# CNC machines - not just for routing



## DS

*CNC machines - not just for routing*

On this forum, when we talk about a CNC machine, we often are assuming we are talking about a CNC Router. 
Usually this is inferred to be a hobbyist level CNC Router costing anywhere from a few hundred dollars to maybe ten or twelve thousand dollars.

My purpose in making this post is to maybe broaden the understanding of what a CNC machine actually is and expose others to the wonderful world beyond hobbyist CNC Routers.

By definition, CNC simply means Computer Numerical Control.
It is not specific to any particular machine.
It could be anything from a drill press to a wheel alignment machine for your car.

For the purpose of this forum, I will constrain the topic to the world of CNC Woodworking.

I have experience configuring, programming and using most all of these machines and will hopefully provide some insight into their use and operation as best I can.
These machines are most typically used in a high volume production environment and are usually highly specialized.

I will do my best not to bore you.

*Horizontal boring and dowel insertion machine.*

Speaking of boring, the world of mass produced frameless case goods depends highly upon the automated dowel insertion machine.
This machine is a secondary process that runs after a part is already cut to the overall size and edgebanded.

A barcode label, previously generated is scanned by a handheld scanner which loads the correct program for that part and prompts on the computer screen show the operator the correct orientation to insert the part.
8mm holes are then drilled into the edge of the machine and dowels, pretreated with adhesive are inserted into the drilled hole in a single operation.










http://www.gannomat-akins.com/images/index-logic-130-500.png






*Beam Saw*
A beam saw it a very large piece of machinery that slices large sheets of plywood into finished parts. 
It can cut several inches thick of sheets good simultaneously following a computer assisted cut pattern.
360 degree rollers in the table (in the shape of a giant capital letter 'E'), assist the operator in moving the heavy material around with ease.
Higher end machines have a material queue that automatically select and load the appropriate sheet goods called for by the programming from behind the machine.
As parts come off the saw, barcoded labels get printed at the saw's console which identify the part and provide a barcode for further machining.

If high volume and repetitive cuts are the name of the game, a beam saw can cut them with unrivaled speed and efficiency.










https://www.scmgroup.com/website/var/tmp/image-thumbnails/40000/48302/thumb__SCM-imgProdotto/814-gabbiani%20gt%[email protected]






*Point-to-point*
While technically this is still a CNC router, it operates differently than most.
A point to point machine works on a single part at a time.
Its job is to detail the basic squares that come off of a Beam saw-this includes drilling, dado-ing and special geometry, such as toe notches and radii that a beam saw cannot cut.

The unprocessed part is loaded onto the machine on a system of Pods and Rails.
The pods are vacuum suction cups to hold the part and the rails allow the positioning of the pods in order to properly hold the part.
Some machines automate the placement of the pods and rails while others are more like dedicated fixtures that need to be moved by the operator.

There are often multiple working zones on a machine that allows the machine to be processing on one part of the table while the operator unloads and reloads the other work zone.
This choreographed dance is coordinated by a secondary control stantion with the basic start/stop controls for each zone in an area usually in between the work zones to minimize the footsteps required for the operator.

There are several varieties of machines that usually incorporate a tool carousel, or tool rack, with multiple tool holders for changing router bits.

There are also options for multi-drill heads, both vertical and horizontal, and aggregate tool heads for things like saw blades, edgebanding heads, or multi-axis wrist attachments.










https://www.biessecdn.com/media/cache/img/1240/178_n_Rover_B_generale.png






*Edgebander*
We don't often think of an edgebander as a CNC machine.
However, except for the entirely manual, hand fed "machines", there is usually a PLC, or, Programmable Logic Controller ensuring the proper functioning of even the most rudimentary machine.
Nowadays, however, edgebanders have evolved increasingly sophisticated machines employing lasers and touch screens with full on computers to control them.










https://www.holzherusa.com/fileadmin/_processed_/6/6/csm_img_pr_kantenanleimmaschine_lumina_1598_industry_holzher_6cdcaa7b8e.png






*Upcut saw with optimizing auto-pusher*
This is a machine that processes linear S4S materials like face frame rails and moldings.
A cut ticket is loaded onto the console and the machine manages the material on-the-fly to get the best optimization of the materials presented by the operator.

The operator loads a board onto the infeed table and uses an orange, or other brightly colored crayon, to mark the defects in the lumber.
Knots, checks, splits, mineral streak, what ever part of the material is unsuitable for use, the beginning and end of the defect is marked with the crayon.

The machine pushes the material into the saw and starts with a squaring off cut.
It pushes the board further into the upcut saw, comparing the length of the lumber to the cut ticket in the queue.
It tries to cut the largest part from the smallest material first.

If it encounters a defect mark, it determines the largest part it can cut from the available length and cuts the part to finished length.
It pushes the finished part to the outfeed table and prints the part label, all while measuring for the next piece.
It continues in this manner until all the parts on the cut ticket are processed.

The machine cuts as quickly as the operator can mark defects on the incoming lumber and unload the finished parts.










https://razorgage.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/APS-2016-scaled.jpeg.webp






*CNC lathe*
A typical CNC lathe has only a small subset of cutting tools.
These tools are knives mounted in a horizontal carousel and held against the spinning working piece held between turning centers.
The difference in the various knives are mainly about the shear angle, (such as left bias, right bias and center), and the finishing.
There are also knives for rough cuts to remove bulk materials and there are finishing knives as well.

Some more advanced machines can automatically load new blanks from a batch queue and unload the finished turnings into an output bin.
Other options include secondary processing abilities such as routing of mortise, reeding, fluting, spiral cutting and 'carving' custom ornamentation, such as grapes, or leaves.
These operation use a 2D Router spindle and tool changer system mounted behind the turning axis.
Only X and Y are needed on the router, as the Z axis is typically aligned with the centerline of the turning and the rotary A axis turns in synch with the X and Y.










http://www.premiermach.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/T-Max.jpg






*CNC Router lathes*
This is a relative newcomer to the scene.
This is technically a 4 axis CNC router, where the fourth axis is the rotary axis.
All the cuts are made with router bits in a high speed spindle, while the work piece is held between centers rotating relatively slowly.

These systems typically have a tool carousel holding specialized router profiles designed for the specific application at hand.










https://lagunatools.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/CNC-Turner1.png

*CNC Molder*
As the name implies, this machine produces S4S moldings from rough stock.
Rough sawn lumber is usually straight line cut on a gang-rip saw in a prior operation.
The molder has a number of heads, usually at least four, but often as many as six heads-each of which cuts a profile on one face of the molding as is passes through the machine.
This is a setup is usually controlled by a PLC and involves a significant amount of manual setup.

However, in recent years a few machines have come out with automatic tool changers that can swap out cutting heads and adjust to the preset positions for those tools.
What used to take 30 minutes to set up, now take seconds.
These machines are more suited to the boutique molding houses that manage several small runs of common profiles that can switch out several times in a day.
They haven't caught on too well, because of the high cost of these machines compared to the more manual ones that typically run very large batches of moldings before the tooling is switched out again.










https://www.scmgroup.com/website/var/tmp/image-thumbnails/50000/56988/thumb__SCM-imgProdotto/[email protected]






*CNC Door Shaper*
This machine is typically used to make entry doors, but is also applied to make cabinetry doors as well.
Materials are processed one part at a time according to the part type that is selected on the touch screen.
When the pre-sized part is set on the table and pressed against the fence, it is clamped, measured and the appropriate operation chosen and cut before releasing the finished part.
It has a shaper spindle with multiple profiles, (usually the cope, stick and panel profile on on head) is guided on an X, Y, Z rail system to make the cuts behind the protect enclosure.

If a cope cut is selected, the head adjusts to that cutter height and the cope cut is made on the part.
If a arch profile top rail is selected, for example, the stick cutter is moved into place and, after the part is measure (using lasers), the appropriate arch geometry is calculated using the program settings and the part is cut.

You could place three different length top rails, one at a time, into the machine and three unique radiused arches will come out based on the part length that inserted.










https://www.uniquemachine.com/images/2681_CNC.jpg






*CNC Dovetailer*
This machine has but one purpose - cut dovetails joints.
The touch screen has a variety of different joint styles and parameters to handle nearly every sized drawer box.
Multiple dovetail cutting tools are spaced at every other dovetail and by placing two parts front to back and slotting them from either the top, or the front table you can produce either two sets of pins, or two sets of tails in the time it takes to run a figure 8 pattern with the cutting head, (about 2 seconds).
The width of the part is measured, (again with lasers), and the program selected base on the style and size of the part inserted.
Since the tools are set two dovetails apart, you can drop the top or bottom pin on the fly, if you want, without issue.
It is the fastest way I've seen to cut ultra precise and ultra fast dovetail joints.










https://www.mereen-johnson.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Middle-3.png






*Nested CNC Router*
This is more like the tool most people think of when they say "CNC machine".
It is used primarily to process sheet goods such as plywood and particle board.

Most hobby versions, however have to be manually nested and incorporate tabs, rollers, clamps, or onion skins to work without a vacuum hold-down.
They also often use a conventional router for cutting, though non tool-changing spindles are often used up to about 2hp in this class of machine.
Motion control is typically achieved using stepper motors with cutting speeds on this class of CNC router ranging from 50ipm to 200ipm.










https://www.shopbottools.com/img/product/prsalpha/PRSAlpha.jpg

The industrial grade machines have a vacuum table powered by anywhere from 10hp to 40hp vacuum pumps to keep the workpiece securely in place during cutting.
The cutting is done by a 5hp to 20hp automatic tool-changing spindle capable of high speeds and continuous duty cycles.

A spoil board, typically of MDF sits atop of an aluminum, or phenolic table and the vacuum draws the pressure through the spoilboard to the workpiece.
The router cuts remove a small amount of material from the spoilboard as it cuts, so every so often, the spoilboard needs to be resurfaced, or fly cut, to restore the optimal smooth holding surface.

Like the point to point, there are several varieties of machines that usually incorporate a tool carousel, or tool rack, with multiple tool holders for changing router bits.
There are also options for multi-drill heads, both vertical and horizontal, and aggregate tool heads for things like saw blades, edgebanding heads, or multi-axis wrist attachments.
Motion control is typically achieved using servo motors and position encoders with cutting speeds ranging from 500ipm to over 1200ipm.

Specialized software can automatically nest parts from a CAD design and significantly speeds up the process of program creation.










https://www.biessecdn.com/media/cache/img/1240/3965_n_Rover_K_FT_2.png-1240x980.png






And for now that is the list I can think of right now.
If you know of another type of CNC woodworking machine, or if you have a question or comment about any of the above, please comment below.

Thanks for reading to the end.


----------



## rad457

Don't care what folks say, Ain't Wood working in my books, just human controlled production


----------



## DS

Oops, I think you meant to post on this other thread…
https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/230201



> Don t care what folks say, Ain t Wood working in my books, just human controlled production
> 
> - Andre


----------



## Desert_Woodworker

Amazing- It is because of these machines we have beautiful affordable woodworking products for the masses…


----------



## Desert_Woodworker

Also, add the laser to the family…


----------



## DS

> Also, add the laser to the family…
> 
> - Desert_Woodworker


Oh yeah. The LASER….
Will do.


----------



## LittleBlackDuck

Very interesting and thorough, *DS*...

Whether *Andre* posted in the right spot or not, it's obvious that it is not *traditional* woodworking, but is now an integral part of life and needs to be *pidgeonholed* and not ignored due to either ignorance or arrogance (or both).

I've seen many production line boxes, breadboards and even cabinets here… the only difference between them and CNC is that SWMBO hasn't found the off switch!


----------



## Desert_Woodworker

> Very interesting and thorough, *DS*...
> 
> Whether *Andre* posted in the right spot or not, it s obvious that it is not *traditional* woodworking, but is now an integral part of life…
> 
> - LittleBlackDuck


*Duck-* There are various categories of wood woodworking- traditional? If one uses electricity and modern conveniences in the shop, then is it traditional? Roy Underhill is a good example of traditions but he uses electricity and media…

My favorite wood woodworker is- Richard Louis Proenneke from AK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Proenneke


----------



## SMP

The very first CNC i learned on was a CNC mill in my Machine Tool Operator class in 1989. Back then that was the only thing I was ware of that had a CNC controller, at least in our shop. I made some cool keychains with friends names on them out of aluminum billet to learn with. But i still used the manual mill for milling engine blocks and heads etc.


----------



## sras

Very nice summary DS. Thanks for taking the time to put this together


----------



## ChiloquinRuss

Once my artwork is done I have several CNC choices I can use it for in my little shop. IE Shopbot, laser, vinyl cutter, large format plotter, and lastly my MakerBot 3d printer. All have X,Y and some add Z. LOL Russ


----------



## DS

Presumably, many LJs read this post and thought, Gee, DS, that is great info, but, what could all this possibly have to do with me?

So, I'll tell you.

There are a few bumpy transitions on your way from a small weekend hobby to a small business, to a medium business, to a large business, to a woodworking empire.

It is hard to grow one's ventures if you cannot take advantages of the economies of scale, both in purchasing and in production methods.
So, the solution, at different strategic times, is to outsource.

There are a couple of ways that a small fish can get all the advantages of a big fish in the pond, metaphorically speaking, and I will tell you how you can do that.

I think I can hear many LJ's right now thinking how they would rather do the job themselves than pay someone else a profit to do it for them. I thought the very same thing at first, but, check the math before you give up on it.
(Being in business is about making the moola at the end of the day)

CNC machines are expensive up front, however, if you have the production volume to support it, they can be the most cost effective way to manufacture nearly anything.
This upfront capital and the sustained volume of production are significant barriers to most small businesses.

*HOWEVER*,

Outsourcing companies have *already* spent the capital outlay for the equipment. 
They are *already* making the monthly payments. AND best of all, they are buying material in bulk from wholesale vendors at a far better price point than would be offered to any hobby-turning-small-business startup would be offered.

All of those things means you can get small runs for a lower cost of materials, better repeatable quality and a lower labor contribution than what you would spend to do it in house.

Even after paying a fair profit to the outsource shop, you will very likely come out far further ahead in the deal.
Also consider you did NOT have to get a larger shop, monthly equipment lease payments, bigger electricity bills, etc, etc, etc.

That was the first method - straight up outsourcing.

The next one is similar, but different. I will make a second post momentarily as this one got a little long.


----------



## DS

Method number two; Buying excess capacity.

Do you know those travel programs where, if you can be flexible with the dates, you can get discount airfare and hotels?
This second method works similar to that.

One of the more significant issues for medium to large woodworking companies is managing the production schedule.
They make the best profit margins when the production level is flat from one day to the next at optimum capacity for any given shop setup.
Too much work and they pay overtime, not enough and you are paying the same hourly rate for a slowed down schedule. Or, heaven forbid, you have to tell your guys to take a couple of unpaid days off, only to discover they all put in resumes with their competitor.

One of the tools companies have is to take excess capacity orders.
They will take your contract for x quantity of parts to be completed by a date 30 to 60 days out.

That way, they can run your job instead of having slow days in the shop. They get to optimize the schedule and therefore, they make money at more optimal margins than if they didn't have your parts orders.

These are not technically outsourcing companies, but companies in a similar business as you are, that have excess capacity for sale.

This is hard to find right now since mostly everyone has currently the opposite problem. (Too much work)
But, this is a great option when times are a little slower, or even now, when a company just made a step up in capacity, e.g. a larger shop, or bigger, better, faster equipment.

You will need to do some bird dogging, but, for me, back when real estate took a dive after 2008, I was involuntarily self employed for about 11 months and I found lots of clients (for a one man operation) and lots of excess capacity to hire from. I nearly doubled my previous wages that year.
The main drawback for me is that my boss was a slave driver and I was working insane hours.

So there you have it. All the advantages and benefits of large scale CNC machines for the little guy.

Hopes any of this helps anyone.

My 2 cents


----------



## Desert_Woodworker

> Presumably, many LJs read this post and thought, Gee, DS, that is great info, but, what could all this possibly have to do with me?
> 
> So, I'll tell you.
> 
> There are a few bumpy transitions on your way from a small weekend hobby to a small business, to a medium business, to a large business, to a woodworking empire.
> 
> It is hard to grow one's ventures if you cannot take advantages of the economies of scale, both in purchasing and in production methods.
> So, the solution, at different strategic times, is to outsource.
> 
> There are a couple of ways that a small fish can get all the advantages of a big fish in the pond, metaphorically speaking, and I will tell you how you can do that.
> 
> I think I can hear many LJ's right now thinking how they would rather do the job themselves than pay someone else a profit to do it for them. I thought the very same thing at first, but, check the math before you give up on it.
> (Being in business is about making the moola at the end of the day)
> 
> CNC machines are expensive up front, however, if you have the production volume to support it, they can be the most cost effective way to manufacture nearly anything.
> This upfront capital and the sustained volume of production are significant barriers to most small businesses.
> 
> *HOWEVER*,
> 
> Outsourcing companies have *already* spent the capital outlay for the equipment.
> They are *already* making the monthly payments. AND best of all, they are buying material in bulk from wholesale vendors at a far better price point than would be offered to any hobby-turning-small-business startup would be offered.
> 
> All of those things means you can get small runs for a lower cost of materials, better repeatable quality and a lower labor contribution than what you would spend to do it in house.
> 
> Even after paying a fair profit to the outsource shop, you will very likely come out far further ahead in the deal.
> Also consider you did NOT have to get a larger shop, monthly equipment lease payments, bigger electricity bills, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> That was the first method - straight up outsourcing.
> 
> The next one is similar, but different. I will make a second post momentarily as this one got a little long.
> 
> - DS


*+1* on outsourcing advice. The problem is you need a CAD guy so the Cam guy can see what needs cutting ( the shop time cost)

Do you want your design made?

Put the design into a model CAD design (COST #1) then shop the CAM producer to get the price of your project (Cost #2) ...

*Sarcasm to DS Isn't it nice to do both?*


----------



## DS

Presumably, you have some sort of way to define and describe your product to a manufacturer.
You would probably need this anyway, even to make things in house.
There are several free programs you can use.

While CAD drawings are all well and good, a post-it note and a felt tip marker would do just as well for most purposes.
I've even accepted a photo of a dinner napkin written on with ball point pen before.

Unless you use the same CAD/CAM program as your outsource partner, they will be manually entering your design specs into a CAM program anyway. (Most can import .dxf files also, but the layers usually need to be adjusted for tool paths)

So, no, CAD, while very helpful, is not absolutely necessary for outsourcing components.


----------



## Desert_Woodworker

Either way there will be a cost for the proper CAD drawings… Question did you charge for converting the napkin drawing to an acceptable method to manufacture?

Respectfully, DW


----------



## DS

Not really. It takes all of 20 minutes to do it, and usually, it is a run worth several thousand dollars.
Mostly, we charge a non refundable deposit if full CAD drawings are required, but, parts are usually simple things.

The client designs the project, I just have to get gcode for the parts.
If their design doesn't produce workable parts, that is on the client.

If we design it, draw it etc, that is a different animal and we warrant that it is correct and functional. 
So, yes, we charge for that service.

Usually, with incoming outsource projects, I simply cut from a work order list and don't even generate CAD.
I just have to get to gcode and start cutting.

When we send stuff out for outsourcing, we use shops with our same CADCAM setup and I can send an NC file with the optimized sheets and operations ready to cut.
They just load the file and run it through the post processor for their machine.

It is advantageous for us to use other shops like this as we can level out each other's production schedules and we both make more money this way. 
We send jobs to them for cutting when we are buried and we receive jobs from them for cutting when they are buried.

It works.


----------



## Desert_Woodworker

DS you're the man…


----------

