# Change in scenery (Career)



## 00banksy (Jan 6, 2014)

So I did what everyone told my generation to do and went to college after completing a tour in the service. Five years and two degree's in architecture later and I work a desk job. I really do not enjoy it and am hoping to make a drastic change before I have the bills that would make a change like this impossible. I have been out of college for 2 years and have tried several different firms with the same results. The idea of working with my hands is exciting and the brief time I spent working construction before I started school was enjoyable. I have always been great with my hands and picked things up with relative ease.

I was hoping to get suggestions from the vast experience on this site on possible ways to break into furniture making. Would my best course of action be to take a few classes so that I am not seen as a useless apprentice. If so, what classes? I do have bills so I could not afford to work for free for the experience. Any thoughts from those that have made a similar change or simply know the business from experience would be greatly appreciated.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

Have thought about getting a general contractors license? Home repairs, & renovations probably where you will see a steady income. Requirements vary from state to state.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

Why not look for a more hands on job in Architecture? I'm an engineer, but I spend a good amount of time in coveralls getting dirty. Benefits of both worlds, IMO.


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## msmith1199 (Oct 24, 2012)

That's a tough question. You have to do what makes you happy, but to give up Architecture to make furniture is a huge change and could be a huge drop in money. I can tell you I spent almost three decades in law enforcement and retired a couple of years ago. I always wanted my own business to I opened a woodshop. It's fun and I enjoy it, but if I had to rely on woodworking to make a living I'd be starving to death right now. During my adventure in opening this business I've run into a lot of guys who formerly had custom woodworking businesses where they made custom cabinets and furniture but now they are working the counter at Woodcraft or Rockler because the custom furniture market dried up with the economy.

Part of the problem is people have changed too in what they will pay for. They want to compare your prices for what they can pay for something at Costco. A lady wanted me to build her a table like one at Costco, but the one Costco had was a few inches too big for the space she wanted to put it. So she asked if I could build her one a little shorter and she thought it should be cheaper than Costco's price since it was going to be smaller than the one Costco had. I had to explain to her I couldn't even buy the wood for the price of the table in Costco, but she wouldn't understand. There are still people out there who realize the value in custom made furniture and cabinets, but they are few and far between.

Also, you mention taking classes to learn to make furniture, so I'm guessing you are a novice at it. I have been woodworking as a hobby off and on for about 40 years making mostly small things. I thought I had some pretty good skills and knowledge of woodworking, but when I started doing it as professional and selling my work, I found out how really little I did know and how really complex becoming a master woodworker can be. Look at some of the photos of the amazing work on this website and I'll tell you that many of the people making those items are artists who spent years developing those skills to be able to do that kind of work.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Making a living building furniture is a real tricky thing.

I suggest looking at your local woods and market. I know
this seems weird. I live in Los Angeles and have to buy
all my wood from hardwood dealers. Some people live
in forested country and they can harvest their own to
build slab furniture or things that involve green woodworking
techniques.

Classes are good… I have only taken 2 woodworking classes
in my life, a semester in junior high and a semester on 
guitar making at a community college. Everything else
I learned through reading and experimentation, not to
mention investing in tools and materials required to
achieve more marketable work.

It is possible, even common, for people interested in
furniture making for a living to get stuck in the pedagogical
stage, focusing on square casework, dovetail joinery
and uncomplex furniture styles. If you want to produce
proprietary work, you'll need to push through that stage.

I looked at or read every book in my local library on 
woodworking. I read dozens more books I bought 
and hundreds of articles in back issues of Fine Woodworking.

If you're able to uproot yourself and live out of a truck, 
you may find an opportunity to apprentice as a timber 
framer.

There are no shortcuts I am aware of to becoming expert
enough in furniture making that you can make a decent
living at it. One thing I am sure of is that the temptation
to do casework jobs is great and the money is not bad,
but running a cabinet shop and being a furniture maker
are not the same career.

Become aware of how to make the finishes customers
want. Many builders focus too much on the wood, 
while customers are really fixated on finishes a lot of
the time, though they will not tell you so and don't 
often know it themselves.

With your education, I do not think you'll like working your 
way up in a cabinet making business as an employee 
very much, and you won't get trained in making furniture 
in most of them.

If working for a firm is your goal I recommend studying
CNC programming and design systems like Cabinetvision.

If you want to do furniture and fine work, pursue excellence
with vigor and do not stop until rich people express
eagerness to buy your work. Finishing skills and veneering
skills are skills you'll need to compete. The guys who
gave up their cabinet businesses to work at a hardware
store are not the guys who have the real high end skill 
sets that are in demand from the affluent and 
discerning clientele.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

As the old saying goes, "Don't quit your day job."  If you don't like working a desk job, someone with your education should be able to land a job in construction supervision. That might be a good interim move while you hone your furniture-making skills. You might discover you like it, and the pay can be outstanding.

As for furniture, I think it is really difficult to jump right into it full time. There is a somewhat limited market out there for custom furniture. In order to pay yourself a living wage, you have to place a healthy price tag on your work. That means you must find customers who are willing to pay for hand-made quality, and you need to establish some sort of reputation.

My recommendation would be to start making pieces in your spare time. By all means, take some classes if any are available in your area. What classes to take depends on your current level of skill and knowledge. Look for friends who are need of something and offer to make it for them for the cost of materials, just for the practice. If you do good work more people will start asking you to make pieces for them, and you can begin working the cost of your labor into your pricing. If you really start to see a demand for your services, then you can think about making a full-time go of it.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

With your education I would think a design/build structure for cabinetry and built-ins might allow a bridge to furniture building.

While maybe not as fulfilling it could get you to where you want to be.

I am sure you have great problem solving skills which the buyer would appreciate immensely.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

Before do anything advise visiting art& craft, furniture trade shows, or home and garden shows look for trends. Talk with vendors you meet. Where would you fit in?

What kind of furniture do you want to make?
Period reproductions
Original design or Whimsical
Custom cabinets

Where would you sell whatever you make? Are you better off in the wholesale or retail market?

If could take an evening adult carpentry class might help you figure out what tools and equipment will need to start a part time business or hobby.

General contractors often work as sub contractors for different building, repair, or renovation projects.


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## mrg (Mar 10, 2010)

Have you thought about looking into going to work for an architectural woodworking shop. You have the design background and can also get involved with prototyping and such.


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## HowardInToronto (Sep 27, 2013)

Loren covered a lot of best and most practical items.

You might not like your job and the romance of being a self-employed craftsman might be calling you, but there are some practicalities.

First learn as much as you can.

Get as much hand-on skill as you can.

Study design. You can always acquire the technical skills.

Start small. Make different projects. Sell them for materials only. Learn how to cultivate relationships with people that may become repeat clients who'll also introduce you to their friends and family.

Take some business fundamentals courses.

Learn the basics of marketing. Learn how to sell. Crafting beautiful objects is the smallest part of the equation. Learn how to predictably find people with the money and interest to listen to your message. That''s the more important part.

Don't even THINK of trying to compete with CostCo/WalMart/IKEA. That's a quick race to the bottom. Read what Mark said again.

You have a great opportunity staring right at you. But first, make peace with the job you don't like - it's keeping body and soul together. Use your wages to learn the fundamentals of business.

I didn't say "settle" re the job. I didn't say "roll over and die." I didn't say "give up on your dreams." I didn't say "you should be happy to have a job because there are other people without meaningful work."

I merely said use the job as a springboard to work steadily towards your dreams.

You can walk across a continent by putting one foot in front of the other.

Howard


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## 00banksy (Jan 6, 2014)

I really appreciate all the suggestions, information, and guidance. I think I will follow the suggestions of building for cost and attempt to find my way into a few projects in my free time, build a bit of a portfolio, test my abilities and eventually create a website of projects I can produce. See if I can get a few orders for some extra dollars in my pocket while I work on building the portfolio, tool collection, and my own experience. Baby steps will allow me to get a taste without over extending.

Next question. Tools that you feel are a must. There is always tools on craigslist. I'd love a hollow chisel mortiser but thats simply because joinery is beautiful to me!


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I'd hold off on the specialized machines. You can do
a lot with a band saw, router, electric drill and a few 
planes and some chisels. The machines save time
when you're in it for money or to crank out a lot 
of work.

Read James Krenov's books. You'll see how machinery
choices (he used smallish machines and not a lot of them)
relate to the use of hand tools to make really nice work.
The books are philosophical too.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/25043
http://www.logancabinetshoppe.com/index.php





A belated welcome to Lumber Jocks 00banksy!

A lot of great info above; enjoy some links and the fine journey
you're embarking upon.

Make your own tools as much as possible, you'll have fun 
and learn a lot.


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

Go slow with the new equipment and tools. Figure our what you're going to make and start simple. Get the basic tools needed to produce that work and master their use before you get carried away with "labor saving" devices.

Until you know the fundamentals of woodworking inside and out, you'll lack the knowledge needed to make informed choices about tool purchases. Spending a lot of money up front usually results in wasting money on items that see little usage.

Once you're up and running you'll soon learn what tools are most urgently needed to increase work efficiency.

For basics, I recommend a 14" bandsaw, a good set of chisels and a cheap sharpening system (such as float glass and sandpaper) and a hand drill or small drill press. Add some pencils, an exacto knife, a good square and a marking gauge and you've got everything needed to produce a wide variety of quality work.


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

Do not exchange what you make a living with with what you love; or what you love becomes what you make living with. 
Author: Just came to my head
mahdee


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Oh the business of making and marketing interesting
things can be interesting… once you know how to
build stuff, then there are other mountains to climb…
mastering finishing, client relations, running a shop
with employees, showroom management… It's all
good, but being able to make nice tables and cabinets
and things like that is the beginning, even though 
well-rounded skills to do the wood processing part of
it do take years to acquire professional competence 
in generally.

Building custom things for a living is, despite the
steep and multiple learning curves and long hours
on your feet, pretty interesting work for many 
creative people. Once you get good enough and
established enough to hire 3 helpers, you'll probably
spend all your time designing, drawing, managing
jobs and dealing with the business side of it. Some
people would prefer to work alone but depending
on your specialty the financial sacrifices you'd make
to stay hands-on in the woodshop can be significant.
The happy side of it is that when you start getting
tired, you can have people you've trained execute
your designs and they'll be thrilled to be doing the
work and have the job. It can be pretty cool if 
you're ambitious and up to playing the long game 
in a woodworking career.


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## wbrisett (Dec 21, 2011)

So, I'll echo what others have written here. I ran a small custom bed business out of my shop for about a year. While I loved doing it, at the end of the day if it wasn't for my wife working, we would have starved. Part of the problem is very few people appreciate your time and how long it takes to build stuff. I figured out one time that by the time I built one of the beds, I earned about $5 an hour.  ... I could work at the local burger joint and get $10 an hour.

Eventually, I decided not to pursue additional business and quietly stopped making beds for people. I just couldn't compete with the big box stores and IKEA. Yes, my stuff was built to last and theirs wasn't, but people really don't take that into account. Now, I'm back doing the corporate gig in my degree field and making 1000% more than I did in my shop. Now my shop is my haven for relaxation and building things I want to build. This Christmas I made 100% of the presents we gave to people. Unique pieces that you can't find in stores. I built a clock based on a Shaker design for my mom, and last week I was at her house replacing some baseboards (with some custom boards I made), and she told me that everybody who has come over has commented how beautiful it is and wanted to know where she got it. Of course trying to make those and sell them would be fruitless because I couldn't make them at a price that would work. Mostly because wood has gotten so expensive these days. I've tried cutting out the middle-man and going directly to local sawyers for a lot of my wood. This helps, but it also means that I have a lot of work to do before wood is ready to use. If I add that cost into my projects (the additional time), then I'm probably no better off than buying it at our local fine lumber places.

As far as wanting a hollow mortise machine. I have one, I guess it depends on what you want to do, but I found that it collects dust more than it gets used. I had to dust it off for some Christmas presents this year, and found I spent close to an hour cleaning it up and lubricating it because I hadn't used it in nearly 4 years. I think I would have been better off with a horizontal router table. Would have been able to do everything, and use it on projects like raised panel doors, whereas my mortise machine only does one thing (but does do that very well).

The choice is obviously yours, but I think more people are willing to pay for general contracting services than fine furniture, so as somebody else mentioned, look into that area. Heck, just showing up on time will earn you points from most homeowners.


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## reedwood (Jan 27, 2011)

You know what's funny? 
I always wanted to be you, an architect.

I took night classes at the local college while working as a trim carpenter/ cabinet maker, eventually having my own remodeling company and building "furniture" like: fireplace mantels, bookcases, wine rooms, designer closets and pantries and giant entertainment centers. Ball busting hard work but, damn it was fun!

I also had a master carpenter teaching me this stuff at the age of 14. my path was set pretty early.

I built furniture for myself in my 3 car garage shop but hardly ever for a client. Lots of furniture repairs, but no furniture. I couldn't compete. A teak Adirondack chair costs the same as the materials alone for me to build.

but a furniture store can't do built ins or custom home theaters. that was my niche…..my ace in the hole.

but all of that is gone and it's going to take a while for it to come back.

Anyway, point is, as the ol' saying goes: The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

As a 57 year old, beat up, painfully arthritic, crusty, dusty, scarred up, over opinionated "furniture maker"....

you ain't missing a thing. Sure is a great hobby though.


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## tncraftsman (Oct 21, 2009)

Remember that the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

Each job/career has it's pros and cons. Your current gig has you sitting at a desk. Is there a career track where you can utilize your education which puts you in working out in the field? This position won't be found instantly, Network, network, network to find this position.

Can you offer your design services to a woodworker currently in business?

Can you find a furniture maker who you can work for after hours and on weekend? You may have to pay to be an apprentice.

A few observations based on your comments:

"I spent working construction before I started school was enjoyable" - Then go back to construction, sounds like a desk job doesn't fit your interest or passions. What made you decide to get degrees in architecture? Was it the money or "professional" status?

"Would my best course of action be to take a few classes so that I am not seen as a useless apprentice. If so, what classes? I do have bills so I could not afford to work for free for the experience."

You sound impatient and that you need income to pay the bills. If you need income then you will not find it in this trade. As a businessman perhaps, but being a business man means you are (mostly) back behind the desk.

If working the trade is more of an interest then I suggest looking to work for someone else in the trade. Realize you might need to relocate. I saw someone on woodweb looking to pay around $20/hr for teachable help in Florida. If I wasn't married or had a mortgage I'd probably jump on it.

I've been self employed in woodworking for 4 years now. Before that I spent almost almost 15 years in corporate information technology. I would not have made it if 1) my wife didn't have a decent job with health insurance 2) no debt (other than house) 3) no kids 4) decent savings. Additionally I was blessed with several large projects.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

First, don't quit your day job to pursue this. Pursue this while working your day job. Set up a plan to pursue and try to develop your business. This is never an overnight success. I am in year 4 of my plan. It is working, but I figure at my present growth rate, it will take another 3-4 years to replace my regular job. Meanwhile my regular job provides my benefit package. All business needs to be carefully thought out and a course of action followed.


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