# Another Hideous, Provocative, Non-Woodworking Discussion



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

When I was a lad of 15, I pilfered the 5 HP engine off the snowblower, bartered some slot-cars for a brand new Comet clutch, and hacked up my sister's baloon-tire bicycle to make my own mini-bike. This was about 1968. I was lucky to find someone willing to machine a jack-shaft, because I didn't know that a Briggs motor turns counter-clockwise and therefore that much more difficult to adapt to the bike frame.
*NOW… for this summer*, I want to build one of those electric bicycles! Yes, I know it's a non-woodworking subject, but have you seen those new electric hubs that replace the hubs your bike has now? It is an internal electric motor, and you feed power to it via a control box connected to some slim rechargeable batteries. At a glance, these upfitted bikes look like those touring models, only the rider isn't pedaling! I'd always pondered finding a suitable electric 12VDC motor, and placing a couple of deep-cycle batteries in those metal saddles like the kind paperboys used to use. But now I see these lithium batteries, with some sort of 500-Watt controller operated by hand, driving an almost invisible motor inside the wheel hub. Here's a link to a site, I am in no way endorsing anything, it just happened to be a link of interest to this discussion: http://www.bicycle-power.com/diykits.html Or, view this clip from youTube: 



again, not an endorsement, but just a peek of what's out there. There is also dozens of youTube videos of electric conversions for 4-wheel vehicles too, most commonly Ford Ranger trucks with stick shift transmissions. Even an old VW convertible which runs on total recharges from solar collectors on the roof of the owner's house! Any Lumberjocks thinking about the possibilities of electric alternatives for transportation?


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

I wouldnt even know where to start but im more than willing to watch .. good post PK.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Poopie, we are close to the same age. I was graduating from highscool in 1968.
I did something similar when I was 15-16, but it was a go-kart. Terrorized the neighborhood.
I like to bike too.
The one in my avatar is made from bamboo.
There is a company that makes a long skinny tubular motor that fits inside the seat tube and drives the crank shaft directly via a bevel gear. That is completely stealth power. No body would even know you had electric assist.
It only powers up when you pedal and provides about 75% boost to the power you put in.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*@ cr1*: Exactly! Here's a great video for an electric conversion to a Ford Ranger:






or 




Check it out!!


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*crank49*: Wow, bevel gears inside the crank housing? I understand stealth, undeniably the municipalities would love to slap a surtax of some sort on electric-assisted bikes, and keeping the fact hidden makes sense. When I observe the E-bikes whizzing through traffic, I almost WISH they would do a bit of pedaling, lest they give themselves away. Yeah, the thrill of terrorizing a neighborhood doesn't really go away, it gives way to doing constructive, alternative lifestyle things in our adult years.


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## derosa (Aug 21, 2010)

You mention the municipalities, in most areas electric powered bikes require a license just like a moped. Electric assist bikes are a different story entirely, the definitions usually revolves around if the bike can start from 0 under its own power. If you are really interested in one of the hubs let me know, I may be able to pick one up for you for next to nothing on tues or wed. 
I have one myself in the closet for some sort of winter frankenbike project; I'm thinking a winter ice racer that can do a flat out 25mph with studded snows for traction. 
The first bike shop I worked in built a few of these and they will cruise. The one that always stands out in my head was a shop fun project of a stretched harley davidson low rider cruiser with springer fork. We cut the spring in the fork and bent it, upgraded some of the wiring and decked it out. The result was a bike that left you relaxed and leaning back with your legs stretched out and your but about 15" off the ground while cruising at a max of 22mph. The wheel base was almost the length of a tandem and the brakes sucked which made the whole thing a lot of fun. Only thing that ever topped it was the racing bar stool.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Remember that teh test ride begins with a good "Ya'll watch this"

Actually sounds like a blast I didn't do motorized but we lived on a nice steep hill, so there were a number of gravity powered excursions that ended in sutures at the ER. ;-)


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

5HP!!!!!!
Grief! I would have loved that. My brother and I took a welder and an old weed eater motor and attached it to the foot powered sprocket side of the chain. You had to push start it to keep from stalling and flooding the "little motor that could" but it was better than nothing and all our father would let us venture into. 
We were a wild pair. Father was on a long fishing weekend once and when he returned we were in full swing on a quite extensive project for us. We were putting back together an old Chevy 305 that we had plans of adapting to a go-cart. That idea got nixed before we could even explain to him though our full intentions.


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

ABSOLUTLEY!! No reason at all that Electric Powered Vehicles should not have been on our roads a couple of years ago. I saw that Ford F150 about a year ago. Also the Maintenance as compared to one of our "Modern Cars" is next to nothing. If you're half way talented you can do it yourself. NO Problem at all!

I bought a Caddy CTS Sport Model in March of this year. SCREAM!!! "I" don't drive the car without it helping me out! SUPPOSEDLY!! Pain In The Gluteus Maximus! I can do NOTHING in the way of Mechanical Maintenance to it. I can't even check the Power Steering Fluid. Why? It's UNDER what they call the Motor View Cover. Can't take that off unless you take off the "Cross Tower Strut Brace". NOT very likely!! That's just plain Old STUPID Design!!

ALSO: I saw on Sympatico yesterday a New Car being made in India. Powered by it's own COMPRESSED AIR MOTOR, Very Basic Motor, Minimum of Moving Parts, ONE tank of Compressed air will take you 300 Km's. Run out of air? Pull into the Gas Station, 4/5 Minutes later your on your way again, or do it at home but that would take 2/3 Hours to fill. (REALLY? That Long?) It's not a "Drag Racer" BUT! 60 MPH is fine by me!! POLUTION? Perfectly Clean Hot Air Puffing out the Tailpipe.

Perhaps .."Necessity Really Is The Mother Of Invention."

poopiekat: Sorry that I stepped all over your bicycle thing. Perhaps it's in the same vain. Your Signature Line wraps it up quite Nicely.

Thanks for Posting.

Rick


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

I done mechanic work for years. I know a little (ok, you got me, I know a lot) about cars, and what works and what doesn't work. As much as I hate to say it (I love my 400+ HP 350 I have now), electric cars are (or should be) the future of the automotive industry. However, we aren't there just yet. All the electrics I have seen thus far have some flaw or another that is just a death nail to them being profitable without government subsidies. 
Some lack power for basic commutes at a reasonable speed. Some lack distance and will leave the average person stranded with no choice but to wait hours to recharge since there is no system in place for rapid battery exchange or rapid charge stations. Then there are some that are excellent but just are priced out of the price range that the average American family could fathom ever affording. 
I think the one biggest thing that it will take to bring a reasonably priced electric car to market with profitable features is for the government to stop subsidizing that line of the industry. Without the government in the picture, the industry would have to be more competitivie and give the customers what they want without depending on the government for profit. I honestly believe that a majority of Americans are ready for and would buy an electric car. It has to be one though that they want. When the industry has to listen to what they want, we may get somewhere with it. The technology is there. They just need the incentive to work with it instead of just putting something out there.
There is the other problem and lead into the topic that Rick brought up about maintenance. Car makers for years now have created mechanical night mares for people. I believe that a vast majority of people still want something that Henry Ford once gave them, cars that a person reasonable intelligence could do his own maintenance on. Hell, even if a person couldn't do it themselves, they don't want to be gouged by the dealership everytime something goes wrong. And things do go wrong. It's nothing against the car makers, it's just life. Before I had to get out of the mechanical industry, there had started to be times when I'd see certain vehicles that I had to turn away from my shop and suggest they take it to a dealership. There were cars on the road that I actually could work on, but I couldn't accept the time loss it took, or the potential liability of something breaking, while I removed cheap, unneccessary covers and such, just to just to do the most basic tasks that should have been easy and cheap fixes. As an example, it should not cost the customer four to five hundred dollars for plugs and wires simply because it takes the mechanic so long to do it, with most of the time going to removing and replacing parts that have nothing to do with the plugs or wires. It is crazy and there is no sense in it. The manufactorers do it with the full intention of trying to force customers to bring their cars back to the dealership. They have forgotten about the average person that cannot afford dealerships after their car is out from under the warrenty period.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*Rick:* Your CTS should send you an emaiil if the Power steering fluid is low. Heck ours emails us when the tire pressure is getting low! The problem with a compressed-air motor in India is that the electrical energy to operate the compressors, and heaven knows what dirty power plant over there supplied the power. * William:* I've been driving for 40 years, and whenever I hear about people complaining about maintenance I gotta say, the cars built in the 50's, 60's and 70's needed new exhaust systems every two years, water pumps every 5 years, batteries and alternators every three years, fuel pumps, water hoses, points and plugs, valve and brake adjustments annually, and don't forget tires, which would last about 20,000 miles. I never complain about new cars, which have a habit of staying out of the shop for years at a time. When was the last time you bought a muffler? Heck, my '87 Ranger needed almost nothing until it hit 247,000 miles, my 2000 Ranger has only needed ball joints and rear brakes after 100,000. They aren't exactly high-end machines either. Stay out of the dealership when you need service, find a competent independent garage. 
Anyway, I'll be shopping in the late spring for battery conversion components after I've done the research for the right parts to upfit a bike to electric cruising, even if all I can do with it is short hops to 7-11 or HD. There has got to be some technological breakthroughs in the industry in the near future.


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

You just made one helluva good point poopiekat. I never thought about that from the car owner's point of view. I was speaking from a mechanic's view. From an owner's perspective though, I can see where the trade off may be well worth it.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks. *William!* I'm approaching my second childhood myself, and have been casting a glance or two at a few vintage cars, a 70 'Cuda 340, '67 mustang 390, and a '58 Impala… but ya know what? I'd be just as happy with a 2012 Mustang GT fastback, with all the comforts, reliability, and safety features, A/C and big stereo, etc, for about the same money. Maybe even a new Challenger with hemi. Looked at a Raptor too the other day, beckoning to me allso! Why not? Finally new cars can be kool again. And they won't need fan belts or starter solenoids once a year.


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

*poopiekat: NO! NO! NO! Not New!! ;-}*

That 70 Cuda 340 you mentioned is *HOT!! *This one ain't to Shabby either! *71 Hemi Cuda, 440, 6 Pack, Shaker!*

Guys asking $150,000 for it. Personally I like "Plum Crazy" or "Hot Yellow".



















RE: Caddy e-mails. YES! I know! Freakin' thing never stops telling me one of the Tires is low., or "Possibble Ice" etc. etc. etc. Problem with the Low Power Steering Fluid is it would take you 2/3 hours to get at it, just to top it up!


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## racerglen (Oct 15, 2010)

1969 Pontiac Beaumont.
SD-396 car orriginaly.
Propane fueled 496 now, street driven, tows a travel trailer to the track and has gone a best of 12:06 in the quarter mile.










And I've owned it since July 1970.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Rick… I owned a '70 Cuda 340 ragtop in 1973/74. It was pure crap! Purchased from a lady in her '50s who bought it new, the cheezy vinyl seats were all split, it was on its 3rd exhaust system, the door hinges were all sprung and worn out, dual point distributor would not stay in dwell, wiper motor would suddenly quit working, and the alternator ate the wiring harness, yup it wrapped every wire it could reach around the pulley. Heater control unit fell out from inside the dash! Plus the lower quarters and door skins were rotting badly… on a car just 4 years old!! She sure could scoot, however! And it was In-violet. I can't really seriously get close to another one after all this time, because it was one of the worst cars I've ever owned. I just roll my eyes when I see what they bring now. I sold mine, 4 years old, for $900 and this money pit went through a succession of new unhappy owners for 6 or 7 years til I lost track of it. ps: that's what 'Speedy Lube" and similar places are for, who the heck does their own L.O.F. these daze?


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

AH SHOOT!! I was gonna buy that Beast for you and have it trailered down. Another *"Good Will Hunting …OOPS …Gesture"* down the drain.

OH! WAIT! I Know! For a Refined Gentleman such as yourself …..*BENTLEY!! *


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

Hey Glen!

Just had to get a closer look at that HOT Machine of yours! Fiddled around with it. Result is below. Hope you don't mind.

I'm in Ontario and was on the hunt for a Street Rod. You guys have all the COOL STUFF out there, Ontario has ZIP in comparison. I have a Cousin in Kelowna who does Custoum Furniture. He's a Bike Nut!! ...LOL…

My pleasure to add you to My Buddies if that's okay with you?










Regards: Rick


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## racerglen (Oct 15, 2010)

Thats interesting..
The buddy's just fine, now if I can find the right button to do the same….

;-)


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Ut oh .. i see there's a few Mopar guys still kickin around. My father inlaw has a 71 Cuda 440, six pack in that wonderful Plum Crazy. 5 years of dating his daughter and 2 years of marraige and i still havent gotten the nod to take it for a spin. For you other drag guys out there ive gotta gloat a little here. My brother inlaw is the lead mechanic on a 68 camaro which just won nationals in the nitrous, fuel injected, automatic tranny division. The final time was a 6.22 after shutting it down with 1000 feet left.

Here's the infamous car:


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

chrisstef: I remember in junior high, Hot Rod magazine had an article on how fuelie dragsters had just broken the seven-second barrier for the quarter mile… I am staggered by what they're doing today…Amazing! oh, and I'd suggest getting Power of Attorney over your in-laws….just in case, y'know…


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

lol thanks PK. Ive got to admit i dont know much about cars but did grow up in a family of car guys so the interest has always been there .. somethin i just never got the hang of.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Ok everybody…Any further thoughts on electric bikes? Electric vehicle conversions in general? Are we done talking about them? Because the subject fascinates me.


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

Good for you poopiekat!! That's what I call "Managing Your Posting".

It's a shame more people don't do it that way instead of just ignoring it when they figure all is said and done.

I'm done. Thank You for asking and a great Posting. Which reminds me of something you said somewhere else.

(Not Exact) "Wouldn't hurt for someone to say "Thank You" after you've answered their questions on THEIR Post"

I TOTALLY AGREE with that statement! Last one I did took an hour to gather the info and Post a Reply, along with Pictures. One week later? NO Reply! Sent him a Polite PM asking if he was watching his Post. Got a NASTY PM in reply. "I'll do whatever I want do blah blah….... You $*&^&*!!

Oh well. Next time I'll think twice about doing it, and that's a Shame!!

Regards: Rick


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, Rick for keeping an eye on things, I thought I was the only one annoyed by bad 'netiquette' and was glad to see a lot of agreement on that other thread. We can almost expect it when answering someone's first post after signing up, but jeez, sometimes from people who have been around for a while? I don't minding sheperding people back on topic when the conversation has drifted, I mostly, personally, would like to chat a bit more with LJs who got something to say about electric conversions to bike and car. Or has the subject been beaten to death already?


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## racerglen (Oct 15, 2010)

I've seen some very interesting conversions P.K. my tech guy is sold on them and if he had the money he'd be right in there..
Most of the ones I've been "treated to" by video and such he passed on are 4 wheeled, and some are scarey fast, now they seem to be getting better range out of them as well.


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

I think that acceptable ranges are doable in electric cars now. I honestly don't see how they could possibly get much more out of them and still keep power and speed up to levels that the average will be willing to live with. In my opinion, where the need lies now is the ability to either recharge much faster, or options for changin power cells out easily. 
In the future, how far in the future is yet to be seen, I don't think te recharging route will be where its at. Unless battery designed are completely rethought, faster charge rates also means faster draining of the battery, which completely defeats the purpose. Therefore, I think the answer is exchangeable cells. I can see, one day, pulling into "recharging stations", like we do gas stations now, changing cells, and taking off again, in about the same amount of time it takes to fill up with gas now. Of course there will be a charge, because for this idea to work, the station attendants have to then recharge the cells you dropped off when you took on the fully charged ones.


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## racerglen (Oct 15, 2010)

William you're raising some good points, and another's the weight penalty of the battery systems although
they do seem to be getting that down as well.
(and P.K. I wasn't trying to hi jack your thread earlier, just expanding to alternate fuels ;-)


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