own. I am going to get a few different colors and experiment.

I like flakes because of shelf life. I think the can stuff last as long longer than people give them credit for - however I do notice that when french polishing cans that have been opened for a while (~2 months or so), the shellac tends to shrink a lot more than it did when it was fresh. I don't have a problem with brushing thout

French polishing doesn't use a lot of finish, I just mix what I need.

I wish more people would open up to shellac as more than a sealcoat. It really is a fantastic finisn


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

Shellac<Lacquer


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

premixed Zinssner. Never had any trouble with it. Available locally.


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## Woodwrecker (Aug 11, 2008)

I use the can stuff Doc.
I don't really see any advantage on the flakes, and the last time I checked, it cost a lot more.


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## mrbreezeet1 (Jul 4, 2012)

*"No advantage either way. Shellac is unnecessary"*
Shellac is a wonderful finish.
Used to get the super blond from Hardwoods and more, but last time I wrote them, they were out of it. 
I guess the price has gone up considerable too.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I love shellac, and use both flakes and Zinsser. I can't add much to what's been said, except a couple of tips: brushes don't need any cleaning. Let them set up and then store. Prior to the next use, just let it sit in the shellac for a few minutes, the shellac re-dissolves what's on the brush and you're ready to go. But if you do to clean some up, like the leaky can or whatever, use household ammonia. Much cheaper and very effective. I store my mixed shellac in canning jars with a plastic storage lid in a small fridge in the shop. I've been able to keep it about 10 months this way. I store my Zinsser in the same fridge and have never had any go bad, they have some magic they put in the can to help it keep….it's lasts much longer than 6 months. Shellac is a great finish in itself for many uses, and it's unparalleled in helping with all kinds of finishing problems. Check out shellac.net for flakes, they seem to have a broader variety than most other sources.


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## cdarney (Feb 7, 2010)

I, too, have used flakes and canned. I usually fall back to the Zinsser, full strength, fr the first coat or two for sealing the grain. Then I mix some about 50:50 with DNA for hand coats with a small rag. The flakes are easy to mix an exact cut but I've really found that level of precision unnecessary. I probably won't buy any more flakes once my supply is gone.

I use shellac enough that long-term storage is not a problem. When I cut the Zinsser I only make small batches and use it up quickly.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Interesting thread.

Don't know if anyone has discussed "blotching?" Also interaction over time with finishes? Charles Neil has his own preconditioner. It prevents the blotching in various woods. Patterns in wood that make the piece interesting can blotch badly.

Shellac flakes have gone up in price, but so has everything else? There are many ways to finish a piece. If stain or dies are used, then something to fill the pours of wood is a must?

From what I have read or seen Dewaxed Shellac is the only way to go now days.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I use shellac for a sanding coat only and apply other finishes over it. I use the canned variety and have had no problems, even with some that a friend gave me that was a few years old.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Oh yeah, for a practical guy, who does not want to maintain a finish, don't set any wet beverage on a shellac finish, . I have had moisture get under a box sitting on a 1939 table! Sat a long time. Bleached the finish!


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Doc, I'm not exactly sure why you wold think dewaxed is the only shellac to use. If it's the adhesion problems that are often referenced, that only occurs when the top coat is a urethane resin formula varnish, and some waterbornes. I ignore the adhesion problem, since I have no urethane resin anything in my shop. I am switching over to waterbornes, but it's a case by case issue, so I'll try a few and then move ahead. Sometimes when buying the colors, they can only be found in the waxy version. Besides, the waxy seems to be a little more water resistant than the dewaxed.


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

Oddly enough Fred, flexner says waxed has less water protection.


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## GaryC (Dec 31, 2008)

I use Shellac Shack for supplies


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

>>>>Oddly enough Fred, flexner says waxed has less water protection.

I will always defer to Bob's opinion on such things. It's possible I was having a senior moment (I can always use that excuse!), but more likely I am just flat ass wrong. Thanks for pointing that out.


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## Bluepine38 (Dec 14, 2009)

I tend to use Zinzer Sealcoat on most of my projects, it goes on easy and dries quick. On a warm summer
day I have easily put on three coats of shellac and sanded each coat then put the first coat of water based
polyurethane on to dry overnight. This gives a very nice finish in my opinion and is durable. I have not used
shellac flakes since high school shop.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Well, a lot of replies and opinions. I appreciate them (most of them). No one has convinced me that I need to switch to flakes yet.

Shellac has become my favorite finish since Black Cherry posted his application blog. I have used plain old Zinsser's Bullseye Shellac and been happy with the results so far.

Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

Thanks all.


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## mrbreezeet1 (Jul 4, 2012)

what about this alcohol kleen strip and crown that .shellac.net talk about.
Is it really Better?
I can't find it local.


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## mrbreezeet1 (Jul 4, 2012)

What about SUNNYSIDE Denatured Alcohol ?
I have heard that is pretty pure. 
Our local Busy beaver has it, quarts only though I think. 
Looks like where I used to get my flakes is closed up.
http://hardwoodlumberandmore.com/

Who has the best price on super blond de waxed shellac?


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## Purrmaster (Sep 1, 2012)

I've seen the Tiger shellac flakes at my Woodcraft. If you've got one near you they might have shellac flakes. I can't say anything good *or* bad about Zinsser. I've always mixed my own. I think this has been mentioned but only their Seal Coat product is dewaxed. I've used both waxed and de-waxed flakes and generally prefer dewaxed.

One small note: If you are concerned about the health effects of denatured alcohol you can use Everclear (the 200 proof stuff) to mix your shellac flakes. (Yes, I did it and it worked fine) You'd end up with a completely non-toxic solution. You could probably drink it if you really wanted.


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## mrbreezeet1 (Jul 4, 2012)

*Purrmaster said;................."You could probably drink it if you really wanted "*
Sure you can….........
Thats what the die hard drinkers back in Hi school used to drink.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Shellac can springing a leak, that's happened to me 3 times.

Shellac is unnecessary, that's just an opinion. 
,


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## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

Andy I buy a can and it gets used in a few months. No fuss or mess mixing. IF its to thick I thin it.
I seal everything with sand and seal. Then it will take ANY finish.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Mr. Breezeet1, I use sunnyside because it's what I can get at Menard's (little cheaper). Works fine. As for the super blonde, I again refer to Shellac.net, without knowing whether they are they cheapest. They also have one called Platinum, which is almost water clear. Here's a pic of it on maple out in the sun. The magic marker is the line between the shellac and the unfinished wood, the shellac is one the right.


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

Dave, I've never used sand and seal. After reading your post I ordered a can to try it out. So much to learn…


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## woodsmithshop (Sep 10, 2008)

ok, now I am going to show my ignorance, what is the difference between waxed and dewaxed shellac? does the waxed repel other finishes? is one better than the other? does each one have it's place, different uses?
so far all I have used is the canned stuff, sometimes it works great other times not so good.


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

My understanding is that wax is naturally found in shellac, which is produced by lac beetles. I'm amazed that we haven't synthesized shellac yet, especially with how vulnerable the world supply can be, as shown by recent shortages. Of course, wax isn't something you'd want to use as a base coat for some types of followup finishes. They have the ability to remove the wax, so they have their respective uses.


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## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

Todd I have had great luck with it. I have even sprayed it in an airbrush.
Shellac Origins and Manufacture


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

WOW!

That video is awesome! I can't believe how labor intensive the process is today!

I literally spit my coffee out when he said "so yes, lac does grow on trees".


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