# A better saw than I thought it would be



## cabmaker (Sep 16, 2010)

Nice write up bones ! I like to see people happy with their acquisitions . Nice looking saw ! JB


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## RUINTUIT (Jan 2, 2009)

Wondering Y the Y for the overhead arm is placed towards the outlet of the cabinet and not towards the intake of the DC. I would think the venturi/ejector effect would be better in the opposite direction to draw a better vacuum on the overhead arm section? Not saying it's wrong, just doesn't look right to me. What do I know, I'm just an old Navy MM that used a lot of air ejectors and loop seals.


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## NormG (Mar 5, 2010)

Congrats on the fine new TS


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## jim1959 (Feb 14, 2010)

Lucky man a great saw for sure.


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

Congrats! You got the Big Daddy of table saws!


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## TheGermanJoiner (Dec 1, 2013)

Beautiful saw. And great review


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## carver1942 (Sep 25, 2013)

Thanks for the great review. Enjoy your new saw.
Ed


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## Jbower500 (Aug 29, 2008)

I have owned this saw for 2 years. Only one small problem which one phone to service fixed. Took me longer to make the call that the time to make the repair. I have found this saw to be of the highest quality and workmanship of any of the cabinet saws being sold today. I would not think twice about buying a second one should the need arise.


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## CincyRW (Nov 18, 2013)

Great review and quite literally a beautiful piece of machinery. Enjoy!


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## marcuscraft (Nov 14, 2012)

Thanks, now I have to explain this boner to my coworkers.

Great and thorough first impressions/review.


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

"Wondering Y the Y for the overhead arm is placed towards the outlet of the cabinet and not towards the intake of the DC. I would think the venturi/ejector effect would be better in the opposite direction to draw a better vacuum on the overhead arm section? Not saying it's wrong, just doesn't look right to me. What do I know, I'm just an old Navy MM that used a lot of air ejectors and loop seals.

-Scott, Irmo SC"

You are right sir on the Y. It is going against the grain. Truly for optimal flow I should spin the saw around but then the real business end of the saw would be cluttered with the dust collection pipe passing my foot path and creating a big trip hazard. Trust me I struggled with that. However, that set up is still better than the other one I found. Due to the very short distance and making multiple cuts, I found the DC pick of the overarm to be very good. Long term I'm looking at upgrading my DC to a much more powerful system with 6" piping and just coming directly from overhead to the connection on the blade guard. I'm thinking next year's toy buy. Maybe a real nice 3hp Laguna with automated dust gates  For now my 20+ year old Kufo Seco 2hp DC.


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## ChuckC (May 13, 2010)

^^ Can the Y just be flipped around so it's pointing in the right direction?


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

Yes, but flipping the y around you get a big bend in the small black hose that creates a bigger drag than the y the way it's pictured. Trust me I tried so many diff setups. To truly fix it the flow should all be going the same direction. With mine running as configured, the DC pick up is really good. I want to go overhead with 6" to reduce drag. But as one might say, I shot my $$ wad on the saw this year so it will be next year before I can tackle it.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

So, the extension table is still enough that when you lift up with the mobile base it lifts up cleanly so you can move it around? Is that what I see in the video?


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## dgage (Apr 8, 2010)

I was thinking the same when I saw the Y (wrong direction) as I was interested in how you changed the stock to get improved performance.

That is a really nice saw and I'd love to have one, and likely will one day. Great review too!


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

"So, the extension table is still enough that when you lift up with the mobile base it lifts up cleanly so you can move it around? Is that what I see in the video?"

Yes, it actually lifts it at an angle with the extension slightly higher than the other end of the table. It takes 3 to 4 pumps on the big foot pedal. It moves that easy. I literally was moving it with my pinky only. Which is impressive when you consider how much this sucker weighs when fully put together. Before we put anything on it, it took 3 of us to just lift it enough to get the base under it and that was 4 lifts and I was doing some serious grunting. I'm dreading the day I have to move and take it up the steps


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

Duplicate post please delete.


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## BuckI (Oct 12, 2009)

Nice saw!


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## Nicky (Mar 13, 2007)

Congratulations on your new saw. Your review was very comprehensive. Nice to see that quality tools are alive and well. Enjoy your new tablesaw!


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## donburkard (May 28, 2012)

Have the same saw from the same man. I have never doubted my decision to buy the saw stop. I have wanted the pm2000 since I was about 15 yrs old but after careful consideration figured my kids and wife would like it if I kept all of my digits so I went with the ss and haven't looked back. Tom and Steve at the downingtown woodcraft are absolutely top notch as well. I am lucky enough to live about 10 min away and am always grateful to have them as a resource close by. Honestly even if they weren't as close they would still be a great resource.


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## Lenny (Sep 28, 2008)

Congratulations on your acquisition of a great tool and thanks for writing a thorough and information-packed review. I have been using a PCS for close to a year now and couldn't be happier. One comment about your statement relative to why anyone would WANT to touch the blade while it spins down. While no one would want to purposely hit/touch the blade while it spins down, I suffered a serious accident on my prior saw when I mistakenly ran my hand into the still spinning blade as I reached for the cutoff piece. So, the premise is, IF one should make contact with the blade as it spins down, the safety mechanism will still protect them. Enjoy the saw and be safe!


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## Ken90712 (Sep 2, 2009)

What a great review and love the time you took to explain all the details in the assy. Not going into the safety portion of this was refreshing as well, being all us woodworkers have read all about it…. I have been in the market for a new 5 Hp saw. I'll be in Seattle this upcoming weekend and plan a visit to Grizzly's Show Room, hard to resist. I have also been looking at the Laguna's Platinum Saw as well. I chatted with the good folks of Saw Stop at the Vegas show about the random miss fire's rumors I have heard. I was relieved that alot of it was just that, rumors.

I have a strong feeling the Saw Stop 5 Hp will be making its way into my shop soon. Thx for all the great info…. Enjoy!!!


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## mbs (May 8, 2010)

It is a great saw. There aren't many upgrades needed either. But, if you rip thin stock the throat plate doesn't have enough rigidity at the back of plate which allows thin stock to get caught on the table top lip.

Infinity solved the problem with a billet throat plate. You can read the review here.


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

"It is a great saw. There aren't many upgrades needed either. But, if you rip thin stock the throat plate doesn't have enough rigidity at the back of plate which allows thin stock to get caught on the table top lip.

Infinity solved the problem with a billet throat plate. You can read the review here.

-Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply."

Thanks for the heads up I'll check them out. Generally when I do thin rips I always use the grippr's


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## UglySteve (Sep 29, 2010)

I have had this exact saw for 3 years. I absolutely love everything about it. In all that time I have built dozens of projects and the blade and fence are still as true as the day they rolled into my shop. It truly is a fine piece of heavy iron and Braun. I find that my favorite 10-40 blade is the tenryu gold medal. My favorite ply/melamine blade is my forest duraline/hi-at blade. The only maintenance it has needed in 3 years is an occasional greasing of the gears and sliding surfaces in the cabinet.


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## karlfife (Dec 8, 2013)

I know this is an old post, but I'm considering this saw. The ICS is in the budget, but I'm also considering the PCS. The ICS seems like an easy choice, but I'm considering the PCS because it seems likely to be:

1. Easier to move into my basement (basement has a ramp, not stairs), and possibly OUT one day to a bigger shop, new home etc.

2. Easier to navigate within the shop, because the the PCS is slightly *shallower*, (e.g. the ICS has a much longer fence, much deeper cabinet, thus more protuberant dust ports on the BACK. Due to this, the PCS *may* be less likely to be in the way if (for example) the saw butts up against a walkway (even after a fold-down outfeed table is installed). Maybe. I'm not confident about this.

Can I ask what made you lean toward the ICS?

Practically speaking, I think the additional 3/4" of infeed support on the ICS is really nice, but the PCS will surely meet my needs, though I suspect at some point I'll wish I had more infeed.

When I saw both saws side-by-side, I was surprised how much I was drawn to the ICS. It just seemed so solid and perfectly designed to its priorities. I'm definitely a firm believer in buying the best tools you can afford. The excellent PCS looked great, but looked a bit like manufacturing engineers had designed cost out of it (making it an excellent balance of cost and performance).

If you feel like describing some of your purchase considerations, as well as how you feel about your decision some 18 months later, I'd really appreciate it.

One thing I wonder about is the fact that these saws are hybrids of old technology and high technology. As such, the addition of high technology may make the tool age more quickly than their peers and predecessors. If this is the tool I'll have for the next 15 years (or less), I might lean toward the PCS because it's *good enough* for now. If I'm wrong, and if it's true that I won't look at another saw for 20 years, the ICS would be an easy choice.


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## UglySteve (Sep 29, 2010)

> I know this is an old post, but I m considering this saw. The ICS is in the budget, but I m also considering the PCS. The reason is that the PCS is likely to be:
> 1. Easier to move into my basement (basement has a ramp, not stairs), and possibly OUT one day to a bigger shop, new home etc.
> 2. Easier to navigate around within the shop, with the PCS being slightly *shallower*, (e.g. with the longer fence, deeper cabinet, thus more protuberant DC ports). The PCS *may* be less likely to be in the way if the saw butts up against a walkway (even after a fold-down outfeed table is installed)... maybe.
> 
> ...


PCS is a fine saw. I chose the ICS for the beefier trunion, heavier, more sturdy table, larger area cast iron, and for the 5hp motor which you cannot get on the PCS. There were more reasons, but I can't remember them all. I've had mine for nearly 5 years now and have absolutely no complaints. I fired the cartridge once by sawing into my aluminum mitre gauge, but the tenryu blade survived, only needing a re-sharpening.

Bottom line, the PCS is good enough, but since when do guys like us settle for good enough if we can get the best?


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## karlfife (Dec 8, 2013)

>>since when do guys like us settle for good enough 
Well put.

I don't think I'd need 5HP. If I understand the physics of synchronous *induction* motors correctly, the 5HP is necessary if (and only if) you're doing enough heavy cutting that the 3HP motor would become overworked (e.g. too hot, overload protection kicks in, you might trip a breaker etc). In other words, the 3HP motor can handle anything you can feed into it, but not for extended periods of time (without overheating), and possibly not at exceptionally high feed rates of exceptionally hard woods (without tripping a breaker). Does that square with your knowledge?


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

> I know this is an old post, but I m considering this saw. The ICS is in the budget, but I m also considering the PCS. The ICS seems like an easy choice, but I m considering the PCS because it seems likely to be:
> 
> 1. Easier to move into my basement (basement has a ramp, not stairs), and possibly OUT one day to a bigger shop, new home etc.
> 
> ...


No problem at all. I'm using it all the time more now than I ever thought. I absolutely still love it and don't regret it one bit. First let me state that the PCS will cut anything you want and is a fine saw. I will say that if you do decide on the PCS do swing for the overarm guard and the industrial base it is so woth it. I can move my ICS around with my pinky and I even think I posted a vid of me doing just that.

My main consideration for the ICS was I wanted to move up to the 5hp. If I could have (and I called and asked) got the 5hp in the PCS I would have done it. I make beds with 12 & 16/4" stock and had been using the griz 3hp 1023 to do it and wanted to step up.

Now that I've had it for this period, I'm so glad I sprung the extra to go up to the ICS. The amount of surface area extra on the top is really nice. I still go into my local woodcraft and look at the PCS and its a great saw, but the ICS is a big step up in my opinion. I like the industrial interlocks so that when i'm in that cabinet no way its coming on. Now you could say thats no big deal and probably not, but I work in manufacturing and its a nice touch.

I'm in a basement and had it delivered to have them take it down the stairs. Truth be told a good appliance dolly and a couple buddys could get it done.

I love the power and I know I've got that insurance policy of the safety device. I'm not looking foward to moving it in two years when i retire and move back to Virginai (Smith Mountain Lake). But will look forward to spending more time doing wood working.

Hope this helps and if you have any more questions let me know. BTW, the grngate DC is worth it too! Take care and good luck on the decision. You will love the PCS but If you can swing it the ICS is a step up and if you already spending that kind of money why not! Take care.


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## karlfife (Dec 8, 2013)

>>Truth be told a good appliance dolly and a couple buddys could get it done.

This is helpful. The ICS now seems logistically more feasible. Everything up to now suggests forklift, gantry crane, chain hoist, space shuttle etc.

Thanks for the GrnGate tip. The GrnGate design is pretty brilliant with its inductive power detection, and the single-wire interconnect. Ultimately I decided against the GrnGate (for ME) because it is so bulky (not to mention ugly-I would prefer it be gray and "disappear" instead of "screaming" like brightly colored sports equipment). My REAL beef with the design is the DELAY between opening the gate and the startup of the dust collection. Currently the gate opens fully, THEN there is a delay, THEN the DC starts. If that were my product, I would have designed it so that the DC starts up just before gate is fully open. That way, the gate finishes opening just as suction is developing (no waiting). Currently, the user has to wait a few seconds before cutting if they want to dust collection. I talked to GrnGate, and he said there is not a setting to reduce this delay. That conversation was a few years ago-things may have changed.

Back to table saws: With regard to your choice for 5HP, what specifically did you experience on your 3HP Grizzly table saw that made you decide to buy the 5HP? Were you able to slow or stall the 3HP motor? Would the motor overheat when powering through all of your cuts for a project? Were you able to pop a circuit breaker on your 3HP?

Were you simply making the reasonable decision to not to be always pushing your motor to its power limits?

Another thought: 
I know that there can be a lot of 'baloney' in the way motors are rated. Do you think there is a difference between Grizzly's interpretation of 3HP and Sawstop's?


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

> >>Truth be told a good appliance dolly and a couple buddys could get it done.
> 
> This is helpful. The ICS now seems logistically more feasible. Everything up to now suggests forklift, gantry crane, chain hoist, space shuttle etc.
> 
> ...


As to the grngate, you don't want it to open prior to door opening because depending on your DC, that could be bad for both the DC and the ducting. My grngates open and starts quick that I don't notice any real delays. I liked that it used off-the-shelf cat5 ethernet cabling and servicing was easy.

Now on to your questions as to the why on the 5hp. I had the 3hp griz for a long time. It handled most things without issue. When I started cutting the larger thickness, it would start to have issues. I never tripped a breaker on the saw or in the breaker box. I ran it on a 20A 12 awg plug and it was not a problem. When I started making beds, the 12/4 and 16/4 started causing problems. I work mostly in cherry and to make the cuts I'd have to slow it down and then I'd have burning. I made it work, but not the best.

When the SS first came out, I wanted it. I wanted that safety feature. Knowing it had a big $$ price tag, I'd have to save for a long time and I did just that. I put a little back every payday (with the wife knowing) and I got to keep some of my bonus i get every year. I also kept most of the profits from any pieces to apply.

When I started saving I wanted the PCS and thought that would be fine. As I saved (this was a multi year effort) I realized if this was to be my last and forever saw, the jump to the better saw was worth it. The bigger saw surface, the extra hp, more cast iron, and other features I've mentioned all just made sense.

I spent a year hoping one would show up on EBAY but it just never happened and the ones that did were so close to retail.

Is it a huge investment, yes. If you plan like I do for it to be the last saw you buy, don't settle. Get what you want. I've never ever had someone say, "dang that saw has too much power". The extra cost averaged of the life of the saw is nothing really.

Looking back now, I'd do it all over again. Thats just me

The griz was an ok saw did me well for 10 year. Ain't in the same leage as SS. BTW I still have some griz. I have the 17" HD BS and 12" jointer. So I'm not anti-griz by any means.

Good luck and let us know what you decide! We all like new toys!


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