# Work bench smack down



## NANeanderthal

After a comment on my bench about a bench off, I thought its a great idea. There all the threads about planes, braces, powertools of your dreams, etc. How about it on benches. 
Pic of your bench or one you are going to buy or build and Why its best. The topic should provide some info for the woodworking getting ready to build or buy as well as give us a place to gloat. 
Plus even though I'm not building another bench, I still love looking at others.

*UPDATE*
I haven't been on in a while but I just seen a pm when i got on today. It appears the tag "smackdown" is being added to the benches shown here, so you can click here and see em all.


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## NANeanderthal

Wood- SYP construction 2X10 Its heavy, cheap, hard enough to stand up well, softer than the woods I use, except poplar. Face vise chop and sliding dead man are hard maple. That and 1 gal glue was and I was off. Top is 4" thick and legs are just shy 4.5" thick. All mortise and tenons are pegged with white oak dowels. Shelf is ¾" thick and holds my bench appliances. Its heavy, real heavy.









Vises- Veritas quick release face and tail vise. 
Face vise is nice, beats a leg vise in my book any day. I know, it racks. So what, make a simple wedge or card spacer, when it's an issue (honestly, with this vice, it rarely is). Beats bending over to change the pin in a leg vise. 









Tail vise is the bees knees. That long chop mean very little unsupported area like with other types of tail vises. Also means I don't need holes every 3" in a row. Plus it moves the dog holes right up front, which is great for fenced planes.


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## stevenmadden

Here is mine (dream workbench, that is). It will be delivered this Sunday, after 24 weeks of waiting:





































I took these pictures from a blog written by Christopher Schwarz introducing the "new improved" workbench by Lie-Nielsen. You can read about it here:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/workbenches/new-workbench-from-lie-nielsen-toolworks?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+woodworkingmagazine+(Woodworking+Magazine)

I had ordered the original European workbench back in May 2011, and then in late July early August I heard about the "new improved" version. After reading about it and calling back to the Lie-Nielsen workbench department, I decided that it was more of what I was looking for, so I changed my order.

I went to a Lie-Neilsen hand tool event in October 2011 and got to see the new bench in person. I definitely made the right decision, for me.

Steven


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## richgreer

Okay - Here's my bench. The carcass is a cabinet we used to have in my wife's flower shop. On the back side are several very handy drawers and storage spaces.

I put down 2 sheets of MDF on top and then topped them with bamboo flooring. I ran 8/4 oak around the perimeter and installed a quick release vice on one end.

The bamboo is very rugged and it has held up well.

IMO, you can never have too much storage space and often the space under the workbench is under utilized.

The carcass was almost too heavy for two men to carry, but two of us got it in place. Then I put on the MDF, bamboo and oak. It has not been moved since all that was added and I pity the people who may have to move it some day (long after I am gone).

If you look close you will see 2 Kreg clamp hold down plates. You will also see the clamps at the end of the table. Those things are very handy. I use them a lot.

Since the carcass used to be in my wife's flower shop, I may have the only workbench in the country with a built in ribbon dispenser.


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## BrandonW

Great forum topic and very timely since I've been thinking of making a proper bench. I hope this thread flourishes. These are some beautiful benches!


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## Dcase

You just wanted to show off your nice bench didn't you?.... 

No, but really thats one of the nicest SYP made workbench that I have seen. Looks like you have another nice looking SYP saw bench tucked back there also?

I have built 4 work benches now and I will probably build more in the future. Here is my main bench that I made about a year ago… Its a split top design made from red oak, maple, silver maple, cherry, and basswood. Basswood was only used for bottom storage planks. The most interesting feature of my bench is probably my shop made sliding tail vise. Rather then buying a tail vise I made my own using an very large and heavy antique bar clamp. The clamp is attached to a sliding section on the top of the bench as shown in the photos. I went with square dogs so I could make my own out of wood. The makeshift tail vise actually works pretty well and I am happy with it. For the front vise I used an antique Wilton vise that I restored/repainted.


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## NANeanderthal

Steven
That thing looks like a beast, is that a tail or some sort of wagon vise, it hard for me to tell in the pic.

Rich
That tkreg hold down idea is pretty jazzy. what kind of depth can you get out of it?


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## Dcase




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## NANeanderthal

Dan
That tail vise is a great idea, my last bench had something sorta similar with a pipeclamp, but mine was designed nearly as well and I didn't really dig it. How deep is that bench, looks nice a deep which is great. I think the no wider than 24" rule is great for some, but taken as gospel because of who said it. I think 24" to 30" is the sweet spot for me


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## davidmw

Here is my bench, click on the link for a couple extra shots. The top is an old lab bench my grandfather used when he was in med school. Later when they were remodeling the building he took it home where it sat in his garage for 40 years waiting for a grandson to come along. It's solid maple, 96×30x2", and probably weighs in the 300-400lb range (150lb for the bench top alone). The frame is construction lumber, drawers are plywood and everything has a coat of tung oil on it. Not pretty, but very functional and it has some sentimental value as well. Next step is to add some wheels that can be raised or lowered so I can move it around when necessary.


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## Bertha

I hope this thread explodes. I love nothing better than looking at workbenches. There are some incredibly fine ones here. Can't wait!


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## NANeanderthal

David
I think you're crazy saying thats its not pretty. Look at that top, that is something I would love to have in my shop.


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## stevenmadden

*The Newage Neanderthal*: It's a tail vise. The older version looked like an upper case "L", this one looks like a lower case "l". On the old version, the short part of the upper case "L" was known to break off from excess clamping pressure (I don't think it was intended to be used for face clamping anyway), so this is one of the "new improved" items.

Steven


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## davidmw

Thanks Neanderthal  I did debate taking off more material to get rid of the burn marks and gouges, but there goes the character. My grandfather laughed when he saw the marks, made a comment about how it was probably him that burned it.


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## donwilwol

it doesn't look as good now.


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## NANeanderthal

David
I would say that would be the worst thing to do, a workbench should show real wear from use. Makes it looks so much better, not some fake distressed crap, but real long term wear.

Don
Just like with David, the wear makes it much greater. I am looking forward to the use my bench will show one day.


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## Dcase

Neanderthal, I don't know exactly how deep my bench is… If I count the open space of the split top I think I am right around 30in total.

The shop made tail vise I rigged up is not as versatile as your traditional tail vise but the only time I ever really use it is when I am planing wider glued up panels or planing wood across the grain. I do almost all of my hand planing with just a bench stop or dog.


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## tomclark

While I have always admired the traditional woodworking benches, I have never had the reason to build one. I'm just a powertool and nail gun kind of guy. Twenty-seven years ago I purchased this good 36×72" top with lousy steel legs, and have used it ever since. I loved having all the power tools plugged in and ready to go in a second.

Now retired and not building so many cabinets and telescopes, it was time to rebuild the old beast. I have always loved drawers and had no love for benches that have just dust-collecting empty space under them. I still like all my tools at my fingertips! So just last month the old bench finally got a makeover. It is taking some getting used to, but I think the change will be for the better.


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## NANeanderthal

Tom,
If I was a power tool guy that is exactly the way I'd go. Power hooked up to the bench, lots of cabs underneath, and probably shorter and wider. I also prob would have went with a sheet good top. But alas, the only power I use now is for my lights, so I went somewhat traditionally.


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## Bertha

Where's Smitty for a major smackdown?!
Heck, I don't think he'd mind.










Whoa.


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## PurpLev

OK, I'll play. Recycled material from a bowling alley lane hard maple and hemlock FIR for the base :


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## Rick Dennington

Ok…. I'll play the bench game…..It's my 5th bench that I built, and the only one with a storage cabinet, which I built at the same time…The original top began to waver a little, so I removed it, and made the new top out of 4 layers of MDF, making it 3" thick, and trimmed it with Douglas fir. I had one power strip on, and added another when the new top was added. Plenty of power right at hand now. The cabinet has plenty of drawers and storage, and I keep my making tools, layout, drafting equipment, hand sanders, ROS, palm sanders, etc. close at hand. The top is 3" x 42 "wide x 101" long…..Plenty of dogholes, and about 5 coats of poly. This thing is a beast, and heavy as hell. Most times when I'm finishing, I cover the top with a 1/4" hardboard. No problem clamping up projects as it has about a 4" overhang all the way around it. It is dead-flat
and a real pleasure to work on…...Here's a couple of snaps of the Frankenbench…....


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## Bertha

Purp's still got the baddest wagon around. It's got the reach that a lot of the little prefabs can only dream of. I had the whole benchcrafted set in my cart when my better half discovered it. Hard to slip $800 worth of vises past the grand auditor on the amex.


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## Brit

My dream bench. This is Jameel Abraham's (Benchcrafted) bench. I have it as the desktop on my PC although since I'm left-handed, I flipped the image. I would also build a bench on a bench with a twin screw vice, so I have all the versatility and height variation I need.










This is my current bench, so anything would be an improvement. LOL


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## Bertha

Long live the workmate!

Andy, that's just about my dream bench as well (flipped, of course). Since we're dreaming, my bench would have both a shoulder and wagon. I have a shoulder vise fetish and although the wagon and leg can do most anything, I just like to see a big, massive, lumbering shoulder on the move. What's another screw when you're $1000 deep, lol. I considered making my dream bench out of $15/bf wormy chestnut. It's sacrilege, true, but that vise bill would be painless at that point


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## stevenmadden

*Update*: My workbench arrived Sunday afternoon.














































The pictures were taken with an iPhone, to explain the quality.

Steven


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## Brit

Congratulations Steven, I'm sure you're going to enjoy that.


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## Bertha

Wow, nice bench, Steve!


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## NANeanderthal

Great bench Steve, I predict you too will like a real tail vise better than a wagon. Does everything a wagon can, and some more.


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## Rick Dennington

Great-looking bench…I know you couldn't wait to get it…I see why now… A good solid dead-flat bench is a must in the shop, and the work horse of the shop….You have all of the above now, and it will be a real joy to work on…Just don't feel too bad when you put that first scratch or ding on it…it's gonna happen….sooner or later….sorry…....)


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## calicant

Great thread. Lot's of nice benches.


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## NANeanderthal

Feel bad about the dings Rick? Nea, nea Feel good about them. Just like the scars on my body from the Marine Corps, the scars through real use on a bench are a testament of character.


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## Rick Dennington

Hey NAN,

Me feel bad….Nah….I've got a few on my benches, and I call them battle scars. I was just telling Steven not to feel bad…..it's gonna happen….You're right about the character scars on the bench. And like you, I have plenty of battle scars on my body too…..from a booby-trap mine in VietNam, and 2 bullet holes in '67-68….We're both a testament of character….


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## stevenmadden

*Rick Dennington* and *The Newage Neanderthal*: Thank you for your comments and for your service. I do have a full compliment of handtools to go along with the new workbench, so it should have it's share of battle scars in no time at all. Thanks again.

Steven


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## NANeanderthal

now this is a work bench
http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=2237


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## benchbuilder

Nice bench top Rick,
I have two benches, one is 25 1/2" wide and one 40" wide. The 40" top gets the most use, its great for glue ups and layout. I have built several benches now and think the wide top is best. But everyone has there own ideas of the right width, so I guess there isn't a wrong size.
How is the MDF holding up, is there any saging at the ends, I have been using SYP for my bench tops, but have given thought to the MDF for a small assembley table.


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## RGtools

I shall post my ugly as sin rock solid bench.



















As far as a dream bench. A solid Roubo style with no tool well would fit the bill quite well. Anything that weighs 400+ should be fine.


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## a1Jim

Wow lots of cool benches I wish I had room for one .


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## Rick Dennington

benchbuilder,

Thanks on the bench top…..It's holding up very nicely, with no sag at all. It's going on 3 years, and still flat and stable, but very heavy…...with 4 layers of MDF making it 3" thick. I thought with it being a long top (101") and wide (42"), that it could sag, so I beefed up the underside quite a bit…..no problems yet, and still going strong. 
I think you would have no trouble with an MDF top on an assembly table. This is my first bench made of MDF, and so far I'm pleased with it…..If you decide to build one. post some pics…..


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## benchbuilder

Yes I hope this becomes one of the great threads here. I do believe that there are a lot of woodworkers who love looking at and talking about workbenches. Just look at the post by GaryK and his workbench post, over 72000 views, now thats shows a great interest in workbenches.. Somethings you just can't get enough of…


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## renners

I'll have to post a picture of my bench when I get to clear it off, I think it is a very well thought out bench, perfectly sized and suited to my workspace, but in the end, it doesn't get used much. It's more like a dumping ground for all kinds of crap, but that's more to do with convenience, the type of work I do and the space I have. Based it on a Sjobergs, have you seen the price of those?


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## HorizontalMike

OK, I'll bight… Here's mine that I built/finished last March 2011 It is all White Ash, with the sole exception of one piece of Red Oak hiding in there somewhere:




























More HERE


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

As I've said before, this bench has been presented and re-presented a couple of times here on LJs. It has fans (Thanks for the Mention, Al!) as well as detractors, I'm sure, but for me it's been nothing short of wonderful having this bench become part of my woodworking life. There is no way I'd be where I am regarding handtools, craftsmanship or confidence without this bench.

Anyway, there's more if you'd like to see it via the projects for the bench, roubo cabinet and end vise chop in my projects section.

The bench, at it's core, started life as a hunk of oak that was a one-piece entry threshhold in an old home that was torn down many years ago. My father asked why I wanted the hunk of wood pulled to the side when the trackhoe came. I said, oh, I don't know. Just such a cool piece, maybe I'll make something out of it someday.

Well, someday was a long time later and the one-time entryway became this bench. Thanks in no small measure to the inspiration provided by Scott Landis and Christopher Schwarz. I used wood chisels 'with intent' for the first time building this bench. Started my sharpening journey, used my first handplane (Sandusky Jack), and used a brace and bit for the first time building this bench. Solid eastern pine for the legs, asian mahogany for the chops, walnut and pine for the cabinet. All the wood was free / reclaimed / repurposed. The leg vise hardware was salvage from an old alley garage (I didn't know what it was at the time I pulled it out of there, but glad I did). Anyway, enough jabbering. Here are some new, higher resolution pics than my phone has gotten lately.










Across the top from the end vise end:









From the tail vise and crochet:









A look down the not-perfectly-flat benchtop:









And for a never-before-seen look at the threshold history of the bench:


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## RGtools

Smitty. Your bench is one of my favorites here on Lj's to drool over. The story behind the thing is great too.


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## prodesigner

Needing help/advice please. I need to make a new top for my general use workbench. I am going to use 1/4" tempered hardboard as the work surface. My question is should I use MDF or particle board under the hardboard? I plan on using 2 pieces of 3/4" thick material of the MDF or particle board glued together. I am also considering "edge banding" the work surface with 2×4's and adding a woodworking vise to the front right corner. I am going to mount my other vise to something that I can then clamp into the woodworking vise when I want to use it. I have never used MDF for anything so I do not know anything about the material.

Any advice you guys can offer will be appreciated.


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## NANeanderthal

*Prodesigner*
My order of preference as the substrate would be 
1.Plywood
2.OSB
3.MDF

All three will make a fine substrate for a general purpose bench. My "DIY" bench is two pieces of 5/8 OSB stuck together with liquid nails and then covered with hard board. Works great and stands up to some serious abuse, probably much more "abuse" than my wood working bench. I wrapped the sides with hard board as well. I will say if you use MDF be careful what kind of distance you leave unsupported, it will sag under weight and break much eacier than OSB or ply.


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## tomclark

Prodesigner,

I needed a larger assembly table a few years ago, and used two layers of 3/4 MDF for the base, followed by a piece of 1/4" masonite as a replaceable top. The finished size is 40×80. It has held up quite well, and is far more solid than I thought it would be. The base and legs are all 3/4 plywood.
I did put a few crossbraces under the top to keep it from sagging.


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## Rick Dennington

Ok….so now we've moved on to assembly tables, huh? Ok, I'll show-n-tell…
I built this assembly table about 2 years ago to handle the "big projects" that I do. It is 48" wide x 96" long. It is 3/4" Birch ply, and has a torsion box top. Stands about 30" high (a little higher than I wanted, plus the casters), but the nice thing is: when I unload ply out of the truck, it's as high as the tailgate, so it's easy to just slide the ply right onto the table, and keep it flat until a store it in my plywood bin….actually I have 2 assembly tables: the big one, and a small one…..the smaller one is about 18" high, 32" wide, and 70" long. ..it's for the "smaller" projects when the big one is too big and tall…....here they are:.......










The small oner I built about 8 years ago, and has a solid-core door for the top, and beefed up to keep it from sagging…so far…so good…..


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## doordude

nice work table Rick. looks like you've got plenty of room for more


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## doordude

nice bench from horizontal mike; never no what you can do, when you get your tax return. 
humm… pay bills,buy the little woman something,wood,new tool, no a couple of nice vises to finish off my new work bench. yes, it feels good, and looks good


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## Rick Dennington

If I can keep from it at all, and most of the time I can, I will NOT use my main work bench to do any kind of assembly on….I like to keep it clear for the next project, or whatever comes up. I do not like my bench to be cluttered up..I understand that a lot of folks on here HAVE to use theirs for that, cause of the size of their shop and the room they have….Some have large shops, like mine, and can have a table or two just for doing assembly. Some have to even use the table top on their saw which is about dead-flat for glue-ups, clamping, etc…I never liked that idea, either, and don't…...So…if there is anyway possible for you to have an assembly table, no matter how big or how small, and it's pretty dead-flat, by all means build one….If there's no way possible for an extra table, then you have no choice…


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## Ric5

OMG! this is a great thread.. I'm looking to build my own workbench 30X60 or so I would like to keep it reasonable. 
I would like to go in the direction of Rick Dennington's bench. Does anyone have plans? I just got back into wood working. It's been 15 years… Thanks


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## Rick Dennington

Ric5,

I take it you are talking about my main work bench..not the assembly tables? There are so many great work benches posted here, and many more great benches that haven't been posted….I appreciate the interest in my bench….I built it "off the top of my head" so to speak…no plans, just my own plans I drew up. The cabinet under the bench came from some old plans from a ww book…..Send me a PM for more details….


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## mochoa

Geat thread, i'll post mine when its done


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## BrandonW

We need to resurrect this thread!

Here's my workbench. Should I add a crochet? ;-)


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## Bertha

Bump for massive thickness. 
Crochet all day, brother.


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## mochoa

Split top Roubo's are for pansies!..... Lets se if that gets the thread going.


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## Brit

Thems fightin' words Mauricio. Scott will be after you Mr wonky legs bench.


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## TechRedneck

Since we are talking about benches AND assembly tables, how about combining them like this

















Project was posted on LJ's HERE

Since these pics, I have added doors and drawers to the assembly table to hold the bench tools, air tools and enclose the compressor to cut down on the noise.


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## Brit

That is a pretty sweet solution Tech. The best of both worlds, although personally I would put another row of dog holes closer to the front of the bench. Just work around the legs.


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## BrandonW

Tech, at first glance, I thought that was a kitchen island because of the fridge in the background!


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## Rick Dennington

Personally I don't like the Roubo split-top benches….I prefer a solid top bench, myself…..


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## lj61673

Here is my humble offering of a somewhat different type. Sorry in advance as there are no "battle scars" yet. Sometimes I just go down to my shop to be next to it…I know, pretty sick…..


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## BrandonW

Rick, I'm with you, which is why my bench is not a split top. 

LJ61673, those links need some editing so they work.


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## Brit

lj61673 - I can't see those images.


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## Rick Dennington

Brandon:

Now that is a sweet Roubo/French workbench…I looked at it before when you posted it…..Nice, very nice..That's what I'm talking 'bout….!!!!!

Ok…now we got the pictures, lj…..great bench…Now all you need to do is use it…..!!


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## lj61673

Thanks guys my picture posting skills are weak…


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## higtron

Here's a bench I've built




































It's made out of laminated 2×6's from BORG the inlays are peruvian walnut, it cost about $300 dollars to make including hardware, also it took almost 3 gallons of glue to do all the laminating.


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## BrandonW

Thanks for the comments Rick!

LJ, that's absolutely beautiful! I love shaker workbenches and it seems that you have nailed this one! Great work.


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## BrandonW

Wow, this thread is really picking up! Great post, higtron. I love those inlays.


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## Brit

lj61673 - If I'd built that bench, I'd go down to the workshop just to be with it. I saw that on Benchcrafted's blog. Can I ask, why the pink colour?


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## TechRedneck

Brandon:

I thought a fridge was a necessity in the workshop! It has to be re-stocked with some brewskies

LJ61673:

NICE bench there! I am thinking of adding a sliding deadman myself, do you find you use them? And by the way, I am one of those people who go to the shop sometimes just to sit and relax.


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## Rick Dennington

I really like looking at work benches….makes me want to build another one….No, I can't….I've already got 5 benches…..Glad to see this thread come back to life…I thought it had died…..

Brandon: You're welcome….come back anytime….!!!!


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## BrandonW

Rick, we were all talking about bench stuff on the planes thread and Andy and I remembered this thread, so we made a conscious effort to revive it. I'm glad we did!


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## lj61673

Brit,

That color doesn't really photograph well. Must be the flash and cheap camera. The color is a barn red and looks darker in person.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Once you go crochet, all else is passe…


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## mochoa

Brit those were fighting words, thats why I like benches with a fighting stance! This is more or less what I'm building.









This antique bench really speaks to me:








I think the splayed legs look scrappy.

I love all the benches above!

I love looking at workbenches, its like watching a sailboats go by.

Tech, i loved your bench before but I love it even more now that I know it stores cold beer!!!!!

LJ, i like your shaker bench, relly nice and the color is bold and brave and surprisingly I like it, even if it is pink.


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## mochoa

Sorry, barn red is even better!


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## mochoa

I like benches that look like antiques. I don't know why I prefer them to a shiny and new bench.

For example this Moravian bench, again, splayed legs:









I've thought of antiquing the bench, make it dark like one of those Moravian benches but then I thought, if I do that my wife would be more likely to steal it for use as a console inside the house.


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## BrandonW

Sweet, you could use the leg vise to hold the tv up. Keep the dvd player from shifting around by locking in place with bench dogs. I see where this is going.


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## mochoa

Would it be uncool to artificially add some patina to your bench?


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## TechRedneck

Talk to Brit about patina, his bench is well weathered.


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## BrandonW

I don't think it'd be uncool, but how would you go about doing it so that it looks genuine? Just curious.


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## mochoa

On oak I'm a big fan of Transtint Dye. Mission Oak in particular. My bench will be Red Oak.

I was also thinking of experimenting with Danish Oil. I was already thinking of using the colorless Watco per Smitty's recommendation, I could use a colored one?

But then again my whole top will be quarter sawn oak, I don't want to obscure the beautiful rays.


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## mochoa

I know Brit's secret to Patina, just leave it outside, have it double as a patio table. Best of all its free!


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## mochoa

LG & Brandon, what kind of leather did you end up using for the jaws of the leg vise?


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## BrandonW

I just went to Tandy leather and picked up a piece of belly(?) scrap for ten bucks. I originally bought it for making strops, but I had some left over. So far the ten dollars has gone to two strops, one leather vise jaw, one to a friend for a strop, and I still have a little left over. Plus the smaller scraps work well for a final smoothing of turnings on the lathe. The Tandy is about a mile from my house, so it might not be worth it to you Mauricio. But if you do go to Tandy, you'll be in my neck of the woods, so let me know.

I think this is what I got: http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/home/department/Leather/Tooling-Shoulders-Bends-Bellies/9080-315.aspx

I'm sure almost any type of leather, as long as it's thicker than 1/8", should work fine.


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## mochoa

Anyone have thoughts on the shape of the leg vise? It occurs to me that many resemble the shape of a Stanley Lever Cap:









See what I mean?

Also, I really like the heavy bevel on Smitty's Leg vise:


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## mochoa

I'll check out Tandy, I can always order online. Also, I've heard Hobby Lobby sells leather but I'm not sure what kind.


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## RGtools

This just makes me want my Roubo. Good lord, my bench is ugly, the pragmatist in me loves that my bench is ugly as hell and I can put nails in the top to hold a workpeice if I feel the need…..the jeweler is being driven a bit mad by the gaps in the top.

I would prefer Smitty's shaping of the legvise as opposed to Schwarz since it would seem to be able to grip large peices better for edge jointing since you gould have better contact with the jaw.

Need to build a crochett…just for fun.

lj61673, that is an amazing looking bench, a few dents from use will just make it more magnificent. Enjoy.


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## mochoa

RG, I know what you mean, right now I can just screw a planning stop down to my MDF bench and think nothing of it. There is a freedom in that…


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## mochoa

I also like this one:


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## mochoa

So I guess I like more shapely leg vises.


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## NANeanderthal

As a aside, what height you guys sitting your benches at? I have mine at 34", which is about 1.5" "too high" from what is consider ideal by most for my height, arm length, etc. However, I use the Veritas bevel up mostly which just kind of begged to be used a little higher, and it makes it nice to cut joinery at that height. Chop mortises suck that high, so I just do all those on my saw bench.


----------



## NANeanderthal

Speaking of saw benches. throw those in here too


----------



## mochoa

I think I'm shooting for the 32-33" range. I'm 6'2". I think that would be a good planing height. I'm also planning on building a bench top Bench in the future for joinery and carving.


----------



## mochoa

Here is mine, I need better pictures, it got a coat of BLO since that pic.


----------



## Bertha

lj61673, if there's any apology needed on that bench, I'll be a monkey's uncle. It's insanely gorgeous and I love the shaker cabinetry. I'm not a cabinet guy but I see that you snuck your dogs in front. It's truly a glorious thing. Sprung for the big boy vises, I see. There's too much to see in this thread right now. Overload!
.
And I like the split roubo.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Here's where mine ended up re: height. 33 3/8" at the intersection of leg vise and crochet. I have a 1/2" hard rubber mat underfoot…


----------



## mochoa

Smitty, how tall are you?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

5'9 1/2"


----------



## mochoa

No one seems to go as agressivley low on their bench as the Schwarz does.


----------



## ksSlim

One can always slide blocks under the legs after you cut 'em off because they were too tall.


----------



## mochoa

Huh?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Slim, truer words have never been spoken… 

Maur, you are right. In all the discussions I've followed on LJs over the past year, I've read many posts where the bench was essentially too high and caused pain. A number of LJs then would add that they don't want their bench low because their backs wouldn't like low benches. But I've not seen anyone complain they actually have a benchtop they feel is too low… and reported heights are consistently higher than the Schwarz 'rule-of-thumbed'.


----------



## mochoa

Smitty! do you then admit to defying the will of the Schwarz with your high bench? Shame on you. 









Seriously though, you are very right, I have never heard of anyone complain about a bench that was too short. I'm not sure what it is, are folks scarred to go too low, do they think its harder to raise the bench or are they trying to come up with a hybrid height? Or do they simply not believe the Schwarz?


----------



## Rick Dennington

On the bench height, I'm kinda going aganist the grain…..I like my benches high…..around 37-38"....In fact all 3 of my work benches are high…the only ones that are not are the assembly benches, which of course, are low for handling bigger, taller pieces…..I don't do a lot of handtool work, therefore my benches are much higher than most, mainly because of a very bad back, so the bending over a low bench just kills me. 
I'm not a big believer in the Schwartz style of benchmaking….I like to take my own road. He has some good designs, but most of them don't fit my needs….So the low bench just does not work for me…...My router table and chopsaw station are both 42" tall…just right, and I'm only 5' 8" tall, or I used to be…..!!!!!!


----------



## BrandonW

My bench height is 33 3/4" and I'm 6' 1". I also have an outfeed table that is a few inches taller, that comes in handy when I want a slightly taller bench.

If I were more into power tools, I would have chosen a higher bench like Rick.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I made it and was expecting to cut it shorter. Never had to…


----------



## SamuelP

Smitty - Do you use that planing stop?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sure do.


----------



## BrandonW

The planing stop. That's another thing I considered adding to my bench but ultimately never got around to. Still possible along with the crochet.


----------



## NANeanderthal

I'm 5"11 with my 34" bench. My last one was lower, 32", which I liked for planning. But then I got my Vertias bevel up set for my b-day, and quickly realized I didn't like the handles, was going to re-handle them when just based on the upright position of the handle I decided to raise the bench. No the handles are a comfy as can be holding them at that angle, plus I like the height better for any kind of joinery work. If I used my reg Stanley's anymore I will still be at 32", if I used woodies I wood probably be at 30"


----------



## Bertha

Now wait, wait, wait. Possible angry stare of disapproval









Carry on, but he's watching you closely.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I can handle the disapproving stares, with my higher-than-rule benchtop and my cabinet-beneath-the-top non-standardness. Not changing no more, I say.

So, Al, what you decide to build yours of? I'd think in WV there would be framing timbers to reclaim, actually.


----------



## Manitario

My bench is 34 1/4" high; not that I build anything of particular awesomeness on it, but I wish that it was a bit shorter when I'm planing, and a bit taller when I'm sawing.


----------



## Brit

Manitario - Why not make yourself a planing platform and put it in front of your bench when you're planing? Stand on it and your bench will be shorter by the height of the platform.


----------



## BrandonW

And you can cut a hole in your floor when you need your bench to be taller for sawing! ;-)


----------



## TechRedneck

Hey.. If you are worried about height, why not put a set of pneumatic or hydrolic lifters on the legs. You could go with a small electric motor and worm gears. It would probably cost the same as some of those fancy wagon wheel vices. Flip a switch and set a nice comfy level for whatever you do. You won't need a moxen in that case


----------



## Manitario

I like the idea of a planing platform….cutting a hole in the floor…I'll file that in the "future ideas" drawer


----------



## BrandonW

Fair enough, Rob. ;-)

Okay, I think this bench is pretty cool, save the masonite. I love the arched stretchers-very missionesque:


----------



## mochoa

Here is a pretty nice blog of a guy making one of the Moravian workbenches all with Handtools…
http://www.wkfinetools.com/tMaking/art/moravianBench/moravianBench-01.asp


----------



## mochoa

Brit, do you have that link to the website with the Workbenches hand made in England? You posted it a while back in the hand plane thread. There was a guy in the pictures wearing a vest… There was a splayed leg bench in there that had a little different construction I need to look at again.


----------



## lysdexic

Arched stretchers, hmmmmm….....


----------



## Brit

Here you go Mauricio. Add it to your favourites.

http://www.rm-workbenches.co.uk/html/gallery.htm


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Andy, I will! You guys check out that link, very nice eye candy!


----------



## BrandonW

I remember that link the first time Andy posted it. All such beautiful benchwork. You can take any twelve photos out of that gallery and create one awesome calendar.


----------



## lysdexic

I looked at the Maguire bench pics and videos. Beautiful. The most notable thing for me however, is that his benches are certainly a validation of the split roubo design and the gap stop feature.


----------



## mochoa

Scott, thats funny I saw it and it validated the splayed leg Frenchie. I could watch that slide show all day.


----------



## mochoa

Mecguire does his splayed leg roubo a little different. He has that hirzontal cross pice at the top instead of the through tenon going through the top. I'm contimplating it. It would be lot easier.


----------



## mochoa

Check out the youtube video on the McGuire workbenches.


----------



## Bertha

McGuire ain't giving that stuff away. Good on him for that! They are incredibly spectacular. I think I might like that wagon vise better than the benchcrafted. Sacrilege coming from me.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah, I was already set on the wagon vise, I wasnt sure if I was going to make a wooden screw for it or not. I think a 2" wooden screw would make for too big of a slot cut out of the bench.

After seeing that video I think I will go with one of those $30 dollar steel screws you can get. I've seen guys here on LJ that make it so that the screw doesnt move in and out, just the wagon. I may go with that.

McGuire has a couple of more videos on youtube you should check out.

Wasn't Smitty selling one of those screws?


----------



## BrandonW

Mauricio, Are you talking about a veneer screw? That would work well for a wagon vise and be pretty cheap.

Great videos, by the way!


----------



## mochoa

No, the veneer screws are even cheaper, about $20 last I checked. I was referring to the one people usually use for leg vises. They are a little more beefy.


----------



## BrandonW

Yup, you're right, I think mine was around that price. Plus it'd look better on a workbench than a veneer screw.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah, here you go. PurpLev did it http://lumberjocks.com/PurpLev/blog/17919


----------



## RGtools

I had a question today. How the heck to you set a wagon vise into a solid slab top? I think this is one area where the only thing I could think up was a router to cut the track out.

Any thoughts on how a galoot would get this done?


----------



## Bertha

^that's a real good question, RG; one that I'll have to answer for myself if I buy the prelaminated Grizzly top (http://www.grizzly.com/products/Maple-Butcher-Block-60-x-24-x-2-1-4-/T21247).
I had prepared to attack it with any and all tools available. I expected to route out the waste, then cleanup with the chisel. I'm more worried about the tracks; but I haven't really put pen to pad yet.


----------



## mochoa

Check out that blog on the Moravian bench. He augers out a bunch of wholes with a brace then chops out rest of the waste. Check out this link, scroll down to the bottom. http://www.wkfinetools.com/tMaking/art/moravianBench/p2/moravianBench-11.asp


----------



## Bertha

Mauricio, I'm a bit torn about the wagon/tail myself. I don't see a true advantage of the l-shaped tail, other than I like the appearance. I like the idea of a wood screw, too, but I'm not sure how to incorporate a 2" thread into a 2 1/4" top. If I go l-shaped tail, I suppose I can do whatever I please.


----------



## mochoa

You could do it with a big screw but you would need an end cap that is bigger to accomodate the screw.


----------



## Bertha

I'm planning on a huge end-cap, so the monster screw might be viable.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The l-shaped tail vise benches are classically beautiful, but I found not a single instance where I clamped something with the jaws of the vise that are open to the front of the bench. Instead, it was the 'wagon vise' moveable dog that was always in use (and is what ultimately got me to drill into the Roubo; first for the bench pup, then for use with the end vise).


----------



## RGtools

Sounds like I am going to be sucking dust when I build mine. But I guess I need to track down a slab first.


----------



## lysdexic

Rg, I have seen video where people have retrofitted roubo slab for the tail vise. It was purely a router intensive operation. I am pretty sure it was within the Benchcrafted blog which I can not bring up at work.

However, before glue up it is much easier and could be accomplished with a combination of sawing, boring and chiseling.


----------



## Bertha

Smit, I'm not entirely sure where you stand with the L-shaped conventional tail. I have no right to command your opinion, but you know I desire it I'm convinced that it will do little alongside a properly executed leg vise. Why, in a long google image list, do I gravitate toward that classic tail. Why do I love the idea of it so much? I can't put my finger on it. I'm pretty sure I'll have to accept 'because I wanted it' as a defensive argument at some point.


----------



## doncutlip

Nice post, bringing out all those fabulous benches. Makes mine look like a card table.


----------



## jusfine

Al, regarding the conventional tail vise, I like mine, although it is not nearly as fancy as others here.

And as you say, it looks nice (to me too)...

Of course, mine doesn't look new like this anymore.


----------



## BrandonW

That's a nice bench, Randy! Have you posted it here on LJ before?

How's that plane till coming along? I want to see pictures!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

First and foremost, that is an awesome bench Randy!

Second, re: traditional l-shaped tail vises per Al's request… My experience is very limited with workbenches period (three years) and with traditional benches especially (about 8 months). While I was building the roubo cabinet, I had a traditional cabinetmaker's bench in my shop space along with the roubo. Actually, part of the motivation for buiding the roubo cabinet was to get the tools out of the traditional bench and get that bench out of the workspace. Why? The roubo did more, I felt.

I bought the traditional bench at auction, and was in love with the idea of having a l-shaped tail vise in the shop. I mean, a vise that opens to the front of the benchtop just has to be useful, right? Uhm… no. Not for me. Stuff that I wanted to work for dovetails had stress placed on it 'front to back,' as in sawing, so the vise was of little use. In the case of tenon cuts, I used the wood-screw face vise and pitched the work at an angle to cut. Even then, the guide rails of the face vise worked against me, limiting the amount of clamping area available to hold the piece.

Working the long edges of boards wasn't very much fun either, on the traditional bench. Actually, I couldn't do it at all. No sliding deadman, no way to hold the long piece across the front while it was clamped in the face vise. (Again, little clamping area because of said guide rails there, too.)

So once I had dog holes across the front-ish edge of my roubo, it proved to be all the bench I could ask for. Loved the idea of the face vise and l-shaped tail, but I kept turning to the roubo to get work done.

My experience is very limited, again, and there are LJs that would (will?) blow these comments out of the water based on many more years of insight. And they're welcome to. But it's what occurs to me and it's shared for consideration. More than anything, though, is not to deny yourself what you want in a workbench. Because it can always be changed / adapted / rebuilt with what you learn and how your work habits change over time…

That is all.


----------



## mochoa

Randy that is a sweet bench. Al, just go for it man, its not that complicated, its just a 3 sided box, and a threaded end cap.

I've had my wooden screw set up to start carving for two days and its been killing me that I havent had time to start chopping into it.


----------



## mochoa

I dont have a lathe so I'm going to add the hub on aftewards, I think it will actually be better this way because the pices for the hub with go perpendicular to the screw and the grain will alternate direction so it will be very difficult to split. I think it will allow me to make it shorter so it is less obtrusive while planing at the bench


----------



## lysdexic

Randy, very impressive bench. But are you doing the WW bench build?

Mauricio, remind me again what your plans are for that screw?


----------



## lysdexic

You know what I want to do, really more than anything (woodworking) and something that I think of often. I want to design and adopt a logo. Something that I can brand or carve into my work. I have doodled a few things. Why I bring this up here is that I'd like to make my "mark" on the leg vise chop.


----------



## mochoa

Its gonna be for a leg vise on the bench I'm building. I got a blog going, check it out. I'm going out to the shop to carve it now! http://lumberjocks.com/mochoa/blog/28862


----------



## BrandonW

Good luck, Mauricio! Take plenty of pics. (Nothing like some late night woodworking!)

Scott, I want the same thing! I've done a few logos, but nothing I'm really i love with. Also thought about coming up with a name--perhaps something latin or greek related.  Getting a branding iron. Now we're talking.


----------



## lysdexic

Brandon, I felt the logo question was worthy of its own thread. Lets see what comes up.


----------



## mochoa

Intersting question Scott. I was thinking about how to add some subtle flair to my leg vise too. I was thinking about getting creative with the garter, maybe setting it diamond shape and scrolling a little something into it. I like the fleur de lis myslef. I was thinking of trying to adapt this:









However, I always wished I had a really sweet frase in Latin to carve into the bench too.


----------



## jusfine

Thanks for the comments on my bench.

I may have posted a photo of it new some time ago. I purchased two of them from a retiring cabinetmaker about 20 years ago, they came from Germany. Sold one to my neighbor and fellow woodworker.

I was thinking of doing the Guild build, but when I looked around could not find material in the thicknesses I wanted so did not follow through.

Will put up photos later today or tomorrow of a bench I saw at the LN workshop.

On the brand / logo topic, I have a brand I use for my plaques and furniture, purchased it from BRANDNEW.

Keep the pictures coming!


----------



## mochoa

Question for you guys, Since I'm making my bench out of oak should I fill the grain on the top? I was thinking of using Watco Danish Oil, can I just sand that in a few times till the pores are filled?


----------



## RGtools

That might be wise. The grain can trap all sorts of crap that can scuff up your work (especially so if you do any reclamation lumber). I am not sure the best way to fill the pores though because I have never done it.


----------



## Brit

*Mauricio* - It would be wise to fill the grain IMO. Ash has the same problem. Sanding in coats of Danish oil will work, but it will take more than a few coats to fill the grain. It is quite a long process. You would be better off buying some CrystaLac Clear Waterborne Wood Grain Filler and using that to fill the grain. Take time to read all the reviews on Rockler's site.


----------



## Brit

*Mauricio* - Just wanted to add that you will see in the reviews that people say their sand paper was clogging up in seconds when they tried to sand off the excess. That is the same with any grain filler if you don't allow enough drying time. A light hand sanding is best IMO. Try it on a small area first. If you get a white powder, keep going. If the paper clogs up, let it dry for longer.


----------



## BrandonW

You might also try using a card scraper instead of sandpaper for the initial clean-up.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks for the tip Brit. I think I really have to deal with the pores, my top will be all quarter sawn oak so it actually has more pores than flat sawn oak.

I was using a jointed 2×4 and chalk last night to flatten some bench top parts and all the pores filled with purple chalk, I hope I can get that out because the 2×4 trick is working really well. Maybe use compressed air?

Brit, with that product will it fill the pores completely, can I control how much fill I get? I don't want the top glass smooth like a kitchen table, I just want to fill it most of the way so that I don't get metal filings and other grits lodged in there.


----------



## morefirewood

I want to make a new work bench.


----------



## Bertha

^me too, morefirewood!
.
Hey fellas, does anyone know a reason why Douglas fir would make a horrible lower assembly/base. I plan to use a laminated solid maple top, maple apron, and maple wood screws (leg and proper tail).
.
Am I missing a property of Douglas Fir that makes this a terrible choice?
.
Any advice appreciated.


----------



## BrandonW

I don't see why not, Al.


----------



## Mosquito

I like this thread, lots of really nice looking benches…

here's my contribution, I have TWO benches (usually only use one, unless I'm using my jigsaw to cut out holes or something)









Yup, folding tables… I have no shop, so I do what I can with what I have, and what I can store easily…


----------



## Ric5

Al,
I just made my whole bench out of Doug Fir…. It's my first, I just started wood working again after 28 years!


----------



## BrandonW

Nice bench, Ric! Chris, we all make do with what we can! My first bench was a hallow core door on a couple of storage tubs. 

Al, as a follow up to my "I don't see why Doug fir would be bad" here's a comparison of Douglas fir with other typical workbench wood species. Straight out of Schwarz's Workbenches book.




























Still, it's not my favorite choice for the top, since I like hard woods for the top (mine is beech), but it should function pretty well for the base.


----------



## mochoa

Douglas Fir is nice wood Al, it would work well for a base. Schwarz' monster bench uses some nondescript white pine, he isnt even sure what it is.


----------



## Rick Dennington

Al:

Here's a bench that uses Douglas fir for the base…..it is rock-solid….3" laminated legs and cross members….

1 1/2" thick skirting all around the bench, with a 3" MDF laminated top,w/ cross bracing under the top for added strength…...Douglas fir makes a great base for benches….....It's my main workbench…4 more of my benches are also Douglas fir…nothing wrong with that wood…...!!!!!! This is not the last bench I will build…The next one will have Douglas fir for the base, and a hard Maple 3-4" top…..but this one works good…


----------



## Bertha

I can't thank you enough, boys and girls. Talk about saving me some headache by cruising down to the big box store and buying 8 foot 4"x4"ers. Plus, if I don't like the overall bench design, all the money's in the top and vises. I could always re-do the undercarriage. I'm surprised to see where fir falls relative to poplar. 
.
Ric5, that bench is spectacular! If mine comes out anywhere as nice, I'll be happy. I think I can handle the wood movement with the combination of woods. My leg vise will be from a big slab of cherry. I bought vises with wooden (actually plywood) garters, so if it gets tight, I can tinker with them.
.
Brandon, thank you so much for the charts. This eases my mind a great bit. I shuddered at the thought of mail-ordering maple, then gluing it all up


----------



## Bertha

I'll cross post this here in case anyone is interested:
.
http://www.bigwoodvise.com/classic.html
.
2-5/8" (66.8 mm) diameter, approx. 2 threads per inch. 
.
That's a big screw! My tailvise is going to have to be supersized to accommodate it.


----------



## mochoa

Al, it shouldnt be an issue for you but your Legs are also going to have to be big to take a 2 5/8" whole for that screw and still be strong.


----------



## BrandonW

Al, is that Mauricio's new website? ;-) I do love the name of it "Big Wood Vise"! Just keep it simple.


----------



## BrandonW

Rick, are you coming over to the darkside with a hardwood top?


----------



## Rick Dennington

Brandon:

I'm afraid so…..I made this bench in haste about 3 years ago….I had a good Maple hardwood bench, and I gave it to my son when he set up his shop….This bench serves me well, but I'm still planning to make a good bench with all the bells and whistles…..if I don't get too old or croak before then…...


----------



## Bertha

^That's a very good point, Mauricio. I'll probably resaw some 4×4's and glue-up 6×4's for the legs. That asymmetry may be a bit offputting (rather than 6×6") but it'll give me some nice doghole space. I'll have a deadman, so I guess that's not a real issue. It's going to be un-nerving cutting into that top for dovetails. I may consider an alternative (but less ideal) joinery method. It seems a shame to use all-thread with wooden screws, so I'll have to think about it. If I went with metal vise screws I was going to spring for linear bearings on the deadman, just for gangster factor


----------



## mochoa

Ha, Brandon if Al waited on me to supply his screws his bench would take 2yrs.

However, my router bit is in the mail, once I get my prototype tap and die all done I'm going to get a couple more dowels and make some extras to sell. They will go super cheap to my Beta Testers….

What do you guys think of my idea for making the Hub? I'm going to make it by drilling a hole in couple of pieces of hard maple and slipping them over the existing 2" hub. My thinking is that the grain of the hub will run in two directions perpendicular to the screw grain making it almost impossible to split, that will let me make the hub shorter and less obtrusive. It will look a little different because you will see end grain on the sides though.


----------



## Ric5

No way, My wife would kill me. To much money, I live on Long Island we don't have access to reasonable priced hardwoods. I would loved to make it out of maple or ash. I just purchased a 60 year old quick release steel vise for $65, it's 35 LBS. All I need to do is take it apart and clean it up and for the time being I'm done. I wont work in the shop much during warm months, I love working on my pond, gardening on my wood fired pizza oven. this is one of my pies! I'll make you one, when are you coming over?


----------



## Bertha

^Rick, I'll let you know how I like these pre-laminated tops. Pretty pricey but so are planer knives
There are too many Ricks on this thread!
Ric5, that pie is ridiculous! Good grief, I'd love to have a proper brick oven. I priced masons in my area and it was going to be a painful purchase. I've got too many other things on my home-list to consider it. I still don't have that Vermont Casting woodburning stove I want.
.
Surprising, Ric5, I don't have great access to hardwoods in my area either, although I'm surrounded by them, lol. My buddy TechRedneck does pretty well for himself and he's a bit of a drive away.


----------



## Ric5

I designed and help build it, over 15,000 Lbs. takes 2 hours to heat to 900 degrees. 2 mins a pie.


----------



## mochoa

nice!


----------



## Ric5




----------



## Ric5

and a better close-up of oven


----------



## Brit

Mauricio - yes you can fill the pores gradually. Thin it a little bit and work on a small area at a time. I would work through the process on a decent sized off-cut before doing your actual bench to get used to using it.


----------



## Bertha

Party at Ric's house!
.
OMG, Ric5, that'd be a 2nd mortgage for me. That's an obscene amount of solid surfacing. I'm a big green egg guy, so I know what uberhigh temperatures can do. It's really an impressive setup.
Edit: who makes that grill? what is that immediately to the right of the grill?


----------



## Ric5

Thanks, This kitchen was a dream for me,









the grill is 60" made by RCS, right next to the grill is my electric smoker, I have around back of the oven a weber rocky mountain bullet smoker. I also built this potting bench last week.


----------



## Bertha

I'm a real sucker for masonry work, and you've got a lot of it. 
That's what I thought about the grill. I've got the 36 inch. Still don't have a smoker


----------



## DKV

Here's my workbench. What do you you think? Left side for glue ups and sharpening, middle for assembly and sanding and the right side for everything else. The little step ladder is my bench stool.


----------



## RandyM68

DKV, I like the abstract art work on the top. Did you study with Jackson Pollack? I love the way you get all these different functions out of just one bench. You have that shelf and drawersthat are missing on a lot of designs. Can I purchase a measured drawing?


----------



## DKV

Measured drawing, hell! You can have this one if you can get it out of Sacramento…Pollack signature and all.
Don


----------



## Rick Dennington

DKV:

The way I see it…if you're happy with it, then I'm happy with it…...don't matter what other people think…....... That's like my workbench…..I call it the "Frankenbench".......but it's rock-solid and dead-flat, so I might just keep it a while longer…...Brandon W asked me eariler if I was coming over to the dark side with a new hardwood top…...Maybe, but I need to confer with Yoda first, the wise one….....
If your bench works for you, then that's all that matters…...


----------



## BrandonW

Maybe, but I need to confer with Yoda first, the wise one……..

Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.


----------



## RandyM68

Don, I'm passing into New Mexico right now, I'll call you when I get to California. Just wait 'til they see my free workbench gloat. That'll make 'em jealous.


----------



## Bertha

DKV, that's a wonderful bench, cleverly laid out. 
.
Randy, that's my old stomping ground. There are plenty of rocks and sand; I didn't have much luck there with lumber
.
If you pass through Tucumcari, hit up Dell's Diner:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/dels-restaurant-tucumcari-2
.
If you hit up Rio Rancho, check out The Fat Squirrel or Hot Tamales
http://www.hottamalesnm.com/


----------



## carguy460

Al - my old stomping grounds too…just a little farther south of I40 in Portales…what a desolate place that was…


----------



## DKV

Randy,
Only one gloat per workbench allowed and I used it. Tough luck. Your trip is for naught.


----------



## Bertha

Jason, no doubt. I was a doctor there and I asked why I was seeing so many people missing legs and arms. Another doctor said "do the math…train tracks and a dry county". Ouch!
.
On the bench front and a nod to Grizzly. My tabletops will be delivered Monday. Really nice fellow on the phone, I must say.


----------



## RandyM68

Dang, I should have checked this earlier. I'm half way through Arizona, and now I know I'm just wasting my time. I guess I'll go see if the Grand Canyon is still there. I heard they were moving it.


----------



## DKV

Randy,
Two things have happened. 1. 14 others also want the bench. 2. My wife, a marketing guru has decided that since it is in such demand we should auction it off with a reserve minimum. Between you and I, since you were the first to show interest, I can tell you that the reserve has been set at $2000. Don't let anyone else know. Feel free to use the insider information to your advantage.
Don


----------



## DKV

I think we should start a thread showing pictures of our workbenches being used. I'll start by showing you my Jackson Pollack workbench being used to sand some baseboard I'm restaining. I'm using the middle section t-trac clamps to hold the baseboard while sanding and scraping. I've got about 100 feet of the stuff to do. I would love to see the pretty workbenches in this thread being used. I am always ready to pick up new ideas and methods.
Thanks,


----------



## BrandonW

Here's my bench when I need a large gluing surface or want to work outside:


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jointing the edge of a board.


----------



## AnthonyReed

^ Brandon - In different ways, that one is almost as nice as your other bench.


----------



## DKV

Brandon, at the end of the day just pull out the bbq and invite the guys over. If it's raining you'll have to use indoor bench.


----------



## DKV

Smitty, you qualify. The bench looks well used. I still want to see some of those glamor photos in action.


----------



## RandyM68

This is my ugly-assed work bench at an earlier stage.









It is still pretty ugly, but now it will do most everything your pretty benches do, and a little more.


----------



## lysdexic

Randy, love your signature.


----------



## RandyM68

Lysdexic. I like yours, too.We are saying pretty much the same thing. You can talk 'til you're blue in the face, and they still won't get it.


----------



## DKV

Randy, if you explain all the functionality of your workbench I will do my best to understand. How are the top rails used? I will probably steal some of your ideas.


----------



## RandyM68

Don, you can see the stop blocks in the pictures above and below. I can put them anywhere on the table.They are just friction fit, but they hold pretty well. I used almost 70 feet of super strut for the tracks.The dead man is just two blocks with a board laid across it. It works good with the leg vise. I'll make something better when I need it.








I'm going to beef up the front jaw of the vise, but it works pretty good already.








If I want something to mount solidly in the track, I can use oak T-bars, or 1-1/4" flat iron to bolt it to. You can also use 1-1/4" patio door rollers.









I have the hardware for a twin screw vise on the left end. I am going to make some good stops that I can tighten in place, instead of using bench dogs.
I also built a gantry to ride on top. When I get around to finishing it, it will have a carriage on one side for a router. and one for a skil saw on the other. If I can get everything to track straight, it will work as a panel saw and a gantry router for planing, cutting dadoes, and etc.










I made the hand knobs on the bottom to tighten it down, and the whole thing slides off of the table when I need it out of the way. I think of new things to add all the time, I really have no idea what it will look like when I'm done. A lot of it just comes to me by accident, but I like the way it is working out so far.


----------



## Bertha

Randy, you're a genius.


----------



## RandyM68

Thanks for noticing, Al. I'm more than a little bit twisted, too. I tend to just go my own way, even when it will probably get me in trouble. No guts, no glory. Everything I build is one of a kind. I can't even build a matched pair. Most of the lumber is from re-purposed furniture, that I paid very little for, some of it was free. I have more money in the T-tracks, about $120, than the whole rest of the bench. I plan to put another pair of tracks and another leg vise on the left face. The router will slide out far enough to cut mortices, grooves or rabbets on the edge or end of the boards. I am currently building a router table to go between the back of the bench, and the wall. I would like a better location for it, but I am out of room. My whole shop is only an 8' x 18' area on the patio, with an open wall, and it is just about stuffed.


----------



## Bertha

The router idea is from outer space. It makes total sense, though. I have more respect for a guy that simply builds to suit himself, rather than others. I'm impressed.


----------



## dbray45

My modest workbench. It is one of those things that will never be finished.


----------



## mochoa

Randy that sh*t is crazy! In a good way though. Great idea using the tracks, very adaptable.


----------



## mochoa

Speaking of beefing up the jaw/chop on a leg vise, How thick should one be? You know for the right visual effect? I have a 8/4 piece of walnut I'm planning on using for mine. Is that thick enough to be O.G. gangsta'?


----------



## RandyM68

That idea started when I was trying to router plane some old walnut. It worked great on boards that were cupped, I did those first, but the twisted ones wouldn't hold still. I got one shimmed where it didn't rock, and halfway through, the bit slipped in the collet, and cut a big gouge before I noticed it. I threw that Black&Decker in the trash, bought a good router, and started thinking. My ideas usually come out complicated, and hard to pull off, but if it was easy, everyone would be doing it.


----------



## BrandonW

For Mauricio:


----------



## RandyM68

Mine is about an inch now, but I plan to add another inch on the inside. It doesn't flex much now, but doubling it would be better.


----------



## mochoa

Fo Shizzle my Nizzle!


----------



## mochoa

Brandon, that one is about 4" thick, it would probably tip over my little workbench.


----------



## BrandonW

The one on my bench (not the one just pictured above) is 5/4, but that's a little on the weak side. I'll probably go 8/4 with it, which I think is perfect, since it's only meant to hold boards for edge planing.


----------



## mochoa

Ok, that sounds cool. Do you think walnut end caps on a red oak bench would be cool? Nah, i'm not into the two tone thing, It will all be red oak with a walnut leg vise, maybe the planning stop and the wagon/dog block will be walnut. Just a little accent to mix it up.


----------



## Bertha

Brandon's photoshop skills are out of control.
I've got a 3 inch thick piece of curly cherry that I'll use. I'll probably use all 3 inches, too. With a wood screw that's 2 5/8" in diameter with a hub probably twice that, I'll need a bigun. 
It's going to be both ballin' and stuntin', in addition to being quite O.G.


----------



## BrandonW

Yeah, I'm not a fan of two-tone eitehr. The walnut vise should look cool. As you might have guessed from my bench, I to use the vise and/or deadman for accents.


----------



## Bertha

^I'm the same way about two-tone (I might have mentioned, lol). Mine will be maple uppers and vices, fir bottom, and cherry leg vise. All at least similar colors. I think you can get by with a contrasting leg vise. As pretty as the mixed wood tops are, I just don't think it's for me.


----------



## lysdexic

Maur,
The split roubo plans callfor 2 1/2 thick chop. I've milled and glued 2 8/4 slabs of cherry. I've now milled it back to 3" and i'll probably keep that thickness.

Al doesn't like two-tone my ass - Mr. LN 164 owner.


----------



## Bertha

^yeah, what can you do? I'll paint it gold. They should really start making more all bronzers than the 4. There's a bunch of people who'd pay the premium. I know I would. I could always hold out for the Stanley, right?
.
How wide are you going to make each of your splits? You're going cherry with the chop, I see. Are you going with a crochet? My chop will likely be larger than yours (like other things) so I can accommodate that massive wood screw. I came THIS close to the benchcrafted rig, so I'm very anxious to watch yours come along.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ah, finally some 'smack' in the Smackdown forum.


----------



## Bertha

That's a'right. I've got a ton of pictures of Scott in his youth. I'll use them if I have to.
.








.
Strong Swatch, Scott.


----------



## KenBry

Would you use 4/4 lumber on a bench? I got a really good price on 4/4 #2 common Maple. I was initially planning on using it to build a bench. I know I would have to Laminate several (hundred) pieces together. Now I am starting to question this logic. What would you guys do?


----------



## donwilwol

I'd use 4/4 lumber on a bench.


----------



## lysdexic

I would too. In fact I wish my stock was lighter. Maneuvering 6" wide, 8 foot long, 12/4 stock over an anemic Rigid jointer is a bear.


----------



## BrandonW

Ken, I was actually going to use a bunch of 4/4 oak for my top because I had so much of it, but I opted against the idea because of all the gluing.  If you're not worried about the laborious gluing, then I'd say go for it!

Scott, are you still that excited about batman?


----------



## mochoa

Don, the question is, would you do it again? Jointing and glueing 25 boards sounds like it would suck!


----------



## Bertha

^Scott, I'd think moving that stock over ANY jointer would be a bear. And those nice roller outfeed/infeed jobs ain't cheap.


----------



## donwilwol

I really don't mind gluing up panels. So yes, I'd do it again. That said, I'm still a proponent of a large chunk of wood. Not because I don't like gluing, just because I think a big chunk of wood is cool.


----------



## Bertha

^A fellow LJ just mailed me that Woodcraft has their prelam'd slabs for 30% off.
Well, that figures


----------



## BrandonW

Al, I'm sure they're not as good! At least that's perspective you have to have about it.


----------



## SPalm

Hey, I just found this thread. I love it.

I noticed that there was some recent discussion about using Douglas Fir as a bench (Bertha). I made mine with the 4×4s from Home Depot. It was almost 4 years ago, and it is still going strong and flat. The top is a little scuffed, but the softer wood kind of helps here by protecting the work piece. I guess I really still like it, although I wish I would have put more time in on the vises - but I was pretty green then about having a proper bench.

I wrote a three part mini-build-blog back then, but never did publish a finished picture. So I just went down and took one - warts and all. I should have oiled it for the photo.

http://lumberjocks.com/SPalm/blog/4654










Steve


----------



## jusfine

Steve, that's a great looking bench!


----------



## BrandonW

Here's what I just received in the mail:










I love these holdfasts! They're the ones made by Gramercy (Tools for Working Wood), and they just work in my bench really well. I used some Jorgensens but they never grabbed right and wouldn't hold anything. The Gramercy on the other hand work perfectly. Of course, they're not as beautiful as a custom-made holdfast with a brass leaf, but still-for the price these can't be beat.


----------



## DKV

Brandon, I bought the same holdfasts from Gramercy and then had them engraved in gold leaf. I used old English lettering style.
Don


----------



## RGtools

I think they are pretty in a Spartan sense of the word….I see you got three two I understand, what would you use the 3rd one for?

I love mine.


----------



## BrandonW

Don, I'd love to see a photo of what you're talking about.

RG, actually, the third one is for a friend who already has one. Saves money on shipping this way.


----------



## DKV

I had to ship them to a jeweler in London for the old English lettering. Those brits do it the best.


----------



## mochoa

Nice Brandon, I have yet to try mine.

DKV, we need to see a picture of that.


----------



## mochoa

SPalm: That bench is amazing, i would have guessed maple not fir.


----------



## DKV

Brandon, it was an April 6th joke. Here in CA we moved April 1 to the 6th. Something about the state budget and making it stretch. If you saw the picture of my workbench that I posted to this thread you'll know that the last thing I need is a fancy, gold leaf inscribed holdfast.
Don


----------



## BrandonW

Haha, Don. I had my suspicions, but I no longer get surprised at the crazy stuff people do to their tools!


----------



## SPalm

I gotta get me some holdfasts. I don't know why I haven't. Need to make a list of something.

Mauricio: The front skirt and the chops are maple, but the top is fir. Putting a front skirt of hardwood has turned out to be a really good move. It lets me clamp things to it, etc. I should put dog holes down it.

Steve


----------



## BrandonW

Steve, these are the ones I just purchased:

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com//Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-HOLDFAST.XX&Category_Code=TL

They're fairly inexpensive and work really well in thicker benches, like yours.


----------



## DKV

Brandon, just to make sure you're not misleading Steve I have to say that they come without any scribing or inscriptions like mine have. Truth in advertising and all that stuff…


----------



## mochoa

Workbench: Status Symbol, Pissing Contest, or just a place to do the work you like to do? What say You! (Ya'll)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

My thoughts are, my bench is optimal for hand work and it has been a joy to work with. That said, to each his own.


----------



## Brit

Just a distant dream for me Mauricio. I will probably cry when I eventually get one and I'm not ashamed to admit it. 'Till then, long live the freakin' Workmate.


----------



## SamuelP

Here Here Brit.


----------



## BrandonW

Andy, many props to you for being able to do such fine work despite the Workmate! Since it's Easter weekend, I hope I'm not out of place quoting some scripture:

"His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master'" (Mat 25:21).

You shall be rewarded, Andy!


----------



## Brit

Thanks Brandon.


----------



## carguy460

I love reading all this bench talk, and seeing how everyone else solves the bench equation…I built my first bench when I bought my new house, about 3 years ago…at that time I didn't know what I wanted, how I would use it, or what the heck I was doing…now I regret it!!! My bench is 3/4" ply with a 2×4 frame…screwed to the wall…actually screwed to TWO walls. Yes, in my ignorance I built this thing in a corner of the shop. Even worse, I'm right handed and the left corner of the bench is the one buried in a corner…so my advice for anyone wanting a quick and dirty bench, DO NOT PUT IT IN A CORNER!!!! It has been a pain in the rear to work with it…the plus side of my ignorant bench design - I have a great reason to build a proper one!!!


----------



## mochoa

Anybody interested in a vintage screw for a leg vise?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280857709520?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648


----------



## RandyM68

That screw is ugly enough to fit right in, on my bench, but $26? I barely spent that much on the whole bench.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's a cool vise screw, not seen one with a handled end like it before…


----------



## RandyM68

I beefed up the leg vise, and added twin guide rods. Now it works great.


----------



## mochoa

Looks good Randy, I undersand what the bottom threaded rod does but why the other two.


----------



## Bertha

Randy, what's going on with the finger joints on the leg? I really love the appearance. I may steal it for myself


----------



## mochoa

I'm reposting this question here in case some one can help here that is not watching the Handplane thread.

If one of you has this screw on your leg vise (Lee Valley) can you please tell me the size of that square piece?










I've seen one sketch up model have it at 2 3/4" and another has it at 2".

I'm planning on buying the one from Lee Valley and I'm trying to fit it to be bench before glue up and before I have the screw in hand. Its backwards I know…

Thanks!


----------



## RandyM68

The reason for the finger joints is that all the oak you see on my bench came from an old day bed that I bought for forty dollars. At one time someone spent a lot of money on it, it was all solid oak, and a lot of the pieces were over an inch thick. The chop is made from part of the arms on the bed. The finger joints held them together. The inside piece is from the other end, but turned upside down.
When I first put it together, I just used the two screws. It worked, but it didn't track very straight, and would bind up when you cranked it in and out. I took it apart, and did it right. I added two one inch dowel rods running through bronze bushings. It slid in and out freely with out the nut on it.


















On the first version, I tried to just capture the coupling nut on the back side between a couple of pieces of angle iron. That didn't work worth a damn. This time I morticed the hex about half way into the back. When I put it together, I planned to block the nut in solid, and drill it for roll pins so it didn't move in and out. I pushed it shut with my knee, reached down and adjusted the bottom nut, spun the coupler nut up snug, wiggled the crank a little 'til the hex lined up, and spun it tight. Hey wait a minut, why do I want to pin that nut in place again? So I can crank it in and out eight or ten inches when I adjust it? Now I can loosen it three or four turns to disengage the nut, spin the nut out of the way, pull it straight open, lay whatever in it, push it shut, and lock it down. It's much easier than turning that crank 40 or 80 rounds. I even took that knee busting crank handle off of it today. By the way, here's another attachment I made for the back side of my bench.


----------



## bandit571

I guess mine is a bit LOW TECH as far as a "bench" goes:









A view of the side with a saw vise attached:









Sabresawing out a handle for a handsaw:









This is the "main" part of the bench. I can also saw by clamping to the side of the bench:









or, I can clamp a board to edge plane. One end sits on a 2×4 stair railing,  the other end is clamped to the main railing of my Back Porch









Note: For all of the Bench builders out there, REQUIRED READING: The Woodwright's Workbook. It will eventeach you how to make your own screws for your vises.


----------



## RandyM68

I do that, too. I'll clamp boards to posts, railings, kitchen tables, or whatever is convenient. Some guys get way too caught up in the idea, that you *need* a traditional workbench. They spend tremendous effort to make their's look just like someone elses. All you need it something solid that you can clamp boards to. All of the fancy vises, bench dogs, sliding deadmen and other stuff are nice. But if you can't figure out how to do it another way, you might have picked the wrong hobby.


----------



## mochoa

Does that router lift work pretty well? do those dowels do a good job of keeping the router square to the table? I love the simplicity of the design.

Bandit, you win the no excuses award for that on. You've figured out a way to do everything on that porch


----------



## RandyM68

I am going to put two inch long bushings on each dowel rod, to take wiggle out. It's not too bad right now, but it is easy enough to take it apart and fix it. I'll put some loose stop collars on the top and bottom of each, that I can cinch up rock solidly , for a long run of parts. I started trying to copy another lift design, and this is what I wound up with. I can't even copy someone else's idea right. Here is the one I was going for, if you do it right, it looks pretty rigid.


----------



## Bertha

Randy, you've got more clever inventions around your shop than I've seen in a long while


----------



## RandyM68

Thanks, Al. Everyone else thinks I'm just a dumb ***********************************.


----------



## lysdexic

Randy, I agree with Al. I enjoy people who just figure stuff out and make it happen. But Randy, between you and me, I *KNOW* Al is a dumb ***********************************.


----------



## RandyM68

I suspected as much, but I won't tell anybody. Shhhhh.


----------



## mochoa

I concur with the above, sometimes you just got to do it and see if it works. You can go crazy researching stuff online sometimes.

On a different workbench note. Squeeze out anyone?









You dont want to be starving your joints like some people we know… ;-)


----------



## lysdexic

I hope you like scraping! :^)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looking good, Maur!


----------



## lysdexic

What kind of wood is that Mauricio?


----------



## mochoa

QSWO


----------



## mochoa

Red oak I meant


----------



## waho6o9

You have some serious glue laminating skills Mauricio! Very good.


----------



## AnthonyReed

That is great Mauricio!


----------



## Brit

Holy squeeze out Maruicio! I knew I should have bought shares in Titebond.


----------



## Bertha

^At least it wasn't Gorilla Glue


----------



## mochoa

It was more squeeze out than intended for sure. I was pouring it out from the gallon container and it's a little hard to control how much you put on. I scraped it all off while it was still wet.

I hand planed each joint so they fit very nice, I almost feel like I could have clamped the whole thing together with one clamp (and dowels for alignment).

Al, and Brit, you guys are very perceptive to be able to pick up on the titebond bottle in the bottom left of the picture, I didnt even realize it was there.


----------



## Bertha

^all it takes is a small glimpse of that label. We all know it too well


----------



## dbray45

Maurico - I have a small container (butter, margerine or something) that I pour the glue into and use an acid brush to apply to edges (both mating edges). Also, squeese bottles for condiments for about 75 cents work well also. For big areas, I use a roller to make sure that I have coverage (12.00 from Micheals or other craft place).

When I spoke with the great folks at Titebond, they told me that one of the biggest reasons for failure was from gaps or dry areas where there is no glue (and lots of runout near the edges). Since addressing this, applying glue thinly to both sides and rolling the glue so coverage is total, my glued joints have been much stronger.

Basically, the glue sticks to itself more than the wood. If the glue starts to dry over, the glue will not adhere to the wood but will adhere to more glue.


----------



## Brit

To be honest, I didn't notice the bottle. I was going by the color and the viscosity of the glue. HAHA - How sad does that sound? I'm off to get a life now.


----------



## Bertha

I've switched over to the silicone basting brushes from TJMaxx myself. Once the glue dries, the brushes just shed it. I always used acid brushes in the past but the roller makes the best sense, for the reasons David raises. I've never had a joint failure with Titebond III. I can't say that for other glues I've used.


----------



## dbray45

If you make something that is for outside - and set it in the sun, Titebond III will fail. Titebond II, even though not waterproof will not fail from the heat. Varnish well.

For cutting boards, Titebond III is best for joints (waterproof) - as long as the joints have no gaps.


----------



## RandyM68

Model airplane glue works best for me. Tite bond just sticks to my nose hairs, and I don't seem to catch a buzz.


----------



## lysdexic

Randy- and I thought I was alone!


----------



## mochoa

Thanks David, great glue discussion. I bought a squeeze bottle with the roller attached but I think it comes out too slow, especially for a workbench build where you need a lot of glue because of the big surfaces. I end up having to refill it in the middle of the glue up.

On this build I've been just pouring it out and using the roller to spread it around. I think the condiment bottle would work for me next time. I'll have to pick one or two up the next time I'm at the dollar store.


----------



## Bertha

Randy and Scott, you've got to inject it.
.


----------



## waho6o9

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10553










Glue bots rock for small projects, but I like the idea of silicone basting brushes for larger projects. I'm gonna give the basting brushes a try.

Good tip Al, thanks.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah that sounds like a good one. I'm going to pick one up next time I see one.


----------



## mochoa

Glue bots look good too Waho, I'll keep them in mind.


----------



## Brit

That's not a glue applicator! This is a glue applicator 










They sell them for applying mortar to point brickwork.










Cheap as chips as we say (our chips, not your chips).


----------



## Bertha

^Andy, that's not a glue applicator! THIS…is a glue applicator:
.


----------



## waho6o9

Use one of these.


----------



## Brit

I don't know, you Americans have always got to *GO LARGE* on everything haven't you? LOL.


----------



## RandyM68

Most of us are just born that way.


----------



## Bertha

^still, others of us compensate
.


----------



## bandit571

nah, that is just his work truck, you should see his "fancy, go to Sunday meeting" truck…..


----------



## BrandonW

Nice Mauricio! Those look like my glue joints! Good luck on the build!


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Brandon, they should, I used your dowel trick for alignment. It made glue up a breeze!


----------



## lysdexic

Brandon, can you reference your dowel trick. Thank you.


----------



## mochoa

The dowel trick is the poor mans domino trick.


----------



## bernwood

Had an idea after seeing a picture of a bench with t-tracks that had a dual crank vise on the end. I wanted the t-track system but couldn't afford the vise. So I improvised and used pipe clamps.


















Ended up with 70 inches off clamping space.








Lots of clamping options with a sliding support system for the face vice.









One last thing I thought of was to allow easy removal of the clamps to insert a bar clamp so I can cut the ends of a board. It takes me 30 seconds to remove the clamps and about 45 seconds to replace them.









l


----------



## mochoa

Wow Bernie, new fangled workbench eat your heart out. Is that bamboo flooring for your top? Thanks for sharing that.


----------



## RandyM68

I like it, Bernie. I used t-track all over my bench. You can clamp anything to the top or face. I thought about setting bar clamps into the top too. It should make it easy to assemble and glue large panels on top.


----------



## lysdexic

Bernie,
Very resourceful. You got my wheels turning. The makes me wonder what I could do with the gap in a split top Roubo.


----------



## RandyM68

I like the idea of the parallel clamps on the track too. I don't remember seeing that before. I think I'll do that too. Thanks for the ideas. I like originality.


----------



## waho6o9

You da man Bernie! Thanks for sharing those awesome ideas.


----------



## bernwood

Maurico - yes, I used bamboo. My son had a surplus from his flooring job. Randy, I wish I could claim the parallel hand screw clamps, but I remembered seeing a drawing of that nature, probably in Shop Notes. Thanks for the compliments folk. What I came up with is a solution to my needs. My original workbench is still in place (2nd picture) which is a solid core door set on a 2X4 frame built into the wood floor of my workshop 11 years ago. It wasn't my original idea about the t-track or the pipe clamp but I'll take credit for the particular blending of the 2 basic ideas. That being said, my thinking cap is really, really tired. 
I'm sure Randy can testify to the versatility of t-tracks. The fences pictured here are bamboo flooring, about 1/2 inch thick which allowed me to run a scraper right off the edge of the board. I have other fences to hold very thick boards. I even have a toggle clamp I can use. I also have a "v" and plan to use rounded boards or wheels to clamp round stock.


----------



## BrandonW

Nice Bernie!

Scott, regarding the dowels, see here:

http://lumberjocks.com/BrandonW/blog/27683

Not sure I'd call it a "trick" but it's a nice way to make the alignment during glue-up much easier!


----------



## Bertha

The genius of the day award to Bernie with the triple wagon tracks. That's very nice work with the handscrews. That is a very versatile bench.


----------



## mochoa

Square Dogs or Round dogs? What do you guys prefer and what are the advantages to each?


















I would go with round dogs just because they are easier to make, and I could put a hold fast in any of the dog holes since they are 3/4". But, square dogs do look cool too.


----------



## donwilwol

I like the round. If you need a quick dog, just chop a piece of 3/4" dowel. I always keep a length or 2 of 3/4"birch dowel laying around. For a couple of bucks you don't have to worry about wrecking them or hitting them with a nice sharp plane.


----------



## RandyM68

Square dogs are hard to roll down a hill. Kinda like a skinny wife. Plump them up a little, and they'll make it all the way to the bottom.


----------



## mochoa

Don how do you keep your dogs in place, friction fit, or do you have some kind of spring or ball catch that keeps them at the desired hight?


----------



## Bertha

I like the appearance of square but round is hard to beat for the ease of construction. There was a big writeup somewhere (maybe the Landis book) about a router jig these guys made for making square dogs. It involved some router trick prior to top glue-up. That's out for me, obviously.


----------



## donwilwol

Friction typically but some are long enough to set on the cabinet underneath


----------



## lysdexic

Here is a blog entry at the BenchCrafted blog discussing doghole choice


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Round dogs. Easy to add, compatible with sliding deadman and whack-a-holdfasts on legs, and can be turned to any angle. I bought two of the Veritas brass dogs, love them.


----------



## lysdexic

I did square holes but ONLY because it is possible during the step wise lamination of the bench top. If I was doing a retrofit or starting with a slab - round is the way to go.

Speaking of which - someday I plan on modifying my 38" tall work table into a joinery bench with round dog holes.


----------



## RGtools

Either….Round are easier to retrofit and better compatible with other accesories.

However I think the square ones hold a bit better long term and are easier to make.

Final answer. I use both….you can never have too many either.

Follow up question: Where do you poke holes in your bench?


----------



## bandit571

Planning on round ones for the Bench i have underway. Why round? Since i have no vises right now, two doggies and a couple of wedges will do just fine. Place a board between two dogs, add some wedges to make things tight, and plane away. Since this bench will be for plane work, that is about all I need. I could also use pipe clamps through the dog holes, since all i have are the 1/2" pipe kind. I gotta stop reading St. Roy, and start building things…....


----------



## BrandonW

I went with round as well-mainly because I wanted to use the holdfasts in the dogholes. Round has the versatility as others have mentioned. That said, I love the way benches look with square holes, and I think Scott's bench build is a fantastic example of that. Plus square dogs probably work better-but I've never had any so I can't say that with certainty.


----------



## Bertha

I really like the aftermarket round dogs but they're awful expensive for what they are. The wonderdogs and pups enjoy a wonderful reputation but they're heavy on the wallet. I'm sure they're worth every penny, but DANG, Veritas.


----------



## Ric5

I just purchased these 2 for 13.99. They do the job and the price is right
just scroll down to round bench dogs
http://www.ptreeusa.com/holdDown_clamps.htm#671


----------



## donwilwol

I'm with Brandon, I like the looks of the square holes. I made mine round however. I like the diversity.


----------



## lysdexic

For those who really can't decide, on option in the Split Roubo plan is to drill 3/4" dog holes in between the square ones. I thought it a bit much. Regardless, I will place 3/4" holes throughout the bench top for holdfasts.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ric, those look just like the Veritas dogs, just a different color. Nice find, you'll love 'em.


----------



## lysdexic

What happened to snoopy?


----------



## mochoa

I just went here during my lunch break, nice little break in the day. 









Took some Lie Nielsen planes for a test drive. I also saw those silver dogs, they are aluminum, dont see why they wouldnt work great. The brass ones are soooo sweet looking though, and heavy. About $30 for two.


----------



## Bertha

^$30 for two that you can walk out with is a sweet deal. I just don't like paying the $12 in shipping for $30 worth of dogs. The only place I can walk out of with tools around here is Lowes


----------



## SamuelP

WHere is Snoopy?


----------



## RandyM68

If you guys have a lathe, just make your own. Take an 1-1/4" hardwood dowel ( or brass or aluminum) and turn down one end to 3/4". You can leave the head round, or put a flat on it. On a couple of them, I would thread a hole for a piece of all thread, and make my own wonder dogs. $30 my ass, you guys want me to sell you some plans? I can make blueprints, too.


----------



## Bertha

^she's right here, Scott.
.


----------



## RandyM68

SNOOPY, dumb ass. No one wants to see that.


----------



## lj61673

Square, because they're harder.
What does easy have to do with woodworking??


----------



## TechRedneck

I have the ones Ric referenced, they are inexpensive and work quite well.

I also use the wood dogs don't seem to hold up or hold stock as well as the metal ones IMHO. $14 is worth it.

I saw a lot of posts where guys try to use routers or forsner bits to drill the round holes, I used a bit and brace and discovered it was the best tool for the job.


----------



## jusfine

What are you talking about, square dogs?










Wish I could have gotten 2 for $30.00.


----------



## BrandonW

I might pick up a couple of those aluminum bench dogs. Peach Tree isn't far from me-- actually Mauricio and I have it good here in Atlanta: some decent lumberyards, Highland Hardware, PeachTree, a nicely stocked Woodcraft, and Rockler (I hardly ever go there anymore). I didn't know how fortunate I was when I started this a couple years ago.

Yeah, I didn't even recognize Smitty without the Snoopy avatar.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"Now in Living Color!"


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Brandon, pls pick up a pair for Al / send them to WV and diffuse his shipping crisis…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wait, that didn't sound right.


----------



## donwilwol

this thread has gone to the dogs. Round or square it doesn't matter.

Now I can't get that piano music out of my head Smitty!.

Randy, thats a pup, not a dog.


----------



## jusfine

Thanks Don. She could grow into a dog.


----------



## donwilwol

she's a nice looking pup.


----------



## Bertha

Outstanding looking pup, and certainly not $30 nor $300 worth of dog. Quality kibble alone will set you back that in a week


----------



## jusfine

Thanks guys, I thought you may have also chimed in on the naming of them both on my OFF TOPIC thread, but Snoopy made the first and one of the best suggestions.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Awww, t'wernt nuthin…. Good looking pups, Randy.


----------



## Bertha

Bump for workbench awesomeness.


----------



## RGtools

What littile things about your bench bug you….and why haven't you fixed them yet? Going through a massive teardown redo on my bench right now. I posted this on HOYD but it would better fit here:

In a fit of annoyance. I tore apart my workbench this weekend all the little issues with it have started to add up. I started fixing them. Face vise now grips work like it should have in the first place. The handle is now secured with countersunk Phillips heads rather than the evil square heads that I could never tighten quickly because I always had to find the tool. Also I put shock absorption into the handle of the face vise handle by placing rubber rings in between the end caps and the metal t-handle…thank you Lie Nielsen for that idea. I also cut the end of my workbench off (square this time), and recessed my end vise. I reworked my shelf nailing it to the bottom of the stretchers as opposed to sitting on top (looks better and gives more room for hold fasts and clamps on both the top and the stretcher). While I had the thing upside down I took the time to rout a groove for an eventual sliding deadman. I now need to:

Recut a second jaw for my end vise
Drill a secondary set of doc holes.
Build and instal sliding deadman on the lower track I have yet to build. 
Drill a set of dog holes for my face vise.
Install a planing stop on the end of my bench
Attach two walls to the shelves I installed to make sure nothing ends up on the floor that I don't want to.

My question….which I realize should be posted in the workbench smack-down forum is this: have you ever had one minor irritation turn into a several part project on you…what made you snap? For me it was my face vise slipping while trying to joint and edge.

I forgot, I also will be reshaping my face vise just to make it a tad prettier.


----------



## Brit

Where do I start Ryan? LOL.


----------



## RGtools

You of course win, Andy.


----------



## BrandonW

Andy, when you build a workbench, are you going to store it in the kitchen? I don't imagine you'd want it in the garden.


----------



## Brit

No Brandon. I can only work in the kitchen if I am making something my wife has asked me to do. Funny that isn't it?

Actually I have the shell of a workshop, but it is being used for storage at the moment. I am waiting for my wife to finish sorting through stuff in our garage so the the stuff in my workshop can be moved into the garage. Then I have to lay on a proper electric supply and insulate the floor, walls and roof and then I can work in there. No workbench for me until all that is done. :-(


----------



## Bertha

^I know what it's like to wait for a proper shop, Andy. I've wanted a proper one for well over 10 years now. For the last 15 years or so, I've lived in a constant state of move expectation. Even though my shop is tiny, it's what I've wanted for so long. Now I just need a bench for it. 
.
Still not a single peep from the bigwoodvise guy. Took my money no problem; it's the contact that seems difficult for him. I've been giving him the benefit of the doubt (illness, etc.) but my patience is nearing an end.
.
Should have gone Lake Eerie like everyone here recommended.


----------



## lysdexic

Al, You know that i am with you and Andy on waiting for a proper shop. Such is the life of delayed gratification. But now is the time that you have worked so hard for. Enjoy.

Still. I'd love to have a free standing shop. If I could just get my wife to quit parking in my shop and convince my kids that they dont deserve bicycles or other toys and that the cats need to be exterminated THEN I would be happy.

Scratch that - I am happy with what I have.


----------



## Bertha

^Your shop is quite nice, Scott, and I know ENTIRELY what you had to do to get it. You can always build a freestanding shop in the future; I probably will end up doing the same. 
.
Update on the bigwood vise. Refunded without a single message. No "sorry", no "I'm sick", going out of business, etc. Now I'm a month behind on my screws and your bench is almost done I should have gone Benchcrafted.


----------



## donwilwol

you guys know I just built my shop a little over a year ago. I had a shop back 15 years ago or so when I was in the business, but closed it up. After that I worked out of a 14×14 shed, so basically I was like Andy, pulling everything out to work in the back yard for anything but the smallest projects. Its so nice to have a place to really work.


----------



## BrandonW

I'm getting by with a one-car garage. The car hasn't fit in there in a long time, but I have very little space once the tools started coming in. A table saw, lathe, router table, planer, SCMS, bandsaw, and now a workbench. It's a decent space for small projects, but once I start building anything big, I run out of space quickly.


----------



## Bertha

Crossposting: just put in an order to Lake Eerie for the two vise screws. Going to use an external garter for the leg and an internal on the tail/wagon.


----------



## RGtools

Before









About 80 percent done with modifications


----------



## donwilwol

superb….


----------



## Bertha

veeeery nice


----------



## RGtools

I was able to use a plow plane last night without a sticking board…joygasm.


----------



## donwilwol

joygasm…...never heard that before…...


----------



## BrandonW

Believe me, you don't want to walk in on someone using a plow plane without a sticking board. Awkward!


----------



## donwilwol

especially in the middle of a joygasm!


----------



## mochoa

very nice Ryan, have you thought of covering up your tool tray? I know you dont like it.


----------



## Bertha

I don't believe in tool trays either. If you hacked off Ryan's tool tray and tail overhang, I think that's about the size of my planned bench (60"x24"). Tiny bench, I know. That's why I'm going to dovetail in 8" legs, 4×4 stretchers, lol. 
.
Ryan, do you wish you had a wagon? Would you if you had it to do over again?
.
This is almost too sweet to believe:
.


----------



## lysdexic

Funny.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Looks good Ryan.


----------



## Brit

No idea what a joygasm is or a sticking board come to that, but that's why I love you guys. I learn so much just nipping at your heels and trying to keep up.


----------



## lj61673

Love my wagon…


----------



## Brit

*JOYGASM* - A moment of intense, unfiltered joy or passion, with or without sexual thoughts/
feelings involved. (source: Urban Dictionary http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=joygasm)


----------



## Bertha

*without sexual thoughts*
Well, that rules out the usage of the term for me when discussing workbenches.
There's a reason I have round dogholes, after all
.
.
.
sorry…couldn't resist.
.
Edit:
*with *or without
Apparently, I'm OK


----------



## Brit

Puntabulous.com says that *WORD + "GASM" = AWESOME*

E.g. *Poogasm* - Getting to the bowl just in time.

I wonder how many woodworking-related examples we could come up with. How about these to start off.

*Jointgasm* - When two pieces of wood meet perfectly with no visible gaps.
*Finishgasm* - 1. When you finally reach the end of a complicated project. 2. When your applied finish does not contain any bubbles, dust nibs, or insects.
*Wifegasm* - When SWMBO actually likes what you've done.
*Sharpgasm* - When the hairs seem to leap off your arm before your edge touches them.


----------



## Brit

AL - Wash your mouth out.


----------



## Brit

Now I know what a Sticking Board is too and it's not what you're thinking Al.










Check out Dan's blog for more information.


----------



## BrandonW

Finishgasm -brings a whole new meaning to the phrase 'happy ending.'


----------



## KenBry

I started building my bench about 2 weeks ago. I bought some (300bf) real rough 4/4 Hard Maple. This stuff was #2 common grade but in reality it should have been #3 or nearly Pallet grade. At any rate I have laminated up 4 posts that are going to be my legs. They are 4" square but I might enlarge 1 to be 5-6" wide for a leg vice.

I started cutting my top pieces this last tuesday. It's going to take alot of boards to get the 26" wide top I want since I am working with ruff 4/4. The top is going to be 72" long by 4" thick. A beast of a top…

Still playing with hardware options and how to attach everything together. But getting everything in rough cut is a step in the right direction.

I also plan on a sliding dead man.

Hopfully all you guys can help me along the process.


----------



## mochoa

Welcome Ken, glad to have you here, we love talking benches so post any questoins you have, people here have or are bullding a variety of bench styles so there is a diversity of opinion. are you doing a Roubo?

I would have tried to talk you out of using 4/4, it will be very stable but a lot of work milling. But it sounds like your well equiped to handle it.


----------



## mochoa

Al, why dont you ask Carter if he can make you a couple of screws? I bet he would give you a pretty good price?


----------



## KenBry

Mauricio,
The lumber was at a price point where I couldn't say no. I paid $1 per BdFt. Yea milling sucks…. But I don't mind, it's teaching me milling techniques that I didn't know before. So there is a skill building pay off that I can't replace. 
Yea, the intent is some sort of Roubo, I have read about so many different benches and looked at so many various types I am cross-eyed. So instead of reading so darn much (6 books, 4 magazines, forum posting in the thousands to include this post) I figured it was time to get started when I found that lumber for that price.


----------



## RGtools

Al. My next bench will have a wagon vise…but only if I have a shaving horse as well. I like using the end vise while standing for shaping long parts with a spokshave or a drawknife. If you have a wagon you lose this feature. However you gain a ton of workpeice support an nice feature on thin and narros peices.

Sawgasm…spliting the line with a 4 1/2 tpi saw on a gorgeous peice of beech.


----------



## Bertha

^I don't do a lot of drawknifing (is that a word?), so I hadn't even considered that use. I could see why you'd need something other than a leg and wagon for that (unless you've got a lot of space to the left/right of your leg). I just like the way traditional tail vises look; but the more I consider the design, the more I think wagon.
.
I wouldn't take much prodding to make a shaving horse. I slept and lost on one at a local antique store. By the time I realized I was a fool for not buying it, it was gone. Late 1800s 3-4" thick walnut.


----------



## RGtools

The reason it's nice is because there is nothing but air next to your workpeice. If you try the opperation at your face vise the benchtop often interferes with the handles of the tool. Again if you have a shavehorse this is a moot point.

I would not need much prodding either, my problem is coming up with a decent space to put it. Workbench, toolchest, sharpening station, sawbenches…it starts to add up. I keep drawing out my shop in hopes that I figure out a way to get a springpole lathe and a shavehorse in there, but the math just has not worked yet.

Al…get a drawknife. Ripping a 1/4 off a wide board with one is VERY satisfying, faster than a scrub or a saw any day.


----------



## mochoa

FWW just put out a special magazine all about benches and different bench fixtures. I finally saw a use for the german style end vise that I dont think you can do with a leg vise or wagon vise.

In there they had instructions on making a miter shoot, that you can use for trimming miters or square shoulders on a tennon. If you turn it horizontally to trim the tennon you need to have the german stle shoulder as far as I can tell.









But then again you could just put the tenon in the whole of the shoulder vise and do the same thing.


----------



## RGtools

Or trap the jig inbetween your benchtop and a holdfast.


----------



## lysdexic

Al, here is a pic for ya. A Roubo with a BC tail and a wooden screw leg vise.


----------



## mochoa

Good thinking RG.


----------



## KenBry

How in blazes do you get those end cap dovetails? Do those strech the full length of the end cap? I would like to build a dove tail end cap on my top. Nothing like the one in the photo above but a basic 2 dovetail could work for me.


----------



## Brit

Mauricio - Or just forget about yet another jig and undercut your shoulders with a sharp chisel for a really close fit. It is end grain and therefore not a gluing surface so it only has to be square to the cheeks at the outside edges.


----------



## donwilwol

Ken, I did a one DT end. Its only dovetailed on the outside skirt. So the dovetail is about 2" thick. I hope that helps.


----------



## RGtools

I do it Andy's way. It makes afor tighter looking joints…especiailly when you add it a drawbore. Compression is a beautiful thing.

But the jig is still cool.


----------



## Bertha

Scott, there's that Space Invader again, lol. Good Gawd that's a gorgeous bench. That one's a bit too pretty to use. Don, is that an allthread contraption? I've been running my mouth about dovetailing the legs into the top but with my pre-lam top, I'm starting to be weary of cutting into them. I just assume that they're glued up right. I don't want to run into a Domino or something. That brings you into little girl territory
.
I would like to take this moment to say that Don's bench is retarded nice.


----------



## KenBry

Thanks for that Don. Since I am going with a 4 inch top I was considering going skirtless. But I could add one extra long board to the outer sides and dove tail into that.


----------



## waho6o9

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/

Derek Cohen's dovetail in his workbench above is top shelf workmanship no doubt. He is very helpful and his site has a ton of helpful tips. He's a great guy as well.


----------



## mochoa

Andy, you're right, the jig isnt necessary but like Ryan says its got to be one of the coolest jigs ever.

Ken, I feel you and know exactly what your went through, in planning your bench, you get what in my business we call Analysis Paralysis. The options can be a lot to digest. And like Smitty says, the wood for my bench found me. Sounds like that's what happened to you and it makes your decision easier. Here is my blog on my bench build, I'm also going French but I'm doing something a little different.


----------



## mochoa

Don bench is even nicer now that it has a leg vise!

Al, I dont see why you would have any problems cutting into that top.


----------



## Bertha

Prepare to stand down, lol. This is why I need a bench. I've been carrying this poor fellow around; spent greater than a year in storage. I'm due.
.








.
I shouldn't be proud….but I am


----------



## TDog

Loving the bench thread, lots of options. Here are a few benches I have looked at and think all have great features. I think I am going to eventually build the roubo using the plans from Chris Schwarz's blue book on Workbenches with the 2 or 3 different bench construction plans included. It's got plenty of work holding options. I am still thinking of going with the benchcrafted hardware though.










A nice one above with many storage drawers










The above bench looks like a good one with storage also










I'm still digging the roubo above in this picture the most.
The others look great and I'm sure are plenty for the woodwork I do.
But, if you are going to get or build "your bench" go for the one that you want to look at for a long time.
Plus there are so many great tool chests and cabinets to be built for storage. Just my thoughts.
For the prices on the above benches, and for my chosen profession, I will be building my bench Lord willing…of the preferred and economical Southern Yellow Pine, and hey, I'm a Southerner myself, why not.


----------



## mochoa

Al, nothing wrong with that, and it holds a board flat for face planing which is key.

TDog, those are some sweet benches. And, you bring up a good point to be discussed.

*Tool cabinet or no tool cabinet? That is the question. What say you guys?

I say No tool cabinet, I want the underside of my bench dedicated to keeping the top uncluttered, not for storage, just to throw my planes down there on the shelf. That or I would just want some low open cubbies down there that can hold planes and saws on edge etc, similar to what you see in the "The New Traditional Woodworker", you know the cubbies he has under his Joinery bench.


----------



## Sylvain

Something different:
The Moravian workbench

http://www.wkfinetools.com/tMaking/art/moravianBench/moravianBench-16.asp

The complete making is in 16 episodes starting here:
http://www.wkfinetools.com/tMaking/art/moravianBench/moravianBench-01.asp

(note the number at the end of URL; it makes it easy to jump to the desired episode by editing the URL in your browser)

The DIY tail vise is interesting (but a bit ugly).
see episodes 11 & 12


----------



## mochoa

Sylvain, I love that blog, I'm all about the Moravian benches, I love splayed legs.

I'm building something like this, not Moravian but spalyed legs.


----------



## mochoa

Oh and thanks for the links, I didnt know a new instalment of the blog was out yet.


----------



## TDog

I like the design details of the Moravian bench. But, I prefer the massive legs and square look of the roubo. This looks somewhat similar though. Any of these benches is of course great for woodworking as it all boils down to the woodworker and his preferences and needs. I am just getting started so I like the straight forward build in Schwarz book. I think it is a good challenge for me and the pine will keep me from "scratchin" up expensive wood or ending up with a lot of really nice wood for "more book shelves"

Professionals out there let us know about more of the true practicality of these workbenches. I love the fact that many in my family can build almost anything and make it look great using saw horses and an old solid door as a 
workbench which is on point. It's still the woodworker…not the bench at the heart of the issue. Loving to learn!


----------



## TDog

Mauricio

What is the background on the bench in your picture? 
It looks great. Antique?


----------



## Sylvain

Mauricio,
You have just launched a discussion about tool cabinet or not.
But we can discuss 2 subjects at the same time, don't we?

I was going to launch another one on another subject:

*"how deep does a workbench top really needs to be?"*
to fuel the discussion :
- Your own project if I am right is a 14" wide top.

- In its 2011 presentation of "the petite roubo" Chris Schwartz says something like : "the older I get, the lesser I want a deep bench" (third video). This is kind of funny as he has induced lots of people to build mega-workbenches. The "petite roubo" has a 20" deep top.

- The workbenches build for Paul Sellers "new legacy school for woodworking" have a top ''between 13" and 14" ''. Of course the back skirt is coplanar (same level and parallel) with the top. This is necessary for planing big panels.
see : http://www.newlegacywoodworking.com/blog/

- The Moravian workbench hereabove has a top 13" wide. Will Myers says :
"The 13in wide top works out well too. I kind of had reservations about the narrow work surface but in use I have noticed that *99% of the time I am only working on the front six inches*; so that concern was really unfounded. ". 
He has also taken care to have the back rim of the tool tray coplanar with the top.


----------



## TDog

Anybody using the bargain bench like me out there (on my workshop post). I have to build and glue up a flat top to go on it. The current one is not exactly "dead flat" to say the least. This is a better bench than I used to have…not one! LOL
Holler if ya hear me!


----------



## mochoa

yeah I found it just googleing pictures of antique benches, this one is French. Check out this site for some greap pics of antique benches.


----------



## TDog

I checked the website, the wording on the site was priceless, "as a nice sofa table" etc,
Different strokes for different folks I guess. They have a nice selection of workbenches just taking 
a quick glance. Just got me thinking about the needs of today's woodworking bench and changes made etc


----------



## mochoa

Well my OSB bench is 24" wide and the back half is almost always cluttered, I figure the tool tray will help alleviate that, along with an open space underneath to throw tools I'm not using at the moment.

The solid portion of my bench will be 14" but w/ tool tray it will be 24". I'm planning to make a plank that will cover the tray when needed. I'm also thinking of how to make the floor of the tray removable to use clamps on the back side of the bench when needed.


----------



## mochoa

I think looking at antique benches puts things in perspective too. 1: I dont see a lot of 4" thick tops, and 2: Most of them are made up of two thick slabs bolted together. It holds them together better back when hide glue was the norm and if you are using green wood you can continuously tighten the top up as the slab dries.


----------



## mochoa

And yeah, its a shame that these will be used as kitchen islands or sofa tables.


----------



## TDog

I am with you on the slabs for bench tops and bolts. The sturdier the better. Most of the times their workbenches, but every now and then there seats for the kids and a way to get the shop lights changed.


----------



## Sylvain

Mauricio,
I guess you know the two video of the "woodwrigth's shop" with Roy Underhill
season 2007-2008
French workbench part 1
http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/2700/2705.html
and part 2
http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/2700/2706.html


----------



## Bertha

Mauricio, I'm totally with you about the splay. right angles are a challenge for me, so that's out


----------



## donwilwol

Slabs for benchtops ☺


----------



## mochoa

Don, I hope her boyfriend deserves that slab. ;-) the pic after the BLO looks amazing!


----------



## donwilwol

Mauricio, he did all of the cutting welding on this.


----------



## Bertha

^I'd say he deserves a slab


----------



## KenBry

My Bench top….Progress such as it is… Milled 4/4 Brown hard Maple to 4" wide and average thickness of each board is 13/16" Total number of boards to laminate is 31. I dry clamped all the boards and achieved 25 3/4" width. Which in this case is good enough. With the glue I might gain an 1/8th inch.

In the clamps I clamped 6 boards and now 5 more. Total width is 9" so far. I have to stop at 12.5 so I can feed it through the planner. However I might just stop with this group and start a new section. This should make for 3 sections instead of 2. A little easier to manuver around till final glue up.

I have access to a 28" planer so this bad boy will get glued up and taken to it to flatten it.

Just thought I would share.


----------



## Bertha

^that's going to be one stout bench! I love those glue-up photos.


----------



## mochoa

Don, yeah, I'd say he deserves it.

Ken, that wood is really nice, your are well equiped with the clamps.


----------



## lj61673

I have clamp envy….


----------



## miles125

Can i just get an amen for 2 saw horses and a piece of plywood? Or its second cousin, 2 rubbermaid trash cans turned up side down and a piece of plywood?


----------



## mochoa

Miles, as long as your not making excuese and working the wood its all good! Did you see Bandits front porch railing bench? Amazingly versitile. http://lumberjocks.com/replies/419859


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## waho6o9

Amen and a hallelujah to one and all.


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## TDog

Amen miles125,

if you can work wood on it, its a workbench, now for the next project…

I got some clamp envy going on myself, I need more bar clamps for sure…but so many tools also,

Ok want, anyway…


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## donwilwol

Ken, that is going to be one massive bench. Your going to need a fork lift to move it. And a 24" plane. Really!! I'm in planer envy.


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## bandit571

That porch railing work bench now has "dogs"! IF I need a "dog-like" contraption to stop something from sliding around( or, off onto the ground) a simple drywall screw is driven in to about the head. i'll leave it about 1/2" or so proud. Stops things sliding away from me…...


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## bandit571

On the "Workbench to be made later" front: Brought in a beam that has been drying outside awhile. One side was a bit "buggy", so an axe was swung. I "planed" off most of the bugginess with just the axe. I intend to level what's left, saw down the middle to get two boards. These will get me the bottom strecthers. a look at the beam









Those are spikes sticking out from the side. another closer look?









this is the side that got the axe. still some bug holes. maybe too late for the BLO?


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## KenBry

Don, I said I have access to the big planer. It's on the base in their Woodshop. Getting this beast of atop there and surfaced… That's going to be a nut buster.


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## mochoa

Bandit, that beam would make a good top if you could cut it in half and glue them side by side.


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## mochoa

I love the slanted leg vises too. A couple of pics.


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## Bertha

^yeah baby. Look at the length on that top bench, Mauricio!!!!!!!


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## mochoa

Yaah that thing is long!


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## Mosquito

how's this for a "bench vise" 









Don't get distracted by the shavings shot, I'm talking about the pair of parallel bar clamps on their sides, clamped to a folding table, clamped to a deck beam lol I took off 1/4" of Red Oak with my #7 in that setup, no complaints


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## mochoa

ha ha ha, nice thinking Bandit. You hould make yourself a nice outdoor bench for that patio, I bet its nice getting to work outside.


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## KenBry

Well, I unclamped those 11 boards this morning, It's not as heavy as I expected but I do think it's at the max weight I can weild around the shop. So I think it will be a 3 section bench top till I am ready to compine the 3 sections.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ken - no pain, no gain! Really like what you're doing to create that workbench top!


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## bandit571

Lurking under my Porch-Bench….. Enough 2×8s for a benchtop! Seems the last renters here had TWO waterbeds that they left behind. Might even rip them, and glue them into a slab….

I'd have to go with the shorter lengths as a starting point for benchtop length, but both seem to be either queen, or king size beds. price? nada…..


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## KenBry

Bandit, just verify the type wood those are made from. Seems to me all I have ever seen for waterbed frames is Pine and or Venered MDF.


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## bandit571

These are pine 2xs..


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## BrandonW

Check out this wooden vise screw from Ebay. Looks like it's good quality and the you don't have the long waiting period. Al, I'm thinking of you, here.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unique-Hard-Maple-Vise-Screw-with-handle-/120906845535?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c269c0d5f


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## KenBry

I think I have a problem, I was planning on using the Benchcrafted hardware for my Tail vice. Didn't realize it was going to be a 6+ week wait. Now I need to build my bench dog rail so I can laminate it into my bench top.

What spaceing are you guys using from the front of your bench to the edge of your dog holes? I plan on going with square bench dogs that I can pop up from underneath.


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## lj61673

Ken,

You do not have to wait for you tail vise hardware to finish your top. After your top is laminated go ahead and rout out your dog holes, and glue your dog hole strip and spacer to the laminate. The front laminate can be added later. 
As for the dog hole spacing, its all a matter of preference, my dog holes are spaced approx 4" from the front of one to the front of another. My front laminate is 1-1/2" thick. The thickness of your front laminate is not critical as the template for the tail vise indexes off the inside edge of the front laminate.

Hope this helps.


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## KenBry

I was looking at the instructions\templates on Benchcrafted's website. It seems allot of the information on the bench dog rail is not provided in their hopes that you buy thier bench plans or sign up on Woodwhispers site to get the info. Not digging that…marketing ploy. That's probably not the case but it sure does get frustrating quick when you hit a roadblock.

The front laminate is going to be important for me as I am going to have it flush to my front legs. I'm not at a dead stop but things are definatly slowed due to their back log. Not their fault really, but it wasn't expected on my part… Piss poor planning on my part I guess.


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## mochoa

Ken do you use Google Sketchup? Its free and you can go onto 3d Warehouse and download drawings. I bet someone has sketched up their bench with benchcrafted hardware, you can pull the measurments from there.


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## KenBry

I have the program downloaded at home, unfortunatly I am at work and can't do that here. LOL But I am a real NOOB on Sketchup. Keep meaning to sit down and learn it some but just run out of time. I also tend to build by what I have in my head not on paper or plans. But since I was going to use their vise hardware I wanted the dimensions they call for. After watching the vieo on thier sight I thought the rail they built would do the job. Just looking for tidbits of info that arn't provided


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## mochoa

Yeah its frustrating at first. I dont have it down yet. The good thing is you dont need to learn it for this. just go onto 3d warehouse find a bench with the hardware, use the little tape measure button to pull jot down your dimensions. That is assuming they are correct… Hopefully there are a couple you can check for consistency.


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## mochoa

Here is a link to one with a benchcrafted wagon vise. 
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=42bc03109fd242c22489d4bc3e2d50d0&prevstart=0


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## lj61673

Ken,

This is not a project to attempt flying by the seat of your pants. Their website clearly states the lead times for their vises. Gotta plan accordingly if you want to use their components. Also, the templates and measurements are FREE in their FAQ section of the website. I belive they include all needed dimensions. Purchasing the plans is not required.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Kenbry asked: What spacing are you guys using from the front of your bench to the edge of your dog holes?

You'll get as many answers as respondents on this one, but I'll bite.

Some place holes very close to the front edge, as in a couple inches. Mine are further back, maybe four inches, on center. I haven't seen many go back more than that. Why did I do what I did? One, to (ultimately) allow me to use a pop-up dog of an end vise to hold work in the row of dogs, and two, to allow a board up to 8" wide to be fully supported by the benchtop if it's pinched in the center and being worked on it's face. Why 8"? That's as big as I could figure would need such support that I'd make (think drawer fronts of a dresser, for example).

Good luck, Ken!


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## lysdexic

Ken you have a PM.


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## RGtools

Smitty 2" is what I drilled my new set at…wonderful.

I yhave another dog hole related question….how the hell do you operate dogs in a Nicholsen type bench? Does the skirt get in the way or am I just overthinking this?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ryan, vise hardware aside (and that may be a big aside!), there's not a wrong answer. Nobody has ever insisted stuff be pinched on center in order for it to be held securely. Too far back, though, and it's more unstable and you're leaning to far over the bench.


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## lysdexic

I think the only variable that needs consideration is planing stock using a fence. Often you need the edge of the stock to hang over the edge of the bench top. Thus if you are planing narrow stock the dogs need to be foward enough to grip the piece and still have it hang over the edge. My 3 cents.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yep, good point.


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## KenBry

Scott, I wrote you back, Thanks very much

LJ, I appreciate the concern, but after reading allot of your posts, not going to bite and argue with you.

Smitty, I am really looking for a concensis and to hear the reasons some people did what they did. Your answer was spot on. Thanks!


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## lj61673

No argument. Do as you like. But you'll never learn a thing listening only to people that agree with you.
Good luck with your bench…


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## mochoa

Ken, my bad, I may have misread your question.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

For working narrower stock with fenced planes, a sticking board may be the answer. But Scott's concern is valid. One countermeasure is working edges first on wider stock and then ripping it to size after. Not always a choice though…


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## Bertha

Scott, I thought about that, too. Since you have square dogs, you could make several t-shaped dogs of different thicknesses to extend the reach for thin stock. The square shape would prevent twisting. I guess us round hole guys could span two of them using the same principle. 
.
It's a very interesting thought. I really enjoy running long rebates with the fence. That's a functionality that I'd like to keep.


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## mochoa

Have you guys seen this recent post by Schwarz? Its supposed to be a portable bench. 









http://blog.lostartpress.com/2012/05/02/a-workbench-for-the-shop-deprived/


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## Brit

Looks like a pile of doggy doo to me Mauricio. I stick with my Workmate.


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## KenBry

So I am getting my top of my bench into it's major parts and I am thinking.."Can I make it look pretty too?". What do you guys think? Should I put on some accent pieces? I have some 1/2" thick walnut that could make for some interesting accent pieces. Since nearly the entire bench is laminated Hard Maple tacking in some walnut might be kinda nice.


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## BrandonW

In my opinion, accents are nice as long as they are done in moderation. I personally don't like lots of opposing colors, but a piece here or there isn't bad. Of course, it's YOUR bench, Ken, so you make it they way you like it.

Mauricio, I'd trade my workmate for that thing. Sorry Andy.


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## mochoa

Yeah, I'd take that over a workmate!

Yeah, Ken it depends on your personal style, I've seen them with walnut laminated in and they look pretty nice but its a little to fancy for my tastes. I dont think it would be gaudy though so if you like it go for it. If you also did walnut end caps that might be a little too much IMHO…


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## Brit

That does it, I'm heading over to the 'Workmates of your Dreams' thread to snitch on Mauricio and Brandon. ;o)


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## donwilwol

Ken, if the pieces are integrated into the design, I'd say go for it. If they are add on's, not so much. Thats my taste. A work bench is a tool, its like a truck, I want my truck to look good, so some pin striping is ok, but if I throw a chunk of wood in the back, I don't want to wine about a few scratches.


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## lysdexic

Ken,

I agree. I am using contrasting woods but only on a macro level. All my vertical elements (ie legs, dead man, leg vice) are cherry. All horizontal elements are maple. I have resisted the temptations to add strips of decorative cherry in the maple top or maple dowels in the cherry draw bore pins. The only exception is that I used cherry for my end block and that is horizontal.

I am trying to keep it aesthetically simple and subdued.


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## KenBry

Yea, it's a tough call… When your out there in the garage (shop) milling wood and you see that Walnut sitting there you get creative. LOL 
I was thinking the front and back bench top edge and maybe an accent in the dog rail. Then maybe the deadman slide on the bottom rail. Last…The end cap…. Yea I know… Mauricio. LOL…


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## mochoa

I think walnut deadman and vise chop would look sweet. Thats what I'm going to do, I may do the wagon vise moving block in walnut too.


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## donwilwol

I guess I'm to much of a ***********************************. Benches are for beating on and pounding on. Walnut is for pretty things. To me a workbench is meant to get dirty and grimy, cleaned up and start over again. Save the walnut for something meant to be fondled and caressed.

I love the looks of a really pretty bench, but do you really want to strip your next bedrock 608 on something that sweat?

My 2 cents is, the way your making your bench it has to look good. From what we've seen so far, it can't not look good, so why over do it.

*********************************** rant over and out.


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## TechRedneck

Ken

Just popped over to check out your shop pics. You have some nice tools in there so I would think you should make a bench to fit the nrighborhood. A minor accent would look nice, but remember.. Once you build the bench it will be the most solid bench in the shop.. So, you are going to pound things on it and beat it a bit. That's what I ended up doing.

Don.. Good solid *********************************** advice. I try to keep the sloppy stuff on my first workbench. It has years of paint, grease,finishes, glue,solvents and a little *********************************** blood on it.


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## mochoa

I hear you on that but if you have another area for doing metal working and tool restoration and keep your bench for hand tool work I think you can make it a little nicer.


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## donwilwol

you're correct Mauricio. I just don't have that much restraint. I'm certainly not going to knock someone who does. It's just not me. We all work different. I love my bench, and some days its really tough love


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## KenBry

I'm just looking at some accents not the taj mal. . Lol. The walnut i have was dirt cheap and to be honest the amount of hours work it this, i figure take a little pride and make it shine too.


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## mochoa

Go for it Ken, put some racing strips in that mug! No judgments here. I'm sure it will look amazing.


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## lysdexic

I googled images for "roubo workbench" to get some ideas for you Ken but this is what came up…...sorry


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That is kinda sorry, ain't it?


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## lysdexic

Smitty, from a design perspective, are all those holes in the deadman necessary? Just wondering for when a make mine.

Ha! Just noticed the Workmate. So now you have two?


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## KenBry

The Dead man is a convience for sure. Stick a peg in and hold your piece at what ever angle you want. No need for the extra clap or anything to hold it. I plan on adding one to mine.


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## lysdexic

Ken, I noticed that you don't have "buddies" and therefore may not be aware of blog activity. I am currently doing a blog series on my bench build. Maybe seeeing some of my mistakes can help.


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## Brit

Er….What mistakes would they be then Scot?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Scott, whete have you been re: workmate? It was all the rage on the workamates of your dreams thread! Gotta catch up! 

Edit: Just checked to make sure you knew about the 'new' one, but now I get it… i never said it was my second one until later. The pic above catches the leg of my very pedestrian WM; the one that helped me build the bench! Ah, the workmate…

Hooles in the deadman… Gotta start with a more recent pic:










I drilled 'plenty' of 3/4" holes for pegs, then found a pair of 203 clamps that required 1" holes. Those I did to every other existing hole. And, bottom line, every other is plenty. Maybe the spacing could be a little more… Draw something on paper and see if you like the asthetic is what I'd suggest. Worst case, you can always add more holes. I added one at the top, for narrower stuff… And sometimes I clamp a block in the 203 and ride the board being worked on top of that, or even use the veritas hold down in the deadman. It performs well there, even in 1" thick deadwood…


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## Bertha

I'm kind of torn on the contrasting colors thing. I don't prefer them really wild but I can totally understand the desire to incorporate a "special" piece of wood you've been holding on to. For instance, I was given a nice slab of curly cherry, perfect for a chop. I guess I could resaw it, build a seat, etc. But seeing it every day on my bench would be nice. I'll have to resist the urge to include all those little special pieces around the shop.


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## lysdexic

My mistakes thus far:

-picking a cheaper stock with alot of grain reversal - flattening with a hand plane is going to be a bitch
-glue starving some of the laminate glue ups
-not going with a hidden design for the leg vise rollers. This will be a moot point with the new leg vise being offered by BC
-falling off the edge while planing the dog hole strip
-mis-drilling the the flange bolt holes in the end cap
-cutting the front slab to length too soon
-keeping the end cap a 1/32" large to be safe and to plane down to fit later. Unfortunately, I used this proud surface as my reference for laying out the tail vise….....this is the subject of my next blog and the mistake is not overcome yet.
-I just trimmed my dog block too short and had to glue on a spacer

These are the one that I know off and off the top of my head. I am sure that I will make and discover more!


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## Bertha

^couldn't you still hide the leg vise rollers? Even if you had to build the assembly outside the vise (like a block pegged with a dowel axle), then mortise it into the vise? I haven't decided yet how I'm going to do it.


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## KenBry

lysdexic, Thanks for the heads up on the Blog gonna start reading it today.

Techredneck, thanks for the compliments about the shop BTW 

I have decided to make my bench 72ish inches long so I am having to work around that length. Still in the process of gluing up all the rough pieces to rough size. I still need to create my front top face, 4 short cross rails and 2 front rails.

I want to get the top assempled and finished so I can use it to work on the legs and rails. I am working on the dog rail and other glue ups too.


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## mochoa

Scott, for me woodworking is becomming more and more about adapting to the situation and rolling with the punches (mistakes, materials, etc.). Its all a learning experience. The mistakes kind of add a little more gratification to the project, they are things that you can find creative ways to fix that no one may ever notice except for you.

Scott, are you getting the new BC Leg vise with the St. Peters Cross??? If so I'll be green with envy.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That BC vise w/ cross is very, very snazzy.

WARNING, SNARK AHEAD:

But is it really worth the $ and install complexity to avoid taking a knee to move an adjustment pin twice or maybe three times a week?


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## mochoa

Makes a lot of sense Smitty, Its not something you would have to adjust that often.

You know what I like and I'm surprised you don't see it more? It's the screw type parallel guide. It seem that you could just flick that with your foot pretty easily.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'd say my leg vise pin stays at the 3/4" setting 90% of the time, and I even cheat sometimes and leave it there when working the edge of a board that's up to 5/4" thick. Blasphemy, right? But the vise holds just fine. The other thing I'm not sold on w/ the cross adjuster mechanism is it's full frontal recess into the leg of the bench. Asthetically it just doesn't appeal to me.

A wood screw, perhaps? I know a guy that makes those… 

All of that said, I really, really do like the fact that BC is making uber-quality hardware for benches. If I'd do a wagon vise, their hardware would be a no brainer for me.


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## TechRedneck

Smitty

I agree with you. My pin on the leg vise is always on the 3/4" setting. With the wider stuff it is just as easy to use the quick release end vise. For everyday stuff I use the end vise 4 to one over the leg. But when I need that deep grip that leg is a must have in my book.

I used the leg quite a bit milling rough stock. Like a dumb ass I started (as I always have before turning to hand tools) to joint the edge of the board with the jointer. Then I went and pulled out the #6 and did the job in a few minutes using the leg vise and full length of the workbench. Finished with one or two passes on the power jointer and ripped to rough width on the table saw.

The hand tool bench and hand plane actually saved time. Same goes for twisted and cupped boards. Jack plane and right to the power planer. Hybrid baby !


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## lysdexic

Smit et Al: after looking a t Smitty's bench I was struck by the look of the full length chop. This can be done like this one but I cut may chop to length already. I could make another.










versus…..


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## lysdexic

These are small variables to consider but if you are going thru rthe trouble…..................


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## Brit

I'll tell what I like Scot and that's the bullnose edge that Jameel put on the top edge of his chop instead of the big chamfer that you see in the split-roubo photos.


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## mochoa

You got a picture of that Andy?


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## bandit571

A few random thoughts on my a-building bench: ( and a real Smack down of benches)

Heavy, must be heavy. I don't won't something that will walk across the floor faster than me…

Simple: I am not building a Pie-ano here, just a place to do a lot of handplaning work.

CHEAP ( but hell for stout) build: Budget, budget, budget. It do get in the way of things. Found wood is my friend. Clamps from un-used pony clamps, set up to use a "floor flange" a plumber would use. Uses a short "nipple' ( keep it clean, guys, NOT THAT KIND of nipple) into the bench, with the "Pony" screwed onto it. Might drill and tap the face of the "Pony" to accept a wooden face.

Deadmans, wagonvises, endcaps???? All I need is for it to hold a board still long enough for me to plane it a bit. And, maybe at the end of a long day, allow me to take a short "Power Nap" on top of it.

I DO have a "fancy Work Bench', I'm using it right now.









Not quite a Workmate, nor a Roubo, but it will do a job for me. I also got to use most of my handtools building this one, that should count for at least a couple "points', right?


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## BrandonW

Smitty: I'd say my leg vise pin stays at the 3/4" setting 90% of the time, and I even cheat sometimes and leave it there when working the edge of a board that's up to 5/4" thick. Blasphemy, right? But the vise holds just fine. The other thing I'm not sold on w/ the cross adjuster mechanism is it's full frontal recess into the leg of the bench. Asthetically it just doesn't appeal to me.

I agree 100% on the leg pin--I just keep it at 3/4 and dont move it unless I'm doing over 5/4s. It really hold the wood tightly.

Now about the cross leg vise-I love it. Sorry Smitty.


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## Brit

Here you go Mauricio.


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## mochoa

;-) Thanks Andy, in case I couldn't distinguish one from the other, you put a little bubble on them. Very helpful.

For my taste, I really like the way Smitty's is beveled on 3 sides:









I like the general shape of the BC chops above though.


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## donwilwol

i rounded my top, left the sides square, but tapered


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## mochoa

How about chop thickness? The BC pics above look like they are are laminated to 4".


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Andy, kudos on the thought ballons! Very nice.

I have no idea what you'd need to clamp with such ferocious pressure via leg vise that a 4" chop would be warranted. It may be they did that on the pics for scale. As in, a normal chop possibly makes the BC wheel look big / obtuse? A big stretch there, perhaps…

Bandit, nice smack down! You know, we're alot alike in our 'cheapness,' really. That may be one of the reasons the cross adjuster doesn't appeal to me; if I could have justified the cost in my mind, it may have been beautiful. I can't, therefore it's not. 

Nice leg vise, Don!


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## Brit

I know that as woodworkers making our own workbench is kind of a right of passage, but I gotta tell ya guys, if I had the money I would have no qualms about ordering one of these from Richard McGuire. Sex on 4 legs IMO. Look at the handwheel on that leg vise. If this bench isn't the dog's gonads, I don't know what is.


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## donwilwol

Andy, ssshhhhh, the workmate can hear you!!!


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## BrandonW

Let the workmate hear. That workmate is going to get replaced one of these days--I'm praying for you Andy! 

I do liek that bench, but mostly for that ginormous hand wheel and the beech. I'm a sucker for beech.


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## lysdexic

Brit, depending on how you value your time, buying one of those is probably more economical.

I agree, that is a fine, fine bench. The rectangular, simple chop -noted. The rectangular, simple deadman - noted. Almost shaker-esque. I could do without the brass plaque front and center.


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## Brit

Sod the workmate Don. When I was finishing off the labyrinth game, the top fell off. I said to the wife, I think its a sign! She told me to fix it and stop being stupid. Pray harder Brandon!!!

Scot - Aesthetically, the RM design appeals to me more than the BC split-top. I think the proportions are better. You already know I like the square legs, I also love the hardware which I think is on a par with, if not better than BCs. I totally agree about the brass plaque. I would ask if he could put it on the back of the top, not the front. The only thing I would change is to have a bit more shape to the deadman. That said, I do think it is the best commercial bench being made today anywhere in the world and for once it is in England. I don't get to say that about many things related to woodwork these days.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Beautiful, Andy!


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## donwilwol

Andy, I hate to see the workmate go, but would love to see your new work bench too. We're all pulling for you!!


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## lysdexic

What say you to the economy of buying one? If I remember correctly the RM benchs were $4-5k. I think without exaggeration that I will have 200 hours in my bench. Hell, I don't know - 100 hours? plus materials and hardware.

When you think about it the price is not crazy.


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## SamuelP

I like your wife Brit.


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## Brit

Let's see, the RM Roubo costs £2350. Sam you can have my wife for £2500. I need some change for bench accessories. What will you do with your wife?


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## bandit571

The main "down side" i see to a new bench….. I may have to give up views like this









for a "view" like this????









Which would YOU choose???

Ps: I also like this one….









Oh well…...


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## lysdexic

@Mauricio - the new vise from BC is not supposed to be available until the fall. I don't know that I want to wait that long. Plus, I dig what you, TRN, and the Smitster are laying down about the pin. It really isn't a big deal. That being said: it is uber cool, there is a discount to those who just ordered the current vise (I fall into that category), PLUS I could sell Al the current one so he will quit his bitching about a wooden screw!

Also, concerning mistakes. They always happen. It is how you react to them that means something. They happen all the time in surgery as well. There is nothing magical about surgery. It is just a craftsman performing a series of operations to obtain a final construct. The unexpected happens. On a conceptual level there is not much difference between building a box and replacing a shoulder. The words you wrote are quite applicable to life in general.

Cheers


----------



## waho6o9

From fellow LJ, BrettMcD.

Super cool workbench.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ I like that insight…. Thanks, Scott.


----------



## lysdexic

Thanks Smit. What is really important is what is going on between Andy and Sam! What do you think? Think Sam will take him up on it? Ohh, this is getting so exciting!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm betting 'ole Sam is Mum on the topic from this point.


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## BrandonW

Sam is scarily partial toward anyone who likes the workmate. It makes me a bit uneasy.


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## woodworm

Love this thread or "threat" to me, coz I do not own beautiful workbench.
Keep posting yours dear jocks!


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## terryR

Lucky for me I found this thread yesterday…am reading Christopher Schwarz's book on benches now…planning for mine later this year…probably french in design…

You guys are showing some awesome benches! I LOVE that RM bench you posted above, Andy…looks like the leg vise is attached to the table with a hinge??? Or are my eyes tired? WOW, cannot imagine the cost of shipping on so much beech!!! But, if one can swing that sorta cash, I see nothing wrong with the purchase! It lets you get right down to business with other woodworking stuff…

I sorta like Bandit's back porch railing/bench…built in dust collection and fresh air!  And, I bet it's more stable than a quickie ouside table like I work on these days. Hmmm…maybe I should build a rail around the porch on me shop??? 30 feet long…vises built in…or maybe a row of vintage workmates bolted to the concrete?


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## Brit

No hinges there Terry and I can't for the life of me understand what you think looks like one. I think we need a bubble to point it out, but don't let Mauricio see it.


----------



## KenBry

Terry, that bench Andy posted doesn't have a hinge there. It's an extension that slides in and out of the support leg. The device allows the front board/vice to remain parallel to it's clamping surface.


----------



## mochoa

I would never spot it without the bubble.


----------



## terryR

Oh…I see it better now…finished my 2nd cup of coffee.


----------



## Brit

Mauricio - Is there any more progress on your bench. Not that I'm rushing you or anything, but I enjoy your updates.


----------



## BrandonW

I think he's just referring to the parallel guide at the bottom of the vise chop (like Ken noted).

Terry, when you start building your bench, don't discount beech-at least look into it. At my local lumber dealer the European steamed beech was less than red oak and so that's what I used for mine.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/59460


----------



## BrandonW

Sorry about that last post-it was delayed.

Andy, we need to rush Mauricio! I want to see more his unique bench.


----------



## Brit

Yeah that's what I like about his build. He's a pioneer, who thinks outside the box. In fact Mauricio would probably say "Who says it has to be a box?"


----------



## mochoa

ha ha ha, thanks for the enthusiasm guys. I have been working on it but I'm kind of running in place right now.

I ran my partially hand carved screw through my router jig and trashed it. So then I was torn between buying a few more dowels and wasting more money on trial and error or buying a lathe and making my own. So I recently bought and old Craftsman Lathe that has the length I needed and am now trying to teach myself how to turn. I did make a mini baseball bat out of firewood the other day so I'm making progress, I have a chunk of fire wood I'm going to turn into a dowel soon and give it another go with the router jig.

Pics:
I turned this:









Into This:









I got slightly better results when starting from scratch.









So I can make wooden screws right now but it aint pretty.


----------



## waho6o9

No doubt it's a challenge Mauricio. These are 1.25 diameter poplar and the nuts are an exotic hardwood. 
For the most part it works well, but it is tight in a few spots in the beginning threads. Oops.


----------



## mochoa

Pretty cool Wahoo, how are you makiing yours? Are you following Carters videos?

Mine are 2"


----------



## Bertha

^Mauricio, you are seriously on to something, brother!
Waho, yours are looking fantastic! Is that a paduak nut?


----------



## waho6o9

Could be Al, appreciate the compliment. 
Rock on.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Al, I'm getting close for sure, I just need to fine tune the depth of the router bit.

Wahoo, I like the hex nut, nice touch. What are you going to do with them?


----------



## waho6o9

Thanks Mauricio." What are you going to do with them?" Practice and make more of them.
Maybe use one for a leg vise. 
I'm definitely going to make more, it's not as easy as it looks.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mauricio will be thinking outside the box if he paints his workbench… ;-)


----------



## Bertha

*I'm definitely going to make more, it's not as easy as it looks.*
.
It looks pretty friggin HARD to me!


----------



## waho6o9

Beall makes a tap and die set for woodworkers and one has to set the depth correctly, major pain as a few thousands off makes for a poor thread, other than that it is pretty straight forward as to making them.


----------



## Sylvain

It is difficult to keep pace with the activity on this tread.
I have liked the discussion about the leg vise.

I wander what is the benefit of the BC cross vise? If you look at the video, it seems the jaws have extra thickness at the top, so what would be the point of having a perfect parallelism?
With this extra tickness, a door or a large panel would be pinched only at the top so it would not prevent vibration which for me seems the justification for a leg vise (used without the bottom pin).

For smaller parts, I would think C. Schwarz is right : "The parallel guide is a strip of wood at the bottom of the leg vise that prevents the vise's chop from spinning like a propeller. It also creates the vise's leverage and makes it pinch your work right at the top of the chop."
The second sentence implies that it must not be parallel.
On one of his latest blog, Paul Sellers speaks about "toe-in" of the vise. I am not quite sure what it means, not being a native English speaker.

Seing that in practice the pin is not often moved, the cross vise seems to be a solution to a false problem.
If one doesn't want to stoop, what about an alternative system with a rack and a sliding window operated from above?


----------



## donwilwol

Did you see this

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/37767


----------



## mochoa

Don, that thing is awesome and has Andy's name writen all over it.

Andy, thats what you need for working in the backyard, I mean, the garden.


----------



## BrandonW

Actually, that is exactly right, Mauricio. Andy that thing is 100 times more awesome than a workmate. Go for it Andy.


----------



## donwilwol

I was thinking of Andy too. If I wasn't on my phone I'd have posted it on the workmate thread.


----------



## Sylvain

About narrow benches,
have a look here :
http://www.closegrain.com/2012/04/woodnet-roubo-try-square-get-together.html
look at the picture under which it says : "Unfortunately the light was poor here, but this is Jim sawing down the cheek lines of his bridle joint" 
You can copy the picture and enhance it with your favourite picture processor.


----------



## mochoa

I would put a flip up sawing stop on that thing.


----------



## mochoa

It would seem like he would have a problem clamping a door on edge because of the front legs splaying outward.


----------



## mochoa

Actually that would also be a nice bench for working on the back porch on nice days.


----------



## mochoa

Bandit, make one of those out of preasure treated SYP for the front porch, the best of both worlds.


----------



## KenBry

I LIKE that little bench. Andy, that would be great for you ;-)


----------



## Bertha

^d'y'all see the little plastic work-a-mate dogs? lol


----------



## BrandonW

Andy, how's the bench coming? I assume you've seen this picture and have already begun work on it!

Yes, Al, those workmate dogs look a little out of place.


----------



## Brit

I will be building a little bench for the garden to replace the Workmate, but it won't be like that. IMO the top is not thick enough or wide enough, the legs are too thin and splayed ain't good in my book, you just keep tripping over them, like the workmate. I also think three legs are better than four because it will never wobble. Also, it needs to be much heavier. I've had enough of trying to plane whilst holding the bench in place with my foot.  I'll try and get something drawn in Sketchup after the street party is over.


----------



## mochoa

a 3 legged bench? I'm intrigued.


----------



## KenBry

3 legged bench


----------



## bandit571

Bandit been working on a BENCH!!! Afterall, the Pole Barn Woodshop gets used from time to time…

Split the beam I was planing, since the tablesaw couldn't do it. Use a splitting maul, and a 10 pound sledge to split the beam along a sawkerf.









Then the handplanes took their turns









until a board ( I had two to do) looked like this









Looked so good, and still almost two inches thick, I decided to make a top with them. needed a couple extra boards though, ah, design element coming up!









A hunk of pine down the center. A short piece of oak in the back, with the empty space to be a tool well, works for me. Even tried out the #80 on the surface









So, top is in the clamps, need some legs for it to sit on, right? Need to chop out for some stretchers, as well. I grabbed the saws, a big old framer chisel and started to saw and chop things out









That is the top one, and I needed a lower one









Four 4×6s later, time to put something together









Then, set things up, just to see where I'm at









Well, it's a start, anyway. Kind of tired, I even put in a 4 mile "walk-about", and came home with a $1 Disston/Porter No. 10 coping saw









Busy day…..


----------



## mochoa

That will work Bandit! Looks pretty stout, nice chunky legs.


----------



## lysdexic

Bandit, I love it! You might want to consider some long stretchers at the bottom of the legs. Also consider this, with a few more boards, you could glue / face laminate them for a nice thick top.


----------



## bandit571

I have some pine 2xs to wrap around the outside edges. The bottom shelf will also be a might thick. Still have to cut a "horn" for one end. That way, I can plane the edges of some boards. It would sure beat clamping a board to my tablesaw fence, like I had to tonight.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Nice work Bandit!


----------



## Bertha

Nice job, Bandit! 
.
Does anyone own one of those jawhorses? I'm intrigued but they're on the $$ side.


----------



## BrandonW

Looking good, Bandit! I really like its rustic appearance. Scott made a good suggestion about the longer stretchers.


----------



## mochoa

Bandit you hav eyourself an instant antique there. Resembles this one:








http://www.1stdibs.com/furniture_item_detail.php?id=605222


----------



## BrandonW

I'm just curious what people use to pound on their holdfasts. I've been using an orange dead-blow mallet because I don't want to ruin one of my wooden mallets. I also didn't think hitting them with a metal hammer is ideal either, although they are steel-not cast iron-so I doubt a metal hammer would do that much damage. I'm open to suggestions.


----------



## lysdexic

Good question


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

My planishing hammer…


----------



## DanKrager

Some really neat benches here. This one is very different. I posted about it in "my shop".

http://s837.photobucket.com/albums/zz292/kragerd/?action=view&current=2631b7b5.pbw
Dan


----------



## mochoa

Brandon and anyone else who has used beech, would beech make good wood for wooden screws? I've only seen them made of Hard Maple or Hickory. I know Oak is not a good choice because it splits pretty easily along the grain, is beach similar?


----------



## mochoa

Just found the answer to my question.








Made of Beechwood.


----------



## lysdexic

The top is officially done.


----------



## waho6o9

The top is officially kick ass Lysdexic. what a beautiful top. I like it.


----------



## Brit

Stunning Scot, simply stunning!!!


----------



## KenBry

Scott, That's some great work, I like the adaptation of the workmate legs, very unique and you can fold it up and stand it in a corner when not in use. 
LOL


----------



## BrandonW

Dan, thanks for the link-- that bench has no top. 

Mauricio, I think Beech would work well for a screw-I don't think it'd tear out like oak. Thinking of getting some?

Scott, that bench top is OKAY. It's not like it elicits any substantial emotional response from me or anything. ;-) No seriously, great work! You're almost there.


----------



## donwilwol

outstanding bench top Scott!


----------



## mochoa

Brandon, I was kicking around the idea of different woods that would work, and since I dont always follow the crowd I was thinking what could be used instead of hard maple. ;-) And as you know we can get beech pretty cheap. Its amazing, they used that wood for everything back in the days.

Scott, that thing is awesome, slap a board down and give the wagon vise a go! I cant wait to see some shavings on that thing.


----------



## mochoa

duplicate.


----------



## lysdexic

Thanks all. I got my wife to come take a look last night. I was visibly proud of my condor tails. I demonstrated the smooth action of the tail vise. Her response:

"How much did that wheel thingy cost?"

We are alone.


----------



## terryR

Scott, that is an impressive piece of craftmanship!

After all the hours you've spent on it, try to ignore your wife's comments…I can hear mine asking the exact same question! Wife's are from a different planet…they don't understand the pleasures that result from hand work for some reason???

"What's that, Honey? Yes, dear, your planter boxes are nearly completed…"


----------



## Brit

Amen to that Terry.


----------



## donwilwol

Terry said it. I built my house (and countless others), rebuilt rifles, tools, steeples, motors, computers, you name it. I once restored a CJ7 down to the frame. I've built almost every piece of furniture in my house. My wife won't let me change the oil in her car for fear I'll screw it up. Note my truck has o er 80,000 miles and I'm the only one to ever change the oil.


----------



## affyx

Lysdexic that top is amazing!

When my wife asks me those questions I comment on how nice her new shoes are and ask to see her Kohls/Target/JCPenney bills (it works 12.7% of the time, but it's something)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

My wife didn't bring any hand tools to the marriage, but is pretty good when it comes to recognizing what's important to me and responding accordingly. It helps that her mother has been a living exhibit on what not to say, albeit in a very mild way. Show her a project that means the world / is the latest accomplishment, and if she doesn't like it, will say, "Now, is it going to stay like that?"

She's done it often enough that my wife has picked up what to say. Thinks like, 'looks good,' and 'lots of work in that,' and 'how does it work / how you gonna use it?' My charming and beautiful wife is a keeper.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Scott, that top is simply too friggin' nice to have in that shop of yours. I'll bet you say "Wheeeee!" every time you spin that BC handle, too. My sincerest congrats on your accomplishment, it's outstanding! Well done.


----------



## Bertha

Outstanding benchtop, Scott!!!!
Have your workmates ever heard the expression compressional asphyxia?


----------



## RGtools

I am so glad you went with mildly contrasting woods. Sublty goes such a long way to making a lasting Peice of…well anything really.

Can't wait to see you build the base.


----------



## lysdexic

Smitty said: _"Scott, that top is simply too friggin' nice to have in that shop of yours."_

Well, I am not quite sure how to interpret that. I will assume that Mr. Smitty is busting on my shop. Is it the paint color, Mr Smitty?. Me thinks that you don't like pumpkin. Maybe I should change the color to lilac or sea foam green. How about I paint the bench pumkin, would you then be satisfied Mr. Smitty?


----------



## lysdexic

Al, I do have scrap pieces that sapn to the metal aspects of the Workmates because the MDF tops were sagging quite a bit. You can see them peeking out in the pics.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I actually like the pumpkin color! Really! 

It was a compliment to the benchtop, absolutely! Along the lines of, 'Send it to me so I can test it out for you,' which was another option for commenting that I thought of but didn't use.

The precision is incredible, and more that I'm capable of, I think. An absolute Wow! to the nth power, Scott! Can't wait to see it on it's own set of legs, helping you create some fabulous stuff.


----------



## lysdexic

Just messing with ya. I thought you were trying to get me bowed up. I usually don't get all bowed up until Saturday nite. Don't make me drive out there. :^)


----------



## lysdexic

Oh, by the way it is not pumkin. It is terra cotta. :^)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

But Al says it's pumpkin… who do I believe?? Hmmmm…...

- oh, and -

C'mon over, just remember to bring that benchtop with you!


----------



## donwilwol

Wow, a real workbench smack down!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The Pumpkin vs. The Doorstop… could be interesting!


----------



## donwilwol

I don't know. If he can carry that bench top I'd recommend not messing with him.


----------



## Bertha




----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^Hah!


----------



## donwilwol

Is that Al and Steak in the pumpkin patch?


----------



## lysdexic

A question for the esteemed panel: *Workbench height vs outfeed table*

Givens:
-with the space in my shop my workbench will have to go adjacent to the table saw (as it currently is in the pics) and thus has to be low enough for the miter guage to clear to top.
-the bottom of the miter slot is 34" 
-the TWW split Roubo plan calls for a finished height of 35" 
-my 5th metacarpal joint (little finger knuckle) is at 35" 
- to place my palm on a flat surface while standing = 35.5 "

Solutions:
- shorten the workbench legs so that final height is 34" 
---if I do that *and* if I get another shop with more room in the future, I can put spacers under the workbench feet. What is the preferred way to do this?
- go with a workbench height of 35" and roll the tablesaw up onto 3/4 - 1" sheet good. I've don't know if this is a good practice.

Now is the stage in my workebnch build that I have to commit.

Thoughts?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

raise the table saw is my vote.


----------



## lysdexic

Thanks Smitty.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Easy to lower the bench later, doubt you will based on the #s. TS no issue being a little high, doncha think?


----------



## Brit

I'm with Smitty. Get the bench right for you and do whatever you have to do to the TS. After all, you don't really need that noisy thing now you've got your bench.


----------



## alba

Great subject I missed it before.

Lots of ideas

jamie


----------



## bandit571

Getting the skirt board loaded up today, hope to install them this after noon. Maybe a BIG dovetail at the corners???

vises: That is on the "Someday I'll…" list for now. Will make do with a couple pipe clamp ends and a few 1/2" holes drilled. A LegVise???? Hmmmm, I have an old floor flange, might mount it up inset on a leg, and a long enough pipe nipple to reach through everything, add a Pony Clamp end, and drill it for a couple screws. Add a 2x as a moving clamp jaw, add a fixed one to the bench side, and we have liftoff….

Maybe this trip out there, I'll remember to take a box of woodscrews along, incase i just might need them. Pegged Joints? Well, i DO have a lathe, and some harwood stock just laying around, doing nothing. I could turn a few pegs, all the while singing about Peggy Sue?


----------



## donwilwol

+3 on raising the Ts.


----------



## DanKrager

4 on raising TS.
I found in our local hardware some heavy duty SA rubber pads 4" square. If you could find something like that to stick under the appropriate size blocks with shallow recesses for saw feet, your saw would be very stable and perhaps quieter.
BTW, that is a gorgeous top. And your wife's comment was HILARIOUS!
Dan


----------



## bandit571

making SOME progress on that LOW budget bench…









another view, tool well









Used the planes ON the top, trying to get a flat area









even TRIED some dovetails









Next trip out to the shop, bottom stretchers! I still have two 2×10x72" to use up.


----------



## donwilwol

bandit, I love the wide skirt. That's going to be a fine looking bench sir!!


----------



## lysdexic

Bandit, now that I see what you are doing with wide skirt and screws into the legs, I think that extra rigidity may make the long stretchers a non-issue.


----------



## BrandonW

Bandit. Those aprons look nice and beefy. Looks very English.

Scott. 35" sounds tall to me, but you must be a tall person.


----------



## jusfine

Scott, I am sure you know this, but keep the bench as high as is comfortable for you to work on.

I also vote for raising the TS.

I am 5'9" on a good day, and the sawhorses I used to make to cut rafters (yes, we actually did cut them) on were 38" high, as that was the most comfortable for me.

Looks great by the way…


----------



## mochoa

Raising the TS is a good idea, I hadent ever thought of that.

Scott you must be pretty tall because I'm 6'2" and my 5th metacarpal joint is at 32".

Bandit, the bench looks pretty sturdy with the apron, and if you are already planing on it you should have a good idea if it needs the stretchers. Is that a space for a futur wagon vise?


----------



## lysdexic

I am not tall. I just have rhizomelia.


----------



## bandit571

Actually, that hole is for a tool well. I still have to cut up a "bench hook' thingy" for one end. I can then use it to hold one end while I clamp the other end. I can then edge plane all I want. There still might be a bottom stretcher thing going in. Need a bottom shelf, right? I'm still working at a "Nickolson-style" sort of bench. If I notch for them ugly legs, I'll have a nice wide bottom shelf, just to sit my handplanes on.

Since this is being done on the "cheap' anyway, pipe clamps may get used, until a holdfast or two shows up at my door, wanting a new home. Since mine are the 1/2" type, a few holes of the right size won't mess things up too badly. Might have to get a couple short lengths of black pipe, and a floor flange or two.

Leg vise: Still working on a design for it. legs i have making things a bit difficult. There is just enough room under the aprons to add a floor flange, and then come through the jaw part with a short 1/2' pipe. The screw part of a pipe clamp can then be attached to the jaw. One large hole for the pipe to come through, and drill two holes in th pipe clamp end. Couple of screws to attach it to the jaw…..

Still a work-in-progress. Length is about ~ 57-1/2" . I'll have to check on the rest of the measurements, seems to be just the right height for my 5'11" body. Pole barn floors, gotta love them. A shim or two will keep things from rockin'n'rollin around the shop.


----------



## Bertha




----------



## bandit571

Hard when one is hung like a Hamster?? And, still sliding down that slippery slope?


----------



## Bertha

^Oh Snap!!!!


----------



## KenBry

I asked for alternates to the benchcrafted hardware since they arn't manufacturing at the moment and someone was kind enough to post this brand http://www.hovartercustomvise.com/home. Looks seriously usable and a good alternate to the benchcrafted hardware. Just thought I would share.


----------



## lysdexic

Ken,
I dont know of any alternatives or I would tell you. I am not trying to apologize for BC but when i bought mine it stated that there is a 6 week wait. My hardware arrived in 4. I see from there website that Jameel is changing out the design and probably winding down his older inventory.

Try ordering a saw from Bad Axe. That wait was advertised as 12 weeks but ended up much, much longer.

Try ordering some chisels form Lie Neilsen. That took 16 weeks.


----------



## Bertha

^I actually don't have any beef with the wait times on these boutique items. That's an uncommon stance for me, as I have beef with a 2 minute wait for a Taco Bell Subway sandwich (that was just to see if you're actually reading this post). I just count my blessings that dudes are out there putting the stuff out.


----------



## SmoggieInCanada

Love these workbenches lots of different ideas.

A woodworking magazine here in canada just produced a mag with a few different designs of bench it seemed like a good read for beginning woodworking. I've got the supplies for the first bench in the mag just need to finish this basement decorating project now!

Still looking at all these benches for modification inspiration, one mod i am going to use is to put the bench on castors and use the off cuts to make a smaller one for my router table.


----------



## KenBry

In this case the idea is that there is a wait is a huge disapointment for me. The bench build is one of those things that I do what I can afford to do at a time.

Step 1. Buy lumber because I found a great deal on it. Build it based off using selected hardware. 
2. Buy hardware when I can afford it. (wait…wait. Wait…grrrrrrrr….wait )

I just am concerned that since they took the items off the site because of them redesigning them, that my pre cut items will not be right anymore either. Fortunatly I discovered they have an issue just before I started cutting. Now since they are "redesigning" only the handle I should be fine.. But nothing stops them from doing what they want and I could be left high and dry with my top cut for hardware that won't work. So since they pulled it and i have no idea what they are going to end up with. My bench build is stopped if i choose bench crafted hardware.


----------



## Bertha

While you're all here…Has anyone seen either plans or a photo of a wagon vise/tail vise using a large wood screw? I see shoulder vises all the time but I'm wondering how I'm going to execute my wagon or tail, given that the wood screw (Lake Eerie) is so large. Any help appreciated.


----------



## mochoa

I've only seen it with smaller wooden screws.

















I guess you could use any size screw but you would have to have really big end caps if your screw is 2.5". I think in any case you would have to have the endcap itself threaded, I dont know how you would do it with a seperate nut.


----------



## mochoa

You know I'm all about the wooden screws but I'm going with a steel Lee Valley for my wagon.


----------



## Bertha

^yeah, I'm still tossing it all around. I considered simply putting a doghole in the nut itself and let it travel. I'll still have to garter within the end cap, so It's going to have to be big either way. I'm in this far, I'm going for it


----------



## Mosquito

lol Al, I just have the vision of you tightening your giant wood screw until the board bows and goes flying off the bench, in a comically animated way…

Edit - If I were any good at drawing anything, I'd totally sketch it up for you to hang on your wall ;-)


----------



## Bertha

^lol, Mosq! I'm thinking that I might end up going with a traditional tail. I've always admired them but it'll be a significant amount of work.
.


----------



## mochoa

That might be your best bet with that screw Al. But I think it looks a lot more complicated than it is, its basicaly a 3 sided box right? Also, it looks like a lot of fun joinery work.


----------



## Bertha

^yeah, Mauricio, it might actually be EASIER to retrofit a bench. I'm kind of over the idea of using my prefabbed benchtops. I think I'm going all fir. I just want to glue the stupid thing up square, then decide how I want to proceed. I want to START or else I'll just waffle for another year or two. The fir is so cheap that I won't hesitate to cut right into it. Those maple panels are another thing and I'd be just praying that there's nothing hiding in there like a void, biscuit, domino, etc. Those slabs would make two really nice glue-up tables, lol


----------



## mochoa

3 6×6's glued together and you have a complete top. Have you found a source for Fir or are you going with that mail order place? I wouldnt expect any surprises in that maple top though.


----------



## Bertha

^you're probably right about the maple. I've been just buying up all the dfir at Lowes everytime I go. Out of 20 boards, there are usually two good ones. They're like $10 for an 8-foot 4×4". I calculated that I'd need 18 if I'm remembering correctly. $180, can't beat that with a stick.


----------



## AnthonyReed

You are going to make Lance proud Al.

The gathering expeditions to Lowes are what i am going to dread.


----------



## KenBry

How to square the end of the bench top? Later this wek I shouLd be ready to square off mybench top ends. The question is what method?

My bench top is 72" long, presently 21" wide and 4" thick. Final width will be 24"

The only one i can come up with is a circular saw, cut top and bottom. Based off a straight edge that is square across the top. I am open to any other ideas too.


----------



## KenBry

Double post


----------



## donwilwol

That's how i would do it Ken, assuming you can still flip the top. The other option would be cut the top with athe circular saw and finish with a hand saw.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ken, that's what I did. Had to take a huge number of passes, lowering the blade each time, to get it done too. Then dressed it with a block plane, which was a terrible PITA. All wine and roses, my friend. Good luck!


----------



## bandit571

for you'all's viewing pleasure:









Took it for a "Test Drive" tonight. Cost? One pipe clamp, now i have to go out and BUY ( BUY????) two more pipe clamps. One to replace this one, since i trashed it. The other? Well…









Stay tuned…....


----------



## bandit571

Cost to replace those "vise parts"? About $10….

A couple Pony style pipe clamps, and some 1/2" pipe.

Plane down a slab of Beech, or two….

Maybe two hours of fun in the shop.


----------



## mochoa

Bandit, you'll apreciate this. Check out this guys home made quick release vise. 
Fastforward to about 3:20min.


----------



## donwilwol

I bought the Ohio Toll Co catalog from 1910. I thought this would interest this crowd.










Maple.
Note the cost. Between $12-$14.


----------



## AnthonyReed

$14 …. wow.

You could almost get a cup of coffee with that now.


----------



## Bertha

I can't stop wanting a shoulder


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

235 pounds of pure fun…

Al, I have my cabinetmaker's bench (like the above) at my dad's place… you want that I should snap some pics underneath? It's got the 'big wood screw' shoulder vise on it, might be helpful. Let me know.


----------



## Bertha

^YES! It wouldn't take much for me to go shoulder.


----------



## Sylvain

Al
(For those who might not already be aware)
The wagon vise needs a left hand thread. See the picture provided by Mauricio. Otherwise you have to turn the handle counter clockwise to clamp.

The traditional tail vise needs a "standard" right hand thread.

If you have already ordered the screw….


----------



## mochoa

Great point Sylvain! I wonder if LV sells their steel screws with reverse pitch?


----------



## mochoa

Progress last night
!


----------



## Bertha

Sylvain, thank you!!!! It took me a few minutes to wrap my head around that but you're right. I asked around and most of the guys seem to just turn the handle backward. If it drives me crazy, I'll have to admit that you warned me Who needs reverse pitch LN when you've got Mauricio!!!


----------



## mochoa

Regarding the screw threads, if your screw is stationary and only the "wagon" moves then yes it would need to be reversed. But If the screw moves in and out with the "wagon" like it does with a traditional tail vise then you can use a standard screw. The only issue with that is that you will have that big screw protruding when the vise is completely open (probably not often) but again thats the same thing that is going to happen with the tail vise.

Al, just make traditional tail vise, you know you want to.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Al, I hope to get some pics posted Th evening of the 'traditional tail' vise. Above, below, with stick rule in the pictures for some dimensions…


----------



## Bertha

^I know, I know Plus you get to make that cool fingerjointed box After looking around the web for a while, the wood screw wagon is pretty uncommon. When present, it's usually a much smaller screw. The traditional tail is pretty well established. At least for a few hundred years or so


----------



## mochoa

Also the problem with the wooden wagon (assuming you could make the nut a moving wagon with a dog in it) is that all the force would be put on the internal garter. With the tail vise I'm guessing you can hide that nut inside the box so the force will be against the end cap.


----------



## Bertha

With nuts this massive, they're kind of hard to hide. Man, I really need to stop this morning. You're quite right as usual, Mauricio. I can't beef up the garter without beefing up the slot on the hub. I guess I could make a metal garter but that kind of defeats the purpose. In for a penny, right? I think I've got to build the tail.


----------



## mochoa

LOL. At least you havent posted any nude pictures of models like Mads just did!

No shame in a metal garter, maybe you could even devise a way where there are two garters coming in from each side to completely surround the screw? Could make it brass so its more pimpish?


----------



## Bertha

Hmmmm, you know, the external garter on the Lake Eerie leg vise is brass, hmmmm. Maybe I could bedazzle it with some rhinestones.
.
I haven't posted any nude pictures of models…
.
.....yet.


----------



## mochoa

Here is a nice portable workbench.


















http://www.closegrain.com/2010/09/portable-workbench-part-3.html


----------



## mochoa

Carters Blog is a must read for those of you curently building a bench:
http://lumberjocks.com/CartersWhittling/blog/series/5198


----------



## alba

So many ideas

My head hurts 

I love the wooden screw

I just know I would neglect it


----------



## Bertha

^it's true. If Carter's blog was in book form, I'd buy it instantly. Too bad it's here free. Sorry, Carter!!!
Seriously, if Carter would just GIVE me his bench, I could avoid a lot of frustration.
.
Jamie, I'll probably abuse mine too The sheer number of possibilities are endless. It does make your head hurt. It feels like SO much is at stake


----------



## Mosquito

I really like that portable bench Mauricio. Last week I sat using SketchUp for a while, trying to design a decent folding bench, but was struggling. That blog series is very good, and I may implement many of the ideas on my own rendition… I really would like something more than a folding table and a pair of Jorgensen parallel bar clamps clamped to it…


----------



## mochoa

Mos, lookforward to seeing what you come up with.


----------



## Mosquito

If I go forward with it, it might have to wait a month or two… I'm trying to impose a budget on myself… Not running into money issues (apart from the usual not having unlimited supplies…) just not saving anything in my paychecks the past few… oops. Time to start paying less back on my student loans I think :-D


----------



## RGtools

Mauricio. Thanks for the link. My wife has convinced me to start offering classes as part of the B&B. As a result I have had portible benches on the brain. This is a great one.

But I still like the idea of a knockdown Nicholson.


----------



## mochoa

B&B? Bed and Breakfast?


----------



## mochoa

I havent seen the knockdown nicholson. How about that knockdown Moravian splayed leg bench?


----------



## mochoa

Isnt the german bench in Underhills book a knockdown?


----------



## b2rtch

Here is the bench I built out of Douglas Fir several years ago. 
It serves me well ever since.


----------



## mochoa

Very nice bench Bert.


----------



## b2rtch

Mauricio, thank you very much.
I like it very much


----------



## NANeanderthal

So, i figure maybe i shouldn't have made this thread. Figured it would be nice to see other benches, but no, you guys have to actually add comments too. Now you all gotten me wanting to build anouther bench, even though i have one i love, just for the fun of it. But if i tried my little 5'2" asian wife would ninja kick me in the face.


----------



## NANeanderthal

Bert,
For one, nice bench, im probably going to steal the idea of that drawer down on the end.
Two, what is that black plate inset into the ebnch for?


----------



## b2rtch

The green plate is there just to have something to hammer on when you need to straighten a nail or to bend a piece of steel or in general to have a hard surface to pound on.
Many people like this idea, including Chris Schwartz.


----------



## waho6o9

I havent seen the knockdown nicholson. How about that knockdown Moravian splayed leg bench?

Does this one qualify Mauricio?
The bench was made by Will Myers. 
http://www.wkfinetools.com/tMaking/art/moravianBench/moravianBench-13.asp

Great bench Bert!


----------



## b2rtch

waho6o9, thank you.
Your bench is beautiful.
Is the top a single slab?
Which kind of wood is ti?


----------



## b2rtch

I forgot to show you this special feature:










Storage and adjustable and removable bottom full length rest.
Notice the holes under the bench to use hold fasts.


----------



## mochoa

Wahoo that moravian bench definitely counts, I've been drooling over that one for a while, both the original and the one on that blog.

Bert, interesting ideas, got a little newfangled bench ideas mixed in there. Interesting idea on that big drawer too.


----------



## mochoa

Al, are you still around? Have you thought of using those two wooden screws in a different way? Make a leg vise and a sliding Deadman/Leg Vise, then get an inexpensive LV screw for your wagon? Would be Supa' Dope!


----------



## b2rtch

Thank you Mauricio.


----------



## Bertha

^I thought about that but I'm not sure I like the idea of the sliding leg vise. I mean, it's cool and all, but I'm not sure I'd use it all that much. If I don't do a wooden screw for the tail, I'd definitely go Benchcrafted. I could always find something else to do with the 2nd wood screw. Good thought, though.


----------



## alba

*Bert*

That is one great bench

Must be a pleasure to work at

Jamie


----------



## waho6o9

The credit for the Moravin bench goes to:
Will Myers. 
http://www.wkfinetools.com/tMaking/art/moravianBench/moravianBench-13.asp, Bert.

The blog for Will Myer's bench is in, www.wkfinetools.com, and it's also a great site for info.

Rock on.


----------



## RGtools

Yes Mauricio. My wife and I run a bed and breakfast. I'll send you a link if you remind me.

The Morovian is awesome…but a bit time consuming for what I plan on doing. I have always wanted to try out a Nicholson bench but don't really have the space. I plan on making it a dedicated outdoor (under a roof on the north side of my house) bench tha I can use to do the classes outside.

I have not seen a knockdown version either….let me know if you do. I am somewhat confounded how to attach the top to the splayed legs, I have a few ideas but none that I like just yet.


----------



## mochoa

RG I think the Nicholsen is a sweet bench, I love them with the played legs and the angled leg vise. Would yo uneed to make at least the legs out of pressure treated wood?

The Moravian uses pegs but I dont know how the leg vise doesnt push the top off the legs. It seems like all that shearing force is going into those pegs.


----------



## mafe

Ok Andy asked me to post my new workbench, so here it is.
(Perhaps a little of the subject).









Japanese planing board / workbench.









Me making long, thin shaves.

You can see more here: http://lumberjocks.com/mafe/blog/30030

I did not see this blog until today, some really nice benches, and Al you really made me cry.
Big smile boys.

Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## mochoa

Mads, this isn't off subject at all. Great to see you here again.

I love the minimalism of the bench. Is that good for your neck? It doesn't look very comfortable.


----------



## Brit

I think one of the really nice things about Mads new bench is that your tools don't have far to fall when they roll off it.


----------



## mafe

Hi ho,

Andy, yes that is really making woodworking less nervous, no more woodworking on nerve medicine.

Mauricio, infact it is really good. Not sitting like I do on that picture, it is just for the camera, but the sitting in the tailor position and pulling the plane using the waight of the body instead of pushing where lots of energy gets lost in the movement. This was one of the reasons I started to look into the Japanese tools, that I realized there are a more free energy flow.
You have different setup for bigger items, this I will get to in my blog later.

Best thoughts, nice to be back here,
Mads


----------



## RGtools

Mads, I am glad you have found a way to work that suits you. At some point I would love to try a setup like that.


----------



## mochoa

And it looks nice in the living room.


----------



## RGtools

Mauricio, I don't think I would use PT, I really am not a fan of the stuff. I would just pick a rot resistant species for the legs (walnut would work in my case). Or I could just make it out of cheap pine and see how the thing fares over time.

What I am more concerned about is the vise hardware corroding due to moisture in the air. Also how best to attach the top (I would split it), and make it detachable while allowing for wood movement and not making the bench bouncy for mortising (a common complaint of this bench type). I think I would make the top a bit thicker (2 1/2?) Which would help solve a lot of these issues.


----------



## mochoa

Ryan, you can always just seal the feet some form of resin/eboxy. I've read about something like that once. Also consider using through bolts to join the top pieces, I've seen them in a lot of antique benches. You could then loosen or tighten them as needed.

You can see the 3 bolts on the front edge of this bench.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

RE: Bert's - adjustable and removable bottom full length rest -

I had to do a dbl take with that pic to figure out what was going on, but now I see it. That is cool! Is each end supported by pipe-clamp-type mechanisms, or ?


----------



## waho6o9

Awesome bench, thanks Mads! I appreciate the functionality of the design and the shooting board on the side.
Maybe I make one.


----------



## lysdexic

RE: Bert's - adjustable and removable bottom full length rest -

I first thought it was a foot rest so that you are comfortable when you have a beer.


----------



## mafe

;-)


----------



## Sylvain

If you have well read the web site of Kari Hultman
http://villagecarpenter.blogspot.com/2012/04/roubo-finished.html

you will have discovered that her splendid workbench is "a traveling bench".

more traveling benches on her site :
http://villagecarpenter.blogspot.com/2011/05/have-bench-will-travel.html
http://villagecarpenter.blogspot.com/2011/05/more-traveling-benches.html
http://villagecarpenter.blogspot.com/2011/10/workbench-inspiration.html
For Andy, on this last post there is one based on a workmate.


----------



## Sylvain

Ryan
What about a Paul Sellers' bench type with the skirts bolted to the legs (bed bolts ? if you don't lower the upper strechers or, as it is on the short side, threaded rods from front to back).
If I have well understood the longitudinal stability is obtained by the legs being in a dado in the skirts. So the bolts would only be there to keep things toghether.
http://www.newlegacywoodworking.com/2012/04/05/benches-benches-everywhere/

The top could be kept in place with dowels as on the Moravian workbench of Will Myers (see last pictures on the page 8 :
http://www.wkfinetools.com/tMaking/art/moravianBench/moravianBench-08.asp


----------



## mochoa

Sylvain, great pics of the traveling benches.

I'm a big fan of Paul Sellars but his benches just dont appeal to me for some reason.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I like this one from Kari's site (link above) - add a small vise of any kind, a hole or two for a couple dogs, and it's ready to go as a saw horser or bench, add some tools, what's not to love?










Thanks for sharing those links, Sylvain! This is on my build list now!


----------



## Bertha

^did y'all notice that those new legacy benches are supposed to be available for purchase? I just sent an e-mail.


----------



## Bertha

They got back to me very quickly. I doubt they'd mind me sharing this here:
.
We are in the process of posting the workbench details on the New Legacy Woodworking site. In the meantime, here is the price list for the three different style benches that we are offering.

We have several options for the benches. The maple benches we use in the shop, with the vise installed, we are selling for $1250. The pine benches with the salvaged bowling alley tops are selling for $850, including the vise. The double bench Paul uses in the classes which is douglas fir and pine, we would sell for $1050, with the vise.
We would have to figure out shipping costs, as well. We would be able to build a custom bench to meet your exact specifications, if you would prefer. Let me know if you are interested and we can talk about the details/options. " 
.
Pretty good deal, really


----------



## mochoa

Not a bad deal.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You're thinking seriously about buying, aren't you! That wouldn't be a bad thing, you know… Then use the tops you have elsewhere in the shop…


----------



## Bertha

I was kind of fishing for permission, smit. It's not my style preference alas. I bet it will do very well though.


----------



## KenBry

I wonder why they are selling them? It's a school so I kinda thought they would need them unless the school is closing down


----------



## mochoa

Yeah, its not clear if they are making them to sell or if they are selling their benches.


----------



## Bertha

^good point, fellas. The fact that they will customize them makes me think they're outright selling them. I'm not sure I'd pay LESS for one that had been abused/proven. If it's made it through a few cycles of school and it's still flat and stable, I'm not sure it'd bother me. However, shelling out $1000+ and getting one gouged and dirty; well… I think about this stuff too much, so if I buy one (with two bench slabs leaning in my shop, a stack of douglas fir in my stack, and two screws being built), I could blame it on the builder Like I said, I overthink the bench thing


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Here's a post of the big wood tail vise, Al!


----------



## Sylvain

Smitty,
Good pictures, it seems to be more or less the same design as on CartersWhittling bench.
(Yours is of course the oldest one.)
Except that the nut is built in on Carters'one.
http://lumberjocks.com/CartersWhittling/blog/26036

he has a great videao which explains how it works.

I will look at all his bench serie again because I missed this video the first time. (Or did he add it later?)


----------



## mochoa

Al, not to through more ideas out there, It sounds like you may have made up your mind, but have you ever thought of one of these?


----------



## Bertha

I've seen the lower of the two benches, Maur.I salivated as if on command. I hate the lam but the fact that it's so bold as to tip the bench? I approve. I didn't do too well in math and that splayed dovetail makes my brainstem hurt. I don't know what it is about the traditional tail; I just skim through thumbnails till I spot one. I really think the design of Carter's Whittling bench is kind of the penultimate for me (leg+tail+shoulder, all wood). I just don't have the space to let a bench anchor my shop. I don't anticipate having the space for quite a while (lottery pending), so I've got to be sad and reasonable at 60×24. I swear, I think about this too much. I'd be happy with a gang of Lowes 2×4s allthreaded together. Why do we do this to ourselves?


----------



## AnthonyReed

Now that is badass Mauricio!


----------



## woodworker59

I have bench envy, I just wish I had the space for benches like you folks.. my shop is very small, 220sqft.
so accordingly I have a small bench.. its 63" by 20" by 34"High. the top is two layers of 3/4"OSB between two layers of 1" MDF then its wrapped in 2" thick cherry. Legs are standard 4"x4"'s with 2"x4" stretchers.. 
with the Wilton end vise and the shop made leg vise I can do just about anything I want.. that is unless I want to do something ten feet long, then I have to move outside..I do mostly hand work so everything is good.
between my bench hooks and dogs I can do what I need, thank goodness for Jigs.. lets see more benches… I can dream can't I!...


----------



## Bertha

Papa, I like your style, brother. I think it's all there. Solid as a rock, I'm sure.


----------



## mochoa

Al the traditional tail vise is the bees knees. Commit, go for it, and dont asky anyone else for their opinion. . Thats what I did, its easy to get Analysis Paralysis with so many options.


----------



## Bertha

^I'm done now that Smitty posted those pics. I realize now that the bulk of it can go under the benchtop b/c there'll be no dogs, etc. over there for it to interfere with. Just throw a couple runners in there, place the nut, and presto. I've got some really curly big leaf that I could mill for the vise.


----------



## donwilwol

I need to unwatch this thread. My sawmill is setup so the last board comes out 2". Now I can flip it and cut it again, but why? Everyone screams, *Don, you need to build another bench. *

NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!


----------



## Bertha

YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!
.
Given your access, you need to build a totally traditional, ANCIENT bench. I'm talking solid 6" thick top from one board. Wooden everything. Shoulder vise. Shut everyone up forever


----------



## donwilwol

Al, you should buy those 2 pieces of 39" chestnut. What a bench that would be.


----------



## Bertha

Geez, did anyone ever arrive upon a price?


----------



## donwilwol

nope, not that I saw.


----------



## woodworker59

Al- I wouldn't want to make a habit of having to move it I know that, I am thinking of adding some outriggers
for the back legs, because its narrow, can git a little wobble going if I am really planing a big board. end to end its fine, just pushing to the back it could use the added footprint. Just thinking some upside down corbel type
arrangement.. about four inched should do the trick… What I would really like is about another 200sqft of space.. then I could build a big bench.. _*Yes dear I really do need to build it bigger, honest its just something I have to do.. its hurting my ability to make money.. come on I need better lines to convince her,*_, how about some help>>>


----------



## Sylvain

I just found this about the nut of big wooden screw :
http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=2793

in a few words : don't secure the nut (as long as it does not rotate with the screw).

I would say it makes sense; you don't need the machining precision used in metal work; especially knowing that wood would move with humidy and/or time.


----------



## Sylvain

Building a Paul Sellers workbench in 28 hours
(no dog holes, no wooden vise, no …)

http://www.closegrain.com/2012/05/building-paul-sellers-workbench.html


----------



## CartersWhittling

I can't believe I only found this forum topic now!

@Al, my friend built a bench last summer with a 2" diameter wooden screw for a wagon vise he made. The end cap has a nut tapped in it with the tip of the screw captured in a garter like a shoulder vise to move the chop back and forth. Perhaps I can get some photos of his bench to post here.

I noticed that a couple people mentioned my bench build, but I thought I would post a couple pictures and explain my design briefly for anyone that hasn't seen it.



















My bench is largely based off of the bench Patrick Edwards built http://www.wpatrickedwards.com/bench.htm. It has a shoulder vise, tail vise, and leg vise. With this style bench you cannot place it against a wall, therefore your shop must revolve around it. I do a lot of furniture repairs, so I find having access to all sides of the bench is very useful. Its about 6' long and maybe 30" high. All solid maple, 8/4 - 12/4 thick. The link to my bench build is here, http://lumberjocks.com/CartersWhittling/blog/series/5198. My last post was an evaluation of my bench after 6 months experience. I am also in the process of a series about making wooden screws and nuts, http://lumberjocks.com/CartersWhittling/blog/series/4545.


----------



## Brit

We never get tired of looking at your bench Carter.


----------



## donwilwol

+2 on what Andy wrote Carter. That goes for all of your work. Thanks for sharing it with us.


----------



## KenBry

Oh great, now I need to go back to the drawing board and redesign. LoL, that's a nice one!


----------



## Bertha

OMG, yep, that's the bench. Carter, I'd love to see your friend's woodscrewed wagon. I know exactly what you're talking about by your description. Kind of a piston setup, right? I like the idea of the end cap being tapped. I'm pretty much sold on the Smitty design at this point. Sylvain brings up a wonderful point, however, about fixing the nut. I think Smit's bench design would lend itself to capturing the nut loosely, rather than fixing it rigidly. Is "rigidly" a word? Is now. Seems weird.
.
Glad you're here, Carter!!!


----------



## lysdexic

Under the of influence Carter, here is an idea. If i ever have the opportunity / space to place my bench out in the middle of the shop, then I'd add a shoulder vise.

I think that it wouldn't be difficult to add an end cap to the rear slab adjacent the wagon vise. The end cap would extend into the outrigger for the shoulder vise.

Things that make you go hmmm.


----------



## Bertha

I can't eliminate the desire for a shoulder vise either. I'm certain I don't have the shopspace, unless I want to get rid of my table saw. Quite the opposite, I'm planning a giant Powematic cabinet saw, which is going to eat into any space I have left.


----------



## mochoa

Carter welcome to the Workbench thread, we were missing something without you here. Carter went all out on that bench, freaking awesome.

Carter question about your friends wagon vise, does the screw stick out when fully open? Does he have any complaints about it getting in the way? I'm sure he hardly ever has it in that position though. I was going to use a steel screw for my wagon but you got me thinking.

I'm getting close to having my 2" Maple leg vise screw done. I'm also thinking of making a screw for use as a parallel guide too, with a nut I can just flick with my foot like the shaker bench in Landis' book.

I'll probably make a couple extras if anyone wants one.


----------



## Bertha

Mauricio, I thought about this for the legvise parallel guide. I'm going to have a hard time explaining it and I don't know Sketchup, lol.
.
Imagine your threaded parallel guide passing through the base of the leg through a round mortise. Now imagine a square mortise coming out of the right side of the leg and passing under the round mortise. You could build a little lever with a small garter at the end that travels through the square mortise and engages the threads on the parallel guide. You could equip this little lever with a spring and effectively have a quick release parallel guide.
.
What do you think?


----------



## CartersWhittling

My friend with the wagon vise also has a leg vise with a screw for his parallel guide. He uses a thin nut on the screw that he can move with his foot just like you said Mauricio. And yes the screw does stick out when fully extended. I havn't seen him in a little while and don't know his thoughts on it.

The quick release is a neat idea Al. You should play around with that idea some more. Just keep the strength of the gizmo in mind. It has to be able to with stand the forces of the vise.

I will also mention the old/new St. Peter's cross parallel guide that Benchcrafted will soon be releasing. I don't like seeing metal on a workbench, hence my wooden screws, but the cross is a great idea. Perhaps you could make one yourself, even out of wood. http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/st-peter's-cross-and-the-ultimate-leg-vise


----------



## mochoa

Sounds like a cool idea Al, you know it wouldnt even have to be a screw, you could turn a dowel and put a bunch of evenly spaced garter notches. The little spring loaded garter could then engage at any of the notches.

I think I've seen something like that somewhere but it wasnt with a screw it was with a metal piece with notches.


----------



## Bertha

I figured I didn't just make it up, lol. I still think the screw would look cooler. You could put a locking nut on either side of the leg for extra awesomeness.


----------



## mochoa

This dude tried to make his own St. Peters Cross. http://awalkinthewoods-woodworking.blogspot.com/ it didnt work to well, he has a link to his youtube video at the end.


----------



## mochoa

Oh wow, look at this Antique.


----------



## Bertha

I don't know, Maur, I think that chop would break under stress, lol. Scissor and all, gangster.


----------



## sdbranam

Regarding my Paul Sellers workbench that Sylvain linked to in reply #743, I'll be drilling dog holes in the top and apron, since I have a Gramercy Tools holdfast for it. However, I'm holding off and will drill them as needed. I'll just keep my large Spofford brace and 3/4" bit handy.


----------



## donwilwol

Mauricio, i've walked by a lot of antique leg vises in the past few months. The screw I bought from Smitty works great and I like my vice, it does everything I need, but I have to admit, that one would be hard to let go by.


----------



## Sylvain

Steve,
I didn't mean to critisize, what I wanted to say is that the 28 hours are for the basic bench and didn't include the time to make dog holes etc.

I would be more than happy to have one. For the time being I am working on the picnic bench in the garden, wheather permitting.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ It is curious, Maur and Al, that the person what used that leg vise opted not to replace the front wood chop when it cracked, but to reinforce it with steel bolts and plate. Maybe he was more of a smithy vs. joiner? Or just the fastest, most effective repair because re-making the chop would be a pain? Another option might be the dado that has to be taken from the chop, to house the cross, weakened the chop and a replace just wouldn't hold over the long term.


----------



## Sylvain

there was some discussion hereabove
starting at #500 where the St Peters cross vise was mentionned.

As my comment #557 about it was out of sync at the time.
I wander what are your views about this design usefulness taking into account comments from Smitty, Mauricio & Techredneck (#505 to #508)


----------



## mochoa

If Mad Max was into woodworking thats the kind of vise he would have ;-)

Sylvain, Thats a lot of scrolling back, are you referring to the discussion about just bending over and moving the pin and it not having to be moved very often?

If I had the money I would go with the cross, it is slightly more convenient and its just a cool piece of engineering.


----------



## mochoa

Man I cant imagine how big a 2.5" wooden screw looks like in my hands. I think its overkill. The 2" I'm working on makeing are pretty big as it is. 









I saw this one in an antique store, it was probably about 2" 









I was going to say that the old timers didnt make screws that big but then I read this closer… 2.5" 









Sorry guys, once I get my screw done I wont talk about them any more, your probably getting tired of hearing about it.


----------



## Bertha

^I don't get tired of it. What's the diameter of a beer can? Hold on….gulp….looks to be about 2 1/2 inches. I'll take some good pictures of my Lake Eerie. I have another reference to use that closer to 3 inches in diamter


----------



## mochoa

I think your right about the can Al.

3"? your gonna need 8"x8" legs for your bench! ;-)


----------



## Bertha

^Naw, I just have to get a bigger inseam on my trousers


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

@Sylvain - Coolness factor, the Cross Vise is way off the scale. Practical value added to a leg vise? For me? None, zero, zilch. I wouldn't want to hollow out the chop and leg, either. But that's just me.


----------



## mochoa

Smitty by the way, I bet that iron reinforcement was added on to begin with to prevent breaking or flex in the wood.


----------



## Bertha

I'm with Smitty, it's like chopper handlebars on your bike. Cool? Oh hell yeah. Practical? Maybe not so much. I mean, we could put parallel hydralic pumps with actuators. At some point, you kind of get too far away from tradition, imo.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Entirely possible, and certainly effective~!  as it's lasted a very long time.


----------



## donwilwol

I like that idea Al, foot activated switch of course.


----------



## donwilwol

better yet, lets do air, I already have a compressor.


----------



## mochoa

Garret Hack Square Dogs, seem preety easy to make. To late for me to do square dogs, my top is already glued up.


----------



## Bertha

Hell, Don, lets do vacuum. You could put a suction cup on the bench surface to hold your work. goodbye dogs! 
.
Just saying
.


----------



## Brit




----------



## mochoa

LOL


----------



## Bertha

^lolololololol
huge bench
.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ LOL, Andy!!!!


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio,
That's a clever idea with the dogs. The TWW plan I am using calls for screws for the spring board. I have to give it some consideration.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah, Scott, he makes the squares on the TS, then cuts out that shallow dado, and the kerf for the spring all on the band saw, Its kind of hard to beat that for speed.


----------



## Bertha

^I've got the lumber drying.
That's me in the back with my hat on backward, peeing on the log to mark my claim.
.


----------



## donwilwol

Al, i assume you cut it with a 1 man crosscut?


----------



## Texchappy

But it looks like he does have one woman supervising the operation


----------



## donwilwol

your right texchappy, I can hear the conversation…....cheez Al, you pee'ed on your shoe again!!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Hah


----------



## Bertha

I'm ripping it with a pit saw. Manly.


----------



## Brit

I wouldn't want to have been in the way of that when it fell. That stump looks pretty flat, you could just square it off at the edges, drill some dog holes and use it where it is Al. When you're not using it, you could rent it out to the local amateur dramatic society and they could stage a musical on it it's so big.


----------



## Bertha

I'm going to need some room for my carving too, though, Andy. I'll probably use this one as my finishing bench.


----------



## Boatman53

Hi, my first post, can't figure out how to get photos posted. When I do I'll share photos of the bench I just about finished. It has twin leg vises. The right one has the traditional pin in the beam for easy removal if it will be in the way. The left one has a chain devise to keep the jaw parallel and it works great. Can someone give me some help with the photos? Thanks.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks for posting Boatman, and welcome to LumberJocks.

Images work a little different here than on most forums. instead of







tags it's wrapped in ! marks.


*That's Boatman53's bench, not mine. Just helping post the picture*


----------



## mochoa

Sweet bench Boatman, What was your strategy with the dual leg vises? Also, I would love to see details of the chain devise.


----------



## Bertha

Welcome Boatman! Can't wait to see it. I just use the site image button ("IMG"), choose "from my computer", browse to the picture on my local drive, upload it.


----------



## mochoa

Boatman, the suspense is killing me, I need to see that chain drive thingy!


----------



## Mosquito

you can likewise click the link that says "(or from the web)" once you open the image menu if it's already published to a site, such as yours was.


----------



## benchbuilder

Hi All,
I was just reading about leg vises in the "Workbench Book" by Scott Landis, on page 45 there is a pic of a leg vise with the cast iron sissors used to keep the jaws parallel. Norm Vandal (the user) says it was getting a bit sloopy after a few months of use, but didn't effedt the work or use of it.


----------



## lysdexic

I always have difficulty with pics. I have to upload to computer then upload to picasa or photobucket then re-download to computer them re-uplaod in the post.

Otherwise, I get a pick that is cut off like Boatman's. Something happens during the upload that allows them not to becroped.


> ?


 Also, if I try to direct link it is almost as may clicks as the above process.


----------



## Bertha

I've been complaining about the image interface for a while now. It's like playing whack-a-mole; I have to hit "insert" they quickly move my cursor to where I want the picture to go. If I insert a pic directly from the web, it's huge; but if I save it locally, it's normal sized; like me and Lysdexic, respectively.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I actually like the photobucket iphone app. Go into settings and you can set uploads (from phone) to 600×600 and they're set right for LJs. If I depended on a PC to upload pics, my uploads / posts would likely stop.


----------



## Bertha

Smit, so you just dump them directly into photobucket, then insert them as web-based images using the img button?


----------



## BrandonW

Good suggestion, Smitty. I tend to mail them to my computer and upload them from there, but I think you're method works well when I'm takng pics with my phone.


----------



## Mosquito

didn't know about the 600px wide thing… I guess it's just dumb luck that I automatically resize my images to 600×450 for thumbnails and 1600×1200 for zoomed in pictures… I use a simple PHP page to make the store of thumbs and images into a list of thumbnails that link to respective larger pictures that way too. Makes it easy to show my projects to people


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nope, I flip through photobucket (PB) and select the one I want. when it comes up in the PB app, I can grap the Image (address) URL; I think it's third down of the four that show, but I don't remember… could be the second one… Anyway, once that's copied to the clipboard, I flip back to the entry in LJ, type the first !, tap to paste the Image url, type the second ! and it's good to go.

I don't use the img button or the link icon.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I should add that I take pictures directly to the PB app on my phone. 'upload image, from camera' rather than snap the pics then upload to pb… it's just cleaner and it's just as fast, really.


----------



## Gshepherd

The best lookin benches are the ones that are being used…......


----------



## RGtools

Video can be just as fun…I really wish I had done a youtube account for the class. I would like to reload everything on that site and re-link everything so you have the option to fast forward through some of my ramblings.

Oh well.


----------



## Brit

I print my photos, trim them with a pair of scissors, touch them up with an airbrush, scan them back in, then upload them.

...or do I?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ryan, where are your videos hosted now? Posted straight to LJs?


----------



## Brit

Ryan - You're ramblings are some of the best bits. Pure class.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Andy, lol… However you do it, I'll be you make it look easy. 

And Shepherd, you are so right!


----------



## RGtools

No, I used facebook and then, ported them in much like you would a picture….it seems like sometimes you can only get a picture of the video as opposed to the full vid. (not due to the privacy filters either, I set those to public for the class).

I did not find a video straight to LJ option. Don't tell me if there is one….I might cry.


----------



## Brit

For vids, I upload them to my YouTube channel and then copy and paste the embed code into my LJs post.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I found my methods above don't work for videos from PB, but… I can select text and create a hyperlink to the PB-hosted video. Check my fan club comment see how it worked… I'd like to get a video frame in the LJs post, haven't figured out how to do that within my framework just yet.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thanks for the input, Andy, wondered how you did yours, too.

I don't have a youtube channel yet… hesitant to learn another app environment if I can find a way to do it within PB.


----------



## Boatman53

Just thought I'd try and post a pix again.
!









]!

!
This is the chain vise finished and working. If I had the cross I would not be able to feed that curved piece between the screw and the beam.


----------



## Boatman53

Well that didn't work. Is it really that hard to post a pix?


----------



## Boatman53

One more time.


----------



## sdbranam

No worries, Sylvain! I just wanted to point out that I do find dog holes useful, in case someone thought I wasn't going to use them.


----------



## Sylvain

Boatman53

interesting picture.

It is the first time I see the left side of the leg vise being useful.

Did you use the pin at the bottom of the vise?


----------



## Sylvain

Al,

I have tried to find if there was a standard for wooden screw but without success.
The idea is to have an idea of the necessary clearances to have a smooth operation.

When you have your Lake Eerie nut and screw, would it be possible to let us know the following dimensions:

- outside diameter of the screw;
- inside diameter of the nut;
- threading depth on the screw;
- threading depth in the nut;
- screw backlash

and the TPI.


----------



## sdbranam

Ah, Boatman53, I see you have a Zyliss removable vise sitting in your tool well. My uncle had one when I was a kid, then I bought one at a home show 15 years later. Nifty, although I never did end up using it much. One of those things that demos great at a show (look at all the ways you can use it!), but not always so practical in general use. Too much of remove this, add that, swap this.


----------



## lysdexic

Thanks to Andy's efforts and expertise I now have a pic of the tapered feet. I have always preferred the massive square legs but there stance seemed clunky and unrefined. I think a little taper adds a grace without compromising the visual strength.

I know some will object because it is just a work bench. I ask - why not?

Thanks Andy.


----------



## DanKrager

Lysdexic, that looks like a great SU model.

I've been following this thread since beginning and now I'm convinced you guys are all crazy, or at least have a disease, and I LOVE it. There are some great ideas presented and the diversity of use is interesting.

I'm getting ready to post my latest bench addition, an assembly bench patterned after John Whites new fangled bench and an assembly bench in Scott Landis "Workbench Book". It is unique because it is mounted on a salvaged hospital gurney giving it height adjustabililty, a solid brake system, and 10" casters. I put shallow parts trays on the retractable rails. I hope to get pictures of it today. Stay tuned.
Dan


----------



## BrandonW

Yes, Scott! Those tapered feet really do make a difference. Can't wait to see the finished bench.

What is it about workbenches that are so fascinating? I finished my bench months ago, but I still can't get enough pictures of them and always find the discussion around them so interesting.


----------



## lysdexic

Boatman, I appreciate the irreverent juxtaposition of Festool storage in a classic Roubo workbench.


----------



## Bertha

^I was enjoying that too.


----------



## Boatman53

This is a great thread.
Sylvai… That vise with the curved piece has no pin to begin with, but if it did I would not need one as long as part of whatever is being clamped extends down below the screw. That counteracts the clamping forces above the screw.

Steve… I like the Zyliss vise, infect a lot aft the dimensions of my bench were chosen to accommodate that vise. I am often working out of the shop and it can hold stuff just about anywhere. It is true a lot of the accessories just stay in the box. I have several, mostly bought off eBay or Craigslist, I'll use two in tamdem to hold oars for varnishing.


----------



## Boatman53

Scott, they have to go somewhere. 
I will be building a drawer box for storing tools with the bench but that wont happen till the fall or next winter. I am overwhelmed with work for the Nast couple of months.


----------



## Boatman53

I was scanning this whole thread last night and there was some talk about splayed legs on a bench. I built this about 14 years ago for working off site at different boatyards. It folds and transports easily, but is rock solid when set up. For portability it depends on clamps and a Syl is vise for work holding.




































I think I've got this photo thing down thanks to all for their help.
Jim


----------



## RGtools

^That is one of the coolest knock down benches I have seen yet.


----------



## lysdexic

Boatman- that's friggin impressive.


----------



## donwilwol

Boatman, I love that, I'm stealing the design if you don't mind, just in case!


----------



## mochoa

Scott the tapered legs are a nice touch.


----------



## mochoa

Boatman, thats a really cool portable bench, you could also put some dog holes in it for use with your wonder pups?


----------



## lysdexic

Boatman, pardon my ignorance but can you expound on "Syl vise"?

Also, how does the top attach?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

First off, Wow! Awesome portable! What keeps the hinged legs apart when set up, or is it not an issue?

For my handtool use, I could easily add dog holes to that top; it's the perfect balance of portability vs. functionality. A row spaced near the front edge that uses the Veritas bench pup, and a couple / three along each side of the split that would use Superdave's nautilis cam bench clamps and it's golden! Thanks, Boatman, for sharing this one. It's defiitely getting built!


----------



## Sylvain

Boatman53
Excellent design.
The diagonal braces ensure the longitudinal stiffness.
Did you hand plane on it?

This assembly technique is used for decor on stage:
for those of us speaking French, look at :
http://techsceniques.clg.qc.ca/html/

then click on : "le mouchoir" 
then there is a serie of 8 PPT presentations


----------



## Bertha

I can't see boatman's picture from this damn computer. Can someone describe it to me so I can share in the excitement?


----------



## Mosquito

Dang it Al! Looks sort of like one-sided sawhorses hinged to cross members between the two on one edge of the ends (open on the splayed side). Straight across on top and bottom, with two diagonals that go from bottom corners to top center on the cross members. The sawhorse looking sides fold flat against the long side. The side of the ends that has the cross members is straight up and down, and the opposite side is splayed out. The top looks like 2 2xSomething boards.

This is a fun game, now draw what you have pictured in your mind, and share it once you see the actual image


----------



## waho6o9

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/9b55bedd.jpg

See if this works for you Al.

welcome to LJ's Boatman, your benches rock!


----------



## Bertha

Thanks Waho but this computer blocks most all images. I'll check from my phone.


----------



## Boatman53

Let's see if I can catch up on my brief lunch time.

Mauricio…dog holes would be a nice addition, I can't remember if the wonder pups were on the market when I made this. It gets used very little lately, but I would not hesitate to drill the holes if the need arose.

Scott… That was my iPad trying to correct my spelling of Zyliss vise. Apparently if I type two l's that's what you get.

Smutty… The hinge for the center truss is offset from the front, and the two top planks are attached by a 3"x3" piece of oak. You can see them in the first photo. Those go just outside the legs and lock everything open. I was going to drill for a cross bolt but never felt the need. The once or twice I did I just threw a clamp on it.

Sylvain…yes hand planing was it's first need. I was making two 50' long rub rails for a boat. The were about 4"x5" triangular shaped and clamping that to a bunch of saw horses proved just too wobbly. So I built this and put it in the middle and it worked great. The bench is low, saw horse height so perfect for hand planing.

The leg are cut off scrap from a deck job a contractor friend was going to throw out and the top is two 2×8 I believe maranti it was cheap at the time, and I wanted something stiffer than fir. It all could be built from construction wood. The basic design that I adapted to fold was as a site built bench at a construction site. The gap between the top pieces is just wide enough to get a clamp thru.

Feel free to build or change as you see fit. I would not have shared if I didn't want that to happen. Post what you come up with.
Jim


----------



## mochoa

Smutty! LOL, spellchecker strikes again!


----------



## mochoa

Jim, glad you joined the thread. I would love to see the details of your chain operated parallel guide that leg vise whenever you have time. Thanks!


----------



## Boatman53

Sorry Smitty did not mean to miss spell your name, but the I and the u are next to each other.
Jim


----------



## mochoa

My spell checker doesnt like Smitty, it wants to change it to Smutty, Smithy, Smite, etc…


----------



## Boatman53

Sorry Smitty the I and the u ARE right next to each other.
Jim


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, I've been called worse, trust me! . No harm, no foul! Love the bench, Jim!


----------



## lysdexic

Smutty! Oh! It's on now.

I just have to recycle this image….........


----------



## lysdexic

Still chuckling.

Sorry its just my adolescent sense of humor.


----------



## bandit571

For that leg vise i'm cobbling up, I think I need some leather to line the jaws with. I just happen to have an old tool belt pouch, from when i worked as a Concrete carpenter. I'm way too old to do THAT again, so, at least one of the two nail pouches can be cut to line the jaws. Question: How to attach this stuff?

Wagon vise is almost all planned out, and might be within my Budget> $0.00

More on THAT to follow…..


----------



## lysdexic

Here is another version that Andy did with the taper starting from the top…..


----------



## Sylvain

Taping from the top would make the joinery pore tricky but that may be part of the fun

Taping from the top on the front would not allow to abide to the Schwarz recomandation of a flush front (or at least not a vertical one).


----------



## CartersWhittling

Yeah, I would never taper the front of the leg, it is hard to tell by the picture though if it is.


----------



## lysdexic

The legs would only taper on the inside surfaces. Nevertheless, there are several resaons why I wouldn't do this. Making the joinery trickier than it needs to be is a big one.


----------



## Brit

What have I missed? Let's see…

Scot put up the images of the tapered feet.
SMUTTY
Nice folding bench from boatman53
SMUTTY
Scot put up the images of the tapered legs - DON'T do that folks!
SMUTTY

I think I'm about caught up now. Carry on folks. (Andy ducks as Smitty swings)


----------



## Brit

I think it is great that we can all have a laugh at each other's expense and not take it the wrong way.

Luv ya Smitty!


----------



## RGtools

I have got to admit I like the full taper look better than the partial though. 
Have you considered doing lambs tounge style chamfers instead to spruce things up? That might be simpler.


----------



## bandit571

Maybe just a beveled foot? Cut 45 degree bevels around the bottom of the legs. I just don't think I can do it on mine, though…









Ain't no way to pretty them legs up. And, I can only go so low with the aprons, to hide the ugly things.


----------



## Sylvain

A chamfer at the bottom would limit the chance of splintering while dragging your bench around your shop.

on my comment herabove the word "pore" should be read "more" (the p is just above the M on an AZERTY keyboard)
The word "recomandation" should be read " recommendation".


----------



## lysdexic

Ryan, its interesting that you like the long taper. I kind of like them too but this may not be the best application. It is a matter of taste but it does raise the level of complexity. The first reaction I had was -pool table.


----------



## Bertha

I really like the look of the long taper too. As long as the front is flat and flush, I can't see how it would interfere with function. I guess you lose a bit of weight but you get some style for the trade. Having memorized lysdexic's benchtop, I doubt weight is going to be an issue. 
.
Lol Smutty
.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I like the short taper on the front elevation, but not from the side. Long taper, on the other hand, looks good on the sides but not so much on the front.

'I spy, with my smutty eye, a bench with open legs' in the last SU above.


----------



## donwilwol

I like the short taper, don't like the long taper, and in 1976, i'd have clear my bench for Linda Carter no matter what planes where on it!! Now I'd need the shavings for cushion anyhow.


----------



## lysdexic

Don, kudos for the carnivorous comment that simultaneous involves wonder woman and a woodworking bench.


----------



## donwilwol

Scott, I actually have a physiological tie between wonder women and hand plane. And I know as I write this it could be used in a court of law in my sanity suit, but since I'd loss that case anyhow, i might as well go on. Anytime I think of planes I think of Millers Falls planes, they were some of my first hand plane restores and I like Millers Falls, Because I like Millers Falls I'd love to own some Buck Rogers planes even though I think they are uglier than sin. For some explainable reason that I'm sure has to due with some adolescent misfortune I seem to equate Buck Rogers with Wonder women. Now tell me that doesn't make sense! I'm sure glad I can't afford therapy because it would cost me a fortune.


----------



## lysdexic

OK - that doesn't make sense :^) but I follow.


----------



## BrandonW

Scott, I also like the full taper better. It'd be more work of course, but I think it'd be worth it.


----------



## lysdexic

Wow, Brandon. Alot more of you guys like the long taper than I expected. I like it too. Probably won't execute it though. I assumed that it was too much of a departure from tradition to be accepted here.

My original idea was to begin the taper about 1/3 of the way down the leg from the top. The golden proportion suggests 38% down from tthe top.

From a purely warm, fuzzy, design, proportion sort of way I wondered if you could conjure up or echo the Greek letter Pi. I even studied some images but that is as far as I went.


----------



## bandit571

Since the only way i taper a leg nowadays (the wooden ones) is by using a handplane, just ain't gonna happen on THOSE four pillars. Tapering a nailly, old 4×6 beam into a Shaker Style tapered leg? By a handplane?? Ah, NOPE!


----------



## mochoa

My vote is against the full taper, it looks like a giant shaker end table not like a bench. Also your wife is more likely to move it into the house for use as a kitchen island or something.


----------



## RGtools

After weeping wailing nashing of teeth I have finally come up with a concept bench that I like for the type of work I do. I will be moving my bob and daves bench to a sheltered outdoor area for the classes and build my dream bench for the shop. I am still drawing the thing, which brings me to my question.

For those of you with legs vises: Are there rules for where the screw should be placed along the chop in relation to the guide and the top. I would think that maximizing the difference between the screw and the guide and the screw and the top (the latter being smaller) would help with mechanical leverage. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Ryan


----------



## lysdexic

Ryan, I don't have an answer for you. I can certainly try to help by giving the dimensions supplied by BenchCrafted.

More importantly I am anxious to see drawing. It will be interesting to see your intrepetation of a "dream bench."


----------



## RGtools

When I get home I will scan it in. Just a rough draft, but I was just having a hard time picking something that fit me. Right now I am basing my measurment on the assumtion that on a 32" tall bench the screw should land somewhere in the center of that (17" or under from the top). The reason I am asking is because the legs are on a splay, right now I have it on a 2/7 splay out. With an 8 inch wide chop, I can easily grab a peice vertily without hitting the screw….but that all depends on how high the screw should be. Off to do some reasearch.

What are the benchcrafted dims? Also how long is your wagon vise?


----------



## AnthonyReed

^ Right on, a new bench in the works.


----------



## Boatman53

What I have found out with leg vises after using them for thirty years, is they can wrack if you clamp on the edge of the chop or it is overly wide, the beam on the bottom should be in line with the screw and a close fit in the leg to help minimize wracking. The taller the chop is above the screw the the less clamping force for a give screw pressure, and more flexing of the chop. The further the lower beam is from the screw the less pressure on the pin and beam/chop mortice. If the chop was 12" above the screw and the beam was 12" below the screw the force on the workpiece and the beam would be equal. I have the LN screws on my vises two are 5" wide ( to match the leg width), 6" above the screw for clamping and 18" from screw to the top of the beam. Another vise is the same except that it is 6" wide.


----------



## DanKrager

Here is the assembly bench I've been wanting to build. Sorry, there is little traditional stuff involved. Yes, that's a salvaged hospital gurney underneath. That makes the 10" casters stop in their tracks when you apply the brakes and you can't move it. The height is adjustable with a hydraulic pump lift. And yes, John White's new fangled bench is one source of inspiration. Those nifty clamps are original with me. I've learned to make very cheap and fast turnbuckle bolts and knobs. The other side of the top is ready for clamps, but budget constraints held the second pair of clamps up for now. Notice how the side rails are used. A little bit of hardware change allowed them to latch in a position so they could serve as tool or part trays.


----------



## mochoa

Great input Boatman. Question, if I have a 2" wooden screw with a 3.5" hub does that allow me to have a wider chop? Would the bigger hub resist racking more?


----------



## mochoa

Dan thats impressive. Hard to beat that assembly table.


----------



## Boatman53

Mauricio.. Yes I think you would need a wider chop just to have enough wood on either side of the screw for strength and stiffness. Maybe I should start a thread just about vises and clamping. I've had to be quite creative at times and have several unique ones, homemade and old.


----------



## donwilwol

Dan that table certainly qualifies as Different. cool different, but different.


----------



## DanKrager

Thank you, Gentlemen, using the term sincerely. And yet you guys are about to make me jealous of those massive, furniture like benches. Maybe I'll just put a coat of shiny finish on the one I have… ?
Dan


----------



## RGtools

I still have some tweaking to do. Boatman, I think you are right about making the chop slimmer (though I believe that the angled leg vise would solve the racking issue you mentioned. ). As you can see I have not drawn the screw. Once I do I am going to have to lower the larger section of the chop a bit as well. Also I have not placed any rails for the end assemblies…I figured I would get the positioning of the holdfasts figured out first.









Bonus, you get a sample of my craptacular handwriting.

The biggest reason I want a new bench is that my current one is just not an accurate representation of my skills. It works fine, but a bench can be a bit of a business card. I want mine to say, "I make things that are functional and beautiful".

Any critiques as of yet? My biggest one is joining to top to the base, I have a few ideas but I am open to suggestion….obviously a through joint is out.


----------



## mochoa

I like it, Moravian with a slanted leg vise. I want one!


----------



## Boatman53

Yes when the chop is tilted like that it moves the centerline of the jaw to the right of the screw in a vertical plane. So even though you might be clamping a panel to the right of the screw, at bench height it is on centerline.


----------



## lysdexic

I like it, Roubo with slanted legs.


----------



## Bertha

Dan Krager, that's a genius bench!


----------



## Brit

Nice design Ryan. Slanting leg vises have got a lot going for them. As far as joining the top to the base, you could put a draw-bored stretcher at the top of each pair of legs (front to back). Make it the same angle as the legs when viewed from the side, but horizontal on top in line with the top of the legs. Two screws up through each stretcher into the top, the front two screws in a fixed position to keep the top in line with the front of the legs and the rear two screws in slots to allow for any expansion/contraction. It would be easier than cutting mortises in the top. However, I think with splayed legs, I would also be tempted to add a center stretcher (left to right) to counteract all the pounding you're going to be doing with that Iles pig sticker. 

I was reading last night that the schwarz now recommends 5/8" pegs for draw-bored joints in a bench rather than 1/2".


----------



## Boatman53

Ryan, with regards to the top to leg connection, keep in mind that in most cases the leg vise will be pushing all it's force on to the edge of the top. I would recommend something like a stub tenon from the leg into the top to counteract those forces. You can still use a screw as described above to hold the top down and make the top removable. I just don't think the shear strength of a screw alone is enough to resist the clamp force.


----------



## Brit

+1 for what Boatman said.


----------



## mochoa

Ryan check out the English Mcguire bench pictures, don't have link, I'm driving to destin, the splayed leg bench on there has a stub tenon like boatman is talking about.


----------



## Bertha

*I was reading last night that the schwarz now recommends 5/8" pegs for draw-bored joints in a bench rather than 1/2".*
.
One of his sponsors must have just come out with a 5/8" draw bore tool set


----------



## RGtools

A stub tenon was what I was thinking thus far (vertical like Andy said), you could get away with the deeper tenons; but only if I was making a knock down variant. The extra depth on the tenons would help pull the shoulders tight on the lower rail (I just would not use glue since assembly would already be tricky enough without the clock ticking) .

I agree that there needs to be a solid connection to resist the lateral forces of the leg vise. Some people have gotten away with dowels. I need more reassurance than that.

If at all possible I am trying to avoid the upper rail. On several occasions I have wanted a holdfast their and the rail interferes with that. That's why I am figuring out my holdfast positioning first and I am going to sneak the rails around those. As far as the holdfasts go, I think there are three really great places to put them. One that clamps verticly in a location that it just barely is under the top, this assists in planing narrow stock on edge. Next, one a tad shy of 20" from the top, this let's you edge plane most large carcase pieces and doors with ease. Last, one that this level with your vise screw (about 10-15" from the top) for everything in between.


----------



## RGtools

In regards to resisting pullout forces and adding a center stretcher. I have two funcional complaints about my current bench. The biggest one is I hate the position of the rail. It's so high that it gets in my way when I cross grain plane. I want to avoid that, but the added pressures to the lower stretcher are a bit worrisome to me as well. If that joint is made to resist pullout forces you would be OK. If that can't be accomplished I would possibly a center rail at the back end to stiffen things up.


----------



## Sylvain

Ryan,

About the screw position,

If you use a wooden scew and nut you might want to let the nut slide under the top. 
see http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=2793 .

In this case the position of the screw is more or less imposed by the dimension of the nut.


----------



## Bertha

I had planned on capturing the nut in a shallow mortise for the leg vise. Are they recommending against that? I guess if the square nut is flat against the underside of the benchtop, it should function just fine. Hmmmm


----------



## waho6o9

My biggest one is joining to top to the base, I have a few ideas but I am open to suggestion….obviously a through joint is out.

Why is a through joint out RJTools?

Nice bench design.


----------



## CartersWhittling

Just tap the nut yourself into the leg and there is no mortising involved, making a strong and simpler leg.


----------



## Bertha

^beyond my skill set, Carter. The Lake Eerie screw comes with a big square nut. I was going to cut a little depression for it and screw (etc) it into the back of the leg.


----------



## RGtools

The through joint is out because no matter how you plane the top you will be going against the grain on one of the legs end grain…one of the reasons to do a through joint is to show off, if the end grain breaks out it nullifies that effort.

Thanks for the link Sylvain. I was thiking about a standard acme for now…unless I take Mauricio up on his earlier offer.


----------



## Bertha

I always wondered why people did that, too, RG. If I did a half dovetail, half tenon, I'd want to be able to see it after all that work; I just wouldn't want to plane across it


----------



## Sylvain

Al 
about your #900;
that's what Kari Hultman did
http://villagecarpenter.blogspot.com/2012/05/roubo-installing-leg-vise.html

Note that she trimmed the nut to make it the same width as the leg.

I think it needs more precision then the free floating nut (her bench is a real piece of furniture), and you also need stable wood.
On the other side the free floating nut let you clap the vise without turning the handle when you stop use it.
if you look here
http://villagecarpenter.blogspot.com/2012_04_04_archive.html
you see the finished product from under.
She could have turned the nut 90° and trim it such that it would have slided against the top rail.

If you don't like the free floating nut you still can glue it afterwards. Just ensure that the back of the leg is parallel with the front of the leg before bench assembly.


----------



## DanKrager

Thanks, Al.


----------



## LeeJ

My bench dog.

Lee


----------



## Brit

Lee - He looks like a bundle of mischief.


----------



## Sylvain

I have to add to my comment hereabove that with the free floating nut the vise will not open by itself when turning the handle , you would have to pull it open.

You may or may not like that.


----------



## lysdexic

This is a great video that gives you a tour of an awesome workbench much like Carter's

The Edward's bench


----------



## Sylvain

If you look about 8' into the video, it seems Edward has a free floating nut for the leg vise


----------



## Bertha

Scotty, thank you for that video. wooden screw shoulder and tail. You're the breasts.


----------



## Boatman53

Not to derail the current discussion but I just organized my photo bucket album of my workbench build. There are captions for most photos explaining the thought process at the time. Any questions just ask. Jim

http://photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/workbench


----------



## lysdexic

Al,
That is the bench for you. You know it. I know it. Do not stop or settle until you achieve it.

Enjoyed it.


----------



## Brit

Jim - That's a great photo diary of a great bench and a great build. Definitely a bench to be proud of.


----------



## CartersWhittling

@ lysdexic, That is the same video that really inspired my bench design. Seems to have the best of both worlds.


----------



## Bertha

Carter, how often do you use that shoulder? How often does it get in the way? When it's the only thing that'll do, how often is that? How wonderful does it feel? The shoulder has a footprint while my shop is small footprint. I'm intrigued by it, though. I think I could incorporate it into my cosplay.
.


----------



## CartersWhittling

1. Although the shoulder vise doesn't have a screw to get in the way, which can be nice, the leg vise and sliding deadman are more versatile. 
2. I do not think there are any times where the shoulder vise was the only vise that could do a particular job.
3. The shoulder vise has a hard time, or cannot, hold small parts because it pivots.
4.I do not find the vise gets in the way. Perhaps if you were not use to it being there it might be annoying for a while though.
5. One of the major advantages the shoulder vise has is speed. Because it does not require using a pin to keep it from racking and there is no screw in the way, it is faster to use.

If I had to choose between the leg vise or shoulder vise I would pick the leg vise.


----------



## mafe

A horror movie!


----------



## bandit571

Might work for a for item that I want just to sit on a bench. maybe a Mitresaw, and a grinder? put your sharpening station on it? Cheap and easy build. Hide it a back corner of the shop, so all the "dirty work" will get done out of sight from Internet"s Prying Eyes…..


----------



## CartersWhittling

A horror movie, haha. Woodworker humor.


----------



## Brit

He would have been better off just screwing the 2×4s directly onto the legs.

It is a sad state of affairs when something like that passes as woodworking.


----------



## ktable

Check this one out guys!

http://www.benchmarktable.com/v/vspfiles/Benchmark_Pro_Package/#


----------



## CartersWhittling

I think I am going to be sick.


----------



## benchbuilder

Hi Guys,
I just built a leg vise with the rollers for the parallel guide, I built it, nothing from benchcraft. I did use a 1 1/8" dia. tail vise screw with the 17" of threads and over all length of 21 1/2' giving me a 101/2" opening with a 2 3/8" thick rear jaw. The screw is from lee vally. I am building another leg vise as this with the rollers for the parallel guide as I have two of these screws. If anyone is intersted I will sell it for a very low price. I made mine of SYP but could use maple if you want. contact me at "[email protected]" The leg vise is built so it can be attached with a tenon into the bottom of the bench top or mortised into the front edge of the bench, many oppts for this. I added the vise as a new leg on the back side of my bench at the left side. just works for me.


----------



## Bertha




----------



## BrandonW

Haha, thanks for the entertaining videos!


----------



## DanKrager

That's workbench porn…interesting but don't want to marry it.
Dan


----------



## DanKrager

I'm still cruising the project archive, and found this. 
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/19817
This guy might be on to something…
Dan


----------



## mochoa

Dang! I'd hate to drop a tool on those toes.


----------



## mafe

Kapuuuuuhaaaa plastic monster….
;-)


----------



## BrandonW

I'd love to see that guy's finished workbench. Crazy legs!


----------



## Sylvain

Paul Sellers announce a free bench course :

http://paulsellers.com/2012/06/perfect-pine-makes-perfect-benches/


----------



## waho6o9

Thanks for the link Sylvain.


----------



## DanKrager

Finished and delivered this workbench to a "customer". He is delighted with it!
http://photobucket.com/adjustableworkbench
The video should make clear how the height adjustment works. I ended up putting a pair of scissor jacks under it.
Dan


----------



## CartersWhittling

Thats a great idea Dan. One day I'll make a large assembly table, and perhaps the adjustable legs will be used. Thanks for posting.


----------



## Bertha

Got my Lake Eerie woodscrews, guys. Good grief, they are massive. I'll post pics tonight, or it didn't happen.


----------



## mochoa

Pretty cool bench Dan!

Al, congrats on the screws, does this mean we will see some progress on the bench soon?


----------



## mochoa

Regarding the Pual Sellars Workbench course, I love Sellars and I'm sure his bench works great but its just not much in the looks department.


----------



## BrandonW

On that link to the Paul Sellers page, he writes:

As a woodworker I could never buy a workbench no matter how well it was made, how good it was or how little time I had.

I tend to agree with this quote becuase whether a hobbyist or a professional, making a workbench is a right of passage and a learning experience. Plus, every time you use it, you find yourself smiling.

But then he writes:

European softwoods were the wood of choice even when most if not all European countries had access to hardwoods. Pine or spruce, hemlock or Douglas fir, I have used them all with equal measure. You need have no fear that pine will not hold up to the wear and tear of everyday work no matter the weight or the demands you place on it, so let's get down to the lumberyard and choose our wood.

This is interesting because almost every workbench I've ever seen from Europe is built with Beech. I agree that pine or douglas fir can make a decent bench, but I never thought they were the dominant choice of material in Europe. Interesting.

Mauricio, do you have a link to what Sellers' bench looks like?


----------



## mochoa

Yeah what I gathered from what he wrote is that most anyone making a bench for themselves would use Pine while the commercially available ones were made of hardwood.

Its very English if you look at it. Here is a lumberjock who made one out of oak. http://lumberjocks.com/KTMM/blog/29498


----------



## mochoa

more pics from his school http://www.newlegacywoodworking.com/2012/01/02/workbench-assembly/


----------



## mochoa

For those of you considering slanted legs on your workbench Paul Sellars had a blog recently about chairs that I found very useful. http://paulsellers.com/2012/05/more-flawed-concepts-from-fw/

I was going to do the Roy Underhill style bench with the rising dovetails. I really wasn't in love with the rising dovetails but it's the only way I could see to match the angle of the tenon/slanted mortise of the back legs.









I was thinking of doing a straight tenon (not through the top) on the front leg and an angled tenon on the back but I was not sure of the strength. Paul's blog made me feel comfortable that it would hold up. I think if it works in chairs it should work on this bench also.

This is straight tenon for the back legs similar to what Underhill did. 









This second picture is what I think I'm going to do. It will make a straight tenon on the front leg possible because they will all match and make assembly easier.


----------



## Sylvain

Mauricio,
You could not assemble the worbench with
"a straight tenon (not through the top) on the front leg and an angled tenon on the back"

you must 
either make straight tenon back and front 
or angled back and front (same angle to slide the top on the tenons after assembling the base).


----------



## mochoa

Sylvain, yes, thats what I was trying to say, thanks.

My concern was that this type of tenon would not be strong enough for the back legs:









After reading Paul Sellars blog and understanding that this is the tenon used in chairs for centuries I'm pretty sure it would hold up for my workbench. So with this tenon I will be able to make the front and back tenons all enter at the same angle, vertically.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Grats Al.

Good stuff Mauricio. Thanks.


----------



## Sylvain

IMHO
I would say, for the chair, there is a compromise (a balance?) to be made between the srength of the tenon and the strength of the mortise.

In the workbench there is no risk for the (back) mortise because the top is so much wider than the tenon, so you can optimise the tenon strength (tenon in the axis of the slanted leg). For the front you have to follow the choice made for the back.

[I have heard that "compromise" has a negative connotation in UK English or in US English but I don't remember in which one; in French it depends of what you are speaking about]


----------



## BrandonW

Mauricio, I'd just attach it with a couple of pocket screws and be done with it.


----------



## mochoa

Sylvain I think compromise is the right word in this instance. Your english is great by the way. 
If I did the back tenon in the same axis as the leg then I'd be back to making the rising dovetail for the front which I dont think I want to do any more.

Here is a quick sketch on a paper towel:









I think the forces excerted on the tenon wont break it.

Pocket screws would be easier though, maybe Kreg sells some gigantic ones?


----------



## BrandonW

Mauricio, just curious-what's the angle of the back legs?


----------



## mochoa

Around 15 degrees?


----------



## Sylvain

Mauricio,
with a proper design, the small strength you lost in the back tenon will be compensated by the strength gained with a closed front mortise 
IMO the open front mortise seems to be the weak point in the rising dovetail design.


----------



## Bertha

Got my Lake Eerie screws. Incredible quality, fit, and finish. Unless Mauricio or Carter will make you one, these are the nicest I've seen in person. Insanely good customer service with e-mail updates at every step. Actually really unusually good for these crummy times (serious). Recommend A++++++. That being said, if any one wants to hack them, I'll take any measurement you'd like (sorry Lake Eerie, I'm a woodworker, after all)
.

In comparison to a 3/4 ton truck seat (don't ask, lol):
.








.
In comparison to a machine you all own:
.


----------



## BrandonW

Congrats, Al! I can't wait to see your bench when you finish it. That second picture really does a good job of showing just how big that screw is. Maybe one of these days I'll switch out my Veritas screw for a nice big wooden one.


----------



## lysdexic

I am proud of you for keeping the comparisions wholesome but i know your sense of humor tempted you otherwise.


----------



## waho6o9

That's one beefy wooden screw Al, congrats. Can't wait to see it on your workbench.


----------



## CartersWhittling

Those screws sure look purdy. How many did you purchase? And what vises are they for?


----------



## Bertha

Lysdexic, it was fine going in; bit chafing coming out. Artistically, wasn't entirely satisfied with what was proud of the nut at the end of it all. Uploaded photos to alternative site. PM me.
.
Carter, they are indeed purdy. I bought two in total. The one destined for the leg vise got the pretty brass split external garter. The one for the tail vise (planned to be a copy of Smitty's) just got a simple wooden internal garter. The garters engage tightly. High quality stuff, man. I have you to thank for this whole wooden screw idea (seriously). Until I saw your blog, I had no idea that there were modern makers. Meaning, I wasn't talented enough to pursue your method, but have Google


----------



## mafe

What a nice screw, I am also deeply jealous of the thicknesser!
Sexy stuff.
Best thoughts Al,
Mads


----------



## mafe

BTW love your comparison.


----------



## Bertha

Thank you, Mads! I haven't seen nuts this bold and sexy since I got my bathroom mirror replaced


----------



## mafe

Laugh.


----------



## dbray45

TMI


----------



## bernwood

My original post was #315 and we've all seen lots of beautiful benches since then. I would be afraid to work on some of them. Quite a few innovative benches like the one on the porch railing. My bench is actually an old solid core door with a pretty make over, but it's serving me well. I keep adding to it like this swivel vise and saw horse type of additions. With the T track system, I add or dismount things in a matter of seconds.


----------



## DanKrager

While I agree that in a workbench with massive angled tenons, strength and longevity won't be a problem. I disagree respectfully about the use of it in chair back legs where the material is much smaller. I've "repaired" so many of them that I have come to believe there has to be a better way for chairs, and there is. A loose tenon is easy to install and much stronger. Could be done on this bench too for what it's worth.
Dan


----------



## mochoa

Bernie, I remember your bench, very innovative design, there isn't anything you can't do with that bench.

Sylvain thanks for your thought and input on my Tenon question. I think your right that the large closed tenon on the front will add any strength lost on the back tenon.

Dan, I will draw the tenon out on the back leg before cutting it. I expect that there will be a lot of grain running the full length of the tenon since it will be so big. If not I'll consider the lose tenon, I was actually chatting with Brandon via PM about the same thing but he told me that floating tenons are for sissys. ;-), but seriously, it would have so much bearing surface on the top of the leg that it would be easy to remove most of the waste freehand with an electric router. And, it would give me more length on the leg if I need any.

It's very interesting that your experience is so different from Paul Sellers and that you have actually repaired a lot of angled tenons.


----------



## CartersWhittling

I repair furniture and have repaired dozens of chairs in the last few months. Only one chair I have repaired had angled tenons, all the others were dowelled. Based off the chairs I get, dowels do not last as long as real tenons, angled or not.


----------



## DanKrager

Absolutely agree about the weakness of dowels. Usually it was the grooved commercial kind that needed repair first. The angled tenons I replaced were always broken at the short grain exiting the tenon on both cheeks. They just couldn't offer the leverage of a long grain tenon. A loose tenon angling into grain is stronger than an angled tenon. Would Mauricio even consider BIG dowels? I hope not.
Liked the poke! Sissy, my *&# (mortise).
But this is about workbenches, and it will be interesting to see what Mauricio decides to do. Keep posting Mauricio!

Dan


----------



## CartersWhittling

Yes I agree. Can't wait to see the bench, whenever it is done.


----------



## dbray45

Instead of dowels, I have used brass pins to keep things together and they can offer a cool look as well.


----------



## mochoa

This wooden screw thing is slowing me down, I've got another blank ready to turn this weekend, Hopefully I can figure it out and get it to come out chip free. Once thats done I can square up my legs (already have 2 sides of each leg done) then I'll start cutting some M&T's to attache the legs to my top.


----------



## KenBry

Man, I finally have been able to start work on my bench again. I bought a new jointer plane to help smooth my top. I am finally able to start working on my dog rail. Pictures will get posted this weekend. My Top is weighing in at 150+ lbs it's a pain to move around the shop.

I got slowed down the last month or so, had hyrnia surgery LOL… Shouldn't be trying to move that top around but I can't help my self.


----------



## donwilwol

New bench addition (should say modification I guess)


----------



## Brit

Looking good Don.


----------



## donwilwol

last one for the vise.


----------



## mochoa

Hey, for those of you who dont have Paul Sellers on your buddy list, he just started a blog series on workenches. 
http://lumberjocks.com/PaulSellers/blog/30430


----------



## DanKrager

...and I found this to be of great interest. A quick acting vise easy to install with a traditional look. Even twin handles are cool…

http://www.workbenchdesign.net/lenvise.html
http://www.hovartercustomvise.com/?page_id=63

Dan


----------



## mochoa

Don, that vise is very nice by the way, great restoration!

Dan that Lenko vise is pretty nice, wow they have a leg vise too? To my knowledge this would be the only quick release self-paralleling leg vise on the market. Even the Benchcrafted vise isnt quick release, its quick, but not quick release.


----------



## Sylvain

Having looked at the Schwarz blog about the cross vise,
one commentator said that the Horvater leg vise can be set-up in such a way that when you turn the handle to clamp something, the above rod moves inward to clamp, and the rod below moves outwards in such a way as to pinch the piece at the top of the vise.
Parallelism is not necessarilly a desirable goal.
One advantage of the Horvater system is that you don't have to change the bottom pin even if you clamp pieces very different in thickness


----------



## mochoa

True, there is really no adjustability with the cross.


----------



## DanKrager

Yah, I was pretty impressed with the Horvater vice hardware, enough so that between it and you guys, I may get the wants. It is pricey, but not any worse than benchcrafted or veritas. 
Dan


----------



## Boatman53

I did some testing on my leg vise today, and thought I'd share the results. The screw is from Lie-Nielsen. The gauge is set about 5" above the screw. This reading is more than needed in use based on handle torque. It can actually go higher but I'm not fond of destructive testing.
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/f301971d.jpg

This photo is at the lower beam 18" below the screw.
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/08084edf.jpg

This photo is 12" below the screw. I took this measurement because several people I've talked with have their beam that close. 
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/c0ee8a0f.jpg
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/33462096.jpg


----------



## mochoa

Wow, nice pics Jim, thats plenty enough clamping pressure for woodworking.

I like the shape of your vise chop, is that ash?


----------



## Sylvain

Jim, 
could you explain what your gauge is measuring.

It seems to be graduated in psi. What is the area of the piston in the sensor?
Does it translate directly in Lbf?


----------



## Boatman53

Yes the gauge is measuring pounds per square inch. And shows what the vise is capable of. The camping area of the jaw for practical purposes is 5×5" or 25 square inches so if I was clamping a big panel that 1600 pounds works out to 64 pounds per square inch over the whole jaw. What I was also interested in sharing though was as the beam gets closer to the screw the pressure on the mortice and pin goes up. Also on at least one Shwartz bench I think he has 12" above the screw, so has PSI will be lower the further he is from the screw. Not to say that it doesn't work, just some numbers for informational purposes. You wood screw builders, make sure the nut threads fit well and there are enough of them. The pressure on the screw is even higher (I think it should be twice what the jaw shows) if I remember my physics of levers correctly.


----------



## Sylvain

Jim,
thank you for the explanation.


----------



## mochoa

Couple of good workbench blogs from Paul Sellers this week. http://paulsellers.com/paul-sellers-blog/

I got to say, workbenches made with that "Whitewood" from the big box stores look pretty nice.


----------



## BrandonW

If it is anything like the "Whitewood" (Spruce?) at the local Home Depot, then it dents just by looking at it. I would definitely prefer SYP over that if one wants to go cheap. Still, I'm a sucker for a hard wood bench.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah, there is just something about hardwood…


----------



## Brit

I think it's the fact that it's hard Mauricio. )


----------



## mochoa

Thats what she said! ), sorry thats the best I could come up with, this is usually Al's department.


----------



## BrandonW

That's a good "Al" comeback. The only thing missing is some sort of jab against Scott.


----------



## Brit

LOL. You need a witty cartoon or image to go with it too Mauricio. On second thoughts, you'd better not.


----------



## mochoa

It took me a whole day to come up with that one so I'm definitely no substitute for AL.
I just did a Google image search for "Thats what she said" but didnt see anything good.


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## mochoa

Nice!


----------



## lysdexic

I googled "workbench smackdown" just for the fun of it and this is the first image listed


----------



## donwilwol

Is that Mads?


----------



## mochoa

yeah, thats Mads bench, he added that little side shooting pice to the side which was his invention I think


----------



## mochoa

A question for the esteemed panel about angled tenons….

The tenons on my bench will be pretty beefy so I'm sure an angled tenon will be plenty strong, but how about I drill out and drive in some vertical dowels (3/8") the length of the tenon? It will be pretty easy and add a little more insurance. The only problem is that I'm going to be drawboring the tenons so I have to be sure they don't interfere with each other.


----------



## mochoa

A visual reminder about what we talked about.


----------



## CartersWhittling

Thats an interesting idea, I have never thought about that. I can't say whether or not its a good idea. I probably wouldn't bother, the tenon should be strong enough. With stretchers connecting the legs the angled legs will not open up.


----------



## mochoa

True, good point Carter.


----------



## donwilwol

i don't think its necessary. Once the stretchers are fastened there shouldn't be much stress.


----------



## KenBry

ARG!!!!!!!!!!

Dove tails or no Dove tails that is the question….
So I have been slow leak building my workbench and I am at the point where I MUST make up my mind. I am cutting out the end cap on my Roubo and I like the dove tails on the Woodwhisperer's bench cap. But I really wonder to my self if I need to bother or not. I am sure it will teach me a thing or two, but I just want to get this top DONE… This is the last major part I have left before I glue up the dog rail and the outer rail and cap.

Oh and yes, I am scared to cut out the Dove tails because if I screw it all up I will hate my self.


----------



## mochoa

Ken dont let fear stop you. If thats what you really have your heart set on you should do it. Its not hard to cut a DT and you can just be carefull and work incrementally.

Is the DT just a 1" face piece into the tails on a thicker end cap?


----------



## bandit571

Angled tenons: Do them the same way that Timber Framers do, they House them. That way, there is a "shoulder" to support the joint.

Shorten the tenon by an inch, or less, say 1/2". Mark the area where the joint will be. not just the mortise, the whole area. Dig out the mortise, and make it square. Fit the (now) too short tenon into the mortise.. Mark the rest of the joint. Chisel out the "waste' around the tenon. Go down until the part can seat into the whole joint. Pin the joints when done. Examples? Go look at the old style collar ties, or the braces use for the rafters. Try it some time, just a 2×4 cut at a 45. make a tenon on it's end. make a mortise into a 4×4 scrap. Now create the housing. might take a try or two….


----------



## KenBry

Mauricio,

The recomended DT is about 1 inch deep by 1" long..The pin portion doesn't worry me to much, I think I will cut them on the band saw using a jig. I saw a picture on the WW web site that shows it. The recieving end is what concerns me..Also I need to be sure I want to do this, I may end up needing to make the cap removable since I havn't got the benchcrafted Vise yet… and who knows when those will be availble again….
(forgot to mention the vise in the other post)


----------



## donwilwol

Ken, if your going to hate yourself every time you make a mistake in woodworking you might have the wrong hobby. Mauricio gave some good advice. If you didn't have your heart set on DTs, they are certainly not needed.


----------



## KenBry

I know it was good advice… I wouldn't say Hate… but it's one of those things, I'll look at it later and wonder what it would look like if I did the Dove tails…This bench has been a Monster of a project for me and I am trying to do it right. 
The Darn fact that the vise went out of production really messed me up.


----------



## mochoa

Bandit that makes sense, sounds like it would be pretty strong. I think I'm going to go for the straight angled tenon. It will be about 1.5" thick so I think it will be pretty strong.


----------



## lysdexic

Ken,
I cut the dovetails for the TWW bench cap and it was surprisingly reproducible and predictable. I detailed the process in my blog and, if you decide to go with the DT's, I would be glad to help as much as I can.

Scott.


----------



## KenBry

Thanks Scott, I need to go back and re-read your blog.


----------



## mochoa

I cut my angled tenons last night. And this is what one looks like! 









As you can see most of the grain runs the full length of the tenon.


----------



## BrandonW

Looks great! I think they'll hold up nicely.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks kinda crooked to me.

;-)

Very sharp indeed!

I am more than ready to see this splayed leg bench become a reality!


----------



## waho6o9

Awesome angled tenons Mauricio, it will be very sturdy.

Go for the DT's Ken!


----------



## mochoa

Thanks guys.

Smitty, your ready to see this thing come together? Then Imagine how ready I am… ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I wonder if you've actually had this thing done for a few weeks now and are just stringing us along… That's what' Scott's doing with his bench build.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

... maybe …

;-)


----------



## mochoa

Thats what Brandon did… his bench is finished and he still hasnt finished blogging about it. ;-)


----------



## RGtools

Thanks for higlighting the long grain on that. It really does show how this could work out well if planned properly. No more short grain than a well executed dovetail…consider any doubts I had about this de-bunked.


----------



## Boatman53

I agree they look good to me also.


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio,

Drinking while woodworking is generally not encouraged :^)


----------



## mochoa

Says the man with a freshly pored draft beer in the background of every shop pic…. ;-)

Thanks for all your input on this fellas.


----------



## lysdexic

Alright Mauricio. From now on, when I take a shop pic I will ensure the beer is empty.


----------



## mochoa

Thats the spirit.

The funny thing is that I was drinking, I had to look back at my blog pics to see where the beer showed up. Its in there, its just camouflaged in a Rockler wood grain beer can cozy.


----------



## lysdexic

That is a cherry-vanilla diet coke.


----------



## lysdexic

Smitty called me out on the bench build. I am, in fact, done. I have been done for a while. I guess I should post a pic of the final product.


----------



## donwilwol

looks like Scott's been done a LONGGGGG time


----------



## lysdexic

Alrighty, I will soon begin to assemble my base using a draw bore technique. Is it worth super drying my peg stock? I am (over) thinking that if I make and install the pegs super dry then as the re-swell in the garage the fit will be even tighter.

Is this even worth the trouble?
If so, how would I go about making them extra dry ( other than soaking the pegs in Vermouth)

Sank you!?


----------



## RGtools

I don't think it would be worth the extra benefit (though it's a nice technique for chair parts), pull out stresses just are not going to be a factor here. The bend in the pin would resist those anyway. Furthermore, a peg that has a bit of moisture still in it is less likely to explode on you.

If you still want to dry them out, a heat lamp has been used successfully for the chair application, I see no reason it would not work on a few pegs. You could even use a blow dryer if you have one.


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## mochoa

I've zapped stuff in the microwave, both for drying and for making sure any bugs are dead. But with smaller pieces like dowels its hard not to burn them, it smells up the whole house, the wife gets piissed…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

If I were convinced that dry pegs are critical, I might put them in a ziplock w/ instant rice (uncooked, of course) to have moisture drawn out….

Scott, that's a nice bench. What color stain did you use?


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## lysdexic

Thank you Smitty. I used Watley's antique walnut to match the one at Crate and Barrel. Sorry, about the pic. A usually like to soften the lines of the bench with a Boston fern.


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## KenBry

Sometimes it's tough to believe I have turned this pile of sticks









Into this pile of orginized sticks. It's only clamped to hold the dog rail and outer rail on. 









Also you can see the cut out I have made for the future benchcrafted tail vise.









I mortice and tenoned the end cap on to the bench instead of the Dovetails.









Next, I have to drill all the holes to hold the end cap on and for the Vice mounting hardware to fit through.


----------



## waho6o9

Good looking bench top Ken, keep doing the good work.


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## KenBry

And that's just the bottom of the top. I will most likely glue the dog rail and outer rail later this week. I get only about 4 hours on Saturdays to work at a time. The rest of the weekend belongs to the family. Also it's 105-110 degrees and that's no fun to work in a garage then.


----------



## lysdexic

Nicely done Ken. That thang is massive. Your wood looks alot like mine. (Man, Al would bust me for saying something like that)

Are you still waiting for the BC vises? Did you get both?


----------



## KenBry

I am planning on the tail vise for now. The leg vise will wait. Benchcrafted is still reworking all the vise wheels but planning on ordering as soon as they reinable ordering.


----------



## mochoa

I little preview:









I laid a 24" piece of MDF on top to see what the top might look like in proportion to the base once the tool tray is added.


----------



## mochoa

Ken that benchtop is looking amazing by the way. I love all the character in that wood.


----------



## KenBry

Thanks Mauricio, The thing is all that character is going to be facing down. The Top surface isn't as colorful, I wanted the top to be knot free and it basically is.

Tonight I start working on the Legs.


----------



## Mosquito

Looking good Mauricio!

I also agree with Mauricio, Ken, that your bench top is looking good. Shame it'll be on the underside… maybe some floor mirrors are in order!


----------



## BrandonW

Great benches, Ken and Mauricio! Ken what type of wood is that again? It's hard to tell from my little screen. Mauricio, it's getting really close.


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## lysdexic

Mauricio,
are my eyes fooling me? In the first pic it appears that the right front leg is splayed but the left is vertical. I assumed that both front legs would be perpendicular to the top (ie regular legs).


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Mos and Brandon, now for the stretchers.

Brandon that QTWO I got from Peachstate Lumber is going to work out perfectly and look great. I can easily get a long and short stretcher out of each of the pieces. I may have enough length to do the through dovetailed/wedged tenons I was thinking about.

Question for you guys about glue up strategy; what do you guys think about Hide Glue? Titebond sells a ready to use kind.

The reason I'm thinking of it is because:
1) It has longer open time (I'm also drawboaring the tenons) 
2) I read it's a little more forgiving of gappy joints (according to Adam Charubini). My joints are not super lose, but not super tight either. 
3) I hear its what Schwarz likes for his workbenches. He talked about it in his recent Germany workbench class, though his book and blogs have some contradictory info.

I know if I'm drawboring I technically don't even need glue so this will just be gravy.

What do you guys think, have any of you used Hide Glue in the past?


----------



## carguy460

Mauricio - sorry, no educated answer on the ready to use hide glue, but I have the same question rattling around in my head…I notice that in the "galoot" world, hide glue is thrown around ALOT, so I wonder about switching from my cheap elmers crud…


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio,

I have used real hide glue at the Woodwright's school but only there. It was for a small box so I can't speak to using it on a massive bench.

I am draw boring and using glue as well. I plan on using Titebond III and performing sub-assemblies.


----------



## Brit

What Scott said.


----------



## KenBry

Brandon, The bench top is hard brown Maple #2 Common grade, darn near pallet grade. I got it real cheap.

The End cap and front rail are soft Maple.

Brown maple is hard maple heartwood.


----------



## BrandonW

Mauricio, I'd go with the hide glue, for two reasons. You can say you used hide glue AND it's going to be reinforced with the drawboring.

Thanks Ken.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm still at Titebond vII, haven't done the upgrade to III. 

There's nothing compelling me to look at hide glue other than chatter. It can be warmed and reversed, which is cool I guess, but I don't do that kind of stuff. I'm a glue noob.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks for the input guys. I've always wanted to try hide glue because glue ups are always so stressfull. I like the idea of all that open time. I'll sleep on it…

Scott that tenon was a little long so it was bottoming out. It has since been trimmed and fits much better.


----------



## lysdexic

What is the relative open time of hide versus TB III?


----------



## mochoa

I dont know, my TB III bottle says keep clamped for 30min which is the same as the II. I think hide glue has got to be longer than that. Also schwarz recommends assembling everything all at once, which makes sense to me, I'd like the longer open time.


----------



## CartersWhittling

Hide glue doesn't have longer open assembly time than yellow glues (I have personally only used Liquid Hide glue though). Hide glue tacks quicker especially when the air is cooler. Liquid hide glue has longer open time because of the urea in it. I am not saying do not use hide glue, I just don't think assembly time would be a reason to use it.


----------



## ksSlim

Liquid hide glue and titebond III, in my area have about the same open time. Using draw bores, as you said, the glue is gravy. Using drawbores, you might need longer open time. Adhesion facts indicate that not soaked with water. TBII holds as well as TBIII,


----------



## rasp

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/63915

total ~schwing~ workbench


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## lysdexic

rasp,

Your right that is a nice, nice bench. I am most intrigued by the removable tool tray. Hmmmm.


----------



## Bertha

If drawboring, I'd probably use the hide glue if only for conversation. I've seen the premixed Titebond offering but I'm a bit skeptical. No reason to be, really; just skeptical.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks for the input Carter, very helpful. But when you say "Liquid Hide Glue" what do you mean? Are you referring to the tight bond stuff or the real one you have to warm?

I was going to try the Titebond HG once, I bought it at my local Ace Hardware, it was cured solid in the bottle, probably doesnt turn much at that store. So I still havent tried it.


----------



## waho6o9

As I recall,Hide glue's shelf life is 1 year as we were informed from a fellow LJer.

You might want to check into that before you build your awesome bench. Personally I'd use TBIII.


----------



## ssnvet

Here's my humble offering…. not the "best" by any measure… but it's te best I've ever had and it is getting a LOT of use.

I posted it as a project if you want see more of it.

The project was really a "work bench salvage and upgrade".... but in hind sight I'll share some of the more interesting points and things I learned here.

The generic hard maple work bench tops you buy from industrial supply companies, have threaded rod running width wise every ~16" hidden inside (counter bored holes in the outer strip have a plug capping them). This must be how thy "clamp" their glue ups and get a lot of them done in a short period of time. The bench top I salvaged was badly chared (from some dubber welding on it) and worn…. but the price was right.

We use a special 4" dia. face mill with indexable carbide inserts to mill the spoil board flat on our CNC at work, so I used that to mill the bench top and bottom…. but it only left me with a top that was only 1.5" thick.

So this brings up a second point of interest…... as far as I can tell…. straight grained hard maple that is OLD (this top has seen at least 25 years since it was purchased new…. is really, really stable.

To increase the thickness and rigidity of the top, I laminated two layers of 3/4" MDO together and then laminated them to the bottom of the maple top. I also added a perimeter band (used some old and very dry red oak boards I had left over from the construction of my house) to cover over the vise face and to suppot the tray. I put the effort into mitering the corners to fit very tight, but I was not sure about running the band across the end grain, with concern that the maple would "move" and the miters open up. So far, there is no indication that the bench top is moving at all….. and the mitered corners are nice and tight.

The legs may not appeal to a purist…. but I will say this…. steel is strong!

And now that the bench has been in service some six months, I know why some people don't like tool trays…. as they habitually fill up with junk. But since I'm a pack rat and the junk is going to be laying around anyways, at least the tray allows me to push it out of the way.

Last lesson learned…. construction adhesive (liquid nails) has absolutely no place in the shop…. :^(

I'm a shade over 6' and have both my benches (and the third one I'm in the process of building) at 34". I'm not a neanderthal, though, so I don't have as much need for using my body weight when planing or chopping.

enough rambling…. happy trails.


----------



## lysdexic

ssnvet,

That is all good info. I have a Sears type workbench that is 8' long like so…..










After my current traditional workbench build I plan modify this guy to make a joinery bench. As it stands it is 36" inches tall and I plan on adding wooden feet like you did to bring it to 38". The top is one of those mass produced maple tops at 1.75". It has a steele rail at the back but not at the front. At 8' long it already has 1/8" or so sag.

My thoughts are to add a front rail flush with the top or rigidity and clamping surface and add a leg 2/3 down the length and allow room for a rolling tool box.

I may place a moxon vise on the front skirt.

Have any of you guys built or designed a "joinery" bench like Tolpin has in his book?


----------



## mochoa

Thats a nice bench ssnvet, I feel the same way as you about the tool well, I always have crap on my bench, it would be nice if it sat below the surface and doesnt get knocked off.

Scott the joinery bench is a good idea. I'm planning on making a benchtop bench in the future which will be nice for joinery and carving.


----------



## ssnvet

The little skirt boards were supposed to hold drawer slides so I could add a down draft table that pulls out the back for sanding.

Not sure if I'm going to go that way or not now…. I'm rehabbing an old cabinet saw and sill have to see how much room I have left once I have it set up with an outfeed table.


----------



## Bertha

ssnvet, that's a solid looking bench. I've got no beef whatsoever with a steel undercarriage. Scott, I'm considering adding a shoulder vise to my tiny bench for dedicated joinery work. I can't seem to escape the thought of a shoulder vise. I can't remember the last time I cut dovetails wider than a drawer but I still like the idea of a shoulder. Of course, the moxon makes a lot of sense too. Benchcrafted is pretty proud of their rig $$ but it's awful pretty.


----------



## rasp

ahhhh. I had a workbench project on the go. I spent quite a bit of time setting up two saw horses, then four 72" long pieces of 1 1/2" heavy wall steel square tubing. (heavy wall costs a bit more but does not sag over this span) these steel tubes were leveled/shimmed to each other and considerably flat. on top of those i laid a piece of MDF, and then the beech IKEA top, laminated poplar strips to where I figured the bench dog holes would go, and filled in the rest with relatively inexpensive 3/4" MDF.










the result was a 3 3/8" thick top 29 1/2" by 60", which I was going to wrap with 1" thick boards all around, finger jointed on the corners, and splined or biscuited to the edge of the slab.

so I was quite proud to see that, when I unclamped this heap of dust and glue, it was still flat.

bad news, i didn't have a base made to put the top on (should have built that first).. i really like that extruded aluminum, gives you a lot of options. a steel base would be fine too, but i wanted something to make, a big heavy set of legs and stringers or something.

anyways, I went on a little visit to Nova Scotia, couldn't leave the slab laying flat and clamped. I was gone for three weeks, and it's been a 6-7 weeks since I've gotten back, so maybe 10-12 weeks since I glued it up.. and…










ay caramba.. I know levels is not a straight edge, but this level has a machined edge and that's close enough for me. so I was thinking that I'd have to cut about 10 relief cuts into the bottom side, then clamp the slab to the steel bar setup again, try to flex it straight, then fill the relief cuts with thin strips of wood to keep it from cupping back. any advice on this ? scrap it? burn it?

so that's my workbench, y'all doin' much better than me


----------



## RGtools

Rasp. Before you go cutting strips in one side: You may be able to fist the problem with some beefy aprons underneath the top. If the aprons were straight you could bolt though the top and the aprons to pull the warp out of the top. 4"-5" wide aprons would probably suffice.

That sounds like the simplest way to do it to me.


----------



## KenBry

Just Square it back up using a router sled. Then add a layer under it.


----------



## waho6o9

Build the base

Install top crown up

Gravity, aprons, make it flat like a pancake Rasp.


----------



## mochoa

That sucks Rasp, I would have thought it would bow the other way since the wood should shrink more on the exposed side. What about laying it in the sun, wood side up? That may make that side shrink more to the point of getting it flat enough to add the apron and mount it to the steel base.

I'm making more progress on my bench, got some tenons cut on the short stretchers and two mortises cut on the front legs. Now to align everything and lay out the tenons on the back of the short stretchers.

This thing is getting heavy!


----------



## lysdexic

Looks good Mauricio. Those M&T on the splayed leg will be tricky. Remind me, what wood are you using?


----------



## mochoa

Yeah, I'm going to need the wifes help pulling everything to the correct agles and then strike the line for the angled tenon shoulder.

Its mostly red oak, the top is all quarter sawn. I also scored some cheap quartersawn white oak for the stretchers.


----------



## RGtools

You are so close Mauricio. Agreed, the joinery on the back should be interesting. Direct layout (as shown) is the way to go. Some battens might help keep everything in the right place while you mark?


----------



## mochoa

I know Ryan, I'm getting so close its driving me crazy, cant stop. Clamping a batten is not a bad idea, I was clamping the stretcher itself but the batten might work better, I can make it so I rest the stretcher on the batten for marking.

But I have been spending too much time in the shop, need to spend some time with the wife. Isn't that one of The Schwarz' rules of workbench building? You must stay married while you build your workbench…


----------



## mochoa

Another glue question (same question asked differently). Whats the best glue for long open time and good filling in gappy joints? My joints are not gappy of course… I'm asking for a friend of mine. Mine fit like a glove…. ;-)

Schwarz book recommends some kind of epoxy. But then in his recent Germany blog video it says he likes hide glue, whatever…

I could always go hard core galoot and not use glue at all? Part of me wants to do that just to see how it works. I'm just dreaming about how stress free that assembly would be…


----------



## donwilwol

i always use titebond iii. For me it has always had enough open time(sometimes to much, I'm impatient). To fill gappy joints I still use titebond iii with sawdust (it collects behind my RAS below the collection pipe). Fill the gap with glue and rub the saw dust in. (if some one else cut the joint real bad, you may need to mix the sawdust and glue first)


----------



## lysdexic

Did he really say that?


----------



## Brit

I'd recommend Titebond lll too, but it sounds like you need to take your friend aside and show him how to mark out the joint properly and then saw to the line. He'll be your friend forever once he gets it. In the meantime, tell him not to feel too bad. We've all done it.


----------



## mochoa

Ok, I think I'll just stop being a woose and use TB III, my joints aren't that gappy, a lot tighter that what Peter Follansbee cuts if you watch is Woodright episode on joint stools. My tenons are fine, it's the motises, drilling them out with a forstner bit then paring them square leaves a lot of room for error… I'm just overthinking things…


----------



## donwilwol

I have a background were I have many friends who can cross the line.


----------



## RGtools

another vote for titebond. Hide glues have some great advantaves but hopefully none of them should be needed on a workbench (finish invisability and reversability)

Yes, you must stay married while you build your bench. Same applies for tool storage…and most other projects.

Don, I would judge you but Andy is right…guilty.


----------



## Brit

Mauricio - When it matters, a simple alignment jig can help. I saw this on Paul Sellers blog.


----------



## mochoa

Hmm, not a bad idea, I may try that on the next mortise.


----------



## lysdexic

Don, I got a chuckle out of that. While at work, there may be a long time between me reading a post and submitting a response. My question was aimed at Schwarz's comment about staying married during the bench build. I get it - because objections have been made by my wife and kids concerning my time in the shop.

My disbelief was not aimed at your sawdust and glue technique (which I like BTW).

Sorry.

I switched to TB III for the bench build based on the recommnendation of Rick (the fellow that I buy my lumber). He does a lot of glue ups and he is a pro. Thats hard to argue with


----------



## rasp

i'm a little confused about the aprons..

so the aprons would run the length of the top? or along the width of the top? I'd need about 4 rails to span the width to clamp it down (or bolt it down) flat again, then wrap with 1" thick aprons, 5-6 inches wide?

or do you mean drill holes in the top and torque bolts down to flatten it to a steel base, THEN add aprons?


----------



## donwilwol

Rasp, make a good heavy skirt. Make the skirt at least 2 inches higher than the top. Add 2 or 3 extra 2" (or however higher you make the skirt) pieces to form a dado. Force the top straight into the dado and clamp and glue.

Its amazing what can be done with a good set of pipe clamps.


----------



## donwilwol

Scott, we're good. I've sent Al a note, he'll be speaking with you shortly.


----------



## waho6o9

PM me with any questions Rasp. Pancake that top.


----------



## johnstoneb

I built the bench out of Birch I fell and had sawed out from my Dad's farm in north Idaho. I built it about 20 or so years ago. The cabinet underneath I just made about 3 or 4 months ago. The drawers were my first attempt at box joints. 









http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss114/johnstoneb/Woodworking%20Projects/IMGP1340.jpg


----------



## bandit571

for some reason, I'm having trouble just seeing the top of my bench…









I mean, i built it for a planning bench, but it seems the planes have taken over the top









Other than the painting, this IS where the work gets done on some of the re-hab planes…


----------



## mochoa

Johnstoneb, sorry for the late reply, that is a sweet bench, pretty cool that you harvested the wood yourself. How do you like Birch as a wood for workbenches?


----------



## mochoa

p.s. did you stain it or is that natural ageing?


----------



## Bertha

*Did he really say that?*
.
Yes, I'm afraid he did.


----------



## Brit

Al - I don't know about anyone else, but I haven't got a clue what you're on about. Must be the meds. )

Carry on.


----------



## mochoa

Oh, thats about the Schwarz quote about staying married while building your bench, I couldnt find it in his secound book, I think I saw it in a preview I read of his first workbench book.


----------



## mochoa

I'll leave you guys with a bench build progress shot before we cut out for the holiday….


----------



## Brit

Won't be long now brother.


----------



## donwilwol

I'm starting to see shape! Have you used it yet?


----------



## mochoa

Thats the coolest part, Im already using it. The tenons are just friction fit right now and I'm using it to saw the shoulders of tenons for the long stretchers. 









Its sturdy now with no glue and no pegs that I'm contimplating drawboring it together with no glue just to see what happens.


----------



## Boatman53

That's a nice looking bench Mauricio


----------



## BrandonW

Mauricio, you are so close! Let me know when I can come over and use it.


----------



## Bertha

Simply outstanding.


----------



## lysdexic

That looks simply awesome Mauricio. Are you planing a shelf underneath?


----------



## Mosquito

Nice work Mauricio!


----------



## mochoa

Thanks guys!

Scott, I am planning a shelf but it will probably just be a ledger glued and screwed to the stretchers with some boards laid on them. I'm not planning on a cabinet, I'm thinking it eventually will just be some cubbies like Jim Toplins joinery bench, more of a parking space for planes, saws, and jigs rather than a place to store them. Its going to be all about keeping the top de-cluttered.

Brandon, we may have to have a glue up party, maybe you can help me glue it up and then we can grill out or something.

You know, it seems like I'm almost finished but look at my to-do list. They are not all that involved but it's a lot of small details left to do.

Stretchers, rip w angle, cut tenons, rout motices
Finish fine tuning all joints
Chop hole for planning stop
Make deadman
Rout deadman groove
Angle on rail for deadman
Cut end cap tongue
Mill caps and well back
Groove caps and back
Make and fit well board
Attach shelf ledgers
Drill vise screw hole in leg
Drill dog holes
Make wagon vise, drill bolt holes in ends, buy bolts, w/ barrel nuts
Blacken/age bolts
Make wooden screw and tap leg
Make vise chop
Drill M&T's for drawbore
Make draw bore pin
Practice drawbore
Smooth all surfaces
Assemble
Final prep for finish, plug holes (in top)
Finish/Oil Varnish


----------



## waho6o9

Beautiful work Mauricio.


----------



## lysdexic

Hmm,

My list is only slightly shorter than yours and it brings up some good points.
- how do you blacken the hardware?
- do you really think you need a draw bore pin?
- practice a draw bore joint. You are absolutely correct! I hadn't considered it but I will definitely practice. I meesed draw bore joint is not something easy to recover from.

I have got a lot to do!


----------



## Boatman53

I don't think they ever get done! I've been using mine for months now and I still need to chamfer the legs and put some kind of finish on it. Plus there are all the accessories like bench hooks and things. Jim


----------



## CartersWhittling

Sure is looking good Mauricio. Even though it is not finished yet, at least you have a bench to work on.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Wahoo, Jim, & Carter.

Schwarz blogged about antiquing hardware, here you go:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/aging-hardware-with-jax-chemicals

I dont think you need a drawbore pin, but from what I've read it increases your chances of success so I figure it's worth making one. Sorry to invoke Schwarz so much lately but he has a blog out there about how to make one from an alignment pin you can get from Sears or Harbor Freight for cheap.

The possibility of a botched glue ups keep me up at night Scott. ;-)

Jim, thanks for adding one more thing to my list: Chamfer edges….


----------



## mochoa

Jim, I've been studying your bench build pictures, I have your site bookmarked. You have solved for some of the things I need to do on my bench. Yours is really well made and well thought out.

Scott, here is the blog on how to make the pin:
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/cSchwarz/z_art/drawBoring/drawBoring4.asp


----------



## mochoa

HAVE YOU GUYS SEEN BOATMANS LATEST POST! 
http://lumberjocks.com/Boatman53/blog/30843


----------



## Boatman53

Your welcome Mauricio I wish I had chamfer the legs before I put it together. 
On another note I now have a YouTube video up of the leg vise we talked about, you can see it here. Thanks to all who participate it makes it so much more fun. At least for me.




I welcome any comments. I also put it on the blogs.


----------



## Bertha

I'm all friggin over Boatman's chain leveler. I'm going to go ahead and need that


----------



## KenBry

Al, i am right there with you.


----------



## Boatman53

Thanks Berta, I'm starting a list of interested people. I'll keep you posted how things progress, my as built parts are being drawn up in CAD now then out to bid. There are about 10 shops waiting to bid on the job. So I don't know what it is going to cost yet. I made the parts I needed so they were between free and very expensive if I billed my time at my regular rate.
Is your bench built already? I can't remember, reading about everyone's bench here.
Jim


----------



## Bertha

No Jim, I've got all the materials assembled but I went and broke my leg. I'm going with Lake Eerie wood screws, so that'll be interesting to see your chain on them if it all works out.


----------



## planeBill

I haven't really built ANYTHING of note for a while(not sure I've EVER built anything noteworthy but) but have been wanting and wanting. So, after reading and following along on this thread I have developed that sickening desire way down deep where our best projects come from. You know the one, that feeling where you know you really don't have the money, you don't really have the space, you don't REALLY have the need (already have two benches that technically work, they are technically benches, they have vices on them and hold workpieces, technically), but you know you're going to do it anyway. At least, you want to really, really bad. Bad enough to start looking at the bank account and looking around at wood prices, deciding on species, endlessly admiring the ones built by others here on LJ's. OUCH!!!! DAMNIT!!! LOOK OUT!!! He's been bit!! 
I think I may have just the wood for the base. I take it that softwoods may not be the best for it but I have some humongous beams of some really dense heartpine. It's really beautiful to boot. Plus, it will never rot. I don't think it would be very wise to use for the top though, it's so resinous. These beams came from an old peanut factory down in Georgia that was about 150 years old and the wood still is sticky inside. Would it dry after being milled? If I could use it I could make the top from a single piece, or two pieces depending. It is a softwood, but this is some really dense, hard, softwood. But, that resin. I don't know. Just starting to really think this out. Am I off to a bad start with this potential choice of wood? Should I call the man and see what he has up there?
Sorry to interupt the real bench builders here. Keep the beauty coming.


----------



## RGtools

Take a picture of this slab…If there are now huge knots or waves or pith, I would say you are OK.


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## Bertha

I think the World authority on everything (including benches), Chris Swartz, uses pine in his benches. He's made some really nice ones; gotta give the guy that one.


----------



## lysdexic

I really like clear pine. It is just so hard to come by.


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio,

Did you order the materials needed for the draw bore pins? If so, where? My Sears closed its doors a few months ago.


----------



## Bertha

^I'm sure y'all know about these. Not meaning to offend, of course. $100 is offensive, I know; but it might be worth NOT running around creation looking for the stock, turning the handles, etc. I've been told that there's another item (like the one at Sears) that can be had at automotive stores. I can't put my finger on it.
.








.
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=1-DBP#
.
I think I remember dismissing them b/c they were too short, like Iles describes:
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/indextool.mvc?prodid=MS-DRAWB.XX
.
Once again, Blue Spruce for the win
http://www.bluesprucetoolworks.com/cgi/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=DBPN.375








.
This is one of the best drawboring write-ups I've seen with tons of eye candy
http://pfollansbee.wordpress.com/tag/drawboring/
Plus, I like that dude's beard.
.
I'm planning on just buying mine. I'd say Blue Spruce but it's all going to be about the backorder situation.


----------



## mochoa

Bill, I know that feeling your talking about, its what drives us to spend hundreds of hours in the shop on those really big project. Embrace it! ;-)

If you don't want to spend a lot of money then dont, I havent spent a lot on mine, I just used what wood I had and what came my way. It sounds like you have some really nice materials already.

When you say your concerned about the resins, are you worried about them gumming up your machines? It sounds like they may be too big to run through machines anyway. Go at with hand tools. Post pictures of those beams, I'd love to see them.

Scott, I haven't gotten my drawbore pin stuff yet but I'll probably go to Harbor Freight when I do.

Al, those pins are things of beauty. So hard to justify though when Schwarz shows you how to make one for $6.


----------



## Bertha

^Yeah, I know Mauricio. I've got all his books but I generally reject his advice reflexively. My loss, I know. I've come to really prize simple tools that are just ridiculously overdone. Burnishers, marking knives, etc. Anything Blue Spruce, really. I think I'm going to stop apologizing for these type of purchases b/c they make me so stupidly happy. I don't smile when I look at my $350 kitchen faucet; but I do when I look at my $20 burnisher.


----------



## mochoa

LOL, hey man, if it makes you happy and you can afford it, F it, buy that sh*t.


----------



## Bertha

^that's what I'm talking about, Mauricio
and if you cant afford it, F it, steal that sh*t
That's the philosophy where I'm used to living, at least


----------



## mochoa

correction $13
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-piece-punch-and-chisel-set-66337.html


----------



## Bertha

^$13? Well I'm definitely getting the Blue Spruce


----------



## BrandonW

You can get the harbor freight model and turn a nice handle for it.


----------



## mochoa

Its even easier than that, since the handle needs to be torqued and twisted, to smooth the way for the pin, a hexagonal handle actually works better.


----------



## mochoa

Octagonal I meant.


----------



## mochoa




----------



## Brit

Mauricio and all - I bought the Ray Iles ones a few years ago. They are excellent and I don't subscribe to the view that octagonal handles are better. Ray Iles makes both and I went for the round handles and I'm glad I did. They are so much more comfortable to hold. The handles are large and fill the hand, so there is a huge amount of friction. My hand has never slipped once. Just putting it out there.


----------



## Bertha

^there you go. And I bet they make you smile every time you pick them up, Andy.
I've always wondered about the octagonal argument; and it may well have been bitterly discussed here for all I know. To me, with the appropriate palm swell, I would think the one with the most surface area would be the most desirable in terms of friction. I like the LOOK of octagonal handles but I admit, I don't have many of them in my collection. The closest, I suppose, are the rather squarish Butcher pigsticking mortise chisels. Those, however, you don't really "grip", rather just "point".


----------



## KenBry

I watched Marc's video and don't see a need for them things. What am I missing? Yea, you can use those crazy expensive tools but I think a wood dowel should do the trick just fine.
http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/drawbored-mortise-tenon/


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Depends on your grip power. Office guys need octagon. Working guys can get by with round ;-))


----------



## Bertha

^lol, Topa; I love that. 
Man, I don't know what it is…but I just can't watch those woodwhisperer videos. The guy's clearly talented and I know he's loved by all, it's like fingernails on the chalkboard for me. Maybe it's the soul patch; not sure. No offense meant, of course.
.
It's true, though, just sharpen up one end of a long dowel and start hammering. Definitely no tools needed. You can also use a screwdriver instead of a burnisher; razor blade instead of a marking knife.
.
For me, at least, it's just a reason to get a new tool.


----------



## lysdexic

Well, I guess that means an octagonal handle for me. If I still have trouble I'll use the grip wrap from my badminton racquet


----------



## BrandonW

Maybe it's the soul patch; not sure. The flavor-savor. That thing doesn't look good on anyone.

Scott, I'd love to see one with a badminton handle.


----------



## DanKrager

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't one use swaged tenons? I can understand that through tenons could consume too much of the leg volume causing weakening, but a stopped and swaged tenon would be stronger than a pinned tenon. Are the pins just for style, i.e. a period technique? 
Dan


----------



## mochoa

Brandon, did you use a pin on your build?


----------



## mochoa

What is a Swaged Tenon?


----------



## BrandonW

I didn't use a pin on my bench, the offset wasn't that great, around 1/16th". I just took a knife and shaved the front of the dowel to a near point and drove them in with a hammer.


----------



## DanKrager

Swage means to enlarge the end. Rip saws are swaged when they are set with a shaped tool hammered over each tooth to swell the cutting edge to both sides of the blade creating clearance for the body of the blade. Swaged mortise and tenon is created by enlarging the bottom of the mortise on two end grain sides and inserting the tenon with two wedges set each in their own saw slot in the end of the tenon near the end grain cheeks. When the tenon is pushed home, the wedges bottom out first, swelling the tenon into a "dovetail" inside the mortise. Careful planning is involved so the wedges do the job without holding the joint open. The joint actually requires no glue and has the potential to survive great stress without failure. There is no repair without destroying something.


----------



## Bertha

Dan, there's another drawback for using through-tenons on your benchtop. When you flatten by hand, you'll inevitably run into some end-grain. Not a big deal and I bet many consider it a trade-off for the neat appearance. Just like a wedged tenon, I worry about any tenon that puts stress along the length of the benchtop, given that it's a laminate (after all) and many simply leave voids as mortises during the glue up. My bench is still in my head, so I like working this stuff out, considering all alternatives.


----------



## Bertha

BrandonW, agreed.
.


----------



## mochoa

Schwarz would need the octoganal handle for sure, have you seen his skinny arms.

Spagnolo isn't using a pin, maybe its that his offset isn't that big and he is using a clamp in the process, maybe the pin eliminates the need for clamps at all.

One thing drawboreing does that swaged tenons don't is that it is constantly pulling the joint tight, if the wood shrinks it still keeps the joint tight.


----------



## Bertha

I guess it just boils down to: what is the strongest joint you can imagine. Outside of crazy double-dovetails; for me, a drawbored through tenon is about as strong as I can make. 
.
Swartz needs hexagonal
Actually, having been a brawler in a former life, you need to watch out for dudes built like Swartz. I can think of two that got the better of me, one that jellied my legs with an unexpected left hook in righty stance.


----------



## Boatman53

For what it is worth I cut the tenon mortices in the top laminate before I glued up the top. The mortice ends 1/2" below the top surface and the tenon is as thick as the laminate. So basically cut a " U " out of the one laminate before gluing. This whole bench is put together with epoxy ( the only glue in my shop) after the clamps were removed I drilled and inserted the pins. No draw boring here. The whole bench is glued as one unit. It's small 22" deep, 5'2" long so it will fit through doorways etc.


----------



## Bertha

^Jim, that's about the size mine's going to be, 24×60. I just can't afford any more real estate in my shop. I hadn't even considered the doorway thing.


----------



## groland

Here's my bench. Top is ash, base is red oak. I like that I can clamp anything anywhere with the top being even-thickness everywhere. Eighty-five dog holes gives lots of clamping points. Nice and heavy, it's working out well for my first serious bench.

Others' postings here show fabulous benches. Great fun to see them!

George


----------



## Bertha

George, great bench! I'm glad you had to drill all those dog hole, not me


----------



## lysdexic

Random bench build pic…..


----------



## Boatman53

Scott, you know you will only need one of those. But they are beautiful.


----------



## lysdexic

Jim,

Right you are sir. I guess I will be doing the chain drive kind of like a retro fit. I have all the ingredients to work the plan the BC plan and I want to follow through with it. I am going so far as to install the back roller then I am going to take it off and start on the chain drive. I am almost there.


----------



## mochoa

Groland that bench is sweet! Thats a lot of dog holes, do you really use them all?

Scott, sweet rollers.


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## lysdexic

Thanks Mauricio,

Those buggers take a while to make. That is not a finish. I just wiped them down with mineral spirits to see what they will look like. I have grown fond of tapping holes in wood. The set screws in the rollers are tapped directly and it works great.


----------



## DanKrager

I see your points, guys. I haven't lived long enough to verify that pins will outlast the wedged tenons in a shrinking situation, but it makes sense. I have lived long enough to understand shrinking situations.
@Bertha…"My bench is still in my head, ..." if there's enough square footage, why don't you just do ALL your work there and save a lot of trouble? These bench builders are working really hard, doing beautiful work, sweating in hot weather, but if it's just in your head, what could go wrong that you can't fix? No worries. 
Dan


----------



## DanKrager

For the record Scott, a long time ago I tapped some oak and put in a steel set screw. A few years later, I had to destroy the little piece because the set screw had reacted with the tanic acid in oak (and many woods) and corroded the little set screw beyond use. I still don't know of a way to prevent that with any metal next to oak (and many other woods). It's the same reaction when glue gets under a steel clamp on oak. Just my experience.


----------



## lysdexic

Dan, there is not enough square footage.


----------



## waho6o9

Awesome workbench Groland! The extra clamping spaces rock.


----------



## Brit

Scot - They are some sweet rollers man and I can't see any burn marks on the cherry this time. Have you found a way to avoid it or are you just getting better at hiding it for the photos? )


----------



## BrandonW

If jennlawrence wants it in her shop, you can't go wrong.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jenn's top is in Brandon's shop? Wha???


----------



## mochoa

Dan, thats a good point I hadent thought of, I'm going to be using metal hardware to hold my end caps on (all oak), I need to figure out how to solve for the tannin effect.


----------



## Boatman53

Can you get the fittings you need in stainless. Perhaps I can help. I almost never use plain steel. Salt water you know.


----------



## Bertha

Scott, brains are for nerds. I keep my head mostly empty, keeping most of my square footage in other organs. And by organs, I mean external genitalia. 
.
Dan, I've had occasion for oak to eat my hardware. This is just one of the 1000 reasons I dislike oak. I even started a thread about it once. I should find it and bump it so we can start the fight all over again


----------



## mochoa

Al, LOL…

Jim, good point and I guess that answers my question. If buying stainless hardware solves the issue I'll see what I can get at my local hardware store. Is that harder to come by? If so I'll hit you up, Thank!

I'm kind of tired of working with oak, especially red oak, which is why I'm happy to burn through the last of my stash with my bench. I do kind of like working it with hand planes though, makes nice lacey shavings.


----------



## lysdexic

Random bench build musings:

It is hot as hell in the garage…..

This is definitely a labor of love….

The BC planned leg vise is complete. Now I will remove most of the attachments, permanently install the parallel guide, and begin the chain drive "retro"fit. At some point once I am done drill and installing, I plan on shaving the road grime of these two pieces. Assembly is coming soon and it is easier now. Unfortunately it may a week or so before I get back in the shop.


----------



## Boatman53

Looks good Scott. That is some vise.


----------



## BrandonW

Nice Scott! That leg vise would run circles around mine, I'm pretty sure.

Sympathies with the hot garage--I got a few hours in the shop this weekend, but it was hell.


----------



## Brit

If I didn't know better, I'd think Jameel had made it. Excellent work Scott!


----------



## donwilwol

Scott, that's a fine looking vise, and I hate to be the nearer of bad news, but I think to be considered complete it needs to be attached. Just sayin.

ps, I'll attach it to my bench if you'd like!!


----------



## lysdexic

Right you are Don. In fact it is time for me to commit on several aspects of this build. I still have not cut the legs to their final length. Also, it is time to break out the glue and pegs. No going back at that stage. Now, Mauricio has me worried that I don't have a draw bore pin.


----------



## DanKrager

Y'know, all this nice looking, well built stuff has inspired me to remodel and add to my end vise. It's not a beautiful leg like Scott's. Let's face it: some of us just don't have beautiful legs. It's built for a different purpose.  And it's gotten kinda wimpy over time. The biggest drawbacks are the loose cap rides up under clamping pressure, and the peg arrangement is so awkward that it puts the vise in the "last resort" category. I didn't get it in the picture, but there is a knob bolt at the bottom far side that screws into T nut visible on this side. I've figured out how to use the chain principle to eliminate the peg, making the vise infinitely more useful.
Some features are that it holds large panels and doors in its deep throat. The throat bar is adjustable to different positions for better support. There is supposed to be a mate to the right, and that is one of the things you guys are inspiring me to do. It detaches from the bench with a single bolt and can be used "on site" with its mate when fastened to as little as a piece of plywood to hold them upright. 
So…what would you do to beef this thing up? I'm thinking a larger foot with draw bored tenons, say 6 inches high. A fixed arm through the front leg for the chain mechanism just above the foot. Maybe start from scratch with heavier timber?


----------



## donwilwol

Scott, I don't think I'd worry. I'm a bit of an over engineering type myself, but you guys are taking it to a new level for me. That's not a judgment but an observation. They will look absolutely wonderful and the joinery is great and fun to do, but I think you're good on stability. if it comes off any different, its a compliment by the way.


----------



## mochoa

Scott that vise is a Monster! Looks amazing man, nice work.


----------



## Boatman53

Don that is some deep throat on that vise. It's interesting. Does the upright arm that holds the nut for the press screw flex much. There must be a lot of leverage with it held only at the bottom. I'm not sure how the chain will work on that style because you don't have a beam that moves with the jaw. Anyway if I can help with parts let me know. 
Wait I think I see… Are both of those beams bolted. Down low the leverage would be great but as you raise the middle beam it would stiffen up.


----------



## bandit571

I'd show a picture of my old leg vise, but evrytime I try to take a picture, something is either IN the vise, or on top of the vise:









Or a plane cruising down "Pine Avenue" on a test drive…









Bench is in use, as a re-hab center….


----------



## lysdexic

Lets give credit where credit is due. I am not engineering anything. I am just following the Bench Crafted plan and executing it by TWW video instruction. I did go with square legs and I was too lazy to trim a 1/4" thickness off the chop. Other than that, it is all per the plan.


----------



## mochoa

Is there any requirement for the thickness of the deadman? Should it be at least 2" 
Of course if you have one of these snazzy holddown devises like Smitty it doesnt seem to matter.


----------



## DanKrager

Jim, you were getting warmer. Yes, the arm flexes some but it's pretty stiff. I've been thinking about rebuilding with a beefier arm, maybe even laminating another layer on each side. On the other hand, it's not necessary to generate 1200 psi with it. It holds firmly once tight. 
The throat piece is adjustable, as in it can be moved closer to the top. Then the arm doesn't flex. 
I am a little concerned about the chain beam being an ankle biter, but probably not more than the screw crank is a leg bruiser. 
I've already dug into it today replacing the bottom beam with a beefier, taller one. I'll be making the chain beam this afternoon. Where can I learn the price of your sprockets and chain kit?
Dan


----------



## KenBry

I'm not to far away from applying a finish on the basic bench assembly. What would you guys recomend I use for a finish on a maple work bench? Something to protect the wood but not discolor it to much. I thought BLO but it takes so long to cure up…


----------



## Bertha

Kenbry, my gut tells me BLO but it might yellow a bit, in addition to taking forever to cure. I was thinking Tung for mine but it'd get pretty expensive pretty quick. I'm interested to hear what people think.


----------



## DanKrager

We can't get Danish Oil here, which would be my preference, so I use Minwax Antique Oil on fine stuff. BLO works good on my benches. You could add a bit of Japan Drier to BLO to speed up the drying, however, you would have to be sure that first coats are thinned well for good penetration. You could also thin the BLO with small amounts of acetone which will greatly enhance penetration and drying at the same time. BLO yellows badly as Bertha mentioned.
Dan


----------



## Bertha

Dan, Danish oil is my preference for just about everything. I like wetsanding the tinted stuff. I've never heard of cutting BLO with acetone but I really like both chemicals. Just like shellac and etoh, I love those finishes that seem to evaporate, leaving the surface cool. Good stuff.


----------



## waho6o9

+1 for the Danish oil. Or, I guess you can use Mineral oil and wax as well.


----------



## Bertha

Mineral oil is one of the best bangs for the buck. I've heated up cutting boards with a blow dryer before adding mineral oil. It just soaks it up like a sponge. A trusted member here (can't remember which one) vouched for the butcher's block oil that you can buy at the big box. I've been meaning to try it out.


----------



## lysdexic

Some one here objected to using a varnish or poly because of the repair difficulties. What difficulties are those? What difficulties would you have repairing a wipe on poly?

I am considering this for my bench top for the added water resisitance. The rest would be some type of oil.


----------



## donwilwol

I used poly. Once in a while I wax it. About twice since I built it I have taken a scraper to the top, a quick scrape and sand and another coat or 2. You guys know I beat my bench a lot harder than most. I like the poly for better protection again oil stains. Yes I throw a lawn mower motor up there once in a while.


----------



## DanKrager

Scott, I mentioned the difficulty of repairing a poly finish. In that mention I noted that a top coat of poly cannot bond chemically to a previous coat thoroughly dried. A subsequent coat can only bond mechanically. Sometimes that's good enough. I personally wouldn't use it on an article that would require fairly frequent touch up. Like I mentioned before, too, I have a set of salad bowls been in service over 40 years with only two coats poly and they still look like new. The old stuff was so durable I didn't have to repair. But I don't pound on them and scoot heavy objects over them, etc, etc. Don is getting good service from the mechanical bonds. 
Dan


----------



## donwilwol

I often think about doing just oil. If I knew I was only doing woodworking on my bench it would be oil. I'm just not that disciplined.


----------



## bandit571

So far, that bench of mine is getting just B. S. & MD. Blood, sweat & mountain Dews that get knocked over. Oil finish? maybe a spot or two, where the can of 3-in-1 oil got knocked over. Aprons were "finished' back when they were still a waterbed in the making. Still trying to figure out a Beechwood Aging Process…


----------



## lysdexic

That's the spirit Bandit!


----------



## KenBry

Danish is a good idea. I use the lowes butcher block on my cutting boards but i wouldn't use it on the bench. I might try Arm R Seal - oil Urethane.


----------



## BrandonW

Yes Bandit, that's all some benches call for, but if I were spending the time to build a bench like Mauricio's or Scott's, I'd sure as hell put some decent finish on it. On my own bench I used BLO and then re-coated the top with Tung oil.


----------



## lysdexic

Thanks for explaining that Dan.

I am considering putting my bench in a climate controlled glass box. Seriously, but not serious, I am trying to come up with some inaugural abuse for mine. Once everything is done and I have wiped done the last coat of finish, I may slam mine with a big chain or hammer. Just mar it and get going.

Just FYI, Marc (TWW) used Tried &True Varnish Oil. He was not overly impressed. He thought it would go on easy and cure quicker but found it behaved just like Danish oil. He stated in the future he would just touch it up with Danish Oil.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ +1 for watco's and/or danish oil.


----------



## Brit

Personally I would use a matt acrylic water-based varnish, thinned with water. For the top, I would only put on two coats so it seals the wood without building up a surface finish. Two thinned coats would provide a tough 'in the wood' finish which wouldn't change the color of the maple or make it blotchy. It is touch dry in 10-15 minutes so you don't have to worry about dust settling on the finish and you can re-coat after 2 hours. Times vary depending on the product you use. For the base, I would build up 4 coats, lightly sanding with P600 prior to the 4th coat. I used it on my maple breakfast bar which you can see in my projects and was very impressed. You have to work quickly, but you can literally just slap it on.


----------



## Bertha

Scott: Like+1. When I got my truck, I was so proud of it, 9 miles, black, 3/4 ton, glorious. A friend of mine (in fact, lsu2005/harvard2011-sports ortho named "tank", so you probably don't know him) launched a cinderblock into my shiny bed where it banged around causing great destruction. He said he was doing me a favor and although I didn't understand it at the time, I do now.


----------



## BrandonW

The old cinder-block-in-the-bed-of-the-truck trick. Love it.


----------



## DanKrager

I dare say we guys pay more attention to our workbenches than we do our significant other. For example, to see which gets more attention consider this check list (make two columns, one for bench one for mate):
Caressed the top just to feel how smooth it is.
Crawled under it to see how things are gonna fit. 
Wiped it all down after a hard days work and oiled it.
Flicked a speck of dust off it after cleaning up.
Checked the legs for loose joints.
Waxed the screw.
Bumped it to see if it wiggles.
Made any bling for it.
Beat on it when frustrated.
Apologized or at least felt bad for beating on it.
Take it for granted as it ages
Treat it more tenderly as it ages
Have a retirement plan for it.
Moved it to get it out of the way.
Loaded more stuff on it than it could hold.
Took a nap on it.
Checked to see if it fits through doorway.
Considered what you would do with out it.
Wondered if you could lift it.
Wished it was more blond. 
Let somebody else use it.
Put drawers on it.
Put it in the center of your shop.
Spent more time with it.
Considered getting another one.


----------



## BrandonW

LOL to Dan's post.


----------



## lysdexic

I am confused. You are talking about my truck, right?


----------



## donwilwol

well Dan, in either case I can't afford another one.


----------



## mochoa

I think I'm going to do the mix your own whipping varnish, I think someone called it the 3-2-1 mix of Mineral Spirits, Poly, and Oil (if that's right), Or maybe I'll just buy a can or two of Watco. I don't think repair would be an issue, just do a quick light sanding. But you don't even need that, you can just rub poly down with a gray abrasive pad in between coats, it has worked for me on other projects.

My biggest concern is slipperiness. Oak is pretty slippery as it is but Smitty has used Watco on Oak and he hasn't had an issues.


----------



## Bertha

Lol, Dan! It's funny, I'm not a "car guy" or a truck guy, for that matter. I care way more about my workbench than my vehicle. The irony is in the expense. I pay $50,000 for a vehicle but $5000 for a bench sounds outrageous. I wonder how that happened. I propose that we request a ten fold increase in bench budget from our significant others. Time to get the household priorities straight for a change.


----------



## Mosquito

Al…. you can still get a pretty nice car for $45,000 and have the extra $5,000 for a bench ;-)


----------



## Bertha

^Very true, Mos. The angle I'm going at is similar. Everyone is at least SUPPOSED to love the environment, right? And most people would like to drive a safe, nice car. I'm thinking the Lexus LS400 Hybrid.
http://www.lexus.com/models/LSh/features/pricing.html
With a base of $112,750, I figure you come out with a few trinkets for $125,000 including delivery.
So, If I buy a Honda Fit
http://automobiles.honda.com/tools/build-price/trims.aspx?ModelName=Fit&ModelYear=2012
at $15,325 base, I'm saving the family $109,675. Half into the savings like a good boy and….
$54,837.50 for the shop. Crisis averted. Problem solved.


----------



## Mosquito

Sounds reasonable to me…


----------



## Bertha

Ok, then.


----------



## Brit

Thanks for the laugh Dan.

Don - You said exactly what I was thinking.

Al - Your logic is impeccable.


----------



## mochoa

Most of you have already chimed in my blog but since I've been posting progress shots here I figure I'll add one now. Please pay no mind to the gappy tenons on the stretchers. 








http://lumberjocks.com/mochoa/blog/30931


----------



## Bertha

^it's a sight to behold, Mauricio. You said you were going to do it. You were the man to do it. You did it. I, for one, am quite proud of you.


----------



## lysdexic

I really like the splayed-leg bench.


----------



## toonman78

Ok, I'll play. Here is my bench. Its not pretty by any means and I was on a budget, but it serves its purpose. Its just a doubled up 3/4" MDF top and 2×4's. 4' sq and equal height as my table saw. underneath stores my sanding table and a shelf to keep all my small power tools that stay plugged in and ready to go. simple yet effective.


----------



## BrandonW

It looks great, Toonman! YOu have a wonderful shop there.


----------



## lysdexic

It is hard to see the details of your workbench but I especially like the flag.


----------



## mochoa

Toon that shop is pretty sweet. Did you make those cabinets yourself? Thats something I've always wanted to do, that or get some old kitchen cabinets to repurpose.


----------



## mochoa

Al & Scott, thanks for the props on the bench. I still have a lot of steps left before I can call it finished.


----------



## toonman78

Mauricio, No I found those at a garage sale for 20 bucks. I just put a top on them. I also have been wanting to build some kitchen cabinets, But haven't got around to it yet. I mostly build bass guitars.


----------



## mochoa

Dang I need to find some cabinets like that. It totally changes the look of the shop not to mention get you much more storage space.

Yeah, I saw your website tag, You do beautiful work, is that your day job? So great to be able to combine two passions like that.


----------



## KenBry

Workbench progress shot. Waiting on Benchcrafted to get their vise parts back in to shipping status. But this is what I have built so far. All parts are prepped for the Benchcrafted parts. I need to still build the Chop, deadman and shelf supports. The top needs allot more flattening work. and everything needs a good finish sanding and soften the sharp edges. Today is the first time I have mated the legs and top together.


----------



## KenBry

double post


----------



## mochoa

Ken, that is a thing of beauty! Its usable now right? Put some hold fast holes in it and strat using it! I'm tempted to do the same but I cant decide where to put the holes so I'm waiting.


----------



## KenBry

I have to take the top off and flatten the top and bottom there is a very slight bow in the narrow end. 1/16" crown in the middle of the 24" span. I am going to build a router sled to flatten it. I have been using the top while it sat on top of my workmate and other mini-mate.


----------



## lysdexic

Ken,
That looks great. I see you went with the knock down hardware. Remind me what the top is made of. Also, what is the height of your bench?


----------



## lysdexic

Andy,

Your comment on the bench top finish did not go unnoticed. Your suggestion is a departure from the "consensus." I only peripherally know about the water based varnishes. I guess I need to delve deeper. I have the Flexner book and see what it reveals. I am curious to learn more.


----------



## KenBry

Scott, the top and legs are hard brown maple that i got for a buck a foot. Hard brown is core wood. I had to glue some 30 pieces of that i machined it down from 13/16" ruff lumber. The top is 3 15/16" thick, by the time i get it surfaced i suspect it may end up at 3 3/4". The rails are all 8/4 soft maple and so is the end cap. Yep,it's got break down hardware if I ever move i want take this beast apart.

Total height is. 37" I am 6' and wanted a slightly taller bench than most peoples 35". If it ends up being to high i can always trim off some bottom leg.


----------



## RGtools

Ken, that is everything a bench should be. Mauricio, same goes, I have a slab of wood that might have to follow it's footsteps.


----------



## BrandonW

Mauricio, you can have my kitchen cabinets-you just have to help me put in new ones.  I really do plan on getting rid of them, but I just don't have the time/money to make new ones right now.

Ken, it's looking pretty nice!


----------



## mochoa

Andy, I ditto what Scott said, I just dont know how that translates into brands of products over here.

Thanks Ryan, I hope you make that Moravian bench, that will be fun to watch.

Brandon, that sounds like a deal, let me know.


----------



## Bertha

That's a fantastic bench, Ken.


----------



## RGtools

The Moravian will happen. But I would like an excuse to make a spayed leg bench. Sharpening station sounds good enough to me.

Must get my toolchest done and a few wife projects done first though. I would hate to incure the wrath of swmbo.


----------



## Brit

Especially now she has a mallet Ryan.


----------



## waho6o9

Excellent workbench Ken, congratulations on a fine build.


----------



## lysdexic

Andy, now that the diamond jubilee is over, what are you working on?


----------



## Brit

Scott - Since then, I've built two workbenches, a tool tote, two saw cabinets and a Harley Davidson out of scrap wood. Then I woke up.

No seriously, I'm not starting any more projects until I have finished sharpening all my backsaws. I think I have four left now that will be sharpened crosscut. As you know, at the moment I have to work outside and it hasn't stopped raining for weeks here. I've never known a summer like it, so progress is frustratingly slow. I have been using the time to design future projects and one of the first things will be to repair my Workmate if only so that I can use it to make another bench.


----------



## SamuelP

A special "Andy" edition Workmate? I cannot wait.


----------



## mochoa

What say the workbench fashion police about a red oak bench with Walnut Leg Vise Chop and Deadman?


----------



## lysdexic

I am no fashion police, even though I do have track lighting. IMO oak and walnut go very well together because they are basically brown in colour. AS you know I have chose to use contrasting woods in my bench so I may be biased. It is when contrasting woods are used all through out the bench that it gets too busy.


----------



## KenBry

Yea, the Maple I have is only 5" wide so for me to get a wide chop and dead man I have to glue pieces together. So I am using this as an oppertunity to add color to it.


----------



## mochoa

Its going to look spectacular Ken!


----------



## mochoa

I'm going to put some Roman ogee's on my deadman, I know that wont be popular but I dont care, to me its bad aas because its Roman and I think its cool.


----------



## Doss

Maybe I'm just a little crazy or lazy, but who else would like for there to be just a thread filled with nothing but pictures of benches with specs? No discussions… just benches.

I like this thread but every time I have to go through it there have usually been about 50 more posts and most of them are just filled with text saying how great the bench is (which they are… don't get me wrong).

I just love looking at workbenches and not really looking at all the text in between the images… maybe that's just me though.

Keep up the good work guys (and gals)!


----------



## mochoa

Doss, what your looking for is a Google Image search…


----------



## lysdexic

Who says that won't be popular. More importantly, who gives a damn.


----------



## Doss

*Mauricio*, yes, I am fully aware of what I can do with an image search, but thank you for the advice.

I am a member on plenty of forums and on almost every one of them there are threads that are specifically there for images with little, "Right on man!" or "That looks awesome!" fluff in between.

As I said before, it may just be me, but I think it would be a great thread to add.

And now, we are contributing to that fluff


----------



## mochoa

I think someone may have called it fru fru recently…


----------



## KenBry

Doss, I know what your talking about. I felt that way about several of the threads on this sight. However it's inevitable that people will post text and go off topic. SO if you can't beat them, joint them I always say.


----------



## mochoa

I'm calling ig ogee but maybe thats not what I'm thinking about, whats it called when you have a cove with a filet on either side?


----------



## BrandonW

Doss, you should make one-- tell people the rules and chastise those who don't follow them. I'd love to see that thread.

Mauricio, please don't do the Roman ogee on the deadman. You won't like it, trust me.


----------



## lysdexic

Doss, may I suggest a Google image search. I do a search for work bench images on Google and could spend hours and hours clicking through. There is amazing stuff out there.

This is what I am going to do with mine!


----------



## lysdexic

Sorry Doss, those guys replied as I was busy looking at the pretty pics.


----------



## Doss

Hey *Ken* and *Mauricio*, just so you know, I'm not talking about eliminating or replacing this one. There is some good discussion in here. I'm just talking about also having a condensed one of nothing but pics.

And *Ken*, if I were really board, I'd go ahead and get all the pics from in here and joint them into a single new thread.

Sorry, had to do it.

Good stuff *Scott*. That looks like my coffee table but taller.


----------



## lysdexic

Whoever called a roman ogee FRU-FRU is obviously an ass. Oh, wait, that was me.


----------



## mochoa

Brandon, do you speak from experience?

I like the ogee for the same reason I like splayed legs, I like a little something subtly different.

There are certain things I like about Kari Hultmans bench, like this:


----------



## mochoa

LOL


----------



## mochoa

I like the above but I would probably make it wider and have two rows of staggered holes.


----------



## lysdexic

One thing that I notice now is that the "head" and "foot" of the deadman are different pieces that are probably M&T joints. I like it but is it worth the trouble?


----------



## mochoa

probably not, but I could make it out of one piece of wood.


----------



## BrandonW

Speaking from experience? No. I just don't like the roman ogee profile. But, it's a good thing you added a picture because I was envisioning you running the corners of the deadman through a router with a Roman ogee bit. What you've posted looks nice and stylish-still a little too much flair for my taste, but only by a little. I definitely don't resist puking when I see it.


----------



## mochoa

Ha ha, you got to give me a little more credit that that Brandon. I do care what you think though thats why I wanted to get approval on my wood combinations. I have to face you in person at the guild meetings after all. ;-)


----------



## lysdexic

Random bench build pic


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's precision….


----------



## Brit

Nice work Scott.


----------



## Sylvain

"the "head" and "foot" of the deadman are different pieces that are probably M&T joints. I like it but is it worth the trouble?"

This means skiding of long grain on long grain while usually you have end grain sliding on long grain.

This probably means a smoother sliding and less abrasion altough if it is waxed it should not make much diffrerence.


----------



## Boatman53

Scott, nice job on the sprocket in stall. Any trouble once we got the dimensions sorted out? The rest of the installation is easy.
Jim


----------



## DanKrager

Scott, is that one of those Emmert patternmakers vise on your lamp table? WOW!


----------



## Bertha

I'm just catching up. A big congratulations to Scott for noting that walnut and oak are both brown. 
.
Doss, I'm terribly sorry you were forced to come here and tolerate this banter. 
.
*"Hi guys! Just dropped in to let you know I don't approve."*
.
There's always one guy. I bet you're a blast to hang out with.
.
Anyhow, back to this total waste of time. 
I actually like that deadman with the capitals. I think it looks pretty stately. If that's an ogee, I'm in. I'm liking that chain drive, Scott, and the hardware looks top quality. Smart looking install, too. Did you make that mortise with the Domino? I see machine marks, so I'm curious. I would have executed the mortise only with my powers of the mind, but you can use tools if you want to.


----------



## Mosquito

This is the work bench smack down thread, not the workbench of your dreams photo gallery  Though I don't disagree that a thread with nothing but pictures would be fun too, I enjoy reading up on all the banter and advice that shows up in here… having no bench and wanting to build one makes me very keen on absorbing what I can, and this thread has been a great source.

Looks great, Scott.


----------



## Bertha

Atta Boy (fluff/fru fru)
My post count is going to be enormous after all this crap! I'll really get the chicks then!


----------



## Doss

There's always one guy. I bet you're a blast to hang out with.

*Bertha*, I am a blast to hang out with. Go ask your [insert significant other [if female] or mom]... wait… just kidding (elementary I know, but I had to do it). I'd say you were too but I've never seen you at any of the parties I go to with lots of other people who are a blast to hang out with.

Secondly, you paraphrased me wrong, I'd never say anything that dorky, "Hi guys!". I'm guessing since that's the first thing that popped into your head, you must think it's something us cool, word-hating "I only want to see workbench images" people would say. So you know, we don't.

I drink a lot of beer and all these words make it hard for me to focus on the pictures. To me, a picture-only thread would be similar to Playboy (because nobody gets that for the articles).

Seriously, I think you took that wrong. This post is great for what it is. I don't want to eliminate it. I'd just like a thread with nothing but workbenches in it. Is that wrong to ask for? I guess in the *bertha's* kingdom, it is. Fortunately for me, I'm in Doss's kingdom where drinks are free and so is the advice. You get what you pay for.

I guess when I'm bored I'll make one of those threads. No charge.

*Scott*, that's a great picture. Is that brass or gold-plated?


----------



## Doss

*Post count booster!*

*Bertha*, so you know, my sarcasm meter was turned way up on that last post. It's all in jest (except that part about me living in my kingdom. That part is 100% true and it's awesome).

Also *Scott*, I checked out your workbench build blog. Good stuff. I like the experiments with the tenons.


----------



## mochoa

Scott that hardware is looking sweet! Nice precision on that install. If I did that it wouldn't have been nearly as nice, would have been all roughed out with gouges and chisels and whatnot.


----------



## BrandonW

Doss, you fit in here perfectly.

Mauricio--Sorry, I should have trusted you.


----------



## Bertha

Welcome, Doss My sarcasm sensor must have been off on that one. My sincerest apologies.


----------



## Belg1960

I just went thru about 20 plus pages of this thread and have learned quite bit. Still have not pulled the trigger on which bench type to go with, so will continue to absorb the info and go from there.

As a side note I belong to several model railroading sites and on 2 of them they have threads where they do post nothing but FINAL pics of projects. Usually attached to a contest or group builds. Just an idea to discuss perhaps.


----------



## KenBry

A couple days ago I asked which finish to use. Several folks reminded me about Danish oil so I used that. It darkened a little and yellowed a little. Over all not bad after the first coat.

Below are a couple before the Danish Oil and after. I have 1 coat on so far and it's relativly dry in the after pictures.


----------



## waho6o9

Congratulations Ken, that's a beautiful work bench. Well done!


----------



## alba

That is one nice bench

jamie


----------



## TDog

Ok has anyone used the Workbench "blue book" by Christopher Schwarz to build the Roubo workbench in that fashion with the simpler mortise and tenon joints?

I was wondering how many board feet of 2×12's to buy for the 8 foot build.

If you have any suggestions, they are welcome!


----------



## NANeanderthal

Tdog,
The body of mine is the roubo bench from the blue book. Cant remember how many 2*12's I got. but once you figure out how many you need, and plan for your extra;get some more.


----------



## mochoa

Ken that bench is looking sweet man!


----------



## mochoa

Spagnolo has a deadman along the lines of what I was thinking about. It looks like a big capital "I".


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice looker, Ken. Couple more applications and it'll glow. Gotta be itching for the BC hardware.


----------



## lysdexic

*Mauricio* That is the deadman from the plan. I think it can be slimmed even further. It is one piece. I am almost set on the 3 piece capital structure. Why? For the same reason that Don restores planes. Because i can.

Further, I don't have much lumber left. The piece that I want to use for the deadman is an inch or so skinnier than the plan. Also, I have plenty of scraps to make the capitals.

*Doss *Oh its gold plated alright. Just kidding. I think it is bronze but Boatman53 knows exactly since he made it.

*Dan* First that is not my bench. That is some yuppified bench off of Google images. I am fond of making fun of yuppies since I, inescapably, am one. Plus, I really don't know Emmert pattern making vise is. I have heard of them however.

*Ken* Love your bench. Aesthetically I prefer the solid top. Also, I prefer the end cap encompassing the entire top. Wonderful job brotha.


----------



## mochoa

Scott, sounds good to me, no sense in wasting all that wood away anyway if you did have the right size piece. I bet it will slide better too.


----------



## lysdexic

Random bench building pic. Installation of the parallel guide using draw bore pins. My first experience with this technique. No draw bore pin. No problem. Me like.


----------



## mochoa

Sweet! How much offset did you use?


----------



## KenBry

Thanks for all the kind words. Yep, looking forward to benchcrafted releasing the new hardware. ;-)


----------



## lysdexic

1/16". I did smooth the pegs slightly with some sandpaper because the pegs come out of the dowel plate just a tad fat. Obviously, I tapered the end.


----------



## BrandonW

Scott, you should route the edges of that deadman with a sweet Roman ogee bit. You'll love it.


----------



## Boatman53

Yes Doss the sprockets are made from bronze. Actually made from old/bent propeller shafts from boats. Just something that happened to be on hand and I'm very pleased with it. 
Jim


----------



## Bertha

Scott, Emmert:
.








.








.


----------



## dbray45

I finally have a question, of sorts - For work benches, I generally like maple, birch, and the like BUT, I may have access to some seriously sweet Eastern Black Oak. From what I am told, this tree was QS 8/4 thickness in widths up to 20" - it air drying for the summer.

I'm thinking, this might make a seriouly nice bench and countertops.

Any ideas?


----------



## mochoa

Wow black oak? What does that look like? Seems a shame to cut up 20" boards for a workbench. Sounds rare..


----------



## Doss

I'll let the big guys speak of the worthiness of the species for a bench (I don't know much about that wood, but, IIRC, it's like red oak). I'd say right now though, it probably needs to dry some more. At 8/4, I'd think the wood is still pretty wet (the center). If it can be moved in to a conditioned or dry (air) area for about 4-12 more months, it'll probably be pretty dry by then.

If I did remember correctly though, to use it as a countertop, you'll have to make sure you seal it properly. Those pores would make an excellent breeding ground for all sorts of nasty things.


----------



## dbray45

It sat as a log for about 10 months, been sawn and stickered for 2 - 3 months, figuring late August - October I'll put a meter reading on the wood and see it we are down to 8-10%. Once I get in my basement, I should get it down to 2%.


----------



## mochoa

Since its 8/4 and quarter sawn you'd have to glue the faces together right?, to get them to desired thickness.


----------



## dbray45

I would leave the boards as whole planks and put a piece of 3/4 maple birch ply under the slabs. I have some 3"x3" posts for legs.


----------



## Sylvain

Have you noticed the strange brace in the top right corner of the picture of the old bench posted by Bertha?


----------



## ksSlim

Brace looks to be an "offset". Similar idea to a "corner" brace. Can't get your body lined up with the needed hole, offset it.


----------



## Bertha

I was thinking the same thing as Doss about the pores. Sometimes a really good wood score paralyzes me (not that it happens that often). I'll get a piece that I like to much to use, if that makes any sense. First of all, concentrate on the getting; then the project


----------



## Mosquito

Al, do you get lumber sometimes simply because it looks amazing too, but have no plans for it? I just did that with a piece of poplar last week… no use for it yet, but it looked so good I couldn't leave it…

I also still have that 8+ foot hard maple 2×4 I got over a month ago… at $20 I couldn't not get it, but don't know what I'm going to do with it yet…


----------



## Bertha

^yep, I definitely do that. I'll see a cut up pine log on the side of the road and have to resist pulling over. I bet I have 250 pen blanks, lol.


----------



## alba

*Al*
Poor you only 250 LoL

jamie


----------



## Brit

Sylvain & KsSlim - It is called a Wimble brace. Huge amount of torque with those bad boys. I've never tried one, but a lot of people find them difficult to get used to.


----------



## mochoa

How about the portable drill press thingy on the floor, I think I have seen that before, its for setting on top of large timbers to bore out mortises for timber framing if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## dbray45

Al and Mos - Yep, I do that. I have a piece of 3"x12"x8' red oak (no knots); a few 3"x3"x4' cherry and oak posts, and 4 10"-12" x1" x8' cherry boards that don't have a single knot in them - all slated for something in the future


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio,
That entire picture is cool. I studied it for quite a while. Wonder where Al got that one?


----------



## mochoa

By the way, as far as laminating solid wood onto plywood, I'm not sure that's a good idea, it will make for uneven moisture exchange and severe warping. In fact I think there is a perfect example of that in Scott Landis' Book. I'll double check.


----------



## Bertha

^Scott, I just googled emmert and picked the most glorious picture.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

For Maur:










Meant to post this pic when the topic first came up…


----------



## lysdexic

Smit,
Maur asked a question about dimensions at the end of my chop blog entry. I don't think you saw it.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Smitty! Do you know the depth of that groove and the length of the tenon?


----------



## lysdexic

For those who follow this thread but not my bench build, I just posted the installation of the Chain Leg Vise.










Just FYI.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'll get some measurements tonight on the deadman, Mauricio!

Egads, what a leg vise. Seen the dad's Leg Lamp in A Christmas Story? I'd like to put that leg (vise) in my window for all to admire…


----------



## mochoa

Scott, like I said on your blog post, Damn that is Sexy!

Smitty, thanks, I will have to do the trial and error thing to get it right but your measurments will be helpful as a starting point!


----------



## RGtools

AH Ha!! Now I know how that works. Thanks Scott. Where did you get the chain drive hardware?


----------



## Boatman53

Hi RGtools, he got the parts from me. I sent him a preproduction model to install because he was just building and using BenchCrafted hardware. I wanted his reaction with the glide screw. I'm going to pick a manufacturer next Monday, and if I go with the shop I spoke with today they might be available before September. But I'm not really sure yet.


----------



## RGtools

I wondered. I hope you are successful and I hope some of that money comes from me.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Maur - slightly less than a 7/8" dado, w/ 7/8" tenon on top 'the deadman…


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Smitty, I've been thinking about it all wrong. Yourse looks about 1" thick, does that work well for you? I lot of the plans I've seen call for one that is about 2".

I have a sweet piece of Jatoba that brandon gave me that may work out great but its going net out at about 1"


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The deadman ended up being 1" thick to work with the #203 clamps in the picture above; they only hook fully if the material is the right depth. You can see I removed material to get it where it is today, and it was low tech: many passes over the tablesaw. I mean many.

Does 1" hurt in any way? I'd say not. I even use the Veritas hold down with great effect in the deadman (that accessory, while pricey, is highly recommended).

You can use that jatoba in a three-piece assy mode (top and bottom with ogee-type deco, jatoba in between), that 'd be very sweet indeed.


----------



## Bertha

Boatman, I'm still in on the chain. That's a slick setup and I totally get it now, thanks to Scott. You might owe him a few Magic Hats for installing it on one of the finest benches here Have you estimated a retail price yet? If so, ballpark it via a PM if you don't want to commit. I understand that it'll be very ballpark.


----------



## BrandonW

Mauricio, I used one of those jatoba pieces for my deadman and I think it works just fine, it even holds holdfasts. But if you need a thicker piece for the deadman, let me know and I can give you another piece of jatoba which you can use to laminate the two.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Smitty. Yeah I saw how the back of yours was hollowed out, I was puzzled but now it makes sense. I could do the same with my piece of Jatoba except I could cut off pieces (tenons) and glue them on the back of the main part of the dead man.

Do they usually make them 2" thick so they work with holdfasts? However the #203's are intriguing and they seem to go for reasonable prices on ebay.

I hand planed the jatoba last night, it's so nice I almost feel bad drilling holes in it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The 'whack-a-mole' holdfasts aren't what I'd count on in a 2" deadman anymore, but I guess they'd work. Maybe not so much on an assembled deadman… something to think about.

You'll be competing with Don Yoda for #203s; he's been in that market for months.


----------



## Bertha

There's a 203 about to pop on Ebay in 4 hours or less. 2 bids at $15 or so. 
Edit: Smit you know I'm not a Veritas, SawStop, or Grizzly fan, lol; but those Veritas Wonderdogs and holdfasts are just impossible to beat.


----------



## mochoa

Brandon, thanks, much appreciated but I think I can make this on one work. Thanks again for the Jatoba, it is some beautiful wood.


----------



## KenBry

Scott and Boatman that is an awesome set up. I am really looking forward to seeing the end cost on the set up. Hopefully Benchcrafted will get their hardware on sale in the next day or two.

NOW I have a QUESTION (lol): I am going to be building my leg vise chop soon. I am trying to decide a good method to build it. I like the layout used on Scotts bench and the wood whisper style. However using 1 solid piece of lumber… Not too sure. I was thinking about doing like I have done on the rest of my build. Laminate up allot of Maple and then cut it to size. The question is would I be taking a chance if I made the laminations perpendicular to the leg. Meaning if I only clamp down say half a project would the glue possible give out and cause separation? OR should I make my laminations parallel to the leg and it would be strong.

I like the idea of a multi colored chop with laminations of the Maple I have and some walnut that I have. This being the perpendicular method I spoke about above.


----------



## mochoa

Ken I would guess it would be plenty strong. I think PurpLev did something like that, you may want to check out is build blog.


----------



## mochoa

Here you go.


----------



## lysdexic

*there you go - Mauricio posted before I could get to it.

Ken, my chop is a lamination but it is a face/face lam of 9" boards not edge/edge if I am understanding you right. I try to keep in mind that the glue joint is supposed to be stronger than the wood.

If I do understand correctly, you could use three joints with the screw going through a solid central piece and then two contrasting edge/edge laminations on each side.


----------



## BrandonW

I think it'd be strong enough ken and would look better, too. Plus, all we use leg vises for is to crush cans, right?


----------



## lysdexic

I need to post my can crushing video. I am a computer literate fellow but Ive never worked with video files except ripping big _VTS DVD fles.


----------



## KenBry

Thanks guys, I was going to do a racing stripe thing actually with the walnut pieces in to the center area LOL…


----------



## BrandonW

You should make it a checkered flag, or better yet, Ken, make it have flames.


----------



## KenBry

Scrap cutting board parts all glued together? LOL…Yea no…..I already did the Dead man where I ran walnut vertically and drilled the support holes in the walnut and used a lighter collored maple on the outer area and a darker maple in the center. I'll snap a pic later tonight and post it.


----------



## Bertha

I think in laminations with adequate surface area, given the tech behind the modern glues, I bet we worry too much about delamination. I've got a >100 year old 18" deep butcher's block that's probably lam'd up with hide glue. It's been pounded on unmercifully and still holds up. I've never had a Titebond III joint fail and I've made some seriously crummy joints in my days. I had a doweled butt joint fetish going for a while there, lol. 
Edit: only to note that I used "butt" and "fetish" in the same sentence. No jokes necessary.


----------



## lysdexic

Not to mention that you doweled the butt joint. Uggh.


----------



## mochoa

Do you guys have any advise on where to drill holes for holdfasts? I'm thinking one that clamps over the leg with the vise on it, where else have you guys put yours?


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio, holdfast holes are addressed in the PDF that I sent you. I have no further insight.


----------



## mochoa

I missed that part Scott, I'll take another look, thanks.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I drilled the benchtop for four as shown in the Schwarz blue book, then later added holes in a single row to line up with the end vise' pop-up dog. Then three each on the front legs and that's it. Haven't wanted more holes in the top than that, and the leg holes hold the holdfasts.

Now, use the words butt, hoss, bullocks, fetish and friggin' in a single, interesting sentence… bonus points for mentioning mc hammer…


----------



## KenBry

I put the Roubo square dogs on my working side of my bench. I have yet to drill 3/4" holes in the top for various other accessories {];-)


----------



## SamuelP

_Hoss'_s butt-fetish is as friggin' bollocks as MC Hammer's pants.

Not sure if it is interesting.


----------



## Brit

"If you're sayin' I got a friggin' Roubo fetish," exclaimed MC Hammer, "then yo' talking bollocks Hoss and you can kiss my butt!"


----------



## Brit

Why is it interesting? Well who knew Hammer had such a varied vocabulary?


----------



## KenBry

This is the Deadman I made for my bench. I was thinking (see above postings) of making the Chop similarly. Oh and on a side note, I have yet to go all over the bench and apply a finish to every open hole…That will be a project all on it's own LOL…

In case anyone is wondering that Dead man is Soft Maple on the outer sides, walnut and the center is also maple but it's center tree brown maple.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ I love it!

The Hammer-time sentence challenge, that is. Banded chops and sliding deadmen will have to grow on me awhile…


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## Bertha

^major style points.


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## mochoa

Ken, I think it looks sweet, the colors go well together. I'm interested to see what you come up with for the vise chop.


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## mochoa

Some thoughts on holdfast locations.









The holdfasts have a 7" reach so placing them 14" apart within reach of the front edge of the bench you pretty much cover the whole thing. At least on my bench where the solid portion is about 15" wide.


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## mochoa

And of course because I'm going with round dog holes I can put a hold fast in any one of those wholes as well.


----------



## BrandonW

I think that's a good set up, M. Are you going to have a plane stop? I've thought about adding one to my bench, but haven't committed to it yet. Does anyone here use theirs a lot?


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## mochoa

You know, I think the planing stop looks cool but for it to be truly fuctional the way it was meant to be, it needs to have saw teeth on it to grip the work. I think in the age of end vises its not really needed. But I still think it would be usefull if you had a jig for planing thin pieces that clamped in your vise, one of those could use the support of a planing stop. But then again if you make it a little extra long you could just back it up with a hold fast.


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## mochoa

Actually after seeing this picture I think I will leave it out.


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## mochoa

This is what I was thinking originally.


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## bandit571

Gave my "new" work bench a workout, yesterday. I was actually planning wood on it! I had some boards to get jointed for a top glue-up. A few swipes with the KK7, and into the clamps it went. Had four legs that needed tapers on two sides. Bandsawed the waste, leaving most of the lines. Clamped up in the leg vise, tapers were cleaned smooth with the #6s, and a final pass with the Parts Plane #4. Top came out of the clamps, and right onto the bench. Clamped it down with two clamps into the aprons. Flattened both faces of the top. Got a little "TV Table" put together for the GrandBRATS to watch some toons on. nothing fancy, might last longer than the TV…









KK7??? yep, got some new handles made for it, as well. Then put the new handles to work..


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## Bertha

Mauricio, I've got that exact same thing on my tiny little bench. It's really thin and spans two dogholes.


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## Boatman53

I have two planing stops on my bench and use them far more than I thought. I also have a back row of dog holes so between the stops and a couple of dogs I can lock in a piece of wood diagonally. It's really quick. The planing stop can be about 2" up or just a fraction of an inch. They adjust with a home made knob. I like them because they are there ready to use and take no time to adjust. Just my experience so far.


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## mochoa

Hmmm, ok the stops are back on the drawing board.

Jim, I see you have two of them, do you use the two or would 1 suffice?


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## RGtools

The holdfast layout looks good thoug I doubt you would use the one in the left leg. If I pu one in the left leg I would put it about 22" from the top in line with another on the other leg…that way I could work the edge of doors at a comfortable height by removing the vise.

Regarding stops…I know most people will cringe, but when I am planing severl parts to size a couple of finish nails in the right places on your bench and make your life SO easy. Most recently while traversing the 43"x24" panels from my tool chest, the force from taking heavy shavings was ripping my work out of my tailvise, Two nails poking 16th up at the back of the workpiece stopped the ********************fting (and the cursing). If I want to be a bit more sophisticated, I can secure the stops with holdfasts, dogs, the vise and of course clamps.

There are many ways to get it done, as long as your work stays put and the set up can be done quickly life is grand.


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## mochoa

Good point about the holfast on the left leg, I may leave that off for now and see how it goes.


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## BrandonW

Holdfast in the left leg? Isn't that where your leg vise is going?


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## mochoa

Yeah, I've seen a lot of Roubo's with one there for use when the leg vise is removed. The dude in Landis' book uses it to clamp a batten, that in conjunction with a Crochet (which I'm havent planned on) makes for quick edge jointing.

Thanks all for letting me think out loud here and iron out the details.


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## mochoa

Here is what I'm thinking with the deadman:









I know a lot of plans call for a 2" dedman but I'm not really seeing the advantage in it. At about 1" I can use one of those #203 clamps like Smitty has if I wanted to.


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## KenBry

BENCHCRAFTED is taking orders again as of about 2 hrs ago. Ordered my parts


----------



## waho6o9

That's great news Ken.


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## lysdexic

As you guys know, I struggle with rust in my shop and the BC hand wheels are no exception. I guess I have caustic skin oils and I live in a humid area AND my shop is not air conditioned.

BC also posted a video on cold bluing the wheels to prevent oxidation. I thought about the flax oil method but it did not appeal to me for some reason.

However, I don't mind the bluing and I love the rust prevention. Next stop….the gun shop.


----------



## KenBry

I was looking at the Flax seed oil treatment


----------



## RGtools

Gunsmiths and woodworkers unite. Bad Axe is another good example of that.


----------



## Boatman53

Mauricio.. Mostly use one stop but if the board is say 8" I'll use two. They are very convenient.


----------



## mochoa

Scott, the rust is probably due to you being so damn salty. The blueing will look cool.

Thanks Jim, I think the stop is back in.


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## lysdexic

The only salt coming out of my pores are lithum salts.

I bought a bumper sticker today.

" I hate being biploar. It's awesome."

Just kiddin'. Kinda. No really, I am….. Kidding. :^)


----------



## Boatman53

I'm having trouble keeping up with everything so I can't remember, did you glue up your top yet Mauricio? If not or for others contemplating it, I left gaps in my laminations where the stop were to be, so there was no mortising needed. It had to be well planned so they were in line and right at the edge of the stretcher location. I just needed a little fine tuning with a chisel to bring them over to the edge of the stretcher. But it was nothing compared to mortising, and the holes are dead square.

Scott.. I have the same problem with rust. Only for me the salt comes from the air and water. I'm often working just feet or inches from the salt water. I hate rust, that is why I chose what I did for the chain thingy. I know one thing that keeps rust at bay, constant use. The tools I use the most rust the least. So use that vise every day.


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## 502flier

I was in the basement of a turn-of-the-century summer vacation home a couple of months back and what I thought was a 12 foot long table (being used to store numerous boxes of junk), turned out to be one big-a$$ workbench with a vise built in. I wish I could figure some way to get the owner to part with it. I'm thinking it has been in that basement since the house was built, because it would have to be dismantled to get it out. (Log home, built for Captain somebody-or-other, probably in the 5000 sq. ft range, still has the original cedar gutters, and a 'chinaman's room' in the basement. I kid you not - saw the original blueprints)

Vancouver Island


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## Brit

Hey Scott. I don't think bluing prevents rust. It might provide a tiny bit of protection from rust, but I believe you will still need to oil the wheels. Do it if you prefer the finish, but don't be surprised if they still rust.


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## lysdexic

Thanks for the wet blanket, Andy :^)


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## Bertha

Let's strip that blanket off.
*" I hate being biploar. It's awesome."*I lol'd.
I also like
"I may have Alzheimer's. But at least I don't have Alzheimer's" 
Poor taste, I'm known for it.


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## Brit

Don't ever change Al. You crack me up.

Scott - I'm no expert, but just out of interest I did a Google search with 'Does Bluing prevent rust?' The concensus was that it didn't. Just passing it on brother.


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## shopdog7

I built this workbench about 10 years ago from a plan I purchased off the internet. I made it out of some maple that a furniture manufacturing plant was throwing away. I added the cabinet with the dovetail drawers from my own design. The top which is 3" thick was router/planed perfectly flat after vices were installed. I have had many offers from customers through the years to buy this bench, but would never part with it. It has proven to be the most used piece of equipment in my shop.


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## BrandonW

Beautiful bench, shopdog. I can see why that would be the most used tool in your shop!


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## Bertha

It's fantastic shopdog.


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## waho6o9

That's an awesome workbench shopdog7.


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## mochoa

Very nice shopdog!


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## Brit

That's a beast Shopdog. Nice work.


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## 502flier

While some of us are on the topic…I'm a schizophrenic, and so am I.


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## lysdexic

*Andy*, just to be fair. Jameel did recommend oiling the wheels. From the blog entry:

*"It also helps greatly in preventing rust (especially if you oil the wheel afterwards.)"*


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## DanKrager

For years I have used talcum powder (baby powder) to prevent rust from air moisture. It works best on cast iron because the powder fills the microscopic pores in the iron and covers the surface with a microscopic layer preventing the air from coming in contact with the iron. Does NOT make the surface waterproof or water resistant, i.e. drinks leave rings. Besides, it's slickery and and smells good. Works reliably in our pretty constant 90%+ humidity.
Polished steel, perhaps not so much. 
In my experience, bluing does not prevent or even slow down rust. I've witnessed several firearms that were blued and very rusty.
Why not a coat of clear lacquer, or a plastic aerosol spray?
Dan


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## Bertha

Look at friggin Dan with the common sense solution. The sweet smell would be a welcome addition to my nasty shop As a gun nut, I can totally relate to freshly blued guns rusting. I had an extremely valuable pistol rust this way and it literally made me vomit (true story). I've resorted to using those 110V anti-rust bars and keeping a ZeRust capsule around. I'll admit that I treat my guns better than my planes, but I've got one of those bars in my plane till. I can Ebay a 220; I can't Ebay a Belgian Browning.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Browning and bluing of firearms is a rusting process that has been arrested. It doesn't take much to restart it sometimes ;-)


----------



## NANeanderthal

Woo-who, somewheres I can speak to as an expert finally.
When steel is blued, it is treated for a short time in a hot water and salt solution (not table salt, this stuff will eat holes in your leather boots if it gets on them) and then the process is shut down by dipping in cold black oil (normally quickseal). Its whole purpose is to resist rust, and it does resist, but that's it. It does not prevent it, and if the blueing wasn't preformed correctly it WILL rust again quickly. But if blued correctly, a light wipe with an oily rag every now and again will keep it rust free. Parkerizing would help to keep it rust free longer, but its not good for any persion bearing surface. If they want it rust free and to look bad ass, they should look into cerakote or KG gunkote.


----------



## Bertha

NAN, I sent a Sig220 for "K-kote"ing a few years back. I'm not sure what they do to it but the finish is the most durable I've ever encountered.


----------



## lysdexic

Not so random pics. I am almost giddy.


----------



## waho6o9

Most excellent Scott!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

*Whew!!!*


----------



## mochoa

WOOO HOOOO! I think I hear angels singing when I see those pics!


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## Boatman53

Scott… That bench looks fabulous. You will not believe how much of a difference a great bench makes. Don't take any short cuts now.
Jim


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## bigfootphil

That's a great bench, more like fine furniture already. I'l be reluctant to do my work on that.


----------



## JGM0658

Although I am not a fan of the Roubo bench (guess I must be the only one) that is one nice bench, you should be proud.


----------



## DanKrager

Let me know when you get the last coat of finish on that beautiful piece of furniture…I'm comin' over with a big ole cinder block…!
Dan


----------



## Mosquito

Scott, that looks amazingly nice!

Ok, I'm going to ask… I haven't bothered to look it up anywhere, or research it anywhere, so can any one give me the quick and dirty reason as to why the split in a split top bench? What's it for? What are the advantages?


----------



## DanKrager

One big advantage, Mosquito, is that you can clamp through the gap in the middle. For assembly work that is a tremendous advantage. In my assembly bench the back slab is "loose" (quickly detached) so it can be set on edge, clamped to the front slab as a square. A board on edge between the slabs just protruding the top makes a great bench hook. The possibilities are almost endless. I don't know if the back slab is "loose" on this beautiful bench. If the tops come off separately, it's a whole bunch easier to carry half a tree than the whole tree. 
Dan


----------



## waho6o9

" A board on edge between the slabs just protruding the top makes a great bench hook" Dan beat me to it,
you can also mortise holes and or slots in the edge of the board to hold saws, chisels, etc.

Many options with the split top. Assembly being a high on the list.


----------



## lysdexic

Thank you for the kind words gentlemen. Yet, that is not why I post. Look at my projects and you can see that I am NOT an accomplished woodworker. I post to show you what your guidance and encouragement has accomplished.

Thus far.

Jim is right. It is not done. No short cuts. Focus.

That said, Mauricio's picture sums it up.


----------



## KenBry

Scott, you have a magnificent bench there. Fine work, i wish BC would semd my hardware so I can get mine to look half as nice as yours. ;-)


----------



## Brit

Looks fantastic Scott. You're going to love using that.


----------



## Bertha

Scott, that's just plain mean.
.
JGM, what type of bench do your prefer? I used to really like the English benches but how I'm really liking Mauricio's splayed leg. Heck, I like them all. For the work I do (or used to do, lol), I think the Roubo is a pretty good fit for me.


----------



## dbray45

Scott - do I see a nick in the leg??? Must be damaged, guess you'll just have to send me that one and make another.

Really nice work!


----------



## BrandonW

Scott, you have a real gem there. It looks like all your hard work is being rewarded with one of the nicest benches I've ever seen. Can't wait to see completely finished final product! I know you'll enjoy using it.


----------



## alba

Scott, do I see a dream or perfection?

That would definitely appreciated in any

LJ's shop


----------



## lysdexic

I am just trying to compensate.

JGM, Al asks a good question. What kind of bench are you looking for? My bench is not be all, end all. I really like the funky, yet traditional look of the splayed leg. If I had the opportunity I'd love a single slab like Smitty. Truth be told the split Roubo plan and bench is a little too refined. I hope, however, the level of refinement will be muted with age and patina.


----------



## Bertha

I can't find a single thing wrong with Scott's bench. I can't imagine how that's going to feel working on. I've never really met a solid hardwood bench I didn't like. I'm not entirely sure why I don't care for the split. I mean, it makes total sense but I tend to prefer the uninterrupted top for some reason.


----------



## lysdexic

I understand completely Al. I dont like the split top. I perfer a solid top like Ken's but I have given into increased functionality. That said I plan on making to "spacers" one with a gap and one solid for the monolithic look.


----------



## BrandonW

Scott, do you own a forklift? How'd you get it into the driveway?

I'm also not a huge fan of the split top, but I'm coming around to it, especially if you can make "spacers" to fill the gap.


----------



## Bertha

I think that the best benefit of the split top is shaving clearance, lol. It's probably nice to drop and f-style clamp in the hole, too. I think the spacers are a great idea but I don't like tool trays.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm definitely looking forward to a review of the split top. It may be a case of have it, use it re: the split and clamping… I've not thought 'man, wish I were able to run a clamp here,' looking at the center of the bench. What scott has built is absolutely georgeous, I wouldn't kick it out of bed for eating crackers!


----------



## mochoa

I'm with Al, I've never seen a hardwood bench I didnt like. I know the Split top facilitates clamps in the middle but isnt that what the holdfasts do? The great thing about the split top is being able to run each piece through a planer individually for flattening.

Its too a shame you cant try out a variety of benches to see what you like before building your own.

I'm thinking that I will like the tool tray because I know would be knocking tools off the bench, but if I dont like it I can always cover it up.

I guess no one knows exactly what they will like for sure until they build it and try it out.


----------



## Mosquito

I think you're on to something Mauricio… I think you should build, say 5-6 different types of benches, and then let people come and try them out ;-)


----------



## mochoa

What do you think I could charge for admission?


----------



## BrandonW

Mauricio, once you're done with your bench, I can try it out. Then you can try mine out. Anyone else in Georgia want in?


----------



## mochoa

IT Nerd, I just got him to sign up for the guild! I'm not sure what kind of bench he has though.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

*I can't find a single thing wrong with Scott's bench.* I can. Location. It would look a lot better over here ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

I don't have a bench, nor am I in Georgia…. otherwise I'd be in


----------



## lysdexic

Brandon,

That is another advantage of the split top. The two slabs are stabilized with stub tenons and spax screws. So you can unscrew the top(s). Then the three peices are mangeable to move.

I won't do this as a matter of routine because I bet it jacks up your flat surface.


----------



## BrandonW

Nice, Scott. Yeah, I imagine you wouldn't do that much either, but it's nice to have as an option. If I needed to remove my top, I'm pretty sure it'd involve a chainsaw.


----------



## Bertha

^LOL Topa


----------



## dbray45

Topa - we can draw straws for it.

The only problem I have with benches like this is - the thing is a work of art - you really hate to see it get dented, scratched, or paint on it. I guess you really need 2 of them, one for the living room and one for the shop.


----------



## lysdexic

ONe thing that I thought would be cool, although minmally functional, is to put back slab on a track and have twin screws through the front slab. Then you could clamp between the slabs.


----------



## Mosquito

Scott, so what you're saying you want is a jumbo sized workmate?


----------



## lysdexic

David,

Don't you worry. It will get used and abused.


----------



## mochoa

I'm not trying to understate how beautiful the bench is but how fancy is it? There is now curly or Birdseye maple or anything. The wood is nice, ambrosia maple and cherry, yeah it's got a dovetailed end cap but besides that it's not so fancy you can't do some real work on it. I'm just saying.

Anyway I think Scott is going to beat it with a chain first to get it broken in.

However I wouldn't go so far as to drop a lawnmower motor on it like some people we know. ;-)


----------



## RGtools

I look forard to seeing the first dent from work Scott. Seriously, I wish my first bench looked that good (then again I would have went with Cosmans bench at that time and the fit for me would not have been great…so I guess things work out in the end)

JGM, I am curious about you bench preferance as well. And what you don't like about the Roubo. All benches have flaws, including the Roubo, I am curious what puts you off to the design?


----------



## AnthonyReed

"Look at my projects and you can see that I am NOT an accomplished woodworker." - I am calling bull******************** on you Scott. You do not build something as magnificent as your bench and then get to claim that you are not accomplished in the province in which you have constructed your art. Guided and encouraged as you may be, you Sir, are most assuredly accomplished.


----------



## mochoa

Well said Tony, I'd call that an accomplishment.


----------



## lysdexic

*Mauricio*, you've got it right. The maple that I used is soft ambrosia. There are lots of defects. The cherry is common grade. Both were $3/bd ft. White and red oak is about the same price. Ash is more expensive I think. SYP is cheaper.

It is not that fancy. The BC hardware is certainly nice but I didn't make that. Joinery for splayed legs - now that leans toward fancy.

Look at what Carter did. He molded to different types of benches into one. Thats fancy. Smitty too. He was able to adapt a god knows how old oak threshold into a single slab bench. No plans. Thats fancy.

The top already has dents and scratches from it using for the past month your so.

Still, I am still seriously considering an inaugural bashing. It has to be worth the entertainment value though. A chain just doesn't inspire me. I have thought about a box of cut nails. A bunch of files and rasps? Maybe Al will let me borrow a box of his Ben-Wa balls.

*Tony*, That is not the first nor the last time that I have been called out for bull********************. I am proud to say.


----------



## lysdexic

Another thing about this (split Roubo) plan that doesn't sit right with me is the right side of the top. One slab has an end cap and the other doesn't. I know the back slab in no way needs an matching end cap but I bet it would be a great aesthetic improvement.

Ken has an end cap across the width (if I remember correctly) and I like that better.


----------



## mochoa

yeah I noticed that, but you have to look at it for a while before you realize there is 1 end cap instead of 4.


----------



## lysdexic

Really, if you think about it, you could make an end cap to span both slabs. I would think that would help keep them co-planar. Maybe not.


----------



## DanKrager

Well dudes, this is definitely not in the same class as Scott's work, but I have conquered a vise problem. The vise is unique in that it does not depend on the bench to stand or function, though it is bolted to it through the birds mouth (crochet) and shooting plank in shallow slots. (I plane left to right pulling.) The throat can go all the way to the bottom stretcher, but you can see the movable throat about half way down where the turnbuckle is. I haven't used it much because it wobbled and the vise jaw leg lifted, throwing things way off. I considered using the chain vise technique, and actually had a cable layout that worked pretty well (think drafting table parallel) but the St. Peter's cross is so much stronger. Kinda looks like my buddy Rube (Goldberg) was here. But it holds very solidly, doesn't climb or wiggle. Now that I know how to do it, I plan to refine it slightly and build a nice looking pair. Don't really need the bottom "glider" anymore, and the bottom stretcher can be a little taller. The screw can be closer to the top. Ideas suggestions welcome. Keep portability in mind.


----------



## Boatman53

Dan that is umm….very interesting. There's a lot going on there that's for sure. I'm not sure what you would benitit from putting the screw closer to the top. The upper pivots for the cross as well as my chain want to be as close to the screw as possible. Since you are using a small screw diameter the fastenings for the upper arms for the cross could be in the same plane as the screw. Since your cross is on the outside of the jaws it is possible. That would give you the truest parallelizem. 
Have you thought of just building a leg vise independent of the bench? My first chain prototype is built that way, two bolts and it's off and still works independently. You would lose that deep adjustable throut capability however. The chain would keep the jaws parallel and depending on the width of the jaw you could still have 2+" along side the screw. Keep at it you'll find something that works for you.


----------



## DanKrager

Jim, I saw your free standing leg vise picture and studied on it awhile, deciding. I may end up doing something like that using what you suggest here, too, but I HAD to finish the thought I started! Money is a big object and right now I have more time than money, so used what I had at hand. The cross pivot pins penetrate clear through, and I see your point about parallelism. At the time I did this, I didn't think parallelism would be affected seriously by locating where there is no interference with existing stuff as long as there was sufficient leverage available. The silly thing was teasing me because it almost wanted to stay parallel without help, but I gave up and applied the help, clumsily. Having reached a functional milestone, I'll think on polish and refinement next. Thanks for your suggestions!


----------



## DanKrager

One thing I wondered about, Jim, is how this chain vise works so successfully with tension in only one direction. A drafting parallel requires two cables, opposing each other. The chain keeps tension on the lower jaw leg in only one direction. If the low beam sticks a bit (it's not supposed to), during closing, the chain does not overcome that. So the chain device works because the lower beam does not stick and the beam-leg joint assembly is very rigid, and the chain completes a virtual rectangle that does not flex. The rigidity creates the opposing and balancing force. Just trying to confirm what I think I learned from this exercise using my "flimsy" arrangement.


----------



## Boatman53

I think you've got it. The chain only keeps it parallel in the one important direction. If the beam and mortice are not sized well and there is some sticking the chain will not correct that. I have a roller under the beam on the inside of the leg to support the weight of the chop, beam and screw. It is very smooth, a one finger spin smooth. Since the roller is on the inside of the leg all the weight wants to move into the bench. That keeps the chain snug and once something is clamped the chain comes up tight.


----------



## DanKrager

Well, they don't come much simpler and cheaper than this! Still going through old posts and came across it. This is a good thread for the post.
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/59322
Dan


----------



## NormG

These a4re all wonderful benches. I would show mine but you wood knot believe it


----------



## Bertha

Dan for the win! It reminds me of Frankenstein's shoulder vise I bet it would function well for cutting dovetails on a wide board, just like a shoulder. It may look strange to a traditionalist, but I think the function is there in spades. I'd hate to see Scott's version. I think some mother of pearl inlay and scroll work would find its way in there


----------



## Bertha

Dan, that pseudo-moxon is really interesting. I was just thinking that your vise widened and shortened might achieve the same purpose. I'm intrigued.


----------



## BrandonW

Dan, I think a video is necessary.


----------



## mochoa

Dan I agree with Brandon, I need a video, I cant picture how that vise works.


----------



## mochoa

Does anyone have any tips on cutting the legs to final length? I don't have the benefit of just cutting the legs all to the same length since I'm doing the splayed leg thing. I've got my lines marked off but I was scared to make the cuts last night. I need to make the cuts before assembly.

Before making my marks I shimmed the legs so that the top was level font to back and the front legs were plumb. My concern is that I'm on a concrete floor in a garage that is not going to be perfectly flat or level. At the end of the day am I going to have to shim the legs anyway once it's in its final location or does the weight of the bench take care of any small discrepancies?

My bench is going to end up pretty low, slightly over 33" (I'm 6'2"), I probably should have made the back legs a little longer when I rough cut them which is why I'm cutting it so close. Otherwise I would be making the bench a little taller. If The Schwarz is right I'll be ok. 33" is the height of his bench and he is 2" taller than me. I think it will be great for planning but I do plan on making a bench-top-bench eventually for joinery and carving.


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio,

Ie cutting your legs to length. That is quandary. A solution may be to dry assemble the bench then shoot a string line from the bottom of your front legs to mark the length and angle on the back legs. The string is pulled square to the front surface of the front legs by a framing square.

Once the back legs are marked you can disassemble to make the cuts.

Of course, cut the front legs to final length before starting.

You will probably need a helping hand from your wife.

Maybe some one with more experience has a more elegant solution.


----------



## BrandonW

I keep my bench on one of those anti-fatigue mats from HF, which does a couple of things. First, it's nice to have around when you drop tools. Second, it keeps the bench from moving. Third, if there were any discrepancies in the cut of the legs, they would be absorbed by the mat.

Edit: Actually it's on two of those, but you get the idea.
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-anti-fatigue-foam-mat-set-94635.html


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

In a word, yes, you may have to shim. My bench has a shim under one leg due to the concrete floor (that's my story, and I'm sticking to it). No big deal.


----------



## carguy460

Good question Mauricio…I'm wondering about this same thing since my garage "workshop" floor slopes…in two directions, toward the door and toward the center. I worry about building my bench and "levelling" it since I'm certain that I will be moving it around my shop from time to time…


----------



## Bertha

My shop floor is irregular. I'm just cutting to length and shimming. Mauricio, you might just lay a thin flat board/maybe a long level on the ground and strike a line. Repeat and cut to fit. Just lift it up with one hand and cut it with a fret saw I fear the splayed leg for this reason.


----------



## Brit

Mauricio - I would make the legs the same height and shim if you need to do so. There is no point trying to compensate for a wonky floor by cutting on leg longer, because if you ever move your bench to a new location, it is bound to wobble and you'll have to shim the other legs anyway.

This in one advantage to working on a Workmate on grass. I just jump up and down on the high corner to bury it in the ground a bit more. )


----------



## JGM0658

I like and build the Krenov style work bench with a dead man added to it. Of course my needs are much different. My benches are build with pine, while beautiful I don't see much use for a bench crafted wagon tail vise, I much prefer the LN tail vise, and I after I build a hard wood bench and had a few pieces ruined by them hitting the edge of the bench I moved to soft woods to make my benches.

Of course, my benches are no where near as pretty as some of yours, but mine get beat up on a regular basis, marks from making dovetails, drilling etc. I would sit down and cry if I messed a bench as nice as the one Lysdexic made…


----------



## waho6o9

Put it where it goes, and if it's level and doesn't wobble you're done.

+1 for Brit, that's what I would do as a secondary approach.


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio,
I was just talking about cutting the legs the same vertical height from the top of the bench, not trying to compensate for an unlevel floor. For that I would just shim as mentioned above.


----------



## mochoa

Great input folks, Thanks!

The way I marked my lines was to shim till level and plum then used dividers with a pencil in it to scribe a line on all 4 legs, but that's referencing off of an uneven floor which made me nervous.

Scott, the string square to the front leg is something I hadn't thought of, I'll look at that.

I like the idea of the mats Brandon, I have some now in front of my current bench, Since this bench will be in the middle of the floor I may put some mats covering the whole area to protect falling tools as well.

Andy, lol, that's one of the advantages of your situation for sure! I think your right, cut them to equal length and plan on shimming, it's inevitable.

Hey I could put the mats down and if shimming is still needed I could slide the shim under the mat for an invisible shim!

Thanks again guys!


----------



## Brit

I would get the top of the bench level in both directions and then measure down from the top. Easy to do on the front legs. For the rear slanted legs, use a large framing square (check it first for accuracy) or just screw two pieces of batten together at right angles. Mark the height on the vertical batten (same as the front legs) and then across on the horizontal batten. Should work as long you are holding it plumb.


----------



## Bertha

You could always plumb bob from the top, then use a bevel gauge to strike your line. Then, when you get that dead flat airplane hanger shop with 3 phase a few years from now, you'll be ready for it. 
.
JGM, I've assembled all the Douglas fir for my bench. I wanted maple just because. But I had a hard time finding it. I think if I had my choice, I'd have gone with ash. I don't know what it is about ash but it just calls to me.
.
I can't think of a negative thing to say about the benchcrafted tail. The LN screw is obviously no slouch either. I went with the Lake Erie woodscrews just because I like the way they look.


----------



## Brit

Another approach is to put all four legs on blocks of equal length, so it is raised off the floor about 4". Level the top of the bench and shim the legs as needed. Mark down from the top on one of the front legs. Then get a piece of clear plastic pipe and fill it with water. Hold one end of the pipe so that the water level is against the mark on the front leg and hold the other end of the pipe against one of the other legs. Wherever the water level is make a mark on that leg. It will be the same as the first leg. Do the same with the other two legs and cut to those marks.

Hope that makes sense.


----------



## Brit

Al - Ash looks great, but because it is open grained, you can't easily sweep it off. Jameel's bench is made of ash and he said that the dust stays in the open pores.


----------



## JGM0658

I can't think of a negative thing to say about the benchcrafted tail.

Neither can I, I think it is a beautiful vise, but IMO with limited uses. All you can do is clamp a board, maybe slide a narrow board in the slot for dovetails but the LN tail vise has a lot more uses, that is why I chose it. In the end, as stated many times one makes a bench for personal use, our requirements vary and as such there is no "perfect" bench IMO. The roubo is nice, but IMO overkill, made "famous" by CS.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks for the additional ideas guys. I'll let them marinade for a little bit and see which one clicks.

Andy, that water level trick, that's some MacGyver sh*t right there.


----------



## BrandonW

Then you can shim it with duct tape, too.

I'm telling you, my floors are uneven too, but I cut all the legs evenly and on the mat you can't even tell-no shimming or tricks necessary, unless your floor is just horribly bad.


----------



## Brit

I'm with Brandon and in any case, you'll find that as you get older you tend to wobble more than the bench, so it kind of cancels out any discrepancies. )


----------



## RGtools

JGM, we are on the same page as far as materials go for workbenches. I think pine works just fine. Personally if I can manage it I plan on a splayed leg vise for the front and a LN vise for the tail. That hits my workholding needs pretty well. My dream bench is still made from locally available softwood…for me that's part of the requirement.

Krenovs bench and the storys about his bench were great.

Re. Shims: Me too. My floor is weird and I decided to just keep shims handy rather tha compensate for one spot in my floor…it would just make some of the other spots I put my bench worse.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah, as usual the simplest solution is usually the best. Cut it as close as you can, put it on some mats and then shim if needed.


----------



## Bertha

JGM, I suppose a wagon is not as functional as a traditional tail. The shoulder obviously excels for the wide dovetails. I don't like Swartz, so I resisted the Roubo as long as I could. I think Carter's Whitling's bench would be my dream bench if I had a larger shop. Then there's Mauricio's splayed. Then there's the build quality of Scott's BC. I'm lost.
.
I've at least committed to fir and wooden screws. I guess that's something


----------



## lysdexic

I am not really concerned with my bench being absolutely level. It just needs to not wobble and be flat.


----------



## Brit

I would never try to speak for Al, but…










Just sayin' )


----------



## Brit

Hang on, this thread is getting a bit screwed up. My email says the last post was from Scott and it reads: "You're as lost as an invisible shim." Then I come on the thread and that post is nowhere to be seen. What's up with that?

Did you change the text after you posted your comment Scott?


----------



## lysdexic

I did Andy. You have to be very careful when you pick on Al. He will escalate the level of inappropriateness so fast that it leave you chuckling in defeated embarrassment.


----------



## Bertha

hahahahaha. Andy, is that for sale somewhere? I think me and Smitty both need one Scott's on to my methods. When you feel the pressure, you can always resort to locker room humor and thinly veiled homosexuality. For instance, last time I visited Scott, he really felt the pressure. You can always attach the trusty, "if you know what I mean". That's just Freudian, man; brings out the id.


----------



## Brit

Scott - Al is way out of my league.


----------



## Brit

"...thinly veiled homosexuality…" - PRICELESS.


----------



## Brit

Here you go Al. Personally I like the idea of a paperweight version. You've got to love the guys description of it.

"This is a first class mohair rat's ass with faux suede feet and wired tail."

Well what else could you say about it really?


----------



## Bertha

Now Andy, you know I always go first class with my mohair rat's ass!


----------



## RGtools

Note to self:

Add drinking with Al to bucket list.


----------



## mochoa

hahahahha


----------



## mochoa

Speaking of rodents I was in the shop last night trying to top Dan's shavings to no avail. but I did have some thin shavings to show for it. I was also at the pet store earlier with the kids looking at the bag of shavings they sell for gerbils and guinnea pigs and stuff. I'm thinking of bagging these and putting them on craigslist, say $10 bucks for a gallon bag? Market them as luxury gerbil cage bedding. Or should I say "First Class Gerbil Cage Bedding"?


----------



## Mosquito

heh, Mauricio, this was posted in the "craigslist Dreamers" thread… can't be much different I would suppose:
=materials&ga_search_query=sawdust&ga_view_type=gallery]http://www.etsy.com/listing/68854537/fresh-organic-natural-yummy-smelling?ref=sr_gallery_4&ga_search_type=all&ga_includes[]=materials&ga_search_query=sawdust&ga_view_type=gallery


----------



## mochoa

Wedding ring bedding! Ha ha ha, thats what i'm talking about Chris, chic has almost 7000 reviews! I think she might be on to something.


----------



## RGtools

Mauricio, I would be a tad careful with that idea. Believe it or not some savings are not good for animals. Walnut for instance is very bad for most farm animals.

Pine is pretty safe though.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah, those are walnut shavings. The pet store stuff is Aspen, whatever that is.


----------



## Mosquito

Aspen… I don't like Aspen… maybe I just wasn't experienced enough yet, but I used Aspen on my first project (computer case top and bottom) and disliked it. Using a router on it was very dusty and burned with even the slightest slow down in the feed… That said, I really like the knot that was in the top cover…


----------



## Bertha

OMG I hate aspen. That is some pretty figure, though. Aspen reminds me of asbestos.


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## Mosquito

You can see the fine dust from using a 3/4" router bit for those grooves… I was very glad to be wearing a mask


----------



## Bertha

Man, it's actually really pretty. So light, too. It's a shame it's such a drag to work with. What the heck are you making there, Mos?


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## Mosquito

It was my first woodworking project; a computer case for my home theater pc. The above is the top cover for it
This is it finished and on


----------



## mochoa

that looks sweet Chris.


----------



## lysdexic

Chris - I could talk HTPC's for hours but it doesn't have a good ending.


----------



## Mosquito

Me too… but it would


----------



## Bertha

I think me and Mos have already beat it to death. Scott started me on them, so it's his fault. 
Edit: I can't resist one thing. Which 3rd party job are you using for movie management? I'm using the my movies add-on to windows with a truckload of codecs. Anyone else liquid? Ok, I'll stop.


----------



## mochoa

I'm thinking of making a drawbore pin, mostly because I want a new tool and I feel like making one. I'm thinking of making a fancy one with a brass furrel on it. I like the LN ones that have an octagonal handle with a brass furrel, I may try to do that. 









I think I understand now why one is handy but not essential. Spagnolo doesn't use very much offset so he doesn't really need one. I think a drawbore pin allows you to use more offset, I'm not sure how much I'll use but the pin would seem nice to have.

I've already bought my pins form HF. Now I need a propane torch.









http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/cSchwarz/z_art/drawBoring/drawBoring4.asp


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I am interested in a group buy of the product above, Al. 'PM sent.'

(Not Really.).


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio, FWIW I used 1/16" offset without a pin and without problem. I maybe could have done more but I am a chicken.


----------



## Mosquito

Hmm… now I think I may have done it wrong… But any who, what's the pin for exactly? I didn't use one when I did the drawbore joints on my raised panel door frame…


----------



## KenBry

WHOOPS! I made 12 like this before I realized I screwed up. Lets see how good you guys are. What did I do wrong? Believe me It's a HUGE mistake and this thing is basicaly firewood now.


----------



## JGM0658

End grain instead of straight grain, the dogs will snap the moment you put pressure on them.


----------



## KenBry

Heh, yep, I tried one and it snapeed big time… I got in a hurry and didn't think about it.. Oh well


----------



## JGM0658

The devil is in the details…..don't worry though, I have made similar mistakes after which you will see me bumping my forehead against the wall repeating, stupid, stupid, stupid…


----------



## KenBry

Yea my head hurts… Just got back in from the shop. Got 9 replacments glued and clamped, got 3 waiting for glue. ... Fortunatly it was an easy fix. But it's always good for a laugh.. So laugh and enjoy.


----------



## Brit

JGM0658 - I'd pay money to see that. ) I've slapped myself upside the head on many occasions.


----------



## Brit

Have we had the 'Booster Bench' on this thread yet? Sorry if I missed it.

http://www.grahamikin.co.uk/images/booster_bench/Brochure%203pp%20for%20web.pdf


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^I'd miss my leg vise, and there are push buttons for the hydrolics on the front edge. Good to raise it ala: Moxon, but at too high a price.


----------



## Brit

I agree Smitty, but I thought it was worth adding to this thread as it might give somebody some ideas and inspiration.


----------



## lysdexic

Nope. I've never seen the Booster Bench and for $3927 USD, I never will.


----------



## BrandonW

I'm sure someone here could make a booster bench that raises and lowers on a big wooden screw or something. ;-)


----------



## mochoa




----------



## Bertha

^lololol.
.
I considered putting a benchtop on a harbor freight pneumatic scissor lift.


----------



## mochoa

Ken, that's a good one. If that's the worst mistake you've made on this build your in good shape.

Andy, I think someone posted an adjustable height bench a while back but not that one.

Chris the pin is not absolutely necessary but it makes things easier and lets you use a bigger offset:
"The pins allow you to work with bigger offsets, to know exactly how the joint will fit before final assembly and to pave the way for your peg by slightly distorting the hole through the tenon."

Andy, you have a drawbore pin don't you? How do you like it?


----------



## Bertha

Andy's got a really nice one, if I'm remembering correctly. 
I can't believe Hock doesn't sell a blank. They already sell a burnisher.


----------



## benchbuilder

Just My idea of how the St. Peters cross should look and work, any suggestions or thoughts 
Sorry, can't get it to open larger


----------



## benchbuilder

Just my impression of the St. Peters Cross leg vise, any thoughts on this


----------



## mochoa

benchbuilder is that angel iron? I saw a guy online try to make one with angle iron and it didnt work for some reason. If you look at schwarz' blog about the cross you'll see it in one of the comments from one of the readers.


----------



## mochoa

his problem didnt seem to be due to the angle iron though, it wasnt staying parrallel.


----------



## mochoa

I got some more work in on the bench last night. I cut the legs to length and they worked out perfectly, no wobble. Thanks for the advise all.

I also drilled out the holes for the wooden screw and the wooden screw parallel guide, as well as the holdfast holes on the right leg. Here is a pic. The board for the deadman is just leaning up under the bench so I could see what it would look like. 









I gave it a spin for planning, its sturdy with no glue and I love the hight (~33.5") which is exactly what I planned on, It really lets you get your weight over the plane, you just lean on it and goes! ;-)


----------



## Boatman53

Hang on boys and girls, the parts for the chain adjuster for the leg vise are being machined even as I write this.


----------



## Mosquito

Mauricio,

Stop it.

Thanks,
Mos

Seriously though, your bench is looking great, and I've watched the woodwright episodes for this bench design a few times now. I really want to build one, but time, money, and space are not permitting it at the moment. How much would you say it weighs? Think it might be possible to move with relative ease? I was thinking maybe making one that I could fit through a doorway…


----------



## mochoa

Thanks, Chris, its heavy but I think 2 people can move it. I can lift one side with one hand right now (not easily) but I have a lot more wood to add, tool tray, end caps, steel wagon screw, leg vise, shelf.

I think this bench could work for you because the tool tray and all the things mentioned above are removable, also the base is 24" wide but because its splayed you could probably angel the legs around a door way. If you do the rising dovetails even the top would be removable. Another thing you could do is put a short stretcher at the top with just a stub tenon, (like Scotts split top roubo). then you could attach the top with bolts to make it removable.

If you look at the McGuire benches from UK you'll see a picture of one like that, with the top stretcher and stub tenon.


----------



## Brit

Mauricio - I have a set of the Ray Iles 1/2" drawbore pins with the carver pattern handles. They also make 3/8" pins which I will be picking up at some point.










The total length is around 14 1/2" with the pin measuring just over 8".










For those who say the carver pattern handles do not offer as much grip as the octagonal handles, just look at how big the handle is in my hand and no my hands aren't small.










With my fist closed around the handle, you can see there is a lot of surface area in contact with the palm of my hand and therefore there is a lot of friction. I have never felt my hand slipping on these handles.


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content










You asked how I like them. The Ray Iles pins are the only ones I've used, so I can't do a comparison. What I can say about Ray Iles tools though is that you always get excellent value for your money and these pins are no exception. Not much to saw about their use really. You cut your mortise and tenon by whatever means is your poison, drill through your mortise, mark the center of the mortise holes on your tenon with a bradpoint bit, measure your offset, drill the holes in your tenon, assemble the joint, insert the pin and twist to pull the joint together tight. They serve two purposes: 1) to test the fit without resorting to clamps and 2) to compress the fibers on the inside of the mortise hole and the tenon hole to ensure the wooden peg doesn't get caught up when you bash it in.

Are they absolutely necessary when drawboring? No they're not.


----------



## lysdexic

So how did you cuts the legs? How did you mark them out?

The bench looks awesome BTW.


----------



## mochoa

Scott, I used your idea to double check what I had done, I think it was your idea anyway, maybe it was Andy's…. Clamped a square to the front leg, used a straight edge to check my mark on the back legs. At the end of the day I just took the both back legs and compared them, went with the longest mark and cut them to equal length, same with the front legs. Thankfully it worked out.

Scott, how high is your bench? Your like 6'4" right?


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks for the insight Mauricio. I was thinking about making one like it, and then a dolly wheel set that I could put under one end, and then lift up the other end to move it in and out. Ever since I saw this style on the woodwright shop, I've grown more and more fond of them, at least in my limited space situation.

Thanks for the explanation of it Andy. That's what I figured it was for/how it was used, but since I learned about it form watching the woodwhisperer video, and I don't recall him using one, so that's probably why I didn't. I do see where it would be a good thing… I blew out the back of one of my mortise holes on my plane till door…


----------



## mochoa

Andy that pin looks sweet! I know I dont need it, but like I said from the beginning, mostly I just want a new tool, and I need the instant gratification of a small quick project to give me a boost in the middle of this marathon workbench project.


----------



## mochoa

Here is a pic of the McGuire bench, this bench looks pretty sweet with the twin screw vise too.


----------



## mochoa

Chris, I just checked, doorways are 30" wide so any 24" wide bench would fit through .


----------



## BrandonW

Looks very nice, Mauricio! You are so close now.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Brandon, the to-do list is still long but they should move along quicker. I have to go to Vegas next week so that will be a week lost :-(


----------



## benchbuilder

Mauricio: Yes it is, 3/8"x 1-1/2" angle iron, the problem the other guy was having is he didn't have the bottoms of the cross arms touching the bottom of the slot in the leg or chop. If the cross dosen't touch and there is too much distance between the cross arm bottoms and leg or chop, then you will get the result that guy had. This can also be countered by possibley using an essentric at the bottom end of the cross arms which could give you adjustment as things wear or just a wheel. I believe a piece of flat stock screwed to the back side of the slot would take care of that and give the cross arms something solid to ride on.. One other problem the guy had was the screw he used, it was one of those cheap $36 screws that has too much thread slop. Sideways slop can be countered by using a better screw and a busing at the top of the cross arms the width of the slot. I haven't built one yet but sure hope to soon.


----------



## mochoa

Makes sense, cant wait to see it!

My parallel gide will be a wooden screw with a nut I can flick with my foot (Al, fire away). ;-)


----------



## RGtools

I forgot about the mcguire version of the splay….thank you , thank you, thank you Mauricio. I have been puzzling on how do to a good knock down version of the splay bench.


----------



## mochoa

Glad to help Ryan!


----------



## mochoa

I like the splayed leg, its very solid structurally, I mean, I can plane on it now with no glue or pegs or anything, and my joints arent that tight… But also the stretchers are very wide with gives it a lot of strength.


----------



## Brit

You should never plane with tight joints Mauricio. A bit of stretching first also works wonders.


----------



## Bertha

^tight pants, that's a totally different story.
.


----------



## mochoa




----------



## mochoa

What about edges of on the base? Just break the edges with sandpaper or chamfer with the router? What do the cool kids do?


----------



## lysdexic

My bench is 34 1/2". I am 6'3". However, and feel free to make fun, I have short arms I guess. When I stand next to my bench my 5th MCP joint, the knuckle at the base of the little finger, is still 3/4" higher than the bench top. So, using that criteria, my bench should be a touch over 35".


----------



## lysdexic

I am going to break the edges using all of the above. I will use a block plane wear I can.


----------



## mochoa

Scott are you going for a heavy chamfer or just easing the edges?


----------



## BrandonW

I broke the edges with sand paper save for the dogholes which I used a chamfer bit in a router. This, of course, was before my chamfer plane, though.


----------



## lysdexic

Just easing the edges so it is comfortable to touch, use and move.


----------



## RGtools

You can get a block to most places if you angle it right. But for a heavy chamfer on an assembled bench I might go with a router.


----------



## lysdexic

Andy, I have researched H2O borne poly. One thing that I like is that does not yellow and doesn't change the color of the wood. I am intrigued. I'd like to hear why you would chose it - if you can pull yourself away from the men's diving competition.


----------



## Brit

Thin with water so no special solvent needed
Kinder to you and the environment
Easy to apply with a brush. You can literally just slap it on fast
Easy clean up of tools
Does not discolor the wood. Personally I think this is an advantage on lighter woods such as maple.
Touch dry in around 15 minutes, re-coat in around 2 hours. No need to worry about dust and insects landing in the finish
Extremely tough and durable 
Resists spills (beer) and unwanted staining
Foolproof

On a workbench, I would use a matt varnish and thin it with about 10% water (experiment as each make is different). I would apply the first coat, wait 2 hours and apply the second coat. After 2 hours or the next day, I'd lightly go over the surface with P240 and vacuum off the dust. Apply a third coat and you're done. If you wanted that silky smooth finish (you don't on the top), lightly sand with some P1200 or P1500 or 0000 steel wool.


----------



## lysdexic

Thanks Andy


----------



## Bertha

*my 5th MCP joint*
lol.
.
There's a really good argument for H2O poly. It's strong as $ and like Andy says, goes on fast in thin coats. It doesn't dry like shellac, which is my favorite finish for that reason. You can't beat the water protection and it really doesn't interfere with the color of the wood. I couldn't agree more with Andy. On a bench, I might be inclined to use a penetrating oil myself. I'm worried that my delay-of-gratification problems will preclude it, however. I might do poly over clear shellac. Not sure yet.


----------



## Bertha

Don't tell anyone, but my purpleheart humidor is oil-poly over walnut-tinted danish oil. I wanted that water resistance in the setting of forced humidification. 50% people here said it wouldn't adhere; 50% said it would. It did. >6 years out and the finish is like new.


----------



## Bertha

Studley bench, meh
.


----------



## RGtools

Nice. Finishing is my weak point, it's always good to pick up tips.


----------



## Brit

Al - That's not a bench, it's a desk with vises. )


----------



## dbray45

Al - that bench is ridiculous. No one should be burdeoned with a bench like that. Just send it over here.


----------



## SamuelP

Here is that project my wife and I had been working on.
8lbs 13 oz and 22 in long. 
Willow Rose

I could not use Stanley, Bailey or Keen Kutter, but I happen to work in two wood names.

(ca you work with willow?)

Willow Rose and her Big Sister Naia in my lap.










Thanks to everyone for the wishes. Everything was great.

BTW I am 35 years old.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Congrats Dad!


----------



## mochoa

God bless her, congrats man!


----------



## mochoa

I'm in vegas, I won't drunk text like Scott though, great to see some action on this thread, holler at yall wen I'm home. I need to read up on that finish andy's talking about.


----------



## Brit

Congrats Sam. Glad everything went well.


----------



## BrandonW

Congrats, Sam!

Mauricio, enjoy Vegas and come back with some winnings.


----------



## waho6o9

Congratulations Sam!


----------



## Bertha

congrats Sam!!!!!
Edit: I'm kind of fond of bubinga


----------



## dbray45

Sam - you got your hands full now

Congrats!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Congrats and Best Wishes, Sam! Awesome Pic!


----------



## Bertha

22 inches long, you say….Jack? Jointer?


----------



## lysdexic

Sam, congratulations. That is the meaning of life. That is why we are here.


----------



## lavenrw

Here is the hard maple bench I built. It is a bit smaller than average as my shop is only 300 ft.sq. (for now). I built the base and was starting on the top when the company I work for (Snap-on Tools) closed one of our Canadian warehouses and some butcher block toolbox tops came available at a price I couldn't refuse. I drilled 84 3/4" holes in the top and adapted it to work with the base. I added two Lee Valley vises - one standard vise and a dual handle chain vise which makes it very functional. I would like to eventuall make a big brother with the other (larger) top I bought once I have a larger shop to accommodate them.


----------



## lysdexic

Out of curiosity - how did you drill those 84 holes?


----------



## Doss

Is it just me, or did anyone else look at that pic and immediately wonder why the plane had a lamp attached to it?

I thought, "That thing must take some practice to use properly."


----------



## Bertha

i THOUGHT THE SAME THING DOSS!!!!!!LOL


----------



## lavenrw

Sorry guys, bad photo angle. The light is actually 3/4" and designed to drop into a bench dog hole.

lysdexic, I drilled most of the holes (including the ones on the front edge that match the hole in the twin screw vise) with a Forstner bit in my drill press but the middle two rows were done with an electric drill guide (portable drill press) that I got from Lee Valley Tools. I didn't see it on their site but I still have the box so I can get the make and model # if anyone wants it.
Ray


----------



## Brit

I didn't notice that Doss, but thanks for the laugh. Great shot.


----------



## Sylvain

off topic
31 days ago I tried to start a forum. For an unknow reason it didn't work.
I tried to send 2 mail to Martin Sojka but apparently he does not receive it either. I did not receive any answer while i believe my mails were very polite.
I can not ask for help on the forum lumberjock.com site feedback because I am denied the possibility to start any forum. If I try I receive the message :
*You cannot post a new topic until your first post has been reviewed and approved.*
Would one of you please contact the site administrator on my behalf.
Otherwise I would have to try to register under a new name which I don't think is a good idea.
To avoid multiple persons contacting the administrator, just first advertise here that you intend to do it.

Thank you in advance.
I am sorry for highjacking this thread


----------



## Brit

I'll do it now Sylvain.


----------



## Brit

Done. Sylvain, watch this thread.

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/40329


----------



## Bertha

You cannot post a new topic until your first post has been reviewed and approved.
.
Can't fight the man. Keep plugging away.


----------



## Sylvain

Thank you Andy for posting for me,
Thank too all who have given me support and have put kind words on the feedback thread initiated by Andy.
Thank you to MsDebbie and Martin Sojka who have resolved the problem.

You now might be interested in looking at this thread which has been suspended for more than a month: http://lumberjocks.com/topics/40391


----------



## mochoa

Hey Boatman, have you seen this from LN:

The Leg Vise
Lie-Nielsen has been using this vise on its Roubo workbench, but it will also be available on the company's Improved Workbench for an upcharge of $250. The chain-drive mechanism negates the need for a parallel guide or pin. In other words, it stops you from stooping.

It works very well. Surprisingly well.

If you want to add one to your workbench, the price for the hardware is $285. With the wooden chop, the price is $385.


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio,

You write about the LN hardware as if from experience. Do you have one?


----------



## Mosquito

Scott, I just read this as well, I think it came from here:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/workbenches/schwarz-workbenches/new-bulletproof-vises-from-lie-nielsen

It appears as though the chain drive is an actual chain driven screw at the bottom in place of the parallel guide. If you can view the video at the bottom, it's briefly shown there. When I first heard "chain drive leg vise" this is what I was thinking.


----------



## mochoa

Sorry I was quoting, thanks for the link Mos.


----------



## mochoa

It seems as though LN only offers it built in to one of their benches. Am I wrong there?


----------



## mochoa

Wow after that video this one poped up on wooden thread cutting with some kind of router gizmo. 




However, I dont think wooden threads that are square in cross section are a good idea. I think they would chip easily.


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio,

How are you doing with your bench? I've run out steam lately but continue to make slow progress. I need to take the time and post an update.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks for asking Scott. I figured you would be done by now, are you still reading up on finishes?

I got some work in last night, I was traveling last week so I was out of the shop for a while. I contemplated gluing up my base and top before moving on to all the peripheral stuff but I said, what's the rush, the bench actually works as it is so I'm leaving that for later. Lately I'm thinking: drawbore with NO glue. We'll see if I chicken out and use glue.

Last night I glued up the wood for my "wagon" for the wagon vise. That's pretty much done so next I'll attach my screw to that and the end caps (also milled up). The other day I also drilled my hold fast holes in the top.

In the home stretch!

Here is a peek.


----------



## Mosquito

Looks great Mauricio!

I would think you would be right about the square threads, I would think it would chip or break after some time


----------



## RGtools

Your bench is becoming drool-worthy Mauricio.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Mos&Ryan, Its going to look much better once the end caps are on. The ends are still not squared off and they still have the old varnish on them from when my top was table. I figured I'll keep them sealed for now while it dries a little more.


----------



## Brit

Mauricio - You can buy the chain vises on their own. They've been available for the last 2 or 3 years I think. Quite a while anyway.


----------



## Boatman53

Mauricio… Yes I did know about them, as Andy said they have offered them for a while but I think finally organized it into their own benches. If I understand it correctly the just turned their twin screw face vise 90deg. Don't know what they do for adjustment when things get out of whack.
My hardware is still going to be less expensive and I think easier to retro-fit, and if you like a particular type of screw it doesn't matter. Too late for me to back out now.
It might be just me but I don't think the leg vise looks right unless it has a nice wooden beam at the bottom. A fat wooden screw down low like Mauricio is planning works for me visually but not a steel screw.


----------



## bandit571

Spent a little time, and very little money, and built a bench hook for the bench I use…









Trying out a jack plane on some 2×10 pine. Just some particle board that was sitting around in the shop, and two hardwood cleats. Top one has a long screw sticking down, used that to keep things from sliding across the bench. A look at the other cleat..


----------



## mochoa

Jim, I agree yours is better because it can be retrofit to any screw.
Well see how good mine looks, it may not since my top and bottom screw will be the same size, 2". I'm willing to take the chance.


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio, why wouldn't you glue the mortises? Are leaving the chance that you may want to drill out the pegs and disassemble in the future?


----------



## mochoa

A lot of things appeal to me about not using glue:

• It would be kind of a neat experiment to see how well it works
• Its cool, I could brag about not using glue
• Glue ups are stressful trying to get everything together before the glue sets, especially on a project of this size. It would be great to be able to eliminate this step altogether, also there is no squeeze out to clean up.
• Schwarz had a good point in his book about using no glue, if you move and wanted to take it apart you could, then glue it together permanently at the new place. This is probably a non-issue for me since my bench is not so big that it's not movable but it's a nice option to have. 
• And finally, it's not needed, my bench is actually pretty stable now with no glue or pegs

That's what I'm thinking right now, I may change my mind…


----------



## BrandonW

Forget the glue, if you don't need it. I did glue mine, but I can understand why you wouldn't want to glue yours. As far as the squeeze out and drippage, I taped paper to my legs, so the glue wouldn't drip on the legs themselves.


----------



## Mosquito

Mauricio, if it were my bench, I would probably not use glue either. It just doesn't seem necessary based on the points you posted above.


----------



## lysdexic

I used glue but then again we dont need 4" thick tops either.

Seriously, I can not imagine taking mine apart. If I were to move the top slabs are easily managed and the base is no heavier or cumbersome than a couch.

I just put a thin film on the mortise and tenon and squeeze out was not an issue.

But I am a wussy.


----------



## mochoa

I wonder if glue helps reduce noise when chopping? Is there noise created where the top meets the legs? Would gluing it together make it sound like one big piece of wood?

I was chopping on mine last night (makeing the "wagon") and it made a lot more noise then I would have expected.


----------



## mochoa

On another note you guys have to check out the videos KOVA posted. The second link is of a guy hewing logs to make a crazy outdoor workbench, that functions as a shave horse, bench, and saw horse. The last link is pretty cool too, he makes a table out of big chestnut timbers.

http://lumberjocks.com/KOVA/blog/31437#comment-1326609


----------



## waho6o9

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Walko-4-Professional-Workbench-Table-works-with-Festool-/170890199955?

150.00 for shipping out of Washington and you can have a difficult to get Walko.


----------



## lysdexic

A lot of things appeal to me about not using glue:

• It would be kind of a neat experiment to see how well it works

*I could say the same about LSD but I already know*

• Its cool, I could brag about not using glue

*I bragged about not using a condom once. I will introduce you to my wife one day*

• Glue ups are stressful trying to get everything together before the glue sets, especially on a project of this size. It would be great to be able to eliminate this step altogether, also there is no squeeze out to clean up.

*As mentioned previously - no stress and no mess*

• Schwarz had a good point in his book about using no glue, if you move and wanted to take it apart you could, then glue it together permanently at the new place. This is probably a non-issue for me since my bench is not so big that it's not movable but it's a nice option to have.

*Like you said -it is a non-issue*

• And finally, it's not needed, my bench is actually pretty stable now with no glue or pegs

*yeah, and a six pack of beer is not needed to make me cool and interesting*


----------



## AnthonyReed

^Ha Ha Ha


----------



## Brit

Guys - If any of you are really stressing about glueing up your mortise and tenon joints, you really don't need to. It is possible to glue the joints without getting squeeze out. This is how:


Chamfer the end of the tenon slightly so that glue that is pushed to the bottom of the mortise when the tenon is fitted has somewhere to collect. It is also easier to get the tenon started with a chamfer.
Chamfer the edge of the mortise so that any glue that the gets squeezed out of the joint has somewhere to collect and doesn't ooze out past the sholders.
I also undercut my shoulder slightly with a sharp chisel leaving only about 1/32" all around the outside of the tenon. This ensures that the joint will close tightly.
Only apply glue to the walls of the mortise, not the tenon.

Perfect M&T's every time - guaranteed.


----------



## mochoa

Scott, LOL.

Squeeze out is a very minor concern, especially since I wont be staining my bench. Its just gravy.


----------



## waho6o9

That's a great way to do M&T Brit, thank you.


----------



## Bertha

Did someone say condom? I'm here now.
.
I really like the idea of no glue outside of laminating the top (if you figure out a way to do that without glue or all-thread, you will be galoot of the century). 
.
And Andy is the man, but we know that already. Excellent advice.


----------



## mochoa

Al, I've seen a lot of antique benches that dont even use glue for the top, like you said they bolt two 6"ish slabs together and add a tool tray to the back. As the top shrinks (if its green) you just keep tightening the bolts.


----------



## Bertha

Heck, that's pretty cool. Do the bolts go through the legs?
Actually not a bad thought.


----------



## mochoa

Check it out.


----------



## RGtools

I have seen a lot of these benches in person. They seem to hold up incredibly well. If the top cracked you could tighten the bolt and now one has to know.

Kind of turns the wood movement issue on it's head.

Just be careful drilling your dog holes.


----------



## mochoa

True Ryan, and the bolts kind of look cool I think, maybe for the next bench. ;-)

Question for you and the rest of the esteemed panel. I have the Gramarcy holdfast, in order for them to work I first had to clean off the oil they come coated with then I had to scuff them up with sandpaper. Now they work great. However, now I have some rust on one of them, how do I prevent rust if they don't work well with oil on them? Are they ok with just a light wipe down?

Also, what about finish on the holdfast/dog holes? Should that be avoided? Will it make the holes slick and prevent the holdfasts from working?


----------



## Bertha

Yes! Mauricio. Where is it?


----------



## KenBry

Mauricio, try the flax seed oil coating method. It's normally a method to season iron cookware. It creates a coating that is pretty durable plus it isn't so smooth that would allow ithe holdfast to slide.

Worth a try


----------



## mochoa

Ken is that the backed on flax seed oil treatment that Scott was talking about?

Here you go Al.


----------



## mochoa




----------



## Bertha

Look at the ray fleck on that benchtop. That looks like a smiley face on the top of that piece


----------



## lysdexic




----------



## mochoa

Cant wait to see how it will look with finish on it. The smiley face was for Mads. 


----------



## lysdexic

FWIW. I am not sure how this happened but I have 5 holdfasts from 3 different makers. The pair a gramercies came in the workbench build kit from BC. Two came from that dude in Alaska. One came from Peter Ross that I picked up at the WoodWtight's school.

Anywho, I tested them out at my first opportunity and this was after I drilled the 3/4" hole in my right front leg. The leg is 5 1/4" thick and the hole has an approx 1 1/2" counter bore for an effective 3" deep hole.

The gramercy holdfasts did not work. The other two work great. Thus I guess I will have to do as Mauricio suggests - strip and scuff them.


----------



## mochoa

It takes two seconds Scott, wipe it down with mineral spirits, wrap the stem in a piece of sandpaper and twist it around a bit in your hand and your done.


----------



## lysdexic

OMG, it takes TWO steps? (whiny voice)


----------



## DanKrager

Bertha,
I had a "vintage" #67 rabbeting spokeshave and it came with two fences, a left and right hand. I think I still have the left hand fence… want it? It might fit… I got rid of it because the #67 had only one handle and it never worked just right with either fence. I think they improved the #68 by putting two handles on it. Am I right?  L0L!

When I want something to "stick" as in not slide around, I vigorously rub a resin cake on the surface. (think violin bow resin and miter gauge face.) I bet that would make any hold fast stick tightly. It doesn't interfere with finishes and I don't have abrasive next to my saw blade this way. Pitchers resin doesn't work because it is a powder that won't stick unless you heat the surface first. 
Dan


----------



## DanKrager

Well I'll be dipped! There actually IS a rabbeting spokeshave. Never heard of it! Went to Google to see how deep it was where I stepped, and it was over my boots!

http://www.jimbodetools.com/Fine-STANLEY-Number-67-Rabbeting-Spoke-Shave-p25497.html
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/stanley-68-rabbet-spokeshave-early-model-uncommon

Got me.
Dan


----------



## Boatman53

I have one of those spokeshaves. It's nice, mines got the interchangeable soles, flat and radiused. I did not know I was missing a fence. Dang now I got to find one of those… Will it never end?


----------



## DanKrager

Someone wanted to see a video of this action, so today I got the round tuit.

http://s837.photobucket.com/albums/zz292/kragerd/temporary%20pictures/?action=view&current=TailVise.mp4

It is surprisingly smooth, and as noted in the video it grips tightly and becomes a solid one piece unit when tight. I've actually begun to use it now. It will actually hold between dogs solidly now. The top is level and stays level, but the video makes it look weird. Lens distortion? I think it is going to be useful. Now to make a pretty pair.

Dan


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Dan, that is smooth. What would be the need for a chain drive on it? Anyone?


----------



## Boatman53

No need as far as I can see. It looks like it works very well.my only objection is the bulk of it away from the bench. It is not as compact as a traditional leg vise. But I can see the value in it. Nice job.
Jim


----------



## DanKrager

My thought was that a chain (or cable) in tension would be the way to go, and then I read about the St. Peter's cross and realized how simple that could be. That is why there is a beam at the bottom of the moving leg. It's a disposable remnant due to change of plans. With the cross that beam is not needed since the slot keeps better control of the bottom of the moving leg.

Yes, it sticks out from the bench quite a bit, but the pair will be at the end of the bench where there is available space and minimum traffic. The pair are intended to be used either attached to the bench or free standing apart from the bench when needed. That is hard to do with a leg vise. And the extra deep throat ( the bar acting as throat in the picture) is adjustable or removable. Of course, it pinches harder without distortion the higher the bar.

Thanks for the encouragement. I need that right now.
Dan


----------



## benchbuilder

Has anyone looked at the new wagon vise that Richard McGuire is about to start selling. Its really nice, it has the look of pure art for a vise. The only problem is the cost, its 278 pounds or about $531 US, now I know one gets what he pays for, sometimes, but $531 for a wagon vise, thats without shipping. He must be very proud of it, whats your thoughts on it.


----------



## Bertha

Dan, my signature is actually a quote from bhog. I thought it symbolized how badly diseased we all are
I still need a 66 but one of you jokers keeps outbidding me.


----------



## mochoa

That's a crazy vise Dan, it's a leg vise and end vise all in one. Thanks for the video, I was having trouble imagining how it worked but now it makes perfect sense. Very Cool.


----------



## mochoa

McGuire's stuff is great but I think the exchange rate prices us out of that market. Not to mention shipping.

For those of you not following my bench build, here is a pic of a wagon vise I made out of an inexpensive screw from Lee Valley.


----------



## KenBry

Whew….. Finished…

More pictures in my Projects.
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/70123


----------



## roman

what few remember is that a bench is a tool

tools without scars are like people without smiles

people who are protected from the ravages of time, weather, temperature are the same as a bench cloaked in a blanket

it matters little how much effort goes into a bench but what matters more, is what comes off the bench. A bench left without scars is a bench that produced nothing


----------



## lysdexic

Moron,

I doubt that any of us have forgotten that the bench is a tool. I just prefer nice tools.


----------



## roman

whatever


----------



## roman

I mean what I said


----------



## BrandonW

Moron, I think the idea is to make nice, solid, functional benches that can be used for decades. None of us are building benches to put in our dining rooms.

Nice bench, Ken, by the way! I love that Benchcrafted hardware.


----------



## Mosquito

Moron… Building a bench is a project, and some people like their projects to look nice…

A house is just a shelter, does it have to look good to protect you? No.

Cabinets just have to hold things, do we just make a box with 6 pieces of wood, and slap it on the wall? No.

A ceiling just has to stay up. A table just has to hold off the floor. A clock just has to tell time. A sign just has to be legible.

Why do we make anything look good? Because if we're going to be stuck staring at it, it might as well look good. It's not always about what "just gets the job done". Sometimes it's about being proud of what you've made. I highly doubt that anyone here is going to make a pristine bench, and then let it sit not in use so they don't do anything to it.

-

Ken, your bench looks great.


----------



## lysdexic

Moron, I am glad you are sincere. I'm not. As soon as my bench is done it will hold up my fern, reproduction Tiffany lamp and a picture of Al :^)


----------



## roman

unwatch

thats just a stupid analogy, its like having a wrench that never gets greasy (edit)


----------



## lysdexic

How do you know my wife?


----------



## waho6o9

Great bench Ken!


----------



## KenBry

Moron, are you implying that I won't use it? You are sooo wrong. I bought all that wood for $200, most spend far more for the lumber. Since i had the spare walnut, why not make the bench look good too. Since i spent so little on the lumber I have no concerns about beating on it. The hardware was chossen because it will last from this bench to the next. Yes I said next, this bench was meant to learn on, if I get more space to work in the future I could build a bigger bench.

The effort that went into building this bench was far more than I have put in any project before, it was a tool that I learned from building. Now that this tool is finished I can use it to buld many other things that i could not build before.
My old work mate is now allowed to take a break. Oh and most of all I had fun building it.

Now Pottery barn has something you might discribe. The link is their newest desk. It has to be seen to be believed
http://www.potterybarn.com/products/hendrix-large-smart-technology-desk/?pkey=cdesks-home-office

If you are implying other things I don't get what your saying then.


----------



## dbray45

Ken - seriously nice work. Feel free to drop it off anytime - LOL ;-)

When I retire, and have a garage (repurposed to a shop), I too will build a nice bench. When done, it will not have any dings or scatches, they will come over time. If I do a good job, a long time.


----------



## RustySpur

Moron, I'm not following your logic. In your list of projects, you showcased some kitchen cabinets. Are these also not tools used to store items and to create food? You did a great job, they look fantastic and you showed off your handiwork, but alas, they are just another tool.

Ken, the bench looks great. I'm working on my first bench (pics woefully behind). I'm striving to meet your standards.


----------



## mochoa

Great bench Ken! I know you feel good! You must feel suck a great sense of accomplishment. I know I do and I havent even finished my bench. My only concern is what other project can top that great feeling?

After your around this site for a while you will realize that Moron likes to throw stones and rarely has anything constructive to say. Dont take the bate.

As far as this myth that benches shouldn't look nice, that is not true in every woodworking tradition. Just ask Frank Klausz.


----------



## Bertha

*Moron, I'm not following your logic. In your list of projects, you showcased some kitchen cabinets*
.
And I didn't notice a single scar on them. Almost like they were frowning, right? Like he said, whatever. Someone's just having a bad day.
.
Scott, I don't get wet either. I've got just the picture of me for that little frame. Look under your pillow when you get home.
.
OK….that even grossed me out a bit.


----------



## Bertha

And KenBry, that is a wonderful bench. I agree with what you said about the Benchcrafted hardware; you're not paying that premium for ONE bench. It's kind of a timeless design. Strong work.


----------



## lysdexic

I asked my wife and she said that I am the only moron that she knows. So, I feel better.


----------



## Bertha

Dodged a bullet there.


----------



## dbray45

I don't know, my wife calls me that from time to time - usually when I piss her off.


----------



## Brit

Great job Ken. Enjoy it.

Scott, you made me laugh when I really needed it today. Thanks.


----------



## Bertha

I'm there for you, Andy. I'll provide some of my typical homoerotic locker room humor if it helps?


----------



## mochoa

What do ya'll think would look right as a secondary wood for the bottom of the tool well? I'm thinking Poplar or Pine. The top is all Quartersawn red oak. Whatever wood I use would probably be used for the bottom shelf as well.


----------



## lysdexic

I think solid ebony would do the trick.


----------



## waho6o9

Maybe walnut.

Most excellent bench Mauricio.


----------



## Mosquito

Padauk  I love that combo, though I don't think it would work out very well


----------



## mochoa

lol, thanks fellas. I think….

Ebony sounds cool but i dont know if i can get boards that big and then i would lose tools down there in all that darkness.

Waho, I do have some walnut pallet wood I could mill up but i dont feel like messing with it. I need something almost ready to go. I hate how pine mucks up the machines so I may do Poplar, I've been kind of likeing polar lately.


----------



## RGtools

Poplar will plane smooth and look wonderful after years of use, it would take on a burnished texture that you don't get in harder woods.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Ryan, I think your right, I like the way it ages, I just picked up a nice 10" wide board, not to green colored.


----------



## lysdexic

I thought Ebony was a good choice because I understand the ATF is trying to unload the haul from Gibson guitars :^)


----------



## Bertha

Lol, Scott, I've been watching that. I guess Obama prefers Fender.
.
Mauricio, I've got a ton of shop fixtures made of poplar. It's strong, pretty, and a blast to plane. None of my fixtures have changed one iota in dimension over many years and many temperature extremes (uncontrolled storage for 1 year included). For structural stuff, poplar is my absolute favorite. If I could afford to build a whole bench of it, I would.


----------



## mochoa

I missed the story about the guitars, I need to google it.

I made a book shelf recently out of Poplar, at least the face frames, its good stuff. It is soft though.

When looking for wood for me bench, my lumber dealer had really big pieces of poplar but I ended up using the oak I had on hand. Its cheap over here, was it more pricey out there?

Schwarz posted a blog recently with a gigantic Poplar slab he is planning on making a bench out of, its going to be on the scale of the benches in Roubo's book thats like 10' long and 6" think (something like that).


----------



## Mosquito

I also like poplar. It's easy to work. It's what I used for my travel plane till. I like it for learning to do planing things. Like flattening a panel glue up, or raised panel door. It's easy to work, so you can get the technique down with out spending too much time on one task.

Mauricio, it's also pretty cheap up here in MN too. That was another reason I picked it for my plane Till. It's not terribly heavy either.


----------



## Bertha

It's not CHEAP here but it's available at the big box. Like Mos, I like it for practicing joinery and planing. It's so forgiving, harder than pine but not hard. Like me some poplar.


----------



## mochoa

Mos I've been meaning to comment on your till. Its really sweet. Poplar or Pine were the best choices for that because they give you the best strength/weight ratio. Thats why a lot of tool chests are made of the stuff.


----------



## mochoa

Al everything is expensive at the big box store…


----------



## Brit

I read in a history book that people used to get a pay rise every year to take account of the increase in prices. I think they should bring that idea back.


----------



## Bertha

Andy, either that or a reduction in taxes. Good luck on both accounts! 
I saw an offer for a CD the other day for 1%, lol.


----------



## Mosquito

It's sad that my first savings account had a higher interest rate than CD's do now…

Also, Andy, over here they call that a COLA (Cost Of Living Adjustment) Where I work has something similar every year. They call it "merit review/increase" Basically it starts at around 3% raise and can be adjusted +/- about .25-.5% depending on how your manager sees your performance. It's not something you'll get rich off of, just something to help keep up with inflation.


----------



## mochoa

Mos, I think that is a rarity these days. +2.5% is on the high end of what I could expect to get.


----------



## Mosquito

I really like where I work. It feels old, yet modern. The owners (co-owners) are really cool. We have an annual summer picnic for the MN office at the CEO's house (catered, rents jetski's, inflatable games for the kids, beverages etc) They throw a formal Christmas party every year, and have a "tech gift" at Christmas time. Two years ago they were xbox's with kinects, last year was kindle fires with $100 amazon gift cards. They don't mind if you drink at work, which is rare now, I guess. They usually just prefer that you keep it after 3 on Fridays lol Every now and then the VP who's office is right by where I sit will walk out of his office and ask who wants to make a beer run, and says "expensed, of course" It's a fun place to work (even if I don't drink)  They're more concerned about whether or not we get our jobs done to the best of our abilities than they are how we go about it. It's really nice.


----------



## mochoa

smart, I bet retention is high.


----------



## Mosquito

Surprisingly, until recently not really. They didn't have the most well defined career paths. Until early this year, it wasn't very well defined how you would move from the MDC (0-5 years of experience, recent college grads mostly) into the consulting side, so we would lose a lot of people to other consulting companies who offered to pay them more as a junior consultant. They restructured all that now though, so it's well defined. I imagine the retention will be a lot higher now.

Edit: Man alive, I hijacked the heck out of this thread… apologies.

A bench!


----------



## Bertha

I work for the State, lol. All those perks are like a dream. I need a note to pee. When I broke my leg, I had to basically get a letter from the Governor so I COULD work. I juked the system and got a letter to return without restriction. Then, they dinged me for my reduced productivity. Don't like to work? Work for the government. 
.
Wait, was that politics? Am I banned?
.


----------



## lysdexic

That is a great bench but it bugs me when a thick, thick top is placed a relatively spindly legs.


----------



## Bertha

But does it smile, Scott? I'm with you; I'd like to transplant the top onto something massive. Hack off the tool tray. The top thickness is suspect, too. It's a gorgeous top, that's for sure.


----------



## Mosquito

Ha! Al, I give my girlfriend a hard time about that too, she was/is employed by a VA hospital, so I give her crap for not having to work on account of the whole government job thing lol

It should be noted, that's not MY bench, nor is it a bench I would want to build, it's just *a* bench, and one of the first ones I found searching for an image small enough to fit  I would agree, I would have used larger legs than that one.


----------



## Boatman53

FYI I added some info about the chain leg vise on my blog about it.


----------



## Bertha

http://www.countryliving.com/cm/countryliving/images/Richards-Wilcox-workbench-AA0906-de.jpg



















Bump this thread!


----------



## dbray45

Those gasoline pump handles are sweet


----------



## mochoa

Holly crap Al, look at the beams used as legs on the bench!


----------



## chrisstef

Those bench legs are definately Hoss  ... I need a new bench.


----------



## lysdexic

I like the idea of a swiveling stool


----------



## mochoa

Ha! I didnt catch that, why would you want it attached to the bench instead of standalone where you can move it anywhere?


----------



## lysdexic

The same reason you would splay the legs on your bench.


----------



## Mosquito

my only thought would be so that you don't knock yourself over when planing or something

Edit: looks like Scott beat me to it


----------



## Bertha

That bench has strength to spare. The leg to top ratio approaches the Oprah to Obama ratio. I call it the O:O and I resort to it during my trig homework. 
.
I'd mount that stool somewhere else and just sit on it, looking friggin cool.


----------



## Bertha

And Dbray, I have a thing for pump handles too. I don't need another collection, though. This collection of buttocks pimples is enough to keep up with.


----------



## Bertha

Holy crap, Scott, that was strong as all get out!!!
.








.
You make me very proud, Son.


----------



## mochoa

;-). He probably got tired of people stealing his stool so he made one that was attached to the bench and wouldn't work unless it was attached.


----------



## DavidWhite

Hi All, 
Excuse the interuption, but can I direct all you workbench experts to my design question here?


----------



## jay_m

this thread is tremendous


----------



## Ironman50

Gasping. Incredible work benches !!!


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio,

Any feedback on the dogs and not bending your work?


----------



## mochoa

Yeah, I commented on that a while back, what I did was cut the faces of the dowels a little longer so that the clamping pressure was on the top part of the end of the board. I also increased the angel of the face (by eye so I don't know the angle). So that did work, it pushed the center of the board down onto the bench but then the ends popped up slightly. Maybe tighter fitting dogs are needed? I can definitely see why a lot of people don't believe in using and end vises to hold a board for face planning.


----------



## lysdexic

Sorry I missed it. Thanks.


----------



## mochoa

Scott, have you played with your end vise? You have square dogs right?


----------



## lysdexic

Thats personal.


----------



## lysdexic

:^) Actually I use my end vise all the time. I am very pleased with it. Yes square dogs.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Maur, you've discovered the simplest truth by now, re: end vice-based planing of the faces of boards: as little clamping pressure possible is the bee's knees.


----------



## mochoa

True, I just need to figure out a way to hold the board from sliding when doing heavy across the grain scrubbing. I want to try some leather on the face of the dogs.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

a low-profile batten perpendicular to your work piece, maybe? Not sure if you have a couple holes along the back surface of your benchtop for such things or not…


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio,

I have the same problem thus far. I will put leather on my dogs but i dont expect that to solve the sliding from lateral forces.
I expect the solution lies in a holdfast and batten.

****ooops Smitty beat me to it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Can't find a picture of battens in use, but the holes are here.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah I was thinking that too Smitty, I may need an extra hole or two on that end of the bench.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's still less than perfect, I'll tell you. The holdfast 'head' is often in the path of the scrub or jack, and is something to account for.


----------



## Mosquito

what about using a planing stop on the back?


----------



## mochoa

I guess that is one of the advantages of the split top roubo.

My hold fast holes run down the middle of my bench. I 1/2" piece of plywood with dowels in it to fit into those holes could do the trick for most boards.


----------



## Mosquito

That's essentially what I was thinking Mauricio. I was trying to find the blog/bench I saw it on, but I couldn't… anyone recall the portable/folding workbench that was posted here a while ago? I think that's where I saw it, and I think it was a 90 degree plane stop… end and back edge


----------



## mochoa

One of these? I have them all saved.


----------



## mochoa

Oh yeah, the top pic has what I was talking about. His planing stops are in the tool well.


----------



## Mosquito

Yes, that's the one. I just found the original post (Page 14) by you… That's what I meant.








http://www.closegrain.com/2010/09/portable-workbench-part-3.html


----------



## mochoa

nice!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's a very fine approach!


----------



## DanKrager

Would you consider something like this? I've found it very versatile and doesn't tend to buckle. 1/2" plywood for the harp and wedge. A small tongue and groove keep the harp and wedge mated securely (added since this picture). There is a small hook on the end of the wedge so the harder you push, the tighter it catches. I marked and fully intended to saw out the harp to make it prettier, but haven't taken time to do it. 









Dan


----------



## DanKrager

...to anticipate a couple of questions. 
The harp is secured in the dog holes. It has some carefully placed pegs.
The harp can also be turned 90 degrees to get much wider stuff secured.
There is a 1/2" x 2" strip along the edge of the bench also laying in dog holes that form the other side of the pinch.

Dan


----------



## D11RDozer

Here's mine. Works for me. Benchcrafted vises are great but not necessary. Love the Roubo form.


----------



## lysdexic

Dozer,
What finish did you use?


----------



## waho6o9

Excellent workbench Dozer!


----------



## mochoa

Dozer that is a bas aas bench! What wood did you use?


----------



## lysdexic

Agree Mauricio. BC Roubo design but beefy legs and solid top. Excellent.

He used Watco Danish Oil natural for the finish.


----------



## mochoa

Ash looks great on a bench.


----------



## Sylvain

Bricofleur (http://lumberjocks.com/Bricofleur) has so many nice ideas, I spent 1h to find this back

http://atelierdubricoleur.wordpress.com/2011/03/12/wedge-bench-vise-etau-d%E2%80%99etabli-a-cale/
(an alternative to the tongue and groove idea hereabove)

I also found this on his site
http://atelierdubricoleur.wordpress.com/category/shop-made-tools-outils-maison/bench-cam-vise-etau-detabli-a-came/


----------



## Bertha

^I really like that guy. Very clever solutions. I think he made his own paddle switch one time.


----------



## mochoa

Good stuff.


----------



## shipwright

Since the discussion here is wagon vices at the moment, you might be interested in this interpretation.









Or maybe this leg vice










I'll be posting my new bench soon and since this seems to be where the bench discussions are held, I'd be interested in your feedback.

Thanks.


----------



## mochoa

Wow! Those are really cool Shipwright! I love seeing those out of the box ideas!

On that note you will be interested in this one. It uses a Cam Lever. 

























This was made by a missionary woodworking teaching young men in Rwanda some skills to sustain themselves. 
http://woodshavingsandotherdebris.blogspot.com/2011/09/ameza-ya-babaji-yimbyeyi-big-boss.html


----------



## waho6o9

Most excellent Shipwright, thanks for posting.

I like the leg vise as it looks quick and efficient. Nice.


----------



## BrandonW

Shipwright, I'm in love with that wagon vise, and if I were making a new bench I'd very much consider installing it. I'm not sure about the leg vise, though. it seems like more work to adjust it to the right size because you have to set two pins in addition to the wedge (if I understand it correctly). In terms of style, however, it's off the charts!


----------



## waho6o9

Good eye Brandon, I didn't see the second pin on Shipwright's leg vise.

I still like the leg vise.


----------



## shipwright

I understand your reservation but it is really easy to adjust once you get the routine down. 
I'm going to do a video when I get everything up and running.

And Yes, it may be a small detraction but there are balancing advantages like the price and the ability to remove the whole vice in a few saconds and have a clear bench face for other operations.

I'm not touting it as better, just different.


----------



## Bertha

Awesome, Paul! I don't know how you executed that complex joint, but I love it. 
.
I'm still trying to figure out how I'll incorporate my massive Lake Eerie screw into my tail vise. I think I'll go old school and build a massive understructure.


----------



## mochoa

I'm building a bench with a tool well. I know a lot of people don't like them because they accumulate crap. My question is, for those of you who don't have a tool well, how do you keep things from falling off the bench?

Also *Scott* on the topic of dogs and clamping boards for face planning, I think your square dogs may have an advantage in that the mortise itself has a 2 degree slant. I think this may cancel out force that wants to lift the dogs slightly.


----------



## Bertha

^I was thinking the same thing about square. Seems like a little slit on the bandsaw might give you some fit forgiveness. I WANT to go square, but I'll probably end up going round out of convenience. This probably won't be my last bench build.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Maur, the direct answer is you can't keep things from falling off the bench. But the cause is having too much crap on the benchtop in the first place, and that happens fairly often. Moving from dovetailing to bench planing, for example. To move from one to the other, the chisels, gauges, saws and mallets have to be put away. Don't know if I'd want them in a tool well, because when one task is done, I won't go back to it in the same session. I would suggest you have a well that is deep enough to hold your smoother (to pick a commonly used bench plane) on it's side, below the bench's surface, otherwise there ain't much hidin' to be done in the well. Shallow is one thing that drove me nuts about the well that's in my cabinetmaker's bench.


----------



## mochoa

Here is a rough sketch of what I was thinking. Hopefully you can see what I'm saying and the dilemma with round dogs pinching a board in an end vise.

You want to clamp it near the top so the board is bowed down but the reactionary forces want to push the ends up. With a square dog in a slanted mortise those forces are checked by the slant pushing the dog down.


----------



## mochoa

Smitty, I agree, you have to be organized and that is just not how I work if I'm honest. I also agree that a shallow well doesn't make much sense. Mine will be deep enough to hold any bench plane. I'm also going to keep the bottom shelf open for parking stuff down there temporarily.


----------



## mochoa

Any bench plane on its side that is.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm not organized, either. The bench drawers have been a godsend for me in that regard, though, and if I ever get back to it, the wall hung tool cabinet will be, too. Kudos on the plan to go deep. Any part of the bottom removable for clearing the small detrius that will accumulate?


----------



## mochoa

I had considered it but finally decided it was too complicated. Maybe I should perforate the well board to discourage small crap from accumulating and for all those little small crumbs to fall through? Could also make a couple of slots that would accommodate F clamps? Wouldn't win many style points though.


----------



## mochoa

By the way I've never used square dogs so this is all theory, I've only used square wooden dogs.

Smitty, have you experience what I'm talking about? You have those sweet brass dogs right?


----------



## Mosquito

You could use the perforations for chisels if they're big enough. Or just a longer slot that's wide enough to allow the chisel blade to pass through, but not the handle. That's one thing I'm always worried about when I'm doing stuff is accidentally dinging up a chisel edge and having to resharpen before I can finish what I'm doing.

I start out rather organized, chisels in a row, saws lined up, etc. It never ends that way, it always ends up being everything everywhere on the table, and usually a bunch of stuff that isn't relevant to what I was working on in the first place.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Veritas brass rounds, yup. And sure, it's pretty easy to get stuff to rise in the middle (steady, Al) when you know there's scrubbing ahead. It's when the battens discussed above come into play. There's a trick to it I'll admit to not having mastered… With a couple pieces of cherry, I worked up one side all nice and pretty, but when I went to flip it, the shape returned and I had dished it out by overplaning the middle that was raised off the bench from a tight hold. Urgh. Now I hold with as little pressure as possible, and use any kind of batten system that will work with the pieces being worked.

Not certain it's something that can be 'cured' during design, but the dogs you've sketched above are very interesting and I'd like to see if they work. Makes sense, anyway.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mos, I like the slit idea pulling double duty for chisels and detrious. And yes, I like saying detrious.


----------



## Bertha

I DO get it, Mauricio. If I employ them, I'd planned on making the notch square. I've got round dogs now that I simply glued variable thickness blocks to the top. They spin (round, of course), so the square edge eventually finds the other. My metal popup vise dog is usually the destructive factor, lol. 
.
I need a friggin bench.


----------



## mochoa

The latest installment on my bench build. 
http://lumberjocks.com/mochoa/blog/31905


----------



## Sylvain

Mauricio,
We were once talking about wood screw.
look at the last sentence on this page :
http://www.fine-tools.com/gewind.htm#ziel301855

The price of those Tap & Dye is such that you can not afford them f you don't sell some screws.
(found this on C. Schwarz blog on PWW)


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Sylvain, yeah, I've heard of those, amazing how much they charge. It certainly keeps us armatures away from making screws with that unless we are planning on going onto business.

I'm almost ready to give my router contraption another go. I'm hopeful that I can reduce the chipping this time.


----------



## Bertha

62 mm = 2-1/2" 2 per inch 50 mm 20 mm 301866 ✱€ 1126.00
.
Holy moly! I've just shed the guilt on my Lake Eerie screws


----------



## mochoa

Sneak peak for my peeps here.


----------



## Mosquito

woo! looking great. When's the blog update going to be? ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, that is SOOOOO nice!!! Awesome bench, Maur! Love it!


----------



## waho6o9

Setting the standard mighty high Mauricio, very well done.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Guys!

I have to make the well bottom and patch up my sloppy dovetails before the next chapter of the blog will be ready. Feels like it is moving so slow….


----------



## BrandonW

Looks very nice, M. At least now you have a bench to work on while finishing your bench.

By the way, nice avatar!


----------



## mochoa

Thanks BW. Ha ha, that was the only picture I had of me that was woodworking related (thats the pic of when Brandon gave me the Jatoba that became my deadman). I need to get a pic of my planing at the bench.


----------



## ssnvet

My second humble submission to this fine thread….

I finished this bench up about a month ago (though I started it about 8 years ago) and it is mostly from materials (MDF) salvaged from jobs at work. I put up a long winded blog about it if anyone is interested.

The need was for storage and add'l work surface space for assembly and other tasks.

The top is 1" MDF with a layer of laminate applied to both sides with contact adhesive. I made up the top and cut the reclaimed MDF to size and then the project died do to unforseen circumstances. After all these years the top is still dead flat. Door fronts and side panels are edge banded Melamine.

Now I'm diggin' the drawer space and getting organized. And I use the space under the top for clamps.

Mostly use the bench for assembly and layout.


----------



## Mosquito

that loos like a nice usable bench ssvnet. 
-

I had my makeshift "workbench" out this past weekend… multifunction, really…

Face vise… twin screw, like a moxon…









and no vise, holding a sticking board with "holdfasts" 









Doesn't compare to anything in here… but it's what I've got  (and yes, it's clamped to the porch beam…)


----------



## mochoa

I love that bench and cabinets. I want some shop cabinets so bad. I've been searching craigslist for used one, if I dont find them I may have to make them eventually.


----------



## mochoa

Mos thats nice resourcefulness and you have the best shop atmosphere out of everyone.

Is that the 45? You a big fan? what did you use it for grooving the stretchers?


----------



## Mosquito

After the "workshop you've always dreamed of" (or whatever the actual thread name was) I was talking to my girlfriend about houses and stuff, and that thread came up, and I got to thinking… garage doors on 3 sides would be pretty awesome… I love working outside, it's so nice. But then again, being in MN there's quite a few days in a year that it's just not possible lol

Yeah, that's my #45. I love it. I have been surprised at how much I've used it so far (basically any excuse ;-) )
I used it to put the half-round/beading in the table apron pieces. I don't have a double round iron, so I just used the single one that I had, and made two passes.










I also used it to make the slot for the raised panel door on my plane till frame, making the rabbets around the panel before planing the rest at an angle for the same panel door panel, and the groove for the plywood bottom of my counter top tray, among other things. I even tried to make a wenge (had it on hand) replacement fence for it, that was not square, to use for making raised panels. That didn't work out as well, but that may have more been on technique than implementation. Not being a skewed iron probably didn't help any. A fence like this is essentially what I was going for:









To be fair, I don't have any other means for making a rabbet or dado with a plane. For me it's either the 45, router, or saw and chisels. But, I do like my #45 quite a bit.


----------



## mochoa

those beads are nice! have you ever tried making T&G's with it?


----------



## Mosquito

Not yet, I haven't sharpened that blade yet. I was thinking about it with my table top, but I ended up just doing biscuits instead… I might sharpen it up and give it a go sometime soon, just to see how it works. I've mostly only been sharpening the irons that I want to use when I want to use them… I should really just take a few hours here and there and get them all sharp so I can just hone and use them when I need them…


----------



## mochoa

Check this out yall. I think its pretty sweet. 









And here is how you make them:
http://roughwood.kennethwoodruff.com/2010/03/making-bench-dogs/


----------



## Bertha

Loving that bench Maur. 
Edit: I like those dogs but I have no idea what he's talking about.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Al, I just finished the tool tray. Blog to follow but I'm going on Vacation the rest of the week so I'll leave you with a teaser.

My great reveal will be a little anticlimactic since I'm keep showing the bench assembled. Oh well. 









Apologies for the crappy phone pic.


----------



## mochoa

Al, what was unclear on the dog? Its a round dog with a groove plowed into it for a wooden spring. Looks pretty sweet to me but it seems to me that the spring should be on the same side as the face of dog. the back of the dog is what gives you most of the friction against the dog hole.


----------



## Bertha

I didn't understand the peg he was talking about. I didn't understand how the receiver grabbed the dog. I understood the downward pressure of the plough. They're really handsome little dogs. I think I'd just glue blocks at the end of a long piece of dowel and run it over the router. Not very galoot, true. I really want square bench dogs (I mistyped that "dongs"; Freudian slip), but my stock is 4"x4". I'm just dreading all those cuts to go square. I think 3/4 round is what I'll end up with. I like Lydexic's dog strategy, but it sure looked like a lot of work.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I confess to not understanding the draw of benches with a line of square dog holes filled with square dogs, all sticking below the bench. It's great they're ready for use, I guess, but I've never felt compelled to fill all the round holes in my bench with dogs. I've got two brass dogs that get moved around. Meh, to each his own is the mantra, and bottom line is having a great workbench!


----------



## Mosquito

That's kind of my thoughts Smitty… I'm only going to be using 2 dogs in a single row, so why do I need more than 2 dogs? (assuming a vise doesn't have its own dedicated dog)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I've seen folks smoothing round or oval shapes where three contact points are needed (table tops, for example). So, two dogs in bench, one in vise…


----------



## lysdexic

This is a video shot of the Chain Leg Vise. I did not post it because it is, well, awful. I was too embarrassed and I planned to learn how to edit video. Well, that is not going to happen soon. Thus….....

This video is cheesier than a "cheeze-it" cracker.

That being said, it is a perfect *dedication to Bertha*. I don't know much about Al but I imagine Kid Rock is his hero. The beer can is direct from his brewery in Michigan. I recommend the Chain Leg Vise. I do not recommend the beer.

The point is that you can apply a tremendous amount of compression regardless of the position of the vise. No pin is necessary.


----------



## lysdexic

Allen,

Square dogs are more work than round dog holes but none of us are afraid of a little hard work. If, sir, you want to do square dogs a would be glad to send you a template and a jig to get you going. It is not like I am ever going to use it again.

It does require some pre-op planning. The dog strip will is a laminate. You will have to spend a couple hours with your favorite plunge router. But what is wrong with that?


----------



## lysdexic

Smitty,

I think this what you are referring to. I agree and disagree. The dogs are really long. Why? Thus I plan to make mine shorter.










However, if I am going to go on a square dog makin' spree I might as well fill all the holes. Holy shavings Smit-man, I can increase my efficiency by 1.618 seconds by having a dog in each hole!


----------



## lysdexic

Just as aside, if I had 3 windows looking out to the woods I would not put a column of plastic, part organizers in my line of sight.

Just sayin'


----------



## Boatman53

Scott… I loved the can crush. Thanks for posting it. Love the name of the beer also.
As to all those dogs I am not fond of the look of all those teeth hanging down, and the only reason I would have them is to keep things ( hardware, small bits, whatever) from falling through. That is one thing I don't like about the Festool MFT, it's also what I like about the MFT is all the holes for dogs and clamps. I know I need help.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, love the windows too, and uber-ditto on the parts bins. Yuck.

Don't do the multi-dog, man, I'm telling you. You'll thank me later. 

And I won't even wonder about a saw top that's so shiny, it hurts… Hope it's granite and not cast iron lookin' like that.


----------



## lysdexic

Smitty, the extension on the SawStop is piano black laminate. You'd love it. I wax and high speed buff mine every weekend :^)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yeah, you know where I might fall on the wax and buff scale… ;-)


----------



## Bertha

Lysdexic, I'm going to just give you a free pass on that video, Scorsese. I guess you're right about the square dogs. I'm thinking now that I really won't have to change my lamination. I can just router a thick board. Since I'm making my tail vise from scratch (in theory), I don't have to worry about lining anything up, really. 
.
I don't understand the long dogs, the dong, I get.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

How did you get a third hand in that vid??


----------



## lysdexic

Lysdexic, I'm going to just give you a free pass on that video, Scorsese

That bad huh?


----------



## Boatman53

I wish I had a musical score on the original video. I might have to do a new video soon anyway, something that shows the workings of the chain. I realize you shot that a while ago Scott, but is it operational on the bench yet?
Jim


----------



## derekcohen

European Oak top and West Australian Jarrah base. Very heavy!










A few details ..

The dovetail at the Benchcrafted wagon tail vise …










The tool trays are attached to the wall. They are out of the way but close to hand ..










The wood screw leg vise has an AYS chain adjuster …










There is a review here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/AYSLegViseChainAdjuster.html

There is also a full pictorial of my bench build at: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/index.html (just scroll down the index page).

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## Bertha

I think Derek just exploded this thread. 
.
Derek, that bench is beyond beautiful. I'm going with wood screws as well. It looks like you capped your thread with a contrasting (and gorgeous) wood. Do you have any thoughts about how to approach a tail vise using a large diameter wood screw (Lake Eerie). Smitty was kind enough to provide me with photos of a vintage one (maybe a 1000 posts back). I'm thinking of a large undercarriage but I'm desperate for suggestions.


----------



## derekcohen

Hi Bertha

There are a couple of chapters on the design and installation of the leg vise and components in my website:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Whatsonmybench.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/OhSoclose.html

Reading them gives you a perspective on the way I built the bench. For example, The Jarrah base was built out of recycled roofing rafters, and laminated to get the thickness I sought (e.g. 5" wide x 3 1/2" deep legs). It was a challenge to do all this as the wood is extremely hard and heavy to move around on my own. The final bench weighed in over 400 lbs.

The leg vise screw was a gift from a friend and, although it is not up to the quality of the Lake Eerie or Big Wood Vise screws, it is a good screw and each time I use it I smile. Here is an excerpt from one chapter ..

Wilbur purchased a pair of screws from "someone", who made them for him. This was not one of the current vendors, such as Big Wood Vise. The main differences were that the diameter of the screw is 2" and that it is a two-piece construction (the screw and the hub are separate). I decided to personalise the screw by turning my own hub from Jarrah to match the chop. In one of his emails to me, Wilbur pointed out that glueing the hub and screw together did not work well, and that he had added a dowel through the hub. Great idea! I needed to make my dowel removable (to dissemble the legvise), and so I drilled through the hub and screw shaft, then threaded the screw shaft for a bolt …










I also followed the design of the BenchCrafted version insofar as using wheels to support and guide the chop. This is highly recommended (the internal wheel was later removed to fit the AYS chain adjuster). Here's a close up of the chop(during construction) ..










Hopefully the write up will give you ideas of what to do (there are a few novel ideas) and what not to do! (there was one almighty cockup that I repaired - I was more impressed with the repair than anything else  ).

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## JGM0658

Ok Derek, I never thought I would critique anything of yours, you clearly are a very skilled woodworker, but, in my opinion those dovetails at the Benchcrafted wagon tail vise are just about useless. They are certainly pretty and a testament to your skill, but such narrow pins would withstand no pressure, unless they are decorative. Is that the case?


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## derekcohen

Heh! Actually they are pretty strong considering the number and, especially, the size of the dovetails. They are not the size of a drawer! The end cap is 2" deep!

Still, although they offer strength, they are also decorative. I am not planning another bench, and this was a one-off, special moment. The real strength comes from three bolts that support the end cap. These are strong - each is anchored by a plate (and there is an article dedicated to their installation).




























Link: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaBench5.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## lj61673

*The dogs are really long. Why? *

Because the dogs are tapered at the bottom, there is only a certain height at which the spring can maintain pressure to keep the dog stationary. This makes some of the dog length "unuseable".
Making the dog long as in the picture, allows the dog to be raised high enough to properly clamp thicker stock and still maintain the friction of the spring to hold it in place at the higher elevation.


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## JGM0658

Ah, I could not see the bolts. This is a great idea, one I am going to borrow for my next bench. Thanks Derek.


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## Bertha

Thanks, Derek! You can never have enough dovetails I really like the bolt idea. I'm heading over to your site to learn more. Man, you really got a stash of Jarrah!


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## mochoa

Derek, great bench. I like your bolt idea, I may have to try it it. I''m bolting on my endcaps now and getting the nut in the whole right is a pain. I've alredy stripped three bolts and had to break them off. The little tapped bars would be easier to place and wouldnt need a washer.

Also, I'm going to be making 2" wooden screws like you have. Your blog was intersting for me becasue I was planing on makeing the hub a seperate piece of wood. I'll be sure to insert a dowel for added strength.


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## Bertha

Now my screws look so ugly to me. I love that dark hub.


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## shipwright

I really like the way the chain works with the screw, unfortunately I just can't make one work with my wedges.

As for the video, my bench videos were worse than that by far. I actually spoke and tried to explain the thing. I'm surprised anyone could understand anything at all. Mumble…mumble…. mumble….

On the brighter side these videos we post here are not TV shows for entertainment or profit. They are mostly designed to illustrate a design or mechanism and in that capacity I guess we both did OK.

The can crunch is tooooo cool!


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## mochoa

Here is the latest on my workbench build:
http://lumberjocks.com/mochoa/blog/32228


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## lysdexic

From a Lost Art Press blog entry

Al - you can buy it here for $4950


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Buy it, Al!!!


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## Boatman53

Neat bench. I was thinking about a tool slot like that on the back of my bench.
Jim


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## Mosquito

That looks like it could fit through a patio door…


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## lysdexic

Jim,
I think that tool slot will be very handy. Although, I've not made mine yet for the split top roubo I believe that the center tool slot is one of its (split top roubo) design strengths.

If you think about the cost of materials but more importantly the TIME that is sacrificed to build a bench I don't think the price is CRAZY high. Plus you get a super aesthetically pleasing antique. You save it from the yuppies. Personally, I'd rather have that bench than a Porsche.

Buy it Al.


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## derekcohen

If this type of tool tray design interests you, have a look here at the one I built ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/TooltrayWithaDifference.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## benchbuilder

*lysdexic* I agree, better than a porsche
Now thats a workbench, can you see the builder standing in front of it with his plane in hand ready for a full days work. Did you notice the parallel guide apares to be round. Great part of history there.


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## Boatman53

That round parallel guide was diccused in a WoodCentral forum. It grabs on the prncple of a hold fast. The English bench builder Miguire is incorporating that on his benches. He's has a little video on his website. It grabbed ok but the lower part of the jaw went in beyond parallel. I figure it would have to be mounted something less than 90 degrees and grab like an SOB to really be effective. Not sure how one would account for wear?


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## waho6o9

Al's going to buy that one? 2 cool Al, u da man.


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## Sylvain

I wonder if this bench is fake.
I could understand that the builder did not spent time to plane the strecher which seems to show saw marks from the mill, but I don't understand not planing the front edge.
If planing only one edge I would have turned it to have the front edge straight.
The two holes for hold fast seem to be placed randomly.


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## HorizontalMike

And the tongue and groove shelving on the bottom seems out of character for the rustic nature of the bench. Wire nails were just coming into fashion back in 1906, so I wonder what fasteners were used here.


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## Bertha

^downers above noted with respect. There's a bit of a period mismatch. I think Horizontal and Slyvain raise a few good points. The under-mounted t/g are suspicious. The caliber of the legs as well. I haven't clicked on the link yet (dazzled by its appearance). I don't know about y'all but if my bench wasn't against a wall, I might put the plane stop diagonally opposite (but I don't have the space. I'm also not sure of the rounded tenons into the top. The top is undeniably gorgeous. Horizontal's got a bench of great envy but I can't get into the full-width tail vise. I'm a hankerin for a conventional tail; else a massive wagon. I've got two Lake Eerie screws sitting in my shop and a stack of kilned fir. I'll be damned if I don't use those screws. I'm relocating my purchased Grizzly top (really nice) to a laundry room to fold my panties. I just feel dirty using a pre-fabbed top. 
.
Scott, I'm quite tempted. Quite. I'd pay 1/2 that for the top and vises; then square out the tenons and drop the lower shelf, beef the undercarriage. Mauricio's bench speaks to me in erotic ways. I don't have the math or the floorspace to execute the angles. Scott's bench is going to be the engineer's Roubo, which speaks to me, too.
.
I've just got to have wood screws. God told me. Smit's tail vise is the closest to exactly what I want. The diameter of my Eerie screws demands that my bench be extraordinarily massive; but I'm extremely limited in length. It's like Lysdexic's genitalia; lacking in length, but impressive in girth. Like one of those short Coor's lights. 
.
Scott, if that bench is period and it was near me, I'd narrow the wallet. I contemplated a period walnut shave horse locally while sipping a coffee, got the go-ahead by the better half, and gone. Mauricio posted those 1st dibs benches that yuppies (with Porsches) use as sideboards. I will throat-punch any yuppie using a period bench for a sideboard.


----------



## bhog

Aww crap.I have been following this thread off n on for awhile,anyway im around post 1148 (Al) you guys were talking about soul patches,flavor savers etc.I have a soul patch -been rocking one for a long time.Why didnt I get the memo?Damn. Im keeping it though… lol.

I had it called a ball pillow last month by a homeowner/friend I did a remodel/addition for over the summer.Hilarious.And kept it.Countered with my ball pillow would have to be a zz top style beard.

Anyway I realize that was so 84 days ago but Im slow and will use this post to get to the top.


----------



## bhog

Well sweet,I was worried that post would be a lil too locker roomish but I see Al brought up Scotts nub,and then threatened a throat punch.

Im kinda in the research phase of a bench build.I will apologize now for any questions I may ask that have already been covered.


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## mochoa

That bench is pretty damn sweet but something about the proportions dont look right. The Feng Shui isnt right. But don't get me wrong, I'd take it.

I need to know more about that parallel guide. Does anyone have the link to the McGuire video handy? I couldnt find it on youtube.

Boatman, so you really see a need for a tool well and the chisel saw rack? do both come in handy? Maybe I need one?

Al, LOL, a throat punch would be deserved. I actually saw this in person. My rich friend in Colombia, we went out to his parents country house (finca), his mom had an old roubo style bench as a console. Looked like it had been used for at least 10yrs, Leg vise and everything. However, the top wasn't thick and the legs were laminated so it wasn't a historical treasure or anything, but it was nice.

By the way the splayed legs dont increase the footprint of my bench, its still 24" wide.

Bhog, you probably have a pair of crocs stashed away somewhere too ;-)


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## bhog

Maur no crocs bud, Docs,thorogoods,red wings etc.Occasionally a converse.


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## Boatman53

Here you go Maur. http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/?p=206


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## mochoa

Thanks Jim, looks pretty cool. It does rack a little before engaging but it seems to work very well.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

If JG made that bench himself, considering everything was by hand in those days, depending on what type of work he was doing, maybe it was all he needed. Why put a lot of time and effort into pretty when it is a utility item?


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## HorizontalMike

Along the lines of what Topo says about the bench being utilitarian, one has to also wonder about the high quality of the branding letters/numbers and how well that part of the bench has held up for over a hundred years. After all that vise must have been frequently used so I would have expected that area to be more banged/scratched up than it is. Just an opinion. I just wonder if the initials and date were NOT on this bench, would it be garnering so much attention?

Just noticed the rounded tenons on the leg/top joint. Anyone know of other examples of rounded tenons on early furniture? Not making a judgement here, but would like to know when that technique came into fashion.


----------



## HorizontalMike

Out of curiosity, I just spent some time trying to find out about the history of rectangle tenons with "rounded" corners. Unfortunately, I am not finding anything, at least not until the advent of floating tenons and those are of recent invention.

Still puzzled here…


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## mochoa

Probably not unheard of that some one would us a brace and bit to make two holes and just chisel out the waste in between. And then instead of squaring the whole, rounding the tenon which is easier.


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## lysdexic

The finish. Commitment. I am afraid of commitment.

I am doing a few test pieces today of some scrap. I have re-read Flexner's chapters on varnish vs oil/varnish vs water based poly. I value Brandon and Andy's advice and giving water based finish a look.

1. 3 parts mineral spirits / 2 parts satin poly / 1 part pure tongue oil----wipe on idiot proof
2. Minwax polycrylic

The difference in color is not that significant but a do prefer the colorless effect on the maple with the water based. However, the cherry benefits from the oil/varnish.

I am considering doing the under carriage with oil/varnish and the top maple slabs in polycrylic. Yet, the seems to unnecessarily complicated. We will see.

Regardless, I am going to press on with the oil/varnish for the under carriage cherry elements.

***feed back welcome


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"press on with the oil/varnish for the under carriage cherry element"

And then

Do the top.

Easy-peasy.


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## Boatman53

I vote for the oil/varnish. It is easier to repair. I have not used the polycrilic much, but wasn't fond fond of it. I generally don't like water based finishes.
Jim


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## waho6o9

+1 for the oil, varnish.


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## lysdexic

Thanks fellas. Done with the under carriage now. Nothing like that first swipe.


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## Boatman53

That is going to look awesome. I love it.
Jim


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## mochoa

Wow, that cherry realy comes to life with finish on it. Its going to be amazing.


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## lysdexic

I have read that cherry is blotchy to stain but it is also blotches with a varnish. It seems to have smoothed out over the past few hours.

I used up my little batch of 3:2:1 on this first coat which was sanded in with 400 grit sandpaper. When I do the maple top I'll leave the Tung oil out.

I tried to use the darker "Appalachian" maple for the more visible bottom stretchers but I ran out and thus had to use a lighter maple for back stretcher. You can see the difference.


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## bhog

Thats beautiful Scott.Nice work my friend.


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## mochoa

Friggin nice!


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## waho6o9

Beautiful work Scott!


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## AnthonyReed

+1 Beautiful


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## Boatman53

Really nice Scott. I see you've got the chain installed. I'll bet the bronze end button blends right in with that cherry. After a comment way back on this thread about the bronze and steel clashing I decided to also do a stainless steel end button for those that are fashion conscious. I even had some engraved. One with my initials and date as an example and inspiration. I'll be posting about these things more fully soon. I'm just waiting on the guy making the sprockets. Everything else is in stock and ready to ship.


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## DanKrager

I wonder how those old Workmates (holding up the newcomer) feel about the whole situation?


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## mochoa

Has anyone ever thought about varnishing/oiling the parts before assembly?


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## lysdexic

Just an FYI:

I needed to chamfer all the dog holes and the parallel guide holes on my bench. I have a cheap countersink from Lowe's for the parallel guide holes but it sucks. Talk about chatter. At the end the holes look more like ten point stars.

I though about a round over bit in the trim router but I still need a good countersink. Then I saw this in the Lee Valley catalogue. It even mentions dog holes. Free shipping and it was a deal.





































Smooth! No chatter. No tear out. No dust, ear plugs or extension cords. So I introduced the new countersink to my ole Fray Spofford brace and I am good to go.



















---Just something to keep in mind for those doing bench builds and it leaves you with a high quality, versatile countersink that works in any sized hole up to 1 1/4".


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## lysdexic

This is the crappy one from Lowe's


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## derekcohen

I have the LV countersink and used it on my bench. It is the only one wide enough for 3/4" holes. It worked a treat - nice clean holes (thanks again Rob), which one will not achieve with a different style countersink. Also, using a countersink in a brace is an excellent idea - I have one permanently set up this way. Nice, controlled work.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## lysdexic

Wow, Derek. I would say that great minds think alike but in my case that's a ridiculous assertion.

I thank Andy for giving me the idea of dedicating the Fray brace for a countersink. Not that it is his idea originally but give credit where it is due.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice, indeed!


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## lysdexic

Went ahead a posted the above as a review.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Added it to my cart.


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## lysdexic

Yeah Smitty, I took advantage of the free shipping to "acquire" a bunch of little things. I have a G&G inspired hall table almost ready for assembly for the past 18 months. I got hung up on the square holes for the ebony/walnut plugs. Don't know why - just stopped in my tracks. Thus I ordered a 3/8" one of these…










I'll let you know how it works.


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## mochoa

I wanted to share some pictures I dug up from my trip to Colombia the Christmas before last. I was at my friend's parent's finca (country/weekend home) and saw this great bench being used as a console behind the sofa. I think his mom bought it directly from the craftsman. 









Leg vise. Notice the parallel guide. I didn't even comprehend what I was looking at back then. It's the rod/friction type. 









Shelf boards nailed in.









The planing stop:









It looks like a French style bench. I wish I know more about the Spanish woodworking traditions. I may need to hit up some of our lumberjocks in Spain to learn more.


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## AnthonyReed

Even with the cone shaped hones they give me the shivers thinking about sharpening them. If they don't pan out you are more than capable enough to make the square holes by hand Scott. I am sure if you tried it that they would be a non-issue for you now.

That is a great bench Mauricio. Is that dead man stationary or adjustable.


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## mochoa

You know I didnt play with it. It doesnt look like it.


----------



## Bertha

Throat punch, Mauricio. This one gets an easy pass b/c there are kids turning the screw. That bench clearly is loving being used again. It's so incredibly beautiful. Check out that friggin plane stop!
.
Thank you so much for posting these pictures; it made my night.
.
Now…
.
Onto Lysdexic, that brought tears to my eyes, as well. Reading the books and grabbing your stones is the hard part. I think it looks gorgeous. You can even see some stripe coming out. Cherry blotch is just more character, if it even occurs. It just keeps getting better. It's my standard now, which is a problem.
.
I don't want to include my mind among the good ones that think alike, but if I can do it with a brace, I'll do it with a brace. If you're ever looking for a vintage bit, check with me before you buy one. I went on a fleabag tear for about a year and I have just about everything.


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## lysdexic

Not worthy of a complete blog entry but I finished the finish on the under carriage

3:2:1 wet sanded with 400 grit 
4 coats of 2:1 mineral spirits to poly with 800 grit scuff sanding
2 coats of johnson paste wax
The back side of the chop was not sanded in anticipation of gluing on the leather.


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## Boatman53

That is fabulous Scott.


----------



## ksSlim

Very nice Scott!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Wow! So friggin' nice.


----------



## derekcohen

Hi Lysdexic

That looks incredibly solid and well made! It is coming along fantastically. I am looking forward to its continuing build.

I am curious how much play you get in the screw, and how much play others get in their metal and wood screws. I have a wood screw and there was sufficient play to affect the work holding (it was not holding evenly at the chop, so more pressure was required). I came up with a simple fix (works with minimal pressure now), and am happy to share it if there is interest. Otherwise will not sidetrack the discussion.

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## lysdexic

Thanks fellas.

Derek, it is a hard for me to say how much play I have as I have yet to fully, fully assemble the bench and put it though it's paces. That said, when I screw and unscrew the chop there is plenty of wobble. It am not sure if that is good or bad. Also, from what little I have used it, I will admit that I am a little disappointed. It does hold as well as my 8"Jorgensen with wooden jaws. I planed out a slight convexity on the chop clamping surface and toed in by adjusting the chain drive. This helped alot but I've not used it since. It has been disassembled for finishing.

I am quite interested in your "fix".


----------



## Brit

Scot - When I get to build mine, I'm going to hire you as a consultant. Looks fantastic.


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## derekcohen

Hi Lysdexic

All vises have a little play/slop in the screw. This is normal. If there was none then the screw would bind.

Play is a double edged sword - play in a leg vise is desirable when clamping out-of-square pieces. However, play also then favours one side of the chop over the other, and greater cranking force is required to keep the piece from tipping.










My leg vise uses a wooden screw and has a little play. How much is acceptable? I was very careful when building the leg vise. Indeed, for those who followed my build, they have seen pictures of the installation (twice - the second when I added the chain adjuster). Everything was square, square, square … and solid. When it was new the chop would clamp down squarely and hold with just a little force. As it wore in, the play seemed to increase a little, and then the chop began to reveal more clamping strength on one side. In my case there seemed to be less holding power on the "outfeed" side of the vise (the left of the vise in the picture below), which may have occurred as a result of planing edges (i.e. that is where the plane ends and greater downforce is created).










There is nothing worse than the board twisting and dropping down as you plane. Damaging to yourself and the edge being planed.

I imagine that the play in a high quality ACME metal screw, such as from LN or BenchCrafted, would have the least play. A wooden screw is less precise. I imagine that others experience the same as I do. I'd like to hear if this affects you to. If you are unhappy with this issue, then there is a simple fix.

The problem is not simply the screw, but also the parallel guide. They work together. The parallel guide must also have a tad leeway to avoid it binding in the leg mortice. Even 1mm of leeway will translate into 1mm of play in the screw, and from there to the chop. The aim is to get - and hold - everything perfectly square, in such a way that the pressure across the chop is equal, and stays that way.

The fix is at the parallel guide. The parallel guide requires a guide to keep it tracking squarely.

My solution was to groove a section of hardwood that the guide could run through, and add in adjustability so that the exact support could be dialled in.

Your set up would look like this in principle, but may vary according to the way your leg vise and parallel guide are designed. (Note that the groove/mortice in mine is not centred - not to worry. In my case this does not matter. I was testing out the idea, but it worked so well that I have left it as is).










Simply slide under (as in my case) the parallel guide. If you cannot do this, just consider make a fence that bolts from both sides.










Adjust for squareness, and you will find that the amount of force to clamp work decreases significantly.

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## mochoa

Scott, it looks spectacular! Not much left to go now. I heard somewhere where someone used double stick carpet tape to attach the leather instead of contact cement. I think I may try that before messy cement. Worth a shot.

Derek, thanks for your advice on the parallel guide. I'll have to digest it and see how I can apply it to my situation. I'm planning on using a 2" wooden screw for the vise as well as the parallel guide. I wonder if the spinning nut on the guide would do the job of keeping things square while clamping pressure is being applied. The guide will be a 2" wooden screw passing through a 2 1/8" whole. I could always place shims between the nut and the leg if fine adjustment is needed.


----------



## WhoMe

Whew… FINALLY got through all 38 pages of this thread. Man, all you guys are awesome. And quite talented too. 
Scott, The bench is looking beautiful. Thanks for the PM with all the info. BUT, mine will be a LEFTY bench….

I do have a couple of questions. Many of the benches are quite long. I have limited space in my garage for a bench (that will have to be mobile too) and in looking at many of the Rubo style benches, there is quite a bit of overhang on the tail vise side. Anyone know what the reasoning for that is? Has anyone seen a minimal amount of overhang where some of the tail vise workings actually are over the leg structure?
Also, there has been a lot of talk/beautiful examples of the leg vises. I know there has to be advantages/disadvantages between the leg vise and say a twin screw style vise as a option. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Thanks and keep up the great thread. One of these days I hope to show my work/progress/bench in this thread.


----------



## Bertha

I just stole a whole bunch of stuff from Derek. Derek, did you put a little dome (convexity) on that parallel guide guide (not sure what to call that) to minimize the surface area contact? I've got two Lake Eerie screws just sitting dormant. I'm embarrassed by that.
.
Lysdexic, I love the contrasting stretchers. I also admire your BSA sticker on your truck's bumper. Strong work putting it on crooked. I know it bugs you every time you look at it However, possibly the kiddo applied it, in which case, you probably smile every time you look at it
.
It looks like the chain is the standard now. First time seeing it with a wooden screw. There may be hope for this World.


----------



## lysdexic

Some random Sunday workbench pics.


----------



## mochoa

Nice! Did you flatten the top by hand?


----------



## lysdexic

The top is not flat yet. I need to finish the gap stop. Then I will put a finish on the bottom and sides of the slabs. Then I'll turn them over a bolt them down one last time. Then, I am going to give flattening by hand a try. Finally, the very top surface will get a coat of finish.


----------



## Boatman53

Hi Scott, I do hope you are proud of yourself. Dang but you raised the bar quite high for a Roubo bench. That is one nice looking bench.


----------



## carguy460

lysdexic - I've read your blog quite a few times but I can't seem to remember…what are the leg dimensions on your bench? I like the beefy legs (that could be taken wrong, don't tell my wife), and I'm trying to get my bench sorted out on paper…I was thinking with a 4" thick top, perhaps a 6"x6" set of legs? Is that close to what you've got going there?


----------



## mochoa

Jason, how long will your bench be?


----------



## carguy460

Around 8 ft or so…I'll be using cheap dimensional lumber for this one as I'm not very skilled and don't want ruin high dollar hardwood!


----------



## mochoa

That will be sweet Jason, you'll probably want legs that are around 6"x6" or at least 6" wide for it to look right proportionaly.


----------



## mochoa

Jason, do you have the wood yet? If you look around I bet you can find a dealer that wil sell you 4×4 and 6×6 SYP. I found one here in atlanta but ended up going another rout.


----------



## mochoa

I called my usual lumber dealer and when they didnt have it they referred me to someone who did. And, it was surprisingly cheap.


----------



## carguy460

I'm woodless at the moment. I haven't had any luck finding SYP up here in NW Missouri. I thought about the 4×4 and 6×6 option, but everything I find is pressure treated, which I don't really want. I was probably going to go the 2×8 and 2×6 route, resawing the 2×8's for the top….am I way off here?


----------



## mochoa

Its the same here. HD & Lowes only sell pressure treated posts. 
The glue ups are definitely an option but make some phone calls first to lumber dealers, if they don't have it ask who does. In my case they knew where to send me. It will save you SO MUCH time if you are able to find it.

Imagine making your top out of 3pieces of wood and your legs just 1 piece. The advantage to gluing up pieces is you can take extra time to make it all straight grained, quarter sawn and rift sawn which looks much better and more stable IMHO.


----------



## lysdexic

Jason my legs ended up being 5 1/2" x 5 3/8".


----------



## carguy460

Thanks for the insight Mauricio - I'll check around and maybe get lucky!

Thanks lysdexic…I figured it was in the 5-6" arena. Your bench looks very well proportioned to my eye.


----------



## mochoa

Aint nothing wrong with Scotts bench!

I love workbench talk, makes me smile every time I see the notification that there is a comment on this thread. ;-)


----------



## carguy460

Mauricio - what are the leg dimensions on your splayed leg bench?


----------



## mochoa

Mine are about 5.5" x 3.5" but my bench is 6' long. Works for me, I have a 8' osb and 2×4 bench now and 2' of it is always covered with crap that doesn't have a spot. So effectively its only 6' and it works.


----------



## lysdexic

You know if I were to make a new bench, say for a friend, I would strongly advise them to go with 6×6 SYP posts. OMG, that would simplify things. You would definitely need help during the milling process though.


----------



## mochoa

I'm thinking an 8/4 Leg vise chop looks a little on the skinny side. I'm thinking of laminating 2 8/4 walnut boards. Maby just go to 3" thick?


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio, I consider my leg vise absurdly thick and I think it is 8/4". I check this evening. It is a laminate however.


----------



## lysdexic

Well, I take that back. I think I starte3d with 2 6/4 boards 9" wide. By the time they were milled and laminated it was 10/4 thick.


----------



## mochoa

I like the way yours looks, also the shapping makes it look lighter.

I like the look of some of these antique chops.


----------



## bhog

Guys ,you should be able to go to your local lumberyard (where a reputable builder would go) and get SYP.I could not imagine building anything decent with the lumber I have seen at my local lowes.


----------



## mochoa

well that last one is a childs bench so not the best example.


----------



## mochoa

This is what I found in Atlanta:

randall brothers 888-711-7971
4"x6"x15' syp $16.52
6"x6"x8' $14.44

I never went to check it out in person but those prices are dirt cheap!


----------



## Boatman53

For what it is worth the legs on my little bench are 3×5". The chop is 5" wide and a full 2" thick. Just another consideration a thicker chop will use up some screw length, so if the screw is a short one like the new LN or it looks like the BenchCrafted is pretty short too, it is that much less usable clamping distance. It may not matter for some people's work but it was an important consideration to me.


----------



## mochoa

Good point Jim, I should have a pretty long screw since I'm making my own (fingers crossed).... Worked on a new thread cutting jig last night.

Also that bevel at the top becomes more important for sawing small pieces and the whole thing sticks out further which kind of gets in the way when planning.

By the way how DO you spell Planning, the actual using of a hand plane? Is it planing, planning, planeing? Spell checker doesnt now what I'm trying to say!


----------



## Brit

One 'n'


----------



## mochoa

One 'n' no e? Thanks! I'll add it to my dictionary.


----------



## lysdexic

planing


----------



## lysdexic

Can we talk plane stops?

As I was working on my gap stop I realized I need to come up with a strategy for a plane stop. At 8 feet it obvious exceeded my capacity. I ended up clamping a board to the end but the metal part of the clamp stuck up above the work piece - not good.

Jim, if I remember correctly, don't you have a slotted plane stop bolted to the end grain?

Tolpin put one of these on his bench.


----------



## AnthonyReed

^ that is a bench hook for sawing, no?


----------



## mochoa

Yeah thats for sawing. Jim has a couple of rectangular once morticed into the top. The advantage is that you can hold any thickness of board. I like the one Jim Toplin makes in the New Traditional Woodworker that is a thin board with a cleat that clamps in the vise. The only problem will be if you have a thinner board to plane.

I saved the link to Boatman's bench pics. Check them out. 
http://s1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/workbench/?action=view&current=6b66922b.jpg


----------



## Boatman53

Thanks Mauricio, you beat me to them. Actually I transferred one photo, went back for another and my post disappeared. It is nice having the stops set in from the end of the bench so the vise does not get in the way. If the planing stop was at the end of the bench and the board was say two feet long the vise would force me to stand further away from the bench/work. I also have a row of dog holes at the back edge of the solid top so I can capture a board for diagonal planing.


----------



## lysdexic

Thats right Tony. It is for sawing - I forgot. Yet I was thinking along those lines for a planing stop but I doubt its durability.

The appliance that you clamp in to the vise sacrificies a lot of real estate. Plus it is just another thing to store.

Jim, your solution is wonderful but I would imagine a challenge to retrofit.



















I guess I am looking for a solution for planing long boards in the 6 foot range.


----------



## Boatman53

One nice thing about these big rectangular stops is they don't rotate, but you could drill for some round bench dogs. I thought about doing that, but then I realized I could just leave a gap in top laminate glue up so no mortising was needed. They just needed about a 1/64" pared off to bring them flush to the upper strecher.


----------



## mochoa

Al, this is for you, Lake Eerie Wagon Vise was just revealed at WIA. Works with the screw you have already.http://www.popularwoodworking.com/workbenches/schwarz-workbenches/lake-erie-wagon-vise-at-wia


----------



## DanKrager

I like the notion of a wagon vise, maybe because of my farm background. I've never used one and do not know how its function compares to others in use, but they look slick. Mauricio, I drooled on that link picture. Now I have to clean the desk. Nice. Probably a very nice price too. Not ready to price it yet, but I might set aside some green lumber to cure for it… we might be ready at the same time!
Dan


----------



## lysdexic

Random, bench build,









painful photo from the weekend. Dammit! How much are those helical planer blades?


----------



## lysdexic

My Green&Green inspired screw removal.


----------



## Boatman53

I feel your pain Scott.


----------



## mochoa

That sucks! Where did you get that wood? Thats not the same stuff you bought from your lumber dealer is it?


----------



## AnthonyReed

Uhhgg.


----------



## lysdexic

Completely my fault. The day prior I was struggling to hold these big long pieces on the bench for planing. Hence my plane stop question yesterday. Well, to improvise I tried to put a few decking screws on the side, below the surface and try clamping to the screws. That didn't work and one of the screws broke off. I thought to myself "I got to get that out of there."

"Honey, the kids and I are waiting for you in the car! Come on. We are going to be late."

Next day. I completely forgot about the broken screw. [email protected]#K.


----------



## Doss

Ouch. Did you try drilling it out or using an extractor or was it just easier to chisel the entire section out?


----------



## Bertha

Did it kill your planer? If you did that with a shelix, my condolences are with you. Check Global tools. 
.
Those adjustable bench stops might be the coolest thing I've seen in a long time.


----------



## Bertha

I'm still so pumped about that Lake Eerie wagon/tail. I can't tell if they work with the big screws. They're not out yet, nor pre-order.


----------



## lysdexic

Doss, it was easier to just chisel out. That particular part of the end up being waste anyway.

Al, no I don't think I killed my planer. Since we like to remove milling marks with a hand plane anyway a longitudinal ridge worries us not. It still gets me to a uniform thickness. However, I may start looking into the Shelix replacements.


----------



## Bertha

Do you have the Dewalt or something more robust? Last time I checked, they were around $400 or so. Let me check something. Yeah. After research, I decided the Global Journal Heads were my preference. 
.
http://globaltooling.bizhosting.com/products/heads-journal/planer-journal-heads.html
.
I hit a cut nail in my chestnut with a brand new set of 735 blades. Do your blades flip? Could buy you some time.


----------



## lysdexic

I also have the DeW 735 but I haven't really looked into it yet.


----------



## mochoa

I finally started getting some acceptable results last night. Still a little chipping but not bad. 









I took a different approach and made this one with no hub, I'll now turn one and put it on. This will be my leg vise screw. I need to make one more for the parallel guide.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Much cleaner than your earlier attempts. Nice job Mauricio. Congrats man.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Tony! I'll be turning the reject into mallets and put them on the Mallet thread!


----------



## BrandonW

Looking great, M. I think you'll be quite happy with that for your bench.


----------



## lysdexic

That looks awesome Mauricio.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Brandon & Scotty! Cant wait to tap the leg and see how it fits.


----------



## Brit

Have you tapped a piece of scrap first to see how it fits?


----------



## mochoa

Well I could, but the guide that cuts the threads is basically the same nut that I would cut into the leg. It fits a little lose in that now but the advantage of having the screw made first is that I can then custom cut the nut/leg to fit the screw as lose or as tight as I want.


----------



## waho6o9

Amazing work Mauricio!


----------



## Brit

Well what are you waiting for then?


----------



## mochoa

Thanks guys, I'm actually a little more excited about making a wooden screw than I am about the workbench. The screw has been the most difficult thing about the whole build.

Dont get me wrong, I cant wait to have this bench finished. Being done with the screw will get me much closer.


----------



## mochoa

Andy, I just have to make and attach the hub for this screw, then I'll tap it. ;-)


----------



## Bertha

Mauricio, you're becoming a master. It's gorgeous.


----------



## mochoa

I wouldn't go that far Al but thanks! I only showed the good parts in that pic. ;-)

I'm about to go out to the shop to finish tapping the benchleg. I'm about half way through.


----------



## waho6o9

Master Mauricio

no doubt about it, good call Al


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio,

Out of curiosity, how many attempts did it take to get that result?


----------



## mbs

Here is a bench I made out of metal and hardwood. I like it because it's extremely rigid andthe top of the storage cabinet below the work surface holds many often-used tools. Here is the link to the pics


----------



## lysdexic

I'd love to have that storage capacity. How tall is the bench? It looks like a great power tool bench.

mbs's bench….........


----------



## lysdexic

I love newegg and have done a lot of business with them. Say Jenni, do they stock Stanley #112 scraper planes?


----------



## mochoa

I tapped the leg of my bench, the screw doesnt fit, I'm crushed…. I have some thinking to do….


----------



## mochoa

mbs, thats a really nice bench, the black steel and wood look great together.


----------



## Boatman53

Maurico, did I read that right the screw doesn't fit the treads you tapped in the leg? Say it isn't so! Is the hole too small? You can most likely fix that. What really happened. Fill in some details please.
Jim


----------



## lysdexic

Yeh Maur, what happened? Too big, too small, wrong thread pitch?


----------



## Bertha

+1 on NewEgg and I love the storage on that bench. It's bigger than my shop, though. One can dream.


----------



## mochoa

Someone please give me one of those quotes about success being built on a mountain of failures….

I kept tapping the threads deeper and deeper hoping it would fit but it wasn't the diameter of the whole, it was the thread pitch, its off a little, and since the leg is pretty thick there are a lot of teeth that engage the nut so it has to be right on. The screw makes it through the leg but then gets stuck. I have no idea why this is happening…

There is a ray of hope though. One of the very first practice screws I made from fire wood fits perfectly. I will get another blank ready and use the very first jig I made.

I'll do a blog with the details. Thanks for the support guys, still a little bummed.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Maur, no inspiration here, just hard reality. You can't quit now, my friend… You're almost finished, and it is the finish that lasts forever. Get it right, you can do it. Good luck, I'm rooting for you!


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Smitty, there is no way I'm quiting, couldnt live with myself…


----------



## mochoa

mbs, how did you make that bench? Did you weld the parts together? I really like it.


----------



## Bertha

^It looks like some serious angle iron. A guy made a wheeled stand for my bandsaw. I don't know which is heavier. He was 6'6" and I am not. I had to get rid of it, else I'd have to stand on a stool. I didn't want my tall friends seeing that.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

This should solve all the vise problems ;-)


----------



## mochoa

Thanks for that link Tomamax, Thats pretty cool, if it wasn't for the really large hole you have to drill in your bench I'd go try it out.

I don't care what they say about Schwarz, he introduces you to some pretty cool little nuggets of information on old school woodworking.


----------



## Boatman53

So I was reading the latest issue of WoodenBoat magazine and there was an article about gondolas. They are fascinating in their own right but one of the photos shows a man carving a "forcole" that is the arm that holds the oar and is the fulcrum that they push against. I have been intrigued by them for years but never thought about how the were made. Check out this vise.
Dang photobucket is not loading my album so fall back to YouTube.


----------



## mochoa

Al, does Lake Eerie recommend any particular finish on their wooden screws? I'm thinking just some BLO and Wax.


----------



## mochoa

Wow, fascinating video Jim, that screw looks like its about 3". The only power tool I saw in there was a jointer and a band saw.


----------



## Boatman53

Yea I thought of you Mauricio, the photo I wanted to show was neat in that the end of the screw was turned like a finial, the threads didn't just end. Actually if you google "forcola" and click on images you will find what I wanted to share. That is the great thing about these forums (this one in particular) so many like minded people with different backgrounds and resources accessing areas other people might not go. I've also got a lot of those old gems like on the Schwarts blog. Too bad the vise thread I tried to start lost steam. I'll pull a couple out later. One is from 1929 I believe and they are complaining about the pin in the leg vise and how to get around it. Some things never change.


----------



## Boatman53

Here is one of the photos. I guess when you put all the mass of a bench into the vise that is all you need. I wonder how far the main post goes into the floor?


----------



## Boatman53

Here is the one I was thinking about.


----------



## mochoa

Great pic but I can't see the finial on my phone. Ill look closer at home.
I was all about that clamping thread you started, I'm sad it didn't catch on, let's try to revive it if you have more stuff to share. I like all that McGuiver shiit.


----------



## Bertha

Freestanding wooden-screwed leg vise. Phenomenal!
Maur, I'm not sure, as my Eeries are gathering dust.


----------



## Bertha

Those videos are incredible, Jim. That guy's really working the smoother in the first one. I think that's a Butcher plane, too. 
.
Check out the skew on that stroke.


----------



## mochoa

I like that giant wing nut on the screw, I see what you mean about the little dome on the end of the screw, looks nice, I'll have to do that on my next one, I already removed the spur marks form my screw so I can't put it back on the lathe.

I googled Focola, amazing stuff, I love how it's a functional work of art. I've been to Venice, before I was a woodworker, wish I would have paid more attention.


----------



## Bertha

Now I need one of those and I don't own a boat. I just love seeing woodbodies at work. I love that he chose those. Much respect.


----------



## lysdexic

Random 1 AM, because I have an addiction pictures


----------



## WhoMe

For those of you that have made benches out of Beech, how easy is it to work? I know that several companies make workbenches out of beech so I know it is a good wood to use. Where I live, I found a wood dealer that sells 8/4 s2s european beech for not much over #2 a bf where as hard maple is running almost $5 a bf for the same 8/4 s2s. So it would be way more affordable than maple for a bench top.

Also, I asked this question earlier but didn't see any replies. On the leg vise versus a twin screw vise in a similar location, can someone fill me in on the advantages/disadvantages of each. I like the idea of a twin screw vise but the leg vise looks more versatile in both capacity and usability.

Thanks.


----------



## Boatman53

The bench that I just finished is only a tiny bit over 5' long. I chose the leg vise for versatility and the fact that on a short bench a twin screw vise would be in the way when just standing and working at the bench. A Moxon vise could be made for those dovetailing jobs. Of the metal twin screw options out there I think the Lie-Nielsen one is the best made. If you choose the leg vise and are just joining us I've got a chain adjuster for the leg vise to eliminate the pin in the parallel beam, and I am now finally taking orders with payment be check or paypal. 
Beech is of course a wonderful bench materiel. It is a long time since I've used any but I recollect it being very much like maple in workability.


----------



## WhoMe

Boatman, thank you for your insight. When I start making my bench I have a feeling it will be a maximum of 6 ft but probably closer to 5 feet long due to space restrictions in my garage. Gotta share it with a car/ lawn tools and other stuff. I will try for the 6 ft length goal though as I figure a bench that is too long is better than one too short.

I never thought about how much space the twin screw vise takes up. I also read that with the leg vise there seems to be more depth capacity, like about double (or more) the space from the top of the bench to the top of the clamping screw.

I have been following this thread since about page 3 or so and have read from the beginning. I also went over to Scotts blog and studied his conversion to your chain drive. Hopefully, you will still be making those drives when I get to my bench. They sure look like they work really well.

Thanks on the Beech too. That is kind of what I figured regarding workability. Since it is a hard fine grained wood, and about 50-60% of the cost of Maple for me, it will most likely be my wood of choice.


----------



## mochoa

Scott Congrats at going at it with hand planes. It wasn't that bad was it? I thought it as fun, and a nice little workout.

Whome, Beech would make a great workbench, BrandonW's his made of beech check his out . European Beech cheaper than Red Oak hear in Georgia which I don't get.

As far as twin screws I second Jim's opinion. Twin screws come in great for dovetails but on a bench set at a low height for planing sawing on that thing would be tough on the back. I plan on making a bench top bench one day with a twin screw for joinery and carving.


----------



## mochoa

Brandon's Beach Bench. 
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/59460


----------



## Mosquito

I too intend to have bench top bench for joinery once I get a bench going.

Speaking of bench… posted it on hand planes, but will repeat here…
I used a new "bench" this weekend to get some planing done…


----------



## mochoa

Mos, hahaha, that will work, looks stable and gets the edge your working up to a good hight. So that slab is the future workbench right? 
Its going to be sweet. Do you have any plans drawn up yet?


----------



## Mosquito

Yes indeed. Last night I [stayed up entirely too late and] drew up a design in SketchUp. I plan on adding a wider (vertical) board to the front so I have a taller front face. Then I think I'm going to use that piece of hard maple 2×4 (1.5×3.5) that I have in my closet still ($20, 8.5' long, couldn't say no) as the end caps and back piece for the tool well. Based on the design, I should have enough to do it, as long as I don't botch a cut too bad


----------



## mochoa

There is a bench that your description reminds me of. Let me see if I can find it.


----------



## mochoa

Check page 5. Thats a great PDF by the way. A lot of good stuff in there. 
Splayed legs, Tool Well, Wide front apron. 
http://woodtools.nov.ru/books/make_woodwork_tools/make_woodwork_tools.pdf


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, that's pretty close… Except a thicker top piece, and I was going to put the wider board in front of the top instead of under it to give me a little more bench top width. I'd be at around 5.5" tall in the front, and then about 2.75" thick top, and 10.5" width. It'll be about 51" long all said and done (48" long top plus 2×1.5" boards on both ends)

The part I'm not 100% on yet is where to place the legs. I was thinking about putting the left legs 4.5" from the left, and the right legs 13.5" from the right, to have room for a wagon vise of sorts if I want, but I'm not sure if that's the route I'll go or not.


----------



## lysdexic

Chris, I am right there with you. Last night I took the wife and the family out to dinner for her birthday. About 10 PM i thought that I would play around with a raking light and a straight edge just to see if a could mark the high spots on the bench top.

Of course, I had to tune up the winding sticks to check for twist.

Well, I completely got caught up the process. I finally looked at the clock and it was 1 AM. I had completely flattened the top, re chamfered the edges, re countersunk the dog holes, chamfered the squared dog holes and tool holder with a chisel and rasp.

Mauricio, you are right. I was soaked with sweat and I thoroughly enjoyed it. (Now that doesn't sound right)


----------



## mochoa

Schwarz has a blog somewhere on those proportions and where to place the legs. He had to do a lot of modifications to his Roubo design when he went to Germany because everyone had small shops.

Found it, here you go:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/workbenches/schwarz-workbenches/workbenches-balancing-the-base-and-top


----------



## AnthonyReed

Excellent pdf, thank you Mauricio.


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio,

I am glad I flattened the top with handplanes as well. As some one who started woodworking using hand tools, as opposed to someone who is accomplished using machines and making the transition, I feel much more confident getting where I want to go with a #7 compared to a router jig.

In a way it is all I really know.

Talk about lucky…..


----------



## lysdexic

Chris, that is a beautiful slab of wood you got there. I look forward to seeing what you come up with for your bench.


----------



## mochoa

Thats pretty cool Scott. I feel the same, although I started with machines, hand tools helped me compensate for my crappy power tools. But once you learn how to do things by hand, you start to see experts do a lot of crazy complicated things to make power tools do the same thing hand tools can do. Make a jig to make a cut on the TS or router instead of just marking it out and sawing to the line.

I think that router jig for flattening a bench top is an example of that. If you spend a lot of time and attention making your top glue ups as good as possible, flattening it with a plane is actually enjoyable.

And one of my favorite byproduct of that approach is, there is no jig to store! I hate having all those odd shaped things lying around, so hard to store…


----------



## lysdexic

+1 on the jig storage. Great point.


----------



## mochoa

Ha, I just saw the picture you posted. You cant get much more precise than that!


----------



## RGtools

Mauricio, you have described one of my favorite reasons for my love of handtools. Flattening a benchtop by hand does not take that long, especially on repeat flattenings. No jigs to make/store; just shavings on the floor and work to be done.


----------



## WhoMe

Wait… wait… how do we know that Scotty didn't fudge that measurement. We don't see the bottom of that caliper…..
JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As awesome as that bench is, you probably have that thing flattened to .00000000000000000001" across the whole length.
I also like the nice even chamfer on that edge too.

Mauricio, that is a really cool link to that old book. It was fun to browse through. Probably some really good info on making several of the tools in that book.


----------



## Brit

Hang on a minute Mauricio, isn't Scott .001" over 4"? I know he tried to get the reflection of the dog hole in the vernier display in the hope that we wouldn't notice, but, well, I did! )


----------



## AnthonyReed

Andy might be one of the very few to be within his rights to bust on Scott's work …

+1 for the chamfer. My attempts with them to date are horrid; never even. And they look like they would be so simple…


----------



## Brit

Tony - I'm only jealous. Scott's bench is hoss.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Understood Andy and i couldn't agree with you more.


----------



## BrandonW

Scott's bench is nice, I guess, if you're into that sort of thing. You know, stuff that's skillfully built and aesthetically pleasing.


----------



## lysdexic

Tsup Brandon? Where you been? Pondering how the essence of quality fits in the universe?


----------



## mochoa

Brandon is in remission from his plane addiction so he is staying away from the Handplane thread… Nah, just playing, Brandon has your wife had that baby yet?


----------



## lysdexic

"Brandon is in remission from his plane addiction"

I hear the incidence of re-occurrence is high. Prognosis - excellent.


----------



## BrandonW

Haha. Yes, we've had our baby, so life has been crazy. Little Rowan was born a month ago. I've still be keeping up with the thread, but haven't commented much.

Mauricio, with respect to my plane addictions, I did just buy a Stanley 2C at a yard sale for $5--it's missing a knob and a lever cap, but all else is there and in good condition. Hey, anyone got a knob or a lever cap for a #2?


----------



## SamuelP

Brandon W - Have Don W make you a knob. I just had him make me a set of tote and knob from blood wood for a #2 that I have. It turned out fantastic. Once I finish the cleaning I will post pictures. I also need a #2 lever-cap but I do not want to spend $50 for one. In the mean time I may just grind down a #3 lever-cap so I can at least use it.

Congrats on the new born! We just had our second little girl in August.


----------



## mochoa

Congrats Brandon! How are you guys sleeping at night? ;-) That part is pretty rough.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Congratulations Brandon.


----------



## waho6o9

Congratulations Brandon! Good news.


----------



## BrandonW

Thanks guys! Here's a little photo.










Sam, I thought about using a #3 lever cap since I read it on Blood and Gore, but alas I'm all out of plane parts.


----------



## mochoa

hahaha, great pic Brandon, and he already has great taste in planes!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Brandon, that's excellent! He's doing well to spot quality, even if it is two-tone (and I don't mean Tommy).


----------



## SamuelP

brandon - Get that kid a #1.


----------



## Bertha

But do you REALLY know it's 4", ScottyB, yo? That's friggin hilarious. Good luck nailing that powertool guys
.
Scott, did you plane that section for the photo-op or did you do that for the whole top. If it's the latter, I know a good shrink.


----------



## Bertha

I figured this the best place to advertise this.
.
For sale from the benefactor.
.
Gerstner Legacy 100 anniversary edition chest. All papers. All cherry. *$2100 shipped. *
.








.
Pictures by request available.
.
PM if serious.


----------



## WhoMe

Hey guys, if you really want to get jealous of Scott and his bench, go over to his bench blog. This guy measured along the full length with that caliper. 
Scott, I have to say that you have reached rarified air with those measurements. I think the closest I will ever come is to go up in a plane and try to breath that air of yours. Awesome job.

Brandon, I hate you guys that pick up these finds like that 2C. I need to move out of Southern California to better my chances 1000 fold…. Congrats on the son and the find.


----------



## lysdexic

Again fellas, I did not plane the top to 4". I was completely done flattening and just before I turned out the lights I thought "Huh, I wonder how thick this thing ended up."

Actually, now that i have a finish on the top, it looks pretty nasty. I have plane tracks everywhere and plenty of tear out. But I just called it done. I thought about taken a smoother to it but concluded that I dont want the top smooth. This thing has got to get done.


----------



## Bertha

*plane tracks everywhere*
.
Keep em, bro.


----------



## mochoa

Leave the plane tracks as long as its flat, one day if you get bored take a smoother to it. I kind of like tool marks anyway.

Al, did anybody buy that tool chest? Too rich for me right now but I'd like to have something like that one day.

Al, also I think I may have thrown this idea out there for you but just in case here are a couple of pics that may work for your end vise.

















I know you like the traditional shoulder vise, but maybe it will work for someone else.


----------



## jap

Check out veritas's new bench dogs http://www.leevalley.com/en/gifts/page.aspx?p=70156&cat=,54&ap=1


----------



## lysdexic

That gives new meaning to the phrase "prairie dogging"


----------



## jap

lol, yes


----------



## WhoMe

+1 on the plane tracks. Keep them. Now you don't have to worry about your first tool mark. they are already there. Consider the top broken in.


----------



## skeemer

I'm getting close to complete with a storage/bench piece for the basement that I will use in the winter for glue ups and finishing since my shop doesn't have heat. What do you guys typically finish a work bench with? My wife would like a light stain on the piece, like a Cherry or Early American Minwax color. On top of the stain, what would be a good finish for light durability? The top is maple and the legs/aprons/shelves are pine and douglas fir.


----------



## Bertha

Lol Prarie Dog. 
.
Mauricio, that's the best idea I've see yet. Where'd you find that? You could probably get a hybrid tail & wagon out of it.


----------



## bandit571

Moving things to a new work "area". Back porch no longer the option, since I have moved to another County. 17 miles to the Pole Barn Woodshop, as well. So…..the new place has a cellar, not all that big. and I'll be sharing it with the laundry Room.

Plan: For right now, move the English Planing Bench down there, from the Pole Barn shop.

Plan #2: Will get some 2x stock, and build a "bench" for the Benchtop tools. May have a bottom shelf or two for storage. Length will be at least 8' long. It will be for storage, and running the benchtop tools on, as well a place to use a Machinist's Vise. Lathe will get it's own stand. It hasn't had one of it's own it over 20 years…

2×6s vs 2×12s for this top? Legs will be built-up 2×4s. Shelving will be?????


----------



## johnstoneb

Maurico. just saw your post The birch does a pretty fair job as a work bench. It is a little soft I think . You don't have to worry about putting dents in projects. I am going to make one out of hard maple some day. You can't have to many tools and benches.

I stained it with some stain I had if I did it again I would leave it natural. It was awfully pale and paper birch doesn't have a lot of contrast in the grain.


----------



## Bertha

Bandit, I think you might actually enjoy what's in store for you. I really like a cozy shop, like RVs, tents, etc. It goes back to liking forts as a kid, I think. You've got such a collection of handtools that you can pick your favorites and really enjoy the work in a small setting. We all want bigger shops, but I've come to really enjoy my tiny shop for it's tiny-ness. 
.
Bruce, I considered Birch but I've been stockpiling fir. I'm not really in love with maple. In a perfect world, my dream bench would be of ridiculously massive walnut. My heart does a weird thing when I see walnut.


----------



## lysdexic

Does walnut make your cords vibrate? Still, I am sure that are quite used to working with tiny-ness.


----------



## bandit571

Maybe I could talk to the Pole barn Owner about some of this wood???









solid white oak, bandsawn by a friend of his, and some of it is at least 4" thick, by over 20" wide!!!!

Time to start talking to the guy?


> ? Then I can warm up the old Frankenfleiger Auf 5


?









Oh well, might as well go get some old Pine 2xs…


----------



## lysdexic

I do appreciate your comment about a small shop. Mine takes one bay of a three car garage. Still, I spend 90% of my time on a 2'x3' antifatigue mat.


----------



## WhoMe

Skeemer, I think the finish people put on their benches was mentioned earlier in this thread. Basically, the best finish is a oil based penetrating finish like a Tung oil or a boiled linseed oil blend. The idea behind it is that if you need to repair or refinish the bench, the oil can be wiped on after a light sanding or scraping. The consensus is NOT to use any sealing finish like a polyurethane, varnish and the likes. It chips, is hard to repair and I have also seen where there are complaints that it is too smooth and your work does not sty on the bench well. 
As for a stain, that is totally up to you.

I don't like walnuts, or pecans, they have a yucky taste. Oh, wait, you are talking about walnut wood. Never tasted that stuff but it is sure pretty….


----------



## Bertha

Does walnut make your cords vibrate? Still, I am sure that are quite used to working with tiny-ness.
.
Lol, I almost used that expression! I was saving it for tomorrow. 
.
"Tiny is fine at the dentate line" is what I always say, but you know that. I really do like a small shop. All the shops I really admire, spend time analyzing the picture, are tiny shops loaded with old tools and personal trinkets. Once you graduate from a garage to a shed even, it'll take on a whole different appeal. I think the effort of walking out to it is something. Unlocking the door, turning on the lights, and surveying your dominion; thing of beauty. 
.
I talk about building a big barn shop one day, but I seem to be getting smaller rather than bigger. When you're skinny, your junk looks bigger, but you know that.


----------



## mochoa

Lake Erie Toolworks - Proudly Announces That Our New Wagon & Shoulder Vise Screw Kits Are Now Available For Sale!
http://www.lakeerietoolworks.com/


----------



## lysdexic




----------



## AnthonyReed

I sense a conniption coming…


----------



## dbray45

Al - what you say about a small shop is valid to a point. My shop is so cramped I cannot get around, that is an issue. A 2 car garage would be real nice and allow enough space to work with a 4×8 piece of plywood safely. At this point, anything over 2'x4' ply gets dangerous. Keeping the tools for small work in a tighter circle makes a lot of sense.


----------



## lysdexic

Some random, blurry, bench build, Friday morning pics…..


----------



## Boatman53

Looks like a small army of dogs you've got going there. I don't think you will run out any time soon. Thank you for doing all of your posting, I have enjoyed following your build and participating in small ways.
Jim


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, my. ScottyBYo is making 14 bench dogs… Whatever shall he do if the need arises for 15? 

You're precision is awesome, man. Very impressed, as usual, with the way you work.


----------



## mochoa

Who let the dogs out!


----------



## carguy460

I fear I have a problem, perhaps yall can help me out with it…I'm being given some true 2×6 lumber from a garage demolish…I want to use it to build my workbench. The problem is that they are 2×6's…I was shooting for about 4" thickness for my benchtop - that means I would need to rip 2" or so. It seems extremely wasteful to do that because I have no clue what I would to with the 2" off cuts.

Anyone see any potential problems with a 6" thick benchtop? I think it might look awesome and be sturdy as all heck, but how would my holdfasts handle it?


----------



## mochoa

Jason, you could laminate them horizontally instead of vertically for a 4" top, the flat sawn faces would be the top..


----------



## carguy460

Ah, good idea mauricio…I don't really know why I didn't think of that…


----------



## lysdexic

Dang Maur. Ain't you clever.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jason - rip the 2" and build the 4" top you seek. The excess can be used for shelf cleats below, or could even be laminated to made the chop, deadman, crochet, etc. etc.

That said, I don't think the hold fasts will care about the 6" top. Especially if you get the Veritas variety. Expensive, but worth every penny IMO. Good luck!


----------



## lysdexic

Stickers!


----------



## mochoa

Aaawwww Yeeeeaaaahhhhh…..


----------



## lysdexic

Thanks Mauricio. Thanks.


----------



## AnthonyReed




----------



## lysdexic

I will write my final blog entry this weekend. My wife states that in order to celebrate, I get to take the family out to dinner. Huh?


----------



## AnthonyReed

So you got that going for ya ….


----------



## Boatman53

You going to a French restaurant in honor of Roubo!


----------



## waho6o9

Of course,

Jacque in zee box


----------



## BrandonW

Scott, do the stickers signify the completion of the bench?


----------



## lysdexic

Hello, Brandon. Yes sir, I told myself that putting on those 2 little stickers would be my very last step. I stuck with it (excuse the pun).


----------



## Boatman53

Scott, what are you going to do with all your free time? 
Jim


----------



## lysdexic

Jim, the list is long. But, true story, my 7 yo daughter mention earlier tis week that she was excited for me to finish the bench because she looked forward to spending time with her daddy. Ugh. Never enough time.


----------



## Boatman53

Enjoy every minute if them. They get their own life before you know it. I've got a 24 and a 14 year old.
Jim


----------



## BrandonW

Scott, I probably missed one of your blogs that explains the holes in your dead-man.I just noticed that the holes on the right seem larger, to fit the Stanley 203 bracket I presume? And the holes on the left for pegs or holdfasts? Am I right?


----------



## lysdexic

Brandon, you are right but I've not written the blog yet.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ah, the #203 makes an appearance!!!


----------



## SamuelP

I know this has been covered but…

What finishes have you used and how have they held up?

I am thinking danish oil, or BLO.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

ScottyBYo, you need this under one corner of your bench? Picked it up today…


----------



## Bertha

Stickers! It's like champagne on the bow. 
.
*Anyone see any potential problems with a 6" thick benchtop*
.
I certainly don't. I've been made fun of over my penchant for thick tops. Scotty has a penchant for thick cops. I bought a thin (2 1/2") maple benchtop that I ended up not using out of embarrassment. Scotty could better comment on the dog issues for a 6" top. I don't imagine an issue but I didn't just make an army of gorgeous ones like Scotty did. I'm making mine 4" just because of the resources in this thread; going with fir due to supply issues.


----------



## BrandonW

Al, just curious if you had plans for those pre-made bench tops.


----------



## Mosquito

I thought there was something about hold fasts and thick tops…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I use Watco's. very happy with it. Looks good, and I re-apply each year (or more) without build-up.


----------



## lysdexic

*Mos*, you are correct. Someone, I think the Schwarzy, did a comparison test on different hold-fast and notes that some struggled to clinch a firm hold a 4" and above. Thus, to avoid any issue I counter sunk the bottom of the holes with an 1' wide and 1" deep. THis way my hold-fast efffectively "see" a 3" top. You could do the same with a 6" top.

*Smitty*, I am on the look for one of those! There was a "tobacco" barrel at that insane auction that I went too about a year ago. I blinked an eye and it was gone. Been looking ever since.

*Sam*, I have used a wipe on poly varnish. However, if and when I re-flatten my top, I may apply Watco to just the exposed top.

*Al*, fir will make a fine bench.


----------



## lysdexic

The Mystery of Holdfasts - by Robert Lang

A Battle of Holdfasts


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Scotty - this one's yours if we ever get near the same locale.


----------



## lysdexic

I just turned down your street. Are you on the right or the left?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Is this you??


----------



## lysdexic

LOL. Literally.


----------



## Bertha

No, that's me, Smit.
.
Thanks for the vote of approval on the fir. It looks like it will work. I'm intimidated by the tail/wagon, but b/w Smit's and Maur's, I think it can be done.
.
Brandon, I think I'm either going to use a portion (at least) of them for a cutting area when I get my new kitchen countertops (going concrete). I might also make some bathroom vanity tops. I live in a log home, so I think I could get away with it. I'd love an above-the-counter sink that looks like a galvanized bucket. I haven't found one but how cool would that be? A little whiskey barrel would work, as well.


----------



## RGtools

I personally like softwoods for bench surfaces. I could be fooling myself but I think they are a tad more grippy.


----------



## Bertha

RG, I don't have a lot of experience with fir. I've got a ridiculous stack of it now, enough for 2 benches. I'm expecting to burn through a ton of it screwing up. I'm using maple screws and nuts, so I hope they don't move discordantly. I'm not a sketchup/CAD guy, so I plan to make the tail/wagon a few times (being a realist). I think ScottyByo has convinced me to man up and square dog the top. I might even tooth my top and just be done with worrying about the surface. I've been using a 3×2 foot bench made of pine stairs for many years now. Any improvement will be like heaven. I've posted over 12,000 times in a woodworking forum and I don't own a bench, lol. Total fraud.
.
Although I love him like a brother, ScottyB has made it difficult for me to joint the first board. His bench is so friggin precise that I'm concerned about my OCD. I've been trying to make more rustic pieces to get me over it. I see some lint while typing this and I'm considering breaking out the Dyson. I've got it pretty bad.


----------



## Mosquito

*I've been using a 3×2 foot bench made of pine stairs for many years now. Any improvement will be like heaven. I've posted over 12,000 times in a woodworking forum and I don't own a bench, lol. Total fraud.*

eh hem….


----------



## Bertha

Sorry, Mos A better man wouldn't complain. Two of my favorite people on this site use Workmates. I probably should shut my pie hole.


----------



## waho6o9

You're no fraud Mos.

Doing more with less is pure genius. Mos is in the upper 
rungs of Occam's Razor.

The most useful statement of the principle for scientists is
"when you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better."


----------



## Mosquito

Even though I do what I can with the workmate I must say I am so excited to be building a bench. Even if it's not even half the quality of Scott's bench, I'd be more than happy with it. At least until I get a real shop, where I have more space to keep one ;-)

I was trying to cut a rabbet on a narrower (3.5" wide) board using my #45 this past week, and I got extremely frustrated because I had no way of holding it effectively. I ended up rigging up the best I could with some clamps, blocks of wood, and the holders on the work mate, but in the end after sending the piece flying off the workmate 3-4 times, I just walked away before I did something that would cost me money….


----------



## mochoa

Smitty I need one of those barrels under a wing of my bench! I just don't know where to find one.

Al, I forget to post that link of the end vise you can make with the wooden screw you already have. http://dblaney.wordpress.com/2011/09/29/wooden-screws-can-become-a-vise/ I like it but I might just put one parallel guide bar on it. I think it would function exactly the same as a traditional shoulder vise and be a lot easier to make.

I would go square dogs too if I was starting from scratch I think they work a little better than round dogs.

Mos, I feel your pain man. Even when you move to a bigger place and get to make a bigger bench you will never regret building that little one. It will be all the sweeter to have two benches in your shop. The second one you make can be a little taller for joinery and sawing stuff like that. If you think about Its much better to have two 5' benches than one 8' bench.

This is a repost but I saw this end vise on a bench in an antique shop.


----------



## mochoa

Here are some pics of the underside of the bench. Check out those hinges. Those are for blocks that adjust the height of the bench.


----------



## Mosquito

Hmm… now you have me re-thinking about square dogs for mine… how far back should I put my dogs? I'm going to have a 1.5" thick front apron on my bench, and the whole top is going to be 10.5" wide. Would I be ok to just put the dogs just behind the front apron? I could just cut them straight into the front edge of my bench top slab that way… Otherwise I was figuring I'd just use round dogs because they're easier to drill…

I sort of like the idea of adding a shoulder vise for joinery, and making it a little taller… Who knows, maybe one day I'll have to make it even shorter, and have a future little one using it ;-) Or both, I suppose lol


----------



## lysdexic

I almost bought this wooden screw for you Mauricio but I felt that you wanted to make your own in the end. It was really handsome. Maybe 2" diameter, 24" all original including the nut. It was dated 1867. $100. I dont know if that is a good deal.


----------



## Bertha

*You're no fraud Mos.*
.
You know, I've been out in the shop for a few hours regretting that comment. I'm sorry for it. I think the comment was directed at me specifically; the guy with several 100 bf of kiln dried fir, two Eerie screws, a jointer, planer, and no bench. The "fraud" comment was directed squarely at me. I hope you accept my apology for a poorly crafted comment.
.
Scotty, I probably would have bought the screw but I don't think you walked away from a good deal. $100 will put you into a screw with a much greater diameter. The head-to-shaft ratio that you suffer from is obvious in this screw. It's got a cool garter, but other than just being straight-up cool, I'm worried that the hub is so large that it'd get in the way. 
.
Maur, thank you so much! I'm wondering about how to manage the guides. I've got a lot of thinking to do, and I haven't done much recently.
.
I'm going to joint a bench board today. Gotta start somewhere.


----------



## Brit

AL - Compared to some on this site, it you've only made one comment you regret in 12717, I don't think you're doing too badly. )


----------



## mochoa

Mos, that sounds like a plan, but first think about what kind of end vise you are going to use to make sure the dog on it will be in line with your dog holes.

Thanks for thinking of me Scott! It is pretty sweet but it is a little steep.

You know I almost gave up on the wooden screws the other day but my wife talked me out of it. She has been using my failure as an example to for the kids about not getting frustrated and giving up when things are difficult… She's like, "what do you think kids, do you think dad should give up?" They said no….

So I'm stuck! Ha ha ha.

Actually I'm half way through making my new jig.

The wife and kids are at a B Day party, I'm off to cut the grass (mulch leaves) real quick and to see if I get some shop time!


----------



## Mosquito

I took no offense from it Al, no worries. I knew it was directed at yourself, but I just thought I'd throw it out there "could be worse"  You at least have a real dedicated "shop" not a spare bedroom with a tarp, and your parent's patio :-D


----------



## Mosquito

Mauricio, I was thinking about that… I was thinking about using a shoulder vise screw for a wagon vise. Thought was cutting a notch out off of the end of the slab, just behind the front apron. Otherwise, I was also thinking about one of the veritas inset vises. I know I'd be able to make the inset work. It has to be minimum of 1 1/2" from the front to the center of the dog, which would fit fine in this arrangement. But I think I'd rather go with a wagon if I could… Still working on that part yet.


----------



## WhoMe

"I've been using a 3×2 foot bench made of pine stairs for many years now. Any improvement will be like heaven. I've posted over 12,000 times in a woodworking forum and I don't own a bench, lol. Total fraud.

eh hem…. "

Al, MOS, I am in the same situation. My workbenches consist of my table saw top and a workmate. SO like Al said, Any improvement will be heaven. Especially if I can get it to stay still while working on it.

Al, I will be anxious to hear how your Fir workbench comes out.

Scott, congrats on the celebratory stickers and the completion of your workbench. I'm thinking that maybe the dinner out is the family's way of saying, welcome back dad…..


----------



## Bertha

*You at least have a real dedicated "shop"*
.
Thanks, Mos; and thanks, Andy. I still regret the comment; and that's coming from a transvestite adult baby 
.
Mos, I was lucky enough to have a better 1/2 that gave me some room when house shopping. I was looking for shop POTENTIAL but was lucky enough to find a house with more or less a shed. As small as it is, and as much work as I've put into it, I probably don't deserve it. 
.
Trust me, though, my good friend. When you manage to get a dedicated space, it'll be a day that's worth all the waiting. If I could eat and sleep out in my little shop, I would. If I keep buying guns, I might get my chance


----------



## ksSlim

Those of you interested, in wooden screw vises, might want check out Swartz's blog.
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/workbenches/schwarz-workbenches/more-wooden-vise-options-evans-wood-screw-co

I didn't realize there were more than a few options.


----------



## mochoa

Nice!
Al, they have a site with scetchup plans for making a variety of different vises using the wooden screws. 
http://www.thetraditionalcarpenter.com/Blog/?page_id=53


----------



## carguy460

Smit, Al - thanks for the input on my 2×6 dilemma. I also just realized that you guys keep mentioning Scotts bench…Dude, I've been reading your blog and for some reason never caught on to the thickness of your top (don't take that the wrong way)...is it really 6"? Wait - don't answer, I'll just read your blog again…

EDIT: Ok, so 5", right Scott? Great idea on the counter-sunk dogs/holdfast holes…again, why didn't I think of that?

So maybe 6" thick would be cool?


----------



## Bertha

Scott's bench is ridiculous. Out of guilt, I don't look at it too much anymore. I'm hoping he'll sell it to me and start on another one. 
.
I think 6" would be super cool.


----------



## carguy460

6" thick top with 6" thick legs? Would that look funny? Wait - its a workbench, so why do I care? Well dammit I just do! I'm with you, Al…talk about a workbench for 313 days (according to my LJ timeline) and still have nothin…but I did go from 1 handplane to 11 planes and 12 (or 13?) hand saws in those 313 days…does that forgive my lack of workbench - and lack of mallet?


----------



## Bertha

The bench, I understand. I've made too much of a thing of it; spend too much time looking at beautiful ones. The mallet might be something you should attend to. You'll be getting one soon, at least. I still haven't mailed Scott's. I'll make you one if you like. 
.
$2000 Scotty. Twenty $100 bills in your hand today.


----------



## waho6o9

Whatcha going to do with 2 G's Scotty?

Congrats and well deserved. U da man ScottyYo.


----------



## carguy460

Fear not, Al - I WILL make myself a whacker soon…like tonight soon…well, maybe. It is deer season, after all…excuses, excuses, I know.

All these amazing workbenches haunt my dreams. They wander around in my mind, taunting me. I'm paralyzed by fear of failure on my bench - I should probably just nut-up, shut-up and git-r-done!


----------



## Bertha

Jason, our feelings are identical.
.
Waho, thanks for help planting the seed
.
C'mon Scotty, what ya say?


----------



## BrandonW

Scotty, I don't need to tell you, but Al is trying to rip you off. ;-)


----------



## mochoa

Yeah 2k is a low ball offer.


----------



## Bertha

lolol, a guy's got to try
.
How about $3K, Scotty?


----------



## lysdexic

Believe it or not I have had a couple of offers to buy it. Silly people.

If you look at the cost of materials it gets up there pretty quick…

Lumber
Bench Crafted bench builders kit
TWW Guild membership
router bits
drill bits and taps
other items that i need anyway but bought for this build

But the real kicker is the time. The opportunity cost. I took a week off of work in April to plow thru the milling process and get the glue-ups done. That's a week of lost wages.


----------



## BrandonW

You can buy a Lie-Nielsen bench for a pretty reasonable price. I think my bench cost under $400 in materials, but when you add up the labor costs etc., they become very expensive very quickly. I doubt it would be possible for a buyer to give Scott the amount that the bench is worth to him.


----------



## WhoMe

But, since most of you that have built workbenches built your own, doesn't that mean the labor is free?


> ?


?


> ?


?

Ok, well maybe not…..


----------



## lysdexic

Brandon - you could pay me enough but the price would be on par to the McGuire benches. Still, I could part with it more as a gift than a product. I enjoyed the build and IF I had the time I'd like to build another.

Two things i would consider doing differently…..

1. Price out having someone else mill the boards for the top
2. Use a blander wood for the top ie oak, ash or hard maple.
3. Maybe not do a split top


----------



## Boatman53

I'm glad to hear your building a new bench Scott. Can't wait to follow along on this one.
Jim


----------



## lysdexic

Jim, you are friggin crazy if you think I am building a new bench. LOL. I was just saying what I might do differently the next time. For now I have had enough. :^)

BTW - I got the sprocket in the mail today. Thanks.


----------



## JGM0658

3. Maybe not do a split top

Why not?


----------



## Boatman53

Glad you got the sprocket Scott. Let me know it it drops right in. I think all you need to do is slack the chain and loosen the axle bolt to replace.
Jim


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I am building a new bench…. - ScottyB'Yo

You, Sir, are crazy…


----------



## BrandonW

Scott, this new bench has to be something different. We've seen so many Roubos, that the other bench styles are beginning to feel neglected. Plus, I don't think I've seen a single solid-walnut bench on the site.


----------



## AnthonyReed

+1 on your new bench being made of walnut Scott.


----------



## mochoa

Mos, here is the bench your making:








http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/?p=500

You know the inset wagon vise might be your best option since your wing on the right might be a little to short for anything else.


----------



## Mosquito

Almost exactly… I just came across that bench last night, when I was browsing around after Scotty mentioned the McGuire benches.

And I'm thinking that the inset might be the way I go for this one. As much as I would rather an actual wagon vise, I would agree that I'm not sure I've got enough travel to make it work. I'd end up with a pretty small dog block in the wagon…


----------



## mochoa

What about a standard face vise with a dog mounted on the end? It would be more versatile and increase your clamping capacity.


----------



## Mosquito

I have thought about that, but I'm not really crazy on the idea, but I'm not really sure why. It may be as simple as an aesthetics thing…


----------



## mochoa

With a wooden screw, it would be dope???... I wish I could commit to making you one. Well see as you get closer to that stage of the build…


----------



## BrandonW

I think the face vise mounted on the end is a great idea. Of course I have it on my bench and I end up using the face/tail vise all the time.


----------



## Mosquito

Wooden screw would be worth it ;-)
-

I guess I was picturing the metal vises, not so much what you pictured Brandon. I could probably settle for that, but it can only be so wide (or it would be off the bench top and onto the tool tray)


----------



## BrandonW

I hear what you're saying about the all-metal vises. Not very pretty to look at.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

I realize the answer is probably in this forum but I cannot read all 2100 replies.

I am about to get started on the construction of my base and need some advice on *top to base attachment*. I am a bit skeptical about using hardware as a don't want to need another doghole someday and drill into a lag screw. I have read a little about just putting good sized dowels in the tops of the legs with matching holes in the top and just letting it sit on top. My top is 116 lbs by itself right now, I still need to add some ash to the underside yet and two vises so it will get heavier yet.

Any thoughts?


----------



## Mosquito

The width between legs at the bottom of the bench is only around 4" ... not sure if that'd fit well in there or not


----------



## mochoa

Glenn what is your base going to look like?


----------



## mochoa

Grant, I mean.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

I started off with the $175 workbench plan and incorporated *a lot* of other things into, turning out to be the $300 workbench.

It will be very similar to this (taken from this blog ) but It is still unbuilt and I am very open to suggestions.


----------



## mochoa

If its going to be a split top I would think you might need some lag screws. but if it is going to be one piece i bet you would be fine with a couple of little (bullets?) dowels rounded over on the ends.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

No split top, solid. I may go that way then. I'll modify my base to in that case.

Another question, I will be putting a deadman on this bench and I think that I will go with the triangle runner (^) on the bottom with a corresponding "^"on the bottom of the deadman. This is fine but I can never see in the pictures that people post how the top of the deadman is attached/slides on the bottom side of the bench.


----------



## joewilliams

Grant, check this out on Brandon's workbench blog.


----------



## mochoa

Unless your using a leg vise in which case you will need a stub tenon to keep the leg vise from pushing the top off the base.

Here are some pics of the tenon that slides under the top. 
Smitty's bench








Here is my tenon but I dont have a pic of it under the bench, I will have to get one.


----------



## lysdexic

Jorge,

To split or not to split. I dont know. There pluses,and minus. A split top does make for easier handling during top fabrication. I move a slab about with much difficulty. A solid top demands a helper to move.

However, at final flattening the is a degree of complexity getting the slabs co-planer and then flat.

Aesthetically, I still prefer a homogenous, monolithic slab

Functionally, the split offers opportunities that a solid top,does not. I am just sure yet how valuable these features will be. I don't anticipate having the need to clamp from the middle gap. I am skeptical of the gap stop substituting for a tool holder. Considering the fact the tool handles will stick up right in the middle of the bench, it seems the handles will be in the way more than not. I have considered making another tool holder and screwing it to the back edge. I thing Derek Cohen gave me that idea.

Yet, the feature that I am finding most useful is employing the gap stop as a …..stop. Having a stop is most useful.

So, I am conflicted.


----------



## lysdexic

Grant, with a solid top, I would recommend a stub tenon. If you don't want to go thru the trouble of making a m&t then using a thick, say 1 inch, dowel would do the trick.

You don't really need to "attach the top". You just need it not to slide around.


----------



## lysdexic

Brandon, yours is the bench the gave me the initiative to start mine. Seeing your pic just reminded me.


----------



## Mosquito

Love the Crocs Maur!
-

Grant, that looks like it will make a very nice bench top. 
-

I must say I'm torn on the idea of a split top vs not. I can see the functionality of a split top, but I also prefer the looks of the solid top… I'd also be torn. Hopefully I like my smaller bench with tool tray… Anything is better than a work mate, so either way I'll be better off  
-

I apparently can't take pictures well with my cellphone, but this is what the top will look like, mostly. This past weekend when I was at the parents' I cut all the top outside pieces to length. I think I'll be dovetailing sides to the front, so that will be about 1.5" less for the depth of the top… Also, the slab will be flush with the outside pieces obviously.


----------



## BrandonW

Did you hear that everybody? I'm basically the reason why Scott's awesome bench exists.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Wow, thanks for all the help guys (*Mauricio, joewilliams, ScottyB*) And thanks for the compliment *Chris*, the top took quit awhile for me to mill all of the boards and glue them up in small sections growing to larger sections. A lot of TB III was used in the making. If anyone was wondering I forgot to mention that the top is Ash with Purpleheart accents. The base will be all ash with a little purple flare as well. I can't wait to get a day or two off to really tackle this thing and finish it!

I wish I would've found this forum earlier. I think that I will go with the stub tenons (i.e., 1" dowels) and therefore that will slightly change my base build. The deadman hints and tips are great everyone. Thanks again everyone. If I run across anymore problems I can assure you that I'll come here first.


----------



## JGM0658

Thanks Scott, I was asking mainly because I would have thought that a split top would aid in keeping the top flat if you allowed for movement. There are few thing I am anal about, having a flat top is one of them since I use it as a reference a lot.

The problem I see with a lot of benches here is that they have a static attachment to the legs, do not allow for movement and you have to flatten the bench every so often (I made this mistake with my bench too). In my case about twice a year since I use pine for my benches.


----------



## mochoa

Ah! how did that croc slip in there.


----------



## mochoa

Mos that bench is going to be sweet man, nice to see it coming together.

Grant, what kind of vise are you using? Stub tenons and the little bullet dowels are not the same thing, just to be clear. If you are going with a leg vise the dowels may not be enough. If your using a face vise then they should be fine.


----------



## mochoa

Mos, a wagon vise could work for you if you really wanted one. You could use one of those veneer press screws, it only has to travel 3 or 4 inches which would be about the distance between dog holes. It just wouldn't be as versatile as a face vise since you would be able clamp much vertically in the hole.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

*Mauricio* good point. I guess I considered them to do the same thing but they are different. I'd sleep better if I went with the stub tenons instead of the dowels. I am having a homemade sort of twin screw vise on the front face from two lee valley tail vise screws like this one.









I am doing a non traditional placement of a cabinet makers vise on the right end end towards the back. The placement will actually look just like this picture. Most benches have similar vises up to the front face of the bench but I want mine on the back. I am right handed so I like to cut on the right side of the bench (if that makes any sense) I guess I like to have my left hand resting on the actually work piece locked down in a vise.









I will be able to walk 360 around my bench so vises getting in my way aren't a concern as I will always have 2 vise free sides. The vise setup is similar to that of Robert Lang's 21st Century workbench here. I like the large vise on the front. I could just ramble forever on my workbench ideas but I have a few free hours this morning, the bench is calling me….and I also need a haircut.


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## mochoa

I think you would be fine with the dowels but go with the stub tenons if it makes you feel better. Your not using a leg vise that actually pushes the top back so you would be fine with either.


----------



## Mosquito

I think I mentioned it somewhere before, but I have no idea where, but I was thinking about using a shoulder screw instead of a wagon/tail vise screw. Just because it would be shorter. I'd also looked at the veneer press screws too. By design so far, it's around 9" from the end to where the outside of the leg starts on the right side, but that's still able to change, since I haven't made the mortices in the benchtop, or the horizontal stretcher.


----------



## Boatman53

Wow it's hard to keep up with all this. 
Welcome Grant. Please don't just post when you have a question, post as you go along and often you will get ideas from others that help you end up with a better bench. 
I just wanted to mention that it is not hard to shorten a screw on your own. In an article that Frank Klaus did on his bench he shortened a screw and releaving the end to fit the end pad with a bench grinder. 
Jim


----------



## GlennsGrandson

I like the shorter screw idea of the shoulder vise *Chris* but then your handle is always at the same spot, it won't move in, only your face will get closer to the bench and you'll always have the handle 7" out or whatever. Unless of course you are going to do a true shoulder vise.

Unless you can take that very end piece off and then somehow attach a the face right behind the handle..

Good point *Jim*, I will continue to follow this and keep updating with some pictures. I need to run to the sawmill about 30 miles away either tomorrow or Tuesday and pick up some more ash.


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## Mosquito

With using the shoulder vise screw, the nut would be mounted in my end cap, and the handle would move in and out with the dog block. That's the part that I don't like about using the shoulder vise screw.

I'm sure I could shorten a different screw, but I would only really gain about an inch, and I'd also be paying a lot more for the screw, just to chop it down… If I put the screw under the bench, and had the dog block run parallel, but offset (as with many implementations) then I could make it clear the leg. But then I'd again be at the point of having a 20" vise screw that I can only use 7" of…


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Oh ok, I see what you're saying Chris, I was thinking of a different style vise I guess. Yeah for the price and the convenience what's the big difference in 1". Good thinking.


----------



## Mosquito

I suppose I could also drill a hole in my end cap, and then mortise an area for the nut to recess, but then instead of screwing the nut into the end cap, I could screw the end bearing plate into the bench, and then have the block fit over/around the screw, and have the nut travel back and forth, but I don't see that working very well..


----------



## Mosquito

hoping for some progress on my bench this weekend, and then hopefully a new blog entry to go along with it.

Taking the glued and planed legs to a friends place to cut them with his miter saw, as mine only does 2×4's. Thought about cutting them by hand, but I want to make them as close to perfect as I can, and I'm just not quite there yet with hand saws, I don't think. At least when there's this much at stake lol.

I had some thoughts on my tool well, though. I was thinking about either using T&G boards running with grain perpendicular to the bench top, or finding/making a single board that ran the whole way (the grain would run parallel with the top that way, I think).

But the other idea I had (and reason for posting) was to make it so I could remove it and have a ledge around the top inside of the well, that I could then set the well bottom boards in, to make it flush with the rest of the bench.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?


----------



## Boatman53

Hi Mos, your comment about the ledge around the tool well is something to concider. I have a shallow tool well and thought about putting some cleats on the underside of a board that I could drop in if I needed more flat expanse of work top. I like the ledge idea though.


----------



## mochoa

I might just go with a board with feed on it that rest on the well bottom, the feet elevate it flush with the top. They showed one like this on the Rough Cut episode on building a workbench.


----------



## Mosquito

I had thought about that too, Mauricio. The issue I have with that is, knowing myself, I would end up having that second board in place, getting everything on the bench that I needed the space for, only to find that something I need is still in the tool well, because I was too lazy to take everything out before I covered it lol.

Also, the removable bottom would also serve as a way to clean dust/chips/shavings as well.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Progress

I got my benchtop sanded down with a 48" sander today at a local sawmill ($1/min). Totally worth the $20, it's dead flat, just an amazing machine. I also picked up some more wood today that I had shorted myself. I'm up to about 95 BF. I started working on the base a little today but progress is moving slower than expected. The mortising takes a decent amount of time. I've finished 4 of the 12 mortises (one side). Hopefully I can get an early start tomorrow and maybe finish all of them up before work at 1 tomorrow.

Top after sanding (ended at 2.151" thick)









Top already in use on "temporary" legs









Left side dry fit test (pretty good)









The two bigger 7/4 boards on the floor are the crossbeams for the front and back. You can see on the front one there is a bit of a live edge left on it (he only charged me according to the narrowest part of the board). I'm undecided on whether or not to feature it as part of the design or try and hide it on the back. If I feature it the live edge will be facing forward with the live edge on the bottom (I need to have the ^ on the top of the board for the sliding deadman so the live edge has to be on the bottom). Any thoughts on this, to feature or hide?









Thanks in advance


----------



## mochoa

One of those things that really hurts to see hanging from the ceiling of a cracker barrel.


----------



## BrandonW

Mauricio, I hate it when I see usable antiques wasting their potential as decorations. That looks like a fully functional vise, too.


----------



## Mosquito

Have you made them an offer yet?
-

Almost missed it, nice progress Grant! Things are looking great. at $1/hr, and $20 to run that through the sander, it sounds like money well spent there…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I heard anything in Crackerbarrel is for sale, just have to ask. Never tried it, but I've never seen anything that good in there before.


----------



## BrandonW

Which Crackerbarrel was this at, Mauricio?


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## mochoa

I didn't know they sold the stuff! That vise was perfect, square cross section threads though.


----------



## bandit571

While i do have a bench for the use of planes, I am going to need a second type of bench. I have a few benchtop power tools, and will need a "Benchtop" to sit them on, down in the Dungeon Workshop. Little bandsaw, a small Drillpress, dual wheel grinder, and a Monarch machinist's vise. Will also need to place the rest of the hand toys, er, tools nearby. Maybe a bottom shelf to store toolboxes ( FOUR of them!)

Don't have a lot in the budget, so get things solid but CHEAP. Maybe a couple 2×12s deep? Some sturdy legs so it won't walk across the concrete floor? And, NO to pegboard hanging up behind the bench…

Saws and stuff will get a plywood board with dowels to hang stuff on. Four Tapcons into the wall, with some cleats. Wood screws to hold the ply to the cleats, and hang away. Going from a Pole Barn to a root cellar…


----------



## mochoa

South Atl off 285


----------



## Bertha

Scotty, someone needs to make a bench screed for the split inclined. I'm also going with the stub b/c I don't want to plane a through, although it's prettier. There's nothing I don't like about Smit's bench, particularly the underside. 
.
I'm torn between tech and lore. ScottyB's or Carter's are the tech kings. The underside of Smit's is the lore king. Maur's is kind of the best of both worlds. I bought wooden screws for the lore; like that wagon for the tech. I'm screwed. Has anyone ever let some all-thread pass through a perforation in their leg tenon? I think I agree with ScottyB that the racking potential for the planing action is probably exaggerated. A popular bench builder is 100 pounds after Thanksgiving. I don't think he really needs drawboring. My tiny bench is a cube, lol. Allthread, lagbolts, and split washers. I think I could throw it off the roof without breaking it. 
.
That being said, I'll probably drawbore, lol


----------



## Bertha

Maur, I don't think I'd want to be eating chicken fried steak under a few of those items Ask for the franchise owner, tell him your story, and I bet he'll sell it to you. 
.
Bandit, I'm going with kiln dried Douglas Fir just for availability. I'm up to 300bf with those silly rounded edges. I just buy everything straight when I'm at Lowe's. I jointed one and it sucked a lot of size off. In my mind, that was SFW.


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## GlennsGrandson

Got the other leg dry fitted, set the top on them to get a feel for it.
I'll work on the tenons for the crossbeams tomorrow morning and maybe do some mortising if I am quick enough.


















Doing some Mortising


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## mochoa

Grant, the bench is looking great man!

Unfortunately I had already left the Cracker barrel so I couldn't ask about buying it. It wasn't even the only screw they had hanging which is unusual.

The chop had an interesting shape. 









And here is the other screw they had hanging. This one also hand square threads. 









Al why dont you just make one big butcher block cube! It sounds like you have the wood for it.


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## mochoa

Here is another really interesting leg vise design. 









She gets an angled leg vise without having to have an angled leg.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/workbenches/schwarz-workbenches/meagans-workbench-not-that-megan-this-one


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## lysdexic

Mauricio,

Aren't you a little skeptical of that design? It seems to me that there are some interesting torque moments acting upon that chop. I'd expect some serious racking but would have to see it in action before passing judgement.


----------



## mochoa

I dont know I think it actually looks like the force might be more in line with the screw and parallel guide. Even better than a standard vertical chop I think. For example if your dovetailing the end of a board.


----------



## Bertha

Lots to love and hate about that bench. I'm with Scotty; what receives the screw? 'cause it ain't the leg. Is the lowermost point a laminate? Way too close the the crochet and the sweep of the chop, although cool, would weaken the assembly without the crochet. Sans the crochet, all that force would seek to split the grain at the screw. All moot points, though; backseat driver and all.
.
What I like about it is alot. I actually love the milkpaint. I like end caps. I'm intrigued by the stretcher v. leg joint at 9:00. If when using the crochet, the chop binds against that angle on the crochet, that would be a phenomenal grab. I like the heft of the crochet. I like the waisted deadman. I especially like that it rides on a round/cove. The top is really pretty. I think it's super friggin cool and I enjoyed looking at it. 
.
There's a lot of work there; I'm surprised the maker didn't spring for a nicer screw. I can't tell what's going on at the tail. 
.
It's artsy, but for me, Worlds apart from Maur's and Scotty's.


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## Bertha

I just figured out what it reminds me of
.








.
The New Orleans-based Confederate Motorcycle Company's "Wraith".


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## donwilwol

its to busy for me. To much going on just for the sake of it.


----------



## Bertha

Speaking of Confederate
.








.
"Starting" at $100,000.
.
Bada$$, though. How much for one with a seat?


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## mochoa

Here are a couple of comments from the builder posted in the replies to the blog:

"To answer a couple questions: Yes, the vise leg had to be widened, at the top, by grafting on another 2" of material. The widened part is hidden by the curve of the vise chop. As to dimensions, the top (with end-skirts added) is about 6'3" long by 28" wide. Height is a bit over 32" since I like to stand on a thick mat while I work."


----------



## mochoa

Those bikes are bad aas. I see the resemblance in the leg vise.

Happy Thanksgiving from New Orleans by the way! Visiting the family over here.


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## Bertha

You dirty man, Maur. Where are you going to eat after you eat? New Orleans is a celebratory city and I hope you have a blast with the familia. Mail me some oysters. I saw Brad Pitt riding one of those bikes in N.O. once (true). He was too far away for a throat punch.
.
That was nice of the builder to comment on the design. 75 inches long. I wish I could fit that. My plan is 60", up from my 36" lol. I used to stand on a thick mat but it made me feel unstable; my problem. I thought about cutting up a 1" hard powerlifting mat, but those things are so ridiculously expensive.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

..."Height is a bit over 32" since I like to stand on a thick mat while I work."…

Wow, that's short, I would't think 32" needed justification for being "that tall". My bench is going to sit at 38" (I'm 6'3")

Got most of the tenons cut for the crossbeams today. Cut the rail for the deadman to slide on also. Snapped one quick picture before I left for work. (At a hospital, people still seem to hurt themselves on Thanksgiving)


----------



## mochoa

Al, unfortunately I don't get to eat out much when I'm in NOLA, mostly home cooking. But I did get out tonight to get some food from Harbor Seafood in Kenner. Got some Artichoke Oyster soup which is the bomb, also got a half an Oyster Po Boy and Half a Softshell crab Po boy. Jaquemos is high on my list, I need to make it out there one day.

Grant the builder of that bench is female so that might help explain it, though I am going with a low bench since I'm planning on using it for a lot of hand planing. I'm 6' 2" and my bench is 33.5". Its not finished yet but I'm already using it and the height feels pretty good. I will make a bench top bench down the road for joinery and carving.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Interesting Mauricio, I only have one main hand plane right now but want more. I haven't found the right ones yet, I like usable antique. I hope that I'm not screwing up by making my bench to high. I planed the top on saw horses at about 38 and I thought it was comfortable, but I'm still very inexperienced with a lot of hand tooling. It is very enjoyable though and I am finding a good balance between power and hand tools. If it's too high I'll just have to make another one, darn it..

Thanks for the info!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The benchtop is thankful for a fresh application of Watco danish oil.


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## lysdexic

That bench is a lot cleaner than yesterday.

[Shane and Gshep - Noe of the pictures in that blog show up for me either. Last night I thought is had to do with Safari. I am on a PC now and they still dont show. I wonder where all the photos went. Hmm. Regardless, I'll see if I can't find that one pic when I get home tonight. Its been a busy weekend/holiday.]

oops - wrong thread


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## lysdexic

Smit - when was the last time you flattened your bench.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

ScottyYo, I've not flattened it. And it's not flat. Issue? Not yet…


----------



## AnthonyReed

Smitty you are one of my heroes.


----------



## waho6o9

Smitty's top shelf, no doubt.


----------



## Bertha

Look at that friggin benchtop. I cannot promise that I'm not crying right now.


----------



## lysdexic

I like the shadows


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## Bertha

^it's that saw tote shadow you like. But you can step out of the shadows now, Scotty. We have a democratic President and your kind are more accepted now. Step out and shine, sister.


----------



## Sylvain

After reading :
http://paulsellers.com/2012/10/the-long-and-short-of-bench-heights/
I tried to find what health and safety people recommend.
(Do we need to reinvent the wheel?)

The height recommended by Paul Sellers is the lower limit for what is recommended for "light work"; which is consistent with using hand tools for joinery, smoothing and scraping, the rough dimensioning being made with machines as he says he does (at least that is what I understand).

This 38" height for an average man corresponds approximately to the addition of the anterior superior iliac spine height and the shoe heel height.

If you are taller or smaller, you can find yourself where it is.


----------



## Bertha

Sylvain breaks out the anatomy! That's a really interesting rule of thumb and I thank Sylvain for that. I'll have to measure mine and see where I'm at. I think my tiny bench is a bit too low, actually. Will inform.


----------



## AnthonyReed

^Platform shoes in the shop will cause that.


----------



## Bertha

^I wear man-clogs, Tony. They may be pink and bedazzled, but not pedestrian "platform" by any stretch.
.
Strong callout.


----------



## mochoa

My height ended up where it is because I didnt account for the loss of height on the splayed back legs. Fortunately I'm right where Schwarz says the bench should be for planing. Time will tell how that works out.

I'm hoping that Schwarz is right and I get more of a legs and abs workout when planing rather than just an upper body workout. My old 2×4 bench is higher and I do feel that is a bit high with certain tasks. I've gotten sore elbows with a lot of scrub and jointing work.

With the new bench which I'm already using even though it's not glued up. I like the height but I do feel like I need to make sure to bend my legs when planing otherwise I'm bending at the waist which can get old.

The cool thing about the low bench is that rather than pushing the plane your bearing down on it which makes the pane go, that feels pretty good.

I think 38" is good for a hybrid woodworker who, as Sylvain explains above, is doing his rough dimensioning with machines. My goal (at this point) is to use machines less as my hand toll skills improve so thats why a low bench was right for me.


----------



## chrisstef

...*wear man-clogs, Tony* - oxymoron of the week.


----------



## donwilwol

I agree Chris. Its like capri's for men. Really!!


----------



## chrisstef

FYI - over at the HPOYD thread the link to the epic holiday calendar is up.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Why leg vises?..

I don't really understand them, why them over a twin vise screw or shoulder vise?


----------



## Boatman53

You can hold things like this.








Plus no guide bars to get in the way. All vises have their strengths and downfalls. For me the leg vise has more strengths. I also have s leg vise on the right side of the bench. But if I need to remove it all I have to do is unscrew it and it's gone.
Jim


----------



## Mosquito

Mauricio, what height did you end up making your bench?

When I was cutting my splayed I almost goofed… when I had layed the cut lines out, I started the tape measure at 1", but then went to the length I needed instead of adding that inch… oops. Luckily I caught it before I cut them, so my bench is 32" high.

Ok, so I know Al will get all hot and bothered over this one, but I'm proud of it


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Interesting idea…A leg vise is kind of like a twin screw vise that is vertical, or vise versa (ha). Why hasn't someone tried to do a horizontal leg vise, one could use only one screw and save money, still have the pin parallel beam on one end…hmmm…

Thanks for that picture Jim


----------



## Boatman53

Don't need the pin with the Ancora Yacht service chain leg vise thingy. http://ancorayachtservice.com/?page_id=221
Sorry couldn't resist another shameless plug.
Jim


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Grant, the leg vise is simply the most awesome bench accessory around… Versatile, strong and incredible effective at holding all kinds of work, the inexpensive and humble leg vise is pound for pound unbeatable…

Stepping of the soapbox.



Good luck with whatever you decide on your bench!


----------



## AnthonyReed

^ I don't often give resounding endorsements but when i do…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop




----------



## donwilwol

I've got a 10" columbian bench vise, a veritas twin screw, and a leg vise on my bench. If one of them had to go first it would be the veritas. Don't get me wrong, I love it, I just don't use it as much as the other two. Of the other two it would be a really tough choice, but the leg vice would most likely stay the longest.


----------



## mochoa

Mos great to see that bench coming together quickly. Mine will be 33.5" (I'm 6' 2"). I was stretching to get that much height out of it. I didn't account for the loss of height on the splayed legs when doing my rough cuts. I think its cool though, I'm at the Schwarz approved hight.

I didnt realize you were doing through tenons. Its going to look sweet.

I like the leg vise for the reasons mentioned above as well as the fact that its the cheapest of all of them ;-)


----------



## mochoa

I'll add to that and say that Moxon type vise will be a nice accompaniment to the leg vise and I plan on making one.


----------



## Mosquito

I saw an $80+$10 shipping 2" hard maple screw, nut, handle, and garter plate on eBay today… But, my back leg is only 3.5" wide, so I'm not sure I want to drill a 2" hole through the leg, if a wooden screw was long enough to go through both. So I was figuring I'd go with a metal screw instead.

I think I've also (almost/mostly) settled on a Veritas inset vise instead of a true wagon. It will be far easier given the scale of my bench. Though I haven't given up just yet, I might still change my mind ;-)

I've been trying hard to not post all my pictures, so I have something new to post in my blog, but here's another one lol


----------



## mochoa

Mos, you can still glue on some cheeks to either side of the back leg to add some strength where the screw goes through the leg. If you really want a 2" wooden screw I can make one for you, I just got some new Hard Maple dowels and I can give you a way sweeter deal than $80. You can be my beta tester. Would have to be after the holidays though.


----------



## mochoa

Bench is looking awesome by the way. You know you can still make a wagon vise with one of those veneer press screws or shoulder vise screws I'm just not sure how much vertical clamping capacity you would have through the whole which would be the only advantage (besides price).


----------



## AnthonyReed

That is a whole lotta sexy Mos.


----------



## Mosquito

you're starting to change my mind… Crap lol I should have made both the front and back legs 5.5" wide, instead of just the front. But then I probably would have had to make all of them that large, or it would look awkward… hmmm. I'll look into the additional reinforcement on both sides, as I would prefer a wooden screw to metal, for no real reason other than aesthetics 

-
Showin' a little leg, Tony ;-)


----------



## mochoa

Well there is actually an advantage, 2tpi vs. 5 or so on a metal screw. The wooden screw opens and closes faster. Let it marinade and let me know.


----------



## mochoa

And the hole on the back leg would have to be slightly bigger than 2" to let the screw slide through easily. Mine is 2 1/8".


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Thought that I'd share my cross beam attachment. I took the idea from the $175 workbench PDF available here (you have to go to the bottom of the last (3rd) page and click on the PDF link, or just read it online).


----------



## mochoa

Looking strong Grant!


----------



## Sylvain

horzontal "leg" vise

http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/?p=440


----------



## mochoa

Sylvain that thing is sweet.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

*Sylvain* Thank you for that, I am curious as to the mechanism of it but I could not easily find more information on that particular vise. Very cool though.

*Bench Height* My current working table/workbench is about 39" high, pretty high. While on my last major mortise of my bench today I was definitely feeling it in my shoulders and elbows (I'm only 25, so I doubt it's arthritis!). I have been putting a lot of force downward with my chisels and a lot of hammering. I grabbed 4" of scraps for me to stand on and it made a world of difference. I wonder now if I've made my bench to high, but then again I remember that I will rarely be making this many mortises that are this big. I also like a good mix of hand and power tools.


----------



## mochoa

Gant, thats exactly what I was talking about. There is a lot of hand work that would benefit from you being able to get your weight over the tool to use more of your body instead of just your upper body.

The parallel guide on the bench that Sylvain showed uses friction to limit wracking of the vise chop, most of them are made of wood, McGuire figured out a way to make a fancy one out of steel.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mos, I thought many times, long and hard (steady, bhog), on the Veritas inset vise for a wagon-type add to my bench. Nothing wrong with that choice at all, to my way of thinking. It's the real deal in work holding.


----------



## bhog

^


----------



## Sylvain

Grant,

http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/?p=206

For an all wooden vise as above look at :

http://schoolofwood.com/node/22
http://schoolofwood.com/node/23
http://schoolofwood.com/node/24
http://schoolofwood.com/node/25
http://schoolofwood.com/node/26


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Smitty. If it works it works, and that's what I'm after… it can't be a whole lot worse than a workmate lol

That $80 maple screw, nut, handle, and garter plate that I mentioned yesterday didn't sell, but it was relisted… for $100 (still $10 shipping). Interesting tactic.


----------



## jap

That's really cool Sylvain


----------



## mochoa

Supply and Demand just move different directions in that guys world. You got a link?


----------



## Mosquito

original 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271108588430?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

relisted
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271112924975?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:VRI&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2661


----------



## mochoa

At least he gives. You the handle and the garter too. I would sell them without those, maybe inclide the handle. I think most people would want to make their own garter out of some exotic wood as an accent.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, it didn't seem like that bad of a price for $90 shipped, but for $110 after $90 didn't sell… ok.

I should be a was off on a leg vise screw anyway. That will probably be later. I will probably try to figure something out for the end/wagon vise first, though.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

I was curious about making some dowels from some purpleheart so I can pin my tenons (and add a little accent). Looked around on here and found this video that was posted on a dowel forum about 3 years ago from LJ *Edziu*. Here it is. It's a great, cheap and simple idea to make dowels from anything that you have. I just wanted to re-share it with all of you in case someone needs it.


----------



## mochoa

Grant you discovered one of my favorite guys on youtube. I love that guy.

You could also make a dowel plate out of a peice of steel you can get at HD.


----------



## BrandonW

Or you can buy a dowel plate from Lie-Nielsen and get a swanky leather cover for it. It's a little pricey, but it's sure nice to look at.


----------



## donwilwol

I always just made a piece of square stock the size I wanted, then ran it over a 1/2 round bit on the 4 sides.


----------



## Bertha

Glen, did you execute that with a Domino?


----------



## GlennsGrandson

A domino?


----------



## mochoa

The routed Oval whole for the nuts in your stretcher look like it was done with a domino machine. Domino's (festool?) are floating tenons with a machine that cuts the slot like a biscuit joiner.


----------



## waho6o9

Dominos rock!


----------



## Mosquito

"A domino?"

I would take that to be a no lol

-

Now that I've updated my blog, I feel better about posting this one here


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sweeet!


----------



## mochoa

Fo sheezy! And I see you really like Diet Pepsi!


----------



## BrandonW

Uh oh, Mauricio's a Coke apologist. I personally drink tons of Coke Zero, but then again Coke practically owns my university.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Lol, ok, no domino. Forstner bits and chisels.

Something doesn't look right here guys, I think that I put it together wrong…









Or maybe it's this way due to the water cooler that I'm drinking out of…


----------



## Mosquito

lol thanks guys. You have to remember that's my parents' garage  The diet Pepsi is what my dad drinks. They tend to buy large quantities at a time when it's on sale… I actually don't drink any carbonated beverage myself.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Need advise/help

I was just going to post pictures of this but I figured a video would give you guys a better idea of what's going on. Long story short, vise closing problems. Video is about 4 minutes long.

Thanks for anythings LJ's

While I wait for this video to upload I am thinking that maybe, to avoid the redrilling/screw following old hole problem, I should just remount the plate under the bench (with the female threaded hole) back or forward 3/4" and adjust it appropriately for a better closing…


----------



## waho6o9

Bummer on the vise Grant.

Send the video to Grizzly and see what they offer.

You do nice work and the vise should help you, not hinder you.


----------



## mochoa

Grant I would use a plane to hollow out the outside face of the vise chop till the casting mates with the surface. On the inside matting with the end of the vise I would also plane that down so it mates right. If you dont want to do that then pull the vise out, glue dowels into the screw holes and then remount it.
I'm not talking from experience or anything, just rowing ideas out there. Except for the glued in dowel trick, I have done that and it works.


----------



## BentheViking

just came across this from an email last week…little article from chris schwarz might be useful for someone like me who is thinking about building a bench and hasn't read his book yet


----------



## Brit

Grant - If you stand at the end of your bench facing the vise, it looks to me like you need to taper both the outside face and the inside faces a bit. On the outside face you need to take more off the left tapering back to the existing surface. On the inside face you need to take more off the right tapering back to the existing surface. Because you are taking about the same amount off of opposite ends of each face, the vise chop will still look square. Take off a little at a time and keep test fitting it until it is right. I know its a pain, but you only have to do it once.

Good luck!


----------



## DanKrager

If the metal vise faces were parallel in all planes when fully closed, then there is a mounting issue where small errors have compounded. Assuming that the metal parts were acceptable before assembly, then I think Brit's solution is quite good. Simple to do, minimum fuss and bother and a controllable process.

That's going to be a hum dinger bench! I may have some of my ash trees sawn up because the borer got them.

DanK


----------



## Sylvain

Does the outer face really needs to be parallel with the inner face?
I would go the 1st Mauricio way, especially if the casting is not flat.

Is the block added under the bench top perfectly perpendicullar to the top bench surface? Otherwise it could explain the gap as it seems you clamped the front jaw from below to install the vise. Another cause might be that the lower surface of the bench is not perpendicular to the outer surface of the added block.
Another solution might be to add shims where the back screws are tightening the mecanism to the underside of the bench top.

It seems a vise should grab first from the top, so a small gap under might even be advisable.
http://paulsellers.com/2012/05/questions-answered-vise-toe-in-issues/


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Everything should be dead square (should) I had the top ran through a thickness sander (both sides) and the block underneath was jointed on two sides and planed on the others. My chop is good and square and it appears that everything is nice and square until the chop and end of the bench mate. I planed and sanded the block while attached to the bench to ensure evenness as well. I need to flip the top over today to install my other vise any how so I think that I will unscrew the plate and tinker with it a bit, if I cannot get it right still I will do what *Mauricio and Andy* suggested and plane little by little off of each until they mate nicely. Hopefully everything gets nice and square so my dog holes will work well too.

The "twin screw" vise should be easier to do since there are two screws I can partially control how it closes, although I have a huge chop for it (I may regret this later), it is 36" wide 5 1/2" tall and about 3+" thick. I wanted to be able to have at least 24" between the screws so I'm going with 24 1/2", plus the screw width (1 1/8×2 = 2 1/4") now we're at 26 3/4" and I wanted a decent amount on the side of each screw for other things, so about 5" on each side and now I'm roughly at 36"...oofdah. It will take up about half of the front of my bench, but the other side of my bench is totally open. I'm also starting to regret the LV tail vises that I'm using as they seem to have fairly tight threads (as compared to the Grizzly) and there are two of them so it will be slow opening and closing. It has crossed my mind to look for a couple gear to fix to the vises and run a chain between them (like a true twin screw vise)...perhaps later.

Here's the big vise glue up, setting as I type.









*Also* I know my floor is very dirty in that picture, I was doing a lot of planing yesterday, and I do wear a respirator.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

*update * *Sylvain *You were right, I double checked my end to top and they were off. That explains the gap. As for the side to side being off I think that was the bottom plate, moved it and it's almost perfect. I'll post a video later when it's working properly. The combination of both was just bad news. Thanks everyone!


----------



## GlennsGrandson

So now that I am this far, while I wait for the video to upload, I feel victorious and defeated at the same time. I type this from the top of my new workbench…

Watch the video (if you have 3 minutes to spare), I have NO excuse for a deadman and my heart was set on one. The distance from my right screw to the front right leg is less than 24". I have 24" between my screws, why would I need a deadman to support something greater than that, at best I put holes in my right leg to support a piece longer than 24"...regardless…I wanted a sliding deadman (now it would just look dumb and only slide about 8" side to side).

The only other thing that I can think of that would have allowed me to effectively use a deadman is if I moved my twin screw vise to the right side since the top hangs over more on the right side (due to the depth of the cabinet makers vise). *HUGE design flaw (draw more!!!!).*

The blocks that support my vises are not just screwed in (actually they don't have any screws) they are glued and doweled in with dowels at angles to help with the physics of things (I think) so I cannot just take it off and move it…live and learn I guess. This is my first bench and I imagine that it will work great but right now I am a bit disappointed in myself and I think that I will have one more (insert adjective here, i.e., celebratory, defeat, failure, etc., etc.) beer.






After thought, maybe I could make a "floating" deadman off the right side if I really want one (I do) or perhaps extend the block underneath, between the legs (so that it can run the full length between the legs), I guess that it could still help hold things under the vise that way?....

Thanks for all of your help here on the Workbench *Smackdown* forum (sounds rough)


----------



## Sylvain

Grant,
I am glad your problem is solved.


----------



## DanKrager

Not all deadmans were put into the bench. Some, called board jacks, were free standing and could be moved about anywhere. The well designed ones (  sorry, couldn't resist!) fit under the bench somewhere. I've seen pictures of some pretty fancy ones too, but don't ask me where now!
You will have many happy hours at this bench. There's a good chance you will want to change something else later, and if the change is major enough, well, this one could be traded for the next one!
DanK


----------



## Sylvain

look here :

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/37809/board-jack

My great grand father used something like that with his workbench.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jointing long edges of boards, and that jack would get in the way. But if means being able to do the work vs. not doing it on the bench, I'd get used to it.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Neat idea on the free standing board jack. I will be putting that idea on the back burner for now, need to do some other more critical things first. Hopefully tomorrow my friend can help me turn some handles, I have the blanks being glued up right now. Vises close well, my end vise got screwed into my vise a bit uneven which made it not level with the top, I'll show you that neat fix later.


----------



## mochoa

Peep it out. Its my best one yet!









With the little Italian style domed finial (If you remember Jim's video of the Forcola Carvers). 









Yes it looks like kind of like a p#nis, dont be scared embrace it! Lol

Now I need to add the hub.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Wow Mauricio! That looks flawless. Nice man!


----------



## chrisstef

Maur you oughta be proud about that there brother. Flawless is the correct word, +1 ToneLoc.


----------



## lysdexic

Wow Maur. Really, really nice but I am not going to embrace it.

"Its my best one yet!" - how many do you reckon you've made to get to this point?


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice Mauricio… Very nice.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks fellas, you can imagine how few people I know in person that give a shiit about wooden screws. LOL.

You know this one, even though it was my cleanest one yet off the router still took a fair amount of filing and sanding to get it to fit the nut.

Scott, I've chewed up a handfull, it pains me to think about it so I stopped keeping track. However, on my new rig, I've only chewed up one that us unusable. I've got three now that are nice and presentable.
I actually have two decent once that have pitches that wont fit the screws tapped in my bench leg. One of those I will use as a parallel guide for the bottom of the leg vise since they will work with a nut that isn't so thick.

One reject I used for the handle of a mallet which we should be seeing soon. ;-) ;-)

So maybe in hindsight I haven't wasted that much wood. LOL, and the rest of the test pieces burn really nice in my fire pit.


----------



## Sylvain

Looks very good.

Mauricio, if you have too many screws, here is another use ;-)


----------



## BrandonW

Very nice, Mauricio. You're in business now.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The mallet is a reject?


> Huh


??

;-)


----------



## mochoa

Smitty, I should have said beautifully repurposed which is very Smitty'esque. It's also mono toned, good old American wood, different, yet classic. I hope It will be right at home on your bench! ;-)

Thanks Brandon, let me know when you want to upgrade! ;-)

Sylvain, that cider press screw is a beast, it would look sweet on my bench!


----------



## BrandonW

Mauricio, I want an upgrade. Perhaps we can make a trade or a deal.


----------



## mochoa

Brandon, PM Me I'm sure we can work something out. There is still no hub on that one. We could put a beach wood hub on it to match your bench?

I'm going with QSWO on mine (darker tan), against a walnut vise chop… I think I have enough Jatoba left for the garter (I'm thinking round), not sure how that would play though?


----------



## BrandonW

A jatoba garter would be a pretty sweet accent.


----------



## mochoa

Has anyone here ever just used BLO on their workbench? Maybe some wax on the top to prevent glue from sticking?

Also, I'd like you guys opinion on something. Or maybe I'm just thinking out loud and sharing progress on the bench.

I've got my wood for the leg vise planed down on both faces, I netted out to 1 3/4", proportionately it looks ok because my bench is not super big. But for the style of chop I want I think I need to laminate on another inch of wood. The square block of wood above it will be the hub on my screw.

Check it out:

















I'm shooting for style similar the Shaker bench in the Landis book. So I think I need glue on more wood and then shape it. 









Again I'm probably just being too complicated.


----------



## BrandonW

If you want that shape, you'll probably want to start with a thicker piece. That said, 1 3/4 is fully functional I think that's about the thickness of my white oak chop and it doesn't have hardly any flex in it.


----------



## lysdexic

Laminate and go for the aesthetic beefiness that you want. Do it now cuz you know you aren't going to modify it later.

I like the mass and curve of the above chop.


----------



## DanKrager

I like the tapers on the Shaker chop, but I'm afraid your glue lines will show if you don't put the new piece on the inside. ???
DanK


----------



## bandit571

Found at the local Antique Mall….









Afraid you'll have to add your own handle to it.. @ $45, marked down from $50.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks for the real life input Brandon, good to know its strong enough. You know you never did show us the new vise chop?!

Scotty, thanks for the encouragement. I think your right, aesthetical beefiness it is!

Dan, that's exactly what I was thinking. The walnut chop is chocolate colored on the outside but fades into sap wood on the inside (facing the bench), which is nice because if blends into the red oak top. The piece of walnut I will laminate on will be from the same board and will also be the sapwood side so it should blend pretty well.

Bandit, thanks, but that screw hub looks pretty chewed up. $50 for those old screws (in good condition) seems to be the going rate on ebay but I'm good to go in the screw department. I've made my own 2" screw, all I have left is to put a hub on it. That and make a nut for the lower screw I'm using as a parallel guide.

Thanks for all the input Brochachos!


----------



## donwilwol

deadman upgrade (blog)


----------



## BrandonW

For Mauricio










And yes, it's a bit dusty in my garage at the moment.


----------



## donwilwol

Brandon, do you find a need for the hook? Are there ever times it hinders you ( like if you want to put a board out past where it is.)


----------



## AnthonyReed

^ Don is trying to get Smitty riled up. A la crochet.


----------



## donwilwol

I knew it was wrong when I wrote it. I figured someone would correct me. Easy Smitty!!


----------



## lysdexic

I still think about adding a hook to mine so I am interested in Brandon's answer.


----------



## donwilwol

when I plane a shorter board I tend to let it stick out both ends of the vice. It seems the *crochet* would be in my way.


----------



## AnthonyReed

All right, when he gets here and starts trashing the place don't say you haven't been warned.


----------



## ksSlim

Crochet with a side hold down works well for narrow (not very wide) stock.
When I was in Arkansas last, I met with a WW that used a Crochet with 2 posts that "worked like" hold downs.
He set the crochet, bumped it with a mallet, shoved the stock in, bumped the hold down, NO VISE.

Deadman has a use, so does a Crochet. Guest it all depends on the stock we work on.

x2, x4 ,6 , 12, we're all creative. What do you use the most of.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I… Well… The Crochet…. It holds… Uhmmm…

Grrrr….

Oh, just do what you want.

;-)


----------



## BrandonW

I'm somewhat ambivalent toward the crochet. I added it because Smitty really seemed to like his. I use it; it doesn't get in the way. Also, I have a tale vise that I use with shorter boards, so the issue that Don brings up isn't really a problem for me. That said, the crochet was never installed permanently (it's screwed in with wood screws) during this probation period.


----------



## mochoa

Very nice deadman Don! Nice and curvy!

Brandon, at last! Thanks for posting the new leg vise, is that QSWO? I am quickly becoming a huge fan of white oak. I just made my screw hub out of it and I love it. Has that kind quality and feel of beautiful old leather if you know what I mean.

The crochet add a lot of style to a bench I think. So for that reason at least it is a nice add. I think if you're doing a lot of edge planing it could be faster and more efficient than screwing and unscrewing the vise. 
Like this guys:









However, I really like Peter Folansbee's:









I tell you what, I'm really contemplating mortising in a planing stop through the top. It would be so handy for planing thin boards.


----------



## BrandonW

Yes, the chop is QSWO. It took a lot for me to use it as a chop and not make furniture from it. I like the way it looks, though, but wouldn't it look so much nicer with a Mauricio wood screw?


----------



## terryR

Hi guys, I'm popping in to say that I started a bench build in my shop! Lots of you probably already know me…I'm not here to show off…I'm here to learn as much as I can. 

Since I am a beginner woodworker, I'm enjoying Paul Sellers beginner book…never can remember the title…but it's 'Parts 1$2' which basically told me right off I NEED a bench before collecting any more hand tools! I already knew that, but also know I don't have the time or skills to build the workbench of my dreams.

So, here's the small goal I've settled on…with minor size adjustments to be made…










This is Sellers' bench that he uses for teaching his students. Simple. But build-able by just about anyone…even me.

So far, I've been busy cutting and pasting 2×10's into the needed leg components…Here is a shot of the 3×4" legs which received most of their mortises yesterday…










Sorry there's no crochet hook, sliding deadman, tail vise, dovetailed purpleheart, or any bling at all…But I gotta have a bench asap! Hopefully the NEXT bench will be worthy of some awe.

Ohhh…already learned that I can add the crochet hook later…sweet!


----------



## lysdexic

What a show off! :^)


----------



## lysdexic

Brandon said " the chop is QSWO. It took a lot for me to use it as a chop and not make furniture from it."

I have a pang of guilt for using it up so much cherry for my legs and chop. I don't think I'd do it again. I just couldn't help myself.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Terry are you using strictly chisels to do your mortise work?

Thanks again for sharing; love me some workbench builds.


----------



## lysdexic

Terry does that left most leg have a rounded corner?

Also what kind of back saw is that you have?

Oh, I would also object to not having a tail or wagon vise with dog holes. Thus far I have used my wagon vise 10x more than my leg vise.


----------



## terryR

Tony, yeah man, LN chisel and shop made mallet. 4" deep…

Hey, I'm not gonna break this lil 1/2" bevel chisel am I?


----------



## AnthonyReed

Outstanding sir.

I don't think so but put it to the test; i'm good for half on a new chisel if it breaks (i mean it). I'd like to see if it withstands its trials.


----------



## terryR

Scott, that corner DOES look funny…gotta go check it?????

DT saw is 9" Gramercy. Cuts like a dream…too small for my hands, though. I just got a 14" LN rip for the tenon work.


----------



## mochoa

Brandon, Im still waiting for the PM, holler at me man, This is what a wite oak screw hub looks like!


















Man, I paid $85 (sticker shock) for the walnut board I'm using for my chop. But F it, its going to look sweet!

Great to see you posting build picks Terry, its going to be great!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Looking great Mauricio.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Tony, that pic doesnt do the wood justice though, it has a really nice tan tone to it.


----------



## lysdexic

Terry - are you planning a tail vise or wagon vise? I just want to make sure that you have thought it through and its not an oversight.


----------



## BrandonW

M, that's a nice piece of oak. Is it from firewood?


----------



## mochoa

No, Its the stuff we bought a that Guild symposium at the Peachstate lumber.


----------



## lysdexic

"M" - I like that vintage lathe


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Scott! Can I claim its vintage? That makes it sound much cooler than it is. Its an old Craftsman.

It works ok, I'm sure there are improvements I can make if ever learn something about lathes. I dont know why I've been so lazy to learn about them. Its probably because I know the accessories are so expensive.


----------



## terryR

Scott, I'd love to have a tail vice, but it's not in the plans. They look so complex, I assume it's NOT an option that I can add later…However, I have yet to start on the top…so plans are just plans, ya know…

I had thought of just 2 vises similar to the one in the first photo I uploaded (heck, I don't know the correct term for plain old vice)...but placing one on the tail end with lots of bench dogs everywhere. Does that make sense?


----------



## mochoa

Terry, you mean a facevise on the end. Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## lysdexic

Terry - right! I'd give strong consideration to adding a regular iron "face" vice at the end and then a row of round doggies on the front edge. You dont have to have a fancy tail or wagon vise.

I use this function all the time.


----------



## lysdexic

Terry check out Techrednecks excellent bench….


----------



## terryR

Thanks for the advise already you guys! Yep, two face vices is what I had in mind…lined up with lots of bench dog holes…

Like tech's bench above…looks like a nice flat assembly area included!


----------



## SCOTSMAN

I too would like to se a dedicated workbench or combined router table workbench slot here on lj's .Anyway what do you think of my idea of a left facing veritas type pattermakers vice on the front and a wilton vice on the end both of which I now have ( purchased last year or earlier this year I should say.LOL Alistair


----------



## lysdexic

Alistair,

So what constitutes a router bench? Are you looking for a traditional woodworking bench that will accommodate a router and fence? What design aspects need to be taken into consideration?


----------



## lysdexic

Random working the bench pics…..


----------



## Mosquito

Nice frame you've got going there Scotty.


----------



## AnthonyReed

That stack of maple and cherry









sure comes in handy huh?


----------



## lysdexic

Thanks Chris. My main motivation for the pics was to illustrate to Terry the usefulness of the wagon vise and dogs.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, good stuff there!


----------



## lysdexic

It does Tony. It does. You know I have VERY little of that lumber left. I have 2 sticks of the 4/4 boards to the left remaining.

In fact, that (the usefulness) is the point. I am just tickled by the ability to hold a large piece like a picture frame flat, supported and secure. The entire face can be jointed and smoothed without interference.

It is all about work piece holding. Wonderful.

Smit - the pics don't have the aesthetic beefiness, the gravitas if you will, that your pics have had of late.


----------



## AnthonyReed

It is great to see it being used. Pretty damn cool.

Scott is that a 4 or 4 1/2?


----------



## lysdexic

4 1/2 sir.


----------



## waho6o9

Very clean work ScottyB, you're raising the bar and that's a good thing.


----------



## mochoa

Scott, great to see the bench in action man! I miss seeing the blog of the build. Don't let the bench be a stranger. ;-)


----------



## mochoa

Router Bench:


----------



## BrandonW

Nice photos, Scotty.

Mauricio, that has to be the first time I've ever seen holdfasts holding up a router table. Nice fixture.


----------



## mochoa

hehehe, one of the hold fasts holds the router table in place and pins down one end of the fence simultaneously.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, ScottyB, I am sold on a tail vise with dog holes…want a fancy benchcrafted wagon vise, but not for this lil student bench.

Nice frames, BTW. huge! What in the world are you framing?

Still working on my leg assemblies here…cutting tenons today…I guess I should start writing a blog series for my own sake…nice documentation…and maybe some poor sucker who knows less than I will learn a bit? 

Mauricio, that's a sweet set up! And I just love your bench.


----------



## Sylvain

I am a bit late.

a possible solution for the crochet :
http://schoolofwood.com/node/72


----------



## BrandonW

Scotty saw the picture frames I posted on the Handplanes thread, and so he was inspired but decided to one up me again, like he did with his bench. What a jerk.


----------



## Mosquito

that's a nifty solution Sylvain… I kind of like it


----------



## AnthonyReed

I hear ya Brandon. Scottyb Yo has been acting like that ever since Lysdexic left us. I know you have been away recently and i am sorry you had discover the ugly new truth this way.


----------



## Sylvain

Considering that you are never sure all four feets are bearing, 
three of those bed rail brackets (see above) must be strong enough to support the bedding and the (dynamic) load of two adults,
I would think a bed bracket is strong enough for a workbench crochet.

You will notice that Mike Siemsen's crochet was previously bolted to the bench.


----------



## mochoa

Here is the latest on my bench build:
http://lumberjocks.com/mochoa/blog/33538


----------



## waho6o9

Your work bench is the epitome of aesthetic beefiness Mauricio.

The splayed legs and the vice with the hand made screw is incredible.


----------



## RGtools

Mauricio, your bench is looking very stout. I may have to get a screw from you in the future.


----------



## lysdexic

Ryan said: "I may have to get a screw from you in the future."


----------



## bandit571

Here is what I'm dealing with, at least for a few more weeks….









I might need a few more clamps, at least some that WILL clamp and hold.

Wait til Al sees that line…...


----------



## mochoa

Waho thank you sir!

Ryan, holler at me when your ready, I'd. Be happy to. Make you one.


----------



## lysdexic

Another Xmas gift from my wife that I think is best posted here. Lee Valley makes a adapter sleeve that allows the post of a standard bench light fit into 3/4" dog hole.

I know it is not Smitty style. His light rocks. But there is a lot of functionality with the incandescent and fluorescent bulb, adjustable arm, and extra outlet.

I ordered this quite some time ago when the light form them was not available. I just never bought a light.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Oh that is nice. I like that.

Welcome back Lysdexic, missed ya around here.


----------



## RGtools

^ I think I need one.


----------



## lysdexic

Ryan, I am really liking a dedicated light on the bench - task lighting, raking light etc The adaptor is handy because I don't think any clamp that comes with any lamp will accommodate a 4" top. I could be wrong and often am.

Tony, It is good to he back. I missed you guys too :^)


----------



## mbs

*lysdexic* and *Mauricio*

I haven't been following this thread but I noticed you both asked some question about my bench construction quite some time ago. Sorry for the delayed response.

I put some details in "my projects" where you'll find the workbench. Let me know if you have any other questions.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I really like that adapter!!!


----------



## donwilwol

I've been sticking my light in the 3/4" dog holes and popping a shim in. Every time I do I think I need to make an adapter for it. I didn't know these were out there. Thanks!!


----------



## terryR

Awesome toy…ummm…adapter! I need one of those as well. Well, after I finish my bench! 

Quick bench update…I finished both leg assemblies…M/T joints came out nice after adding shims! Photos coming…

However, I have temporarily stopped work altogether…gotta move all bench buikding stuff outta the way for the new 3hp Grizzly table saw coming any day now! Merry Christmas to me! But, the next step on the bench build is ripping many 60" long pieces for the aprons and top…and I'm sure the table saw will speed up my build since I always rip stuff with my bandsaw, and that means more time at the jointer…not any more!


----------



## donwilwol

a new table saw and a new bench. Sounds like somebody is getting serous about this stuff?


----------



## lysdexic

Good for you Terry. Good for you.


----------



## terryR

Just sick of my $99 ryobi table saw…no dadoes, nothing is square, plastic legs…yuck. kinda like a workmate with a motor clamped to it…just dangerous.

I hate to admit it, but I may just buy a router, too, with this xmas money. Never had one…

my power tool only buddy just shook his head in disbelief when I showed him my 'new' Harvey Peace xcut panel saw with pro-sharpened teeth…"How much did THAT cost?" He asks just like SWMBO! But…when I'm dead and forgotten in 30 years time…how much will that circa 1890's HP saw be worth compared to the 30 year old table saw? just sayin


----------



## donwilwol

I don't blame you Terry. I've got 2 routers and a third is on my want list. I understand the guys who have 10 or 15 of them. (power tool guys of course) If I was to run a production shop, that's one area I'd need to upgrade.

There are some things that a routers just do better than anything else. Try to round the edges of a new plane tote without a router (and I know you have). A router is a must have in my book.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Aw, man. I can't Router Bash now that I know Don Yoda has two and wants to increase that total by 50%...


----------



## waho6o9

Congratulations on the acquisition of some machinery Terry.

Looking forward to your projects page as I think it will be getting 
some fine additions.

You make some very interesting spoons and the scroll saw box rocks.


----------



## donwilwol

I'll admit Smitty I use mine a lot less after this purchase.










Terry, I've made many dowels with a round over bit in a router on the router table. 1/2" round over, 1/2" dowel. Seems they would be a start of an arrow, although not necessarily hand made.


----------



## terryR

Nice set of moldy planes, there, Don! 

Lemme know when you get a straight dowel about 33" long out of that router…heck, I'll order them by the dozen from oak, hickory, cherry…

I've had some ol' timers tell me they make arrow shafts using a straight bit in the router, whilst passing the wood by in a jig, and being spun by a hand drill. I may try that one day…perfectly straight grain in the wood usually dictates your results.


----------



## donwilwol

If you rip a piece 1/2" x 1/2", then cut the edges with the router, it should be perfectly straight. I never really paid attention. I've made wooden arrows, but always bought the shafts. Don't they taper to the feathers anyhow?


----------



## terryR

Don, just saying I have had several folks tell me, Oh that should be easy with a round over bit in the router. I have watched while my power tool buddy tried several times…if the grain isn't perfectly straight, as soon as we ripped lumber to 3/4" by 3/4" by 36" long, each piece bent like a cheap aluminum come along.

Of course, that was BEFORE I started buying lumber with straight grain. When I take a red pencil and draw a line following the grain, then slice the wood on the bandsaw along that reference line to roughly 1/2" x 1/2" I have quicker results in removing the excess to create a nice straight shaft THEN, I bet a router would be handy…

Yeah, I taper my shafts towards the point end and the fletching end…saw that on a 300 year old shaft in the Smithsonian…now I like to copy it! Ya know, between making the stone tip, and the wooden shaft, I usually have 20 hours in each one…hard to believe I sell 'em for $20. Even harder to believe some folks complain about the price being so high!

Then again…those store bought Port Oxford Cedar shafts are only $3…

Don, since you are shooting wooden arrows, does that mean you use a wood bow as well?

Heck, you guys get off topic all the time with firearms…imagine a deadly weapon YOU can make in the shop! Nothing like shooting your own arrows with your own bow…or throwing 7 foot long darts with a shop made atl-atl…THAT really makes the hunting traffic slow down as they pass our house, and I'm in the front yard throwing darts like a pre historic hungry man…










an old atl-atl I made from tigerwood and wenge and antler…store bought ash shafts that I fletched. fun, fun, fun! (dart is placed backwards for the photo if that helps any)


----------



## donwilwol

Terry, I have a pile of wood bows in some form of completion. I think they are hanging in my old shop. I've been shooting wood bows for over 40 years, but only started making them about 25 years ago.

I typically bought the shafts, but have made my own arrows forever as well. I even make my own aluminum arrows for the compound.

I haven't shot in a couple of years now. I just don't have time for everything. My target makes a convenient step to reach the ceiling in my old shop, so its not far when the mood strikes.


----------



## carguy460

I would love to build my own bow someday…sounds like we have some resident experts? Any chance for a blog on that?

Dang, I ask alot and contribute nadda…maybe my workbench will happen this year and I can contribute…show step by step how to make mistakes!

Seriously though…I want to build a bow…I have access to plenty of osage (or hedge, or bois d'arc, whatever you prefer), wouldn't that stuff make a good bow?


----------



## wormil

That atlatl looks like fun. I've wanted to make one since seeing them on Top Guns.


----------



## mochoa

Yall here Schwarz is planing on building a portable workbench next? (Andy?)


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Getting closer to being able to post a final project, getting pretty excited to have it done. My in-laws came through and got me some Gramercy holdfasts. I put some leather pads on the bottom of them. I'm having some difficulty drilling my dog holes perfectly straight. They are close but not perfect. I've only drilled about 1/3 of them, any suggestions?


----------



## waho6o9

Awesome looking bench Grant.

HTH


----------



## Mosquito

I've got something similar to the second thing waho posted. It works decently enough, as long as you set it up right. There's a little play in it, but nothing too bad. I got mine from Rockler.

Otherwise, I've alo used methods 1 and 3, and had better luck with #1… Drill a hole through a board taking care for it to be the right angle, and then use that as a guide. I've seen it done with aluminum with great success as well.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Awesome guys, thanks. I found the drill guide attachment at the sears here in town for $27. I think I'll go pick it up. Thanks again!


----------



## mochoa

I did a lot of mine with a bit and brace (the hold fast holes). Used two squares on the bench to sight it for plumb. I also did some with an electric drill and spade bit by eye when I was doing the dog holes. I used the drill on those because there were so many. They all work pretty well, no issues.


----------



## ksSlim

2 locker mirrors taped together @ 90 degrees. Standing upright on the surface.
By glancing at the images in the mirrors, you can tell if your bit or auger is 90 deg to the surface.
I said "locker" mirrors because they're usually made of plastic and are less breakable.


----------



## wormil

Much easier to bore a straight hole with a brace. I can't drill straight with an electric to save my life.


----------



## Mosquito

I'd have to second Rick… Whether it's bit and brace, or egg beater. So much easier to do it by hand for me, unassisted.


----------



## mochoa

Neither dog holes nor hold fast holes need to be dead on straight so dont stress about it too much.

The only issue I have is that some dog holes are lose and some are tight but that's just part of the issue with round dogs. At some point I will make some dogs with wooden springs to help them stay in place and be easier to move.

For now, on the lose holes, I just throw a shaving over the hole and push the dog down over it.


----------



## Mosquito

I haven't mentioned it here, but since this thread has been brought back up…

I ended up ordering a shoulder vise screw from Lee Valley along with the T-bolts I needed for something else. I haven't given up on a more "traditional" wagon vise yet. I figure if all else fails I'll just have to glue in a couple filler pieces to get rid of my screw up, and just go with the surface mount dealy thing a mabob from LV instead…


----------



## GlennsGrandson

The guide worked good. I recently bought some brace bits and have been experimenting with them but I'm not good enough yet. It drills really well then suddenly I'll get part way into a hole and the bit will quit pulling and then I'm fighting it, the smaller bits have worked well for me with the brace. Anyway, a couple pictures of the power option. I put a long dowel in to really get a feel for how straight the hole is. Thanks again for all of the help guys!

Bless this Mess


----------



## mochoa

Looking good Grant!

I've got to get my bench DONE!. I worked on the garter and parallel guide last night…


----------



## Mosquito

I'd say that looks like success to me!


----------



## Mosquito

(we overlapped) 
Nice Mauricio, you need to finish yours so I can look like I know what I'm doing with mine 

I'm thinking I might have to bring the parts for mine back to my apartment, so I can have more time to actually work on it


----------



## mochoa

What part are you working on now Mos? It looked like you were making some speedy progress but then you started messing around with that plane till.


----------



## dbray45

I am rethinking my work bench and would like to know what is a good thickness for the top - in oak?


----------



## mochoa

David, I'd say around 3". Mine (Red Oak) I think is 2.5" over most of the bench and about 3.5" up at the first 4" of the bench.


----------



## mochoa

Of course that depends on the style of the bench and how long it will be.


----------



## Mosquito

David, my bench is being made out of RO, and it consists of a 2.75" thick slab, and a .75" board underneath that (to match thickness of the apron) for a final thickness of 3.5". Though, even the 2.75" slab my itself seemes rock solid anyway.

And I agree with Mauricio, depends on the style and dimensions. Mine is the same style as Mauricio (Splayed leg with tool tray) but on a smaller scale (10.25"x52" top)
-

Mauricio, reason I started work on the plane till was because I've been doing that in my apartment, except the router work I did this past weekend. I only had about an hour or two to work on it before guests arrived, so I didn't really have time to drag all the stuff up for the workbench.

The last thing I did on my bench was cut the straight tenons on the ends of the two stretchers that go from front to back legs. I have to mark and cut the angled tenons for the back legs, and make the mortises for those.

Here's a run down of what I think I have left:

Mortise and Tenon for front-to-back bracesFront/straight tenons cut, need to mark and cut splayed leg end and chop mortisesMortise and Tenon for left-to-right bracesStretchers rough cut to lengthGlue the bottom piece to the slabBottm piece cut to length, and leg slots cut, just have to glue and trim back side/tool tray shelf to lengthCut slots for dog holes in bench topRequires glued up bottom piece. Made a "jig" to accomplish this with the router before the front apron is attachedGlue the front apron to the bench top slabIt's rough cut to size, just need to wait to cut dog holes, and figure out wagon vise implementationEnd caps and tool well apronsCut to size, need to do the groove for tool tray and cover, dovetail and attach to bench topCome up with a wagon vise solutionOrdered the screw…Come up with a leg vise solutionNot there yet…Tool well bottomNeed to decide, and make oneTool well coverNeed to decide, and make one. May be in conjunction with the bottom.


----------



## mochoa

Dang, nice list! How did you do that?

If your bolting on the end caps save yourself some headache, instead of fiddling with drilling holes and putting a nut and washer in there. Do like Derek Cohen did and use a tap and die set to make your own "nuts" out of flat steel bars. It will be much easier to work with. Tap & Die sets are super cheap at HF.

I couldnt find stainless steel barrel nuts so I used SS nuts and washers. They are too hard to get on from under the bench so I've stripped a couple. Had to end up breaking the bolt off on a couple of them.


----------



## Mosquito

By knowing a little HTML  (ok, I know more than just a little…)
It's an html table. But I learned that it has to be really nasty code, all on one line, or it picks up on the carriage returns and puts all that white space above the table…

I think I will more than likely be bolting the end caps on. I haven't figured out what I'm going to do for the nuts, though. I'll have to look into the flat bar as you mentioned Derek used. Depending on the tap size required, I may have one, I've got a few odd ones.


----------



## mochoa

nerd


----------



## lysdexic

LOL

Seriously, I admire your talent Mos.


----------



## Brit

Mauricio - In case Schwartz steal any of my ideas, I want to go on record now and say that my design for my folding workbench is already fixed in my head. I want to make a couple of other things first though.


----------



## donwilwol

my design for my folding workbench is already *fixed* in my head.

Glad its fixed, what was broke Andy.


----------



## ksSlim

Translate to American, fixed= etched.
Hook it Andy, I've a design for a "portable" with a 3" top, 5' long with simple vises and hold downs.
Hang tough, let's make 'em.


----------



## mochoa

Made sense to me Andy, can we get a sneak peek of your design?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Holy Cow, Brandon! You broke some stuff now!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You went 'wide screen' on us!


----------



## mochoa

nerd


----------



## BrandonW

It won't let me edit the post either. That's what happens when I try to type something while watching tv.


----------



## Mosquito

lol what did you DO Brandon! 

Make sure you close your tags? And I don't think it likes the html or body tags

This is what I did:

1test12test2

Gives me this:

1test12test2

The quirk I found is that it has to be on one ugly line like that, otherwise it will add a lot of spaces above it (however many you had inside your table)


----------



## BrandonW

I'm actually surprised how often people break the code on this site. Like I said, I was watching tv. Instead of table tags, I typed html tags on accident. I used to be a web programmer and am surprised that certain tags are allowed to be entered, or aren't stripped before being inserted into the db.


----------



## lysdexic

Not so random Friday night workbench pic. The first time this split has come into play.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

This is what I did:

First Nerd ActionInspired others to mess with the site variablesSecond Nerd ActionBroke the site
[TH]Third Nerd Action[/TH][TD]Fully demonstrated the Monkey-See, Monkey-Do principle[/TD]


----------



## ksSlim

Not bad 
Smitty back to woodworkin'

My Grand kid is already in bed!


----------



## mochoa

Nerd1MosNerd2Brandon
[TR]

Nerd4Mauricio
[TH]Nerd3[/TH][TD]Smitty[/TD][/TR]


----------



## mochoa

Ok that didnt work exaclty right.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, you broke it!!!


----------



## BrandonW

LOL, good one, Mauricio!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

This is not good at all.
.
Somebody needs to call Martin…


----------



## lysdexic

What the hell?


----------



## mochoa

awwwawww, shiiiiiiiit!
brandons fault!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

First Nerd ActionInspired others to mess with the site variablesSecond Nerd ActionBroke the site
[TH]Third Nerd Action[/TH][TD]Fully demonstrated the Monkey-See, Monkey-Do principle[/TD]


----------



## mochoa

do any oh you IT nerds know how to fix this?


----------



## Mosquito

Quick, more posts!

Ok, that seriously made me laugh


----------



## mochoa

we may need to start a new workbench thread. this one is broken.
all I did was put the table code in twice, the preview showed it as two separate tables, when I hit the post button it did something different.


----------



## Brit

At 21:00 hrs GMT, there will be 5 minutes silence for the Work Bench Smack Down thread. May it RIP.

What a bunch of amateurs ) Bloody funny though. I'm still chuckling.


----------



## BrandonW

All we need is a few more posts adn it will go to the next page. Buried under the rug, so to speak.


----------



## BrandonW

Again.


----------



## BrandonW

again.


----------



## BrandonW

Again.


----------



## BrandonW

See? All better. If not, refresh the page.


----------



## Brit

Still laughing at you Mauricio. "All I did was…"

So funny!


----------



## Brit

The 5 minutes silence has now been cancelled.

Let's hear it for Brandon. HIP HIP…


----------



## BrandonW

Thanks, thanks. I'd like to thank all the little people that made this moment possible, but of course the bulk of the praise rightly belongs to me and my multiple posts that saved this thread.

Still, I'm really surprised at how easy it is to insert code and completely destroy the formatting of the page. Alas.


----------



## Brit

Whenever I've needed to post a table in a thread, I've entered the data into Excel, then used SnagIt screen capture software to grab it and save it as a PNG or some other graphics format. Then I load it into the thread just like any other picture. Like this:


----------



## mochoa

wwwoohhh, what a relief! I was waiting for the Feds to come knock on my door for hacking the site.

Glad I could give you all a good laugh. ;-)

Nice pic! I'm saving that!


----------



## donwilwol

see, this is why engineers don't like developers!!


----------



## Brit

You're a brave man Don. Light blue touch paper and stand well back.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Never give an engineer an actual tool; that always causes problems.


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## donwilwol

Now I understand my problem Smitty!


----------



## Mike53E

(preface, please forgive me, my shift key is sticky so captitalization may be inconsitent)
like many others, I'm in the planning stages for my first real workbench which will catapult me from a novice using dry wall screws and duct tape to join pieces of mdf and 2x material to a master worker and handler of the hardest of woods. i've read through this entire thread, as well as a number of the blogs and tangentially related embedded hyperlinks which has provided me with a significant knowledge base, but a number of questions still remain which I would like to submit to the learned masses.
I intend to build a bench out of construction grade 2x SYP to keep costs down and have a work surface that will be softer than any woods of value i may work on in the future. I intend to buy 16' 2×10s then cross cutting and ripping to create the strips for a laminated top. the reasoning behind this is wider and longer boards should have straighter grain patterns and hopefully be easier to work with. legs will be made from laminated 2×6s. stretchers will be made from 2×4s.
this leads to my first few questions: Is my logic for lumber choice of using larger boards and resawing them flawed and simply adding an additional step to the process with out providing any real gains? How long would you let 2x material purchased from a big box store acclimatize before using it, particularly in a laminated top? would the strength of the glue be enough to resist most cupping and warping and hold the top in place? would resawing the boards speed the drying process or would having a smaller board allow it to cup and warp more?
(someone please insert a joke about how long Al has been letting his wood age before beginning construction on his bench here)

design wise, I like the look of the angled legs of the 'nicholson' bench as created by the schwarz but do not like the torsion box top and large front apron. Angled legs seem to give the bench significantly greater longitudinal stability as well as more room to clamp long stock in the leg vice for end grain work without hitting the screw. I intend to connect the base to the top via through tenons (or dovetails on the outermost board in the glue up of the top, depending on how ambitious i get. I've seen a few benchs built with that design feature and felt it to be a nice show off of joinery, although perhaps beyond my skillset since a through joint in the top would have to fit very tightly both for stability and appearance). angled legs supporting a heavy top however provides some additional engineering challenges in keeping the legs from basically collapsing under the weight of the bench top, a few powertools, two midgets, a goat, and a bowling ball (i don't know how you work wood, but when i do it these items are all essential). my primary solution is to rely on a threaded rod running the length of the longitudinal stretcher holding the bottom of the legs together. my concern is whether that threaded rod and the strength of the through tenon would be enough to support the angled legs. should I move the tenon off center from the leg and closer to the center of the bench to have a larger shoulder to counter act the principle forces acting on the joint? should I add an additional longitudinal stretcher at the top to provide additional strength?

Now as far as attaching the top to the base with those through tenons, do you think that they could be fitted tight enough to rely on a friction fit alone in order to allow for disassembly at a later date, or would you not rely on such a joint without glue to lock it into place?

It seems that lumberjock oldwolf has a bench similar in design using angled legs, but being a new member I can not message him directly. He has a couple pictures of his bench on his page under his workshop.


----------



## Mosquito

That totally made my night, by the way lol


----------



## BrandonW

Mike,

I like the idea of taking the wider dimensional lumber and cutting it down to size. Often those wider boards have the pith in the middle, and you can cut that right out. The lumber should be kiln dried, so you shouldn't have to wait for it to dry, but having it acclimated to your shop shouldn't hurt. So, with the angled legs, how do you plan on making the through tenons to attach the top? If the tenons are angled, then the glue is a moot point because I don't know how you'd be able to remove the top with angled tenons, unless the base isn't glued together. If the tenons meet the top of the bench at a perpendicular angle, then the friction fit should be fine, as long as they fit tightly. I think the reason why the English style benches have the large apron on the front is to help the structural support of the angled legs (as well as to have those dog holes for holding up wood for planing). It seems like your design has some added difficulty by not having that large apron, but I think it could be done. I don't have any specific advise on that, however. Do you have a link to that design you liked? Also, I'd love to see a sketch up of what you had in mind, it sounds like a nice build. I, too, never really liked the large aprons on those English benches either.

someone please insert a joke about how long Al has been letting his wood age before beginning construction on his bench here

You're fitting in here quite well already.


----------



## DanKrager

Lots of good questions here for the learned masses. I'm probably not one of them because I haven't built a bench like any of these. However, I like your post and the humor therein!
I've found that most dimension lumber from "the yard" is not as dry as it should be, so the acclimatizing becomes more important. I've successfully selected from their pile boards that are "quarter sawn" by accident. When the mill planks a log, the three closest to center will qualify for quarter sawn, and the next two on either side come close to rift sawn, depending on how big the log was. If you can, select these boards because they will be more stable, especially if you plan to edge laminate them. If you plan to rip them into smaller boards and laminate the faces, you may want to select "the other way" grains (that are closer to parallel to the face). When I made the base for my chop saw, I was lucky to find a 2×12 straight grain with the pith dead center full length. It has not made any effort to distort and has proven to be a good choice for the purpose. 
Re: through tenons that are removable. Kari Hultman (LJ) built a very nice bench using cherry that she disassembles and carries to her sites. She used "loose" through tenon-dovetail combinations for the leg attachment to the base, and she claims to be happy with the result. It does take a mallet to move the joint so she got them fairly tight. SYP might swell and shrink more than cherry, so it's something to consider.
If you can avoid the through rod, I think it is worth the effort to do so. This is going to be an heirloom, a very satisfying one to build! Keep us posted with pictures, starting with "the pile".
DanK


----------



## mochoa

Have you looked at the moravian work Bench?


----------



## Mike53E

mauricio, thank you for the referal to the moravian workbench, I had not actually seen that design yet and i like it definitely food for thought. I liked the idea of symmetrical angled legs, but perhaps having one set of angled legs and one set of vertical legs providing a coplaner end surface could provide aditional clamping options.

Ms. Hultman's workbench is amazing that leg vice chop is a work of art by itself. out of curiosity, what is the advantage of the combination tenon and dovetail as opposed to just one larger dovetail/tenon.

Tusked tenons were my initial consideration for keeping legs from spreading (the only time I've ever tried to keep them from spreading) but i worried it wouldn't be strong enough. 
tenons would be angled to the legs but perpindicular to the top. For that reason i considered using a "standard angle" (60 degress instead of like 1 in 5) for the legs since I figured it would be easier to measure and cut an odd length than an odd angle.

I will try to figure out sketch up today and have something posted tonight, or else make better hand drawn plans and photograph them.

you can see images of oldwolf's workshop here:
http://lumberjocks.com/oldwolf/workshop
you can see the workbench but not too much in the joinery, i like it, but think that i would build it with a thicker top and much thicker legs.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I think this was the thread we were discussing the potential merits of a twin screw vice on the front of a bench. I had to joint a 4' board on the 6' bench this afternoon, and took these pictures.



















If the board were on top of such a face vice, the tote of the plane would have been at my chest line, way high to be effective. Food for thought if you use hand tools to joint edges of boards.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

You can do the same thing on a twin screw face vise…You don't have to use the whole vise. That is why I have 6" to the right of my right screw and less to the left of the left screw. If you have a board jack (on the bench or stand alone) I think that you would be able to do any length of board. I am just using the right side of my vise and my holdfast in this application and it is very rigid.


----------



## alexdom_89

Thought of building a bench but low on funds so I've been gathering parts picked up a dead man


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Grant - Very nice! I don't have that much space at the right end of my bench, but you're solution is certainly effective! I've gone as long as an 8' board in my bench without hitting 'the wall,' that's my limit.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

With Smitty's configuration you will be able to do longer boards with less fuss I imagine. Each vise still has it's applications though. Either route one goes, you really have to do your research and decide what works best for you.

I am not completely done with my bench yet but sometimes I wonder if a leg vise would have suited me better. Ask me in a year. With my setup I can take off my twin screw vise and retrofit a leg vise if I want, and someday I may just to see. One screw is much quicker than two (unless I get around to putting sprockets and a chain on my screws).

8' would probably be to much for the setup that I show in the previous post without the aforementioned jack.


----------



## donwilwol

I've got the twin screw on the end. I think that's were it belongs. I use it a lot, but to be honest I'm not sure I'd do it again for the money. The only advantage is for dove tailing and similar task, and a moxon bench top will probably be better.

I use the bench vice and leg vice the most.


----------



## mochoa

Smitty, big smile on seeing the twisted mallet in the background!

Yeah, old wolf has the Moravian style bench, I agree about making the top and legs thicker.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Don, I wish I had learned about the Moxon sooner. I think anyone building a bench should definitely consider it. You can get the screws for a moxon here shown on the "bench on bench" (kit option), check out the moxon they have while you are on there site.

I can't say that my twin vise screw was very expensive though ($80, maybe, + wood). Check out the 21st Century Workbench by Robert Lang with the twin screw on front (here).

Just food for thought.


----------



## Mosquito

that bench on bench hardware looks useful, especially for that price point…


----------



## Mike53E

Sketch up is still eluding me at the moment, but allow me to revisit a topic here.
What is your opinion of using a face vise as an end vice?
It seems an economical solution face vice is30$ at harbor freight vice a bench crafted wagon vice costing $375. A wooden chop could be installed thick enough to install a dog which could give you much of the same utility.
Does anyone have a face vice on the end of their bench?


----------



## donwilwol

don't buy a $30 face vice, you just won't be happy with it. If its all you can afford, then at least know your going to need to upgrade.

I think a face vice can go anywhere and be functional, but you'll loose the ability to work long boards unless you use a board jack out in now where land. I've had a wilton for sale for a while, and since i can't sell it, I'm looking for a place to mount it. I seem to be able to use as many vices as I have in my shop. I'm always clamping glue ups in them, either so they are held up out of the way, or using the vice as the clamp.

I use my face vice like you describe Mike, even though its on the front, so I don't know why it wouldn't work on the end. I also do the same thing with my twin screw on the end, and if its a single narrow board, I'll use a single peg.


----------



## BrandonW

Mike, that vise from Harbor Freight is a waste of money. I bought it when I first started out and didn't know any better. The threads on that thing are so small that it takes forever to get the vise in position, and the handle is small and uncomfortable. I sold mine at a garage sale for $5.

I used a "front" vise from Veritas/Lee Valley as an end vise. It was a bit more money, but still an economical choice. I think it works great for my operations, in conjunction with a leg vise on the front of the bench.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=31137&cat=1,41659,41661


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Alex, you'll need a bigger vise on your workbench than that one. 

Mike, my end vise is probably a face vise (really not sure).


----------



## GlennsGrandson

This is the one I chose as my "face" vise on the END of my bench, so far so good. plenty of beef, plenty of clamping power, and for the right price. They are nearly identical to the Lee Valley Large Front Vise for $82.50.

Grizzly H7788 Cabinet Maker's Vise $50.95 here


----------



## Mike53E

Brandon thank you for your opinion on the harbor freight vice. That grizzly looks like a nice balance between economy and utility.
I'm about to make a trip to lowes to buy some boards and let them dry while I finish making design decisions.


----------



## BrandonW

That Grizzly vise looks identical to the Lee Valley one-a great price too.


----------



## Johnnyblot

There is a department store that I regularly take a short-cut through- I often stop and 'pretend' I'm looking at the trendy pairs of jeans?
Guys please tell that you see a lovely old workbench and not a pile 'designer jeans'? 
My wife thinks I'm obsessed, but I don't care.



Cheers
John


----------



## lysdexic

Have you found yourself removing the jeans for a better look?


----------



## bandit571

Make them an offer of a NEW table for that "Old, broken-down" one. Tell that old table hurts sales?


----------



## Johnnyblot

*Bandit*- Great idea- thanks. Truth is, the bench was missing recently for a couple of weeks, [they must have been re-arranging stock?]. I thought maybe they were throwing it out??* * then it turned up again covered in even more pairs of jeans. * :-(*

Next time I go through the store- I'll get some more photo's of it- do you think they will object if I throw the pants off the bench first?? 
Maybe I could sell them some shavings?? oh yeah!

Cheers
John


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Man, John, you need to stay tuned in to that bench and store. Spend some time sluething and introduce yourself to the head of the men's department. They turn over displays all the time, and at some point will move that 'table' for something else. That's maybe when he'd call you. Never know! Thanks for the pics, it looks very european with that shoulder vise on the left end. Cool.


----------



## Brit

Nice bench John. Did you ever finish all those saws you bought? I don't think you posted a final photo of them all unless I missed it.


----------



## donwilwol

John, I've taken pictures of benches like that. I had one with some nice tin drawers underneath. I can't find the photo any more.

I did ask, but it was a small shop and the women wouldn't even give me a price. I have no idea what I'd have done with it anyway.


----------



## BrandonW

John, you should just bring your tools to the store and start planing on that bench. That would be hilarious.


----------



## Brit

I'd pay good money to see that.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Found a nice little vise for $10 at the Flea market today. I had to pass as I already had bought a Stanley No 110 block plane for $5.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Question, I'm almost ready to apply my finish to my new bench. What have you guys done, if anything, to the edges of your benches? 1/8" roundover, 45 chamfer, a light sanding, nothing? right now mine is a pretty sharp 90.


----------



## lysdexic

45 degree chamfer, 1/8" wide, on every corner with a block plane. I love putting that little chamfer on.


----------



## Mosquito

Grant, those little vises would go perfect in my shop…









Got those for Christmas from my parents (mother, mostly)
-

Well… I brought all my workbench parts back to my apartment this weekend… hopefully I'll have some more progress


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I think I knocked them down with a sanding block, just a few passes. It may have been a pass or two with the block plane.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Thanks everyone, I knocked them down a bit with my block plane and a touch of sand paper.

Here's the concoction that I mixed up for my bench finish. I've read about it in a couple of places so I'm going to try it. 16oz gum turpentine mixed with 2oz beeswax (shavings) let that marinade until all the wax is dissolved. Then I added 16oz of BLO, shaken, not stirred.

I tried it on a piece of scrap handle cutoff that I had and set it next to an unfinished piece in the picture for comparison. The mixture sure doesn't look pretty but it kicks up the wood a notch. Easy to reapply and supposedly the beeswax helps glue from sticking to the bench, from those accidental drippings. I've heard that it takes a while to dry so I'll check this piece tomorrow.


----------



## chrisstef

Nice finish concoction there Grant. Looks like that mason jar should last ya a little while  That turpentine smell can be pretty strong used alone, did the 16 oz of blo tone it down a little? I had a wax and turpentine mix in the shop and man it permeated throughout the entire house.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

yeah it isn't to terrible. I'll know a little better in a couple of hours. I'm going to go out to the garage (AKA shop) in a bit and do the whole bench. Getting pretty stoked to have it done (so is my wife so she quits hearing about it). I think the I've been working on it since October


----------



## mochoa

Sweet Mos! Love to see all that oak ready to be turned into a bench.

Grant, the bench is going to look sweet with that finish on it. Cant wait to see the big reveal.

I've gotten some more work in on my bench to. Made a vise handle out of a piece of hickory firewood which looks pretty nice, also I'm almost finished making the Jatoba garter for the screw. Stay tuned!


----------



## mochoa

JohnnyBlot, nice to see your around sir. Where so you think these stores get these benches to display in their stores? Those benches dont go for cheap and I find it hard to believe they are paying all that much for display table.


----------



## smokie

This is the bench I made. Money as always was a concern, so I opted out for SPF (Spruce,Pine Fir) 2X4 form the local HD. I did add a trough to the back of the bench but I should have added a ramp on the inside of the trough as dust removal is a bugger.


----------



## mochoa

That thing is sweet Mark. Add a dust riser in. The ones I see on antique benches arent complicated. Just a board with angles cut on each end and nailed in place.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Mark, I agree with Mauricio, just glue up some blocks (or grab a big chunk) and cut an angle on it or hit the band saw and even make a scoop, glue and screw, problem solved.

Boy guys, I just put the first application of finish on my bench and I need to buff it yet but I just can't wait to edit all of my videos and pictures for the final posting. So I'm going to post one (JUST ONE!) sneak peak picture here but when I post the final project (I'll provide a link here) you can all watch the videos. I recorded myself finishing the thing. It's pretty neat to watch in fast forward.

A huge thanks for all of the help I received from this forum, it would not have been what it is with out you guys/gals!


----------



## waho6o9

Looking really nice Grant, congrats!


----------



## chrisstef

Inspiring photo there Grant. Im bouncing work bench ideas around in the old noodle as we speak. Lots to like on yours.


----------



## MrJackson

How has the SPF held up Mark? I'm considering using the same for a bench build.


----------



## mochoa

Great job Grant! I know you must have a grin from ear to ear that wont go away…


----------



## BrandonW

She's beautiful, Grant. Great work!


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Grant! That looks great. Can't wait to see it in action now ;-)
-

So when are we doing the "workbench swap"


----------



## smokie

GG. Out standing job on your bench. I'm looking forward to the videos and pics.

Mr. J. It's not hardwood by a long shot, but it's plenty solid and heavy. I picked HD because all their material is stored inside. You should be able to pick thru the pile and find a bunch of fairly straight ones. I ripped mine full length, taking 1/4" off the top and bottom. Be sure to seal both sides after your glue and screw up.


----------



## BrandonW

A workbench swap? LOL. I'm in.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Thanks everyone!

Yes Mauricio, ear-to-ear pretty much explains it. I just sat there and looked at it.

This Workbench swap sounds pretty risky!!


----------



## Mosquito

Since Mauricio was calling me out for not getting any progress on my bench lately… I brought the pieces back to my apartment, and did a little mortise and tenon action on it…


----------



## Brit

Nice Disston No.4 Mos and nice to see some brace and bit action.


----------



## lysdexic

+1 what Andy said. Also, nice stable of hand saws there Mos.


----------



## terryR

Grant, that's so awesome I can't stop staring at the photo! You've just completed the workbench of MY dreams! When I'm ready for the big one…I'll have to study your build…just awesome…

Mos, I'm constantly blown away by the high level of workmanship you reach…in an apartment! with a workmate! very inspiring, bud!

I'm afraid MY bench build is in total *STOP* mode…I have pretty much had to shove everything to one side of the shop this past week, to make room for a 500 pound table saw installation. Luckily, I'm nearly finished…so I can immediately start ripping 60" long pine for my aprons. Now…I'm getting excited aboit the bench again! More so than the new TS, believe it or not.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Brit, the brace and bit just works better for me, in all honesty. I can hold an angle much better with that than with a powered drill. Had an issue with the bit falling out, from time to time, though. Any suggestions on that?

I don't believe it's a Disston, per-say, as the spine isn't stamped, and it's just an eagle medallion. Maybe another Spear & Jackson?
Here's the one above: 









And a Spear & Jackson I picked up a while ago:








-

Thanks Scott, finding a better place to store is next up after the handplane till..
-

Thanks Terry, I'm hoping that "with a workmate" part goes away sometime in the not too distant future


----------



## AnthonyReed

Looks great Grant. I'm happy for you. Congrats!

Right on! Mos is back at it.


----------



## ksSlim

Has anyone used this "portable" bench from blum tools?
http://www.blumtool.com/pages/benchhorse.html


----------



## mochoa

Woo hooo, Like to see the progress Mos, keep it comming. Or as Smitty once told me "Push through, you'll be happy when its done" or something to that effect.


----------



## lysdexic

Ks,
Nope, but that is a great portable bench idea. Looking at the face vise, even if your board width is in between holes and the pipe clamp won't reach, you could just use a clamping caul. That way you effectively have a Moxon-type vise.

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## mochoa

I think Mos almost bought one of those.


----------



## Mosquito

I was close… I e-mailed the guy about shipping, and he said he was at a conference out of town and would get back to me the following week. That never happened, so I left it at that… 
-

Mauricio, I got the tail-vise legs both mortised last night, I was going to save it for my update once I get the other one done (hopefully tonight) But I'll cave:


----------



## AnthonyReed

So great Mos.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Check it out!!!



Thanks everyone!


----------



## mochoa

Mos it looking great man! I can smell the oak through the picture. mmmmm….

Did you have any issues cutting the legs all even?


----------



## mochoa

Grant it came out great man. Congratulations!


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Grant!
-

Mauricio, I used a buddy's miter saw, and I very nearly screwed them up… First time I marked the first leg it was an inch off. That was several weeks before I went to his place to cut them, so I fixed it. Then once I was there I cut the first one, and as I was about to cut the second I thought, "Since I screwed that up on the first one, I'm going to double check this one" so I measured, and sure enough, I had botched that one up too…


----------



## Mosquito

I should mention the ones I almost screwed up were the splayed legs


----------



## mochoa

That would have seriously sucked. I didnt leave my rough length long enough to account for the loss in vertical distance due to the splayed leg. I eked out enough height just barely.


----------



## mochoa

Mos, by the way good idea beefing up the front edge and making the tenon longer to fit past it.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, I had to do some double and triple checking with the back legs… to make sure I didn't do the same lol



> Mauricio:
> Mos, by the way good idea beefing up the front edge and making the tenon longer to fit past it.


Hmm?


----------



## mochoa

Isnt the front edge thicker than the rest of the top?


----------



## Mosquito

Oh, yeah, for now it is. Once this piece gets attached to the bottom it won't be, then the whole thing will be the same thickness:


----------



## mochoa

Oh, now I get it. I wasnt understanding what that piece was for last time I saw it. Now it makes sense.


----------



## BrandonW

Nice Mos. That's looking to be one mighty fine bench. I wonder if you'll finish yours before Mauricio finishes his?


----------



## Mosquito

it serves 2 purposes
1.) Make the top the same thickness as the front (3.5" thick)
2.) Provide a ledge for the tool well bottom to sit on, so I could hit my target depth for the tool well. Otherwise I'd have to put a groove in the slab, and even with 1/4" plywood I'd only get 2" depth at most. Not quite enough to lay a #4 1/2, #5 1/2, #6, #7 or #8 on its side


----------



## mochoa

LOL, Brandon. Your tempting me to put up a pic of my semi completed leg vise ahead of my next blog entry. But I'm not taking the bait.


----------



## BrandonW

bite the bait.


----------



## Brit

Mos - I can see your backsaw isn't a Disston now I look closer. I take it the second one you posted a photo of with the open tote actually says S&J on it somewhere yes? I wasn't aware that S&J used the Warranted Superior medallions. However, when they started buying up other saw companies, they did make quite a number of second lines to showcase the saws of the companies they'd acquired and your saws might be from one of those lines. I'm gonna have to do a bit of investigating now to see what they are. I'll get back to you.


----------



## Brit

Yeah bite the bait Mauricio. If you didn't dabble so much in html, you'd have had it done by now. )


----------



## mochoa

Actually the only thing I have left before assembly is shaping the vise chop, and making a lower shelf between the stretcher. I'm thinking I might leave the shelf for later though.

Ok, here's one for my buddies. I'm light on process pics so I don't have a lot of pics for the next blog. 









Andy, dont worry my hacking days are over. LOL.


----------



## BrandonW

Wow, that's a huge chop. How thick is that thing?


----------



## mochoa

Around 3in? I need. To lighten it with the shapping.


----------



## ksSlim

Very nice.


----------



## lysdexic

I knew you'd bite Maur. Very effective jab there Brandon.

Nice chop Mauricio. I think you made the right decision to laminate it. Nice mass.


----------



## BrandonW

Mauricio, your entire bench looks really beefy in that photograph. When can I come over and use it?


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Mauricio!
-

Andy, nope, I guess I lied. It just says Jackson. Well, full it says Warranted Cast-Steel with Jackson in an arch between the two


----------



## chrisstef

Chopfrigginlicous Maur.

GG - good show brother.


----------



## Johnnyblot

Mos- I know I'm way way back of beyond on this one, but why have you splayed the rear legs on your bench?

Cheers
John


----------



## BrandonW

Because he wants to be like Mauricio.


----------



## donwilwol

he can't make a straight cut so the crocked legs hides it better?


----------



## donwilwol

Question for you guys who have had a workbench for a while. Does scratching, dinging or otherwise marking up your bench bother you? Did it the first time?


----------



## BrandonW

Don, for the most part they don't bother me because it's a workbench. I'd probably cringe a bit if I had a big gouge in it or spilled a bucket of red paint on it etc., but at the same time I love it when the bench looks like it is actually being used a bit. That said, I don't go out of my way to make it look used.


----------



## mochoa

Im a sucker for good jab. Thanks guys, the vise if fully put together, there are just a couple of tweaks I need to make so it runs smoothly.

Don, I like the well used benches as well. I havent even finished mine and I've already put dings in it since I'm already using it.

Oh and I just tried to move my deadman, its locking up at the top. Seems my bench shrunk up on it a little.


----------



## lysdexic

Timely question Don. I noticed a deep scratch going across the top of mine just this weekend. Right there in the middle. I have know idea how it got there. It looks lonely. I welcomed it and thought, he will have company soon enough. Let the patina begin.

That said I did order a custom 3/4" glass top. Do you know how much a 87" x 24" x 3/4" glass slate costs these days? Its crazy. :^)


----------



## Mosquito

lol I like Don's answer better…

It was because I was basing it off of the french bench that Roy built in the woodwrights shop. Having a small (at best) spare bedroom as a workshop, I a smaller bench. The splayed legs are for the added stability. The slab that I had was only 9" wide, so straight legs would probably have had issues with that, especially since I wanted the tool well.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

RE: Don's question. I guess it doesn't when all is said and done. Used to, not anymore.

My benchtop is not perfectly flat, and the low 'middle' has several layers of Watco finish that is darker than the front edges; those edges have been smoothed a few times. Once in a while I'll hit areas of the bench with the #4 1/2 in an effort to connect the high spots and ultimately flatten the top over time.


----------



## mochoa

;-)


----------



## Mosquito




----------



## lysdexic

Don, I am curious as to why you asked about the benches.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Mos I really admire all of your hand tooling and doing whatever it takes to get it done (working in the apartment)! Keep up the good work.


----------



## donwilwol

Scott, no real underlying agenda. I'm just curious. When I make a shop tool, I want it to look good, but not to good. I see some benches that look so good, they should be in the house, not the shop. I'd still beat the crap out of them.

Its kind of like buying a never used tool and never using it. I can see it for some things, but a bench? Not so much. I'm a vintage guy, I like my stuff nice, but with obvious signs of use. I honestly misuse my bench, but it was built to take it.

Its like the guy with a heavy duty 3/4 ton truck who won't throw anything in the back because the bed liner might scratched!


----------



## mochoa

Grants bench has spaces between the shelf boards which makes a lot of sense because you dont get shavings accumulating down there. I wonder why thats not more common?


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Grant. Can't stop me! 
-

Mauricio, I noticed that too, and if I were to do a lower shelf on a workbench, I'd probably do the same thing. It's not so much for the shavings/dust aspect, but more so by the fact that I don't like lower shelves being solid. I just don't like the look as much, personally.


----------



## BrandonW

You guys are all wrong. Just look how beautiful that looks:


----------



## mochoa

it does look nice and I have some more oak I could use up which is a plus. also Brandon left some space for dust clearance on the ends.


----------



## BrandonW

To tell you the truth, I haven't seen my shelf since I built the thing almost a year ago. I'm very limited in storage space and so I have a bunch of wood stored there.


----------



## AnthonyReed

That chop is great Mauricio but it is eclipsed by the awesomeness of that wood screw and hub. I know i said it before but that is so damn cool !


----------



## mochoa

thanks Tony!


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Yeah Mauricio is right, that was the design idea behind the slats/spaces. I also do not like the looks of a solid shelf for some reason or another. And you save on wood. Someday I'd like to add a couple of small drawers for bench dogs and what not. I like my dog design/ideas, I'll get them up here sometime in a week or two.


----------



## mochoa

What if I spaced the slats 3/4" apart so they also serve as slots for sorting jigs vertically?


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Sounds like a great idea, multifunctional spaces!


----------



## Johnnyblot

Hi- *Mos*- Thanks for the reply. I was just wondering if the splay has any real advantage? I must say that I worked on a David Charlesworth style bench- with rear legs [slightly] splayed. This one [or its twin brother] 
http://www.davidcharlesworth.co.uk/images/Bench.jpg!









The legs etc. are Iroko and the top is African *?* [a cheaper type rosewood I think- I'll have to check in his 1st book]

It was a great bench to work on- but I believe [couldn't swear on it] David does not bother with the splayed legs any more. I guess the mass is sufficient to keep it put?
One thing I liked about this design is that the tool well is in sections[?] so they can be slid aside so you could clamp stuff, especially the shooting board. Very simple and effective.

Lie Nielsen did a version at one time.
Some day I'll do a version of this, only 2' deep, to fit my small shop.

As your bench is narrow you might wish to incorporate some kind of hole/gap at the back so you can clamp your shooting board- by it back edge /stop [can't think of a proper name].

It is truly a *fine *bench you have there {*Mauricio *too]. I take my hat off to you sir for producing such a fine piece of work. I do understand your constraints- I gave up 1/3 of my garage to install a utility /laundry room for the Missus a few years ago. If the cat was to come and visit me, I certainly couldn't 'swing it'


Cheers
John


----------



## mochoa

Thats a sweet bench Johnny. I've seen it somewhere before but I didnt know it was David's bench. What do you mean by clamping your shooting board? Any shooting board I have seen just uses a cleat to hook to the front of bench.

I think your right that with a massive bench the splayed legs dont add much value. But with a smaller bench it makes a huge difference. Mine is assembled right now with no glue or anything and it is very solid when pushing across the bench as with cross grain planing.

I'm going to have a gap between the tool well bottom and the bench top that I can use for clamping. I think I'm going to leave it open since I have not had an issue so far with tools falling through the gap.


----------



## Mosquito

That looks like a nice bench Johnny. I would agree with Mauricio, it probably makes less difference on a heavy bench, but I can still pick mine up, so it's not all that heavy. The top is only 9" wide, so I'm pretty sure if I were to have straight legs, any catch on cross grain planing would send it over… For clarification, my bench is only 51" long too.

For the tool well, my plan was to make the bottom in 3-5 pieces (depending on how you look at it). 3 flat pieces that are narrower than the length of the tool well. Then I'm going to have "dust ramps" with pieces on the bottom to fill the gap left by the other three bottom pieces, to "lock" them in place. I need to get a drawing of that… I don't want to take the time to type out an accurate description lol


----------



## Mosquito




----------



## chrisstef

Well gang im really starting to seriously toss some ideas around and pick the style of bench i would like to build. I like the french style and want to go wagon vice and shoulder vice. Very much like this bench.










The base looks a little short to me like it should be longer or the leg on the end behind the wagon vice should be off set.

Talk to me about what you guys see as flaws and as things that stand out with the functionality of the vices in particular. I know that the shoulder vice needs to be wider without a doubt.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm going off of research that I've done, and not experience here. If you do a lot of hand cut joinery (dovetails, etc) then the shoulder vise would be great. If not, I'd feel like a leg vise might be more useful. Or a face vise. It's hard to say, really lol

I found a lot of information in Chris Schwartz's book about workbenches. I bought a digital copy, because it was cheaper.


----------



## chrisstef

Mos - ive got schwarz's book but i kinda drifted off when he got into ranking vices for different applications. Im 80% on this style. I havent done any hand cut tails but i would really like to. Edge planing long stock i would employ a sliding deadman … I think.


----------



## donwilwol

I just don't get the advantages of a shoulder vice. I'd beat you with a stick before I'd trade my leg vice or my front vice for a shoulder vice.

Other than its traditional, why did you chose a shoulder vice, (and i'm not suggesting its wrong for you, just saying it wouldn't work for me. I don't think, I've never tried one.).


----------



## chrisstef

It honestly could be aesthetics Don i wont lie i think its cool. I might be ignorant to the benefits of a leg vice. Actually i am. Talk to me about the leg vice.

Edit - or you could tell me to read a book and id be cool with that too


----------



## donwilwol

It the one the infamous Smitty uses. And actually I got my leg vice screw from Smitty. They come in all shapes and sizes, traditional (from Mauricio wood screw to the new fangled auto working leg vice from the boatman

They are also traditional, work well for planing, have powerful holding power. I consider it one of the best upgrades I've done to my bench. I'm still going to put the wheel on my if my larger bits ever arrive from HF.

Brandon has a very nice one as well.


----------



## chrisstef

Thanks for the info Don. Much appreciated. Ive got some reading to do.


----------



## Mosquito

lol Steff  Dinner was ready, and I don't have any experience with them, so I ended my post where I was, which was mentioning the book 

I am sold on the idea of a shoulder vise being good for end grain joinery, because you [can] get the wide clamping surface unobstructed vertical capacity of a moxon vise, but not have to fuss with the twin screws. Other than that, I'd rather have a Leg vise myself.

I like the extra depth that the leg vise can allow me, and the holding power that Don mentioned. I have a workmate, so I'm sure I could make a moxon work for me, because that's essentially what it is, but with a smaller bench like mine a twin screw/moxon would use up a lot of space, and shrink the edge planing capacity with out an external means of holding the far end of the board.

Wagon vise, though, I agree with. I like the wagon, and chose it because I didn't have the room to do an end vise on mine. I was also hoping the wagon would be cheaper, and easier to implement, especially on a small scale like my bench.

Hope that helps a little more


----------



## mochoa

Mos the tool well idea sounds pretty good.

Here are a couple of more advantages I think the leg vise has:
-You can clamp a long board for dovetailing right next to the screw which you cant do with a face vise. 
-Most small dovetail work can be clamped directly in line with the screw which no other vise can do (except for a shoulder vise). My screw is 8" down from the bench top which is pretty deep. 
-Depending on how long your screw is you can clamp very wide pieces (front to back)
-Also its the cheapest of all the vises. Unless you go benchcrafted.


----------



## mochoa

Carter has a leg vise, shoulder vise, and a traditional German style end vise. He says he uses the German end vise the most.

After using my wagon vise I can understand why one of those German style ones would be so versatile. You can use it to clamp a small board in pretty much any position. Vertically parallel to the bench, vertically perpendicular to the bench, flat on the bench in any direction. Just has a lot of uses. I think that's why the German benches can get away with the gimpy shoulder vise as the second vise.

Also, if you're doing your jointing on a power jointer then the long board jointing limitation is probably not that big of an issue.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

+1 to Mauricio and Don re: leg vises. They are, quite simply, the bees knees for workholding. Totally blown away when mine came on line… So simple… Who knew?? How come nobody knows about these?? Seriously, it was that amazing to me, only avout four years ago… Gosh, I'm still such a noob…


----------



## mochoa

Smitty, now one know about it because there was no money in it. The industry had no interest letting you know you could make a vise for $30.


----------



## donwilwol

an exceptionally good vice for $30.


----------



## chrisstef

I like expectionally good vices for $30. Like i said this bench is still very much in its infancy and i havent done a ton of research but all the info i can get is appreciated. I guess that a leg vice can do anything that a shoulder vice could do and then some. Im all about versatility. Now if work would slow down a little bit i could actually do some reading.


----------



## terryR

...you mean I could add a leg vice to my bench as a retro-fit?

or even now that the legs assemblies are complete, and I'm about to start apron work?


----------



## donwilwol

I retrofitted mine. It took a little ingenuity, but it works great. http://lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/29410


----------



## lysdexic

Terry as long as the front surface of your leg is flush with the front of your top. Actually, even that is not absolutely critical but your clamping surface will be limited to the depth of you top/apron.


----------



## donwilwol

mine is not flush, and as Scott said my clamping surface is limited as you can see, but I haven't seen any problem with that what-so-ever. As long as you don't have a 2" apron. I wouldn't bother if you don't have a reasonable apron width.


----------



## terryR

Great news! Nice blog, Don…thanks. 

My aprons are 2×13x60". Sounds Like I have some re-planning to do BEFORE any vice is purchased…

carry on…


----------



## Mosquito

what about just laminating another 2" piece to the leg vise-leg, that way it's flush with the apron? Or would that not look right enough…


----------



## lysdexic

Chris- that is also a very practical solution.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Think of the aesthetic beefiness that would be added with that approach…


----------



## mochoa

Thats a good idea, just beef up the front leg.

Also make sure bench is desinged in away that the leg vise doesnt push the top off of the base.


----------



## mochoa

Yes, excellent point that should not be overlooked Smitty! ;-)


----------



## lysdexic

Another detail to mention. When I added to leather (it is 1/8" thick or so) to my chop that compromised the whole flush surface concept. Now my clamping surface is limited to the surface area of the leather. Neither good or bad as I can yet tell. Just something to note.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

As long as you're not clamping long items vertically as part of a glue up (for example), the leather shouldn't be an issue. How thick was the piece you added, lysdexic? My vice area is hit with scrap from a green leather sofa that landed curbside. A nice scavange job for shop material, I might add. That thing gave me strop leather, too…


----------



## lysdexic

It is not a issue at all, that I have noticed. I have just observed that when clamping with the leg vise, it is the leather that is actually contacting the work piece and not the full surface of the chop.


----------



## BrandonW

Scott, don't be cheap. Cover that whole leg vise with leather.


----------



## mochoa

Smitty I have some thick leather scraps from the craft store. Its not suede leather. Did you put the rough side or the smoth side out?


----------



## lysdexic

Sorry Brandon, but I ran out after sewing together my leather chaps.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I glued smooth side to the chop and to the bench edge / leg. About five inches down from the top, the width of the chop. Contact cement, and it's doing just okay but will need another application someday soon (edges take abuse, fray loose).


----------



## BrandonW

The smooth versus rough side is an interesting question. I prefer to glue the rough side to the wood and leave the smooth side for contacting the piece of wood. I don't really have a good reason other than that's my preference and that's what I did with my vise. This is a regular piece of leather, around 3/16" thick. And yes, contact cement is the way to go.


----------



## mochoa

I think either would grip the work piece very well. I almost bought some suede leather but it was so thin compared to the thick stuff I already had so I think it will work better.

I've been clamping stuff in my new leg vise with non slip drawer liners and it crazy how well it clamps. I can move the whole bench and not budge the piece.


----------



## Sylvain

homage to

the humble leg vise

made by a workbench/vise manufacturer.


----------



## AnthonyReed

None of that causes an issue when utilizing the deadman? Using just the apron or a beefed-out leg does not pull the work out and away from contact with the deadman?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I haven't seen a deadman on benches that don't have legs flush with the edge of the top, but I guess it's possible. A deadamn supports / anchors work on the right, when otherwise held on the left with face or leg vise. Should be on the same plane, right?


----------



## donwilwol

I haven't seen a deadman on benches that don't have legs flush with the edge of the top

Just look at mine.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Wouldn't the deadman have to set back from the face of the apron? What would be the support at the bottom if the top of the deadman were flush to the apron?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, well, sure. There's Don Yoda's…

Who better to answer Tony's question, then?


----------



## mochoa

Smitty, I think you hurt Don's feelings. How could you have forgotten about his floating deadman?


----------



## AnthonyReed

Oh, okay so no support on the bottom, it hangs from the apron. Got it. I was having issues visualizing it. Thanks guys.


----------



## donwilwol

I don't think I understand the question. Isn't the face of the deadman always flush with the apron?


----------



## donwilwol

I think you hurt Don's feelings.

Don's weeping in the Tampa airport!!!


----------



## bandit571

If you build out the bottom to flush with the apron above, and just add a track for the deadman to ride on…..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Maur, you're right. I may have, and I did… Not the way to run a Thursday, by any stretch…


----------



## AnthonyReed

I had forgotten how your deadman was attached Don. I got it now. Thank you.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sorry, Don Yoda!

EDIT: It appears his is flush, because it indeed floats. I'll go look for myself (again).


----------



## donwilwol

Tony, I didn't understand Wouldn't the deadman have to set back from the face of the apron

I don't think that would be good, but maybe I'm missing something. I haven't left the eastern time zone but still feel a little jet lagged.


----------



## AnthonyReed

I understood that not being coplanar with the apron face would be bad, my question was poorly worded. I was thinking that the only option was for the deadman to ride on the stretchers between legs and because of that it would be positioned behind the apron face.

The problem was that my little monkey mind had failed to retain how you attached your deadman with its base supported/running on the ground.


----------



## Johnnyblot

Mauricio- this what I meant by clamping your shooting board- I took this from his 2nd book [but don't tell anyone)









this view is with the tool tray sections removed. It clamps the shooting board firmly in place which stops it moving at all whilst in use.

cheers
John


----------



## donwilwol

When I started researching for mine, I found a lot of ways to go. Mine wound up the way it did through a total sequence of no planning. It is an argument for thinking ahead.


----------



## mochoa

Charlsworth has a lot of unique ideas I dont see anywhere else. I may have to check out his books.


----------



## Johnnyblot

Some more photo's of the 'Department Store Bench'




































Cheers
John


----------



## Johnnyblot

I wouldn't be without Charlesworth's books, they are a great read and are a huge resource of information.

Cheers


----------



## Mosquito

"if I buy all the pants that are on this bench, can I have the bench too?"


----------



## mochoa

Johnny you need to go liberate that bench some kind of way. I say if he wont sell it to you for a reasonable price your going to have to take drastic measures! You just cant leave it there to rot away.


----------



## terryR

Random Saturday Shot









Playing around with a couple of hand planes while removing the planer marks from apron #1…apron #2 in the glue and clamps now…

I really like this new green 'bench' I'm working on today…just don't set tools on it!


----------



## chrisstef

Man thats lookin good Terry. Youre a man on a mission friend.


----------



## bandit571

Well until my normal bench shows up (tomorrow, I hope) this will just have to do….









piece of Oak 4/4×6 x48" clamped in my vise. Needed to try some bigger planes out…









like a #6c????


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Terry. Now that I'm mostly done with the plane till, I'm going to have to get back to work on my bench so you don't finish yours before I finish mine


----------



## terryR

Just saw the plane till…
WOW!

Don't worry, Mos, I've got mortices coming up…that will slow me down.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Terry. After finishing the plane till (and a shelf) I have resumed work on my workbench.

Last night I cut the dovetail on one end of the tool tray pieces









This afternoon I did the other


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Great dovetails!

Keep plugging away!


----------



## Mosquito

Pegged my stretcher tenons tonight too


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, that's some good looking work! Nice effort, Mos. Well done, and I'm sure it feels good to get that behind you. Now for the other legs?


----------



## bandit571

Didn't get the bench today, was raining and the truck is just a pickup truck with an open bed. I did get two saw horses, three 2x planks, a 4' x 4' legless table ( guess what them horses will carry) some electrical parts, and some other parts. Might get SOMETHING put together over the next two days. Weds. & Thurs, going to be "Poked & Prodded" and will be within a mile of a H-F store. And, not get to go in it…....

Normal luck.


----------



## Mosquito

They're actually all pegged It was "fun" boring through that 6" wide leg… Pegs are all left long for now, so I can take them apart and hit it with some glue later. Overkill, probably, but I'm ok with that


----------



## terryR

Mos, sweet work! I hope you live in the downstairs apt!

pegged tenons of that size? overkill? hell yeah…But, I love it, man!!!!!!!!!!!!

I finished both of my aprons this weekend, 2×12.5×60". I cut one of them to length with the new table saw…too much work since the piece was so large. I cut the 2nd with a circa.1890 Harvey Peace…much quicker! Although, to be honest, the table saw left a much cleaner cut. bummer.


----------



## BrandonW

Love those pegs, Mos. It's turning out to be a pretty sweet bench.


----------



## lysdexic

I hope you can get those pegs out.


----------



## AnthonyReed

It's looking good Mos!


----------



## Mosquito

Nope Terry, I live on 3rd floor (of 3 floors). Vaulted ceilings that way. I'm just mindful of what I do, when, and for how long…

Table saw may have left a cleaner cut, but that gave you a reason to use the handplanes more ;-)
-

Thanks Brandon.
-

Scott, I should be able to, if not, I'll just pound then flush, and then use some scrap/spare dowel (smaller) and pound them all the way through. It's not a hugely tight fit, and they're not draw-bore, so it shouldn't be an issue.
-

Thanks Tony


----------



## DanKrager

Yes, nice work. You can tell because it inspires people!
DanK


----------



## terryR

Double post…

Harvey Peace P37 sizing bench aprons instead of table saw…









This 500 pound table saw makes such a good bench…just don't lay the tools on it!


----------



## mochoa

Mos, slow down man your making me look bad!


----------



## mochoa

Sneek peak of my bench build:


----------



## Mosquito

Well, Mauricio, I'm going to cut dovetails in the front apron piece and the end caps, then maybe do the cross brace between left and right legs, but after that I'm going to have to get some time at my parent's place to do a few other things by means of power tools. A stopped groove in the rear tool well, among other things.

I also need to figure out how I'm going to clamp the bottom piece to the slab tight enough to not have pockets that don't bond together in the middle. I'll probably have to trim the back of the bottom piece to size as well, which I don't really want to rip all that by hand in my apartment. Poplar and mahogany I'll do no problem, but oak is a little harder, and a little more noisy…

I've got a shoulder vise screw from LV that I got thinking about trying to fit as a wagon vise, but the more I look at it, there's just not that much room there, so I'd have to do some funky trickery to get it to work, and I'm not sure how yet. Starting to go back to the idea of an inset wagon from LV instead… 
-

Nice chop Mauricio, and good to see the new #62 in action


----------



## mochoa

Mos, I would just clamp it wherever clamps will reach then use screws as temporary clamps while the glue dries then pull them out so they doing interfere with any holes you will drill later.

On the wagon vise, the screw can be longer than needed you will just have to make sure there is room for it under the bench. You'll see that my screw is a lot longer than I needed.

The #62 worked ok but I still don't feel very balanced with it. I'm still getting a hang of the full fisted grip. In the end is was my trusty old #4 that finished the job. I was thinking of Paul Sellers the whole time.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

+1 on the screws for clamps. Pre-drill your doubler piece for clear pass-through of wood screws, apply glue and screw, then remove when all is set and done…

Keep working with that #62, Maur, and you'll grow to love it. Took awhile to realize how agressive I could be with it (diagonals, cross grain, thicker shavings, etc) and still get good results. Once I got comfortable, though, it became a 'go-to' tool (with all respect due to Mr. Sellers).


----------



## mochoa

PS doesn't bad mouth the low angel planes, he is just all about the simple #4. Also in his video on making a box he does a round over with his #4 that reminded me of the operation I was doing on the Chop.

Smitty, I remember you saying how you warmed up to it so I'm sure I will, heck I haven't even honed it yet. I'm still working with the factory edge!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, I know Paul's philosophy. And he truly walks the walk. Love that guy and his dedication to simple (and limited) tool selection. His approach is one I'm feeling a pull towards lately. In other words, I don't use (nobody does, really) each plane in the bench series one through eight. Do I want to keep them all? I have a bench cabinet, a tool chest and (soon) a wall-hung tool cabinet. If what I have to build 'stuff' doesn't fit in those three combined, I have a too much and need to divest.

Exceptions? Yes. Like the saw till and clamp rack. But I hope you get what I'm saying.


----------



## mochoa

I hear you Smitty.

By the way Smitty, I don't think you have ever shown us what's inside your bench cabinet. What tools do you keep in those drawers an in the big cabinet?

I was thinking of keeping my bottom shelf open for shooting boards and bench hooks and such.


----------



## lysdexic

I get what you are saying. However, you still need to experience different tools before you can realize which get the job done for you. It's like the advice your dad gave you but you still have to figure it out on your own. In both situations, the experience often is not cheap. I will divest one day as well. I am hoping that one day, someone will come along with similar interests to which I can donate a few tools. Maybe my daughter.

Btw, if memory serves, PS's cabinet is full of hand planes.


----------



## bandit571

But, what happens when you have three of each? Well #4s at any rate? Been using the Jacks and the DE#6c a lot lately, haven't done much with the #7. Love the #3s. Block planes? I ahve to keep them seperated, them tend to mutiply if I turn my back on them…..

Main Bench didn't arrive yesterday. A few other items did, so, after a few phone calls ( to wake up a Doctor's office) i might hobble down and make…....SOMETHING that MIGHt even look like a bench, if you don't look to closely….

Two saw horses, three wide 2x planks (long ones, at that) some wiring supplies( goodbye E-cords) and a 4' x 4' table top ( no legs) to sit some power toys on. Wonder IF I could convert that table top into a till of some sort…........

Gotta go, things to do, people to see, places to go…. (IF I remember that old line…)


----------



## bandit571

Anyway, it has got to be better than this…


----------



## Mosquito

I think I might have to do some more thinking (probably out loud here) about the wagon vise and bench dogs. I apologize in advance, as this will likely get long in a hurry lol.

-
Originally I was going to use square dogs with the front edge 1.5" away from the front of the bench. 
Why 1.5" and why square? 
1.5" from the edge because that's the thickness of the front apron. 
Square because then I can use the router and a jig I made to cut the dog holes before attaching the front Apron. No mortise chopping that way. Should be quicker, and more accurate that way.

BUT, because of that, I only have about 11" between the end of the bench, and the right leg. In order to use a larger screw I'd have to drill a hole through the legs tenon from one side to the other. Not really something I want to do.

If I move the dogs back another 1.5" (3" from the front) there will be enough clearance to have a long screw go behind the leg, but then that's 3" from the front, and since I like my #45, and also have a tendency to use narrower stock, I wanted to keep the dogs closer to the front.

That brings me back to the inset vise. It would work well in this situation, as much as I'd prefer a more traditional style wagon vise.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

RE: The advice your dad gave you that had to be figured out… Very true, can't argue with that at all, lysdexic. It's so true that I'll turn it on Maur: Keep that bottom shelf open. But I'll venture a guess that you'll someday grow tired of cleaning the mess down there and think, man, what more could I be doing with all this area? lol. Then you'll design and build a cabinet that fits just right, giving you space to put measuring and marking tools, maybe a hammer, some chisels, etc. etc. without sacrificing any features that your bench has to offer. But I say that as a friend and fellow worker of wood. Your mileage may vary. 

No, I haven't taken pics of full drawers of the bench cabinet. Have to do that and amend the cabinet project post.

Bandit, the problem of 'multiplicity' is real! I have too many #4s, for example, and the day is coming that I'll divest a few…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sorry, Mos, for stepping in the middle of your vise challenge with my musings. I understand the allure of square dogs and forward placement. But round dogs and a sticking board address the concerns stated above. But I'm sure you know that.  I'm not being very careful with opinions today, and we all know what they say about opinions…


----------



## Mosquito

yeah, and I've made a few sticking boards for various things. When I made the shelf for my #45 and #46 on my adjustable plane till, I screwed the work piece to another piece, and clamped that one down since I didn't have room for the 2.5" wide piece I wanted to use. I don't particularly like a sticking board, as I've managed to kick the work piece out of them when using the #45 if it gets hung up on something.

I will have a couple of holes for holdfasts further back, maybe I'll get some round dogs, and one of those wonder dogs, or something, have both options.


----------



## Brit

I had to Google what 'they' say about opinions because I'd forgotten and I didn't want to assume because that would just make an ass out of u and me.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's it, Andy! Opinions are like assumptions! lol


----------



## Mosquito

You stupid %^%$!

Ok, that was directed at myself… 









Not that easy to see in the picture, but about half way down the board is the letter "I". Anyone care to guess what the I stands for?

...

*inside*.

See which side it's on?
*outside*

... Son of a …









I must have done something almost right on the other end, though, as it fits decent backwards…









So… now I either get a new front board and try pins-first dovetails for the first time, or I get a new front apron board, cut off the tails on the end cap, and shorten the other end cap, and just but them up to the front apron. I'm also not happy with the fit on this most recent one either, it's a bit funky.










Thoughts?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It doesn't look bad from here, Mos. Sure it can't be hit with the smoother post-install and be fine totally fine??


----------



## waho6o9

It fits decent backwards, you're golden Mos!


----------



## chrisstef

And assumptions are like Al's sexuality …. Wildly speculative.


----------



## Mosquito

Maybe… The only real issue is that it's a got a little gap on the other end, and I had cut the corners off to fit it in the pin board easier. That probably won't plane down at all, but I can probably live with that.

I'll have to see about planing down the front side. The fit isn't that great, it's a little skewed…

I'm just frustrated I did something that stupid. I even looked to make sure I had it the right way, but then had to grab something so set it down, picked it back up, and marked it with out checking the second time… oops.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You recover from something like this, Mos, and you'll have a great story to tell. Study carefully, do what you got to do.


----------



## mochoa

Mos just glue in pieces of wood to cover up the defects, no one will ever know.


----------



## lysdexic

Right - to what you got to do. Just know you are not alone when it comes to mistakes. I think every blog entry I had during my bench build read like this.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks guys. I'm going to take a break, and think it over. I had thought about doing the other dovetail tonight too, but I decided to just walk away… I know when I'm not having a good day lol


----------



## donwilwol

No worries Mos. Dove tails help you refine your "hide the mistake" talents. If i recut every DT mistake I'd need to spend more time at the saw mill!


----------



## Boatman53

Finally got a few minutes to jump in here. I've been keeping up with my phone but it is hard to post. Let's see a couple hundred posts, a broken code, and some new benches. I thought I'd share some general vise shots because a hundred or so posts back someone had a question, don't remember who. I am almost always working on odd shapes so here goes. A couple of months after I finished my bench with the twin leg vises a friend of mine gave me his 40 year old Ulmia bench. It is in the shop right next to my current project.
So this is the piece I'm shaping.








That one edge has a rolling bevel that changes from one end to the other. If I clamp it in the face vise it looks something like this.








To plane the that bevel with that big wide chop I need to shift it at least twice and can't plane end to end for a smooth flowing line. However if I clamp ti in the leg vise on the other bench it looks like this.








There is a lot more room, it is held just as securely and the chop does not interfere at all. I can plane continuously from one end to the other. This is holding something in the tail vise which I am really liking. I could clamp it in the face vise, but I would have to deal with the racking issues. The tail vise has no racking.

















Keep up the good work. Chris don't worry, we have all made that inside outside mistake. I did the same thing on my bench. But it was just an esthetic choice on mine, I had the wrong face up when I started cutting.
Jim


----------



## mochoa

Yeah Jim, I bet one of those end vises really has to be experienced to be appreciated. I bet if you had one it would be the most used vise on the bench.


----------



## Boatman53

Yes Mauricio between the use of the dogs and that clamping ability in the front of the bench it is very useful. I wanted to put one on that Ash bench I built but I didn't want that much overhang on the end. Plus the Ash bench wasn't meant to be a primary bench, it was going to go in the lesser used shop. Of course that is not going to happen. For about 25 years I put off building a bench because I just wanted all the vises on it and it just wasn't possible. So the result is I'm now getting ready to build yet another bench with different vise combinations.
Jim


----------



## mochoa

Another good point you made about that end vise is that there is no issue with wracking. The work piece is directly in line with the force of the screw, same with the leg vise.

Another bench build? Sweet, cant wait to see it.


----------



## mochoa

Hey Smitty, how are you liking those veritas brass dogs? Have you ever messed up and hit one with a plane?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I love the brass dogs. Nicked one a long time ago, can't even remember how or why. I have those and some ugly, square-headed ones; the latter I bought with the Jorgensen hold downs from Peachtree Woodworking, and were chee-ee-eep. I like and use both, but mostly use the brassers.


----------



## mochoa

Nice, I think I'll pick some up when I'm done with my bench. Friction fit round dogs are a pain in the aas. they either fit too tight or fall through.


----------



## mochoa

I was at Woodcraft yesterday and thy had he big round steel dogs, they moved up and down nicely with the little spring on the side but steel scares me around planes. Brass would be a little more forgiving.


----------



## Mosquito

why can't you make your own round wooden dogs with a spring, Mauricio?

I'm still going back and forth between square and round dogs…


----------



## mochoa

You could definitly make your own, but some bench bling would be a nice cherry on top after finishing the build.


----------



## Mosquito




----------



## terryR

Jim, you have a nice array of benches already…cannot wait to see the next! That Ash is sweet…

I was certainly hoping to turn my own dogs…hadn't thought of the metallic paint, though! 

How about Osage with tons of shellac on it? sorta bling…


----------



## WhoMe

Well guys, I think I am going to commit blasphemy and not build a 'real' workbench for now. I was thinking on starting to plan a split rubo but space and $$ are a issue. My workshop is a garage that has a LOT of the typical garage stuff and room for one car. So I am going to try to build a 'inexpensive' table saw cart that will incorporate an area for a future router lift. It will have a basic end vise but since I am a lefty, I need to figure out where I will put it. I have scrounged through the archives of the projects for some ideas here on LJs and in some of the wood working mags so I have some ideas of what I want in it. I know it will not compare to the wonderful benches some of you are building but I will build one sometime in the future. Because, using the table saw as a workbench/assembly table/place to pile stuff on and Oh, yea a saw that moves easily even with the wheels locked is not working any more. Besides, by building this, I can incorporate several drawers to store other tools to free up space else where and allow me to build a couple mobile carts and wall cabinets so that I hope to get enough room to build a nice workbench. I have LOTS of ideas for that. 
One step at a time though… and it will be a good excuse to actually start a blog and get practice for the real thing later.


----------



## bandit571

Just a teaser:









the drawers hold a few small items…://storage.googleapis.com/aws-s3-lumberjocks-com/mgs3c1w.jpg!

and eventhe small drawers have a use..://storage.googleapis.com/aws-s3-lumberjocks-com/mgs3d61.jpg!
both drawers..://storage.googleapis.com/aws-s3-lumberjocks-com/mgs3f2i.jpg!

Just an old, broken down Dresser. You think I should put a clear top coat on it??


----------



## dbray45

WhoMe - I have have had about eight different benches over the years, reused the lumber on many of them for the next version. I still do not have what I want but that is good. You build or even buy what you need now and work for more of what you need, afford, and have room for later.

At one time I had an old door sitting on cinder blocks for a work bench, I felt great when I added Masonite to the top of it.


----------



## mochoa

Latest Installment of my bench build!
http://lumberjocks.com/mochoa/blog/34017


----------



## WhoMe

David, thanks for the words of encouragement. I know that someday I will have the bench of my dreams but right now any work bench is better than what I have. Plus, It will give me a chance to work with wood more. And to work more on Sketchup too.


----------



## Mosquito

Got back to this tonight


----------



## terryR

Wow, Mos, that is gonna be awesome! And finished pretty soon form the looks of things! Congrats…

WhoMe, you and I have the same needs and philosophy…build a simple bench NOW that we can use to improve hand tool skills. Hopefully we ALL live long enough to build the Bench of our Dreams! 

I just came up with another excuse to postpone my bench building for another 10 days or so…wood stove kit finally arrived via UPS last night! About time! Gotta cut and paste steel for a day, then burn all the old diesel fuel outta the barrels. And…clear more space in my shrinking shop. But, it will pay off soon I bet!

I've also been drooling over one of these Milwaulkies…anybody know anything about them? They are made in USA and stocked by TFWW, so I just assume it's a great tool…








.


----------



## donwilwol

that looks and awful lot like my columbian Terry. I wonder if they are related?


----------



## terryR

^Oh yeah, poured in the same mold it looks to me! I like how yours is mortised right into the top, Don.


----------



## mochoa

Mos, wont be long now! Its looking good.

Here is the latest installment of my build!
http://lumberjocks.com/mochoa/blog/34048


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Mauricio, back at you 
-

I mentioned this in your blog as well, Mauricio, but I'll repeat it here…

In regards to the Lee Valley/Veritas inset vise, I was thinking about it some more the other day as I was staring at my bench trying to figure out what I want to do. With the inset vise, I would have to remove it every time I flattened the bench top, and then potentially have to adjust the depth of the recesses for the inset vise, before putting it back in. I feel that could get annoying.


----------



## mochoa

I never thought of that Mos. How hard do you think that is to do?

What about a traditional shoulder vise? That kind of hangs out beyond the edge of the bench? 









Also, I think I've mentioned this before but and face vise off the end would be sweet too. This is the one I saw at an antique mall once. 









I really want to make a wooden face vise with one of my screws. But with just one parallel guide. There is no room on my bench for it. Maybe my 5yr old needs a bench? LOL….


----------



## mochoa

Hey, this on ebay is just like the one I saw at the antique mall! I dont see it in these pics but the height is adjustable via two hinged blocks at the top stretchers. 
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=wooden+vise&_sacat=0&_from=R40


----------



## Mosquito

lol which one Mauricio? That was a link to a search..

I don't think it would be "hard" at all. I would just use the #71 to adjust it a little, but it just seems like an inconvenience.

I was thinking about a tail vise, but I've already dovetailed the end cap and front apron pieces together. I'd have to undo that for it to work. With my bench design the way it is, I don't know if I could retrofit a tail vise very well. With the end cap also being the tool tray support structure, and my bench top only being 10" from front to back

Still thinking about making a more traditional wagon. I think I could make it work, but good hardware for one isn't cheap. The screw would likely just sit below my bench, instead of recessing out a section for it


----------



## AnthonyReed

Mos, those through mortise/tenons look awesome.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Tony


----------



## LeChuck

I've been following this great thread. Wondering what you guys would do in my situation:

I bought a workbench top recently from another woodworker and I'm building a base for it. I've been milling, milling, milling, cutting, planing, squaring…tons of knotty douglas fir to build it because that's what I had at hand, it was given to me.

It will not be Roubo style nor a trestle base. Just simply 4 legs, 4 short stretchers, and 4 long stretchers. The legs end up at about 4×4 square and are already laminated and squared up. Everything else is too, and I just need to cross cut to length at this point, and join. It will be fitted with mortise/tenon joints.

So…I can't really make a decision from here, and that's mostly because the top is already built and that limits my choices.

I was originally thinking that I would build the base smaller and let the front overhang a little, but I'd like to be able to clamp longer boards for edge planing. I'm not sure if I should actually use a top stretcher in the front because it would interfere if I want to clamp to the apron (or skirt?) of the bench. It has a 5 inch apron in the front. On the other hand, my legs are only 4 inch square and not as beefy as those you see on the Roubo benches that don't have a stretcher. I'm thinking about joining the top to the base with big dowels.

Or should I rather go for no overhang out front and notch the top of the legs to make room for the top's apron? Again, they are only 4 inch square, well, actually 4-1/8.

Also, the stretchers are 1-3/8 thick, which limits the possibility of joining them flush with the legs using mortise and tenon…

I will plan to make an entire bench from scratch in the future but I can't afford the time and materials at the moment, so I want to make the right decisions here for this bench to be as useful as possible in the meantime. The top I bought is also douglas fir but it is solid, has dog holes, and a nice big Jorgensen 4×10 vise.

The vise is not mortised into the apron by the way and that bothers me, plus the apron and the top will probably have to be flattened…before or after I finish the base…


----------



## donwilwol

Its a difficult decision because there is no right or wrong, just a right or wrong from how you work. I made an overhang on mine. I like that I can just throw up a pipe clamp anywhere on the bench. I also like I don't stub my toes on the legs. I don't have a front & back, its a 4 sided bench.

It does loose some capacity in my leg vice, but I'm ok with that. I also like if I leave the drawers open a little, it helps with the debris. It doesn't stop it completely and shutting them 100% of the time would eliminate it totally, I'm just not that persistent.

That said, I've worked on benches with flush legs, and never really had an issue.


----------



## LeChuck

Thanks Don. And you don't seem to be using top stretchers either…


----------



## Mosquito

3 of the 4 legs on my bench are just 3.5×3, and I've got no top stretchers. I do have them through mortised in the benchtop, and have bottom stretchers, though.

The 4th leg is 5.5×3, because I plan to use it for a leg vise.


----------



## LeChuck

Thanks, this is good to know. My stretchers are a bit over 5 inches wide and 1-3-8 thick but if I do not use the top stretchers, they can be laminated to make thicker bottom stretchers…hmmm….need to think about this some more


----------



## Mosquito

My bench is also only 51" long, and 10.5" wide, not including the tool tray, so that's something to keep in mind too.


----------



## ksSlim

Pay no attention to the ellefant in the room.
Yer all working it to YOUR needs.
Best is, yer still working it.

Make it work for you!


----------



## mochoa

Got started on the drawbore pins last night. 
Couple of blocks of walnut, brass plumbing thingies for the ferrules and alignment pins from HF:









Please ignore the finger in the picture.


----------



## AnthonyReed

They will have ferrules even? Nice.


----------



## Mosquito

practicing for a marking implement too…


----------



## mochoa

Thats the idea Tony, We'll see if I can make it work.

Mos, I was thinking the same thing. Its a good warm up.


----------



## yuridichesky

Hi,

I'm in a doubt and I need an advise from bench-builders pros. I'm building roubo-like work bench. It's a small one, the top is about 40" by 10" not including tool tray, the legs are 3-1/8" by 2-3/4". Both top and legs are pine. I will bolt it to the wall so it won't move and will be very rigid.

Here is the doubt part. I have a 1-1/8" threaded rod and I'm going to use it for my leg vise (about 8" wide, inspired by benchcrafted glide). So will the leg of given dimensions hold the vise well? What's your experience in this subject? What wold be "good enough" minimal leg dimensions for the leg vise with metal screw?

Thank you


----------



## terryR

WOW, walnut drawbores with brass ferrules? Holy $hit…that's some bling! Cannot wait to see it!!!!!!!

Sorry, Yuri, I'm not experienced enough to answer your question…but I'm interested in the answer!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yuri - I think the leg supporting the leg vise screw should be more substantial, and here's why.

Typical practice is to recess the nut of the rod into the leg. If said leg is 2 ¾" wide, you'll remove about 1 ¼" for the threaded rod, clear through, then recess the nut into the leg some depth, the width of the nut. That's a lot of mass gone from your bench leg at the very point that mass most important. All the stress of clamping is placed at the screw and at the bottom pin.

If said leg is 2 ¾" deep, the problem is lessened but still a concern in that you'll be burying the nut into the leg a couple inches across and at least ¾" deep (a picture of your hardware would help here, but you get the idea I hope).

Just for conversation sake, if you could add an inch to each dimension of said leg it would be to your advantage. Don't have to go crazy and make them 6" square, but getting past the point of removing close to 40 percent of the dimension by boring for the rod would be a good thing.

Hope this helps.


----------



## mochoa

Terry, thats the idea, I actually got one almost done last night. It got too late (and too cold) to drive the pin into the handle, I'm going to do that today.

I'm going to do the trick Schwarz wrote about here where he heats the "tang" for 2 minutes and then drives the handle on. This is supposed to char the wood causing it to contract so the handle wont split.

I hope it doesnt because it looks pretty sweet so far!


----------



## Mosquito

Yuri, I agree with what Smitty said. On my bench, the non-leg vise legs are all 3"x3.5", but I made the leg for the leg vise 5.5"x3" for the added strength. It would also help if you clamp something vertically in the leg vise that doesn't fit above the screw in the middle of the vise.
-

Nice draw bore pin Mauricio.


----------



## mochoa

Here you go. I skipped the torch and just ground down the ridges on the octagonal tang and drove it in. 
It didn't split! This one is for the workbench and 3/8" pegs. I'll also be making a 1/4" one for furniture scale work.


----------



## yuridichesky

Smitty, Mosquito, thank you for reply, it does help.

My hardware is the cylindrical brass nut with a "step" :









I'm going to silver-solder a flange to it so it would get clamping pressure without protruding the wood:









The smaller part of the nut (1-3/8" diameter, 1-3/8" length too) will go into the leg, the rest will stay outside.

So you're right Smitty, I'll drill out about 50% of the wood for the rod and the nut (well, actually less than that because its round, not square), but I think it still will be enough meat to get clamping pressure load and the weight of the vise itself (the parallel guide gets most of the latter anyway).

My most concern is about what Mosquito says: non-symmetrical pressure will rock the chop and the rod in horizontal plane so the rod will try to break out of the leg. But my hope is that parallel guide will get some load in this direction too if I fit it to the mortise accurately.


----------



## Techo

My contribution since I used to work off a card table and a B&D workmate! Great looking benchs so far!


----------



## chrisstef

I love how youve used the kids matts for covering the floor. As soon as mine out grows his matts theyll be in the shop just like yours.


----------



## mochoa

Oh snap! I think I have some alphabet mats I can use!


----------



## Boatman53

Yuri… There is very little non symmetrical loading (wracking) with a leg vise because there are no guide bars like most other vises. You can clamp right next to the screw. Derek Cohen did add an additional guide to guide the beam between the bench legs. Might be a something to concider if the mortise doesn't fit like you would like. I'll see if I can hunt up the link.
Jim

Edit: found it. http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/ParallelGuideGuide.html


----------



## Mosquito

lol Techo, I know the pain RE: workmate and card table…


----------



## yuridichesky

Thanks, Boatman, good point.

And yes, I remember now Derek's post about adding extra support for the parallel guide when his vise got some play.


----------



## terryR

Jim, thanks for the link!

Mauricio, that came out sweet…much better than stock!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Nice job Mauricio!! Looks great.

My first attempt (oak) split.


----------



## ksSlim

+1 on the kids mats. Grandkids out grew their's, in my play house now!!
> Maur Torch on the tang does work. Blacksmith club taught me hoe to re-handle a hammer head.
Bring the tang to a "low cherry" plunge and your're done.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Jim, Tony, & Slim.

Here is a pic of the two finished pins!









Project posted:
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/78402


----------



## lysdexic

Nicely done sir. I had written off making these.i don't know why but now you've given me a bit a motivation. Your came out great.

Why not hexagonal handles?


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Scott. They were easy and fun to make. Nice to knock out a project from start to finish in just a couple of hours. Also a nice way to catch my breath before knocking the bench together.

The octagonal handle is just not as exciting and I was just in the mood to make something with walnut and brass. 









And I just need to step up the game a little now that I'm going to have a nice bench! Its making everything else in the shop look so crappy!


----------



## donwilwol

I know this topic has been discussed from time to time. http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/?p=757

So i thought I'd share for those that didn't see it.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks for that link Don. I was just thinking about this as I get close to that phase of my bench build.

The leather I have is about 1/8" thick and it is suede and the grip is awesome. I was wondering about the gap it would leave when clamping a long board. McGuire says to mortise it into the bench which sounds a little crazy to me. There are no period example of that that I know of.

I'm not sure if I would go that far. Maybe I would just get some thinner suede for the bench top side. But then again, Paul Sellers doesnt eve flush his vises up to the face of the bench so 1/8" is really negligible.


----------



## donwilwol

I've been thinking about adding leather just to the vice side, but I've yet to have a problem with either slippage or marking.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Ok, you all have saw my bench now.

I have problems with certain dogholes, my holdfasts just don't want to grab in certain holes. Most of them are pretty square to the top. Do you think that some spillage of the waxy finish into the holes would affect the grip? Do I need to rough up the inside of the dogholes?

Edit: I did rough up the holdfast stems with 80 grit in a circumferential way (not up and down, but around and around).


----------



## Fishfreak911

As a guy 6'2" tall, I always wonder why ALL workbenches are so low. I have to say, my built-in bench, is 42" high, and I wouldn't have it any other way!


----------



## DanKrager

Have any of you "srewballs" seen this?
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/editors-blog/a-vintage-spindle-threading-machine
Looks really interesting. 
DanK


----------



## Mike53E

Random search on eBay and I stumbled across this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Huge-Workbench-with-2-Good-Wooden-Vice-Screws-/190788876650?pt=Folk_Art&hash=item2c6be7396a#viTabs_0
Obviously this thing has seen quite the wear but I'm sure it could be refurbished especially since it is currently listed at $50! The SYP sitting in my garage waiting to be turned into a bench cost way more than that.


----------



## mochoa

Grant make sure you clean the oil off the holdfasts. My Gramercy ones didn't work until I wipped them dowm with mineral spirits. I also scuffed them up w sandpaper.


----------



## mochoa

That thing is pretty cool Dan,

Mike, id be all over it if I was local.


----------



## wormil

I'm close enough to go pick up that bench but I really don't need another project right now. It's really pretty far gone too.


----------



## yuridichesky

Want to share with you my little success story: wagon vise made from scratch










Comments and critiques are more than welcomed.


----------



## lysdexic

That antique bench is only 29" high. Wow.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

I'll try the mineral spirits thing Mauricio, thanks. I think I'm also going to try and sand the inside of the holes as well.


----------



## BrandonW

Scott, that bench isn't that far from you, I think.

That is a pretty sweet wagon vise, Yuri.


----------



## donwilwol

Glen, you can also try running the bit there them again. That typically works for me.


----------



## yuridichesky

Thank you, Brandon.

To everyone: is there a way to change link in the post? My project link in the post above now points to "first blog entries" which is not my blog entry (but it used to be if I'm not mistaken).


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Yuri, that wagon vise looks great. I've been throwing ideas around to make a wagon vise, and I quite like yours.

As far as the link, you can only edit a post up to 1 hour after you first posted it, so you can't edit it anymore now.


----------



## yuridichesky

Thank you, Mos. I think my wagon vise differs from most of the others in a way the screw nut is secured on the moving block. Which came from the hardware I had.


----------



## Mosquito

I agree. I haven't seen one quite like it, but I really like it. I wouldn't mind having a setup like that for my bench, I think it would work perfectly.


----------



## LeChuck

Man my arm hurts.

I'm making mortises for my workbench base, in douglas fir. I was expecting it to be softer but it seems hard as rock. I'm using the Paul Sellers method and trying to chop them by hand but man, what a task. I've gone through almost 4 out of….14. They are 3/4 for the sides and 7/8 for the long rails, 3 1/4 long, and supposed to be 3 inches deep but I revised that to 2.5 instead. I'm using an old mortise chisels that is only 10mm and is the biggest I have. It seems that I'm getting better and faster as I go, I'm just hoping I'll finish before I get incapacitated 

I did try to go to the drill press to hog out some material after the first mortise took way too long to do, but for some reason I always make a mess of everything at the drill press (and I don't have an auxiliary table yet so it's hard to hold those big leg posts). I just can't drill accurately enough and the mortises look way cleaner when I do it by hand.

I now think that I'm going to chop them down to 1.5 or 2 inches by hand then go to the drill press to finish and get the bottom smooth and at the right depth. I'm kinda wishing I had sized everything for through mortises, but I thought that I wouldn't be able to make them clean enough for that…

Good thing is that most mortises I'll be making in the future won't be that big.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

LeChuck - you are hereby an expert on hand-chopped bench mortises. Congrats!



It sounds like progress is being made, and that's excellent. Looking forward to the reveal!


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Well I wiped down the holdfasts, again, and hit them with 80 grit, again, and then finally roughed up the holes with the forstner bit at a touch of an angle (maybe the were too smooth from the first time and a bit of the waxy finish ran into them).

They hold great now. Thanks, again, guys!

Edit: On a side note, I had a friend pick up a Millers Falls No. 22 CBG for me, 3 hours north of me. The guy selling it said his dad passed 24 years ago and he doesn't think that he used it much. It looks good and I get half of the original box. $50, but I've been having a hard time over the last 5-6 months finding a decent jointer plane, especially a bailey/bedrock (found one #8C with a cracked mouth for $160, not happening). I hear some Millers Falls can be just as good if not better than the Stanleys…or worse if they are later models.


----------



## mochoa

Hey do I have to chamfer my dog holes? Can I just hit the edges with some sandpaper? Do I need the chamfer to avoid spelching when I'm flattening my top?


----------



## TechRedneck

Mauricio

I would slightly ease the top edges of the dog holes. Helps when you push in the doggies and keeps them from splintering when you pull them out, especially the hold fasts.


----------



## shampeon

Grant: $50 for a Millers Falls 22 is a steal. I'm pretty sure they didn't make type 5 jointer planes, so you don't have one from the "bad" years. Post a pic when you get it in the handplane thread.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

RE: chamfering dog holes. I did, and would do it again no doubt. As tech says, pulling holdfasts put some pretty extreme pressures up at the top of said holes. Especially pulling the Veritas version (if you think you may get one of those in the future).


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio, I chamfered mine as well using a big counter sink


----------



## GlennsGrandson

As far as the chamfers go I would do it again as well. I just put a 45 degree chamfer bit with bearing in my plunge router and barely set it below table level, quick and easy. It also makes finding the 3/4" dog hole with a 3/4" dog a little easier.

*Ian* I hope it's good, I'm just getting more and more into this hand plane thing so I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to with the Type 5 jointer plane comment and I definitely do not have the time to read through the hand plane thread, but I will post a picture there when I get it in my possession. Thanks for the reassurance on the price.


----------



## ksSlim

Short camfers are better.
look at an old bench, they're already there.


----------



## BrandonW

Chamfer those bad boys. Either use a chamfer bit in the router or do it like Scott did.


----------



## Mosquito

Mauricio, do it… 
-

I'm thinking about going with round dogs, and setting them another 1/2" back from the front. It would make the wagon vise easier.


----------



## lysdexic

Mos, if it makes vise installation easier consider moving them back but keep them as close to the front edge as you can.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, that's why it'd only be a 1/2". That would put the front edge of the dogs 2" from the front of my bench. If I did square dogs, they'd be 1 1/2" from the front. I don't think I'd go any more than 2" on my bench, with how much I like my #45…

Another thought was to just have the dog block for the wagon vise have a notch on the side instead of a hole in the middle, and have the edge of the dog slide along the front apron piece, but I didn't like the strength loss in that


----------



## lysdexic

Nah, I'd put it in the middle too. I think 2" is the same as my square dogs to the front edge.


----------



## mochoa

Chamfer it is then! Thanks guys.

Mos one of the big advantages of the round dogs is that you can put a hold fast in any one of them which is really nice.


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio, if you are interested in the counter sink, I bought it from Lee Valley and did a review


----------



## terryR

Yo, Scotty B, thanks for that review! I was just about to waste a piece of walnut and a brass ferrule by attaching them to a cheap counter sink bit. NOT any more…

I'm headed to Lee Valley to get one of those sweet bits!

You guys are uncanny in your abilities to ask and answer the question in the back of my mind all the time…scary!


----------



## yuridichesky

Mauricio, here's what I use to chamfer (well, to round) edges of large holes: piece of sandpaper double-taped on a cone block:










It won't give you crisp edge, but it's not always necessary to be crisp.


----------



## terryR

^Love it, Yuri…
heck, even I can make one of those.


----------



## mochoa

Scott thanks for the link. That thing is sweet but I alread have the chamfer bit chucked in the router and I probably wouldnt get the tool intime if I ordered it anyway.

I would like to have one of those chucked in a brace ready to go.

Yuri, that is a very clever solution, I like it. Turn a cone, put some sandpaper on it. Good to go.


----------



## lysdexic

Great idea Yuri. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## shampeon

Glenn: for whatever reason, hand plane collectors have organized different variations of the same models of hand planes into different types based on when the planes were made. So when you hear somebody talking about a type 11 Stanley Bailey No. 7 plane, they're talking about a jointer plane made just before or during World War I.

There's a website with a lot of good info about Millers Falls planes that includes a type study of their bench planes. Type 5 was the last variation, from the late '60s through the '70s, and those planes are not considered very desirable. Since your model of plane was discontinued after the type 4 era, you're good.


----------



## Gibney

I'm building a knock off split top (tool bins, removeable for clamping access); 2.75 thick, beasty legs; veritas TS face vise, RHS end vise. Having fun with it so far!!

But, haven't worked out how to attach the top to the leg assembly

Recommendations and pictures would be greatly, greatly appreciated.


----------



## AnthonyReed

"You guys are uncanny in your abilities to ask and answer the question in the back of my mind all the time…scary!" - Just an FYI Terry, Lysdexic is a witch. He claims warlock but we have heard claims to the contrary.

Very nice solution Yuri.


----------



## lysdexic

* Just an FYI Terry, Lysdexic is a bitch.*

I am just not sure that I can let you get away with that one.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Gibney - ScottyBYo built a split top and documented his top-to-base matchup. Lots of pictures, too.


----------



## LeChuck

Chopping mortises…..not my favorite thing in the world.










And I hate working this wood, it's so dry and brittle, and at times can be so hard, it just won't chisel cleanly most of the time, instead it shreds into tiny bits and splinters.And those hidden knots that find themselves in the middle of a mortise…nice. Next up, cutting 14 tenons, and I expect to have to fiddle with every single one since my mortises really didn't come out very clean…They are supposed to be glued and pegged for the side assemblies, but I'm wondering if I should draw-bore, since my joints will be far from perfect. I don't have one of them pins though…

The joints for the long rails will have bolts…normally. I originally wanted to draw-bore there as well (and I don't have clamps that are long enough) but I thought bolting might be better…


----------



## BrandonW

At least you're looking stylish while doing it. That pig sticker is pretty sweet!


----------



## LeChuck

Thanks. It's an old one that belonged to my dad, brand is Goldenberg, from France. It's 10mm, about 3/8. I would have loved a bigger one for this…


----------



## mochoa

Chuck, drawboreing is great for sloppy joints. I can let you borrow my pin if you want. I'm done with it for a while. You dont need clamps for drawboring…


----------



## AnthonyReed

I peg pardon Mr. Yo. My reference was to your powerful grasp of the dark arts. Such as your mystical command of photography; bending light and morphing juxtapositions in your evocations of profound compositions. Or your ability to compel others to value and heed your assessments:









Now i do not recall saying b!tch but if you want to take it that way… well, that's just like, your opinion man.


----------



## LeChuck

Thanks Mauricio  I think I might try draw boring but what can I use instead of an actual pin? I have a few days to finish this bench base while I'm on off time, then move down my to-do list


----------



## lysdexic

David, I also became a fan of draw boring during my bench build. Alas, I am lazier than Maur and did not use a pin. You just have to ease off on your offset and ensure you taper the point of your pegs.

Tony, I was so mad at you I wasn't going to talk to you until Friday but I must wish you great satisfaction with your new acquisition. Heeding any advice or counsel from me is not without substantial risk. What, if I may ask is the motivation for your purchase? I enjoy having my countersink loaded in a brace, ready and within quick reach. Because you never know when one must countersink with dire urgency :^)

Do, sir, let us know your own assessment.


----------



## bandit571

What passes for a bench right now









It will do double duty as a tablesaw…


----------



## LeChuck

Lysdexic, thanks, tapering and forcing it in might work. There's a harbor freight nearby and I could get those pins if they sell them but I don't see myself take the time to do any work on that before getting the workbench ready to use.


----------



## LeChuck

Have any of you guys used bolts to attach the front stretchers and has that ever been useful other than to knock it down? And if you haven't, ever wish you had? I'm thinking of drawboring those, as I originally wanted to in order to not have to use clamps I don't have. I guess if the joints ever fail, I can put bolts in. Don't really want to spend or bother with extra hardware if I don't have to…

I was reading the Chris Schwarz article on his $175 bench and he uses bolt, in case it needs to be retightened, but he then goes on the write something like "if you ever need to in your lifetime", which makes me think it's not something to worry about.

I'm using some fir 2×12 that were given to me and the person mentioned having them for a very long time. They seem really dry although some of them still had some sap inside, although that might never dry out by itself…


----------



## Mosquito

That's a sticking point for my front stretcher at the moment too, David. Would peg it, but I want to be able to take the top off the legs, and be able to move it. That would be made significantly less convenient if I permanently fix the left and right legs together. But I don't really want to use bolts either, for no reason other than I don't want to look at them. Still not sure what I'm going to do yet.


----------



## DanKrager

Mos, is it too late to use a through tenon with a tusk? That is both tighten-able and removable.
DanK


----------



## GlennsGrandson

David I used the bolt idea from the $175 bench in my build and it wasn't all that bad to do and it got the legs extremely tight, tighter than I could have done any other way. Yes, I may never need to tighten them again, but my bench isn't going anywhere soon and maybe after several decades of seasonal changes and being moved around my future kids may need to tighten them sometime. Easier than dismantling and reassembling.

Check out my bench in my projects if you are more interested in it. I also got a couple of ideas from the 21st century workbench by Robert Lang, although it may not be recognizable in my build.

I would do the bolts again. Although standard bolts and nuts take a while to install, maybe consider barrel nuts to save yourself some time.

Edit: Hey, look at that, it's been a year for me!


----------



## chrisstef

Tony for the win with the Lebowski quote! Ill have another white russian.


----------



## LeChuck

Thanks, I'll stick with the bolt idea then, I guess. Although I now think I might not be able to drill holes that deep, my tenons being 2.5 inches long…

I'll say though, that this is not my last bench, or the one I'll pass down to my kids. I'll make a nicer one for that some day


----------



## mochoa

Dont bolts usually go on those little stubby tenons?

I origiinally wanted to do the wedged tenons. But the wood I had to work with wasnt long enough.

I like these:









Or these


----------



## Mosquito

I could try wedged tenons, but I'm not sure how much space I'd have in front of the stretchers from front to back. They're tenoned into the legs, about 2", and the legs are only 3" thick. That leaves me 1" or so to not have to mortise through the other tenons. Wouldn't be the end of the world, but not ideal.


----------



## LeChuck

Yeah, that's the thing. When I see bolts being used, the tenons are shorter. Mine were going to be 3 inches long but they are now 2.5. So I'd have to drill through that plus probably another couple inches…

If I could go back, I might have chosen to go all the way through the legs instead of stopped mortises but that ship has sailed. It's just that I don't like dealing with hardware, and I usually do better with the more complex stuff but botch simple things like drilling straight holes or using screws, and I don't feel like being in a hunt for the right bolts and nuts. I don't know. I'll go cut my tenons and figure out the rest later…


----------



## mochoa

All signes point to drawboreing.


----------



## LeChuck

Looks like it 

I'll see how solid it feels once I've cut and fitted the tenons. The fir is hard-ish but brittle so I'm hoping there will be good strength on the tenons. What if driving the dowels after the drawboring actually breaks the wood? I probably need to be very conservative with the offset.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

If you are concerned about the drilling depth (most bits are 6" long, you'll get 5" 1/2 actually depth when chucked) put your tenons in, drill through the outside of the mortise into the tenon as far as you can, take them apart and continue drilling in the tenon without it in the mortise. You'll gain the depth equivalent to the thickness left in the bottom of your mortise. I made this work because I didn't want to have and buy a 12" bit for another $15-$20 added to my bench cost.


----------



## LeChuck

All tenons…..cut!










Next I'll send them just a little bit and it will be fitting time. If I get lucky, there won't be too much extra work…

By the way, I love the new blade I put in the Rikon bandsaw for this. As incredulous as I usually am, I was really surprised by the difference. A lot smoother than I expected it to be. That's probably for another thread


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, great work David!


----------



## lysdexic

David, those appear well executed. I am glad your Rikon is behaving well. Mine has developed a dastardly drift angle that seemed to come out of nowhere. I've yet to come up with a accurate diagnosis and effective treatment plan. Like you said…... Subject for another thread.


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## mochoa

David those look nice and crisp!

I think we need a new thread "Why wont my bandwas cut straight"


----------



## LeChuck

Thanks  I like them even better after a little bit of sanding and easing the edges with the block plane. Today it's fitting time and I already know I need to do some chisel work on the mortises as they have a tendency to taper down a bit. Getting closer


----------



## terryR

Any of you guys old enough to remember that song, "I was in the right place…but it was at the wrong time…"?

Well, today I chiseled out a fairly nice mortice in my bench apron…in the WRONG place! Actually, only an inch too low, and 1/4" too deep after much review.

Luckily, I've seen that done here before. 

So, just waiting for the glue to dry tonight, and I'll fix it tomorrow morning. Maybe a photo of the evidence tomorrow if you guys are good!


----------



## donwilwol

Any of you guys old enough to remember that song

Maybe


----------



## mochoa

LOL, Terry I hate when that happens!


----------



## LeChuck

I did that once with mortises in a door frame…I marked the positions for the wrong side of the hinges and they were *way* off…


----------



## mochoa

Hey folks I'm getting close to being ready to apply my finish.

Can anyone explain to me the difference between the 3-2-1 finish and the 1-1-1 finish.

I thought it was all about the 3-2-1 but I watches Schwarz' DVD on building his Roubo and he uses the 1-1-1 equal part BLO, MS, & Poly.

Is the 3-2-1 MS, BLO & Poly in that order?


----------



## bandit571

Am i old enough to remember that song? Eh, could be;-()

Finish on a bench? Finish on a Bench?? Only if something drips down onto it….


----------



## mochoa

I plan on dripping finish on it. The finish I put on it intentionally is so that the other stuff (including glue) doesn't stick. And, I'm not ashamed to say, I want the bench to look nice!


----------



## donwilwol

3-2-1 will dry quicker. 1-1-1 will probably make it pop a little more. I'd at least start with 1-1-1 for the first coat or 2.

3-2-1 will be a little easier to wipe on I think.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Don, Is the 2 Poly? and the 1 BLO?

Also will either fill the grain a little if I sand it into the top? I dont want a mirror finish or anything but this Red Oak is very porous and I just want to plug up the deepest part of the grain.


----------



## donwilwol

thinner - poly - blo, yes.

Use the poly for the sheen you want (no mirror, so use satin)

I never get hung up on the mixture. So my mixed a 3-2-1 glugs. As you go you may find adding additional of one or the other helps you achieve your finish.

If your worried about filling, try 3-1-1 to help fill and raise the grain. Sand with 220 and move on.


----------



## mochoa

Dang I bought the clear gloss stuff. Maybe I'll start out with that and get some satin for the last coat.

Great advise Don, Thanks!


----------



## Brit

I hope you haven't started finishing it yet Mauricio, because Don got it wrong.

It's 3 milk (semi-skimmed), 2 rootbeer, 1 mustard (English of course)

Hope you see this in time. )


----------



## Brit

Serously though, it is well worth going through your finishing regime on an offcut of oak before you do it for real and I mean take the practice piece through all the coats you are thinking of applying. You will then learn how to adjust your mix to get the desired result.


----------



## donwilwol

3 jacks, 2 coke , 1 rum.


----------



## Brit

Yeah that works too Don and after a couple of those, it ceases to be important anymore.


----------



## chrisstef

One bourbon, one scotch, one beer??


----------



## terryR

Hmmm…that's a newer version of the 3-2-1 I think I like…

Here's the mortise I botched up yesterday on my bench apron…only an inch too high…too deep as well.









after filling with pine, glue, and four letter words, it came out decent…I'm finally getting the hang of that 71…I mean, it has a depth stop…why not sneak up on the line genius? 









And, somehow, by the end of today, I have something resembling a bench in the shop. Please pardon my squeeze out…









Guess I better get off my arse and order that vice!!!


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio,

3 parts mineral spirits - just a solvent. the thinner it is the easier it is to wipe and the faster it dries and longer it takes to build a film

2 parts poly - the protective polymer / varnish. The higher the ratio the thicker it is and harder to wipe on but faster the film build up. I use satin but a gloss can be buff with steel wool to give even sheen.

1 part oil - I use tung oil but you can use BLO. Gives the oiled look. slows drying. Tung oil will dry hard eventually. I don't think BLO ever does.

NO ratio is wrong really. It just changes the properties of ease of application, time to dry, speed to build a film and stuff like that.

I mix it by the mason jar. Hope this helps.


----------



## lysdexic

3 amber ales
2 ipa's
1 high gravity Belgian


----------



## grfrazee

+1 to lysdexic for superior taste in beer.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You mean like this one?


----------



## lysdexic

Yeah Smitty, like that. Or take your pick….


----------



## AnthonyReed

Alright! Looking great Terry.


----------



## donwilwol

What, no Piels.


----------



## donwilwol

Terry, I missed your bench. Lookin good!!


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## mochoa

Terry, A cross grain patch? Oh man, I'm sorry to break it to you but that's going to blow up in about a week. Send the bench to me and I'll fix it for you…  JK, the bench is looking great man!

Andy, Milk, Root beer, and Mustard? Is that a recipe for milk paint? Sounds tasty.

English mustard? Isnt that the same as this?










I guess testing the finish first would be a good idea but that would require patience. I spent up all my patience on the wooden screw portion of the build, Now I want to get it DONE!

I'll try 1-1-1 at first and then play with it as I go.

And once that's done it will be 3 Rum - 2 Coke - 1 Lime. 

I wonder if the BLO gives it a little more grip? I'll ask Schwarz today when I see him at Highland Woodworking!

Thanks for all the advice fellas.


----------



## terryR

Thanks for your support of the boring bench I'm building, everyone…I'm certainly learning every day! Sorry, but no beer photos from me…not since 1985! 

Hey, has anyone experimented with powder wood dyes in that 3-2-1 mixture? Where's bhog?


----------



## terryR

Mauricio, the cross grain piece was laying less than a foot from my mistake…and fit perfectly! It was just too easy!

But, it's already covered with 3" of pine…no worries, but thanks a million. 

Want me to send ya my top for flattening?


> ?


----------



## Brit

Mauricio - A good English mustard has got a kick to it, unlike French mustard. You should feel it in your nose as you eat a ham and mustard sandwich and it should make your eyes water just a little bit.


----------



## donwilwol

mustard with a kick! Start with 1 part and adjust as desired.


----------



## mochoa

Terry I'm no expert but I think it will work. Test it out for sure.

I think the key to coloring the pine so its not blotchy is to "tone" it. I think that means coloring the finish rather than applying a penetrating stain to the wood. The catch to that is that areas with more varnish like where brush strokes overlap will be darker.

Pine is tricky, hopefully someone else has more experience doing this and can give you good advice.


----------



## bandit571

Wondering about a finish on a Cheap-assed Table's base. Seems to be either Oak, or ash. Maybe a few coats of BLO, to see what it looks like?

My 1 : 1: 1 1 pint Guiness draught, 1 pint guiness draught, 1 English Pint of Guiness Porter….Repeat as needed.


----------



## mochoa

Andy sound good, I'm going to have to try that one day.

The great thing about woodworking is that there is amost no error that cant be fixed!


----------



## DanKrager

Terry, in my experience, sealing the pine first with a sanding sealer or thinned shellac is the best defense against blotching. A wiping or gel stain can help control the uneven color outcomes too, but on pine the unevenness usually comes because of the difference in density of the grain, so you'd have to use a very narrow wipe…not so easy. 
In my industrial furniture finishing past, toner was about the third coat in a multi-coat process. It is almost a paint, but light on pigment so it is semi transparent allowing grain to show through but establishing a uniform color background for the dye and glaze to follow. It was ineffective as a first coat. It was applied over a sanded "sanding sealer" (to remove raised grain hairs) and a leveling sealer that prevented subsequent coat absorption (penetration).

Consider that any coloring on a workbench is going to quickly be scratched through with use. It depends on how you want the bench to look later whether you color it or not. I wouldn't.
DanK


----------



## LeChuck

Hey guys, just interjecting a question here as I'm moving forward with my bench base (my hands are hurting and tingling but I just have one more mortise/tenon to fit). I was going to make some big square tenons at the top of each leg to fit into the top, but frankly I'm sick of those mortises right now. My bench would end up an inch higher than expected, at a total of about 37.5 (but I have back pains so higher is good), but I think I now want to just put in some big dowels into the top of the legs and doing it that way (unglued). Does that work fine? How big should the dowels be? 3/4, 1 inch? Would some oak (probably red) from Home Depot work fine?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

David, without aprons / stretches between the tops of the legs, no mortises = wracking. Dowels, IMHO, won't cut it. I have buried mortises joining legs to top on my bench, even drawbored, and there is some wracking with heavier operations and I wished I had through-mortises. I'd say, pain and all, you're almost there. Finish strong, bro!


----------



## LeChuck

Another solution would be to make some notches at the top of each leg, like 1 inch deep by 2 inches (half the leg width) and run a board on each side as cross braces for the top, then drive lag bolts through that into the top. The bottom of the bench top is not flat. I'd have to shim it, but that wold be the same for the legs.


----------



## LeChuck

I have a top stretcher in the back, but not the front.

Darn I don't have enough length for through mortises, and wouldn't that make the top non removable? That say, that part is not really a concern for me. I was originally planning to have them about 1 inch or 1.5 inch long. Would that work?

I really don't want to make more mortises…......bwaaaaaaaahhhhhhh!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Stretcher in the back, stretchers front to back between the legs at the sides… That should work.


----------



## terryR

Mauricio, thanks for sharing that photo…make me feel better! 

Dan, thanks for those tips. I think I'm leaning to just a plain oil finish for now…let the pine age naturally…even though I hate the color of it now. But, that clear coat first sounds very important…glad you mentioned it!

...gonna wait to see what Mauricio does on that cherry.


----------



## DanKrager

Terry, if you're going to oil it, then a clear coat first is probably not necessary. 
DanK


----------



## mochoa

Blo and dark wax?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Watco's, Man!


----------



## LeChuck

Yeah, I have 2 stretchers on each side, 2 in the back, and one bottom front. They are all 5 1/4 inch wide, and the tenons are 3 1/4 wide and 2.5 deep. That said, now I'm worried about the dowels and…well….what's 4 more mortises after chopping 14… Would that work well with 1 or 1.5 inch deep tenons at the top? They would be 4 inches wide and guess, and perhaps about 2 inches thick….Would they work just like that or would I have to run some bolts into them through the top. I'm trying to avoid any visible hardware. I already decided that I'm going to drawbore the front stretchers too as I'm sure I really won't like to see bolts.


----------



## lysdexic

David,

I am not that dogmatic in my galootness. Use a router.

My bench has 1" stub tenons on the legs with corresponding router made mortises in the top. THe top is unglued and attached via Spax screws to the top stretchers.


----------



## LeChuck

Yeah, I could use my little Dewalt hand held router if I take some time to setup a jig or a template. My top stretchers are not up against the top though, so I can't screw through them.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Scott - I am feeble of mind; i had read your question but had forgotten by the time i arose from my computer chair. My motivation was to replace this one:









Free shipping helped in the decision too.

Mauricio - Outstanding picture!


----------



## Mosquito

lol Mauricio, your dovetail fixing picture was great


----------



## mochoa

LOL, thanks fellas, Here is the first one I cut so you know I'm not totally spastic. Only one little plug.








This one took a lot of paring to get it to fit so I got impatient when cutting the second one. Thought I could get right off the saw. Wrong!

David, rout those mortises if you can. I'm not galoot at all when it comes to mortices. Router is my favorite, especially for huge workbench mortises.


----------



## LeChuck

Thanks for the idea Mauricio about the dovetail fixing. It happens that the old bench top I bought has very sloppy box joints in the corners that the previous owner filled with some yellow…filler. It's really yucky, kinda looks like some of that yellow insulating foam oozing out. I'll scrape that stuff out and fill in the gaps with some thin slices of fir, and I have plenty of those now…

For mortises, well, making them by hand taught me 2 things, first some experience making mortises by hand (and I got better at it pretty fast), but also that unlike visible joints like dovetails, making mortises by hand is mostly a waste of time and energy. That said, it felt easier to just reach for the chisel and mallet than setting up to use a power tool. I'm going to see what I can do with the little router. I have a much bigger Triton, but I am not pulling it out of its table…


----------



## mochoa

David, its true that for most one off projects, hand tools are often faster. But this is not a small project. Workbenches need big mortises and you need all the help you can get. IMHO ;-)


----------



## mochoa

I was chillin with The Schwarz today, talking workbenches….








He was giving me some tips on workbench finishes.


----------



## chrisstef

If the galoot is so strong within brother David channel the overseas wisdom of brother Andy and grab a brace and auger bit. Matter of fact, im switching my terminoology when speaking of brace bits, they shall be called brits instead.

Terry, im diggin the bench. Im about to embark on a pine adventure of my own. Finally getting to make those pine doors for our pantry closets. I signed up for a lesson under Professor B. Hog in shellac 101. I just got the flakes in the mail from shellac.net. 1/2 lbs. of amber/orange for that hue of aged pine. It'll be a race to the "finish". (Dork alert).

Nice Maur - he didnt try n countersink your dog hole did he?


----------



## mochoa

Stef, no but he did let me plow his groove. I mean… he let me use his plow plane, the one in the picture. Pretty sweet.


----------



## Mosquito

That would be pretty cool Mauricio. Stuff like that doesn't seem to happen up here lol
-

I also used a bit and brace to start my workbench mortises. They are ugly as all get out on the bottom, but then again, who cares? lol


----------



## mochoa

I'm planning on applying the finish to my bench tonight! The questions I have are:

-Will cold temperatures effect the curing of my 1-1-1 mixture? When I say cold I'm talking about a frosty 35 degrees we are supposed to get down to at 7am. Actually it stayed above 40 until 2am. So maybe I get 3 hours of above 40 degree temp. 
-My other concern is the fumes, there will be a lot of them so I will have to keep the garage door open or at least partially with an exhaust fan going? Especially since the water heater is in the garage and there is a pilot light and all. 
-Lastly is humidity any concern? Or is that only an issue with Shellac? We are getting a little rain so it's going to be about 80% humidity

The can of BLO suggests that it will cure at 40 degrees. Nothing noted about humidity. 
The can of Minwax ploy says 77 degrees is ideal but that lower temps and higher humidity will just lengthen curing time. 
The Mineral Spirits doesn't seem to add any complications that I can tell do to any of the above factors.

I'm not sure if I should just go for it or wait for warmer temperatures before applying the finish.

I might have to wait till tomorrow AM that way I get the whole day with above 40 temps.

Does anyone here have experience using any of these products in the cold? Any issues noted?


----------



## donwilwol

I'd wait. With blo it doesn't matter, it won't cure, but it won't hurt, it will just cure when it warms up. Poly is something different. If it freezes before it cures it could be a mess. With your mixture it may be ok, but I wouldn't risk it for something that large.


----------



## Mike53E

First steps of doing things! Since buying wood and leaving it in the garage doesn't count.








See wonder pup in the corner of the image
Took my stack of 2×10 SYP to the woodshop on base to plane joint and rip to make boards for a 4 1/4" top. Tomorrow I shall begin to glue things together. 
I'm had hoped to have figured out sketch up to show a beautiful 3d cad image of my plans but my wife uses the laptop for school so I am relegated to the iPad (pitiful existence, I know.) which has no sketch up. 
So I've done the next best thing which is draw plans on graph paper and take a picture with the iPad!



























A list of assumptions and constants.
Longitudinal is the long way on the bench top lateral is short way on the bench top. Vertical is… Vertical.
The material is SYP top is 2×10s cut to 73 in 72 in is final length. Legs will be two 2×6s laminated cut to a 30deg angle then through dovetail/tenoned into the top. The longitudinal stretcher will be a 2×4 with a tusked through tenon (tusks not depicted) 
Not depicted are a leg vice. Either a wooden screw if I can make it on the lathe, or boatmans' 8*Vertical wedge. I thought I would angle it so it is congruent with the leg, but I fear that might put the chop and clamping surface too close to the center of the bench. The other possibility is to make it vertical so the center of the chop would be approx 4 inches left of the through dovetail tenon.
I intend to put a grizzly face vice on the end with a chop thick enough for a dog hole. 
Exactly where the dog holes (round) will go is TBD 
A rabbet will be cut in the longitudinal stretchers to facilitate a shelf for storage.
Concerns I have and places that may need further development is 1 the strength of the mortise within the tenon to hold the tusks in the longitudinal stretchers. I imagine there will be a great deal of force on those as the weight bearing down on the bench will try to force the legs to spread (giggiddy) will that mortise be a point of potential failure?
How thick do I need to make. How small can I make the shoulders of the tenon (between the legs)? And still be stable?
Laterally, is one stretcher with the half blind dovetail sufficient since the bench top itself provides significant rigidity at the top? Or would a second lateral stretcher help?
One final question for the masses, is if I intend to use a table saw to cut dados for the through dovetail and tenon prior to glue up of the top, how would you index the boards to maintain line up through the lamination process? It seems doing so would be a hell of a lot easier than chopping through 4.25" of pine by hand but difficult to keep all of these aligned so your base would remain square? 
That's it, if anyone has any suggestions or sees anything screwed up in the plan feel free to let me know.


----------



## ksSlim

Under 50 F, poly doesn't do well. Think thin stickey jello.
Even @ 70, humidity over 50% increases poly cure time.
MS evaporation is directly proporational to temp. Higher temp faster evaporation.

I use 3-2-1 mix in colder temps and just put on more coats.

BLO "cures" polmerizes with oxygen.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Don and Slim.

Slim, so are you saying wait? or 3-2-1 is better in the cold than 1-1-1?


----------



## LeChuck

chrisstef, I do have a brace, but no auger bit. I'll try to get it started with the router and see. My tenons for the top of the legs are all cut now, everything chamfered, and now I need to sand so I can then glue up the whole thing. I'm getting scared just saying it. I don't think it will glue up square but hopefully not too bad.


----------



## mochoa

Mike, I love the Moravian bench design and I think an angled leg vise would be awesome.

The main thing that makes me nervous about your design though is the angled tenons. 30 degrees is going to mean a lot of grain run out on the tenon and make it pretty weak. I think the original Moravian design had a short stretcher at the top with that short stretcher bolted to the top.


----------



## Mike53E

http://blog.lostartpress.com/2012/09/23/will-myers-moravian-workbench/#

Bill Meyers actually has three lateral short stretchers. But, his top appears to be attached by dowels. Which seems less than ideal for the clamping pressure applied by a leg vice.
With a 30 degree angle 46% of the tenon would have some grain run out but it's still approximately 1 inch thick and there Are two per leg….
Do u have any suggestions for increasing the strength of those through tenons? A slightly reduced angle? 
How likely is that unsupported grain to fail? 
Is there anyone on here who does a lot restoration work that can speak to points of failure in joints?
I suppose I could simply angle the through mortise. If I were to use a miter gauge and a dado stack I imagine it would certainly be possible. I'm having trouble visualizing so many compound angles in final appearance.


----------



## ksSlim

I have a small space heater in my garage/shop. I'll able to keep the temp up to 50F unless outside temp is sub 20.
I can use 321 almost any time in winter and fall. The poly portion can take 2 days to cure when shop temp is low 50s. When temps are high 60s, I can recoat easily in 24 hours.


----------



## mochoa

Mike his top is attached by dowels but but if you look closely the preassure from the leg vise is actually taken by that thick board that inserts into the top with that stub tenon. So the leg vise is not pushing the top laterally.

I see what your saying though, about half the grain is strong enough to hold everything together. You'd probably be alright.


----------



## mochoa

Slim, I have a space heater but I'm a little paranoid about having all those fumes trapped in the garage with a space heater especially on a project of this size and that many fumes.


----------



## waho6o9

I'd wait Mauricio.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah I'm waiting, So the bench is pretty much done except for finish and leather on the vises. I'll update the blog soon.


----------



## waho6o9

Good call.


----------



## mochoa

Oh by the way. Talked to The Schwarz yesterday. He says he does 1-1-1 and uses Spar Varnish, not the Poly you see in his video (if you've see the 18 century bench by hand video). He says the Spar Varnish is less plasticy.

However for the last year he has been taking a toothing plane to the top. Its tough to do with a shiny new workbench but once your over that stage… says now its so grippy that its very easy to plane a board against a single dog, says you'll never go back… Still not sure if I would ever do that though.


----------



## BrandonW

So he's saying you should texturize the bench for better grip?


----------



## mochoa

yeah


----------



## mochoa

He knows no one is going to do it on a new bench though, he didnt either.

I'm sure it would work great its just that it would make the bench pretty ugly.


----------



## LeChuck

I'm getting ready to drill holes for my drawbore stuff and one more annoyance: my drill press has too much runout. It's not a lot of runout, but if you drill a hole to put a precisely sized dowel through, it's loose. The 3/8 holes are a bit oversize. Will that fill out a bit with added glue and if I do some extra pounding on the peg heads? This drill press has annoyed me from the start, should have returned it.


----------



## waho6o9

maybe a use a 5/16 bit and with the run out it might work.


----------



## LeChuck

Nah, I tried and it's just too small. The bigger and longer the bit, the more runout, so the difference is not as much with a smaller bit. I'd probably be fine if I had bought 5/16 dowels.


----------



## Brit

David - Whenever I've drawbored, I've always used a bradpoint bit in a cordless drill and it has worked fine. The point on the bit should stop it running out. Consider putting a bit of masking tape over where you are going to drill the hole, mark the center with an awl, put the point in the hole, hold the drill steady and press the trigger. The tape helps to give a clean entry hole.


----------



## mochoa

I wouldn't worry too much about the runout. I drilled mine with a brace and bit so that causes all kind of runout. I do have very small gaps around the dowel but it doesn't bother me.

When you plane them flush just plane in the direction of the gap, the small bit of chipping will fill the space. You can always push some glue and sanding dust in there if it really bothers you.


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## LeChuck

Yeah, no, there would be more runout even with my hand-held drill, and I know for certain that I wouldn't be able to drill them straight. I am drilling with a brad point bit indeed, and marked holes with an awl, however, I didn't mark the holes in my test piece and the bit wanted to follow the grain… Alright, I'm going to go ahead and rill and then I'll deal with filling the gaps if there are any. I'll probably use a big-ish offset to make up for it, like 1/8…


----------



## mochoa

Also if the peg is going into a blind hole you can peen the peg a bit so it fills the hole more.


----------



## Brit

Leave the dowel a bit proud, drip some water onto the end grain, let it soak in for a minute and tap the end grain with a ball pein hammer. Allow to dry and plane flush.


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## LeChuck

Thanks for the tips. I will try that. Yeah, I was planning for non through holes.


----------



## LeChuck

Look Ma, no clamps!

It's glued and pegged finally.

I don't have a lot of space to take photos of larger stuff.










On the drawboring I give myself a C-. The offset might have been a bit too much, I'm not sure. One peg broke, and a few of them didn't really drive into the other side of the mortise, but there are 2 pegs per joint so I think it will be fine. I think the larger offset plus the fact that the holes were a bit oversize allowed some pegs to go in at a small angle and jam. I'll try the hammering technique to fill the extra gaps. It's almost square too. I expected that to be worse.

It was a bit sporty. On the last 3 remaining long stretchers when I put the "cap" on at the end, one tenon really didn't want to go in and I had frightening visions of the glue setting real fast and ruining my project. I jumped up and sat on it and it decided to give.

I have not made the mortises into the top yet. Maybe I'll do that next, but I also need to flatten the top of the bench and the apron. It would be better if I assemble the whole bench for that but I want to straighten and flatten the apron *after* I do the top (to make sure it's square to the top) and I don't feel like doing that sideways…

Then I have to also refit the big vise inset into the apron…

Oh…I can't wait to put some oil on this thing. Natural or dark…not sure.

One thing that's a bummer is that after chopping the mortises, I don't have an area of the workshop that doesn't have wood chips, and the douglas fir being kinda soft, it now has little holes and dimples all over the place. A bit of character to start with I guess


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## terryR

Wow, David, you are a fast worker…that bench is looking sweet!

Now, I wish I had drawbored my MT joints…next time!


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## LeChuck

Thanks! I was hoping to be all done by the end of the week though, but there's still quite a bit to do…I'm also planning to put in a shelf at the bottom, then a cabinet with some drawers later. That will help with weight and stability, even if it feels very strong already.


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## mochoa

David its looking awesome man! Are those walnut dowels? Very nice touch if so.


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## LeChuck

Yeah, they are walnut, 3/8" each. I read white oak would be better but I thought the contrast would spice up the douglas fir a bit, and it's stronger than the doug fir it's joining anyway.


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## mochoa

I just finished my build! For those who havent seen it already. I just need to apply the finish once its gets warmer. 
http://lumberjocks.com/mochoa/blog/34333


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## LeChuck

That looks great!


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## Boatman53

Looks great Maurico, a big accomplishment. 
Jim


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## AnthonyReed

David your bench is looking great. Way to go.

Outstanding Mauricio.


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## Brit

Nice work David. That looks like a really solid base.


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## 9FINGERTIM

IM AFRAID MY BENCHES ARENT NEARLY AS BEAUTIFUL AS ANY OF ALL YOURS. GOT ONE I N MY WORKSHOP AND ONE ON MY WORKSHOP PORCH THEY ARE MADE OF 2X4S 4X4S AND THREE QUARTER IN PLYWOOD, THEY SHOW APPROXIMATELY 300 HUNDRED DIFFERENT COLORS OF OLD PAINT AND GLUE AND NUMEROUS NAIL HOLES AND BOLT HOLES FROM THINGS THAT I WANTED TO HOLD STILLTHEY FREQUNTLY HAVE CATS LAYING ON THEM IBOLT DOWN MY ROUTER AND JIG WHE I MAKE PICTURE FRAMES OR WHATEVER LOTS OF GRANITE DUST IN ALL THE CRACKS I WOULD DEARLY LOVE TO HAVE A REALLY NICE ONE LIKE THOSE PICTURED BUT I PROBABLY WOULDENT KEEP IT THAT WAY TRIED TO TAKE A PICTURE OF MY BENCHES BU T COULDENT SEE THEM UNDER ALL THE STUFF I HAD PILED ON THEM


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## DanKrager

L'il bit o jealousy headed your way, Mauricio. That is a bench like I'm beginning to think more about. It's beautiful!
DanK


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## terryR

+1 on the jealousy! Hope it warms up for ya soon, Mauricio!


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## waho6o9

Beautiful work Mauricio!

Congratulations on a fine build that will last a life time.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, Maur. Absolutely stunning to behold! I wouldn't kick it out of my shop… Well, maybe I would. My bench might just look bad next to yours! Congrats! Seriously well done!


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## GlennsGrandson

*Tim*, I reckon that any bench is worthy of posting pictures on here, the more stuff on it the more fun to look at it!

Welcome to LJ's!
In my opinion, nobody likes READING IN ALL CAPS. Not trying to be rude, just letting you know. 

Post the dirty pictures, we love them all!

Also, granite dust? tell me more about this


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## WhoMe

Tim, a workbench is a work bench. No matter what it is. I have one that is on a cabinet covered in Formica that has cuts, burn marks, drops of finish, paint, paint over spray and who knows what else. My other one is my table saw on wheels that even though I lock the wheels, any decent push moves it around the garage floor. Half the time it has junk piled on it also. But hey, I make do with what I have until I can get the time and money to build a actual workbench.

So, don't feel bad. Things could always be worse. you could not have any work bench.


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## Iguana

I am planning on starting my bench build in 6-8 weeks or so. It will be a Roubo with Benchcrafted vises and a Crisscross, basically going for massive and solid. Built to outlive me and my great-great-grandchildren. (As I don't have grandchildren yet, it's an assumption that my lineage will live that long 

The base will be Jatoba. Heavy and strong. 7-stretcher design (top & bottom all round, except for top front). I was planning on using mortice & tenons to join the legs and stretchers, drawboring the joints for extra strength.

I've drawbored using oak pins into pine. No worries - the pine deforms a bit and the oak deforms a bit to make everything pull together tight.

Drawboring jatoba would be a different beast. While I may be able to obtain a wood harder than jatoba, no wood is hard enough that a 3/4" pin will cause a 3" or 4" M/T joint to deform. Steel - perhaps.

So, I'm wondering if anyone here has any thoughts on pinning the M/T'd jatoba. Some ideas I've had:
1) Very slight offset, less than 1/32", with an oak pin. Use 2×1/2" pins, let the oak deform?
2) Don't drawbore, just pin?
3) 1/4" or 3/8" brass or copper pins, with a very small drawbore offset? Well, copper might be too soft…


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## 9FINGERTIM

hEY GRANT,sorry about the caps, i just now learned how to undo the caps lock the granite dust comes from using my outside table/bench as a stand for my tilesaw. i buy or scrounge granite remnants from the local granite sellers (llike the cutouts from sinks for 5 bucks or so ) and use them to make granite topped tables or small stands. i also cut granite dry with an old circ. saw and a diamond blade{probably very hard on the old plastic saw <but it was old when i bought it(5 bucks) and its cut an awful lot of granite (several other saws waiting in the wings)i make bases out of whatever ,an old copper fire extinguisher, a cut down pole lamp or4 in turned spindles i buy in bulk from a local salvage store. i dont have the finnesse to cut circles in granite yet [or the tools)so all of my tops are square or octagonal. iknow it cruel to abuse power tools bu the garage sale saws i get are usually b&d s and you guys dont seem to like the anyway


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

iguana - hickory pins.

Tim- No, it's not cruel to abuse electrical tools of the kind you've described.  Now hand tools, that's a different story….


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## mochoa

Thanks for the compliments fellas.

Smitty, I don't know, that's a pretty damn handsome bench you got, hard to beat that.

Tim, you bench sounds nicer than the one I've used for the last ~4yrs. Mine was 2×4's and OSB. I also liked the ability to screw stops down wherever I wanted but they would eventually pull out of the OSB. You got to start somewhere right.

Iguana, Jatoba legs sounds crazy, on a bench this big, that's got to be tough on your tools. I've only used Jatoba on small projects so I don't know how it would be to drawbore. Shoot a note to Derek Cohen, He built most of his bench out of exotic wood.


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## dbray45

Tim - my current bench is a culmination of two other old benches. The only thing that was new was some of the plywood that I wasn't going to use somewhere else. I have had 6 or so different styles of benches over the years. My point is that as long as it is doing what you you want or need, its all good.

My current bench has drawers. When I upgrade to a new bench, this one will get a new piece of plywood and become an assembly bench of sorts. The "work" bench will be the new bench. Being flexible is the key and always be looking at what needs to be changed and why. I do the same thing as I work.


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## terryR

I made a bit of progress on my bench top yesterday…the photo below shows the top just held in place with clamps…no glue yet. I'm trying to decide on how large I want my tool well. It's about 3×7" in this photo…










I've also decided I don't like all the end grain of the top visible, so am sketching up (on paper) a horizontal end cap which will also add side walls to the well. Probably just a butt joint at this stage of the build.

I also tried some dark walnut Watco Danish oil on cut off pine yesterday…yuck! Maybe I'll mix some 3-2-1 today and experiment?

Edit…the top is over sized in length…won't stick out when completed…


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## donwilwol

Terry, its looking good. Why the need to stain? Let age do its thing.


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## mochoa

Looks beefy Terry.

This is just crazy talk, would have to be tested, but what about if after your first coat of 3-2-1 (after the wood is sealed) you try the Walnut Watco? It might give it some nice color without penetrating the wood and making it blotchy? But what do I know?


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## mochoa

Wow, I was searching for Antique Pine workbenches for Terry to see the aged color and found this.
http://www.rubylane.com/item/332834-X-W635/Rustic-1890s-Country-Pine-Carpenter


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## mochoa

You know, I think these antique galleries are applying finish to these old weathered benches they find.

The one above is only $1500.


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## AnthonyReed

You are kicking as$ Terry! Nice work.


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## terryR

Thanks, guys!

Mauricio, yeah I've thought about a clear coat of some sort, then colored oil. Dunno yet…

Love that old bench from rubyLane…would make a nice plane till!


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## LeChuck

I tried both Watco natural and dark walnut on a piece of fir for my workbench base. I'm not too big on the natural color of the fir myself.

The natural made it nicer and warmer, not that great but better… The dark walnut made it very blotchy.

I think that it might work ok with a coat or 2 of natural then some dark walnut. In my case, the fir might get a bit darker or redder with time so I might just go with the natural finish and leave it at that. I'm just hoping that once its oiled (and perhaps waxed) it won't get too much of that ugly grey-ish color that the old boards had before I cut them up. I tend to prefer reddish, medium brown stuff.


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## yuridichesky

Terry, it's almost ready! Really cool!


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## yuridichesky

You, guys, doing such a great progress on you benches, I just have to catch up 

Legs ready for M&T:









(see more details here: http://lumberjocks.com/yuridichesky/blog/34374)


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## Mosquito

Nice Yuri, looks like it's coming along great!


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## AnthonyReed

Right on Yuri! You are off to a running start. Looking good.


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## yuridichesky

Mos, thanks again!

Tony, thank you very much!


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## mochoa

Its looking great Yuri. Thats shapping up to be one of the best small benches I've seen.


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## waho6o9

Awesome bench Yuri!


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## mochoa

Have you guys every seen a leg vise with a wheel that supports the chop but where the wheel rides on the floor? I'm sure I've see something like that somewhere.

I think I could use one of those. As my vise is now, the parallel guide screw bumps across the hole in the leg. It not an issue but the vise doesn't move in and out as smooth as it could and it might damage the screw after a while.

I wonder if I could use one of those polyurethane wheels like they use for the bar guides except invert it so it rides on the ground?


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## Boatman53

Mauricio… How much room do you have on the chop below the lower screw? Is there room to notch the chop to house the wheel with the axle through the chop. It would be nice and compact but you would have to be right on with the height. I have seen it before and considered it on mine but instead put it behind the leg. It will make a difference.
Jim

Edit: on second thought turn the wheel from high density plastic larger than you think you need, install it, measure what you really need then turn the wheel to size. You could use plywood instead.


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## mochoa

That's a good thought Jim, I 'll take a look and see how much material I have down there but I'd like to make it adjustable if I can.


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## mochoa

I just checked and I have a good 4 inches below the lower screw so all I need to do is make one of those wooden holders for the wheel and mortise it in. Where do I get one of those plastic wheels?


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## Boatman53

Do you have a lathe? If not I could turn you one out of white high density plastic that I have. Just tell my what size. It is very slippery stuff and all slow moving so I wouldn't worry about bearings. I do wish I had it in black though.
Jim


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## BrandonW

Mauricio you can use a skateboard wheel. Or, just thin down the parallel guide so it doesn't get stuck. That's what I did with my bench.


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## BrandonW

Nevermind what I said about the parallel guide. I forgot yours was a screw.


----------



## Boatman53

Brandon… He doesn't have a guide he's got a screw. In fact Mauricio you might need to make that hole a little oval in the vertical direction, or just a bit larger.
Jim


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## BrandonW

Jim, I had just remembered before your post. See the previous comment. But I do think shaping the whole into an oval is a good idea.


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## Boatman53

Yea I was just a moment behind you. Spent too much time thinking.


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## lysdexic

Catching up:

Mauricio, man, you bench looks great! Congrats to you sir.


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## mochoa

Jim, yeah I have a lathe. Hmm, so I would just have to turn it and put a rod through the middle? I can do that. I guess I could use 2" square about 1" thick. I'd really appreciate it! Your too good to me Jim!

I'm going to have to start stepping up my "paying it forward" game.

The hole in the leg is big enough and the lower screw is centered well when the vise is closed all the way, I guess I could elongate the hole but it would be ugly, that's a lot of end grain to file through.


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## mochoa

Scott thanks you sir!


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## mochoa

Scott, I just looked through your bench build on what you used for finish (and I'm sure you mentioned this here a couple of days ago) but looks like you used 3-2-1 (MS-Poly-Oil) followed by 2-1 (MS-Poly). So you are a little heavier on the varnish side. Looks great by the way. I know you were going for the lightest color finish possible.

Are you happy with how that's working out? Not too slippery? Not too much film?

I'm was thinking about the 1-1-1, I tested it out on some scraps and I'm realizing that its almost all BLO with a little bit of Poly.

MS evaporates leaving nothing, the Poly is pretty thin meaning that its thinned with MS, and the other third is BLO.

I'm thinking that since I want to fill the grain more on the top I may use 3-2-1 for the first coat and sand it in to fill the pores some. I'm thinking the extra Poly with the sanding dust will fill a little better.

Does this make sense?


----------



## lysdexic

Maur,

This is my thought process. I dont know if it is accurate but made sense to me.

3: mineral spirits makes it wipeable and forgiving. Results in a thinner coats which dries faster. A bonus at these temps.

2: poly. protective barrier. good against moisture (think beer bottles - which is inevitable)

1: I used tung oil. BLO basically the same in that it gives minimal protection but gives you the oil "look."

The first coat I wet sand with 400 grit w/d paper not so much for the super smooth surface but to fill the pores as you suggest. I sand until I get a finish-saw dust slurry and then wipe. The mineral spirits makes it very easy to work.

After the first coat the surface is, for the most, part sealed. Also, the BLO/tung oil has given you the oil look. I am not sure what subsequent BLO apllications will do for you because the surface wood fibers are coated with poly. Thus, I didnt use any oil after the first coat. Plus, I think it increases the drying time with equivocal benefit.

The goal of the the subsequent coats was to build the poly. Use a satin finish. I did scuff sand between coats but this was to get rid of dust nibs and not to fill grain.

If you really desire a deep oil look then you may consider soaking the bench in BLO. After that cures you can go back and wet sand a poly finish.

Obviously there is no right answer. Yet, you can adjust the ratios based on tempurature, aesthetics and level of protection.


That said, I could see myself "refreshing" the bench top with a toothed blade in the future. However, I know the finish on the other bench surfaces will last for a long time.

I hope this helps.


----------



## AnthonyReed

^ Yes. That is the stuff. Now i need the ability to favorite specific/individual posts. Thanks for the refresher Mr. b Yo.


----------



## lysdexic

BTW - this is not my idea. It was taught to me at basic wodworking class and another class on finishing.

I am very happy with the results except the top. I just know that it is going to get beat up and wonder to myself - why all the trouble? I figure the finish on the top will be temporary. It sure looks good for now.


----------



## BrandonW

I finished my bench with a 3-2-1 of blood, sweat, and tears. That's how a man does it. Or actually just Tung Oil and BLO.

If I were you, Mauricio, I'd follow Scott's advice rather than mine.


----------



## lysdexic

The blood, when applied properly and allowed to cure, does give remarkable grain enhancement. Plus it leaves a deep red tint resembling brazilian rosewood. You know, like after you have a bloody nose and you snort and then nearly gag on the blood clot in your throat. If you squish that clot through your teeth and then look at your smile in the mirror.

That is the color.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks for the breakdown Scott. I would just add that the BLO is supposed to protect against water based glues, so they dont stick. Also the Poly besides abrasion resistance is supposed to protect against stains.

What you say makes a lot of sense and I'm leaning towards the 3-2-1 because the grain fill should be better. Then maybe following up with light coats of 1-1-1.

But what about slickness on your bench? I it an issue?

Thanks Brandon, I usually revert to straight BLO whenever I'm in doubt but I think at least a little Poly will be good to give a little protect against stains. This bench is already well impregnated with blood. ;-)


----------



## mochoa

That was kind of gross Scott. Thus the silence.


----------



## lysdexic

Just kind of? I will have to try harder next time :^)


----------



## chrisstef

That one even got me Scott. Well done buddy.


----------



## lysdexic

I apologize Mauricio.


----------



## mochoa




----------



## AnthonyReed

^ That's more the spirit Mauricio.

Don't criticize the man's work; art is not always understood at first. Let it sink in a bit before passing judgment.


----------



## mochoa

LOL, no need to apologize Scott. I wasnt offended.


----------



## mochoa

But seriously look at that Monkey's Baalls!


----------



## chrisstef

Now you guys understand why i have to use an elevated seat at work . Some days are a real drag.

Friggin callin for up to 2' of snow on Friday and my lumber wont be milled until Monday. Total waste of a great opportunity. Now im gonna have to do stuff like paint and cut down shelving.


----------



## Brit

Mauricio - Nice balls, shame about the face. Seriously though, that monkey must work out. Great definition.


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## 9FINGERTIM

one reason l dont send in a picture of my workbench i that i would have to take my upside down sabresaw(old name for jigsaw) out of my vise where i keep it clamped in. with a thin blade. it is my version of a scrollsaw only more powerfull and much easier for inside cuts,iput cardboard around it (keeping it away from any vent holes)annd loc the switch on i plug it into one of those plug strips with a switch.this practice is unsitely unsafe and the kind of mickey mouse rube goldberg ism that separates skilled craftsmen from us folks who do it on the cheap


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## mochoa

Ha, I've done the old upside down jigsaw thing. Its scary as shiit. I hate when a piece of wood gets bound on the blade, the blade grabs it, picks it up and slams it up and down on your finger like 10 before you can react.


----------



## terryR

Hell yeah, upside down jig saw, upside down belt sander, hand held drills, I even clamped the 5" angle grinder to the bench ONCE.


----------



## BrandonW

I've done the belt sander in the vise a number of times. I even bought a particularly boxy belt sander (Bosch) for that purpose. But the upside down sabre saw is just asking for trouble. Post the bench anyways, Tim.


----------



## terryR

Hey guys, without making me re-read 50 blogs…

How large is your tool well?


----------



## mochoa

My well is 6.5" wide and 4" deep.


----------



## Mosquito

Mine will be 2.75" deep, and I believe 8" wide.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, M and M…I was just re-reading blog entries from BOTH youz guyz!


----------



## Boatman53

Terry on the Ulmia bench it is 6"wide and about 3" deep, on the Ash bench I built it is 7 1/2" wide and 1 3/4" deep. The deeper tray tends to hide things more along the near corner. But the shallower tray doesn't hold a plane below the level of the top. It really does seem that everything has some sort of tradeoff. That is what stopped me from building a bench for so many years.
Jim


----------



## LeChuck

I've been planing and planing and planing…mountains and valleys…....

Not able to put as much work into it this week but it's progressing. The top is not yet attached to the base.

I think some low spots will remain and I'll just sand them a bit to remove the old finish.


----------



## terryR

David, you are a very fast worker! Top is looking pretty good to me…love your jointer! 

Thanks, Jim. My well will be…ummm…somewhere in the middle of all the above numbers.

Has anyone used mdf or some sort of ply for the floor of the tool well? Yeah, I prefer real wood, but my floor has only two real points of support from beneath, and I'm worried 3/4" pine will twist and bend and warp and check and…


----------



## mochoa

I used a nice wide poplar board but Birch ply would also look nice.


----------



## Mosquito

I was planning on using poplar myself as well, if not plywood.


----------



## LeChuck

Haha, thanks Terry  I was thinking that I'm pretty slow on the contrary. I'm really looking forward to have this workbench ready for use so I can move on to other projects…

The grain on the top is flowing in all directions so it's funky to plane, and on some boards, it just tears up in big splinters. When I'm done, I plan on fixing and filling some holes with a mixture of sanding dust and liquid hide glue.


----------



## terryR

Hmmm…birch ply sounds nice.

Yeah, David, I glued up my top with the grain in all directions, too! Gonna be a challenge to really flatten with my hand plane skills…


----------



## mochoa

My grain is a little squirly too but most of it runs towards the wagon vise. Planing it wasnt an issue when the tool tray was off but it will be tricky with it on.

Unless the tearout is really bad I would just leave it. As lont as it doesnt effect the flatness. Get your plane irons sharper and take lighter cuts.


----------



## Mosquito

yeah, I don't know if I misread, or just forgot to check, or what, but the grain on one of the [laminated] legs for my bench has the grain running in opposite directions. Oops


----------



## terryR

Random Premature Bench Shot

I just couldn't resist all that wide open space…even though the top is only held on by clamps… I thought it was time to put it to use! Nothing hard-core…just fletching and attaching newly knapped points to some wooden arrow shafts. 









Although, I like to brag on these wooden shafts since they were made using only hand tools! They aren't perfectly straight, but damn close. And certainly well made enough to be aesthetically deadly! I used a Stanley surform plane to size the shafts photographed, which are all made from hickory lumber, but plan to use a beading tool next time…

What's the point?









A little corner-notched piece of Flint Ridge Flint.


----------



## donwilwol

How did you live without it before terry. I really like the arrow heads!!

This picture's for you. Taken about 4 minutes ago.


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## AnthonyReed

A ton of win going on at Terry's! Wow man.

Very nice Don. Congratulations it is gorgeous!


----------



## LeChuck

I tried to go with light cuts but unfortunately it looked like it would take about 2 years to flatten the top. I should probably have done a sharpening pass on both planes right before I started on the top, but impatience won out. I'm almost done with that now. It may very well have a twist in the end, but I don't have anything that I can reliably use as winding sticks and if it's straight enough for my 24 inch straight edge, then I think I can live with that…I don't have anything longer.

Once the top is flattened, I'm going to try to do the front apron flat and perpendicular to the top. I was waiting on that before attaching the top to the base, so it wold be flush out front, just in case I have to plane the front apron more than I had anticipated.


----------



## terryR

Don, looks like the jointer of my dreams!
well, except for…


----------



## mochoa

Great bench shots Terry! Those arrows are amazing. What beautiful stone.

You know I found an arrow head when out walking a trail with my son. The tip was broken off though. Is there any collector value to something like that?


----------



## terryR

Sorry, Mauricio, but probably NOT worth a lot as described…gotta see the photo, ya kow? 

Actually, if you see such a thing on state owned land…pick it up only to check it out…putting it in your pocket could result in a big fine these days. If you find one out in the wild that's pristine and 6" long…well…PM me!


----------



## yuridichesky

Terry, your workbench is not completely born yet but already under load!

Same thing here  I even started to think that I need some finish on my leg-less bench top right now otherwise it'll show significant wear upon completion.


----------



## GMatheson

Today I ordered a pair of holdfasts from a local blacksmith here in Ontario, Canada *Rio Bravo Ironworks*
(pic from website)









These will go with my workbench that I started last spring and ended up using as a place to pile extra wood so the project got stalled for a while. I got it cleared off now so it's back to work.


----------



## lysdexic

That looks great GMath! Are you going to do through tenons on the back slab as well?


----------



## GMatheson

That's the plan. It would look a little silly with only one side done. Those thru tenons have 3/4" dowel pins too


----------



## lysdexic

I really like it. What vises are you going with?


----------



## AnthonyReed

Very nice Gmath.


----------



## mochoa

GM the holdfasts and bench are looking great. Is it going to be a split top?


----------



## GMatheson

For the leg vise I got this on sale for a whopping $16








I plan on using some version of the benchcrafted roller system with some wheels from lee valley

For the tail vise I haven't actually decided on what to use. I have another screw vise laying around or I might just take the front vise I have on my other bench and use that. Think I might need to put some more thought into the tail vise.


----------



## GMatheson

Yes Mauricio it will be a split top bench


----------



## terryR

Looks awesome, GMath, very beefy!

I started gluing my bench top on yesterday…will finish today…

You guys, please, talk me INTO adding a leg vise! I've procrastinated buying the face vise I want from TFWW for a whopping $230, and now my tool budget is tight due to truck repairs…The leg vise looks cheaper, I know it's stronger, and I really want to be able to clamp flush to my front apron.

How hard is the labor for a leg vise which uses a simple peg system at the base? It honestly looks so simple to me that I'm afraid I'm overlooking something. 

Edit…Oh, I should mention that I have Schwarz's Bench book with a couple of photographic examples…


----------



## Boatman53

Terry, the leg vise is simple. Period. Build it with the pin as the least expensive way to start, then when you get tired of moving the pin the chain adjuster is not hard to retrofit. Then that is the end of the pin.
Jim


----------



## Mosquito

Well, you've already chopped mortises in the legs, I'd say that's about the extent of the difficulty. But then again, I haven't made mine yet either lol


----------



## terryR

^LOL…

No wonder I couldn't find your blog on the leg vise build, Mos! I was gonna copy what you did!


----------



## terryR

Leg vise it is for me…ordered the screw from Lee Valley last night. I'll only have 8" of max opening considering my legs and aprons, but that's a great start compared to what I have now. Nothing! 

Jim, that's awesome that YOU make that fancy jig I've seen on leg vises…didn't know that until a few days ago! I'll give you a shout when I'm tired of bending and stooping…

Decided to go with a cheap solution for the floor of the tool well today…a pine panel made from left over 1×4's I found in the shop.








.
.
.

Hey, is 2" pine strong enough for the front chop on a leg vise???


----------



## donwilwol

Hey, is 2" pine strong enough for the front chop on a leg vise???

That would be iffy, I'd say no.


----------



## terryR

Uh-oh…
What can I use, Don? Maple, white oak? Just trying to match the pine color…


----------



## ksSlim

Maple or white oak would work.
Pine, fir and such is a little soft for a chop.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, ks, I have plenty of oak…


----------



## Mosquito

I'm going to use a 1.5" wooden screw for my leg vise, hopefully. Failing that, I'll be probably doing the same with the screw from LV.


----------



## donwilwol

Terry, does it need to match? A nice darker wood would look good. Red oak comes to mind.


----------



## BrandonW

I'm with Don, use a nice contrasting wood. The leg vise is a good place to accent the bench. Perhaps quarter sawn red oak, or walnut, or even cherry.


----------



## donwilwol

ahh, I didn't think of cherry. Good choice Brandon

Walnut on a pine bench might be like putting a Calvin Klein's suit on….....well, me!


----------



## BrandonW

Walnut on a pine bench might be like putting a Calvin Klein's suit on……..well, me!

LOL. Fair enough.


----------



## terryR

I agree on the walnut…too much contrast for a pine bench! That red oak idea sounds nice…I bet I can borrow a chunk from my power tool only buddy.

Mos, where do you plan to buy the wooden screw? Gonna make it? 

I saw a sweet kit at Lake Erie Toolworks









2.5" diameter screw, 19" long, and brass fitting for bling…$210 clams!!!


----------



## Mosquito

I'm going to make it, if FedEx ever figures out how to correctly deliver the blanks… Right away when it was shipped I switched it to deliver to a FedEx office near me. Get a notice it was attempted Saturday but I wasn't there (MW-TCA tool meet). So I called FedEx to see what was up, since you can't request to send to an office twice (can only change delivery once). They said "I see your request, we'll have the driver deliver it to the office location on Tuesday". Tuesday comes around, and I get another e-mail about failed delivery attempt, and another door sticker. Call back, AGAIN, "Oh, the driver must not have noticed the change". argh.

But I digress, I bought a 1.5" threader kit form highland woodworking. We'll see how that goes. Had the threader Saturday (USPS), but nothing to thread :-(

My plan is to make the screw, and if that works out, I'll do a test screw-nut-tapping, and if it works, I intend to tap the threads right into the leg. This allows me a little extra clamping space, or a little shorter screw (to avoid having to drill out the splayed leg). I think this is what Mauricio did?


----------



## mochoa

Yep, mine passes through the back leg.


----------



## Mosquito

I meant the threads tapped right into the leg instead of using a nut, but I'm pretty sure I'm right, given that picture


----------



## mochoa

Oh yeah, yes, its tapped directly into the leg.


----------



## donwilwol

did you guys see this one?


----------



## AnthonyReed

^ Yes but it only serves to remind me of my inadequacies.


----------



## chrisstef

Tony no matter how much you tug and tickle it, it will never cease being a dead man, so put your inadequate feelings back on the shelf


----------



## AnthonyReed

Yes, there is the dead bishop issue too…


----------



## lysdexic

Don, her deadman was the inspiration for mine. Of course I butchered mine to make room for the #103


----------



## waho6o9

Kari's workbench is top shelf to say the least.


----------



## BrandonW

It's clearly a nicely built bench, but not really my style.


----------



## AnthonyReed

"Butchered"? - Hardly.

The hand tool only build gives it something extra though, doesn't it Brandon?


----------



## lysdexic

Her bench is superb but definitely has a womans touch. Kinda like Tony.


----------



## AnthonyReed

All here understand you like it more butch. Easy now.


----------



## BrandonW

I was thinking the bench was lacking in rosettes and patent leather for the vise chops.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Tough crowd.


----------



## donwilwol

I really like the smoother she made, and although the bench style wouldn't fit me either, that doesn't take away from that artistic craftsmanship.

true, I'd rather beat on Terry's pine beast, you have to give credit where credit is due.


----------



## mochoa

Kari's bench is spectacular. Nothing wrong with a little artistry or personal expression in a workbench.

I've got the first coat of 1-1-1 curing on my bench. It's looking awesome! The cold is delaying the curing but it's almost there.


----------



## terryR

Congrats, Mauricio! Hope the weather stays dry to let your 1-1-1 cure…

How about a carved leg vise sorta like this shape? too manly? 









or just too difficult…


----------



## Brit

I feel sorry for people like that, but please don't tell him I said so.


----------



## Mike53E

I got all the boards for my top milled up and started gluing! The workshop on board camp lejuene is very nice. Lots of industrial tools, saw stops some nice stuff makes it easy and is certainly spoiling me. The old guys who run it are very helpful and knowledgable, I may have been a little too trusting in their experience when the old guy came overand said glue em up one at a time? You can do 15 boards all atonce then run it through the planer! Look at all the clamps we have. Really? Ok! 15 minutes and a fairly stressful glue up that was strangely reminiscent of that I love Lucy episode in the candy factory half a gallon of trite bond 2 on the boards the other half all over myself I have something that looks like a bench top. At 4.25" thick hopefully after flattening ill still be over 4" thick.
Hopefully I will start milling the legs this weekend.
Terry I didn't know you were a photographer too?! Your use of shadow in the moose knuckle region is so very tasteful!


----------



## Mosquito

It worked! Had to do a little tweaking, but I've got a screw, that fits in a tapped piece of wood.


















The wooden nut is funky looking because I used the other end to shave down the blank a little, to get it just under 1.5" in diameter. The notches in the piece are for clamping a chisel in place to do the shaving.


----------



## terryR

Andy, I agree with ya, medically speaking, that sort of body just cannot be healthy. But, If I posted a photo of my skinny thighs you'd fall on the floor laughing! 

Looking good there, Mos! Your first attempt? You made the wooden screw quicker than UPS has shipped my steel one…Makes me want to go with wood next time!!! Love that asthetical beefiness, bud.


----------



## mochoa

Mos that is really cool! I'm really intrigued by the dowel shaver. How does that work? Is that your own invention?


----------



## mochoa

Mos did you saw out the garter groove by hand? I did that on my first one before having a lathe.

Oh and by the way I'll be sending those dowels out today.


----------



## Mosquito

Sounds great Maur, thanks.
-

Terry, It was my first-ish attempt. I tried it right away, 'out of the box' and it wasn't easy. Really difficult to turn the blank in the threader, and it was leaving heavy marks on the threads from the metal in the threader. The blank also *barely* fit in the threader, and it was tight. After I made the little dowel shaver, and got the size down just a bit, I also set the cutter to take a slightly deeper cut. These two things solved mo problems.

I might have to keep setting it to take a shallower cut, until it starts to bind again, and go just a hair deeper. I'm getting a little chipping on the threads that I hope to minimize by doing that.

Also, tapping the block didn't go so well. I was just out of line with the hole I had drilled, so it got significantly more difficult as I was removing way too much wood from one side towards the end.
-

The dowel shaver wasn't my invention. I had remembered Roy using something that looked like the threader, except just a straight cutter to size a dowel (in the "Hurray for Hickoery, episode, wile making the rake I think). So I got to searching the internet, and re-discovered this:
http://woodgears.ca/dowel/making.html

And more or less did my own version, and turned it by hand, since I don't have a 1.5" chuck in my drill lol. I can try to get better pictures of it when I make the actual screw for my leg vise. Though I may do some more tweaking to it. It wasn't the best. Keeping the chisel in place didn't always work well, it was too easy to twist and get skewed. Not bad, per say, but it made it so there was only a very small section being cut. I will also sand a lot more for the real one.

Yes, the garter groove was done by saw and chisel. It wasn't too bad. Not perfectly round, but not too bad. I was trying to think of a way to drill a 1.5" hole in a piece, come up with a depth-stop to put the end against, and then use a chisel kind of like Paul Sellers' poor mans router plane, to get a consistent depth to it, but I didn't have the scraps on hand to make that happen, so I just went for it.


----------



## mochoa

Pretty cool, that Mathias has some great stuff on his site.

Can you make some kind of guide block for the tap with the external diameter of the tap? You're going to want to make sure your dead on square when you tap the leg. I know I don't have to tell you.  Making wooden screws is a tricky business no matter what method you use huh?

How many TPI is the screw?

Also, what kind of wood are you using for your leg vise chop? I'm using walnut and I'm really liking how it looks on a Red Oak bench.

My first coat of varnish is pretty much cured. I'm just waiting for these low 30 degree temps at night to go away for the second coat.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Boy the new bench makes woodworking so much better than it used to be! I have a huge variety of clamping options and I'm never struggling to keep something where it is when I'm working on it. I Figured I'd put up a few pictures of the bench in action with the newly "restored" Millers Falls No.22CBG. I needed to thin rip some strips on the bandsaw to make a riser on a box that I'm working on, grabbed the No.22 and I am very impressed with it.

My version of the "prairie dogs", 3/4" dowel with a shaving over the hole, pound it in flush, tap it up with the mallet to desired height when needed, down when you don't.
















Cleaned up the tablesaw top today, it hadn't been done since I bought it this summer (The Works, Thick toilet bowl cleaner and a bit of O steel wool)








Bandsaw strip rip setup (also acquired this tool recently, December)









I am going back to Graduate school this August so I am trying to enjoy the time that I have as the shop will see little time during school as it is very fast paced and challenging. I'll probably be able to get out there on the occasional weekend or when I need a stress reliever (I know it doesn't always work this way).

Just Checking in, I'm still watching!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Grant, that's fine looking bench AND a fine MF jointer. Looks like a great place to work, here's hoping you do get some time out there despite class schedule.


----------



## mochoa

Looking nice Grant! Great action shots. Keep 'em comming. Indeed, a good bench makes is SO much easier.

Hey is it a foul to put only one cote of finish on my bench? I mean I just read were Schwarz is toothing his bench to and leaving it unfinished.

Man I want to finish this thing…. It's going to get warmer on Wednesday but I have to travel that day dammit.

I am getting all kinds of stuff done with my free time now though. I just fixed a chair in the Kitchen, I made that little mallet, started planning out a plane till. Oh the freedom. I got to get this thing done done.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Thanks guys!

I only have the one coat of poly, min spirits, and beeswax on mine. When it needs it I'll slop some more on. So far it looks great still, no glue sticking to it, and it feels good.


----------



## mochoa

Grant one coat is sounding better by the minute. I bet the beeswax is what is repelling the glue. Does it make the bench slippery?

How many people finish their bench top with wax? So far my bench has a nice texture because I sanded the finish into the top with 220 grit paper. It's not slippery at all, I wonder if wax will mess that up, it would be nice to help with glue. Or is BLO enough protection against glue?


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice Grant!
-

Mauricio, sorry I didn't see your other reply until now. I'm hoping to make some sort of guide for the tap, maybe use a piece of 2×4 or my oak cut off when I make the front stretcher. I also have to make sure the hole gets drilled straight in as well.

The screws are 6TPI. I'm not sure what I'll use for the chop. I liked the look of your walnut, but I'm sure that wouldn't be cheap. I was thinking of maybe doing Red Oak for the outside 1.5" and 3/4" maple for the inside. For a total of 2.25" thickness, roughly. Otherwise I'd probably end up going to Rockler and seeing if they've still got some of the 12/4 Red Oak I saw when I was there last week. Or something similar.


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio, I put six or seven coats of finish on my bench top but only because it gave me a reason to love on it. One to zero coats sounds fine in my book.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

I wouldn't consider my bench particularly grippy but it isn't slick like my table saw top! I'll take the glue repellant properties for a bench that doesn't grip like sandpaper anyway. Besides, it looks great.


----------



## Mosquito

Anyone ever thought about getting a roll of butcher paper for glue ups and/or finishing? I've used wax or parchment paper for those purposes. Actually, in my case I wouldn't even need to get a roll as wide as butcher paper, since my main bench top (not including tool tray) is less than the 12" wide "standard" wax paper


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I think one or two coats of finish would be fine. One coat of Watco is what I used, re-applied annually now. Seems to be enough, and certainly keeps squeeze out from setting to the surface of the bench. I've seen the Schwarz hit his with a toothed plane, and I admit it's been a bit of a temptation. My bench is already not flat; roughing it up this way would get me closer to flat, anyway. But then I say, you're nuts to mess with your benchtop at this point.

Helpful? Didn't think so.  Sorry…


----------



## mochoa

Thanks for the support guys. I'll wait to see if I get time this weekend to put on another coat, if I don't I'm going to leave it be.

Smitty, you were helpful, It's a good point about reapplying annually, one coat is probably fine.

Mos that's a good point about just protecting the top. You know what I'm thinking too. A the Woodcraft here they had a bench with an MDF top perfectly fitted to the bench top. It had two dog holes cut in it so you could place the MDF board in place over the dogs and then tighten the wagon vise. I thought it was a really great idea.

The only thing I don't like about it is that you then have to store the board somewhere. I think I'd rather just have a top I can scrape glue off of. Maybe I'll try the wax, I can always wipe most of it off with Mineral spirits if it's too slippery.


----------



## Mosquito

I don't mind that idea, other than what you stated about storing it, especially in my situation :-/

I've got quite a bit of Watco Danish Oil from the mallet that I made for the swap, and then used it on one of the clocks I made. I was planning on using that on the workbench, once it gets done.

I think I've decided on round dogs now. It will save me time, and effort on the wagon vise, in that I won't have to cut out a portion of the front apron piece. Now I just have to figure out how I'm going to make the rails for the wagon…


----------



## mochoa

Yeah, I'm not sold yet on the toothing thing either.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Glue drops just sit on the bench, and get flicked off when dry. It doesn't soak in at all. I've spilled water on the bench too, and it beads. Just wipe it off. Pretty cool.


----------



## mochoa

What kind of wagon are you making? You saw mine right, no rails and works great.

Round dogs are cool because you can use them for holdfasts to.

Smitty, did you use any wax or is it just the Watco.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Only Watco, Bro.


----------



## lysdexic

Mos, I thought about a butcher paper. I'd screw it to the underside of the bench top on the left hand side. Right now my table saw sees most of its use as a assembly table and I glue up on it with it coverd by card board.


----------



## Mosquito

I did see your wagon vise, Mauricio, but the problem I have is that I intend to use a shoulder vise screw (that I've already got) for it. *However*, now that I've got that threader and tap…. I may be able to figure something else out that would be similar to yours.

It might be something I look into. It'd be one of those "slightly painful at first" until I realize it's been several years since I had to buy more lol


----------



## LeChuck

All this talk about finish and after another weekend I still couldn't get to that point myself. There's always something else to do! Moving and reinstalling the big vise into the front apron has been a big pain and i couldn't get that finished. I did manage to attach the top to the base finally after I called the whole thing straight and flat enough, but it didn't come together as well as I was hoping. And with the bottom not being flat, I had to do a lot of shimming. I wish the top was thicker. I guess I'll make another one some day….but that won't be soon. Gotta get this workbench done and move on…And never again with the darn doug fir….


----------



## DanKrager

I've successfully used a product called Homasote for temporary bench top. It is kinda hard to find in the big boxes, but Menards had it. It's a soft panel with textured surfaces and it is usually about 1/2" thick. Made of shredded cellulose with just enough goo to hold the shape pretty well. Laid on a bench top it is soft enough not to damage delicate surfaces. Its main feature is that stuff doesn't slide around on it easily. While it won't hold for planing by itself it sure helps. It isn't sticky, just textured enough to hold well under sanding or light operations like that. Its also much lighter than MDF for on off handling.
DanK


----------



## mochoa

The added benefit of the clamp on board for finishing is that it covers the tool well for assembly.

Wax paper is a good idea, I just wouldnt want to screw the roller on to my bench. That just wouldnt look cool…

Dan is Homasote rollable? Easy to store away?


----------



## donwilwol

I know HMike uses the brown packing paper roll to cover his bench during glue ups. The added benefit is the brown paper can be used like a strop for iron touch ups.

Homasote is not rollable, Its like fiberboard.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Maur, it's your bench, so by all means do what you want, but you're killin' me… It's a bench! Use it! Resist the 'keep it pristine' forces you're dealing with. Put a coat of finish on it and work towards your first scratches, stains and gouges. You can do it…


----------



## BrandonW

I lean on the side of Smitty. While I don't generally use my bench for glue ups (I have a laminate covered outfeed table for that), the glue and other finishes as well as the dings and scratches that occur are alll just part of its character.


----------



## terryR

+1 on the one coat of finish…and put to use! 

And +2 on the wax paper plus brown paper on glue ups for the table saw bed…

No progress on my bench this weekend…or the past week really. The nearly finished product is too hard to walk past without the desire to USE IT!










I clamped up a quick jig from pine cut offs and spent a couple of days hand planing lumber into arrow shafts. one maple, two hickory, and the cedar in progress. Used the no.18 for heavy stock removal, then the no.65 for finish…very little sanding required! Each shaft was finished with 2 coats of thin shellac colored slightly.

My goodness I NEED some dog holes! Clamping around these 13" aprons is a pain…

Glad I added a tool well…love it absolutely!


----------



## Airframer

This thread is very dangerous to read through. I have started on my first bench (and really only my second wood working project) and this thread has given me an endless supply of inspiration and a healthy feeling of inadequacy lol. Here is the blog series if anyone is curious Workbench Build

Mauricio, your build is what finally gave me the push to actually try and build one for myself. Just wanted to say thanks and Very nice looking bench!


----------



## donwilwol

I always use my bench for glue-ups, and although the glue will come right off, I throw a piece of teflon coated fabric over it. Its off a roll of stuff from a place I worked a long time ago, but go to home depot, buy a $20 drop cloth and throw it over the bench if your doing a lot of gluing.

And I agree with the above, use it!!


----------



## mochoa

I know Smitty, I'm overanalyzing it, the top is knotty red oak, why do I give a shiit! LOL.

Thanks for the idea Don, I actually already have a couple of those drop cloths I got from Harbor Freight for cheap. Duh, Ok I'm going to stop talking about it now.

Airframer, I'm glad to help be some motivation. I saw your hand wheel vise screw but I need to catch up on the rest of the blog. Looking great so far!

Great pic Terry, I like your creative work holding method. The tool well seems to be holding that carving mallet on the bench nicely!


----------



## lysdexic

Maur, Do not listen to these guys! If you don't french polish it, you just don't care enough. Now if you french kiss it, that might be too much.


----------



## donwilwol

Canvas ones only. The plastic maybe to slippery over the French polish.


----------



## chrisstef

I disagree scott. It aint done unless it got tongue.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wait, are you gonna french polish that red oak bench, Maur?


----------



## mochoa

I appreciate the backup from the guy who put 8 coats of varnish on his bench. That is a lot of loving on the bench by the way.

You gotta love how you think Stef isn't around until there is a semi erotic reference made. LOL.

No French polish on the top but I did Shellac the jatoba deadman and vise garter. Didn't want to put oil finish on oily wood, it can darken it too much some times. Now those parts look nice and shiny and very red! Plays nicely with the red oak and walnut though. Cant wait to post the final. Need to add leather to the vises.

Speaking of French polish I do have a special workbench issue of FWW where the guys puts two coats of shellac on his bench top. Sounds a little crazy though. Says its better for moisture exchange blah blah blah.


----------



## mochoa

Just a picture from McGuire's blog ("The English Woodworker"). Nice workbench eye candy.


----------



## AnthonyReed

^Yep. That's the stuff.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Love that painted tool cabinet.


----------



## mochoa

Of course you do….


----------



## Brit

I'm with Smitty - Paint rules.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's wild, his woodie planes rack. Very different. I like!


----------



## BrandonW

I would love for my workspace to resemble that, but I have these big clunky machines taking up too much space. I love it though!


----------



## lysdexic

Right Smitty.

I am sure this gentleman is a smarter and more competent woodworker that I will ever be but don't you think the wedge and iron are at risk more being dislodged. To spend time to tap, tap, tap the iron into place and then just drop in the rack on its wedge….. but what the hell do I know.


----------



## AnthonyReed

See @ 1:05 - He sets them in delicately:


----------



## lysdexic

I bet when the camera is not rolling he tosses them in the rack like a three pointer ;^)

Did you see that toe tap-tap to adjust the smoother. Strong.


----------



## LeChuck

That's just showing off. Pfff.


----------



## RGtools

I love seeing wooden planes in action. They are so satisfying.


----------



## mochoa

Thats a beautiful video. Something to watch when your stressed out at work. Just so soothing…


----------



## Mosquito

Agreed. That's why a little while ago I bought a wooden jointer, and 2 wooden Jacks. Now just keeping an eye out for a toted smoother that tickles my fancy. Thinking about having a go at making one, actually.


----------



## mochoa

Toted wooden smoothers are dreamy. Al has a relly nice one. I want one.

I also want an adjustable mouth wooden smoother. 

















I might have to make one one day. I small one with a high angle blade.

I still use woodies for my rough work. But for planes that I like to frequently adjust the depth on I prefer iron planes.


----------



## lysdexic

One day, I'd really like make my own woodies for this very reason. One day.


----------



## terryR

+1 on the desire to make a woodie or two! When you guys start, please consider cutting 2 sets of wood blanks, or at least, send me a good copy of the measurements. I'd be happy to trade, pay, whatever…

Another leg vise question…
Looks like I'm using hard maple for the front chop. How thick would be recommended? 2.75" thick enough for a 10" wide chop? It will be squeezing against 7" of pine…


----------



## BrandonW

11/4 thick maple is plenty thick in my opinion for that vise chop.


----------



## Mosquito

I agree, I was figuring 2.25" thick for mine


----------



## mochoa

I've only made this one. Walnut is too soft, I need to add a harder sole to it. When it works right it's a dream. I havent flattened it in a while thats probably my issue. 

















I'm thinking that when I make one I'm going to use a Woodriver blade ($16) and LN chip breaker ($25). Either that or an old laminated iron from and old woody. I free hand sharpen and the small hock irons are not easy to hold.


----------



## mochoa

Schwarz and Spagnolo's plans call for 1-7/8" thick. Mine is 2-3/4" I think, I just think it looks cool. LOL.


----------



## terryR

Mauricio, I've always loved that lil walnut smoother! nice color and curl…

I'm sorta following the Schwarz' plan for his Le Roubo Bench for the leg vise, but his looked sorta skinny IMO! 

Going for the beefed up look…2 3/4" does sound nice…we'll see how it plays out…Thanks guys!


----------



## 2bigfeet

Here is my recent build. Its the Hybrid Roubo FWW had as a project. You can see the pics of the build here...














































~


----------



## Mosquito

Wow, sweet bench 2bigfeet. That vise intrigues me.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I really like the diagonal supports. I bet that stiffens the bench considerably. Well done!


----------



## Boatman53

Very nice bench, but I am intrigued by that vise. I love all the different kind of vises. Does that box beam structure keep the jaws from racking?
Jim


----------



## BrandonW

My favorite part of the bench is the double through-tenon. All around awesome bench. Thanks for posting.


----------



## mochoa

That vise is sweet!


----------



## Mosquito

Mauricio, got the two chunks of maple (I thought I was only getting 1? lol). Hopefully I'll be able to make some more progress soon


----------



## mochoa

I mean the whole bench is sweet.


----------



## mochoa

I know you only wanted one. I figured I'd send you two.  Hope you can use them.


----------



## mochoa

I think I saw a version of that vise in Scott Landis' book if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## Dakkar

I've just spent a long time at that English Woodworker site and wow. This Maguire guy now has my vote for having the coolest job I know after Fantasy Fest body painter. Imagine spending all your time designing and making beautiful workbenches like that.


----------



## 2bigfeet

Thanks for the compliments.

I did in fact get the idea for my vise from the Landis book. It was from a Shaker bench. I made some modifications and it turned out very well.

No racking. Smooth as butter.


----------



## terryR

2big, that's a great bench! Looks like a Lake Erie wooden vise in a box? Cool idea…never seen such!

I love the arched top supports and the through tenons…wedges even!

Nice job…


----------



## Mosquito

Was it you, Mauricio? 
http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/?p=898


----------



## GMatheson

I've been putting a bit of work into my bench. Got the end vise figured out. I went with a homemade wagon vise using a shoulder vise screw I had laying around.










Still needs a little finetuning then it's on to the leg vise and probably should get to work on the back slab for the top soon too.


----------



## Mosquito

GMath, that's more or less what I was thinking I would do with my shoulder vise screw.


----------



## mochoa

Mos, that wasn't me, but cool article. Interesting perspective. I like the idea of improving the grip while still protecting against glue. I also don't like the idea of the scrubbed surface being able to capture a lot of crud.

GMat, cool wagon vise man, Looks like it will work great.


----------



## lysdexic

Very resourceful, GMath.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

GM, I like the way you think, and love what you've built. Very nice.


----------



## mochoa

Sneak peak!... Brother PurpLev perpetrated a hand wheel for my wagon vise! I was seriously giddy pulling it out of my mailbox today! 








Big Ups to PurpLev!


----------



## donwilwol

what? That little thing?


----------



## BrandonW

Don could fit five of those within the circumference of his handwheel.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice, I've got a hand wheel I would have liked to have used for my leg vise, but the hole in it was far too small, and I didn't have the equipment to make it work.


----------



## mochoa

Brandon, that's why they call him Don Quijote!

Mos I think the set of large bits is $30 bucks at HF.


----------



## mochoa

Dup


----------



## Airframer

Yep, I got This Set at HF. It drilled through the cast iron no problem up to 1". The key is slow speed, use a lot of lube, steady pressure but don't force the bit and work up from small to large in small increments.

I also can;t stress enough to make sure your pilot hole is dead center starting or else it will be very noticeable as the hole gets bigger.

I have drilled 2 hand wheels now and both were done with the bottom line $69 HF 8" drill press.


----------



## donwilwol

I've got the same set of bits. I bought it for my wheel.


----------



## Mosquito

yeah… the drill press is the main issue with it. I've got the post drill now, though, so I might be able to try that at some point, but I don't have more than one bit for it yet.


----------



## Mosquito

You'd probably be screaming if you had an oak 2×4 sticking out of your forehead too…


----------



## chrisstef

Now thats funny Mos. Kinda looks like Hog on a friday night. Smile like a doughnut.


----------



## LeChuck

Love the photo


----------



## Airframer

Speaking of handwheels.. I just finished the first of 2 wooden wheels for my workbenches Maxon Vise .


----------



## Mosquito

Nice airframer, I like it. Did you tap the wood center, or is there some sort of nut inside?
-

I got frustrated with trying to figure out what I wanted to do for my girlfriends birthday gift, so I gave up and took out that frustration on my workbench. Cut the tenons and drilled/chopped the mortises for the bottom stretcher. I still haven't given up hope that I can keep this thing so I can take it apart and transport it when I want to. This bottom stretcher posed a problem for that design idea…


















-

Did anyone else watch the Highland Woodworking video and see the "little English bench" that Chris Schwarz mentioned? I kind of like it


----------



## Airframer

Yep the wheel is tapped. A little mineral oil on the threads and it spins surprisingly fast and easy yet holds good and tight. Time will tell how well they hold up.

Had make my own 1" 5tpi ACME tap for it though..


----------



## Mosquito

Very cool. Even if it doesn't last forever, as long as you keep the tap, you can always make another one. Or have several hand wheels ready to go to suite your design taste of the day lol


----------



## mochoa

Man and I thought this guys guy was hurt! 









Mos the bench is looking great man. Did you wax the pegs so they are easier to remove? What exactly is the issue? Can you peg the front stretcher from the back of the leg? Maybe bore the hole bigger in the first inch or so to make it easier to get in and out? Less friction?

Airframer that is bad aas! Even if it doesnt last its friggin cool. Next time (if) maybe you can laminate pieces with alternating grain direction.

My bench is done by the way. I need t o take good pics with a real camera. I'll try to update the blog tomorrow.


----------



## mochoa

Mos did you catch me in that episode of Highland Woodworker? Actually I think those are my hands turning the wooden screws on the little portable bench. LOL

I was sneaking into the shot every chance I got. LOL.


----------



## Mosquito

I did not wax them, I just used a smaller dowel that I had to drive them all the way through.

I had the idea for using barrel bolts to keep the front stretcher from sliding out of the mortises, yet still be easily removable for when the time comes. I'll see how it goes, if I don't like it, I'll just fill the hole with a dowel, and come up with something else.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm pretty sure I caught you a few times… black north face jacket, black shoes, jeans? I was going to ask but didn't want to sound creepy lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Maur, is that a little french kiss above the left pin in the workbench pic above? You can soak that with a wet rag for a few minutes, and try to expand it away… It'd be channeling your inner Lysdexic for sure, but even I'd do it, too. Your bench is too nice now, sorry.


----------



## mochoa

Smitty, the dings didnt bother me so I left them along.

Speaking of looking nice….

Booyakasha!









http://lumberjocks.com/mochoa/blog/34717


----------



## chrisstef

Keep the french kiss and bring me my blankets and a pillow. Id be sleepin in the shop with that beauty Maur!


----------



## donwilwol

that is a sweet dream right there!!


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice Mauricio


----------



## LeChuck

Wow, looks great Mauricio!


----------



## LeChuck

It's been hard for me to progress much this week. I was able to do a few things on my workbench this weekend but still not quite done.

I finally got around to cutting off the pegs and I used the technique suggested a number of messages above, left the pegs slightly proud, wetted them, then tap-tap-tap with the ball end of a hammer. It worked well although not completely in certain cases but the result is nice enough.










It also took me some time (including the time staring at it wondering how the heck I was going to do it) to refit the vise into the front apron as it was mounted proud of the apron before. Did that by hand so it took a while and was less than perfect (I just can't saw straight, but maybe the ryoba saw doesn't help that either) but it's not going too bad. I'll post photos when that's all done as I still have to make the front jaw and plane the rest flush…

Once that's done, some oil and it will all be ready for use, and I'll move on to making a shelf then later a cabinet…


----------



## dag2000

This workbench is starting to become a little like the old wooden sailing ship that is has every piece of wood replaced over the years and you're faced with the philosophical question of whether it's a new ship or the same one.

This bench started out as a butcher block table that I bought when I was living in Chicago in an apartment with no counter space. Now married and living in a house, it has been a long time since I needed counter space (now I need floor space!). So the butcher block was relegated to the basement, then, after the basement was refinished, to the garage. After three years in the garage, I brought it out to be my new workbench. I bought a big bastard of a Jorgensen face vise, did a half-assed (I later came to realize) installation of it, and was off and woodworking.

One big problem was that the bench was wobbly as can be. So to add weight and reduce racking, I added those maple rails you see with mortise and tenon joinery. The bench become much more usable then.

Unfortunately, the bench top started delaminating. I would fill the gaps with glue and crank down on my clamps and that would work for a while. But it would keep happening. And just a couple months ago, I was really leaning into the face vise and I pulled the screws out of the spacer block I had installed under the bench top for the vise. So, I was faced with a decision about what to do next. Should I just reinstall the face vise? If I did, I wanted to do it right this time, installing it with the rear jaw flush with the bench edge. And I really wanted to put in a tail vise as well.

So I bit the bullet and tore apart, enhance, and reglued the top. I made cuts along the glue lines on the tablesaw, then added some a few more lengths of maple to replace what I had lost from the kerf, and then added the front apron you see. I reinstalled the face vise with a chunk of poplar for the front jaw and also installed a Veritas inset vise to work as a tail vise. I filled the old dog holes and cut new ones. And for good measure, added a coat of BLO.

Now the only things original to the bench are the ugly, yellowed legs and the skirt that attached the legs to the top.


----------



## terryR

Mauricio, that's something to be proud of…just sayin' ! A bench to be copied IMO.

David, those pins look nice…I turned some walnut pins last week to add a little bling to my bench…decided to copy the look you have going on!

Hey MikeB, that's a familiar-sounding story of many of the objects in my shop! Your bench is looking good. You can always attach a few pieces of 'new' wood to the old legs, making them flush with the apron, and making them look new!  Personally, I like the blend of vintage and new…but, then again, our house was built in 1860's. LOL


----------



## mochoa

Thanks guys, and thanks for your comments on the blog/project post.

David the pegs look great with the pine. Nice touch.

Mike that bench looks like a solid user now. Looks good to me. The legs dont bother me at all. Soon it will all be that color. Nice planes by the way!


----------



## LeChuck

Thanks. I like the walnut pegs. I can't wait to see what it all looks like with some oil on it. I forgot that I also need to turn a new handle for the vise. I've never turned anything before so we'll see how that goes 

Mike, that does look like a good practical bench. I have the same big Jorgensen vise on mine. It adds considerable weight to the top too…


----------



## Airframer

Mauricio.. Seeing the handle that PurpLev turned for you made me look at my poor excuse for a handle and got handle envy lol.

So out with the old in with the new.. once again on my ghetto drill press lathe…



















I am finishing it in Poly because of the wear it will see. Just waiting to do another coat and then polish and shine. Have to make one more after that.


----------



## mochoa

Cool knob AF! Damn good work for being turned on a lathe!


----------



## mochoa

with no lathe I mean.


----------



## Mosquito

nice work AF.

My "workbench" contribution of the evening, sort of.


----------



## Airframer

That…... is a very long screw! I can't wait to see the vise it belongs too!

Thanks guys! I'm getting pretty good at turning on my drill press with nothing but a rasp and a sheet of 80 grit sand paper lol. I guess at some point I should invest in a proper lathe….

I updated my workbench build blog with more in progress pics if anyone is interested.


----------



## mochoa

Nice! Thats a lot of cranking!


----------



## Mosquito

yeah, the first part is a little rough, so I kept going, and eventually I just decided to use the factory cut end as the end of the screw to attach to the hub. So now I've got a 36" screw, with 33" of threads lol. I'll be cutting it down eventually. I was thinking about using the remnants for a bench-top moxon vise down the road.

I also wasn't happy with my old make-shift doweling jig. The chisel liked to move too much (tilting). So I decided to make anew one from the cut off of my front stretcher


----------



## mochoa

Wow, thats pretty cool! The crazy long screw and the dowel shaver.


----------



## Airframer

Handle is done and Moxon wheel number 2 is 50% complete… moving along now.


----------



## GMatheson

Been working on my leg vise this week. I didn't have a single piece of wood big enough so I did a glue up of hard maple to get a 2-1/4"x8" piece.










Breaktime is over. Back to work now.


----------



## LeChuck

I was doing one of the last things on my workbench yesterday before it's ready for finishing…installing the wooden front jaw on the vice, before planing that stuff flush. I had forgotten how much harder it is to put screws into hardwood. Made my (misplaced as usual, I hate drilling) pilot holes but encountered quite a bit of resistance putting the screws in towards the end, and then discovered that it still wasn't tight, although the screws were totally stuck in. I managed to remove one but I had to drill out the second one so I could separate the wood blank from the vise. I seem to just mess up when doing the things that are the most basic, like drilling and putting screws in. So I have to redo this…I need to cut another piece because I'm not going to spend hours drilling out the rest of the screw.


----------



## mochoa

Looking good Airframer! Those handles will add a really nice touch to the bench.

GMat, that's looking nice. Going to look good with some finish on it. I like the streaks in the maple.

David I feel your pain man. I originally had my dead man rail screwed in to the White Oak stretcher. When I went to remove them to glue the rail down pretty much every screw broke off. That White Oak wasn't giving them up. LOL.


----------



## lysdexic

David, during my bench build i can't tell you how many "basic" operations I screwed up. In fact, it seems like there was one in every blog entry.


----------



## mochoa

Random workbench action shots:


















So nice to have a piece of wood not move on you when you are sawing or planing it!


----------



## Airframer

I have a question that has been nagging me on my build for a while. What is the average or usual dimensions for the leg vise? Is there a min max of usefulness and are there height/width ratios that come into play? I have a couple Schwartz workbench books but neither really go into the design of that vise just how it functions.


----------



## LeChuck

Thanks guys, you make me feel a little better about myself


----------



## mochoa

Airframer, I dont think there is a guide line. Obviously too wide and it will wrak if you clamp something too far away from the screw.

I would say somewhere between the width of your leg and goofy looking.

That said, I've seen wide asymmetrical ones hanging from the ceiling of a Cracker barrel. Cant find the pic right now.


----------



## Airframer

I would say somewhere between the width of your leg and goofy looking.

Haha.. I love that and was more or less what I was leaning towards. I was just scared to start cutting anything till I was sure I wasn't going to be wasting any wood on the wrong size.


----------



## Boatman53

There's this one. 








Wish I had more time, I miss participating more. 
Jim


----------



## mochoa

Yep that looks like the one I saw.


----------



## GMatheson

Just an update on my leg vise. Got it all together but it only works smoothly when I hold it up with my foot so the next step will be the little roller brackets modeled after the Benchcrafted plans.


----------



## JayT

OK, I don't post much here, but saw this leg vise on the bay and figured someone might be interested. Heck, the screw should be worth the asking price.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-HUGE-WOODEN-BENCH-END-MOUNT-VISE-OLD-CLAMP-TOOL-HAND-MADE-NR-/330881071087?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0a0c77ef


----------



## lysdexic

OK - which one of you guys took my spot on the high-roller, star-studded, massive, ancient french oak Roubo bench building retreat? Just couldn't keep the $4500 in your pocket?
 
The French Oak Roubo Project


----------



## chrisstef

Sweet mother of Roubo Scott …..

Stef covets those slabs.


----------



## lysdexic

Stef - did you check out the link?


----------



## Airframer

I think I have the leg problem figured out for my bench. Nothing really blog worthy yet but wanted to share for any of you who may be following my Workbench Build

I had to head across the bay through Port Townsend today so on my way back this afternoon I thought I would stop into Edensaw and see what woods they had. I don't get over there too often since it's a $20 round trip on the ferry but since I had to be there anyway I figured what the heck.

I ended up picking up about 21b/f of Cherry. Enough to make 4 legs that measure 2 3/4×5 x 36 with enough left over to make the endcap. That is a bit long but like it has been said, it's easier to make something shorter than it is longer. My only concern is the 2 3/4 thickness… does that seem thick enough? It is only about 1/2" thinner than the 4×6 hemfir I had originally bought for the legs so I think it should work fine. What say you all?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That trip would be ungodly… Not looking for students, but participants. It'd be almost brutal. And what if you screw something up??? Amazing.


----------



## kokomoron

I have two









And this one


----------



## chrisstef

I sure did Scotty. Really cool stuff. I bet the schearz would let ya take his spot for a ghosty.


----------



## yuridichesky

Here I'm getting ready for assembling the legs and draw-boring (http://lumberjocks.com/yuridichesky/blog/34813) with yet another dowel-cutting jig:









What other dowel-cutting jigs do you guys use?


----------



## terryR

GMath, leg vise is looking great! I'm looking forward to your wheel installation to help with the weight of that chop. That way I can copy what you do!  The leg vise is next on my bench build…

Yo, that's a serious collection of old slabs, ScottyB! I read the article, too, would love to stand nearby and watch those benches come to life…They could probably charge admission…

Ron, love your tool wall…one of these days my shop will resemble that sweet look!

Yuri, I've used a shop made jig for dowels, too, but don't like the results. Now, I use the lathe…very time consuming to turn a dowel to 0.490" to fit a 1/2" hole with glue…but I have time.

update with blog coming…


----------



## lysdexic

Ron, I covet your joinery bench!


----------



## Mosquito

looking good Yuri. For dowel cutting jig, I posted what I used for my leg vise screw a couple posts up from here:
http://lumberjocks.com/replies/595954


----------



## Airframer

Very cool Yuri! I really need to get busy turning this….










into a workbench…. I've been slacking and getting distracted lol.

Cherry legs to be…


----------



## yuridichesky

Terry, I wish I had a lathe. Some day I'm gonna have one…

Mos, great setup, I missed it in a thread when you posted it. And I'm still wondering why similar setup turned into disaster for me.

Airframer, thank you! Be brave, man, this pile of wood wants to be a workbench!


----------



## paratrooper34

Well, I finally decided to post my bench stuff on here and join the rest of yous!

I have six benches total: an Ulmia, two that I made myself, a bench top bench, and two saw benches (also made by me).

My first bench was one that I made. It is based off plans from FineWoodWorking's website. I think it was called weekend workbench or something like that. It has a pine base with a pine cabinet below. It has a beech laminated top on it purchased at a German home store. It is approximately 1 1/2" thick. I put an old Columbian vise on it and also installed a Record planing stop in the surface. It served me well for a while until I found the Ulmia.



















Here is the Ulmia. In My Projects, I posted how I made the shelves and the deadman. This bench had no shelves on it and I really needed a place to store the things I frequently use on it. I bought the bench in Germany when I was stationed there. It had never been used for woodworking and it seemed the previous owner only used it as a place to store things on. Go figure. This bench is definitely the workhorse in my shop.



















My next bench, that serves as my drill press/grinder station, actually started its life as my router table. When I first started putting a shop together, I made this router table. It was pretty nice. Had a big Milwaukee router and an Incra fence. But as I moved away from the power tools, I sold the fence and router. I then filled the holes left by the router lift and bolt holes and made it into the bench it is now. I also made this in Germany and it is constructed with a pine base and beech laminated top.



















I made a couple of saw benches to handle sawing tasks. I made one in Germany out of pine and left over laminated beech from the other two benches. The other is made of construction lumber left overs. These see a lot of use also. They are fashioned from Schwarz's own.



















The last bench is my bench top bench. I got the plan for this from FWW also. It is made out of cherry (really turned a beautiful red!). I use this for cutting dovetails mostly. It is very handy as it brings the cutting task up higher where it is easier to see and easier on the back. I typically pinch it between the bench dogs and clamp it down with an F clamp.



















So there are my benches. They aren't as pretty as some of the beauts I am seeing on here, but they work for me.


----------



## terryR

Mike, love them all! Especially the last bench on bench…looks extremely useful!

A few lathe-turned pins for my bench…










New blog here.


----------



## LeChuck

Very cool Mike. I agree on the benchtop bench. I'm going to make on of those at some point. Well, after I'm done with my own workbench.


----------



## mochoa

Ok I'm catching up here:

Scott I saw that blog from Benchcrafted. Seem pretty cool with some amazing wood. I guess if you had a trailer it wouldn't be much of an issue to take it back home. Does $4,500 include the vise hardware? Were you trying to sign up?

GMat, I like the shape of the leg vise, its looking good!

Jay, I don't know how good of a deal that old leg vise is. If you look at completed listings on ebay $50 seems to be the going rate for the old screws. $75 plus $35 shipping is pretty high.

Ron, nice shop there buddy, great benches. I like that joinery bench too, very nice! And the shelves above the main bench are making me reconsider my aversion to open shelves.

AF, sweet pile of cherry, that's going to make a great bench base!

Paratrooper, would you say you have a plethora of benches? LOL. What a nice collection you have there. 









I bench top bench is definitely in my future.


----------



## Airframer

Moxon is done!



















Project Post

Blog with more in progress pics


----------



## LeChuck

My workbench, done. Well, done-ish. Meaning usable, well, almost 

I'm going to wax the top in a few days probably. Next I'll make a cabinet to have some drawers at the bottom and a shelf above it. That will make it heavier. It's already pretty heavy but still. My concrete floor is a bit slick so I think I'm going to need to add some rubber pads. It was a pain to push it to its final location even using moving pads but once it got there…I guess that area is smoother.

Dimensions are 70.5 inches long, by 30 deep, by 36 high.

I gave it a couple coats of Watco this weekend. The vise jaws are what I originally believed to be mahogany, but now believe is sapele. The top has a number of patches made from sanding dust and liquid hide glue, and that turned green like bird poop when it received the oil…

The vise is an older Jorgense 4×10 quick release (it's *heavy*). It's now set into the apron and lowered in order to increase the depth to a little over 5 inches. I cut into the apron to insert some hardwood all the way to the top because the bench top has a big round-over and I wanted the vise jaws to meet better.

I made the handle from a cherry dowel, and I turned the end caps from the same wood as the jaws. It was my first turning and not too much fun actually. It's holding using thinner tenons on the dowel, and glued on.

I'm pretty happy about this and I think it will be a great user. I'm now dying for a place to put the planes and other hand tools. I think I'm going to go for some french cleat system above the bench and some pieces made for each type of tool to hang on there. I originally wanted a tool cabinet but I realized that I don't like to have to open doors and drawers to get to my tools, I like to be able to see them and reach for them, and put them back easily. A cabinet would be open all the time so there's not much point.


----------



## mochoa

AF, great action shot of that wheel spinning.

David, the bench is looking amazing man, well done!


----------



## LeChuck

Thanks Mauricio. There's still so much to do in the workshop. I think I'm going t make a plane till next…


----------



## GMatheson

New bench update.

Got the rollers on the parallel guide and turned a handle. It's working a lot smoother now but still have some play around the screw. I have some UHMW laying around so I think I'll mortise a piece into the leg as a bushing next. Should be running nice and smooth by the end of the day hopefully.


----------



## mochoa

Those wheels look fast GMat! I like the spade detail on the end of the guide.


----------



## GMatheson

They are from Lee Valley….a little bigger than i wanted but they work. They better be fast since they are scooter wheels.


----------



## Boatman53

Nice leg vise GM. Maybe it is perspective, but does the lower roller hit the chop? Or do you have a cut out of some kind to make the chop the same level as the parallel beam? Nice job on the bench.
Jim


----------



## GMatheson

It's just the camera angle Jim. The bottom of the chop and parallel guide are at the same level.


----------



## Boatman53

That's what I thought, but had to ask. Thanks
Jim


----------



## terryR

David, I like the color your bench took on…I don't see any green poop on my monitor! And I love the wood you chose for the vise! Nice contrasts…

GMath, those are great looking wheels! Especially for $2.39 each! I have been looking at skateboard wheels, much more expensive…Are your wheelie assemblies attached to the bench so they can be raised or lowered, or did you just choose an acceptable amount of play between the two rollers?


----------



## GMatheson

The wheel blocks have a bit of play. Think I can move them about 1/4" up or down for fine tuning.


----------



## GMatheson

My budget Benchcrafted Leg Vise is now finished. Total cost under $25.

I added the UHMW bushing and fine tuned the wheel positions and now the vise is working nicely. After the rest of the bench is done I'll put a finish on it and add some leather.


----------



## mochoa

Looking good Gmat!


----------



## mochoa

Just noticed the UHMW bushing. How does it work now?


----------



## GMatheson

It gives the screw 2 point on the leg to keep it straight - the nut at the back of the leg and the bushing at the front. The hole in the leg is bigger than the screw so without the bushing the screw was wobbling around and wasn't very smooth. The UHMW is nice and slippery and tightens everything up.


----------



## mochoa

If you put a hand wheel on that thing I bet it would spin like a top.


----------



## Dakkar

Wow. I just saw paratrooper34's cute little bench top and I really want one. That is so cool. I'm going to FWW and search around.


----------



## yuridichesky

GM, nice implementation of the leg vise. I have the same idea with the UHMW bushing, and thinking about 1/2" thick one. How thick is yours? Do you have same bushing on the chop?


----------



## GMatheson

Yuri my bushing is only 1/4" since that's all I had laying around and I didn't put any bushing on the chop.


----------



## LeChuck

That leg vise looks great!


----------



## terryR

GMath, thanks for the photos…that will sure help me!  I like the idea of the bushing as well…think I have an old cutting board I can cut and paste…

Thanks for the advice and tips, everyone, I couldn't build my bench as easily without you guys!

...starting the leg vise today…


----------



## pastahill

A few days ago i got my lumber for my new workbench. It´s 2,5 inch thick beech, a few 3,25 inch thick and 9 feet long boards. Beech is the traditional wood for a bench here in europe. Just sawn, not jointed or planed. I got it for just 160 €. I will now let it rest for a few month in my shop, because they where stored outside before i get them. The lumber was airdryed for about 3 years. Maybe i will combine it with a little oak or wallnut. On top you see a few parts of the hardware i will use. I will build it as a roubo style bench with my own homemade hardware, not benchcrafted. Maybe i will write a blog ( or not, because ther are so many roubos out there ) when i start . But i think not for the end of the sommer, because everything is very busy.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice pile of lumber there pastahill. "Some assembly required" lol


----------



## pastahill

I know!!! but next week i got a hamstring oparation and i am out of the shop for about 8 weeks, in the spring i will build my porch and there are about 30 old saws, plans, cisels and other tools to restore.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Right on Terry. Looking forward to seeing the vise.

Spectacular stack of bench goodness Pasta! I can't wait to see your build. Best of luck on your procedure and hopes for a speedy recovery.


----------



## terryR

Some assembly required

LOL!

There's just something about a pile of stickered hardwood that makes the happy dopamine in my brain flow like a river at flood stage! Good luck with the hamstring op, PH…I hope the post op recovery is quick!


----------



## RGtools

Pictures needed, but I have a question.

I scored some 10/maple on monday. Two the the 12"x 6' slabs happen to have an awesome bit of color to them…and they are bookmatched. I understand that making a bookmatched bench would force a painful flattening each time, but I think I might have to do it anyway.

Your thoughts?


----------



## eao2012

I'll be looking forward to seeing those slabs cut up, pastahill! I'm glad to see Europeans have found this site just as we Americans have  Good luck with your hamstring surgery.


----------



## AnthonyReed

If you are going to be squeamish about it save it for another project, otherwise give it the tough love you know it wants.

Careful doing the M&T joinery on your new bench, i've read it can be a harrowing experience.


----------



## chrisstef

Ive heard those M&T's cant be a real potato pincher. Good luck in whatever you do with that lumber RG.


----------



## BillWyko

Not much to look at yet but my bench is under construction. The Bubinga will be the skirt and the legs & stretchers are doubled up curly Maple. More to come soon.


----------



## mochoa

Beach makes a nice bench Pasta. Look forward to seeing it come together. Wishing you a speedy recovery!

RG, is there a lot of run out in that maple? If it's not much I wouldn't worry about it. Regardless, a little tearout on a bench isn't a big deal.


----------



## mochoa

Dang Humidor, thats going to be an impressive bench!


----------



## AnthonyReed

"Not much to look at yet…"???!? It is frigging gorgeous wood and joinery Humidor!


----------



## BillWyko

Thanks guys, it's what I had laying around the shop.I figure I'll probably work at this bench for the rest of my life, might as well make it easy on the eyes.


----------



## shipwright

I'm going to have to drop over and have a look at this thing Bill.
Looks pretty classic.


----------



## BillWyko

Any time Paul, you're always welcome. Tomorrow the top is going out for drum sanding but after that there will be something to look at. It should all come together in a week or so. I've taken step by step pictures of the build so I should be able to put a blog together. (It'll be my first blog)


----------



## waho6o9

Looking forward to your first blog Humidor!

Very nice work HM


----------



## Airframer

Houston.. glue on the top has landed! Well… the first 2 boards at least. It's going to be a looooong week of gluing.


----------



## Boatman53

Looks like some good bench building happening again. I can't keep up with all the posts but they sure look good.
Jim


----------



## BillWyko

I actually just finished my glue up for my top. I used a piece of 2"x2" square stock steel tubing as a caul to hold the pieces flat when I clamped up everything, I did 3 at a time. Hopefully the 2 sides will go to the surface sander at Woodworkers Source tomorrow. Of course my truck is in the shop so I have to try to get them through the ski boot in my cars trunk.(Personally I call it a lumber boot)
I went to visit my dadin the hospital, then stopped by my shop for what should have been a few minutes, ended up working on the Bubinga condor tails til 9:00pm. They are coming out great so far.

Paul, I may need your help putting together this blog thing. Sad to say but I don't really know the definition of a Blog. Seems like a thread to me. LOL


----------



## terryR

Hey HumidorMinister…we need a shorter nickname to call ya!  HM?

Seriously, you have nothing to worry about when it comes to writing a blog…your workmanship provides such nice eye candy that everyone will drool over the photos and be unable to read the text anyway…

Just pretend you are writing a story to explain the photos and your work to someone hundreds of miles away. If you ever make a mistake, be sure to photograph it, AND how ya fixed it! 

I'm afraid I ordered those same scooter wheels from Lee Valley that GMath used…but now I don't think I have space for 3 7/8" wheels…*Anybody want 2 new scooter wheels???*


----------



## BillWyko

Hm is fine or Bill, LOL That makes sense, I'll start putting the pics in order so I can get it together. It's at that point where you can do a little mock up to tease myself. Time to kick it into gear & push through to the end.


----------



## Mosquito

those mockups are dangerous… eventually they get to a point where it's usable, and then progress slows down because of it. At least it's happened to me lol It's a flat surface, in a really small shop with not a lot of flat surfaces… need I say more?


----------



## AnthonyReed

^ I'll say it for Mauricio and Shane… Get to work Mos!


----------



## BillWyko

Just sent the top out, the mngr said he would drop it off after work today. They like me over there, I have supported their biz for over 20 years. Should have bought stock in them back then, might have got a good return. LOL.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah, what Tony said Mos!


----------



## Dakkar

Earlier I oogled paratrooper34's little bench top bench he built from a Fine Woodworking plan. I just ran across this recently posted Sketchup plan for a similar bench that uses a single standard vise. The plan has dimensions and an exploded view. Benchtop Mini-workbench


----------



## Mosquito

lol yeah yeah… I'm trying. All the clamps I need to use are at my parents' place. I hope to get up there this weekend, weather permitting. I'll hopefully get some work done on the wagon vise, and get my clamps so I can get the top completed. Then I have to do the tool well bottom, and all that's involved with that, and the vises, and various this's and that's


----------



## Airframer

Another Question for you guys (I am full of them.. or full of it) Is there a problem with laminating my top in this manner..










I would like to beef it up and my design has changed from when i started so I don't need as much depth which allows me to add some thickness if that would work out?


----------



## Boatman53

The down side to a very thick top (I don't know what yours would end up that way) is the need for longer clamps to clamp things to the top and if you are going to use holdfasts you most likely will have to counterbore the back sides of the holes. It seems they don't like to grip on thick benches.
Jim


----------



## Airframer

The total thickness would be just shy of 4 3/4" if done this way otherwise it is right around 2 1/2" which just feels thin to me. The bench will have plenty of clamping options on it and dog holes for some holdfasts so I'm not as concerned about clamping as I am making sure that laminating the top in that manner wont bite me in the rear later on.

Thinking about it though.. that is how a lot of legs are laminated so it should work right?


----------



## Boatman53

If you could stagger the edges and joints somehow I don't see why not. 4 1/2" is what some are. But you still might need to counterbore somewhat.
Jim

Edit: for what it's worth my bench is 2 1/2" thick just over 5' long. The legs are 4' apart and I don't think it's too thin. 3" would be better but it would have limiter some of the clamping options I was looking for.


----------



## donwilwol

Definitely stagger those joints airframer


----------



## BillWyko

Well, I ordered the 2 other vises I need to complete the project. After a lot of research I decided on the Veritas QR bench front vise and the Veritas QR tail vise, I already have the twin screw in the box paitently waiting. There are a couple features that really made it worth while to go with these, one being the quick release lever instead of a vise that releases by unscrewing it. The other feature I like is the glue gaurd to prevent glue from getting on the screw and grease from the screw getting on the project. Both of those features solve problems I have had on my other QR vise at home. The other thing that I like about Veritas is, quality. Seems like everything the make was designed and tested by a real woodworker and actually tested in the real world of woodworking. I can't tell you how many times I've bought a product that sounded good but when put to use in the real world, just doesn't do the job. almost always because an engineer thought it was brilliant on his computer and never tested in the hands of a real user. Enough for now, I'll do a review and installation blog on all of this stuff. What an exciting build, like Christmas in March.


----------



## Airframer

Just so that I am clear by staggering the joints you mean like this?


----------



## donwilwol

well, I get it now….I miss understood the drawing, but it would still be better, but not as important. Just so I'm sure I'm clear, the pieces will be full length, but you'll make 2 tops and laminate them together, or you planned to laminate the pieces to make them wider, then laminate the top?

If your going to make 2 tops and laminate them, then yes, stagger the joints. I think I would glue them up to make them wider first and then laminate the top together. Are the pieces exactly the same width? If not flip them and the joint will be staggered.

I'm pretty sure Al bough 2 tops from HF and glued them together.

I hope I made some sense there.


----------



## Boatman53

That's about what I was picturing. You might want to use epoxy to join the upper and lower sections or can you plane them flat to ensure good gluing?


----------



## Airframer

Basically yeah. My plan was to laminate up 4×4 squares side grain up on both layers then laminate those 4×4 posts up to make the top. In that pic the face grain is along the sides and the side grain is on top and bottom.

Oh, I see where the confusion lies.. That drawing is looking at the end grain for orientations sakes.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Air, I'm known to aggravate myself, but to get 50% more thickness (avoid too thick) and keep as much width as possible to the bench, I'd rip a fourth of the boards in half and add them to the full ones like this:










It'll more than double the work you're doing, but be (IMO) a better product.


----------



## BillWyko

Is your diagram looking at the end of the bench? Smitty was posting at the same time as me. His diagram would be the strongest method due to there being no joints falling in line with each other in the horizontal plane.


----------



## Airframer

Yes looking at the end. Smitty! I wish I had thought of that about 30 mins ago! I already have 2 pairs glued up and was waiting to see if I should stack them and glue 4×4 style or glue them up next to each other and scrap the thicker top idea all together.

I really need to stop thinking.. every time I do I just complicate this thing lol.


----------



## Boatman53

If you can do it as Smitty has drawn, much stronger. 
Jim


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sorry, just got off the road and into the house to post! Been thinking on the problem, wanting to contribute!


----------



## donwilwol

what smitty showed is what I was getting at flipping the boards. They only need to be offset, so if they are identical width, then smitty has the best idea.


----------



## Airframer

lol.. no worries. I think… I'm just going to keep this simple and do one layer and build the weight into the base.

K.I.S.S. needs to be implemented here.


----------



## donwilwol

lucky you Smitty. I'm in the Atlanta airport ready to hopefully fly into a snow storm!!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Airports suck. But I'm not telling you anything…

Air, it takes intestinal fortitude to aggravate oneself. If it was weight you're after, vs. thickness, 2.5" thick benchtops are just fine. Mine is just under 3", no worries.


----------



## donwilwol

mine is only 2.5" as well. Skirt is wider that's all.


----------



## BrandonW

I do like Smitty's idea! I was gonna suggest an alternative, but then I saw Smitty's and can't top that. And that drawing is the bees knees, too! ;-)

Don, I can't believe you had a layover in ATL and didn't think to visit me.


----------



## donwilwol

I think I spend more time in the Atlanta airport than I do my shop!


----------



## BrandonW

So, what you're saying is that you frequent ATL, but never come visit me, or Mauricio for that matter?


----------



## donwilwol

I'm coming from Tampa and never visited the beach either. No rest for the wicked.


----------



## BrandonW

Oh TAMPA. You have already done your sentence.


----------



## chrisstef

All work and no play makes Don a dull boy 

Heerreeee's Doonnny!!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Spared no expense on that drawing, Shane. But anything for Airframer.


----------



## Airframer

I'm touched lol.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

At no point did my fingers leave my hands during the production of said drawing. Just sayin…


----------



## mochoa

Airframer you are making a ton of work for yourself doing that. Smitty's idea is a good one for reducing it somewhat.

However, I don't think staggering the joint would add much additional strength for the added work it would cause.

How long is your bench going to be? 4.5" on a short bench might not look right.

Mine is 2.5" and I added a another inch on the front 4 inches.


----------



## Boatman53

Now to back up a couple dozen posts about the bench top bench. This is something I built about 28 years ago. Perhaps I was ahead of my time.



























The top is 8"x19" and it is 7 1/4" high. 
The reality is we are just catching up to the past. My inspiration to build it came from an article written 72 years ago in April in American Rifleman magazine. I've searched all over the Internet to try and find it but to no avail. I have a hard copy but don't know if I would get in trouble if I posted it. Does anyone know?
Anyway I don't use it so much as a bench on bench but as just a a small bench that I can take on board boats and have something to clamp to and work on. It has proved very useful. The other thing I use a lot at the bench and away on the job site are these. I use them on the bench to raise pieces up fo gluing, it gives clamps a place to go. They are called japanese saw horses. I however left the feet square so I can clamp them down if needed.








Jim


----------



## BrandonW

Fine art:


----------



## Boatman53

I like it Brandon. Just like the recent art find in Bellport, NY. Couple bought a house as an investment and stashed in the attic and garage was 30 million dollars worth of art. Go figure. I bet the sellers are kicking themselves about now.
Jim


----------



## Dakkar

Nice little table topper, Boatman53. That could serve a lot of purposes on the boat, I suppose, like seating, stepstool, etc. as well as a workbench.


----------



## Boatman53

I have used it to stand on, never thought or had the need to sit on it however. On the boats if I'm not standing I'm crawling under or stuffed in some dark damp place. Rarely sitting.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow. First the back of the HPOYD Calendar, now this…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop




----------



## BrandonW

LOL, I just changed my avatar.

Boatman, when we bought our house, the only thing I found in the attic was some painted particle-board cut-outs of the wise men for xmas decorations. Unfortunately one of their staffs was already broken.


----------



## Airframer

You all have successfully talked me out of doing what I was thinking of doing. I sure am glad I asked before I put any glue on that idea.

Mauricio, the length is right around 6' a bit more once the end cap is added. I think I'll do something similar to that to thicken up the front edge a bit to make the leg vise more useful.

As a side note… I just already used the small bit that is glued up as… a bench lol. I can't WAIT to have a wagon vise! I am so tired of chasing that which is getting planed…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Air, that would be the first time this crew has ever steered someone into doing something that didn't involve spending more money on bench hardware, or hand plane, or saw, or sharpening stones, or marking tool, or, or, or,...

But if you hang around long enough, I'll sure we'll get to you.


----------



## ksSlim

Found Art????
@DonW_Got time to spare….............go by air.


----------



## pastahill

Hy Don, i hope your time in tampa was successful. Maybe you have seen a piece of artwork i have done here in munich for Cathrin Woods, It´s called the kinetic ringand located at the westshore area.


----------



## RGtools

So, as I was reorganizing the other night I realized that I have not just one but two really cool book-matches in that stack of maple. Maple that incidentally, my wife bought for me…I have the best woman.





































Run out is not a huge deal on these (the guy who cuts it knows what he is doing), but the figure is pretty gnarly…the good news is I get some time while it dries out to think about it.


----------



## donwilwol

nothing better than getting home, landing in a snow storm, driving 40 minutes on unplowed roads and now I get to shovel !

Hopefully it all means shop time this evening.


----------



## chrisstef

Glad ya made it home Don. As i was driving through the still falling snow here in CT i was wondering if you had made it. Treat yourself to a hang out with Jack tonight in the shop. Doctor Stef's orders.


----------



## donwilwol

Ryan, beautiful maple pieces. You're gonna need a plan for that. I got a piece of splalted birch that I split that looks similar. Its sitting there till the revelation hits.

Stef, good advice. I'm goin with it.


----------



## RGtools

For the first book match, I could call it "The Smiling Bench".


----------



## mochoa

Pasta that's amazing work man!

Air Framer, I know you are doing your bench mostly with hand tools. To keep things in perspective look for pics of antique benches that were made with hand tools, their tops are usually made with 2 pieces of wood. You wont see many Schwarz style behemoths.

Here is a site with antique benches I like to frequent. http://www.1stdibs.com/search/?q=workbench

RG that's some nice wood, ere uhh, I mean that's some nice maple you got there.

Don, have a cold one my friend, you deserve it.


----------



## carguy460

Thanks alot, Maur…I have a crapton of stuff to do today, and you go and post a link to those awesome benches…

My day is shot.


----------



## mochoa

Hey isn't that what we are here for Jason? To distract each other and destroy our productivity?


----------



## pastahill

If you want see a lot of old benches for not so much money (sure unrestored ) then look at this link


----------



## BillWyko

Not much to look at yet but I got the tenon for the end vise done today. One step closer. Gotta leave for a wedding shortly, no more progress today.


----------



## terryR

+1 on how a 60% completed bench can stay that way for a while. I keep using mine to get caught up on…

current view of bench being built:


----------



## chrisstef

I see the bandaids Terry … Get a new shop scar? No blood on the bench before finish!


----------



## terryR

^LOL!

Stef, see the blue tarp clamped to my tool well? It's currently a backstop to prevent flint chips from invading my shop area…I've been knapping just to the right of the photo…yes…Inside due to the weather. band aids are never far from my knapping bench!


----------



## Airframer

Whats worse than watching paint dry?..... Watching glue dry! Almost there!

Top minus dog strip/tool tray and skirt



















Dog Strip gluing up… Is there such a thing as too many clamps? Nahh…


----------



## chrisstef

Hey better bandaids than stitches in my book, but then again my index finger still hurts when i make a fist after a slippery chisel attack so my opinion is slightly stupid. Carry on.


----------



## Mosquito

Progress!


----------



## DanKrager

Mos, I feel sorry for you poh old workmate. It has a lot of grace to let you use it to make classy stuff that takes all the attention away from it. You should do something nice for it soon. Maybe drink a WD40 toast with it, or split a can of wax?
DanK


----------



## waho6o9

Home made cauls AirFramer, just some friendly advice FWIW

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/12302


----------



## Airframer

Waho.. They wouldn't have helped much with this glue up. The staggering you see is due to my stellar (mis)use of a circular saw. Almost all of my cuts varied in thickness by a little bit :-(

It will be a looong night of planing to get it flat but I am up for it lol.


----------



## waho6o9

May the sharp blade make short work of it. You'll get that puppy flat, no doubt.


----------



## WhoMe

With the new round of workbench creations, I thought I would ask a couple questions. 
1. What type of glue are you using? Looking at Titebond, I see some have used the #1 Red label (standard) but has anyone needed the longer open time of the #2 blue label. I would think that it would be beneficial when gluing up the tops. 
2. When gluing up the boards, are you putting glue on both surfaces or just 1 surface.
3. What are you using to spread the glue. I have seen people use the rollers as spreaders or old credit card type spreaders. I have even seen a notched credit card used for spreading the glue.

I would love to hear what people did for these 3 questions.


----------



## Mosquito

Heh, Dan, it was complaining a little with that big slab on it, but it worked well enough lol.

As much as I dislike the workmate, I must admit, if you're willing enough to *make* it work, it does. I've been able to do quite a bit with mine. Though it is starting to get a little worse for the wear… the clips on the orange handles have both broken off, so they don't stay in well, the metal end where the screws go through are bowed in, so I have to pull the handles out to turn past the top (which is made difficult by the orange handles being broken). Oh well, motivation to finish the bench, I guess


----------



## Mosquito

WhoMe


I used TBIII 
I did a thin layer on both surfaces
I used a 2" foam brush to spread the glue out. I've also used a small foam roller before, but I didn't like it, because it didn't spread it out very well/quickly.


----------



## BillWyko

Anyone doing square dog holes, remember to line them up parallel across the bench. I made mine in 2 sides and just so happen to notice I had a different starting point for my jig by about 1/2 inch. Also remember you'll want to make left & right jigs for making the DH's. Almost made too many of one side too. As far as the alignment goes, I just shifted one side by the difference before I made the tenon at the end. I don't think I posted this but here's one of the jigs, there's a left & right.


----------



## terryR

WhoMe,
I use Titebond3, spread kinda thick only on one board, with a piece of plastic scrap from rubbermaid or something?

Gonna have a go at flattening my bench top today…making an extra pot of coffee now!


----------



## chrisstef

Go get em Terry! Sounds like youre gonna need the missus to hook up a nice big lunch to replenish your strength after a morning of bench flattening.


----------



## Mosquito

I got the wood hogged out for the wagon vise, at least the bulk of it. Combination of the noisy/messy router, a #78, and some good old fashioned chisel work. I cut what I could with a saw close-ish to the lines, and chopped out a good bit of it with my mortise chisel before hitting it with the router


----------



## terryR

That's a sweet looking piece of joinery, Mos! I'm still amazed at what you can pull off on that plastic table…

Bench top flattened today. Used a No.4 for a handful of diagonal passes…then the No.7 for straight grain clean up. Damn pine has difficult grain around the knots, so I used the ROS to clean up further…

Do I feel manly now? Hell NO! My shoulders are killing me already. 

How much are those routers?


----------



## terryR

Yeah, I know…

Photos or it didn't happen! 

After a few diagonal passes with the 4 I had a bowl in the center of the bench highlighted by the orange…then later by the green pencils…you can see where the tiny depth gauge is able to pass under my fancy straight edge.









Later, when the shavings from the 7 were full width and full length, I knew I was done.









I hated to use the ROS, but my plane skills are lacking…Now, it's time for some serious Oreo consumption!!!


----------



## donwilwol

sweet shavings Terry.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice work Terry. The tool tray looks good filled with shavings lol


----------



## mochoa

Great looking bench progress from the Minister, AF, Terry and Mos! I love all this workbench action.

Mos that wagon recess looks mighty clean! Nice work.

Terry, whats up with the constellations you drew on your bench top? Lol, you're gonna feel good tomorrow after that workout. No shame on the ROS, the bench is a big job and I say you can use all the help you can get. The bench will help with the galootness going forward.

Who Me, you can get a Teflon (?) basting brush from the dollar store for spreading glue. Its non stick so the glue is easy to peel off after it dries.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Mauricio. I was relatively happy with how it turned. I was hoping the flush trim bit I had would reach all the way, but it was about 1/4" shy if my line, so I ended up having to improvise a little more.

Gluing the front apron piece on to the bench top now. It's sitting on top of the legs, so I wouldn't have to worry about squeeze out getting on the leg tenons and making it no longer capable of disassembly.


----------



## mochoa

Nice!


----------



## Mosquito

Slightly annoyed that I had to carry it down to the basement to do it, but I figured 40 degrees in the garage was a little on the low side for gluing up lol


----------



## Airframer

Thanks Mauricio. I have finally.. FINALLY nailed down the final shape and design of my bench. I just finished gluing up the dog strip.. Laminated some 4/4 Cherry to the top of an Oak strip to give it a bit more thickness for the hold fasts to grab. Figured out my skirting and sorted out the leg issues. Now to just finish the darn thing lol. No pics tonight because I am at work but I'll update my blog soon.

*Note to self…. stop building things off of drawings kept inside my head and actually draw up some f'n plans!


----------



## mochoa

Wait what? How did I help you make that decision? What are you planing to do?


----------



## BillWyko

Man I gotta say, this Bubinga is hard as steel. A few blows with the mallet & it's back to sharpening. I also kind of cheated, Harbor Freight sells a great air file. I touched the tails up with the AF quite quickly. Waiting for some 12/4 Hard maple to come in now so I can do the pins. 
I have to compliment the rest of you that are building benches, well done my friends.
Don't feel bad about the ROS, I sent mine out for drum sanding. Gotta pick your battles.


----------



## jm540

i have a 10/4 red oak top glued up with some is spalted and sap has been stablized with cna, 3/4 square dogs have beeen millid in at the correct angle, 4 roughed out black walnut ball and claw feet along with a Lee valley twin screw tail vice new in the box, two face vices one with pop up flat dog and 1 with a teak drop in ready to go i want to sell.

I have to have money here it is 
have to sell getting fast 
Lee Vally tail vice new in box, two cheeper face vices, 42 inch center lathe, delta unisaw old working, routers 3 1/4 2/12 and a bunch others, drill press, over 600 bf hard wood, jet 1 1/4hp 14" band saw, antique hand tools, 2 1/4 hp dust collecter with +/- 100 pvs fittings 2 stage collector,sharpening systems out the yen, radial and compound miter saws, no 55 stanley with all blades in original box with original manual, router bits, drill bits, a bunch of pocket hinges, 10 or more set of two cherries chisels,bass wood and flex carves as well as other chissels and knives, liegh d24r jigs much more

I am selling fast and cheap it has to go in 2 weeks, if you cant pay cash or have it in athens iTn n 1.5 weeks dont call if you can please come get it im selling cheap. after that it is yard sale then putting in storage.

423 333 9766


----------



## terryR

Mauricio, I think I was getting hypoglycemic at that stage, and was seeing stars…hence the constellations on my bench top!  No, seriuosly, I was attempting to outline the dished out section…then show how it was improving.

Man, am I sore this morning!

Hey, HM, those are sweet looking tails! In Bubinga nonetheless! Wow.

What's an air file? Hope it's not like an air guitar…


----------



## BrandonW

HM, wow, that's beautiful! I can't wait to see how the bench is going to turn out. What's an air file? A pneumatic file?


----------



## terryR

ahhhh….air file is pneumatic tiny filing tool…very useful looking!

Do they make one large enough to hold an Auriou rasp?


----------



## BrandonW

Do they make one large enough to hold an Auriou rasp?

LOL. The epitome of old meets new.


----------



## terryR

Hmmmm…









gives me bad ideas!


----------



## paratrooper34

Dakkar, in your post #3174, you show a nice interpretation of the one that I copied. I am sure it has lots of additional uses than what I use mine for. I think I ran across one those prior to building mine. The main reason I built mine was to facilitate dovetail cutting. On mine, I can put up to 15" wide boards for cutting dovetails. It has proven itself to be very valuable as I brought the work up to a higher level for ease of viewing. With glasses now a necessity, this is a very good aid for me.

Here is the benchtop bench with a 15" wide board in it.



















It is a workbench appliance that is a nice addition to my shop.


----------



## Airframer

Don't worry Mauricio you are innocent lol.

I was simply commenting on my inability to actually draw up plans for anything I build and tend to just "wing it" which often leads to costly mistakes or miscalculations.


----------



## BillWyko

Here's a pic of the air file. 20 bucks.This thing actually works pretty good.


----------



## Mosquito




----------



## AnthonyReed

Oh hell yeah Mos!!


----------



## Mosquito

I've got the block for the wagon vise cut, but it's slightly oversized, so I have to file it down more (end grain red oak… blah). Then I have to attach the rail for the other side, drill and tap for a wooden screw (Anyone need/want a Lee Valley shoulder vise screw?)


----------



## terryR

Mike, that's a great bench top addition! Gonna Have to make one this spring…maybe I can even afford to make it from cherry???

Mos, that's just freekin awesome, bud! Awesome!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice, indeed!


----------



## LeChuck

Very cool. Those vises must be so practical to hold boards. I used my workbench for the first time yesterday, planing boards to use for a shelf, and man do I need more work holding capabilities. I had only a couple brass dogs and they kept on slipping down into the holes. I think I must have gotten some wax in there so I'll need to clean that up a bit. I also need some shorter bench dogs because a number of dog holes have been plugged at the bottom by the legs of the base and some boards I used as braces and to install the front vise…

So I was planing against the 2 dogs but that was a real pain as it kept on moving around or slipping (bench dogs going fully into the holes then boards shooting forward).

I have a couple Jorgensen bench clamps but they were not practical to use in this case. I think I need the shorter dogs, perhaps a couple holdfasts and also a couple of those wonder dog/pup things to make up for the lack of a tail vise. Those are a bit pricey.


----------



## mochoa

Paratrooper, very nice bench top bench.

Mos the bench is looking awesome man! Very nice work on the wagon vise cut out.


----------



## 1yeldud1

Hey LeChuck - about those bench dogs slipping down in their holes. I went to an auto supply store and purchased "o" rings that are snug on the dogs. When I insert these into the bench holes the "o" rings keep the dogs from slipping in too deep. When a board is clamped the "o" ring compresses against the dog and actually increases the hold against your board. I had a hole drilled and tapped in the top of my home made bench dogs so I could insert a 1/4 screw and actually extract the dogs that are too deep. (my bench's dog holes are blind holes so this can happen often) the blind holes are kind of a pain due to getting filled with sawdust.


----------



## LeChuck

Thanks for the tip on the o-rings!


----------



## Mosquito

I've also seen people use o-rings, or rubber bands around the top of the dog too


----------



## ksSlim

Planing stop?
.375 or .50 material with dowels of appropriate size guled in at the correct spacing?


----------



## LeChuck

I'll try the planing stop. It should work for boards that aren't too thin. I guess I can also just clamp a board for that.


----------



## yuridichesky

Mike, very nice stack of benches 

Mos, you rock! When we gonna see wagon vise installed?


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Yuri. I've got to get the bolts for the endcaps figured out before I can call the wagon vise done. I've got the wagon vise block almost complete, just need to drill and tap it, then make the screw.


----------



## Mosquito




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## Mosquito

I should probably mention that the screw in the pictures was my practice screw, and not the one I intend to use for the wagon vise. I'll be making a new one (that one isn't long enough)


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## Boatman53

Great job Chris. I love seeing these benches come together.


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## AnthonyReed

Will the new screw have the same thread count Mos?


----------



## mochoa

Hell yeah Mos! Its looking great man. Gonna be so cool to be all wooden scews.


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## terryR

+1 on the double wood screws being very high on the cool scale! Love your work Mos!


----------



## Mosquito

Tony, same thread count as the practice screw? If that's the question then yes. I bought a wood threading and tapping kit for 1 1/2", so I'm sort of stuck in terms of options lol. It's 6TPI, which I don't think is too bad. Going to have to get used to turning it backwards compared to what is "normal" for the wagon vise, though. Loosen to tighten the hold, tighten to loosen the hold….

Thanks guys, I've been able to make some good progress lately, and I'm pretty excited about that. The tool well groove in the back piece isn't going as well as I'd hoped, but I think we'll get it there eventually.

Just wish I had a lathe to make the groove for the garter plates easier on these screws lol Oh well, I've got a few ideas to deal with it better, maybe one of 'em will work.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Yes that was my question Mos, i apologize i was not more clear. Thanks.

The 6 TPI is sufficiently quick in your opinion?

I have learned by now that you are quite capable of surmounting woodworking challenges and i am sure the garter will be no exception.


----------



## Mosquito

The way I look at it, 6TPI can't be any worse than the workmate screws lol. I haven't had the chance to use it in an actual vise, but 6TPI seems ok from the experimenting I've done so far. Only place I'd really be worried about would be the wagon vise. I think the leg vise shouldn't have to move as far that often.


----------



## Boatman53

Mos… You could cut the garter groove on the band saw, table saw or router table if you made a vee block to support the screw so it didn't roll. Don't know if you have any of those however.
Jim


----------



## mochoa

You can use a router, Clamp it upside down on the workmate and clamp a piece of wood on to the base of the router as a fence. You will need a stop block on the fence to. Just put the dowel up against the fence with the bit centered on the dowel and spin the dowel.


----------



## Mosquito

I've got a home made router table that I'd thought about trying to use. I've got an idea to drill a hole into the end of some scrap, and then cut a saw kerf perpendicular to the hole to a specific depth. Then I could use that saw kerf to saw around the dowel in 2 spots (using a stop block and spacer). and chisel out the waste, or make another jig for using the router plane to clean up the depth. I've got a few things to try


----------



## BillWyko

Mos, you're bench is looking fantastic. Shipwright did a wagon vise too but with a wedge technique. Thanks for keeping is updated, really enjoying the process.


----------



## terryR

Major Galootness…

I turned a handful of Walnut pins for my bench legs…

...but I guess they shrank in diameter the past few weeks OR I measured a different drill bit when I chose their size. Anyway, the walnut is too small for my use. Arrrgghh!

I started turning more yesterday from Brazilian Ironwood…3 legs completed…1 more for today. Then back to the leg vise which is very intimidating! I only have 8" of space beneath my leg stretchers…gonna be tight with a parallel guide and 2 wheels!


----------



## AnthonyReed

^ Pictures or you knitted and only thought about walnut pins.

Is turning them easier than using a dowel plate?









You have the skills Terry, no need to be intimidated.

Can't the parallel guide go above the stretcher?


----------



## terryR

Tony, photos of the walnut pins in my last blog, bud! 

Yeah, I've considered the parallel guide ABOVE the strechers, but the physics side of me brain says the greater distance between that lower pin and the screw, the more torque I get.

Of course, my post op back says go with Tony's photo! I've been looking at tons of leg vise photos the past 2 weeks, and have seen lots done that way, too.

There's just too many options, dangit! I need a set of plans to follow.


----------



## terryR

^Oh yeah, about the dowel plates…

They probably ARE faster…but I don't have any good ones. I've made 'em in the shop and the results aren't that round. And, I have more time than money…


----------



## AnthonyReed

My apologies Terry. I retract my knitting accusation.


----------



## terryR

Tony, no need to apologize! You know I also cross-stitch and weave baskets! no fooling. I even bake my own bread…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Of course, it's most important to build a bench the way you want, but I'd like to ask for some input on something that strikes me as odd.

Why the need to (over) build a leg vise with wheels and auto-adjusters?

Really don't want to be a curmudgeon, but moving a pin isn't hard, and I've not seen a need to put wheels on my parallel guide. If it's 'because they're cool,' I'll understand. And like I said, I support whatever bench my LJ friends wish to build. Building one is the important part. Just want to know if I'm missing something obvious.


----------



## Mosquito

I intend to use a standard pin parallel guide on my leg vise, but am undecided on the wheels. I wouldn't use that large of wheels if I went that route.

The advantage I see to the wheels is that it should make it smoother when operating the vise, so you don't have to worry about it binding. That said, I'll be building mine with out it, and then debating whether or not I want to add it after I get some more experience with it.


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## terryR

Just 'cause they look cool, Smit! 

Seriously, I assume mine won't move easily without the wheels due to the size of the chop. Maple 2.75×8x32". Once assembled…if it works, then I'll forget about wheels…just looking ahead…


----------



## donwilwol

I get your question Smitty, and have often wondered it myself. Mine slides across the concrete floor. Smooth? Not so much. I have to "pop" it back when I reset the pin wider. It all takes something to the tune of 2 - 3 seconds and I suppose in 100 years or so, the where on the bottom of the chop could be noticeable.

But I understand cool. Hell, I added a wheel for cool, and wound up with something that worked sweet!!


----------



## mochoa

I think the wheels make sense if you have a hand wheel on your screw. Then you can quickly spin it in and out and get that smooth glide effect like the Benchcrafted vises have.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The base of my chop was to the floor, but then didn't slide out because of the wood chips on the floor. I cut a 1/2" off the bottom and it's better now, but sometimes still forces me to sweep up a bit. 

To your point, Terry, the threaded rod on my bench runs through the collet (is that what that piece is called?) and through a the 4" leg, a fit that also pretty snug. The chop isn't the size you're talking about, but there's little sag. I did lengthen the leg's mortise a bit after the first couple days' use to get easier movement.


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## Boatman53

Smitty… I've had a leg vise in my shop for about thirty years and I thought like you stated above. No big deal to move the pin and the beam actually had only gross adjustment. But it worked and I liked it. It was old when I bought it, don't know it's actual age. Then the community boat shop wants to put a 30' bench in the new building and I talked them into 4 leg vises. The screws are ordered from Lie-Nielson. When they arrived I knew there would be a problem. Thet didn't look at all like the old screws. These were nicely machined they even had roller bearings at the handle flange for a smooth operation, no metal on metal grinding. They did not like to be anything but 90 degrees to the chop. The crew at the boat shop are beginners and volunteers with very little knowledge. Most of them old. They just weren't going to be moving the pin as they should and something would get broken. That is the only reason i went on my quest to find a solution, and there are others, but i liked the chain.This is an old screw and rou can see it has a ball type joint that allows for out of parallelism.
























None of the new screws are like that. Once I discovered the chain, that was it, I just didn't have to think about or plan ahead any more. The rollers do add to how smooth the vise works. I use a lot of different thickness wood so it makes a big difference to me. If you just worked in the 3/4" no big deal.
Jim


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## RGtools

Smitty, I am kind of with you on the Leg Vise tweaks (though the Boatman Chain Drive is on my wish list). It's Simple and it works, kind of like me. I think that is why looking at other peoples benches is kind of fun; it is an insight into how they work and think.

Some contraptions seem to be very odd but the fit the craftsmen who made them…and often times: they are just plain cool.


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## mochoa

I've been pretty happy with my wooden screw parallel guide so far.

The other day I made a little handled tote for my son. After glue up I needed to plane all the sides smooth and since it is a rectangluar box I had to adjust the parallel guide a couple of times. It worked great with just a little flick of the foot. Pretty cool!

Neccessary… No. Would a pin be suficient.. yes. Would it be as cool… No.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jim, those pics indeed show what I have installed! I totally get your points:

-Use tech to ensure pin is moved as it should
-Proper alignment of chop prevents damage to the screw
-New-market screws have tighter tolerances, re: being perpendicular to the leg / chop

Awesome response, it's what I was looking for!


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## lysdexic

Smitty, asked me a question on my Moxon Vise project thread but I thought I'd answer it here too.

He asked if the Moxon Vise raised the work too high for sawing DTs. I think the height is perfect but I am also near sighted and the closer things are to my face the better.


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## mochoa

Very nice.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You're a wrong-way, Scotty? I had no idea!


----------



## Brit

...or is he Smitty?


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## lysdexic

Although ambidextrous, I saw right handed. I held the saw in the left hand secondary to the sunlight.


----------



## BrandonW

I'm ambidextrous too. My problem is that I switch between left-handed and right-handed with sawing that I'm not really sure what my dominant hand is for sawing. I think I need to pick one and stick with it.


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## Brit

Thought so Scott. There's no way you would have built a right-handed bench if you were left-handed after all the thought you put into it.


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## LeChuck

Don't go messing with southpaws. They do everything backwards!


----------



## lysdexic

I am not ambidextrous but i dont know the name. I call myself confused. Everything fine with the left hand and all ballistic, athletic movements with the right. But can't switch back and forth.


----------



## BillWyko

I'm also ambidextrous. When I use a jigsaw I switch hands to adjust to what ever gives me a better view of the line, same with a skillsaw. I write with my right hand but throw with my left. When I bowl, I switch back & forth with ease. A little known fact, from archeology it has been determined that 11% of the world has been left handed through out history and those that can write equally with both hands add up to 1%. So the question becomes, is there anything someone should do to a bench when building it for an ambidextrous person?

LeChuck (David), are you in Tucson? So am I


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## Brit

I write with my left hand, but naturally kick with my right foot. Any two-handed sports, I play right-handed. Any one-handed sports I play left-handed. I've kind of trained myself to use tools (except hammers) with both hands.


----------



## chrisstef

Wow, its pretty amazing to hear that a lot of you guys go both hands. My left arm / hand is basically a flipper.

There's a pile of jokes that im going to leave alone here.

I saw right handed. Not well either. I want a new saw.

Thankfully its Friday.


----------



## terryR

I'm not ambidextrous, but I can't cut a straght line right handed…should I try lefty? Or start sending me cut work out to ScottyB?

A quick question on saw files if I may…

I finally found and purchased 2 boxes of files from Grobet USA…got them in the mail…opened the boxes and the files say 'Made in India'. I thought Grobet files were Swedish or French? Did I get tricked on the purchase? Or do I need to re-read ALL of Andy's blogs?


----------



## mochoa

What do yall think about one of these?









It doesn't replace a moxon vise for everything but it does for a lot of them. And it takes up much less space. You can use it for sawing dovetails as well as cross cutting boards. You cant do the dovetail waste paring trick that Scott showed previously. You could attach it to the bench as shown in the picture or clamp it in an existing leg vise…. 
Plus I just like it because I can use one of my wooden screws on it. 
Just food for thought….


----------



## LeChuck

I've got one of those in my favorites and totally want to make one, but I think in addition to a moxon vise.


----------



## Airframer

I would still think a Moxon would be handier for cutting dove tails because you still have the screw in the way of longer pieces. Now.. you COULD build a Moxon that can be clamped both vertically or horizontally and then you could have both vises in one I would think. Just looking at the way that vise is built with the 2 screws. Food for thought…


----------



## Boatman53

I don't think it will work that great for dovetails Mauricio, the screw gets in the way. I do like it, have wanted to build one for a while, I keep getting sidetracked. I first saw one here http://www.popularwoodworking.com/workbenches/schwarz-workbenches/meet-the-etaux-from-old-salem's-shop
Made to fit in the open jaws of the end vise.
Jim


----------



## Ken90712

Some Great Benches!


----------



## mochoa

AF, thats an interesting thought to. Some kind of way to turn a moxon sideways.

I saw that blog Jim but what about if you made it so it could be clamped in a leg vise? Then this extension vise could be clamped on an angle which would get the screw out of the way.


----------



## mochoa

Here is one Kova posted a while back. This one could even be clamped down sideways I would imagine. 









This one is not as cool as the fist one though, and looks more complicated to build. Its got some kind of track that keeps the jaws constantly parallel.


----------



## Boatman53

Here's one from my collection. 









It is not that difficult to build. All the pieces are small and chunky. And of course BenchCrafted is coming out with a hardware set. There is a link in the article I just posted with measured drawings that I believe was the basis for BenchCrafted.
Jim


----------



## DanKrager

Mos, I do like your bench. It's been fun to follow its progress.
May I point out a potential issue with the wagon vise? I wonder if the grain is running 90 degrees to what is best for the dog hole block? It seems like pressure would split out the block. ??? It would seem to me that the grain might best run parallel to the bench top grain. What do you think?
DanK


----------



## mochoa

Jim I read through some of the replies on that Schwarz post and one guy had a good response he didnt get an answer to. Why not just sit down? Have a stool that gets you at the right height for sawing at your existing vise?


----------



## RGtools

I do that when I get tired of bending over…but it's my toolchest that is supporting my fanny.


----------



## Boatman53

Mauricio.. I think I just move too much. I use my whole body when working. The only time I sit down is when I have to write something or doing simple assembly. I don't think I could do something like sawing if I was sitting down. I do have a stool at the shop but raising things up in narrower jaws also gives more access all around something the bench vise doesn't.
Jim


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Dan. I had thought about orienting the grain to run the same as the bench, but I didn't want to drill through and tap from the endgrain. The block is 3" long, and the dog will only be 3/4". If I'm putting enough pressure on the dog to split it out, I've probably got to rethink what it is I'm doing. If nothing else, I intend to leave the endcaps so I can remove them. I could always replace the wagon if I have to


----------



## DanKrager

Good, Mos. I just didn't want to see an "OH S&%*" moment.
DanK


----------



## Mosquito

much appreciated, I've had a few of those on various projects lol


----------



## lysdexic

Drankin'


----------



## Boatman53

Here's another vise and parallel arraignment. I first saw it printed in WoodenBoat magazine just found all the articles by Harry Bryan in a book.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/119137998/making-hand-tools
Pretty good stuff.
Jim


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Funny, I don't see any dranks for a couple of feller's what's supposed to be drankin'.


----------



## mochoa

BrandonW and ScottyB hanging out in NC? Going to Underhill's? Sorry I couldn't join you fellas on that trip. Next time…


----------



## lysdexic

Brandon wanted to hide the beers in case his wife might see the picture. I reluctantly agreed.

And just so you know - - he called *ME* and asked if I was wearing a brown thermal.


----------



## Airframer

Speaking of vises.. finished my re-design of my wagon vise undercarriage today.


----------



## Brit

Great photo Scott.

Airframer - That looks really interesting, but I can't stop thinking about trombones for some reason. )


----------



## yuridichesky

Random shop shot (leg vise training):










Finally got screw, nut, and the wheel back from machinist shop. Flange on the nut was slightly burned during welding, but it's ok.


----------



## Boatman53

Nice hardware Yuri, but why the pipe sticking out from the center of the hand wheel?
Jim


----------



## yuridichesky

Thanks, Jim.

Here's what I have now:










The threaded part of the screw is (and was) about 10", the other part of the screw was partly round (but smaller diameter than threaded part) and partly filed to square. 10" is way too small for the vise-the leg plus chop plus wheel give about 6". I hired professional metal turner to make extending spigot exactly of the same diameter as the threaded part of the screw and to turn non-threaded part of the screw to fit with internal diameter of this spigot. Plus I asked him to turn wheel's mounting diameter to fit with the screw (the wheel was from some another machine or something, just a flea market find). So now I have full 10" of the vise clamping distance and will be able to mount chop and the wheel easily.

Edit: and I'll use rivets to secure spigot on the screw.


----------



## yuridichesky

BTW, what's "usual" clamping capacity of the leg vise? The 10" that I expect from my leg vise seem to be pretty large (at least for my small workbench). What do you have, guys?


----------



## BillWyko

As luck would have it, I got my 12/4 hard Maple to do the condor pins. Now I'll be out of town for the weekend so no progress will be made. My other 2 vises will ship Monday from Veritas so I guess it will all come together around the same time.


----------



## Boatman53

Yuri, if I'm reading this correctly the threaded portion is 10" you will not have 10"" clamping space as you need to deduct the thickness of the leg and chop.
I have two leg vises and one can clamp 11" and the other 6". But I do a lot weird projects so I'm glad to have the extra length on onw of them. For some the most they might clamp would be a drawer so 6" might be fine..
Jim


----------



## yuridichesky

Jim, I had to explain it better than I did. (Though not sure that my quick drawing makes it any better.)










You see the pipe is flush with threaded part of the screw, so threaded part does not go through the leg (and chop) when vise is fully closed. That's why clamping space is almost the same as length of threaded part of the screw.


----------



## Boatman53

Thanks Yuri that is very clear. But now I have another question. It looks like a flange or bushing between the wheel and the chop screwed to the chop, is there some way that that opens the chop when the wheel is turned? Is it like a coller that engages the wheel some how? If that is not what it does I have some ideas from your drawing to have the chop open with the screw.
Jim


----------



## OnlyJustME

Jim, I think that bushing is there to keep the screw in parallel alignment with the nut so it doesn't bind.


----------



## BillWyko

Just put my new (actually over 10 years old but only used a couple times) 3hp General TS to the test, I cut the piece of 12/4 Hard Maple for the end of my bench. It was like balsa wood, thing didn't even flinch in the slightest. I recently got the TS, an Agazzani 20"BS and a bunch of other tools from my dear friend Paulo Marin, owner of Glaser turning tools. He needed room in the garage so he gave me a smoking deal on a bunch of tools. God bless this man, he's a great person.


----------



## Boatman53

Onlyjustme…. I understand the bushing in the leg, I was referring to the chop and if there was anything for holding the handle and chop as one. So the chop open with the screw. It's not necessary but it sure is nice. 
Jim


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice Yuri!


----------



## LeChuck

Nice quick drawing, and very interesting to see these vise builds…

Nothing too pestacular on my end, not even good photos, but I did end up putting a shelf on my workbench.

I originally wanted to copy Mauricio and his beaded boards, mostly as a reason to use my Stanley #45, but in the end, I'm just not too big about the bead as a design, and I wanted to be done faster with this. I ended up putting chamfers with the #5 plane instead.

I used some shorts of alder that I had, and hand planed them all, so they all have a slightly different thickness but it's relatively hidden by the chamfers. If I had a jointer I would have used that for these shelf boards, but I don't at the moment, and since I didn't really go out of my way to make them totally flat, I didn't use the thicknesser either, so I guess the galoot index is decent. I also left them unattached, but it seems to fit snugly. I have about an 1/8 of extra width and if it jiggles then I'm planning on just putting a couple wedges, but I don't think it will be a problem. Curious to see if it will expand during the monsoon season.

And I put some natural Watco on them.

Now will be moving on to tool storage!


----------



## Airframer

OK, someone has to explain this "Galoot Index" thing to me lol. I think I have an idea of what it means but not really sure.

Looks great David!


----------



## OnlyJustME

Sorry Jim. Misread your post and thought you were talking about the bushing labeled in the diagram. Darn distracting toddler. thats my story and i'm sticking to it.


----------



## shampeon

The "Galoot Index" is the degree to which you're using hand tools over power tools. E.g., using an axe to fell the tree, a hand saw to slab it, hand planes and saws to dimension the rough boards, etc. would be extremely high on the galoot index. The more labor saving devices you use, the lower on the Galoot Index.


----------



## yuridichesky

Guys, thank you!

David, nice shelf, looks very rich!

Jim, nothing hides from your eye  You're right, you can't be sure from my drawing how chop opens. Here's yet another one:










This little flange located in chop's recess will push the cover plate and so will open the chop when wheel turns counterclockwise. I will rivet it to the screw/pipe when all the dimensions (chop thickness, etc.) will be defined.

All the pieces of the set but the cover plate (should of posted it in the first place):


----------



## Boatman53

That will so it Yuri. Nice job on the whole project.
Jim


----------



## donwilwol

Galoot index


----------



## mochoa

Sweet lookin vises Yuri and Air Framer.

David the shelf looks good and I like the chamfers. I need to work with Alder one of these days.


----------



## Airframer

Thanks Don. I'll have to start adding up points now lol.

Yesterdays work… Dog Strip gluing up to the top. The last 2 boards will be added either today or early next week. The top is alllllllmoooooost done now. And Mauricio… that No 6 is a dream to work with!


----------



## yuridichesky

Jim, thanks again, we both know that there's jewel travelling long way to complete my vise.

Mauricio, you set very high standards for workbench build, we just have to catch up.

Airframer, if there's a dog strip, then there must be dog holes, right? Where did you hide them?


----------



## Airframer

Yuri - I'm going to lay them out and drill them with an auger bit once the top has had it's ends trimmed square.


----------



## yuridichesky

I see, I initially thought you were going to make square dogs/dog holes. I'm with round dogs too.


----------



## BillWyko

A question for those of you gluing up your tops, do any of you start your glue up against a caul? I used a 2×2 square piece of box tubing. Is that just overkill?


----------



## Iguana

*AirFramer*: is that copper for your linear slide? You're not worried about deformation from the wracking forces?


----------



## Airframer

Not really. I am attaching a 1" thick oak bed to it. That plus all the joints doubling the thickness of the walls and the steel rods running through it it is solid as a tank and the brass bearings make it run smooth as butter.


----------



## Airframer

Just another update teaser shot. All that is left to do is trim up the ends and glue up the skirt. I do need to remove that last line of squeeze out but that will have to wait a couple days. Had some minor surgery done this morning and I am under strict orders not to "tinker in the garage" for a few days lol.


----------



## yuridichesky

Airframer, what a nice touch with contrast color! Come back to WW soon, but not sooner than completely recovered. Be well!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Yuri that is a great looking vise.

David nice work on the shelf. It really looks good.

Outstanding Airframer, you are making quick work of it.


----------



## mochoa

Looking good AirFramer. Have you been able to give he #6 a spin?


----------



## Airframer

I have put the #6 to work already and let me just say it is a dream to use! I have had to re-think how I have been sharpening my other irons because of it lol.


----------



## mochoa

AF, glad to hear it. I'm putting together a blog on my sharpening process. I'm no expert but maybe it helps others that know less than me and I like a good sharpening discussion.


----------



## Airframer

Sounds great. I am definitely looking forward to reading that. Right now I am getting a scary sharp station set up but would eventually like to transition to some Japanese water stones when funds allow. Either of those will be much better than my current oil stones.


----------



## mochoa

Scarry sharp can work pretty well especially the 3M film. Its just a pain to change the paper and I never end up doing it.


----------



## BillWyko

Well, here's the first condor tail roughed in. I'll still be gluing it up & tidying up the joints a bit. This one faces the back side so I hope they just get better.


----------



## AnthonyReed

^Resplendent!! Wow, that is gorgeous wood.


----------



## mochoa

Nice!


----------



## RGtools

It reminds me of Frank Klaus's drool-worth bench. He said he used defect wood and saved the good stuff for projects…I always thought "what do the projects look like then?"


----------



## BillWyko

I figure I'll have to look at this bench every day for the rest of my life, might as well make it easy on the eyes.


----------



## BillWyko

When I get back to work I'll post a pic of the whole board. It's a beauty.


----------



## BillWyko

This is a pic of the beginning of the fit. I mark the tails with a pencil. Then I drive the tails in about 1/4 inch. The tails will now leave a mark on the pins where i'm too tight. Using a chisel I shave the high spots down until I have a good fit. Then using a patternmakers router bit, I clean out the rest to the proper depth.


----------



## mochoa

Minister, that freaking genius. The best DT tip I've heard in a while.


----------



## OnlyJustME

So what kind of wood is that, HumidorMinister?


----------



## BillWyko

Glad I can be of service, the wood is Waterfall Bubinga. I started on the next set of tails today but I broke a bandsaw blade. New one being made and should be done tomorrow. I have a 20" Agazanni BS so no one has blades on the shelf. Good news is, there's a guy here in town that is making me a 163"x3/8"x6tpi for 15 bucks, cheap at twice the price.


----------



## WhoMe

"Minister, that freaking genius. The best DT tip I've heard in a while."

++++! on that.

Awesome tip on the condor tales. Hopefully I will remember this one when I get around to making my bench..


----------



## BillWyko

When you do your bench, don't forget me, I want to see pics. Once I get past the DT's mine should come together pretty quick. I've got 3 Veritas vices to install, I'll post a blog on the build of the bench & installation of the vises. I'll also do a review on the vises performance.


----------



## lysdexic

Mauricio and Mike-

If you need to reference this technique for condor tails you can find it in an article by Jameel Abraham in the August 2011 issue of Popular Woodworking.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Thanks for the pictures Humidor; beautiful stick of wood.

Thank ya Scott.


----------



## BillWyko

Jameel has been an inspiration in many of my areas of woodwork. I met him in Illinois at a symposium a few years back, he's a wonderful and incredibly talented man. You should see his Oud's, truly inspiring.


----------



## LeChuck

Love those condor tails with that awesome wood!


----------



## BillWyko

David, come by the shop, it's here. 4742 E. Speedway.


----------



## terryR

Darnit…somehow one of my 10 thumbs hit the Unwatch button on this thread, and I didn't notice till today…

Lots of nice stuff the past week! Love the condor tails in Bubinga! wow!

Not much progress on my bench this week…I've been making those instant gratification projects like wooden spoons and knobs on the lathe.

But I did manage to make this little wheel assembly as a mock up for my leg vise. I turned walnut to the same size as poly wheels I've ordered, then used a chunk of maple from a pallet to form the housing.









Yeah, it's ugly. Just a prototype, so now I can size the real ones from red oak with some clue as to the sizing. Plus, I'll orient the grain properly and add some shape for a nicer finished assembly…


----------



## Dakkar

I'm watching this show "Flea Market Flip" on HGTV. The "designers" picked up this fine old workbench with a wood thread vise and their turning it into (sigh) a home bar.


----------



## BillWyko

Maybe we should write on the bottom of our benches that they are only to be used as benches and not bars or flower pots and they are never to be painted. Makes me sick when I see someone destroy something like that.

The Gamble house was made a historical site when a lady that was considering buying it suggested it would look nice painted white. She should have been tared & feathered.


----------



## Sylvain

"She should have been tared & feathered."

It seems it is a common disease :
http://betterdecoratingbible.com/2011/09/11/amazing-antique-transformations-before-and-after/


----------



## Airframer

So…. all she did was cover the nice looking hardwoods with a cheap layer of latex paint and it's called style? We have officially landed in hell in a hand basket as a society smh…


----------



## BrandonW

We should all comment on that blog!


----------



## JayT

Someone needs to educate her what "properly refinished" means. All she is doing is poorly covering up.


----------



## yuridichesky

Somebody make me unseen this…


----------



## BillWyko

My comment is there now. Where's the roofing tar?


----------



## mochoa

Way to go Humidor, not only does she cover up some nice wood, brass on white paint looks like shiit!


----------



## BrandonW

I posted a comment a few hours ago, but it's still awaiting moderation. I wonder if it will get through.


----------



## BillWyko

If my new bench is ever painted, I'll come back from the dead and ******************** in their cheerios as long as they live. LOL


----------



## donwilwol

I can't keep up with this thread, and I'm not building a bench. But maybe thats why.

Only Smitty could pull off a painted bench.

Terry, I think that wheel looks great.

If you follow the english woodworker he made some metal pins for the leg vice. I'm actually thinking of doing something similar. I think its a good Idea. I think it would work smoother.


----------



## shipwright

Someone needs to educate her what "properly refinished" means.

She could also use a bit of direction on what "antique" means.


----------



## lysdexic

I had to share my reaction to her fine work….

"Oh god! You painted those beautiful hardwoods latex white? It makes me want to vomit in my throat. What you have done is ******************** in mother nature's mouth."

edit: I don't expect my comments to last very long.


----------



## RGtools

^Your thoughts on a painted tool-chest?

(I thought about the same thing you did when I clicked the link)


----------



## shampeon

I should probably point out that Suzy Q says at the top that she just found these before/after pictures. She didn't paint those pieces herself, though she seems to believe that they look better with white paint, which is kind of sad.


----------



## lysdexic

Shampeon, fine. I hope she forwards my comments to whomever painted the campaign desk.


----------



## lysdexic

I apologize for my graphic language but i was a bit dis-inhibited at the time.

Ryan - I have no problem with painted wood at all. Especially, if painting is part of the original design and wood is chosen for that purpose.


----------



## BillWyko

Back on topic, tracked my Veritas vises & they will be tomorrow. Of course I have a full week of work scheduled so I'll have to get a few after hours in this week. This is where you really have to be disciplined and not cut corners. Gotta do those condor tails. 2-1/2 tails to go.


----------



## GMatheson

Just another update on my bench. Got the back half of the top installed.










Now I guess I need to flatten the top. Should be fun since the front piece is 3/8" thicker than the back. My supply of free wood was getting small and all I had left in the needed length was twisted so I couldn't get the same 3-1/4" thickness as the front piece.


----------



## mochoa

Looks really nice Gmat, I like the beefiness, the wagon vise, the shelf, its all good!

Any way to shim up the back half to be level with the front half? It doesn't matter if the bottoms of the slabs are not coplanar. Also I don't think the discrepancy is noticeable. If it does bug you can add end caps to the back half to disguise the difference.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Looking good Gmath.


----------



## yuridichesky

Gmath, great progress! And the wheels for the parallel guide are just perfect match with the legs-unbreakable!


----------



## BrandonW

Finally, a bench being put to good use:










Source.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Uhhggg! BC hardware?

Al sent you a picture from Scott's house?


----------



## mochoa

That hast to be a joke.


----------



## lysdexic

Nope, no joke. You can read about on the BenchCrafted blog. Some active military dude just built that bench out of *mahogany* and then put a TV on it. I couldn't tell if it was a spoof or not.

edit: personally, if he is going to just use it as a TV stand I'd paint it white.


----------



## BTimmons

I have sooo many questions for that guy.


----------



## BrandonW

You do have to admit-it looks pretty nice next to that lamp!


----------



## shampeon

Just spitballin', but I think he should make a Moxon vise out of ancient kauri to hold the flatscreen.


----------



## Dakkar

That's it. Any workbench I make in the future is going to be so #@!& ugly nobody will ever have the slightest desire to use it as living room furniture. Of course, that might well have been the case anyway.


----------



## lysdexic

That is the only way this makes sense. I guess it is just difficult for me wrap my head around the fact that he actually built the bench with no intention to use it…for woodworking. There is mention of an intention to use it.

Baffling.

Mohagany!?


----------



## BrandonW

Mohagany!?

Amateur, really. I would have preferred something nicer like rosewood or ebony.


----------



## lysdexic

:^)


----------



## BillWyko

He probably throws a sheet of plywood on some horses to work in the shop. Let me guess, he has a tablesaw as an end table and a spindle sander for a lazy Suzanne.
Someone will break into his house & steal the bench & leave the TV. LOL

Can someone post that pic to the link that has the painted furniture? Tell them that painting that furniture is like someone using this beautiful woodworking bench for a TV stand.


----------



## BillWyko

Of course my vises came in today and I have no time to work on the bench. I have to say though, the Veritas vises are worth every penny they sell for, these things are works of art. The mechanics, the attention to detail and the overall design are impeccable. While I haven't put them to use yet, I'm pretty confident they will work as well as they look. I plan on a full blog of the build of the bench and a review of all 3 vises when I'm done. More to come.


----------



## BrandonW

Nice, HM. What vises did you settle on?


----------



## BillWyko

I got the twin screw for the end, the bench front quick release for the front left and the tail quick release for the left rear. Here are pics of 2 of the 3 vises. The twin screw comes disassembled so it's a cardboard box for now.


----------



## BrandonW

I have a standard "large front vise" from LV, but those quick release vises are night-and-day nicer than my vise! I bet you're having fun just staring at those things.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'll never get tired of checking out everybody's benches. 
First furniture build on my new roubo. Biggest surprise has been how handy the leg vise and deadman have been for large panels. The 8' length is nice as well. -Red


----------



## BillWyko

I really struggled on weather or not to do a leg vise. That bench you have there is gorgeous, great to see it in action (and not under a TV) LOL

I'm still at work today so I can't even stare at my vices right now darn it. I want to be home finishing my condor tails so I can put this project together.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks man. Ironically, that is the back to a tv stand in my leg vise…lol.
I can't wait to see those veritas vises installed on yours as well. I didn't get to fancy with my end vise. Just used the vise off my old bench. Use it like this. Like it so far.


----------



## lysdexic

BRKH - are you working on another A&C side board there?


----------



## BillWyko

One more done, 2 more to go. Worked a 12 hr day and still couldn't put it down. 1:00AM now, time to call it a night.


----------



## pastahill

Look at this over engeneered workbench. The video is in german. They used almost all of the high priced hardware you can get. It´s from the german woodworking magazin "Holzwerken".

P.S. Look at all that festool systainer in the backshelf.


----------



## Tugboater78

Whoa.. i would get so confused..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

lysdexic, I'm on to a couple of A&C tv stands with a very similar design. They're for the same client/friends. After the sideboard, they saw the tv stand in my house and said, "We'll take two of those. One for upstairs and one for down." Should look like this when I'm done. I mean, it's no mahogany roubo, but it has some nice dvd drawers;-)


----------



## mochoa

HM that's some sweet looking iron. And your DT are looking amazing.

Red love the action shots of the bench. I think face vises on the end look pretty cool. And honestly they are probably the most functional thing you can put there. Nothing gets adjusted in and out as much as the end vise. Oh and that TV stand is top notch man, great work.

Cool video Pasta, is Festool cheaper over there or is it still crazy expensive like it is here?

Here are my workbench action shots from last night. 









So far nothing has tested the leg vises grip like shaving sticks with the drawknife. There is absolutely no give with this thing. 









Working on a little Welsh'ish stick chairs for the kids.


----------



## AnthonyReed

You have a fantastic bench *BigRed*. Beautiful work on the stand also. In addition to the craftsmanship, your attention to grain selection is superb.

*Humidor* - Those tails are so tantalizing, can't wait to see more of that bench.

*Mauricio* - There is a whole lot of sexy going on there. Looking forward to seeing the finish product. What is the log next to your sawbench used for?


----------



## mochoa

Tony that is my shop log! I found it in the woods behind the house. It functions as a stool and sometimes as a chopping block.


----------



## chrisstef

"Its looo-oog, its loo-oog, its big its heavy its wood. Its loo-oog, its loo-oog, its better than bad its good!"


----------



## merrill77

Hi all! I've been catching up on this thread over the past few weeks…a few pages a day. You guys have built some beautiful benches! Personally, I think the TV stand is a perfect use for that bench…I could never use something that nice as a workbench - I'd be afraid to do any real work on it!

I mostly hang out over at NCWW, but have read many posts here that were referenced from there. Then I came across this thread and had to join. I built my bench about the same time this thread was really getting going. I'm currently working on getting some pics up onto my site. But for now, I'll just say that it is 24×72 and made mostly from red oak, because I had a lot leftover from previous projects. The working surface is done and it's fully usable, but I still have to build a tool cabinet to go under it.

Thanks again for all the drool-worthy pics!


----------



## lysdexic

Welcome Chris. BrandonW and I were just in your neck of the woods at the Woodwrights school.


----------



## mochoa

Welcome Chris!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mauricio- Jeepers!! That drawknife looks like its coming right at my head…lol. Reminds me, still need to learn to sharpen mine.


----------



## mochoa

lol. Big Red here is a tip to get you started. Here is my creative use for a saw vise…


----------



## Mosquito

lol I like it Mauricio


----------



## bondogaposis

Yeah, that's pretty crazy. I'm sure the holdfasts and dogs will come in handy to hold a DVD case or two. Why use BC hardware on a tv stand?


----------



## chrisstef

Red - the easiest way i found to sharpen a drawknife was to hold one handle in my left hand and push the other handle against my chest, kinda like flexing the biceps for the ladies. From there i used a stone to run back and forth on the bevel until she was good n sharp.


----------



## terryR

HM, you are infected badly! Chopping condor tails after a 12 hour work day!  They look awesome…can't wait for more…

Mauricio, love your bench shots…ummm…no, I just love your bench!  What are all those dowels for?


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Terry, and I know my picture taking skills suck. I need some tips on photo composition from Smitty.

I'm using what I learned on my saw bench to making a couple of these for the kids. Just not so artsy, more of like a rustic Welsh Stick chair. 









The back support will also be hand shaved dowels morticed into the seat.

More like one of these but I hope to land somewhere in the middle of the two examples on the rustic scale.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Edit - I'm too slow.


----------



## terryR

Ahhh…a chair! That all I could think of, Maur! 

Can't wait to see the finished chair…we NEED chairs badly, and since I have a lathe…looks like a challenging build!


----------



## mochoa

I have a lathe to but I'm doing it the hard way!

I started roughing them out with the drawknife with the intention of finishing then on the lathe. But then I say, man I'm so close I might as well finish them off with the Jack plane.

I also like the beveled texture it adds. That and I'm getting a nice workout while taking the new bench through its paces. ;-)

It not challenging at all though Terry, this is an easy project. Just what I need after the marathon bench project.


----------



## terryR

Mauricio, you are NOT doing it the hard way…you are doing it the correct way! The lathe is just faster…but subjects your wrists to tons of vibration and stress. Bad for wrists and shoulders and back.

Now, a sharp drawknife on the other hand…no dust to inhale, no vibrations, just a clean, healthy workout while woodworking. And far less danger of injury!

Huh? Chairs an easy project? I'll follow along…


----------



## mochoa

Good points Terry.

These chairs are just sticks inserted into holes in a pine board. I eyeballed the angles for my saw bench and came pretty close but I think I'm going to make a jig for the drill press for these. Kind of like what Schwarz did on his Moravian stool if you saw that PW article.


----------



## OnlyJustME

You just need a couple bevels set to the angle you want to guide your brace and bit Mauricio. That's how Roy does it.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah, thats what I did on this guy here. The angles came out pretty close. 









But not perfect. Good enough for a saw bench though.


----------



## OnlyJustME

so what you're saying is you need more practice? lol 
plus it adds to the handmade rustic look.


----------



## mochoa

;-)


----------



## RGtools

I still love that you did that by machete.

+1 on the t-bevel trick, it works wonders.


----------



## AnthonyReed

+1 to machete hewn sawbenches being the dog's bollocks.


----------



## chrisstef

So you're saying youve seen him Tony?


----------



## AnthonyReed

^ Google utilizing level = wizard


----------



## Sylvain

Interesting lateral dog in the end vise at about 1'25 in the German video.
Used for edge planing


----------



## Brit

Check this out: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FRENCH-VINTAGE-RUSTIC-CARPENTERS-SOLID-OAK-WORK-BENCH-TABLE-KITCHEN-ISLAND-/321090021875?pt=UK_Collectable_ToolsHasdware_RL&hash=item4ac274e9f3


----------



## lysdexic

Andy, what are you waiting for? Make it yours.


----------



## JayT

Quick, before someone turns it into a TV stand or kitchen island. May the woodworking gods smite the seller for even putting that in the description.


----------



## BrandonW

Please buy this, Andy!


----------



## OnlyJustME

I'm sure if y'all sent him the 295 pounds he would be happy to buy it.
That is one super long hold down.


----------



## Iguana

Pretty decent price, to boot. Wonder what shipping costs to this continent would be?


----------



## mochoa

295 Pounds! Sounds like a good deal to me Andy. Oak makes a nice bench.

Where is Bucks? Is that far from you?


----------



## OnlyJustME

295 pounds is 450 us dollars.


----------



## mochoa

Pocket change for Andy…


----------



## Brit

Guys - it does sound like a good deal, but not for me I'm afraid.

1) It is for abnormal righthanded people )
2) I have nowhere to put it yet.
3) I want to make one like ScottyB.

With a bit of work though, it would make a nice cheap bench for someone.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, man, that bench is nice. Solid top that's in great shape, at least by the looks of the pics. Sorry it's not finding a home with Andy…


----------



## Sylvain

My previous commet was about the video pointed to by PastaHill in his comment #3440.

Don't feel obliged to react, but as I never saw a bench dog placed like this in an end vise, I am surprised nobody commented. (not on my comment but about the lateral dog in the vise)
it is between 1 min 22s and 1min 37s.

here


----------



## Mosquito

Oh nice Sylvain. I got side tracked when I started watching it originally since I was at work, so I didn't even notice that part. That's an interesting idea


----------



## wswartzwel

New here. I am building my workbench with sliding drawers that are accessible from either side, and plan to use it for an outfeed table as well.










Still in progress.


----------



## amite

Untried vise idea.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks for posting that idea here, amite.

I think if the screw used 2 different locations (one further down on the leg, and one further over on the apron) you could have more clamping capacity in both orientations. You'd be able to put the parallel guide to the left, and use the vise on the right side instead. I still like the concept, though


----------



## carguy460

Question for the esteemed expert panel here - though I will be building a proper workbench soon, I would like to possibly put some dogs in my current bench, but I'm not sure if it will work. My current benchtop is only 1 sheet of 3/4" plywood…would dogs even work in a top that thin?


----------



## Mosquito

would they work? probably, would they work well? maybe. I use a workmate, which uses dogs, of sorts…

If nothing else, you could always glue blocks under the top where you want to put the dog holes (assuming you have access)


----------



## terryR

Jason, LV claims their Bench Pups will hold in a top 'up to 2" thick'. Anyway you can throw another sheet of 3/4" ply on top of the existing top?

Also, how about a tapered wooden plug that fits your hole? Hammer it in…hammer it out. Custom lengths. Just a thought…


----------



## BrandonW

I'm sure they could work, Jason-but is it possible to glue another 3/4" strip underneath where you want the dogholes so that it is 1 1/2" thick at that spot?


----------



## BrandonW

Also, if you get bench dogs like these ones by Kreg, they'd definitely stay in place even in a 3/4" bench:

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/kreg-bench-dogs-pack-of-4.aspx


----------



## carguy460

I don't know why I didn't think to just add more ply…I could slap another sheet on top, it would certainly make it more solid, but its already WAY too high for hand work, I'd hate to add even more height…but a "dog strip" underneath might be a good option.

I could do those dogs like you suggested Brandon…I dunno, I'm just getting more and more frustrated trying to hold my work on this wannabe bench…thanks for the help, guys!


----------



## chrisstef

Join the club Jason, im getting sick of my bench too. Its square, the quick release vice is in the wrong spot, and i cant clamp nothin to the top. I get by, barely, but frastrating none the less.

Would a 5" bench top be too thick???


----------



## BrandonW

A 5" thick top would be pretty badass. The only issues that I could think of would attaching vises and getting your holdfasts to work, both of which may not even be issues. What type of wood are you thinking? SY Pine?


----------



## terryR

Hey, Jason, cut an inch or so off the legs. 

Brandon, thanks for the link on the Kreg dogs! $2 each…gonna splurge and get a handful of those!


----------



## AnthonyReed

"Would a 5" bench top be too thick???" - You know you are a d1ck for being in a situation that allows that concern, right?


----------



## chrisstef

You got it Brandon. We just demo'd the entire roof structure off a building and theres a stack of 2×10's and 6×6's in the warehouse that were salvaged. I havent cut into any of the 6×6's yet to find out if theyre white or souther yellow pine but ill be taking some home this weekend for said investiagtion.

Tony - well aware . Apparently being a d!ck is something im actually pretty good at lately.


----------



## mochoa

Have you guys tired the old Paul Sellers bar clamp in the vise trick for surface planing. 
http://paulsellers.com/2013/03/the-paul-sellers-vise-clamp-system-or/

You first have to infill the clamp with wood so it can be clamped.


----------



## chrisstef

Well hot flocking diggity Mauricio thats a good idea!!! Even i can do that. I even have some of those worthless aluminum flexible clamps.


----------



## RGtools

I would be the one to voice that a 5" thick top is too thick. 4.5 would be my max. I just think you get to a point of diminished returns when it comes to rigidity and longevity of the bench. Think about how much work it will be to install a tail or a wagon vise in a top that thick.

Also think about the joinery from the base to the top, and drilling the dog holes. Yellow pine is gummy, even when the resin has set…that is a lot of work.

I also second what Brandon said about vises and hold-fasts.

That being said 6×6 anything would makes for some killer components for the base of any bench you build….including one with a 6" top.


----------



## waho6o9

Re purposed 20' header for the legs and base with left over pine
from a bed frame for a cross brace and a free top off of Craiglist
that's about 25" wide x 75" long x 3.5" thick.

Stout as heck and I can barely move it. It's perfect.

Just installed a Wilton vise with a dog and can now do some planning.

Yeah Buddy.









I'm not sure if I'd want a 5" thick top Stef, major hassle
to drill through.


----------



## chrisstef

I can always plane / band saw them down to a respectable 4 - 4 1/2" without a problem. I was just thinking that with my limited shop time the less stock prep the better. Id certainly love to hang out all day and prep but it just aint in the cards at this time in my life.

For the base, without a doubt theyll be perfect. Hell, they held up an entire roof for almost 60 years.

Ive been pondering a new bench for almsot a year and i just need to sack up and do it, even if it takes me another year to build it. Some one call me a pu$$y. Thats all it usually takes to make me do somethin stupid.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Awesome Waho!!


----------



## Mosquito

You can always mortise for vises, and drill holes on the bottom side for the holdfasts if those are your only concerns with the 5" thick top.

I'd be more worried about moving it with out recruiting the neighborhood lol

Though with a 5" top, you could just mortise a tool well into it… that would be cool


----------



## chrisstef

BTW - i really like your style wahoo. All reclaimed and repurposed. Man after my own heart.


----------



## waho6o9

Thanks for the comments, I appreciate them.


----------



## mochoa

Glad to help Stef, it's a good thing I put it out there just in case. I thought everyone had seen that trick by now.

Wahoo that bench is nice! Super beefy. Congrats on the free top, nice score.

Stef, I'm with you on avoiding as much stock prep as possible. Man in your line of work I'd imagine you could find some perfect benchmarking material. Hold out for some beefy beams for the top. A top made of two beams would be sweet and look like a lot of antique benches I've seen.

+1 on Mos' suggestion. I dugout canoe style tool well would be sweet.


----------



## chrisstef

double post.

Indeed i am fortuned with a lot of materials coming my way being a demo contractor but ive always got to keep it in perspective ya know. Speed wins in this business and if i had the guys save everything i thought was worth a buck, there would be mountains of stuff around here. The old beams are usually riddled with cut nails and huge mortises. Ive got a SYP beam at the house that was 10' long and i got maybe 4' of usable timber out of it. Sometimes its just too much work.

Dug out tool well huh …. veeerrryyy interesting. Maybe a removable panel sitting on some rebates.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Stef i can't believe with all the roof demos you been doing you don't have a solid built bench yet. You're such a #^!^#. 
There ya go buddy. now you have to go and do it. I would just rip them 6xs in half and have some book matched bench tops. You'd still have a solid top and it'd be purdy. Stock would go further too. You might not be limited in that but why waste it when you can use it for other things like a solar kiln or backyard lumber storage roof.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Nice massive bench Waho. I'm likin that offset wilton vice too.


----------



## chrisstef

lol thanks Matt … maybe once a week you could send me a PM reminding me how soft i am for additional motivation 

Would it be foolish to not have a plan together and just start glueing up a top or am i asking for problems down the road?


----------



## Mosquito

wouldn't say "foolish" but it may make things more difficult down the road. Say, for example, you decided you wanted to have a wagon vise. It would have been a lot easier to include that in the top glue-up, or if you wanted square dogs instead of planning on round, it'd be easier again to include that in glue-up. But otherwise, I'd say have at it. My design was pretty well laid out when I started, and I still ended up just going and figuring it out "once I get that far"


----------



## chrisstef

I could leave the width one board short because i think id like a wagon vice.

I tend to dive right into things without any plans, get stuck, set it aside for 2 months, get back at it, spit and swear because im an idiot and didnt plan anything, hack it to pieces to make it work, and then try and hide all my faults.

Im also really sh!tty at drawing up plans.

I need to get back to the books and read up on benches again so i can try and avoid my faults.


----------



## BrandonW

Decide what style of bench you like, Stef. Roubo, English, Scandanavian, Moravian, etc. Then you can figure out plans and delve right into it.


----------



## OnlyJustME

My problem is the figuring out what bench i would want. I've never used one other than a flat top with the cheap woodworking vice on the side.


----------



## mochoa

Stef did you say could make the whole thing out of 6×6's? If so I would let the material dictate the bench and build a big aas Roubo. You could make your whole bench out of 12 pieces; 4 for the top, 4 pieces for he legs and 4 for the stretchers. That would require minimal stock prep and glue ups. You could always add a quick release vise on the end and not bother with a wagon vise.

That's kind of what I did. I couldnt decide what kind of bench I wanted so I let the materials on hand dictate. Make the decision much easier.


----------



## waho6o9

+1 for Mauricio

Make a Stef bench Stef!

Done

Add the vises as you want them, I didn't score the Wilton 
until last Sunday.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Class it up and go book matched on the top. lol


----------



## chrisstef

Yea Maur - the whole shootin match could be done with 6×6's, there's only around 50 out back (it was a big roof)

I really like the french style bench (so far) with a leg vice and considering ive got a quick release all ready i may use that for the end vice but like you said i can let the materials on hand make the decision. That may be the route ill go, forego the french style, rock the roubo, sack it up and get ta work.

Thats it, im loading up some timbers, this afternoon.


----------



## waho6o9

Yeah buddy


----------



## chrisstef

Id love to Matt - but handling 7'ers on the bandsaw might be a tricky operation lol. Id have to position it juuust right to allow for 14' in my shop. Im leaning towards a quick n dirty but fully functional bench. As much as i admire benches like Scotty's and Mauricio's, time aint on my side. That and im pretty impatient lol.


----------



## mochoa

Its calling you man, its calling you.


----------



## mochoa

You dont even have to do the fancy double tenon. Schwarz has a sketchup plan out there with single tenon legs. I cant find the link now but I downloaded the sketchup plans a while back. I can email you the file.

Since both the legs and the top pieces are 6" pieces he mortises the top piece (through mortise) before the glue up so its much easier to make.


----------



## chrisstef

"I hear you knocking but ya cant come in" (in cheech and chong style)

Thats a sharp lookin bench and might be what im lookin for brother. Thanks for the post.

Man that makes a lot of sense too on the SU bench posted above. My carcass saw would certainly make those cuts. Little bit of chisel time mixed in. Stef likey. Your search fu is strong Maur.

I think i would eliminate about 10" of the overhang though. Ive been kicking around the idea of a bench 72" long.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

There's always my hybrid approach to those through dovetails/tenons as well;-)


----------



## chrisstef

Cutting the 45's on the tablesaw is an option but i may have to relocate the furnace to do so lol. I could circ saw them too. Options abound indeed there bigred.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Get it Stef!


----------



## mochoa

Oh thats right, Red had a really cool way of doing those DT tenons but that would involve two pieces of wood for each leg.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Legs on my bench are 3 laminated 8/4 chunks of walnut…doh. Not necessary to go that big though.


----------



## chrisstef

Thats beefy Red but with your 18' long top you needed the extra girth on the legs


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Lol…go for the roubo buddy. You'll love it. I use the leg vise and deadman way more than I thought I would. You can throw you old vise on the end like I did and save a little cash. 
If you want to cut back on the hours, just don't make the leg tenon go through the top. It's mostly for looks, and it eats up some hours.


----------



## chrisstef

Ive been convinced. Stef's makin a bench. I predict a 9 month duration. Stef's pregnant.

Rubs the belly. "Oohhh gonna be a scocca playa" - name that movie.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

One of those Sandler movies….

Upside to roubo….chics really dig it…









LOL she's creeping me out. Alright, railroad called. They always put a dent in my woodworking;-)


----------



## chrisstef

Well done Red - Billy Madison. Minus the smurf wig, she can kick it in my shop, jus sayin. Think the carpet matchs the drapes?


----------



## mochoa

Yeah that chick is creeping me out but then turning me on in some strange way.

Yeah Stef, you could total skip the through tenon. I did on my bench. It does look pretty cool but not necessary.


----------



## chrisstef

That horseshoe is upside down aint it. I thought placed with the open side up it would catch all the bad luck.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

After thinking about it, the single through tenon on the inside part of the leg(like drawing above) wouldn't add much time. You could hog it out prior to lamination. If your tablesaw is obstructed, just use a straight bit on a router. 
Now we're beating you over the head with choices….lol. I do it to myself all the time. I'm already planning another bench myself. A joinery bench to go against my back wall. The agony and the ecstasy. It never ends…;-)


----------



## BrandonW

Thru tenons on mine and it wasn't too bad. I also wanted a quick bench and built mine in about a couple of weeks worth of time. Granted, it's not as nice as Scott's (whose bench I've seen in person) and Mauricio's (whose bench I haven't seen in person yet), but also only took a fraction of the time to build.


----------



## chrisstef

I think id knock em out with a chisel and my carcass saw, fine tuning with the shoulder plane, unless i bumped into a 10 1/2, then id use that . Definately before glue up. I bet i could pump out one and hour with a little Lightnin Hopkins playin in the background.

My shop is directly below our living room and above that is the babys room. I typically only get down there once he's asleep so i try and be as quiet as i can. That and i like hand tools.

I also want to thank you guys for making my afternoon at work completely and utterly unproductive.

EDIT - B Dub - Just my style brother. Ive gotta figure out (fall back and read) on the sliding dead man and leg vice. Thats a must on my bench.


----------



## mochoa

Brandon, there you go, another great example. Its sad to say though, youve seen Scotts bench who lives in another state and you havent seen mine. We have to fix that. You should swing by after the Saturday guild meeting weekend after next. We can drink beer and rub on the bench. 

Thats what I'm saying Stef. a few extra kerfs with the hand saw and then chop out the waste with a chisel and mallet. That actually sounds like fun.


----------



## chrisstef

My thoughts exactly Maur. Kerf it up and whack away. Sounds like you and Brandons post guild meeting hang out


----------



## mochoa

Wacking the kerf Stef, thats what its all about.


----------



## DaddyZ

I don't know guys.. It looks like that bench is going to get banged pretty good !!!!


----------



## chrisstef

DaddyZ for the win. Thats one way to see if itll rack or not.


----------



## yuridichesky

Crisscross (some prototype?) detected on the pic. So THAT's how Benchcrafted built their financial success?...


----------



## mochoa

I dont know about you guys but I'd be like "dang baby dont be putting your shoes on the maple!". She's making the chop hit the concrete too.


----------



## chrisstef

^ lol. No Jimmy Choo's allowed in the shop. Its a pine Roubo baby not a Scotty B original.


----------



## BTimmons

Good heavens. If you all can't handle the blue hair, then get out of my way.


----------



## DaddyZ

BT^ It would look good on my bench anyday of the week…


----------



## BTimmons

Indeed. Were I not already wed, I would take her in a manly fashion.


----------



## lysdexic

Stef, don't be a vag. Through tenons. They're hoss. I wish that I possessed the scrotitude to attempt it when I built my bench.

Another thing, my bench is too pretty. Really. I couldn't help myself at this time but don't use it as a benchmark (pun intended).

So make those trough tenons before lamination. They do not have to be perfect and seamless. They just need to provide lateral stability to the top.

So quit flapping your labia and just start.


----------



## chrisstef

Scott - a print out, 36"x24", of your last post needs to adorn my shop wall much like "play like champion today" does leaving the notre dame locker room. I have not read a more inspirational diatribe to date. Friggin Lombardi worthy.

(I still think your bench added at least an inch)


----------



## ksSlim

Thru tenons work and look great, if you're never move again.
Experience says, make sure you can get the bench out of the door.

Sucks, when you have to almost destroy a bench to move.

My current shop doesn't have anything my heirs can't carry thru the door.


----------



## Iguana

So long as your heirs don't start carrying things out through the door before your time is up…


----------



## lysdexic

I know you liked to be talked dirty to Stef.

Seriously, why can't you make it so that the top slides over the tenons without permanent attachment. I know that the split Roubo has an upper stretcher, but my slabs just rest on the stub tenons and are cinched down with Spax screws. It is a one man job to remove the screws and lift the slabs off the under carriage.


----------



## BrandonW

Scott's inspirational poster:


----------



## waho6o9

LOL


----------



## BigRedKnothead

lol. Well done Brandon. Gluing the through tenons isn't necessary. Just dowel them. If you're ever gonna move, just drill out the dowels and take the top off.

I think my tagline applies;-)


----------



## carguy460

Wow…this place blew up last night! Stef, good to see you're going to quit flapping your labia and start building a bench. Once you get started, I'll start mine (yeah right).

Thanks for the dog advice guys…I talked to my dad about it and he pretty much told me the same thing everyone has been telling Stef - shut up and build a real bench…

Through tenons will be used on mine - I even practiced a little last night. Well, sorta…


----------



## terryR

Holy keyboard…a record number of posts in one day! 

Stef, I can make it easy on ya, buddy…I'm on my way with truck and trailer to pick up all those 6×6" timbers!


----------



## chrisstef

Scott - its been a while since i been talked dirty to so thanks for that buddy. Youve also coined a new term for me: Lab Flap.

BW - picture saved. I wonder if i can slip it into an order of blueprints and have it printed. Might throw the printer for a loop opening up that file lol. It needs to be on my shop wall.

Jason - I spy a mallet in the background there. An oak headed whacker. Tenon looks nice and tight man. Whatever you do, dont let me be your inspiration. Your sh!t will come out cock eyed, ugly, and 6 months later than planned. I will offer one tip though that i picked up from some guy call BHog who used to frequent around here:

Strike your lines for the edges of your mortise and using a chisel create a little kerf with a mallet tap definin the outer edges. Then, from the waste portion of the mortise, pare back towards your chisel kerf, maybe 1/8" deep. From there it doesnt matter what the inside of it really looks like because its hidden, but the face will have a nice defined edge to it and you will have a vertical reference for your chisel to chop downward.

KSslim: Ill probably leave them loose, at most id dowel or screw but at 24 - 26" wide the reclaimed beaute would fit through the shop door as well as the basement door. Good thinking because i know that my current bench would not fit through the door unless i greased it up like Al on a Friday night at WV family reunion.


----------



## chrisstef

Terry - Cmon up brother and dont forget that stuff you were giving your bandsaw blades! There's a good chunk of farm land around my area too …. how are you at growing apples?

Ive also decided that the chop for my leg vice will be reclaimed oak. Ive got a 18" wide chunk thats been at the bottom of my lumber rack for a few years and needs to be dealt with. It was your words Terry that lead me to this decision, "Build a Stef bench Stef" .... and thats what im gonna do brotha.

EDIT: Undue credit here ^ - It was Wahoo who said it … sorry Terry.


----------



## carguy460

Good tip Stef, that would have probably helped me out. I'm trying to make a marking gauge…

I'm sure your bench will be awesome, especially if you use big timbers! I've been dragging my feet waiting for someone to tear down a barn around here, but it seems that those timber framed beasts from the 1800's are still pretty darn solid and nobody wants to tear them down…darn!

The mallet you spy is my ugly, out of proportion whacker I made around christmas. Looks like hell, but works great! I'll be making a prettier one out of this wood I got from these two guys…


----------



## terryR

Growing apples? huh? No skills for that in me…but damn I could use some apple lumber! 
Wish we lived closer…


----------



## chrisstef

Hey, ya never know when a package might hit your door Terry 

Ill see what i can do, i know that they just trimmed up the orchards and after a tough winter there may have been some collateral damage.


----------



## RGtools

I just processed the last 60 posts in about 3 minutes…my mouth is simply agog.

Blue hair, and an epic quote…I love it here.


----------



## mochoa

Lol, Scott for the win.

Great poster Brandon! You know what might have been a better picture for that poster? The blue haird chick posing on the roubo with through tenons. That would add a little extra sting to it.


----------



## terryR

Hey that chick with the blue hair can dig her high heels into my pine bench any day!!! 

Stef, you really grow apples? wow. Too much work IMO. Applewood goes for over $30 a bf when I can find it. I say grow apple trees indoors hydroponically…and mill the lumber! I dunno what to do with the fruit…

Bench related…bought a small piece of red oak yesterday in town so I can get on with my stalled leg vise build…


----------



## chrisstef

Terry - nah i dont grow apples. I can barely grow fingernails as i was not adorned with a green thumb. There just happens to be a lot of orchards in my neck of the woods that grow apples. Ive got 2 good sized farm stands about 1/4 mile from the house and one of them is on an orchard. Also the country's oldest "operating" cider mill which is a really cool place. http://www.glasct.org/index.aspx?page=188

We typically buy all our flowers and plants from this place so as soon as they open back up ill look into some apple wood for ya. It will be in "tree" form but i should be able to slice it up on the bandsaw for ya into usable chunks if they have any.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Smells like home in here…

Stef there is no carpet to match the drapes, you are not in college anymore.

ScottyB ever eloquent in his word slinging.

Brandon i had forgotten how skilled you are with photoshop. Outstanding.

Jason that looks very nice; good and tight. You are well on your way with that gauge. Looking forward seeing the end result.

+1 Ryan.


----------



## chrisstef

Never know Tony, there could be a hallway runner in there. Not everyones got hardwood floors


----------



## AnthonyReed

Again dude …. it's not the 80's.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Whenever I chop a through mortise, I have a hard time not making it wider towards the bottom. But I just use it to my advantage. As Bhog said, keep the part you see nice and pretty. Then cut the tenon slightly over-sized, and plane it to a tapered piston fit. 
I did place a small wedge in two little gaps that I did have on my bench. But I felt a little silly doing it…it's a bench. Hard to get away from those furniture standards.

Btw, maybe I'll ask my wife if she can take me some special pics on my bench for my bday next week…lol.

Edit: blue carpet would freak me out. I would run;-)


----------



## donwilwol

I have always been more concerned with the quality of the carpet over than the color.


----------



## mochoa

Trying for a Smitty'esque workbench at rest pic.


----------



## chrisstef

You need a bigger bucket ^


----------



## AnthonyReed

Sexy Mauricio.

How is the chair coming along?


----------



## Mosquito

Ugh… I've stalled out again. Need to get it moving again…


----------



## chrisstef

To echo Scotty - Stop lab flappin Mos and get after it.


----------



## AnthonyReed

What happened Mos?


----------



## BrandonW

Nice Maur! Is that a candle you use to wax your planes and saws?


----------



## Mosquito

Time, mostly. Little bit of the handplane build, partially.

I'm not happy with the wagon block I made, so I'm going to have to redo that, probably. That's slowed me down because I got frustrated with it, and decided to just leave it for a bit. I need to make the final screw for the wagon and the garter plate for it as well. I need to get the side aprons bolted in place, which means I've got to figure out how I want to do it. I don't have anything for the leg vise, so I have to find a chunk of wood to use for that as well. Not wanting to drop too much cash all at once doesn't help any either.

I mostly cleaned up the shop area this past weekend, though, so now there's less stuff stacked all over it. Maybe I'll get some more work done on it this weekend. I've got a wooden computer case build I'm hoping to do sometime this summer, and I'd really like to have the bench done for that… goals, I guess.


----------



## mochoa

The chair parts have all been planed round. Used the #5 and the wooden plane Fore (worked better) taking big shavings to round out the blanks. Then used the spoke shave to ease the bevels.

• I also want to do some light sanding to ease the bevels somewhat
• Next I'll turn some round tenons on the lathe on all the parts
• Drill some holes in the pine seat. I'm trying to thing of the best way to do that. Probably on the drill press. 
• Carve out a contour on the seats
• Assemble - Wedge and glue.

A fun light project. A lot of draw knifing, planing, spoke shaving… Getting a workout and having some fun! I'm starting to like this chair making business.

Brandon, yes that's my shop candle for the plane soles!

Mos, get on it man, focus! That jointer plane is looking nice, but you need to get on with the bench build!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"There's nothing in the world so sad as talking to an LJ, who never knew his Bench was his for making."

*I'm playing my guitar in the background…


----------



## chrisstef

Ohh ill be making Red. Im bout to go digging through the pile for the choice timbers. There will be no sad clouds over Stef's shop much longer.

Cant wait to see the wifes face when i haul home 10 timbers tonight.

"what are you doing with those" 
"building a bench" 
"so ill see you sometime in the fall?" 
"hehe"


----------



## chrisstef

Ive recruited help for the bench build considering i know this suckers gonna be heavy.


----------



## chrisstef

Well, i dug through the stack of about 25 6×6's and i picked out 6 that will be in good shape for a bench top. Damn those suckers are heavy! Im still going to attempt to weasel, what must have been, the main ridge beams of the roof. They're a respectable 3.5" x 9" x 24'. All i need is one but the boss is building a new house in the woods and wants them for chicken coops and horse stalls. Im not giving up though. Maybe i can grease him up by building him something nice or convincing him that theyre extremely oversized for what he really needs. "cmon bro there's 5 more, all i need is one"

Actual dimension are 5 1/2×5 1/2×9'. Ill end up milling at least 1/2" off of each one to get down to 5×5's true and square. There are a ton that have spilt and checked over the years in the attic going from hot to cold over and over again which is kind of unfortunate but the nature of reclaimed wood. Wood type is still undetermined. Could be fir, could be SYP, im almost ruling white pine out due to the color and heft of these bad boys.

So tell me is 20" going to be wide enough or should i add another and go 25"?


----------



## mochoa

20" would work. I've heard The Schwarz say benches a little on the narrower side are OK but I personally would go for 24".

Also, those check could look pretty sweet filled with dark epoxy.


----------



## Mosquito

my bench top is only 10.5" wide, if it helps any lol


----------



## mochoa

Oh yeah, and the sketchup plan I sent you is 20" wide. Yeah slap one more 5×5" on there.

It just looks too narrow, something not right with the Feng Shui.


----------



## chrisstef

LOL Mos, good point, and you still churn out better work than i do.

I think id like to go as wide as i can while still be able to reach all the way across it. Ive got the space so i might as well use it. My current bench is 40" square.

Dont tell anyone guys, but tomorrow, when the boss aint here, im snatching up that 3.5" x 9". Ill cut it into 3 7' long sections and use that for the top giving me max width of 27". Then i only need 2 6"x6"'s for the legs and maybe one for the stretcher. There's still another 80' of that material there. He'll never know its gone, hell, im pretty sure he doesnt even know it there. Added bonus for being able to cut it with my circular saw in one pass too.

Thanks for being my sounding board fellas.


----------



## AnthonyReed

For what it is worth, Ryan once told me: "Dont make it too wide. 24 is plenty 23 would be better because you will find yourself sleeving 24 inch cabinets and drawers around it for carcase clean up…this is very helpful."


----------



## AnthonyReed

Is that a teardrop tattoo that your bench build helper is sporting?


----------



## mochoa

Sounds like a plan Stef!

This is what it looks like at 25" wide.


----------



## chrisstef

Ya know Tony, i think i read the same thing in Schwartz's book about basing your bench size on cabinets. 24" being ideal. I bet once i joint the boards ill lose just enough to bring me right around 8" a piece if i go with that wider stuff. These wider boards will make the through tenons a bit more difficult becasue now instead of starting at the edge they'll fall into the middle of a board. Not a huge deal but def something to consider. Apparently when you gain in one area you lose in others.

Yes Tony, definately a tear drop tatoo, shes gangster and got one under her belt. Ralph Macchio didnt stand a chance.


----------



## Brit

Nah, she's just ugly Tony.


----------



## BrandonW

I like a bench to be a bit wider than most--mine was 30". Then bench you're describing Stef sounds like it will be very beefy. Looking forward to seeing it take shape.

Andy speaks the truth.


----------



## chrisstef

Thank BW, its very much in its infancy right now but procuring materials will set me up nicely to work slowly at it when the time allows. I can stash most of the lumber on saw horses out of the way or in the garage which will be nice. Im actually pretty amped up for this build, its been a while since i have actually had a project solely for myself.


----------



## AnthonyReed

We need Shane to get in here so you will stop talking and start producing pictures of your build.


----------



## lysdexic

FWIW,

During the mystery mallet class with Roy we fashioned a through mortise in the mallet head. After lay out, you pare to the marking gauge lines from the waste side - just as Stef described above. Do this on both sides. Then excavate about a 1/4" deep or whatever depth to "contain" an auger bit. Drill half the depth out from top and bottom with a hand brace. Meet in the middle. Pare out the waste. This worked very well.


----------



## mochoa

Stef, how Galoot are you trying to go on this thing? I'd say if speed is important I would find a friend with a power jointer if you dont already have one. I think that will save you a ton of time.

I dont have a power jointer but I was dreaming about one when I was building my bench.


----------



## RGtools

I'd second what Tony said but I think that would make me a little self involved.

Stef, build the bench, build it now, and figure out the science later. I am serious. The sooner you have a solid bench the better. You are going to screw up in places no matter how hard you try, or how much reasearch you do. Just get it done, you will be better off. It will make everything else you do easier.

After you have worked on it for a while you can correct most of your "errors", or learn to work around them.


----------



## lysdexic

It just better be perfect.


----------



## Tugboater78

my workbench is in that pile somewhere









75% of that is 100+ yr old oak the rest is poplar

minimum length of those boards is 16 feet

one day…


----------



## chrisstef

Maur - luckily ive got a 6" delta/rockwell jointer so itll make fairly quick work out of things. Im not really looking to go all roy on this thing. I guess my end goal is a fully functional bench that i wont have to remake in 5 years. But enough with the jibba jabba im heading down to prep the shop for some milling action.

As always you guys are all the help a lab flappin giner like myself needs


----------



## OnlyJustME

Nice pile there tugboater.It will make a nice bench one day if you don't lose it to rot and bugs. You might want to restack it so the air can circulate around it and keep it dry.

I just salvaged some old 2×10 (actually measuring 2"x10")joists from an old home in DC. Guessing it's SYP but was hoping for some good old hardwood that some of the old homes have. the guy kept the 3" wide main beams i was hoping for when i saw them. Joists are pretty ragged looking but i'm hoping i have enough clean material to give me a bench top.

So we'll see who gets their bench built first. It's a Bench Off.


----------



## waho6o9

"Stef, build the bench, build it now, and figure out the science later. I am serious. The sooner you have a solid bench the better. You are going to screw up in places no matter how hard you try, or how much reasearch you do. Just get it done, you will be better off. It will make everything else you do easier."

Words of wisdom right there.

My tenons were off a little but I leveled the legs out and to each other and
the table turned out level. What a hoot.


----------



## chrisstef

And a fair challenge to boot Matt being that we both have younger kids. I dig it.


----------



## Tugboater78

Yeah the pile will be reatacked.. i tore down a house last year solo on a timeframe and didnt get chance to do anything but rough stack it before the weather turned, took poc today when i grabbed some of it for another project.. hopefully a shop to work in.. now that weather is decent i can reatack


----------



## OnlyJustME

It's on like Donkey Kong Stef.

cool Justin. i'd just hate to see all that nice wood waste away. I was down in NC at my wife's great grand fathers house a couple weeks ago and there was a nice little stack of old 2×12 (full dimension) material. Looked like oak, maybe chestnut. Couldn't tell with it being rough cut and all grayed from the weather. I thought ca-ching that's gonna be a nice bench top. Sadly when i went to go pick them up they were just shells of boards. Termites got to them even though they were up on cinder blocks.


----------



## chrisstef

Aint nuttin to it but ta do it bro. Lets get it on!


----------



## Mosquito

Fine…










I actually did make some progress tonight… I made the screw for the wagon vise.










Mostly. I still have to cut it to length, and bore the hole for the handle. But otherwise it's done.


----------



## ksSlim

Whoa! Mos you're the man.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Get it on brothas. I feel a little silly being so excited/happy for some people whom I've never met to build their benches. I guess that means I officially an LJ.

That being said, I've got joinery bench that only exists as a pretty picture in my over-sized red head. I've got to knock out a few commissions and a shed before I can even start it. Be forewarned, if I finish that joinery bench before you guys finish your benches, I may mock you…repeatedly…..lol

Nah, seriously though, my job is much more conducive to this addictive hobby than most, and I realize that.


----------



## Mosquito

lol I'm aiming to have mine done before my next wooden computer case build that I hope to do this summer. Really I've just got to drill for bolts and nuts for the end caps, make the leg vise, and drill dog and holdfast holes in the top and I'm ready to rock 'n' roll. Not sure how long it'll take me to make the leg vise though…

I also just updated my workbench blog that I realized I was about a month and a half behind on lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Holy Crapola.

Leave this forum for a few days and it explodes.

Stef, get busy, build the bench. And Scotty, be nice. 

Carry on!

Oh, and 24" rocks for a bench depth. 7' length would be awesome, too.


----------



## AnthonyReed

"During the mystery mallet class with Roy we fashioned a through mortise in the mallet head." - Without pictures of your mystery mallet you only went and had a beer with Brandon.

Right on Mos! Good to see you back at it.


----------



## Mosquito

+1 on Tony's call out of Scotty…

Thanks Tony. I'll have to see if I can get the end caps secured this weekend. I bought hardware today. Just need to do it now


----------



## chrisstef

Smitty - dont worry bout scotty. I actually requested that i been refered to as genetalia. It aeems thats tthe only sure fire way to get me to do anything. Even my wife will hook me up with "dont be a kitty" . Just wait until my new motivation poster from brandon hits the shop wall. Gonna find out what rush hour traffic and 9' timbers stickin out the back of the jeep looks like tonight.

Red - yup, youre official brother. Its really a great thing to have some push behind ya venturing into a build. It makes we want to forage on and get to the next step knowing theres some anticipation oother than your own.


----------



## Mosquito

Can't be any worse than when I got stuck behind a backhoe going right through downtown last week lol. That drive sucked. I was going 8 miles, and it took 45 minutes. I sat through 6 cycles of a stop light before I made it through 1 block at one point. At least tailgaters won't be as much of an issue lol


----------



## terryR

Wooden screw looks awesome, Mos, as usual! Very cool!

I've gotta get to my leg vise…after one more tote…


----------



## mochoa

Looking sweet Mos! Wont be long now!

Mos, if you strip a nut under the bench and it locks up on you let me know. I have a trick for that. Lol. Are you using stainless steel? I hear its good idea on oak.

Red, you working from home and sneaking a little shop time in?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Maur, my job on the railroad is mostly on call. You'd get a chuckle at the measures I take to hear my cell phone while running machinery….another argument for hand tools. Anyway, my work/off time comes in chunks. Example: I'll be gone for 48 hours (train ride, hotel, train ride back), then I'll be home for somewhere around 48 hours. Upside: good chunks of time at home when others are not. Downside: living on call gets old. I work a lot of nights, weekends and holidays. And the railroad seems to call at 2am more than 2pm;-)

All that to say, I realize my job allows me more shop time than most 9-to-5ers. That's how I built my bench in 6 weeks. Well that, and I'm a bit of a freak. It's not uncommon for me to work all night on a train, sleep 3-4 hours, then work in the shop til my kids get off the bus. It's probably gonna make an old man out of me, but I'm havin a good ol time.

So, got home late last night, and back at is this morning. I made a tiny upgrade to my bench. The wooden toy wheels I used for ends on my vise handles weren't cutting it. So I made some octagonal buggers from a walnut scrap. Fun little hand tool only project:


----------



## mochoa

Ah, makes sense. Pretty cool, I mean the woodworking part, not the late nights long hours part.

I like the knobs on the handle too. Nice touch.


----------



## Mosquito

Hmm… stainless. I am not… I've just got zinc plated. Didn't even think about that with Oak, though I should have.


----------



## BrandonW

Yeah, nice handles, Red!


----------



## root

I'm new to the blog and have read all the posts. I am building a split top Roubo and have seen a post some place that used some heavy duty levelers in the legs to be used on an uneven floor. Do any of you know of a good source for these levelers, which must be heavy duty enough to hold 3-400 pound bench. Thanks


----------



## BrandonW

Welcome root! How uneven are your floors? The floors in my garage are pretty uneven, but I just put my work bench on a couple of those anti-fatigue mats and that seems to absorb all the unevenness. I just have two of the cheap ones from Harbor Freight plus they are nice when you drop tools off the bench:

http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-anti-fatigue-foam-mat-set-94635.html

I can't recall seeing the levelers.


----------



## mochoa

I just clipped a coupon for those mats ($7.99)


----------



## BrandonW

See there are a few places where fine woodworking and Harbor Freight meet. Not many, but a few.


----------



## chrisstef

Root -Ive heard of someone using hockey pucks as levelers wth some hardware involved. Could have been on here somewhere, not sure, but when i read it i thought it was pretty slick.

In Stef news, the timbers are on the way to the house. Ill start scrubbing the dirt and grime and knocking off some of the twist tonight. Ive got my work cut out for me.

BW - they meet in aisle 2 .. next to the twist link belts, the dust collector, anti fatigue mats, and brass brushes.


----------



## mochoa

Damn now I want to make another workbench. I was thinking of making 6'-8' of base cabinets but now I'm thinking why not make one of these with drawers? 









It would replace the 2×4 bench against the wall that is just ugly. 









Just ideas at the moment. I need to make some furniture first.


----------



## mochoa

No vises though, just the bench.


----------



## BrandonW

I'm sure your wife will be happy to hear you're gonna make another workbench!


----------



## Sylvain

Mauricio in the first picture of your comment 3632 there seems to be a hole for a side dog in the end vise.


----------



## chrisstef

That would go over like a fart in a space suit around my house Brandon.


----------



## mochoa

Well I showed her and she thought it was a good idea. However when it comes down to actually giving me the freedom to get the work done, thats a different story. lol.

Nah she is good about giving me shop time while she watches her shows. I dont like watching a lot of TV. 
I got her to read that Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus book. Now she knows I need my cave time. lol. there's a tip for you guys, get your old ladies to read that book.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Lol Maur. I hear ya. We don't even have cable, just a roku and an antenna. My wifey is really good about my woodworking. We have a mutual agreement about our interests. I make sure she has time to run(she runs marathons) and she makes sure I have shop time. We fit our kids somewhere in there;-)

Also, sounds like we're both thinking about replacing our ugly secondary bench.


----------



## Mosquito

lol I do the same thing when my girlfriend starts watching "her shows"... immediately head for the "shop" if I can't ignore it sitting at my computer…


----------



## RGtools

I need to replace my ugly primary bench. I just have to wait two years for the maple to dry.

That's patience if you ask me.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mos- for me it's when the kindle comes out…I off to my little haven.

RG- two years will fly by before ya know it;-) I'm a wuss because I wouldn't even start a new bench til I had a new power jointer.


----------



## Mosquito

heh, I do the same often times when her kindle shows up as well…


----------



## killerKiteh

Mos,
How did you cut the threads? My curiosity got me.
I have spent way to much time trying to decide between thread box and tap, or my lathe.
If I build thread box & tap, I will be able to make extras if needed.

Paul


----------



## Mosquito

I bought a wood threading kit from highland woodworker, in 1 1/2" size.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/manualwoodthreader1-126tpi.aspx


----------



## chrisstef

Timbas are heah ..


----------



## mochoa

Wow


----------



## Mosquito

Sweet….


----------



## terryR

Looking good, Stef.
Looks heavy as $hit.


----------



## BrandonW

Stef, I'd just bolt those together with some threaded rods and call it a day! That's pretty sweet.


----------



## OnlyJustME

How long are they? They look real nice. Tight grain.


----------



## waho6o9

http://www.bealltool.com/products/threading/threader.php

Another source for making wood threads.


----------



## RGtools

Stef. I am very excited for you.


----------



## chrisstef

Heavy as ******************** is right Terry. Id bet 50 - 70 lbs each.

Ojm - Theyre currently 9' long. Ill be choppin em down to 6'ers. The grain is nice n tight on this piece. Ive got some picking to do on the others. Theres plenty of rock hard knots ill be trying to avoid on some of the others. I might have to pop em out. Some could be scary on the jointer.

BW - im thinkin about it thats for sure. Theyve got a lil twist to some of em that im gonna need to get out before i did though or could i just square up the outside 2 timbers and cinch er together?


----------



## chrisstef

RYan - i hope youve got as much patience as excitement lol.


----------



## Mosquito

bit of a double post from the Handplane thread, but I got the bolt in the wagon vise end installed tonight










I was genuinely shocked by how close I was to being dead center on the bolt hole when I drilled the hole up from the bottom… I squared out the bottom of it a little with a chisel, so the washer sits flat against the edge.










I've got a 4.5" bolt on this one, but then I realized… the only way I could use one of those for the other end is if I put it right between the front and back legs on the other end, but that puts it at just front of center, and I don't like that. I don't want that to be the furthest back support point if I'm going to have the tool well hanging off the back. I'm thinking I'll put 2 on the leg vise end. One just front of center, and a shorter one towards the back (same distance back as the other end).


----------



## mochoa

Nice! Much cleaner than the ones I made.

So can you test out the wagon vise yet?


----------



## Mosquito

heh, I kind of did, Mauricio. I don't have any dog holes drilled yet, but I clamped a "test" garter plate to it, and then clamped a batten on the other end, and clamped a piece of wood in the wagon that pushed against the one on the bench top. It wasn't easy to not hit some of the clamps, but it did work lol


----------



## AnthonyReed

The handle upgrade looks great Red.

Stef, you sexy devil, good show.

Nice job Mos.


----------



## Tugboater78

big reds schedule sounds kinda like mine, cept mines not as random, long stretches at home etc


----------



## chrisstef

Nice shot on the bolt end of things Mos especially for eyeballin it.


----------



## lysdexic

Stef's got wood. Heh, heh.


----------



## Sylvain

For those of you who have an excess of wooden screw (LOL) :

http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=288


----------



## Sylvain

To complement comment #3498 of Mauricio 2 days before :
http://paulsellers.com/2011/11/4473/


----------



## Boatman53

Thanks Sylvan… I was concerned about the clamp getting crushed in the vise but no worries now.
Jim


----------



## mochoa

Oh nice Sylvain, its an old school band clamp.

Killer here is my blog on making my own 2" wooden screws. http://lumberjocks.com/mochoa/blog/33045

Also Check out Carterswhittling here on LJ. He did a good video blog on his process that helped me a lot. But my method of making the screws worked much better for me and leaves much less margin for error. Looks complicated but really isnt now that I've worked out the kinks.


----------



## Sylvain

After the BTimmons comment #3550
the notion of ideal bench height takes an entirely new meaning.


----------



## chrisstef




----------



## Mosquito

Nice work Stef. Looks like a lot of planing ahead of you…

I just got done with some myself…and I also finished up the other endcap as well.










This is the first time this baby has ever stood with no clamps… I'm pretty excited now


----------



## killerKiteh

Mosq,

I was aware of HHW's screwbox' but IMHO a coarser tpi(pitch/3 1/2" or 4") is much more appropriate for 1 1/2" screws.

Thanks for info, I am along way from needing screws, at present using hold fasts & cabin makers clamps.

Paul


----------



## Mosquito

yeah, 6tpi is a little higher than I would like ideally, but I'm also only using a 2" hub with 3/4" handle, so I figure with the higher TPI, I can get a little better hold with the vise with out having to put as much torque on the handle.

For the wagon, I can always make a new wagon block and screw really easy. If all else failed with the leg vise, I can drill out the threads, and switch to a wood nut on the back of the leg


----------



## chrisstef

Nice work Mos. She's all grown up standing on her own. A proud moment indeed. You got the tiger by the tail now my man.

I got 1.5 timbers scrubbed down kinda square. Ive got a ton of work to do on the jointer. These puppies might end up 4.5" after gettin the twist out.


----------



## Mosquito

Should still be more than sufficient, so I don't think you've got anything to worry about there Stef.

Originally I was going to bring the finished screw to my parents place tomorrow (I'll be up there anyway) so I could cut it to length with my miter saw. But then I thought, 'the hell with it, I'm doin' it by hand. If all else failed, I would have just trimmed it a little shorter if I screwed it up too much.

I'm getting better at this handsaw thing.


----------



## Mosquito

Going to try to find some more … "attractive" screws, but for the mean time, it's workin'!


----------



## mochoa

Stef, I think your going to have a lot of fun building that bench, you have some great material to work with. 4.5" for a top will be nice. Wont you lose less thickness in the legs since they will be shorter distances and less twist?

Mos, the bench is looking good! Do you have a closeup of the hardware for the stretchers? 
The garter looks nice, I like it. If the screws ever pull out then just replace them with nuts and bolts.


----------



## Mosquito

That was kind of the plan Mauricio. If the screws don't hold, I'll just drill all the way through, counter bore for a nut and washer on the back, switch to that instead.

No closeup yet…


----------



## OnlyJustME

She's a purdy little thing Mos. Nice Job.

Stef, I see you had to take a break sawing through that timber by hand then decided to take a picture. 

Here's the material i'll be starting with.

Salvaged Joists with free nails. House was that old to have the hardwood floors nailed directly to the joists.


















4×6 fir bean 19ft long. picked up at a salvage re-use store.


----------



## mochoa

Alright man, its a reclaimed wood, workbench building dance off between OJM and Stef!


----------



## Mosquito




----------



## chrisstef

Maur - youre right about the legs. They should stay a bit bigger but the 2 with the most twist will be used for the legs so we'll see how much has to come off. No big deal either way. I got plenty to work with.

OJM - hell yea i got tired lol. I wouldnt call any of my handsaws sharp either. Tbey got the job done but not without a lil huffin and puffin. By the end of this build ill have the pipes in tip top summer shape. Sup ladies. I really dig that we are both going reclaimed and by the seat of our pants. Those joists are gonna show the nail holes off really well. Im pumped to see them all cleaned up.

Let the 2013 bench off begin!!


----------



## OnlyJustME

You'll be sporting Popeye's this summer.lol
I'm hoping I don't miss any nails before going at it with blades.


----------



## waho6o9

I used a magnet to find metal in my re purposed bench, and found
a nail broken off below the surface.

HTH


----------



## mochoa

Thats different Mos, how do they hold?


----------



## Mosquito

Not too bad Mauricio. They're relatively tight fitting mortise and tenon joints, and then the barrel bolt just keeps it from sliding out. They've got to be at just the right spot to get the bolt to drop in. Is it the most perfect rock solid stretcher? By no means. But it does seem to work, and still allows easy dis-assembly and portability


----------



## waho6o9

This hardware will also work for benches and another LJer used the 
hardware, turned sideways, to mount a French hook on the left side of the Roubo 
bench.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Loving the progress and motivation levels on here. These benches from reclaimed lumber are gonna have some character. Keep it up fellas. Planed up some red oak today. Making a big red strop for all three of you.


----------



## Mosquito

Mmmmm


----------



## mochoa

Pure poetry in that pic Mos. Can you hear them singing?


----------



## Tugboater78

My sharpening skills gonna get plenty of practice… this old oak is HARD! No power planer or jointer in my tool collection.. or a table saw… my Dewalt circ saw and hand planes are breaking it down. Good thing my upper body is tuned from my day job.


----------



## Mosquito

lol I feel your pain Justin… When I ripped the slab for my benchtop, I only had a circular saw, and it left about an inch uncut that I had to rip by hand, and then plane down smooth. I don't have a table saw, jointer, or planer either. No complains yet, though 

yes Mauricio. I heard the singing. Or was that the planing… either way, it was sweet lol

I have the compelling urge to bring this thing to my parents' place this summer, set it in the back yard, and make shavings just to take pictures of it lol

But. I best not get ahead of myself. It's not done. Has anyone used padauk as a garter plate? Or does anyone think it may be a good or bad idea? I've got a few scraps from my coffee table that I was thinking about using it for my legvise garter plate.


----------



## chrisstef

Looks like poetry in motion Mos. Just do me a favor, dont paint your hair blue and sit on the bench all provacative like. Red might take you up on that offer. Jus sayin.


----------



## mochoa

^lol


----------



## Mosquito

lol I've still got a little ways to go before I get to that point 

I only have 2 dog holes drilled in that picture, I just couldn't wait anymore lol


----------



## mochoa

Here is where a narrow bench top is extremely useful. Check out the camps holding onto the back of the bench.


----------



## terryR

Mauricio, looks great! A chair seat, perhaps? OH…where's the floor of your tool well? Mine is glued in place…but maybe a few square holes would be a good idea? hmmm…

Mos, that bench is becoming an icon! I love that wagon vise! Man, the quality of your small projects is about to jump off the scale with the Bench helping ya hold workpieces…instead of YOU holding that workmate!


----------



## mochoa

Terry, not sure if you can see it but I left a gap between the well bottom and the bechtop. This is caused by the end caps/well being deeper than the thickness of my benchtop.


----------



## mochoa

Oh and thanks to OJM for prodding me to try the angels by hand. I was amazed this time at how accurate my angles were when drilling by eye using the square and bevel gauge as guides.


----------



## terryR

Ah, yes, Mauricio. I remember reading that in your blog, I believe. Just too many blogs to remember which is which nowadays!  I've ordered some Veritas hold down clamps…on backorder…but I like your solution to clamping on the far side of the bench.

I sure hope to complete my leg vise this week! Where is Shane to prod me along?


----------



## Mosquito

I almost wish I would have done something like that Mauricio. but my slab was only 2.75" thick, and the endcaps are 3.5", so I added a 3/4" piece to the bottom of the slab that I intentionally left long, so I could use that as a lip for the tool well to sit on. Suppose I could always drill and chisel out a couple holes in the back side of the top if I ever think it to be that big of a deal, but… having practiced a lot with the workmate, I think I can manage for a while lol

Thanks Terry. I'm just worried that my excuse is going to go out the window with the workmate… "I know there's a slight gap here, but the workmate wasn't cooperating" lol

Chair is lookin' good Mauricio.


----------



## BrandonW

Nice chair, Mauricio!

Chris, your bench is built in an apartment, right? How did you address the issue of having to move it if you ever move?


----------



## Mosquito

The legs aren't glued in place, the front stretcher is removable from the legs, and the tool well and end caps can come off still. The top is only 10.5" wide and a shade under 52" long, so it's still manageable. I've been hauling it back and forth to my parents' place to work on it. Although it's not "fun" carrying it up and down the stairs, it's not horrible.


----------



## BrandonW

I forgot that it was only 10.5" wide, which makes it much more manageable. I admire what you're doing. I had lived in apartments for the first seven or so years of marriage and it wasn't until I moved into a house that I began woodworking. I always thought woodworking entailed loud power tools, but now I know better. I wish I had done hand tool work all that time, though.


----------



## Mosquito

I had started down the power tool route until I moved into an apartment… then it started with handplanes, and spiraled from there lol


----------



## OnlyJustME

Chair looks awesome Mauricio. Quicker and easier than setting up some sort of jig on the drill press too.  I like how the legs and back taper towards the seat. At least it looks that way.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah OJM they are fatter at the bottom. Kind of makes it look organic like a little bug or something which I like.

And I'm with you on the jigs. I hate jigs, hate making them and I hate having to store them. They are always odd shaped, not stackable or anything so they take up too much space.

This seat was a test so I figured I'd give it a try by hand and it went well. I need to tweak some of the dimensions on the actual seat. This one is not deep enough front to back.


----------



## BrandonW

Plus it looks pretty uncomfortable sitting on those tenons sticking out of the top of the seat!


----------



## mochoa

You dont like those? I was planning on leaving them proud. Kind of a little Green & Green inspired accent.


----------



## OnlyJustME

You'd have to square them off and chamfer them. I thought they were there so you didnt fall off the seat. they keep you in the middle.


----------



## BrandonW

I would expect nothing short of ebony if you want some G&G pegs.

Also, where do you buy your cat litter, Mauricio? I figured we've talked about everything else on this thread already.


----------



## mochoa

Nah those are Arm & Hammer laundry detergent buckets.


----------



## BrandonW

Ah! We have Arm & Hammer cat litter but they come in boxes, not plastic buckets, and so that's what I thought you had there.

Carry on, everyone.


----------



## chrisstef

That aint for the cats BW, its so Mauricio doesnt have to leave the shop. Not pictured, one toilet seat.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Loving all of your hand tool work fellas (although, not as much as my blue-haired friend). I've only dabbled with my brace Mauricio, and I'm impressed you did that by hand. 
Gonna have to bust that out that brace and my new crosscut saw on the next bench build. My new veritas saw my first hand saw that didn't come from home depot so…..here goes nothing. 
I'm fairly competent with planes now, and I've enjoyed learning the hand tool approach to this work. I guess my goal is to learn both ways, and then I can choose what I like. Maybe it'll just depend on how I feel that day. I do enjoy a shop when i can hear the music. I can't work without music.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah this is one situation where making a jig would have taken longer than drillig it by hand and by eye and it wouldnt have looked any better. But if I was going to do a whole bunch of them I would have certainly made a jig.

I do the fun stuff by hand and the drudgery is done by machine. But for me a project where I dont get to use some hand tools is no fun at all.

I have that veritas saw and its a great saw. You'll like it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Btw Mauricio, I know you love to be frugal. My wife makes our laundry soup. She saw it on that "19 kids and counting show." Stuff works great and we can make 10 gallons for about $10. Saves us hundreds a year. Now we have talked about it all;-)


----------



## BrandonW

Plus that uses the "washing soda" which you'll probably already have on hand for doing electrolysis on old tools.


----------



## mochoa

hahaha, thanks Red. We used to love that show. You know we will probably make it because my wife is on the whole natural organic kick. I've been telling her we need to learn to make our own detergent.

I don't do electrolysis but I do have some Borax in the shop that I was using to put on some wormy oak I bought. The little beetles dont like it and its all natural.


----------



## chrisstef

A soda cap full mixture of boric acid and sugar water will kill an army of ants in 3 days. Summers comin, ants want a tasty little snack do ya? I love home remedies and potions.

I mean whos really counting after 19 kids. Time for the pill there fertile myrtle.


----------



## mochoa

Thats a good one Stef.

I diluted Borax and Hot Shot roach killer (99% Boric Acid) and soaked the wood with it. From what I understand its not toxic to humans. I think it gets up in their joints and abrades their exoskeletons till they die. Lol


----------



## OnlyJustME

Got to cutting the legs to size for my work bench. I did it the easy way though.
.
.
.
.


----------



## chrisstef

Man i like your style Matt, farming out the tough work like that.

I was lucky enough to get most of my pieces cut to rough length. End grain goodness.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Sweet. Looks like some real nice old growth ya got there. 
Looks like the rings match real close on the top four to make a whole tree if ya stack'em right.

What do you think final thickness will be on the top?


----------



## Boatman53

Not sure if I should reveal this but here is a couple of shots of one of my benches while I'm working. Not that I'm proud of it but here it is one vise is holding a door panel, the green vise in the background holds a jam that I'm fitting to the door. Everything is curved and the bevel twists from one end to the other.










Sorry, was going to post more but photobucket stopped loading for some reason.
Jim
Edit: here they are.


----------



## Boatman53

I found this photo in some rambling around the 'net sorry I don't remember where I found it or who posted it.









Then there is this little saw horse/bench by Scott Grandstaff. His website is worth a visit.



















I've got a bunch of those holdfasts, I might keep that idea in mind.
Jim


----------



## RGtools

Holy cow *Jim*. Your bench gets more messed up than mine. That makes me happy in an odd way.

*A question for the esteemed panel. If you were looking to buy a bench as opposed to build, and the bench was for a power-tool user that requires a crapload of tool storage how would you go about it? *

I would build the thing but I have come to the recent realization that I don't have all the time in the world, so if I want things done I have to farm out a thing or two. Oh, I am also not opposed to building the bench and buying the cabinet that goes inside (as that would probably be the most time consuming part).


----------



## waho6o9

I would re purpose an old sturdy desk with a bank of drawers on each side
and a pull out drawer in the middle for small things like pencils, squares, 
and chisels RG.

I'd add a shelf under the middle drawer for a pull out for more storage and
maybe a bottom shelf if room allows.

Then rip the top to be flush with the stiles and have at it. Or, replace the top
and make room for a couple of vises. WoodCraft sells tops as does other outlets.

Have fun RG.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Waho's idea sounds spot on. I see a lot of those big old office desks for free on clist all the time.


----------



## mochoa

LOL *OJM*, great pic man! Way to develop his sawing skills early on. You got to love working outside!

Wow, *Stef* those are some tight growth rings. That bench is going to be so beefy and nice (that's what she said).

*Jim*, great pic, the angles and cures you have to work are mind boggling. What is that a wooden carriage?

Where is Scott Grandstaff's site? I did a search and got WK fine tools. Is that it? Good stuff on that site. I wish I could subscribe through RSS.

*RG*, I would but one of those benches with the laminated wooden top and metal frame. Then you could make some plywood cabinets to put underneath. Or have you see CL sharpening station that he posted recently? Get some old metal mechanics tool cabinets and put a wooden top on it. Looks pretty sharp.


----------



## chrisstef

Maur - i counted 76 growth rings on one of the pieces. Most definately beefcake. The daunting task of surfacing them will begin …. sometime …. it'll be a long slow process with all the yard work and stuff goin on but hey, ive got somethin to work on.


----------



## Mosquito

Holdfasts… We're gettin' closer to that point for me now.

So, here's where I'm at… I have a few things to consider for holdfasts

The Gramercy holdfasts are $45 a pair after shipping
Veritas hold downs $89.98 a pair shipped
Lie-Nielsen holdfasts are $96 a pair shipped
I contacted a local guy who said he could make me some holdfasts, but they were $75 a piece. That hurt a little more than I thought it would. I was hoping for closer to $50 a piece, which I would have been fine with. I like the idea of supporting local people, especially when it comes to handcrafted goods.

What are peoples' thoughts?


----------



## SCOTSMAN

OREO consumption sorry you got me there buddy maybe it's cause I am Scottish but what is an oreo /oreo's


> ?


Alistair minus his OH ree oh's LOL


----------



## BrandonW

Chris, the Gramercy ones work great. If you're looking for the utilitarian answer, go with the Gramercy ones. If, however, you're also concerned about aesthetics, then opt for the LN. I like the idea of handcrafted holdfasts, but unless your blacksmith has made them before, you might not know what you're signing up for and how well they'd work.


----------



## mochoa

I only have experience with the Gramercy ones and they work well.


----------



## Mosquito

Brandon, I had contacted them asking about them, and he says he has made a number of them in the past. Said he uses them with his bench, but I assumed it to be a metal working bench, so I'm not sure of the differences there. I was clear to make sure that he knew they would be for woodworking.

I was thinking I'd lean towards the Gramercy ones as well, but I'm also thinking I might want one or two of the Veritas ones laying around, so if I want to do something late, I'm not smacking away on holdfasts at odd hours


----------



## mochoa

I want to make some of these:


----------



## JGM0658

Mos, I have the Veritas hold downs, and frankly they are a PITA. You don't need to smack the hold downs too hard, all that screwing and unscrewing the Veritas hold downs gets old after a while.


----------



## DaddyZ

Scotsman ???

http://brands.nabisco.com/oreo/index.html


----------



## yuridichesky

Mos, how about this option:










Looks pretty doable if welding isn't an issue.


----------



## mochoa

How come no one has developed an iron cam clamp that works in a holdfast hole like the wooden one in the youtube video I posted?


----------



## mochoa

Bench Bunnies?
http://www.woodtalkonline.com/topic/5415-workbench-choice-of-woods/page-2


----------



## mochoa




----------



## Mosquito

Dude, Mauricio, I want some of those, just because they made me laugh when I saw them!


----------



## BrandonW

They're cute, but I'm not sure how they work.


----------



## killerKiteh

I just recieived a pair of semi custom holdfasts, from Scott Stranger, he is taking over for Phil Koontz,
Phil was making theme from his Alaska forge. He recently retired them, Scott is taking over making them.
With Phil's permission. He shipped them perpaid @$100.00 the pair.
The only change is using acorn pattern, as opposed to the leaf( Phil's non de plum) trademark.
He has a few variations, my pair are excellent, l requested, to fit 3/4" hole in my benches. They fit & function properly one bench is 1" thick, other is 3". Photos to follow.

Paul


----------



## bondogaposis

Holdfasts… We're gettin' closer to that point for me now

Mos, I got mine from Amos Tucker. They work and look great. Reasonably priced for hand made ones.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

OJM- that's one cute little guy. I remember when my little buddy was that small….soak it up. My son(7 now) did give my new veritas saw a try. He proceeded to drop it when he finished the cut, sigh. Just a little ding in the handle.

Those holdfasts from Amos Tucker look sweet bondo. Had no idea there were so many options for holdfasts, shop made or not. I have the gramercy and am happy with them. All of my bench dogs are shop made and I frankly don't see the point of buying any. I don't want metal ones that can ding up my tools.

Today I did my best to make some locking rabbet drawers on 4 hours sleep. Turned out alright. Couldn't help but think of the days when I was paranoid about "machining" parts just right because I didn't know how to plane drawers to an exact fit. Glad those days are over. Tomorrow, first drawers planed and fitted on my roubo;-)


----------



## BrandonW

Paul, do you have a photo of your holdfasts? Or a link to Scott Stranger's work?


----------



## killerKiteh

BW,
Do not have a camera for closeups, tried, but no sucess.
Will keep trying.

Paul


----------



## Mosquito

Great now there's even more options to consider lol

Thanks Bondo, those look good too… hmm… crap.


----------



## killerKiteh

For pics,etc, hold fasts:

[email protected]


----------



## Mosquito

This picture makes me feel relaxed…


----------



## Boatman53

Nice looking bench there Chris.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Jim. Not sure what I'm going to do about the leg vise yet, though.


----------



## mochoa

Its like watching a sail boat go by Mos. Beautiful!

How wide is the footprint of the legs?


----------



## ksSlim

Who was inquiring about hold fasts earlier today?
Just got a new sales flyer from MLCSwoodworking.com
Hold fasts for $15 US.


----------



## ksSlim

Mos great looking bench.
Is it somewhat portable? 
I remember that you spend some time working away from your place.


----------



## RGtools

Chris. I highly recommend the Gramercy tools. They work great at a very respectable price. Admittedly the Amos Tuckers would be my second choice because they are pretty in a functional sort of way.


----------



## Mosquito

That was me asking about holdfasts, ksSlim.

Those MLCS holdfasts look very similar to the Jorgensen holdfasts

*Mauricio*, the footprint from the back edge to the front edge is 18". From the back of the tool well to the front of the bench is 19.5"

*ksSlim*, it is relatively portable. The top slab is 10.5" wide, and 48" long. I won't be gluing the endcaps on, so I can remove the tool well assembly to move it. I'm not gluing the top to the legs either, so I can remove those. I also used barrel bolts to hold the front stretcher tenons in the legs, so I can remove it easily. Basically when I need to move it, I'll take it apart, and either have the tool well pieces, the top, the 2 pairs of legs, and the stretcher, or I'll have just the top with toolwell attached (minus the bottom of the tool well), the 2 legs, and the stretcher.

I can pick it up in the middle and move it around the room relatively easily, and I've brought the top slab up and down the stairs a few times, so I have a rough idea of what I'm in for when I do it again lol

-

Seems like there's quite a few that are happy with the Gramercy holdfasts. That's what was at the top of my list to start with. I'd really like the local made ones, but maybe "down the road" due to expense… Though I was thinking it'd be fun to see if I could come watch, or even "help" him make them.


----------



## yuridichesky

Mos, great bench!


----------



## Brit

Here's a couple more holdfast references, at least for people based in Europe.


----------



## AnthonyReed

So much i have missed ….

Stef - Scrubbing & rough length by hand = Manly maneuvers (not the Lysdexic/Al type). That's what i am talking about!

Mauricio - The chair is looking superb. Way to go man.

OJM - Getting his muscle memory instilled from the jump, too cool.

Jim - You always have some out of the ordinary greatness going on. Great shots, thanks.

Mos - That picture makes me a little chubbed.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Tony, that reminds me. Here is version 2.0. I moved he backrest further back. 









There is a workbench in the picture so this is not off topic right?


----------



## AnthonyReed

Hell yeah! That is great Mauricio.


----------



## Mosquito

good enough for me, Mauricio. I see workbench, Plane, and marking implements… you've got thread options there man!

Chair is lookin' sweet too


----------



## BrandonW

Here's a little DT tool tray I made. It belongs in the tool chest I'm making, but I just liked this picture so I thought I'd post it. And to use Mauricio's excuse, it has a bench in the photo so it's not off topic.


----------



## chrisstef

No suck there Brandon. Chisels, plane, marking knives, sweet holdfast, and a whacker. Checklist complete.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brandon you have a beautiful box!

Smitty quality photography there too. Nice work man.


----------



## chrisstef

Tony - you say that to all the boys dont ya.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Are you implying that i am licentious?


----------



## BrandonW

Aw shucks!


----------



## chrisstef

Im just saying that you really like Smittys photos. What are you implying?

And for fun ….


----------



## AnthonyReed

^You complete me.


----------



## mochoa

Brandon, great photo, top notch work and beautiful tools! I didn't know you were rocking a LN bronze block plane, you been holding out on us.

Smitty hasnt graced us with a pic here in about a week, what are yall talking about?
with a pic here in about a week, what are yall talking about?


----------



## BrandonW

The Bronze 103 is probably a year and a half old. I talked about it on the Handplanes thread back when I got it.


----------



## RGtools

*Brandon* I love the photo and it actually goes along with the Bench theme…or at least seways nicley.

How many of you have bench boxes? This would be a box used to store odds and ends that are good to keep at the bench, but either should not be in a tool well, or you just don't have a tool well to begin with. I am a particular fan of the bench box (mine is nailed together without anything remotely to be considered as adornment") and I keep wedges, tacks, finish nails, pencils, pens, pencil sharpeners, glue knife, and other assorted deitrus in there.

*What's in your bench box?*


----------



## Mosquito

Mauricio, I believe what he meant was "Smitty-quality"


----------



## AnthonyReed

I have a bench pie tin (if that counts) that contains all you mentioned plus an awl.

I did, in fact, mean that Brandon's photograph was Smitty-quality. Thank ya Mos.


----------



## mochoa

I dont have a bench box but I think I need one that would sit below the surface in the tool well.


----------



## mochoa

Maybe I'll make one to try out my new LN DT saw.


----------



## chrisstef

My bench box is currently topless and bottomless and showing many a gap trough the dovetails. Maybe ill put some pants on it tonight and call it done.

Im itching to start milling up the timbers for the bench but gotta wait until i can make that kind of noise without keeping the whole house awake. Should be interesting when i start to wrestle those puppies onto the jointer.

Mr. Reed - excellent volley there.


----------



## OnlyJustME

I don't have room on my bench or any other horizontal surface for that matter for a bench box. I got too many tools and crap everywhere.

Shame you're not closer Stef, i'd give ya a hand with them timbers. You wouldn't notice if one went missing right?


----------



## chrisstef

I hear ya Matt, it would be nice and i would appreciate the help for sure. Nah, i wouldnt notice until i only had 3 legs for the bench .

Id actually take you over to the warehouse at work and let ya pick through the pile. Sometimes id really like to share more of the stuff i come across as most people dont have the same appreciation for good wood like we do. Heck, i bartered more old growth pine than id like to admit for a #6 handplane. At the time i had gobs of it and wouldnt miss 10-12 boards. This was maybe 3-4 years ago.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

RG- a little bench caddy is on my list. Thinking it's gonna be my first "hand tool only" project. Should be fun.


----------



## PhilipMatill

I'm looking to build a carpenters work bench and I've been searching for plans for a heavy old school work bench but keep coming up with light weight planes.

Any help on plans would be great.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Well first, stop looking for a carpenters work bench. You'll get a bunch of 2×4 construction and plywood tops. lol 
Try looking up *Roubo Workbench plans*. Lots of hits on bing and google. 
Did you know that in chinese bing means disease. Do you think it's a popular search engine in china?

I'm just winging it myself. I see benches here i like and figure i can copy it close enough to fit the wood supply that i have available.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah carpenters work bench can mean all kinds of different things.

Roubo's are about as stout as you can get.

You can look up the Paul Sellers Joiners workbench if thats more your style.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Got three strops shipping tomorrow for the battle of the bench boys. I wanna see some progress this weekend

btw, that flexcut gold stuff Mauricio turned me onto works sweet on these strops.


----------



## Mosquito

progress on the bench this weekend will be limited at best from me… I'm out with some computer modding friends Friday night, and then it's my girlfriends weekend off, so I don't get to do much woodworking… I can only hope she's in the middle of a really good eBook lol

That and I'm at the point where I need to find a chunk of wood for the leg vise. I got some pine in the bottom of the tool well now, so the leg vise and holdfast holes are the only things that remain to be done.


----------



## OnlyJustME

chrisstef, i've been working at an old apartment building that i'm guessing was built in the 60's. All the cabinets look to be original. The carcasses and doors are unfortunately just covered particle board but they all had one shelf in the middle of the cabinet that was a solid piece of tight grained pine. Some of them are about 6ft long. I've been saving them from the dumpster myself. Waiting to be built into toy boxes and or tool boxes/cabinets.

Red, what's that flexcut gold stuff? 
I might get to pulling nails out of my bench top stock this weekend.


----------



## chrisstef

I like your style Matt. Pickin out the good stuff. Ive gone through giant shelving systems myself to pick out those 4 or 5 oak boards mixed in through the rest of the plywood. That old tight grained pine is awesome stuff.

I was out looking at the demo of an old town hall building circa 1880. They want to remove all 4 exterior walls down to the sills but keep the roof.  It might be a long shot to get the job due to the complexity but i know the general contractor well. Another shot at finding that pot of gold, chestnut framing.

Red - im friggin pumped for that strop. Ive amassed quite a cool collection of LJ made shop implements and its those stories that wont be soon forgotten. Im hoping i can fire up the jointer this weekend and true up a timber or 2. If the time is right and the wine is right, ima joint ya right.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The strops are pretty straightforward. The key is a firm, thick, quality piece of leather, which they do have. Be sure to only use em for a pull stroke, or you'll slice em for sure. Not that I know;-) I'm sure you guys know what your doing, but this Lj made a nice blog on em: http://lumberjocks.com/mafe/blog/26468

Here's the flexcut gold. Probably similar to the veritas stuff. Stuff polishes backs and bevels like a mirror.


----------



## mochoa

Glad you liked the Flexcut Gold *Red*! It's hard to put my finger on why the gold seems to polish better than the green stuff. I just get a good feeling about it.

I started using it with my carving tools and it's all you have to use for honing. With the gouges unless you drop the or something you don't ever really need to re-sharpen, you just keep stropping with that stuff to keep the edge fresh. (disclaimer: my carving experience is a total of one project)


----------



## waho6o9

I emailed Flexcut and asked them what grit it was and why it was superior to
the green compound.

They replied and informed me the flexcut gets finer and finer as you use it
because it breaks down to a finer grit.
I don't recall what grit it was, but the response made sense.

I haven't purchased it yet though, as there's some green compound that 
will be used up first.

HTH


----------



## mochoa

Yeah it seems that all manufacturers are kind of secretive about what's in their stuff.

I found this reply, I think from Flexcut, on another forum.

"As with all polishing compound, that is a hard question to give a definitive answer. Some of the particle sizes go as small as .6 microns, some are much larger. If they were all .6 micron, it would cut much too slowly. Polishing is a very different process than grinding or sanding. Some of the other factors involved are: What kind of binder is used to carry the abrasive? - What is the material that it is being applied to (leather, felt, wood, etc.)? - What is the abrasive made of?"

So maybe the Green stuff is actually finer but because the particles are so small it takes a lot longer to polish. Maybe thats why the Paul Sellers technique for stropping uses heavy pressure when stropping?

And since carving tools are mostly stropping to freshen up an edge and, you don't use stones as much, it makes sense to have larger particles in there to help it cut faster. BUT, what do I know…

I need to get me one of those USB microscopes.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Right. Then the dude on TFWW says you should never use a loaded strop after your fine stone (hard translucent for me), only bare leather. Says the grit would be working backwards. I don't know about that. The flexcut loaded strop polishes better than a hard arkansas or 8000 waterstone for me. The edge doesn't lie.

Mos, your sounding a little whipped there…lol. Too bad you don't live closer, there are some nice 8/4 chunks in my scrap bin that would make a good leg vise.


----------



## Mosquito

lol she's well aware that I'm only ok with it because she only gets every other weekend off, so we only spend time together every other weekend and maybe once a week depending on our (her) work schedules.

I almost got a piece of red oak 2 weeks ago when I was getting some other stuff from Rockler, but I decided not to at that time (I hadn't been making as much progress on the bench).

The leg for the leg vise is 5.5" wide… what would be a good width for the chop? And thickness? 1.5", 2.25"?


----------



## AnthonyReed

+1 to BRK keeping Mos in line. :-D


----------



## BigRedKnothead

oh my chop is 2" at it's thickest point, but I tapered it on the way down. I wouldn't go any thinner than 1 3/4 on jaw part myself.


----------



## BrandonW

I originally had a thinner piece of wood for the leg vise than I do now. The issue I noticed on the thinner piece was that the middle would bow inward when I would tighten it down. That hasn't been an issue since I had a thicker piece of QSWO.


----------



## KeepIt

I've been lurking on this forum for a while now , and have enjoyed seeing how many different ways you all have skinned the workbench cat. I'm sidling up to making my own, and was wondering whether there are any pros and cons about making it out of heart pine? Other than its excellent fire rating, that is…


----------



## chrisstef

I think heart pine would be an amazing choice. That old stuff is hard as rocks. Glad ya joined the fray keepit.


----------



## BrandonW

I'd love to see the heart pine bench, Keepit. Keep us updated!


----------



## AnthonyReed

^ What he said!!!!


----------



## terryR

Mos, sounds like we are both building leg vises at the same time…

Mine WAS supposed to be done this week, but the wife had something to say about that! LOL.

Anyhow, my leg is 5×5" square, and I was thinking of a chop 8" wide at the top, and tapering to just above 5" at the base. Not even glued up yet…but will be 2" of hard maple covered with 7/8" of red oak to match the wheel assemblies. I'm looking for 2 3/4" total chop thickness when planed smooth.

Thinking of a coffee ground stain for a finish…


----------



## OnlyJustME

So you spill your coffee a lot Terry?


----------



## chrisstef

Ill let ya borrow any one of my work shirts for a sample Terry. Ive got samples in cotton, wool, and polysetser golf shirts. I too spill plenty of coffee.

BTW Terry - what width applewood are you looking for? As i was driving by one of the farm stands this morning i saw a sign out front next to the firewood for sale and theyve got applewood. I couldnt make out how big the pieces were but i can stop and take a peek.


----------



## terryR

Yeah, I've spilled a bit of coffee in my 47 years. Brown t-shirts? nah, that's just waiting to be tie dyed or just soaked in blue.  Actually, dying new white shirts has become common for me. The white attracts too many bugs outside, and shows blood stains way too easily!

Stef, I just looked up where you live…shipping firewood to me is gonna kill you with charges! But if they are selling applewood for firewood, someone please give 'em a bandsaw and a clue. They could sell spalted apple lumber on kneeBay for more than apples!

But, if Stef has a bandsaw…how about a marking gauge from Apple and brass? Or a handsaw tote? Or some nice spoons that are safe for food?


----------



## chrisstef

Stef's got a bandsaw. Id cut it up for ya and cram it in a flat rate until it looked like a stuffed sausage if youd like. Ill stop by and see what the old timers got on my way home from work.

Im currently on project hiatus with the workbench going and even that is gonna be slow moving but ive got a few totes in need of repair that id definately stash some apple for. Most people just use it for smoking without knowing the value it holds as lumber.


----------



## RGtools

*KeepIt*

The only con to pine is while it's drying it can be twisty. but once dried it is pretty stable (I suspect this has more to do with the way the wood is sawn and grown than the wood itself).

What style of bench do you have in mind?


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah *'Stef*, the consultant I'm on a project at work with is having an apple tree cut down in his yard. Made me sad that I didn't live close to him… no idea where I'd put logs to dry, but dang it I would have figured something out…


----------



## OnlyJustME

If ya work with him how far away can he be?


----------



## Mosquito

about 800 miles lol

I'm based out of our Minneapolis office, and he's part of the National office, which is technically based out of Minneapolis, but the consultants for National markets don't have to be located anywhere specifically. He lives on the east side of Michigan, by Detroit. We're on a project that's out of California (L.A.)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I remember making my chop a couple of months back. I was having a good old time.


----------



## BrandonW

How come no one ever makes a chop in the shape of a pork chop? Just saying.


----------



## Mosquito

lol that would be interesting.

Next time I'm grilling porkchops, I'm going to cut one into the shape of the chop I'm going to make for my leg vise


----------



## chrisstef

Ive been pondering the shape of my future chop and dead man. Pork chop chop and tbone deadman. Mmm meaty decision to be made.

Who made tge jointer with the porkchop guard?


----------



## mochoa

I've been pretty happy with my simple and beefy deadman shape.


















It also made me feel good to see that this is actually a pretty traditional shape. Grandpa from the French Kids book "Grandpa's workshop" had a chop shaped just like mine!










Grandpa' has great taste!

I need to buy that book one day. I thumbed through it and there are some great stories in it.


----------



## BrandonW

Sorry, Mauricio, but after seeing this, you'll probably change your mind and decie on going with a porkchop vise chop:


----------



## mochoa

hahaha, that looks delicious!

Reminds me of this one:


----------



## BrandonW

That reminds me of something completely different. Not sure I'd want that on my bench!


----------



## bondogaposis

Nice Brandon, you can work and have lunch at the same time. Here's mine.


----------



## KeepIt

Thanks, all, for the warm welcome and encouragement. I'll be sure to document the process as I get into it.

*RG *- The lumber I have is very well dried. It came from an old cotton gin, so I'm guessing it's 100 years +/- since it was first sawn. Some of it is in the form of hand-hewn beams, adze marks and all, the rest is basically rough 4/4. Powder post beetles got into the beams several years ago, dammit, so I won't know what I have there until I cut them up. I may try to skin off the outer faces on the bandsaw to see if I can salvage the architecturally interesting part, and then see what I get from the rest. A couple of those things are 12×12 x 20 FT, so I may have to recruit a sawmill to deal with them.









As for style, I'm leaning towards the Roubo, but haven't made up my mind for sure yet. Guess you could say I have a notion and not much more, at this point.


----------



## chrisstef

I dunno if youre gonna have enough material there keepit. 
Where the hell did you get that stuff?! Its friggin glorious. Did you dismantle it yourself? Talk to me …

BW - a fish head? 

Bondo - stylish chop. Ill be storing that pic in the ole noodle for the future.


----------



## KeepIt

No, Chris, my old man got it some 30 years ago - used it to floor, trim, etc. the house he and Mom were building. And this was still left over. Me, I was busy being a dirty smelly hippie at the time…


----------



## OnlyJustME

Nice stash. I think you might need one of those portable saw mills. Would probably pay for itself with just half of that stack.


----------



## chrisstef

Pretty cool either way keepit. Id love too see what lies inside those dusty old timbers.


----------



## terryR

Great stash, Keepit! If you are anywhere near South TN, I can help with loading and saw millimg those beauties! My best friend has a mill and is itching to fire it up for the season…

...dangit, now I gotta wipe the drool off the iPad…

Front chop for the leg vise in the clamps overnight…gotta come up with a shape today. I like the chop posted by Bondo above…we'll see…


----------



## Tugboater78

Keep it that say stack looks scrumptious, I'm thinking of recruiting a Sawyer to cut up some of the beams I got, but I gotta find one.


----------



## RGtools

Holy crap KeepIt…you lived up to your namesake quickly. Quite the pile there. The 12 by 12 could be made into a 6 by 24 with a saw cut and some glue…just a thought.


----------



## BrandonW

I'd just stack two of those 12×12s on top of each other and call it a day! Of course, I'm lazy and you don't want to take my advice.


----------



## chrisstef

Rockin the joint ….










I wasnt sure that i could handle the timbers on my own on the jointer but a quick test run proved otherwise. Stef's Pumped.


----------



## Mosquito

Think a 1.75" red oak slab would be sufficient for a chop, or should I glue another .75" to one face for 2.5"?


----------



## chrisstef

Id presume it would be stout enough Mos but i aint that smart.

What would be the disadvantages of an uneven bottom of a bench be? End vice mounting issues?


----------



## waho6o9

That's what shims are for Stef, not a problem.


----------



## mochoa

Mos 1.75" might look more proportional to your bench size, clamp the boards together and see how they look.

Stef, the bottom of my bench is all uneven. You just have to have the spots where you mortise square and parallel to the top.


----------



## chrisstef

Sweet. Thanks for the backup fellas. That'll save me a bit of time and anguish at the planer.


----------



## RGtools

We have a place for Handplanes, Workbenches, Saws, Drills, Layout, & Chisels

Why not the Tool Box?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

1.75" should be fine Mos. I'll be expecting a hand-carved portrait of your mug on your chop.


----------



## Mosquito

my chop on the chop? 

I got a slab that's 36" long (bench is 32" high), and 10" wide, rough one edge. I'm not sure how wide I'll leave it in the end, but it leaves options open. I was also looking at a piece of red oak that was 12/4, 8" wide, but left it, because it just didn't seem right. We'll see, I guess.

I also got a piece of Black Walnut cut off for the garter plate. The one for the leg vise will be 3/4" thick on the outside, and 1/2" thick on the inside. The one for the wagon vise is 1/2" outside, 1/4" inside.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Won't it drive you crazy knowing the underside isn't even?

That is a nice looking timber.


----------



## Airframer

.. Wrong thread..


----------



## terryR

The underside of my bench top still has glue squeeze out…but no one knows that but ME….ooops! 

Shaped my front chop yesterday…hard maple with red oak laminated to the outer side. Came out 2 5/8" thick which I hope is enough. I shaped it like Schwartz's chop sorta. I really like the idea of having 2013 carved into the top section!

I also finished one of the two wheel assemblies from red oak…it's starting to all come together now…


----------



## Mosquito

I'm hoping to get up to my parents' place early enough today to rough out my chop today…


----------



## mochoa

I see it as an advantage to hand tool work, you dont have to perfect every surface, just the ones that matter.


----------



## bondogaposis

Here is my smack down, eat your hearts out! I just finished it and I'm pretty pumped as this project has been going since November. Links to project page and blog here


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'll bet you could park a Volkswagen on that baby.


----------



## DanKrager

Bondo, if I were to build another bench it would be like yours. Oh oh. The seed is planted. NO I WON'T.

Maybe.

Anyway, the bench part is a looker. 
DanK


----------



## widdle

Very nice…well done..


----------



## RGtools

That is a stout wee beast. You should be proud sir!


----------



## terryR

Congrats, Bondo! I'm indeed jealous of that fine bench! Hope I can find as nice a model to pose on mine soon.


----------



## mochoa

LOL, great pic Bondo! That bench is sexy enough, with you on it its off the charts!


----------



## terryR

Actually, I move we start to pose on our benches as completed…beards and all…no hiring of chicks with blue hair anymore.

just sayin'


----------



## chrisstef

Weill friggin done Bondo!

Howd the conversation with the picture taker go?

"Hey would you come take a pic of me and the bench?" 
"Of course" 
"Ok. Let me go get the stool." 
(Perplexed facial expression)
"See one time on lumberjocks …."


----------



## RGtools

Today I went benchless in order to spend time in a warmer local.










Makes a good chair too!


----------



## chrisstef

Terry - you do realize im building a bench. You may wanna reassess your wish there buddy


----------



## terryR

^LOL….

cool chair, Ryan.


----------



## BTimmons

Terry, speak for yourself, bud. That gal with the azure hairdo had me instantly smitten. I was in deep smit.


----------



## BrandonW

Bondo, that picture is the best!


----------



## Tugboater78

Nice bench bondo, nothin against you but a better model, preferably w/o blue hair, would accent it better. Imho haha


----------



## Mosquito

Bondo that is great! Excellent looking bench. Bet it feels good to be done.

I'm getting closer. I got my chop rough cut, and I got the leg vise leg and benchtop in line this morning. Need to plane the chop to the lines, and then do the screw hole drillings etc. Getting excited… I'm hoping by the end of the month to be done… except maybe finish. May wait until it's warmer and do that at my parent's garage


----------



## terryR

Hey, Mos, I'm like you…starting to get excited about the completion of a large project! Mine is nowhere as nice as most shown here, but it's a beginner bench for me. I hope to build a nice cherry Roubo in the future! Although, I'm no longer concerned about the finish on this pine bench…it's already covered with colorful pencil marks, chisel gouges, colored shellac splotches, and coffee. Just gonna pour on some BLO and rub it all in…

Don't mis-understand my feelings toward that blue haired chick…half my age…she's welcome in my shop anyday! But, that photo of Bondo on his own bench wearing a full sized smile just oozes happiness and joy! AND I cannot wait to do the same! 

Besides, I kinda like to see the face behind the username on here. Now everytime I read one of Bondo's posts, I'll picture him on his bench in my feeble mind…

Come on, Stef…pose away!


----------



## chrisstef

You got it Terry. Ill be all in on the bench pose. It may be another 9 months out but ill make sure its something special for ya buddy . To date ive got 2 timbers jointed …. gonna be a long haul on this one but the grain on the fir has me really excited so far.


----------



## bondogaposis

Twelve guys posing on their benches and we'd have a calendar, lol ;-).


----------



## mochoa

I dare someone to strike the same pose as the blue haired chick.


----------



## RGtools

This is the last shot I have of me on a bench…not quite calendar worthy.


----------



## chrisstef

Are you Tebowing an your bench Ryan?


----------



## terryR

That's a goog shot, Ryan, but how did you keep your sunglasses from falling off your head?

Good on ya, Stef! No bikinis or man boobs please!  And clothing is NOT optional…

Hell yeah on the calendar idea! If we can get ScottyB on his, Mauricio, Mos, BigRed…who did I leave out? Maybe even Andy sitting on his workmate? LOL.


----------



## Mosquito

Terry, I was just planning on using some Danish Oil that I've already got for finish on my bench. I'm not too worried about it either, as I hope to build another, larger one once I've got an actual work shop to play in 

Mauricio, I'd do the blue-haired pose, but I'd be sitting in the tool well lol


----------



## AnthonyReed

Looks good Stef, glad you are able to 'rassle them babies into submission.

Bondo, you sexy devil! Congrats sir.

Is that a flash umbrella? On a solarium? They sure are fancy up there in Oregon.


----------



## BrandonW

Who needs blue hair when there's this:


----------



## waho6o9

LOL


----------



## mochoa

Good one Brandon. I would Smurf that. lol!


----------



## RGtools

The light is for the photo shoot I was doing with my wife (she sells vintage clothes) in between outfits I wanted to get some work done.

I'm Blue abu di abu da…. (I apologize to anyone who gets that stuck in there head today)


----------



## terryR

Oh my! Who is the lucky owner of that bench and shop?


----------



## Mosquito

It kind of looks like The Wood Whisperer's bench/shop


----------



## lysdexic

Yep. You can tell by his logo on the chop.


----------



## chrisstef

Hmm whisperer's got a logo, Don's got a logo …. i think its time Stef gets a logo.


----------



## lysdexic

A logo is something that I think about from time to time. Figure out a cool one and then get one of those cool, customized branding irons. Then burn your makers mark into every piece.


----------



## BrandonW

Yeah, I just searched Roubo bench to get a picture and the Wood Whisperer seemed to have the correct angle for the photo.

Logo. I've thought about this too, but haven't come up with something I like yet. For my tool chest I put a "W" on the lid, but I still might add something to the workbench leg vise chop.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Here's a workbench I'm wanting to build soon (I'll modify it a bit):










Time to get a home for the DeWalt that also catches sawdust. Tired of the mess it makes!

Some of the 50s literature also promotes turning the arm 90 degrees when not in use to free up the workbench for other tasks. One graphic had a face vice in place so the Ward Cleaver look-alike could do just that. Love this stuff…


----------



## Mosquito

Some chop action tonight









I can see one of the downsides to a tool well in action already… But it just softens the bottom of it when I set tools in it, right?


----------



## BrandonW

You got it, Chris. You could always make the bottom a lattice or some other style with lots of holes in it. 

Also, nice leg vise chop. I really like the shape you've given it.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Brandon. I spent probably an hour flattening that thing out. I didn't notice it when I bought it (maybe it moved after sitting in the garage for a few hours yesterday), but it was pretty twisted. I think it was about 1/4" high one corner to the other. It was rough lol

The shape is somewhat inspired by the wedge that I was making for my wooden plane. I'll also put a bevel on the top as well.


----------



## Boatman53

Looks like you are going to end up with one almost like mine, Chris.








I like it, as you can see it gives a lot of working clearance.
Jim


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah Jim, that's more or less what I'm going for, I think. My chop isn't as thick, so the angle won't have quite as large of a face, but the general shape is about the same.


----------



## chrisstef

Chop is coming along there Mos. I can only imagine the glory of working on your new bench. Id vote for cutting a hole in the bottom of the tool well for a shop vac port. Quick flip of the switch and adios chips. They do make for a nice landing pad for your planes though.


----------



## RGtools

Chris I can sympathize.

What my bench looks like on a typical day.


----------



## mochoa

Looking good Mos! Your in the home stretch!


----------



## terryR

Nice looking chop there, Mos! I haven't placed a bevel on the top of mine yet, but certainly will.

I have to admit…I love my tool well. Sure it catches debris, but I like having a dozen nice tools close at hand all resting in fluffy shavings. Of course, I haven't built anything larger than a marking gauge on the bench yet…we'll see if my opinion changes!

Ya know, my shop vac sits under the bench anyhow…maybe Stef is on to something with the dust collection port attachment!


----------



## Mosquito

"Now where'd my pencil go…"

I'm not that concerned about the shavings. I haven't joined any of the pieces for the bottom together, so they're all just 8" wide pieces of pine that I can remove with ease. I just remove the small one on the end, and use a brush to sweep the debris to the end. It doesn't really bother me, and only really happens when I'm going across the grain towards the tool well.

I'm already quite happy to have the tool well. Even though the plane till is only about 5 feet away, I would always set the planes or other tools I was using either on the floor, or on the saw bench.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah so far the tool well doesn't bother me either. The funny thing is I don't automatically put the tools in the well. Some are there but most are on the bench top. The well does give me great piece of mind that its less likely that I'm not going to knock a tool off onto the concrete.


----------



## Mosquito

I liked it last night because I could lay the planes on their side and they were out of the way of my winding sticks. I was going to put a 1/4-1/2" rabbet on the ends of the bottom pieces, to get that extra depth for tools, but I'm not sure if I'm going to do that anymore or not. We'll see.


----------



## woodcox

wasatnin yall… I've just got the fir to start my bench build, which will be a couple of large trestle saw horses for a base. Should I leave it stickered till I'm ready or cut to rough length and restack? I want to start soon but just don't know with it (and I) being green to worry about checking on ends if cut to length now. They will be draw bored m&t joints. wwyd?


----------



## shampeon

I'd say first thing to do is get some sealer on the ends of the boards as you've got them now to prevent checking. You'll want to not let them sit around very long after milling, so I'd leave them stickered until you can do all the rough dimensioning at once. Do as much as you can all at once.


----------



## woodcox

Thanks mang. I'm using Len Cullum's design. I've decided to change the feet profiles to keep some more mass in them. Len in his shop.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Welcome Woodcox. Congrats on the start of your bench. Please keep us updated on your build as you progress.


----------



## chrisstef

Woodcox - are the timbers green as in they were just cut? I just see some tags on the end of them which makes me thing otherwise. If you just need them to acclimate to your shop i would say joint and plane them to size +1/4" and let them sit for a day, then run through the whole process again getting them to final size and you should be good to go. Ill be interested in seeing the trestle style bench as well.

Im hoping that mama will take care of babystef for a while tonight, i gots the itch to make some noise and do some jointing.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Who is Wisconsin needs a bench?

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/49046


----------



## woodcox

HD lumber. All of their 2x fir lumber says KD, and all the 4x didn't specify. Web specs give green moisture rating, I haven't measured it,doubt I will. I spent prob an hour and unbanded another stack looking for what I got. I couldn't believe some of the weight difference betwixt some of the 4×4s. I went with heavy and free of heart. The lowes round here quit carrying 4X6 untreated fir in multiple locations, disappointing. I had to go to the ghettoest HD to find the best selection. Thats all I have to say about that. Thanks for the input, been thinking about this project for MONTHS, happy to get movin on it… but I have to first assemble my new cheap bandsaw. LTR.


----------



## chrisstef

Good deal WC. Theres a couple of guys kickin around in here, myself included, just starting benches so it should be cool to follow.

OJM - what kind of lumber is hidden under that dirt?


----------



## widdle

hey guys…any thoughts on whether to glue up apron first, or just do 1 glue up attaching to bench..Gotta little bench remodel going and stuck on this last phase here..


----------



## chrisstef

Hmm tough call there Widdle. Have you given it a dry fit? I think i would glue up 3 sides of the new apron and slip it around the bench then glue on the last side. But thats jus like, you know, my opinion man. The DT's look real nice and will really make the bench stand out.


----------



## terryR

Huh? What apron? Widdle, all I can see in that first photo is the walnut crotch slab against the wall! 

Kidding…sweet dovetails! I think Stef's plan sounds pretty good. unless you can score another pair of hands, and glue it all to the bench at the same time.

Love your bench top BTW. Even though I abuse my bench top, I'd still love to look at the inlay every day!


----------



## waho6o9

+1 for Stef's idea.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Stef abides.


----------



## chrisstef

Leave it to Terry to spot the only crotch in the pic lol.


----------



## BrandonW

LOL


----------



## lysdexic

+1 LOL


----------



## Mosquito

lol, good one 'Stef


----------



## widdle

yeah thats probably what i'll do…The apron dry fits up really nice..stoked…I guess i should just do a dry run onto the bench..Although i'll probably glue it as i like the chaos of a big glue up…

That walnut peice sits on a pine wine box in the living room and is my temp table, As you can see its in line for the jointer..Gonna flatten 6' all the way around it…just to see if i can..Cause crotch comes and goes..


----------



## widdle

Terry The walnut on the bench is where the old 1/2 dog holes were…This bench was a 1" thick butcherblock thing with a 1x apron i got at a garage sale before i new what a workbench was..I just started filling in the underside one nite and its ust a bit of a bad remodel…But i think its gonna work better than the OG..


----------



## chrisstef

Widdle - splendid reference to the OG and thats a pretty sweet garage sale score in my book.


----------



## mochoa

Here is an example where a leg vise with big capacity is pretty damn sweet.


----------



## mochoa

And a couple of random workbench action shots just because.


----------



## chrisstef

Nice work there Maur, whats your plans for those chairs? They're really coming out nice. Is that a standard or custom a$$ mold you're following for the windsor design?


----------



## BrandonW

Nice, Maurucio. Those chairs/stools are looking pretty sweet.


----------



## DaddyZ

Looks Like they will fit nice around the Bench/dinner Table, at least it isn't a TV Holder…


----------



## mochoa

Thanks guys!

Stef, I just traced out my 3 & 5 year old's aases and went with that. lol.










I'll post better pics for the project post.

Let me just say that SYP is very difficult to carve cleanly with the wide soft stuff in between the dense rings.


----------



## widdle

Now theres a bench…nice..


----------



## chrisstef

I thought they looked custom.

Keep doin whatever youre doin, they look great buddy.


----------



## donwilwol

Sweet chairs Maur. I got to ask, did the grain just come out in the perfect spot, or did you plan it that way?

They look sweet!!


----------



## RGtools

Mauricio, your leg vise is freaking amazing and I need to pick you brian at some point when it comes to makng chairs.

For now though, Do those two screws turn at the same time or do you operate the lower screw with your foot while you make the big adjustments? How does that set up perform in thin stock?


----------



## Mosquito

Here is an example where a leg vise with big capacity is pretty damn sweet.

Well then in that case…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ditto on the leg vise Mauricio. It was the only aspect of the Roubo where I just said, "I'm gonna take Schwarzy's word on this one." But now, I don't wanna work without one. 
And your kids are gonna have some spoiled booty's.


----------



## terryR

The chairs look great, Mauricio! And such a nice bench, too!

I'm afraid my leg vise will only have about an 8" capacity…but I'll take it over what I have now. 2" clamp on vises…

I had to re-build my wheel assemblies for the leg vise today…first version didn't leave any clearance for debris. Bummer, I didn't think of that when I drew up sleek, sexy housings. Just a bit more grinding on the set screws which secure the axles, and I'm onto the parallel guide…the LAST piece of wood needed for this friggin bench! Yee Haw!


----------



## mochoa

Thanks fellas.

Don, yeah I picked a board out that had the grain running down the middle so it was on purpose. Home depot did my work for me there!

I'm trying to make up for an uncomfortable chair I made a while back. One of my first projects.

Ryan, you know how to make these chairs already. It uses the same skills used in making the saw bench.

The bottom screw does not turn only the nut turns. It spins pretty well with a flick of the foot! I will make a video so you guys can see how it works.

I can clamp down to about 1/8" even with a 1.5" nut. But the lower screw is friction fit so I can always just remove it if I need to clamp something thinner than that which is unlikely.

Mos that screw is looking pretty good. Do you need a hub for it? I have one I can send you, it just has oak pegs in it that you might want to drill out.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Mauricio. I'll let you know what I decide. I've still got that second piece of 2" maple dowel you sent. I only used the one for the wagon vise screw. Hopefully I can just use that.

That's the original screw I made. I'm going to cut it down a little before I actually use it… thinking 20" might be good. That way it won't extend beyond the back of the tool well.


----------



## mochoa

2" maple wont do man, I'll send you this one, its like 3.5".


----------



## Mosquito

Want to drill a 1.5" hole in the end of it, about 2" deep for me then? lol


----------



## mochoa

You got it man!


----------



## Mosquito

Awesome. Thanks Mauricio. Now I've gotta figure out what I'm going to do for the garter plate again… I liked the 1/4" recess I had in the other one that sort of moved the gap from the face edge to the edges of the hub… I liked that look, and was planning on doing the same, using a 3/4" piece of walnut. I don't have a 3.5" forstner bit though lol


----------



## OnlyJustME

Use a hole saw and a chisel then Mos.


----------



## Mosquito

I may have the right sized hole saws. I could use chisels and the #71 to clean it up. That's what I was thinking about doing, but I'd probably end up having to use a hole saw to go all the way through for the rest of it too.


----------



## mochoa

Well, its actually about 3-3/8" so I'm not sure there is a hole saw that size. Its also the same height. You also want to make sure you get enough knuckle clearance.


----------



## terryR

That's a sweet looking hub, Mauricio. Looks like a fun lathe project…

I just realized this AM…

I don't have a tool for pinning the parallel guide to my bench leg. What do you guys use? Drawbore pin is the obvious answer, but I haven't made one yet. A screwdriver temporarily?


----------



## mochoa

You could probably put a handle on a piece of round steel stock from the local hardware store.

Or Czech edge sells a burnisher kit. Your pin can do double duty!


----------



## RGtools

I am having trouble finding it, but Richard Maguire used to use a piece of steel rod that had been rounded to a loop on one end. Pretty easy work for any blacksmith and a very traditional touch.


----------



## GMatheson

Terry. I was in the same boat as you. No fancy pin. I've just been using a piece of dowel until I get me some steel rod to make a better pin


----------



## mochoa

Thats not a bad idea Ryan, From what I've seen its not hard to do with a touch and a metalworking vise.


----------



## Mosquito

RG, I believe you're talking about his blog post of a month?
http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/?p=1083


----------



## mochoa

I bet you could get Dave to make you one of those in about 5min.


----------



## RGtools

I knew someone would help me out.


----------



## BrandonW

Those pins are pretty sweet. I'd love to buy one.


----------



## chrisstef

Like Maur said, i bet with a torch and a piece of round stock you could make one easy enough BW, all though the linked one is pretty cool. As cool as turning steel red hot, im not sure.


----------



## donwilwol

we need to get Dave to make us some of those pins

EDIT: I've sent Dave a PM seeing if he can make some.


----------



## BrandonW

Dave doesn't frequent this thread, does he? Perhaps we can see how much it would cost for him to make a batch of them and we can split it up between us.


----------



## chrisstef

Stef's in^


----------



## bondogaposis

When I made my parallel guide pin, I followed Bencrafted's video mostly. Here is the link


----------



## terryR

Thanks, guys, I hadn't thought of wooden dowels or forged beauties…I'm sure we have something around 3/8" lying on the ground around the farm somewhere that I can grind for now. And I've got a nice burnisher…didn't think of that!

I can't get the BenchCrafted video to load on the iPad now, but I think I may have seen it…steel pin, brass ferrule, sweet red wood? Sounds like a plan for this weekend!


----------



## BrandonW

Thanks for posting that video, Bondo. That's another great option.


----------



## terryR

Photos or it didn't happen, right?

OK, here's my 2 little wheel assemblies that I finally finished tonight…formed from red oak. Each will be attached to the bench with 4 hex bolts, although they are posing with just a single set now. The wheels were turned by Jim, Boatman, from StarBoard…I wish he had signed them!









Also of note, my front chop laminated from Red Oak and Hard Maple. Total of only 2 3/8" thick…still trying to decide whether or not to carve 2013 in the top before drilling and mounting? Obviously, no finish yet on the chop…wheelie guides are already coated with oil/wax combo probably headed for the whole bench.

You guys that are using wheels, did you tap directly into your wooden legs, or use inserts for the threads?


----------



## mochoa

Woodwhisperer had a good video on turning a handle for the pin to.

Nice wheels Terry! and nice looking chop to.


----------



## superdav721

Cause Don asked and I love my lumberjock buddies.
This is a way I can keep up with it. Hopefully you guys have near the same size holes.
I set an unlisted page
It is password protected. The password is lumberjock. All lower case lumberjock
This is for any Lj or member to my website.
I am not fast. I get to fire the forge up once a week maybe.
First come first serve. Just post me with " I want One" And we can go from there.
Please be patient. I will make the pin, mail it and you can then pay me.
$5 a pin + shipping. I will use USPS
If something isn't working and I have to stop. I am sorry ahead of time.
This will give me chance to test selling my stuff.
I hope this works.


----------



## waho6o9

2 cool SuperDave


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dave might a deal you can't pass up there fellas. The day I made mine I just improvised with something I had in the shop….a landscaping nail:









It has served me well so far.


----------



## bondogaposis

You guys that are using wheels, did you tap directly into your wooden legs, or use inserts for the threads?

Terry, I tapped directly into the wood. It's not hard, I think the Wood Whisperer has a video on doing that.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Bondo. Yeah, I've tapped into wood a lot…but not for something as large as a leg chop! 

I just bought fancy brass inserts for the swap…that's why I was thinking about inserts for the bench, too. I'm tapping into soft yellow pine, but since the threads will be an inch deep, or more, I think I'll just go simple, and screw into the wood itself.

Don, thanks for sending professional help our way! I bet Dave's forged pins show up in lots of bench shots in the future…

Dave, if you are reading along, THANKS! But $5 is way too low a price IMO.


----------



## BrandonW

Dave, you're the best!

Right now I'm using a 3/8" aluminum rod-- no handle or anything.


----------



## Airframer

I am jealous of all of you folks progress on your benches :-( Mine is still just an untrimmed top and it looks like it will be that way for a bit longer. The wife has given me a new project that takes priority for now. I am looking for some feedback and suggestions on how to approach the project I just posted about in a new blog Here


----------



## superdav721

The $5 bucks is for you guys. Prices are subject to change.


----------



## Mosquito

Did a little work on the workbench. I got the chop shaped up, just gotta get the screw, garter plate, and parallel guide made now.

Also got the 2 red oak dogs replaced with a full set of hard maple dowels. 8 in total, one for each hole that I drilled.


----------



## RGtools

Nice depth of field shot.


----------



## waho6o9

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/maple-workbench-top-pair-12-4.aspx

Each of our benchtops consists of a pair of hard maple laminated slabs, each 4 inches thick by 12 inches wide, and available in either 6-foot or 8-foot length.


----------



## Mosquito

I saw in their latest video when they were making some of those. Looks like they'd be pretty nice


----------



## chrisstef

Whats the shipping on those puppies wahoo?

Im hoping to secure enough time to get the bench legs planed to size today. Then i can start chopping mortises. Yea buddy.


----------



## Mosquito

I tried getting a shipping estimate but it never gave me one… just kept spinning its wheel


----------



## waho6o9

ESTIMATE Freight Charges for 72 inch length

ESTIMATE Freight Charges for 96 inch length

@Stef, Hit the estimate tab and follow the zip code menu
and hopefully you'll receive and answer and it won't spin like
it's doing for Mos.

I've found it's cost effective to ship them to a business by $50.00
there about's.


----------



## waho6o9

Let's say your zip is 06480 and you want residential 
and lift gate service the cost would be $262.73

If sent to a business, then it's $195.99

This is for an 8 footer

YMMV


----------



## john111

I love this post! I have bought a bench that was made by someone. Nice bench but there is room for improvement. Some dog holes are not straight and thats hard to deal with. It has the double vise tail vise. But I like the idea of the of the sliding tail vise. He also put doors on the shelves under the table and if you are not careful then you catch your fingers and that really SUCKS! I could not have bought the wood for the price I paid. A few minor adjustments and it will be a great bench so this post is my trial and error. Thanks All!


----------



## chrisstef

Wahoo - straight to your door thats not really a bad investment.

I got to milling a bit today. Got all the legs around 5.25". Final dimension to be right at 5" square. 









Toight like a toiger …









No stretchers or top pieces as of yet though.


----------



## BrandonW

Wow, that is some straight, tight grain. I'm jealous, but in a good way.


----------



## chrisstef

I got really luck with the material for it being reclaimed. Only 3 nails and maybe a dozen staples in total across 9 timbers. And the grain … well, its pretty sweet. Ill be very happy when all the milling is completed.


----------



## OnlyJustME

I'm throwing in the towel. I can't compete with grain like that.


----------



## chrisstef

Bull$hit Matt! lol. Have u planed down any of your stuff yet?. Im itchin to see what you got. Btw - it aint all that pretty. Theres some gnarly knots and even some that have chipped out. Im gonna need to be very attentive to the abnormalities to make it all look good.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Havent had any time to deal with the wood for the top yet. That door took up all my shop/spare time the last few weeks. Then i had to go to a birthday party for my 1 year old niece yesterday and the yard work that piled up today. Next weekend will be getting the house/yard cleaned up for a birthday party for my kid the following weekend. It will be a little while before i get to work on any of my bench. Did i mention i am currently working 150 miles away from home during the week. i am only home on the weekends.


----------



## Airframer

OJM- I feel your pain man. I am averaging 12-18 hours at work a day plus 2 or more appointments for the pregnant wife a week. Add to that a host of other projects that take priority over the bench and it looks like it will have legs sometime in 2015 lol.


----------



## chrisstef

Tough stretch Matt but it'll pass im sure. Gotta make that diaper money, at least thats what i tell babystef. Our schedule is bookin up on the weekends too. Gotta jam all the fun in while the weathers nice. That lumber aint goin no where. Youll get to it brother.

AF - your first on the way?


----------



## Airframer

Yep our first  and it's a boy!


----------



## BrandonW

Congrats to you, AF. I'm pretty sure your shop time will double once you have the baby.


----------



## Airframer

Oh yeah no doubt! I see my free time doubling once the baby arrives… said no one ever! He should be here in just a few weeks so I need to soak up as much of my shop as I can while I can lol.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Congrats Airframer. My first is turning 2 next week and it's been one great rollercoaster ride. I'll pray you have a healthy mommy and baby and no complications birthing. 
We are having a Construction theme for the party. Maybe one of the games can be Who can pull the most nails out of the Wood?


----------



## waho6o9

Congratulations Airframer!


----------



## BrandonW

OJM, oh! So that's your kid in the avatar, not you. Makes a bit more sense now that I think about it.


----------



## chrisstef

Congrat AF. My lil guy is now 8 months. Its a trip. Best of luck in the coming weeks and months.

Ojm - love the construction theme. That should be a trip. Id buy a hammer for the cause, call it a party favor . Btw - babystef likes the rattle, ive been meaning to show ya this pic:


----------



## mochoa

Stef those timbers are looking great man! Your going to have a sweet bench when your done. Slowly but surely.

AF congrats! Get your sleep in now!


----------



## Airframer

Mauricio… everyone has told me to sleep now but, the only problem is….. Being active duty Navy on Sea Duty… extra sleep isn't going to happen. Fortunately for me, Uncle Sam has invested a lot of time and money training me to operate on 2 hours of sleep per day lol.


----------



## OnlyJustME

No Brandon. That's totally me in my avatar pic. I look very young for my age and the camera takes off 30 odd years. 

Steff I have plenty of extra hammers around. Glad babysteff still likes it and it has survived the baby torture.

Airframer no matter how much money uncle Sam throws at your training you'll be no match for babyairframer.


----------



## Tugboater78

I have 1/3 of one leg done on my bench..

Ive come to the conclusion that the legs and undercarriage will be oak while the top will be SYP from the blue box store.. too many nails in most of this reclaimed lumber… b









ut we shall see what happens


----------



## chrisstef

Looks like a ton of work there Tug. Pulling cut nails out of oak is absolutely zero fun. A little bit at a time and it might not seem so daunting, at least thats how im approaching my build. Legs first, then stretchers, then the top, then the vices, deadman, and other accoutramonts.

BTW - if anyone is interested in the cut offs ill have from the bench id be more than willing to resaw some of them down into shippable pieces. But, be forewarned, im a notoriously slow shipper.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Slowly but surely boys.

I'm glad you guys cleared up OJM and Stefs pics. I had a hard time believing they could type with those tiny hands….lol. Actually, I've been surprised by how many of us on here are close to the same age. Most the woodworkers I've met around here are some pretty old geezers. 
I'm in my early 30's, but we started having kids younger than most. I enjoy seeing pics of your little tykes, and have a soft spot for any young dad pulling double duty as woodworker.


----------



## BrandonW

Early 30s here too and we just had our first kid. Mauricio and I go to the woodworker's guild meeting in our state and it seems like 95% of the people there are 55 and older. My wife jokes that I've got an old man's hobby.


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## chrisstef

Im just sitting in a really oversized chair carrying imaginary suitcases after a bad haircut in my profile pic. Chalk me up for another early 30's woodworker.

Woodworking as a new father goes somethin like this:

"Ya think i can run that saw without waking the baby up?" 
"Hmm. I dunno, but if you wake him up you're dealing with it" 
"Crap, where did i put that old handsaw and how the hell do i sharpen that thing" "Andy !!!"

Ive found that quick 30 -45 minute intervals can be tolerated by both the wife and the baby. Those marathon days in the shop are long gone and expectations need to be tempered. Like Red said, slowly but surely. One thing ive found out is that without a ton of shop time my mental planning has come a looonggg way. I now know my next step on a project and what i need to do to get there. Baby steps all around.


----------



## terryR

Guess that makes me an ol' timer…pushing 50…beard is going grey. 
No kids, though.


----------



## chrisstef

Dont worry Terry mine is too!

I also just got a text from the daycare center ….
"Boy is he getting hard to change. You've got your hands full as he gets older i think lol"

Ohh goody. This coming from a woman whos been at the daycare center for 12 years. On the brigh tside ive also been told that he has a favorite hammer at daycare to match the one at home that he likes to beat his mobile with as it spins over his head.

Chip off the ole block!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Clinging to my 40s, kids getting older, shop time stable. Productivity is another matter, though.


----------



## mochoa

Hahaha, speaking of the old men's hobby (Terry were talking retirees here, not you), Brandon you missed it, at last weeks class on making shaker boxes there were a couple of old dudes falling asleep. Lol.

I like the old guys though, they be dropping a lot of knowledge. But the Modern WW Assoc. started up here to though, that seems to be where all the younger guys are at.

Workbench related pic of the kids!


----------



## donwilwol

old mans hobby, now that's just mean!!

My son followed in the footsteps though. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Wilwol-Building-Remodeling/120251848034201?fref=ts


----------



## mochoa

Wow, thats awesome Don! Amazing work. You taught him well.


----------



## ksSlim

Don, your son does some nice work.

That said, we here would expect no less from someone you taught.


----------



## RGtools

Late 20's here.


----------



## BrandonW

Great work there by your son, Don. I'm glad that I chose an old-man's hobby because by the time I become an old man I might be half-way decent at it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I remember reading something a while back about woodworking mags having to keep in mind that their average subscriber was about 60. Some guys don't pick up a hobby til they're older. Others have been doing this for a long time and I love learning from them.

Brandon's comment reminded me of something I've been thinking a lot about lately. For a part timer, I get about as much shop time as anyone (avg 20 hours a week). At that rate, I don't know if I'll ever "master" this craft as a full-timer could. Takes 10,000 hours they say. 
So, I'll probably spend the rest of my days meddling in the shadows of master woodworkers. That realization doesn't bother me though. In fact, I embrace it.


----------



## JayT

by the time I become an old man I might be half-way decent at it.

+1


----------



## Mosquito

10,000 hours at 20hrs a week is just under 10 years


----------



## BigRedKnothead

hehe Mos, I never really crunched the numbers. I'm a good 2-3000 hours in, and the only thing I've possibly mastered is a tapered leg. I might need more time;-)

Don- if my son made something like that one day, I would definitely have a lump in my throat trying to congratulate him.


----------



## DaddyZ

Mid 40's - Kid in College - All the shop time I want (after Work).....

& my Girl has her own Tool Set in the back of her Car.!!!! You gotta teach em right !

It gets easier guys…


----------



## bondogaposis

Guess that makes me an ol' timer…pushing 50…beard is going grey.

Not hardly sonny, wait 'til you are 65 before thinking you are an old timer. That'd be me ;-).


----------



## GMatheson

Early 30s for me too. Still working on the baby part over here and I find that I'm usually one of the youngest too when I go to any woodworking/tool related events.


----------



## shampeon

It gets easier guys…

The more I hear this, the better. Late 30s here, with two sons, 3 and 1. I used to enjoy weekends…. But my eldest likes pretending he's working in the shop like dad, so there's that.


----------



## BTimmons

More of a lurker to this thread than a contributor. But since we're doing the age / parental roll call…

I'm 32 with a three year old daughter. She seems pretty balanced overall. She loves her stuffed animals, having bows in her hair and all that girly stuff, but she's also really interested in what I do in the garage.

Every now and then she'll demand that we go in the garage. I usually opt for the Socratic approach of teaching and conversation, so I lightly prod her to elaborate.

"What are we going to do in the garage?" 
"Go build!"
"Oh, what is it that you want to build?" 
"Biiiiiig house!" (holding her hands up in the air)

So yeah, I think there might be a doll house in the future. She's also asked for a castle. I'm all over that. Although I have several reasons why I hesitate to include her for the time being.

- Her attention span is like that of…well…a three year old.
- She's had asthma and allergy troubles, and I don't have an actual dust collection system beyond a shop vac.
- Power tools. Need I say more.


----------



## Mosquito

I find that I'm usually one of the youngest too when I go to any woodworking/tool related events.

Yeah, what you said lol When Richard and I went to the MWTCA meet a few months ago I felt exactly the same… Smack in the middle of 20 here.


----------



## mochoa

I'm 38 with a 5 and 3 year old. I have gotten them in the shop on occasion to make some really quick instant gratification toys. Mostly a box of scraps and some hot glue.

So far they have no real interest in woodworking. The pic above they were imagining that the planes were trains and that the board clamped in the wagon vise was the track. That lasted a couple of days and it was awesome!

Also my 5yr old was hanging out with me the other day (two days in a row) just sanding the corners off of wood in the scrap box! Slowly but surely….


----------



## Tugboater78

Hitting 35 in a month or 2, no kids, though wish i did, qoodworking ive been doing off and on since my teens though you could say most of it is carpentry, fine woodworkings only a couple years in. Landscaping is what i went to school for, but it didnt pay the bills, so its a sidejob, hobby. Lil by lil


----------



## dbray45

I am in the mid 50s - makes me in the old category.


----------



## Boatman53

Since we're doing this. I'm 60 with a 24 year old daughter and a 14 year old son. I think I'm the one of the youngest regulars at the community boatshop. Enjoy those little ones they grow fast. Right now I'm dealing with my 90 year old Dad. Same issues as a baby but I'll take a baby any day.
Jim


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Really cool to hear a little bit about ya'll. Would've loved to have a dad like some of the older fellas here to teach me, but it wasn't in the cards. Now I'm raising 3 lil ones, trying to give them better than I got.

As for us younger guys…..old man's hobby my arse! We're starting a revolution. Just like Tony Hawk and the Bones Brigade….LOL.


----------



## chrisstef

I wanna be part of the anti-disposable society. I dont wanna have to call a plumber to replace a toilet, an electrician to replace an outlet, and a carpenter to fix a squeaky stair. F all that. They can keep their loafers and contractors on speed dial. Stef's gonna build some $hit.


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## mochoa

^LOL
They do try to get you and charge you crazy money for things that are easy to do yourself. The great thing is that its all on youtube now!


----------



## JayT

They do try to get you and charge you crazy money for things that are easy to do yourself

Yes, but in their defense, and having been on that side of the fence, if they don't charge crazy money, then they spend all day doing stupid stuff that homeowners ought to be able to do themselves instead of working actual contract jobs that require licensed and experienced professionals. The pricing helps weed out a lot of the annoyance calls and those people that cannot figure out how to pull up a youtube video get to pay through the nose.


----------



## DonBroussard

57 with two adult children, 32 and 31-started pretty young running the baby factory. I was a relatively late starter with woodworking at about 20 and I had a big gap in my woodworking time and interest while working with the tricycle motors. I've only restarted recently. I retired a couple of years ago, and had oodles of shop time-my wife helps occasionally by serving as an outfeed assistant off the table saw.


----------



## mochoa

Good insight Jay but what about the appliance repair guys that want to charge hundreds of dollars to unplug and plug in a dishwasher part that cost a couple of bucks and only a few minutes of work.

Or when they want to charge for an icemaker repair when an entire new unit costs less and is held in with two screws.

Or when they charge you $300 bucks to change an oxygen sensor on your car so the check engine light will turn off? Its literally a 10min job to change out one of those sensors.

All things I've learned on youtube! lol.


----------



## WhoMe

52 here, no 2 legged kids but have 2 - 4 legged kids. I think someone had higher plans for us regarding the no kids thing. Anyway, been on and off woodworking since Jr. High woodshop. Mostly Off for many years but did it for needed projects and woodworking on the house for the past 20 years. Never really got into woodworking until about 4 years ago. Since then have become REALLY book smart in the past 2 years since unemployment cant pay for wood. But when I get a job, watch out. I gotta list of projects a mile long. Including a couple of work benches and tool cabinets.


----------



## BTimmons

Right on, Stef.


----------



## BrandonW

I had plumbers over a few years back to snake out my main sewer line. I attempted it myself, but wasn't successful. They were done within 15 min and charged $250. I asked if they could stay longer and pretend to work or something so that I didn't feel as ripped off.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I've offered my two oldest nieces any piece of furniture they'd like me to build as a "Congrats" for being out on their own, post-college. It's been almost a year and neither of them have taken me up on the offer. So I build for me, mostly. Refurbishing an old table (tilting top, parlor type table w/ inlay) for my bro-in-law and he loves what he's seeing (it was crap-ola when I started). With word of mouth, I could stand getting more restoration work I could do with hand tools. Then build as required.


----------



## chrisstef

Ill take a mohagany secretary desk Uncle Smitty.


----------



## shampeon

Awesome gesture, Smitty. I moved so much and had such variable house mates in the couple of years after college I would have hated to have any nice furniture. It was tough enough having decent knives and seeing them get heinously abused…. You might remind them of your offer once they're a little more settled.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Even when we get a little off topic, we're still skirting around the heart of the matter. 
To surmise:
- Most of us are younger that the stereotypical 65 year old woodworker.
- We despise our society's trend to pay everything done, and admire our forefather's independence.
- We want to build it ourselves, and do it ourselves. We realize we can save a lot of cash and have much nicer furniture and homes that the crap that is being made today. 
- We really love beer, corned beef, and sauerkraut….oh those might just be me;-P


----------



## Mosquito

I'm with ya on 3/4 of those Red


----------



## bandit571

Hmm. posting to catch up. Might as well show what I work ON









The "WORK CENTER" and









the STORAGE AREA. This is about the toatl work area i have. I have also added a jig to help plane some smaller stuff on









Don't look like much, does it? That's ok, it does the job









Just some black Cherry "scrap".


----------



## donwilwol

Yep, 3/4 German here and still can't take the sauerkraut.


----------



## BrandonW

I love me some kraut. There's a sandwich place here that makes wonderful schnitzel sandwiches and offer a "German-style" one with onions grilled together with kraut. It's delicious.


----------



## OnlyJustME

i can only do the kraut on a reubin.


----------



## Tugboater78

Aye brkh i love the corned beef and saurkraut, beer not so much..my early 20s broke me of that..i fell in a well of swill for a few years and i dont wanna go back


----------



## chrisstef

Hold the kraut and refill the heifenweizen, unfiltered if ya got it.


----------



## OnlyJustME

sweeeeeet streusel


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Stef just likes flashing that insane grain.

Atta boy Tug, stay out of the swill. All thing in moderation. Easier on the liver and the colon.

btw, I know I have some weird tastes. While I love those things, I dislike most sweets, especially chocolate. Weird, I know. Keeps me skinny.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Stef flashes his wood any chance he gets.


----------



## chrisstef

Lol. Ya just gotta be reeeaaalllll close to see the grain OJM


----------



## DanKrager

Good gawd. My workbench (that I I built) is older than most of you! I have noticed and am happy that "youngsters" are picking up the "trade". I am especially impressed with the hand tool interest. This country has never had a pervasive apprenticeship program like in Europe to continue the skills, so it is good to see the skills being learned by passion. And I was thinking that there are going to be an increasing number of estates that liquidate some outstanding benches and tool sets in the next generation.
Too soon alt, to late schmart.
DanK


----------



## ksSlim

What Dan said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some of use were lucky. We had Grandpas and Dads to teach us.

Mine said "Go to school and get an education so you don't have to work so hard".

After work I came home to learn timber framing, saddle making and cabinets.

Forty years later in experimental aviation-Currently work trying to teach youngsters to build bird house.


----------



## widdle

Not bench related…but big red…Ahem…Dogtown…Just sayin…


----------



## woodcox

34ish stay at home dad with my 14 month old girl, naps and after bedtime is my only alotted shoptime. Though I do include LJ's in shoptime. Have been an auto tech in the same shop for the last 12 years. My weekends are fri and sat when I get to go back in there to beat on cars. Today I got a start on one of a couple "bench burrows" to work my beams. I doubled the materials list for my trestles and picked the worst tubafore for em. I'll post a pic of em finished. Btw I love the sound in the shop of my stickered homestore beams cracking, its loud as hell!


----------



## widdle

Mid forties…Glad to know there's some kids to sweep and roll up the chords… Donuts boys..


----------



## chrisstef

^ Boss, how ya take your coffee boss?


----------



## carguy460

Hmm…I'm still a "kid" I guess, 29…nice to be considered young now and then. I'm going back to college to make amends for my first college experience, and I'm the "old guy" there…


----------



## donwilwol

I'm going back to college to make amends for my first college experience

Good for you Jason. I did the "college late in life" thing as well. Its been very well worth the effort.


----------



## BrandonW

I guess I liked college so much that I never stopped going. Yeah, that must be it.


----------



## carguy460

Yeah, I loved my first go-round at college too…don't think I saw a single classroom, but I did drink alot of beer…(bonus points for anyone who knows what song that last line is from)

Anyway, I guess age is relative in a way. I'm considered young in my profession (I'm a wind farm operations and maintenance site manager), considered old at college, and considered young in this woodworking world. And my 10 year old daughter thinks I'm ancient…(yeah, do the math there…oops!)

Sorry for the off topic post!


----------



## terryR

Hey, this has been pretty cool learning a bit about you guys! I freely admit you LJ's are my family…love ya more than my own brother and sister. Sad, but true!

I'm a retired open heart ICU nurse, went back to computer engineering school since then…made straight A's too…even at the old age of 40…I'm proud of that fact since I've inhaled since age 17. Plenty of brain cells left working in my head…don't believe the naysayers! 

BTW, anyone who doesn't eat chocolate just isn't right, BidRed.  I'm a cookie monster…


----------



## bondogaposis

I started college in 1965 and graduated in 1988. I'm a slow learner, LOL.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I know Terry, it drives my wife nuts that I don't like the desserts she makes. Also care a lot about some LJs.

My degree is in Pastoral Ministry if ya'll can believe that. No beer drinking during my college years…pretty straight-laced place. Probably just as well I didn't have much temptation around during those confusing years. 
It didn't take long for me to realize that ministry wasn't the calling for my life, but I finished the degree anyway. Now I'm a railroader. Ya know, fell in love with a girl…and life happened. 
Anyway, let me know if any of you need some Biblical Greek translated…lol.


----------



## BrandonW

Red, that's funny. I teach Greek to seminarians.


----------



## chrisstef

Red - if you got extra desserts go ahead and send em on my way. I havent met a cookie i dont like, well besides the ones from Rockler, they taste like $hit and they ship em stale.

I laid in bed last night thinking about the through mortises on my bench top and the mortises for the stretchers. I got to thinking …. With the leg vice requiring a through mortise in the leg for the stabilizer jammy i guess there is 3 options as to the placement of the mortise:

Mortise the very bottom of the leg and let it ride on the concrete floor?
Mortise above the stretcher?
Mortise below the stretcher?

Cha'll think?


----------



## ksSlim

If the stretcher has enough clearance above the floor, mortise below, so you could use a wheel on lower vise arm. Some I've seen the lower arm rides atop the stretcher and jam cause there's no wheel.


----------



## chrisstef

So below the stretcher but above the floor? I guess i could see how having it ride on the floor would want to bind it up especially if the floor isnt level. Thanks for the info slim.

Using 4" stretchers as i plan id raise it up to 7" above finished floor leaving me 1.5" off the floor and 1.5" below the stretcher for clearance.


----------



## terryR

Stef, is your stretcher height carved in stone? Raise them up a bit. Mine are 8" off the floor, and space seems cramped for wheels and all. Not unworkable, but tight. I suppose the parallel guide could be shorter and thicker?


----------



## chrisstef

Nope, nothing is set in stone. I was just tossing ideas around in my head last night as i greeted the sandman. Bench will be 34" in height so with a 5" thick top ive got 29" to play with and a heck of a long time before i install the vice but my next step, after final dimensioning of the legs, is to chop the mortises for the stretchers. It'll give me a break from milling. I really need to do some more investigative work on the parellel guide (thanks for proper terminology) and using a wheel. A blog consulting i will go.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Glad I'm not the only one who lays in bed thinking about my projects. I went with low stretchers and stabilizer mortised above. You can see in this pic. Just remember you will be bending over fairly often to move the rod. I wouldn't want it a couple inches off the floor.


----------



## chrisstef

"Just remember you will be bending over fairly often to move the rod" - (3rd grader chuckle)

Good call though Red, ill certainly take that into consideration. It seems to me, first thought and all, that a guide higher up above the stretcher will be better off without lowering the stretcher too much decreasing lateral stability. F that sounded smart.

I still havent made up my mind if im going to have a lower shelf or not either. Im leaning that way though because, why not, extra storage s always helpful.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Outstanding showing Stef!

That Wilwol gene is strong.

I'm 42, bean-counter, downsy-woodworker and to the best of my knowledge have not spawned (you're welcome). +1 love some LJ's


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Stef can always be counted on…lol. Earlier I was surprised he let me get away with saying "soft spot."

I do like having the lower shelf. Mine was mostly shorts in my scrap bin. I didn't do the tongue and groove thing like Schwarzy. I want gaps for the sawdust to fall through. That said, I haven't ruled out a shallow tool box like Smitty made.

I'm gonna go eat a reuben on my bench for lunch. Life is good. Til the railroad calls tonight.


----------



## terryR

+1 to a lower shelf. No, I don't have one, but wish I did. When I get a chance to build my next bench, I want lower stretchers for just that reason!

And the fancy chain drive system that Jim builds so I don't have to bend over for the pin…back surgery in 1998 is my excuse.


----------



## Tugboater78

I wanna get home so i can get to workin on mu bench..my fever is rising..


----------



## chrisstef

I got the same sickness Tug. No bench work since last weekend. Stef's getting antsy. Itching to get the legs to final dimension. Luckily i came acros an interesting article and photo of the tracks a rover makes on Mars to tide me over …


----------



## superdav721

Hey guys I have changed the stuff for sale page. The original deal stands for you five guys that have ordered them. There were four of you.
Smitty
Brandon
Terry
And Ryan
*AND DONW*
The ones in the picture are the four I made for you.
*PM me your address and I will work on shipping them. I will start shipping them at the first of the month.*
I took the password off the page and have updated the page.
http://chiselandforge.com/stuff-sale/


----------



## donwilwol

Are you really saying you lost my order?


----------



## superdav721

Oh no Don!
I didn't see the post.
You are in my friend. You started this!
Correction You 5 gentlemen.


----------



## BrandonW

Dave, thanks for doing this! Those look very sweet, I can't wait to use it.


----------



## superdav721

There is one stipulation. I want a picture from you guys with the pin in your fine benches. Please. I would like to post them on my website.


----------



## RGtools

My "fine" bench is drying right now in slab form so you will have to wait two years.

Be patient Dave I will get you a pic.


----------



## superdav721

@ RG


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That is a steal of a deal. You got it, Super. Thank you again, I've not been this excited since the Mallet Swap!


----------



## BrandonW

Sure thing Dave.


----------



## bondogaposis

Chrisstef, I did mine like bigred, I put the stretchers real low then put the parallel guide just above them. It gives you a little bit of room for the guide wheels if you are going to use them.


----------



## RGtools

I know I posted these pictures before but at the time I had not designed the workbench. I plan for the next bench I build to show off a bit and I want something pretty to look at. The general idea I have for my bench is a split top Nicholson with a decent end vise (right now I am thinking the Veritas tail vise as a way to make a quick wagon) and an angled leg vise.

I only have enough material to make one bench considering I am going to use full 2.5" slabs for the skirting material as well. I have two pretty decent bookmatches to work with. Which would you do?

I love the way this one looks. It's tasteful and understated (things I like to have in my work).










But how often do you get the opportunity to make a smiley face bench?


----------



## AnthonyReed

^ Such an awful predicament you are in!! You poor soul. ;-)

The smile would be a bit more cantankerous to flatten wouldn't it? But i am not doing the work and am worlds away from tasteful so i vote for the Have a Nice Day bench.


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## chrisstef

RG - most certainly i would not be able to pass up the smily face bench. Nice pile of slabs you got there.

Bondo - i think thats the move om going to go with, dropping the stretchers and letting the guide ride above them so that i can keep all that extra room for under bench storage. I was examining your bench through the blog last night as a matter of fact. A splendid bench it is.


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## waho6o9

From Mr. Myers: http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/wMyers/art/moravianBench/moravianBench-15.asp

Make your leg vise parallel with the angled leg and we'll call it the RG angled workbench. That's what I'd do.

Or, for the Nicholson workbench, Mr. Myers has this one:









http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/wMyers/art/nicholsonBench/nicholsonBench-05.asp

A lot of friendly advice on that website as well.


----------



## chrisstef

I was out this morning kicking off a small asbestos job for a homeowner this morning who convienantly happened to run a saw mill, therefore receiving preferred pricing. Once i got things rocking and rolling the owner took me into the lumber barn …. holy sweet mother of lumber. Tens of thousands of board feet of native lumber. All rough sawn, some stuff over 24" wide and some stuff thats been stacked for 60 years. From ash, beech, butternut, oak, maple, walnut, and cherry this guy had it all and lots of it too.

I was looking for something for the upcoming leg vice and left with a 8/4×9" x 8' piece of air dried cherry for $20 and a quart of homemade maple syrup for french toast this weekend. If there's anyone lurking thats local to CT id be more than happy to give you contact info for the mill owner.

(Pics in next post from my phone)


----------



## chrisstef




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## AnthonyReed

HAhahahaAAHaahAahahahah! Fantastic.


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## RGtools

Holy freaking Mecca Batman! 60 year old air dried material in the rough…why is that so far away? (bangs head against wall).

The Morvian bench is a thing of beauty. The idea of an angled leg Roubo has intrigued me for a good long time, but the material for the version I would like to build has proved elusive (I want to build it with some serious slabs). If I did laminations it would be well withing reach though…hmmn?

I wish I could make both benches (I would have to sell one, but I want to build it anyway).

Mayhaps I should scout out some local oak for the base, that would stretch the material out to the point I could make both (then of course I have to make Sophie's Choice to decide which one I keep)


----------



## woodcox

In no way, I'm sure, a premeditated visit to feed your pileophilia. I predict your asbestos job will run long. Great find, wishing I was in CT. Here's are my finished bench burrows.


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## chrisstef

Woodcox - no way would i low ball a job like that . I also kick off every job with a site visit (insert sarcasm). When the opportunity arises to tilt somethin in the old boys direction i mist take advantage. I made a great contact today. Its also good to be able to help out the local economy. Ahh sweet justification.

Excellent looking burrows as well. I like the ogee look of the ends a lot.


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## widdle

great contact…How long of a demo job is it..

RG.. What kind of lumber is that ?


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## chrisstef

Unfortunately its a little one day job widdle. We're only removing a little bit of asbestos from a house on the property that they will be tearing down themselves. 3 trips up there meeting with the owner and i came out with a $3500 contract but on a personal level, an awesome source for nice materials. In this business you spend more time looking at work that you wont get than anytign else. So it goes.


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## widdle

Yeah..I get it, Im in the trades as well…Hopefully they will throw you couple sticks..


----------



## bandit571

MAIL CALL! Looky what showed up today









Looking like a Stanley #78 made for Wards Master









Not much rust, might have to sharpen the iron a bit. ALL parts are there, too. $30, counting S&H.

These any fun to use????


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## mochoa

My shelf is a little higher but I'm not planing on adding a cabinet at this point. 









RG. Lol, love the smiley face, that will make a sweet bench!

Bandit those can be fun but my Craftsman 78 is mostly frustrating. Most of my issues are caused by the fence slipping in use. You just have to make sure you have everything tightened down really well.
Here is mine in action on one of its good days.


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## AnthonyReed

^Sweet mallet!


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## BrandonW

RG, go with the Smiley!

The 78 is a sorry substitution for nicer planes that are much more suitable for fine woodworking. I don't think the 78s were designed to be used in a cabinet shop.


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## mochoa

I need to try my #45 for rabbets; I'm sure it's much better with two fence posts. 
Tony, thats my Asian inspired carving mallet made out of oak firewood. lol. I'm now much better equipped since the mallet swap with the beast Stef sent me. Drives a chisel through end grain so effortlessly.


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## widdle

mauricio …Thats a beauty..


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Brandon, ouch! I feel compelled to offer a rebuttal: the #78 is a very flexible plane that does rabbets at a wide range of depths and widths with ease. It even does raised panels. I wouldn't be without one.


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## widdle

Heres my latest adventure..the bench is Uggly..But the tails came out pretty decent..for a framer…



























do you guys have any suggestions on how to attach a removable vise handle cap…without using a screw..Dont have a lathe or any wooden screw making jigs ?


----------



## AnthonyReed

I knew that Mauricio but i still like it. The CT beast is a very fine specimen as well.

Nice work Widdle. Good looking pooch too.

EDIT: Perhaps a pin that could be driven out if you want to remove the handle cap?


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## OnlyJustME

*Widdle*, we'll let the bench slide. In fact i think it looks great seeing as how you don't have opposable thumbs. . . . . .that is you in the picture right?  Also i assume you still want to be able to remove the cap on the handle? I'd pin it like Tony suggested.

*RG*, definitely the smiley face bench. You could totally botch the build but when you look at it, it would still make you smile. 

*waho*, Love the moravian bench. it's basically what i had pictured in my head to do with my bench build. Just didn't know it already existed. thanks for the link.

*Chrisstef*, you suck. I've been looking for that guy down in my neck of the woods and you have him up there.

*Bandit*, i think i bid on that one too.


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## widdle

I like thumbs..not opposed at all..my chick has 3…

Tony…What ? horizontaly..like a 1/8' dowel or mabye copper…thats a good idea…thanks..


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## WhoMe

Bandit, nice score on the 78 clone.


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## widdle

Tony..Just noticed your in Torrance..Im in venice…Practically neighbors…I actually know a sawyer in Torrance…yep..Torrance…Tonnage of lumber..Let me know i'll hook you up…


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## AnthonyReed

Outstanding Widdle! I will. Thank ya man.


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## RGtools

*Widdle* Silver Leaf Maple if my hazy memory serves my well enough. It's hard, heavy as sin, and grows in my area. The slabs are about six and a half feet long wich would actually serve to lengthen my current bench a bit.

PS your bench is awesome.


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## WhoMe

Hey Tony, Widdle, another so call boy here. I'm a bit father south in Fullerton.
Like the tails on your bench there Widdle.


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## widdle

Who me…who me…thanks, Just finished flattening and squaring it all up…got lucky on the glue up…sides are square…stoked..fullerton, right on, there is an old tool swap meet out this way in may…come check it out..Yeah those are the tightest tails i have ever cut…got lucky..not sure about the the creativity on them…have to work on that…But tight no need for saw dust…stoked..


----------



## terryR

Widdle, those tails are awesome! You have a great bench!

More info on the tool swap please…are you a member of The Guild, or another group? I'm desparate to find such a tool swap down south…


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## BrandonW

Widdle, I know Fullerton well. I would skateboard there on the weekends when I was in Jr High. I grew up in Placentia and Brea.


----------



## Mosquito




----------



## RGtools

It looks like the monolith from 2001 Space Odessy. You could play the them in your head and you will get what I mean.


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## mochoa

Nice!


----------



## chrisstef

Check out Mos gettin all Smitty with it.


----------



## Mosquito

There is a large wooden screw on there, and a huge hub as well… wonder where that came from ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

When I was leaving my apartment this morning, and looked over and saw the sun coming in the window hitting the bench and #45 I just had to take pictures.


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## mochoa

I thought that hub looked familiar Mos. So you were able to make it work?


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## Mosquito

"Make it work" in past-tense no, but I'm working on it. It's not too bad. I've been working on filing the bottom so it's perpendicular to the hole that's drilled in it for the screw. Once that's done I'm sure it'll work fine. There's a little wobble in it, but it's no worse than the one I made, so I'm more than happy with it, thanks


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nah,nah,nah,nah,nun nah,nah….getting Smitty wit it.

Widdle- doesn't have to be a roubo to be a handsome bench. But ya, those dovetails make your bench.

Stef- that shed full of lumber looks a lot like the one my fav lumber guy has. Only his is dirtier, and he has no idea what all he has in there.

Brandon- see, we so could start a middle-aged woodworker skate team. LJ Brigade….lol. Free plane for anyone who can ollie onto their workbench.


----------



## chrisstef

Dontcha mean roller blading team Red?


----------



## BrandonW

Lol, Red. I could probably only Ollie about a foot high now, but I'm still confident that I can do a kickflip-that stuff is like riding a bike.


----------



## chrisstef

Man i always wanted to be able to skate (thus my snarky coment above) but i never could. I rode a bike instead. Had a pretty sweet Mongoose.

Loser.


----------



## widdle

Crisstef…Venice skatepark is open from 5:00 am to 5:15 am to all bikers…come on down…Mongoose…


----------



## widdle

rgtools..good looking lumber, are you adding to an existing bench ?

Terry..No i am knot with any guild…They have an old tool swapmeet near me every 3 months..Would like to get a new/old #5..Woke up early for the last one..raced on down…no one there ...missed it by a week.yep..soo im charged to be on time for the next one in may,..

Brandon…Cool…Yeah..heard they just re opened a park out ther..may check it out..

Squito..Good lookin set up you got there..

big red..A roubo is most definatly soon..This thing should hold me over for a while , and i can figure out what i want in a new bench..Definatly want flush legs , no stretcher and no apron…
I'm in on the skate team …can still get coping on a good day..


----------



## chrisstef

As much as id love a trip to the west coast widdle the only thing im doin at 5:00 AM is checking the back of my eyelids for holes


----------



## mochoa

I think I was able to ollie three skateboards stacked up back in the day. But I was only able to pull it off once.


----------



## widdle

Christef…Good..One less mongoose in the kiddie bowl

Mauricio..Wow..thats no joke there..I prefer to keep all four grippy soft weels on warm pavement at this point…

ok what are we workin on..


----------



## OnlyJustME

I could never seem to keep a board under my feet for some reason. Gimme a hockey stick and pair of blades though and i'm game. I also went the bike route. neighbor built a nice quarter pipe and of course there were the wooded trails.


----------



## BrandonW

High school Brandon:


----------



## OnlyJustME

Now post all the pics of the face plants and groin shots. :0)


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## widdle

Gull wings…nice


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## BrandonW

Lucky I don't have any of those, OJM. I mostly hurt my ankles, and still today my right ankle can get hurt easily.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice Brandon! I've always been strong, but I've never had an ollie or vertical leap to brag about. Wuddyagonnado?

Ahh…we get off topic from time to time. I'm one of the worst culprits, but oh well. I say there's the "wood," and there's the "worker." We have a common love, but this site is made up of people. So it is what we make it.


----------



## DaddyZ

I guess this makes me Old but I had to go look it up…

Skateboarding lingo 
A glossary for the 'ollie' impaired

Air - Ride a skateboard into the air, land it, and continue on

Ankle biters - Skateboarding socks; also called "no-shows" or "low-cuts"

Bail - An intentional fall to avoid possible slam

Backside - The direction of a turn on an incline, meaning the backside of the body is facing the wall

Carve - To turn in a skateboard bowl with all four wheels on the surface

Concave - An inward turn

Coping - The material on the lip of a ramp used to grind, slide or bump

Deck - The laminated surface of a skateboard

Fakie -Going backwards

Fat - Big trick

Gap - The area between two riding surfaces over which skaters ollie

Grind - A trick done on any sharp lip where the truck comes in contact with the edge of the ramp

Grip Tape - The sandpaper-like tape with an adhesive back placed on the skateboard to provide a non-slip surface

Hang - Catch the back wheels or truck on coping as the board reenters the ramp

Half-pipe - A wooden ramp on which a skateboard is ridden

Launch Ramp - A kind of ramp that propels a skater into the air

Lip - The edge of any obstacle that a skateboarder rides

Manual - Balancing while riding a skateboard on two wheels

Nose - The forward part of the skateboard

Ollie - The basis for most skateboard tricks. The back foot smacks the tail of the board against the ground while the front foot pulls the board up into the air

Pivot - A trick where the truck touches the top of the lip, or coping for just a moment before reentry

Poser - Pretender; someone that dresses like a skateboarder but doesn't skateboard

Quarter-pipe - A ramp which is equal to one quarter of a 360 pipe

Rad - Cool

Ripper - A really good and consistent skater

Sick - Cool

Slam - A bad unexpected fall

Sweet - Cool

Tail - The back part of the skateboard

Tight - Cool

Toe Rail - The rail of the board on which the toe of the foot rests

Trucks - The two parts of the skateboard connecting the deck with the wheels

Transfer - Changing from rail to rail or ramp to ramp

Tweak - Bending or contorting the body and board during a skateboard maneuver

Vert Ramp - A half-pipe where the steepest section of the ramp is straight down

Translation from the first paragraph of the main story:

"This guy is good. He jumped over six stairs on his skateboard without falling down. Then he flipped his board over a large bush and performed a really cool turn. He followed with a quite difficult aerial trick and landed on a ramp. Then he tried to grab his board while jumping high in the air, but aborted the trick midway through." <@$p>

This list and translation was compiled with substantial help from Palo Verde School students Nik Killian, age 11, Max Minowitz, age 10, and various Web sites. - Daryl Savage

----------------------------------------


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## RGtools

*Widdle*...My existing craptacular but functional bench. I like to call him Roubo's ugly cousin.



http://lumberjocks.com/RGtools/blog/24176


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## Tugboater78

I just drove tractors growing up, with big noisy attachments with sharp blades on 45+ degree hills, that was enoigh thrill for me. Not forgetting walking into a field with a 1 ton angry black angus bull. And or carrying 2 5 gallon buckets into a pen with 20-30 hungry full grown pigs..


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## Leonard5

Very nice.


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## donwilwol

I just drove tractors growing up, with big noisy attachments with sharp blades on 45+ degree hills, …....and don't forget it was on wet slippery grass.


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## widdle

tractors and Bulls scare me….
rgtools..Thats a stout nice bench..I find fir a bit difficult to work with…some parts hard some soft…and splinters..


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## BillWyko

Accidental double post.


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## BillWyko

Sorry I haven't been around much, my father fell & broke his hip. I've made a little progress on the bench. In this pic it's just mocked up, no glue so far. Hopefully next week I can make time to glue it up


----------



## ksSlim

Thanks DaddyZ, Had my hooks into more than one of those bulls.


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## Boatman53

Sorry to hear that Humidor. I'm right there with you, my 90 year old dad has been in and out of the hospital since Christmas Eve. He's home now and ok for the moment but that could change just as fast.
Jim


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## Tugboater78

Wasnt always wet but was isually slippery!


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## donwilwol

it was always a treat, headed downhill with a kicker bailer and wagon, and you noticed the wagon passing you backwards about to spin the tractor.


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## chrisstef

I once got hit in the head with a horseshoe.


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## donwilwol

was the horseshoe hurt?


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## BillWyko

Thanks Boatman, best wishes to your dad too. They broke the mold on men from their time. Don't know one man their age that couldn't tackle anything that came at em. 
My installer set me straight the other day, his dad is no longer with us. I had said I "have" to go stay with my dad this weekend. He said "NO" you "GET" to go stay with your dad this weekend. A very profound statement, I thanked him for setting me straight. Again, the very best wishes for your dad & God bless.


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## WhoMe

widdle, you have a link for that old tool swap meet? One of these days I want to go to one just to see all the cool old tools.

Hmm, skateboarding… that list of terms was not even a glimmer in someones eye when I was riding. I rode my board everywhere. I think I have left more skin on the pavement at times than I had on my body. Skate boarding back then was barefoot and no shirts everywhere. Surfboard makers made skate boards too back then. Even broke the big toe bad enough to have pins put in it falling off a skate board ramp. Good memories…... Still have an old board with Bennett Pro trucks and I forgot the wheels.


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## widdle

Humidor ..What a great bench..looks like your on the home stretch…What is the material on the front apron…looks like nice stuff..

Whome…May 18th.".http://www.andersonplywood.com/swapmeet.htm":www.andersonplywood/swapmeet.htm


----------



## jordanp

I'm going to be starting my first real workbench build, considering my limited skill set I was planing on building a simple glued up 2×4 top with 4×4 legs and add vices and dog holes after completion.

Any thoughts or recomendations on construction or attaching the top to the legs?.


----------



## lysdexic

HM, I am with you on the parental unit. Mine is disappearing before my eyes.

I find the "Have to vs get to " distinction to be a very effective attitude adjuster. It is qutie universal and try to use it often.

i.e. - I GET to go to work today. A lot of people don't.


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## Mosquito

Scary part done… chop and leg have been drilled, and leg has been tapped. Now I have to cut the screw to size, glue it to the hub, and make the garter plate and parallel guide. Not sure what I'm going to do for parallel guide yet though.


----------



## terryR

Nice work, Mos! THAT scary task is holding up my bench build right now.  I've never drilled a 5" deep hole before, much less, perfectly square to the leg…oh my!

HM, those tails look sweet! Sorry to hear about your Dad.

...Short 'Dad' story…

My Dad retired from GM many years ago…then started a small antique shop. He would buy Louis 14th chairs missing one leg, recarve a replacement leg, and sell them for large profit! Anyhow, when I had back surgery, and was having a hard time with bills, Dad begged me to come work with him in the wood shop. Did I stop nursing in the ICU to make sawdust with my Dad? No. What a STUPID mistake!

Now…my Dad is long gone…I'm retired from nursing…and looking for a teacher in my wood shop. Irony?

I'm still kicking myself in the butt weekly for that bad decision…


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## lysdexic

Well, at least we now know where you getting your talent for shaping.


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## BillWyko

Thanks everyone, the little word change from have to, to get to, really put things in perspective. I'm in a box building contest right now that's over on Tuesday, once that's out of the way I can get a few hrs a day in the bench. Hopefully in a couple weeks I can have most of it done.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Going for the baileigh contest? Good Luck.


----------



## chrisstef

Ive been reading a bit today on work bench heights. Like most of you goons around here im a hybrid kinda guy (insert tranny joke here) leaning a bit more on the hand tool side of things. Ive read to measure from the floor to where your pinky ends, from the floor to the crease in your wrist and so on. So, if you will, sound off on your workbench height.

Current: 34" and im 5'9" (feels a bit high)
Future bench: 32"???


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## carguy460

Stef - I have no right to chime in here, as I am without a proper workbench. However, I will tell you that I'm hoping to build a workbench sometime soon, and I've been contemplating the same height question.

I've been working on an awful wall bench that was poorly designed…by me, a few years ago before I knew what woodworking really was. It is about 39.5" high at the end that I normally work (Right end of bench). The other end is probably 38 or so high (sloped garage floor). I am right at 5'9" and I can say that for hand work it sucks! Heavy planing sessions suck something awful…I'm amazed I can even push a plane with my bench that high…

I've been thinking about building my bench to start a little higher than the height of my dining table…I think its about 32" or so. I figure I can always cut some off the legs if I need to later! I'm guessing I'll end up around 30" after I work with the bench for awhile.

Take my thoughts with a grain of salt, as I've never worked on a decent bench…this is what I'm working with now…










Whatever you do, don't mount a bench to a wall, and don't stuff it in a corner if you plan to do any hand work at all…


----------



## WhoMe

Widdle, thanks for the link. Ill have to look into it. Any advice for a first timer. I'll just be a lookie-loo anyway. No needs and no money but have plenty of wants. ..lol. I will bring a drool cloth just in case.
Regarding bench height, I'm 5ft 7 or so and the work surfaces I use ( can't call them work benches) are all too high at 35"+ for any plane work to be comfortable. I do it but can't wait to build a proper workbench at about 32" high. If I need xtra height, I'll just build a portable moxon or some type of height enhancement device.


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## Tugboater78

Havent decided on height either, being 6'2 with "monkey arms" i can go fairly low, but i also had back surgwey 2.5 years ago and it gives me fits if im bent over too long. My current sawhorses setup is 31-2 inches tall and seems to low..even though its also where my knuckle extends.. so.. idk i will figure it out


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## sgmdwk

After 24 years working on top of my tablesaw or a Workmate topped with a piece of plywood, I am building a workbench. I am 6' tall and the bench will be 34" high.


----------



## roman

oh ha

ya

you betcha




























temperance isn't easily won

most men who think they can make a joiners bench for a living have much to learn

I would suggest a simple saw horse


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## widdle

5'10'..bench is @ 33 1/2"....
Who me advice ? Tito's tacos across the stret is pretty good..
Moron..Whatcha got dog ?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

For me, 5'10'..bench is @ 34".


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## widdle

Smitty's is straight solid oak…mine is 3/4" rip strips….but close in height.. nice..


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## lysdexic

Stef,

I'd really pay attention to the pinky knuckle (metacarpal phalageal joint). We all have different morphologies. I am 6' 2 33/64" tall and my bench is 34 1/2" tall. I could have gone a little higher but I knew that I was going to make other work surfaces for joinery.

The Moxon vise is at 41" high and my shop table is 38"

Another guide is to stand straight and the optimal height is where your palm will lie flat on the work surface.


----------



## Tugboater78

Aye lysdexic, i was thinking 34 would be a good height, guess i can make my top and put it on mu saw horses and see if its comfortable. But i gotta make a top first!


----------



## waho6o9

I couldn't figured out the height of the bench either so I built it to the 
all those different parameters and didn't like them. Ended up with one
re purposed bench at around 33.5 high and I'm about 5'8''

YM will definitely vary. Maybe practice at different heights until you
find a comfortable range and build accordingly.

Good luck my friend.


----------



## Boatman53

I'm 5' 10" and my bench is 32" high. I think it is the same height or a little lower than my old unisaw. Also what you build and what tools you use will have an influence. If you only use wooden planes you might want a bench lower because the grip is different than a metal plane. I don't do much planing of boards on the face, infact I don't do much with flat square boards at all so don't listen to me.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jim, excellent point on the woodies and/or transitionals and a lower bench height.


----------



## superdav721

workbench height


----------



## BrandonW

I like how Scott gave his height to the 64th of the inch. Talk about accuracy.

I'm 6' 1" and my bench is 33 3/4" tall. I'm pretty happy with the height of it.


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## Mosquito

I'm 5'6" and my bench is 33". I too plan to have a benchtop moxon for more joinery work, as it's a bit low for that, but quite nice for planning.

Might also be worth mention, that mine is primarily a hand tool bench.


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## jap

I'm 6' 2 1/2" and use 36" high bench which is a little high for planing and a little low for detailed work.


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## chrisstef

Thanks for all the insight fellas. Its hard to go out and try different height benches because, well, we all hang out here and not in each other shops. Ill do some measuring and some more pondering as to the subject. Quite possibly check out the height of my saw horses for comparison sake.

Im going to leave Scotty's "to the 64th" comment alone because the information was so solid.

Jim you brought up a good point with the inluencing tools. Something to think about.

Im really trying not to over analyze this bench thing. Its just a clamping surface i try and tell myself, but the less time i have working wood the more time i have to think about it lol. I need some shop time lol.


----------



## mochoa

Stef, my bench is 33.5" and I'm 6'2"

I went with the Schwarz guideline which I think uses the pinky knuckle.

So far I like it, there are times when I wish it was a little bit taller but I think there are more times when I'm glad its low.

I'm glad its low when:
-Rough work, flattening boards. A low bench encourages you to bend your legs and get more of your body into it. 
-I'm flattening the sole of a plane, I can really get good downward pressure on the plane and it seems to get flat faster
-Spoke shaving/Draw knifing something sticking up out of one of the vises. 
-Drilling holes with brace and bit. These are long and would be hard to use on a tall bench. 
-Using old wooden planes. If I'm doing a lot of rough work my old fore plane gives my back a rest and fells like a dream. 
-Chiseling, the low bench lets you get your weight down on the chisel.

I wish it was higher when:
-Doing a lot of detail work. 
-Sawing. I haven't done any DT's on it yet though so I cant opine there, but its probably a little low for that.

So I think there are a lot more advantages to the lower bench then there are disadvantages.


----------



## BrandonW

So I think there are a lot more advantages to the lower bench then there are disadvantages.

Well especially when you can make an additional bench for joinery (if you have the space), or can make a moxon vise or a bench-on-a-bench for joinery.


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## mochoa

True, thats on my list to make.


----------



## GMatheson

I'm 5-10 and my bench is 34". I made it on the higher side because I figured it would be easy to chop and inch off the legs if I found it was too high but so far it's working good for me. I plan on putting a nice thick mat on the floor in front of the bench soon so that will make the bench feel a tad bit shorter too I reckon.


----------



## terryR

Stef, go with the palms flat down on the bench top for a height measurement. I'm 5'10" and my bench is 33" tall. And I have an inch thick rubber mat on the floor. Great height for me to use hand planes. Too high for rough cutting boards…I need a saw bench asap. Too low for cutting joinery…need to build a moxxon.

But, for general layout, drawing, sipping coffee, chisel work, sanding odd pieces, assembly, etc it seems the perfect height! 

Although, these shop louvers I'm buildimg now, really highlight the disadvantages of the tool well…may have to build a box that sits flush in the well for some projects…


----------



## bondogaposis

My new bench is 32" and I'm 6'0" tall. My old bench was 34" and it was too tall for hand planing. I made it work but the lower bench is much easier on my back and arms. I haven't had a chance to do any joinery on the new bench so I can't say how I'll like the lower height for that. I suspect that a Moxon vise will be in my future but I have a few other irons in fire at the moment.


----------



## chrisstef

First hand advice and after thoughts are invaluable in my book, thanks for all the opinions gang. I plan on repurposing some of the baby's floor mats once hes done with the whole "watch me tip over" phase so it may add another 3/4" to my height.


----------



## DaddyZ

With all the debate on height makes me wonder why dosen't someone make thier Bench Legs Adjustable

Maybe Bench @ 30" with Shims under the Legs to get you to the right Height, that way if you want it lower just pul a couple shims out.

Note: My bench is an old Cabinet from the company I work for.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Instead of using shims use the adjustable feet like they use on pool tables. Very solid since a pool table weighs so much. I was actually contemplating this before, since i'm not sure what height to make it myself and 2, my shop floor is so uneven what feels solid and flat in one spot moved over 2 inches will wobble like babystef.


----------



## lysdexic

Another important factor to remember Stef…...

Are you going to work in your Stilettos or your pumps?


----------



## OnlyJustME

Depends if he has the pearl necklace on or not.


----------



## chrisstef

Lol Lys … well played fella, very well played. Does Redwing make a 4" heel? If so, im in and ill pull a Bondo on the new bench when im done.

OJM - the adjustable feet idea is a solid one. Im sure my floor dips and dives all over the place, i figured id just shim it. Kids got the Cabo Wobble down pat, hes so close to crawling its funny. "Get over here ball, thats it, im coming to get you." Wobble, wobble, faceplant, barrel roll.


----------



## chrisstef

Its all about the accesories fellas.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I can't argue with the statement, stef, but I do have to wonder: who brings binoculars when ice fishing? Oh, and it looks lke your fly is open.


----------



## chrisstef

Crap Smitty, i cant believe you spotted that. Please dont turn me in. Im not licensed to sell hot dogs in the state of Connecticut.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

How 'bout Lil' Smokies?










Oh, and it was hard to spot. ;-)


----------



## chrisstef

Not even the cheddar ones bro, but now you get the idea behind the binoculars 

Trust me, advertising is a tough gig.


----------



## DaddyZ

Hey Now!!! I just Ate some Smokies last Night for dinner!!!

Don't dis the smokies !!!


----------



## terryR

I wonder what that sign says behind the ice fishin dude?

'Stay off the ice'?
'Watch for Bears while fishin'?


----------



## chrisstef

"No trolling with lil smokies"


----------



## ksSlim

RedwWng does make 2+1/2" cowboy heels on their spider killers.


----------



## widdle

Darn..forgot to figure in the 3/8 mat….mabye i can just add 3/8 masonite to the top of the bench…


----------



## widdle

Any thoughts on what to do the end detail…radius , chamfer, square ??? Im thinkin simple is better…top is a bit busy to say the least ..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's an easy one.


----------



## BrandonW

Smitty what's that on your vise chop? Leather? Felt? It looks green.

Widdle, that is one huge vise chop for such a small vise. Why'd you make it that big?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

B, it's leather. Scarfed the material from an overstuffed love seat that was headed for landfill. I used a couple strips of the same stuff as strop material, too.


----------



## widdle

Smitty…i like the green,,,What do the kerfs in the chop do for you..?

Brandon…The front or the rear ? they are both just oversized chunks at this point…Not sure what to do…I figure starting big is better than small…what do you suggest..


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Widdle, hard to see from the angle of the pic, but it's a large bead. Just eye candy (modest tho it may be).










The chop got it's own entry here.


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## chrisstef

I think BW's talking about the end vise Widdle. At that length, if you put something off to one side or the other, its going to want to rack on ya because its so long. Id be inclined to use about half the length that you have on there now. Maybe 3-4 " outside each edge of your vice.


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## BrandonW

Yup, Stef is picking up what I'm putting down.

Smitty, I thought that bead was done with the 45, but that's a pretty cool beading tool you have there. I like the green leather.


----------



## widdle

Christef..yes i agree…and i think it will rack regardless…although i think its gonna be a huge upgrade from the original… Gonna leave it full length for a bit…can always shorten…Trying to committ for know on the ends of the chops themselves ?
Smitty…i like the green..thinking about painting the front vise purple to match my doors..


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It took a #45 and the #66 to get that bead done, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. 

As a former owner of a puple front door, widdle, I certainly appreciate what you got going on with those doors. Beautiful!


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## widdle

smitty…nice…You dont happen to have any left over sofa do ya ?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I do, and I'll happily share. send me a PM with address and size needed and it'll be on the way. Brandon, same offer for you!


----------



## widdle

If you could wrap that sexy beader in green leather…were good…


----------



## Tugboater78

I got some leather from local quarter store.. they had an old leather Bomber jacket, i had just donated a bunch of clothes so they gave me the jacket.  have yet use it for anything though.


----------



## donwilwol

Elves like green.


----------



## waho6o9




----------



## Tugboater78

I likey the green elf


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## BigRedKnothead

Missed a lot of action this weekend. I'm sure I've told you guys, but I'm 6'6" with a bad back, and ridiculous wingspan, so I made my bench 37". I like it so far. My upcoming joinery bench will be in the 40's. I figured to error on the tall side. It's easier to trim a leg than add to it. But trimming the legs of a 500lb bench would be interesting. 
Got a couple walls on put on on my shed today. One step closer to the joinery bench build;-)


----------



## WhoMe

Widdle, thanks for the advice. Love me some tacos. The more authentic and spicy the better. UNFORTUNATELY, I will probably have to hit the August tool meet. My father is going to be in town before and after the 16th almost any free time will be spent with him. 
Maybe by august, I will have some $$ burning in my pocket.

The workbench height discussion is really interesting. 
Love the green elf. It can work in my shop anytime.


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## lysdexic

I'm sorry but the elf just doesn't do it for me. I just can't get past the wrinkle in her right stocking. Totally blows it. :^)


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## BrandonW

There you go, Scotty:


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## ksSlim

You folks seen Schwarz blog lately?

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/workbenches/schwarz-workbenches/the-milkmans-workbench-in-use

Milkman's workbench.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Cute little bench, I like. Come up with a base for it so the surface is raised from a 33" (plus or minus) high workbench and you have the makings of a great joinery bench / Moxon hybrid.


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## terryR

Ooooh, I like the milkman bench! I could just clamp it to my outdoor bench when the temps are outta control inside the steel shop. Time to renew my prescription to FWW!

Ooops! My bench height was stated improperly! My brain remembered the height as 33", but a tape measure says 36"! Still, I find it comfy for hand tool use…

My goodness, that elf has the longest pair of legs I've seen in a while! I bet she could sit on my 36" tall bench without dragging those high heels on the shavings on the floor. Or did Brandon fix those, too? Hey Brandon, think you could shorten her skirt a little bit?


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## ksSlim

I liked it too! My portable 36 X 18 bench has no vise just clamps to hold stuff.
Might have to make one for out of the shop work.

Might even work in the basement when its too cold in the shop.


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## chrisstef

What would you fellas call this vice?










Its kinda cool and very reasonably priced on my local CL. I just cant see how i would mount it to a workbench. I dont see any dogs and i dont see bolt holes. Is it a machinists vice?


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## Boatman53

Chris… I see a blue question mark instead of a vise. Hope it links up later. I love vises.
Jim

Edit: I see it now, it's used on a drill press or milling machine.


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## Boatman53

Terry, that portable bench is in Popular Woodworking now, current issue.
Jim


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## BrandonW

Stef, that looks like a drill press vise.


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## chrisstef

Ye my thought too Jim. I had a hair brained idea of converting it to a wagon vice. Hmmm. For $40 might be worth an experiment?


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## ksSlim

Got a couple of those machinist vises at my house. $10 at local tag sales (garage sales) for Easterners.
Usually have some damage good for a restore. Leave one at drill press and one on back side of bench.

Great for holding thin metal or wood.


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## lysdexic

Thanks Brandon. Now I can see that she is quite an attractive female.


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## Mosquito

hey 'Stef, if you want a LV shoulder vise screw, let me know ;-)


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## chrisstef

You got it Mos, i might take you up on that offer once i get a bit closer to fabrication of the bench.


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## redSLED

Now in my 3rd month (re)designing my first real woodworking bench (i.e., still reading about other peoples' benches).

I'm leaning toward 35" height because:
- I don't do much hand planing but perhaps I will in 15+ years
- it feels like the right height for most of my work which is about 20%/80% hand/machine tools 
- it will serve as my both my electric planer's and portable table saw's outfeed table - again 35" feel about right
- it will be high enough to accommodate an air compressor and vacuum plus drawers underneath the top
- I expect my son to inherit my bench one day, and expect he will think like me and therefore will find the 35" bench height feels about right


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## chrisstef

Here's a pic of the building where i scored the bench timbers from.










The new wood framed portion you see is an addition to the original brick building adding another floor to the existing building.


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## waho6o9

I built benches at the same height for my table saw and it works

well. The added area for ripping sheet goods comes in handy.

Off the truck on to the portable bench, rip and repeat.


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## TerryDowning

The best advice I've read regarding bench height is to make it taller to start with. Make sure you leave room at the bottom of the legs to cut down if desired at a later time. It's always easier to cut off than to add on.


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## Sylvain

Mc Guyre at "the English woodworker" spoke recently about bench height.
The height recommended by Paul Sellers for an average man happens to coincide with what is recommended by people from "health and safety at work".


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## RGtools

A fellow LJ selling a great bench.

The link to the ad


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## redSLED

^ Beautiful beast. I love the 1 big drawer design.


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## redSLED

"Mc Guyre at "the English woodworker" spoke recently about bench height.
The height recommended by Paul Sellers for an average man happens to coincide with what is recommended by people from "health and safety at work"."

I will have to humbly disagree. There is no such thing as an average man. Same goes with average income, average car, etc.


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## superdav721

bench pins shipped this morning


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## BrandonW

Can't wait to get mine, Dave!


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## pastahill

Nice, a big German Ulmia made from beech and almost new. Very expensive, if you buy it new.


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## mochoa

Sled, I read the McGaguire blog. I think he had some good points, no matter what your bench height it wont be perfect for every task.

I'm excited for you guys getting the forged pins! Those are going to be sweet.


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## AnthonyReed

I wonder if Al ever got his Ikea bench put together. Those instructions can be tough and the provided allen wrenches often strip out.


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## chrisstef

Ha! ^


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Five posts in the last 60 days for the Bertha-man. I think the Ikea bench has gotten the best of him and he's too embarrased to ask for help…


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## chrisstef

I bet he never got out of the store … Al loves free samples.


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## GMatheson




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## BrandonW

13106 posts in 841 days-- I think he overdid it. Poor Al.


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## BTimmons

Ikea's reputation for horrible furniture is well deserved. But those Swedish meatballs and lingonberry sauce are worth the drive by themselves.


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## Sylvain

As we say in French :
"comparaison n'est pas raison".
The fact that the average income has no meaning in many countries does'nt mean that the statistical notion of average man has no meaning.









Was I average for my generation? More or less. Am i still average? Probably not because younger generations are taller.
To avoid futher discussion about average, let's reformulate :
Paul Sellers said :
"All of my benches at the workshop are 38" high. That suits me as mister average height but my friend Matt at 6'4" finds it too low, but not the 5" discrepancy between him and me. He likes the bench to be at 40". You can make the bench taller, try it for a week and cut some off the legs if you feel doubtful at all. My 38" bench seems to suit everyone between 5'4 and 6'0". Most men and women fall within that range." 
I have to add that, if I understood well, he does rough dimensioning with machines. He uses metal planes (and generally not on thick slabs I guess).
There is always the solution to use a grating for some more heavy work.


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## AnthonyReed

I am a short and very demented form of average.


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## RGtools

I think its easier to say that the action on bench height is somewhere between the knuckle on your pinky joint when you hold your arms at your sides and your belt buckle. Where in that range depends on how you work.

Power, move it higher. (but not higher than your tablesaw)
Hand, move it lower.
Steel planes, higher, 
Wood planes, lower.
Bigger work, Lower.
Small work, Higher.

Build the bench somewhere in that range and it will do everything for you, not perfectly, but it will be servicable enough at every task that it won't be annoying.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well, took the first step toward my upcoming joinery bench. This ugly old beater got demoted to the shed I'm building. Oh Lordy, the amount of dust and shavings on/behind that bench from the past 5 years of woodworking. At least I was smart enough to get it in there before I put up the 4th wall. It never would've fit through the door.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Nice! I'm highly anticipating seeing your joinery bench build.


----------



## chrisstef

Good thought moving it before the final wall went it. I can only imagine what im gonna find underneath my bench once she gets moved. "lookin back on the track … "


----------



## mochoa

Nice! looking forward to seeing that come together Red.


----------



## Tugboater78

Git r dun, bigred. CAnt wait to get home and make my building into some kinda shop. Gotta get all the scrap lumber out from the build first though.


----------



## widdle

Red..That looks fun..how bigs the shed ?
Christef that project you posted a few days back looked like a beast as well


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## chrisstef

Widdle - yea that was one of the projects that pays the bills, not for fun. Its part of an 11 acre development with 15 new buildings and the complete gut and remodel of a 12,000 sqft building where the VA used to do all kinds of weird testing. About 35 different subs on the job and over 150 workers. We were just doing the demo and asbestos.

And for your viewing pleasure, very NSFW language, here's a link to a sorority sister's rant to her boring sisters. I laughed my a$$ off …. http://gawker.com/5994974/the-most-deranged-sorority-girl-email-you-will-ever-read


----------



## mochoa

hahaha, great read Stef, my favorite was "c*nt punt" LOL.


----------



## BrandonW

There's also this video on Funny or Die: Michael Shannon Reads the Insane Delta Gamma Sorority Letter .


----------



## chrisstef

agreed Maur, that's going into my urban dictionary just below clown's wig.

You know im about to watch that vid BW. Thanks.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Stef - Outstanding.

Brandon - Icing.

Thanks fellas!

P.S. What is SOR?: "and I don't give a f-k if you *SOR* me, I WILL F---G ASSAULT YOU."


----------



## chrisstef

Definitely the whip cream on that tasty sundae BW. Thank you for that. Every Wednesday needs entertainment like that.

And now back to your regularly scheduled programming ....


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The shed is 10'x12'. Last year the neighbor and I did the grading, tie wall, and cement pad. I'm gonna put big ol barn trusses on it to maximize storage. I admit, railroad ties are ugly, but I get em for free..sooo.

As for the joinery bench, I think I've got that design narrowed down in my big red melon. I'm just trying to decipher a plan of attack for my little shop renovation this summer. Think it's gonna go something like this:
- finish shed, move everything non-woodworking related into shed
- clean and paint shop white. No more dungeon!
- build a joinery bench with a good vice for dovetails and lots of storage
- tool storage solutions, out with the pegboard, french cleat system with tills etc.

All new shop stuff will be made of white oak and walnut. Maybe some plywood on the cases. We'll see how far the cash from my last commission lasts. If I run out of dough, I'll have to mix another commission in there.


----------



## AnthonyReed

A man with a plan!


----------



## mochoa

Hey guys, here is the finish of those chairs I was showing yall pictures of.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Love em Maur. Your kids have spoiled booty's.

Ha! I forgot I have to squeeze lumber rack in there somewhere;-)


----------



## redSLED

Building your house around your workbench - that is the smack down winner.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Funny you should say that. Recently when some friends were checking out my shop, my toddler says, "Yup, dis is where my daddy lives. He lives here."


----------



## widdle

red..Nice…Thats what im into right now..but got impatient and started the shop before the shed…Soo i got p od neighbors cause i got a metal storage container tn the driveway,,,Got tools to outfit a full crew and house…and dont even want to see askilly in the shop…But hard to part with..








maricio
Nice stools there ..lots a work shaping those legs without a lathe…Doin a bit of that myself right..fun though..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ah for cryin out loud. Have the day off and woke up to two inches of snow on my shed project. Thought I would be safe in May. Oh well. Gotta love the midwest.

widdle- Your shop looks really nice….minus the purple doors;-)


----------



## mochoa

Wow nice shed/shop builds going on there Red and Widdle. I wish I lived in a neighborhood where that was possible. I hate homeowners associations with all their rules.


----------



## BrandonW

Mauricio, you could build the shop on my property. I have plenty of space and I'll let you use it sometimes after its built.


----------



## AnthonyReed

^Mauricio you have a fine and generous friend there in Brandon.

EDIT: Snow in May sucks; sorry to hear it BRK.


----------



## mochoa

wow Brandon, you have a heart of gold! Thanks! I'm on my way over with the cement truck.


----------



## waho6o9

Building a shop? How cool is that?

I guess the marking gauges are finished, you guys are quick.


----------



## chrisstef

Snow … in May … Id be dangling off a bridge. Might hit 80 up here in CT today. Hope you didn't put those mittens away yet Red.


----------



## widdle

Timberframe party at Brandon's..im down..Its 75 outhere and got the ca;; the surf is pumping…Annoyed…would rather drill dog holes….strange…


----------



## Tugboater78

I am pretty fast at framing, lemme get off this floating workhorse!


----------



## widdle

Are you saying your on a tugboat right now ?


----------



## Mosquito

Red, snow in may does suck… be glad you don't live in SE MN. Narrowly skipped out on that one here…
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2013/05/02/weather/may-snow-total


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I know Mos. This should be melted off by tomorrow. Guess I should feel lucky. My family back in CO have about 10" as well. Been a wild spring.

Maur- HOA's blow. I have friends who can't even have a small vegetable garden. Forget that business. We live in the county. I don't have any intention of living in city limits again.


----------



## lysdexic

HOA's suck! It is like: "Hey, move into our neighborhood and we will restrict your freedom, choices and make you appear just like everyone else. " That disturbs me.

Yep, I have an HOA. Kinda. Hate it. Its expensive as well.


----------



## terryR

Wow, that sucks you guys cannot build on your own land…I hate that part of society that expects us all to look the same…

Bench related:

Is it proper to drill dog holes at the very end of a bench build? I'm using the heck out of the unfinished bench, and already have a pair of hold downs and some fancy Veritas Wonder dogs. Can I drill the holes now? Please? 

I'm working on the leg vise, I promise! But the leg vise is secondarily important to cool air flow in the shop, so I'm focused on these louvers this week…photos when I can get the tech to work again…


----------



## Mosquito

HOA's are bad? You should try renting 

-

*Terry* I'd be inclined to say not to do it… and the reason I say that is because then you'll be like me, and have a usable bench that you keep pushing off the completion of lol

Speaking of, I've got the wooden screw done with the groove for the garter plate. Just need to finish up the tweaks to the hub, make the garter plate, the parallel guide, and drill a hole in the back leg…


----------



## Tugboater78

Yeah im on the boat right now..and from what i see of the weather..im glad i will be off here by this time next week… all yhat snow..and 3-4 inches of rain in the areas we roam.. the river be a raisin.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Terry- I drilled mine as soon as I had the vises on. Just be conscious of your layout.

Ah screw it. It's melting fast. I'm gonna go slosh around with framing nailer.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Yeah Terry, i've got a powder room that's been almost done for 2 years now. All it needs is a drywall patch in the ceiling, the base board, and some paint but it is functional so i haven't finished it.

I'm not even part of an HOA but there is one down the street and i think i still get trouble from them. I say i think because i believe some one complains to the county and every once in a while we get notices stating that our "yard is looking trashy" or the "firewood has to be up on something off the ground even if it's just a pallet". Let me think about that one. i have to put wood up off the ground on a pallet that is made of what? yup wood. UUUUMMMMMM DUHHHH Don't think the county would give a rats @$$ if there wasn't a complaint unless the inspector passes by to go home.

Didn't we fight a world war to end this type of tyranny? Some dic - tator telling you how you have to live and what you can and can not do? Now it's a "government" instead one person so it's ok? It's a shame so many people have no idea what the important things in life are. Just worried about how life looks on the outside. Don't care what jimmy is going through at school as long the grass is trimmed and the bushes pruned and no stone out of place.

If i want to have a bench in the front yard i should be allowed to and painted whatever darn color i want.


----------



## BrandonW

OJM, they just dont want your wood on the bottom to get damp. Very nice of them.


----------



## DaddyZ

I kinda like getting my wood damp


----------



## widdle

looks like nicely oiled ipe..

Can we get a sound off on dog hole spacing…..analysis paralysis…
tugboater….Ahoy…


----------



## mochoa

Mine were 4" apart.


----------



## AnthonyReed

How far from the edge Mauricio?


----------



## RGtools

As close as you can get them without weakening the bench: less movement in the vise that way. 2.5"-3" spacing is pretty good.


----------



## widdle

Sounds about right…have to look forward to a tail vise next time…im gonna be racking big time..lol


----------



## BigRedKnothead

OJM- Have you been reading "Anarchist's Tool Chest" lately? hehe;-)


----------



## OnlyJustME

No Red, I actually haven't read that book yet. 
Why?


----------



## TechRedneck

You should space the dog holes based on the reach of the vice.

I put mine right down the middle of the bench. One of these days I will put another row closer to the edge.










I used a bit and brace, it was better and faster than a forsner bit believe it or not. Make sure you clamp a spoiler board underneath to prevent tearout.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

OJM- I was just teasing because we got you fired up about the government and stuff. It is a good book. Schwarz contends there's a little Anarchist deep inside most craftsman. Here's a blog I certainly relate to:

http://blog.lostartpress.com/2011/11/29/anarchy-in-the-schwarz-household/


----------



## widdle

Thanks tech..Great bench


----------



## bandit571

Uased a "Saw Bench" today









Since I had a 12' long 1×12 to break down. Hey, 75 degrees out, with a nice breeze. Beats a damp, old, Dungeon Shop, don't it?









Bench height not the greatest, though…..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

My dog holes are 6" on center. I wouldn't go any further than that. Course it depends if your end vise is quick release etc. I would've puffed up my guns with the brace, but I didn't have any decent bits at the time. Spade bit made pretty quick work of it.


----------



## lysdexic

Chris, I see you changed your signature quote.

Sorry Red. I couldn't resist.


----------



## lysdexic

2" from the edge. Closer is better IMO.


----------



## widdle

Great Bench and good info lysdexic…I think im forced to be at least 3'+ away..

13/4 horse routers are









not happy with 3" bits incase any of you were wondering…


----------



## OnlyJustME

Gotta take small bites with that one widdle, but even that router can eventually eat an elephant. lol

On big projects my boss would always say "How do you eat an elephant? One small bite at a time."


----------



## terryR

OK, you guys talked me out of drilling holes for now! I finished shaping the little parallel guide yesterday, so all the pieces of the leg vise are ready to go…just need some mortices and glue.

Hay, OJM…tell 'em the BOTTOM layer of wood came from a pallet…no worries!

Out here on our 150 acre farm, peer pressure keeps our yard looking nice! Whenever the 500+ acre farms on either side of us mow the grass, it's time for me to mow as well. Plus, any time I see a snake in the mowed portion, I mow again the next day!  I don't like snakes.


----------



## chrisstef

150 acres … sheesh and I complain about mowing my 3/4 acre lol.

Fingers crossed for a little planer time this weekend. Its been 2 weeks since ive done anything in the shop and im startin to get the shakes. Need sawdust.


----------



## mochoa

My dog holes are 3" from the edge, that's just how it worked out with the wagon vise.

Actually my dog holes are about 4" apart, I decided where the first one and the last one would go then I used dividers to space the rest out evenly.

I love Tech's bench add on. So cool.

Red, I had missed that blog, interesting read, I agree with a lot of what he says, not all of it… Especially the part about debt. I havent read that book yet, I need to check it out.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Right Maur, Chris a little more extreme than I am, but I admire him. I'm big on self-suffiency. My friends and i process all our meat etc. 
The debt thing, I got into the Dave Ramsey thing in my late twenties and paid off everything but my house. Worked a lot of 60+ hour weeks on the railroad, but it was worth it. That's a lot of the reason I can do as much woodworking as I do now. 
Maloof was another woodworker with that philosophy. He bought tools and added on to his house along the way. Cash only.


----------



## Mosquito

My dog holes are 2" from the front and 4" apart. My wagon vise has a travel of about 5.5" or so.

I also have pencil lines between the wagon and the front of the bench for where the 2 extremes are (furthest forward, and furthest out). I'm thinking I might cut out a shallow groove and put a contrasting wood in to keep it permanent. I've found it nice to be able to lay a board even with various dogs to see which one I can use best.


----------



## mochoa

Red, we're Dave Ramsey fans to! Changed my life man, and I'm not joking. Before we had kids and had double income we payed off everything but the house. Now we can afford to have my wife stay home with the kids. Wouldnt have been possible otherwise. The budget is tight but it works.

I wish we could pay off the house, in that blog (I think it was in the responses to he comments) he talks about paying off the house and its what gave him the freedome to live the way he is living now. Thats a game changer.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

There ya go Mauricio. My wife stays home, we drive old toyotas….and we're happy. Every once in a while I get a "must be nice" from people when they see my shop, bench, furniture…. well, that's how we did it. 
Should have the house paid off in my early 40's. Might have to invite you guys to the mortgage burning party;-)

Sorry, back to benches. I've been considering drilling holes in the front edge of my top. Sometimes the deadman is to low for a narrow board. Just gotta find an aesthetic way to do it.


----------



## mochoa

Amen Red!

Is there something you could rig up for your deadman that would hold a board up higher? Why not use a hold fast in the deadman that clamps a board up at the edge of the top?


----------



## ksSlim

Long neck "hold fast" anyone? how would we do it?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Red, if you have one of the Veritas clamps or the #203 from Stanley, it's a matter of clamping a block that raised the stuff up to working height.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Mighty fine adaptation Bandit. Whatcha making?

"I also have pencil lines between the wagon and the front of the bench for where the 2 extremes are (furthest forward, and furthest out). I'm thinking I might cut out a shallow groove and put a contrasting wood in to keep it permanent." - I really like that idea Mos. An accent with utility.

BRK - Every time you apologize for typing off topic thoughts it hurts my soul a little. Let it roll man.


----------



## mochoa

Red, I'm pretty sure its against the laws of Feng Shui to put holes on the front edge of your bench top.


----------



## BrandonW

Diese Bank, which is a mix between power and hand tool uses, has dog holes in the front which are used for edge planing.


----------



## lysdexic

BRK and Maur….antoher fan of Ramsey to a degree. I dig the concept of self reliance as well but you can take it to far.

Division of labor. At first I was overly enthusiastic about doing everything for myself. Then realized that I can make more money working than the $75 that i saved installing a new outlet. I dont want to even consider the opportunity cost of building my own workbench or even woodworking in general. Those are a labor of love.

Still, no debt except mortgage, old Toyotas, wife at home…...... Mistress in the Caymans ;^)


----------



## Mosquito

I'm too young, and apparently not academic enough to be debt free lol Thank you college…


----------



## mochoa

Old Toyotas and Hondas are key.


----------



## OnlyJustME

I use an old Honda. That lawn mower never breaks down and is easy to maintain. Doesn't get me to the market and back very fast but sips gas so goes far on one tank.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

How I support narrow material, and holes centered 4 1/4" from the front edge of the benchtop.


----------



## lysdexic

Nice Smitty. Inspirational even.


----------



## mochoa

What about a square piece of wood with a dowel in it to fit in a hole in the deadman. Kind of like the home made dogs people make. You can make it so each face of the square is offset by different distances from the dog so it has 4 different "settings".

That or spend the money on one of those fancy clamps….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

(Gloat)- I paid $5 ea. for a pair of #203s, $10 shipping.


----------



## lysdexic

This is how I hold a thin board on the front edge of my bench.


----------



## BrandonW

You suck Smitty for getting those so cheap.

I have a Ryobi version:


----------



## donwilwol

I paid $1.99


----------



## mochoa

Somehow I knew, before I even clicked on the link that it was going to be a smart aas comment from Scott? LOL. Good one man. Dude put a coaster under that beer.

I like the Ryobi and HF versions. Don you remind me I need to dig my broken clamp out of the scrap bin.


----------



## BrandonW

Scott, isn't that what your kids are for?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I win!


----------



## RGtools

*Smitty*. I think I need those. Does the hook fit through a 3/4" hole?


----------



## BrandonW

A 1" hole, unfortunately.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

1" holes, RG. That's a drawback for some.

Working on the tool cabinet…


----------



## AnthonyReed

^ :-D


----------



## superdav721

If you guys will give me a bit. I am working on forged hold downs. I will make the same offer here. They will be a bit cheaper before I start selling them.


----------



## lysdexic

Ryan,

The #203 requires 1" holes and not deep ones. I modified my deadman to accept the #203. Some considered it a mistake.


----------



## lysdexic

Dave,

I'll buy a hold down but it must have a logo.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ what scottyByo says…


----------



## chrisstef

Stef thirds the OG ScottyB's statement but im gonna need at least 2


----------



## widdle

can you do a dowel with a mortise and a wedge…


----------



## superdav721

cool


----------



## Tugboater78

Those 203s are nice too bad ebay sellers want a mint..maybe ill find wild ones and tame them.


----------



## mochoa

Dave I'm in!


----------



## TechRedneck

Don

That $1.99 clamp is an awesome idea.


----------



## BrandonW

Dave, I'm definitely in.  I just got the pin in the mail today and will get some pics tonight!


----------



## superdav721

Good to hear Mauricio.
Glad you got it Brandon!
Guys the pins are just waxed, they will rust. If you want to keep the traditional finish just heat them up lightly and melt some bees wax or candle wax on them. I rounded the end a bit to hopefully not damage your benches during use. I left the shaft smooth with no hammer marks for ease of use. They would have looked better hammered all the way down but that would interfere with the use.


----------



## terryR

Dave, I would also like a pair of hold downs…any price! 
+1 to wanting a logo or your name stamped into them!
That makes 'em worth more to me than Gramercy, Veritas, or any I've seen! 

Can't wait to see the bench pin…our bees made a chunk of wax on the front of the hive mistakenly…it's going on that forged pin…


----------



## superdav721

You know bee keeping was a job that most old woodworker had. The wax was used in so many aspects of there work. The honey was a +


----------



## BigRedKnothead

You guys were busy while I was playing choo choo. Well, I know I've seen a pic of a roubo that had some dog holes on the front edge of the top, but darned if I can find it now. (note: if you google "schwarz roubo" you will find a pic of my bench, as well as some other LJs, crazy) Nevertheless, I don't think I can bring myself to drill em. It would be very convenient to just move my peg up to one of those holes, but I can't get past the aesthetics.

Maur- like your idea about a long shopmade dog if a guy doesn't want to buy or accommodate a #203. I almost brought up shopmade dogs when were discussing dog hole spacing. You should be able to see my dogs in pic below. Because my end vise is not quick release, I often rotate my dogs a 1/4 turn. See, my dogs are about 2" one way, and 3" the other, I can close the clamping space a couple inches with a quick turn of one dog or both. This is quicker than cranking the ol vise in the heat of battle;-)
So…maybe I'll just make a bigger do for deadman for now.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

SuperDave Benchpin Received! Film later, but it's gonna be Sweeeet!


----------



## BrandonW

Here are a couple of shots of the bench pin in action:



















Thanks again, Dave! The pin is pretty sweet.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sweet! I probably should've ordered one. But I hadn't seen Dave's yet, so I wasn't quite sure what you guys were talking about.


----------



## Airframer

Dave.. I would be more than interested in a pair of hold downs from you. Count me in!

In other news. I need someone to give me a swift kick in the arse to get moving again on my bench build. I seem to have hit a wall with it and am stuck on how to proceed next. I need to get the skirt and end caps on and start on the base but I seem to have a bit of stage fright when it comes to cutting the giant dove tails lol.

I think I have procrastinated enough… This thing needs to get built!


----------



## RGtools

Thanks for the info guys. That is pretty darn cool. I learn new stuff here every time I come.


----------



## chrisstef

AF - quit ur lab flappin and get to work. The tails aint gonna cut themselves and it aint gonna end up in the Smithsonian either.

Because i think this is friggin cool as hell. My cousin rebuilt our grandfathers old forge.


----------



## widdle

Red…Could you do something using the same design as your existing dogs, and than add another piece of wood attached at 90 degrees..creating a little shelf…sort of like a pin for adjustable shelves…


----------



## mochoa

Red you could make yourself one of those wedge thingies for edge planing thinner boards. 









Dave the pins are really cool!

Stef, that is some sweet iron man! How great that it was your grandfathers.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Lovin' me the pic below:


----------



## chrisstef

Maur - it really is the coolest thing goin. Its rebuilt and fully functional (so he says). My cousin is really handy with metal working and sometime this summer were supposed to try some things out. Id love some bench accessories that came off a forge that is now, at least, 3 generations old. His anvil is still in my uncles shop that we plan on using.

I ended up with most of his woodworking tools and my cousin, the metal working and mechanics gear. I still cant remember who took the wooden bowling ball though. There was so much interesting stuff in that basement that will live on with the family.


----------



## chrisstef

Dave - what kind of steel are you using?


----------



## AnthonyReed

Those pins are too cool!

I love the forge Stef. Three generations is strong stuff indeed.


----------



## BrandonW

Nice, Smitty. I swept the floor before my pic. Haha.


----------



## superdav721

I am happy you guys are enjoying them.
If you would send me a picture at [email protected]
I will post them and then hyperlink it back to your blog here.
If you have a website give me that as well and I will use it.
http://chiselandforge.com/user-pictures-projects/
I will announce the hold downs here first. You guys will get first picks.
Stop dogs are coming to.
Mauricio the dog I sent you was a proto type. They have gotten a bit better.
Now are there any other forged items for the shop you guys can think of.
I need ideas.
Chris put that forge outside and use it! That is nice.
Thank all you fine folks for helping me.


----------



## Mosquito

I would also be interested in hold downs… that would be cool


----------



## mochoa

Dave I have that spike dog in my list of tools I need to give attention. I need to do that soon and show pics here. 
I got backlogged on stuff while building my bench for so long. Working on some furniture repair now.

Dave what did you have in mind as far as hold downs? Are they hold fast type gizmos or would they use screws?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dave, a good pair of whack-'ems would be a welcome addition to my bench, and I'd be proud to have them. Keep us updated!


----------



## mochoa

Me too, I'm in for whatever you come up with Dave.


----------



## Tugboater78

Dont have a bench yet but im all for hand crafted!


----------



## OnlyJustME

Are you supposed to have the hold downs before the bench? If so, a pair from you, Dave, would be the best fit for my bench.


----------



## superdav721

I am working on the whack ems. A European style.
I need to work on some shade as well. Summer is coming and it will be hot standing in the sun.
I will be happy to have you guys using my creations.


----------



## superdav721

Got the pic Smitty.


----------



## ksSlim

Dave,
Metal roofed "carport" type with 12" exhaust tube out of the roof.
Forge will work, you can see the color, but if you're like me, when outside temp =90, I don't bang on hot metal.

Locate forge on the North side/corner-ish side. OSB panels each side of the forge cuts the winter winds, lets you pound Oct thru June.

Don't totally enclose until you do the planning.

Thanks for stepping up to provide forges stuff for the LJs.


----------



## superdav721

ksSlim that kind of car port was exactly what I was thinking of. I was going to place it in front of my shop. Great tips and thank you sir.


----------



## chrisstef

It aint much, but every little bit counts (read gratuitous self serving dopamine boosting post). 5" square … All 4 of em.


----------



## widdle

Nica and beefy…Is that fir…


----------



## AnthonyReed

Dave i'm in for a couple of hold downs too, please.

Right on Stef!!!


----------



## mochoa

way to go Stef, your half way there, keep plugging away.


----------



## lysdexic

You got some sexy legs there Stef.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Half way… yeah, right! BWAA-HA-HA-HA-HAAAAAA!!!

oh, wait…

that's not a very encouraging thing to say, is it?

uhm,

Great Job, Stef! You're almost there!!!


----------



## Mosquito

Nice work 'Stef. Even if it's "not much" it's progress. That was the hardest part for me. If I slowed on the progress, or stopped working on it for a small amount of time, that'd soon turn into a large amount of time lol

Speaking of… I still need to get on that garter plate and figuring out my parallel guide


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The wood of those legs sure is good looking stuff. Almost an eastern pine glow to it. It'll finish out and look stunning, I think.

And I agree with Mos - all progress is good. Really.


----------



## Tugboater78

Im thinking of investing in kentucky coffeetree lumber to build part of my bench, keep true to my region. It seems to run slightly cheaper than maple, and, if i looked it up right, is equal in hardness. With walnut accent.

Just sharing some thoughts


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I have never heard of kentucky coffeetree! Does it go by another name? (heading to Google)

EDIT: Now I know!


----------



## BrandonW

Wow stef, those are sweet legs.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Stef- I just love your wood.

Tug- Now you gotta do the coffeetree. "Time to get live. Time to represent." Sorry, bball flashbacks.


----------



## chrisstef

Aww shucks fellas. You sure know how to make a guy get all flush in the mornin. With any luck ill be drilling and chopping mortises during the week. Im gonna eat this buffalo one bite at a time. Shootin for a xmas reveal lol.


----------



## Boatman53

Stef…I find that time spent doing it right is never wasted. It's usually the short cuts I regret.
Jim


----------



## donwilwol

Shootin for a xmas reveal

Its good to set goals.


----------



## chrisstef

Im agree totally Jim. My grandfather used to say " sometimes the shortest way is the longest way". As usually he was right.


----------



## terryR

Good looking legs, brother Stef! Every small step is important…every bit of progress is joyful…but your Grandpa was correct about short cuts! Always look for the hardest most difficult answer to a woodworking solution! THEN, after that approach didn't work, look on Google for some example photos. 

Justin, if coffee tree lumber is priced near maple in KY, maybe I need to drive north for some lumber! I've carved a couple of bowls and spoons from the wood…lovely tones of red and yellow mixed with the light browns. Would make a prettier bench than cherry IMO.

SuperDave, how awesome of you to hammer hot steel in the increasing outdoor temps for us! Good luck making shade, too! A quick question for ya…Do you know what kind of steel most table saw blades are made from? I've been cutting them up for knife blades for years, but NOT heat treating them afterwards since I can't find any source that mentions what the steel is. Should I quench a piece in oil, a piece in water, then see what a file can do to the resulting metals for comparison? Thanks for any tips!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Shane needs to bust your chops for calling out a Christmas reveal. He's the official timekeeper on projects that run long in the tooth… (my wall hung tool chest, Mauricio's bench, Al's linen press, etc. etc.)


----------



## BrandonW

Shane is a Time Lord.


----------



## superdav721

Terry each manufacturer is using "there mix" It is a good quality tool steel. They are buying from a steel manufacturer but which type are they using? There are thousands. When you have unknown metal the way I test it is with a grinder.
http://www.scrapmetaljunkie.com/241/the-spark-test-and-spark-testing-metals-2
Go to youtube and search "spark test" you can see it in action then.
Now for hardening, I quench in burnt motor oil first, then file test. If it didn't get hard then I try water. A test piece is great.You only get so many times you can super heat the steel. The burnt motor oil has a high carbon content to it. There are some strange mixtures of steel that need specific treating. Unless you know the process you will never get it.
Saw blades are what I am fixing to make replacement spoke shaves irons with. I have a nice Jet water cooled bandsaw at work.
When you are re-purposing steel. Look at its original use. Did it hold a razor edge, did it need to be a bit springy was it used to mark or cut other metal? I categorize them in 3 classes. 
Mild little carbon
spring some carbon
tool good bit of carbon and or other metals


----------



## chrisstef

Bring it Shane ….

I snuck in a little bit of "weapon preppin" this mornin before we need to hit the birthday party circuit. Stropped the chisels and channeled my inner Andy and sharpened a few auger bits ill be needing for the mortises.










Locked, stocked, and ready to rock.


----------



## Airframer

Bonus points for Brandon making a Dr Who reference ;-) . I started to get to work on my bench yesterday when I remembered it was the wifes B-Day. Needless to say nothing got done yesterday but it has been announced that today is a "Shop Time" day. Progress SHALL BE MADE!


----------



## AnthonyReed

A little psychological warfare on the legs Stef? "These are are what i will be using on you. I'll leave you with them for a few hours before we start."


----------



## chrisstef

Ha! Damn straight Tony. Just lettin the gang get acclimated to one another. Mr.Blonde style. "You ever listen to k Billy's super sounds of the 70's".


----------



## AnthonyReed

Stuck in the Middle with You….


----------



## Mosquito

Every time I hear that song I think of that movie…


----------



## Tugboater78

Well i chld again on the coffee tree lumber, either the maple went down or i just flubbed it in my mind. 4/4 ct is $3.00 bd, (no one ive chkd carries 8/4 of it) 8/4 rock maple is $3.25, cherry is same as maple, and 8/4 walnut is $4.00.

Idk i may go get some of all in small quantities for some smaller projects, and just a metal detector and pull more nails, use what i have already for bench.

Take gf to the mill and let her see the mats and get her approval to skip a fancy dinner or 2


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Dave.

I've been using my belt sander with 80 grit paper for spark tests…will switch to the grinder.  Will also try warm motor oil first for the quench on a test piece. I guess I'm lucky the Ford diesel dirties up 3 gallons of oil at a time for me. Plus the little tractor…

I see table saw and skill saw blades thrown away all the time. Getting a small collection in me shop.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ouch Tug. I'd hate to pay that kind of money for bench material. I got the white oak and walnut for my bench for under $2 a board ft. Have you checked craigslist and woodfinder.com for any mom n' pop sawmills in your area?

Steph- What kind of chisels are those?


----------



## chrisstef

Those are the new (reissue) stanley 750's big red and ill tell ya, they honed up nice on the strop ya sent me.


----------



## Tugboater78

Bigred yeah i wisb i could fi d cheaper. There are sawmills somewhere close but noone seems to know their locations. Woodfinder- closest place on there 174 miles away, craigslist is how i found those prices.


----------



## OnlyJustME

I need a box of them auger bits so i can be like chrisstef.  ok i just need a set of auger bit for my braces.

Tug be green and use that nice stuff ya already got.


----------



## Tugboater78

Aye, i will, though need to find some lumber for.other projects, maybe one of these coming weelends i will make a trip to one of these uards and see what i can find.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I finally got a nice set of auger bits from Walt, but they are in a roll.

Well, hopefully Timelord Shane is happy with my progress;-) Just wanna get this bugger built so I can get on with my shop remodel.


----------



## BrandonW

Well, hopefully Timelord Shane is happy with my progress;-)

Is it bigger on the inside?


----------



## Mosquito

what you can't see, Brandon, is that it's actually just the entrance to the shop… you go down a flight of stairs into a shop that's been dug back into the hill…


----------



## Tugboater78

Thats the kinda roof i wish i had put on my shed.. more storage and headroom, the gambrel style intimidated me though. My real future shop will have one! Skill building ftw..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

It's 10×12. It's just a shed. Looks smaller in that pic though. Hindsight I probably should have faced the gambrel's forward. Might looked better. Oh well.

Tug- I admit, I didn't make the trusses. I intended to, but I priced it both ways and I wasn't going to save that much. There's a ton of room up there for all our Xmas stuff etc. This shed is intended for everything "non-woodshop." But I'm sure some lumber will end up in there.


----------



## widdle

Goin off red…killin me…was in the shop till 3am and ended up with some blotchy ash and one vise handle…


----------



## lysdexic

Random bench pics this evening. Working on a chisel rack…..


----------



## AnthonyReed

^Stately.

You could never have Stef over; he'd clash with everything.


----------



## widdle

Lysdexic..very nice..stylin


----------



## AnthonyReed

Very nice chop and handle Widdle. How did you end up attaching the caps?


----------



## BrandonW

Nice, Scott. Are those LN chisels?

You should build another bench to go on top of the bench on your bench.


----------



## widdle

Anthony..I glued one end, have not attached the other yet…i will either use your suggestion and pin through the sde with a tapered peg or just glue it and it will be peramanent..Thanks for the compliment the chops im cool with , but the blo looks really blotchy and the end grain looks awfull


----------



## lysdexic

Brandon, yeah they are LN chisels. The very same ones that I found in your truck before you drove back to Atlanta :^)

Red, the shed is a great idea. I built 10' x 12' to get all of my yard and garden crap out of the garage. You'd think that would make more room for shop equipment but NO. My kids just filled it up with bikes and scooters. The struggle continues….


----------



## BrandonW

Those were my chinese LN knock-offs. Made of aluminum and balsa wood.


----------



## Tugboater78

Nice rack?


----------



## terryR

Yo ScottyB, nice bench shots! You have the lighting down perfect!!! Of course, photgraphing THAT bench should make it pretty easy to get great shots…she's a real looker. Especially with the BOB, and all those sweet LN tools!

Love the LN socket chisels and rack, too, but if you purchase a sixth chisel, you'll need to send it to me for storage. 

I've been trying to add ONE LN chisel to my collection each month…only 3 so far…but I could sure use the 1/8" for this marking gauge swap! Somebody busted the rubber and plastic handle off my 1/8" Marples chisel…and hasn't replaced it yet…










Change of topic…
I renwed my online prescription to PWW mag…love that milkman's bench top! Looks like a great tool for working outside in the summer's heat.

Soooo, who has that Beal thread making tool? Mauricio don't you have one? Wanna make some wooden screws for pay or trade?


----------



## BrandonW

Terry, I imagine you could build something similar to the milkman's bench with veneer screws. Using that bench for outside work is a good idea--I often like to go in the back yard and work on the hefty picnic table or I'll even break out the Workmate every once in a while.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Brandon. Sorry, but I'm not familiar with veneer screws…google searching now…

something like a row of these mounted horizontally?


----------



## BrandonW

They're what I used when I made my Moxon vise:



You could probably get away with three of them for your milkman bench. Granted, wood screws look a lot nicer, but if you're looking for something fast and easy a good [veneer] screw might help.


----------



## mochoa

Terry I didnt buy a threader. I made my own contraption.

The threader:









The tap:


----------



## mochoa

Nice rack ScottyB!


----------



## Mosquito

I'm all for working in the back yard 

I've got a wood threading kit for both 1 1/2" and 3/4". I might do a review posting of them soon. The 1 1/2" works ok, but is prone to chipping in a few places depending on the grain. I haven't managed to get the 3/4" dialed in yet, so it doesn't produce anything useful currently…


----------



## GMatheson

Thought I would share my saw bench I made today.


----------



## Airframer

Very cool! I just started on a SawBench build myself


----------



## Tugboater78

My inspiration for saw bench here

Maybe i can get it done this time im in from work, mine will be distressed oak and poplar


----------



## mochoa

Pretty cool Gmat, looks a lot like mine!


----------



## chrisstef

Lys - its amazing how quickly a couple of small machine will tear up the yard. Get any time behind the wheel?


----------



## GMatheson

Yours was kind of the inspiration for mine Mauricio. I liked the simplicity of just the legs and the top without the need for all the extra pieces in other saw benches. Makes it look light and airy.


----------



## WhoMe

Hey guys, check out this fellow LJ's bench. Quite impressive. He says it weighs over 1K lbs.
BIG Bench

Although, I truly think that making that many holes in the bench must have been a exercise in mind and soul cleansing…...


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I've given two away, here's the first I made and have kept for myself.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Uh, I think "The Foster Workbench" has us all at a loss for words.


----------



## BrandonW

Honestly the "Foster Bench" doesn't get my blood flowing. It's a nice big bench with too many holes in it.


----------



## WhoMe

Brandon - Personally, that bench is not for me either but I think it is impressive with the added features and the unique configuration. If I had a bench that size, I wouldn't be able to fit a car or half my other crap that is in the garage now. 
Not the typical rubo for sure.


----------



## mochoa

That bench was interesting, kind of cool that it incorporates a downdraft table but it doesnt turn me on because its not designed for the kind of woodworking I do.


----------



## Mosquito

I would have to agree pretty much 100% with what Mauricio just said… That and if I had built a bench that large, I'd never be able to move out of my apartment lol

On the subject of benches in apartments… what are peoples' thoughts on parallel guides? I need to figure out what I'm going to do for mine…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

+1 what brandon said. Not for me.


----------



## lysdexic

That bench just makes me feel inadequate.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

It certainly is a feat of engineering;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mos, I'm at a loss. You mean for vises?


----------



## Mosquito

yes Smitty, for the leg vise


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I thought you had that solved! Too many bench builds to keep straight. What's the question? Here's a question Al would love: what are your thoughts on bending over?

That decides things like chains or cross brace mechanisms vs. simple, pegged guides.


----------



## mochoa

Make a screw for it man, its sweet! I need to make that video so you can see how it works.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's right - maur's is threaded and spooled in a bery cool twist.


----------



## Mosquito

*Smitty*, I'm just looking for ideas. The complexity of implementation is likely more of a factor than having to change a pin, or something. I don't think I want to go crazy with a chain or cross, or anything like that though.

*Mauricio*, I do have the extra 1.5" screw… and at 6TPI, I could make the foot operated nut 3/4" thick and still have about 4 teeth… I had thought about going that route, and having a 1.5" thick nut that was rounded off for 3/4" of it, and could recess into the leg. I like the idea, I just need to figure out whether or not that's something I want to do…


----------



## mochoa

6 tpi is perfect for the guide, no recess needed. Min is 1.5" and can clamp down. To about 1/8". The shaker. Bench in landis book has a 3/4" nut.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mos, since you have (and have made wooden screws), it doesn't seem like there's much debate. I'd be the first to say Mauricios setup is better than the peg setup like mine. I think it would be more fitting on your bench as well.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sorry if the post was pushy Mos. Obviously its your bench, and your free to do what you like;-)

But I'll explain a little more. I'm happy with my leg vise, and it works great. Everyone knows the downside is bending over to move the peg. But another drawback I have noticed with this setup, is at times you wish you had a 3rd arm (unfortunately, I only have a 3rd leg…LOL) But seriously, I'll switch to thicker stock, start to crank down the vise, then "oh wait, I need to move the peg," back out the vise, the piece of stock falls and hits me on my over-sized head. You get the picture.
It would be slick to never bend over and give it a spin with my foot.


----------



## Mosquito

lol no worries Red. I'm leaning more towards the screw, and I think that's probably what I'll go with… it'll be pretty easy to do. At least vs chopping a mortise and trying to drill a bunch of evenly spaced holes…

Done. I think that's what I'll do. Now I just need to do it… Now where did I put that can of motivation…


----------



## donwilwol

I'm leaning more towards the screw

Still thinking of hog's front seat??


----------



## Mosquito

Fine… I'll make some progress tonight…


----------



## chrisstef

Ouch Mos. Glueable?


----------



## BrandonW

I think it's that way on purpose, Stef.


----------



## mochoa

Woohoo Mos, that's what I'm talking about!


----------



## Mosquito

lol yes, that was intentional. I cut it in half since I have to get it around the screw. I wasn't going to show too many pictures (gotta save something for the blog), but I can't resist…


----------



## mochoa

^Skills son, skills….


----------



## Airframer

Alright Mos.. now you are just showing off! Very nice looking garter you have there ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

Nah, showing off is what this picture was for 










I'm going to refrain from showing pictures of the leg vise with the garter plate, screw, and hub, but I will say that Mauricio was right… the 3 1/2" hub looks far better than I think the 2" would have…


----------



## mochoa

Cool pic.

Glad the hub worked, or rather you were able to make it work. Lathe tune up is next on my list.


----------



## Mosquito

yeah, the hub has a little wobble, but I'm not too worried about it. Matches the wagon vise that way lol


----------



## lysdexic

How did you execute that hole Mos?


----------



## Mosquito

I started with a 1" forstner bit, went about 3/8" down so I'd be able to get it going after using the hole saw to do the outer circle.

Then I used a 3 1/2" hole saw with the pilot bit centered on the cone that the forstner bit left, and went down around 1/4" (I think it ended up being closer to 3/16", if not 3/8").

Then drilled the rest of the way through with the 1" forstner bit


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice images, Mos!


----------



## ksSlim

Great technique. With the 3 sentence explanation, many folks could do it.


----------



## widdle

Good stuff…


----------



## donwilwol

nice progress Mos.


----------



## superdav721

looking good.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks guys.

I'm thinking I'll drill a hole in the chop and tap it for a wooden screw for the parallel guide. Then drill a hole for a cross pin to prevent the wooden screw from coming out (unless I want it to).

Then I have to get up the motivation to take the whole thing apart and drill the hole through the back leg. Either that or try to transfer lines and drill through from the back of the leg instead


----------



## mochoa

Mos, my parallel guide screw is simply friction fit into a hole in the chop (friction fit with the aid of a shaving).

I like that I can remove it quickly if I ever have to clamp something super thin since my nut is 1.5" thick. Probably never though, I can clamp an 1/8" thick piece. Having it set up this way allows the lower screw to flex a little which helps my situation also.

Would you really have to drill a hole in the back leg? I have a hole in the front leg obviously but I didnt need one on the back. But then again your base has a narrower footprint.


----------



## chrisstef

like that I can remove it quickly if I ever have to clamp something super thin since my nut is 1.5" thick.

You may wanna get that check out Maur. Im not sure there's a cream for that. Could be a hernia.

Mos - im glad that it broke juuuust the way you wanted it to. (faceplam)


----------



## Mosquito

Maybe I could just drill a hole and peg it for the parallel guide. I wasn't planning on gluing it in, just a peg I could pound in and pound out (with the aid of a smaller dowel), if I needed to.

I could cut my leg vise screw down so as to avoid drilling a hole in the back leg, but I'd have to check how much it would leave me for leg vise capacity. I want to say when I measured it would put it somewhere around 6" or so… I'll have to check tonight.

At the base the legs are about 18" apart from front of front leg to back of back leg, so the parallel guide will be good.


----------



## Mosquito

lol 'Stef, yes, it broke perfectly


----------



## AnthonyReed

Damn fine work Mos! You sure are fortunate to have Mauricio around to keep you in line. 

Will the hole be that difficult to drill? The bench is made to come apart, no? You think that there will be a time when you say "I wish I had less capacity in my leg vise"?


----------



## Boatman53

Just remember the lower screw does not need to be the same length as the main screw. The lower screw has the nut on the outside of the leg and the main screw nut is on the inside. The difference can be the thickness of the leg. I hope I described that clearly. 
Jim


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Tony. That's part of the reason I love LJs… it keeps me on track 

That's why I was going to drill the hole in the back leg. To make sure I wouldn't run out of capacity if I needed it. I had made the screw so it's about 1.5" shorter than the width of my bench. That way it doesn't stick out the back of the bench.

It shouldn't be too hard to drill, it's just getting myself to actually take it all apart so I can is all. I'll be drilling it oversized, so I'm sure I'll have some wiggle room. I may just transfer lines and do it from the back instead. Still drilling at an angle regardless.

Yeah Jim, I understand what you've described. I don't intend to make it the same length as the vise screw. I won't make it any longer than what will not hit the back leg. The hole in the back leg I have to drill is for the vise screw. I may cut the vise screw down so I don't have an excess beyond what the parallel guide can deal with, but either way I'll have to drill a hole in the back leg for it, given the splayed leg construction


----------



## widdle

No time lately…Soo just a tiny bit of smack…purple heart and shedua, and purple heart and some local acacia… The shedua's good stuff..


----------



## AnthonyReed

Nice! The acacia is the darker of the two handles? I really like it.


----------



## widdle

The acacia is









the redish brown with the sap wood…in the teak family i think and similar color, but a hair darker..


----------



## AnthonyReed

Ah okay. Got it. Thanks Widdle.


----------



## DaddyZ

Nice Handels !!!


----------



## widdle

Daddyz..Coming from a guy who made beat-em up sticks as a kid…ill take that as a compliment…


----------



## mochoa

really cool Widdle!


----------



## superdav721

Terry I want to apologize. Your package came back to me.
PM me your address again to be sure I got it right.
Sorry.
We have to get you your bench pin.


----------



## BrandonW




----------



## AnthonyReed

^Joins the ranks of the elite LJ photographers.

Outstanding Brandon.


----------



## widdle

Nice pic Brandon..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That is a cool pic. You guys are making me want to get better at photography. Never cared until Ljs. Usually I just figure, "If they like my stuff..they do. If they don't…they don't. It looks better in person." 
But there's something to say for quality pics.


----------



## terryR

No prob, Dave, PM coming your way…


----------



## chrisstef

Looks like someone had a good evening there Brandon. Nothing wrong with cuddling up with some tools and 3 fingers of scotch.


----------



## BrandonW

Well I figured Scott was *always* posting photos of beer on his bench, so I wanted to up the ante a little bit and post some bourbon.

always = once or twice.


----------



## AnthonyReed

You don't have to qualify it Brandon, we all know he is a lush.

You did a magnificent job of upping the ante, by the way.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hard to get a good look at that beautiful saw when the bourbon is hogging the frame…


----------



## JayT

Yeah, Smitty, but at least the block plane is nicely framed.


----------



## mochoa

Great pic there Brandon! Making me thirsty.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

For true, JayT, he did get that right…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mmmmm…..Bourbon….. One of my best discoveries since moving to Iowa- Templeton Rye.


----------



## Tugboater78

Bourbon… Kentucky's sweet tea..


----------



## Mosquito

I here by proclaim that, barring any unforeseen snags, I shall complete the leg vise mechanics tonight.

I hope. lol


----------



## AnthonyReed

That's right, challenge the gods…..


----------



## mochoa

Friggin cool Mos!


----------



## BrandonW

That's right, challenge the gods…..

Haha. Good luck (now!) Chris.


----------



## chrisstef

Im pretty sure Mos just said he was throwin a no hitter. Id be careful in such a proclamation lol. Good luck brah.

I know I said to myself last night ill have these legs cut to length no problem. Then chop saw deflection set it. Bastard saw making me hand plane end grain.


----------



## AnthonyReed

"Bastard saw making me hand plane end grain." - I hear ya. The ever-elusive accurate cut.


----------



## chrisstef

I wouldn't have minded it so much if it wasn't for the bottom of the bench legs ya know. Ive had too many tables come out of my shop that wobble, I don't need my bench doin the same. So out came the low angle block to pare down the wiggly corner and the wrenches came out to try and realign the chop saw. Prolly a half a degree off and im blaming it on deflection and having to cut from both sides on the 5" timbers.


----------



## Mosquito

lol that's why I threw in the "barring any unforeseen snags" clause… just in case lol


----------



## AnthonyReed

Not being Andy, is it possible to get good enough with a handsaw to not have to worry about deflection or better yet not have to ever fuss with alining a power miter saw again? Ever.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Not that I'm there yet, but it better be possible! It *has* to be!


----------



## chrisstef

Trust me I thought long and hard about going the handsaw route. I took my crosscut D7 out of the rack and gave it a few passes into the timber and realized that this aint cream cheese im cutting but my saw was eerily similar to a butter knife. Kinda like cutting a cube steak with the edge of a fork. Fork that.

I do believe with a sharp saw and a good saw bench I could have made short work of it. But I have neither unfortunately. That is until Andy's world debut as the saw mastah general. Ive got a fleet of saws that need the works. That's my excuse and im stickin with it.


----------



## Mosquito

I've gotten pretty good at using that back saw that I bought off of Smitty. Been getting good results off that saw. Not quite there yet with the panel saws… but I also use those less


----------



## widdle

chrisstef
Not a whole lot of perfectly level, flat, paralel floors around ? What kind of bench are you making ? Do you have any pics of what you are aiming for..


----------



## chrisstef

Im going for your standard Roubo bench. Leg vice, sliding deadman, quick release end vice. You know the style. Pretty standard stuff. I attribute my wobbly tables created in the past to my lack of expertise but its coming along little by little. I assume some shimming will be required to off set the wiggly concrete floor it will sit on but the way I see it, the closer I get to flat and square at the beginning, the easier it will make everything else. Im working with 5" thick timbers so cutting them with anything is a bit of a chore but ill get it. No matter which powered route I take ive got to cut from 2 sides making it tough to match up exactly ya know.

I was just more bitchin and moaning than anything else


----------



## RGtools

Tony….yes of course. But the shooting board did get invented for VERY good reason.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Stef is going to need one hell of a shooting board for those 5x's.


----------



## widdle

Stef Wasn't trying to be nosy, i just find workbenches and techniques interesing…When dealing with large timbers i wonder if reference lines a couple inches up from the foundation make for more accurate measuring or layout sticks as the joints get more involved..


----------



## AnthonyReed

Don't mind Stef, Widdle; he's been pissy ever since Bhog dumped him.


----------



## chrisstef

Man widdle i didnt mean to come across snarky so i apologize if it sounded that way. By all means nose away, thats what were all here for, i love talkin bout this stuff. It helps me talk things out that my brain wont wrap around 

Tony dont worry bud i got room for multiple bromances.


----------



## Mosquito

Progress report


----------



## widdle

Mosquito..nice action shot..right on

Stef..I didnt take that you were..were good..i was responding to your post..but, was responding to squaring timbers in general terms…
I worked with some timberframers for a couple years, and PERFECT is not as easy as it sounds with timbers..soo when thought of bigger materials in woodworking it made me think of carpentry…Sorry dont have good writing skills..
it just reminded me that there is alot of differnt places to hook a tape on the end of a 5x.. When framing, refrence lines ended up being more accurate…im spliting hairs bro…


----------



## widdle

Soo .. actually i was curious how others like to do layout ?


----------



## OnlyJustME

I prefer to do it on center at 16".


----------



## chrisstef

Edit - 2nd attempt was worded better.


----------



## chrisstef

Internet ate my post.

"Lot of places to hook a tape on a 5×5". Exactly!! Now im pickin up what your layin down and thats my quandry. I alao now see what your sayin about a flat floor. Level the floor, plumb the piece and mark a reference line and measure off that. Like grading using a spinning laser as a bench mark.


----------



## Mosquito

Ice cream break time


----------



## chrisstef

Glad you were able to stitch tha garter back together Mos. Its lookin sweet. You headin for a ben n jerrys coma?


----------



## widdle

yeah story poles are handy..If there is anything else you would like me to over analyze let me know.haha


----------



## BrandonW

Mos, that vise is turning out to be pretty sweet. I'm glad you're rewarding yourself with a literally sweet vice now. See what I did there, y'all?


----------



## AnthonyReed

That's all kinds of sexy Mos. Right on man.


----------



## lysdexic

Long day. Just catching up.

*Brandon* - I will match you your three finger bourbon and raise you some…..

smack, crack, dope, ludes and a whip it.

My wife told me that we are all out of shrooms. Sorry


----------



## lysdexic

Not that i am competitive or anything.


----------



## widdle

ouch..


----------



## mochoa

Scott, LOL.

Mos the vise is looking sweet! Just dont show anyone a video of the wobbly hub and you'll be alright.


----------



## chrisstef

All outta bath salts? Partys over.

Also the coke can bowl is awesome. I hope you used a pigsticker to poke the holes.


----------



## lysdexic

Bath Salts - I dont even know what they look like to find an imposter.


----------



## chrisstef

Me neither but if tgey make you wanna chew someones face off or ramble naked through nyc im probably better off.


----------



## Mosquito

lol thanks guys.

Yeah Mauricio, it is is a little wobbly, but it works pretty well.

Nice pic lysdexic… lol

I had taken a picture to be satirical of the previous beers and whiskey on benches… but I'm not sure I can top lysdexic's lol

But what the hey


----------



## lysdexic

and before Tony gets all damn concerned and rustles up an LJ's intervention, the above items are a steroid shot I brought from work, flour, oregano, Tylenol, ibuprofen and, well, whipped cream.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Uh huh, and Stef needs bath salts to want to ramble naked through NYC.


----------



## lysdexic

Chris, I will rest easy knowing it is *100%* apple juice.


----------



## widdle

Oh yeah…Well that chisels looks chipped >.wtf..


----------



## chrisstef

"Just get me an avacado, an ice pick and my snorkel "


----------



## Mosquito

lol Scott, it was either that one or this one


----------



## AnthonyReed

That is a fine, fine looking bench Mos. Damn good show.


----------



## Boatman53

Nice little bench Mos. You will be surprised how big a job can be done on a small bench. I love mine.
Jim


----------



## lysdexic

Widdle - that chisel was picked up in a box lot of rasps. It is quite sharp and my dedicated paring chisel. The handle is homemade by someone and is so awful that I love it.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Tony and Jim.

Well… it might not be the largest bench, but it's certainly a big step up… I think I'll be able to overcome any issues with it only being 4' long if I've been able to manage with a workmate for the past year…


----------



## lysdexic

I don't want to come off as being patronizing Mos, but I am proud of what you have done.


----------



## AnthonyReed




----------



## widdle

lysdexic…Good…I was concerned for second there…


----------



## shampeon

Scott, a REAL hand tool gentleman-woodworker would use a 1.5" chisel (preferably a vintage 750) to cut up their charlie, not some throwaway razor. You gotta strope before hand, and do the fingernail test, though. A hand plane blade is also acceptable.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah pretty cool Mos! So is it all done done? Just need to put a finish on it?

I bet there is almost nothing you can't do on that bench, even with the small size.


----------



## Mosquito

*Scott* Given the tools I've got to work with, I even surprised myself along the way as well… I'm happy with most of the work I've done. Are there things I would change if I were doing it again? You bet, but it's my first workbench, and I'm working with a unique set of requirements (like being able to get it through a standard doorway, and down 2 flights of stairs lol)

*Mauricio* It's very nearly done. I think I'm going to come up with something to put under the stretcher to hold the parallel guide down so it doesn't rack when not clamping. Otherwise I need to flush cut the pegs in the stretchers, and then get some finish on it. Then I can start on the bench accessories when I need them 

The finish will have to wait until I've got a weekend (or couple days) where I can get the bench to my parents' place. I'm not going to do that in my apartment lol. I'll finish small projects with a fan in the window and the doors closed, but this isn't little lol


----------



## mochoa

Alright man, just don't drip any chocolate syrup on that bare wood are you're going to have a hard time getting it off.


----------



## Mosquito

lol I made out alright


----------



## BrandonW

Touche, Scott, Touche.

This thread keeps getting better and better!


----------



## lysdexic

Tony, that is some damn fine art work there my brotha.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ohh, this forum's on a roll. Lysdexic, that pic was hilarious…well done.

Mos- Your bench has some character brother. Puts my first bench to shame.

Stef- Although I smoothed my bench legs with a hand plane, I totally cut them to length with the crosscut sled on my tablesaw. Took about 2 min….but -3 on galoot points. Widdle's right, not many floors are flat, especially cement ones. When I first turned my bench over, it rocked, and I was like, "What the far-fig-noogin?" But when I moved it to the spot it would reside, it was fine. Whew!


----------



## Mosquito

When I built my router table, I forgot that I was close to the middle of the garage when I screwed everything together and cut the legs to length. As a result, if I have it on a hard level surface, it's got a pretty good rock to it lol. So I always have a 1/4" wedge that I put under one leg. Either that or I set it in the middle of the garage at the right angle :-D


----------



## Mosquito

On a roll tonight, even got the blog updated

And another one just for fun.


----------



## BrandonW

Looks excellent, Mos. Your screw looks a little low, was that done to fit larger pieces in the leg vise?


----------



## Mosquito

It was. It's centered on 12" from the top, which I think is a little lower than ideal, but done with the intent that a lot of what I work on is around 12-14" or there about. So I put it 12" down so I could get those pieces vertical in the vise to do joinery work and what not. We'll see how I like it, I guess. As much as I like the bench so far, I do hope to build a more substantial bench once I'm no longer renting an apartment. I guess this one is learning experience lol


----------



## chrisstef

Tony - getting your Bob Ross on, I like it. That was a half baked line if no one caught it. "trust me man, ive made bowls from less". Naked through NYC … new years 2001. It was cold what can I say.

Red - My plan is to get the bench legs and lower aprons all dry fit before I put the top on. This was i can make the top and lay it flat on my existing bench and attached the legs from there hopefully alleviating the issues of an uneven floor. Then flip her over and trim the through tenons on the top. I just might have too much thinking time on this project lol. I wish I could just get to work, make some errors, and hack together a fix on the fly. That's more my style.

Mos - a grand show there buddy but im gonna need you to up your ice cream intake. My wife eats a bowl about the same size … jus sayin 

Its mufuggin Friday ….


----------



## bondogaposis

Mos, That is a really nice bench you have there. I'm sure it will last you your lifetime. Once you get into a bigger shop someday I'll bet you'll still find it very useful.


----------



## RGtools

*Red*, I had the same issue with my bench (not that it's a masterpiece to begin with), but it rests perfectly in its normal spot in the shop. Most other area's I have to shim a leg here and there (lift bench slightly, shove in shavings, set bench down, done).
*
Scott*,I wanted to post s similar pic, but i passed out after the oregano.

*Chis*, I think of your bench of the little train that could. Except, instead of saying "I think I can" it's busy going "Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools.", thank you Napoleon for that quote.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Crisstef there might be a small problem with your plan unless you have a shop Crane to flip over the bench.


----------



## chrisstef

Lol OJM - yea flipping that pig over is gonna be an interesting feat but ive got a couple of strong neighbors that owe me a favor or 2. Ive all ready let one of them know that im building a massive bench and will periodically need some help maneuvering it around. He seems to have an interest in woodworking so I might even be able to bring him over to the dark side.


----------



## OnlyJustME

He won't join us if you give him a herniated disk. Oh well. . . . get that bench done. Less people rust huntin the better. }) maniacal laugh.


----------



## chrisstef

Well said brother, ill make sure my homeowners is up to snuff before inviting him over to help.


----------



## terryR

Congrats on a nice, completed bench, Mos! I hope you have to dis-assemble it pretty soon for a better shop! 

Biggest lesson I've learned on building benches:

Complete the shaping and gap filling of each 150 pound piece BEFORE assembling them…I rolled my beast on it's side so I could pretty up the back apron and legs…wasn't so bad. BUT, standing the bench back up on 4 legs was all my 160 pound frame could muster! I had to literally sit down afterwards. 

Now, I get to repeat that feat while I mortice out the front leg for a parallel guide…which wasn't even part of the original plan. Second lesson…start with a good plan, and stick closely to it. My bench was supposed to be a lil Paul Sellers knock off, but has grown in girth and is about to grow a leg vise…


----------



## Boatman53

I used a block and tackle from the rafters to handle mine by myself. I've got some good ones from the boating world.
Jim


----------



## OnlyJustME

Here's a cool leg vise. I don't really see how it worked though.
I like the flush mount bench dog too.


----------



## Tugboater78

Nice Mos, now u gotta get that thing all finished up and make it shiny. Mines still in the " what boards am I gonna make this thing out of¿ Stage not to mention, what style. Gonna start with a top and go from there I reckon. Leaning towards a Sellers bench with a leg vise, like Terry ( I think we both had the same idea at the same time) I am just waiting on him to finish and learn from his mistakes hah. Everyone has a Roubo, I am not a herd follower, no offense peeps, I just want something that works, and put my own stamp on it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

OJM - Al needs that bench, it's beautiful.


----------



## superdav721

If you guys would like to see where I forge. 
http://chiselandforge.com/forging/coal-storage-forge/


----------



## terryR

OJM, that's a lovely bench! 










Love the patina…hmmm…seller says I can use it for Kitchen Island! "Honey could you pass the salt, please, and my marking gauge?"

My PC is once again connected to the internet…get ready for photos!!!!


----------



## terryR

Very sweet setup, Dave! Looks like an awesome place to spend hours and hours…

Hey, if you haven't mailed that box to me yet, can I order one of those mean looking planing stops? I may be afraid to plane towards it, but they look so menacing I'd love one!


----------



## mochoa

Wow that bench is all kinds of cool! You see how the front half is a solid slab and the back is only about an inch thick with frame around it. At least that's what it looks like.

Now I want a drawer and a flip up planing stop on my bench.


----------



## OnlyJustME

I kinda like how the leg vise isn't the leg of the bench. I would love to know what all the other cut outs and holes were for. my kind of mystery book.


----------



## Boatman53

OJM… That's a St. Peters cross., the holes I believe were just to lighten the weight of the arms. If that is what you are talking about.
Jim


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Maur, get busy on that drawer! Shane's wanting an update already.


----------



## terryR

Here is one of my excuses for NOT having a completed leg vise yet…louvered vents for the shop needed asap to provide cool air flow!










Ugly? Yes! But I covered them with that Minwax stain/poly crap just to use it up. This is one set of 2 that are the downwind side…I'll splurge and buy black paint for the opposite end of the shop. Luckily, they look a bit better assembled and installed 14 feet from the floor! 

Here's another excuse…but much cuter. 









A step stool for the wife from bench cut offs and purpleheart wedges. I turned the legs, and drilled the holes in the top on the drill press…shimmed roughly 5 degrees each direction. I think I may add a few degrees more next time?


----------



## widdle

That old bench is great..Deserves a good home…
Nice work Terryr, looks like the bench and vents had a little meeting..


----------



## widdle

Dave..Nice work…


----------



## mochoa

Smitty, the to-do list is long enough right not. The drawer is pretty low on the list at this point. I like yours though!

I like the stool Terry. The angles look fine. Also, your probably ok but next time make sure the wedges go perpendicular to the grain to prevent the top from splitting.

Widdle, spring loaded round dogs? Very cool. How did you route the grooves?


----------



## widdle

If you look at the pic from earlier( top left) that one spun on me so i added a the tip of a screw..The dog holes are 3/4". I made a few 9/16" +- square ones…they work too..Actually kind of like them better…


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Mauricio, I put them at 90 degrees to the grain in the legs…didn't think of the top's grain…ooops!


----------



## superdav721

Terry your on!
Thanks widdle!


----------



## mochoa

Ah cool idea widdle, I was wondering how you routed into a round dowel.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

+1 Dave. Thanks for sharing your setup. Very cool.

Widdle- I really prefer wooden dogs. Those are sweet.

Down to making shutters and painting my shed. Gotta long to do list as well Mauricio. Ahh…I do it to myself;-)


----------



## BrandonW

Have you all seen this workbench? It was posted to LJ back in December of 2009. I really like how there's an extra little platform for his carving vise, though of course it isn't something I'd have. Definitely worthy of our attention, I think. Also, the bench owner, Dennis Zongker, does the best carving work on the site.


----------



## chrisstef

Seeking guidance.

Legs of the bench to be are cut and now id like to get started laying out the leg orientation and then the mortises. Ill be attaching the legs to the tops via a half lap through mortise. Meaninh i will have a 2.5" square section of end grain showing on the top. Do i keep the grain in the same direction as the members of the top? Im thinking forward here towards flattening the top.

The end grain kind of forms a quater circle, think center of the tree.


----------



## chrisstef

B - that bench you posted makes me wanna grab 2 more timbers and emulate that base somethin friggin serious.

Edit - damn im seriously second guessing using 2"x5" pieces for the stretchers. Thanks B. (sarcasm)


----------



## BrandonW

I think I understand your question, Stef. I didn't really think much about the orientation of the end-grain of my through tenons. I planed them flat with no issue. I just used denatured alcohol-- didn't even own a low-angle plane at the time. Smiley face:


----------



## chrisstef

Yea ya got it B. ill arrange them as i find them most aesthetically pleasing. So close to cuttin mortises. Gettin excited.


----------



## bondogaposis

Do i keep the grain in the same direction as the members of the top?

Chris, it makes no difference, end grain is end grain. Go w/ what looks good to you.


----------



## chrisstef

Thanks Bondo. Just to let ya know youre bench, or maybe it was that infamous pose, has served as inspiration for mine.


----------



## widdle

Action….nice…


----------



## BillWyko

Here's a little progress on my Bubingawork bench. Can'tbelieve how
well the Veritas vises work. 1/8th turn and your project is on lock down. I especially like their quick release lever, it releases your project exactly when you expect it to, no bind.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Are ya putting any type of finish on your bench HM? Gonna be one beautiful lookin apron. looks like you'll be working around all sides of that bench.


----------



## BrandonW

Looking nice, HM. Is that Bubinga and curly maple? I'm sure you said it, but I already forgot.


----------



## BillWyko

Thanks, yes it is Bubinga. It will sit alone so we will be able to work from all sides. I'll do a shellac seal coat & *************** satin finish. I also recently saw a product that you can apply that won't let wood glue stick, it peels right off. I have to find it again though.


----------



## widdle

That things insane…Gonna be a work horse for sure..


----------



## mochoa

Stef I think it just looks better going with the grain of the top IMHO. Nice to hear you are making progress!

Looking great Humidor! Thats a bench to make Frank Klaus jealous.


----------



## BillWyko

Thanks, you are too kind. I'm even a little excited to see some finish on it. It's been slow going but it sure has been fun. Just hope my friend comes through with the materials for the stretchers. I'm also going to make small chisel boxes at the ends of the tool tray. I'll do a low angle down into the tray to allow sweeping saw dust out easy. I have a couple other little tricks up my sleeve for an adjustable rest for the front, more on that later. I want to say thanks to so many of you for motivating & inspiring me.


----------



## terryR

Nice build going on there, HM! Can't wait to see that Bubinga with finish on it! I'd have a hard time just dropping hand tools on such a fine bench…

Small progress yesterday for me. I clamped all the pieces for my leg vise in place…then realized I don't have a drill bit close in diameter to the vise screw, doh! Ordered one last night from the www. I also realized I don't have a vise handle yet…been too busy turning stuff for you guys.  So, I designed and turned 1/2 the handle…other 1/2 today…with photos!


----------



## bondogaposis

Thanks Bondo. Just to let ya know youre bench, or maybe it was that infamous pose, has served as inspiration for mine.

Mmm, I may have created a monster. I'll be looking forward to seeing your bench Chris.


----------



## chrisstef

Maur - an inch at a time I am making progress. Now that I have some of the noisy work out of the way I can secretly slip into the shop to hog out some mortises without waking the whole house up. Ill be attacking the 1" wide 2" deep mortises with a brace and chisels. A quick test run proves that this old dry fir should be no match for sharp tools. As for the grain direction, its tough, none of the end grain is really parallel, but curved, so im just gonna go with the flow and let er rip.

Bondo - Hopefully by end of the week I should show some mortises around here. I was a monster way before your glamour shot so don't worry lol.


----------



## widdle

Had my little hoopty bench rapped up saturday. Was just about to post a pic, when i saw the "Bubinga Bench ". 
So i retreated to the garage for a little sweeping…Looked for the broom for about two seconds…and decided to drill one more hole in the end vise, that i really didn't want….About an inch into the hole i didn't want…I spotted the broom..


----------



## AnthonyReed

Nice little stool there Terry.

Man that bench is beautiful HM.

+1 Stef long being a monster. Good to hear of the progress Stef.

Nice dogs Widdle. I am sorry that i am too dense to understand the broom fiasco story though.


----------



## BrandonW

Widdle, did you fill up the hole with epoxy? Is that what I'm lookign at?


----------



## widdle

Caught an edge…The hole in the picture is 3/4"x 7/8' x got hacked pretty good….Was not stoked at the time..haha..Gonna re drill it right now…we'll see…


----------



## widdle

Yes Brandon…epoxy..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Started drilling before you were committed to the idea, or ? What does the blue tape do? And it loks like it's snowing in your shop! 

EDIT: Ah, I see!


----------



## widdle

Smitty…the blue tape helps me contain the mess.. Yeah..wasn't paying attention..made a couple jigs to drill all the holes in the bench and vises using a nice new really sharp 3/4 ' lee valley brad point( nice bit )..The last hole , i put on the drill press with a different bit …no clamps.. and it got away from me…haha..no big deal..but sorta funny..typical for me


----------



## widdle

Any ideas how i can fix this .. original plan was to re drill and than a tiny round over to match the others.. ...but i dont think its gonna hide the tear out that can be seen through the epoxy…the existing holes have a little bit if burn marks, that im cool with..soo…is ther a way to stain/color the epoxy after i re drill and ease the edge ? or do need to scrap it..


----------



## DaddyZ

My Opinion - If you arn't Happy with it, or are Questioning it - Scrap It & Start Over, You will never be Happy with It….


----------



## AnthonyReed

A Dutchman type of repair?


----------



## AnthonyReed

Lysdexic did a beautiful example of this type of repair on his moxon vise but then he deleted all the pictures so i am unable to provide a link to it for ya Widdle.


----------



## widdle

Daddyz your definetly right..dont want to stare at it for the next tweny years..bummer is im out of materal..but i guess thats not relly an issue either..

Anthony..yeah good idea, im a fan of Dutchman's , but seemless stain grade is probably not gonna happen with my skills…
Im thinking more in the lines of just adding some browns and blacks to the eased edge of the epoxy, and than a coat of clear wax along with the rest of the bench to wrap it up..basically









cheat with some sort of colorong..Bad ideas welcome?anyone..


----------



## chrisstef

Im assuming the hole is for dogs Widdle?

If so you could make your dog to cover up the offended area. Make the shaft the size of the hole and the protruding portion of the dog, lets say 1". Kinda like sweeping it under the rug but thought it toss it out there.

Or you could cut the whole thing down and lose a couple of inches (easy Tony)


----------



## AnthonyReed

You don't need to make it seamless stain grade, you can do a contrasting patch on the two outer dog holes (or all three) and it will look like you planned it.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Stef uses that strategy himself. He pierced both outer nipples and no one even notices his superfluous one.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Your bench, so you know what's best for you.

I'd consider extracting a fill piece from the underside of the chop to fill, then re-drill. But you've done the epoxy. Another option is to flip the whole thing 180 degrees, but you have it recess-chopped for the vise face.

Or, dutchman patch of another wood type, as Tony suggests.


----------



## widdle

yes chrisstef..Its just a dog hole..was gonna use it for some racking set ups.. wasn't gonna have dogs down that side of the bench..bad move by me….i get what your saying bout the recessed idea…good plan…but not gonna go that route straight away..
Tony…thats rattling in my peanut head aswell..


----------



## chrisstef

I stand humbly defeated. I cannot hang with a 3rd nipple joke.










But I can follow up with tasteless pictures !!


----------



## widdle

Smitty..getting a plug from the underside is brilliant….i guess if re drilled a 13/16" x 1/4' deep plug , the glue line would be kinda hidden by the eased edge..


----------



## DaddyZ

Why not make a Layered (Striped) PAD, with the Coloring of your bench you could cut off the Bad Spot


----------



## widdle

i think im gonna put down on more skim coat of epoxy ( hopefully no more air bubbles)..Get a sandwich…check the surf…re drill..ease the edge and try a little black and brown wax to try to math the the coloring of the other holes…?

Daddyz..PAD ?


----------



## OnlyJustME

Chrisstef, You should align your bench leg grain as if it were still a standing tree. That way if they some how do start to take some sort of bow(highly unlikely at this point) the grain direction in the opposite legs will counteract that bowing. Hope i explained it well enough.


----------



## chrisstef

Ya know Matt that was my initial idea but i dunno if its attainable without hiding all the delicious vertical grain to the inside of the bench but im gonna play with it a lil more tonight to see what i can do. Ill shoot sone pics for the hell of it


----------



## chrisstef

Heres how they are currently arranged. The left 2 timbers would be the face of the bench.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Yeah inverted would work too and keep all the pretty grain to the outside.


----------



## widdle

Stef that's some nice sticks.right on…right on..


----------



## terryR

Stef, those legs are gonna look great either way! 

Well, I decided to turn a wooden screw today instead of my new vise handle…









LOL. That is NOT an attempt at a screw! That's a piece of Ash I will use for my vise handle…but I couldn't find another way into the wood except by forcing those v-grooves, then taking them off one by one. I mean, look at the grain in that spindle…crazy, man! Anyhow, I finished sanding that part of the handle as well as these 2 ends…









But no glue ups today…just one of those days. I made the little jam chuck pictured next to the knobs to help hold wood secure on the lathe. Gotta be a good joke in the shape of that piece!


----------



## chrisstef

While i did manage to make progress i must share an embarassing moment.










Bench + timber + brace = taller than Stef.


----------



## BrandonW

Terry, those are going to look nice!

Stef, not everyone is 7'3" like BigRed. Don't feel so bad about it.


----------



## OnlyJustME

I do believe i recall a pic of Ryan on top of his bench drilling a hole in something. You're not the first.


----------



## Tugboater78

Saw bench time or strangle !


----------



## chrisstef

Pictured low left is the step stool i had to fetch to counteract my height deficiency. Just a funny shop moment.

I was thinkin some end grain cutting boards would look sick made from the cut offs too.


----------



## widdle

Terryr..those are fantastic…

Stef..Old skool…nice..


----------



## mochoa

Stef that's the way to go, straight grain on the outside is a must.

Terry, wow I have handle envy! ;-) I'm thinking I need a new handle now. Crazy spiral wood you got there. I love the end caps!

Yeah, Stef, saw bench and then sit on the wood while you work it. (that's what she said)….


----------



## chrisstef

Terry, correct me if im wrong but you just got that lathe right. Say 8 months? Youre pumping out some solid stuff bro. That ash is nice. Dat ash.

Love me OS widdle. Depth is a lil tricky though. Im a little deep (1/8") in one hole so i may fashion a depth stop. Ive got some electrical tape on there but the big chips are gettin all boogered up in there.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Wuddup fellas? Don't worry Stef, my daughter uses my auto ramps to reach my bench…hehe. As far as the end grain showing, with the knotty walnut I had, I just tried to find clear ends.

Widdle. You see that 1/2" piece laminated to the end of my breadboard. That may or may not be there because I messed up drilling the holes for my vise;-) Ticked off at first, but then I thought, "eehhh, I should beef up this end anyway." That breadboard will have to come off if I ever change the vise anyway. So, if you haven't fixed already, I would rip some off the whole top of that jaw, laminate an accent piece across the top, and re-drill. Look like you meant to do it. Just another option.









Keep up the good work fellas. Starting to move stuff into my shed. Will post a pic when its painted.


----------



## widdle

Red..Way to keep it real…unfortunately cheating is part of the game.. Sounds like a good plan..I need the hole soo am just gonna fake in some color around it..Was on job recently where the finishers took a ding on a cherry riser and turned it into a small knot…Soo thats plan A… New shed…stoked. walking sideways gets old…

Stef..done yet ?


----------



## AnthonyReed

Right on Stef. I agree with Mauricio straight grain out just as you have it in your picture.

Gorgeous ends there Terry. You do such nice work.

Congrats on the shed BRK.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Stef all you have to do is count the rotations once the bit starts cutting. I know you'll be using your hands but thats when to use your toes. Just be careful with bare feet in the shop.


----------



## chrisstef

Straight grain to the show it is.

Almost done Widdle … with the first mortise that is. 7 left. Right around the corner. These suckers are deep.

OJM - good idea on counting the rotations. Ill just stop when I hit potato.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Widdle- It's like my hs shop teacher always used to say, "the best woodworkers aren't the ones who never make mistakes, they're the ones who are really good at hiding them."

Terry- you've got a gift for turning brother. Those are beautiful.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, guys. I may make a few extra vise handles when I get spare time.  White wood for the shaft; colorful for the knobs…

Stef, those legs look HUGE on my little iPad…deep mortices indeed! Keep up the great work…

Hey, I also made an end grain cutting board from my bench cut offs…looks cool…I've only sanded it to 80 grit so far but I'll try to grab a photo. You wouldn't believe pine could look so intriguing!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Beefy Stef. Looking good man. How long did the mortise take, layout to finish?


----------



## chrisstef

Thanks Terry. Im just happy to show that something is getting done lol.

Tony - I laid them all out at the same time so that went pretty quick once I had the legs arranged the way I wanted them to look. Lets say half hour or so. Took me about 10 minutes to drill out most of the waste and another 10 to chop to where I am currently in the picture. I haven't completely finished it yet. Id say another 5 minutes and I should have it in decent shape. I assume ill have around 3-4 hours in mortise chopping when all said and done.

The auger bit and chisels chew right through that dry fir like butter. Its nice. In the pic I haven't even broke out the mallet yet but ill need to for the rounded corners. They're always the hardest part.


----------



## DaddyZ

Widdle ^

Sorry for My Wording The Pad = the Wood on the Vise Jaw, Just Add a 1/8" or 1/4" Veneer to the Top & drill through, Chop the Mortise for the Vise Jaw Taller the Same to compensate for the Added Height of the Wood PAD

I keep a few Rubber Pads in my shop for use with my Bench Vise. When I clamp Down on something Delicate I don't get the Marks from the Metal Jaws Digging in


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Stef scoring some galoot points. Think I get some for trying to lay tar paper on my shed roof by myself on a breezy day?

Terry, I like the contrasting colors as well. Your knobs make my octagonal planed knobs look crude;-) The only thing I've ever turned is was a mini baseball bat in hs shop.










That octagonal piece on my bench has some cool burls in it. I'm gonna start saving those pieces for the turners out there.


----------



## RGtools

Stef, get on top of it.


----------



## terryR

Stef, you really should consider a beefy saw bench first, IMO! Seriously, one meant for huge mortices and rough saw work, too.

BigRed, those hand planed pieces are much cooler than mine! The small piece on your bench looks like a wooden nut…awesome!


----------



## BillWyko

How about doing a groove all the way across & inserting a contrasting wood about 1/2 Inch deep. You would have to re drill from the bottom but it would solve the problem.


----------



## widdle

calling it good….What ?


----------



## chrisstef

Looks good from my house Widdle!


----------



## widdle

Cool..i used hide glue…


----------



## AnthonyReed

I like your style Widdle.


----------



## DaddyZ

Hide Glue works wonders !!!


----------



## chrisstef

I hear hide glue deteriorates under strong winds though


----------



## widdle

Stef..Those mortises look great…Your jammin…im thinking you should wrap the whole bench up by monday…We're counting on you…

Red ..that roof looks steep..thats two galoot points, one, if you used a ladder....What kind of lumber on your vise handle ?

And im calling my hoopty remodel bench project done!! here it was when i used to take it too jobs and put it on saw horses lol..


















Soo i added @5" to the width and 10+- the length and mabye 100 pounds…way better , finally can use the holdfasts..gonna be a big upgrade for now..


----------



## widdle

Stef..i made a spare shavings wad in case the hide glue fails under high wing conditions…


----------



## AnthonyReed

Outstanding man! Congratulations on its completion.


----------



## widdle

Last one..


----------



## widdle

Daddyz and humidor, I really appreciate the advice, Im just gonna use that hole for some racking gizmo's to hang in there..Its nice to be able to bounce ideas with you guys..
Humidor..yeah i wonder if anyone ever does like a dovetailed groove in there vise..Seems like it would leave alot of good options ?


----------



## chrisstef

That really is a good looking bench Widdle. No bondo pose though? Im kinda disappointed.


----------



## BrandonW

I'll be honest, I usually don't like contrasting colors on a bench, but because yours has so many different colors, I think it really pulls it off well, Widdle. Great work!

I'm also very glad I finished my bench long before Bondo's pose became a standard operating procedure.


----------



## widdle

Brandon..I dont particularly care for it either…It was supposed to be a quick job, using what i had on hand…But i like all the benches on this site…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

It's ok if you think my bench is ugly Brandon. We can still be friends….lol.

Widdle- Diggin your bench. My handles have a poplar dowel and walnut ends. I couldn't find an oak dowel that size.

Not gonna lie, the tar paper was a little hairy….and its not the straightest, but it'll work. Ladder on the sides and a good pair of boots on top. Spent the rest of the day filling the shed full of all the stuff I don't want in my garage. My shop is lookin roomy. Just need to paint and make some shutters and on to the shop remodel.


----------



## BrandonW

Nice work on that shed, Red; it's really coming together. I also really like your bench. Well, I like everything about your bench except for the two-tone crochet. Other than that, I think the colors on the legs look good and I like the through tenons and dt on the top. Of course, who cares what I like as long as you're happy.


----------



## terryR

Widdle, that bench is great! If I decide to add on to mine, I plan to add contrasting woods as you've done…

Here's my completed vise handle…Ash and Walnut…one end is attached with a countersunk machine screw…black of course. Also, of note, the parallel guide, upper wheel assembly (the lower one is holding up the chop), extra bushing for the front of my leg…










...just waiting on a drill bit to arrive in the post…I'm pumped to get this one done!


----------



## BrandonW

Those handles are sweet, Terry. You're making me want to remake some for my bench.

Red, how do you like the planing stop on your bench? I've gone back and forth about adding one to mine, but I'm not sure I'd use it all that much. Do you use yours? Would you recommend it to someone?


----------



## OnlyJustME

Very nice Terry.

Not gonna shingle the shed roof, Red?


----------



## WadeHolloway

Widdle one last idea for you. You have a couple of different woods in your bench, that a piece of the darker woods and make 3 larger patches, somethink like 2×3 inch or along those lines and patch all 3 holes and then redril the 3 holes, make it look like you planed it that way. You could even do somethink like making the patches look like butterflys or something. That way no one would know unles you told them. Just a thought.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Brandon- that made me chuckle because I agree about the crochet. I thought it was a good I idea at the time, but aesthetically…it's not right. It's the only walnut going horizontal, which bugs me. Still have a lot to learn in the design area. 
I do use the planing stop some. It's just friction fit. Although I think one that goes across the bench and fits in the two dog holes would even be better.

OHM- ya, I'll paint and shingle it just like the house. But shingles will go last so I don't overspray paint on them.


----------



## superdav721

Terry the pin has been shipped again. I forgot to put your zip code on the first try.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Dave! I hope I can put it to use very soon.

not bench related…

Dave, have ya ever forged a spear head?


----------



## widdle

Red..Shed looks great.. Steep little roof there..Looks choked with stuff already.
Thanks terry..Once again your lathe work looks killer..Never tried it..must be nice to put the squars and stuff away and let it fly..Looks like your on the home stretch..good stuff..

Wade,,thanks for lookin out..The repair went fine..hard to tell it got boogered up..but good idea if i run into a similar situation again..


----------



## superdav721

Nope but I am seriously wanting a carving hatchet.
Who we gona stab?


----------



## Tugboater78

i worked on my shed today, my roof is in the same stage of development as yours Red, but i have mine fully insulated, sheathed and has power now, seriously tempted to take neighbor up on his offer of doing the shingles for 40 bucks, i hate shingles. Oh and i have a shop bench built inside the shed, if that counts, no pic cause its a wreck! maybe tomorrow.


----------



## OnlyJustME

If he knows what he's doing with shingles, i'd give him $40 to shingle the shed.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'm pretty fast with a roofing nailer. Long as it's not 100 degrees out, I don't mind it. Roofed my whole house last year. Now mudding drywall…I pay that awful work done.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

My fancy vise handle. 










Planed the round with a block, threaded on the couplings that came with the vise (did have a pipe).


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Red, I like the shed. Good progress, too!


----------



## BrandonW

Someone made a Milkman's bench with wedges:


----------



## terryR

Smitty, your vise handles look fine to me! I know they work since I've seen ya build some cool stuff. 

I guess I made mine fancy since I'm artistically bored…tired of cutting grass ad nauseum! Looks like another 2 acres or so today! jeez…

SuperDave, I make decorated spears…think Native American. 6 feet long wooden shaft decorated with buffalo fur, deer skin, hand-painted Eagle feathers, sewn glass beads, over the top! All have been loaded with flint spear heads so far…was just thinking of a steel point? I've seen 'em for sale on the www…but shop made is way cooler! Just trying to keep your forge from getting rusty!


----------



## terryR

Brandon, thanks for sharing that lil bench top! There's always more than one way to skin a cat…I like his ideas…


----------



## OnlyJustME

check out this leg vise pin solution.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Savvy idea. That's gotta have a decent amount of flex in it though.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Yeah might want to go up a size or 2 on the screw and double the thickness of the chop.


----------



## Airframer

Sorta kinda Workbench related (using some of the cut offs from the top)..... I'm finally getting around to using my Moxon vise  I mean .. it IS clamped to one of my other workbenches after all.

Have only a couple days to finish a changing table. Just making it up as I go..










One side panel almost done. One more to go and then to work out some stretchers and a way to attach the top.


----------



## widdle

That old bench is great..75 bucks..that things seen more than ill ever know..
Airframer …good work there


----------



## superdav721

Terry send me a sketch of what you want and I will look at it. If they are for looking at I don't have to worry with the steel type. A hammer finish would look cool.
[email protected]


----------



## Mosquito

Nice work AF. Looking good


----------



## Airframer

Thanks guys. Found out yesterday we will be needing this by Monday. No real plans here just trying to build something solid and useful to hold diaper stuffs. Currently waiting on glue to dry so I can move my claps to other joints. Why is it you never have enough clamps?


----------



## OnlyJustME

It's one of them spacial paradox anomalies or something like that. As soon as you think you've amassed enough clamps, the universe decides to create some situation where you need at least 2 more. It's sort of like the bermuda triangle thing but acts different.


----------



## Tugboater78

not really workbench related, though there is a workbench..and materials for a good one.. but shingled the building today, oww my bad back and screwy knees.









a workbench… on the back wall.. under and behind a bunch of chaos. this was taken at the door

















standing at bench looking at door









and added a "lumber rack" 









oh and maybe these timbers will make a good benchtop, 2×4 on top of middle one to give reference, and they are 12 ft long. they were the floor beams in that old house. and yes they are off the ground and stickered, though i need to redo it since i thin they have sunk the blocks under them.


----------



## OnlyJustME

That's why i'da paid the neighbor the $40 to do it Tug.


----------



## widdle

Thats lookin good ..Your gonna be stylin in there..


----------



## BillWyko

A friend of mine at SMC Jim Mathews gave me some HDPE to put under the screws. They help prevent the vise from sagging when opened wide. If you look close, the insert for the tool tray has gaps on either side & the screw holes are slotted. This is done to focus wood movement towards the center of the bench where it will be unnoticeable. On the other side where you can see it, I used some Bubinga veneer to snazz it up a bit.


----------



## Tugboater78

gotta get the mower behind the mower out, only thing good on it is the engine, guess thats tomorrows project, pull the engine, scrap the rest! give myself some breathing room. Get that white metal cabinet out too, it goes on the carport now. i don't really trust the neighbor OJM, they seem to be one of the sorts ( hate to think that way but nowadays…) i would expect to "fall" off and sue me for everything they could get sadly, so i figured I would take the physical pain instead of the financial.

edit: 
Humidor that is a great idea! and that veneer looks awesome


----------



## widdle

Interesting..I thought of doing something similar for my vises..thinking i could just shim down as they wear..That veneer is sweet…good work..


----------



## shipwright

Hey Bill, I thought I was the veneered bench guy …. 

Looking good my friend.


----------



## BillWyko

Hey Paul, I learned from the best. (you) BTW how's the weather up there? We'll hit 100 tomorrow.
Thanks Guys, almost done with the top, still have to do the stretchers & platform under it. Eventually I'll do a cabinet too.

BTW the top has to weigh 300 lbs, it takes 2 of us everything we've got to flip it. LOL


----------



## OnlyJustME

Good call then Tug.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

HM- that is looking sharp. If that's the same stuff cutting board are made of, I've it on several shop applications.

Tug- Looks like your gonna have a nice little workspace in there. Made some shutters out of white oak scraps for my shed today. Not everyone has shutters that beefy on their shed;-). 
My shop is clearing out and the joinery bench in my head keep growing…10ft….nah 12ft….


----------



## Mosquito

Saw this in the most recent Rockler e-mail…









Would be a lot more interested if it were twin screw instead of a single screw… it could make a sweet little bench top joinery vise if it weren't for the single screw in the middle


----------



## BrandonW

Yeah, they really missed the boat on that design. At least we're starting to see a shift in the right direction-- in a Rockler catalog no less.


----------



## terryR

^I agree…whomever designed that on their lil computer has never held a hand saw or plane. Probably pressure from up high to offer an item for sale quick, quick. But…it sure is pretty! 

Hopefully the next version will be for real…and other companies will also start to think of table top vise options. But, I bet Rockler sells a ton of those…just sayin'

EDIT: Oh wait, I could use it to grab a 6" wide board flat for cross cutting…as long as I didn't hit the right clamp with my saw…Or hold a board flat so I could use a router to make a sign?


----------



## ksSlim

How beefy is the "chop" or bar?
Someone needs to test it. Wilton made a "look-a-like" years ago. Price was WAY too high.

compact, could work for work less than a foot across.


----------



## Mosquito

ksSlim, I was thinking about heading to my local rockler to see if they had any, or if they could get one to review.

Didn't say anything about chop thickness, but I grabbed this from their site:

The Sjobergs Smart Vise measures 14-1/4" x 14-1/4" when the vise is closed.
1" thick MDF top with melamine coating for stability and easy glue removal.
Vise jaws open to 4-1/2".
Standard 3/4" round dog holes for optimum clamping versatility.
Includes (4) plastic bench dogs.
Three mounting options: dowels, screws and clamps.


----------



## mochoa

Red, Brandon is the threads official Workbench fashion police…I'm cool though, I checked off with him before using different woods on my bench and he gave me the go ahead. You probably should have checked with him first… 

Widdle the bench is looking great man! Makes me want to play air hockey on it! Or whats that other game with the disks and the saw dust?

Brandon, I like the idea of the portable workbench for the deck railing. If I had a deck I'd be seriously considering something like that.

Tug & Red, great looking sheds! Those are going to open up some serious shop space!

OJM, Wow, that's a incredibly unique leg vise contraption! Makes me wish I would have paid more attention in geometry class. You should forward that one to the Schwarz. I bet he hasn't seen that one.


----------



## widdle

curling ?...A little shop hockey sounds good actually..Im gonna rig that up…


----------



## BrandonW

Red, Brandon is the threads official Workbench fashion police…I'm cool though, I checked off with him before using different woods on my bench and he gave me the go ahead. You probably should have checked with him first… 

Haha, someone's gotta do it. I hope this next part doesn't offend anybody here:


----------



## ksSlim

Whoa, a southpaw bench?
why not a mixed wood bench if you're a southpaw?


----------



## chrisstef

Is purpleheart and fir also off limits?

BTW - one complete mortise done. #2 drilled and scallops removed. Ive employed my Matt-let to chop the corners of the mortises and lemme tell you something, that sucker brings the pain!


----------



## BrandonW

Slim, actually it wasn't a southpaw bench, I just flipped the image because I thought it fit better in the no symbol.

I just don't like purpleheart or very contrasting woods. That's just me.


----------



## JayT

I just don't like purpleheart or very contrasting woods.

So my plan for a maple, bloodwood, purpleheart, yellowheart and ebony workbench is out then, huh? Darn, now what'll I do with that $10k


----------



## mochoa

Brandon almost un-friended me for using a maple screw hub on a walnut vise chop. Thats why I went with White Oak…


----------



## AnthonyReed

Way to go Stef.

Keep them in line Brandon.

Hahah - Mauricio


----------



## BrandonW

JayT, if you want to do that, go right ahead! Actually, I don't mind a good mixture of woods. It's just the two VERY STARK colors that I usually don't like. That said, there are some benches that mix two colors well, for instance Schwarz's cherry/maple(?) roubo:










Or when there's a number of species such as Widdle's recent bench top.


----------



## mochoa

Brandon you dont like purple heart huh?


----------



## BrandonW

Brandon almost un-friended me for using a maple screw hub on a walnut vise chop. Thats why I went with White Oak…

And I like to think that Mauricio and I are friends in real life, just to put that quote into perspective.


----------



## BrandonW

You can tell I can't even decide on whether it is one word or two (purpleheart v purple heart). In both of those pieces the purpleheart is contrasted with darker woods. I think it works "ok" on the cutting board. But I look at the picture frame everyday, hanging in my office, and am not super happy with it. At least purpleheart darkens with age into a brown.

Also, purpleheart on its own has some merit-it's a super strong durable wood. I wouldn't mind seeing a project made out purpleheart, but most of the times I see it used it makes my stomach turn. I think Ryan's making a marking gauge out of purpleheart-- I think it will turn out pretty well.


----------



## OnlyJustME

So purple heart and maple is out?

Hope you dont throw your shoulder out swinging that mattlet. Doesn't matter if your chisels are sharp with that one. It's going through no matter what.


----------



## widdle

Right on stef..forge on brahda…

Mauricio.. Thanks for the earlier comment..

Brandon..You mentioned my bench..and what should be noted is some ridiculous bad grain direction choices i made and butt joints…we should prolly look closer and joinery as opposed to colors..But then again who am i to say ..lol

That chunk of cherry is insane..Is there more pictures of that on the www ?


----------



## chrisstef

OJM - best part about that mallet is I don't even have to swing it, I just drop it onto the chisel. But seriously I was wailing away with my other mallet and then it dawned on me to break out the big dog. Life will be much easier by having it. It don't take no for an answer. Hopefully I don't roll over the edges of my chisels.

Widdle - a forging I will go brah. Im gonna need to start picking out some material for the stretchers soon.


----------



## widdle

Stef..Do you have the top, and stretcher material on site ?


----------



## mochoa

Speaking of grain direction, how cool would it be if you had an end grain cutting board section built into your bench for doing your chopping?


----------



## widdle

Im thinking it wouldnt be cool at all… But i did make a bunch of bench aides out of various scrap that should ugly it up pretty good…And i got some leather tanning as we speak..Burnt pink…


----------



## widdle

But what would be cool is a fat load of material, a decent sized shop , and few dudes with 7 free days to bang out some benches,...


----------



## RGtools

I made a marking gauge out of Purpleheart recently and can say that the wood does not play nicely with:

Tools
Wallets
Other woods
Hardware
Fingers
Nostrils

It's basicly the devil, but it's so darn pretty.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

This thread's on a roll cracking me up again. I don't mind contrasting woods, as long as they are worked into the design. I've made a couple of modern pieces using walnut and maple and they turned out alright. Brandon might have to close his eyes when I make our bedroom set with spalted maple and walnut…lol.


----------



## BrandonW

Looking forward to it, Red. Spalted maple and walnut could be a winning combo-- the spalted has so many features and colors, it could definitely work. Plus, even if I don't like, I love all your other projects, especially those arts and crafts ones. I wish I were as prolific as you are.


----------



## BillWyko

So Brandon, I suppose you don't care for my Bubinga/Maple bench? I have to agree with you on the purple hart though, it's one of those woods that people think looks cool on the lumber rack. Then they build something with it and find out it doesn't match a damn thing in the house. 
LOL


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Brandon. And keep the constructive criticism coming… as long as its not too harsh;-) If I weren't on my phone ,I would so post some of my hideous earlier work with contrasting woods now….just for fun.


----------



## WhoMe

Awww…. just make the bench out of ebony and balsa wood…...

And HM, your bench is just too cool because of all the wild grain patterns. Your wood choices also highlight your joinery. IMO, contrasting woods are nice when done like Chris's, the CW one above or HM's above. When you start using half a dozen different woods, it gets to look gaudy IMO.


----------



## Tugboater78

Red oak, syp, with walnut accents? Bad colors?


----------



## widdle

How bout pupleheart, wenge,and weeds…


----------



## donwilwol

wait…I've got a gunstock from wenge and purpleheart


----------



## widdle

oops forgot the picture..lets see it Don..









Hm..Whats the dimensions on that beauty..Can i rent a corner ?


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## chrisstef

Widdle - ive got the top material at the house but not whatever im gonna use for the stretchers. Im kinda torn between using more fir or using some reclaimed oak. My leg vice and deadman will be some 8/4 cherry ive got in the shop. Well, at least thats what i got planned. We'll see.

What say ye el brando?


----------



## widdle

Nice don..I would like to try some of that checkering some time….

Stef..Whats the top ? Fir ?


----------



## donwilwol

Fir for the stretchers. Save that oak for something special. Not that the bench isn't special, but not the stretchers.


----------



## chrisstef

Top is fir.

Don im pretty sure youre right. Theres some 3" thick stuff that ive had my eye on for the stretchers. Or i could snag another 6by and resaw it in half. The 3bys dont have that sweet vertical grain. Decisions, decisions.


----------



## BillWyko

I have to mention, all my woods for my bench were what I had in my inventory. If it were pine then the bench would have been pine. Just got lucky with my stash of woods.

I also have to vent, my POS Galaxy S3 deleted over 3000 photos after I did an update from Samsung. Called them today, sat on hold for an hour to have the lady tell me to push a couple buttons that disconnected us. Called back again, sat on hold 45 minutes. They say sorry, can't help you, you should have backed up your pics. The damn thing says it's backing them up. Then they say we don't have any info on google, you'll have to call them. I wanted to crush this POS. Now I don't have any pics of the bench assembly, the vise installation or all my other builds for a year. Screw Samsung.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wait, can we go back to the Rockler benchtop whatsit? As in, what's the deal with front-to-back dog arrangements in riser benches? Who uses them that way, often enough to make them a 'must have?' Enquiring minds want to know…


----------



## donwilwol

I've got some Ash you can use.


----------



## widdle

Stef Fur on fur…with a little cherry…hard to beat that..


----------



## donwilwol

yea, but some nice ash is good to.


----------



## chrisstef

I agree on multiple levels Widdle.

Don - can ya put wings on it? Ash would make for some solid stretchers.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Finally got some progress on my reclaimed lumber bench. Almost done pulling nails, screws, staples and pins out of my lumber. Got one more 2×10 (actual dims) to do. Anybody need some antique square nails? They're a bit bent but i think most of them can be straightened


----------



## terryR

Sooo…Brandon, it's a good thing you aren't my marking gauge recip…Been working on a lovely purpleheart and beech laminate! Yes, I'm serious.  The beech is quite reddish, and it looks good to me. LOL.

HM, that's a downright beautiful bench! Jeez, I've never owned that much Bubinga at one time!

+1 to wanting to learn checkering (still)! I came across a set of tools online the other day from the same site that had some thread chasing tools. Did I save the site? Ummm…no.


----------



## widdle

Ojm..No thanks..but thanks

Stef >.The base i used for my new top, I built a year ago or so.Its a combo of old growth and newer fir…The colors eventually blended together pretty well..

Terrryr..That checkering seems like it would be comfy on a hand plane


----------



## chrisstef

Awesome OJM. Ive been waitin for my partner in this smackdown to speak of some progress. Im itchin to see what you got under that dirty layer. Uhmmm. Ya know.


----------



## BTimmons

That bizarre offering from Rockler reminds me of this story. A taxidermist in the 1700s tried to reconstruct a lion, having never seen one himself and relying on only a description. (You want to see this. Trust me.)

I think that's what happened here, except with a marketing major and a vise.


----------



## BrandonW

I love everyone here and their woodworking projects-even if it has purpleheart.

Brian, that lion is great. I love the human-like teeth.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Me too chrisstef.  won't be long now. I don't think the grain is as tight as i wanted it to be (like yours). Depending on the weather i'll probably take the belt sander to some of it this weekend.


----------



## chrisstef

HM - that sucks!!! Id smash that thing to pieces. Then resmash.

Ojm - heres to good weather …


----------



## GMatheson

I used purpleheart to resole one of my transitions


----------



## BrandonW

Gotta admit, that sole does look pretty sweet.


----------



## BillWyko

I'd do that chrisstef but I think this thing could take a nuke like a grain of sand. The top must be close to 300lbs.


----------



## OnlyJustME

I think he was talking about the phone HM


----------



## chrisstef

^ yup.


----------



## BillWyko

HA haaa I forgot about my rant. LMAO. Sorry about that.


----------



## widdle

Anyone regret putting leather on your vises ?Or mabye i need a different glue.."elmers plastic cement " ?


----------



## mochoa

No way, leather improves the clamping dramatically in my experience. I used double stick carpet tape on to hold the leather on the leg vise and it was held fine. It didnt hold on the end grain parts of the wagon vise.


----------



## widdle

the clamping part makes sense for sure. The 1/16"+- offset on the edge of the bench doesnt dother you ? Imagining ill be constantly wanting to re glue the edges and having to fiddle with it..?


----------



## Airframer

Usually you can just apply the leather to the chop alone and leave the bench side blank. Plenty of grab with just one piece and no offset.


----------



## widdle

I glued up a little strop, and the adhesion didn't seem that great with Mr elmer..


----------



## superdav721

Widdle go to walmart and look for the shoe polish. Get yo a tube of shoe goo. Its made for shoe soles. It will adhere leather to any thing.


----------



## chrisstef

Solid tip there Dave and the shoe goo.


----------



## JayT

I use contact cement for leather to wood and haven't had any issues.


----------



## widdle

Thanks guys…


----------



## BrandonW

Shoe goo was a staple early in my skater days-- ollies and kickflips really destroy your shoes on the grip tape.

I've had pretty good success with just contact cement. Love having leather in my vise and would mosdef recommend it.


----------



## mochoa

I've used shoe goo but then started hanging a piece of leather from my laces on that side.


----------



## bondogaposis

I put leather (suede) on my chop. I think it really helps. I used contact cement and have had no issues. I put small pieces on my dogs and holdfasts too.


----------



## widdle

Thanks bondo..Mabye if i quit picking at it to check adhesion it will bond better…


----------



## BillWyko

Weldwood contact cement for vinyl car tops. You have to apply it to both sides. I buy it by 5 gallon containers but you can get it in small amounts too. Your leather will never come off.


----------



## chrisstef

4 mortises complete. 2 more then i fashion some stretchers. Giddy up.

I also made good a leap in my work today. I was given 2 tips that hadnt ever crossed my mind. OJM suggested counting the rotations when using a brace to control depth. Worked like a charm. Very little difference in depth over 4 holes. Mauricio also brought up using my 71 for flattening out the bottom of my mortises.

Ive got new found love for that router plane. Chub worthy.


----------



## widdle

Nice piano…


----------



## widdle

Are you saying your dropping the blade a couple inches deep ?


----------



## chrisstef

Yup. I dunno if thats a preferred method or not but it worked . 2" deep. Bout normal for me.


----------



## widdle

just playin…looks good…


----------



## mochoa

Stef I cant take credit for that one. I was talking about the tenons. I've never used a 71 on the bottom of a mortise. Great progress though!


----------



## donwilwol

I've an extra #71. Need blades. #62 is not leavin just yet. A DW shooter is a possibility.

wait….wrong window.


----------



## chrisstef

Ahh indeed you did say tenons. Well, for whatever its worth, thats where i got the idea to use it on the mortises. Thanks bro!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Widdle- I've nearly posted about the issue of leather on my leg vise. I do regret putting leather on the bench side. The 1/16" does impose on the big uniform clamping surface that I'm shooting for with a roubo. Having a crotchet amplifies the issue. I can take a pic if you like, but when I have a long board in my leg vise, tucked in the crochet, it will come away from the bench a couple inches on the far end. Gets all cockeyed. 
I plan on removing the leather on just the leg side. But I put it on with contact adhesive, so it will be a chore. My 2cents- try leather on just the chop side first. I think it would be sufficient.


----------



## RGtools

^agreed here. Anything that messes up the flat front edge of your bench is going to annoy you.


----------



## widdle

Red..i understand what your saying…seems like a toss up..I dont see vise pressure and slipping being an issue..But handy as far as marring(?) goes..and that can be easily dealt with as well…

Rg..Probably better to have a little sugar pine..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

There's really nothing to lose adding leather to your chop. It does help the grip. I just wanted to point out that there is a downside to adding it to the leg side….as you suspected.


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, you can remove the bench side leather rather easily by dribbling lacquer thinner onto the contact cement behind the leather. Using a sharp putty knife to open a tiny kerf to get started, then freshen the dribble as it melts its way down. Give it a little time and be patient, but it will come loose pretty cleanly eventually. You can speed things up a bit by soaking the leather pad with LT as much as it will take without running "down your leg"!
If you don't care for the fire risk, a heat gun will also soften the contact cement enough to loosen its grip, but not as effectively as the LT.
Good luck,
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks DanK. I'll give that a whirl. Always something to learn on Ljs.


----------



## BrandonW

I only have leather on the chops.

Red, there's an easy solution for your situation. Just add leather to the rest of the front of your bench so that the leather at the leg vise is flush with the rest of the front. And while you're at it, just cover up that crochet with leather too. hehe. I'm a terrible person, I know.


----------



## BillWyko

I own a Car audio shop, we do upholstery too. We use a product called wax & grease remover to take off contact cement. Let it sit for a few seconds & it should peel right off. It's save on all fabrics, leather, paint etc. Should be safe on almost any finish on your bench too, try it on a descreet place to be sure. I've never had it affect any finish so far.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks HM

Brandon- Good idea. Today, after I roof my shed, I'm just gonna cover that awful two-toned crochet with leather….lol. I get the feeling if I ever got to meet you and Mauricio, there would be a couple of beers and a lotta laughs involved.


----------



## RGtools

My bench is a yellow pine, so if I am not careful, marring can be an issue. However, I have found that proper vise use and vise setup prevents most if not all marring issues. I keep some rubber pads handy for the odd scenario where I feel I need extra grip or a touch more mar resistance, but I never actually put any sort of leather or rubber on my vise…just never got around to it.


----------



## OnlyJustME

I guess i should also admit that i cant take credit for my tip too. Good ol' Roy taught me that one.

Not gonna get more done on the bench wood today. It's a raining out.


----------



## chrisstef

And im sure Roy heard it somewgere else as well Matt so im still giving you credit .

Sucks about the weather. Belt sanding inside aint gonna please anyone though. What exactly is your bench wood. Oak?


----------



## OnlyJustME

I wish it was oak. Just used 2×10 joists, pine, not sure what kind yet. Was hoping for some good old hard wood but i guess the house wasn't quite old enough for that. Had the tongue and groove heart pine flooring nailed right to the joists (no sub floor) with old square nails. Hard to work on the 12-14 ft long joists in my shop until i get them cleaned up, ripped and cut down to size. Once i get them cleaned up, i can look at them and cut any bad stuff off, as in holes drilled for electric (probably knob and tube) and plumbing and notches cut in them and rotten ends where they were set into the brick. Then i will see what size top i can get from it. Should be at least 4" thick but don't know length yet.


----------



## Airframer

Off topic but just had to share this with the group. I think after all the joints I cut in this I just might be ready to tackle my benches base. I mean bigger is easier right?


----------



## widdle

Stef,..Can we get a progress report ?...hows those nachos..over & out..


----------



## chrisstef

Status update ….

5 mortises complete. 3 left in total and only one more mortise before I craft up the stretchers. I need to make up the stretcher that will carry the deadman prior to hogging those mortises out so it lines up properly. Ive been getting quicker as I go and ive got it down to 22 minutes per mortise.

Looks like im gonna need to dip into the warehouse stash for another 6×6. Back to stock prep but things are moving along nicely.


----------



## terryR

Eric, the changing table looks nice! I may have to search for a few of those espresso shelves…

Stef, you are working so hard, bud, you are making ME sweat!  Wish I were closer to help…I love chopping big square deep holes in wood! Very pleasing!

Right now my bench is covered with 100 little marking gauge making parts. I have several ideas, lots of spare parts, just gotta pull it all together, and finish something!


----------



## chrisstef

Nah no sweatin involved Terry but the shoulder is a bit sore today lol. It stays a nice cool and temperate 55-65 degrees in the shop year round. I think ive developed a "method" as far as chopping these mortises out now which makes things a lot more enjoyable. Ive noticed though that im undercutting them slightly by maybe an 1/8th of an inch. I need to work a little more on that vertical aspect but considering ill be drawboring them, no harm no foul in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Way to go Stef.

The 6×6 is for the deadman stretcher?


----------



## chrisstef

It will be for all the stretchers Tony. They come in at 9' long which should leave me enough for (2) 52" stretchers and (2) 29" stretchers resawn at 2.5" thick so I can keep that vertical grain throughout. Ill probably glue a piece on behind the deadman stretcher to carry the shelf slats at the bottom and rabbets every where else.

The top of the bench will be around 72" long and 25" wide. The base will measure 48" x 25". At least that's what the little drawing in my head looks like. Depending on how much material I have I may elongated the base a little bit but I want to leave some overhang.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Don't forget the drawing in your head is upside down and backwards.


----------



## chrisstef

Don't confuse me Matt lol. Ive spent countless hours laying in bed drawing this thing up. And my wife wonders why I talk in my sleep.


----------



## waho6o9

25" x 72" is good size for a bench Stef and it will serve you well.

upside down and backwards? Only when Stef's cutting Crown molding.

nyuck nyuck


----------



## AnthonyReed

^ OJM has a point.

Stef - Glue? Not just screws?


----------



## waho6o9

Oops double post


----------



## chrisstef

Or screws … depending on how much TB ive got on hand at the moment and what stage im in at that point. Much yet to be determined. Wing and a prayer ya know 

Wahoo - crown molding or doing the hibbity dibbity. Coincidentally, both make my head hurt and are usually fueled or treated by alcohol.


----------



## OnlyJustME

I think you should tongue and groove the pieces behind the deadman


----------



## chrisstef

I like your angle there OJM. Trying to make more work for me so you can catch up. Sneaky ba$tard.

Ive gone T&G for shelf slats before and had one hell of a time trying to jam em all in there once the stretchers had been joined to the legs.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Of course do what you want, and T&G is certainly a traditional method, but aside of tradition what's the point? Catch (and accumulate) dust? If I would have had a #48 when making my bench, the shelf boards would have been T&G. But I didn't, and they're not. They're cut to fit, and fit tight, and haven't failed to serve as shelf boards. Of course, they're now under a couple hundred pounds of tool cabinet as well, but I'm sure they're still there and doing the 'shelving' thing they do.

Sorry to ask these tough questions, and no disrespect meant to OJM of course. It is something I've thought about though…


----------



## Mosquito

I was originally going to do T&G on my tool well bottom, but decided not to. Not just to save time, but because I like the idea of being able to use a regular clamp on the back. So now I can remove just one board and be able to use a clamp, instead of having to remove an end board, and then sliding all of them down.


----------



## BillWyko

I really enjoy making the Condor tails, now what else can I do those on. Kind of sucks that there isn't more ways to use these, I'd really like to do more. I may add one more to the clamp face of my tail vise but other than that I really don't have anywhere else to put them to use.


----------



## mochoa

Great progress Stef! Moving along nicely.

I did a half lap with a bead on my shelves, mostly because I wanted to give my #45 a spin and I think it looks good. I did cut the half lap off of the last couple to make them easier to put in and slide out.

Mine arent glued down or anything, just sitting in place.


----------



## chrisstef

That's the route I was planning on going Mauricio. Just half laps or maybe just a 3/4" rabbet to accept the shelf.

I think OJM was trying tryin to connive me into some more work so he can catch up with his bench build. There was a smackdown call out if I do remember. By no means would I consider this a contest though, more like 2 guys just trying to push one another along in a productive manner.

How's the weather today OJM?


----------



## OnlyJustME

I wasn't thinking tongue and groove all the sides (though that would take a good amount of time and let me catch up ) I just meant the one end (deadman side) so you could stab the tongue end into the groove (deadman rail) and lay the board flat on the rabbet on the other strecher. no need to glue an extra piece to the deadman rail.

Edit: looks like we're finally getting the april showers chrisstef. only a month and a half behind.


----------



## widdle

Pushin along…Right on ..


----------



## chrisstef

Now im pickin up what youre laying down bro. As said before im kinda wingin this thing so ill stash that idea in my temporary folder.

Edit: Damn weather.


----------



## terryR

Cool…keep the ideas on lower shelf flowing…I plan to retro-fit one. Should be work out…

Mauricio, your shelf looks so nice, it looks like you used flooring cut offs from the factory!  I've got to get my 45 in full working order!!!


----------



## Mosquito

yes you do Terry…


----------



## BrandonW

I love seeing Mauricio's lower shelf. That's my favorite so far.

Mine on the other hand is a basic design, no tongue and groove or ship-lapping. Just straight boards and I just used scrap lumber (white and red oak) for the purpose. The boards sit on a ledge and they might be pinned in place with a couple of brads, I don't remember. Actually, I haven't seen the lower shelf since I built the bench because its holding a couple hundred pounds of jatoba cut offs.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's under the backsaw, but here's a pic of my bench's lower shelf, ala Brandon.










I cut up an old (and painted) white oak tabletop to make the shelf; the undersides are still paint-covered, as I recall.


----------



## chrisstef

I cant believe you didn't expose those lovely painted faces Smitty. That's just not like you.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Always keep 'em guessing, I say. 

Funny, after all the $ spent on tools since that picture was taken, I would have to say that Craftsman block is still one of my go-to tools, the Cinncinati Saw Co. backsaw is still my only true tennon saw, and the planishing hammer is in the benchdrawer and used almost every time I'm at the bench.


----------



## chrisstef

Its funny how we all have those "go to" tools. They've with stood the beating and begged for more. Kinda like Tony at a BDSM party.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks for the props Brandon. I also used what I had on hand, thats whey the boards are random width.

Brandon, your shelf has a lot of character with the mixed woods, looks good.

Smitty, your bench is still one of my favorites.


----------



## mochoa

Terry, thank you to. I havent done much to my #45, I just sharpen an iron as the need arises. Luckily the one I got from The Dude was already pretty clean and didn't really need any work. I could probably still give it a little degreasing though…. that's one more tool on the list that needs some love.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Now stef has me wondering if there is paint under the shelf boards. Almost certain, by I just don't remember. Not curious enough to empty the cabinet and pull it just to find out, though, It'll wait until it's time to re-Watco the cabinet (this summer).

Thanks to you, Maur. We oaken bench folks have to stick together, after all.


----------



## chrisstef

Little POV for tha fellas …


----------



## widdle

Get some….The fir is gonna be nice…


----------



## AnthonyReed

Great shot Stef!


----------



## waho6o9

Sans 2 miter gauges? Impressive Stef, major skills I tell ya!


----------



## mochoa

+1 to what Widdle said, Get Some!


----------



## widdle

Hm..Just looked back at your tails…Those look tight ,tight…Whats your technique ?


----------



## BillWyko

There's an article in the August 2011 issue of Popular Woodworking written by Jameel Abrahams on how to do the condor tails. I made some slight changes to the technique but otherwise the same as the article. The whole issue is an excellent read.


----------



## chrisstef

Ohhh I got some, and now I need some Aleve, shoulder's a little tender this mornin. Just need to clean that last mortise up of some fuzzies and im off to the races on the stretchers. Im hoping that the pending long weekend will give me a little bit of time to do some more stock prep and even a bit of resawing. I will not, I repeat, will not, be ripping those puppies down by hand. I think im gonna need some of the neighbors assistance when the timber hits the bandsaw.

Thanks for all the encouragement fellas.


----------



## bondogaposis

Looking good, your making some real progress.


----------



## terryR

Slow down, Stef…

Now, I'm in the same boat as Mos a few months ago…if I don't get busy and finish MY bench, you guys that just started will finish before me! 

Finally, I have all the pieces and tools needed for the leg vise to become real. I just need a stiff kick in the rear to get going…and cooler weather would help!


----------



## AnthonyReed

That is awesome Stef! Way to go man.

Terry how long do you think it will take you to get the leg vise done?


----------



## Mosquito

Just go for it Terry! Once you get rolling, I think you'd be surprised how quickly the leg vise can come together. At least that was the case for me. I just had to "sack up" as ScottyB would say. Quit worrying about it and start doing it. Then I was done in no time 

It's just wood, we all already know how to hide and fix mistakes anyway, right? lol


----------



## chrisstef

If I catch up to you Terry ill be sending a five fingered slap in a box to Alabama . Quit lab flapping and do it!

Ill be slowing down here shortly due to all the milling of the stretchers. Finding 3 hours where I can make unworldly noise in the house doesn't happen all too often but ya never know. Im in no rush here.

I think the coolest part about making this bench is that im not really scared to screw something up. It aint fine furniture but im trying to treat it like so. In the end, its a bench that will never leave the shop and be seen by only a few people. Luckily the lumber was free and not some $80 piece of exotic. I screw up and theres more where it came from.


----------



## terryR

Tony, I could probably drill and chisel the thing together in a couple of days…if the temps were back in the 60's. I hate to whine, but today it's 87 in the shop, in the cool zone. I just messed up a little mortise for a marking gauge…but a tiny shim, some epoxy, and everything is looking good!

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Mos. I WAS worried over the task until recently…now it's just a specific list of woodworking tasks to be pulled off one at a time…no big deal. I hope! 

Stef, we just got chickens yesterday! I'm still stapling up wire in tiny holes I never noticed before in the guinea coop! But, don't worry, no need to get a big ole box for the hand slap…


----------



## chrisstef

No sweat Terry. I wouldn't want you losing any runaway chickens. Sounds like the summer swelter is on down in your neck of the woods. I cant imagine its "dry heat" either … whatever the hell that is anyway. I say treat yourself to a nice ice cream cone for your hard work. Maybe even a milkshake.


----------



## BillWyko

Come on guys, I didn't start my bench until I saw this thread around a thousand posts ago. Light a fire under your arses or it'll be the middle of summer and hot as hell. Just kidding, I'm no pace setter, just pushing myself to get this particular project done. A lot of good looking benches have popped up since this began, well done my friends.


----------



## widdle

^ Yeah…lets wrap it up guys…


----------



## widdle

For the record…Ive been working on a peg for a few hours…a jig to shape a peg…yep, like two yours and five cigerettes..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I've already built several pieces of furniture and a garden shed while ya'll have been goofin off;-)

Hehehe…nah, I've been clearing out the shop and deciding what to keep or not. Have to say, you guys(Smitty and Stef in particular) have been a good influences. See, I'm the opposite of a pack-rat. Normally I just throw stuff away I won't use soon. But I've saved and organized a bunch of stuff (cedar fence pickets etc.) There's some projects I can use that stuff for….and it's hard to beat free.


----------



## BillWyko

Personally I'd like to see this thread go on for ever, I just want to see the benches under construction so far. (This coming from the guy that's at a stand still until I can get the material for my stretchers)


----------



## chrisstef

Throwing out the Smitty signal …. this gentleman needs your expertise on something glorious …. http://lumberjocks.com/topics/50069#reply-642569


----------



## chrisstef

Ohh and Red .. me, a good influence? Now ive heard it all


----------



## BrandonW

I have a hard time throwing away wood. Hey, let's see some progress photos of those benches!

Also, good to see the SW image getting some use.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Answered the call, thanks Stef! (love that graphic…)


----------



## chrisstef

Yea thats a classic BW. Thank you for that.

I dont have much to show for progress but i finished mortise #6 tonight. On to the stretchers!

Nothin special but brandon asked …


----------



## OnlyJustME

tic tic tic. . . . . . . . .tic tic tic . . . . . .tic tic tic

This just in:

An update on the workbench smack down.

OnlyJustME is finally ready to start milling the bench top wood.



















When asked about milling the top, he had this to say. 
"Well it's gonna be a really slow process. These are reclaimed floor joists so they had lots of nails, screws and staples in them. I tried to get them all out but i know i didn't. Some were probably broken off and i didn't see them. I don't want a nice sharp blade to hit a piece of metal and put a chip in the blade. The plan is to rip them down the center and use the new exposed edge as the top so any metal pieces will be on the underside and not interfere with any planing on the top. This should give me a top thickness of about 3-4 inches."

During the interview OnlyJustME planed down one end of what he said was probably the best looking joist from what he could tell through all the roughness and dirt. He went on to say it would most likely be the one he uses for the apron.



















That's all for now. More news when it breaks.


----------



## BTimmons

OJM, that's gonna be a mofo milling all that up. I'm in awe of your determination.


----------



## BrandonW

Great updates, guys!


----------



## donwilwol

Somebody get a note to the reporter. I want to know if that's the saw that will be used for ripping them down the center. RG will be so excited if the answer is "yes"!

If that is the case, it will be best if OJM ware's a trench coat.


----------



## chrisstef

Very pleased to see some action OJM. I was grasping at straws to fulfill brandons request. I think youve got a good plan moving forward. Those 16' long joists or what bro, they go on forever. You're not gonna hand plane all of tge faces flat are ya??


----------



## DanKrager

Man, look at all the Galootness points laying there! 
DanK


----------



## donwilwol

I'd run it through my planer, then sit them on the saw horse with a couple of Stanley's sitting on top. Oh the perception (or maybe deception)


----------



## DanKrager

...and are those the legs piled up there too? 
DanK


----------



## DanKrager

DonW, the chips would give it away…

DanK


----------



## chrisstef

Hell yea id put em through a planer. I scrub 2 beams and i was whooped. Id rather piss through $30 in planer blades.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Not if i did some final smoothing and left the curls laying, Dan. I mean yes i'll be planing it flat by hand. lol feeding the planer by hand or i could use my bosch power planer.

No, that isn't the saw i will be using to rip the boards down. It's crosscut filed and i think a 12 tpi. I just used it so i didn't have to wrap up a 100ft extension cord for 1 cut. Still took a few minutes to cut it. them boards are a full 2" thick. That one i cut is a good 1/4" thicker on one side. I'll have to check to see if i have a rip hand saw. Except for 2 back saws i don't think i do. Anyone got a pit saw and a partner?  Also i don't own a trench coat. Would a bath robe work?

I actually haven't measured them yet. The top 3 or 4 look to be ~16' but the rest are probably ~12'. I'll have to get some measurements tomorrow.


----------



## Tugboater78

OjM i frel your pain on that lumber.. mines in the same shape, nails have me at a standstill and little projects like a new mailbox post, organizing my shed/shop, basement, carport, couple landscaping projects..put u wooden playset/swingset for nephew, making trim for brothers bathroom i gutted and rebuilt a couple months ago.. etc. See where im going with this..

Hoping after my next boat trip i can start on something..

I will have to scrub all mine down by hand..maybe rip with circular saw.. only options i have..

Oh i think ive decided on a nicholson style bench with a 3" thick top, with a twinscrew vice and using my granfather craftsman vice as a tailvice. ..


----------



## chrisstef

The glory you will have running those boards through the planer will be unmatched OJM. Its my favorite part of reclaimed lumber. The nails suck though. Maybe theyre better in a bathrobe. I dunno.


----------



## widdle

You guys are nuts ..but i definetly applaud your efforts…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

There gonna be some major galoot points handed out for these reclaimed benches.

Shed's finally done. Good thing, cause I hate starting another project until I finish the first. I think it looks alright with the rest of our backyard (looks a lot better than the neighbor's shed hehe). Need to rest up my back before I finish the tie wall/planter to the left of the shed. 

















Best part, my shop has really opened up with all that crap outta there. I have big whoppin space for a joinery bench. Need to take everything down and paint first That's gonna be a job!


----------



## chrisstef

Dang Red …. you get it done brother. Backyard is looking tight and the shop has opened up a little bit for ya. What style joinery bench you thinkin about ?


----------



## Tugboater78

Ahh paint.. looks googd brk i still gotta do siding and more.. damn wood bees..


----------



## mochoa

Very nice shed Red! Looking forward to seeing the shop transformation.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Red, that wall is definitely gonna pop with some finish on it. And yeah, it's a bear to clean it off. Been there, done that, but it's worth the hassle. Nice shed, too. Shutters a great touch.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys.

Stef- Still working out the joinery bench design. I would like to borrow some aspects from the roubo(mortise the legs into the top to avoid an apron) but it will be filled with drawers below. It'll be tall with some sort of moxon vise. For the top I just wanna use some 8/4 white oak laid flat. Do ya'll think 2" thick stock will be stiff enough for a 4-5' span without an apron? Thinking about a 10' bench with a 3rd leg in the middle.

Smitty- I'll be interested how long it takes to clear off the walls, clean and paint. At least I have an airless sprayer. Also, the pegboard will be gone. Planning on going to a french cleat system and a series of tills.


----------



## chrisstef

8/4 10 footers of white oak … sweet sister sara that's gonna be heavy! (BTW avoid using that term if you do in fact have a sister in law named sara).

The third leg (hehe) would just be in the back of the bench leaving the front wide open? I think it would be plenty stiff enough without an apron but that's coming from me, so, grain of salt and all.


----------



## OnlyJustME

It's a joinery bench so short of putting a timber frame house on it to cut a tenon i think it will be plenty stiff enough.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I was on a conference call and muttered "For the love of Pete!"... Sure enough, there was a Pete on the line who chimed in right away with a "Hey, what's that mean??"

Next time I'll have to try Sara.

EDIT: Try Sara as an exclamation. ^ That doesn't read right.


----------



## BrandonW

Stef, as long as you say Sarah and not Sara your sister in law shouldn't get upset. There was also a "Father Serra" who founded all those missions in California.


----------



## chrisstef

Yea except I didn't mutter it to the sis in law, it was said to the wife! That went over like a fart in a space suit.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Great progress shots guys! Thanks for rattling the cages Brandon.

Man Red you don't mess around. The shed looks perfect. You do excellent work; i can't wait to see your rendition of a joinery bench.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Tony. Best part about the shed was the savings. Tuffshed wants almost $4000 for a shed like that. I saved a lot by getting most of the wood at a reclaimed/ding and scratch place. Think I've got about $1300 in the shed. Not counting the cement pad which was paid with work/trade for a neighbor.

The shutters were made from white oak scraps. I think they're a little too small….oh well. I was going for the cute garden shed look.

I already have most of the wood for the joinery bench. But I really want quality drawer slides…and those aren't cheap. And ya Stef…IF we ever move one day, I'll gladly pay some poor souls to move my benches….and oak furniture for that matter.


----------



## widdle

Red..The shed looks great,Barbie should love it…


----------



## RGtools

Red. That shop is really coming together, and that bench makes for a great heart to it.


----------



## Mosquito

Well that's not good…










Pulled the middle of the maple dowel right out of it… even with a peg…









And no, I wasn't wrenching on it that hard… it was a progressive problem, I think. The chop was getting more movement in the garter plate for the past week or so. The chop could move in and out more and more until all of a sudden, I could spin the handle freely… hmmm, then it fell on the floor lol


----------



## OnlyJustME

I think i'll use steel hardware for my leg vise.


----------



## mochoa

What tha! did you turn a 1" tenon on that screw? or did the wood actually seperate?


----------



## BrandonW

Wow, I've never seen anything like that! best wishes putting Humpty together again.


----------



## chrisstef

Aww crap Mos. That just aint cool.


----------



## waho6o9

That hardwood had no chance with Mos and his Popeye arms.


----------



## jusfine

Wow, where have I been? 
Oh, right, working on my bench - seems like months since I checked in here.

This is a photo of my "almost finished" bench with Benchcrafted hardware, crisscross leg vise system.

Will post blog on it although have not taken as many photos as I have on previous builds. Beech bench with padauk end caps, dogs and leg vise. Gap stop will also be padauk.










I wanted a cabinet below so I could make banks of drawers dedicated to my hand tools, also it is longer than the WW plan. Will post more photos once it is complete.


----------



## Mosquito

I did not cut a tenon on it. That straight up pulled the middle of the dowel right out of it. I did cut a 1/4" groove for the garter plate to ride in, so it pulled the middle 1" right out of the middle of the part that I pegged into the hub. I did not glue it, so I should be able to save the hub easily, at least


----------



## mochoa

Mos the first thing I would try is to stuff that hole full of glue and put the tenon back in there. If that fails then try something else.


----------



## Boatman53

Mos, that is terrible. What were you clamping? Please tell us you were clamping something important.
Jim


----------



## Mosquito

I may try gluing it back in place, and see how it goes. I could also take it out of the hub to glue it too, but I think the camping the hub would provide is a good thing. I can try to get a closer picture, but it's not smooth, you can see the grain where it tore out.

Jim, I was clamping a piece that I am going to be using on my marking gauge for the tool swap. Ended up making the wagon vise work for what I needed instead.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Randy! Looking great, need more pics!

(Typing on the back of Hog's moped, on our way to IA…)


----------



## waho6o9

Clean looking bench Randy!

Congratulations on a terrific build. The base is unique, it kinda of reminds me
of a table top upside down.

You make that Benchcraft hardware look sharp, good job.


----------



## BrandonW

Beautiful work, Randy!


----------



## Boatman53

Nice bench Justfine. The next bench I build will be one with built in storage, not unlike a Shaker style.
Jim


----------



## chrisstef

Randy, ive been eyeballing that criss cross system. Have you had any chance to run it through the paces? Id love to hear some first hand reviews on the matter. Bench is lookin tight buddy!

Smitty - be careful on the back of that thing, both hands on Hog's handles, and don't let your phone vibrate in your pocket. We wouldn't wanna startle the Hog.

No progress besides a little shop cleaning and a bit of layout for the through tenons.


----------



## donwilwol

definitely need more pic's Randy.

Smitty, watch out for the bugs!!


----------



## OnlyJustME

I'm planning on trying the Croix de St. Pierre leg vise too. 

















BenchCrafted is making them, if you don't want to make your own.


----------



## Mosquito

Are you planning on making your own, or using the benchcrafted hardware?


----------



## mochoa

Mos, you know what is interesting about your catastrophe there is that the wood failed while the glue held. And I don't know how tight the fit was but the glue held without having to be clamped in place, it was just a friction fit (I'm assuming). If you just glue it back together it may hold pretty well.

Randy, that bench is looking amazing! Great work.


----------



## OnlyJustME

I was going to attempt to make my own.


----------



## Mosquito

Actually, I didn't glue it Mauricio. It was a tight fit, and just pegged in place lol


----------



## Mosquito

Cool OJM, I look forward to see thing. Blog material, hopefully


----------



## mochoa

Cool OJM, That will be interesting to see!

Mos that makes it even more bazar. I think that center "tenon" or core of the screw is just too small after cutting the garter groove and it twisted until it separate from the rest of the wood.

What if you cut that "tenon" off and replace it with a steel rod, then fill the hub and drill a hole for the rod. Then epoxy and pin both sides of the rod with a steel pin? That's all I can think of besides making whole new screw and cutting a shallower garter groove.


----------



## Mosquito

Making a new screw and cutting a shallower garter groove is actually what I was thinking about doing. I think 1/4" is deeper than it needs to be. I might try making it by means other than hand sawing and chiseling. Not sure yet.


----------



## jusfine

Thanks for the positive comments!

I started the blog on my bench build (during the winter), part 1 is posted and part 2 will go up tonight, part 3 Saturday and if I have any luck, should be able to wrap up some of the details on the bench this weekend and finish the blog.

Still have the drawers to build and install, though.

I have used the Crisscross quite a bit now and I love it - very smooth.

I have to give credit to Rob at Lee Valley for helping me get it as quickly as I did as Benchcrafted was backed up with orders when it was released.

I will write up a review for the crisscross when I am done this blog - there are a few little things you need to be aware of.

And Benchcrafted hardware is now available at Lee Valley - just in case you wanted to know.


----------



## OnlyJustME

I've been reading up on the bench crafted install instructions for it but any more little tips and tricks from hands on install is always helpful.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

An interesting leg arrangement noticed this AM at the Handworks event.


----------



## Airframer

Hey guys. We just got home from the Hospital and look what followed me home 



My workbench build may just slow down a bit more than it already has lol.


----------



## JayT

Well, Eric, if it followed you home, I guess you have to keep it. 

Congrats!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Nice job!!!


----------



## Airframer

Thanks guys!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Beautiful baby. Congrats brother.


----------



## waho6o9

Congratulations AirFramer!


----------



## chrisstef

Just gettin the lil guys feet wet in the shop …










Look out for the next generation of LJ's.


----------



## OnlyJustME

I hope his feet aren't getting wet, that means you got a leak or he does. 

We'll have to start a Kids Korner thread for their projects.

Looks like he's in the planning stage. What's he gonna make?


----------



## chrisstef

I believe hes planning on making a turd in that pic OJM. So far, thats been his finest creation and his favorite medium. I also second a kids corner. There's a gang of us with little ones rompin around. Your little guy and the planer shavings pic was classic.


----------



## widdle

Congratulations Airframer, good work..


----------



## mochoa

Congrats Eric!

Yes we need. A. Kids WW thread:


----------



## widdle

Great pic… He looks into it ..


----------



## chrisstef

That boy can shoot!


----------



## jusfine

I have posted a blog on my workbench build with the Benchcrafted hardware if you care to check it out. Thanks for your comments!


----------



## Sylvain

Mosquito

interessant reading about tension and compression in wood here :
http://thecarpentryway.blogspot.be/2009/10/bracing-situation-iii-tension-design.html

He says that :
the lenght of wood submitted to tension (in fact shearing along the grain) should be at least 7 times the dowel diameter.


----------



## superdav721

Grats Eric.


----------



## Mosquito

That is interesting, but I don't know I've seen any vise screws use anything that long…


----------



## Tugboater78

Congrats Eric!


----------



## Sylvain

Mosquito;

As far as I understand, the idea is to have a balance between the strength of dowell and the strength of the other piece.
So the dowell should be smaller. 
It is easier/cheaper to replace the dowell than to replace the main piece.

The screw of my great grandfather's bench was in one piece, so the problem did not exist.
The best solution is probably to glue the hub.


----------



## widdle

benchhookstrop…

!https://storage.googleapis.com/aws-s3-lumberjocks-com/mnh9zzn.jpg

And since i cant cut a straight line…this helps…


----------



## widdle

benchhookstrop…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Interesting strop Widdle. I would have to change my ways because I always pull on a strop…..unless a guy hooked it on the back edge of the bench…hmmm.
The strops I've made (and given away) usually have little silicone pads on the bottom to keep from slipping. Recently I glued some of that no-slip drawer liner on the bottom of a strop and I really like that.


----------



## widdle

yep me too….Ill have to cut off the hook…I was bored..


----------



## OnlyJustME

it's good for hooking the side of the bench too, which is the way i usually sharpen/strop (sideways). but i usually clamp it in the vise to do that.


----------



## Tugboater78

Well looks like another 3 weeks of not starting on my bench, too many other projects got put in front. Maybe next time i am home… ill post pics of some of the other projects later.. moat are not woodworking but very happy with them..


----------



## chrisstef

Yup, no memorial day workbench progress for this guy and a fun round of deck painting to be had this week. On a bright note im glad I went with a gas fired powerwasher. Ended up getting a black max / troy built / who knows what with a Honda motor. 2700 psi 2.3 gals per minute and its all a homeowner could ask for. It wont carve your name in concrete but it sure as hell stripped loosed paint off a deck, moss off the stoop and dirt off the gutters.


----------



## terryR

Sounds nice, Stef, can I come over and wash my nasty truck? 

Minor bench progress for me, too. I removed 100 little pieces of wood and brass from the top (marking gauges, ya know), and am ready to start work on the leg vise. After a trip to buy groceries today, I should be caught up enough with my chores, to have 3 days in the shop!!! With about 10 fans running full tilt, and me sipping hot coffee all day long.


----------



## chrisstef

Door's always open Terry but you know that we would have to go out and get it all muddy again right?

Looking forward to the leg vice installment buddy. Crank up the fans, crank up the tunes, and tell mama to put the coffee on Terry's goin to work!


----------



## terryR

Stef, when Terry goes in the shop, it's play time, not work! 

I'd rather hand plane a thousand boardfeet of sapele than mow grass for 10 minutes…


----------



## BrandonW

I just struck a deal with the neighbor yesterday: I cut down some small trees he had with my chainsaw and he mows my lawn. I see it as a win-win for me because I don't have to mow my lawn and I get to play with my chainsaw.


----------



## chrisstef

You any good at pulling nails Terry. Ill take the tractor for a spin and you pull the nails out of reclaimed boards 

Kudos on talking in the third person as well Terry. Stef likes that.

In bench news, im seriously debating buying myself Jim's chain leg vice jammy. If you're reading this honey (my wife not Bhog), fathers day is 6/16.


----------



## widdle

bench hook backing…Works good…


----------



## Mosquito

My birthday is coming up in a couple weeks here's hoping for a pair of those sweet holdfasts… maybe.

Took another look at the leg vise screw and hub situation. I might try gluing it before replacing it. But I'm not too sure I trust that to work. I'd be relying completely on the glue to keep things in place. But might as well give it a try first. I had made another screw before, but didn't use it because there were a few decent sized chips in some of the threads, but it may have do.


----------



## chrisstef

Nothing to lose on the glued up one Mos. Give it a shot I say.


----------



## terryR

+1 on the glue, Mos. It can't hurt…Try some 5 min epoxy.

Anyway to glue the Pieces together and run a pin through the joint? I can't remember how close the break occurred to the hub.


----------



## chrisstef

what the flock …. this is a gloat waiting to happen …. im sooo tempted to buy it, its literally 3 miles from the office

http://hartford.craigslist.org/tls/3836166287.html


----------



## waho6o9

Nab it Stef!


----------



## BrandonW

Yeah, snag it, Stef. Once you toss that plywood door, you've got a pretty sweet lil bench.


----------



## chrisstef

Im really into building mine wahoo but the vices are worth that alone. Im having a really hard time not buying it right now. AHHHHHH!!!!


----------



## terryR

Yep, the parts alone are worth that price! The rest is wood…


----------



## chrisstef

Emailed the seller …. lets hope I made it first!

I imagine I could steal the wooden screw for my leg vice and then ill have to incorporate that wagon vice into my new bench. Maybe scab the beech for an outfeed table.

This cannot be passed up.


----------



## waho6o9

Vises bro, with Stef's custom made bench, it's tough to beat.


----------



## chrisstef

Come on email !!!! Come on phone call !!!!

It was posted at 9:20, I emailed at 10:00 ….. I dunno if that puppy will last 40 minutes. I got cash and I can be there fast, just call me back.


----------



## donwilwol

I got cash and I can be there fast,

Was that the message you sent?


----------



## chrisstef

Lol Don, I went a little more professional on it stating im in town and can be there at their discretion. Im trying not dance around here waiting for the response but if I get the call back im out tha door. Sorry boss man, got some business to take care of!

Maybe I should try that technique though . either that or outright lie. "Its my brothers birthday next week and hes been really down on his luck and trying to make his way by building small wooden things for children. He would love to have this bench and I think it would really help his spirits"


----------



## OnlyJustME

cheater. i emailed him and told him not to sell it to you. lol (joking i didnt really)

i'd snag that too.


----------



## OnlyJustME

most times when i email and say i can pick up when ever they want i never hear back from them. when i say i can pick up tomorrow they'll email and say tomorrow not good how about the next day. people are weird down here.


----------



## BrandonW

I just emailed him: Got the cash and can be there next week, but I'll probably flake!


----------



## Mosquito

Dang 'Stef… that'd be a sweet score… At $75 I wouldn't even feel bad making it a little higher, chopping it in half, and making it a joinery bench…


----------



## chrisstef

You guys are dirty 

Im hoping that its some martini lunch soccer mom from this little affluent town selling off her ex-husbands gear and that the garage will be loaded with LN and Veritas hand tools as well.


----------



## carguy460

Anybody know if a regular old tap and die set like a mechanic would use will cut decent threads in wood? I'm not talking monster threads like vise threads but smaller stuff like wood thumbscrews and such…


----------



## Mosquito

You can try Jason, but it depends on the wood. I've tried using a die on oak, poplar, and maple dowels and none of them worked that well for 1/2", using the lowest TPI I could find. The tap should work fine, if that's all you're planning on using.


----------



## chrisstef

The face of depression 

The bench sold, but if the buyer backs out, im next in line. Lets hope the prospective buyer is a giant douche and flakes out.


----------



## donwilwol

Jason, I use regular taps to thread wood a lot. Here is another trick http://lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/24157

To bad Stef, that was a great deal.


----------



## chrisstef

I know Don, im kinda bummed but with the luck ive been having lately I cant be sour about it. That doesn't mean I don't wish for the buyer to get a flat tire on the side of the road, jack up his car, have it roll off the jack, and squash his fingers rendering him incapable of picking up the bench


----------



## donwilwol

hey, send a $100 offer. What's to be lost?


----------



## chrisstef

Not a bad thought Don …. Ill toss it out there. Maybe the buyer will try n haggle him down to $50 and the owner will tell him to pound sand.

Email sent to the buyer. I mean who doesn't want an extra 25 clams?


----------



## OnlyJustME

that happened to me on a grizzly lathe a while back. i was so pissed off. seller listed it for $100 and i was first to respond. set up a time to go pick it up the next day, i didnt even haggle the price it was so good. next day before i went to go get it i got a call and the seller now wanted $200 since someone else offered her that for it. Told her if she wanted to start an auction to use ebay next time and to go pound sand. Now i have 2 lathes that only cost $180 total.


----------



## Mosquito

Ouch OJM. At least she called rather than let you get there and then drop that on you I guess


----------



## carguy460

Good info Mos…I'm just trying to use what I have on hand to try and make some threads. It will be in oak, as that is what I have on hand too…I'm cheap.

Thanks for the thread link Don, thats good stuff. I'll give that a shot - I'm just trying to get a thumbscrew of some sort into a marking gauge.

Now that I think of it, I posted my question in the wrong thread…sorry for the distraction, but thanks for the help guys!


----------



## OnlyJustME

^Baby brain. all is forgiven


----------



## Mosquito

Pounded out the pin that was holing the screw in the hub. Problem appears to be a little bigger than just the middle coming out lol









I may not try to glue that together. Might just use the other screw.


----------



## widdle

Mos..Watched your vid of the #45 box…good work…
Could you add some sort of metal sleeve, sort of like a ferule between the the hub(?) and the round tenon..and drill through that ? I may be confused to what im looking at..just throwing it out there


----------



## bondogaposis

Anybody know if a regular old tap and die set like a mechanic would use will cut decent threads in wood?

Yes you can, very easily, stick w/ the coarser threads, drill a hole 1/32" to 1/16" smaller than the screw size. For a 1/4" 20 screw I'd rill a 7/32" hole then chuck a 1/4 20 tap in your cordless drill and slowly tap the hole. You can reinforce the the threads w/ thin CA glue after the threads are cut. Make sure it is thoroughly cured before putting a screw in there if you ever plan on removing it.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Got a few of my boards ripped. It's a beast ripping them by hand in this weather. Grain isn't half as nice as i was hoping. Got maybe 4 boards with nice grain and not loaded with knots so far. Might have been better off just buying 2×4s at the salvage yard. Got too dark to take a picture so i'll get one tomorrow.


----------



## RPhillips

lol funny to see all the Skater comments….I skated for nearly 15 years myself.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

It is a little crazy to see how many little skater punks became woodworkers. My bother still collects decks and graphics like I collect hand planes.


----------



## chrisstef

Ripping by hand OJM … I hope you mean with a circular saw. The effort youre putting in will pay off buddy. Ive stalled out on my bench build for a week now. Hoping today is the day to haul home another 9 footah. Milling this weekend … maybe.


----------



## BrandonW

Skateboarding and woodworking go hand in hand. I think one of the first woodworking projects I built with my dad was a launch ramp. Really, he did all the work.


----------



## carguy460

Ha! Thanks for excusing my error, OJM…Baby brain for sure!

Bondo - my Dad mentioned dousing wooden threads with CA…Thanks for confirming his idea! And thanks for the info!

In workbench related news, I think I may be finally nearing my workbench build…I've got a few windows to finish trimming out for the wife, then its on to finding lumber! I'm doing everything by hand on my bench, including ripping operations. I figure I'll be done by 2015, and should have hulk arms by then.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sweet carguy…..share your galootful journey with us here.

Brandon- Right! The days of deck screws and masonite holding everything together. I'm gonna pimp my brother to get me some of my early decks (Fred Smith and Caballero) to hang in my shop. That would be sweet.


----------



## mochoa

True, I made me a whicked launch ramp back in the day. Also made a pretty sweet rail slide.

I talked my parents into letting build a half pipe in the back yard. But then they caught me stealing the wood and that was the end of that. LOL.

If I only knew what I know I might have made my own decks.


----------



## Mosquito

was never a skater, but I did used to do bike racing (BMX off road, in the "youth" classes). But then I quit doing that and started mountain biking. I still didn't quit doing dirt jumps though… Used to jump my mountain bikes off of 3-5 foot dirt jumps. So much fun was had. No major injuries from it either, and only had 2 bad "crashes" Didn't brake anything though. It was a bad landing. Bounced, started rotating, landed again almost sideways, didn't ride out of it lol. Second was going a bit too fast around a corner that had a little up hill coming out of it. Went air born, hit a tree at about my wrist, and scrapped all the skin off from there to almost my elbow. That sucked, but didn't break my wrist or anything so all was good (apart from some bleeding, of course)


----------



## Tugboater78

I jumped off a 2.5 story house once, with a garbage bag as a parchute. Btw cheap garbage bags dont work well for that.. 
Nothing broken though. Haha..off topic but figured i would give ye a laugh.


----------



## widdle

Ojm..Give yourself a break and turn that load into a couple farm tables, sell them , and get some manageable lumber…
Do you have anymore pics of that fir ? Looked like mabye it wasnt old growth in your pics from last week ?

Stole alot of lumber as a teen…And karma got me a few times later and was on the receiving end…
Tug…Double ply contractor bags…Eddie would Go!!


----------



## Mosquito

only lumber I ever snagged was usually OSB and some 2×4 cut offs out of dumpsters at new houses being built in a new section of the neighborhood… Cops didn't like it, but we asked a few of the people that were there building and they said we could since it was just being thrown anyway.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

5000 for the Bench thread….woot woot!


----------



## Mosquito

oh hey that was me!


----------



## BrandonW

Nice work, Mos! But you used the word OSB on the 5000th post, shame on you!


----------



## widdle

I wonder what page we will be on when stef finishes his "8" square holes with his #71…


----------



## Mosquito

crap… I apologize for my disregard of all things appropriate…


----------



## chrisstef

Sneaky widdle …. Id bank on 5400 depends on how much gum/finger flappin we all do between now and September


----------



## widdle

The mortises…Last we heard you had six done cuz…You're there….Ive seen your work…monday… ..Im not workin right now…Im bout ready to drive on out there for a glue up, besides, i need a couple parts from New Britain Conneticut..


----------



## chrisstef

Lol yea 6 done but the last two wont be completed until i make the deadman stretcher. Cmon up widdle. New britskis about 20 minutes from the house and i could use a hand jointing the 6 footers. Do you do diapers??


----------



## Airframer

Ok, may be a stupid question but.. I need some Mortise chisels to cut the mortises on my bench with (Thanks for the heads up on that Brandon ;-) ) and was wondering what the differance between This Narex Set is and This Narex Set they have the same name but the handles look different. Are they the same chisels or what?


----------



## jusfine

I have the same Narex mortising chisels, they work great! I bought the set from Lee Valley.

I noticed there are a few vendors selling Narex, they all have different handles, I think they are all the same quality.

The handles on this set looks to be the same as Lee Valley's, without the dark stain.


----------



## Mosquito

I've heard that the difference is that the ones from Highland are metric (mm) and the ones from Lee Valley are actually imperical (actual inch measurements instead of the closest mm). I haven't tested out whether or not the LV mortise chisels I got are that exact or not, but they do work well, and quite frankly, if you're cutting tenons, it doesn't really matter.


----------



## BrandonW

Mos is absolutely correct on the distinction between the Narex handles. I have my mortise chisels from Highland and my bevel edge chisels from Lee Valley. Love them both, but especially the mortise chisels.

Stef, you're making great progress-keep it up.


----------



## Airframer

OK, thanks for clearing that up for me. Now… are there sizes that you would say are unnecessary or is the 6 piece set the best way to go?


----------



## BrandonW

For mortise chisels, I only have the 1/4" and 1/2" sizes and haven't really needed anything else.


----------



## AnthonyReed

"I wonder what page we will be on when stef finishes his "8" square holes with his #71…" - Gotta love Widdle.

Get to work Stef!


----------



## chrisstef

Lol, that's a serious challenge there from Widdle. Im currently on a deck refinishing project that im hoping to complete tonight and tomorrow morning. Weather pending.


----------



## terryR

Is a mortise chisel better for deep bench-sized holes? I've been following Mr Sellers the minimalist, who says just use the bevel edge I already own. Works for me, but I've never tried a mortiser…

...a good excuse to buy a new chisel would be schweet!


----------



## BrandonW

When I made the mortises for the through tenons on my bench top, I found the mortise chisel extremely helpful. It was a night and day difference between that and the regular chisels. They have so much more heft and are better for removing waste etc. To quote Bhog, "you can really pound the hell out them and they'll take the abuse gracefully." I'm a bit of a minimalist with tools as well, but I do find that having a couple of these chisels are worth it if you're chiseling big mortises.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Brandon! A night and day difference is a ringing endorsement indeed. Good thing I was sniped on a Disston D23 saw last night…now I can buy a couple of chisels!  Although, I only have one more deep mortise for this bench…


----------



## RGtools

Mortise chisels are a must in my book. You can do mortises with your bench chisels, but having a dedicated tool set up to take the punishment lets you keep you bench chisels sharp for finer Joinery tasks.

I own 3.
3/8 Old Marpls Chisel with a plasic handle. This chisel performed much better than I anticipated. I have no intention of replacing it.

1/4 LN mortise chisel. A Solid well balanced tool, that gets reaced for rather often. Holds an edge much better than the marples, but at 4x the price…it freaking should. My sole complaint is the socket design makes it a joke to get the chisel would if you ever get it stuck in a mortise.

1/2 Ray Iles. Every single thing that could be done right in a mortiser is done right. The steel retains it edge amazingly well even when kept at lower angles and abused heavily. The heft an balance are good. Most importantly it has some anti sticking and accuracy features that the other chisels on the market just have not mastered. Well worth the price if you like to bash out mortises.


----------



## bondogaposis

Mortise chisels are great, you don't need a whole set either, just pick up a few sizes that match your most common mortise widths.


----------



## widdle

Stef…Shooots, forgot about the deck refinishing project….

I find most of those mortising chisels way to big and bulky,I like firmer chisels..


----------



## OnlyJustME

I think the mortise chisel is the firmest one you can get, except maybe a slick.


----------



## Mosquito

I want to start getting some Ray Iles mortise chisels


----------



## terryR

Hmmm…Looks like Chris Schwartz (I can never spell his name) likes the Ray Iles version as well…Thanks for that mention, Ryan, I was Probably just going to knee-jerk and buy an LN. Not anymore. 

Mortising the parallel guide into place today…photos coming…


----------



## chrisstef

Yea Terry! Get your mortise on.

I second Widdle and like to use firmer chisels for the mortising, but then again I drill out most of the waste and don't just chop. I got a bevel edge stuck once and it bit me coming back out. Finger still aint right after that.


----------



## Airframer

Muchas Gracias for the info on the chisels guys  I think I am going to go with 3 of them the smallest one available, 1/4 and 1/2 . I also plan to slowly upgrade my Irwins with the Narex bevel edge chisels a couple a pay check. On that note.. anyone out there willing to repair this guy for me? Shoot me a pm if you could help a brother out. I don't have a grinder or the spare funds to grab one right now and this chisel needs a completely new primary bevel ground into it.


----------



## donwilwol

Send it, I'll grind'er up.


----------



## BrandonW

Nice! Don to the rescue.


----------



## Airframer

Sweet Don! I'll get it boxed up and in the mail. I had considered just replacing it but there is still a lot of good steel left on it and It's good to have backups available.


----------



## widdle

Hope DonW 's kindness rubs off on me someday… My grinding skills are fifty fifty at best..Fifty black…Fifty blue..

Apparently i wanted a Roubo..



























Post 5031, incase anyone is keeping track..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Ain't that clever! Well done!


----------



## RGtools

I just re-read my post from earlier…are my early morning posts aways that jacked up?


----------



## widdle

Rg..It's the beaver…


----------



## terryR

Widdle, you're a smart fellow! I'll have to remember that fix…

Here's a busy photo…parallel guide mortised and clamped squarely to the back of my chop…









...thanks to a heavy Oneway Multi-Gauge, and a ton of chiselling. Gonna pin this joint tomorrow, and hope to mortise out my bench leg, and put the vise together! Hopefully…


----------



## widdle

I appreciate that Terry…Using tiger maple was the fun part…But i think installing a vise that doesn't rack would of been smarter…ha…Looks like a fun stage of your project…charge it…fun..


----------



## OnlyJustME

Still a good fix Widdle.


----------



## lysdexic

Clever indeed!


----------



## terryR

Leg vise installed and working nicely, even without the wheel assemblies. I had troubles at the end of the day finding the correct washer to add the wheelies, and decided to leave them off. I'll make some washers when I'm full of caffeine tomorrow, or buy some in town later…

It's a HUGE sigh of relief for me now! That leg vise had me intimidated for no reason. 

I had to turn the entire bench on its side (again!) for the lower mortise on the leg…and decided to use this chance to fill some knots and gaps on the front apron. Gravity sucks, ya know. I filled the knot holes with Elmer's fiberglass resin tinted with oil paint. Got that trick from my best friend IRL who is an oil painter and woodworker. Awesome trick since you can use any combination of colors you want to match wood grain, or stand out. Yeah…I sanded the dried surface with the ROS. I wouldn't want that fiberglass crap in any of my planes…cough…cough…cough…

No photos since the battery is dead on the camera.


----------



## widdle

Cool..cool. Bet that's nice to have complete..


----------



## chrisstef

Terry - nice progress but you aint gotta lie about the camera bro . Youre holdin out for the grand finale and a final release of the bench pics.


----------



## terryR

How embarrassing…I've installed the leg vise on the wrong end of the bench…










...maybe I can just turn it around 180 degress?

LOL!


----------



## chrisstef

I knew it!!

Terry its friggin spectacular! Look at the glow on that roubo. Congrats on an amazing job buddy.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Holy crap, what a looker! She's a beauty, she's a beast. Very nice work, congrats on an outstanding result!


----------



## OnlyJustME

It's so spectacular it makes everything else look black and white! 
It glows even more when it's built the right way.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^Better.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, guys. But don't ya recognize that bench?

It's a stock photo from BC that Andy flipped backwards since he's a lefty.

Jeez, if I could build a bench that nice, I'd start selling!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Awwww….


----------



## chrisstef

Ive been duped!

Im blaming it on lack of coffee. How could i mistake a roubo for the english bench your building Terry.


----------



## terryR

Sorry, guys. I should've saved that for April's Fools joke…

My bench is a pine beater, humbly I walk across the road to the shop for a photo…


----------



## OnlyJustME

Hence my black and white comment.


----------



## terryR

I thought surely more of you would recognize Jameel's bench above…top notch indeed.

OK, here's my pine and red oak bench with leg vise installed…works nice! I haven't measured the max opening yet. Should be around 8".










I'll grab some washers in town this week and install the wheel guides just because I went through the trouble of making them. But, for now, I'm ready to drill some dog holes and apply finish!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Outstanding! Congratulations Terry.  Nice job man.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Beefy. You gonna add a tail vise?


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Terry. Looks like it's getting there…

I've still got that shoulder vise screw if anyone is interested let me know. My all wooden wagon vise has been working great 

The leg vise on the other hand… lol


----------



## DanKrager

Yes, that does look like a fine bench Terry. Now, I'm just curious what motivates the long aprons?
DanK


----------



## OnlyJustME

old so they hang a bit low. need a longer apron to keep them covered.

I think it's an english style? Helps keep the bench from racking and more stable.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, in the English style bench, the longer apron strengthens it as OJM said. That allows for the use of thinner wood for the top, but still getting a good reference surface for edge planing on the front. Usually drilled with holes in a stepping pattern to be used as a built in dead man, of sorts.


----------



## terryR

Dan, like my huge aprons?  English style. When I drill a few holes and add the Veritas hold down vise, the apron should look more useful.

I WAS copying the little student bench Paul Sellers uses…then it got beefed up a little. Then I couldn't afford the bolt on vise I wanted from TFWW at $260…so the leg vise got pencilled in. That's why the bench took so long…I kept changing the plan. I've learned that's a bad way to build…now. 

Yeah, Matt, I hope to add a wagon vise sorta like Mos has…not sure about the wooden screws, though, due to expense. I don't have a router.

Although…I found a nice wood screw and possible nut today…parts of the Rockler stool I was sitting on! Gotta look up how much that stool was…or if Rockler will sell me a handful of replacements. 

Edit: yeah, the aprons really stiffen up the whole stack of pine. This bench is quite stout.


----------



## Mosquito

Terry, I made my wooden screws using the 1 1/2" tap and die set from Highland. If you like, I'd be willing to either mail you the tap and die I have.

Or, you know, I've got that shoulder vise screw too


----------



## donwilwol

*Terry*, when you decide to upgrade that crappy old pine and red oak bench let me know. I know its a long drive, but just because I like you, I'll dispose of that thing for you.

That *IS* a *FINE* looking bench.


----------



## terryR

Mos, Thanks, but I think it will be a short while till I tackle the wagon vise. I'll def give ya a shout for parts or advise!

Don, what a friend!  I'll just go ahead and set it outside the shop so it can start to patinate, and make pickup easier!


----------



## Mosquito

I would have to say that Mauricio's method probably produces much nicer screws, but obviously you've seen the setup that it requires. I feel like 6tpi is a little small, but I also feel that cutting them with a stationary V cutter wouldn't be good if the teeth were any larger than that. Unless they maybe made just really spaced out threads instead.

I was going to say "either mail tap and die, or make one and mail it to you" but I figured the cost of having me order the blank, pay for shipping it to me, making it, then shipping the screw your way would cost a lot more lol

Otherwise, I'm sure you could try to hit up Mauricio to make you a screw, but honestly for the wagon vise, I think I'm glad I went with a 1 1/2" screw instead of a 2". The hub I used is 2" and I think anything larger would have made it look awkward on the end of my bench…


----------



## widdle

Very cool bench Terryr. The apron should allow for lots of clamping options…Good Work..


----------



## RGtools

Very stout indeed Terry. But it's missing shavings and tools all over the top. That is necessary bench garnish.


----------



## bondogaposis

Really nice bench you have there Terry, I'm sure it will serve you well.


----------



## Tugboater78

Very nice Terry!


----------



## JayT

Looks good, Terry.

For me-the journey begins.


----------



## OnlyJustME

That's one big solid leg you have there Jay.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sweet English bench Terry.

JayT- we're ready to share the journey with ya;-)


----------



## terryR

Thanks, everyone, for the kind words! The bench build has certainly taught me a lot!

I've been slowly collecting Veritas bench goodies…last night I came up with a little piece of pine to help me drill the dog holes straight. So, the next photo should have more eye candy! And I'll add a few handtools for Ryan. 

Cannot wait to build another…yeah, I'm sick…


----------



## JayT

OJM, lol, yes it would be, if it were one leg. That stack is actually all four legs in one clamp set up.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice, Terry! Looking forward to the pics showing it all 'tricked out' with goodies.


----------



## chrisstef

Dang JayT … off to the races.

Terry - there it is … that's real time glory there buddy. Like Tony picking up gerbils, its gonna look great all oiled up and covered in shavings.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Yes!!! Another bench build!!

Get it JayT.


----------



## JayT

off to the races.

Yep, stef, you got enough of a head start. Now to see if I can beat you to the finish line.


----------



## lysdexic

I know that I am done with my bench build, and I am a bit jealous of those who are currently building thiers, but these pics are particularly delicious. Of all the pics I took these might be my favorites…...

.......porn


----------



## Mosquito

Those are delicious pictures Scotty


----------



## chrisstef

Glassy and classy … scotty b yo!

JayT - if you beat me out I will sabotage your build.


----------



## BrandonW

Scott, those are nice and all, if you like precision and what not, I guess.


----------



## AnthonyReed

^ +1.

Nice dovetail box back there.


----------



## JayT

I am a bit jealous of those who are currently building thiers

Scott, I can certainly help you with that. Simply send me your bench and you can build another to ease your jealousy. BTW, nice bench build porn. Give all of us something to strive for.


----------



## RGtools

What a wonderful set of legs.


----------



## waho6o9

Clamps rock, yeah buddy.

Get some bench JayT, looking good as well.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I can't pass up chance to rub in the dovetails since Scotty chickened out


----------



## BrandonW

I love the pareidolia that the through-tenons, dt, and dog holes make. Mine has a similar effect, though not quite as cool as yours, Red:










Also, love that you quoted M&S in your signature.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

It is sweet, how you did that with the grain Brandon. For my knotty walnut legs, I really just had to go with whichever end looked half-way decent.


----------



## lysdexic

pareidolia (ˌpæraɪˈdəʊlɪə)

- n 
the imagined perception of a pattern or meaning where it does not actually exist, as in considering the moon to have human features

.....just in case that I am not the only one.


----------



## AnthonyReed

^Thanks.


----------



## chrisstef

Spring is in the air and I smell a bromance brewing. Brandon, you an Red have a lot in common 

What size are those legs Scott?

I cant let it happen JayT …. 7 of 8 complete.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Shoot chrisstef, You're mortising the wrong end!!!!


----------



## BrandonW

You're making good progress Stef. Also, Red just has good taste.


----------



## CL810

Scotty B thanks for that def. I thought he meant to type "the pair of doilies." ;-)


----------



## JayT

Game on, stef.

Monday night progress. Legs were squared by hand-I don't know why some people diss the #6. A 606 and 604 made quick work of flattening and squaring off the glue ups. That 606 is still my favorite bench plane. After that, legs were clamped back together and cut to length with a couple passes of a circular saw and some hand plane work to knock down the ridge that was left. Finallly, the bottom edges were chamferred with a low angle block. At the end of the night, here we are.


----------



## widdle

Game on apparently…


----------



## lysdexic

Stef muffin,

My legs aren't exactly square. They are like 5 1/2×5 127/256"

I still wish I had the sack to execute thru tenons on my bench. Oh well, something to which to aspire.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I can appreciate a no. 6 as well jayT. It's a good 'tweener. Small jointer, big jack. Anyway, nice progress man. I'm starting to miss a functional shop.

I did chuckle, because I kinda thought I might be the only other guy who knew what "pareidolia" meant;-) We're just well-read. That's all.

Edit: Scotty, I won't be doing through tenons/dovetails on my joinery bench. That would just be showing off.


----------



## OnlyJustME

How can you not do those on a joinery bench? isn't that sacrilegious or something?


----------



## chrisstef

Lol @ Stef muffin. Made me feel all warm inside. Like whiskey.

+1 OJM. No joinery on a joinery bench. Blasphemy.

JayT - you got me skeered bro. You made more progress in a night than ive made in a month. Im sending a crew over to soak the legs in water then turn up the heat. The ensuing twist oughta slow ya down a little 

So I was in the shop boring holes by hand when my wife popped her head in. Im standing on a step stool head down on a brace.

"Don't you have like power tools that can do that" 
"Yea, but theyre loud and I didn't want to bother anyone" 
"I can even begin to try and understand that" She leaves.


----------



## bondogaposis

"Don't you have like power tools that can do that"
"Yea, but theyre loud and I didn't want to bother anyone"
"I can even begin to try and understand that" She leaves.

I think your wife is beginning to realize that she married a cave man. Lol.


----------



## chrisstef

Lol Bondo. I dunno, there was something about it last night that just made me smile while I was standing over that timber. I was about half way through boring out a hole and I must have hit a pitch pocket. That smell came up and hit me, no not the smell of caveman farts, that sappy doug fir smell. I stopped for a second and smiled. Something visceral about it.


----------



## JayT

Stef, you are going to have to start at least turning on the power tools and making some noise so she knows you are actually woodworking and not just down in the shop taking a nap.

Oh, and you can cancel the contract on your crew. Once the constant threat of rain ends, the honey do list includes painting two sides of the house, all the trim, staining the privacy fence and creating a couple new flower beds. That will be more than enough to bring the bench build to a screaming halt. I'm hoping for another month of rain forecasts, both to finish the bench and we desperately need the moisture.


----------



## RGtools

I always get the comment "Gosh, I didn't even hear you in here". Nothing like being a wood ninja.

You will not get that comment when you bash out mortises.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

How can you not do those on a joinery bench?

The top of my joinery bench is only going to be about an 1 3/4" thick(8/4 oak). I guess I don't think through mortises would make as much sense on that.


----------



## RGtools

double post.


----------



## donwilwol

I think your wife is beginning to realize that she married a cave man. Lol.

Before you're married that's a good thing, after ….. not so much.


----------



## DaddyZ

Just try not to grab her by the hair & drag her into the cave…


----------



## Brit

Agree with Don.


----------



## chrisstef

Bless that woman. Me Stef, you Jane.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Let chatter, more pics pls. This smackdown is screaming for more imagery.


----------



## Mosquito




----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

A RAS bench with a vise (conflicted, perhaps, but still a bench):










And another oldie but goodie:


----------



## BrandonW

More pics? No problem!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Ouch


----------



## chrisstef

Off topic pic for Smitty.

Question: How do you dig a 1500 sqft hole 3.5' deep inside of an active hospital? 
Answer: 480v 3 phase micro excavator.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Okayfine, resume discussion…

EDIT: Wait a minute, Stef has a Good Picture!

A friggin' Micro Excavator??? That is cool. I would have answered '25 laborers with shovels for a day,' but that wouldn't have been near as fun as running a friggin' micro excavator…


----------



## chrisstef

Yea Smitty, laborers and shovels was the initial plan until the shovels made sparks in the compacted dirt and we had to be done in a week. That micro you see is one of 2 in the state that I know of. That lil bugger fits through a 3'0" door. One of our bigger guys couldn't even fit in it. He tried to run it with both legs hanging out of the sides lol.

Bobcat makes diesel powered skid steers and micro excavators with retractable tracks. Very cool machines but super tippy. Don't really wanna take her off roading, ive seen em tip and it aint pretty.

The guys are out there playing a game of "find the grade beams". Next up for me to looks at …. a 250' high steeple of a church they need removed (EDIT - 150' high). 1865 construction. Can you say chestnut timbers? Ill take pics Thursday when im out there.


----------



## JayT

Pics of 150 year old chestnut timbers? Sounds like wood porn to me.

Bring it on!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Yes please.


----------



## chrisstef

I hope theyre chestnut …. im gonna bring a #3 to inspect a bit closer. Who brings a hand plane to look at a demo job …. that's right … this guy does.


----------



## AnthonyReed

I don't care what Smitty says about ya; you're good for this planet.


----------



## Airframer

You could have gone smaller like this Canadian Who Digs Out His Basement Using Only Radio Controlled Scale Tractors and Trucks


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Have truck, will road trip for chestnut, Stef. I don't care what Tony says I say about you…


----------



## chrisstef

Y'all know that if I came across a boat load of chestnut we'd all get a little slice of heaven. And if indeed this is the good stuff you know im tellin the guy its oak 

AF - now that's some dedication. I unfortunately have deadlines and if that $350k MRI machine doesn't have some new slab to land on when its delivered im up ********************s creek.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

One more…


----------



## AnthonyReed

I spy a painted mallet in the natural raking light.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yeah, it's an oldie picture. Love that mallet…


----------



## lysdexic

I spy the goose neck of a coveted art nouveau lamp.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Me too Smitty 

Christef you get all the fun jobs. Your looking to hire help right? 
I've had fun on a mini excavator but never have i seen a micro before. Couple jackhammers with spade bits might have been faster. Would be a lot noisier too though. How much is that thing to rent for a week?

That R/C jobsite is cool but i think i would have lost interest in continuing after 4 cubic yards moved. Would have had them build a track for the r/c stadium trucks. that would be fun.


----------



## Tugboater78

I miss shavings, barges full of coal and tanks full of deisel are desensitizing me.. sigh 1 week down 2 to go..








Get some nice scenery from time to time though


----------



## chrisstef

I can always use a good hand OJM. That lil guy runs like $1200 a week which roughly equates to 3 man days so it was well worth the cost. Noisy is my middle name. Dusty is the first. Friggin demo guys.

Tug - hang in there brother youll be back on terra firma soon enough.


----------



## terryR

Love the old bench shots! Hope I can contribute soon. 

Last night, I admitted defeat, and ordered the fancy 82 degree countersink bit from LV. $25 isn't too bad for a bit. I have tried twice to turn a small device on the lathe which fits in the cordless drill and will accept sanpaper on the cone shaped portion sticking out of the drill. Just looking for pretty dog holes, since I know that pine tears so easily. But, no luck with my shop made jigs this time…dig out the credit card…

I think I will just build every table in the shop with a 3" thick laminated top, and hand joined legs/stretchers. Dog holes on every horizontal surface!  Then, even my pencil holder will have a secure place to rest…with a tenon sticking down in the dog hole. Shop towel holder? No prob…down in the hole! Tape dispenser…bloop…bloop…secure! Coffee cup…hmmm…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Terry, I just used a bearing guided chamfer bit on my router to get that counter-sink on my dog holes.


----------



## AnthonyReed

I believe Terry is router-less BRK.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

oh, sorry. I can't keep up with the galoots;-) Terry, do you intend to use the counter-sink with a brace?


----------



## JayT

A fun package was waiting when I got home for lunch. Inside was this little dandy purchased off of ebay.



















Two 1-1/8in oak screws and jaws a bit over 2ft long of mystery wood (the seller thought maybe mahogany, hopefully we'll know more once they are cleaned up). Came out of a mill in Rhode Island that was built in the 1850's. The plan is to flatten the jaws, add a stand of some kind and presto! Instant Moxon vise with character. The only question is whether to just do the vise or add a table to end up with something similar to lysdexic's. I'm leaning that way right now as I don't have room for a dedicated joinery bench. It will have to be set aside until the main bench is done so the height can be planned correctly.


----------



## Mosquito

Very cool JayT. I would say go for the table if you plan to use it for dovetails. The table will make it easier to transfer tails to the pin board.


----------



## chrisstef

Take your time on it JayT. Not like youre part of a bench off or anything 

Very cool specimen.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

JT, that is awesome stuff. Envy heading your way, buddy, so if you're at all disappointed in the purchase, send them my way for 'disposal.'  And the provenance part of it only adds to the allure. Cool indeed.


----------



## bondogaposis

Nice find, JT. I'm looking forward to seeing pictures of the finished Moxon.


----------



## terryR

Yeah, Tony remembers…I'm the one with no router. No decent brace, either.

But I love my cordless Makitas!


----------



## shampeon

Sweet vise, JayT. That'll make a lovely Moxon.


----------



## chrisstef

#5143 Widdle.

Stretcher mortises complete. 








(Legs shown Upside down for uhhmmm …. clarity)


----------



## AnthonyReed

Atta boy!!! Hell yeah Stef!!!


----------



## JayT

Nice job, stef. I gots sum catchin' up to do.


----------



## chrisstef

Pretty stoked to have finished that step. Thanks fellas. Managed to make a couple of cuts for the upcoming half laps too.


----------



## widdle

right on Stef….What are the half laps for ? Did the 6"x6""s move at all after you squared them up ?


----------



## chrisstef

They've stayed pretty stable. I haven't noticed any twisting or movement at all honestly. Im a little worried about the stretchers warping after I resaw the 6x in half but ill leave em fat and let them reacclimate before I mill them down to size. The half laps will make the through tenons from the legs up through the top.

I gotta thank you for the "Wonder what post Stef will finish the mortises" comment. It was a gentle little push that I needed to power through.


----------



## AnthonyReed

^ Did Stef just thank Widdle for a pimping?


----------



## Airframer

Workbench work in work!










How do you know your blade is sharp? Realize you capped the oak with a board going the opposite way and be forced to plane against the grain on the oak and still get no tear out and smooth shavings to boot!


----------



## lysdexic

On call again today. I post these pics as friendly but graphic reminder to my LJ brothas.

Mind your table saws!

21 years old. His finger tip was to mangled/crushed for me to save. Hate it.


----------



## Airframer

Hence why I have no desire to own one. Once I get finished watching Andy's video I'll be sharpening up my hand saws and that should take care of that little problem…. I like my fingers right where they are.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

OMG….


----------



## widdle

Gnarly…hang tough kid….
Tablesaws never bothered me on site. never had proper push sticks, lots of times set down on the dirt..never outfeed tables…Lately in the shop, starting to dislike…


----------



## chrisstef

Yowzers. As much as i like ya Scott i hope to never bump into you on a professional level. Sorry to hear you couldnt save guy's fingy. I wonder if it'll have the same effect in a case of road rage or maybe it'll fall just a little short.


----------



## BrandonW

Oh man! That just made me sick to my stomach.


----------



## donwilwol

yea, I didn't spend a lot of time studying the situation either Brandon.


----------



## BrandonW

The x-ray was fine, then I scrolled down thinking damn you Scott! I am glad he posted it though--it really shows the severity of the damage that those tools can do.

I could just see Scott saying in the ER, "Hey, hold there for a second, I want to take a photo of your hand to post on the woodworking forum."


----------



## OnlyJustME

That's a good thing to see right after dinner. Youchers.


----------



## widdle

What was he doing ?


----------



## lysdexic

Sorry Brandon. I would remove the pics but my one hour grace period has past. I hesitate to post these kind of pictures but, you know, its real.

The pic is from the OR. I get the nurse to take the pics with my phone. I should have written "get a Saw Stop" on the drapes. That would be quite a picture!

The fella was ripping hardwood flooring with his dad.

WHen he woke up he told us that he uses heroin "sometimes" and will need more pain medicine than most. At least he let me know.

I had to repair a couple nerves, a couple tendons, and a couple fractures on his other fingers.

He his uninsured. My PA says I do my best work for free. That always pisses me off when he says that.

Interestingly, I didn't have enough tissue to close his stump so I used the skin from his finger tip as a full-thickness skin graft. Thus, even though he lost his finger tip his finger print will be the same (almost).


----------



## widdle

Sharpen your pencil,circle it, soo you dont forget about it, and get back to work..


----------



## widdle

Interesting stuff…My hand surgeon was a woodworker as well..small world…

Pulled the guard off my 12" makita as i Was cutting an exposed 4"x 8" hip ceiling once on a little pool house..Went to lunch..came back and there was an ambulance etc..Turned out one of the carps tried to cut a shim…Took his left thumb off…...flush…


----------



## shampeon

Whoa. Maybe just a link to the gruesome reality in the future for the morbidly curious to save the tender constitutions of us wusses?


----------



## CL810

Scotty I like that you post these pics. Reminds how serious we need to take our power tools.


----------



## chrisstef

Ive got a healthy enough fear of tablesaws. Enough so that ive yet to reassemble a 3hp Grizzly cabinet saw and wire power to it. Ive seen my craftsman trip while cutting spongecake.

BTW - nice work doc.


----------



## robertb574

Thanks for posting the photos Scott. I need Reminders to keep safety foremost in my mind.


----------



## RGtools

I think of that stuff every time I fire up a power tool. One of the reasons I sold my TS. Still need to keep it in mind with my new band-saw though. Thanks for posting. It woke me up better than coffee.


----------



## donwilwol

I had a miss-hap with my metal bandsaw a few weeks ago. Not bad, but a reminder that a bandsaw is still in fact a "saw".

Its good to get a reminder once in a while.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

As tough of it is for some of us not in the medical field to see that, it is a very "real" reminder. And I appreciate you posting it as well Scotty.

I go back and forth as to whether my future includes a sawstop, or just using a tablesaw less. Another great thing about hand tools is having safer options for different cuts.


----------



## terryR

Nice work, and nice photos, ScottyB! I think I'll leave my tablesaw covered with rusty planes for a while longer. Of course, I'm not ripping flooring for now…

Don, be careful with that bandsaw…If I'm not mistaken, most power tool cuts in the shop are bandsaw related. I use my friggin bandsaw for everything…and tell myself she's the most likely tool to cut me every time I push the ON switch.

EDIT: my bad…looks like table saw sends more folks to the ER than any other power tool…


----------



## RGtools

^ I wonder if that might be statistical scewing. If people used the Bandsaw and the Tablesaw equally, would one send people to the hospital more often than the other? I think that the band is less used than the table overall, so people are less likley to be hurt by it by default.

I still just think based on blade mechanics a band is a safer tool. But still needs to be respected.


----------



## CL810

I still just think based on blade mechanics a band is a safer tool. But still needs to be respected

+1. The only point I would make is I think the band saw is a *lot* safer. No kickback, slower speed, less operator "force" to move the wood through the blade. Probably more reasons.

Michael Fortune (Canadian artist/woodworker, website ) uses a bandsaw almost exclusively.


----------



## donwilwol

first, I was using the metal cutting bandsaw, so the blade is less aggressive and slower. Plus, cutting metal you tend to have to push a little harder, so a slip is more likely, but less deadly.

I think even if the table saw and bandsaw were used equally, there would be more reported TS injuries. With a bandsaw you *MAY* have time to react to a foolish move, to at least minimize the hurt. By the time you reaction with a table saw your watching the blood flow.


----------



## theoldfart

I can attest to Dons observation. I have one nick from my bandsaw, not badly since I pulled away instinctively.

I spent about 13 years as a setup man in an envelope making company. I saw people try to put their various appendages in inappropriate openings! ie a hand between two fixed rollers with a gap of about 1/32". It went through. By the time we freed the hand from the machine it tripled in size. Watched another guy try to give himself a mastectomy in two right angle gears. The common denominator in all of the "accidents" was haste and not paying attention.

Darwin will always win !


----------



## TerryDowning

I have limited my TS use. I prefer handsaw, band saws, circ saw. TS is a last option for me and I'm very cautious of it.

Thanks for posting the safety reminder.


----------



## BrandonW

Darwin will always win!


----------



## DaddyZ

You never know guys, he might like his digits smaller, Easier to work with…



Seriously - That had to Hurt a lot.


----------



## Airframer

I'm going to repost this only because it is exciting news for me and it got upstaged by the informative pics that immediately followed lol.

After a 2 month stall.. progress is being made again on my workbench!










How do you know your blade is sharp? Realize you laminated an oak board the wrong way and be forced to plane against the grain on the oak and still get no tear out and smooth shavings to boot!










Now just need to trim and rip the face cap and then start working out the end caps and the wagon vise.

A mock up for the tool tray frame..










In other news.. all of the fir 4×6's I had for the legs have started pissing sap out of every pore so they are getting replaced. I will probably just laminate up some towby's or go with some ceder posts or something. I have to keep the replacements cheap now since my disposable income has been disposed of..


----------



## chrisstef

Lookin good Eric. That lil baby should stop sleepin so much pretty soon


----------



## Airframer

Wait… they sleep? When does that happen!?


----------



## BrandonW

Shavings are being made, Eric! That's a sweet looking Bailey 5, too.

On a related note, my little guy tried to eat a walnut shaving yesterday. It was stuck to the roof of his mouth. My wife glared at me because of it, but I'm blaming the cats for dragging it into the house.


----------



## donwilwol

Eric, they start sleeping when they are about 6.


----------



## Boatman53

When they get in their teens you can't wake them up.
Jim


----------



## AnthonyReed

And i hear it is really bad when they are in their 40's and you can get them out of the basement.


----------



## chrisstef

Is that a direct quote from your mother Tony?


----------



## ssnvet

Got to watch those freebies doc…. My general surgeon friend went 30 years without being sued, only to have an uninsured bar room knife fighter file a malpractice suit.

What's worse, his insurer decided it would be cheaper to settle than fight, and he had no say in the decision. So he took the black mark on his record and had his rates raised as his reward.

And he was never paid a penny!


----------



## chrisstef

Btw Tony mom wants you to bring her broom back upstairs.


----------



## Airframer




----------



## Airframer

Bench top laminate DONE! Final depth is 14".. that'll do I suppose. I also realized that I had failed to account for the skirt Dovetails when I glued it up so I think I am going to simplify the build a bit and steal a page from BRK's build and mortise and peg the end caps. Would that be strong enough to hold up against a wagon vise? I could also trim up the end next to the wagon slot and have enough to DT with but that would reduce the vise travel.. I am also a bit stumped as to how to continue from this point. End caps or base? Or tooltray + endcaps..


----------



## JayT

Looking good, Eric. That's going to be a great looking bench, regardless of what Brandon says about contrasting woods.

My progress tonight consisted of getting stretchers jointed and cut to size and then laying out mortise and tenons.

Smoothing out the table saw marks with the 604-1/2 after ripping to width.










No pics of anything else. Took a couple, but after I came in from the shop, realized that the marking gauge from the swap was in them, so no can show. Oh well, hopefully will get tenons cut this weekend and maybe get started on the leg mortises.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice work Eric. I did base before end caps and tool well. Made it easier to work on when it had a base of its own for me.

What would the travel be with and with out the end cap? Mine came out to be about 5.6" of travel, so I spaced my dogs 4" on center


----------



## widdle

Airframer…Good work pops…


----------



## Airframer

*Mos* - It looks like I would have just slightly more travel than you have with the end cap. Knowing that I think I'll go the dovetail route after all.


----------



## Mosquito

In all honesty, I wouldn't really want to put the dogs much further than 4" apart, as that seems like a practical spacing visually. Not too many, but not spaced out too far. Having too much more travel than what your dog spacing is doesn't make sense to me personally, since I find it quicker to pound a dog down, and pound a different one up than sending the wagon vise all the way to one end or the other. That may just be me though  (I also have a dog in every dog hole too, so that helps, I suppose)


----------



## Airframer

FINALLY! The search for legs is over… time for more glue…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Diggin the progress fellas.

Here's my wife's belated anniversary gift. An Iowa original since prohibition times. Hard to get. I got 'er made.


----------



## theoldfart

BRK, your'e such a mash oops! I ment mush. Happy anniversary. BTW how many?


----------



## dczward

BigRedKnothead - Oh yeah, that's my favorite. I like having some whiskey around to soften end grain, but that stuff is too good to use!


----------



## Airframer

I built a wagon vise today  Though not the one for my workbench but one to help square up my new legs.. 



























This #6 should look familiar to those who followed Mauricio's build ;-)










The lesson for today… don't get impatient with your glue ups.. for future reference keep the clamps on over night not 2 hours.. I got a bit of spring back on my glue joints when I tried to unclamp early and now they look like a 3 year old did them but they have to stay that way. Still plenty of surface to surface contact to keep them strong just a bit of an extra wide glue joint visible.

3 of 4 squared ready for trimming..


----------



## Whiskers

Thought I would show one of my "workbenches". I especially hate moving and cutting 3/4" and up stock and this is my high tech panel cutting and moving rig solution.


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice AF lol. To do the edge planing on my workbench top slab I used a clamp on a bench (sitting bench) as a planing stop. Gotta do whatever works until you get that bench done lol


----------



## JayT

Saturday bench update.

Tenons were cut. I only went half galoot-used the table saw to cut the shoulder to make sure it would be square and one pass down the very end to have a guide for starting the cuts square and then handsaws the rest of the way. Cleaned up the tenons with my 71.





































Then had time to hog out all the mortises with the drill press. The four upper stretcher mortises for the haunched tenons and one of the lower ones have been completely chiseled out and fit. End of Saturday night, here we are.










Feels like progress.


----------



## DanKrager

Nice, JayT. It's fun to see progress, and I don't feel a bit tired!
DanK


----------



## chrisstef

I concede!!

Darn sure looks like progress to me. Nice work man.


----------



## DonBroussard

Stef/Jay-So the bench off is finished? I just got my popcorn and was ready for a good match up for the next few weeks. Aw, shucks!


----------



## JayT

Don't believe it, Don. stef is just trying to give me a false sense of security so progress will slow down and he can gain some momentum.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Looks like JayT works my pace;-) Nice work brotha.

Whiskers- sweet uhhh mobile bench.

Douglas- That stuff passed up Maker's Mark as my fav recently. Checked out your website- pretty cool man.


----------



## Airframer

Well, however it goes you two will probably still beat me to the finish line…. and I had a 5 month head start….


----------



## BigRedKnothead

TOF- almost forgot, our 11th anniversary. It was actually last weekend, and it was the first we both honestly forgot. I'm sure it had a little something to do with my wife running a 1/2 marathon the day of. Anyway, better late than never. Doesn't fell like it's been 11 years.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Nice work AF. I like the ad hoc wagon vice.

JayT you are not messing around. Looking good.


----------



## Airframer

Does this warrant any galoot points? 1 down 3 to go..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^oh, hell, yes!!!


----------



## RGtools

^+1


----------



## donwilwol

Plus several points


----------



## terryR

Eric, awesome use of a miter saw! And, nice work, too. Can I beg the brand name of that saw and miter box? They don't look familiar…

Hey Ryan, how do you like the performance of your square saw bench? I'm about to build one…sems like everyone has splayed legs, but I'm afraid of the arithmetic.  Is that square one sturdy enough for ya?


----------



## OnlyJustME

Minus points for not cutting a square end with out the use of a miter saw, but not many.


----------



## Airframer

*Terry* - It's a newer Stanley. I picked it up off of fleebay for $10. The good news is that even though it is out of production.. the Jorgenson blades fit it 

*OJM* - I'll accept the deduction if it means a somewhat simpler assembly line lol..


----------



## Airframer

3 legs ready for mortising… 4th had to be tossed due to a horrible glue joint and a nasty crack down the center.. new leg gluing as we speak.










*OJM* - Challenge accepted… is this better? Had the wife take this while I was cutting the 20 degree miter on the bottom of the back legs..


----------



## OnlyJustME

yup. points added back. lol.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice AF, I went to a buddy's shop and used his powered miter saw to cut my bench legs lol


----------



## Airframer

Hah! Good, I was running a deficit I think lol.

Mos.. if I had a friend with a miter saw I probably would have done the same lol.

*Stupid Question of The Day*

What comes first.. cut the tenon then fit the mortise to it or other way 'round…


----------



## Brit

I usually cut the mortise first and then fit the tenon to it, but strictly speaking it shouldn't matter if your marking out is spot on and your chiselling and sawing it accurate.


----------



## Airframer

"but strictly speaking it shouldn't matter if your marking out is spot on and your chiselling and sawing it accurate."

So in that case…Mortise first it is lol!


----------



## RGtools

*Terry. * the square saw bench is nice and stable, but way to freaking heavy. Sawbenches get moved around too darn much to be that weight. It rocked for mortising and heavy assembly work, but with bents and a good bench you really have that covered. In short, it's a good sawbench, but there are much better designs to be had.

Made for a great base for my planer though.










This is my current favorite type of saw-bench. 5 pieces, Very stable, and takes about 3 hours on a slow day to make by hand. Two of these bad boys and you are set for life.


----------



## robertb574

Terry, that miter box that Eric is using looks like mine. He got a good price at $10.

Anyhow Stanley Miter Boxes looking the same are being sold at Lowes, Amazon, Home Depot, Tyler Tool and more. Prices range from $40.51 (Amazon) to $65 (Newegg).

Go here "http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=MITRE+BOX&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=20-800&SDesc=Adjustable+Angle+Clamping+Mitre+Box" or google "Stanley Tools 20-800".

I like mine.


----------



## Airframer

Well I'll be damned! I couldn't find a new one to save my life so I just assumed they were discontinued. It works pretty good but there are parts that leave something to be desired. The large open space right under the blade severely limits the size of stock you can cut with it and the handle has started feeling like it wants to pull off of the saw but it does cut pretty good and the action is nice and smooth on it. All in all it is 100% better than my yellow Bucks Brothers miter box.

In other news.. my Narex Mortise Chisels should be here tomorrow.. talk about good timing!


----------



## terryR

Thanks for the miter box info, guys. My best friend has a vintage Stanley he has been trying to throw away (give to me)...I think it's time to bring it home and check it out.

Ryan, thanks, I hadn't considered the weight! Sweet planer stand, though.


----------



## CL810

terry - Have you seen the Mitre Box of Your Dreams thread?


----------



## terryR

^Oh my. I had no idea what I was missing!
Thanks, CL!


----------



## JayT

End of the weekend



















Just a dry fit. Identified a couple tweaks that need to be made before glue up and still need to drill for drawboring the short lower stretchers, but the base is pretty much done.

And an idea of what it will be.


----------



## OnlyJustME

way to throw the curve JayT. 

Nice looking bench base.


----------



## DanKrager

JayT, that bench base does look nice and sturdy. I may need to look into doing something like this.
DanK


----------



## DonBroussard

@JayT-Looking good! Are you going to put a shelf on the stretchers? I put one on mine and it makes a great place to keep the hand planes handy. It's also a great place to store sawdust!


----------



## RGtools

Are you doing a split top *JayT*?


----------



## waho6o9

JayT making some serious progress, way to go Bro!


----------



## Airframer

Not as impressive as JayT's progress but.. Through Tenons have begun! Can't wait for my mortise chisels to arrive tomorrow


----------



## OnlyJustME

Are you using a rubber mallet to chop mortises?


----------



## Airframer

I was using it to cut the out line with the chisel. I need to make a heavier mallet next week to finish this up with.


----------



## OnlyJustME

If all you have to use is a rubber mallet to do chisel work, pm me your address and i'll get a mallet out to ya. or should i say a Mattlet?


----------



## Airframer

I appreciate that but I have everything I need to make one. I have just been putting it off. I'll get one tossed together tomorrow.


----------



## JayT

*Don B*, yes, I'll be doing a shelf. The plan is to run a rabbet down the tops of the long stretchers so I can lay in some 1x slats. Since the workbench is designed as a knockdown, I want to be able to easily remove the shelf. It should be an adequate space to store the Moxon vise, some tools and plenty of sawdust and shavings 

*RG*, the plan is for a solid top. The bench is based on Christopher Schwarz's Knockdown Holtzappfel workbench. Part of the reason for building it as a knockdown and out of construction lumber is to figure out what works and doesn't work for me and my space and have the flexibility to easily change and modify as things come up. After a year or so of using, I plan to build a hardwood top taking into account any changes/upgrades and install it on the existing base. If I do decide that a split top would be nice, I can simply pull the current top off, rip out the middle section and reinstall to try that out.

If any of you subscribe to Matthias Wandel's woodgears updates you saw this link. I feel totally inadequate after watching how this guy builds his bench-galoot all the way.


----------



## BrandonW

JayT, I liked that link to the woodpecker's bench build. I was kind of hoping he was going to leave the top the way it was before he squared it up.


----------



## chrisstef

Wow im feeling rather inadequate with all the bench progress being shown. I need to get on the horse here. Good show fellas.

Eric - Ive been lucky enough to be a recipient of a Mattlet and its the cats ass for mortises. Black locust and ultra mega super beefy. Im pretty sure my chisels shudder when it comes out of the cabinet. I don't even need to swing it, I just drop the head of it and it does all the work for me. I still haven't put a dent in it.


----------



## JayT

My favorte part of that woodpecker's bench build is where he is working on the mortises in the tops for the legs and says "I was starting to get the hang of it by the last one." I can totally relate to that feeling.


----------



## terryR

Yeah, you guys are making me feel lazy with all this weekend progress! All I did was mow and shop for groceries…

JayT, love your massive base! And thanks for the Woodpecker link…could watch that guy work all day! Must be the accent…But, seriously, did you notice where he was working? On a concrete pillar, with clamps that kept coming loose whilst mortising. and using a low bench for planing, another concrete something for a planing stop.

My point…he is creating a nice bench even with no shop. No fancy planing stops or miter gauges or routers or even a Workmate…just the will to create and a handful of tools. Ahhh, the simple things in life…


----------



## BrandonW

Yeah, that guy's accent is the best! And everyone needs a concrete pillar in their yard for woodworking.


----------



## Mosquito

*Terry* gotta start somewhere I guess, right?

I still haven't fixed my leg vise screw yet… hoping I can get around to that this week.


----------



## OnlyJustME

I counted 2 bench planes, 1 block plane, 2 handsaws, 1 chisel, 1 mallet, 1 marking knife, 1 marking gauge and 2 winding sticks and he made a work bench. oh and a concrete pillar. Kind of confirms Paul Sellers methods.

I guess all it takes is the will to do. i bet he would have done it with even less if he had to.


----------



## JayT

The other part of that bench is the lumber. Did you see how twisted and messed up those boards were when he started? Yet he finished with a straight and square bench.

OJM, I think you've pretty much got it. I did see two different mallets and using a pair of 2ft levels as winding sticks is just ingenious.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm surprised by the awkward heights he worked with at times; sawing the top at near-shoulder height, for example… Extreme GI on that build.


----------



## shampeon

What do you all think? Is there a workbench in here waiting to get out?

12/4 red oak:









Reclaimed old-growth Douglas fir 6"x4" beam:


----------



## BrandonW

Shamp, that has "workbench" written all over it!


----------



## donwilwol

oh, that's more like a *WORKBENCH* waiting to happen


----------



## chrisstef

Shamp stealin my thunder with VG fir, you ba$tard lol. If you finish before I do I will hunt you down and wizz on your bench before you oil it.

Just kiddin, great material ya found there … whats the story behind it? Reclaimed?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Get your bench on Shamp.

I'll have you all know that the only bench to have made LJ's "editors choice" .....has purpleheart;-)

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/77388


----------



## JayT

Uh huh. Shamp's gonna rock a new bench. As loud as that material is screaming "Build Me", I'm surprised you're not done yet.


----------



## OnlyJustME

It needs closer inspection to find out. Send it to me and i'll figure it out for ya.


----------



## shampeon

Chrisstef's Original Amber Wood Stain: for that extra special glow. "It's the potassium. (TM)" Supplies limited. 8^)

It was a Craigslist find. A guy over in Oakland got the beam from a house being remodeled in Castro Valley, but has to move now. I bought half of it, so he's got eight 48"-52" beams left. If any other Bay Area LJers want his contact info, PM me.


----------



## shampeon

Is there anything better than taking full length Doug fir shavings? Two sides are square now.

FWIW, I used a vintage (Millers Falls No. 15) and a Hock iron (MF No. 22), and both went through an old knot without complaint.


----------



## OnlyJustME

doing it Mosquito style.


----------



## waho6o9

Major score Shamp, congratulations my friend.


----------



## Airframer

Well look what was waiting for me when I got home today  This should make things a bit easier. I plan to fill out the set of these 1 or 2 pieces at a time over the next few paydays if they live up to the hype.


----------



## DanKrager

AF, I've been looking at these and will be anxious to know what you think of them.

I'm guessing because I don't know chisels all that well, but the "thin" 1/2" chisel might be called a firmer while the other 1/2" is a mortising chisel?

I'm interested in the thick mortising chisels because the rather thin Stanley 60s that I have just don't seem to have it in them to chop. They pare beautifully when sharp.

And maybe I just don't know how to use them!
DanK


----------



## Airframer

The thin ones are sold as Bevel Edge chisels so I am not sure if they are firmer chisels or just regular bevel edged chisels.

I bought that one to replace my Irwin Marples 1/2" that shattered when I was chopping a mortise for my changing table build. *Don* I haven't forgotten your offer to grind a new bevel on it for me I just figured this was a good excuse to get one of these to try out ;-)

The Mortising Chisels are BEEFY and I am just foaming at the mouth to start pounding on them but I need a better beater first and a good sharpening on all 3 of these. I'll let you know how they do for sure.


----------



## Mosquito

nice *AF*. I've got my full set of those mortise chisels, and I have liked using them so far. Though with that said, I would love some pig stickers too…

My one major complaint about those Narex Mortise chisels is that I wish the striking surface was larger on them… it dented my mallet up pretty quickly when i was using my wooden one…

And *Ian*, I approve


----------



## Airframer

Tossed together a mallet tonight to hold me over till my Mattlet arrives (Thanks OJM!! )


----------



## BrandonW

Yup, you'll enjoy those mortise chisels! YOu'll be wanting to chop random mortises just for fun, now.


----------



## Airframer

Quick questoin… how the hell do I remove this factory protective coating on them?


----------



## shampeon

Acetone, mineral spirits, lacquer thinner. One of those.


----------



## Mosquito

I used DA on mine to get 'em cleaned up


----------



## donwilwol

how the hell do I remove this factory protective coating on them?

its an exhausting process that pretty dangerous. Its best you send them to me and let me handle it for you.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, if those things work half a s good as they look….they're a bargain. I'm amazed I haven't snapped one of my cheap marples chisels using them for the wrong job.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sorry to regress, but I recall someone mentioned a bench drawer… I took a picture back then and want to post it now, before I delete it to clear space… (Oh, love the drawer!!!)


----------



## BrandonW

It looks like such a happy and hungry bench drawer.


----------



## terryR

Love the drawer, Smitty. Wouldn't surprise me to see a SW pull on it…

I was drooling over mortise chisels last night while filling out my Annivesary wish list…goodness Ray Iles gets a premium for his work! I hope to receive one of his 1/2" lovelies…no way to buy a set…even if they were in stock! But, I thought the big 1/2" tool would come in handy on the next bench…

For the price, I'd love to hear a review on the Hirsch mortisers since they are also tapered along the length, and have huge handles made from Hornbeam!

Eric, I'm also anxoius to hear your review of your new mortise chisels…my, my, why are chisels and gouges so alluring?


----------



## donwilwol

No "set" but probably something in there to get the job done. Always has been so far. Someday maybe a set will come my way.


----------



## chrisstef

So you're telling me that's what my future looks like Don? Appears that im in some serious trouble, I cant stop buying chisels! Im on a huge firmer chisel kick as well as anything Witherby. I love that steel.


----------



## Brit

Nice drawer Smitty and nice barrel too, but it looks like you need to borrow Tony's broom. )


----------



## RGtools

Terry, good pick on the Iles, that is going to make some big mortises for your bench.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Terry. Hope you get one of the Iles. I've been wanting a few of those for a long time… Maybe 1 here and one there every few months…

Hmmm, Birthday in June, then Christmas at the end of the year. Couple years and I'll have the set! lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ I went to great lengths to keep the shop clean by securing a barrel as shown, but it seems the shavings don't fall inside it with any regularity… Alas…

Tony, can I borrow your refurbed broom, Bro?


----------



## OnlyJustME

Chrisstef, once you start on slicks, that's when you're in trouble. Can't say, "it's only $5" on those.


----------



## jusfine

Terry, I have the Hirsch mortise chisels and you are correct, the handles are massive and beautiful!

I had broken my right fingers many years ago (horses), so it is difficult to close my right hand real tight. Figuring that the thick handles would be the best for me, I started buying one at a time over the last year, and this winter used them exclusively for the mortises on my bench construction.

The handles seem just a bit large even for my big farmer mitts, but the chisels are just a delight to use.

Will follow up with a formal review later this week w photos, etc.

I certainly would recommend them as a quality tool, and the Narex handles feel quite small after using the Hirsch.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

My poor old bench was having a tough go as a shapending station. Decided to give it a fresh flat top. This is so much funner when you get decent with hand planes:








Little heft and hubris.








That pine makes some pretty shavings. Even with an old SW iron;-)









Mucho better. Couple coats of poly to protect it now.


----------



## Mosquito

Workmate!

Bench looks better with a clean shave


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, that's how you know the kiddos were out there Mos. That's "their bench";-)


----------



## terryR

Thanks, jusfine, I may try one out!

Mos, even IF my credit card could handle it, a full set of iles mortise chisels just can't be found. So, I'll have to settle for one this year, one next year…  And maybe one Hirsch, one LN, one Sorby.

Nice shave BigRed. Love that heft and hubris…with a SW iron! I'm very jealous!


----------



## chrisstef

Baby steps .. Cut stretchers to rough length. Pulled any metal (read 4 staples). Up next; Joint, rough plane, resaw, resize, finish plane, cut tenons.


----------



## BillWyko

Speaking of Mortises, I finally got my stretcher materials. I'm doing the M&T's right now to join the legs from one side to the other. The holes prevent splitting past the cut. I'm using the bench vise upside down sitting on a fold up table LOL.


----------



## HuskerHardwood

Hello everyone, I am new to the site, and new to forums in general, so I don't really know the best way to go about this. I am in the process of building a smaller (6 ft long) version of the 21st Century Workbench. I have studied several other peoples versions, and found the videos that Rob Bois posted very helpful. I just mounted a 7 inch end vise to it and would like some advice on the dog hole placement.

It turns out if I align the dog holes with the bench stop that can be raised up on the vise, it would put the holes along one of the seams of the top's laminations. The top is made from white ash, and each of the laminations is about 1 5/8 inches wide by 3 inches thick (tall). I know they always say that the glue is stronger than the wood, so is there any reason NOT to drill the dog holes on the seam between two laminations?

I know that I could just add my own dog hole in the vise's front chop that would not be centered on the vise, but I thought it would be handy to use the vise's bench stop for quick clamp ups. I would appreciate any insight.

Thanks!

When I get it all done I will try to learn how to post pictures…but it won't be nearly as nice as what I am seeing here already. There are a lot of talented woodworkers here. I just hope to keep getting better, and still have fun doing it!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Here's the bench Rob Bois that rodelco referenced: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/13994

rodelco- I wouldn't worry about weakening the top by placing dog holes near or in the middle of laminations. If it's properly glued, shouldn't be a problem. 
As far as dog hole placement- it's really a preference. I would ask yourself how often and in what way you use hand planes. Check out other benches and get ideas as well. You can see, I don't have my dog holes very close to the front edge like a lot of others. And I have a row centered on my end vise. I very nearly put two rows spaced on the outer edges of my end vise. It's really what works best for you. I'm sure these guys will have some other good input for ya.


----------



## widdle

Mayday..mayday…mayday…Chop chunk missing









Should be somewhere in pic below..Please call if seen or found..


----------



## Brit

Bummer!


----------



## lysdexic

I see it. It's over by the white bucket.


----------



## terryR

Welcome aboard, Rod! Thanks for asking about dog hole placement…I wanted to ask the same question since that is next on my list! The way I see it, the fewer the better…you can always add more. Hopefully another expert with a finished top will add more insight…

Widdle, I saw the chunk missing once, but can't find it again!  Better chamfer the whole front edge so it matches.


----------



## BrandonW

The inevitable tear-out on the vise chop. It's a good thing we don't baby our benches! Here are some scratches I put on mine recently:


----------



## chrisstef

Yup id chamfer the chop widdle. Lookin good brother. Sorry bout the chunk out.


----------



## Mosquito

I chamfered my chop all the way around and I still managed to have blow out on one side lol Oh well, it still works fine 

Rod, I don't really see a reason not to put the dog holes on the seam if that's where you want them. Lots of people will laminate in square dogs which puts the dogs right between two seams. I'd look at how far that puts it from the front of the bench, and what kind of pieces you work on and with what tools. I have my dogs centered on 2" from the front of my bench, since I do all hand tool work on it, with a lot of planing, and usually narrower stock.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Rod, I believe the dog holes along the front of my bench are centered about 3 1/2" - 4" from the edge, to center up to an 8" board with full support.

For deciding spacing between, take measure of the total travel range of your endvise and cut it in half. That's the starting point for spacing dog holes, IMHO. Vary to shorter spacing from there based on what looks good to you.


----------



## widdle

Still looking, thats what i get for trying square up material with hanplanes…Chop was just an innocent bystander..


----------



## chrisstef

It was a drive by chipping huh Widdle. I bet it was this guy. But im sure hed have a tough time helping ya find the missing chunk.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I thought Andy found it for you…


----------



## chrisstef

Edit:

Err - im downsy, Smitty. I got it.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Look at Brit's post #5294 chrisstef.


----------



## widdle

Him and me with my dime store glasses,was a hawk on the jobsite..now i cant see chitmon..
Im printing out Andys pic know and gonna take it in the shop…

The best part was, I was one pass away from a full length shving with the # 7 and Bam…what ?...Thought i bent the sole of the plane..checked it out…no damage…Ready for my final pass…must of racked the blade..huge 2' gouge out of my material…haha..


----------



## chrisstef

How do you guys feel about $65/hr for milling charge? I was quoted that to square up my 6.5' timbers for the bench top. Ive been waffling over having it done by someone, im not sure I can handle that kind of weight solo on a 6" jointer safely. Im sure I could add some deadmen to help out but man would it cut down on the hard work in a small shop. IMO that would be a pretty fair price for my neck of the woods.


----------



## widdle

Is that what your doing for the top ? 6" x 6" s?.. I say do it..why beat yourself up..Can you do it solo? yes..You"ll still have plenty work to do ..6" jointers are for edge jointing 1X..worthless..


----------



## chrisstef

Yup 6"x6" for the top too Widdle, well 5×5 when all said and done.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

guess it depends, stef, on how long they say it'll take…


----------



## Mosquito

That's what I was thinking Smitty… It shouldn't take THAT long, should it?


----------



## chrisstef

I kept the "squarest" ones for the top so I couldn't imagine it taking more than 2 hours. With a 20" oliver jointer and a 7' bed on the beast they should be able to handle it fairly quickly. Id even lend a hand if their insurance would allow it.

It took me no longer than an hour to do 4 4 footers on my jointer at home and they were twisted up pretty good.


----------



## widdle

If you were nice , you could have em rip em in half and make a bench for Tony…


----------



## chrisstef

Easy now lol. I had to undercut that job to get those timbers.


----------



## widdle

It took me no longer than an hour to do 4 4 footers on my jointer at home and they were twisted up pretty good.
Exactly…Post pics tomorow…thanks….Glue it up…


----------



## OnlyJustME

Stop wimpin out and go galoot. Do it by hand with the heft and hubris.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah stop being a woos and do it by hand.


----------



## JayT

Even paying someone else to mill the top, you are way behind, dude


----------



## donwilwol

Hike up your skirt Nancy, take off the high heels and stop waffling for crying out loud!

;-)


----------



## chrisstef

Wow, go out for a scope review and get beat up, come back to the thread and get beat up some more.


----------



## donwilwol

Sometimes tough love is the best approach


----------



## chrisstef

lol wouldn't have it any other way Don.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Doesn't seem like a terrible price to me Stef. Can't imagine it would take more than an hour if they have a jointer that size. It would be tough to handle those on your jointer without help. That's where retired neighbors come in handy.

Well there's a lumber rack and joinery bench somewhere in here. I love lumber run day.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"Hike up your skirt Nancy, take off the high heels and stop waffling…"

How can you not love that kind of tough love…


----------



## OnlyJustME

You're just lucky pops didn't name you Sue. Thats some real hard love.


----------



## theoldfart

*BRK*, isn't it amazing how much you can stuff in a Tacoma? Best toy box ever.


----------



## mochoa

hahaha, I'll tell you what Stef, if they could square them all up in an hour, it sure would be tempting….


----------



## chrisstef

Ojm - pops wanted to name me domenic. Big moms squashed that with the quickness lol. Anything but Sue!

I think im gonna take my supplier up on jointing the timbers. I figure ill budget them 2 hours and if they can get to planing a few to size as well, bonus. I figure money well spent saving my time and my back.


----------



## terryR

Stef, do ya have a router? Ever seen one of those router-based jigs for flattening boards or whole bench tops? My best friend, the power tool only guy, uses a jig to flatten everything now…forget the planer. from twisted boards to glued up panels, I have watched in amazement how quickly the router can flatten wood!

Here is an article from Highland Woodworking…

And here is a photo from fellow LJ Oldtool's projec,










Of course, it might be worth the money to get it done quick, and watch that huge jointer in action!


----------



## donwilwol

Stef, I was driving earlier so didn't want to type it all. Here is what I really think…..Hike up your skirt…....uh, sorry, already said that!

I don't think $65 is a bad per hour rate, but it sounds higher than your average woodworker I think. That said, here is what I would do. Order 4 of these (they are even on sale), its still less than $65, it should allow you to joint them yourself, and you've got the handy stands for future endeavor's.


----------



## widdle

65 bucks an hour, for a buisness with heavy machinery…cheap…


----------



## widdle

Red..What kind of lumber are we lookin at there ?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

OF- love me some toyotas. Probably why I have 4 of em;-)

Widdle- Little hard to tell in the sunshine, the 8/4 is white oak for the legs and top. The 4/4 on left is walnut for drawer fronts.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, 4 of them?


> ?


 Got just one, 110,000 on it since '04. Heading to Maine this Saturday bikes, kayaks and what ever rust I find. For those in the know Liberty Tool and Hulls Cove!!!!


----------



## chrisstef

Don - im all for hiking up my mini, trust me, youd like it . Im just havin too much fun with my little man to spend the time id like to on the bench to make the progress. I mean how could you tear yourself away from this face?


----------



## OnlyJustME

Money well spent then.


----------



## chrisstef

Lately it seems ive got more money than time which is kinda strange. I guess im torn about the whole "i made it" thing but i think ill get over paying someone to do what will probably take me 2-3 weeks to accomplish, in an hour lol.

I guess i just needed to air it out. Ill farm it out. 
.
..
...
I think.


----------



## OnlyJustME

the real question is 
Is it holding you up on other projects that need to get done? If not and this is the only project you have at the moment are you really constrained for a dead line? Can you take the 3 weeks to do it so you can say it was 100% done by you all by hand?


----------



## chrisstef

Not holdin me up at all but its also last on the list behind house projects. Also no dead line and i sure could take the time to do it myself. Gettin all Dr. Phil on me.


----------



## OnlyJustME

and how does that make you feel?


----------



## widdle

Whoa..Kids got some chompers…


----------



## chrisstef

Ojm - i dunno lol. But ….

This:


----------



## OnlyJustME

You'll feel better in the long run. You would have hated spending the time on the legs and then not the top.


----------



## chrisstef

"Jus … get .. that dirt off ya stretchers"


----------



## widdle

Is that what the mill guy said ?


----------



## JayT

Here we are. Tweaks made, ends glued-one is done the other just went into clamps










Stef, you're forgiven for being behind to spend time with the little man. Keep your priorities straight. (But I'm still going to give you crap if I finish first)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh give Stef crap. He gives everybody crap;-)

JayT I've noticed you and some others make the base, then the top to fit. On my bench, I made the top and the base to fit. I guess with the through mortises on the top, it just made more sense to me that way. Now you've got me wondering how I will do it on my joinery bench.


----------



## Mosquito

I did top then base as well


----------



## JayT

I think either way works. In my case it was a combination of space (the knockdown base pieces are easier to store as the top is built rather than vise versa) and how I am planning to build the top that made doing the base first a better option.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I had the top cleaned up and glued up for weeks before I figured out an approach to the base.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, either way works. I did really like just marking the stretchers to length with the legs dry fit. That's how I do it with furniture. I don't really measure after initial dimensions. I just mark the on the actual piece. I guess that's good hand work habits.


----------



## waho6o9

Farm it out Stef, it will be perfectly Done.


----------



## donwilwol

yea, the "work, life, hobby" balance is a whole other argument Stef. You can't win on that front. When its a waffle about technique or ability its one thing, but spending quality time with the little guy is another. I'm still not sure what the rush is, but also understand wanting a sense of progress. When I re-did my kitchen it would have been cool to build my own cabinets. My store bought work and look just fine, and didn't add a year to my already way to long of a project.

*Edit:* Just don't let the little guy see you in the skirt and high heels. It will scar him for life!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"I don't really measure after initial dimensions. I just mark the on the actual piece."

Exactly…


----------



## chrisstef

Lol Red - I definitely deserve any crap that comes my way, matter of fact, I relish it. Sup with the muck boots in the pic bro? Doin some concrete work or are those your Ugg's? Hard to tell.

I went legs first this time instead of my usual top first because I always get such great satisfaction from creating the business end (the top) of a project then trudge through the more tedious and harder part of legs and stretchers. I figured I might as well start with the harder part this time. That and once ive got the top made up, I don't wanna have to move it around too much. Shes a gonna be heavy.

Don - ill keep my bedroom attire away from the little guy, youre right, hes too young to understand lol. Work, life, hobby … exactly. Im confident that I could do the work and do it well. Why im in a rush, who the hell knows, just tryin to keep up with the Jones's I guess. Im gonna let everyone's thoughts and opinions marinate for a while as I work the stretchers. Then ill make my call. Good arguments both ways. I appreciate all the insight.


----------



## OnlyJustME

I let the Jones go ahead and work out all the kinks or flush out the cops. As long as you're working on it and it's not just sitting there (like mine) it's all good. Don't have the room in my shop yet and all this rain is killin my drive way shop.


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## donwilwol

I don't know about the Jones, but I was 50 before I built a "real" bench. I love the bench but don't believe it improved my work quality. It did up the cool factor though.


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## JayT

I don't know that the new bench will improve my work quality as much as it will lower frustration levels. The utility bench I currently use is very solid and worked fine for power tool work, but just doesn't have the clamping and workholding flexibility needed for hand tools, especially planes. In addition, the size of the new bench will allow me to reorganize and gain quite a bit of storage space.

Just don't let the little guy see you in the skirt and high heels. It will scar him for life!!
I just figured with Stef as a father, he was probably deeply scarred already ;-)

*Edit*: I don't really measure after initial dimensions. I just mark the on the actual piece
Learning to mark instead of measure allowed my woodworking to take a big jump in both quality and efficiency.


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## chrisstef

+1 JayT to all of the above, well, minus the whole scarred for life thing  He's just gonna grow up with a good sense of humor, chicks dig that.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'd say without a doubt a good bench has improved my work.

Don't know how I held anything still to mark, or cut, or saw, or chisel, or nail so it must not have been done with any reasonable precision at all. Never made casework for that reason, probably.

Now it's all within reach, and so is a level of quality that was only considered a remote possibility before a bench arrived on the scene.

That that's just me, you're mileage may vary.

Now for a (triple-posted) picture: Ran a clamp through a dog hole today, and it was good.


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## widdle

Totally agree with smitty…That's why i give stef stink…Vises , dog's and holdfatst, etc make working soo much more enjoyable..


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## donwilwol

I think it maybe the definition of a good bench. A couple of saw horses with good heavy planks can be made to work as a decent bench. Its just not as nice. For a long time I had 2×6 framing and 3/4" plywood. It was strong and sturdy and to fasten anything I didn't mind driving screws and blocks as needed.


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## chrisstef

I find my current bench to be the definition of a not good bench. Too wide to reach all the way across, no dog holes, poor vice placement and not dead flat. I get by yes but some tasks are miserable such as face planing. A new proper bench will make shop time that much more fun and productive. But nuff lab flappin, it aint gonna build itself, stef's got work to do.


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## widdle

Plane stops and wedges are something to consider..

Im a poser..


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## BigRedKnothead

Stef- that' one of my retired neighbors with the sweet moon boots. Those guys were a lot of help with my bench build. But the put a dent in my beer fridge. And obviously were just givin you crap about your pace. Years from now your kids will be gone and you'll have nothin but time for woodworking. Enjoy it now. Least that's what I keep telling myself. I'm the worker bee type and I need to be reminded of that often.
It does get better as they get older. My kids go on lumber runs with me. They have their own little hand tools in which the have their way with my scrap bin. Good stuff.

I don't know if a good bench has improved my work per say….but hand tools definitely have. And it's tough to do hand work without a good bench.


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## WhoMe

Well. I can tell you that for me, a workbench would be a HUGE improvement in all aspects of my wood working. Currently, my workbench consists of the top of a contractors table saw on wheels that don't keep it still when I do any sort of planing. Oh, I do have a workmate but the only time I use that is on a jobsite. I never make the effort to pull it out from behind the table saw and use it. 
So, I am looking forward to the day when I can buy the wood and make myself a nice STABLE and functional workbench with vices to make life nice.


----------



## OnlyJustME

No need to buy wood WhoMe. I got some old floor joists for free off of C-list. Yes they are pine but it does a fine job as a bench as any other wood and will be just as stable if built properly. Just might not look as good.


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## widdle

Whome..I got 4- 2×12 10( ?) your welcome to them ..I ll even rip em to whatever you need, enough for a funky top, or a smple base..al yours


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## widdle

Slow over here..gonna go check out stumpynubs..


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## BrandonW

Slow over here..gonna go check out stumpynubs..

And we lost another one.

I like the idea of pine bench, especially if the wood was free!


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## chrisstef

Happy Pappy's Day to all the dads out there.


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## JayT

Stef, gettin' skeered yet, bro?


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## JayT

WhoMe, no reason construction lumber won't make a good and inexpesive bench. Terry's above is a great example and I will have less than $200 in mine, including both vises. If you can pick up some reclaimed 2x stock for free, even better. Scroll up a couple pages and check out the Woodpeckers bench I posted a link to. He built a decent bench with some pretty gnarly scrap lumber and some basic hand tools.


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## OnlyJustME

no split top JayT? or are they just clamped together?


----------



## JayT

Nope, I've never quite figured out what the allure of a split top is, so we're starting out with a solid top. If after using it for a while, I decide split would be better, I can pull it off, rip a section out of the ceter and reinstall.


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## BigRedKnothead

WhoMe, no reason construction lumber won't make a good and inexpensive bench.

True dat. My first bench was Schwarz's $175 workbench. $75 of that is the vise. SYP would be ideal, but I just used common pine from a home center. I've used the tar out of that thing and it was a fun build.


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## chrisstef

I think ya got me licked JayT. Youre killin it. All i can say is, Got VG?


----------



## OnlyJustME

Got half of my top planed down and glued up. Of course as soon as i started gluing it, it started to sprinkle rain drops and i had to rush. Just a little bit sloppy but it will clean up.



















I'm gonna try a split top. I think the tool well in the middle will come in handy


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## chrisstef

Great progress OJM. There's gonna be some cool reveals around here in the coming months.


----------



## widdle

Good action boys….
Ojm ..Good work, are you doing everything with handtools ?


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## BigRedKnothead

Nice action fellas. This 2×16" oak board will probably be used on my joinery bench. It was a little to heavy to run across the power jointer. So it got the ol' heft and hubris no. 8. Btw, my roubo didn't budge. 









The little Starrett in the pic was one of my Father's Day gifts;-)


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## OnlyJustME

I'm using a Dewalt 734 bench top thickness planer to clean up the sides for glue up. These are old rough cut floor joists with a lot of super hard knots in them. It would take way too much time to do that by hand plane. All the joinery and trimming will be done by hand tools. I just have to find some one to do it. lol 
I'll flatten and smooth out the top by hand too.


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## terryR

Nice looking work shots, guys!

Stef, those square timbers look HUGE!

Red, that's a cool photo with jointer and jointer…schweet how the bench holds on to the massive work piece too large to balance across the power tool. Only a No.7 here for my partial heft and hubris.  Will catch up soon…

OJM, love the old wood. Just think of all the stories it could share! I've gotta start on a search for free reclaimed timbers…


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## terryR

I'm putting off the completion of my bench as long as possible…so I can still hang out here and have a build in progress!


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## mochoa

Nice pics, thats one thing I miss about the workbench build, working the big timbers.


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## OnlyJustME

I'm sure *that's* the reason Terry. lol
The old pine is pretty nice. No idea what kind of pine. It's still got that old orange/amber hue to it even after planing it. It's quite heavy too. The top is only 11" wide x ~4-1/2" thick x 7'4" long and probably weighs ~ 75lbs. already.

How long is your bench Red?


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## BrandonW

Great progress guys! Red, that's a big piece of timber!


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## BigRedKnothead

OJM- my bench is 8'. Obviously that's the best board from the latest lumber run. Got a pretty good deal on that stuff($1.50bd/ft). Anyway, I'm bummed cause that board is only 7' long, and I want my joinery bench to be at least 8'. Oh well.

Terry- no need to stall. Once you finish that bench, create a need for another one;-)


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## RGtools

Today was a good day to haunt this thread.


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## lysdexic

*I'm putting off the completion of my bench as long as possible…so I can still hang out here and have a build in progress!*

That's kind if how I feel. I love watching you guys build your benches. Mine is done and wish I could play along.

Stef, the grain on your lumber is great.


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## BrandonW

Has anyone thought of building an outdoor bench? Sometimes it's nice working outside when the weather is good, but I usually use my Workmate or the picnic table. An outdoor bench made of massive timber would be awesome, though I'll probably never build one. Just curious if the thought has crossed anyone else's mind.


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## OnlyJustME

Didn't you see my pictures? I'm working on my outdoor bench.


----------



## waho6o9

Not as nice as others, but functional, and making benches is a lot of fun.
There's a 10 footer on the other side with wheels as well.

I enjoy making them.


----------



## Mosquito

Brandon, I was actually thinking about that this weekend looking at the pine benches being built… I kind of want to make one for at my parents' place to just leave out on the back patio in the summer. But then I remind myself I have enough stuff to do before starting a new bench or project lol

I did, however start fixing my leg vise. I cut the groove for the garter plate in the screw tonight. I also enlarged the hole in the garter plate since I didn't cut the groove as deep this time. I'm out of 3/8" dowel to peg it into the hub with, though, so I'll have to wait on that until tomorrow, hopefully. I should be able to do whatever I want on my birthday, despite company, right? lol

I used my miterbox with depth stops in place to make the groove only about 1/8" deep. It worked pretty well, though wasn't comfortable holding on to the threads to keep it from spinning. Next time (if there is one) I'll cut the groove before the threads lol


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## DonBroussard

@Brandon-When I made my bench, I used pressure treated lumber that I had from demolition of a porch after Hurricane Gustav destroyed our house. I was thinking recently that I could drag my PT bench outside and use it as both a workbench and a potting bench, and make myself another nicer one. I made that first bench as practice for technique and usability so I could use my improved, tried and true skills to make a "real" workbench. I didn't install an end vise on my practice bench so I could get some real work holding vises, including a wagon vise (love me some wagon vise!). I will also add a leg vise, improving on the one I have on my current bench-might even install a Shipwright V8.


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## BrandonW

Mos, I was just suggesting it because i enjoyed building my bench so much I kind of miss it.

Don, yeah that bench should stand up to the weather pretty nicely!


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## BigRedKnothead

Brandon- might have to think about an outdoor bench after the joinery one. See, just keep coming up with a need for another one…hehe.

Decided I've got to get a lumber rack built before the joinery bench. It's well underway. Using the uglier 8/4 white oak up for this. Basically it'll be some big oak posts mounted to the shop wall. The posts will have large dados (by way of spacer in the glue up) for oak 2×4's, which are the arms of the rack. Ahhh…you'll see soon enough;-)


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## DanKrager

BRK, I wish I had known you were going to do this…would have made this observation earlier. When I built my lumber rack, I went the extra steps to create dadoes with two tapers, one that works like a dovetail socket, and the other like a tapered French dovetail. When the 2 x ?? "tail" (the arm that holds the lumber) is driven into the dado, it tightens up hard and needs no other fasteners. This also makes the arms adjustable by using a bit of shim where needed and it still holds tightly. My uprights are bolted through the wall to the outside with 1/4" all thread at the top only. There is very little pressure. My entire rack is 18' long using 6×6 posts every 30" with 30" arms every 30". It holds solidly when filled with green lumber as most of the weight is on the floor.
DanK


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## BillWyko

The last teaser before completion. I have to sand, cut the through tenon's and finish the finish & she's done until I can make time to build the cabinet under it. This thing must be in the 400 lb range, took 4 of us to flip it over.


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## HuskerHardwood

Smitty-Cabinetshop - "Rod, I believe the dog holes along the front of my bench are centered about 3 1/2" - 4" from the edge, to center up to an 8" board with full support.

For deciding spacing between, take measure of the total travel range of your endvise and cut it in half. That's the starting point for spacing dog holes, IMHO. Vary to shorter spacing from there based on what looks good to you."

Thanks for the reply. The distance from the front of my bench to the row of holes will be 3 5/8 " if I align them with the bench stop on my end vise, so that makes me feel better! After I added the wooden "chops" to the end vise, I think I only have about 5.5 to 6.0 inches of travel left. I was thinking of spacing my dog holes every 5 inches because I thought the spacing just needed to be something less than the travel. What is the reason for using half of the travel distance or less?

Also, how do most people drill their dog holes (with a jig, or on a drill press)? I could probably do it on the drill press since my tops are only 6 ft by 1 ft (about 60 lbs), but I thought it might be easier to use some type of jig.

I was also wondering if I should chamfer the holes slightly.

Sorry for all of the questions at once! *Any suggestions?*

THANKS!


----------



## chrisstef

All scrubbed up and ready for resawing.


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## JayT

^^^ Dat's purdy, HM!


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## BigRedKnothead

HM- ya, she shore is purdy.

DanK- Now how am I supposed to steal good ideas like that if you don't post them on LJ?;-) 
Our designs do have some similarities. My dados do have a slight angle in order for the lumber to lean towards the wall. The arms will be fastened with some sort of bolt.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Rod- nice bench. I just used a long spade bit. A longer bit helps me "eyeball" it.


----------



## BrandonW

Rod, I used a plunge router with a 3/4" upcut bit in a jig. This guaranteed that they were all the same distance from the side of the bench and that the holes were perfectly vertical.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Could do like Red with the use of a couple of squares to help eyeball it Husker. A slight chamfer on the top of the hole will help keep it purdy.


----------



## Airframer

Random Monday night pic… 1 down 3 more to go…


----------



## lysdexic

Rod, I drilled a 3/4" hole in a cut off at the drill press. I used that as a jig to get hole started. Once that bottomed out, I finished using squares as a guide.


----------



## RGtools

I used a brace and bit and just eyeballed it. I used a knife to do the chamfers…but you appear to be making a bench that is prettier than my own.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Rod, I drilled with forstner and eyeballed it here. I chamfered with a router (I know, that ain't right… )

Why half the travel distance? So you don't have a ton of vise spinning to het a piece clamped. But with your situation, 2 1/2" spacing wouldn't be right either. At that distance, I'd still go a little less than 5".


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I chamfered with a router (I know, that ain't right… )
Ya, if there's ever a job where a router works great, and only takes a couple minutes….that the one.

Concerning the spacing Rod, is your end vise quick release? That makes a difference.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Stef, that's some sweet looking stock…. Humidor, nice work indeed.

Rod, nice bench in work! And heed Lysdexic, as his processes are a sure thing.


----------



## widdle

Red..Your a machine..That white oak must grow like weeds out der..
Hm..Beautifull work..Fine craftsmanship goin on there..Dig the dowels at the base..

Husker..I used a jig..plane stops and such work everywhere, very pleased..If i did it again i would add another 2x to the top of the ply , helps to stay straight.I used like a tinty 1/16" round over bit for the holes, and if i did it again, i would just slightly ease the edge with a little sandpaper…More flat, less holes..
3/4 brad point from lee valley, stays paralel and very beefy and sharp..Highly recomended..


----------



## BillWyko

I used one of these to drill the round dog holes.

Thanks guys, the dowels at the base kind of add a touch of Green & Green to it. I did it at the top too but they're hidden by the skirt.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Man, some rather involved ways to get those dog holes compared to mine. I'm such a rebel.

Speaking of dog holes, I noticed mine have gotten pretty snug of late. Not sure if it's because my top is still shrinking, or if the wood has swelled with the definite increase in humidity. I dunno. Might have to reem em out though.

Widdle- originally I was going to make the lumber rack out of SYP. But it was about the same price I can get white oak. Plus, taking some of the common grade stuff off my lumber guys hands helps him out. He always grumbles about how people don't realize what a small percentage of hardwood lumber is FAS/select.


----------



## Mosquito

Got some Gramercy holdfasts for my birthday yesterday. Trying them out, they didn't hold for crap until I sanded one of them. Then it held a few times, but not every time. Anyone else have that issue? Or am I just not hitting it hard enough, maybe? I was also just testing it out in my 3/4" dog holes. Haven't drilled any holdfast holes yet


----------



## mochoa

Wow, so much to comment on.

Red, the shop looks awesome in white! Wow what a difference some paint can make.

Humidor, what can I say, that bench is amazing!

Husker, love the bench man, looks almost ready to do some serious work.

I used a brace and bit for my holdfast holes but used a space pit in a corded drill for the dog holes. They are not all perfectly vertical but that doesn't affect their function at all.


----------



## mochoa

Mos, wipe them down with mineral spirits to. The grease they come coated with doesn't help. Cleaning the grease seemed to be more important than scuffing the posts with mine.


----------



## BrandonW

Mos, what is the thickness of your bench?


----------



## RPhillips

I'm thinking of giving the Paul Sellers version of a split top a go. I need a nice work bench and it needs to be budget minded too, so a 2×4 based bench hopefully will give me exactly what I need. I will have to try to make it mobile to better suit my needs since I don't have a real "dedicated" workspace.

I've never made anything without either butted or mitered joints (think finish/trim carpentry) other than my most recent project which uses Kreg joints (I know it's still not a proper fine woodworkers joint, but it's a start) so I really look forward to making the way Paul did with mortise and tendon joints and utilizing hand tools for the bulk of the build.

Looks like a trip Harbor Freight will be in order before I start to get some clamps. I don't like buying cheap tools, but I think these clamps will do fine unless they prove otherwise, which then I will replace as needed.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

RP, sounds like you have a plan and a challenge, good on you and good luck!

I'd only have this suggestion, re: cheap clamps in a bench build. I'd suggest five decent Pony (pipe) Clamps as part of your starting arsenal, supplemented with HF pieces. Cheap clamps (that don't put down the pressure you need with larger stock) will frustrate you to no get out.

Oh, and blog on your build. We love watching this kind of stuff.


----------



## mochoa

You can get those clamps cheap on ebay to.

However, I bought 4 from harborfreight and now only have two. The iron castings broke on me when applying a lot of clamping pressure.

I think PS recently blogged on some nicer ones Lee Valley is selling. I dont know how much they cost but considering my experience with the HF clamps they would be a good deal at 2x the price of HF.


----------



## Mosquito

Mauricio, thanks for the tip, I'll give that a try when I get home.

Brandon, my benchtop is about 3.5" thick


----------



## mochoa

Here is the link. 
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=70618&cat=1,43838


----------



## JayT

I'd actually go one step further on clamps and recommend at least two parallel clamps of some kind (Bessey, Jet, or Jorgensen). You will find that they are invaluable for keeping things square and aligned during glue ups of both your bench and projects. In addition, the deep flat jaws spread pressure evenly across a larger surface area. Using the aluminum bar clamps, you end up having to use a lot more because they can't clamp all the way across a 3in deep top, while the parallel clamps can.

You can pick up the Jorgensen Cabinet Master clamps at Menards for not much more than a good pipe clamp.


----------



## Mosquito

And if you keep an eye out you can find some great sales on the Cabinet Masters at Menards. I loaded up when they were on sale for $10 off, plus another 11% rebate. I love my cabinet master clamps. +1 to that.


----------



## jap

Mosquito- check out this video on making holdfast stick, maybe it could help you. http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/?p=1329


----------



## Mosquito

oh that's right, I had forgotten about that. If the mineral spirits and sandpaper don't do the trick, I may have to give that a try. I've got a center punch, so it's a feasible option. Thanks for the reminder Joel


----------



## RPhillips

I do have a few descent clamps, four 16" steel bar clamps, four 12" Irwin Quick clamps, two 16" Irwin Quick Grips, two 16" Bessy DuoKlamp, two 24" Bessy Parallel clamps, and four 6" Bessy bar clamps. ( I realize that the Quick clamps are not that great, but they served me fine for general carpentry needs)

I really like the Bessy Parallel clamps, but at about $35-40 each, they're just not in my budget.


----------



## BrandonW

Solid tip on that holdfast. My Gramercy are holding pretty well, but if they start to slip, I'll definitely try that. Thanks for the link, Joel.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Holy cow, RP. 'A few decent clamps' of yours are better than 90% of my arsenal. I'd say you're set!


----------



## RPhillips

Mosquito, I'll have to keep an eye out for those on sale at Menards.

Mauricio, those Leevalley clamps look pretty nice. thanks for the link.


----------



## terryR

Jap, thanks for the link on holdfast mods! I'm drilling holes soon, with forstner bit and wooden jig, and have 2 gramercys so far…

Of course what we all need is a pair of forged holdfasts from Dave!


----------



## Mosquito

True that Terry!


----------



## Mosquito

cleaning it off with mineral spirits and then using 40 grit sand paper took care of it 


















I had used 40 grit paper on one of them already, and it worked better, but wiping with mineral spirits did the trick


----------



## HuskerHardwood

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who replied to my questions about the dog holes! It is really helpful to hear and especially see so many viewpoints and solutions. Based on all that I read, I think I am going to try something like Widdle showed in his post, and incorporate his suggestion for making it thicker to help me stay perpendicular. I picked up a 3/4 brad point bit at Woodcraft for 75% off last month in anticipation for this, and it is at least 5 inches long, so I am hoping that will work well for me. I just need to figure out my spacing for sure, so hopefully this weekend I can be drilling some holes.

I will update when I get it done….unless of course I screw it all up!

Thanks again everyone!


----------



## chrisstef

Rod - chiefs fan by chance? (Might be another sucker besides you and i Shane)

Ill be lookin forward to seeing the last leg of progress on the bench.


----------



## CL810

For Jorgenson clamps also watch for Menard's made in America sale.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Can't recommend the Jet k-clamps. I've had a lot of trouble with them slipping.


----------



## JayT

A little more progress tonight before the t-storm warning kicked in and I got kicked out of the garage in favor of the wife's car.










Making some chips with the Sargent 418 fore plane, or as my wife calls it-making hamster bedding. Rough flattening the bottom surface of the bench top. I know it just needs to be flat and even where it meets the base, but it is good practice for how I will do the important side. (Plus it's just plain fun!)


----------



## OnlyJustME

You sure it's not *plane* fun ?


----------



## JayT

Ouch!

Nah, I'm selling on CL


----------



## woodcox

Template teaser, this took a long time to decide on a profile.









My HD flitch has been sitting for a couple months now. Time to get busy because they are impeding traffic and WhiskeyChris beat me to them with his horses. My feet are going to be 24" long and 5" high.
WWJD? Shape the profile or chop the mortises in my feet first? 
Oh, that sounded bad.


----------



## chrisstef

Id rough shape the feet but leave the bottom flat, chop the mortises, then fall back and make that little detail on the bottom of the feet. Id hate to try and balance that thing on the bench with a series of shims while wailing away with a sharp chisel. Just me pennies though.


----------



## carguy460

Stef, not everyone in the KC area is a Chief's fan…I'm about an hour and a half north of KC, and I'm a Denver man myself. Not much of a Royals fan either, Atlanta is my team - and imagine who is playing in KC next Tuesday…could it be the Braves?? I'll be at the Tuesday game with my 10 year old daughter, if anyone was wondering!

Um, back to bench talk, sorry for the distraction. I'm learning quite a bit watching you guys building your benches…mine is drawing near, maybe start this summer while my daughter is here so she can learn to saw!


----------



## BrandonW

Jason, good to see another Braves fan here! It took me awhile after moving to Atlanta, but the last couple of years I've become a huge fan of them. They have a lot talent on the team and if they're running on all cylinders can go deep in the postseason. And not that anyone here cares, but my AL team is the Angels.


----------



## carguy460

I have never been to ATL, but I got on the Braves when I was a kid, mostly because of Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz…I miss those guys.


----------



## BrandonW

And those were the days when the games were on TBS so people could watch them from all over the country.


----------



## chrisstef

Jason - Well they should be lol. -1 man points for bein a donkeys fan in the sea of red. Jus sayin.  Being from CT and a Chiefs fan, im always lookin for someone to talk football with. I haven't bumped into another Chiefs fan up here yet. Im lonely. Enjoy that ball game, its been too long since ive been to the ball park.


----------



## carguy460

Brandon - those were the good old days! I could watch every single Braves game living back in New Mexico thanks to TBS. Now the only games I can catch are usually the Yankees, which sucks. I miss the old TBS…

Stef, I knew I would get something out of you when I mentioned Denver. You know, its really not easy living here in this "sea of red" and wearing an old Elway jersey…I think that the 7 looks like a target to folks around here! Really pumped to check out the Braves, this will be my first time seeing them.

I may have a line on some old timbers for my bench build. No clue what they are but they are large, there is lots of them, and they have been sitting in a shed for years. I drive by them every day on the way to work, just waiting for the chance to knock on the door and make a deal. Anyone have any idea on how to make a reasonable offer on wood that isn't exactly "for sale"? I'd like to pay a fair price, but I also want to save quite a bit over going to the lumberyard…


----------



## chrisstef

I like to use my plight as the basis of making a sale on something like that. "Im sorry to bother you but I drive by your house everyday and see that old pile of timbers just sitting there. Ive taken up woodworking as a hobby and I really enjoy using the old tools and the handwork. Ive been wanting to build a bench for a long time and for what its worth those timbers would be great for it. Id like to pay you for them and make you a fair offer if you're interested. They're gonna need some work to get them into shape but im thinking there's some good looking stuff under all that dirt. Would ya be interested in selling just a few of them?"


----------



## carguy460

Wow…seems like Stef has done this before! I'm going to definitely keep that monologue in my back pocket for future use!


----------



## chrisstef

Once or twice  Make sure youre not wearing your button down and dockers either. I like to show up in jeans, boots, and a paint splattered shirt when I go to tag sales, flea markets, or craigslist meet ups. Show up in an Audi and theyre not gonna bend on pricing either.

Some people are attached to their items and have a tough time letting it go if they think youre gonna hoodwink them or flip it for a profit. Ive even been known to send a picture of my finished product, whether it be a rehab or whatever, to the original owner. A lot of times it'll bring them some joy to know that their item was treated right.

I hope you come up with those timbers Jason!


----------



## terryR

Yeah, def don't take the Audi SUV to buy old timbers! 

Take a dirty pickup, and wear jeans with work on them. And talk slowly…

Stef, come sweet talk my wife outta the 8/4 walnut in the loft of HER barn. She won't let me touch it, and some of the timbers are 20" wide! And I'm talking about an area that's probably 50×100 feet…all 8/4 and older than me. bummer.


----------



## chrisstef

What Terry!? 20" wide 8/4 walnut? And she wont let ya touch it?

Man I dunno if I can sweet talk my way into that one. Id have to call in my old man on that one, he can sell ice to an eskimo I swear.

Whats she holdin out for? A full walnut timber framed addition?


----------



## terryR

"...the loft is supporting the rest of the barn…"

But the whole mess is sitting on actively rotting legs! I love the old barn across the road from our house…very cool to look at…but it's falling down. We need to prop it up in the next couple of years,

but I want some of that loft!


----------



## chrisstef

Man id love to make a road trip to help prop up that old barn for a small cut of the walnut. Kicker here, a kicker there, couple of new supports …. wham, walnut city baby. Lol, im sure if it was that easy you woulda done it all ready.


----------



## carguy460

Great advice guys! Don't worry, I drive a dirty pickup (the wife drives the fancy one!) and my work clothes are usually stained, faded jeans and a t-shirt. I've got a pretty good beard going too, so with a flannel shirt and suspenders I would definitely look the part of "lumberjack"...maybe I should give that a try…


----------



## chrisstef

Bring the baby with ya Jason. I mean who doesn't turn into a puddle of mush around a new baby. "you can have whatever ya want"


----------



## widdle

Terry,,Im confused on the walnut is it part of the structure or just laying up in the rafters ?

Stef..why the cheifs..

Go ducks


----------



## chrisstef

Why the Chiefs … Christian Okoye brother, the Nigerian Nightmare.










Get off the tracks when the train is comin through!


----------



## BrandonW

I would drive to Alabama for walnut.


----------



## widdle

Stef..He was good..Seemed like a short career..

Brandon..Soo would I..


----------



## chrisstef

CT to Alabama … roooad trip!!!

Widdle - he did have a rather short career but when he and Barry Word in the backfield they were a force to be reckoned with. I was young at the time and between those 2 guys, derrick thomas, and neil smith I fell in love with the chiefs. Havent seen a playoff win since … I wonder if im the bad luck charm?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Hi, my name is Red, and I am a Cubs fan.

Okoye met a fellow named Steve Atwater, and that was the end of that.

Forgot to snap ya'll a pic on my last lumber run. My fav lumber guy has literal barns full of mostly oak and walnut. Not to mention his hand plane collection.

Anyway, went camping last night. I like going to areas where you can see what it was like before they started clearing all the hardwoods for farming.


----------



## shampeon

Red, you poor, poor man. That meadow is lovely.

Va Gigantes.


----------



## widdle

Stef..Remember watching the cheifs in the mud, good football
Check uot my boy…Watched him play a couple games up the road at Crenshaw high, Good humble kid.Put a glass of water on his head..wouldn't spill a drop.Will hit you on D as well..
Breakin ankles at 4 min.. 




Red..Wow..Nice spot


----------



## BrandonW

I'm sorry too, Red. Cubs fans are masochists!


----------



## terryR

Widdle, it's the floor of the loft.
If it were just lying around…


----------



## waho6o9

Replace the floor one piece at a time maybe?


----------



## DanKrager

+1 waho609! "Honey, if we don't replace the floor these boards are gonna rot just like that down there. That stuff IS CONTAGIOUS." 
Love it!
DanK


----------



## waho6o9

LOL

Good one DanK


----------



## OnlyJustME

Stef pick me up on the way to Terry's. i'm sure the both of us can figure out how to keep that barn from falling over.
Best thing to do is remove a lot of weight first. 

Nice view Red.


----------



## terryR

Heck, if it were up to me…we'd have a big ol' LJ party to disassemble our old barn. Lots of 4/4 QS white oak just keeping the goats from getting into the chicken coop. We could build a new one out of that fancy recycled material that looks like wood, paint it barn red, and split up a few trailer loads of nice lumber!

Then again, where I live, there are a dozen old barns using some reclaimable wood within shouting distance of our place. Probably not any many chunkers as Stef gets to…but you never know…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

You guys know my camera skills usually aren't that great. I did pretty well on that trip though.

Brandon- it's tough, but I still watch and root for the cubbies via mlb.tv. Kinda long story as to how I came like them. We can't have everything common ya know.

Terry- I've been in a few barns like that around here. Back in the day, people just used whatever lumber was close by. They didn't care that one day we wouldn't even be able to drive a nail in that beam;-)


----------



## chrisstef

Red - whoa. Peace right there.

Widdle - phone let me open that link but im interested. Ill peep it on the desktop at work tomorrow. Im trying to like my uconn football team but its like watching Tony eat soup. Dribbling off his chin, shirt all wet and overall a sloppy mess. Paul pasquoloni aint sellin tickets and its mind numbingly boring. Who runs I formation in college anymore?

Ojm - put your boots on brother its gonna get thick lol.


----------



## woodcox

Made a little progress today. One reason, other than aesthetics, for the profile is to keep more mass in the feet.









As I was doing some layout, listening to the fir check, a question came up. Depending on your neck of the woods, is there an optimal time of year/ ambient humidity level to build a bench with the joinery you guy's use? These timbers move alot. Has anyone noticed any seasonal changes with your lines even with the stability of your hardwoods?


----------



## Boatman53

If you are in fact hearing the wood check then I'm guessing the moisture content is still really high. Too high for building. I built my bench during the winter with the least humidity. But that was when I had the time, it had nothing to do with the wood or humidity. Do you have a way of checking the mousture content of the wood you're using?
Jim


----------



## bondogaposis

Construction grade lumber is only dried to 20% MC. In a dry climate like Salt Lake it is going to dry further pretty fast. The good news is that once dry and the resins set, fir lumber is more stable than hardwoods.


----------



## RGtools

*Woodcox*. Use solid joinery and draw-bore the joints. The bench is going to move, but the joints should not work loose. It does sound like your wood could be much dryer than it is now before getting to work, but it would not be the first successful bench to be made with green wood either.

You can always use some sort of finish on the end grain to inhibit moisture uptake so the wood dries more evenly. This helps stop the checking. Paint works well…you can scrape it off later.

I have a softwood bench, and it moves around a bit, but not in any way that annoys me. Plan for wood movement, but don't obsess too much. Tom Fidgen might have said it best: "Wood moves, get over it"

Good luck man.


----------



## BrandonW

Woodcox, that's looking pretty unique! Looking forward to seeing them on the bench.


----------



## woodcox

I'm not obsessing. Sorry it was just a general question refering to massive traditional hardwood beasts. Always amazed how monolithic some of your benches look. Very impressive to see such tight joinery spanned over these ditances with big wood. Mayb its the scale that makes me purr. I've always appreciated large timber things.

I'm aware of what i have. I chose it cuz of cost, availability, and the need for adjustable mobility. I fully intend to abuse these animals. I was concerned for a minute when I bought my pile about the checking but have come to embrace it. I did as instructed and let them habituate, two months should suffice for this half arsed commitment


----------



## lysdexic

+1 to Brandon

I to am looking forward to the aesthetic of your bench.


----------



## Airframer

Random Friday Afternoon Pic…. Through Mortise No. 2 in work.










Doing this 5 mins at a time is taking a bit longer than I had hoped lol…


----------



## Mosquito

5 minutes per mortise? Doing it that way, I don't think that's too bad… mine too considerably more than that lol


----------



## Airframer

Yeah roughly 5 mins heh.. I can sneak away from Mom and baby for about that long before I have to come back inside and help with one crisis or another lol. Should have this all done and assembled before he graduates college


----------



## HuskerHardwood

Stef - I do enjoy watching the Chiefs on TV…not a big enough fan to spend the money to go watch them at Arrowhead though. Gotta save that money for more tools! I am hoping for a better season with the new coaches this year…but after last year, I guess that's not saying much.

Red - that meadow makes me dream of retirement!


----------



## chrisstef

Think marathon Eric. I figure im at mile 5 of the 26.2 in workbench progress. I may not be good buf at least im slow!


----------



## BillWyko

I am finding it very hard to resist putting the bench into service before finishing the little details I still need to do. I know if I do, I may never finish the small stuff. Must resist 8-}


----------



## chrisstef

Classic case of the 90%ers HM. Story of my life. See: bedroom missing ceiling trim, closet doors with no closing latches, 12 of 14 doors painted lol. Tryin to work on that percentage ratio myself, good luck bro.


----------



## mvilares

Many great designs, loving this thread.


----------



## lysdexic

90%ers - LOL

I have got to be the worst. Why do we do it? I don't do 90 % of the job at work so why do it at home. I ponder the psychology of this often. It is so common that you'd think something has been written about it.

I think it's fear. Fear to face the short comings of the final result.


----------



## widdle

Not being perfect…But being a perfectionist will shut it down..Dig in boys…Nothing that cant be fixed…


----------



## terryR

Yeah, I'm a 90%'r. Scott hit the nail on the head…I'm always afraid I'll mess up the project during the final stage.

Bench is really complete…just needs dog holes. Pump house built in Jan/Feb delivers water to our house fine…still needs a roof instead of the tarp. New back door installed in Apr…still needs trim on the inside so the cats will stop pulling out the pink stuff. Jeez…it never ends…

...oh, except for a box of Oreos…I have no prob finishing that one!


----------



## RPhillips

Trying to decide between building a wood workers bench by following Paul Sellers tutorial or building Paulk's Ultimate Work Bench which I can store easily when the wife wants to park in the garage. Main thing is that I'm working in a fairly limited two car garage. Most of the wall space is occupied with storage shelves and wall mounted hanging storage and the rest is consumed with the kids stuff.

Ultimately I want both, but the Paulk workbench makes more sense to me at this time and looks to me that it can give me what I need to do most jobs, but in the end I really want a solid wood workers work bench to work on and then something like the Paulk for assembling my projects.

Whats your thoughts? If you have any other ideas, let me hear'em.


----------



## RPhillips

Oh, one other thing, if you are going to build a work bench with Fir, where can I find 2 by's that aren't rounded on the corners? I this even possible anymore? Lowes and HD are out, not sure about Menards tho. I believe there is also an 88 Lumber somewhat near by too. I'm in the Indy (Brownsburg/Avon Area).


----------



## DanKrager

TR, you build Oreo boxes? Wow. Never thought of that! LOL.

I'm gonna take a stab at the 90% thing that plagues most of us, myself included. Fear of messing up may be part of it, but for me, how to fix where I screwed up (perfectionist) causes delay. I've also learned that the key to flexibility is indecision, so that is what separates home work from employment work. "Being your own boss" has its drawbacks, and lack of planning to completion is one of them. You get away with it because there is little or no accountability. My wife lived and worked in a fully functional but incomplete kitchen for about 20 years before I figured out (and was motivated) how to deal with a problem area. The problem wasn't that bad and I had no trouble doing it once started, but oh look at the shiny object I got distracted. It worked so it was OK to put other things as a higher priority. Not using a workbench before it is finished because it works!!! That's not a bad thing in itself, but it still affects us (or the mate or customer or etc.). That's my free offering and worth as much!
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Probably get some "ya whatevers" but I'm the opposite of a 90%er. It drives me nuts if I don't complete a project before I start another. Rarely do it. Drives me nuts. 
It has it's downsides. I can be very consumed by a project. I sometimes push through to finality when I should pull back an think….and regret the result. Anyway.

RPhillps- I would really encourage you to buy bigger stock and rip em down(2×8s or 2×10s). That will give you square edges, and you will get much better lumber. The really use the crap on 2×4s.


----------



## lysdexic

ya whatever….......

:^)


----------



## chrisstef

^ yea. What scott said. Whatever. No 100%ers allowed.


----------



## DonBroussard

I guess I'm an underachiever. I'm usually good to about 80%. Whatever . . .


----------



## shampeon

+1 to Red's advice on getting wider 2x stock and ripping it. They have to take the boards from bigger trees, or at the trunks, to get 2×12s. Which means you get cleaner boards and have a lot more likelihood of getting quartersawn boards, which means better dimensional stability. If the board goes through the pith, rip it in half first, then you've got two quartersawn, or pretty close to it, boards.


----------



## Airframer

Well, yesterday I finished up the second through mortise for the front 2 legs. Got all excited and cut the first legs tenon and got it fit perfectly except that the tenon was too short. I had measured the legs wrong and instead of measuring for the tops thickness I just measured the leg length and that through everything off. So I went to cut the tenon correctly and f'd up the new tenon so now I need yet another leg for this bench. I think I have spent more money on the stupid [email protected]#$ING legs for this thing than I have for the top and vise hardware >|[

Gotta go have lunch with the family then it's off to go get more wood for a new leg and try this again.

Oh yeah… and I am most certainly a 75%er lol..


----------



## CL810

Yeah, whatev


----------



## chrisstef

Baby brain drain Eric. At least thats my excuse.


----------



## RPhillips

@ BigRedKnothead - Didn't even think about that. lol thought about ripping all the 2×4's down a tad, but not using larger stock…good thought cause, yeah trying to find decent 2×4s can be a challenge.


----------



## waho6o9

Hello story stick, good bye tape measure.

Seriously, story sticks rule the roost.


----------



## widdle

^^^ totoally agree..Take the tape measure out of the equation…
Hey,,,Snap out the hole bench on a sheet of ply or rosin paper…plan view and one elevation…easy peasy..


----------



## DanKrager

LOL! 
Whatever… (I have a clock that says that, numbers all scrambled at the bottom). Carry on..as far as it goes.
DanK


----------



## HuskerHardwood

Update on my dog holes…

I built a jig similar to the one Widdle showed us to help me keep my bit perpendicular and to make sure my spacing was correct. I think it is going to work great, but I am going to have to buy a new bit before continuing. I picked up a 3/4 inch German brad point bit from Woodcraft a couple of months ago on sale for 75% off, but it was already burning when I drilled the first hole in the jig.

I drilled one and a half holes with it on the bench, but it just smokes and burns! Doesn't seem to matter much how slow or fast I go. I tried to clean it up and "sharpen" it, but I obviously don't know anything about sharpening a drill bit, because it didn't really help at all. I have a new bit on order from Amazon, that hopefully will be better.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Chuckling about the "ya whatevers." Every so often I get the "your making the rest of us husbands look bad." I'm just doing my thing. It's my own little form of OCD. I wish I could be more laid back and say, "ehh I'll get it done when I get it done." But I'm just not wired that way. 
Probably not gonna get any sympathy that it really bugs me starting an A&C mirror when my lumber rack is about 70% done;-)

Anyhoo. I'm learning that with thinner stock, sometimes it's more effective and safer to face joint boards with a hand plane. A big flat bench doesn't hurt either. When facing jointing on a power planer, I just end up pushing the board flat, if that makes sense. 








And here's what I got done while the fam was at the pool (I didn't need any more freckles). Getting pretty efficent at M&T joinery. Tomorrow, schmooove and glue. 

















So get those benches done and start building stuff. Lots of stuff;-)


----------



## widdle

Looks good husker , Hopefully someone has a suggestion on sharpeningthat bit..What does the tip look like..

Red..That frame looks great..


----------



## chrisstef

Of course Widdle wants to know what the tip looks like. You say that to all the new guys dont ya bud?


----------



## widdle

Yep..Just creepin…I drive an ice cream truck..


----------



## lysdexic

Dang Widdle. Remind me not look at any of your mortise and tenon joinery.


----------



## Airframer

*Stef* - Baby Brain Drain.. I like that.. That is what happened.. I swear!

Well, went to HD and blew my Fathers Day gift card on some new lumber for the leg I screwed up and a couple other things. 5th times the charm right?


----------



## HuskerHardwood

Widdle - I did a little more investigating myself just a few minutes ago. I chucked the bit back up into the drill press and watched the end. It is wobbling noticably at the tip…so I am pretty sure that is why I am getting the burning. The tip is constantly rubbing in the hole, so I don't think it is a sharpening issue after all. Hopefully the new bit from Amazon will be straight!

Red - it is impressive to see how much woodworking you get done, and how good it all looks!


----------



## waho6o9

Red does impressive work, no doubt.


----------



## jusfine

Big Red, some great looking M&T joinery!


----------



## terryR

nice work, Red, and thanks for the inspiration to get back to work!

Hey Rod, you have a dremel? I have ruined several Irwin Spade bits this summer trying to bore through hardy board (cement). Even blued the tip like yours sounds. If the tip is blue or black it should hammer back straight fairly easy. I used my dremel to re-shape the cutting edges, just copying an unused bit. Heated the tip till orange, than a quench in water, drill bit back in action!

Of course, I'm drilling unsightly holes in MDF just so my sawzall can fit…not dog holes on a finished bench…

However today is day 5 after a double tooth extraction, and I'm feeling great! Time for some dog holes in me pine beater!!!

Eric, I thought you knew the FIRST rule of bench building…start by making 5 legs.


----------



## Airframer

Terry.. I have built 8 legs so far lol


----------



## HuskerHardwood

Terry - unfortunately the bit that I bought is a brad point. I definitely do NOT possess the skills necessary to straighten it! Luckily, I am not in a big hurry, so I will just wait for the new bit to arrive next week. I do love Amazon Prime!


----------



## donwilwol

Terry.. I have built 8 legs so far lol

Are you makin A spider?


----------



## terryR

EIGHT LEGS? Goodness gracious. I only needed 5. 

*Bench update.*..ummm…it's complete ya'll.

I used this pine jig to drill the dog holes with a Forstner bit and extension…after mod'ing the set screws a bit at the grinder so they wouldn't stick out while spinning. Luckily for me, the drill bit extension is almost 3/4" exactly!










And here the completed pine beater of a bench…










I started off with the premise that I needed a bench asap, so went with Paul Seller's fairly straightforward bench. Somehow, the top grew thicker, the legs swelled, and a leg vise was added to the plan! But I certainly learned a ton and now have a real bench to help me learn more quickly.

I've already started with the finish…Danish Oil. I smeared on as much as I could stand in the 90 degree heat, and will continue this week. (Note where I stopped with the oil on the rear leg down near the floor) And here the bench is posing with a few Veritas goodies I've collected the past few months, plus a pair of Gramercy hold fasts. Still cannot wait to see Dave's version of the hold fasts!!!

Also, note the ugly red and black tool bag that sits neatly in the tool well. It's the perfect size, and I've grown accustomed to having this many tools within an arm's reach. So, I use it. I don't like it, but until I build another from wood and leather it stays.

Blog coming…


----------



## DanKrager

That's a fine lookin' beater, TerryR. Are you left handed or is the plane just sharpened funny?
DanK


----------



## Airframer

Yeah, the first 4 had to be replaced due to copious amounts of sap coming out of every pore so that led to the next 4 which has turned into 5 so it is actually 9 legs so far lol.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, DanK! I'm a righty, but was trying to find which direction the jointer would stop ripping into that rosewood. I finally gave up since it was just poser photo…I don't need that hunk of rosey flat yet.


----------



## chrisstef

Terry … Terry … Ehhh hemmm … Bondo pose?

Congratulations buddy. You did it and it kicks a$$. Its gonna look great oiled and will seeve you very well.


----------



## widdle

Very Good terry….Looks like you got quite a few projects goin already…soo many clamping and hold down options…You must be stoked..


----------



## mochoa

Terry congrats on the bench! Man that is a pine beast!

It looks great and I really like the vise handle.


----------



## RGtools

Looks like everything a bench needs to be Terry. I have no doubts you will lovingly beat the snot out of it.


----------



## Tugboater78

lookin good Terry! do need a Bondo pose, since he raised the bar a few months back!


----------



## terryR

Thanks, guys. Bondo pose, huh? There's still time!


----------



## donwilwol

A bench to be proud of Terry. You're going to enjoy it. How do you find rosewood like that?


----------



## terryR

Don, there USED to be a hardwood store 30 minutes from my house in the middle of freekin nowhere. The owner sold everything from Amazon rosewood to Zebrawood, 8/4 thick, as long as you could afford! She even had tons of maple, ash, hickory, cherry…but retired from business last year. 

Now, I'm searching the www to find a dealer like her…wow…I had it made for a while and took it for granted! If I had a bit of spare change, I'm certain she made a nice profit, and I'd love to re open that store. As a matter of fact, I noticed the other day on my way to town, someone HAS re opened the store…and didn't remove the Hardwood Lumber sign. Im headed that way this morning…gotta look inside and see what's up…


----------



## JayT

Terry, the bench looks great. Hope mine turns out half as good as your "beater"


----------



## RPhillips

Terry, nice looking bench!

I'm wanting so badly to make that Benched Craft Split Roubo, but geez, I'd have sell a kidney to afford that build. So I'm going to base my design off of that and go with more affordable materials. Hopefully I'll be able to afford Ash or Maple. I was hoping to find so reclaimed lumber for the build, or atleast the legs and cross members, but what I've found do far is rediculously over prices.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, JayT, but I'm certain yours will look better than mine…

RPhillips, don't rule out pine as you mentioned earlier. It's cheap and easy to obtain. Just get the 2×10's, let them dry in your shop for a month, then cut them to size. Wow, I'd love an Ash bench! Or walnut and ash. $$$


----------



## RPhillips

Yeah me too!

Ash seems to be the cheapest locally from what I seen. Still too much $$, but I can still dream


----------



## Mosquito

Sweet progress Terry


----------



## RGtools

Need to hit the lumeryard this week. The owner has kept aside some 4X6 elm for me….I'll be doing that two bench plan after all. Colored maple and elm should be a nice subtle wood combo.

*Have any of you had to air dry your bench wood? I am in the process and I just wonder how others tackle the storage issue. *


----------



## AnthonyReed

Congrats on the completion Terry. Your bench looks fantastic. Great work!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

+13 Terry to the sweet bench and the required bondo pic we're all waiting on.

Rphillips- Not sure if it's available in your area, but don't rule out southern yellow pine. Much harder than other pines. Schwarz makes a pretty case for it in his workbench book.
btw, your icon looks a little like our infamous roubo girl:


----------



## Brit

Fantastic bench Terry! Can't wait to see what you start producing with that beast of a bench and your skills.


----------



## JayT

Update

Cut the top to length










Chopped the leg mortises and routed a very shallow groove that helps everything set level










Top is attached with lag bolts through the upper stretchers.










And here we are










Should be able to pick up lumber for the vise faces tomorrow, so can finalize placement of those and then flatten the top. Slowly getting there.


----------



## Mosquito

Lookin' good Jay. What's the dimensions on that bench?


----------



## JayT

Thanks, Mos. Final dimensions should be just under 6ft long, 24in deep and 35-1/2in tall. That makes it just a bit shorter than my tablesaw , so could use as an outfeed table if necessary.


----------



## donwilwol

That should work JayT!!


----------



## BrandonW

Very nice, Jay! I really like how the boards in the middle are all the same color. What a beefy bench you have there.


----------



## chrisstef

Slowy gettin there JayT?! Seems like youre kickin a$$ to me bro. Lookin real good!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Way to go JayT!


----------



## mochoa

The bench is looking sweet Jay!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice product, JayT. That should do just fine, Sir, well done.


----------



## lysdexic

Handsome bench JayT. That is how I finally settled on a height for my bench…. Just low enough to function as an out feed table.


----------



## waho6o9

Stout bench there JayT, congrats on a fine build.

Oh yeah.


----------



## widdle

Lookin good jayt

For you guys wrapin up your beches, or neeed to re flatten, check //http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/tls/3843970819.html


----------



## widdle

whowhatwhenwherewhy is roubo girl…


----------



## chrisstef

Widdle likey Roubochic.


----------



## terryR

Nice one, JayT. I want one just like it!


----------



## BrandonW

Widdle, I'll be in Socal next month, maybe I'll pick one of those up. Think they'd add a baggage fee at the airport?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Widdle- don't look her in the eyes for too long. Bad things happen.

RP- Another thing about bench lumber- remember to check woodfinder.com and/or criagslist. Try to find a mom and pop sawmill in your area. If you do, you can often get deals on lower than furniture grade lumber….but good for a bench. Here's one in my area I need to check out. http://omaha.craigslist.org/mat/3893846484.html


----------



## DonBroussard

Just catchin' up after a few days' absence.

@JayT- Sharp looking bench you got there. I wish I had squared up all the faces of my boards before I assembled and laminated the top-I've got the rounded edges on the underside of the top, so I'll have to contend with that if I ever add an undermount vise. Have you picked your bench's finish yet?

@Tug-I must have missed the "Bondo pose" in the discussions. Is that required (!) on all finished bench pics, like a shavings shot on the HPOYD thread?


----------



## chrisstef

We're doing our best to mandate the "bondo pose" Don. Its an internet classic. Pulp fiction if you will. Ill have to dig it out and stash the pic on my PC for future reference.


----------



## jmartel

Curious if anyone here has a recommendation for a front vice? I am going to be building a quick bench once I move into my new place next month, and the woodworking specific bench will have to wait. I would like a vice to use in the meantime though. For the WW bench, I may end up with a twin screw Veritas vice.


----------



## BrandonW

Lee Valley sells some decent front vises. I used one of them as a tail vise on my bench.

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,41659,41661&p=31137


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I recommend the simple leg vise. Most versatility for the fewest $.


----------



## jmartel

I don't want a leg vise as I plan on transferring whichever I buy to a dedicated WW bench in the future.


----------



## widdle

I had limited space available for my front vise..I asked the same question you did, and ordered the small from lee valley , needed something for a job and ended up at woodcraft a couple days later and bought a wood river small front vise, figuring i would send one or the other back..
Bolted both of them up temporarily to a 4"x12" for a couple days…Ended up using the woodriver…. it has some slop, but , im happy with it..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

To each his own, good luck.


----------



## BrandonW

Widdle, what'd you like about the Woodriver over the Lee Valley vise? Price? Quality?


----------



## widdle

I think smitty's advice is a good option jmartel, My existing base didn't allow for leg style vise in my case..

brandon..I wasn't quite sure how much room i was gonna have as i was wingin it, is sort of how i ended up with two..
the small woodriver was a little bigger and fit , and there was a little less play in the woodriver in my shop science test,...they were both fine… on a side note..i like through bolts more than lags for istall


----------



## Boatman53

I'm another fan of the leg vise. But have you checked Craigslist? Right now near me there are three older Jorgensons for 35$ each. I'd buy them but I have too many vises looking for a bench at the moment. Good luck. 
Jim


----------



## donwilwol

I've got a leg, front and twin screw vice on my bench. The leg vice gets the most use. The front vice second. I doubt I would buy another twin screw, I'd make a maxon vice instead. (making one is on my list anyhow)


----------



## AnthonyReed

"making one is on my list anyhow" - What? You didn't have 15 minutes to kill?


----------



## donwilwol

What? You didn't have 15 minutes to kill?

I'm missing a screw, but you already knew that!


----------



## chrisstef

Between you and I Don we could fill up a 5 gallon tub of all the screws were missing. Ive also seemed to misplace most of the French fries that came in my happy meal.


----------



## Brit

They'll be in the bottom of the bag Stef, all cold, soggy and tasteless.


----------



## Brit

BTW, what toy did you get?


----------



## AnthonyReed

Those are the weak ones, don't fret Stef. It will make the herd stronger in the long run.


----------



## chrisstef

I dunno Andy, but it was crunchy, rather tasteless, and kinda creepy. They should really look into upgrading those things.


----------



## Brit

That is creepy. In the UK, MacDonalds are now giving childrens books instead of toys with their Happy Meals. Overnight, they suddenly became the biggest children's literature distributor in the country. So although they are adding to children's obescity, it is now OK because they are helping them with their literacy. Go figure!


----------



## DaddyZ

How about some phonics with those fries….


----------



## woodcox

We always found them handy for leverage or ballast when we were kids. Prolly not so much nowadays cuz they're smarter and well-read. :-(


----------



## BrandonW

Also in the UK they eat their chicken nuggets with ketchup. Just adding the little info I know about McDonalds in the UK.


----------



## JayT

OK, I'm just avoiding the whole McD's discussion.

Back on point. Dropped by a sawyer's yesterday to pick up lumber to finish the bench and build the Moxon. Here's what I came home with:










8ft length of 8/4×8in Ash
4ft length of 4/4×9in Ash 
and the end of a log.










This needs to dry some more, but is going to be fun once it's ready.


----------



## AnthonyReed

That is one fine Shop Log JayT, congratulations on the acquisition.


----------



## bondogaposis

What's the log for?


----------



## JayT

What's the log for?

New mallet(s) or any other jig/small tool build that needs made of indestructible lumber. The sawyer where I got the ash also mills Osage Orange, so I asked if he had a scrap piece I could use to make a mallet head. He said "Sure" and then proceeded to chainsaw the end off a log he had in the yard. Didn't ask him to go that far, just thought he might have some off-cuts laying around in a scrap pile. Oh well, the price was right-free!


----------



## bondogaposis

Bois d'arc aught to make a fine mallet. Wish I could find it around here.


----------



## terryR

Nice score, JayT. I thought I recognized that log…sweet stuff. You may as well split it in 1/2 to save it the trouble, and let it dry quicker. Heck, that's a $100 log!

Around here, you have to watch the locals or they will burn the osage for firewood…never neard of bowstaves.com, or anything similar.


----------



## ksSlim

Bondo, down South we use Hedge, Osage Orange or Bois d'Arc for fence posts.

Local fellow makes "Rustic" Furniture from some.

Check your local farm n ranch supply for wood fence posts. They're shipped out of Kansas by the semi load.
Line posts, 4-8 inch dia, corner and gate posts, 10 in and up.

VERY prone to splits and deep checks. Turned a lamp once, 20 yrs later it split in half during the night.
When dry, hard as ole Billy whatfor. Peel the edge off most tools.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Don't want the thread to self-destruct after a 24 void….so here's some bench motivational pics. Had a few paid days at work I had to burn, so I'm gonna try and get this lumber rack done. I'm going to town smoothing all the parts in these pics (really just removing the machining marks). You can see I use the crotchet in some unconventional ways, but I like it. 
My shop still feels weird not having another bench against that back wall, but it's coming. I really like having a dedicated sharpening area.


----------



## DaddyZ

Red^ I like the clamp rack on the side of the table


----------



## Brit

Not sure if Rob Cosman's new bench that he built for a friend has been discussed/reviewed on this thread, but he explains it's construction very well in the following video.


----------



## woodcox

Toe sandals,now I want some.. Wow. Nice bench though, well thought out. I like the springer dogs.


----------



## terryR

Red, very nice sharpening station…gotta look through your projects…

Thanks for sharing the vid, Andy! My goodness, what a bench! Love the bird's eye maple too much!

That sliding lamp feature is gonna get copied on an Alabama bench soon! just sayin'


----------



## widdle

Red..Good job way to keep it going,..but, the material not 
bearing on the top of your end vise is driving me nuts..
Thanks Brit ..good vid.
Woodcox..yes , reef walkers..intersting..


----------



## widdle

terryr
I wonder if anyone makes or uses a long snake light type fixture, that would hang from the ceiling, and than could just be bent up when not needed ?


----------



## terryR

Widdle, my ceiling is 14 feet high, bud. You better build the snake light long! 

And I'll take two.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

not bearing on the top of your end vise is driving me nuts..

ok, ya lost me there.

edit: I see what your saying. It only hangs over the minimum distance between my dog holes. I've never had a problem with that setup. Didn't know you were such a bench snob Widdle;-P


----------



## WhoMe

Just watched part of that Cosman video on the workbench. Wow, there are some great ideas.

It CRACKED me up though. At 2:50 you see Rob twist the lamp right into the camera…. I watched a second time to make sure. Just too funny.


----------



## chrisstef

Bondo - shop log bud. Talk to mauricio.

Friends dont let friend wear foot gloves. Jus sayin. (Pay attention Scott)

Nice work rojo. Workin out a couple of freckles. Ive just started to create a dedicated area for sharpening and i can all ready see its merits.


----------



## mochoa

Red, the shop is looking great man. Sharpening station is a must. I hear you on having the old bench against the wall, even though my old bench is ugly it accumulates all the crap so my new bench doesn't get cluttered.

Brit, the Cosman video is very nice although I cant see making a bench with fancy veneer.
I'm going through it in parts, so far a lot of good ideas. I like the lamp slide, that could work for me.

Bondo, you got to have a shop log. Osage orange shop log would be the Mutt's Nuts!


----------



## WhoMe

So Mauricio…. Is that the Ren and Stimpy log in the background???


----------



## mochoa

I need a Ren and Stimpy sticker to put on it!


----------



## widdle

What are the uses of a shop log ?


----------



## mochoa

-Stool
-Chopping block
-Weight
-Place to let rags dry
-Just looks cool


----------



## mochoa

You know the flip down blocks on the Cosman bench are really appealing to me. I wonder how that would look on my bench? I'm gonna mock it up on sketchup.


----------



## chrisstef

Other shop log uses:

Frustration beatings
Setting chisel handles
Bug/Rodent squasher
Shop confidant (shop log never talk)
Improving balance (plyometrics)


----------



## Mosquito

I was originally going to do some sort of flip down feet on my bench, except have wheels on them (similar to Scotty's bench). But that was before I ended up keeping the bench in my apartment lol. That was part of the design when I was going to leave the bench at my Parents' and take it in and out through the patio door in the basement. Then it ended up being collapsible instead, which I'm ok with


----------



## mochoa

Check it out. 









I don't know, there is something about it that's not right aesthetically.


----------



## Mosquito

yeah, having the stretcher underneath is weird with the splayed leg design, I think


----------



## chrisstef

Dang Maur youre like some sketch up savant. Was there a "curly brown" finish option in there or you free hand that coloring? Aslo not a huge fan of the bottom stretcher under the legs.


----------



## mochoa

Maybe just the feet then with no connector in between.

I'm actually not that good in sketchup. That was some steamed beach texture I found that was the closest I could find to red oak.


----------



## chrisstef

Feet a lil larger than the legs themselves with a little decorative ogee or something would be a nice touch.


----------



## mochoa

I think you would need a connector though, otherwise flipping the feet would be two difficult. It might not look great but having that extra height when needed would be so nice.


----------



## widdle

nice drawing….Couldn't you just kick a couple 6" x 8" s under the legs when needed…with some kind of little nacho where the legs will seat..the hinge seems over complcated…

Still looking for a shop log…Not many trees left around here..


----------



## donwilwol

I'd try to Make the stretcher smaller than the feet. Maybe 1/3 the width so it looks more like a stretcher of that piece. I think that would look better and still give the same results.


----------



## widdle

Do you think the dude bought the reef walkers before , before he figured the riser….


----------



## mochoa

Widdle if you didnt have hinges it would be tough to lift the end of the bench with two hands and then kick the board unde the legs.

Don, I'll play with the dimensions and see if I can improve the looks.


----------



## theoldfart

Finally going to join the crowd. Some stock followed me home in the back of my truck:


















This should be enough for the legs and short stretchers:









6×6x8' $70.00
Waiting for a price on 8/4 red oak 10" wide 10'+. The lumber yard is closing in the next few weeks.


----------



## chrisstef

Those certainly look like theyre gonna do the trick brother. It also appears weve got another player in the smackdown. Hopefully youre as slow as I am Kevin 

Good score!

(FWIW- I just saw a 32" wide 9/4 piece of oak on the craiger in NW CT for $250.)


----------



## theoldfart

*SLOOOOOOWER*


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sweet Kev, nother bench on the way.

I'd never seen flip down wheels until Scotty's bench. Here's the po' boy route I went with on my first bench to keep it mobile. The wheels are mounted maybe 1/8" off the floor. Lower bolts go all the way through to handle the torque. I still move it this way…. just lifting on one end.


----------



## theoldfart

Think Chris Schwarz had some i one of his books.


----------



## donwilwol

I wouldn't like the idea. Raising and lowering my bench in the middle of my projects just doesn't seem practical to me. I'd rather use fixtures like a maxon vice, which I still need to build but it hasn't annoyed me enough to even move that project up in priority.


----------



## waho6o9

Credit for this work bench goes to this site:

http://theblacksmithsanvil.com/wp/?cat=57
It has a lot of great metal working on there as well.


----------



## JayT

Another bench build! Get after it Kevin. No matter how slow it goes, you'll probably still beat Stef getting done 

Wahoo, I just want to know the weight of that thing. Good grief, what a massive chunk of lumber!

Made a bit more progress today.

Piece of 4/4 ash. Make a couple of wiiiiiide dadoes and clean them up with the 604.










Rip a couple 3in wide pieces, flip and match them and ta-da! Endcap with tool slots. Plus a bonus-the scrap pieces trim up nicely to make planing stops.










Won't install until the top is flattened.


----------



## Airframer

*I HAVE!...................... A LEG!!!*



















Now just have to keep from screwing up the other 3 and we are off to the races finally


----------



## mochoa

Kevin those timbers will be sweet for making a bench!


----------



## widdle

Some good action goin down today..That big slab wahoo posted is the way to go..


----------



## JayT

Went back to the shop after supper. Cut and chiseled out a pocket for the front vise, then cleaned it up with a 71.










Fits like a glove. Now need to finish the jaw liner.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Very nice progress AF and JayT. Keep it up fellas.

Maur- ya, kinda renovated my shop while you were down south. Posted some of it on the shop forum. I know, I'm hard to keep up with;-)


----------



## Airframer

And then there were two!


----------



## theoldfart

What do folks think about a thread gallery of workbenches. Each completed bench would have ONE pic and basic info. Then someone like me could peruse this thread and go to the builders page and read all about it, ask questions, and make some informed choices. There are a lot of absolutely spectacular benches here and I'm overwhelmed by the time needed to troll through each one.
PS this is my anal-retentive side speaking!


----------



## Airframer

We could just all agree on a common keyword for the finished project kinda like the tool swaps. Maybe we could tag our benches with "Smackdown" that way you could search all of them from this thread ond comment/ask questions on the specific project post?

*Question*

For the splayed legs.. should they be through mortised? I am trying to picture how the base would be attached to the top once all the stretchers are in place and an angled mortise seems like it would bind while the whole assembly is getting set into place (that probably made no sense).

I'll try to be a bit clearer… The front legs have to be pounded in straight down but an angled mortise would need to be pounded at an angle so as the back legs go in wouldn't it bind up on the front legs and vise verse?


----------



## JayT

Good progress, AF.

For me, called on the abilities of Mr. Heft N. Hubris, AKA 608, to flatten the benchtop










Mounted vises, attached end pieces and here we are at the moment.










Just need to do jaw faces, dog holes, ease the edges and finish.


----------



## RPhillips

Looking good


----------



## DonBroussard

@JayT-Looks like you've been getting some high quality shop time in, and it shows. Your bench is really shaping up!


----------



## BrandonW

Okay, lots of awesome stuff going on in this thread. That massive bench that Wahoo posted is so drool worthy. I would love to have a big shop with a bench like that in there in addition to my regular workbench and a joinery bench.

Eric, you're making great progress. Your bench is coming along very nicely!

I also like the "smackdown" tag idea. Perhaps I'll add it to my bench and get the ball rolling.

Update: added the tag to my post. Smitty, Scott, Mauricio, Red etc., you all should do the same so mine's not lonely (if you want).


----------



## widdle

Skilligan with chainsaw…He split the line where he knocked the corner off… Would be nice to see more of that shop…


----------



## Airframer

Brandon - My bench will have that tag.. in a year or so when it's finished lol.


----------



## BrandonW

LOL, Eric, let's hope its sooner than that! You're so close.


----------



## DanKrager

Airframer, it seems to me that you have a leg up… 
DanK


----------



## Sylvain

Airframer
in answer to your post #5636,
you either do it like Roy Underhill
see
french workbench part 1
http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/2700/2705.html

or you do it like Mauricio, 
with an angled tenon on the rear legs, so you can drop the top vertically.


----------



## RGtools

Gloat beginning now.

These beams are 6 feet long, reclamation elm, 4×6 and cost about .87 a board foot. This is why I am nice to my lumber dealer (actually it's because I like him, and he likes that I actually build with the wood he cuts).



















They should make for a smackdown worthy bench base when I am done. End gloat.


----------



## waho6o9

A worthy gloat RG!

That some fine timber you scored.


----------



## theoldfart

"End gloat" nah just the beginning. Good find.


----------



## Airframer

*Sylvain* - Thanks for the link but it's a day late and a dollar short for that method. My front M&T's are already cut straight. I did however, just spend about 30 mins sitting and staring at the legs and I have it figured out. I just need to keep the side stretchers unpinned and loose so they will settle as the base settles.


----------



## RPhillips

nice score! I hope that I can come across some thing like that, about the only way I'll be able to afford to build a nice work bench. Right now I'm using my table saw


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

RG, excited about that elm, it will rock.

'Smackdown' added to bench project keywords.


----------



## WhoMe

RPhillips, you don't have to feel bad or lonely. I use my table saw as a mobile everything. Workbench, assembly table, finishing table, frustration edifice that when planing wood it is too high and the whole table moves (even with the wheels locked), place to pile junk to keep it off the floor, oh and even a table saw….
It shares the garage with a WHOLE lot of other junk, yard tools, car and other ww tools so it has to be mobile.


----------



## RGtools

*RPhillips* That is the dilemma I had for years. I will give you this tip. Someone in your area certainly does hazardous tree removal. Talk to them about what gets done with their wood. One of them is likely to have someone who mills the wood locally. That wood is cheep and sustainable, and the guy who cuts it is a good person to make nice with.

Beyond that a bench made out of cheap 2x4 is a hell of a lot better than nothing at all. I have made a lot of good stuff on this bench. There are things I want out of my next bench, but as far as needs go, this thing covers the bases.

At the very least, make a set of bents and buy a solid core door to put on top of them, that could not put you out of pocket more than $50 or so, and you can keep for TS free for cutting.


----------



## RPhillips

WhoMe, yep that's pretty much where I'm at. I had a Billiards Table that got similar treatment (at least once I had kids, anyways)

RG, I do have some horses and a make-shift top that I use on top of it, but it leaves much to be desired when if comes to trying to plane on it. Some good advice on the tree removal. Had co-worker suggest calling around to find someone to bring me the logs, but I have no room here to even consider that. Didn't think about asking around for a local mill…will have to do.

Until then, I'll be perusing here dreaming of a new bench. At least that will give me time to figure out exactly what I want….


----------



## BigRedKnothead

+1 on cheap lumber sources making things possible. Early on I went to hardwood retail /distributtor ect, but now I only go there for sheet goods. Took me a while but I found the small mom 'n pop sawmills via woodfinder.com, craigslist, and the local woodworking guild. You just have to keep asking around. Added bonus….you'll meet some great people.

Similar to RG my fav lumber source has become a good friend. He doesn't really to much woodworking (or use the hand planes he collects) so it's really rewarding to him when I bring pics of the things I've made with his lumber. He just does it because he enjoys it. He saves certain stuff and hooks me up all the time.

I'm sure some thought I was nuts for making my recent lumber rack out of oak, But I've got less than $100 in that thing. Plus, I'm pretty sure it'll last the rest of my days. And I've only got a couple hundred bucks in the oak, walnut, and poplar on the rack. 


Added smackdown to my bench keyword. Least I think I did it right.


----------



## Airframer

Sweet. Too bad to OP isn't around much any more to edit the original post to add http://lumberjocks.com/projects/tag/smackdown to it. But there are 3 there so far and a fine set of 3 it is.


----------



## BrandonW

All Roubos, too. Hopefully we can get some other types, too.


----------



## RGtools

I added smackdown to my ugly bench, because despite being gastly, it is a fantastic starter bench. And since my link from earlier did not work for* RPhillips*, I linked it below.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Eric - send the OP the link in a PM and he just may do the edit you request…


----------



## Airframer

Alright Smitty.. I sent him a message. We shall see how that goes.


----------



## RPhillips

RG, thanks for the link. I'd be very happy with that bench…

My plan is make a split Roubo with M&T jointed leg assembly and bolting down the top to it. I want to add a tool holder between the two tops that I can flip over and have a 3/4" reveal to act as a dog. My question is how hard is it to add a vice on later? I'd like to have both a leg and end vise, but due to costs, I'd like to add those later. From the looks of it, the leg vise looks to be very straight forward and should be easily added later, but I'm not real sure how the end vises are attached and what I need to do to ensure that I can add it later.

As you can see, I still have a little more research to do on benches.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ It's a great idea, hope Newage comes through!


----------



## mochoa

wait whats going on? should I try to add smackdown to my bench project post?


----------



## Airframer

*Mauricio* We are trying to link all of the bench builds together similar to the tool swap projects. This way one can just click a link and see all of them together instead of trolling through 5000+ posts to find all the benches.


----------



## theoldfart

*Mauricio*, it helps the digitally impaired like myself. I've just started to build a bench and really don't want to reinvent the wheel. Plagiarism is more my speed


----------



## mochoa

But isnt that the same as going to the projects page and searching for workbenches?


----------



## mochoa

Yeah, just tried that and its not that clean of a search. My bench has jut been smacked down.


----------



## Airframer

Yeah just searching the "workbench" tag brings up all sorts of things. Most not even remotely related to a workbench other than the fact that it was possibly built on one. This will bring up nothing BUT workbenches to browse through and gain ideas and inspiration from.


----------



## Tugboater78

a start..
http://lumberjocks.com/Tugboater78/blog/36656


----------



## RGtools

Depends on the vise *RPhillips*, A leg vis can be pretty dirt cheap (Just buy a good screw from LV and make the other parts). Just make sure you have enough heft in your fron leg to support the large hole required for the vise screw and the retrofit should be fairly simple.

Are you going to attach some face vise in leau of that at first?

You can get along without a tail vise for quite some time (some would say forever). I really need to post a picture of my latest workolding solution for edge jointing narrow stock, it proves this point well. Tail vises are harder to retrofit. First the old school German vise with the giant block requires you to accuratly remove a lot of stock from your bench. Diddo on a wagon vise. If that is the style of vise you think you will like then plan to install them early on.

Of course you could just add a quick release vise or a twin screw vise to the end you will have a pretty easy go of it. Just make sure you leave enough of an overhang for your screws so they don't hit the base of your bench…or beef up the stretcher on that side and drill holes for the screws when you install them.

Retrofitting is easy if you pre plan. One thing I would make my mind up on now though is a sliding deadman, retrofitting that is a drag.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ya, what he said;-)

Great start Tug.


----------



## lysdexic

OK - just catching up. Just added the tag word "tea bag" to my work bench project. Right?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Yep, that'll do fine Scotty. Nice choice. ;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

LOL Scotty, I can't decide if you or Stef has the best sense of humor on Ljs.


----------



## BrandonW

This place wouldn't be the same without Scotty and Stef.


----------



## RPhillips

Retrofitting is easy if you pre plan. One thing I would make my mind up on now though is a sliding deadman, retrofitting that is a drag.

Not sure exactly what that is… I'll be googling that in a minute…

I would like a wagon vise (a vise like the one that is on the Bench Crafted Roubo build), but I can live without one, or atl least that's my thinking… I do want a leg vise and I'll be doing 5"- 6" thick legs, so hopefully that will suffice.


----------



## woodcox

Give me a ping. One ping only, please.









First dress rehearsal.


----------



## donwilwol

*RPhillips*, here is a retrofit of a sliding deadman so as usual Ryan's advice is extremely sound.

*woodcox* 'PING'


----------



## chrisstef

Brandon - When your wife dressed as the tea bag did you happen to get a pair of Arabian sun goggles to complete the Halloween outfit?

Woddcox - Nice trestle there buddy. Id ping ya but Don beat me to it. Dibs on the next one.

RP - retrofitting a deadman would certainly suck. It requires a groove on the underside of the bench top. Well unless you don't mind using a router upside down, laying on your back, pushing upwards. Now I might be dumb but I aint stupid, cant say id suggest that maneuver.


----------



## donwilwol

ha, Now I might be dumb but I aint stupid, cant say id suggest that maneuver. so I screwed a tongue under the bench and put the groove in the deadman. Very poor pre-planning on my part, but what did I know.


----------



## chrisstef

Ive got a lot to say about that last sentence Don but ill relegate myself to saying that was a smart choice.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, RP you would want plan ahead if you want any vise "built-in" to the top. On the other hand, vises like the ones on my bench can be added any time down the road. Just leave enough overhang for the end vise.

Different topic, but I've got a lead on a bunch of LN tools. Tough to get a deal on those, but he says he'll go about 1/2 retail. I'm freaking stoked. Might be blowing the cash I save for my joinery bench though;-)


----------



## donwilwol

Wow, half retail is unheard of for LN tools


----------



## chrisstef

You can dismantle your lumber rack for the joinery bench materials Red, do not pass up on 1/2 off LN's bro. I will come and slap … jump slap you, you lanky ba$tard.


----------



## DanKrager

I've seen and heard about a couple of places where LN tools are being offered well below retail price. Makes me wonder if LN is missing some inventory… ????
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Lanky bast….lol
Nah, it appears to be a guy with money to burn who changes hobbies too often. Said he has "the works" set. If its as good as it sounds, I will be emptying my pockets. Should know by this weekend.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm sure you could post some of the excess here, and recoup some of the joinery bench… I'll ship you a pair of 1 1/2" maple screws for a panel saw


----------



## lysdexic

"The Works" package…...................full chub


----------



## Brit




----------



## donwilwol

I've got some air dried ash I'd gladly trade for some LN love!


----------



## BrandonW

I got books, lots of books I can trade.


----------



## terryR

I call dibs on the LN crosscut panel saw if Red brings one home…and doesn't need it.


----------



## DaddyZ

I beat all of you… I call dibs on the Tools he is Upgrading these from …..

HaHAHAHA ( insert evil laugh here)

 JK Good haul - go for it !!!


----------



## chrisstef

Scotty likes the "full package" because of all the leather.


----------



## RPhillips

I do plan to add a Sliding Deadman to my build, just need to figure out how to do it. I know with my limited knowledge of terminology, I'm going to butcher this up, but here goes…

I'm thinking about a 45° rabbet in top (underside) of the bench with a 45° bevel on the lower cross member…and bevel/rabbet the Deadman to match. Make sense? lol


----------



## DanKrager

Dead pan drool! That is SO British, Andy. LOL.
DanK


----------



## donwilwol

don't let him slobber all over my new chisels!!


----------



## RGtools

*Rphillips.* Sounds like more work than it needs to be. Try this: one groove cut into the underside of the benchtop. Make it deeper at one end so you can lift the deadman up later to remove it if needed (obviously the shoulder of your deadman needs to allow this). Your 45 degree bevel idea for the bottom is very sound and much easier to do to the front stretcher when the bench is in peices.

Make some sense?


----------



## waho6o9

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/3897959618.html










No affiliation.


----------



## Tugboater78

Oh wow waho…


----------



## Boatman53

I'd love to stumble on something like that.
Andy, like the dog.
Back to the benches…. I put a cutout on the bottom rail to remove the deadman. The rabbet on top is very shallow so as not to weaken the top.



















I don't know when I would need it that close to the vise.
Ji


----------



## mochoa

I did the same thing as Jim but added a little "door". I've actually left that little piece off in the end, don't really need it as Jim said. 

















Also I chamfered the back corner of the tenon to make it easier to remove.


----------



## theoldfart

Smackdown tag count at 7, thanks folks.

Did find a little more wood but not sure its going to go into the bench. Mahogany 4×4x8':


----------



## RPhillips

thanks for the pics, helps a bunch. and good tip on leaving a "door" for removal.


----------



## chrisstef

Nice score Kevin! Gonna take some guts to cut those puppies up. Gorgeous stuff.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Feels a little funny saying, "Nice wood Kev."

Looks like I gave everyone my LN fever this morning. Hope it works out. That stuff wahoo posted in LC area is peculiar. Why would a guy buy a bunch of LN stuff and never use it? Ones I'm looking at are supposed to be lightly used with a little surface rust from sitting for a while. 
Trying not to get too twitterpated until I've got em in my freckled hands. The only LN stuff I have is a couple of block planes so I don't know if there will be much I don't want. But I may sell some of the planes tools they replace as DaddyZ suggested.
Due to the holiday, and my having to work 70 hours this week, we won't be able to meet up until this weekend. I won't even obsess about it until then









Little teaser from an email.


----------



## BrandonW

So much rust on that thing, Red, I'm not sure it's salvageable. ;-)


----------



## shampeon

Best guess on the LN stuff from Orange County: some guy in Coto de Caza with more money than patience decides he wants to become a Woodworker. Buys a Powermatic cab saw, band saw, planer, and jointer because he read that they're The Best. Then he reads about the magic of hand tools, and buys a full set of Lie-Nielsen planes and chisels because they're The Best. Maybe three or four pieces of wood ever get touched by those tools. Making stuff is hard. After a while, the same guy decides to be a cyclist, or buy a boat, and needs all this woodworking crap out of the way. Your wealthier communities are full of these sad men.


----------



## lysdexic

Ian - have we met before?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Lol- Scotty.

As usual, well said shamp. Now let us poor blue collar folk benefit from their folly;


----------



## BrandonW

Scotty, when you get bored of your tools, please sell them to me!


----------



## theoldfart

Ian, I've ridden and raced with some those same people. As soon as the ride goes uphill their new shiny bike made of expensiveum let's them down. Training is HARD!
PS. That's how I got my titanium race bike, rich guy wanted "better" bike


----------



## RGtools

Note to self: Troll rich communities for tools.


----------



## DaddyZ

RG^ Amen Brother !!!


----------



## Tugboater78

owww my arms be aching but getting somewhere










nother entry to my ongoing blog being put up later, came in for a breather

http://lumberjocks.com/Tugboater78/blog/series/6473


----------



## mochoa

Way to go Justin. How do you keep them from moving on those saw horses?


----------



## chrisstef

Good gawd man, youre a better man than I Justin. Get your swoll on.


----------



## TerryDowning

I believe it's called the "more money than brains crowd".


----------



## AnthonyReed

Right on Justin! Friggin awesome!


----------



## Tugboater78

Maurico i have a lil quickgrip clamp i move to one horse or the other to clamp the opposite end i am working and or i sit on them to hold em steady.The top of the horses have a 1×4 piece of an old interior door frame screwed into them to keep top from swaying and the oak 6×6s on the bottom weigh them down, not including the finished boards sitting on top.

not the best setup, but once i get my first section glued up and flattened i should have a good base to work off of for the rest.


----------



## widdle

Right on Tug…Looks like some nice oak..that's gonna be a great bench..


----------



## JayT

Nice pile of shavings, Justin! Looks like you can cancel your gym membership for a couple months.

Edit: And I love the attitude of doing with what you've got until you build something better. How very refreshing and different from the people Ian obviously hangs around with


----------



## RPhillips

Now that's making some shavings!

At least if you pass out you'll have a nice comfy hamster bed to lay on. lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Justin, you are an animal. Simply out-friggin'-standing!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Also, how many stares have you gotten from folks driving by? "What is he DOING with those planes? Why doesn't he use a saw or sander?" lol


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Right on Tug. Back when people *worked* on the their stuff…..they didn't have to pay for a gym membership.

*small jab at my neighbor who pays his lawn mowed while he pays to go to the gym;-)


----------



## Brit

BigRed - That's a signature worthy quote right there.


----------



## shampeon

Dammit, I probably need to find a less obnoxious set of friends, although there's always the prospect of getting some awesome yachts, executive jets, bicycles, golf clubs, and Lie-Nielsen stuff for a song. Hmm. Decisions decisions.

Meanwhile, I was working on my own particular hubris this afternoon.









Throwing the MF No. 24 around felt great/bad. You all probably understand.

I was going back and forth on whether I wanted to keep the 12/4 red oak slabs in one wide flat-sawn piece, or mill them to show the quartered medulary rays. Rays win. I'm going to add some 6/4 cherry boards too, because I can. So the final tally will be: 3" thick top of red oak & cherry, probably with some cherry breadboards to add some length; 6×4 vertical grain old-growth Douglas fir legs & stretchers.


----------



## theoldfart

A client of mine just gave me a heads up on a barn he's been contracted to clean up. The loft area has old hand hewn beams maybe 8×8 stored there. Some mortise pockets and not much in the way of nails though light wasn't very good. How can you tell what kind of wood? I think I just might take whatever he has to offer. May have to bring the chain saw two of them have to be 20'+. Will post pics if I get lucky.


----------



## donwilwol

I know getting 20+ foot 8×8s home would be a challenge, but those thing are probably worth some hassle


----------



## theoldfart

My poor Tacoma, have to knock out the windshield.


----------



## donwilwol

hey, it would only hang out the tailgate about 16'.


----------



## theoldfart

You mean drag?


----------



## DanKrager

Here's a couple thoughts, TOF Just put some wheels under the outboard end and call it a trailer. Borrow a boat trailer. Get a buddy to put the other end in his pickup and drive backwards, etc. etc.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

I'm gonna do it! Just need to find some lights so I don't get stopped.


----------



## donwilwol

I had nightmares last night of you chainsawing some 21' chestnut 8×8s. I woke up in a cold sweat!


----------



## theoldfart

BRRRRRRRR. Can't see myself doing it either. Looking for a bud with big trailer!


----------



## theoldfart

Quick question. How long should I let the 6×6's sit in the shop before I begin to size them up. Should I cut them to length right away? One of them has a twist, so I will need to cut it down to reduce my waste. They aremilled so actual size is 5 1/2, my design calls for legs 5×4.


----------



## chrisstef

Kevin- id cut em to rough length leaving a lil extra. You could do a light pass through the planer to about 5 1/4×4 1/2(ish), let em sit a few days then bring em down to 5×4 and cut to final length.


----------



## donwilwol

If they were in a dry barn, they are probably good. If they were covered and/or were acceptable to moisture, follow Stef's advice.


----------



## terryR

Yeah, if the wood is under the barn's roof, it should be dry. If it's like the stuff I have which is older than me, it is hard as nails.Doesn't really matter the species. Darn near petrified!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Might have a line on 'lots of walnut and cherry lmbr' through a friend, and Tues next week is the day to take a look. Older woodworker deciding he can't do it anymore (sad) but has an outbuilding of stickered wood. Also shop tools. Looking foward to next week…


----------



## chrisstef

Sounds tasty Smitty. Good luck bruddah.


----------



## theoldfart

*Smitty*, congratulations your good fortune. A fine bottle of wine to the retiring woodworker might be in order!


----------



## Tugboater78

i had to cut 10×10 oak former floor joists down to 8' from the house i took down, 2 of them squatted my S10 with the heavy suspension..


----------



## theoldfart

*Justin*, from the barn to my back door is just 4.5 miles, all back roads in bad shape. Probably move one at a time. Problem is i have a fiberglas cap on my tacoma










, think maybe i should take it off and lay them across the cab roof with padding.


----------



## waho6o9

Maybe put a rack on your Tacoma?

You'll be doing more than one project me thinks.


----------



## theoldfart

*waho6o9*, have that exact same Thule on the cap! Wasn't sure if a load overhanging front and back would over stress the cap top.









Light load on this trip, usually get four bikes and two sea kayaks.


----------



## waho6o9

That's awesome Kevin.

Maybe ask the manufacturer about weight loads?


----------



## theoldfart

Just a LITTLE hint, there are eight benches tagged smackdown and 5,749 comments. Thats about .14%. Need info, don't want to think on my own!

just a little PIA, thats me.


----------



## DanKrager

TOF, if you're serious about putting atop your Toy, it would be helpful to move some of the stress of the overload (I'm sure it would be) to a 2x? "A" frame from the bumpers up to the timbers. You would have to be pretty creative to secure it to the bumpers, but if you went below the bumpers you might find a secure place to fasten to. Don't try this, but I saw a ratty vehicle with an extension ladder and some pipe tied underneath the car…a real hill billy look! LOL
DanK


----------



## waho6o9

+1 for DanK, make something like this for the front bumper and you're
good to go.


----------



## woodcox

Half the battle. A little more drawboring and coloring and I'll have a set.


----------



## theoldfart

let me send you my address so you can ship them on your tab of course.
Beautiful


----------



## mochoa

Woodcox, that is a beautiful trestle. Great job!


----------



## chrisstef

The feet give it a little bit of a Danish feel imo. Gonna be killer woodcox.


----------



## lysdexic

Woodcox (he said cox) that is just friggin awesome. Beautiful. Handsome. Impressive. ScottyByo likes.


----------



## terryR

+3 or 4 to what everyone says! Woodcox, that is a gorgeous build. The proportions and shapes are very pleasing to stare at for many minutes. Cannot wait to see the finished pair!


----------



## Airframer

Great Googly Moogly you guys are busting out some serious timbers on these recent builds! Lookin' good!

Making more progress on mine this morning… angled mortises for the splayed legs in work.


----------



## Mosquito

oooh, goin' for the angled mortise and tenon. I ended up just doing vertical tenons on the end of my splayed legs. I believe that's what Mauricio did as well. Look forward to it. Ultimately, I just got lazy lol


----------



## mochoa

Eric, thats some sweet boring action going on there.

However, hopefully I'm not about to throw a monkey wrench in your plans but… How are you going to put that thing together if your front mortises are vertical and the back ones are angled?

That only worked for Roy Underhill because he had the rising dovetail in the front which was also angled.


----------



## Mosquito

^ oh yeah, that was my other reason lol


----------



## mochoa

I think you have two options there. Either make the side stretchers dovetailed in to the sides so you can glue in after the legs are in. 









Or skip stretchers and put trestle feet on it which might look cool, not sure.


----------



## Airframer

I had pondered on that for a while before starting and have figured out that if the side stretchers are left loose and not seated then they should settle into place as the base settles (all in theory of course.. ) All else fails I can figure out something creative for the stretchers lol.


----------



## Airframer

Well, for better or worse we have the beginnings of an angled mortise through to both sides. Just have some cleanup to do and off to the next one.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice work. The narex mortise chisel is nice for that work. First 2 workbench mortises I used my normal bench chisels. It chewed them right up…


----------



## RGtools

Awesome Airframer. Let us know how that goes and if you figure out any tricks to make it easier. I have a design where I want to use those so I would love the info.


----------



## BrandonW

Looking good, Eric. And like Mos says, that's a fun chisel to use on those big mortises! I just made a bench (you know the kind you sit on!) which had some rather large mortises that were made easy with the Narex 1/2" mortise chisel.


----------



## Airframer

Yep it was you two (Brandon and Mos) who sold me on them. I have already used them to make the 2 large 4" deep mortises on the front legs. They ARE a lot of fun to beat on that is for sure.

Right now I think it is time for another chisel sharpening party though. Almost done with that mortise but maint must be done I think.

*Ryan* - I will definitely be keeping you guys updated on how it goes (i.e. annoying you all with endless picture posts lol) as I give it a go


----------



## chrisstef

Eric - you give me an inferiority complex. Nice job!


----------



## JoeLyddon

I think I can safely say that This workbench, once studied from start to finish, will definitely arouse your brain making it Think in various directions.

*V8 Degree wedge powered workbench #1: Some Features and Operational Videos.*

Enjoy…


----------



## BrandonW

We've talked about that bench here in the past. I'm not the hugest fan of the wedges myself, but it definitely saves on vise screws! Knowing me, I'd probably bump my knee on that wedge sticking out of the leg vise.


----------



## CL810

AF - you're setting a high bar. Charge on!


----------



## terryR

Eric, you're making me sweat! Nice work!

Brandon, I kinda like that square outdoor bench. Is that pressure treated lumber, or the lighting on my iPad? Wow, I can't believe you mortised into that hard stuff…


----------



## BrandonW

Thanks, Terry! I'm pretty sure the material was PT. That said, it was recycled from an old swingset that broke and the neighbors left on the street. When I saw the large 4×4s and 6×4s, I knew they had to become something new, despite all the previous holes, chips, and damage. I think it turned out pretty well, but when it dries out from the rain, I'll throw some sort of finish on it. The whole thing is mortise and tenon construction with dowels pinning them in place. Ten mortises in all. The top of the bench is held together with threaded rods and a 1/2" spacer between each piece. It would make for an awesome saw bench, but I don't have the room for it inside the shop.


----------



## terryR

^nice save.
I thought I saw pins…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

AF- Your a beast.

Brandon- +1 on nice save and nice little bench.

Haven't seen my shop for a couple days. Snuck in some galoot(hand tool only) time today. Made a couple of bench hooks. Bet you guys didn't think I even owned a brace;-)


----------



## Airframer

Well, darnit I was trying to lower the bar a bit. I'll try harder at that.

Finished that mortise only one more to go on the top!



















This has my new mallet crying for mercy though lol. Might need to make a new one soon.


----------



## chrisstef

Check out tonzagunz chipping out an oak mallet head. Again, get your swoll on!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=swoll


----------



## Airframer

LOL Stef..

There is nothing more satisfying than chopping a tenon with a chisel the Sellers way. I could do that all day long.

Then there were three! It almost looks like a bench now


----------



## Tugboater78

Spent the day in the "shop" literally filling my shoes with sweat, pouring rain and fan blowing on my the whole time. No pics but I almost finished making a bench, so I can build my bench…......

This one

Looking good AF, glad I have no plans for big ole mortices on my bench.


----------



## terryR

Eric, looking great! Makes me wanna start another bench now!

'tonsagunz' maybe you need a purpleheart mallet? or ipe? 

Stef, you're really hip on the urban lingo, I can see. I guess I've been in a cave too long…or a few hundred too long.


----------



## chrisstef

Lol Terry. Ive i dunno how much hip i got left in me but ive always had my own personal vocabulary of words ive made up along the way. Mostly nonsence, codewords and jargon.


----------



## terryR

+1 on codewords…anyone who is stupid enough to drive 10 feet behind my F-250, I call a 'trailer'. 

gonna have to read up on the urban dictionary…


----------



## chrisstef

Any one who watches you work : TJ's. short for TJ Looker. Changed from TJ Hooker.


----------



## terryR

ooohhh I hate look-y-looes. I can't stand being watched anyway…a little paranoid?


----------



## chrisstef

Yea doing demolition we always had those on lookers and it seemed like the moment you had to do somethin hairy theyd show up. Lookah lookah lookah!! TeeeJayyyy!!!


----------



## Airframer

Haha Oh the look-y-looe… Where I work we just call them Sir


----------



## Airframer

Got started early today. Tossed some Hank on the player and got to work making a hole.
(just noticed that my player seems to be a day behind. Need to fix that eventually)










Ready for cleanup ;-)










Took me a bit to figure out how to restart the hole after I fell asleep at the wheel and allowed the bit to strip out it's pull screw. Ya learn something new everyday lol.

*Stef* - haven't seen many updates on your bench lately. Letting the rest of us catch up to you?


----------



## chrisstef

Lol AF. Im dead in the water until i resaw some timber for the stretchers. My neighbors supposed to help me sometime this weekend. Hoping for tomorrow. We'll see. Ive also jumped into learning how to sharpen handsaws. I need a good rip saw to make some cuts for through mortises on the bench. Multiple projects. Thats how i roll. One long term (bench) one i can piddle around with as time allows (sharpening). Im holding steong to my xmas deadline for the bench.


----------



## Airframer

I'm the same way. I started this build and then figured out I needed better tools which led me on a tool collection spree which then led to figuring out how to restore said tools. Then I "needed" other projects to facilitate this one and on and on. I finally said enough with it and have refocused on just finishing this guy and move on from there.


----------



## theoldfart

I guess this is a me too post. Started to cut down the timbers into leg and stretcher lengths. Started with the twisted one first, wasn't too bad:








Used Craftsman Chrome Edge and Nicholson cross cut saws and got it cut. There was a high ridge along the pith side :









Took it down with a 5 and 7c:


























Once one side was flat opted to square the next side with my power joiner. Finished touching up with my block








So two legs square two sides.









Next two will be easier, the beam is straight!


----------



## Airframer

Now that's what I am talking about! Those legs look BEEFY!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Aesthetically beefy!


----------



## theoldfart

*Smitty*, are you suggesting it was a staged affair? Pshaw!!

Just to redeem myself with the gossamer set, I did the stretcher without a tail:









Still needed a handicap:









Worked out well:









Look ma no gaps!


----------



## Airframer

Well…. I have 4 holes in the top of my bench now. The second half of today will be devoted to cutting and fitting the final leg tenon . Sooooo Cloooose yet so far away still.



















And Justin… why no through mortises on your bench? Come on.. no balls ;-)


----------



## Airframer

Not meaning to spam the topic here but…..

*I HAVE LEGS!!!!!!*

Still need to trim them to level out the top but it IS finally standing on it;s own 4 legs  I feel a HUGE relief finally being at this place in the build. Nearly the home stretch from here (I think..)




























The back splayed legs even ended up the same angle magically! Not bad for eyeballed and hand cut  No electrons were harmed in the making of these legs lol..


----------



## RPhillips

Here's a couple things that I've been thinking of while trying to decide on a bench design.

Leg size - my first thought was I needed to go with 5" or 6" legs for my bench, but it appears that most benches I see are in fact built with 4" legs. I'm thinking of going with 4" for my build too, should I reconsider and go thicker?

Height - I know this probably just a preference thing, but with me being around 6'2" I typically like my benches a little taller to save my back. Should I go 34"- 36" or is it easier to perform your work on a shorter bench.

Wedge vises - any one here using a wedge vise? I'm really liking the idea. I know how capable wedges are and I like that I will make my bench stand apart. Thinking of building a wagon and leg vise using wedges.


----------



## Boatman53

Nice job there airframer. Another milestone, but still a lot to do.
Jim


----------



## widdle

Somebody get that man a cold one ..Good work…workin…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Kevin - heck no, that's not what I was implying. It's an older phrase, that either Mos or Maur threw out there months and months ago: aesthetically beefy… We loved it, it stuck, it applies to what you're up to!

Ditto. Nice job, AF!


----------



## Tugboater78

The timber for my legs are currently 5.5"-6" square, by time I get them worked down I'm guessing 4.5-5" square.


----------



## theoldfart

*Rob*, talk to BRK about bench height he's about your height, part of it depends on wood plane vs iron. On the wedge vise, seems like a of effort in contrast with spinning a wheel or handle.

*AF*, It's alive!!!!


----------



## JayT

Lookin' great, AF!

Rob, lots of personal preference in bench design, both practical and aesthetic.

Height, all kinds of formulas, but the range tends to be 34 to 38 inches, depending on who you ask. Christopher Schwarz likes 34, Paul Sellers prefers 38, both are correct because their benches fit how they work. My advice is start on the higher end, because you can generally cut legs down, but it is a pain to add height.

Shipwright was wedged vises on his bench. Do a search for his bench build blog, he has good pics and instructions.


----------



## Airframer

I have been working on these POS plastic saw horses since I started the top. When I was trying to figure bench height I realized that the height they had the top at was pretty comfy for planing so I measured it. The top of the bench came to 32 1/2". Then I read up on bench height and used the Schwarz method of measuring (hold a measuring stick between your pinky and ring finger held parallel with the ground) and that came to 33" so I figured WTH I'll go 33".

Really it all comes down to how you are using the bench and what is comfortable for you.


----------



## lysdexic

Rob - my legs ended up at 5 1/2" roughly square. This is where I deviated from the TWW plan. I prefer a beefier leg (as does Stef from what I hear). I'd suggest that you make them as large as your material will allow.










I am also 6'2" and finished my bench height at 34" with a nod toward hand planing. I knew that I would build another bench on a bench for detailed work and joinery. A Moxon vise in the case. Further I have a work table adjacent my bench that is 38" in height for general use.


----------



## bondogaposis

Getting the legs on, that is huge, I remember from my build. Nice going there.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Lieutenant Dan….you got new LEGS!.....hehehe. Nice work Eric. It's been fun to follow.

Rob- I'm 6'-6" (unless your checking an old basketball roster), my bench height is 37". Some days it might be nice if it were a little shorter- when I'm doing a lot of planing. But I have a bad back so I opted taller thinking I could always trim it down. I still may trim it after I have a joinery bench and my roubo isn't the "do everything" bench. 
Sometime I'd like to try planing on a shorter bench to see if I like it better. A taller bench doesn't bother me now…..but I am built like a brick $^#+house…...LOL. Ahhh I need to go to bed. Been working all night. Peace out, Red


----------



## chrisstef

Progress baby progress. Resawed the timbers for stretchers.

For you Widdle:


----------



## theoldfart

Two legs and a stretcher:


----------



## widdle

Not bad for an oldfart..

Right on stef..Did they come out traight enough to get the final thickness your shooting for ?


----------



## chrisstef

Yea Widdle plenty of thickness. I took 2 of them down to 2.5". I was planning on 2" but no sense of planing any more material off. Ill work with those the way they sit. Cleaned up pics later this evening.


----------



## Airframer

*Kevin* my legs are sulking in the corner now after seeing those behemoths!

*Stef* Ahhhh! There we go!

*Leg Vise Question* now that I almost have a complete base I am turning my attention to the leg vise but am having trouble finding any information on the size of the parallel guide. All the plans I have found online just gloss over the piece so any info you guys could share would be very well recieved.


----------



## bondogaposis

My parallel guide is 21×4 x 5/8 inches.


----------



## chrisstef

Cleaned up with a lil DNA.


----------



## theoldfart

OK i'll bite, DNA ????


----------



## DonBroussard

@Kevin-Take a look at the "Acronym Glossary": http://lumberjocks.com/topics/40259 if you see an unknown acronym. I update the listing as new acronyms are created. DNA could either be denatured alcohol or blood/skin on a project.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, grasshopper understand now. Thanks


----------



## Airframer

Thanks Bondo! That's what I needed


----------



## chrisstef

In this case, denatured alcohol but im a bleeder so if ya stick around long enough ill cover both acronyms.


----------



## theoldfart

Must do wonders for the grain!


----------



## woodcox

First date in the park. Still need a sacrificial tops. 33 lbs ea. 29 1/4" tall, 36" wide. With a 2" work surface and sac top I should be 32"ish final height. I left tenons on one side longish for now, mayb useful later? Plans called for only one 2x stretcher. I moved it up and replaced it with a 3x. More low mass and I can
harness the horses together with stretchers, or very low scaffolding. Three attempts at a poor finish but I love it. It highlighted the saw marks and checks. It looks old already. Oh, and very little planing and sanding done. I wanted a timber milled look.
Was alot of fun , the most sawdust, chips and shavings I've made yet. Now on to a top design.


----------



## donwilwol

Wow woodcox, before I started reading I was ready to ask how wide they were. They look wiiiiide, but at 36" that's not bad. What's the planned finished width?

They look GOOD.


----------



## woodcox

50" to 80". I am most excited about rearranging the shop, so I'll have to make room and measure for as long as possible top area to comfortably work around. Thanks.


----------



## shampeon

Beautiful Doug fir bookmatch there, chrisstef.

And woodcox, those are some impressive legs.


----------



## chrisstef

Woodcox …. Wow man those are killer. 50-80" wide top … Your gonna have to call in the army corps of engineers to set that battleship. Go big or go home. You sir are not going home.


----------



## woodcox

50" to 80" long. Haven't planned for width yet. I suppose vise orientation will help determine top dimensions. A wacky system of ropes and pulleys may be involved to set it.


----------



## donwilwol

phew, I was thinking like Stef. 80" wide? That's not a bench, its a foundation!


----------



## Airframer

Wait.. Those are just the legs??? I thought you were making a pair of saw horses of some type! This I can't wai to see finished!


----------



## chrisstef

Woodcox. Follow me. Clog shaped feet. Flying dutchman. Huge butteryfly inlays. Glory.


----------



## Boatman53

Airframer…. If you get tired of the pin and want to use the chain on your leg vise it needs to be at least 5/8 of an inch. All of mine (three of them) are 3/4", I just didn't feel like planing them down and the leg was big enough that the wider mortise would weaken the leg.
Jim


----------



## terryR

woodcox, those are amazing! Gorgeous color…awesome beefy structure! They look quite Japanese to me, beautiful and well thought-out. Cannot wait to see the bench!


----------



## widdle

Good style woodcox..


----------



## Airframer

Jim…. I have already decided on a chain instead of the pin but wanted to keep it quiet in respect to your product as I plan to piece it together myself. You have a great design and I don't want to take any business away from you I just have a budget and it doesn't fit into it right now. That said I am simply going to put it on but not provide any details on how I did it though I am sure yours would work a lot better than what I have come up with lol.


----------



## theoldfart

Too much of an itch, had to cut the other two legs and stretchers:


















Hopefully square and dress them up this week then try to scrounge some oak for the top

BTW for those using a leg vise, how wide for the leg? Right now mine will be 5 1/8" is this enough?


----------



## Airframer

Kevin.. that should be plenty wide. Most of the clamping is done on the top portion so you have the width of the top there too.

BTW that pic with the hand saw going through that beam is priceless! I took one of the same types just now as I evened out my legs lol.. pales in comparison!










However it did the trick  Used my well seasoned coffee mug as a crude bubble level and it looks close enough for gov work.. plus my garage floor is anything BUT flat.



















Now to measure out and carve the deadman groove before I forget and get to work on the stretchers.


----------



## theoldfart

Eric thanks, I had an uncle who did gas stove installations, he'd put a glass pot filled half full on the stove to check that it was level. 
It's your fault I cut the rest of the legs, just trying to keep up! Bench lookin' good.


----------



## DonBroussard

@Kevin-Great progress on the bench. That's a great pic of you cutting through that Douglas Fir timber (Post No. 5835) . Since the saw if shiny and square to the beam, it almost looks like your saw is transparent!


----------



## mochoa

Wow, great job Eric! Perfect match on those angles. I worked on my bench for a while when it was like that.

Kevin, that is some serious Aesthetical Beefiness you got going on there!

RP, I think my legs are 5.5"x3.5". the thickness will depend on the size of your bench and if you are going to perforate it with a leg vise.

I went for the Schwarz recommendation of making it lower. Mine is 33.5" and I'm 6.2" most of time I am pretty happy with the height. I say if you are doing all your heavy stock prep on machines go higher. If you plan on doing a lot of hand planning go lower.

Stef, great progress!

Woodcox, great job on those!


----------



## theoldfart

Don, thanks. The only shiny thing I usually get comments on is the top of my head so thanks again


----------



## Tugboater78

Lookin good, I got a start on my bench but weather and time have almost put it to a standstill. In 2 more days I go back to work so nothing will be done till after the 31st. Did get a couple more boards cleaned up, but lacking squareness. Got a new setup almost completed, a bench to build my bench.

Edit coming asap, once my phone gets done emailing my pic to myself… *grumble, technology hates me*


















no top in pics but i just screwed down 2 pieces of 1/2" pine plywood for a top for a temporary fix, probably gonna make top out of the same mterial as my big bench eventually, just not as thick, after big bench is done this will get some trestle feet as it will be a little low for ant\y later use. It does not sway or rock, though it could use some weight, built like almost like a Sellers bench, just not as heavy.

some may notice the small bessey clamp on the floor, it will be mounted on it, with a twin


----------



## Mosquito

Eric, the bench is looking awesome!

Sweet to see progress tug


----------



## CL810

Incredible work going down here.


----------



## carguy460

I'm really digging all the workbench progress going on here! I've finally started mine (bought a little bit of lumber) and already have run into a problem…

I was planning to find some old reclaimed timbers for my bench, but yesterday got a wild hair and figured if I didn't just grab some wood and get started, I'd never get a "proper" bench built…so off to the BORG for some 2×8 Doug Fir…Turns out, they only had enough on hand for about half of my benchtop and all of the boards were knotty, rough, a little bowed…the kind of wood every woodworker says to avoid completely. But, I was excited (though a little PO'd) and managed to actually get all the 2×8's they had on the shelf for 1/2 price!

So now I've got 2×8's that I will rip in half and laminate together to form my bench top, but I'm finding that I'll have a few knots right where I'll be ripping the wood…is this acceptable for a bench top? I'm not sure how I'll flatten the thing, I've never had good luck planing knots! Should I just get a toothed blade and plane through the knots, or would I be better off taking the knots out completely and filling the void with epoxy/wood glue and sawdust?


----------



## chrisstef

If you've got a planer Jason glue up your tops in sections that it can handle, so 12"ish. Get all your sections ready and plane them at the same time to ensure the same thickness. Should take most of the work out of hand planning the knots. If they're loose I vote to pull them out and fill them. If your hand planning try to flip em over so the knot is on the underside.


----------



## donwilwol

Sounds like a good deal Jason. I'm looking forward to the progress.


----------



## terryR

Great looking work, guys…love the handsaws cutting big timbers!

Eric, congrats on a free-standing bench! Those splayed legs are hoss!


----------



## carguy460

Thanks for the input Stef - I don't have a planer except for me and my handplane "collection", so I'll be going at it by hand. I would flip and use the other side on some of them, but it looks like I've got knots on both sides of my problem boards! I'll snap a pic tonight so you can see the crap I'm working with…It is guaranteed to look like hammered dog doo when I'm done, based on the lumber I've got right now!

I've thought about maybe cutting out any knots that end up on top, planing the thing flat, and putting in one of those "bowtie" inlay things. Is a glue (or epoxy) and wood filler going to be hard on my plane irons? That's why I was thinking of the inlay thing…plus I could learn inlay!

EDIT: Thanks Don…I'm not sure how this thing will turn out, but anything that won't move and has a vice on it will at least get me to building more projects! Maybe I'll blog the process for future generations to wonder "What the hell was that guy thinking?"


----------



## chrisstef

Hmm … I dunno about the epoxy but ive used Quikwood before (which is an epoxy), it comes in a tootsie roll, and planed and sanded easily. Available at WC. Id think about using that stuff. Very workable.


----------



## terryR

Jason, I fill lots of knots with epoxy and black sawdust…if the stuff cures properly, you can plane right across it with a dirty, cheap block plane. Sometimes the cured mixture just seems to come off cleaner with the ROS. Lately, I've been using Elmer's fiberglass resin tinted with any color oil paint you like, for gaps, cracks, etc. Awesome results as long as you add 10 times as much hardner as directed. Haven't subjected a plane to the resin yet…more ROS.

cough…cough…cough…

I left all the knots in my bench…too many to remove from that 'premium' lumber I got at the borg.


----------



## CL810

Check out this LJ's portable workbench.


----------



## carguy460

Roger that Stef and Terry…I'll look into the Quickwood…I really REALLY hate sanding, but I do have a dirty, cheap block plane…hmmm…

I think I'll rip, laminate, then decide what to do. I might just roll with a new toothed iron and leave the knots. It would add character (this bench will have more than enough of that, though…thanks for the help guys! I'll be asking for more shortly I'm sure…


----------



## RGtools

I just waded through 66 posts of bench building awesomness. Carry on.

*Rob* Height really does depend on what you do, if you place you hands next to your sides that the bench meets the joint between your pinky and your hand, you are unlikly to be dissatisfied long term.

*Kevin* love seeing the toolchest in the back ground and one more thing…holy shamoli, those may be the most beefy sawhorses I have ever seen.

Too much other awesome coing on in this forum to comment on all of it…so as I said before: Carry on.


----------



## theoldfart

*Ryan*, the plans came from Chris Schwarz, you should be able to find them on his LAP blog. I'll try to find the link.


----------



## RGtools

This one?


----------



## theoldfart

Yup, there is a PDF as well. Let me know if you don't find it.


----------



## Airframer

Routah? We don't need no routah! Started on the deadman groove today. After layout and outline was cut this is the result of about 10 mins worth of the Sellers mortising method…



















I might have to increase the width of the groove once it is all said and done from 1/2" to 3/4" but so far this is going pretty smoothly. Unfortunately.. now I have to get ready for work.

*kicks can across the floor…


----------



## chrisstef

^ Tee you double efff. Tuff. Ida grabbed the routah.


----------



## mochoa

Thats hard core Eric.


----------



## theoldfart

Hard core? Or hard headed? <}


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Eric, you are off the charts re: the Galoot Index with that manoeuvre. Well Done!!!


----------



## lysdexic

Are there galoot points for not even wearing shoes? SSumbich is barefoot!

What is the row of dots along the propsed mortise? Is it pre-drilled? do the holes work as a depth gauge?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm actually in the shop quite often without shoes. Wonder what it does mean? Flagrant disregard for safetly aside, of course.


----------



## donwilwol

what did you cut the line with Eric?


----------



## Airframer

HAH! I completely missed my foot in that pic lol. Yep I am most of the time barefoot in the shop. It keeps me from tracking in too much saw dust when going back inside.. plus Flagrant disregard for safety


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm thinking he chisel'd that line…


----------



## JayT

Lack of shoes + sharp mortising chisel = trouble (at least for me). I'd drop the chisel and have no time to decide whether to move my foot, let the chisel hit the concrete and be resharpening OR let the chisel impale my foot, get stiches, but not have to resharpen. Hmm, dilemmas.

Hopefully you are are not as klutzy as me, Eric, and keep everything intact and safe. The bench is looking awesome and your galoot index points are skyrocketing.


----------



## Airframer

RE: The row of Dots.. I had originally planned to drill it out first and those were where the holes would be but I decided to try out the Sellers method first and it is going so well I am just going to go that direction with it.

*Don* - I used this..










and a chisel..


----------



## donwilwol

awsome!!


----------



## chrisstef

Im pretty sure those Nrex chisels came with a side order of clenbuterol.


----------



## Airframer

Well, 15 3/4" of a 1 1/4" deep channel is where we stop for today. Would probably be done in another half hour or so if time allowed.










Now I am off to PT then work.. this was piss poor planning on my part lol..


----------



## DaddyZ

Looks good so far !!!


----------



## RGtools

*Eric.* You need a plow plane…I still you owe you a saw set and some other sharpening gear. Wanna send an address and I will throw in a plow (cost=Nothing) need to clean up my shop.


----------



## terryR

Eric, incredible work, bro! Just a marking knife, chisel, skill, and determination.

Heck, I dare any of you tough guys to walk barefoot into my shop! You'll be bleedin' before you reach the door since I chip flint outside on the porch. Shoes are NOT optional in my shop…sometimes inside the house! Ooooohhh do I catch hell when the wife finds a piece of flint in her foot!!!!!!!!


----------



## DanKrager

Jason, I'll bet there be galoot points in drilling out the knots and pounding in a tight fighting cross grain plug. That makes the knot all but disappear and you don't have cross grain or resin to sand. If you don't have a plug cutter big enough, pm me the sizes you need with where to send them and you'll get them.
DanK


----------



## donwilwol

Terry, the flint in the foot made me smile. My wife "found" a wire from the wire wheel the other day. Luckily neither one of use knew what it was


----------



## CL810

DonW - it's a smart/experienced man who knows when to play dumb!


----------



## terryR

^Yeah, "I can't really see that well enough to tell what it was" just don't cut it when terryR pulls out a shiny piece of mahogany obsidian. Busted!


----------



## carguy460

That's a pretty good idea Dan - thanks for the input! I'll let you know if I require your plug assistance!

Here is a pic of what I'm working with…










Awesome stuff going on here with everyone elses benches! I'm inspired by all this good work…until I look at my sub-par lumber, that is…then I just feel like this:










My little girl doesn't approve…


----------



## DanKrager

I wouldn't approve either! That damn thing is COLD and the blade is in my leg! LOL! Cherish the moment, it's hard to do this when they are 40 next week.
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

AF- Galoot scale is off the charts. I don't do barefoot, but I prefer to work in sandals. I'm weird, I like sawdust and shavings on my toes.

Jason- just rip em all down. Put the best edge facing up. Any knots that are too loose, big, or hard to plane….you can drill/chop out an patch. If you take your time and match grain, they are tough to see. 
My old bench is made of BORG lumber, and I didn't find the pine knots much of a problem to plane:









On my new bench, there are two rectangular patches…if you can find em;-):


----------



## lysdexic

I count 4 rectangular patches and for dovetail shaped patches :^)


----------



## chrisstef

Just south of the 2nd dog hole is one patch. I love me some Where's Waldo.


----------



## carguy460

Roger that Red! Looks like I'm out of excuses, I guess I'll just get to rippin!

How important is it that the underside of the bench top be flat? I assume I need to flatten the bottom just like the top?

For everyone wondering, the iron on that plane was backed WAY out…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Strike one Stef. That's just swirly grain;-)

Jason- bottom just has to be reasonable. Whatever you can life. with.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, I would think that where the leg shoulders meet the top should be somewhat uniform level wise. Otherwise a lot of fine tuning.


----------



## carguy460

Will it be easier for me to rip the rounded edges off the boards or to plane them down until the rounded edge is gone (talkin underside here)? I guess I've never measured how much I need to take off to get a sharp square corner…


----------



## chrisstef

Id rip one rounded edge off, flip it, rip it, rip the other rounded edge off. Too much planning involved by hand IMO.

Smack it, flip it, rub it down, ohhh no!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I respectfully submit the vast majority of the underside doesn't matter, just the edges where legs meet and (maybe) the ends where you'd like them to reveal nice and straight. Spend time on the important joinery vs. losing time on an underside no one will every see or critique.


----------



## DonBroussard

@Jason-When I built my bench, I did not flatten the bottom, and that was the wrong decision. Now, when I add an end vise, I'll have to flatten the mounting area. On my next bench, I will rip the rounded edge off before laminating the top. You already have some excellent advice on how to work around the knots, so I won't repeat.


----------



## carguy460

Solid advice guys…thanks! This is going to be a whole lotta learning for me…Lots of skills I don't possess will be needed I'm afraid. Luckily I've got yall to lean on through the process!


----------



## theoldfart

Thought so. Looking to avoid extra work on mine.


----------



## Tugboater78

Aye catchy and oldfart in a learning process myself. Reading about it and actually doing it there is a gap.. but it'll all come out in the wash


----------



## mochoa

The underside of my bench was left rough. I'm working with Pine 2×6's now and the nots are not an issue unless I'm trying to take a very agressive cut.


----------



## theoldfart

Justin, I'm finding the same thing myself. Read several books and articles, good enough for an overview. Watching and talking with these folks with their builds is filing in all the gaps. Best resource ever!


----------



## terryR

The underside of my bench still has squeeze out, except at the edgs where noticable. But, mine is slightly different…

I have the massive leg assemblies morticed into massive aprons for the bench's carcase. The top was glued down to that assembly 4 or 5 sticks at a time since I didn't think I could lift the entire top myself if glued it up all at once. (I think the top took 14 sticks to complete)

edit…maybe a photo…this was before the legs were increased to 5.25" square.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Man i am missing the show…. 167 post behind.

Congrats AF on getting her freestanding. Phenomenal galootness.

Great progress Justin, Kevin and Stef. Looking good guys.

You got this Jason.


----------



## Tugboater78

Terry I am going for a Sellers bench myself, legs will be roughly 5.5 but mine will be of oak.. going with a 1/2" divider between 2 ~12 slabs


----------



## carguy460

Good stuff, thanks for all the input guys! I'll see if I can balance this workbench build with a handplane build since Don talked me into doing one for the swap…This should be interesting…


----------



## chrisstef

You should mix in trying to learn how to sharpen saws too Jason lol. At least that's what im doin. Im f'd but not as much as the recipient of my plane!


----------



## carguy460

LOL Stef! I need to sharpen some saws actually…good thing I've got my energy drink handy in the shop, it keeps me going:


----------



## donwilwol

4 hours for the plane, 12 hours for the bench. What's the problem?


----------



## AnthonyReed

^This friggin' guy.


----------



## woodcox

Techron chased with Sterno keeps the shakes manageable.


----------



## RGtools

*Terry.* Since my earlier post was gobbled up by the internet. Would you be so kind as to share you mortising set up with me? I want to build a similar bench and to my mind, clamping stuff to the top seems to be the only flaw, but perhaps I am overcomplicating things.

Thanks,


----------



## terryR

Ryan, I'm not sure I understand your exact question. But, perhaps, my earlier misuse of 'mortise' was mis-leading.

The legs are mortised to accept the stretchers' tenons…lower and upper (upper stretcher cannot be seen). Then, the aprons have 3/4" deep stopped dadoes to accept the leg housings. Screws and glue added here. The top pieces were glued in place a handful at a time, then screwed to the leg frames from underneath.

Later, I simply glued more pine to the legs to bring them to 5.25". Then, pinned the legs/stretchers together.

Did that help any?  Sorry, but I don't have a sketchup version, or any digital plans.


----------



## Tugboater78

Question bout your aprons Terry, what is their width and it looks yours are one board. Or is it laminated? I will have to laminate to make anything wider than 8 inches due to my stock.

And btw guys I won't be able to get on here till the 31st at all so don't do too much and make me feel all incompetent.. Back to work in the morning and my "smart" phone total dumbed out this evening and I had no option but to use an old flip phone with no internet to replace it till I get back.


----------



## theoldfart

*Justin*, Safe sailing. No chance of my doing too much!


----------



## shampeon

Coming along on laminating the top. The big slab of red oak will be the center, with a strip of cherry and quarter-sawn red oak on the sides.


----------



## terryR

Justin, tha aprons are 2+ x13×60", laminated. More photos in my blogs.

Did you still have that sketch up model of the bench?


----------



## Airframer

That is one nice looking chunk of wood you have there Ian ;-) whats it measure?

Nothing gained on my bench today. After pounding out 4 big mortises and half the deadman channel this weekend we had an "arm day" at PT yesterday and my arms said no to me this morning so I took a day off. Tomorrow I will get back to it. I am very much ready for this project to just be done and move on to others I have planned.


----------



## theoldfart

Ian, I like it! What's that, about 3 1/2" or so?


----------



## donwilwol

Ian, your exceeding the workmate weight limit !!


----------



## JayT

Sweet slab, shamp! (How's that for LJ alliteration?) What are you shooting for for final benchtop dimensions?


----------



## mochoa

That is one sweet chunk of wood Ian!


----------



## shampeon

Thanks. The slab is a little more than 3". I'm shooting for a 48"x20" surface, since I don't have enough room for a longer bench right now. I'm going to add breadboards to extend the length a little.

Don: yeah, I'm making that workmate suffer. Heaven knows I suffer when it bounces all over the place….


----------



## Mosquito

yeah, I'm making that workmate suffer. Heaven knows I suffer when it bounces all over the place….
Yes.

That's going to be roughly the size of my bench, though mine has a tool well, so the working surface is only about 11.5" wide for me. It's a good, workable size for what I do


----------



## theoldfart

Found a couple on minutes for the shop so I squared off the end of a potential stretcher:









Didn't need to take off much:









Pretty good:









Learned a couple of things, first 4 3/4 saw vs 5 1/8 wood needs adjustment :









Rushing and knocked my 140 off the bench, was going to miss the rubber floor pads so caught it just before it hit the concrete.


----------



## lysdexic

Impressive work Kevin


----------



## CL810

Cool MS pic! The hand tools yelled "and for the save it's Kevin!


----------



## RGtools

I have mitre envy. I really need to get my box and saw cleaned up.

*Terry* My question was more about how you use the bench than how it's constructed. I did not want it to come off as a critique, because that is not what it was. So I will go with my more blunt version as long as you know I am just curious and not trying to find flaws in your bench. Keep in mind, I am trying to draw out a similar bench, so I am just getting design ideas:

How do you clamp stuff to the top with those giant skirts?


----------



## Airframer

I finished pounding out the deadman groove this morning.










It was initially 1/2" but that seemed a bit thin when it was all said and done so I decided to increase that to 3/4".









This part went a lot faster. Just had to chop out the corners using the same method as the first groove then just pair away the waste in between.


----------



## donwilwol

groovy!!


----------



## theoldfart

Eric,impressive


----------



## chrisstef

Wow kick save and a beaute Kevin. A falling 140 would have me clenched so darn tight.

Eric - strong work fella, very strong work.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Nice Save OF.

You are inspiring Eric. Thanks for taking the time to photograph/share your work.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice work Eric. I will probably have to do something similar soon, I think…


----------



## theoldfart

Stef, did pucker up a bit! 
got another beam for the long stretchers. show a pic later since i have questions on cleaning it up, cut off nails and so on.


----------



## theoldfart

edit, deleted 
ghost in the machine!


----------



## Airframer

Kevin - very nice MS work 

And for those of you who are into that sort of thing.. I took video of me chopping out the last 6 inches of the groove… you know.. for authenticity sake and stuff lol.


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, thou wouldeth suggest we would think staged? We are hurt!!


----------



## Airframer

Nooooooo… of course not… well maybe … nah ;-)


----------



## mochoa

nice groove there Eric!


----------



## theoldfart

How do I clean this up? Its 3 1/2 by 11 1/2 by 6 ft. and there are embedded nails
cut off w/sawzall


















End grain shot:









I'm going to lose about a 1/4 on each edge and maybe 1/8 on each face.


----------



## shampeon

A nail set and a hammer to pound them below the planing depth? And a wish?


----------



## theoldfart

Sounds like it'll work. They are going to be stretchers, just need to make sure the one with the nails is in back since the front will have a chamfer for a dead man>


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice video Eric. Someone came in my office while I was watching the very end of it. The guy heard the pounding and looked at me. I looked past him and said "who's there???"


----------



## donwilwol

*Kevin*, about the only other suggestion would be a belt sander with a 40 grit belt.


----------



## theoldfart

knock knock!! grooves there?


----------



## theoldfart

Don, I like that. I didn't want that stuff in my dust system since we use it for mulch.


----------



## RGtools

I was thinking belt sander too. The nails will wreck a plan blade and the dirt will mess up both the blade and the sole. After you are done the dirt will be gone and you will be able to see all the nails better to get them removed.

After that you can take a plane to it to get it flat and purdy.

Just my .02.

*AF* you shame me. right now I am using a router. In my defense I have a deadline. Keep it up man.


----------



## terryR

+1 to the belt sander idea and an extension cord to get ya out of the shop.

Oh, Ryan, that's a much easier question to answer. I didn't think you were questioning the construction, don't worry…I mean, Paul Sellers is responsible for the design. The big friggin aprons get it the way horribly so far IMO. 

I've added dog holes to the front apront in a deadman fashion, so that helps clamp wood to the apron. But, to clamp something to the top surface requires hold downs and surface clamps.

a more recent photo…









This was intended to be my 'learner' bench, and help me gain hand tool skills. It certainly helps when I need a shavin cravin since it doesn't budge under my 1/10th horsepower! But, lemme assure you, my next bench won't have such large aprons. 

just sayin'


----------



## DanKrager

Kevin, It's going to be a long haul even with 40 grit on a belt sander. My first thought was floor sander…they can make veneer out of this in seconds.
A carbide paint scraper will go a long ways taking shavings off like a plane, too. An old paint scraper is my favorite clean up tool.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Not sure what a carbide paint scraper looks like. Is it a handle with a flat u shaped blade?


----------



## DanKrager

The steel ones are stamped steel blades with four edges, two folded up, two folded down. Some are corrugated for more aggressive action. These edges can be quickly refreshed with a single cut mill bastard.
The carbide ones tend to be a half cylinder with two edges making it reversible. I was surprised to find carbide ones in every big box store I've been in recently. To refresh the carbide edge, you have to have a diamond plate of some sort or a green (silicone ??) stone on the grinder can work. 
DanK


----------



## AnthonyReed

Thanks Eric.

OF - Do you plan to pull those nails before cleaning? A wire brush will do a considerable amount of cleaning in regards to surface sand/grit too.


----------



## widdle

Terry..the bench in action…good stuff..full on workstation right there..sweet.

Of,,how about a plug cutter around the nails..Then pull'em …or notches and dutchmens..,eventually you'll run into them again down the road..


----------



## donwilwol

I've got one of these, it works great as long as you can find them. I also have a few old bench planes just in case I need to find a nail or 2.


----------



## widdle

That thing looks complicated… does it fit in your bags..


----------



## chrisstef

My vote OF:

Power wash it. 
Belt sander to find nail and expose them. 
Buy a $5 beater plane. Scrub around nails. 
Send nails home below planing depth. 
Use crappy knives. 
Plane slowly and have a punch handy.


----------



## DanKrager

Those old nail pullers work great! They have also caused a lot of blood blisters when I keep putting my hand in the wrong spot. You would think after the third time I would learn. Nope.

Good point about getting rid of as many nails as you can remove, however you do it.

DanK


----------



## DaddyZ

I found you can drill a 1/8" hole on about 3 or 4 sides of the nail right up next to it. then with a pair of vise grips grab nail & pull out fairly easily.

Then drill a bigger hole & pulg with a dowell or just fill smaller holes with epoxy


----------



## RGtools

Terry. That is the commentary I was looking for thanks for sharing. I will say this, that thing is an edge jointing machine though (which is the flawy of most benches.)


----------



## theoldfart

Pat, thanks. I think I am going to combine several of the above suggestions , pics tonite!


----------



## theoldfart

I'm tired. I'm going to have a beer. Pics tomorrow. Hope no one is disappointed cuz I know you've been waiting holding your collective breath to how my wood turns out!


----------



## woodcox

"You've earned it my friend"


----------



## Airframer

I put the bottle down 11 years ago but I raise my coffee mug to you sir ;-)

I just wrapped up my first week on a night schedule at work and today marks my Friday. On tap for the weekend is to turn this pile of steel and wood into a working wagon vise.










And get the endcaps and tool well sorted out. I have already rough cut the endcaps and well back to length out of 8/4 Cherry 



















First I have to locate and kill a giant black spider that escaped into the pile of shavings under the bench… I might be wearing shoes in the shop from now on lol…


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, I worked the 11 to 7 shift for 13 yrs my hats off to you. THe bench is going to be awesome!


----------



## chrisstef

Eric - your drive is off the charts man. I haven't seen a bench put together this fast in a while. I stand humbly defeated.

Where's OJM?


----------



## terryR

Eric, sign me up for the wagon vise class this weekend! I'll even stand watch for the big spider if needed. 

Awesome progress, and great inspiration! Keep up the great work…


----------



## donwilwol

yee-owww-zaaa


----------



## mochoa

Great show Eric!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Eric, amazing progress. You are a dervish!!!


----------



## DonBroussard

@Eric-I am enjoying the progress on your bench. I look forward to seeing your pile of hardware turned into a wagon vise over the weekend. Based on your work progress to date, I have no doubt that we'll be seeing the wagon vise in action by Monday. Your galoot points earnings have earned you a bunch of respect from me (and I'm sure other LJs) who appreciate the level of effort your bench construction demands. Have a great weekend and keep up the great work!


----------



## Airframer

Wow! Thanks everyone. No pressure eh? lol.

I have turned up the level of production lately mainly because I am tired of waiting on a bench to build other stuff. This has sat for too long and it's time to get 'er done!

Stef.. I haven't seen OJM in a while. He offered me a mattlet and I haven't heard a thing from him since. I hope he is doing ok.


----------



## JayT

Wow, AF, lots of galoot magnificence going on there.

I can't compete with all you've got going on, but finally got back to the bench to get some more work done.










Dog holes all drilled and eased over.










Front vise handle made from a 1in oak dowel and endcaps from scrap ash.










Edges were all eased over with the tailed router and low angle block. All that's left is the shelf and finish.


----------



## theoldfart

So went at it with the stretcher beam today Thanks to Dow W, I have one of those nail pullers:









Once the nails were out the tool of mass removal came out. Chose the Paint Eater ( the one on the right):









Now that the old paint was off time to rip:









Now to those of you who are true Galoots, you will be appalled I cheated!! Used a skill saw to rip a 2 1/2 kerf.:









Tah Dah:









More to follow some day.


----------



## theoldfart

JayT, awesome progress! Any chance you and the others could take a break for a while? Feeling out classed.


----------



## Airframer

Kevin, not cheating lol.. I've done that very same maneuver before lol. That is a mighty fine looking slab of wood!


----------



## theoldfart

Eric thanks. FYI I fell asleep before I could open that beer!


----------



## DaddyZ

Kevin - Nice wood there !!!

Barefoot in the shop ( Don't think so) - In my neck of the woods Recluses like hiding between planks(in Stacks) of wood


----------



## Airframer

Yeah, this (from the brief glance I got) looked a lot like the Black Widows I would find when stationed in Lemoore CA. Still on the lookout for that SOB btw…


----------



## shampeon

That looks…tiring, Kevin. Nice job.

Just a tip I heard about using big slabs on a bench: the top of the bench should have the crown of the growth rings at the ends. That is, they should make a rainbow/be sad. Not happy. That way if the top moves, the wood will expand in the middle of the bench and make it easier to flatten.


----------



## chrisstef

Gettin boss on it OF. Thats some fine timber there bruddah.


----------



## theoldfart

Ian, thanks. This slab will actually become the front and back stretchers, too short for the top!

Pat, recluse?


> ?


 stay away!!!!

Stef, just tryin' to keep up.

Tomorrow we rip and crosscut, stay tuned


----------



## Airframer

Well, I think I need to step away from the shop for a bit. This has just not been my weekend. After yesterday's problems I felt confident in not having a repeat of such a day unfortunately that doesn't appear to be the case.

It started out strong. I got the wagon end cap carefully laid out and started chopping the mortise for the tenon portion. That went well and before to long I had a nice looking mortise ready to go.










I then went to fit it to the end of the bench and it fits just like I wanted it to except…. upside down! PISS! I had measured on the wrong side of the lower line for the mortise…...



















I checked and I can use this ready made end cap on the other side with some finessing and now I need to redo this end.

So now to clear my head I am taking the boy to HD for his first hardware store trip. I don't need anything.. it just sounds like fun.


----------



## DanKrager

Women are BORN knowing that shopping is good therapy… just sayin'. Good call.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, hang in there, better days are coming. (at least that's what the glass half-fullers want you to think!)


----------



## theoldfart

Right arm's going to look like poppey pretty soon:









had to switch to the end vise, cutting bench not good










Note, Sawzall does not follow kerf!!!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

You crazy Galoots….;-)

A while back I posted a pic like this that seemed to inspire Stef to get going on his bench. Here's another. In case you need some 'a Red's motivation juice. 









Btw, extra dry walnut planes like butter.


----------



## theoldfart

Got the juice, thanks! Now how 'bout some LN heavy metal?


----------



## terryR

Eric, that sucks the big one…glad you have already figured a solution! Take a well deserved day off…

Nice shavings, Red. Love the reddish tone of the photo! Those look like low angle LN shavings to me!


----------



## theoldfart

Red, what's with the cabinet master under the bench top? Glue give out?


----------



## Airframer

Funny enough.. it was the Wife who suggested the retail therapy lol.

Well, I got the boy all dressed up for his first trip to a hardware store.










After letting him marvel at the sights for a bit we made our way back home. Caught a glimpse at BRK's motivational picture and got back at!

Round 2



















Annnnnd Redemption! Fits just as it should! Ready to be dovetailed.



















Nice and flush with the top 










Though now that I look at it I think I'll add a filler piece between the endcap and the front legs just to carry over the transition better before I dovetail this on. More on that later. *bog sigh of relief..


----------



## theoldfart

Glad you recovered, excellent save! Fine looking son too, makes me think of my grandson.


----------



## Buckethead

Some serious work happening in this thread. I am working on a bench myself, but thanks to you guys, I've been too self conscious to document. ;-)

I'm not ranking very highly on the galoot index, as I'm using power to do all the heavy lifting. I'm also duplicating shipwright's method of using plywood as a substrate for the benchtop. (Going to use his wedge powered leg vice as well.)

I do have some design issues I haven't yet sorted out.

1) Dogs… Square or round? Square I can make myself, but haven't devised a means of not having my dogs slip through the top when lateral pressure is released. It also precludes the use of a round, top clamping dog. ("7" shaped dogs… Not sure what they're called)

2) Wagon vice… Really have no idea what I'm going to do here. Every vice that I like is very pricey. It looks like Airframer has a decent plan. I'm going to follow along.

So today I did my first glue up for the top. I think I need more clamps… Better clamps… A better jointing technique… A less sloppy glueing technique… And …. More money.

This is the only shot I took today. I have to say, I'm really liking the look of hard maple.


----------



## theoldfart

B'head 
1 Square vs Round i'm doing round but that discussion is like asking what is the one true religion? no good answer just preference. the 7 things are called holdfasts.
2 can't help you there, I'm just going to use a straight forward bench vise.
3 The glue up looks good to me.
4 don't be self-conscious, can't learn that way. These folks have multiple lifetimes worth of knowledge ASK

Goodluck


----------



## mochoa

Kevin that computer monitor looks like its in serious danger of getting smashed with a saw there. Sweet timbers!

Eric, a momentous occasion for sure, the boy's first trip to the hardware store with dad! Sweet.

Galootness is all good until it comes to ripping big ol timbers, F that, Circular saw finished with a hand saw is what I did to.

Buckethead, here is a $30 dollar wagon vise that works great. 









Also, I vote round dogs because their easy, veritas sells tones of accessories, and you can use a hold fast in any one of them.


----------



## theoldfart

Maur, optical illusion! The saws no where near the monitor. +1 on the circular saw, rip saw then #7C.

BTW, bunkbed coming along great


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Kevin, I had planed on getting some more work in on the beds today but got side tracked. Project post to come.


----------



## Airframer

B'head.. Have a look at not only Mauricio's build for inspiration for a wagon vise but also Mos's build too. Both used very little money invested and work just like a wagon vise should. I just tend to over engineer things but follow along if you'd like. I should be getting started on that soon.

Kevin.. SERIOUS stuff going on over there.. very nice!

Got the filler piece in. Just waiting on the glue to truly cure before cutting any dovetails into it. Also made sure that all the legs still fit around everything added this weekend. I think on the other end as the filler piece I'll do a small drawer.. just for you Smitty ;-)

Bench to be at rest… for now..


----------



## shampeon

I love scrub planing. No joke.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Kev- I used the k-clamp when I was edge planing the longer boards. You can see in the pic the top peg of my deadman doesn't go high enough for 6" or less. The kind folks on this forum kept me from committing the mortal sin of drilling holes in the front edge of my benchtop.

AF- That's one adorable little tyke. Makes me miss the baby days. Wait. What am I saying?lol

Maur- I love it when you show me the underside of your bench.

Bhead- Post away brother. We're all learning here. We'll help if we can. Also like round dogs…because I can make my own with oak dowels. I hit em all the time with planes. No metal dogs for me.

Shamp- Tops coming along nicely. Just got my first scrub this past week. That bugger is kinda fun.


----------



## Airframer

Well, they aren't the prettiest but they are my first dovetails. Next time I need to do this in a less horizontal upside down position…










Just a "few" shims needed there lol..


----------



## terryR

Jeez, Eric, your FIRST dovetails on your bench!

I didn't have the cohones for that trick!  But, I've been practicing dovetails…and getting better fast! A bit of wood glue and finish, an no one will notice the small gaps. Everyone who sees your bench will be in awe of the splayed legs sticking up through the top anyway. And the wagon vise.

I think I'm experiencing wagon vise envy…


----------



## theoldfart

Red, i will remember that trick.
Eric, Terry is right cojones fersure. My first dovetails were micro dovetails.


----------



## shampeon

Eric: If you want to fix the gaps, start shaving some wedges from your offcuts and gluing them into the gaps in your condor tails. You're a brave man for doing it for the first time on a live piece, but they actually look better than my first dovetails….


----------



## donwilwol

I like your way of thinking Eric!!


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, this will sound off the wall but a couple taps with a hammer or mallet will mushroom the wood and may close the gaps a little. my .02!!


----------



## DanKrager

TOF, that gives me an idea for an avatar I haven't seen yet…WoodMasher! 
I've done that myself in "emergencies"!
DanK


----------



## Airframer

Thanks for the tips guys. The shimming will have to wait until after the vise and toolwell are finished. I'll need to remove this end a few times in the process of making those.

Full disclosure of the dovetails and yesterdays progress is now in My Blog for those who are interested.


----------



## mochoa

Red, the underside of my bench is like the underside of a car, ugly. LOL

Eric, those will look fine after some glue and wedges, it is very difficult DT'ing long pieces like that. They look much better than this one I did. lol. 
Before:









After:


----------



## theoldfart

A little more progress, long stretchers are done:









Then cut to size:









Now time to get on to the top.


----------



## CL810

Great fix Mauricio.


----------



## widdle

Mauricio..Wow…Who knew ? seamless..
Ofart, Those stretchers look massive, what are we looking at ?

On a side note..What do all y'all do when cutting dt's..One time it with your backsaws ?

bought like a pound ( 10 bucks) of mixed species of veneer on ebay, 6" x 8" +-, comes in handy..


----------



## Airframer

I used this guy.. it was a bit short of the thickness so I had to finish with my flush cut saw but it got 'er done..


----------



## theoldfart

widdle, they are 3 1/2×4 7/8×4'. The bench will be 34" high, 28" deep by 7'. The legs are 5 1/8 "square and I want the top to be 4" thick


----------



## Mosquito

Depends on what I'm cutting dovetails in. I've got a LN dovetail saw for most things, but the ones I did for my workbench aprons I used my tenon saw and cut them on my saw bench


----------



## widdle

Nice saw, dont let her eat your lead..

Ofart..sounds like a beast..nice..


----------



## widdle

Mos..My question was more on thoughts and technique and not on the emblem on the side of shoes..just yesterday i got out of the water and this mabye 12 year old kid asked me what kind of fins were in my surfboard ? I had no idea…
Anyways..Do you guys split the line and hope for the best ? stay away from the line and pare ? use a guide block or jig ? techniques


----------



## theoldfart

Widdle, as far as the line is concerned the first cut, tails or pins your choice, split the line. After transferring your cuts to the other board stay on the waste side of your line. I do mine free hand with a dovetail saw, cope out the waste, and pare if I have to. The more you do the less paring will be needed. Also look up the 140 trick, it will help transferring your lines. Hope this helps.


----------



## RPhillips

I've never done Dove Tails before, so I guess I still have some thing to look forward too.


----------



## Mosquito

Widdle, my technique is the same as Kevin's lol


----------



## theoldfart

MOS, sometimes I wish I were as good as I sound!


----------



## Airframer

*Question*... On the back wall of the toolwell.. pins or tails? I'm thinking pins to hold it together through the top expansion?


----------



## Mosquito

I did the back board as a pin board, and the front apron as a tail board.










My reasoning was to the front being tails would hold the end cap better with the wagon vise, and the pins on the back tool well piece to hold it from pushing out the back and falling off the bench for some reason


----------



## BigRedKnothead

My bench legs were technically my first dovetails. But I used some power tools. Only made 4 legs though;-)

Need your guys input on something. I'm sure some of you have noticed my dog holes are farther back from the edge of my bench than most go with (about 7"). Not gonna say it was a mistake of design…that's where I meant to put em. Maybe a lack of foresight. I don't think I realized how much I would be working with hand planes/tools. Starting to wish they were closer to the edge. With coins marking potential dog holes….How does this look? Too much like a pegboard?

















I dunno. Function over aesthetics? Even if I drill em and I hate it, I have a decent plan B….that doesn't involve a gallon of wood putty;-)


----------



## Buckethead

I'm glad you posted those tails pre-finish, Mauricio. Welcome back to the land of mortals.

Dirty laundry getting aired here. 

Seeing all those shims in those dovetails is heartening. When first I saw Mauricio's bench, I interpreted it as a flawlessly executed display of old world mastery. It still looks like that in the finish, but I don't feel so bad about my own chances, as the fixes aren't highly visible.

Now if you want to see some unorthodox methodology:

(Wrong image posted previously… Oopsie)









One clamps a glue up as one can.

This is the main section of my benchtop with three layers of oak plywood (cut offs from the bargain bin at HD) which will add some beef to my bench without burning through a mass of more costly hard maple.

I've got more maple, an 8/4" x 8" x 8' piece of walnut… And a buttload ("buttload" is an engineering term for more than 50 board feet) of Sapele (5/4 stock in 12' lengths)

I'm just trying to decide how to connect the legs. I am using shipwright's leg vice so the sliding dovetails at the front seem most desirable to me, (and begging to be walnut) as well as a really stout connection for resisting lateral stress. I decided to pare the width down to just over 24" due to space issues. Therefore, I'm installing the tool trough at the rear, rather than the center as I originally intended. This leaves me looking for an alternate connection for the rear legs.

Those angled through-tenons are attractive, functional, and a bit threatening. Maybe I'll need to join the club on that feature. They could connect to the top, just in front of the trough.


----------



## theoldfart

Nah! as long as the structural integrity of the top is not compromised. Having said that remember, I'm just building my bench so not exactly an experienced response. Also have seen many benches with double rows to match up with a chop with two dogs. I'm thinking of doing that.


----------



## DonBroussard

@BRK-The new dog hole locations look okay, but even better, they'll work better for you. I might suggest eliminating the hole on top of the leg, though.


----------



## Boatman53

On the big dovetails I used the band saw. And a router for the pins. Search "condor tails" for a really different but nice way to cut big tails if you don't mind using up some electrons.


----------



## widdle

go for it red..function..and im gonna throw out these dogs again…my next batch will be prolly 3 or four inches longer..Really nice push up or down , out of the way..









Boatman ..ive used and like the bandsaw as well, but prefer to stay a fat 32nd + from my lines in all methods.. and i slowly pare..


----------



## Boatman53

This is the front left corner of my bench.










And this is the back left corner of the bench.










I did it that way because my bench is one monolithic structure and the last piece to get glued on was the front laminate of the top. 
Jim


----------



## mochoa

Not even close to master level yet Buckethead. My other side came out much better though. It is still very tough to DT those long pieces. I had to cut them on the saw bench.


----------



## theoldfart

Jim, a pinned dovetail? It seems redundant.

Edit possibly expansion front to back?


----------



## mochoa

Widdle, I really like those dogs, pretty cool.

Jim, as always, sweet bench!


----------



## lysdexic

Red - function over aesthetics this time. The center line of my dog holes is just shy of 2 1/2" from the front edge. Even in the short time that I have used my bench there are occasions when I wish the dog holes were even closer. The one operation that comes to mind is trying to put a rabbet on a thin board.

Closer to the front edge is better IMHO.


----------



## Mosquito

TOF, I pinned a lot of dovetails on my travel plane till. 









They can still pull apart the way they went together, the pin solves that.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah Red, it kind of sucks but at least you are staggering them so you have more versatility in where you can put a hold fast.


----------



## Boatman53

TOF…. Yea a bit redundant, but it is a workbench subject to all kinds of stresses so overkill it is.
Thanks Mauricio I'm very happy with it. Yours got some real nice use this past week, I love the whale.
Jim


----------



## DanKrager

I didn't pin the tails on my workbench and they've started to work their way apart under work pressure. I'm dreaming about redoing the simple top by adding enough heft and hubris to the front rail to enclose a wagon vise. I don't have a good hand planing setup.
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well I feel a little better. My bad back is begging me for some dog holes closer to the edge of my bench. Like I said though, if I hate it, I think I have a pretty good plane to replace the board where the old dog holes are…. so a guy couldn't tell.

Kev- Not to "toot my benches horn," but I'm pretty sure I could put several rows of 3/4" dogs and not weaken it a bit. 
Maur- that's kinda what I thought about the staggering….besides aesthetics. 
Widdle- send me those dirty dogs;-)


----------



## jmartel

Hoping to get started on my nice bench build this fall/winter.

After some thinking I decided to go with a leg vise as was suggested earlier. Any recommendations either way for a wagon vise or a traditional tail vise (L shaped that wraps around the front corner rather than a twin-screw or traditional vise on the end)? Right now I was leaning towards the tail vise, but I figured I would let others chime in.

Currently the plan is for a modified Roubo style in oak or maple depending on what I can find on craigslist for cheap.


----------



## widdle

Red I will try an make a batch up and send them out…What color ?

Jmartel..The only other experience i have other than my own bench is the lie nielsens < that style seems good ..What is that type of vise called..?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Not picky at all Widdle. Just thought if you were throwin 'em out…send 'em my way. I'd like to try them. I usually have some decent stuff to barter


----------



## Airframer

Wow, I leave for work and miss a great discussion on bench dovetails lol. A LOT of great looking corners you guys have there. Hopefully by the forth one mine will start looking better lol.

I got nothing done in the shop today except to poke a starter hole for the wagon screw. Oh and ordered me up some Gramercy holdfasts


----------



## widdle

Your gonna be stoked to have holdfasts..good tool..Af….leave your lines bro…you got it..


----------



## Buckethead

Good comment AF… I have been looking for holdfasts, (although without knowing their proper name) and every whereI see overpriced, cast holdfasts. After a quick googling, gramercy holdfasts seem like a great option. I just ordered a set myself.

Cast iron seems too brittle for such a function. Many of the reviews seem to share that sentiment.


----------



## theoldfart

An update on my post #6011
When marking for the first cut use a knife and when transferring the cut to the second board use a soft pencil that won't leave a mark. Your saw will follow the knife line which is fine on the first cut but will make your second cut too wide and make a gap.


----------



## Buckethead

Lysdexic, I mean to install my tail/wagon vise in the same manner as yours (integral to the bench top).

A couple questions;

How wide is the gap for the block which is attached to the screw?

Are there any groves/dados in which the block travels? It seems like it would be far easier to install those prior to assembling the portion of the top in which the vise resides. Perhaps the block just attaches to the screw, but it seems like the sides wold be slotted to carry a tongue which would better keep the vise aligned with the table top.

TOF… I'm sure you mentioned it earlier, but is that Douglass Fir you're cutting? It's coming out amazingly well. Not sure I could manage to cut so true by hand.


----------



## theoldfart

Bucket, most of it is Doug Fir, the most recent stretchers are about 75-100 year old pine . As for the cutting the long rips are not exactly skilled cuts! I made the first rip about 2 1/4" with a skill saw then finished with a hand rip saw. The cross cuts are done by hand,


----------



## BigRedKnothead

It doesn't look too bad. I guess if I hate it….I'll just build another bench;-)


----------



## chrisstef

I dig it Red. As much as we want nice things the bench is just another tool. You just made some pro-mods to it as far as im concerned.


----------



## mochoa

I dont see anything wrong with it. Now that its done I think it looks very natural.


----------



## Airframer

Nothing could make that bench look bad Red…

I got my Wagon Vise in work today. The rainbow on top is a funny story and involves math…. we will just leave it at that.


----------



## Airframer

Smitty.. I just scored a Stanley #203 for my bench  What is the max thickness of the deadman that that will fit into?


----------



## theoldfart

I think 3/4", not sure


----------



## RPhillips

AF, what wagon vise is that? Looks nice reminds me of the BenchCrafted model.


----------



## lysdexic

Buckethead,

I used the BenchCrafted wagon vise. PM me your email address and I will send you the sketchup.

Scott


----------



## RPhillips

Honestly Red, it looks like you intended to do it like that. One set for wide boards, one set for narrow boards.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

BONDO POSE TIME….LOL Bench is 6 months old…but here ya go:


















Stef cast the gauntlet down…..Finally got enough beer in me to bust out a pic or two. If you guys laugh as hard and my wife and I did…it's worth it.

Got some benches about done around here. I better not be the only one with the sack to bust out some bondo pics;-P


----------



## Buckethead

PM sent.

I'm still struggling with design. It seems I change my mind every time I run an edge over the jointer.

What I really need to do is buy more hard maple. It's just hard to come by here, and pricey. I don't have enough to build to the level of stoutness I want. I actually took the time today to calculate how much lumber I need to make 4" x 4" x 33" legs. More than I have of either walnut or maple. I wanted to do walnut, but at $6.50 per BF (and higher) its more than I want to spend. So I have this Sapele… I got it for $5.00 per BF. Still high for a set of bench legs. A workbench should be first and foremost, utilitarian. Being beautiful is good to though. 16 BF (rough sawn) is eighty bucks at $5 per BF… I'd probably spend that on either maple or walnut, so I am seriously leaning toward that route.

I still need stretchers, a leg vice, a trough, and incidental unforeseen materials. I have enough maple for most of that. Adding walnut to this bench might be too much if I'm also using Sapele, so I will probably nix that idea. I guess you guys can tell I'm not using a plan.


----------



## Buckethead

BRK… If I post picks, I'm wearing a speedo. Thems my rules.


----------



## Airframer

*RP* That's not benchcrafted. It's Airframercrafted. I have abunch of inprocess pics that will be going in my blog once it's fully installed.


----------



## AnthonyReed

BRK - You. Rule.


----------



## Mosquito

Calendar pic right there…


----------



## lysdexic

Bucket - I used common cherry for my legs. It cost me $3 / bf. I did have a fair amount of waste though. The top, stretchers and everything else was soft maple at the same price.


----------



## lysdexic

My picture on a bench


----------



## widdle

haha..
Red..The hawkeyes could use you at defensive end…


----------



## woodcox

speaking of legs, nice BR! I think your poor workmate peed a little.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, bravo. How many beers to achieve this level of openness?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I don't know about Red, but it looks like Scotty only needed a Bud Light and two bottles of Perrier.


----------



## chrisstef

Yes Red, yes! The thinker pose is extra solid. Its also pretty fitting that you bench is like 10' long so you could get your lanky a$$ all stretched out on it. I predict it was a 4 beer evening and we aint talking miller lights. Glad you got a good giggle out of the pose, I know I have.

Buckethead - im holding you to that. Seriously. Im firm enough in my manliness to do so.


----------



## terryR

Way to pose, Red! I love it! Def a calendar shot…You know, we probably have enough calendar worthy BENCH shots to creat another calendar.

OK, the peer pressure is on now…I gotta clean my shop so I can pose on the pine beater…


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## BigRedKnothead

Ohh there were a few Sam Adams….and some Templeton Rye involved. Evidently I'm fairly secure in my manhood. I don't get too many people calling me a wuss….not to my face anyway;-)

A few guys probably haven't been here long enough to remember the blue-haired girl and bondo's pose. A collaboration may be in order one day.


----------



## theoldfart

Red and Blue and white, patriotic. Watch the salute!


----------



## donwilwol

I remember the blue-haired girl but somehow missed the bondo's pose. We need a repost!

No need to repost Red's photos. I'm still trying to clear the images from my mind.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Haha….never had a problem have a chuckle at my own expense Don. Good fun.

Red, white, and blue….now that's clever.

Post it up *bondo*. Unless someone has the patience to look back a few months.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, you're a good man.


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## mochoa

Awe yeah Red! Sexy shots man! LOL

Stef, I was thinking the same thing. I'm not sure if my lanky aas would fit on my bench.

So who is going to be brave enough to bust a Blue Girl pose?

Bondo pose:


----------



## donwilwol

you guys may need better ventilation. It seem the hallucinogens may be having some adverse effects. The say some sawdust will do that.


----------



## theoldfart

Bondo, not a lot of skin there!


----------



## Mosquito

I could pose, but it's shorts weather for me, so I'm not sure anyone really wants to see that ;-)


----------



## CL810

Red - way to go big time! No shrinking violet there!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yes CL, there's been a regression of loveliness on this forum

Mos…..wuss. (officially called out)

Btw, thanks for the feedback on my dog holes fellas. I should've done that sooner.


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## BigRedKnothead

Obviously I'm totally joking there Mos. Only a small amount peer pressure insinuated;-)


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## chrisstef

No your not Red ….

Sport those hairy milk straws Mos you Sally.


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## AnthonyReed

Stef loves the beefcake, Mos. Just sayin'.


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## Mosquito

lol peer pressure never works on me anyway


----------



## chrisstef

More like the beef steak Tony….


----------



## RPhillips

@ Red… OH, God no…. lol

Leave Roubo girl out of this….


----------



## WhoMe

Ok, that is just too funny. Good thing BRK is posting the "G" rated shot.

I bet there is a shirtless one on the ol digital camera that is competition for the fireman calendars…lol 
You know, for the wifey only…


----------



## skypony

Awesome design and construction!!!


----------



## pjped

Red,

Your dog/holfast hole layout looks better than mine!























































And I wimped out after 4 holes using the brace - hey I have an office job!


----------



## theoldfart

Pete, all that stuff to make a bird house? !!
Can't imagine what it took to make the bench. :{


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## pjped

Kevin,

I did not make the birdhouse - just fixing it for a friend… someone used interior ply for the sides!

All what stuff??? 

-Pete


----------



## ProfPenguin

Blue haired girl is hot… Just sayin'... She's like a woodworker's pin-up girl. But I digress.

I would just like to say wow… You have all made some absolutely gorgeous benches. After going through the last 3k posts in this thread, I have seen some amazing work and realized again why this is one of the best communities on the internet.

Pardon me if this has been brought up already but has anyone tried combining a traditional Roubo style bench with the Fine Woodworking "New Fangled Workbench"?(http://www.finewoodworking.com/workshop/video/new-fangled-workbench-revisited.aspx)

In particular, I love the modularity of using pipe-clamps for hardware combined with the stout construction of a traditional bench. I have a vision for a system with two permanent pipes in the top slab and two floating 2' pipes that can be moved around to use as a face vice, leg vise, or vertically as holdfasts. Each vise could have interchangeable faces that could allow them to be used like a tail vise, wagon vise, L-shaped, etc.

It will certainly not be half as pretty as some of the benches posted here but I am more for utility than aesthetics anyway. Let me know what you guys think of the idea and I'll try to get some sketches up. Thanks!


----------



## Buckethead

I like that "new-fangled workbench". Sadly, I'm already committed as I've cut and/or glued my entire top.

As I was researching vises, and their respective pricing, I thought to myself, "I could do something with pipe clamps".

Somebody beat me to the punch. Admittedly, building my bench is also a means of practicing various types of joinery, as well as utilizing aesthetics for feeling a sense of beauty as I work. Some may find that silly, and it might be, but I find sense in it.

Similarly, I find a lot of value in the NFWB. Perhaps another bench will be in order. A beater and a showpiece. Given my current space issues my showpiece will need to do double duty as a beater for now. They look better after a few decades anyway. Especially if they are well enough built to hold up.


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## terryR

Yeah, that new fangled bench is sorta ugly, IMO. But, then again, so is the tailgate of my pickup. But, I bet both places have seen a ton of work!  That bench looks so versatile, I'd love a version of it in my shop. Maybe just beefed up legs, and a slightly thicker top would do it for me.

+1 to wanting a beater and a looker BOTH in the long run…

Stef, get ready for some skinny white boy legs when I pose! I'm only 5'10" and pushing 165 pounds…Big Red could probably stomp me with one foot! LOL. IF I can decide which t-shirt to wear, I'll be 'a posing tomorrow…


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## CL810

just fixing it for a friend….

ya, ya, ya,.... Heard that before! ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, I'm 5'1" and 157 so don't feel bad. No way in hell would anyone want to see me posing, so we'll just show the bench when its done.
Now on to business. I have a piece of clear hard maple 8/4×7 1/2" x 33". Big enough for a vise chop? I'm ordering a screw from http://www.bigwoodvise.com/classic.html so want to be sure it'll hold up.
The bench will be 33.5 to 34" high.
Opinions?


----------



## chrisstef

Kevin dont quote me on this but have you researched the seller. I read somethin sonewhere bout a less than stellar retailer of vices but i cant remember for the life of me the name. It wasnt any of the big boys i do remember that.

Edit : quick search did NOT result in any poor reviews. Sorry for any confusion. Carry on.


----------



## terryR

Kevin, no expert here, but my chop WAS 8/4 maple. I laminated 3/4" of red oak on the outside to beef if up just a little. Oh yeah, 8" wide at top…


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, I know it's only 3/4" but no problem loosing clamping space? Also I did not ask this above but what kind of screw? Vise screw that is!

Edit I have a nice slab of 6/4 Ipe', might just make a good laminate>


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## JayT

Stef, you might have been thinking of this recent thread.


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## BigRedKnothead

Pete Pedisich- I dunno. Your bench looks pretty sweet to me. Thanks for sharing. Gotta get that bench posted with a "smackdown" tag. 
I need to make some more planing stops and other devices like you have.

I will say, my end vise is not quick release. So, as Mauricio noted, the staggered dog hole have me crankin on my vise less.

TerryR- atta boy. Although "staging" my bondo pic consisted of setting my beer down and scooting the bench to and angle because the wall was too close. I could've at least cleared the crap off the bottom shelf;-). Naa. Keepin it real.


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## widdle

How dows that work reddog..Do you ask the wife to take a few snaps ? Or do you lock the door and set up some type of camera with a timer ? And make little tap tap sounds soo everyone thinks your workin ?


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## BigRedKnothead

Oh the wifey took em. I showed her the blue girl and bondo's pic back when. She thought it was funny stuff.


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## woodcox

whew, "a beater and a looker", both still tolerable in certain sects here in the salt city
+ 1 to a P P post up. I wanna know whats under your top, center section in particular. A wicked lamination or something else? Nice bench you have there. 
At 5 1/12' TOF, if 33 1/2 is comfy and keeps you upright, prolly ok. Are you primarily a handtooler?
I'm with you, as terryR has thirty stones on me<-><

,


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## Airframer

Not much gettin' done on the bench this week so far. Have had a week of 15 hour days at work so far with 2 more to go. I have squeezed in a few minutes here and there to slowly plug away at the wagon vise. I am to the point now where I have to flip the bench again…. that is becoming less and less fun as it grows up lol.

This weekend is shaping up to be much more productive than last weekend I hope so fingers crossed.

My big advancements on the bench so far this week is getting some holdfasts on order and winning this Stanley #203 on fleabay  Somehow I beat the snipers on it and walked away with it for $34 + $6 shipping. Hopefully that wasn't a bad price but I rarely see these up for auction.


----------



## theoldfart

Typo on my post # 6091 s/h/b 5' 11"


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice, Eric! You'll enjoy the #203, it's worth that.


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## terryR

Kevim yeah, I lost some clamping space as you mentioned, but that was OK with me. I used the Veritas tail vise screw (item no. 70G01.52) for the leg vise since it was affordable. Honestly, my bench legs are so thick (5.25"), that using the 2.75" thick chop reduces the leg vise opening to a max of only 8"! However, that's sooooo much better than any vise in my shop, I've been very pleased with it. We'll see how happy I am in a year or so…

Red, I talked myself out of cleaning my shop for the photo! If you guys can handle my ugly, bearded face, you won't have a problem with the stuff in the background. In fact, sometimes I enjoy checking out the background stuff in other woodworker's shops…the typical Folgers cans, cat litter buckets, fans held in place with bungee cords, cut offs overflowing whatever size container you please, etc.

Eric, nice score on the 203 for $40!

Has anyone tried the Veritas surface clamp which is similar? only $75, cough, cough, jeez, they have some expensive gadgets!  But, I gave up trying to win a vintage clamp on fleaBay…


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## BigRedKnothead

Thanks for the correction on the height Kev. I was chuckling that you were as short as my wife. I've got about 18" and 130lbs on her….lol.


----------



## bondogaposis

Bondo, not a lot of skin there!

OF - Yeah, well it was March in Montana and I hadn't had any beers in me.

BRK - Nice pose on a really awesome bench. You done me proud.


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## widdle

O fart..Your 5' 1"..go with it…


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## widdle

Airframer..How does that work ?


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## Airframer

*Widdle* - kinda like this..










Got back at it today.. am really starting to like the Brace and Bit..



















And here's one for the laydahs ;-) ....


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## chrisstef

Eric has just made up for all the nonskin showing from Bondo on the top of his head alone. If Lysdexic starts following you around the internet like a lost puppy you know why Eric. Scotty like.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Barefoot, too…


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## chrisstef

Yup, lots of strength and manhood being flaunted by Eric there. I can understand the no shoes on the bench though, its the classy thing to do really. Unless youre Roubo chic and rocking some Jimmy Choo's.


----------



## Buckethead

Your brace is ENORMOUS!


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## terryR

Nice shot, Eric…with the speed at which you work, I had you pegged for a younger man than me. But, judging from the top of your head, I was mistaken. LOL. That really seems to be the drilling position of chioce after the first few get ya sweatin'

No brace in my shop yet…here's my boring friend…









So Sorry for the lack of a Bondo pose from last night…nasty thunderstorms kept us inside the house…then the power went out…2nd night in a row. bummer. Will try again tonight! Gotta get the shot in the next 2 days before the honeydew trip to Boston for my in laws 50th anniversary. Yuck! Been to Boston once…that was enough for me.


----------



## donwilwol

Terry, if you're looking for a brace, let me know. I've got dozens I need to do somehting with. You'll need to dig up your own bits though.


----------



## chrisstef

Terry - I can school ya on some n'enland speak to make ya feel a little more at home. Bahhhston Hahhbah - where they dumped the tea. Fenwaay Pahk - where the sawk play. Id suggest taking a little walking trip if the weather isn't too bad of the freedom trail. There's some really awesome old architecture in that city.


----------



## Buckethead

Phallic thing going on here. Sorry about this, ladies.

Terry, I'm about to get to the boring stage…. No pun intended.

I have a set of paddle bits, as well as Irwin speed bore bits. I tried to bore a piece of hard maple with the speed bore bits and it was an utter failure. I think they cut too aggressively, and should be relegated to rough framing applications.

I am guessing I need to use forstner bits, but have little experience with them. Your setup looks more than adequate. Is that a bit plus an extension, or just a bit with a long, stout shank? Where did you purchase?

Go swoks.


----------



## terryR

Don, thanks for the offer…but I'm intimidated over buying a set of vintage bits…remember something Andy posted once about how easy they are to ruin if a Bubba tries to sharpen them. So, I'll have to read and probably will buy a set of bits and brace together. Maybe even new? $$$

Yhanks, Stef, I tried to spell Boston the way you did, but can't manage it. My first visit there…waitress asked, "What can I get yuz to drink?" I had to stop and process that into southern for a few moments. "What ya'll havin to drink?" And those freekin roundabouts while driving…holy $hit…it's crazy, man…

Bucket head, that's just a 6" extension for forstner bits. I had to have it for the lathe…but it sure likes deep mortises, too! 

Edit…bit extension from Woodcraft…


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## terryR

Buckethead, before ya spend a lot of money, I'm not sure you want forstner bits anyway. They aren't good at clearing debris, so are not ideal for deep holes. I simply drilled down 3/4" then yanked the drill bit out of the hole to help debris come out.

Those single flute auger bits are probably what you want if you are going to buy, and they are cheaper. I just used what I had in the shop.


----------



## Mosquito

I used a spade bit for mine, since I had one, and it was the only bit I had long enough to get through my bench top. I did the same, had to pull it up to help clear chips, but it worked out ok. I also waxed the edges periodically as well. That sucker got quite hot after drilling a dog hole


----------



## theoldfart

*Don W* , any 14' braces?

*Bucket*, you want either Russell Jennings or old Irwin pattern auger bits with a fine thread at the point see if you can find NOS.

*Terry,* Round a 'bout: definition of the Mass political process! I live in the western part, more civilized, less expensive and no where near the traffic.


----------



## theoldfart

I seem to have had a post disappear in the ozone so I may be repeating myself.

*Don W*, have any spare 14" braces?

**Terry*/Bucket*, try Russell Jennings or older Irwin pattern auger bits, lots of NOS out there.:









Got four bits for 4 bits/ea

Sorry for the echo


----------



## chrisstef

Just don't ask for sweet tea Terry. My cousin and her husband were up from Virginia and he asked the waitress for some sweet tea. Comedy ensued. No one had a clue what he was talkin about. She came back with unsweetened iced tea and a handful of sugar packets. Driving must be a totally different experience as well. Just got into it with the mind frame that you have to do everything as fast as you physically can then you'll fit right in. This includes driving, talking, and going to the bathroom.

Them auger bits are easy to refurb Terry don't be so scared. As quickly as you mess em up they can be fixed. Like Yoda said, plenty of NOS out there too. Irwins and Jennings. A very fun and gratifying experience using a brace and bit IMO.


----------



## terryR

Kevin, thanks for explaining the use of roundabouts…LOL. I cannot imagine trying to get my 20 foot long diesel truck in, around, and out of those things! 

Hey, I didn't mean to come down on Boston so badly. I know it's a great city with tons of history! I'm just a country boy who prefers the quiet mountain lifestyle. Even spent 1/3 of my life in downtown Atlanta. Lived on Peachtree St. next to the Fox playhouse…

But, I belong in the mountains.


----------



## theoldfart

Hey *Stef* your source have auger files?


----------



## terryR

Stef, LOL, I asked for sweet tea on my first visit…never again!


----------



## theoldfart

W. Mass is hilly just not mountains> Mt Greylock is the highest thing we have, great bike ride:


----------



## donwilwol

have any spare 14" braces?

I'll check…....
.
.
.

have any spare 14" braces?

I'll check…....


----------



## chrisstef

Kevin - auger bit files are fairly easy to come by on the web. I picked mine up at amazon for around 8 clams.


----------



## theoldfart

Stef, thanks. Do you know if they have the same QC problem as the saw files?


----------



## Airframer

Yeah I have about 4 different sized braces and they all came with a few bits of different sizes. All of them were pretty cheap on ebay and so far not much has been needed to get the brace OR bit into working order.

I hadn't thought to check Amazon for new bits.. didn't know they were still made?

*Terry* - Mid 30's.. the top of my head just says otherwise lol…

Oh and yep… found the spider so the shoes are optional again


----------



## chrisstef

That I couldn't tell ya there Kevin. In reality youre only taking a few swipes with an auger bit file to freshen up the edge so there's not a ton of wear and tear on an auger bit file. Ive refreshed the edge on around a dozen auger bits without any noticeable difference in the cutting ability of the file.


----------



## theoldfart

Stef thanks


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, here is a how to on sharpening auger bits:
http://www.fine-tools.com/G-augerbitfile.html

If you buy bits the left one is for soft woods and the right is for hardwoods. Finer thread is for hardwood:









hope this helps


----------



## merrill77

ProfPenguin: My bench is somewhat inspired by the New-Fangled Workbench. At least, that's where I started. After reading the first few chapters of Schwartz's workbench books and playing around in Sketchup, I ended up with a design that uses pipe clamps for wagon, tail, face and leg vices, as well as the planing beam (which was taken nearly exactly from the NFWB). The design seems a bit absurd at times, even to me. And it certainly isn't pretty…which is probably why I haven't posted pics of it before. But after using it for the past 8 months, I'm real pleased - it's solid as a rock and can hold a workpiece in every orientation I've needed so far-flexible workholding was my #1 goal. I'm not done with it yet (I'm currently building a tool cabinet under it) but here are some pics as it stands today.

Ohh…and the holdfasts work just fine in square holes. The square holes are very easy to make during glue-up with a dado blade on the TS - it probably took me about as much time for all 45 holes in my bench as drilling two holes by hand with an auger bit. Zero galoot points, though.



















Here's the planing beam in use:










The leg vice uses two pipe clamps, opens >14" and can be easily removed when it gets in the way:










The face vice can be moved to several locations on either side of the bench and can have as much as 39" between the pipes using a larger board:










The end vice was built purely to satisfy the urge…I don't think it'll get much use, but it works well.










Each of the three wagon vices work like this:










All of these vices hold very well and the flexibility is fantastic. I have a bit of my build process documented over on NCWW.


----------



## widdle

very nice merrill..
do you guys know how or if its possible to re thread beat up auger bits ?


----------



## theoldfart

No idea, sounds daunting.


----------



## AnthonyReed

*Widdle* - Andy (Brit) might be your guy to ask about that. Before he was the saw guru he laid it down about braces & bits. His sharpening blog is here. Although I do not see mention of re-threading the lead screw.


----------



## lysdexic

Chris,

You may not think that your bench is beautiful but it certainly is angular, innovative and cool as hell.

Scott


----------



## mochoa

Merrill that bench is bas aas!


----------



## RPhillips

Nice looking Bench Merrill


----------



## BillWyko

That's a real beauty, lots of excellent ideas implemented. Trying to finish mine today.


----------



## BillWyko

A couple little tricks I decided to put to use, I did a groove to drop in a T track on the underside of my skirt. This will allow me to make just about any kind of rest I want w/o having to drill ugly holes through the Bubinga face. I also did Teflon feet. It worked out perfectly, the bench is heavy enough to stay put but with a little help, we can slide the bench out of the way if necessary.


----------



## CL810

Here in the Midwest we drink iced tea year round. I was in Boston one February and asked for ice tea at lunch. The waitress said she be right back with a straight jacket for me.


----------



## Buckethead

Wow, Merrill! Your iteration of the NFWB is AWESOME! I want one.

HM, if I ever put together a single piece of furniture as lovely as your bench, I can die happy.

Auger bits…. I have a few I used for a couple dock builds I did. They are Irwin, but I don't believe they are old thread types. In fact I'm quite certain they are for softwood. I bought them at big orange. Boring through pilings they did drift a bit, but I think I'll have a go at some scrap maple to see how they do.


----------



## ProfPenguin

merrill77: Wow! That is exactly what I am talking about! Thanks!

That design is 100% functional, versatile, and affordable. I would love to check out the sketchup model if you wouldn't mind sharing. There are a lot of details in that bench and it looks like you nailed all of them. I like that you're putting a cabinet in it for some extra storage.

Again, great bench!


----------



## lysdexic

HumidorMinister,

Can you point me toward more pictures of your bench?


----------



## lysdexic




----------



## chrisstef

"Dont try that $hit on strong acid man …." ^


----------



## Mosquito

Current state of the bench… I have no idea how I would have done this on the workmate lol


----------



## DanKrager

You probably could have done it, but the walk home would be a long one. Those things move around a lot until you hang about 200 lbs. of anchor under it. 
Nice job Mos. I did some smaller pieces today for some scroll work, and it was fun to plane them by hand!
Plane fun.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

*Mos* Didn't you build the bench on a workmate?


----------



## Mosquito

In part, yes lol Combination of workmate, folding table, sitting bench, and I think I even did some planing with parts on the floor as well…


----------



## merrill77

ProfPenguin - Sure! Send me your email via a message and I'll send you the SketchUp file.


----------



## RPhillips

I need a little advice here, I'm able to get my hands on some 8"x8"x8' lumber for free. This was used to elevate a piece of equipment off the ground prior to its instsllation here at my work. I see about 3 or 4 pieces that look pretty clean, although they all have some splits and cracks.

I'm thinking about using it for the base and then getting some Ash or Hard Maple for the top. Any reason I should steer clear of doing this? Not sure of the species yet, hoping to get some picks in the daylight and seeing if some one can help me on that one too.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Rob, no reason out-of-hand to say no… Get it and you'll know, I'd say.


----------



## shampeon

Rob: if you've got a way of cutting it, go for it. Just know that 8"x8" means you can't use most 14" bandsaws to cut it. So, hand saws, big boy saws, or bust.


----------



## lysdexic

Rob - another consideration is the dirt. I, personally, would not want that lumber touching my jointer or planer with any hint of dirt.

Yet, plane it with a jack first to remove the outer surface and you should be go to go for the machines. If, that is your plan.


----------



## RPhillips

Thanks guys, i just loaded it into my truck. best i can tell is that its Oak and heavy as all hell. I don't own any of those fancy power tools that you speak of…lol

All I'll be using is the super dull Diston rip saw my Dad gave me and my recently acquired Jack plane. Guess ill be sharpening up that old hand saw after all.  this should be an interesting project…


----------



## mochoa

You need a hewing axe! Or cross cut kerfs to depth and then split of big chunks with a big chisel and a mallet.


----------



## BillWyko

Lysdexic, I'll take more pics tomorrow. There are pics farther back in this thread. Somewhere this side of the 100th page. LOL I'm building dowel compartments at either side of the tool tray with a taper to make cleaning dust easier. That's just about all I have left to do to be complete. Now I want to sell it and build another one. I don't have room for 2 & I really want to do this again. This build was a blast. Here's a pic from a few weeks ago before the stretchers. BTW, hate to admit it but mine was built on 2×4 saw horses & a plastic fold up table. Necessity is the invention of a mother…..or something like that.


----------



## chrisstef

Rob - If you need a file for that big ole rip saw let me know. Ive got a few . But what id do first is run a circular saw down the middle on either side before I even gave the handsaw a peek at that oak dunnage.

HM - that bench gives me morning smiles. Your end vice looks like it could squeeze the last nickel out of a lawyer.


----------



## Buckethead

"Your end vice looks like it could squeeze the last nickel out of a lawyer."

I lol'd.


----------



## terryR

Now I want to sell it and build another one

Pick me! Pick me!  Yeah, as if I could afford even the SHIPPING on that lovely bench, HM…

But, I know what you mean about The Build being great fun!!!

WARNING:
Bondo pose coming…
WARNING.


----------



## theoldfart

*Rob*, +1 on what Stef said:









*HM*, wow absolutely more pics!

*Stef* +1 on lawyers, just don't pick on accountants!

*TR* , skin?


----------



## terryR

Skin? Nah, you guys don't wanna see skin…I'm pretty sure! LOL

But, here's my ugly mug on the finished pine beater. I decided to get all dressed up…this is formal attire in Alabama. 










From 20 years of caving exploration, it's STILL habit for me to hold my breath when being photographed, even above ground! (See, underground, your breath just fogs the photo, so you learn to just hold your breath) Old habits are the hardest to break! 

Also, as requested in the pose, is DonB's marking gauge…love it! And Boatman's mallet from the swap last year, use that guy all the time!

Ya'll think I bored enough holes in the front apron, or what?


----------



## DonBroussard

Dat's what I'm talking about, terryR!


----------



## Mosquito

lol very nice Terry


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's too easy, but I'll say it: Terry, there's a target on your back…



Great bench, the pose is a classic!


----------



## mochoa

Great pose Terry! I'd say the bench matches your mountain man style quite nicely. ;-)


----------



## Buckethead

Another brave soul! Well done Terry!


----------



## theoldfart

OK enough skin! Climbing underground? Rather be tied off 1,000, off the deck on a shear ice face than climb there!
BTW beater? don' wanna see the good one, would feel inadequate.


----------



## terryR

Kevin, the deepest drop I've rapelled underground was 586'...in a waterfall (in GA). All I could see was 20' of rope and mist below me and 20' of rope above me the entire descent and climb. Not too scary. However, I've also rapelled and climbed open drops in the Black Canyons out west of nearly 1600'. Too scary for me! Put my narrow a$$ back in a cave where I can't see the bottom of the drop!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Great stuff Terry. Handsome bench. The bondo poses are silly, but it's cool to match a faces with some of the names.


----------



## theoldfart

Black Canyon! Big time, I just play in the Northeast and the Gaspe'.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Red.

I agree, the poses are kinda silly. But I can see at least 2 major benefits… As you mentioned, it's nice to put a name and a face together. I'm certainly NOT trying to pick up any of you boys…I'm 48 and happily married. But, I like to see the faces of the regulars. You guys, whether you like it or not, are my extended family! 

Plus, it's very humbling to lie down on your bench while being photographed. Sorta galootish in a manner. Shows the down right human side of each of us…no matter how great your dovetails are.  I think the Bondo pose, and our tool swaps bring us closer together as brothers.

...except for those of you that still insist on crocs…


----------



## chrisstef

Terry - props on the bondo pose. Its becoming lore now. And +1 to Red's comment about face to name. I had Terry pegged as something/someone totally different lol.


----------



## mochoa

"...except for those of you that still insist on crocs…" LOL


----------



## widdle

Terryr…That looks like a great bench…Im feeling a little more confident in my search for the barn made of walnut…


----------



## Airframer

Laugh it up Maur but we still don't have a Bondo pic from you and your bench has been finished a while now ;-)


----------



## mochoa

I need to fix a little snafu I did the other day first. Hurts too much to talk about it….. I cut into my bench with a circular saw…. All the way across…..


----------



## Airframer

Well that sucks… I have a bunch of long thin red oak strips if you need any patch material. Let me know!


----------



## chrisstef

ohhh no Maur … that hurts me ….


----------



## widdle

What ? How deep..


----------



## mochoa

I blame power tools, plywood, and beer… No beer is ok, it's the first two that are the issue.


----------



## terryR

Ooohhh, Mauricio, please say you're joking. 

Edit…I see you are not joking. What a scar.


----------



## Airframer

Seriously.. if you need a piece to patch that with it's yours I have PLENTY just let me know!


----------



## widdle

Someone say something…


----------



## TerryDowning

Patch with a contrasting material and called it a string inlay!!


----------



## widdle

Minor…fixable…


----------



## theoldfart

Oh $h1T!! My sympathies. Now I don't wanna beer!


----------



## mochoa

Even my wife was horrified when she saw it.

Thanks Eric, I have more than enough red oak but this stuff isn't the same color as your typical red oak.

I'm determined to pull out all my artistic ability on this one. I vow to make that crap invisible.

I've been playing with this trick here http://lumberjocks.com/topics/22670. I need to find a fine brush to paint the grain lines back in. lol.


----------



## widdle

Did the wife give you a hug and say honey at least your ok ..


----------



## mochoa

No hug but she did say, "well at least you have all your fingers".

I lined up the first cut, made sure it was hanging over the bench, check, made the cut, measured for the next cut but didn't check again that the cut line was off the bench…


----------



## DaddyZ

Mauricio ^ Sorry Man But

That is so Funny - sad but Funny !!!!!

Who among us hasn't made a mistake like that ???

Wait till you see the Booboo's I made on my toolchest (Not one but two)

Pics Coming Next Week


----------



## BigRedKnothead

ohhh….it hurts buddy. Just plane the whole top down 1/4". Five minute job;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

*Sniff, Sniff*

Hmmm… this isn't oak plywood, but sure smells like it…

Oh, CR*P….

Maur, that sucks. I agree to a crusade all over this repair. It must be done.


----------



## chrisstef

Ill offer up an e-hug to ya Maur if it'll make ya feel any better.


----------



## theoldfart

*Maur*,make several more cuts randomly. As Terry suggests use contrasting stringing and call it Mid Century Modern. The value will triple and you can buy more stock for a new one. Make sure you build the new one on the old one before you deliver the old one.
Joking aside I'm sure you'll come up with a simple and elegant solution.


----------



## terryR

Maur, good luck making that invisible, buddy. If you are serious, I have some tiny felt tip brushes that could help. Used for painting dye on gourds…very tiny. Just ask and they are in the mail…


----------



## chrisstef

I painted my gourds once …. nevermind.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah, was trying to think of how to turn it into a planning stop or something. lol.

Or veneering the whole top.

Nah, I'm going fill it and carefully color match it. I think it won't be noticeable when done.

Thanks for the support guys.


----------



## theoldfart

Would make a great blog OR new thread Epic Recoveries!


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Terry! My sister-in-law flunked out of art shool, I think she has some brushes that might work at my house. Let me check and I'll let you know. Do you have a picture of what I should be looking for? What I should use?


----------



## terryR

Here's the best image I can find of the lil brushes I have, about 3" long…










Wish I could tell ya what to use. I've experimented with holes and whatnot, but nothing as severe as you are about to undertake. Lately, I've used Elmer's Fiberglass resin mixed with any color oil paint you want to fill stuff. But, your cut crosses so many grain lines…gonna be tough.

Maybe black or brown dye to paint in the missing lines?


----------



## chrisstef

Try Quikwood Maur. I think they make an oak color. Should take a tint too.


----------



## Mosquito

ouch… Won't lie, I had to chuckle a little when I read it, but ouch none the less…

I was thinking since it's already angled, it's time to put inlay initials into the bench top


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Terry, I'll look and see if I have one.

Mos, I understand man, you have to laugh to keep from crying.


----------



## Buckethead

Condolences on the cut… At least it was straight! It speaks highly of your cutting ability even if giving you a D- for depth setting.


----------



## Buckethead

"Someone say something…"

Widdle's post is a great one!

Man… My beeper was blowin' up from all the comments in this thread. I wondered what was going down. Reading through, I see the progression… Taunting, the usual "aw shucks" and bench praise… Then….... The horror….

The disbelief… The regret… And widdle bringing the room back to life! Well done sir!

So…. That sucks… But life is for the living, and benches are better scarred. Tried and true. Wear it proudly.

Fill it with a piece of contrasting wood and call it art. My bench is going to have racing stripes.

It's going to be such lovely wood, I'm going to laminate some HPL on top to protect it. ;-)

My legs will have a 2" walnut center wrapped in 1" hard maple that I salvaged from a retail remodel.


----------



## theoldfart

*Maur* a quote from 482 days ago:
"I know what you mean, right now I can just screw a planning stop down to my MDF bench and think nothing of it. There is a freedom in that…" 
Ah freedom..

Addendum Just spent two days in 95 degrees cleaning up a (read my) screwed up finish job on my windows. Your not alone!


----------



## RGtools

*Mauricio.* I feel your pain. My bench has a major foul up in the stretcher when I was routing an area for my sliding deadman. Still have not fixed it. It looks like crap but it is VERY handy for resting a board on end while laying out lines on the end grain…odd how sometimes accidents can teach us things.

You learned:

To recheck the saw path
And will learn how to hid big woopsies.

My best to you.


----------



## donwilwol

Maur, I see 2 ebony inlays, one on each end of the bench.

I've done it, just not on my bench yet.


----------



## Airframer

I have every bit of confidence in your ability to hide that mark.. or you could leave it as a reminder to pay attention lol. Funny thing is that guitar manufactures charge extra for purposeful scars on their guitars.. it's called "relicing" so hey… you have a "relic'd" bench and just increased the value of it by 75% 

In other news.. got busy burning metal today. One wagon track down one more to go..


----------



## donwilwol

Let's just say there may be an un-planned (although I may have planned it) inlay in a recent plane build from a miss calculation. It actually looks better, and luckily has no structural effect what so ever.


----------



## mochoa

Old Fart, I know I've worked on an OSB bench and you dont have to worry about it. I dont mind gouges from hand tools, but this thing is distracting, and when you spent so long bulding your bench you dont want an F up to be the main focus of conversation.

Bucket thats a pretty good description of how it went down. lol. And, that was a free hand cut that I was pretty proud of until I reallized it went into my bench. lol

Don, are you saying you have cut into your bench before? And you made a similar mistake on a wooden plane? That might actually look pretty sharp on a plane.

Ryan&Don, you give me an idea, I can put an ebony inlay in it and call it my favorite dovetail agle! Would make setting the bevle gauge very easy. lol.

Eric, thanks for the conficence.


----------



## terryR

Ohhhh, I didn't think realize the skill saw was so popular for inlays. Rip blade or combination?

Maur, I'm voting for a wooden inlay, too. walnut, cherry, doesn't matter. You have a 'conversation scar' now…


----------



## mochoa

Buckethead, that bench is looking great! You have the same table saw I have. So you know my pain and why I cut sheet goods on the bench. Lol.

Eric, that's some slick looking wagon vise hardware!


----------



## donwilwol

Maur, not my new bench, after a few times I have learned. I have cut into my bench before. I've cut my power cord to. I once dropped a brand new dewalt 8 1/4" contractor grade saw off a 2 story build the same day I bought it.

And lets see, I've cut into my tailgate, my porch, and I don't want to count the number of times I've set a saw down and the guard had stuck open. Try to add an inlay to a tailgate


----------



## bondogaposis

Oh man, Maur, that's like running your kid over w/ a lawn mower. Sorry for your loss.

Terry, nice to see the pose on a great bench. I believe it was you that started the mallet swap if memory serves me and it is great to put a face to your name.


----------



## RPhillips

Here's the first 2 of 4…


----------



## Buckethead

Nice stock, RP…

I'd let the checks and cracks stay. Those timbers look awesome already.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Rob, that's some serious stuff!


----------



## theoldfart

Rob, what are you going to cut them down to?


----------



## RPhillips

Thinking 5" or 6", then using the remander for the stretchers.

*not sure why my pic posted sideways…I'll blame Apple for that one.


----------



## DanKrager

Maur, In my shop I would still have the cut off ends lying around somewhere. If you happen to have one, well, you can take it from there…a near perfect cross grain match. 
I cringed when I saw that, too. And my first thought was contrasting inlay. Then like has been suggested, make more to distract, look intentional. 
I'm sorry man. "The difference between the amateur and the professional is how they fix their mistakes.", a direct quote from my Norwegian mentor in the middle of a louvered panel window treatment install. So it's a very old saying.
DanK


----------



## Buckethead

Rob, I get the same problem. I find that when I orient the power button to the right, or to the bottom, photos come out oriented correctly here. (iPad) (iPhone just does what it does which never seems to jibe with forums)


----------



## Buckethead

Okay, Mo… (Mauricio)...

A radical, but logical solution. Find out how wide the cut is… Not the kerf, but measuring from the end of the bench to the nearest edge of the cut (at the trough) and then from the edge to the entry point at the front of the bench. I'm guessing if you squared those over, the distance would be about 3" to 5" ...

Dado that out. 3/4…. 1-1/2" ... 1/4" your call (at a minimum, the depth of the cut). Replace that dadoed portion with a contrasting wood with grain oriented at 90 degrees. Zebrawood… Ebony… Something really beautiful. If you like that idea, you could match it on the opposite end.

You could fill with end grain cutting board action. I'm thinking this is an opportunity to be creative. Sure, your bench is the understated beauty. You could embrace a hint of gaudiness. My racing stripe bench is not bourn of a love for racing stripes, but from a limited supply of walnut. There just wasn't enough to get 4" legs of solid walnut. Stripes it is.

Embrace chaos.


----------



## widdle

Man..i've cut 2 major beams short over the years, and was switching my stance one time and had a 10' by 16" X long slide down a hillside and end up on a curb on sunset blvd at 3 o'clock on friday…Like six guys were staring at me and didn't say a word…pissed..

mauricio you been bustin out work on that bench, Id wear that scar with honor…glue a little rip in there and call it good…you got more stuff on that bench than Roy Underhill, when its goin down..as it should be…


----------



## theoldfart

+1 for the bucket. one of theses days i'm going to misspell your name and be evicted. well maybe not that but may have to eat soap!


----------



## Buckethead

Just hope for something besides lifebuoy. According to my favorite movie, it can cause thoap poithining.


----------



## theoldfart

thwell!


----------



## chrisstef

Rob - massive wood.

Gotta get the heat off here for ya Maur. Im not good, im not fast and they aint exactly straight …. But …. they fit.


----------



## theoldfart

Tah Dah Superb!


----------



## theoldfart

Stef, bottom before top?


----------



## DonBroussard

@Maur-Sorry to see the self-inflicted bench wound. I like buckethead's idea as a good solution. Of course, you make the call.

@Rob-Can't wait to see the bench hiding in that stock.

@oldfart-I noticed that you have a signature line now. Love me some Red Green!

@bucket-I'm not much of a movie person. What movie is that line from?

@stef-Making a strong statement right there. Is that a dry fit?


----------



## chrisstef

Yea kevin. Im a backwards kinda guy.

Correct Don. Very dry. Planning on a draw bore finish.


----------



## theoldfart

Canadian TV series. A scream!!!!! key item..duct tape.
look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Green_Show

Don glad to see there are some kulchurd folks, eh!


----------



## chrisstef

The top is gonna be so damn heavy im not gonna wanna flip it much after the glue up. Through mortises, that are really just half laps, will secure the top. I plan on making them up while theyre still loose and fitting them. Then glue up the 3 timbers that will make up the center section of the top. Then the 2 outermost timbers around them. Then ill worry about vices lol.


----------



## mochoa

DonW, you sure made me feel better with those stories. There is a song that's appropriate and says "Yeah I've done some dumb sh*t and I'm probably gonna' do some more"

Bondo, thanks for the sympathy.

Widdle. ;-), you're making the simple rip insert sound good. Or even make it an angle cross cut insert that matches the grain direction at least and forget the color match. Anyway the bench has black stains now where metal filings have come together with glue squeeze out. I drip glue on the bench all the time and just clean it off later.

RP those are some sweet timbers!

Dan, the cut offs were burned last winter. I agree, WW is a lot about knowing how to fix your mistakes.

Bucket, I've been called MO before, or Mau, its all good.

Embrace chaos huh? I don't know let me think about it, but I appreciate the thought. It would be a nice place to chop if there was an end grain cutting board there.

Stef, those are beautiful man, nice crisp shoulders! Thanks for drawing some fire.


----------



## theoldfart

Stef, sounds like a fork lift is in order or at least pneumatic bags!


----------



## Buckethead

I was considering doing the sliding dovetails for my front legs in that manner stef…

Dovetails with a circular saw. 

Now that I have my legs glued, that is not practical any longer. I figured since I want to master hand crafted dovetails, why waste the opportunity?

So I've got the chisels for that, though I will hog out the majority by machine.

On my rear legs, I'm opting for through tenons. I need to tool up there. I mean to locate a reasonably priced, yet beefy pig sticker.

I'm hoping my vice screw comes tomorrow from lee valley. It could enable me to really make some progress, as I want to leave the two front pieces of my top detached to ease the wagon vice build.

Then it's on to the wedge powered leg vice. I'm starting to feel intimidated by that, although it really isn't complicated. It's the drilling/boring I fear the most.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Lovely day on the bench thread. Red's fav post:
…it's very humbling to lie down on your bench while being photographed. Sorta galootish in a manner. Shows the down right human side of each of us…

Yes indeed brother. Just took a little bourbon to humble me

Maur- your boo-boo actually reminded me of a Schwarz quote: "Some days the wood wins, and you exit the shop with your tail between your legs." We can all relate.

Kev- Totally caught your Red Green pun on hpoyd. "If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." Words I live by.

Rob- Nice score on the timbers. Grab that 605 and peel some skin off dem timbers. Let's see whatcha got. 
Oh sweet memories. Like the corners of my mind….


----------



## RPhillips

Buckethead, I'm with you on the wedge vise…that my plan too. Seems simple enough, but it has me a little nervous too.


----------



## RPhillips

Yeah Red, Already put that 605 to work so I could identify those trunks of lumber. Oak's about the only species I can identify outside of pine and cedar. 

Looking forward to getting the shavings flying.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well get on it Rob;-). Thought it was kinda funny because that was the plane I used to get a somewhat true edge on my oak (in pic).

I gotta see about these wedge vises. Doesn't seem as user friendly as a threaded vise. But I could be wrong. It happens a lot.


----------



## Boatman53

Wow I leave you guys alone for a few days and all heck breaks loose around here. 
Sorry to hear about the mishap on your bench Mauricio.
Carry on.
Jim


----------



## RPhillips

@Red I would be on it if I could finally get a day off. Been stuck on night shifts for an outage, hopefully ill be getting back to normal this coming week.

Another thing, thinking of picking up a band saw. I'm checking locally on Craig's list and found a few, but I might go with the Anniversary Edition 14" Grizzly. I gotta look around the sight and see what info I can dig up.


----------



## Buckethead

So I was hoping my lee valley vise screw would arrive today…. Not this time. So lets make it a fun day anyway.

Got my basic legs spruced up today. I have been fretting the racing stripes, and nearly convinced myself to go purchase more walnut. I resisted, and I am beginning to like the way these looks.

I won't lie… I may have spent several hours planing, smoothing and sanding those girls today. I'm not sure they needed all the attention I gave them, but I certainly enjoyed it.

Some things I learned:

Some of the maple had some weird grain thing going. Nearer the more interesting grain formations, it tended to tear out when planing. I learned to attack from opposite sides and that was minimized. There were a couple spots that just didn't matter how I tried to hit with the ole #3… I got wise and left those for the sander. That worked very well, an those might be the prettiest bits of grain.

I learned a bit more about my planes. Specifically, the benefits of the lateral adjuster level. They are a bit different in how they act on each plane, but in making slight adjustments, you can zero in where you want. You guys already know this, of course, but I have to share it with someone!

And some of those fine shavings…. It's like Adult entertainment, without the need for absolution.

And sanding…. Not my forte. Well, when your sanding some utterly beautiful hardwoods, it is a joy.


----------



## BillWyko

One of the final touches on my bench, trays on either side. The angle makes it easy to sweep sawdust out & the trays will hold bench dogs with a curly maple lid. Almost done until I build the tool box in the under side.

By the way, I don't normally say this to a fellow man but….Nice legs. LOL


----------



## chrisstef

Love the walnut sammich bucket.

HM - classy stuff brother.


----------



## theoldfart

*Bucket*, great legs but i'm waitn' to see what she looks like on top!

*HM*, real men on LJ's say that all the time.

Had a small disaster on the 19'th, shop vac went up in blue flame, kinda weird!


----------



## widdle

good stuff goin down..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ +1. Nice work fellas. Buckethead…I like your style.

Rob- I hate night shift. Been on a good run of afternoons myself. Not too bad in the summer. 
I have a shopfox bandsaw (same as grizzly). No complaints. Get the biggest HP you can get for your buck.


----------



## RPhillips

@ Red yeah, I wish I could swing getting that 17" model, but my budget won't allow for it. I know having 12" re-sawing capacity would be nice.

I still need to get a few files ordered and get those saws all sharpened up. Plus, I still to nail down my design, basically I want a bench like the TWW/BenchCrafted model but with wedge vises. At least that's the plan as of now.


----------



## lysdexic

Just catching up.

*Maur -* you can try to make that kerf invisible. If that doesn't work, then my idea is the same as Bucketheads.

- square off with a wide dado. Then make a filler piece of contrasting wood. However, I wouldn't glue it in. Consider making a few filler strips. One flush, one proud for a planing stop, and whatever else that you can think of. You can incorporate the dog hole as well.

The kerf on the tool well can just stay and call it a "nick".

Good luck to you.


----------



## chrisstef

Bench question for the panel.

Should the stretcher that will house the sliding deadman be the same thickness as the deadman itself? Ive got a 2" thick piece of cherry that will be the deadman. It will have a recessed groove that will slide back and forth on the stretcher.


----------



## shampeon

I'm fighting off the fog from the few (ridiculously expensive) gin & tonics I had at my 20 year high school reunion when I open this thread and see the Mauricio Tragedy. Ooof.

Good to see the LJ braintrust working overtime to figure out fixes for it, though.

I'm probably going to frame a printout that says, "NO POWER TOOLS ON THE BENCH! RECALL MAURICIO'S PAIN!" when I finish mine, as a reminder during my moments of weakness.


----------



## Buckethead

Stef, I would think it would look better to be an equal thickness, although it wouldn't need to be provided the stretcher has sufficient mass to support it, any workpiece, and added stresses. It would need to support all the above over time as well. The dead man would presumably be a continuous load for the stretcher to bear. (Although you may be making yours removable) Sliding the deadman to one end while not in use would minimize this.


----------



## chrisstef

Solid explanation bucket. Ive got it in my mind that they would be best suited to the same thickness as well. At 2" thick it should handle just about anything i throw at it. Thanks for the thoughts bro.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mine match in thickness mostly because it made the angle cuts easier to match up…


----------



## Buckethead

Consultation time for teh bucket as well. (In French, Le Bùché.. To honor Monsieur Roubo)

I put all my parts in a rough dry mock up, and the legs are just too close together, even when I cheat them back to the outer face of the inner wall of the tool trough.










I had not intended to use feet/stretchers. I want my front legs to be flush with the front edge of the table, both for the sake of the leg vise, as well as for simplicity of design. Stability is the paramount concern. See image below. I don't think they are called stretchers or feet, but I don't know the proper nomenclature. (note the proper usage of "nomenclature")









So for mine, the front legs would remain continuous to the floor, excepting any joinery: a mortise. I drew a rough pattern.








IMAGE UPSIDE DOWN…. DANG DIDDLY DOGONNED INTERWEBS!

The scroll cut would extend about 4" beyond the rear legs, providing greater stability and greater balance aesthetically. I'm just worried that it will look goofy by not being symmetrical, front and back. I don't want to extend them in the front.

So give me brutal honesty here… Dumb idea?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Avoid it if you can, and towards that end, why not a trestle at the top that your legs are mortised into, which allows the back leg to run straight down and flush with the back of the tool tray?


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks for that, Smitty!

I had considered a trestle at the top, not having known the proper term, but as I have my heart set on a sliding dovetail at the front leg/top connection I had ruled it out. If I used a mortise into the leg with a tenon on the trestle, I could still do so. I only saw that possibility after viewing your drawing!

It would need to be a pretty stout tenon, and I'm guessing would be considered unorthodox. Thoughts?


----------



## mochoa

Red, Jim, thanks for the condolences, And thanks everyone for the suggested fixes. I'll let it marinade a little bit and see what makes sense.

Bucket that bench parts are looking very nice!

Humidor, pretty cool little nook you made there.

Steff he deadman doesn't have to be the same thickness as the stretcher, My deadman is ony abou 1" with some blocks to thicken at the top and bottom. It just cant be thicker than the stretcher because it would interfere with any cabinet you would put there in the future.

Ian. LOL. Glad my tragedy can be of some use.

Bucket, I like the idea Smitty drew out. You could always angle the back legs to. ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Bucket, I get what you're saying, and I think it'd work, too.

Edit: drawbore the top trestle at the front leg's M&T…


----------



## Buckethead

Okay… I have a single 8/4" x 8" x 8' hard maple timber I had been hoarding for the stretchers. Also, I have two 2' drops from my top which are of similar dimension. One, is poorly milled, and will not serve as a complete piece of 2" stock. The other has been designated as the end caps (bread boards?)

Fortunately I still have the smaller pieces of the skirts I salvaged which will be sufficient for the top trestles, and I have enough of a drop from the stretchers that I can have the lower trestles using all 8/4 stock glued up to 16/4.

So although I thought I was a mere couple days from completion, the proverbial wrench has been inserted into the clock works. That, coupled with a busy week ahead, leaves me time to find a bandsaw I might be able to use for cutting the scroll cuts on the trestles. I realize I could do a simple miter, or even leave them square, but if I will take the time to cut a detail on an arbor for money, why would I not make the effort for myself?

I may end up with the third most gaudy bench (despite its smaller dimensions) in the known universe.

There is no way I can verify that there actually are any others more gaudy or with sillier elements, but I'm sure there must be at least two.

For the record, I started out with an understated beauty in mind… Ah well. Over the top it is. On the bright side, I am not willing to pay for even more expensive lumber with which to build my bench. Maybe I'll bedazzle this sweetheart for posterity. Anyone got a link for rhinestones?


----------



## DanKrager

Bucket, If your feet were symmetrical, you wouldn't be able to walk, maybe not even stand, and it would look really silly! IMHO asymmetrical bench legs (or feet) are not a detraction, especially if there is a purpose behind it. As has been mentioned before, these are expensive holding jigs, a tool for holding things to work on. It's hard to keep that in mind with a furniture mindset! Pretty is nice, but I think function trumps. And since pretty is in the eye of the beholder, please your own senses first. It is after all, YOUR bench. 
I'm gonna go over to the corner and be quiet now. I was just waiting for some finish to dry! 
DanK


----------



## bondogaposis

Bucket, why don't you make the top wider?

Stef, My deadman is 1 1/4" and so is the board it rides on. I recessed my stretcher 1 1/4" than added a 1 1/4" board in front to bring it all flush w/ the front of the bench.


----------



## Buckethead

Dan, I think you hit it spot on!

If I had a few more fine joinery projects under my belt, I'm sure I'd be seeing this build much differently. I would have use SYP most likely, as it is abundant and cheap, function would have been nearly the only concern, and I probably would not have bothered with joinery other than lags, bolts and screws. So I'm actually glad that I'm using more than my normal utilitarian mind for this one. That said, it is a workbench, and I do intend to use it as such. Function must be the primary consideration and aesthetics must fall to second place.


----------



## Buckethead

Bondo… I desired a 4' x 8' Goliath. One never knows what project looms… Alas, having space for even this bench is stretching it. I've got 20 minutes of duty, just to get out a planer, jointer, table saw, or even the SCMS. a bench eats up my precious square feet, and my bench will also have it's own gravitational field. Any object without sufficient momentum/velocity to escape the gravity, will end up ensconced upon it's surface. Bigger bench… Bigger area for setting "stuff".

If I come to think it is too small for my needs, at least I'll have a bench on which to build my new bench!

Anyone ever successfully sold their Roubo on CL?


----------



## Buckethead

That got me thinking… On eBay… There is a bench for sale for about the cost of the leg vice: https://touch.ebay.com/tablet/item?itemId=111120480932&sk=SCH_933907

So in this case, it doesn't seem very lucrative.

Anybody near Londonderry NH need a compact bench?


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## BillWyko

Smitty, could you make a tool tray for the center like mine & make it wider? Then you could still go flush & do the DT's.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Me, Humid? Or you mean Bucket?

I've had a bench w/ a tray, and it didn't work for me.


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## chrisstef

Bondo, Smit - tganks for the graphic explanation. It confirms my suspicions. That also opens up the door for a fun step in the process. Creating the deadman itself. 8/4 Cherry. Gotta mill up the other 2 stretchers first.


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## DanKrager

Bondogaposis pose! Just a little Sunday night fun. Supposed to be cleaning the shop…










DanK


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## Buckethead

Lolololo…...l

Great shot Dan! Your bench is very slimming.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Love it Dan!


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## theoldfart

*Dan*, really big tool tray you got there!


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## chrisstef

Shot of the year!


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## bondogaposis

Ha ha, tool tray is right, great shot!


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## mochoa

hahahahah, the bar has been raised fellas!


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## Mosquito

I'm pretty sure if I tried that pose, the picture would be something along the lines of me and my bench on the floor lol I love it


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## BigRedKnothead

Dan…you are the MAN!!! Great stuff. Good times.

Yes, the bar has been raised.


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## theoldfart

Not fair, have to wait until next week for my oak for the top! sniff, sniff, sob!! gonna put on my green crocs and have a MGD. goodbye cruel world.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ internet gold. Hilarious Kev.


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## BillWyko

What has been seen cannot be unseen LOL. You guys are killin me. Liking the pattern makers vise, those are fantastic.


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## merrill77

@Mauricio Sorry to see the battle scar. I'd be cryin'...even though I didn't really consider aesthetics in my bench build at all. That said, leaving it visible as a reminder might prevent future injury.


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## AnthonyReed

Lys what is lounging in your window sill? Is beeswax involved?

Right on Terry! Outstanding Bondofication.

Sorry Mauricio. I am with Widdle in, glue a rip in there and move on. Chicks dig scars.

Those stretchers look beautiful Stef. You are doing a great job man.

Your bench is just stunning Humidor. Besides all the beautiful wood, all the details you have added are fantastic.

Nice progress Bucket, thanks for bringing us along with you.

Damn fine show Dank. None higher Sir.


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## BillWyko

Thanks Tony, it's been years in thought & months in the build. While I wanted to build everything I could into it so I don't have to do it twice, I want to build another one. This has been way too much fun to only do it once. Maybe I can do one in pine to save money & do one more.


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## Dozuki31

This past weekend, I took a large step in my journey with hand tool woodworking. I hit up a garage sale on the weekend, and much to my surprise, I was able to find and purchase an old woodworking bench. I couldn't believe it. I have seen many pictures of beautiful, old, history rich benches, and always wished I could own one. Now I do. Here are a few pictures of the bench:




























Gonna start the restoration process ASAP. Not going to go to crazy though, as I'd like to preserve the history and some of the patina. The face vice needs a bit of work to clean up a bit of slop/play, but other than that, its a very solid bench. I may start a blog documenting my progress, and get a little more into detail. I'm so excited to finally have a real workbench. I was planing to build one, but I could not build one for cheaper than what I paid ($75). The workmate can now be retired!


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## Buckethead

What a gem!

Is that HPL where the white is?

If it was me (and it isn't) that would be the only change I made to her. Getting rid of the HPL and whatever it's laminated to.

So since you're gloating, how much did she set you back?

My local CL has a guy selling his for $699, who seemingly isn't having much luck. His bench is easily worth triple that. It isn't an antique, as this one apparently is.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, that was an awesome deal!

I hope you do blog the rehab, it will be a series to see. A sharp scraper would do wonders to that top, and the face vice is like nothing I've seen before (action shots of that, pls?)

Congrats!


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## chrisstef

Doz - sneaking in and droppin thunder. That bench is sweet! I second Smittys request for a clean er up blog series. Id mix that in right between Roy and Tommy Mac during my Sunday night woodworking from the couch extravaganza. Provided I don't spill any Ben & Jerry's on my laptop.

I was greeted tonight with a mystery package. Long and cylindrical in nature the package peeked out of my mailbox. Inside this beauty from my boy Hog.










After using a BFS (big f'n screwdriver) to open and close my vice forever this is a well needed and beautiful upgrade. The vice is going to get repainted and it is officially going to be mounted on the new bench. Black on Paduak. Tasty town.


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## donwilwol

My reaction was "oh wow". Ditto on the than blog. I don't know where I'd put it, but if I found it it would have come home with me as well.

What a great find.


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## mochoa

Dozuki, that is an amazing score. Are those flip down feet or were extensions glued on?

Stef, I like the vise, and the handle is a beauty.


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## theoldfart

Dozuki, great find, that front vise screams for an action video!


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## AnthonyReed

Congrats Dozuki! That is a wonderful bench. +1 to more pics of the face vice workings please.

Hog set you up in style Stef. Very nice indeed.


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## DonBroussard

@Dozuki-just outstanding! I vote thumbs up to seeing the blog too. it looks like the end vise has a taper in the side (not sure what to call it). Opticall illusion from camera perspective, or is it real?


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## mochoa

Might be a stray circular saw cut. ;-)


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## mochoa

Oh wow Dozuki, I just noticed the front vise. Thats different!


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## Mosquito

Dozuki that is an awesome find. That front vise is definitely interesting…


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## widdle

Wow..What a great bench…The end vise looks like a good one…
Stef ..Nice..That'll help…Just stripping the red and going bare metal isn't a bad look…Black and padauk good definetly..


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## RGtools

For $75 it would have come home with me too. That is awesome. I would start by taking the vises off, cleaning the screws and flatting the top. Then start using the thing, you should be able to fine tune as you go.


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## theoldfart

This just posted, he did a great job>
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/87391#comment-1626860


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## Dozuki31

I'm glad that everyone likes the bench as much as i do.

Buckethead - That is indeed HPL. Looks like an old counter top with drawers was at one time mounted to the bench. I totally agree about removing them. The bench only set me back $75.

Mauricio - The feet are extensions that are glued and screwed on. The bench stands at 36" tall right now. Without the extensions, it is 29".

Don Broussard - The line that appears in the picture on the vice, is a shallow saw kerf created sometime in the benches life. Bench battle wounds lol.

I snapped a few pics of the front vice.





































Got it taken apart tonight. Lots of gunk built up on the moving parts. Will need to clean and wax them, and then the vice should open and close nice and easy.


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## woodcox

Great detail shots Doz. What does the front vise thread into? Is there a trapped nut or something else in the apron? Any dogs come with it? Gonna be fun making new ones.


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## woodcox

OR can I see pop ups in there below flush?
edit: sorry, looks more like haunched? mortises to keep em from fallin.

I would like to see more pics like this of the benches that grace this thread. Under carriage, behind the skirt kind of shots.

just saw that I am looking for nutz under skirts and wanting more. jeeeeez!


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## Buckethead

This has been an exceptional week for "scores" and your bench might be the best of those.

As far as resale value, perhaps not, but in terms of replacement cost and availability, it wins hands down!


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## theoldfart

Doz, I'm betting that the legs are a later in life replacement judging by the clearance grooves from the dog holes.
That vise IS really the bees knees!


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## chrisstef

That is one hell of a front vice, its really really awesome. Is it sliding on a dovetail there? That must have been a bear to cut!


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## robertb574

I like this vise - never noticed one like this. That part of it on the end that Stef asks if sliding on dovetail. Is that to keep the vise from racking? If it is, how well does it work?


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## AnthonyReed

Thanks for the additional shots Dozuki. That is one great vise.


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## chrisstef

I wonder if I could incorporate something like that as my end vice. The only issue I see is that the parallel guide may interfere with wide boards being held upright. Whats the distance between the guide and the edge of the vice? I guess you could install it directly underneath the screw to gain some space. Its dead there anyway.

Again, that vice blows me away. Stef likey.


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## theoldfart

Legs are marked and ready to cut. Most likely Saturday at the earliest!:


















Guess no more procrastination, need to giter done.


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## AnthonyReed

Right on Kevin!! You got this.


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## DaddyZ

I bet that bench is going to blow your socks off once it is cleaned up…


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## chrisstef

Kevin - whats gonna be the saw of choice for those monstahs?


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## theoldfart

Stef, at a clients so quick answer. My mitre box saw. Only thing big enough.


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## mochoa

Dozuki, that is one hell of a parallel guide! Never seen anything like it.

Ha! That mo fo' cut into his bench with a circular saw to! Nice to know I'm not the only one.

I'd cut those feet off and put hinges on them so they flip down.

Kevin, that just looks like a bunch of fun getting ready to happen!


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## widdle

^ similar angle…I think it's a tradition, for eyballing your dovetail angle ..


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## terryR

+n on the awesome bench, Dozuki! That is a sweet piece…sure wish it were signed and dated.  Cannot wait for more photos…I'm experiencing vise envy again!!!

Kevin, that looks like a 1/2 ton of fun! Hey, ship one to me, and I'll get started asap. Heck, ship the other 3 to Red, and he'll be done tomorrow. LOL…


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## theoldfart

TR yea, drivin' that train…..


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## Airframer

Got my wagon vise on the move finally!






Then I had to chop an angled mortise for the flange bearing and a leather compression washer to align that stupid thing to keep it running smoothly. Precision has to start somewhere… just not at my shop apparently lol.



















Now to sharpen some blades and cut some tool well dados and dovetails


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## theoldfart

Eric, good job on diagnosing the issue. Lotta folks would've left it. Down the road they would complain about the quality of materials when the bearings started to act up.

Oh yea , YER DOIN" IT! (positive reinforcement)


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## Buckethead

^^^ Agreed!

When I read the post on my phone, I didn't really grasp the problem. I read in my email as I was moving and shaking… (lol)

So no pix. Now I see exactly what you're saying, and stand further awed by your resourcefulness.

So I worked out of town for the previous couple days, and had today at home. I went out to play at about 11am, but it began raining in my shop. (Driveway)

I took a nap. Then helped my son change his brake pads. No bench progress… Except… My lee valley vice screw arrived today. That and an awesome Stanley Bailey #7 I bought from fellow LJ, Mark E.

He is fair, and each plane I have bought from him has been a joy. So of course I had to run that thing down the edge of one of my mammoth pieces of Sapele. (Sans proper Roubo bench)

I am seriously considering selling the craftsman power jointer I just bought for a buck fiddy. Try to joint a 5/4×22" x 12' timber on a 42 " jointer. Ain't happnin. ( it could happen, but much additional infeed and out feed support would be needed, and setup time along with workspace issues make it impractical.) that #7 does it nearly as fast, without the set up time. And hand planing is just therapeutic whereas jointing by machine is not particularly good medicine for the soul.

So back to the salt mine tomorrow, and likely through Sunday. Woe is me. New toys arrive, and I will not be able to play.

TOF, I laid out a leg like you did, but I was hesitant to go any further. I wanted to have a grasp on the wagon vise design so is don't end up setting a leg where I want a dog hole.

Q: should the tail and tenon on the leg be cut first, or the pin and mortise into the tabletop?


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## Airframer

A: If you are asking mortise or tenon first I went mortise and fit the tenon to the hole (also an important life lesson there.. )

I just found it easier to shave down the tenon to fit than trying to enlarge the hole.

New for is that I suck at drilling straight holes with a power drill apparently. Square dog on the wagon vise it is then…..


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## Airframer

NVM… I decided to drill it out to 1" centered and call it a day. Gonna make a 1" captive dog for the vise and be done with it.

On a different note.. I just noticed that our "Smackdown" project tag has been added to the OP  Hopefully I'll have one to add to that soon.


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## Buckethead

Thanks AF… That makes good sense. On the few dovetails I have cut, I did notice that it was easier to pare the tails (and pins) than the abutting ends, (if that makes sense) (the insides which form the crosscut… Perhaps there is a proper term I am missing here too.)

In the south, "we don't care how they do it up north" is a line I've heard many times. It is a means of remaining ignorant of terminology and methodology while feeling good about our ignorance.


----------



## theoldfart

Bucket, I'm going with tenon first, then tracing it on the top. I'm going with a plane tail vise so less crucial on dog placement (I think!)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Eric- I can't believe you actually made that vise. It's pimp.

Kev- Seeing those legs layed out give me butterflies. I actually layed in bed at night thinking about if/how I could pull off those dovetails. Don't know if you saw my blog, but I used a lot of power tools. And I made the cuts before laminating. It was more in my comfort zone. I didn't have a decent large hand saw anyway.

I believe I had already started my bench build before I got on LJs, and I didn't know about this forum. I Would've have been fun to get feedback here along the way. Maybe the next one. 
Speaking of that, I might start the joinery bench soon. I don't have the hobby money to finish it (big commission coming up should take care of that), but I think I have enough wood on hand for the top and the legs. We'll see.


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## theoldfart

Red, I have read the Schwarz's bench books cover to cover beau coup times. What got me off my a$$ was your blog! I have it memorized. We shall see if I'm in over my head this evening when I cut the first keg I mean leg. Damn iPhone spell checker.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

What got me off my a$$ was your blog! I have it memorized.

eeeekk! Makes me wish I would have done a better job on it. Funny thing about my bench blog….it was an afterthought. I got some pms when people saw my bench in the background of other posts. A blog was easier than answering all the questions But that's why I had to piece the blog together a bit.


----------



## theoldfart

U did a fine job, hope I can do the same. There's all these lurkers in the back ground/peanut gallery! I would never do that. ;{


----------



## mochoa

Eric, that's vise is freaking amazing man! So smooth! Great job man.

Man I need you to look at my wagon vise. It works great but I get resistance towards each end of the travel. It moves really well in the middle. I couldn't figure out the issue but it hasn't been a big issue so I left it that way.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Outstanding AF! Getting the proper angle on that mortice could not have been an easy task. Thanks for the video. 

Looking forward to the joinery bench BRK.


----------



## Mosquito

My wagon vise also gains resistance as I get it close to it's fully open position. I haven't done anything about it, since the only time I've ever had it that far out was when I was testing it lol

-

I would be jealous over a joinery bench. I've got to make some sort of bench on bench, or moxon vise, or something. After spending a couple hours hunched over working on the plane tote, my back was not happy


----------



## mochoa

Mos, lately what I've been doing whenever I'm doing a lot of joinery is throwing some 1.5" pine blocks under the legs. It makes a big difference. I still like it low for planning though.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I have a question that may appear snarky but it's not: Why a joinery bench vs. a stool? The workbenches we have can hold work six ways from Sunday, and it's not enough? I have a stool in the bench area; when dovetailing I pull it up to the bench and sit. Brings the work closer and no hunching. I love the idea of building an uber-Moxon-Joinery thingy, but don't want to admit my bench isn't right for joinery.

File this under 'things I think on a Thursday.'


----------



## donwilwol

Mos, I'm right there with you on the maxon vice or bench on bench. My bench is a good height for most things, including planing, but for that be tail work it needs height.

Maur, if there is one thing my back wouldn't like, is me lifting my bench. I guess I could slide the floor jack over.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah, mine is not quite as massive as yours so its still possible.


----------



## JayT

Smitty, my thought on that is that when standing, I have a lot more options for how to stand and change positions quickly and easily vs. sitting on a stool and having to either be twisting around or constantly moving the stool to get my body and arm at a good angle.

Thinking about dovetails, for instance, I can't see how to cut both angles across a board while sitting in a fixed location. Standing at a joinery bench or using bench on a bench (which is where I will be going), small adjustments of foot placement allow for the different angles and width of the stock. Then again, I am just learning this hand cut joinery thing, so maybe I work inefficiently.


----------



## Mosquito

My bench is also smaller and lighter, so I'd have to make something the feet would sit in, as opposed to on. It still moves a little from time to time.

Why not a stool? 
1.) don't have one, 
2.) I tend to move around a lot when I'm working on things. 
3.) I feel more stable standing than sitting on a stool

But I might have to pick something up for cutting dovetails or something when I'll be doing it for a while at a time. Wouldn't hurt to give it a try, I guess


----------



## chrisstef

Smitty - ill try and chime in here answering your question, albeit with minimal experience. Ive tried doing things from a stool and it just seems that ive got nothing behind it. My legs provide a good balance and it gets thrown off when im not standing. Liquor and other things aside of course. It does bring my face/eyes closer to the work which is nice but half of my technique (which is shaky) starts with a good base underneath.

Personally id go with a moxon bench on a bench. Need a bench first though.


----------



## donwilwol

Smitty, I have a stool and use it sometimes, but agree with JayT. I tend to move around and slide side to side. The stool slows you down. Its not that I'm usually in a hurry, but I do like to remain productive.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Those are good answers. Chopping out waste is easier when sitting vs. sawing, but then I woudn't saw sitting down anyway. With a raised platform, as I think ScottyBYo and I talked about before, the angle of the saw is changed completely and I'm not sure I'd like it. Biggest issue sawing DTs to me is seeing the bloody lines, but that's a lighting (and aging) issue.

I have a slab of hickory that would make an awesome thingy if the time comes. We'll see.


----------



## mochoa

I have to try doing DT's on a stool. It could work.

But what about cutting dado's? You need to be over the work with knife, chisel, router plane, hard to do on a stool and tough on the back.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

RE: dados. Did alot of those on the benchtop already but have to recall issues / process.

The method now is the adjustable backsaw for the sidewall cuts (standing), then cleanup with chisel and router plane. If it's gonna take awhile, I pull up the stool. The work is fixed in postion by holdfasts, so it shouldn't be going anywhere that I need to keep up with.


----------



## AnthonyReed

" I do like to remain productive." - Ya think? Hardly noticeable.

I too, feel much more stable while standing than when I have tried sitting on a stool.


----------



## mochoa

Smitty, I think your bench might be at a good intermediat height that works for most things. Mine is a little on the low side (Schwarz guidlines). I love the height for planing though.


----------



## chrisstef

I do have a really nice stool in my shop that I absconded from UConn during a demo job we were doing. Cushions seat, swivels 360 degrees, articulating back rest, and a full foot rest. Its really one of the more comfortable stools ive ever owned.


----------



## Mosquito

Depends on the size of the dado, and whether or not it's a stopped dado. If it's a dado all the way across, I'll use Paul's knife wall method to start the back saw, then remove most of the waste by chisel, and finish with router plane.

If it's a stopped dado, I start with a knife wall, but then just keep going that way. Marking knife to get deeper, chisel at an angle to the bottom of that, and repeat until I'm down to depth on the sides. Then chisel out the waste, and clean up with the router plane.

Lots of back and forth from side to side for both of those


----------



## theoldfart

Have two chairs and a stool, always seem to wind up standing!


----------



## woodcox

Steve Branam's "Roubo's slippers" from his blog 'closegrain'.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'd have to find a place to put the massive 'jig' if I'd make one too…


----------



## mochoa

Roubo Slippers huh? Interesting idea.

I don't like the idea of storing a bench on bench either.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Joinery bench? Good question Smitty.

It's certainly not mandatory, but the idea of a taller bench for those tasks appeals to my bad back. I have a stool, but I don't use it much. Mostly for my mortising machine. 
I have a big, empty space on that back wall now…..just made sense to me. Never seems like I can have enough bench/counter space. I don't have any experience with a moxon vise, and I don't have that detail worked out yet….but we'll see. 
Lastly, I'm really looking forward to all the storage beneath.


----------



## mochoa

Providing you have space for a joinery bench, which you do, I think it would be an awesome addition to any shop. And like you said Red, its not wasted space, it actually adds storage.


----------



## merrill77

I made a little progress in the past week on the tool cabinet under my bench. I have the cabinet carcass done and it is ready for drawers and shelves. The cabinet was designed to be an integral part of the bench-it essentially forms a giant I-beam down the long axis of the bench and prevents racking in either direction. The bench was already plenty solid, but there is no way this thing is racking now. The middle panel (which divides from from rear) is a bit oversized and thus pushes out on the sides to ensure a tight fit. I had to assemble it in-place and it fits so tight I can't budge it without dis-assembling a good bit of the bench. The cabinet is low enough that I can still use F-clamps on workpieces on the benchtop without interference from below. At least until I start stashing all kinds of jigs and project parts on top of the cabinet  I've been weighing the parts as I assemble the bench - the 72"x24" bench now weighs in at 268 lbs. When I get the drawers filled with my tools, I'm not sure I'll be able to move it.

Lots of drawers to build, now: three banks of drawers on this side:









and some very shallow shelves behind the planing beam. I plan to keep most of my bench planes there.









I've got some more details of the cabinet build here.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Very slick Merrill, a lot of similarities to what I've got in mind for my joinery bench. I'm gonna build the top and legs…..then cases/boxes for the drawers to slide in later.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Merrill, good stuff with the cabinet.

Thanks for the discussion of 'bench-on-bench' appliances, Gents. Can't believe I'd sucessfully talk myself out of a build for the shop, but so far this one is low on the priority list. I saw something on the web that had Follensbee using a moxon; it was nothing more than 24" 2x material with threaded screws, and he used it to steady boards to work on edges. Very simple. Didn't clamp it to the front of the bench to work ends of boards, but maybe I didn't look long enough at the article/video to see it happen.

The benchtop, face clamping joinery 'jigs' are something different, of course. Beautiful and functional as well (thinking Yo's right now).

It's all about learning new tricks and enjoying the journey, and maybe even building a thing or two worthy of our efforts.


----------



## Airframer

Merrill.. Lookin' Good! That leg vise looks pretty slick too.

I'm on the fence for the bench on bench build. I will know more once this one is done and I start using it. I can see the need for the bench on bench but I can't wrap my head around a completely separate bench for joinery. Again… time will probably tell me otherwise.

Well… Here it is in it's final state. Yes the dog hole is slightly off center but I measured the dog strip and It's still "centered" enough to clamp some pretty thin stock so I can live with that. I got the runners, threaded rod and bearing all greased up. It works even better the right way up. I can even get it to free spin 2 or 3 turns before it stops  I guess gravity was the missing ingredient lol.

Tested it's holding capacity and I was able to clamp a scrap in it and lift the bench top about 2 inches before it let go. I think once I get some leather on the face and actually secure the end caps it shouldn't even let go. Over all I give it a B+ and already see some areas of improvement if I was to do this again.


----------



## mochoa

Merrill the cabinet is looking nice.

Eric, that wagon vise is truely something to be proud of man. Great work!


----------



## RPhillips

Looking good fellas, looks like there's been some hard work going on around here. Keep it up guys.


----------



## theoldfart

Started the leg tenons tonight and quickly concluded once a night is enough!
Scribed and knifed the lines:









Then started the kerfs with the little guy and then went to the big gun:

















then moved on to the bashing:









Came out well:

















Hope to have all four done by the weekend


----------



## Mosquito

Nice work TOF. Gotta do what ya gotta do, even if that means using a massive miter box saw lol


----------



## theoldfart

Arm is killing me!!


----------



## Airframer

You gotta switch arms every now and then…

Those turned out Great! Way better looking than my tenons did. I'm going to need about half a tree to wedge the gaps closed lol.


----------



## theoldfart

Actually I two handed the mitre saw! Also do have some cleanup to do on the dove tail. I did the back leg first thinking I SHOULD get better as I go along.
That vise of yours has folks drooling(me included), keep it up ;{


----------



## Buckethead

Indeed! Props on the precision cuts, TOF!

I have a few cracks about your tired arm, but I'll let those rest. 

I'm still on lockdown, so no progress for me, but I must say that it has been a pleasure following everyone's progress, reading comments, and sharing the experience, even if by proxy. This has been a far more enjoyable experience than if I just went it alone. Thanks, gentlemen.


----------



## theoldfart

Come on down, I've been doing that for about three years, took a year just to sign up on LJ's.


----------



## merrill77

TOF - nice work…and I'm jealous of your big miter saw. I've always had trouble getting accurate cuts with my framing saw…I wonder if a stiffer saw like yours would give me better results?

Naaah…it's probably operator error!


----------



## widdle

Of..Lookin good..


----------



## CL810

AF & OF are rock in' it out!!!!


----------



## theoldfart

*Chris* my saw technique sucks so I used the BIG one!
*Wddle* & *Clayton* Thanks


----------



## chrisstef

An absoltely splendid showing this evening gents. Ive been looking at those kinda cuts for my bench and its got me so puckered up i havent released enough tension to cut em.


----------



## widdle

^ Templates…And a sample on on some scrap…Just like warm ups, before you go in the game..


----------



## chrisstef

Yea. Im gaining the confidence Widdle. Sloooowly.










The saw i really wanna use is handless and dull as a brick currently but im testing the rip cuts with that panel saw i just sharpened.


----------



## Airframer

I can now say I see the appeal of these things.

Even with the end caps clamped on this thing is darn useful and a delight to use compared to what I was using!

Makin' a dog 










How many of you just sat there for a few hours and ran your vise back and forth when you were done? Or am I just easily amused lol.


----------



## Brit

I's just you Eric. )

Wait a minute though, I haven't built my bench yet so you never know.


----------



## terryR

Eric, I did the same with my simple leg vise after completion. IF I could build a wagon vise as schweet as yours, I would be dragging the UPS guy into the shop to show it off…just about the only visitor we get out here! 

Stef, did you just say you need a tote? bud…talk to me…

Kevin, thanks a million for teaching me how to make those beautiful dovetailed tenons, or whatever the exact term is. Those are the next legs I wanna build, but was intimidated. Looks like a lot of work, but no magic. However, I'm sure test fitting something that massive takes some effort…


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, I think I may need block and tackle to lift the bench so trying like h$ll to get a perfect fit first shot! Dreaming I guess.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Kev- that leg looks freakin sweet. Sorry about the sore biceps. Not everyone can have big red guns like me;-P


----------



## Airframer

A couple questions for you guys..

Dog spacing. What is the formula here. I have 7 1/2" of travel on my vise and a smidge over 57" of dog strip. How do you guys figure the spacing and number of dogs?










Also.. what should I do about this? The back piece for my tool well has a slight bend in it. I measured at the center and it is roughly 1/8" worth of bend which isn't much. I had thought about trying to steam it out like Maur did but I am also thinking that it is just slight enough to allow the well bottom to push it straight during assembly. How to proceed…


----------



## Mosquito

"but I am also thinking that it is just slight enough to allow the well bottom to push it straight during assembly"
That's probably what I would do. Bend is better that way than the other way

And as for dog spacing, I did 4" on center, with 5" of vise travel. I don't personally think the dog spacing should be impacted by the vise travel at all, but that's just my opinion.


----------



## JayT

Dog spacing-less than your vise travel, but not so far apart you spend forever cranking the vise to clamp something.

I did 4", as well. My tail vise has quite a bit more free travel than that, but the spacing worked nicely to miss the upper stretchers and seems like a good distance both visually on my bench and practically.


----------



## Dozuki31

So I'm still a few days away from finishing up cleaning my bench worktop, but i was just wondering what would be a good finish to put on it? Would just BLO be okay? or beeswax and BLO mix? Or go with something like a Minwax tung oil finish?

Another question, would you flatten the workbench top? I'm worried that if i do, ill loose a lot of the dents and dings that give the bench so much character.


----------



## shampeon

Floating tenon mortises for my workbench breadboards.









I've never done floating tenons before. I hate using my router unless I have to, but it does come in handy sometimes. In this case, I made a template to use my pattern bit.

Of course, it seems like every time I use my router, some little thing gets screwed up. My plunge depth was a little too shallow for the bearing on the right mortise after my initial cut with the template and I didn't notice it right away. Shouldn't be a big deal, but there it is.


----------



## chrisstef

Doz - i think blo would be a fine choice. Just my vote though. Id definitely flatten the top as well. I can understand the lore of the dings but youd be defeating a purpose of the bench and doing yourself a disservice. Ive been hand planing boards on an unlevel bench and lemme tell ya a board popping up over your stop as u plane gets annoying quick.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dogs - Half the distance of your vice' travel, and round down.

It'll bend out…


----------



## shampeon

I'll second chrisstef here. Level the top, but you don't need to make it pristine to get it level. There will be plenty of character left, I bet.

I experimented with BLO plus mineral spirits and shellac (equal parts) with a tool stand I recently made. Turned out nice, and dried faster than straight BLO. That's what I'm going to use on my bench.


----------



## Buckethead

I'm dreading work tomorrow. My bench beckons, and all the pieces are here. CURSEWORDS!


----------



## woodcox

Doz, I would mayb put together a lil scrapbook of the way we were then make it useful again, it will thank you.

Pretty shamp .

oh and pretty solid hooking siavosh up with that block. He seemed stoked.


----------



## woodcox

DPed:{


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Shamp- lol I'm totally lost as to how those are gonna be breadboards….but I'm sure I'll feel dumb when you show me.

Af- what smitty said.

Doz- I'm a big fan of watco danish oil. Really just a varnish/tung oil mixture. Really easy to touch up and add coats.

I'm gettin the bench itch.


----------



## Airframer

Thanks guys. So 7 1/2" would be 3 3/4" do i round down to 3 1/2" or 3"?

Dovetailed the other end cap on tonight and yep.. still suckin' at the dovetailin'










Had a runaway split while paring one of the pins .. gonna need a few shims for this one *doh!










I figure by the time I get to number 4 I might have this figured out…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

3 1/2" spacing should be just fine.


----------



## theoldfart

I have proof that WMD's exist! I give you the Bash-O-Matic:









It is a genuine Weapon of Massive Dovetails ;{

Then there were two.









More to follow…...someday, I'm tared


----------



## Airframer

Halfway there! Looking good!

Well, I finished my bench this morning…

Saw Bench that is lol. Decided this morning I needed one to finish up the dovetails on the bench. Here is the result of roughly 5 hours of work.


----------



## CL810

WOW *OF* - looking strong!


----------



## widdle

NICE OF.. Did you go 45 there ? looks clean…


----------



## chrisstef

OF - nice pigsticker there. Love the beater too.

Need me one of those Eric. Nooiiice. .


----------



## theoldfart

a *Wddle Riddle* 45?
Three down one to go, time for a beverage!
Eric, clayton, widdle, stef thanks


----------



## JayT

Finally conquered the 90% syndrome! (On one project, at least)


----------



## lysdexic




----------



## AnthonyReed

So damn cool *OF*, way to go man!

Thanks Lys.


----------



## theoldfart

Tony, thanks. Last one today I hope. Wood for the top should be Wednesday and screw maybe two weeks.
I's going


----------



## shampeon

Floating tenons glued into the main top. They're also red oak.









I'm working on the breadboards today.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Looking good Ian.

So they only "float" on the breadboard side?


----------



## widdle

That's gonna be nice shamp….

How did i not get invited to that roubo build….Great video…


----------



## woodcox

That top dropping into place was great for the soul! I especially liked the dovetailing with the Mafell saw. Made my morning Lys.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Kevin I think Widdle was asking:


----------



## terryR

^Yeah, is that 45 or 60 degrees from the vertical or horizontal?


----------



## Buckethead

Ya…great vid Lys. It would be unmanly of me to suggest that I got teary eyed at the end, so I won't do it.


----------



## theoldfart

45, I'm a bit slowww


----------



## shampeon

Tony: yup, just floating in the breadboards. I'll probably drawbore them. By adding floating tenons I could keep the length of the main slab. Gluing in the loose tenons on the slab side is fine because the grain is the same direction. The breadboards won't be glued to allow for movement.


----------



## donwilwol

I love that picture Terry.

Great shot Ian of the breadboards going on.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Got it. Thanks Ian.


----------



## DanKrager

Ian, I guess I don't understand draw boring well enough yet. If you draw bore the breadboard to the tenons, doesn't that prevent the top from expanding and contracting, leading to trouble? Where does the movement occur if you draw bore the tenons into the breadboard?
BTW, that's a really nice bench!

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Legs are done! mostly:









Two of the 45's need repair: glue for one and a shim for the other:









The last leg came out perfectly. Gotta get a Beastmaster from Bad Ax next time.


----------



## terryR

Awesome work, Kevin.
maybe a 14" would do?


----------



## donwilwol

Dan, when you draw a floating tenon, you elongate the hole in the tenon. That holds the joint tight, but allows it to float when it expands.

Nice work Kevin.

Terry, your the only one I know with a display stand for their back saw.


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, yea thats what i'm talkin' about. 5" under the spine?
Don, thanks


----------



## DanKrager

OK. Thanks Ian. Now I understand like a grown up!
DanK


----------



## terryR

Something like that, Kevin. I'm afraid to scratch it, though!  I've only used it once in practice. When Mark Harrell saw that photo, he said to, "Get the damn thing off the easel, and use it!"

Now that you've shown me how to lay out those fancy dovetailed tenons, I plan to scratch the saw a bit…

Don, it's in the bedroom now…nowhere near the concrete floor of the shop…embarrassing?


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, BTW I posted a comment using the phrase "Progressive Luddite" but couldn't remember where I heard it. Turns out it was Bad Ax!

That saw will help tremendously, I had to lay out the cuts with my small dovetail, then finnish with my mitre saw. Ran into some issues as you can see from the above pics. Go for it!!


----------



## DonBroussard

The last couple of weeks have been very inspirational, with all the great bench work posted here. Plenty of galoot points awarded to Airframer and TOF. Great work, LJs!


----------



## CL810

Great video lys - thanks for posting.


----------



## Buckethead

You guys are DOMINATING!

Tenons, tails, manly home fabbed wagon vises… Draw boring, back saw display stands… Btw, I need a bigger saw. My little Veritas dovetail saw is nice, but doesn't have the capacity to get my leg tenons cut. I also need one of these:









Any suggestions?


----------



## theoldfart

Bucket, I've seen a few of these. They actually come in pairs! You can use your dovetail saw and finish with a mitre saw or really sharp rip.


----------



## Buckethead

I'm in the market, TOF. I do have a couple modern big box versions f handsaws. Each was purchased to cut foam board insulation as we installed firring on CMU structures. Concrete block was the cutting guide. So… Even the better of the two isn't up to the task. (Not that I didn't give it a go.)

I decided patience was in order, as well as a day of rest. (Pesky day job gets in the way of the real work to be done.)

So I see three "vintage" handsaws listed on CL for five bucks apiece, but have little practical experience with handsaws. I could order online. I think I might do both.


----------



## chrisstef

Sweet vid scott. Im bout to back it up with a freshly dvr'd date with Roy. Sunday night, blanky, recliner, nilla wafers.


----------



## merrill77

Dozuki - I avoid any wax on my bench, since it's primary job is holding things in place and was is an effective lubricant. Plus, any transfer of the wax onto my project could interfere with applied finish. Really, any finish at all is likely to be more slippery than the bare wood…but like most of us here, I wanted to get at least a little bit of stain protection, so I just wiped on a thin coat of BLO.


----------



## Airframer

I was actually a little taken back by the video. When this project first came up a few months ago I was expecting an epic hand tool build with giant slabs of wood. I was surprised at how many power tools were used and how few hand tools were used considering the spirit of the build. Re creating the Roubo woodworking bench and all.

That said.. it was pretty cool to watch and looked like a lot of fun.


----------



## mochoa

Jay, the bench is sweet! Congrats on finally finishing it off.

Scott, thanks for posting that video, it was beautiful, when the fork lift dropped the top on the base and it just sank home without effort I actually giggled.

Ian, great progress man!


----------



## merrill77

I got a little time over the weekend…so I added shelves to the back side of my bench. Tools that I frequently use on that side of the bench will be close at hand:










I also added a clamp rack to each end of the bench, between the legs. 20 clamps will be close at hand as well as a holdfast on each end. I've been looking for a place to keep those holdfasts ever since I bought them!


----------



## Buckethead

Ya, AF… they lost plenty of galoot points. It seems like they had sufficient manpower to go all hand tools there, but they opted for machines.

A couple scenes were kinda funny, like when they were jointing slabs with about 12 guys. Bordered on comical. (methinks there were too many doods, helping too much.)

But the finished product was something to behold.


----------



## mochoa

Kevin, those legs are looking great man, the dovetails will clean up nicely I'm sure.

Merrill, great storage idea. I kind of like the clamps under one of the wings of the bench.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ian- ahhhh…floating breadboards. now I'm pickin' up what your puttin' down.

Big fat cheaters in the video used more power tools that I did to make a roubo. I think my next one will be that length


----------



## widdle

One year from now we get together and build 1 bench per man,,, Who's in…Im in…


----------



## DonBroussard

@widdle-A shop-made workbench swap? We'll have to work out something to address shipping!

+1 on my disappointment with the lack of galootness in ScottyB's video. I really expected it to be sort of a "silent movie" with an all hand tool build.


----------



## lysdexic

I wasn't disappointed at all. In fact, i was glad to see they didn't flog themselves trying to be true to some galoot dogma. Remember this was a 5 day project between strangers with heavy timbers. I'd use whatever tool I had at my disposal to accomplish the mission in the time allotted.

It took me 7 months to build a bench. They got er dun in 5 days.


----------



## Airframer

That's true. In a 5 day build of that scale you do have to cheat a bit but I mean come on.. they cheated in some spots that really didn't need cheating.

It reminded me of all the how to videos on YouTube for building a "Hand tool" cabinet where they use exclusively power tools to build it. All the while they are trying to store $4,000 worth of LN hand tools.


----------



## CL810

+1 What *Scotty* said.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I was mostly goofin about the "big fat cheaters."

I honestly don't care if people are totally galoot or power crazy. I just try to push myself and find ways to work that I enjoy. The power tool alternative can be less laborious, but isn't always a lot of fun either (running a bunch of boards through a surface planer). It just expedites getting to the fun part.


----------



## widdle

It's all about cheating ..Whats not cheating?, most of those guys cheat and teach how to cheat for a living..I f you are cutting dovetails and you have to pare, file, sand, use templates, shims, wedges, spit and sawdust to make them tight is that cheating..
Im sure there was tons of handtools fine tuning the joinery…It was a twenty minute video…They didn't wing it and hope that top was gonna drop in…they all ready knew all the legs were goldenand that may hve been the first go…that was no fluke


----------



## widdle

whoops…cheating..


----------



## widdle

Don't get me wrong..I have total respect of the guys that go total handtool…and i lean that way more and more…But unless your gonna fell the tree and mill it from there…


----------



## woodcox

I would think those old timey guys would be in awe of how they were doing it. Who am I to define a purist. I've never heard of an old text quoting "man, his rocks are sharp as sh%#, and someday I'll be back to sitting in the dirt too." cheating? nope. They would have been all over the lectrics and just got on with it.


----------



## Buckethead

I spit on their ancestors' haircuts. 

Since I used various power tools on my build, I'll let them slide… But just this once.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I loved seeing the massively long top drop right down. Room to get lost on that bench, for sure. Good video, thanks for posting, Yo.


----------



## merrill77

I won't criticize anyone for using power tools to build a bench. I certainly did. With 3 young kids and a business to run, every moment of time in my shop is precious…power tools do the heavy lifting, leaving me time to apply hand tools where it is the most valuable (primarily the joinery).

Heck, the main reason I was building a bench was so I'd have something to hold my work pieces in place for hand tool work. You know - the "gotta have a bench to build a bench" problem.


----------



## chrisstef

I liked watching everyone using the different styles in that video. Some stuff was outright unsafe, like using the router horizontally, but weve all been accused of stuff like that. Gotsa ta do what ya gots ta do.

Id be sooo down for a group build of something massive like that. I enjoy those kind of challenges. Requires some good planning and some extra machine power.

Widdle & Tony, get the redwood ready. Ill rent the lull (dibs on driving). Gather up your gear boys, secure some vacation time cuz we're goin goin back back to cali cali, to build the most massive honkin redwood roubo ever.

That would be b!tchin.


----------



## JayT

I don't know that I was disappointed in the amount of power tool & machinery use as much as I was surprised. I fully understand that they only had 5 days and have to save time in a lot of ways to get things done, but I was under the impression when the project was first announced that the goal was to be more traditional about the construction.

The coolest part is that if you read about that week on the Benchcrafted blog, you find out that the massive 16ft bench was intentionally built to be used in a production shop, not as a "look what I can do" build. The bench will be used as a partner's bench by a pair of craftsmen to hand scrape and plane 14ft long lumber. To me, that is the essence of a workbench-a need for a specific type of workholding drives the creation and building of a bench to make the craftsmen's lives easier and more productive.


----------



## terryR

+1000 to the awesome video. I had to watch it twice…ruining our bandwidth allotment for this month! 

The use of power tools didn't bother me…did ya see that HUGE Oliver planer? Sweet tool…even if it has a power cord! Did you guys see that huge circular saw for cross cuts…with the guy in the background constantly holding the power cord as a safety cut off switch! scary.

Widdle, you're right about the 'cheating factor' that involves us all. I mean, don't most of us get lumber at a store and drive it home using gasoline powered vehicles? Or diesel? And I certainly didn't buy a $700 grizzly jointer to just prop up rusty planes waiting for restoration. Although, that is all it has done the past 6 months! LOL

An LJ Bench Build? Huh? Awesome…count me in! Maybe just one bench built by us all…but who to donate it to?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'm sorta proud those benchcrafted boys are Ioweeegians.


----------



## widdle

group build…fun…Was thinkin a few benches…work stations..teams of two..hand tool guys , powertool guys…I got the beam saw and corbel saw….

I just watched it again…I wonder if the power tools were in shwartz"s pre game speech ? they show him..Than a bunch of guys looking at eachother….


----------



## terryR

Widdle, I get it…

We all show up with wood and tools, build and party for a week, and everybody goes home with a roubo! schweet.



Edit: I volunteer to make a wooden Roubo girl with blue hair for props…


----------



## widdle

Something like that..lumber could be ready and acclimated when thee show up..Bring a few tools, and one specialty tool…if neede for your stations task ? A roubo, a traditional, a joinery a moxon, one like yours, i dont know the names…But they all ha ve tops, legs and hardware…


----------



## theoldfart

Slow down kiddies, my bench isn't even close to being done! When it is done Santa Saws kicks in, grand kids need stuff. Jus' sayin' ; sort of enlightened self interest.


----------



## mochoa

I love that hand held bandsaw they used to cut out the DT mortise in the top. That was a sweet tool!

Yeah 5 days! You need some powertools.

Check this out yall. Now I need me some wooden hand wheels.


----------



## waho6o9

For those interested in a Moravian Workbench:

Props to Will Myers et al.

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/wMyers/art/morBclass/morBclass-01.asp


----------



## mochoa

Oh wow they did a class on the bench. nice!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mac did a solid job on that bench, very nice.


----------



## JayT

For all galoots, a different perspective on the French Oak Roubo Project from Ron Brese.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Too many 'power tools' in that video, too. ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Another one to look at
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/87653#comment-1632950


----------



## lysdexic

Kevin, his bench does look solid as a rock except it is on wheels. They have to shift around - no? But I have never tried it first hand and could be wrong.


----------



## theoldfart

Scott i agree with you. I'm not sure the wheels would be workable for me. I intend to make a two wheel cradle to shift mine around. My cellar floor is uneven and i think dragging the bench would splinter the bottom legs even if I chamfer the bottom edge. I was impressed with the workmanship.


----------



## BillWyko

I attached some squares I cut up from a Teflon cutting board & screwed them to the bottom of my 4 corners. It sits still when pushing tools over a project but it will slide when given enough pressure. A perfect balance between movement and sitting still with no splintering.


----------



## theoldfart

Good idea HM


----------



## BillWyko

Thanks, cheap too. Got the cutting board at TJ Max for 6 bucks.


----------



## theoldfart

As i retire them i save them. My sharpening stones are mounted on one!


----------



## BillWyko

I run them through the drum sander until they are useless.  The one I used on the bench was about 3/8" thick, perfect for the application.


----------



## JayT

Anyone remember this pick up from a couple months ago? I am planning on making a bench on a bench, a la Lysdexic's and am going to use this for the Moxon style vise.










Well, I started work on it by ripping the jaw faces square and was a little surprised by what I found.










The guy I bought it from thought the wood might be mahogany. It is most definitely not. Anyone here able to identify wood species from crappy pics? I have a very strong hunch what it is, but wanted some other opinions.



















It is a hardwood and the vise came out of a mill in Rhode Island that was built in the 1850's

Here is the only end grain shot I've got. Not very much to help, but I don't want to cut off any more of the original piece than is necessary.










Guesses? I can try to get better pics, but photography is not one of my strengths. I suppose I could always send some of the wood to Smitty for better pics.


----------



## Buckethead

I'm not very familiar with it, but I'm guessing hickory. Also, the moxon vise is a superior option for joinery IMO. No need to eat up more valuable space if you don't have it to spare.

I love the wooden screws. Beautiful.


----------



## JayT

Don't think it's hickory-not heavy or ornery enough. My little old Craftsman table saw didn't really have any issue cutting through the nearly 3 inch thick piece. The pieces are lighter than a similar sized piece of ash or oak.


----------



## shampeon

Something says "beech" to me about the grain, Jay. Just a guess, though.

Edit: I meant "birch," not "beech." Durp.


----------



## donwilwol

I was thinking birch.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm stumped…


----------



## JayT

Looking up on Wood Database, birch is a very strong possibility. I wasn't originally thinking that, as the only birch I've ever dealt with was from Colorado. It looked a bit different and none of the trees were large enough to produce this size of lumber. Birch species in the northeast must grow quite a bit larger in diameter.


----------



## terryR

JayT, that's going to make a sweet vise when you're done cleaning it…awesome find!

If the wood is from the 1850's it's dried considerably. The current weight may be mis-leading when trying to ID the sample.

Sorry, but I've never worked Birch, so can't vote yea or nay. Looks tight grained and slightly reddish? Beautiful vintage wood is my guess.


----------



## theoldfart

A DIY bench top kit!









8/4 Red oak


----------



## JayT

^ Some assembly required!


----------



## theoldfart

A bit!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Buncha oak in the back of my Toyota = a good day.


----------



## CL810

Check out Steve Miller's site for interesting posts about the French Oak Roubo Project. Tool chests, sawhorses, and more.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Good stuff OF!


----------



## Buckethead

I found myself in my local woodcraft store this evening… CL just wasn't yielding results in my quest for an adequate handsaw for the dovetail tenons at a depth of 4". I picked up a Japanese saw so I could continue on. It was deliberate that I did not get a more aggressive saw, as I need to slow down a bit. Not so much in terms of being less productive, rather less hasty.

Admittedly, I wished for a more aggressive tooth pattern mid cut, each time. The saw does cut very nicely. It is not an expensive model, but it seems to cut as well as my more costly Veritas dovetail saw. Cleanly too.










I did not think I would like the handle configuration of these saws, but oddly, (to my mind) they seem to influence a steady and straight cutting motion. Mine is undisciplined, so the influence is welcomed.

And the rest of my catch tonight. (I might have bagged over my limit, but the game warden was nowhere in sight) ;-)










So now I have everything needed to complete my bench, with the exception of time.

So who among you knew that a couple plastic handled beater pig stickers…. Errr….. Composite handled mortising chisels could be so pricey? (North of $35 apiece) I know everywhere I looked on ebay, folks were proud of their Pigstickers. So here are mine. I can't wait to try them out buuuuut… 4:00 AM beckons, and I don't think I will play anymore tonight. I'm working in about a 16" space between my junk, and the darling wife's car, (Raining) so it could be time to roll em up. (That's framer speak for the hoses and cords, e.g. "Time to go" ... for those who might be thinking along other lines… Shameful. ;-)


----------



## Buckethead

TOF… A good day indeed. The oak looks so good on the benches, that sometimes I wish I had taken that route.


----------



## theoldfart

Bucket, I've the great grandaddy of your chisels! You'll love them, no gentle hammerin', just swing away.
I've not worked red oak before and the stuff is heavy. I'll probably rip it outside. Don't have a scrub plane yet so I'm wire brushing down real well, then planing it.


----------



## Tugboater78

Hey peeps! Been a while, twas a rough 21 days w/o my LJ fix but I am back. Looks like everyone has been busy. Lovin the Bondo poses. Looks like some good progress from AF and a few others. What's up with the attempted inlay on Maur' s bench? Hoping to get back to work on mine with some freshly tuned Stanley 5.5 blades Don had sitting in my stack of bills and birthday cards cards and other mail.


----------



## Momcanfixit

!

Had this done for a month now. Love love love having it to work on….


----------



## Buckethead

That is an excellent bech, Sandra! I hope my comes out nearly as well.


----------



## chrisstef

Nice to see ya back on terra firma Tug.

Sandra you been holdin out on us over here. That's a wonderful looking bench! Kept it Canadian with the Veritas vice?


----------



## merrill77

Sanrda - Nice looking bench! I bet you're really enjoying it.


----------



## Momcanfixit

Not Veritas, but from Lee Valley. I'll check on the brand.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Welcome back Tug.

Beautiful work Sandra.


----------



## waho6o9

Sandra rocks


----------



## mochoa

Welcome back Tug. Glad you liked the inlay. ;-)

Great job Sandra! I really like it.


----------



## lysdexic

From Lost Art Press:


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice, indeed. His (duaghter's) cherry bench had to move out to make room, I guess. Wonder if this new one will take the spot under the window?

Totally separate topic, but I'd venture to say the conclusion to his post on buying a saw stop probably embodies much about him that people find distasteful.


----------



## mochoa

Schwarz bought a Saw Stop????? I'm just not even sure what to think about that.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's the rub, Maur. He concluded the post by stating no comments would be accepted because he didn't want to hear what folks thought one way or another.

There's no inherent right to comment, of course, but it just reads kinda weird.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ ya, the "p.s" was a little much. But with some of the ridiculous comments he gets….. it's got to get old.

Actually, until I got on LJs, I didn't realize there was a good chunk of folks who don't care for Schwarz's writing. I've noticed a correlation with people's time and experience in the craft. Meaning, people who have been at this longer tend not to care for his work.

I like most all of his work. But I like that style of humor as well. I've learned a lot from his writing.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah, I'm no Schwarz hater, I like his writing, but if you were to ask me who would probably be the last person in the world to buy a saw stop, I'd probably say Schwarz.

From what I know of his woodworking methods, or at least what he has made us think, I'm not sure what he would use a table saw for, much less use it so much that he would need the safety of a saw stop.


----------



## theoldfart

I think a few of the near misses at the French bench build got his attention! I do like the guy and his sometimes obtuse opinions . His work is the biggest thing that drove/ enticed me to hand tools. The few times I've corresponded with him have been very encouraging.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"...until I got on LJs, I didn't realize there was a good chunk of folks who don't care for Schwarz's writing."

Exactly, same here.

There's a cult of personality surrounding him that I don't believe he aspired to, and that would definitely get old. He's just a guy that works wood, teaches, and writes about what he's learned. He gets the lion's share of credit for beginning my bench and hand tool journeys, no doubt.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well, there you have it. Schwarz was the catalyst for each of our hand tool journeys.

Maur- I don't know. Like most of us, I'm sure his work habits are ever changing. But he has written more than once, when he gets questioned the amount of power tools in his shop, he says, "I like all tools." I think it's cool he knows how to do it both ways. I learned a very efficient way to make mortise and tenon joints with a dado stack and mortising machine from Schwarz. I make every m&t joint that way now.

I'm not surprised he bought a big power tool. I'm a little surprised he was able to get past the economics and politics he mentioned in the blog. And I haven't read the stuff about his latest bench. Got some readin' to do.


----------



## chrisstef

That's kinda gonna look like my bench. Damn you beating me to the punch Schwarz!

My influence, as funny, sick, and twisted as it may sound …. has been you guys.


----------



## widdle

I have been onsite for two or three skillsaw accidents and a couple tablesaw accidents…I actually feel a bit stupid that i dont have one….


----------



## JayT

I'm definitely not a Schwarz fan, but am not a hater, either, he is just kind of there as far as I am concerned. On the other hand, when I was researching bench designs, guess whose name kept coming up with articles and plans for a variety of different designs? The only other person that had anything out there for public consumption was Paul Sellers.

No matter how you feel about the Schwarz, from groupie to outright hater, you have to admit his writing has put a lot of information out there for woodworkers and drawn quite a few people into the hobby/craft.


----------



## woodcox

Dragon Speech Recognition doesn't sound appealing to me either.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah, I think its important to remember that Schwarz is not a professional woodworker and he still changes up his approach from time to time which is what we all do.

He is a great writer and that's what makes him entertaining but can also rub people the wrong way.

I like him because he is pretty much a hobbiest woodworker and his work methods are closer mine. At least I thought so.

However, I've been subscribing to Paul Sellers Master classes. I highly recommend them, that's been my biggest influence lately when it comes to hand tool work.


----------



## theoldfart

Woodcock, sure you don't mean draggin'?


----------



## donwilwol

What exactly do you mean by he is not a professional woodworker? I'd disagree.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"There's a cult of personality surrounding him that I don't believe he aspired to"...

My last note about Schwarz. Despite the knuckleheads, I still like reading the comments on his blog because some of his responses are priceless. This one about case construction had me laughing to tears:

Comment: Thanks for the great tips. Now what do you do when you feel like your own carcase is out of whack?

Schwarz:
1. I poop myself.
2. I try to fix the racking with the back assembly.
3. Try to get the drawers working anyway by planing the drawer selectively.
4. Contemplate using "side-hung" drawers to compensate.
5. Clean up the poop.
6. Go for "slack" drawers that have been worn down.

Ahh…..furniture maker humor I guess.


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## mochoa

Don, I say that because I don't think he calls himself a professional wood worker in the sense that he lives off of selling his woodworking. Of course he makes money off of selling some pieces and off of teaching woodworking. But primarily he is a professional writer.


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## donwilwol

Does he write about anything but woodworking ? I didn't think so, but I guess I just assumed that.


----------



## RPhillips

Question: How should I cut my oak 8×8x8s?

I'm referring to layout not technique; how can I cut them to best utilize the size? I know that most bench tops are fabricated from 2" thick lamentations, Should I follow suit, or would it be better to go another direction?

My thoughts as of writing this is to go with the 2×4 layout


----------



## lysdexic

Rob,

If you are talking about the bench top I'd be tempted to cut/rip them into 4×8" and glue them into a 4" thick top.


----------



## theoldfart

Why not 4×4? Less cutting.

Edit make that 4×8, one cut less waste!


----------



## donwilwol

I'd go 4×8. Why not?


----------



## widdle

4×8 sounds cool..Sorta depends on what size bech your building, and the straightness and how much material you have..?


----------



## JayT

+1 on the 4×8's and then glue together. Nothing wrong with some extra size and weight on top (of the bench guys, get your minds out of the gutter). If you cut them down to 3in thick, you'd just be wasting a bunch of lumber.


----------



## mochoa

How many 8×8's do you have? If you have 3 of them there is no reason to limit your size to 4, you could go thicker if you wanted to get crazy. If you try to split them down the middle its not likely you will get a full 4" top.


----------



## donwilwol

oh wow, and 8" oak top. That would be awsome. That wouldn't move when planing!!


----------



## chrisstef

That wouldnt move being hit by a cadillac at 8" thick.

Im working with finished dimension 5"x5"x76" and fawk me theyre really heavy bro. You could take em down to 4"x8"x8' (or whatever final length). Use the off cuts for stretchers. The stretchers dont really need to be any particular thickness, just the tenons gotta fit. Just pay attention to the front one if youre going with a sliding deadman.

Thats my opinion.

Also … Woodmizer. Seriously.


----------



## shampeon

An 8" thick benchtop is sort of absurd. Like, Scarface-mansion absurd.


----------



## widdle

id ripem with a belt sander..and stucco the legs..final answer..


----------



## Buckethead

LOL, Widdle!

Best. Suggestion. Ever.


----------



## merrill77

I think Schwartz has a lot of good things to say about bench design. Between his 10 Rules of Workbench Design, his Kitchen Door Test and the chapter Matching Features to Function, I was inspired to completely re-think my workbench design. He's done more to further the body of knowledge in this area than anyone in recent history…maybe more than any one single person. I don't think he's right about everything, but he is certainly very knowledgeable and had put a lot of time and thought into the topic. I guess I'm a pretty big fan. His other writing is generally entertaining, as well.

My workbench design would would be greatly reduced in usefulness without Schwartz, John White's New-Fangled Workbench and Google SketchUp.


----------



## woodcox

Anyone find one of his bench books more influential than the other? Difference betwixt the two? 
I sampled one of them, forget which. I decided on a design that could be taken apart using trestle horses as a base. I initially needed something simple for a top, easy to build and functional. I'm at the go big or keep my fingers in my pockets point. I need a more functional/traditional plan for heft(thinking big oak)as the dfir is lighter than expected.
Plus I need the challenge. 
I do like his writing. Which book first?


----------



## RGtools

^The red one had more benches in it and is kind of an update to the blue one. The one drawback, no details on the Nicholson in that one.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I've only got Schwarz's first bench book (blue one). And even though it only has the plans for two benches…it's a great read. The first chapter helps you sort through the mire of design vs. function.

"The Workbench book" by Scott Landis is very good as well. Think I got it used for like $10 shipped on amazon.


----------



## merrill77

I got the most value from the first book (blue). But I don't regret buying the second…well worth the $$s.


----------



## donwilwol

I like Swartz's woodworking style. I like how he does a lot of his projects. I REALLY *don't* like his writing style.


----------



## mochoa

I have his second book and its probably the best book out there on bench building IMHO. (I haven't read his first book so I cant compare). Scott Landis book is also great and worth picking up. I also got it used on ebay or Amazon, cant remember.


----------



## RPhillips

Are you guys following pre-made plans, making you own, or just winging it. With this being one of my first builds, I would like to find some plans to follow. Any suggestions. I'm going with the traditional French oaks style Roubo. I'm sure I could draw up my own plans, but I know that will come with some costly mistakes. Was t sure if any of those books you guys mentioned had plans included with them. I like the WW bench, but Unfortunatly the cost is keeping away from that one.


----------



## mochoa

But then again you also need Roy Underhill's book to read about the Splayed Leg Roubo! ;-)


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## mochoa

Schwarz' second book has a chapter on building the Roubo by hand.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The second book was a response to critics of the first book who insisted it 'didn't have a bunch of bench designs in it.' For a disclosure, I have the first, built a bench, and haven't bought the second. What I know of that blue book, and I've read it more than a dozen times, is the foundation it lays in your head for what a workbench should do.

There's one chapter in it (Ch. 4, maybe?) that's dedicated to presenting routine bench tasks along with options for holding the work for each task. First time I read it, the stuff was way over my head as I was quite the workbench / handtool nube. Second and third time, too. But then it started to sink in. I trusted 'simple is better,' built a roubo-type bench and haven't looked back. Avoided work-holding approaches that seemed 'gimmicky' and I'm glad of that, too. As Schwarz says, it's about working the faces, ends and edges of wood. If the bench can't effectively hold stuff for each of those tasks, re-think your approach. And simple sure strikes me as faster, too.

My .02…

EDIT: The blue book has roubo plans that I used as a basis for my bench build.


----------



## merrill77

@Smitty - IIRC Chapter 3, "Matching Features to Function", is the one.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

And there you go! Thanks, Merrill.


----------



## theoldfart

I have both, since i've been planning this bench for some time now. I'm semi following his second book Roubo build. Ypu can get both books as ebooks to save some $ and print out what you need. 
I HIGHLY recommend both books. You don't have to follow them religiously. I am doing my own thing, however as Smitty said above:
it's about working the faces, ends and edges of wood. If the bench can't effectively hold stuff for each of those tasks, re-think your approach. And simple sure strikes me as faster, too.
++++1 on that.


----------



## JayT

*@RPhillips*

Are you guys following pre-made plans, making you own, or just winging it

Kinda did all three. I used pre-made plans for a basis to draw my own plan on Sketchup and then during the build had to wing it a few times.

the foundation it lays in your head for what a workbench should do

And this is why. I don't have the book, but did read a few excerpts online from it and then read Paul Seller's blog, as well. Between the two and the list of frustrations from my previous utility bench, I designed the new one to meet my specific needs.


----------



## chrisstef

What Smitty explained about the blue book is exactly what I took out of it. That one line. Bench needs to do 3 things essentially. Hold work on the face, edge, and end. If it cant do all of those its no good.

As for how im building … im wingin it. No plans just random thoughts bouncing around an empty skull. Im slow so things have a looong time to marinate upstairs.


----------



## RPhillips

I have to run out and pick up my new glasses (some asshole stole my $400 Oakley Bob Burnquist-esque glasses from work) and I'll stop into B&N and see what they have to offer. Found both the Blue and Red Schwarz books on amazon used around $20 each.


----------



## mochoa

I'd say my design process was:
-Read every book out there on benches
-This causes analysis paralysis for a while
-Then I basically let the materials I had on hand/found dictate what I would build from all my top bench choices
-Find a sketchup model that is close
-Modify it to my liking 
-Then reference bench build process/flow from available plans and apply to my design


----------



## donwilwol

Mine was my typical project, no plans, lots of books, planning in my head, start it, finish it, go.


----------



## JayT

Sure, Don. Just a second.

Mine was my typical project, no plans, lots of books, planning in my head, start it, *let the elves* finish it, go.

There, fixed it.

Actually, I do a lot of planning in my head, but have found that for some things Sketchup is handy to actually see parts of project I don't have enough experience with to visualize correctly. As I get more experience, it is easier to visualize and less has to be put down on paper or in megabytes.


----------



## Buckethead

All these Schwarz posts are BLOWIN' UP MY BEEPER!
My ongoing build was carefully planned and thoughtfully conceived. So far,I have consulted zero books, found out that sketch up isn't supported by apple products, I bought a set of plans for zero dollars, from no one, but I did see the pretty pictures on the innardwebs. So I'm making it up as I go. Oddly, my thought process has been to be able to work the face, edge, and end of a board, without actually having articulated the thought in words.

I also want the bench to be beautiful.

As for Shwartz, I never heard of him prior to my joining this forum, but I have since watched a couple vids featuring him and others. He seems okay to me.

I don't really like the rock star thing, but I'm not sure that reflects poorly on Schwarz. Hero worship is caused by hero worshipers, not by the supposed hero.

I guess ima hafta read sumpm he wrote.

(Disclaimer: I will be consulting shipwrights blog for instructions on the wedge powered leg vise.)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

There's really no "hero worship" for me when it comes to woodworkers like Schwarz, Maloof, Stickley….and on. They are/were men like you and me. I'm just glad the time to write down much of their knowledge of the craft so I could learn from it.

I could have come to many of the same conclusions Schwarz and other did about benches…..after building several benches…lots of trial and error. When I built mine, I really "took his word" for several of the design aspects. And I haven't regretted one yet.

Rob- as far as plans, I think it depends one your comfort/skill level. Early on I stuck to plans…..until I was comfortable enough with my knowledge and skill in joinery and design. Now I do kinda like Don does. I look and books and pictures…..let it bounce around in my noodle a bit. Then I just build it.

Enough babbling…..I think I just psyched myself up to start my joinery bench.


----------



## Buckethead

I hope I didn't come off as pompous there… I certainly wasn't insinuating that any here were groupies. My comment was more toward the larger perspective of the cult of personality and the potential effects to all involved parties.

I think most here are neither haters nor groupies. It's part of what makes this among the best forums on the webbernets.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sorry for some of my fragmented sentences. Sometimes I have a toddler pulling on my leg.

Buckethead- nah…I didn't really take it that way. But I have seen a lot of comments on this site to the effect: Your either totally with the Schwarz…. or against him. I appreciate what he does, that's all.

Got the timbers milled and ready for my benchtop this afternoon. Mostly power tools, with some hand tools where they excel.








Scrubby scrubby. 








The time saver. Power planer was next(no pic).








Hand joint til the edges mate well.










2" thick white oak. 30" deep. Not the prettiest stock, but should make a good joinery benchtop. 









I'm open to any ideas and input. I don't have the design totally worked out in my head yet. Some of the inspirtation comes from Tolpins joinery bench. It's 9' long. It will have 6 legs and a moxon vise. Lots of drawers and storage below. That's all I know for now.


----------



## Buckethead

Red, you don't BS around, do you…

I massaged the stock for my bench for a couple weeks before I had the nerve to put blade or knife within ten paces of it.

You said you want to build, and build you did.

I think your joinery bench is a great idea. I'm not tall, (5'6" ... Might as well own it) but I think a bench top approaching 48" would be a comfortable height for dovetails etc… I'm looking at the bench on bench moxon setup due to space constraints, but a separate bench would be ideal. I also like the shelf setup in the last photo. Tools directly within reach, while still organized and protected.


----------



## chrisstef

Red might be the most motivated ba$tard ever. Ohh hey ill build a bench. 2 posts later theres a top. Hell yea.

9' is a lot of bench. Gonna go twin vice obviously. Moxin vice as stated. Sound like you got room for one more set up.

Lets talk joints. (Breathe held) Here.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I've never lacked in motivation. I've got other faults….ask my wife

I should say, it's not glued yet… just clamped to test the mating of the edges. Maybe next day off.

Joints? I'm thinking just some rectangular through mortises like your making Stef. Roubo dovetailed joints would look funny on a 2" thick top. Then, just pegged mortise and tenon on the stretchers.


----------



## shampeon

Breadboards drawbored to the tenons with oak pegs, and the top is ready for the aprons. One nice thing about making your own pegs on a lathe is that you can add a taper before parting off and make the tops slightly larger to fill any gaps in the hole.


----------



## lysdexic

Really nice Ian.


----------



## Airframer

Red - You are a braver soul than I to embark on a second bench build lol… Looking good so far!

Ian - Very nice!


----------



## donwilwol

Lot of cool stuff here. The only problem with this thread it makes me want to build another bench just to build a bench.


----------



## chrisstef

Do it ^


----------



## waho6o9

Clean work Ian. I like the symmetrical placement of

the draw boar in the narrower parts of the top.

Looks great!


----------



## terryR

+1 to what Don said…You guys are killing me with drawbored breadboards, huge timbers, completed benches with drawers underneath! LOL

I've purchased over 100 sticks of lumber the past week…but it's all coming together into the shape of a chicken coop instead of another cool bench. bummer…

Where's that Big Red dude, I bet I'd be done already if He were here.  Or if I had a nail gun…


----------



## RGtools

Ian, That is a great tip. Thanks.


----------



## donwilwol

one of my finds today was a vintage wood leg vice nut and screw. What to do with it?


----------



## chrisstef

Moxon Don. Moxon.


----------



## JayT

Don, fate and picking has determined you should build a new bench with that vintage leg vise, whether you want to or not.

Ian, that top is looking fabulous!

Red, way to knock it out. I dream of someday having a shop big enough for a single 8ft bench, much less a Roubo and a dedicated joinery bench. At least I can live vicariously through you.


----------



## donwilwol

Stef, a one screw Moxon? Need more info!!

JayT, if only I had room. My shop is already cramped.


----------



## Buckethead

Don… A very rare CL post came up last night. I noticed it about 10:00 pm. I emailed, but decided it would be rude to call. I wrote that I had to work, about 2.5 hours drive away from my home today and would call as soon as i was back in town. I had spousal permission to pull the trigger….







Asking $650

There was more… I was about to post the listing, but he has taken it down. A guy bought him out this morning.

I'm entering a serious depression.


----------



## shampeon

Don: How about if you turned the leg vise horizontal to make a one-screw Moxon?

Thanks for the kind words, everyone.


----------



## donwilwol

Ian, I'll have to do some research.

Buckethead, that's a bummer. While walking around a guy approach me and ask if I was a plane collector. He lives not far from me and has 15 flattop bedrocks he wants to sell. He's suppose to email me. We'll see.


----------



## widdle

Wow.. Looks like you limited out Don…


----------



## widdle

Reddog..What's up with a joinery bench..Taller with a large front vise, ? Curious what gets done at a joinery bench as opposed to your other bench ?


----------



## Buckethead

Airing dirty laundry.



















Tear out, layout changes, indecision, dull chisels.

My new sweethearts seem to have dulled after a few uses. I resist taking the time to learn useful sharpening methodology, I guess because time has been very limited lately. I want to build more than I want to sharpen. I'm guessing this single leg took me about two hours to get to this point. I cut very close to the lines, and it seems like my chisels tend to remove more material than I want. I'm thinking I should be using a shoulder plane to clean the tenon/tail up. No can do. Can I justify another trip to woodcraft to buy a wood river shoulder plane on the single day I'll have to play? Nope. I'm not overly excited about that particular plane anyway.

So… What to do? Spend a day trying to put together a sharpening system? Nah…

I'll say this… If I had a bandsaw, the galoot points would be out the window.


----------



## lysdexic

Widdle-

That's right. A lot of folks design the workbenches with hand planing in mind. That's great but the height for hand planing leads prolonged stooping over when doing detailed work.

A joinery bench is higher to bring the work piece closer to the eyes and allow you to stand straight. A front vise is commonly used to hold the piece for edge work ie dovetails.

A Moxon or bench on a bench is another means to the same end.


----------



## widdle

Lysdexic..makes sense, your set up looks clean and usefull..Was curious what other thoughts Red had with the 6 legs and 9" feet long.Sounds like alot of bench..


----------



## RPhillips

I just ordered a few of the items I need to get my work bench going. Man what a slow process, I need so much stuff to even get started that it seems like I'm never going to get there. I went ahead and ordered a Lee Valley screw for the wagon vise. Also got a 1/2" mortise chisel, some more sandpaper and a few files to keep everything sharp.


----------



## chrisstef

Don - i was actually thinking that you got enough length (easy scotty) to cut it in half for a twin screw. Not sure what kinda hub it need to mate with but if anyone can do it Yoda can.

Bucket - one of the smartest things ive done in my short woodworking career has been to take the time (months while my son was just born) to go and sharpen and tune every hand tool i owned. Planes, chisels, and now im on to saws. My gear is almost to the point where its grab and go. Its hard to keep up with the action around here but dull tools will only serve to frustrate you and your work more. Its a lesson in patience grasshoppah.

Lys - your moxon gives me movement.


----------



## donwilwol

*Stef*, I'd be short one nut! I knew a guy like that once. Don't want to be that guy. But seriously, I don't see making a nut in my immediate future.

Any of you guys wanting/needing a leg vice interested in it? I have no idea what its worth but know I don't have much in it.


----------



## chrisstef

Id have a real hard time not calling that guy (plumb) Bob lol. I bet hes got no problems finding center. I bet scotty's got a bunch of prosthetics he could hook ya up with he rocks em Benwa style

PM forthcoming on bob.


----------



## lysdexic

Widdle - I can not speak for Rojo (primarily because I am not man enough), but lets me say that my Moxon/bench on a bench is kind of a pain. It is heavy. It gets in the way and you have to move and store it.

I'd much prefer a dedicated joinery bench with room to spare. Who wouldn't.

In fact, just to the right and out of view, I have 8' work TABLE that is 48" tall. I'd like to modify it as a dedicated joinery bench. The idea is to put a skirt on it and move the Moxon vise onto it. Someday.


----------



## terryR

Lys, I think you're the first person I've read talk dirty about the supposed, beloved Moxon. Or a bench on bench.

But, I agree 100%. Mine is much uglier than yours since it uses Borg threaded rod, and crescent wrenches for handles. But it's so heavy and cumbersome, and in the way unless you store it 30 feet from the bench…then ya gotta walk 30 to go get it…rant…rant…whine…whine…

It's probably an awesome set up for a small shop, but I'm waiting for Red's joinery bench (and hopefully YOURS, too) so I have a good one to emulate on my build. Soon as the chicken coop and planeswap are taken care of…


----------



## donwilwol

I know, dual post, I'm not completely sold on the idea of selling this, but I'm not sure I'd ever use it, and I already have a few request. Anybody have any idea what would be a fair price?


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## Buckethead

I think the screw is very cool. I saw a guy making wooden screws and nuts on YouTube with an old bottle cap and a pine cone. (I might be slightly exaggerating… He was making them with the most rudimentary of home made tools)

It was awesome, and I want to give it a go someday. This could be used to that end, sort of a head start.

Also, it would make a really cool leg vise. I'm already verbally committed to the wedgie, but this is tempting. As far as price, I dunno. Between $10 and $200.


----------



## mochoa

Don from what I've seen those usually go for around $50 on ebay.

What is the diameter of that screw?

+1 on looking forward to seeing Red's Joinery Bench. I might be inspired to make one out of Pine 2×6's.


----------



## mochoa

Buckethead, if you get inspired to make a screw Carter's and my (conjugation?) bench build blogs would be a place to start reading about it.


----------



## Buckethead

Conjugation correct! When in doubt, drop the "Carter" and if it is right, ("my blog") then it works with the compound subject.

Thanks for the tip as well. I find wooden screws facsinating, and would it not be galootish to make my own for a leg vise? Why yes… It would! Would that be worth an extra 1.5 galoot points? Even forgiveness for having used a jointer and thickness planer?

Edit: are you wearing nylons in the photo?


----------



## donwilwol

its 2"


----------



## theoldfart

38 postings since I last looked! Just got in from the Schwarz class, I'm beat. Great class post some pics later. Picked his brain and got some answers. The guy's good. Now I go to sleep; two 12 hour days Haven't done that since my shop days many moons ago.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks for the grammar lesson Bucket. I suck at grammar. Those are just regular socks man. Lol.

Just between us girls, if you use his method to make the wooden nut (I do it the same) and use my method to make the screw, you'll be alright. You'll avoid a lot of the frustrations I had with the thread pitch not matching.

Don, since its 2" it might be a little less than $50 I'd say.

Kevin, what was the class about?


----------



## mochoa

Thanks for the grammar lesson Bucket. I suck at grammar. Those are just regular socks man. Lol.

Just between us girls, if you use his method to make the wooden nut (I do it the same) and use my method to make the screw, you'll be alright. You'll avoid a lot of the frustrations I had with the thread pitch not matching.

Don, since its 2" it might be a little less than $50 I'd say.

Kevin, what was the class about?


----------



## theoldfart

Six board blanket chest, almost all hand work. Time got short so some table saw work was used. Even used rose head nails.


----------



## mochoa

I'd love to have a joinery bench with a vise like this!


----------



## mochoa

Sounds like a good time Kevin!


----------



## Buckethead

Nice setup indeed.

I'm thinking I could go wedgie on the leg vise and build my own moxon with homely-did wooden screws.

In other news, I got hasty again. I saw a sharpener on CL for $50. I jumped, as I did not want to miss out on another good deal. It was a woodcraft product, so it had to be at least decent, right?










I haven't found any scathing reviews, but neither have I found any ravers. I don't know what "grit" (?) the stone is either.

So I'm going to start off by sharpening my TP knives. It came with the jig, which seems nice. 420 RPMs. It's a sign from Jah.

Hoping this turns out. Well.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Kev- Oh….how I would've traded you the last two 12+ hour days on the railroad for 2 days in that class

Ian- that benchtop does look sweet. Your a bad MF'r (that Millers Falls joke never gets old for me)

Don- sell that sweet wood vise with the condition they have to post the build here.

Buckethead- Rather that give you tips about sharpening, reading grain…ect. ect…. I just encourage you to persevere. It's growing pains. We all have, and do get frustrated like that. If it were easy…it wouldn't feel like such an accomplishment.

My joinery bench: Don't give me too much credit Widdle There's not a lot of method to my madness. You probably remember I had a crappy looking 10' bench on my shop back wall that I stuck in my new shed. Somewhat seen in this pic:








So, reasons for joinery bench:
- I have the space. If not, I would just make a moxon like Scotty's
- I really miss the "counter" space I had. But I would like nicer storage below. 
- Persoanally, I drew the line on power tools at dovetails. I will either learn to make dovetails well by hand…or I won't make them at all. 
- I need a tall work space for my genetically cursed back. 
- I didn't want to just put cabinets back there. Seeing Tolpin's joinery bench sparked an idea!

As as far as the size. I happen to have enough 8/4 white oak stock in the 9' length…. so 9' it is 
6 legs? I just think the 2" thick top would sag over an 8' span. So I'll put 2 more in the middle.

My plan is to get the basic bench built and in place. It shouldn't be near as involved as my roubo. Then take on a big commission I've been putting off (2 morris chairs and a love seat). Then I should have enough cash to pay for the moxon vise, slides….and everything else for the cabinets below.

I'm always amazed people give a rip about my little shop. But it's fun to share the ride with you guys.


----------



## chrisstef

Bucket - Dat's a whirly girl. Jah.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, posted a couple of pics in the state of the shop thread.


----------



## RGtools

Don, I agree with Mauricio on price. That thing is in better shape than I thought.


----------



## RGtools

Red, that is a great set up you have. Kind of jealous of the way your layout works. Mine can be a bit of a headache to deal with, but over the past few months it's gotten so much better.


----------



## Boatman53

Hey Buckethead… Someone over on WoodNet just posted about that machine. He made a disc from MDF to fit in place of the stone, glued some leather on the disc for a power strop. Says it works great.
Jim


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks for that, Boatman! Sounds like a simple project I could pull off without too much fuss.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ Sounds a little like what Lj stumpy did with the worksharp here.

I've never used a power sharpener, but I would like to have something like that just to flatten the backs of plane blades.


----------



## widdle

^ i hear ya on the backs of the vintage chisels and irons…Time consuming…


----------



## Boatman53

I have a Makita one, but same style. Never had much luck flattening backs. Hard to get it on the stone flat without swirl marks or favoring a corner. If there is a trick please let me know. 
Jim


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ Allegedly it helps to get a foot pedal power switch. Makes sense to have both hands available to steady the iron.


----------



## shampeon

The trick I've found with the disc sharpeners for chisel or plane iron backs is to pivot them on the edge and then down flush against the disc. Takes a little practice to keep the chisel/iron parallel to the surface, and you will get swirls on the back where it pivots, but it does work.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"I can not speak for Rojo (primarily because I am not man enough)"

I don't know Scotty. Sometimes I sit down when I pee. It's just so relaxing…..LOL


----------



## dbray45

Time is getting close to make a new bench. I am hoping to get some red oak in the next week or so. The boards are 6/4 thick, 15" - 20" wide and about 8' long (may have some 12' boards) and 4" x 4" posts. They have been air drying for about 8 months and still have a good bit to dry. The process will speed up in my basement where I have a good dehumidifier. The boards that I have gotten already (and one 3' long 4" post) had some good twists and warping when I got them. Now they have straightened out and are settled to 5% MC. This will take about 3 months for the boards I get next week.

The top, or what is planned, will be 2 boards wide at around 38" and an additional board laminated under the top to double the thickness for a 3" thick top.

Any thoughts?


----------



## terryR

Hey *Ryan*, wasn't it you that built the front porch bench from pressure treated lumber?

Curious since I want an outdoor bench to place in the shade for summer work. Did the PT wood give you any headaches or other physical symptoms while mortising?

I've been purchasing so much 'select grade' lumber at the Borg lately, I noticed they have large beams for sale…treated wood only, though.

Anybody else work much with PT pine? I want a massive wood bench that won't rot. Maybe just a few coats of black paint?


----------



## AnthonyReed

Terry I think that was Brandon wasn't it?


----------



## terryR

Thanks, brother, Tony. I think you are correct…

I shoulda reviewed YOUR post on proper push broom usage last week…got a blister on my girley hands from pushing the broom incorrectly!


----------



## AnthonyReed

My displays of ineptitude are never to be used as a form of guidance…..


----------



## RGtools

I local lumeryard of mine sells 4×12 pine in 16' lengths and it is free of pith and surpisingly free of knots. Sounds like bench material to me. One beam = one 8' benchtop.

That's math I like.

Edit: not MY lumberyard…I wish


----------



## terryR

^That's real sweet math, Ryan!

One beam=benchtop;
One beam=4legs and leg vise.
(and how much for shipping, sir?)

LOL


----------



## WhoMe

"I'm always amazed people give a rip about my little shop. But it's fun to share the ride with you guys."

Red, all you are going to get from me is pure envy. For you guys that nave ROOM in your shops, I am so green with envy that I think the Irish tap my blood to color their shamrocks…

Which reminds me, I need to take a picture of my Garage/junk pile under the roof/shop and post it in the 'state of the shop thread' just for laughs.


----------



## RGtools

Not sure they would ship.

But instead of going to lowes try scouting out your local industrial building supplier, that's where I found these. Just a thought I have had over and over to myself that I thought I should share.

*WhoMe* My shop is pretty small too…what is yours like?


----------



## Mosquito

WhoMe, at least your shop has concrete floors


----------



## DonBroussard

@terryR-I built my workbench out of PT. I had the materials on hand, so that's what I used. No problem with milling and mortising, but I did use a dust mask during dust-generating operations, and I used hand tools where it made sense to do so. I've also built a fireside table out of PT.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

This afternoons progress on the joinery bench. Took a page from DonW's shop and had the elves do the layout work. We've never seen his elves on camera…but we all know they are there. 








Started edge gluing..one at a time. I got most of my Jet k-clamps "free" as a promotion when I bought my machines. Otherwise, I would be telling Jet to stick them where the sun doesn't shine. I've had a lot of trouble with them slipping. Very frustrating with wet glue. 








Mortise time. This machine is too slick not to use. Good enough for Stickley…good enough for me. 








There's my top. When you make the mortise prior to gluing, you have to be mindful of your layout lines each step of lamination.










I go back on-call tomorrow, but I'll probably start the legs. Apologies to galoots offended my my power tool usage or work pace The had tool work is coming.


----------



## JayT

Looking good Red. I'd be worried about getting the mortises to align during glue up. Did you leave them undersized so that any alignment issues would be taken care of during final fitting?

Cute elf, BTW.


----------



## widdle

That's gonna be nice red..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'm just trying to secure my spot on the roster if Widdle ever hosts his benchathon one day. I could be a valuable asset if we tried to knock out a few benches in short order

Jay- As long as you make nice layout lines, and glue up in phases, it's not to hard to keep you lines straight. Take my roubo for example:








Of course, I re-drew this line after planing it. I did that glue up in groups of 4. 
But let's say by chance I get off by a smidge. When I get the legs installed, I'm just gonna make the stretcher/aprons custom fit (story stick style).

As far as fitting the tenons. I always make machine made mortise slightly under-sized, and tenons slightly over-sized. Then, the hand tools come in to get the right fit.


----------



## widdle

Ok im Down..lets do it..All are welcome..Would be fun..I ll set up the shop and backyard…August 2014..Venice ,Ca benchfest…Come for day , come for 5 days..Whatever…

red im glad you answered the way you did….Speaking for myself ,I get caught up in over analysis/paralysis, As others on here may…precision is great, do the best you can but dont get stuck on squares and tape measures..no matter how well we mill and layout. stay a little small where needed, a little fat on others..A little fine tuning at the end a
nd you'll be golden… just go for it…


----------



## jmartel

Can I play?










Some assembly required.

Picked up about 105 bdft of red oak from someone off of craigslist today for $160. Not the best score, but pretty good. I originally wanted the ash he had, but he sold the lot to someone else before I could get there. All nice and clear. I think there was maybe 1 knot in the entire pile. 72" lengths, which is about what I wanted the bench to be anyway so it works out. I'll lose some to squaring off the ends, but I might just make it up with breadboard ends.


----------



## widdle

^ Stoked..That looks like it will do it…


----------



## jmartel

Unfortunately, it's all 4/4 stock. So, lots of laminations. I haven't fully decided on if I want to make the legs/leg vise out of something else contrasty (likely walnut or sapele) or just go with the red oak.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Widdle- Benchfest, you know I'm game.

"precision is great, do the best you can but dont get stuck on squares and tape measures" 
True dat. It's interesting though, the precision of hand tools….they can make up for a lot of things imprecise. I used to work really hard at getting the precision I wanted out of power tools. Now I just get it close, the fine tune/custom fit with hand tools. I enjoy this approach.

dbray45- missed your post earlier. Sound like you've got a pretty good plan. Share the build with us here.

jmartel- buck fity a board ft for oak is always a good deal. I will be some extra work laminating, but that bugger will be strong and stable.


----------



## shampeon

Nice work all around, everyone.

Red: guess the simple through tenon idea went out the window, eh?

jmartel: nice score. If you work your laminations correctly, you can design in through tenons with shorter pieces of oak.


----------



## Tugboater78

I need some elves, to get my shop in some working order, so i can finish up on my bench. Spent all day cleaning the shed out trying to find my rip fence for my circ saw to rip out the pith on the 6 2×12x16(already xcut to ~8") SYP for the top of my benchtobuildmyrealbench, i still haven't found it. once i get my new smart phone in the mail I will take some pics for the stateoftheshop thread with my newly acquired tablesaw, and share my current headache of trying to find a spot for it. I may end up having to build another shed, just for my lawnmwers…

probably could use the tablesaw for the rips, but my back is mending, and the saw is heavy and has no rolling base yet. and to rip an 8' board u need at least 18 ft, and total exterior length of building is 20'


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Shamp- those are old pics of my roubo build….as an example. Sorry to confuse. The joinery bench is going to have the simple through tenons.

Tug- I was already thinking another shop expansion might be in your future


----------



## jmartel

Thoughts on pros/cons of a tool well? Centered between 2 12-13" laminated slabs. I figured I would have an insert that sits flush with the slabs when the tool well is not in use.

And I consider the 2" thick 10"+ wide and 8ft long cherry slabs that I got for $2.50/bdft a good deal. The Oak was about what I expected to pay for someone off of craigslist.


----------



## CL810

*Widdle* - I'm in. 2nd week of August is good.

;-)


----------



## widdle

Ok..Sounds good, a little momentum…









Shop stereo..


----------



## chrisstef

Nice tunage ^


----------



## terryR

+1 on needing elves to clean and organize the shop! Justin, roll the lawn equipment outside, buddy.  Wife says I can build a new shop after this chicken coop and add A/C! Yee haw! I'm not sure she was serious, though…

jmartel, YES on the tool well. Especially since you already know how to cover it flush when you want.

widdle, what's that little square thingy next to your shop speaker?  Hey, you have room for an F-250 to camp in your backyard next summer? That's my toolbox, and tent!


----------



## widdle

Terry..Thats my phone..I got music on there…As for the f250…Mabye, deprnds if i lose the driveway.Hard to explain, But we'll figure something out..


----------



## carguy460

You know, Missouri is pretty close to the center of the country…if only I had a bigger shop and some acreage, I could host one heck of a bench party…but I dont…so carry on with your West Coast madness…


----------



## widdle

Ok, Carguyy's in..


----------



## TerryDowning

widdle,
Where in LA ? It's a big lace for those that don't know. (Larger even than some of the North eastern states) I'm up by Magic Mountain.


----------



## Airframer

More of this going on..










One complete end cap down 1 1/2 more dovetails to go and I can call the top done…


----------



## AnthonyReed

Right on Eric.


----------



## Buckethead

Looking fantastic. I admit I thought it odd that you built a saw bench mid stream in your bench build, but after a bit of experience, I definitely see the value. That is a really nice way to manage your pieces, and will remain a useful shop addition even after your big bench is complete.


----------



## theoldfart

Gettin' tired of saying good job so Good JOB et al. This compliment is good for the next thirty days, by then I should have something done. ;{


----------



## RPhillips

what's a good source for holdfasts?


----------



## Mosquito

I like the Gramercy holdfasts I got from TFWW


----------



## SamuelP

RPhillips- Find a local blacksmith and give them a design. Easy to make and usually pretty cheap. I paid $40 for my set and they look cool.


----------



## widdle

Terry Downing..Venice..


----------



## TerryDowning

Ok, so not too far from me (30 mins to 3 hrs depending on traffic over the pass)
Count me in for next year's bench-a-thon. (As long as SWMBO doesn't have any other plans)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Venice…I never surfed before. It can't be much harder than snowboarding

Rob- a lot of us have the gramercy holdfasts. Can't go wrong with em. But a local blacksmith would be even cooler.

Eric- More sweet handwork. With a saw you made if I'm not mistaken. Notice the lazy government employee(you), and union worker(me), are the only ones get work done on our benches…..lol.

Got a little shop time today. Started by training one of my elves with the chisel and strop:








The handwork starts. Took a rasp and got those mortises clean…and slightly tapered. 








Leg pieces start like this:









Hit the jointer and planer…end up like this:









Next, I'll get those tenons to fit with hand tools…and glue up some legs. Just like in Schwarz's first bench book, the tenon will be created by laminated a shorter piece to the longer fitted tenon.


----------



## Airframer

"Notice the lazy government employee(you), and union worker(me), are the only ones get work done on our benches…..lol. "

I Know Right! I guess it is easier since I am only working 12 hour shifts and working most weekends lol.

Honestly I spend most my time at work thinking about the next step of the build. This gets me all worked up to do some work on it just to clear that out of my head to make room for more steps lol. It's a vicious cycle really.


----------



## theoldfart

*Red*, tapered top down? And by how much?
Also do you rent out the elf? I've nicked the strop twice already (great shame)


----------



## Buckethead

Okay Red… I spy that little Jet jointer/planer (8"?) over by the wall in your fist pic. Then I see the macking grizzly in the subsequent photos.

Did you buy the Jet first, and become dissatisfied? I read some tough reviews on that machine and I did not pull the trigger. I did want it though.

Any thoughts to share on that?

Oh… And I have been working on my bench…. Albeit slowly. I spent two hours hacking with a hand saw today and made precious little progress. Rethinking the no power tools build. ;-)

Still, I have no power tool capable of a 4" deep cut other than a saws all. Perhaps I'll keep that thing away from the joinery. But then again, I do have a Prazi beam cutter.










Rough, medium, fine… Right?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Eric- mostly givin guys crap. A lot of my posts are just goofin' But, as I've said, my job is very hobby friendly. I get good chunks of time at home. And a lot of "on-call" time…..which I spend in my shop….with the phone hooked to speakers.

Kev- ya my little elf put a few nicks in the leather. Not a huge deal. They fill with honing compound somewhat. But I can always get you a new chunk of leather. 
Taper? I always taper through tenons slightly. Maybe in the 1/16"-1/8" range. It's most crucial that the joint is very tight where you can see…right Well, you can make the entire joint snug, and not bust out the sledge hammer, by tapering the mortise a bit. Then, taper the tenon a bit when you shave it to fit.

Bucket- Did you buy the Jet first, and become dissatisfied?
Exactly. The amazon reviews tear it apart…and rightfully so. Jet should be ashamed. Long saga. They sent me an entire new machine. Same problem. Jointer beds aren't co-planer…with no way to adjust. It works decent as a planer, and that's what I use it for. I can't wait to replace it. It's the only machine I compromised on…and regretted it.


----------



## Airframer

Red- I hear ya. 90% of my job is either getting or giving someone crap for something so I definately picked up on that.

Just doing my part to help motivate some of these slackers we have here :-D


----------



## shampeon

Interesting way of doing the through-tenons, Red. For a wedged tenon, you taper it at the top slightly and then pound in the wedges to fill the gaps, making the joint sort of dovetailed.


----------



## mochoa

Red, I love the progress s shots of your bench. No apologies needed here for the power tool use. 
I like your work flow. Have you ever considered dowels to help with alignment? 
I think I could live with a jointer and no table saw. I need to get a jointer one of these days.

Martel, Oak makes a great bench but I hope you have a nice power jointer, and get you a gallon of glue because that's going to be a ton of laminating.

Eric, the DT's are looking clean man, getting better every time.

Bucket you have that beam cutter? What are you waiting for man crank that Mo Fo up!


----------



## WhoMe

RG, ask and you shall receive. Here is a pic of my shop..er…garage..er..junk storage space.








Even with the car out, room is tight. I do have a table saw in there(on wheels) on the right behind the drill press. Most of the other tools are housed in cabinets on the left. And you can see my clamp collection and wood rack over on the upper right. Behind the rack is another clamp rack with 8 cabinet clamps and f clamps of various sizes. In front of the car is a Rigid 4512 planer in its box and a 22 gallon compressor. That is along with the yard tools, plumbing, tile tools, general storage, 2 mobility scooters, compressor, bags of post cement and on and on and on….....
ANd the best part is that this garage, a laundry room, and part of the back of the house all run off 1- 20Amp breaker. Luckily, the breaker panel is semi close by to reset the breaker…

Eventually, I hope to add a 55A/220V electrical sub panel, build new and better cabinets for tools, hardware and so on. Build a table saw cabinet/router table on wheels, wheeled Planer/mitre saw flip cart and the drill press on wheels too.

Mos, yea, it may not have carpet but it has plenty of spiders, cockroaches and other buggies to deal with. 
Besides, I would think carpet in a workshop would be "LUXURIOUS" ....lol

Now you guys can see where I get my green with envy mood…..


----------



## Mosquito

until you have to sweep shavings 

I will say, though, I am rather spoiled with the forced air for my heat and a/c


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mike- that shop is screaming for a shed It takes a while to get a good shop set up. If it's your goal to have a nice shop and progress in woodworking, I'm sure it will happen for you. Til then, a fella has gotta work with what he's got. In the beginning, I built some decent furniture on 2 sawhorses propping up on an old door.

It is hard not to get caught up in "the grass is always greener" mentality. There are a dozen detached shops (Morton buildings) within 2 blocks of my house. They all put my shop to shame. Maybe one day I'll have one…maybe not. Til then, I've got a 2 car garage in an average sized house…..but Imma make dat baby one nice shop

Mos- My garage shop has heat and AC as well. I tapped into the house vents awhile back…hehehe.


----------



## RPhillips

Here's another addition to the "stock pile" 

Ill probably use this for legs, it's ~12×12x48, so that'll leave with about 5"-6" legs. I have two or three more that I need to snag from work before they get tossed out.


----------



## chrisstef

What they heck would that be used for? Cribbing? Crane pad?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ I spy with my little eye….the box from your new bandsaw.


----------



## RGtools

*Mike* Sharing shop space with other things is tough. My shop has it's issues, but at least it is a mostly dedicated space for getting work done. My first shop was NOT so fortunate. You can still get a ton done, but figuring out a space for the non-work items will make your life a ton easier.

It only gets better from there. Keep at it.


----------



## RPhillips

@Red Yep, you spied right. That's my new Craftsman 14" band saw, got it for right at $300. Hopefully it will give me my moneys worth at least. Don't really have a whole lot of confidence in the Craftsman brand, but for the price, I said what the hell. Next is a fence and a couple good blades.

The wood was used for shipping/rigging heavy industrial equipment. I work in a small Refinery and we are installing some new equipment, so I tried to gather all the wood I could before they chucked it all out. Got a couple more pieces that I hope to grab soon.


----------



## chrisstef

I love rigging. That was my favorite thing to do when I was allowed to play in the field. Heavy iron, awkward machines, and the smell of 2 stroke in the morning.


----------



## theoldfart

Ain't much that a seven foot pry bar can't move. The machines I worked on in the shop were some 40-50 feet long. Buggers to move, align and level. Had to within a few mm's.


----------



## CL810

Had to move a 3,000 lb. machine once. Jacked it up and put bearing casters, I think that's what they're called. Easier to pull than a child's red wagon. Having the right tool for the job is a blessing no matter what you're doing. Moved a lot over the years with just pry bar, jack, and 3/4" black pipe for rollers.


----------



## RPhillips

So this is the results of my first "planing session". Lol

Man, my arms are feeling it. Good thing the wifey just bought me a bottle Knob Creek to help ease those aching muscles…


----------



## theoldfart

Rob, i see a lot of shavings and a real nice timber. Congratulations and remember Advil, Aleve, and Ibuprophin!


----------



## Mosquito

man that timber is massive…


----------



## chrisstef

Surprised it didn't move around much on ya while planning. (sarcastic face)


----------



## RPhillips

At first I thought it was Oak, but once I removed the outer layer, I'm pretty sure it's not Oak. No to find that thread on here about identifying wood species. Regardless what it is, I'll be using it. 

Actually, the arms don't feel that bad, haven't had a good work out in a long time…


----------



## AnthonyReed

Awesome Rob!!


----------



## lysdexic

I'd just keep that monster timber on those saw horses and call it done.

This is going to be interesting.


----------



## donwilwol

that's one big chunk of wood.


----------



## theoldfart

Red or Eric, how dry was your oak when you built your top? Don't know is it makes a difference, i'm using red oak.


----------



## Buckethead

Rob, are you going to resaw that on your new bandsaw? That'll take a minute or two…. Or better yet, go with the handsaw.

Soon enough, you'll find yourself with pigsticker in hand, ready to gouge some mortises here or there. You might be concerned about accidentally dropping your new, sharp pigsticker on the concrete floor. Don't even sweat it.

You can do like me… Just wear some slaps while you're working, and if the chisel drops, catch it with the top of your foot.

They must call those things pigstickers for the amount of blood they draw. I should have snapped a shot, because my people love them some injury shots. Alas, I was slightly preoccupied as I did not want to get blood on my darling wife's side of the garage.

As I changed the bandage, I saw that she nearly went back out again. (The fatty tissue on the outside of my foot)










Did I just hear a giggle?










So the moral of the story is this: don't drop your mortise chisel from a sufficient height to fully penetrate though your foot, because this will Blunt the cutting edge. If you are over a wood floor, I suppose there is a decreased risk to the chisel.

So after I cried for a few minutes, and went to the store for some strawberries and bandaids, I finally finished cutting the dovetailed tenons on all four legs. I found the last one going reasonably quickly. Such is life.

I've decided that I'm not a fan of the Japanese pull saws. My 14TPI Veritas dovetail saw was a faster cut, and cleaner. Initially I didn't notice much difference, but I fount that it worked best to cut to full depth with the DT saw, then finish with the pull saw. It would have gone far better (faster) if I had a tenon saw (of equivalent quality) with 4" cutting capacity.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Rob- I'm sure that bandsaw will serve you well. Craftman doesn't make it's own tools anymore. All contracted out. So you probably have a Rikon or something like you suspected. You might need help sawing that timber though

Kev- never put a meter to my bench lumber. I don't have one. But it had been air dried in my lumber guys shop for 3-4 years. IMO, you can fudge on the moisture level when it comes to a bench. More so than furniture.

Boring you guys with my build yet?
Fit the tenons today. Little taper like I described:








Not bad for a drunken Irishman:








The lamination will go on the inside, creating a shoulder. I oriented all of the ugly faces of the boards inward to be laminated. 








Spent the afternoon gluing up the legs in pairs….and tuning some planes. I don't have a plan for the stretchers yet. But I'll come up with sumpin.


----------



## Buckethead

Red, your mortise looks far better than mine. Very clean work.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

OOUuchhh Bucket. That looks like it hurts. I work in sandals all the time…..should I think about that?


----------



## Buckethead

The pain wasn't much of a factor, but the blood….. Like a bad horror flick. No tendons, no arteries, no bone. Saul Goode.

It would be a real bummer to lose a toe…. :-O

That's like going to prison for parking tickets. No cool points awarded.


----------



## theoldfart

Bucket, did you deliberately catch the stiker wich yer foot? Like in making that split second choice; floor/foot?


----------



## Buckethead

That pig sticker is not among the upper echelon of pig stickers, but since I paid over 35 for it, I figured the foot would heal.

It was quick, and my left foot was planted. There was a better option, which was to maintain control of the chisel. If only I'd thunk of it earlier.

So I have work tomorrow night which amounts to running the 10000M relay. Hope this doesn't hinder my performance.

I'm going for the Gold.


----------



## theoldfart

Well, be careful. That cut is deep and your performance will suck if it infects! BTW I can see myself doing the same d$mn thing with my favorite sticker even with the rubber mats in the shop!


----------



## widdle

Good save bucket.
Red..1 deduction from the russian judge…


----------



## widdle

On a serious note..Does it not bother you guys with the through mortises, with wood movement sometimes there flush other times not ? and what are the benefits ?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

your mortise looks far better than mine. Very clean work.
Well of course I'm gonna show you the best one A few of them will need a small wedge.

Does it not bother you guys with the through mortises, with wood movement sometimes there flush other times not ?
I haven't had the through mortises protrude on my roubo yet. If they did, I would probably plane em down. I'd rather they be recessed part of the year than protrude. 
The benefits? Like any of the A&C joinery….I just think it looks cool. I'm sure a well-made traditional m&t joint is just as strong. The strength of the m&t joint really comes from the shoulders.


----------



## Airframer

I would think that if the joint is tight enough and you draw bored them well enough the movement in the tenon would be minimal at the most. Add some glue to it and there should be no movement in the joint… of course I am not an expert at anything regarding wood and wood movement so take that with a grain of salt.

Home front note.. no progress today.. had to take the boy to the doc for his first round of vaccinations today.. I got to be the bad guy who served him up to the needles.. that was fun.. said no one ever.

I also found out today that I am being sent out of town for a week at the end of this month. My deadline just got moved back a smidge I think… piss….


----------



## RPhillips

@*BH* Ouch, that had to hurt! yeah, I have me a 1/2" pig sticker on it's way here from LV, hopefully I can keep mine out of my foot tho.

Well I'm guessing that the wood is Beech…looks like heartwood, cause the color is much more of a brown.


----------



## widdle

Sounds good…I suppose if they weren't glued…They would break down easier if need be…


----------



## widdle

Af..If you have any boxes or drawers at the house, you will notice that different times of the year they move.

"dovetailed boxes or drawers"


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^tis true. I have breadboards on several pieces of furniture…it moves.

and Rob…good news. Beech is excellent for a bench.


----------



## Airframer

I understand that wood moves but I was just figuring that if one added glue and pegs into the picture that would stop said movement in that specific area. It makes sense in my head.. then again so does Dr Who…


----------



## shampeon

I think the amount of movement in even a large through-tenon in a workbench would be very minimal. The tenon wouldn't move longitudinally in any real way. It would be the top moving tangentially, exposing or hiding the top of the tenon. And that would be very, very slight in even the very thickest tops.








Source. Also note that the percentages are for drying green wood, not seasonal changes.


----------



## Buckethead

That is a great visual, Shamp. Usefull.


----------



## chrisstef

I think what Widdle meant to say in his post was:

"Af..If you have any boxe*R*s or drawers at the house, you will notice that different times of the year they move."


----------



## chrisstef

and bucket …. stitches bro. If you can see the white stringy things … stitches.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ehhh….keep it clean…it'll be fine


----------



## Buckethead

On the jobsite the recommendation is to have your better half soak it in cider.

I think that is too sugary.


----------



## RPhillips

^^^ maybe some Woodchuck Cider…


----------



## Tugboater78

pour some Shine on it!, pure…not cut and/or flavored


----------



## RPhillips

Seeing as I am still new to all this, how can you tell if you are having "tear out" when planing? And what do you do to remedy it? Are dull plane irons the culprit? Going against the grain?

Looks to me that I am having a little tear out, hard to tell for sure but I can feel a difference in the surface when I run my hand across it. Not sure if it is the grain in the wood or what. I'm going to sharpen my planes tomorrow and give it another go and see if it gets smoother.


----------



## RPhillips

double post


----------



## waho6o9

Grain switches directions as well, welcome to the learning curve.

I'm learning with y'all.


----------



## widdle

I would reccomend, taking your square and a sharpie….Mark 1/4" either side of the cut…Square those lines all the way around soo you dont forget about 'em…and get back to work…


----------



## Buckethead

Rob, I had the same problem with a couple pieces of hard maple. It was the grain. There was a bit of interlocking grain which I just had to plane from opposite directions. That worked to a degree, but in the end it worked far better to sand those spots out.


----------



## shampeon

Going against the grain will definitely tear out. Swirling grain will also tear out. Sometimes it'll tear out with the grain because it hates you and everything you stand for.

A sharp iron helps some. A tighter mouth (but not so tight that shavings can't get through) helps some. A canted plane helps some. A higher angle plane helps some. If you've got an extra iron, put in a 10ish degree back bevel to raise the effective cutting angle.

One thing I've learned is that, if tear out is unavoidable, don't worry about relatively shallow tearout until everything is level and square. Then you can take care of it with cabinet scrapers or a high-angle smoother.


----------



## waho6o9

" If you've got an extra iron, put in a 10ish degree back bevel to raise the effective cutting angle."

I did that and it works. Thanks for the friendly advice. This place rocks.


----------



## RPhillips

Ok, cool that's kinda what I thought was going on. Unfortunately, I have no extra irons at this time, but i will sharpen them up at bit pending a shipment coming from Lee Valley.


----------



## donwilwol

I agree with whats been said about tear out. I now have several scraper planes as well. Making a 60 degree plane is also on my to-do list but these all worked fairly well.


----------



## donwilwol

and see Derek's post on the topic as well on this thread, http://lumberjocks.com/topics/51505


----------



## Buckethead

Well… I did not know the purpose of a scraper plane. Now I do.

Cool site… Cool members.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sometimes it'll tear out with the grain because it hates you and everything you stand for.

And that's why Shamp is one of my fav LJs….lol

Sometimes it feels that way. Tearout is part of the learning curve on handplanes. There are chapters of dedicated to it. A lot of the solutions have been addressed. I would also add….planing lightly cross grain (different angles). 
Eventually you will start to "feel" when the plane is about to grab or tearout. And you just try to minimize it until finish smoothing….where a scraper or high angle plane could come in handy.

Also, tearout is one of my justifications for having at least 30 different hand planes ready to go at any time


----------



## donwilwol

not sure if its been mentioned yet, but wetting the area with mineral sperits or water can help tear out some as well.


----------



## RGtools

^I have used grain alcohol for this as well.


----------



## theoldfart

Ryan, when you say you have used grain alcohol a couple of scenarios come to mind …...;{


----------



## Buckethead

Great minds think alike.

It seems that grain alcohol could easily reduce the psychological stress resulting from tear out.

"What am I doing wrong?"

~Add grain alcohol~

"Ahh… Never mind. It's all good… No one will notice."


----------



## theoldfart

Pretty much


----------



## terryR

Hey, while we are discussing planes on the workbench forum…

I could use some advise…Which plane is best suited for 4-squaring a scrap piece about 4/4 thick, but only 3×5". Something the size of a marking gauge fence. I tried an 18, a Dan sharp 65, a no.4, a no.5…nothing seemed to take shavings.

I was only using a planing stop, should the work piece be secured better? My planes kept chewing up the first 1/4" of wood…yeah, I know a 24" long board is much easier, then cut to desired length. But, what about the ton of cut offs we all have? I ended up just gluing sandpaper to mdf, and 4-squaring the wood with that. Lots of time…and dust.


----------



## chrisstef

I like to fall back to my #3 for those small tasks Terry. Im not real good at it but its what I use.


----------



## Mosquito

I also use my #3 for something that size. Though I have been known to grab my #5 1/2 anyway lol


----------



## dbray45

I use a #2 size plane or a shoulder plane


----------



## chrisstef

Hmmm, could you clamp a #5 in your vice and run the wood over the top? Reverse planning.


----------



## Buckethead

Power jointer.  Table Saw :-o


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Believe it or not, I've used the #8 on small pieces just to get the longer 'approach' and ensure a continuous cut on the piece. For whatever reason, a low-angle jack works well too. I do like Stef's anchor-a-jack solution.

Either way, yes, secure the piece a different way. Maybe an end or leg vise, even the center of a Workmate (ack! did I just say that???) would be a decent set-up that helps truing such a small piece.


----------



## RGtools

I would use a light touch with my no5, but that plane and I get along well.

Not that I have tried this, but have you tried to carpet tape it direct to the bench? Might add a bit of lateral resistance.


----------



## terryR

All good advise, guys, Thanks! Will try to secure the small pieces better using vise or double sided tape. I found some awesome carpet tape from McMaster-Carr, Stef's fav shop. 

Stef, I'll also try the plane in the vise trick upside-down. I keep forgetting that trick…don't have a No.8 yet, Smitty, but gonna try the No.7. Hand powered jointer!

No pieces shorter than 12" go across my power jointer…just sayin'


----------



## RPhillips

I guess if I would have started on my plane for the swap I'd have a 60 degree smoother plane to try, but I wanted to get my bench finished first so I'd have a place to work. Oh, the unavoidable catch 22.

This piece of timber measures out just under 12×12, so I figured that I can get four 5×5 legs out of it. now I need my files so I can get my saw sharpened and get on with the show.

Cutting all these big timbers by hand is sure to be a sight!


----------



## chrisstef

By hand Rob? .... that'll add some inches.


----------



## donwilwol

Terry, I would lock it in a vice horizontally so it sticks up enough to plane and use a #2 or #3.

I'd like a video of that 12×12 going into quarters by hand. That's some drive you got there Rob! You and Ryan, better men than me


----------



## shampeon

Don, maybe a time lapse video. Unless you like 10 hour single-shot art films of a guy sawing wood and taking frequent breaks. I don't judge.


----------



## donwilwol

definitely time lapse…........


----------



## RGtools

That makes me sweat even with a 4 point. Pit saw, if you have a friend to help….but even that is a good amount of work. Use different sawing positions as you go or you will wear out one muscle group way before you are done.

I broke down and got a bandsaw for that kind of stuff. II think that is the most hand tool friendly power tool out there.

I think I have a resaw video I can time lapse…I will go through my stockpile.


----------



## mochoa

Bucket, that looks painful man. Is that going to need stitches?

+1 on 10degree back bevel on the smoother. I have it on my #4 and works a lot better for tear out.


----------



## RPhillips

Unless i come up with a better plan…hand sawing it will be. Don't worry, I'll be sure to make time for some photo ops.


----------



## chrisstef

Can i get "Eye of The Tiger" in the background Rob?


----------



## theoldfart

Rob, your'e going to cut that behemoth by hand? You get the "most ambitious man award"! Since at 5×5 you'll have extra wood i'd suggest cutting a kerf with a skill saw first, that way the hand saw will follow the kerf SOMEWHAT. Really wanna' see pics maybe even a video. Go get'em tiger!


----------



## lysdexic

Rob, I think you need to find someone with a bandsaw that has 14" resaw capacity. If that is not possible then Kevin's idea is right on. Circ saw all four sides as deep as you can then finish by hand.

Edit: once you saw it in half, circ saw the two sawn faces to make it even easier.


----------



## mochoa

I say we start a pool on how long into that rip cut Rob changes his mind about doing it by hand? I say 10mn. ;-)

Just kidding Rob, I'm rooting for you.

On another note, I got these friggin' awesome wooden dogs from Widdle!

















When he said he was going to send me some wooden dogs I was sure they would be cool. But what he sent me was the Cadillac of wooden bench dog! Not only that he sent me 8 of them!

I'm constantly humbled by the generosity of so many Lumberjocks. I don't know if I'll ever be able to pay forward everything I've gotten but I'll try. Thanks Widdle!


----------



## lysdexic

Those are cool. I'd arrange them from lightest to darkest. Just sayin'


----------



## DonBroussard

@widdle-Good on ya!


----------



## theoldfart

Widdle, right on man!


----------



## waho6o9

Widdle's the coolest


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Ditto. Amazing community we have here.


----------



## widdle

Waho69..That's definitely pushin it…

mauricio..Do they stay put ? let me know if they dont..thanks..


----------



## mochoa

Widdle they all stay in place perfectly. Any issues I do have are from the way I cut one or two of my holes. Otherwise they work great! Thanks again brother.


----------



## terryR

Widdle, those dogs are awesome!
Please tell me how you made the lil springy part.
A tiny spring? A curved piece of wood?

Or if there is an article online, just point me there…
THANKS!


----------



## theoldfart

Widdle, +1 to Terry comment


----------



## benjii

First post … I wish I has seen this thread when I started my bench.

I've built it to the point where the base and top are assembled, but since I wasn't certain how I wanted to do the vises and a few other things I let it sit. This is about what it looks like now:









Questions - 
I've got 2 face vises that I was going to use - one is a quick-release and one is not. Which one would you put where?

The top is 4" thick, so the top of the vise face will be 1-3/4" down from the top of the bench. For the front vise, I'm thinking of chopping a mortise just enough to recess the vise face and cover the surface with a leather pad. I've seen them recessed further though, but I'm not sure of benefit. Not sure on the end vise. I've contemplated doing a full-width dovetailed end breadboard piece, so that could complicate things. I'll come back to that one.

Chops - I've got some ironwood, but I've never worked with it. Any reason not to use it? I'd like to have the chop extend 4-5" past the vise face and would make it a few inches thick to be stiff enough.

I'll stop with the questions for now.


----------



## donwilwol

*Ben*, if you take a look at my shop photo's you can see where I put mine.


----------



## shampeon

I'd put the QR on the front, non-QR on the tail. You'll use the front vise more.

As for the ironwood, that's a very, very hard wood. I'd worry about marring the surface of the pieces unless I had some leather on the face.


----------



## JayT

+1 to shamp's advice on both the vises and the ironwood.

There are definitely advantages to having a flush surface the length of the bench for the front vise, less so for the tail vise. The ones you've seen recessed further are probably so that a piece can be added in front of the iron vise jaw to prevent marring. On my bench, the front face is completely flush the length of the bench and there is leather on the chop only. Others put leather on both the chop and the front of the bench.

Edit: I also routed out a recess on the bottom of the benchtop so the top of the vise face is much closer to the top of the bench. This was mainly for ease of use of the built in dog. If yours is going to be that far down, you will probably need to make the chop taller and drill out a dog hole.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

See, I'd rather have a quick release on the end vise. My reasoning- when the end vise is used, it usually has farther to travel with varying lengths of boards. 
On my front leg vise, I usually only work boards from 1-2"thick…which is just a couple of turns on the vise.


----------



## tworavens

Holy. Effing. Crap.

I just finished reading this whole thread.

All (at this point) 6700+ posts.

It took me 2 weeks, but I have done it. And I am inspired. While I unfortunately don't have the space in my current house (renting, share it with 3 housemates) for a decent bench, I'm in the process of buying one. As soon as I have my own place, I will be building a bench for my new shop.

Fellow LJ's, you have galvanized me. I still have no idea what I'm going to make as far as bench style is concerned (torn between a regular Roubo and a Roy Underhill splay-legged Roubo), but dammit, I'm going to build one!


----------



## mochoa

Ben, sweet bench man!
Putting the QR vise on the end is not a bad idea either though. If you think about it you will do less adjustment on the front vise which mostly holds ¾" boards or so.

There is more adjustment on the end vise because the length boards varies more than their thickness.

Josh, go for it man! As you have probably seen, Mos has a splayed leg Roubo in his apartment so there are no excuses.


----------



## chrisstef

Josgh - you read it all and made it out alive. Kudos for that. Careful round these parts, been known to change a man lol.


----------



## tworavens

Stef, you have no idea. I think I needed a bucket to clean up all the drool looking at some of the benches I saw in here.

Mauricio, the problem is that there's already a workbench in the basement that I use. It's made of various things and extends for the whole length of the wall. There's too much junk in the rest of that room for me to have another bench in there at this point, and most of it belongs to my housemates. Granted, I *could* build some shelving units and then have more space, but that's too logical of a solution! (Jeez, why did I never think to do that before??)

OK, you're right. No excuses. Time to start building. This'll be interesting. I'm going to have to switch the sides that the leg and end vises are on, too, what with me being a southpaw. So much to think about…

Edit: The workbench I use in the basement now is made of scrap 2x stock, plywood, etc. It's flimsy, uneven, and far too tall for comfortable hand tool use. So yeah, I do need a new bench…


----------



## theoldfart

Josh, make a platform to stand on while doing hand tools. You could actually make a bench top and clamp it to the current top. Then you'd have an even surface to work with. Use cheap borg lumber and practice working on big glue ups. Stick with it, its gonna be a blast!


----------



## chrisstef

Josh - you could start with a moxon bench top jammy. That would be a good start. Carguy (Jason) wanted to know if you liked Nickleback, its his favorite band. He was too shy to ask. Im not.


----------



## theoldfart

Nickle creek better!


----------



## theoldfart

oops out loud! flame bait…..


----------



## tworavens

Kevin: I had planned on gluing up a top out of BORG Doug fir, just to get some practice flattening it out with my hand planes. And a small stool isn't actually a bad idea, either…Hmm…

chrisstef: I hadn't thought about a Moxon setup. Another very good idea!

For the other question…well…As a homebrewer as well as a woodworker, I view Nickleback the same way I view PBR: Generic, overly mainstream, and not exactly *good*, but it has its place. Usually on a hot day working in the yard while pushing a lawnmower.

Of course, much as a good Belgian white would taste better than PBR for the same situation, some good Viking metal would sound better than Nickleback. However, I'm not going to witch and moan too loudly in either case, because beer is beer and rock'n roll is rock'n roll.


----------



## chrisstef

Josh- sorry about that, I was just messin with ya, Jason's got a staunch view on NB but your response was splendid lol. Good luck on the build, we'll be watching. Ohh and Viking metal … Volbeat.


----------



## theoldfart

Josh +1 on NIckle Back, and not so much a stool as a platform. Your going to be planing long boards so walking back and forth WILL be on the menu!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Holy Crap, Josh! I don't think I could read it all again, and have forgotten most of it probably. 

Need pics of what you have, and where you're headed! And, welcome!


----------



## theoldfart

Anybody notice this?
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/88051


----------



## benjii

I was kind of thinking the same as Red and Mauricio about the vises - QR for the end vise - so that's probably how I'll go. One I bought and one was given to me, so I said why not use them both. I like free - a friend gave me all the maple I used and more.

Maple for the chops then? I've got maple, cherry, ash, and a little oak to pick from at the moment.


----------



## JayT

Maple, ash or oak would all be good for vise chops

Some of where you want the QR vise will depend on your dog layout, too. Either way could be right, just think about how you work and go from there. Good luck and can't wait to see more pics of bench progress.


----------



## TerryDowning

Man that mini travelling bench is sweet! Nice find OF. This is the actual Bench on top of the travelling stand.

Talk about smack down!!


----------



## Airframer

I was just about to post that traveling bench for Josh lol. Good eye Kevin.

Josh.. just remember.. whatever you build in the basement has to come OUT of it at some point so mind those door dimensions lol.. (don't ask me how I know this).


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Back from a little place I like to call Sewer(sioux) City. Mild food poisoning from the hotel breakfast. But I rallied when I got a little sumpin, sumpin in the mail from my buddy Widdle. Looks like I got me some custom made dogs as well. Walnut and white oak to boot. Guess you guys won't have to look at my ugly old benchdogs anymore. 
























Here's a close-up. They're kinda simple, with a thin strip working as a spring. But I'm interested as to how Widdle makes them as well.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, you are a lucky man. Maybe a widdle santa likes you!

Another shameless plug:









Never thought I'd brag about a two incher! On to the mortises! oh yea gotta make the top first. working


----------



## terryR

here is an article I found on creating the wooden springs in the round dogs. Looks like the bevel at the base of the dog or spring is the key…


----------



## widdle

Nice lookin edge ther of..
terryr..Those look nice..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Key- glad the strop is working out well for you. Not much "handcrafted" about a strop, but I thought you guys might like my brand. Maybe I should get one that says "BigRedKnothead".

Terry- good article. Interesting thing about Widdle's dogs, is that the groove is stopped. Either way, I dig 'em.

Little more progress on the bench today. Legs are glued and trued. Trimmed the edge of the top. I wisely took a couple passes with the skilsaw. 








Lieutenant Dan…you got new legs! Even at the pace I work, I didn't think I'd be on to the stretchers in a week. But I guess I am.


----------



## widdle

How did the glue up of the top turnout red ?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The top turned out pretty well. I tried to keep it true as I glued. It'll need some flattening. I really don't care about the underside….as you can see in the pics.


----------



## chrisstef

Friggin Red. While my wife was gabbing away hes conpletely finished 4 glue ups, 2 dovetails, and an end vice installation. Gettin after it big cat.


----------



## Airframer

Something about a light and a tunnel.. I might be seeing it soon  Finished up my last 2 dovetails on the bench today. I also cut the tray bottom to size. Just need to dado the other 2 walls and I can assemble the top finally!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Widdle - You are too cool dude.

"Those are cool. I'd arrange them from lightest to darkest. Just sayin'"- Is it bad that that makes total sense to me?

Welcome Ben & Josh.

Amazing work BRK.

Right on AF.


----------



## Tugboater78

Loving it, got in the mail yesterday, finally got my smart phone again so i can post pics!


----------



## RPhillips

@Red, got a few minutes to spare? maybe you could stop by the house for a few and build me a bench…just saying…I'll supply the beer and entertainment

Nice looking build you got there so far…


----------



## waho6o9

"Maybe I should get one that says "BigRedKnothead"

Good idea


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Rob- I think it would be a kick helping with your bench. But your on your own if your gonna saw those timbers by hand. I'd be dropping those buggers off with a little cash at the local millwork shop

But, as I've said, sometimes I squat when I pee.


----------



## Buckethead

Much going down since my last post. Too much to respond to. I'll just say… I'm overwhelmed by the tripindicular awesomessencationaism. (Look it up… That shiz is in the dictionary)

I'm eager to catch up. Been unhappy with the quality of surfacing on my tenonry. (Dictionary… Again. I don't make up words ;-). )

I mentioned that I was less than satisfied with the cutting prowess of the Japanese style pull saws I bought. That is probably because I cheaped out. My bad. I am going to get some quality hand saws, but those girls are pricey!

This saw rasp is amazing, however. It is making my sloppy saw and chisel work look acceptable. Daddy like!


----------



## RPhillips

Lol


----------



## theoldfart

Rob how goes it with the monstah timbahs?


----------



## DanKrager

Here is Rob at work with a sucker friend… 




DanK


----------



## RPhillips

Lmao! You guys are killing me!

No timber splitting fun yet…I'm still waiting for my files to get here so I can at least wear my arms out with a sharp saw! All I need to do is one cut on the 12×12 then I can re-saw'em on my band saw.

Anyone have any clever ideas on setting up temp re-sawing feed/out feed tables? I'll be rigging up something…some how…some way


----------



## RPhillips

BH, I was going to pick up one of those rasp off a fellow LJ, but it was sold before I could respond. On my short list of need to buy items.


----------



## lysdexic

Buckethead - I agree with you on the Shinto rasp. Very effective.

Rob - I sprung for a couple of these when my local Sears went bust. They are about $25-$30. Very handy when handling long pieces.


----------



## DanKrager

I have found a smooth plate "rocker-mounted" on a roller stand with leading edge low to offer great support without wanting to "guide" the material for you throwing it off track. I've had the roller wiggle under load and begin to track to one side. The balls walk around any irregularities they encounter and cause trouble. The biggest problem of all of these issues is to keep the stand upright under heavy load. An over size tripod and a waxed plate has been the solution for me. 

















For very heavy loads, perhaps a roller transfer section could be borrowed. Even a horizontal ladder with a board on top works surprisingly well.

DanK


----------



## RPhillips

I have a Rigid out feed stand, pretty much like what you have pictured, but wasn't sure how well it would resist tipping with that much weight on it. I'm guessing those oak 8×8x8×8's weigh in around 150 a piece. The ladder suggestion gives me a good idea tho, I have a fold up ladder that can be used for scaffolding and it might work out.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Little more progress on da joinery bench. earlier I alluded to how I mark and make tenons…here's how I do it if anyone's interested. 








Starting with rough cut oak. The dimensions of my stretchers are influenced by cutoffs I have. Ya know, as another woodworker and I were discussing, machining wood is not completely void of skill as some hand tool purists might insinuate. The machines don't just spit out true and square lumber out the other end. There's a learning curve on the power jointer, planer, tablesaw too. A guy can jack up some nice stock with machines in a hurry. Believe me, I've done it. 
Okay, back on subject. 
















Mark the tenons.









I use a dado stack. I don't fiddle much with the blade height/tenon size…whatever looks good. The fence is adjusted for each tenon mark. Some tenons might be a hair longer than others….oh well. 









That's how I made them all. Next I will mark the mortises using the actual tenon. Then I will drill just inside the pencil line with my mortising machine. Last, fit the tenons with a rabbet block plane. Peace out, Red


----------



## CL810

+1 Red on the jointer/planer. Learning how to straighten out cupped and twisted boards is an art worth learning.


----------



## shampeon

machining wood is not completely void of skill as some hand tool purists might insinuate.

I feel that the machine tool guys feel the same way, though, when they talk about how hand tools require you to master them for years to do simple things that take forever, when they can do it in minutes with jointers and thickness planers. Of course, they don't factor in the time spent setting up the machines, reading the grain so they don't tear-out, learning how to put the right pressure on the wood as it traverses the blades, handling snipe, or smoothing the surfaces post-machining to remove the slight scallops.

Apples to apples comparisons still would favor machine tools for speed, but it's not as stark as either side's extremists think.


----------



## CL810

Agreed.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I hear ya Ian. That's why I kinda like learning both ways. I can decide how to do each task by however I feel that day. 
That said, there are some tasks I almost never feeling like doing by hand- thickness planing…and others I never feeling like doing by machine- smoothing.


----------



## Buckethead

I can personally attest to the fact the you can botch your work with hand tools and machines.

I think I'm equally slow using either.

I spent a couple hours trying to sharpen my jointer knives today. Not sure I improved them at all. I'm certain that they were previously set better than what I managed. I incorrectly thought I did a good job of getting them flush to the out feed table… It was noisy and extra tear out. I think one knife is a hair too high.

My Shinto rasp was a joy to use today. I cleaned up my dovetails/tenons on my legs, and also learned that some cuts were better than others. One tail was (is) more than an eighth out of parallel. I'll pare it true tomorrow. I can't believe I'm still massaging this step. I keep redesigning in my head. Analysis paralysis.

Additionally, I played with the Miller Falls 14 I bought from Red. That is an awesome plane. I can't imagine that a Lie Nielsen operates any more smoothly. And despite the poor job I did of setting the knives on my jointer, it seconds as a serviceable work bench.


----------



## Airframer

BOOM!










Just waiting on plugs to dry..


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## Mosquito

Awesome work Eric!


----------



## widdle

wow…Bench looks sharp,...Good job workin the bow outa shelf material..good stuff..


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## Airframer

Question for you guys with ramps in your wells. Did you just miter the ends of a thin board and glue or make a solid ramp attached to the well bottom?

Oh and I couldn't resist trying it with the legs on.. STOKED!


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## Mosquito

I didn't make ramps, so I have no such answer to give.

Just be careful, as this is the stage where progress is very easy to stall, once you have a usable bench ;-)


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## Tugboater78

awesome Eric, she is lookin sweet!


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## donwilwol

Eric, I don't have a tool well but the plans I've seen have been a thin board fastened in. I'm not sure it matters how its fastened.


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## Buckethead

WOWZERS!

Frikkin sweet!

I have that same question, Eric. I'm debating not using the ramps at all. Stick the ol' crevice tool onto the shop vac, and getting dust from the corners is a non issue.

I was also debating whether to take the day off today… Thanks to Eric, no such chance.


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## chrisstef

I feel entirely inadequate after watching your bench build play out Eric. Well friggin done brother!


----------



## donwilwol

Ditto on that Stef, especially with a new born. Your wife must be a saint!


----------



## lysdexic

Eric- also you can build ramps that just sit in place. Not attached. I think HumidorMinister actually had storage space under his ramps. You could put extra dogs and such in there.


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## CL810

Great bench Eric!


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## waho6o9

Awesome bench Eric, oh yeah.


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## theoldfart

Eric, well flippin' done! You out did yourself. Does it double as a changing table for the lil'un?


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## theoldfart

Another good one:
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/88089#comment-1645361


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## Buckethead

Four legs… Top joinery complete.

Shinto saw rasp saves the day.










Now to the grocery store. Come home, eat summing, and get serious about cutting all the other pieces. The wagon vise has not yet been designed, and I haven't given it sufficient thought, but I will just have to retrofit, or even buy the full vise instead of using the screw and designing my own. I should have considered my inexperience with vises before I decided to undertake making my own. Perhaps I still will, but I need to move forward. Airframer and Red have me feeling unproductive, and I do not like the feeling.

I will not become complacent. I will build the bench, I will do so to a standard which I can be proud of. Inexperience is not an excuse for not gaining experience. .... Wait… That was Jack Del Rio's season motto for his last year as head coach of the Jaguars… A pitiful season.

I'm going to work on a better motto once I get the bench done.


----------



## Boatman53

Great bench Eric. Sorry I haven't had much time to hang out lately, but I see what's going on once in a while. I have no ramp in my tool tray and would not want one. I have a little box in the right hand corner that holds some bench dogs and other crap. I really would not want to give up that space to a ramp. A vacuum cleans it out when I need to.
Jim


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## Airframer

Thanks guys but lets not get too excited boys it ain't a bench yet lol.

*Mos* - Thanks for the word of warning. She is still a bit too unstable to really be much use just yet. A couple of the leg tenons are a bit loose and need to be secured before she can really be used for planing just yet so I think I am safe on the front….. I think 

*Don* - Yes.. yes she is. She told me on Thursday that this weekend is "Mandatory Shop Time" . Usually I just stay up late after work and get some shop time in.

*Kevin* - It could but we already have a Changing Table lol.

*Jim* - There will be ramps as I don't have a vacuum in the shop. I am almost to the point of installing the leg vise so expect a few questions as I get your chain installed 

*Bucket* - I have been dicking around with this bench build since February. It has been far from a quick build. Don't stress too much over it and have fun.

I'll have to figure out what to do about the ramps. I like the storage idea but really don't want them to be too big but even with the small amount of time having this together I see the need for them.


----------



## theoldfart

Wall to wall planing, just 8'6" on either side. Bit of a ballet!


















so five down, many to go!


----------



## theoldfart

Also stupid moment of the weekend; when the plane slows down and blows the breaker CHANGE THE BLADES!
Took a day to figure this out, thought it was because of the red oak.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Kev- that oak is less forgiving on blades. I'm so used to working with oak, when I switch it up, I'm like, "man, this stuff is soft!"

BH- glad the MF no 14 is working well for you. However, if you ever get to spend some time with an LN plane one day….you might change your mind


----------



## theoldfart

Red, soft is not a word that comes to mind right now! Eight done, more than half way.


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## mochoa

Eric the bench is looking great man!


----------



## Tugboater78

Oak is eating my planes alive. I just had a duh moment, went to a moving sale yesterday, bought up a bunch of random stuff. One of the first things I noticed was 3 bench planes, 1 craftsman #5 and 2 ? #4s I took them all apart and seeing the frog I put them all back and walked away, they only wanted $5 for each, he'll the blades were worth that to use for scrubbing. FACEPALM!


----------



## Airframer

Wheeeeeeeeeee!










I decided that it was OK to break my "No using the bench till it is finished" rule if I was using it to build it's self right?

Even in it's limited capacity this thing is AWESOME! can't wait! can't wait! can't wait! can't wait!


----------



## terryR

Eric, awesome stuff, bro. Maybe instead of ramps…holes for debris to fall through into shopvac?

Just posted new Blog on bench completion and project finally…


----------



## Mosquito

lol, Eric… I warned you ;-)


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## theoldfart

Eric, slippery slope. Listen to the Mosquito!


----------



## donwilwol

just one more time, then it must be finished before you can use it again


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## Airframer

but, but, but…. oh all right… ;-)


----------



## Buckethead

I'll be doing the same. Too long have I suffered at the wobbly plastic table. As soon as I get her standing, I will be using the best and most stable surface I have for any remaining components that need handwork.

No shame in my game.


----------



## RPhillips

Eric, looking good bro!

Bucket, I'm with ya, I have nothing else to work off of….Fat Max horses and a piece of ply is it.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, truer words have never been spoken:
Ya know, as another woodworker and I were discussing, machining wood is not completely void of skill as some hand tool purists might insinuate. The machines don't just spit out true and square lumber out the other end. There's a learning curve on the power jointer, planer, tablesaw too. A guy can jack up some nice stock with machines in a hurry. Believe me, I've done it. 
I just screwed up TWO 8/4 6×8's I'm gonna burn this on my forehead, DUH, DOH!!


----------



## jmartel

Built myself a Thien Dust Separator today. Now I'll be able to start planing down all those oak boards to start my bench build. Also picked up an extra gallon of wood glue since there will be LOTS of laminations involved.


----------



## Tugboater78

did a mockup glueup of some of my top










threw up a blog post here


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## BigRedKnothead

Tug- I like how your shop is shaping up.

Kev- sorry my words became prophetic for you. Salvageable? Ehh, just swing by my place in the morning. I've got a bunch of red oak in the shed


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## Airframer

I completely agree that power tools come with their own learning curve just like hand tools. Also like was said the mistakes happen much faster and usually less salvageable than with hand tools…. which is why I prefer not to use power tools if I don't have to lol. I can't afford to make that many mistakes 

*Buckethead* - kinda in the same boat. I was fighting through squaring up the stretchers like this..










when I looked just a foot to my left and wondered WTF was I doing LOL!


----------



## theoldfart

RED, they are recoverable. Just mad at my self rookie mistake. Jointer first then planner!


----------



## benjii

Bucket - what saws are you looking at buying? A couple good saws are on my short list. I've gotten used planes from various sources, but I'm thinking that I'm better off buying saws new.


----------



## carguy460

WTF…Nickelback references over here too? Shhesh! I just can't escape those flamers! I can't remember the last time I posted anything worthwhile on this thread, so that must be the cause for the stef attack!

So I guess I could post something worthwhile about my bench progress…but…all I did this weekend in the shop is flip over my workbench lumber…I suck.

Bench progress tonight, I swear. I'll throw on some Nickelback and get to ripping my 2×8's…assuming the little girl isn't too needy, that is.


----------



## johnstoneb

When I took woodshop in high school many years ago. The wood shop teacher started us out with hand tools. We had to square up a board with with handplanes. Cut some of the simpler joints with hand toos and build a couple of projects al with hand tools. His reasoning besides learning what the tools were capable of was two fold. 1. You learned what was actually involved and how the joints worked. At the time I was in high school most home and even commercial shops still had a lot more hand tools than power. I have always tried to learno how to cut a joint by hand before using the machines and jigs. Sometime probably this winter I am going to cut dovetails.


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## Mosquito

Ok, decision time. Is a finish really necessary for a workbench? I've been using mine for a few months now with no finish on it, and have yet to have any problems. I've been putting off the finish because that means I'd have to find the time to take it apart, drive it to my parents' house, and then take up a spot in the garage for a few days… Starting to wonder now, if I even really need to apply a finish.


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## mochoa

The finish is nice because you can do glue ups right on the bench, the glue drops pop off very easily once they are dry. At least put some BLO on it. Why not finish it in parts so the fumes arent to bad. Do the top one week, the bottom some other time…


----------



## donwilwol

Finish helps glue to not stick. I use mine for a lot more than woodworking so a finish is good.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

What kind of problems you anticipating? If none, based on experience, then no finish. Maur and Don said what'd I'd say: I like having a bit of protection on the benchtop for paints (it's been splotched and spilled on the benchtop already, yes) stains, glue and even water. But if nothing you've done in the last few months is a concern, then you're good.


----------



## mochoa

Also, if I went back I'd consider some kind grain filler since its red oak. Metal filings get in there and then when the glue (water based) hits it you get black stains. Maybe if would have added a couple of more coats to the top it wouldn't have been an issue.


----------



## Mosquito

Having not had a workbench until now, I'm not sure what problems I'd be anticipating. I haven't had any issues with glue yet, but haven't glued too many things on it yet either. I've gotten it a few times with chisels and what not though.

I may do it in the "one piece at a time" approach.


----------



## chrisstef

Just slap an air filter over the AC return inside the apartment and slather it on Mos. If it starts to stink a little bit spray said filter with a little febreeze and itll suck in pleasant smell long before any smell from the BLO hits it.

Your neighbors might love ya for it.


----------



## Mosquito

Considering half my neighbors make the hallway stink like cigarettes, I'm not concerned about them if I happen to apply finish that they can smell lol

The a/c unit is in the room that I use as a shop, and all the air that it takes in comes from that room. I'd try to do it when I can have the windows open. I've done it that way before, and just throw a fan in the window as an exhaust to keep the smell from getting to the rest of my apartment. It works pretty well, when I can do that.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah, fall is just around the corner, do it then when you can have the windows open.


----------



## merrill77

Finish on the workbench? Pros: glue sticks less, dirt, water and sweat wipe off easier. Cons: extra work, slippery bench is the enemy of keeping things in place for hand tool work.

I wiped on a quick coat of BLO and left it at that.


----------



## Mosquito

I'd be using a coat of danish oil, so I don't think it'd get too slippery. If it does, I can always just rough it up a little bit too


----------



## lysdexic

Chris - I finished my entire bench with multiple coats of a 3:2:1 mixture. It looks great and I know that it is well protected. However, I now believe the guys who state a film finish is not appropriate for the bench top. For the rest of the bench I think it is fine.

So, I have roughed my top up a bit. When I re-flatten I will probably just apply a penetrating oil. Haven't decided which one yet.


----------



## donwilwol

Just wax should work on the top. Just don't buff the crap out of it so it doesn't get to slick.


----------



## terryR

+1 to a heavy coat of just wax…and don't buff it all off.

Or you could always smother the top with sawdust and rub it in to the oil like I did. LOL


----------



## BigRedKnothead

See, I really like danish oil on my benches. I freshen it up from time to time. But the one time I tried a coat of paste, I thought it was too slick. Probably preference.

Got my galoot on yesterday. Drilled and chopped some mortises by hand. Well, I did about half of them…til my A.D.D. kicked in. Finished the rest with electrons. I mostly wanted to try out my new LN mortising chisels. They did not disappoint. I know they're pricey, but the edge retention is awesome. 

















Had to work late last night. Not feelin' it today. Just chillin' with the kiddos.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, I'm with you on the Danish oil. Nice chisels, 30 angle?


----------



## lysdexic

I need some mortising chisels. I wish Veritas would come out with PM-V11 version. I'd pull the trigger. Why - just cuz.

I have looked for Ashley Iles (Ray?)but TFWW is always out stock. Till then router and WoodRiver bench chisels.


----------



## theoldfart

Scott, I can keep my eye out for some pig stickers if you wish. They tend to need new handles but are great for bashing with prejudice!


----------



## Buckethead

*Ben*, sorry for the slow response. Been up to my neck in indentured servitude. 

I am looking at getting a tenon/back saw, a rip and crosscut panel saw would be nice too.

*Air Framer* that is a very pretty chunk of wood you have for your stretcher. Do you ever find yourself reluctant to modify such beautiful pieces in any way? I find myself feeling regret when I cut into a big slab. I find the wood doesn't need my workmanship to make it beautiful, rather the transverse.

I'm going out to the back yard to thank a tree.

*TOF*, need more info on the botch… Salvageable? What type of mistake? You know we love the gore.

Also, more incentive for me to expedite completion of my workbench while at the same time, a greater need to keep the joinery tight, and finish superb. My wife has volunteered our front room as a handtool workspace for me and the bench. Once a formal living room, then converted to a home office for a corporate schmuck type job I had for a bit, then on hold as her sewing/art studio. She currently uses our bedroom and our den.

So it's a small space. Very confining for anything more than the bench and a chest, as well as perhaps a cabinet.

Double French doors and three windows. Did I mention the air conditioning? Summer ends here around thanksgiving.   ( that's two smileys for those keeping tabs)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Kev- ya, they still have the 30 degree factory bevel. These are really my first mortising chisels. I used to just bash on my blue marples. I never would've gotten through one mortise without hitting the stones with the marples. I got through two big mortises before I even had to strop the LN. Not even a chip in the edge after 6. 
Not trying to brag 'em up too much…but I was impressed.

Had to go car shopping today. Is there a more legally crooked business in our country?


----------



## Mosquito

Scotty, I've been thinking about picking up some Iles mortise chisels one at a time. I think I've convinced myself I'll start when some of the perpetually out of stock sizes is in stock. I check about once a month


----------



## theoldfart

*Red*, please say its not the Tacoma! Car sales=insurance sales lie like a dog.
*Bucket*, heavy red oak 8/4×8"x8 1/2' bowed. Can't just run it through the planer, just gets more bowed DOAH!
Forgot about face jointing it first so….. They are recoverable and i got some extra stock just for precious moments like these. BTW you get windows? and AC? You DOG, I have two cellar windows. Not so good in winter under the snow. Lucky man

Edit, waiting for a refund from BigWoodVise so the bench screw will be delayed a few weeks. Lake Erie Toolworks has a two week turnaround so as soon as I have the refund…....


----------



## shampeon

Red: Maybe the mattress industry, and I'm not joking.

Do it online. Seriously. Test drive at a dealership but don't commit to anything. Then contact the internet sales division for all the local dealers and tell them you've test driven the car and you want this, that, and the other options in such-and-such color, and what can they give you for a price?

The internet sales people are different from the floor sales, and are no-nonsense, for the most part. If you get a form email back or "MSRP" or whatever, cross 'em off the list and go on. You'll get some quotes, and then take the lowest price, go through a round where you say that you can get it for X amount, can you beat it? If they can, then go back to the first dealer and ask the same question.

We went through this for our last car. We ended up going with the local SF dealer, and they asked for me to forward the previous-lower offer to make sure I wasn't just blowing smoke, but they beat it, and all we had to do was schedule a time to do paperwork and sign the papers. Easy.


----------



## waho6o9

+1 for doing it on line, good call Ian.

I filled out the paper work, credit history, etc., on line, & told them what I wanted and they
sent me a price for a new truck.

Went in to test drive, after most everyone said I was crazy to do it this way, and 
drove home in a new Tundra.

Easy peasy. Toyota really does make it easy.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Kev- nah, mines actually a tundra, back before they got big. It's not going anywhere…it's the newest vehicle I have

Appreciate the input guys. I'm replacing my commuter camry. I've gotta go used. Now way I wanna park something new at the rail yards. Seems a little tougher to negotiate online with used. I usually shop around online to find cars I'm interested in…then just hit those dealers. I don't mess around much, or do the back and forth thing. But both dealerships today claimed their prices were the "no haggle" thing like carmax. I reminded them that's fine if they're not several grand over bluebook to start with. Not too worried about it. I'll get what I want eventually.

btw Kev, you can get away with some bow if your gonna laminate them in your top between true boards.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, the bow is substantial at this point so i'll have to flatten it. The wood seems wicked stiff so i've been afraid to let any warp remain. My clamps are good and i have plenty of them, just need to make some cauls from ripping to size.
I had it in my head you had a Tacoma, but they're all big now.


----------



## lysdexic

^ that's exactly why I love my '04 Tundra access cab. The new truck beds are just too dang tall. I can't reach over the sides and am 6'2". The new Tacomas are bigger than my Tundra.


----------



## shampeon

A negotiating technique I've always wanted to try but haven't had a chance to do yet: Bring in a single check with the dollar amount you want to pay for the car written out but no payee. Tell the salesperson, "I want that. *points* Do you want this?"


----------



## Mosquito

And don't be shy about standing up, thanking them for their time, and walking out the door. I did it a few times when I test drove a few potential buys. You'd be surprised how much harder they try when you're on your way out lol

"I really can't go that low… The price can't be that big of an issue, if you drove all the way out here to look at it" (it was about an hour and 15 minute drive). "I think we're done here then" and I stood up. Interestingly enough he came down another $1000 before I had my jacket on lol I ended up at $3200 under what they were asking initially, and about $2,000 over kelley blue book trade in value. I'm happy


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ian- My grandpa does something like that. He stops by, tells them a reasonable price he'll write the check for…not a penny over….and he's going to lunch. When he gets back he wants the taxes and everything to equal exactly that amount….or he'll try another dealer tomorrow. So far…he's never had to go to a 2nd dealership.

Mos- I hear ya. I just didn't have the patience for it today. Salesman followed me out to my car. I just said, "check ya later dude. Your wasting my time."


----------



## Airframer

I used to sell used cars… had to quite due to moral objections to trying to screw people out of money they didn't have to spend. It is truely cut throat and corrupt on the other side of the sales bench.

Back on topic real quick…

What are you folks screw distance from the top for your leg vises? I am trying to lay out my stretchers and fit the vise in as well but I'm not sure if it will all fit. I need 12" from the screw to parallel guide for the chain vise installation and the PG cannot be under the stretcher. My top is 3 1/2" thick and the total bench height is 32 1/2".. ARG MATHS!!!!! What would be the minimum floor to stretcher distance you would use and the minimum top to screw distance?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm behind the topic, but +1 to the LN mortising chisels. I'm believing sockets are a preferred design for chisels, so I'll be picking one or two soon (I hope).


----------



## WhoMe

"Had to go car shopping today. Is there a more legally crooked business in our country?"

Red, try buying a motorhome sometime… or for that matter, any RV…


----------



## widdle

The english firmers make for a nice size mortise chisel…


----------



## Airframer

OK, now that I am home and was able to really look at it with a ruler I think I have it figured out… freak out moment over lol..


----------



## terryR

+1 ti the ray iles mortice chisels…only used my 1/2" model for practice, but was impressed after two mallet blows. I think I know why they are difficult to find in stock!  Although I saw a nice set on eBay a month ago…

ScottyB, I have a simple solution for NOT being able to reach over the tall pickup sides…add a camper shell. Then fugettaboutit. LOL. I have an F-250 with 34" tall tires, and a high rise camper shell…forget about just hopping up on the tailgate at me age! I even need a ladder to change the oil…no joke! Ever seen a 5 foot long dipstick?

Also +1 to car shopping with a check in hand…Ford took over $8000 off the asking price of our truck since that's all we were going to offer, period. I kept mentioning the Dodge dealership which is closer to our home, too.


----------



## carguy460

+1 more on the car shopping with check in hand. That's how we bought our truck - pretty much told them if this check won't cover the total balance, I'm out. Got about 9k off their "best offer". Funny how that worked out.


----------



## Tugboater78

.


----------



## theoldfart

Justin, very eloquent!


----------



## RGtools

Iles are perfect. I see no need to look further for a mortiser.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Don't want to totally hijack the bench thread with my automotive woes…but I thought you guys might get a chuckle at your influence.

Besides my work environment, I wrote off new because of the price tag. This morning I haggled online with a dealership (thank you Ian). All said and done, getting every rebate they can find….and 0 percent interest. I was baffled at how much they came down when they knew I was serious.

Off to pick up my new camry. Bench progress to resume shortly


----------



## shampeon

Sweet. Glad I could help out.


----------



## Airframer

One down… 3 more to go…










Got a system going by the second mortise/tenon cut so it should go a bit faster now. At this rate I might…. MIGHT.. have this finished (or at least ready for finish) by the end of this weekend…. maybe..


----------



## JayT

Looks good, Eric. Now quit jinxing yourself.

You realize that because you typed "MIGHT.. have this finished by the end of this weekend" you will now have something happen to throw it off. A plumbing leak, car problem, drop a chisel on/in your foot or maybe a completely new issue.


----------



## JayT

Red, it's surprising how much dealers are willing to dicker on new. We had to replace wife's car a year and a half ago and paid about the same amount for brand new as they were asking for a similar 2 year old one with 30k. Congrats on the new ride (even if it is a Camry).


----------



## Boatman53

Eric, I don't know the dimensions of the side strechers but if you locate then on the outside edge of the leg it looks like you would have plenty of room for the parallel guide to be quite low (a good thing). The lower the better and with the chain it doesn't matter because you won't need to bend over anyway.
Jim


----------



## RPhillips

*Red* nice on the Camry!

I got my Titan for what was essentially $12,000 off the sticker…couldn't believe it…and while I was wrapping up my deal, the guy in the cubbie next to me was signing his deal for only $2,000 under sticker. lol

*AF* Looking go Bro!


----------



## jmartel

Got the back half of the benchtop laminating up today.










I stayed home from work sick today (legitimately. Have a fever/headache/stomach hurts), and I can't stand not doing something. Sometimes I swear I have ADD. So, I planed down the boards and ripped them all to 3.5". Final thickness I'm aiming for about 3".


----------



## Airframer

*Jim* - I had thought of that but want to have a shelf… I suppose I could cut a hole for the chain to go through the shelf. Is there any back/forward flex of the chain in use between the gears or is it pretty stable there?


----------



## AnthonyReed

Nice alley-oop Ian. Congrats BRK.

Looking great AF! Demonstrating courage by throwing out an ETA…. more power to ya.

Well done jmartel.


----------



## Boatman53

Eric the chain travels in a straight line and gravity is on your side on the vertical portion. There is no lateral motion in the vertical section. What travels over the beam can sometimes sag and lay on the beam briefly, but that doesn't happen very often. Sorry but my checking in will be sporadic through the weekend but I'll check in when I can. Call me if you really need an answer.
Jim


----------



## Tugboater78

Ripped the pith out some SPY 2×10-12s today. Had 2 2×10x10s I picked up over a month ago for some reason at the blue box. The other day the guy who runs the local hardware store told me his dad/older brothers lumberyard had their 18-20 ft 2×12s on sale of SPY so I went down and grabbed 2 18', was all I had the cash for. I xcut them at 9' myself as my S-10 can't fit an 18ft board. Guess I wanted an option on workbench material..









Left side are the pith pieces got a couple 2×6s and most the rest are 2×4 size

Had to get an ripped and stored before they dried out completely and got really warped.. most are completely free of knots..I was picky..


----------



## terryR

Looks massive, jmartel, I hope you have a buddy to help ya lift the top! Wow, it looks 8 or 10 feet long!

Nice pile of lumber, Justin. It's funny how a pile of 2by's make me invision a bench now…

...a pile of 12×12's might scare me!


----------



## jmartel

It's only about 74" long. Still quite heavy though. Plan is to attempt to flatten one side with a handplane, and then do the other with my planer. We'll see if I don't give up on the hand plane first.


----------



## benjii

When I laminated my top it kind of looked like yours, jmartel. I used a router.


----------



## theoldfart

*BRK*, did not want to send a PM with all this hacking going on. Having a great deal of trouble planing the red oak. On my second set of blades and only nine planks done. I've been wire brushing every thing down pretty aggressively, but the blades are still dulling pretty fast. My planer is a Rigid 4330. Did you have any issues with the red oak oak like this?


----------



## chrisstef

Kevin, try misting the oak with a bit of water prior to planing to raise up the grain a little bit. Might go easier on your knives.


----------



## theoldfart

Any chance I could use white gas?


----------



## chrisstef

Like denatured alcohol …. not sure? Why would you? Just so it evaporates quicker?

I assume you could use anything that would raise the grain.


----------



## theoldfart

Nah, looking for fire. Kinda PO'd right now. Never had this much trouble with woodworking before.


----------



## chrisstef

Ahhh I gotcha. Talk to Mauricio about lighting DNA, he just had a small incident lol.

Deep breaths buddy. It just might be a sign that its beer thirty and you're late to the party.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Can't say that I've had that much trouble Kev. My jet planer combo machine is nothing special. I lightly sharpen the blades while still in the machine from time to time. Change them about once a year. The blades should not be dulling that fast.

Sorry I'm not more help.


----------



## theoldfart

*Stef*, one more try then beer o'clock Smutty Nose Robust Porter!
*Red*, maybe a ceramic stone on the edge of the blade? On the flat or bevel? BTW Thanks for the responses


----------



## widdle

Of..Just in case you havn't tried it…wax the bed, clean the rollers, super light passes and slow speed rate, if you have that option..good luck..


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks *widdle*. SIngle speed only, forgot to wax the bed so that should help. Dry rag on the rollers?


----------



## widdle

Dry rag, compressed air and alcohol..can also double check grain direction with your stanley's


----------



## mochoa

I have run a lot of red oak through my Ridgid planner. I trip by breaker a lot but the blades should not be dulling that fast. Could there be some grit imbedded in that wood?

I wouldn't be putting any DNA on that wood, heat and alcohol don't mix, trust me!


----------



## theoldfart

*Maur*, just me venting! Did here about your attempted self-immolation. Glad your ok. I've been wire brushing the wood, since it was outside for quite a while at the mill.


----------



## Airframer

Hmmm my oak has never really given me much trouble… but I don't have an electric planer so not much help there. I hope you get it all sorted out buddy.

In other news… you know that feeling when your mortise and tenon fit is so perfect that you have to use a large hammer to get them together and when it seats the shoulder is flush all the way around and it will hand at 90 degrees dry fit un-aided? Yeah… it's that kind of a day 

I have never had a joint do this for me before… pretty stoked lol..



















And about the arbitrary call out of this weekend… I realize it may just bite me in the arse but I'd like to at least have it to a point where it won't haunt me all next week while I am out of town. If not.. oh well I still have my September deadline lol.


----------



## theoldfart

Awesome work Eric. You'll be done before September no doubt.


----------



## Buckethead

That is one sweet dad diddly doggonned M&T there Eric!

I'm starting to wonder if you're one of those aliens.


----------



## WhoMe

"In other news… you know that feeling when your mortise and tenon fit is so perfect that you have to use a large hammer to get them together and when it seats the shoulder is flush all the way around and it will hand at 90 degrees dry fit un-aided? Yeah… it's that kind of a day "

Nope, nada, never had one of those days. If I did, I would stop right then and have a cold one. Close up shop and wait till the next day. Because, with my luck I would really mess up the next one trying to figure out what I did right on the previous one. :=)


----------



## RGtools

I love it when it all comes together like that Eric. Keep it up. That is going to be a sweet bench.

I really need to scan in the side project bench I am working on.

I will grab the draft from my shop.


----------



## lysdexic

Speaking of good karma….


----------



## theoldfart

Sigh, I can take a few more statin pills then I can come over! Gotta bottle or two of Robust Porter in hand…....


----------



## chrisstef

Nothin but blue skies Scott.

Edit - you come across some weird sh1t.


----------



## theoldfart

Progress, thanks to everyone for letting me vent. Waxed the tables, changed the knives, wiped down the rollers and running great. Decided to face joint all the stock first since I can sharpen those knives and I have two sets. Finished with a jack so they should be clean for the planner. Having a beer now. And no fire!


----------



## Buckethead

Way to power through!


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks


----------



## Buckethead

I saw your dilemma earlier, but I just didn't have any experience with oak. I did a set of tails with some, and it seemed like a nice wood to work with.

Times like those require patience more than anything else.

And apparently … Beer.


----------



## mochoa

And ear protection because thats a lot of feeding boards through machines!

Eric, sweet tenons man! I like the vertical stretcher approach your taking rather than it following the angle of the leg.

Scott, masterful onion rings man, especially that Ying Yang shaped one!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Glad it is sorted OF.

Damn Eric, you are killing it. Way to go man.


----------



## theoldfart

I think Maur was right, the stock was outside at the mill for a long time. Simply wire brushing it wasn't enough. Between the power jointer and a jack I've gotten all of the outside crud removed. Hope to get back at it maybe Sunday, other things happening till then.
BTW the grain on this stuff is really outstanding!


----------



## donwilwol

a scrub plane is perfect for the cleanup task before planning.


----------



## theoldfart

Yea I know. Been looking for one in the wild, nothin' doin'. I hope to get a 40 1/2. Any opinions?


----------



## donwilwol

make one till you find one. I have a #40, works great. A #40 1/2 is a little harder to find.


----------



## mochoa

This is one of my favorite wood eaters. 
The wooden Fore Plane:









But I've never tried an iron scrub plane, it might be the bees knees.


----------



## Loco

I've put my Land Cruncher on this with forks on a backhoe.









It's just 3" x 3" x 1/4" angle on a 2×3 Mahogany frame with grade five 3/8 bolts and a 3/32" thick 308 top on an "X" frame of 2×3. All screws. Nails are for idiots !
3800 lbs. No problem.








Yeah. Them thar fenderz are 16 gu.mirror stainless on Rhino coated 1 1/4 black pipe. Nightmare to make. ;-(


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Kev- glad to hear it's going better. One advantage to the jointer/planer combo machines….it's easy to touch up the knives on the top(jointer) side. Nut sure you could get a new edge on yours without removing the knives.


----------



## Airframer

Way to go Kevin ;-) I am a firm believer that problems do not exist… only solutions we haven't found yet. Nice!

Second long stretcher complete. Now for the short stretchers. I am thinking that dovetailed lap joints on those would be the best way to go considering the non angled front leg mortise issue. Anyone with experience with this type of joint want to pipe in on any draw backs to that plan?



















Oh and got some good news today.. I am NOT being sent out of town next week after all. Budget issues killed the class I was to attend so now I get to do it online lol.


----------



## woodcox

I was in the shop not finding plumbing parts to fix a leaky fridge line, when I started rounding up anything 2x for ripping candidates for my bench top. On the wall above the garage door is a shelf with carpet scraps and some junk from the previous home owner. What I assumed was a dirty pine 2×12 shelf turned out to be a huge, heavy chunk of rough oak! I could not believe it. 11 or so bf, 7/4 12.5" x 71". 1 7/8" is considered 7/4? It is flat sawn, no knots, little cupping and wane with minor end checking. I'm guessing white oak. I was thinking ripping it for aprons and maybe chops. 









I think its time for some proper jointers. Would a six suffice to get me through this build or should I save for a seven? 
Loco: sweet FJ, I own a '79 FJ40 with way more cancer than yours


----------



## Tugboater78

AF - thats the joint i was imagining you would have to do, maybe dowel/pin the DTs to make sure they dont work loose.

Woodcox thats a great find! I know what i will be using for chops, i got a few 8/4 4-5 inches tall by 2 ft long from Rhett at NiceAshPlanes that will be perfect chops for my endvice and a smaller front vice, if i go that route. #6 will do most your work probably in my opinion.


----------



## terryR

Nice-looking work, guys!

Mauricio, did you make that wooden foreplane? How's the tote attached, I mean underneath? Can ya take it apart and photograph it?  I assume it sits in a flat groove, but needs the raised boss to accept the screw?

I'm sure you can guess why I'm dying to know…( rhymes with maineswap )


----------



## mochoa

Nah I didn't make it. It's a vintage plane I got off of ebay for about $5. It was in a pretty decrepit state but I was able to resurrect it.

When I need to remove big ribbons of wood its one of my favorites.


----------



## terryR

^Thanks, Maur. That is exactly what the wooden jack I finished yesterday needs…

$5, huh? Ya know, you suck!


----------



## mochoa

The tote is just glued in Terry. I cant remember if I had to reglue it or not.


----------



## mochoa

Oh it was worth no more than $5, it looked like crap.


----------



## lysdexic

Eric,

I think a DT joint would look great and work great for the side stretchers. Basically, You would be executing a half-blind DT like the "condor tails." With a half-blind you can pin through the leg using a dowel parallel to the axis of the tail/stretcher. If you felt like it is needed.

I used a technique described by Jameel Abraham where you cut your tail/stretcher using whatever method you choose. I used the bandsaw. Then rebate the back of the tali so that it registers. Mark. Then chisel out the first 1/4" of depth so that the tail fits. Then use a pattern router bit to cut the rest of the pin.

I was amazed out how easy and predictable this technique was to execute. This is the result of my first and only attempt.










Blog entry

I dont know if this is what you had in mind but I thought it might help.


----------



## terryR

I formally take back my 'you suck'.

Nice job bringing this plane back to life! Heck, I bet they charged you $12.95 in shipping…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Those are some dreamy dovetails Scotty.

Here's one of those m&t joints Eric was talking 'bout. Hope the rest are this nice. If not I'll just bust out the shoulder plane.


----------



## lysdexic

Thanks Rojo,

After thinking about it, I realize that that is about the *86th* time that I have posted that picture. I apologize for that. However, that is first and last time I experienced something so successful.


----------



## mochoa

Not even the Ying Yang onion ring? I think that one should rank up there to.

I think you should have pictures of the DT's and the onion rings up in your office for all to see.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That's funny Scotty, because it's the first time I remember seeing that pic.

Sometimes I wonder how much I'm repeating myself on LJs. When I first got on here, I thought, "Are these guys really going and snapping all these pics for good examples?" Didn't take long til I realized one tends to build up a library of pics that are easy to reference from. Do it a lot myself now.


----------



## lysdexic

Maur, I cant credit for the onion ring. That is the way it came out of the bag, frozen. Oddly, no one in the family had the heart to bite into it.


----------



## lysdexic

Red - especially when these 6-8 threads blur together.


----------



## chrisstef

Really Lys? I would have gobbled up that o-ring and took it for better or worse, just like the one that you get that's been swimming in the fry-o-later for multiple cycles. All edible. Its their destiny. Do not deny destiny.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

What eight threads? You by chance refering to the Chisels, Workamates and Marking Tool Handplanes of your Using Smackdown State Shop Dream Sawfiles Toolbox thread???


----------



## RGtools

^I agree on that.


----------



## mochoa

LOL


----------



## RGtools

^but you forgot chisels.

And Measuring tools.

Tools are just awesome. That should have been the thread.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Duly noted, update completed see above.


----------



## chrisstef

Also referred to as …


----------



## Airframer

So what do you guys say…. trim the back tail to match the leg or leave the over hang. The original plan was to trim it but now that it is on.. I'm…. just… not … sure…










And it looks gappy as hell but it required a clamp to seat it into the leg so I have no idea what kind of witchcraft is involved there but I'll take it.

I also had a forstner bit incident… damn thing decided to go for a walk and of course it is on the front side of the front leg.










Might be able to sand it out a bit… oh well.. past the point of caring now lol.


----------



## mochoa

I say trim the DT and don't sweat the marring on the front too much. Just plane/scrape as much as you can out and leave it alone.


----------



## Mosquito

I'd also say trim, personally. And I also wouldn't care about the forstner bite (yes, bite) either


----------



## JayT

I was going to say trim it, but then looked at it this way:










Now I don't know. Since it is on the back and shouldn't be in the way of anything, you could leave it for now, and always have the option to trim it off later (though we all know that those "later" type of things never get done)

Edit: Yah, no biggie on the Forstner bit. I agree with whoever it was that said something to the effect of "The first thing you should do after finishing your workbench is to hit it with a hammer. Then you aren't worried about all the other dings that will happen."


----------



## mochoa

Or cut it with a circ saw, then its all down hill from there. ;-)

I have a sheet of MDF I use to protect the bench when staining stuff. I sometimes lean it against the back legs. Those protruding DTs would kind of get in the way.


----------



## donwilwol

I vote for trim 'em to.
Leave the scar.


----------



## mochoa

by the way, what the heck were you doing with a forstner bit?


----------



## donwilwol

yea, and don't hang it from the ceiling like JayT suggested.


----------



## Airframer

Yeah I decided to kill some electrons on those instead of chopping them out. I'll do my laps… lol

I'll probably keep them long till final assembly then make a decision. I think I need to see it all together and right side up before I can make up my mind on this.


----------



## JayT

It's not hung from the ceiling, that's how it looks standing on your head!


----------



## donwilwol

what would be the objective to leaving them long? Just curious.


----------



## shampeon

Eric: once you've tried a good brace with some sharpened brace bits, your Forstners will collect dust on the shelf, mostly.


----------



## Airframer

No objective just aesthetics.

Shamp… I love my brace/bits but the legs wanted to twist when the bit started to bite no matter how I secured it so to the drill press it went.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"especially when these 6-8 threads blur together."

Crazy how much that happens. I try to post stuff on the correct forum….but it bleeds together. It all woodworking. But I really am working in my shop….. building a bench….and a tool box beneath…with hand planes and chisels….

Heft and hubris action…on my bench legs:


----------



## RGtools

Great shot BRK.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Ryan. How did I ever live without one of these? I know, I performed some ridiculous hack-jobs attempting to trim tenons and shoulders….before I had the appropriate planes


----------



## Tugboater78

Would my 78 work as a shoulder plane till I get a shoulder plane? Lol


----------



## Buckethead

Lys… That joint bears multiple postings. It is perfection.

Me? I'm eating clam chowder.


----------



## Buckethead

Red… That #8 is a work of art. So is that shoulder plane. Goodness knows, there isn't a cheap option for a shoulder plane.

I think it's my next purchase as I'm doing M&T on my stretchers too. Could have used it already. I'm thinking this is the type of plane one should just bite the bullet and get the Lie Neilsen, or that English plane… (Clifton?)

Pricey, but an heirloom in and of itself.

Here's the thing about heirloom tools… How often are you hoping to see uninterested progeny selling off gramps' fine tools for pennies on the dollar on craigslist? I'm always on the lookout for such. Hopefully, my littluns won't be so silly.

Even worse than letting fine tools go on the cheap: Letting them rust in the humidity first.


----------



## terryR

Nice shots, Red. All your work looks clean and crisp! Congrats on the LN shoulder plane, too. A must have tool for every shop…

Speaking of heirloom tools…After each nice tool I collect and clean (vintage or brand new), I keep joking to my wife that someone is going to have a field day at my estate sale! LOL. No heirs for me…I'm keeping my hand tools till they pry my cold dead fingers from the Bad Axe saw!


----------



## theoldfart

I'll bring a pry bar for that Bad Ax!


----------



## chrisstef

OF ill get the die grinder just in case the pry bar wont budge them farmer fingers. Lord know those fellas got one hell of a grip.


----------



## theoldfart

Do we have to wait till he's cold?


----------



## chrisstef

Nope just until the blood has coagulated enough as to where we wont ruin the saw with any splatter  Dr. BYo about how long should that take?


----------



## Mosquito

Tug, I've used my #78 for the purpose of a shoulder before. The downfall to it is that it doesn't have that large of a reference surface on the side, so you have to make sure you keep it at the correct angle. Otherwise sure


----------



## terryR

...rough crowd this morning…must be friday!

And, after 25 years of Nursing, I can attest to the fact that old skinny farmers are strong as bulls!  The die grinder would probably do less damage to the saw's tote than a pry bar…as long as you focus on cutting my fingers and NOT the tote, please! LOL


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Trust us, Terry, we'll be gentle (with the tools)... lol


----------



## chrisstef

LOL roger that Terry, no nicking the tote, deal. My old man gets a lot of farmers that come through is shop for batteries, gotta be careful shaking the hands of those boys, they got the kung fu grip.

There's 3 types of strength:

Gym Strength
Man Strength
Farmer Strength

In that order.


----------



## donwilwol

Note to self. Pick a vintage bone saw and sharpen.


----------



## terryR

I love youz guys! You keep me going…

I rekon when I reach the age of 75, I'll just start mailing you all sweet tools since you are my extended family. Bad news is…you gotta wait 25 more years!!!


----------



## TerryDowning

What eight threads? You by chance refering to the Chisels, Workamates and Marking Tool Handplanes of your Using Smackdown State Shop Dream Sawfiles Toolbox thread???

AKA the whirling Vortex!! I've been sucked in!!

This is my morning news now.


----------



## Mosquito

Terry, the good news is in 25 years I'll only be 51, so I'd have a long time to enjoy them still (hopefully) ;-)


----------



## donwilwol

Holy crap. In 25 years I'll be 25 years older.


----------



## TerryDowning

Looks like the 2 Terry's have a lot in more in common than just the name.

Welcome to the geeze brutha!!


----------



## RGtools

Up until this second I though Terry and Terry were the same person who swithed icons from time to time. They even both have a circle.

Clones.


----------



## JayT

In 25 years, I'll probably be 20 years older and 5 years dead.


----------



## jmartel

Good to see another person on here around my same age, Mos. I'm only 25. Seems most woodworking folks are 40+. I usually get a few weird looks going into the lumberyard/rockler until they realize I know what I'm looking at.


----------



## merrill77

jmartel - I was in your same position 15-20 years ago. Went to the local woodworking club meeting and the youngest guy there had 20 years on me. Now I guess I fit in  Unfortunately, my woodworking skills have only matured by a few years…


----------



## Airframer

Time to knock out list item #2….


----------



## Mosquito

Oooh fancy AF

*jmartel*, I know the feeling lol I'm a member of the MWTCA, and when I went to a meet this spring, I think I was one of the youngest members…


----------



## mochoa

Sweet hardware AF. did you get it from Jim or did you tap some government resources to get your parts machined? lol.

By the way is that a toy tank in one of those baggies?


----------



## Airframer

Yep that is the Chain Vise kit that Jim aka Boatman53 makes and sells. The thought of fiddling with a pin every time I clamp something does not appeal to me at all lol.

I'm not seeing the tank in a bag?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I believe the tank may be the actual chain.

It's Stef who loves fiddling with his pin, I believe… An inspiration to us all.


----------



## Tugboater78

In 25 years ill be sexty and still goin strong!..yeah right..i work on a tugboat..ill be broke down..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That vise is awesome Eric, I would just like to have the wheel crank.

I could really use that fork lift about now. Gluing/pegging the base up by myself was a little hairy.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ won't be long now, Rojo!


----------



## Airframer

Red - you can get one from Reid Supply for around $30 shipped (iirc). You just have to drill your own hole and cast iron is actually pretty easy to drill through.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Eric. Giving me Ideas for my moxon….other than just buying the benchcrafted.

Well. Got the top on by myself. Wasn't the smartest thing I've ever done…..even with my 6'8" wingspan. Dropped right on…hence the blood blister on my finger.


----------



## chrisstef

Hell yea Red. Did it make your lip curl up like Billy Idol when ya hoisted it off the horses?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

LOL…no, it was more like Mr. Burns on the Simpsons- hunched over with baby steps.


----------



## chrisstef

Did you have a bull whip like Mr. Idol? Lol.

Whichever character you ended up looking like, you did it, and if all it cost was a little blood blister ya done well brother.










Sorry, once I get started on Billy Idol I cant stop.


----------



## BTimmons

*Fact:* The "WOOOOOOOOOOOOO" that Billy Idol unleashes near the end of 'White Wedding' is regarded by modern science to be the highest known frequency that is audible to humans.


----------



## jmartel

Funny you say that, Tugboater. I'm doing work on a tugboat at the moment. I'm on the engineering design side though, rather than the labor side though.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm pretty sure Mauricio was referring to this one:









which appears to be some bolts in the other image


----------



## mochoa

thanks Mos, I was to busy to respond, its a figgin toy tank!


----------



## chrisstef

My little bags don't come with tanks in em ….. Stef wants a tank. And to be off work for the day. And a pony.


----------



## theoldfart

*Stef* and* Doc*, thanks for the digital pics!. Good news, PayPAl refunded my money from BigWoodVise today so next week ordering a new screw setup from Lake Erie. The hand planing is going better, #5 doing scrub duty and getting pretty red oak wood. I hope to get a lot done this weekend.


----------



## jmartel

Well the wife is sick so we cancelled going away for the weekend. Got home from work and decided to work on the bench. Since she is sick and our neighbors behind us are having a party, I didn't want to use power tools to flatten one side of the slab. Pulled out my No. 6, sharpened it up, and had a go. I'm pretty horrible with handplanes, so it was a good practice for me.










It's not perfect as the side closest to the camera dips down on the last board by about 1/16", but it's flat over the rest of the slab. Enough that I can send it through the planer to flatten the other side, and then do a pass or two on this side to finish it off. There's a ton of the Medullary rays showing up. I'm also fairly certain that I got a couple of white oak boards mixed in with the red when I bought it, as there's 2 that are darker/browner than the rest. in the slab. You can see them in the middle.

It's looking like I'll end up right at the 72" long and 3" thick I wanted after it's all said and done.

Closeup of the grain:


----------



## Buckethead

My beeper was melting down yesterday at work. Each time I heard an email activate the vibrate feature on my Motorola big boy beeper, I was reminded that I'd rather be working on a tenon.

So we have lots of progress, toy tanks, rebel yells, chains which keep chops parallel effortlessly, blood blisters, kids with more experience in fine woodworking than a thirty year veteran carpenter, and a bone cutting contest with prizes. So if I can cut away the farmer grip without damaging the tote, I win?

In my Craigslist monitoring I have seen a couple butcher's band saws up for sale. You have to know I considered them.


----------



## terryR

jmartel, that's lovely…nice work!

The rest of youz, no sawzalls at my funeral, please!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jmart, nice pic there at the end. Love me an oak workbench, I do…


----------



## theoldfart

*Jmartel*, that top looks fine. Can't wait to see the rest.
*Terry*, no sawzall, hand tools only. Boltcutters!

My pile grows SLOWLY:


















Keeping two jacks occupied.


----------



## Tedstor

Here's my "new" bench. Its actually about 40 years old. Salvaged from a school auction. Its not the bench of my dreams, but should suit me pretty well for years to come. I just bought it, so I haven't had a chance to add a vice, dog holes, etc. Will update:


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Tedstor- that looks exactly like the benches at my high school school, minus a quick release vise on one end. Even if you make another bench one day….it'll make a great assembly table.

BH- "kids with more experience in fine woodworking than a thirty year veteran carpenter" your starting to sound like my retired neighbors….lol

Jmartel- gotta love all the cool edge grain you get on plainsawn oak. Benches are great practice with hand planes joinery etc. If you get some tearout, oh well…its a bench.

Here's a little from my crazy glueup yesterday. I had to work until 4am at my real job, so I doubt I will get out there today before work. I would have love to glue up the legs and stetchers upside down on the sawhorses. But I didn't see that happening with two hands, 6 legs, and 8 stretchers. First I glued the stretcher in the end legs and let the glue set….seen in this pic:









Tried to get my son to help…but you can see how that went. Matter of fact, I think my kids know whenever I'm gluing something. That's when they decide to break stuff and reek havoc. 








Drawboring is one way to snug the stretcher. I used the technique I've used on dining tables. You just need one long pipe clamp(I even keep one 10footer around). Basically, get the joint glued up, clamp it tight, drill and peg the tenons, move to the other side. 
This bench has snug 2-1/2" long tenons, pegged with 1/2" oak dowels. It should hold.










Set the top. I should have waited til I had help…but I'm stubborn. I'm thinking I'm gonna need to peg the through mortises to secure the top to the legs….via the front and back edge of the bench top.


----------



## Buckethead

Yeah.. When I read my own post it does sound grumpy old mannish. I meant it earnestly. I have built armoires, potting benches, picnic tables, arbors, trellises, houses, and a host of other items. Never using fine joinery or hardwoods. So these twenty something's have years of experience over me in that regard. I'm young at heart too! I still see beautiful girls through my twenty year old eyes. (Nevermind that they see me as just another old dood.)

Then there is you (Red) and AF. Producing a mile of joinery to my inch. I like to blame my day job and lack of dedicated workspace. 

I must say… Sometimes I wish I had gone with oak on my bench. It really looks great, and is readily available in my neck of the woods, for far lower prices than maple or walnut.

OF, your stock is looking fantastic. It looks like your intent is to go hefty. I hope I don't regret making my bench 2' x 6' (ish).


----------



## theoldfart

*Bucket*, I'm with you on the twenty somethings! The bench top going to be 24" x 84-90" or so. Not much bigger than yours.
*Red*, 1/2" pegs, yikes! Did you offset the tenon holes?


----------



## RPhillips

Well here it goes…feeling more like Paul Bunion than Paul Sellers…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"offset tenon holes"...nah Kev. I just clamp it well, and drill through the leg and the tenon while assembled. Not that drawboring is a bad idea. I've just never had any problems with this method.

Rob- I think that's a new category on the galoot scale.


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## chrisstef

Gargantuloot.


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## theoldfart

*Rob*, Uber Galloot


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## terryR

Holy rip saws, Rob! You should go measure the diameter of your forearms and biceps…and do so again AFTER the ripping is done. And definately cancel your membership to a workout gym! LOL

Is it too late to consider a Japanese style bench?









(from this month's PWW, an excellent read…)


----------



## theoldfart

Notice the forked mortise chisel.


----------



## terryR

^And how the other chisels are held positioned on a table…not rolling around…hmmm…


----------



## DonBroussard

@BRK-At least you got LRK (Little Red Knothead) to "work" with you in the shop! Great work going on in there, and watching you (and Airframer) work can either be discouraging or inspirational-I choose inspirational!

@terryR-I got my PWW magazine in yesterday and saw that article. What craftsmanship!

@Rob-Great galoots! A gazillion galoot points were added to your account!


----------



## JayT

Let's see, jmartel is stoked for oak, TOF is jacking around, Red's teaching the kids how to be a pegleg and Rob just shattered the ceiling on the galoot index.

Yep, I'm caught up.

Great progress guys. Now I know what everyone else was talking about when wishing they could build another bench. Nah, who am I kidding? I'm happy to be using my bench and trying to make a plane or two that isn't too screwed up.


----------



## theoldfart

LOL but lets take it easy on the "jacking around"! Don't want the LJ's PC police to hear.


----------



## RPhillips

Now it's time for break!


----------



## jmartel

Filled up another 30 gal trash can full of shavings from the planer. Figured I'd give the neighbors a bit of a break from the noise before I rip the boards for the second half.


----------



## theoldfart

Way to go Rob


----------



## merrill77

jmartel, red oak covers a variety of oak species, so you really can't tell by color. The sapwood of red oak can be VERY white - much whiter than white oak. I've purchased white oak that is native to my area (NC) and some of it looks much closer to red oak than the white oak I've procured from more northern locales. The easiest way to tell them apart is looking closely at a clean cut of the endgrain. The pores of red oak are big and open and can be plainly seen with the naked eye. You can frequently blow air through a short piece of red oak. White oak has cross-linked grain so the pores aren't as open (which is also why it holds up outdoors and red oak does not). Red oak smells terrible when cutting…white oak is much more pleasant. There is also a chemical test you can do (sodium nitrate, IIRC), but most of us don't have that laying around the shop.


----------



## RGtools

Holy crap Rob. All that sweating and straight to the booze. Manly, very manly. Might I recommend a b-vitamin and water chaser?

Awesome re-saw.


----------



## RGtools

@ Terry. I want a Japanese workbench to live in the back of my car.


----------



## DanKrager

Rob, that saw needs bigger teeth… but I guess you don't need the extra galoot points.
Looks good!
DanK


----------



## chrisstef

Props Rob.


----------



## RPhillips

Well, I had a few big ole' glasses of water, then sat down with a bit of Bourbon. I felt it was worthy of a celebratory drink…took me all day to cut through that thing.

Yeah, could have used a more fitting saw. The old Disston that I got from my Dad wasn't cutting it even after sharpening it up a bit, so I headed to Lowes to see what I could find. A 26" 11TPI Stanley was the best I could muster up.

I will not be doing this again, the kerf kept plugging up with saw dust causing the saw to bind which causes the saw to keep widening up the kerf. If anyone else tackles such a task I would reccomend finding the proper saw for such a task.


----------



## Airframer

*Rob* - You win…. that is all I have to say about that lol.


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## terryR

Awesome, Rob!!!!!!!!!!!!

If 100 of us will chip in $30 each, we can get Rob a









.


----------



## Airframer

Today so far has been a let down on the bench front. I didn't get off work till 9 this morning. Slept longer than I meant to after that and have dinner plans with the parents in a couple hours. I have my fingers crossed that I can at least get some holes made in the leg vise tonight after all that. If not tomorrow will be a long day in the shop trying to stay on schedule lol.


----------



## Buckethead

Rob has juevos grandes.

I can't believe you actually completed that rip. I am in awe of your determination.

I'd chip in 30 federal reserve notes for the RobFund.  Such manliness deserves a reward.

AF… Take a break…. Let someone (me) catch up. I had all day to work, but I took the day to spend with my girls, and rest up after an active and productive week of engaging in commerce. Tomorrow, I do something. I'm thinking I'll get my trestles cut and bottom mortises cut into front legs and tenons in the rear. Sounds wacky? Front legs reach the floor, rear legs shoulder on top of the lower trestles (feet?).


----------



## jmartel

Second half is ready for glue-up. I'll dump some glue on it and throw it in the clamps after dinner.

Managed to rout out one of the slots for the wagon vice on the wrong side. Damn. Oh well. I did another board on the correct side and will just throw that other one in the rest of the stack. Other than that, the rest of the time spent working on the bench went pretty damn well.


----------



## lysdexic

Rob - you are my hero.


----------



## Tugboater78

Definitely deserve that knob creek!


----------



## jmartel

Routed/Chopped out the sections for the wagon vice. I'll make some lower guides that will be added in later to allow adjustment.










Currently in glueup:









This slab is just under 13". The first one is about 12 1/2"


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Rob- that's how I take my bourbon. I like your style.

Don- "watching you (and Airframer) work can either be discouraging or inspirational-I choose inspirational!" Good. I definitely don't want to discourage anyone with my pace. I'm borderline obsessed with woodworking. I started on LJs to learn more myself. But I post stuff not to compete or discourage…..I want to help and encourage ya'll. This is my idea of a good time

I did sneak out there a bit today. Pegged the legs into the top:









This one's pretty good. Others might need a few wedgies.









Need to flatten the top next. It's got a slight sag in the middle. Even at my height, I might need a step lug the heft and hubris across this one. It's about 46" tall.


----------



## mochoa

Rob, sorry I ever doubted you, you are the Man!

Red, great tip on the assembly method.

Terry, you see the 2×4 bench in the background of the Japanese woodworker. Why doesn't it look like crap in his shop like it does in mine?

Way to go martel, moving along pretty quick considering your having to do a lot of laminations.


----------



## widdle

Lotsa work goin down..nice..


----------



## Airframer

*Don* - I missed your comment earlier but I have the same thought process as Red. Not trying to discourage anyone. I mainly (overly) share with the group because I am genuinely surprised at what is taking place in my own shop. Each thing that gets finished is a first for me and it's exciting and just hope others can get excited by it too. As for my work ethic.. well.. that has been beatin' into me by the good 'ol USN and now I just can't sit and let something go un-done. It gets borderline crazy at times. Luckily my wife has learned to live with it lol.

*BH* - Sorry bud.. no such luck heh. Got home from dinner… put the boy to bed and have started back up on the vise.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

+1 to the great wife tolerating my focused/obsessive behaviors


----------



## terryR

+2 on how important a supportive wife is to shop progress!  Right this moment, MY wife is sketching out stuff she wants inside her new 450 square foot chicken coop…like tables with no legs so cleaning the floor is easier! But, that's OK…my shop time will come…

Maur, yeah, I noticed how clean that 2×4 table was in the background of the japanese shop…it's actually a sink! I really like the work ethics of the older generation; seems to me the quest for perfection is more important than how many widgets you make. Gotta keep some of that in the back of my old brain…


----------



## jmartel

Man, I went out to the garage today and started hand flattening the 2nd slab with the No. 6, and now my elbow is killing me. I think I have it flat enough to throw through the planer later, but still. That's putting a bit of a damper on my plans.

Hopefully I'll be able to get at least started on leg glue-ups today.


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## BigRedKnothead

A bench this height(46") isn't the easiest to flatten…..but I think it will be perfect for a moxon vise and dovetails.


----------



## chrisstef

The flip flop curl for added stability. Strong.


----------



## theoldfart

Wall till is registered in Colorado!

Your next kid, once I finish with the table. (demonic laugh) HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya like those OSHA approved flip-flops….lol. Doubt my shoulders will be as sore as Rob's, but that was a workout.


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, your cheerleader looks occupied with other interests. A few "YEAH YEAH GO DAD. GO DAD. GO GO GO DAD" would be nice every now and then, no?


> ?


.
DanK


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## BigRedKnothead

I know Dan, not sure what she's doing in that pic. She will sit on my bench and hang out with me for hours. She's a keeper
Other day at the store she told the cashier, "Dats my da-da. He a big da-da. Ya he a big, big one." Lol.


----------



## Airframer

Well, today was frustrating to say the least. One of those "if it can go wrong it will" kind of days but I managed to get it hanging at least.










Now I need to go to the store and get some supplies for the front lower roller and some reinforcement of the upper chain sprocket mortise.


----------



## Boatman53

Eric what kind or reinforcement are you talking about?
Jim


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## Airframer

well, my legs are ceder (beginning to regret that choice) and I want to get some tin and bend it to the shape of the axle mortise to keep the axle from being pulled through the leg when it compresses in and down.. hope that made sense. Just me being paranoid but this stuff compresses somewhat easily.


----------



## Boatman53

That makes sense. Half the force will be on the end grain so that will help. You might want to use longer screws on the lower bracket. You cold start out the the screws in the kit and monitor the first month or so to see if they loosen up any. I did one with fir legs and had no issues so it might be ok, but that cedar is deffinatly soft.
Jim


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## jmartel

Total for the top ended up being 28 sticks of oak. Current width is about 25".










My initial plan was to do a tool well right down the center. The final width would be 30" if I do that.










I keep going back and forth about whether or not I want a tool well. If I do, it will have a cover built for it that will sit flush with the top such that it will turn into one solid surface.


----------



## waho6o9

I think a tool well is wise, you don't planes to fall or a

chisel to gouge ya.


----------



## JayT

Lots of arguments both for and against a tool well.

My workbench doesn't have one, as I feel it is just a place to collect dust and shavings, but my bench also sits against a wall. With that arrangement, the tools can be placed back in their "permanent" spots when I am not using them and still never be more than an arm's length away. If your bench is in the middle of the shop, away from the tool storage, I can sure see the need/desire for a tool well.

That's the long winded way of saying, think through how and where you work and then decide what is best for you.


----------



## terryR

Love my tool well…since the bench is in the middle of the shop, I don't have the wall hanging option for tools yet.

Recently, I cut 6 square holes in the floor of my tool well up against the bench's top…allows F style clamps to be used at that far end of the top, but also allows for debris to fall through. Heck, I even modded a shop vac fitting so that it will fit in one of the holes, and I just brush debris to that corner of the well.

BUT, gotta remember to check for tiny tools before the hungry shop vacs gets used! Best solution I've found is try to keep the tool well clean of debris with frequent cleanings. All I've lost so far is a small pink eraser. I think! LOL

Edit…I'll try to get a photo of tool well addition today…


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## merrill77

I included sliding tool trays in my bench design. I wasn't sure if I would like the trays or not - never had a "workbench" before this. I can slide them this way and that to arrange them as needed or put a clamp where I need it. I occasionally slide them all out to dump out the dust and sort through whatever else has collected in them. My bench is littered with dog/holdfast holes, so I need somewhere to put screws and such where they won't end up falling through the bench  So far, I haven't questioned the choice.










I can also flip the trays to give me a surface level with the rest of the top.










I even made a solid block with a few extra holdfast holes, just in case the existing 45 holes didn't give me a hole where I needed it. That's 49 holes, not counting the 12 in the sliding dog blocks  I tell my friends it is a Swiss Woodworking Bench 










My trays have a UHMW strip on each side that rides in a groove on the edge of the benchtop. I might consider changing that to have the trays supported from the bottom instead. This would allow me to pull out any tray instead of having to slide them out the ends. I didn't do this originally because I didn't want the supporting ledge to interfere with clamping along the inner edge (and adding the groove is much easier before assembly than after).


----------



## waho6o9

That's one fine bench there Merrill77


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Ditto to what Waho said.


----------



## chrisstef

Ill third that sentiment. Wow.


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## jmartel

Yeah, my tool well idea was to use sliding trays like you have, merrill. I've got a couple other ideas rather than just boxes to put in there, but for the most part, that's the idea.


----------



## lysdexic

Merrill77 - that is very handsome bench.


----------



## RGtools

That bench is cool. But My favorite part is how you are managing to use holdfasts in square dog holes. The more I think about that the more I realize that should work…does it?


----------



## lysdexic

Ryan - I noticed that as well. Duh - Palm to forehead.


----------



## merrill77

Ryan - yes, the holdfasts work great in square holes. I wondered about that as well, so before building my bench, I built a small "benchtop" for testing (approx 3"x24×2.75") and performed an unscientific test of round holes vs square for holdfasts (square holes in two orientations - parallel and diagonal). I could not tell any difference in the holding power. I considered doing a more formal test using a device to measure the linear force needed to move a piece, but I was eager to get started on the bench so I got lazy. I'm watching closely to see how the square holes wear over time. With use, the straight edges are starting to show a little "rounding", which I expected. So far, it doesn't affect the bite at all. Gramercy recommends a bench thickness 1 3/4" to 3" thick for their holdfasts. Mine is 2.5".

I chose square holes because a square hole can take both round and square 3/4" dogs, so I can use round rotating dogs for holding irregular shapes when needed or use square dogs for better grip on the more common rectangular work pieces. Square dogs are easier to make in mass, and the square holes are a LOT easier to make if you do it as part of the assembly of the top. A few minutes at the table saw with dado stack and all 45 holes were done. Keeping all 3 rows of dog holes aligned during glue-up and assembly was harder


----------



## RGtools

^thank you for that bit of education. I never thought of shaping the dog holes to be compatible all around. That's a pretty good option of you ask me.


----------



## BrandonW

Round peg through a square hole. Mind blown.


----------



## merrill77

Well, square holes are likely not compatible with some commercial round dogs, which have a spring of some sort to hold them in place. When turned to the corner, I'm guessing the springs would not engage and the dog would fall through the hole. I only plan to use shop-made wooden dogs…


----------



## JayT

Nice bench, merrill77. I bet these commercial dogs would still work well in square holes.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jeepers! Brandon's back! I was going through withdrawals


----------



## JayT

Brandon's back

He must have finally recovered from the stress of running the marking gauge swap.


----------



## merrill77

JayT - Thanks! I've never seen those, despite spending a fair amount of time in Woodcraft. Those are the first I've seen that I'd like to try. They're going immediately onto my xmas list - that is a perfect stocking-stuffer price


----------



## donwilwol

I love those Kreg bench dogs. I'm not sure about the square hole thing, but the dogs are great.


----------



## BrandonW

He must have finally recovered from the stress of running the marking gauge swap.

Haha, I won't dismiss the accuracy of that statement.

For the price, those Kreg bench dogs are nice, although I'm afraid of cranking down too hard on them with the vise.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^I figured either you were writing your dissertation…..or you were fried after running the swap.

Done schmooovin' my joinery benchtop. Finish goes on tomorrow.


----------



## BrandonW

Yup, Red, it's a bit of both. Mainly the former, though.


----------



## widdle

Nice Bench merrill, do ya have a wider shot of it..


----------



## Airframer

Red - That bench is going to be sweet! Any plans for vises besides the moxon?

Here in the AF shop not as much was accomplished as I had hoped this weekend and it's probably because I said I might be able to finish it by today lol…. should have known better ;-)

Got the roller done last night.










Now I just need to install the chain, do some sanding shaping and start attaching legs!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nah Eric, Just the Moxon planned. The cabinets below will probably take longer to make than the bench
btw, your leg vise is gonna be the shizzzle.

Pic updates for flattening the top. Here's a cheezy staged photo for those who haven't flattened a benchtop. Start in the back with a jack plane taking off the high spots. You can scribble/mark those areas. I just eyeball with a steel rule. Then diagonal with a jointer plane…alternating sides and directions until you get full length shavings. Then a jointer plane long ways.










Last, smooth as you like. Wish I had a pic of the sweet shavings my LN 62 took off the end grain. 









I got one coat on the top tonight. Just wiping on thinned poly. Not really worried about this bench being slick. But I do want it to resist oil and dirt. 









The two drawer/cabinet boxes below will have knotty walnut drawer fronts. I think it'll look pretty cool.


----------



## waho6o9

Amazing work my friend.


----------



## widdle

nice red.


----------



## Tugboater78

Sweet red

AF that is lookin good!


----------



## lysdexic

I tell ya. When I started woodworking I just did not care for Oak. I don't like the big, open grain. Instead, I favored tight grain woods like maple and cherry. However, after seeing all these oak work benches I've changed my tune. There is something about the edge grain of oak that you get with these face laminated benches. They look so solid.

Next bench I make will be oak.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ I hear ya Scotty. I still don't care for plainsawn red oak. It's been so overused cheezy cabinets that past 30 years. Ruined it for me. I'm not crazy about the plainsawn top of my joinery bench. But it's a 2" solid oak, and it was cheap.

The "edge grain"...or really the quarter and rift sawn grain of oak… that's where it's at. You don't see many antiques made with plainsawn oak. They knew better, but we got away from sawing oak as we should. Of course quartersawing lumber creates more waste. But making a bunch of ugly "oak express" furniture that people are going to throw away in five years is even more wasteful.

That said, if I could get some other woods like hard maple etc. for $2 or less a board ft, like I can white oak, who' knows what I might have made my benches of.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Random oak bench pic:


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Great book btw. Amazing the impact that tree had on our history. Skim the early parts about acorns….it gets a lot better after that.


----------



## lysdexic

Of course I'd like flat sawn oak if it came as a reclaimed 12/4 3 ft by 6ft solid slab :^)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sounds like quite a sacrifice to me…

Red, that's a fine joinery bench you put together. Good and fast, incredible work!


----------



## lysdexic

Didn't you say that it was originally a threshold?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yup, somewhere there's a pic of the underneath, still painted gray with sidelight dados…


----------



## widdle

Nice piece of hardware you got there smitty…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That is heft and hubris, fenced in. Thanks, Widdle.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Smitty. I surprised myself building it in 2 weeks. The cabinets will take longer.

Scotty, I know you said your moxon is a pain to lug around, but how do you like the benchcrated moxon hardware? It's really not that bad of a price comparatively.


----------



## lysdexic

It's not that big of a pain. I store it on the shelf under my bench. The addition of the table top and legs adds the most weight. Still it would be nice as a permanent fixture.

I like the BC hardware but its all I have ever known. I like to spin the wheels. It's the simple things. You can most certainly do the same with cheaper but I already had BC hardware on my bench. I don't regret it.


----------



## Airframer

Annnnnnnnnd.. leg vise is done (aside from some final shaping)..










Almost 9 1/2" capacity 










I'll update my blog tomorrow with more build pics and info.

This also means that tomorrow is a Leg Day Finally!!!!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Huzzah!!!


----------



## theoldfart

Smiity, 386 fence?


----------



## CL810

*BRK *- Nice bench!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Great job BRK. Thanks for the tip on flattening.

Congrats Eric! Nice work.


----------



## merrill77

@widdle - the bench is still a work-in-progress, but I have some wider-view pics.

Here is one from the end which shows the planing beam along the right side. I probably have a picture somewhere of the planing beam in use, if it isn't obvious.










Here is the side that has the leg vice, which uses a pipe clamp. The picture is wide and LJs is trimming it to fit…so you'll need to view the whole image for the wider view.


----------



## Boatman53

Merrill nice modifications on the New Fangeled Workbench. I like what you've done to it. I've always admired the original but I like yours better.
Jim


----------



## AnthonyReed

Cabinets done yet BRK?


----------



## merrill77

Jim - thanks. I stole the planing beam right off of John White's design (NFWB) - and it works just as well as advertised in his video…perhaps even better. It is much quicker to use (IMO) than a leg vice and sliding deadman. I built an end vice on my last workbench using pipe clamps, so I knew they would have plenty of holding power. But I didn't care much for the NFWB's use of the pipe clamps in the center well - I wanted a real wagon vice. And a thicker top for strength and to work well with holdfasts. And I thought I could improve on the washer-and-pin design for the face vice. So I started modifying the NFWB design to accommodate those improvements. About the same time, I picked up Schwartz's first workbench book and was quite impressed with his analysis of the different needs for holding a workpiece and how various clamping methods measure up (chapter 2 or 3?). After reading that, I headed to SketchUp and designed the bench from scratch to accommodate pipe-clamp based vices (wagon, end, face and leg). There were a lot of requirements to consider, but the final design was not particularly challenging (for me) to build. Partially because I picked the easiest joinery that would work (and be sturdy) for each joint.

The NFWB would be a much easier build, though…and my personal opinion is that the NFWB is one of the best options for most beginner woodworkers. Particularly those who are trying to get more hand-tool work into their routine (I haven't actually built or used one, though).


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Cabinets done yet BRK?

Unfortunately not. I tacked down what will be the bottom of the cabinet….and that's how she'll sit for a while. I know, rather anti-climatic
Ya, like I said when I started it, I don't have the wood or hobby money(pricey hardware) to finish it yet. But I really needed the counter and shelf space…..so I embarked anyway. 
Ya…ya…all my 100percenter talk, and I have two things in my shop (french cleat tills, joinery bench) half done….but oh well. I'll knock out some comissions I've been putting off and get back to it. It'll give me some more time to plan. 
Even half done, I like it. Last coat of finish drying.


----------



## Tugboater78

She's purtty brk


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks man. Here's a couple more shots if your interested. I'm not a gonna post it as a project until it's actually done.


----------



## BrandonW

Great bench, Red. I think that will complement your standard bench very well.


----------



## RGtools

Pretty.

*Red. * What Kind of Jointer/planer is that? Do you like it?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ryan…lol. I get asked about that bugger a lot. It's a Jet "benchtop series" 10" combo machine…..and it'a piece of crap. That's why I have a grizzly jointer now. It still functions as my planer, but I can't wait to get rid of it. The Amazon reviews tear it apart sufficiently.


----------



## Buckethead

Red… Beautiful. I like it how it sits, though I'm sure your cabinets will add utility and beauty. Still can't believe how you powered it to completion. Admirable.

AF, you have me reconsidering the wedge powered leg vise. The wedge powered leg vise actually seems like a simple build for me, because I can see it ( in my mind without straining ) and it is probably the most economical. Your chain vise however… Incredibly efficient functionally. No pegs… No wedge to manipulate… Just crank to whatever position. Blam! And the bench is beautiful as well.

I read all the discussion about oak, and I fully concur. Plain sawn oak, I'm not crazy about, though some pieces are fantastic. Quarter sawn, however, is magnificent. I don't think I considered it until I came here. Now I want to build an oak bench as soon as my maple bench is complete. Perhaps by 2016. 

Lots of other discussion, which for the sake of brevity, I'll leave alone, except to commend Merril on that fantastic bench. It is a work of art.


----------



## donwilwol

some real "awesome" posted here recently.


----------



## Tugboater78

+1 to what Don says..

Tryin my damnedest to get as much 1/4 sawn pieces of the oak I have on the upside of my bench. Every 2/3 of my boards is thankfully. Did some scrub work on a few more pieces today just to feel better about not getting anything done on that project in the last 3 weeks. Next time I am in I have to get my handplane, for the swap, done before anything else.

I have a halfway functional shop now, gained a few new toys and made a home for them. I have my plane and chisel sharpening skills, maybe not perfect, but good enough that I have a permanent bald spot on my arm from tests. Thanks to my new strop and practice. Broke down and bought a blue box rip/xcut Japanese saw since my current hand saws need a sharpening, that'll be another skill to work on soon.


----------



## jmartel

Hopefully I'll be able to get some more work done on Thursday. Going out to eat tonight and tomorrow I'll be picking up 70 or 75 bdft of Walnut for a table/chair build.


----------



## Airframer

*Buckethead* - If you are interested in the Chain Vise portion of my vise you need to hit up Boatman53 . It is his product and a mighty fine one at that. Does exactly what it says it does and was relatively easy to install.


----------



## DonBroussard

I really shouldn't read this thread right at bedtime. I suffer from awesomnia every time. You'd think I'd know that by now!

Nice work, fellas.


----------



## lysdexic

Don, you speaketh the truth about not hitting LJs right before bed.


----------



## RaggedKerf

Whew…I just finished reading this entire thread all 143 pages and 7129 replies. It took me a week. I feel like I just finished MY bench just by reading this monster thread. WOW. Kudos to you guys, amazing benches, thanks for all the laughs and inspiration too.

Got me all motivated to redo the chop on my leg vise to spruce up the threaded rod vise I currently use. It wobbles. A lot. But after reading through all this…I've figured out how to do it. Well, maybe. I meant to hold off on it until I finished the other 20 projects I've got going on at the moment, but hey, who doesn't want ANOTHER thing to work on in the shop.

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to all the contributors here--this thread is perhaps the single most useful, informative, instructional, and damn-funny thing I have ever read on the internet.


----------



## chrisstef

Steve - i hope that the thread has not changed you as a person. Falling in the vortex has been known to alter ones psyche forever.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Stef, perhaps he came to the thread seeking personal change… Hmmm?

Congrats, Steve, on muddling through the depths and emerging with motivation enhanced! Pics, pls, of wobbly threaded rod vise. We like pics, you know.


----------



## Mosquito

haha, welcome Steve. If you're not scared of us yet, then you'll fit right in 

+1 to what Smitty said. We like pictures 

My leg vise wobbles a bit too… I just put up with it for now, I guess. I do hear where you're coming from, though.


----------



## DaddyZ

Nice Bench Red !!


----------



## RaggedKerf

*Stef*, nothing changed me like the first shnick from a well sharpened, decent hand plane. That was like a bolt of lightning down my spine and I still grin just thinking about it. That changed me from someone who screws around with wood and hand tools to someone who enjoys screwing around with wood and hand tools. But I have to say, this thread may have changed my eyeglass perscription (did most of the reading on my cell phone--ouch) 

*Smitty *and *Mos*: here ya go…spoiler alert: get ready for some laughs! I'm almost embarrassed to post these pictures here among the unbelievably amazing benches in this thread, but perhaps it will motivate me to improve my work.

So, the leg vise in question has (gulp) a 3/4" slop in it. Yes, from a vertical position, the chop wobbles 3/4" away from the front face of the bench. Here's leg vise:









Here's the wobble:















Yeeeeees….bask in the 3/4" sloppiness…the .gif I created to show the movement does a lot more than static images, but you get the idea. 3/4" is 3/4". While it doesn't affect the holding power, it does irritate the snot out of me on occasion.

And here's the culprit--perhaps the nastiest, barely serviceable garter ever. A piece of scrap metal, I don't even know what it is (or was), that I grabbed and mutilated enough until it fit around the gap in the threads on the threaded rod that I had filed down. Drilled some holes for screws, hacked out a few different shapes in the wood (yeah, that didn't work, let's turn it around and chop out some more…well, one more time won't hurt, shoot, no one's ever going to see this…) and got 'er dun. If you want the gory details, here's my blog about it from last year. In the meantime, here's the picture:









So the support guide with all the holes drilled in it is three strips of oak baseboard trim removed from our bathroom remodel last summer, planed and glued together to the size I wanted. Then I drilled holes in it. Egads, I haven't thought about this thing since I made it last year when I was still using a Groz plane, before I got the drill press, before I got half my clamps and even knew what the heck I was doing. But, hey, it works and the screwdriver pin works too lol









And the cool thing about threaded rods (besides being cheap) is you can have a pretty big leg vise. Mine opens to a little over 12" but I don't feel safe going past 11 1/2".









So yeah…I'm going to redo this little gem. I took a look around the shop and have lots 1×10 pine left over from another project, so I'll likely laminate that up again for the new chop. The one I use is two layers of 1" pine and while it bends visibly a little, it still holds like a champ. The new one may have 4 or 5 layers. I'm done screwing around lol. Also, I'm thinking of using a mortised in block of oak cut in two for the garter instead of the metal whatsit that doesn't fit. This way I can plane the oak to fit the flat part on the rod and (hopefully) reduce that slop to nothing.

Course that probably means I need to add some rollers to the support board down at the bottom to keep that thing from binding up….more stuff for the to do list.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^No need to bashful here brother. Only a few masters on this site(some self-proclaimed…lol). The rest of us are at different places on the journey. I've come a long ways, but I'm not even the best woodworker on my street…so that keeps me humble


----------



## RaggedKerf

Well, *Red* thanks for the kind words, but from where I stand, you are one of the aforesaid master  beautiful work you're doing!

In the end, since the leg vise, including wood, cost me $18 or so, I can't complain, but man I'm itchin to prove to myself I can do better now. I've monkeyed with this thing for a year now and figure I got my money's worth lol


----------



## theoldfart

*Red*, might talented street. 
*Steve*, your one leg up on me. I'm getting ready to do my first! Nothing out there that can't be made twice. Keep on pluggin'


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Steve, are you a southpaw?

Those pictures reveal some serious passion for hand tooling, IMHO. Love them. Not exactly sure I understand where the slop is coming from, as the side-by-sides don't show a 3/4" gap appearing between the handle and chop. But you know it's there and have a plan to fix it, which is cool. Know there's vise screw hardware out there that can be had pretty cheap too, under $50, that'll color your world if so included. Also flea mkt stuff and the like is possible.


----------



## RaggedKerf

Yep, *Smitty*, lefty and proud. In the same boat with Napoleon, Julius Caesar, and Jamie Lannister. It's a little challenging every now and decoding plans/articles, etc made for conformist righties, but I muddle through. 

As for the slop, I'm 99% sure it's a result of the garter being 1/16" thick, and the flat spot filed in the rod's threads being…oh…maybe 1/8-1/4" wide. The result of me trimming more and more threads in an attempt to get the dadblasted thing to not lock up when I turn the handle back on installation day. I won't know for sure until I try my oak garter that fits the gap theory. I tried the whole flea market/garage sale route but I have terrible luck with that sort of thing. I still look though…my dream is a LN or Benchcrafted rig one day lol


----------



## chrisstef

Game of thrones ref ^. Strength.


----------



## CL810

Steve
nothing changed me like the first shnick from a well sharpened, decent hand plane

Sig line worthy. You spoke for many.


----------



## woodcox

I started out in left field until my ol'man said "better learn the right way boy. Lefty guns are expensive!" 
Little progress today scrubbing all the dirt, dust and tire marks off my found oak. Ripping that heavy thing was a bit much for me and my t/s. I sure created alot more work for myself. I got four 3x's out of it though.


----------



## widdle

Good set up there woodcox,,,


----------



## jmartel

Instead of working on the bench today, I bought a bunch of Walnut for $4.75/bdft. May not be the greatest deal out there, but I'm looking at $6.75 minimum if I were to buy it from anywhere else. I got enough for a coffee table and a morris chair. Those will be the winter projects.


----------



## Airframer

Guess what is happening tonight?










Oh yeah.. it's time to pound some pegs finally!


----------



## Tugboater78

GitRdun!

Steve nothing changed me like the first shnick from a well sharpened, decent hand plane

Sig line worthy. You spoke for many.

Done…


----------



## chrisstef

AF - I wouldn't smoke all those at once bro but if you decide to anyway …. give a brotha a call!


----------



## RGtools

Woodcox. I wish I would have thought of that when I built mine. All these great ideas ripe for the picking and I did not know where to find them.

Oh well.

*AF* have extras handy and wax the pins before you start. You will thank yourself later. Also, if you have an alignment pin handy, that is a good way to unstick a stuck pin.


----------



## DaddyZ

Stef - Kerf ^

So is mother Dragon gonna kick some a$$ or what


----------



## woodcox

My temp bench is a 2×12. Wall bracket under the vise, filing cabinet on the other end where I keep all my doughnut receipts filed under *D*.


----------



## mochoa

So much great progress here lately. I've been too busy to spend too much time on LJ.

Woodcox, I like that wall mounted bench. I like all the floor space it opens up.

Red the bench came out great man!

Merrill, that bench is friggin' awesome man!


----------



## RaggedKerf

*Tugboater*, my first sig line! I'm humbled someone thinks something I spouted is worthy

*DaddyZ*, I don't know…it's hard to remember the plot lines since things are a bit jumbled on the show compared to the books…and I haven't read the last book yet…Thinking of carving a little Taryaragen (sp?) Dragon on the new chop lol got some carving chisels itching to be used…


----------



## BillWyko

Alright guys, here it is. The WYKO bench. Here's a pic & a link to my post, please enjoy.









http://lumberjocks.com/projects/88661


----------



## DanKrager

HM, that is a classy piece of furniture. Keeping drink coasters in the tool tray boxes? Don't show this to the Mrs. lest she want it in the kitchen… 
DanK


----------



## BillWyko

That's one thing I fear after I'm long gone, someone will take off all the vises and use it for a cutting board. I'll come back from the dead and make them cut their fingers off. LOL JK


----------



## Airframer

Nice Job HM! Don't forget to add the tag "smackdown" to it so it gets listed with all the others from this thread here


----------



## RaggedKerf

I promise I'll have something witty to say after I pick myself up off the floor. Stunning work, HM!


----------



## chrisstef

HM - i cant say enough about your bench. Masterpiece comes to mind. I do wanna say that the truck in the background is slightly ironic.


----------



## RaggedKerf

Ok, as an artist and an aspiring carver, I can't stand not decorating my bench…just haven't had time before, other than my initials carved with the date on my first leg chop. So, thanks to thinking about Game of Thrones and listening to viking metal, I've come up with a design for my new chop. Here's the detail on the planned relief carving. Not sold on the banner yet, but I saw an article recently in PWW about carving linen folds that can be applied to banners and want to give it a go. Letters scare me. But if I don't try it, I'll never learn, I suppose!









I'm thinking of either carving straight into the face of the chop or routing out a circle and carving this in some basswood I have on hand and then dropping it in like I did with the medal chest back in April. It was a blast and a LOT easier than I expected.

So my question--am I just a nutjob out here wanting to gussy up my bench or is there something I don't know about (lol too stupid or too newb to know better?). I have seen a lot of GORGEOUS benches on this thread, don't get me wrong, just curious as to why no one took the next step? I looked up "carved leg vise chop" on Google and ended up with a dozen or so of my own pictures lol Am I the only one that thinks this is a good idea?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I think it'd be cool!


----------



## BTimmons

Steve - Maybe you'll be a trendsetter. And if you are crazy, at least it's the harmless variety of crazy and not the kind that gets you on the evening news with your neighbors saying, "We're so shocked, he seemed like such a normal guy…"


----------



## mochoa

Red this your hobby man, who cares if others don't think its OG. If the inspiration hits you then do it!

I would love ro carve something dope in latin but the right frase hasn't hit me.


----------



## lysdexic

Diminutive testicles - that's my only reason


----------



## jmartel

Got my legs laminated up today. I'll Rip/plane them down to final size tomorrow. I may need to get more wood for the leg vice though. I don't have anything wide enough, and I'm slowly running out of oak.

Vice hardware should arrive from Lee Valley on Monday.


----------



## BillWyko

Thanks guys. How can I add the tag Smackdown? I was too late to edit the post. I look forward to being in such talented company.


----------



## Brit

HumidorMinister - Go to your project page for your workbench, edit the post and then you'll be able to add the tag. Then anyone who searches for 'Smackdown' will see it along with the rest.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Steve- not a nutjob. If I had any carving skills, I would do something with my chop.


----------



## Boatman53

Hey ragged I think you should carve away. I have some ideas that I wanted to do on mine and still might. Most benches are a work in progress anyway. I mostly didn't at this point because once it became functional I put it to work. Maybe this winter I'll make the time to finish it. 
Jim


----------



## merrill77

Ragged - I've considered my initials and the year…letters are about the only thing I've had any carving success with. If I was going to try something more challenging, I'd practice a lot before I put chisel to bench.


----------



## chrisstef

Steve - hell and yes on the carving. It'll take some chops to chop your chop. Do that thang!


----------



## donwilwol

am I just a nutjob

Probably, welcome to the club.


----------



## chrisstef




----------



## TerryDowning

RE: Decorating the bench
Yes, you are definitely an obsessed nut job and definitely in the right Support Group (Read - "crowd of enablers")
If I had any carving skills I'd be thinking about it. The carving is an awesome idea. Keep us posted!
Shipwright did a marquetry for the chop on his V-8 Powered wedge bench

HM: That's not a WORK bench, rather FINE shop furniture Nicely done sir! Congrats on a Top 3 first page project!

RE: the fear of a workbench ending up as a kitchen island:
Personally a workbench as a kitchen island is not nearly as offensive as some of the "design" offerings I've seen done to benches. Coffee tbales? Potting Bemnch (Really??) , painted plant stands? WTF!?1? 
At least as a kitchen island it stills sees some edged tools on its surface and is being used for some sort of work rather than than some modified decoration with a humiliating paint job.


----------



## lysdexic

Still, nothing beats this guy....


----------



## chrisstef

That blog entry on the benchcrafted site was utterly confusing. Was it Decker who built this tv stand? (I wont even call it a bench).

Re-reading it, he was the builder, and if he was not active military id have stronger words.

Stef no likey. Also, is that a friggin vizio? Seriously youre gonna build a $2,000 tv stand and slap a $300 TV on it. Cmon man.


----------



## theoldfart

No way I'd pound mortises in that, keyboard just shorted*&^%$#@! drool


----------



## merrill77

If I could build a bench (or anything) that nice, it sure as hell would not sit in my workshop. It would be out on display for everyone to see. I could not work effectively on something so pretty…every little nick would send me into depression.


----------



## BillWyko

I don't know man, I think mine will hold a bigger TV. LOLJK.

I have to say though, i find myself keeping a damp rag near by to clean off any glue drippings. Never was an issue in the past. I know there will come a day when I forget and it starts seeing normal wear & tear. (Not today though


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I wouldn't mind having a tv stand like that in my man cave.


----------



## jmartel

While it would be cool, that's just too much money to build a nice bench like that (including the BC hardware) to use as a TV stand. I'd beat on it and use it every damn day to try and get my money's worth.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ ya, unless I hit the lottery, I couldn't use benchrafted hardware…just for looks. But depending on the lumber, I could probably make one for similar money that I have in my current tv stand.


----------



## TerryDowning

Yeah, I'm having a hard time with all the hardware going to waste in the house. Send it to me please so I can put it to work.


----------



## jmartel

Considering the hardware alone from BC is about $800, I'll probably be able to build 3 of my benches for the cost of their hardware alone. It's looking like I'll come in somewhere between $250 and $300 for the total cost. $150 for wood, $100 for vices, and maybe another $50 for various other hardware I will likely pick up. My leg vice is going to be a bit different than every other one I've seen on here in the lower guide area. It won't be the traditional wood with a peg, won't be the chain, won't have a roller system, won't be the cross type thing, etc.


----------



## RaggedKerf

Thanks for the votes of confidence guys. I knew I felt right at home in this thread for a reason… Tiny testes aside, this is probably going to look like @ss when it's done, but as long as I fix the slop in the chop at the same time, I'll be happy. The plan is to use a layer of 2×6 pine sandwiched between two layers of 3/4" poplar, and carve the poplar on the upper layer (or drop in a basswood carving). I figure, two layers of 3/4" pine has worked just fine for the last year with minor flexing, this should be even better.

And if it works, the first time my wife sees it--and sees it as something that was created for it's own sake, and not just as a thing to make other stuff--will be priceless. Tyrion is her favorite character and she knows I am partial to the Starks. No one ever expects the dragons.

In the meantime, here is the new chop in glue up! 








This baby is twice the thickness of the original version and at least 3 times the weight. I estimate about 10 pounds to the originals maybe 3-5 pounds. Here it is 5 hours later next to it's predecessor:


----------



## DonBroussard

Re: the drool-worthy TV stand, I'd be worried about the kids and grandkids clamping their fingers (or someone else's head) in the vises just to test them out! No doubt, that's a piece of furniture and not something that I'd want to bang away on.

@Steve-Glad to see you're moving ahead with the carving. That's gonna be a sweet maker's mark and personal to you. Keep us posted on your progress!


----------



## Airframer

She will be standing by the end of the night so help me!... just not in the living room holding up the TV ffs….


----------



## jmartel

Nice job. I'm hoping to get mine standing on its own soon. I still have some ways to go though.


----------



## Boatman53

Good luck Eric.
Jim


----------



## Airframer

Annnnnnnd….. Just need to get the side stretchers glued up ;-)


----------



## Tugboater78

Yay Eric!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good times.


----------



## RaggedKerf

Congratulations! Beautiful work, Eric! I really like that contrasting color in the front on the top.


----------



## CL810

It's a peach Eric!!


----------



## lysdexic

Good for you Eric. It looks great. Are you planning a bottom shelf?


----------



## theoldfart

It lives!


----------



## lysdexic

EDIT: Oops: double post.


----------



## DanKrager

Eric, that IS nicely done. It's been fun to watch the progress and be inspired by it!
DanK


----------



## BillWyko

Excellent job & design, well done my friend.


----------



## Airframer

It is exciting indeed. I still need to: make the deadman, make a couple toolwell ramps, flatten the top and drill dog holes in it. But it is on the downhill slide now 

*Scotty* - Yep, there will be a shelf down there. Add that to the list as well lol.

I guess it's time to start thinking about different finishing options for it now….


----------



## Boatman53

Wow Eric it looks great and you get a prize for post # 7200.
Jim


----------



## AnthonyReed

Congratulations Eric. Nice work man.


----------



## Airframer

W00t! #7200! lol..  Time to sharpen up some planes…


----------



## RGtools

Congrats Eric. That is a beast and a great moment.


----------



## DanKrager

OK. The Bondo pose soon?
DanK


----------



## Airframer

Soon but it still has a little bit to go before I can call it done and Bondo pic worthy lol


----------



## Airframer

*DanK* - No bondo pose yet but will you settle for a Ryan pose lol?


----------



## chrisstef

"The woodworking Tebow" ^


----------



## theoldfart

Looks like a Rodin!


----------



## Buckethead

You are on fire Eric!

The light at the end of the tunnel.

I've become stagnent. Planning an October vacation, working crazy hours… On a red alert basis.

In case anyone didn't already know; The reward for a job well done is more hard work.

I feel certain that upon completion, your sense of urgency will double for your next project.


----------



## RGtools

I'm a pose.

That's new.


----------



## Airframer

*Ryan* - don't worry.. I think it may be a passing fad lol.

Well, I am just about ready to drill holes in my deadman but have a question for the group…

What spacing should I use for the holes and what offset is typical? I need to drill 2 sets of 3/4" holes and 1" holes (for the #203) so I will have 4 rows total.


----------



## Airframer

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd…..

Boom!


----------



## RaggedKerf




----------



## jmartel

Well I got a decent amount of stuff done today. Especially considering I spent all day yesterday driving through North Cascades National Park.

Cutting legs down to length:










Used the wood clamps as a vertical guide and the cuts ended up pretty square.

2 pairs of legs done:










Installed some new fluorescent lights to make the garage significantly brighter (had to wire in new outlets too. Sorry about the poor photo quality)










And, I got half the top surfaced through the planer.


----------



## Airframer

Very Nice! I like the clamp saw guide idea. I'll have to try that sometime


----------



## merrill77

Eric - great bench. Feels great to use it, doesn't it?

jmartel - off to a great start!


----------



## Mosquito

That's a pretty good idea jmartel. The clamps as a guide may have to be used at some point lol


----------



## mochoa

Eric, congrats on your bench build man, your sneak peek pics will be missed here.

Thankfully we have others here that are posting their journey so we can live vicariously through them and enjoy the show.

Martel, great progress man.


----------



## jmartel

Well I ordered the last remaining hardware for the leg vice. Rather than using a St. Peter's Cross, lower guide rail, chain guide, etc… I am going more modern with a machined shaft and a flanged linear bearing. Should allow the vice to open/close smoothly, prevent racking (tight tolerances on linear bearings/shafts), and make it so I don't need a pin. Plus, it greatly simplifies installation. Only thing you need to do is drill a hole with a 1-3 degree offset in the chop, and a countersunk hole in the leg. Countersink is to allow the flanged bearing to sit flush in the leg, and the offset is to guarantee that the top of the chop will touch first before the rest of the chop.


----------



## mochoa

Martel thats going to be cool. I look forward to seeing that!


----------



## jmartel

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/roubo-workbench-leg-vise-alternative-linear-bearings/

That's where I got the idea from. I'm going with a slightly larger shaft/bearing at 1-1/4". I wanted the Inch sizing instead of metric solely due to the ease of finding large Forstner bits.


----------



## JayT

I follow David Barron's blog pretty regularly. He always builds with such a high degree of precision, fit & finish that is downright inspiring. I was surprised today to see that he is building a Roubo. Already has some interesting things going on with the design. I can't wait to see how it all plays out.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^All kinds of awesome.


----------



## RGtools

^+1

Love his chest video with the drawer that drops in on a cusion of air. I have to try to do that someday.


----------



## widdle

I was just looking at that joint…Looks sorta tricky to everything to match up tight…a little fragile ? but good lookin..


----------



## RaggedKerf

*JMartel*: you got my interest up with that leg vise you're making. Sounds really cool, can't wait to see it!


----------



## CL810

*JayT *- thanks for the David Barron link. I had never seen it before. WOW is all I can say.

BTW, while on his site I stumbled onto the article about the marking gauges you made for the swap. Somehow I had missed your project post. Funny how things work out sometimes.


----------



## jmartel

Found a nice care package from Lee Valley on my doorstep when I got home from work today…










Unfortunately this changes the design of my wagon vice a bit. I had originally thought I could make it so that the screw moves relative to the bench (threaded rod does not go through the moving block but is merely fastened to the end), but I don't see how I can do that now. Looks like I need to modify the front half of the slab a bit.

Also, had to put the bench on hold briefly and start making an end grain cutting board for my sister. Part of a wedding gift for this weekend. Figured while I was at it I would make it big enough for 2 so that I can give one to my neighbor (we share a wall. I gotta do something since they put up with the noise from the garage).


----------



## RaggedKerf

Started to make the first cuts on the new chop. Man, there is no comparison to using chisels out of the package (like I did with my first chop…and thought I was doing a good job at the time lol) and getting them mirror sharp and honed. It was so much fun to slice through the poplar and reveal that oh so pretty green grain! It doesn't come through the picture very well, but I almost gasped when the first cuts revealed that light emerald wood. Wow. The old chop looks rough! Or I got a LOT better at this since last year. No, it probably just looks rough cause that's what happens when you use a chisel like a saw…










Here's the link to my blog from today about starting to work on the chop. Not very many pictures (okay, there's 2) but my session got cut short by the munchkins waking up early lol


----------



## RaggedKerf

Decided to suck it up and finish the shaping of the chop. Once my carving mallet is complete, I'll start the carving, then deal with the hardware. Whew. I earned my beer tonight. That garage is HOT, but at least I got some peace and quiet after the kiddos went down.










Chop is now beveled, sides are square and the last thing is to break the corners a bit and then hit the carving.


----------



## Tugboater78

Nice showin of a Nice Ash


----------



## waho6o9

Lambs tongue is looking good Steve.

What TB78 said, Oh yeah.


----------



## Tugboater78

Man 2 more weeks before i can have a chance to do my first bit of bench glueup..


----------



## Airframer

Does anyone have any finish suggestions for the Western Red Cedar legs on this bench? I want to put some sort of protection on them but everything I am reading suggests cedar is very difficult to finish. Wood some wax be sufficient? I'm also considering shellac. Any suggestions?


----------



## mochoa

I've used spar varnish on a WRC plantet box and it worked great. See my projects. I don't see why 3-2-1 or just some BLO wouldn work.


----------



## JayT

AF, have you read Charles Neil's comments about finishing cedar in this thread?


----------



## widdle

i like 3 to 1 , blo/mineral spirits for all shop benches, jigs etc.Simple and works good…


----------



## Airframer

I was considering 3-2-1 but have read that cedar doesn't play well with oil finishes so have ruled it out. I'll read through that thread and might have a look at that Spar Varnish.


----------



## jmartel

Well I got the shaft in today. Bearing should be here on Friday (though I will be out of town)


----------



## Airframer

Take LOTS OF PICS of the installation of that bad boy. I alllllmost went that route with my vise but chickened out at the last minute.


----------



## jmartel

Will do. Don't expect it for a little bit though. I'll be out of town from Friday-Wednesday.

You know, I knew how big it was going to be when I ordered it, but the size still surprised me (That's what she said)


----------



## SamuelP

I like this idea. It zeems solid. How do yoh attach the rod to the chop?


----------



## jmartel

Plan is to use a 1.25" forstner bit to drill down 1-2". Rough up the same depth on the rod with some sandpaper and epoxy it in. I'll drill around 1-3 degrees off 90 to help prevent it toeing out.


----------



## RaggedKerf

+1 to what Eric said…that is impressive looking. I'll be following this closely!


----------



## jmartel

Honestly I might even need to cut it down some. Unfortunately my choices on ebay were 24" and 12". So I may cut it down to something like 18" and try and find a use for the rest of it somewhere else.


----------



## waho6o9

I'd drill a hole through the other side if possible, as that rod

doesn't look like it'll cut easily.


----------



## jmartel

It's normal soft steel. Not hardened or anything like that. I figured it would take a long time but it may be doable with a new hacksaw blade.


----------



## mochoa

Between this shaft and Eric's wagon vise we are going to put benchcrafted out of business!


----------



## jmartel

I don't know about that. It's just another option for people.

For those curious, the shaft and bearing were both purchased on ebay.

Shaft was $35+5 shipping and the bearing was $27.70 with free shipping. That makes it cheaper than even the chain system.


----------



## lathu

All the things are super.It's very different compare to other things.


----------



## donwilwol

I'm pretty sure that's the first time I've heard Well I got the shaft in today used in a good way. Sounds like title #1 right there.


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## CL810

*jmartel *- who was the ebay seller?


----------



## jmartel

Zorotools for the shaft

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221191391280?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

irvineman for the bearing

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130835272064?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


----------



## merrill77

Interesting…given the tolerances required for a linear bearing to perform at it's best, I would have thought they'd be sold as matched sets. The precision manufacturing we can accomplish today, at very reasonable prices, continues to amaze me.


----------



## jmartel

I'm sure you can buy them as matching sets, however, when components are manufactured for specific applications such as linear bearings, there's basically an industry standard of not allowed to go oversized, and you are only allowed to go undersized a very small amount. In this case, 0.003". That's less than 1/256". Plenty good tolerances for my application. If it was going to be in an extremely high stress enviornment, I probably would have paid more for hardened steel rather than carbon. However, in a leg vise for woodworking, the shaft is going to be way understressed compared to what it can take.

I'm an engineer by day, though I deal with ship design rather than individual mechanical parts usually. Last job I had that was more mechanical related required tolerances tighter than what this shaft manufacturer can provide even in some areas.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Guess I'm the devils advocate. Unless that bearing locks, I don't see how that shaft will not slide in further and still cause racking on the vise.


----------



## jmartel

The bearing has 0 play in it. By definition, a linear bearing does not allow movement in any direction except axially. This could be further reduced with a second bearing or a bushing, however for this application it shouldn't require it. The forces really aren't all that great acting on it.

The 1-3 degree of extra angle of the hole I will be drilling in the chop for it will be sufficient to take up the slack in the threads. The chop and the shaft will resist the bending that will cause the shaft to slip further in the bearing.

You don't need to exert 20 tons of force onto a piece of wood to hold it in the leg vice, so bending of the chop/shaft won't be an issue.

Plus, this system has been used by many other people so far and is proven to work.

http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_71&products_id=264&zenid=bn70ng0ukc05tkvsjn2laspfo3

Those guys offer it as an option on their benches they build. Check the video.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Hhmmm. I believe ya. I'm so hands-on, I'd like to messed around with on in person.

It still seems that there will be an awful lot of torque where the shaft attaches to the chop of the leg vise.


----------



## jmartel

Well like I said, this is my first real woodworking bench. It's an experiment for me as well. I just know the physics behind it say it should work no problem, and there's videos of them working. Biggest thing will come down to me installing it accurately. If it doesn't work, I'll be a little upset at the wasted money, but I'll go to a traditional parallel guide instead. The design of this would allow me to easily switch to that should I need to.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sure. Wasn't trying to be a downer. It probably will work fine. I wonder if any of the videos show how they mounted the rod to the chop. I think a metal sleeve would work well. Like the bearing without the rollers.


----------



## RPhillips

Wow looking good guys. Can wait to see the finished projects!

I'm just getting over a cold, dang allergies… hopefully I'll be able to get back to work on my bench soon.


----------



## Buckethead

Fallen. Off. Map.

Exhausted.

Too much work. Not enough play. I'll get back in the swing when I have the opportunity. For now, I'll just steal enjoyment here with the folks moving foreword. Great work going on here, and I'm very interested to see this new (to me) rod system in action.


----------



## Boatman53

I too am curious how the shaft and bearing are going to work for you. That hadn't come out when I was developing the the chain mechanism. But don't be fooled by the forces involved. I needed to know for chain strengths etc. Here is what I measured on my leg vise. These are moderate readings but more than enough to hold a piece of wood securely. Gauge reads in pounds per square inch.
First is the clamping force of the jaw.










This is the force at 18" below the screw and just above the beam on me vise where the chain would change direction.










This is measuring at 12" below the screw.










Ast the beam or shaft gets closer to the screw the forces go up. Mathematically, it all works out also.
Jim


----------



## jmartel

If I mount the shaft with an angle off 90 degrees of 1 degree, when the top of the chop is in contact with the work being held, the bottom of the chop at the shaft will be about 0.525" further back from being directly below the top of the chop (10" from workbench top to screw, 20" to shaft). The most deflection I can get out of the shaft that I can think of as being reasonable is about 0.15". That's with a 1300lb force acting on 15" of shaft.That leaves 3/8" of deflection allowance for slop in the threads. In all likelihood I will probably install it with a 2 or 3 degree offset, leaving more room.

Again, the numbers say it will work. It will come down to me installing it whether or not it will work I am guessing.


----------



## Brit

The shaft/linear bearing will definitely work. IMO it is the best and simplest solution to doing away with the pin. I'm looking forward to this one.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jmartel. You lost me with the engineer jargon. I'm just worried about the daggum torque where the rod mounts to your sumbuckin' chop….lol.

It probably does work. I just wish in the video that guy would have put something in that vise and cranked down. Showed us it doesn't rack…..instead of the whirly whirls

And boy howdy would that be the simplest solution. Other than the installation needing to be dead nuts.


----------



## RaggedKerf

"Other than the installation needing to be dead nuts."

You said it Red--I have a hard time getting my drill press to hit the angle I'm looking for. Firepower of this magnitude can't be repelled by my tool arsenal…at least at that degree of accuracy. Jmartel you got my respect for doing this!

And I'll throw in there that besides the novelty aspect of it of this alternative to the parallel guide, it just looks freaking [email protected]


----------



## rob2

I think the top is to thin compared to th legs


----------



## Boatman53

I agree with the installation needing to be spot on. I think also it would be difficult to retrofit to an existing bench, new chop, mounting the bearing in the leg of an already built bench, etc. Keep us posted on the project.
Jim


----------



## Mosquito

Here's Richard's video of the one they sell (McGuire workbenches/The English Woodworker)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ What's with Mr. Drown's drive-by? He's done several quality projects (chest, bookstand), it'd be nice if he'd stay awhile and fill us in with a bench build he might be planning, or ?


----------



## Boatman53

Yea Smitty I thought that comment was out of the blue also. I think he was referring to the photos that I posted with the pressure gauges. 
Jim


----------



## RaggedKerf

Is he referencing a bench or one of the Kardashians?


----------



## Airframer

^ LOL!

I too was wondering what legs/top he is referencing.


----------



## BillWyko

Where can I find the thread with all the completed benches so far?


----------



## Buckethead

I would argue that Sir Mixalot has done as much as anyone to bridge the cultural divide:






Since we're doing abstracted drive by postings.


----------



## Airframer

Have a look here though not everyone has updated their search tags to include "smackdown" there is a nice showing there.


----------



## Airframer

Got the ramps made and finish on my bench this week. Just need to toss together the shelf and I can officially quit the 90%'ers club lol.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ that is a beautiful thing…


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## theoldfart

Outstanding, I,m speechless.


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## RaggedKerf

*Bucket*: I see your Sir Mixalot and raise you a Krispy Kreme. WARNING: you may wet your pants laughing at the stupidity of youth. Or cry for the future of our nation.


----------



## Buckethead

A gorgeous beast!

What'd you name 'er?

-in my best Canadian accent-

(Just watched the Crazy Canadian again. For inspiration. I wonder if that bowl he turned using his wife's Sunday go to meeting vehicle as a lathe will become a collectors item)

I'd love to watch some hockey and eat chips from it.


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## RaggedKerf

*Eric*: Woweee that is nice. That contrasting color there and the wagon vise…LOVE it. Other than the fact that the leg vise is on the wrong side, it's gorgeous!


----------



## merrill77

Congratulations, Eric, that's beautiful!


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## JayT

Stunning, AF. Great job!


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## yuridichesky

Eric, you gonna miss this bench construction process, ain't you? 

Congratulations!


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## CL810

That is one fine thing there Eric!


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## TerryDowning

Nicely done Eric!!

Your children and their children will appreciate your efforts.


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## BillWyko

AF that is one helluva stunner!!! Well done my friend.


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## Airframer

Well thanks guys! Yeah, I might miss the process a bit. Mostly the having "something" to work on lol.


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## lysdexic

What'd you name 'er?

Don't anthropomorphize your workbenches. They also hate it when you do that.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop




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## Airframer

HAH! No.. no name for it. My wife has referred to it as Willy (as in my white whale lol) but I don't think that will stick.

For S and G's I grabbed a couple shots of all the tools that were made during the build process to facilitate the building of said bench. The Moxon fits PERFECTLY on here


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## CL810

Beautifull


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## RaggedKerf

Oh man with the Moxon it's so pretty my eyes hurt. Very, very nice compliment to the bench. Love the shot of all the shop made tools!!!


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## RaggedKerf

It has begun.


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## jmartel

Yeah, setup on the drill press is going to be the big thing. That's another reason for spending a couple extra bucks on a US sized shaft/bearing. Availability of Forstner bits.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sorry Eric. Bondo poses need to be on the right thread;-P

Yes, he is smiling.


----------



## Airframer

HAH! I was hoping to bury it in the wrong spot for a bit. I mean that IS where the call out was


----------



## BigRedKnothead

It's alright. Stef called me out via PM. I showed his arse….lol

You and your uni-bomber smile…


----------



## RGtools

I would like to submit the following design to the group for heavy critique. I am starting this soon for my grandfather you has a bit of an allergy to hand tools (but I want the bench to work for me at some point as well). Gramps will be doing a fair amount of the build, so I wanted simple and robust.










P.S. I have already redesigned the cabinet a bit, but more on that later.

P.S.S. Eric I blame you for me posting this in the wrong place first.


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## chrisstef

"Men of woodworking". The calendar.

I just gagged a little. Lol.


----------



## widdle

Rg..Looks good , My initial small concern would be knee space, if the cabinets came to far forward ?


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## widdle

and double check that 10" is enough for your front vise hardware..


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## Buckethead

W00T!

That is one handsome bench!


----------



## rf58

this is what he means


----------



## rf58

yes I made this one


----------



## RGtools

*Widdle* thanks for the input. The cabinet was meant to be set back flush with the back of the leg (giving about 3" clearance for knees). I suspect that should be enough, but that is a major gripe about my current bench, so any advice on this would be appreciated. If you do set the cabinet back like that, what is the best way to support it from below?

Keep in mind this bench knocks down.


----------



## lysdexic

Ryan,

I assume the blue green lines are angle iron braces to attach the top to the legs. How about moving the 2" stretchers to the top to provide direct support to the top. Place some stub tenons on the top of the legs. Then utilize a couple lag screws through the stretchers to cinch top to the legs.

In fact, to facilitate wood movement, the stub tenons could be on the front legs and the lag screws toward the rear going through elongated stretcher holes. Thus the top stays flush at the front and expands toward the back.

For removal, take out the two lags and the top comes off.

The is how the top is attached on my split Roubo except it is doubled because of the two independent slabs. Theoretically, the expand and contract toward the center "split".


----------



## lysdexic

For base cabinet, how are you going to remove it? Will you have to take the bench top off or slide it in and out between the legs (that one was for you Stef)?

I wonder this myself for when I build a base cabinet for my bench, a la Smitty.


----------



## widdle

^ That seams like a good idea..


----------



## widdle

Edit..Nice bench rf58..


----------



## lysdexic

This is what I mean but, with a monolithic slab, you would only need tenons in the front and on elongated hole in the stretcher toward the rear.


----------



## RGtools

Scotty. I have went back and forth on the placement of that stretcher. All the reasons you stated were the pros I have on the list.

One reason I would like to leave it in place is that I would like to add a twin screw as an end vise at some future date (I am thinking 18" centers) and this placement gets it out of the way. The other thing is it creates a lip for the cabinet so things can't slide off of the sides.

I plan for the cabinet to be able to slide in and out from the front. So I am thinking I might just build a shelf on the stretchers and set it on top.


----------



## bondogaposis

I think there is some confusion here about red cedar. Western red cedar is not difficult to finish. I think some folks are thinking eastern red cedar when they talk about having problems with finishing, as it is loaded with aromatic oils.


----------



## RPhillips

*AF* that bench is gorgeous!


----------



## merrill77

@rf58 - how do you like the SS as a drill press? I've considered buying an old one primarily for that purpose. And for occasional use as a lathe. I've been told it excels at those two functions. But I don't think the low speed is low enough for my needs-I seem to frequently use it with rosette and circle cutters.


----------



## RaggedKerf

Here's today's progress on the chop…got the banner shape finalized (except for rounding edges and sanding and the numbers) and started on the dragons…










Despite the bad angle, I still like the way it's looking. Will try to get better lighting/shadows next time. More pictures on the blog update.


----------



## Airframer

I Finally got around to tying up some loose ends on the bench tonight. Basically I still needed a shelf and a lateral roller to stabilize the parallel guide and keep it from racking side to side.

Here is the roller end from the top..









And the bottom..









And now I can officially turn in my 90%'ers membership card… this dog is done!




























Now on to my tool cabinet


----------



## Airframer

I also shot a (very poorly produced) video of the leg vise in use since there has been so much talk about leg vises lately. I noticed in the video that I needed to adjust the chain a bit but it works effortlessly and holds like crazy.

Oh and the handle has a slight wobble in it because of my less than successful attempt to drill a 90 degree 1" hole in the center of the cast iron wheel lol.. ya live and learn.


----------



## yuridichesky

Eric, you still owe us a tin can crushing video


----------



## Brit

Not sure if this pinless leg vise design has been posted here before or not. Apologies if it has.


----------



## CL810

*Andy*, thanks for posting the link. That parallel guide is pretty slick and by far will be more economical and an easier install than the other options I've seen. How well do you think the joint for the guide and the chop will hold up?


----------



## rf58

one nice feature on a pattern makers vise he didn't mention is on mine anyway the jaws are adjustable out of parallel to take on a taper clamping job I use that a lot. would not have a bench with out one…


----------



## terryR

Been too busy for too long…nice work on here lately.

Eric, your bench came out awesome! Nice pose as well. 

Andy, +2 on the thanks for posting that video. A very simple solution.

Steve, the carved chop is amazing so far! Definately inspires me to mod my chop…

...carry on…


----------



## CL810

Poked around and found some more links related to the pinless vise. The first is the guy's website that made the video Andy posted. The second is a guy's site that experimented with the pinless vise but decided to stay with Boatman's chain system.

From what I found there is a problem with the chop staying square or flat with wider/thicker boards. I don't understand the ramp. Since it is angled, that allows the tail of the chop to move closer to the leg when the chop is farther away from the bench. This puts the clamping part of the chop out of flat.

It would seem to me that you would always want the tail to always be just a hair farther away from the bench then the chop. Then when the vise is tightened it pulls everything flush. What am I missing?

Here is Lars' comments:

i just went down and took some measurements. it turns out that you two are correct, the vise does not work perfectly with wide boards.

for a 3/4" board and for a 3-1/2" board, the gap at the bottom of the vise is ~1/16" greater than at the top when clamped down firmly.

for a 5-1/2" board, the gap at bottom is ~1/16 less than at top when clamped firmly.

for a 12" board, the gap at bottom is ~5/32" less than at top when clamped firmly.

i'm not sure i can think of a case where this problem actually matters, but i can speculate on why it happens.

there is some flexure in the mechanism that allows it to go from not parallel to parallel (or beyond) when clamping force is exerted. i suspect most of this is from compression of the wood under the bearings. indeed, i can feel some slight bumpiness in the bottom of the parallel guide where the front bearing has deformed it.

in theory, the angle of the vise should be maintained regardless of how far it is opened. as it is opened farther, the ramp gets thinner, but the bearings get closer together. in practice, the angle does appear to be maintained when no load is applied to the vise. however, when clamping force is applied with the vise opened wide, the load on the bearings is greater (because the distance between them is less). thus, the mechanism flexes more than when the vise is only open a small amount.

so, i think one solution would be to line the bottoms of the parallel guide and ramp with steel.

another solution would be to replace the bearings with blocks of slippery plastic or even hard waxed wood. this would make the construction of the system even simpler, although it may not glide in and out quite so smoothly.


----------



## DanKrager

Merrill77, "SS" is an ambiguous designation. I am familiar with and use SuperShop, also designated "SS" in some circles. I presume you mean ShopSmith, and I am familiar with that also. SuperShops can get to 35 rpm and maintain that under load. ShopSmith's lowest speed is much higher than that depending on the model. SuperShop is no longer in production and can be found only on used sites and sales. 
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Just a little reminder, there are 13 or so benches marked with the smackdown tag, I'm pretty sure a lot more deserving candidates for the honor! Looking for reasons why mine won't measure up!


----------



## RaggedKerf

^^Well, if there isn't some sort of rule that you have to build it while posting on the thread, I could add the smackdown tag to mine, then yours could look better!


----------



## theoldfart

Not sure what "rules" are in place for inclusion, I just wanted a place where I could look at finished benches without wading through the entire smackdown thread. After picking out what I was looking for I could look up the builder and and check out their postings.
Enlightened self interest!
Edit: The bench should be the finished product, substantially completed.


----------



## RLindberry

Here is my bench, which I just completed this morning. The reason I went with the scandavian style was primarily for the shoulder vise. It will allow you to clamp angled/wedge shaped peices, and there is no hardware running underneath it, so you can easily use it for joinery on long boards that need to stick down.

I love the tool tray, because most projects generally use the same tools often, and it is convenient to get them out of the way, but still be readily available. It is also designed to be broken down into the top, two leg assemblies, two stretchers, and the shelf. I don't anticipate moving anytime soon, but I wanted it to be as easy as possible if I need to.

I've placed holes for the holdfasts that are able to clamp just about anywhere on the bench. I work mostly with hand tools, so this is a tremendous blessing to be finished and have this tool at my disposal.

My fuller write up can be found at: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/89061


----------



## terryR

That's a sweet bench, RL.

We've sorta got a tradition starting here…after a new bench is completed, the builder is expected to pose on top of it. No, I'm not kidding. And, yes, alcohol is usually involved!


----------



## RaggedKerf

Outstanding work, RL! That is one sexy bench!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yes, very nice bench RL Sweet doves.

Don't think there are any prerequisites to the "smackdown" tag other than a finished bench, and enjoying/participating the thread.

My roubo bench was pretty much done when i learned about the thread…or I would've posted the progress.


----------



## TechRedneck

Just popped in to say hi,

I still have this thread tagged and keep up with all the goings on. Same with the HPOYD thread, the chisels thread, saws thread, Restoration before & After thread, and Mitre box thread… whew

Takes about 30 min/day of blissful tool and wood porn. Miss Al's off the wall comments but some of the others have taken up the slack. Am on the laptop tonight so adding comments with a real keyboard is easy, usually I am on the iPad in the shop or in the bark-o-lounger after a long technology infested day.

I tagged my bench build for the smackdown filter… good idea, pictures only. I started mine in the early days of this thread and should update the pictures. Still planning that sliding deadman.

carry on!


----------



## Tugboater78

Nice Scandinavian bench RL


----------



## lysdexic

What up tech ***********************************?

Waz u a workin on n d shop?


----------



## TechRedneck

Scott

Waz Zup.

Was up our cabin near Tionesta PA with my brothers, had to paint (by hand) T-111 siding. That shot my weekend, 300 miles each way to boot. The previous weekend I added an old cheaper vice to the other end of my bench. Now I have two end vices. I often found the need to clamp up the strop or clamp up a scraper to freshen the edge and always had to remove my board from the good vice to do it. Now I just walk to the other side and use the other end vice. Three vices on a small bench. Each with its own purpose.

Had some time to use the moxon and do some half blind dovetails for drawers on the never ending cherry sewing table project. Next challenge is the breadboard ends of the table top. Poor wifey has to wait for this project while I gain the skills to do it right. I'm having fun tho.

The business is taking up a lot of time. HIPAA regulations with my healthcare and legal clients are keeping me hopping. September 23rd deadline for compliance and nobody is really prepared.


----------



## JayT




----------



## lysdexic

There is a HIPAA deadline this month? Shows how much I pay attention.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

I found this thread a few weeks ago, spent two days going through the whole thing and have been following it since. There's some pretty amazing craftsmanship and creativity here. Awesome stuff!!

(Also, just joined. This is my first post. Hello lumberjocks!)


----------



## Tugboater78

Welcome to lumberjocks, NinjaAssassin. tons of info to take in, enjoy the ride.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hello, Ninja, and welcome! I'm hoping to someday contribute new work to this thread, but will also follow along in the meantime.


----------



## RPhillips

welcome ninja, lots of good info here for the taken…


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Thanks gents. I've been lurking here on and off for the last few years. Finally in the process of getting started on my woodworking adventures after years of yearning.


----------



## jmartel

Got home very late last night from vacation to find the bearing waiting for me at my front door. Didn't even take it out of the packaging. I'll take it out and test for play when I get home. I will also be picking up another board of Oak or Maple for the chop. I don't have anything wide enough at the moment and I would like at least 10" wide. How thick is everyone's chops? The plan was just to laminate 2 boards together at the maximum thickness I could get from the roughsawn boards after getting fully smoothed faces out of the planer. Should end up somewhere around 1 5/8" or more. If I can find 6/4 stock for a good price, I might do a double lamination of that to make it thicker.


----------



## BillWyko

I have to say, now that I've had the opportunity to get some solid time using my bench, You can bet I'm so glad I built it. If anyone is wondering if they should put it off or just not quite ready to get started, stop making frickin excuses and start building it. It will make your life so much easier on just about any project you can think of. Now get to work LOL. BTW if I could change anything on my build, I would have made my square bench dog holes closer together. The twin screw doesn't have quick release, the other 2 Veritas vises do, so there's no need for close spacing of the dog holes. Quick release vises are a must in my book. Keep up the fantastic work my friends and remember,,,,,Wood really does grow on trees. LOL.


----------



## JayT

stop making frickin excuses and start building it. It will make your life so much easier on just about any project you can think of.

Amen! After a couple months of using mine, I couldn't agree more.


----------



## merrill77

@jmartel said "How thick is everyone's chops?"

Mine is 2.25" (3×3/4 lamination).


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Here's the earliest pic I have of my bench build. Ready to drawbore, but legs are together. No leg vise or other holes, no planing stop yet. Guess I didn't want earlier evidence in the event the build didn't go as planned. lol










Sure different from today.










+10 to what Humidor said, too.


----------



## Tugboater78

I think I decided I will have me a Roubo..


----------



## jmartel

Post up progress on here when you do.


----------



## Tugboater78

It's been "progressing" at a snail's pace


----------



## RGtools

Smitty. Love the way a bench evolves.


----------



## donwilwol

Hello, Ninja, and welcome!

Carry on.


----------



## RaggedKerf

Welcome Ninja! I just finished reading through this, the mother of all threads myself a few weeks back.

*jmartel* re chop: one I'm using is 1.5" (2 layers 3/4" pine) and the one I'm carving on is 3" (three layers)

*Smitty* wow, nice pics. A real beauty!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

jMartel- my chop is 2" thick walnut, 8" wide. At the risk of sounding like I'm picking on you again....notice that guy in the video has a very thick chop. Think you might need need a thick one to accommodate the torque of the rod on the chop?


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Thanks Don and RaggedKerf


----------



## jmartel

No worries. I picked up a board of 6/4 Red Oak to use for the chop today. Should give me at least 2.5" if not 2.75" after finish planing for my chop. I'm sure that will be plenty.

And my counter to your picking on me is that I got the bearing on the shaft today and there is basically no noticeable play in any direction between the two. Plus, a 1.25" diameter steel shaft will bend less than a 0.75"x3" wooden parallel guide in this application. Biggest thing, like you said, is the chop. But that's like that for all leg vises.


----------



## Airframer

*jMartel* - My chop is just a hair under 2" thick.

+over9000 what HM said. My already crackhead pace has picked up enough that I almost don't have time to gather picture spam for this place while I work now lol. Having a solid workbench is a game changer for sure and if you are on the fence about it or think you aren't skilled enough I say hogwash (is that word even used anymore?).


----------



## widdle

I have to agree with humidorminister…it doesn't have to be complicated. Even something temporary with a vise is worth the effort…


----------



## widdle

Smitty..bench sure aged nicely…How did you attach your legs ?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Along with what HM was saying. Here's an old pic I found of my first bench. Built in a couple of weeks. A version of Schwarz's $175 bench. Just some laminated pine 2×8s I ripped down. Made this before I embarked on any major furniture projects. I was very proud of it at the time. 









Sidenote: I had no idea how to use or sharpen a hand plane at the time. Let's just say it wasn't flat.


----------



## RPhillips

what an evolution your work shop has had!

Nice looking bench tho…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Stubbed tenons for mounting legs to top, Widdle.

Ryan, I agree.

Steve and Widdle, thanks. Still hope to find a pic of the slab before I 'benched' it…


----------



## jmartel

Got the last of the pieces today. I think the only other thing I'll need eventually is dowels for doing the drawboring.

Hoping I can get everything except for the drawboring done on the lower frame this weekend.


----------



## yuridichesky

Here's my comeback to photo-blogging and woodworking: look how serious my "almost done" workbench is.


----------



## RaggedKerf

*Yuri *That is just about the squarest mortise I've ever seen! Nice work!

...but I have to say…I think it's watching me.


----------



## yuridichesky

*Steve* Yes, it is watching… This face used to scare me each time I came into the shop, but I hope to cover it soon with the vise chop.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yessirree Rob. It's crazy to look back and see how your shop/skills have evolved while you've been pluggin away.


----------



## Airframer

Tossed together my first workbench accessory this morning 



It's nice to have that secured down to something once again lol..


----------



## RaggedKerf

Sweetness. That was the second appliance I put together after a plain bench hook. Nicely done!


----------



## Airframer

Yep, I do believe it was your post that got the idea planted in my head lol. It works great. I just finished replacing the metal jaw faces with maple/leather faces. I am tired of those metal ones scratching up my work! These hold tighter too!


----------



## jmartel

With any luck, ill have the frame mostly completed this weekend. I flattened the other half of the top today and am getting the stretchers ready as we speak.


----------



## Airframer

You are just cruisin' along now! Much quicker than I got mine together lol. Can't wait to see some pics!


----------



## Tugboater78

How did this happen? Is it broke and I missed something?
Check out this item I found on eBay: http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=121168733918


----------



## theoldfart

Looks like a good deal, didn't see anything wrong unless the screw was frozen.


----------



## Tugboater78

Bid on it 5 days ago, never seen em go for less than 40.. got little notification I won a bit ago.. only bidder..wha?


----------



## waho6o9

That's awesome Tboater78, congrats.

Win some lose some, I'm glad you won.


----------



## Tugboater78

Now I just need to finish my Ben h so I can use it..


----------



## jmartel

Well, I made a quick jig for cutting the tenons today. Just a simple T-square. Figured this would give me actually square shoulders rather than if I were to cut them by hand.



















Got a total of 6 stretchers done.










Also did the lower mortises on the 2 front legs today. First ever M&T joints. Not perfect, but they are a sliding fit and the shoulder covers up any nastiness so it works out. These will eventually get drawbored.










I gotta say, having a bench to build this bench with would make it so much easier. Instead I have to clamp everything to my tablesaw.


----------



## SugarbeatCo

Well I made it through all 148 pages of inspiration.. . I'm gonna start my bench soon. I've started gathering the lumber (8/4 red oak), I have about 40 bf as of now. Unfortunately, theres not many hardwood dealers around these parts (bfe), but I think I sourced close to 1000 bf of 8/4 walnut and red oak for about $2-$4 a bd ft! So I should be set sometime next week. I'm still not 100% sure about my design but I'm thinking split top roubo, I want it large, like 36" x 96" x 4" thickness, stretchers 4"x6" and legs 6" x 6". 
I dont remember who it was, but at one point in this thread there was a fella that had 3 vises on his bench, leg vise, end vise and shoulder. Was wondering how practical that turned out. I'm liking the idea of a moxon twin screw for dovetails, but other than that I dont see much practical use for it in the work I do. Was thinking a shoulder vise would get me by and if I am absolutely dreading cutting dovetails from it I can build a moxon in the future. So I was thinking about the Lie Nielsen chain drive vice for the shoulder, Bench Crafted leg and tail vice. I was hoping to get the shoulder vise at 24" spacing and making it the whole width of the bench. was kinda wondering if anyone has any opinions on that. It seems like it would be practical for me, but this is my first proper bench, and hind sight is always 20-20. I don't have any plans, I haven't read any books by the Schwarz or anyone else. Just a basic idea of how its supposed to look when its done, and a basic understanding of the steps to get there. I'll be roughly 1000 duckets deep into this thing when all is said and done, and I don't see any plans available that are exactly what I am wanting to build so I thought I would just wing it. Seems to be enough wisdom and info here to get me through any tough spots I may come across. I welcome any opinions, you all have made some sweet benches. Cant wait to get started, here's some lumber porn in the mean time.
















Also, did any of you sell me this by chance?









Anyone got an extra cap n lever?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

SugarbeatCo- Welcome to the workbench nuthouse. Looking forward to your build. 
I do think $20 on Schwarz's first bench book would be well spent. I think it would answer a lot of you questions about vises and layout. There's not one right answer…just one that's right for you. 
And even though you can't find a design that's exactly what you want, that's okay. I start with something similar and just tweak it to my liking all the time.

Nice 608- if your worried about the chip on the lever cap, it doesn't affect the function at all. And it will be very difficult to find a bedrock lever cap that size. But your gonna love that thing when you need to flatten your benchtop


----------



## mochoa

Sugar, your thinking of Catrer's bench with the three vices. Look through his blogs, he does a "what would I do differently" recap with some great info.


----------



## waho6o9

Looking forward to your build SugarBC.

How about something like this:
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/83911


----------



## jmartel

Lower part of the frame is dry fit together. The gaps are just because I didn't pound it all home.










I still have to mortise the upper part of the legs for the upper stretchers, but I can't do that until I cut the shoulders on the top of the legs.

I may be able to get it glued and doweled today. If not, probably tomorrow.


----------



## RaggedKerf

Welcome *Sugarbeetco*, glad to have another build to watch!

*jmartel*, looking good!


----------



## SugarbeatCo

BRK* Would that be the blue or red book? (I'm ready to pull the trigger) As for as the 608 goes, I know the cap wont effect it functionally but I'm a bit of a collector and if and when possible I like my tools to be pristine! Thanks a ton for the info.
*Mauricio* Yeah thats the one, thanks a lot!
*Waho* Wow..just wow.. You gotta give it to Gary for the most innovative and practical reinvention of the wheel. I watched his video's and I have to admit it has me rethinking a traditional workbench. The chair vise is very interesting, but I especially like the pattern makers vise the way he has it set up. I think I would love to have a pattern makers vise one day, perhaps on another bench in the future, maybe something dedicated to carving and other "non flat work". Thanks for sharing, but I think for my first bench, I need to forget about Gary Foster's ideas and keep it fairly basic. I'm a hybrid guy, I own a cnc, and all the other fancy stuff money buys, but I'm trying to get back to basics, if for no other reason than for myself and my own personal triumphs.


----------



## Iguana

*jmartel*: How about painting that base to match your Daytona? Gold anodized legs, black stretchers?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sug- the first book is the blue one. I'm sure the 2nd one is good too, but I don't have it yet.


----------



## theoldfart

SugB, I can vouch for the RED one, many more bench designs along with what they would do differently. I'm using this one during my bench build.


----------



## SugarbeatCo

Well then.. I've got red and blue inbound like a trailer park on super bowl Sunday!


----------



## jmartel

Well I didn't get everything done today that I hoped to. Yesterday's productiveness got offset by going out kayaking, out to dinner, and hanging out with friends. This was all I could get done.










Tomorrow I will be chopping out the final mortises in the legs, and routing out the front left leg to accept the bearing and the vise screw hardware. After that it will get drawbored with glue and then I can do the final work on the top.


----------



## mochoa

Yall want to see something sexy! The owner of my local woodcraft was at the French Roubo build and his bench sits in his store so I got to see and touch it!

























Thats a 3" wooden screw and its bad aas!
I wonder who made those for them.


----------



## RaggedKerf

Wow….thanks for the bench pr0n! That is one impressive screw. Not to mention that huge slab for the top! Crazy!


----------



## Mosquito

That is sweet Mauricio. I bet it would be even cooler to use!


----------



## terryR

As my wife would say…"Wicked cool"! Thanks for posting, Maur.

That leg vise is to die for! And, I'm STILL trying to count the growth rings in the top…awesome…


----------



## JayT

Awesome, Maur, thanks for sharing that.

Weren't the screws for the project supplied by Lake Erie Toolworks?


----------



## CL810

Another reason to go to Atlanta. Thanks for posting Mauricio!


----------



## DonBroussard

@Maur-Touch, sexy, screw, and ass (ref: Post 7395). "I promise that I'm on a woodworking site, Babe. I'm just reading a post from my woodworking buddy Mauricio complimenting a workbench, and he told me he's wearing khakis (just like Jake from State Farm)"


----------



## mochoa

LOL. what you gonna do if its sexy its sexy!


----------



## JayT

DonB, don't make me laugh like that while at work!

On a side note, David Barron posted progress of his Roubo build

Teasers


----------



## mochoa

Looks like something from space invaders.


----------



## JayT

^ You can always tell a child of the '80's!


----------



## RaggedKerf

My leg vise chop carving is done! Gearing up for installation now!










Here's the blog with the rest of the pics.


----------



## widdle

^ stylin..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pretty cool Steve. I'll send you my chop


----------



## terryR

Nice work, Steve! That's going to be an awesome vise!


----------



## RaggedKerf

Thanks guys!

*Red*: ooooh can you imagine shipping charges? Lol


----------



## terryR

Seriously, if someone were to carve cool chop covers into 3/4" hardwood, I bet shipping wouldn't be too bad, then laminate it onto the rest of your chop…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I heat ya Steve. Not to mention, the top of my chop is burled walnut. Probably not the funnest to carve

edit- That's probably the way to go about it Terry.


----------



## RaggedKerf

*Terry*: Hmmm. You could even let the buyer rout out a hollow and drop the carving in for a "flush" look….got my wheels turnin. Might have to practice some though. Maybe do some freebies to test the waters so to speak. Could keep me busy this winter  If I could get enough carvers together, we could do a carving swap lol

*Red*: burled walnut… I can hear my little 6" carving chisels shrieking in fear (my hand totally engulfs the handles lol) . I was honing them every session on the poplar. I'd be grinding them every session on a walnut burl!


----------



## jmartel

Got the frame completely drawbored together tonight. I even put off dinner till 9:30 so I could get it done.










Got the bearing mounted in. I still gotta put screws in, but it's such a tight fit that it isn't going anywhere.










Threw the top on to see what it would look like.










What say you guys? I think it's beginning to look like a bench.


----------



## Airframer

Sweet! Won't be long now! It is all down hill from here.


----------



## jmartel

This build has been going very very smoothly thus far. There haven't really been any major mistakes, unlike everything else I've built.


----------



## BrandonW

Sweet Roubo build, Mauricio. I'll have to stop by Woodcraft sometime and check it out.

I love that leg vise, carving, raggedkerf. I had thought about doing something similar, but figured I'd mess it up badly.


----------



## RaggedKerf

*jmartel*: very nice! It's a little odd (not in a bad way) looking at the hole in the wood rather than a rectangular mortise, but man does it look sweeeeeet with the rod inserted.

"I even put off dinner till 9:30 so I could get it done." t cut or drilled anything in it yet for the hardware…


----------



## jap

jmartel- are those leevalley vises? I'm really interested to see how the vise goes. It is something I want to try. Good job.


----------



## mochoa

Steve the carving is looking pretty sweet man, nice job!

JM that's going to be one great bench!

Brandon, yeah go check it out. He says he doesn't have room for it in his house so it sits in the store.


----------



## DonBroussard

@jmartel-Looking good! I'm anxious to see the leg vise installation. You'll be clamping stuff to that bench before you know it.


----------



## CL810

*jmartel *this is a great build. There is one point I need clarification on. When you talk about the bearing being offset 1 - 3 degrees, is the bearing "tilted" so the back of the bearing is lower than the front?


----------



## kiyoshigawa

Welp, I finally read all of this, and while my Paul Sellers inspired tiny apartment workbench in progress isn't nearly as nice or fancy as any of yours, I figure I need to start somewhere. Here's where I've gotten to so far:










You can see the laminations from the top, and the aprons are all glued, but still need a good deal of smoothing, and I've made one half of the legs which is glued and clamped off to the side. The top has about 1/4" of twist to take out of it, but the bottoms are smooth and flat (Too bad you can't see them, eh?).

Anyways, When work lets up I'll be able to keep working on it, and hopefully get it all together in the next couple weeks, which will let me work with wood at home more often than the current 1-2 times a week I can manage now.

Here's some of my sloppy mortise and tenon joints. I figure it's not terrible for my first attempt, but I was also pretty impatient, and using a light rubber hammer to make all the mortises.










This one is the first mortise I ever cut, using Paul Sellers method ( 



 ):










Anyways, I've begun my woodworking journey. Now I just need to keep going until I can get good enough to make benches like all the ones I see posted in this thread.


----------



## jmartel

Thanks guys. I hopped on it last night, and aside from the top sliding around since it's not attached, it's quite stable. Should be somewhere around 300lbs I believe.

No, the Bearing is square with the leg. The steel shaft will be tilted in the chop such that the chop has a slight angle leaning in towards the bench. This is to ensure that the top of the chop contacts the workpiece before the bottom.


----------



## terryR

jmartel, looking great…cannot wait to see the top attached!

Tim, nice work…from one Paul Sellers' benchie to another…yes, we have to start somewhere! LOL

8 months ago, I was intimidated by the fancy benches on here. But, I learned so much building my simple bench, that I'm not intimidated at all now. No, I don't have the skills to cut huge condor tails, or build my own wagon vise…but I have the confidence now so that when I set out to shape condors, I'll practice until I get it right.

One step at a time…and share the knowledge!


----------



## RaggedKerf

*Mauricio*: Thanks man!

Welcome *Tim*! Your bench reminds me of mine when I started last summer! Eagerly looking forward to updates. Those mortises are way better than mine LOL keep up the good work. My bench's legs have a…well…rough hewn look to them. Ok, so it looks like I mortised mine with a screwdriver and a sledgehammer.


----------



## merrill77

terryR said:
> No, I don't have the skills to cut huge condor tails, or build my own wagon vise…

That depends on the wagon vice design you choose. I made mine very simple - so simple that it was very little extra effort to equip my bench with three of them! If you can build a sturdy bench, you can build this wagon vice.


----------



## yuridichesky

*jmartel*-you do impress me! I've been working on my workbench (on and off) for more than half a year now, while you're almost there already. Great progress!


----------



## mochoa

You guys see this product from Lee Valley. I just saw it in the latest calendar. Its a pipe clamp type vise but it has an external quick release button that's pretty cool.








http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=69583


----------



## jmartel

Didn't see some of these. I was only half asleep when I got to work today apparently.

jap: They are the Lee Valley tail vise screws. My wagon vise needs re-designed. I had originally thought I could put the garter end on the traveling wagon, and the screw would move in and out of the bench, but it doesn't look like I can do that, so I have to do a bit of work on the top to make the screw stationary.

yuri: I'm lucky in that I have a wife that doesn't mind me disappearing into the garage for hours on end. I think the fact that I explained to her that I can't build any of the furniture she wants without having the workbench and other associated shop items built first helps. I started on it 2nd week of August I believe. I should have it finished (fingers crossed) this week I think.


----------



## merrill77

That quick-release pipe clamp fixture is pretty slick. IIRC, I was designing my bench when I first saw those. The price was a bit higher than I thought reasonable, though. I'm sure the quality is great…but hard to justify at nearly 4x the cost of Rockler's Surefoot pipe clamps ($16/ea…or $9 for HF clamps). I'm not fond of the handle design on the LV clamps, and it has only 2/3 of the travel of generic pipe clamps.

OTOH, the lower profile of the tail end of the LV clamp would have allowed me to make a few less compromises on my bench design. Even at $35/ea, I've considered using those for my wagon vices.


----------



## mochoa

I really want one of these but I'm to cheap to buy it. 









Theres got to be a way to make one out of wood.


----------



## jmartel

Looks like a duck with a really long tongue.


----------



## mochoa

haha, Megan at Pop Wood knick named t the bench duck. lol. Google Bench Duck and thats what you'll get.


----------



## CL810

*Merrill *- that's some good work. And you have a nice website BTW. If anyone hasn't checked it out it's worth some time.


----------



## RaggedKerf

Okay guys…I need help. When I first made my bench I didn't have a drill press and few enough layout tools…long story short, I had drill the hole for my leg vise "screw" with a cordless drill and my eyes. Well, it worked fine. Until today, when I got the new chop ready to install and noticed this:









Yeah. The bottom made contact the exact same distance….wait for it….as the sloppy wobble in the old chop. Guess I knew where that came from. Funny thing was, I thought for sure now that I sharp chisels, a bench press, etc., I was sure to do it right…and I did…I just didn't get the leg right!

My idea is to make an angled shim to true up the chop's face and make clamping possible. Is that too ghetto or is there another option besides nuking it and making a new leg??? I'm hoping you geniuses out there can help a brother out with this one…pardon me while I go cry in a wee dram…or six.

Here's the blog update with all the gory details.


----------



## DanKrager

OKay. Maybe I'm not fully grasping the problem, but it looks kinda like a plug and redrill problem to me. The plug would have to be quite a bit oversize to have strength. And the plug would have to be "cross grain" so the grain is parallel to the leg when inserted for gluing. Maybe the clearance hole in the leg isn't a real problem, so just redrill straight (plugging if necessary first) and get the nut set right.
DanK


----------



## john2005

I was going to tell you all about the Roubo I am planning to build and all the excitement I have over it. Things like a package arrived from Lee Valley today with vises and Boatman already sent me the chain set up. But this afternoon, I slammed together a different kind of bench, that has me equally excited. We got this free from the neighbor so it had to find a temp home till I shuffle enough stuff for a more permanent one.



















The best part, he was as bummed when mama called us in as I was.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Good stuff John. That's one cute little bugger. My little buddy had a bench just like that. Now get going on that roubo

Martel- no dinner til 9:30, your officially bit by the bug.

Raggedkerf- another vote for plug and redrill. Actually, if you can swing it, I think the $40 for a lee valley vise screw would be well spent in your case. For one, the threads on your vise are so fine…that's a lot of crankin. Second, it would demand a bigger hole and a way for you to rectify. 
Other than the snot green color(I painted mine) those LV vise screws are a great value.


----------



## kiyoshigawa

Got a chance to work for a couple more hours last night, and cut three of the remaining four mortises. I'm feeling like I actually know what I'm doing now (with the mortises at least). The heavier mallet I used this time made the work much easier. Just gotta keep at it until it's done and in my apartment.


----------



## mochoa

Steve, +1 to plug and redrill.

John, great pics man! I have trouble getting my guys into the shop.

Tim that is one clean looking mortise man, good work.


----------



## LKJR

Wow, lots of great intricate benches. I found this thread just in time. In the planning phase.

Thanks for all the photos guys!


----------



## jmartel

BigRed: I don't know what your snot looks like, but mine isn't anywhere near that color green.

No updates from me from yesterday, sadly. I had to stay late at work, which put me in major traffic that took twice as long to get home, and then I just didn't feel like doing anything at home.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^The bench bug is spreading like wildfire. For those new to thread, we've tagged a lot of our benches with "smackdown." Makes it easier find them…..and steal ideas. Found here.


----------



## terryR

Ouch…Steve…that hurts! I can't remember if you have a tool try on the top…can you spin the whole bench 180 degrees and drill again on another leg? What does your screw thread into? A block of some sort? Can you enlarge the drilled hole and shim the block in back somehow? Gotta be a solution…even if it requires a different screw. Love my $40 Veritas…even with the green snot paint. 

Any interest from the group in a workbench calendar? I can imagine a finished lovely each month surrounded by build photos…


----------



## donwilwol

I wouldn't mind a workbench / plane calendar combination Terry.


----------



## mochoa

Plane action shots on nice workbenches would be money!


----------



## john2005

I agree, just plain action shots…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^throw in a couple bondo poses?? Or would that be like a creepy swimsuit imitation calendar? (snicker)

Martel- I do get some crazy boogers.


----------



## mochoa

Maybe just a one page compilation of bondo poses, dont want to a bunch of hairy dudes on every page.


----------



## terryR

Hmmm…I think I just realized the answer to every newbie's question, "Which hand planes should I buy first?"

"The ones you'll use to build your workbench" Planes aren't that much fun till you get a real bench, IMO. 

...more discussion on the calendar is needed. I can even see a *'Slippery Slope' calendar* filled with lustful tools and sweet benches. The guitar shaped marking gauge for Mos, Thor's Hammer, Shane's marking knives, any of Don's infill planes, Stef's first sharp saw, Bondo poses, the list is long! LOL

Edit: did someone just call me a hairy dude?


----------



## CL810

Instead of a monthly calendar, it may have to be a one or two week per page calendar.


----------



## merrill77

"Any interest from the group in a workbench calendar? I can imagine a finished lovely each month surrounded by build photos…"

I'm in! NCWW isn't doing a printed calendar this year (for the first time since 2006)...so I need another source for WWing pics for my shop for 2014! In case anyone is interested, there are galleries of the woodworking calendar photos online. There are a few really nice workbench / plane shots in there (shop equipment was one of the categories).

Here's some bench porn for ya courtesy of past NCWW calendars:























































"creepy swimsuit imitation calendar"

I googled that, fully expecting to find a lot of hits. Even tried "creepy swimsuit edition calendar". Only found a handful of hits and nothing relevant, much less anything as entertaining as I was expecting. I'm scared to think what that says about me


----------



## Mosquito

"Planes aren't that much fun till you get a real bench, IMO. " 
I made do 

I wouldn't mind the idea of expanding from Handplane calendar (there was at least 1 page of chisels, saws, benches, and "other") to the hand tool calendar instead…


----------



## RGtools

I would love a handtool calendar. Just all of them.


----------



## mummykicks

I guess I can post mine. Although it's quite a bit different than most.
Full write-up is in my projects gallery.
It's a variation on Ron Paulk's excellent mobile work bench (do a search on u-tube). 
It was designed to do the following:

Provide safe and easy means to both support and cut sheet goods with a tracksaw. The T-tracks are spaced such that no matter what cut I need to make both pieces are at least supported more than half way. I just back my truck up to within a couple feet of it, slide the sheets from the bed onto the bench, and break them down. No lifting, no carrying, little if any swearing.










Provide clamping for just about anything, including sheet goods when I'm breaking them down. It also is an out-feed table for my router. I also have a 3" x 3' t-track mounted on the side so I can clamp things to the side as needed (it wasn't installed when I took the last picture in this post, but that's why the holes in the sides are different sizes) that is kinda visible in the picture below.



















Provide storage for all my tools (tracksaw, sander, jigsaw, etc.)










The really, really cool feature is the under-top storage. The cut-outs in the side give ample space to put all the crap that normally takes over every horizontal surface available - Ron really hit on something here. The cutouts also allow clamping things to the top around the edge as needed, something I do quite a bit of.

I don't own a tablesaw, and don't have a need for one. I can cut just as accurately with much greater safety, yes some things would go quicker with one, but not enough for me to justify it. If I were to get one, it would be a sawstop (my fingers are way to important to risk a momentary lapse in concentration on), but the money I saved on it payed for my drill press, miter saw, and bandsaw.

Which also means I can afford the space for a 4' x 8' workbench in my half of the garage.

It's doweled, screwed and glued together (something like 400 dowels lol) and is dead flat except for a .020" dip on one end. It isn't pretty, it won't be on any calendar, but it's extremely functional and I wouldn't trade it for any other design.


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## JayT

Nice bench, mummykicks. Pretty is as pretty does-if it works for you and how you do woodworking, then it is a good bench.

Of course, this statement

little if any swearing

might disqualify you to be called a woodworker


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## terryR

Mos, you more than made do…you excelled! But, you are a special person with more love for the tools than most beginners. And the will to carry them up and down 3 flights of stairs, too. 

I agree that a selection of multiple hand tools would make for a lovely calendar!


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## donwilwol

I don't think a calendar is big enough. Some should publish a LJ picture book.


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## Mosquito

Determination, Terry. Now I just feel lazy for using the workbench with how much easier it is lol

-

A picture book would be possible, little more work, but could do it through the same site, I'm sure


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## jmartel

Wasn't able to get much done today either, due to work. I did square up one side of each slab though.


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## john2005

+1 for the picture book. They are worth a thousand words and all.


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## mummykicks

JayT
Of course, this statement

little if any swearing

might disqualify you to be called a woodworker 

I actually think I'm already disqualified as I don't own a table saw or a hand plane 

I also use hardwood plywood instead of glue-ups, and most recently have been further coerced by the dark side with pocket screws…which further disqualifies me because it means I actually do own enough clamps.
I do, oddly enough, draw the line with edge banding and veneer, which I never intend to use…go figure.


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## merrill77

jmartel - red oak? It looks just like my bench during the build


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## jmartel

Yes, red oak. Maple was not available off of craigslist, so it would have cost 3x the price as the Red Oak I bought.


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## RPhillips

*Mummykicks* Nice bench!

I bought those plans from Paul and was going to build a bench like yours with the storage below, but I have decided to build a Roubo for now and will add a nice table like that to sit behind my table saw if/when I get a new work space. Not much room in my current situation.


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## RGtools

Mummykicks.

That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.

Overruled.

I love the bench even though I think I could never use it. I watched the Festool bench in action today and thought, 'I have to make hold downs like that"


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## BigRedKnothead

Right, it's not my cup 'o tea either. Guess I'm too much of a traditionalist. 
But I see how it would be extremely useful in cranking out speaker boxes/casework.

Merril and Martel- you won't regret using oak.


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## merrill77

@Red - I would have chosen something softer for the bench…I'd rather dent my bench than the workpiece. But I was pretty much drowning in red oak a while back. I'm slowly whittling down the stack and the workbench definitely helped, along with a rather elaborate mobile base for my 15" planer, a flip-top sander stand and doors/drawers for my router table. On the upside, the oak is cheap, stiff and heavy…all good traits for bench material. So, no, I certainly won't regret it. Heck, I'm thrilled just to get it off my lumber racks!


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## donwilwol

Heck, I'm thrilled just to get it off my lumber racks

next time you have such a terrible problem send for me. I have a truck and will gladly help a friend out.


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## yuridichesky

*Merrill*, I would have chosen something softer for the bench…I'd rather dent my bench than the workpiece.

I use pine to build a workbench, and it's so soft, that it already looks old and well-used while it's not ready yet (though I'm too slow in my building process).


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## merrill77

*Yuri* Wow, 10×4? That is tiny. My first shop was pretty small (~10×12)...but doesn't compare to yours. I feel bad for complaining about mine, now :> You must be really organized to have enough room for a workbench!


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## yuridichesky

*Merrill*, yes, 10 feet long, from wall to wall, and it's gonna be less when I'll build some storage cabinets.

My workbench will be about 47" long and 15" wide. I'm still counting each half of an inch, but it's unlikely that I'll shave off anything from those dimensions.


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## jmartel

My shop is small by most people's standards. It's 16×19, but it's also gotta hold motorcycles, bicycles, and other garage items. Luckily I have a "driveway" that's just long enough to park our only car on, so I don't need to put that inside.

This was the only townhouse I found with a 2 car garage and jumped on it. I gave up having any sort of yard at all for it. I have the smooth river rock instead of grass.


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## CL810

No yard maintenance = more shop time!


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## jmartel

That's my thoughts. Though, I will have to spend a bunch of time (and money) next year and pull up all the gravel and replace it with pavers/stone.


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## JayT

David Barron finished his Roubo. Whether you like it or not, you'll have to admit the level of craftsmanship is amazing.


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## BigRedKnothead

What's not to like? She's a beaut!


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## jmartel

That was quick.


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## wastedalf

Ok I'm going to post a picture of my current workbench, in the hopes that my plans for a new bench aren't criticized too much 

Here's the current one:









My wife and I are living off of her income while I finish up my bachelor's degree. We are also in an apartment, which we will be leaving in about a year when we buy a house. So my new bench plans requirements are:
Extremely Cheap
Temporary/Disposable

That being said, here are my plans:
2×4 frame and legs
OSB plywood lower shelf and base of benchtop
Sanded plywood Benchtop
Which should cost under $50, and turn into firewood when we get a firepit at the new house


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## TerryDowning

Stick with the under $50 budget and Big Box 2×4s and google search Paul Sellers work bench build.

Less of a need to burn it then


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## RaggedKerf

^ +1 Mine is about $80 and all 2×4s (the legs are 4×4s) and solid as all get out a year later. Join the Gluebo mafia!

On another note, just wanted to say thanks to everyone who offered suggestions about how to fix my leg vise chop--really appreciate the help guys! I got 'er dun:










New parallel guide (one piece of oak instead of 6 laminated 1/2" strips glued edge to edge lol) and she's all done and ready for work. Clamps nice and smooth and strong with less effort (the old one had to bend a bit to get the job done). Now I can get back to "work". turns out the chop hole and the leg hole (there's a joke in there somewhere) were both off. I just drilled out the chop a bit and it was done. Here's the blog if your curious.

Thanks again guys!


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## RPhillips

+1 for Paul Sellers work bench… he has a YouTube series on building it.


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## CL810

Barron's build was very interesting. A number of clever ideas. I especially liked the mortise and tenon construct for the legs and top.


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## waho6o9

Don't worry about a tiny shop Yuir.

Fellow LJer Dilo Marcio Fernandino made some of the best pieces out of his

7×6 service closet.









Good job on the parallel guide Steve.

Looking forward to your bench Wastedalf, it's going to be a good one.


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## BigRedKnothead

Lee Valley's Apartment workbench plan reminded me of some LJs.


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## john2005

K, I have been shopping everywhere for materials, and the best I can do is purpleheart on craigslist for 3/bf delivered. 2×[email protected]'. Much as I want. The only thing cheaper is white pine. Big box 2×10's are not much cheaper. Problem is, I don't really want a bench made from purple heart. I also don't want to spend 3/bf. 2 would be ideal. Anybody ever have any luck trading to their local yard? I am gonna see if that will fly on Mon. Other thoughts?


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## BigRedKnothead

John- finding cheap lumber for a bench can be half the battle. The usual recommendation is to find any small time sawmills. There's woodfinder.com, craigslist, or finding anyone near you with a woodmizer. Even if you strike out calling one, ask if they know a mom 'n pop sawmill.

Also, can you get SYP where your at? That would be much better than white pine.


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## shipwright

I just dropped in to catch up a little, not being a "regular" smack down participant. I do read up once in a while and think it is a great institution here. I noticed a reference to the "smackdown" tag on your workbench projects. I'm wondering if this is an honour shared by the participants here or open to any LJ who wants to tag his bench in this manner. With your blessing, I would like to add the tag to mine.


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## Airframer

I think your bench qualifies  The purpose of the tag was to gather all the bench pics together in one spot so someone looking to start their build could easily see them to gather inspiration from them. I say tag that bench!


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## lathu

The clock is to be different.How to identify the time?


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## waho6o9

Tag that bench is correct.

It's work bench time Lathakumar.


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## shipwright

Thanks for the clarification Eric. I am honoured to join the tagged group.
These are some of the most woodworker significant builds on the site.


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## yuridichesky

*Waho*, thank you for support. There's no point in worrying about small workshop, but I do worry about constantly growing collection of the tools


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## yuridichesky

Colleagues, I need an advise.

The hardware for my vises (both wagon vise and leg vise) is made of mild steel. And so I have steel-on-steel friction problem. The wagon vise that I use the most (for the leg vise still in the "almost done" state) started to show some significant wear in the screw-cover plate contact area:










Of course I put some lubricant in there, but still it bites time after time when I tighten the screw.

How can I fix this? I'm thinking about putting thin brass washer between steel parts, but not sure if it's gonna work.

Any suggestions?


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## JayT

shipwright, glad to see your bench tagged. It is one of the most unique and innovative I have seen.

yuri, I would use a bronze washer, if available, for its self lubricating properties.


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## Boatman53

Yuri, I'd go straight to a thrust bearing washer. If you can find them over there. That is what is on my vise screw and it is smooth.
Jim


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## yuridichesky

*Jay*, what about brass washer instead of bronze one? Do you think it'll work?

*Jim*, can you share some images of those thrust bearing washers? Is it just a washer or washer holding balls just like a bearing?


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## JayT

I'd think the brass would somewhat protect the steel, as it is softer and would wear faster, but don't think it would last very long. You'd be replacing brass washers periodically. Bearing bronze, being self-lubricating and harder than brass, would probably last your lifetime. If brass is all you've got, it's better than nothing.

Whatever you do, make sure to have as smooth and flat a surface on the steel as possible before reassembling with a washer of any kind.

Googled "thrust bearing washer" (new to me, too). Looks like a great solution if you can find one that would fit. The images show basically three washers in a sandwich, with the middle one having needle or ball bearings. Should be smooth and long lasting.

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## yuridichesky

*Jay*, thanks, got it.


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## yuridichesky

*Jim*, do you use whole bearing or just a middle part?


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## Boatman53

Thanks Jay for throwing the pictures up, I should have done that but was pressed for time, and google is your friend.
Yuri, my screw came with it. For you since your bearing surfaces are a little mangled and soft I would definitely use the outer washers. The bearing washers on mine are just thin little slivers, so there is a wide vatiaty out there.
Jim


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## RPhillips

Ok, here the progress on my bench build…










Well it is a bench, well sorta…I had build some thing to put my tools on. I'll be adding to it to better suit me needs, like adding a clamp rack, maybe some drawers below to hold my tools and so on.

This should help me get going on milling down those timbers and getting my bench finished.


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## bandit571

Posting to get to the bottom of the pile.

Dumpster wood into a decent workbench









and a usable saw bench, too









May not be fine furniture grade stuff, but it is out of a dumpster. Had to buy a 2×4 from the cull cart at lowes to make the saw bench's legs,@ $3 or so. Cost almost $7 for the screws for the workbench….

Might do for awhile???


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## waho6o9

A long while Bandit, they look good.


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## terryR

Bandit, love your dumpster Bench…how much ya want for it? I could simply screw it to the back patio of our house, and work in the sweet shade. Too bad the cost of shipping is a deal-breaker!  Maybe I need to travel to a richer side of the county to look for such wood…

Rob, that's a nice build, too! I'm jealous that you have so much empty space in your kitchen, and permission to bring in tools. What a great place to work on projects! Saw a board, munch an Oreo, plane down to the line, another Oreo…


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## RPhillips

LOL! I do have some free space in the kitchen, but the tool cart (as I call it) is only in there because I've promised the wife that i would make her some new furniture pieces and so since I haven't actually built anything yet but shop stuff, she commandeered it. I'm going to add some simple drawers it to stow my most used tools until I can get a proper work space built.


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## SamuelP

Any suggestions for a product to use on a laminated 2×4 bench top?

I mainly want to help keep it clean. Glue and dust sticks like it is covered with honey. I would also NOT recomend syp as a bench top. I have had thoughts of laminatimg 3/4 oak on top and tieing it up with oak or cherry breadboard ends. Any thoughts?


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## merrill77

I rubbed in a coat of tung oil and it helps with the glue a little. I like to put a plastic sheet over my benches/tables for large glue-ups. The problem with coatings on the bench is that the ones that offer really good protection must, inherently, form a barrier over the wood and that barrier tends to by slippery compared to the raw wood. This is, obviously, bad if you use your bench as a workholding device, especially for hand tools.


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## kiyoshigawa

Almost there.. All the major work is done except the dadoes on the well board, and I can do those from home. I will take it there, plane the top level/square, and cut the sides square after that. Still got a lot of work to do, but since I can work on it at home now, it should go faster (I hope). Anyways, pictures:



















Bit of a twist problem:









It fits in my car as well: 









Finally at home with some tools on it. (Not its final resting place, but I was too excited not to set it up when I got home):


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## theoldfart

Tim, twist on the side or top?


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## kiyoshigawa

The twist is just on the top. I held off planing it until the whole thing was assembled. The bottom looked about like that a few weeks ago as well, but it's flat and square now.


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## terryR

Looks like a great start, Tim, and I bet you are done in a couple o weeks now! 

Sam, I applied Danish Oil to my pine top, just one coat. Hard to prove, but it "feels" more slippery now. My holdfasts don't work as well at holding battens securely. Could be the weather? I think a good quality wax would be the best option, but didn't try it.


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## merrill77

Sam said: Glue and dust sticks like it is covered with honey. Any thoughts?

Do you think it is sticky from the natural resins in the pine?

If yes, then you might consider a coat of shellac. It is the well known to be the best barrier finish. It blocks all kinds of things from getting through - oils, waxes, natural resins, etc. But it has poor resistance to alcohol and ammonia, so you have to avoid spilling your whiskey or cleaning it with windex


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## jmartel

I'll finally be able to get more work done on the bench tonight. Had the mother in law and aunt in law visiting over the weekend through today, so I couldn't really get to the garage. New goal is to finish it up by Friday. I need to get this bench done as I have a ton of other projects on the pipeline.


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## RGtools

I left my 2×4 top raw. It has not bothered me. BLOor Tung would resist glue and not be slippery. I would rather underfinish a bench than overdo things and end up with a slick top.


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## CL810

Sam, if pine resin is the issue you might be able to remove enough to improve the situation with mineral spirits or the more aggressive acetone.


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## yuridichesky

*Tim*, cool workbench. Like its small size and portability. Really nice.


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## SamuelP

Thanks for the tips. I will clean and see if it changes after. Maybe a lottle blo.


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## bondogaposis

Any suggestions for a product to use on a laminated 2×4 bench top?

I used a mixture of 1/3 mineral spirits, 1/3 BLO and 1/3 spar varnish on mine. It an easily renewable finish and helps provide some protection from glue. Wax provides the best protection from glue but I didn't want the surface of my bench to be too slick, so I didn't use it.


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## ITnerd

I used SYP for my bench and top - it was my first, I was learning, and didn't want to spend a ton of time or cash on it. I went with a face and end vise to see how they suited my style (or lack thereof) of work. Good news, it works - bad news, its too ugly to earn the smackdown tag.

I would recommend you use a hardwood if you can possibly get it, but if not, here are some things I learned/did dealing with SYP.


Quartersawn is best - I looked for 2×10's and 2×12's with the pith/heartwood running dead center (look at both ends), as few knots as possible, and the rings close together. It took me quite a few Lowes trips to get enough. 
Prep it well - I ripped the center out, and had two good boards from each side. I also ripped a 1/4 inch off the outsides to get rid of the rounded edges. I cross-cut out sections with major knots, as they seemed to contain a lot of sap.
Construction Lumber is not 'Dry' - its usually twice the moisture content or more of what you'd use in furniture. So be prepared to let it dry somewhere for a while. I cut (the above trimmed pieces) a few inches long, and put them in conditioned space - I used the storage area in my detached office, but a spare bedroom would work. I left it for several months while I finalized my design and got my vises, etc.

I glued up my panels and waited until my top pieces were attached, and then trimmed the ends of each section (I had 4 smaller panels). Then I flattened the top with an electric handheld planer and a #8. I then hit it with a toothing plane, and never finished it. I cover it with a piece of hardboard I cut to shape for glue ups (the stuff with one side that's like a dry erase board), and re-tooth it occasionally when it gets grimy looking.

Its ugly, but its solid and flat. When I get a bigger shop with a sturdier floor, and I will try my hand at one of the big boys, but for now it'll do.

Good luck with your builds!


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## yuridichesky

Drawboring made ugly:










(full story here)


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## merrill77

Well done, Yuri. Fixing mistakes is half the battle - your fix looks like it'll be nearly invisible.


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## Mosquito

Fixing mistakes is half the battle
You're a lot better at this than I am if it's only half lol


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## john2005

Neb question (and yes, nice turn on that Yuri). What are experiences/suggestions about solid core doors for the top. I haven't decided whether I would just laminate 2 together, or rip into strips, plane off the veneer, glue back together. Unfortunately I have a maple roubo taste but a 2×4 pine budget. I can get these cheap though and I can't get "good wood" much cheaper than 3/bf. Thanks


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## jmartel

Haven't updated in a few days. The mother in law was in town, so I was playing tourist the last few days. Combine that with being stuck at work last week means little progress was made.

Sunday we went out to the San Juans, and managed to catch a passing Orca Pod when we went to Lime Kiln State Park.










Tonight, I did the glue-up for the chop, widened the slot for the wagon vise, glued up the wagon block, and glued up the end cap for the front slab. Goal is to have at least one working vise tomorrow.


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## Airframer

JMartel… do you live near the San Juans? I'm on Whidbey Island


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## jmartel

I'm down in Seattle. I have a friend who is on deployment currently that is having me watch his house in Anacortes occasionally.


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## Airframer

Well shoot, that is just down the road. The next time you are in Anacortes you need to stop into that flea market on the corner of SR 20 and well.. SR 20. Where the highway turns south to go onto the island. Lots of good rust hunting to be had there. Been meaning to go back myself for a while now.


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## RaggedKerf

*john2005*: I'm no expert, but if it were me and I could wrangle a couple solid core doors, I'd glue those puppies together, drill some dog holes and slap on a vise or two and get to work. I was in the same boat as you last summer when I built mine out of glued up 2×4s. It has held up surprisingly well, but if I had the option to do a "slab-like" top, I would have jumped all over it. Solid core doors would have cost 2x as much as the lumber I bought for the top. If you can do it cheap, I'd say go for it and leave the veneer on--if you don't care about it, you won't worry about it when it gets messy. That way you can get busy building stuff that leads to workbench #2 eventually….


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## merrill77

I was using a single solid-core door on sawhorses for a while. Two of them glued/screwed together would make a very sturdy top. No, not as glamorous as a european beech roubo…but who cares? As long as you have a solid surface for holding your work. That's really the essence of a workbench. Unless you plan to put your workbench in the living room with a TV on it.


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## wastedalf

Started the bench last night, hoping to finish tonight if I can resist watching Thursday night football…
All 2×4s, this will be the front when I'm done. Assembled using the cheapest wood screws I could find (yellow zinc), pre-drilled and counter sunk so I don't get splits and have no potential scratches on my work. Yes, that is our litterbox. Quarters are cramped at the moment!
The second pic is where it will be going… as you can see I desperately need some organization! Once I get everything done, I'm sure my wife will be in such a pleasant mood I might be able to get away with more


----------



## jmartel

Well my initial setup of the leg vice was a bit off. The vice screw and shaft were about 2 degrees off from each other, causing a bind. Tomorrow I'll tweak things a bit to get it right. I know what I gotta do so it shouldn't be too difficult.


----------



## wastedalf

Finished with the bench! I'd say overall it took me no more than 10 hours to build.
Ok, so I was shooting for less than $50… I missed it. Imagine that. Overall it was about $63 with tax; I think this is because I decided last minute to do the oak plywood top. I thought that would be way more expensive, but compared to the pine ply at the blue store it was only about $5 more probably.
Materials:
8 - 2×4x96 at $2.52 each , $20.16
7/16" 4×8 OSB $9.25
1/2" 2×4 Oak Plywood $14.93
1/2" 2×2 Oak Plywood $8.48
2-1/2" Gold Screws $6.47
Originally I was going to do 4 feet long, but once I figured out how to arrange the furniture in the living room I was able to do 6 feet 
Next up is a front vise and maybe some bench dogs.


----------



## waho6o9

Nice bench Wastedalf, congrats.


----------



## merrill77

Wait, wait…you have a wife AND you have a workbench in the living room?!? How does that work? The end of the world must be near.


Nice bench…and close enough to the budget, I'd say.


----------



## CL810

At least it's not in the bedroom - they'd never get any sleep.


----------



## wastedalf

I posted a few days ago what my workbench prior to this one was… the dining room table. So this is a step up for her, lol.


----------



## bandit571

Need a pattern for a crochet that I could mount on my bench. Grain direction?? Lag screws to hold it?? What angle to cut between it and the side of the bench?


----------



## theoldfart

Check out C Schwarz first workbench book, the blue one.


----------



## jmartel

So, the shaft/bearing isn't working quite as well as I was expecting. It's racking. I'll fiddle with it some more, but it may end up not working out. I may have to change to the parallel guide.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jmartel- that stinks. No, I'm not cold enough to give you a toldyaso Would there be any way to drill a series of holes in the rod….then use a pin in it?

Bandit- the grain should go diagonal. Point to point on the crotchet if you will. Don't know if there's a correct angle, but I made sure it would fit up to 8/4 stock. I just got some big fat lag bolts at the borg.


----------



## jmartel

No, I deserve it. You can give me a hearty Itoldyouso. It doesn't rack terribly, but it does a bit.

I've got a backup plan to convert back into a traditional wood parallel guide/pin system.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ What Rojo said on the crochet.

Alf, Nice Bench, and fast too. All in the apartment must drive you (and your wife) nuts; I admire the passion big-time.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jmartel- Still stinks. I just knew how my leg vise worked. And there's a ton of pressure on that guide pin when I clamp down the vise….so I just couldn't add it up in my mind.

Now I really wonder how well that guy in the videos vise works….when he's cinching a thick piece of stock in the upper lip of his leg vise.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Another idea would be to get a threaded rod and a some crazy big but. Like Mauricio's….except metal.


----------



## mochoa

I love that pic.

Martel, whre is the flex happening? I don't understand why it doesn't work. Should the angle of insertion into the chop be increased?


----------



## jmartel

Not sure. Theoretically it should work perfectly. When I clamp something thinner than 4/4 stock, it doesn't rack. Thicker and it does. I think I'm just going to replace it with a traditional parallel guide. Make it easier. Not sure what I'll use for a pin, probably an old craftsman screwdriver I have laying around.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Just noticed my awesome typo from yesterday. I bet Mauricio didn't even know his leg vise had a "crazy big but". It's "nut" not "but"....lol.


----------



## RPhillips

I like BIG BUTTS and I can not lie….

errrr….ughhhh….yeah…you were saying…


----------



## jmartel

I got the wagon vice mostly installed this weekend. Need to put the breadboard end on the front slab half. Then that will be completed and I just need to fix the leg vice. Top is on.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Huzzah! Looking good!


----------



## RaggedKerf

Man that looks sweet.


----------



## merrill77

Almost done!


----------



## dbray45

It is going to be awhile to build but I have the wood. This wood is great - 15" - 20" wide QS red oak ranging is 6/4 - 8/4 thick and 4" posts. The boards were 12' long but I had to cut them in half to manage them. When done, the bench should be 5' long x 24" deep.


----------



## wastedalf

Good looking stock dbray; are you just going to do the top in oak or the whole thing?


----------



## mochoa

I missed the funny typo, I was on the MARTA train when I read your post Red so I wasn't paying that much attention. You should have left it as it was 

Martel, that bench is looking nice man! Well done.

Dbray, that's going to make a sweet bench man, cant wait to see it come together.


----------



## dbray45

Whole thing in red oak. It is going to be a while. Still thinking of how I want it to look.


----------



## jmartel

It was suggested to me on another site to use spacer blocks on the leg vice. While not the ideal result I wanted, it works. So, I'll fashion up some spacers of varying thickness that will straddle the shaft and use it as is. All that's left now is to make spacers, drill dog holes, and make tool well inserts.

I finished up the wagon vice tonight.


----------



## RaggedKerf

*jmartel*, showing my ignorance here by announcing to the world I'm not sure I follow you. Can't wait for the pics on this one. I thought you said the shaft was binding because the angle wasn't correct? Spacer blocks will alleviate that? Apologies if I missed a prior post….


----------



## merrill77

Assuming I understood jmartel correctly, the spacer blocks go between the vice chop and workbench leg, near the bottom, to keep the chop parallel with the leg under clamping pressure. I do the same with my leg vice. Instead of moving a peg in the parallel guide, you simply add/remove spacers. Mine sit on the floor (my chop goes all the way to the floor) and since most items that I clamp in the leg vice fall within a fairly narrow range of widths, I only need a few blocks to accommodate most of my work.


----------



## jmartel

RaggedKerf, the vise isn't binding. That comment was directed to whomever suggested the angles between the screw and the shaft might be off. If those angles were not the same, then it would bind. But, it doesn't bind, and I checked the angles with my wixey table saw angle gauge.

The spacers work the same as the pin on a traditional guide system. stops the bottom of the chop from moving any further, which turns the screw into a pivot point, toeing the top of the chop inwards. I tested it out on some 4/4 yellowheart last night with a 5/4 spacer and I was able to put my entire weight on the wood and it didn't move. So, that's good enough for me. Obviously I would have liked this solution to work flawlessly, but it didn't. This is a good fix. I don't consider this bench to be my last bench I'll ever build, so it's a learning experience.

I'll fashion up some spacer blocks probably in 1/2" increments (or stackable to get 1/2" increments, and mount them on strings holding them to the bench so they don't inadvertently get tossed out.


----------



## RaggedKerf

thanks guys, now I get it! That was followed by a SMACK a la the old V8 commercials. Duh. Sometimes it seems like English is a second language to me lol. Seems like a pretty slick solution!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jmartel- everybody works different, but I find 95% of the time, I just use the holes for 1" and 2" on my parallel guide. Hardly ever use the other holes. So a 4/4 and 8/4 block….may just be the cure.


----------



## terryR

Trying to earn a few galoot points while scoring brownie points with the wife at the same time! This is the backside of our new hen nesting box in progress…










Once completed, it will provide 9 comfy spots for our hens to lay eggs (maybe this year). It's all pine, carcass is made with rabbets, 'shelves' held in place with dadoes. Here I am adding the supports on the back which will screw to the wall. And, just for the fun of it, ALL hand tools so far. Yeah, it's taking me a bit longer with the chisel, mallet, and routah plane, but I'm willing to work longer days for the experience I'm gaining! 

Check out the beautiful 'bench'. The sawhorses still have bird poop on them. yuck! But, it's working…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice work Terry. I often find myself torn….do I want to take my time and learn a skill? Or do I just want to do it fast?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I was pouting a bit when I lost my fantasy baseball league. In my mind I had that money spent on a new LN plane.

Oh well, 2nd place was enough to get the hardware for this baby…









benchcrafted moxon. oh yaa….on the way


----------



## jmartel

Getting close now…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yessirr…..looks good!


----------



## terryR

Looking great jmartel…those two vises make me jealous!

Red, that's an awesome score! I was just drooling at LN's dovetail vise last night…










...maybe for christmas?


----------



## JayT

Looking good,* jmartel* I'm sure you've mentioned, but what is the plan for the area between the split top?

*Red*, even with the new joinery bench, you're also going to do a Moxon? Or are you planning to install the hardware on the joinery bench itself?


----------



## merrill77

Wowzers! They're really proud of that, aren't they ???


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya guys, the joinery bench is far from done. It's always been the plan to put a moxon vise on it, then the cabinets below. I'll just keep adding to it as I get the cash.

Terry, that LN one looks very nice, but it is pricey. I looked into buying the hardware myself…..then the $150 for benchcrafted didn't seem too far out of line. Plus the video kinda sold me. Of course I can't post it embed.

http://benchcrafted.blogspot.com/p/video-gallery.html


----------



## terryR

^Yeah, that LN vise cost more than my entire bench! Would look like $3000 rims on a $500 car if I added it to my shop. LOL

Hmmm, $150 for the cool Benchcrafted parts doesn't seem that bad…


----------



## Mosquito

Need to hurry up and get a bunch of other projects done… need to finish the bench, and build me a moxon benchtop vise… seeing him not hunched over trying to do stuff in the leg vise reminds me how much it sucks to have to do that lol


----------



## jmartel

Jay, The area between will be useful for things like cutting with a circular saw, and I will be making tool inserts to hold tools I am currently working with rather than putting everything away. The inserts will likely have handles so I can take them from areas to areas of the garage to work on stuff. My shop is small so everything needs to have many uses. I will also be making a solid panel to cover everything, potentially with a few more dogholes so I have one solid surface.


----------



## CL810

Has Benchcrafted's Crisscross been discussed? I may have missed it but I'm considering it for my build and just wanted to hear from the group what the pros and cons are. Thoughts?


----------



## AnthonyReed

I don't believe we have had anyone buy/install one yet. I sincerely hope you do Clayton, I'd love to hear some firsthand experience with it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ I tried one out while at the show at the Amana colonies. It was pretty darn nice.


----------



## CL810

It's one I can get my brain wrapped around. I liked the shaft and linear bearing idea but after jmartel's experience it seemed too finicky. And I'll spend $99 if it keeps me from bending over all the time.


----------



## mochoa

The only negative I can see to the St Peter's Cross is that you cant use the space below he screw for clamping. Jim had an example a while back where that space was useful for him.


----------



## yuridichesky

*Jmartel*, the workbench is pretty nice.

*CL810*, the criscross needs both the mounting leg and the chop to be quite thick. In my particular case (very limited shop space) such thick construction is not an option.


----------



## CL810

Your right about that *Yuri*. They recommend 3"; 2.5" min.


----------



## theoldfart

I am thinking about using the cross. I've downloaded the installation pdf to check it out. My legs and chop should be large enough to manage it. We'll see!


----------



## john2005

What about Boatman's chain vice? He is after all a fellow LJ'er. Looks to be a pretty good set up and you don't need the thick chop. Course all this is coming from a guy who doesn't even have the materials for the bench yet. (the solid core doors turned out to be commercial fire doors). Oh well


----------



## theoldfart

Does Boatmans chain vise work with a large wood screw? My plans call for a Lake Erie with a brass garter.


----------



## mochoa

The chain guide should work with any screw.


----------



## BillWyko

Some really badass benches have evolved on this thread. I have a bit of advice for those of you building benches with tool trays. Make your tool tray wide enough to hold sandpaper. I didn't do it for that reason but I sure as hell am glad I did. I put 3 or 4 different grits in the tray and it makes it so easy. The paper is never in the way and every grit I'm going to use is right there in front of me.


----------



## Boatman53

Yes it will work with any screw and is easy to retrofit to an existing bench. 
Here is a link to a wooden screw installation. 
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/AYSLegViseChainAdjuster.html
I'm at my dads house trying to clean it out to settle the estate. The closing is on the 20th of October. No Internet here so I'm working from my phone. A couple LJers have it installed. 
Jim


----------



## john2005

Thats another reason I won't be building in a tool tray. I hate sanding.


----------



## BillWyko

John, learn to love the sandpaper. Repeat after me 1000 times "I love to sand, I love to sand" Tell yourself the lie long enough & you'll believe it. (That's how the government does it.)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Or just turn it into a positive. For example, if I hadn't hated sanding so much, I wouldn't have been so determined to to become proficient with hand planes and scrapers


----------



## bandit571

A Crochet is now on the new bench, and a few test drives have been done. Had some 6/4 Sycamore that was going for a plane build, that got canceled, so the wood was used elsewhere. Two large, and long lag screws to hold in place. Seems to work nicely.

(I know, no pictures…. Having issues with the new camera-ooski and this site. Doesn't want my photos, for some reason. All of 900+ k in size, maybe they're not big enough??)

If I can get this site to load some photos, I'll post a few of it.


----------



## john2005

Planing I like. Proficient I am not. Yet…


----------



## bandit571

They are a bit on the fuzzy side, auto focus needs glasses.









This is the round part. Next would be the angled part that goes against the side of the bench









and then a try at drilling a couple straight holes for two 1/2" diameter lag screws. Then a ratchet and socket to crank the two into the side of the bench, through the apron, and then through the leg.









This was during a test drive, to joint a piece of pine for a glue up. Will use a shorter clamp next time…...









Yep, a bit fuzzy…


----------



## Airframer

*Clayton* - if not bending over to adjust the vise is the goal and not being able to clamp below the screw is a concern Boatmans chain vise would be the way to go. I simply can't say enough about the system… it just simply works.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well, the mail lady delivered the Benchcrafted moxon vise hardware just as I was grumbling about being hunched over my roubo for hours. I like that I am supporting a small Iowan company.

I'm currently making a little bench caddy, and some other bench accessories as found in Jim Tolpins, The New Traditional Woodworker. Highly recommended book when you finish your bench.


----------



## AnthonyReed

That is a great photograph BRK. Great.

You been hanging out with Smitty or BYo?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Learning from the best. Can you hear foghat in the background

Now I'm chomping at the bit to start that moxon. But you know how I hate starting something without finishing the last.


----------



## Tugboater78

That book is a good read, the projects are defiantly on my to do list once I can get other things off my plate. Such as an actual bench.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Hey you guys remember way back when…..Stef was tryin' to build a bench? Those were good times…


----------



## AnthonyReed

^I like this guy.


----------



## CL810

The snap heard round the world!


----------



## theoldfart

OUCH!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Lol. Poor Stef. I'm always breaking his stones.


----------



## chrisstef

Im still here ya know Red. I can hear you when you think out loud like that and youll be singin another tune when ole stef doggy lugs home 100bf of primo walnut. 

Im the biggest 90%er, or 25%er in this case, known to man. Those bench legs and stretchers look at me funny everytime i walk in the shop. Its painful.

Hey Red … You got the squills to sharpen a handsaw yet.


----------



## theoldfart

OUCH again! In Stefs defense, my bench legs and stretchers have been there for about two months now along with the planks for the top. Even got an 8 to finish the top. Just no top!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^hehe…nah….my plan is to just send them to you or Lie Nielsen

You'll getter done. Not like you have anything going on eehh? Winters coming. Lotta cooped up shop time.

Other news, I really like the way Scotty shaped the front of his moxon. I'm thinking about plagiarizing him.


----------



## terryR

Ummm…there's a difference in being COOP'd up, and in the shop! 










nest box still in progress…had to make more pipe clamps…


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, my dad used to raise pigeons. He was always building a new loft, each one bigger than the last. And nest boxes everywhere. Both he and my grandfather lived for the hobby (a brooklyn thing). So get used to it. The next one WILL be bigger but a faster build.
PS, its nice to be exact but remember ….chicken sh1t will cover all that nice joinery!


----------



## terryR

chicken sh1t will cover all that nice joinery!

Yep, Kevin…I'm headed back to butt joints tomorrow and get this one done! LOL


----------



## DonBroussard

Butt joints covered with chicken ********************. You guys . . .


----------



## theoldfart

Does sound bad doesn't it? ;{


----------



## CL810

Hmmmm, that's a lot of cherry and maple.










Two sides of the cherry jointed.


----------



## chrisstef

Hold me ^


----------



## jmartel

That looks really dark to be cherry, unless it's been sitting in the sun for a while.


----------



## theoldfart

Clayton, I smell bench!!!!!!


----------



## john2005

Thats some good looking wood there


----------



## lysdexic

Clayton - that reminds me of the days back when I was cool.


----------



## CL810

*YoScottyB *- You're the one responsible for this journey. I've been lusting for your bench (free run here Stef) since you built it. I knew if I ever built another bench it would be cherry and maple like yours. Anyway, every time I'd get frustrated with my inadequate bench I'd find myself reading your blog. Finally I said hell, why not.


----------



## dbray45

Does anyone remember the portable carpentry benches that had a 1 1/2" top, about 4' long, 1" iron pipe for legs and a single vise?

My father had one, don't know what happened to it, but is was the handiest thing around. Looking at making one.


----------



## RGtools

I have seen those David, and I saw one recently, but I wish I could remember where I saw the thing.

I spent some time crosscutting Elm for grampas workbench base this weekend. I have all the parts sitting on my Japanese saw horses in the corner…why didn't I do that sooner.


----------



## dbray45

I am making one to use in making my new bench. I am deciding whether to make it thicker because I am using QS oak for the top. Thinking about putting a piece of 3/4" ply under the slab for strength. If the piece were flat sawn, then there wouldn't be any issues.

Will take a picture when I am done.


----------



## Tugboater78

so i sat back down with a octoberfest my laptop and some WEBN radio and looked at my sketchup file of my future bench, made some changes.

Found a few questions i must ask,

how far from the floor should the bottom of my stretcher be to make clearance for the parallel guide?

how big should my tenons be on the top of my legs, to connect the top? not gonna attempt through tenons.
legs will be 5" wide, 5 1/4" deep, top will be 3 1/4" thick. single tenon or 2? my laminated boards for the top will be 1 3/4 thick each.


----------



## Loco

Wall mount, freestand with drawers, wood topped, stainless topped-tool below. The stud muffin bench is in the barn under construction.It'll be golf cart tow-able.










.


----------



## Boatman53

Justin it sounds like the leg is wide enough to have the parallel beam along side the strecher. You want the beam as low as practical to minimize the pressure on the pin (if you are using a pin). Leg vises have tremendous force.
Jim


----------



## terryR

Justin, wish I had asked your questions BEFORE my bench build started! LOL

My lower stretchers are only 6" off the floor, so a paralell guide had me worried. I made it only 2.5" tall instead of most I've see at 3" or more, plus, I left it 1" thick to compensate. I also made the brackets for the wheel assemblies as small as possible so they'd fit. It's a cramped space without any doubt! Looking for a photo…

I think double tenons are stronger than one for the legs to top? But, you know I'm a newby at joinery! I say go for the through tenons! dovetailed!


----------



## bandit571

Stopped by the old shop, on the way home from a weekend stap at the hospital. Picked up the old leg vise, and got it installed on the new bench









It might just work..

So, now I have a leg vise ,and this little critter









at the other end. Now, I can clamp up anything over 48" long, and plane as needed. BTW, a junior jack works nice on a chop's end grain









May be a Four Square, but there is a SW iron on it, original one at that.


----------



## Tugboater78

I'm still deciding on the through tenons, if i do those they will be dovetailed, may as well challenge myself right?

the sketchup patterns Iv'e seen of Roubos have the bottom of the stretchers at 4" with a guide underneath but they also don't have roller guides so I don't know. they also are in Sketchup, not in the real world, so i know better than to go completely by what i see.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Scotty- I think you should sell it….. so we can watch you build another bench

I was out of town Justin….you can relate.

My stretchers are 5" off the floor. and my guide is about 10" to the bottom edge. Haven't notice any downsides to this as of yet. Old pic, but closest I have.










Most people do like Schwarzy does on the leg tenons; just make them the width of the leg. And create a tenon by leaving one piece protruding during lamination. If they're not gonna be though tenons, make them at least 2/3s the depth of your top…and pin 'em.


----------



## terryR

Sorry, Justin, I gave you some bad info…my lower stretchers are EIGHT inches off the floor. Still kinda tight for space with the rollers and what not. But, really the wheels aren't needed, since the leg vise worked fine without them.

I LOVE that bench, Red! Definately the one I wanna copy on my next bench build!!!!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Go for it Terry. I just ripped off some dead French dude on the design

Well, I've got a design conundrum on the moxon. I intended to mount it more towards the middle (or spaced evenly on the right half.) If you can picture that. 









But I noticed Tolpin has his on the right edge…..makes sense for sawing:









But then I look at the benchrafted moxon, the jaws aren't even flush on one end. Can't saw on the end of this. 








Just wonder how much horizontal sawing I would do on it. The "design" instincts don't want to put it all the way to the right.


----------



## Mosquito

Isn't the point of a joinery bench for joinery? Wouldn't you usually be doing most of the cross grain work at your other workbench, in stock preparation? I guess that's just my take on it, but I also don't see myself having a joinery bench anytime soon, so it'll just be the bench top moxon for me


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I hear ya Mos. But I do cut notches and stuff horizontally in my end vise right now. Feels dumb putting aesthetics before function….on a bench. But I probably will.


----------



## Airframer

The configuration of the BC Moxon is open for interpretation really. If it will be permanently mounted to your bench I see no need for the back to be longer then the jaw. The purpose of that is to allow it to be clamped to a bench without interfering with the jaws operation but with a permanent install that would be a moot point.


----------



## CL810

Red, form should follow function. +1 to Eric.


----------



## mochoa

I've been thinking I want some cabinets where my old 2×4 bench is but now I'm thinking I want to put a joiner bench there.

I'm thinking of making a Paul Sellers English style bench and making it joinery height. The difference is I like the Mathias Wandel method of constructing it. Using dowels but I would making the legs 4×4" instead of 2×4's like he does.

You might say dowels are woosy but he shows how sturdy it is and hey, I'm going to be sawing and chiseling/carving at it not doing heavy planning there. Also the PS gray paint scheme is growing on me.










I like the quick release vise too but they can be expensive and I have the wooden screw to make one of these:









Here is Mathias' video on making the bench.





Still kicking around ideas…


----------



## john2005

Well turns out no bench this year. Just went to the doc today. Hernia. Mild, but still they have me on a 10 lb restriction until they figure out what to do with it. Awesome. The kid weighs more than that! Whatevs


----------



## RaggedKerf

John I feel your pain…been on bed rest for two weeks due to injured back. After a month of intensive Chiropractor adjustments I go back on Monday for more xrays. No idea when I'll be allowed in the shop….


----------



## john2005

Sorry to hear that Steve. Its easy for me to get caught up in the "woe is me" mentality, but at least for the time being, I am mobil and can do light stuff. I hope that you are up and about soon. Bed rest sucks. For any reason. I'll keep you in my prayers


----------



## Tugboater78

Maurico, that bench is sturdy, I haven't done any planing on the one I built but it doesn't rack, . If made of heavy material it should be heavy enough. Mine walks, but there is no weight.


----------



## Iguana

It's been over 24 hours since a post here. Thinking it might die out if someone doesn't give it a bump


----------



## widdle

Im down for a bump…joinery bench and dowels sounds weaksauce..Airframers gone from jointing oak 2x on the garage slab to full on dovetailed carcasas…Soo bump the butt joints and dowels…; )


----------



## Tugboater78

I'm on steel boat.. not much workbench stuff..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I've been working on my moxon vise….but I haven't been able to post pics because my laptop crapped out. Gettin' a new one today. I hate spending money of stuff like that.


----------



## terryR

+1 to that sentiment, Red. Wife just bought the iPad with retinal display a few months ago…but thinks the Glock 23 I want for my b-day is too expensive! I used to be a computer geek 10 years ago, but now hate the things!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Got one my best elves working on the moxon.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks for calling me out on the weak idea Widdle. So not even if they are big dowels?

I didn't figure it was a very popular idea judging from the crickets I got after that post.

I'll go to confess my sins tomorrow. ;-)

Red, the moxon vise is looking sweet man. I love all that white oak, beautiful wood.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Maur- I missed your post earlier, but I concur with widdle. Sometimes my posts draw crickets too

The Moxon is done. Had fun shaping it. The jaw design is a blatant ripoff of lysdexic's moxon. Hope he takes it as a compliment
Router, scrub, jack, rasp, sandpaper….









Leather on the jaw. Wipe on poly. I'm diggin it. Now I must master dovetails. Should take a couple weeks….or the rest of my days.


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice Red. It looks great. It'll hurt the first time you drop the saw a little too far and put a nice ding in it lol


----------



## theoldfart

Not a problem, he made it out of Red Kryptonite so the saw would disintegrate!


----------



## Airframer

That went quite nice! Looks like it grew out of the side of the bench rather than was mounted there. Very well done!


----------



## donwilwol

I love the oak Red. I love the Red Oak. wait I'm confused now.

It looks great. like Eric said, it looks like it was always there.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys. I was surprised it only took a couple hours to make. The benchcrafted stuff is pretty nice.

I'm excited to put it to use. Gotta get crackin' on some furniture now. Baby needs new shoes. Ahh…who am I kiddin'. Daddy just wants more wood and tools


----------



## mochoa

Very sweet Red! I could go for something like that but with a couple of wooden screws.


----------



## chrisstef

Red - i know i break ur stones but dude, thats wicked cool lookin. Its totally removable from the bench? It blends like vodka and … Well vodka. Mixed drinks are for my wife. I really like it bud.


----------



## JayT

Excellent work on the Moxon, Red! Looks right at home there.

Since I don't have any real contribution to the workbench thread, I can gloat a bit that I got meet fellow LJ Les Hastings today and see his gorgeous inlaid Bench Top Bench in person today. As good as the photos are, they don't do it justice.


----------



## CL810

Most impressive *Red*.


----------



## Tugboater78

The big red machine.. wait till ye see what is sitting on my coffee table… Wish I could see in person, I know pics do it no justice..


----------



## Brit

Fantastic job you made of that Red.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks for all the encouragement guys. Admittedly, when I wiped on some finish, I thought "Dang…that looks pretty good!"

Just the lower cabinets and a saw till left to go. Trying to decide if it would be better to have a saw till up on the cleat board….or in a little shelf(with dividers) below and to the right of the moxon. Hmmm


----------



## terryR

+1 on such a nice, seamless build, Red! Your vise is so much more beautiful than the LN twin screw I've been drolling over…and the price was very fair, IMO.


----------



## yuridichesky

*Red*, this is perfect one! I wouldn't dare to work on it: each scratch would cause me a heart attack


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Seems like everyone else's benches are at a standstill. My back is hurtin' from carrying the thread

It didn't take long for the moxon to get its first ding. This elf is kind of a hack. Hehe. Ahh, I made it to work with.








Lately I've been working my real job more that I like. Darn grain harvest and ethanol subsidies. Anyway, finished a couple bench helpers from Tolpin's book: an edge grain planing wedge, a tool caddy, and a more suitable shooting board for my no62. 








My wife saw the caddy…..now I will be making one for the dining table…lol








I prefer to make my shop stuff of solid wood…but these baltic birch scraps work pretty slick.


----------



## BTimmons

*Red,* your shops is so beautifully outfitted, it's the kind of place a man could vacation in.


----------



## theoldfart

Low blow Red, I be workin on it suh! Just too many projects goin on.


----------



## bandit571

Other than some leather added to the leg vise, mine is done, for now









brfore the leg vise was added







and after, with a few jacks awaiting something to work on…


----------



## Tugboater78

I'm on on a boat m…. Fr look at me , wish I could drag my mats on here.. is do my glueups on the deck of a barge..


----------



## TerryDowning

Does a saw bench count in this thread?? I am putting a wagon vice in it.


----------



## Airframer

Yeah it's too bad Stef went all Martha Stewart on us or else he might have a bench now too ;-)

I think a saw bench with a wagon vise attached counts as a workbench lol.


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, mine is still a pile of legs and stretchers along with milled red oak planks ready to be ripped for a top. I'd say if your saw bench is built your ahead of me without even considering the vise. Come to think of it I have four other projects in the same stage of completion. A 50%'er trying for 75% or so!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"Yeah it's too bad Stef went all Martha Stewart on us" Lol. One of the best posts of late.

BTimmons- it kinda is the place I spend my vacations. One income and 3 kids barely pays for a minivan trip to mt. rushmore


----------



## chrisstef

If Snoop can go all Martha Stewart so can I!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Not sure what happened to my photos from yesterday. I haven't moved them. Photobucket does that to me sometimes.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, interesting take on the birdsmouth stop.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Kev. I probably made it a bit too small. It only wedges well on thinner stock….but that's really what I made it for.


----------



## theoldfart

Mine was made for thin stock:









I can take it off the base, which then becomes a planing stop for thin stock!
I like yours, you only have one wedge mine has two. I have plans for a bigger one, think I'll borrow your design.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh, I didn't even know about the design until I saw it in Tolpin's "the new traditional woodworker." His is wider, allowing for a larger wedge. Probably a good idea. The longer the wedge, the more friction to make it hold. 
If your pickin up what I'm puttin down


----------



## AnthonyReed

As always, beautiful work on the Moxon BRK. Absolute darling of a helper you have. I don't see any coasters…

Artful way of keeping Stef in check, Eric.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, mine came from a magazine article. I'll post it later, going to the shop to install hinges on the new shelf in my tool chest. Damn Smitty and Ryan for enabling my need to revise things!


----------



## RaggedKerf

Don't be dissin' the Stewart guys! We're getting close to Halloween so I need to warn y'all about going into a dark bathroom and saying her name 3 times in front of a mirror….









That sweet muffin maven did hard time. She'll shank you before the kitchen timer goes off then politely ask if you want dipping sauce for your tarts. A few years ago, when I was still working, she came in to my store. She is one scary lady.  The above photo was right before that interviewer disappeared. Coincidence?

Ahem.

*Red and Kevin*: Nice appliances! You guys are really making me want some of those now…


----------



## bandit571

Lets see, a Sunday afternoon to build mine, about an hour or so to build the Crochet addition, and another hour or so to add a leg vise. Cost? Spent almost $7 on a box of 2" screws, the lags came from a scrap pile, and the visecame from the old bench.

Plus, this thing IS in use. Already have a plane stop from the old bench, too. Might build a bench hook or two, just to do a wee bit of hand saw work….


----------



## bandit571

That big expanse of white pine could use something, though. Kind of hard to take any photos, you know. Maybe an oil stain on the top???


----------



## TerryDowning

Well, saw bench is a work in progress. I spend about 15-30 minutes most mornings in the shop before I go to work.

After seeing the Stumpy Nubs Old Timey wood worker video on a split top saw bench, I was inspired.

I was also inspired by shipwright's Wedge powered wagon vice and plan on putting one in my bench when that gets made, so I figured I'd prototype/practice on one for the saw bench.

Here is where it currently stands
Using left over 2x whatever, 2 store bought 2×4 fir studs, and one 2×6 from the cutoff bin (51 cents)

Feet are cut and need to be dadoed and ripped.
Risers are cut to length and need to have tenons cut for joining the feet. and Dovetail Pins cut for joining the top.

Non wagon side cut to length and needs the tails cut for joining the risers

Here is the Wagon side.
I still need to bore the dog holes.









load bearer block and wagon complete, I still need to cut wedges and spacers.









working on the tails for the joinery.


----------



## AnthonyReed

^ That is going to be awesome. Please share your progress with us.


----------



## Boatman53

Speaking of Martha… I recanvased her wooden canoe one year. She was very nice to me, but I've got some stories that only come from the Hamptons.
Any way back to the birds mouth wedge…. Anyone seen one of these? It was a chance find at a Craigslist stop. The pieces weren't even near each other. The guy doing the clean out had no idea what it was or that the pieces even went together. Most likely each piece would have been individually thrown away. At the moment it's not set up on the bench quite right 'cause the angle is off. I'll straighten it out some day.




































Jim


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Nice. That thing's pretty cool Jim.

And ditto on sharing that saw bench build with us Terry.


----------



## theoldfart

Jim, I would imagine the same Martha stories are circulating on Mt. Desert Island! I like that birds mouth, I had no idea that they were commercially made. Nice find.


----------



## mochoa

Sweet bench accessories guys, I could probably use one of those bird mouths.

Terry, very nice, that's going to be a sweet bench!

Jim, that is really neat, I didn't even know they made iron birds mouths.


----------



## Boatman53

Thanks, yes it was a lucky find, but a wooden one is faster to set up and easier on the tools. The previous owner mounted studs to fit in holes in the bench so it could just be dropped in place. When I drilled the holes in my bench top I didn't realize it was sprung slightly. I might mount it permanently to a piece of plywood that gets clamped to the bench. Either way I'm an old tool addict. I think I learned about it in Ken Landis's The Woorkbench Book.
In other news I'm working on 4 leg vises today.
Jim


----------



## AnthonyReed

Very cool Jim. Thank you.


----------



## john2005

That is a very cool old tool Jim!


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, I must be a little slow. For the life of me I can't figure out how your birdsmouth works, pretty as it is! What am I missing? 
Is the oak piece secured somehow? The wedge doesn't have a stop on it that I can see, so what keeps the work piece from sliding on by?
DanK


----------



## Brit

Hey Jim - Isn't it Scott Landis?


----------



## Boatman53

Andy you are right. One of my current customers name is Ken Landis and I've been thinking of sending him a bill since I hauled his boat last week. The author is Scott Landis.
Jim


----------



## theoldfart

Jim, my only concern with a metal holder is slipping with a plane and trashing the blade.


----------



## Boatman53

Yea I agree Kevin and mentioned that point in the first post. I've had just over a year now and have never used it, most of my jobs involve curves, but I wasn't about to pass it up.
Jim


----------



## BigRedKnothead

DanK- It's just a simple wedge you drive in with a mallet. It works…ok. I like the idea of a hook on the wedge…like on Jim's metal one.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, I'm not sure you could make a sturdy enough hook on a wooden wedge. No matter which direction you make the grain, I think it would snap. Just my dos centavos.


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, OK I wasn't missing anything except it being held in the vice. Yes, the hook eliminates the need for mallet because the pressure of planing tightens the wedge. 
Thanks for 'splaining!
DanK


----------



## Tugboater78

Those projects in The New Traditional Woodworker are pretty nifty, they on my long list of things to do, book was worth getting. I bought kindle edition, will probably invest in a n original handheld hardback. Need the skill builders .


----------



## TerryDowning

Ok, progress pics on the saw bench

Tails complete

















Next step is to work on the risers they need tenons and and the dove tail pins cut.

Then the mortises on the feet. Interesting approach from the old timey video I'm going to try.

Cut 1/2" deep Dadoes the width of the tenon in the 2×6 do all of the test fitting etc. then rip the 2×6 in half and glue together to form the mortises. My new MF 85 should work nicely on those wide dadoes.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Nice work Terry.

I am having trouble visualizing the dado method. My little monkey mind will have to wait for the pictures.


----------



## Mosquito

He means, if you have the dado in the board and rip it in half, you'll have 2 boards with the same dado, at the same spot. Then flip one on to the other and glue it, you now have the 2 dado's form the mortise for the tenon.

I've never tried that method before…


----------



## ITnerd

Nice Manly DTs, Terry.

Tony, I think this is what he's referring to:


----------



## AnthonyReed

Hiya IT!

Got it, thank ya fellas.


----------



## Mosquito

That's not what I thought it was, I thought it was a dado across the face of the board, then glued face to face… either way, same idea I guess


----------



## TerryDowning

Close Chris, but Mos is correct.

You can see it in the Old timey wood worker episode 3
I know Stumpy's not for everyone, but I liked this project and it did inspire me to get busy in the shop.
about 16 minutes in he goes over the tenons
at 18:25 or so he starts talking about the construction of the foot by using dadoes.
Completed mortise at 20:34


----------



## john2005

Major score today! After 6ish months of surfing craigslist, hounding local mills, looking for deals at every lumber yard and talking to whoever I could about cheap wood, I got this fine score. 100 bucks delivered. Local Birch from craigslist. Guy was moving and couldn't take it with him.










Only bummer is that its all 1". Gonna be a lot of glue! Half of it is rough which means that I only have to mill half. It is definitely good looking wood. I may still get some wide 8/4 stuff for the leg and tail vise but that should be minimal.

Now I just need a green light from the doc


----------



## theoldfart

Great score John, I've not worked with birch yet. The bench 'll be outstanding.


----------



## SamuelP

Here
is a nice set of vises if any two want to go halvies.


----------



## jmartel

Nice score, John. Mine was all 4/4 stock, so I know all too well about the glue-ups you'll be doing. I ended up getting 8/4 for the leg vise, but the rest is all 4/4.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sam, they're awesome but being sold separately.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Atta boy John. Patience pays off. Forget a gallon of glue….you'll need two. But it'll be worth it. I'm happy for you brother.

Hey. What's one board weigh? If it's less than 10lbs….you could start running them through planer


----------



## waho6o9

Congratulations on your score John, that's a fine stack of

lumber.


----------



## john2005

Thanks guys. Pretty excited today.
Also turns out, not a hernia. So no weight restriction anymore, but I do have pancreatitis so highly limited diet and activity. Hopefully I can kick this faster than the hernia and cut some boards!


----------



## shampeon

I've been scarce lately, but just quit my job and have a couple weeks before starting my new one. Time to get on the horse on my various projects.

























Like these hand forged holdfasts, for example.


----------



## RaggedKerf

^Okay that is cool!


----------



## CL810

^ And now for something completely different.


----------



## theoldfart

John, good news and get well soon.

Shamp, *WOW* I'd get those al rusty drooling on them. Outstanding work.


----------



## chrisstef

Shamp - you dog, those look cool! You, not so much  Best of luck on the new gig bud, hope things work out for ya.


----------



## waho6o9

Good luck on your endeavors Shamp and thanks for

checking in bro.


----------



## shampeon

Thanks, everyone.

chrisstef, luckily I was taking the picture. My friend Mike is the one in the sunglasses holding the piece. His friend John was showing the proper bashing technique for flattening the end. The trick is to hit it flat with the piece against the curved top of the anvil horn.


----------



## john2005

^sweet holdfasts. Building them yourself is cooler yet


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Ian! That is sweet


----------



## mochoa

Shamp, looks like fun! Congrats on the new gig!


----------



## CL810

*!!*Galoot warning*!!* Purists should skip to the next post!!!

To cut the dovetail through tenons for my bench, I decided not to rely on my hand saw and use a table saw jig to get more consistent results. This method is highly inflammatory and I do not recommend it as a general practice.

All I needed was two cuts. One is simple the other, well….









The initial 30 degree cut is very simple; tilt the blade 30 degrees and cut to desired depth. The second cut is not so easy so I made this "jig" for the table saw.









Since the second 30 degree cut had to be fed from the outfeed side of the table saw it introduces a number of risks that do not need to be listed. Hence the feather board to keep the leg from being pulled away from the fence, the board clamped to the fence to keep the leg from being pulled "up", and the stop to keep the leg from being pulled in to far.

This picture shows the leg being fed into the table saw from the outfeed side.









This picture is a closeup of the actual cut.









I thought about this procedure long and hard before attempting it. I know it has to violate a number of safety rules but I think the precautions I took made it safe.


----------



## theoldfart

I'll stick with a hand saw, I can manage the kick back!


----------



## terryR

Clayton, your balls are 4 times larger than mine! 

Looks like you covered all your bases, though. Did you have a buddy stand on the infeed side just in case?


----------



## CL810

*Terry*, no I didn't. the risk here is the pull action of the blade throwing the board up and out or on through. I think the normal infeed side would not be the place to stand.

With all the precautions I took the actual cut was very unremarkable. I felt very little tug on the board. Had I not seen something like this set up before I don't think I would have ever attempted it.


----------



## terryR

Oh no…only kidding about the infeed side of the table saw. Goodness, I'm stupid enough to have seen kickback in person.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, my. That was a warning I should have heeded. ;-)


----------



## john2005

CL, why didn't you just turn the blade around?! That could have been dangerous!...


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ha! John beat me to it. Ya, just turn the blade around Clayton….duh! LOL

Man, a 30 degree bevel does create a predicament using a left tilt tablesaw. Now a 45 degree, like I used on mine, is more doable. With the blade set at 45, you can make one cut with the board flat, and the other with the board on edge.

Well Clayton, they're done now. And if your hand saw skills are like mine, those cuts are a lot more accurate having been done it that way.


----------



## jmartel

Well if it was an older contractor saw, you might have been able to actually turn the blade around if you switched the poles on the motor. I wouldn't do it with a sawstop though.


----------



## CL810

I can't believe I did not think to turn the blade around! )


----------



## Boatman53

The way I look at is if you turned the blade around you would be burning your way through the cut, not cutting. Unless of course you reverse the rotation.
Jim


----------



## DanKrager

CL, I would have gone for the galoot points of a drawknife and spokeshave… 
DanK


----------



## bandit571

Maybe one should have used a saw like this??









9 pointer, too.


----------



## merrill77

I'm a mostly a powertool guy, but I don't think I'd have tried that. Though in theory, this is really no different than a climb cut with a router. I would have started with the blade low and take it a little at a time.


----------



## john2005

potentially dumb question. Is the dovetailed leg necessary? Refining the sketch-up of my Roubo plans, but I had just planned on connecting the legs with a single (possibly a double) through tenon. I notice everybody else has a dovetail on that outer through tenon. What am I missing here? What is it there for? I am assuming pressure from the leg vise, but wouldn't a plain through tenon (although I guess it would be a lap joint then) work? Do I need it?

Course then the next question is what is the best way to cut it? Build it in, or cut it later? Thx


----------



## CL810

*John*, check out Dave Barron's bench build in his blog (scroll down to his September posts.)


----------



## DanKrager

Chris, in CL810 upcut, it's the height of the blade in the cut that helps keep his setup safe. The low first cut you suggest has the teeth pulling hard almost parallel to the table, making it tough to keep the piece in the shop. In his setup, the teeth are climbing closer to vertical pushing the workpiece against the top guide and not in a position to pull it out of his hand so forcefully.
DanK


----------



## CL810

*Dan* is exactly right. As soon as the teeth broke through there was hardly any pull at all.


----------



## Iguana

Or you could have used a blade with a negative hook angle (e.g. miter saw blade) for the second cut. It would have wanted to push the piece up, which your top guide prevented, but not pull it through.

Doesn't matter now, but I'm filing that trick away for when I build mine…

Did you consider running it vertically with an angled sled? Would have limited the length of the tenon to about 3", I suppose…


----------



## CL810

Did you consider running it vertically with an angled sled?

I did. I had enough confidence in this approach, and thought it simpler, that I went with it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Jeepers. Everybody's still worked up over Clayton's Evil Knievel tablesaw antics;-) I've tried crazier stuff….without all the precautions. But I am a redheaded step-child. So there ya go.

John- I'll take a stab at your roubo dovetail question. Basically, is this joint:









Way stronger than this joint?:









In my opinion…..not a whole lot. If one is to make a through tenon that is to be flush with the front edge of the benchtop (like pic#1) then the dovetail makes sense because there is no 4th side to the mortise on the front and back edge of the benchtop. In reality the dovetail would prevent racking front to back more than side to side. 
I think one could make a pretty good argument that a through tenon isn't even necessary. A tenon that goes 2/3's into the top and pegged- is very strong.

So why make the dovetail joint? I can only answer for myself: 1) to challenge/push myself. 2) because it looks so friggin cool!

So might say guys like David Barron, Clayton, and I "cheated" making the joint with power tools. I don't really care. I work with the skills I have. I arrived at the same joint(s), and I love the result.

Btw I enjoyed checking out Barrons blog today. The wedged tenon is a cool idea. He made that joint look easy:








That's probably easier than my approach to through tenons. Which is to machine them oversized, then slightly taper them with hand tools. It reduces the friction when dry fitting. Mind you, you still need a small sledge hammer when dealing with massive roubo joints. 








Last, I chuckled when I saw that he laminated the outside pieces of the benchtop….Last. Thus, creating the dovetailed mortise. This was one of the ideas I had when laying in bed….racking my brain about how I could pull of that joint with the tools I had


----------



## john2005

Hey thanks Red, that is exactly the kind of answer I am looking for. "because it looks so friggin cool" is definitely a compelling argument! 
So if I understand right, Barron built his in? Tell me how you cut yours out. I'm not "seeing" a good way to make it exact without building it in, but at the same time, like you, I want to push myself and pick up some skills. Building it in would be fast, but miss the point for me I think.


----------



## theoldfart

John, keep in mind that you could make a few single joints as practice. When you think you have it dialed in make 'em for real. I chose to gamble and make mine by hand and they are not perfect nor uniform but since each one will be fit individually it doesn't matter.








I'm not in a rush at the moment so I will take my time fitting these to the bench top( currently a pile of milled planks waiting to be ripped and glued)
I do agree with Red on the strength of a dovetailed and tenoned joint. I may even wedged the tenon portion as soon as I am sure I will not have to move to CA!


----------



## CL810

OF what's this about CA?


----------



## theoldfart

My children and grandchildren are out on the Left coast. We keep going back and forth about leaving our friends and neighbors and community. We are both "Northeastern Liberals" but more to the point we love the northeast and eastern Canada. We ski, ice climb, backcountry ski, and winter camp.
A lot to think about


----------



## john2005

Hey Kevin, in the for what its worth dept., you can do all those activities here ( I have 3 trailheads within riding distance) AND we are only a hop and a skip from Canada. All the while being 20ish hours from CA, buuuuut, it CA. Thats all the closer I want to be. 

Before all of you CA people get all offended, wife is from San Diego.


----------



## theoldfart

John, how shall I say this? The Gold country where my family lives is a tad more conservative than the two of us! I'll leave it to Wayne to 'splain this, heh heh !


----------



## john2005

Ha ha! I like the idea on making some practice runs first. That should be a good use of scrap.


----------



## shampeon

I'm from San Diego originally, but have been up in NorCal for more of my life now. It'd be hard to leave this.









Drove down the coast, got some pumpkins, played in the sand, enjoyed the warm autumn sun, checked out the tide pools. Can you tell this is my favorite time of year?


----------



## theoldfart

Shamp, your last pic is a strong reason for moving. That pic is an outstanding keeper, beautiful kids. Lucky man!

BTW, where did you get the pumpkins? My grandkids were going to get some today as well. Driving from Auburn and Nevada City.


----------



## Tugboater78

I would love being near the beach, but I'm locked inland in Kentucky. Be hard to leave the hills though.


----------



## theoldfart

^ Feel the same way about the Berkshires, specially this time of year


----------



## shampeon

theoldfart: Thank you, sir. We go to a place south of Half Moon Bay, called Arata Farms, in a canyon near the coastal bluffs. Milo likes the corn maze there especially.

Auburn and Nevada City are beautiful areas.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

+1 on the beautiful pics and kiddos shamp.

John, I made a blog about my bench build here. However, I did make it after the fact, by request. I don't have the step by step pics that would be helpful. Check it out and let me know if you have any questions.


----------



## jmartel

Old Fart. Come to the PNW. We got mountains and oceans. And Seattle/Portland tend to be liberal. Yes it rains in the winter, but the east coast gets more rain than Seattle and Portland do. I moved to Seattle from Connecticut last December, and wouldn't move back.

Frankly, all those activities you listed are probably better out here than it is on the east coast. Lots of good quality snow, instead of icy ski slopes like in the NE.


----------



## theoldfart

JM, how quickly you forget! That's not ice, its New England packed powder. Out there they call it Sierra Cement! However Mt. Bachelor is calling my name. Could see myself tellemarking on pillows. Then maybe ice at Lee Vining, sigh


----------



## jmartel

Well, Whistler is only about 4 hours away from me currently. I do believe that it is consistently ranked as the #1 ski resort in North America. Plus, we have at least 4 others here in Washington on this side of the sound.


----------



## RPhillips

You haven't experienced Snowboarding until you've been to the Blue Ridge Mountains. Powders' for Noobs, Ice is where the real pro's cut their teeth.


----------



## unisaw

I love some of the benches in this thread but I'm probably going this route:

Chris Schwarz 2 day Workbench

I currently have the new fangled bench (John White @FWW) and find the bar clamp vises to be a royal PITA. Plus, not being able to add bench dogs to the top or vise is a constant obstacle to improving my hand tool skills.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Cool! Post some of your build here if you get time. I can see the draw to a bench like that. It's every bit as functional as a roubo, but about half the work to build.

Only thing I would add is a deadman. It's an easy add-on to avoid doing this:


----------



## donwilwol

2 day Workbench, so we'll expect pictures on Thursday!

Red, Or a vise and a deadman.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh ya, it doesn't have a vise does it. Ok vise then deadman. Neither of those things take a lot of time. The real time savings in on the top.


----------



## JayT

Wait, on that other thread, people were talking about theses things called "trees" in their yard. Glen got me fixed up that they are big weeds that make a bunch of compost, so we are cool there. Now you guys bring up something called a "beach" that looks very much like a flat version of the sandhills of Nebraska, near where I grew up, but what is that big area of water in Shamp's pic? You guys have to take it easy on us landlocked flatlanders.

That pic of the pumpkin patch is awesome, Shamp! Nothing like quality family time.


----------



## donwilwol

My wife always wanted a place by the water. It just rust my planes!


----------



## CL810

Tackling 8/4 cherry


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff. A 608 and a bud light. I think we'd be good friends


----------



## donwilwol

That's some nice looking cherry. Its also good you saved the real beer for when the work is done


----------



## CL810

Yea Don, I really could have used a Guinness extra stout but the BL was all there was in the fridge.


----------



## lysdexic

I am not man enough for a Guinness Extra Stout.

CL810, I see we have the same orange, big box store jointer. That dang thing has never let me down. One of the pleasant surprises in my shop.


----------



## chrisstef

True story - one single 24oz extra stout and i peed in my then girlfriends bed. Shes now my wife. Bless her heart.


----------



## RPhillips

Guinness makes you strong! hell, I even put the stuff in my chili.


----------



## theoldfart

My grandfather had my mother drink stout to help her gain weight! He was 6'2" and my mom is maybe 5'2". She wasn't tall like the rest of the clan and built much smaller as well. I jus' drink it cuz I like it.


----------



## RPhillips

I finally got my tool cart aka mobile work station finished so I started back on my Roubo build. Now to figure out how I want to cut my 8×8 oak timbers and exactly how to go about installing the wagon vise. I m still on the fence with the wedge vise simply because I don't think I have yet developed the skill I fell are necessary to pull it off. I was going to get a wooden screw for my vise from a fellow LJ'er, but the timing just wasn't right, besides, I already had a Lee Valley one I had purchased earlier. I still need to learn how to put this thing together too, I've pretty much figured it out from looking at all the pics, but once again the confidence just isn't there yet. Hell, I still have yet to make a dovetail joint. 

So far, I got 3 of my 4 legs planed down and fairly flat and square. Boy, I sure could use a jointer/planer about now, my arms are killing me.


----------



## RPhillips

What do you guys suggest I do to fill in all the cracks in the wood. I'm thinking some sort of black epoxy would work,, but not sure exactly where to start. Is there an actual name for this process?


----------



## donwilwol

I would mix some sawdust and titebond to fill the cracks. Epoxy will work also. Still mix in some saw dust if they are big cracks, or darken the epoxy.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I use epoxy and dust on the big ones, superglue and dust on the little ones.

You can do it Rob. Go with a plan that pushes you a little. Break in down into steps. Go for it.


----------



## merrill77

I used plain old epoxy to fill a crack in my benchtop.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Great stuff Clayton.

+1 BRK, you got this Rob.


----------



## RGtools

*RPhillips* Awesome work so far. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Theres gotta be an LJ in the area who would let poor Rob use a surface planer for about an hour


----------



## RPhillips

That's kinda the problem, I have no formal plan. I can see it in my head what needs to be done, but it's the things that I can't see that's the problem. Like for example, how to do the dovetail joint on the end (does the dovetail slide over all the end boards or is it just the outer two and the others just butt up flush), or how to build and install the tail/wagon vise, or how I should cut my boards 2×4 or 4×4 or 4×8?

I was going to buy Chris Swartz's Red book, but I wouldn't be delivered until Nov, so I canceled it. I'm not sure if I should be the blue or the red one, but the last time I went to B&N they had the red book so i"m going to swing by there and pick it up.

...and on the Cracks/Epoxy, can I just use regular epoxy like Locktite in the double barrel syringe and just add some Rit dye to it? Do I need to add teh sawdust? what purpose does it serve?


----------



## merrill77

I didn't add dye or sawdust to mine. I can't think of a purpose for either other than changing the look. Ace brand epoxy, I think I used…any general-purpose should do fine.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Rob- I would definitely read a book or two while your prepping you lumber. The Workbench book by Scott Landis is also very good. I can send you my copy if you'd like. 
The sawdust is merely for color. With small cracks, I've even found it will take the stain. Probably not entirely necessary on a bench.


----------



## woodcox

I found a new ten foot Glulam a few weeks ago for cheap. Which prompted me getting a couple planes off ebay. First one is a maroon goon NOS Stanley #5. I also found a broken staple jointing and wasted the three hours I had just put into that iron! In hindsight I learned how to micro bevel on the next session. 
X-cut and glued back together. (heaviest drill bit I have and 40 pounds of curry shot helping with alignment








note: HF's "katana" series f clamps. noice huh?
I planed the cupping out of both sides but there is still a little twist I need to fix. I'm gonna skirt with white oak next. My new favorite is a type 15 Stanley #6. It must have been a good user for someone, who's name is stamped on the side, because the sweet hart iron and chip breaker are the same length!

Been good to get back on the bench again! Stoked tonight, as I won a partial Veritas twin screw off ebay. Just the screws and nuts. No covers, chain, hardware or handles but at less than a quarter of what LV wants, I think I can cobble the rest. I've been following along, GOOD work around here as always!


----------



## CL810

Leg pieces ready for glue up. Using Dave Barron's method for DT and wedge tenon legs. I'm being a bit cautious and holding off on the glue up until I have the bench top boards ready so I can see how the dry fit goes.


----------



## john2005

^Very nice you two!


----------



## waho6o9

What John2005 said!


----------



## terryR

Clayton, sexy legs! I'm jealous…

Rob, be careful what you add to color epoxy. Some agents used as carriers for the pigment can prevent curing completely. Some companies sell pigments special made for their epoxy, I use System3, and I don't think it's just hype anymore. But, those are expensive, sawdust is free. 

The tubes of LockTite epoxy should work fine.

My cabinet maker and painter best friend has sorta discovered another method that I love…Elmer's Fiberglass Resin. He colors it with any color acrylic or oil paint and fills gaps. Of course, black and dark brown look the best. Cures while you eat lunch, and back to work finishing…

Oh…I…umm…use the ROS to remove that fiberglas junk, not even a cheapo plane! it's messy but quite cheap.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Clayton- totally stoked your going for Baron's style of bench.


----------



## CL810

Opinions needed.










The distance from the top of the screw to the top of the bench will determine two things: first, how much of the board's face can be clamped and second, how far you have to bend over to crank the vise screw.

Is there a magic number? The screws in vises I've used to date have been about 5" below the bench top and I've had no problems with them. But I can appreciate the flexibility of putting the screw in as low as possible. Schwarz recommends 9" and that's exactly the max I can go.

So, somewhere between 5" and 9". Is there a sweet spot or is it just personal preference.


----------



## merrill77

There's one more thing - it determines the mechanical advantage of the vice. Well, the relative distances between the top, the screw and the lower stop. The mechanical advantage is less than 1, regardless of the dimensions, since it is a class 3 lever (so should we call it a mechanical disadvantage?). But none-the-less, it is a pretty important factor for a vice  The higher up the screw is, the greater the mechanical advantage - i.e. the clamping force.


----------



## TerryDowning

Sawbench update

Tenons cut on the legs









Started the Mortises, this is what I meant about cutting a dado first then ripping in half lengthwise to form the mortise.









1st dado is outlined, now I just need to hog it out. 3 more to go. Thinking my MF 85 will make short work of that.


----------



## RPhillips

Since my bench is being made with reclaimed lumber (if you want to call it that) most the wood has some pretty heavy cracks running through it. I kinda like the way the cracks give it character, so I'm wanting to go with a contrasting color, preferably black. I seen it done somewhere before and thought it looked really cool.

*Red* yeah, that's pretty much what I was hoping to do, just need to get my hands on a book or two.


----------



## chrisstef

Rob - Quikwood.

http://www.amazon.com/Quickwood-Epoxy-Putty-Dark-Ounce/dp/B000AA5J74/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1382033802&sr=8-4&keywords=quikwood

Premixed. Mush it up, jam it in there, and sand it smooth.


----------



## jmartel

CL810. I used 9" on my leg vise.


----------



## donwilwol

CL810, mines 12". It don't need to be that deep, I just made it without any research. It works fine. Its here. but look at the next part to see my upgrade.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Clayton- I went with the 9". I don't use the full depth very often. I'm sure could move it up some if you wanted. Or just get a big arse wheel like Don's. No bending over

Rob- if your not sure about vises, layout, function etc. The blue Schwarz book is really good for that.


----------



## CL810

Thanks guys!


----------



## theoldfart

Rod, I can lend you the Blue Schwarz, I'm still using the Red Schwarz! PM me if interested.


----------



## Boatman53

Cl810 I've got 6" above the screw on my vise. It works fine. The best thing with the leg vise is no side guide bars so you have from the top of the bench to the bottom of the chop along side the screw for clamping depth.
Boy it is hard to keep up with all that's going on around here. I've got one more weekend of cleaning out my dads house, and I'll have a bit more time for all of what is going on around here.
Jim


----------



## TerryDowning

Progress on the mortises with a little MF 85 fillister action
1 down 3 to go
















cleaned up with a MF 07 angle rabbet pane
MF No. 9 smoother 
and my cherished 60 1/2 Low angle block









Started the second but had to get to work


----------



## Alexis

-


----------



## CL810

Future vise chop brought to you by the numbers 5 & 8.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

You just like dangling that 608 like a seductive carrot…..lol

Gonna make on helluva chop!


----------



## lysdexic

I like what you are doing there CL810


----------



## chrisstef

Some tasty shavings there ..


----------



## TerryDowning

More progress on the sawbench this weekend

Feet for the saw bench almost complete, I just need to finish squaring the one in the vise









Dovetails complete









Draw boar the tenons for the feet, fit the tops, and finish the wagon vise and she's done.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Nice showing TD. Fun to watch.

That is going to be a beautiful chop Clayton.


----------



## john2005

Finally up to some work. Kinda off to a rough start though. About half of my wood is like this. I can't decide if I should just glue it all together like normal or put a layer over the top of 2-3" wide boards to give it a better appearance. Whatevs, I got time. Thoughts?


----------



## lysdexic

A layer of what? I am confused.


----------



## DanKrager

I'm not a certified wood expert, but that looks like paper birch, a very soft wood in my experience. ??? If it is, I wouldn't use it for a workbench top. 
DanK


----------



## merrill77

john2005 - I see no reason for the added effort of covering up the glued-up face on a workbench. It might even give you trouble with uneven movement later, if you are not careful with alignment (the tangential and radial expansion rates can be quite different). Some people even prefer the glued-up look. Here's mine:










Also, birch will be fine for a bench. According to the FPL Wood Book, paper birch has a hardness of 910 (dry). That is nearly as hard as cherry and harder than nearly all of the common SPF (spruce/pine/fir) varieties, which are frequently used for benches. Long-leaf pine, which is one of the harder southern yellow pines, has a hardness of 870. The birch is also denser than most of the SPF varieties, cherry and several maple species. Personally I'd have preferred a softer wood for my bench - I'd rather have a dent in my bench than in the furniture part that I just dropped on the edge of it. But red oak was what I had available, so that's what I used.

If hardness, strength and weight were truly critical to building a good bench, we should all be building our benches from Ipe. Solid construction and a design that meets your needs are far, far more important!

We look forward to more posts on your project!


----------



## RPhillips

*Merrill* very insightful post. Thanks


----------



## terryR

Merrill. that is a lovely bench! I love the color of the oak. I'm probably gonna build up my tool well into individual boxes as you've done…looks very useful…especially when 1/2 are up-side down, I bet!

Guys, my Gramercy holdfasts aren't holding worth a crap these days. Should I rough up the steel or the holes?

Sure want a handful of these Veritas toys…









...but at $75 each, a handful would cost as much as an LN LA smoother!


----------



## lysdexic

Terry,

Roughing up the stem of Gramercy holdfasts worked for me. I used like a 60 grit paper and twisted the holdfast while wrapping the stem with the sand paper.


----------



## Mosquito

I did the same as Scotty with my Gramercy holdfasts. I think I used 40 grit, as that's what I had on hand. Mauricio also had the tip to use mineral spirits to clean them off before using them too, which helped quite a bit in my case. Maybe using something like that on the inside of the holdfast holes you drilled, if they look greasy?


----------



## merrill77

Terry - Thanks! The tool trays don't look as nice upside-down, but they do provide a (more-or-less) flat, continuous surface when needed).

I used 120 grit on my Gramercy holdfasts and they hold great. Make sure you go around the shaft with the paper, not up and down (same for inside your holes). Also cleaned them with MS (prior to the sanding, IIRC).


----------



## terryR

Thanks, guys, I sure didn't think about scuffing the shafts in a spiral fashion. Doh! How do ya keep them from rusting down the road? I assume wax and oil are no-no's?

Merrill, those trays look fine on the bottoms to me! very functional, and so simple.


----------



## mochoa

I think a light coat of out is fine just not the greas they com in. Did you see what McGuire does, he dimples the shaft with a nail set and the grip like crazy.


----------



## terryR

Thanks for that tip, Maur, been thinking of dimpling the shaft.
Careful, Stef…


----------



## theoldfart

Not to worry about Stef, dimples aint his thing. Large dents however are another story…...


----------



## AnthonyReed

Damn that is beautiful Merrill!


----------



## merrill77

Thanks, *Tony*.

*Terry* - I did nothing to protect them and mine haven't rusted at all. I grew up in the rust belt and I HATE rust, so I run a dehumidifier in my shop and nothing rusts. The roughness from minor surface rust might actually make them hold better!


----------



## RGtools

2nd the Grammercy sandpaper mod. The other trick I have heard of is to drill out the underside of your 3/4 hole with a 1" bit effectivly reducing the thickness of the bench to the 2.5" ballpark (hammer activated holdfasts get more leverage in a thinner top).

*Question for the Panel*

I have a bench base that I am building (some of you might remember the plans that have changed little) and last night when I marked out the joinery I got a non-fuzzy fealing. The issue is that the stretcher for the end assemblies is going to be drawbored into a 4" leg, so I want that as deep as possible. The long stetchers that connect the assemblies are connected with Veritas Bench bolts. I would like the stretchers to be flush with the outside of the legs, but I NEED the stretchers to be the same height to support a shelf, and later a tool box. I marked out the joinery to get the deepest tenon I could on the drabored joint, but as a result ended up with a side wall on my bolted mortise of only 3/8". Is that too weak? The bolted stretchers are ~1.5

If so, would you…

a) set the stretcher in the middle of the leg and lose the flush factor? You also lose some mortise depth on the drawbored joints
b) Use a bare faced tenon on the bolted joint (sizes please) ?
c) any ideas?


----------



## AnthonyReed

A simple furring strip could get them back to the same height for the shelf construction.


----------



## merrill77

I'm not sure I can visualize the details of your design…but a bed-bolted M&T joint doesn't depend on a glue joint and thus the surface area of the tenon cheeks is largely irrelevant. Heck, you don't need a tenon at all. I have 8 joints like this on my bench and didn't use tenons on any of them. The bench is solid as a rock. I used hardware from the local store.


----------



## donwilwol

Ryan, I'm having a little trouble visualize as well, but another possible option is make the draw pin a double pin(top and bottom), add a groove in the center for the bolt to recess. It would depend on he width of the stretcher as well. .


----------



## john2005

*Merrill* Thanks for the advice and encouragement. I think that was what I needed. It would be a lot of extra work just for looks. I should have noted that all my wood is 4/4. I think I will just run with it though. 
I like your split top design, it is making me reconsider how I am building mine. Lucky me I haven't glued anything together yet.


----------



## TaybulSawz

I just finished this 2" thick 36" x 78" x 38" tall Solid Oak workbench for my neighbor. It's made from Local Trees milled 2 yrs ago after a horrific ice storm took down a lot of trees. Lumber was stacked and air dried for 2 years. I then ripped, jointed and planed it to size and made the top and base. Used 5" 300lb rated Full swivel dual locking casters. Stain is Colonial maple with 4 coats of Varathane. I'm really not sure how it will be used, He just wanted a Basic Work Table. I kinda went a bit overboard.

I think he'll be pleased.


----------



## RGtools

Sorry, I wish I had pictures, but I hope this helps.

I guess was I am worried about is the side of the tenon to blow out the front of the mortise wall (which is only 3/8 thick) when racked with lateral pressure. The tenon is just a stub at 1" long, and I should mention that the stretchers are about 5" wide.

Is this an irrellavant concern with the bolt?


----------



## donwilwol

Ryan, you don't think the front and back stretchers will be enough support for the shelf? Just drop the end stretchers a little?

I would say it would be a bit of a concern if the bolts loosened, which they tend to do.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Taybul, very nice work on that top. It's beautiful, well done!


----------



## donwilwol

that Solid Oak workbench looks nice enough to go in a house. Nice work.


----------



## RGtools

The front and back stretchers could supprt the shelf and the tool-box. I just think it looks goofy.

That being said, I think if I push the stretcher back 3/4", I could add a pretty simple deadman that would serve as a nice clamping surface. And I could still push pretty close to a 2" deep tenon.


----------



## merrill77

*TaybulSawz* that is way too nice to use as a workbench!


----------



## TaybulSawz

Yeah, that's what my wife said. She says I always go overboard and make things to nice for the shop. It's not supposed to be furniture!!!!


----------



## lj61673

I would be concerned with that mitered frame for the top. When that top expands, and it will, those mitered joints will open.


----------



## terryR

A BIG thanks to everyone who mentioned sanding my Gramercy holdfasts in the spiral manner! I used 60 grit paper for about 2 or 3 passes, and the difference in staying power is day and night. Just a tap with the mallet locks them in place like never before!

For your pleasure…


----------



## RGtools

Plunge a test mortise in scrap stock as laid out currently. Insert crowbar, apply pressure….CRACK…drink beer while playing with dividers to design a better joint.

All in a good Tuesday afternoon.


----------



## dbray45

Here is a question for everyone -
I have 4 slabs of QS red oak - 2" thick (rough cut), about 15-20" wide, 6' long.

Should I cut these up and laminate them or just double them up (4") thick, have the grain criss cross for strength and go with it?


----------



## merrill77

I see no reason to cut thin just to glue them back up. Especially if it is already QS. I don't know what you mean by criss crossing the grain, but if you mean laminating them with opposing grain direction, like plywood, then I would recommend against it.


----------



## jmartel

Doubling up wouldn't be very good due to wood movement being different between the upper and lower layer. I'd rip them and then glue.


----------



## theoldfart

Definitely rip and glue.


----------



## Mosquito

is there a reason 2" thick wouldn't work? What kind of bench are you going for?

Otherwise, I'd rip and laminate


----------



## shampeon

How much thickness are you going to lose when dimensioning the boards? That is, how cupped, twisted, etc. are the rough cut boards? Because fairly straight and stable 2" rough will end up being 1.75" final, maybe more.

But if they're badly cupped or twisted, you'll either have to rip them into thinner widths, or take off a lot more material planing them to thickness.

Considering they are QS, if you'd need to rip and laminate to get the thickness you want, I'd save the boards for furniture and get regular ol' plain-sawn red oak boards to laminate up.

Oh, and I agree that trying to laminate the boards one on top of another isn't the best idea.


----------



## dbray45

3.5-4" top.

The boards have the grain going lengthwise at about 20 degrees - not exactly linear. I figure that I will lose 1/4" flattening one side. The problem with a QS slab like this, the strength is much less, especially after drilling the holes for dogs and stops.

I have four 6' pieces and will use only 2 for this top, the others will be a counter or something, don't know yet. Have four 4" x 6' posts for the legs and braces.


----------



## dbray45

The other thing - if you have a flat sawn board, rip and glue, you are basically making a QS laminated top.


----------



## shampeon

It sounds like your boards are more rift sawn than quartered. I wouldn't worry about the strength of an oak top, regardless of the grain. While the underside doesn't need to be as dead flat as the top, you still need it pretty flat, so if you're going to lose almost 1/2" flattening the 2" rough boards, I think you should probably rip and laminate. That way you're assured of getting a true 3.5-4" top (which will be ridiculously beefy). It's also a much easier glue up.

I actually think ripping and laminating flat-sawn boards makes for a nicer looking top, since you're getting the medullary rays, but I'm sure your bench will look great.


----------



## woodcox

"Two vintage leg vise screws. Great working condition. Both in pictures included." Starting bid $19.00. Same seller listed the two 63" clamps for ten each. Yeah buddy!! He also had a VERY old saw vise for a song, which he did not know what it was, I should have snatched too. I'm waiting for a new chain so I can start laying it out. I told the wife I want the chain guard for my birthday. Mayb make one out of wood?


----------



## dbray45

Thanks for the input from everyone.


----------



## RPhillips

Nice find Woodcox!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Congrats Wood, great score.


----------



## TerryDowning

Saw Bench Assembly begins!


----------



## CL810

Way cool!


----------



## chrisstef

No suck there Terry.


----------



## TerryDowning

Only because there is no close up of the joints.

Once I do close up on those …..


----------



## chrisstef

Hey, its a saw bench, not a stickley. Projects like those are all about practice. Hone your craft young Jedi.


----------



## CL810

Enough clamps but I need to work on the faster or more hands. Used TB Extend glue but I think one area on the first board set up enough that it would not clamp flush like it did in the dry run. Very minor, but I should have done only 4 boards.


----------



## theoldfart

CL810, I count 13 clamps. How long was the glue up? Was there enough clamps? Will you come and do mine? 'Fridge full of beer!! ;0)


----------



## CL810

14 clamps, Kevin. Man if only you were only 900 miles away instead of 1,000 I'd be there!


----------



## jmartel

I need more clamps. I have a woefully inadequate supply.

3 F-clamps
2 Pipe clamps
6 irwin quick grip clamps
Some wooden hand screws
a few band clamps
Heavy objects around the garage
ratchet straps normally used for loading motorcycles


----------



## donwilwol

funny you guys are talking about clamps. After work this afternoon I took 8 bar clamps out of the citric acid (screw end only) and got them all cleaned up. 6 4'ers and 2 8'ers. 2 are Jorgensen, the rest i'm not sure, but are quality. I paid $10 each. All cleaned up beautifully.


----------



## theoldfart

Good deal Don.


----------



## lysdexic

Clayton, are you doing a split top?


----------



## DanKrager

You collecting clamps now DonW? 
Is there a "clamps of your dreams" thread?
DanK


----------



## CL810

Lys, no. Been tempted though. Are you happy with yours?


----------



## john2005

I find this all very ironic in that I was clamp shopping so that I would have enough when I get to that point. I guess its in the air


----------



## Tugboater78

If anyone wants to look at my shop tour blog and count my clamps… If anyone wants to stop by and borrow them, have at it, I won't be using them for next 3 weeks, have 14 6" quick grips, 12 12" not pictured, not a bad collection for maybe 100 dollars invested, most of that was on the 50" parrell besseys.


----------



## donwilwol

you don't really collect clamps because you can never have to many. although i'm finally getting to the point where I don't run out.


----------



## woodcox

Betta ,hammered dark bronze.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, sharp looking vise screw!


----------



## Airframer

I have a question about plane stops. Are they really all that useful on a bench with a wagon vise? It seems to me that they would do the same thing unless I am missing the purpose of the planing stop. I see that a lot of you have incorporated one into your bench and am just curious if I should look into installing one into mine but I think I am missing the point of it.


----------



## lysdexic

CL810,

I like my split top. The gap comes in handy. The stop gap comes in handy. I've not found the tool holding capability that useful. Who wants to store there tools upright in the middle of the bench. A tool holder on the back side makes more sense.

What I did not like about the split top is the look. I prefer a monolithic look. If you look at the ST Roubos out there many of them have the stop gap shorter than the top because the followed the Wood Whispers plan. However, during the build he went with that length because that was all he had leftover already milled. No other reason.

The monolithic look is easily achieved by a full length stop of matching wood. Another tactic to achieve a monolithic look is to extend the end caps all the way across.

I find the ST Roubo has some advantages with minimal draw back.


----------



## lysdexic

Also, the split top does require a top stretcher, front to back, adding bit more work.


----------



## Airframer

Random Saturday morning bench shot… Finally getting some work done today for the first time in 3 weeks..


----------



## Mosquito

lovin' the #45 action


----------



## woodcox

Hard maple, 8/4 aprons and 12/4 for the vise chops.


----------



## CL810

Non that's a slab! Awesome Woodcox!


----------



## CL810

Lys, I am planning a removable tool holder on the back of the bench for the reasons you stated.


----------



## RPhillips

Lys, once again beautiful bench. That is pretty much is my dream bench. I guess it the BenchCrafted hardware…


----------



## JayT

I have a question about plane stops. Are they really all that useful on a bench with a wagon vise?

I don't have a wagon vise, just an end vise, but I use my planing stops quite a bit when planing with the grain, such as flattening with a jointer or smoothing. It makes it very easy to work one side of a board, flip it, work the other and then switch to the next one quickly.


----------



## Airframer

Ah so it was Roubo's answer to not having the clamping ability that the wagon vise provides. Good to know.


----------



## theoldfart

I just use an "L" shaped piece that clamps in my face vise. For thicker stock I just angle it up.


----------



## lysdexic

Agree. A wagon vise somewhat negates the need for planing stops. I have not seen a reason for a planing stop YET.


----------



## Mosquito

I was thinking about adding a planning stop that I could hook into the tool well, and hold with the leg vise. Reason being, that my bench is only 4' long, and my wagon vise dogs only go about 38". Just looking for a little more room, I guess.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I don't regret putting the planing stop on my bench. I just took Schwarz's word for it at the time. But I use it for for things that don't clamp well, like small pieces and thin strips of wood etc. Quick and easy.


----------



## john2005

Finally got the energy to go out and get some wood prepped. Here is about 90% of the top.










Like most of my projects, I have decided to do it the hardest way possible. But it should look cool. ...should….


----------



## theoldfart

John, awfully big bag of shavings!


----------



## CL810

Maple grain is gonna put me in a straight jacket.










The dry fit looks solid for the center of the top.


----------



## lysdexic

That looks awesome Clayton. The top looks really long. How long is it?


----------



## woodcox

One side is is now flat. Downside to glulams, grain switches to much to do this by hand. Three hours planing the cup out of both sides and still had to remove 3/8" total thickness. So I used Mark Spagnuolo's method to route the twist out and also will get the thickness I need. Worked out great. I used an 1 1/4" bowl bit and my custom sled. Tedious setup and over an hour of routing produced a huge pile of fluff. I removed about one total bf in a single pass!


































Was at it till 3 am this morning. One side down, one to go. Once dead flat and 3D square are achieved, I can start attaching the hardwood.


----------



## RPhillips

just ordered me some System Three T-88 and some of their black dye to fill in all the cracks on my legs. My Blue bench book should be here on Thurs, so hopefully I'll get this beast done soon.

Starting to rethink using a wedged wagon vise again…


----------



## Tugboater78

Man, I'm really gonna have to do a glueup when I get home, you guys are making me jealous


----------



## JawShoeAh

This is what my workbench usually looks like:









This is what I would like you all to think it actually looks like.









Nice little air compressor, and router.









Fully restored Craftsman 110, with a brand new TEFC motor.









Awesome fence system.









I'm just a basic home owner wood shop kinda guy. This does it for me.


----------



## CL810

*Lys* - 7'. I did a double take myself when I posted the pic. Optical illusion I guess.

*Joshua* - clever space saving work bench.


----------



## Texcaster

I built this bench a little over a year ago, in six days over an eight day block. I was 65, but felt 61. I've done this before. No hand tools on this one, except a final scrape of the top. The main slab (minus dog rail and back rail) is 16 inches to suit my 16 inch over and under. It is made of Euro Beech. I've included my old bench.

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv225/billandmimi/CP2210006.jpg

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv225/billandmimi/BP2210020.jpg

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv225/billandmimi/AP2210009.jpg

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv225/billandmimi/P1250005.jpg

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv225/billandmimi/P1250004.jpg

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv225/billandmimi/P1220007.jpg

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv225/billandmimi/P1220003.jpg

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv225/billandmimi/P1220002.jpg

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv225/billandmimi/P1010014.jpg

Sorry fellas, I keep doing something wrong. Links and codes come up in the post instead of the photos themselves. Any suggestions ?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sweet bench Tex.

As far as the photos. If you put an exclamation point (!) before and after each pic link…they should work.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop




----------



## Texcaster

Thanks, Red. I just realized if you do a slide show it shows the whole folder. The only thing in the folder I didn't build is the Madrone guitar bass.

Thanks Smitty as well for sorting it out


----------



## Texcaster

Thanks Smitty for sorting it out!


----------



## woodcox

Measuring the twist.









This side went a lot faster as I had less to remove.









I came within 1/16" top to bottom from corner to corner thickness and I can live with that.









Despite mask and glasses my lungs and eyes are payin the price. Hours later I can still feel the router in my hands and back. I got a speed controller to bring rpm down for that big bit which made the HF router vibrate a little. I will hit the top side with a sander and call it good. Good experience, ....now onto Coronas!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ back at ya, Moron.


----------



## roman

fair enough


----------



## CL810

Nice bench *Tex*!


----------



## lysdexic

But you KNOW that top is flat -G. Where do you from here? Soother, sander or leave the machine marks?


----------



## RPhillips

Once I apply the epoxy to my bench legs, can it be planed or scraped? Or do I have to sand it?


----------



## john2005

+1 to the pretty sweet bench Tex


----------



## AnthonyReed

How are those saw benches coming along TD?

Looking great Clayton!

That is gorgeous Tex.

Congrats Woodcox.

Nice work Moron.


----------



## JayT

Lots of good work going on.

Rob, epoxy can be planed or scraped very easily.


----------



## TerryDowning

Minimal progress on the sawbench, had to finish this!!


















Hopefully I can get some more time in.


----------



## RPhillips

Thanks JayT.


----------



## TerryDowning

Last night and this morning, I got some time in.

I installed a stretcher on the vice side, Just to beef things up.

Pinned the feet this morning and started trimming but was getting late for the day job so I had to lay off. Here's the pics



















Draw bore good, Momgo likey









Assembly Complete!! I just need to finish trimming tenons and clean it up.









Then bore holes for the dog holes in the wedge powered wagon vise.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Very cool TD. Nice work man.


----------



## Mosquito

much fancier saw bench than mine lol Nice work


----------



## john2005

Nice work TD, I like the big dovetails. Looks good


----------



## TerryDowning

If I had planned better, the tail should really be going the other way into the face of the upright rather than on the edge. I got ahead of myself and assembled the uprights to the top first and there was no going back. so it is what it is. Should still be stout enough for sawing on though.


----------



## yuridichesky

Happy holdfasts owners, please tell me what's good holdfast shaft diameter in relation to benchtop hole diameter? Or what's good clearance between shaft and the hole wall?

I've read somewhere that gramercy holdfasts are just a hair smaller in diameter than 3/4" hole (video here confirms this). What about other makes?

The reason I'm asking is because I just got pair of HF forged by local blacksmith from 18mm (45/64") wire, and they're 2mm (5/64") smaller in diameter than my 20mm (25/32") benchtop holes, and I'm, hmm, not happy about how they perform. I did Richard Maguire's trick to get better grip, and it did help, but still it's far from being happy holdfast owner 

For the reference: holdfasts' reach is 6-1/4", benchtop is 3-1/8" thick, made of pine (experiments with counterboring from the bottom already scheduled).


----------



## Texcaster

Thanks for the comments on the bench fellas. It is based on Tage Frid's FW fall 1976 design. At the time I copied Frid's design. The tool well was a junk magnet and I was never comfortable with the face vise.


----------



## woodcox

Hardwood going on. Gluing one at a time, prolly two on each side and then aprons on front and right end. Oh and the shelf I found in the garage is hard maple and not white oak. (Newb) It is identical to the aprons and chops I just bought. Lucked out with the matchexcept this stuff is hard a rock compared to the new wood as far as planing goes.


----------



## BillWyko

Hi guys, back again, when I built my bench I mentioned to all fo you and to Veritas, I needed vises to do a lot of odd shaped projects. My latest project on the bench is a Dalek, how many of you know what that is? (if you don't, google it) I'm building it for a display at the consumer electronics show in Las Vegas in January, it'll have 40+ speakers in it. Pics tomorrow.


----------



## theoldfart

Exterminate! Exterminate!!


----------



## RPhillips

Dr. Who? 

Cool, Humid, I'll be waiting for the slideshow!


----------



## john2005

Little more progress tonight. First is a pic of all the wood for the top, all milled and ready for glue.










And this is the first of many glue-ups. I noticed 2 things. I don't have enough clamps, and most of the ones I have are really long. Whatevs










Course it's getting down into the low 20s so keeping the shop warm enough for long enough is the new chore. Dad always said, "Its always something".


----------



## woodcox

^what kind of glue are you using John? I was reading my OG Tightbond bottle, says to use when temp, glue, and material are above 50*F. My garage hangs around this temp over night lately. My top will be to width in only five glue ups, clamps are giving me blisters.You have your work cut out. We're gonna need a glue tally when ur done. You will have one solid slab when completed. Good luck.


----------



## RPhillips

Damn that's a lot of gluing! lol

Keep us posted!


----------



## john2005

Using Titebond extend. I didn't think I was fast enough to spread it out fast enough with the original. It says to use at 60+! I have a little space heater pulling backup duty, but I hate the idea of a heater like that running with sawdust around. Got down to 18 last night so I had no choice. My regular heater will hold it at bout 50-55 in this kinda weather.

And yes Rob, it is a lot of glue, but that is the wood I could get cheap. I am already thinking the gallon I bought is not going to be enough, and I have just started.


----------



## waho6o9

Cauls might help in your glue up as well.

http://www.mikes-woodwork.com/Cauls.htm

Or you can get store bought ones also.

http://www.bowclamp.com/


----------



## AnthonyReed

Looking good Woodcox.

Good luck John.

Edit: Thank you for the links Waho.


----------



## waho6o9

You're welcome Tony


----------



## terryR

No one has enough clamps.

+1 to shop made cauls


----------



## TerryDowning

Sawbench Progress

I'm calling it 90% complete. I still need to clean up the joints, flatten the top and drill the dog holes for the wagon vise.


----------



## Tugboater78

Lookin sexah


----------



## chrisstef

"So here's my lumber, Caul me maybe" - Terry Rae Jepsen


----------



## yuridichesky

Terry, bench is cool! Goes to the top of my TODO list.


----------



## Mosquito

I really like that sawbench design. I might have to do something like that, once I have more space. Would be a lot easier for ripping


----------



## waho6o9

Most excellent saw bench Terry!


----------



## Boatman53

Backing up a bit to cold weather gluing… If it is small enough this is one setup I use. The blue arches are PEX waterline. The little heater doesn't cycle too much under there. There are holes in the table so the heat goes through.









This is when I was doing the joining of the top to the legs and all the edge pieces. Just two lamps worked great.

















Jim


----------



## mochoa

Really cool bench Terry!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Very cool TD!

Edit: Clever solutions Jim.


----------



## CL810

*terryR* - love those Jorgies

*TerryD* - Can't wait to see the action shots.

After glue up of legs I cleaned up the shoulders. Mostly used a shoulder plane but some areas required a bullnose.



















And called them DONE. 









Now on to the stretchers.


----------



## shipwright

Nice looking saw bench Terry.
Let me know how you like the wagon vice. ......


----------



## grfrazee

@Boatman - ingenious way to keep your glue warm. I built my bench during Christmastime in Wisconsin in an unheated shop, so I feel your pain. That said, I did all the glue-ups with Titebond Extend at around freezing temperatures with no issues. Bench is still glued together 10 months later…


----------



## CL810

Joinery question for the panel.

I am using wedged tenons for the first time so I have nothing to go on. My bench top and legs are to be joined with wedged tenons shown here:










While examining these, I was spreading one of the sides of the tenon and was surprised by how inflexible it was. In fact, it began to crack when spread about 1/4". The legs are cherry. Since it has to move about 1/2" I am concerned about it breaking.

Is it a factor if it breaks when the wedge is hammered in? Should I apply water to the area to make it more flexible?


----------



## DanKrager

Cl810, 1/2" is an awful lot to expect a piece to bend without breaking. I doubt the strength will be compromised a lot, but it will be some. Maybe not noticeably for the application. I would for sure wet the bend with boiling hot water. The standard taper for a dovetail in hardwood is about 1:8. So if your joint is 4 " deep, the total spread at the top would be .5", or .25" on each side. Are you trying to reach 1/2" on each side?

edit: The bending wall looks very fragile to me. I leave the same thickness bending wall as the thickness of the wedge. This works well for 2" material, but I've not extended it to really thick stuff like this.

DanK


----------



## lysdexic

Very nice work Clayton. Love the shoulder plane. I don't think that have seen it before. More pics please.


----------



## john2005

^+1

*Jim*, thanks for the tip. I didn't think about only heating a portion of the shop. That would be a lot easier. The table with holes looks easy enough to build. Gonna have to work on that.

*TerryD*, that is a handsome bench.

To all, I do use shop made cauls, in fact there is one in the pic still. I had just taken the one off the end to get the sides pulled in closer. You fail I spy -


----------



## donwilwol

CL810, I typically cur the tenon about he same size, taper he hole slightly, glue and drive the wedge in. 1/2" is more than needed. 1/32 -1/16" will hold more than the wood can bare. You will never pull I apart.


----------



## CL810

The bullnose is a Record 77A. Most of the work was done with a LV medium shoulder plane.


----------



## lysdexic

Nice. Beautiful plane.

Are your tenons already wedge shaped (tapered toward the bottom) or is it the angle of the picture?


----------



## CL810

Thanks Dan & Don. I was following Dave Barron's build. He used 8 degrees which works out to 1/2" over 4". It may have something to do with the type of wood he used. I guess I'll find out when I hammer the wedges in.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That is a handsome bullnose.

I realize I'm not helping much, but what if it it severed down below? Will it hurt anything? The wedge is glued on both sides. Probably not going anywhere. Whack away


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I've always supposed some material was removed from the tenon when wedges that thick are used. But I've never seen that done / instructed before.


----------



## merrill77

I'm with Red - it may not matter if it cracks. This joint is strong because once the wedge is glued into the tenon, the tenon is wider on the end than at the shoulder. It's never coming out. Period. Assuming a good-fitting tenon, of course…especially around the shoulder.

Keep in mind that in years past, these joints were made with wood that was much greener (i.e. wetter) than what we have available today. Wedges helped compensate for shrinkage of the tenon as the wood dried. AND, since it was wetter, it was also more pliable. Even a 1 degree angle is going to hold exceptionally well, if the tenon fits well at the shoulder.


----------



## CL810

*Scotty *- Yeah they're straight. It just looks like the tenon is cut on an angle.


----------



## CL810

*Chris *- I think you're right. Barron did not glue his wedges and just relied on pressure. His reason was to allow for wood movement.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^hmmmm….interesting…


----------



## CL810

Yeah Red, I'd like to hear more of his thoughts on that as well. Depends on how you're able to orient the grain which way the movement "goes." But if movement is horizontal, does it affect the wedged tenon? If it's vertical is it enough to matter? Over time, could vertical movement push an unglued wedge out?


----------



## TerryDowning

OK, spent some time last night cleaning up the joints. I considered patching the gaps and splits but decided not to. As stef reminded me, it's a saw bench not a Stickley reproduction. These imperfections will serve as reminders on future projects to pay closer attention.

Bored the dog holes for the wagon this morning.

Here it is freshly bored and mostly done.









and the wedge powered vice holding a scrap in place. 









I need to make some adjustments to the wedge opening and perhaps make some more spacers. The vice is very secure. I was able to lift the saw bench from that scrap no movement at all. Now that I have built one of these I'm much more confident putting one on my upcoming workbench.









I also need to make some bench dogs still. I borrowed these from my Wolcraft folding bench. There is one other feature I'm going to add but I won't reveal until it is done and the project posted.


----------



## CL810

This is really a neat build Terry. When I was sawing some 13" wide 8/4 maple the other night I was thinking, "Wish I had Terry's saw bench."


----------



## TerryDowning

Thanks CL810.


----------



## shipwright

Looks great Terry. Glad you like the vice.
A chamfer around the top of the wedge will prevent the corners from chipping and mashing out.
...... but I'm sure you had that covered.


----------



## yuridichesky

Terry, it turned to be great bench!
You have the most portable saw/workbench ever!


----------



## TerryDowning

It could become a mini work bench easily enough with the addition of a face vise (I did think of that, but passed on it). The height (or lack there of) is the problem here I was uncomfortable just planing the top of this one. I may make some supports to fit in the gap between two sides, I could then use wedges to hold stock for edge planing.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Clayton- obviously I'm no expert….I can see the benchtop having seasonal movement. Mine does. I just don't see those through tenons or the wedges moving much.


----------



## DanKrager

I can see unglued wedges that big working loose from seasonal movement IF the grain of the wedge runs parallel (or nearly so) to one of the wedge's sloping planes. If the grain of the wedge is oriented so it is perpendicular to the sloping planes i.e. runs through the thin dimension of the wedge, then not so much if at all. I would see to the latter if it were my unglued wedge.
DanK


----------



## woodcox

With maple skirts on I'm at 29.5"w. Pine slab is only 22.5"w. Apron on will be at 31.5"w. When skirts went on I left 1/16" on the bottom and 1/8" on the top to be planed down. Yeah, if you get the chance don't do that. I've been flushing it for two nights now and still not done. Good for the marrow to have an iron performing well though.

















After 82 years about, its final job is a bench before pasture. About as far as I dare take that one.


----------



## terryR

Terry, love your sawbenches…may have to copy them sorta. That wedged wagon vise looks very useful…especially on a small portable work surface!

woodcox, your bench looks great! Thanks for sharing that old iron…it was lucky YOU found it, and gave it a wonderful last hoorah before going to pasture!


----------



## chrisstef

A big Stef Salute to that old workhorse of an iron.


----------



## bandit571

Got tired of the bench showing up bright white in photos, so









Had a small can of stain, and a foam brush. Should be a better backdrop for the camera-ooski?

Found a second use for a chuting board









Clamped it to the bench with a shelf I needed to clip the corners on. Saw a corner, rotate, and saw another. It even held the part while I cleaned up the saw marks, with a block plane. ( see what I might about that bright white benchtop?)


----------



## TerryDowning

Thanks Terry.

I haven't had a chance to use it much yet so I don't know how useful it will be. Mostly I did it to practice for my upcoming work bench. I'm too cheap to purchase vices so when I saw these by shipwright, I figured I'd give it a try.

It's just one saw bench with a split top. I may make another if this one proves useful.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Well done TD!

Great stuff Woodcox, nice seeing the respectable retirement too.


----------



## woodcox




----------



## Iguana

Woodcox, that iron is a thing of beauty. Put it in a shadowbox and give it an honored place on the wall of your shop. Long and faithful service…


----------



## CL810

*Question for the panel*.

I'm rethinking my decision on a wagon vise. I have a quick release face vise and I'm currently of the mind to install it instead of the wagon vise. I do not have the makings for the wagon vise.

Will the face vise perform the same functions as well and give me more clamping options? Are there racking concerns with the dog hole on the chop near the front of the bench? Good move?


----------



## woodcox

Mark^lol. Something proper, maybe farm it out to stumpy. I'm thinking it is flexing on this hard arse maple. On wispy full width ribbons there is a noticeable transperancy difference from middle to sides of a curl. I can't see a difference in a soft wood shaving. That plane does have a hollow behind the mouth though. IDK?

















Slab Is to length, flat, square and done now! Aprons in the rough. Rethinking on only having an apron on the twin screw side. I cut one for the other end too. Potential drawbacks or benefits to this? With or without? Aprons will be 6.5"ish tall.


----------



## woodcox

On my mind too CL810. I think it is gonna determine my lead and follower screw locations. Narrower work may require a rack stop of some sort. Ur chop going to be full top width? More clamping options, yes. How much vertical clamping at that end needed, not much. But nice if we need it.


----------



## john2005

Sorry boys, don't have an answer for you. I opted for the quick release face vise, but I don't have any experience with a wagon type. As many as are out there they surely have some merit.

I did make some progress on my top as well. As I said earlier, I have decided to make it as difficult as possible. I seem to do that a lot. Just trying to make everything a silk purse…










Kinda the basic idea there. The walnut will pop with some finish. Just imagine a huge dovetail on the ends to cover up all that unsighlyness.










And this is the basic secret to the look. Its all so I don't have a top that is a bunch of 3/4 boards on edge. Although, that would be much faster and more practical, but this baby's gotta make it to the moon!
Its also going to be around 28" wide. At least that is what I am shooting for. Why?, cause that would fit my style of work more. It will basically be an assembly table as well.


----------



## DanKrager

CL810, wood you consider a wedge wagon vise like Shipwright's? I'm gonna make a wedged wagon vise "strip" to bolt to my bench. It should make surface planing more straight forward, and will do better than what I have for smaller pieces.
DanK


----------



## Boatman53

PSA there are some great bench stops offered for sale over on another site here is the link.
http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=6553083&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1&PHPSESSID=
Thought you should know.
Jim


----------



## shipwright

Thanks for the mention Dan. A year in I am still impressed with the wagon vices. In fact I'm going to build a mini "Short Block V8" bench in my small shop in AZ this year. Since they are cheap and easy to build, anyone considering one should think about two as I have on my bench. It makes the whole thing more versatile.


----------



## RPhillips

Paul, I really thinking about adding one to my bench build. Since I'm not sure exactly how to go about making it, I'm just worried that I'll screw it up. I got the Sketch up drawing and I'm probably going to have a go at and see how it turns out.


----------



## shipwright

I'm always available for questions.
Feel free to ask.


----------



## Mosquito

I like my wagon vise, because it supports the board (depending on width) pretty much all the way along from dog to dog. With a face vise on the end, you'd have the distance between the face vise and the end of the bench unsupported. That could be an issue with thinner stock.

That said, I haven't used a face vise as a wagon vise before, so I don't have experience with that.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well Clayton, if I'm reading you right, your thinking about doing something like the setup on my bench….with a face vise as the end vise. If so, my 2 centavos:









Originally, I went this route on my bench out of frugality and familiarity. It's the face vise off my old bench too. Didn't cost me anything. Plus, I used that vise a lot on my old bench, and I couldn't imagine a bench without it. Now that I've worked with this setup for almost a year, I have no regrets. I like how it works. Ya'll have probably noticed in my pics that I use my end vise way more than my leg vise. I like how I can get perpendicular to the work piece, like this:









Does it rack some? yes. Does it affect its function as an end vise? Not really. It holds everything I've asked of it. Does it give you more clamping options? Definitely.

If I changed anything, I would get a quick release(which you already have), and I would consider routing a groove/recess on the underside of my bench so that I could raise the vise and reduce the racking. Neither are a big enough deal that I'm planning to remedy soon. 
Everybody has their own preferences and work habits, but if I switched to a wagon vise… I would actually feel limited. 
As with any advice on here, it's your bench brother. Bounce it around in your noodle and go with what feels right to you


----------



## Tugboater78

I spy my new plane! im still debating on what kinda end vice myself its kinda holding me back from building i think cause i need to know before i start gluing..

Maybe this?


----------



## Boatman53

I struggled with this as well. I did not want the overhang needed for a wagon vise, my bench is short just over 5'. I was planing on using the Wonder Dogs from Lee Valley. They are good but in use slow to adjust and a bit cumbersome. For clamping odd shapes they are great. 
I'm not sure how the inset vise works with thinner than 3/4" stock, if that doesn't matter then no worries. I ended up retrofitting a face vise, but had to drill through the upper streacher for the guide bars and screw, no big deal. I also like the ability clamp perpendicular to the bench. 
Jim


----------



## waho6o9

A pattern maker's vise is an option as well.


----------



## terryR

Lots of nice work, here! 

Red, I never noticed you have a simple face vice lined up with all those dog holes! Sure looks easier to retro-fit than a wagon vice. Hmmm, I will have to remember your set up when I'm ready to upgrade to a 2nd vice. Although, all the work required for the wagon vice is sexy IMO.


----------



## Airframer

Red - I have been looking for a spot to attach an end vise of some kind for the very reason you stated. I love my wagon vise and my leg vise but neither one allow me to get perpendicular to the work piece while it is clamped vertically which would be nice for cross cuts on smaller items and such.

It probably won't ever happen but it has been nagging me a bit lately.


----------



## JayT

Clayton, I've got a similar setup to Red's, only with an iron vise and like it very much.










The advantages for me:


 More clamping options, such as Red shows. I've used it quite a bit that way.
 Ability to clamp longer pieces. Since my bench is only 6' long, using a face vise this way in conjunction with the planing stops on the other endcap gives the ability to clamp boards up to nearly 7' long. Using a wagon vise, I would have been limited to 5-1/2' or less.

As you can see, I messed up a bit and should have mounted the vise farther forward, but a dog hole in the chop has taken care of that. Don't have any real racking issues with this style of vise.


----------



## Airframer

This is the area (circled in red) where I have been thinking of retrofitting a face vise into. This would give me the top three vise options in one bench (I think).










Any ideas on if this would work out or not? One possibility I had considered was to fill the tool well in front of the vise with more bench top… or just install the vise and call it a day.


----------



## yuridichesky

Given a choice either to work in the shop or to blog about the shop I choose first option. And since I have no new blog posts about workbench building process I'd like to share my progress here in brief.

Here it goes: little bench for tiny shop!

Front:









And back:









Never mentioned this before, but my shop is quite small balcony in our apartment, 8th floor of 10-floor building - nice view, btw , so I had to move whole thing into the living room to take the pictures.

Workbench is 41" long and 15-3/8" wide, height is 34-1/2".

Clamping facilities: wagon vise on the right (significantly rebuilt since I first blogged about it) and leg vise on the left - many thanks to Jim Ritter aka Boatsman53 for his chain vise, great idea and great product.

As you can see tool tray is still missing, but I'm working on it 

Actually I have couple more ideas besides tool tray, but tool tray is at the top of TODO list.

Still hope to write some number of blog entries about building process and some construction details, and as soon as tool tray ready will post a project about complete workbench.


----------



## RPhillips

That is a tiny bench, but awesome none the less. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## terryR

Yuri, love your lil bench! Looks like a tool that will serve you well for a long time…with or without the tool tray! LOL The feet protectors are a nice touch for the living room floor. Must keep wife happy at all costs! 

Eric, are you planning to fill in the tool tray in front of the 3rd vice? Heck, you build stuff so fast, you could certainly use more vices…or another bench.


----------



## Airframer

*Terry* - I had thought about it but am not sure if it would be necessary to do. I would only use that vise for a few situations that the leg or wagon vise just can't allow me to do.


----------



## Airframer

Another spot I had considered which might work out better is to mount it next to my wagon vise on the end.. but again it would be infront of the tool well. The tool well part doesn't bother me all that much as long as the hardware will mount correctly.


----------



## yuridichesky

*Rob*, *Terry* - thanks a lot! My workbench sits at the wall, so without tool tray I will use gap between benchtop and the wall to sweep to all the sawdust, shavings, pencils and other small objects… So tool tray must be built 

*Eric*, having two built-in vises plus moxon on-top vise seems to cover lots of possible clamping tasks. But maybe I say so just because I myself have no room for another vise


----------



## Airframer

I hear ya Yuri. It DOES cover nearly every clamping options but a couple. I have found the need to have a board clamped horizontally with the end hanging free of the bench for certain cuts and what not that I just cannot accomplish with my current vise setup. It really is my fault for not thinking of that originally but I think I may have found the spot to hang this vie on and it is simpler than I was making it.

I think I'll add a full length end vise on the leg vise end of the bench. That should give me coverage of just about any clamping senerio I ever encounter… I think.

What does the panel think?


----------



## Airframer

OK, well now you guys have me thinking and that is dangerous. You will have to excuse the crude MS Paint mockup but here is what I am thinking of doing.

The only real issue with having it on the leg vise end is making sure the edge of the vise is clear of the leg vise hand wheel for sawing purposes. I think (again.. thinking = dangerous) that I can get around that by over hanging that end of the vise and making it pull double duty as a crotch for the leg vise.

Like this…








Any feedback would be greatly appreciated before I start altering my bench lol.

Oh and Yuri… the placement of your leg vise allows you to do what I can't do with mine due to it's placement. If the clamped peice is shorter than the over hang on the end of my bench I have to get creatice on my saw bench to cut it but clamping small items to it is tricky and my miter box only allows me to cut items 3" long or bigger because of the adjustment gap in the middle.


----------



## TerryDowning

Speaking of wagon vices and wedge powered to boot. The principle reason I added a wedge poered wagon vice to this saw bench build was to practice for my upcoming bench. I wasn't sure if it would see much use. But I did use it this weekend to fine tune a set of winding sticks.

It worked great. Nice to plane while seated.


















I highly recommend the wedge powered wagon vice. You can't beat the price!!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Eric- I like the idea of another vise on that end….if it's done right. I wouldn't do the crochet if it were me. I'm thinking about taking mine off. My crochet gets in the way more than it is useful so far.


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## Airframer

The crotch is still an "up in the air" idea. I'm a righty so must my work on that vise would most often get done on the crotch end of it and am just worried about the leg vise being in the way of any sawing. I have about 12" of over hang from the edge of the leg vise to the end of the bench. Any ideas?


----------



## CL810

Thanks everyone for the comments. If I didn't have a quick release face vise already I think I'd look hard at the wedge wagon vise. However, i do, so I'm going that route.

My leg vise screw came today.










I purchased it from Evans Wooden Screw Co. .Rhett with Nice Ash Planes recently wrote a review of his. It looks great and the action is flawless.


----------



## shipwright

Thanks Terry. I'll take that as a compliment.
I was thinking when I first saw your saw bench that you could sit while planing …... comfort and ballast at the same time ….. can't beat that.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Very nice Clayton. That's gonna be sharp.

Also, I rationalized the my end vise by thinking I could always convert it to a wagon or something later (although more difficult). But now I have no intention.


----------



## CL810

*Yuri* that is one mighty fine bench!


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## yuridichesky

*Clayton*, thank you. The only issue I encounter so far is lack of workbench weight. Will probably bolt it to the wall or to the floor.

About your wooden screw: it's gonna be cool vise!


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## theoldfart

Clayton, I like that wood screw. let us know how the installation goes. I also use a face vise in the tail position and will do so on the new bench. At the woodworking school I go to I use a tail vise and I'm not finding any advantage to it. Given the additional installation work I'm sticking with my current setup.
Yuri, impressive bench!


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## yuridichesky

*Kevin*, thank you!


----------



## Boatman53

Yuri that is a nice little bench. You will be able to do a lot of work on that. You might consider a saw horse the same height as the bench for those occasions you need to support a longer project, if it will fit in the shop.
Jim


----------



## DanKrager

I like Yuri's bench too! It's beautiful. 
Airframer, rather than make the crochet permanent, just clamp one in the end vise. Then it won't get in the way when not needed. 
All this talk has me rethinking some of my bench. Since it's modular I don't have the concern about modifications. I'm gonna build a double moxon to be able to clamp vertically and horizontally, even at the same time if needed. It's gonna be a bulky attachment, and may likely find a home on one of the two bench extension carts. It will have alignment stops for mating parts too. The clamp bars will be large enough to be used as chisel guides, helpful I've found in maintaining a uniform base line even though it has been scribed.
DanK


----------



## yuridichesky

*Jim*, thank you once again. I have bunch of photos of chain mechanism installation and I will definitely write about it in my blog.

*Dan*, thanks a lot!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yuri, very nice bench build, it looks great and I'm sure works wonderfully. Well thought out, as it had to be for your space. Thanks for sharing.

Eric - what you thinking RE: the crochet? You want one or just wondering? They're typically just a bolt-on (mine is, too) and it's easily removed.

Mine has been on since day one, and I've not considered pulling it once. It's not flush with the benchtop, but down about 3/4". That little ledge has found all kinds of purpose, strange as it may seem. But is the crochet critical? Probably not at all.


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## Airframer

Smitty - My reasoning for the crotch is not that I want one (had considered one though) it's just that I was wanting to offset the end vise so that the edge would be clear of the leg vise on the neighboring face.

So I figured that since it would be over hanging there (right where a crotch would be) why not make use of it and add a crotch. Is any of this making sense lol? I know exactly what I mean in my head but when i try to explain this it seems to lose something in translation.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

>admittedly confused<

But that's not a new development.


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## terryR

Ahh…a crochet hook attached to the end vice? Hmmm…

attach with bolts…if you don't like, un-bolt it. LOL. But that overhang the end vice makes past the bench front looks in the way? I think you mentioned potentially using both together? So, the overhang. Maybe a full-on shoulder vise (L-shaped) at the corner with the tool tray???

Eric, I think you need another bench. LOL.


----------



## Airframer

OK, maybe this will help..

Lets pretend this piece of wood clamped to the end of my bench is the potential end vise (obviously there would be 2 jaws but we are just pretending here right?) As you can see if I was to take full advantage of the vise (and one of the reasons for installing it) and make an end cut in some wood I would hit my leg vise..










Now if I was to offset the vise I would clear the leg vise..










But now I have that overhang in the way so why not put it to work as a functional piece of the bench and add a crotch to it..

(extremely crude mockup.. visualization purposes only lol)..










Now obviously I could just cut from the other end of the vise but I am right handed and that is an awkward position to cut in as a righty..

Does that help?


----------



## yuridichesky

Thank you, *Smitty*. Space constraints that I have make me pack all the stuff as tight as I can, so next stop after the tool tray might be workbench cabinet just like yours.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"Given a choice either to work in the shop or to blog about the shop I choose first option." -Yuri

Me too. But the next best thing to woodworking is sharing it with others. Now we've got you hooked buddy


----------



## yuridichesky

Oh yes, I'm hooked. Totally. And it's good


----------



## AnthonyReed

That is a beauty Yuri.

AF do you despise cutting on the flat so much that you want to forgo a bench hook and instead install another vice for crosscutting?


----------



## Airframer

Honestly, I don't know. Most of this is just pondering some possibilities and the vise would have to be useful for more than just cross cutting.

As was pointed out earlier… I just happen to be thinking and that usually leads in a dangerous direction.


----------



## Mosquito

I frequently use holdfasts to hold a piece for cross cut, and then open my leg vise so I can have the saw go there. I've been happy with it so far. Otherwise I'll holdfast it off the end of the bench


----------



## CL810

Rough dry fit of the leg vise to set the nut. Gotta have little arrows to remember which end is up! :-0)


----------



## theoldfart

How big will the vise open to?


----------



## CL810

*Kevin*, in my case about 14". I'll be able to tell exactly when the nut is set. In comes down to how long of a screw you can put in. If it's leg vise you're installing, it should be an inch or so less than the distance between the legs.

Does that make sense?


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## theoldfart

Yes, you'd want to avoid hitting the back leg with the vise fully closed unless you bore a hole in the back leg.


----------



## yuridichesky

*Tony*, thanks a lot!

*Clayton*, just a reminder: every happy owner of pinless leg vise has to shoot "see my vise crashing beer can!" video, and though I didn't do it myself yet, but I have it in my TODO list


----------



## CL810

:-0)


----------



## terryR

Eric, have been pondering your potential vice set up all night for some weird reason? LOL. I do most crosscutting on the other end of my bench with holdfasts, since there's no hardware, yet.

Your crochet hook attached to a face vice looks cool and very unique! Part of me says Build It! But, The uniqueness bothers me, though, since we mostly use age old methods for clamping. I think I would vote for the vice positioned on the back of the bench, so ya still get some clearance for cutting right handed…Plus, it could still hold bench hooks if they span the tool well, or other gadgets like the leg vice.

I'm starting to picture my bench with a LN face vice on the right end, with a wedge powered wagon vice in the same spot…no banging of handles…

Clayton, that is so friggin' Beautiful! Your're working on a masterpiece…


----------



## Brit

Wrong thread. Doh!


----------



## woodcox

Sweet CL810! My front apron is on now. I should have waited to flush all the maple at the same time, hence the tape to minimize glue cleanup.









Going to add a couple 1/2" x 5" bolts for good measure.


----------



## Sylvain

removable crochet :
http://schoolofwood.com/node/72


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## BigRedKnothead

Woodcox- thanks for sharing your build with us. It's been fun to watch.

Sylvain- not a bad idea. I was just removing my crochet today. Gonna go without it for a while.


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## RPhillips

*Clayton* Looking good. That is how I want to make my leg vise. Although, I'll probably use that steel screw that I already have.

*Wookdcox* Keep it up, looks like you're almost there!


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## TerryDowning

Blog on my split top sawbench started. Some people had expressed interest

Nice lookin' benches woodcox and CL810

TerryR as for wedge powered wagon vices, I'm a fan!!


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## RPhillips

Terry, planning to use a wedge powered wagon vise on mine.


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## john2005

Clayton that vise looks pretty sweet. You're gonna have a nice bench when that thing is done.

You too Woodcox, lookin good!


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## BigRedKnothead

I feel so….so….crotchet-less.


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## Hammerthumb

Better than crotchless!


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## jmartel

Or is it?


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## BigRedKnothead

Hehehe. It seemed to get in the way more than it helped. I doubt I'll put it back on.


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## CL810

I must say I am pumped! About 5 weeks into this project and the base is assembled for dry fit.









Good thing I did a dry fit - side stretchers are just a bit long - stupid math stuff. I probably won't get to work on it this weekend, but Monday I'm back on it.


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## CL810

I have a question regarding the nut for the wood vise screw. Is there any reason not to cut it flush with the sides of the leg?


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## Boatman53

Cl810 I don't see why it can't be cut flush. It just needs some way to keep it from spinning. 
Actually there might be a reason not to now that I think about, if the hole ends up too close to the cut off end the nut might be more prone to splitting. Can you run a rivet down through the nut to help prevent it.
Jim


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## CL810

Jim, the nut will be recessed 1 3/8" in the leg and bolted in with 4 - 1/4" x 3" bolts.


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## theoldfart

Clayton, a big favor to ask! Close up pic of the leg vise area? and dimensions? When its convenient of course.
Thanks


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## BigRedKnothead

Clayton….deep, deep down I'm a little irritated that I might like your bench more than mine


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## john2005

I'm just impressed at how quickly you've been motoring along. Nice work!


----------



## lysdexic

Clayton - great progress dude. Looks perfect.


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## CL810

Thanks guys.

*Red* if it'll help I can send you a pic of one the things I screwed up! 

*Kevin*, I'll get that done later today.


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## yuridichesky

About 5 weeks into this project and the base is assembled for dry fit.

Black magic, definitely. And I like it!


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## terryR

Looks awesome, Clayton! That is one FINE bench coming together.


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## BigRedKnothead

I hear ya Clayton. There is not a piece I've made where I couldn't point out the things I screwed up on. I try to remember what this wise old feller said:

"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence." 
-Vince Lombardi


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## DanKrager

Nice quote, BRK. Last year I wrote a long post in my blog about "Endless Improvement Folly" and I added the quote to the end. Thanks for sharing.
http://kragerwoodworking.weebly.com/1/archives/04-2012/1.html
DanK


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## RPhillips

I'm so stuck in a stasis…

I'm thinking about trashing the wood that I have and getting something better to build my bench with. I have those large oak timbers that I really have no good way to cut, and they probably need to be dried too. The wood that I have for my legs is OK I guess, but I would like to use some better wood on those too. The epoxy is not working out like I would have liked. They still feel hollow due to the cracks/checking.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sometimes a bench is just a place you want to be.

English walnuts off the tree in front of my shop. Dad started it from seed, planted here 6" tall about five years ago. First year it produced.










About 2lbs shelled!


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## terryR

Awesome, Smitty, nothing like reaping the fruits from your own land! 

Got a question for you real builders…

I want another sturdy work surface in the shop…probably for a sharpening station? We'll see. NOT a full on bench, since it won't have any vices (yet), but something as strong as a bench. Been considering a small version of the 24-Hour Workbench in Schwarz's maroon book, which uses 4-layers of 3/4" birch ply to create the top. But, he uses metal brackets to secure that top to the legs…no way I'm doing that.

Can I mortice into 4-layers of birch ply to attach the legs with tenons? Never seen that done. I could add a skirt around the ply, as they did in the book, but Chris recommends bypassing this if possible, due to the hassle. But, a 3×3" skirt would provide some wood for the M/T joint? Wouldn't it? Plus, give me a chance to add dovetails for ya'll to laugh at. LOL

Anybody like birch ply for a top? Or other random thoughts?


----------



## MactheKnife

TerryR,
I used Beech Ply for my whole bench, mainly because its what I had available (and it was free!).
I've been using it for joinery and other tasks and its been perfect for what I need it for.
I used bolts to fasten the top and the other parts of the bench as I wanted to be able to knock it down fully from time to time. Its never had any movement in it at all. The bolts terminate in large wells made with a 50mm forstner bit, a large washer and nut provide a firm anchor point for the bolt.


----------



## CL810

Kevin, the chop is 30" x 9" x 2.5". The leg is 5" wide, 4.5" thick and 30" tall at the tenon shoulders. Holes for vise screw are 2.5". Nut for screw is 4" high, 2" thick.










I took this pic when I was setting the nut.


----------



## theoldfart

Clayton, thanks. My setup will be identical. I need to finish the granddaughter project first. Pics on state of the shop.
BTW how tall are you? 30" plus a 4" top!


----------



## mochoa

Woodcox, that bench is friggin monolithic, really nice! Very unique design too.

Clayton the bench is looking great. I really like that wooden screw, nicely turned hub.

Terry I've been thinking the same thing. I need to upgrade some of my crappyer work surfaces. Here are a couple of the ideas I as thinking of. 
Paul Sellers sharpening station:









Mathias Wandel's storage bench:


----------



## terryR

Thanks, guys.

Yeah, Maur, that's sorta my plan. Upgrade the 2×4 work tables I have now with something a bit nicer. That Paul Sellers table above looks clean. Actually, that painted top screams laminated ply to me!  Oh, now I see a furniture piece in the background with the same color ?primer on it. Maybe he's using a solid wood door or 2 on the bench? Will reaserch Mr Sellers' offerings…

Love the bench by Mathias, but I've never made drawers! Maybe, next year? LOL

So, in theory, I could laminate Birch ply for legs, stetchers, etc. (covering the end grain) Then M/T them together? Sounds expensive, but probably higher grade material than borg pine?


----------



## mochoa

Terry I'm with you but I'm trying to upgrade my 2×4 tables to 2×6 tables done right. Like you see on PS bench, its a mazing how much better it looks when you plane it down and take off the rounded corners. I hit the jackpot the other day, I found 3 2×6' that are completely quarter sawn with no knots, that might make a good top for the "counter" I want to make. (I'm in a pine phase these days)

He uses a solid core door and some gray paint, benjamin more something or other, I need to find the blog post where he describes it. I think he even sands between coats and applys wax, at least on his tool cabinets which is why they look so nice.

If you look at Mathias' site he has plans for just the bench, the drawers are added later. With beefier legs and a bigger apron its pretty much an English style workbench like the one you have now.


----------



## mochoa

Here is PS' painting method: http://paulsellers.com/2012/08/questions-answered-painting-my-projects/

His sharpening bench blog: http://paulsellers.com/2013/09/woodworking-rabbit-trails/


----------



## mochoa

Keeping the subject on Home Depot construction grade lumber, I found where they sell Cedar 4×4x8's each for $16. You could get 2 legs out of each. They are listed as "Green" and I know that Cedar can be a little light. The 2×6's aren't bad either. I'm thinking of making a beefy patio table out of this stuff. 









They would save on the work of jointing and laminating, might be good for some beefy looking secondary benches.

Eric, is that what you used for your bench legs? How are they working out?


----------



## Airframer

No I used the construction grade stuff by the twobafours. The looked like the other stud lumber but were cedar. So far they are doing great! My one and only complaint is that they can ding and dent easily but they are stable and look good too.

That said mine were still pretty green when I bought them and were noticeably wet to the touch when cut and planed. Glued them up anyway and so far no issues.


----------



## terryR

Mauricio, thanks for the links!

I've been eyeballing some ancient wooden doors at a Trading Post on the way to town…may have to look closer!

Western Cedar, huh? I have some reclaimed flooring from the stuff…5/8" thick…sorta soft, IMO. And, I'm not sure OUR HomeD stocks that stuff in the country. But, I have 100+ cedar trees and a chainsaw! LOL.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Terry, are you able to get southern yellow pine where your at? That would laminate into some great legs. And drawers are nothing to be afraid of. Just think of them as boxes.

Rob- sorry about the standstill. Would it be worth it to have a cabinet shop or someone rip them for you rather than start with new material? Checks and such aren't a big deal in the legs. Makes for a rustic bench. But its yours, gotta go with what you'll be happy with.


----------



## terryR

Red, yep, plenty of good pine here! I was looking for the easy way out with a table top…hence the ply ideas. But, 5 years from now, how do ya flatten a ply bench top? I already know how to flatten a laminated pine top with small heft and hubris (no.7), so I've already talked myself OUT of the birch ply…

...gonna build a small Holtzapffel ( holds awful?) bench about 2×4 feet footprint. maybe a bit larger since I'm not tied to the 4×8 sheet goods? No vices…for now! LOL Just a small tank-like work surface with low stretchers.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Would it be worth it to glue some nice syp 2×12s one edge? Like I did on my joinery bench. A lot quicker than laminating. Then you could flatten it.


----------



## mochoa

Thats what I was thinking of doing with my secoundary (jonery, carving, storage) bench. I'm thinking of laminating 2×6's on edge. Like I mentioned earlier I picked through the stack of pine at HD and found 3 (need a couple more) fully quartersawn boards so that is most of what I need. I need to find 2 more like that and I'll be in business.

I found a sweet deal on some old Kitchen cabinets I'm going to use as the base.


----------



## terryR

That looks a lot quicker, Red! Thanks.

I know where to grab some 2"+ thick air dried walnut…but my wife is returning from vacation today and would kill me if she saw me hacking into our barn's loft. LOL

Congrats on the cabinet find, Maur!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

ooooohhhh. Look at this cool way you could ensure it stays flat


----------



## Tugboater78

Ohh that would be a cool way to do it for sure..


----------



## mochoa

How would you cut that? To big to cut on a Table saw unless you cut each board individually, you could use a straight edge and a DT router bit or circular saw. Or saw it by hand of course. I want one of those japanese panel saws.


----------



## widdle

This will hog out some material..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

There's several ways to do it. With my hybrid ways, I would laminate the whole top and use one of these. 









Helps if you have a lectric router though. It's difficult to spin them fast enough by hand.


----------



## Airframer

Like this only larger scale?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Yup.


----------



## mochoa

Widdle, that looks like it could do some damage!

I may try to do this joint. I would probably opt for the circular saw and straight edge. Then clean it out with the circs and chisel.

The dado might be two wide for a router plane. Might have to do the 2×4 and chisel Paul Sellers method.


----------



## Airframer

I think you could chisel the angles to depth creating a peak in the center and just scrub out the waste.. I think.. I want to try it now lol.


----------



## mochoa

A side rabbet plane would be useful as well if you go that route. ;-)


----------



## widdle

The dado saw was bit of a joke mauricio, although its a great tool…i've done like af, but i sandwich the saw between two rips…obviously ideally we'd want the whole length of the joint tight tight..i would think a few inches on either end would lock it in good.. can probably add a bigger base to either a power or hand router to deal with the width of the groove..


----------



## merrill77

I think you'd be hard-pressed to get that joint to fit tight enough to do the job and still be able to assemble without a sledge hammer. Maybe try a tapered sliding dovetail? It would not take much taper to do the job, but this does add another level of complexity in cutting the joint. I did a coffee table recently that used sliding dovetails and it was challenging to get a good fit. I'll try the tapered version, next time.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Use this,










To get this,










Sorry, couldn't resist…


----------



## mochoa




----------



## DanKrager

I just assembled two outdoor benches using this dovetail batten technique, shown on the handplane thread. Have used it for years and have so far used only electrons on the female part. A router dado jig is a natural to cut the female part. It can be several inches wide, wider with a bigger router base. 
The male part is easily done with a power saw at angle or simply planed to shape. 
The guided handsaw and router plane look like a good option if you don't have the electron obliterators.
I want to affirm the notion of how effective the taper is. Almost any reasonable taper will work. I generally fit the male part to the female part. (easy Stef) Since, in this application, the male batten is a flat board, it would be easy to plane it to fit. 
DanK


----------



## DanKrager

I wondered where you were, Smitty.

Gotta go. Harvested 20 (yes twenty) 15' x 18"D (and up) osage orange trees from an ancient hedge row that was being trashed. Pictures pending.
DanK


----------



## john2005

Dang Smitty, thats cool.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I wish I would have thought of that sliding dovetail joint when i built my joinery bench…I might have used it. The oak I used for the top had been dried for like 10 years, so I'm hoping I don't have any problems with it staying flat.

Finally got around to "signing" my roubo. Just used my cheezy brand and a 2013 quarter. 









Used, used…this bench gets used. Working on a hand saw till.


----------



## mochoa

Nice, I like the idea of the quarter to date it.


----------



## RPhillips

Good idea! I'm going to put a quarter on it from each year that i have worked on it.


----------



## CL810

I've joined the Gramercy holdfast fan club. Drilled a .75" test hole in my 3.75" bench top. Perfect!


----------



## Airframer

Throw some leather on the face of those things and that piece of wood ain't moving ;-)


----------



## lysdexic

If I put a quarter in mine that will mean it be worth 50 cents. I'm doing it!


----------



## CL810

Lys your bench deserves a gold coin.


----------



## merrill77

+1 on adding a leather pad to the holdfasts - huge improvement!


----------



## CL810

After weeks of burning electrons it was nice to earn a galoot point or two today. Cut top to length. I really like the 8 ppi xcut D7. I need to sharpen it but I have too many boards to cut! ;-)









I'm doing wedged tenons using David Barron's method. His approach is to create the mortises in the bench top by cutting three 1" boards. For the back tenon you cut the board at the same angle of the wedge. This picture is taken from behind the front leg vise leg; hence the nut.









It needs to be spot on. Since you only get one chance with this cut, I set up a guide.









The middle board is simply straight through. The third board is cut at the same angle of the dovetail tenon. This picture is taken from the front of the bench.


----------



## DanKrager

Oh wow, Cl810.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Lookin' good Clayton. Stretchers chamfered already! And a major Gallootness factor too.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Cl8ton - Amazing quality of work there.

Dan, I know how I'll make that 'housed tongue and groove dovetail' with The Beast. It's on my to-do list, officially. Thanks for the challenge!


----------



## widdle

very nice clayton…goin big..


----------



## terryR

Nice work, Clayton! Thanks for the lessons…wow, that joint is more complex than I realized. Gonna be gorgeous, though!!!


----------



## theoldfart

Clayton, I am going to post I copy of that leg/vise joint in my shop as motivation to get mine done. Pics looks good enough for Lost Art Press!


----------



## CL810

Thanks guys. I think my iPhone must take really incredible pics - and remember, they're just the ones I want you to see. lol.


----------



## john2005

Thats lookin good Clayton, real good!


----------



## chrisstef

Cl810 - if youre insinuating them you have other, "better", pics that youre not showing us, you can keep the naked bondo pose.

Bench is lookin hoss.


----------



## CL810

Dry fit looks good. Final glue up of top probably this weekend.










These wedges are like a pea & shell game - one minute they fit great, the next minute not so great. Maybe I should have paid more attention in HS geometry.


----------



## Airframer

Just glue them up, pound them in and you won't notice a thing once they are cut flush. Either way those legs aren't going to move!


----------



## theoldfart

Clayton, the wedges didn't take HS geometry either! Do what Eric said, bang away. It's looking fine, so fine.


----------



## RPhillips

looking good Clayton!


----------



## lysdexic

Thru tenons are hoss. The dogs bullocks.

Getting close CL810! I am excited for ya.

Bottom shelf?


----------



## waho6o9

+1 for gluing and pounding them, looking great CL810!


----------



## Tag84

I just saw this post, and happen to be building one as well  
My first bench, that i started 2 weeks ago.
Made from oak and hardwood, i took the hardwood out of a dumpster.
Still needs a wagon vise, 2 sidecaps and a standard front vice.
Also i routed out a section on the crossbeam for the deadman.
Measurements; L 8 foot x W 27'' x H 35.4''.

Beautiful bench by the way CL810!


----------



## waho6o9

Solid looking bench Thomas, looking forward to the hardware
addition.


----------



## CL810

*Lys*, bottom shelf will be last. My plan is to learn how to do T & G with the 45. It may take a while before the shelf is done! lol

*Thomas*, 2 weeks! Have you taken breaks for sleep or eating? . The bench looks great!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thomas- Welcome to our crazy bench forum. Well done so far!

Clayton- whatever.


----------



## lysdexic

T&G with the #45 would be superb and fitting. I just did half laps with a rabbet plane.


----------



## CL810

Red - lol!


----------



## terryR

Nice bench, Thomas. 2 weeks, wow!

Clayton, I don't think paying attention in HS would help ya here. I have a friggin minor in Math, but couldn't pull off what you just did! LOL.

I was also thinking of a t&g lower shelf…forgot about ScottyB's half laps, though. Off to read blogs…


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, T&G will hold things flatter. And doing T&G with the 45/405 is quite easy.


----------



## terryR

Hmmm, Thanks, Kevin, I sure didn't think of how flat the shelf would be when completed. And playing with the 45 would be a nice relief from all the pink fluffy insulation I've been stapling up!


----------



## DaddyZ

Nice Couple benches there CL810 & Tag84 !!!


----------



## yuridichesky

Clayton, your bench is going to be so cool.

Thomas, even without vises your workbench looks just great.

You both guys are so fast in building, what's the secret?


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, did you say you were ……..the pink stuff? Those poor chickens!
On the t&g don't cross cut your slats to size. First cut the tongue making sure its centered and hold the fence tight to the face. Then flip and do the groove. I'll set the groove up on a small test piece of the same thickness and make sure that when mated the surface is flush across both pieces. Hope this helps.


----------



## TerryDowning

Nice benches Clayton and Thomas.

Clayton for an added touch on the T&G you could always go for the bead board effect. I mean you have a 45 and it's out. Just a thought.


----------



## TerryDowning

Thomas, don't forget to add the smackdown to posted project when you're finished so it will show up in this list.


----------



## lysdexic

Here you go terryR -


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Awwww….for cryin' out loud!


----------



## theoldfart

Scotty, nice clean half laps!


----------



## Airframer

I'm not even acknowledging rabbets at this time.. They done me wrong.. done me wrong I say!


----------



## CL810

ScottyB - I never get tired of looking at your bench!


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Scotty! Awesome…Now, I'll have a hard time deciding between t&g or ships laps.

Thanks, Kevin, I think I understand? Don't worry…no chickens harmed. LOL. Hey, we got 3 pigs last night…turning into a friggin farm!


----------



## Tag84

Thanks guys!, about 2 weeks have my sleepingbag next to it, a small furnice and espresso machine haha .
In my case i don't have any other obligations, and i do work for long hours sometimes. Usually about 8-10 hours a day, i just enjoy it. I do want to keep a little pace, because i have commisions waiting. This one also hasn't got the most complex joints like the beautiful ones above, it would take alot more time.
And, for the mortises i've got a machine, that goes all the way trough the legs in one time.
That takes about 30 minutes per mortise.


----------



## mochoa

Half lap and bead here. I realize I should have put the bead on the other side of the joint.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I just left gaps between the boards on my lower shelf. The oak 1×6's weren't lacking for strength. I figure the sawdust would fall between. That hasn't really worked out.

Clayton- glad you get my humor. Makes me long for a benchfest. We could make a mean bench together


----------



## Airframer

If we could swing the bench fest in the PNW I would be all kinds of down for that!


----------



## Tugboater78

a small step forward

this came in yesterday from LV


----------



## theoldfart

Seems like Justin's a happy man! Looking forward to your evaluation.


----------



## mochoa

Nice Justin. I need to get me some of those Narex to upgrade my heavy work chisels (blue handled HD chisels). Those would look better in the cabinet.


----------



## mochoa

You could replace the T handle with a hand wheel on that LV screw if you really wanted to pimp it out. The hand wheels are actually pretty cheap.


----------



## woodcox

^hand wheels you say? You must divulge your source please.


----------



## CL810

*Red* you name the date & place and I'll be there. I don't know why, but I like building them. Before I took up woodworking I probably made 5 or 6 benches for mechanical and plumbing type work.


----------



## Tugboater78

i was thinking i may make a wheel at some point. At the moment I wuld be happy to put some of my bench together though. Been thinking how to make a strong wooden wheel, not sure if it is even possible.. but i will keep thinking on it.

at the moment i have 3-4 projects on paper/SU/head that i need to get out of the way. tomorrow i get shop time so we shall see what happens.

Winter is setting in and the shop is gonna be cold so not sure what i will do about glueups..maybe cut my legs off below the knee and do them in my basement.


----------



## richardwootton

Oh my GOD! I finally reached the end! I feel like I just read a Russian novel, but with more discussion about lab flappin'. I'll be posting pictures of my very slow bench build soon enough.

Tugboater, PM Airframer, he posted a link to a steel wheel that you can bore the hole out yourself and I want to say it was like 20 bucks or so. It looked pretty sweet, almost like bench crafted stuff just without the pretentious shine.


----------



## Airframer

Yep, Got mine from Reid Industrial Supply. I think MC sells them too.

I got the 8" for my leg vise http://www.reidsupply.com/sku/BSW-8/

And the 5" for the wagon vise http://www.reidsupply.com/sku/BSW-5/

I also got this drill bit set from HF to drill the hole with http://www.harborfreight.com/8-piece-silver-and-deming-drill-bit-set-527.html

Just start the hole small and move up in sizes slowly while using copious amounts of oil as lubricant and it is pretty straight forward.


----------



## Airframer

You COULD make a wooden wheel.. did so on my Moxon..


----------



## terryR

Eric, those wooden wheels are the bees knees! Did you blog the build? (he asked hopingly)


----------



## Airframer

I did.. sorta. I briefly touched on the build here http://lumberjocks.com/Airframer/blog/34701


----------



## donwilwol

You COULD make a wooden wheel

friggin guys like a Henry Disston and James Krenov rolled into one!!


----------



## terryR

Holy crap, you cut the 1" acme rod and made a tap? You still got it laying around? LOL


----------



## Airframer

I do!  You never know when you might need another 1" acme hole tapped right?


----------



## john2005

I was just cruisin for tips on my bench build and hoping to show off my barely intermediate woodworking skills. Little did I know I was following the thread with another LJer that had actually successfully reinvented the wheel. Quite tastefully I might add. Thats pretty cool Eric, pretty cool.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

You rascals. I've been kicking around changing my to a wheel as well. I'd like it to be 10" or so. 
And then I would be tempted to retrofit a chain or St. Peters cross setup on my leg vise. Darn you

Clayton- I love building them too. If I get a bigger shop one day, I'll build several more. Since I build my roubo I've been approached about build a bench for someone more than once. But I just feel people should build their own bench. I feel like I would be robbing them of that experience.


----------



## Tugboater78

those Narex will be my nice chisels and my dewalts will be used for rough work. Is all i can afford atm, though when i get around to buying mortice chisels i will probably go with LN.


----------



## woodcox

"Look what I can do."(SNL)









Planer sled,I got a little carried away with the hot glue.









Left side and front aprons on now. 3/4 left apron looks too skimpy. I better decide on it before I mount my front vise and chop.








I also put on a short rear apron to have better purchase for the inner vise chop.









Thanks for the links! Maybe hand wheels in the future. I will have deal with the release though. Doable but, accuracy needed.









At a standstill until my covers show up from LV. Prolly a good thing, need to think a lil soon about vise layout, and family time has been short lately I've been told.


----------



## CL810

"And what did you learn today?"

I learned to always mark which side of a 7' board gets the glue.

Dadnabbit!!!


----------



## Tugboater78

C o w ei ei o


----------



## Boatman53

I had that same thought Justin.
Jim


----------



## richardwootton

Even though my workbench won't hold a candle to all the work/art pieces that have been displayed on this epic thread, I'm going to go ahead and start documenting my build.

I started out going the Paul Sellers tubafore route, so I went to the big blue box store, bought a bunch of SPF, and got to work to get them laminated. After I ripped off the rounded edges and planed the twist out of them I got them glued up. I also realized I don't have any where near enough friggin' clamps!









And, as everyone can see, my "workshop" is what others might refer to as a "covered carport" but those people are totally misinformed!

After the glue had dried and the excess had been scraped away I got to work getting this thing flat.

















And then, I started thinking that this wood is crazy soft! It's like building my bench out of balsa. That's when I decided to go pick up several (I think 11) reclaimed 4×4s, I was under the impression that they were all oak and the rest are an unknown hardwood. I'm thinking some are poplar, some might be soft maple, and then oak. These bad boys are really dirty and a few have some pretty significant bow and some twist. So I have my work cut out for me getting all of them good and square. I'm definitely going to earn my galoot points on this project. 









I'll keep you guys posted on how this thing is coming along. By the way, I'm doing this using only hand tools, so hopefully I'll be rockin' those popeye guns when it's all said and done . . .


----------



## richardwootton

And of course, all of the freaking pictures are sideways.


----------



## Airframer

Hell yeah! That's what I am talking about. Gonna be a sweet bench once you get done.

The other top could be a joinery bench? Hate to see it go to waste.


----------



## Airframer

Well, at least there are pictures lol… seems those are rare around here today


----------



## richardwootton

AF, that's exactly what I was thinking as well, I'll definitely put it to use, I just need to figure out what. I could use it to make a couple saw benches, but I might want to go the hardwood route on those too.


----------



## richardwootton

I want to see some updates on the other "reclaimed" benches!


----------



## Airframer

*I want to see some updates on the other "reclaimed" benches!*

Go call! Stef.. Kevin.. you guys have been officially called out..

And while dimes are dropping.. Mos, your time limit on the "There is no finish on my bench so it isn't finished yet" excuse is nearly up. I expect a bondo pose before the year is up *tick tock tick tock…


----------



## Tugboater78

My reclaimed lumber bench has its stock stickered in my shop waiting for me to have time to screw with it…

Hopefully the week of thanksgiving I can do a glue up? It would be nice to make some progress…


----------



## richardwootton

I'm off for an entire month from mid December to mid January and I'm hoping the weather is decent enough to really crank out some good work. In the meantime it's just nights and weekends.

On a total side note; who here uses a worksharp or something related? Sharpening as often as I do has started getting old . . .


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, granddaughter project almost done. Back on the bench December 11'th


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Richard- I don't use a worksharp, but I know a lot of folks here do. I use hollow grinds, microbevels, strops, and various other strategies to expedite sharpening.


----------



## Boatman53

I recently got a Tormek. I like it so far, been sharpening everything in sight.
Jim


----------



## terryR

Richard, sorry to hear you didn't like pine for benchtop…looks like a lot of work you put in! I sure wish AR were closer to AL, so I could drive over and buy that pine from you.  Definitely use it for some kind of work surface! I bought 2×10's when I built mine, then ripped them to 3 1/8" width, and stacked them on edge for glue up…

(photo for Eric) 









Yep, I can carve my name in the top with a fingernail, but I never worry about the bench damaging a $100 chisel after a 20 minute sharpening session! LOL

Where in the world do you guys find these 4×4" reclaimed lumber? Construction sites? Dumpster? I've got tons of 90 year old air dried walnut and white oak…but it's nailed together in the form of a barn, and wifey won't let me touch it!

Hmmmm…there's another barn 1/2 mile away…


----------



## bandit571

Somewhere, under all this stuff, there IS a bench









It WAS a bit easier to see when a table was on it, though









Clamped a jig on it to cut some curves, too









and even a miter saw was clamped to the bench









Might be getting SOME use out of a $7 work bench???


----------



## chrisstef

Ive actually been thinking a lot about my bench lately. Ive got a couple of sections of the countertops sitting on the timbers. Ive come to a conclusion that using 5" thick timbers is slightly retarded and just too heavy for me to handle safely. Im going to resaw them down to 2.5" for the bench top and book match them. Im getting closer and closer to completing the countertop job and my mind is wandering back to the bench quite a bit. I got a real hankering to do some actual joinery work.


----------



## theoldfart

vertical grain on the resaw?


----------



## chrisstef

And you know this man!

A lil refresher:


----------



## theoldfart

Good, we've both been called out and not so subtly diised by the youngsters. One of us has to deliver!


----------



## terryR

Ahhh…Stef AND Red changed their avatars. No wonder the whole site was messed up the past day…


----------



## CL810

End caps are next order of business but this day is done.


----------



## theoldfart

Magnificent Andy
Edit, thanks for rotating the pic, laptop hard to hold sideways ;0)


----------



## richardwootton

CL810, that's looking stellar! I think I'm going to be doing the through tenon dovetail thing on my bench as well.

Stef, that vertical grain is so damn sexy! Just a quick question; are you ripping the timbers to 2.5 inches just to reduce waste instead of going with something like 3" after getting everything cleaned and squared up?

Terry, right now I've got the old top on top of two beefy saw horses to use as my bench to build my bench, but if I don't come up with a good use for it after I'm done with my bench you're welcome to it. Think it'll fit in a flat rate box? Your bench is very, very similar to my original design, big a$$ apron with dog holes instead of the sliding deadman, the tool well on the back, and all! I have revamped my design almost entirely now though.

I've been getting some of those 4×4s cleaned up and one of the oak boards is sawn dead on the quarter! It's a think of sheer beauty! Pics to come when I'm at my lap top.


----------



## woodcox

I need a little help from twin screw owners. I got my screws off eBay and have since cleaned and repainted them. Upon reassembly I may have put these washers out of place. Do they go here or betwixt the thrust plates and sprockets? Seems like they should act as thrust washers for the sprockets. They are not in or mentioned in the downloaded install destructions. Help is much appreciated


----------



## Boatman53

I think that washer would serve no purpose where it is. I don't have a twin screw and can't see the rest of the parts but it just doesn't look right there.
Jim


----------



## donwilwol

I've been screwed on ebay to. No pictures? Always take pictures before and during disassembly. Its not just for blogging, its for reassembly as well.


----------



## woodcox

I've been googling images and am seeing them where I have them now. The pressure and friction is taking place on the otherside at the sprocket and thrust plate. I would think they should put something between them like a bearing or thrust washer. Or would it hamper?That one is definately not big enough. It prolly goes where it's at. Purpose? IDK?


----------



## chrisstef

Richard - ive got 5.5" square timbers as they sit so i figure if i rip em down the middle ive got little minimal planing to do. Its mostly for reducing weight but id also save 2 timbers in the process. It would allow me for plenty of extra stock for other features like a bottom shelf, chop, breadboard end, etc if i choose to add em on. Im also a little concerned about using holdfasts in a bench that thick. Theyd need to be custom and looong. Then again if i bring em to 3" id have extra stick too but couldnt bookmatch em. Is 3" better than 2.5"?


----------



## donwilwol

2.5 is perfect I would say. 3" is good to, but i'd suggest splitting them down the middle.


----------



## DanKrager

Stef, I can see it both ways, 2 1/2 or 3. I like the middle.
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Stef- I'd have a hard time not going with solid 5 1/2" legs. But, then again, I'm probably a lot stronger than you are…..lol


----------



## theoldfart

I feel leg impaired at 5 1/8"


----------



## chrisstef

Not to worry Red the legs arent gonna change. Theyll stay at 5". Them lanky string beans got nothin on these guns. Turbo and diesel still need a good foundation to good solid against.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Doh….better git my facts straight before I trash talk. I see, your just talkin about how your gonna do the top.

I'm always gonna vote for thicker. You can always round up more wood for the lower shelf etc. Maybe an accent wood.


----------



## richardwootton

Red, don't let Brandon here you talking about that accent wood. He might start think old growth and purple heart and go into a damn frenzy!

Stef, I was asking purely out of curiosity, and 2.5 will work great with some gramercy HFs. I'm using 4×4s because that's what I got, so after milling I'll fall into the 3.5" range and will probably have a challenge finding hold fasts the right length for that ish! Maybe I can find a good black smith?


----------



## Tugboater78

my top will be roughly 3", leg stock at the moment is, give or take, 5 3/4 so will probably end up being around 5 1/4 after taking it down. Off to work again in the morning till friday, so it will all have to wait another day. Spent today moving some of my stuff into my basement so i can do the top glueup when i get home, in case the temp drops in the 30s or 40s again.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I got rid of my two tone crochet after Brandon mocked me daily an nightly

My top is a good 4" thick. The gramercy holdfasts work fine as long as you ream out/open up the holes from the bottom side.


----------



## mochoa

Stef, how long will your bench be? 2.5" won't look right on a 8' bench. I'd go at least 3", can you scam another post from your boss?


----------



## chrisstef

I think the bench is something in the market of 6' long. I cant remember honestly. The balance of the posts are long gone now so what I gots is what I gots. I can certainly manage 3" out of them if I need to. It should leave me with 5 full length 8/4 pieces.

I also want to add that im just talking about this, don't expect any real action to happen any time soon lol. Ive still got kitchen countertops to finish and install, a ceramic tile floor to rip out, a new floor to go in, 3 more doors to paint, 120' of trim to paint, new ceiling trim in 2 rooms, some wall papering, and a 15 month old maniac to take care of. Geez that feels like a lot.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ So why you jaw-jackin' on LJs when you should be working down that list??


----------



## chrisstef

Lol Smity. When I actually have a coherent thought pass through my brain I feel as if I need to spit it out because its that rare of an occasion. I been on the grind around the house. I think ive put in at least an hour or 2 a night/day every day since the first week of September. Maybe another 2 months of this and ill have that list whittled down pretty good.

So when ya think youll have the countertops done?

Gahhhh!!!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's the way it works. Get something in work that's fun and the world is a wonderful place. As soon as that fun work requires status, however…


----------



## john2005

Red, what's this "reaming out the bottom side bussiness"? Not pokin at your Stef style talk, I just want to know as holdfast are in my near future and would like to know what I am up against. For what its worth, my top will be a frogs hair under 3.75". Its 3.75" now but I still need to flatten it.

And what's wrong with a little accent wood?


----------



## AnthonyReed

I am a week back on this thread….

Glad you decided against ply Terry.

Clayton you've done fantastic work. Fantastic man.

"You COULD make a wooden wheel
friggin guys like a Henry Disston and James Krenov rolled into one!!" - I love that Yoda gets a little taste of the medicine he dishes on a daily basis.

"...I'm probably a lot stronger than you are…" & "So why you jaw-jackin' on LJs when you should be working down that list??" - Still no slack afforded, nice work boys!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

John- the joking about accent woods goes way back in the forum when we gave LJ Brandon a hard time because strong contrasting woods drove him nuts. Obviously, I love to contrast woods. Except purpleheart. Not a fan of that stuff.

"reaming out the holes"- I'm pretty sure it's suggested by Joel at TFWW. Basically my dog holes are drilled at 3/4". Then I took a unibit on the underside of my bench and opened them up to about 1-1/4" wide. I drilled up about 1" from the bottom. Making the hole 3" deep as far as the holdfast is concerned. The unibit is just one way to do this.

Ya pickin up what I'm puttin down? Smellin what I'm steppin in?;-)


----------



## john2005

Got the method. Do they not hold as well in a thicker top? Reamin them out is not a big deal, I am just not sure I understand the why.
Other than that, I am "smellin what you're puttin down"...


----------



## kiyoshigawa

While it's not a full-size workbench, I recently finished my Saw bench, and wrote a few blog posts on it. Hopefully it fits in with this thread. If I made it a bit longer, I would do a bondo pose on it, but I don't think I'd fit.










And here's the blog posts about building it for those who are interested:

http://lumberjocks.com/kiyoshigawa/blog/38325

http://lumberjocks.com/kiyoshigawa/blog/38427

http://lumberjocks.com/kiyoshigawa/blog/38608


----------



## yuridichesky

Tim, very nice bench.

I can't do bondo pose on my workbench neither (it's about 4 feet long), but I have "bondo-like-sitting-on-the-bench" pose picture in my TODO list


----------



## BigRedKnothead

John- When you get a holdfast, and messed around with the physics of it, I think you'll get it. They are slightly smaller than the dog hole. This causes the post to angle and wedge in the hole a bit. Thicker the benchtop, longer the hole, doesn't allow for this action. 
Roughing up the post with sandpaper helps too.

Tim, that thing is hoss. Well done.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Awesome Tim! Hell yes it fits in with this thread.


----------



## john2005

Thanks Red. Thats makin some sense. Like you say, it would probably help if I had one. Soon enough though. Thanks for the info

Tim, lookin good!


----------



## RPhillips

yeah, a Bondo-esque pose on that would just be called plankin' lol


----------



## TerryDowning

Nicely done Tim. Don't forget to add the smackdown on the project.


----------



## richardwootton

Tim, that saw bench is freaking cool. I think I need to get started on one of those also. Damn conflicting projects!

Justin, looking forward to seeing that glue up man. I can't wait until I am at that point in my build, then I can get on to cutting some joints.


----------



## richardwootton

Alright, I have started getting these 4×4 beasts cleaned up and squared up. I'm primarily working on getting the two faces that will be glue line good and flat so that I will have a clean edge joint, then after glue up I will flatten the entire top and bottom of the bench top as one piece.

Getting started using an old Shelton no. 9 with a beater blade in it as a scrub plane. I think some one filed the mouth on the plane because you could drive a damn cadillac through it!
This is how they look when we get started.









Scrub a dub dub









Getting closer, and calling it a night after this one. At this point I feel pretty satisfied that it is cleaned up enough to start jointing.









The next day I am getting started on the flat sawn face of another 4×4. This thing has a really significant bow across the entire length of the board so I have my work cut out for me here. 









A good while later, my arms are killing me, and my planes are getting buried alive!









Putting the mini-heft-and-hubris to use.









I finally have this side dead flat and the shavings cleaned up.









Roll that beautiful quarter sawn footage! This particular board was sawn dead on the quarter and I really wish it showed up a little better in the picture.









Beer time! Don't judge me for not drinking those fancy beers!









Sorry for the long post, but I'm getting freaking excited.


----------



## john2005

As well you should be, thats fricken sweet!


----------



## kiyoshigawa

Thanks for the compliments on the bench, everyone. Compared to most of the builds I see on here I didn't expect it to be so well received. I'll try to get around to writing up a project page for it and tag it smackdown as requested, and I am humbled you think it should appear with the heirloom quality masterpieces that will be in the search beside it.

Also, Richard, you look like you're off to a great start. Hand planing a big benchtop flat can be really time consuming and tiring, but you'll feel really accomplished and proud when you're done. Not to mention all the hand planing practice you get. Keep up the good work!


----------



## shipwright

I'm a little intimidated by the lovely benches you guys are always building here. I check in every day and admire but my focus is on the product more than the tools so while I would love to make one of these beauties, I likely never will.
All that said I've launched a little challenge to myself to build the "best bang for the buck" workbench and since you here are the aristocracy of the workbench sector on LJ's I thought you might be interested.

It is meant to be a cheap simple utitilatarian bench that anyone with a few tools can build from readily available materials. I think it's going to be fun. I hope some of you will follow the blog.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Outstanding Richard! Thanks for taking the time to share it.

Little intimidated? Who are you kidding Paul? Your bench is glorious and your skill is off the charts. It will be great to follow along on your build, thanks. Please keep us posted.


----------



## bandit571

shipwright: Maybe go and check out my little bench. Took a Sunny Sunday afternoon to build









Just a few simple tools to build. Most of the wood I used came from a dumpster…


----------



## shipwright

That's exactly the kind of thing I'm thinking of. Mine will be sturdier and wider but more expensive and involved as well…... more bang but more bucks you might say. It would be nice if the upshot of this was a variety of cheap easy benches from which new woodworkers could choose for a first (or only) bench.
If there are several maybe we can assemble them somewhere as a one stop like the "smackdown" link.

BTW there will be no winners here or rather they will all be winners. The more submissions, the better the choice will be.
Thanks


----------



## TerryDowning

Paul. blog is on my favorites so I can check in.

As for cheap easy benches, it doesn't get much cheaper or easier than Stumpy Nubs old timey wood workshop split top bench.

a couple of 2×6's a hand saw or two, couple of chisels and you're in business. That and your wagon vice was the inspiration for my split top bench with wagon vice.

If you have a BORG near by that has a cull bin, sometimes there are dimensional cutoffs in there for like 50 cents.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"Compared to most of the builds I see on here I didn't expect it to be so well received." 
"I'm a little intimidated by the lovely benches you guys are always building here."

Ehh, you guys shouldn't be. That's the great thing about woodworking. This ain't no pecker measuring contest. Your only competing against yourself. Only you can make your skills and work progress. And its fun to see that progress.

For the most part, woodworkers are pretty gracious about the various skill levels because they remember the steps they took. None of us were born able to cut a good dovetail.

5 years ago this was the best of my ability:









One year ago it was this:









Now it's probably even better. My only regret is that I didn't document and share more of the journey.


----------



## TerryDowning

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that bench from 5 yrs ago. I'm sure it served (serves?) well.

Better bench than my folding Wolcraft POS or my trusty WorkMate.


----------



## lysdexic

^ This ain't no pecker measuring contest.

Thank goodness


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Are you relieved Scotty? Lol.

Your right Terry. It served me very well. Still does as a sharpening station. Built that for about $150 counting the vise. Built some decent furniture on that bench.


----------



## shipwright

There are a lot of right answers here. 
My particular bench will be built to suit my needs but will be built in a way that does not require great skills or resources. I already have it fully designed. Maybe I should link the SU now rather than wait until the end. The only reason that I didn't link it in the first blog was that it may change a little as I work through the build.


----------



## richardwootton

^Phew! I was getting worried I was uploading the wrong kind of photos!

Big ass oak board slid off my "workbench" and landed on my toe as I was trying to save a plane from falling on the cement floor. Didn't succeed in saving either one. But, nothing broke, on the plane or me! I was wearing boots at the time too. No barefoot action for this guy.


----------



## chrisstef

Ohhh dang. That really looks like it hurt.

I second what Scotty said. Like a fruit bat i am.


----------



## shipwright

Ouch!!!


----------



## JADobson

I've been following this thread for a long time now. My own bench is still a few years off (the one I got given to me will do for now). But I just wanted to say that there is some really really nice work going on here. Red, I could literally stare at your bench for an hour. I can't imagine what its like in person.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks man. Too bad your not closer. A full tour of my roubo would only cost you a cold beer;-)


----------



## chrisstef

Is the sweatpants only rule in effect for the roubo tour Red? I know how you like to rope em in.


----------



## woodcox

"Whatcha workin on? My reindeer? ....oh, your bench. Are you ever gonna be done with that thing?" She didn't buy that I needed 32" of an end vise finished to crank out her woodgears reindeer. 









Chops in the rough. 2" stroke on a benchtop drill press for these holes=comedy. 









My chain cover might show up today. I'm not liking the idea of covering up the wood and mechanicals of it all with a big black aluminum safety feature.


----------



## richardwootton

Lookin' good Woodcox! Obviously this HAS to get done before that reindeer can get started.


----------



## john2005

^Agreed!


----------



## CL810

Wood cox that is some mighty fine work on display. And +1 on finishing it before the reindeers.


----------



## Bertha

See it and weep. Old versus new. Old wins.


----------



## Bertha

Woodcox, that is just friggin cool.


----------



## richardwootton

Bertha, who is that wood screw made by?


----------



## Bertha

Richard, the new one is Lake Eerie. The old one, I can't even imagine. The quality on the Lake one is insane. I bet a certain person here has perfected the technique, though. I'm debating soaking the vintage one in BLO but I'll take suggestions from the pro's. It cranks like a dream. Deadman from a dead man. Not much cooler.


----------



## Bertha

Richard, I'll take pics of the whole rig if you'd like. The website shows it but I'm on a stupid friggin tablet right now. Highly recommend the Lake. Mine have been sitting for a year without temperature control and spin like the day I got them.


----------



## DanKrager

Woodcox, I agree that putting an aluminum pan on that nice wood is a shame. Why don't you use the metal one as a pattern for a wooden one? You could add a little flair with some carving etc.
DanK


----------



## woodcox

Wow, forgot my Lj anniversary. Been here a year. Woot woot. Time well spent. I have way more tools than I did a year ago;


----------



## richardwootton

Bertha, that would be awesome if you get around to it, those Lake Eerie screws are sweet. A parallel guide from a horizontal guy? I'm really starting to think about going the wooden screw route. My bench will be in a covered car port, with walls on 2 sides, until I can get into a dedicated work shop. I'm half tempted to find an old lathe on craigslist and turn my own like Mauricio did, but that's further down the road.


----------



## mochoa

Richard, I do have a really nice one that I was planning on selling eventually. The only problem is that I haven't been able to drill a perfectly plumb whole in a cylinder to use as the hub. For some reason it's always off a little bit. Probably my cheapo drill press. 
The one on my bench had the same issue. I just pared down the mating surfaces (to the chop) a little bit and it works fine.

The hub in this pic is not glued on.


----------



## richardwootton

Maur, why does it have to be perfectly plum? Does it create problems if it is off plumb?


----------



## CL810

The bench is starting to come together. Next order of business is final fitting of the vises and then shaping the chops.


----------



## Boatman53

Cl810 that looks amazing. I love it. Now I want to build another bench.
Jim


----------



## richardwootton

CL810 that looks absolutely fantastic! I'm planning on attacking my top and legs the same way and it's a little daunting. What's that behemoth there in the background?


----------



## lysdexic

CL810 - I guess, if that is the best you can do…......:^)

Seriously, I am curious, do you have an event that will symbolize the bench completion. For me, I would not affix my BC stickers until the bench was done. Finished.










I wonder because I will eagerly await the picture of said event.


----------



## lysdexic

"It's amazing how much can go wrong when you think you know what you're doing."

Ain't that the dang truth.


----------



## theoldfart

CL810, too high a benchmark. I don't think I can keep up!


----------



## TerryDowning

Nice bench CL810!!

I thought the photo with the Bondo pose was the quintessential smackdown way to commemorate a completed bench project!!

Aren't some of these over due??


----------



## DanKrager

Yes, there should be a rash of Bondo poses…
DanK


----------



## pjped

CL810, fantastic bench, love the wood on the chops and the wedges! Super nice.


----------



## CL810

Thanks guys.

*Richard* that would be my first bench that just fell short in too many ways.

*Scotty* I don't have anything planned but I like the idea - a christening of sorts.

*Kevin* -when the chairs are finished get back on task! Have you decided which way to go with the leg vise?


----------



## lysdexic

Like a punctuation. A period.

I real christening comes when your drunken vomit splatters on the floor, oozes down the cherry chop and from the St. Peters criss cross drips back onto the floor. Just sayin'.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yep. Clayton pretty much improved on every design weakness my bench has….

That son of a motherless goat!


----------



## lysdexic

I could say the same BRK. Of Clayton of course.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well, at least he was payin' attention.

We taught him everything he knows…


----------



## yuridichesky

Andy, just WOW!


----------



## mochoa

Clayton, that bench is looking amazing!


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, my vise setup will the the same as yours. Waiting for you to finish and gigot some feedback.


----------



## terryR

Yep, IF we had a bench smackdown calendar, Clayton's would deserve the cover, IMO. Even unfinished.

Gonna be hard to top that one, just sayin'.

+1 to more Bondo poses needed! Mauricio…Mos…whom else needs calling out? A silly tradition, yes, but what better way to announce, "It's done!"


----------



## Airframer

Delinquent Poses:

Mauricio
Mos
lysdexic(?)
Smitty
DonW
Yuri

Feel free to add to that list if I missed anyone…


----------



## mochoa

lol, I'll do one eventually….

Richard, the bottom of the hub is what presses against the chop/garter so if it's out of balance you will get uneven clamping pressure. I overcame this by just paring/planning down the burnished spot until the whole bottom of the hub was getting burnished.


----------



## Mosquito

Hehe no finish on my bench yet ;-)


----------



## Airframer

I think you have been using it long enough to add a nice layer of natural oils which = a finish in my book… Get to posin' Mos…. before you have a wife to explain just what the hell you are doing on top of your workbench ;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

+1 on delinquent posers.

Hey, remember that time *Mauricio *cut a racing stripe in his benchtop. Oh man….wonder how that's going…lol


----------



## CL810

*ScottyByo* - keep thinking - we've got to come up with a better "christening" than that!

You know *Red*, I couldn't sleep right if I did not admit that I studied yours and *Scotty's* benches - a lot.


----------



## mochoa

Dang *Red", why you wanna bring up old sh*t. lol. Its still there, I may re-flatten my bench soon at with time I'll glue in a strip of wood. I've gotten over it though, it doesnt stand out that much anymore full of dust.

By the way, speaking of finishing touches. I need one of those bottle openers like what Scott mounted on his bench.


----------



## woodcox

About four hours of major fettling and head scratching to get this contraption sympatico. With much advice I had to counterbore the sprocket set screws to keep from slipping. This thing does not like heavy chops. I'm going to put in uhmw plastic wear strips under the top to help the sag when opened wide. Also need to imbed dowel pins in the throat to keep the work off the greasy screws. Liquid Teflon was no match for these screws. Air tool oil seems to work well.
Vito approves but, not of my temporary speed handle. He said it reminds him of stick time he received in he Joint.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yikes. Sorry Maur. Mostly goofin…..and actually wondering how the repair went.


----------



## Tugboater78

Clayton that bench is looking sweet, been a few days since ive checked the site out, overtime on top of overtime, been "home" for 8 days but went back out mon- friday. Got my new boat, that i just transferred to, up on the repair dock. since i live 20 min from the dock i will be putting in 8 hr days down there helping in the rebuild of the engines, putting in new electric controlled steering, new fuel management systems, repair minor stuff that cant be done while it is out running. Get an off day on thanksgiving.. maybe i can get some shop time in that day. the next week i will be at dock working till wednesday again, then back out for my next 3 week boat trip. Get home the day after Christmas… then back to repair dock..


----------



## richardwootton

Scotty, that makes me miss the debaucherous summer nights in college, and last Tuesday… And probably tonight.


----------



## JADobson

HA, I just showed my wife all these bond poses. Her reply? "That should never happen"


----------



## BillWyko

I have to say, this thread has really pushed so many of us to new extremes with our benches. We'll all be dead and gone and this thread will still be going. Well done everyone, well done.

I can see it now, that skil saw was created by someone that said…."Hold my beer & watch this!"


----------



## BillWyko

Woodcdox, I added a Teflon plate between the under side of my bench that the screws slightly rest on. It made using my heavy chop work much better. I threw my back out today but PM me a reminder & I'll post pics. You can see in this pic, my chop is a monster.


----------



## Airframer

I am working on my swap item today and have finally made the decision to start this carvers vise tonight..










Could really use it right about now lol.. expect a blog entry about it once I get things rolling.


----------



## CL810

A quiet day in the shop. All hand work. Didn't even turn on the radio.










The little but of tear out will disappear when the chop is made level with the bench. Right now it's about 1/32 proud.


----------



## CL810

Eric, I'm guessing the vise and blog will be done tomorrow around 4:00 pm PT?


----------



## richardwootton

CL810, I assumed Eric would knock it out in the next hour or so and have the bench finished by the morning. I think finishes even dry fast for this guy!


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, no tails ok but no music. I wouldn't be able to wrk.


----------



## Boatman53

Eric I'm glad that the hardware is available, but I don't really like the proportions, the original just looks better to me. This is mine with thick felt pads so as to not mar the work.









Jim


----------



## Boatman53

If any of you folks visit WoodNet there is a Lake Erie wooden screw for sale in the swap and sell section.
Jim


----------



## DanKrager

Jim, is there any vice you DON'T have?  Maybe this site should have a "Vise of your dreams" forum? 
I've studied, trying to figure out what vise or holding system would would best for my carving. There is such a wide variety of forms that I doubt there is one device that could do it all… ???
DanK


----------



## Airframer

Hah!.. I actually fell asleep on the couch right after I posted that.. so Monday at 4pm pst lol.

Jim.. I'm not using the hardware just the diagrams in the build instructions. Gonna fabricate everything else in my shop.

I do plan to change the handle crank to a hand wheel (wooden). It just seems more user friendly that way if it were turned so the crank is over the bench top.


----------



## Boatman53

Dan have you seen this one I made?









It's inspired by a big vise that Michael Furtune the furniture builder has in his shop for holding chairs, etc.
Eric ShopNotes did an article on building that vise with hardware stoe bought parts. They used threaded rod but in a later issue they suggested acme rod. I'll see if I can find the link
Jim


----------



## Airframer

Yep, I have a copy you sent me. I plan to use a bit of that one mixed with a bit of the BC one. Between the 2 instructions something will get built lol.


----------



## Boatman53

Here it is Eric. http://www.woodworkingonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/shopnotes-71-shop-made-benchtop-vise1.pdf

Dan I tried to start a vise thread, it was just after I joined and didn't know to put "of your dreams" in the title. Maybe I'll try again.
Jim


----------



## Airframer

That's the one. I think you sent that to me in a message a while back when I first mentioned wanting this vise. Thanks Jim. I also have some 3/4" acme rod here just waiting to be turned into this vise. I have had this planned out for a few months now so I guess I should get on it.

I would be down for a "Vise of your dreams" thread lol..


----------



## Texcaster

It's hard to keep up with all the good work being done here. Well done everybody!


----------



## Airframer

Why not.. I went ahead and got one going… feel free to join in folks.. Vises of Your Dreams


----------



## Mosquito

Going back a little bit, but sadly *Red*, I'm sure my fiancé would understand lol


----------



## john2005

*Clayton*, that is looking pretty top notch! Very impressed. I thought I was doing good getting my legs glued together, jumped on here at the end of the day and its lookin like you about got er wrapped up.

Also not sure about the "Bondo" pose as I just glued my legs together….HA! I kill me


----------



## woodcox

CL810 that chop is a beautiful piece of wood. I would like a similar edge profile for mine but I need to upgrade my tooling. That end grain is daunting for me especially w/hard maple. I did it in a pine beam by band sawing most of the waste out then pared and filed to the line. I got less than stellar results. May I ask what your methods are? My chop is too tall to BS the bulk of the waste off. My next puchase will be a medium shoulder(3/4"?) plane. Any advice via PM or here is greatly appreciated.


----------



## woodcox

Condolences on your back injury Humidor. Take it easy for awhile until your back up to speed. I've been there before, just when you think your getting better the slightest weird wrong movement can aggravate it all over again. In time I would like to see your wear strips but, don't be tryin to get all twisted up under ur bench taking pictures on my account. I do have a quick question about the twin screw chop. Once they jaws are open a few inches, the whole chop can slide away from the sprockets a couple inches until the thrust plates hit the threads of the main screws. I have to make it do this as it seems to follow the chop out ok and stay up close to the sprockets. 

















Just wondering if this normal?


----------



## DanKrager

Thanks for the link, Jim. I remember seeing that now. I think Fine Woodworking had an article about a vise very similar. They're almost too pretty to use! 
I think your arrangement is as functional as the two referred to here. It's just plain clever. Thank you for sharing. It's going into the "pot of ideas" to get stirred around and simmer for awhile. Not likely I'll come up with anything new, but perhaps a different rearrangement of ideas… back burner thinking…
DanK


----------



## CL810

Woodcox - pm sent.


----------



## yuridichesky

*Eric* - will definitely do bondo-like pose shot when tool tray is ready. Promice. 

*Clayton* - like your quite day in the shop pretty much.

*Woodcox* - I can look at your hardware shots for hours… Send more pics, they're really nice.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"You know Red, I couldn't sleep right if I did not admit that I studied yours and Scotty's benches - a lot."

It's funny how we learn from each other via this cyber medium. It's like a funky apprenticeship. I've learned so much past year that on this forum and others that it forces me to realize I was a little over my head when I built my bench. I borrowed from my limited experience in bulding furniture…..and just winged the rest.

As I recall, I just had the Schwarz's blue bench book. And this Bad Axe article was my only reference for the dovetails. Oh well, not the first time I've had more balls than brains.


----------



## Airframer

Oh well, not the first time I've had more balls than brains.

Story of my life Red…


----------



## john2005

^+1 on the funky apprenticeship


----------



## theoldfart

Your all nuts! :0) In a metaphysical way of course.


----------



## lysdexic

"It's funny how we learn from each other via this cyber medium. It's like a funky apprenticeship."

The proof of this statement, at least for me, is how many times you reference the forum. I often find myself, when talking to family and "real" friends, referring to what I have learned here or have seen what you fellers do. It goes something like this:

My brother asks about my planes. I go on to explain the numbering system and further detail that this is a set of Type 11's. I say "However, not everyone likes T-11. Like for instance my buddy Smitty," then quickly mumble "who I know from an internet forum," normal voice "likes Type 13's." I expound about tall knobs, adjustment wheels and stickers.

or just yesterday someone commented about my shiny copper panels in the new screen doors…

"Well, i am going to let them patina, or oxidize, naturally. But there are other options. Like my buddy Red", then mumble quickly "who I know from this woodworking website. We just call him Rojo." Normal voice. "See, he made a piece of furniture with a copper top. He applied this sulfur stuff that smells like ass. It immediately turns the copper all kinds of cool colors. Then you seal it with clear coat. It is really cool but requires several steps where you rinse it with soda water and cover it with crinkled plastic."

Sometimes I whip out the ipad. Most of the time the story is immediately discounted given the source.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Nail on the head Scotty…lol

I often give a precursor to friends and co-workers, "I'm fairly involved on this woodworking forum, and my buddy on there…"

My wife is very gracious and knows some of you by name. But then again, I'm gracious when she goes into detail about different models of running shoes and how they effect her toenails.

Ever want to actually meet some of your LJ buddies just to justify the friendship?;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Red, I think you mean StefaPalooza


----------



## john2005

Yeah, we definitely need a "group hug". Hahaha


----------



## DanKrager

:]               
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  

What a bunch of guys, even if one of you is drunk!
DanK


----------



## widdle

Haa..funny stuff..I like to have friends and customers think i came up with idea or joint on my own… selfish..


----------



## Boatman53

Hi woodcox here is a wooden cover on a veritas twin screw. The bench was made by Darnell in Canada.








Jim


----------



## woodcox

That is a beautiful bench. I really like the handle and the large area outside of the right screw for big vertical options. I believe the chop inlay is something he wanted for dovetails? Notice the vacuum chute in the tray. Thanks Jim. I haven't looked at his bench in a while. I don't remember what he carved the cover out of but he sure does great work.


----------



## woodcox

That is a beautiful bench. I really like the handle and the large area outside of the right screw for big vertical options. I believe the chop inlay is something he wanted for dovetails? Notice the vacuum chute in the tray. Thanks Jim. I haven't looked at his bench in a while. I don't remember what he carved the cover out of but he sure does great work. 









While out shopping today I found a nice cutting board for my wear strips. They are 3/8" thick and sit under some bamboo flooring scraps to get to the right thickness.


----------



## BHolcombe

This is from when I was assembling the top, I had it clamped to a temporary base.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

+1 on wood cover for your vise chain. At a woodworking show, I was surprised at how cheezy the veritas cover was.

Kev- I'm not too confident Stefapalooza is gonna happen. Not so long as Stef is still sporting a house dress and playing Martha Stewart.


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, but to BHog he's look in' good!


----------



## chrisstef

Just because a guy rocks a housecoat once in a while doesn't mean he's gone all soft. I still use full strength bleach on the tub and toilets …. with no gloves!


----------



## theoldfart

Betcha ya wear goggles and a rebreather though, oh wait, that's the diaper thang Mr mom!


----------



## CL810

Vises installed and operational.


















I wiped some mineral spirits on to see how it'll look finished.


----------



## theoldfart

Looks good, pose comin'?


----------



## CL810

Couple of questions.

First, someone asked about epoxy for wood I believe on this thread. What the the recommended epoxy and can you put dye in it?

Second, turpentine is out. Since it's gotten cold I won't be able to apply with doors open. Is varnish, BLO, and mineral spirits 33-33-33 the way to go? Or is it BLO followed by 50-50 varnish and mineral spirits.


----------



## CL810

Not for a while. Lots of detail cleanup/cover-up mistakes kind of work, then the finish, then the shelf, then…..


----------



## theoldfart

uh huh, I see. Still hiding behind the fence!


----------



## woodcox

Nice CL810. Did you drill completely through the end chop for the dogs or are those prairie dogs?


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks oldfart!

CL, that is gorgeous.


----------



## john2005

Clayton, I'm not gonna lie. I'm jealous. First cause its functional and second cause its beautiful. Well done. That wooden screw really sets it off. Makin me wish I hadn't gone the metal screw route.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ What John says, re: bench. It is absolutely gorgeous… and works too. Totally awesome job (so far).


----------



## pjped

CL810, That thing just keeps looking better every post. You've made some great choices in wood. Making it tough to go back to my eng wood flooring on a solid core door bench!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Man, that chop is friggin hoss!


----------



## merrill77

CL810: That bench is way too nice for the workshop-belongs in the living room with a TV on top 

As for the finish, I just wiped a coat of BLO on mine.


----------



## JayT

Clayton, the bench is looking awesome!

I used thinned BLO for my bench finish (2 parts MS, 1 part BLO) Of course it didn't look near as good as yours before I started. I also thought about just using Danish Oil.

Re: Epoxy. I use garden variety 2 ton epoxy and tint it with a drop of Testor model paint. Works well for anything I've done with it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

oh ya Clayton, I was too busy drooling.

I've never tinted epoxy. I just mix it with sawdust for color. And I just use danish oil (similar to the blend your describing). Don't want my bench getting all sliiickery.


----------



## terryR

Clayton, I tint epoxy all the time, usually with sawdust. But I only use System3 epoxy, so splurged on my last purchase and got some of their black colorant…very messy…I'm already back to sawdust! lol

I've also used Elmer's fiberglass resin (borg) to fill gaps…of course, I doubt your bench has gaps like mine does! Just add 10 times as much hardner as per instructions, and it can be colored with acrylic paints. Sands to a nice finish.

+1 to the stunning chop! I love that friggin knot…Buddy, if YOU don't pose on that sweet bench, I'll be happy to!


----------



## shampeon

Equal parts BLO, MS, and shellac are another concoction that works pretty well. The alcohol in the shellac acts as a drier for the BLO, and it dries a lot faster than Danish oil.

That's one beautiful bench.


----------



## lysdexic

I've said this before so pardon me if I am being repetitious:

I used 3;2;1 - mineral spirits: poly: BLO

I am happy to have the poly on the rest of the bench but a film finish is, in my opinion, a mistake for the top. That said I do not think that the poly is crucial for the rest of the bench either. That brings us to diuted BLO. But we know that BLO offers minimal protection by itself.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"The alcohol in the shellac acts as a drier for the BLO, and it dries a lot faster than Danish oil."

Huh! Didn't know that. Ian, yooou sooo smart.


----------



## mochoa

I like 1-1-1, haven't had any slickness issues. BLO will protect from waterbased glues sticking but won't protect against stains as much, that's where the poly comes in.

I like 1-1-1 for the base to, maybe even a little more poly would be good like 3-2-1, I've dripped dye on it and the 111 does protect somewhat but still stains.

The guy at woodcraft has a french oak roubo with a toothed top, that idea is growing onm me but there would be no protection agains glue or stain…


----------



## Hammerthumb

Great bench Clayton. I agree with Ian on the mixture. I think the shellac helps maintain moisture content also.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"...a french oak roubo with a toothed top, that idea is growing on me…"

Thought about that myself. Not enough to actually do the dirty, but I have thought about it. And mostly because, like you said Mos, clearing glue squeeze out is incredibly easy with a Watco finish. Once it's grooved, that may come to an end. Does stuff slide around on the top? Well, haven't noticed enough to complain to myself yet. That's another reason not to tooth, perhaps…


----------



## donwilwol

That's another reason not to tooth, perhaps

I agree with that Smitty. It seems we sometimes feel the need to fix something before we figure out whether its really broken. I would hate a toothed top. It seems to me it would be like working on sand paper.


----------



## jmartel

I still need to finish my bench. I'm re-thinking the middle toolwell. Right now it just seems like a pain in the butt. The top isn't permanently attached at the moment, so I think I may just make a solid top.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I guess it's because I don't plane the faces of boards using the planing stop; it's typically held by bench dog and end vise so no slipping or sliding around.

Agreed on the sand paper. Sticking with the smooth top…

Jmart, if I ever decided I just had to have a tool well, one could be strapped to the back of the bench without too much difficulty. Will I ever decide that? No way. Had one, repeatedly filled it with crap, and was happy to see there wasn't one on my roubo-type bench. If I had to use one that featured a tool well, I'd probably find a way to 'fill it' with some kind of insert.

To those that love them, good on ya. Like so many other things, it's a choice. Just not mine so I see where you're coming from.


----------



## jmartel

I gotta say though, I really really enjoy having a leg vise now. Bear in mind, I didn't have a workbench that was anything more than a pair of kitchen cabinets and a door on top before this, but it is very nice to be able to clamp long boards and joint the edges by hand (no jointer) in a pretty quick fashion. Then I run them through the table saw on both sides and clean it up.

My wagon vise is functional, but could use some tuning. The lower guide rails are a bit too low and the entire block moves vertically when I clamp something. Just gotta fix it up. Too many things going on at once right now.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

+10 to loving a leg vise!


----------



## mochoa

Clayton, awesome bench by the way, love the chop, the wooden screw, the brass garter, the end vise. Everything! Great job.

The thing with the toothed top I realized after seeing it in person was that the scratches are not very deep and can be planed away easily if you wanted to go back to a smooth top. That and the curcular saw scar across my bench got me thinking. LOL.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I was wondering if part of the motivation wasn't scar-related. lol


----------



## mochoa

lol, glad I can laugh about it now…. kind of…. :-(


----------



## Mosquito

Good news! Sounds like I'll be moving into a house (rental) with a 2 car garage with space for workbench and tools! (this relates to Smitty's comment about the tool well) We'll see if I still love my tool well once I've got more space around to put things lol.


----------



## chrisstef

Hell yea Mos. Congrats buddy!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'm a little bummed. It just won't be the same when Mos isn't working in a spare room with plastic on the floor.


----------



## jmartel

I miss the garage I had when I lived in CT. It was a 13×38' tandem. About 190 sqft bigger than my current house.


----------



## Mosquito

it is uninsulated, though… so we'll see about that, not sure how much I fancy that part of it… I do have some reservations.

The plastic carpet runners was a recent "upgrade" and it makes clean up WAY easier lol. Had I been knowing I might not have a shop for a few years, I may have bit the bullet and spent $400 on an oversized (8'x10') chair mat thing… would have been exactly the size I needed, and so much better than that damn canvas tarp…


----------



## JayT

+1 Red.

Seems like just yesterday he was working on the Workmate in his spare room. The guy's just not content, always wanting something bigger and better. 

Congrats, Mos. Great news!


----------



## Mosquito

lol honestly, the size of my shop doesn't bother me that much, if I only had more storage space (shelves, cabinets, etc) it wouldn't be bad. It's got ample room for working, the way I work. It's 8'x14', but my "working area" is about 6'x8'. It's enough for me


----------



## theoldfart

Everyone says that size doesn't matter! Glad you'll have a"real" shop dude. Congrats


----------



## yuridichesky

Mos, my congratulations!

Kevin, I spent a year working in a condom-sized shop, and I now I'm strong believer that size DOES matter


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mos, Congrats man!!


----------



## richardwootton

Lol Yuri!

Congrats Mos, that's great news! I am building my bench in a car port with walls on 2 sides. The cold is killing me at the moment. It's a good thing you made your bench to be somewhat knock-down. Now you'll just have to worry about all the extra money you're going to be spending on tools to fill that garage


----------



## Mosquito

I should clarify "I'm moving into a house (rental) with my fiance", so I'm sure the tool purchases will have to go through that filter first lol


----------



## chrisstef

Paypal Mos. Paypal, secret bank accounts, and top drawer funds. We'll teach ya the ways.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Cash and USPS Money Orders work well, too. At least that's what I'm told…


----------



## chrisstef

Yup and a discreet alternate shipping address. Work for example. Or be the first one home.


----------



## theoldfart

Didn't someone fail the be home first rule recently? Only works if the delivery people are consistent, though a bribe may get them to give you aheads up maybe!


----------



## merrill77

You guys are doing this the hard way! Build her some nice furniture and pretty soon you'll be getting tools at [gift-giving holiday] and every birthday  I've actually run out of tools I want. Well, not really, but I ran out of tools I need years ago. She doesn't need to know about this minor distinction


----------



## richardwootton

She'll never notice that nice new cabinet saw and 12" jointer!


----------



## Hammerthumb

So Mos - with all that extra room, how big will the next jointer plane be??


----------



## AnthonyReed

Gorgeous Clayton!!! Wow man. So beautiful.

"He said it reminds him of stick time he received in he Joint." - Really? No one? Thanks Woodcox, nice vise work too.

I have no advice on asking another for permission to spend the money you have earned but congrats on the forthcoming bigger shop Mos.


----------



## Mosquito

Still a couple of months away (lease start of January, my current lease ends in March). I look forward to it 

lol Paul… well, let's see how wide the garage is first, and then we'll go 1/2 that lol


----------



## richardwootton

LJ Panel, have any of ya'll seen some one use a live edge piece for a leg vise chop? I've got a pretty sweet piece of black walnut that was an off cut from a longer board, and I got distracted from the bench build and started cleaning it up last night to reveal some gorgeous grain. I don't know if it would be wide enough, it's 2.5" thick (I think), but it does get pretty narrow towards the bottom. I'd have to use Jim's chain guide instead of a traditional parallel guide in all likelihood.


----------



## waho6o9

Congratulations Mos, you should do well in your upgraded shop!


----------



## Boatman53

Richard I don't know why you couldn't use that live edge piece. My only thought against would be if had a lot of sap wood as that isn't as stiff or strong. My chop is only 5 1/2" wide the same as the leg so it is easy to use the whole length of the chop if need be. 
Jim


----------



## Mosquito

Richard, I think that could look pretty cool as a leg vise…


----------



## shipwright

Here's a good video about Patrick Edwards' bench for those of you considering the merits of a toothed top.
http://woodtreks.com/design-build-traditional-woodworking-workbench-tail-shoulder-leg-vises/1651/


----------



## DanKrager

I'm with Smitty and the others that cringe at a toothed top. If it's grip you're after, just get some of that rubberized shelf "paper", the porous stuff that looks like expanded sheet metal. That will hold good enough for sanding and will add a lot of grip to a smooth surface under a clamp.
DanK


----------



## richardwootton

Jim, I had wondered about that also. I don't know what the Janka hardness of black walnut sap wood is, but it doesn't seem to be that much softer than the heart wood. I'll have to remeasure when I get home, but I think the sap wood at it's widest point is not even a full inch.

Mos, I am just kind of playing around with the idea, but I thought, what the hell, this might be kind of cool. I have 10/4 and 12/4 Cherry and Walnut that I can totally use if I don't end up liking it. It's still pretty far off before I need to really start thinking about my leg vise logistics.


----------



## CL810

Paul, thanks for that link. Interesting video and I was not aware of wood treks.com


----------



## CL810

Thanks for all of the suggestions guys. I've made up test boards of maple and cherry to test several of the options. Will report back on the results.


----------



## shipwright

You're welcome Clayton. Patrick is a very fine craftsman and put a great deal of thought into his bench. He is a purist about hand tools and not a bad marquetry teacher to boot.

BTW let me add my praises to your gorgeous creation. It's a work of art for sure.


----------



## DaddyZ

Congrats MOS !!!


----------



## richardwootton

I don't think I would like a toothed top on my bench. I wouldn't be able to see all of those gorgeous medullary rays in that quarter sawn oak goodness!


----------



## woodcox

I tried some drill press turning for my vise handles in maple.









So much for eye ball uniformity. First one on the left. I will chuck it back up to match. 
Combi rasp, chisel, Shinto saw rasp to shape and a few more to go. 









Definitely a proper lathe in my future.


----------



## jmartel

Woodcox, you can make a template out of hardboard or 1/8" ply or something like that. Just cut half-the silhouette out and hold it up to compare.


----------



## woodcox

Good idea jmartel. I will try it.


----------



## terryR

Woodcox, after you cut out the shape you want to copy onto a wooden piece from hardboard, cut little notches in the hardboard template where the piece has its smallest diameter, largest diameter, and any features like a flat edge or bead. Sorry for the crappy photo. best I have on hand…










While the drill press is spinning on low speed, you can place your pencil in these v-shaped grooves to make circular rings around the wood piece, and help you focus on the important features.

Takes some time to make the silly template, but it's worth it down the road if you want to make another.


----------



## woodcox

Thanks terry. I've been thinking about how to get better uniformity and BAM, advice on how to do it better. LJ's rocks!


----------



## CL810

Terry you are a smart man!


----------



## CL810




----------



## theoldfart

Andy, huma huma! To die for bro'


----------



## yuridichesky

Andy, pure joy on this picture!


----------



## richardwootton

That's a sexy lookin' bench man! Bondo pose!


----------



## lysdexic

Clay ton- the deadman rail. Screwed? If so, the pattern suggests a removable segment.


----------



## RGtools

Sorry for the blur, it's been a heavy caffeine use kind of day. However, I wanted to show you guys how the design I posted a few months ago panned out so far. Made a few changes but I am very happy with the way this looks on the first dry fit.










PS Veritas bench bolts, whilst awesome, are a pain to install if you use a tight tolerance on any of the holes involved.


----------



## richardwootton

Ryan,
Everything is looking great! What kind of wood did you use for this build? Is this bench a replacement for old bench?


----------



## CL810

*Lys* - yes & yes. And I'm starting to regret it. They stick out like sore thumbs. I went this route because it was an economical use of wood to not integrate the rail and stretcher. I thought about hiding the screw on the backside of the 45 but I thought the rail might "scoot" towards the front of the stretcher.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ I spy a #203, and it warms the cockles of my heart.
.
.
.
And it warms my cockles knowing Stef loves it when I said cockles…


----------



## CL810

*Smitty*, is there a time when two 203's are necessary?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Bottom and end of board is the time I've used two. I'll go snap a pic, stand by…


----------



## shipwright

Here's the progress on my "Short Block V8" beginners bench. The photo is made out of a little less than two sheets of 3/4 plywood. All that's left is the vices and finish. The blog is here. 
It's not a pretty little thing, but then that's not the point on this one.


----------



## CL810

Quality = Conformance to Requirements.


----------



## woodcox

Quick and very cool Paul. A lot of possibilities within it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

+1 Paul. Great little bench there.

Ryan- I didn't even know you were building a bench. I'm so outta the loop.

Andy- could ya plug em? Or scrap that one and glue the next.


----------



## CL810

Yea Red, that was my thinking, I could always glue one down the road. But I hadn't thought about plugs. I'm going to look at that.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Here's an example where I use both #203s. Is it required to have a pair? (easy Stef) No.


----------



## CL810

Thanks Smitty! I think I'll keep my pair. ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

i need a pair!


----------



## theoldfart

Wait for it….!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^LOL. You crack me up Kevin.


----------



## theoldfart

I knew someone would come through. It reaffirms my faith in the brothers!


----------



## richardwootton

I was waiting for something along the lines of "so does Stef" or any number of names that could be inserted there…


----------



## RGtools

Not a replacement *richardwootton*, I am making it for my grampa as a kind of repayment for getting some of the crap out of the shop (including his old crappy bench).

I only posted the plans and not much else on here since, I have not even posted my finished tool chest as a project (for shame). Been going in too many directions at once to sit still and type something thoughtful.


----------



## theoldfart

Ryan, finished? As in stained/painted/oiled/veneered/ you get the idea. I caught a glimpse in your pic and it looked naked so to speak!


----------



## RGtools

^I went with with 1.1.1. mix of spar varnish, tung, & mineral spirits, ragged on a few coats on the outside and called it a bloody day. No paint as you predicted early on, next time I should just listen to you.


----------



## theoldfart

Ryan, can you post a pic in the tool chest thread? Like to see how it came out, promise no smart assed toldyaso's.


----------



## RGtools

^Will do.


----------



## woodcox

I finally have a functional vise on the bench. Flush and cut to width. I'm always stoked when doing final planing as each part goes on the whole.










I cambered the face of the outer chop. I still have to clean up the saw marks. I nailed a red rag to the lumber when I was bringing it home in my truck. I went a little deep with it and thought the hole wouldn't be there when I cut the inner chop to length. DOH! I picked up the lumber on my lunch break. Later, one of my minions was taking trash out and gave himself a nice goose egg on his head. "We'll, didn't you see the rag? Haha, 8/4 to the dome!" I think I'll leave the hole for a giggle.


----------



## CL810

Woodcox I like it! Have I missed pics of the base? The first pic is the first time I really noticed it. More pics?


----------



## richardwootton

Smitty, I always love seeing your bench, and shop for that matter.

Woodcox, it's looking great brother! I remember when you were building the base, but I also don't remember seeing it all put together.


----------



## theoldfart

Woodcox, help a dumb old guy out. What are the wooden pins for that I see in the last pic?


----------



## woodcox

OF- the pins are sunk higher than screws. They keep wide work from dropping down onto the greasy screws. If you buy the vise from LV, 3/8" steel pins are provided within the hardware kit. I just found the screws on eBay, matched up a chain and hardware to make it work. I must say if I would have paid full price at LV for the vise on top off all the fettling needed to make it functional would have given monetary regrets. 
Beautiful chairs you have made. Cool to see all the progression.

New iPhone since I built the base of the bench. I will dig up pics from the puter and my old phone and post em. Thanks for the reminder. A bunch of pics on that phone I need to save. Especially my first born's infant pics. 
Thanks guys.


----------



## woodcox

Inspired by Len Cullum's article of Japanese saw horses in Make magazine. I made them a little heavier and added some curves to the profiles. Just pine beams from the home store. All draw bored M&T joinery.




























Initially I wanted a mobile bench that I could remove the top to use the horses elsewhere if needed. Since adding all the hardwood and end vise(still have to add face vise too) it is TOO heavy lift the top myself. In hindsight I should have just built a traditional base in the bench. Comme ci, comme ca. Never too late to make it a monolith someday. 
I did gang them together temporarily with 4×8 beams. They may stay for ballast.


----------



## grfrazee

Finally finished my bench!



And, of course, the Bondo Pose!


----------



## yuridichesky

Hell yes! Great bench, great pic!


----------



## Mosquito

heck yes! Looks like a great bench


----------



## richardwootton

Awesome bench, I really like that tail vise! Great Bondo pose also!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Something about a woodworker finishing their own bench just makes me smile.

Great pose too!


----------



## merrill77

Looks great!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice indeed! And the cabinet under the benchtop is a great addition, you'll love those drawers. Congrats on a fine build, well done.


----------



## grfrazee

Thanks guys. I'm looking forward to quite a few decades of good use out of it. Of course, for the near future I need to make sure my Dad doesn't claim ownership of it…


----------



## CL810

Dang that's nice!


----------



## theoldfart

Great job, good pose, now build something! :0)>


----------



## Texcaster

woodcox, those are mighty horses!
Love the bench grfrazee!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Damn fine work Grfazee! Congrats on its completion.


----------



## Airframer

Very Nice! Great looking bench!

Mos… Tick Tock Tick Tock….


----------



## richardwootton

Woodcox, what kind of wood did you use for the stretchers?


----------



## terryR

Great bench, grfrazee! Lots of details to like. The Bondo Smile says it all. LOL

My goodness, what a huge shop you have!


----------



## Mosquito

oh Red, I built clocks for Christmas last year…


----------



## theoldfart

Damn bar keeps on getting' higher, projects get in the way, it's Monday, I'll finish mine SOMEDAY. grfzee WELL DONE and respectable pose.


----------



## woodcox

Richard- the horses and temporary stretchers are all Douglas fir.


----------



## grfrazee

Thanks everyone. It feels good to have the bench complete.

@terryR - The shop is my dad's. It's an outbuilding about 28'x40', which he saved up for by working part time as a college chemistry teacher. He worked in a single-car garage for over 20 years before we moved to the new house, which had a couple acres on which to build. Of course, they moved to the new house while I was in college so I only really got one summer to really use the shop full-time.


----------



## TerryDowning

Ok, I'm calling the saw bench with wedge powered wagon vise and integrated saw till done!



blog series for this bench.


----------



## Mosquito

Dang it, even a bondo pose on the saw bench… ok, I might have to cave and finally take one… who knows if I'll ever get around to finishing it lol


----------



## AnthonyReed

Right on Terry! Nice job.


----------



## TerryDowning

My son took that for me. 
I asked him to take the picture he was having a ball with it.

"Bench Porn?? Really??" 
"Mom, you missed it dad had me take a bench porn shot of him to post on the Internet!"

Wife was completely unphased.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Terry. Love the saw bench. I enjoy matching some faces with the names as well.

Ya, my kids think I'm weird too. That's just a Dad thing I guess.


----------



## richardwootton

Great saw bench Terry, I've got to get around to building one of those…


----------



## yuridichesky

Terry, great bench! And the integrated saw till is something I will definitely steal from you


----------



## kiyoshigawa

Integrating the saw till is a wonderful idea. Right now my saws are just stacked on the ground. Now to figure out how best to add it to my current bench…


----------



## woodcox

Nice work Terry.


----------



## merrill77

Nice! I can't think of any reason to build myself a saw bench, but if I did, I think I'd build yours


----------



## BigRedKnothead

First full winter with my Roubo. Yep, that top moves….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Get rid of that crap, you certainly don't want to be embarrassed by such a bench when your guy friends stop by… Need my address?


----------



## TerryDowning

I wonder what shipping to So Cal would be on that??


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I know. I'll guess I'll wait til spring before I show anyone my hideous bench again;-)

Shipping on a 500lb, 8 ft bench to Cali? That would be spendy.


----------



## richardwootton

Red, have you noticed the through tenons being proud, or recessed with the movement of the top?


----------



## DanKrager

It cost only $800 to ship a custom made California king size sleigh bed to Hawaii. The package weighed about 500 lbs. I thought about putting some plywood in the bottom, some sealant, and sailing it over…
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Dan, should have tossed it on a screen door with some of that infomercial sealant stuff (snicker)

Richard- No, the through tenons/dovetails haven't protruded on this bench. But I have a confession to make…...I glued 'em. Man, I tell you guys all my darkest secrets….lol. 
Ya, despite reading about Schwarz mocking his students for gluing them, I did it too. I don't even know why. They were so snug you needed a small sledge to get them into place. Anyway, no problems for that yet.

That's it. I'm just gonna have a big bonfire and send my roubo out in a blaze of glory. Then I can build a better one. Better than Scott's ooorrrr Andy's…...lol

Ah man, I crack myself up.


----------



## woodcox

^SALIGIA.
I count four.

edit- sorry to judge, power is out. Been drinking in the dark;(


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, it's kinda like when Johnny cash was asked which of the deadly sins he struggled with. He said he was partial to all seven.


----------



## JMM_4

Here is my first attempt at a clamp bench. I plan on building cabinets for the garage. I placed a level on the 4 foot span last night and I'm off by 1/8". I plan on swapping out the 3/8 top ply with MDF for a smooth finish.

So from a rookie to the experts….what do you think?


----------



## shipwright

Does this qualify me for the club?
The project is posted here and the blog here.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Too cool Paul.


----------



## richardwootton

Haha! Damn right it does! I can't wait for my Bondo pose, unlike so many others that have conveniently ignored their call outs…


----------



## DanKrager

Nice, Paul.
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Paul.

*insert background "Mary Did You Know" music
Bondo did you know….that your little pose….would be a bench cult phenom
Bondo did you know….


----------



## shipwright

Of course, there's only one Bondo.
The rest of us are mere followers.


----------



## terryR

Nice lil bench, Paul! I like the wedges powering the vises…no chance of a rusty screw down the road…

The Bondo pose is great, too, nice to put your face with the V8 build!

The next tradition we need to instill…carved chops!


----------



## yuridichesky

Well, now I know that I'm gonna fit on my own tiny workbench for Bondo shot


----------



## shipwright

If anyone does build one or even just a leg vice, the free logo offer is always open.

BTW, I may be catching something from all you hand toolers here. In my career power tools were necessary to get the job done and have always been my go-to tools. I can do most of it by hand but usually don't. My next project however will be to make three wooden planes, a jack, a rabbet and a block with some blades I just received from Hock Tools. Then with the bench and the planes ….... the dark side beckons …. :-0 !!

Thanks for the comments.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, don't forget Blue-haired roubo girl though. She gets props;-)


----------



## richardwootton

Oh I've been missing her! I'm gonna go find me a blue headed girl to pose on my bench when I git-r-dun… So I've got at least another year to find me a smurf head!


----------



## dbray45

Just looked at your bench Paul - really nice work. As for using hand tools versus power tools, it's all good. I have found that when I am making something where time is an issue, power tools are used more. When I am making something and have the time to make it the way I want, I prefer hand tools.


----------



## CL810

*Red* - do you remember whose bench the blue haired woman is sitting on?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Here's the blog Andy. Evidently that is his "faerie queen."

http://www.instructables.com/id/Roubo-Style-Workbench/


----------



## CL810

Ok, that guy is interesting. He also did an "Instructable" on how to make your own St. Andrew's cross here.

Certainly doable. With Benchcrafted's cross being only $99 it may not be worth the hassle.


----------



## richardwootton

Does anyone know the dimensions of the Woodwright's Moravian workbench? I'm really liking the look and simplicity of it. I just can't tell how wide the top is, minus the tool well.
http://www.woodwrightschool.com/moravian-workbench/


----------



## rpd

re the Moravian workbench. the dimensions are given in the build blog the top starts on page 7.


----------



## shampeon

Richard: the last page has a PDF of the drawings, with dimensions.
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/wMyers/moravianBench/moravianBench-16.asp

Sweet bench. That Will Myers guy knows what's up.


----------



## richardwootton

Thanks for the links guys. After reading the blog there are some design aspects that I have questions about. Firstly, do the legs need to be splayed? My assumption is that this is for added stability on a bench that doesn't have quite as much heft as a larger Roubo, but is it imperative?

It also seems like a bit extra work to have to add the back for the leg vise instead of having it run through the leg like it would have been done traditionally. So I guess I just don't really understand the logic behind this approach.

The last design concern I had was attaching the top to the base using dowels. Again I'm making an assumption here, but was this just done because it was easier or faster? I think I would rather do a through tenon into the top, but leave it unglued for easier transport. Would there be a problem with this approach?

Thanks for reading my ramblings.


----------



## shampeon

The splayed legs give more stability lengthwise, yes, and yes, that makes it more difficult to add a leg vise. As a practical concern, I don't think that stability on the long edge is much of a problem, even for a small bench. The stability along the width might be an issue for a small bench (which is why small Roubo's often have splayed back legs).

I think at least half the reason for the splayed legs is for aesthetics on the Moravian. But the design of the bench could work completely fine with non-splayed legs.

It's much, much easier to use dowels rather than mortise/tenons. After all, a dowel is just a round floating tenon. Again, as a practical matter, with a sufficiently large dowel and a sufficiently stout top, it will hold just as well as an unglued mortise and tenon. A through tenon is usually wedged to fill in the gaps. Not always, but often. No reason you couldn't do it on this bench, though.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I don't see any reason you couldn't splay the vise like on an English workbench.










The dowels make me nervous. Maybe loose tenons for the mortises?


----------



## mochoa

The moravian design needs a stub tenon to resist the force of the leg vise, otherwise the leg vise pushes the top off of the base.


----------



## richardwootton

Maur, that's kind of what I was thinking. The leg vise seems like it could pop those dowels out pretty easily. Hell, I've been wanting to try cutting some big ass tenons and pounding out some nice big holes. Easy fellas…


----------



## mochoa

Yeah if you look closely at that blog again you will see that there is a stub tenon incorporated, the dowels are extra. I think there is a sketchup model on 3D warehouse to.


----------



## shampeon

I guess it depends on the size of the dowel. A 3/4" hardwood dowel would be pretty stout, and if you double them up….


----------



## Slyy

Wow guys, some serious work going on in here! I stumbled onto Lumberjocks a few weeks ago in a google search for woodworking benches and found myself looking at some incredible efforts here! My grandfather was a hobbyist woodworker and recently passed away. I remember fondly hanging out in his shop as a little kid watching him do some amazing things with wood. Inherited a few of his old beat up tools and relIzed I want to give his hobby a go as well!

Have only a bit of woodworking experience myself (mostly vintage war relic firearm stock repair for friends and myself) but figured those skills could translate into general woodworking. Figured I'd leave my initial mark here in the post that got me really thinking about this hobby! When it warms up a bit in a few months I'll give the workbench building a good try! Appreciate all the fantastic ideas you have given me in this thread! Hopefully I'll have something to show for it in the not to distant future!

Incidentally restoring old things to use them again as they were meant to is fascinating to me, hence my current woodworking experience of fixing old firearm stocks that seemed otherwise nothing by trash. So I also stumbled across DonW's fascinating hand saw thread and his hand plane thread! I think I'm gonna like it here!!


----------



## BTimmons

Welcome aboard Jake, you're in good company here.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jake, welcome to the jungle. Hope to see you around, good luck with your hobby start-up!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Welcome aboard Jake.


----------



## donwilwol

Welcome Jake. It sounds like you should never pick up an old hand plane and restore it.

Welcome to LJ's.


----------



## DanKrager

Jake, there are some really love sick puppies here. It's contagious and they (we) have no problem enabling… so, get on the toboggan and enjoy the slide! Welcome.
DanK


----------



## richardwootton

Welcome Jake! When you get around to building that bench please post pictures. There's nothin' better than a little bench porn.


----------



## Slyy

Haha, ya the woodworking g porn is excellent around here! The wife is concerned about my obsessions!


----------



## john2005

Oh, you'll like it Jake, welcome. You may end up spending more than you had planned due to these enablers, but you will enjoy the ride.


----------



## rpd

This the workbench I built last winter from the plans in the book
*Working Wood books I and II by Paul Sellers*








Made from pine 2×4 studs

I have posted more pictures on my project page Workbench ala Paul Sellers


----------



## rpd

Richard "It also seems like a bit extra work to have to add the back for the leg vise instead of having it run through the leg like it would have been done traditionally. So I guess I just don't really understand the logic behind this approach."

The legs on a Roubo are usually 5" or more, with the smaller leg on the Moravian bench I would be concerned that the hole for the screw would weaken it .

When I add a leg vise to my bench I will be mounting it beside the leg similar to the way it was done on the Moravian bench for that very reason.


----------



## terryR

rpd, nice looking bench! Looks a LOT like mine for some reason! LOL.

(Probably due to Mr Sellers' instructions)

Do you have vices planned for the bench?

Welcome aboard, Jake!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

rpd- Wow, I really like the looks of your bench too.

re: Leg vise. I'm using mine more since I removed the crochet. I'm sure mine is overbuilt, 6×6 legs and a 2" thick chop. Don't know how small of a leg you could get away with.

Anyway I don't think I understood the physics or cantilevered clamping force a leg vise provides when I built it…..but I do now. These things are silly strong. In this pic, I've got her cinched down pretty tight. There's gotta be a ton of force on that lower pin. I bounced all my 240 lbs on this leg and it would not budge. 









Sidenote: I really could have used a no. 10 style plane today.


----------



## john2005

Oh how I want a #10. Hey Red, how is your deadman attached? Pics please?


----------



## yuridichesky

rpd, very nice workbench, though it looks kinda naked without vises 
But this is kinda nice too


----------



## Mosquito

haven't had a chance to actually use my #10 yet :-(


----------



## BigRedKnothead

John- here's a pic of the stretcher. Same double chamfer everyone uses to keep sawdust out. 









I don't have a pic of the "tongue" that runs under the top. But you can see it clearly in the pic I posted earlier. It's just a piece of 3/4" oak ripped 1" wide, and glued to the underside. Honestly I did this because I didn't have an upcut router bit to make a long groove.


----------



## richardwootton

Rpd, I think my bench will be more like a smaller Roubo possibly with splayed legs, I'm still trying to nail down the base design, but the legs will definitely be beefy, at the very least 4×4.

Mos, you've got that 45, you should just send me that #10!


----------



## john2005

I thought that looked like it ran on a tongue. Do you like it? Easy to pop out? Thx


----------



## BigRedKnothead

It works well enough John. You can't pop it out. I glued the tongue with the deadman in place.

The deadman is nice when you need it, but it doesn't see daily use by any means.


----------



## grfrazee

@john2005, if you're looking for a removable deadman, have a look at my bench. I have a similar setup to BigRed but made the tongue at the top longer to slide into the groove on the underside of the bench. You can see it removed on the project page.


----------



## richardwootton

I think Mauricio cut out a small section in the bottom rail and fitted a piece to be screwed into the void. At least I think that's who did that.


----------



## richardwootton

Mos, was it you that built the small bench to be used in your apartment? I'm drawing a total blank right now. If so, what are the dimensions of that bench? I'm thinking about building two benches, one smaller one for inside when the weather isn't great and then a full size.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

What frazee described is what's done w/ my bench.


----------



## lysdexic

John2005,

I did the same. My ridge piece on the bottom is fixed and solid. The deadman has a tongue that rides in a groove in the top. At the far end of the groove it is deeper by the same dimension As the height of the ridge piece. That way, when the deadman is slid all the way to the right, I can lift it, clear the ridge piece and out it comes.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I tinkered with a setup like that for my deadman, but I thought it would rack/bind while sliding. I dunno.

I figure if I ever want to change it, (I don't know why….it's a vision of loveliness….lol), I'll make a saw cut 10" from one end of the tongue, and give it a whack. Waaahh-laaah.


----------



## grfrazee

Mine does rack/bind when sliding if you push on the wrong part. Adding a coat of BLO or wax to the V-slide at the bottom helps. However, being able to remove the deadman (especially considering the drawers I have on the bottom of my bench) far outweighs the infrequent binding of the deadman.


----------



## Mosquito

*Richard* - yeah, I built a smaller bench for in my apartment. It's 52" long, and the top is 10.5" for the slab, but overall 19.5-20" including the tool well. It's a decent size, but it does move sometimes, especially noticeable when doing cross grain work, or doing some heavy sawing in the leg vise (pushing towards the back). I haven't yet used it on a non-carpeted floor, so I'm not sure how much of it will go away once it's on a hard surface. It's a good size for me, though; I've been quite happy with it so far.


----------



## DaddyZ

Mos

Your workmate is moving because it isn't heavy enough.

Put that bench behind it on it . It won't move near as much Then…. 

Nice Bench !!!!


----------



## richardwootton

Thanks Mos! Your workmate looks so sad and lonely sitting next to your nice bench. That's just about the perfect size for what I'm needing inside. I might go just a bit wider and longer, maybe 60" long and 13.5 wide. I've got a boat load of reclaimed poplar 4×4s that would work like a champ for a project like this. I don't remember, did you turn your screws or use a tap and die set?


----------



## Mosquito

If I were to do it again, I would probably also try for 60" long instead. I'd also make sure I leave enough room to have a dog on the far side of the leg vise. Right now my capacity between the furthest dog and the wagon is only about 38", and I'd like to have at least 48.

I did use a tap and die set. I bought the largest that I could find, which I think was 1-1/2".

-

That might help DaddyZ! lol 
I like the picture that Brit inspired me to take


----------



## CL810

I still need to install the shelf and end vise handle but I'm calling it "done" for posting purposes.



And for the Bondo -


----------



## grfrazee

What, no Bondo pose?!

*edit* I'm an idiot. Just saw what you said above your pic.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Excellent Clayton! Bet your just chompin at the bit to get the first project going on it.


----------



## richardwootton

Freaking fantastic Clayton! And a very fitting Bondo pose. Man that bench has some serious heft to it. How thick did you go on the top?


----------



## terryR

Simply over the top, Clayton! An artistic beauty from every angle…I hope you signed it.

Not sure if that pose qualifies for the full Bondo. But I love it!


----------



## richardwootton

Terry, is the full bondo sort of like the full Monty?


----------



## Slyy

Clayton, that's an awesome bench brother!! Your leg vise is still one of the most fantastic I've seen, I just absolutely dig that piece of knot you left in there. Something about that speaks to me!

Mos, still digging your awesome "rental-ready-roubo"! That's awesome work for for the space and the aid of your trusty workmate. Your build is one of the most inventive I've seen in this thread, thanks for letting us all follow along!


----------



## woodcox

it took a second but, LOL. Nice man.


----------



## CL810

Thanks guys, it sure has been fun. Looks like the shop is going to be quiet for a while. I've been told that too much has been ignored this past two months! Looks like I need to lay low and earn some points.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ahhh…..the ebb and flow. Sometimes you gotta pull back for a while after a big build.


----------



## widdle

Im trying to sucker him in to think i know what's up, then im gonna dog em due to the fact he became a duck fan prior to the stanford game…
Sorry wrong thread


----------



## john2005

Thanks for the advice on the deadman boys. I was kicking around the groove idea, but got all curious when I saw Reds tongue….that may not have come out right… Anyways, looks like there are a couple good ways to skin a cat, now to figure out which one to go by. Been leaning pretty heavy on the groove though. I will have storage underneath and will want to access.

Clayton, that thing is top notch. Very impressive. If mine turns out half that pretty I will be a happy man.


----------



## JayT

Great looking bench, Clayton!

Love the photo play with your avatar, too.


----------



## DanKrager

Cl810, that's just too purdy for a workbench. Either you gotta take it into the living room, or distress the top a bit to "break it in" and make it useful! Shoot, you might even OH$HIT with an electron burner to make some of us feel better. You know it's gonna happen sooner or later, so just do it. You know, come to think of it, if there are not pictures of it, it didn't happen right?
Enjoy that heirloom. Outstanding woodworking.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

This interest anybody ?


----------



## Sunstealer73

Which of the workbench books is best for someone who's never built one? I've always used saw horses, 2×4 tables, etc. I finally have heat in my shop and need a winter project.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sun, I'll recommend two books: Workbench Book (Landis) and Workbenches in Theory and Practice (Schwarz), the Blue One. You'll see them all in the first book, and learn the Why and How in the second.


----------



## lysdexic

^ good advice


----------



## CL810

What Smitty said


----------



## CL810

Wow Kevin - are you going to grab one? The screws alone are worth the price. 3 per bench, right?


----------



## theoldfart

I'm tempted. Gonna give the guy a call.


----------



## DanKrager

What do you call a plethora of ideas? A gaggle? A pack? A herd? A pod? A murder? A flock? A whole bunch? I'm gonna go with "whole bunch". 
Here is a whole bunch of plans for my workbench accessories. My basic bench is in yellow. Remember, it's origin is a pair of saw horses connected by a pair of 2×4s. I had a lot of panel breakdown to do and while the original bench did well for case work size panels, I realized the need for supporting smaller pieces and making repetitive, super accurate cuts while I was building the router mill. So these are on the short list in the small bucket. These are ideas from all over the place mushed around in my head for a long time. Recognize the wagon wedge insert?









DanK


----------



## waho6o9

Don't stop with your whole bunch of ideas DanK!

I'm thinking you're raising the bar to appropriate heights.

Fantastic.


----------



## TerryDowning

The wedge wagons work great!!


----------



## woodcox

Brooklyn came to my door today.









What type of adhesive for leather pads is applicable here?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I've had luck with contact cement, but it doesn't last forever… Others likely have a better (proven) solution.


----------



## Airframer

I used super glue on mine. Sanded the area to be glued with 80 grit to rough it up.. covered it with super glue and set it in a dog hole and whacked it onto a piece of leather and left it there clamped for a few minutes. Trimmed it to shape with a sharp chisel and they haven't thought about separating since.


----------



## Mosquito

I used rubber cement on mine. It works, but like Smitty says, probably won't last forever. I'll just re-glue when ever it needs it


----------



## merrill77

I used 5-min epoxy. It's holding on tight, so far.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ And he applied it four minutes ago. heh…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Awhile back Rob was wondering if if epoxy would look bad in the cracks/checks of old bench lumber. Here's a shot of Schwarz's new top. I think it looks cool.


----------



## CL810




----------



## JayT

I used 3M spray adhesive to glue leather pads to my holdfasts. If you apply a good coat to both surfaces, it creates a permanent bond. I was planning to use contact cement, but got impatient.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, thats actually Schwartz's old bench from the red book. It's about 3 + years old, he just flattened it. Seems his FOR has been moving due to moisture issues and he wanted to check his older large slab top to compare.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ Oh, well see. He's harder than me to keep up with;-)


----------



## theoldfart

'Bout the same I'd say! :0)>


----------



## woodcox

Thanks guys. I'm going to give gorilla snot a shot. It is a nightmare to clean off of cylinder blocks so it should work. If not I'll try Merrill's four minute epoxy.


----------



## DanKrager

Some Sunday afternoon relaxing fun. Beginning a "family heirloom" Christmas present. Nothing like waiting to the last minute! I've been thinking about replacing this pile of bench fillers with a double Moxon, like the sketch below. 


















I figured, the way some study all the stuff in the background, that I would preempt some questions with these photos…


















Merry Christmas!
DanK


----------



## Boatman53

Bad news Dan…. You didn't preempt anything you just opened up a can of worms. Can you 'splain the horizontal Festool rail and how you use it? I realize it is probably in the storage position now.
Jim


----------



## TheCabineteer

Mr. David, your 'ugly' bench is truly beautiful and gives me many ideas for my first self-employed project - that of building my own bench. As you can see from the profile pic, this was the only bench I had and the staff at the polytechnic (Unitec Mt Albert, Auckland, New Zealand) were funny about letting me take it away as it wasn't mine.

"There's no such thing as an off-cut!"


----------



## DanKrager

Jim, going back to the design sketch I posted in #8543 you can see the horizontal rail laying down on the bench. Yes it is in the "storage" position now. (I can get 17 channels, one HD satellite signal, and cell phone repeater with this rig!) The three hinge plates at the back edge of the bench act like a fence. I lay the rail down on the sheet goods, adjust it for parallel to the "fence" (or not, can go to almost 45 degrees) and cuts are repeatable to a high degree of accuracy. For a full sheet, I have to slide the "vertical" rail off its holder and join it to the other. If you look really closely at my fuzzy pic, you can just see one of the rail joiners sticking out of the rail. The other is slid in on the other side. I made them from two pieces of 1/8" steel held together by tiny roll pins and pushed apart to bind in the slot by tiny setscrews spreading the steel bars. Cost under $4, Festool gets up to $40 for the pair! Better than original because there's no setscrew damage to the rail and the steel screws are in steel so you don't get the chemical reaction that freezes Festools screws. Back on topic, the "vertical" rail lays down to do cuts perpendicular to the "fence". Breaking down a panel is exceedingly fast and surprisingly accurate for repeatability. Since these rails are positioned right on the pencil marks, that serves as a double check for accuracy as you are doing them.

So, in short, I have both rip and crosscut for panels at my fingertips. If for some reason they need to be removed, they slide right off the ends of the back rail, which can also be removed.

I love questions. Ask away. BTW, any of the SketchUps I do I will happily share. 
DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Inspired by Noden Adjust-a-bench and following the pattern of an adjustable bench I made for someone else, I think this has potential. Going from 28" to 42" gives quite a range, and it has to be at least as stable as the one I have now, which is fastened to the floor! It's time to replace the temporary one that's about 30 years old. It's kinda like being married…you gotta be real careful about replacing something that works!









What do you think?s A few details, like how to release the catch, how to lift it !!!!, etc, it should work out fine! 
DanK


----------



## woodcox

"It's time to replace the temporary one that's about 30 years old…..." 
Might your next *temporary* bench serve as long!
By a show of hands from the panel. Who is down for a Dank bench build?
I've thought about a wacky system of ropes and pulleys to do lifting in the shop. Over head hoist system could be handy ,Totally doable...or minions.

Cabineteer- Also, cheers to your appointed project. Any plans to keep your acquired bench around?


----------



## terryR

DanK, you build some impressive jigs, bud! I can see my new Moxon will need a vertical clamping option built in for that dovetail guide. 

The benches in SketchUp are amazing! Complex as heck, but lots to enjoy! How about an engine crane for lifting the top? Or a couple of specially mounted hydraulic jacks? Maybe 4!

Hey, in post #8559, in the last photo…how do ya keep those planes from falling out of the till?


----------



## theoldfart

Well, even I can answer that, MAGIC! :0)>


----------



## terryR

^LOL.

See, Kevin, I have lots to learn. I didn't know The Force was applicable to hand planes…duh!


----------



## theoldfart

I'm tinkin' maybe rare earth stealth mags


----------



## DanKrager

Yes, the force is with TOF. I found some Neodymium ring magnets with a countersunk screw hole, so just a quick countersink with a 1/2" Forestner bit and a screw. Done. They are remarkably effective. I was prepared to add more, but one is doing the trick with a nice "snap" when I pick up and release. The heels are sitting on a strip of leather. 
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, i'm noticing the lack of doors on that cabinet! Shame! hehe


----------



## DanKrager

Doors were in the plans, but after having it up, I realize how badly they would be in the way… I turned that every way but loose, and then turned the door idea loose. Not gonna happen till I have to move the chest to a nursing home.
DanK


----------



## dbray45

I have been doing some work on the new bench starting with the tail vise. The tail vise that I have is the Wood River end vise. It was a good price and seems to be well made. I have to get mounting screws today.

The rest is yet to come, I have a few projects that I am told must come sooner.

Here are some pics - 









The screw is not straight because it is not secured, it is just sitting in there.


----------



## mochoa

David the tail vise is looking great! I also like that big mortising chisel.


----------



## dbray45

The big mortising chisel is really special - looks a lot like a forstner bit and is held by this drill press thingy. took about a 1/2 hour.

I don't mind using a a mortise chisel but that would have taken a while - drill press was a good option, cleaned up the edges with a 1/2" mortising chisel.


----------



## mochoa

Can I get you guys opinion on something? The question is more about style than anything. Trying to improve the appearance of the shop.

I want to get rid of my old 2×4 and OSB workbench…









... and replace it with these cabinets I got for cheap. 









They are white MDF but will add a ton of much needed storage. (I will replace the plastic handles with wooden ones.

They are pretty low and I wanted them to be at joinery/caving height, about 38". 
The solution I came up with was to build an English style bench to go over them. I have a bunch of Quarter/Rift sawn Pine 2×6's I plan to use.

Here is the rough idea in sketchup. I'm sure it would work out but do you guys think it would look nice? 









*Smitty's* shop comes to mind and makes me feel inadequate. Should I paint the base cabinets and maybe even the base of the bench so they match? I kind of like the gray paint Paul Sellers uses. But then my floor is grey so I'm not sure about that color.

In other words, what would *Smitty* do?


----------



## dbray45

Myself - I would use the cabinets in the mud room or laundry room and make my own - which I did. A lot of these types of drawers cannot handle the weight of the tools that we use. I have two drawers, one for screws and one for nails, each weigh about 50 lbs, store bought drawers will not hold up.

Use these as a model to make your own - with improvements. It is tremendous practice.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

We'll see what Smitty says Maur. But I think your idea is a good one. I think it'll look alright as you have it in the sketchup. You have white walls in your shop. Wouldn't clash. Make the handles to match the bench.


----------



## chrisstef

Terra Cotta … jus sayin.


----------



## Mosquito

Little bit messy, but it looks about as happy as a bench could be…


----------



## Mosquito

*Mauricio* - I'd almost be inclined to say just build the bench on top of the cabinets, and skip building the base independent, but then that would make moving it a nightmare. Something similar to that Blum Tools bench horse thing on top of the cabinets is what I was thinking
http://www.blumtool.com/pages/benchhorse.html


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

My dog-eared copy of The Workshop Style Guide says to use two colors, one for the base of the bench and an opposing (yet complimentary) color for the cabinets. White simply will not do.

Why two? Because it doesn't appear in the sketchup diagram that the planned build will produce a single cabinet, but rather a bench with two cabinets placed (tastefully) underneath. EDIT: Use that difference and add paint for the contrast to get good visual affect.

But what do I know? (seriously. you gotta like it Maur. you have style chops!)


----------



## Airframer

I like your plan Maur. When Red was building his joinery bench I didn't really understand the need for one. Then I started cutting dovetails for my cabinet build and the need became very apparent very quickly. I think you have a solid plan and I say go for it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Just realized the terra cotta suggestion makes me laugh every time I read it. lol


----------



## mochoa

David you do have a point, these are all put together with but joints, glue and brads. I don't have anywhere else to put them so I think I'll just use them until they die.

Red my walls are kind of yellowish actually but they don't clash.

Terra cotta would look sweet… I'm going to have to sleep on that one. ;-)

Hey has anyone ever painted these kinds of cabinets? Will they take paint if I scuff sand them first?

Mos, I thought of that, at first I thought about making open boxes to support the top which would add some open storage but I didn't think it would be very strong. Also I didn't know about beating on these MDF cabinets. That's why I wanted to throw the legs in there.

Beautiful bench shot by the way, A lot of great tools in that shot!


----------



## mochoa

Smiitty thanks for the input Sir. What do you think about Tan? Kind of like the color of Birch ply, not trying to be faux wood or anything, but just to blend in? Or do you have any other suggestion on color? I like the Paul Sellers Gray but like I said my floors are badly painted grey.

Terra Cota was a shot at ScottyBYo if I'm not mistaken. 

Erik, this bench as it is now serves as a place to hacksaw metal, and it just accumulates a bunch of crap which keeps my nice working bench clear and uncluttered. But I figured I might as well make it tall to give me different options in work areas.


----------



## Airframer

Mos - that bench would look better with you on top.. Bondo pose.. your not off the hook for it yet!

Ahhh… Bench is clear for the first time in months..










Found about 80% of this stacked on top of it while cleaning..



















I think I really need to finish the tool cabinet now…


----------



## theoldfart

Need to see those doors dude, also tell the wife she did a great job and should have her own handle on LJ's.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Maur- they should paint ok if you scuff and prime. I'm seeing a shade of maroon. That would look good imo.


----------



## Mosquito

lol AF, I'm waiting on a little something something before I get on top


----------



## chrisstef

Like what Mos, foreplay?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I personally would pick something darker than birch ply tan for the base. Of the two tan strips running down the sides of the LJ frame, that would be a color in between those.

How about scrivener gold? fourth column, five from bottom

http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/for-your-home/color-gallery;jsessionid=CPvTSxZFrsBKdzbRhqyhdd4v0Cdz4cy3p1y7SW4XTHpyyMp9C8pr!-1948082994!NONE#&ce_vm=2&ce_trd=WILLIAMSBURG

or this?

http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/paint-color/wetherburnsblue

And this is definitely a matter of personal taste.

I like stronger color mostly, and anything but white unless used for effect. I like color combinations (3 or more, of which finished wood is one) vs. the monochromatic look. And I like it when a number of colors are used / repeated throughout a room (or scene, or house, etc. etc.) That last bit is right out of the Style Guide. 

One thing for sure is, I'm not afraid of color. My 1898 house (authentic wood siding, trim, millwork, etc.) has three colors (and needs painting this summer). It was white when we bought the place, and I hated it. Now, I love it.

I've painted a kitchen / living space in a 'clubhouse' with a total of eight different colors and it was a blast. Here's a before and after of just the kitchen in that place:



















So yeah, I have fun with color. My house is also full of natural wood finishes, though. We stripped and refinished many hundreds of feet of 9" baseboard with moulidng. Alll the doors. Window Trim. Etc. Love the stuff.

Don't know how to wrap up this long post, 'cept to repeat do what you want and it'll be fine


----------



## merrill77

This is probably worth mentioning: have you considered how the color of your bench (and future workshop fixtures) play into lighting in your shop?

My shop has two windows at one end - they face north and yield little light. As such, I've moved toward painting everything in my shop white, unless it is real wood (also excluding the floor). The walls are white, as are most of my cabinets. That helps keep the shop bright with fewer lights and will also play more neutrally when I'm experimenting with finish colors on projects.


----------



## TerryDowning

Terra Cotta … jus sayin. - Stef

^ Just realized the terra cotta suggestion makes me laugh every time I read it. lol -Smitty

Terra Cota was a shot at ScottyBYo if I'm not mistaken.  - Maur

I thought the color was Pumpkin…

Maur, Go for the Rainbow!!


----------



## mochoa

"foreplay" hahaha. Well played Stef.

Scrivner Gold, that's not too bad, I kind of like it! Hmm but that blue is nice to. The tough part about choosing a color is that you have to like it a lot, especially if you are going to paint everything to make uniform. 
That's what's kind of nice about that gold color, it's kind of a wood tone so it blends in with the wood of the benches. You don't have to paint everything to match
You really brighten up that kitchen, the after looks great. The wood kind of looked nice though, had kind of a spalted look to it.

Merrill, that is also an important consideration, you can't beat white for reflecting light.

Terry, I'm not sure those colors are approved in "The Workshop Style Guide" ;-)


----------



## mochoa

This blog post from Stefang is a great example of how paint can really change to look of repurposed cabinets and make everything blend together nicely.
http://lumberjocks.com/stefang/blog/38575


----------



## Sylvain

an "app" to test the effect before painting for real:
https://www.ral-farben.de/app-icolours.html?&L=1


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop




----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I love Mike's use of color in that post, Maur. He did a great job, for sure!


----------



## jmartel

Is there going to be workshop fashion police running around here now?


----------



## chrisstef

There's been a ban on crocs for a while now JMart. 
Sweans (sweatpant jeans) are only acceptable on Sundays during football lseason.
Tank tops and bare midriffs are strictly forbidden.
Cut off sleeves are being moderated on a case by case basis.


----------



## bandit571

For those with low overheads ( like a Dungeon) sometimes a Hard Hat is needed…

I'd do a bondo pose on my bench, but…..can't get my fat rear end up on it….

Besides, it is covered in tools…( the bench, not my rearend)

maybe get lazy…. and let the bench on top???


----------



## theoldfart

No CROC'S? balderdash! harumph! poppycock!


----------



## jmartel

I have a pair of crocs I wear in the shop. Easy to slip on and off, more comfortable, and I can hose them down when they fill up with sawdust. They don't leave the shop though.


----------



## mochoa

Thats cool Sylvain, I'll have to give that a shot. Thanks.

I'm not going to touch the Corc debate…


----------



## theoldfart

AW, come on Maur. You gonna let that Stef bwute push you around?


----------



## Airframer




----------



## theoldfart

Harsh!!


----------



## mochoa

LOL


----------



## TerryDowning




----------



## mochoa

See what you started…. lol


----------



## theoldfart

Maur, remember this is a group that has "manliness identity issues" :0)>


----------



## Airframer

Feel better now?


----------



## theoldfart

Sort of


----------



## richardwootton

Maur, too bad you don't live closer, I've got a pine bench top laminated and flattened ready for use that I'd gladly give you once my other bench top is laminated. And I might be tempted to go with a lighter olive color for the cabinets which I think would look good with the light yellow walls etc…

Mos, what kind of wood did you use for your bench?

Airframer, there's no need to build a tool cabinet, just send those bad boys to me and save yourself the trouble! Hell, I'm such a nice guy I'll even through in on shipping!


----------



## Hammerthumb

"maybe get lazy…. and let the bench on top???"

Too funny Bandit!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Strong work there AF. Thank you for towing the line.

No Crocs, Kevin. We are just trying to help.


----------



## theoldfart

Snif, ok, if you say so! Where's my Berks?


----------



## richardwootton

^LOL


----------



## BillWyko

Sorry it took so long to reply on how I deal with a big, fat chop. I added a piece of Teflon type plastic for the screws to ride on under the bench between the screws & underside. My chop is 4"x7"x32" and smooth as silk. 

What are Crocks? LOL


----------



## Slyy

Well something else I've learned about woodworking and benches from this thread: crocs are right out! (Quickly and quietly disposes of crocs in the neighbors trash can).

On another note, not that I didn't know it already, but this is not an acceptable manner or substitute for a proper woodworking bench or vise for holding wooden objects:









So I feel more of a push to around to making a dang bench already! I was out rust hunting earlier today and came across these two examples of a wooden screw, the first in a parallel screw clamp and the other in what "might" be an end vise perhaps? The price for either was about $20 any LJ's here think either might be useful and worth the asking price?


----------



## CL810

That second one has wagon vise written all over it. What is the diameter of the screw?


----------



## Mosquito

*Richard* - I used Red Oak for most of it, hard maple for the end caps, and rear rail for the tool well, and pine for the bottom of the tool well. The hub of the screws are hard maple, and the garter plates are black walnut. I used hard maple for the bench dogs as well. I think that covers everything


----------



## Boatman53

Slyy You just need an upgrade on the jaw protectors. These slip over the jaw beam, it keeps them upright and you don't need three hands to clamp something. Everything else I was going to comment on is so far back it's amazing. Just wish I had as much time as you guys. 
I need to clean my shop too.










Jim


----------



## Boatman53

I forget, who needed the high density plastic for the vise screw? Let me know I've got a ton of it 3/4" thick. I gotta clean my shop. 
Jim


----------



## woodcox

Thanks HM and Jim. I used a cutting board for my screws.


----------



## Mosquito

I was thinking about getting some UHMW for the lower screw in my leg vise to ride on. It sometimes racks, which just requires a little tap with the foot.


----------



## Boatman53

How much do you need Mos? Anybody else?
Jim


----------



## Slyy

Clayton - didn't meSure it but looked about inch and a quarter. Maybe worthwhile grab perhaps.

Jim - that's a slick idea I just hate my general work bench for anything wood. I have to almost stand on my toes to get anything like a good height for sawing or anything. The bench works great for everything else, just not woodworking related projects.
And agree, the pace of this thread sometimes is quite astonishing!


----------



## Mosquito

Jim, the stretcher I'd be putting it on is 10.25"x1.5", roughly, so anywhere from 8-10" would be perfect


----------



## mochoa

Richard, to bad indeed. You should keep that top though; I bet it would make a great assembly table or sharpening station. Maybe cut it in half and use if two mobile work surfaces.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Just checking in to see if Stef posted any progress shots of his bench build. Guess not. 
.
.
.
.
Carry on.


----------



## chrisstef

Been too busy with this:


----------



## TerryDowning

I feel so much safer now.

Stef, you're my hero!!!


----------



## richardwootton

Jake, I'd pay 20 bucks for that screw in a heart beat! Hmmm something doesn't sound right about that statement. I'm with CL810, that thing has wagon vise written all over it.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Stef, for all you do! LOL

Jim, thanks for those jaw protector tips…love the big red vice. Looks like a pile of jam chucks multiplying on the bench…trouble…


----------



## DKV

Crocs, sometimes ya just gotta laugh…


----------



## DanKrager

I couldn't decide if this was furniture or a workbench, but Shop Notes called it a "Fold down finishing station", so I'll put it here. It certainly doesn't have the heft and hubris of a 72×24x3" workbench with 5" legs, but it has a certain pnash of it's own, as in "Oi! pnash, you spikey haired 4 eyed twat grow a proper mans beard"! My son is a rail fanner and details his stock superbly, but in a tiny apartment there just isn't much room to do it well. This can sit on a table or mount on a wall (see the French cleat) with two screws (furnished…). It's designed to be portable, but I'll let him decide what kind of handles to put on it. It weighs almost 60 lbs. The new style neodymium magnets look a lot like painters tape. I don't have a picture of it, but a large panel of foam board can curve gently from door to door for a clean photographic back ground too. 
Merry Christmas!








































DanK


----------



## Mosquito

That looks sweet Dan. I could definitely see where that'd be useful, and more so in an apartment


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Dan, that's pretty awesome. Thanks for sharing. I might do something like that, too. I have the perfect space for it and once I've become moderately not terrible with hand tools, I'll want something like that for finishing guitars.


----------



## Mosquito

Well, I said I was waiting for something before I did my bondo pose… Though I haven't applied any finish yet, it's been in regular use for a few months now, so I suppose it deserves the finishing touch to the adventure.









(It takes like 3 weeks to get something ePacket from China!)

And for the "real" one








(The bench makes me look taller lol)


----------



## theoldfart

I like, great courage, sassy pose!


----------



## Mosquito

I don't think I do that pose quite as well as she does, but I tried lol


----------



## theoldfart

Hey, just need to add a little 'tude dude and I like her shoes a little better too!


----------



## Airframer

HAH! I knew you wouldn't disappoint!

My wife was wondering when the "Pinups of the Workbench" calendar was going to come out lol… I told her prolly not going to happen ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

Her curves are a little nicer, and pants a little tighter too Kevin lol

Eric hmmm your wife might have an idea there… lol


----------



## chrisstef

Awesome status achieved Mos!

Youre left butt cheek doesnt compare all though.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nope, left cheek of Mos remarkably unsatisfying when compared to Bondo Girl…

But a worthy pose nonetheless. And totally worth the weeks it took to get the blue prop via slow boat from China!


----------



## terryR

Awesome, Mos, simply awesome! Both shots are calendar worthy! LOL.
And a nice bench!

Edit: Dan, that's a great build! Looks very useful…I'm on the lookout for some of those cool magnets now…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

LOL. Well done Mos.

You are now cool enough to be my friend.


----------



## Mosquito

Just want to point out Mauricio's post from way back
http://lumberjocks.com/replies/665678

hehe

By the way, went through the thread, and we only have 10 who've done the Bondo pose, so we'd need two more to make Eric's wife a calendar lol (though Red and I both had 2).

Speaking of 2, Red, I don't believe you ever had a bondo on your joinery bench?


----------



## Airframer

Well… aren't we delinquent in a couple people? I don't recall one from Mauricio and Smitty is WAY over due ;-)


----------



## CL810

Mos - you da Man! er, uhhh, you da heshe!!! A LJ classic. I suspect that pic will have a long life.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

An attractive bench pose from Smitty:


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Joinery bench will be done in a month or two if you'd like another shot of this freckled Ogre.

Also looking back to when Stef was supposedly building a bench. I recall saying that I would talk endless crap if I built 3 commissions and a joinery bench before he finished his bench…..
So, be ready for that.


----------



## DanKrager

I love that, Mos. Worth the wait. 
DanK


----------



## shipwright

Aw come on! Hot young chicks are over rated. I think you look way better on the bench than Bondo Girl.

...... BTW, I have this great deal on some waterfront land in the Yukon Territory, lots of peace and quiet and hardly ever too hot to work outside. ............ 

You are a man of courage at the very least, good one!


----------



## Airframer

Here you go Smitty.. Fixed it


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Excellent. Check that one off the list.  But can you add blue hair?


----------



## Slyy

Haha EXCELLENT Mos!!! Heels and I wouldnta been able to tell a difference!!

Richard - yeah really thinking about going back and picking that little baby up!


----------



## Mosquito

lol thanks guys. Wonder what the reaction will be once the significant other sees it!


----------



## Airframer

But can you add blue hair?

Of course! how could I forget 










Honestly.. if you were to take a self pic i would probably be disappointed that you weren't in fact… Snoopy lol.


----------



## mochoa

Legendary move Mos! Much respect!

I now know better than to throw the gauntlet down when Mos is in the room, he aint scared of nothing!

I'll do mine sooner or later. Lol. Just got done with a big project so the bench is now clear so who knows…


----------



## AnthonyReed

Outstanding Mos! You're my hero. So perfect. Well played. 

Thanks man.


----------



## woodcox

"Today I didn't even have to use my A.K.. I gotta say it was a good day. " 
Hardcore Mos!


----------



## john2005

*Mos*, hat's off to you buddy! You set the bar high!

Valiant effort *Smitty*. I to expect that you are in fact Snoopy.


----------



## DKV

My bench.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You're standing at the backside of a left-handed bench, TJ?


----------



## DKV

I am left handhanded and Joseph was getting ready to use the vise so I moved to the back side to make room for him.


----------



## Mosquito

lol just havin' some fun!


----------



## terryR

'Nuthing wrong with good clean fun! Love the Snoopy on Smitty's bench!

Hey, Mos, can I borrow the blue wig?


----------



## donwilwol

can I borrow the blue wig?

I'd rather borrow the blue haired lady, no offense intended Mos


----------



## CL810

Good choice Don!


----------



## Mosquito

I would agree with Don, I would have rather had that on my bench than me in a wig lol

Terry, you sure can… I certainly don't need it anymore lol


----------



## Mosquito

I would agree with Don, I would have rather had that on my bench than me in a wig lol

Terry, you sure can… I certainly don't need it anymore lol


----------



## DanKrager

You can say that again, Mos.
DanK


----------



## yuridichesky

Catching up: Mos, most entertaining bondo shot ever!


----------



## RGtools

Yesterday










Today










I would rather use the hand plane, but I did not glue up this lamination and it was WAY too out of whack to do all by hand (1/2" of twist from corner to corner…which is why I ripped the slab in half to save material…by hand)


----------



## richardwootton

Ryan, were you drinkin' on the job? That glue up did look pretty rough. Is this the bench you're building for your grandpa?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sure passed up an opportunity to give those pipes a workout Ryan


----------



## RGtools

It's Grampa's bench. He did the top, and I am fixing it. He always wanted a real bench but never had the skill or space to get one done. He mostly did Intarsia (very good at it too), but always wanted to get a bit of furniture stuff done too. I would like to help him where I can. I tried to give him some advice on the best way to get the lam together given what tools he was willing to use…but you try to get an 85 year old to follow your advice.

For example:










Note the location of the safety glasses I tried to get him to wear while he was helping me out.


----------



## john2005

That's awesome. 85 and having fun.


----------



## woodcox

Oh yeah…..we're definitely going to need a bondo pose with pops in the same attire. He's gonna give Mos a run for his money. Better start warming him up to the idea soon Ryan. Has he seen Roubo girl yet? 
Great to see him out there making it happen with you. Your position is enviable to a lot of us I'm sure.


----------



## Mosquito

lol I'd like to see that too ^


----------



## chrisstef

Hell yea. Gramps has got splinters that are older than you Ryan. Gramps do what gramps wants!


----------



## terryR

Great stuff, Ryan! Thanks for sharing! Your grandpa is lucky he doesn't have to wear glasses to see the job! 

Is that your shop or His? Awesome place! Love the 8/4 lumber stickered everywhere…


----------



## Slyy

That's awesome you two working together on that project RG!!! Oughta be some good clean fun working in that bench build for sure!! Keep up the good work.


----------



## mochoa

Thats awesome RG, what a blessing to get that shop time with your grandfather. Many of us have never had that oportunity.


----------



## RGtools

It's mine on paper Terry, but that's about it . We share which has it's up's and downs. Right now is definitly an up.

The lumber is my stash, I work big timbers (the elm you see is actually 16/4), he works offcuts, so that part of our dynamic works very well.

*Question for the panel:*

I am not going to rejoin the top peices. I think this is a great oppurtunity to do a split top with a removable peice that can act as a stop, ala Bob Rozieski (spelling?). One of the slabs is still a bit twisted (16th from corner to corner). On a normal lam, I would not mind planing that all to perfect by hand, but the grain here is kind of gnarly. I am VERY tempted to just run both slabs through the thicknes planer and bolt them down to the frame….too much tension to take out with hardware? The slabs will finish slighly more than 2.5".


----------



## grfrazee

I think you'll find that the top will move more than 1/16" just due to seasonal affects. I would just fasten it down and take the dimensional changes as they come.

The split top is useful since you can use the bench for clamping when you remove the divider. I did it for mine and haven't regretted it. Also, you'll probably only use the front 10-12" of the bench at one time so having a break won't really affect anything.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Schwarz put some copies of the first bench book (Blue one) 50% off. Get it if you don't got it.

http://www.lostartpress.com/product_p/bk-wb.htm


----------



## AnthonyReed

Cool shot of Gramps Ryan. 85 and still acting/looking stout; we should all be so lucky.

Good looking out BRK. Thank ya.


----------



## Slyy

Thanks for the heads up Red! Gonna go over there and grab one!


----------



## RGtools

The best you are going to get is a blue beanie:



















Already a fan of the split top design.


----------



## woodcox

^


----------



## ScaleShipWright

that blue cap calls for a bench-pose!


----------



## CL810

Cool stuff Ryan


----------



## AnthonyReed

Ha! Right on!


----------



## CL810

Work in progress and I'm looking for input from Moxon vise owners/users.










I've had this piece of wood for a long time. I thought I'd found its purpose. But I'm starting to wonder. Right now the chops are 2-7/8" thick and I can certainly reduce that.

I'm also wondering about how much pressure the vise needs for general joinery. Right now I'm thinking not enough to flex 1" hard maple which is the narrowest point in the live edge.

Thoughts?


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, if it flexes I'd say there is so much pressure that you are probably denting your work. Also the thick front piece will get in the way of angle sawing I think. A lot of these vises have angled/chamfered fronts. My 2 cents


----------



## richardwootton

Andy, I like the Live edge moxon! What kind of hardware did you use?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

No way you should have to worry about maple holding work; there is more than enough there to hold / clamp stuff securely.


----------



## Thrakintosh

Here's mine. Built as part of the Wood Whisperer Guild Build over the course of several months: December 2011 to September 2012. Ash is the primary. Walnut the secondary.










Some additional photos here.


----------



## donwilwol

Very nice Adam


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yessir, sweet lookin bench there Adam. I like that leg vise.

Clayton- Imo the right thickness of a hardwood moxon chop is somewhere between 1-2". Mines 2" thick oak….and it doesn't need to be thick. Doesn't flex at all, and it's a bit heavy to release. The suede really helps with the grip. 
I'm pretty sure 1" thick material would flex though. So….somewhere between there;-)


----------



## kkaiser

i bought a solid core flat door and put it over the railing so of my front porch,,, power stuff scattered form front yard to back yard,,,just no where to put up decent sized building,,,


----------



## AnthonyReed

Damn, that is a fantastic bench Clayton.

Beautiful Adam. Wonderful job.


----------



## Pezking7p

They all technically flex; clamping force is related to how much the board flexes. A 1" board will flex about 8 times more than a 2" board, as a guess. So you get a lot of bang for your buck by going thicker.

Adam, looks nice. What's the middle strip going down the center? Is that for clamping…?


----------



## yuridichesky

Adam, superb bench!


----------



## Thrakintosh

Hi Pez,

Sorta… It is a removable stop that can be pulled up out of its slot , shifted left or right and rested on the upper leg stretchers so it is proud of the bench top by ½"or so. Take a look the the Benchcrafted site for a more concise explanation.


----------



## Slyy

Great looking bench Adam!


----------



## terryR

Very nice bench there, Adam! Ash and Walnut together are one of my favs!

Clayton, goodness gracious, looks like a veneer press instead of a Moxon! LOL. My current rig has a front chop 2" thick, and it's just too much mass IMO. All that has to be moved when you turn the handles. I love the live edge, but looks like a problem if you thin the back edge of the front chop to loose mass. I would plane down the front edge of the front chop, trying to keep as much live edge as possible, and mimic that shape along the remainder of the front, thus creating the bevel to let ya get in close with the saws.

Gonna re-do my Moxon since I just got some BC hardware in the post…no mo' threaded rod from HomeD!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Adam, that's a beautiful bench for sure. Hope you've added the "smackdown" tag to it so the bench appears in the gallery!


----------



## CL810

Wow *Adam*, that's a great bench. One of the better "Bondo" poses as well!

Thanks for comments guys. *TerryR*, I think you laid out the plan.


----------



## RGtools

Love the live edge Clayton. You will do when you gut half blind dovtails.


----------



## richardwootton

Clayton, what hardware are you using for your Moxon? Sorry, I accidentally called you Andy…


----------



## CL810

Richard, I went with veneer screws.


----------



## CL810

Here's how it came out with the moving jaw at two inches. Lost a lot of the live edge but it needed to be done so it's all good.


----------



## terryR

Looks great, Clayton. Sorry about all the missing live edge. It can be replicated if you get bored.  Google…

Wow, looks like you have about 3 feet between screws! Awesome!


----------



## richardwootton

Adam, that Ash and Walnut does look super nice together! Beautiful bench man!


----------



## CL810

Deceptive photo Terry. Only 21".


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ that's what she said.


----------



## theoldfart

Only? Red!!!!!!


----------



## Slyy

The Red and TOF show will be here all night folks, don't forget to tip your waitress!!


----------



## bandit571

Any relatiion to the Bob and Tom Show??


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I can't help myself sometimes;-)


----------



## Slyy

Bandit, if there were I doubt Bob and Tom would come close to acknowledging any relationship!


----------



## Armandhammer

I agree. I'm new to all this but I'm far more attracted to benches that show lots of use. All that beautiful wood is living on, not just being wasted.


----------



## dbray45

Finally making progress on my workbench.

Still have to put the ends on the top and then cleanup and finish the top, have the legs jointed on two sides and should plane these tonight for square. Then I have to cut the dovetails in the legs, top and foot pieces. From there, I cut the stretchers and put in the lower shelf.

The problem that I am going to run into - I will be moving in 5 years and this will have to come apart to be moved. The top weighs about 125-150 now, once I get this thing together, will weigh a good 250-300lbs, the stairs with the weight of the people moving it, will not hold up.










On the end vise, it looks like I need a shim in there, this is a "later" thing.


----------



## mochoa

David, that thing is looking sweet! Is it oak?

I have another bench in the oven too! No style points on this one. It's a cross between Paul Sellers and Mathias Wandel. 









Its going to be 42" tall at this point, I will probably cut it down gradually to somewhere around 38" (I'm 6'2")


----------



## TravisH

I got mine done about a month ago but never got around to posting pictures (actually working in the shop). I first started off thinking I wanted to try to make something that I would be proud to display in my house. Was drooling over all the many benches I studied on the site and all the great odds and ends added.

I looked at my wood stash and hated to use a lot of it on something I plan on beating to crap over and on a bench that very likely I would want to redo after using it and finding its flaws. Also part of the reason of building the bench was to free up space in my small workshop. Previously I had an L shaped 6 ft x 8 foot particle board bench featured in one of the wood magazines and saved odds and ends from projects taking up way to much space. I incorporated some of that wood into the project and unknowingly made my wife happy. My daughters old loft bed and a part of the changing table/drawers we used with all three kids. Not exactly nice looking (I find it ugly) but none the less the wife pops up in the shop all the time now and my daughter (12) likes that I used it.

I laminated two oak butcher block tops (Menards ~ 70 bucks each) and attached it to the 4×4 top frame. Carrying over the budget build theme (reusing materials likely destined to a burn pile) I hit up grizzly for a press screw and lee valley for a shoulder vise screw to complete my project. Ended up wrapping the top in some red oak and a few coats of boiled linseed oil.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Travis, I like it!

Those Menards tops get my attention every time I pass them in the store. Good solution!


----------



## dbray45

Maur - yes, QS red oak (actually a black oak in the red oak family). When the top is cleaned up, it will look much better. It is a 2" thick slab.


----------



## dbray45

Smitty - I am doing feet similar to yours in the picture except that I cut back the bottom at the center to give them pads. My floor is uneven and having them go straight across would make the bench wobble.


----------



## mochoa

David, no pink paint I hope. ;-)


----------



## dbray45

Ahhhh - that would be a no!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Looking great David.

Nicely done Travis. I really like your wagon vise.


----------



## dbray45

wagon vise is nice


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

David, your benchtop looks incredible thusfar. If the base matches up, you'll definitely have a winner.

Those pics were for Travis, of his bench, but he's got them working in his post now so I've edited them out of my post. And it wouldn't be right if I didn't comment on the pink paint: I'd have to repaint that base, I think. heh


----------



## TravisH

I don't like the base at all. Initially I was going to use some old barn beams but hated to use it on a bench I figured I will redo down the road. I ended up reusing scrap stuff and was just going to paint it black but my wife came out to the shop and got all sentimental and now I have very ugly table legs. Adding that drawers made it even worse in my opinion.


----------



## dbray45

Sorry Smitty, all the picts kind of ran together and saw that you posted some of them.

If someone likes pink on their bench, its all good with me.

The hard part is yet to come. So far, the tail vise has been a pain in the butt, but mortising the legs into the top at the front, it is 4" thick and doing a dovetail - I am not feeling the love. Nobody said this was going to be easy. If I build up the back for strength, it will be the same. I am going to make the tenons on the legs first, then do the mortises.


----------



## yuridichesky

Pink base + blue wig → gonna be great bondo shot


----------



## AnthonyReed

Yuri makes a good point.


----------



## mochoa

The bench looks great Travis. That sounds like a great deal on the top parts.

We will call the base shabby chic. ;-)


----------



## CL810

David that is a beefy looking bench - sweet.

Mauricio, I guess I'm going to have to research what a Sellers/Wandel hybrid will look like. Blog?

Travis that Menard's deal sounds awesome. Solid looking bench.


----------



## richardwootton

David, what are the dimensions of your bench top?


----------



## Slyy

David looking great so far!!


----------



## Captain_Bob

Hi everyone, Im new here. I found this forum while looking for ideas for my work bench. I am fairly new to woodworking, now that I have a little time I thought I would get into it a little more. I read through much of this thread to get some ideas. Its been great.

I decided to build my take on a Roubo bench on a budget. I have started building the top out of some 2×4's. So far its coming nicely, I have a piece of Padauk that I will be adding to the center for an accent piece. i think I will also build the leg vice and end cap out of it as well.

Right now I have 2 pieces glued up and just rested the padauk in the middle to see how it looks.


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## CL810

Welcome aboard Captain! Top looks good - I like the padauk. What are your plans for the base?


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## Slyy

First of all, welcome to LJ's!! No bench myself yet, but this is a great place to find inspiration for sure!
Nice looking bench so far there as well sir! That accent piece looks like it'd flow well, any thought to making it into a recessed tool well?


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## BigRedKnothead

Travis- Nice job. The finger-jointed oak tops at menards have gotten my interest at times. Makes for a great benchtop I'm sure. 
But if my wife painted anything in my shop pink….she would see actual steam coming out of my ears;-)

Welcome Captain Bob. Your off to a nice start.


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## mochoa

Welcome to the workbench thread Bob. Its looking great so far!

Clayton, Matthias basically makes an English style workbench with simple construction lumber joined with large dowels instead of tenons.






I did the same thing but doubled up the thickness of the legs, which is what you see in the clamps, more like a Paul Sellers workbench.

You can see the dowels below circled. I did it a little different by angling the dowels which makes it kind of a dovetail joint.


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## Mosquito

Smitty, if you're that tempted by the menard tops, right now here in MN they're running their 11% off rebate sale, and it's even good for gift cards… buy a giftcard for 11% off, then go shopping and get another 11% off :-D (what Emilie and I did for a bunch of stuff for the house)

And Mauricio, I like the angling of the dowels. That's how I put the back in my traveling plane till, and the ledge on the music stand I made my mom. Works great.


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## dbray45

The top slab is 18" x 5' x 2". Across the front I have a true 2×4 that is glued and pocket screwed to the top. Just behind that, I doubled the thickness of the top with one of the slab's offcuts. I did this because with the holes and vises, this is the weakest part of the bench.

I will continue the 2×4 on the ends - since the top is QS, the movement will be vertical, not horizontal, which will be pocket screwed but not glued and be outside of the tool tray.

I squared up the leg posts last night, they all measure 3 1/2" wide by 3 1/4" - 3 1/2" the other direction. Now, I am looking at what is best to set these posts into the feet and top.

Should I use a double tenon, a tenon and dovetail, or something else? I will need to take this apart in the future but it has to hold up.

What are your thoughts, I am laying them out tonight.


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## Captain_Bob

Thanks everyone. I am still undecided on how I want to build the legs. I am thinking making a mortise and dovetail through the top, but Im not sure yet. I think I will glue up some 2×6's and make them 5×5 or so. I like the idea of big beefy legs.

As far as a tool well, I don't think that is a good idea for me. It would just fill up with junk and would get in the way. I did consider it though, I never thought building a workbench that there would be so many decisions to make.


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## dbray45

Capt - seems that we are both working on our benches at the same time.

Your top is awesome and looks really nice so far.

This is my 4th or 5th bench, could be more, and each one was different and all did different things. This one is different and will be with me for a long time,


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## CL810

Shop log sighting! Thanks Maur.


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## mochoa

Last leg in the clamps. Now i need to find more quartersawn 2X6"s, i probably should have saved these for the top, especially if i end up paimting the base.
.


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## AnthonyReed

Good eye Clayton!


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## mochoa

Got to have a shop log!


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## richardwootton

Maybe there should be a "Shop Log of Your Dreams" thread…

Mine isn't so much a shop log as it is a shop piece of firewood.


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## richardwootton

I have no freaking idea how to get the effing photo to be the right way up!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Too nice of a shop log pic to leave on it's side…


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## richardwootton

Thanks Smitty!


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## john2005

K fill me in, what in the world is the shop log? Do I need one? Do I have one? Where do I get one? Can I still be cool without one? Need some info here fellas. Thx


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## CL810

Can I still be cool without one?

Well yes, kinda cool, just not Mauricio cool.


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## mochoa

John it is certainly a goal you should work towards in your woodworking journey, it is indispensable as a stool chopping block for your axe or machete, a weight for flat glue ups etc.. I got mine out of the woods from behind my house.

Happy new year yall! Love you mo fos.


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## BigRedKnothead

Back at ya Maur.

I'm makin' a better jaw for my end vise. I'll show that Clayton;-)


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## theoldfart

The only jaw i see in the works is Red's lower jaw and that Templeton's stuff of his! :0) Hippy Newt Year ya'll!!


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## Boatman53

Happy New Year my friends!
Jim


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## john2005

Happy new year to you guys too!

I may actually have a shop log then, ie dead weight. Currently in the form of an unfinished benchtop. Does that qualify? Not so sure about the whole machete chopping on it though. I wanna break it in someday but that's not what I had in mind


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## terryR

Happy, Happy Everyone!

For some reason, all my shop's logs get split in 1/2 and the ends sealed with glue. That lovely log on Richard's bench would be in serious trouble in my shop! I'd just keep nudging it closer to the bandsaw…LOL.


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## CL810

I'm makin' a better jaw for my end vise. I'll show that Clayton;-)

And that folks is why this thread is named Smackdown! And based on what I saw of dbray's bench (post #8728) I'm turning this into a tag team event - take over David!


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## BigRedKnothead

^Course I'm goofin, but your bench got me thinking about a couple things I could improve on mine. I show you guys what I came up with in a day or two.

It is fun that there's always one or two bench builds going on.


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## CL810

^Course I'm goofin

Sure you were. ;-)


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## Airframer

Well, she is starting out 2014 as a proper workbench. Even has a coffee ring on it somewhere lol. I think I might go over it with some 80 grit on the ROS just to scrub off some of the crud..


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## DanKrager

Scraper, Eric. Scraper.
DanK


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Current State of the Bench:










And Eric, you need to reconsider that plan. Paragraph 7 of Section 2, Article C of the Workbench Code of Conduct expressly forbids sandpaper on benchtops… Just sayin…


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## Airframer

Even if it was to remove metal dust? You sure there isn't a clause for that somewhere?


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## DanKrager

Wait a minute! Nail pullers??? 
Paragraph 1, Section 5, Article A of the Workshop Code of Ethics (a basic) prohibits the use of NA NNNA, nails, doesn't it? Please tell me that is for cosmetic use only…
DanK


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## DanKrager

Oh, I get it. It's one of your restoration projects.
DanK


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## Airframer

Fine.. Scraper it is lol… Just need to get my #81 cleaned up and sharp now I suppose..


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## DanKrager

Well, if there's metal dust or sand paper residue, you'll likely have to sharpen again. Use up the blade as is, then sharpen…maybe more mileage that way? 
DanK


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## Airframer

The blade is as it sat in whatever barn it came from for the last 50 years or so. No sharpness left there to use as is just a good layer of rust. Got it in some evaporust now.. should have it good to go by tomorrow (maybe)..


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## john2005

So not to kick the dead shop log but I was cleaning up tonight and look what I found. The 24" framing square is there so you can get a handle on how big this LILAC stump is. 14"ish at the base and about 22" to where it begins to branch out. Been holding this guy for a year now to figure out what to do with it. Ideas?










For those who don't know lilac is a light colored wood, fairly dense, tight grain patterns and incredibly temperamental. I had wanted to make some bowls out of it but A. my lathe isn't near big enough and B. With its temperamental nature I didnt want to make something that would fly apart. 
You can see the smaller log next to it, also from the same bush, is cracked end to end. First thing I did was encase the whole shooting match in wax, but no dice on that one.


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## Armandhammer

I need to go through and read all these pages. Plans are to grab a few more tools and a heap of lumber and start on my first work bench. Probably nothing nice for the first one. Just some pine, construction grade lumber unless I can find something a little nicer from a saw mill somewhere in the area. Maybe work on some basic joints. Main goal, something super sturdy and functional to get started on then make something nice later down the road when I'm ready.


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## BigRedKnothead

^ Sounds good A&H. If they have southern yellow pine joists in your area, you'll like those better than the softer pines. Let 'em dry, rip 'em down, and go to town.


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## Armandhammer

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll see what I can find. I know the big box stores have just white pine. Not sure about the actual lumberyards, if I can even find one in the area. I doubt they ship it in and yellow pine doesn't grow around here, so I might be out of luck.

I may be able to get Poplar for cheap which I think is slightly harder than pine. Not sure how appropriate it would be for a work bench. I honestly don't know much about wood at this point…another of the many topics I need to start learning about.


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## BigRedKnothead

I see. SYP isn't native here in Iowa either, but the building supply places have it because its rated differently for joists. It's way stiffer than white pine and you can space them farther etc. That recommendation really comes from Chris Schwarz's Blue bench book we refer to often on here.

Poplar would make a decent bench. At the same time, any decent wood that you can find reasonably in your area…..should be good for a bench;-)


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## shipwright

Don't forget plywood. You can actually build a very nice bench from the stuff I understand.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I've seen great great things RE: plywood benches. One here on LJs that was particularly well done.


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## Armandhammer

Well, honestly I was/am thinking about a ply/mdf top for a utilitarian work bench. Just something to get me going and when I build some skills and get my tool inventory a little more up to snuff, going for a nicer solid wood bench. I figured some heavy 4×4 legs with a laminated 1 1/2" plywood top would make for a pretty robust bench. Something with a frame that'll let me attach a vise or two of some sort. I'm looking through this thread…got about 500 posts read so far. The more I read, the less I want to build such a bench…lol…but the thing is, I could never pull off the benches that are being posted here…not yet. Skill and money are both in short supply.


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## shipwright

I just built a small plywood workbench for my winter shop in Az. I designed it specifically for people who were starting out and didn't have high end skills or tools. It comes with a very detailed sketchup model and an equally detailed build blog. Maybe this one is for you.


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## waho6o9

Shipwright's bench is perfect for you A&H.

You can carve A&H on your leg vise and make whatever you want.


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## BigRedKnothead

Decided to give my roubo some new skin for the new year. 








-









-
She's all nakies:








-
Danish oil…purdy. The dark spots are all the original tearout;-) I'm a little better about the now.


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## yuridichesky

Red, I see you've got a bench duck. What do you say about one?


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## Airframer

Is there a time of year (temp wise) that is better to flatten a bench in? Does it matter? I was thinking about that yesterday and now I am curious.


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## bandit571

Tried out a leg vise/Crochet combo









And then, just the vise









As for a jointer use









As for the Heft & Hubris jointer, it was hanging out with the grandkids









24" long, about 1892ish Stanley #31.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Good shots all, Gents!

Current state of the bench:


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## chrisstef

My bench is home. Waiting for me. All square and terrible to work with. I should probably build a new one but lack motivation to do such. So I went to the doctor and asked him what was wrong with me? Why cant I just wrap my head around it and build the darn thing? Here's what he said .


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## Airframer

Listen to the Doc.. He seems to know what he is talking about ;-)


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## BigRedKnothead

Oh Steffy boy.

Eric- I thought the same thing as I started to flatten my bench. But, I'm not sure it would matter on a proper benchtop. Seasonal movement should only make it expand or contract. Not cup or twist.

Yuri- I really like the bench duck. Quickest/easiest holdfast I've used. No knob to thread down. Shoot, don't even need a mallet.


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## RickRinger

BigRedKnothead - Gawd that is so sexy. I'm in lust with your bench. Wow.


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## Slyy

Stef - Keep in mind they call it a "practice" for a reason, but your Doc might have a good point.


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## Slyy

Well I've certainly read this thread long enough, and commented enough times that I feel I need to contribute a bench progress pic of some fashion. Have no specific bench build plans as of yet, but here's a shot of my temporary holding "bench" where all of my current and future reclaimed woodworking tools reside sitting by the only real work bench I have, my 8' reloading/workbench I made out of a sheet of plywood and some reclaimed 4×4's.









Some of those tools (and some others not pictured) of course will be used to build the bench so I figured this could be my first semi-official bench build progress pic!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Me thinks he doth have a saw problem. Most excellent….


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## Slyy

I'dike to think it's a choice Smitty, helps me sleep better at night!


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## CL810

^ compounded by a rust problem. Some 'after' pics coming in the future?


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## Slyy

Clayton, I certainly hope sooner than later on some bench after pics. There's certainly some "after the rust" pics coming in the Restoration and saw threads on some of the things sitting on that table, they are destined to aid in the eventually bench build!


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## MactheKnife

A&H, you can build a functioning bench out of Plywood, I did, its not pretty but it is functional and robust.

One of the funny things about building a bench is its really difficult to do without a bench, its a vicious circle! 
All I had when I built this was a wobbly work table and broken workmate, it was a challenge to keep things steady when working.

I had some very heavy pieces of plywood that I was given (30 ply Beech), that were ideal for this, although I wasn't sure I could replicate the typical bench joints with it and still have it stable at the end. It also needed to be able to be dismantled as I intend moving. So I made it as simply as I could, with the joints dry and bolted.
You could do this with thinner ply, you'd just have to laminate it to get the right thickness.

The main part of the bench is a double rail, one side of which is the face, the other is hidden except the top edge, this holds the dog holes, wagon vise and has a groove underneath for the leg vise and dead man to slide in, they both move and are removeable. Its also takes all the forces when the bench is in use. the sides and top are bolted to it with M12 bolts for strength and ease of dismantling.

As I said its not pretty so I hadn't posted it on this thread, however if it helps someone then here you go:










As you can see I got carried away and made the hand wheels out of plywood as well
The leg vise and wagon vise see daily use and work great. I now have a thread cutter so I'm going to replace the metal screws with wooden ones.










I relented with the plywood and made the bench dogs out of oak!










The wagon vise carrier is plywood (120mm deep). I'm going to add bearings running in slots cut into the two sides to this when I get around to it, it works fine, but I'd like to experiment with it a bit.

It needs more dog holes in the face, I'll add these now I have some decent bits to do the holes.

I have also added my router lift to this bench since I took these pictures, the bench top slides to the left 12 inches and the router rises up from behind the wagon vise. An insert made of the same plywood with all the router table mods slots in to complete the router table.

Its been in use since July and I think its great. I will make a gucci looking hardwood bench when I get a bigger workshop, but I think this is a keeper and it cost me virtually nothing.

I do have a sketchup model of it as well if anyone wants it, you may notice I have some box joints and dovetail joints as well as an overhanging top in these, I modified the design once I started to simplify it to allow for the tools I actually had rather than the techniques I wanted to use!:










Moxon Vice next, but not in Plywood!


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## CL810

*Mac* that's a great bench. Love the sliding leg vise. However, I don't see a pin board on the bottom of the chop. How do you keep it from racking?


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## MactheKnife

*CL810* - As its a sliding leg vise and I wanted to put a toolchest under the bench I looked at doing something other than a parallel bar, which would foul the toolchest. I researched all the available options but I didn't find anything I liked (I do like the criss cross brace, but I can't afford one) so I use offcuts of a suitable size to match the work I'm holding. There are three or four bits I use regularly. 
I think the solution I will go for when I get chance is to make a large wood screw with a nut I can spin with my foot and have that running in a slot cut in the bottom rail. That'll be under the toolchest and out of the way. Someone has done it on here I think.


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## richardwootton

Mac, I am wanting to do the same thing with the second screw for the leg vise. Check out Mauricio's bench blogs. He's the one you were referring to.


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## MactheKnife

Thanks Richard, I'll check it out.


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## Armandhammer

So here's a bench top question…I was at Lowes yesterday and I found they carry untreated douglas fir 4×4 lumber. So right now that gives me the option of fir and white pine in the form of 2×4's for a solid top. That's before calling up one of the few sawmills I've found in the area to see what they might have to offer. My first question, would I be better to use something like a 4×4 lumber or a 2×4 or does it matter? Right now I'm planning a 5, maybe 6 foot table 24-32" wide. The first one is going to be smaller because I'm going to convert the corner of a spare room into a make shift woodworking area. On a side note, we looked at a house today that we are interested in that has a detached garage with about 600+ sq ft of space that I've got the ok to set up a shop in if we buy the house!

Anyways, I was thinking, and this might be a crazy, stupid, insane, perfectly sane, or otherwise a pipe dream of an idea, but there's a pretty huge white oak tree on some property I own that's standing dead. It's been dead for a few years. Depending on how green it is (how long would it take a standing dead tree to season?), I was thinking about the possibility of cutting it down, sawing it into manageable chunks of at least 8' long, and having it milled. Not sure the cost, I'd have to check, but that would give me some serious amount of hardwood for a bench top plus lots of wood to play with. If that's even a possibility, would I be better off having some of it slabbed for the bench top? This tree is I'd guess 30"+ across at the bottom and 50-60 feet tall. Regardless, I'll cut it down to have it milled depending on the cost or it'll be turned into firewood. I'd rather put it to better use than that if possible though.

So, maybe a stupid idea…just thinking outloud.


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## woodcox

A&H, I'm only a few months ahead of your questions. First off, your oak will put off a bench build for a long time. I never tried sawers cuz I had no way to mill rough cut lumber at the time. It took me months to decide on buying a glulam support beam to crosscut and then join back together for the center section of my slab. Which put it at 23" wide, about 5' long and 3" thick. Cost was a motivator and they are already pretty flat and straight. Downside is they are not selective of what makes them up when manufactured. Some of them are pith boards. I then rehabbed a fore plane and went to town removing cup and flattening it. I ended up routing both sides square with a sled to remove the twist. Once it was totally square I added about 10" of hard maple to the sides for more width and durability.

2×4 and 4×4 usually done come from the best part of the tree. Look at the 2×8" and bigger for quarter sawn. Then just rip out the bad sections.


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## donwilwol

Cut the oak and have it milled.


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## terryR

A&H, if you cut the oak down, google search on de-humidifier based kilns. There's even am LJ member who sells plans for the kiln on eBay for $25 ( I'm pretty sure this link is his? )

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wood-Drying-Kiln-Plans-/271348443124?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f2da0a7f4

Don't laugh, they really work! I've helped my bud with the sawmill dry literally tons of oak right from the mill to user ready in about 12 weeks depending on conditions. Biggest expense is the de-humdifier. And Tylenol. LOL.

+1 to buying 2×10's or 2×12's from the home center…more pine per dollar…and better wood. I ripped all mine to 3 1/8" for the bench top. Leave the 2×4's for us poor farmers trying to frame in chicken coops!


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## donwilwol

keep in mind wet wood dries quicker than green wood.


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## BigRedKnothead

A&H- oh this is any easy one. Just do like I did. Build an inexpensive pine bench from ripped down 2×10s. Work on your skills for a while oak is drying. Then demote the pine bench and build the oak bench of your dreams. Easy peasy;-)


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## terryR

Yup, Red has the correct answer…


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## richardwootton

^ I'm in toal agreement with Rojo on this one. That's sort of what I have done. I'm milling all of the parts for my big boy bench by hand now.


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## Armandhammer

Sounds good. That's what I'll do then. Check out the 2×10/2×12 stuff and see about having the tree milled for later.


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## JayT

Mos and I are putting together a 2014 calendar of not just planes, but all the seemingly linked threads. You know the Hand Planes Workbench Tool Box Saw Vintage Drills Chisels Smackdown of Your Dreams stuff. Also planning to incorporate pics from the three tools swaps held in 2013. I have been pulling pics and will be asking for some higher resolution images, too.

What I would like is to be sure that everyone has the opportunity to say whether or not they would like pictures they have taken and posted included. Please PM me a "Yep, include my pics/plane/projects" type message in the next couple of days if you are OK with that or a "No, please do not use my stuff" if not.

I'll post this message in a couple of the other threads, too and then, if necessary, contact any stragglers via PM. Hopefully calendars will be available to order in a week or so.

Thanks in advance.


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## BigRedKnothead

A&H- Cool, you'll learn a lot from your first bench build. Couple more things to consider:

- It would be ideal to mill that oak at least 8/4 for a bench. That will take a year or two to dry. If you can fine someone with a woodmizer you, they could saw it on site.

- If you don't want/need two benches, just sell the pine one and use that money for vises etc. on the 2nd one.


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## Armandhammer

Can you have too many benches? If we get that house we looked at, I'll have a lot of space to fill up and I doubt it'll be with power tools, so I might as well fill it with benches…lol

I don't know anyone that has a portable mill, but I'm sure I know someone that knows someone. I'll start asking around and checking to see if there's anything that can be rented. That sucks it takes so long to dry, but I probably won't out grow the bench I'm going to build soon for at least that long so it'll work out ok. At least by then, maybe I'll develop enough skills that I can build something nice instead of just functional.


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## richardwootton

A&H, check out this link.
http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/directories/sdd.cgi


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## BigRedKnothead

Ya, if I had the space, I'd build a bench a year;-) I pulled the vise off my first and turned it into a sharpening station.

I tried to post the link to find a woodmizer sawyer in your area, but it's not working. If you check the site, it looks like there are several in your state.

The drying wait will give you time to work with the first bench. You'll see what you like and what you'd change. It's a good thing.


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## Armandhammer

Thanks for that link Richard. There's a guy in my town. I'll be giving him a call to see what the cost is to do up the tree…maybe a few trees if I can get ahold of some more. Shouldn't be a problem…between family and a few friends, I've got about 1000 acres of timber that I can get wood from.


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## CL810

I've got about 1000 acres of timber that I can get wood from

You are a lucky man!


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## richardwootton

^ That's what I'm talking about! I'd go and get my own mill running!


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## Armandhammer

One of the benefits of living in the boonies…lol


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## CL810

Boonies, WV huh. May have to visit in a year or so…. ;-)


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## Armandhammer

Come on over. Hopefully I'll have a workshop setup by then and making piles of saw dust. We looked at a house yesterday…old farm house built in 1910. Definitely a fixer upper but loads of charm and potential. Thing that really got me excited…two car detached garage that I have permission to turn into a shop if we get the house. Over 600 square feet of space. Not huge by any stretch, but ginormous compared to the tiny space I have allotted now which is the corner of a spare bedroom…lol


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## jmartel

Any interest in a bit of a non-woodworking workbench? I'll be making a second general purpose bench in a few weeks.

Did a bit of rendering before I bought my house a few months ago. Unfortunately I don't have the file anymore.










And the lower half will roll out and turn into a motorcycle table for working on the bike.


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## Slyy

A&H - gotta be nice to potentially have the opportunity to get after some acres and acres of lumber! Hope you get a chance to turn some of those trees into some great lumber!

JMartel - that looks to be a nice setup if you can get it going! Not into motorcycles myself but the father-in-law builds motors and trannies for drag bikes and just took his own out for the final run of the season about 3 weeks ago!


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## jmartel

My bike is my main form of transportation when I don't need to haul something more than I can carry on my tail bag or backpack.










Having the table makes it much easier to work on it. Raises everything up to a good working height, and doesn't make you squat down to change the oil or change the wheel.

Ideally, I'd have a hydraulic motorcycle lift, but my garage is pretty small so I can't keep it out on the floor.

I'm half considering getting the hydraulic lift and putting it under the main table. Still need to make that decision though. The main bench is getting built either way.


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## Slyy

Jmartel - I certainly like the idea, I've got the same thing going in terms of space: my "shop" is my 2 car garage that is dictated by the boss to still be able to retain one car in case of emergency (ie tornados and hail). So for me, a lot of my toys, be them woodworking or other, need to be able to be multi-purpose or mobile as much as possible.
It'll be slick to have the nice pull-out bike platform with or without lift.

Incidentally, not to turn our bench thread into a bike thread, but here is my best experience bike wise: a few shots of the father-in-law plus nearly 300HP naturally aspirated self built 8.20 bike! This was after his first ever run, only took him a decade to finish the bike!


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## dbray45

Took a couple of days off and put in some shop time. I finished my bench. The front vise will be changed at a later date but it is good for now. It is already in use, working on a bookcase.

Thanks for looking.


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## CL810

^ Real nice!


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## dbray45

Thank you - it was a lot of work. When I turned it over to land it on its feet, it was upside down on top of a different bench, I decided that it was either going to break or bounce (with me standing well out of the way) - it bounced.


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## ToddJB

Jmart, cool idea. From an untrained eye I would consider making it a little more narrow if you'll be using a stool when working on the bike, as your knees might get in the way of being able to get close enough to the bike. And if the top is 1/2" ply you might need some beefy supports under it necessitating dropping your drawers a little. Yes, I did just suggest you drop your drawers.

Just a thought.

Also, I really like the guy in the corner playing pocket pool. I didn't know sketch-up had that image.

David - Looks sweet. Good job.


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## chrisstef

Todd's undefeated at away games in pocket pool.


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## dbray45

Thanks Todd


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## Slyy

Looking sweet David!!

Stef - some people just know how to handle the ball.


----------



## jmartel

Todd, my last motorcycle table that I had back on the east coast was a bit narrower, and I didn't like it. I want a full 2' wide this time. I'm also planning on putting a 1/2" or 3/4" lip around all edges this time as well, so that no sockets can roll off and get lost. I've been toying with the idea of sinking an oil drip pan into the table below the bike and having a cover go over it when not in use. Not sure if it would be worth the effort.

Also debating between drawers and just open doors. If I have segmented doors, I could just do a center web frame design like is used on ships. If I use drawers, then I can just keep the drawer widths to about 12-18", with a 1×2 or so stiffener running down the middle. That would provide the strength needed. I'm also considering doubling up the top sheet of ply, which would definitely hold the bike on it's own.

Pitfalls of being an engineer. Just screwing some 2×4's and some ply together isn't enough.


----------



## ToddJB

Stef, I'm undisputed, but I'm looking for a good challenge.

Jmart, what did you not like about it being more narrow? I've considered building one for my bike and I'd love to learn from previous experience.


----------



## jmartel

Wider tables give you more room to store tools that you are using around the bike. Narrow let you get closer to the bike. Honestly, I never felt like it would inhibit my ability to get at anything. We're only talking about a width of 2' here. My old one was also comprised of 2 tables that I pushed together. When not in use, I stacked them up so that they became an outfeed table for my table saw. They weren't long enough though, and when I had the bike up on the front and rear stands, I had to have a gap between them. This one should be about 7.5' long.

One thing you will want is a wheel chock. Harbor Freight sells theirs cheap and you can just bolt it in. I would get this one as the silver one tends to pinch the tires and is difficult to get out.

http://www.harborfreight.com/motorcycle-stand-wheel-chock-97841.html

With coupon it's typically $40 I believe.

Storage underneath is a wonderful thing to have. If nothing else, leave it empty under so you can toss parts you're removing under there and out of the way. I will probably try and store my track set of wheels in my table, and possibly my spare gas tank.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ohh….I like that bench David. Nice job.


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks Jmart


----------



## DanKrager

That is a nice bench, David. Now the Bondo pose to christen and make it official?
DanK


----------



## dbray45

As far as the pose goes, aint gonna happen.

Many thanks on the bench. Something I have been working toward for many years, finally did it.


----------



## CL810

Ya, David - same thing that Mos said. This is a tough crowd….. A patient persistent crowd.


----------



## dbray45

There are some things that the Internet will not see, that is one of them.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, not everyone has the stones for a bondo pose.


----------



## dbray45

I got 'stones' and they stay where they are supposed to. All other stones stay in the driveway where I run them over.


----------



## CL810

David, please read the fine print of the terms and conditions for the Workbench Smack Down thread.


----------



## dbray45

Ok - Still not doing a pose -


----------



## Slyy

That fine print'll get you every time!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well, the trash talk/peer pressure thing isn't working on David;-)

Here's my new and improved end vise chop I was blabbin' about:









-
To back up, awhile back another LJ sent me some shop made bench dogs:
















-
The slide up and down nicely with a wooden spring. Only problem with this setup was that the dogs in my jaw didn't slide down. The hole went down a couple inches. I was constantly removing these dogs or banging my knuckles when I used it as a regular vise. So, I made a thicker jaw with holes that go all the way through, and longer spring-loaded dogs:

















-
Works pretty slick so far. I made a few more dogs while I was at it. Only thing I did different was make the spring extend out a little further. I had some of them falling if I was pounding on my bench.


----------



## terryR

^Love it.
Want it.


----------



## Boatman53

Very nice.
Jim


----------



## CL810

Red, how often do you use the inside row of dog holes? In combination with first row?

Did you really make a tiny mallet to make your bench look bigger? ;-)


----------



## Airframer

Did you really make a tiny mallet to make your bench look bigger? ;-)

I had to scroll up but BOOM I almost fell out of my chair!


----------



## shampeon

Red is actually 5' 3". It's all been a lie, and lighting/camera tricks. For example, that Templeton Rye? Old Tabasco bottle and a fake label.


----------



## richardwootton

Eric, I did the same damn thing and laughed aloud! From what I hear, if you flatten the top it makes it look bigger…


----------



## DKV

I am going to replace my solid core door benchtop and was thinking of installing one of these. What do you guys think?


----------



## richardwootton

DKV, the travel seems pretty limited on something like that. But you typically work on smaller sized projects like boxes and such, right?


----------



## Slyy

...lighting/camera tricks. For example, that Templeton Rye? Old Tabasco bottle and fake label!

Now THAT it is hilarious!!!


----------



## DKV

richard, yes typically small stuff. However, given a row of dog holes I would not seem to be limited except by the length of my bench.


----------



## Mosquito

There's really no limitation from the smaller travel of the inset vise, just requires more dog holes to get the job done. An inset vise has about the same amount of travel as the wagon vise I ended up making, and it works fine for me. I have a dog in every dog hole, so that helps squash any inconvenience of having to change the dog around too often. I almost ended up going with an inset, but opted for a more traditional wagon vise, mostly for aesthetic, and partly because of cost (which ended up not working out so well lol)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh man…..Ian and Clayton had me laughing so hard my eyes' were watering.

Red, how often do you use the inside row of dog holes? In combination with first row?
I honestly just use whichever dog hole is closest to the length of the board when I put it down. 
In combination? Rarely, I think I did when smoothing something angled, like the sides of my plane till. Not gonna say it held great though.

Did you really make a tiny mallet to make your bench look bigger?
That's my old ugly bench dogs. LJ Widdle was so tired of looking at them he sent me some new bench dogs out of pity.


----------



## merrill77

I'll second that - I have a mere 2.5" of travel on my wagon vices from the screw. But the sliding block has 4 different holes, which gives me another 5"+ of variation. Looks like the Veritas Inset Vice has the same feature, though with only 2 positions for the jaw.

Moving the dog among the 4 holes on my vice is faster than the fastest screw-I think you'd get the same benefit from the VIV.

Here is one of my wagon vices (and leg vice):


----------



## DonBroussard

@CL810-That was FUNNY! I had to scroll back up too, but it was worth it!

@BRK-Nice work on the bench mods. Looking good! I want to see the little mallet in action . . .


----------



## DKV

I like it.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Home/VideoPopup.aspx?v=12


----------



## Tag84

Here's my finished bench,
I posted here some time ago, when it was still in progress.


----------



## Slyy

EDIT - guess you figured out the project link didn't post! 
Dang nice looking bench there Thomas


----------



## Tag84

Yes, it works now 
Thanks Sly!


----------



## shipwright

I finally got around to putting my new little Short Block V8 bench through her paces along with my new hand tools. Everything seems to work as well as I had hoped. I can't believe how much fun I'm having with hand tools. I'm like a kid in a toy store. If you are interested, there's more about the experience here.


----------



## CL810

I finished my moxon vise and posted as a project.



Pretty pumped about it all in all. However, right now I'd give a thumbs down to veneer screws. They work and do the job but there is some vertical play that just drives me crazy.


----------



## richardwootton

Paul, ridiculously addictive, huh?

CL810, are you going to replace the veneer screws for some threaded acme rod or something along those lines?


----------



## bandit571

Wonder IF going to a concrete supplier to order a bit of number 8 or 12 bar, and have them threaded the entire length would work?

Used to get rebar for the foundation work i did. Some of the bars would have 6tpi threads cut on an end, for use with threaded inserts in piers and such. Rebar that thick is very hard to bend. A number 8 bar is 1" diameter rod.

Not sure what a couple short rods would costs, though…..


----------



## merrill77

CL810 - I faced a similar problem using pipe clamps for my workbench vices-the jaw would tilt back a bit under pressure. I solved this with a little UHMW tape applied strategically to keep it aligned and still allow the jaw to slide easily on the pipes. I used applied a piece on the bottom half of one end of the hole and the top half of the other end. Now it tilts forward a bit when relaxed, but straightens up under pressure.

It seems like it might work in your application. You can just barely see the tape in this picture (the tape is almost clear). I considered drilling angled holes as another options, but after testing this solution, I went with it.


----------



## shipwright

Clayton, I think guide rods may help but the real problem is that the clamps were designed for a different purpose and were never meant to work horizontally. In a press that sloppiness in the threads is fine and actually makes it easier to back them off quickly etc. In my opinion you would be better off using something else and either selling off the veneer clamps or using them to make some form of vertical clamping fixture, maybe even a press. I'll bet you can think up some innovative bench clamp like that.
I very much like your bench and have confidence they you will get this worked out.


----------



## CL810

*Richard *, not at this time. Used Merrill's suggestion and it has helped a lot. Thanks *Merrill*!

*Bandit*, I never knew that and it's good to know.

*Paul*, I think you have predicted the eventual outcome. I have just begun my veneering journey. I've done one project with it and wow, the skies opened up and it hit me just how powerful it can be.

Anyway, when the time comes I think I'll look at the BC hardware very hard.


----------



## richardwootton

Yeah Clayton that BC stuff is just so darn sweet. I wish I could outfit my entire bench build (both of them) with benchcrafted hardware!


----------



## Tugboater78

I missed everyone! Been 44 days since I last checked the site. Been 4.4 months since I've had time to be in my shop, crazy work schedule! Hope all is well trying to catch up on the threads.


----------



## Boatman53

Welcome back Justin has it been that long? Watch your eyes if you venture into some of the other threads, you are warned.
Jim


----------



## Armandhammer

Ok…getting very close to going in to get supplies for my bench. I need to call some saw mills in the area to see what they have for dimensional lumber, but basically I'll do the base with something like fir or maybe pine, and I'm going to go ahead and do the top with plywood/MDF. I'd do a wood top but right now I don't have any clamps and I can't afford to go out and buy 10-12 of them for gluing up a top. I know I'll need a handful for the base to get started though.

So that's pretty much my question at this point. Which would be better…ply or MDF?

I'm planning on making it 3 layers (should I do 4 layers?) with a 1/4" top layer of hardboard…maybe, but definitely 3-4 layers of 3/4" whatever is deemed best. I'll be adding bench dogs and a vise so I definitely want whichever I build with to hold up. Once I get a better place to set of shop, I'll build a proper hardwood top bench and use this first bench as an outfeed table or something like that.


----------



## MactheKnife

*Armandhammer* - of the two I'd go for the ply. I have 60mm of it for my workbench top and it doesn't flex, its also heavy and stable. You can use bench dogs and holdfasts with it, I'm not sure MDF would take that.


----------



## richardwootton

*Armandhammer* - I'm in agreement with MactheKnife, if all you needed was a work surface then I'm sure MDF would be fine, but to take the abuse of a work bench top then I would want something more substantial. Also with a plywood top I don't think the hardboard would be necessary.


----------



## Armandhammer

Thanks. Yeah, it'll be an actual workbench at least until I have the things (tools and skills) I need to build a proper hardwood bench. So ply it is.


----------



## terryR

Bummer…I lost the parallel guide to my leg vice this week.










...just been kicking red oak shavings out of the way


----------



## theoldfart

Lost as in fell off?


----------



## richardwootton

I bet with a broom you'll be able to find it again!


----------



## Slyy

Teryry - showing off won't get you much attention around here….. (Looks around at crowd of bench p0rn gawkers) crud, never mind….. Carry On!


----------



## shipwright

*Clayton*, I may have found a use for one of your press screws. Maybe you can use one of these.


----------



## terryR

No, Kevin, it didn't fall off…I think Richard has the solution! BTW, I haven't seen my shop kitty in a week, either! LOL

Jake, thanks, but my pine beater of a bench isn't much in the way of tool p0rn.  It's a great tool to help me learn hand tool skills, so I build one like Clayton next time!!!


----------



## CL810

Paul, I posted a question on the project post for you.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Paul, I love that project post, I'll ask a couple questions there, too.


----------



## bandit571

Might get this to work


----------



## ColonelTravis

Bench people, I need your help. I bought this bench from HF a while ago before I knew anything about anything:










With a coupon it was a good deal for what it is, but over time I made some modifications and at this point it is worthless for using hand planes. I wish I knew way back then what I know now, such an idiot. Anyway, I took the top off because it's flat, made of oak, has room for a vice, has bench dog holes - if I can salvage the top, I'd like to do so. Problem is the wood is 3/4 inch thick:










If I make a hefty base, I'm potentially going to be left with a wimpy top. Is there a way to make a solid bench from this top or should I start from scratch? I mean make one from wood, I could go buy a $2,000 cast iron table that won't budge but I'm not into buying $2,000 cast iron tables.

The length of the bench top is ideal for my garage, I wish I could fit a 8-foot or 12-foot monster in there but I can't. The table top is 5 feet long, so that's also adding to the possible heft problem.


----------



## shampeon

I'd say it'd be more trouble than it's worth to somehow modify that top into a proper woodworking bench top. However, it would probably make a good top for an assembly table, or a joinery bench top.


----------



## Airframer

Pretty sure you could infill the bottom of that top with layers of MDF and it would beef it up… but I could be wrong.

OR

Save it and make a joinery bench with it


----------



## DanKrager

CT, you could put a thick apron all around with a couple batten cross pieces (splitting the top into thirds), then you could mount that on a hefty base and get by until you can form the proper top. Carefully mounting the top with screws in slots and oversize hole, this will take most of the wimp out. I'm going to build wooden versions of the Norden adjustable bench legs which will be hefty and strong.
DanK


----------



## changeoffocus

Sir, 
This a great post, I've set it to "watch". 
Most of these postings look like fine furniture and are pleasure to view. 
I am in the process of building another bench from may most recent dumpster "dive" 
It's a drop from a 5" x 18" lam beam just short of seven foot long. 
I've spent two days just cutting and chiseling a 12" x 3" x 20" relief for my very old Morgan #20 woodworking vice screw and slides.
I'll post it soon and it will be entered in the "brute" category. 
Thanks for starting this.


----------



## CL810

FWARMC - welcome to the fray! Looking forward to your posts. We have a saying - "Pics or it didn't happen." ;-)


----------



## ColonelTravis

Thanks for the input. Can I get enough heft building a 5-6 foot bench from scratch?


----------



## CL810

CT - most definitely. There's been a number of builds that size on this thread.


----------



## Boatman53

Yes my bench is just over 5' and 22" wide. Rock solid, I've never moved it working. It will be heavier still once I build the tool cabinet under it. I used Ash that I had on hand, it was the biggest I could build without buying more wood. I did have to buy wood for the vise chop, but that was it.
Jim


----------



## ColonelTravis

Great, thanks. Haven't looked through this entire thread, will do for assistance.


----------



## JayT

My bench is 6ft long and about 24in deep. Made out of construction lumber, with a little bit of hardwood. Heavy and stable enough that I haven't moved it yet, even taking heavy cuts with a hand plane.


----------



## shipwright

I think my original V8 bench is about 2' X 6' as I remember and it is really solid and heavy. It may not be your style but it is cheap and easy to build.


----------



## CL810

CT use 'smackdown' in search and then pick the benches you want to look at.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Paul, I've seen your bench and it is awesome. Could not believe it was full of plywood, thanks for the reminder. This whole thread is an incredible resource.


----------



## Boatman53

I stll haven't posted my bench as a project yet. I need to put that on my to-do list.
Jim


----------



## BigRedKnothead

This whole thread is an incredible resource.

I was just thinking what a ride this thread has been the past year. Remember when we all went off just telling our age and background?

And, of course, various bench builds and epiphanies abound. Good times.


----------



## shipwright

......... so you regulars here all know each other's ages and backgrounds…..... How far back do I have to look to get up to speed?


----------



## widdle

You'll have to get the secret password from red..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

hehehe. Widdle drive-by.

Paul, you made me have to look. It starts around page 80 and goes on for a while:

http://lumberjocks.com/replies/on/1586054/page/80

Some good stuff in there.


----------



## widdle

i think the password should be ..omaha….omaha !!!!!


----------



## jmartel

I think I'm the youngest of the regulars here. I'm only 25.


----------



## yuridichesky

I stll haven't posted my bench as a project yet. I need to put that on my to-do list.

Oh, I have it in my todo list, but some other stuff popped on the top of this list. I feel I need a vacation…


----------



## lysdexic

Sorry JMart - I turn 19 next month..


----------



## dbray45

I have two benches - the older one that is higher has a plywood top - three layers of 3/4" ply. The new one is in my projects.

The one that predates the older one is here:










This was handy because I kept my scraps in this. The scrap compartments were sliding shelves and could be pulled out. I may make another one when I have space.


----------



## theoldfart

Congratulations Scotty!


----------



## Slyy

Scott - only cuz I may forget next month, and turning 19 is such a special time in any girls life:









Took me an hour to find a pink marker to match my top….


----------



## shipwright

Nineteen was a long time ago but I was twenty-five once. (I know, .. no pictures, it didn't happen)










That was the first boat I built (ferro-cement) 
Zoom ahead thirty-nine years and this is the last one. (wood of course)
I haven't changed much have I ?


----------



## CL810

I'm guessing there is one change. Now you can afford to relax and chill the way you were dreaming about in the first pic. Of course, now you dream about going back to the first pic!


----------



## terryR

Happy B-Day, Scotty-Yo! 

Paul, that looks like a sweet spot for morning coffee…or evening beverage! Very nice build! I'm off to search your projects for more photos. 

CT, 5 feet long and 30" wide…immovable during work. All made from 2×12's and a $30 screw from LV.










...of course, I'm up to about $500 for the holdfasts, Veritas clamps, etc…

AND, to warn anyone new…we sorta expect you to pose on your finished work piece!  ( blue wig optional )


----------



## shipwright

Nice bench Terry. Do I detect book matched spike knots in the front apron?
Very creative!
I like the pose too.


----------



## theoldfart

What, those aren't chevrons?


----------



## shipwright

OK Red, I checked back on the old comments about everyone's age. You made reference to "old geezers". Well, I guess I resemble that remark. .... 

Clayton, no I've been there, done that, don't need to go back ….... Back then I had to go to work every day.


----------



## theoldfart

Shipwright, I resemble that geezers remark. :0)>


----------



## CL810

Back then I had to go to work every day

Oh yeah, forgot about that…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Geezers make the best friends. I love all my Geezers.


----------



## theoldfart

Geezer Gallootts Gang!


----------



## Slyy

Geezers aren't that bad, heck, my best friend is nearly 30 years my senior. Both of us and the wives went on a cruise last year, TSA agents wanted to know if "mom and dad" were buying the vacation for us "kids". Guess they didn't notice "bro and sis" making out in the baggage line…....


----------



## ColonelTravis

TR - I remember that spectacular pose with that bench debut. Also gonna load up on 2×12s.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Speaking of that, I need to get some SYP 2×12s drying in my shop. I feel some saw horses coming on.


----------



## terryR

Yep, I'm stocking up on more 2×12's, too. Wanna copy Red's joinery bench! 

Can I join the Geezer Galoot Gang at 48?  I can wait a couple of years if I have to. Maybe by then I'll know what a breadboard is! LOL


----------



## BigRedKnothead

If I built it a again, I would wedge the tenons through top. Things have already shrunk and moved a bit.

Terry, you may as well join the club of folks who have made a bench similar to one of mine, except better….lol.


----------



## CL810

Can I join the Geezer Galoot Gang at 48?  I can wait a couple of years

Don't rush, it'll catch you soon enough!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jake- My best bud is in his 50's. When I visit I play video games with his college aged son, then drink beer and smoke meat with his dad(my best friend). Good fun.

It helps that I'm soooo mature for my age….more lol.


----------



## richardwootton

Red, is it the top that's moved? How so?


----------



## Slyy

Red - I think my bud and I have learned to appreciate each other's point of view when it comes to age as well.
Also Red, by wedged you mean like these:









Gosh I need to start practicing on making stuff rather than just finding and fixing the tools to do it!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yep, like that Jake. I should preface by stating that I knew the oak for my joinery bench wasn't as dry/seasoned as the wood for my Roubo. It had been air drying for several years in a barn, then spent a little time in my shop. So, I knew it would shrink some. It has, you can kinda see the gaps on the sides.









-
The tenons are also a little proud of the top right now, but we'll see how they sit next summer. Wedges may have helped with this. Plus, they give you some more play when making the joint. I spent a good amount of time getting these through tenons to fit snugly….now for not. I could have just got them close and drove some wedges.


----------



## Boatman53

Here's the foundation for a 30' long bench at the community boatshop. 4 leg vises with the chain adjusters and an end vise.









Jim


----------



## woodcox

Wow Jim! That is going to be sweet!


----------



## richardwootton

Jim that thing is going to be freaking huge! How wide is it going to be?


----------



## widdle

Come on red..Close that up…or at least give us warning before posting such pictures..


----------



## Slyy

Wedge question again, would you want/need to glue the wedges in? Did a quick google image search and found some nice and some ultra fancy wedged tenons! Nice at least that it seems to afford a little less accuracy requirements on the front end to your tenon/mortise fit.


----------



## CL810

Jake - I don't think glue is necessary but it won't hurt. I glued mine just because I didn't want any surprises later.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That's it. Can't take it anymore. I'm gonna drill and chop out some mortises for wedges;-P


----------



## richardwootton

I wouldn't put it past you Rojo!


----------



## CL810

Red you are too funny! 

Jim, that is going to be some bench.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I blame Widdle. His OCD always pushes my OCD over the edge.


----------



## mochoa

Jim, those benches are going to look great.

I don't know about wedges but my bench is draw board with no glue and I cant tell the difference. No through tenons though.

I've also decided to pick up some SYP for my English style bench I'm building. I'm planning on gluing up just the rift/quartersawn parts.

I don't know if I'm patient enogh to wait for it to dry though, I may leave it a little wide and let it hang off the back edge a little and trim it to size after its well dried. I'm not going to do any laminations though as far as thickness that is. I think 1.5" will be fine for a joinery height bench.


----------



## woodcox

Finally getting back to my bench build. I picked up a floor model drill press on New Years and have been playing with it ever since. Soooo nice to have two now. I was scratching my head on how to accurately end drill my vise handle dowels. Off came the table, a stack of slotted, 1/4" mdf holesaw plugs to fit in the table mount hole and I was in bid-ness. I drilled em out to 1 1/8" to fit the walnut dowels and could use the clamp there to hold in place while I hit the centers at a ninety.









Another nice thing was I could use the same forstner to correct any unevenness in my crosscuts. 









A while ago I searched coin diameters for some bling. Ebay acquired, sorry Canada. 








I still need to turn some more knobs to finish them up though but I'm stoked for the results.


----------



## GBelleman

Here is my bench out of oak. Legs are 5 inch square and the top is 4 inches thick. Heavy, but a joy to work on. I like that it is only 26" deep so I can reach over it.


----------



## CL810

Great bench Guy!


----------



## terryR

Nice bench, Guy, I do love the oak!

Woodcox, nice work! I have also been searching for brass, nickel, whatever in discs to use as you did. Looks like coins are the cheapest solution! LOL.

Maur, I was sorta thinking the same about the thickness of my upcoming joinery bench. 3" thick seems overkill?


----------



## lysdexic

Nice bench Guy.

It looks as if the top is made of 3 massive beams.


----------



## yuridichesky

Guy, the bench is just wow!


----------



## Mosquito

woodcox, the vise handles look sweet. I should do something up like that too… I just use a dowel with a rubber band on each end to keep it falling out lol

-

Guy, that is a great looking bench.

-

My bench doing its "portable" thing for the first time… got it moved to the new rental house this weekend. Gonna try to make a run with a bunch of the tools soon too. Figured I'd better get it out of my apartment before I start making something that distracts me from moving lol


----------



## woodcox

Thanks mos. Sounds like your priorities are in order with the move.


----------



## bandit571

Working with the bench









F clamp and a Crochet to hold a panel, while I work off the new edge.









Got to figure a way to clamp it better, so that bar doesn't damage a "part" of me. Making some Moxxon TP









Since the outside weather looks so "nice"









May as well stay in the Dungeon Shop…









Can't wait til SPRING!!


----------



## john2005

So after cranking out gifts for the holidays, the holidays themselves, a small kitchen remodel and any number of other excuses, I am back on track. This weekend was able to knock out the breadboard ends on the top and the tenons on the legs. Now to chop some big ole mortises.



















Sorry for the fuzz in the second one. Didn't notice that till later.


----------



## Airframer

Looking good John. Probably too late to mention you could have laminated in the mortises for those dovetailed legs huh.. ;-)


----------



## richardwootton

John, can you remind me what species you're using for the bench top? It's kind of hard to tell from the pictures except for the walnut of course.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

And….how did you cut the dovetails/tenons there Johnny boy.

Mos- I'm gonna miss the old apartment. Maybe one day we can break into it and sing the Bare Naked Ladies song.


----------



## DonBroussard

. . . with you both with blue wigs on!


----------



## CL810

Looking strong John!!


----------



## john2005

Thanks boys. Weapons of choice below, less the drill and auger bit to get the keyhole saw in. Man could that thing use a good sharpening!

Eric, I had thought about building them in but I really wanted to challenge myself….that's another way of saying none of the boards were the same thickness until after glued and milled. It would have been a lot of thinking. And I'm not to good at the thinking.

Richard, it is birch and you got it, walnut.


----------



## Slyy

Guy - great looking bench man!! That your joinery bench to the left?

John - those tenons are looking great, can't wait to see how your mortises look when you're done!


----------



## ColonelTravis

Pictures are inspirational.

Question from an eager dumb beaver: Do I need to let the 2×12 pine boards acclimate in the garage for two weeks before planing and sawing and cursing? Is the kiln dried stuff sitting in HD dry enough to start immediately or not? I've build plenty of crap out of 2×4s where it didn't matter, but I don't want my bench looking like Dr. Seuss furniture a year from now.

Also going to invest in a moisture meter since I don't have one.


----------



## Armandhammer

I'm wondering the same thing. I just brought home some 4×4 douglas fir for legs and stretchers and I'm anxious to start building. Right now it's all out on my carport…I guess I should bring it in to acclimate huh? I need to figure out how I'm doing the upper part of the bench too so I can start acclimating the proper lumber for that as well.


----------



## jmartel

Travis/Hammer:

It's generally considered a good idea to let any wood you buy acclimate for a bit before using. The same even goes for hardwood flooring. You're supposed to bring the boxes and let them sit in the room they will be installed in for a few days to a week.


----------



## Armandhammer

Dang…wood inside now…time to play the waiting game. Guess it gives me time to get my final design down…not that my bench will be much…keepin' the first one pretty simple and heavy duty.


----------



## DanKrager

I worry about acclimation only if the wood has experienced some sort of dramatic change in environment…like coming in out of the rain, going from cold to hot, or something like that. My shop and my supply stream have no heat in them except perhaps a kiln sometimes. The temperature hovers around 30 degrees right now and it is not unpleasant with special knit vinyl dotted gloves to handle the ice cubes. Many joints don't require glue. If glue is required, the glue surfaces are radiated with infrared lamps for 30 minutes before assy and 60 minutes after. Titebond II has not failed me yet under those circumstances. 
I'm also kinda fussy about grain orientation and straightness. With the advantage of long years of experience, you learn what the limits are in different circumstances. So far, I've never had to replace or repair anything that split or twisted.
DanK


----------



## JayT

I worry about acclimation only if the wood has experienced some sort of dramatic change in environment

+1 to that.

Direct from Paul Sellers' workbench building blog "Southern Yellow Pine is fine straight from the bundle but you must work with it quickly as it does distort unless laminated" I bought the 2x construction lumber for my bench and started milling and laminating it the same day and have had zero problems.


----------



## dbray45

From what I have seen, the kiln dried stuff in the box stores is about 14%, much wetter than what I use


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I didn't wait much on my first pine bench. I just tried to pick out boards that didn't feel extra heavy or water-logged. I also figured it had been indoors at the BORG, any additional drying would take longer than I wanted wait. If you go this route, be prepared for it to shrink and need to be reflattened after the first year. But, then again, this still happened with my 2nd kiln dried oak bench, just not as much.

As mentioned, more important advice it to only rip as much as you can laminated that day. Otherwise they'll go all "pine" on ya. Stability comes from the laminations.

I'm excited for you guys!


----------



## Armandhammer

Great info…and I'm super excited too Red. Can't wait to get this project started. I think I'm going to build a couple saw horses first though so I have some sort of work surface. But that's easy enough with a handful of 2x lumber.

I still need to nail down a design. I've been watching lots of videos and checking out all the benches in this thread. I might download Chris S's book on Kindle and have a look at that as well. I'm staying simple first time around…I'm just trying to decide if I want to stay super simple with something like lap joints or if I want to try some mortise joints or a combo. I also need to figure out how to do the top of the base…I think I have the bottom hammered out. I'm going to copy the bench in Chris' video Build a "Sturdy Workbench in Two Days" but for the top I'm going to use 2 or 3 layers of ply rather than the Ikea top and I want to make sure it's supported so it doesn't develop sag over time.


----------



## terryR

Yeah, the Borg has a different definition of kiln-dried than a hardwood store. Usually kiln-dried means 6-8% MC.

Since my shop is so humid, I only let the 2×12's sit long enough to get in the way, then I started ripping. I even ripped them all at once, plus a few extras, but kept them clamped in a bundle until needed. My top was laminated 5 or 6 sticks at a time right to the legs and bearers since I knew I couldn't lift the final top as one piece.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

A&H- Doh, I forgot you were doing a ply top. Ya, some sawhorses would be nice, but I wouldn't sweat using lumber that isn't completely dry on you base. It's gonna do what it's gonna do anyway.

Funny sawhorse story from my roubo: right after I took this pic, I noticed that my plastic sawhorses were bending considerably. I gave it a jiggle and heard a crack. I said to myself, "What am I thinking? There must be 500lbs on these right now!" I called my neighbor and we carefully got it turned over. Somebody would have gotten hurt if those saw horses would have given out.

Moral: don't get so caught up in the bench build that you abandon common sense.


----------



## CL810

abandon common sense

I think that happened a long time ago with the first electrolysis/evapo-rust bath!


----------



## lysdexic

*^* yep, it happened to me after my first electrolysis and hot wax bath. But that is for a different forum.


----------



## richardwootton

Lysdexic with the win!


----------



## woodcox

I have a pair.


----------



## richardwootton

Woodcox those look awesome!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Fancy! I put O-rings on mine too. I likey.


----------



## CL810

Really nice Woodcox!


----------



## chrisstef

What kinda outfit do you wear when you go into those baton twirling competitions woodcox? Suttin like this?


----------



## bandit571

What would Al say? All you people fawning over someone's knobs…


----------



## richardwootton

Armandhammer,I'm going to somewhat reiterate what's already been said. I laminated 2×4s together for a bench top as soon as I got done removing mill marks, ripping off the rounded edges removing any major twist. The tubas probably sat there for around a week all together. I have noticed a little movement in the top but nothing to worry about at all. I'm currently using it as my temporary bench while I build my other 2 benches. All that to say, I wouldn't worry too much about the MC on those boards, but if I were you I'd probably rip down some 2×6s and laminate them together for the legs which would probably be a bit more stable than the 4×4s. Unless of course you already bought the 4×4s.


----------



## Armandhammer

Yes…already bought them but I'd think I could return them. They are from Lowes and haven't been molested yet. I'm kinda surprised to read that 2×6's would be more stable than a 4×4. I just thought that the 4×4 having more mass would make them more stable. I was going to cut the 4×4's and laminate them actually making big heavy 8×4 legs.


----------



## woodbench

Hello All,
I have recently SCORED a large butcher block top and have in mind to finally design and build a "classic" bench. I have vise hardware that I purchased 20 yrs ago at Woodcraft and have a face vise and modified tail vise in mind. Im leaning towards a Roubo style with large walnut legs and maple top and stretchers. Any recommendations from the experienced gang here would be appreciated. I plan on all hand tool construction, just to say I did it.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## richardwootton

Woodbench, what size is that butcher block top you came across? We have a saying around here, "pictures or it didn't happen!"


----------



## DanKrager

I'm kinda surprised to read that 2×6's would be more stable than a 4×4. I just thought that the 4×4 having more mass would make them more stable.
A&H, I'm wondering if perchance you misunderstood or missed that the 2×6 LAMINATED can get you more stability than a 4×4 with the same mass. The lamination ends up the same size 3.5×3.5" as a 4×4 if you cut it that way. 
Just checking…
DanK


----------



## richardwootton

Dan, that's what I was trying to communicate, but I've never been accused of being too bright.


----------



## Airframer

Man, you guys and your new builds are making me jealous! I kinda miss the build process. If I had it to do over I would definitely go about things a bit differently. What I was shooting for was stout sexy functionality but ended up with Stef in a tutu ;-)


----------



## richardwootton

Eric, just build another one! If I remember right, the speed with which you built your first bench should enable you to be done with an assembly/joinery bench or the like by next Sunday, or Monday at the latest.


----------



## Slyy

Red: dont abandon common sense

I've mentioned to Red before that it was a random google image search that turned up a pic of his bench, that ultimately lead me to LJ's, I'd have to say common sense is already out there door: two months, 7 planes, 9 saws, 2 gallons of evapo rust and much more besides, I think I've lost any sense

Stef - my wife (ex colorguard) thinks your form looks pretty good in that pic, though she mentioned more glitter would really help put you over the top.

I think it was Red a while back who posted a link to a Schwarz blog and his traditional English saw benches, I think this will be my first "bench build" in prep for the big brother.

Found that saw bench link


----------



## Armandhammer

I understood you meant laminated. I just thought that a solid 4×4 (3 1/2×3 1/2) would still be more stable just because it was solid…not two pieces glued together. But these are the assumptions and misconceptions that I have not really knowing too much about all this stuff…so it's good to learn things like this.

Would it be the same for stretchers? Laminated better than solid?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jake- That's funny, I think someone else posted the link to the English saw benches. But just tonight I was gonna look for that link and you saved me the search. It's like we're on the same wavelength or sumpin. 
Gonna make some SYP saw benches. My old plastic saw horses have bigger stretch marks that Lysdexics whitie tighties.

A&H- I'll try to help. Don't think of glue joints as a weakness. Even when edge gluing 1" stock, if you try to break the board, it will often break in another weak spot on the board. When done properly, yellow would glue is silly strong.

Laminations stable? There's a bit of physics to it. Think of one board on it's own trying to bow as it dries. What if it's face glued to another board. Unless both are bowing the same way, it probably won't move. Plus the resistance from the other board will make it unlikely. Multiple laminations make it even less likely to move. I hope that makes sense.

Laminations for stretchers more stable?- Yes, but probably not necessary. A lower shelf or other feature would keep it from going too crazy.


----------



## lysdexic

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## BigRedKnothead

LOL….Oh my friggin goodness. You never disappoint.


----------



## lysdexic

Consider it living life for Art. Whoever he is.


----------



## Armandhammer

Wow…glad I read Red's post before I saw that pic…cause I'm legally blind now.

Thanks for the explanation Red…that helps me understand and to not fear the lamination!...lol


----------



## Slyy

Lysdexic - I guess I could ask one of the guys at work, but, your professional medical opinion: bleach okay to wash my eyes out?

Also, should I feel bad that I want a glass of milk suddenly?


----------



## Armandhammer

Who has cookies?


----------



## lysdexic

Bleach will get the Red out.

That will be $1500. Payment is required at the time of service.


----------



## Slyy

Anybody need some, I got extra:









EDIT: I think Red's likely facing liability here, hope his premiums are paid up cuz he might be fronting a lot of federal bills from Lys


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## CL810

Selfies are so yesterday… Just sayin….


----------



## john2005

^ha!


----------



## BustedClock

Living here in Denver, there is a surfeit of beetle-kill Lodgepole and Ponderosa pine. A criminally large amount of it goes to waste-or fuels nice little wildfires hungry for housing developments…

A couple of local entrepreneurs (read people with sawmills) have taken to making flooring, some furniture, log cabin siding, etc. from the local resources. From what I'm seeing I can get 8/4 beetle-kill Lodgepole for less than $2/bf-possibly even $1/bf. However, I haven't been able to find a resource for the Janka hardness of Lodgepole vs. SYP, so I don't know if this would make a decent workbench.

Does anybody have any experience with beetle-kill Lodgepole pine, references for the wood properties, or just general advice?

Thanks


----------



## woodcox

1st. You are going have to actually start your bench build. Now that Jake's woman pulled your card, we'll let her bring you up to speed on what the "batons" are used for in this thread. 









2nd. You eat white bread. 
3rd. My cocoa pebbles box revealed your juvy mug you sick puppy!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Busted, I found this on lodgepole pine.

http://www.albertacanada.com/files/albertacanada/AIS-BP_LodgepolePine.pdf


----------



## johnstoneb

I think the Alberta lodge pole pine may be a different species than what we have in the lower 48. The lodgepole I'm familiar with is a lot softer more like this link

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/lodgepole-pine/

it's about a 480 on the Janka scale.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Bruce, they may not be too far apart. The Canadian site has hardness in Netwtons (2190) and your link for the domestic is 2140N if (big if) I'm reading it right.

Either way, pretty soft stuff.


----------



## donwilwol

Some minor mod's to the shop

This mess









Becoming a little flatter.



















It will be moved to the window. A new base will be provided. Maybe drawers? I'm not sure yet, but I need a better organization. About 2/3rds of the wood underneath became shop heat. Why did I save some of that crap?


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## merrill77

*BustedClock* - most any wood will do fine for a bench, with the exception of a few really light/soft species that are relatively hard to find anyway. IMO, well-dried and straight is far more important than the species. I actually would have preferred a softer wood for my top - if I drop a piece of walnut that I just finished dovetailing onto the edge of my bench, I'd much rather have a dent in the bench then in the part I just spent 3 hours on. I ended up using red and white oak because I had access to a lot of it really cheap. It's harder than I'd like and the open-grain is less than optimal, but it was well-dried and straight as a…uhhmm…straight as a really straight board 

FWIW, Schwartz agrees with this.


----------



## terryR

Woodcox, those handles came out awesome!

Pics or it didn't happen? I'd say in Don's shop IT HAPPENED. Looking good there, Don! Makes my shoulders a little sore just looking at the length of your bench.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Great proportions on that benchtop, Don. Add a base and put it in front of a window sounds like an Awesome Plan and will be make for a fine workspace.

Oh, and ditto on the sore shoulders note from tr…


----------



## donwilwol

Shoulders are ok. I had to cut it down to keep it inside the second window, so its just under 8'. I also had to regrind the cutters on my 605. I found some iron I wasn't aware of.

The new space









And where it was…..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's definitely an improvement!


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## Slyy

Don - bench looking flat, space looking nice, tills looking full as all get out! Most excellent.
What was the iron ya found?


----------



## lysdexic

Thanks for the shop porn Don. I agree definite improvement and great decision.


----------



## donwilwol

What was the iron ya found

Just some imbedded nails and/or screws. Not sure why they were driven in the top, but the bench was given to me, and who knows where it has been and what its been used for.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Don- I covet your windows and abounding natural light. Nice upgrade.

SYP run. Maybe another perk to living in the midwest. The BORG's around here don't carry SYP, but the big lumber yards do. It's a pretty solid bench material to be had around $1 a bd/ft. I also saw some solid 4×12 beams rolling out of the custom sawing area. Wheels turning in my mind.

Anyway, I didn't have to look very hard to find some nice boards. I'll let chill in my shop for awhile, then get going on some saw horses.


----------



## Armandhammer

Nice. No SYP here…just white wood. But we have poplar out the ying yang.


----------



## ToddJB

Busted Clock, I'm in Denver too. If you're willing I'd love to hear where you can get Kill Beetle for $1bf. I think it would make a beautiful bench.


----------



## john2005

I dunno Don, I see an empty hole in the plane till….and two on the bench. I also covet your abundant natural light.


----------



## ColonelTravis

5 different HDs for 10 good pine boards. One board was great, the rest were good. Fortunate to live in a big metro area with a lot of stores, but geez that was annoying. Don't know what the deal was with the 2×10 supply but it was supremely crappy. Gonna rip the sides, chuck the middles and have very nice boards for a 6-foot bench. Love to go larger but can't, but this will at least be substantial to do a lot of work on.


----------



## richardwootton

Looking good Colonel T, I had to dig through an entire stack of 2×4s to get the boards to laminate a bench top one time. I think the guys at the blue box store were getting pretty nervous that I was going to leave that whole pile in the middle of the lumber isle.


----------



## Slyy

ColT - it's a good start for sure! I hit up the two BORG's in my area to start looking for materials for Schwarz's saw benches, almost a total bust, the pine they had was miserable. Gonna try a few lumber yards this weekend, just found several that offer SYP instead of the BORG vanilla, I bet my luck will turn there!
Anxious to see you get started!


----------



## richardwootton

Jake, I've got to make a lumber run to get cracking on some saw benches also. I hate going to the big box store, but the drive to my hardwood dealer is about an hour away.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jake- Glad you found some Southern Yellow Pine. Often the lumber yards will have them. Builders like SYP joist because the have better load ratings than reg pine. As in, building codes allow them to cover longer spans.

That stinks you guys are having so much trouble finding decent pine. Are they stocking #2 grade? I was able to find these in the top couple layers.


----------



## kiefer

This is not exactly a bench but would make a useful top of the bench addition ,you never know .
Kind of works like a vice with variable angle capabilities that my help out .
















Comments and questions welcome ,good or not !


----------



## Slyy

Kiefer - is that something you put together? It's pretty slick looking, kind of like an improved more purposeful version of the wood hand screw clamp.
How are adjustments made to the traveling portion of the clamp? I see a wooden spacer in there, interchangeable for different angles? Also, is there a ratcheting mechanism (or teeth) laid into the under portion of the rail or is it friction?


----------



## kiefer

SLYY/Jake
Thanks for taking a look .
Yes this is my own design and creation .
I just posted this today in projects http://lumberjocks.com/projects/96025 ,take a look there for more pics and how it works .
If you have any questions feel free to ask .


----------



## terryR

Kiefer, that looks like an awesome addition to any shop! Nice work.


----------



## BustedClock

Smitty and Bruce, thanks for the info. I was in hopes, that it would be a little harder. But, honestly, I don't know nuthin about wear and tear on a bench. As merrill77 says, some folks believe soft is good-doesn't dent worked wood. On the other hand, isn't it hard to maintain flatness if the top dents when you look at it wrong? What else is wrong with a soft wood workbench?

Todd, here's what I was looking at: Mountain Heart Woodworks.. As usual, I misread the pricing list; it's $1.10 for "standard grade." "Furniture grade" is $1.50 to $2.50.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Y'know, as I'm sitting here thinking about wear and tear on a bench, there's this:

- The top has to be hard enough for dog holes to hold their shape. That's huge. And that can be ensure by using a strip of hardwood where the holes will be drilled (round) or made (square). So it's something that can be overcome with a bit of planning.

- The whole bench needs to hold it's shape against the stresses of handwork. That could be a big deal, but robust joinery can solve that too. As in, no half-laps. Through mortises, draw boring, etc. will do nicely.

The pounding I've done on my bench is dispersed, not focused. As in, I don't know how many times I've made 'pointed blows' to the top vs. mallet blows to workpieces that were sitting on the bench. I know RG has a pine workbench and it hasn't stopped him. Many others, including Paul Sellers, openly advocate pine for tops when it's in the neighborhood of 3" - 3 1/2" thick or so. In other words…
.
.
.
Go for it with what you have and / or can get, and use it. You'll know if it's too soft, and go from there.


----------



## merrill77

BustedClock - I haven't analyzed the wood database to look for correlation between hardness and movement, but from the species that come to mind, I don't think it's there. In other words, I don't think soft woods are more likely to warp/twist over time than harder woods. If staying flat is your concern, than proper milling, drying, joinery and assembly are the factors to be concerned with.


----------



## BustedClock

Thanks, folks!

Yes, I'm definitely thinking about M & T joinery. Any dovetail-like joinery will have to be big and robust. I think shipwright's wedged leg and tenon vises ought to work. I'll have to ask him about that.

I think the blue staining will certainly make an unusual workbench.

Randy


----------



## BigRedKnothead

BC- The only thing I don't like about the pine bench I built in the past was how easy it was to dent the top. Maybe it's because I hammer like lightening…

And no disrespect to Paul's wedge vise, but I really believe that the $38 a guy spends for the Lee valley leg vise is about the best bargain out there for a vise. Easy to build. Works like a champ.


----------



## BustedClock

Red,

Generally, I agree that hardware is great. But, in a piece that's supposed to be camouflaged, the wedge vises, or very expensive wooden vise screws, might fit the bill better.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

You lost me with "a piece that supposed to be camouflaged." Sorry, I don't know what you mean?


----------



## BustedClock

Oh, sorry. It's supposed to look furniture-ey since my only workspace is the living room in my apartment. I think things like wedge-vises, wood coloring (beetle-kill pine), etc. would help disguise the… industrial… character of the bench.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I see. Ya unless you aged/distressed it in some way….might not work. I painted mine black because I didn't like the booger green. 
Cue the Martha Stewart cracks.


----------



## CL810

I'm lost…


----------



## merrill77

IIRC, there was a picture posted a while back of a bench with the very pricey Bench Crafted hardware on it in a living room with a TV on it. Looked real nice as a piece of furniture. Waste of a fine bench, though.


----------



## shipwright

And no disrespect taken Red. That Lee Valley vice screw looks like a great deal. I personally just love to have something different especially if I get to re-invent the wheel in the process. The surprising thing to me was how well the bloody thing works. Now I have two of them!
To each his own. For me wedges are part of my history, a boat builder thing. I have great respect for them and enjoy having something nearby to hit really hard from time to time.


----------



## lysdexic

Stef finally built his bench…..


----------



## CL810

to hit really hard from time to time. 

I thought that's what golf balls were for….


----------



## BustedClock

Lysdexic

OMFG…


----------



## woodcox

It was said he is military. It was in the house/apt? while he is deployed.


----------



## Slyy

I've seen that one a couple of times Scott, but never heard any stories behind it or seen any action shots!
It is certainly a purty bench though!


----------



## lysdexic

I suspect nobody has seen it in action if you know what I mean.


----------



## terryR

Oh what a sweet bench!
What's the funny looking rectangular thing blocking the work area?


----------



## knockknock

He could of at least used the holdfasts to hold the TV down, in case of an earthquake.


----------



## Sylvain

If you look at the "literaryworkshop" blog, Steve Schuler has a workbench in his living room.
It is not a fancy workbench.
Secret: his wife also uses it. He keeps it clean. It is used for the buffet when they have visitors.

His small childrens are learning woodworking.


----------



## richardwootton

Where the hell did that guy find that much mahogany? Just the lumber alone in my area would cost a couple grand!


----------



## DubyaB

Thought I'd join the workbench smackdown thread with my first lumber jocks post!
I've been wanting to build this bench for years, and finally collected all the materials in early December and got started. Bench is all made of hard maple except the shoulder vise block which is spalted birch and shoulder vise plate, drawer pulls/accents which are jatoba. Finish is a mix of 1/3 BLO 1/3 Mineral spirits 1/3 Spar varnish wiped on two coats.

Dimensions are 64" long 20.5" deep and 33.5" high. The design is based on a bench by Gary Walchuck in an issue of Canadian Home Workshop. Only I made mine slightly longer and I couldn't decide on end vise or wagon vise so I built both! Wagon vise design was inspired by Mauricio here
Vise hardware is all standard vise screws from Lee valley, they come painted green, which I hated, so I stripped the paint and then followed a process I read in a benchcrafted blog to change the color of the cast iron. It was time consuming but sooo worth it!

This was a lot of fun and a lot of work! In total I have 60 or so hours into it over the last two months and just finished last night. Thanks to all the posters in this thread, it was a great inspiration! It functions so well and am looking forward to many years of use!
Hope you enjoy!
Warren


----------



## JADobson

That is a good looking bench Dubya! I like the way you've incorporated a wagon vise and an end vise.


----------



## merrill77

Nice!


----------



## richardwootton

That's a gorgeous bench dubya! Did you hand cut those tails?


----------



## john2005

That's a mighty fine piece there Warren. I especially like the triple vise. I woulda done the same just cuz.


----------



## DubyaB

Richard, yep all hand cut. Everything turned out excellent except the big one on the shoulder vise arm. Looks good in picture but there is a gap on the end grain side. Oh well .


----------



## dbray45

Nice work Warren


----------



## Mosquito

DubyaB that is a very nice looking bench.


----------



## mochoa

Dubya, that's a spectacular bench man! Love the three vices. Glad to be of some inspiration.

I've been in the car for over 5hrs, atlanta is paralyzed… No salt on the roads, no plows…


----------



## DubyaB

Thanks for the kind words folks!


----------



## CL810

Dubya, that's a fine bench. A fine first post.


----------



## terryR

Dubya, what an incredible bench! Love all the vice options!!!
Welcome!


----------



## mochoa

Dubya, I found a flaw with your bench… No leg vise, I mean you do have a free corner on that bench!


----------



## Slyy

Dubya that thing is absolutely fantastic. I really like the three wonderful drawers, nothing like extra storage! You've done a fabulous job on that bench!

Maur - that's AWFUL! Driving half an hour to work only to drive 3 times that back home is bad enough for me, hope that weather lengthened commute doesn't last much longer!


----------



## mochoa

9 hrs and counting, left the office at 12pm :-(
Getting close to home know though, walking distance


----------



## DubyaB

Mauricio, leg vise ya forgot that one! Hey good luck on your drive…brutal.
Jake, thanks ya the drawers were important for me too!


----------



## Slyy

Shoulda started a "Mauricio's epic drive home" thread…. Holy cow that's horrible! Dare I ask what distance this 9 hours is going? Cross country right?!? ;(


----------



## mochoa

Home safe at last, I had a fender bender and avoided countless others. But after over 10hours I am home at lasrt thank God!

I will never again go to the office when there is any amount of snow, I don't give a shiit what anyone says. Not in atlanta anyway, BS

Cheers!


----------



## lysdexic

Glad your home M. Hate you had to endure that.

How much earlier are going to leave in the morning to get to the office on time. Lets see, 10 hours to get home, so I figure if you leave now you might get back to work by 9 AM.

:^)


----------



## CL810

Glad you made it home Maur! Bet your family was happy as well.


----------



## lysdexic

I wonder how many people just ran out of gas.


----------



## Slyy

You've earned that beyond any measure of doubt! Glad you made it home safe! With Scott's (accurate likely) math, I think you've got time for one more, then you should oughta start heading back to the office…..


----------



## BrandonW

What's up bench guys?!

Mauricio, if your up for driving to my place, I'll break out the scotch. ;-) I lucked out and didn't hit any traffic or incidents on the way home but my wife had a pretty bad commute. ATL is just not equipped to handle snow.


----------



## mochoa

Terry, it was about 30mi, normally about a 1hr drive during rush hour not at 12pm.

Scott, not only am I not going into the office tomorrow, I'm not going to WORK tomorrow. I'm claiming PTSD, self-diagnosed, I've got friends that will give me a note if they need one. ;-). Embarrassing to say really, the VP of my department (the bosses boss) is a micromanager.


----------



## mochoa

Brandon, good to hear from you man, as good as that sounds I will take a rain check. ;-)

Glad your wife got home ok.


----------



## richardwootton

Cheers brother! I'd show you a picture of my beer at the bar but alas I'm on my damn phone. Folks here in the south have literally almost no clue how to drive in the ice and snow…


----------



## lysdexic

Nope. Not a clue and with my rear wheel drive empty pick up truck, I can prove it.


----------



## shipwright

Glad you're safe Mauricio. You can get a bunch of notes for your boss right here I'm sure.


----------



## mochoa

Awe man, people with rear wheel truve trucks, mercedes, bmw, were all in serious trouble.

Brandon, what I should have done was go crash at your house. We would have had a few drinks in us and made a few shavings by the time the wify got home.


----------



## CL810

Scotty, isn't your area prone to ice storms?


----------



## Slyy

and with my rear wheel drive empty pickup truck, I can prove it

Set. Point. Match.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Paul, and everyone for keeping me in your thoughts.

That shiit was so crazy, no one can drive on ice with not a lick of salt, I dont care where you are from. There is some skill in driving on ice I guess, If I had some i might have avoided my fender bender.

What do you do when there is a slant in the road, if you break you slide into the ditch, if you move forward you stay on the road, its a catch 22.


----------



## lysdexic

Yep, on average it is just a few degrees cooler than Atlanta.


----------



## mochoa

Slyy, you should have seen the people with Subaru's, looking so smug with their 4 wheel drive. I was hattin' on 'em.


----------



## ColonelTravis

28 F-ing degrees in Texas, got an un-built pile of wood freezing in the garage that one day will be a bench. Glad to know there are some scotch drinkers here. This stuff is absolutely delicious:


----------



## Slyy

M - know at least, I bet, that your first sip tasted sweeter likely than any sip those smug punks are having right now. You should look at it this way: they cheated their way through, you took the hard road! Victory in the face of defeat friend, that's the spice of life! Cheers!

Also, I'm on call, so I officially hate all of you.


----------



## lysdexic

I am on call tonight and, really, don't know what I'll do if I absolutely have to go in. Call the Sheriff I reckon. I hear that is what the hospital will do to get my arse in there. Otherwise I'd be sippin'


----------



## lysdexic

You too Jake?


----------



## Slyy

Yeah Scotty, no weather stoping me though. I'd have little excuse not to answer that phone unfortunately. Having been on call 2 years ago when we had almost 2 1/2' of snow (absolutely unheard of in OK) no WAY coulda have made it to the hospital even if I wanted. Plus I figured, by that point in time, if they were doing stuff that landed them in the hospital (dumb stuff) seemed like maybe they needed some extra time to reflect on why they went out in 2' + snow and ended up in the ER…..


----------



## lysdexic

Fortunately, in my semi-rural community hospital we have "cold" trauma or gentleman's trauma. That is by choice. Before medicine I flew for the Army and then for Wake Forest / Baptist. So, when I finally got out of the Air Force I actively picked a hospital where the helicopter always flies AWAY. So, most ortho crap that comes in I can bed down till the AM.


----------



## Slyy

Ortho only for me as well, but only level one trauma remotely in the area, thx for sending the helicopter


----------



## lysdexic

Imagine the phone conversation at 2AM. "What? An open femur AND a broken toe? Well, that is a multi-trauma and we are just not set-up for that. Yep, this needs a trauma center. Yep, this patient needs an I-40 consult. Good night."

Your welcome :^)


----------



## richardwootton

Well my (much older) four wheel drive diesel f250 was looking none too smug when I woke up and I couldn't get it to start because it was so damned cold! Thanks for neighbors? 
Jake and Scotty, the only thing I'm on call for is a hangover in the morning. best of luck brothers!


----------



## merrill77

Here in Raleigh, they are also cannot deal with the snow. But, after a few catastrophic storms since 2000, they have at least figured out how to sidestep the problem: Schools closed at noon yesterday. Snow started around 7-8p. Schools are closed today and I'm sure they will be tomorrow as well. I predict Friday, too. I'll probably be the only person in the office today. All for a puny 2" of snow! As a mid-westerner who learned to drive in the snow and had 15 years of practice before moving south, I get great amusement out of the panic here. Roads were described as "treacherous" by the DOT rep on the radio while I was driving in to work this morning. I had to laugh, as I was driving about 10 below the limit on the mostly-empty roads. Yeah, I'm one of those smug bastards in a Wrangler laughing at the "SUV"s stuck in the snow. They're the only ones I laugh at - I feel for the rest of you - especially the high-power RWD cards. You're screwed  But, I'm glad most people have the sense to stay at home. Driving on snow/ice is a skill that must be practiced and honed. I'm sure my skills have atrophied a bit since moving south, but I take every opportunity I can to drive in it and keep my skills up.


----------



## john2005

Ah the rewards of living 2 blocks from work. It sucks the rest of the year though lemme tell ya.


----------



## Armandhammer

I had to work (aka respond to calls in a cruiser) during a blizzard once. Literally. Driving around the county in 12+" of snow. It was actually fun. I like driving in the snow. Of course I have enough sense to do it in a 4wd when I do go out in the stuff.


----------



## Mosquito

I too like driving in the snow. I also drive a Subaru Forester now, though, so that may help out too. I like that my tires have 55k miles on 'em and aren't as good in the snow anymore. I can finally get it to slide around when I want to 

We spend millions on salt, sand, and other chemicals to help melt off roadways, so we can deal with small amounts of snow pretty well. Can't always be said for the drivers themselves though. No snow today, just cold, and the number of spinouts are insane… people need to pay attention to DRIVING and not their phone, makeup, meal, news paper, or whatever else they do while not driving…

When we're talking 6-12", though, all bets are off. Or when temps get below 0, as the chemicals don't work that cold.


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, we call it driving while distracted. Best one I've seen was a woman who was straightening her laundry hanging from the rear view mirror! Tooted at her, she flipped me off. :0(
As for tires,m I drive a 4wd Tacoma with Nokian Hakkapeliitta studded treads, work great on ice.
Now back to dreaming about my bench build! Trying to choose with of my three vises will be the end vise.


----------



## Slyy

TOF - that lady oughta win some kind of award!! I. Always a big fan of the swerving cars that you pass and notice the vanity mirror down and the makeup going on…...

To be on topic a bit, headed out to go check out the SYP options to start on Schwarz's saw bench.


----------



## DaddyZ

It's amazing what you can see I once saw a guy Playing his trumpet driving down the highway 65 MPH.

I thought WTF !!!


----------



## CL810

Kevin, refresh my memory, what are the three vises?


----------



## theoldfart

A non quick release Wilton, a recently acquired Shelton QR, and a really large and heavy strange QR. I'll post pics in a few min.
Edit , ok here we go. The Wilton 9" opening 7" wide









The Shelton again 9" opening and 7" wide. Unique QR system 









And the BIG one 12" opening and 10" wide, QR is also unusual









QR is underneath


----------



## john2005

The Shelton for sure. It's friggen cool!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Shelton for the win, definitely.


----------



## richardwootton

That Shelton QR is super cool! I've never seen one like that. TOF are you doing a leg vise also?

Jake, any luck finding some decent SYP?


----------



## theoldfart

Seems Chris Schwarz has the Shelton on one of his benches as well (the second book)
Leg vise, if all goes according to plan, will be a Lake Erie Screw with a Bench Crafted St Peter's Cross. The need for accurate drilling/routing will require much hesitation and beer before implementation.
Andy has set a high bar!


----------



## CL810

I thought I remembered something special about one of your vises Kevin. +1 on the Shelton.


----------



## bandit571

Can't see the top of my bench right now

Stopped and picked up a few rough planks. Only place in the Dungeon Shop to sit them is ON the bench.

Planks are 4/4×6 x 8' Black Walnut…..

Looking up a project for them to be used in.

Til then, bench is buried…

Six more weeks of this winter crap? Should be agin the LAW!! Even have Snow Rollers running aroubnd it the fields. Seems the winds, and the cold have teamed up to make a layer of snow roll up like a hay bale. Up to a foot wide, and some are almost a foot in diameter. Might be a few in one field, or a herd of hundreds in the next one. 16 mile commute sometimes takes an hour, on open roads….


----------



## DanKrager

I love that Shelton. I first saw those in my grade school shop. I managed to get one for $1 when the school closed the shop. Used it for many years on my own bench. Finally put it as the end vise on my SIL adjustable height workbench last year! 
DanK


----------



## TerryDowning

All this talk of the cold

I can't help myself









Nice Shelton QR


----------



## Slyy

Okay, deal is: whoever lives East most must drive toward Terry, picking us up along the way. I say when we get to his place, we drink all his liquor and beer, then maybe rough him up a bit for that smug mid-80's grin on his face?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Don't forget to swing by Iowa. Maybe the dreams I had while building my roubo will come true. The voices kept saying, "If you build it….they will come."


----------



## theoldfart

OK the Shelton wins. The wife and I are in on the road trip, in fact we are already planning one for the fall.


----------



## TerryDowning

If you want liquor, you better BYO there ain't none in da cupboard.

As for beer, you'll have to split my remaining 5 Heinekens left over from Turkey Day. (so first come first served)

I'm not really a big drinker.

The very same weather pattern freezing the east is causing the drought in the west. Stupid high pressure system in the Great Basin. While I don't want o freeze, 80 degree temps in Jan with High wind warnings and a 12 month Wild fire season is getting old.

BTW we are about to start a cooling trend
this weekend is supposed be "normal" mid 60s with a chance of rain. Maybe the east will start to normalize as well. I lived in South Dakota for 2 yrs so I do understand cold. I don't ever want to live in it again.


----------



## lysdexic

TD - can you post the ten day forecast because we can not all be there until next weekend.


----------



## TerryDowning

for Scotty










Fri is the same as Thur couldn't clip the image on one screen damn snipping tool


----------



## theoldfart

The man is cruel, no doubt about it. We'll have to check in this summer and see if he's still smiling!


----------



## CL810

I'm in on the road trip and I'll even bring my own and some for my east coast boys. Kevin you better get a van cause it sounds like the road trip is growing!


----------



## Slyy

That seals it TD, we're coming over. Best clear the guest room and pull out the nice china!

Clayton, have you seen Kevin's van?


----------



## Airframer

Looks legit..


----------



## CL810

I heard the rumors but refused to believe!!!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Saw benches underway. The pine just screams, "Work me….Plane me!" 








-
Legs are glued up. Put a new skin on my outfeed table. I love being productive.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, Jake will this work?









Not quite the CandyMobile but it does have toys!
On the way back we can load up Red's tools.


----------



## theoldfart

BTW, anybody know how many guest rooms in Reds place?


----------



## theoldfart

ALSO, Andy how about an update on your leg vise. Still working ok? Going to have to slap down some dinero shortly for the screw and cross.


----------



## Slyy

Kevin, only if it still has candy…

Red I'm jealous, I need to get my build on!


----------



## Airframer

I don't know about guest rooms but his shop looks like it could sleep 20 or so.. and once you liberate the tools you could easily push that to 40ish..

I'll just be way up here in the PNW sippin' my cup o' joe in my shop… by myself.. never mind me.. *sniff.. I'll be fine…


----------



## shipwright

Chilly over there in California is it Terry?
Green Valley Az


----------



## CL810

Kevin don't even try to change the subject. What's up with the van & free candy. ;-)

Vise is doing great. I can't imagine that you'll have any regrets.


----------



## widdle

Ya man..i just put socks on..fogs rollin in..


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, a guys gotta do what a guys gotta do. With Stef, Tony and BHog around, pickins is gettin thin.


----------



## CL810

Oh man this place is tooooo funny.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Don't forget the 10×12 shed out back. Should sleep a good 8 or so LJs. Sometimes I have to sleep out there….if I had to much of the Rye.


----------



## CL810

I bet it has a well broken in cot.


----------



## Slyy

Geez, between this thread, the shop thread (with Bhog rattlin' the floorboards) and the hand plane thread, if you can't be entertained, there's sumfin wrong with you!!


----------



## JayT

Don't take this wrong, but I'm pretty sure that being crammed in a car with some of y'all for a couple days isn't worth the warmer temps. Luckily, Red is east of me, so I wouldn't have to worry about what might happen in a small, dark shed. :-o


----------



## widdle

Red..i have tried to ignore it..but your short a few nails above the door… sorry but couldn't let it go..


----------



## widdle

and the second row of paper above the window..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh, I'm over that already widdle. But I'm still all butt hurt that this website is so jacked up now that my screwdriver project couldn't make the Daily Top 3. There goes my self-esteem.


----------



## richardwootton

Red, I'm more than a little upset that your "shed" is probably the size of my apartment! And as a side note, I call dibs for crashing on top of Red's Roubo . . . I'm just worried about you guys putting a blue wig on me and taking pictures while I'm passed out. That ish ain't gonna make it to an LJ calendar!


----------



## Slyy

^^ - now THAT'S funny!


----------



## richardwootton

Ok so sort of back on topic. I got a line on kiln dried white oak, red oak, and for for $1.00 a board foot about 15 minutes from me. So I'm going on Sunday to pick up about 100 board feet of white oak, and maybe some cherry and red oak if finances allow. The white oak however should be enough to complete my Roubo along with the oak that I already have. The only downside is that it's all 4/4 so I'm going to have to do A LOT of laminating. But shoot, at that price, I can afford the extra glue!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Richard, that sounds like a solution and the price is great. You'll be expert at glue ups soon; got plenty of clamps?


----------



## john2005

I hear ya Richard. The wood I finally got was 4/4 rough birch, but cheap. I am at 1.25 gal tb II so far and still have to assemble the base. But the savings was worth it. In my case allowed me to get a few walnut boards for accent. They were ones everybody else had picked over so got a deal on them too. Had to be creative in the the cutting but it will be cool and look like I spent waaaaay more than I actually did. Go for it!


----------



## richardwootton

Smitty, getting more clamps was the first thing that crossed my mind after the seller and I agreed to a time to meet up on Sunday. We'll see how much scratch I can scrounge before Sunday rolls around and I might just come home with a truck bed filled with hardwood!


----------



## donwilwol

White oak with some cherry accents?? Niiiccceee


----------



## richardwootton

Oh that does sound nice Don! I'll probably end up using my pine beater top on top of my pretty bench so I don't mess it up!


----------



## richardwootton

Now Brandon might not approve, but maybe even a walnut leg vise chop? This might be getting too busy . . .


----------



## terryR

Pine beater bench top? Somebody call? 










Congrats on the oak at $1 per bf, Richard…got a trailer load of 4/4 cherry headed my way today for FREE! Well, to be honest, I helped mill it, stack it, re-stack it under the kiln, and provided kiln plans, so I guess I've sorta paid for it with elbow grease! LOL


----------



## BillWyko

Just turned 50 myself on Thursday. I'm still going with my latew 30's though.


----------



## donwilwol

4/4 cherry for free. That's some good living right there.


----------



## richardwootton

Terry awesome bench porn man! You're making me jealous with all of that free Cherry. Are those all LN planes?


----------



## lysdexic

Richard - those are all LN's

large router plane
large shoulder plane
a #95
small router
bronze beading tool
a #62
a #164
a #4 1/2
a #112


----------



## donwilwol

what's with all the LN porn today?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

It's the only kind of porn I like;-)


----------



## richardwootton

Don, I think Red! What happened to your bench??


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Not my photo. LN tool event.


----------



## terryR

Thanks for covering for me, ScottyB…

Don, only got about 100 bf of cherry DELIVERED today, but mostly because the purpose of today was load the Jeep on the trailer and get it to my buddy's shop. More cherry…more cherry…










more LN porn…


----------



## Slyy

Terry - jealous of rhat free cherry!! I've got "some" cherry from our ice storm a month or so ago but it's log form and only about 2' long by about 12" wide. Just found local mill though with white/red oak at .75$ a bf.
Of course it's the not so good stuff but it's good for practice and might make a good investment for a bench!!!
Their better grade (nearly FAS) is 1-1.50$ a bf. not bad at all I think!!


----------



## richardwootton

Jake those sound like great prices to me! I thought $1.00 a board foot was a steal. Any time you can get 100 board feet of oak for under a hundred bucks is a great deal.


----------



## donwilwol

Terry, that a great shot. I'm not a fan of the finish on the cherry. It needs oil.


----------



## lysdexic

Don, I am pretty sure LN uses an oil finish on its totes. However, they are very light and glossy when new. At first, I couldn't get past the color of the totes that are pictured on their website. But when you go to a hand tool event the totes are dramatically different, not glossy and very dark. I guess it is from the oils of a thousand hands.

Mine are significantly darker over the past year or so. Thank goodness.


----------



## john2005

"ONLY" 100 bf he says. Yer killin me Terry!


----------



## terryR

Honestly, I'm NOT a fan of cherry totes and knobs, especially on a premium plane. If my LN's don't darken in a year or so, I'll re-finish them darker.

Although, at the moment, I'm having too much fun actually making rabbets and dadoes that fit the corresponding piece of wood. New for me!  I spent the past year learning how to restore a plane and make shavings with sticky sharp irons…now I wanna build…

John, you should see the size of my shop…swallowed that 100 bf like a missing allen wrench. Lucky for me, the cherry is straight off the sawmill, so I'll get lots of practice squaring boards by hand, and then flattening panels by hand…Gonna have arms the size of BigRed in a year! LOL


----------



## theoldfart

Arms the size of BRK is ok, just don't get his big head! (snicker, chortle, tee hee) Probably got it bragging about a big LN haul. You did here about it didn't you?


----------



## donwilwol

I'm ok with Cherry, just not the finish. It makes the cherry look pale. I agree, mine has darkened as well.

Sure would like some cocobolo.


----------



## terryR

+1 to the cocobolo desire.

I have a small stash, but ain't cutting nothing over 6/4 thick till my new moisture meter arrives. Have had two pieces crack after being turned on the lathe!


----------



## DanKrager

TerryR, my lathe will still be working when it's dry…
DanK


----------



## donwilwol

Have had two pieces crack after being turned on the lathe! 

Says the guy who just built a drying tent.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

+2 to cocobolo


----------



## terryR

Yep, Don, a shop kiln is going to happen very soon! I have all the parts, but it'll take a week to clear the space! LOL. That pretty Bloodwood split nut driver I made cracked in 2 places…lil epoxy and it still works fine, but just sayin'


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"Probably got it bragging about a big LN haul. You did here about it didn't you?"
-
-








-
-
I don't mind the cherry. I like the idea of using American hardwoods. What the story with that saw handle Terry?


----------



## theoldfart

Funny except a donkey(jackass). Hmmmm Now I feel violated!


----------



## terryR

Red, nothing going on with that Gramercy tote…just a prop for the split nut driver! 

AND, I certainly won't be too big headed about all my LN haul…until I learn the skills to match them!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

No Kev, your getting your roles messed up. I'm the pouting donkey

My other vises are gettin lonely. I use this moxon A LOT. I just the the height. So does my back.


----------



## theoldfart

Red looks like the saw bench is moving along well. And I remove the violation accusation as well!
You can use it on Seattle. !!!!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

double post.


----------



## theoldfart

Is there an echo in here?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Why does LJs keep doing that to me? I'm certainly not typing my stinkin posts twice. Grrrrr.


----------



## theoldfart

Site improvements, you just don't understand.


----------



## Slyy

Red, seeing you working on that bench makes me wish the 4" of snow didn't just fall and close down this whole part of the state! Was gonna go pick up some SYP and some oak for those guys today!


----------



## richardwootton

Red your Moxon is part of your joinery bench, right?


----------



## CL810

Site improvements, you just don't understand.

LOL!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Richard, right….the not quite finished joinery bench. I think it's like 46" tall. Perfect for me. I'm gonna start the lower cabinets for it this next month.









-
-
Jake- the saw benches are good fun to build. I like working with SYP. The smell of pine reminds me of my childhood in CO. And it works so nicely. Other than the initial ripping, I've been all galoot on them.

Terry and Don got me wondering about the aging of cherry on LN totes. Here you go. A 2 year old vs a 1 month old:


----------



## shampeon

Boo hoo hoo. My beautifully LN planes, pieces of superb industrial craftsmanship, merely have cherry knobs. WHY GOD!? WHY!??


----------



## richardwootton

Funny that you mention the height of your bench. I've been working on one that is about 38" and I'm not as tall as you but I think it's too short for me to be comfortable planing for any length of time. I'm thinking 40" might be a better fit.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Hey, I said I like the cherry. I sure am getting mocked a lot today

Time for beer and broncos.


----------



## Slyy

Ian - sometimes there are crimes against humanity you just can't do anything about…. Almost makes you feel sorry for them….. Or not?


----------



## theoldfart

Got the beer, where's the Broncos"s?


----------



## bandit571

Ever get boards too big for the bench to handle?









16 bf of Black Walnut that was just sitting around in my old shop. Almost couldn't get it into the caravan to bring to the Dungeon Shop. Had to haul each board down the stairs to the bench, too much to carry at once.

Might try to get some worked down









Thinking maybe a toolbox of some sort. Also have some other woods for the inside stuff. A Single Brain Cell Sketch-up is a-working the cut list right now. THAT might take a day or two….


----------



## bandit571

better???


----------



## JayT

I like my walnut knobs & totes


----------



## theoldfart

Richard, 40"?! How tall are you? How do you get your weight over the plane?


----------



## shampeon

Red: I wasn't busting you. If anything, your LN jewelry pics are the biggest counter-argument to complaints about cherry knobs and totes.


----------



## mochoa

Red how high is your joinery bench?


----------



## richardwootton

TOF, I'm just over 6' but my legs are crazy long. I'm guessing 40" might be over kill and should maybe rethink that. I was reflattening my beater bench top the other night and it felt awkward and my lower back was feeling it. But my back may have been hurting from a long day at work and not the planing height.


----------



## richardwootton

Maur, in #9198 I think he said about 46"


----------



## theoldfart

Richard keep in mind your work will be 1 to 2" higher than the bench top. I'm 5'10" and my bench will be about 31" or so and I use metal planes. if I used wood planes I'd lower it another inch.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I know Ian. Except I'm not goofin about Bandits "cherry" post. That one was a little creepy.

Richard that does seem a little tall. Everyone is different though. I'm 6'7" or so. My roubo is 37" and my joinery bench is 46". I have no regrets with either.


----------



## widdle

I dont totally understand the joinery bench ..besides working end grain at 90 degrees, what are the other benefits ? Almost seems like a bench with a big 45 degree corner would be more usefull ?


----------



## bandit571

Hey, the Bandit did catch two cherry items









Along with two things of walnut


----------



## JayT

Joinery bench is mainly to raise workpieces up for easier sawing and sight. Red has room for a dedicated joinery bench (lucky dog), while others of us make do with portable benches that rest on our main workbench.


----------



## richardwootton

TOF that does make a lot of sense. I use metal planes, and have never worked on a shorter bench before. Before I settle on a final height I'll trim the legs on my current bench to find out what will be the most comfortable working height for me.


----------



## theoldfart

Rather than trim the bench maybe make some platforms on the floor and experiment that way.


----------



## merrill77

richard - if your lower back is hurting during heavy planing, that may be an indication the bench is too high, not too low. As I understand it, during heavy planing, you should mostly be using your arms, legs and abs. You can't use your abs and legs as much if the bench is too high. I could be wrong, but that's been my experience.

That said, my lower back hurts when the bench is too low during long periods of light-duty detail work - from bending over the work. As a result, I made my bench higher since I do that more than I do heavy planing. I have a platform I drag out that I stand on for heavy planing, effectively lowering the bench 4".


----------



## richardwootton

That totally makes sense guys. I'll throw together some platforms and see what works best.


----------



## theoldfart

Good luck, let us know how it works out.


----------



## BustedClock

theoldfart & bigred:

Don't even think the word Broncos. Whoever was playing against the Seahawks, they weren't the Broncos I've been watching all season long. I need to find a piece of wood I can beat the living excrement out of!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Busted clock- ya, that was a rather disappointing end to a great season. Wuddyaagonnado.

Widdle- I don't think joinery benches are nearly as important as your primary bench, but the reasons for mine are primarily:
- A taller, more fitting location for a permanent moxon vise.
- More counter space and storage.


----------



## ToddJB

Is there a reason that the joinery bench isn't built into the main bench? Like on the two sides of the bench that typically do not have vises on them? Is there a functional reason to not have anything on those two sides, or is the issue that a joinery bench should be higher than a wood working bench? If it needs to be higher… how much? I could bust a hole in my floor and dig a trench to stand in.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I don't know if there are definite answers to your questions Todd. Lotta preference. I can tell your for sawing dovetails, marking and cutting joints….and so on a taller bench is easier on the eyes and the back.

Really, I just read about the benefits from Tolpin and others. And I had the space….so I built one.


----------



## Armandhammer

I think I'm going to build a taller bench for joinery and if I find the need, I'll build a platform to stand on for planning. I think that I'll do more stuff on my bench than just woodworking and a short bench just won't be a good option. Perhaps once I get an actual shop space I can build a second short bench.


----------



## shampeon

Armandhammer: Given the choice, build a good short workbench and add a bench-on-bench to do the sawing and joinery at a comfortable height. Using a stool or platform for planing doesn't sound like a great idea, to be honest. You'll use more of your core body strength for hand planing, and a taller bench would need more support to counteract those forces. And the physics of balancing on top of a stool or platform while planing sounds difficult.


----------



## DanKrager

...different heights easily…that's why there's an adjustable base in the works for mine. Picture already posted a while back.
DanK


----------



## widdle

"I like to have a 4' chunk of 4" x 8" in the shop as a step if needed….
I sort of think a moxon style vise cut in at a 45 would be more usefull ? Or any bench..we have to be either parallel or at a ninety…just thinking out loud…carry on..


----------



## woodcox

I'm just gonna dig a hole in front of my bench.


----------



## KayBee

Good timing. I spent part of the weekend thinking about this same thing. I've been using wire shelving but don't really like that everything is coated in dust. And the smaller parts keep falling through the shelves and end up on the floor. Thinking about something like this.


----------



## lysdexic

+1 to What Ian said.

Still I have plans to cannibalize my Moxon and move it into a dedicated joinery bench as described by Tolpin.


----------



## richardwootton

Today I had a wonderful experience meeting one of the sweetest older women I've ever had the chance to know. After her husband, who was a woodworker and sawyer, passed away there was a lot of lumber left behind. An entire semi truck trailer filled with red and white oak, pine, and some walnut. Then another trailer, which was smaller, but not small, was filled with Cherry. I was running a little low on cash, so I wasn't able to get as much as I wanted, but for $63 I brought home about 120 board feet of red oak today, almost all of it as clear as can be. All 4/4, 6" wide and 10.5 feet long. 









I took a few minutes to start cleaning up saw marks on a board.


----------



## GregInMaryland

I am in some serious trouble and need your collective wisdom. I built my bench a year or so ago, linky and I love it. And I respect it. And I would never cheat on it. But I have lust in my heart. You see, I want to build another bench. I don't need another bench, I don't have the space, money or time for another bench. I just want to build another one. This one gets me really excited (to build bench, that's all. My wife takes care of the rest): Moravian Workbench

My young sons will need a workbench of their own, right? It's not too indulgent to make a 4 1/2 and a 6 1/2 year old their own workbenches is it?

I know that this is a plaintive cry for help, but I don't know how to snap out of it myself.

Greg


----------



## Slyy

Dang richard that's a pretty sweet score! What ya gonna do with it?!?


----------



## richardwootton

Jake, that's going towards my Roubo. Sure, there might be some assembly required . . . but hell, that's the fun part! The 4×4 shown in the second picture is Poplar, and I have several of those that are going to be my smaller, indoor work bench, that will stay with me in my loft so I can work inside while the weather is less than comfortable.


----------



## richardwootton

Greg, I'm totally in love with the Moravian style workbench. There's just something so aesthetically pleasing about that design.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Greg, of course they need benches! Build them! What's taking so long??? 

- Richard, incredible score!


----------



## Armandhammer

So I wonder where one could find some LVL? Would Lowes/HD be able to get it? I've never seen anything like that in the stores or is it more of a specialty item that you get someplace else? It's very interesting and I bet makes heck of a bench top.


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## lysdexic

There is something intriguing about the Moravian with a skewed leg vise. I could do without the apron on this particular bench.


----------



## lysdexic

One of the things that caught my eye in the pic that Greg linked to was the floor. Look at the width of the planks used. You don't see that anymore.


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## BigRedKnothead

Or this….









http://blog.lostartpress.com/2012/09/23/will-myers-moravian-workbench/


----------



## Airframer

Greg - Of Course they need benches! I plan on making my boy something like this.. once he can stand up on his own that is lol…


----------



## CL810

*Greg*, are you saying your 4 & 6 year olds DO NOT already have their own bench?!? I'm surprised child welfare authorities aren't knocking on your door right now. Better get to work right away.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Are we helping Greg?;-)

Richard- congrats on the lumber score. Looking forward to your build.


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## widdle

Those are stylin for sure..im staartin th lean toward a tail vise with an L block..


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## widdle

Those are stylin for sure..im staartin th lean toward a tail vise with an L block..


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## lysdexic

Looks like that vise handle barley clears the floor


----------



## lysdexic

Dang, it looks like that vice handle barely clears the floor.

Edit: double post, but I corrected my Freudian slip.


----------



## CL810

Red, I think Richard's prices are lower than what you pay! What's up with that?


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## CL810

On a serious note…. What is the benefit of splayed legs?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I've never touched 50cents a board ft. Got a new place I wanna check out though:

http://www.eastperulumber.com/home


----------



## richardwootton

As soon as I have some more cash not destined for other things I'm taking my a$$ back out there to pick up more. I'm thinking a couple hundred more board feet wouldn't hurt anything. I just need to get rid of my extra table saw now.


----------



## lysdexic

Heh….heh. He said "splayed legs."


----------



## richardwootton

Tee hee . . . Those dirty moravians always splay their legs. Too far?


----------



## Slyy

No Freudian slip to "spread legs"? I'll Admit those Moravians do have a certain sense of style!


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## CL810

Well, I tried to be serious with the wrong crowd.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

LOL….I was gonna say, "ask the blue haired girl." I knew that one wouldn't go untouched.

I can see how splayed legs would help racking. But also leave it vulnerable to downward pressure…....ohhh, for cryin out loud. Sounds bad no matter what you say


----------



## widdle

hard to figure out what hat lumer yard has goin on Red..


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## BigRedKnothead

$1.50 bd/ft oak and walnut is what they've got goin on!

Ya, that's how the mom n pop mills are around here. Not much of a website. Surprised they have one. Usually just need to call and check them out. Some know what they're doing more then others(drying, grading). They always beat the crap out of retail though.


----------



## widdle

those prices would help profits, not less than 6 out here


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## john2005

Nice score Richard!


----------



## DanKrager

Greg in Maryland, why don't you build some scale miniature benches? If you include great detail, they are as challenging as a full size bench and just as good looking. They could even be sold for a profit, don't take up much space, and your boys might enjoy them a bit before they are sold. Just a thought.
DanK


----------



## terryR

The splayed legs are for stability, right? I'm not sure I've seen a splayed legger with straight leg vice…kinda like it!

Yo Lys, wanna see some wide boards in person? Come look at the walnut loft in our 1920's barn. All 8/4 thick, some of the boards are 16-22" wide! And 12 feet long. With your help, maybe we can steal a few and replace them with PT pine before my wife gets home from work! . The loft is about 50×70 feet…

Let's see if I can pull off arithmetic after 1/2 cup of coffee…(50×70)=3500×2= about 7,000 bf of air dried walnut! Goodness gracious, I need to talk with the wife…


----------



## chrisstef

Good God Terry, up here that loft flooring is worth a cool $70k. Yup $70,000 American dollars at retail cost. Green backs will do some talkin that cannot be reproduced by your wife's husband. Seventy … Thousand .. Dollars. Add in that its as wide as it is and you could probably up the ante another $10k. Eighty Thousand Semolians.

All im sayin is that ill buy the walnut Danish oil, enough to cover 3500 square feet and one by one we'll replace those 8/4 boards with some 4/4 poplar stained to look like walnut while we send your wife off to Mexico for an all inclusive 5 star vacation for a week. Hell lets make it 2 weeks so we got a little time to build something.


----------



## mochoa

The think I don't like about the bench on bench is that is clunky and storage is awkward. But if you don't have room for two benches its probably the best option.

I'm working on an English style bench that will be much taller than my French planning bench. There has been some interesting English bench news lately, McGuire is building one: http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/?p=2170









He keeps talking about the merits of the English bench but hasn't gone into much detail yet. Teaser…..

Also, Schwarz is teaching son in England and posted a pic of the school where he will be. The benches are pretty interesting. In particular the benches that have the apron spaced apart from the top. This allows you to use clamps to hold stuff to the top which is pretty cool. 









Kind of starts to resembe a 21st century workbench

Greg, why not sell your old one? I bet you could get a nice chunk of change for it. The Moravian bench is very sexy. LOL, I was just trying to talk my 6yr old into helping me build him a bench the other day. 

Wow the Kids size Roubo is awesome!


----------



## john2005

I wanna play in the 'nut barn too!


----------



## waho6o9

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/wMyers/morBclass/morBclass-06.asp

Moravian Workbench Class by Will Myers

Good stuff:

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/wMyers/moravianBench/moravianBench-01.asp


----------



## NinjaAssassin

"I wanna play in the 'nut barn too!"

...


----------



## richardwootton

I'd love to take the Moravian bench class with Will. Does Roy teach in that class also?


----------



## widdle

seems to me if one works primarily in the center of the bench, the splayed legs give you a bit more room for your feet..


----------



## richardwootton

Widdle, that's something I hadn't thought about. I don't know why, but the angled leg vise is just cool!


----------



## GregInMaryland

If I recall, the bench can be disassembled into major components. Perphaps splayed legs assist in stability on less than fixed benches.

Armandhammer, my bench is made from a LVL hybrid. I picked it up at a recycling center, so I cannot begin to tell where it was manufactured or by whom. I have seen straight LVL at the BORG.

Thanks for all the support guys. I am building up to a big project and trying to finish a few other projects. Maybe later in the year I'll resist temptation and build a bench for my kids As was pointer out, I am a neglectful parent.

Greg


----------



## mochoa

My kids work at my bench on this:


----------



## mochoa




----------



## john2005

That's awesome Mauricio!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

It is. My poor kids still pull out a car ramp…lol.


----------



## richardwootton

Maur where's your leg vise in that last picture?


----------



## Armandhammer

My build has officially started. Sorta. Got the legs rough cut and a couple stretchers cut. I need to cut the rest of the stretchers and get everything planed/sized. Lay out joinery and start chopping some mortise and tenons.

Anyone have some hardwood dowels they'd be willing to sell me? I'm planning on getting a dowel plate soon but right now it's not in the budget. But then again, I guess if I can buy dowels I can probably just buy the plate…lol I'm going to do some draw boring on the long stretchers and probably pin the short ones with dowels as well just for a little added strength and to practice doing it.


----------



## mochoa

It hadnt been built yet in that pic.

I just started a forum topic about getting kids started in woodwokring. Check it out! http://lumberjocks.com/topics/57862


----------



## bandit571

For Smitty









Crochet and a C clamp to do edges with?

Or, my version of a bench hook









To plane a few faces? Did use the leg vise a few times, too









Nice and smooth on the Walnut face grain









Ankle deep in walnut shavings right now…


----------



## Slyy

Catching up:

Okay, party at Terry's barn!

Maur - really liking the bench stools for your youngins!

AF - glad you're getting started, should be a lot of fun.


----------



## chrisstef

Well done bandito. Nice chunk of walnut to boot!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ah, say YES to the crochet!


----------



## theoldfart

Milestone, finally ripped the wood for the bench top! Mongo is happy! :0)> Glue up this weekend.


----------



## CL810

Got clamps?


----------



## waho6o9

You can make your own dowels if need be:

http://woodgears.ca/dowel/making.html


----------



## john2005

Totally feeling like the pig in a bacon and eggs breakfast….committed.


----------



## widdle

It's on now..right on john..What kind of lumber we lookin at there


----------



## Armandhammer

Very cool waho6o9. I might have to try the one using a chisel. I don't have a router so I can't do that one.


----------



## woodcox

Well worth the effort with all of the laminations John. It looks amazing!


----------



## richardwootton

Looking awesome John! Outside of walnut, what is the other species?


----------



## richardwootton

I also like the shop log on the left. Totally necessary!


----------



## theoldfart

test run
















I need to mill some cherry for accent boards. Rough top dimensions are 4 1/8" thick 7'+ long and still thinking about width. Possibly 22" to 23". Bench height will be 31" give or take 1/2".
Legs and stretchers have been cut for several months and the top is heavy!


----------



## CL810

Kevin, when you say "test run" are you going to glue the entire top at one time?


----------



## theoldfart

ABSOLUTELY NOT !!! I just wanted to get a feel/looksee at the final thing. I'm planing on doing two to three boards at a time. This will be much easier to manage. I picked up the whole top and struggled with it and I still need to add three or so inches of width!


----------



## john2005

Lookin sweet there OF! That's gonna be niiiice.

Wood is birch and walnut. You're lookin at the bottom there so don't worry about the big crater at the end there. I'm going to flip it and come at it again from the other side, kind of a meet in the middle sort of thing.

As for the log, that would be a couple of wild cherry my buddy brought back from a job in WA this weekend. Haven't figured what to do with them yet but we will.


----------



## theoldfart

John, really nice job on the breadboards. Can you post a top and bottom pic of the end vise end? I'm doing the same setup as you and the same leg vise arrangement as CL810.


----------



## CL810

John, Oh HELL yes!

Kevin, I thought that's what you'd do. I did 3 or 4 at a time as well. I also used dowels to keep the boards flush during clamping. And definitely get some help picking that top up - no back injuries during ski season!


----------



## richardwootton

TOF that bench top is huge! Lookin' good brother.


----------



## john2005

Will do Kevin. I will try to get out there this evening for ya.


----------



## theoldfart

John, thanks.


----------



## Airframer

Get 'er Done Kevin! Lookin' good!! Maybe you can join the "I started my bench after Stef and finished before him" Club soon


----------



## JayT

Kevin, that is going to be a nice benchtop.

Eric, to be fair the "I started my bench after Stef and finished before him" club is really not that exclusive, the membership list is getting pretty long. ;-)


----------



## Airframer

You're right.. And that is a more appropriate name for the club… post updated ;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

See John and OF, this is what happens when guys stretch out a bench build for so long….they get to answer a lot of the same questions;-)

I should be slapping some finish on my saw benches later today. Getting all galooty on 'em. 








-








-


----------



## richardwootton

With the pace at which I've been working Stef will probably finish his bench and knock out a couple saw benches.


----------



## Slyy

Red those are long great, waiting for the weather to clear up so I can get some wood for my own!

John that top is looking great, the laminations are awesome!

TOF dry run is looking great too!


----------



## Airframer

Richard - you don't want to start setting unattainable goals for yourself.. it's unhealthy. Try for something more realistic like.. NOT being slower than Stef


----------



## donwilwol

Red, you need to show some pictures of a "normal" project you just throw together, just so we know you're actually human. Those saw benches look…..well…...like their Red built.


----------



## richardwootton

Eric, well played man! I have started cleaning up the saw marks on some of that red oak. The man who sawed and dried this wood knew what the hell he was doing. There's almost no checking, twist, warp or blade wander, etc… Pretty friggin' sweet!


----------



## widdle

Lookinn good of..


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks all. Can't believe I started out thinking it was going to be 8' long, dumb ass!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Don. They're just from the Schwarz's plans. Didn't feel like I needed to reinvent the wheel when there's a good design out there already. 
Should have had those saw benches done last week but my sinuses have been kicking my arse. Doc put me on the devils little tic-tacs (prednisone). Darn steroids have me feeling 10ft tall and bulletproof….so watch out.


----------



## theoldfart

Prednisone for sinus, watchu got in there; concrete? Glad your doing better.

Edit maybe a trade mark/tag line for Red "their Red built" courtesy of DonW!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"Red, you need to show some pictures of a "normal" project you just throw together, just so we know you're actually human."

I second that motion, Don…


----------



## mochoa

Kevin that bench is going to be awesome man!

Red, I like the saw benches.


----------



## chrisstef

Sheesh the old boys takin a thumpin here today lol. She'll get done …. Some day.


----------



## richardwootton

I want to see some more of that quarter sawn reclaimed fir goodness you got there Stef!


----------



## chrisstef

Yea i hear ya buddy. Its been on saw horses in the basement for far too long. It probably needs a good hug, all lonely.


----------



## JayT

She'll get done …. Some day.

Yep, probably when Lil Stef takes up woodworking and decides he needs a bench.

Dude, you are making bustin' your balls way too easy today.


----------



## ToddJB

John, that bench is going to be so gorgeous.

Kev, yours are massive.

Red, fancy.


----------



## theoldfart

Maur, thanks.

Stef, wasn't the back of your neck tingling? That weren't snow boy!


----------



## lysdexic

There is some excellent content here today gentlemen.

Bench builds
Stef smack down.
Red makes me feel inadequate again

Carry on….


----------



## DonBroussard

This is definitely a good place to be to get humbled quick. Nice work, fellas. Good wit and great craftsmanship with high quality adult beverages sprinkled in between.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

LOL…oh for cryin' out loud. There's nothin special about my saw benches. Any of you could build them.

Which reminds me, if anyone wants to build their confidence with hand tools…SYP is the stuff. Saws, chisels and planes wonderfully.


----------



## john2005

Hey Kevin, this what you are after? Sorry I wasn't able to make it out last night. Family stuff.



















Still haven't decided if I want to put that 4th lag bolt in. Not sure if it will interfere with clamping or not. Thoughts?


----------



## richardwootton

John that's awful purdy! Do the lag bolts on the bread board ends interfere with wood movement?


----------



## theoldfart

John , exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. I dohave a question though. Aren't the lag bolts redundant? You have the mechanicl properties of the dovetails angles to hold the top flat. Are the bolts there for added strength?
I would think that the stresses from the vise will be towards the the top, not away from it.
Again thanks for the pics.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I don't know the answers to all those questions, but I do know that benchtop is a thing of beauty…


----------



## JayT

Sweet, John! The whole top is gorgeous. Can't wait to see it with finish and I really like the way the grain pattern on that last pic flows right into the dovetail.


----------



## john2005

Thanks guys. Basically, Kevin, to answer your questions on the lags, I have a problem with over-doing it sometimes. This may very well be one of those times. I did slightly oversize the holes to allow for movement though. We'll see what happens.


----------



## donwilwol

I can't see why you'd need the lags either, but that is one nice looking top. To nice to beat up on. Nice job.


----------



## CL810

John that bench is just flat out gorgeous! I don't think you can post enough pics.

Bolts are usually there to stabilize the end cap and the bench top for the wagon vise. That's why you often only see two near the front of the bench. Then movement is accommodated by using pins/dowels that go through elongated holes in the bench top tenon. So if the holes in the bench top that the bolts go through are large enough and the nuts can move or float, you may be ok as far as movement is concerned.

Edit: Brain fart. I don't mean lag bolts but bolts with a barrel nut or regular nut even.


----------



## Slyy

John, that thing is looking seriously chic!!


----------



## theoldfart

John, I should have asked this before. The dovetails go all the way across don't they? I'm not sure I.m going to be able to show my progress after seeing yours. Really well done!


----------



## john2005

Slight deception there. It is a regular breadboard,dowels and all. The dovetail is only the walnut cap/sides. It's basically just a half blind to cover the breadboard. I'll post pics later and it will make more sense.


----------



## theoldfart

Then I withdraw my question on the lag bolts. Thanks


----------



## terryR

Awesome, John. Thanks for showing me how to finish the ends of my NEXT bench! I could stare at massive joints all day long…especially that knot that sends curved grain right into the dovetail. Sweet bench top…just sayin'

Anyone have a sketchup copy of a similar breadboard design, so I can see what's hidden? 

After trying to flatten a few small panels, I can see I need a wagon or tail vise soon!!!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

John's a cheater, cheater, bo-beater

Terry, this is essentially what's hidden in mine. The outer holes are elongated on the tongue. 








or


----------



## CL810

Red, just to clarify that's not how you did the end vise cap is it?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pretty much, except I added big ol' bolts into the tongue. Haven't had any issues.


----------



## Slyy

Terry likes to stare at "massive" ones all day long huh?

Red - the outer ones are elongated because that's where most of the movement is?
I really gotta pick up a copy of the red and blue books!

Plethora of tips and tricks hidden in this thread!


----------



## merrill77

> Red - the outer ones are elongated because that's where most of the movement is?

Because that's where he's allowing it. You get to choose. Pin the front (meaning use a hole that just fits the dowel or screw) and the front edge of the end will remain aligned with the front of the bench-forcing the movement to the back. Pin the back and the back edge will remain aligned with the back of the end. Pin the middle and the movement is divided - both front and back will see some movement relative to the end (but half as much as the other two cases). If you work exclusively at the front of your bench, you probably want to pin it at the front. For a typical table where people will be viewing it from all sides, you'd want to pin the middle to divide the movement among the two edges.


----------



## lysdexic

Wagon vises rock


----------



## merrill77

> Wagon vises rock

Heck, yeah! I like 'em so much I put THREE on my bench!


----------



## john2005

Only pic I have of the actual breadboard. You can get the idea. The walnut dts are just caps glued to the sides of the top. I understand that a lot of this is non traditional, but I am more interested in what I can learn from the build. If they fail, it's just a workbench. I will then figure out how to repair it and continue the learning. Meanwhile it will look really cool and like I spent a whole lot more on it then I really did.










Only good pic so far of the other end. Bad angle, but no lags on this end, just floats on the doels and dts. Pretty solid but can move if it needs to.










I felt I should have the lags on the vise end for additional support. Maybe they are over kill, but that tends to fall in with my style. Slightly obsessive.


----------



## theoldfart

A question. IS there any benefit to using a full dovetail on the bench top end rather than a normal breadboard end? Am I overdoing it by using a full dovetail? The plan is a leg vise in front and a QR face vise on the tail end.


----------



## donwilwol

The dovetail will be stronger. With a breadboard, all of the strength is relying on the pins for forces that are exerted pushing the face board away from the end, like a vice may do, or say downward pressure on the very end, in a normal breadboard all of that force is on the pins. With a dovetail, all that force is spread across the joint.


----------



## terryR

Guys, thanks for the photos and discussion on bread boards! I need it. Looks like lag bolts or some sort of mechanical connector is needed to support a wagon type vice? Or massive DT's? or both?

Now I understand why I've seen so many gorgeous wood benches with steel hardware…overkill is you bench's best friend!


----------



## Pezking7p

What is the purpose of the bolts on the vise end? I guess maybe I don't know how an end vise is installed but I would imagine it's secured to the main bench top and not just the breadboard.

So when I bought my house my shop building had a big built in bench. I saved the boards from the top and they turned out to be 2"x10" red oak planks. If I want to turn these into a bench top can I join them as they are and flatten or do I need to rip them and laminate then so the side grain is facing up? I'd hate to lose so much wood to kerf if I don't need to but I don't want a bench that needs flattening every month either.


----------



## theoldfart

Pez, I would rip and laminate. If you rip on a band saw there would be less kerf loss.


----------



## donwilwol

I would joint them as they are. Probably most guys on here will agree with Kevin, but you know there dry and stable. I know rip and glue would be more stable. I just think its plenty stable, and I love the look of wide plank oak.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

merrill is right about the movement on the breadboards. It never occurred to me to pin the front as he suggested. Being that my top(like John's) is laminated with the qrtsawn edge up….it doesn't move much. About 1/16" on all 4 corners in the winter. Not enough to sweat about. A big plain sawn slab would move more. 









-
-
What is the purpose of the bolts on the vise end?

Pez, your also right. I don't believe there is a ton of torque on my breadboard vise being that the hardware is mounted independently under the bench. You can see how mine hangs lower that the benchtop. If I were to clamp something the the bottom half….maybe it would wrench it. That's why I put some bolts and small piece below to reinforce. 








-
Other vises and setups (wagon vise come to mind) can put a ton of torque on the end cap or breadboard. Often that's why folks will use a dovetail. It's stronger.

Sometimes I wish I would have dovetailed the breadboards or the stretchers on my bench. But legs were far enough out of my comfort zone at the time. I was just glad I pulled them off.


----------



## CL810

*Kevin*, my feeling is the full DT is overkill. The wood movement is not perpendicular to the end cap; it is parallel to it or vertical (perpendicular to the floor.) I've always wondered if any of the tails get pushed out on some benches. Now if you have a wagon vise some pressure will get exerted on the end cap hence the bolts.

I always thought the end caps were to prevent cupping/twist from developing in your top. A lot of benches get built without them so I don't know if they are necessary or not. If you have an end vise I think you definitely need one there. Visually it just comes down to personal preference.


----------



## Slyy

Man you all are throwing some great info this week! I really have yet to build a darn THING let alone an actual bench (mill people are still closed today!) so my own practical experience is still lacking. Always glad to have you all give me some food for thought.


----------



## CL810

Jake, get to work buddy!! ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks guys, a lot to think about.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

No there's not. Pick a style you like and just wing it. Worked for me


----------



## theoldfart

Red, I HAVE to over think things. Angst is a great motivator, along with facilitating toe dragging, procrastinating, and avoiding getting down to it!


----------



## changeoffocus

Mauricio,
It's great to see your children working with tools instead of staring at small screens like my grand children. 
Good job. 
RMC


----------



## mochoa

RMC they don't get out to the shop enough, working on it.

What to you guys think about this?









Its 42" tall and it fits over the repourposed cabinets, I may paint it all to make it uniform. I also tucked the beer fridge under the wing. ;-) I'm just not sure, the fridge will probably get banged up with falling saw cut offs.


----------



## Airframer

Everyone knows a proper shop fridge is built INTO the bench not placed there like an after thought.. Have some freakin' standards for F's sakes!


----------



## Mosquito

lol I was going to say "Fridge needs to be bigger", but seems AF already gave you a razzing about the fridge lol. 
I think it'd work, assuming the cabinets would clear the front apron


----------



## mochoa

A beer fridge of any size is a plus no matter what in my book! ;-)
As long as there is beer there and its cold.

The cabinets clear the apron just barely so that's all good.

The QR vise will go on the right side though I'm not a lefty, it will be handy there for cross cut sawing which is why the fridge there worries me. I could make a face vise with a wooden screw I have to though.


----------



## shampeon

Well, it's pretty clear that your fridge needs a cabinet as well.

Work continues, albeit slowly:


----------



## terryR

Strong looking work, Ian!

Hey, I only drink coffee in my shop and have an extra 'fridge for you guys if you wanna pay shipping… Maur, I'm afraid you HAVE to paint either the cabinets or the 'fridge!

Thanks more and more for the photos on how to dress the end of a bench top properly! I've gotta retro-fit an end vice to mine soon. Like the way Red's is attached since Clayton says the full-on DT is overkill. Plus, I'll be lucky enough to pull off what Red did cleanly. LOL


----------



## richardwootton

So I'm curious how one would even attempt to cut a full dovetailed end cap. Especially by hand. Any thoughts?


----------



## john2005

That was the question that led to what I did. Can it be done? Yes. By me with the tools and ability I possess? Doubt it. 
Maybe with a long mitre saw? Trimming and fitting would be difficult too. Dunno


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ian- it's good to see you back in the shop. Your bench has some class.

Terry- the whole time I was making the massive breadboards on my benchtop, I was thinking I could sure use one of these. Just sayin…lol


----------



## terryR

^ Love the carriage makers plane…sure did consider the LN LA Jack Rabbet this past haul…but cannot complain about that 62 in any way!

Yes, I would also like to know the 'proper' way to add a dovetail to this breadboard joinery. Not saying I can pull it off, but would love to see photos…

Also, another question for the experienced…Can I add a breadboard to the left end of my bench, with no vice involved, just to get another 2 feet of working space? Too long? 16"?

Gotta admit, an older friend saw my bench for the first time a month ago, and the first thing that caught his eye was the intriguing end grain of my top and aprons. Actually I have an end grain cutting board in progress, too, from the pine cut off's…


----------



## Sylvain

Mauricio,
do you need the overhang on the left side?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Terry, how is that block on the right end being held in place? What kind of bench dogs are in the picture / looks like some kind of cast iron, toggle thingy… (?) Enquiring Minds Want to Know…
.
.
Oh, and end grain on bench tops rocks.


----------



## terryR

Smitty, those are useless Veritas bench blades. cool looking…not very useful IMO. 
The clamps they make with actual screws, I like…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Maur- forgot to say I like the looks of the joinery bench. I'd still just paint the lower cabs. 
Also, you could consider a till or something for storage build off the right side to hide the fridge. I almost build a little til off the right side of mine.

Terry- 16" breadboard wouldn't be a good idea imo. That's a lot of torque on those dowels. I guess you'll have to build another bench. Oh darn


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh their bench pups are great, you're right. Very versatile, easy to use, etc. Have to check out the 'blades,' never saw those before (useless or not). Thanks, Terry!


----------



## donwilwol

Terry, I'd be in full agreement with Red. A breadboard isn't design to add length. its sole purpose is keeping the top flat. If you wanted to add an inch or two it would work.

You're welcome to ship that short bench to me if you need the space.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, guys, I sorta thought an extended top would be too much on the tongue…Gotta build another bench, yes!

Don, if we lived closer, I'd trailer it right over…in trade for some oak! LOL


----------



## theoldfart

Finished milling and planing the breadboard stock:









Cherry 3 1/2×4 1/2


----------



## Boatman53

Haven't had much time lately, but here are some shots of how I did the breadboard end. It ties the front to the back, makes an end on the tool tray, and contributes to racking prevention. All dovetails are pinned,and all the top pieces were assembled at the same time. The back of the bench slab is not fastened at all but is held in place by the breadboards. No bolts in the breadboard.the top can move over the tool tray if it wants to.



















This is the inside of the breadboard pieces. The smaller slot captures the tool tray board.










The dovetail is sized to cover the dado for the bench tongue.










Just realized how large these photos are and some details are missing so here is a link ti the meager documentation I did on the build.
http://photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/workbench

Hope this helps.
Jim


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Wowzers. Now that man is a joiner.

Kev- that breadboard stock looks choice.


----------



## john2005

Jim, you never fail to impress!

Kevin, balls in motion now!


----------



## CL810

Boys are throwing it down! Impressive Kevin & Jim.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I love me some leg vise…










Waxed the threads after use today, moving oh-so-nice again. Amazing how so simple a devise works so well.


----------



## Boatman53

I couldn't agree more Smitty.
Thanks everyone, I built that bench before I found LJ and should have taken way more photos, all well. 
Jim


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's outstanding work you done on it, Jim!


----------



## richardwootton

Smitty, I love seeing pics of your shop. Is that an antique lamp you have of the bench in the picture?


----------



## DanKrager

I love me some leg vise… 
So legs are your vice?  +1 Richard on Smitty's shop.
DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Richard, that's a lamp. ScottyBYo calls it art nouveau I think. It was a flea mkt find; I like the incandescent light as a. Balance to the flourescents.


----------



## terryR

Leg vice love…yeah, whatever…

I'm still drooling over the hardwood floors….

carry on…


----------



## woodcox

Pentagonal maple speed handle. I used a bicentennial quater for a washer.


----------



## JayT

Anyone else see this Schwarz post? It was also linked on WoodTalk

Death by Roubo

Makes me worry about some of you, especially if Red's medication levels are still off.

Edit: I should mention that the link, while not having any photos near as graphic as BYo likes to share, may not be for the faint of heart. The description and line drawing can invoke some disturbing images (No, not that way, stef)


----------



## CL810

Curly maple will do that to you.


----------



## terryR

Holy crap, death by Roubo looks scary!

Woodcox, nice work. Love the chain drive…I'm never going to complain about NOT having the correct size washer again!


----------



## richardwootton

His bench looked pretty sweet though… Is that weird?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"Red's medication levels are still off."

I'm not out of the woods yet….but I'm not that depressed….lol

Nearly 3000 post and I got pissy twice… that I can think of. With Smitty and Eric….and they're two of my favorites. So wuddya gonna do.

Remember, we Ogre's are like onions. We have layers.


----------



## JayT

Red, I wasn't worried about you being that depressed. It was more fear that a 'roid rage might cause you to think this was an appropriate method for offing those guys that offended you.


----------



## theoldfart

Gonna keep my head down then


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Nah. As my wife well knows….just give me a minute or two for my Irish temper to simmer down. Then the guy who'd rather give you a bear hug and buy you a beer will be back;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Sounds much safer. Like the "happy red" better!


----------



## mochoa

I tried moving the legs over to accommodate the ridge but I dont like it. Not good Feng Shui.

I'm going to scrap the fridge idea, move it back to where it was. 









I'll save the space for some kind of till or drawer setup.










edit: left out the last pic.


----------



## CL810

Maur did you stay home today?


----------



## mochoa

Yes, I actually left work early yesterday just to be on the save side. LOL


----------



## theoldfart

One more board to go. The breadboard ends are dimensioned, legs, stretchers and the like are done. White oak for front and back and cherry stripe in the middle, at least thats the plan.


















Things are getting crowded!


----------



## JayT

Lookin' good, Kevin. Can't wait to see it finished so we can ooh, ahhh and razz on stef that *another* person finished a bench before him.


----------



## lysdexic

Nice progress there Mr. Fart. That is a very "inventive" clamping arrangement.


----------



## chrisstef

Hey, I haven't seen anyone else remodel a kitchen and include WALNUT countertops around here lol. Im shooting to keep mama happy and get this house sold. Weve got the realtor coming out Friday to take stock of all the upgrades and give us an idea as to market value. If we hit the numbers we need to, were outski. If we don't, maybe ill have time to work on the bench as we'll have to sit on it for a little bit. I do realize that excuses are like JayT's so I wont hang my hat on the kitchen remod slowing my bench build down. Im just slow and easily distracted


----------



## CL810

Kevin, watching a build is almost as much fun as building your own! I've been wondering what you've been up to - glad to see things are moving along. Looks good!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Let's recap this from Stef:

"don't… have time to work on the bench… blah blah blah … have to sit on it for a little bit… blah blah blah …excuses… slowing my bench build down… blah blah blah …Im just slow"

Got it.

Bless his heart.


----------



## chrisstef

Because of that post Smitty, you have earned a valentines day present from me ..


----------



## JayT

Smitty, I just laughed out loud at work at that and got some weird looks from co-workers.

Nice accurate summary.


----------



## theoldfart

……. and in conclusion kevin (aka TOF or baldheadedoldfart) will not post bench pics for a while to protect fellow 98+-%ers. Sorry Stef. Getting the itch to order the screw and criss cross must resist till charge closes!


----------



## chrisstef

Ill safely say that ive never been razzed by a better bunch of guys. OF, don't hold back on my account. My feelings are strong, you wont hurt them.

Im serious about that hug Smitty. I may one day make it out to your neck of the woods. I got hugs for you and Hog. Big ones. Not backwards hugs like youre used to though.


----------



## theoldfart

So to paraphrase Stef has strong feelings for backwards hugs for/from Smitty and the Hog! Hmmmmm…


----------



## richardwootton

Well I'm "lucky" enough to not be encumbered by a SWMBO, but that doesn't mean I work at the lightening speed of so many on here! Here's a random shot dimensioning Red Oak and getting rid of mill marks for my roubo build. I need to build some saw benches before I start ripping 20+ boards down to about 4". I'm gonna be friggin' popeye when this thing is all said and done.


----------



## Airframer

Smitty - I saw this and thought of you..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Stanley-No-701-Table-Top-Magnifier-Glass-with-light-/350994192172?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51b8e2572c


----------



## bandit571

Stef still hasn't got a bench…...I have been working my nasty, old old to death lately….

Ever do so much jack plane work, that you need to sharpen the irons back up? As luck would have it, I can replace the two duller jack planes with another two sharp ones. Why change out an iron, just grab another plane…

Been ankle deep in walnut shavings, may have to fire Igor, seems he hasn't been sweeping things up, lately…









just saying..


----------



## theoldfart

Finished planning and jointing. Tomorrow we rip.









Had a bit of a twist so scrubbed the high spots then finished with the tailed planner!









Did joint by hand though


----------



## richardwootton

Lookin' good TOF! What the hell is a tailed planer?


----------



## Pezking7p

Looking good Kevin. Are you doing everything by hand?


----------



## john2005

Looking solid OF! I admire your courage going at it with the hand tools. I'm goin at it with some but not all out. She's gonna be sweet!


----------



## theoldfart

Painful admission, a tailed planer is a Rigid Power planer. Some negative galootness I'm afraid!


----------



## Slyy

TOF - that thing is coming along fabulously!! Won't deduct too many points for the power jointer, you did some good galoot there!

Richard - great shots, I'm thinking about going the red oak route for most of mine, have a good deal on the stuff near by!

Stef - just make sure everyone's hands are above the table when you grab those hugs!


----------



## richardwootton

Finally picked up some SYP 2×10s today to get cracking on a couple saw benches. On a side note, I don't have any holdfasts and I'm wondering if there's a way to cut down an F clamp as a makeshift holdfast. Could it possibly generate enough friction to work?


----------



## donwilwol

an F clamp as a makeshift holdfast

Something like this, http://lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/33500


----------



## richardwootton

Thanks don! That's not what I was thinking when I asked the question, but that gives me some great ideas on how to put an old HF clamp to use. I have the quick release bar clmaps that have the metal head. I was looking at them earlier and the shape reminded me of a holdfast with less reach, so I figured I'd give it a go!


----------



## merrill77

You can use that F-clamp head in a clamping arrangement through the hole. But I'd be wary of pounding on it like a holdfast. First, the bar will probably flex too much to get a good hold. Second, cast iron doesn't take shock well - which is why the cast iron holdfasts aren't popular - they have a tendency to break when you pound on them.


----------



## grfrazee

Also, since you're applying the same amount of force on less area, the small width of the bar clamp would probably mangle your dog holes pretty bad as compared to a round shaft.


----------



## richardwootton

That totally makes sense fellas and also confirms my suspicions. I'll give Don's method a shot.


----------



## richardwootton

Como?


----------



## CL810

"Each one more beautiful than the other"


----------



## Boatman53

Well this bench is finally installed. Specs….. 30' long, 16" wide slab 2 1/2" thick. Four leg vises with the chain adjusters to eliminate the need for the pin in the parallel beam. All legs are fixed. Still need to drill some dog holes and holes for the occasional holdfast, but it is ready to work. A Wilton quick release vise with the swivel jaw is used as an end vise. The slabs were pre made we did not make them. There is a tool well between each of the timber frame posts.
This is all at the East End Community Boatshop, if you search that you should find more about the organization.





































This was the last boat that was built at the shop and was raffled off this past December, just got it's final coat of paint and the rigging installed.









Jim


----------



## richardwootton

That bench is freaking awesome Jim! What vise hardware did you use for the leg vise screws?


----------



## Boatman53

Richard,The screws are from L-N before the went to the shorter screw. We can clamp 11" in those vises. Handles are from L-N also. Hardware to eliminate the pin was from me. I made the legs and the associated chops and fitted all the vise hardware. Many other people worked on making the rest of it happen.
Jim


----------



## mochoa

Thats amazing Jim, i would love to hang out at that shop.


----------



## richardwootton

Very cool, I know we have talked about it before but I'm planning on using your chain guide for my leg vise when the time comes.


----------



## shipwright

Very nice bench Jim and with your excellent chain touch on the vices a great asset to the shop. That's a really cute little sailer there too. That would be a bunch of fun in a few knots of wind on the bay.
Are they looking for any teachers …..... just kidding.


----------



## Boatman53

Thanks Paul, actually they aren't looking for teachers even from me. Only when the get stuck do they call me. There are so many opportunities to teach with the building of a little boat, but there is no outreach to the public. Unfortunately we went from doing nothing but teaching to raising money and the building to a place for retired guys to hang out. None of them with a boatbuilders background. All good guys to be sure, but.
Jim


----------



## terryR

Goodness gracious what a shop, Jim, and what a sweet bench! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Pezking7p

Jim, that bench is sweet. Such a shame about it just being a hang out. Young folks need to be engaged in learning crafts/trades or they'll only know how to twitter when they get older. Then who will build boats?

Your pictures also make me miss my time spent living on buzzards bay. Fortunate to live the life of a sailor for a few years.


----------



## shipwright

Oh that sounds familiar Jim. Check this one out from my home town on Vancouver Island.


----------



## Slyy

Jim, that is some serious bench awesomeness if there ever was!!!


----------



## Pezking7p

So, I'm plotting my bench build and right now I'm leaning towards roubo a la Scharz with a leg vise (mostly because I don't want to deal as much with racking side to side), and a wagon vise (because I think they're cool). Does anyone see any holes in this plan?

With any luck I'll get a bench finished before Stef.


----------



## yuridichesky

Jim, this workbench is huge in all meanings of this word!
It sure has a room for all the gang from this thread to make good group bondo shot!


----------



## theoldfart

Ripping the final (i hope) two boards for the top. Snapped a line and jointed one edge









Marked off a 1/2"or so of crummy wood and ripped it off

















now repeat three more times!


----------



## woodchuckerNJ

Building a workbench, or consider building a workbench.

From an engineering point of view, please see this video I made, because too many times I see nice benches with poor engineering, that can be corrected early, but not late.





Thanks for watching… this is my first video, and I hope it makes a difference.


----------



## lysdexic

I covet the panel gauge.


----------



## richardwootton

Yeah I've got some serious panel gauge envy right now!


----------



## theoldfart

The arm is a replacement and I need to inlay about an 1/8" thick piece of brass along its length. Just got it as a BD gift from my wife along with a few other tools.


----------



## lysdexic

Isn't that the one that you posted a pic of a few weeks ago? If so, why the replacement arm?


----------



## john2005

You're an animal Kevin! Also dig the panel gauge.


----------



## Slyy

Kevin, some great looking galoot work going on there!!


----------



## Boatman53

Thanks for all the nice comments about the boat shop bench. Finally they have a place to lay a plank down.
Backing up a bunch of posts to the thoughts on an "f" clamp as a holdfast it reminded me of this.



















You can see how they fit a square (ok, rectangular) bar in a round hole. They work pretty well. The top lever applies the force. No whacking involved however. 
Since holdfasts depend on flex I'm not sure if the "f" clamp would be that effective. They are designed not to flex.

Pezking many have built that bench, you are in good company.

Just thought I'd share this, carry on.
Jim


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I've seen those in a local flea, unfortunately the nylon adapter pieces were absent or they'd be in my shop right now.


----------



## theoldfart

Scotty, it is the same one. I knew the arm was a replacement, but didn't realize the screw was damaging the top edge. The arm is a little loose a well, so i'm going to shim it with some brass stock and inlay a strip to stop the denting of the arm.


----------



## theoldfart

Had dinner guests so I couldn't finish all the rips, one more to go









And a pic of the offending perps









Good night all


----------



## Pezking7p

Seems to be coming along pretty quickly, Kevin. I think you've earned a drink after all that ripping.


----------



## CL810

Craftsman skills on display *Kevin*!


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, Pez thanks


----------



## terryR

Holy crap, Kevin, I thought you were an old fart! Ripping 10 footers by hand…makes my shoulders sore just looking at the photo. LOL.

Strong work!

However, now thanks to your enabling, I NEED a panel gauge!


----------



## mochoa

Hey Oldfart, others can correct me if I'm wrong but I think that is work better suited for a hatchet. May save you a lot of work and it's an excuse to buy a new tool ;-)

At least that first rip you made. If it's a lot farther in to the board I you have to saw it.


----------



## merrill77

woodchucker - that's an interesting visualization. I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion, but the illustration does not represent the actual physics at play and may therefore be misleading to many viewers. Placing the resisting force at the location of the stretcher is not representative of the actual location of the force. The resisting force is always at the bottom of the leg where it touches the floor. I realize that this was meant to be a simplification of the real thing, but this has a significant impact on the magnitude of the difference between the two locations.

And of course, there are many other factors at play. My stretchers are nearly on the ground, but thanks to other design features and precision joinery, my bench exhibits an unmeasurable amount of racking during heavy planing (zero, AFAICT).


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Maur, the hatchet is a good suggestion. I also thought scrub plane for that first one…


----------



## theoldfart

Maur, I should have used my scrub for that first rip but I wanted the practice ! The two rips were 7'2" and on the line the whole way.


----------



## mochoa

Good show no doubt!

Draw knife would have been another option as well.


----------



## theoldfart

I have to get one of those someday.


----------



## CL810

woodchuckerNJ I'm sure your theory and demonstration are correct. In reality however, the issues you raise with stretchers that are too low and unnecessarily large legs are not issues at all.

First, not all planing action is along the length of the bench. In my experience some of the most forceful planning action is directed in a 45 - 60 degree action with a jack plane when removing lots of wood to flatten a board.

Second, my experience is the same as Chris' (merrill 77). I have zero movement in my bench in any direction.


----------



## WillliamMSP

@woochuckerNJ - so, you're essentially demonstrating a Type 1 lever, with the resistance and effort on opposite ends of the lever and the fulcrum somewhere in the middle. Basic stuff. What I don't see is how applies to a table. Sure - I get that you're saying that planing is the effort but I don't see any further similarities: the stretcher certainly isn't a fulcrum that the lever (leg) is pivoting on and where the foot meets the floor isn't the load that's being moved.

If I'm visualizing a racking table, I'm thinking of it like a folding parallelogram - the floor between the feet defines the bottom, the legs are the sides and the top is, well, the top. As you push along the top, the bottom stays in place and the top moves in the direction of the force while the legs lean in that same direction while remaining parallel to each other.

Now, if you wanted to stop that racking, I think that the most effective way of doing it would be to add cross-bracing that runs from opposite, diagonal corners. That may not be practical or attractive, so you add a stretcher instead - the width of the stretcher essentially indicating the width of the cross-bracing points - the wider the better (a really narrow stretcher would essentially become another parallel to the floor/top, essentially useless to prevent racking). In this scenario, I don't think that it matters where the stretcher goes with relation to the top or bottom - it's just the width that's important… except that, in the real world, the legs aren't going to be infinitely stiff, so it would probably be best to keep the stretcher closer to the floor, where the legs could use the support.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Ugh, I think that I'm going to tl;dr myself. Sorry for the ramble on, folks.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ Brings up the question- Should all aesthetics and function take a back seat to maximum engineered strength?

I don't think so. How about some pretty good engineering (mortise and tenons that are pinned, draw-bored, or wedged). Then take into account a design that is pleasing to the eye, and leaves functional space below.

No disrespect intended woodchuckerNJ. Just my two centavos.


----------



## WillliamMSP

"^ Brings up the question- Should all aesthetics and function take a back seat to maximum engineered strength?"

I don't think so, either. I think that once *functional* strength is attained, everything else is superfluous.


----------



## Pezking7p

I have to agree with WillMSP and Big Red on all points. Perfect engineering is not always about making the most efficient structural design.

Having said this, I have a few questions regarding bench design. I've just finished the Blue Book. At the beginning, Schwarz says he'll discuss how thick a top should be later in the book, but I don't recall ever reading a later section that talks about top thickness vs wood species vs distance between legs. Did I miss this section? I have the kindle version and I have a suspicion that the book was not put together very well for the e-reader. For reference, I'm hoping to make my top out of red oak, about 6 ft long overall.


----------



## Airframer

All I know is that my stretchers are pretty close to the bottom of the feet and my bench has absolutely no movement in it…


----------



## john2005

That's what you guys decide AFTER I criss cross my strechers? This place is getting crazy.
Seriously though! I decided I am not tough enough to make a moderately strong built bench rack. Dang sure ain't no Kevin. I think I'll be good with low strechers…..


----------



## merrill77

It is probably worth mentioning that if if strength was the only priority, the logical choice would be to eliminate the stretcher altogether and simply join from leg-to-leg with a sheet product (plywood, etc). This would give you maximum anti-racking strength with minimal effort. After I finished my top and had not yet decided on my bench height, I did this with a set of sawhorses. A mere 8 screws held the 2 sheets joining the sawhorse legs to each other, along with 4 more screws holding the top to the sawhorses. It was shockingly sturdy (these particular sawhorses are an unusual design that have multiple stretchers and thus don't rack along their length - traditional sawhorses would have required another two small pieces of plywood to stabilize the legs in the across-the-bench direction).


----------



## theoldfart

Low stretchers allow you to hook your foot under them for more leverage while diagonally planing.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Don't forget the flip-flop hook Kev. 









Note: I had this garage specially built to make me look larger than life.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, mine's only going to work with Crocs! 
ps. thought that garage looked small.


----------



## Pezking7p

Do you have one foot on the stretcher and one foot on a step stool?


----------



## CL810

Note: I had this garage specially built to make me look larger than life.

Sig Line!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Do you have one foot on the stretcher and one foot on a step stool?

Well ya! I'm only 5' 2". That bench is friggin tall….lol


----------



## richardwootton

Maur and TOF, how far into a board does a hatchet become the wrong tool to use? Also are we talking about a particular kind of hatchet?


----------



## Slyy

Rojo is a big fan of forced perspective I've begun to realize. The truth with that picture is there is no forced perspective with the location of his kid, just with where it seems he is located within the shop. If you think about it, he probably built that little bench he's planing on right next to his full sized roubo. Do the math with his daughter basically sitting right next to him (as she clearly is in the picture) that makes Red out to be about 4'6". Convenient that his "stated height" is a direct inversion of what seems likely to be his "actual" height. Hmmm…....

On a more serious note, what should I pick up first, Schwarz's Red or Blue book?


----------



## JJohnston

WoodchuckerNJ - one thing you're not taking into account on at least some of the benches you're talking about is the moment-resisting capacity (i.e., the racking resisting capacity) of the joint between the legs and the top. Look at this connection on the Roubo compared to yours: yours gets all of its racking resistance from one wide stretcher, so it doesn't need a moment-resisting connection between the base and the top; the Roubo gets some of its rack resistance from the moment capacity of the lower stretcher connection, and some from the leg/top connection. Imagine it this way: look at the top/leg joint, now turn it 90 degrees so the leg is horizontal. That's the same joint configuration as a leg/stretcher.

As far as the bench on the magazine, it's impossible to tell what kind of joint he's got at the top - but it will rack if the legs aren't tenoned in good.


----------



## DonBroussard

Good discussion of stretchers and bench racking. I didn't realize there were so many engineers on LJs. I keep waiting for someone to drop some torque, torsion and polar moments of inertia to liven things up a bit.


----------



## Pezking7p

Jake, I just read the Blue Book. It was a good read. I felt like it was more of a story or a magazine article than a reference. The most important part of the book, in my opinion, was the section on what operations you perform on a bench and which features he thinks are best for that operation.

However, most of the book could be boiled down to: "Make a copy of my roubo bench." I felt like this was the overall message, and it's one I intend to follow, fwiw.

If you have a pretty good understanding of a bench, and what the different kinds of vises are, I would buy the red book.


----------



## Pezking7p

Don, don't make me whip out my second moment of inertia on you….

I'll do it. I'm just that crazy.


----------



## theoldfart

Richard, i've never used a hatchet for woodworking so I can't answer your question.
Jake, I got the blue first then the red only because thats how they were published.I like them both and I would favor the blue first then the red. Pez is correct about Schwarz's discussion on operations in the blue one..


----------



## WillliamMSP

I read the ebook version, don't recall any specifics on thickness. The gist, though, is that as long as the top is at least a few inches thick, the type of wood doesn't matter too much, but the thicker the better (for mass and future flattening).


----------



## woodchuckerNJ

So the lever is the leg, not the stretcher.
moving the stretcher to the bottom, gives you a longer lever arm.
If you do a lot of plaining on a crappy bench you get to understand that placement and size of the stretcher are everything.

I'll be building a small demo of m&t pine (meant to fail) one with m&t at the bottom the other in the middle.
Then see where it fails. I made one today, but made it too heavy. I couldn't break it.

I use hand planes, so I am keenly aware of benches that rack. I have seen some very nice benches that racked.
So let's wait for my next vid showing a mock up of a real m&t and see if I can use my fish scale to pull it apart, or do something that can measure it.


----------



## Boatman53

I agree with the posts about woodchucerNJ's video but I can't find my slide rule so I wont get all technical. It hasn't been mentioned I don't think that his example is a free bar lever, one really needs to consider the mortise of the leg to the top if there is one. The Ulmia bench I have has no mechanical connection of the top to the legs. I can lift it right up if I wanted. That bench with a high stecher can rack if the bolts slack off the smallest amount. It is a nice bench but nowhere near as solid as the one I built. The bench I built with low strechers, tenon in the top all glued and pegged does not move at all. Sorry I have no photos of the Ulmia bench.
Jim


----------



## CL810

Blue first then red. Red does not go into the detail that the blue does. But the red does point out some considerations and some pros and cons that are not in the blue book. I really recommend that you read both.

*William* - 3.5" - 4"


----------



## JJohnston

Look forward to the model building & breaking (love destructive testing myself). Just be sure to build one low-stretcher model with the legs tenoned into the top.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Still not seeing the lever analogy, Jeff. To play devil's advocate and to take your model at face value, though - why stop in the middle? Would wouldn't putting the stretcher just under the top be the best if higher is better?


----------



## woodchuckerNJ

Ok, WilliamMSP, try this, and let me know if I am really that far offbase.
I did not build the testcase, but came up with a quick way of representing the idea.





Thanks.


----------



## woodchuckerNJ

JJonston, not everyone builds a bench with tenons to the top, most don't.
Everyone is on a roubo kick.. but most benches have simple design, euro and english.


----------



## Boatman53

William with both ends of the leg "free" the middle is the optimal location. Once it starts going higher the forces go up but on the other end.
Jim


----------



## woodchuckerNJ

Don Broussard more than a few people keep bringing up Newtons 2nd law, and have run numbers for me.
I'm not in that camp. Take a look at the video I just posted above 2 posts earlier. I think anyone can take a stick and try this.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jeff- I don't doubt the physics or engineering whatsoever. It probably is stronger with the stretcher in the middle of the leg. But it doesn't make sense in terms of function or aesthetics.

Can you imagine if all buildings, bridges, and furniture were built with strength being paramount? I don't want to live in that world.


----------



## JJohnston

Oh, and testing the models to failure isn't what you want. You're not really interested in ultimate strength; you're interested in stiffness: force required to produce a certain deflection. You'll need the fish scale and the dial indicator.

And by the way: the bench I'm planning to build also has one wide stretcher in the middle, because I don't want to mess up my top with trying to tenon into it. My connection there will only need to resist horizontal forces, so it'll just be dowels.


----------



## Pezking7p

Jeff, yes you can decrease the racking moment by moving the stretchers higher. But this is likely a minor improvement. If you're working on a 35" tall bench , 3" thick top, with a 6" stretcher that is in the "low" position at 8" centerline from the floor, by moving this stretcher to he middle of tha legs you reduce the moment arm from 21" to 13" for a torque reduction of less than 40%. A pretty meager improvement when compared to other contributing factors like the type and quality of joinery used. And again. This is only one source of movement when considering racking, top/leg movement also determines racking. So at best you have reduced racking moment by 20-25% overall.

Now youve got a solid piece of wood right where you want your knees to be. No room for a sliding deadman and an awkward space under your bench that isn't very useable. At this point you may as well put an apron on the front of the bench, which has virtually no chance of racking, and call it a day.

I understand the structural point you are trying to make, but the trade off doesn't make sense.

Edit: also this is a thread devoted to benches in which one who makes a bench with an 8" thick top sitting on 10" legs would likely be raised to demigod status. The whole site might cease to function and be replaced by a simple homepage displaying a picture of this bench with a blue haired beauty perched atop its greatness.


----------



## woodchuckerNJ

JJ, I would think testing to failure is the easiest way to show racking. Racking will eventually lead to failure of the joint.

Let me see what I can do with the current pieces. For the dial it's just a little too tough, I don't have any double pulleys, I would setup a double and then the range would probably be closer to the scale… There might be another way.

BigRed, wouldn't you want a solid workbench? if you are a power tool only guy I guess not, but if you do both, you'll want something solid.

When I plane across a board, there isn't much stress on the bench, but when I am going with the grain there is more resistance.. so I do think it's important, but I agree, not for everyone. And some will only occasionally plane. I plane after running it through the jointer and planer, because I don't like the scallops, and sanding is just too dusty. I can take it down nicer and more complete with a pass of the hand plane. Buit hey, I'm getting off topic and probably sounding like I'm preaching. I'm not, I think I have the right idea.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Jeff - sure, you're now presenting a Type 2 lever: fulcrum on one end, effort on the other, resistance (via stretcher) in the middle. Again, if I'm to accept your model at face value, the most effective place for your hand/stretcher would be just below the top of the lever, not in the middle of it.

...but I still don't see that as being a representative model. The stretcher, unlike your arm, isn't holding back the leg from racking forces in that manner - it can't because the other end is attached to a leg that is likewise racking.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

BigRed, wouldn't you want a solid workbench? if you are a power tool only guy I guess not, but if you do both, you'll want something solid.

Yup. I've got one. Not trying to get crazy, but you'd have to hit it with a truck to make it flex or rack.










Even if it is only 24" tall.


----------



## woodchuckerNJ

Red, Yep I see, that's a nice bench.
Thoese legs will prevent racking, it's been dealt with on your bench, but most benches are not roubo's.
Would have been nice if you built it for a lefty..

Will, I see what you are saying.I am hoping I'm not wrong, but I guess until I prove it some how, we won't know.


----------



## john2005

^ ha!


----------



## dbray45

On my bench, I have not installed a stretcher at all - yet. It is in the works. I do not have through tenons on the top but they are seated a good 2" into the top with 3 1/2" posts. I have been using this bench rather aggressively and at this point, I have moved the whole bench, even sitting on rubber pads. Over time, it it possible that the legs could break free and rack but having double tenons in two legs and larger single tenons in the other two legs, the surface area of mating wood would prove that my weight and potential force generated is not enough to break these free.

When I installed the legs, the top was inverted on a different bench. To right the bench, it required tipping over to the balance point and letting it go. I did this for several reasons, one being that the thing weighs more than I am going to pick up, lack of space, and if it can handle the weight to force ratio of a 1 foot drop (not a straight inline drop), and sound solid - which it did, it was all good. This thing not only sounded solid, it bounced.


----------



## theoldfart

Last big rip done, kept to the line pretty well









Loooong cut









Much easier to joint squarely when two pieces are ganged up









Headed out skiing next week so not much will be done.


----------



## mochoa

If your legs are mortised into the top then the top does double duty as a stretchers. The bench on the cover of that magazine is probably lag bolted in. I'm guessing that the bolts plus the inertia of the massive top makes it work.

Ha! I bet no one thought of inertia! You guys may have, I had to skim the last few posts on the engineering talk.

Richard, I actually don't own a hatchet so I'm just talking out my @ss. ;-) I do have plans to buy one for such applications though.

Kevin, you're the man! Getting the gym time in along with the shop time sounds like a win-win to me! So is the glue on the previous lamination dry by the time you finish each rip? Rip, glue, rip, glue? 

Paul Sellers has a great blog about sharpening an ordinary hatchet for use in woodworking tasks such as carving. http://paulsellers.com/2013/08/sharpening-an-axe-for-carving-and-shaping/


----------



## theoldfart

Maur, no glue yet. I need to sort through the pieces and match and glue them in sets of four. Last two rips are 4/4 for the front and back of the top giving me about 22" of width. I'll plane the glued sections and glue them up in two sections and THEN one! At least that's the plan. Ordering the screw and cross next week, I want them on hand before fitting the legs to the top. Judging by Andy's postings the routing and boring have to be pretty exact and should be done before the bench is assembled.

Soon, I hope.


----------



## lysdexic

Kev, do you not have a bandsaw?


----------



## richardwootton

Kevin, is that a #3 I see in the last picture?


----------



## richardwootton

And you are a man among men by the way! Keepin' the galoot points high my friend!


----------



## theoldfart

Scotty, I have a 14" PM w/riser, just wanted to do this by hand. Don't think I'll repeat the exercise!
Richard, nope a 4, a 40 1/2, and a 7
And gallootness adulation is something I crave! :0)


----------



## richardwootton

Me and you both brother, me and you both! I need to find one of those 40 1/2 scrubs… Especially for a decent price.


----------



## CL810

Kevin I galoot you!! You certainly earned it brother!


----------



## theoldfart

Richard, I got it from Patrick Leach. Tired of the less than honest pics on flea bay, and is prices are fair.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yessir Kevin's gonna have some pipes by the time he's done.

His guns won't be as big as mine but….









A real pic since I've been exposed and all.


----------



## richardwootton

You lied about your height again! 4'2" tops!


----------



## theoldfart

Face looks about right , must really be Red


----------



## mochoa

Kevin, I applaud your galootness and desire to get some exercise, who couldn't use some more of that.

But in the olden days they would have joined no more than than two slabs for a bench top (IMHO) so dont feel obligated to rip boards by hand for an 11 piece top.

Here is a cool site with a lot of nice old benches. http://www.1stdibs.com/search/?q=workbench

This one was the inspiration for my bench, notice the two slabs bolted together.


----------



## theoldfart

Maur, my Gallootness goes only so far. The rest of the top I used the Saw Stop at the school!


----------



## richardwootton

I'm tempted to fire up my table saw to do most of my big rips. I just don't think I have it in me to rip 20+ oak boards to width. I have started in on my first saw bench though!


----------



## john2005

Kevin, you sir, are the man. Oldfart nothin! You've alredy out sawn me and all I did was look at the pics.

That must be a pic of Red on the roids? Looks mad. I did expect you to be a little bit taller though…... -


----------



## donwilwol

No pain no gain just took on a whole new meaning!


----------



## CL810

Oh man *Red *that was the laugh of the month!


----------



## lysdexic

Kevin, I just asked because I took a hybrid approach when I ripped boards for my bench top. Bandsaw close to the line the with a jointed with a #7


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Clayton- just repaying some of the hardy laughs you have provided my friend.

Joinery bench shot. Trimming out the cabinets….for my joinery bench.


----------



## Pezking7p

That's a sweet shot right there. Moxon is in need so some handles on the wheels, though.


----------



## mochoa

Its coming together! I'm debating on the use of that wooden screw, I like the look of a traditional face vise.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Do you have a moxon Mauricio? If not, you should totally do one. I find a new use for that thing everyday. Like today, how do you edge plane long strips of 1/4" material? A moxon works slick.

The cabinets that go below my joinery bench are coming along pretty well.


----------



## TerryDowning

Nice Maura looking good.


----------



## CL810

Maur it's looking good. I spy a shop log.


----------



## theoldfart

Maur, the bench is looking good. Are those legs big enough to accommodate a leg vise?


----------



## mochoa

Thanks fellas, its a humble looking bench but will fit my neeeds,

Moxon huh? I can do that with a twin screw, let me think about it.

Leg vise could work with aslant but I have one of those already, kind of want something different.

Shop log ho!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Watcha building, Maur? A joinery bench that's taller than your main bench, or ? I missed something, I think.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah I'm making a "quick" bench to fit above these cabinets I found cheap so figure, why not make it joinery/carving height?

I'm acually starting to like the idea of the twin screw, just will have to make another wooden screw


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ah, yes. The cabinet bench!


----------



## donwilwol

How'd I miss the second Maur bench build? That's it! I need to quit my job!!


----------



## mochoa

Don, I think you have been either spending to much time on the latest tool swap or the smutty Christef thread (jus kidding I read that one to). 

Posts have been pretty sporadic and I haven't shared much because it's a little bit weak sauce. The trestles are joined with dowels and I'm not doing any lamination for the top.

Has been pretty high on the galoot index though. Here are a couple of action shots.


----------



## mochoa

The Wedged Dado />









Kerfing and chopping out the haunch in the legs:


----------



## theoldfart

^ This guy is on his second build and I'm just getting ready to glue my first top section! Damn over achievers (BTW nice job Maur).
OK here we go, think I have enough clamps;









Just need to cover everything in plastic.


----------



## mochoa

Red those cabinets are looking amazing by the way. Great work!

Kevin, this bench is sort of an "express" version and dosnt take as much as work yours so dont feel bad. Plus, I'm only doing my crosscuts by hand. The rips are being done free hand with the circular saw you can see in my first pic.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Maur. Ya, it's amazing how much faster a bench build goes when your not laminating the top, or doing complex joinery. I'm glad your considering a moxon/twin screw. I'm tellin ya, having one of those on a taller bench is the shizzle for handwork.

"That smutty Christef thread"...lol


----------



## chrisstef

You guys know I CAN read right? lol. Its really Bhog that smuts it up. He's a bad influence.

Im surprised as hell that the mallet is holding up Mauricio. I woulda figured, that with my skills and your galootness, it would have been toast by now.

Good looking bench work fellas.


----------



## mochoa

"You guys know I CAN read right?" I literally laughed out loud on that one. Almost spit my coffee out. LOL.

Ok we'll blame Hog. LOL.

The mallet has been holding up like a champ! I been beating the shiit out of stuff with it. Its the 100's of infusion with the prayers of nuns I say. It has super powers.


----------



## chrisstef

That's what im talking about Maur. A good giggle and a lot of beatin. Kinda like raising kids.


----------



## donwilwol

"You guys know I CAN read right?"
I laughed the first time, then again the second time.

I have to admit, I skim that thread a lot. Problem is, there is actually some good information between the hilarious outbreaks!


----------



## theoldfart

So the first section is clamped, blurry iPhone pic, but you get the idea









Clamp time, how long? It's tite bond original. Basement temps about 62 or so.


----------



## bandit571

Been using a home made leg vise. The pipe clamp head on it has finally strppied out. Not even sure how long I've had this old gray pipe clamp. Went to clamp up a slab of walnut, and nothing happened. Got to checking it out, a lot of old black grit was coming out. Cast iron grit. Hmm. had another 1/2" pipe clamp that was falling apart ( lost the pin) and replaced the old gray mare. Still need to attach the clamp to the chop, but it does work.









Just can see the top of the "new" red pipe clamp. Acting as a dog is a pine scrap. One end of the plane stop jig is screwed down, and a cleat is tight to the end of the bench. Dog just keeps things from sliding around a bit.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Kev- I've gotten by with taking clamps off after an hour or two. 24 hours before I try to mill them further, or put the glue under any stress.

Are you going to do a couple sections, or add to that one?


----------



## theoldfart

Red, five sections of three. Mill them lightly then combine them in to two, then one. Seemed to be easier rather than struggling with a hundred pound monster with fifteen legs!


----------



## Pezking7p

^^^Words of a patient man.


----------



## richardwootton

What is this smutty thread to which you guys refer? That sounds like my kind of party!


----------



## theoldfart

Stef of the shop to paraphrase


----------



## mochoa

here you go. You might want to save this pic for later. 
http://lumberjocks.com/replies/784182


----------



## theoldfart

Maur, yer BAD dude!


----------



## mochoa

Its not me its bhog enabled by Stef!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sounds good Kev. I did them in sections of 3 or 4 as well. Then rejointed.


----------



## chrisstef

Hey, I enable all of you to get your most deviant behavior out in one place that can be blocked, hidden, and unseen from most of the world while giggled at by those who find it worth while to participate in said deviance. In the world of the interwebz it's tame in my opinion. Go ahead and remove all your filters and google twin screw vice.

Love this place.


----------



## john2005

Maur, I hate to tell ya but it will never fly. All strecherless and stuff. Seriously though, I like the idea. Starting to look for a place for a joinery bench after lookin at you and Red and I don't even have my first bench built yet!


----------



## theoldfart

…vice being the operative term, eh Stef?


----------



## john2005

Hahah Stef, we all love ya buddy. In a very heterosexual kind of way though so don't go gettin all riled up.


----------



## mochoa

It's a great thread Stef, but at 300 posts per day I just cant keep up. So I save them up and then skim through for the pictures. Most of the really good stuff is picture worthy I figure.

Go for it John, your 2 benches behind so you have some catching up to do.


----------



## theoldfart

SNAP !


----------



## richardwootton

Stef you're truly a saint to enable all of our deviant behaviour!


----------



## theoldfart

Another one bites the dust









A note: red oak when wet with glue STINKS!


----------



## merrill77

Stinks when you cut it, too, IMO


----------



## Slyy

I drop out for 10 hours at work and I see Stef's emitting up the workbench thread now as well, with Mauricio's help too!

Kevin, that glue up is looking great! Glad you could galoot that up some!

Mauricio - that new project is looking pretty good, regardless if you think it's much worthy for posting or not.

Probably oughta tone down the Stef love in here incase Hog finds out and walks over here, I could only imagine the trouble that ensues.


----------



## richardwootton

I thought it was white oak that smelled bad when it was milled . . . On a side note; I've cut the legs and top for my saw bench, squared, flattened and dimensioned everything. I've still got to cut the stretchers, but I'm saving that until I settle on the placement of the legs. Now my only problem is that my legs aren't all the exact same length because I rough cut them by hand, and now I can't seem to figure out the best way to cut them all the same length. I'm guessing the paul sellers knife wall method?


----------



## merrill77

Most everything smells bad compared to pine and walnut. Walnut….yummmmmm! Unless you're allergic


----------



## Airframer

I drop out for 10 hours at work and I see Stef's emitting up the workbench thread now as well

Well, what else is he going to contribute to the thread?


----------



## bandit571

Wet Walnut shavings smells like Polecat!

Might have too narrow a bench









Seems the tool chest is a might too wide….


----------



## shampeon

I don't mind the smell of oak. Hickory is foul.

The best smelling wood is Port Orford cedar, then mahogany.


----------



## BTimmons

Agreed that red oak stinks. Smells like puke, honestly. And then there's how it finishes and looks in general. If I have my way, I'll never touch the stuff again.


----------



## richardwootton

I'll second mahogany, and walnut…


----------



## mochoa

My bench is red oak, never noticed an offensive smell, Peter Follansbe calls it the best stuff on earth! LOL

I won't be using it for anymore furniture though.


----------



## theoldfart

Maur, what did you use for finish?


----------



## Slyy

Call me crazy, (maybe it is and if so stop me) but happened across this yesterday:

















What looks like oak to my novice eye that was cut down about a week ago. Had most of its limbs fall off in an ice storm we had a while back. The SMALLEST piece is about 1.5' diameter and maybe 3.5' long. The base portion is bigger than my SUV. Guy said I could have whatever I want to take. My thought was, if anything else, might be good to make a leg vise out of a piece of that after cutting it up.

Here's where it gets crazy though, I have no bandsaw to resaw with so would do it total galoot style with my 5 1/2 rip saw. Is this even feasible? Certainly not averse to the time and effort it would take. What say ye?


----------



## donwilwol

^no chainsaw?


----------



## Slyy

Well yeah, do have a chainsaw to cut into some smaller pieces, but think I could cut straighter "boards" by hand, plus the stills 18" and much bigger kerf. WOULD use the chainsaw to cut up the base, but figured hand saw would work better to cut the logs into usable lumber. Don't know, what ya think? Not really tried anything like this but figured it might be worth a try. And as said, might be able to get a big enough piece to make a quarter sawn chunk big enough for a leg vice, maybe deadman as well?


----------



## richardwootton

How about an antique pit saw you might find at a flea market or the like? You could possibly set up some kind of make shift pit and get a buddy to help you out. I just don't know what to look for with these kinds of saws as far as rip/crosscut.


----------



## DanKrager

Now THAT'S a shop log! FAS. Why don't you try splitting out boards like the old timers? It's not as hard as it seems (unless you're sticking hedge). Oak splits easily and cleanly if it is frozen. If the grain is straight, you'd get some awesome QS pieces.

It's too long to tell here, and I don't have a ready reference link for planking a log by splitting. But it's doable, and easy with 4' pieces. Been there, done that. Galoot everywhere! Good luck.
DanK


----------



## mochoa

I agree, that's a job for wedges, a maul, and a hewing axe.


----------



## bandit571

Seem to recall St. Roy having a how to in one of his work books. You will also need a froe…..


----------



## john2005

It would be a shame to see all that go to waste Jake. I'd grab what I could and start figuring out a way to break it down. You'd be quite a man by the time you got done splitting it but it would likely reward you. Last resort may be to see if anybody has a portable mill in your area. Then, just like that all that wood got real easy to cut. You loose on the galoot scale that way but we do live in the 2000's. Just sayin

In other news, the base is almost wrapped up and ready for a top. Draw-bored, glued, drilled and chamfered.










Yes it is upside down, not some high strecher model.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Now that's what I'm talkin 'bout.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The stretchers are supposed to be on the bottom. Build another.


----------



## Pezking7p

Stretchers are not in the optimal position. Bench will rack itself into firewood within the week!


----------



## Slyy

Nice work John!! You've definitely made yourself more work now, as clearly these guys are right and your gonna just have to make another! Pez has a point: gonna rack itself to death!


----------



## theoldfart

John, I like the fancy feet!


----------



## terryR

Nah, no racking, John, just stick those tenons down into the concrete floor! LOL


----------



## Mosquito

^ There's an idea lol


----------



## john2005

There's the idea Terry, might be a little hard on my chisels but would definitely not rack. At all. Ever. We're forging into new territory here! Ha!


----------



## richardwootton

Lookin' mighty fine friar John!


----------



## DanKrager

I think John is using trick photography like BRK…It's not sitting on the floor, its on the ceiling. John has a gravity problem, but a damn fine bench no matter how you turn it!
DanK


----------



## Iguana

John - no need to be precise with chiselling out your floor - just use a jackhammer. Make some holes, drop the legs in and then pour in some new concrete. Take care to get the thing level first. And guaranteed to stay level, barring an earthquake or two.


----------



## john2005

Jack hammer and pour it is! Let's hope the wife never wants to move….


----------



## CL810

Bench is looking good John.

Funny stuff.


----------



## terryR

John, even better…

Install a 3" thick hardwood floor, chop out mortices, install bench without glue, so it can be moved!

And don't forget the radiant in floor heating while you're at it…


----------



## john2005

Ooooohh, like that. I would be like a warmer Smitty.


----------



## richardwootton

You guys totally aren't allowing for movement! It'll bow and warp that concrete floor in no time!


----------



## DanKrager

...and losing 3" to the heat, you'd end up banging your head on the ceiling (floor…whichever) like our dwarf brother, BRK.
DanK


----------



## Slyy

This thread is "LumberJocULARITY" at its best. Always love when the "serious" threads take a hard turn into total non-serious rib-poking!!! Strong work fellas.

John, I am worried the racking is going to tear up your floor as well, is it a reinforced slab?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nothin' wrong with a little goofin. I miss being a kid….


----------



## john2005

^BWAHAHAHAHAHA, I totally believe that to be you, Red. That's awesome!


----------



## richardwootton

That kid's clothes are totally being worn by a hipster somewhere who found them at a thrift store.


----------



## shampeon

Red: how did you find my eHarmony profile pic??!! I thought that was set to "private."


----------



## Slyy

O - M - G…........

My wife looked at me six ways cross eyed when I started laughing at that picture!!!!

As of this thread needed more "epic" in it!!!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

hehehe… I've got some real ones from my childhood that are probably just as funny.


----------



## DanKrager

I knew right off that picture wasn't taken by Red's camera. The chickens are WAY too big…
DanK


----------



## john2005

Yeah but it's probably a miniature pig. He was probably at the circus or something. They have giant chickens and tiny pigs, right?

On a serious note, its gettin real here.


----------



## john2005

Now just meet to build chops and a deadman, drill some dog holes and splash some finish on it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Very Nice!!!


----------



## WillliamMSP

That is gettin' real! Nice!


----------



## woodcox

Sweet. Looks very tall.


----------



## Slyy

I smell a bondo pose!!


----------



## Pezking7p

I see you ignored every single suggestion we had about bench design. Touché.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

We call that "pimp sauce" back in the hood John.


----------



## theoldfart

John, yer doin it man.


----------



## mochoa

John that bench is looking amazing man! Great work. Cant wait to see it with finish on it.


----------



## mochoa

Kevin, sorry just getting back to you on your post from 2 days ago. I used 3-2-1 on my bench. Works pretty well, the BLO keeps glue from sticking and the poly a little protection from stains. I only did one coat.


----------



## john2005

Nah, Woodcox, it's not terribly tall, I just have a lot of small tools…..

Seriously though it's about 35.5". My saw horses that I have been using are 35 and sometimes feel just a bit low. I am 6'3" and it's all in the leg so it feels good to me.


----------



## CL810

Looks great John! Looking forward to more pics.


----------



## terryR

Looks very nice, John! Excellent dovetails and craftsmanship!


----------



## Slyy

John, you still actively blogging on your build?
It's looking fantastic so far, can't wait to see her done!


----------



## john2005

Nah, I haven't kept up the blog in awhile. I keep meaning to but our computer died and I'm not about to do it on this tablet. I'm a slow enough typer as it is. I'll get it caught up soon.

Question for the panel. What to finish with? I understand BLO or a mixture thereof is the common thing. What are y'alls thoughts?


----------



## john2005

Also, having never used BLO, (no seriously) gimme some preferred application methods. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Airframer




----------



## BigRedKnothead

I think Clayton blogged about his bench finish method. I use danish oil….which is just a mixture with a little varnish in it.

BLO by itself won't protect much. And it will take forever to dry.


----------



## widdle

I use blo quite a bit for shop stuff…I go 3 oil to 1 mineral spirits +-. Wiped it off after an hour or two, and let it hang for 24 hours..either way works..


----------



## jmartel

Facepalmed when I flipped through the Better Homes and Garden magazine that I have no idea why we get. Never signed up for it. Apparently a leg vise under a table makes for good decor?


----------



## JayT

John, on my bench I used diluted BLO-2 parts MS to 1 part BLO. Used a foam brush to apply, waited a bit and wiped off with a rag. Using the BLO diluted that much allowed it to dry relatively quickly and the finish is easy to refresh. I did three coats and the last one did take a bit to cure-maybe 2 or 3 days.

If doing it again, I don't know if I'd use the BLO,, but with only two coats, or just do a single coat of Watco Danish Oil and call it good.


----------



## merrill77

I just wiped on a coat of tung oil with a rag. Improved the color of my red oak bench a bit and does seem to prevent glue drips from staining if I wipe them up relatively soonish. I specifically did not want any finish to build on the surface that would make it slippery. In fact, I lightly sanded the top and vice areas afterwards.


----------



## lysdexic

John, I also used 3:2:1 and I am very happy with EXCEPT for the top. I like having the protection of a poly film finish for rest of my bench but for the top surface go with a danish oil.


----------



## mochoa

I agree that BLO (any hardware store brand) will do well on the top, it will allow you to do glue ups directly on the top. Let the glue dry and it will pop right off. You will plane it routinely so protecting against staines isnt big deal.

The added poly would be good for the base though. I have a "finishing board" to protect my top when staining or painting or what not but stuff does drip of onto the base so the poly would by good.


----------



## Mosquito

Now that my bench will be moving into a new shop location, I will probably finally apply some finish to it. Only problem is that I've already glued leather to my leg vise chop… I was thinking I might just do some danish oil all around though. But I suppose I could poly all but the top slab, as I've got the ability to remove the top from everything else


----------



## richardwootton

I've been thinking I'd just use the Watco teak oil. I've used it on other projects with good success. Either that or good ol Danish oil.


----------



## richardwootton

Mos, I don't see any problem wiping around the leather with Danish oil, do you think it would interfere with the glue on the chop?


----------



## john2005

Thanks for all the input. Still a ways from making that decision, but want to have some info from experienced individuals to work with.


----------



## Mosquito

that's a good point Richard, I guess it shouldn't hurt the leather, I was just thinking I didn't want to get any oil finish on it, as it may interfere with its intended purpose of adding grip, though I may be wrong on that topic…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

+1 to Watco as an effective (and easy) benchtop finish. Glue does not absorb, it's a hard finish over time but not shiny. Need more, just 'wipe on, wipe off' with some time in between.


----------



## terryR

Trying to clean up the stuff that's always in the tool well…in the way. Shaped this little bracket from ?white oak yesterday that attaches to the sides of my tool well via countersunk hex screws. Love this Veritas clamp when in use, hate storing it in a dog hole, just too difficult to extract sometimes! So, the bracket. A quick turn of the brass knob locks the clamp securely in place. And outta the way!










As you can see, I'm planning a lil surgery on my tool well. Earlier, I bored those square holes in the well for a standard f style clamp to pass through and grab stuff on the bench top, covered the holes with walnut for bling. Unfortunately, the massive rear apron on this bench prevents anyone with a post op back from reaching the stupid clamps! LOL.

Gonna cut the whole mess out and start over!!!


----------



## richardwootton

Looking good Terry, I'm glad you posted this because in my original design ideas I had been planning a bench with a big apron like yours but have since changed direction.


----------



## Sylvain

Today, while looking at 
http://unpluggedshop.com/ , I found something very different about workbenches :
If you don't know your hyvelbenk from a skottbenk - you should

which itself contains the following link

have a look at this

and a pdf document about making wooden screw wich seems very interesting
If only I knew the Sweden language.


----------



## Sylvain

And Shipwright will probably appreciate 
this and this

On the other side this
is about "why make it simple when you can make it complicated".
The double quick clamping mecanism is interesting.


----------



## shipwright

Thanks Sylvain, I do appreciate them. I didn't verify the angles but they may well be "H8 Wedge Powered" 
(That would be "Horizontal 8 degree") I personally prefer vertical because the logo comes out cooler.


----------



## theoldfart

Three of five glue-ups done for the bench top (red oak STILL smells when wet ) and ordered Lake Erie screw set up and BenchCrafted crises cross.. When someone says you can never have enough clamps, heed them!

edit added pic









I counted 27


----------



## richardwootton

Kevin I'm in the same boat and need a lot more clamps! Too bad it's been raining cats and friggin' dogs all damn day, and on my day off, so I haven't made a lick of progress on anything. Crap, now I'm starting to sound like Stef!


----------



## theoldfart

Richard, we may have to have an intervention by the Anti Stef Squad!

I need to make a couple dozen cauls for the final glue-up, it should be a scary time. :0)


----------



## Pezking7p

Kevin has gone clamp crazy!


----------



## woodcox

Busy 24 hours; shop is a mess. Started and finished since last night top to bottom left to right. 
Cabinet top of mdf, melamine insert, oak edging. 
Sharpened new ax. Split and hewn a cherry crook from the yard. 
Failed at carving a cherry spoon. Cracked half way there. 
Made a mallet. 
Got start on a shovel rebuild.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Looking good Kev. I'm lost on oak smelling bad though. All woods have their own scent, but I don't mind most. The scent of walnut is probably my fav. My wife loves that our garage smells like oak.


----------



## kiefer

Posted this in projects and thought this may be of interest to some of the bench guys .


----------



## woodcox

That's it dammit! I'm putting stretchers and feet on my bench!^~and another vise and dog holes….and


----------



## john2005

^clever. I can dig it

Question for the panel. Let's just pretend I have a friend (who didn't take pictures cause of frustration and embarrresment) who is building a bench. He accidentally made the chops for his end vise 6" and not 8" like the instructions say, mostly cause he didn't read them before starting. Now the screw for the vise only has about 1/16" between it and the outside world. Also now out of 8/4stock. Ideas for an easy fix? He's thinking of just adding a 3/4piece to the inside to make it work.
He's such an idiot.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I have a friend who did something like that too John. He drilled the holes for his end vise wrong. I tried to tell him! So he just laminated a piece of 5/8"' oak. Called it good.

He claims he intends to one day get a quick release vise and redo the whole breadboard anyway. 
-









-
Kind ticks me off this "friend" copied my bench though. He really needs to get a life.


----------



## Boatman53

John if I understand correctly, no photos so it is hard to be sure, you are looking to extend the chop down another two inches. No problem, just glue on a piece. There is not often pressure down that low. Most of the forces are at the top. If you wanted to also face it all with a 3/4" piece that would tie it all together.
Jim


----------



## john2005

Good to know my friend is not alone Red. Thanks! Hard to find good friends these days…..

Yes Jim, you would be right. Just need to go down 2". Not only does it look funny but it open a small gap between the chop and top. It's like it's beeping sucked too hard at the bottom. I like your second idea. I should have enough material. To make that fly.

Thanks guys


----------



## DonBroussard

@boatman53-It's not john2005; it's his "friend" that needs advice. I'm sure his "friend" will consider your good advice, though!


----------



## CL810

John, your friend's predicament is of interest to me. When I built my bench I wondered why the chops are extended below the the thickness of the bench. I came to the conclusion it was for aesthetic reasons. I went ahead and did it out of concern that there might be a reason for it that I was unaware of.

I believe your bench top is thick, 3.5 - 4", right? I cannot imagine that not being enough. I'm tempted to say don't worry about it. If it is "thin", say 2", then I'd probably say extend them.

But I still wonder, is there a functional reason for extending the chops?


----------



## john2005

Thanks for the clarification Don, certainly *I* would never do that….

I think what is happening, (mind you I spent little time investigating as I was ma….felt sorry for him) is that the vise travels parrellel then at the end it sucks the bottom in tight, opening up the top. I believe if there were those extra 2" as the directions call for it would pull similar to a leg vise and flush up. I will post a pic when i get home tonight and it will make more sense.

In other news the deadman came out nice. Just needs some holes


----------



## terryR

John, your bench is looking awesome! Love me some walnut…

Thanks for sharing your friends' predicament…I may need all that advise on the next bench…

Hard to believe, but my leg vise chop is STILL 3/8" too tall…I left extra so the base would accept the parallel guide and work nice with my roller wheels. But, never have removed that extra bit on top…still functions nicely, though! 

Love your clamp collection, Kevin. Hope you have a buddy to help lift the bench top into place when done, it looks huge!


----------



## CL810

John, what you're saying sounds logical.


----------



## john2005

So here is what I was faced with.










After some investigation, I realized that in my effort to be precise the hole I made for the screw is not big enough for the marriage washer at the end. A little countersink action and it closes nice and flush. I may still extend the jaw as this is what it looks like.










Probably not a lot of force down there like I had thought so maybe I will just give up some travel and line the insides with 3/4. Either way I was very happy for my friend! 
Funny how you can walk away from something you've been fighting, come back and see right off where the problem is.


----------



## theoldfart

John, nice recovery. Think I'd use it for a while then decide if it needs further work . The bench is looking great.


----------



## Pezking7p

Glad you figured it out, John. The side of your bench has really cool grain. I guess I missed that in the previous pics.


----------



## KayBee

So this bench is for sale on craigs list. Not my bench, don't know the person, but wish I had made it. If anyone's interested, there are more pics.

http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/4356222351.html


----------



## merrill77

That's a pretty bench. I would be scared to get a chisel or saw near it. I've never seen such nice wood at the beach. (couldn't resist)

The builder is pretty proud of it, though. Almost as proud as those dovetails (eek!).


----------



## richardwootton

I'm actually not a big fan of that bench. It looks kind of spindly, or lanky, to me. That could have something to do with the Roubo fever going around.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

John, glad you found your problem. I will say that I had a similar issue on my end vise. Not quite as bad, but still. I took the jaw of and planed it so it tapered a bit as it went downward. Now when you close it, the top edge touches first…just barely. I think this helps with the racking that naturally occurs.

Probably just another issue we over-think with our benches.


----------



## Iguana

I built a Sketchup model for a Roubo over a year ago and have been tweaking all the details ever since. I'll finally be in a position to get the build underway in about 2 weeks. #smackdown here I come!

One of the details I'm obsessing over is the positioning of the back legs and stretchers in relation to the back edge of the top. On the front, there's a pretty good reason to have the front legs be flush with the front edge.

I've looked through a lot of the Roubo projects (& blogs), and where that detail is shown clearly, it looks like everyone has made the back legs flush with the back edge of the top. Is there a good reason to do that?

Note, I'm planning on joining the top to the legs with blind M/Ts near the middle of the legs, rather than use the double through tenon. The legs with be jatoba and I do not fancy planing its end grain to flatten the top


----------



## CL810

Mark, I think in some shops the layout is such that one can work at a bench from the back side as well as the front. Symmetry is another reason, but that's just aesthetics.

What are the advantages of recessed legs?


----------



## grfrazee

@Mark - Having a wider base for the legs also keeps it a bit more stable. Granted, I doubt you'd see much difference if the legs were a couple inches in…


----------



## lysdexic

Mark, 
I built a Roubo based on the woodwhisperer's plans. The top is supposed to be flush with the legs on the back side. However, I ended up with a 1/8" overhang. I planned to plane it flush but over the past two years it never has posed a problem with any operation. Thus it remains.

I know it is not a big overhang but then again it is not flush and square either. FWIW.


----------



## mochoa

Recess the legs and splay the legs so you don't lose the width in the base.  some guys around here have made such benches…


----------



## bandit571

Was in Lowes the other day, returning a POS handplane. Walked through ToolWorld. Picked out a couple router bits to replace the ones I had snapped off… Saw a 6" QR Vise on a shelf, for ~$20….....Any ideas out there???


----------



## john2005

Sorry to play Stef…Clayton said "one can work at a bench from the back side as well as the front." Snicker


----------



## john2005

Hey Red, when did you upgrade to the Lake Erie Screw?


----------



## merrill77

Yikes, that's a big block plane!


----------



## CL810

John looks like you caught him "red handed"!


----------



## richardwootton

That block is to clean up the end grain of entire logs…


----------



## merrill77

I can see where that would be handy…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Busted. What I wouldn't give to find a huge hand plane to take pics of on my bench;-)


----------



## john2005

Looks to be LN to boot. I think you should make one. It would make for an awesome Bondo pose.


----------



## theoldfart

Next to last section glue-up, never skimp on glue!









Smooth and repeat as necessary









Gettin' there!


----------



## richardwootton

Bring it Kevin!


----------



## john2005

Atta boy Kevin, git er done!


----------



## CL810

Anticipation is building!


----------



## theoldfart

Trepidation as well! Now I have to glue up the sections to make two larger ones then join the two. I'm thinking to sort of work out from the middle; join two together then join one each on the outside edges. I think this will be easier to keep flat. I'm cutting cauls now from the scrap rips and planing a curve on them.


----------



## richardwootton

Kevin, what's the purpose behind planing a curve into the cauls?


----------



## darinS

*richard* I believe it is to help distribute the clamping pressure over the entire area. A flat caul would have the most pressure next to the clamps and would diminish the farther you get from said clamps. The curve helps get more pressure where there is no clamp.

Hope I explained that well enough.


----------



## theoldfart

Richard, Darin is spot on. I'll position the high spot of the caul on the center of the width being glued. In my case I need to make sure the section seams stay aligned. If you were to face glue wide panels the high spot would maintain pressure at the middle of the glue up.


----------



## CL810

Kevin, are you using biscuits or dowels to line up the sections for the top? I did for mine and was very glad I did.


----------



## lysdexic

^ +1 on the use of biscuits or dowels to maintain alignment.. I did the same.


----------



## ToddJB

All, I just came across this on CL. No info, but the price tag is $150. Looks old to me, what do you think I would be getting into to get her up and running?


----------



## theoldfart

Andy & Scotty, I hadn't thought about it. Would short softwood dowels do it?


----------



## richardwootton

Todd that looks pretty darn cool to me!


----------



## theoldfart

Todd, BUY IT BOY! Sag on the tail vise doesn't seem too bad and the screws are worth twice that.


----------



## merrill77

For that price, if it was sturdy (no racking), I'd buy it. Or if it looked like eliminating the racking would be easy (e.g. wedging some tenons, filling some dovetail gaps, etc), then I'd bargain down the price and buy. Otherwise, I'd rather build new than fix.


----------



## theoldfart

I think I see a groove for a deadman on the front stretcher.


----------



## donwilwol

Todd, that Bench would easily bring $1200-$1800 in antique shops around here. You better bring it home before it becomes a tv center.


----------



## ToddJB

I sent him an email - no number was provided. We'll see.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Good luck, Todd. That bench is a must for that price…


----------



## CL810

*Todd*, add me to the list of buy it! You can then use it, use the screws and nuts in new bench, or resell it.

*Kevin* I used poplar dowels.


----------



## ToddJB

I just emailed again with the sob story of a young aspiring woodworker carrying on the legacy of a well loved bench yada yada… we'll see.


----------



## richardwootton

Kevin it does look like a slot for a deadman. That's a cool bench. Back to the cauls, how much curve needs to be planed into the cauls and does it have to be really precise?


----------



## theoldfart

Not much. Take a 24" piece of stock and mark the center. Take a jack or try and starting about 2-3" from the center plane a thin shaving all the way to the closest end. Go another 2-3" from the last mark and take another shaving to the end and so on. Do the same to the other end. You should wind up with a slight arc the whole length. The same thing can be done with a power joiner. Be sure that the grain runs parallel to the sides for strength. I'm sure there are lots of woodworkers out there with their own method of doing these. I thing either Woodcraft or Lee Valley sells them as well.


----------



## john2005

That would be a sweet catch there Todd. Somethin with some history. Looks cool too.

Kevin, +1 on dowels for alignment. I didnt (although I did my top in sections like you) and the final assy the pieces slid. I was so worried about keeping it flat and tight, I didn't notice till it was too late. Took a top that was supposed to be an extra inch long and made it an inch too short! Then again, its just an inch, but still


----------



## shampeon

As the glaciers carved Yosemite valley, so do I work toward my goal.


----------



## richardwootton

Those pins are lookin' sweet brotha!


----------



## Ttier315

Wow, I'm new to the site and I'm blown away by what I see. I see I've got a lot of improving to do before I mix it up with you fella's


----------



## richardwootton

Welcome to LJs tteir, it's a great community. And don't worry too much about stepping up your game, you can just kick it with me.


----------



## theoldfart

John, gotcha
Ian, damn!
Tier and Richard, everyone here has someone better. We strive to improve, it's the only requirement.


----------



## CL810

tier, many a first project/first bench has been built in this thread. Jump in the water is fine!!


----------



## woodcox

Another bench Ian? Nice! I don't remember seeing your big slab top further than the breadboards.


----------



## shampeon

Same one, woodcox. I was just doing a test fitting of the endcaps/aprons. These are by far the biggest dovetails I've ever made.

And yeah, no need to feel shy about this stuff, tier. There's nothing like the present.


----------



## woodcox

I believe I see it gangster leaning. Tails look good mang!


----------



## ToddJB

Oh and by the way…










more to come…


----------



## theoldfart

Ya got it?


----------



## shampeon

Sweet, sweet old bench. Nice pickup, ToddJB.


----------



## Airframer

So what does that mean for the other bench you were working on? Joinery bench now?


----------



## woodcox

Pretty cool Todd. Mayb look for a signature.


----------



## CL810

GREAT buy Todd! You very lucky man. Oh wait a minute, I see a blemish, better pm me your address so I can take it off your hands.


----------



## Slyy

Todd awesome pickup!!!! Can't wait to see more!


----------



## Slyy

SaW this the other day, THOUGHT it read $125….... Ummm no! I'd like to know where he saw all the $1600 benches….
http://tulsa.craigslist.org/mat/4343471260.html


----------



## chrisstef

Well hell yea Todd! Gloatable purchase. Gimme like an hours heads up before you post a full walk around on the bench. Ill make a drink, couple of snacks, and get comfortable for the unveil.


----------



## CL810

Jake, when I do come across them they seem to be in the $1,200 - $1,600 range.


----------



## Slyy

Wow Clayton, before I knew what woodworking even WAS I'd see some of these on Clist in the $5-600 range, guess it was a deal then!!!! Just like I saw a stanley No 80 about 6 months ago for $2….. Still mad at myself for not getting that, but at the time I didn't know anything about it.


----------



## donwilwol

Todd, that's a major gloat. You deserve a big "YOU SUCK" for that. I've been looking for a vintage bench for a while. I've never seen anything under $650.

I must say it doesn't look as old as the first set of pictures but Either way its a steel!


----------



## DanKrager

Did Todd just do a smackdown?

Way to go man!
DanK


----------



## richardwootton

Woodcox, ain't nothin' but a g thang…


----------



## Slyy

Bondo pose is still required I think, should we take a vote?
Consider it the first: Yay!


----------



## CL810

+1 on the Bondo. I mean really, how else would we know it really happened???


----------



## donwilwol

for you central NY guys, $250, http://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/tld/4364580305.html










Its just something I stumbled onto. Nothing to do with me.


----------



## richardwootton

That's a pretty sweet looking bench Don. Especially for $250


----------



## donwilwol

If it was a little closer I might buy it just because, but I don't need it. I hope somebody who does see's it.


----------



## shampeon

Ok, end caps are in place, and now for the aprons.









Why didn't I use the paste wax on the first one? The second one went in a lot easier.









This thing is a beast. I hope I can tame it.


----------



## theoldfart

Ian looks great and nice condors, base needs work!


----------



## DanKrager

TOF, those are CLASSIC bench legs. I gotta admit, I've never thought about going to this much trouble to put a top on a Workmate…

Looking good, Ian. Those clamps were just about at their limits, weren't they?
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Lookin' good Ian.


----------



## richardwootton

Lookin' great Ian!


----------



## lysdexic

Ian, how did you execute your pins?


----------



## john2005

Nice score Todd! +2 on the bondo.

Lookin sweet Ian!


----------



## CL810

*Ian*, massive skills display! Regarding the end caps; how are you allowing for wood movement in the top?


----------



## shampeon

lysdexic: I used a miter gauge and basically eyeballed the angle, locked it in, measured the locations, then marked the lines with a fine mechanical pencil. I used some squares to transfer the lines to the other side, then repeated the marks.

I then knifed in the lines and used a chisel to make a knife wall for the cuts. After that, it was hand sawing the lines with a dovetail, then carcass saw when I bottomed out the dovetail saw. I chipped out the waste in between the pins with a chisel, making a knife wall just before the pencil depth line, then finished it up by paring the rest to the line.

I transferred the pins to the end caps to make the tails, marking first with the fine pencil, then a wide chisel just inside the line. I used the condor tail procedure where you first hand chisel the initial fit, then use a router to route to depth. Worked pretty well, even though I don't like using my router very much.

CL810: I've actually got two end caps going, sort of. The inside caps have a floating tenon and are drawbored:

















The end caps with the tails are bolted in. You can see the holes for the bolts here:









I wanted to be able to remove the aprons/endcaps if I ever wanted to replace them, so they're only mechanically attached to the rest of the top. It's turning out to have a sort of art deco look to it.


----------



## lysdexic

Just wondered if you used the router method.


----------



## merrill77

Ian, I'm a little confused by the double endcap design…It seems to me that as the top shrinks, the two (long) outer boards will be forced to split off the inner top by the inner cap. What am I missing?


----------



## shampeon

Chris: the outer boards aren't glued to the rest of the top. They're only attached to the outer end-caps via the dovetails. The dovetails aren't glued.

The inner endcap has space in the drawbored tenons for movement by the inner top. The outer endcap will probably move with the other endcap, but it's connected with bolts to the inner endcap, so even if it moves at a different rate it should be ok.


----------



## john2005

I think it's a very interesting design Ian. Sounds like you've really thought it out. I like it.


----------



## CL810

Ian, are there other reasons for two end caps besides being able to replace the outer end cap? Did you leave the pins a bit "long" to accommodate the top expanding? This design is interesting.


----------



## CL810

Edit: WTH! How do you post those project cards??


----------



## CL810

Take a look at Kiefer's innovative leg vise.

The last you tube video link is the final version.


----------



## theoldfart

Cleaned up the mess









All five sections glued 









Rough trimmed









Next up joint and plane one more time and glue it all up!


----------



## shampeon

Looking good, Kevin.

CL810: I wanted some extra length, as the big slab was a little short, so I added the initial endcaps knowing that i needed to add aprons. And when I finally decided I wanted to dovetail the aprons in, I needed another endcap. 8^)


----------



## Airframer

Ian - the question I have is.. if the aprons aren't glued to anything including their endcaps.. what is to stop them from forming a gap between themselves and the inner slab when the inner slab contracts?


----------



## shampeon

Eric: I'm considering bolting them to the inner slab to keep gaps from forming. I don't expect the movement differential to be that great, since their grain is running the same direction, and the aprons are also red oak.

Living in San Francisco, the humidity and temperature is pretty consistent all year (August: 65 degrees and foggy; January: 57 degrees and raining), so I don't think movement is as much of a problem as, say, the upper midwest or east coast.


----------



## Pezking7p

I'm definitely making that vise!


----------



## DanKrager

Love Kiefer's leg vise. I would love to build one, too, but I haven't figured out how a single pedal closes the half nuts just before applying pressure. It's a stroke of genius in the end.
DanK


----------



## Iguana

I have a question for those of you who have built a bench that has legs mortised into the top without using through tenons - how much does your bench rack? I've been looking through the smackdown projects and see that most that go down the big leg/thick top route use a through tenon, but a few don't. *Don W*, *Smitty*, *bondo* and *lysdexic*- I'm talking about you.

The reason I ask is that I'm considering adding a top stretcher in the back as an anti-rack feature. Just wondering if it is necessary.

Here's the design so far (minus hardware).

Front:









Back:









The the left and right end of the base (legs and stretchers) will be glued together while the front and back stretchers will be bolted. Top will have mortices to accept tenons on top of legs, but not be glued on. (Maybe lag bolts) This to allow some portability.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mark, my bench does rack some. Likely because my stub and draw-bored tenons weren't tight fitting to the mortises I cut (rather clumsily at the time, I'll admit). I've placed a cast-iron shelf bracket between the front and back legs on the right side and it stabilized things. So, short answer, your three-sides stretcher idea is sound and warranted.


----------



## mochoa

My tenons are not through tenons, no glue, draw bored, and I have absolutely no wracking. I do a lot of heavy planing to as I don't own a power jointer, no issues.


----------



## donwilwol

Mark, my bench has never racked. The only drawback to the stretcher would be cleaning out the top of the cabinet if you ever decide to add one.


----------



## merrill77

The quality/precision of the joinery has as much influence (or more?) as the type of joinery. I used bed-bolt-style connections between my lower stretchers and legs. I also have stretchers under the top with similar joinery there. No tenons at all. Top is attached with pocket-hole screws in the top stretchers. The bench didn't rack a bit. Since then I've added a cabinet under the bench that is screwed into the legs and lower stretchers. If there was some undetectable amount of racking before, the cabinet certainly eliminated it.


----------



## TobiasZA

Hi. This is my first post. I made the bench aboout 15 years ago and it has served me very well. The top is "Boekenhout"Cape Beech, with African Padauk dog strips and dovetailed maple surrounds. The main vice and two tail vices are all wood with 1 1/2"maple shafts with hand cut threads. The bench dogs are Veritas and the frame is Mansonia. It only looks this nice because I cleaned it up for the move into the new woodshop.


----------



## merrill77

That's a beauty!


----------



## lysdexic

Mark,

I have not noticed any racking but all my mortises are draw bored and glued including the top left and right stretchers. That does mean that the base will remain whole during any transport.

The top is attached with stub tenons and spax screws.

If you are going to bolt the bottom front and back stretchers I can see how you would worry about racking and see no downside, other what Don said, to an upper rear stretcher.

I like your idea.


----------



## BTimmons

Tobias, that is a really pretty setup. I can definitely tell that's your happy place.


----------



## ToddJB

All, I'm starting a blog on the bench I just picked up.

http://lumberjocks.com/ToddJB/blog/40243

As for the Bondo post comments - I will have to decline. I haven't earned a Bondo pose. This bench was a blessing. I didn't earn it with months of sweat and skill like the others. It only cost me some gas, sleep, and cash.


----------



## Airframer

^ load of BS.. Not getting off that easy (easy Stef) I demand a pose!


----------



## theoldfart

^+1 :0)


----------



## grfrazee

@Mark Kornell - For my bench (see the second picture), I used stopped tenons for the tops of the legs into the benchtop. The short stretchers right below the bench are lag-bolted into the bottom of the top. I haven't noticed any racking whatsoever.


----------



## ToddJB

Okay okay okay. Once, I get her up and running, I'll consider a Bondo Pose, but I must admit, I've only seen perversions of the original. Where might I find the OG Pose?


----------



## JayT

Todd, the bondo original is post #3844 of this thread.


----------



## Slyy

Tobias, you've got a cool looking setup there! Also welcome to LJ's!!!


----------



## shampeon

+1 on Tobias's bench. That's really beautiful. Padauk dog hole stips are top-shelf.


----------



## ToddJB

JayT - thanks. I needed the original muse. For any other relatively new folks -this is what is being referenced:


----------



## ToddJB

Double post


----------



## TobiasZA

Thanks for your comments everyone, I really appreciate the warm welcome.


----------



## CL810

Tobias, +1 on all the comments. She's a peach!


----------



## lysdexic

Tobias,

Your dog strips intrigue me. Why are they dovetailed into the end cap?


----------



## richardwootton

+1, I was curious about that as well. It looks good, but I was just curious if there was a structural purpose.


----------



## RGtools

Double post, but I felt the need to hit this forum too:

I thought I would share something just to show I was still around, alive and working wood from time to time . This year has been dominated by medical crap…which is unfortunate, but at least starting to come to an end. If it was not the doctor's office, it was the gut job I did to make my wife's closet better, or her craft room bigger.

Here is my current stress relief project. A simple three legged stool out of some very slow growing pine.



















Also upgraded my tail vise from the total waste of metal I had before. If anyone it thinking of pulling the trigger on the Shop Fox vise, and is worried about it being on the "cheap" side, go ahead and spend the cash. It is all function and no form (the paint chips and it holds like a demon on a damned soul), I love it.










Grampa is using his bench like mad, which I can't say how happy that makes me.










And last but not least, I FINALLY got my lathe mounted. I used the massive header beam that I did not need because the wall i was certain would be load bearing turned out to be 1/2" from the trusses of the roof. Moral of the story, never check things before you by a massive quantity of wood…it will work out in the end.


----------



## Iguana

Nice bench, Tobias. More pics!

Your tool till is way too organized


----------



## Iguana

Thank y'all for the feedback on the top rear stretcher - I will keep it in the design.

Here's an x-ray of the leg joinery at the top rear. (Left in this case, but mirror image for right)










Top rear tenon (to mortise in benchtop) is 1"x3", 2" long. I will probably end up making this a double tenon. Oriented to allow top to expand to the rear. Top front tenons will be oriented 90° from this to lock in the positioning of the front of the top to the leg.

Double mortise for the side stretcher for more glue surface.

Rear stretcher to be mortised in, but joint held together with bolt and square barrel nut.


----------



## TobiasZA

Hi guys and thanks for the comments. Regarding the Padauk dog strips. The are dovetailed into the maple end caps. I did this partly for fun and partly for strength. When I built this bench, I was worried about racking and warping so I over engineered where I could. So… The end caps are bolted to the Cape Beech block with silver steel bolts that can be adjusted. They are behind the Paudauk cover board that is on the Maple end cap. There are seven bolts and they have barrel nuts in the Beech. All of the bench top barrel nuts are plugged with African blackwood. So.. with the big dovetails coming in from the side and the dog strip dovetailed from the top and the bolts, I figured nothing can move. The entire bench has remained dead flat since I built it. In retrospect it was probably overkill….


----------



## terryR

Tobias, overkill is completely acceptable on a bench build, IMO! It is the ONE tool in the shop that has to perform without complaints or movement. Although, I might be tempted to keep my chisels on top of the leather roll for such a nice bench.  My bench is just borg pine.

Nice stuff, Ryan. Love seeing your Grandpa's bench! Thanks for the review of the Shop Fox vise…I need an end vise and have been looking, never even considered that model…until NOW.


----------



## woodcox

Four legs at 5-1/4" on the hoof.








3/4" stubbed tennons into the top.

Rails will be 6"x 2-1/2" about 30" long. Legs are old Douglas fir, rails are from fresh 2×8s. For drawboring, are 2-1/4" long tenons adequate in this stuff? End rails will be shorter at 3-3/4"x 2-1/2". Front and back rails flush with the legs. Any draw backs to putting end rails flush on the inside of the leg faces opposed to flush on the outside leg faces?


----------



## theoldfart

Woodcox, nice legs. I wound up with 5 1/8" square DF. I don't think the side stretchers need to flush with outside edge, only the front and back stretchers.


----------



## john2005

I went flush all the way around. For obvious reasons on the front and the leg end so I had room for a parallel guide. It only made sense to make the other two the same. Quicker and easier. If you aren't running a leg vise, probably doesn't matter as much. The guide can also ride above the strecher but you get more power with it low.


----------



## theoldfart

Just got notified that the BenchCrafted CrissCross is on its way. Still waiting on Lake Erie.


----------



## john2005

So would have preferred a lake Erie, but just wasn't in the budget. Maybe a future upgrade?


----------



## bandit571

Somewhere, under all that other stuff









Is a used/abused bench? Toolwell even has a few planes in it….


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Perusing old woodworking photos. Here's one of my first bench…and my first daughter. Thought it might make someone else smile.


----------



## mochoa

Tobias, amazing work space man!

Ryan, great to hear form you man, Great tip on the vise. I'll have to check it out. 
Great to see grandpa' working the bench! And you have the most bad ass lathe bench ever, sweet beam.

Red, great pic, start them early.


----------



## mochoa

My "joinery" bench is pretty much done. Besides slapping a finish on it and making a vise that is.










Its kind of a split top design, the filler strip can be flipped and to use as a planing stop, also lets me get camps in there to hold work down. 

































I will probably make a twin screw, I'm just not in the mood to do it right now. I want to make some furniture.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Awesome pic, Red.

Mauricio, nice job. Do the cabinets underneath interfere with clamping at all?


----------



## terryR

Love the bench, Mauricio. You guys sure knock stuff out quickly! 

What kind of clamp are you using mid-top? I left square holes in my tool well for the same purpose, but cannot reach them due to the aprons…not to mention cabinets! Up-side down F-clamp? C-clamp? gotta know…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Maur, that looks like a fine bench setup! I haven't succumbed to the 'joinery bench' revolution, but at the same time wouldn't argue against any bench build (unless it involved peg board, of course). Speaking of which, is that a piece of pegboard against the wall, behind your new joinery bench?
.
.
.
:0)

Bless your heart.


----------



## ToddJB

Maur, nice. What kind of vise are you going to make?


----------



## theoldfart

Maur, well done. Looking to see some action shots.


----------



## CL810

Maur that split top joinery bench looks real nice. I think that split was a smart move. +1 on the action shots.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice bench Mauricio. I had the same question about the cabinets being in the way.

Red - is that the bench inspector looking for defects?


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Guys!

Billy, the cabinets are not attached so if they ever got in the way I can just move the bench easily.

Terry, this one is pretty quick and dirty which is why it seems like it went fast, took me longer than expected though, Schwarz had a blog recently where a guy made one of these in 6hrs!

I was thinking upside down F clamps, it did work for cutting out the notches on the filler strip. 









Smitty, I'm not a huge joinery bench proponent… yet. I needed a counter top so I figured, why not make it a bench to, and while I'm at it, lets make it tall!

For the record, I hate peg board! The tool cabinet on the wall replaced the peg board I had. I still keep it behind the bench, maybe I can use it for drilling shelf pins one day.

Todd, I'm thinking wooden twin screw. I already made this one that is laying around. Would just have to make one more. 









Kevin, I'll be sure to post some action shots when the action happens.


----------



## ToddJB

That screw looks great.


----------



## mochoa

I told my wife that now I need a third bench for the sharpening/metal working corner of the bench. Currently they are metal and MDF shelves. She had other ideas… Like making that bed I've been promising her.


----------



## theoldfart

Maur, I see socks but no crocs. Hmmm. Guess the "real men" got to you! ;0)


----------



## mochoa

I'm working on making wooden clogs. I already have one order in from Stef.


----------



## richardwootton

Maur, lookin' good man! Did you glue and screw the top to the base?


----------



## mochoa

No, there was not much glue used. Only to glue up the trestles and one of the top slaps. Everything else is just screwed down.

There is to much cross grain action happening on this bench design. I figure the screws with no glue would allow some flexing. And this also allows me to take it apart if needed.


----------



## yuridichesky

Mauricio, great bench!


----------



## john2005

Smart work there Maur


----------



## ToddJB

I think I found my bench's brother… looks like at some point someone covered the tool well. But this is a good shot of what their deadmans looked like.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=161174220494


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I have a bench that's much like your new arrival, gotta find a pic. It's at my dad's shop now…

EDIT: Look at fourth shop pic. Curve to the end vise is same as yours, btw.

http://lumberjocks.com/Smitty_Cabinetshop/workshop


----------



## ToddJB

Awesome! Did you put the drawer unit in it? I'm considering doing something like that, but that can be removed as to not take away form it's original state if I need to. As it stands, it's a little lighter than I'd like.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That drawer set is just a box, able to slide into the space and sits on the stretchers. Most definitely not permanent, and added by the previous owner (an organ manufacturing co). Adds a lot to the bench, and was the inspiration to add the drawer set to my current bench, too.


----------



## john2005

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-19th-C-Carpenter-s-Deep-Wooden-Bench-Vise-with-Unique-Cast-Iron-Handle-/300986042519?pt=Folk_Art&hash=item46142a8897

This handle is pretty cool


----------



## Slyy

Maur the joinery bench is looking great. That split too design is a very nice touch indeed.


----------



## theoldfart

Postman delivered a box today









It had some arn in it!


----------



## CL810

And the fun begins!!


----------



## theoldfart

Soon, waiting on Lake Erie.


----------



## john2005

Nice!!!


----------



## richardwootton

Super sweet! That's iron? I mean . . . arn?


----------



## theoldfart

Pretty sure with stainless plates and pins


----------



## terryR

Congrats, Kevin! I look forward to watching the install…

After only a year, I'm tired of bending over to reach my parallel guide pin. Arrgggh! Kinda like raising and lowering the table on the cheapo drill press with every use.


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, Benchcrafted has a retro ft version
Same criss cross with bracket mounts, you just have to cut the mortises.


----------



## terryR

Sure thing, Kevin, just plop another $300 down on bench goodies! LOL. Wife will shoot me right now…we just had 2 baby goats born yesterday, and more coming any day. If I purchase anything besides kidding equipment or rough construction lumber for the barn, she'll kill me.

Of course, when the dust settles, she'll appreciate those kidding pens I built, electrical wiring I ran…then MY toys get bought! 

Bidding on a 40 1/2, just sayin…


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, $300? It's $139.00!
Love my SW 40 1/2, removes stock fast!!


----------



## DanKrager

Terry, I have one of those "cheapo" drill presses without the crank to raise and lower the table. It's a Delta 31" radial drill press. I like the reach and that the head can be tilted. But raising and lowering the table is a PITA. So, I have a small, say 10×18, auxiliary table which I lay upon pairs of 1-2-3 and 4-5-6 blocks. It's quick to pick the right orientation of a pair of riser blocks and place the auxiliary table on top. I use this setup for onesies and twosies. If more precision or repetitive precision is required I go to the trouble to set the whole table with fence at the right height.
DanK


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Dan. I sorta do the same. Even have the table top unit clamped to the work surface and the head rotated 90 degrees so I can drill something floor height if needed (free hand). Been using 3/4" birch ply in onesies and twosies as you mentioned…got duct tape holding your twosies together? 

I guess $140 isn't too bad for a criss-cross retro-fit. Although, I really could use an end vice first…

Kev, just kidding ya on the 40 1/2…I have no room in my french fit toolchest! LOL


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, I tol' ya not to rubik cube your chest.


----------



## shampeon

I've been seriously considering the Benchcrafted cross. I keep getting seduced by the idea of a leg vise, but haven't totally given in yet.

But here's a question: why not use the retrofit version for a new vise? It seems like it'd be easier to mortise a section than to risk drilling the pin holes off axis through 5"+ of wood?


----------



## DanKrager

Ian, doesn't the Kiefer leg vise design intrigue you? I can't wait for the Sketchup to be posted, because that is just plain clever. It addresses almost all the known issues with leg vises. 
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Ian, the retro fit was $40 more plus the mortises on the retro fit must be coplaner on both the leg and the chop. I am betting that I can drill the pin holes square and on the mark. I'll let you know how I did in a few weeks!


----------



## Pezking7p

Kiefer vise! I've just spent about an hour watching the video and reviewing his sketches. I'm still not 100% on a couple items but I think I could make it…probably.


----------



## DanKrager

I plan to make one after the details become available, and I don't even have a place for a leg vise!

Yet.

DanK


----------



## shampeon

I guess from where I sit I find it easier to make the bottom of the mortise hole coplaner with the top with a router plane or a router than to eliminate bit wandering.

I've got a pretty good technique for drilling perpendicular holes with a drill press and an index pin, but even still, bits wander.


----------



## shampeon

I like the Kiefer vise, it looks pretty brilliant. But I want to see a couple more implementations first.


----------



## DanKrager

Ian, I posted a review about twist drill sharpener by Tormek that I'm pretty excited about. How would I go about measuring bit wander in a deep wood hole?
DanK


----------



## shampeon

Dan: that's a tough one. The thicker and shorter the bit, the less chance of it wandering. But wood hardness and grain patterns affect it, too (an unseen knot can really mess you up). I'm sure sharper bits are better than dull ones, but twist bits that start to wander also will shave away at the already-drilled shaft, exacerbating the problem. Brace bits are better on this count, but aren't easy to keep perpendicular. And of course runout in the drill press is also a factor.

Drilling through-holes for the strings in a Telecaster guitar is a good example of how difficult it is to keep bits from wandering. Even though the body is typically only 1.75" thick, even with a drill press, the only way to make sure the out holes are in line is to use an index pin and drill halfway, then flip the body and drill the other half.

For a 5-6" thick leg, you're basically talking about a very long twist bit even if you're using a drill press, an index pin, and drilling halfway. If I were executing this, I'd take very small bites, maybe 1/4" at a time, and then lift the bit to clear out the hole. And don't put a lot of pressure on the drill press.


----------



## richardwootton

Ian, have you thought about Jim's leg vise chain guide?


----------



## CL810

*Ian*, when drilling the holes for the pins you will want to drill the hole in the chop before you cut it to shape. For my chop that ended up being 9". I commented on this issue in a brief blog.

*Kevin*, has Lake Erie shipped?


----------



## theoldfart

Lake Erie shipping 3/24.
Andy, what bit did you use to drill the pin holes? I'm assuming a job length brad point.


----------



## CL810

Kevin I could not find a 3/8" brad point long enough to do the entire length. So I went as deep as I could with my regular brad point bit the switched to a spade. Took my time.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, my idea is similar to yours. Go as deep as I can (Stefs not listening is he?) with the brad point then switch to my brace. I'd do it from both sides.
Another question for you, Drill first then mortise?


----------



## CL810

Kevin, I drilled before mortises but I can't member if I had a reason why I did it that way. It would seem that doing the mortises first would reduce the chance of the bit hitting something that could cause it to wander.


----------



## theoldfart

i was concerned with blowing out the side of the mortise.


----------



## kiefer

Anybody tried a pocket hole bit ?
3/8 DIA and nice and long .


----------



## bandit571

Anyone need a 3/8" by16" screw tipped auger bit?

Seems to be just sitting around the shop, not doing a blasted thing.

( you'd be surprised what some of those "Sparkies" throw away on a job site…)

Found some old rough leather ( easy stef) and thinking it might work in the Great Pipe Clamp Leg Vise i'm using. Tack the strip to the bench, or the moving part of the vise???

( Old nail pouch, be surprised at what they were made of,,,,real suede leather..)


----------



## lysdexic

Aged flatus,

I heard that some one has already blown out your mortise.


----------



## shampeon

Richard: Jim's chain guide is right up there with the criss-cross. I really like Jim's design, and it'd be simpler to install in some ways. The criss-cross has the advantage of only needing a clear path for the vise screw.

Andy: good tip.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, just finished going over the installation instructions for the cross and screw( S&M anyone?). How did you accommodate the stretcher tenons with the cross mortises? My legs (bench legs that is) are 5 1/8" square. End stretchers are the same. Front stretcher is something like 5 1/8" thick by 4" wide.

Think I'm going to draw it out full size and see how to make it all work.


----------



## CL810

*Kevin* - On the end stretcher you just have to offset the tenon so the mortise for it on the front leg is cut so that it does not weaken the back side of the criss cross mortise. That is, the end stretcher's mortise should stay between the criss cross mortise and the outside of the leg.

Are you draw boring the front stretcher? The mortise for the front stretcher's tenon can go as close to the criss cross mortise as you like. If I'm following your dimensions correctly, you'll have about 1-11/16" between the criss cross mortis and the inside of the leg. I'd make that front stretcher's tenon very thick so it won't blow out when you put the pin in.

Make sense?


----------



## john2005

It took me 15 hrs, but I finally got Scotty's joke. Man I'm with it. Blaming the head cold


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, in the process of rethinking the size of my stretchers.
AND another question for Andy, how much distance from the top of the screw to the top of your bench?


----------



## CL810

Kevin, I have 5". It all depends on the height of your bench. The criss cross mortise length is set and the diameter of your screw is set. So the only control you have is how low do you start the criss cross mortise and how close to the top of the mortise do you start the hole for the vise screw.

Another thought to remember, the greater that distance is, the more you are bending over to tighten/loosen the vise. That's what makes me wish I had a wheel instead of a handle.


----------



## BustedClock

Did somebody say 3/8" auger? I like 3/8" augers. They make nice holes for dowels-at least one of the five at school makes nice holes for dowels. Or, maybe, it's the nut behind the top brace pad. Anyway, if you're letting it go, I would be happy to provide a good, caring, home for it!


----------



## shampeon

Used the old Disston with Wally's new plate to cut a tenon for a leg today.


----------



## bandit571

I think this is the bit in question









It does have a screw on the tip, but the chuck end is a hex type. About 16" long, by 3/8" diameter

PM if you all want it


----------



## CL810

Dang Ian, how big is that leg?


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, it looks like a ships bore drill.


----------



## richardwootton

Ian, that looks awesome! I would love to get one of Wally's saws, or even one of his plates. Do you know if he's doing this for more people?


----------



## shampeon

Richard: I PM'd him here (Wally331) after he offered to make a plate for Chrisstef's dovetail saw, as that Disston's old plate was shot. It's pretty dang sharp, and as you can see, cuts pretty clean and straight.

Andy: The legs are 5.5" x 3.75". I haven't totally decided on the final height, so they're a little long right now. Reclaimed Dougie fir beams from a home in Castro Valley. Very tight grain.


----------



## Airframer

"Objects clamped in a Workmate may appear larger than they really are"


----------



## woodcox

5-1/4"x 5-1/8".









First rail mortise off the drill press, 4-1/2"x1-3/8" aboot 2-3/8" deep. Nine more to go. Am pondering a router template for fast trimming. This will also get to a smaller corner radii and less tenon prep.










First of six rails drying. A few months ago the ghetto HD near me had 36" cabmasters on clearance for $34 which is a few bucks less than I've seen on the web. Now they only carry 24" & 48". Today, I saw they still have six of the 36" cabs kind of stashed and unmarked still there. I picked up a couple and plan to get the rest soon. Am liking my new tradesman's too.

Ian, I covet that toight tightness.

"She asked me put a hand in, so I did. Then she asked me to put two hands in, so I obliged. She told me to clap. I can't I said. See, told ya my mortise was tight."


----------



## widdle

Lookin good woodcox…And we may have a new clamp record…


----------



## kwolfe

I am trying to make a new bench pretty cheap to start because money is tight. I see a lot of benches that are ,made by laminating lots of boards together so that they create a very thick top. I have some left over 2×10 s that would work as a top. If I glue an extra 2×4 under where the dogs holes go to provide a deeper hole, would that work?


----------



## john2005

If you have enough 2×10s you could rip and re glue to make the whole top 4".


----------



## CL810

Kwolfe, check out this bench by Shipwright.


----------



## terryR

kwolfe, I think you are asking if you can use the 2 by's flat for a work top???

yes and no.

yes, Mauricio just built his joinery bench sorta like that, but the wood movement will make flattening the top a frequent chore without supports around the perimeter.

Ripping the 2by's into whatever thickness you prefer and re-gluing into a slab has less chance of movement, and tends to stay flatter from what I've read and heard. My bench is only a year or so old, but no movement yet.

Yes, it's more work, but really worth the effort if you want a workhorse of a benchtop.


----------



## mochoa

Shamp, pristine hand saw work there buddy, good job!

Woodcox, I tried a couple of different mortising methods, my favorite was just using a straight bit and an edge guide. You can clamp or tack some stops down to if you want.

I added a shelf to a wing of my new secondary bench. (Made from 2×6's and 2×12's) Pretty stoked about it, I now have a place to store all my Braces and bits! I might make a hanger so that the braces can hang from the bottom of the shelf.


----------



## bandit571

Something to make a square corner with?









This one is about 7/8" per side. Just a small one…


----------



## shampeon

Anyone ever compared corner chisels with just registered firmer chisels for squaring up mortises?


----------



## bandit571

Don't remember ever needing this big of one. Most of mine are a lot smaller chisel work. Getting those edges RIGHt is almost the hardest part

This one is a "PEXTO" made one. By the looks of the metal, it was forged. The inside of the socket has a bit of overlap, where the two sides were welded together.

For the mortises you people are a-cutting ( Huge ones) maybe a look-see at Framer chisels? As in Timber Frame chisels. Might see what Ted Bennson uses….


----------



## shampeon

All my Pexto chisels are very good. Aka PS&W, aka Peck, Stow, & Wilcox.

I've got a 1.5" Butcher framing chisel, and a couple registered firmer chisels that work pretty well for cleaning up corners, like when I've used my router to make mortises. Given how hard it appears to be to sharpen a corner chisel, I'm just wondering what the best use is.


----------



## shipwright

Bandit, it looks like a ships bore drill.

As I know them ship's augers are barefoot, ie: no screw. The are designed that way to keep them going straight in end grain…..... I think…...


----------



## bandit571

Like this









I didn't quite have it sharpened up, and it needed a new piece of wood on it









And a piece of steel around the end.

There is a Van Camp 1-3/8" Framer Chisel as well. I think both were a dollar a piece. I have been using the framer as a small slick. It has a triangle shaped top that makes it hard to place in a honing guide. If one looks at the back of the chisel, one will see both a steel and a wrought iron construction. Seemms they welded a steel edge to it. It also has a slight curve along the back. I guess that is the way it was made.


----------



## theoldfart

Paul, thanks for the correction. Didn't know!


----------



## john2005

I like the addition Mauricio.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, looks good Maur. Now paint those cabinets….lol.


----------



## ToddJB

All - I would love to get the collective brain trust of the work bench thread on my impending glue up. All of my questions are listed here


----------



## CL810

I've been asked a few times if my end vise racks. Simple answer: it does. I made this adjustable block to offset the racking.


----------



## DanKrager

Bandit, there's a good chance that chisel with a curved back is bent. I bought one and the curve was pronounced, but it came out nice and straight with a bit of careful press work a little at a time. Even a big chisel can get bent if some gorilla pries the wood out instead of cutting it.
DanK


----------



## DanKrager

I would have called that long auger bit a bell hangers bit. Large timbers were used to hang cast bells and to secure them, very long bits were used to drill through pairs of large timbers. I don't know much else about this type of bit.
DanK


----------



## bandit571

From what I've heard, it seems the curve was made that way. Gives a little more "uumph!" when chopping out a mortise. From the handle towards the edge, the bow is in the back, if you lay the chisel down on it's back, it will sit there. Not quite a spoon curve. I guess when you were trying to pop out a few chip down in a mortise, that curve made for better leverage.

Couls also be a result of the steel being hammer-welded to the cast iron body. This is a laminate blade.


----------



## bandit571

One of the electrical contractors thought they would use that long bit to drill though some 12" BLOCK walls. When told they couldn't, he just threw it away. Love clean up details, find all sorts of goodies….

Seems to have a single flute, a screw to drive it along, and a hex end on the drill end. They could just chuck it up in their Dewalt drills, and go to town…


----------



## mochoa

Thanks. Fellas,

Red, how ugly do you think the whit cabinets are? I oroginally intended to paint them, still want to make wooden handles for it. I kind of like how bright the cabinets are, reflecting light and all.


----------



## Iguana

I don't think the white is bad. Distress 'em a bit if it bothers you, but they'll get beat up soon enough.


----------



## shampeon

Maur: I agree it doesn't look bad. But something a la Smitty's vintage milk paint would look transcendent, IMO.


----------



## richardwootton

Guys, we all know Smitty won't be happy unless those cabinets are painted a lovely terra cotta . . .


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nah Maur…the cabinets aren't too bad. Mostly givin you crap. I probably focus on aesthetics too much, but it helps in furniture making….I think?

If your on the fence about it, do what I do-put it off awhile. Work in your shop for awhile and see what you think. Some of my best shop "revelations" were because I didn't rush to a solution. I kicked around ideas til I found a good one.


----------



## donwilwol

Maur, your cabinets look good, but the white gives it a sterile, new look. It makes me expect to see a tv on it. A Smitty type paint job would just make it blend in more and remove the focus.

All in all, I like it. Could it be improved? Maybe?


----------



## chrisstef

I missed out on a vintage bench yesterday for $150. Very similar to Todd's except with a cast iron base. Im bummed. I hope some jack wagon doesn't turn it into a tv stand or try and flip it as a shabby chic kitchen island. That will piss me off. I couldn't sweet talk the seller over email. I really wanted to get him on the phone and give him the soft talk sob story of a young, broke woodworker interested in doing things the old way.


----------



## theoldfart

Stef, try harder! I tell 'el I'm an old guy trying to preserve the old ways. Works most of the time.


----------



## leopard887

looks good.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah the white doesn't bother me as much as I thought it would, or at all really. The plastic handles do bug me, I have to do something about that.

Not Smitty'esque for sure but Smitty has more natural light over his bench than I do so he can get away with darker shop furniture and floors.

Red, I think your right, I may make some handles for now and hold off on painting. Also I want to wait to see what other shop cabinets I come across, you never know, I could score a great deal on a bunch of Oak cabinets that might replace these and take care of some of the other needs in the shop.

Sucks on the missed score Stef! You'll get the next one. You deserve it.


----------



## terryR

Clayton, remind me, what brand of end vice did you install? Why do you think it racks? Chops much wider than the distance between support guides? Would a shorter chop work which was only flush with the front?

Curious since I'm hot for a tail vice now!

BTW, the molded edges of that chop are gorgeous. I'm sorry that I don't know the proper term for all your efforts.

Maur, please paint those cabinets.! Looks like an exam table with those sterile cabinets underneath! LOL. I vote for terra cotta, too!!!


----------



## ToddJB

Stef, I'm sorry for your loss.


----------



## chrisstef

In the grand scheme of things its probably best I didn't lug home a 500 lbs bench but damn it was sweet. Every time my phone beeped with an email I had little pitter patters only to be shot down. Ill find another one or maybe just maybe ill resume building the one ive started lol.


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, what about that bench build Stef? By some strange twist of fate I may actually finish something before you!


----------



## theoldfart

Not withstanding a kitchen of course !!!!


----------



## chrisstef

Its dead in the water for the time being. Life has gotten in the way. If I could get a buddy over, and a free 6 hour block, I could resaw the timbers for the top but ill probably wait. We think the house is going to hit the market some time next month so everything's gonna need to be squeaky clean for showings. Im not getting rid of the timber so it will happen post move, provided the house sells. It will become #1 priority once I reestablish a new shop space though.

For the time being im on small quick projects like saw refurbs.


----------



## merrill77

Maur - what is the lighting like in your shop? I'm in a basement without many windows. So I paint whatever I can pure white. It helps brighten up the shop with fewer shadows. I also find it helps me better judge how my finishing efforts will look in a non-basement-workshop room. I try to soften the white with wood trim on cabinet doors, etc, to make it less clinical.


----------



## theoldfart

Stef, I owe you so give a holler if a hand is needed. It's nice ride from here!


----------



## ToddJB

Stef, don't think of it as "not built" - think of it as a bench packaged up nicely for the impending move.


----------



## bandit571

Might need these two for that bench build









The normal one is 1-3/8" wide









The corner chisel is 7/8" per side…

Been using the VAN CAMP as a slick on tenons, haven't really had a need to use that Pexto corner chisel….yet.


----------



## CL810

*Terry*, It's a German made quick release vise without a brand name on it. Very well made, great action. The amount of racking is an issue of where the tightening occurs relative to where the board is being clamped. (I'm sure some of the engineers around here could point out the correct terminology.) In the pic below you can see a board close to the left guide rod that is 1-13/16" thick. The threaded rod is several inches to the right of the board. The chop at the right end is a full 1/4" closer to the bench. The width of the chop won't necessarily change the amount of the racking. It may make it look worse because the line of the angle is just extended. The issue is where the board being clamped is located versus the threaded rod.

If you install the vise to the left, closer to the front, you will lose the space for clamping a board vertically. I have about 4". I think you just have to accept some amount of racking and deal with it. I chose an "adjustable block" to deal with mine.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Clayton, I understand. I've seen quite a few of those adjustable block ideas…now I see why.

...I think…went to engineering school, but never gradiated.


----------



## widdle

hee is another option for the racking…i didnt want the extra holres at the time..but doesnt bother me know at all..Works good..


----------



## shampeon

Angled leg cuts are a lot simpler to execute with this OVB miter box.


----------



## Mustang67

Made from mostly reclaimed wood, except for the top. Keep meaning to add a tail vise. 
Side panels slide back so I can raise and lower the wheels.


----------



## Slyy

Cool bench Mustang. I really like the undertable storage you've made yourself there!


----------



## jmartel

I don't think this was posted in here yet:


----------



## mochoa

I originally wanted to paint the cabinets and the workbench base a la Paul Sellers. Cant find a pic right now for some reason.

Merrill, I have an 8' florescent light right above my French bench so the lighting is pretty good I think. That plus the lights on both of the garage door openers. The white does reflect a ton of light.

Widdle that's an awesome solution you got there.

Ian, sweet miter saw, I didn't know they had that kind of capacity.

Mustang, what a beautiful bench, the reclaimed wood ads so much beauty and character.


----------



## Boatman53

I just saw that bench Jmartel I'm just trying to figure out how to link my site with the chain hardware for sale without stepping on his toes so to speak. I don't mind that he copied everything, just wish he could remember where he saw it. LOL 
Jim


----------



## theoldfart

Jim, i'd just PM him.
Laminations all milled, just need to dowel and glue up. Final dimensions 7'2' long 20 9/16" wide 3 15/16" thick









Gaps are better than I originally thought


----------



## Boatman53

That is just what I did Kevin, about 5 minuites ago. I asked if he could throw a link up for me. We'll see if he does.
Jim


----------



## terryR

Widdle, I still remember your solution…you're a smart fellow! Love that bench top…Hey wasn't it YOU that was making the sweet wooden bench dogs a few months back? I thought I fav'd the link, but cannot find wood dogs I wanna copy.

Mustang, that's a great looking bench! Is that Osage on the top? goodness gracious…

Ian, that's some kinda HUGE miter saw you have there! Makes my Makita with power cord whimper!

Looks great, Kevin.


----------



## theoldfart

Ian, great idea to hook up the Dust Deputy to the mitre box! You need to do a blog. :0)


----------



## CL810

Kevin, that top is a beast!


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Andy, didn't quite get the 4" but close enough. Arms are tired from milling last night. Cheated and used tailed tools. A 12" joiner and a 26" planer.


----------



## ToddJB

Kevin, that bench is huge. Are you trying to compensate for something here?


----------



## theoldfart

Story of my life Todd. At this stage in the build I have the option to shorten it if need be. I'm waiting to finish the glue up, set it up on saw horses and test it out.
Thinking about adding two strips of cherry to get another 1 1/2" of width.


----------



## CL810

Cherry strips would look nice.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Terry, here a pic of the bench dogs Widdle made:









-

I know he used a router for the groove. I made a couple more using hand tools. Kinda like this:
http://roughwood.kennethwoodruff.com/2010/03/making-bench-dogs/


----------



## ToddJB

I'm going to be embarking on making square bench dogs really soon. How hard of wood should I be looking for here - does it matter?

Also, currently, my bench only has one line of square holes for the tail vise. How important is a second row for hold fasts?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Todd my 2nd row was really an afterthought, after I decided the first row was too far from the front edge.

Widdle's solution for end vise racking is pretty slick. I don't think I have the issue with racking others might because my end vise is just a little over 1/2 the depth of my bench. One solution I've used to stabilize on wide stuff is to use both dogs on the end vise. I'll post a pic.


----------



## BigRedKnothead




----------



## yuridichesky

Kevin, +1 to what others already said: you've got a monster! The good one


----------



## merrill77

Todd - Wood choice for the dogs depends on what is important to you. Really hard dogs may last longer, but are more likely to leave a mark in your workpiece. I prefer to use softer woods - to avoid any marks in my workpieces. I don't really care how long they last-I can make a bag full in a just few minutes because I use really simple ones that have a wider section on one end so they can't fall through the top.

FWIW, I use my holdfasts in square holes and they hold well. I have three lines of square dog holes covering my bench.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I've only used oak and walnut for dog. I'd be scared to use softer woods. I put a lot of torque on those buggers;-)


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks, Red.

Chris - First, nice bench. Second, that's for the input. Think I will try out a few designs for dogs. I like the sex appeal of them staying in the holes, but I like the utilitarian design of ones that just drop in.


----------



## mochoa

From a Schwarz blog:









I've seen this exact bench at an antique store once, in Alabama somewhere.

However the one I saw had wooden screws i think. I like how the base has hinges to adjust the height.


----------



## merrill77

I would have guessed those hinges were for portability - along with the knock-down (tusk) tenons.


----------



## woodcox

Can't imagine turning elementary kids loose with razor sharp tools nowadays. Would be some serious litigation goin down.


----------



## widdle

Nice work OF…Now wrap it up old man…
Terry, i started to type an explanation, but it was coming out over complicated..soo ill post any pics or answer any specifics..i was scratching my head a bit before i made them up, once you start you'll definetly get it..
here is a plan view..


----------



## theoldfart

Yahsuh Mr. widdle, right away Mr, widdle ;0)

I'll take a dozen of them wooden dawgs


----------



## widdle

Tell ya what boy..As soon as you start drilling your dog holes i ll make em up..


----------



## theoldfart

Deal


----------



## widdle

Here's a unnecessary jig that established length and bevel angle for the working end…


















And some kong foo


----------



## woodcox

I get top bunk!


----------



## yuridichesky

Woodcox, those are elephant's legs! Great!


----------



## CL810

Man there are a bunch of tables coming together! Looking good Woodcox.


----------



## terryR

Thanks for the tips on round dogs, guys! I turned some cherry last night for a few. Gonna play with the routah later today…plane that is…

Widdle, those are some funky pants, man. But your pics were worth a thousand words! I think I can handle it now.

Woodcox, those leg assemblies are sweet. Love massive, I do!


----------



## shampeon

Angled leg tenons.


----------



## widdle

that's some of that good fir there..


----------



## shampeon

BTW, looking good, woodcox. Can't wait to hear about the bunk bench.


----------



## woodcox

Just an exercise to scale of Red's joinery bench
I need to plan ahead better, some avoidable back peddling is disrupting my chi. Great feeling when a tool becomes predictable in your hands. I've been practicing my tenons two inches at a time. I've turned an eight foot 2×4 in to scrap in the last couple weeks by dropping the previous tenon at the shoulder and starting again. I even got good results in the last foot or so with no layout. My mortising has a long way to go yet. About one in four by hand I would deem bench worthy. Staying parallel and vertical down deep on large mortises has always plagued me. Next Tuesday I should sign for my first mortiser. It may delay my hand chopping skills My bench mortises are being done on the drill press and even with a mortiser, I will prolly stick to the press for the duration cuz it's working. 
Poll for the panel. Is it automatic to pare back your shoulders or do you wait for fit? I've just been doing it. 
Very clean there Ian.


----------



## widdle

Woodcox ..i would say i pare back a hair, usually because of pilot error, and the exposed edges would be my priority…if your gonna do all that work , may as well be tight..


----------



## theoldfart

Last two pieces (cherry) for the top are done,


















A client loaned me a biscuit joiner so next up the final glue up. Also questions Where and how many?

I'm thinking midway between the top and bottom and maybe four along the length.


----------



## ToddJB

Awesome Kev! And Norm would be proud of your biscuit usage.


----------



## john2005

Looking strong Kevin! That'll be awesome looking when done.


----------



## merrill77

I'm assuming you are using them only for alignment purposes and you already have the top pretty well jointed when dry fit. I'd put one in the middle and one near each end. Near the bottom surface - to keep away from future flattening efforts.


----------



## theoldfart

Merrill, they're for alignment only. Everything has been jointed and planed for a tight and smooth fit. The top is 4" and i've set the biscuit to 2".


----------



## Slyy

Kevin, that is really coming along, still can't wait to see it finished!

Ian those tenons are looking sweet!

Woodcox has some a BIG legs!


----------



## widdle

Nice O F.. That tops a beast..


----------



## CL810

*Kevin* ,2" depth is perfect and 4 sounds good to me as well.


----------



## shampeon

One mortise down.


----------



## theoldfart

Ian, I'm having trouble visualizing where the angled tenon is. The leg looks at right angles to me. Old eyes maybe?


----------



## shampeon

Kevin: the back legs will be angled. The front ones are straight.

See, e.g. Mauricio's beautiful splayed-leg Roubo:
http://lumberjocks.com/mochoa/blog/series/4912


----------



## mochoa

Kevin, that bench is going to be SWEET!

Ian, fantastic hand work buddy, those tenons are a thing of beauty!
And, thanks for the shout out! Splayed leg benches of the world UNITE and form VOLTRON!!! LOL


----------



## Mosquito

So… with the new bench in the new shop, and now on a wood floor instead of carpet… the bench likes to slide around more. (oak end grain on oak flooring). Anyone have any tricks or tips for stopping it from sliding around while I use it? Otherwise I'm thinking I might just try some drawer liner to start with.


----------



## woodcox

On the left from rockler, on the right from the hardware store. I haven't decided which yet.


----------



## woodcox

I mentioned backpedaling, to the left of the left leg I've only got 11" to the end of the front apron. Room for vise underneath but means a little face vise chop. Thinking of removing the 3/4 cap and replace it with that 12/4 maple sitting on the bench. Will give room for about an 18" chop, which I have on my temp bench and has been sufficient so far. I'm thinking of lapping the front legs flush with apron and stub tenoned into the top. Also thinking of using a couple lags from the inside of the legs though into the apron from the back. I forgot proper prior planning. Has been a theme through out my bench dreams.









I don't reccomend wingin a bench build. It's seriously stressful,but I can guarantee it WILL be solid and my own. I forgot functionalI pray.


----------



## shampeon

Mos: Here's maybe a dumb idea, but maybe brilliant? I dunno. Dust the bottom of the legs with spray adhesive then wait until it's just grippy.

I should also point out that Kevin's top looks fan-fricking-tastic, and he's clearly a man of refined taste by combining oak and cherry.


----------



## widdle

Probably the wrong answer Mos. But i will throw in big canvass sandbags draped over the stretchers for weight..


----------



## bandit571

Add a layer of cork to the bottom of the legs???


----------



## Tugboater78

uhhhgg just went through 3 mnths of posts… my benchtop is still stickered/stacked in the shop, as it has been for over 6 months. The weather is getting better so maybe some glueups incoming.


----------



## theoldfart

Ian, thanks . Now I get it. Also thank you for the compliment.
Woodcox, I'm just the opposite. Spent about two years reading and watching, kinda anal-retentive I guess.
Mos, I'm with Bandit on the cork idea.
Tug, you'l get there. You still have a lot less time into it than I have.


----------



## mochoa

Mos, get some jigsaws mats for the whole area and set the bench on top. I think that's what Brandon W did. It also protects the floor.


----------



## Mosquito

I might try cork first, as I have a few sheets left over from the chalk cork board combo. Then shelf liner before I buy anything else… Some good ideas guys, thanks!


----------



## merrill77

Mos - I roughed up the bottom of my legs with 60g sandpaper. It's on a wood floor and is difficult to move. Doesn't budge when planing. I think the current weight is 170lbs (not done yet). The feet have typical surface area - the fronts are 3×4.5 and the rear are 3×6.


----------



## Mosquito

hmm, mine are 2.5×2.5 except the leg vise leg, which is 2.5×5.5. I'm not certain if I'd have enough surface area for that to work. But, also worth a try, especially if I end up gluing something to it, I'll probably want to anyway


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I say just build a bigger, heavier bench. Problem solved.


----------



## theoldfart

Ok another question for the experienced bench builders. 
Bisciutting is done


















I have five sections so start the glue up in the middle or from the front/back edge?
Last question, I promise!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I went from back to front. Not sure of my rational. Just tried to keep it flush and square each step.


----------



## Mosquito

lol I'd like to build a bigger heavier bench, but unfortunately the amount of space I've got to work with is actually less than when I was in my apartment :-(


----------



## woodcox

Lil vertigo this AM to see how it will be. Left,right and back rails are next.


----------



## theoldfart

So the glue up begins









And why is it on floor you may ask









Ever try and catch a wet glued 4"x8"x7'6" slab of red oak covered in clamps? Easy peezy, NOT!

must be heavier than I thought









We WILL stay close to the floor for the rest of the flu up :0)


----------



## john2005

Be careful there ancient flatulus. Good way to loose a limb.

How are y'all dealing with uneven concrete floors. At first I thought it was my build, but as I move it around it either quits rocking or rocks the other way. Shoulda poured it in the ground like y'all suggested.


----------



## jmartel

OF, you should make your own supports. They would hold a lot more than that little thing. You can make them adjustable, and put some pvc pipe cut in half on top so it slides easy.


----------



## theoldfart

John, I expect to have trouble with the floor. I have a good supply of cedar shingles for shims.
JMart, I have a stronger set I built. They are short so only wanted the first glue up high. The rest will be no them.


----------



## richardwootton

TOF, I dropped a big old red oak 4×4 post aim my toe from bench height and that damn thing took the skin off through my boot! Be careful, you gotta keep that antique gas pass in action.


----------



## john2005

Shims a good idea. I may even have a scrap that would work from when I was squaring up the walnut.


----------



## richardwootton

Mos, you ought to just chop out some big arse mortises into that wood floor. That should fix the sliding problem, and it won't cost you anything but your security deposit!


----------



## theoldfart

Richard the challenge wasn't avoiding dropping it, it was keeping the tall clamps from ripping out my lighting! My cellar joists are not very high. If I needed to drop it in the interest of self preservation I most surely would have.


----------



## richardwootton

I see I see, are those some schwarz saw horses I spy in the background?


----------



## theoldfart

Yup, I still need to make some risers for them. It would make them more versatile as opposed to being just saw horses.


----------



## widdle

Check out Of..get'n er done..hi octane brother..


----------



## theoldfart

Widdle, Gas being the operative term of course.

Imbibing a bit right now. 









Letting things cure, and need to brace the work. The tops getting seriously heavy and standing on edge needs to be addressed.. Update tomorrow, film at 11!

Well pics maybe, don't know how to video for here.


----------



## john2005

Cant wait to see it Kevin.

Most disappointing part of my build so far? Spend a lot of time assembling a top, then punch a bunch of holes in it. Not gonna lie. The whole experience made me a little nervous.


----------



## theoldfart

Looks quite good John. I'm sure I won't be any less nervous defiling a perfectly good slab!


----------



## terryR

Damn Kevin, that looks very heavy! You got a shop crane to lift the final top?

I built my leg assemblies first, attached them with those massive English aprons, THEN glued the top to the base 5 or 6 sticks at a time. I KNEW I couldn't lift the final top alone, and have no friends nearby. 

John, the drilling of dog holes also scared me…Heck I had just spent 3 hours flattening it with a no.7! Unfortunately, some of my dog holes are spaced 1/8" away from where I wish they were…While drilling I didn't see the sense in perfect layout, but now that I want shop made planing stops to fit in multiple locations, that 1/8" is a problem (using 2 bench dogs on some stops).

Mos, that's a bummer about your bench moving in the new shop. Hopefully cork, rubber, or double-sided tape will help?  Can ya push it against the back wall, and add supports to the wall just outside your legs? Hope you have a larger shop now that isn't up 3 flights of stairs in the least!

Yeah, I have to shim my 400 pound bench on the 60 year old concrete floor to get it level. So far, I've only found ONE completely flat spot in my shop…and that's directly in front of the doors. LOL. The Grizzly tablesaw, bandsaw, disc sanders, jointer, etc…all on osage and bubinga shims!


----------



## john2005

I hear ya Terry on the layout. I probably over analyzed it and have spent the last couple weeks kicking around what I would do when I got here. I ended up following Schwarzs plan in the blue book (more or less).

Kevin, I had planned on boring all the holes with a brace and bit, but decided I wasn't comfortable with that to get them square. So I started with a 3/4" uncut bit I got last year before I found the Russell Jennings. I clamped the router, then plunged as deep as poss (approx 2"), then finished up with the brace since a perpendicular hole had been established. Probably not as satisfying as doing it all the way by hand, but the results were perfect.


----------



## Mosquito

I could push the bench against the wall, but I usually like having the bench further away from the wall, especially depending on what it is I'm working on (stock size). Shop isn't any bigger, unfortunately, storage space is smaller, and there's less usable wall space for things like the plane till, sharpening table, etc. Oh well, I'm sure I can make it work. But yes, now I'm only up 3 stairs, instead of on 3rd floor lol (and I have my own garage that I can use power tools in, should I choose)


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, I can barely lift it on one end. A buddy is coming over Tuesday and we are taking to my school for one last pass through the 26" planer.

John I made a jig for my bit brace to bore the dog holes. Once the first one is drilled then a dog fits in to space for the second one and so on.


----------



## theoldfart

One more section to go and I HATE cleaning up squeeze out, especially 7' on each side! Five rounds of that and I've started thinking what about a bunch of nails. :0)


----------



## CL810

John, maybe I've missed a post(s) of yours, but what's left? Finish, vises?


----------



## woodcox

^and a bondo!


----------



## theoldfart

Last section done. Whew!









Leg mortises next.


----------



## donwilwol

jeez, that even looks heavy from here!


----------



## theoldfart

Vise screw Shipping Monday so gotta get the chop glued up as well.


----------



## theoldfart

Don it is. :0) Gonna have to borrow Reds 'roids!


----------



## shampeon

That'll do nicely.









Nice work, Kevin.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Man, everybody breaking my stones about a clean shop. Kev's afraid of a little glue drippage. Come on Kev…..it's a woodshop!
And I'm fresh outta roids. You borrow these guns though








-
Lookin' good Ian. I think your workmate is quivering in that pic.


----------



## CL810

Man Ian, you are throwing it down!


----------



## TobiasZA

Looking at that vice screw kit from Lake Erie Toolworks. A few years ago when I built my bench I made all three vices from wood. I bought a Beall Big Thread kit. It was a cinch to make them and an immense amount of fun. The kit runs at about half the price of buying ready made. Since then I have used it to make up all sorts of presses and jigs n' things.


----------



## bandit571

Been using the "Cheap Bench so much lately, I had to plane a spot FLAT on it, to do a bit of sharpening at the bench









Well, at least flat enough that a 12×12 floor tile would sit flat on the bench. Hard to sharpen when the tile keeps a-rocking. There was a big old knot right there, or…was. It is now sitting a little lower, and not being a speed bump. Will be stretching out some sandind belts, have a sole to flatten. Have to take the DE6c across the top in the area…









THIS is the intended victim, sitting near that knot. It will soon find out WHY this is called the Dungeon Shop ( of Horrors?))


----------



## richardwootton

Tobias, do you have any pictures of the screws you've made? I'd like to see how the threads turned out.


----------



## theoldfart

Ian, pretty tight squeeze on that end vise. That angled leg looks perfect.

Tobias, I thought about a screw box but decided to "out source" that phase! Nick uses a CNC to cut the screws and nuts and you get a finer finish and tighter tolerances.


----------



## woodcox

Ian, what are your plans for a vise on the front? Why are your legs not flush with the front? Reason I ask is I am considering not flushing mine to the apron. I am using a face vise and doubt I would ever want a leg vise. My apron is almost seven inches tall and not seeing the need for flush surface area below it. Not ideal but I figure I can laminate the leg flush below the apron later if need be. All of this maybe heresy to the pious.


----------



## theoldfart

Why didn't I think of this?


----------



## shampeon

Thanks, Kevin. I did a quick check to confirm the spacing before mortising for the the angled leg, but it still felt good to see if for real. And strictly speaking, $75 isn't that bad for the chop & hardware, but I still want to scream when I see all these Pinterest shaby chic abominations. Just search on "milk paint" sometime to see gorgeous old antique furniture buried in a layer of fax-distressed paint, hiding the beautiful wood underneath.

woodcox: I'm basically undecided about the front vise. When I started my bench, I was all set to use a face vise (a Columbian quick release). But I'm increasingly seduced by a leg vise. If I do go with a leg vise, I'll laminate a piece of 8/4 to both front legs, as they are currently flush with the back of the apron, which is 8/4 oak. I guess I better decide pretty fast here, huh?

The advantage, as I see it, to having the legs back from the apron in a non-leg vice bench is that it gives more room for your feet and toes when you're working on something.


----------



## richardwootton

Leg vise Ian, leg vise! I don't have one yet, or a real bench completed for that matter, but boy oh boy do I want one! Every time I see a splayed leg bench I want to give it a shot. I just can't make up mind about Moravian style or French a la Mauricio.

Kevin, how much is that giant bench top weighing in at?


----------



## theoldfart

Richard, I haven't weighed it. Just three sections broke a Rigid stand rated at 200#'s .


----------



## woodcox

My rail mortises are 75% done and the side rails are awaiting position decision. I gotta quit dimensioning late at night when I'm dozing. My DP table has been set for repeat and today I found my layout lines off. One leg got lost in mix the other night while milling and ended up an eighth out of square and too wide. Luckily the front rail got mortised on the square side.


----------



## theoldfart

OK glue up done.









Now I've got to get this mutha out of the cellar, into the truck, off to the shop , and then back home.


----------



## widdle

the joinery from sawhorse to to bench looks sketchy..


----------



## CL810

Superglue.


----------



## widdle

And a #10 biscuit..We're good..


----------



## john2005

Na, you didn't miss anything Clayton. Just not a big poster. Got some leather on the chops today and hopefully be finishing by next sat. Home strech now boys.

Looking solid OF and Ian. Some good work boys


----------



## john2005

And Kevin, I think it's supposed to lay the other way….or are you breaking the mold.


----------



## woodcox

Final rail clamped. Length determined. Thunder thighs shall NOT be flush to my apron!








Massive Kevin! Gonna be trip feeding that slab. Planer has it work cut out.


----------



## TobiasZA

To OF…Good point. although tight tolerances on wood to wood threads can be a seasonal pain.


----------



## TobiasZA

Hi Richard.
I made the screws out of A grade maple and they have held up to years of work and "abuse".


----------



## richardwootton

Thanks Tobias, those still look great, and much better than I actually imagined. I know Mos from here on LJs also threaded his, and as far as I'm aware, they're working well. The Lake Erie screws just so damn sweet!


----------



## TobiasZA

Hi Richard. At the time I also looked at prefab units…... but then I could not have said that I built the entire bench myself haha. I also figured that I could use the taps to make other things. So far have built a few adjustable stools with a centre thread and they work beautifully. I found the Beall device very easy to set up and repeatability wasn't an issue. I have no discernable racking and am still amazed at the force one can apply with these threads. I learned very quickly that fruitwoods are the only stock to use. I tried a couple out of "Rhodesian Teak" (Not actually a Tectona species at all…... and ended up with a rather fibrous mess instead of a screw! I give the screws an annual gunk clean and apply fresh old fashioned floor polish. Each screw has a thick leather washer behind the head.
Have a great day
Tobias


----------



## shampeon

Hey, look at that. It's looking like a piece of actual furniture now.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Back to pimp status.


----------



## JayT

OF & Shamp, you guys are rockin' the bench builds. Can't wait to see final results. Kevin, how many chiropractor visits are you going to have just from moving that huge mass of benchtop around?


----------



## theoldfart

JayT No chiropractor, but maybe a professional dropus-the-stonus might help :0) We'll see if ScottyB has some insight.

Ian, some serious precision going on in there. Be careful not to trip on that mighty nice mitrebox!


----------



## Slyy

Good lord Shamp, the bench all spread eagle is a thing of beauty!!! Just beckoning at you.
Kevin, your too looks a like one giant behemoth, it's go a look good when all is said and done!

Question for the panel. Don't know much about then but have a cabinet shop selling a few odds and ends near me, some hand tools etc (already picked up a no 80 scraper and drawknife from them).
I noticed they had some (what I think are) Wilton vises. Asking $25 a piece. Wondering if anyone likes these, thinks it's a good deal and/or is currently using one. Seemed like it might make a good wagon vise with bench dogs?


----------



## shampeon

Thanks, Jake. Those Wilton vises are very solid, and if they are quick-release vises, they're worth probably double what they're selling them for. But if they have a quick-release, I don't know if they'd be adaptable for a wagon vise, since the QR nut needs a housing and space to drop away.


----------



## richardwootton

I don't know much about those Jake, but it couldn't hurt to pick one up for that price.


----------



## theoldfart

Jake, my current face vise is a Wilton but not QR. They are an excellent vise.


----------



## shampeon

Pimp status: confirmed


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Strong work in the hotel hallway shop. Vocational proximity.

Kev- did I miss something? Why's your benchtop need to go to the shop?


----------



## lateralus819

******************** sly ill take one for $25!


----------



## richardwootton

Bad ass shamp!


----------



## richardwootton

And slyy, if you pick up a few of those, I'll buy one off of you…


----------



## widdle

i used an older wilton for an end vise…Works good..


----------



## shampeon

Red, it's why I need to work with hand tools. The guests get mad when I fire up the benchtop planer.


----------



## CL810

+1 on Bad Ass Shamp throwing it doooowwwwwn!!


----------



## theoldfart

Red, one last pass on the planer


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Tisk, tisk, Kev. That's what heft and hubris is for;-)


----------



## Mosquito

So, an update on the bench sliding issue…

While digging through the dreaded "Misc shop stuff" tote, I remembered (read: found) some moose leather I had gotten from a fellow LJ who I spent a good hour or two chatting with after they bought some bit braces. He had a whole bag of scraps he picked up and sent me home with a decent sized piece. Used contact cement to stick it to the legs of the bench, and even though I only had enough contact cement for the 3 smaller legs, it's still perfectly usable, until I get a chance to pick up some more contact cement.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, plenty of opportunity for Big Eight to do his thang. After legs, vises and so on a final flattening will be performed. BTW I cut ALL mortises by hand as well as most tenons and a majority of rippin' and cross cuttin', tisk tisk, snicker………….


----------



## mochoa

Sweet work Ian! How did you lay out the cut to make the legs even.

Leave it with no stretchers and call it a Roman style bench. ;-)


----------



## shampeon

I measured from the bench top up to the angled leg, then made a mark at 35". Then I used my sliding square to make a 15 degree line parallel to the end through that mark.

I made sure the straight leg was 90 degrees to the table, then took a large framing square and matched it to the line on the angled leg. Then drew a line on the straight leg, and double checked it was square to the leg and 35" from the bench top on the other side.

After that I used the miter box to make the cuts. Once these legs were cut, I used them as masters for the other legs.


----------



## woodcox

It dry fits.








Yesterday I was at HD getting dowels for drawboring and past the clearance isle to find the last four cabinet masters I kind of hid over a week ago. At $34 each I took the rest of them.


----------



## Pezking7p

It dry fits.

TWSS


----------



## theoldfart

Oh my !!!!


----------



## terryR

+10 on BadAss Shamp. That is going to a sweet bench!

Kevin, how much they charge ya to run that massive bench top through a real planer? I completely agree on using heft and hubris, but after watching you rip that 6 foot stock, my shoulders were sore! 

Mos, if you ever need scraps of moose hide, lemme know! I buy it in bulk, and cut it to 2×4" to use in my hand for protection while chipping stone. Moose parts rock! LOL. Also got too much steer hide, pig hide, and deer rawhide in the shop for what I'm building these days. Jeez, and another pig gets harvested this coming weekend…

...AFTER I complete the butchering bench…pressure treated 2×6's for legs and stretchers, and ply top…gotta protect the wife's new Damascus knife!


----------



## Mosquito

Good to know Terry


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, no charge on the planer. I attend furniture classes there.


----------



## terryR

^sweet deal, Kevin.

Yeah, I'm jealous of you city guys with furniture making classes and swap meets.


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, don't cry. We don't get to "harvest" hogs .

Have you thought about making bodgers mitts? Seems you have lots of hides.


----------



## terryR

Had to look up bodgers mitt…looks like a useful tool! Another one on the bucket list…although I might be able to take my bowyer's glove, and…

Thanks, Aged Flatus.


----------



## richardwootton

Woodcox that base is freaking massive! Did you use SYP?


----------



## woodcox

Rich, legs are from and old Douglas fir 5×5 beam full of knots,checks and heart. Not an ideal specimen but it was free to me for an outdoor project that is going another direction. Rails are new laminated dfir 2×6 to get 12/4 thickness. I haven't seen syp here in the west. My top is about 60×30 and vise layout made my leg assembly almost square. I have one or three more upper rails to make yet. Haven't decided on an attachment method for the bench top yet. Top of the legs will get one inch stub tenons though.


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, bowyer = archery?


----------



## richardwootton

Nice, I've got some reclaimed 4×4s that I've thought about using on my bench, but I'm thinking I would want legs beefier than 3.5 inches square after milling.


----------



## shampeon

Leg vise hardware purchased. I'm going with the Criss Cross from Benchcrafted, but will use a Lee Valley end vise modified to use a cast iron handwheel. The Benchcrafted vise is lovely, but a little too rich for me right now.


----------



## theoldfart

Bench crafted regular or retro?


----------



## shampeon

Retro.


----------



## theoldfart

Have to compare notes when wer'e done


----------



## theoldfart

OK, BRK must've sacrificed some of Terry's chickens and put a hex on me. My buddy and I could not get the top slab up my hatchway stairs. ;o)

So we be sharpenin' The Big Red 8. know what i'm doing this weekend!

I've calculated the weight and using approximately 50 lbs per cubic foot it comes in at about 250 lbs. It seemed a lot heavier than that!


----------



## richardwootton

TOF, you'll Icing your shoulders after you get done flattening that bench top!


----------



## theoldfart

Richard, I'm sore from just trying to get the thing up a steep flight stairs! Then we had to back up and put it back in the shop. I owe my friend big time.


----------



## richardwootton

Beer, plenty of beer. If I was closer, I'd swing by and try and give you a hand…

Edit: mainly for the beer.


----------



## widdle

Too bad O f..i was with ya on the smarter not harder..I bet that bench is pretty flat coming out of your glue up..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Lo siento Kev. If I lived a little closer I would have tucked it under one arm and carried it out for you. Oh wait, I forgot…. I'm a midget. I mean, a dwarf ….with a 6'9" wingspan.


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks for the uplifting thoughts guys..
Widdle its off by about 1/32" to 1/16" in one spot.


----------



## widdle

i think thats called a butthair..Perfect…next..


----------



## woodcox

Does that mean the bench is a permanent fixture of the house Kevin?


----------



## john2005

Don't boatbuilders build in the basement then tear down the house to get is out? I just don't think you are trying hard enough OF! Just sayin. -


----------



## Airframer

Sounds like a perfectly reasonable excuse to rent a backhoe and start digging a secondary exit…. just sayin'


----------



## john2005

See? ^Eric gets it. BIG BOY TOYS.


----------



## Iguana

Started my bench build today. #smackdown, here I come!

Getting real tired of the current bench, just a solid core door on an old desk. The thing has very limited workholding - just a planing stop at one end. If I want to clamp anything, I use a quick-release hand clamp. It racks about 3 inches under moderate planing.









The height, however, is pretty good. As is the width. And another foot longer would be nice. So that helped in establishing the parameters around a new bench.

The wood has been sitting around for a while and the hardware even longer. But today was the day to start making sawdust. I'm going to try to put in a hour or two on it every day and get it done inside a month.

When I left the shop today, one leg was sitting on my table in clamps:









Blog entry at http://lumberjocks.com/Iguana/blog/40476


----------



## CL810

Perfect timing Mark. Several builds are coming to conclusion so we needed some fresh meat! ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Started thinking about building a gantry crane but I think we'll just Galloot it.


----------



## terryR

Just outta control on this thread…

Kevin, you forgot to add the weight of the glue…that's way too much mass for 2 ol' timers to muscle UP stairs! I like the backhoe option…you can add windows for your shop after…yeah, bowyer = archery. I have no archery skills whatsoever, but I love making bows and arrows!

Mark, how much would you take for the solid door and gorgeous desk?

And youz guyz , PLEASE stop posting photos of your bench up-side down…really messing with my brain! LOL! Oh, unless there's a vintage level across the top of the bottom of the legs, and no wedges in sight.


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, we need to talk about bows. I had a D&H Super D my father-in-law accidentally closed in a trunk lid.

BTW what old timers are speaking about? BOY!


----------



## theoldfart

John, 'bout time to post that masterpiece of a bench.


----------



## JayT

Mark, you are due for an upgrade! It's actually kind of amazing you can turn out the quality of projects I've seen you post while working on a bench that racks so much and has no work holding capacity.

+1 on the backhoe, OF. We want a full blog with video.


----------



## theoldfart

workin' on it.


----------



## terryR

Yeah, Kevin, would love to sit around and talk bows! All mine are Native-inspired one pieces. Plain Osage or Hickory lumber backed with deer sinew and covered with rattlesnake. Horse hair or buffalo horn decorations. Old school. I haven't completed one since joining LJ's…


----------



## john2005

+1 on back-hoe blog/vid

Hoping to put a finish on the bench this weekend, then come the glory shots….


----------



## theoldfart

Introducing the hybrid galoot









seven feet









Flat and no wind


----------



## BigRedKnothead

And that's how it's done son…..I mean, my senior.

Props if you can do up the ends with hand tools. I busted out the routahhhh.


----------



## widdle

OF with the sidewinder…That bench is gonna come together quick..Good man, your gonna be stoked..


----------



## Pezking7p

OF, you got that thing flattened quick!

Anyone with a leg vise wish they had a face vise instead? I was planning to make my bench with a leg vise and a wagon vise, but I'm concerned about being able to clamp a board for dovetailing or similar work. Thoughts? Should I just make the bench and let God sort it out?


----------



## AnthonyReed

Outstanding Kevin!!!

Right on.


----------



## chrisstef

OF - Mammoth, gargantuan, massive, hugenormous, friggin awesome buddy.


----------



## shampeon

Kevin: Strong, strong work. Heft and hubris wins, again.


----------



## bandit571

Had to flatten a part of the bench top today, getting prepped for some "LAHB" work. A class on dovetails, mind you. So, while getting four test pieces to size









Took the #6c across the top, just to level things out a bit. Seemed to be a bit high in the middle, about like the word….oHIo???

Even used an old handsaw, just to cut things square ( I hope)









May not be a Wally Original, but it is comfy on the hands.


----------



## widdle

pez..Im not sure what is considered a face vise, and have never worked on a shoulder vise…but for kicks, this bench is 2 3/4 " +-, with a 5 1/4 " apron( just the way it ended up ).A small woodriver vise mounted to the underside if the bench..Soo there is only 3 1/2" +- to the hardware..


----------



## widdle

Edit..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pez- that's why I used a face vise….as my end vise;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks guys, why does my shoulder and arms hurt?


----------



## widdle

Probably from typing oldman..Get busy..


----------



## AnthonyReed

HAHAH…


----------



## theoldfart

night off, going to a concert. will have adult beverages and relax.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'm starting to feel bad for my retired neighbors who got recruited to help move around my bench.

I still can't believe I had all that weight on those plastic saw horses.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, your lucky
I broke one of my Rigid stands and almost crippled my buddy trying to move the top.


----------



## Pezking7p

Widdle, that's what I call a "face vise". I have no idea where I picked up that term.

Red, you ever clamp anything on the side of your leg vise and try to cut dovetails, etc? I mean, before you got hoity toity and made a joinery bench with a moxon vise. I guess I like the looks of the wagon vise, and I don't want to deal with racking issues associated with putting off center dog on an end vise.


----------



## theoldfart

Pez, do you really think you'll use that much force on the end vise? Usually it's used to just hold work while you flatten or use a moulding plane.


----------



## woodcox

I've been doing some glue ups before going in for the night. Unclamping in the AM so I can do tenons at work. I'm careful with my lines for final fitting at home in the eves. Only way I can keep up with the retired folksaround here. 









My new toy. Needs tuning up a bit but it works. Going to stick with the DP for the bench build until I get time on that machine.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Same mortiser I've got. Congrats.

Pez- I wasn't doing dovetails back then. But I think a leg vise would work better for dovetails than a face vise. All the bars are in the way to hold boards vertical on a face vise.


----------



## woodcox

I highly recommend getting away with as much personal stuff on the clock as possible. FRA won't mind a moxon up in cab with ya Red.


----------



## CL810

Pez, the set up that Red has in the pic above will work. But if you do much in the way of hand joinery and your bench is around 34" you will eventually build a Moxon bench, or a separate joinery bench, to bring the work higher. So I guess I'm saying that the short answer is the leg vise will work, but the issue will be short lived.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good call Woodcox. I do know a conductor who whittles and carves on the train. Gotta find something within their silly rules. While were stopped at a red light for hours, I'm not allowed to read a book or the newspaper. Of course not electronics. But I am allowed to take a nap. Seriously in the rules….lol.

Never seen anything about a moxon in there though;-)


----------



## CL810

*Kevin* - major man skills display! Glad everything worked out with no injuries. Gave you a chance to innovate.


----------



## Airframer

Red - Sounds like a Milkman's bench is in order… you could rename it the Railman's Bench


----------



## Pezking7p

Thanks for the input, guys. I completely forgot about the deadman. Trying to finish all the tool refurbs I'm working on and them start on mah bench.


----------



## theoldfart

You kids see this


----------



## Airframer

Pez- Don't forget about the venerable power of the Moxon ;-)










Go for a leg vise.. you will love it.


----------



## theoldfart

Ah, the old saw till in a Moxon pic. Still awesome work.


----------



## jmartel

I really like the leg vise. You have a much greater depth before you run into hardware. In my case I think it's 9 or 10". Plus, you can offset it and have the full depth to the floor if needed.


----------



## Airframer

Yep, and eventually I will get back to work on it…. eventually. Think of me as the Stef of the tool cabinet world


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, don't worry about it. You need to be about a year out or more before you can join the Stef club


----------



## richardwootton

I'm a couple months in and if I keep this pace Stef will beat me to the Bondo!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Man, I've been kicking around adding a tool till to the back of my roubo. I think Artagain might have convinced me:


----------



## richardwootton

That is pretty darn sweet! Red, did you put a saw till on your saw bench?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That's not my bench. That's the one by Artagain that OF referenced above. I like the whole bench, but I really like that tool till on the backside.


----------



## richardwootton

I knew it wasn't yours, I was just agreeing with you that the tool till is a good idea.


----------



## Slyy

Man, blowing the smackdown up today! 70+ posts since I last checked in!
Kevin that is some damn fine work!!! That is a hell of a slab!

Mark, awesome to see you get the build started, it'll be fun watching it take shape.
Appreciate the door and desk workbench combo, not I've done much with it yet (just practicing so far) but I've just used f-clamps and the table saw top.

Not much of a bench build beginning yet, but did go and grab one of the wilton vises. Grabbed the last one and this one had no captive bearing/nut. I figured for $20 it's still a steal and maybe I can find a replacement or have someone make one (any ideas would be appreciated).









A ruobo is not the first bench I'm gonna attempt to build, so on a simpler design, figure a face vise would work pretty well.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh shoot Richard, I read that wrong. I don't have any till on my as of yet. But I do have a problem with tools rolling off my bench

Schwarz put on one his latest bench. Darn Schwarzy…


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## widdle

I've been thinkin about a tool well or like you have pictured Red..Thought mabye removable ..sliding dovetail thing…A tail shape rip attached to the bench and then shelf or racks whatever slide along that…


----------



## widdle

what ?


----------



## richardwootton

Exactly.


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## richardwootton

That damn schwarz must have a a friggin room dedicated to the benches he's built!


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## Slyy

Those some forged nails in his as well? Dang sexy


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## bandit571

Have patio, will build









6 hour build. Getting a workout, lately









Even if this is all the room I have to work in….


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## widdle

those nail heads are just hiding his screws..Not a schwartz fan..


----------



## Slyy

Nice work bandito.

Forgot to add picture of the under side of that vice think the capture nut has changed styles a couple times. Not exactly sure what this one is supposed to look like.








I assume it's one inch diameter and acme threads?


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## Iguana

Terry, I'm keeping the door. Turning it into an assembly table or something. As for the desk, it wouldn't be worth picking up even if you lived next door. A cheap 70s knock off of something older. It only looks good in a fuzzy picture.

Jay, necessity is a mother. That door/desk was an upgrade 

I managed to get the other 3 legs glued up today. I won't bother to blog it because, well, one leg in clamps pretty much looks like another.

Today's work brought to you by the letters T & B and the number III.









I changed my glue application technique back to my usual, which results in a much more even glue application and much less mess.









The fourth leg in clamps, and the other 3 standing in the background:


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## Iguana

So, why build a bench in a particular way with a particular type of lumber and a particular set of hardware? Someone brought up that issue in my blog, but I thought I'd raise it here as a point for discussion.

I think we can all agree that a bench has to be utilitarian. That is, it is intended to be used to serve a particular function, namely, to aid oneself to accomplish woodworking tasks. Workholding and support, primarily. But we all work in somewhat different ways, so we get to build somewhat different benches to help us accomplish that. You like different vises than I do or you emphasize a feature that I omit altogether. As long as your bench helps you work and mine helps me. After all, we don't all drive black Fords.

Once the utile requirements have been fulfilled, what then? At one point, I got by with a quarter sheet of melamine clamped to a couple sawhorses and was able to work done. A solid core door on a desk was a big upgrade from that, but it didn't mean my output was any better. A bit faster, perhaps. And the bench I'm building now is a quantum step up. It will certainly add to my working efficiency, although it may not add significantly to my capability.

I've chosen to make what most would consider a luxury bench. Top notch hardware and a lot of cabinet-grade wood. And from what I've seen of the projects posted, a good many of you have gone down the same path. Why? Why expend time and money to accomplish something far beyond merely satisfying utilitarian needs?

The (obvious) answer is that there are other factors that we take into consideration. And those factors, I think, make for a more interesting discussion than, say, "twin vs. single screw vise". Although that discussion is a good one.

I built my bench to serve a few needs:
a) the utility function. See above.
b) stand up to abuse. This might be a subset of (a), but worth noting.
c) test and refine my skill set. There's a couple things in my bench that I haven't done before
d) impress clients. It is the first thing they will seen when they walk though my door. Even if the bench doesn't impress them as a furniture piece, the sheer mass should 
e) leave a legacy. I want this bench to be too much for someone to throw it away. Ideally, one of my descendants will end up using it after I am done with it. If not, some deserving woodworker. Or even as a table in some trendy kitchen. But it will merit serious consideration and it will have a home.

Ok, the last one is a bit of wishful thinking  Lord willing and the creek don't rise, I'll get 40 years use out of it. After that, I probably won't care.

Why is your bench the way it is?


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## shampeon

Jake: I happen to have an extra QR nut for a Wilton vise. I bought it to try on one of my Columbian vises that is missing its QR nut, but it doesn't work. You're welcome to it. PM me your address.


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## shampeon

Red: I think I'm going to add a french cleat to the back of my bench so I can transfer my chisel racks to and from the wall as needed.


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## woodcox

^chuch! 
Mine is my own because of current skill set, cost(is what I tell myself albeit I've spent more more in tools that could have funded some nice lumber)and lack of a well thought out plan
For some I believe they think the Jones's are worth following. For others can prove the Jones's ain't $hit. 
These forms have been around for centuries and are proven efficient and functional. Most things can and will be improved upon. In the scope of things great hardware is not expensive. A couple days wage is worth something that could last centuries if cared for. Is it for me? Not right now. For others? With out question,nothing but the best if they see fit, and that will show worth. I'm not a pious man but I do believe the Seven sins have deep insight about us.


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## terryR

Excellent topic for discussion, Mark!

A well-made bench is an heirloom tool, IMO. I agree that the mass alone will keep it off the side of the road for trash pick up. I hope! 

Mine is built from borg pine following The Schwarz. Wood was cheap, easy to obtain, and doesn't damage my fine tools when set to the side. I chose His build since it seemed just far enough ahead of my skills that I could really pull it off. Mostly M/T joinery with screws and glue. Pretty straightforward for a retired RN like myself. I added some mass to his design, and a leg vise after hanging on this thread for a few months since it's so versatile.

'The Pine Beater' certainly won't impress anyone, but gives me a solid foundation to improve my planing skills, cut DT's (I use the leg vise), and grow into a better woodworker. Already planning for another bench…hardwood, breadboard ends, lots of visible DT's, and bling! 

But, I'm 48, and I fully expect the pine bench to outlive me…Heck, just turn it up-side down, cut the legs shorter, and bury me in it.

Awesome, Kevin, major display of old manliness. Would like to see a 17 year old try that feat! He'd be bored and looking for a huge planer in 20 minutes! LOL. Goodness, MY shoulders are sore this AM for some weird reason…


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## BigRedKnothead

Good idea Ian.

Really Mark, the reasoning behind my bench is much the same as yours. I didn't splurge much on the hardware, but I plan to upgrade some of it one day. So, since you stole all the good reasons, I can only elaborate on them:

1) Function- I wanted something that would encourage/enable me to move deeper into hand tools. This definitely worked. 
2) Abuse- I wanted it to be built like a brick sh1+house….and it is. 
3) Impress- ya…a little. I want clients to know I'm serious about this. But, I can honestly say that most of what I do in woodworking is to prove to myself that I can do it. 
4) Skill set- yep…the through dovetails pushed me. I honestly laid in bed thinking about how I could pull them off. Now I regret not pushing my on other aspects of the bench.
5) Legacy- I hadn't really thought about that. If my kids don't want it someday, hopefully some woodworker would like to have it.

I built my bench because I thought it was fun. Because I enjoyed it. That's all.

And I don't think it should shock anyone that furniture makers/woodworkers are just as interested in the aesthetics of a bench or a tool as they are the function. Aesthetics and design or integral to what we do.


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## redSLED

"So, why build a bench in a particular way . . . "

Good write up there, Mark K.

I am beginning to build my first workbench now, after about 6-8 months of planning. Vises, wood and hardware all ready to go, and drawings done. Picture taking to be done.

My workbench will be the way it is because of 5 determinants:

A. It will be a highly efficient tool for the way I like to do work.
B. Vises and all wood are all salvaged or bought used (cheap!) because I value resourcefulness (i.e., I have not won the lottery yet).
C. I want to be proud of my workbench and enjoy working on it.
D. I do not want to have to build another "perfect" workbench again before I leave this planet. (There are just too many other things I want to do with my time.)
E. There is a distinctly different 4th reason I have for my workbench's design that most others I've seen don't include - I am saving this for later.

Thanks for all the great pictures from posters - this is a really good thread.


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## merrill77

Mark K said: "So, why build a bench in a particular way . . . "

I set off on my workbench journey with a single purpose - improve my work-holding capabilities for hand tool work and joinery. In the design process, every decision was evaluated in the light of work-holding. I wanted to be able to hold any workpiece in position for any operation I can foresee. With an exception for working on very large pieces - I don't do that often and don't have room to build a big bench.

I had these additional design constraints:
1) use materials I already have on hand
2) easy to build
3) provide some storage space, where possible (I have a small shop)

Aesthetics was never a consideration for me - this is purely a utilitarian bench.

I have not yet embarked on a complex project using my new bench, so I cannot yet evaluate whether I have achieved my goal. But so far, it has been a huge upgrade from what I had before (MDF slapped on some old cabinets). Working on this mirror frame was a joy:


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## LJackson

Okay, I'm the troublemaker who pointed out Mark's use of beautiful wood on a bench. I thought about the reasons, and using it to improve your skills did come to mind. I didn't think about impressing clients, because I'm just a hobbiest. Like terryR, I will be building a soft pine bench out of Home Cheapo 2×4s.

My goals are:


to have a flat surface (I will be using The Wood Whisperer's (and others) router sled technique for flattening the top)
have some way of holding wood. I'm guessing that's what all those holes are for in everyone else's bench. You put a dowel in there, then wedge the dowel and the work piece.
Have some storage. I've got stuff, I need to put it somewhere other than on the basement floor. So, the bottom will be a shelf. I think I'll hang clamps on the sides, too.

I'm not a hand-tool user, if I can help it. Mostly, I want to use it for glue ups, and routing.

Great discussion!


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## redSLED

^ Beautiful utilitarian bench there, merrill77.


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## JayT

Bench considerations:


Function-had to hold workpieces securely in a variety of ways, especially for hand tool use. Note: Holdfasts are awesome!
Availability-used SPF construction lumber for two reasons-this was the main one. I am over an hour from any decent hardwood dealer.
Budget-the other consideration for SPF. Not that I couldn't afford something nicer, but I'm still really just a beginner with hand tools and didn't want to build a beautiful bench and find out six months later it wasn't working for me. I don't have room for a second bench, so there's not even a possibility of re-using an inadequate bench differently.
Design-definitely wanted something I liked the appearance of and had some flexibility. Settled on a knockdown so that if/when I need to change a feature or component, I don't have to start from scratch again.
Aesthetics-didn't really care at this point, as long as it is flat, stable and functional, I'm good.
Legacy-not a consideration at all


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## theoldfart

Is it confession day or something? A group need to expound in some cathartic fashion maybe?

Have to find a church door somewhere so we post these.

Making a bench cuz' I wanna'! ( in a bit of a contrary mood )


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"So, why build a bench in a particular way . . . " (answering because Mark asked)

- Simple. I had a slab that I wanted to make something 'important' out of; and
- I had just read a pair of workbench books that presented the roubo style in some detail.

It just made sense. And it was only after I had the bench that I plunged into hand tool use.


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## Mosquito

"So, why build a bench in a particular way . . . "

For me, perceived necessity. I spent almost a year doing hand tool work on a workmate, and a folding table. Not ideal.

I designed and built mine the way I did, because I needed to be able to get it through a couple doorways, and down 2 flights of stairs. As a result of that, it's built in a way to allow it to come apart and be transported by myself (so it *doesn't* weight 600 pounds).

Also, since I primarily do smaller projects so far, my bench is just a shade over 4' long, and 20" wide.

Temporary tool storage space is very limited for me, so a tool well was something else I added to the design, to have a place to set tools I'm using at the moment.

I used red oak because I managed to find a 12/4 slab that was almost exactly the size I wanted to build the bench. I had also picked up a cheap hard maple 2×4 that I used for end caps and the back tool well tray rail (what would you call that anyway?). Rest was Red Oak because of availability and pricing.

Are there things I'd do differently if/when I build another one? Absolutely. But for now, I'm quite happy with my bench for my current arrangement (spare bedroom shop).

It's a good question/discussion topic. I enjoy reading the responses.


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## Slyy

Mark posed a great question. I gotta say I appreciate a lot of you answering it as well. As a guy who is really just getting into this hobby I've often fantasized and thought about some beautiful workbench I might build someday. What I haven't been able to give much thought about is the utilitarian aspect of an actual bench, one that would fit the way I work (haven't really done any real work to know what that will be). I still have a bit of a journey to find that "final" solution, but I'm sure I will (hopefully soon) embark on a lesser bench to fit needs that I don't have any real experience with yet. I think the vast majority of those in this thread have made a progression of bench builds in one fo or another before they got to the fancy ruobo (enter style here) bench.

The discussion the last day or so has realy given me a lot to think about, some things I didn't really consider. I'll find out all enough what my needs are and decide what I want in the "next" bench. Dream big or go home,
Maybe take the easy way build small go big later. Guess I'll figure out.


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## john2005

Mostly cause I work in a body shop and you can't do that and have a black truck. The only thing worse would be if it had a sun roof.

Seriously though I had 2 major driving forces.
1. To work on something other than sawhorses. (have you ever tried to plane on sawhorses? It's ridiculous)
2. To build my skills as others have said.

I believe I accomplished both. I even found areas I was lacking in I didn't realize. Why mine all fancy with walnut and stuff? Cause I like fancy and I got a killer deal on some stuff that was reject wood. The birch was just a good deal on CL. Hardware is all about function.


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## BigRedKnothead

LJackson- I think another thing that needs pointed out is that a lot of folks might use nicer hardwood on their bench, often it's not select furniture grade stuff. You just don't need it. Doesn't need to be klin dried either.

Part of the fun is to find a deal on a batch of lumber in your area, and goin to town.


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## shampeon

There's another aspect, too. Trying out a technique on shop furniture is a lot less stressful than on a piece for your living or dining room.


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## BigRedKnothead

Right, building your own bench is huge skill builder. Even more so if you're not just screwing some two by fours together.


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## theoldfart

At the moment not feeling too skilled I'm afraid. Contemplating the breadboard ends.


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## Mosquito

Other thing too, (to involve the car thing again) is that it's the same reason people buy nice cars. Will it get you to and from work any better than a beat up 20 year old toyota? (Ok, that's debatable, I suppose) but for the sake of argument, no. But with how much time is spent in the car every year, it might as well be nice, if that's what you like. Same with a good looking bench, I suppose. Might as well make it look nice, if you're going to be spending hours looking at it lol


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## redSLED

From my recent post #10147 above . . .

"I want to be proud of my workbench and enjoy working on it."

If we were all artificial intelligence robots we would not have to consider the above useless human sentiment.


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## BigRedKnothead

Kev- were breadboards the plan?


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## theoldfart

Yup, just like the look. Going to try full dovetails, hence the contemplation!


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## BigRedKnothead

A full sliding dovetail on the end?


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## shampeon

That would be awesome, Kevin. Whenever I think about it, I think about how I'd probably get it 75% of the way across and then it wouldn't budge either direction….


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## theoldfart

Yeh, suicidal?


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## CL810

Kevin, have you laminated the cherry strips on the top yet?


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## theoldfart

I really want to do this by hand and have been working it out in my head for quite some time. I'll have to make a decision pretty soon, however I can still fit the legs and set up the leg vise. The end vise can wait for the time being.


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## theoldfart

Andy I assume you mean the top and it is all done. The ends will also be cherry, those are cut and ready for dovetailing.


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## CL810

*Tobias*, or anyone who knows about wooden screws. Is there some kind of "rule" that determines the size of the screw relative to a metal screw? For example, does a one inch acme threaded rod equate to a 2" wood screw. A half inch threaded rod equate to a 1.25" wood screw?


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## BigRedKnothead

Doable, but it'll take brass cojones.

To my mind, you'd have to taper it to some extent. Like Bridge city talks about here:

http://www.bridgecitytools.com/blog/2013/12/24/tapered-sliding-dovetail-hand-video-news/

Being tapered leave the end caps extra long. Drive it home…and trim it to length wherever it lands.


----------



## CL810

Man oh man Kevin, you will be immortalized for doing a full sliding DT!

Another thing to do is actually cut out sections of the DT completely. At some point, full sliding DTs serve no point. I'm not sure how you decide how much to cut out, but it's common on say a 12" shelf sliding DT, to cut out an inch or so in a couple of places to help slide it on.

Definitely video worthy!


----------



## DanKrager

TOF, sounds like you need a new tool to do that French dovetail breadboard, right? Something like a dovetail, maybe? 
I know it's not for cutting dovetails, but it sure seems like something you need to have. Or you could build your own dovetail planes.
I'm gonna stalk your work on that breadboard just to learn the new vocabulary.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan a few of the words would be d%$mn, S*&t, Cr7p and so on

Red, that video is scary complicated, Smitty's 444 looks easier

Andy, THAT is a good idea, never occurred to me (smacks forehead with blunt object)

I feel like a christian in the coliseum now!

Edit, BTW because of the scale of this POTENTIAL dovetail, I don't think a hand plane could do it. I see using a mitre saw, long paring chisels and maybe a router plane.


----------



## CL810

For you Kevin, it's more like Daniel and the lions. Tame the beast!!


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## theoldfart

Yea, and yous guys are da lions!! Now I know how lunch feels.


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## widdle

Dont trip fartman…two templates and do a 12 " tester..Just dont cross over your pencil lines into oncoming traffic..i dont think you would have much trouble..


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## BigRedKnothead

No lion here. I think you can do it. I was just trying to help with the how.


----------



## widdle

To add to what red wrote above, the thickness of the end cap could be left a little fat as well..


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## john2005

Man Kevin you're a bigger man than I thought! And that's after the whole up down stairs flatten with the 8 in one night. I spread my planing out over a couple days. I had considered the sliding dovetail, but chickened out in the end. I didn't think I had what it took. That's why I ended up doing the traditional breadboard with dovetailed caps. Then I had the look. As previously stated, you will be immortalized in LJ history if you pull this off. I'm thinking you're just the guy to do it too!


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## theoldfart

Widdle, they are both fatter and longer ( I can't believe I just wrote that)

Thank you everyone for the positive vibes


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## DanKrager

TOF, not on a workbench but on a long trestle (refectory) table I put sliding dovetail breadboards on a 42" span. They were relatively small (compared to your dream) and they were machine cut, but I'll bet they are still on and SOLID, no glue. It would be fun to see this table again. It is made of five pieces, can be disassembled without tools (if you know the trick) and it held up 500 lbs in the middle with less than 1/16" deflection. Made in 1969 and lives in NY somewhere. 








I KNOW you can do it! Tapering is a good idea. Just remember to leave it long so the taper sets, then trim to length. 
DanK


----------



## Slyy

Haha Kevin, thank god you kept it away from the SOTS thread!

Full length DT's are gonna be fuggin sweet man! I think you've given us all a woodworking stubby just imagining the glory that's headed your and our way!!!!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

1969?? I was -10 years old.


----------



## theoldfart

^^ I was married and a parent within a year. Oh yea draft lottery # 349!


----------



## Slyy

Apparently Rojo's not just an angry midget, his yearbook picture was in tintype:


----------



## BigRedKnothead

ohhhh snap.


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## CL810

Red, just remember this: 55 is the new 45.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I turn 35 in a couple weeks. I'm takin this one kinda hard. Not in my early 30s anymore. I still feel 25.

I wonder how many older folks just rolled their eyes….

Plus I keep shrinking. And my shop keeps getting bigger. It's tough.


----------



## theoldfart

Eyes are rolling and rolling and ….....


----------



## CL810

35?!? Wow, I feel soooo bad for you. ;-)


----------



## Airframer

I turned 36 last Friday.. only 4 till 40! Soon I'll be able to sit on my porch and shake my cane at the kids on my lawn like OF there


----------



## Slyy

Just had my first extra digit after the "3", my dang wife still has the last year of her 20's (I'm secretly jealous!).


----------



## CL810

Ok, this thread went south in a hurry. Get back to bench building!


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## Airframer

Calm down old man or I'll make sure the nurses forget your pudding tonight..


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## john2005

I am pretty sure I just turned 36. I say it that way cause I spent most of my 27th year telling everybody I was 28. Then my wife overheard me one day. She of course corrected me. I argued and argued until she pulled out my ID. Turns out she was right. Just can't be right about anything.


----------



## Iguana

I was born in '69. Makes me kind of in between thinking I'm getting old and shaking my cane at the youngsters complaining about getting old. I'm taking the position that today is the day I'm as young as I'll ever be. That'll probably change when I start taking meds to get me out of bed in the morning and more meds to put me to sleep at night.


----------



## Iguana

I'll follow up my question by noting that I have absolutely nothing against benches (or any shop furniture) being made from construction lumber. I considered doing just that in one iteration of my bench design.

Problem is, construction-grade lumber here is pitiful. One of the primary industries in this corner of the continent is forestry, yet we ship most of our good lumber elsewhere. Over the last year, I've ordered nearly $30,000 worth of lumber for my house, and I've seen not a single board suitable for use in a bench. It is all white spruce or beetle-kill pine. I've looked around and I can get lodgepole pine pretty cheaply, but it isn't any harder than the white spruce. And while I can get douglas-fir pretty easily, it isn't cheap. More than poplar, alder and soft maple, and not much less than that cherry I picked up.

I just finished making a stool from pine 2×4s. I really like the aesthetic quality of beetle-kill pine:









And I made a table for my planer from spruce 2×4s:









The top for that table is very similar in size to what I want for my workbench. But it is too soft for a bench that will see heavy use for at least 20 years. And it sags already. Not much, but enough to make it a problem for a bench.

I considered a lot of things when picking the materials for the top, money included. The cherry seemed like the best all-round choice I could make. And the jatoba seemed like the best in terms of achieving the weight I want without spending too much.


----------



## Iguana

Did some more work on the bench today. Realized that I needed the final top dimensions before getting too serious about the base. Ripped up some boards:









I'll let them settle a bit before heading to the jointer.

Decided to see what the scale of the bench would look like:

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content










I should just throw some screws into that puppy and call 'er done. The bench, that is. I'll let the doc decide if my wrist needs some added titanium.

Blog posting at http://lumberjocks.com/Iguana/blog/40494


----------



## TobiasZA

CL810 - Hi. I have no idea regarding wood vs metal thread sizes. When i built my vises years ago, I went for the largest wood tap that I could find at the time (1 1/2") from Beall. The shafts are quite powerful and I have had no problems even when putting quite heavy pressure on them. I am sure that there are some clever jocks here that have metalwork experience and can enlighten us, I would also be interested to know their thoughts.
Cheers
Tobias


----------



## theoldfart

Mark, what's your final bench height going to be ? Also unrelated, like the planer/jointer set up!


----------



## Sylvain

John2005, for your wife
Age is like on a rule:
the first inch goes from the mark zero to the mark one.
The first year goes from birth to the first birthday.

So after your 36th birthday your are starting to eat your 37th year. (Show on the rule)

So saying you are 36 is not right because you are already a few days older.

In French legal text we would say " 36 ans révolus" wich means "after the 36th anniversary"


----------



## theoldfart

Ok, so though it seems counterproductive I'm about to knock holes in my nice smooth bench top. Spent a little while fine tuning the tenons and dovetails









Starting to lay out the mortises









Damn another senior moment, just realized as i was posting this I need to start from the underside.

Question for those who have done this style. Did you knife the lines on both top and bottom and bore through on both sides?


----------



## richardwootton

Kevin I haven't done it yet, but will be, and that's what I was thinking. Mark both sides, bore half way, flip and bore the rest of the way, then chop, flip, chop.


----------



## richardwootton

By the way, did you laminate those legs?


----------



## Airframer

I didn't do exactly those type of legs but I have through mortised legs and yes.. knife both sides, bore/chop half and flip rinse repeat.


----------



## theoldfart

Richard, the legs are one piece 5 1/8" x 5 1/8".

Eric, thanks. Are you gonna come help flip that thing?


----------



## Airframer

Sure! Just ship it on over here!


----------



## theoldfart

Think one of those flat rate mailers will work? Or maybe just put a stamp on it!


----------



## john2005

Same here with the "knife both sides, bore half way and flip" routine. I think that's the way to go, but it is rather nerve racking to lay that first scribe. Especially after all the work that goes into the top. I found that for flipping mine, it worked really well to lift the one side to vertical and balance on edge. A 4" slab will balance quite well. Then put a clamp on the sawhorses so it doesn't slide out, go to the other side and let it down. It worked very well and was easy on the back.
That thing is going to rock when your done!

Thanks for the ammo Sylvain. I still may not win, but at least I can put up a fight now.


----------



## Iguana

Kevin, bench will be 33 1/2" high.

I came up with that J/P arrangement in my old shop because I needed to conserve space. Liked it so much I've kept the arrangement in the new shop.


----------



## lysdexic

Ancient Flatuence,

Allow me to say that your your bench build is strong. Really impressive.


----------



## Iguana

I milled and glued boards for two quarters of the top. Should be able to get to the dog strip tomorrow.

Blog: http://lumberjocks.com/Iguana/blog/40513

Those of you who rely on heft and hubris to accomplish your milling for something of this scale, I tip my cap. I'm not sure if I envy your dedication to the craft or pity your foolish romanticism. It was a lot of work with the tailed jointer and planer to get this far, and there's plenty more to come.

Not that I'm averse to hand tools. I use my hand planes just about every day and enjoy the experience. But for large scale work like this, I don't enjoy it so much. I will, however, do it if a client asks very nice. And by "asks very nicely" I mean "flashes the right number of benjamins". (I.Am.Canadian, so I guess its "bordens")


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Mark, more than once I've started to mill some rough lumber by hand, only to say "screw this," and finish with the power jointer and planer. I guess my romanticism is short-lived when it comes to milling.

However, when it comes to smoothing, I don't care if it takes me longer with hand tools or not. I suppose it's because I never minded milling lumber with power tools, but I always despised sanding.

Kev- How would we do it? I don't think we know anybody who had the stones to do that joint all by hand;-)


----------



## terryR

I have to admit, I'm the boneheaded guy who enjoys milling wood by hand. Of course, by that I mean re-sawing with the big ole bandsaw and flatten stock down to the marking gauge line with handplane.










And, then again, most of my projects are small, like the No.45 till taking shape above. 1/2" poplar and walnut…easy to work with planes. I'm pretty sure when I build my dream bench from red oak, my feelings will be different towards the tailed planer, or when I finally progress to furniture!  But, my lunchbox planer is so cheap, I bet I still run a smoother across the wood's surface at least twice.

A bit off topic, but looks like LN didn't put any finish on the top of the knob on that 4 1/2 above. Looks weird in person. But, if I can pump up my skinny arms a little more, I'll use this heavy plane till it wears out!  Bollocks to the wood finish…


----------



## theoldfart

OK guys knife, bore, flip, repeat. Got it

John, yea the top is fairly stable on edge.

Byo, thanks

Mark and Red, the plan was to use a tailed planer, just couldn't get it out of the cellar.

Edit, wrote this post two hours ago, forgot to click post! Senior moments are killing me.


----------



## Pezking7p

For those who have made a wagon vise, what screw did you use? I'd like to make a screw from acme rod, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to keep it captive to the bench that doesn't involve a ton of machining. The best I can come up with is to use two acme nuts with thrust bearings to clamp it to the bench. Thoughts?


----------



## woodcox

Rails are done. I added a couple more for fun. Four more mortises then comes assembly.


----------



## Airframer

Pez.. have a look at how I built mine.. it might help http://lumberjocks.com/Airframer/blog/36933

I used a flange bearing and other assorted detritus..


----------



## Slyy

Woodcox the bench is coming along fine! Dig the shop floor full of curly shavings.

Superannuated Vaporous One I did not realize your legs were one piece, you are going for the epic in this build aren't you! I think you're gonna have to recruit a few buddies to help you flip that thing over to work on both sides, your top is absolutely monolithic.


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Jake. If it doesn't work out as a bench I'm going to loan it to Stanley Kubrick as a prop for a 2001 remake!


----------



## Pezking7p

Thanks for the link, Eric. Helped me a bunch and I've got a plan now.

Speaking of plans, I'm about ready to rock and roll. With any luck I'll get some boards for the top milled tomorrow.


----------



## Iguana

I've been thinking about dogs. Bench dogs, to be more specific. Round or square? The Schwarz has one opinion and Jameel Abraham takes the opposite side. Landis and Schleining are kind of agnostic. What say you?

I know I'm going to make them from beech, though. Cheap, hard and will be a good contrast.


----------



## Pezking7p

Mark, I was going to use square because I could make them during glue up. But after reading Schwarz comments about round dogs, I decided I agree with him. Adding round holes after the fact is easy, they are compatible with all the best aftermarket dog products, and they offer more clamping angles and/or will more easily clamp stock that isn't square.


----------



## terryR

Dog holes…round. All the Veritas goodies fit!


----------



## terryR

Sorry for the crappy iPad photo…but yesterday I added a new chip and debris collection system to the back of my bench…










Yeah, it's a 5" wide shelf with holes bored in it for tools, but really excels at collecting debris! LOL. Made of red oak, more oak supports underneath simply screwed to the bench and the wall. Even used a scrap of birch ply for a quick backsplash in front of the window…temporary.

Looks like my 1200 square ft 'shop' will be renovated into a goat shelter this spring/summer. Our current barn is too low and wet…shop is high and dry, with 200 amp electrical service! Will make a sweet shelter for livestock. I'll see to it first hand. 

...so, a new shop for terryR…but I have to build everything except the concrete foundation and roof trusses. Manly work. But, hey, by age 50, I could have the shop of my dreams!


----------



## woodcox

Nice Terry. Don't let the meat chew your bench!


----------



## woodcox

A base. Yeah buddy!


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, I like the tray idea so I may plagiarize

Woodcox, the gravity generator has failed captain, I don't how much more she can take!

Dan, looks like a good start.

Taking a step back for the moment on the bench. In want to work with it at couple of different heights to see what works best. From my reading you can measure from the floor to your wrist or the where you pinky joins your hand. It also makes a difference if you are a power tool type or a hand tool type. Even makes a difference if you use woodies or arn'. So right now I'm at 30 1/2".









My floor is not level so I had to shim one end


















I need to make a table for my granddaughter to go with the chairs I posted earlier so that should give me a feel for how this height will work out


----------



## john2005

Not totally sold on the low bench thing. Then again I have a 36 1/2" inseam and proportionally short arms. I know, I'm a freak. Whatevs. The 35 1/2" bench height is feeling good so far, I just built in such a fashion I could take an inch off the bottom if necessary. We'll se on that front. Ya gotta go with what fits ya though.


----------



## woodcox

Well $hit!


----------



## theoldfart

What's off, the drill or the dowel?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^might have to go back for a 3/4" dowel?

Terry! Building a new shop! That would be fun. Please tell me your gonna invest in a framing nailer this time. Or you can borrow my paslode;-)


----------



## chrisstef

Story of my life woodcox.


----------



## theoldfart

A quick observation, I like planing at this height much better than my old bench. Also the top is not attached to the saw horses but did not budge.


----------



## Pezking7p

OF, I guess you just debunked all the roubo hype. Just need to make a heavy top and set it on sawhorses.


----------



## theoldfart

Yep! 'Cept maybe for the leg vise and not sure where to put the 203's.


----------



## Airframer

iirc mine is somewhere around 32" so not much taller than yours OF. I was surprised how comfy that height was to be honest.

Here is how I managed the 203 issue..


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, I was being a wise ass responding to Dans' post.

Also How tall are you? I'm just under 5'11" and the bench is currently at 30 1/2"


----------



## BigRedKnothead

5' 11" ??? What are you guys….a bunch of midgets?


----------



## Airframer

I'm just under 5' 11" as well. Just measured and my bench is sitting right at 32 1/2"


----------



## theoldfart

Red, tol' ya them 'roids weren't no good for you. Made you grow like a weed! :0)

Don't think of myself as short. So just how high is your bench?


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, I'm going to add shims and slowly raise the height about a 1/2" at a time and see how it goes. So far 30 1/2" is surprisingly workable for planing, drilling and using the mitre box.


----------



## Pezking7p

Why so low? My assembly table/bench is 35", seems right but I've never used shorter. I was going to make my bench 34" tall.

Spent my weekend refurbing planes and saws. No bench progress. Sad.


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, easier to get your weight over the planes. Using a breast drill and bit brace are way easier when the work is lower.


----------



## Airframer

It's all about personal comfort. For me 32 1/2" feels just right for you it may be lower. Go with what feels right for you.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

My bench is 37". I can barely see over it;-)

Ya, make a shorter bench for planing. Then a taller joinery bench for everything else. I'm such a problem solver.


----------



## theoldfart

^+1. Can we say Moxon!


----------



## shampeon

Cross braces for the legs. Mortising at 15 degrees.









One down.









Almost had a royal screwup on the other brace. I cut the angle at 15 degrees, then cut the shoulders and the tenon…all on the wrong side. Luckily I had enough length (barely) to recut the shoulders going the right way. The tenon in the straight leg will be pretty short, so I'm definitely draw-boring it now.


----------



## DanKrager

^Thanks for the laugh, BRK!
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bam!








-
Despite working silly hours on the rails of late, I've been slowly dovetailing all the drawers for my joinery bench. I'm getting all kinds of crazy idea with how I'm gonna finish it off. I've got some vacation time later this month. Hopefully an unveiling early summer.


----------



## woodcox

I had edge of bore 5/8 from shoulder on the brain. Out loud quote, "you simple bastard!" Is my old stand by. Hence me asking the ol'lady if by is spelled bye in that context. 
Funny stef.


----------



## theoldfart

Good save Ian


----------



## richardwootton

Nice work Ian, glad you made the save!

Rojo, things are looking good! I've been taking short breaks from dimensioning the red oak for my bench top to practice cutting DTs and through dovetails and tenons so I don't royally screw it up when it comes time to do it for real.


----------



## richardwootton

Question for the panel; even though this should be in the epic saw thread, has anyone tried the Lynx brand of saws. I'm looking for new saws, but totally can't afford a new bad axe saw or the like. What say you?


----------



## widdle

I snapped a pick of Redmon on his bench last year, I think it was 30 wide by 40' tall..


----------



## richardwootton

Haha, good play widdle! Did you cut those little butterflies?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

For some reason the jokes about my size are still funny. Ehh, one day we'll get tired of it.

Richard- The Lynx saw plates are ok, but the handles are awful. For backsaws, veritas don't cost much more… and they're great saws.

I would also hit up other LJs on the saw thread. Wally makes awesome and reasonable backsaws. I think Stef is restoring some. And Summerfi has some for sale:

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/58896

I bought a restored vintage saw from him and it is top notch.


----------



## widdle

You're a good sport red..


----------



## richardwootton

I have drooled over a Wally saw for a while, I guess I need to pm him and see if I can't get a couple. I'm sick of my big box store saws and still haven't mastered the art of restoring, or sharpening, vintage saws.


----------



## Airframer

You're a good sport red..

Yes he is.. just don't bring up the LN haul he scored and wont shut the hell up about… that is apparently a sore subject…. Ahh crap..


----------



## widdle

nikes, adidas , vans, flip flops, ace bandage..Prolly still gonna take most of us to the hole brother..He gets it done..


----------



## john2005

Wasn't able to get as much shop time as hoped. With kid duty all I got was nap time. That was just enough to put a finish on the front, and the attachments. Really makes that walnut come to life. Hope to wrap up this week after work. 
Also went to order Gramercy holdfasts and they are back ordered. Darn you poor planning!


----------



## jmartel

I FINALLY got around to cutting some spacer blocks for my leg vise today. Only been what, like 7 or 8 months since I got the bench workable? (Still not finished)


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## BigRedKnothead

Man, that bench is turning out nice John. Fun to admire over morning coffee.

Jmart- that's what you get for hangin out with Stef. Destination procrastination.

I get the feeling if Eric and I hung out I'd be givin that scrawny bugger a lot of charlie horses.


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## CL810

Eyepoppin' John!


----------



## Pezking7p

Looking good, John. I can't remember for sure, what is the light colored wood? I thought you said osage orange but I'm thinking that can't be right.


----------



## JayT

Bench is looking sweet, John!


----------



## john2005

Thx guys, totally diggin it.

Pez, the light wood is just paper Birch. Got plenty of character though


----------



## theoldfart

John, the bench came out great. The walnut stands out really well. Great job.


----------



## terryR

John, your bench is a pure joy to stare at! I'm not sure I could lay chisels and sharp objects on the top, though!  Actually, work marks may make it even more beautiful? Wow, that walnut rocks!!!

Ian, awesome work. Everything you build looks cleanly joined and perfect…just like Red's stuff…


----------



## shampeon

That's a fantastic bench, John.


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## DanKrager

Awesome, John!
DanK


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## AnthonyReed

Stunning John. Right on man.


----------



## Iguana

Splendid, John!


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## john2005

Got the finish done tonight!!! A big shout out to all who suggested Danish oil. Allowed me to work in stages and came out real nice. I will try to finish my blog now, get some good pics and post it as done. For now, the stress is off. On that project! Here's a little more of a teaser for ya










Boatman Jim's chain drive up and running. It's pretty sweet Jim, you do real nice work!










This is the backside…..


----------



## ToddJB

Simply amazing, John. She's very beautiful.


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## Boatman53

Great job on the bench John. You are going to love that leg vise.
Jim


----------



## 280305

Any thoughts on LV's latest offering?
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=71736&cat=1,41637


----------



## CL810

Too funny!


----------



## JonathanW

I'm disappointed that they seem to be out of stock on the 10 packs of dog holes. I was hoping to try them out on my new bench.


----------



## theoldfart

^^ gotta change my design. Good thing I haven 't mortised the legs yet!


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## chrisstef

Gorgeous John!


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## AnthonyReed

Splendid John!!


----------



## terryR

Simply gorgeous, John…

...although I just notived 100 misc tools laying everywhere in your shop…EXCEPT on the beautiful benchtop. You really gonna use it? LOL.

Hmmm…that Veritas bench looks handy for hanging tools! Love how the dust and debris falls right to the floor.

Yeah, too bad they are out of stock on the bench dog holes…I could use 4 or 5.


----------



## merrill77

I wish they were offering the free dog holes last year when I built my benchtop - I could have saved a fortune. I have a lot dog holes on my bench. Not those cheap round ones either - mine are square. All 61 of them! I can assure you they were not cheap.


----------



## woodcox

Congrats on the new bench, it turned out real nice John.


----------



## Pezking7p

John, I love that chain guide, I hadn't seen it posted before. I started a prototype Kiefer Vise last night, but I'm thinking maybe the chain guide is simpler and just as effective, though not quite as much cool factor.


----------



## WayneC

See the latest bench design from lee valley?

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?&p=71736&c=


----------



## WayneC

Doh. Missed Chuck's post.


----------



## woodcox

Despite a build plan one constant detail has been a want from the beginning, ability to disassemble. Since ditching the trestle horse bench base, it racked and rolled to say the least, for a leg assembly. I wanted to still have the take down feature with out compromising rigidity. I came across Schwarz's take down holtzapffel and figured I could do the same with a few lags. I don't know when I will but cool to know I can separate the top.


----------



## Pezking7p

Woody, coming along really nicely. Do you feel like you've given up anything in order to have a knockdown bench?


----------



## woodcox

Only respect Dan My first bench and definately not my last. I'll save the refined traditional type and joinery for another when I'm confident I can pull it off. I stood up on it like an ape shaking it's cage and could not rack it at all. We'll see when I get it on the feet but I'm sure it is solid. I'm very happy with what I did despite some hiccups along the path.


----------



## theoldfart

Woody, that thing looks like it could support the Titanic.


----------



## Slyy

John, a bit late to the party but that thing is gorgeous! Congrats!!


----------



## ShopStorm

Pretty basic all around DIY workbench, but watch the end. My grinder and vice are always on my bench but never in the way.

https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&feature=vm&video_id=x2etyDTpPOw


----------



## BigRedKnothead

A fellow LJ pm'd me after I posted this pic of Schwarz's bench till thingy:










-
He expressed a safety concern. After thinking about it, I have to agree. Man, all those sharp edges exposed like that. What if a guy bent over and came up into one of those chisel. Even worse, those "sharpies" are right about the height of a toddler. Ya, don't think I'll be doing that unless I encase the bottom.


----------



## jmartel

Easy enough to just widen the board and prevent that.


----------



## john2005

Good point there Red. I liked the idea but the little guy has already bumped his head a couple times on bench. No point ….making it worse.


----------



## Mosquito

I would agree with jmartel. That, and my bench is mostly up against a wall, which again would prevent that from being an issue for me. Then again, I've also got a tool well, so… yeah lol


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Just widen it? How's that Jmart. You got a board stretcher in your shop? hehehe.


----------



## ToddJB

All, do any of you have a good instructional link for making a deadman?

Like should it slide on the bottom of the dado or on the shoulder or both? How much shorter should it be than the distance between the top and bottom dados. Is the hole pattern personal preference or is there a science to it? Should there be a shoulder on the front and back or just one or the other? Am I just over thinking it?


----------



## Iguana

Todd,

It is only overthinking if it gets in the way of building.

One thing you have wrong is using a groove on the bottom stretcher. If you do that, it becomes a debris collector and you soon won't be able to slide the deadman. Instead, most designs I've seen have a triangular profile on the top of the stretcher (either cut from the stretcher or added to it as a separate piece). The bottom of the deadman has the negative of this profile, and that is where the sliding action happens.

My opinion on the spacing at the top of the deadman is that it should be as small as feasible (depending on if/how the deadman can be removed), as it affects the placement of the topmost hole.

The only thing about hole spacing is that you want to be able to have a board of any width be at a reasonable height off the top for edge work. Too high and it is unstable. So base your hole spacing on about half of that maximum projection.


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks Mark! As for the groove - its already there. I'm refurbishing a 100 year old bench and I don't want to change the original design too much.


----------



## Iguana

In that case, if you are planning on using it, my inclination would be to make a piece that fits in (and fills) the bottom groove and has the trianglar profile on top. Make it a friction fit so you don't have to permanently alter the bench.


----------



## NimbleJack

Stumbled across this bench on an online state surplus auction site. Its former home was the University of Oregon. Its new home will literally be a new home. Our house and my wood shop and 3 generations of tools burned to the ground in June 2012. We hope to have the new home and shop finished this summer. For less than $1000 I snagged this beauty. The bench has 4 vises. One is a complete fully functioning Emmet pattern makers vise, the other three are made by C.A. Herriman of Chicago. The cupboard was stuffed with select maple and claro walnut. And the drawers have old brass drawer locks with key. I have never seen a herkier bench dog setup. 3/8" steel inlet into the bench top. I love the cool corner wrap around vises. It is a heavy bugger. I had to use a chain winch to unload it. I cant wait to get into a space where I can use it. My first project is a new dining room table.













































Would love to hear from anyone that knows about the Herriman vises. I did a web search and did not turn up much at all. They are oh so smooth.


----------



## chrisstef

Holy crap Jack. That's a lotta bench there boy. Some seriously cool stuff going on there.


----------



## john2005

I can't tell you much on function, but I can tell you, from the pis they look sweet!!

Todd, is it possible take a piece of stock and on one side, match your existing groove, on the other rip a 45 along each edge so it comes to a point that spans the length, like Mark said. Then you ca have a functional deadman, that doesn't collect debris. If made tight enough, it will likely stay in place with a little gravity and some friction. Then if you don't like it, you take it out, leaving the bench unmolested and come at it from a different angle. Because you have the groove, you can get away with this where a new build probably wouldn't. Hope that helps.


----------



## ToddJB

Mark and John, Thanks! I think I have a plan now. More to come soon.


----------



## shampeon

Ok, leg vise decision time.








left to right we have:
8/4 rough walnut (2 1/8" right now), 8/4 S2S sapele (2" exactly), 12/4 rough red oak (almost 3")

I'm leaning toward the red oak to match the rest of the bench, but then I look at the grain of the walnut & sapele and start thinking. Hmm….


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I say you need some flair.


----------



## CL810

Ian, are you putting in a criss-cross? If you are, the chop needs to be 2.5". So, you'll have to laminate the walnut and sapele but the oak you're good to go.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh sure! Here comes Mr. Voice of Reason.


----------



## Pezking7p

The walnut is making me feel some type of way.

Wagon vise parts teaser:


----------



## shampeon

I am putting in a criss-cross. I guess that makes my decision for me. But for my deadman I'll have to add in some flare.


----------



## donwilwol

I just see 3 leg vices. No decision required.


----------



## JayT

^ I like the way he thinks.


----------



## JADobson

Don for the win!


----------



## jmartel

Personally, I'd do the Sapele, with another piece of 4/4 Sapele on the inside laminated to it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

A 12/4 oak chop will be pretty sweet too. I've never seen anyone dye or stain their chop to give it some flair. If done right, I think that could be cool too.

Pez- where's the wagon vise hardware from?


----------



## woodcox

Fade to black face chop. Thinking sap wood next to the maple apron. Also swapping that 3/4 end cap for 12/4 maple. 
My end vise chop is maple with walnut and maple handles. Face chop will be walnut with maple and walnut handles. My flair.


----------



## Pezking7p

Love that piece for the chop, Woodcox. But I'm biased. I clearly have a soft spot for walnut.

Red, it's all parts from McMaster. Cost about $35 total. Just needs some machining on the handwheel.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

First drawer done. Lots of dividers for hardware etc. Man my joinery bench is gonna be organized. Appeases my beaver tendencies. I'm speaking of the personality type .....pervs.









-









I'm bettin' Stef's an Otter.


----------



## shampeon

Dan: cool project. I just dropped off my hand wheel and LV end vise at the machinist to get the wheel bored and mounted. You thought about baking the hand wheel with flax oil bronze it?

woodcox: Nice slab there. Should make an awesome chop.

Rojo: nice drawers! That's always a compliment. I have no idea which animal I am. Probably some unholy hybrid of all 4.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

hehehe. Most people are a mix of the personality types. I'm a Lion/Beaver. My wife is a total golden retriever.

I'll be interested to see that Ian. I've thought about changing my leg vise to a wheel.


----------



## chrisstef

An otter? Do I look/act like id hold hands with my mate while we slept so we wouldn't float apart?

Nice tackle box drawer there Beaver. The BigRedBeaver. The Breaver. Breave. Lol.


----------



## bandit571

Found out one benefit of having that Tool Chest nearby the bench









If I am sawing on some dovetails









This is what I see if I plunk my rearend down on that tool chest. makes sawing these out a bit less tiresome. I can sit and saw this way. Might just work out









You think?


----------



## chrisstef

I gotta say bandito, youre squills are really starting to show off. Not so much with the camera but more on the joinery end of this. Half blind mitered DT's … solid. Have a Dew on me.

Edit - errr .. or full blind. Lol.


----------



## merrill77

Dunno about the toolbox thing. But mitered full-blind dovetails? I'm impressed! (though I, personally, am too pragmatic to hide all that work!)


----------



## bandit571

Hiding them is part of the game









This is only the third corner I have ever done this way, the first two were a bit more difficult, but I ight get it down before too long. Imagine sitting a mitered box out for someone, and tell them that no glue, nail or other fastening is used???









Did have to modify one chisel, though. re-grind the profile to get into all of them corners…


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, my wife is making a cushion for the top of mine. Been using it as a seat since I built it.


----------



## Pezking7p

Red: I saw your dadoes in the furniture thread and wondered if you were filling that drawer with dividers.

Ian, I was completely unaware of the flax oil treatment. Just read benchcrafted's article about it and it looks really cool.

How are you having your handwheel machined? or is it specific to the vice? I was planning on just boring and using a pair of set screws to hold the acme screw in place, but now I'm thinking that's a bad idea. I think I'm going to drill and tap the end of my acme screw and use a machine screw to attach the handwheel.

Can anyone describe how their handwheels are attached to their vises? Or provide pics?


----------



## bandit571

Isn't there Table saw handwheels for sale out there? Sears USED to sell them as an "up-grade' for the emerson ones. Not sure who sells them nowadays…


----------



## Pezking7p

It's the ultimate show-off: your skills are so great that you use complicated joinery but hide it because you don't need anyone to know.

Also, it looks like everyone is using a set screw but cutting the end of the acme screw down. I asked our machinist if I could use the mill after hours to get my handwheel ready, he told me I'd just break something so he'd do it while I watchd. I wonder if I can get him to put my screw on the lathe….


----------



## shampeon

The Lee Valley end vise already has a shoulder for their handle, so I'm having the wheel bored for that shoulder, then drilled on the side for the cotter pin to keep it captive.

You could certainly drill and tap it for a machine screw. If you plan on just using two set screws, I'd grind a flat on the shoulder for one of them. But there's a lot of torque being applied to the screw, so having a through pin seems like a better solution, to me.


----------



## shampeon

bandit: I got my hand wheel from Grizzly, but there's other places like McMaster-Carr and Enco that sell them.


----------



## Pezking7p

looks like benchcrafted are using set screws, but seating them in a little divot. I think I'll do this and add loctite to keep the screw from backing out.

EDIT: Picture fail. I deleted them.


----------



## ToddJB

Red - we must have taken different test. The one I took was beavers, dolphins, owls, and fox. I'm 100% fox… obvi.

Bandit - nice work.

Deadman is done, but I'm behind on computer blog time… So ya'll just need to wait.


----------



## Slyy

Strong work Todd, will be a great to see it!

Bandito, those DT's are looking bad-A for sure.

Finally looking at a house to buy with a 30'x30' shop, gonna have to start buckling down on a bench build!


----------



## Pezking7p

Big potential score on the house, jake. Heated shop?

I'm waffling and I need input. End caps on my bench top or leave the end grain? I'm torn and overthinking this.


----------



## lysdexic

End caps. Just looks finished.


----------



## CL810

+1^


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

End grain. Looks genuine.


----------



## Slyy

Insulated Dan current owners got electric out to it but nothing hooked up. Bit of a waffler though, has had it on and off the market, we'll see!


----------



## richardwootton

Dan, I've always thought end caps looked really cool, but I say that more from an aesthetic point of view as opposed to pragmatic.


----------



## woodcox




----------



## JADobson

That is a monster! Looks great. Someone has probably already asked this but how thick are those legs?


----------



## shampeon

A well deserved Corona there. Massive, in all senses.


----------



## widdle

well done woodcox…Solid..


----------



## richardwootton

Very friggin' sexy brother! I'm just trying to figure out why there aren't six+ coronas instead of just one!


----------



## CL810

Woodcox you built a beast!! Big wow factor.


----------



## chrisstef

Beefcake Woodcox, beefcake.


----------



## theoldfart

Outstanding Woodie, the libation is well deserved.


----------



## Pezking7p

You could set a truck on that base. Those stretchers are hyooge.


----------



## JayT

That bench is hoss, woodcox! Looks like nothing short of a tank would do any damage.


----------



## merrill77

Woodcox, that's an outstanding bench!

But I must protest the choice of beer for the pic. Drink what you like, but that bench deserves a stout!


----------



## woodcox

Thank fellas. Cool to see her conscious. 
Jdob, 5" square fir.


----------



## terryR

+1 on protesting the cheap beer on your new bench, Woodcox. That bench deserves a quart of the finest home brewed whiskey. The good stuff…I'm on my way over…LOL.

Jake, 30×30' is huge! Be sure to think about heating and cooling…the biggest complaint of my huge shop.

+1 to end grain showing…










That's the first thing everyone notices about my bench (non woodworkers). I suppose it depends on the actual wood being used, but I'd never cover pine end grain. Just add supports underneath to combat movement. Of course, IF my bench were made of walnut and sapele, I'd want end caps, condor tails, through morticed legs, all the bling please!


----------



## Pezking7p

Terry, is that a potential mallet head I see sitting on your bench?

I think I'm going to start with end grain, because that's how schwartz did it. If I hate it, I can re-cut the end and add end caps. It would remove a lot of the complexity from my bench build. Headed to the lumber store at lunch to pick up my red oak and poplar for the bench.


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, just give some thought to mounting an end vise. As a quick and dirty, i thought I would do the end caps later then realized that would leave holes and mortises from the vise. The front vise is a leg vise so no problem there.


----------



## Pezking7p

Thanks Kev. I'm doing a wagon vise, I'm pretty sure the way I'm doing it will work as long as I leave my lead screw long enough for any extra width. AND leave enough extra meat on the end of the wagon that I can cut down for a tongue. Am I missing something else? Nothing is set in stone until I glue up the top, which will be a few days at least.


----------



## theoldfart

I'm not conversant on wagon vises, but sounds like you've given it some thought. I think I spend too much time going over what ifs'. :<)


----------



## theoldfart

Brown came and left a present









Oh boy, Oh boy, Oh boy


----------



## Pezking7p

^^ that's a big screw.

Looks like the bench may turn out longer that 6'


----------



## theoldfart

^ Dan, you mean landing strip, don't you?


----------



## Pezking7p

I found out that the dang mill only had 10' boards! They said on the phone the boards were 8-12' long. I figured: "8', need to clean up the ends and get to the good stuff anyway, that'll work"

Well, the boards were ALL 10', and I ended up buying about 2X as much oak as I planned on. Oh well, lumber was 25-30% cheaper than the other lumber place.


----------



## widdle

Nice^^
terry apparently has been taking advantage of the free shipping…and the end grain does have a good look…


----------



## CL810

Terry, your plane is going the wrong way! ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

plane's fine, benches back ass to!


----------



## terryR

Dan and Ian, that's an old photo of the bench…posing! LOL.

The 5 1/2 was turned around for the photo, and that spalted block clamped to the bench is still a spalted block somewhere in the shop! Not worthy of a mallet head….but a sweet bowl maybe.

Looks like we have to be more careful of what's in the background of the shot lately…colored arrows popping up everywhere these days. 

Kevin, STILL drooling over that hardware you posted! I've been playing with house screw jacks this week, and they aren't as sexy looking as a wooden screw at all!!! LOL.


----------



## Slyy

Woodcox that is one big haus, fat bottom girl, beefcake…. Etc etc of a bench!!
Some pretty sweet work on those massive legs.

Kevin got screwed today, congratulations!


----------



## Airframer

I purchased a cheap Irwin woodworking bench vise today with my ebucks certificate to put on one of my other 2 utility benches. Will come in handy when sharpening and such I figure. That's about all the workbench action my shop has seen in a bit.


----------



## ToddJB

I need some square bench advice. Here are my square holes.










They go straight down.

Should I chop out small shelves to accommodate square dogs like these?


----------



## richardwootton

Hmmm I don't know Todd, but I want to know the panel's opinion…


----------



## widdle

Todd..i have no square dog experience..But i'll throw out a no vote for bigger notches..there is also options for putting the spring on the side, or back of your dogs…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Absolutely not!

Those dog holes are to be occupied, or not. No middle ground. The advent of square dogs sitting below grade, waiting for use is a recent development, I think (others can and should tell me I'm wrong, and I have no problem with that). Use the dog, then remove and put in a drawer (or tool tray) when not in use.


----------



## lysdexic

Todd,
I really dont think you need to a shelf. I have a shelf for mine (that was routed before glue-up) but all it does is keep them from falling out the botttom. Still, they are not necessary. The is plenty of resistance with that dog style to make the dogs stay put. Just make the dogs the same size or larger than you bench thickness (so they dont get lost in the hole) and yer gud to go.


----------



## ToddJB

That's enough of a consensus for me. Thanks for straightening me out.

Pine mock up.










The booger about this is all the holes are different sizes, so to avoid playing the matching game I'll have to make one for every hole.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Todd- not sure the shelf is mandatory. But on my round dogs I really like having them a bit longer so they can hold in place. Dogs that you have to remove and put back in place are a pain.

These are by far the best upgrade I've done to my bench:


----------



## Pezking7p

Bit of a late start, but I plan to rally yet! Boards crosscut, thank god I bought the sliding miter saw. Now to joint an edge, then rip. Prepare thyself for pics and updates.


----------



## Pezking7p

Because I think it's pretty funny:










What I wouldn't give for a giant jointer right now.


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, compared to my Craftsman 6 1/8", yours is a giant joiner!

To paraphrase an old Barbie Doll, oak is hard. Even with a 14" brace and really sharp RJ bits, it took a lot to drill.









This is gonna take a while


----------



## john2005

Your the man Kevin I swear. Hardcor there.

Lookin at your depth stop, I have one like it only japanned. Is it supposed to be? I'll say yours looks better


----------



## theoldfart

I think the japanned ones are an early type John. I flattened the underside of the bench this am and started doing the leg mortises this pm, arms are a pretty sore. I'm thinking I should stand the top on edge to get some more weight behind the bit. Right now I'm standing over it and using body weight to press down, not very balanced. Glad I made the saw horses stout, between the top and me it's about 360 to 375 lbs.


----------



## john2005

So what's that got you weighing in around 15lbs? Doesn't sound right but if you say so.


----------



## theoldfart

Lets see, bench top roughly 250 lbs or so. I come in at 160 so 410. math is hard;0)


----------



## Pezking7p

That's rough OF. At least it's a hobby 

Progress has come to a halt. Jointer knives crapped out, then the jointer went out of whack after I replaced knives. Turned a 8/4 board into a 5/4 board trying to figure it out. Got about half my boards face jointed though. Then it's edges and planing. Maybe get to a glue up tomorrow


----------



## jmartel

Bandit, if you are still looking for handwheels, I bought McMaster Carr part No. 6033K7. 2 of them for my Craftsman 113.xxx saw. Comes with set screws and everything.


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, not a hobby. A way of life! Bad news on the jointer, were you taking big passes?


----------



## Pezking7p

I'm not going to lie, I was hogging some wood off, maybe 1/16th at a pass. But the blades were shot when I bought the jointer so it's no big loss. I had a spare set on the shelf. I swear, the jointer is the most finicky tool to set up.

You want to come chop all my mortises, Kevin?


----------



## CL810

Kevin, I have to admire a man who drinks his Guiness in a coffee cup.


----------



## richardwootton

Pez, just pull out your trusty #8!


----------



## Iguana

Not a lot of progress on my bench this week, been running around picking out flooring, tiles and the like for the house build. But I do have 4 sections for the top glued up, just waiting for a free hour to get some more done.

Is that some contrast I see?









Decided to use two jatoba strips in the top, beats lifting it back into storage. One carefully placed strip near the middle of the bench so as to make the location seemingly random and the other strip for the dog holes. This stuff has the nastiest grain I've seen:









I took a plane to it to see what would happen. 1/16" tear out going forwards, backward and across. Sharpen the iron, even pulled out the 13K Chosera that I reserve for special occasions. It made a difference - the tearout was only 1/32" deep  I tried the plane I received in the plane swap - it is a 50° with a double iron - and got about the same result with a microscopically set chip breaker. I'm going to have to build me a 60° double-iron plane - with a tote so I can push it - to tame this jatoba when it comes time to flatten the top.

Notice anything different?









Got rid of the cast yesterday. Doc suggested some physical therapy sessions for the wrist, but after I told him I built furniture he said it was unnecessary. I'll be exercising the wrist enough by pushing around 200 pound slabs of wood.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, just tea this time. Do have some dogfish black ipa though.

Dan, my own mortises will be sufficient thank you.

Richard, actually used a 7 up till now, heft & hubris is sharpened and ready to go for the final flattening.

Mark, congrats on shedding the cast, think smoothing the top will be plenty of therapy ( along with an adult beverage or two.


----------



## Airframer

Did some spring cleaning today.. just a quick refresher..


----------



## Pezking7p

Yah buddy. She's got a fancy new coat on!

Got machining for the top done. It comes out to only 17.5" wide…boards were a lot more cupped than anticipated.i think I may pick up some walnut or something to throw in the mix, try to get another 3.5" to get it up over 20" wide.


----------



## bandit571

Had to clean up a work area









Needed a flat place to work on some dovetails….


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, did the same thing. Threw in some cherry to get to 22 1/2"


----------



## shampeon

Laminated a piece of 8/4 red oak to make it flush to the apron for the leg vise.









Then worked on the mortise for the St. Peter's cross. I originally was just going to use a router & bit for everything, but I HATE routers. So loud, so dusty. So I hogged out most of the material with my router plane and finished the sides by burning some electrons with the router and pattern bit.

























This worked great! Huge, curling strips of wood came peeling off. I think it went faster than the electric router, and I could hear the big afternoon party two doors down (lot of Desmond Dekker being played).


----------



## Pezking7p

Kevin, I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'll have to pick up some boards this week.

Ian, that is some pristine routering. Looks perfect.


----------



## ToddJB

Deadman and dogs done-ish

Teaser:


----------



## shampeon

Leg vise screw and hand wheel back from the machine shop.


----------



## john2005

Now thats ^ purdy!


----------



## richardwootton

Damn, that is super nice. Where did you get the wheel and hardware?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ian- that's the same wheel I was thinking about getting from grizzly. 8" or 10"?

And I still don't even own a router plane. (hangs oversized red head).


----------



## shampeon

The hand wheel was from Grizzly (like $15). The vise screw is the Lee Valley end vise screw ($40). The machine shop charged me $50, so all in all about a third of the cost of a Benchcrafted. I probably could have bored out the wheel myself to save some coin, but saving me the time and mess involved were worth it, to me.


----------



## shampeon

Rojo: 8". It was on sale when I bought it.

Router planes are a ton of fun. Git yourself one!


----------



## Airframer

Seriously Red? Router Plane! Get there!


----------



## AnthonyReed

"(hangs oversized red head)" - Haha! Buck up little fella.


----------



## woodcox

Nice Ian. Consider wearing a cup around that speed knob:0









My left cap will be cherry in stead of a very difficult piece of hard maple. Hodge podge theme till the bitter/sweet end.


----------



## theoldfart

WDCX, hodge podge, naw. Intelligently ecclectic!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ian, I was thinking the same thing concerning the benchcrafted. I'm sure they're leg vises are outstanding, but if a guy doesn't want to drop the coin….he's got options. I'd be tempted to make a wood handle somehow.

A router plane will be the next LN purchase. Might have asked for one for my bday, but I gots to save a little jingle for vacation later this month.


----------



## Pezking7p

The benchcrafted stuff is so sweet. The first time I was on their website I was lost in how awesome it was to find a company with such a singular devotion to woodworking bench hardware. Then I saw the prices and cried myself to sleep.

Been thinking a lot about wagon vise design today. AF, I read completely through your blog, can you (or anyone) tell me about their decision to use metal guides instead of wood guides?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, the BC moxon at $150 is more reasonable. The hardware is pretty straight forward, but I'm not aware of anywhere else you can buy handwheels with acme threads. And certainly not to that level of quality.


----------



## Airframer

$24ish was much more reasonable for me… but I'm a tight ass..


----------



## AnthonyReed

"but I'm a tight ass.." - You know Stef reads this thread, right?


----------



## shampeon

It's gorgeous stuff, no doubt, and in general I want to support domestic companies, but man, $300 for a hand wheel and ACME screw/nut/bushing is just a lot of money. I did buy the Criss Cross from them, which seems like a better price for what it is compared to me fabricating something similar.

The Lee Valley end vise screw, on the other hand, is totally cheap compared to buying the parts separately. Pricing out the parts, the 1" ACME screw alone would have been $40, and for whatever reason bushings are twice that. For wagon vise parts, the individual parts are a lot less expensive, so I'm looking forward to seeing Dan's implementation.


----------



## Airframer

Boy am I hoping so Tony!


----------



## AnthonyReed

^Pork chop in front of a starving dog. I suspect his PM's will begin after the game… all drunked up and ready for some cuddle.


----------



## Pezking7p

Ian, I saw that acme bushing on McMaster and said "oh boy that's just what I need". Then saw the price!!! holy cow. I think it's because that bushing is designed to bolt to the floor and have very heavy equipment sit on it.

You can buy your very own acme tap for $150. Only need two buddies and 5' of black pipe (easy stef) to turn the thing.


----------



## Airframer

Actually, now that I think about it… Pretty sure he has abandoned all things workbench related and replaced it with Martha Stewart green appliances and such.


----------



## john2005

First action shots of the bench. Even was nice enough to kick open the door. Practicing dovetails for the next project, a booster for the kido. Based on a design by our own DanK. The dovetails will obviously need some work before I can be nicknamed "Klaus"......


----------



## shampeon

Just another boring night.


----------



## Pezking7p

John, your tiny pins speak to me. I love your benchtop.

Ian: very punny. When you install the vise/st peter's cross, how do you ensure that the cross and the vise screw lie in the same plane? Just accurate machining, or is there some compensation in the hardware that gives you a few tenths of a degree of play?


----------



## shampeon

Dan: According to the directions, you don't set the final captive nut location until the leg vise and cross are mounted. It is apparently important to keep the top wall of the mortise and the mortise floor at right angles, and keep the mortise floor parallel to the leg.

The cross apparently is designed to provide a slight toe-in, and you can tweak it with either shims or deepening the mortise.

But yeah, we'll see how well it all comes together.


----------



## richardwootton

That's what would make me nervous about using the criss cross. I'm just not the most precise guy just yet, and I'd sure hate to screw up a leg vise chop…


----------



## Pezking7p

Ian, thanks for the info. Bench crafted hardware looks badass, especially the cries cross. Hard to resist the urge so I'm living vicariously through you.


----------



## ToddJB

Deadman and Dogs are Done










Thanks for all the help gang.

Here's the blog if your interested


----------



## theoldfart

Todd that son of a beech looks good! Awesome save.


----------



## john2005

Bad a$$ right there Todd. Fer real!


----------



## Iguana

One day, I hope my bench gains that kind of patina.


----------



## donwilwol

Todd, those additions look like they have always been there.


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks guys. I'm pretty pumped about the whole thing.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'm very glad your deal prowess paid off in this way Todd.


----------



## terryR

Heck yeah, that bench is worth so much more than it cost! Awesome patina, 2wooden screw vises, looks like a huge tool tray. AND I bet the ol' timer that built it is smiling right now at seeing it get more use!!!  That's gotta give ya a good feeling inside, Todd.

Awesome!

Recycle, re-use, re-build, repair, restore…stop buying chinese!


----------



## Pezking7p

Todd, that patina makes me hnnggg. Deadman looks like it's always been there. Very very nice work.

Got the first bench top glue up done tonight. I was so worried about how long it was taking me to spread glue I forgot to line up the end of the boards. Bench is going to have to be an inch shorter than planned.


----------



## shampeon

Here's my secret to glue ups.








Spreads it evenly across both surfaces with minimal squeeze out, no drips. Just rinse off the foam roller afterward under a sink and reuse it. And if you forget and it dries? Throw away that roller and use another.


----------



## Airframer

I use a silicone basting brush from the dollar store. That along with a silicone spatula gets the job done pretty quick and clean up is as easy as letting it dry and pealing it off. You do have to trim the bristles a bit but that takes all of 10 seconds.


----------



## theoldfart

Just poured it on from a gallon jug, spread it with a plastic bowl scraper.


----------



## john2005

I got one of those rubber wheelie jigs. Looks like a steam roller. Works awesome so long as you don't start a big glue up and forget to fill it.

In unrelated news, I had kept track of my hours on the bench build and counted them up tonight. 126.5 hrs all told. I started thinking that was a lot till I went back through there and saw where I had rebuilt 2 planes, started a 12 but only accomplished breaking it ( still need to blog that one) as well as all the time setting up and sharpening blades and auger bits. Even had to learn a back bevel for the nasty tear out. Not sure where that leaves me, but somewhere in th 80 s I would guess. Whatever that little nugget of useless information is worth I don't know.


----------



## grfrazee

Just look at it this way John - you spend about 2088 hours a year at your job (assuming 8-hour days, five days a week, and typical American holidays). If you've spent about 200 hours woodworking, that's 10% of your normal work hours. Most of us would probably consider ourselves lucky if we could take that much time for woodworking. At least, I know I would. I think I get maybe 100 hours a year if I'm lucky.


----------



## Pezking7p

Thanks guys. I looked for one of those silicone glue rollers, but Lowes didn't have one (shocking!). I used a plastic putty knife, it worked OK but I had a hard time filling in the voids between glue lines, so I kept going back and trying to fill them in. Basically, I was panicking. Oh well, lesson learned. I should have bought the TBIII.

John, I'm scared of spending that much time on my bench. I was hoping maybe 40-60, but I've already got ~8 and I haven't even glued up the top yet! Hopefully get the top glued and wagon vise done this weekend. Just hoping though.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I figured somewhere around 80 hours on my bench. A good chunk of that was all the effort put into the through tenons/dovetails. People are gonna vary with their shop setup and experience.

Dan- milling and laminating does burn a lot of time. Time-wise, by the time you have a flat laminated top, your over half way done.. The bases don't seem to take as long.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh ya, I bet those foam roller do work pretty well on big glue-ups. I use something that every railroader has a bunch of…..hotel keys (credit card style) that I forgot to turn in. hehehe. Pretty good glue spreaders.


----------



## john2005

I hear ya pez, that sounded like way too many hrs for a bench, but like I said, I did a couple restores, a lot of sharpening and you have to remember, 95% of the wood I used came as rough lumber. And by rough I mean it still had the bark on it. Basically just milled to (very) approximate 4/4 thickness. A lot of time in the milling and a ton of time in the glue up. 
Surprisingly I didn't go through as much as I had thought. Somewhere over 1 1/4 gal. The first gal was slow set and highly recommended for the top and other big glue ups. 
Have fun, you're on your way now!


----------



## CL810

I did mine in less than 80 hours. ;-)


----------



## woodcox

I've been sick with some daycare death for the last week or so, total zombie at work yesterday. Coughed myself awake this morning and from the bathroom I hear "you should stay home today",meh I thought. "You can even take her to daycare so you can rest, she likes it there", sniffle ok maybe. Que evil Lloyd Christmas laugh… 








75 degrees today, perfect for its first trip to the park. 








I had to take 3/16" off the lower half of the apron to be square with the top. 








I started with 60 grit to remove router machine marks from the top and stopped at 220 grit. I sanded the base to 120. 
First time with a new PC 390 low profile ROS, highly recommended. No marks even with coarse grits. Codeine, sunshine and dust made for a good day. Rare that I get stuff done in the daylight. I will be fitting the face vise next.


----------



## Pezking7p

Bench looks REALLY nice out in the sunshine woody.

My handwheel and acme screw are at the "machinist" (eg, with our lead maintenance guy) to get machined tomorrow. I still have not decided how to make my guide for the wagon vise. Decisions decisions.


----------



## CL810

Looking good Woodcox! Can't wait for the finish.


----------



## Iguana

Progressing slowly, but I did get two quarters of the top fitted and glued up:









That's 110 lbs worth of wood plus clamps. I'm a wee bit worried about my shaky sawhorses.

The quarter sections I glued ended up bowed. I'm guessing the individual boards sagged a bit under their own weight while suspended between the sawhorses. And were then glued together, locking the sag in. I thought I was being smart by doing it in sections, but in hindsight, might have been easier to add 2 or 3 boards at a time in a monolithic glue up.

At this point, the sections are too heavy for me to run over the powered jointer with any kind of proper technique, so I'm taking the jointer to them.










The net result of the work for the day:









At this point it is too high to plane so I need to build some supports to get it closer to the ground. I've got the last section to add and then the dog board. Then the fun will really start!


----------



## theoldfart

Mark, I had the same problems. Even broke a stand!


----------



## Airframer

Once mine got that size I clamped a couple parallel clamps to the side to make a base and set it on the floor, straddled it and planed away with a stopper board wedged between it and the wall lol. Was interesting.


----------



## Pezking7p

Looking good, Mark. I decided to glue mine up on my assembly table so that the boards were supported all the way across. However, my attempts to keep the boards lined up failed completely, I'm going to have to take about 1/8" off the thickness of the top to get everything back to flat I think.

Fiancee just gave me a list of things that need to get done this weekend, including new shutters on the house and landscaping. I don't think I'll be getting much work done on the bench


----------



## BigRedKnothead

In 10 years of marriage I can honestly say I've never been given a "to do" list.

Those do look feeble Mark. Be careful bro. This build can't take another broken bone.


----------



## ToddJB

Ha. I need a "to do" list, because what bothers me and what bothers my wife are dramatically different. Without it, I would be unknowingly ignoring things that bug her.


----------



## JayT

I got my first "to do" list less than a year into marriage. I don't think she ever heard of a honeymoon period. 

Actually, my wife is great and very understanding about new tools showing up in the mail, so a list of things that need done once in a while is no big deal. Especially when I know they need done, but have been putting them off to do other stuff. Kinda like Todd's situation.


----------



## Pezking7p

My case is a little different, since this is wedding related work (wedding is in our yard).

Just got my handwheel and screw back. Looks sweet. This weekend I'll make a wooden knob for it and try some flax oil treatment.


----------



## JayT

So Dan's going to be oiling his knob in preparation for a screw this weekend?

Stef and hog will be racing to your place.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^hehehehe.

Mostly giving you crap Dan. It comes back to personality types. I'm the one who gets annoyed with stuff. My wife is so laid back. I'm more likely to give her a 'to do' list.

We got married on my in-laws acreage. It was a scorcher.


----------



## jmartel

I'm pretty sure I have ADHD, so if I don't have a to-do list, nothing gets done. I start like 10 things and never get around to finishing them. My wife is a very organized person and likes lists, so it works out.


----------



## donwilwol

I'm the same way J. No list, no guarantee. Even with the list I'm liable to forget to look at the list.


----------



## ToddJB

ToddJB's ToDo from List MrsJB:
- Clean off stairwell window seal
- Make cover for egress window
- Fix stove
- Baby stuff out of attic

MrsJB's ToDo List from ToddJB:
-ToddJB


----------



## TerryDowning

I ask for lists, but she doesn't provide them.

I prefer to have to do lists so I can just get about what I need to do and where ever possible combine my efforts or order the locations so I'm only moving things around as needed.


----------



## Pezking7p

Happy wife, happy life.

Handwheel teaser. Turned the end of the screw down so there were no threads, then bored it for a split pin.


----------



## shampeon

Nice, Dan. That's going to look great with the oil treatment.


----------



## Airframer

Lookin' Good! Gonna oil it or blue it? I went with bluing but kinda wish I had done the oil thing.


----------



## Pezking7p

Doing the oil thing, I'll pick up some flax oil at the drug store on the way home. I think I'll attempt to turn a little knob on my hand drill, lol. I might document that process.


----------



## richardwootton

I want to see some pictures of this oil thing y'all are talking about.

My "to do" lists include, "what do I want to do, now?" Hmmm maybe that's why I'm not married…


----------



## chrisstef

Funny. My to do lust just became a full blown schedule.










Booked up pretty solid til the end of the month. Sweet. Anyone wanna buy a house? Stream in the back. Quiet. Woodsy. Great neighbors. Wallllnuttttf countertops.


----------



## ToddJB

Friday the 18th is a big day. Demo and lay tile. You taking the day off?


----------



## chrisstef

Yup. Im takin it off. Wifes got that day. Midget to day care.

Hammer down. Huge day.


----------



## woodcox

4/20 is appropriately vacant. "All right"- in my best Matt Mcconaughey. Did you double up on the peeps and Cadbury?


----------



## john2005

Your day columns don't line up. Just sayin


----------



## woodcox

Working this stuff is bliss! I haven't had the pleasure until now. From crushing fir, chattering in rock maple, to gouging curly cherry, walnut is most agreeable for hubris.


----------



## CL810

^ Awesomeness.


----------



## chrisstef

Beast mode WC. And yup its wide open. No work on holidays ya know.


----------



## terryR

Very nice, WC…making me quite jealous! 

To-do list? HA! Now I can see that's why the wife wants me to be retired. My wimpy income as an RN pales in comparison to what I'm worth on the 150 acre farm all week long. LOL! My to-do list is on a 2×4 foot piece of whiteboard, and just keeps getting longer.

The way I see it, when your to-do list is empty, you've outlived your usefulness. 

Although, this week, we've had TWO houses broken into on our country road, so my grizzly prescence alone could be valuable? I'm bad about mowing with a firearm visible, making vulgar gestures to the helicopters that fly within my air space, never waving at passers-by, cursing while I pick up trash along the roadside, or just piling it up in the middle of the road, etc. evil…evil…

LOL.


----------



## DanKrager

LOL Terry. I live at the end of an unmarked private road and still get curiosity "visitors". Two signs have discouraged repeat offenders. The first one is "You have been photographed several times on private property" and my favorite, "NOTICE: The police said I had to put up this sign before I could shoot you." 
DanK


----------



## terryR

^Oh, I like that last sign, DanK, getting out the paints now! Also putting up cameras today…

My idea was, "Please try to break in our home, we love shooting at moving targets!"


----------



## richardwootton

Terry I like your style! It reminds me of growing up on the ranch back in Texas. Always had a shotgun in the truck and most of the time had a pistol on the hip.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

So to all of those who have the benchcrafted leg vise…..or any other leg vise with an 8" cast iron wheel, how do you feel about the size? I'm wondering if I'd rather have a 10" iron wheel.


----------



## DanKrager

OOOooo, be careful BRK. Check to see if the 10" would drag on the floor…! :J)
DanK


----------



## shampeon

Doesn't Don have like a 24" wheel on his?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, Don's got a big one. Ian, it's probably tough to say on yours since it isn't installed yet ehh?


----------



## donwilwol

I love the large wheel. I don't understand why every leg vice ever made doesn't have one!


----------



## laserguy

My favorite thread in the entire forum. I've never seen so many beautiful benches in one place. I have plans to build a new bench later this year and this thread will play heavily in that build when it comes. Thanks to all the members who've taken time to share here!


----------



## Pezking7p

Lol ^^

Ok, made a bit of progress today. More or less chose to copy Eric's wagon vise design.










Two coats of flax oil of the handwheel, it's subtle but very noticeable. I don't think I would bother with the 5 recommended coats. I only did two coats because it was a little blotchy after one coat.


----------



## Pezking7p

Double post.


----------



## Iguana

Pez, is that agave blonde a stealth gloat?


----------



## Pezking7p

Mark, are you admiring my push stick?


----------



## Iguana

The sawhorses were getting way to shaky for my taste. Not to mention putting the edge way too high to be comfortable planing. When I nearly tipped the whole thing, I gave up on using them.

BTW, I looked up the rated load capacity - 250 lbs each. I doubt that's in a world where g = 9.8 m/s^2.

Instead, I built two of these:









Just scrap 1×4 and 2×4 held together with construction screws. The center support is what determines the ultimate height and is also held in place by screws, making it semi-adjustable.

I finally got the third section fitted properly and glued up:









Lowered the center support and fitted and glued the fourth section:









The supports are very stable and ensure the slab won't tip. Net yet sure how I'll get the slab off the supports 

Next up: the dog strip


----------



## Pezking7p

Very ingenious mark. Quick and easy.


----------



## Airframer

Pez - I would add that you may want to drill a set screw into one side of that nut. I have noticed mine has come a but loose and wiggles on the pull stroke a bit. Seems my epoxy has let go with the seasonal wood movement or something. Just a heads up. I'm going to have to figure out how to retrofit a pin into mine while installed somehow lol.

Hit me up if you have any questions!


----------



## woodcox

About 20" long, 7" tall and throat is 3-1/2" to the rods. It still needs a little bit of a camber and eventually some skins. 








A proper handle will be next as soon as I decide on a knob profile.


----------



## Pezking7p

Eric, thanks for the heads up.

Woody, looking nice. You're a machine. Seems like you make good progress daily.

While I'm sure I'm not the first person stupid enough to do this, I am pretty proud of myself. 1/2" chisel to rough things out, then 40 grit to shape/smooth. Sanded 80-400 plus steel wool. Slap some Danish oil on her and voila.


----------



## Iguana

Creative, Pez. How many times did you deplete the battery?


----------



## richardwootton

Dan, how did you chuck that in the drill? And did it just start out as a dowel?


----------



## Pezking7p

I was worried about the battery, but it made it through with plenty of juice. That old drill kicks serious butt.

I cut a piece of all thread, then clamped the wood with two nuts. I chucked the extra length of all thread in the drill. It actually started out as a square piece of wood from an off cut. The hardest part was learning to angle the chisel so it cut without deflecting the drill chuck too much. I must say that this was really hard on the undoubtedly plastic innards of my hand drill.


----------



## john2005

Lookin good on that wheel Pez.

Same on that chop Woodcox.

Boys are gettin er done today. I am realizing that while a traditional handle works, a wheel would be soooo much nicer and faster. I may have to start looking for a wheel to modify.


----------



## john2005

Oh yeah and some weekend action shots. One with the #7 in action and the other of how my boy "helps" with the deadman. Good stuff.



















It's hard to see but all the holes that don't have light showing through have a plastic bolt stuck in it. He must have stuck a dozen or so of those in there. He digs it


----------



## CL810

Way cool John!


----------



## theoldfart

John, your son's a natural!


----------



## theoldfart

This bench top is a mutha to handle


















To do the other edge I had to stand it up and rotate it 









Problem was it out weighs me by 60+ lbs and at 7' its the same height as my cellar ceiling joists! Still need to do the other side sooooo this may take a while (Give Stef a chance to catch up).


----------



## richardwootton

Old fart, I hope you never have to move cause that bad boy is staying with the house. Unless you get red to come over and move it for you…


----------



## theoldfart

i guess at his height he could get underneath it and lift. I'm thinking it's a good thing I've had my children already, tipping that thing on end was dicey.


----------



## LJackson

What is that thing on the end of your brace? Hah, I can't believe I even know what it's called. If it doesn't have a motor, I don't use it.


----------



## Pezking7p

Help, my bench has fallen on me and I can't get up.


----------



## Mosquito

What is that thing on the end of your brace?

Stanley #49 Bit Gauge, or similar from another manufacturer. Acts as a depth stop


----------



## theoldfart

Mos it is a #49. Got tired of drilling so tried the next step just as a diversion


















I must have a pocket of funk in the bench top 'cuz I'm having trouble getting the bit to pull through. The bit is plenty sharp









Once it gets in about 1 1/2" it does fine. Any ideas?


----------



## Airframer

Could be those are softwood augers? I think ones for hardwoods have a courser pitch to the lead screw? I am sure someone will correct me though lol.


----------



## Pezking7p

Dovetail sockets look nice and clean OF. How'd you cut it?


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, the bit is an Russell Jennings 100 made for hardwoods. The ones with a courser pitch, 101, are used for softwoods.


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, knifed the edges and used a dovetail saw for the two angled cuts. Made a couple of vertical cuts with a tendon saw and chiseled the waste out. i flattened the bottom with a router plane and then used an asian pull saw to get into the corners. Finished with a paring chisel.


----------



## Airframer

See.. I knew I had it backwards. Then I guess it just needs a bit more M.A.N. added to it..


----------



## theoldfart

Apparently my 160 lbs isn't cutting it. NO MAS. Iv'e had this bit go through 6" of white oak before. like I said I think I got a funky board in there, the lead screw just strips and I have to just about stand on it.


----------



## Pezking7p

Woof. I don't have half those tools. I need to come up with something.


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, I have a weakness for vintage tools. You could use a fine crosscut saw for the cutting and a sharp long chisel to do the rest, just go slowly


----------



## Mosquito

have you tried wax on the snail of your bit TOF? I've found it to help me when I was having issues with mine too. Helps keep stuff from packing in the threads


----------



## Pezking7p

I'm slowly working on my stable of hand tools. Router plane is a complete mystery to me.


----------



## chrisstef

Have you tried wax on the snail of your bit. If that wasnt such a helpful tip id find some wise remark to really exploit that line. Nice tip.


----------



## DanKrager

TOF, in that picture (keep in mind I have old eyes) the bit looks dull and improperly sharpened at a very steep pitch on the top side. Does the main cutting edge pass the fingernail test? (i.e. does it catch your nail or skitter over it?) It is possible you hit some punk, but it should still pull through it if sharp cutters follow. You have nice crisp spurs.

I believe that these bits should only be filed on the bottom so the cutting angle is the pitch of the twist. This, by design, keeps the cutting edge cutting about the amount the thread will pull it in making a "balanced" tool. I'm not a world authority on the matter, but that's what I've done with my bits when they need attention.

EDIT: Well, all the sharpening advice on the interwebs is contrary. I guess I've been doing it wrong all these years. I defer to Brit! So, why, I ask, has it worked so well?

DanK


----------



## Airframer

Really Stef? Even when it was followed by Helps keep stuff from packing in ? You disappoint me…


----------



## Mosquito

I had thought about that after I posted it, and thought about rewording it, but then figured I didn't care lol


----------



## DanKrager

From Logans Cabinet Shoppe,
When sharpening the cutting lips, it is extremely important to file ONLY the upper edge of the lips, as viewed when using the bit. Filing the bottom edge of the cutting lips, as viewed when using the bit, more often than not, results in reducing the clearance angle of the cutting edge, preventing the bit from cutting. This can be seen as a small secondary bevel on the bottom edge of the cutting lip. Think of it in terms of turning. When turning on the lathe, you want to ride the bevel of the tool to help prevent the tool from catching. In an auger, if the bottom of the cutting lip is filed and the angle is accidentally changed, the bit will basically ride the bevel, instead of cutting. If this has happened to the bit, the only way to fix it is to file the bottom of the cutting lip properly, removing the secondary bevel completely and restoring the bottom of the cutting edge to its original angle.

Nine times out of ten, when someone asks me why their auger bit won't cut, this is the problem. So if you are having problems with bits that won't cut, check the bottom of the cutting lip carefully for a secondary bevel. I'd be willing to bet that it's the problem with your bits as well.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, I think it is properly sharpened









I use a ceramic stone
Mos, i do use paraffin on the screw threads

Dan, look here


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pex- your drill method isn't a far cry from my attempts at shaping stuff on the drill press. Did you have the machine shop tap the wheel for that handle you made?


----------



## JayT

Just saw that our very own CL810's bench project has now gone international.

Very deserving. Congrats.


----------



## ToddJB

Nice CL810 - well deserved indeed.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, pretty cool. Doing autographs?


----------



## LJackson

theoldfart, I think your tool is just missing the electricity part. Hah! I'm such a dork.


----------



## Airframer

I found it helps to go barefoot and get on your knees.. right Stef?


----------



## AnthonyReed

^You know that's right.

Good to see Clayton's masterpiece get more recognition.


----------



## chrisstef

Yea Eric, but that's not a sandwich your making and I cant believe that anyone would ever wanna get you pregnant. Youre a couple degrees off vertical too.


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, I used that pose and all I got was a bruised shoulder! Had better luck with the top on edge clamped tithe old bench and brace against my hip, smaller bruises.


----------



## Brit

Clayton's bench has got it going on. Just sayin'.


----------



## Brit

"Youre a couple degrees off vertical too."

You're a harsh man Stef.


----------



## ToddJB

I think AF is dead on, it's the square that's off. He's a master at compensating.


----------



## john2005

Good to see Andys bench getting the tip of the hat from the master. Very well done bro!


----------



## Brit

*Kevin* - There are five reasons why a Jennings or Irwin patterned auger bit won't cut.

Someone has filed the outside of the spurs instead of the inside, resulting in the spurs scoring a hole that the rest of the auger can't fit through.
The leading edge of the spurs is not sharp enough. This usually results in tearout as the spurs contact the surface of the wood
The cutting edge bevel has been filed at too steep an angle. If the angle is too steep, the auger bit will suddenly become much harder to turn as the cutting edge meets the surface of the wood. If you keep turning the brace, the lead screw will strip out of the wood. The conical thread is a built-in fail-safe feature which helps prevent damage to the lead screw when the cutting edges won't do their job.
The cutting edge isn't sharp enough. The result is the same as in 3 above.
You're turning the brace in the wrong direction. )

This post might help you. There you can see a photo showing the correct angle of the bevel, so you might like to compare it to your auger.

When the cutting edges and spurs are sharp and the bevel angles are correct, you should only need to exert gentle pressure on the head of the brace for the auger to start cutting and continue to cut deep into the wood. It is the lead screw that pulls the brace through the wood, not your weight on the poor old brace. You may however, feel the burn as a result of turning the brace. The amount of resistance you encounter when turning the brace is dependent on the sweep of the brace, the size of the auger and the density of the wood you're boring. I ain't sayin' you won't work up an honest sweat, but this should be due to turning, not pushing.

Having said all that though Kevin, if it is cutting easily for 1 1/2" then the spurs are doing their job and the cutting edges would seem to be doing their job too. So, it could be that piece of wood you're trying to bore. You said it cuts through white oak with no issues. Have you tried it in an offcut of the red oak? Does the same thing happen? If so, it is likely a problem with the auger. If not, it is likely hitting a knot or some other obstruction. When you back the auger out and look into the hole, can you see anything out of the ordinary? Bear in mind that the lead screw won't pull into end grain or punky wood. Good luck!


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, thanks. I will have to test on a couple of cuttoffs. Let you know the results.


----------



## Airframer

Youre a couple degrees off vertical too.

That is a carefully calculated back angle to assist in the holding power of the bench dogs…. or so I tell myself..


----------



## Brit

That was the first thing that entered my head Eric. Can't think why Stef didn't realize that.


----------



## Pezking7p

Nice CL810.

Hands and forearm are killing me from pounding on a chisel for so long yesterday while trying to hog out material for the wagon vise. Sad part is, one of the hands is sore because I smashed it about six times. I had to stop and make a mallet so I would hit the chisel more often!


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, didn't you drill out some of the waste first?


----------



## theoldfart

Well, tried more drilling on some cutoffs and can't draw any conclusions yet. I have two sets of bits









so I tried the newer set and had better luck. I can't see any difference between the bits so not sure why.



























The left bit is the newer one. All I can think of is to get an auger bit file and see if I can improve the edges.

Thanks for everyones input.


----------



## Pezking7p

OF, I though I could whack a bunch out with my 1" chisel. I probably got 15% done this way. The biggest bit I have is 1/2", and no augers, so I tried to chop first. Eventually I gave up and drilled the while thing with my 1/2" brad points but I'm trying to stay true-ish to the spirit of the bench.


----------



## Airframer

My only guess is a different snail shape. If you look at the one on the left (the one that works better) it has a fatter center than the other one? Maybe that made the difference?


----------



## DanKrager

I'm lookin' and lookin' and I still think the cutter is not sharp, at least not all the way across. Right near the screw, it looks terrible on the underside and that "shiner" takes up near half the cutting edge. It's that way on both the bits. 
The left bit blade edge is shining on the outer half of the cutting edge, so it's dull for sure, if the photos are accurate. 
I've checked my bits and the underside sharpening (a no-no) apparently hasn't hurt their performance because I kept the same angle as the original. It has eliminated a problem like what I see on TOF bits.
Thanks for the links, TOF, though I saw all that after I replied! 
DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Is this what you're seeing, Dan?


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, kicker is the one on the left works just fine!


----------



## DanKrager

This is what I'm lookin' at….in addition to the shiny that Smitty highlighted








So is it just an illusion of the photo? It sure looks like the bit on the right should be a winner otherwise.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, I'm going to do a side by side test on three or four different pieces of wood this weekend. I'm also chasing down an auger bit file. This is bugging the hell out of me.


----------



## CL810

Wow, so nice of David Barron to take the the time to notice my bench build. What a great guy. Thanks JayT for letting me know.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Yup. The thing I like about Barron is that he takes as a compliment when we learn from and perhaps imitate his work. As he should.

I finally came up a with a plan I liked for upgrading my leg vise. You guys are a bad influence. A 10" cast iron wheel is on the way. Stay tuned.

Oh, DanK….I made sure the 10" wheel will clear the floor. Just barely though…lol


----------



## john2005

You guys are a bunch of wheel enablers. I'm still riding the fence but have shifted back to the "it ain't broke and works fine so why change it?".....for now…we will see what thoughts tomorrow brings. Just in case I change my mind, where are you getting your wheel?


----------



## jmartel

Say one was inclined to switch to a wheel and had the Lee Valley Tail vise screw. What all would be required for the switch? Just pounding out the spring pin and popping a wheel on with a spring pin?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya John, when I built my bench, I spent my cash on the lumber and figure I could upgrade the vises later. I guess I'm getting around to it. I've noticed I use my leg vise the least out of the three. The action is very slow and needs work. I got this crazy idea to order a big sealed ball bearing to install in the leg…instead of the plastic bushing benchcrafted uses:










As far as the iron wheel, this is the one I ordered:
http://www.essentracomponents.com/sku/BSW-10

I could have had free prime shipping on amazon, but they were out of the 10, here's an 8 />http://www.amazon.com/Morton-HW-8-Straight-Wheel-Diameter/dp/B00GV2UT98/ref=sr_1_8?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1397535686&sr=1-8&keywords=cast+iron+hand+wheel

I nearly got the wheel Ian got from grizzly, but I got hung up on a couple issues. Aesthetically I like the rough cast iron look of the wheels on my benchcrafted moxon. Functionally, I wanted the handle to be flat, not dished. Hope I like it!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jmart- Ya I'm retrofitting the wheel on my LV vise. Like Ian did, you'd just need to knock out the pin and then have a machine shop bore the wheel to fit.

Shoot, if there's enough of us doing it, we should have bought a bit and shipped it around to each other;-)


----------



## jmartel

Do you recall the diameter of the shank on the tail vise screw?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Don't know it yet. Ian might. I'll be taking mine off in the next couple days.

edit- oh wait, I'm talking about my leg vise, not tail vise. But I guess LV calls it a tail vise.


----------



## Brit

I have a question for the esteemed panel. I see most people making Moxon vise add-ons and I wonder why people choose the Moxon over a twin-screw chain driven vise add-on using Veritas or LN hardware. A twin screw chain drive would have greater capacity and you can tighten it with one hand. The Veritas vise can also cope with slightly tapered pieces. So why does everyone opt for the Moxon over a chain drive? Am I missing something?


----------



## JayT

So why does everyone opt for the Moxon over a chain drive? Am I missing something?

We're poor. 

I suppose you could build one using a chain drive, but it would have to be really deep because of the screw length. That kind of defeats the purpose of the Moxon style bench on bench like I built (portability and not taking up much storage space). A dedicated joinery bench like Red's would be deep enough if someone wanted to go that route, but those that have the space with have to answer for themselves.


----------



## Brit

It can't be too difficult to come up with a poor man's chain driven twin screw. Pop down to the local cycle shop and get a couple of sprockets and a chain. Fit them on to a couple of lengths of Acme threaded bar and your almost there.

Joking aside, I was more interested in whether or not people could see any advantage to a twin screw. The only advantage I can think of is greater capacity and the ability to tighten the vise with one hand. Can anyone come up with anything else?


----------



## merrill77

So why does everyone opt for the Moxon over a chain drive? Am I missing something?

First, I don't think everyone does. But lots here do.

I see it as a face vice vs moxon question. Chain drive or not doesn't really affect what you can/cannot do with each. First point that comes to mind is the height. The bench-on-bench moxon brings the work up higher for detail work without bending over. The face vice does not. The moxon can be removed, leaving an unobstructed work surface. Can't do that with the typical face vice. Face vice with a deadman is good for planing edges; moxon offers nothing here. I'm sure others will chime in as well.


----------



## chrisstef

Im smelling a workbench project for the newly updated shop Andy.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Andy, I had the same thoughts about a chain drive. I was attracted to the one handed operation. But one thing I'll note about the BC moxon design….it's much more "one-handed" than you'd think. Once the thickness is set on one side (left for me), I only use the right wheel to open and close/change boards. The jaw pivots in a sense. This BC video will explain. First vid:

http://www.benchcrafted.com/Gallery.html


----------



## JayT

+1 on Red's explanation of the Moxon style working one-handed. That's how I use mine, as well.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Shop made pulls for my joinery bench drawers. That's how I roll.


----------



## DonBroussard

Some awesome work going on here. Thanks for taking the time to document your splendid efforts!

@CL810-Congrats on going international. That bench deserves to be seen globally, so Mr. Barron's mention is really a public service.

@Brit-Maybe even equip the vise mechanism with a 12-speed derailleur for quick changes. Just joking (kinda).


----------



## Airframer

Like the others have said, I actually find the Moxon to be very quick to use and can be used one handed very easily once the thickness has been set on one wheel.

The main draw for me is the simplicity of it. In it's very basic sense it is just 2 bolts squeezing 2 pieces of wood. And I can put it away when I no longer need it. I think a twin screw/chain vise would be too bulky for the purpose of a Moxon type vise.

Now if you were doing a permanent install on say a joinery bench it may be a toss up. The main decider for me again would still be simplicity and cost savings for the same holding power.


----------



## theoldfart

DonB, maybe the electronic Dura Ace!


----------



## richardwootton

I wonder if we could convince Jim to do a chain vise for a Moxon type vise. It would be a nice addition to his chain guide.


----------



## ToddJB

maybe the electronic Dura Ace!

Naw, Andy's old school British - Sturmey Archer internal 3 speed.

Any buddy else catch Red's midget hand?

Seriously though, Red, what process are you using to remove that material? I feel like your picture is trying to communicate it, but my brain is not computing.


----------



## theoldfart

Todd, a purist would use a fixy!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Todd it's all router table work until this point. Start with a square blank, a round nose bit on each side, then a slight round over. Then cut to length and roundover on the ends. Last final shaping and sanding (previous pic).


----------



## ToddJB

Good. I thought you were doing that all with a file, and was concerned.

And Kevin, purist's do… they're called Moxons


----------



## Brit

Sturmey Archer internal 3 speed.

That cracked me up. Back in the day, you were somebody if you had Sturmey Archer gears and a couple of playing cards flapping across your spokes.


----------



## ToddJB

The wife and I have his and hers matching Raleigh Sports from the 60's that rock the SA3's. They're fun grocery getters.


----------



## shampeon

My Raleigh Sports got ganked. Loved that S-A hub, and my waxed cotton saddle bag. *sniff*


----------



## Brit

Nice pulls Red.

Too much information Ian. )


----------



## ToddJB

Ian, bummer. There's a special place in hell for bike thieves. My baby, the one I learned bike mechanics on and built up specifically customized to me, was stolen out of my buddies garage a few years ago… it still gets to me.


----------



## theoldfart

Don't leave any of my bikes in the garage anymore, it'd be like loosing my tool chest. Too painfull to contemplate.


----------



## ToddJB

Keep them safe and sound in your bed, huh, Kev?


----------



## theoldfart

Close! Ones a Ti the other a Carbon Fiber also got a early 80's Olmo w/ engraved Campy SR


----------



## Pezking7p

I used to want to ride bikes, then I got hit by a car while going to get groceries. Girl was driving around crying after a fight with her boyfriend, no turn signal. Sold the bike after I found out I couldn't relax while riding it anymore. If I remember it was a pretty nice gary fisher.


----------



## ToddJB

Nice, Kev

Bummer, Dan

Sorry for the bike derail (see what I did there?), everyone else


----------



## bandit571

Used to ride a few bikes. Don't need the playing card into the spokes anymore, my knees will make about that much noise. One time, had a Hawthorne from Monkee Wards. Ran the heck out of it. Anymore, nope, knees can't handle the pedaling part.

Might, someday, add a layer to the workbench, to thicken it up a bit. Maybe some 2×2s, glue up a bunch, and add that to the existing top?


----------



## BigRedKnothead




----------



## theoldfart

Carnage


----------



## bandit571

Dibs on the 2xs laying there! Might be enough for one bench, maybe??


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Second guessing in the pulls. They look a little clunky me thinks.


----------



## richardwootton

I agree Red. Do you have a lathe where you could try turning some round pulls and see how you like that look? Or maybe the profile is just a little fat on the current pulls.


----------



## richardwootton

Another question for the panel. Has anyone used a wheel with a wooden screw? I like the idea of using a wooden screw and all this talk of hand wheels has got me thinkin' . . .


----------



## ToddJB

I'm down with chunky furniture. I like 'em.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I've got a thing for chunkers too Todd. He he he he he

Ya I made them be beefier than I would for furniture. Gotta be tough for the shop. I think I'm gonna roll with them for now if I hit a mole change in later. There an upgrade from my other shop pulls. Can't say I put much effort into those


----------



## theoldfart

Good news, got the brace bit sharpened and worked like a charm. Dan and Andy, thanks for the guidance.


----------



## DanKrager

Good news!
Did you find an auger file? Where? 
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, used a needle file with a smooth edge. Finished with a ceramic slip. Chasing an auger file now, let you know how I make out in a few days.


----------



## john2005

Hey kev, I think I got mine a lee-valley. Might try there?

Red, I'm thinking a little off the bottom and some darker color would solve your clunk prob. Just my thoughts.

My bikes live in the garage but that's only cause the wife got tired of me dragging them into the house. On one hand there is a lot of coin tied up in tools, but to hit the price level of any but the commuter you have to have a pretty strong back.
Also got hit before, but luckily for me, I did more damage to the guys truck then had to me. Basically just freaked me out and took some paint off the 105 shift lever. Put a body sized send 3-4" deep in the side of his brand new tundra. Since I estimate for a living, it was in the neighborhood of 4000 to him, 0 to me. Coulda been waaaay worse if I was a foot further back.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

if I hit a mole change in later

uhh, If I hate them I'll change them later. Darn google voice…..gotta watch 'em.

Richard, I don't have a lathe. But TerryR is slowly luring me in to that rabbit hole


----------



## woodcox

A start on vise handle knobs turned from the drill press.


----------



## Brit

I that a coin underneath the knob? Looks great.


----------



## mochoa

I'm way behind and catching up. So much workbench action going on here!

Todd, John, Woodcox, Mark, Dan, Kevin… Great show guys!

Red, very nice work on those handles. I like the first ones but I think they would accumulate to much dust. The second version is better in that respect. I think I would go with a basic U shaped pull, I think Matthias Wandel had a blog about making some a while back.

Andy, does your appearance here mean you are contemplating a new bench build for the renovated shop?

Speaking of twin screw vises, I'm thinking of making one with wooden screws. As I look around it seems that all the ones I've found do not use garters so the jaw is lose from the screws.

I suspect the reason is that uneven clamping pressure would put too much pressure on a garter, the forces could be in the opposite direction which could pull the screws out of it chop. Hope that makes sense. Any one see an example with garters?


----------



## mochoa

Answering my own question. I think the only issue is if you clamped on the outside of the screws, it would be working as a sideways leg vise. the opposite end of the chop would want to move towards he bench which could pull the screws out of the garter.


----------



## john2005

^Maur, you NEED to do that! (the twin wooden screw) Mostly cause I wanna watch. For your garter you could always counter sink nuts on the backside of bolts. No pull through there. Get some black coated ones and it would even look pretty decent. Either way, lemme see, lemme see.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Take a little of the bottom ol John boy says. I like it.


----------



## Brit

Maur - I'll get there, but not sure when I'll have the time or the money at the moment. If I get the workshop habitable this year, I'll be happy. By the way, who made those wooden vises?

Red - Looking good.


----------



## woodcox

Andy, yes Canadian dollar coins under all of my knobs. Canuck's had the right diameter for handle and o-ring purchase.


----------



## ToddJB

Woodcox, is that just for style (which it is super rad) or does it serve a functional purpose?


----------



## mochoa

At least your moving in the right direction Andy.

McGuire made those vices.


----------



## woodchuckerNJ

Red, like the derailment analogy… I had to steal th at image.


----------



## john2005

Oh yeah Red, thats lookin good!

Kevin, was just browsing the "Tools for Working Wood" and saw an auger file there too. Hope that helps.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh I stole it too woodchucker. However, this is a derailment I got to help clean up last year. Thankfully no one was hurt. I wish I had a pic of the cases of wine that were thrown a couple hundred yards into a corn field. 









See how I derailed us again;-)


----------



## woodcox

Mostly flash Todd, many have used brass but I dare to be different.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

oh yeah baby.


----------



## theoldfart

John, I'll check it out, thank you.


----------



## Brit

That's gonna look the business Red.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, does the horn button on that thing work?


----------



## bandit571

Looks like a "3 on the tree" from the old car days…

Almost like a 62 galaxie i learned to drive in….

I'm still stuck with an old pipe clamp for the workings in a leg vise. Will have to add some leather to the vise, have an old leather nail bag pouch. Hmmm, might just use that for the "padding" on the vise….


----------



## bandit571

Hmm, a workbench with an air horn????


----------



## ToddJB

Ooohhhh Looks sexy… Gonna keep it bare? I kinda like that color.


----------



## JADobson

Woodcox,
Are you sure that is a Canadian dollar under there? Our dollars look like this:









Yours looks like it might be a quarter


----------



## Buckethead

Gentlemen… You have all been very busy. I haven't logged on in several months, and see quite a bit of activity. If you don't remember, I had begun a bench project, and was cruising right along. Then I landed a job out of town, also got overwhelmed by my lack of design and building my own vice. Suffice to say that I think I bit off more than I could chew. I had one PM, also reminding me that I joined a FF league here, which I did not follow through. Apologies there.

So I simplified. I will be buying ready mad vices, and eliminating feet, and trestles. I've been working and am ready to glue it up, but when I set it aside last fall, I leaned the center of the top against the wall. Now it's bowed. It's about 3-1/4" thick but only just over an inch is Hard Maple, and the rest is oak plywood. I'm wondering if you guys thing a relief cut is better, or planing down the thickness. Bad thing about planing is the grain is opposing in areas, and gouging has been a problem. I don't like the idea of a relief cut either. What's a girl to do?

Top view… Mocked up top (I was afraid to try to fit the sliding dovetailed tenons into a monolithic top, so I just fit those into their own sections. It was still more difficult than I imagined, but got easier with time.)










Here is the fat 1/8 inch bow (crown) in my center/top. 









So… It's great to be back in the saddle, even if a simplified version. That's a whole lotta planing on some hard maple… Which way would you go?


----------



## ToddJB

Those dollars look Looney


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

BH, I will almost certainly be in the minority here, but I would not modify (flatten) the top without letting it sit in its natural state for a couple / three months. 1/8" is nothing. It might move back. Heck, it may move the other way…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, and Welcome Back!


----------



## theoldfart

Bucket, damn glad to see ya boy! Welcome back.

Sooooo got the tools and


















good fit









Close, but no cigar ;-)









Back at it this weekend, need a break.


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks Smitty. I put some stress on it for a few days. No noticeable change. There is also a slight twist. Spiraling. I know better than to lean wood, but I hoped it would be okay… Just this once.


----------



## Buckethead

TOF… That bench is beautiful. Form follows function and in my opinion that makes a woodworking bench among the most beautiful pieces to make. And this thread is about the most awesome thread on the interwebs.


----------



## chrisstef

The easy way out might be farming it out to a company with a drum sander. Good to have ya back brah.


----------



## theoldfart

Bucket, thanks for the compliment. I've been at it since last summer, I think a lot!


----------



## CL810

Kevin, looking sooooo gooood!!


----------



## Buckethead

I am the type who needs to strike while the iron is hot. When I force it, the difference is brought down to a fat sixteenth. More manageable, but still quite a bit of planing. The good news though, is the rails seem to remain straight. This could change, though, because they are under stress.


----------



## richardwootton

Aged flatus, what kind of mortise chisels are those? I've got to grab a set, but haven't gotten around to it yet.


----------



## woodcox

All dollars but not loonies. 1960s - early 80s. Your diameter, edge profile, color and changed with the "loonie". Now I don't feel bad for drillin holes in your wampum


----------



## theoldfart

Richard, the two on the right are vintage pig stickers. One of the mortise chisels is an I Sorby (Punch logo) the other's name escapes me right now. The big sucker on the left is a 2+" slick from Ohio tools.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Buckethead= Glad to see you around again. If I understand your problem, there are 3 options I know of:

1. Hand plane it flat. Takes awhile. Very light passes diagonally to avoid tearout. 
2. Haul the top to a cabinet shop with a wide drum sander, pay them to run it through. 
3. My least favorite, build a router sled to flatten it.

Keep us posted.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jmart- it appears the shaft of the LV vise is like 19mm or 25/32". 









So off to the machine shops I went. The first shop I tried didn't look too busy. No wonder, they quoted me $180 to drill for the shaft and tap the smaller hole for a handle. Maybe I had "sucker" written on my forehead. I said, "I'll pass." The next machine shop was much busier, he said it'd be a week or two…but $50. Uh huh.

Todd- I'm gonna leave it that color for now. It matches my BC moxon nicely. Can't wait to get it back. I think it's gonna be hoss.


----------



## Iguana

I started making dog holes today:









I can see why the round hole option makes sense - square dogs are comparatively a lot of work.

I also had a flat piece of jatoba turn into two pieces of bacon. Not even sure if I can clamp them back together flat. I probably can, just might have to get more clamps.

Blog at 11.


----------



## john2005

Sounds like it was really worth looking around Red! 180 is stupid for that little bit of machine work.

Buckethead, if you opt for the planing route, I would encourage you to set up a plane with a back bevel. I had major tear out due to opposing grain and that tamed it. The other hot setup was to knock it down with the 5, then move the same iron to the 4. Not ideal for most applications, but for this it worked well. 
I do agree with Smitty though. Let it sit, it may just come around.


----------



## WhoMe

So, uh… Red, was that first derailment shot from one of your trains???
Or is that shot of the clean up your doing. You know, Like a kid who spills, they have to clean it up…

Sorry, just wanted to make fun of the pics.

Speaking for derailment… You think you will be any place to see the UP big boy when it goes to the UP yards for restoration? I missed it here 15 miles north of me when they took it out of the museum and rolled it to the LA yard before the upcoming transfer to UP headquarters. 
Hope I will get to see it in the future. 1.2 million pounds of steam engine running down the tracks must be impressive.

OK, back to wood working…..


----------



## dbray45

B-H - I would look at the bow in two ways
1.) cut a relief groove the length of the board in the center of the bow, not more than 1/2 way through, put a few lag bolts through a three good pieces underneath (middle and both ends), 12/4×12/4 onto the top and pull it down - do this in small amounts over a week's time so it won't split. The groove would be about 1/4" wide. This will help with the twist as well.

The other is to create the frame and pull it down gently - like above, without the relief cut and hope it doesn't split.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mike- Nah, haven't been the cause of any derailments. My skivvies are all still clean. Just helped lay new track when that one got cleaned up. 
Here's the UP Steamer Schedule .....for the foamers…lol


----------



## LJackson

Mark Kornell, I think square holes can be done easier. Here's what you do. You decide which board of your top you will have the holes in, and cut that board into smaller pices, then, when gluing it up, you keep those pieces separated by some constant distance. Voila! Square holes. Of course, this forces your holes to be as wide as one board, but you can plane that board down to your desired thickness.

I learned this from Stumpy Nubs.


----------



## Slyy

Somehow I hadn't checked this thread out in 4 days! 100 posts later…..

John I gotta say your bench still amazes me! It is absolutely stunning, not that I've said that before or that I'd say it again!

And Kevin, that too is looking great, your through tenons are gonna be awesome. I've gotta find me a stanley depth stop, seems like it's absolutely indespensible in certain situations.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I missed Kevin's post. Those look exceptional for being done by had bud. Your at the point where I busted out a file and tapered the mortise and tenon a bit. My centavos. Even doing so, I needed a beater block to knock them back out;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Yea Red, that's where I'm at now. Patience grass hopper!


----------



## Buckethead

Agreed, red. I used a rasp saw quite extensively to clean up and still had to beat aggressively. TOFs work looks far cleaner than mine did at that stage, so I'm betting his will fit better. One of mine is pretty sub par, but I forgive me, and will fill with sawdust and glue. 

I'm heading out now to invoke angels and dark spirits alike, in a quest to flatten and glue up the bench. If I don't come back… Know that I fought to the death.


----------



## john2005

I had forgotten to mention to you Kevin, I too think you have about the cleanest mortises around. Lookin real sharp there! Definitly cleaner then mine were.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh mine's got a couple "wedgies" in them as well. I try to remember to keep the cutoff from such pieces…..so a repair or wedge will match nicely.


----------



## theoldfart

Let's see what happens when I ( with help) flip it over.


----------



## merrill77

LJackson wrote: Mark Kornell, I think square holes can be done easier. Here's what you do.

I'm with LJ. I did mine like a box joint: with a spacer peg in a fence on the TS with a dado blade. Had 45 dog holes done in about 15 minutes. 12 min of that was the setup. Using this method, the holes can be whatever size you want, subject to the width of your dado stack.


----------



## merrill77

Buckethead wrote: "when I set it aside last fall, I leaned the center of the top against the wall. Now it's bowed. It's about 3-1/4" thick but only just over an inch is Hard Maple, and the rest is oak plywood."

I don't think the bow was caused by leaning it against a wall. If that WAS the cause, what would have happened if you put it on top of legs? Just sayin'. Far more likely cause: laminating layers of materials that are going to expand/contract with humidity changes in very different ways. Seems to me that laminating plywood with solid wood on one side is asking for trouble. When you veneer over plywood, the experts recommend veneering both sides, because even 1/16" veneer can cause 3/4" plywood to bow. Perhaps if you had an inch of maple on both sides, you might have escaped the trouble?

Even if you flatten the maple side, I fear that you will continue to have problems as the humidity changes throughout the year and the two sides react differently to those changes.

But I'm no expert - my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it


----------



## DanKrager

Right on, Chris. I sort of remember reading the post where this was first assembled ???? and thinking "There's trouble waiting to happen." Looks like it did. Incompatible laminations win every time. You mention a good fix, but how in this case? If it were mine, I'd rip the center section out, either fix or replace it, and put it back together. It's nice looking….
DanK


----------



## Buckethead

Merrill, your point makes perfect sense. Dissimilar materials will expand and contract at different rates. Since I don't have the maple to spare, I'll just have to chalk it up to experience. There is a bit of good news. Last year I bought a Miller Falls 14C from BRK. He was kind enough to put a camber on the iron for me, and my intent was to use it for the exact purpose of flattening wide, laminated surfaces. (Scrubbing?) I saw one of those rock star woodworkers (I can't recall which) doing it on a video, and it made sense. Glad I remembered that. Flattening is proceeding very well, and as Red suggested, approaching at angles minimizes tear out. I might even be enjoying this. So whether I have future problems will have to wait, and for now, I'm beginning to get that good feeling. Quite the opposite of the feeling I had when I set it aside. It's been haunting me every time I go into the garage.


----------



## Buckethead

That's two votes for big trouble ahead. Now I'm worried. Looking at what I'm planing, its clear the unit bowed both length and width wise. A dome. Plywood shrank, maple was more constant?

Edit: thinking it through, I could provide relief cuts in a grid making each plywood section 6×6 or 8×8. That seems like it would work as expansion joints. The ply is only there to provide mass. The outer rails are 8/4 stock ripped at 4". There is beef there.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

There you go BH. Here's a staged pic to demonstrate flatting a benchtop. Starting with the jack in the back taking off the high spots. Then the jointer(if you have one) diagonally. Last the jointer long ways…..and a smoother if your anal. 
You just try to minimize tearout, but with laminated grain going every which way…it's tough. There' s fair amount of tearout in my benchtop. And I don't care.


----------



## Iguana

merrill77, your method is different than what LJackson was suggesting.

LJackson, the problem I have with that method is the need to get all the individual pieces aligned (and keep them that way) during the glue up. Not only aligned, but spaced consistently.

Merrill77, I wanted the stepped hole so I could have a head on my dogs. I did waste most of the dog hole away with the TS, just used the router to finish off the profile. Except the end holes, too much board hanging over the edge of the saw. Used the router to do all of those.

45 dog holes? What were you making?


----------



## Buckethead

There was a time when I would have mocked anyone playing with wood/tools in his garage on a Friday night. Alas, no more. Despite my newfound concern over having laminated maple to plywood, I pressed onward. I'm actually quite pleased how simply the top flattened out. Planes really work. Who knew? I've hit it with the sander, and other than a couple gaps, I couldn't be happier. Will fill those with glue and sawdust, with a shim going into the sliding dovetail at the most noticeable gap. So now to cap off the ends. Dovetails? A single sliding dovetail? Glue on a breadboard?

Decisions…


----------



## theoldfart

"Decisions", same here BH.


----------



## Buckethead

I've really destroyed the garage too. I have lot of cleaning to do. Cleaning time is contemplating time.


----------



## theoldfart

With beer of course!


----------



## Buckethead

Does my benchtop resemble a bowling lane?


----------



## Brit

STRIKE! I mean, not in the slightest. Keep up the good work.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

BH- Glad you were able to plane it flat. 
Whatever you like on the bench ends. But if you go with breadboards, don't glue them. Remember that top will still have some seasonal movement. You can check my bench blog if you want to see how to peg a breadboard. Or you can bolt it with elongated holes.


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks for the tip, Red. I think I'll go with the breadboards. A sliding dovetail seems like a tough way to go. 4" was tough enough. 20-1/2" might kill me.


----------



## WhoMe

Red, figured you were one to keep 'em on the tracks….
Thanks for the link to the big boy. Will try to get out to see it leave its starting point. Yea, I'm a part time foamer….

And dang you guys and your awesome benches… Some day I will be able to start one myself. Heck, all I need is space, money, wood and TIME…. because I don't want it taking me a year to complete it…


----------



## theoldfart

I resemble that remark.


----------



## Buckethead

Mine is going on a year. I think I first put a board to the planer last July.

I also have a confession to make. I decided on bread boards, and got to work immediately. I came back and read BRKs warning against gluing them directly. Something I have seen before, but in my exuberance, forgot. Well… I had already glued them on. I felt so stupid. So there's that. For some reason in my mind, I'm simply applying veneers, rather than woodworking. A mindset, I suppose. Hopefully, I can get past that.

This is a workbench, crafted from materials that are over my pay grade. It isn't that I was unable to afford them, but that I don't have the experience with fine woodworking to truly justify them. My years of working as a framing/trim carpenter seem to embolden me at times when I should slow down. I tend to want instant results. I need some patience…NOW!

But all this can be changed… I can cut those off and redo them. Will I?

So much about this workbench is kicking my a$$, but for some strange reason, I'm enjoying it anyway.

Perhaps I should have built this in pine, but I wanted to build in hardwood, so I did. What better place to make mistakes during a learning curve than on your workbench or other shop furnishings?

Some things I have learned. Motion. Hand saws work really well. But not at first. By the time I was on the last of each type of joinery, (sliding dovetailed tenons, mortise and tenon) each started looking better.

Hard maple is hard. Walnut is like butter. It was definitely easier to work the walnut, but working in the same vein, it could be damaged more easily.

Through tenons. Having passed on some elements I had wanted for the sake of expedience and simplicity, I really wanted some exposed joinery below deck. Through tenons are far less forgiving than blind tenons, for obvious reasons. An eighth too short? Mortise get gouged in a spot? No sweat on a blind tenon. I botched one of my through tenons to the point where I cut it down to two inches, and created a "plug" for the exposed portion. It really bothered me when it happened, but now that it's over, and the plug in, I don't find it distracting. I really should have taken pics, perhaps as a "what NOT to do instructional" but there are some really good woodworkers here providing great knowledge, so until I can offer more than mistakes, I'll continue to watch instructionals from others.

Sliding dovetailed tenons. I hope I'm using the right term here. These were a bear. A mama bear with infant cubs. Tip toe. It was actually the element that drew me to the workbench build. I'm no visionary. I am not singleminded in purpose. Woodworking is not "in my blood". I simply saw some of the benches here, and those legs dovetailed into the top and said YES. WANT. So off I went.

Now I go into the garage and view my bench. Breadboards glued on. Hard maple laminated to plywood on one side. Not considering wood movement has been my weak spot. Part of me is regretful, but I have always been the type to jump in and learn from mistakes. It can be painful, but I'm not sure this old dog will change in that regard. As long as I am learning, I'll be content. Thanks for the advice guys… All of you are good at remembering names vs avatars, and always remember to mention everyone in the thread. I need to improve there too. In case you guys forgot, my name isn't really buckethead. It's bucket. I just think buckethead sounds more regal.


----------



## theoldfart

Great post Mr. Bucket.


----------



## Pezking7p

Kevin, no time for posting. You have a base to build!!!


----------



## Pezking7p

Teaser:


----------



## Buckethead

Dan, please tell me you have a giant mortising machine. If you did that by hand, my ego is going to be even further damaged. It loos fantastic.

Oak and cherry?


----------



## Buckethead

On second look, I see it is exactly one ply thick. I feel a little better now.


----------



## Pezking7p

Hahaha, yah it's red oak and cherry, but I think my lumber supplier slipped in a board of white oak on accident. While the slot for my wagon vise is just a break in one of the boards, the track for the drive block is cut by hand and almost the same size.


----------



## Buckethead

So my haste made an opportunity to learn, and correct. I really wanted to consider the breadboards done. Truly. Srsly.

But they aren't. Not correctly anyway. So I bite the bullet. I'm removing them and correcting it.

Two flat surfaces will mate, no? Well not if they are bucket flat.










That gap on a breadboard? Can I let that go? Especially considering incorrect installation of a bread board bound to fail in the future… It must be removed. The silver lining:










Having the breadboard attached mates it to the butt end of the main table. In theory it should work like jointing two pieces of stock at once. My little laminate trimming Bosch is hanging tough, but complains if I push her too hard. Okay…. Back to it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Or is it "Ms. Bucket." An earlier post stating "what's a girl to do" had me wondering. Not that I give a rip if another woodworker is male or female, but at least we'd address you correctly.

Anyway, your not the first and won't be the last woodworker that bit off more than they could chew. This craft will teach you patience whether you want it or not. And not understanding and allowing for wood movement has got to be one of the most common mistakes I see. Part of the learning curve.

Sorry my reply's were too late to save a headache. Looks like your on the right track now. I'm still confident you'll have a bench you enjoy.


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks Red. I'm actually male, but nearly gay, if that helps. It's the whole "sex with men" thing that turns me off though. That's where I draw the line. (I love me some show tunes and Cher, though)

I digress.

I'm certain this bench will serve me, despite my mistakes. It really is looking good too. Blemishes notwithstanding. The beauty of the wood is the attraction. I got those bread boards off, using a Japanese pull saw. Using those for big cuts like this is almost like meditating now. Building stamina for various motions is the hard part, and correcting mistakes is an opportunity to do so with the saw. It cuts really cleanly, and I'm building confidence with it.


----------



## CL810

*Where oh where is Stef??*


----------



## ToddJB

Where oh where is Stef??

I'm sure hard at work finishing up his bench.


----------



## JayT

Then at his historical bench work rate, we won't see him for at least a year.


----------



## Pezking7p

Can someone advise me on this build order:

1) build base
2) use assembled base to lay out mortise locations to attach base to benchtop
3) cut mortises in benchtop
4) use mortises to mark legs for tenons


----------



## Slyy

BH gotta say that made me laugh! Glad to see that bench coming along! Seems silly, but that wood movement thing ain't something I ever thought about before I started hanging around LJ's.
Yeah, as Clayton said, better watch out when Stef shows up!

WhoMe, I'm in the same boat. It was this very thread (Rojo's bench even) that lead me here to LJ's a newfound love for the hobby. But I still have yet to make almost anything, let one a bench. I'm sure I'll get to it eventually. Just know you ain't the only slacker there.

Shameless repost from the restoration thread, but did finish cleaning up a Wilton vise yesterday.
Thanks to Shamp it's also got a functional quick release nut. So I may not have a bench but I do have a vise to build it around, ha!!


----------



## Pezking7p

Vise looks great jake. Even painted her.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pez- there are a couple ways to go at it. Either make the top to fit the base, or the base to fit the top.

I prefer to make the top, then fit the legs, then use that to scribe the stretchers.


----------



## Mosquito

I like Red's approach too. Top, Legs, Stretchers.


----------



## Pezking7p

Oh I didn't think to make the stretchers last. So you cut the leg tenons first and mark the mortises based on the tenons?


----------



## Iguana

Pez, I have that question too. I'm going to use a blind M/T joint to mate the legs to the top instead of the dovetailed twin tenon. It is pretty critical to get the front of the legs and the edge of the top coplanar, so I'm thinking I'd cut the tenon first and use that to scribe the mortise. Seems more accurate than making the mortise first.

Finished my dog board. After cutting the dog holes, there was enough flex in the board that clamping pressure forced it straight.









Blog entry here


----------



## theoldfart

Top first, then legs, finally stretchers.


----------



## Brit

Pez - Not that my opinion counts for much because I haven't built my bench yet, but I would build the top first and set it on a couple of saw horses. Then you can use it to build the base. Regarding the leg tenons or the top mortises first. If you think about it, you can't mark the tenons from the mortise very accurately because before you've cut the tenons, there is wood all around them and with the mortises in their correct position on top of the legs, you won't even see the mortises. If you cut the tenons first, then rest the top on them, you can easily draw or scribe around the tenon. Just my opinion, but that's how I would do it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mortises first….or tenons first? Kind of a preference thing. My machining habits of M&T joint have me doing mortises first nearly all the time. But I'm thinking tenons first would make sense for most people on bench legs.

Either way, if you do mortises first…bore the mortises a little undersized so you can custom fit. 
Tenons first….leave em a bit oversized….then trim to fit.


----------



## theoldfart

I traced the tenons onto the underside of the bench tops and transferred the limestone the top.


----------



## Pezking7p

Mark, dog holes look great. Also, your top looks very well aligned. I've lost about an 1/8th during glue up so I'm pretty jealous.

Thanks for all the input guys. Tenons first it is. I'm going to take on the dovetailed tenons because I think it's a very attractive feature, but I already know this is going to be the most challenging thing I've done to date. My plan is to keep calm and build on. Headed to Wisconsin for work for the rest of the week, And the wedding is in just 4 weeks, so I'm guessing there won't be much bench progress for the next 5-6 weeks. I just hope I don't end up like Stef.


----------



## Buckethead

Mark, your shop is as clean as your workmanship. I get a little intimidated by the level of craftsmanship sometimes. Something to aspire to.

Dan, the vise looks great. I botched my bench by placing the legs too close to the ends of the top. Not sure how I managed that.

I'm thinking the Veritas double screw chain vice might be a good solution.

Having "free built" every project in my past, developing a plan and sticking to it is another area where I need improvement.


----------



## Iguana

Bucket, that's just convenient choices of camera angles and judicious use of Photoshop 

Pez, the pictures don't show it, but I used short clamps on the glue lines at the ends of the boards to keep them aligned during each step of glue up. The short clamps got removed as soon as the rest of the clamps were in place. It seems to have worked.


----------



## Buckethead

Okay… Breadboard gluing powers… DEACTIVATE: 









A little router work:










The dry fit:









Needed to touch it in a couple spots:










Did I mention I got a shoulder plane today? Not a Lie Neilsen, but a Wood River. Poor mans luxury. (Still far from inexpensive) I don't know how I have survived these decades without one. What a difference.










So yeah… The maple plugs in the walnut might be a bit over the top. (Not trimmed flush yet, obviously) I can drill those back out later and replace them with walnut, but for now, I'm liking the contrast.

In one of the earlier photos, you can see three 5" lags with washers. This was my weapon of choice for attaching the breadboard. Heck, I even drilled pilot holes to ensure no malfunctions.

Not so fast. My drill bit was 4". What the heck… I'll just drive them the rest of the way… I've got an impact driver. Right? Riiiiiiiight… They call it hard maple for a reason. Broke the first lag I drove. Tried to drill it out, and made some progress, but then the bit slipped off the lag, and into the wood. No go. So I made some filler dowels out of scrap, and used 3-1/2" deck screws and washers in lieu of the lags. Worked fine. Real breadboard. I feel better.

I will also peg it through the top, and I have a smaller walnut dowell, but I think the plugs may be less conspicuous, so maybe I'll wait. I don't want to get carried away with the polka dots.

So… There is my day at the dog races…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice save Bucket.


----------



## woodcox

Mark your bench is truly going to be a beautiful piece of work. Your progress is outstanding.

Dan it is always cool to see a wagon come together. Looking forward to your strategy. Seems like a lot to take in to consideration before making a move.

I think the maple caps look good bucket. Those dowels will darken when the end grain sucks up the finishes. I really like all the contrast you have put in it. Betwixt the top, legs and breadboards it all looks great put together.


----------



## terryR

Bucket, thanks for sharing your woes. So sorry to hear of all the extra work, but you did a fine job recovering! I'm pretty sure I'll never glue a breadboard after reading all that. 

Your bench is turning out great!

Also, would love to hear your opinion of the WR shoulder plane after you get a lil more time with it. I really like the style of the plane.


----------



## richardwootton

Here's a quick question for the panel. How long is your bench? I have been working off of my beater bench top on a make shift base for a good while now, and it's a bit over 7' right now, but when it comes to my new bench build I don't think it would be practical to have a 4" thick by 7' bench. What do ya'll think?


----------



## theoldfart

Funny thing, my new bench is 4" thick and 7' long. I wanted something with a lot of mass. My current bench is too wide and not long enough and moves all over the place when i'm planning and chopping mortises. Plan out what you need based on what your experience is, what you plan to do for work, and what you would do differently with the new one.


----------



## woodcox

My temp bench was a twobutwelve with a vise mounted to a wall. This left me with depth dreams. When finished new bench is 33 deep and lil over 60 long which is a lot of realestate for clutter. It is just under 3" thick but with depth came mass with out the length. Found I didn't need anything much longer than 5' but my twin screw gives me another 20" work with.


----------



## CL810

Richard, if you have the shop space go with the 4" x 7'. And you would not regret 7.5' or maybe even 8. If I have my moxon vise on the bench and keep the end with the leg vise clear, I have little space in the middle and it is 7' wide.

But it's your bench and your shop so it has to be what works for you.


----------



## JayT

My bench is about 6' long. If I had the room, another couple of feet would be nice.


----------



## donwilwol

I'd also make it as big as you have room for. I'd make sure you have plenty of room to work all the way around it.


----------



## john2005

Mines just over 6 1/2 and I could use another foot at times. Just don't have the space for more so it is what it is. As stated already, go long as you can


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yep, big as you have room for. Mine's 8'. I wish it was 10'.


----------



## Airframer

Mine's 8". I wish it was 10".

There.. fixed it for you..


----------



## richardwootton

^LOL! There goes Red bragging about the size of his "bench" again…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

hehehe….oh that's right. That's the only reason I can fit on it. 









Big pimpin….spendin cheese.


----------



## Pezking7p

Damn that's a long bench. Mine will end up about 7' long and 3 3/8 thick. Red how thick are your stretchers?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I remember I saved a real squirly grained board for the stretcher. Laminated about 3×3". 









Check out the neighbors Napoleon Dynamite boots. Wicked cool.


----------



## LJackson

What is the purpose of the endcap/breadboard? Jord's Wood Shop goes into great detail on adding this to his workbench, and I see a lot of benches with them. Is this necessary to keep the lamination stable?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I don't believe additional stability is needed for a benchtop laminated this way. Its mostly for aesthetics.

Now for something edge glued, or s slab top….a breadboard would help.


----------



## Buckethead

Part of the reason is in allowing for simpler installation of a face vise. If the breadboard is taller than the top is thick, the vice screw(s) can go through the breadboard, and under the top. It also makes a top look beefier than it often is. I do like the end grain showing though, and might have been better off using that method, and just adding to face boards within the face vice. I'm thinking of getting that Veritas twin screw vice which a chain connecting the screws. For that, I'll need a bigger breadboard than I have now. (Min 6" tall)


----------



## LoriF

*BRK* - Sexy! Certainly makes this girl's heart go pitter-patter and you're kinda cute yourself.


----------



## Iguana

Richard - what DonW says - as big as you have room for. Mine will be 8' x 25 1/2" x 3 7/8". Not going to quite make my 4" target.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

LOL Lori, bondo poses are supposed to be goofy;-)


----------



## Iguana

The dog board stayed straight after I released it from clamps, so I glued it to the top:









My dad was by the shop today and I had to explain the wagon vise concept and why I was leaving the one board so much shorter than the rest.

Decided to see what the top would look like when finished, via some mineral spirits:









Cell phone pic doesn't do it justice, the QS surfaces in both the cherry and jatoba glow. I'll need to use my real camera when taking the finished shots.

Finally got my drum sander running again. Haven't needed it since I moved shop, but am working on a project that needs sanded boards so it was time to do the maintenance and fire it up. Got the rollers aligned to within .001" over the 36" width.

And yes, I'll be using the sander to do the initial flattening of the top. I love my planes, but I'm not stupid about them 

Just for Bucket, I cleaned up the shop a bit today. Even waxed the cast iron surfaces.


----------



## terryR

Yeah, I rekon BigRed is kinda nice-looking…never really looked before…I was drooling over that massive bench!

+10 to having as large a bench as you can afford, or shove around the shop. Mine is only 5' long, and the first chore everyday is to clean up from yesterday's project to make room for today's. Adding the Moxxon really shrinks the size of my pine bench…Cannot wait to break ground on the new shop, and fill it with shop-built cabinets!

Mark, how awesome that you get to explain vices to your Dad! Wish my Dad were still around…I KNOW he'd love massive benches built by hand. Your top looks great. And your shop, too.


----------



## JayT

Red, since we have determined that you are actually only 40" tall, that makes the bench what, 4' or so?


----------



## CL810

Sexy! Certainly makes this girl's heart go pitter-patter and you're kinda cute yourself.

Lori, Lori, Lori….. you have no idea what you have done….. It would probably be a good idea to move and keep off the internet for at least a year.


----------



## LJackson

Maybe we should all take some pictures lounging on our benches.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

LJackson- many of us have. You'd have to go back in the thread a ways to learn what a "bondo pic" was….and the goofiness that ensued.


----------



## Mosquito

And I may have all of them bookmarked…


----------



## Mosquito

It all started when someone found this one on the internet, the "Roubo Chick"










And then one thing led to another, and Bondo posted this one










And the rest is history, as they say


----------



## Buckethead

The original Bondo is hard to top. (SWIDT?)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ooooh roubo chic. Skyrocket's in flight. Duh dun, duh dun…..


----------



## richardwootton

It's a good thing we've got Mos around to randomly post the picture of that blue haired Betty!


----------



## Mosquito




----------



## donwilwol

Hey, I just realized she's actually sitting on a bench!!


----------



## richardwootton

Red after readin your post I've had that damn song stuck in my head all freaking afternoon!


----------



## ToddJB

Richard, was your afternoon a delight?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, the wifey hates it when I start singing that song. "It's not a great song. It's a song about a 'nooner'." LOL

For those in the dark.


----------



## richardwootton

Tod, it woulda been a whole lot better with a "nooner"!


----------



## Slyy

I do recall a fairly accurate recreation of the original "chick on a bench" pose as well…...

Blue wig almost mandatory, or a good photoshop blue crayon!


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, there's that… who's up next?! lol


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Hello I'm new here. Been lurking for a few years and finally decided to register and post some projects for public embarrassment and follow on harassment by the experts. When I posted my new workbench project someone suggested I post it here in the smack down as well. Take a look at the project page if you like the teaser below.
"http://lumberjocks.com/projects/100294" 








Thanks for looking.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Effing Mos….

That picture still makes me chuckle.


----------



## john2005

^ I know right.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Oh, and welcome Captain.


----------



## ToddJB

Now that I'm at a computer I could watch the video Red posted in hopes that it was the Anchor Man rendition, but no. Red, what the hell is that? Hahaha.

Mos, that's awesome. Hadn't see that before. How did you get the same girl to come over and sit on your bench?


----------



## terryR

Welcome aboard, Captain. I like the mobility and extra storage of your bench…BOTH of which I lack completely. Oh, I'm afraid there's some young whippersnapper lurking in your shop! Better get a block plane for him for His next b-day!  A purty red one!

OK, That Does It! I'm off to fleaBay to find a blue wig…


----------



## Mosquito

lol Terry mine was like $3 and took around 3 weeks to ship from China lol

Welcome Captain


----------



## theoldfart

What kind of jackass would wear a blue head piece?


----------



## Buckethead

TOF…. It is hard to think of you as old, despite your screen name. I'm thinking you are under 40. Your wit is too youthful, and you understand all the internetisms. A ruse, perhaps?


----------



## theoldfart

just a ghost in the machine


----------



## LJackson

I'm glad someone else refreshed this thread with the original pictures. There's no way to go through over 10,000 posts. No in this forum, not in any forum.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Todd- never heard "afternoon delight".....classic. I first heard in one of my fav movies.


----------



## ToddJB

Oh I know the song… but the song was well before music videos. My shock and amazement was the actual video that someone decided to match up to it.


----------



## SugarbeatCo

So it begins..


----------



## Buckethead

Wow! Nothing like a fat stack of 8/4 stock stickered and ready for action. Happy to see another new start.


----------



## cdaniels

this is a really really ametuer question but i've always wondered what the square cut outs in the table are for


----------



## theoldfart

They're called dog holes. A few different fixtures, dogs and holdfasts, fit in the holes to help with work holding. Some of the folks here can post pics since my bench is not done yet.


----------



## theoldfart

Just a quick post to thank Andy (Brit) and DanK for the advice on sharpening auger bits. Just got the file, used it on a 16/16 RJ and it blew right through red oak like butter! Also watch Brits video on sharpening bits, takes all the guess work out of it. Thanks Andy


----------



## BigRedKnothead

cdaniels- check out lysdexic's bench for a good example of square dogs and their use:


----------



## Slyy

Haha Mos! Was hoping you'd throw that back out there! Epic Bondo for sure!

Captain welcome to LJ's and nice work on that bench.

SBC, that's a phat stack of wood hanging out on that shop floor! Looking forward to seeing your build. A lot of sting work going on around. Can't wait to join in myself.


----------



## CL810

cdaniels asked about square holes which sent me looking for a photo I took using a gramercy holdfast with a round hole to post an "opposing" point of view. Never found it, but spent a half hour looking at pics. I swear, somebody sends me the wood I'll build the bench. Nothing better than a bench build.


----------



## Sawdustmaker115

Hello, is it ok if i pop in over here?
I just started working on a small bench and am working on the top and I think I'm going to be ready to laminate the top together tomorrow, so my question is how do i make the tail vise? I just want to be sure how I'm going to install it before i put the top together because I want to make sure I'm going to have enough stock to make it with. I have this vise
Thanks!


----------



## SugarbeatCo

Did you check out the installation instructions on the woodcraft ad? Seems pretty straight forward..


----------



## Brit

You're welcome Kevin. Glad it worked out for you.


----------



## LJackson

CL810, if you weren't so far, I'd send you the wood!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ditto Andy.

Machine shop called. I know what I'll be working on this afternoon.


----------



## john2005

^Sweet diggity


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bearing is installed in the leg. Had to do some of it by hand….wasn't real pretty. The bearing is a funky metric size. It's in there and the action is much better. 
Before:









Back from the machine shop. 



























Here's to hoping I don't jack up the piece of cocobolo making a knob on my drill press. 
Also need figure out some sort of "hub" piece.


----------



## CL810

^ Man oh man, that's gonna be slick!


----------



## Brit

Now that's what I call an upgrade.


----------



## theoldfart

3.5 mortises done









Should be fitting the legs this week I hope


----------



## Buckethead

Those look so freaking tight, Kevin. I shimmed the worst of mine, and it is on what I intended as the front. There are a couple blemishes in the walnut part of the back of the bench. I'm thinking the blemishes are more acceptable for the front.

Moral of the story? Take the time to get it right the first go.

Looks like some quality shop time.

Red, is that a benchcrafted wheel?

Another question, rather seeking suggestions. I want to make that nice scroll cut on my vice jaw, much like CL810 has pictured above, but only have 4 inch scroll saw capacity on a Milwaukee portaband saw. (Bought it some time ago for field cutting decorative tails at eaves, arbors, and the like) I don't have a real band saw. Any ideas?


----------



## richardwootton

I like how Red is keepin' it classy with the Bud Ice!


----------



## donwilwol

Dark beer and wimpy little wheels. I'll never get you guys.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya like my *********************************** beer? LN's got all my beer money….and they're about to get some more.

Bucket- that's a redcrafted. I bought a standard 10" cast iron wheel to install on my lee valley vise. 
Ya lost me with scroll saw though. I don't see where Clayton would've used a scroll saw.


----------



## Buckethead

Perhaps I used the wrong term. Bandsaw, but I said scroll cut. It's just a rounded cut on the edge/face of the vice jaw rather than just lopping it off square or adding a chamfer.


----------



## DanKrager

Bucket, that's what planes are for also… maybe a little filing and sanding.
DanK


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks Dan! I need to find reasons to use my planes. It did not occur to me to use the to round something over rather than flatten/straighten.


----------



## Airframer

Block plane + Spoke shave + chisels and rasps will get you pretty far. Just remember when working cross grain you want to work toward the middle from both sides to prevent blow outs


----------



## woodcox

I forget how he wasted the bulk off but most of his tools used can be seen on the bench. I believe the shoulder plane defined it. I asked and he obliged his methods. I may try it for my end vise, undecided.


----------



## john2005

Kevin, lookin good. For a pic of a nice wheel see Red's post.

Red, lookin good. For a pic of good beer see Kevin's post.


----------



## CL810

+1 to what Dan said.

Bucket here's the steps I would use if I did not have a bandsaw. First, draw the lines of the desired outcome on your chop. Next, use a back saw to remove as much of the waste as reasonable.

To make the shoulder you need to actually start it by knifing the line. Then use your chisel to create a small shoulder. Then use a shoulder plane to create the full shoulder.

Lastly, bring out your rasp and sanding block.


----------



## woodcox

CL810, I just noticed how deep your throat is. Did you need to camber the chop? I get a slight under rack upon heavy clamping on my woodriver vise.


----------



## woodcox

I just fitted my handle. My mdf template must have been green and shrunk,seasonal movement , my knobs turned out much smaller than on my end vise. Goin with that.


----------



## CL810

WC, I did not and I haven't noticed any under racking.


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks CL810. I have everything I need to use this method. I actually thought to use a rasp, but it seemed like a lot of work. Could eliminate much waste prior though and then finish. Thanks for the responses!


----------



## theoldfart

Next up legs, HOWEVER going bike ridin' tomorrow. Legs later.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Uh- huh!!

Got the cocobolo knob done. I did it on the drill press….and yes it was a bear. Turned out pretty well. Sneak peek:









It occurred to me after I started that someone could use an old bailey handle plane knob for this. Probably tall. I held one up and it looked pretty good. 
Anyway, thinkin about a piece of cocobolo for the hub cover.


----------



## DanKrager

That center medallion would be a good place for a panic button, an emergency shut off, a "That was easy" button, an "Oh Sh!t" striker plate, or a family crest maybe…
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

hehehe….. ya a guy could do some fun stuff if he had some carving tools and skills.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice, Rojo. I don't think I'll ever graduate past this…


----------



## Buckethead

How far down from the top did you guys put the screw for your leg vise? I'm thinking 10" leaves plenty of room for larger stock, but looks a bit low. Thoughts?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop




----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, if you could would you have the screw any higher/lower? I still have time to move mine. My concerns are having plenty of vertical clamp room vs not reaching down too far for the handle.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I've not felt the need for it to be lower. Center hub just touches my extended middle finger when I stand at the bench, bending to tighten is easy. Hope this helps.


----------



## jmartel

Buckethead, mine is between 9 and 10" down.


----------



## john2005

I put mine at 10, but in hind sight, I think I was being greedy. To do it again, I would probably go 8" as I find I have to stoop to adjust. Whatever that's worth.


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks for all the responses. I've got a few large pieces to plane and joint, but I think I might be better served building the bech for more common purposes. I think 8" seems a good compromise between depth of the screw and not having to stoop to adjust.


----------



## Boatman53

I have the screw on mine set at 6" below the top. Big things, no worries you have the whole length of the chop along side of the screw since there are no guide rods. The higher the screw the more clamping pressure. If mine were any lower I'd be bending down to turn the handle.
Jim


----------



## CL810

Kevin, how can you walk away from that beautiful bench?


----------



## Buckethead

Apparently, small feats make me happy. (Queue the Rex Ryan jokes)










First, a chisel to set the line.

I started small, and didn't hog out any material with a saw. I didn't want to get too aggressive before I got the feel of what I was doing with the rasps I got from a surplus store for $2.99. (3-pack secured is my gangster rap monicker) they are cheap, but did a fine job of hogging. I then went to the Shinto saw rasp once I got close, then the shoulder and block planes. What fun.


----------



## chrisstef

Just no mark sanchez jersey tattoos huh bucket. Stylish work brosif.


----------



## DanKrager

Now you can put that great accomplishment in your Bucket! Showoff! 
DanK


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks for the kind words, gentlemen.

Looking at this photo, there seems to be some figuring in the maple. I never saw it before. There's a bit of funk on the back side of this piece. A dark patch. (Burl Ives makes a cameo?)









So I lucked out having this left over… Right on the front of the bench. (This is the chop for the leg vice, if it wasn't already apparent.)


----------



## DanKrager

Hey there, Burl. His hometown is about 10 mi from here! RIP.
...and Red Skelton's home town is about 20 mi from here, our closest shopping.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, have to, granddaughter project. Thanks for all the answers to screw height, been ruminating on that one for a few weeks.
Bucket, a work of art man. Diggin' those curves. How thick is it(Stef and Tony, shut up!)?


----------



## Buckethead

It's plenty thick. Way thicker than her last. Well… At least she's polite enough to tell me that. ;-)

So anywhoo it's just a shade under 2". Started off as 8/4 stock and made it through a couple passes on the thickness planer with the rest.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well, yay or nay?


























I'll probably blog about it when I get a chance. Pretty happy with how it turned out though. Not gonna say it spins like a BC, but it's waay better than it was.


----------



## Airframer

If you replace the flange you have on there with a flange bearing it will spin for days! Looks good…. maybe burn your initials in the hub cover?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Interesting you say that Eric. The "weak link" left really is the flange. It has some play in it. If I give it a good spin, the flange and hence the chop wobble a bit. 
Great! Now I gotta buy a new flange. Shoulda just bought the BC;-) Nah, I'd still be less than half the price.


----------



## Airframer

I think I picked mine up from the same place you got your wheel from for around $25. Still considerably less than the BC ;-)


----------



## Airframer

Here's a pic of mine..










It has 2 set screws that hold the threaded rod secure in the bearing and it even has a grease fitting to lube it up with.


----------



## shampeon

Looks great, Red.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Ian.

Eric, the bore would need to be an exact fit for it not to wobble ehh?


----------



## donwilwol

That looks good Red. You're going to like the wheel.


----------



## Airframer

Well.. I'd say "the same size" not so much and exact fit. The set screws kinda "center" it in the bearing so to speak. What size is your screw?


----------



## Airframer

Here ya go red.. it's a bit more than I remembered but this will fit your screw (assuming that is the LV tail vise screw? 1/18" diameter?)

http://www.essentracomponents.com/sku/SKF-8430

Still at $45 you will see a huge difference in performance.


----------



## Buckethead

A work of art, Red!

I'm wondering if I'll get upgrade fever once I have a working bench. I know that just having vises installed will be a huge upgrade from where I am now. Clamps on clamps. *Oh… Need to reposition? Time for lunch!*

Well. Now I know what to do for bold font here. Asterisks.


----------



## kiyoshigawa

Check out my new hard maple work bench. Some assembly is still required.



















I got some free hard maple flooring from my parents' remodel, and plan to laminate myself an 84"x30"x1.5" workbench top for use in my shop. Now I just need to keep saving for a bandsaw so I can remove all the grooves and chop off the front edge with the tongue and nails in it. Ideally, in a few months it'll start looking as nice as all the bench tops you guys keep posting here.


----------



## CL810

Red that wheel is great. But dang, man, now I gotta redo mine. Gotta find a wheel with some bling! ;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ I dunno Andy. I still think yours is cooler. I kicked around doing this upgrade for awhile. I don't think I would've ever attempted it without the stuff I've learned from you guys on here.

Eric- Ahhh…set screws. That makes sense. I mean, dang you.

So far I can't decide on which part improved the performance more- installing the support bearing in the leg (took a lot of downward pressure off that acme screw), or the heft of the cast iron wheel. Pretty happy with the 10" size even though it cost anymore.

Fun sharing with you guys. The friend I had over for a bbq last night tried to act interested;-)


----------



## Buckethead

That is the truth of it, Red. No one cares but us. But we care! It's why this place is so essential.

Tim, you have plenty o work ahead of you! I'd start be removing as many nails as I could prior to hitting it with a saw. You might need to go ahead and secure a couple gallons of glue. Still, that much maple is definitely a great score. Congrats!


----------



## woodcox

Nice Tim, at 84" I don't think this bench will fit in your back seat like your other one did.


----------



## theoldfart

Tim, I had 17 laminations and used this much glue









I'm guessing your going to need about double that.


----------



## theoldfart

This is a lot of slow work.









Good news is the joint is so tight I can lift the bench top up with it!


----------



## ToddJB

Red - looks awesome. Did you epoxy the hub?


----------



## theoldfart

Red, had some friends over for dinner and dominoes, and I could see the Ho Hum look on their faces if I even mentioned woodworking. ;-)


----------



## Pezking7p

Red I love the center cap. Did you turn it on the drill press too?

Kev, keep at it! Are you just slowly workin it down with planes/scrapers?


----------



## theoldfart

Rasps, one rough and one medium. I don't want to over adjust and be loose with the fit.


----------



## bandit571

Bling wheels? Go to the Junk Yard, find a steering wheel about the right size, maybe even an old Ford Falcon's. Add in the Spinner Knob that might even be still on it?

Or just fine any old steering wheel, with the center hub still intact. Maybe even a Audi?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The hub- ya guys, I took the remainder of that cocobolo turning blank and ripped it into 1/4" thick pieces. Then I bookmatched them on edge. I cut the hub slightly oversized and epoxied it to the wheel:









Then file the edges flush, 1/8" round over with the router, sand…wah-la.


----------



## RPhillips

Hey what's up guys, I'm back. Winter really set in this year and now that the birds are chirping that's my key to get the garage cleaned out and get ready to finish my bench.


----------



## theoldfart

Whoa Rob, how the hell are ya'?


----------



## Buckethead

Spring is bringing all the wayward sons home.

Kevin, your bench is becoming perfection. Are you using stretchers? One thing that made it tough for me was once I got my legs flushed into the top, getting them back out to install the tenons. Nerve wracking.

Does one use the w when spelling nerve wracking? (With sincere apologies to any English lit majors I have offended)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Welcome back from LJ sabbatical Rob. Most of the usual suspects are still here pretending we know what we're talking about;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Yea Red, just backing the one leg picks the top up. I want the joints tight but not too sure how the stretchers are going to work out.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well Kev. I remember that was a spicy day. Of course you'll make the stretchers custom after the legs are all dry fit. Then install the stretchers to the legs. And, in a perfect world you can rest the assembly over the benchtop and go around tapping each let til the seat home. Easy peasy. 
And if your like me, no matter how much you warn the old neighbor how sharp the dovetail points are, he'll still cut himself on them;-)


----------



## john2005

Hey Red, could you shed some light on the support bearing you mentioned a few posts back? I'm thinking I should have a roller on the lower side of the parallel guide but due to the way I built, it will have to be a flush fit. Just looking for ideas. The rest of you feel free to chime in if you have any good ideas. Thanks!


----------



## Pezking7p

Never would have thought that the dovetails would be sharp. It surprises a lot of people how sharp woodworking tools are.

John, can you post a picture of where you think you need the bearing? Sometimes some Teflon tape or hdpe tape will do the trick.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sure John. I was referring to the bearing I installed in the leg:









Before the acme screw went all the way through the leg to the nut/flange thingy on the inside of the leg… without any support. I could tell that was a lot of the reason my leg vise was a little stiff to turn. 
Anyway, a roller under my parallel guide would have helped too(probably still would a bit), but I didn't want to modify my chop. That's why I tried the bearing. Totally worth the $10.

Btw, BC and other designs often use a plastic plate for this purpose:


----------



## SugarbeatCo

I made some progress today. The boards I posted earlier are slightly over sized 8/4 red oak, roughly 16" wide x 8'-10' long. I ripped down 4 slabs into 5" pieces to get an idea of how much I would need to laminate the top and legs. Im up to about 24-3/4" before jointing, so I figure after jointing I will probably be right around 20-22".. I have some narrower stock left over from another project I will use for the stretchers (8/4 stock that's about 4" wide and 8'). Pulled out 2 to use as leg stock due to some big knots.. Glued them up today and started joining the faces of my bench top pieces.. I cant wait to be as far as Kevin.. Those joints look awesome man.. The dovetailed mortises are probably the only part of this build that I'm worried about, it just a big ass intimidating joint.. I hope mine turn out half as good as yours.. 
BRK the hub turned out sweet. I would have to carve something in it though, but maybe the simple approach is the way to go.. 



























I still haven't ordered my vises yet.. I'm stuck between a Lake Erie wooden screw and a BC crisscross leg vise.. Im also stuck between a BC and a Maguire wagon vise. Maybe I'll flip a coin one of these days…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Sugarbeat, I'm sure I will carve something in the hub one day when I get some carving tools.

For the dovetailed leg joint, are you gonna do it by hand like OF. Or some sort of power combo during lamination?


----------



## Buckethead

I'm going to suggest deciding on vises before gluing the top. I went with vises as an afterthought and it severely limited my choices. If you're right handed, cantilever the top on the right side. Sufficiently to allow any vise configuration.

Also, you could get more mileage out of your stock if you do 2" thick in the field. This also makes for less work if you go with an under mounted vise. Also, I've heard some complain about holdfasts with thicker tops. I've also heard that it can be remedied by sanding the holdfast rough, and/or wallowing the hole a bit.

Still. I like the idea of the thicker top, and in hindsight wish I had gone that direction rather than beefing up with ply on the underside. (My vise selection will cause me to rout out quite a bit of material prior to installation.)

On the plus side for going with full thickness, exposed end grain is a really good look, and you finish with less work. Plus the extra heft if your bench is smallish, compared to the 8' beasts.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Back in commission and better than ever.


----------



## ToddJB

Looks great, Red. Nice upgrade.


----------



## SugarbeatCo

BRK, I have a (very slight) bit more faith in my hand joinery skill than in trying to do some fancy lamination prep work.. I guess I will have a little while to think about it as the bench top lamination is sure to take me a year.. Hah.. 
Bucket, I will leave out the dog strip and edge boards until after the wagon vise gets here. I have a thing for the BC vises, so I will likely pony up for them.. The leg vise though? Seems like I should be able to retro fit that from what I have read anyways? Guess I should read up on the installation instructions again.. As for the thickness, I am using air dried flat saw slabs for this (i got a steal on them) Even at 6-8% moisture content I have experienced some very noticeable cupping in the 12/4 piece I have for my chop.. I would be a little leery of that staying true with the drastic mid-west climate changes we get here in South Dakota. Also, I'm a big guy (not to gloat) so having some heft to the bench is really appealing to me.. The bench will be 8' and approximately 26" (we'll see) wide so that should stay put with me torquing on it with the 608.. I like the look of exposed end grain, but I think I'm looking forward to the challenge of dovetailed end caps.. I'm actually going to be building 2 benches, one for this shop and one for a small hand tool shop in our retail store. The one at the store I want to gleam with detail.. But for our big shop I may just leave the end grain.. A lot to be determined.. Thanks for the input guys, this thread is worth as much as the Schwarz's books to a bench builder IMHO..


----------



## Buckethead

I think the leg vise is pretty cut and dry. Location is not crucial.

Speaking of leg vises…. Chop, chop: Last night after finishing the rough carving (?). I did use a router for the small cove. No moulding planes… Yet.









Today after some sanding… Cricket?



















There was one spot where the table saw left a saw mark. (Understatement). Suffice it to say that the tail is now tapered. I went with the "I'll just sand that later" method, and spent more time in that one spot than the rest of the work of the entire chop. I'm filing this under "lesson learned". I still need to work on making the two tapers symmetrical, and I thought it would look cool from the onset, so this one board will have some hours invested in it.

I'm enjoying it, and learning. Calling it time well spent.


----------



## Airframer

That looks Pimp! I suddenly have Chop envy bad! Mine looks like a plank of wood now lol…


----------



## SugarbeatCo

That looks awesome!


----------



## Buckethead

Sugarbeat… What is that relief in the background of photo #3 in your above post? It looks like a cedar carving of extremely high quality. Your work?


----------



## CL810

Made a Widdlestick today. When you see a better idea - steal it! Thanks Widdle!

And I've been told that when the proper chants are made in conjunction with it, the woodworker will receive special Kung fu woodworking skills.


----------



## Airframer

I like how it has a name now lol. Widdle you better patent that before BC gets a hold of it!


----------



## CL810

Awesome chop Bucket! And good catch on SB's carving - completely missed that.


----------



## Buckethead

I'm up for Widdle stick procedures. What's the layout on those Widdle holes? I'm seeing a couple offsets in the middle of the Widdle. Any special logic there?


----------



## SugarbeatCo

yeah, sort of… I kinda cheat.. Good eye though..


----------



## CL810

BH, it's so the end vise doesn't rack. The holes are offset to give you more options on the length of board you are working with when you use the end vise as your "wagon vise" like I do.


----------



## Buckethead

Rightio… I was specifically wondering about the layout of the Widdle holes. Are they staggered at 1/2" intervals, and I also noticed that the holes the two end holes in the middle of the Widdle were laid out at different intervals. I was thinking there was some special sauce, or reason for this?

Typing "in the middle of the Widdle" gives a certain satisfaction.


----------



## Airframer

It staggers them in the middle of the widdle (you are right about that lol) to allow as many size options possible. Just like the holes in the parallel guide on a leg vise.


----------



## john2005

The Widdleracker is hard to beat for sure!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ha! This turned saw handle Terry sent me has convinced me that I didn't use cocobolo for my leg vise handle. I'm pretty sure I got it confused with a piece of Bolivian rosewood I had. Oh well.

I'm terrible with exotics. Oh well, matches my bench better anyway.


----------



## Buckethead

Need to see the Widdle stick installed. It's tough to find a post if it isn't in a project or blog. Also… I plan to attach my Widdle stick to my cricket bat errrrr….. Chop







via wedged tenon. What amount of angle should I provide at the outside of the mortise? I'm thinking no more than 2 or 3 degrees, but don't know for sure. Maybe 5 degrees?


----------



## theoldfart

That bat looks defective.


----------



## Buckethead

I'm thinking about taking up cricket!


----------



## theoldfart

How does Cricket feel about this? Did you let her know? She deserves to know!


----------



## widdle

You guys need to send one dollar to widdle at po box widdle..and I'll send a patch to sew on your aprons. Red send 20. Looks good Clayton


----------



## john2005

Hey if it's only a buck I'll send it. Kinda disappointed that I only get a patch though…..what do you have by way of action figures?


----------



## CL810

Would love some widdle action figures. But only if there were speaking action figures. What good would they be without the widdleisms??


----------



## Buckethead

BLO: What if I don't like it?

I was wanting to sample some BLO so I decided to slather some onto my leg vise chop. There is quite a bit more figuring in this piece of maple than I thought. So that's nice, but the BLO is looking blotchy, and yellows too much. If I decide I don't like it, is there a practical way to remove it? Maybe I am not applying correctly?



















I slapped some on a scrap of Ipe for kicks…. Now this piece looks like a million bucks with it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I think it looks alright. Pretty sure you'd have to sand or plane it off if you don't like it. Lo siento.

Leg vise blog I promised for those who haven't already seen:
http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/40952

Back to the joinery bench…

Widdle action figure:


----------



## Airframer

Well.. you can plane it off pretty easily but the cove areas may be a bit tricky. That chop looks t!ts btw!


----------



## Buckethead

I'm imagining it as a paddle for giving my beloved a good spanking, but I'm thinking I'd better keep that in the thought stage.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

btw, bucket just about any finish is going to yellow maple a bit. Some more than others.


----------



## Buckethead

I'm thinking I'll sleep on it. It might strike me differently in the morning. There are some really pretty features hidden within much of it, and it will take some sort of finish to bring them out to the fullest.

Thanks for the responses, guys. Red, the wheel is a really nice addition. I already know I want one, but one step at a time. I want one of everything. ;-)


----------



## richardwootton

Bucket, I think the color looks just fine. Now, when it comes to the other thing, you'll never know until you try! Hell, she might like your bench a little more…


----------



## Buckethead

LOOOOL! Well, maybe special occasions. Father's Day is coming up soon. Wait… Mother's Day is first. I don't need any spankings.


----------



## richardwootton

Oh by the way Bucket, and I'm sure you already know this, but I would be sure and lay that BLO out flat on the drive way or something. There have been nightmare stories of houses burning down down from BLO soaked rags.


----------



## Buckethead

Actually, this is my first usage of BLO. Thanks for that Richard. The advice is much appreciated, and will be heeded. I'm going out now to put the rag outside.


----------



## JayT

Buckethead, did you thin the BLO before applying or use it straight? It's easier to control the color and dries much faster if you thin it with mineral spirits. I use 2 parts MS to 1 part BLO. You can always put a more concentrated level of BLO over a thinner one, but not vice versa. Plus thinning it helps it soak into the wood better.


----------



## Buckethead

No… I did not thin. I think that is causing the blotchiness. It isn't terrible, but I might plane it down and try again. I have never been one to do wood finishing, but it's time to man up.


----------



## Slyy

Bucket, I'll second JayT's comment. Not used BLO on any woodworking projects yet, but have used it exstensively in milsurp rifle restores. Thinning with Mineral spirits makes a world of difference with BLO I've thinned it as much as 5:1 with good results.


----------



## Brit

*Bucket* - Personally I think the BLO looks great, however if you do decide you really can't live with it, BLO comes off with oxalic acid. Some time back I was restoring a Disston No.5 which had a nasty black stain on one side of the handle.










I sanded the handle back to bare wood and thought I'd sanded enough to get rid of it. So I wiped on some BLO and bang, that stain came right back.










I couldn't live with it, so I bought some Liberon wood bleacher (oxalic acid) and painted it on.

At first I didn't think it was doing anything, but this is how it looked after leaving it to do it's thing for 30 minutes. The handle is still wet in the following photo.










I let it dry, then washed it off. Once the wood was dry, I applied a second coat, let it dry, washed it off and let it dry again. Not only did the oxalic acid remove the stain, it got rid of the BLO at the same time. This is how the handle looked at this stage.










I figured that was about as good as it was going to get, so I applied a finish again. Here's the result. You can still see the stain slightly, but I think you'll agree it is much better than it looked after originally applying the BLO and I got rid of the stain without having to reduce the dimensions of the handle further by sanding.


----------



## Brit

BTW, +100 to being paranoid with your oil soaked rags. If the oil you are applying with a rag has the combustible symbol on the bottle or tin, lay the rag out flat on the ground outside until it is bone dry or better still soak it in water before laying it out flat. *DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU*.


----------



## knockknock

Also when using a finish with a drying oil (linseed, tung, walnut, etc). Treat whatever you use as a drop cloth, the same as you do the oily rags.


----------



## donwilwol

Also buff the piece with a dry rag after you apply blo. It helps with the blotchiness. I use BLO a lot, but I like it less for maple. But enough buffing on subsequent layers will make it look nice. I also often apply the first 2 coats with a fine steel wool, then buff it out.


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks for all the tips, guys. I had no idea about the flammability issue. I understand that most every oil is flammable, but didn't know linseed oil was prone to spontaneous combustion. I really appreciate the warnings. All is well, and that could very well be because Richard gave the warning although he suspected I already knew. So a very sincere thank you to everyone.

I'm thinking I will try the oxalic acid Brit mentions. Then try again with a thinned version, or maybe another type of finish. I intended to only apply to the inside of the chop, in case it didn't look good, but if you've read anything from me before, you're picking up that I tend to be over-zealous once I get going.


----------



## merrill77

Regarding the BLO video - the reporter had it wrong - the rags do NOT heat up due to evaporation - evaporation is endothermic. Spontaneous combustion of rags happens only if you have an exothermic reaction as part of the finish's curing process (which BLO does). Evaporative finishes (shellac, lacquer) do not have this problem - on the contrary, the rags will actually cool as the fluid evaporates (like sweat cools your body) - again because evaporation is endothermic. In addition to having a finish with an exothermic curing process, the rags must also be in an arrangement that insulates part of it from cooling by the surrounding air - e.g. a pile big enough to allow the center to heat up. If you lay a rag flat on a surface, that won't happen (even on a combustible surface such as wood) because any heat released by the curing is lost to the surrounding air.

Am I careful? Yes. Paranoid? No. Science for the win.


----------



## chrisstef

Ill third the use of wood bleach / oxalic acid. Used it recently on a saw handle. It did what its supposed to do but you should get your gloves and goggles out bucket, you're working with acids. I wouldn't wanna get my fingers all up in it. Maybe a little super blonde shellac on the chop if the BLO isn't tickling you? Its a super nice chunk of lumber.


----------



## chrisstef

.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yikes, my habit has been to drape rags over the edge of a metal trash can. Maybe I should do even better than that. I rarely use BLO, but I use danish oil (with blo) all the time.


----------



## ACHiPo

"Regarding the BLO video - the reporter had it wrong - the rags do NOT heat up due to evaporation - evaporation is endothermic…"

Wish this board had a "like" button. Spot on Merrill.

+1 for science AND letting BLO and Danish oil rags dry flat or draped so air can circulate.


----------



## john2005

Another paranoid here. Watched a neighbors garage burn to the ground cause of oily rags. Not sure what kind of oil, but doesnt really matter. When I am done, I lay mine flat over an empty steel bucket, middle of the room. sometimes outside just cause. Course I'm also the guy who unplugs every machine before leaving too. My hopes and dreams are behind that door. May not be pretty, but I don't take many chances that away.


----------



## theoldfart

1. Always dry rags outside and flat

2. Always unplug tools and pull safety switch

Figured a bit anal but once the habit is developed I figured it would keep me from screwing up in my old age, whenever that happens.


----------



## Buckethead

I have gotten into the habit of unplugging tools also. I have little ones who like to accompany me in my woodworking misadventures. Little ones love experimenting with buttons and the like. Don't want a mishap there.


----------



## Mosquito

I always unplug, repack, and store on the shelf, but I'm not sure that counts lol I don't have anything that doesn't move or get stored away when not in use, that has a tail.


----------



## Brit

I'm paranoid about oily rags and I don't care who knows it. I always spread the rag flat outside. I know nothing would probably happen if I left it spread out inside, but why would I do that? It ain't like I'm gonna use it again so why take a risk no matter how small.


----------



## theoldfart

+1^


----------



## shampeon

The maple is blotching with BLO because it's figured. Personally, I think the enhanced figure looks awesome, but you're also seeing it before the BLO has fully dried (especially if you used it straight).

That's a big piece of wood, and I'm imagining trying to slather enough oxalic acid all over it and rinse it a couple times, and it's looking like a huge pain in the ass. So if I were you, I'd probably let it be. Next time, use an offcut for testing finishes.

If it's too yellow for your tastes, you could topcoat it with tinted shellac or poly. If you are set up for spraying, you could even out the blotchy areas that way as well.


----------



## Mosquito

I didn't really have anywhere not-inside, so I usually used a zip-loc freezer bag filled with water, then put the rag inside, and squeezed out any air


----------



## terryR

Yeah, I USED to be paranoid about oily finishing rags…

...now I just drape them on a pallet outside the shop and the goats eat them! LOL.


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks, Shamp. I intended to just use the hidden face as a tester, but got carried away when I started seeing the figuring. I'm a rookie. Been looking at wood grain my entire adult life, but mainly in pine and spruce. No real adventure there. Hardwoods are like candy.

Pine. Often gets short shrift but it really does have a beautiful grain. If it weren't the most common of woods, it would likely be highly sought after.


----------



## Brit

Terry - So that's why goats fall over.


----------



## Brit

If it was me Bucket, I'd leave that chop as it is. I like it. Even if you removed the BLO, what finish would you then apply to it? If it was another oil based finish, the chances are it wouldn't look any different.


----------



## john2005

Chop looks sweet, +1 for leave it.

Kevin, when does that whole old thing set in exactly…...

Heh heh..the goats eat em. Love it.


----------



## SugarbeatCo

The maple is blotching with BLO because it's figured. Personally, I think the enhanced figure looks awesome, but you're also seeing it before the BLO has fully dried (especially if you used it straight).

1+ I have to agree. I used the poor mans french polish almost exclusively for the first year of my woodworking adventure. It does a great job of popping the grain or displaying chatoyance. It was explained to me once but I will probably murder the explanation, but I'll try. I think it has to do with the oil penetrating the surface of wood at different thickness', as a result it reflects light at varying depths in the curl, thus leaving darker and lighter appearance.. I think it looks good BH..


----------



## ToddJB

Sugarbeat, Charlies Neil explains it happens because the "figure" is actually softer grain, so the oil soaks deeper into those areas, and that it's most noticeable with BLO because it takes so long to dry that it has that much more time to soak down into that grain. It's the same concept as getting darker end grain


----------



## Buckethead

Alright. Moving past any blotchiness worrying.

So I still have another breadboard to install. It wasn't tall enough to manage the Veritas twin screw face vise I intend to install, but still don't own. (At any rate, I could install another fact type vice) (this is due to my hasty selection of leg location. A wagon vise would interfere with the leg/top connection unless I placed 5 inches or more in from the face of the bench.)
An extra piece of 8/4 walnut at full length (24") was lacking, so I used a bit of the last drop I have. Had to piece it. My glue up was not pretty, but it was not important. The planes know. I haven't fount a processor or hard drive on my planes yet, but I know they are there. They know flat and straight, even when I don't.

Now installing the big ole rabbet (dado? Groove? Thingy?) into the breadboard. I don't have a router plane, and using the router is nerve wracking. Is this method acceptable?



















Maybe I just need an excuse to use my sueweet shoulder plane? Whatever it takes.


----------



## Buckethead

Arm.

Tired.

About 1/4th of the material removed.

Reconsidering.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That could work. If your gonna do it by hand, this would be the correct tool.









http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,230,41182,48945&p=59999


----------



## theoldfart

I'd use this


----------



## Buckethead

I like both, but see Kevin's as more practical for my wishes vs budget. Then again, I've not sprung for one yet.

Kevin, is that a cousin in law of a Stanley? And are those aftermarket irons? Intrigued. I just blew my wad last week on a shoulder plane and sharpening stuff. I'm thinking I should give that a go. All my planes and some of my chisels must surely be due.


----------



## theoldfart

Everything there is by Record. the irons are all original. It includes the additional irons as well. I've also added another set of H&R's, size 6.


----------



## Buckethead

What's the market cap on an acquisition like that?


----------



## theoldfart

I lucked out. Everything there was $200. Normally H&R's are about $100-125. I don't know how much the extra irons would go for and the basic stuff usually goes $100 +.

This is grossly over priced


----------



## Buckethead

What a deal! Do you have any experience with the Stanley 45? Was the record your preference, or was your decision based more on the good deal?

So I'm thinking the record is at least as good as the Stanley. I bought some Union planes and they seem to be as nice or nicer than my Stanley. They were is a little better shape. And my miller falls is probably my sweetest action plane. (Probably due to the previous owner [BRK] having it honed in) It sings.

I could ramble all night.


----------



## richardwootton

Bucket, I'm a big fan of Union planes. Now that I have my Stanley line up almost done, sans a 5 1/4, 1, and 2, which I don't really need anyway, then I will probably start working on my union line up. It's a damn problem we have, but I love it!


----------



## JayT

Bucket, 45's are insane amounts of fun! (and they're useful, too)




























And if you don't believe me, feel free to ask Mosquito for a second opinion.


----------



## Buckethead

Me too Richard. Unions have a really solid feel, and smooth action. Again I should credit the previous owner. In the case of the unions planes, it was Mark E.

I just jumped a hurdle. Sharpening has been intimidating, to say the least. I bought this set up first.








Craigslist find. It did not suit me. I wanted a simpler, less messy method. I could probably sell it for five more dollars than I paid for it. In fact, I just saw one on my local CL asking 30 bucks more.

Then, a few days ago while at the toy store picking up a shoulder plane I decided to take a chance on this set up:









Simple. Effective. Small. Clean. Seriously sharp. Dangerously so. I don't own a blade as sharp as the beater I just sharpened with it. Perhaps I should review this, but I don't want to venture into the sharpening debate world. People get cut up real bad messing around with that.

So now I need to figure out honing, which I believe is a simple, straightforward process. Need leather. Own belt. Sufficient?

Jay T, I was just perusing feebay looking at those. It seems there are earlier and later models, as well as a slew of potentially missing parts. I want this as my next purchase, but need to devote some time in learning the who's what's and why's about them before pulling the trigger. And hand saws. And a new table saw. And a router plane. And a rebate plane. Then a new thickness planer. And a farm. With an antique post and beam barn for my workshop. And a sleigh. With horses….....


----------



## JayT

Have you ventured over here, yet? The links in the original post are really helpful.


----------



## Iguana

Your leather belt is not likely to be suitable for a strop, no. You want something harder and at least as wide as your widest plane iron. Maybe if your belt came from winning a boxing championship…


----------



## theoldfart

Bucket, Record 405 and Stanley 45 are almost identical. New I wanted a combo so whatever good deal came my way..,,,


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks Mark!

And you too, JayT. I just spent an hour reading, then watching Mos make a box for his 45. Kid has talent. It was fun to watch.

I also saw you in that thread Kevin. Awesome trim for your tool chest. Maurice made some bitchin bead board, and only cheated on the rabbet. 

I really need one of those. Or a full set of moulding planes. I have a bunch of Ipe scrap. Ideally suited for DIY set of moulding planes. But about the irons….. Whole nuther deal. (Or is it nother?)


----------



## SpindleMaker

Recently, our 82-year-old semi-retired shake mill operator gifted me some reclaimed Douglas Fir for my new workbench. Phil is depressed because the Washington State voters put him out of his marijuana smuggling business. He began years ago smuggling Tasmanian Whiskey across the nearby Canadian border. Lately he specialized in Kona Gold. As we speak, he is plotting his revenge on the voters.

As long as I get to the mill by 11:30 AM, I can count on some decent reclaimed or stolen stuff from Phil. 11:30 is when he starts drinking beer.

Anyway, besides the lumber, Phil is donating the casters from a discarded baby crib for that almost-obscene-thing that inserts into slot A on the bottom of the leg vice chop, a set of rusted 3/8" threaded rods to reinforce the lamination of the top (it otherwise would be a multi-split Roubo due to the extensive checking on the Fir), and a front vice of unknown origins that will double as an end vice as some of you have done. Phil only asked in return that when I post the pictures, I identify the Havilah Shake and Marijuana Farming Enterprise as the sponsor.

Our budget for this project includes a Lee Valley screw for the leg vice, a gallon of glue, a full-rack for Phil, and five dollars of diesel fuel for the times I have to give Phil a lift home. I figure that $50 ought to cover the whole thing.

By the way, he has arranged for Margaret May from up on Bonaparte Mountain to pose for the obligatory Bondo portrait. He already explained that she will need to remember to bring her teeth to the photo shoot.
I will keep you posted on our progress (or lack thereof).

Rick


----------



## bandit571

$17 for this rebate option









Mint when I got it, too..


----------



## richardwootton

Rick I literally laughed out loud reading your post!


----------



## chrisstef

That post deserves a plaque and a place in the LJ hall of fame. I commend your efforts Rick, that was fuggin hilarious.


----------



## Buckethead

Benchtop clamping 101. You're welcome.


----------



## CL810

*Rick*, that post made my day! Please keep us posted as the build unfolds. Telling you to enjoy the build seems completely unnecessary as I think you're going to have a blast.


----------



## CL810

*Bucket*, did I miss something or are you holding out on us?? Have you finished your bench?


----------



## Buckethead

I was making fun of my "clamping" technique used to repair a kids chair that had been broken. I still haven't gotten the leg vise on, but plan to make the Swiss cheese board tonight. Debating whether to cannibalize a couple casters to mimic the benchcrafted easy glide system. I don't have the face vise yet. Was going to do the Veritas twin screw, but that girl is pricey.

Since you busted out photos of the Widdle stick, I've changed my mind and am going to get the less costly small face vise from lee valley. Saving a couple hundo. Thanks again, Widdle!


----------



## woodcox

With large thick chops and long distance between the screws made fine tuning a pita. Narrower with smaller chops would make it less finicky. Cool vise when dialed in, good candidate for hand wheels with some fabrication for a release on one of em.


----------



## RGtools

It's been a while since a Bondo pose, so here is me in all my glory on Grampa's workbench.


----------



## Mosquito

*saved


----------



## bandit571

Benchtop clamping, Graduate Level









Imagine a bench to build









a saw bench on









then, use THAT saw bench AND the Fancy Werner Bench









to build the parts









for a workbench









Not too bad a system









YMMV


----------



## woodcox

Good show today guys


----------



## Buckethead

Bucket burned the oil of midnight.





















































It's 3:13 am, I need a shower, and everyone is asleep. Hope I don't wake anyone.


----------



## theoldfart

Ryan, looking just about right! No zoot suit?
Bandit, pretty ingenious 
BH, now that a piece of art, way to go


----------



## RPhillips

Looking Good guys! Nice Bondo RG!

Hopefully, I'll get to the local mill and pick up some wood for my top. I'm going to use the reclaimed stuff I have for the legs, but the oak beams I have are just going to be too much for me to tackle.


----------



## Buckethead

RPhillips… I recall that you had gotten som massive oak 8×8s you were going to use for your top.

I know those are a beast, but wouldn't they make for a beautiful bench top? It would require the help of a somewhat knowledgable friend, but a pass, a flip and another pass on the table saw gets nearly through the thickness. Less than 2" of wood left to cut. A couple rollers, a friend and a bandsaw with a rough cutting blade could get through that in a couple minutes.

A set of saw horses serves as a planing surface for hefty timbers. Fun time! Three of those gives you 24" of top. A timber left over for stretchers and vise chops. If you did just a bit more ripping, and took one beam down to 2-1/2" you'd have 24" of 2-12" top, with a ton of stock left over for aprons, stretchers, chops, feet, trestles, or even another project.

Each time you complete milling the beam, it becomes more manageable. I realize, of course, I just spent a heap of your time. My own build suffered from me becoming overwhelmed at times, so please feel free to tell me to come rip those beams myself.


----------



## CL810

Nice work Bucket!


----------



## shampeon

Working on the other mortise on the vise block for the criss-cross. I learned my lesson from the leg mortise, and am using my router plane, a wide chisel, and brace for almost all the waste removal. I'll do the final outline with an electric router.









It's nice to just sweep up these long, thick curls rather than all the router chips, and I could do it all while my 2 year old was napping.


----------



## Buckethead

Looks great Shamp. I sure could have used a router plane a couple days ago. I made do with a shoulder plane after chiseling.

So I'm actually working with a partially functional bench now.
I got some holes drilled into the howzhamazilly for the leg vise. I used a divider to lay it out and thought I was a frikkin genius.










That's okay. The divider won't drill straight for me. ;-)

Before that, I needed to know what size holes to drill. Finally. I thought before I leapt. Progress. I had an old broken flat tip screw driver with a bit of heft. I decided to clean it up, lop off the tip, and use it until I could make a better handle. It was a big, ugly, yellow and black, and grimy, handle. I couldn't let it stay.










Found an old scrap of dumpster walnut. Perfect. Hole saw, and cut some extra so the pilot hole wouldn't show through the top, then chiseled the square down, got the steel in, and used my cordless drill for lathing procedures. This is the piece I'm most proud of in this build so far. I don't know why.










Here's the breadboard I had to extend a couple days ago. Not plugged because it will be removed again during end vise installation.










And now it's very nearly a woodworking bench, even if not a true roubo.


















So thanks everyone for the advice, encouragement and company. I've still a way to go, needing dog holes, a shelf, the end vise, dead man, and tool storage. I may even devise a tool well. I'm learning fast that tools accumulate quickly on the top.


----------



## theoldfart

A work of art BH. Looks Roubo to me!


----------



## shampeon

Yeah, that looks great, Buckethead.


----------



## CL810

Looks great Bucket!


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks guys.

I've been sanding today. There is glue all over this thing. Need to work on tighter joints, and using less glue.


----------



## Brit

Nice job Bucket.


----------



## RGtools

*Kevin* nope, just the farm-fit. but I will post a picture of my spats in another forum shortly.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Beautiful bench Bucket. Well done!


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks everyone!

Working a bit on my dead man today.

I realized some time ago, after I cut the first mortise in the legs, that centering them on the legs made them out of plane with the aprons. They are inset just about an inch. Having already finished the mortise, I was set.

I will be using some 4/4 maple stock that basically floats just outside the face of the stretcher, apply 2-3/4" rips of walnut to each side, then create a 1-3/4"x6" piece of fill at the bottom (hidden) to ride the rail, whether beveled or rounded bull nose. Haven't decided that yet.

Question: Is 4/4 thickness sufficient for a dead man using standard holdfasts, or do I need to beef it up to a minimum thickness?


----------



## Iguana

You could also attach a "skate" to the back of your deadman. The skate will be what rides on the stretcher.

This is how I'm planning to do mine:









I've specifically located the stretcher to allow for a 1 3/4" deadman to be flush with the front of the top. I doubt a traditional holdfast would work in a 1" deep hole, but I'm not going to use a traditional holdfast. I'm planning on building a tool cabinet to fit in the bench and the holdfast would protrude too far. Might use one of these: http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=57059


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks Mark! That is exactly what I was trying to explain, except that mine would be hidden by a piece butt joined to each side of the deadman. Just straight sides on a pice of maple, with walnut returns going back and straddling the runner. The skate would attach to the deadman and the walnut returns, but not be visible. The walnut would have the same profile as the skate, so would be integral to it.

I thought the idea was original, and mine, but someone once said that there is no such thing as an original thought. (And he probably wasn't the first)

I was even imagining a wheel from a caster with a V-groove to keep it on the runner, but have abandoned that idea. It just isn't "cricket".

And as for the holdfast, I'm also going to build a tool chest, and hadn't thought that through. A holdfast will hit the chest in all too many scenarios. I'm liking the hardware, and have seen others use it. Perhaps I need to drop some more coin.


----------



## Airframer

I don't use any holdfasts in my deadman. They really don't do well in mine (4/4) but I have a #203 that works wonderfully in it so I really haven't had a need to use a holdfast in my deadman.


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks Eric!

Is that a Stanley product? Available on feebay? ~heads to feebay for recon~


----------



## Airframer

Yep it's a Stanley. I think LV also makes a similar type of bench clamp(?). Here is what it looks like.



















They aren't ALWAYS on eBay but they also aren't super rare. Just add it to your normal search pattern and you are sure to come across one.


----------



## Iguana

Great. Now Bucket and I will be bidding each other up on 203s. I was trying to steer him away from the 'bay.


----------



## Buckethead

Loooool…

I did not see any available on teh bhey. My bride has also requested that I not spend any more on tools until I bring in another more substantial sum to the household budget. You have the bay to yourself for a couple weeks. ;-)

I might just watch the auction though.


----------



## Airframer

Here ya go.. the LV alternative http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=31150&cat=1,43838,43845&ap=1

I have no idea what the effectiveness of them are or how durable they are but might fit in your budget in a pinch.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Love that #203 discussion!


----------



## Iguana

Methinks that brightly colored cam lever would be a bit out of place on my bench.

But it should be pretty easy to make something like a lever clamp out of wood…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Man, usually LV brings the quality. Those reek of colby-jack.


----------



## merrill77

*Airframer* wrote: Here ya go.. the LV alternative http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=31150&cat=1,43838,43845&ap=1

Those look remarkably similar to something I picked up at HF. Those were usable, but not great. Coming from LV, these would HAVE to be better, right? right?


----------



## Buckethead

At ten bucks, those might be worth using for a while, but I think I agree with Mark her. After taking the time and expense to build fine furniture as a work bench, it just seems wrong to adorn it with plastic hardware.


----------



## August

I would like to join this forum?


----------



## DanKrager

Of course, August, and welcome. Got a workbench build going on?
DanK


----------



## August

Yes Dan I do.
I just have to remember how to post a picture


----------



## DanKrager

Wow! That looks like a Festool MFT. I bet that frame doesn't wobble…
This also looks like an assembly bench? The wood backstop useful for squaring things up? What else?
DanK


----------



## August

Yes that is true the light blue you see is made by my Freind askwoodman and the wood part is also a gift from Allan,
The bench has a long story behind it, soon as it's done I will be posting the video on my YouTube channel and high quality photo on my website, been waiting for over 7 years for a perfect bench design and I think I found my design.
The bench alone with out any wood just metal weighs at 625lbs.
Thanks for asking, I also look at your web very nice


----------



## theoldfart

Festool MFT? Mostly Foreign Tools? hehe :0)

I've not seen one of those before. Looks like a flexible hold down/ clamping system. Any pics of it in action?


----------



## August

Hi theoldfart, the bench is still in the process of being built,


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

August, I'd say you're a member with a Bondo Pose when the bench is complete. I'm grandfathered in, otherwise I'd have posted a picture of course. ;-)


----------



## August

Yes smitty as soon as my bench is done I will join the posing LOL
Here I'm attaching the top to the metal frame with screw


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, your bye has been revoked. Pic is hereby demanded!

August, it looks intriguing. Looking forward to the final product and pose.


----------



## August

Thanks theoldfart,
Here is the handle for one of the vice


----------



## Buckethead

I'm interwebs shy. I'm coming due for some bondo action, so I need to get some sort of Photoshop app.

August… Welcome to the support group for wayward garage dwellers.


----------



## bandit571

And no, I am NOT doing a Bondo on mine, either.

the photo would get us all banned from here, besides, it would be above the "Need to Know" level clearence.


----------



## richardwootton

Screw that bucket, just get drunk, that's what I'm gonna do! Unless of Roubo girl is going to be there, then I should probably stay somewhat sober, if ya know what I mean…


----------



## August

What about bench height? Is this a touchy subject to ask?


----------



## Buckethead

Adjusting Your bench height might be a touch more involved than mine. Currently my bench is at 32" above the floor.

For me a purist would consider it too high. I'm a towering 5'6" and I've got the ID to prove it.

I generally think 30" is the correct height for me, and maybe I'll cut the legs a bit. For now, I'm liking the 32".

For assembly and dovetails, I think higher is better, and for heavy planing, perhaps the 30" height would be more optimal. Mine is a compromise.

By the way, the vise handle/wheel is quite nice!


----------



## August

Thanks bucket as I said I've been waiting for a bench for over 7 years, I'm glad. I waited ,
Thanks mine will go from 36" to 42" and me too I have a that prove I'm 5'11 LOL. My 6 year old loves to help









Thanks Bucket


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Welcome August. We could use another bench build, and another Lie Nielsen addict;-)

I'm not ashamed to admit I had to get gooned up pretty good on whiskey to get my bondo pose done.

Smitty…grandfathered in…lol.


----------



## August

Thanks Red I do have to make a confession yes I'm guilty about LIENIELSEN








LOL


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ohh….you leave me in the dust when it comes to bench planes. I won't post my collection because these guys are sick of looking at it, but I did add these two this weekend.









I hopelessly addicted. By far my favorite thing to buy with extra cash. Well that, and taking my kids out for ice cream.


----------



## August

Oh wait I also won something at eBay the they don't make them anymore….here you Red it's the big chisel plane men oh men










Oh ps I'm jealous with your router


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ah man…yours is twice as big(snicker).


----------



## August

LOL thanks man I can't wait for another sideline so I can buy more









My screw for my vice


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice, you've definitely got some machining skills. Makes the possibilities endless for hardware.


----------



## August

Yes sir , and I know this is the wrong forum for this but I have access to lots of stuff and I will help people 
But my price is very high it will cost you guys $1.00 LOL
Anyway if you guys need aluminum extrusion or brass or metal I have it. 
Free not asking for any money in return. Maybe a case of beer????
Now to keep with the trend here is more pics of the build


----------



## Mosquito

August showin' up and throwin' down! Very nice vise handle you've got going on so far.


----------



## Buckethead

Richard, if roubo girl shows up, I'll send for help. Maybe order pizza.


----------



## August

Thanks mos 
I love playing with my lathe and mill I figured handles are like handplane oppssss LOL

On this photo my frame is being painted


----------



## RGtools

Did anyone else notice the gun to protect Augusts plane collection?


----------



## August

Nice one RG LOL


----------



## john2005

Catching up. Welcome aboard August! Some nice lookin welds there.

And no, I missed the gun first time but that's funny.


----------



## August

Here is one of the jaw for the vise.









thanks john,
that was actually a joke for one friend i ask him which dont get use the most LOL


----------



## jmartel

Dang that's nice. I wish I had metalworking equipment in my garage. Unfortunately, the size restricts me a bit. Plus I would want a separate area from the woodworking side so cutting fluid doesn't interfere with finishing and so that welding doesn't burn my house down from lighting up sawdust.

And you missed the bottom center nut.


----------



## August

Thanks Jmartel
But I wish that location is mine I'm just lucky enough to have a boss that let me put my metal machine in his space I don't own any of that except the mill and lathe


----------



## August

Yeah the bottom nut has a miniature story behind it ,
I was going to build a leg vise using the chain method, but now I had to reweld all the hole I machine in my leg, and I got that done , all I'm doing now is waiting for the bearing from my supplier so I can build my pinless leg vise good eye Jmartel


----------



## August

Ok more progress on the ultimate roubo work table , some fire works is involve



















Nice to have someone to do the dirty work LOL


----------



## Iguana

Finally had an hour today to get some more work done on my bench. The slab is glued up except for the front board and I figured the next step would be to flatten it in preparation for squaring off the ends in preparation for the end cap/front board joinery. I've got a 37" drum sander, should be easy.

Ya, right. The slab is around 200 lbs and 8' long. Mighty big lever. What I discovered is that it needs to be fully supported on the ends for all but the middle third of its travel through the sander. As big as the sander is, the pressure rollers don't have a hope of holding it flat when it isn't close to centered in the machine.

I tried. Holding one very heavy end up and perfectly level while walking it into the machine and then running around to catch the outgoing end and walk it level as the thing completes its pass isn't something I can do well. Any variation up or down as I'm holding and walking it produces uneven sanding. Did I mention the slab weighs 200 lbs?

I considered making some kind of infeed and outfeed tables. Two issues - first being that in order for them to work properly, they need to be perfectly aligned with the feed conveyor bed. And they would have to move up with the feed bed as I adjust the sanding thickness - in 1/100th of an inch increments.

Doable for sure, but building such tables would take far longer than just doing things the old fashioned way. So Ima sharpen my plane irons and get busy next week. Won't take long as the glue-up was pretty good. Less than 1/32" out over the surface.


----------



## theoldfart

Mark, welcome to the club. We tried to get my 7' long 4" thick and 22" wide slab out of my cellar shop. Bad move, almost hurt ourselves. So out came the 7 & 8.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Moving a bench is an affair. It was the last thing out of the shop last October, and only had to move into the next room, but it took me and my 20-year-old son all the muster we could must to do it right (and carefully).


----------



## Buckethead

August, you've got a full metal fabricating team at your disposal? Sweet!

My slab was not as big as yours, Mark, and had become quite crowned after leaning against the wall for the past 8 months. I thought I would never be able to get is flattened out by means of hand planing. As it turned out, it was one of the more satisfying tasks in the project. I got it finished in two sessions of a little over an hour each. This was proceeding with caution.

A cambered blade was very useful in hogging out material without tear out, and getting the overall surface flat.

There were shavings.


----------



## August

Yes it's nice to have a place to work were you can do some personal work, I can't wait for my bench to be done


----------



## Pezking7p

Tons of good stuff in here. August I love your less traditional approach using a steel base. That thing is going to be sweet.

Mark, I wasn't quite as lucky (read: skilled) as you, my bench ended up a 1/16" off. Not much trouble to flatten but my dang jointer plane is still tricked up and I haven't had the time to lap the bottom, so the bench sits 

Cheers everyone keep up the good work!


----------



## August

Yes Dan It took a long time for me to finally start the build after years of research magazine's and Internet forum and videos and YouTube, I decided that this will sorm for the kind of woodworking I dream of,.


----------



## Buckethead

Yes, August… Your build is not only unique, but awesome. Beautifully executed, and original. I can't wait to see its functionality.

Pez… Don't let real jobs get in the way of more important things. ;-)

I got my dead man slapped in place today. I vacillated among various designs for the skate. Well… I have done my share of skateboarding, so wheels seem logical. That and the piece of maple which is my front stretcher is just lovely. I hated to think about cutting another piece down (that might end up being my first end grain cutting board) and covering this one.

Now you guys feel free to blast me if I have erred. I can take it.

Here's the back side of the dead dood.










Slapping the wheels into place.










The dry fit. Had to edit this pic so it would be visible. (No I didn't slip you and e-Mickey)










It could run right off the stretcher without something to stop it. I gave 'er the ol' reach-around. (It needed to allow for the bottom shelf.)










I wanted to be sure the deaddood sat true. A 32nd higher on one side would translate into about 3/16ths out of perpendicular with the top. No good. That's why I added the brass screws… So I could adjust the plate within the dado. You can see the deadman tilting in this shot, but I didn't adjust here becaus it's sitting on a pretty good slop in the driveway. Inside, I tweaked ever so slightly, and she rests nice and true.



















Plus…. Brass just looks cool.

Still need to drill dog holes, but I'll wait until I have the Stanley 203s or other product. I want flexibility. Haste makes waste.


----------



## CL810

Wow, Bucket & August busting ranks and marching to the beat of a different drummer! I like it!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, talk about thinking outside of the box. Great work guys.


----------



## DanKrager

I like both benches!. Good work, guys. 
Now here's two examples for Stef. Seems he can rehab an entire factory in a week, but build a bench in a year? Nope. Selling and buying a house with small children is not an excuse, is it?  Hope your real estate deals pan out well, man.
DanK


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks for the kind words, men. Having just looked at Kiefer's home page and projects has me feeling just a little silly about beaming with pride over such a simple bench. (Simple, relative to his masterful design and execution)


----------



## August

Hey smitty I know about moving that stuff is no fun, in some ways.
Hey bucket that's a nice build men I wish I can do wood working like you guys but all I can do is dream. And yes don't talk to me about brass I love brass LOL.
Yeah cl108 yeah right not me I'm just a wanna be …
Dan how are you?


----------



## theoldfart

Ok, who's seen the new BenchCrafted leg vise screw ? Chris Schwarz just posted some pics and verbiage on the Lost Art blog. Looks well made and the finish is pretty cool.


----------



## Buckethead

Great. Another tool to lust over.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yeah, Kevin. Wheels are out now, everyone can convert back to the Classic style Tommy bar…

Seriously, though.

Schwarz talks about, and the pic shows, and indent on the tommy bar. He describes it as being a torque thing, I see another benefit. Sometimes, in use, said bar is slightly off-level so it slides longways into the path of the drawers under my bench. not a big deal, but aggravating at times. that indent and spring bearing feature would keep the bar in place and out of the way / keep it from sliding.

If that makes sense.

Wonder if there's a retrofit I could to do on the oak bar of my leg vise?


----------



## Buckethead

I know what you mean, Smitty. My leg vise is close to the end of my bench and extends past the end when in the closed position. A little whatchamadiddle to lock the uncledaddy in center pozish would be nice.


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty you could use one of those ball catches . Take off the handel, drill out the center of the screw hub and put in the catch. Mill a groove on the center of the handle. I think it wouldn't be too hard. I keep pinching my hand from the handle sliding all the way to the end.


----------



## August

Bucket I too design my 2 leg vise to be at the end also I can't wait
Here is a pic of it 









And then it's also equip with a semi- built in moxon vise also


----------



## Buckethead

August, you have been busy. The bench is looking beautiful!


----------



## jmartel

Smitty: Just use a pair of rubber O-rings. Put them in an area to prevent the bar from sliding/dropping, and when you want to slide the bar all the way out, roll them to the end. Should be under $5 solution.

Simplest solutions are usually the best.


----------



## woodchuckerNJ

Nice progress August. It looks good so far..

Bucket head, are those weights in the bottom of your deadman… I guess you really took the name deadman to heart


----------



## August

thanks bucket,
im actually machining the handle for my moxon handle now

thanks jmartel i cant wait for this to be done so i can finish my table saw also


----------



## Buckethead

Those are wheels from a caster, woodchuck.

I decided to get a little creative.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jmart, I also decided a simple spring clamp would do the job just fine when I need a fixed tommy bar.

Here we go, fixing problems just to avoid spending big bucks for a Benchcrafted vise setup. What were we thinking? EPIC FAIL…


----------



## August

Hey smith 
I have lots of 1-1/4 brass nut with flange
I purchase a lot from roton screw
I can provide you the nut and flange 
And I'll also provide the acetal bushing 
All you have todo is buy the screw and handle,
I can machine the lead screw for you?


> And if you don't mind I have 4 brand new cast aluminum hand wheel


?
Just my opinion.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

August, thank you for the very generous offer, i'm humbled. But know that I'm quite content with my leg vise set-up; it has done everything I've asked and more.

Seriously, thanks.


----------



## August

No problem bud,.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Here's the new BC they're talkin bout. 








-
Stout lookin bugger from dem Iowa boys. Torque is the one concern I had with a wheel vise, and why I opted for a little bigger wheel (10"). Mines not as big as Don Yoda's….but is anybodys?;-)

August is steadily moving up my list of LJ's I would love to have a beer with one day.


----------



## August

Some day red some day 
I'm just waiting for the bearing for the leg vise and then it will be done


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I am a cubs fan….so you never know


----------



## August

Damn Red 
I wish I can say I'm a sports fan but I'm not LOL


----------



## byerbyer

I knew there was something I liked about you Red…


----------



## theoldfart

Cubs fan definition: A collection of scar tissue, masochistic self abuser, delusional dreamer. hehehe


----------



## john2005

People are still posting on here right? Or was the cubs thing a killer?


----------



## CL810

John I guess the only guys building a bench now are Stef and Kevin. :-o)


----------



## August

Yeah I guess so my bench is not a bench it's a stool


----------



## Buckethead

Hey… Hold it a minute!

My bench is not complete, and despite tweaking my ancient back, I was able to get the bottom shelf in today… I thought everyone was tired of me hogging the thread.

But if no one else is gonna bust out…










Not sure if having put some of my tools there is going to be a hindrance, but as it is now, I'm keeping them all on two fold up tables. I really needed to get storage built, and the end vise and some of them there dog holes. Then I'll bust out the bondo pose.


----------



## August

Hey bucket men your bench is looking very good


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks, August. Yours looks amazing. That is going to be the coolest bench ever.


----------



## richardwootton

Alright John, I'll play along. I've been milling the red oak by hand for a little while and I'm almost done with the thickness dimensioning. Once I get past this point, it's crosscut to length, and rip down to the 4" width. My shoulders are getting tired just thinking about it! The picture quality isn't the best, but the bigger stack is what I've finished and the smaller one stacked on the floor is what's left.


----------



## August

Thanks bucket,
Well the bearing came in and the shaft also came in from McMaster come Monday will start to drill the hole, hopefully all goes well.


----------



## richardwootton

I have no idea how to get the picture oriented correctly when I post pictures from my friggin' iPhone!


----------



## August

If to You take the picture with iPhone horizontal it will come correct my experiences


----------



## john2005

Now that's what I'm talkin about! I'll even take a sideways pic. I say you get extra credit for milling by hand.

Lookin good there Bucket. That deadman is really growing on me.

Whatever happened to Kevin anyway? He was doing such a nice job…..


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks!

I think the old fart got a case of spring fever. Camping, cycling, and all that other stuff the kids do these days.


----------



## bandit571

Mine seems to be buried under some brown stuff









Messy, messy, messy….

Of course, all of these were blaming the new plane for the mess









Right…..


----------



## theoldfart

Fer cryin out loud, I'm still here! Been working on a project for my granddaughter. HOWEVER it is being done on the bench top.


----------



## john2005

Just checking OF. ;P


----------



## August

Hey THEOld,
What brand chisel is that on the left side?
Withme the wood handle?


----------



## Buckethead

Kevin, if you're working on it already, it qualifies for a bondo pose, no? ;-)


----------



## terryR

Youz guyz PLEASE keep posting photos of your bench builds! I have to live vicariously through you and get all excited about the oversized timbers and huge joinery. . I'm currently building a permanent roof on the chicken coop, re-working the foundation on our 1860's home, and placing more fencing. Typical spring farm duties, I guess?

So, keep the photos coming…surely I'm NOT the only one learning here!

Kevin, would LOVE to see a close up of that table's joinery…or a Blog.


----------



## theoldfart

August, an Ohio Tools 1 3/4.

A Bono from me would be censored by the Blog Gods!

TerryR, I'll post a pic or two this evening.


----------



## bandit571

This one is still sitting out an the old shop. Was too heavy to move to the new Dungeon Shop









Just wasting away. I did keep the leg vise. The owner of the pole barn uses the rest as a stand for his Chop saw









Just wasting away…


----------



## Buckethead

That's a cool old bench, bandit. It looks lonely out there.


----------



## DanKrager

Bandit, those things go down stairs pretty slickity-doo if you turn them over onto their tops. Just sayin', hate to see such a lonely site. You do some pretty outstanding work in that dungeon. 
DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Anyone take a toothed iron to a benchtop yep? I did tonight, very interesting…


----------



## CL810

^ Bodacious.


----------



## richardwootton

Smitty, I applaud your brass tacks for taking a toothed iron to your top. I don't think I could do it, I just love glassy smooth so much!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

My top is not perfectly flat. Stuck the toothed iron in the #164 and hit a large, known high area for about 20 minutes. Resulting finish seems grippy to the touch, but a scrap of rough sawn pecan slid around about the same so I'm not sure of the impact. Set with a holddown is likely another story too.

Hit it with a coat of Watco. We'll see if I do more or erase it.


----------



## donwilwol

It seems the roughness could cause damage. It'll be interesting to see how you like it Smitty.


----------



## john2005

Also interested here Smit. I'd heard of it but was too chicken to try. Don brings up a good point too. Is it causing more work downstream?


----------



## August

Update 
Moxon vise is done








I tried to make the leg vise and moxon handles to be similar


----------



## terryR

^awesome!


----------



## August

Thanks terry,
I can't wait for this bench to be done to much machining involve ,
Today I will be working on the pinless guide for the leg vise 
Hopefully it will work.


----------



## Buckethead

Amazing work, August. I suggest you market these. Not sure if you could build them and mark them up enough to justify it. Seems like just the cost of materials is going to be high, but they are beautiful.

I see four hand wheels for the Moxon? Did you consider an inset nut for the back side of the moxon? A square, or hex, or star, pentagram, peanut, or any shape you could think of, inset into the backside of the back jaw?


----------



## August

yeah price alone is enough to push people away,

yes because i will also have a so called portable moxon also LOL
cant have enough vise.

as for the back of the threaded rod this is how i made mine


----------



## DanKrager

August, that's furniture! Awesome.
Dank


----------



## woodcox

Beautiful August. That looks like a fast pitch on your screws, perfect for a moxon.


----------



## August

Thanks wood,
It's a 4 lead start thread super fast I need a radar detector LOL


----------



## Buckethead

^^^

lawl!


----------



## CL810

Beautiful work August!


----------



## August

Thanks CL,
Funny thinks is I thought I would be done today with the machining but I ran in to a problem with the leg vise oh well maybe tomorrow LOL


----------



## August

Hey Dan thanks 
Men sometimes the comments comes late or I just don't see LOL thanks Dan


----------



## richardwootton

I'm definitely not making progress like Bucket and August, but here's my random shot of the day. Milling another board for the bench on a BEAUTIFUL day.


















The funny thing about all 120+ board feet of this Red Oak is that I haven't seen a single flat sawn board yet. It has all been quarter sawn and some rift sawn. Which I love from a stability stand point, but boy I hate hiding all of that beautiful quarter sawn medullary rays in a big laminated bench top. Hopefully I'll have some left over for other projects.


----------



## Buckethead

I know what you mean there, RW… That is some sweet looking grain action. I might be tempted to sideline tho oak in favor of making my my bench from that huge stack of pine I see right next to it.

At a minimum I would orient it to maximize the view of the grain. Some high dollar stuff there, even if you got it at bargain basement prices.


----------



## richardwootton

A whopping 55 cents a board foot. I still need to go back out there and pick up Cherry and white oak.


----------



## Buckethead

Holy Mackeral!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yikes, that would be tough burying all of that tiger stripe. The nice part about laminating plainsawn is that the cool figure on the top edge.


----------



## August

Hey Richard nice going there and yes it does look like a nice day, swing that sun shine around your work makes it look so peaceful.
Ok I have a new trailer 
Where is this 55 cents deal??!


----------



## August

I thinks the best deal I have ever encounter was a garage sale around by me 100bft of red oak 
And I paid $45 the guy just wanted to move it since they were moving out.


----------



## richardwootton

Red, that's what I'm talkin' about. It'll definitely be pronounced on the front of the bench, legs and stretchers. Who knows, maybe I'll get a wild hare and pick up some 8/4 plain sawn to laminate for the top and laminate some 4/4 QS to the front and back, then use the QS for the base. Decisions, decisions.


----------



## TerryDowning

Ok,

Time to throw my hat in the proverbial ring.

Started on an English joiner's bench (ala Paul Sellers) last weekend
Even gonna do it in the back yard like Paul does in his video (as long as the weather stays "normal" for this time of year anyways.










The weapons of choice









All lined up and ready to start planing









Initial surfacing done, Not bad for a Saturday.









Beer 30!!









Back at it on Sunday

I did some fitting on the wedge powered wagon vice and the glue up began.
Glue up is way too fast to stop for pictures.









Beer 30 again. I also did other chores around the house, mowed the lawn, and watched a movie with the fam.


















This morning before work, I pulled off the top clamps and started flattening the top.









How I left the "shop" this morning before I left for work.










Items remaining
Another top Panel
Well Board
Aprons x 2
Legs x 2

At least I finally got started though.


----------



## woodcox

Awesome Terry,helluva place to build a bench. I like the rake for clean up.


----------



## TerryDowning

Thanks, I like it.

As for the rake, the breeze was blowing the shavings onto the lawn and LOML was not impressed.

Easier to rake than mow again.


----------



## richardwootton

Looking great Terry! I just bagged up 4 or 5 big lawn and garden bags of shavings the other day, I know how you feel brother.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh….this is gonna be a good build TerryD. Right on.


----------



## Buckethead

That is a manly batch of shavings, Terry. Like a boss. (Is that phrase played out yet?)


----------



## CL810

Yo, Terry D, throwing it down in the ring!


----------



## richardwootton

Bucket, hellz no the phrase isn't played out yet, except you misspelled BAWSE!


----------



## ColonelTravis

Hey Terry, I'm right behind you on my bench progress, even doing it in outside. How did you hold down those boards for planing before glue-up (from the looks it appears you planed some before glue-up, I'm guessing the faces)?


----------



## Buckethead

I got notifications of posts in this thread, but I can't see them. Did err buddy block me?

Wait… Now I sees 'em. But I wouldn't blame anyone if they did.


----------



## Slyy

TD that is the way to go bud!!! Hanging outside in the sun on a beautiful day with a dang good excuse for doing it!
Excite to watch your build….. Someday I'll get around to one myself, in the meantime vicarious living is just fine!!


----------



## john2005

Some strong work here today boys. Lovin the outdoor shops.

Richard, you are really hard to recognize now that you have an avatar. All good though.


----------



## TerryDowning

Yes, I planed the faces and planed off the nasty round factory corners before gluing up. Need to make sure any twist, cup or significant bow is remove BEFORE trying to glue up.

As for work holding, I just clamped a board to the end of my work surface to serve as a planing stop. For the faces I just got rid of any defects that would prevent gluing up. My MF No.10 did most of that work followed up with my No. 22. For the edges I went at them with my Jack Plane with heavy cambered iron to hog off the edges (approximately 1/8" from either side) then followed up with my 22. I didn't get too crazy regarding square or perfectly flat as I knew I would be flattening both faces of the glued up top.

Flattening the bottom before leaving for work this morning. Yes, the bottom. It is essential to ensure the bottom is flat as this is where the top joins to the legs and any inconsistencies will be magnified.









A trusted straight edge and some winding sticks are essential to this process.

Still some belly I need t get rid of as one end is still a bit high.









Further down the board, no gap!









I think I have the twist under control!









Had to get to work. Hopefully I can finish tonight.

And yes working outdoors is very nice.


----------



## AnthonyReed

So cool Terry! Thanks.


----------



## richardwootton

Terry, are you going to be following Paul's plans to the letter or are you going to make any changes to his design?


----------



## TerryDowning

I have already made a huge modification. I'm adding a Wedge powered wagon vice rather than a traditional end or wagon vice.

Similar to the one on my saw bench.
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/93021

I also will not be using a quick release vise like Paul. It would be nice but discretionary funds are lacking.

I'll let the esteemed panel way in on this.

Vise options:
Shipwright inspired V8 powered Leg Vise

Kiefer Vise 


Shop built Moxon style vise

Use my rather crappy 6 inch Bessey face vise (all of $13 at Lowe's on clearance) and continue to suffer.

The leg design will need to be altered based on the vise I choose to employ/make.

Keep in mind that I don't do a lot of heavy planing most of what I do is finer joinery work and such. The only furniture size pieces I have made are benches for the shop or props for the Band. Everything else is smaller projects. Part of my hobby I've found is making shop built tools and such as well so any discretionary hobby funding is routed to materials and consumables rather than tools that I can make or rehab.


----------



## Buckethead

I love shipwright's wedge vises, Terry. It actually appeals to me more than even buying a benchcrafted vise. It was my original intent to build one for my bench, but I soon discovered that my talents were not to the level I imagined.

Despite building structures from wood for decades, building individual components with a hand and eye for finer detail is quite another matter.

I chickened out. (He said, blushing)


----------



## richardwootton

Terry, another thing to consider, which is the route I'll be taking on my bench, is the wooden screw and Jim's chain guide. I know Mos, and Mauricio both used wooden screws and they're just so darn cool! I do like shipwright's wedge vises also, but I opted to a different approach.


----------



## bandit571

I wonder wher people get the idea to build a bench on the back porch at









Bumpster Dive bench for the Dungeon Shop


----------



## TerryDowning

Thanks Richard, I thought I had whittled down to 4 choices.


----------



## August

Terry have you seen the pinless vise with the shaft ?


----------



## TerryDowning

Any vice (other than the Bessey POS) will be shop made from BORG components.

Why you ask?

Because I'm a cheap old B'tard. Emphasis on cheap and old.


----------



## August

The leg vice there is 2 videos on YouTube about it the old English woodworker has a video of that leg vise no pin no chain.

Similar to what I'm building 
If you haven't started yet I suggest you look it up might give more ideas


----------



## Buckethead

One can become overwhelmed deciding which vises to employ. I finally had to decide to do the damn thang.


----------



## bandit571

Leg vise for mine is just a 8/4 Sycamore "chop" moved around with a PIPE CLAMP through the leg. How long a pipe is up to you…


----------



## Buckethead

I considered going with a pipe clamp, bandit, but wanted to use this experience as a lesson in furniture building, and joinery types. It seemed a shame to go to all the trouble I did then to just slap a piece of pipe through it. Opting for what I did was a compromise (lee valley, easy to install hardware). I really see shipwrights wedge vise as very complimentary to furniture, I just lack his experience and talent.


----------



## woodchuckerNJ

August, I keep thinking 
BANK VAULT
or SHIP DOOR when I see those wheels for your moxon and vise.

They look great, should provide lots of torque too.

They do look awesome..

Don't sell them, let everyone drool


----------



## Buckethead

#drooling


----------



## August

Jeff LOL
Funny I already recive 3 pm asking if i sell it 
I'm not here to sell I'll do it for free well maybe not free but a bottle of glenlevet 
Yeah me too I don't know but it's cool 
And to make things even better I made it 
On the torque your 100% correct 
And the beauty of 3 handle is it's always position. 
To where you have access 
Thanks for kind words bud and thanks for looking


----------



## mochoa

I'm way behind on my LJ's.

August, that bench is F*cking bad aas!

Smitty, looking forward to an update on the toothing experiment. The French oak roubo ant my local woodcraft is toothed and unfinished and it wasn't as ugly as I would have expected.

Terry great work, I built simple Nicholson and I think they are pretty nice and very functional benches.

carry on…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Here's the section of the bench that got 'knocked down' with the toothed iron.










Close up (watco's applied).










I like. Haven't used yet, but I like.


----------



## john2005

Does have great texture


----------



## Buckethead

Smitty… Although a toothed iron is a new concept to me, that looks as though it may be a good choice to start off with on figured stock and that with highly interwoven grain. It seems you could hit it with a smoother afterwards, with less tear out. Am I guessing correctly?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Bucket, in my uneducated view, yes to your guess. It's also texture in advance of veneering.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Bucket, that's exactly how LN recommends using a toothed iron. I have one for my no 62. I need to tinker with it some more.


----------



## August

Oh men
Today is a good Day my 30mm shaft is coming in I can finally install my leg vice


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks fellas. I was playing with some African mahogany yesterday, and despite my best efforts, there was tear out in the most difficult spots. The only solution I was coming up with was to plane lightly, across grain, and not touch the untouchable spots. That leaves a heckuva lot of sanding, and I doubt I'd ever be able to a achieve a reasonably uniform thickness without running the jointer plane lengthwise.

Maybe someone makes a toothed iron that would work in one of my in house hand planes?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bucket. Tearout is just one of the learning curves when in comes to hand planes. Freaky sharp is the best weapon. Sometimes I just recognize area that are going to be friendly to a hand plane. Then I either use a no. 80 or card scraper. No 80 cabinet scraper are also very helpful in cleaning up areas with tearout.










Best part, they're pretty reasonable. Usually $20-30.


----------



## August

Big red good morning I have a tool that I can post with out flack lol


----------



## ToddJB

August staying classy with socks and saddles. Good work, Sir.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

LOL. Poor August can't win. First he gets grief from the LJ tool budget gestapo. Now he's got the LJ fashion police on his tail.


----------



## ToddJB

I think August has won. We (I) tease out of jealousy.


----------



## chrisstef

Obviously Red's a socks and sandals guy too. He's just sticking up for his brethren and with a size 14 sandal you and I could probably paddle the Mississippi on em Todd.


----------



## JayT

Maybe someone makes a toothed iron that would work in one of my in house hand planes?

Lie Nielsen has toothing blades for bench planes-a #3, a 2 inch wide for a #4 or 5, or for the 2-3/8 wide planes. They also have them for bevel up jacks and smoothers.

For a less expensive option, do you have a 9-1/2 or 60-1/2 block plane? If so, here you go.

I used one of those to build my own toothing plane. Not quite as fine of teeth, but does give you another option.


----------



## merrill77

Veritas makes 2 1/4", 2" and 1 3/4" toothed blades for their bevel-up planes:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=49708&cat=1,41182,52515
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=45864&cat=1,41182,52515
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=67691&cat=1,41182,52515

I would guess that they'd work bevel-down???, but have not considered this or tried this it myself.


----------



## August




----------



## August




----------



## AnthonyReed

Sharp will help a bunch Bucket, stop being a punk and sharpen that iron.

Ha @ sock call out & canoe shoes!


----------



## Sylvain

August,
a "4 lead start thread" is certainly super fast.
Can you thighten it?
I mean: doesn't it unscrew by itself?


----------



## August

^ hi sylvain 
here i made a small video
http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf


__
https://flic.kr/p/14051407229

*thanks -Mauricio*


----------



## TerryDowning

Minimal progress this morning.

Got the bottom of the bench top flattened so no light shows under the straight edge. (No Pics, but it did happen)

Someone asked how I'm holding the stock for initial planing.

HF and a an old cutoff to the rescue. Just clamp a stop block to the end of the temporary bench and go for it.









Started planing off stock for the legs.
Had to sharpen my No. 10 it was leaving those annoying lines indicating a fractured edge. Oh well, I been using it a lot and I never got the iron where i wanted it when I first received it. Sometimes it takes a while to dial in an iron.

Nice pics of the family and your shop August.

Great looking bench Smitty, nicely done on the resurfacing.

I need to decide on the leg vise soon as I'm building the leg assemblies next. Need Glue, may need Hardware.

Note to self. Elevate the priority of cutting card scrapers from old saw blade on the to do list.


----------



## August

thanks terry 
im waiting for that book today


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Put some gutters on the shed this morning….









LAWL


----------



## August

hey big red thank for doing that LOL LOL LOL


----------



## BigRedKnothead

hehehe. I had to take the socks off right after the pic. Hurt my toes.

Wonder how Stef knew my shoe size? He knows …too….much.


----------



## August

^ LOL
He is a spy men


----------



## Mosquito

Terry, I didn't even go for the cutoff… just straight clamp on the bench lol


----------



## Sylvain

August,
thanks, for the video. Of course there is always some friction between the vise jaw and the handle hub when thightened.


----------



## bandit571

Well, since you ARE outside, maybe set up a step ladder?









Clamps from Visegrip









Might even run a plane around









Not even a Workmate allows vertical clamping









Don't even own any sandals…..


----------



## August

Sylvain every thread will some how come loose, depends on circumstance,
only ball screw which i work on it alot is the only one i know that will back out if no load that's why they use that in cnc machines,
now for me using the 4 lead start i chose that because it seems like every-time i see a moxon vice the want to spin tha handle so i made mine to where i can get a speeding ticket, 
thanks.


----------



## August

hey moss is that the new bench that people have been talking about? LOL


----------



## ColonelTravis

Perfect photo, Terry, I'd asked about your planing set-up. Thanks. I've seen the Paul Sellers videos many times when he's sitting on boards jammed against a tree. My POS sawhorses are plastic, that ain't gonna work.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Terry I hope you go with Shipwright's version, it seems to be the

Haha! Nice work BRK.

That reminds me, Mos's build was sure fun to witness.


----------



## Mosquito

It's not new, finished the build about a year ago. Still haven't put any finish on it yet though… hmmm, now that I've got a garage to use attached to my living quarters, I might have to make that a project for this summer


----------



## kiefer

TerryDowning
It comes down to what you want for a vise as far as traditional and nostalgic or a more modern operating vise but with a traditional look.
I designed this vise for several reasons and the advantages it offers .
First the chop is a type 1 lever instead of the type 3 which all previous designs employ.
Second the vise is a quick release vise at any time when no clamping pressure is applied and does not require a additional lever to release the mechanism .
Third it allows both my hands to be free to position the work piece and apply clamping pressure with the foot pedal .
Forth The vise is built from common hardware that is inexpensive and easy to obtain at your local hardware store .

I have posted a couple of videos here on LJ's to explain the function of the vise because there have been several inquiries about some operating function .
The vise is different then anything out there but very simple in its function and build .
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/98982
The only change that I will make to the design is when it is installed in the left front leg to reverse the access cover to the left side to allow better installation of the stretchers which is something I had to workaround because I reuse the post from a previous design .
I still like the look of the old Roubo vise as it is a nostalgic design but also like innovation in any tool if it serves a purpose .


----------



## AnthonyReed

Grrr…. phone is editing me a ton this week.

I meant to say that Shipwright's vise seems to be more your style Terry.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Wow, that is some impressive engineering Kiefer.


----------



## Sylvain

August,
there was no critique intended,
I have a cork screw with double entry thread and high pitch. When taken upside-down (as on the picture) , the handle would start to turn under it own wheight. It is not possible to tighten it because there not enough friction between the handle and the body.
I was just wandering how the vise was performing.


----------



## August

sylvain no worries ,
but the screw on that wine bottle opener is is not a load bearing design, im not all the up to date on what is a good thread pattern but acme generally speaking is design to deliver high torque,
i wasnt trying to also start a whos screw is better just stating fact,
there lots of threads out there
square,buttress thread,torqspline,trapezoidal,ballscrew,worms,

and just byt your pictures TO ME ONLY looks to be a worm screw, thanks again


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That Moxon is pretty sweet August.

If you guys haven't already, check out August's website for a slideshow on his build. 
http://www.guidetomachining.com/


----------



## August

thanks red ,
shaft came in for my leg vise hopes it works


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Here's my BC moxon. I don't think the thread action is quite as nice as yours though.


----------



## August

thats nice Red love the movable jaw design, 
i would bought the BC model but when i design my bench 6 years ago on paper i had this stupid idea of building it my self now im sucking air LOL


----------



## merrill77

Between Christmas presents, pinewood derby and remodeling the other half of my shop, it's been a while since I've been able to post any progress on my bench, which is dangerously near completion. My last task is 14 drawers for the under-bench tool cabinet.

Sorry neanders, I burned lots of electrons for this work 

First step is to resaw some 1" tulip into 1/2" stock for the sides and 1/4" for the bottoms. My previous resawing attempts have been only mildly successful and the task left little room for error. Instead of a fancy resaw fence that I've used in the past, I tried a very simple resaw single-point fence and featherboard:










A while later, with the help of the planer, I had a nice stack of thinner boards to work with. 1/2" on the left, 1/4" on the right.










My first 9 drawers are only 2" high, but my stock was mostly just shy of 4" wide. After cutting these down to the length of one drawer side + one drawer front, I jointed one edge so I can glue them up and get more drawers with less waste. I don't have a corded jointer, so I straightened the rough edges on the TS with a sled.

And here I'm removing saw marks before the glue up…which is exciting because I'm finally able to USE my workbench!!! Wow, working these edges is so easy with this arrangement. No clamping/unclamping to mess with…just drop the board in place, take a few passes, swap in the next board and repeat.


----------



## TerryDowning

Pretty sure I'm going to go with a modification of the shipwright Wedge Vise. It's the most cost effective route at this time.

I'll need to make the leg much beefier to accommodate the wedge piece. Still puzzling that one through.

Thinking about incorporating a pinless style as demonstrated in this video.

Need to buy more glue.
Need to buy more tuba 4 stock.

Minimal progress to report. just more planing on leg stock.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Great progress Merrill.

Looking forward to seeing your rendition Terry.


----------



## richardwootton

Chris, looks like you're getting close to ready for a Bondo pose!


----------



## theoldfart

Looks like the Bondo pose is now on the Lost Art blog site


----------



## August

Oh men looks like I missing a lot.
Well some progress on my pinless leg vise 
Holes are drilled out


----------



## Buckethead

Looking good August. I miss the blue on the top rails. I really liked the contrast. Is there a rolling mechanism in the lower rod?


----------



## August

Thanks bucket yes I still have the blue tuning I just took it off to make it light damn thing weigh 675 lbs as is.
Now for the leg vise construction my first design was just using the parallel design with holes, but I change my mind,
I'm using the shaft and bearing like the one I saw on the YouTube I think it's the oldenglish woodworker .
But he offers no help, he said that he design the shaft and bearing to only work on wood screw, 
I bought the shaft at Grainger and I ordered my 30mm bearing in hongkong 
Anyway I'm playing this as I go if it works we celebrate if not back to drawing board.

Will keep you guys upto date


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Merrill- good to see you back at it. Those drawers can eat up some hours though. I'm nearing completion on my joinery bench too. Hallelujah.

Kevin- that pose on Schwarz's blog IS eerily similar to our bondo pose's. I bet those guys are lurkers on our awesome thread.

August- It will be interesting to see you pull off that pinless leg vise. I think LJ Jmart tried it awhile back and struggled. I'm starting to believe it's possible, but requires a lot of precision…..and onehelluva Chop. There's gotta be a ton of torque where that linear rod mounts to the chop. Probably why every pic I've seen with this method has a very thick chop. Anyway, I believe this is the video your referencing.


----------



## August

Good point Red 
My thinking was if it don't work I'll put like a nice solid brass stock the full lengthy of the jaw, I have 3/4 by 4" wide solid brass bar stock anyway I'm praying.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'm sure you can pull it off if anyone can August. Schwarz acknowledges it as an option in this blog:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/workbenches/schwarz-workbenches/leg-vises-without-the-pin-3-other-solutions

He equates it to making your vise into a holdfast…. which makes sense. But also reiterates the amount of torque on that rod. Interesting stuff.


----------



## August

hi Red 
you know this bench build of mine is been really a long time coming,
i already started with my first design by using the bar aluminum and just drilling holes and using the pin but i change my mind, anyway doing some computer work and mocking things up it really looks possible,
my leg for my bench is 6×6x1/4 metal and im actually supporting the bearing sleeve by a custom made sleeve so it wont bend up or down, im just waiting for the material to arrive, and then its hole boring time LOL.
i really hope this works because this could be adopted to a existing leg vise,


----------



## TerryDowning

Bench Legs * 2 glued up this morning.



















2 more to go, 
then the aaprons, 
then the other top piece
then the well board.

It's progress anyways


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, I have a pinless leg vice. It didn't work for me. I believe my chop isn't stiff enough even though it's laminated from 2 pieces of 6/4 Oak. So my solution has been to cut some wood spacers that ride on the shaft for now to act the same as pins. I may give it another try at some point, maybe with some doubled up 8/4 wood instead, and maybe a bit less distance between the shaft and the screw.


----------



## August

Hey Jmartel 
Yes big red was saying that,
Do you have any pictures or records of your build?
Be nice to chat with you?
Yeah I'm really doing this pretty much with my eye close 
Hopefully it will work
I first started out with the parallel style but change my mind.
I contacted the English woodworker but he basically offers no help, he said that he design the bearing that will only work in his wood screw??? Funny he is using a commonly use sleeve bearing LMU25 mm
Anyway I saw that in popular woodworking blog.
And I'm using a 30 mm 
I'm hoping it will work because men I've been waiting for a bench for sometime now.


----------



## bandit571

Planning on making a wood bodied Jack plane, stumbled on to this fine fellow and HIS benches.

Note: this is done in Chinese. Just turn the sound off, watch how this fellow works on his two benches, and note the "hammer" he swings






Swing starts even BEFORE the chisels are set. One bench MIGHT be a might rough on your rearend, though.

First of three parts in the building of a plane…...


----------



## CL810

Interesting comment by Schwarz regarding the install of Benchcrafted's Criss Cross in his bench.

While the installation was simple, it's not for the bolt-it-and-go crowd. You need to be on your A-game to get the vise to run smoothly.

I would think it is especially true with a metal screw versus a wood screw which has more play.


----------



## August

cl810 yes 
and my acme screw is a real good quality made by roton screw and the nut is 3 inches long brass, 
anyway i will continue the build if it fails back to drawing board.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You need to be on your A-game to get the vise to run smoothly.

Read: difficult to get to work right. Not worth the time or $ (to me)...


----------



## woodcox

First hole, where I needed it. Yep that hole prolly won't fall in with the pattern to come. Good stop though. Hah! Bench thought its cherry would be popped by a hand forged dog in stead of plastic. Dum bench dog hole.


----------



## richardwootton

Silly bench! She shoulda known the first time is never the best!


----------



## bandit571

Somewhere under all of the tools is a benchtop









A particle board plane stop serve to protect the bench's top while I am chopping away at things, like a plane build..









This will just have to do for a Bondo shot….


----------



## jmartel

August, here's where I'm at with the bench. It's not at all finished, but this is the current state it's been in for the last 8 months or so.


















And this shows the shaft/bearing a bit better pre-chop install










I plan on adding a deadman and adding some drawers underneath. The wagon vice needs tweaking as well.


----------



## August

thanks Jmartel,
well we will boothe figure this out, im actually waiting for the material so i can extended the bearing busing so it too will be supported to the back end of the 6×6 leg,
if you need some machining let me know, and what ever help you need that i can provide no problem,either
and i have ,metal aluminum and brass, if ever you need something, no money involve just whiskey like big red always say


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Man jmart, you gotta give that chop some love. It's looks like a lego


----------



## August

Hey Red what you up to men 
Hey Red u have wishkey today LOL

Hey Jmartel 
What exactly kind of issue are you running Into?
Is the chop the one bending? Or the leg or the shaft?


----------



## jmartel

Not sure what the issue is exactly. I believe the chop might be bending, but it could be the shaft. I ended up just giving up and making spacers for now to get it usable.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Hey brotha. I'm on the homestretch with my joinery bench. Just fitting the last drawers:








-
No whiskey today. It was taco night….therefore Corona's and Enrique Inglesias pandora station. We like to stay true to a theme. Keep it real ya know.


----------



## August

Hey J,
I don't know if you saw how I mounted the bearing to my chop?
But I use. 7×7x1/4 stainless plate,
And as for the shaft I machined the end and tap it 3/8-16
Will be held by a flat bolt 3/8-16 and it will be 4×4x1/4 steel .
I'm hoping that will grab I know the 6×6x1/4 Steel tubing won't bend, so if it bends then reinforce the chop with metal or make it more out of lyptus,,,
I was reading a blog I found from woodwispher
There was a guy that made one .
But after watching his video and reading the blog.
still no info why I don't know he did mention mount it on an angle???
But he also said that he just glue the shaft to the wood , I don't know how strong tat wood be?


----------



## August

Hey red I'm loving your shop men, very spacious and well lighted .


----------



## theoldfart

Red, you were doing great up until the ENRIQUE part, check out Chingnon Spaghetti Western>


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I think it would have to be mounted into the chop with something like this:








-
Of course flipped around and installed flush.

Edit- That would probably be better Kev…..but Enrique and Joh Secada are a blast to make fun of


----------



## August

I see red, I need to post a pic of mine mine will , well in lack if better words it's an over kill,.

Hey j 
I will help you out bud I really think it can work,

I just wish that this people that has it either sell it or share the build oh well.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Uh-oh. Sounds like another side business.


----------



## August

Red red red red red oh men you sir


> ?


?


----------



## August

Hey red I'm using iPhone but after a very closed look at your build men that bench area where the moxon is, that thing is going to be a tank nice men


----------



## widdle

2hp 17" grizz , best tool in my shop…butter


----------



## widdle

wrong neighborhood..nevermind


----------



## August

For me my Laguna sliding table


----------



## jmartel

I epoxied mine into my chop at a 2 degree angle. That thing isn't coming out, and there's no play at all at the joint. It's in solid. The bearing is a really tight fit in the leg. Required a BFH to pound it in. I think my chop is bending. I can't see a 30mm steel shaft bending enough to cause the vice to rack.


----------



## August

LOL love the BFH LOL
Yes sir your right to bend a 30mm requires some doing extremely possible but for what your doing and I'm doing not close…. HMMMMMMM
Well I have or like I said I have access to metal maybe we should cut a 1/2 met steel plate and bolt it to the chop???
Well J Tuesday I will finish my sleave bearing support to make it longer .
How long is the bearing sleave you have?


----------



## john2005

+1 to Lego looking chop.


----------



## jmartel

2-5/8", August. And mine is 1-1/4" bearing/shaft. Thought I had ordered 30mm, but switched to the inch instead of metric due to being cheaper.


----------



## August

Ok cool 
Yeah I know I don't know why they are expensive.
Mine measure almost 5-1/2 but it's I. Metric so I don't know exact measurement .
The reasone for the sleeve is to support the bearing all the way. That's beauty of wood it's supported all the way,
Mine is a tubing so I have to make a sleeve to support the bearing.
Well J
I'll keep my finger cross Tuesday I wish it will work because it will a whole lote smoother than the scissor


----------



## KE4NYV

I built my bench based on the one Matthias Wandel built in this video (I just adjusted the size to fit my garage workshop):


----------



## Iguana

It's been, like, a month since I've had a chance to work on my bench. Feels like I'm on the Stef schedule  But at least I'll have time to get in shape prior to my Bondo pose.

The slab for the top is resting on a small cart so I've been shifting it around as I need to work. PITA, really need to get the bench done!

But Saturday afternoon came around and I found myself with 2 hours of nothing to do. Or, more to the point, 2 hours where I wasn't motivated to do anything on the house build to-do list. Out came the circular saw and some sharp hand tools. Squared off one end of the bench and cut a tongue.

First half of the tongue:









Flip it over and do the second half:









Lotsa mess to clean up.

The end caps and the front board are also milled:









Next blog post will be after I complete the vise end tongue. Sometime before Labor Day, I'm sure…


----------



## August

Nice ^^
Hey mark what kind of chisel is the underneath the router plane?


----------



## Iguana

It is a framing chisel. The blade is 1 1/2" wide and about 11" long, with an 8" (or so) handle. I bought it to do some timber framing work but it also comes in hand as an almighty paring chisel.


----------



## August

I like it cool thanks


----------



## terryR

Wow, am I behind on the forum!

Awesome work, gang…I'm quite jealous of the bench work! Still roofing our chicken coop here…

Mark, Thanks for the lesson on how to shape breadboards…and the jig! Saved those photos for later! 

August, my friend, you are killing me with all these metal lathe photos! Gonna push me to that Precision Matthews 10×30 very soon!!!  Hey, I even stumbled across an MIT website that teaches beginning metal working, cool!

http://techtv.mit.edu/genres/24-how-to/videos/144-machine-shop-8

...carry on…


----------



## August

Don't worry TerryR come June 11 no more metal pics LOL
My power for my garage will up so I can start to pretend to did woodworking.


----------



## terryR

August, that sucks. You too far from Alabama to store your tools in my shop for a while? 

I've got multiple 240 volt receptacles hanging from the ceiling, and plenty of space, just no A/C!


----------



## August

Yes TerryR 
Our village here is luck of better words is all they want is money,
I've been waiting. June 11 I hope no more permit.
Taking about ac men it's been hit here already .


----------



## Slyy

Been a while since I had a chance to drop in here. Man there is some dang fine work going on fellas!

Jason R, welcome to LJ's and nice little bench there! My own just consists of ideas and a vice!

August, I'm anxious to see you get the power going in the shop and shows us your "real" woodwork! I think I'm not the only one excited to see what awesomeness you're gonna crank out!

Man, o man, do I need to get around to a lot of things, least of which is a bench…....


----------



## August

Thanks Jake
But I know nothing about wood working,
Actuallyy first project that I want to try to do is a handplane compartment.
Thanks


----------



## Slyy

Haha, I feel ya August. My first item I've made is a mallet for the on-going Mallet Swap! Doesn't quite make me a woodworker yet….


----------



## August

Yes I saw that trend,
Actually I should make me a hammer I think I can do that LOL
Men oh men
Trying to restore an old hand drill and men it's kicking my butt


----------



## merrill77

This is only marginally workbench related, so I'll give you the short version  I had some time over the past few nights to work on the first 9 drawers (of 17) for my bench. I'm using a combination of techniques - for the tails, I start with an angled fence and spacers on the bandsaw:










Then cut the shoulders:










And after roughing out the waste on the scrollsaw, pare between the tails manually:










Note above that I'm actually USING my workbench….yeaaaaayyyy!

My smallest chisel was too big, so I picked up a Irwin Blue Chip and re-ground the sides as a dovetail chisel:










There's a little more detail over on my thread on NCWW if you're interested.


----------



## Buckethead

Great looking work, Merrill

That's a lot of drawers. I'm shying off the dovetailed drawers because of how much work it actually is. I don't really have the time to dedicate to it. I do need storage for my hand tools, so I need to bust a move on something.


----------



## merrill77

This method feels like it is pretty quick. It is certainly less error-prone (for me) than cutting by hand. I've used it once before on a smaller project and thought that 17 drawers would be a good chance to really get comfortable with the process. So far I've got about 150 minutes in the sides for 11 drawers (only need 9 - I made spares). The pins will be a bit quicker - I'm guessing 60-90 minutes. That feels like it's not bad for 9 dovetailed drawers. The time doesn't count grooving/installing the bottoms, adding false fronts and pulls, mounting, etc.


----------



## Buckethead

I like your method here. I lack a the bandsaw. I do have a porta-band I use in the field. Perhaps it's time to rig up a table for it. A potentially fun or disastrous project in and if itself.


----------



## August

Ok update on the pinless guide using the shaft 
I made my bearing bushing so it will longer and supported to the end of the tubing 
All I need now is 2 pcs 5×5x1/2 plate for the back side 
Here are some pics


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Looks totally Under-built…...hehehe

Chris- diggin your hybrid dovetails.


----------



## Buckethead

That is looking great, August. You're going to have an ultra high end workbench to go with your extensive Lie Neilsen collection!


----------



## ColonelTravis

Man…drooling over the August shop. Sounds kinda gross. And it is. But man…


----------



## August

hey Red LOL
thanks bucket and LOL on LN
Colonel thanks man 
ok here is a dirty mock up tell me where i can improve please thanks

http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf
second one
http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf


----------



## DanKrager

August, this does make one jealous…! Nice piece of furniture. Gonna have to think of the bondo pose pretty soon…
So what's the problem? Nothing some leather faces wouldn't fix I bet. Sure looks smooth. How far out does that thing go? 24" or better?
DanK


----------



## widdle

Nice hardware…Smooth as silk..


----------



## August

Thanks Dan
I don't know the problem to be honest 
But u think there is.
After shooting that video I also realize that the top is only 2-1/2" and I haven't installed the fix jaw, that's why it only had a few inches of bearing surface.
Yes 24" and it is smooth all the way up to 18 inches and then I can feel a little something.
That's only held by clamps.
I'm actually chatting with red and Jmartel we are trying to figure out why problems arise. In the jaw.
Thanks Dan


----------



## August

Thanks widdle
I have videos during the build soon as it's finish I will post thanks


----------



## DanKrager

Oh dear…August…I'm sorry. I misread your post..I read "Here is a dirty muck up…" and that led me to think you had a problem. DOH!
Personally, I don't see the need for more fixed jaw. I think you should try some leather on the two faces and you will be surprised how that increases the holding power. More surface area on your jaws simply means less pressure per square inch which may not help your holding power. The jaw surfaces look slick with finish, too, so it's impressive it held as well as it did.
Have you figured out what to say (in any language) when one of those beautiful handles takes out a knuckle? LOL.
DanK


----------



## August

Thanks Dan 
I actually orderd some today and I learned a new thing that leather is measured in ounce ??? Anyway I can't wait till this project is done.


----------



## theoldfart

Contemplating a sapele chop for my vise, can get a 9"X36" 12/4 piece. Thoughts?


----------



## richardwootton

That sounds like it'd be good and beefy.


----------



## theoldfart

Thats the idea just not sure about the workability of the wood. Also concerned/uninformed about about edge wear.


----------



## ToddJB

Kev, I know that's what Wally has been recently making his saw handles out of, and it seems like he really likes the way it works.


----------



## CL810

Kevin I've never worked with sapele. Sounds like you could fix that. ;-)


----------



## ToddJB

Have you seen the size of his bench? I don't think he's going to have any left over… 9"x36" chop sounds just about right, for that bohemoth.


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks for the input. Think I'll pick it up in the next week or so.


----------



## Buckethead

I thought some wood I have was Sapele, until I saw the Janka scale. It puts Sapele as significantly harder than hard maple, and what I have is considerable softer. What I have is African mahogany, and it seems more than a single species is called the same.

I'm thinking Sapele would make a superior chop, both functionally and cosmetically.

Darn work keeps getting in the way of keeping up with LJ… A good problem to have.


----------



## shampeon

I've got some 8/4 sapele. It's very nice to work. Hard and dense, but planes easily. A 12/4 sapele chop would be amazeballs. It's at least twice as heavy as khaya (aka African 'hog).


----------



## theoldfart

Again, thanks guys, Sapele it is. pics when I get it.


----------



## TerryDowning

Progress on the bench has been slow.

Working on the last mortise of the first set of legs this morning and this happens.









Still have 2 aprons another set of legs, another bench top section and the whole leg vise thing to figure out.

Maybe I'll finish this mortise tonight at least.









I do recommend this method for chopping mortises. Very fast and very accurate using a standard bench chisel. Paul Sellers for the win!


----------



## woodchuckerNJ

The action on that leg vise is awesome August.

Nice and smooth.


----------



## richardwootton

Terry it looks like making a new mallet is in your near future.


----------



## August

Thanks Jeff 
Wait till I finish it I have some new changes 
Damn I need to stop trying to reinvent the wheel LOL


----------



## Pezking7p

Way behind on this thread. Posting to catch up and prove I can still finish my bench before stef.


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, Stef's not the only your going to beat! ;-(


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well, as I posted otherwise I completed the drawers and cabinets for my joinery bench. I should say it's all functional, but it's gonna take awhile for me to line and organized the drawers. 








-
But…way back on the thread I mentioned I wanted to rework the joinery for the top of my joinery bench. The through tenons shrunk on my and got a little gappy. 









So, drill out the pegs(with a slightly larger bit).... and off comes the top. A couple of the pegs came out just like this:








-
Not gonna lie, getting that top off by myself was a workout. But it's off and sitting on my roubo now. After all that exertion I started grilling brats at 10am…hehehe. 








-
I'm gonna rework the moxon a bit and add wedges to the through tenons. You'll all see soon enough


----------



## ToddJB

Red, you're going to run out of shop furniture to tinker with soon… or you gonna remake the sharpening station next with inlays and hand carved coy fish?


----------



## CL810

Does anyone think there was a time where Red did nothing?? Just sat idly watching the world go by? I wonder.


----------



## Buckethead

Red already remodeling his setup before the rest of us even finish the first piece.

So why were you interrogating children, Red? (Grilling brats)

Yesterday, I got me a end type vise. (Poor sentence structure?) Ima slap that puppy on. But wait. Torrential rain… No biggie… Except when a client calls to inform you their roof is leaking. (It wasn't, it was their rusty old, Gerry rigged, termination cap on their chimney chase) nevertheless, I had to cease and desist wood massaging procedures to put minds at ease. Dinner time by the time I got home. So I played a bit this morning, although I do have more pressing issues :





































I did everything but the cove by hand, as all the cool kids have confiscated the Stanley 45's and such. I'm just a lonely dork left to make do with the router.

No more time for play today…. Next up:


----------



## Pezking7p

Bucket, love it. Working by hand is fun!

Red: Your ability to focus on shop furniture (and NICE shop furniture, at that) is amazing. I'm completely distracted by "real" projects. My shop suffers.

Tried to cut the ends of my bench square last night using skill saw. I fought the saw and the saw won.


----------



## CL810

Bucket, that looks really nice.


----------



## August

hey red looks like your zipping thru projects men very nice….

mine on the other hand is a stand still till my 10-1/4 osage make it inn

bucket men you too is moving fast og yeah you just to throw that shoulder plane photo huh LOL


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Andy- I read that to my wife. She said, "No, not really. Maybe when your sleeping….but even then you think that's a waste of time." ;-)

Very nice on the chop Bucket. I always chicken out on making them too ornate.


----------



## TerryDowning

1 Apron glued up.










Still to go
Another Apron,
1 more leg (and assemble legs)

Dado the aprons
Dry fit aprons
Mount aprons
Mount first slab

Glue up second slab
Glue up well board

Fit and mount those and I still need to work out the vises.

Minimal progress is better than no progress I guess.


----------



## Buckethead

Terry, you're flying through this build! Keep em coming.


----------



## JayT

Minimal progress is better than no progress I guess.

Yep, and if you don't believe it, just ask stef.

Bucket, is that a Lee Valley front vise?


----------



## chrisstef

Well, here's my real excuse for not working on my bench. See, ive got a new gal pal and as you guys can imagine, Ive been busy doin, ya know, stuff. Im not really a gloating type but I might as well show you guys what ive been doing.


----------



## Buckethead

Well… It's better to come round with excuses than not at all. Speaking of round, is that a BBW fetish you're working on there, stef?


----------



## August

Damn I was still eating


----------



## theoldfart

Mama Cas still alive?


----------



## Pezking7p

How'd you get into my honeymoon pics????


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Moxon is going to be a little more flush mount. Okay now I'm really done for today, I have to work tonight.

Before:








After:


----------



## Mosquito

I like the flush-mount moxon, Red, but can I ask the practical use for it? Presumably, whatever you use the moxon for to clamp, will fit between the two screws, wouldn't it?


----------



## JayT

Sorry, stef, gotta throw the flag on that one. 15 yard penalty for re-using a pic from another thread.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Actually I clamp odd shaped things on the ends a bit…...but no huge functional reasoning Mos. It just stuck out 4" and kinda blocked the drawers below.


----------



## August

I like it red that's why I decided to make mine flush also


----------



## Buckethead

JayT… Sorry. I overlooked your question about the vise. It is a lee valley front vise. I had intended to install a wagon vise, but got a bit hasty when I put the dovetailed mortises in the top. I didn't allow enough cantilever to accommodate a wagon vise. Dad diddly doggoned leg is in the way. Er… I mean… This is exactly how I planned it.


----------



## Mosquito

Red, that's as good of a reason as I'd need to do the same, even just a "I think it looks better" is enough for me lol I was just curious, that's all


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Foul….

Permanently mounted, flush-fit front vise is no longer a Moxon.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ok Smitty. Make sure not to do that in your shop.

I'm still gonna call it a moxon though. Just to drive you nuts


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I lean towards this interpretation, re: double screws. My leg vise is otherwise sufficient at the bench. No joiner's bench, it's a workbench I need (and use).

Not to offend, bless my heart, just my thoughts. To each his own.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, kinda seems like it's splittin hairs though. It has a different name just because of the way it's installed….even though it has the exact same hardware and use?

Is my end vise not really an end vise because I used front vise hardware? Way I see it anyhow.


----------



## Buckethead

The disharmony… I blame stef.

My bench is bedazzled.









Got my end vise (face vise installed as an end vise) hitched up. Took a while, but was fairly straightforward. I could snap a couple shots, but the green still lives. Need to kill the slime and paint it black. And still need to drill dog holes. But this baby is crowning. Like 10cm. Nearly time for that episiotomy.

I suppose next comes postpartum depression. Sigh.


----------



## john2005

Wait, wait, wait. Hold the phone. Can you actually bless your own heart? C'mon Smitty, we're on to you


----------



## Iguana

Bucket, were you able to masaage all the knots out of your wood?


----------



## richardwootton

Mark, middle school was riddled with me trying to massage all the knots out, but my parents and sister kept interrupting. Let's hope bucket has more success…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

-It has a different name because of the way it's installed?

Pretty much, and it's a differing use if you read the blog link above. A Moxon, the vise moxon depicts, is definitely not a face vise for dovetailing. Like ebay folks calling bench planes blocks.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

But it is splitting hairs, I guess. Back to the regular programming.


----------



## Buckethead

Mark… My wood remains well massaged, even if I have to hire someone.


----------



## merrill77

@Red said: "I'm still gonna call it a moxon though."

Welcome to the vagaries of spoken/written language. If you google "moxon vise", the results on the first two pages all refer to a twin-screw vise that is temporarily mounted on top of a work surface when used. In addition, Benchcrafted's Moxon page says "Joseph Moxon wasn't the only one to describe this type of vise. Roubo and Felebien also document a double-screw vise that is held to the top of a bench with clamps or holdfasts in order to facilitate certain work." Clearly, contemporary usage of "moxon vice" refers to a twin-screw vice temporarily mounted on top of a bench.

Ironically, the picture on that page from the Joseph Moxon text (which was Christopher Schwarz's inspiration), seems to be permanently installed on the front of the bench in a fashion typical of a face vice. That makes you technically correct, but still wrong under contemporary usage. Take your pick


----------



## Buckethead

Just for the record… I am right about everything. All you other slim shadies just be perpetrating.


----------



## jmartel

Well then please stand up, bucket. Please stand up.


----------



## theoldfart

He is standing up, he's just short like Red!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Still one of my favorite bench pics. Planes everywhere, too.


----------



## bandit571

Ah, Paul Sellers, BEFORE the youtube shows?


----------



## bandit571

Have to be, as I don't have the room for that chair…..


----------



## Bertha

posting to get to the bottom. Good to see you guys.


----------



## Bertha

Smitty, look at that Dracula stake in your bench picture. That's some manly construction.


----------



## bandit571

Another Drive-by sighting of that Fleabag? Or, is it going to stick around?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Gotta have one nearby, Al. One never knows who may stop by our shops, right? ;-)


----------



## woodcox

Great pic, I like the Rockefeller lighting. Is that tiered stove in the corner?


----------



## DanKrager

Nice sentimental pic ^, but I think the "tiered stove" is a DC….  I guess when you paint you can do any scale you want to, but it looks like a picture taken with BRK's camera equipped with selective scaling similar to fisheye effect…
DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks like a set of humidity pots on the firebox…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

re: moxon Ya, I'm pretty sure I was just calling it a moxon because that's the name I learned from Schwarz and benchcrafted. Evidently they aren't historically correct if they're calling a vise built primarily for dovetailing a "moxon" as well. The name has probably taken on its own life, much like the roubo bench.

re: Joinery bench. There's really not much out there about the kind of joinery bench I wanted to build. No books that I know of. I've seen variations in shops like Tolpin's. That part of the reason I've built it in stages. I've gotten to work with it and make changes along the way. I'm fairly happy with it so far.


----------



## TerryDowning

That's all that really matters BRK. It's your bench and you're the one using it. As long as it works for you, that's all that really matters.

It's a nice Bench BTW, Very well done.


----------



## Buckethead

No one noticed that in my quoting of the illustrious slim shady, that I misquoted?

This right after I said I was right about everything…. Slim shady doesn't know his own lyrics.

So taking the hardware off my *END VISE* was pretty easy. Had to paint her up. The green just isn't flattering against my love handles. These slabs of gorgeous need the slimming effect of black.

Speaking of love handles, in my exuberance at the WW store, I forgot to get a handle when I got my *END VISE*. I don't have a lathe. I don't even have a spoke shave. Dag nabbit! CURSEWORDS!

I can do dis. I grabbed a very homely looking scrap of walnut and commenced to whittling. About two hours later, I had a rudimentary dowel. (I can hear you laughing)

Since I still owe the bench, the dead man, and the vise chops full dog holios, I will refrain from the bondo pose for now. (When I do one at the gay bar, all the guys go nuts)

Here's the *END VISE*.










Wait… That's not it… That's…errr…. Something else. Here it is:


----------



## CL810

Very nice indeed bucket.


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks Cl810…. You're always so nice to comment.

Guys, I cleaned the garage a bit too. That photo shows our collection of boxes that usually goes into a big contractor garbage bag. Today is trash day. I'm not that big of a slob. I promise.

But I gotta get a better location for the bondo pose. Maybe I will wheel the roubo on down to the gay bar. Let you guys meet "da crew".


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bucket- your such a friggin character. I bet your even funnier in person.

The end vise looks great. I see you got rid of the booger green


----------



## woodcox

Nice bucket, a lot of real estate within that chop. Green paint had to go here too.

Red, how far below your elbow is joinery bench?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

woodcox- the top of the joinery bench is like 46"....about 3-4" below my elbow. Here's a shot of another LJ and I standing by it. Sorry to dispel the midget myths


----------



## Buckethead

Hands like a bunch of bananas. Do you push the trains with those?


----------



## richardwootton

Red looking at that picture I thought the plane sitting on that board was a giant transitional jointer. Obviously I've been drinking already.


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, you can't dispel the midget myths with them still hiding behind the bench…!
Nice shop.
DanK


----------



## August

No wonder why red could reach the gutter with his flip flop,
Nice SmallRed LOL


----------



## DanKrager

Bucket, you did a very nice job on the vise handle! That bench is a piece of furniture, and the handle does it justice. Somehow there's a certain charm about things that are not "machine made", like a carved dowel. IMHO it's a keeper.
DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Whittlin' is nice, Bucket. My leg vise handle was created from square stock w/ a Crafstman knuckle cap block…love it, will never swap it out. Way to adapt, looks great too.


----------



## August

You know what I have to some how make a end vice for my bench too.


----------



## terryR

Awesome work on here lately! Just sayin'

Love your bench, Bucket, that chop is a thing of beauty that you'll enjoy seeing while you work!

Holy crap, Red, did you grow a little since the last photo? I mean, do ya even own a ladder? 

Re *moxon vice*: In Joseph Moxon's The Art of Joinery , plate 4, top right image, figure g shows clearly a vice lookin thingy that protrudes from the bench…

Of course, He also mis-labels a miter square as a tenon saw, drew images which have no corresponding text, copies French planes drawn by Felibien…so it's a wonder we name this tool after Moxon! 

I move we call anything mounted flush with the bench top a 'Red vice' and anything clamped to the bench top a 'Smitty vice'!

LOL!


----------



## Brit

So if I mount it flush, but secure it with clamps, does that make it a Red Smitty?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That would make it silly, Andy.


----------



## TerryDowning

Nice work Bucket, looking good.

Progress:
First Apron flat and ready for Dados









Last leg in the clamps and drying.









I did mention that the front left leg would have to be beefier to support the wedge powered leg vise.










Re-purposing some dunnage I grabbed from work a while back. A 4×6 Doug Fir beam. The dowels are filling bolt holes where equipment was mounted I drilled out 3/4 and set the dowels just to fill the holes. Adds a bit of color. The mess in the back is where the Dowel blew out (I didn't get the hole as clean as I should have and the end blew out when I drove the dowel in. Gluing in a large chip from the blow out and some other chips to fill the void. We'll see how it turns out.


----------



## AnthonyReed

"Hah! Bench thought its cherry would be popped by a hand forged dog in stead of plastic. Dum bench dog hole." - Hahah!

Fantastic work Mark.

So beautiful BRK. Damn fine work Sir.

"… or you gonna remake the sharpening station next with inlays and hand carved coy fish?" - I want to see that.

That chop came out great Bucket the bench looks tits too. Well done.

Nice progress Terry, still love that saw bench.


----------



## TerryDowning

Yeah, I'm digging it too. It's a beast! and has handled everything thrown at it so far.


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks for the kind words, gentlemen. It's funny how such simple gestures can brighten one's day. I get silly, because that's me, but I really do enjoy a kind word or compliment.

Terry, that saw bench is badass. I need to copy it. Did you blog the build?

One other thing I'll say to potential bench builders: pare the size down to a minimum if space is an issue. Then double the size again. I went small. 20.5" x 73". That is too small. My thinking was " It's for planing, and cutting. All I need is enough." Enough, isn't enough. If I had it to do over, I would make it bigger, space issues be damned.


----------



## TerryDowning

Thanks for the kind words on the Saw Bench. It really is a work horse. More of a mini bench.

The Blog Series is here if you're interested.
http://lumberjocks.com/TerryDowning/blog/series/6835

and the project


As for bench size, I agree, bigger is better. That being said, the one I'm building is pretty much max for where it needs to live 60" x 25 ish I don't have the final measurements yet as it is a work in progress. That is all the space I currently have to put it in. I would love to have 3' x 8' but I just don't have the real estate. I'll need to relocate or remove other items if I want bigger and I'm just not ready to go there yet.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Hehehe….


----------



## JayT

Dang, Red, that had to be a beast to move. Are you even tall enough to work on the top edge?


----------



## Buckethead

I have imagined something like this happening on my bench. Red is doing it. The hehehe is a very appropriate commentary as well.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, if I tried that with mine, the family jewels would be on the floor. ;0)


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Guys, don't forget, this is a scale model. It's like dollhouse furniture.

In all seriousness, that's pretty friggin cool.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

More hehehehe. It was a little tricky getting it up there. I had my wife spot….but she's 5' 1", 110 lbs…so not much help

Ya Jay, it's about chest height I should be able to work on it. Planning on inlaying a walnut strip to hide the old dowel hole. Not sure though, might just use another strip of white oak. We'll see.


----------



## merrill77

On the bench sizing: larger isn't necessarily better - it really depends on the space available, the shop layout and what else you have nearby. My shop is relatively small (~400 sq ft) and I built my bench 2×6 ft. It is arranged so that I can work on it from all sides. I do not wish for a larger bench - as that would, by necessity, eat into the only open working area I have in my shop. That said, when I am standing at the bench on the most frequently used side (where the tool drawers will be if I ever finish them), there is a 10ft long set of cabinets with countertop immediately behind me. As I've tried to forced myself into a habit of setting tools and parts on the countertop instead of the bench, my 2×6 bench has started feeling larger…almost luxuriously large.


----------



## Pezking7p

Red your shop is filthy! I see tools out, a stray bike helmet, junk sitting on your jointer…Everything all right with you?

Cut the ends of my bench last night, ended up used a sawzall to cut them, and then a router and a straightedge to get the edges clean-ish. Then a bunch of work with a LA block plane and then the LA jack to even everything out. Planing end grain SUCKS, and I'm glad I have nice planes to do it with.

Next up is building and fitting my wagon vise hardware. I'm building guides/tracks out of sheet metal, but I'm looking for input on how to attach the tracks to the bottom of my bench??? Wood screws? There has to be a better option.


----------



## Buckethead

Let's see some pics on that Dan!

Pics or it didn't happen.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I hear you Pez. I've been short on shop time and I turned into a filthy slob

well, yay or nay? I'm thinking it would look good with my walnut drawer fronts.









plus I could plane it flush… or leave it protruding for some dimension.


----------



## Buckethead

I like it, Red. You might consider banding the entire top, but then it might appear to be hiding a glue up rather than just enhancing the large stock.

I wanna see that top clamped upright in your leg vise.


----------



## wabisabi

I am throwing my newly completed workbench on the woodpile and dedicating it to all the members of Lumberjocks who inspired its creation and for the virtual hand holding and education during the build. This is a marvelous community. Thank you.

About a year ago I move into a 40-year-old termite ridden, leaky, tumble down and unfurnished shack and determined to repair and furnish it myself.

I built a pair of saw horses, threw a couple of thick planks on top, bolted on a vise and viola, I had a workbench.

The nearest box store is hours away, but there are some locals selling rough cut lumber, and I do mean rough; slabs free-hand cut with a chain saw. So, this bench started life as trees in the local forest

My brother gave me a old bread box planer with a motor that had an excruciating whine and it soon died. 
So much for dreams of quickly creating my own dimensional lumber. I ordered a new motor (it took months for it to arrive via a circuitous route of missteps) and in the meantime picked up a No 7 Marsh plane from Ebay and set to work making dimensional lumber.

I noticed two things right away: sore muscles, and workbench rack.

So a trip to the interwebs found me wandering the pages of Lumberjocks
completely entranced and amazed by the beautiful workbenches and wonderful sense of camaraderie.

I was hooked.

I bought a pile of boards from a local farmer with exotic sounding names
of aguacatillo, corrallio, maquil and guapinol, 
and set them aside to dry.

The thicknesses were so variable with some very deep chain marks that planing to thick flat pieces this project wants was impractical due to the loss of material required to arrive at completely flat/square. So there are gaps, blemishes and chain marks here and there as an aesthetic decision. The amount of wood chips and saw dust created was embarrassingly wasteful.

As far as construction goes, even though it looks like it should be a straight forward process, building such a bench is a big jig saw puzzle, even with good road maps and tutorials such as the ones found here. This is because of the variables of tools, materials and shop configuration, time, patience and skills available to the builder. It can be a real brain tease choosing between the various options for completing any particular task (e.g. whether to use hand tools or power tools, and which ones and how to best employ them). Though I used a mix of hand tools and power tools, I usually felt better after going full galoot. Making the transition from butcher to galoot has become the heart of the creative woodworking journey for me. Bench building gives that full expression

My most developed talent is making a mess. So I took all the comments about tool trays becoming garbage bins to heart and used a narrower plane stop/tool holder instead. I am happy with the compromise.

Apropos to nothing at all, of all the new/used tool acquisitions (and there were many),
the shoulder plane was the most satisfying new find. Shoulder planes are nifty tools indeed. I find myself often reaching for the shoulder plane as the tool of choice for a variety chisel/planing tasks.

I'm please with the way this bench turned out and have a long to do list of furniture construction projects lined up to put it through it paces.

OK, enough of ramble on
</ramble>

Lumberjocks I salute you!

vises not installed:









In the shop:









Plane stop raised:









Fianally, a bondo pose:


----------



## merrill77

wabisabi, the bench looks great!


----------



## Buckethead

I'm liking your style , wabisabi. Not a peep, then BAM! Complete workbench, crafted by a seasoned veteran.

Bench looks great, and the write up was superb. Thanks!


----------



## Mosquito

Love the story behind it, and the product. and Welcome!


----------



## Pezking7p

Red, leave it protruding and style it after greene and greene inlays.

Wabisabi, very nicely done. Where are you located?


----------



## CL810

Red, I'm liking that walnut strip. +10

Wabisabi, you are the stealth man! Great bench and story.


----------



## wabisabi

Thank you everyone for the kudos

I am not much of a blogger, but wanted to give something back to the community

I feel uncomfortable with the description 'seasoned veteran'. Even though I remember my dad
who was a pretty good amateur carpenter, teaching me to drive nails into scrap 2×4s when I was about five or six and I've worked in construction at various times. I've even built a couple of houses (with help). This bench and my latest attempts at cabinets have elevated the level of the endeavor. So I'm a student of the craft

The disclaimer is to encourage others with modest skills to jump in

The amount of satisfaction that I derived from working on and completing this surprised me and I'm pretty jaded

The bench is located in Mexico


----------



## richardwootton

Wavisabi, what a great read and awesome bench! Where do you live to have such access to exotic woods?


----------



## richardwootton

Red, I totally like the walnut strip. I also like the idea of leaving it proud.


----------



## chrisstef

Hey RW, might wanna peek just one line above your first post there 

Wabitsabi - comin in fresh off the street with some high cheese, Rick Vaughn style. Gorgeous bench and props on the bondo pose!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Wavisabi- Wonderful bench and story. You should just copy and paste that story and have it be your first project post. Glad we might have been even a little inspiration for something like that.

Pez- I was all geared up to leave that band protuding…..then I remembered the my moxon/twin screw vise/thingamahbobber is mounted flush with the front bench edge. Oh well. I'll plane it flush.

Bucket- the banding might look good on the end grain, but I don't think it would cooperate with the wood movement. Remember your big "Doh";-)


----------



## JayT

Sweet bench, wabisabi, and props for doing a bondo.

Red, to be honest, I'm not sure about the walnut strip. I'm a proponent of where you have to add something in a case like this, hide it in plain sight by making it a feature instead of trying to camouflage it, so more white oak isn't the answer, either.

I think it's not seeing the top in context that is probably throwing my perception-the single strip of walnut looks lonely, but will probably fit right in with the drawer fronts.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Trust me Jay, I really wanted to see it in context…..but there was no way I was gonna to lift that top and drop it in place(by myself) until I was really to put it there for good. This has been a friggin workout. Even for somebody with huge guns like me…lawl.

It's already glued in. I think it'll look fine though. Walnut wedgies in the top will be P-I-M-P.


----------



## JayT

My woodworking guns.


----------



## woodcox

Great bench wabi! Congrats on the journey with this destination. Wedged rails and your stop are very cool.


----------



## JayT

posting to relieve the traffic jam


----------



## BigRedKnothead

My kids are so impressed with my guns that they bought me this great t-shirt 








-









hope that helps your Friday.


----------



## theoldfart

Now I understand gun control! Looks like Red is unarmed.


----------



## theoldfart

ALSO, I am not going to acknowledge that great bench by a new guy. I am not going to salute the workmanship of some upstart. There are rules, the most important of which is don't make old people look bad. We just go SLOWER that's all. Now wasabi is one of the best condiment ever invented, and this new guys name is very inventive and clever but so what. I'm sulking Phbbbtt

Awesome work, and great pose. Now knock it off so Stef and I can save some face.


----------



## August

Hey red is LN helping you push the muscle out!???
LOL


----------



## BTimmons

Old Fart,

Not to nitpick, but the new guy's name isn't wasabi, it's wabisabi. A Japanese design aesthetic that's all about embracing imperfection.

I'll go back to lurking now. Carry on.


----------



## Buckethead

TOF getting the Dangerfield treatment.


----------



## Pezking7p

Red, don't plane it flush! take the walnut band and wrap it around your chop! Leave it protruding around the whole thing = pimp status. (I see you've glued the whole thing already. tsk tsk)

EDIT: Also, can we stop drooling over Red's guns (I'm watching you, Bucket) and offer me some advice about attaching this wagon vise guide to the underside of my bench?


----------



## Buckethead

The man has guns! Sue me!


----------



## theoldfart

Brian, the fractured name was intentional. No disrespect intended, in fact I strive for imperfection.


----------



## August

Men this leg vice is kicking my butt









Hopefully with this extreme bearings and flange and shaft support I can have some progress
Machining this from a solid 5" shaft

Need help in 12-1/4 flat sawn white oak anybody?


----------



## Buckethead

Is that 12/4 flat oak you seek August? (3" thick)

Often guys will laminate it from thinner stock.


----------



## August

Yes bucket yes I can't find one here in my area I want tit to be solid to no chance of movement 
If you have some I'll pay market price thanks


----------



## Buckethead

I have no oak. No 12/4 of anything. If I did, it would be in the mail, gratis. But if you can find some 4/4 stock locally for a reasonable price, it would glue up and be just as strong. There might be someone here with some 12/4 oak, but someone with a piece on hand large enough for a chop might be tougher to find.

Then again… This is a resourceful and generous bunch.


----------



## August

Yeah thanks bucket here I go again
Trying to make wood feel like my metal I need to stop my dream of doing woodworking


----------



## Buckethead

Not at all, August. 12/4 stock is always difficult to find, especially when you need it.

While I don't believe the glue up 12/4 would be weaker (actually I think it would be marginally stronger) I still like the idea of solid stock for aesthetics.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

August- I thought you'd appreciate the LN guns pic. My guns have only shrunk since my basketball days, so they need all the help they can get

And…don't beat yourself up buddy. There's a learning curve with anything. We're here to help. 
Bucket is correct in saying a lamination will be just as strong as solid stock. If you have your heart set on 12/4 white oak, here is a source….albeit a silly expensive one. 
http://www.cswoods.com/csw_thickstock.php

I have a hard time getting 12/4, but I can get all the 8/4 you'd want. It's just the shipping would be silly on that. I'd still be willing to send you some, but I think you be just as happy with something you could source locally…..even if you have to laminate.


----------



## August

Lol Red just teasing scared of you man


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Quit playing games with my heart Auggie….lawl.

Actually I wasn't able to find 12/4 for the breadboards on my roubo….and I've never really liked them since. I'll replace 'em someday. 









When laminating, it looks better if you can get the parts from the same board.


----------



## merrill77

Here ya go: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261489081647
There's enough for 3 leg vices :>


----------



## shampeon

I've been quietly getting the stretchers done, and, well, it's really starting to come together, muchachos.


----------



## August

Merrill
Thanks message sent LOL thanks


----------



## August

Thanks Red (double guns)
Yeah price is not friendly but I'm just wanting this so called bench of mine done

I'll wait for the eBay guy

But I book mark that link also lots of nice wood








Need thick wood to accommodate this huge bearing I put together LOL


----------



## theoldfart

Ian, criss cross gonna be coooooool. Bench is devine!


----------



## JayT

Bench is looking sweet, Ian.


----------



## Buckethead

Wow, Shamp… I'm floored. Not only beautiful, but a Very smart approach doing all your joinery/mortising beforehand. Having the bench assembled then adding the leg vise was not optimal. Alas, I am a rookie and always eager to complete a phase. Better to plan ahead to save the old back.


----------



## richardwootton

Lookin' sweet there Shamp! Thanks for that infill shot also…


----------



## woodcox

Too pretty for the wall Ian. Simply dope.

Macho metal there August.


----------



## CL810

Champion, oh my,my. Please hurry! You and Kevin are the biggest teasers. Get 'er done!


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, I wish!


----------



## CL810

Am I gonna have to drive out to Massachusetts and kick some butt into gear?? :-0


----------



## Buckethead

Watching Paul Sellers. It always bolsters my confidence. We'll se that diminished if I get a chance at some shop time tomorrow.

Edit: additionally, Ian… The three angled legs and one straight is very impressive. wait… That's two straight legs and a camera causing some distortion… Oh well… Still impressed. You're a big picture guy. Great foresight and execution. I'm gushing.


----------



## theoldfart

Bring it on buddy! Just remember you show up you work. Hand fitting 5" tenons and dovetails…......


----------



## shampeon

Slow and steady is what I've been aiming for. Sort of. Thanks for the encouragement and nice words.

That infill is a gen-u-wine Don Wilwol, aka LumberJock DonW. It's a shooting plane. I was using it to trim the end grain in the dovetail tails.


----------



## merrill77

I made a bit more progress on my drawers this week.

Did the pin cuts with a tilting fence and spacers on the bandsaw:










Then hog out the waste at the scroll saw:










After a little fine-tuning to ensure each joint fits, the router table with shallow pattern-cutting bit makes quick work of finishing the sockets between the pins:










I have a stack of drawer parts waiting for bottoms and fronts:










I've posted the long version of this work over on NCWW, if you are interested in the entire process.


----------



## shampeon

Ok, let's get to work on that chop and criss-cross.

















I was within 1/64" of the mark on the opposite side while boring that hole for the screw. Pimp status: renewed.

And for those who have been scared off by Schwartz and others saying it was difficult to install the Benchcrafted criss-cross, all I can say is that it's not been a major issue for me with the retrofit kit. If you can mortise a big ass mortise and use some sort of router (electric or hand-I used both) to make sure the bottom is parallel to the top, you can do it.


----------



## Buckethead

Holy cow, Merrill! That's a mountain of dovetails.

Shamp is bumping the thread as he nears the finish line… Need. Those. Poses.


----------



## theoldfart

1/64'th !!!!!!!! Man had laser eyes. Impressive work, I feel inspired/intimidated.


----------



## terryR

Major pimp status renewal, Ian.

I don't think I can see 1/64th with my glasses on…very impressive with a gorgeous old brace!


----------



## richardwootton

Yeah Ian, that brace is the bee's knee's, super pimp status like. a. BAWSE.


----------



## theoldfart

"a. BAWSE" ? three bottles of wine, brain not deciphering!


----------



## CL810

Great work Shamp! Pimp status renewed and get some spinners for the wheels!

I think it's the regular criss cross that has a unique challenge due to the pins that must be parallel to each other and dead on horizontal. But I don't think it should scare anyone off, just a heads up to make sure people are aware of the consequences if it's off. Schwarz was using threaded rod for the screw which would have less play to allow the chop to "square-up" at closing. I have some pics that illustrate the issue here . LJ Jusfine covers it as well in this blog post.


----------



## richardwootton

Sorry old timer, young folk talk. Translation; like a boss. Then again, I wrote that post after I'd downed a few my own bad self.


----------



## theoldfart

Gawd, I'm feeling effing old! Words are confusing me, 'tanks Richard.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ian's pimp status was never in jeopardy. Neither is mine









Wedgies are looking good. Might have to make some butterflies for a couple splits…..or just for fun.


----------



## john2005

Ian, friggen killer. That's comin together real clean.

That's a lot of DTs Merrill!

Red definitely on the butterflies.


----------



## Pezking7p

Bench is looking sweet shamp.

Merrill I didn't realize you were in NC. I never go over to ncww because it moves so slow, but I need to get involved with some people locally. I don't know anyone in real life who actual woodworks.

Red, you're a tease.

Though I would be working on the bench this weekend, not looking good so far. Spent yesterday mowing and fixing broken crap at my rental house. Supposed to fix more crap today and I need to finish my mallet.


----------



## Buckethead

I just like the way Shamp strolls in and says (without saying) "oh… That BC crisscross that whipped Schwarz's A$$?... I slapped it in real quick". I have always admired the crisscross.


----------



## terryR

Old fart, don't feel too bad….I have to use the urban dictionary at least once a week to keep up! LOL! only 4 months till I turn 49… damn the big numbers sure approach quicker, IMO.

Red, why not sell that gorgeous bench to me, and just start from scratch? That will make it easier for ya to keep up with Ian and Clayton!  My joinery skills are years behind you guys, and I could live with a few gaps on that bench. just sayin'

For something completely different…how do you guys usually go about moving an entire bench to another state? No stairs for me to deal with (!), how about laying it on its side bolting on casters, and rolling it in one piece to a trailer? OK, how about a 525 pound table saw? 

I sorta thought the humidity in my shop was being wrongly measured since the meter always reads 70%! But, my wife got me a weather station for the backyard for Christmas…and the humidity here is 70-85%! Almost ALL the time…Goodness gracious, get me to CO as fast as possible, so my exotic wood supply can re-dry a bit, and my tools stop rusting as soon as I set them down!


----------



## Buckethead

Terry, by happy chance, my bench fits on a furniture dolly I replaced/upgraded the casters on. I tilt it back and roll the dolly then lift the dolly to fit right under the stretcher. Set the front down, and bam! It's on the dolly, about 1/2" off the ground. This would work if you have stretchers. Depending on their height, of course. Getting it up a ramp would require more clearance at the bottom.

A move to Colorado sounds like a dream for those of us who have long been in the humidity zone.


----------



## terryR

^yeah, definitely a dream come true for me! I don't care much for the locals here…

hmmm…custom dolly sounds like a plan! I also have an engine crane, but it's a handful alone.


----------



## theoldfart

^ you going mobile? CO? permanent?


----------



## terryR

...permanent.
New house, new shop, new shed…this 1860's house has beat me.


----------



## theoldfart

Big change my man. Where a bouts in CO?


----------



## terryR

My wife is an engineer that builds secret (ssshhh) stuff for the Defense Dept. And it just so happens her company has a sister office in Colorado Springs. All politics, but the company is dying to have one of their own out with the CO team…lucky for us! 

Honestly, I'm lucky to have such a good wife! She understands completely when I say I'm wasting my time and skills anywhere outside the shop. She's seen my practice dovetails, and last few tools…and encourages me to learn from you guys and even seek out a school out west. Just watching you guys, and restoring old tools has me close to making furniture for our home! I just need more shop time than this AL farm can allow, this 160 acres is TOO big for our aging needs! LOL.

edit, sorry for takin over the thread…


----------



## shampeon

Yeah, I agree that the regular criss-cross might be a lot harder to install, especially if your legs are particularly stout.

Congrats on the move to Colorado, Terry. I'll +1 making a dolly for the bench, unless you plan on regularly moving it in your new shop. In that cast, maybe make something more permanent, like a flip-up plate with wheels on one end.

For your table saw, I'd break it down as much as I could. Motor off, cast-iron top off, wings off.


----------



## theoldfart

DARPA?


----------



## Pezking7p

Nice terry. You're in AL now? Gonna be nice to not have to deal with so much land. I only have 3 acres and sometimes I wish I had a condo with 0 acres.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Good luck in the move, terry. I'll tell ya, your farm is my dream. I'm stuck in suburbia in northern virginia where driving in traffic is like having a perpetual herpes outbreak. My wife lived in Denver way back when she was getting her graduate degree and has wanted to move back to CO ever since. Apparently it's a pretty swell place to live.


----------



## merrill77

@john2005 @buckethead Yeah, it is a good sized stack, but it only covers 9 of the 17 drawers for the bench  That's already more than I've done in my entire WW life. I assembled the first one yesterday and cut boards for the remaining 8 bottoms. Hopeful to get a few more assembled today.

@Pezking7p Are you in NC? I'm in Raleigh. NCWW is a fantastic group if you're local. There are lots of opportunities to get together in real life. Lunches, workshops, shop crawls and an annual picnic (with awesome raffle prizes). I learned to spray finish from one guy, inlay banding from another. If you ever need to get something done that you don't have the right machine for, there is always someone close by willing to help. One group is building moxon vices together, traveling from shop to shop on weekends. They also run an outreach program to teach basic WWing to Wounded Warriors and kids. If you are in the area, it really is a must join group. I can't say enough good things about it.


----------



## Pezking7p

Merrill, I'm a member over there (I'm in greensboro) but I never check the forums. I guess I need to stop in to a weekly chat or something like that.


----------



## donwilwol

terry, you ARE taking the walnut barn with you….RIGHT?

I have dreams of that barn!!


----------



## richardwootton

Surely your wife won't mind you grabbing that walnut now!


----------



## terryR

^LOL!

Remember, only the LOFT is walnut, the rest is just QSWO and cedar. And, it's petrified from being in the open for 90 years. I just had some Lignum laugh at me this week when I tried to plane it flat…cannot imagine working that barn!

Of course, you could build 'rustic' stuff with it…that's in style now, I think!


----------



## Buckethead

Thickness sander FTW,


----------



## donwilwol

the quote of the week

the rest is …*just*... QSWO and cedar.


----------



## CL810

On the road headed to Massachusetts.









Gonna light a fire under Kevin. First stopover:


----------



## Buckethead

I heard rumor of a house to be demoed in Indiana. Word is there's lumber to be salvaged.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Haha Don. That's the first thing I thought, "shoot we gotta get that walnut outta Terry's barn. Surely the new owners won't appreciate it."

Andy, are you and Kev really gonna get together while your out there?

Pez- ya I'm teasin. I gotta save some thunder for the project post. This joinery bench has been quite a ride.


----------



## Pezking7p

This happened:


----------



## widdle

Get em cl810..good man..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Not sure what I'm lookin at there Pez.


----------



## Pezking7p

Ran into some snags making the wagon vise today. If I had this to do over, I would just buy a stock vise screw from LV or LN. Doing the machining to hold the screw captive has been very challenging, as you can see from my photo above where I tried to use a hole saw in reverse.

I'm going to go back and machine out a part above the screw so I can have access to the hardware while installing. I'll make a removable plate to cover the hole.


----------



## Buckethead

It looks like a spade bit going through the end grain for a wagon vise, and through the back side of a dad style hole saw too. I'm stumped.

Edit: Pez got in as I typed. Somewhat confirming. Couldn't fit the hole saw in from the opposite side so he improvised.

PIMP. Ghetto pimp, but pimp.


----------



## widdle

Looks like a hassle…


----------



## Pezking7p

Yah, I couldn't fit the drill in from that side so I used the spade but to turn the hole saw. Ghetto, but it worked. Really I should have just cut out a deeper slot for the nut to fit.

Was it a hassle? Only the last part. I guess I'm 2 hours down due to poor design on my part. I learned something and had fun, so I guess that's worth something.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, give a shout when you hit the Mass border. We'll be leaving for Maine on Saturday so hurry up. Take ya rust hunting' at Liberty Tool and Hull Cove!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I see Pez. I've got one of these if you need it. Swing by in the morning and you and borrow it








-
Probably is a bit of a pain, but hopefully it'll be worth the cash you saved.


----------



## Pezking7p

Haha, I needed one of those real bad, overnight it and I'll pay you back for it 

I've got about $30 in my vise, so I'm not complaining.


----------



## john2005

All in favor of a car pool to Terry's to "help move". Aka tear down the barn.


----------



## widdle

Im in..Although im scared of farm animals..Weren't they like 3" x 12" floor boards Terry ? Soo whats up John..Where we at on moisture content on the stash ?


----------



## CL810

I'm in!


----------



## donwilwol

You guys can partner up and buy liberty tool. How cool would that be?


----------



## JayT

I'm in. Of course, Terry is going to have to keep in mind that I'm not good at following directions, so if I get lost on the way to Colorado Springs with a load of lumber, I may have to pause to get my bearings by finding something familiar. That could likely happen in Kansas, and the most familiar sight to find would be my shop.


----------



## donwilwol

ROAD TRIP!!


----------



## terryR

Still LOL!

Last night the wife gave me permission to remove any board I want from the barn! Just as long as I replace it with pressure treated…..John, the loft is only 6/4 walnut, but there's plenty to go around! And it's as dry as it can ever get. Bring your cat's claw and pry bars! These nails they used in 1920 are a different sort than what we buy today!

Pez, that's some serious teaching you are sharing with the wagon vice! I'm trying to remember as much as possible for my next vice. Don't have a hole saw here, I would have to bore and chisel out the waste. IMO, every shop needs a combo lathe/mill. LOL.

And, hey, if anybody is coming for the barn UN-building, please grab some oreos and milk as you pass the nearest town. Man I'm tired of driving an hour for a snack  BTW, wife is leaving for Boston for a week on wednesday, so this coming weekend is the time!!!


----------



## john2005

Don we have a new winner, "it's only 6/4 walnut".

@Widdle, not sure what you mean. If you are referring to the stack Bob and I just milled we are still sitting between 25 and 40% depending on species.


----------



## chrisstef

Whatcha need is a "ramming rod" to remove that flooring Terry. To hell with pry bars. Fabricate yourself a 6×6 that will fit in the bucket of your tractor vertically without too much slop. If you've got a set of forks, even better. Notch out the 6×6 to fit between the forks and ratchet strap that fugger to the mast. Raise bucket, reap walnut.

I used that technique to remove tack welded floor grates in a gigantic warehouse. Just watch out if things start to fall from above. It might get a lil hairy.


----------



## bandit571

I can see it now, here comes DonW, driving a D-8 Bulldozer….


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Stef! You just saved me a ton of man hours…


----------



## Buckethead

You're really going to do it, aren't you, Terry?


----------



## chrisstef

Im tellin ya its the ticket to making that go faster. You might split a few boards but what you lose in the process will be made up for by a substantially less amount of effort put forth. You must scream (roll your R here) "RRRRRamming RRRRod!" though.

Hopefully youll find a nailing pattern that stays pretty consistent throughout. Once you find that pattern you'll speed right through it.


----------



## ToddJB

Terry, bring it all to Colorado. I'll be happy to help you unload it. One for you, and one for me, and one for you, and….


----------



## Buckethead

I've had to do some demo. A properly sized 2×8 aimed right to the bottom of the floorboard at the joist is a common method for removing floor sheathing.

I must admit, I'm a bit surprised that you're going through with it.

Is this a property owned by you and your wife? Maybe her family?

Is the barn in good shape?

If she gave permission based upon replacement with PT I'm thinking yes to all.

Then comes the real question… Why the wait? And… Pics please!


----------



## bandit571

All this talk about Barn Wood, maybe I should plane what little I already have









Might take abit to do these, though









Maybe…


----------



## Buckethead

Bandit… You're not a smoker, are you?

Looks like you've been planing miles of stock!


----------



## bandit571

Easier on the old feet to stand on a few inches of shavings, rather than a hard concrete floor.

Trying to remove the T & G edges, so I can glue up a few panels. Haven't really found that many nails, either. About one nail per board, for now. These are almost too long to plane this way, though..


----------



## CL810

Sorry Kevin, I got sidetracked. Gonna spend the week here.









I'm taking a traditional ww class. In the next room Schwarz's class is building benches. Gonna be an interesting week!


----------



## theoldfart

Excellent Andy, enjoy and immerse ! I'm taking a Schwarz class in July.


----------



## donwilwol

Yea, it's just 6/4".


----------



## BigRedKnothead

OK, Breaking News. Awhile back we were talking about the benchcrafted style moxon and how easy it would be able to put the hardware together yourself…...EXCEPT for one crucial part: Tapping the acme threads into the 5" cast iron wheels. The tap itself cost like $80.

What's changed since then? We now have a resident pimp machinist. I wrote August and asked if he had the ability and/or interest in tapping some wheels so other LJs could obtain moxon glory….and he obliged.









I'll let you guys take it from here and shop around. Not sure if August will just want to provide the handwheels and you guys can get your own acme thread and nuts? Or if he'll want trouble with shipping a whole kit? Up to him. But I just thought this would help some LJs get a good moxon setup for less.

Here's some 5" handwheels to get the ball rolling. Maybe August or someone else knows a cheaper source:
http://www.essentracomponents.com/product/rns-5/0/fl/4294908223

More specifically this one:
http://www.essentracomponents.com/sku/BSW-5

That's all I got for now. I'll let you guys run with it if your interested.


----------



## Mosquito

That is pretty cool… a moxon is next on my "shop list". Had enough of hurting my back on my low bench when doing joinery lol


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Right. And if anyone's wondering why cast iron wheels are great….watch this.






It takes a little finesse to make them spin freely like the vid. But you get the idea.


----------



## CL810

Bench orgy!


----------



## Pezking7p

^^^ that's some pretty thick oak for the benches. Was this the progress after 1 day or 2 days? I see a slot for a wagon vise? very nice.


----------



## Buckethead

Not fair. They have benches on which to build their benches. Does that class include lumber/bench hardware?

What do those classes cost?

Edit: you can't expect me to google it!


----------



## widdle

Nice cl810..Thats a good scene there….make sure you pass on all the tricks of the trade too brother…The shop benches look pretty cool as well..


----------



## shampeon

Very cool, August & Red.

Oh, and that workplace is like a dream of paradise….


----------



## richardwootton

If only the lighting were more like Smitty's and less like middle school.


----------



## August

Red no problem

I think I have the same thread that BC use 
Grizzly have a large selection of handwheel
And very good price,
And the nut is very cheap at eBay 
And the acme rod is also cheap 
I think I did the math before with rod and nut and washer with handwheel it was under $100
And the only thing I can be a help on is threading the handwheel.
If you guys do like that.
All I ask for is to use what tooling I have because the acme tap I bought cost a good chunk of change.
I'll double check tomorrow but I'm sure it's the same thread patern as BC.

Ok today was a good day I now have 240 volts and 220 volts in my garage


----------



## ToddJB

Red and August, thanks for doing this. You're both alright in my book.


----------



## CL810

That photo is at end of day 2. It doesn't depict all of them work they have done. I won't be able to pass on any tricks because I'm in a different class. The wood is ash.

Schwarz is blogging about the build.

Here's the info on Schwarz's class.


----------



## Buckethead

That looks like a heap of fun. I suppose each student needs to bring a trailer along to haul the bench back to the shop? Some big beautiful ash getting handled there. I'd like to get my hands on that.

In review: big ash, beautiful ash, hands on ash, tool on ash, hauling ash. Did I miss any?


----------



## richardwootton

Pulling ash, everything covered. Hopefully, you don't want to catch the emerald ash borer!


----------



## August

bucket yes you did

SMACK THAT ASH LOL


----------



## merrill77

@Buckethead wrote: "Not fair. They have benches on which to build their benches."

Agreed. If you really want to learn to build a bench, you have to learn to build it on sawhorses. Or the floor.

Almost missed the wagon vice slot, but I didn't miss that wagon-load of clamps. Must be nice.


----------



## Pezking7p

I was jealous of having benches on which to build benches. After reading Schwarz's blog, it looks like maybe that's a tenon for the leg instead of a wagon vise. Also, $750 for a 5 day class, and $650 for materials, is not bad to build a bench. Schwarz custom designs each person's bench to meet their requests. Pretty awesome.


----------



## Buckethead

I saw that too, Pez. I thought it might be outrageously expensive, but for less than the cost of purchasing a high end bench, you can build your own under the tutelage of a renown bench guru. A pretty nice deal.


----------



## theoldfart

my "New Moxon" 









Details at the State of the Shop thread


----------



## Buckethead

I absolutely love old (or new) wooden screws. I've seen a dood on yootoob making them with a bicycle rime and a bottlecap. I have got to get up the nerve to figure that out.


----------



## richardwootton

These bad boys are just asking to be a bench top!
http://littlerock.craigslist.org/mat/4516423508.html


----------



## Buckethead

Those have been on my local craigslist for a while, RW. Apparently that guy splits time between here and there. He doesn't include a price, and I haven't inquired. It occurs to me that the best use for those would be in timberframe construction. It seems a shame to use them for any other purpose, but then again re-use/re-purposing is far better than rot.

Sadly, he makes no mention of asking price.


----------



## bandit571

Having to make do without a tablesaw, so









Rigged up a guide fence for the saw I do have. Needed to rip a 8/4×4" RedOak chunk to make leg blanks. Clamped the oak to the benchtop









Careful that the blade misses the bench. Had to move the clamps around a bit, in order to complete the cut.

Treasure Hunt found a lathe, don't have a dedicated bench for a lthe, so









I clamped it to the only clear spot in the shop. Seemed to do ok turning some table legs









Got two done, then the back started to stiffen up. My back, that is, besides, it was Lunch Time..


----------



## Buckethead

Those look good, bandit. Turning does appeal to me somewhat. I definitely like the results of it, but I feel I need to focus on basic joinery for the time being. I mosly like turning for legs and such. Like you have done here. I do like bowls etc, but I'm more inclined towards furniture.


----------



## chrisstef

Whoa on those white oak timbers. Would take a couple strong fellas to move those around I bet.

Really nice turning work there bandito.


----------



## RPhillips

Welcome to Indy Clayton! that school is only about 30 minutes from my house. I really need to go to that some time… July would be nice… hmmmm


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Here goes nothin.


----------



## TerryDowning

Out of town on busines earlier this week.

I did manage to finish up a leg assembly Yesterday morning though.









MMM through tenons

and draw bored









Please note: This is a deviation from the standard Paul Seller's bench. The Tenons are standard but the draw bores I added. It just seemed like the bench wanted them.


----------



## Buckethead

You're looking good there Terry. What is the method of attaching the top you'll be using?

Red, is there a split/crack/check/delam developing in your bench top or are you just expanding your skills?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice progress Terry. I love when the assemblies start coming together.

Bucket- there are a couple checks (one in that pic) that I'm going to use the inlays on. But really I'm doing it to practice. Well…and it looks cool.

It's interesting, I've never done an inlay per say. But woodworking reminds me of playing the guitar or any other complex skill. Once you learn basics, the skills just build upon each other. I'm not really intimidated by inlays because I've executed each step before…..just in different ways.


----------



## terryR

Red, Thanks for the lessons on how to make butterflies! Always wanted to try that. Your benchtop is going to be pretty pimp with all the added wedges and inlays!

Strong work there, Terry! I also deviated from the Sellers' plan here and there. My legs are 5.25" square, and pinned with Ironwood…didn't have the cohones to try draw boring yet! LOL. I also added a leg vice. Love it absolutely! Now, I wish I had more benches stable enough to hold a few more leg vices around the shop…

Here's a weird fact I noticed…

Got a nice Wagner moisture meter to measure all my woods in storage a few months ago…all my lumber is 12% MC or greater from the friggin' humidity. BUT, my bench (pine) registers 8% somehow? Maybe from having a little space heater close by all winter? dunno?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Too much?


----------



## Buckethead

Too much is never enough.


----------



## chrisstef

Too uniform for my particular taste red. Be my taste has been known to be a lil strange.


----------



## widdle

Agree with Stef .


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Hmmm. Tough to tell from the pic, but the spacing is kinda random.

This is too hard. My brain hurts. Wait…just a friggin benchtop


----------



## August

Red your amazing machine men very nicely done
If your doing butterfly I'll do dragon fly LOL


----------



## BigRedKnothead

thanks man. They're turning out pretty well so far.


----------



## ToddJB

I'd say so. They look great


----------



## Buckethead

I have a question to pose before the panel.

Back story:

I'm getting all ballsey, and I've cut a piece of African mahogany which is to be one facet of tool storage. The stock was sold to me as 4/4. This was a piece that got rejected due to excessively wavy rough milling. I'm referring to the face milling. Effectively making this piece potentially 3/4 working thickness if used at full length.

I'm not using it at full length, so for my purposes, I'm dealing with 6/4 stock in the rough.

So… I don't own a bandsaw (aside from a Milwaukee portaband). I've made buds with a guy at my local woodcraft store.

I am certain it could yield 1/2 finished stock, if resawn by a competent hand. Maybe 5/8, but that's optimistic.

Is 1/2" stock sufficient mass for the carcass of a tool chest? Drawers will be used, and in those drawers will be hand planes. (The heaviest of the tools to be housed)

I intend to resaw for the drawer fronts. I just think 1-1/4" might look a bit clunky for the carcass of a tool chest that is only 32" wide, 14" tall and 11-1/2" deep. Not to mention potential new project board footage.

I had originally intended it to be taller, but I read another thread where a guy had put drawers almost to the top, whereas a commenter inquired, "what about the holdfasts?"

A pertinent question. I'll be using holdfasts, and shrinking the height.

So… To resaw or not to resaw… That is the question.


----------



## Pezking7p

The problem will be that you won't have much room to make dados. You can overcome this by making very shallow dados and using screws, but I think I would still use 3/4" stock for the carcass.


----------



## Buckethead

Yeah… You can really only stretch the wood so far. Thanks Pez. Practical considerations are the primary concern.

Would it look stupid with leaving the stock PHAT? Intend to do dovetails. Pray for me.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Now this is a handwheel:










Stay tuned for more, but that wheel is on my new $10 Lancaster post drill press…


----------



## Buckethead

Smitty having a banner day! I'm jelly. (Twitter speak for jealous)


----------



## ToddJB

That will be the perfect addition to the shop, Smitty.


----------



## chrisstef

Hummina hummina.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Sweet Smitty!

I came here to post my own gloat of sorts. Went to the local saw mill today with my 4 year old. Thought I'd pick up a couple of nice boards for some projects and see if the sawyer would be kind enough to demonstrate the Woodmizer for my son. I didn't leave with any of the stuff I went there for. Instead, I left with these:




























The front four are pine beams. All 5 inches thick and from 6 to just under 8 inches thick. The two rear beams are oak. One's 4-ish by 6 and the other's 4-ish by 4.5-ish. The other stuff in the picture are pieces sawn from the beams. The sawyer ran the pine through his woodmizer to get them roughly the same thickness (to save me a lot of work) and used a chainsaw to cut the beams that were too long to fit in the man-van. If it's not clear, this will become my bench. Pine top and oak legs. I'll probably get a 6.5 foot long bench top out of it. Probably end up around 4.5 inches thick and somewhere in the neighborhood of 24 inches wide.

This is pretty awesome because I want to build a better bench than the 2×4/plywood guy I have right now but wasn't planning to have the money or the materials any time soon. The best part is that the guy had this in a pile with all kinds of other stuff he was wanting to get rid of to make room for more logs. He gave it all to me for $60.

So, in summary, I got to spend some time alone with my oldest (rare occurrence), he got to see the sawmill and edger run (which he thought was pretty cool) and I got an awesome deal on some lumber to build my bench.


----------



## Buckethead

Nice, ninja!


----------



## shampeon

Testing the criss-cross.









This is gonna be rad.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Ian, will this complete your bench? That's awesome, dude.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Excellent post, Ninja, Congrats!

Here's my take for the day:










Plus the aforementioned Post Drill:










Plus an 8' Keen Kutter store display case:










All for $107.50.
.
.
.
.
.
Yep.

Then I sold the cabinet before leaving the sale so the bench top cache cost me a total of $32.50.


----------



## bandit571

Tool gloat for the Bandit









Millers Fallls No.732-10 with a 4/16 bit, a Greenlee Gouge ( 1/2" out channel) a file that had a handle I wanted, and this thing









13" scroll saw. Total for the day? $17.00

Added to yesterday's haul? Less than $30. Lots of bits and a third brace, a block plane, and a "VIXEN" file. Oh, and a couple of usable chisels







Not that back a weekend…..


----------



## shampeon

Billy: I'm close but I still have to:

shape the leg vise chop
install the leg vise screw
install the end vise
drill the dog holes
put on the finish

Those beams are awesome. How are you going to prep them for glue up? Gluing up really thick boards is somewhat tricky to avoid gaps. What helped with my bench was using chalk on one board, then putting it against its mate and using the chalk to find the high spots. Then I'd knock down the high spots with a smoothing plane and recheck. It was time-consuming, but worked well.

Hell of a score, Smitty. Is this the second Keen Kutter display case you've come across? I think I remember somebody getting one somewhere.


----------



## richardwootton

Smitty that drill press is too freaking cool! I must have one!


----------



## ToddJB

Dang Smitty, that's crazy talk.

Ninja, good job on getting wood and entertaining your kido

Ian, looking awesome


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Smitty and Billy for the win.

Man, this is a good day for the benchheads.

There's a coat of coat of poly on my joinery bench. So close I can…..smell it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

For a change, I out-Bandited the Bandit… And it'll not likely happen again.


----------



## donwilwol

Man, I like that keen kutter case. I need to find a spot for my post drill to. I have intentionally left it in the middle of the floor so I don't conveniently forgot it.


----------



## Buckethead

Ya Smitty… We might have guessed by your first exuberant post that you had really hit it big. And you did.

Strangest thing…. I'm all giddy for you! What a cache!-note the correct usage. 

I just noticed those frikkin monster dividers! I love huge tools and I don't care who knows it!

Just gonna zoom in on that photo for a few…. BRB.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bucket- 1/2" is a little thin. Could you do frame and panel and use the nice mahogany for the panels? Or use another wood for the case and mahogany for the drawer fronts?


----------



## Buckethead

My wife doesn't like the mahogany. It stays with me in the shop. I am already in the process of flattening it, and early reports state that just over one inch finished stock is the prognosis. I don't think it will be a problem aesthetically. Honestly, I should manage the mahogany better, because who knows if I'll be seeing another sweet deal like that, but I need to master dovetails, and it really want a tool chest that impresses me. (As funny as that may sound) I'm just going to continue as per the original plan.

But rarely do I complete a project per original plan, except insomuch as I never have a true plan to begin with.

I think I might have spotted a Stanley #203 bench bracket among all dat booty. Smitty?

Edit: I should note that I have about three times as many BF of the mahogany left. One piece is 17"w x 12' long the other is 21"w. X 12"long. I originally thought it was Sapele, but according to the Janka scale Sapele is harder than hard maple. This us not. Softer, and would be as easy to work as walnut, if not for the interlocking grain.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Smitty, that's one hell of a score brotato. I think you win the day my man.

Bandit, Smitty beat you this time. Still a great deal. What kind of shape is that gouge in?

Ian, it sounds like you're really in the home stretch now. To be honest, I hadn't put a lot of thought into the details of my bench, yet. I thought I was going to be building it out of box store two by's in the far future. This deal just kind of fell into my lap so I figured I'd jump on it and ask you all for help when I need it. Thanks for the chalk idea. I'll be employing that one for sure.

Thanks everyone. I'm going to let these guys acclimate for a few weeks and plan it all out in the mean time.


----------



## CL810

Bucket, I'm not sure I know what kind of chest you're building but the thickness deserves some discussion. Jump over to the Dream Toolbox thread.

Man, a lot of big things happening here today!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The largest wing dividers I've come across (Red-sized):


----------



## bandit571

The Greenlee 1/2" gouge just has a few rust spots. Handle is a tad loose, but no cracks in it.

Total items for the weekend:

Now have a set of auger bits for THREE braces, from 4/16 through 20/16, plus a 1" expansion bit

Three braces: 12" PEXTO 8012 Samson, a Millers Falls 732-10 10" and a "JAPAN" 10" brace. All three chucks work freely

The Greenlee and two other chisels

That VIXEN file with them smiley teeth. They look like )))))))))))-

Stanley Handyman #1248 blockplane

Maybe $25 for the small tools, and $10 for a 13" scrollsaw. Already have the scrollsaw cleaned of rust, plugged in, and it works like new. Even has one blade already mounted.

Not too bad a Father's Day shopping spree?


----------



## DanKrager

Smitty, those big dividers look like BRK at the gun show.

Bucket, resawing doesn't have to be done in the center. If you sawed 5/8 on one side and 3/8 on the other, you'd have thicker material for the chest and thinner material for the drawers. ???

DanK


----------



## donwilwol

Here is my take for the day.










A type 2 Sargent 307










A cool infill (rosewood and steel)










And a Sargent made 3409 branded as Marshell Wells Hardware. (I need to research this)










and a few other nice finds.


----------



## Buckethead

Shamp has a bench coming together, and it isn't an average build. In the midst of all the ogling, I got distracted.
We're gonna need some more pics, Shamp, and perhaps a demo of that wicked awesome rips cross leg vise.

CL810. Ima take you up on your advice. I'm rethinking the bottom as I'd like to consider a base with feet. I know what I'm thinking but lack the terminology to describe it. I probably lack the skill to pull it off too, but that won't stop me from trying.

Don… I'm most impressed by that infill shoulder plane. On my bucket list.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Hehehe Smitty. I've got some that big too. They're great for grilling.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Don, that in-fill looks tasty indeed.


----------



## donwilwol

I just had to try it!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks sub-par in use, send it to me for further evaluation…


----------



## ToddJB

It was a red letter day for you boys. Good finds. I took some stuff back to Home Depot for $7.81 credit. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.


----------



## richardwootton

LAWL! They just got pwned!


----------



## Pezking7p

Big wheels, big wood, dividers, butterflies, infills…you boys had a heck of a Saturday.

Had some time this morning to finish the wagon vise. Used some curly cherry that lysdexic sent me when I bought some planes. Very smooth action. Tomorrow I start milling the legs.


----------



## DanKrager

I guess it's just camera angle, Dan, but when I first saw the picture I thought, "now that ain't gonna work". Smooth, you say…as long as it doesn't fall out at the big end! LAWL

That's just beautiful.

DanK


----------



## woodchuckerNJ

Smitty you SUCK!!!l

Let's see a pic of the whole drill press.

Oops, sorry thought I was at the last post…. just saw your pic of it… that's a great find for 10..
It's a great find in general. Would love to have one, just to look at it, have it at the entrance to the shop…. neat…


----------



## widdle

pez…looks good. My apologizize from last week..Thought the exposed hardware was the top…Now i get it…cheers..


----------



## woodcox

Good haul Smitty, that looks like a tinners hammer head. Ash or hickory handle to come? I would put the drill on the back burner until the hammer is done

Nice find there bandit.

Dan that cherry looks great in there, very cool wagon YOU put together!


----------



## john2005

Yep, no shortage of "you suck" here. Haven't checked in in awhile and all it did was make my green. Nice job boys. Red, diggin the butterflies.


----------



## Buckethead

Pez… Very nice on the wagon vise. Smart design.


----------



## CL810

Dan that bench/wagon vise are looking very sweet!


----------



## Pezking7p

Thanks for the kind words gents. Widdle, figured you had some sand or something, no worries.

Milled 2 sides on the legs tonight. If I'm lucky I'll get some planing done before I leave for the airport tomorrow morning.


----------



## merrill77

Hey, look - I'm using my bench! Still working on those drawers. Here I'm leveling the pins and tails using the planing beam and crochet to hold the work. Works very well for these skinny drawers (and also for panels). No clamping needed, easy to flip around to plane from the other direction. My deeper drawers will need a different approach - probably hanging over the end of the bench.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The Champion post drill is stuck to the wall now and cranks / advances as intended, but there is a problem: The chuck is not aligned with the holes in the main drive shaft, so I'm not able to fix a bit in place. Argh. No wonder the thing wasn't operable in it's former home.


----------



## DanKrager

Smitty, that has to be fixable, right? Isn't it a matter of adjustment? I'm not familiar enough with these to really understand the problem from the one statement, 
"The chuck is not aligned with the holes in the main drive shaft, so I m not able to fix a bit in place." 
DanK


----------



## TerryDowning

Had a great Father's Day weekend of woodworking on my backyard shop.
Finished the second leg assembly and added the bearer to the first leg assembly.










Front leg on the second second leg assembly is a reclaimed 4" X 6" piece of dunnage. I even got the mortises for the wedge powered leg vise chopped out.

My hands and shoulders were sore from all the mortising. Glad that's done.










Hope you all had a great Father's day weekend as well.

Some great hauls mentioned above. Congrats

I also started the marathon Dado chopping for the first apron. I hope to have some assembly by next weekend.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm not quite sure what the problem is either… have any pictures?


----------



## Buckethead

Coming along quite nicely, Terry. Some good foresight in doing all the mortising for the leg vise prior to attaching the top. It beats crouching over to get them done. ;-)

Smitty, need pics. I'm sure I'll have absolutely nothing to offer, but pics are just awesome… So…


----------



## TerryDowning

Yeah, I was gonna skip it, but decided it would be easier than once assembled. It will also force me to complete the vise. Looking at those large mortises up front will drive me crazy.

Someone asked a while back how I will mount the tops.

It will be with lag screws through the bearers just like in the Paul Seller's videos.

The aprons will be fastened with dados in the back of the skirt and carriage bolts though the legs.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Pics (man, you guys are tough…)

The Press:










The Chuck:



















Off-set holes:


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Stupid rotated pics…

Anyway…

The last one shows the actual bit bolt can't reach the bit at all.


----------



## DanKrager

My first impression, Smitty, is that the chuck has slipped down the shaft about 1/16. I'm guessing that the shaft and the chuck should line up at the bottom and their offset is almost the same as the hole offset. There also appears to be a ring at the top of the chuck about the same width as the offset.

I'd be inclined to apply the BFH against a block of wood to move it back. Check to be sure the shaft is well supported against an immovable object and there are no castings that can be damaged by the blows. Maybe a good application of Blaster (or similar) first will help.

What holds that chuck on other than friction…just the bolt that holds the bit?

DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"there are no castings that can be damaged by the blows"










I think you're right about the slippage, Dan. I may apply some oil and heat before the percussive maintenance.


----------



## Buckethead

Lawl! Percussive maintenance. emphasis on cuss?

Is that bolt what holds the bit fast? if so, what is the mechanism to keep the bit centered?

I've been eying these, even though they are pricey and my WW buckaroos are slim these days. Honestly, I should just buy a motorized drill press first, but man these things are cool. A standard old drill press doesn't have the KABLAMM! factor.


----------



## ToddJB

Oil for a few days, heat, and smack. Sounds like a good plan to me.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Bucket, I believe (no sarcasm) the idea was to stick w/ 1/2"-shanked bits. If I get the thing aligned, I'll be eyeing a 1/2", jawed chuck to mount in it.


----------



## Buckethead

Ah… it makes sense now. If each shank is the same, no need for a fancy schmancy conical chuck thingamajig. Hope it falls into place. I'm sure it will. Nothing a tap and larger screw couldn't handle, worst case scenario.


----------



## Mosquito

yeah, the post drills were designed to have 1/2" shank bits only, smaller bits still had the 1/2" shank. There's a flat spot on the bit then, that the bolt tightens down to. I've only got one bit, so I bought a 1/2" bolt, cut off the head, filed a flat spot onto it, then threaded a new chuck on to that for mine


----------



## donwilwol

Mine came with a jawed chuck. I really need to find a spot to hang it.


----------



## Mosquito

mine sat on the floor in my apartment for about a year and a half before moving it to the garage at the house where it sat for 3 months before I finally mounted it to the wall… heck of a lot easier to use when it's on the wall vs leaning against the workbench lol


----------



## RPhillips

When you guys made your tenon/dovetails at the end of the legs that insert into the bench top, what angle did you use on the dovetail? Such a noob question I know, but I've never made dovetails before.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I was hoping you'd jump in with comment, Mos. Thanks for the flattened bolt info, was wondering how to do the 'alt chuck' thing and that makes terrific sense.

As near as I can tell, the Perfection seems to be complete but for a handle that should be mounted to the top gear. There are some warts to the thing, but name anything that old what doesn't have warts of some kind.

Hope to drill an actual hole in something with it someday, too. Can't rush into these things, can we?

lawl


----------



## Mosquito

I'll try to take mine apart and get a picture tonight if I remember. Did you get any bits with it? I'll try to find the only original bit I've got for a comparison


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

No bits with it, didn't even know to look. I'm sure they were there somewhere, in the three wagons of tools that sold.

Oh, and this is a bench thread. Sorry for hijacking with post drill discussions.










Carry on…


----------



## Mosquito

"No bits with it, didn t even know to look. I m sure they were there somewhere, in the three wagons of tools that sold.

Oh, and this is a bench thread. Sorry for hijacking with post drill discussions.

Carry on…"
- Smitty_Cabinetshop

So I have responded here instead lol: [URL=http://lumberjocks.com/topics/27861#reply-853133]http://lumberjocks.com/topics/27861#reply-853133[/URL]


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Rob- I went with 45 degree on my roubo dovetails. This made it easy to cut them on the tablesaw. I believe CL810 used 30 degress….or something like that. Which made it dicey on the tablesaw.

I pretty much copied the dude from Bad Axe:









http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/craft-the-sliding-dovetail-tenon-joint-for-the-roubo-workbench.html


----------



## Buckethead

I like that Blog, Red. Some encouraging words and smart tips.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Yup. That blog and Schwarz's blue bench book were where my bench was derived.


----------



## August

12" jointer work machining for a pulley
http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf


----------



## john2005

As if we're all offended that we are now discussing post drills.


----------



## terryR

Thanks for that link, Red! Very good info for the next bench…

The 16" BA saw I have…time for another bench I don't. 

Plus, until we move, I have requested we purchase and/or build nothing over 50 pounds! LOL.

(Cannot wait to share photos of my pine bench strapped to a trailer behind my Ford)


----------



## Pezking7p

Glad to see that pic posted…I had just been planning my DT layout. Planning to cut the DT and tenon on separate boards before laminating them together. Scary stuff.


----------



## Iguana

*A tale of two blades*

I finally got to cutting the second tongue on my benchtop today. Blog posts to follow in a few minutes, but I thought I'd share something tangential:










The blade on the left is (was) a Bosch Daredevil. 40T, 7 1/4" diameter. I bought it specifically to use to do the end cuts on my benchtop. And that is all it has done. Maybe a total of 50 non-through cuts across the slab. It is now toast. By the the time I was finishing up the tongues, the blade was burning the wood.

The blade on the right is a Freud Diablo. Also 40T, 7 1/4" diameter. I had it in the saw for two years prior to switching to the Bosch blade. It has been heavily used over the past year in building my house. (And yes, I realize that a 40T blade is way too fine for a framing blade, but it was what was in the saw and I never found a need to change.) It has broken down 100s of sheet good stock. It has ripped 100s of linear feet of various hardwoods. (Again, 40T is too many for a ripping blade, except it worked too well to switch) It has been used to crosscut hard and softwoods of all sorts. It has never been cleaned but it still cuts pretty well.

After all the heavy use, the Diablo wasn't making the kind of clean cut I was looking for in my bench. Just on the tailing edge, mind you. Otherwise, it was solid. So I thought I'd buy a new blade just to use on the bench. The Bosch was $5 cheaper than a new Diablo…

Despite the heavy abuse - including missing a tooth - the Diablo still makes a much better cut than the almost-new Bosch. I would say the Bosch worked fine for the first half of the first tongue. Passable for the second half of the first tongue. Terrible on the the second tongue - it stalled 4 times in making the baseline shoulder cuts. And did I mention that it started burning the slab on the last set of cuts?

So, I won't bother with buying another Bosch blade for my circular saw, just stick with the Diablos. The $5 savings was seriously not worth it.


----------



## Iguana

*A tale of two tongues*

Making progress. Slowly.

Tongue 1 blog post:









Tongue 2 blog post:


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Mark. I've been using those diablo blades in my TS for years. I like em.


----------



## terryR

Excellent review, Mark. Even though that was only ONE Bosch blade in the experiment, I'll stick with Diablos. In the table saw and both circular saws already.

Be sure to save the Bosch, cut it up into any shape you like for shop knives, pokers, etc. Or send it to me!


----------



## jmartel

I've been quite happy with Freud and see no reason to switch. Great performance for a good price. I use them for circular saw blades, tablesaw blades, and router bits. Been thinking about trying them for ROS sanding disks as well.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks kids. Sweet work.


----------



## CL810

^LAWL!!


----------



## richardwootton

They missed a couple holes Red, what kind of children are you raising??


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I wish I could tell you guys that they didn't glue a couple of them. AAyyyyyeee.


----------



## jmartel

Time to sell the spawn if they glued them in. You can always make more.


----------



## richardwootton

Red my heart hurts a little right now.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ehhh….I already got them out. Wasn't as bad as I thought. Our middle child is that one where your mom wished "you have one just like you."

She's crazy. You have to keep her busy or you won't like what she comes up with. But anyone who knew me as a kid….I deserve it.

Little bit of a teaser of my joinery bench in this pic:









Only thing left is to trick out and line the drawers. Btw, that was the heaviest thing I have ever moved.


----------



## john2005

Good to see your kids do that too. So far my boy hasn't figured out what glue does so were good there, Maybe I should put it higher….


----------



## Buckethead

My 9 y/o daughter loves to do woodworking too, as does my 2 y/o. They haven't glued anything yet, but when it happens, I'll struggle to be anything but proud. (Even if I need to scold).

I see the genius at work there: "This fits in here. Dad fits things, then glues them… Let's make Dad proud."


----------



## Buckethead

Awwwwww yeaaaahhhhhhh.










It was forth down and 38 yards to go. Late in the closing minutes of the game. Down by 5 points, because I just threw a pick six. This is where the real men dig down deep. Drill down to the core. That's right, ladies… Prepare to gush, 'cause it's Tebow Time:










I threw the screen, but it bounced off the right tackles shoulder pad, into the defenders hands, but he had tacos at halftime and his mitts were greasy.

Somehow I ended up with the ball and I outran the DL, and sluggo'd right over the db's. TOUCHDOWN!

[crowd goes wild]


----------



## chrisstef

Congrats bucket. Its gorgeous man. Props on the tebondo pose. Lawl.


----------



## RPhillips

Nice Bucket! Congrats… great looking bench.


----------



## richardwootton

Hell yeah Bucket!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Huzzah, well done Bucket! Congrats!!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Bucket. It's been hilarious watching your build…...laughing with you, not at you;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Slam dunk Bucket! Is that Tebo or Auguste Rodin?


----------



## widdle

Very nice
bucket. Is
That hard maple and walnut ? Dimensions? Good
Work


----------



## bandit571

The Bar has been raised.

Afraid this is about all I can do for a bondo









My "Stand-in" , because I don't think your eyeballs could take something like this









In any kind of a pose on the benchtop…..Coyote UGLY is not even close….


----------



## RPhillips

trying to get those "timbers" cut today…. what a @(#*$U% !!!


----------



## CL810

Bucket, that is a great bench. So much I like about it: wood choice, end vise chop, deadman design, DT tenons…..

And for the sweep - a tebondo!! LOL! Great stuff.


----------



## donwilwol

Great bench and no blue hair!!


----------



## chrisstef

And a "standito" ...


----------



## woodcox

Nice work there bucket. It looks good!


----------



## ToddJB

Bucket, beautiful work. Tebow would be proud.


----------



## ToddJB

Bucket, beautiful work. Tebow would be proud.


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice bucket!


----------



## Pezking7p

Lawl! Awesome work bucket. Really great looking bench.


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks for the comments, gentlemen. Widdle, it's 72" x 21-1/2"

A bit smaller than I would have chosen after the fact. And you nailed the woods, maple and walnut.

I wanted to do a proper project post as well, but I posted a pic on FB (pre dog holes) and a friend called me with a business proposition because he liked it. He's been approached to build a specialized piece of furniture which would have refrigerated compartments with potential to gear up into production. I met with him today, so I was away right after I posted. We even wet a line for a bit. (For those aquaticly challenged that means we went fishing) Perhaps I'll dive in, but the financier needs to make concessions before I'll bite. He doesn't need to know that I'm clueless. ;-)


----------



## john2005

Awesome Bucket! Love the deadman. "Tebondo", also awesome.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Bucket - congrats, beautiful bench.


----------



## Pezking7p

Making furniture for money? Tits.

Working on the legs. Had to do a lot of extra work today because the boards warped after initial milling. Yikes!


----------



## merrill77

Bucket, that looks fantastic! Gonna cry when that first chisel or saw blades pops the cherry, errr… slices the maple?


----------



## richardwootton

Chris, you had it right the first time. Popped it's cherry!


----------



## Buckethead

Dan, you're embarking on the second best part of the build. Teh sliderz. I became quite frustrated a couple times. You're looking pretty clean! First best part of the build is teh Tebondow.

Merrill, when I was doing my end vise, I set the screw on the benchtop without thinking and stained it with oil. Nothing major, but I might have shed a (very manly) tear.

Thanks, colonel and John. I do enjoy seeing people appreciate the build, even with my bungles. I confess I do feel I nice sense of accomplishment.


----------



## Pezking7p

So after you cut the mortises (which I'm assuming will take me about 2 hours per leg) how long would you say it takes per leg to fit the joint?


----------



## theoldfart

For me about three months per!


----------



## Buckethead

I spent hours refining each tenon with the Shinto saw rasp and chisels. None of them are the same. I did my tenons first, and cut my mortises a bit small, but although I only had a sixteenth to take from each one, every mortise was slightly different, as was every tenon. It took forever. I was ready to swear off hand tools.


----------



## Iguana

Bucket!


----------



## Buckethead

Just finished and submitted three proposals…. Play time!


----------



## walden

Bench looks great Bucket!


----------



## Airframer

Very nice job Bucket!


----------



## terryR

Sweet bench build, Bucket! Love the pose too much…

Certainly a shop tool to be proud of for MANY years…even after the cherry is popped! LOL.


----------



## TerryDowning

Nice Job Bucket.

Dan's making good progress.

Speaking of progress.

Finally finished the dados on the first apron.


















Gonna do it different on the next apron. Stopped dados are a hassle. I'll wait to glue on the top board and use the Rabbet Plane and knock those daods out in no time.

With the dados done some assembly can begin. Front apron bolted on, front top section being glued to front apron.


















I have since removed the clamps and bolted down the top. I'm now using the bench to build the the other apron, rear top section and well board.

Still need to work the vise as well. But now it is at least usable.


----------



## Buckethead

Terry, you are nearly done, lol! No year long build for you!

Looking good too.

I was all eager to do some fine tuning on the thickness/flatness of the stock for tool storage, and having dog holes, the bench finally suited that purpose. With a caveat. Vise racking stoopid cray cray when I bore down on 'er.

Time to drill more holes, and fashion my interpretation of the Widdle Stick™.

I was going to bust out a quick and dirty version, but got carried away. ;-)

This Widdle Stick™ is crafted from 350,000,000 year old Honduran Mahogany, reclaimed from the lake of fire near Zurich, Switzerland. It is said to be the last remaining vestige of Noah's Ark.

I was in the field, so I crafted it with a screw jack, cinder block and pink camouflage duct tape.










Went ahead and chamfered the dog holes with the router since I had it out. That really dressed them nicely and was easy peasy.


----------



## shampeon

Bucket, showing us how it's done. Hopefully your career will last a little longer than Tebow's. What's the CFL of woodworking, I wonder?

Shaped the chop and after much cursing and several attempts, finally got the nut installed. Had to shim the bottom with some thin washers to keep it from binding.









I'm coming down the home stretch, I feel.


----------



## Buckethead

Ian, that is a man sized chop. I believe you could cross the English Channel on it with a proper sail mounted.

It's a joy to look at your pristine bench and shop. Something I aspire to.


----------



## JADobson

> Bucket, showing us how it s done. Hopefully your career will last a little longer than Tebow s. What s the CFL of woodworking, I wonder?
> 
> - shampeon


Haha, let's be careful what we imply about the CFL. Best football around!


----------



## terryR

That's an impressive Widdle Stick, Mr.Bucket. Approaching pimp status very quickly IMO!

Ian, sweet looking work! Bench is a masterpiece! Stupid question, how do you like the iron miter plane?


----------



## palaswood

TerryDowning, nice bench - 2 questions - 1st one stupid: whats the stopped dado for?

2nd question, is that a saw bench with a tool drawer, I spy with my wandering eye? please explain in great detail


----------



## ColonelTravis

Ian - another stupid question - how do you like your scraper, and what things do you use it on? (that's two stupid questions, sorry.)


----------



## richardwootton

Joseph, I want to say Terry blogged about his saw bench. At least I think it was Terry.


----------



## shampeon

Terry: that's a DonW infill shooting plane with ebonized walnut. It's great! Chews up hardwood endgrain like it's no big thing, with a ton of heft. I used it to level the chop against the top of the bench, so I've been using it for purposes beyond just shooting.

Colonel: The scraper plane is also super handy. After taking off most of the chop endgrain with the shooting plane, I used the scraper plane for the rest. I've mostly been using it on figured or squirrel-grained wood and for doing final smoothing on flat surfaces, taking the place of cabinet scrapers. The advantages over cabinet scrapers are that the body keeps everything flat so you wont' dig in, it doesn't burn your fingers, and the edge lasts longer. It's been a champ.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Thanks, and great He-Man vice there.


----------



## TerryDowning

Ian, that chop is a beauty. Nicely done.

Joseph, 
Richard is correct, there is a blog series on the saw bench with all the details including my convoluted thought process.

The project is here with links to the blog from there


As for the stopped Dadoes,

The apron sits on the leg and and is wedged to the leg to maintain lateral stability. The Carriage Bolt is only to keep the apron in contact with the leg and is barely tightened.

I will take some photos of that detail tonight.

I did mention that the clamps are off and I'm using it to build for the other apron. My MF 22 (#7 size jointer) getting the job done.










Flat with no wind Planing on this is far superior to my previous work holding methods. Already digging it even if it's not complete.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Ian, must speak with DonW about my lack of shooters.  I also noticed the scraper plane…who could miss that beauty! Is that the small LN version, or did you Photoshop it? LOL! I have the LN 112 and love it…when I'm able to man-up and lift it!

Terry, the Bench is looking great! Nothing wrong with using it asap, if your previous planing set-ups were anything like mine were! Jeez, hand planing on a real bench is fun compared to a work 'table'. Still cannot believe I haven't copied your saw bench…too much farm work keeps popping up!


----------



## TerryDowning

I said I'd take pictures of how the Stopped Dadoes are used.

The Apron and top(glued to the apron) is wedged into place. This is a very strong joint that virtually eliminates racking of the legs.

A Carriage bolt holds the apron to the leg, and a lag screw holds the top to the leg assembly.

Right side (You can see the bottom of the wagon for the wagon vice)









Left Side (You can see the mortise for the Leg Vise when that gets installed.)









I still need to do some clean up and get rid of the layout lines. I'll need to disassemble to relocate to my garage and I'll wipe everything down with DNA to get rid of layout lines then.

In the meantime, I'm putting this sucker to use.

Laying out the dadoes for the other apron.










I'll do these as through dadoes using this









Then I'll glue up the top of the apron to complete the apron.


----------



## palaswood

Thanks Terry -that's similar to the Paul sellers bench is it not? At least he uses the same wedge technique to hold the apron/top to the leg assembly.

I'm getting started with some beefy Doug fir 3 1/2s


----------



## richardwootton

Screw building my Red Oak Roubo, I'll just drop an easy G like it's nothin' and be all set up!
http://littlerock.craigslist.org/mat/4538971487.html


----------



## Airframer

Well that certainly is the nicest workbench I've ever seen…. Looks legit..


----------



## shampeon

A 2" thick top! My lord! Why would anyone need a top that thick???


----------



## TerryDowning

Yes, I'm following the basic design afforded by Paul Sellers.

My modifications
Using Wedge Powered vices ala shipwright
I used draw bores and dowels to ensure the M&T joints on the legs will never come undone.

Mine will only be 5 feet long and just over 2 feet wide. I just don't have the room for the full size 96" x 36".

More progress.
Set the knife wall and kerf those through dadoes









Get rid of the corners so the fillister plane does not blow them out.









Go to town with the fillister and then follow up with a shoulder plane to get things square, a smooth plane to ensure the bottom is flat.

Glue on the top Board and turn those through dadoes into stopped dadoes.









Second apron done. Now I need to do the second top section, well board, clean it all up and take care of the vises.


----------



## widdle

Good work there terry. Is that doug fir moving on you much ?


----------



## palaswood

Yes, very nice job - and what widdle said - how is the doug fir holding up after lamination?


----------



## richardwootton

I can't speak for Terry, but my laminated pine beater bench has been surprisingly stable.


----------



## TerryDowning

The boards did move (Twist, cup, bow) after i first got them. Many of these boards sat on my garage floor over a year before I could find a round tuit and start this bench.

a couple of the boards wound up being down right unusable for this project due to wood movement They still had the pith in them. and wound up twisting, cupping and bowing all at the same time.

Some of the tuba 4s are actually hemlock (the lighter colored ones) rather than DF All were from the so called premium pile and marked as kiln dried. (Whether this is true or not, I don't know but they were lighter than the ones marked as wet/green)If they truly are kiln dried i don't know to what Moisture content they are going to.

Hasn't moved a bit (That I can tell since lamination) it has not been too long though.


----------



## richardwootton

Terry those are normally dried to 19 percent, at least they are in my neck of the woods.


----------



## Buckethead

Pose coming soon.

I'm liking that bench, and the wedge vises gonna be fun to watch. I'm hoping you'll post lots of during pics there.

And LAWL on "The round tuit"!


----------



## Pezking7p

Tuba fors.


----------



## Buckethead

Fun time, Pez. Go ahead and bust out that chainsaw, and make short work of those mortises!


----------



## richardwootton

Lookin' gouda Pez! Are those Cherry strips amongst the oak?


----------



## Pezking7p

Bucket, I'm really dreading fitting these things. Just going to take it one mortise at a time.

Rich, thanks. Yah those are cherry strips. The bench top lost more during milling than anticipated so I had to beef up the width with some cherry.


----------



## shampeon

It's a scientific fact that only woodworkers with the greatest sexual potency choose red oak and cherry for their workbenches.


----------



## richardwootton

That's funny, I think I'm actually going to have to do the same thing. Either that or break down and buy more Red Oak. It just so happens that I've got a lot of thick Cherry and walnut already on hand, but I really don't want to use it on my bench if I can help it.


----------



## richardwootton

Haha Ian! You posted that before I could finish typing!


----------



## Pezking7p

Shamp, that's our "wood" sense


----------



## theoldfart

Ian, you are correct!


----------



## merrill77

No progress on the bench last night-spent the evening looking through the lumber racks for some cherry boards.


----------



## palaswood

About to glue up the workbench top - gonna go with pine.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Atta boy Joseph. Get on it.

Droppin bombs. She's done baby. Done.


----------



## widdle

palaswood… good on ya..what made you go with pine ?
Well done Redmon…well planned out..may poach your plan a bit although i only got room for about 6 footah…


----------



## terryR

Certainly a build to be proud of, Red! 
And the top is what…48" off the floor?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys. It's 46" tall Terry. I wouldn't change a thing about it.

One of my fav parts is the storage area behind the moxon. I left it there for my shooting board and DT alignment jig. I also made sure there was enough room there for a holdfast to come through.


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, that's better looking than you are! Nice work.

DanK


----------



## JayT

> BRK, that s better looking than you are! Nice work.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Sure nuf. Of course that's a pretty low bar . . . .


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^lol….Tis true. August and I are in a special group of men. Ya know, those guys who were lucky to marry a nice looking gal….and have a their kids turn out like her;-)

As least I cut my hair since college.


----------



## Buckethead

That 'fro is top ten action.


----------



## shampeon

The best part of that ginger fro is it clears cobwebs while you work. Clever move, Rojo.


----------



## john2005

I think I saw him at McDs once….


----------



## JayT

OK, I have the misfortune to finish up a new bench right after Red posts that beauty. I may not be able to match his quality, yet, but can still build something to meet my needs.


----------



## shampeon

That is amazingly cool, Jay. Smart!


----------



## ToddJB

That's awesome jt. No misfortune there.


----------



## Pezking7p

Jay that thug is really cool. Love the pipe vise features, ingenious design.

I'm chiseling out mortises. This is going to take a while….also, it's clear that I'm terrible at chiseling 90 degree faces.


----------



## Buckethead

Sweat not on the red envy. Most of us have it, but any you have isn't warranted. This saw bench is most excellent. I am stealing it… And when I build it, I'm gonna make it moxon height, split top, and milk painted pine, so I can deny that I copied you, Red and Terry.


----------



## richardwootton

That has got to be the coolest saw bench ever Jay!


----------



## jmartel

Dan,

Do you have mortising chisels? They are awesome. My mortises got much better when I picked up a pair.


----------



## Buckethead

Also check out Paul sellers for technique tips. I worked the outside edge first. Wrong tack. I'll try to find it and link it. Amazingly efficient.


----------



## Buckethead

Check it:


----------



## widdle

great bench there Jayt, what kind of lumber is the top ?


----------



## JayT

widdle, the whole thing is mostly red oak from a batch of trucking skids I got really cheap. The only parts not red oak are the shelf and the face vise chops.


----------



## Pezking7p

Jmart and bucket. I learned to chop mortises from Paul sellers, and I use his techniques with bench chisels. I think the real problem is that I've only cut like 8 mortises ever. I talk a big game but my experience is extremely limited. You think mortise chisels are that much better? I like my narex chisels pretty well, I'd snag a few mortise chisels from them.

Well, I've got all the mortises drilled out. I put the wife to work and she got almost one mortise chopped/cleaned, and I got one chopped and started fitting. I need a rasp or something. Maybe some 40 grit taped to a stick? Any cheap options for a useable rasp?










It feels like I can get this one done in another hour or so.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pez- trick for chopping mortises at 90 degrees. Doesn't need to be that tall of a scrap though.


----------



## CL810

Dan, what are you telling us? Spouse in the shop and your fitting your tenon in the mortise. Not subtle. :-0)


----------



## Pezking7p

Red, cool idea.

Clayton, I set my benchtop height at 31" to make it easier to fit my tenons at the bench


----------



## Buckethead

Is that a big red shop made clamp?


----------



## woodcox

I used an eastwing mortising hammer for a minute. 
Beatitudal joinery bench there Red! good eye through out. Amazing shop fixture and definetly way it oughta be stuff…

In my best Redford on top of Delle Bolton.."lawd". 

















One of these days I'm gonna actually put holes in my wench


----------



## palaswood

The top is pretty much flat - gonna glue on the oak pallet runners I been savin. I went with pine for 2 reasons- because Paul Sellers said it'll make a "stout workbench" (love his accent) and because I had all the wood Id need on hand already, and It's all free, reclaimed wood I been stockpiling (no, not hoarding…) ... (ok hoarding).

I kept it lean n mean at about 5 ft by around 20". Not fixed on height yet but I'm gluing up legs this morning so I better figure it out eh


----------



## bandit571

For those wondering how my old saw bench is holding up









Seems there just wasn't enough room for it in the Dungeon Shop last fall, so it SAT OUTSIDE all through the winter. It was even home to the Recycle bins, to keep them up out of the snow.

Right now, I trying to rehab a "smaller" saw…..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Is that a big red shop made clamp?
> 
> - Buckethead


Nah, that's just a pic off the webs. I would normally lay a piece of 5/4 stock flat and use it as reference. I was too lazy to take a pic yesterday. I just took it easy for once


----------



## Buckethead

But… But… The double entendre. It IS a big, red, shop made clamp. (Punctuation makes the statement true)


----------



## woodcox

Floor jack holding "it" up bandit?

Ed. Punctuation makes me wish I had that problem


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> OK, I have the misfortune to finish up a new bench right after Red posts that beauty. I may not be able to match his quality, yet, but can still build something to meet my needs.
> 
> - JayT


Ya, but JayT bench was awarded "Editors Choice." As hard as I try, I have never been given such an honor. 
(hangs over-sized red afro).


----------



## bandit571

Floor jack just sits there to stay out of the rain. Spent a whopping $3 on the jack, and I'm worried about it getting wet?

No stain or finish on the saw bench. That red colour is from all the rusty & crusty stuff I've cleaned off out there, the Boss gets mad IF I use her kitchen for this sort of thing…


----------



## Pezking7p

Good god. Way different level of respect for the people who have done this and make it look beautiful.


----------



## PhotoButtons

Any suggestions to best place to find a quality vice


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, your close. I'm having the same issues, about an 1/8" off square from the top.


----------



## Buckethead

Mine don't look any better. The last two looked better than the first two , which made, after such careful planning and wood selection, the front of the bench into the back.

You asked about a rasp, iirc, as I was in a state of near sleep last night. I have greatly benefited from the use of a Shinto saw rasp. I never would have gotten them as good as I did without it. It has a rough and fine side, and works like a dream.

Removing a bunch of meat takes time, but these rasps are aggressive enough to get it done, while gentle enough to keep it pretty. Not cheap. In the $30 range, but well worth it, IMO. You'll revisit it on your next project, and the following one.


----------



## Pezking7p

Lev, I'm hoping the next legs fit better. I screwed this leg up while making it. So it's my "practice leg" lol.

Bucket. Thanks. $30 is wayyy cheaper than the $130 auriou that everyone swoons over. I'll check out the Shinto.


----------



## BustedClock

Umm… Woodcox,

"One of these days I'm gonna actually put holes in my wench"?

I think wenches come pretty much pre-equipped with all the… nah, too easy!


----------



## widdle

Pez..Those look tight from here..
Do you guys ever consider making a 3/4" master template of your mortise and tenons that register The edge of your bench ? and then would register your chisel..sort of like what Red mentioned, except the whole profile…


----------



## Buckethead

That is a smart idea, Widdle. Hog out most of the material but finish with a paring chisel and the jig. Could make it with a circular saw, if you needed to. Both angled sides. Heck, one for the square mortise as well. All four sides.


----------



## ColonelTravis

So the rasp helps for those giant mortises? 
By the way, the Shinto saw rasps are on sale at Woodcraft now.


----------



## Buckethead

They worked better for me than paring with chisels. I now realize that though my chisels were new and of reasonable quality, I did not have them sufficiently sharp. You could have told me that then, but I was convinced that I could not get them any sharper than they already were. I was probably right ;-).

The Shinto gave me the ability to remove small, controlled amounts of material. I did flatten out by paring with the chisel.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Interesting, thanks. I just got the Narex 3-pack mortise chisels, need to refine their edges and I'll see how that goes. Actually, I need to glue up my @#$%! top and then I'll see how it goes.


----------



## Pezking7p

Interesting idea about the guide widdle. My chisels tend to get "pulled" into the cut and I haves had super luck with guides. But, I only tried one once, for a mallet.

I will say, the second leg is going much better than the first.

Col Travis, I will say that a rasp has an advantage over the chisels because it can create a flat face, something that's much harder to do with a chisel.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Joinery, whether its dovetails or mortise and tenon, should be simple if you think about it. It just takes marking, sawing, and chiseling. Problem is, you have to get really good at all three;-)


----------



## widdle

I admire the simple approach and free hand techniques of the hand tool only users….But I'll add that any time you can take out measuring , transfering of marks and the thickness of pencil lines for me , makes for less little errors….About ten years ago i worked on a large home and one of the lead supervisers/ carpenter, would make me make full size mock ups and templates of everything, sometimes a full day just for the mock up..Drove me nuts…But i very much appreciate it now.. full arsenal of template bits are a good investment ..


----------



## widdle

Check this out for handwork..


----------



## shampeon

Drilled some dog holes today. Here was my technique:









I marked out the spacing with some dividers, then drilled two template holes in a piece of scrap. After doing the first hole I then used a dog to keep the spacing between dog holes consistent, then clamped and bored out the next hole using my brace. I reset the template after each hole.

I chamfered the holes with a spherical stone bit or whatever those things are









Oh yeah, remember my hand-forged holdfasts?


----------



## RPhillips

Shamp, looking good man


----------



## Buckethead

Nice work Shamp. Smart technique. The holdfasts are lovely. Very graceful.


----------



## Pezking7p

Ok. Two legs down this weekend. I'm feeling pretty good. At this rate, I might be ready to cut stretchers in a week or two. Then it's on to deadman and leg vise.

What's the easiest/fastest way to mount a leg vise?


----------



## Buckethead

You're on fire Dan!

I found the leg vise to be pretty easy, though it took far longer than the hour I imagined.

I clamped my chop in place and drilled through to ensure the holes aligned well, and the chop rested flush with the top of the bench.

Mine was a simple vise screw. Just drill a hole, and mount the flange to the back side of the leg. Placing the chop is important here, as is getting a reasonably perpendicular hole. Really not difficult. You are on the toughest part of the build now.

The chop was a fun project in itself, but having a leg vise to hold it would have been ideal. ;-)


----------



## shampeon

Getting the vise nut centered is the most important part. The Benchcrafted instructions were pretty good on this.

Drill the hole (oversize) for the screw through the leg and chop. Mount the vise screw to the chop, then thread on the nut. Tighten the screw until it's almost full closed, then push on the handle to center the screw in the hole. Keeping pressure on the handle thread the nut until it's tight, then mark for the screws for the nut.

This part was non-trivial, at least for me. I had to shim one side of the nut, as I think the nut casting wasn't totally perpendicular, and mounting it flush resulted in serious binding of the screw. I added thin washers between the nut and the leg on one side, and it solved it.

Anyway, I would say that you should not rush this. It's a pretty vital part of the bench build. Get it right.


----------



## Pezking7p

Shamp, like the dog hole idea, keeps the bit nice and square, too. I love your holdfasts. Did you buy them or find someone to make them? Inquiring minds want to know.

Bucket, thanks. I'm looking forward to being done with legs.


----------



## shampeon

Dan: made them with the help of my friend Mike, in the red shirt here. He's a metal sculptor and teacher at the Art Institute here. We used the metal shop and forge for this. His buddy is showing me how to pound the bejesus out of the end to flatten it.









I didn't get pics of bend it, but it was fun. Heating it up in a forge, then swinging it on a big ol' anvil to make the curves.


----------



## Pezking7p

Cool stuff. I wonder if anyone around here has a forge. Craigslist to the rescue?

I forgot to ask about your stone ball. What's that about? Never heard of one before.


----------



## shampeon

It's just a ball-nose grinding bit I bought at the local Ace. It's 1" diameter, with a regular 1/4" shaft. Makes a terrible whine when using it in my egg beater drill, but works great for chamfering holes.


----------



## SamuelP

The greatest american Hero! I want one of those holdfasts.


----------



## ColonelTravis

That's awesome. I bought my holdfasts like a lame, boring buyer.


----------



## widdle

you guys are goin off..Nice..


----------



## merrill77

JayT - that is nice! Well done.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Wid- Generally if I'm making multiples I justify a template. If it's just one part, I just do it by hand.

Pez- re: leg vise.

- Drill your holes in your leg before you install the legs. 
- With any vise jaw or chop, leave the chop a little tall. You can always saw or plane it down.


----------



## DanKrager

FYI, a handy little forge can be made in any charcoal grill or fire pit. Load it with charcoal (lots is required) and get it started. A hot air gun, old hair dryer, or even a vacuum with hose on blower side can be the "bellows". Bury your iron in the coals, turn on the air (gently until you get the "feel" for how much is best…you can get too much) and watch as your sizable iron begins to glow. 
If you are going to do this more than once, a layer of sand or gravel in the bottom will help keep the grill pan from getting too hot. 
As always, be careful.
DanK


----------



## john2005

I second the "drill legs before you install" advice. That would have been easier…


----------



## TerryDowning

> About to glue up the workbench top - gonna go with pine.
> 
> - palaswood


Looking forward to seeing the progress.



> ^Atta boy Joseph. Get on it.
> 
> Droppin bombs. She s done baby. Done.
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Awesome Red!



> OK, I have the misfortune to finish up a new bench right after Red posts that beauty. I may not be able to match his quality, yet, but can still build something to meet my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> - JayT


Amazing Jay!

Dan, way to make it a family affair on the bench build. My wife just seems to tolerate the affliction.

Ian awesome little how to on the dog hole drilling. I hope to be drilling mine soon.

Progress on the Bench this weekend.

Finished the second apron, got that installed. Glued up the second top. (No pics but we've all seen laminates glue up pics.)
Glued the second top to the apron









All bolted down









Let the flattening begin. (Just 30 minutes with my Scrub-Jack and Jointer)









Also started ripping the well board. (I just need to finish ripping and do the fitting.)









Leg Vise, Dog holes and details (Like clean up the ends)

It's starting to look and act like a bench now though. I'll probably move it into the Garage shop this week as it's getting too hot to work in the backyard anymore. I'll finish the Leg vise and detail with it in the shop.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Bravo, Terry.


----------



## DanKrager

It's moving along nicely and quickly Terry! ^+1.
DanK


----------



## Buckethead

I can't believe how much progress you've made, Terry! Well done!


----------



## shampeon

That's looking awesome, Terry. Nice shot of the level. Feels good when that works out, don't it?


----------



## Pezking7p

Terry, looking badass. Do you leave the bench outside all the time or move it outside each time you work on it?


----------



## ToddJB

Terry, is that a homemade straight edge? I see in a lot of your pics and I want to see it in a lot of mine.


----------



## TerryDowning

Yes, shop made straight edge

I have been leaving it out. No rain here in So Cal.

Speaking of progress

I got a lot of time on the bench today

Fitted the well board









Basically done except for the vices and dog holes, so time to move it into the shop









I even started on the vices by getting the guide beams fitted.









Back yard shop all cleaned up and closed for the summer, too darn hot!










Broken down and moved to its new home.


----------



## Buckethead

Nifty trick with the Terry Saw Bench fitting conveniently underneath.

You've really impressed on this build, Terry. Started, then… BLAM! BENCH!


----------



## shampeon

Wow, Terry. Nice job. And +1 on the saw bench fitting underneath. That's using your noggin.

I got the end vise and chops mounted, and put on the first coat of my BLO/DNA/shellac mixture.


----------



## ToddJB

Terry, hand made straight edge. Awesome. Do youbdetails about it? Have youbseen any movement in it that affects is straightness?


----------



## Buckethead

That looks like a million bucks, Ian. What's the proportions of your secret sauce? The finish looks great.


----------



## ToddJB

Cuss, Ian. That's so badass.


----------



## shampeon

1 part each, Bucket. Roughly. I don't get too scientific with it. Then shake it up before using. The shellac and DNA speed up the drying of the BLO.

I'm so, so stoked about this bench.


----------



## richardwootton

Ian you're a man among men! Well done brother. Do I sense a Bondo pose in your future?


----------



## widdle

Cali representin..


----------



## CL810

Awesomeness Terry & Ian!


----------



## Airframer

Someone was looking for some 203's a while back iirc?

There are a couple pairs on eBay right now..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-OF-STANLEY-NO-203-BENCH-BRACKETS-/301222931242?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4622492b2a

http://www.ebay.com/itm/STANLEY-203-BENCH-BRACKETS-TYPE-ONE-PATENTED-1915-PLANE-AID-/251570857851?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a92caa77b


----------



## skipmathews

Here is a link to my workbench project…

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/102962


----------



## ColonelTravis

I'm…

SNIFFLES

I'm like…

....so proud of all of you.


----------



## ToddJB

AF - those prices seem super high to me.


----------



## ToddJB

Skip, welcome!


----------



## shampeon

Skip, that bench is sweet. Looks like a pristine vintage bench.


----------



## Airframer

Todd - I agree but thought if folks were desperate enough they might be worth it. I think I paid almost $40 for my one so $85 for the pair wouldn't be out of the question really.


----------



## palaswood

How are those 203s used? Eric are you using yours often?

*Please help Guys* if I want to do a LOT more handcut joints for boxes and drawers and such, as well as dimension small to medium stock on the bench, what VISES do I need on my new bench? So far I have a pine top glued up, and flattened and I'm very open to ideas at this point. I'm leaning toward a moxon-type plus a dog holes & tail vise setup.
How useful are leg vises? 
Is a sliding deadman useful/ necessary?
I'm open to making wedged vices like Shipwrights's V8, but is it too much work without a bandsaw? (can't get the blade to stay on the WT)

Do I need an apron? if so how wide an apron for a skinny 20" x 5' joinery bench.

Give me tips! Point me in directions! Send me links! I have 3 solid days of woodworking ahead of me this weekend and I dont want it to go to waste.

Here is close-up of my handplaned and awful glue joints - (I was hoping the clamping would close those up) but that just means I have lots of room for rapid improvement


----------



## ToddJB

Joseph, like this:


----------



## CL810

Prices for the 203's are like anything on eBay. If you do a search for sold 203's only you'll find the range to be 16-50+ with an average of probably being 30-40 + shipping depending on condition.

Be sure to take note of the different "clamping feet." (I wish I knew more terminology for all these thing-a-ma-jigs.). One style is smooth and the other is not. I have the non-smooth ones and they do leave an impression. With a capacity of 2.5" it hasn't been a problem for me. Since I can slip in a protective board if necessary.


----------



## merrill77

So far, the planing beam w/ wedge and wagon vices are my most-used devices when holding parts for hand plane work. Most bench designs don't use a planing beam - the common alternative to that is a leg vice / sliding deadman or a wedge with some way to hold up the other end of the workpiece.

You might want to take a look at chapter 3 of Schwarz's workbench book (blue one, I think) - he covers the common ways of holding parts for common operations. Also, his "kitchen door" test-how are you going to hold a kitchen door to work on each of the 6 faces?


----------



## CL810




----------



## Mosquito

I use my leg vise pretty much every time I use my bench, but that's also because that's what I have for a face vise. Anytime I plane anything, the wagon vise comes in handy. If you were doing a lot of cross grain planing, you may want to think about some form of stop on the back. I don't like to crank down too hard on my wagon vise, but then sometimes the workpiece will slip out of from between the dogs when I'm scrubbing cross grain


----------



## CL810

Dang Todd you're fast!!


----------



## ToddJB

I might be faster, but you'll always be prettier.


----------



## Airframer

I want to play too!

I use mine all the time. It really is great in the deadman.










The only issue is that the holes need to be 1" in diameter and no thicker than 3/4" on the back side but that can be done like this..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Joseph- Does a store near you stock this book? I think it would answer all your questions better than we could. 
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## widdle

Palaswood. I kind of discounted the Schwartz book prior to reading it. It's actually good and he emphasizes a plan and he keeps it pretty simple. The only boring thing that I will add is take a sheet of ply and snap out a full scale basic drawing. I think it may help to make sure vises work, dog holes and having to go back words. I have general question on leg vises . On a fairly typical leg vise with metal screw , if you put a 1×6" x 12" and put
It vertically on the right side of the single screw, does any racking occur ? And if you go from 1" material to 1 1/2" material is
It
Always necessary to change the pin at the base of the chop ?


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## Mosquito

depends on the set up, Widdle.

There is racking with mine if I clamp only on one side. To combat this, I just keep a few scraps handy to put on the other side.

For changing the pin, depending on material thickness, it depends on your setup and how tight the screw is in the chop. The tighter the fit (the less wiggle you have in the chop on the screw) the more you have to adjust the pin. I use a wooden screw with nut on the bottom of mine and I would probably give it a turn or two (6TPI screw) for a 1/2" change.

That said, however, I've got the 3/4" nut (wooden board) on the bottom that isn't recessed or anything, so I clamp even 1/8" thick boards with a 3/4" setting on the bottom with no problems.


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## palaswood

I'll pick the book up, thanks guys.

I like to get the word from the horses mouth, and you guys have logged plenty of shop time, so I do appreciate your input. Sometimes its hard to tell which techniques work best for me coming out of books, since I'm not making kitchen doors and won't be on this bench. But when that time comes, (not if), I plan on having built a 2nd, more permanent bench.

This is me getting my feet wet.


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## widdle

Thanks Mos..For use of discussion the set up im throwing out is a 1" x 6" x 12" chucked up vertically, working the end grain.. And if anyone is interested in chimming in..What is your top built of ? and would you use it again ?


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## Mosquito

That's kind of the approach I took, Palas. My current bench is only 4' long (51") and 11.5" deep (not including tool well). Made it for my apartment, and so I could collapse it to get it in my car (to move and to use on weekends at my parents or something).

Turns out, my smaller bench is perfect for my spare-bedroom shop (both at the apartment and the house we're renting now). I too hope to build a larger (heavier) bench once I have a more dedicated shop space, and hopefully a little more space.


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## Mosquito

*widdle* my vise capacity is up to 22" now (I cut it down to get the screw length so it didn't stick out beyond my bench), so it'd work with the same caveat as I described. If it racks at 3/4" it'll rack at 6" too. Just make sure the bench is heavy/stable enough to support working on something hanging that far off the front of your bench.

My top is 12/4 red oak and I would use it again. Only thing I don't like about it, is that it's not quite as heavy as I wish it were for some stuff, but also just the smaller size of my bench attributes to that as well. Being designed to be portable, though, I'm not sure the lighter weight is bad (I can still carry it by myself)


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Joseph, congrats on your upcoming three days. Have a ball!

There's more in the blog series and project posts (found from my homepagehere on LJs) than you'd likely ever read, but I'm a huge advocate of leg vises and the #203/deadman combo.


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## merrill77

@palaswood - My apologies for not being clear. The point I was trying, poorly, to make was that you need consider how you will work each face and edge of whatever you are working on. "dimension small to medium stock on the bench" sounds like kitchen cabinet door-sized things to me. <shrug>


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## shampeon

One advantage of Boatman's chain guide or the criss-cross is that you don't have to adjust the parallel guide. The toe-in is set, and all you have to do is turn the handle.


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## widdle

Smitty ..if you stick a piece of wood similiar to this pic on the right side of your screw , does it rack ? thanks Ian..


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## bandit571

Can't even see my bench right now, someone parked a lathe on it, and turned a Mallet to boot!

Power company came and shut the electric off, so no lights down there, either. will be back in operation in a little bit. Maybe IF the people would just READ a Doctor's statement BEFORE sending the bill…..


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## Buckethead

Thanks for the heads up, Eric. I saw those 203s the other day. I haven't pulled the trigger because I've blown too much on rust lately. That set looks nice though.

For now the holdfasts work since I haven't finished the under bench tool storage.

I will bear witness to this: Framing in the brutally hot and humid temps we've endured of late, really quells the desire to go out into the hot garage and do woodwork or tool rehab in the evening. I'm beat. Not as spry as I once was.


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## widdle

Candles bandit..Oldskool bro..


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## ColonelTravis

Fellas, I'm running into a warping problem with my SYP (gee, warping pine, no kidding?) It's been in the garage for a few months, stickered, cut roughly into 2×3x8 strips. Been planing the faces to prepare for glue-up and so far I'm finding 1/3rd of my boards are not straight enough for the top. Not pleased about that. I've got 30 strips, and 18 maybe 19 (haven't measured exactly yet) will be used for the top.

Haven't planed all the board faces yet but below is what a sampling of the GOOD boards look like. Hopefully I can salvage most the bad ones if I cut them for stretchers and legs, we'll see. Here are a few before clamping:










And here they are, not glued, just clamped with 2-3 bar clamps. Cannot close those gaps.










I know SYP can/will go screwy on you, I didn't think I'd have this many useless boards for the top. I'm afraid my 1/3 bad % will only go up, not down, as I check the remaining ones. Was I wrong in thinking that?


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## Buckethead

Widdle, my leg vise does rack when I clamp down on a work piece set to either side of the screw.

You could feasibly do dovetails or such, but would fare better with a piece of stock of the same dimension on the other side of the screw to prevent racking.

It isn't so drastic as my end vise, and a second Widdle stick might be overkill.


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## widdle

it looks like you still have a little of the eased edge on the tops from the lumber yard ( hard to tell )you could try an remove a litle of the material on the faces and double check that they're flat..and they're is no clamp in your picture soo i would guess half of that gap would go away ..guessing..

thanks bucket..


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## Buckethead

Colonel… Methinks you need more clamps. You should try to oppose bows and crowns to offset the stored tension that straightening will created.

I deal with SYP regularly, and often a twist will be the same in five or six boards stacked on each other. That presents a different problem. Flip them every which way, but the twists still match. If you had yours stickered, I doubt that will be the case.


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## CL810

*Widdle*, my leg vise racks just as Mos said. As to which vises are preferred I'm with Smitty regarding the leg vise/203 combo. To be honest, when I bought the 203's it was an act of faith in Smitty saying how indispensable they are. I can't believe how often I use them. Sitting here, I've only had this bench since November, but I can't think of a project I didn't use them for. I have no strong preference for my end vise (just like the one in your pic) over a wagon vise. I did because I had it, but I suspect I'd be just as happy with an end vise. Why? Well the reason for using a face vise as an end vise is for additional clamping. In 8 months I've yet to use in to clamp a board.

Regarding the wood the top is built with. I used maple and I use a router set up to plane the top because of too much tear out trying to plane it. I don't know from personal experience if ALL maple is that way, but the maple I had was terrible. So, I would use it again, but not if I only used hand tools. Then again, it may be a skills issue on my part.


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## CL810

*Colonel*, +1 to what Bucket & Widdle said. My first bench was SYP and I had the same issues. To help with gaps, run a plane down the middle of the vertical sides and it will help bring them together. I think Schwarz covered that in his book.

And have you run them through a planer? Be careful how much you take off in one day. SYP is sensitive to taking off wood. Seemed to move every time I dimensioned it.


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## widdle

Cool..thanks cl810..Hard maple on you top ? Interesting on the end vise..i use mine quite a bit for edge planing material from a foot to around 4 foot ..The end vise on the lie nielsen benches seem to work killer..


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## ColonelTravis

More clamps! Thought about that, didn't try it yet. And yeah, I've been flipping boards trying to get better matches, that does help.

Variation on the more clamps idea - and this will take longer but I don't care if it's how I get them straight - but if I glue 2 boards together with massive clamping power instead of 4-5, that helps tremendously.

OK, I think I'm out of pissed-off mode now, thanks.


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## CL810

*Widdle*, no soft maple. And the 203/leg vise combo is for edge jointing and will handle much longer boards.

*Colonel*, remember that the force of the clamps is directional; 45 degrees from the pressure point. So the to cover the first joint lines the clamps have to be close or use additional boards. The thinner your boards are the closer the clamps have to be. Am I making sense?

So I don't think doing just 2 boards at a time will help, but I wouldn't recommend trying more than 4 at a time. Maybe even 3 the first time. Also, to keep the boards from slipping while clamping I used dowels to line up the boards. (I think Old Fart used biscuits.) I really believe that little trick almost qualifies for Kung Fu Magic status; it's that helpful. I Used 4 for a 7 foot long bench.


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## Buckethead

Also colonel; maybe I'm losing it in translation, but you don't want to match bows, crowns and twists. You want to oppose them. So if you have two boards that are shaped like a letter C, you would place them where the ends meet, like the letter O, or where the middle meets like the letter X. That opposing force will minimize the effects of stress in your finished top.

I prefer the O method, because it makes it easier to flush the ended up. Less waste in the final cut.


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## ColonelTravis

CL - yeah, think I understand. So you're saying it's not necessarily impossible to glue 2 at a time, but it would be easier/more practical if you did at least 3? Is this also because with 3 that middle board is sandwiched and the two outer boards even out the clamping pressure more?

Bucket, yeah, we're on the same page there, thanks.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Widdle, the leg vise can be wracked but it hardly matters as the stuff being held is able to be worked (with no movement) with surprisingly little clamping pressure. Watching Tom Fidgen was amazing; he put a TON of psi on his vises, much more than necessary.

90% of the stuff I work is 3/4" or 1/2", so a couple pieces of scrap, with a nail stuck in front, are handy to drop into the top if needed for balance.


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## widdle

Ok..Smitty..good info..


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## palaswood

Is it just me? Or are even the fanciest of vises liable to racking, and you just have to face the reality that you will need to use spacers


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## CL810

Colonel, you still have to address the first joint line. So adding boards that are NOT a part of the glue up might let you get by with fewer clamps IF you can still generate enough force to close up a joint. This pic shows how the area covered by clamping force is increased by adding boards.


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## Airframer

Can't say I have ever had a real issue with my leg vise racking so badly I would need spacers. I have held some pretty thin pieces in the edge of the vise and it holds like crazy with little effort and only a slight bit of racking. YMMV.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Aha, gotcha now. Thanks so much.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Eric- tru dat.


----------



## Pezking7p

CL nice visual. Never thought of the force distribution like that before.

Colonel, it might help to think about extremes..if you were trying to glue together two pieces of balsa wood 1/8 inch thick, you're going to need a lot of clamps to get them flat. But if you glue two pieces of balsa that are 2" thick, a couple clamps will do because the boards are stiffer. More boards = more force distribution.

Trying to work up my courage to go work on some leg mortises.


----------



## Buckethead

+1, Dan.

I just learnt sumpm.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Well said, Dan. All you people have been very helpful, I greatly appreciate it. Actually I only need 15-16 boards for my top, so that makes it more of a relief about the warped boards. Getting excited about progress finally.


----------



## Pezking7p

Don't sweat it col. Everything's gonna come together nicely.

Hot as balls in the shop. I got the last dovetail sawed and split out some waste. The dovetail fit isn't going to be fantastic but what could I expect?


----------



## shampeon

Put in the shelf with some leftover click-lock bamboo flooring:









Bondo pose before the 4th of July, I reckon.


----------



## Pezking7p

Dude that click lock flooring is a sweet idea. I've got a box hiding behind my couch that may end up in something…


----------



## DanKrager

Colonel, if you need more clamps on a really tight budget, I've found that some 3/8" all thread can save the day. To make just one clamp, take two pcs 5/4 oak about 2" wide and drill two 3/8" holes edgewise through the pieces just far enough apart to accommodate the bench top thickness. Using four nuts and four washers on two pieces of all thread long enough to span your glue up completes the "parallel arm" clamp, one all thread on top, the other on bottom. You can apply outrageous pressure with this setup. If the 5/4 pieces are layed over at say 45°, the pressure spread is different than if the pieces are perpendicular to the top. 
Over the years I have added to my all thread clamp system until some hardware stores would be jealous of my inventory, and they get a lot of use. I happen to have a large inventory of quick acting knobs that a metal worker milled for me many years ago, when things were much cheaper, and that does speed things up. When money is tighter than time…these are tried, true, and flexible. 
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Is it just me? Or are even the fanciest of vises liable to racking, and you just have to face the reality that you will need to use spacers
> 
> - palaswood


Yup, they're all gonna rack a little. They just need to sufficiently hold your work…that's all. 
And sorry if my other response seemed short by just referring a book, but there's s a great chapter or two in there that will make you think about all the ways you will use you bench. It will lay out the strengths and weaknesses of each vise setup…etc.

Forgot to post this testimony for leg vise strength. When I was reworking my joinery benchtop (by myself), I needed to remove the holdfast and let this huge benchtop down:








-
So I removed the holdfast expecting the benchtop to pivot down (there's nothing holding that but the leg vise):








-
Except it didn't. It barely moved when I tried to push it down. That benchtop is 9'x 2"x 30" white oak. Kinda tripped me out.


----------



## john2005

^bada$$


----------



## ColonelTravis

Red studied woodworking under this guy:


----------



## palaswood

I dont know if I would feel safe working under that guy - what if his invisible strings snap?


----------



## shampeon

Deadman walking.

Nice, wavy bubinga.









Cut some hickory rails, and mounted an angle iron on the top.

















Used a piece of the rest of the hickory for the bracket, and cut a slot for the angle iron.

























And put on some finish.


----------



## Pezking7p

Ian that looks great. I love iron mixed with wood, and it's well done here. How does it…ummm…go on the rails? Is the slot deep enough that it fits up over the angled wooden rail?


----------



## ToddJB

Beautiful - in a totally manly woodworking kinda way


----------



## richardwootton

You are a machine Ian! This whole working 50+ hours a week really puts a damper on me doing anything in the shop quickly, but I can say that I have finally finished thickness dimensioning all of the red oak, by hand, for my bench. Roughly 130 board feet. I am somewhat concerned that it won't be quite enough lumber when it's all said and done, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.


----------



## shampeon

There's a smaller piece hickory rail on the right that I can unscrew to put it in or take it off. Stole it from one of the other benches here, so whoever thought that up, thanks!


----------



## JayT

Been away from the interwebz for a few days, so trying to catch up.

That bench totally rocks, shamp!

TerryD making good progress.

One of the joys of construction lumber, ColT. It still makes a good bench when you're done.


----------



## shampeon

Richard: I had today off, and am really pushing since I see the finish line. What you're not seeing is the literal years I've put into this thing. When I started planning my build, I probably changed my mind on what I was going to build every couple months.

130 BF of red oak, dimensioned by hand, is some serious man ********************. Kudos. Any little progress is progress, is my feeling.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

*Colonel,*
I had the same problem with some DF 2X4 I laminated (SYP is expensive in AZ). I'd plane, sticker, and then repeat. The stuff never stopped moving after 4 tries. 
My final solution was wasteful and crude, but worked: I only prepped the 4-5 pieces that I could glue up in the same session to minimize movement. I also treated the ~6" wide subassemblies the same way before final assembly.

Found it best to run both faces of each board across my jointer to make them flat (disregarding parallel thickness uniformity), and then glued them up within an hour or so. Was truly ugly as the worst of them ended up 1/4" thinner on one end or the other, still ended up having to clamp every ~8-10", but the gaps were easily removed. Since matching the now parallelograms is near impossible, you will need to cut or joint the subassembly edges straight to help keep it more square overall in the final glue up as well. Yes, the glues line aren't parallel (call it a design feature), and the process ended up using a couple more boards after all the trimming, but 2X4 are relatively cheap.
BR


----------



## terryR

Wow, you guys continue to raise the bar on bench building!

Ian, I wish I had enough courage in my skills to add a $90 piece of Bubinga as a deadman! LOL. But, it looks awesome, and the angle iron seems like a good approach for a rail.

Colonel, I wouldn't let a few gaps slow you down…more clamps or cauls should help. Always can use epoxy or fiberglass resin to fill those gaps. But the construction grade lumber is gonna move some as it dries. No worries, soon those gaps will be filled with sawdust, stone dust, metal filings, and coffee dribble!  Then, your bench will look like this…










A good place to get some man work done! And, I never have to worry over an errant rasp mark deterring from the looks of my bench.


----------



## terryR

Also, FWIW, I glued up my benchtop 4-5 sticks at a time. I couldn't lift more. I think 13 sticks in total?

I ripped the 2×12's to my desired 3.125" on the same day, but kept them tightly clamped and cauled together until glue up…only days later.

Also, I'm not sure I would flatten each of these 'sections' separately ( but, I didn't use a planer ), I think flattening the whole top at once is easier and saves a few steps. Of course, I've never tried the alternative…LOL.


----------



## Pezking7p

Captains and colonels, this joint is going military!

Captain, I forgot until you said but but somebody famous agrees with you (schwarz?) about only dimensioning what you will use for that day when using pine. Good call.


----------



## shampeon

Installed the deadman, and made a couple more bench dogs for it.

















Which means, this bench is for all intents and purposes, done.









And the Bondo pose:


----------



## ToddJB

Woah Momma! The bench is nice too.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

STONE. COLD. PIMP.


----------



## theoldfart

Friggin awesome Ian! Congrats


----------



## Buckethead

Beautiful work, Ian! You're definitely in the upper tier of pimps. The dovetailed breadboards… The splayed legs… The massive leg vise chop. No shortcuts, and no easy outs. A truly impressive bench.

Let's get this beauty in a project for the DT3 factor.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Sweet brother. You're skill level is over 9000


----------



## CL810

Ian, you worked some monster pimp magic on that bench!


----------



## shampeon

Gracias, amigos. Today is also my 39th birthday, so with this bench it feels like I'm ready for the preseason for my 40s. 8^)

Project posted:
!


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Happy birthday bud.


----------



## richardwootton

Ian, freaking awesome job on the bench! Bad ass Bondo pose, and happy birthday friend! I will take a shot of tequila in your honor tonight (and because I want one).


----------



## widdle

^ orale richard..good man..

Ian, well done that bench has it all..very cool..Soo what kind of vise did you go with on the end there ? cheers..


----------



## waho6o9

Happy Birthday Ian!

Congrats on a fine build, you rock Bro.

"You're skill level is over 9000"

This is correct, good call Billy


----------



## shampeon

Widdle: I picked up this American Scale Co. quick-release vise at the local antique fair for $40.









It's a little odd in that you have to use the QR to tighten it. It only tightens 3/4 of a turn by design, so you open the handle all the way to engage the QR, push the jaws closed against the piece, and then tighten the handle. Works great, but it's different than most other QR vises.


----------



## Boatman53

That looks like a great vise there Shamp. Do the threads have a slot cut in them? I have a columbian that works the way you describe. It's pretty handy but the drawback to a quick release vise is you can't use it to disassemble things, not a big deal though.
Jim


----------



## shampeon

Yup, Jim. One side of the screw is bare. There's a floating captive bronze nut that engages when you rotate the screw. 









When I first got the vise, I couldn't figure it out, since my other Columbian QR vises only engaged when unscrewing. It works fine in practice, but as you say, it won't work for spreading things.


----------



## donwilwol

That's the same vice I have. It takes a bit to get used to but works well. I still spin the handle to open it up some times. It's hard to teach an old dog mew tricks.


----------



## john2005

Friggen sweet Ian! And Happy Birthday to boot!


----------



## terryR

Awesome bench, Ian! Certainly one to study when it's time for my next build…

And Happy, Happy!!!


----------



## shampeon

Thanks, everyone. I really couldn't have made nearly so great of a bench without the ideas and advice here.

Adding some leather to faces of the bench dogs.


----------



## Pezking7p

Legs are in. Fit is OK overall, some gaps, and I really messed up one leg on the table saw by doing something stupid. That leg ended up different which caused me to screw up the layout, and I'll have to patch the top on that one, but no biggie.


----------



## Buckethead

Reaching the home stretch! (Do you get it?)


----------



## Pezking7p

Lol home stretch. Still plenty of work to be done!


----------



## palaswood

I'm assuming that was a reference to the stretcher, which should be coming up soon …


----------



## donwilwol

you guys remember this rehab?




























Well Red's joinery bench was enough to get me motivated to start the finish. I think you can see where I'm going with it. It won't be as pretty as Red's. If I made it that pretty my wife would move it to the house!
































































The frame is ash, the drawers made from 5/4 and 3/4 poplar with white oak faces. All from the mill, air dried for about 2 years.


----------



## bandit571

Collecting a bunch of parts for the Tool chest build for under the bench







Hammer head cost me a whopping $1. NEW handle cost a whopping $5.99 + TAX! There is some strange quarter round molding laying there….undecided about it's future uses..

Will be a second Frame & Panel Chest. Might have this one slide out on the metal 3×3 rails. Those long 4×4s are glue ups









That I've already riven down to three planks…of Poplar 4/4×3-1/2. The short ones? glued up as a wrap arounf a 2×2 post. not really worth the effort to take apart. The rest of the long stuff will be rails & styles. The pine 1×10s for a bottom, and a few trays. Have a nice stack of barn siding 1×3s for the rest of the tray parts…..

NOW, IF it would just STOP RAINING! I keep the Saw Bench out there, and I can run that old Circular saw better out there. Ran it so much the last two tears, I needed to replace the Irwin 18 toothed blade. Got a carbide tipped B&D 17 tooth, since I do a LOT of rip cuts in recycled wood. A $4 blade in a $5…65 year old saw. All metal, the handle was getting almost too warm to hold onto. Dull blade..


----------



## ToddJB

Don, drawers are looking great.

Bandit, is your old circ saw a speed-o-matic?


----------



## terryR

Dan, those legs look mighty impressive to me! I hope to give 'em a try on my next bench…

DonW, those are awesome, because the build looks simple enough for ME to pull off! LOL. NEED those under my lathe instead of just open space that collects debris…been using a tie dye curtain.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Awesome Don. Happy to give you a little nudge.

Btw, my shop stuff isn't "pretty", it's handsome;-P


----------



## bandit571

Old saw is a Sears Craftsman all metal saw. 315.27782 Develops 1-3/4 hp. And has Simpson Tools on the label. 5800rpm…..heavy saw…

Guard is getting a bit sticky..


----------



## donwilwol

damn it Terry, you had to remind me I still have another project on the list. I really need to get to the under lathe storage as well. I thought about smaller more complex dovetails. I just don't have the time and if I make it to "handsome* it just will not fit my shop décor.

Red, you do make it handsome!


----------



## NinjaAssassin

It appears I won't be kiln-drying those pine and oak beams any time soon. I have no idea what their moisture content is (I guess step 1 is to figure that out). What does the LJ brain trust say with regards to using green timbers to build a bench? I can imagine green lumber was probably used for benches 300 years ago but I'm just not smart enough yet to know whether or not it'd turn out to be a waste of effort and perhaps lumber.


----------



## merrill77

These are cheap and work reasonably well:
http://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-Instruments-MMD4E-Moisture/dp/B00275F5O2

Note that raw pine will ooze sap indefinitely. Kiln-drying it sets the sap (i.e. solidifies it). I would not use air-dried pine for anything, for this reason.

Personally, I invested a lot of time in building my bench. I hate wasting my time, so I would not use green wood for anything that takes more than an hour to build. Also, being FLAT is a key requirement for my bench. Green wood is unlikely to stay flat as it dries.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Ah, sap. I hadn't thought about that at all. Thanks for the link to the moisture meter.

I suppose I really have no choice but to build a solar kiln whenever that becomes possible and just put off the bench build until then. Thanks for the sanity check!


----------



## terryR

I have to also vote no for green wood and benches. Mine seems fine built outta 12% MC Home Depot pine…been a year and no major cracks or gaps.

But there are relatively cheap methods for a shop-built kiln that I've seen work! I think a fellow LJ invented it, and sells the plans on eBay still…but it's based on a de-humidifier in a shop made frame any size…covered with tarps or plastic. Sounds goofy! But, I've built TWO that worked 100%, and will have one in my new shop after we move.

Red, you certainly DO build nice stuff. Depresses me at times since my skills are so lacking compared to yours.

Oh, Don, when you finish all those friggin drawers, I could use an infill shooter like Ian's! just sayin'


----------



## merrill77

Maybe consider this until you can build the bench of your dreams:
http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/30117/a-workbench-anybody-can-build

I'm not sure how you would plane long edges with this, but I'm not as clever as him. Anyway, I wish I'd done that in my early days. It would still be useful, even now that I have an excellent bench.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

I might be able to figure out a DH kiln solution if I can find a used dehumidifier for cheap. I hadn't considered that option. Powering it is going to be tricky as I don't have power to the shop or an exterior outlet at all. This gives me something to investigate, though. Thanks


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Oh, I've got a moderately useful 2×4 and plywood bench that allows me to do most of the work I need to do. Face planing is convoluted but sawing and edge planing is no problem. I'm just getting impatient is all.


----------



## donwilwol

*Terry*, I happen to have the prototype for the shooter I made. I actually traded it off once for what was supposed to be a type 1 #407 in perfect shape. What I received was far from either. I could probably be convinced to part with it if the trade was interesting enough. Somehow it seems easier to trade then sell. It doesn't make sense, but my mind works in funny ways.

I agree, dry the pine before putting the work into a bench. I may be convinced it's ok for the base, wedged tenons and such, but definitely NOT for the top.

Lowes usually has that exact moisture meter for about the same price, should you have a Lowes local.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

I do indeed have a Lowe's local. Planning on stopping buy for a wire wheel. Might pick one of these up, too.


----------



## donwilwol

I like the lowes wire wheels much better then the home depot ones. The problem is the Lowes that I can get to doesn't usually have them.


----------



## widdle

Very cool Donw and bandit. From mill to Drawers all in house very good..It's a little late i think, but i have some dado set for trade…


----------



## ToddJB

Don, whatchya like better about them?


----------



## August




----------



## Buckethead

Oh. My. God.

Ultimate pimp status with special hidden bonus level, ACHIEVED!


----------



## JayT

Stoopid metal workers got to show up everyone else. ;-P

Dang, August, that is looking sweet, in a space age sort of way. It would be right at home on the Enterprise, if one of the Star Trek officers did woodworking in their down time. Can't wait to see more progress.


----------



## August

Thanks bucket LOL
JayT yes I'm machining a brass plate for the top so I can have a dog hole ,
So u can use it like a end vice almost done,
Just busy with garage and motor mount for my old crescent jointer.


----------



## donwilwol

> Don, whatchya like better about them?
> 
> - ToddJB


they seem to last longer and don't seem to throw as many wires at you.


----------



## ToddJB

That is what I wanted to hear. Thanks Sir


----------



## terryR

Schweet, August!

That's 100 times more brass than I have in my whole shop!


----------



## donwilwol

> - August McCormick Lehman III


The Lee Valley version of the bench.


----------



## Airframer

^HAHAHAHA Can't unsee!

All joking aside that is a work of art! Very cool and why I never thought of a second leg vise is beyond me!


----------



## richardwootton

Eric, august, and all, what would be the benefit of a second leg vise?


----------



## Airframer

Because I am an American male and that means more is always better right?

No I was thinking really long boards or more than one project at a time… simply looking cool who knows.


----------



## richardwootton

Eric, really long boards was my thinking as well. Almost like a giant twin screw vise with divided chops?


----------



## richardwootton

And yeah, dude! Bigger is fo sho better! What other reason would I have for building a bench that will probably be too big for my shop forcing me to enlarge my (yet-to-be-built-but-in-the-plans-detached) shop??


----------



## Mosquito

I recall an old plate (image) from Andre Roubo that had two leg vise, but one was in place of the sliding deadman (was the sliding deadman?)









Useful like this, I suppose









(note, not my bench)


----------



## ColonelTravis

Me looking at the last few pictures


----------



## bandit571

Sure, wait until we all get are benches almost done. Then post a complication like that….

Afraid all mine has (L -R) a Crochet, a block of wood c clamped to the side of the bench, and a leg vise made from a pipe clamp. Sheesh! "The Noirve"


----------



## August

thanks terryR
yeah i have a passion for brass love'em
thanks Don 
lee valley


> ?? LOL
> eric yes second vise is nice so if a left hand person comes he can use it LOL
> well richard the second vise was just a bonus i had the material and i have this idea that i can use my leg vise as a end vise


? not sure how but im hoping my design will speake for its self onces its finish.


----------



## August

thanks terryR
yeah i have a passion for brass love'em
thanks Don 
lee valley


> ?? LOL
> eric yes second vise is nice so if a left hand person comes he can use it LOL
> well richard the second vise was just a bonus i had the material and i have this idea that i can use my leg vise as a end vise


? not sure how but im hoping my design will speake for its self onces its finish.


----------



## August

Hey colonel 
Wait when I'm finish you will be seeing more doubles LOL


----------



## donwilwol

on most benches with 2 leg vices the second one is moveable, giving a lot of flexibility. It kind of takes the place of a deadman.


----------



## terryR

A sliding leg vice? Wow! How did I miss that? Sounds heavy as hell…

...but I sure could've used it yesterday trimming the edges of birch ply. Let the drawer smackdown begin!


----------



## donwilwol

I've thought about a slider for my bench, but I really don't need another vice. Its just another cool idea of something I don't have. Remember, whoever dies with the most tools wins!


----------



## Mosquito

But isn't a workbench a work holding tool?


----------



## merrill77

"but I really don't need another vice."

Amen! You speak the truth, brother.

Oh, wait, you were talking about woodworking…in that case: I've never seen a bench with too many vices!


----------



## merrill77

"Let the drawer smackdown begin!"

I am soooo on top of that. Working on the last 3 drawer boxes (of 19 total) for by under-bench cabinet. After that, drawer faces, pulls, stops and some final sanding/waxing.

When done, it will (hopefully) look something like this










The bench and drawers are actually much bigger than you would expect from the drawing, so this is costing me a fortune in lumber. Unlike that little Red guy, I need to fill my shop with really big stuff. Can't use those weenie Veritas accessories in my 2" square dog holes. I forgot to put a ruler in the picture, but you can get a feel for the size from the scale of the planes on these drawer sides:



















:>


----------



## TerryDowning

Been out on Vaca and getting caught up. Puget Sound was awesome!!

Ian congrats on the awesome bench and happy belated B'Day. That QR Vice is great too.

Colonel More Clamps (You can never have too many), More pressure, no sweat. As Terry R has so aptly stated It's a workbench! Love the discussion regarding gluing up stock, very educational.

That joinery bench is gonna be sweet Don

Damn August!!

merril nice plans.

Progress update:

Dog holes drilled. I did burn some electrons and used a forstner bit for most of the work, Finished up with a Brace and bit as the forstner bit was not long enough to get through the bench top.

First the holes in the wagon 2" on center









Then along the length of the top. 3" on center, then 6" on center.









Then I chamfered the tops of the holes with a large counter sink.









I also got the wedge powered wagon vices done so now I can face plane with confidence on my bench.

For details on how this works, please refer to the excellent write up By Shipwright in his V-8 powered bench blog #2 describes the construction of the wagon vice . I can take absolutely no credit for the design on this. It does work great though

Here you can see the wedge. To the left of the wedge is a set of spacers to take up the slack and apply pressure to the wagon. To the right of the wedge is the Load bearing block that absorbs and distributes the force applied by driving in the wedge. A few mallet blows is all it takes. The wedge is long enough to be tapped loose from underneath the bench.









Wedge seated and holding one of my few remaining pieces of plum.









Cleaned up and ready to start working the chop.









All that remains is the leg vise and a bondo pose.

Ad Hoc Poll
How thick should the chop be?


----------



## jmartel

My leg vise is 2 pieces of 6/4 oak laminated together. If I was doing it again I might spring for double 8/4, but the 6/4 is working fine.


----------



## merrill77

My leg vice is 3 pieces of 3/4 oak laminated for a total of 2 1/4". I can't imaging ever needing something stronger.


----------



## August

Hey TerryR
This is the brass top for the leg vise so I can incorporate a dog of some sort,.
Hey Martel I decided to use the extrusion so I don't have to waste wood since I'm doing that shaft guide.


----------



## palaswood

Oooooh thats some sexy brass man


----------



## August

Thanks joseph
I know people are annoyed already with my metal post,
But 2 more weeks my garage will be done.


----------



## Mosquito

it just says "work bench smack down" doesn't say "wood bench smack down" lol

If I had the capabilities, I would certainly be doing a lot more metal work integration into my stuff


----------



## JayT

> I know people are annoyed already with my metal post,


Says who? Speaking for me personally. Annoyed, no. Jealous, yes.

(I have zero metal working skills)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

August…..now THAT's a jointer.


----------



## Buckethead

Agree with JT. August's is a workbench fave round these parts.


----------



## JADobson

You call that a jointer? Now this is a jointer:










And it's for sale:
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rds/tls/4551463128.html


----------



## JADobson

Also if anyone is from the lower mainland / Washington area and wants to build a bench from European Beech don't miss this:
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rds/mat/4535117839.html

Can't beat $2 bf.


----------



## August

hey moss thanks man, 
2 weeks we will see if i know how to do woodwork LOL
JayT thanks man well i have negative zero experiences with wood

thanks big red i love old machines 
here take a look at my old drill press









well i have 3 tools i brought home last night tonight table saw and bandsaw.


















and here is a pic of the brass plate for the leg vise. so i can use the benchdogs


----------



## skipmathews

I have a question about using a leg vise. 
I am planning to make a sliding dead-man to support one end of a board while jointing the edge.
My question is about the bracket, or whatever it is called, that I usually see to the left of the leg vise.
I am assuming this is a stop to keep boards from slipping in the leg vise?
I can't find any info on how to make it. 
I get the general idea by looking at pictures but have found nothing on using it or fundamental design details.
Can someone help with this? Or does the picture below say it all… and I should make one just like it?

Here is a picture of the bracket I am talking about…
Thank you!


----------



## DaddyZ

Very Nice August !!!


----------



## DaddyZ

Skip ^ Guy Named Bandit around here had one he made installed on his bench in his dungeon


----------



## ColonelTravis

August you will be more than capable handling wood, my friend. Where'd you get the brass plate?


----------



## shampeon

Skip: that's a crochet. There's a good thread that goes over the pros and cons started by Brandon here:
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/33575

Long story short, though, a crochet is not really necessary if you've already got a leg vise. The boards won't slip in the leg vise. If you had only a deadman, you could put the boards into the crochet and plane it from right to left, and the crochet keeps the board stable by wedging the end of it.

From what I've seen, a lot of people like the idea of a crochet more than it's actual use.


----------



## August

thanks daddyz
hey colonel 
its a long story but since my daytime job is doing repossesion i was part of a big auction where i bought my lathe and bridgeport and i also bought lots of metal and brass, depending on how big you need i can give you some free of charge, just pm me
what i have is 1'thick by 4 wide and i also have some 1-1/2 thick same width anyway thanks 
for kind words.


----------



## August

hey all who ever is online need a advice im about to brill a hole for my brass for dog hole what size if standard? for the round ones? thanks in advcance


----------



## shampeon

3/4" for round dogholes.


----------



## August

thanks ian ok i will drill it now thanks.


----------



## JADobson

August - 3/4" should do the trick. That will fit LV accessories.


----------



## woodcox

Looks good Terry. I like the countersink.


----------



## August

thanks james

ok here we go now i just have to makes dogs LOL


----------



## CL810

Dang, *TerryD*!! You got swag going on!!


----------



## terryR

Wow, lots of cool stuff…love that wedge powered wagon vice…
August, those slabs of brass look like chocolate to me! yummy…


----------



## August

Yes they are, TerryR 
I'm home now and I will install it, pics coming soon.


----------



## August

Here how it looks like installed 
Just need some dogs now


----------



## Buckethead

August, you are going to become a legend with this bench build. Truly a unique and original work. A masterpiece.


----------



## August

Thanks bucket.
Yeah I guess metal is what I have to stick to, looking at wood work is very scary.
Here are some pics during the machining mess


















I had about 1-1/2 of shaving after machining it I started at 1" to 3/4
And I still need to take 1/16


----------



## bandit571

If the board I am running the #31 Jointer along is long enough, I DO use the Crochet. A few taps to lodge one end into the Crochet, then a clamp on the other end, or even the leg vise. Mine is on the right end of the bench, the leg vise, that is. Two lag screws to hold the Crochet to the side of the bench.

Haven't any Deadman under the bench ( THAT didn't quite sound right?) so i just c clamp a block of scrap to the side aprons.









Or, just the leg vise, and the block of scrap to rest it on. mainly for the shorter stuff.









But it does come in handy on the longer stuff, too.


----------



## skipmathews

Thanks for the info on the crochet. I will leave it off. I like to keep it simple, sometimes less is more.
I will just focus on getting the dead-man finished.


----------



## DanKrager

August, that is already a priceless heirloom. You've made a very classy bench. NOW DO SOME WOODWORKING ON IT, DAMHKIT!
DanK


----------



## Bboyd

I'm almost finished with my first workbench; I'll post pics when complete. Just have a question on vise placement.

I've already installed a vise on the side of the bench at one end and I'm about to install a front vise with 16'' jaws on the other end of the bench. The bench top is 24 in wide and my initial thought is to flush up the front vise with the side of the bench opposite the side vise (or whatever it's called). This way, I'll have the full length of the bench to hold a board and run a plane with a fence registered along the edge of the bench top without the other vise interfering (see first image).

Most benches I see, however, have both vises aligned with one side of the bench (although most I see use a combination of a side vise and a tail vise; not a front vise). See second image. Am I overlooking anything by wanting to position my vises according to the first image? I can drill dog holes anywhere I want, really.


----------



## shampeon

If you are right-handed, the problem with the first image is that you will not be able to work on your natural side when working on the piece. The front vise in the second image typically doesn't get in the way of almost all the pieces you'd conceivable by working on. And if it does, you can reposition the piece a little further down and held down by holdfasts or clamps.


----------



## Bboyd

Good points, I think I'll go with the second image.


----------



## JayT

Bboyd, are you going to be able to work all the way around your bench or will it be up against a wall?

Ian's explanation is right on, but if you are going to have the bench in the center of a room and use all sides, you could put the tail vise on the same end and opposite side as the front vise and have your full length side free. I've seen people do this before, but have no actual experience with how well it works.


----------



## terryR

Hey August, what do ya have planned for all those poor brass filings?


----------



## August

Hi I don't know but I. Threw them away at first I was going to save. And use as a handplane packing LOL.
I'm all my time machining this was the first that I had to machine 1-1/2 of brass


----------



## jmartel

August, you should melt the shavings down to put into some mallets. Help get some heft to them while keeping them a reasonable size.


----------



## August

thanks jeff
funny things i dont know if i can handle anymore hobby 
between wood and metal and macro photogrphy and my kitchen and guns, no more room LOL

ok im on bench dog making

ill be posting a protoype any input?


----------



## terryR

Pretty sweet, August. Me jealous.

I was thinking how cool it might be to fill a plastic bottle with brass fillings, then very carefully so as to avoid air bubbles, add epoxy resin. Allow to dry and turn baby turn!


----------



## August

Damn TerryR that would be cool ok I'll save a lot for you.

Anyway take what my young one is doing with my leg vise
http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf


----------



## TerryDowning

TerryR,

I would recommend a Urethane compound rather than epoxy (easier to work with IMO and less shrinkage.)

You could also use a Polyester Resin (Basically clear fiberglass resin, that readily takes dyes) Available at most hobby stores.

Lots of possibilities here.

There are three options to reduce air bubbles 
Cast under pressure 80-90 psi should do the trick (This squeezes out air pockets and crushes the bubbles)
Cast under vacuum (This sucks the air bubbles out of the casting)
put the mold on a vibrating table (scroll saw, sander, etc) this loosens the air bubbles and allows them to come to the top. You may still have to pop some with a tooth pick or pin as the mixture starts to thicken/cure.

I have a 10 gallon pressure pot that does great on PR and Urethane. One of these days I'll get a vacuum pump and use vacuum.


----------



## terryR

August, sounds like you should send them to TerryD!  Heck, I can't turn brass here…

Terry, thanks for the tips. Been drooling over a small vaccuum rig…Will start sending my spalted woods to you! LOL!


----------



## john2005

Love your vision Terry!

Brass shavings are looking killer August!


----------



## August

Thanks john

Ok sorry stupid moment for a wanna be wood worker here please be nice,
But I've searching what terry wants to do any help?
What is that for?
I have lots if shaving I can share and also different style of shavings?


----------



## RPhillips

Damn guys looking good. Keep it up!


----------



## Iguana

No mystery there, August. For someone who turns wood objects on a lathe, a brass-impregnated resin blank would be a very cool thing with which to try to make something different. Pens, candlestick holders, bowls - whatever you can imagine depending on the size of the blank.


----------



## terryR

August, my friend, I wish I could lock you in MY shop for a single day…chain your left leg to my lil wood lathe, and in 15 minutes you'd amaze yourself with the hidden skills within yourself! It's very similar to what you already do…with less measuring.

I've been studying a lot on uTube, watching guys embed anything from walnut slices to coffee beans in acrylic or epoxy resin, inside a simple pvc mold. Then turn amazing items from the home made cylinders…lamp bases, peppermills, tool handles, plus what GS mentioned.

Would love to see some walnut plane shavings and brass shavings mixed in a clear medium! Pencil holders, plane knobs, knife handles, oh you got me started again…

Sorry for hijaking the bench thread…


----------



## August

Duhhhhh
Ok I see now I did not what your trying to do
Ok now I get ok from this point on I'll save the super fine shavings.
After looking at google images they do look cool.
Someday I'll learn wood working well July 16 is the first day LOL.
My so called bench will be finish including drawers.


----------



## DanKrager

Good to see great and respectful interaction, guys. Keep up the good work! 
Jul 16 first day of woodworking for August! Yeah! After seeing what you've done with metal, can't wait to see what you'll do with wood! 
DanK


----------



## August

Thanks Dan we will see


----------



## Pezking7p

August, looking awesome!

I got my stretchers milled and tenons cut today. Mortises laid out and one of them cut and fit. 7 more to go + deadman and leg vise. I can see the light.


----------



## Mosquito

Workbench upgrade. Was meaning to do it a while ago, just never did.

I marked about 1/8" inside the travel off my wagon vise for both all the way open and all the way closed









Sawed out, chiseled out, and used the router plane to clean it up, then cut a strip of 1/8" maple to fit and glued it in









Then planed it flush all around.









I now have a quick easy reference for which bench dog I need to raise when using the wagon vise.

Next upgrade, a benchtop moxon I think


----------



## August

Hey building one or buying one? On the moxon?


----------



## Mosquito

Gonna be building. I wouldn't mind being able to spring for a Bench Crafted, but that's outside of the budget for now. Had thought about getting a moxon vise hardware set from Bench Crafted, but that's still quite spendy.

I've got a 1-1/2" wood threading and tap set that I used for my wagon vise and leg vise screws, and still have my old leg vise screw. I might see if I can re-purpose that and maybe make a new screw out of some left over maple dowel I have. Will have to see where I go with it I guess


----------



## August

Ok just saying I have a acme tap same thread pattern as BC I can thread any handle you want aslong not stainless


----------



## Pezking7p

Drill battery died with one more stretcher mortise left. I never thought I'd say this, but I am tired of making giant sized joinery. Ready for bench joinery to be done.

One thing is for sure, though, after all these huge mortise/tenons, regular furniture sized stuff is going to seem easy.


----------



## jmartel

That's why you gotta get a corded drill. Never have to worry about batteries dying. And it's a lot more powerful too.


----------



## Airframer

Or just get one of these and never worry about it ever..


----------



## Buckethead

I know how you're feeling, Dan. It can be enough to make you swear off hand tools. It takes time and technique. (My two weaknesses). ;-)


----------



## Pezking7p

!!!!!










The best:









The worst (and only on that needs tweaking):









Now how to drill through 5" legs?

Edit: apparently I need a brace.


----------



## Buckethead

Looking fantastic dan! That appears to be some sort of woodworking bench like apparatus.

Really taking form now.

Are you going to pin the tenons?


----------



## Pezking7p

Yah I'm going to pin them. Need epoxy and dowel material. And a leg vise screw. And a long drill bit. I should get on that.


----------



## CL810

Looking good Dan! What's the epoxy for?


----------



## Pezking7p

Epoxy is so I can have plenty on time to fit and pin everything. Something like 30 minutes of open time. I need all the help I can get.


----------



## terryR

Lookin great, Dan! I hope my next legs come out that nice! 

Here's my long reach boring friend…










I didn't have a brace or auger bits when I built my bench…just gotts keep a que of batteries en charge…


----------



## August

Damn terry that thing can reach and touch


----------



## Mosquito

I used a spade bit for drilling my dog holes because it had a longer reach than a forstner (with out buying an extension)



> Ok just saying I have a acme tap same thread pattern as BC I can thread any handle you want aslong not stainless
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Hmmm, I might have to look into that. What size/thread, what size of a hub would it need, and does anyone know where to find cheap (but still decent quality) hand-wheels?

The ones that Red had linked to before were $20/each, but it was $30 shipping, and I'd have to ship it twice, plus the Acme Screws and nuts I feel like I'd be lookin' at close to $100 by the time I had everything, let alone shipping it out and back. At $163 (from Highland Woodworking), I almost feel like that'd be worth it at that point.


----------



## terryR

Mos, how about a wooden wheel with nut countersunk in the back?


----------



## Mosquito

I had thought about that, but it wouldn't have the same sort of momentum as cast iron wheels. I discounted that idea because of it since I've got a wood tap and thread kit for 1-1/2" wooden screws that I would use instead (and what I'm currently planning on doing). Only difficulty is that without a lathe I have to make 2-part screws. I can't turn a larger piece down to have the hub and screw threads all one piece. And I apparently need to work on my square-tapping skills… made two last night, neither are square… :-/


----------



## August

Hey moss sorry for late reply enjoying house home alone LOL

Ok my tap is 3/4-6


----------



## August

I can make you brass nuts LOL


----------



## August

> I had thought about that, but it wouldn t have the same sort of momentum as cast iron wheels. I discounted that idea because of it since I ve got a wood tap and thread kit for 1-1/2" wooden screws that I would use instead (and what I m currently planning on doing). Only difficulty is that without a lathe I have to make 2-part screws. I can t turn a larger piece down to have the hub and screw threads all one piece. And I apparently need to work on my square-tapping skills… made two last night, neither are square… :-/
> 
> - Mosquito


Shars.com or grizzly has good selection


----------



## terryR

If you gotta buy wheels…










...here's the 1.6" diameter hub on the rear of a set I just made for Lateralus (is he on this thread?). Overall is 5". the wood should be easy to guess! 

I can turn 'em any diameter up to about 8"...

Edit…lil brass medallion on the front!


----------



## terryR

August, can you make those nuts out of a cheaper metal? They could easily be counter sunk in my wheel and captured with a set screw…

...just an idea growing…


----------



## Mosquito

Too many options! lol Looking into the cast iron handwheels a bit more now… Grizley has 4" cast iron handwheels for roughly $26 shipped… found a place for $54 can have 3' 3/4"x6 Acme and 4 Acme hex nuts shipped… hmmm, still getting up 'round $90-$100 after shipping costs, 2/3 the price of Bench Crafted. Decisions Decisions…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Mos, August and I were kicking around options with that moxon setup…..and then we both got really busy and haven't followed up on it. The Grizzly wheels are probably the only way it would be worth it. To my mind, it kinda shows that the BC moxon kit isn't terribly priced for what you get.

Airframer used acme nuts in wood wheels for his moxon. An economic way to go. I would miss the heft of a cast iron wheel though.


----------



## Airframer

Correction.. that is an acme tapped wooden wheel no nuts(giggity) involved ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

yeah, right now the two things I'm considering are cast iron hand wheels or wooden screws that I have. I do agree, though, the bench crafted option doesn't seem so bad


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Correction.. that is an acme tapped wooden wheel no nuts(giggity) involved ;-)
> 
> - Airframer


huh…..for some reason I though AF glued nuts in those wheels. Shows ya what I know.


----------



## Airframer

Homemade Tap










Homemade Moxon wheel.. no nuts lol..










And it spins too!


----------



## ToddJB

AF, did you just cut off a grip of the screw and file it down, you clever minx?


----------



## Airframer

Yeppers! I semi documented it in this blog entry..

http://lumberjocks.com/Airframer/blog/34701


----------



## TheJBitt

I've stalked this forum forever without actually doing anything… gathering ideas, gathering skills/tools/materials, trying to prep century old barnwood for my bench build, trying to just get some time out in my shop, etc.

I'm finally ready to get down to work, and I want to finalize my design tonight. What are the most common methods for joining the top to the base? I like the idea of having a removable top (on the bench). If I chop mortises into the top and just let gravity hold it in place, is that going to be sufficiently stable? And will it actually be feasible to remove at a future date?


----------



## Pezking7p

Eric I think I just got a halfy from your tap.

I wish I had infinite time/money to make things. I've had to settle for the lee valley vise screw for my leg vise. I think they are ugly but it's cheap and easy.

Also considering a chain guide on the leg vise. Anyone have experience in these? I looked at someone's retrofit but can't remember who.


----------



## Pezking7p

Jon,

There are a zillion ways to attach the top. Paul sellers made a knockdown top with a wedge system. His bench is made step by step in YouTube. A roubo top can be attached with blind mortises, and draw bored without glue. You can drill out the dowels later to remove the top.

I wouldn't recommend attaching the top without something mechanical like a wedge or a dowel. Too much wobble.


----------



## Mosquito

In a moment of weakness… I just went ahead and did the wooden screw moxon, and finished it up tonight.


----------



## Pezking7p

Why weakness? Looks badass.

I'm in msp tomorrow and Wednesday. Feel like I should harass you in to something. Like a mountain lion hunt.


----------



## TheJBitt

Thanks Dan. That's what I figured.

If it were permanently fixed, would glue be sufficient as mechanical fixation?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dan, Lysdexic did the chain on leg vise thing (boatman's product) and blogged it.


----------



## Mosquito

weakness 'cause I was going back and forth and very nearly bought the stuff for acme screws and cast iron hand wheels lol. It's large enough I could use it like this for a while, and if I don't like it, chop 3" off each end and make it 18" between acme screws. Currently it's 21" between the two screws (inside to inside), and I'm not sure I'd even use that much very often

MSP is about 10-45 minutes from where I live currently (depending on time of day and weather lol). How long you in for, and what time?


----------



## Pezking7p

Jon, glue is stronger than wood, so, definitely a good fastener!

Smitty, super thanks.

Mos, I'm actually staying in Hudson,WI. I'm in tomorrow night around 7:30 and leaving Thursday morning early. I'm not sure if I'll have free time or not. My work can be brutal. Mortise chopping contest? Lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I like it, Mos!


----------



## August

> August, can you make those nuts out of a cheaper metal? They could easily be counter sunk in my wheel and captured with a set screw…
> 
> ...just an idea growing…
> 
> - terryR


Hey TerryR 
I made a public announcement 
If your in my freinds list then the price is free,
I'm not asking for money 
Brass and bronze is better

Because it's easier on the tool cutter and looks better 
I can pretty much tread anything exetp stainless steel because my tool is not design to cut stainles
Anyway for you TerryR 
I'll do anything LOL


----------



## August

> Ya Mos, August and I were kicking around options with that moxon setup…..and then we both got really busy and haven t followed up on it. The Grizzly wheels are probably the only way it would be worth it. To my mind, it kinda shows that the BC moxon kit isn t terribly priced for what you get.
> 
> Airframer used acme nuts in wood wheels for his moxon. An economic way to go. I would miss the heft of a cast iron wheel though.
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


That's right 
It was actually big red ideas 
If your not on my freinds list a pack of cig or a cheap wishkey will do for payment LOL
But red and I chatted a few pm about this 
I'm around if bee guys


----------



## CL810

Looks great Mos.


----------



## Mosquito

Hudson is the WRONG direction lol

Thanks Guys. Now all I've got to do is get a piece of leather large enough for the chop (is it still called a chop on a twin screw vise?)


----------



## terryR

Looks good, Mos! Better than my home boy Moxon with Borg threaded rods.

August, thanks for the offer, again! LOL. We WILL build something together one of these days! Something amazing!


----------



## RPhillips

Mos, nice job on the moxon!

Well, just before I headed back to Va for vacation I finally decided to try to cut down those 8" x 8"x 8' oak timbers and get my bench going. I rigged up an out feed table of sorts for my band saw and had my wife give me a hand getting everything set up. It was a total failure. I could not cut those beasts on my band saw. No matter what I did, the saw would just bog down. I even tried ripping them down each side with my trusty old circular saw, but that was of no help either, band saw still bogged down. Thought about trying to hand saw these, but after the last piece I did like that, I decided to pass. Don't think they make enough Knob Creek to finish those things.

So I guess its back to the drawing board, at least for the bench top. At least I have the legs pretty much ready to go.


----------



## chrisstef

Rob - could you rent a beam saw at the local HD? I think that they will cut 6" deep.


----------



## terryR

Wow, Rob, are you anywhere near me in N.Alabama? Would love to help!

Maybe a cabinet shop in town can rip them for ya? or a local sawmill?

Sure hate to see that much wood just sit and stare at you!


----------



## RPhillips

I'm on the west side of Indianapolis, so Road Trip! lol

The wood is not really all that great (weathering, checking, knots, etc.), so i'm not sure it's going to worth investing much more into it. I found these boards at work and just though, "Why not?".


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Get them to So. Il and my buddy (with bandsaw mill) can cut them. It'd kill a day, over and back, but it's something to consider. There are worse ways to spend a day. Dan K and me are along the route, maybe a couple pit stops?


----------



## bandit571

While watching a few of those GE Hong videos, I noticed a metal type of plane stop.

Maybe 4" wide, about 5 or 6 bolts to hold it in place . Has a couple 90 degree bends to it. Bigger flat area has the holes for the mounting hardware, the smaller is like the the edge of a big rip saw! Saw teeth!

Wondering IF I could make use of an old saw blade. Make the two bends, so that the saw teeth are about 1/4" off the "deck" , maybe 3" wide at the tooth line. His was a bit like a triangle. The bolt area was near the pointy point of the triangle.

Of course, GE Hong's bench was just an old plywooded top. Had a shallow tool well at the back then a bench of drawer stowage above that. The only "vise" he used AT the bench, was a clamp on metal vise that had a swivel base, and changable jaws, maybe 4" wide jaws. Looked like he had a lot of storage shelves and such under the bench. Height was so he could also sit on a stool to do a little bit of work with the vise.

When there is a wall FULL of chisels just hanging around, half being pigstickers, there is some handwork going on. The fellow also had over a dozen frame saws, just hanging on pegs on the wall.

Might have to find a link to this guy's stuff. I do have one link, but it is in the Traditional Chinese Edge Plane project I posted.

So, can I cut a chunk from an old rusty saw plate, do a couple 90 degree bends, drill a few lag bolt holes through it, and make a plane stop? The way my bench is, it might just work









Current plane stop in use. I have a LOT of old Oak bed frame pieces to mill down…..


----------



## donwilwol

Rob, if you make a cut with the circular saw on both sides you should only have about 2" left. I think that would be doable by hand, especially if you can get your hands on a frame saw.

the two halves can then be done with 2 cuts with a skill saw.


----------



## RPhillips

the problem appears to be mostly dealing with the heft of the lumber. I can't just simply keep a little pressure on them and let the saw do the work. Every time I try to get them going, the saw would bind. What little I was able to cut (about 3") veered off course and was not straight at all and weight and length of them make it beyond difficult to manage.

I cut my bench legs on that same band saw and they were about 6" thick, but the boards were only 48" and I could "handle" them much better. I think those Oak timbers weight in around ~160 lbs, making it very difficult to finesse them through my saw.

One other note, since these were used for rigging at my work, I don't trust that there is not any metal embedded in them and don't want to take the chance and screw up someone else's equipment.


----------



## August

Not really related to workbench but my shop is set up now.


----------



## Buckethead

Rob, another consideration would be ripping top and bottom, which on an 8×8 I'm guessing leaves about 2-1/2" or a shade more, then finishing with a sawzall, but using a carbide tipped blade. There would a bit of drift, to be sure, and it would be slow going, but if you got through that, and then went to the thickness planer, you'd be dealing with much more manageable stock. You could even mill it down further, without the need to resort to the sawzall. Two passes with the circular saw would do it.

Anywho, I am thinking that checked, weathered oak would make for a seriously awesome and unique bench.

Mos, you've made a beautiful moxon. I especially like that you utilized what you had on hand. IMO, true to the spirit of woodworking.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

August- Sweet setup. What's the story with the tablesaw?


----------



## lateralus819

Yes Terry i am on this thread now! I have an almost complete stand alone moxon bench. It's been a pain in the ass the whole step. All mortise and tenon. I wish i could go back and change the way i mounted the moxon itself. I made the bench seperate, and made an L shape for the back chop/table surface then glued it on. I tried many ways of affixing it, my main concern was letting it move, for now I glued the front. Might pop a screw on each side or something to hold it.



















The sides overhanging are cut a little bit short, and there will be a tool well in the back. It's glueing up right now, made from clear pine.

Might do some holes for hold fasts and dogs. We will see! It's going to be a stout bench. 3.5 inch fir for the base, plus some cherry. All Quartersawn sapele top/sides. Plus the tool well.

Going to figure out some shaping for the sides, and front chop not sure on what yet though.

Can't wait to touch those beautiful wheels Terry, And no i didn't forget about you!!


----------



## ToddJB

Looks great August. I also would like to know more about the table saw


----------



## byerbyer

Looking good August


----------



## August

Thanks big red
Well table saw is a pain for me if you guys look at my website 
My saw went to the knife so many time before being use.
I think this is the last time there will be 9 drawers and a router in the far right.

Thanks Tod,
There will be video on it.
Thanks Jason .


----------



## CL810

August it's nice to see your shop coming together.

Lat, truckload of envy for your free standing Moxon headed your way. Great idea.


----------



## August

Thanks CL 
It's a long time coming

Yeah amen on free standing moxon nice Lat

Ok any advice on how long should be the miter fence be?


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos, you ve made a beautiful moxon. I especially like that you utilized what you had on hand. IMO, true to the spirit of woodworking.
> - Buckethead


Thanks Bucket. I might be making some new wooden screws and handles down the road. The hex heads I made for these ended up not getting tapped straight, and it kinda bugs me. I used a 2" hole drilled through a scrap to tap the stationary rear board, so those are nice and square to the face, so at least that part's good to go lol


----------



## RPhillips

Bucket, I thought about the SawZall method, but didn't have a proper blade, so just dismissed it from my brain. I'm going to give that a try with a good blade.

I too think a bench with all the flaws of nature would be pretty amazing.

August, that is one nice shop. Would love to have that myself.


----------



## john2005

> I too think a bench with all the flaws of nature would be pretty amazing.
> 
> - RPhillips


I agree. I would encourage you to keep on till you find a way. I look forward to what you come up with. I love a bench with character!


----------



## chrisstef

Rob - Milwaukee makes a blade that they call The Ax. They're like $5 a pop but worth every nickel. Theyre thicker than the McRippers and other cheapers blades so they don't kink and quit on ya. Pretty sure you can get them in 12"ers too. They wont fish tail on ya.


----------



## palaswood

Rob did you post pics of these mammoth 8×8 beams that are quickly becoming the stuff of legend?


----------



## ToddJB

Joseph, here


----------



## RPhillips

lol I forgot about my blog… time to update it I suppose.

Thanks for the encouraging words guys!


----------



## ToddJB

I didn't forget. Your manly feat has been burned into my memory for life.


----------



## RPhillips

Going to give these a try… not sure on the pruner, but the tpi might be better suited.


----------



## chrisstef

The pruners work Rob. Ive used them a lot when weve had to cut through roofing shingles and plywood. Theyre pretty aggressive. They dull a bit quicker from the hook angle than the Ax ones though. If you ever gotta cut metal go for the Torch joints, ive cut angle iron with those puppies.


----------



## Buckethead

Freud (Diablo) also makes a carbide tipped sawzall blade. I've tried them but didn't notice a marked improvement over the Axe blades in terms of rapid cutting.

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-DS0906CW-Diablo-Carbide-Tipped-Reciprocating/dp/B00BIBRHGK/ref=sr_1_6?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1405628162&sr=1-6&keywords=carbide+sawzall+blades

I think a 9" or 12" Axe blade would be the right call. If you can afford it, buy a couple. The carbide tipped are pricey. Over $10 each for the longer ones. They are thicker than the cheaper blades, but not as hefty as the Axe blades.


----------



## SASmith

Another fan of the ax blades here.
When you wear them out they make good full-tang marking knives.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm loving the "can do" that's coming from this thread now! Go, Rob, Go!!


----------



## john2005

Now we're gettin somewhere!


----------



## Pezking7p

Any particular rhyme or reason to leg vise shape/size? Anyone know of a shape that really gets the girls' attention?


----------



## widdle

When a sawzall becomes the best option..Re think your options..


----------



## lateralus819

Terry, i got the wheels today. Superb job buddy! They will sure set the bench off.

I know a lot of people do a portable moxon, but for me this will be a joinery/planing bench. My bench i normally use is quite big, but has no easy way of fastening boards for jointing and such. I have to clamp them to the edge with regular clamps and it's a pain, i can already tell this will help immensely.


----------



## ToddJB

Beautiful job, Terry.


----------



## Buckethead

Indeed. Fantastic. I saw you post a pic earlier, Terry, but it failed to grasp what they were. Brilliant idea, beautiful grain, and superlative execution.


----------



## terryR

Awesome, Lat…glad you like them!
Cannot wait to see the finished vice…

All this talk of skill saws and sawzalls…Is the grain in the huge timbers straight enough to just split it with an axe, sledgehammer, and wedges? Then clean up with a broad axe or scrub plane?

Where's Roy Underhill when we need him!


----------



## lateralus819

Funny enough, i sent Terry a pm asking if he could do it. He almost said no, that his skills werent up to the task.

So i sent him a quick sketchup of what i was thinking, few days later, BAM! I took them out of the box and his note said there was no finish! I couldn't belive how shiny it was. I put a little bit of my wax on em to make em pop.


----------



## terryR

Thanks for the kind words, guys!

I'm experienced now…so can turn more if needed.


----------



## donwilwol

I really like wenge. I need to get some 1" and do a couple planes. I've got 2" but I don't want to rip it. to hard to find thick.


----------



## Boatman53

Don, I think I've got some wenge and I'm not too fond of it I'll look around tomorrow and see what I can find.

Good work guys.

There was a question a while back about the chain on the leg vise and did it work well. Anybody care to comment, current users?

Jim


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Thanks for the kind words, guys!
> 
> I m experienced now…so can turn more if needed.
> 
> - terryR


Ok nuff of you getting discouraged because I'm a more experienced joiner as you did earlier;-) Your a very talented woodworker Terry.

Besides, comparing ourselves to others is a rotten trap anyway…


----------



## CL810

Great work Terry! Awesomeness.


----------



## August

Hey terry where are my wheels


> ?


Bud


----------



## ColonelTravis

Lat, that is a great little bench right there. Stunning wheels from Terry, lucky you.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, again, guys!

August, I turned your wheels from clear acrylic, with diamonds inlaid, and mailed them last week…you don't have 'em yet? LOL!

Red, I agree100%. Was just joking last week. I read a lot, and once read a phrase that has stuck in my head, "Everyone knows more than you do about something." Meaning to me, I can learn something from everyone, but I can also teach something to everyone. No matter how small…

Hate to admit that I turned that wenge from 3" thick stock, but it was for a buddy! Next time, I'll vote for a laminated wheel with beech for a hub in the rear, and 1" thick face of exotic wood.

Edit:my secret for making unfinished wood so shiny…sandpaper! start with 80 grit, work up to 1500, and don't leave any marks behind…


----------



## widdle

Great little
Moxon bench and those wheels are super clean. Beachin.


----------



## palaswood

TerryR +1 on that - I've been shinin stuff up to 1500 for awhile now. If you go past that to 2000 you get a mirror finish that I feel ruins it, so I stop at 1500. Sure a mirror finish has a time and place, but I don't like all the glare i get.

I've been dripping parraffin candle wax on the wood and then melting it in with the candle flame, to buff with a terry rag. Anyone else care to share their technique for finishing without a 'finish'

Wood Gloat: Just scored some hardwood boards from a local factory renovation, from when they brought in their heavy pastry ovens i'd assume. I had a chance to speak with the contractor a week ago when I came away with some 12 ft x 10in x 3/4 poplar boards then. I showed him my instagram pics on my phone, and he set these aside for me yesterday. The boards are 4/4 - 6/4×8ft from 6in up to 10in widths. Each one has like 8 nails in it. Some have live edges and some end checking. I owe them at least a couple dozen donuts…










Since the pine I glued up has proven to be far too soft for my liking im going to start over, and im thinking of using the oak and (i think) maple here. I welcome ideas on how to turn these into a proper workbench. I dont have a power planer, so i'll have to do it by hand (no 6 is the biggest i got though), but I have a tabletop 6" jointer so I can at least joint the edges. I'm pretty stoked.

Maybe I can still use the pine top as a core… hmmm


----------



## richardwootton

I had a situation very similar to yours palas. I glued up a pine top and flattened it then realized it was just too soft for my liking. The I found a score on a bunch of Red Oak and went back to the drawing board. And sharpened all of my planes, a lot! I've finished thickness dimensioning by hand and now it's on to cross cutting to rough length, then ripping down to thickness. Must. Build. Sawbench.


----------



## widdle

I got 8 ' jointer you could run it over, if you wanted to run it up to venice..


----------



## TerryDowning

Nice wood Joseph

Nice wheels terry.

Speakin' of wheels turned a couple for my leg vise.










The center is a walnut dowel I will use a bushing

This will be the bottom of the chop.









Progress is slow on the leg vise.


----------



## Airframer

I see where you are going with those but ….. where is the parallel guide attached now?


----------



## TerryDowning

It's not yet. All in progress.

VERRRYYY SLLOOOWWW but progress none the less.

Hey I was in your area over the 4th. It was awesome!!

Pic from the beach house I stayed at overlooking Kicket bay








Kicket island to the right
Skaget in the center
Whidbey on the left and in the back.

What a great place to stay, can't wait to go back.


----------



## Airframer

I live on Whidbey! When were you here?

*EDIT

I see it was over the 4th.. I was off for 3 days that weekend you should have hit me up bro!


----------



## TerryDowning

July 3 - 6

mmm 3 inch mortars


----------



## donwilwol

palas, why not rip them to the thickness of your bench (+ some fudge), plane them on the jointer, glue them up and flatten the top.

touch up by hand as needed.


----------



## TerryDowning

> I was off for 3 days that weekend you should have hit me up bro!
> 
> - Airframer


Alas, I was without any form of transport and spent of my days happily buzzed. Gotta love Vaca!!


----------



## palaswood

great idea don!


----------



## lateralus819

I sent my wife to grab lumber for me today (which she usually happily obliges  Grabbed some 8/4 to finish my tool well, and some 4/4 for the back cap. Thats all that is left as far as the "build" is concerned. My machinist at work is going to turn the nuts round, so i can just drill a hole and epoxy them in, instead of worrying about ruining terry' beautiful wheels!

I may do some inlay on it i don't know. I'm going overboard, but i don't get to build a lot of "bigger" stuff as you all know wood can be expensive. I like to practice on any piece i do with different embelishments and ornaments etc. Going to try a lambs tongue/chamfer on the front chop like chris swarz'.

She says "The man picked the 8/4, I picked the 4/4, LOOK AT IT! It's so pretty!"

She did do well, for a piece that was in the "clear maple" section, it's pretty stunning.

I almost always pilfer that rack, as it's about 1/4 the cost of "figured maple" which sometimes is LESS figured then the stuff in the clear maple rack. Mwuahaha.


----------



## Buckethead

Wife that brings home figured maple from the clear stack = keeper.


----------



## CL810

> palas, why not rip them to the thickness of your bench (+ some fudge), plane them on the jointer, glue them up and flatten the top.
> 
> touch up by hand as needed.
> 
> - Don W


+1

*I sent my wife to grab lumber for me today

Well ya, who's wife doesn't pick out their hardwoods???*


----------



## john2005

> There was a question a while back about the chain on the leg vise and did it work well. Anybody care to comment, current users?
> 
> Jim
> 
> - Boatman53


It works brilliantly Jim. You did a good thing there. It was super easy to set up, easy to adjust and once I got it where I wanted it, I haven't touched it since.

For those of you still debating, I would strongly encourage you to look at the chain vise.

Also, everybody, without fail, who sees my bench comments on it.

Terry those wheels are sweet! You made Lat a lucky man…that may not have come out right.


----------



## August

We'll work bench is getting some work out LOL


----------



## DanKrager

Nice shop, August! Thought about looking you up this week, but was having too much family fun, which is rare for me living so far away.
LOL! ...a four digit saw gets covered with stuff just like the others!
DanK


----------



## RPhillips

OK, finally got one of my 8×8's cut in two. One down, One to go!



















-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

Ok, how I actually got this beast cut…  I tried, but the Hand Saw just wasn't cutting it. After the blisters broke out, so did the SawZall.  "The Ax" blades worked like a champ. Thanks for the advice and encouragement guys!


----------



## Buckethead

*WOOT!*

Look at those beautiful timbers. Rob, you are going to relish this build. Much respect!

Edit: The cuts turned out better than I imagined. There will be some planing to do, but waste looks like it should be minimized. Again… Fantastic execution.


----------



## RPhillips

Thanks…


----------



## Tugboater78

Finally caught up on this thread.. its been a while since ive joined in and since ive done anything for my workbench. Board I have hand planed down by hand have been stickered in my ahop for , a year? ( have to check my blog) want to pull them out and glue together but blew my back out couple days before memorial day. Looking like surgery. I have some 6×6 oak beams I was thjnking of using but have same problem as rphillips, glad I caught up cause now I know how I can rip them.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Excellent Rob. Atta boy.


----------



## Boatman53

Thanks John for your input on the chain. 
On another note I just bought 6 Stanley 203, I don't need 6 but it was take all or none. I'll be selling 4 of them most likely. They came with some other things but I think I need to get around $40 apiece for them. If anyone is interested send me PM. They will arrive on Monday.
Jim


----------



## richardwootton

Hey Jim, I'll take at least one off of you. I'll pm you tomorrow when I'm not on a date!


----------



## ToddJB

^ glad you got them priorities straight.

Rob. Looks great!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice rip job, Rob!

Justin, welcome back, good to see you. Sorry to hear about the back issues, that sucks.


----------



## Pezking7p

August, that is a really cool use of your dual leg vise setup.

Rob, nice work dude. You're a better man than I. I had some really old oak boards I wanted to use on my bench but I gave up when I realized that they were as hard as a rock!

Going to try to get my bench glued up today. I think before I start gluing I'm going to need to sacrifice a small animal and pray for a few hours. Feels like there is a lot of opportunity to screw up while driving 16 pins.


----------



## Pezking7p




----------



## theoldfart

Mighty fine looking, Dan


----------



## Buckethead

Fine looking chop, Dan! How did you make the angled rips? Curious minds want to know.


----------



## shampeon

+1 on the chop, Dan. Looks great.

Rob: just gripping and ripping.


----------



## Pezking7p

Almost ready for glue up boys. Just need to cut/taper dowels. I'm planning to cut the mortise in the chop for the parallel guide after glue up….mortise in the leg is already cut. Anyone see a problem with that?

Bucket, for the angled rips I just drew a line and cut close with a circular saw. Then after I laminated the two parts of the chop together, I used the power jointer to get to my line and hand planes to make both sides perfectly equal. I must say that the power jointer really made this process a snap.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pez- I did all my leg vise installation after the bench was glued. It was a little awkward….but doable.


----------



## Buckethead

Nice thinking, Dan. The transition is so crisp and clean that it made me wonder how it was done.


----------



## RPhillips

How should I cut this? Should the cut go horizontal or vertical as the picture indicates? After I cut, they will be glued up 4 inch face to 4 inch face.


----------



## Buckethead

Like you have it now gives you two pieces with the quarter sawn faces showing. That would be my preference.

Although, (after further review) they are nearly identical based on the heart being where it is.

Therefore…. Like it is, so you don't need to flip it. ;-)


----------



## RPhillips

So cut on line #2 then?  I know that the grain pattern won't be ideal in both pieces no matter how I cut it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, cut 1 would be more stable.


----------



## shampeon

+1 to what Rojo said.

I really recommend doing all the mortise work on the leg vise before glue up/assembly. You can do it after, but it's a lot easier before.


----------



## Pezking7p

Well I read that too late. Bench is glued. Couple drawbore mishaps. Nothing that can't get fixed easily enough.


----------



## Buckethead

Bench = BAWSE


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ohhh. Looking good Pez.

And if you can get that peg cut/chopped back, that boo-boo will glue up fine.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Well I read that too late.
> - Pezking7p


Haha. Bench looks fantastic. I wouldn't fret too much.
Having trouble figuring out that bottom picture, is there a split in the wood down there?


----------



## Airframer

Yep had a blowout like that on mine.. glues right up and no one the wiser ;-)

My bench had a visitor today… He had a BLAST!


----------



## Buckethead

Dan, I can relate to deciding to mortise out the leg for the vise after glue up.

By the time I had all the parts ready for a bench, there was no stopping the glue up. Later, I did regret that. It was tough going to work the inside of the leg. I even decided against flush mountin the "nut". Mine has a square flange that would have been nicer looking recessed into the leg. There really was no clean access, and I got tired of sweating it. Minor, but I remember it when I see the flange.


----------



## Pezking7p

Coltravis: The lower pic you see I beat on with the BFH until wife screams STOP! The pin was deflected and broke out the side. Amazingly, the pin is still in tact. I offset some of my drawbore holes a little too far.

Eric, that is awesome. I hope my kids will have fun doing things with me.


----------



## Pezking7p

Bucket, everything is done on the leg. I plan to install the chop, align it right, then use the mortise in the leg to mark for the mortise in the chop. I decided to do this because I was afraid I'd get everything chopped and then it wouldn't line up after I assembled the bench. We'll see.


----------



## Buckethead

I'm feeling a bit stoopid. My concerns were the same, (alignment) but I deferred the entire process til later. Yours was a good move. Leg first, chop after.


----------



## Pezking7p

How much do you hate your flange in the back of the leg? I thought about recessing it but I didn't want to put that big of a hole in my leg. Thoughts?


----------



## donwilwol

two questions for you guys. I'm thinking of removing the twin screw vice from my bench and using it to make my moxon. Is that crazy?

And what should I do with this.


----------



## richardwootton

Don the obvious answer is to build another bench with a leg vise!


----------



## Airframer

> Don the obvious answer is to build another bench with a leg vise!
> 
> - richardwootton


This….


----------



## Buckethead

Dan, it really isn't overly noticeable. It just bugs me a, and only when I think about it. When I use the bench, lately for cleaning rust, I never think about it. Out of sight, out of mind.

A more OCD person might feel stronger.

Don… Richard nailed it.


----------



## donwilwol

I definitely don't have room for another bench. This style is like a clamp. I was thinking some kind of free standing.


----------



## lateralus819

Don I have some 3/4×6 acme thread you are welcome to! See if you can turn a handle. All you will need else is some nuts.

I think i have 14" worth or so.


----------



## Buckethead

That's a great pic, Don. Love the milk paint on that bench. I'm thinking I want to build another bench in pine, and paint it. For kicks.


----------



## Boatman53

Here is one for you Don. I posted it a while ago I think on the vise thread or here over a year ago.










They use it for carving "forcola" it is the arm on a gondola the oar is pushed against.
Jim


----------



## ColonelTravis

Dan - aha, OK I get it. Thanks.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Don- what would be the advantage of a moxon over a twin screw bench vise?


----------



## Mosquito

> Don- what would be the advantage of a moxon over a twin screw bench vise?
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Only thing I can think of, is the moxon being a benchtop vise rather than a bench vise. That is to say, about 5-6" higher up


----------



## Pezking7p

Jim that's a really cool vise. Looks like it would be great for spokeshaving things.

So many details to finish on my bench. I thought I was close to done but now I'm thinking there's another week to go. C'est la vie.


----------



## Pezking7p

A Moxon can also be positioned on your bench to hold in really cool positions. Clamp it in the leg vise, or between dogs, or vertically.


----------



## yuridichesky

> There was a question a while back about the chain on the leg vise and did it work well. Anybody care to comment, current users?
> 
> Jim
> 
> - Boatman53


Jim, the chain mechanism works superbly! Since I adjusted it about half a year ago I didn't need to touch it at all, it just works, and I use my leg vise at least 3-4 days a week. The stuff I clamp in the leg vise is ranging from 1/8" thick plywood to 6" wide boards, and it holds them equally well.


----------



## August

leg vise and moxon 
Is a beautiful clamping system to a work bench, I have no experience in wood working but for the past few days, since I started to use booth system I can't imagine how to hold your work piec 
Here is a board 48" long and I'm using the end. Part of the moxon to hold it and it holds well


----------



## john2005

Pez is a badass


----------



## August

If everything goes ok I should have drawers done tonight


----------



## Pezking7p

"No woodworking experience"-hand cuts dovetailed drawers in one day.


----------



## Buckethead

Loooooool!


----------



## bandit571

Somedays, a small bench just seems to work









No room on the main bench, nice day outside, might as well try out a $5 Mitre saw









Seems to be ok, for a saw. Hey, it is low enough, I can just sit down…....


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> "No woodworking experience"-hand cuts dovetailed drawers in one day.
> 
> - Pezking7p


 That's what I was thinking. It took years before I mustered up the courage to try handcut DTs. Atta boy August. Gitter done.

Augusto tienes juevos de latón.


----------



## richardwootton

Lol at the thinly veiled Spanish compliment! But seriously August you're tackling things that intimidate the hell out of me!


----------



## Boatman53

Well the 203's arrived today. First a shot of the whole group.










I'm keeping the two on the left and offering the remaining four for sale $40 each, shipped in the US.










These are in very nice condition and I think they saw very little use judging by the japanning. PM me if you are interested. I would consider a trade if something interesting was offered.
Jim


----------



## ToddJB

Jim, can you discuss the differences between the two types? Is the only difference the screw head?


----------



## Buckethead

Those are SWEET! Too bad I'm broke. Selling stuff on the bhey as we speak.


----------



## Boatman53

The only difference I can tell is the screw style and pad. The ones on the left have a bigger oval pad and wing nut handle. My guess is those are an older style. The castings are identical.
Jim


----------



## ColonelTravis

Man those August drawers are looooooooooooong and wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide. You could open one and take a nap in there. Really looking forward to the end of this one.


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks Jim


----------



## Mosquito

Dang Jim, that makes me want to make a deadman just so I can buy one


----------



## Boatman53

Thanks Kevin, now there are three left.
Jim


----------



## lateralus819

Nearly completion on my moxon bench. Turning out to be quite a hefty unit! I'm figuring 100-125 ish pounds, maybe more. Need a lot of "cleaning" up to do on it. Going to try and add some decoration to the ends of the chop, feet, and sides. Anyone think adding an ogee like flair on the ends of the chop will some how weaken it?


----------



## Buckethead

I'm thinking you've got heft to spare, if you're liking the idea of some embellishments.

She's a beauty, lat. not sure she needs an OG, but it does feel good to be a gangsta. Go wid it.


----------



## CL810

There's no weakening that chop when it's so strong. Get you some flair stud!


----------



## lateralus819

Thats what I figured!

I'm lovin it though. It's got immense amounts

of lateral strength, which will be great for jointing stock. I might even do some inlay banding and some other stuff.

I figure it's best to practice on my own stuff and since i don't build much do to cost, might as well go all out!

Going to add some "holders" for my saws on the side, I only have 1 dovetail and a 14" tenon saw, just used another DT for appearance. Might add some chisel holders on the other side. As well as MAYBE some drawers. We'll see.










This is bigger then it looks. It's 40" wide x 20" deep x 36" tall.

I LOVE IT!!!!! My current bench sucks, but it was free and will still serve a purpose. But having no fast and easy way to clamp a board sucks. I have always had to hold the board, fiddle with an F clamp, and then tighten it.


----------



## richardwootton

That's awesome Kevin! It always makes me feel strangely proud when an LJ friend builds something very cool like this. I would love to build a slightly longer version of this bench for inside use when the weather gets too cold for my southern a$$.


----------



## RPhillips

Nice Moxon bench!


----------



## August

> "No woodworking experience"-hand cuts dovetailed drawers in one day.
> 
> - Pezking7p


Lol 
It's what you call trying using a hybrid method 
Table saw first and then cut the rest by hand 
And also using the drill press
It's easy when you have help


----------



## August

> "No woodworking experience"-hand cuts dovetailed drawers in one day.
> 
> - Pezking7p
> 
> That s what I was thinking. It took years before I mustered up the courage to try handcut DTs. Atta boy August. Gitter done.
> 
> Augusto tienes juevos de latón.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Thanks big red I'm learning what hong YouTube and lumberjocks


----------



## August

> Man those August drawers are looooooooooooong and wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide. You could open one and take a nap in there. Really looking forward to the end of this one.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Yes sir it would be hopefully I can really finish it.
It won't be the first time I tried something and screw it up


----------



## August

Well this wood working stuff is not easy I must say no drawers yet but I will soon LOL


----------



## terryR

Lat, I love your small joinery bench…looks like a good idea! Small enough to move it around, but stout enough to really hold your workpiece. AND, please add the embellishments! 

August, what happened? Too many gaps? Buddy, I'm a newby at DT's, have only practiced 5 times, but am improving. The way I understand them fancy joints is that they must be practiced on cheap wood before the bench? Grab some cheap poplar, and try a few joints. I can tell you're a skilled worker by what you've already built! But, I think everyone has to practice DT's in the beginning? Ya'll correct me if I'm mistaken.


----------



## jmartel

August, if you are cutting them freehand try making a few of these first:

https://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/page.asp?p=1458

It helps out a LOT. It's a dramatic difference from my before to my afters. Still not great, but decent enough on the practice stuff I've been doing.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya know, DTs were the first thing I practiced quite a bit before I used them in my work. I can't think of anything else I just practiced for the sake of practicing. I always test my machine setup etc. After that I just go for it.

Practicing give you a good feel for each step in the process.


----------



## donwilwol

I always test my machine setup etc_

What? Red uses a machine!!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

No Don…...I AM a machine.

lawl.


----------



## August

> Lat, I love your small joinery bench…looks like a good idea! Small enough to move it around, but stout enough to really hold your workpiece. AND, please add the embellishments!
> 
> August, what happened? Too many gaps? Buddy, I m a newby at DT s, have only practiced 5 times, but am improving. The way I understand them fancy joints is that they must be practiced on cheap wood before the bench? Grab some cheap poplar, and try a few joints. I can tell you re a skilled worker by what you ve already built! But, I think everyone has to practice DT s in the beginning? Ya ll correct me if I m mistaken.
> 
> - terryR


TerryR
My buddy 
I know right 
Well you see I had a Freind that stop by and he should me and help me to do this 
I use my table saw to cut the pins and I hand cut the tails, or what ever the name for the ends.
So far they are all a tight fit the first drawers so far,.
I still have to clean up the rest.
I will post more pics today.
If they are good, I'll post if they are a screw up I'll make a HF video about it LOL


----------



## August

> August, if you are cutting them freehand try making a few of these first:
> 
> https://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/page.asp?p=1458
> 
> It helps out a LOT. It s a dramatic difference from my before to my afters. Still not great, but decent enough on the practice stuff I ve been doing.
> 
> - jmartel


Thanks J
I've been looking lots of article to do dovetail,
You see I love the challenge 
And I love to try new things 
And the way I see it if I can't so this now half ass style 
Then I'll never learn.
Oh by the way I don't know if you knew what happen to the leg vise
I had to change from wood to aluminuim.


----------



## August

Here is one I have clean up so far and it's looking ok


----------



## terryR

Damn, August, your DT's look better than mine! Go for it!!!

Why waste poplar and time with practice? LOL!

Like your style…just friggin' do it!


----------



## bandit571

Who knows, maybe August will try some of these









Mitered corners? Well, not quite









Ah, Mitered DOVETAILED corners…

This was my FIRST try at these vexing things Needs a little more fine tuning.


----------



## Airframer

That's it… I quit!
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Those look better than anything I have cut to date!


----------



## Pezking7p

Ok you've inspired me to go cut a dovetail.


----------



## Pezking7p

Ok dovetails didn't go super hot. I did get my dovetail saw tuned up, though. Cuts like a dream now.


----------



## August

Well I dry for the drawers and it's ok,
Not perfect but I'm actually glad I tried and kinda happy, 
Anyway with a little plane work it should look 25% better


----------



## ColonelTravis

Going to open this thread next Monday and see August say - I don't know anything about medieval architecture and multi-ribbed ceilings but I came up with this over the weekend:












Still haven't tried my new L-N dovetail saw because of several projects that are ultimately leading to dovetail work but I'm inspired.


----------



## August

Lol colonel!!!!
Hey colonel I replied to your pm just for an FYI!
Anyway I have all the tails and pins clean please don't ask which one are which because I don't know ok.
I'm thinking about cutting them in half because comes your right, they are big,
You see I had no choices since the friend that stop by said this is what I need! But it seems like it's wrong will see.


----------



## john2005

Seems the Colonel has August pegged!

Nice work August. Better than my first go. Or second. Or third…....


----------



## August

> Seems the Colonel has August pegged!
> 
> Nice work August. Better than my first go. Or second. Or third…....
> 
> - john2005


Thanks john
I think I but more than I could chew thou LOL


----------



## ColonelTravis

August, didn't send you anything but there's nothing in my box so hope it got to the right person.


----------



## CL810

Travis, you funny guy! A good belly laugh sets the tone for the rest of the day. Thxs.


----------



## terryR

LOL at the Medieval tower!

But, I think August is just someone who learns faster than ME! Jeez, those DT's look fine! Spread some glue and get out the clamps…

On a side note, I beefed up my lathe table with vertical supports and was about to add horizontal stretchers for drawer slides…But have seen too many lathes on the www with nothing whatsoever underneath them. Darn lathe spits out debris like nothing I've seen, and most of it goes straight down. Bad place for drawers IMO.

Now considering a shop vac underneath and a downdraft surface…wish I had SketchUp skills to show what's inside my head…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Terry, I think you should design a *lathe flowbee*....


----------



## TerryDowning

Yeah, my lathe is one of my messier machines.

I have yet to see a great solution for it. I did see a pretty cool rig for pen turnings and small stock but would not work on a bowl or longer spindle. The good thing about lathe debris is that it's a lot like hand tool work debris. Shavings that are easily swept up. You do get fine dust when sanding but a decent shop vac setup can get a lot of that and I also use a box fan with a filter taped to it. Gets a lot of the fine airborne stuff. It's a garage hobby shop, not a full time operation so I don't sweat the the DC that much.

Great work going on here fellas.


----------



## ToddJB

August those are some handsome drawers. They're designed for access from either side?


----------



## August

> August those are some handsome drawers. They re designed for access from either side?
> 
> - ToddJB


Hey yes booth sides,.
But last light after laying all the drawers frames out and fitting them to the frame it look way to big,.
And not functional. And practical to me,
I had a Freind that help me do this and now I'm not happy with it.
So will see.


----------



## August

Hey TerryR and big Red and CL 
Question I type you guys name because I know you guys have a beautiful and complete working leg vise 
Did you guys use the suede or leather?
I have leather to use, and what kind of adhesive do you guys recomend? 
And do I put that booths side? Fix jaw and movable jaw ?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

August- I think suede is the way to go. I've used tooling leather and, of course, it leaves an imprint if its clamped hard. I used contact adhesive tool install it.

I prefer to install leather just on the chop. I didn't like the leather on the leg. I didn't like how it spaced the board away from the giant clamping surface…..that is the front of your bench.

However, with your bench being mostly metal, you might have to make some other considerations.


----------



## CL810

August - Suede, both sides, contact cement.


----------



## August

Thanks Big red
Mine will be the same as a roubo style bench 
Fix jaw meets up with the front of the bench top.
I had leather as my disposal.

Thanks CL

Question 
I type in suede on eBay and all kind of stuff showed up
Something like faux suede? Is that what I need?
And some say fake suede?
And some say leather suede?


----------



## CL810

Faux is fake. One side will be leather usually with the other side sueded. Only caution is be sure to get the right thickness. I can't remember the numbering system but if you google it you'll find something that explains it.


----------



## August

Ok thanks CL
I did notice that I have to put some research because I need a few of them
I have one moxon that's built it to my bench and 2 leg vise and 2 portable moxon.
Thanks bud


----------



## August

Here a small up date on the bench so far


----------



## terryR

Love the leg vice, August!

Leather thickness is expressed in ounces, one ounce= 1/64". I buy a lot of leather…Tandy Leather Factory has great selection usually.

Look for some 2-3 oz suede, goes on sale for $1.99 per sq ft all the time. Even in colors!  You'd want some 4-5 oz veg-tanned leather for a knife sheath, 6-7 oz for a man's belt, and 8 oz for sewing a saddle FWIW…


----------



## August

> Love the leg vice, August!
> 
> Leather thickness is expressed in ounces, one ounce= 1/64". I buy a lot of leather…Tandy Leather Factory has great selection usually.
> 
> Look for some 2-3 oz suede, goes on sale for $1.99 per sq ft all the time. Even in colors!  You d want some 4-5 oz veg-tanned leather for a knife sheath, 6-7 oz for a man s belt, and 8 oz for sewing a saddle FWIW…
> 
> - terryR


Thanks terry


----------



## shampeon

I've been eying this:
http://www.amazon.com/Premium-super-strong-self-adhesive-backing-SUEDE-DIY-black/dp/B00CBJLNW2

Mostly for the ease of install, and that I don't need 70 sq/ft. of suede. It would appear to be 3oz suede. What do you think, Terry?


----------



## August

Ok this is what I'm doing now
I have all this brass bushing that measure 1" OD
And .750 ID
I got them space out on the right side fix jaw of the other leg vise.
I tried the jennings auger but 16/16 
Has a nice fit but I'll be damn if I drill all of them by hand,
I might have to buy some bits.
Anyway suggestion please and let me know what you guys think thanks


----------



## merrill77

FWIW, I temporarily stuck mine on with double-stick tape to try out the leather. That was at least 6 months ago…at some point I guess maybe I'll glue it?


----------



## August

> I ve been eying this:
> http://www.amazon.com/Premium-super-strong-self-adhesive-backing-SUEDE-DIY-black/dp/B00CBJLNW2
> 
> Mostly for the ease of install, and that I don t need 70 sq/ft. of suede. It would appear to be 3oz suede. What do you think, Terry?
> 
> - shampeon


Thanks I did not see your reply sorry ok cool I'll check it out


----------



## August

> FWIW, I temporarily stuck mine on with double-stick tape to try out the leather. That was at least 6 months ago…at some point I guess maybe I ll glue it?
> 
> - merrill77


Thanks why I ask thanks for your input because that's exactly what I was going to do


----------



## BigRedKnothead

August- what are the brass bushings for? Do they go in your dog holes?


----------



## jmartel

I think those are his dogholes. 0.750" ID and 1.000" OD. Inserts them in and uses them as his dogholes.


----------



## August

Yes they are BigRed 
Today was the first time I had to run out and buy a tool for the wood LOL
I bought this bit









Jmartel is spying on me LOl


----------



## August

Well my lazy dead man is done.
Thanks God for a droop press


----------



## lateralus819

Ogee on the ends of the chop - Check!









Stopped chamfer with lambs tongue - Check!

























Phew, glad those are over! Wouldn't have been the end of the world if i messed up, but glad I didn't!

Now to figure out how to transition the chop ends to the sides. Was thinking a simple round over? Anyone have an idea?

This is probably my slowest project yet lol. Only did the chamfer and chop ogees today, for some reason was whooped from work and decided it best to quit. Watched man of steel with the wife, good movie!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well look at you guys all blingy-blingy.


----------



## lateralus819

Yes Red, Bling!

Like i told my wife, I'd rather practice new things on my stuff. The chamfer/lambs tongue was quite fun to pull off. Easy too.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

True dat. Lambs tongues are rather handsome.


----------



## john2005

Got more bling then anything!


----------



## Boatman53

August it looks like you have a nice brace there but for drilling larger or many holes a brace with a bigger swing is a handy thing to have. The littler ones a great a driving screws but nothing (except a drill press) beats a 14" swing brace. But I see you already solved the problem. Just throwing out the alternatives.
Jim


----------



## Buckethead

August is phenomenal and lat is making art. I am proud to just watch.


----------



## CL810

> Anyone think adding an ogee like flair on the ends of the chop will some how weaken it?
> 
> - lateralus819


I feel set up. ;-)

Great work Lat - Legendary.


----------



## August

Thanks bucket,
I tell you one thing working with mahogany is very pleasant compare to the wood I have work on.


----------



## terryR

Ian, that self-adhesive leather should work fine. Looks expensive, but easy to apply.

and +1 to carpet tape for installation. I got a roll of blue 2" tape from McMaster-Carr that is double sided tape from hell. IF you can peel the paper layer off, the tape will stick to anything, but there must be a tool for helping apply the tape…it's nearly impossible to get that darn paper off!

Lat, love the handwork! Cannot wait to see it with finish applied! How did you shape the ogees?


----------



## Mosquito

August, your bench is looking fantastic.

Lat, also looking awesome


----------



## lateralus819

The ogees were roughed on a band saw. Used a drum sander for the inside curve. Rabbit block to fine tune the 90 detail and the round over portion. It took less time then the stopped chamfer.


----------



## August

ok i made this just now so if ever you guys need some work done


----------



## lateralus819

Curvalicious!

Almost finished with the side profiles. Just wanted something to break the harsh transition. Took forever. Since they were perm-a fixed, i had to cut a miter as close to the profile as possible, then use sandpaper and a sanding drum in my hand to finish it off. Took me a while. Still not done, but it's close. So glad my gramps gave me his profile gauge too, worked a treat!





































Still want to do some inlay on it as well. Not sure what, but I'd like to try more than banding.


----------



## richardwootton

Dang Kevin that's some fancy bidness! What's a profile guage?


----------



## August

Well a very small update found some 1/4-20 counter sink screw with flat head to mount the wood.


----------



## lateralus819

Richard its in the top picture.

It has dozens of small metal rods. You push it into a desired profile, and in my case, I was able to hold it against the other side to gauge progress on how they were coming along.

Quite handy. It's like those toys they used to make, that you could press into your face or hand, and leave an impression.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

-
This pic may, or may not have given me a small chub.

Sorry. I've had a few beers.


----------



## Buckethead

Wow, lat! Infrackingcredible!


----------



## lateralus819

Let the chub flow my friend, let it flow. ha

My father in law walked in and says "Done yet?" I proudly answer "Nope" lol.

I don't feel like "completing" it. Not to mention my machinist at work just married, and is on honey moon. Waiting on him to turn the nuts for the wheels.

Figure I'll fiddle till he gets em done.

Of course i know I'm going over board. It's a damn bench. But whos to say they can't be sexy in the process?


----------



## RPhillips

@ BRK ^ me too!

Nice work Lat, going to have to make one of those myself


----------



## Buckethead

Not overboard IMO. Why wouldn't you make it as nice as you can. And clearly, you can.


----------



## lateralus819

As I've been building it and adding details, I've been doing a sketchup model. If anybody would like it when I'm done I'll be happy to send it.

I love sketchup-ing just as much as woodworking!

Usually I'll draw a rough model then add details to see if i like it prior to commencing.

I need to make the saw holder that will go on the side, just need to find a suitable piece of curly maple. It's lacking contrast.


----------



## Pezking7p

Lat, whoa. I went straight past chub into giant, raging…well, you see where this is going.

So I went to plane my legs and stretchers down flush to the top tonight. Turns out to be a kind of a wonky job. Nothing is really all that square with the top, so I'm having to do some extra tweaking to the legs. I'm really glad my leg vise isn't assembled yet.

Question: other than my leg vise leg, is there any reason to make the other parts anything other than decoratively flush/square? I don't want to spend six years planing on my base to get everything true.


----------



## lateralus819

I hate when that happens Pez.

I've learned to check for square as frequently as possible.

Can't help on your question though.


----------



## Pezking7p

Lat, I'm just happy to have gotten the legs inserted into the top. They are all square to the top in the typical fashion, but they are twisted slightly, which cast the faces of the stretchers and legs slightly out of plane with each other.


----------



## Buckethead

Pez, I could confess that none of my legs are square in the truest sense. (If I was the confessing type)

If you look closely at the DT tenons vs the top plies, you can tell. Nothing worth worrying about. Flush em up. It'll look great. 
I "trued" up my legs on a power jointer, but I assumed square because I squared the fence. I haven't retraced my steps, but next time I'm using it, I'll be sure to check for square more often.

Still moist over Lat's detail work.


----------



## Airframer

Pez - I wouldn't worry about them being slightly off square unless it is by a large amount. This is why you never measure and cut your stretchers until the legs are mounted. Because the legs inevitably are never "Square" to the top and you have to "Fit" each one in place.

None of my legs are perfectly square to the top but they are square enough to not be noticeable and the darn thing still works as a workbench should.


----------



## shampeon

Dan: the only real important details are: flat top, front 90 degrees to the top for the leg vise. Everything else is just bragging rights.

Lat: those ogees are fan********************ingtastic.


----------



## Buckethead

Richard, if you look at Lat's first photo in the series, that is a profile gauge. A series of pins that slide within the frame but with enough friction that they stay put well enough to retain the profile once set.


----------



## lateralus819

> Richard, if you look at Lat s first photo in the series, that is a profile gauge. A series of pins that slide within the frame but with enough friction that they stay put well enough to retain the profile once set.
> 
> - Buckethead


Thanks for explaining this better than I!


----------



## Pezking7p

Thanks guys.


----------



## August

Got the right side face of leg vise trued up,
Nothing like a good morning work out.


----------



## merrill77

Profile gauge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profile_gauge


----------



## Buckethead

August, you're loving this build, and that love is showing in the excellent results. The attention to detail needed for machining is paying off big in your woodworking.


----------



## August

Thanks bucket, for all your support back then and now.
Well all I'm doing now is waiting for the baltic birch plywood I orderd so I can have some drawers,
I'm not happy with my first design.


----------



## 7Footer

Jesus Lat, that is a true work of art….. I as well had a semi, couldn't stop looking at that picture.

And August, holy crap, those brass inserts you posted yesterday, your entire bench is unreal, super cool. Watching your vids really makes me want to learn machining.


----------



## August

Thanks 7F
I'm enjoying this build.
Since this bench will kinda be my first bench I would like to make look nice.

Lat do you have a handle pick out do your moxon?


----------



## TerryDowning

Man,

Awesome stuff going on here.
Good to see August working wood. The machining and metal work are awesome, but hey this is a wood working forum.

Lat, that stand alone joiner's bench is truly awesome. Really great work.

I'm humbled.

I have made progress on the chop for the leg vise though.

fitted the parallel guide. I should have waited on this step. Making the gule up a challenge as the parallel guide keeps getting in the way. (Oh well)









Lower section trimmed and glued up









Top section glued in place.









Remaining: 
Trim the top flush to the bench top
I will be fitting a piece of oak to the front. I'll need to cut the mortise for the wedge vise through that.
Drill the holes in the vise beam
Chop the wedge mortise in the vise beam.
Form the wedge

make adjustments and call it done.

Progress will slow again though. Really hot triple digits, super busy at work and heading to Minneapolis next week for a few days. I'll be in Mos's neck of the woods.


----------



## lateralus819

Yes August. The ever so awesome terryr was kind enough to turn me some sick wheels from wenge. I posted some pics up in the thread.


----------



## ToddJB

Man, those are so cool.


----------



## Buckethead

Workbench thread is doping. I'm gonna start randomly testing you guys for steroids. Humans can't do this stuff.


----------



## August

Well working on the movable jaw section of the vise,
I was thinking of using white oak but after a lot of thinking mahogany won,


----------



## lateralus819

Excellent choice August. Mine is sapele. And it looks marvelous.


----------



## August

Thanks lat,
The top of bench is lyptus I don't know if I'm spelling that correct but that's how I would spell it LOL


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Workbench thread is doping. I m gonna start randomly testing you guys for steroids. Humans can t do this stuff.
> 
> - Buckethead


Yup, there was I time when myself and others pushed the envelope around here. Now my benches seem boring. The torch has been passed;-)


----------



## lateralus819

I think thats the main reason I love woodworking and pushing myself. Just to see what I'm (humans) are capable.

Amazing to think we can do as good a job as a machine, if not better.


----------



## August

P


> Workbench thread is doping. I m gonna start randomly testing you guys for steroids. Humans can t do this stuff.
> 
> - Buckethead
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, there was I time when myself and others pushed the envelope around here. Now my benches seem boring. The torch has been passed;-)
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


No big read you can't pass it.

Anyway got the wood cut and and size
This is why I love my sliding table saw.,

















You can clean one side with out using. Jointer.
And I had to try the japanese saw works ok but I'll stick to the western saw.


















And I'm really impress how the grain of this mahogany looks very nice


----------



## ToddJB

> You can clean one side with out using a jointer.
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


You're totally right. That jointer you have is worthless. For a small fee I'll come take it off your hands so you can have some floor space back.


----------



## richardwootton

Todd, you better bring a big ass trailer along!

August that slab of mahogany is drool worthy! That thing is huge! And I've got the same stanley sharptooth hand saw you were using there. It worked pretty well for around 20 bucks, but I sure am glad I've upgraded!


----------



## Airframer

Strong work being done around here! Almost makes me want to build another bench!

Then again.. my boy has been showing enough interest (and excitement) about mine lately there may be a mini roubo in my future lol.

He snuck out there again today and the bench saw more action in a few minutes than it has in ages lol.


----------



## woodchuckerNJ

well well, August, nice looking work on that leg vice face.
You must be dropping weight doing those morning workouts…

And Lat, those hand wheels are sick….


----------



## bandit571

Bandit has a new jointer!









At 22" long, is almost the longest one in the Dungeon Shop. A Stanley #31 is just 2" longer.

Actually had to clean off the bench's top today, took maybe…...15 minutes. Had to drag out the old Craftsman lathe, as that 22" long jointer neede a front knob made. Spalted Maple, and it is on the Jointer's front porch in the above photo.

Board being jointed is in the bench's leg vise. There is a block of wood c clamped to the side of the bench for the other end to rest on. Wasn't long enough to reach the Crochet.

Might do some clearing out in the Dungeon, might get a little more room down there. Winter is a-coming up, and won't be able to work outside on the patio. Have a second tool chest build underway. Maybe make a second bench, just for the lathe, drill press, and scrollsaw? might have to throw the old bandsaw out into the recycle tub. can't get the blade to track right. Binds up in the guide blocks. It WAS new, back in the late 80s…..


----------



## August

> You can clean one side with out using a jointer.
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III
> 
> You re totally right. That jointer you have is worthless. For a small fee I ll come take it off your hands so you can have some floor space back.
> 
> - ToddJB


I wish I could give it to you bud, buts it's already plug in LOL


----------



## August

> Todd, you better bring a big ass trailer along!
> 
> August that slab of mahogany is drool worthy! That thing is huge! And I ve got the same stanley sharptooth hand saw you were using there. It worked pretty well for around 20 bucks, but I sure am glad I ve upgraded!
> 
> - richardwootton


Yeah I love that saw but big red already warn me that saw can get very addicting, I learn my lesson already joining this site espeacilly handplane LOL


----------



## August

> Strong work being done around here! Almost makes me want to build another bench!
> 
> Then again.. my boy has been showing enough interest (and excitement) about mine lately there may be a mini roubo in my future lol.
> 
> He snuck out there again today and the bench saw more action in a few minutes than it has in ages lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Airframer


Hey airframes 
Your a lucky man 
In some ways I wish I had a boy but my 2 girls act like me so close enough,.
Your son is saying hey old man this my [email protected] LOL


----------



## August

> well well, August, nice looking work on that leg vice face.
> You must be dropping weight doing those morning workouts…
> 
> And Lat, those hand wheels are sick….
> 
> - woodchuckerNJ


Thanks Jeff 
I'm really enjoying this blog and the people here no [email protected]

Yeah I remember now TerryR he turned mine out some diamond LOL


----------



## August

Well I'm done for tonight so my Sheba will guard my bench


----------



## RPhillips

Recommendations on an affordable planer?

This is what I would like,










This is what I can afford.


----------



## terryR

...been gone a few days…but am back…

+1 to this thread becoming a drug. You guys are pulling off some seriously nice work! Very inspiring!

Lat, the shape on your sides of the bench is exactly what I wanted to suggest, but didn't know the words. Can see I need a profile gauge!  I'd also love to see the sketch-up plans for the build! Post 'em here…I bet there are others who will want to copy your bench in the future!

August, you've been sandbagging us…you are a skilled woodworker already, don't try to deny it! LOL! I'm in love with Sheba at first sight.


----------



## merrill77

I also wanted a big planer on a small planer budget…so I bought used. The 3hp 15" planers are nearly indestructable…so with a little bit of tuning and cleanup, I had it running great. After using it for 10 years, I sold it for more than I paid for it, bought a slightly newer one - because there was a Byrd spiral cutterhead available for that one  I'll never wear out that planer.


----------



## August

> Recommendations on an affordable planer?
> 
> This is what I would like,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what I can afford.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RPhillips


Buddy I'm in the same that's what I want also but this is what the wallet suggested


----------



## August

Haha TerryR
It's called YouTube and google images and LJ 
Lol


----------



## RPhillips

Damn, August, figured you'd just machine yourself one!!


----------



## August

> Damn, August, figured you d just machine yourself one!!
> 
> - RPhillips


Lol don't say that 
I can't even finish my project now you just gave me something to think about LOL
But that grizzly you choose has lot of great review


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Rob- as far as I know, the DeWalts are among the best of benchtop planers. I don't think you could go wrong with one.

There are some reconditioned ones here:
http://www.cpooutlets.com/reconditioned-woodworking-bench-top-planers/reconditioned-woodworking-bench-top-planers,default,sc.html


----------



## bandit571

Can't even afford one of them, so









Of course, I don't have to worry about a stick of wood being too short to "run through the planer"


----------



## Boatman53

Rob the Dewalt planer a step above that one, I think the number is a 735 is a much better machine. I have both the 735 and the one you pictured. The Dewalt pictured is ok for a site machine but it has it's limitations. I used to have a big Rockwell planer but sold it after I found out the 735 could handle everything I needed it to. The 735 with a hose and a trash can will even take care of it's oun mess without a dust collector.
Jim


----------



## RPhillips

I have read some great reviews of the 735 on LJ's. So if I can't swing the Grizzly, I'll be considering the DW735.

I'm just looking at the giant timbers in my garage and wishing I had a better way to prep them other than Bandit's method.


----------



## DanKrager

Rob, I have the same planer wet dreams. I'm liking that Grizzly with a carbide insert head (whatever you call them). And I have an RBI planer that I can't seem to wear out to justify it, though a roller is giving me trouble.

What's wrong with Bandit's method? It might take a little longer but it would be less work for you. You see, you have to manhandle the beams through the corded planer, but you only have to carry beer to bandit, using his method!

DanK
Edit: actually my dream shop would have a Felder combination machine with a 10' sliding table and all the toys like planer, mortiser etc. Can't find a used one I can afford!


----------



## August

> I have read some great reviews of the 735 on LJ s. So if I can t swing the Grizzly, I ll be considering the DW735.
> 
> I m just looking at the giant timbers in my garage and wishing I had a better way to prep them other than Bandit s method.
> 
> - RPhillips
> </blockquote
> 
> Agree with hand-planing the whole project,.
> Nothing with that just nice to have 90% done by machine and the rest hand tools.
> My two cents


----------



## August

Help or advice please.!!!
Ok I'm planning to wrap the 3 sides or I'm in the process of doing it already,
My question I have the wood face of the movable jaw secured with bolts to the extrusion,
And also the one on the right, and taking a break so I can mill the wood for the left side,
Do I need to glue the 2 side board to the moveable jaw? 
And what kind if glue is good ?
Thanks.


----------



## lateralus819

Man I love that hand wheel August. Looks neat.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

August, I don't think you'd have to glue them. But if you want to, regular wood glue would work.


----------



## August

Thanks Lat,
I've been dreaming of this bench for a while now and I'm still thinking of new ideas.

Thanks Big red
I was concern that over time they will shrink?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^True. There will be a little seasonal movement. So maybe just let them be.

I'm don't have a lot of experience attaching wood to metal;-)


----------



## August

Thanks red but I was actually asking about the wood on the right side of the leg vise you see my leg vise is compose of 3 wood ? Anyway please let me know thanks,.
Well after a careful alignment and layout I plane the wood so they will all be same size and, I'm happy so far.

Tell you one thing planing wood with lots of counter sink screws, is like playing Russian roulette. LOL













































Hey Big Red
The LN #6 and low angle jack is perfect combination loving it men.


----------



## DanKrager

^+1. Glue is optional. Maybe better off without glue so the miniscule movement across the face doesn't become an issue.
Note: Without glue, unless your bolts are crazy tight, the side pieces may not contribute much to the first 1/16" of flex, if any does occur. 
Given the over-engineered construction here, NOT a PROBLEM! 
Still jealous.
DanK


----------



## August

One more question please do I have to finish the wood on the metal side?


----------



## DanKrager

One of the reasons for finishing both sides is to minimize internal stress from uneven moisture absorption. Given the way you have these fastened down, I doubt movement is possible. So uneven finish (only on one side) is not going to be an issue, IMO.
DanK


----------



## Airframer

New bench build is a go at my house. The lil guy is so excited about messing with my bench and spending time in the shop with me that it has been decided a mini roubo is in order.

The plan is to make a small scale version of my bench complete with hand wheels (his favorite part) splayed legs and all. I am toying with the idea of allowing it to be raised over time to compensate for his growth or… just have a future taller bench project in mind. Still deciding.

Nothing much to look at yet but I had this oak and construction grade 4×4 laying around and this will get me started I think..










Any thoughts on the expandable legs vs just letting him out grow it thing?


----------



## Buckethead

Make it a good height to serve you as a saw bench, Eric.

Or dry fit the legs with maybe a pocket screw or two in a single fat tenon at each leg, allowing for replacement legs as needed. Pine is your friend here.


----------



## Airframer

> Make it a good height to serve you as a saw bench, Eric.
> 
> - Buckethead


See.. I knew there was a reason we kept you around! Good plan!


----------



## lateralus819

My wife just came in, sees me drafting and tinkering with my saw bench in sketchup and says.

"Wow, what are you doing?"

"I'm drafting. It's my saw bench"

"Well why don't you make a nice piece of furniture?"

"What do you mean a nice piece of furniture?"

"Well isn't it going to get beat up and stuff?"

....SO WHAT? It's my bench and I'll pretty it up if i want to, how's about that?


----------



## richardwootton

My response in that situation; "honey, I have to build this to be able to make that really nice piece of furniture!"


----------



## August

My response to Lat is I made a blog about that LOL


----------



## August

Hey airframer
Is that a leather chair with wheels??! In your shop?


----------



## Airframer

It's a worn out vinyl desk chair with wheels in our garage which also happens to be my shop lol.


----------



## DanKrager

AF, if you want help with the dimensions, contact BRK. His might be pretty close to what you need… 
DanK


----------



## August

All I know about work--- surface is it's nice if you could adjust the height,
But I also know that in wood it's more
Of a pain.


----------



## Boatman53

Hey August glad to see you clocked those screws in the vise wood. I couldn't live with it otherwise.
Jim


----------



## August

> Hey August glad to see you clocked those screws in the vise wood. I couldn t live with it otherwise.
> Jim
> 
> - Boatman53


Thanks bud,
I had to order those screws since all I had was Allen heads,
And yes I will be lining all them up I too have that problem.
If FYI I love your website!


----------



## August

Since the right side leg vise is done time for the second one and I found some help,


----------



## DanKrager

She's a beauty, August! 
Your daughter is really cute too! Do it just right and you'll have a great helper!
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, that's another thing August and I have in common. We both married out of our league…..and thankfully our children got their mother's good looks. Thank you Lord! lol.


----------



## August

Amen big brother Red LOL


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, a shot from our honeymoon.


----------



## August

I won't even ask which you are on the pics Red LOL
On the other note I'm glad I got my honing skills good


















A little 4-1/2 action


----------



## August

Sorry I don't how my assistant took the pic but you get the idea lol

Men I have power tools or machine tools, but this hand tool stuff is very nice, for me as a hobby not for hire ok.
But I need a saw bench.


----------



## BubbaIBA

I started dimensioning a little over 200 BF of 8/4 Beech June 15, I didn't get too far that day as MsBubba was helping and on the fourth board, a 10' 240mm wide 8/4 Beech timber, she pulled a muscle. Today I dry fitted the small slab to the base and I expect before I call it quits for the day the large slab will be ready to dry fit. It may not be placed on the base because it is a heavy sucker and I'm working by myself.

Long story short, I will have a working bench before the first of August. This is while working full time, keeping Casa Chaos from falling down, caring for two big hairy dogs and so on….you know having a life.

One of the reasons the build has gone as fast as it has is over the years of building workbenches my benches have become very simple as I pare away unneeded and unused farkles. This bench will be a good working size for my shop. The spilt top is asymmetrical with the small slab being 192mm wide, the large slab 372mm wide and the split 61mm wide for a total width of 625mm. The length of the top will be around 2450mm, maybe a little shorter, maybe a little longer. The top will be 96mm thick and the top of the bench will be 892mm from the floor. The base is 625mm wide and 1465mm long. A quick back of the envelope calculation puts the final weight over 400 lbs.

The bench will have a Paramo #52 face vise, a few 3/4" round dog holes for stops, battens, and holdfasts. I will add a lower shelf to the stretchers and I will build a bench jack.

Chopping the mortices:










Draw boring the leg set:










Small slab dry fit:










The large slap should be ready to dry fit tonight or in the AM.


----------



## CL810

Looking good Bubba.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks for sharing Bubba.


----------



## BubbaIBA

> Looking good Bubba.
> 
> - CL810





> Thanks for sharing Bubba.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Thanks guys,

Even though the basic design was set before the first board was ripped, I've scanned, read, and/or looked at every post on this thread. I just finished a couple of days ago….it took almost as long as building the bench .

There are some beautiful benches being built, some with amazing vises and work holding abilities. I can appreciate the thought, planning and effort that has gone into the various builds. My approach is slightly different, a very minimalist build, one vise, an old English metal vise that is not flush to the side and not much else other than a few dog holes. I have a spare Paramo stored somewhere in the "tool room" aka Fibber McGee's closet that I may put on later if I find I miss a tail vise. I doubt it will happen, the wagon vise on the current bench has been used less than a half dozen times in the last three years.

A long way around to saying "thanks" but as always ask me the time and I will start telling you how to build a clock, I guess that is just part of being older than dirt.

BTW, I didn't finish chopping and paring the large slab mortices last night, been at it since early AM, I'm sweating like a pig and my arm is a noodle.

The finished base:










ken


----------



## terryR

Awesome looking bench, ken! Very clean joinery, and it sure looks stout! Strong work.

August, you got a real cutie helping in the shop! You definitely need a saw bench…ever seen C.Schwarz rip while sitting down?

my shop helper…who has claimed the 1/2 completed tool chest as His…










...kinda lazy and forgetful, but very affectionate! LOL.


----------



## CL810

Strong Bubba, real strong.

Now get back to work, we want more pics! ;-)


----------



## Airframer

The boy started on his bench yesterday.. planing the oak for the top 










Seriously though this will begin this weekend I think. Pretty stoked about it.


----------



## BubbaIBA

> Strong Bubba, real strong.
> 
> Now get back to work, we want more pics! ;-)
> 
> - CL810


You asked for it .

I fit the second slab early this AM. I had to return a couple of drill bits that were loaned and take the critters for a ride in the truck before I could shove and push the benches around the shop. I still need to move the drill press over by the bandsaw and the swamp cooler under the table saw but I've got it so I can finish the bench build. I forgot to add the leg vise needs to be re-installed on the old bench. still a couple, three days of work to finish.










The back side of the bench with the old bench in its place.










ken


----------



## BubbaIBA

ThanksTerry,

Here is my shop helper. every shop needs a critter.









ken


----------



## richardwootton

Very nice work there Ken! I love that Ray Iles mortise chisel.


----------



## August

> ThanksTerry,
> 
> Here is my shop helper. every shop needs a critter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ken
> 
> - BubbaIBA


that is priceless
mine does weird stuff


----------



## lateralus819

Well had the machinist turn the nuts for my wheels. What say ye?


----------



## shampeon

That is gorgeous, lat.


----------



## CL810

Beautiful Lat!


----------



## donwilwol

well done Kevin.


----------



## byerbyer

Looks slick Lat!


----------



## JayT

There are so many ways to make a dirty joke out of that, lat, but I shall refrain.

Looking pretty sweet there.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I refuse to look at that any more.


----------



## August

Lat that job is unreal men,
Almost looks like it was done in a cnc machine.
Someday I'll be able to try to make one.


----------



## terryR

Lat, that is schweeet!!! Easy Daily Top 3! 

Love the shop dogs…bet we have enough stories for a Shop Pet of your Dreams thread!


----------



## lateralus819

JayT I spent 5 minutes figuring out how to word it but alas, no proper way to put it!

Thanks for the comments and i can't help but chuckle at Reds post.

August- Nothing is impossible. Try your hardest, make mistakes and most importantly have fun!

I need to pick up a piece to make the saw holder for the side. Was working on a Chisel holder for the left but decided i don't like it. Work in progress.


----------



## lateralus819

Thanks terry. I was worried drilling the holes for the nuts. Phew!

I much prefer the threads hidden at least that way I don't ram into em.

I dropped one of the wheels on accident, not a scratch on it!

The nuts add a significant heft to them.


----------



## chrisstef

Hold me.

Edit/translation - friggin awesome lat!


----------



## theoldfart

^ hold yer own buddy!


----------



## August

Well got the brass bushing gorilla glued in for my worthless dead man


----------



## donwilwol

all that's left is the knobs. What to do, what to do?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Turn a bunch of low knobs, ala: T11


----------



## theoldfart

+1


----------



## donwilwol

> Turn a bunch of low knobs, ala: T11
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Maybe…...building a replicator (or trying to anyhow) is getting close to the top of my to-do list.


----------



## palaswood

Thats a grand idear. But how about routing recessed pulls? Its much cleaner, but then you don't get to turn knobs. Trade off. I hate bumping my knees on knobs and handles myself.


----------



## shampeon

What about something like this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-of-10-Vintage-Antique-Brass-plated-cup-bin-drawer-pulls-unused-3-Wh-Screws-/221460056060?pt=Architectural_Garden&hash=item33900c47fc


----------



## August

> all that s left is the knobs. What to do, what to do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Don W


Brass knobs DonW!!!!


----------



## jmartel

Remote control motor actuated drawer mechanisms.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I hereby withdraw my suggestion and endorse Jmart's idea.


----------



## BubbaIBA

> ....
> that is priceless
> mine does weird stuff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Too cute, I love it.

ken


----------



## August

Thanks ken
My dogs figured that garage was empty for 6 years now it has junk tool LOL


----------



## BubbaIBA

The new bench is in place and a working bench. Still a couple more things to finish, the split "fill and tool holder" and the lower shelf but that will come along with dog holes as needed.

Onward to other projects.


----------



## richardwootton

Very nice Bubba! Are you sticking with just one Vise?


----------



## palaswood

So does building a workbench out of cocobolo sound like a reasonable idea?










This is a pic of Diamond Tropical hardwoods in PA's warehouse, sent to me by kevin. I was inquiring about the small cobobolo logs they had for sale at 3$ lb, but they were out of stock. This is some of what they DO have in stock. http://www.diamondtropicalhardwoods.com/

Yours today for the low low price of just $29 a board foot people! What are you waiting for!


----------



## richardwootton

Mercy!


----------



## August

Well sanded and first coat of murdoch's oil is applied


----------



## RPhillips

Looking good August!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Droolworthy Bubba. Some days I wish I would have went for the split top.

Nice August. Any treatment for the top?

Had to post this where TerryR would see it. My adorable niece with the mallet he made me.


----------



## richardwootton

That's too ridiculously cute Red. Makes me wish my niece didn't live all the way across the country.


----------



## August

Hey red your wife make some good looking kids Red LOL

Yes for the same finish top is lyptus and ride side leg vise is mahogany
Left side leg vise is all lyptus too I'm using the same finish


----------



## BubbaIBA

> Very nice Bubba! Are you sticking with just one Vise?
> 
> - richardwootton


Thanks,

Yep, just the face vise. Over the next week or two I will be adding 3/4" dog holes for holding work that the face vise can't.

I have a wagon vise on the old bench, since the install, which BTW is a PITA, it may have been used a half dozen times and then not because I needed to use it but just because it was there. I can work much faster and easier using holdfasts, battens, and stops than with a tail vise.

Of course YMMV.

ken


----------



## john2005

> Remote control motor actuated drawer mechanisms.
> 
> - jmartel


It really is the only logical thing to do.


----------



## BubbaIBA

Red,

Thanks, the split just makes for an easier build and allows the base to be wider for a given working area.

ken


----------



## jmartel

> Remote control motor actuated drawer mechanisms.
> 
> - jmartel
> 
> It really is the only logical thing to do.
> 
> - john2005


Something like this.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red,
> 
> Thanks, the split just makes for an easier build and allows the base to be wider for a given working area.
> 
> ken
> 
> - BubbaIBA


Also, when you need to smooth or fit drawer sides, you can just hook them on the end of the bench. That's handy.


----------



## terryR

Pretty cute, Red! Thanks! Man, your shop has a certain beauty about it…

Jeez, August, lyptus and brass, and machined parts everywhere. Maybe you should send Benchcrafted a few photos, so they can upgrade their stuff? LOL!

Nice, Don, 15 good looking drawere lickity split! How about a wooden pull that echoes the showing tenons from the sides? That or NOS Sargent pulls! 

Cocobolo at nearly $30 a boardfoot? Wow. Get ready for sustainable forrest prices! just sayin'


----------



## donwilwol

I'm actually thinking of a rope pull for each drawer. One hole in the center, and a rope loop. Gets it done, vintage style, no knobs to bump into, cheap, and effective.


----------



## terryR

Rope is cool, too. I was thinking of rope handles on either side of my toolchest…especially after seeing the prices of chest hardware!


----------



## palaswood

Leather loops


----------



## BubbaIBA

OK guys, one last set of photos. The bench is finished, it has the split fill and tool holder installed, stops made and dog holes drilled. I may later add a shelf but I'm thinking not, much easier to clean under without a shelf. BLO has been applied. I whacked the top with a hammer and there is some tear out from drilling the dog holes she is now a work bench and ready to go to work as am I.










One more:










BTW, this is my first pretty bench, it is the one I wanted when I first started to read Fine Woodworking and buying tools from Garrett Wade. Instead I built the first bench out of construction grade SYP because that was all that was avaiable. Thanks to a good friend I still have that bench and most of the tools.


----------



## palaswood

Terry that price is for the squared blocks, they are pretty large. I'm sure the 4/4 stuff is much cheaper… has to be! Yeah, its $15/bf. So don't freak out yet.


----------



## bandit571

Doing some on with the bench today









Grooves for the raised panels will meet in the corners as miter-looking joints. Leg vise to hold it on place, a bit of saw work, and chisel work









Sawing some tenons, with both a chisel and a #78 to clean them up. Then chop a few mortises, and come back to the bench for a test fit









Still have to trim to fit a raised panel for the inside of the frame. This is part of a Tool Chest build going on. Lumber came from a broken-down bed frame. mainly white oak/ash. Seems to be some red oak in there too.

Take a good look, as this is as clean as the benchtop gets…..


----------



## August

Men looking at all this fine woodworking workbench makes me feel so ashame that I posted my bench here,.
Someday I'll make bench that bubba.
That's a heavy duty bench men.

Hey Big Red
After a long debate with wife looks like I will get a chance to try to copy your the cleat system you have with the joinery bench.

That's a beatify system you came up with bud.


----------



## lateralus819

Little work on the bench. Wanted two drawers for permanent storage of joinery tools. Was going to do two, made them up and everything (no glue yet). Realized it wouldn't project enough passed the front jaw to give ample room for rummaging through. Came up with this instead. It will sit on the stretcher.

Had an oops. Since i used locking rabbets, the tongue is on the inside of the sides. I accidentally cut the bottom groove on the outside. It's still usable, i just have a 1/4" overhand on the front/back sides. 

Might make it rotate on two dowels pinned to the back legs, and do a small container in front of the stretcher.

Check out the figure on the purple heart. Bought that board well over a year ago, not wanting it to go to someone else and just couldn't find a use for it. Was tired of looking at it, still have more left.


----------



## CL810

Bubba-How many benches do you have? You can tell us, we understand. ;-). But I am curious about the purpose of each.


----------



## Pezking7p

Holy dangit guys. Bubba jumps in here from nowhere and BAM, finished bench. Lat is throwing down mad stylin curve skills.

I haven't done anything lately. Got one leg planed flat. Poor bench is on the floor.


----------



## richardwootton

Lat, all this time I just thought you were a 4 1/2 collector. Turns out you're actually one hell of a woodworker!


----------



## richardwootton

Pez I'm right there with ya, with two different hand injuries on both hands any real work has come to a near halt. The only thing I've been able to knock out lately was a big a$$ joiner's mallet.


----------



## Boatman53

Hey Richard are you still interested in one of those Stanley 203 clamps? I've got two left one I was saving for you but you never got back to me. Let me know where you stand,if you are still interested or not.
Jim


----------



## lateralus819

Thanks for the comments Gents'.

Richard- I love tools but i love woodworking more. I usually have spurts with both. A while back i had an injury at work to my hand so i couldn't build much, so i restored and sold a ton of planes to keep me occupied. I don't have much left other than my #4 1/2 collection and a #606/#607 and some joinery planes etc.


----------



## BubbaIBA

> Bubba-How many benches do you have? You can tell us, we understand. ;-). But I am curious about the purpose of each.
> 
> - CL810


My name is Bubba and I'm…... There are just three in my shop at this time. The old small one on the East wall that is my sharpening bench, my old "prime" SYP bench with the leg vise and wagon vise on the west wall, and my new Beech bench in the center of the hand tool area. The SYP bench on the west wall will be the overflow bench and used mostly for assembly, glue up and finishing but with some joinery as needed.

I needed an assembly bench and when I went to the wood store to buy lumber for it they had a special on European Beech. I have always wanted a Beech work bench and the sale price was less per BF than any of the domestic woods that are good for a bench build. My plans changed and I came home with just a little over 240 BF of 8/4 Beech. While the old bench will not be as good an assembly table as one purpose build it will still work and the new bench is one I've always wanted to build.

ken


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Sounds similar to my setup Ken. A primary bench, a joinery bench, and a sharpening bench. Doesn't everybody need all three? ;-)


----------



## BubbaIBA

> Holy dangit guys. Bubba jumps in here from nowhere and BAM, finished bench. Lat is throwing down mad stylin curve skills.
> 
> I haven t done anything lately. Got one leg planed flat. Poor bench is on the floor.
> 
> - Pezking7p


Dan,

The big difference is my bench was a very simple build. I started dimensioning stock June 15th and finished the build July 30th. It took around 40 hours of work spread over about 6 weeks. If the bench had a leg and/or a wagon vise it would have added several weeks, same story with a deadman and so on. Something as simple as dog holes adds time to the build, square ones a week or so, even round ones add time. I only have, IIRC, 8 round dog holes and that took a full morning to drill, if there were rows of dog holes it could add a week or more.

A long way around to: I can see why some of the builds take a long time to finish.

ken

P.S. I've been there and have added all those features to my benches before. This time I did a benefit/time/cost appraisal of the work I do and how I do it before starting the build and this is the bench I came up with.


----------



## BubbaIBA

> ^Sounds similar to my setup Ken. A primary bench, a joinery bench, and a sharpening bench. Doesn t everybody need all three? ;-)
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Red,

I don't have a clue how anyone can build furniture without all three .

The indispensable one is the sharpening bench, the others have work arounds.

ken


----------



## CL810

> The indispensable one is the sharpening bench, the others have work arounds.
> 
> ken
> 
> - BubbaIBA


I agree 100%.


----------



## terryR

Hey Dan, YOUR bench is awesome, don't fool yourself! After completion it will serve as a lifetime reminder of your skills and determination!!! BTW, looks close to done in that position on the floor. 

+1 to THREE benches. For me, the sharpening tools MUST be out in the open at all times! Screwdrivers and wrenches can go into drawers, not the DMT's and jigs. My pine beater bench is where all work gets done now, even restoring planes, and hand sanding spoons. My country boy Moxon is clamped to the table saw's outfeed table since I never use it…want a separate bench like Lat's after we move!

But…you guys left out one important bench…the knapping bench…










The joinery is a hack, but it's the perfect height, and was built for me by the ol' master that taught me refined chipping skills 9 years ago. I usually keep it on the front porch of the shop, since silica dust is deadly, but moved it inside to the A/C for a few weeks of concentrated knapping.

Jeez…all I can say is buy stock in Johnson & Johnson! My soft fingers are averging 5 band aids per day!


----------



## richardwootton

Hey Jim I'll shoot you a PM


----------



## Boatman53

Hey Terry you spelled napping wrong, and it looks a little short. How can anyone get comfortable on that. JK, I would love to learn how to knapp, in fact that was my uncles last name.
Jim


----------



## lateralus819

Here ya go guys. Check em out.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/104090


----------



## terryR

^very nice, Lat!

Jim, you must be thinking of the lolling chair in the shop instead of the knapping bench! LOL! Wish we lived closer…

Lolling chair from Thos. Moser…only about $3 grand in cherry. Ottoman included for another G…


----------



## Boatman53

Terry, I've sat in those chairs. They are comfortable, I wouldn't mind owning one if someone was handing them out.
Jim


----------



## August

Well I finally finish the 2 leg vise and 2 coats of finish so far 
Men I'm glad this part is over so I can concentrate on the drawers now.


----------



## Boatman53

Very nice August. I have twin leg vises on my bench also. They do come in handy. Well done.
Jim


----------



## Pezking7p

I sat in a lolling chair on Monday. So nice.

August I love how your bench is taking on more and more wood.


----------



## DanKrager

Love that look, August. But….do they work? 
DanK


----------



## August

Thanks Jim
I have crazy idea that I want to learn hand tool work so I'm guessing that the right side leg will be nice if I'm cutting some wood!!! Maybe LOL

Thanks Dan
Wait there will before wood for the drawers I can't wait but I have to make the bedroom bed so wife will be more nicer LOL

DanK
No they don't work I just like the look


----------



## lateralus819

August that leg vise is awesome.

Still oogling over that hand wheel


----------



## Pezking7p

August, gotta keep the wife happy. Always.


----------



## richardwootton

August that really is awesome! You're a freaking engineer!


----------



## August

Thanks lat 
Talking about handles I forgot to include the built in moxon and the portable one
Haha



























Thanks Dan
Yeah so atleast I can squeeze mine project too LOL

Thanks Richard it's what I call luck thanks all for kind words

And thanks to all the support also since wood and I just meet


----------



## lateralus819

August-Since you're a machinist (A phenomenal one at that) do you find yourself fussing over woodworking as if it was metal working?


----------



## widdle

Blown away by August work..Bonkers..


----------



## August

Funny you say that .
Yeah men I don't know how you guys do this wood working so nice and make look fun.
I'm having fun doing this now 
But I will need all the help I need from you guys. 
Anyway lat I wish I have a bigger garage. Because after looking at. Your latest project yacht will be cool to have in 
Days where it's nice you can drag. It out your back yard and do woodworking there.


----------



## August

> Blown away by August work..Bonkers..
> 
> - widdle


Thanks bud it's what I call luck 
And google images and YouTube LOL


----------



## Airframer

August…. the best advice I can give you as far as having fun working with wood after coming from a machining background is this..

Make peace with the thought of close being just fine. Once I stopped fussing over making sure things were perfectly flat or within a 64th of an inch etc. Really it is more about what the eye can detect and our eyes aren't that precise. So relax and remember it doesn't have to be perfect to be perfectly fine work. That is when it gets to be fun.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Opposite for me. Whenever I work with metal, I'm like "Dang, you gotta be so precise with this crap!"


----------



## Airframer

That's exactly what I was getting at Red. Working metal IS about precision or it just won't work but, wood is much more forgiving of being a little off here or there. It just takes time to realize that. Once you do it is more zen than anything.


----------



## jmartel

Course, wood moves quite a bit more than metal does. Gotta account for that which you didn't really have to in metal very much.


----------



## ToddJB

August, your bench is awesomely origional and wonderfully executed.


----------



## August

Thanks Eric 
I need to do more wood project.
Hopefully this bench will teach me some lesson.

BigRed 
I feel you man anyway it's done so it's time to start making some projects 
Like some if that project in that book that you guys recommended,
I think a shooting board and a saw bench is what I need because I ran into lots of problem where I wish I had them.

Thanks Jeff
I really wouldn't mind building the whole bench out of wood,
It's just I can getetal all day long but wood I have to buy them by, and have it ship.
So metal won.

Thanks Tod
I was actually impress in how it turn out.


----------



## shampeon

Yeah, that's an impressive bench, and really elegant. I like how modern it is without looking silly.


----------



## CL810

^ +1


----------



## richardwootton

Eric, that's the best advice I have read concerning woodworking. Still being fairly new to the craft and also being quite a bit of a perfectionist.


----------



## BubbaIBA

I used the bench to destroy some wood last night and this AM. It is for sure a workbench now, I've a couple of chisel marks on it from chopping waste from dovetails and a hammer mark from earlier. I thought about using a backing board but discarded it, I know me….using a backing board would have drove me barking mad and lasted a few weeks at most. I might as well get over the new bench and let the top be marked up, it's a workbench not a piece of furniture.

It was good to have a small saw in hand and work on a small project. I discovered something I've suspected, I'm blind as a bat up close and my glasses are useless. It is damn hard to saw to a line if the line is a fuzzy, blurry, kinda I think it is there, mark on a hunk of wood. I put on my "reading glasses" and suddenly the blue birds are singing, the sun is out and there are white fluffy clouds in the bright blue sky. Mein Fuhrer, I can see, I can see. Ok maybe a little overboard but that was how it felt.

One other bit of kinda bench info. I ordered a LN #8 the other day, my excuse was I expected the bench to need flatting and my old Stanley type 9 #8 might not be up to the job, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Two things: the LN #8 is a beauty, and the bench is as flat as the Texas panhandle with no wind straight off the build. If the slabs do not start doing stupid wood tricks it may be awhile before the LN #8 sees duty.

All that is a long way around to: Thanks for looking at my bench and commenting. I've enjoyed looking at all the bench builds while I took rest and cooling breaks from building mine. It's time to put the bench to work….Here is one last photo, I did decide after using it to add a lower shelf. As you can see I just used what scrap wood that was handy.

See you guys on down the road,

ken


----------



## Pezking7p

> Course, wood moves quite a bit more than metal does. Gotta account for that which you didn t really have to in metal very much.
> 
> - jmartel


First place I worked, this engineer put a tight fitting aluminum plate inside a steel box. This box was heated up to 130C to laminate some parts together with a thermal adhesive. This did not end well, lol. Aluminum plate turned into a potato chip at 130C.


----------



## August

Men your all right you do need a workbench to have fun LOL
Anyway trying to make a shooting board,
Any advice??
Using baltic birch for base
And left over lyptus for fence and guide?


----------



## Airframer

All I can say is that I don't think that plane will do. Nope I am afraid it won't work at all for that application and is probably taking up unnecessary space in your shop. It would probably be best if you sent it to me for safe disposal.


----------



## August

> All I can say is that I don t think that plane will do. Nope I am afraid it won t work at all for that application and is probably taking up unnecessary space in your shop. It would probably be best if you sent it to me for safe disposal.
> 
> - Airframer


You know what bud I think your right ok I'll send over night fedex 
I always said that this plane is broken who wants a side ways hand plane 
LOL


----------



## knockknock

August, if you were following these directions (for the edge shooting board):

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/content/documents/instructions/L-N51ShootingBoardInfo.pdf

You are missing the 1/2" thick deck board that sits on top of the base board, covering the base board from the left up to the 1/8" dust groove.

edit: If you look at the first picture in my work shop, you can see my cruder shooting board on top of my workmate:

http://lumberjocks.com/knockknock/workshop


----------



## August

> August, if you were following these directions (for the edge shooting board):
> 
> http://www.lie-nielsen.com/content/documents/instructions/L-N51ShootingBoardInfo.pdf
> 
> You are missing the 1/2" thick deck board that sits on top of the base board, covering the base board from the left up to the 1/8" dust groove.
> 
> edit: If you look at the first picture in my work shop, you can see my cruder shooting board on top of my workmate:
> 
> http://lumberjocks.com/knockknock/workshop
> 
> - knockknock


Thanks bud you know I was actually wondering about about that I knew I was doing something wrong,
Thanks god nothing so glued yet,
I was or I'm still in the process of cutting it,
Too bad I don't have any 1/2 baltic
But I do have lots of 1/4 I know it's crude but I guess I can glue them up?


----------



## knockknock

Glad to help, it wasn't too long ago that I was just starting with hand planes.


----------



## DanKrager

August, you probably don't need more than the 1/4" stuff. Check how far the blade is from the base deck, probably less than 1/4". All you have to do is elevate the work piece so the blade can get at it. The more you put on that you don't need, the less capacity available for your workpiece.
DanK


----------



## RPhillips

After seeing Bubba's Split Top, I'm rethinking my build. I originally wanted a split top, but changed my mind and wanted a traditional Roubo. Now I'm back on the Split Top wagon.

Well, here's the progress on getting those 4×8 flat and square. My 605's been doin' work!


----------



## ColonelTravis

me looking at the August build


----------



## BubbaIBA

> After seeing Bubba s Split Top, I m rethinking my build. I originally wanted a split top, but changed my mind and wanted a traditional Roubo. Now I m back on the Split Top wagon.
> 
> Well, here s the progress on getting those 4×8 flat and square. My 605 s been doin work!
> 
> - RPhillips


Rob,

I have one split top pretty straight, leg vise and wagon vise, semi Roubo bench. It is a good bench but there were some things that bothered me. With two equal slabs the split was where I wanted a holdfast dog hole too many times. I hope that is fixed by having an asymmetrical top. I did not use the stop function of the split fill and it was a PITA to pick up and/or remove. I fixed that on the new bench by not making the split fill so it can function as a stop, it has a smooth bottom and can be removed very easily.

Before starting this build I thought about making a solid slab and in fact right up until glue up I leaned towards a solid slab but once I started wrestling big hunks of beech around the shop and thinking about how….just how in the heck I would pick up and move a 3000mmX620mmX100mm slab around the shop much less get it attached to the base. The split top became much more attractive, add in the fact I have a heavy duty 20" planer that can true a 370mm and a 170mm slab with no trouble but not a 635mm slab. It was a no brainer and I'm glad it was, the split on the new bench is very functional and even better I needed help moving things only a couple of times

Good luck,

ken


----------



## August

Thanks Knock

Thanks Dan 
But it does really need the 1/2
I'm still going to call that place you found for me Dan about the hardwood.

Thanks so colonel
I'm trying to fit in LOL


----------



## August

Hey Philips 
Those are some nice timber there going to make a solid bench there very nice


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Rob- go for the split top. Your lumber would work well for that build. I can see all kinds of advantages for a split top: built in tool holder, planing stop. hook for planing drawers on the end.


----------



## RPhillips

Yeah I'm leaning towards the split top for the same reasons. I plan on moving in the somewhat near future and don't see myself moving that bench without dismantling it. With the split top, I can us tenons and then bolt the top on and be able to easily remove it. I'm going to go with an asymmetrical design as well.

Is the piece you have running down the center (tool hold) made up of 3 pieces of 3/4? I was going to go with a 3/4, 1/2, 3/4 board for the center, but I'm not sure 1/2 is enough.


----------



## BubbaIBA

> Yeah I m leaning towards the split top for the same reasons. I plan on moving in the somewhat near future and don t see myself moving that bench without dismantling it. With the split top, I can us tenons and then bolt the top on and be able to easily remove it. I m going to go with an asymmetrical design as well.
> 
> Is the piece you have running down the center (tool hold) made up of 3 pieces of 3/4? I was going to go with a 3/4, 1/2, 3/4 board for the center, but I m not sure 1/2 is enough.
> 
> - RPhillips


Rob,

A 3/4" spacer in the split fill is too thick to hold some of your chisels by the metal part. My spacer is 14mm (9/32" for those still stuck in the fractional world). With that width a Stanley 750 will rest on the socket, 12 or 13mm (1/2") is wide enough for most chisels and saws to fit. If it is wide enough for the chisel to rest on the handle the chisel can separate and the cutting edge can fall through. Ask me how I know . I was shooting for 19-24mm (3'4"-15/16") for the long sides but one of the sides did some stupid wood tricks after ripping and it ended up a little thin. No real harm, the split fill is just a little looser than ideal but functionally no different.

Yes, two long boards sized to fill the split with a series of 100mmX14mm spacers.

ken


----------



## RPhillips

Exactly what I was thinking. I have a set of SW 750's, so perfect analogy for me.

Thinking about making a loose tenon on the upper cross member that would fit inside the told holder, then I could make a stepped filler block as that would allow me to lift and slide the tool holder up and over to rest on the tenon. That would allow me to use it for a stop that could be adjusted depending on the height of the stock I'm working with.

Probably doesn't make sense what I'm trying to say….but in my mind, IT'S AWESOME! lol

I'm also planning to add a leg and tail vise. Might make a cross for the vise chop. Not entirely sure yet. For the tail, not sure yet. I want a wedged wagon vise, but not sure what I'll end up with. Maybe a Moxon style.


----------



## Boatman53

Hey Rob and everyone, at the moment I am joining talents with another vise maker and will have a joint venture so to speak. The end result will be a quick release, pin less leg vise. His parts are in transit to me as I write this. Then I'll build another vise and pair it with my chain mechanism. I'm really excited about the prospects. Sorry for the tease but I don't have the parts yet. 
Jim


----------



## richardwootton

Jim, that sounds really cool! I can't wait to see that…


----------



## yuridichesky

Jim, this is great news!

Too bad my shop is way too far from your shop, I'd be glad to provide you my workbench for tests and experiments.

I'm sure this is going to be cool vise!


----------



## RPhillips

Cool, look forward to seeing it.


----------



## Pezking7p

BAM! Epic shop day:


----------



## shampeon

Yes, Dan! Gogogo!


----------



## richardwootton

Bamn is right Dan!


----------



## theoldfart

Yowza Dan, outstanding work.


----------



## August

> BAM! Epic shop day:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Pezking7p


That's it I'm turning my bench to the scrap metal for recycle money I want a bench like yours 
Very nice


----------



## Airframer

Wow Dan! Nice job! Where's the Bondo?


----------



## richardwootton

That's what I'm talking about AF!


----------



## RPhillips

Nice! Awesome work Dan

...But no bench is complete on this site without a Bondo pose…so get too it!


----------



## RPhillips

Found a pretty good deal on a small bench top Delta planer off Craigslist. Going tomorrow to pick it up.

http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/tls/4600220163.html

This isn't one of you guys is it?  be pretty cool if it was.


----------



## Pezking7p

Thanks guys! Bench is still too wet for a Bondo. Wife was not happy because I spent from 8:00-7:00 in the shop except for lunch, so I had to run make dinner. I'll do a mini douche tomorrow and snap a Bondo.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Happy for you Pez. A great feeling ehh?


----------



## CL810

Great build Dan! Man oh man, that is one sweet looking bench.


----------



## Wally331

Awesome bench pez, I haven't been following this thread that closely but I imagine that bench cost you a fortune haha! I'll get there eventually but for now its 2×4's.

I've had a few days off football recently so I've been trying to finish up my bench. All that's left is assembly at this point. Goint to drawbore everything tomorrow as soon as i buy more glue haha.
Galoot index is about 9.5, I used a table saw to cut the big groove for the breadboard on the left side but I s4s'd 13 2×4's by hand as well as all mortise and tenon joints. A no.18 auger is a bear with a 10 in. Swing brace. Need me a Yankee 12 inch. Anyways, my shavings and other scrap is about at 60 gallons or so.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ya, used to knock out stuff like that high school too. Ya know, little weekend project.


----------



## Pezking7p

Wally, bench looks good. I always have a special appreciation for splayed leg benches. The cost of my bench is a lot less than you might think due to extremely cheap hardware.


----------



## theoldfart

Wally looks good but you might consider a 14" or 16" brace for #18.


----------



## terryR

Looks good, Wally! I've been putting little ding marks on your rip saw all week…NOT on purpose,,,just getting used! 

Dan, that's an awesome bench, congrats on the finish!


----------



## CL810

Great build Wally!


----------



## john2005

That thing is hot Pez. A thing of beauty. Love the clean functional look. Nice job!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wally, a 9.5 GI is impressive, as is your call for a 12" brace to pull a #18 bit. Solid galootness on display here, all take notice!!


----------



## donwilwol

> Wally, a 9.5 GI is impressive, as is your call for a 12" brace to pull a #18 bit. Solid galootness on display here, all take notice!!
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


galootness is a life style. I am unworthy, unwilling or unprepared. I'm not sure which! Well done Wally!!!


----------



## AnthonyReed

^Bullsh!t but yeah, awesome job Wally.


----------



## Buckethead

And the steroid usage continues on this thread.

Dan, beautiful build. Such a gorgeous bench.

Rob, I'm stoked you're entering the design change stage. This is the stage that can go on forever. ;-) plans are soon set in stone by taking action. I'm thinking split top is a smart design. My issues were in time dedication, and limited skill set. My design choices were streamlined once I got past the dovetailed tenons on the the legs. Was ready to swear off hand tools after that.

Wally and Bubba just show up one day and build a bench. Bam. Done. And no slouch of a bench in either case.

I'm feeling humble, in a good way.

Well done, men!


----------



## RPhillips

Thanks Bucket, yeah, I know what your saying about the tenon/tails. I have one leg that I have already cut the tenon and part of the dowetail on, but fortunately for me, my legs are at about 50" long, so I have room to cut them off and restart.

I'm loving it, I found a couple more smaller pieces of oak for the stretchers and will probably only have buy the materials that I need for the tool tray and leg vise chop.


----------



## BubbaIBA

Bucket,

It's easy if you subscribe to K.I.S.S. My bench is distilled down to the basics and I've built several very much like it only not as simple. Most of the bench building time is used scratching your butt trying to figure out "how". Once how is figured there is not much to do other than wrestle with big heavy hunks of wood.

ken


----------



## Pezking7p

Ask and you shall receive.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Pretty fly for a white guy.


----------



## richardwootton

Awesome Dan! Dude, the building your shop is in looks awesome! What's the story there?


----------



## Airframer

Well it's official now!

I'm also digging the bare wood shop walls. Nice job!


----------



## lateralus819

Finally installed the suede on my moxon. Also epoxied the handles on, and proceded to drop a wheel and chip it, then had to ca it back…

Need to build a seat for it but will have to wait till i build a book case for my wife.


----------



## Airframer

> Need to build a seat for it but will have to wait till i build a book case for my wife.
> 
> - lateralus819


But…. don't you need that seat to make the book case? You either have the right tools or you don't is all I am saying..


----------



## shampeon

Yes!


----------



## theoldfart

Dan good, the project is now at 100%


----------



## Pezking7p

Richard, my shop is an old outbuilding. I don't know that it was originally anything other than a shop, but when I got it it had a sloping gravel floor. It's wide open to the outdoors (need to seal it off, insulate, and ac) via open soffits. When I took possession, I had a concrete floor poured, buried a 60A service from my house 100' away, ran lighting and electrical, and walled off the garage part of the building. It's a good space, but it needs more wall storage. It would be very hard to drywall.


----------



## palaswood

Awesome bench and awesome shop Dan.


----------



## August

Oh men


----------



## Boatman53

Nice bench Dan! It is amazing how a good bench can improve your work.

The vise hardwae arrived yesterday. It it very interesting. He sent a wooden hub but I'll be fitting a wheel.










I dug out some 8/4 maple I've had in the shop for over a year so it is well acclimated. I plan on posting the whole build of the vise. It will be an add on to an existing bench. One of my original prototypes is there now, it will be moved to another shop. 
It will be cool having a quick release leg vise with no pin.
Here is a link to a YouTube vid he made.




Jim


----------



## richardwootton

So that's an unthreaded rod? I'm really interested to see this bad boy work!


----------



## Pezking7p

Very cool, Jim. Package looks nice. Got any other anodizing colors?

Richard, there are bearings inside that act like threads, I reckon. They are angled so as to drive the rod if it is spun. The bearings are fit so that the rod will slide, but once the vise racks slightly the friction is increased so that the bearings no longer slip. I'm kind of guessing here so please tell me to shut up if I'm off base.


----------



## Boatman53

It is pretty interesting. There is a key way milled into the rod (not visible in the photo). As the hub/rod I'd twisted something in the gold housing grabs the rod and pulls it in. A counterclockwise turn and the rod slides in and out very easily. Everything is very well made, and sealed from dust.
Jim


----------



## Boatman53

Dan I have no idea how it really works, but there is no racking involved. According to his website he is thinking of changing to a black anodizing. It is made by Hovarter Costom vises.
Jim


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Interesting Jim. I saw that vise in a blog, but the first thing I thought was that it doesn't address the parallel guide/pin issue. I can see why you guys would pair up.


----------



## Pezking7p

Jim, ahhh, the key way must engage a gear to tighten the bearings or something. Google search for "threadless lead screw" and there should be a bunch of photos. Very ingenious design, well loved by linear motion people since there is no backlash.


----------



## RPhillips

> Ask and you shall receive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Pezking7p


Awesome!


----------



## CL810

Jim, that is a great looking vise.


----------



## RPhillips

I noticed that as I have been working the boards flat for the bench top that I'm getting a lot of tear out. The grain seems to go in different directions making very difficult to avoid tear out. SO this leads me to ask, is there a good article on how to read the grain and how to go about planing it to limit tear out?


----------



## terryR

Awesome bench and pose, there Dan! Goodness you are younger than I thought. LOL.

Rob, looking for an article with photos…but, if you are getting tear out planing north, try planing south and see if there's improvement? Also, make sure you are sharp…


----------



## Pezking7p

Terry, I've been blessed with boyish good looks. It wasn't until a year or two ago that I was no longer constantly mistaken for being 21-22 (this can make dealing with people at work who don't know you very amusing at times). Wife is the same way. We are 31/33.

Rob, sharp iron light cuts fix almost everything. Otherwise you just have to think about either planing into the end grain or with it. There's bound to be a video somewhere where roy underhill is cutting a straw broom with a knife. But I always think of it as planing into end grain fibers or with end grain fibers.


----------



## CL810

Rob, here is a PW article that is very good.


----------



## terryR

Here's a .pdf file from Woodworking mag…

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/WMGrainDirection.pdf

Also, try skewing the plane 45 degrees to your path of travel…

Edit…^LOL…same article! My mistake on the reference…


----------



## RPhillips

Terry/Clayton, thanks for the link  Good article. Exactly what I was hoping to learn.

It seems that two (both cut from the same beam) of my boards have to be planed from different directions in the same piece. Not sure how much knots affect the grain, but the problems area seems to be near one. If you flip it over, no problems. Looks like I will just have to plane from both ends


----------



## palaswood

Dan you are a handsome man who builds a handsome bench, there i said it. 

Rob, I use a lot of reclaimed pallet wood which has knots and swirling grain aplenty! (mainly why its used as pallet wood in the first place, I'm talking oak, maple etc here. Not pine).

So here's what I do, yes obviously reverse direction if you're getting tear out, what everyone else said above plus when you hit trouble spots, it helps to come at it in an arcing motion, sort of like a semi circle, so the blade hits the wonky grain at an angle, and not head on - still have to figure the best path of approach and be willing to take short cuts where you'll lift up on the heel of the plane to bring the cutter out of the cut without leaving a mark.


----------



## RPhillips

>


 ^^^^

I want!


----------



## skipmathews

Awesome Bench!! Looks Beefy! You're going to really enjoy it! Your new favorite tool


----------



## mochoa

Whats up yall. Red guilted me into being more active in the forums so here I am. ;-) jk.

That thing is sweet! definitely need a painless parallel guide.

Wally, nice to see another splayed leg bench in development! The club is getting bigger!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^It's my Mauricio man crush. Must be the accent.

Rob -lovin the new avatar. My brother is a Powell Perralta encyclopedia.


----------



## richardwootton

Maur, glad to see you back man!


----------



## richardwootton

Maur, glad to see you back man!


----------



## richardwootton

Maur, glad to see you back man! Your bench build was definitely one of my favorites to watch come together.


----------



## richardwootton

Oops triple post, my bad fellas!


----------



## shampeon

The second sequel really added to the story, IMO. The first sequel was just too similar.


----------



## RPhillips

Thx Red, Coop is one of my fav artists, but it was time for a change 

as for Powell, their Animal Chin video turned the skateboarding world upside down…


----------



## CL810

Rob, that's Clayton/Terry. I posted first. ;-)


----------



## BillWyko

I have to say, no matter how much I like the bench I built & submitted, you guys are constantly making want to build another one. I think this thread was what motivated me to get started in the first place. I need a bigger shop so I can build more benches. So very well done guys!!!


----------



## August

Damn that's a tiger^


----------



## BillWyko

You all have some pretty bad ass workbenches for sure, but how many of you are building a wine cellar AND a Dalek robot on your bench at the same timeLOL


----------



## Pezking7p

Wow, strange juxtaposition. Exterminate! EXTERMINATE!!!!


----------



## BillWyko

LOL, I knew there had to be someone that knew. 
I'll post video of the robot when its all together. 6ft tall & fully remote control of all functions & lighting. Not to mention 33 speakers & 10,000 watts. Google CES Dalek to see it prior to the automation. We built it for the CCESshow, got 4.7 million hits in 72 hrs. and was awarded a top 10 gadget of the show.


----------



## lateralus819

Since my moxon is done, i needed a marking knife. I didn't feel like buying one just yet, so i made my own.

Had an old AMT bull nose that i had a blade for forever. Ground it down, picked up a brass ferrule and some poplar dowel and here we go. Few hours of work. Still need to finish honing the blade.


----------



## mochoa

Red, that's the fist time I've heard anything positive about my New Orleans Yat accent. LOL.

Thanks Richard, I've been around, just not often enough to make timely responses to posts.

Humidor that thing is a beauty!


----------



## Sylvain

The previous Hovarter vises were based on the principle of the pipe clamp which is also used in the pipe vise" sold by veritas .

the difference with the "pipe vise" is that when one turns the rod of the Hovarter vise clockwise, there is a cam (driven by the keyway) which will push the clutch lamella (pipe locking mecanism) backward ensuring the tightening.
Turning the rod anticlockwise will alow the "clutch" to travel back with the aid of a spring.

The travel distance between not tightened and tightened is very small unless you want to clamp a spongy material.

The new mecanism is sealed but I suppose it uses the same principle.

The system is patented.
mecanism


----------



## jmartel

> Since my moxon is done, i needed a marking knife. I didn t feel like buying one just yet, so i made my own.
> 
> Had an old AMT bull nose that i had a blade for forever. Ground it down, picked up a brass ferrule and some poplar dowel and here we go. Few hours of work. Still need to finish honing the blade.
> 
> - lateralus819


I just picked up some marking knife blades to do this. I don't have a grinder and didn't want to spend a while just using a belt sander so I figured it was easier to buy. I got a large and a small blade in the set, so at least I'll have 2 for the price. Now I just need to figure out which wood to make it out of.


----------



## Pezking7p

Sylvain, Thank you for posting that. So when you turn the handle, the pinion gear must drive the wedge, and the whole assembly must drive the clutch lamella first down into the shaft, then drive the shaft forward? All powered by the wedge on top of the assembly/transfer bar? This is not how I expected that thing to work.


----------



## byerbyer

That Dalek is pretty sweet… the wine cellar looks sharp too.


----------



## Sylvain

Pezking7P,
Yes,
first locking the clutch on the rod then pushing it further with the rod locked to it.

at least that is how I understand it. 
There was previously more material on the web but I don't remember where I have seen it.

In some way in a quick release vise with a threaded rod you first engage the nut (locking the rod) and, with further rotation of the handle, you push the front vise jaw forward.


----------



## DaddyZ

Not a cellar but a cabinet

^ August - DRooolll, WOW, Just WOW !!!!!!!!


----------



## WhoMe

For those with the leg vises, how thick and how wide are your vises?
And would a 2" x 7" or 8" oak be ok to use?


----------



## Mosquito

my leg vise chop is a piece of 8/4 red oak, and was 8" wide, and has worked fine for me so far


----------



## shampeon

Mike: My chop is 10" wide x 3" thick. I think it's bigger than most. The thickness was required due to the mortise for the criss-cross. If you're doing a typical parallel guide, there's no reason a 2" oak chop wouldn't work.


----------



## richardwootton

I just like the look of a big old beefy chop like Ian's. But 2" by 8"-10" should serve you just fine.


----------



## August

So does my chop it works fine


----------



## Pezking7p

My chop is 12/4 by 10". Actual thickness is probably 2 3/4. Aesthetically I think it's great.


----------



## Airframer

Mine is 8/4 by 8". No complaints here.

Random bench shot from the archives..

The state of my bench one year ago today..


----------



## Pezking7p

Lol, I hope you saw how blatantly I copies your wagon vise design.


----------



## RPhillips

The state of mine a year ago…


----------



## Airframer

And I am totally fine with that lol.

Rob - You have made more progress than Stef has.. bright side and all that stuff ;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Glad you didn't wuss out Rob. I feared for your masculinity.


----------



## WhoMe

Wow, thanks for all the great replies on the chop. Glad to see I'm on the right path.
Hopefully I can still get that piece of 2×9x36 hunk of oak. If not it might be the 7" wide piece. Unfortunately the maple pieces are smaller.
Anyone think mahogany is too soft?


----------



## Boatman53

I got the main mechanisem mounted mounted on the the back leg/jaw. I'm not building a bench, I'm just adding it to a utility bench.
First drill an 1 1/8" through hole, then with the help of a template I made I routed the recess for the front bearing.










Then turn it over and insert the shaft for a smooth fit. Drill the four mounting holes and fasten.



















Work on the chop starts tomorrow if I can fit it in.
Jim


----------



## Boatman53

Mahogany is a bit soft in my opinion and would need to be thicker. I have only 6" widths on my leg vises and do not wish the were wider. 6" clamps tight enough for my needs.
Jim


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

8/4 chop, some kind of mahogany, about 7" wide or so.


----------



## WhoMe

Thanks again guys, appreciate the helpful advice.


----------



## August

Smitty
I wish I made that same hook thing you have on your workbench,
If I has to redo it all over again I'll move the left vise a little more to the left and have a hook.
Very nice 
Your bench is almost the same on the workbench book cover shot.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I lied, it's 7/4 thick, 5 1/4" wide.










August, thanks. Much credit for what this bench is belongs to that Blue Workbenches Book.


----------



## skipmathews

The leg vise I use is an antique. 
It is oak 1 7/8" thick x 7" wide x 24" height with a 2 1/4" wood screw
I have been using it a few months and so far it works great.


----------



## BillWyko

Thanks guys, every bottle rest on the wine cellar has 4 dovetail joints x 3000 bottles . I must be crazy to do that.bottles







.


----------



## bandit571

I need to get this box done, so I can have my bench back









Takes up most of the bench right now. Still need a bottom and a top cobbled up









Used to be just a pile of bed frame parts….


----------



## richardwootton

Skip that leg vise is too freaking cool!


----------



## August

I said when I finish this bench I will never use the right side leg vise,
But I finish it I haven't stop using it.
Love the leg vise.
Dosnt matter what kind of leg vise blue or alien model if it works it's good enough.


----------



## richardwootton

Awesome August! What are those laminated pieces intended for?


----------



## Pezking7p

It's for his joinery bench


----------



## richardwootton

Here I was thinking it was for his Roubo bench build! Silly me!


----------



## August

thats fro my wife and i bedroom bed-frame post LOL


----------



## skipmathews

Richard - Thanks for the comment! Something about putting that vise back to work is pretty cool to me too!


----------



## terryR

Looking good, August. If I could work on all 4sides of my bench, I'd love 2 leg vises. But, I've shoved my tool well against one wall, so am still dreaming of a wagon vice for the right end.

Dan's newly completed Roubo is the bench of my dreams…beech and walnut, please!


----------



## August

Thanks terry me too I'm thinking of a wagon vise that I can incorporate to my bench.for now the leg vise with my design it acts like a shoulder vise.


----------



## terryR

^sounds cool…build TWO!


----------



## Airframer

My boys mini roubo build is a go  He should have it done about a year before Stefs is done so we have that to look forward to.










Build blog here


----------



## BubbaIBA

Why I don't need no stinking Tail Vise .

You folks please tell me if I'm wrong. The major function a tail vise, wagon vise or what ever serves is to hold long boards flat on the bench between dogs for face planing, cutting rebates, or grooves. Here is how I hold boards for two of the big three:










Here it is with the groove for the bottom partially cut:










Once I finish with these bottom grooves I will drill the holdfast holes for the "bird's mouth" batten I use with a stop and a holdfast to secure boards for face planing, taking care of the rest of the big three jobs for a tail vise.

I think for each of these jobs, holdfasts, battens, and stops will do the job as fast or maybe faster than using a tail vise and with little chance of bowing thin stock. As always YMMV.

BTW, notice my row of dog holes are slightly more "inboard" than they would be if the bench had a tail vise.

Photos of a face planing set up to follow.

ken


----------



## August

Ok moss here it goes


----------



## Mosquito

^ Ah yeah! Now you can call your bench done lol


----------



## richardwootton

Haha! That's awesome August. You gotta love the boots with shorts…


----------



## JayT

Bubba, I'm with you. I put a tail vise on my bench when it was built, but wasn't using it, so pulled it off a couple months ago. Holdfasts, planing stops and a batten do anything I would use a tail vise for.

There's a great video by Richard Maguire's English Woodworker site about using holdfasts with a batten. (I'm on the tablet or would provide a link. Easy enough to find with a search) Made me rethink how I was working-the batten is so much faster and easier than a vise.

Way to rock the Bondo there, August!


----------



## shampeon

Atta boy, Mr. August. Nice post with the plane, too.


----------



## Pezking7p

Nice, August! That bench is a beast.


----------



## August

Thanks all haha
Love my wolverine Boots


----------



## BubbaIBA

> Bubba, I m with you. I put a tail vise on my bench when it was built, but wasn t using it, so pulled it off a couple months ago. Holdfasts, planing stops and a batten do anything I would use a tail vise for.
> 
> There s a great video by Richard Maguire s English Woodworker site about using holdfasts with a batten. (I m on the tablet or would provide a link. Easy enough to find with a search) Made me rethink how I was working-the batten is so much faster and easier than a vise.
> 
> Way to rock the Bondo there, August!
> 
> - JayT


Jay,

While no end vise may not work for everyone. I've found in use dogs and an end vise of whatever type a PITA and not worth the effort to install on my bench.

It's nice to know I'm not the only one .

ken


----------



## ToddJB

August, The inner thigh shot only adds to the beauty of your bench.


----------



## August

I did that just for you men LOL
TerryR 
Was my model for this


----------



## RPhillips

> Ok moss here it goes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Love the Boots!

Yep, now she's done!

Awesome bench, it's been fun watching you build it. Thanks for sharing…


----------



## August

Thanks man
There's
More pics on my website 
Originally I was going to todo the pin guide but decided not too.


----------



## merrill77

Bubba said: "You folks please tell me if I'm wrong. The major function a tail vise, wagon vise or what ever serves is to hold long boards flat on the bench between dogs for face planing, cutting rebates, or grooves."

That's certainly one use. Here's how I was using my wagon vice today:










I also use holdfasts a lot, too, but in this case (adjusting the tops of drawer fronts) I greatly prefer the wagon vice. I put each drawer front into the vice a few times while checking for a good fit…and there were a total of 19 drawers. So I probably clamped/unclamped a drawer at least 40 times. It is MUCH quicker with the wagon vice than clamping the way you've shown.

Now, there are many ways to solve a problem. Another choice for my application would be a long planing stop. My first choice for your application would be a fixed stop with a single holdfast - one less holdfast to reset for each board. Or maybe stops on two sides, and no holdfast. Of course, this is all moot if you only have one board to work.

But I may be a little biased - I like wagon vices so much that I put three on my bench 

If I may make a suggestion - glue some leather on the clamping face of your holdfast and you won't need the blocks between the workpiece and the holdfast. Besides saving time, it'll hold better, too.

Just my 2c
Chris


----------



## BubbaIBA

Chris,

As I have posted before, everyone works differently and good on you for finding that wagon vises work for you. I have one on what is now my secondary bench, had it for several years and I found it a pain to use because for many applications it needed an additional clamp, batten, or holdfast to hold the work piece. I will say this for a wagon vise, it is less a pain to install than a classic tail vise and in use it is better than either a tail vise or a face type vise installed on the end of a bench. I'm just not a fan of vises and dogs to hold work. Once again YMMV.

Sometimes two holdfasts work better than one and a stop, sometimes not. As for leather on the holdfast, BTDT. Blocks work better, same caveat for all the above YMMV.

BTW, I would guess there could be a whole book written on the many ways to use combinations of holdfasts, battens, and stops to hold your work and once it was published someone would point out that one or more ways were missed .

ken


----------



## donwilwol

double post, I was drooling over these workbenches,
Many more pictures, http://timetestedtools.wordpress.com/2014/08/11/hancock-shaker-village/


----------



## Boatman53

My next bench will be greatly influenced by Shaker benches. I want to replace my bench built out of a door. I've got plenty of vises to choose from, just not sure which ones to install.
Jim


----------



## donwilwol

Note in the first picture the drawer on the right has a cover over it. It was hinged and inside was drawings, paper and pencils. Probably like a writing desk. I thought that was so cool and I've never seen it before.

This is the second or third time I've been to this place. Each time I'm amazed.


----------



## JayT

> Note in the first picture the drawer on the right has a cover over it. It was hinged and inside was drawings, paper and pencils. Probably like a writing desk. I thought that was so cool and I ve never seen it before.


That's a very good idea. Might have to retrofit something similar onto my bench.

Those benches are definitely drool-worthy. How long was one in the middle pic? Looks like at least 12 feet.


----------



## donwilwol

> That s a very good idea. Might have to retrofit something similar onto my bench.
> 
> Those benches are definitely drool-worthy. How long was one in the middle pic? Looks like at least 12 feet.
> 
> - JayT


I'd guess 10 or 12'. It was long. The other interesting thing I noticed was all of the tops where edge glued plank. 6",8" inch plank glued up. You can see it if you look at some of the close ups.


----------



## skipmathews

Is there any history on the sliding board jack (dead man) that would tell how long it has been in use?
Someone asked me if it was a recent woodworking innovation.
I don't really know. I haven't seen one in any really old pictures or drawings.
In one picture I see a board jack on the bench with the blue drawers and I see the bottom groove for one on the other bench.
What I usually see in old drawings are a few holes drilled in the legs of the bench. Probably for hold-fasts.


----------



## skipmathews

AND! Thanks for the pictures! Wood be a great place to visit!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The Schwarz recently blogged the deadman as an early improvement. As in, four centuries ago, thereabouts. Check out his bench update on Lost Art Press, that's where he says it.


----------



## skipmathews

Thanks Smitty I will check it out.

I also see three tail vises in the pictures


----------



## donwilwol

I posted it in the wrong thread 

its hard to see, but I think this has a sliding deadman


----------



## lateralus819

Don, I thought that blue bench looked familiar. For good reason.

It's in episode 102 of Norm abrams bench build. He visits that place and shows it off!

I drive to mass every weekend, where is that place??


----------



## donwilwol

@Kevin, http://hancockshakervillage.org/visit-2/directions/


----------



## Airframer

That place.. ^^ See that place? Would happily sell my nuts for a shop like that. Heaven on earth!


----------



## theoldfart

Don, thanks


----------



## richardwootton

I want to live there Don!


----------



## Boatman53

Don was that last pic you posted at Hancock? It looks like the Dominy workshop that used to be in East Hampton, but got moved to Winterthur Museum.
Jim

Edit… Just checked some photos and yes it is the Doniny workshop. Many photos on a google search. They were famous local (to me) craftsmen. Building mostly furniture and clocks. I think the clock shop might still be here but it is privately held. There is a book about them " With Hammer In Hand" now out of print but I wish I had a copy.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Jay,
> 
> While no end vise may not work for everyone. I ve found in use dogs and an end vise of whatever type a PITA and not worth the effort to install on my bench.
> 
> It s nice to know I m not the only one .
> 
> ken
> 
> - BubbaIBA


I admit, I don't use my end vise as much as I thought I would. Sometimes its quicker just to use a dog or my planing stop. But I'm still glad I have it. Mine didn't cost anything because it was the front vise off my old bench. 
I don't think I'd spend big bucks on an end vise though.


----------



## Airframer

Mini Bench is moving right along. The boy helped glue up most of the top today. Hope to be done a couple years before Stef is…










More in my blog


----------



## DanKrager

AF, you tryin' to hide those little red crocs? 
DanK


----------



## richardwootton

Strong helper there! I'm surprised he didn't have the mallet in his mouth. Then again, I accidentally got some BLO in my mouth yesterday, and it was super foul!


----------



## Pezking7p

> I accidentally got some BLO in my mouth yesterday, and it was super foul!
> 
> - richardwootton


I think if you said this out loud you might reconsider having eternalized it on the internet.


----------



## Airframer

> AF, you tryin to hide those little red crocs?
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Sadly no… I am seeing the benefit of tiny crocs that cannot be taken off easily for shop use lol.


----------



## ToddJB

^ I giggled for some time over that one.


----------



## richardwootton

Hahaha! I'm still giggling over that one Pez!


----------



## Mosquito

Found a use for one of my practice dovetail board pairs… little scrap of oak and I have a bench accessory for pens, pencils, marking knife, and scissors


----------



## woodcox

Good stuff Don. Betwixt the hewn beams and live edge studs, that shop is the ish! Feeling shop log inadequate again, that thing is massive!

Very cool Eric! Maybe plan for the customer's vertical gain when you get to the legs

 Take note: I lost ALL of my bench build(not to mention some epic minion)pics because of a soaked phone. Meathead move not to back them up elsewhere.

Congrats with your new bench Dan!


----------



## BubbaIBA

> I admit, I don t use my end vise as much as I thought I would. Sometimes its quicker just to use a dog or my planing stop. But I m still glad I have it. Mine didn t cost anything because it was the front vise off my old bench.
> I don t think I d spend big bucks on an end vise though.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Red,

Some folks use 'em, some don't. I have a wagon vise on my old bench for use if I ever run into a need but from pass experience odds are it will never be used. When I decided to build the new bench I looked at most of the end vise/wagon vise options and none made sense from a cost/effort/benefit perspective.

While I haven't worked long on the new bench, the end/wagon vise has not been missed and it is nice having that area of the bench clear and usable.

Here is my set up for planing boards that are too long to plane in the face vise. For wider boards I have a stop that spans two dog holes, in this image I just used a dog for a stop.


----------



## Pezking7p

Mos, I think I'm going to copy your little dovetail board tool holder. Daddy like.


----------



## bandit571

Having trouble seeing the top of my bench right now, seems a box has settled on to it









For awhile, it was both Bottomless, and topless. Now it is just topless









Three pine boards for a floor. Having the box clamped in place to pretty things up









Getting some Walnut plugs installed into the white oak frames









Then MAYBE I can see the top of the bench again….


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos, I think I m going to copy your little dovetail board tool holder. Daddy like.
> 
> - Pezking7p


It's a good use I finally found for some of my practice dovetail boards lol.

The other one is I'll use one for a backerboard or a scrap when I'm paring or drilling. I'll just clamp one in the bench, and use it as a waste board to stop blowout


----------



## JADobson

> Strong helper there! I m surprised he didn t have the mallet in his mouth. Then again, I accidentally got some BLO in my mouth yesterday, and it was super foul!
> 
> - richardwootton


Two of my little brother's friends were trying to cook some eggs over a campfire. They knew they needed some oil in the pan and found a bottle of BLO somewhere. They don't recommend your trying this. (Though they did eat all their eggs)


----------



## donwilwol

> Don was that last pic you posted at Hancock? It looks like the Dominy workshop that used to be in East Hampton, but got moved to Winterthur Museum.
> Jim
> 
> Edit… Just checked some photos and yes it is the Doniny workshop. Many photos on a google search. They were famous local (to me) craftsmen. Building mostly furniture and clocks. I think the clock shop might still be here but it is privately held. There is a book about them " With Hammer In Hand" now out of print but I wish I had a copy.
> 
> - Boatman53


That is correct. This is NOT at Hancock. I posted it to help answer the dead man question. Sorry if I confused the issue, besides posting it in the wrong thread!!


----------



## Boatman53

Thanks Don, I thought my post was invisible.
On another note I assembled all the pieces for a quick release no pin leg vise this evening and it works like a champ. Here is a photo of the innards, the parts hidden when it is mounted to the bench. Tomorrow I'll disassemble everything for the last time, do a final shaping on the leg and chop throw some Watco at it and mount it to the bench. Hopefully I'll get a video up over the weekend if the finish doesn't take to long to dry.










Jim


----------



## Pezking7p

Love the chop shape, Jim. Are you going to hid the chain and rod completely?


----------



## Boatman53

Yes Dan that is the back side and will be under the bench, it will be clear when you see it mounted. The jaws are taller than the bench top, that is why the back jaw I shaped also. Is is added to an existing bench, not part of a new bench build.
Jim


----------



## lateralus819

Little rant here.

I share my work shop with a band, long story, but they've been practicing here for a long time. Friends of my inlaws.

They're quite the slobs, they used to leave their crap everywhere. Beer bottles here, guitars there, amps over here. Finally my father in law had a talk and they we're ok.

Few weeks back i came in and my table saw top was COVERED in rust rings from beer. I was LIVID. I JUST sanded the top and waxed it from them doing it before, albeit not as bad. So instead of having a verbal confrontation where my anger could get the best of me, i wrote a note and taped it to the side of the saw saying it wasn't a damn bar top.

It's been okay since then. I come out today and my newly finished moxon bench is covered in rings now, also looks like they spilled a damn beer on it.

Am I wrong in being pissed off over this? Am i over reacting? I told my father in law about the table saw and he kind of shrugged it off.

I wish i could do more but it's not my place and I live here free. Most i can do is flip out on them and hope it works.

Pretty tired of picking up their ********************.


----------



## Northwest29

> Ok moss here it goes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Looks mighty good - nice shot. Just how do you get anything done with that huge TV right next to the bench. Must be a bit distracting, eh?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I'd be havin some words.


----------



## richardwootton

Kevin, I'd be having some serious words!


----------



## Northwest29

lateralus819 .. *NOT* from my perspective. It's unfortunate when other people don't give your property the same respect you would give theirs. Wonder how they would like saw dust and glue tracks on their guitars and amps? I assume you have given them the 'come on folks, can't we all just get along speech'. If so, it seems the only thing left is to cover your work area tops with an easily replace surface like hardboard. At least that way the tops would stay in good shape. IMHO HTH


----------



## shampeon

Lat, I'd be having some clear and angry words, too.

For every ring you find on your tools and benches, pull a tube from an amp. If they want their tubes back, they can clean up the mess they've made.


----------



## palaswood

OH NO NOT THE MOXON BENCH! Rock band members are total slobs, and are completely incorrigible or they would be productive members of society and not in a rock band  I'm a rock drummer so i can say that. Now aside from filling their amps with sawdust and drizzling a little BLO on their guitar necks (hee hee), they aren't going to get the message and that will probably only escalate things anyway.

Take the high road, you are living there for free - so get a couple tarps/blankets and just toss em over ur worksurfaces when you know they'll be coming by. And if you wanna make friends, cobble up a few quick coasters ( i know you got scraps) and leave em a taped to a 12 pack with a note to say kindly enjoy and use the coasters


----------



## Mosquito

I would definitely be quite annoyed about that too Lat.


----------



## donwilwol

i'd be using some guitar necks for table legs! But buy a few drop clothes and throw them over the equipment.


----------



## ToddJB

Tough call because its not your space. But there is a good chance they don't unstand the value of your tools and benches, and don't t view them like they view their guitars and amps. They might, in their minds not be doing anything wrong. You could throw together a quick table of plywood and say that they can use that as a table surface and you can use it for glue ups and stuff. I would also express the value of your tools to you.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Maybe setup a card table and say, "Here! Please use this."


----------



## Pezking7p

Is it your father in laws band? If so, he has no respect for your tools and I wouldn't keep them there. Or suck it up and get covers. If it's not his band, I'd have some strong words with them and ask that they work to restore your things to their rightful condition. Put it in terms of damaging their amps, they'll get it.


----------



## lateralus819

I might pick up some coasters or something.

Funny thing is, TWO of the guys in it are woodworkers, their dad owns a KILLER wood shop. Not like they don't know!

They're all pretty chill dudes, but alas. I told my mother in law and she was pretty pissed too.

Oh Todd, you should see their equipment. It's beat to ********************, wate rings all over em, they don't pick their stuff up when they're done. They leave the equipment out there all year long, with no heat in there. I know it isn't good for it.

I didn't even want to move in here, but after the truck came through our house, my wife said we had to go!

I'll be pickin up some coasters.


----------



## lateralus819

Pez, no it isn't but it's his barn i use.

Long story short, my brother in law was in the band in high school and this is where they practiced. The inlaws don't use it much so havn't minded.

There whole "speel" for getting us to move in here was " You can have the workshop!" Mind you, i knew the band practiced here once a week.

I don't mind them drinking, but at least don't disrespect my stuff.


----------



## palaswood

Yeah, if they're dad owns a "killer workshop", they may be spoiled and never learned how to take care of their stuff, especially since they had all those wonderful tools provided for them, the lucky no good bastards! lol
Only thing my dad ever gave me was the chip on his shoulder.


----------



## ToddJB

Truck through your house?


----------



## lateralus819

Todd- Yes, on october of 2013, 10:40 pm. I was sitting in my office drafting, and i heard a HUGE boom. Thought it was a tree falling on my garage. Split second later heard a blood curdling scream from my wife, ran into the living room to find my son (Who was sleeping on the couch by chance this night, against the wall he hit) rolling off crying.

The kid (18 at the time) was stoned, and was running from a police check point on an adjacent road. Our house was on a 4 way inter section with no lights, just stop signs. He plowed into our front wall doing about 20-30MPH with a full size chevy pickup. Luckily he hit not only the front wall, but two supports for the front roof, as well as the wall for my sons room. PRobably would have killed my son.

Worst part was i grabbed my son and ran outside to see wtf was up with this dink, and i was standing right next to him, and he had the throttle PEGGED trying to leave. Good thing he was stuck on the foundation. I didn't know if it was someone having a heart attack or what, it was too dark to see inside. He wouldn't shut the truck off until my neighbor reached in and shut it off.

It was a wild night.

When we got married our inlaws gave us 1 year rent free to save for a house when we wanted. When this happened they let us move in immediately. They have a very nice carriage house they would rent in the summer, so they let us take it.


----------



## shampeon

Whoa. That's nuts. Glad everyone was ok, by a miracle.


----------



## ToddJB

Wow. That's crazy, lat. I can't imagine what that was like.


----------



## August

> Ya, I d be havin some words.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Red your suppose to be in my side men LOL

Ron that's what I call a new tool it has YouTube LOL


----------



## dbray45

Kevin - you are correct. As I see it, you have two choices
1.) Ban them from the shop
2.) change to accommodate

By changing, I recommend that you get some 1/4" hardboard, piece of junk thin plastic drop cloth, and a large piece of denim.

Cover the bench and the TS with the board, then cover with plastic, then put the denim on top of that. You are then covered, so to speak. I do that to my bench and TS and it keeps things nice from spills and drops of glue.

As for as the "drive-through" living room, I hope your family is ok, that is a nightmare in the making.

will cost you around $20.00 but it is worth it in the long run.


----------



## dbray45

I would do that to every horizontal surface.


----------



## terryR

Goodness gracious, after reading about the Chevy through the wall, I don't feel so bad about the table saw rings. BUT, the Moxon is off limits for drinks!

You guys are much better at working with other people than me…I'd cut their friggin instruments in 1/2…with a cheap, rusty axe! Then move out.

Better idea would be a tarp cut into small pieces and cheap hardboard as David mentioned.


----------



## Sylvain

Kevin,
I would place some scrap under the tarp in such a way that there is no horizontal surface where they would be tempted to pose their bottle.
As for taking their empty bottles with them, this is something the owner can ask for.


----------



## palaswood

Sylvain that is GENIUS! You cant place a drink when the surface isnt level. Make an angled frame, and place it on ur bench so there no place to put drinks. Is there a trash can in there for bottles? Maybe a recycle bin.

So lately it seems many of youse guys are admitting that you do NOT use your wagon vise/end vise much if at all.
Seems dog holes and holdfasts can meet pretty much all ur needs.

So if its between a Leg Vise and End Vise… no contest?


----------



## donwilwol

Hook an electric fence charger to the table saw!


----------



## Pezking7p

> Hook an electric fence charger to the table saw!
> 
> - Don W


LOL

In the entire 11 days that my bench has been finished, I have never used the wagon vise. Then again, I haven't made dogs yet, either. Speaking of which, who posted the pics of their round dog-making fixture?


----------



## BubbaIBA

> ...
> So lately it seems many of youse guys are admitting that you do NOT use your wagon vise/end vise much if at all.
> Seems dog holes and holdfasts can meet pretty much all ur needs.
> 
> So if its between a Leg Vise and End Vise… no contest?
> 
> - palaswood


I frankly find leg vises are over rated…in fashion but slow to use if you work different size stock and a real PITA to install. Give me a good vintage Record or Paramo #52 for a face vise, preferably mounted proud of the face of the bench. For 90% of my work it works as well or better than a leg vise and is faster in use. The other 10% just needs a bench appliance and/or a clamp to help. Of course as always YMMV.

I haven't much love for end vises, wagon vises, or tail vises so to answer your question….no contest.

ken


----------



## Airframer

I gotta admit to using my wagon vise more than any other on my bench. To each their own I suppose.


----------



## jmartel

> So lately it seems many of youse guys are admitting that you do NOT use your wagon vise/end vise much if at all.
> Seems dog holes and holdfasts can meet pretty much all ur needs.
> 
> So if its between a Leg Vise and End Vise… no contest?
> 
> - palaswood


If you have to pick just 1, go with the leg vise. You can add a doghole on the top of it so you can use it as a wagon vice as well. Or, as was said, you can use holdfasts and work around them.


----------



## August

> So lately it seems many of youse guys are admitting that you do NOT use your wagon vise/end vise much if at all.
> Seems dog holes and holdfasts can meet pretty much all ur needs.
> 
> So if its between a Leg Vise and End Vise… no contest?
> 
> - palaswood
> 
> If you have to pick just 1, go with the leg vise. You can add a doghole on the top of it so you can use it as a wagon vice as well. Or, as was said, you can use holdfasts and work around them.
> 
> - jmartel


I like that Jeff


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Leg vise… A real PITA to install.

I must have done it wrong, mine was incredibly easy / straightforward to install. And i get the impression ken doesn't care for vises, but I'm not sure. Sometimes I think my bench is a 300lb anchor for my leg vise, it gets used that much.


----------



## dbray45

I found that I use the tail vise a lot


----------



## BubbaIBA

> Leg vise… A real PITA to install.
> 
> I must have done it wrong, mine was incredibly easy / straightforward to install. And i get the impression ken doesn t care for vises, but I m not sure. Sometimes I think my bench is a 300lb anchor for my leg vise, it gets used that much.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


ROTFLMAO…..Close but, I like and use my face vise constantly. It is my goto way of holding work but it also is transparent, in other words it just works with minimum effort and hassle. One of the problems I have with my leg vise is it has a wheel and my old hands have a hard time getting it tight enough and then once tight enough getting it loose. I understand the need for a wheel because to run it in and out you need to be able to spin the screw. I know the new Benchcrafted traditional has a Johnson bar and I thought about getting one for the new bench but while it might be a fairly easy install it isn't as easy or as quick as driving four Spax screws for no real benefit other than looks. In the end the Paramo #52 was a no brainer.

End, tail, and wagon vises are OK but again for my work there are quicker, easier, and better ways to hold the work that do not have the expense and hassle of the vise install and do not take up bench real estate. Of course some love 'em and as always YMMV.

BTW, I've also seen trends, if you will, fashion in benches. At one time the only "true" bench was a Scandinavian style made out of Beech, then it was one of the FW types that made a great tool storage cabinet, and lately, thanks to CS it is a Roubo with leg and wagon vises. BTW, CS's current bench only has a leg vise, no tail vise. Nothing wrong with any of them but for a guy starting out I think the best option is to build a simple, heavy bench with a metal face vise. It's a quick build and very inexpensive if built with construction grade lumber, and can be built in less than 40 man hours with all the joinery done with hand tools. That gets you on a bench and building furniture so you can figure what you really need. Once you do figure it all out then build your dream bench, It is a heck of a lot easier to build one if you already have one to build on and you could save having a bunch of unused bench appliances built in . Once more YMMV and I'll go back on my meds.

ken


----------



## Pezking7p

For Sale: Oak and Poplar Roubo Woodworking Bench - $100. Price is so low because I messed up and added too many vises/features….I can hardly use it for all the clutter. Hopefully someone will take it off my hands.


----------



## handsawgeek

If you want to see my bench, check out "The Joys of Scrounging" post on my Lumberjocks blog. The title kind of gives away the nature of the bench I use…


----------



## jmartel

Sorry, but the leg vice is superior to a traditional face vice in my opinion. Greater clamping pressure, can hold larger boards than a face vice before the screw interferes, cheaper, etc.

About the only advantages I can think of for a normal face vice is quick release and it's trivial to install. A leg vice isn't difficult to install by any stretch of the imagination though.


----------



## palaswood

Wow what great answers gents. I'm going to start off with a face vice that I already have (attached to my current plywood workbench/assembly table), and when I can afford it i'll upgrade to a leg vise.

So the pine workbench top will get fat reclaimed doug fir legs and stretchers. I'll be putting a shelf in and I'm thinking of using some reclaimed oak for that for weight. I got these long 3"x 1" x6' reclaimed oak boards from a crate but they have severed nails all down the length along the edges every 6 - 8 inches, so I can't really use it for much else without the work of drilling em all out.

I figure I can just lay em together picnic bench style. That should give me lots of heft. And I have some scrap metal and iron I plan on storing on that so this bench ain't goin NOwhere! I'm done procrastinating - time to have a real bench.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Re: the Great Vise debate of '14

On this thread we've often referred to the chapter in Schwarz's blue bench book about vises. It dissects each vise, give you the pros, cons, and best uses. Then….you decide what will work well for you! That's what it's all about.

As a furniture maker, a leg vise is much more useful to me than a small front vise. Instances like this:








I use it even more after I added the cast iron wheel.

My end vise is just a front vise I slapped on the end. I use it for smoothing all the time:








I don't feel a half turn on a tommy bar to change boards slows me down at all. 
-
And I've posted about the unforeseen benefit of just having another vise in which I can get perpendicular to my work. Now I would never give up this feature. 








-
Personally, I feel like holdfasts slow me down and I only reach for them when a vise won't work….but that's me.

Anyway, it's tough to say that any certain vise is "crap" or "overrated"....because it might work great for someone else. We all work differently.


----------



## August

Damn big Red 
I was gona comment but your using big words now,
I have to use my dictionary.

Edit ps hey red are those the shavings you were saving? For photo up? LOL


----------



## palaswood

^ LOL August, puttin Red on blast

Thats a prudent comment Red, I have to agree. I havent really gone to holdfasts since I can pretty much get away with everything so far using the face vice and a clamped board as a plane stop.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mega dittos to Red.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

wrong thread.


----------



## ToddJB

Red, I believe that convo was on the SOTS thread.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Doh, I just noticed I posted it wrong.

Thank you thread police. Is your employer paying your right now Todd? Lawl.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

August- sorry for two dollar words. I blame my college professors.

Smitty and I don't agree on everything…. but we have much more in common than not;-)

Joseph- that's why it's tough to build your "end all" bench the first go round. You might not know how you like to work yet. But I believe you can get close borrowing from the knowledge and experience of others…..and good books.


----------



## ToddJB

Not for the last 6 minutes, but that post was 18 minutes ago.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

log jam

Good man Todd. Hope you bankers hours boys have a good weekend


----------



## Mosquito

Going through the micro SD card from my old phone before I re-purpose it… glad I did…

When Emilie was helping me pack up my stuff to move into the house we're currently renting, she came across that blue wig I had bought for my Bondo pose, and had to do her own rendition (she spent like 5 minutes getting the wig to look right). My bench was already moved to the house at this point, so she went for the saw bench instead lol


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^lawl.


----------



## CL810

That's a good sport!


----------



## DanKrager

A keeper, Mos. May you have as much fun together 40 years from now!
DanK


----------



## Mosquito

lol I don't think she quite "gets it" but she understands. She laughed quite a bit when she saw the pictures of me on my bench


----------



## Airframer

This is starting to look familiar now… Working by myself today.. my new apprentice took the day off (slacker)..

More in My Blog


----------



## Buckethead

> Ok moss here it goes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


WOOT!

You're a sexy beast, August!


----------



## Boatman53

My son just finished post a video of the quick release pin less leg vise. I have to say it is pretty awesome and they don't have to be slow anymore.






Jim


----------



## Mosquito

Pretty nifty stuff there Jim!


----------



## ToddJB

Jim, that is awesome. Seriously taking it to the next level.


----------



## theoldfart

Jim, you've got a winner there. Great design.


----------



## Boatman53

Yea that mechanism is pretty simple and really grips. I will be switching out the hub for a hand wheel as soon as they come in. Super easy to swap them. Hovarter has a a really good design with this one.
Jim


----------



## CL810

Awesome Jim!! But dang man, you're a year late!


----------



## theoldfart

^ same here!


----------



## DanKrager

I tried to tell you guys a long time ago…Hovarter is slick stuff!  You get no sympathy from me! He's done a good job updating the package. Hopefully he has it down to where he can compete a little better price wise. I'm glad to see Jim getting it paired up with his mechanism, but Hovarter already had the leg vise covered. It was prohibitively expensive, at least for me. 
DanK


----------



## Boatman53

Yes Dan, he was able to bring the price down on this one. If I remember correctly about $140 for the basic unit. He sells the handle choices are extra, of you can make your own.
Both the chain and his hub and shaft could be retrofitted quite easily I believe. 
Jim


----------



## Sylvain

Being in competition with this product sold by LeeValley

it seems about the right price.
Knowing the principle of the previous Hovarter vise, I have tried to imagine how I would build the new one. What I have come to is much simpler and cheaper to build than the previous version. 
But of course the devil is in the details: dimensions and tolerances, material choice, heat treatment… 
Len Hovarter has of course to get back his engineering costs and make some profit.

If you are in Europe, the LeeValley product is manufactured by York and cost around 122$ + shipping. (look for "workbench spindle (quick…")


----------



## Ub1chris

This seems to be the place for workbench questions…..
I've come into a little more space, and am finally going to build a workbench. I am still in the planning stages and am torn between a wagon vice and a full width twin screw vise. Which would you recommend? Help me make up my mind.

Chris


----------



## CL810

Chris, Palaswood started some discussion on that subject in post #12531. I concur with Red's comment that Schwarz's blue book details the merits of the different vises very well. If you do not have his book I can highly recommend it as a great prerequisite for a bench build.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

+1 to what Clayton recommends (Blue Workbenches Book). That book is an awesome reference work for sure. My only complain with it is I wish the font size were a bit bigger…


----------



## RPhillips

What do you guys think of using this Lee Valley vise as tail vise? This, along with a leg vise, is my plan at the present.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^That's what I would do Rob.

Except I would paint in black;-)


----------



## Pezking7p

Honestly I think the face vise mounted on the end of the bench is more functional than a wagon vise but requires the use of anti racking blocks or a widdle stick at times.

I wonder if a wagon vise could be modified to hold boards perpendicular to the bench?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ I dunno. I don't use any anti-racking device. I think that mostly comes into play if you make your end vise the full width of the bench. Mine racks some, but it still holds fine.

Also, putting two dogs in the vise jaw helps. Sometimes I use both on a wide board or case… and it balances the vise.


----------



## Pezking7p

Shows what I know. I think it's a more functional vise, but it's a different look than I was going for.


----------



## ToddJB

Why does racking matter? My old wooden screw tail vise and front vise rack a lot, but it holds the wood fine.


----------



## Pezking7p

Racking matters when you clamp a piece Ina racked vise, only one point is in contact and it can be unstable. At least that's what I've found in my leg vise.


----------



## ToddJB

That's what hear, I've just not experienced the instability part. I guess I can see it if you wee chopping a mortise on an unsupported section, which mortise chopping I've yet to truely do.


----------



## richardwootton

Well I cut the hell out of my thumb while cutting a tenon in a cheap vise that racks miserably bad.


----------



## RPhillips

> ^That s what I would do Rob.
> 
> Except I would *paint it black*;-)
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Already well ahead of you on that one


----------



## Pezking7p

I don't know why they let their supplier paint it that godawful green color. It's so bad.


----------



## richardwootton

+1 it's as ugly as home made sin!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya is the darn Czechs,...and their booger green.

My end vise came black. My LV leg vise was green. I just scuffed it and shot it with the same spray paint I've used on planes.


----------



## Mosquito

I sold my LV shoulder vise screw that I bought for my wagon vise before I ever painted it. But I definitely would have painted it…


----------



## TerryDowning

Finally made some progress on my bench

Just about done, needs some clean up and of course a bondo pose.

I give you the V8 wedge powered leg vice with pinless parallel guide.


















Close up of the wedge









It seems to hold OK. I need to do some fine tuning on the wedge to increase the pressure. I have made 2 wedges in different thicknesses.










If you want a strong hold, with minimal fuss. This is not he option for you. I'm sure clamping items will get quicker over time with practice. But a standard leg vise or face vise would be much faster and easier to use.

If you're a cheap ba$tard like me and fiddling with the vise is not a big issue, I recommend this wedge powered vise. It does get the job done. In the future I may transition to a vintage face vise when the budget allows.

The wedge powered wagon vise on the other hand works awesome.


----------



## CL810

Looking superfine T!! Bet as time goes on it will get better and better.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yessir. Good job Terry. The pinless guide looks sweet.


----------



## RPhillips

Looking Good Terry! Love the wedge vises.


----------



## CL810

The French Oak Roubo Project will happen again the week of November 8-14, 2015. They have opened it to anyone. Check it out here.


----------



## richardwootton

Well shucks! If only I hadn't bought all of this American oak! Guess I'm screwed… But seriously, I wish I could afford to attend such a cool event. They should do one of these and offer scholarships.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I saw that Clayton. That's the kind of stuff I would love to do when the kiddos get a little older. Perfect "mancation."

Those guys sound pretty funny. Looks like it would be a hoot.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well the handworks event is coming back to Amana IA next May. I live to close to miss something like that. 
http://handworks.co/

Anyway, they are offering folks a chance to have an in depth look at the Mona Lisa of tool chests and benches- the Studley. Tickets are $25, which I'm told is to cover the expense of insuring and transporting something so valuable. 
http://studleytoolchest.com/

Anyway, is anybody else thinking of going?
Should I be jumping all over this chance?


----------



## JayT

I'm considering going up to Handworks, depends on work schedule. The Studley chest is cool and I'm sure the bench is, too, but I'm not fascinated enough to pay $25 to stand in a group of people and look at them. (Never been much of a museum goer, either) It's a once in a lifetime opportunity, so it's a small price to pay for someone that feels differently.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ohh you big party pooper;-) I'm gonna snag a ticket or two. I dig history, especially woodworking history.

Lemme know if you end up going Jay. I'll buy you lunch or sumpin.


----------



## richardwootton

The handwheels on that studley bench are so sexy!


----------



## Sanding2day

Beautiful… Am suprised to see that shipping and insurance run 30K but I suppose I haven't the foggiest what art is priced at. Would very much like to attend the Handworks event and will do my best to plan for that. Have family living in the Quad Cities IL so only about 1.5 hrs from there if I make it a long weekend trip. May as well see the Studley collection if that works out… Very impressive for sure!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, they addressed the cost of the Studley exhibit here. .

http://blog.lostartpress.com/2014/08/10/studley-tool-chest-exhibit-faqs/

I think it's pretty reasonable considering.


----------



## Iguana

I'm hoping I can get to Amana next year. I just got back from Omaha - 3700 miles round trip - so what's another 500 miles?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mark, you were in Omaha…and you didn't let me buy you a beer? I'm all butt hurt;-)


----------



## NormG

Wonderful looking


----------



## Sanding2day

Yeah, doesn't sound unreasonable Red… Either way will certainly go and see it pending the ability to make the trip and tickets remain for the exhibit. Thanks for sharing the info!


----------



## donwilwol

$25 to stand in front of a tool chest? Want to take one of your kids, hold on your wallet.

Call me cheap, but that seams excessive. Most admissions to museums and gallery's is only $8-$10 and you can spend the day.

The whole shaker village wasn't that much.


----------



## recoveringoakaholic

Here's my attempt at building a work bench. The top is an old 2" thick walnut conference room table set on top of 3/4" particle board that I trimmed in maple. The drawer faces are spalted sugar maple harvested from a friends back yard. It sure beats saw horses and plywood!


----------



## kiyoshigawa

Alright workbench gurus, I have a slight dilemma, and a plan to fix it. I have a 39" tall workbench that is the perfect height for me for planing. It could use some flattening, but that's another story for another day. My problem is that when I'm doing something like chopping mortises or removing dovetail waste on the benchtop, my comfortable planing height turns into more of a sure-fire path to becoming a hunchback. I can either stand up straight and can't see clearly if I'm putting the chisel between my knife walls, or I hunch over and can see clearly at the cost of my back.

Pic of the workbench for reference:









My basic plan is to build something vaguely similar to the milkman's workbench that I can put up on top of the normal bench when I start work on joinery/mortising to save my back.

I'm thinking whatever I build will have a moxon vise along the front on the right side that can align with the front face of the bench for work holding/dovetail sawing/tenon sawing without having something sticking a foot in the air above my current leg vise.

I'm also planning to get a tail vise with a dog row to hold work pieces in place. Haven't decided if I want to go with a wedge plan like shipwright did, or with a more traditional screw version.

It'll need to be clamped to the ends of the current bench (only 4'-0" wide) or held in place with holdfasts. I think I'll only make it ~16-20" deep, as I never use the extra back of my bench past the tool well when I'm doing joinery.

My question to all of you now is what am I missing? I figure if I build this, I'll want it to last me a long long time, and don't want to end up missing some essential feature. I'd be happy if I can tap into your extensive workbench knowledge to make sure I don't miss any important details.


----------



## BubbaIBA

Finished one, starting another. I have to question my sanity, I just finished my new work bench a couple of weeks ago and now I'm starting another.

Long story shorter, I told a co-worker that helped a little during the early stages of my build that I would help him build a bench. He called and asked if I was ready to start his bench, what can the answer be other than "sure".

Here are the legs dimensioned but not cut to length. Exciting eh .


----------



## CL810

Looks nice *recoveringoakaholic*.

*Tim*, you might like Steve Latta's inlay bench buiIt by LJ Tony Trypulis. I saw Latta's at a class and it was pretty versatile. I think the plans were in FWW once; but I could be wrong.

*Bubba*, there's nothing better than a bench build.


----------



## bandit571

Needed aplace for the 22" Mitresaw to reside









Paid $15 for this thing, maybe paid too much?









Takes two people to move it around. aught to be FUN moving it down to the Dungeon Shop.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Tim, I really do not wish to be snarky, but I have a wooden stool at the workbench that helps me overcome the hunching problem you describe. When I'm chopping, I sit. It works very well, and I don't have to build another bench.


----------



## theoldfart

^ same here, except it's my daughters adjustable drafting chair from college.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Of course, I vote Tim build a taller bench too. A joinery bench;-)

Bubba- there's worse things to be addicted to ehh?


----------



## Northwest29

Recoveringoakaholic - That's a very, very nice looking bench. I'd be concerned about get that nice top all banged up. (-;

BubbaIBA - Will this bench be the same as the one you just completed, or will it be a different design?


----------



## recoveringoakaholic

Northwest29 thanks for the comment.

I have a piece of 1/4" hardboard I place on top when I'm gluing up projects and such. That being said, I've put a few scratches and nicks in it. But it's a workbench and stuff happens. I call them character marks.


----------



## kiyoshigawa

*CL810* That looks like it'd be just up my alley. I'll definitely reference that while designing.

*Smitty/Kevin* Now why would I want to go and come up with a solution that doesn't involve building more workbench accessories? I guess I could build a stool too.

*Red* I'd love to build another bench, but between the grinder bench I'm making and the eventual drill press, I worry I'm not going to have room. Being able to modify my current bench with accessories, and put them down under the bench when not in use seems more space-friendly for my small shop. It works well for my shooting board and saw vise so far. I also need to finish upgrading my shop space so I can finally post some stuff in that furniture thread you started.

Anyways, thanks for the advice. I may take Smitty/Kevin up on the stool suggestion to keep things moving along until I settle on the joinery benchtop add-on design.


----------



## Airframer

This puts into the spot light the way the old joinery shops were arranged and furnished. Typically they would have multiple benches in order from working the raw wood to the finished product. A bench specifically for planing and dimensioning then a bench designed for joinery work or two and finally a finishing bench. So it shouldn't come as a surprise that our modern workbench setups are not necessarily a one size fits all application. Hence the need for various bench appliances that attempt to bridge the gap a bit.


----------



## JayT

Tim, also check out lysdexic's bench on a bench. It's a beautiful solution and was one of the inspirations for mine. I use mine quite a bit and it is a great back and eye saver.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

recoveringoakaholic- missed your post somehow. That is a sweet bench. Nice job, and welcome to LJs!

Eric- Well said. I didn't know wingnuts could be so articulate.

Tim- ya, square footage is the enemy for all of us who could justify four or five benches;-)


----------



## BubbaIBA

> Of course, I vote Tim build a taller bench too. A joinery bench;-)
> 
> Bubba- there s worse things to be addicted to ehh?
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I could have used a few weeks between builds but….I must enjoy it because I keep doing it .


----------



## BubbaIBA

> Looks nice *recoveringoakaholic*.
> 
> *Tim*, you might like Steve Latta s inlay bench buiIt by LJ Tony Trypulis. I saw Latta s at a class and it was pretty versatile. I think the plans were in FWW once; but I could be wrong.
> 
> *Bubba*, there s nothing better than a bench build.
> 
> Well….maybe a few things but I'm so old I can't remember what they were.
> 
> - CL810


----------



## BubbaIBA

> Recoveringoakaholic - That s a very, very nice looking bench. I d be concerned about get that nice top all banged up. (-;
> 
> BubbaIBA - Will this bench be the same as the one you just completed, or will it be a different design?
> 
> - Northwest29


Pretty much….a quick and easy build but it's not mine so he may add a tail vise or whatever. I'll get him four sturdy legs and a flat top, after that he is on his own.


----------



## RPhillips

*Bubba* - After that, can you slide by my house help me with getting my top pieces squared and flat? 

I'm still trying to get my top boards flat/square. they are a little twisted and crowned. taking the crown out of a 16/4×8" board without a good resource of tools (and skills) is a bit daunting. Not to mention the grain is not playing nicely either. Really thinking about taking them to a local supplier and having him flatten and square them up for me.

This is something that I really wanted to do on my own, but I gotta get this project moving. I've been on the same board now forever it seems, and I got three more to go.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Rob. Wouldn't blame you one bit if you sought out getting those timbers milled. For myself, I didn't even attempt an oak bench until I had a decent jointer. I don't enjoy milling my hand.


----------



## BubbaIBA

Rob,

There a reason the ancients had apprentices and moderns have machines. To channel W.C. Fields, truing a 16/4X8" timber ain't a fit job for man or beast.

Find someone to 4 square 'em (if possible, sometimes timber is only good for toothpicks) and save the sweat for the things that matter.

I do all my work with hand tools….except prepping, that is what apprentices and machines are for.

ken

ken


----------



## lysdexic

Milling by hand sux.


----------



## richardwootton

It's weird, I actually enjoy milling by hand. Especially when it doesn't require very precise work. I milled all of the red oak for my Roubo bench by hand and I loved the whole process.

Edited note: I also miss the extra excercise, but not all the extra sharpening.


----------



## Pezking7p

Mill by machine. My jointer has earned a pension.


----------



## BubbaIBA

> It s weird, I actually enjoy milling by hand. Especially when it doesn t require very precise work. I milled all of the red oak for my Roubo bench by hand and I loved the whole process.
> 
> Edited note: I also miss the extra excercise, but not all the extra sharpening.
> 
> - richardwootton


Richard,

Once or so a year I'll take a rough sawn timber and four square it. While I enjoy the process, it reminds me why I let the machines take up as much floor space as they do. My already slow productivity would come to a near stop if I trued everything by hand. And yes, for a day or two after I'm buff…or maybe that's sore, whatever.

Every board for a bench build…..You are the man.

ken


----------



## RPhillips

Out of Luck.. just spoke with the only place that I know of that will do millwork, and they said it was too thick to work with…tell me about it! lol

So looks like I will be doing this all by hand…one blister at a time.

*note to self, wear gloves!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Hmmm…..how big are these timbers again Rob? I'm thinkin they don't want to mess with it. Maybe another place?


----------



## RPhillips

4"x8"x8' red oak

they use a belt fed saw to square up the sides, not a jointer. they said the max capacity on it was 3"


----------



## Mosquito

can they not do a partial cut? Have 'em cut it 3" deep, and you can finish the rest with a hand saw or plane? That's what I had to do with my workbench top, my circular saw left about 1" depth that I cut by hand, and then planed smooth. Not sure if it'd be practical for you or not, as it may be more work than just planing it all by hand.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I dunno Rob. Anybody with an 8 inch jointer…. and a planer could mill that stuff. that's what size my bench top sections were when I remilled them.


----------



## BubbaIBA

> I dunno Rob. Anybody with an 8 inch jointer…. and a planer could mill that stuff. that s what size my bench top sections were when I remilled them.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Red is correct. Indianapolis is big enough there should be a commercial operation and/or a local woodworker that can help. If that fails, take a few days and come to the desert and I'll do it for you. BTW I drove to Central Texas and back for a load of SYP to build a bench, Indianapolis to Tucson shouldn't be a problem .

ken


----------



## Pezking7p

> *note to self, wear gloves!
> 
> - RPhillips


Anyone else have a callus on their lowest thumb knuckle from planing?


----------



## richardwootton

I've got a bunch of calluses from planing. Including the lowest thumb knuckle.


----------



## Iguana

*Red* - well, damn. Omaha was a long ways to ride, but I think I could have managed another 20 or 30 miles. I'll be back more-or-less annually, tho.


----------



## RPhillips

Thoughts…

I've been thinking of ways of getting the edges for my top pieces square and flat. I'm at about a 1/4" from being flat, got a pretty good crown in two of the pieces. The other two aren't too bad, mainly just squaring them up.

So this is my thoughts…


Clamp two pieces of MDF shelving to the faces and use a router w/ a sled (if needed) to flatten them.
Use a piece of MDF shelving as a guide, then rip with my circular saw, flip and repeat.
Use a piece of MDF shelving as a guide, then use my router to square the edge, flip and repeat.
or keep making shavings and hope for the best


----------



## DanKrager

RP, keep making shavings. Builds muscle, character and appreciation. To really screw things up takes a machine.
DanK


----------



## donwilwol

keep making shavings !!


----------



## richardwootton

Keep making shavings brother! Get some winding sticks and a good straight edge and go to town! Do you have a jointer?


----------



## Airframer

Shave away my friend. You will be done before you notice and like has been said. The best way to f this away now is to get a machine involved.


----------



## Rayne

Here's my first bench in progress. No where near as good as some of the ones I've seen here, but it'll work very nicely for me. It'll double as an outfeed table for my TS. Took design ideas from all over. I still have some additions to do (like a shopmade Moxon vise and rosin paper holder), but at least it's in the coating stage. I just finished applying Danish Oil on the drawers. Next step is to add the oil to the frame and then install the pulls.


----------



## Pezking7p

Rob, you'll be done with the flattening of that board before you decide how to set up the mdf rig. Set a heavy chip and make some shavings.

Rayne, that bench looks like it could be the centerpiece of your shop. Just needs some vises and miter slots. One thing to keep in mind when using your bench as an out feed…if you don't butt it up against your saw table, stock can sag or warp and hit the front of the bench instead of sliding onto your benchtop. This is a huge, enormous safety risk. Please proceed with caution, as I found out the hard way, luckily without injury.


----------



## merrill77

"To really screw things up takes a machine."

Dunno 'bout that. You'd have to work hard (and long) to get a benchtop as flat and level with a hand plane as I did by running it through my planer.

I have on multiple occasions taken a hand plane to a flat, level and regular surface thinking "instead of sandpaper, I'll just take a few passes with a plane to clean up the milling marks". 3 passes with a plane and the tearout ruined the piece. If I measure wrong, doesn't matter if the board was cut with a handsaw or table saw. I've got nothing against hand tools (indeed…I designed my bench to support hand tool use), but I can turn a board into scraps equally well with either. Maybe it's just me.


----------



## Mosquito

Not just you Chris lol I do the same. Almost always my fault though… being too lazy to sharpen my plane and getting tearout I shouldn't, or inaccurate layout/measuring as you say. Pretty sure that stuff happens either way lol


----------



## palaswood

It's Just you Chris. And everyone else to ever pick up a hand plane! lol

+1 mos on being too lazy to sharpen properly OR worse, too lazy to sharpen properly so you grab the wrong plane cause thats the one with the sharper iron! lol

I'm learning a lot this summer, but most of which is to take my time, slow down and not rush. If I am willing to spend 20 hours measuring, cutting, jointing, gluing and then flattening my benchtop only to F it up on the final stages because I was too lazy to sharpen… well theres really no excuse for that.

STAY STRONG Rob, and keep makin shavings ...and shavings ... and shavings (SHARPEN) ...and shavings


----------



## richardwootton

> +1 mos on being too lazy to sharpen properly OR worse, too lazy to sharpen properly so you grab the wrong plane cause thats the one with the sharper iron! lol


Lol, I just had a little chuckle about that because I've done the same thing more times than I can count.


----------



## palaswood

^ I've only been woodworking a year and a half, but in that time I've amassed a lot of tools but I work full-time so I try to cut corners time-wise and its a DUMB IDEA every time. Slowing down and keeping my irons and lathe tools sharp is probably the best 5 mins you can spend in your shop (per tool). Yeah, I'm pretty sure we all do that though!

If any of you could take a look at my blog post and offer a suggestion I would really appreciate it


----------



## Rayne

Dan, 
Thank you for the suggestions. I actually forgot about the miter slots, but I think I'll limit the usage of the miter gauge. I'll just have to remember that if I want to use it or a sled when I build one. I was only thinking about cutting long pieces using the Grripper. As for the vises, I do have a basic vise that'll go on one end and my shop made moxon vise on the other. Here's to hoping everything turns out o.k.


----------



## Airframer

Finishing glue ups on the top and legs while the boy is away. The temptation for him to put tiny gluey hand prints all over the shop is just too great still for him to get involved in this step lol.


----------



## RPhillips

Eric, that's going to be sweet!


----------



## Airframer

Thanks Rob. I just might be more excited about it than he is but it's all in the name of fun.

The latest chapter of his bench saga is posted

I do plan to attempt to get him to do a bondo when it is all said and done.. you know.. to make it official and stuff lol.


----------



## LJRay

Eric, I'm looking forward to seeing it completed and put to use!


----------



## richardwootton

Looking great Eric! I'm a bit curious, are you going to build a new one when he hits 6 or 7? If so you could use that as an AWESOME coffee table, saw bench, or pass it on to another woodworker with a toddler. Sorry dude, my mind wanders a lot, this is why I need to take my adderall!


----------



## Airframer

Richard - I had played with the idea to make this one grow taller as he did but that was too complicated for the time frame we have. I figure once he outgrows this one we will make a bigger one and use this one for whatever seems fitting at the time.


----------



## JayT

Great progress, Eric.

If anyone wants to drool over a MASSIVE reclaimed bench top in progress, check out this thread


----------



## merrill77

IIRC, the last time I reported in, my workbench drawers were looking like this:










Finally finished the drawers for my bench…all 19 of them!

Sides are through-dovetailed at all 4 corners from tulip (faux poplar). The false fronts (white oak) are all cut from a single (bookmatched) board. The drawer bottoms are 1/4" ship-lapped tulip. Runners are waxed oak in grooves and have pegs to keep the drawers from coming all the way out. Pulls are also white oak, shaped on the router table and dovetailed into the front.




























Looks like LJ cuts off the pics rather than resizing them…the full pics are viewable here.

Took a good bit longer than I expected. Rabbet joints and screws with metal slides and cheap metal pulls are starting to look better to me 

Only one step left - an improved chop for the face/end vice. I should be able to knock that out in a few hours.


----------



## CL810

Beautiful Chris! Great craftsmanship.


----------



## richardwootton

Great job Chris! I can't even begin to stet thinking about drawers for my bench…


----------



## Tugboater78

Been a long time, and probably be a little longer before I get restarted on my workbench build. But I do have a question. But some roundabout first. On my way back from surgeon who fixed my back a month ago I stopped off at Lexington, KY Woodcraft and chit chatted. Tried out some of Woodriver hand planes, they seem very nice for thier price point, heavy and solid compared to my old Stanley's. First time actually planing on a true woodworking bench as well, the store made a handful of benches from some reclaimed SYP. They were nice benches, after truly seeing one and using on in person I now have a stronger bug to get to working on mine. 
As some may know or remember I am using reclaimed white/red oak from a house I dismantled a few years back. I will be building in the Roubo style. After initial diminsioning my top boards are 3" thick, give or take 1/4, if I still use the same boards.

Now my question is, what would be a good size for my legs?

While my back is healing most heavy lifting is out of the question so progress is still halted.


----------



## merrill77

The short answer is: at least as big as they need to be

Longer answer:
Depending on the joinery, the thickness of the legs will affect the strength of the bench. E.g. mortise-and-tenon joints - thicker legs will strengthen the joint (up to a point). The size also contributes to the weight…more is better when it comes to stability.

FWIW, mine are 3×3 in the back and 3×4.5 in the front. Bench is 24×72 and top is 2.5" thick. The leg size was dictated more by my bench design than anything else. In my case, the leg size has little bearing on the bench strength because the tool drawer cabinet is an integral part of the bench, making it very, very stiff. My tool cabinet, when full, will contribute significantly to the final weight of the bench, so weight was not a factor for me either.


----------



## shampeon

Chris: lovely bench. I really like how you used the bookmatched fronts.

The site cuts off images larger than 640 pixels wide. Some image hosting services allow you to specify the size in the link.


----------



## mikelaw

I've been prompted to post some pics of my own attempt at workbench construction. So, below are a few images of my work on a slightly modified version of John Tetreault's hybrid Roubo bench. So far, the only main differences are length (slightly lengthened by three inches) and benchtop thickness (5 3/8 inches thick, as of today). The substantial heft of the top comes from the use of two oak beams that were originally one foot wide, six inches thick and twelve feet long. I cut the beams into eight foot and four foot sections in order to transport them in my pickup truck. I've since glued up two pieces lengthwise (after having completed the difficult task of creating two mating surfaces) and, after squaring it up and planing it flat, it now is 94 1/2 inches long 21 3/4 inches wide and 5 3/8 inches thick. I'll be adding a 2 1/4 inch board up front into which I'll be routing dog holes and that will bring the overall width to 24 inches.

I suspect the beams were previously used for concrete form work, given their surface condition and the fact that there many, many large nails deeply set into the edges of the beams. I removed many of them but had to leave the largest and the deepest driven ones in the wood while working around them. Using this stuff is like bringing home a six year old 130 lb. pit bull rescue dog from the animal shelter and training it to be nice to the mailman. And if I've offended any 130 lb. pit bull rescue dogs, my apologies.

In addition to the bench top, I've made several 5" x 5" blanks for the legs, rails and braces. My next task is to chop out the mortises and cut the tenons for the legs and stretchers, something I've never attempted at this scale.

I've had to seriously improve my blade sharpening skills in the course of this build

While I've used a jointer and planer for dimensioning the legs, the bench top has been hand planed on the sides. I used a router with an inch and a half wide bit to roughly level the top (a la the Wood Whisperer's video on the subject) and then finished the surface with hand planes.

It's taken five and half months from the purchase of these beams to now to create the bench top so it's been a pretty slow process. But, hey, it's a hobby so I get into the garage shop when time permits.

I started setting up my woodworking shop in earnest about one year ago. This is my first major project.


----------



## richardwootton

That, my friend, is some straight up man work!


----------



## richardwootton

That, my friend, is some straight up man work!


----------



## richardwootton

That, my friend, is some straight up man work! I can't wait to see this bench come together!


----------



## palaswood

Posted 3 times.. and its fitting. That really IS some straight up man work!

I was working on dimensioning some measly palletwood boards this weekend for boxes and THAT had me running from the shop, achey and pouring sweat.

Bravo on that behemoth oak top - inspiring to be sure


----------



## donwilwol

that's gonna be a *BENCH*!!


----------



## Buckethead

Been away…. What amazing work going down! Merril, yours is looking like a daunting task. I've got some catching up to do!


----------



## Tugboater78

Mike that is gonna be a beast! 
Merrill nice work man


----------



## mikelaw

Here's a few more pictures.

One reason I went this route is because the farmer in Pennsylvania who sold the beams to me only wanted $40 per beam.

What could go wrong?

Simply put, nails. I should have gone over this stuff with a metal detector. There's tons of them. As a matter of fact, my router bit "polished" the top a nail I overlooked when I flattened the top. Another 1/32" deeper and who knows what would have happened when that bit chomped down on the nail head at 20,000 rpm? Actually, if you do know, don't tell me. I've decided not to use any more of these beams for just this reason. So, if anyone wants to come to Long Island for an eight foot by one foot by six inch white oak beam, it's yours for the taking.

While I'm talking to you people, could I get some thoughts on leg vise hardware? I was looking at the Hovarter VX 20 hardware and using a steel rod with a linear bearing at the bottom but I'm not committed to anything at this point. Something tells me that there's an abundance of opinion in here on the subject.


----------



## Pezking7p

Daaammmnnnnn.


----------



## theoldfart

And you guys said my slab looked big! It's slabosaurus rex.


----------



## Airframer

Speaking of your slab.. When are you gonna finish that thing? Stef has announced he is starting back up on his build so you only have 2 years left to finish before he does!


----------



## theoldfart

Cripes that's not enough time:-( I'll need an extension


----------



## theoldfart

Actually I'm back on it when I get back from our cross country jaunt in Oct/Nov. I'm retired as of Nov 1 so need to have something to do.


----------



## JayT

> Actually I m back on it when I get back from our cross country jaunt in Oct/Nov. I m retired as of Nov 1 so need to have something to do.
> 
> - theoldfart


After you finish your bench, you could go work on stef's. That'll give you plenty to do. Two years for yours, then another two for his. At least by the time you're done, baby stef ought to be old enough to actually help a little.


----------



## DanKrager

TOF, if you need more time, I understand that you can buy more time if you move…
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Now my question is, what would be a good size for my legs?

Tug- work with what ya gots. Bigger is better when it comes to a roubo. I wouldn't go much smaller than about 4×4" myself. Mine were determined by the stock I acquired- a bunch of walnut 2×6s. So, I slapped them together for 6×6's.

merrill- you do some fine work. I always enjoy seeing your take on things. It can be a grind, but…for the rest of your life you'll be glad you made some quality drawers.


----------



## Tugboater78

I have 6×6 beams that will probably have to be cut down some near 4.5×4.5 when all said and done. But i have enough 3-3.5 pieces I could laminate for legs too. I reckon I'll have to see what I can work to best use. I've even thought of using the beams for the slab top. Been thinking in and around this too long, need to just do it. Almost 2 years now since I started cutting pieces.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Tug- ya, sometimes too much time to think about it is a bad thing. I'd rather make more lamination's on legs than a top….if that helps. Lay it out and see what you think.

Mike law- of course if you have the budget for the nice leg vice hardware, I doubt you'll regret it. I've only got the "tail vise screw" thingy that LV sells. 
http://www.leevalley.com/us/Wood/page.aspx?p=41664&cat=1,41659

It works fine. If you go this route, I strongly suggest installing a plastic bushing or bearing in the front of the leg to take some of the downward pressure off the vise screw. This vastly improved the performance of my vise.


----------



## terryR

Chris, those drawers are gorgeous! You'll be glad you put so much effort into them next year…and every year! Love the oak front…nicely done!

mikelaw…wish I weren't in Alabama now…I'd be at your place before noon to get that lovely white oak! Hate to see massive timbers lay around and decay. But, after I tried reclaiming some petrified walnut from our barn…full of 1920's nails…I understand your frustration. next time, I'll invest in a metal detector, another cat's claw, and use the cheap Buck Bros. plane for flattening! 

Red, where did ya score that bearing or bushing?


----------



## CL810

Mikelaw, I only know of one attempt on this thread of the steel rod with linear bearing and it did not work out. Boatman53 (aka Jim) did the hovarter quick release with his chain. See post number 12504.


----------



## ToddJB

> Mikelaw, I only know of one attempt on this thread of the steel rod with linear bearing and it did not work out. Boatman53 (aka Jim) did the hovarter quick release with his chain. See post number 12504.
> 
> - CL810


I believe this is the route August went:


----------



## CL810

I can't believe I forgot August's pinless vise!


----------



## jmartel

CL810, My vice was the one that didn't work out. I will be trying a few things to attempt to fix it though. Just need to pick up another bushing or linear bearing. I got way too many other projects going on at the moment though, so I'm just using spacers for now.


----------



## CL810

Jmartel, glad to hear you're going to go after that again. There are several pinless options for a leg vise now.


----------



## jmartel

My new idea should fix the problems I've been having. Basically, I'm just going to add a bearing or bushing further inboard into the workbench to keep the shaft on line. Right now, the only thing keeping it parallel is just the single bearing. I figured that would be enough, but I guess I was wrong.


----------



## August

Well
What I can help with is just machining,.
But I was actually playing around and found a new and cheaper way instead of the bearing.
I have lots of Thomson shaft 1-1/2
And I also have the bronze bushing
And busing is 4" long 
And it actually have a better fit Than my bearing.

I have this dream that I can try to copy BIG RED joinery bench.
And was planning in putting a leg vise there too??!
If I don't go with the shaft I might copy the criscross 
Like what CL have.

Will see.
I know my set is over kill but I really did not want to bend down all the time to move the pin.

Hey CL
I might have to hit you up with some measurements of the crisscross.
That will be easy to build
Using high carbon still 4140

I missed this trend.


----------



## CL810

August just let me know but the plans with all the measurements are on Benchcrafted's website.


----------



## Tugboater78

One step closer..




































1/4 of the top ready for glueup


----------



## Boatman53

If anyone wants some UHMW plastic for a leg bushing let me know, I have quite a bit. Just pay the shipping. It's 3/4" thick, you tell me the dimensions you want. Send me a PM if interested.
That Hovarter quick release vise works very nice, I've been using it a bit lately I really like the higher jaws.
Jim


----------



## jmartel

August, do you by chance have a 1-1/4" ID bushing?


----------



## August

> August, do you by chance have a 1-1/4" ID bushing?
> 
> - jmartel


Yes sir I do,
Need to know what's the lenght you need.
Tomorrow 
I'll post pics of it I have them in thick wall and thin wall
But I know for a fact they will be made out of bronze which will be stronger


----------



## jmartel

Well just looking on Ebay I only found 2" long. Something longer than that would probably be better. And I don't think it will matter much on the OD. I will need to buy a new drill bit regardless.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, where did ya score that bearing or bushing?
> 
> - terryR


Here Terry:
http://www.essentracomponents.com/sku/PRB-262?itm=prb-262

Same place I got the cast iron wheel.


----------



## Tugboater78

I have a chunk of UHMV I could probably use for a bearing, I also am using the Lee Valley tail vice thingy. How would I get it to stay though.. that's a thought. Will epoxy stick to that stuff?


----------



## Boatman53

Justin everyone I've seen has been screwed in. Square ones have screws in the corner. The round one that came with the Hovarter "screw" was pre drilled for three screws. I don't think much glue will stick to it. You could make a tight mortice for a firm press fit. The drill router jig I had to make for the round bushing was a tad small and it was very snug when I first assembled it, he'd to whack it apart with a hammer. It would have stayed on it's own in actual use.
Jim


----------



## Tugboater78

Ok Jim, if I go that route ill make it oversize and mortices in place with a screw or 2.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Red. No problems with my current leg vise, but am looking forward.

Jim, thanks for mentioning how to secure that UHMW material. I still have a square you sent me with other hardware…but was certain I couldn't glue it in place. I was afraid I'd screw it up by adding screws in the corners, but may try that now…I was tired of hand mortices when I was finishing the bench, and opted for no bushing.


----------



## August

Hey it's that TerryR????
Your internet is wroking now haha


----------



## Mosquito

Here's another parallel guide mechanism I hadn't seen before too (and a neat little bench)


----------



## August

thats actually very neat very nice
thats has to be added to my dream list


----------



## JayT

I like that bench, Mos. The parallel guide is very cool, too. Thanks for posting it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I really can't speak to the parallel guide substitutes, because I've still got a pin, and it doesn't bother me.

Here's a shot of a BC plastc leg vise thread bushing. Just countersink some screws if you guys go that route. 








-
To me, that's the only thing Schwarz should have added to the roubo plan in his blue book. I wish I had a picture of how much that long acme thread sagged with the weight of the chop extended out prior to the bearing. The acme thread already has to extend 6" through the leg, then however far you have the vise open. 
How it looks now, you get the idea:








-
I plastic bushing will probably work just as well as a bearing. I just thought a round bearing would be easier to install. Did this in my blog: http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/40952

Anyway, the bearing or bushing can be oversized, you just HAVE to be sure in installation that the acme threads will rest on it….to take the weight of gravity off. See, mine's touching on the bottom:









The bearing actually spins with the vise. I wish the bearing would have come black, like the pic….but that's my OCD. Might swap it one day.

That bit right there vastly improved my leg vise. A cast iron wheel is sweet too….but not as important as the bushing.


----------



## August

This is the bushing I made or should I say just the flange part.
The actual bushing a sleave bushing of some sort I don't know exact technical term.
But my lead screw is 1-1/2 and the weight of my chop is really heavy 
I think if I rememebr it right with the screw and plates and bearing and bronze top and wood was closed to 70lbs 
And she spins like no tomorrow 
http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf

http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf


----------



## richardwootton

Solid work there Justin!

Mos, thanks for posting that. Every time I see his bench it makes me second guess building a Roubo and go for that Moravian style.


----------



## ToddJB

August, Fine machining there, Sir. You are talented.


----------



## DaddyZ

Mos & August

Some cool vids there Sweet Spin & cool clicker


----------



## terryR

Yeah, August, me internet is back up again…
but I dropped my friggin' iPad yesterday and broke the front, so I'm grounded to the PC and no wireless for a while. 

Excellent work on the vise parts! All of 'em…

Nice shot, Red. You want me to mail ya some black paint, bud? Need to get a side shot of my leg vise to assess what it what with my massive chop. I bet it would like a support.


----------



## Airframer

Red - Too bad the parallel guide on your bench won't allow for this type of set up










That plus the chain makes it so there is no sag on the screw when fully extended. Maybe I just got lucky though.


----------



## August

It happens but my little drop it but still works









Thanks all for kind words I love to modify things.
And love to invent stuff or modify stuff.

So if you guys need any metal work I will try to help.

I wish I knew you back then red I heard you paid $50 to get your handwheel work on.

I would just charge you $49


----------



## jmartel

Plus $30 shipping and handling.


----------



## August

> Plus $30 shipping and handling.
> 
> - jmartel


Damn for got lol
Nice one jeff


----------



## lateralus819

August that vise is sweet! Great job buddy.


----------



## john2005

That thing spins smoooooooth August!


----------



## August

Thanks guys 
I've been saying this I have a few extra nut and flange 
And acetal plastic for bushing
If ever you guys need it.


----------



## Pezking7p

Red, same issue with my vise screw. One day I think I'll do a brass bushing. Until then it works well.

Alternatively, I've considered shimming my parallel guide really tight with Teflon tape.


----------



## RPhillips

Red, if that bearing is anything like the ones that we use in R/C racing, the blue dust cover should just pop right out with a little prying from an exacto knife (at least that's how we get them out of little R/C bearings). Then you can put some of your black magic on it without having to remove the entire thing.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Good call Rob. I might have to try that. Too bad they don't make Bones Swiss that size;-)



> Red - Too bad the parallel guide on your bench won t allow for this type of set up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That plus the chain makes it so there is no sag on the screw when fully extended. Maybe I just got lucky though.
> 
> - Airframer


Also a good call Eric. That's the other quality way to take a little gravity off your chop. I just couldn't see modifying my chop. It's a work of art you know. lawl.


----------



## WhoMe

WAY cool stuff posted recently.
Question on Moxon vises, for those who have made one. And in particular, those who made it with a mini bench behind the jaws, how large was the vice and table (L x W), jaw height and how thick was the wood you used for the vise and table. I did take a look at a few posted on the LJ site and dimensions are few and far between. Is there any general rule regarding jaw length or is something in the 24"-30" range good. I would imagine there is a limiting factor there due to the clamping nature and the distance between screws versus jaw flexing between screws.

Was thinking of accumulating some wood to "maybe" work on one. Wood will most likely be Oak and Hickory if any of the scraps are left. All look to be 5/4 and 6/4. Unfortunately, the last time I checked, all the 8/4 was gone.

Would appreciate any guidance you could pass on. Thanks


----------



## Boatman53

I have the wheel on the inside of the leg and it works fine. I don't use/need the upper wheel because I have the chain.
Jim


----------



## August




----------



## August




----------



## DaddyZ

Nice Video August


----------



## Mosquito

Man August, you do some phenomenal work there


----------



## Tugboater78

A glueup of 1/4 of a top..









Glad im doing the top in sections.. im lacking on some clamps.. may have to visit HF this weekend and get some of those square tube alum clamps..

3 bessey 40" parrallel 
2 bessey 3/4 pipe clamps
2 3/4 craftsman pipe clamps
12 bessey 6" bar 
4 heavy 12" irwin quickgrips..


----------



## August

> Nice Video August
> 
> - DaddyZ


thanks man


----------



## August

> Man August, you do some phenomenal work there
> 
> - Mosquito


thanks there will be more


----------



## richardwootton

Justin, you're talking about needing more clamps, and as I'm looking at your photo I'm definitely realizing the same thing! I just wish they weren't so darned expensive!


----------



## terryR

August, you are amazing!

But…I think I outdid ya on this one…










...gonna be labelled an apple basher from now on…

Already replaced, but for the price of an LN smoother.


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, is there a preferred mallet for Mac Bashing or just luck of the draw?


----------



## DanKrager

The preferred mallet for Mac or Apple bashing weighs about 20 lbs with a long, hand carved ash handle! Fixes them nicely and saves the IT world a lot of trouble. 
Then again, I've done that to PCs too, just to be fair.
DanK


----------



## john2005

Haha nice shot Terry.


----------



## terryR

^LOL!

I suppose the preferred mallet would be carved from apple wood?


----------



## theoldfart

Probably MacIntosh!


----------



## DanKrager

> I suppose the preferred mallet would be carved from apple wood?
> - terryR


Oh the irony of Apple wood mallet! Wish I'd though of that!
DanK


----------



## bandit571

Cleaned out a large area in the basement today. About doubled the size of the Dungeon Shop. Dragged a bench down the stairs and set it up as a mitresaw station









Found room for the new tool chest, too. Had to make sure that the saw did not hit the wall while I fastened it down









Still have to build a bench to set the old lathe on, though. And maybe another shop light. Letting the floor dry out for awhile.


----------



## Airframer

Through mortises 1 of 4 done….



















Stef - once the boy finishes this up I can send him over to your place to show you how to do work if you'd like?


----------



## August

A simple quick workbench accesories 
I just made from scrap.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ahh. The mighty bench hook.


----------



## August

Yeah men LOL

And had to do some flattening today.


----------



## August

Had to make those since I'm tired of sawing like this


----------



## DanKrager

Aw, man, August you've gone and worn all the engraving off the side of your plane! Did you see that plane on HPOYD thread?
DanK


----------



## August

^i like that DanK
That would be cool LOL


----------



## donwilwol

this was posted in the facebook group "unplugged woodworkers". I thought it was worth sharing again.


----------



## Tugboater78

If I knew how to work metal well..


----------



## August

> this was posted in the facebook group "unplugged woodworkers". I thought it was worth sharing again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Don W


Well Don W
You inspired me to make something.

Here you tools I use 
File
4" grinder
And clamp 
Hack saw

Total time Less than 10min
Thanks DonW
Material is rail road spike ( I bet Big Red have tons of this)


----------



## merrill77

> this was posted in the facebook group "unplugged woodworkers".

You guys are braver than I. Only wooden stops and dogs for me. I just can't let anything metal anywhere near my planes. Don't trust myself.


----------



## theoldfart

^+1, scary place for my cutters and soles!


----------



## Woodoc

Just found this group and now happy to be a fellow LumberJock. My work bench was built last spring out of inexpensive southern yellow pine (except the vice jaws which are ash) from our local home center. It is almost an exact copy of the french bench in Chris Scharz' book. I have only had it for 6 months so we'll have to see how the pine holds up. But for now, I am a happy worker.


----------



## August

> Just found this group and now happy to be a fellow LumberJock. My work bench was built last spring out of inexpensive southern yellow pine (except the vice jaws which are ash) from our local home center. It is almost an exact copy of the french bench in Chris Scharz book. I have only had it for 6 months so we ll have to see how the pine holds up. But for now, I am a happy worker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Woodoc


Well welcome to the best trend in lumberjocks,
But you made a very big mistake big mistake
Since you posted your bench in this trend you need to do a bondo poss

Ain't it fellasssssss


----------



## theoldfart

I don't know Doc, looks awfully clean in that shop! Looking like another medical woodworker. Welcome aboard.


----------



## donwilwol

I use wood dogs as well. I may make one just for thicker stock.

August, I envy your metal working skills. Nice job on the dog.

One note (not that it matters) but the one in the picture I posted is round shafted.

Welcome Doc.


----------



## kiyoshigawa

Here is my new grinder bench. It's not a full workbench, but it was fun to build nonetheless. Mortise and tenon legs with a laminated top, and all screwed together in case I ever need to take it down and move it. I made some jigs based on Stumpy's Jig and they work quite well. 

































I've also used the new bench to fix the terrible edges on all of my planes. Now I can move onto some of those projects I said I'd do when my shop was in good working order.


----------



## August

> I use wood dogs as well. I may make one just for thicker stock.
> 
> August, I envy your metal working skills. Nice job on the dog.
> 
> One note (not that it matters) but the one in the picture I posted is round shafted.
> 
> Welcome Doc.
> 
> - Don W


Oh come on DonW
I've seen you with metal stuff

File and hack saw and grinder 
Anyway I saw lots in google images 
Since I had no choice with the top on my workbench 
I had to use that as an example.
But that would be really cool to use in some heavy work.


----------



## theoldfart

Tim, great build, and cool bench. I should build one as well for my wet grinder, another job in the que!


----------



## Pezking7p

I still need to add a planing stop to my bench. I really envy the big square wooden ones, but I'm scerred to chop such a large mortise and make it accurate. A metal one would be a nice alternative, but do you think the round metal stop might rotate on you while planing?


----------



## donwilwol

> I still need to add a planing stop to my bench. I really envy the big square wooden ones, but I m scerred to chop such a large mortise and make it accurate. A metal one would be a nice alternative, but do you think the round metal stop might rotate on you while planing?
> 
> - Pezking7p


wedge it.


----------



## woodcox

Sweet! More room to to rent.








I douched the shop last week starting with the bench clutter. This took a couple hours or so and when I was done I noticed I had just move ish! around on top of the bench instead of actually putting stuff away. So a floating subfloor was needed. Only progress towards actually finishing it I have made in months. I still only have one well used dog hole. Some really time wasted work holding practices going on lately cuz I won't just chuck up a 3/4" bit!


----------



## August

Here I'm using that rail road spike I modified ( inspired by Don W)
On a project


----------



## Pezking7p

> I still need to add a planing stop to my bench. I really envy the big square wooden ones, but I m scerred to chop such a large mortise and make it accurate. A metal one would be a nice alternative, but do you think the round metal stop might rotate on you while planing?
> 
> - Pezking7p
> 
> wedge it.
> 
> - Don W


You mean a spring? I'm confused.

Wood cox what wood are your shelves? Cedar or cypress maybe?


----------



## August

I tell you one thing I just started using this style. But I'm loving it no turning and it has a positive bite.
I'll be making more


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I still need to add a planing stop to my bench. I really envy the big square wooden ones, but I m scerred to chop such a large mortise and make it accurate. A metal one would be a nice alternative, but do you think the round metal stop might rotate on you while planing?
> 
> - Pezking7p
> 
> wedge it.
> 
> - Don W
> 
> You mean a spring? I m confused.
> 
> Wood cox what wood are your shelves? Cedar or cypress maybe?
> 
> - Pezking7p


I'm sure you've seen I have one in my bench. 









It's not a huge deal man. You know how to use a hand plane. Just drill and chop that square hole slightly undersized. Take your 2×2 stop (in my case), then test and plane, test and plane till you get a snug fit.

I think Don was referring to that fact that you could taper it for a snug fit. Kinda funny, mine gets snug in the summer, but if I turn it 90 degrees, it works. Then I turn it back in the winter.


----------



## Tugboater78

I plan on doing same as red, but also skeered to cut such a hole in top, but still have a ways to go.


----------



## Airframer

You've got new legs LT Dan! Well.. 2 of them at least.










New Blog Entry


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ahh just chop a hole in that benchtop you chickenbutts. lawl.
Worst case you chop it too big. Then grab a bigger scrap and chop a bigger hole;-)

Woodoc- very handsome bench. Nice job. I love me some SYP. Great material for the price. And welcome to LJs.

Tim- Diggin the grinder bench too. Your joinery skillz is comin along.


----------



## Tugboater78

Im still up in the air about through dovetail legs.. now that does scare me. Probably not gonna try it, since im not sure what I'm gonna use for legs. I have a bunch of 2×6-8 poplar former door jams from that old house that I'm thinking of using. But I had a plan for some thick tabletops for them. Will have to run through planar to remove the many layers of paint.. tried removing with stripper and scraper on one, took me 4 days to finally find wood.

I found yesterday, while squaring with hand planes for power planing the bottom ( they are a wee bit difference in thickness) that I had flipped one of 3 boards, when running plane across length I get horrible tearout out on the one board. Went through rest of stock I have rdy for lineups and double checked grain direction before I called it a night.


----------



## woodcox

Dan, t&g cedar atop my rails for now. When I'm a lil more dedicated the plan is ship lapped pine rebated flush. 








My last post got under my skin so I got busy. 2 1/2" from apron and 3 3/4" on center. Forstner to start them clean. Apron and about 6" in is rock maple. My long auger took a bite and tried to flip me off the bench and is now kinda wonky. Only two of them through until I get another auger. Stoked I got em started anyway. Going to give Prairie dogs a try in my chops.

Nice work Eric n junior!


----------



## widdle

Wow..Good stuff goin down here..
hey woodcox..Is Red still sending you flowers and chocolates twice a week ?


----------



## terryR

Lots of awesome work lately!

August, nice job on those RR spikes…very ingenious and cheap. But, I'm also afraid of metal dogs and stops. I wonder if a piece of toothed wood could be used? Always wanted the big, square planing stop, but am too sceered to mortise a 2×2" hole in my bench top!!!  I've just made wooden dogs glued into ply squares for stops.

Sweet build, woodoc!

Tim, Thanks for posting those jig photos…got a few new ideas from those already!

Gotta say…Red stopped sending me chocolate a few months ago, but I still love his bench! The matching chop and planing stop with huge dovetailed legs, and crochet hook does it for me! LOL!


----------



## merrill77

Bench mass report:

This thread has occasionally discussed the merits of an under-bench storage cabinet. The points both ways are pretty good. I have this to insight offer: since we mostly all agree that a heavy bench is better than a light bench (all else being equal), the mass contributed by a cabinet is worthy of serious consideration.

This weekend I moved a lot of tools out of a rolling mechanics tool chest. I was able to fit most of my mechanics-type tools (wrenches, socket sets, screwdrivers, hammers, etc) into the center bank of drawers under my workbench. Those tools, along with the 7 drawers, weigh in at 66 lbs! I was surprised how much - I could barely lift the stack of drawers to weigh them. All the drawers and contents are over 100 lbs…and 7 of the drawers are still empty. Current weight of my 2×6ft bench is over 400 lbs. I can no longer move it  At least, not without removing the contents of the tool cabinet.

So, if you are like me (workshop space is at a premium and bench is on the small side), give the cabinet option serious consideration.

IMO, the two biggest arguments for not having a cabinet are (1) it's handy to have a place to put stuff that you're working on - extra parts, partial assemblies, etc and (2) a cabinet can get in the way of clamping to the top. I addressed each of these by making the cabinet somewhat short. That gives me a place to put (small) stuff and enough distance between the top and cabinet that I can easily use 6" F-clamps on the bench top with plenty of room to spare.


----------



## August

Hey terry,
I made that dog just for the fun of it,
And people seem to freak out right away ,
It was something I had to to see if I could do it with handtools.
Anyway you don't put your finger on a spinning saw blade right?


----------



## August

> Dan, t&g cedar atop my rails for now. When I m a lil more dedicated the plan is ship lapped pine rebated flush.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My last post got under my skin so I got busy. 2 1/2" from apron and 3 3/4" on center. Forstner to start them clean. Apron and about 6" in is rock maple. My long auger took a bite and tried to flip me off the bench and is now kinda wonky. Only two of them through until I get another auger. Stoked I got em started anyway. Going to give Prairie dogs a try in my chops.
> 
> Nice work Eric n junior!
> 
> - woodcox


That's gonna be a nice bench,.
What kind of finish you gonna use?


----------



## richardwootton

Have you guys seen this guys wooden vise screw and nut on eBay? It looks like a pretty sweet deal for the price and he says he can custom make them to length and tpi. I might give him a try when the time comes.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/251588898220?nav=SEARCH


----------



## woodcox

August, 321 recipe for the top. Prolly just Danish for the legs.


----------



## RPhillips

Finally got my top pieces all squared up. Since my top will consist of three pieces, I clamped them all together so that I can flatten the tops before I glue it up. My thinking was since this was going to be a split top I would need to get them all fairly flat now before I glued them up.


----------



## August

> August, 321 recipe for the top. Prolly just Danish for the legs.
> 
> - woodcox


Thanks man
Trying to learn about finish ,
Thanks


----------



## woodcox

First row of holes through(less chamfering)with a Prairie dog installed in my chop.Twin screws hold great for this and did not rack. Stoked to just clamp and get after it instead of cobbling to get the work held firm enough to plane.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Merrill77 - Nice work with the under-bench cabinet. Keeping it short to allow for hold-downs is a good design point, and it definitely adds weight.


----------



## Tugboater78

2 halves of a half of a benchtop


----------



## richardwootton

Nice work Justin and Woodcox!


----------



## CL810

Wow! Eye popin work on the thread! Merrill, Tim, Woodcox, August, Tug….. Hope I didn't miss anyone!


----------



## richardwootton

I know Clayton, after my last post I immediately realized I'm unintentionally leaving a lot of people out!


----------



## Pezking7p

Look at all the stuff going on here!

Woodcox, a router will take care of those chamfers really fast. I started trying to use a countersink or a sanding bit….chamfer bit on the router worked a real treat.

Merrill, so many dovetails! The cabinets are gorgeous.


----------



## August

> First row of holes through(less chamfering)with a Prairie dog installed in my chop.Twin screws hold great for this and did not rack. Stoked to just clamp and get after it instead of cobbling to get the work held firm enough to plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - woodcox


Hey bud 
What kind of drillbit did you use to drillthose holes?


----------



## August

> Wow! Eye popin work on the thread! Merrill, Tim, Woodcox, August, Tug….. Hope I didn t miss anyone!
> 
> - CL810


Where have you been bud?????


----------



## woodcox

On it like blue bonnet Dan,thanks.









I wasted 20 clams on a 1/16" round over bit. I used an 1/8" round over that I already had. The sixteenth bit was barely noticeable. 
Edit. August, I started them with a forstner and finished them with a spade bit. I tried an auger bit in a power drill and I couldn't control it, too much to fast. 








Spade bit worked ok but I will try this brad point monster next. 
Also, much respect for you guys doing these with a brace!


----------



## richardwootton

What's the best way to chamfer dog holes without power tools? A rasp or file?


----------



## theoldfart

Chamfer bit in a brace, then a fine file to finish.


----------



## CL810

> Where have you been bud?????
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Short vacation.


----------



## terryR

Sweet dog hole, woodcox!

I purchased a 12" bit extension since I needed it for the lathe, and drilled all my holes with Forstner bit in a 120 volt drill. Then, Lee Valley's fancy countersink bit for the chamfer…










...gotta admit, that $27 bit kinda chews soft pine…I had to follow with sandpaper. At least, the bit extension gets used all the time!


----------



## Tugboater78

Lol Terry when it comes to the point when I make dogholes could I rent that bit?  probably make a fine finish on my oak,


----------



## shampeon

Cheap and cheerful. Makes a hell of a whine when you're doing it in hardwood, though.


----------



## theoldfart

Ian,. I forgot you did that. Sweet!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

My balls whine on hardwood too Ian. We have so much in common.


----------



## Tugboater78

You may get a splinter to compare with..


----------



## shampeon

Red, the support group meets Thursday nights at the Vet's hall.


----------



## richardwootton

Ian, what is that?


----------



## shampeon

It's a 1" ball head grinder thingy from the local Ace.


----------



## August

ok i dont know really where to post this ,

calling on terryR
i just turn this from a 3" solid bronze i wan to make a small mallet or tapping hammer for chisel,
need handle????











































I have a 5/8 thread I made and I have about 3" roughly sticking out 









i want to make one like this


----------



## Mosquito

August, we've got a thread for that too lol
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/42130

Though I feel like you could just turn a 1 piece mallet out of solid bronze with your skill sets lol

Seeing the bolt threaded into it reminded me of the one Mauricio made for our first mallet swap


----------



## August

Mos LOL I could but damn look


----------



## Mosquito

might be a bit strong for a chisel lol


----------



## bandit571

I did get one bench BUILT today..

Had some metal bed frame parts and some…..osb.









Found out that fine thread drywall screws work just fine when attaching thing to metal. Legs have a 5 degree splay. Have some 1×3s as supports for the top









Then dropped a lathe on to the top









Might just work…

Think I should paint this? Doubt if BLO will do much good.


----------



## richardwootton

I was able to get a little work done towards my saw bench. I had some left over scrap oak that still had some live edge, but there was enough usable lumber there for some good stretchers, so I got to work.

I had to rip off the side with the live edge and get it planed parallel to the straight edge.









I got it ripped on what you can see in the picture is my makeshift saw bench. Aka, a crappy little bench my uncle was going to toss.









After that, I had to get back to the daily grind, but last night I was able to get back out there and rip that board for the stretchers.









Then I got them all cleaned up and uniform in size.









It's not much progress, but any progress is better than none!


----------



## terryR

August, I've got one of those Veritas mallets…sweet.

I bet you could sink a piece of wood in that bronze, and turn it…if you really need me PM…


----------



## lateralus819

August how much for one of those heads?


----------



## August

> August how much for one of those heads?
> 
> - lateralus819


Well it's the same price as the veritas minus the actual cost .
So I'm guessing shipping


----------



## woodcox

Wow! 24 hrs of scrolling retrieving my bench build pics I uploaded here that we're only on a destroyed phone. My puter skills are slim if you're laughing. Very cool to see so many amazing and different benches come together(or resurrected)here. I believe the support and perspective given here makes this one of LJ's finest. Keep it up fellas!


----------



## RPhillips

How far from the end if the bench should I go for the legs. Left side will be a leg vise and on the right will be a small record style vise or maybe nothing at all. Might not put anything on the right and use holdfasts, dog holes, and wedges to secure most things.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Rob, mine are 16" from the end. I'd leave at least that much for end vise options.

August. I had thought about hitting to up to make the head for one of these mallets. I could turn the handles now.


----------



## richardwootton

Red, would that handle be a little small or awkward?


----------



## August

Nice red.
No problem ok
This is what I have I have a 12 foot 1-1/4 naval brass shaft
So do the math 
Anyway

Red I need to pm you


----------



## CL810

From David Barron.


----------



## RPhillips

Thanks Red, I was thinking about the same. Without the vise in hand, I wasn't sure how much space I needed.


----------



## August

Hey bud what is the diameter of that?


----------



## August

Hey bud what is the diameter of that?


----------



## August

> Hey bud what is the diameter of that?
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Sorry damn double post iPhone mayhem


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ohhh….Barron's is even more piiiiimmp!

August- I'll look into the specifics and pm you.

Richard- actually I tried one, and they're great for small chisel work. 
Watch Barron use one:


----------



## richardwootton

Thanks Clayton, I've perused his site before, but hadn't seen that little guy. Is it for finer chisel work?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Fine chisel work and dovetails. The handle looks funny, but the control so close to the hand is nice.


----------



## woodcox

What is an efficient distance between dog hole rows? First to second row for gramercy hold fasts in particular.


----------



## jmartel

I would say whatever the straight line distance is from the shaft to the very base of the pad at the maximum.


----------



## Mosquito

> I would say whatever the straight line distance is from the shaft to the very base of the pad at the maximum.
> 
> - jmartel


That's what I did with my hold fasts. I put the holes for holdfasts close enough to the front of the bench that I can reach just to the edge of the bench with the hold fasts, can reach almost any spot along the dog hole row, and reach the base of a holdfast next to one another. Basically I can cover almost ever square inch of my bencht op with the holdfast holes I have


----------



## CL810

August, mine is 1.25" in diameter. Not sure if you asking me or Red.

Richard, yep, for chisel work. It packs a wallop. Fits perfectly in hand a great control. English walnut. He has been at Amana Handworks before.


----------



## August

Thanks CL
Ok cool so the material I have is perfect


----------



## terryR

Oooh, I like Barron's lil mallet…sweet piece of walnut!

Even pinned!

So, what am I supposed to use for coolant while boring soft metals, August? Been using WD-40…


----------



## August

> Oooh, I like Barron s lil mallet…sweet piece of walnut!
> 
> Even pinned!
> 
> So, what am I supposed to use for coolant while boring soft metals, August? Been using WD-40…
> 
> - terryR


Yes terry WD-40 is good 
And fumes is not an issue diesel fuel is the best 
What are you doing bud now you got my attention


----------



## August

I have lots of this and I don't want them anymore


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Clayton- since you have one, mind sharing the rest of the dimensions? How long is the head? About 3/4" hole for the handle?


----------



## CL810

From the back of the handle to head is 3". The hole in the head is 5/8". The handle is wedged and pinned. The widest part of the handle is 1.7". Head is 2.25" long.


----------



## terryR

Thanks for the dimensions, Clayton…I have to make one of those.

August, just trying to cool my Forstner bits and lathe chisels when deep hollowing for now…I have a pretty blue parting chisel now.  And, always thinking of plopping a rod of brass on the lathe…just no cahones lately!

Edit…what are those metal boxes anyways? Might make decent base for mortars or mines in the flower beds?


----------



## August

hey thanks CL for sharing 
im to cheap to buy one LOL
thanks again

terry those are metal bins for screw or parts its nice i have a full set in my garage a


----------



## CL810

Barron's mallet is only 32£. About $52. I don't want to hear LN's poster boys squealing about that! ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

^ lol


----------



## August

> Barron s mallet is only 32£. About $52. I don t want to hear LN s poster boys squealing about that! ;-)
> 
> - CL810


LOL
I have no reply LOL


----------



## August

> ^ lol
> 
> - Mosquito


Your suppose to be on my side mos LOL


----------



## dbray45

Well crap, I made a couple of nice mallets from a piece of firewood (after drying it) and a scrap piece of cherry (for no money). What am I doing wrong?










Actually, that is a really nice little mallet.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Barron s mallet is only 32£. About $52. I don t want to hear LN s poster boys squealing about that! ;-)
> 
> - CL810


Ohhh zinger Andy lol. We're guilty as charged. The truth hurts…..it hurts so bad!!

Ya, I don't think they're terribly priced. I just think it'd be fun to collaborate on a couple. I nearly made a mallet like that for the swap, but I was chicken to drill a brass rod horizontally.


----------



## Mosquito

> Your suppose to be on my side mos LOL
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


lol On your side, but I still thought the comment was funny :-D


----------



## Airframer

You guys lay off of Red.. he's the sensitive type (I got your back bud ;-) )

On another note.. tiny splayed legs are in work..










And one of two hand wheels have arrived (not sure why the smaller one was delayed but there is a 4" wheel coming too..)










I'm just hoping he doesn't out grow this before I finish it lol.


----------



## AnthonyReed

^ No chance of that, you are making great progress. Nice work AF.


----------



## August

Yeah red your a LN boy right lol

Well get read ready because I will pull out my 12 foot bar stock out and start cutting.


----------



## August

> Your suppose to be on my side mos LOL
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III
> 
> lol On your side, but I still thought the comment was funny :-D
> 
> - Mosquito


Yeah it was 
Funny thing was I really had no come back for CL comment


----------



## bandit571

Have a $15 Mitresaw bench up and running









Well, the saw itself cost did cost $5, and the bench was a yard sale find for $15. Shelves are filling up, though









Lathe bench now has an overhead light. Found a socket up in the ceiling joists, and simply installed a bulb. Still need to run some electric to it. Working on a way to store the lathe chisels. I doubt if something like this would work









Might cobble something up for on the end of the bench… Did spend a wee bit on the lathe bench, though. Cost me the price of one light bulb.

( not that I am cheap…..just "frugal"?)


----------



## bandit571

Oh, and as for a chisel whacker mallet









Not sure what turne the spalted Maple green, but









It sure do make a nice 2 pounder of a mallet. The old, lightweight one is an inherited one. The new one IS the chisel mallet of choice now. Trash pile lumber to a mallet.


----------



## Tugboater78

So I now have a 3"x10.5"x7.5' slab.. pics later.

took a set of my WWMM seahorses and removed the top and stretchers, which were 4' long.. and grabbed some 26" 2×4 cutoffs and shortened them to hold my slab and give me a working surface.

Needing some type of tail vice and am looking at this , any thoughts about its usefulness?


----------



## richardwootton

Why are you using seahorses? That's really going to be hard on your back buddy!  I don't know anything about that vise, but have heard good things about the ones from woodcraft.


----------



## Airframer

Mortises done.. just need 2 more tenons cut..










And a hint of things to come..


----------



## richardwootton

I love it! That's really cool Eric.


----------



## RPhillips

Looks great Eric!

Where did you get that hand wheel? I would like to get something like that for my leg vise. The kit from BC is awesome, but just too much dough for me.


----------



## Airframer

I found it on Amazon. It is a 6" diameter wheel..

http://www.amazon.com/Morton-HW-6-Straight-Wheel-Diameter/dp/B00GV2URJ0/ref=sr_1_5?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1410649545&sr=1-5

For a full size bench I wouldn't recommend anything smaller than 8" diameter.


----------



## Pezking7p

Rob, McMastercarr has really nicely priced cast iron hand wheels of all sizes. Also, I think that vise you posted would work nicely.

AF, very cool progress. You make it look easy. Did you chop the mortises with a guide block?


----------



## Airframer

No guide blocks just a mortise chisel and sliding bevel. The angled ones got drilled with a bit/brace first to establish the angle and exit hole.


----------



## kiyoshigawa

Eric, that looks awesome. Thanks for the amazon link to the cast iron wheels as well. I am also curious where you got that bolt from. You're inspiring me to look/plan further into my joinery benchtop addition.


----------



## Airframer

Tim - The ACME screw and nut are from McMastercarr. They have just about any type/size you would need at pretty low prices.


----------



## Pezking7p

Tim, McMaster sells acme screws. As does amazon I'm sure. I used 3/4 for my wagon vise. I might use 1" thread for a leg or front vise, and probably 1/2" for a Moxon type benchtop vise.


----------



## Tugboater78

A slab on some legs, can I call it a bench?


----------



## Pezking7p

Why not? It's as far as Kevin made it.

Planes look happy back there.


----------



## Tugboater78

Well im gonna call it that due to the trouble I went through to get it there. Had to move everything in the shop out to get the huge bench out that sat in that spot. Neighbor helped, he saw my slab and petted it, and asked if he culd have it. He dabbles in some woodworking but is mainly a mechanic.


----------



## woodcox

^I resemble that petter. 
This is what got my build started Tug. 








Taps…..


----------



## August

My recommendation for acme rod size for moxon is 3/4 eBay has tons for cheap I'll find supplier and post it and if you guys buy the same thread as bench crafted I can tap the handle I even made a video of that check it out on YouTube take me no time to do it. Just saying and no charge,
And big red and I discus that.




Here check it out sorry using iPhone .
And for handles grizzly has some good selection and cheap 









I Made lots of purchase from this guy


----------



## theoldfart

And what's wrong with saw horses? 









I'm experimenting with bench height, yea that's it, I'm experimenting!


----------



## DanKrager

TOF, make your bench adjustable so you can change it at will. I'm going to do that someday, sooner than later. It is as simple as it can be and I'm betting will be as strong as stationary legs. To boot, it will allow the bench to be disassembled for moving. It's based on this design, only done in wood. Maybe worthwhile just to buy the leg set from Noden.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, that system is something to think about though I'm not sure how a leg vise would fit into the picture.

What i'm finding is I prefer one height for planing with iron, one height for planing with woodies, one height for bench work and another for cutting DT's!. The impending decision is multiple appliances or adjustable bench or a couple of platforms to stand on( this is my current favorite solution)


----------



## DanKrager

TOF, I've already considered that problem and since the post have been searching for the sketchup drawing I did for the solution. Can't find it yet. Basically it's quite doable, but some ingenuity is involved. 
A brief description for you to ponder until I find the drawing: The Norden design consists of two metal shells telescoping into each other. The shell that moves with the top can have a "leg" attached exterior to the telescoping mate that acts like a workbench leg holding the leg vise "assembly". Thus, the vise moves up and down with the top. This becomes much simpler if the shell supporting the top is the exterior shell, not the interior one as Norden has it. 
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, I think I get it. Since i am going to use a criss cross it seems doable.


----------



## wseand

Dan, it might be easier to get adjustable shoes, Ha HA. I like the idea of the adjustability, never really thought about that. I have a couple of 2×6 and plywood tables with holes drilled in the aprons for my bar clamps. Ah, the dreams of the perfect table. One of these days I will get off my Duffer and build me one.


----------



## RPhillips

I like a taller bench too. Mine will be about 39.5" to the top. Might be 40" - 40.5" if I decide to put "soles" on the bottom of the legs.


----------



## Airframer

Alright folks.. We have legs. You have no excuse anymore!



















New blog entry to come.


----------



## woodcox

Good times Eric! Looks like a happy kid out there with pops.


----------



## timbertailor

Not exactly the same type of bench you boys are used to seeing but for the kind or woodwork I do, it works great. The tracks on the top and right are adjustable to any size stock that will fit on the table. They are also laser etched with rulers to keep them parallel without pulling out the square every time I make a change. The Kregg klamps auto adjust to the thickness of the stock. The new Rockler T Track clamps also auto adjust.

This table top sits on top of my router table for dual purpose use and to save valuable space I do not have.
I too like a higher work surface. The table sits 40" high and is 48" x 32".


----------



## Tugboater78

Legs… non laminated .. 6×6 atm probably end up being 4×5


















Solid oak


----------



## CL810

Timber, unconventional flys just fine here. What kind of work do you do?

Justin the legs look great. Hope your back is holding up well.


----------



## richardwootton

Justin, I was also curious how your back is holding up.


----------



## Airframer

Tiny Workbench Blog Update As Promised

Nice legs ya got there Tug!


----------



## Tugboater78

Gonna take a bit to mill the legs.. they still have tiny broke off cut nails from lathing. Most are gone but remaining ones are stubborn.

Back is doing good, no more pain. Currently doing phys therapy twice a week for strengthening and flexibility. Projected to return to work soon after halloween. The hand planing is slowly getting my upper body back into shape


----------



## jmartel

Don't forget the bench dog, people.


----------



## RPhillips

*TimberTailor*, Awesome bench!

*Justin*, my legs looked just like that. I had a piece roughly 12" x 12" x 48" that I cut my legs from.

I also just got my top glued up and have started on the stretchers. Got all the pieces cut to size and started on the tenons. Got one stretcher with a tenon so far.


----------



## timbertailor

> Timber, unconventional flys just fine here. What kind of work do you do?
> 
> - CL810


I usually am working on drawers, boxes, cabinets, face framing, molding, picture frames, jointery, etc.
Smaller stuff that does not require a lot of clamping forces.
I am moving to some property in the coming months and I am hoping to build a bench from all the contributions in this thread!


----------



## Katfan97

I'm in the process (finished laminating the top) of building my first workbench and I have wondered about those adjustable legs for the adjustabench. Do you guys think it would work on a roubo inspired bench? Here is the one Chris Schwarz completed









I'm cutting the lap joints tomorrow and hopefully assembling the legs this week. If I'm lucky I will get the top on and everything ratcheted down by this weekend. Here is the glued up


----------



## Katfan97

> Have you guys seen this guys wooden vise screw and nut on eBay? It looks like a pretty sweet deal for the price and he says he can custom make them to length and tpi. I might give him a try when the time comes.
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/251588898220?nav=SEARCH
> 
> - richardwootton


I read the next few responses but I didn't see anything that referred directly to this. I too am interested in a wood screw face vise for my semi-Roubo. Anyway, I'll compare the notes from Lake Erie toolworks and this guy and see difference and similarity. From memory though I think the toolworks have the screw, garter, nut, and handle for like $215 (for premium kit). There's a range starting at $145. I think it was these guys who provided the wood screw for Chris' face vise on his 18th century workbench build.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Do you guys think it would work on a roubo inspired bench?

Sure seems to me that the adjustable bench design would rack under any real planing force.


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, the Noden design is wrack proof according to one of the videos he's rocking. The weight of the bench clamps the telescoping panels together tightly, and the panels are secured from end to end with 2x?? stretchers through bolted. There was no discernible movement in a water glass as he planed on it. That's better than most benches fixed. I don't know if I can find that particular video again.
DanK


----------



## merrill77

Properly designed, an adjustable height bench can be plenty rigid for woodworking purposes. I'm not sure it's worth the effort, though.

You might take a look at this bench:
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/showthread.php?t=25831
The builder also did an article on the bench design in American Woodworker magazine (December/January 2010 issue).

I have not seen this one in use and honestly, it looks a little too spindly to be really stiff. I don't think the Adjust-A-Bench bolted to a top would achieve that goal, either. But while designing my bench, I noodled around with some adjustable-height designs and I'm confident that I could build one that's just as solid as my non-adjustable bench is.


----------



## Katfan97

> Do you guys think it would work on a roubo inspired bench?
> 
> Sure seems to me that the adjustable bench design would rack under any real planing force.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I agree about the racking. I guess I was going to raise the bench more for dovetailing and other more delicate/detailed work. This is mostly due to a back injury and poor eyesight. I don't know how else to do it. I've already kind of compromised on the height of the bench (32.5") instead of 31" which is recommended for my height according to the finger/arm length test. I found 32.5" to be about right for planing. However, I think 34" or even 35" might be better for this 5'7" guy with poor eyesight.


----------



## merrill77

You might want to consider a bench-on-a-bench: a little bench installed on the big bench to raise the work for detailed operations. Like a moxon vice for dovetailing.

My bench is a middle-of-the road height for me. Works fine for a lot of hand-plane work and is comfortable for most of my joinery and assembly work. Isn't high enough for detailed work like carving. For that, I pull up a stool and sit down. It's too high for heavy-duty planing - for that I have a 4" high platform I stand on.


----------



## NickTheGreat

This thread is awesome. I've lurked for a while but have learned a lot!


----------



## Aussie

My 100% handmade workbench in progress. It's kind of a practice bench made from cheap construction grade pine found in our (Aussie) version of Home Depot. Was/is (as it's not yet 100% finished) a great learning experience and I'm thinking I might use this for a while before putting what I've learned into a new bench & give this one to my Dad. It's by no means perfect but I must say as a woodworking newbie I am delighted at how it's progressing.

techniques learned/practiced
M & T joinery
drawboring
use of a handbrace & bit
handplaning square & flat

Things yet to be added include:
Planing stop
bottom shelf (have already cut rebates for shelf to fit into)
tail vise and end cap
sliding deadman (deep rebate already cut on underside of benchtop)

It pales in comparison to some of the beautiful benches in this thread but we all styarted somewhere i guess.

Cheers, Scott


----------



## Aussie

Oops, pic came out sideways … can a mod or someone fix this as I am computer illiterate !


----------



## woodcox

Going to be a nice bench Aussie.









Keep us posted with your progress.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bravo Aussie. Look one helluva lot better than my first attempt. May it serve you well.


----------



## Lucasd2002

First post - straight into workbench planning…

I have limited time and skills but hope to improve (the skills part). Due to inheritance, I have a strange mix of modern and antique tools. I haven't spent much time using chisels, but I have a pile of them in the garage. I may as well try using them.

There is a Record 52 1/2 D sitting on the shelf in my garage that needs a bench built around it.

Whatever I build will be woodworking and multipurpose (i.e., woodworking, beer-stand, a little auto repair, soldering station, etc). I have a metal-working vise in the garage also (not sure how many vises I could potentially mount onto this bench).

I have a few ideas bouncing around in my head… At this point, I think it will be 30" wide x 90-96" long (with a 6-inch tool tray on the rear side). I plan to build the base out of softwood (SYP, spruce, fir, etc - whatever is available at the local lumberyards).

Bob Lang, Cecil Braeden, and Paul Sellers (with a hint of Chris Schwarz) seem to be influencing my design thoughts.

For the top, I was planning to laminate/stack plywood or MDF with hardwood edging… but I think I have shifted mindset and will laminate/face join boards to make a ~3-4" thick top.

I went to a local lumberyard last weekend. They had a pretty good price on 8/4 Maple, which seems like a traditional bench top material. Another intriguing option was 16/4 poplar. Nearly 4" slabs of poplar would make a nice bench top, I think. (Other potential options were 8/4 pine and 8/4 poplar.) I realize poplar isn't the hardest wood out there, but I still kinda like this idea.

For the base, this is my preliminary plan (bench top not shown for clarity). The view below is the front left corner. The front apron (drawn as a 2×6) is sandwiched between two vertical 2×4s (so each leg is three laminated 2×4s). The aprons are offset from the top to allow for edge clamping similar to Bob Lang's 21st century bench.










I have the apron shown with two 3/4" dowels through the entire leg. One thing that is not shown: I am planning to add a second 2×6 onto the front of the apron so the front surface of the apron, the leg, and the edge of the top are all co-planar.

The side stretcher is a mortise and tenon joint (mortise would be cut through the entire thickness of the rear 2×4 of the leg) and also supports the bench surface.

OK, what problems do people see?


----------



## JayT

Welcome to the thread, Lucas.

No reason 16/4 poplar wouldn't make a great bench and slab benchtops always look great. My bench is SPF from the box store, so is even softer and I have no complaints. There are a couple schools of thought on workbench material. One side is a proponent of softer woods so that if you drop a piece you are working on, the bench gets dinged and not the project piece.

The only reason I can see you might want to use something harder is because you mention wanting to use it for automotive and soldering. What I would probably do is build the bench out of whatever you have available and then make a sacrificial top to be placed on the bench when working with metal or anything that is oily and greasy. You wouldn't want to get motor oil on your bench and have that transfer to a woodworking project.

My other comments on the bench. Consider using 2×6 instead of 2×4 for the legs, both for stability and weight and also for aesthetics. The sandwich design should work well and using 2×6 isn't adding any time or labor.

30" is probably overkill for width. My bench is about 24" deep and reaching the wall behind it is already a bit of a stretch. No way it would be possible with a 30" bench.


----------



## merrill77

What kind of clamps do you envision using to clamp along the edges? (I'm referencing your comment about Bob Lang's bench) I ask, because that apron will be in the way of using F-style clamps along the edges, with the handles down. You'll have to have the handles sticking up - I find that in this configuration, the handles are in the way and negate the setup. I designed my bench to allow that with the handles down - only the jaw of an f-style clamp is above the workpiece.


----------



## terryR

Nice looking work, Aussie! Mine is sorta simple, too, so I can get straight to the learning of hand tool usage. Pretty bench coming in a few years. +1 to how much a bench build can teach a guy. 

Lucasd, sorry but I'm too inexperienced to offer critiques on your design, looks strong, though. I like the idea of keeping the front edge co-planar! I laminated my bench from HomeD pine, but didn't buy 2×4's. I grabbed a stack of 2×12's and ripped them to size on the table saw. Have thought of an mdf top with hardwood edging for a smaller bench I have in mind…

Awesome FIRST post, BTW, welcome to LJ's!!! 

Edit…yeah, speaking as someone with a 13" long apron, clamping to the front of the bench is only accomplished from the top…NO apron on my next bench…just sayin'


----------



## Lucasd2002

> What kind of clamps do you envision using to clamp along the edges? (I m referencing your comment about Bob Lang s bench) I ask, because that apron will be in the way of using F-style clamps along the edges, with the handles down. You ll have to have the handles sticking up - I find that in this configuration, the handles are in the way and negate the setup. I designed my bench to allow that with the handles down - only the jaw of an f-style clamp is above the workpiece.
> 
> - merrill77


Good point. I was imagining C-clamps (spacing the apron to allow for 5-12" c-clamps, depending on work-piece thickness). Would that be bad form? I am not a hardcore woodworker.

I like your pipe clamp system, but I'm not that ambitious. I was thinking about my Record 52 1/2 and some dog holes. I want to add a metal-working vise (surface mounted), but will probably look into a modular mount so I can keep the surface flat. Possibly, the modular system would also accept my bench grinder. I haven't really planned that part yet.


----------



## CL810

Lucas, welcome to the thread. Consider dropping the apron and mortise and tenon the legs and bench top. The tenons do not need to be thru tenons, drawbored are fine. Add a sliding deadman and you're set.


----------



## DanKrager

Welcome, Lucas. 
+1 to the previous advisors. 
I've been where you want to go with your multifunctional bench. I changed my ways when I realized that I simply could not keep the woodworking bench clean enough when using it for mechanical work, no matter what I did. Now, don't get me wrong…I'm a strong proponent of modular. False tops of every sort were tried, too. Furthermore I found that mechanical work often had to wait on a part, which meant packing it all away, cleaning thoroughly so I could woodwork in the meantime. Then, of course, the part comes in while in the middle of a woodworking project! It was real discouraging to me. 
I suggest for your consideration…build a nice woodworking bench with all the bells and whistles you will actually use in woodworking. Don't preclude any you don't use now, because things change. Then, take a piece of 3/4" plate about 24" square and place it atop four box steel legs welded to I beam aprons to make a mechanical bench. Extra heavy locking casters are nice. Mount up your heavy metal vise, and you are in business. You can move back and forth between woodworking and mechanical work just by washing your hands and changing your apron. This arrangement does not consume more space than what you are planning if you include the appropriate storage you will need to "clear the bench". 
Good luck!
DanK


----------



## Northwest29

> Going to be a nice bench Aussie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep us posted with your progress.
> 
> - woodcox


I think this is a great workbench be it your first bench or not. Great job, should last you quite a while.


----------



## john2005

Funny you all start makin Arron mallets. I was going to put one in with my mallet swap as well only bronze. Why bronze? Cause it was free. My machining buddy who owed me a favor didn't come through in time. Now I have 3 2 3/4" blanks sitting in my desk at work.


----------



## Lucasd2002

This is what I'm dealing with right now (picture from last night).










Long live the workmate.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^You'd be surprised how many folks on here started that way;-)


----------



## JADobson

Wasn't there a workmate of your dreams thread around for a while? My dad had one when I was a kid, not sure what happened to it. My brother might have lit it on fire.


----------



## byerbyer

How many of you guys that bought Schwarz's blue book, bought the follow up too?










I liked the Blue Book immensely, but I like the sliding dovetail legs and such he appears to discuss in this book.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ Byer, I haven't gotten the red book yet. As I recall, I darn near finished my bench with sliding dovetails before I realized there was a 2nd book. Doh!


----------



## Tugboater78

I have the second book but not the blue. Correction I have the blue, Kindle edition.
How bout the front right leg? Kinda purty aint she? If you like em iron stained and with highlights.


----------



## richardwootton

I like it Justin! I really like the checks and stains!


----------



## Mosquito

I have the blue book, but not the red…

*Lucasd2002* I used nothing but a workmate and a folding table for almost a year and a half, and was strictly hand tools as well ;-)

It only gets better from there lol


----------



## CL810

Justin, will there be enough left over for a vise chop? Are you doing a leg vise?


----------



## Tugboater78

Yes cl810, I have not fully deminsioned the legs, looks like they will be 4.5"x4.75" when I get them 4square.

Here is my leg vice chop candidate. Once I get around to cleaning it up some more I may end up laminating another piece onto it. Its currently 1 7/8 rough. If I had the chance id like to find a nearby sawyer and find a 12/4 piece of walnut or ash to use.


















I have to say the scrub jack I got from Shannon Rogers has really gotten a workout. 









Sorry pictures always sideways, they all are upright when I dload from my phone..


----------



## Tugboater78

I have almost an unlimited supply of this rough reclaimed oak. Onlynproblem is having it all acclimated to shop conditions to use on this bench.

I need to get a new tote for the scrubber, the current one is a repaired one from my grandpa's old #5 that got new walnut tote and knob. I feel it wanting to break again eventually, especially under current conditions.


----------



## ToddJB

I think that chop would look awesome if you left the front rough, leaving the chunk out of the left side.


----------



## Lucasd2002

> I have almost an unlimited supply of this rough reclaimed oak…


Do you deliver?


----------



## jmartel

+1, especially to Seattle? My wife wants the rustic reclaimed look for furniture. Not much of that up here.


----------



## Airframer

Crazy good stuff happening around here.

Got some parts in the mail this week. All set for some weekend fun with tiny vises.



















Gotta say that 4" handwheel is darn cute lol.


----------



## Tugboater78

Left to right

Left two are front legs, right two are back legs

Show sides

I was planning on leaving the roughness on vice chop to a certain point, since im using reclaimed/distressed wood for this project, may as well show it.

Edit: may as well show the breadboard pieces for the top. NiceAsh cutoffs.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yes, there is a workmate thread!


----------



## CL810

> I think that chop would look awesome if you left the front rough, leaving the chunk out of the left side.
> 
> - ToddJB


+1


----------



## Airframer

Speaking of chops… It has begun..


----------



## Tugboater78

Some more glueup, one board at a time, on top.


----------



## Pezking7p

I love the rough oak look. All hand tools is hardcore. I laminated my chop up to about 3" thick, it's nice but I gotta say it's overkill, lol. I'm sure 1 7/8 is great.

Speaking of leg vises. I know many of you have seen this photo already but I have to share here. I was so excited to use my deadman for the first time, worked great. But I wanted to work on the other half of the door and I didn't want to have to move that heavy bastard around again. Leg vise has some balls, door probably weighs 50 lbs.


----------



## john2005

> I think that chop would look awesome if you left the front rough, leaving the chunk out of the left side.
> 
> - ToddJB


+2



> I have almost an unlimited supply of this rough reclaimed oak…
> 
> Do you deliver?
> 
> - Lucasd2002


Right!?


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, my vise couldn't hold my work, needed horses to help!


----------



## RPhillips

*Eric* Wonder how many crushed toys your going to find in that beefy chop? lol

I know when I was a kid, I would have smashed any and everything I could have


----------



## woodcox

First thin wipe of Danish is on the top. Yeah to keeping it out of dog holes?


----------



## RPhillips

Looking good Woodcox!


----------



## theoldfart

I would not let the oil get into the dog holes, especially if you have a thick top and want to use holdfasts.


----------



## Tugboater78

> I have almost an unlimited supply of this rough reclaimed oak…
> 
> Do you deliver?
> 
> - Lucasd2002


Would if I could, Lexington KY Woodcraft put out an email about a month ago saying they are buying reclaimed wood. I spoke with the manager about what I had after my followup at surgeon and he said he wasn't interested. Seems hes is buying up old furniture parts and barn beams. Not what I have…


----------



## Pezking7p

Pop goes the bench! Wood cox that looks awesome. Don't put any oil in the holes.


----------



## richardwootton

Looks amazing and beefy Woodcox!


----------



## CL810

Well done Woodcox!


----------



## comboprof

> I would not let the oil get into the dog holes, especially if you have a thick top and want to use holdfasts.
> 
> - theoldfart


Why? (Please explain.)


----------



## Pezking7p

The oil/finish will be slicker than bare wood. Holdfasts rely on friction to hold, and are notoriously finicky to get them to grab. Also, if you've already fit your dogs, adding finish will change the inside dimension and you'll have to sand your dogs or the inside of the dog holes, depending on design and what dogs you use.


----------



## Airframer

Updated Build Blog


----------



## woodcox

Moist again this AM…


----------



## comboprof

> The oil/finish will be slicker than bare wood. Holdfasts rely on friction to hold, and are notoriously finicky to get them to grab. Also, if you ve already fit your dogs, adding finish will change the inside dimension and you ll have to sand your dogs or the inside of the dog holes, depending on design and what dogs you use.
> 
> - Pezking7p


Thanks so much for the clear response. Now that I am converting to more hand tools I find that I too need to make a work bench. What I use now is unsafe as was made evident to me with a recent chisel injury. So little details like the above I think will help me as I contemplate what I will build. I really appreciate your response.


----------



## woodcox

As advertised. They work great! Thanks Eric.


----------



## Tugboater78

Wrong bench, but a bench upgrade, finally was able to invest in some hardboard and glued it down to the mdf top I had installed before. Edge trimmed with a cutoff of one of my lamjnation boards. Glued screwed and plugged, threw some light walnut danish oil on it. Made the grain pop. The top drawer was done jn the same stain to empty the cloth i used. Really darkened the pine ply. Only had an hour or 2 in shop today, so did this and cleaned up a bit. Did some measurements for a rolling cabinet to replace the green drill press stand I hope to build in the near future.




























JCC inspired drill holder I made a few months back from scraps. Been pretty handy.


----------



## Airframer

> As advertised. They work great! Thanks Eric.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - woodcox


Sweet! Glad they worked out for you. This reminds me that I need to make some more of those,


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Is that leather in the groove?


----------



## Airframer

Yep, that's how I made mine a while ago



The leather lets them move easily up and down yet provides just enough friction to make them stay put once in position.


----------



## john2005

^clever dog…

In the for what it's worth department, I oiled my dog holes and have no trouble getting the Gramarcy holdfasts to bite. One halfhearted whack with the mallet is all it takes. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## john2005

Having thought about it some more, I did only put one coat of Danish. That would have raised the grain making them more aggressive.


----------



## JayT

I didn't intentionally oil the dog holes, but didn't do anything to prevent it, either, so I'm sure some oil got down in them. I haven't had any issues with my Gramercy holdfasts.


----------



## merrill77

> The oil/finish will be slicker than bare wood. Holdfasts rely on friction to hold, and are notoriously finicky to get them to grab.

I wonder what makes them finicky for some people and not others? Mine work great all the time…one whack and they hold. I don't feel like I did anything special, other than following Gramercy's recommendations for bench thickness, hole size, cleaning and roughing. I use them in square holes, which some people say won't work at all.

I wonder if wood species might be the variable? Specifically, some property like the hardness…or maybe something more obscure. My bench top is red oak.


----------



## Mosquito

Mine didn't work very well until I cleaned them with mineral spirits and sanded the holding area with 80Grit. Before that it wouldn't hold well at all. now it holds well enough I can just drop the holdfast and it holds enough for half of what I do lol


----------



## terryR

+1 to sanding the lower halves of my Gramercys in a spiral fashion…no problems holding in pine now!

Justin, nice job on the work surface upgrade! I'm actually at the end of a similar upgrade to an old mdf table…Birch ply added, edge banding with poplar, and walnut pegs in the screw holes.  Mine is smaller than yours, and I don't have the bollocks for drawers yet…

...should already be done, but I got bit by a black widow spider believe it or not, and the muscle pain is killing me! Not around the wound, my whole friggin body hurts.


----------



## ToddJB

I'm doing the exact same thing too! Mine are solid core doors with hard board on top, and I just picked up some Hickory to trim. Now I have to do some fancy plugs - gotta keep up.


----------



## richardwootton

Terry, I feel for you man. I got bit by a brown recluse a few weeks back and I've been dealing with that. It's not so much painful as it is inconvenient for me. At least this bite wasn't as severe as the last recluse bite I got.


----------



## ToddJB

Richard, I thought a bite from a recluse was a no-questions-asked trip to the hospital.


----------



## bandit571

I have about four or five such bites. Maybe THAT is why I am hurting this bad?

Need to find some bench space for this little table









Last time I saw one of these, I think Abram was using one. Now, IF my router will fit under this…


----------



## merrill77

My big news for the week: the workbench is finally, officially, DONE!

The very last step was to date it:










I had to unload the drawers to move it around for good photos. The front side:










and back:










The last major item was a face/block for the removable end and face vices:



















And now, in its final resting place:









Finally, just for you guys:










It's been fun watching all the benches progress through to completion (or not)! I'll be sure to stop by every so often to see what's been going on. Keep up the bench builds!! And thanks for the inspiration 

Chris


----------



## richardwootton

Todd, from what I understand that's actually a pretty common misconception. The first time I did have to go see the doctor because of necrosis due to the bite.it was basically an open wound for about 3 months. However, most people bitten experience few symptoms.


----------



## ToddJB

Interesting.

Why didn't you just bite it first? Hesitation is the real killer here.


----------



## richardwootton

Chris, great job and great Bondo pose! I love the roman numeral date also!


----------



## ToddJB

Wow Chris. Great Job. That's a lot of dog holes. Does this double as assembly for you, as well?


----------



## terryR

Nice job, Chris! The Pose is great for placing real faces to usernames! 

Yeah, no doctor visit for me, either. Just bad cramps, dizziness, and a low-grade fever. Will take more than THAT to get this retired RN to visit a hospital. LOL.


----------



## merrill77

Yes - I'll use it for assembly of small to medium work. The multiple wagon vices is really handy for pulling frames together tight and square (face frames, picture frames, web frames, etc)...and for keeping things from moving around during assembly. I also have a lower rolling cabinet (~27" high) for larger assembly work. It sits under the TS extension wing most of the time.


----------



## Pezking7p

Chris, Nice work! You sexy beast. The drawers look fantastic, and what a huge quantity of dovetails.



> > The oil/finish will be slicker than bare wood. Holdfasts rely on friction to hold, and are notoriously finicky to get them to grab.
> 
> I wonder what makes them finicky for some people and not others? Mine work great all the time…one whack and they hold. I don t feel like I did anything special, other than following *Gramercy s recommendations for bench thickness, hole size, cleaning and roughing.* I use them in square holes, which some people say won t work at all.
> 
> I wonder if wood species might be the variable? Specifically, some property like the hardness…or maybe something more obscure. My bench top is red oak.
> 
> - merrill77


I think the bolded is the definition of finicky. I don't mean this the wrong way, only that a lot of people don't realize this before they buy holdfasts, and then blame the holdfasts.

Holdfasts are deceptively simple, though they are a tricky little bit of mechanics. Holdfasts must be strained a certain amount, which applies a certain force on the dog hole and workbench top, and friction (or something similar, it's simpler to call it friction) holds everything in place. If the friction of the dog hole, or of the piece you are trying to hold isn't what is expected by the design of the holdfast, it won't hold correctly. If the compressibility of the wood isn't what is expected, it won't hold correctly. If your holes deform over time or are damaged, they won't hold as expected.

A holdfast can be designed for every bench, but it is impossible to design a single holdfast that works for every bench. And in any case I'm sure veritas makes something that works on any bench in a similar fashion. Leave it to those guys to innovate something amirite?


----------



## merrill77

fin·icky
adjective \ˈfi-ni-kē\
: very hard to please
: requiring a lot of care or attention

If those 4 requirements are considered difficult, then holdfasts are finicky. In my book, finicky is when you follow all the directions and still can't predict if it's going to work or not. Like a lot of software in my world


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Congrats on the bench and the bondo pose merrill. I dig it.


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## Mosquito

Nicely done Chris!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Congrats Merrill. Happy for you.


----------



## CL810

> Mine didn t work very well until I cleaned them with mineral spirits and sanded the holding area with 80Grit. Before that it wouldn t hold well at all. now it holds well enough I can just drop the holdfast and it holds enough for half of what I do lol
> 
> - Mosquito


Ditto.


----------



## CL810

Chris, great work on the bench - flat out gorgeous!


----------



## merrill77

"I think the bolded is the definition of finicky. I don't mean this the wrong way, only that a lot of people don't realize this before they buy holdfasts, and then blame the holdfasts."

Hey Dan, I just re-read my previous and realized that the humor might have been lost between my brain and fingers. I wasn't trying to be a smart ass. I think you're right - they are finicky for a certain type of user. Coming from an engineering background, reading the requirements of a tool before buying and using is second nature. I can't easily relate to any other way


----------



## Tugboater78

Awesome bench Merrill! I got bit by a brown recluse about 3 years ago, ended up on IV, stopped the necrosis quick but I still have a hole in my right calf in can stick the tip of my pinky in.


----------



## upchuck

When my Gramercy holdfast wouldn't work I sanded the shaft to give it some grip. It still didn't work. I ended up gluing a dowel in the 3 1/2" deep hole and drilling another hole 1/16th of an inch larger through the dowel/bench. Now it holds everything securely. I don't think that it as much friction as a slight wedging action of the holdfast's shaft. The upper end of the shaft pushes against one side of the hole and the lower end pushes against the other. The shaft bends/springs slightly and holds the work in place. I also *think* (I have no experience with cast iron holdfasts) that this is why cast iron holdfasts don't work or break. Cast iron is too brittle to spring in a hole.


----------



## Iguana

Awesome, Chris. Drawer labels, even!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Roughing up the gramercy holdfasts help mine grip as well.

I do think they have a bench thickness max. My benchtop is 4+" thick, and they wouldn't work at all until I reamed the bottom of the holes out with a unibit


----------



## Pezking7p

Chris, no worries, I caught the humor.

Upchuck, you're on the right track. The modulus of cast iron is about half that of steel. It can make a holdfast, but you would have to use a bigger hole and design more angle/curvature into it to get the same spring force.

Reds on the same track, you need a larger hole on a thicker bench to give the holdfast the right angle to hold.

Now I want to make holdfasts.


----------



## richardwootton

Pez, for the very reason Red mentioned I'm going to custom order mine from the guys at Black Bear Forge. They're a little pricey, but they sure do look super cool!


----------



## Tugboater78

At some point I need to get a holdfast/s.. but not in the budget atm.


----------



## woodcox

Gorgeous Chris…as you please Congrats with your new bench! Fine work you threw down there.


----------



## Airframer

Speaking of holdfasts… I have also been thinking of adding a set of the Black Bear Forge holdfasts to my Christmas list.

Here is a review of both the BBF and Gramercy that may help some of you http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/holdfast-reviews/

I have the Gramercy and haven't had any issues with them not holding FWIW.

Also….

Tiny wagon vise things happening here..

Tonight I turned this..










Into this..


----------



## upchuck

Red's solution is the one I found suggested somewhere. Maybe it was a suggestion from Tools for Working Wood. Their holdfasts are designed to work best in a hole of a certain diameter drilled into a bench top of a certain thickness. But there is quite a bit of variance and tolerance in both numbers. And as others have mentioned roughing up the surface and drilling a stepped hole increase the tolerance even further. I only have one holdfast. It was a gift. I'll buy 3 or 5 more when I get my real bench built.


----------



## Duckster

Boy, I have found the right place. I just put wheels on mine today. I made the top out of red and white oak. I'm waiting on my vise. I haven't made up my mind on the finish. I'm thinking tung oil.
Has any of you put 3/4" track on part of your tables?


----------



## Duckster

Boy, I have found the right place. I just put wheels on mine today. I made the top out of red and white oak. I'm waiting on my vise. I haven't made up my mind on the finish. I'm thinking tung oil.
Has any of you put 3/4" track on part of your tables?


----------



## Sylvain

Have a look here:
"the mistery of holfast"

Richard Maguire does this


----------



## BurlyBob

I've got a question for all you guys building benches. What do you think of a Doug fir for a bench? Where I live the true High quality woods are out of sight. If money were no object and I had just won the powerball I'd have a bench of hard maple. Obviously those two options ain't happening. So my alternative is Doug fir. Don't that suck? I've come across an outfit where I can get quartersawn Doug Fir. Guess that's the closest I can get to a high quality wood for a bench. I'm still in the "thinkin bout it", stage almost to the, "gettin ready to start" stage.
I've got a couple of projects to get out of the way. Sooo may be in late November, early December I can start.
Lord willing and the creek don't rise.

Thanks for your input.


----------



## Tugboater78

I've read where many people ha e used Douglas fir for thier workbench, and have been very pleased. It is right on par with southern yellow pine, which CS has used and promoted using. I almost went with it myself when local lumber retailer went out of business, but I couldn't get over to jump on the deal they had.

I'm using reclaimed red/white oak for mine and seriously thinking I shoulda went with SYP, the never-ending nails has me frustrated.


----------



## BubbaIBA

> I ve got a question for all you guys building benches. What do you think of a Doug fir for a bench? Where I live the true High quality woods are out of sight. If money were no object and I had just won the powerball I d have a bench of hard maple. Obviously those two options ain t happening. So my alternative is Doug fir. Don t that suck? I ve come across an outfit where I can get quartersawn Doug Fir. Guess that s the closest I can get to a high quality wood for a bench. I m still in the "thinkin bout it", stage almost to the, "gettin ready to start" stage.
> I ve got a couple of projects to get out of the way. Sooo may be in late November, early December I can start.
> Lord willing and the creek don t rise.
> 
> Thanks for your input.
> 
> - BurlyBob


Ain't nothing wrong with construction grade wood for building work benches. I've two SYP benches in my shop, one is over 30 years old and is in daily use. I'm building a big box DF bench as I type.

The first question to answer is: Do I want a bench to build furniture or do I want to build a bench to build a bench. If the answer is: I want to build furniture then go for it and use the DF.

Most of what you see and read about benches is "bling", kinda like exotic totes and beautiful split nuts on saws, none of it makes it saw any better….just looks impressive. Build your bench simple, build it heavy, build it cheap, and build it quick. Then build furniture on it. Don't over think or try to cover all bases, once you've used the DF bench for a year or two if something bothers you about the bench that can't be easily modified build another one,

A good first bench is one with no vise, tail or face, with stops and dog holes for holdfasts. It is very quick to build, it can be done in just a few days and if built out of big box DF or SYP it can be build for less than a couple of hundred USD. If later you find you can't live without a face vise or tail vise it is easy to add an English QR vise. And if there is bench bling i.e. leg vises, wagon vises, or such that you feel you can't work without then when you build your bench with all the bling you have a bench to build it on. It's much easier to build a bench if you already have one , a chicken or egg thing.

ken


----------



## jmartel

> I ve got a question for all you guys building benches. What do you think of a Doug fir for a bench? Where I live the true High quality woods are out of sight. If money were no object and I had just won the powerball I d have a bench of hard maple. Obviously those two options ain t happening. So my alternative is Doug fir. Don t that suck? I ve come across an outfit where I can get quartersawn Doug Fir. Guess that s the closest I can get to a high quality wood for a bench. I m still in the "thinkin bout it", stage almost to the, "gettin ready to start" stage.
> I ve got a couple of projects to get out of the way. Sooo may be in late November, early December I can start.
> Lord willing and the creek don t rise.
> 
> Thanks for your input.
> 
> - BurlyBob


Should be fine.

If you have a planer, you can pick up some rough Alder, Ash, or Sugar Maple from people on craigslist fairly easily in the NW. Something to consider. I have seen all 3 for only $1.50/bdft each. I found my Red Oak on craigslist for the same price.


----------



## BubbaIBA

> Roughing up the gramercy holdfasts help mine grip as well.
> 
> I do think they have a bench thickness max. My benchtop is 4+" thick, and they wouldn t work at all until I reamed the bottom of the holes out with a unibit
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Red,

I think some of the problems with holdfasts can be traced to different woods, top thickness and size of dog hole, no one of the factors always being the problem. On my 100mm thick SYP bench the TFWW holdfasts would only hold in some of the dog holes until I relieved the bottom by about 25mm then they held fine in all the holes.

On my beech bench also 100mm thick but drilled with a different auger I'm getting the best hold I've ever had from holdfasts. Same thickness bench top within a silly mm or two, same holdfasts, different result. The question is: Is it the wood or is it a slightly different dog hole because of the different auger, both were 3/4".

Who knows and at this point who cares, they work on both benches.

ken


----------



## woodcox

I was told Dfir, once dry is hard to beat for stability. My leg assemblies and main center section of my top are Dfir. I added about seven inches of hardwood to the front and back sides along with hard wood vise chops. Just keep adding wood to get mass. I ended up with fir, maple, walnut and cherry. I love my Frankenbench!


----------



## BubbaIBA

One more thing to add about holdfasts. Smith made holdfasts do not always work right out of the box and they may cost much more than the ones from TFWW. While a smith made holdfast can be impressive, they don't work any better nor more consistently than the TFWW ones.

I'm back to my saw metaphor, I have a number of Bad Axe saws, they are works of art but they in fact do not saw any better than some of my old restored Disston saws. Do I like sawing with the Bad Axe saws, you bet and I like looking at them as well. Smith made holdfasts are the same, they can work great and be wonderful to feel and look at but if you just want a holdfast to hold work the TFWW ones work as well as any.

BTW, I ordered a Bad Axe large Tenon saw with all the bling to use in last bench build. I ordered a little late, it came a couple of days ago, the bench was finished a month or so ago. It sure is pretty and I expect it will be nice to have for the next build.

ken


----------



## woodcox

Ok, so I prolly wiped on too much Danish the other day on my top and didn't wipe off the excess. Tacky bench for two days. Last night I scrubbed with mineral spirits in hopes to remedy. No progress made. Still tacky tonight like spirits didn't help. 
Any ideas before I make it worse? Something more caustic perhaps?

My idiotic thinking was a couple coats of watco's then poly or 321 to finish. 
To paraphrase: I'm inept with anything wood and liquid together. 
Ed: going to scrub with spirits once more and wait a few days…I'll follow the label next time


----------



## widdle

Congratulations on the Bench woodcox..Lookin beefy..I've used too much danish oil and waited too long to remove a couple times..My thoughts are elbow grease and wood shavings and sawdust.


----------



## dbray45

If you want to get the excess danish oil off faster, put a fair amount of mineral spirits on the bench and use a card scraper to scrape it off. If the scraper is sharp, it will only take a few minutes to get the excess off, then wipe it down and let dry. If you are in a place where it is still warm and sun will be out - and can take the piece into the sun light, do so. The heat, moisture, and wide spectrum (sun) light will cure an oil based finish much faster than sitting in the shop. It is not about drying, it is about curing - two different things.

Next time, try 30% mineral spirits, 30% tung oil, and 30% oil based polyurethane - it will be thin, I use a foam brush or cloth to apply, keep the coats very thin - dry overnight or put it outside in the sun for an afternoon. 2 coats of this, wet sand with 600 grit using mineral spirits as the wet between coats, then 2 coats of the poly thinned 20%. The idea is to fill the pores of the wood and still keep the finish very thin.

Alter this as you see fit and as your needs change.


----------



## merrill77

> I ve got a question for all you guys building benches. What do you think of a Doug fir for a bench?


IMO, the kind of wood you use is largely irrelevant, other than personal taste and budget. Some will argue that a softer wood has a significant advantage: when you drop that curved, veneered, inlayed and hand dovetailed drawer front onto your bench, which one would you like to come away with the dent? I'll choose the bench every time. So while I would have preferred a bench from a softer wood, mine is red oak because I got a boatload of it real cheap. When the bench was nearly done, I came across a trailer-load full of tulip (aka yellow poplar) for $1/bdft. Had I not already been nearly done, I would have used that.

Things I think are more important than the wood species:
- moisture content: get the wood acclimated to its surroundings before you start the build
- quality: clear, straight-grained wood is easier and more predictable to work with (though may be irrelevant once the bench is done)
- design: will the design satisfy your goals? will it be structurally sound?
- joinery: see above

Chris


----------



## JayT

Christopher Schwarz has the best advice for wood for a workbench.

"The material should be cheap, easy to get, heavy (if possible), dry-ish and heavy (if possible)."

If Doug Fir is what you have available that is cheap and dry, go for it. Not the heaviest, but you can make up for some of that by beefing up the size of the base and using a bit thicker top or building in some storage cabinets as others have done. My bench is SPF construction lumber and I've never found any instance where I couldn't do something on it because it wasn't hardwood.


----------



## Mosquito

+1 to the whatever you can find cheap. I want to build a larger bench once I have more shop space, and am thinking of doing construction 2×4's or 2×6's cut down for it, in the interest of cost.

My current bench is red oak, and I like it. I used red oak (and hard maple for the endcaps and tool well frame) because I found a deal on a 10" wide 12/4 slab that was 4' long, which was the perfect size for what I wanted at the time. The hard maple was also only $20 for an 8'10" 2×4 of it.


----------



## john2005

+1 for the scraper trick Woodcox. I also recommend the sun. The heat seams to thin the oil and open the wood pores. I wouldn't do both at the same time though.

+? For DFir being good bench wood. Stringy to work, but nice once it's done.


----------



## PaulSiegel

Long time Lurker, first time poster.

Speaking of construction lumber, I stopped by the Big Box near me after work and bought enough SYP to make the Take Down Nicholson workbench that Schwartz recently made.

I've got the legs glued up (love using screws as clamps) and the top glued up. Tomorrow I'm hoping to get the base put together and at least the reinforcing put on the underside of the top.


----------



## JayT

Welcome, Paul. Since you are a first time poster, we need to clue you in to the thread rules:

#1 Pics are mandatory. There are some here that haven't advanced to books that don't have pictures, yet.

#2 You must finish the bench before chrisstef finishes his. By my reckoning, you only have 12 years to do that. Give or take a year or five.

#3 When you finish before stef, you are obligated to give him loads of crap.

That's it. Carry on.

Edit: Just noticed that this is the 13,000th post on the thread. How appropriate that our favorite topic got worked in.


----------



## ToddJB

JayT forgot rule #4 that when your bench is complete you pose atop said bench in a "bondo" fashion.


----------



## CL810

> By my reckoning, you only have 12 years to do that. Give or take a year or five.
> 
> - JayT


Oh *SNAP!*


----------



## Tugboater78

> JayT forgot rule #4 that when your bench is complete you pose atop said bench in a "bondo" fashion.
> 
> - ToddJB


Aye

Anyone wanna come remove deeply imbedded brittle nails from my Benchtop boards so I can finish? Every time I look at them I shake my head and do something else. Burnt out on removing them…


----------



## merrill77

Someone refresh my memory - where did the 'bondo' name come from?


----------



## Airframer

> Someone refresh my memory - where did the bondo name come from?
> 
> - merrill77


It originated with LJ user bondogaposis who posed on his bench when he finished it up..












It was a parody of this pic which was circulating in the smackdown thread for a while..










From that point on it just sorta took on a life of it's own and became a rite of passage so to speak for a bench completion.


----------



## merrill77

I remember both pics, but the bondo reference eluded me. Thanks!


----------



## richardwootton

I still love Roubo girl… Maybe she's become single and wants to pose on a new bench??


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Only now have I noticed the interesting end vise chop. Must have been looking at other things.


----------



## richardwootton

There's an end vise? I was distracted by a different vice…

But seriously, I don't think I've ever seen a leg vise handle that long. Is it supposed to be for greater leverage?


----------



## merrill77

The end-vice handle is equally long. If you need that big of a handle to hold your part in place, perhaps a different clamping strategy is called for?


----------



## ToddJB

The leg vice handle needs to be that long to fight the friction of the leg vice rubbing the concrete floor. Look at the fresh spot of floor between the chop and the leg.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^He said, "fight the friction of the leg" ....and "look at the fresh spot."

heh, heh.


----------



## Airframer

You don't think the owner of that bench is trying to convince himself of something do ya?


----------



## widdle

the vice handle was absolutely her call, and she looks like she runs the show in that shop..What's up with her ?


----------



## theoldfart

maybe trouble with racking?


----------



## woodcox

I put in a serious session of wet spirits sanding with a few fine sanding sponges. Rainy days here lately so no chance of curing out side. I think I have finally knocked it back enough to start this ish over again. Dog holes were definitely a frothy Santorum. I thought I was so close to calling it then the complete muppet in me popped in for supper.


----------



## PaulSiegel

And we're at 95%. Who said this workbench stuff was hard? How long has stef been working on his now? 5 years?

Not too shabby for a rainy Saturday.

Still need to make a crochet, make a decision about a lower shelf, figure out a finish, and do some leveling and flattening.


----------



## Airframer

Tiny wagon vise is nearly done


----------



## DanKrager

That looks really cool, AF. I dig "miniatures". What an heirloom! Not too far off is the bondo pose!

Have you been taking photography tips from BRK? Just sayin'...
DanK


----------



## richardwootton

That leg vise looks like it's bigger than Ian's! Very cool buddy.


----------



## Pezking7p

Wood cox, perhaps I missed it but why did you sand off your finish?

Paul shows up with a nearly complete bench. Don't see a ton of English benches in here, looks great.

Mini bench is so cute.

Speaking of Ian, he's been missing for a while. Wasn't he moving for his wife's new job?


----------



## richardwootton

Dan, for some reason I thought that was Terry that was moving, but I could be way off base. Or was it RG? Hell, I can't remember. If my memory is starting to fade at the ripe old age if 31, then I'm screwed!


----------



## woodcox

Dan, I didn't wipe off excess of a too heavy coat a oil. As if my bench wasn't tacky enough… 
Listening to advice and direction this time around though.


----------



## ToddJB

Pez and Richard, they're both moving and both because of their wives jobs.


----------



## richardwootton

Todd for the win! Dan and I just won consolation at district.


----------



## dbray45

Woodcox - In the future, if you don't have any card scrapers, sharpen a wide putty knife the same as a card scraper and use it the same way, it will work as well.


----------



## August

not really work bench but its a good accessory for it


----------



## jmartel

You making honey?


----------



## August

> You making honey?
> 
> - jmartel


Haha Jeff
This sucks I have lots of build but I can't post from iPhone 
That's my new mallet


----------



## Sprung

I've been following this thread for a while, but don't know why I haven't posted in here - especially since I'm in the process of building a bench.

We moved in March. Before our move my shop was in the basement and I had two horrible benches that racked if you even looked at them funny. Neither had a vise and I built them both with whatever materials I could scrounge - had less than $20 total into the two benches. I was more than happy to leave them behind when we moved.

Now my shop is our one car garage. The only work surface I had is/was my lightweight outfeed table. That meant a bench build!

Not having a jointer or a planer, I had to pass up on a Craigslist special of $1/BF oak. Plus, my wife knew I needed a bench to really get to working on any of the great number of projects she's got lined up for me. So, 2×4's and 4×4's and plywood from Menards it is.

Because I really needed to get my shop set up, I intended this to be a quick build. Someday I'll build my forever bench, but until then, this one will suit me quite well.

I started this build back in June and then kinda got burned out on getting the shop set up because I wanted to make something - so since I had just gotten a used lathe, I made a bunch of pens. Now it's back to the bench build and then on to some furniture projects.

June:

After scribbling a design and some dimensions down on scrap paper, I started cutting up wood.










Assembled the base. Glue and lag screws. Lag screws reinforced with dowels where they anchor into end grain.










I don't have a picture of this step, but the top is 3 layers of 3/4" 11-layer plywood laminated together. Want this thing to have some weight to it! Top is 24"x 8' before edging. Originally it was going to be cut down to 7', but I redesigned how my shop will eventually be laid out to permit me to have an 8' long bench - not an easy feat for a one car garage!

September:

Trimmed out the top with poplar. Glue and, yes, screws. Trimmed the edging flush with the top with a #4 - my first time really using a hand plane and it was awesome - especially pulling off a good number of 8' long shavings!










In the last pic you can see the vise I'll be using - disassembled to clean the oil off it and then wax the bare metal surfaces for protection. I've started to fit the vise, but don't have a picture of that yet. I'm currently waiting on a forstner bit in a size I needed, but didn't have, to be delivered so I can continue the vise install. Jaw is going to be walnut, since that's the only thing I currently have in 8/4 thickness.

Once the vise is in place, I'll attach the top, put a shelf in place on the stretchers, put a finish on it, and put it to work. I eventually plan to put drawers in there for more storage, but that's going to have to wait until I tackle some honey-do projects.


----------



## Sprung

Airframer - I've been reading your blog posts on building your son's bench. Seriously awesome! I've got a 22 month old son who loves following me out to the shop and one of my upcoming projects is a mini bench for him - though his won't be as sweet as yours.

August - That brass mallet is beyond sweet. Awesome work! Wish I had the materials and the equipment to make something like that.


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## Tugboater78

All in due time matt, that bench should do you well until you get time and materials for another! My bench build is "petal to the metal, hard braking" one day I shall finish, too many other projects going on. Trying make up for last 5 months of baxk injury, being all layed up.


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## DanKrager

Welcome to the slide, Sprung. This whole site is a bunch of enablers giving each other inspiration, encouragement, and a hard time. 
You've done a bad thing, though. There's no such thing as a temporary bench. Mine is 40 years old. While various postings almost push me to do something better, it ends up a modification to the original. So is it a new bench if the legs are remodeled, the top is replaced, accessories added? Right. I have Abraham Lincoln's original axe, too. The head has been replaced four times and the handle 27 times, but it's all "original"!
Seriously, even if you're thinking temporary, you've built a fine bench that will enable many happy shop hours. Three layers of 11 ply was inspired…no warping, no flattening. A few dog holes and you'll be set for a long time.
Congratulations, and thank you for sharing. Needs bondo pose…it's a requirement…a right of passing. 
DanK


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## BigRedKnothead

Matt- thanks for sharing your build. Look great man.


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## Tugboater78

Wall bench continues..

I painted some more walls too..


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## ToddJB

^ Very nice, Tug.


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## timbertailor

> Has any of you put 3/4" track on part of your bench?
> 
> - Duckster


See my assembly table. Not the same design but I did use track with Kregg and Rockler clamps. VERY handy.


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## Tugboater78

Though the plywood was labeled as, and was more oaklike than the birch plywood at the big box.. the left bank surely doesnt look like oak..

Oh well.. using up scrap, and it doesnt look too bad.


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## terryR

Matt, Thanks for sharing your bench! I think we need more ply surfaces to push the envelope of flatness…or experimentation. Although, I agree with DanK…that is no temporary bench, my friend.  I bet you are shoving her around the shop for decades to come…

Justin, nice drawers, and Thanks for your help!

Here is my sharpening station, roughly 4×5', recently restored. Top surface WAS 2 layers of mdf that have slowly deformed due to moisture…even had mold growing under my DMT's! yuck.










The underpinning and legs are junk…half pressure treated 4×4's and half spalted 2×4's…so the plan is to leave this guy behind when we move shortly. However, I sure need the work space in the meantime! So…I added 1/2" of baltic birch ply with a ton of glue and a few screws. Poplar cut for edge-banding and rabbeted together. After the glue cured, I pulled the screws and turned some walnut plugs to fit the holes on the top surface…gotta protect those drill bits and chisels!

Then a couple of coats of Minwax poly since it was in the shop and has to be used, moved, or thrown away. I decided on the darker color for the border to hide a few gaps between the ply and banding. And a light coat of briwax to blend all my brush marks together. 

I also added a quick upper shelf to store long objects, and a couple of tupperware boxes to keep misc stuff with other misc stuff, and off the floor.

Hopefully, the top looks so nice, I'll do a better job of cleaning up after myself, and this surface won't rot. That's the plan…


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## Sprung

Thanks for the comments on my bench, guys. Yeah, the "temporary" bench comment was a little sarcastic - it'll be seeing a long life of use! Someday I do want to build a bench entirely out of whatever hardwood is cheaply available at the time, but I plan for this bench to last me a long while - and to still see use whenever that other bench is built years down the road. (Hopefully by then I'll have enough shop space to support having two benches in the shop.) As for now, I'm going to love having a flat surface to work on, a sturdy bench, and a vise. A sturdy bench and a vise are thing I haven't had yet and I'm really looking forward to it. I'm still up in the air about doing some sort of end vise, but I can always add something later on if I find that I'd use it in the course of breaking in my bench.

Justin - I really like that wall bench. Coming together real nice. I need to make something like eventually.


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## Tugboater78

Top portion being started…


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## ToddJB

Tug, you're a machine. You just started building that bench 25 minutes ago, didn't ya?


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## JayT

I think he sub-contracted Don's elves for that bench.


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## Tugboater78

Future build in the rough


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## August

Sprung haven't seen your name till lately in this thread.
Welcome.
Nice build you got going there.
And I wish I can do woodworking like you guys.


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## BurlyBob

Thanks guys for confirming what I'd thought all along. What ever I decide in the way of a bench it'll kinda be like my handle, 'Burly', built by Bob. I always seem to go, to big, to long, to heavy or any combination of the three.
I'm still in the "thinking, planning and design stages. It could actually be spring before I make the jump.

Thanks again.


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## Sprung

> Sprung haven t seen your name till lately in this thread.
> Welcome.
> Nice build you got going there.
> And I wish I can do woodworking like you guys.
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Thanks for the welcome, August.
I guess I just lurk too much and post not enough. I'm just a hack wishing he could do work like I see posted by everyone else here. Looking at your projects you've posted, I'd say you do amazing work and go ahead and call yourself a woodworker - with pride! Besides, it's not about being the best or being as good as the next guy - it's about learning along the way, pushing ourselves with each project, and continually growing our skillset and doing the best we can. (Gotta admit, I feel even more like a hack after looking over your projects, haha!)


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## Tugboater78

I have no skills and most of the guys, and gals, on this site make me feel inadequate when it comes to woodworking. But they also feed the ego a bit and make me push harder to improve!










New blog post put up.

A decent days work, on a shop project, I really need to get a few non paying commissions done so maybe I can get some paying one's.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You re-did the outlets, right?

Bench set up looks awesome.


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## Tugboater78

Aye smitty.. I need to rewire them. Didnt like the way I put them in at first, but it worked for a while. Will be installing a subpanel soon once I finish house panel so going to wire up a full circuit without wiring running horizontally.

Thanks, already makes me feel bwtter when I walk in the shop, before I was walking in constantly telling myself I need to do something about it.


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## dbray45

As you make your storage, you build a lot of skills and knowledge in what you are doing. I use drawers that I made incorrectly or the wrong sizes and put them on the wall for shelves. Helps to remind me of what not to do.


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## Sprung

Friday is my one day off each week, and I usually get at least some shop time during the course of the day. Today I mounted the vise. Took some fiddling around to get everything to line up and fit, but I got it. Also gave the bottom of the top a quick sanding and a couple coats of danish oil.










Next step is to get the top set on something else (either outfeed table or blocks on the floor) so I can attach the top - then flip it upright and work on the last few things. And then put it to work for the next few decades!

After that, a mini-bench for my nearly two year old son, who loves being out in the shop with me.


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## Lucasd2002

I picked up some 8/4 poplar after work today for making my workbench top (planning to face join them for a 4"+ thick top).

Would it be strange to have a tool tray from a different wood as part of the top? I guess I can buy more poplar later.

I plan to make the base out of SYP (I already started stockpiling decent 2×12s that I plan to rip in half and plane down).


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## Tugboater78

It wouldn't hurt Lucas, would be depending on how you want it to look.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Could always edge-band the tool tray surround with poplar.

The base of trays on vintage workbenches were typically not hardwood… I have traditional joiner's bench with laminated maple top, tool tray is pine. FWIW.


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## 2Dusty2

beautiful benches.


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## Mosquito

My bench top is primarily red oak, with the end caps and back of the tool well in maple, and the bottom of the tool well is pine… I find nothing wrong with that


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## terryR

Mos, always loved your bench! The combo of woods, the wooden screws, the splayed legs, all the joinery…

Only one problem that I can see…it isn't sitting in MY shop! 

+1to using multiple species of wood…except for Purpleheart and Maple. LOL.


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## richardwootton

I know bench dogs are very helpful, but bench cats are totally useless! Maybe she is just practicing her Bondo pose?


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## Pezking7p

Lol bench cats.
Admiring your leg vise, mos.

What do you guys use for pins for your leg vise parallel guides? I'm using a 3/8" red oak dowel, and it's bent to hell. Do I need thicker dowel or a metal dowel?


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## Airframer

Getting our leg vise on over here..










More Pics


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## DanKrager

Bench dogs dig holes. Cats are brushes. 
DanK


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## August

> My bench top is primarily red oak, with the end caps and back of the tool well in maple, and the bottom of the tool well is pine… I find nothing wrong with that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito


Hey men I never saw this !!!
Nice bench men


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## Iguana

> I know bench dogs are very helpful, but bench cats are totally useless! Maybe she is just practicing her Bondo pose?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - richardwootton


Hmm, I'm not so sure about "useless". Looks about the right shape and texture to make a fine bench brush  Alive, of course. That way the bench brush is self-cleaning…


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## richardwootton

Well played Mark, too bad I'm not a cat guy, but I don't have a bench brush just yet…


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## woodcox

My cats have been kicked out of my shop. I'm making them ply heated housing to hang under my covered deck. Joining sheathing is going to be riot me thinks.


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## john2005

Question for the panel. I have been kicking around the idea of a bearing on my leg vice ala Red as it has a little drag. While I was kicking it around, I cut an old white plastic cutting board my wife was pitching, and put it around the screw to help simulate the lift. It is after all what bench crafted does, it's just I didn't inset mine, I just screwed it to the outside of the leg. Yes I, cannot close it the last 3/8". It's just a test. it works amazingly well. 
The question is, today I found a 1 1/2" wood tap and die. $25 and they appear new. Now I am thinking about a wooden screw, and tapping the leg. Thoughts? Who out there is using a wooden screw? Mos, I know you are. Andy? I thought you did. How do they turn. What would you do different. Is my idea stupid. Lemme know before I ruin the bench. Thanks all


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## Mosquito

> Admiring your leg vise, mos.
> What do you guys use for pins for your leg vise parallel guides? I m using a 3/8" red oak dowel, and it s bent to hell. Do I need thicker dowel or a metal dowel?
> 
> - Pezking7p


I used a second wooden screw that's threaded into my chop, and then use a 3/4" thick wooden nut on that instead of a pin for the leg vise. Mauricio has a posting about it in his workbench blog. I did essentially the same thing, except less fancy lol


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## Mosquito

> Now I am thinking about a wooden screw, and tapping the leg. Thoughts? Who out there is using a wooden screw? Mos, I know you are. Andy? I thought you did. How do they turn. What would you do different. Is my idea stupid. Lemme know before I ruin the bench. Thanks all
> 
> - john2005


I am indeed using a wooden screws for both vises on my workbench. Same 1-1/2" tap and die set probably; 6TPI. I have no complaints. It doesn't turn anywhere near as easily as the bench crafted stuff appears to, but I'm not usually in a big enough rush at my bench to need to send the vise handle spinning until it closes.

I have a through hole with the hub and garter plate on the chop, and then drilled and tapped the leg for mine

The only issue I've had with my wooden leg vise screw is that the first one literally ripped the center of the screw right out of the hub after a little while… 









You can see that it was glued and pegged, and just tore the middle grain right out of it









haven't had any issues with my wagon vise yet. I had this video from when I first installed it. The leg vise isn't quite as smooth, but it's also got the chop hanging on it.


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## Lucasd2002

> First post - straight into workbench planning…
> 
> I have limited time and skills but hope to improve (the skills part). Due to inheritance, I have a strange mix of modern and antique tools. I haven t spent much time using chisels, but I have a pile of them in the garage. I may as well try using them.
> 
> There is a Record 52 1/2 D sitting on the shelf in my garage that needs a bench built around it.
> 
> Whatever I build will be woodworking and multipurpose (i.e., woodworking, beer-stand, a little auto repair, soldering station, etc). I have a metal-working vise in the garage also (not sure how many vises I could potentially mount onto this bench).
> 
> I have a few ideas bouncing around in my head… At this point, I think it will be 30" wide x 90-96" long (with a 6-inch tool tray on the rear side). I plan to build the base out of softwood (SYP, spruce, fir, etc - whatever is available at the local lumberyards).
> 
> Bob Lang, Cecil Braeden, and Paul Sellers (with a hint of Chris Schwarz) seem to be influencing my design thoughts.
> 
> For the top, I was planning to laminate/stack plywood or MDF with hardwood edging… but I think I have shifted mindset and will laminate/face join boards to make a ~3-4" thick top.
> 
> I went to a local lumberyard last weekend. They had a pretty good price on 8/4 Maple, which seems like a traditional bench top material. Another intriguing option was 16/4 poplar. Nearly 4" slabs of poplar would make a nice bench top, I think. (Other potential options were 8/4 pine and 8/4 poplar.) I realize poplar isn t the hardest wood out there, but I still kinda like this idea.
> 
> For the base, this is my preliminary plan (bench top not shown for clarity). The view below is the front left corner. The front apron (drawn as a 2×6) is sandwiched between two vertical 2×4s (so each leg is three laminated 2×4s). The aprons are offset from the top to allow for edge clamping similar to Bob Lang s 21st century bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have the apron shown with two 3/4" dowels through the entire leg. One thing that is not shown: I am planning to add a second 2×6 onto the front of the apron so the front surface of the apron, the leg, and the edge of the top are all co-planar.
> 
> The side stretcher is a mortise and tenon joint (mortise would be cut through the entire thickness of the rear 2×4 of the leg) and also supports the bench surface.
> 
> OK, what problems do people see?
> 
> - Lucasd2002


I was thinking about making a homebrew wagon/tail vise using the $37 LV screw.

Is there an example of someone who has side stretcher supporting the workbench top and has a wagon vise (most examples I see with wagons have no upper side stretcher)? I guess I would need to (1) keep everything for the wagon flush with the underside of the bench or (2) make sure I have enough overhang beyond the two right legs to fit the wagon vise.

[at this point, my intention is rip 2×12s in half, laminating multiple parts to make the legs and side stretchers]

I guess I could cut a little out of the upper surface of the RH side stretcher to clear the wagon mechanism, but that sounds less than ideal. Thoughts?


----------



## August

> Question for the panel. I have been kicking around the idea of a bearing on my leg vice ala Red as it has a little drag. While I was kicking it around, I cut an old white plastic cutting board my wife was pitching, and put it around the screw to help simulate the lift. It is after all what bench crafted does, it s just I didn t inset mine, I just screwed it to the outside of the leg. Yes I, cannot close it the last 3/8". It s just a test. it works amazingly well.
> The question is, today I found a 1 1/2" wood tap and die. $25 and they appear new. Now I am thinking about a wooden screw, and tapping the leg. Thoughts? Who out there is using a wooden screw? Mos, I know you are. Andy? I thought you did. How do they turn. What would you do different. Is my idea stupid. Lemme know before I ruin the bench. Thanks all
> 
> - john2005


My advice is 1-1/2 steel acme lead screw.
I can provide the brass nut and flange for the lead screw.
I have lots of them I just don't have the screws or lead screw and I can lead you to the place to order the lead screw.
And machine the lead screw too!!!


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## CL810

John, I'm happy with my vise screw which is 2-1/8", 3 TPI, and travels 3/8" with one complete turn. Threading the leg will give you a larger opening compared to mine which has the nut mounted to the back of the leg. The screw itself turns just fine.


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## Iguana

> I was thinking about making a homebrew wagon/tail vise using the $37 LV screw.
> 
> Is there an example of someone who has side stretcher supporting the workbench top and has a wagon vise (most examples I see with wagons have no upper side stretcher)? I guess I would need to (1) keep everything for the wagon flush with the underside of the bench or (2) make sure I have enough overhang beyond the two right legs to fit the wagon vise.
> 
> [at this point, my intention is rip 2×12s in half, laminating multiple parts to make the legs and side stretchers]
> 
> I guess I could cut a little out of the upper surface of the RH side stretcher to clear the wagon mechanism, but that sounds less than ideal. Thoughts?
> 
> - Lucasd2002


Lucas,

The bench I'm building will have a wagon vise with side stretchers. It will have a fairly long overhang on that side (19" of a total 90" top). In addition, the first dog hole will be directly over the leg, which means cutting a a notch in the leg to give access to the bottom of the dog.

Why do you want to have a front apron?


----------



## Lucasd2002

> Lucas,
> 
> The bench I m building will have a wagon vise with side stretchers. It will have a fairly long overhang on that side (19" of a total 90" top). In addition, the first dog hole will be directly over the leg, which means cutting a a notch in the leg to give access to the bottom of the dog.
> 
> Why do you want to have a front apron?
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Probably because I've been reading Bob Lang's article about the 21st century workbench. Also, "when in doubt, add more mass."

I'm sure I could get away without having the front apron.

What are you using to guide the moving parts for the wagon? I was thinking about delrin sliding between steel plates.


----------



## Iguana

> Probably because I ve been reading Bob Lang s article about the 21st century workbench. Also, "when in doubt, add more mass."
> 
> I m sure I could get away without having the front apron.
> 
> What are you using to guide the moving parts for the wagon? I was thinking about delrin sliding between steel plates.
> 
> - Lucasd2002


Benchcrafted. There are steel guides that get mounted on the bottom of the bench. If the top is thick enough, they can be recessed. Mine is and I will.

There's lots or ways to add mass to a bench. A front apron doesn't add all that much. Depending on how your top is attached to the base, a front apron might be useful for resisting racking. For mine, I'm using a substantial back apron but no front.


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## john2005

Dang Andy, 2 1/8" 3 tpi? I must have gotten the small set….that does sound a lot better.

That's crazy Mos, how it just tore through. What kind of wood was it?

I have an idea to turn the hub and screw as one piece so I could use anything really. Probably going to have to do some laminations to get the right thickness though. I dunno yet, still not sold. I like the idea, I just don't want to hack the bench apart to find out if it will work or not.


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## RPhillips

Should I use mortise and tenon's on the tops of the legs going into the bench tops on my Split Top? I have allowed for tenns on my legs, but I' m starting think it would be easier to get the tops fitted and flattened without them.

Thoughts?


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## Mosquito

John, it was hard maple for both pieces


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Should I use mortise and tenon s on the tops of the legs going into the bench tops on my Split Top? I have allowed for tenns on my legs, but I m starting think it would be easier to get the tops fitted and flattened without them.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> - RPhillips


I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around your question Rob.


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## Sylvain

RPhillips,
if you plan to use a leg vise, it is necessary to have a strong joint between the said leg and the top.
Otherwise, the top will be pushed backwards when clamping something in the vise.


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## RPhillips

Good point *Sylvain*, I plan to use lag bolts to secure the top, maybe I"ll add a loose tenon if I remove the current ones.

*Red*, I have already cut 1.25"x1.25"x(width of leg) tenons on the top of my bench legs, then I planned on cutting mortises on the bottom of my bench top to receive the tenons. I was doing this to help secure the top since I will be securing it in place with lag bolts from underneath.

The problem I have is that unlike having a top that is solid all the way across, I have two tops that I must make sure the surfaces are co-planer with one another. So in order for me to do that I need to clamp them together to make sure they are the same which would require me to remove the tenon. I might put a scrap across the top of the legs and give that a try.


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## duckmilk

Rob, I hope I am understanging you properly, if not, just give me a virtual smack alongside the head.

I agree with Sylvain. Couldn't you mount both top pieces as they would be mounted in their final position, then make a filler piece to fill the gap and flatten the whole thing as if it was one piece?


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## Sylvain

Kari Hultman made a (very nice) roubo with with a split top.

It starts here

It is a knock down workbench. The two tops just rest on the base.


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## BubbaIBA

If your stretchers are true and co-planer with the tenon shoulders then there is no problem with the slabs alining. In addition the split presents no problem in leveling the top once the slabs are mounted. It's a non-issue.

BTW, I've built two split top benches and I'm working on the third. The first one out of construction grade SYP had a little wind when finished, enough that I made a router sled to flatten it. The second was dead nuts perfect and has stayed that way so far. The third is being built of construction grade DF that has been doing the mambo, I expect when it is finished the router sled will get a work out.


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## wormil

I'm sure this has been asked and answered a hundred times already so forgive me in advance-but how deep are most of you building your benches? I know some like deep benches (~24") but some Roubo's I've seen are very narrow, maybe 14-16". I'm asking because I am planning a bench build in the next several months (hopefully) and I won't have room for much over 14-18". I won't have a tool tray but maybe a spot to hang chisels.


----------



## donwilwol

Rick, it would depend on what you typically build. A lot if cabinets are 24" wide, so if your building a lot of them, you'd want a wider bench.


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## BubbaIBA

I'll add one more reason to Dow W's post for a wider bench, say 24" vs. 16", at some point the base is too narrow and the bench becomes tippy. This can be overcome with angled rear legs, lower height, mass concentration and so on but the easy answer for a normal height bench is a width that is close to 24" or wider.

The need for stability is one of the reasons my benches have split tops, I only need around 400mm for working surface but I want 630mm for stability. The split allows the needed width but at the same time has the build advantages of a smaller slab and no need for the complex joinery of angled rear legs.


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## Sylvain

two narrow benches (12") :

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/60275

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/20943

but the footprint is not narrow for the good reasons pointed to by BubbaIBA.


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## Tugboater78

Grumble.. need to finish my bench..


----------



## Mosquito

My Workbench has a top that's about 10-1/2" wide, with splayed legs for a footprint of 18-1/2" wide. I do have a tool well on it, for a total width of around 19-1/2" or so. I would agree that a narrower top would require splayed legs of some sort, as it'd get a little top heavy.


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## ssnvet

Hay-oh workbench peeps,

Decided to throw away a junk metal desk in the basement office adjacent to my shop, and haul the metal desk in my shop out to the office…. which frees up space for?????

Another workbench!!!! (it will be #4 in the shop)

I've been looking at Stumpy's 2×6 Roubo…. and may incorporate many elements of that…. but in the end, I could get 4×4 rough hardwood cant stock from work for the same cost and though it will be a more time consuming build, decided to go that direction.

Looking to incorporate some different elements…. 
1. a back fence (the bench will be up against a wall)
2. some T-tracks embedded in the top.
3. a good face vise and a cheapo tail vise.
4. drawer storage.
5. a swing arm light with magnifying glass for detail work.

I'm not much of a hand tool worker… I have them but prefer to use power tools for the heavy lifting and hand tools for cleaning up and details.

Finally caught up on this thread (I posted a rehab bench about a gazillion posts ago) and appreciate all the great info yous guys have collected.

Loaded up the lumber yesterday, but my truck broke down and I wasn't able to get it home until tonight… after sitting in the rain all night :^( Now it's stacked and stickered in the barn to dry out.

Have a hope chest to finish up first and figure it will take while to get the lumber dry… but at least I've put my foot on the path and am out of the blocks.

That's all for now….


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## BigRedKnothead

Alright Matt. Bring on a new bench build we're pumped!


----------



## Airframer

Quick tentative test drive and …. It works! I need to make a bushing for the screw going into the leg. There is a bit of side to side movement in it but turns and operates smoothly.


----------



## RPhillips

*AF* - looking good!

Been working some OT and was thinking about picking up one of these;










I was going to make my own criss-cross with some 1/4" plate steel fab'd up, but I'm to the point that I really just want to be done with building and start using my bench.

Winter's Coming…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Eric - Little AF needs a tool cabinet...


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Rob- Yes, yes you should.

I'm sure you feel better with my permission.


----------



## RPhillips

Progress…










Actually gotten a little further than this. Got the lower assembly all fitted up and got the top somewhat flattened and roughly cut to length.

Now filling in the gaps on the bottom with Epoxy.

Also, started work on the chop for my leg vise. 2.25" thick enough? I got a piece that is 3.5" thick that I"m going to use.


----------



## Airframer

Smitty that thing is pretty cool! Too bad the shipping is the same as the BIN. Might have to consider it though lol.


----------



## CL810

Rob, yes on the criss cross. My vise has a handle. If I was doing it over I think I'd go with a wheel. Not a big deal, but to me a low handle is a bit of a PIA.


----------



## Airframer

Gettin' there. Sticker will be covered by a ramp.


----------



## RPhillips

> Rob, yes on the criss cross. My vise has a handle. If I was doing it over I think I d go with a wheel. Not a big deal, but to me a low handle is a bit of a PIA.
> 
> - CL810


I like the wheel for it's functionality, but I like the ascetics and simplicity of the levered handle.

I do like that wheel…it's getting close enough to Christmas to swing it as a present for me… hmmmmm decisions…


----------



## BubbaIBA

> Rob, yes on the criss cross. My vise has a handle. If I was doing it over I think I d go with a wheel. Not a big deal, but to me a low handle is a bit of a PIA.
> 
> - CL810


I found the wheel difficult to tighten and release, old weak hands but…..Give me a Johnson bar where I can get leverage if needed with out needing a strong grip. Of course if I were younger and still strong as an ox the spin of the wheel to open and close while not as quick as a QR metal vise is very nice.

ken


----------



## RPhillips

Well, I'm an oil worker, so spinning valve wheels is just second nature… maybe that's why I'm leaning towards the lever


----------



## CL810

Ken, it may be a case of the grass is always greener…. I've never used a vise with a wheel but figured it would be easier to turn. Never thought about tightening. There are times when I do lean into the handle so I understand what you are saying.


----------



## ssnvet

Re sawed some of the rough cut cants I purchased from work and I think this one is Hickory…










Hope I've got a few more like it in the remaining cants


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^oohhh. Nice Matt.

Rob- I've had Tommy bar and wheel leg vise. I give the edge to a free spinnin wheel…..but I doubt you'll be disappointed with either BC setups.


----------



## RPhillips

Epoxing…

Bottom of my Bench Top


----------



## terryR

Nice looking cut, Matt, what blade are you running? Time for me to purchase a new one…

Love the progress, Rob. But you don't wanna see the underside of my benchtop! 

Re: vise handles…I agree the grass is probably greener on the Benchcrafted site! love my long straight leg vise handle mostly because I made it…no need to bend over to lift the long leg…just pull up on the short knob sticking up, then lean into the sucker.

And…IF anyone with a pine bench needs tips on how to get that aged color quickly…try restoring a few rusty planes on the surface. Guaranteed patina left behind! LOL.


----------



## JayT

Matt, that lumber should make a killer bench.

Good progress, Rob.

Eric, did you decide to do something to try an prevent finger pinching in the vise or just gonna let the little guy learn?


----------



## JayT

.


----------



## JayT

Having major issues with duplicate posts today.


----------



## JayT

> And…IF anyone with a pine bench needs tips on how to get that aged color quickly…try restoring a few rusty planes on the surface. Guaranteed patina left behind! LOL.
> 
> - terryR


Funny, my pine bench has the same patina.


----------



## woodcox

Sounds like some inspirational new dedicated joinery/restoration/sharpening bench builds are in order. 
Ok I'll go for it. 











> And…IF anyone with a pine bench needs tips on how to get that aged color quickly…try restoring a few rusty planes on the surface. Guaranteed patina left behind! LOL.
> 
> - terryR
> 
> Funny, my pine bench has the same patina.
> 
> - JayT


----------



## donwilwol

> And…IF anyone with a pine bench needs tips on how to get that aged color quickly…try restoring a few rusty planes on the surface. Guaranteed patina left behind! LOL.
> 
> - terryR
> 
> Funny, my pine bench has the same patina.
> 
> - JayT
> 
> - woodcox


My elm bench has similar patina.


----------



## ssnvet

*What blade?*

1/2" 3 TPI Starret…. Nothing special really… But it is brand new.

Im guessing that the lumber is Hickory.


----------



## ssnvet

Here's what I've come up with so far….

Design is similar to Stumpy's (but not made of 2X SPF) with the joinery more similar to David Barron's

Plywood box will resist racking and provide platform to add several wide drawers. Also, the back plywood will act like a fence, to reference too, and potentially help secure work with dog holes.

Dog/hold fast holes will be added to the top and front legs.

Thinking about putting a strip of T-track in, but not sure where.

Any ideas or feed back are welcome…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Looks good Matt. I don't think the plywood will be needed to deter racking per se…that's some solid joinery. But I don't blame you for wanting tool storage. Might consider dropping the top of the plywood box to allow space for bench dogs and holdfasts. Like I did on the right side of my joinery bench.








Still used as a shelf.


----------



## Pezking7p

Matt,

If you do the through dovetails, the bench is going to be very solid without the plywood. In my humble opinion:

-Don't mount the plywood to your bench, instead, build a separate cabinet that can be removed if necessary. Follow red's advice to leave the upper part open for dogs/holdfasts, or at the very least to slide some lumber/tools in there to get them out of the way.

-I understand your thoughts on the "fence", especially since it's up against a wall. But, there will come a day in the not-so-distant future that you will want to put something flat across there, and you won't be able too. It's very easy to move your bench away from the wall, and I guarantee you'll want to do it before long. If you still want to do the fence, I would make it removable somehow.


----------



## ssnvet

all good points…. Lots of good things to consider.


----------



## merrill77

If you want a bench is as stiff as possible, a (closed) plywood box attached directly to the legs will achieve maximum stiffness. The physics and geometry of the design are superior to more traditional designs, no matter how good the joinery is. There, I've said it. Flame away.

That said, there is a point of diminishing returns, and that space under the bench can be very valuable (to myself included). I built a tool cabinet into mine as well. It was designed in originally but not built until the bench was fully usable on it's own. It fits so tight that removal would not be easy without disassembling the entire bench…and as a result it greatly increased the stiffness of the bench.

I left space between the cabinet top and the bottom of the benchtop both to give me a place to set things and to make it easy to clamp things to the benchtop. Without that separation, you will not be able to use holdfasts. Is that something you want to make use of?










I have serious doubts about the usefullness of the plywood sticking up from the back of the bench. If the bench is going to be up against a wall..then why not use the wall as the stop? Presumably this would be more sturdy and immobile than the most sturdy bench. If you ever want to pull the bench away from the wall to work on something around all 4 sides, then you're stuck with that in the way. But you know your usage best - if you have good reasons for going that direction, I look forward to seeing it in use


----------



## RPhillips

Here's my mock up so far. If I had it to do again, I would change a thing or two. Not going to assemble it until after I get the leg vice fab'd up.


----------



## Pezking7p

You can always pull a Bubba and start your second bench build as soon as you're done with this one!

Whats the part under the top? Is the the bottom of your tool tray, or an apron?

Looking just about done, Rob.


----------



## woodcox

Yep. That ones about dead center on my screw. 


















TB 2 doesn't stick to 321. Friggin sweet! 
After two weeks, several scratches n dents on my top. Abuse no doubt. 
Massive Rob!


----------



## Pezking7p

doh!

Nice shirt.


----------



## ssnvet

I will definitely leave a shelf under the bench top and above the drawer carcass… 
1. so I can clamp to the top and 
2. so I have a handy place to toss the clamps

I'll attach the carcass to the legs and stretchers, but will use screws, so it can be removed if need be.

Ever since I took the American Wood Council class on shear wall design to resist high wind loads (they generate the structural requirements for wood framing that are incorporated into building codes), I'm all about using plywood to resist racking :^D

I'll lower the back plywood to about 3" above the top… kind of like a back splash. I like to have a fence that I can use as a reference to align parts. But I'll take the advice to make it removable. This bench will be parked against a wall, and I have this bench in the center of the shop that has access on all for sides for oversized work:










For smaller glue ups and clean work on a dead flat surface… I made this bench (with lots of storage):










(both of these are in my projects)


----------



## woodcox

If he's getting a back splash I want a sharpening sink in my joint bench!


----------



## RPhillips

Remember when I said do a few things different… well…

That "thing" under my top is a stretcher (that's what the cool kids call it). I wasn't thinking when I laid it out, I knew I needed one between the front and back legs due to the split top and I guess I got carried away and added one to the front and back as well.

I will be removing them and will just have to live with the mortise holes. I'm just leaving it in there for now so I can use the bench until I get my vise hardware and put it all together.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Matt- When you get that bench built….with the glorious wedged through tenons and all, do an experiment before you mount the plywood. Shove as hard as you can and try to get that bench to rack.

Of course I'm being ornery…..but a bench built like that will not rack


----------



## JayT

> I ll lower the back plywood to about 3" above the top… kind of like a back splash. I like to have a fence that I can use as a reference to align parts. But I ll take the advice to make it removable.
> 
> - Mainiac Matt


My two cents worth is to leave off the plywood, as well. If you need a straight reference guide, make one with a nice piece of hardwood and some dowels that drops into dog holes.


----------



## CL810

Matt, I built my bench like Barron's. I don't want to meet the beast the could cause it to rack. Plywood is not necessary, IMHO.


----------



## Tugboater78

Grumble… winter rolling in.. glue won't work.. workbench won't be finished.. maybe if I get some decent days ..


----------



## john2005

Agreed on the not being able to rack a well jointed bench without ply. It will just be in your way, or at least it would be in mine. And didn't you say you're not much of a hand-tool woodworker. Not that it matters at all, its just that the whole racking thing revolves around force applied while planing. If you are not planing, just screw that top down and let gravity to the rest. She'll be fine. 
Please dont take that as me tellin you how to build your bench. Its just my two cents, whatever they are worth. (probably not much)


----------



## ssnvet

make one with a nice piece of hardwood and some dowels that drops into dog holes.

Now that's an idea… logging that one.

CL810…. would you please share with me the geometry you used for your wedged tennons.
width?
thickness?
slit angle?
Mortise angle?
width of hinged piece?

Barron doesn't detail this in the video, and I'd prefer not to guess


----------



## CL810

Matt, that was a year ago. Lol. I've slept too many times since then! Let me think on that and I'll pm you tomorrow.


----------



## terryR

Clayton, while you're digging through the dusty corners or your brain, how about a sketchUp model of your bench? Lots of colors, all details included, maybe a few templates thrown in the package? Heck, you could sell copies IMO!

To be honest, as soon as I hit the big lottery, expect an offer on your bench…would ya consider $4big ones? 

Love that chop…just sayin'

Edit…sweet shot, Woodcox. I ALMOST did the same! LOL!


----------



## ssnvet

I'm kinda-sorta thinking about a leg vise, even though I'm not a Ludite. I just think they're cool, and I have a big honkin' slab of Maple that would be ideal to use as a chop.

Where do you guys buy the wood screws? I can't drop big $ on the fancy hardware & don't like the pipe clamp idea much, but could perhaps swing a screw.

Either that or build something myself (I do a little metal work) as I have a ACME screw, brass nut and bearing set.


----------



## richardwootton

Matt, a few guys here have made their own wooden screws. Mosquito threaded his wooden screw with a tool I think he got at highland woodworking, but I'll have to go back and check the details on that.


----------



## RPhillips

Lee Valley Vise Screw $40


----------



## CL810

Matt, pm sent. I purchased my leg vise screw, nut, brass garter, and handle from Matt Evans here for around $250 including shipping.


----------



## Mosquito

I indeed made my own using a wood tap and die kit from Highland woodworking
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/manualwoodthreader1-126tpi.aspx

Only downside to that, is you're limited to 1-1/2" max diameter, and 6 TPI. 6 TPI might be a little slow for some peoples' preference on a leg vise screw. I was going to go with the tail vise screw that Rob just posted, until I ended up going with the wooden screw instead. I've been happy with my decision, but that's personal taste, I think. Both are pretty solid options, in my opinion.

Mauricio also made his own wooden screw for the leg vise, on a jig he built for the router. This allows larger screw diameter, and lower TPI.

Otherwise, I've saved this seller on eBay who seems to have a few options available http://www.ebay.com/usr/cmdevansenterprise


----------



## Mosquito

.


----------



## ssnvet

thanks for the replies… lots of good options available

I'm not committed to the leg vise idea… but it is in the running.


----------



## CL810

Terry, depends on how big the BIG ones are! LAwl!


----------



## Airframer

Spent a few minutes chopping and gluing up the boys wagon block. I blew out one wall of the nut hole (snicker) but it holds fine so I'm leaving it alone.



















I realized tonight that we are nearly done with this. All that is really left is some stretchers and final assembly/smoothing finish. I'll try my best to get him on top for a Bondo when done lol.


----------



## richardwootton

I can't wait to see a toddler Bondo!


----------



## jmartel

I think Eric should do a bondo on the bench. See if he'll fit.


----------



## RPhillips

^ Planking!


----------



## ColonelTravis

Sliding deadman - what's the best way to make this thing? Seen a few different ways, but in all the bench-building info. I've soaked up, there really isn't a whole lot of detail. Maybe it's just lot easier than I think.

AF - the kid bench is awesome.


----------



## RPhillips

I have a bit of a problem. It would just be much easier to remake my bench legs, but I just want to get this baby built so I can move on.

SO… here's issue. I cut off the top of my legs (the tenons) and now have no way to really secure my top on the base once I remove the the front and rear top stretchers.

So this is my plan, create a mortise on the leg in the and then into the bottom of the top and then glue in a tenon and pin it in both the top and bottom.

Any other thoughts? here's some pics. I penciled in the area where I will create the mortise so that it does not interfere with the other mortices for the stretchers.


----------



## RPhillips

> Sliding deadman - what s the best way to make this thing? Seen a few different ways, but in all the bench-building info. I ve soaked up, there really isn t a whole lot of detail. Maybe it s just lot easier than I think.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


My plan is to cut in a 3/4" rabbet in the bottom of the top and then a 45* triangle strip along the top of the bottom stretcher for it to slide on. I'll keep the shoulder on the top low enough so that I can lift the deadman up and out to remove it if need be.

If you look at the pic, it looks like Clayton has his like that too.


----------



## ColonelTravis

I think my main worry is getting the routed strip in the right place. Yeah, Rob, love his bench. Love everyone's bench here. Finally in the middle of a slab glue-up, it's gotten cool enough to work in the garage again (Texas), although I still need a freaking fan two feet behind me.


----------



## bandit571

Instead of a floating tenon…...get the biggest dowel you can find. Drill down a few inches into the leg. You CAN drill through the top, cut a kerf into the top of the dowel. Then lock everything together with a wedge. Have the wedge at right angles to the grain of the top, though. Can even use a contrasting wood for the dowel and even for the wedge.

Note: add a kerf to the bottom end of the dowel, insert a short wedge into the kerf, and drive the dowel home. No glue needed.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Travis- Lots of ways to go at a deadman. I didn't want to plunge a groove under my benchtop, so I attached a runner strip, then put the groove in my deadman.

Rob- lots of ways to do a loose tenon. I'd be tempted to saw a groove across the leg top, then glue and dowel a loose tenon like this:


----------



## Pezking7p

Matt, I used the LV vise screw for my leg vise, works great, even if it's not super fancy.

Travis, I made a 45 degree strip and screwed it to my stretcher. I cut the matching 45 degrees in the deadman, all on my tablesaw. I then cut a 90 degree kerf in the top of my deadman. I then mounted some 1/2" angle iron under my bench top that rides in the 90 degree kerf on the deadman. I left an 12" wide piece of angle iron separate so I can unscrew it and remove my deadman if need be.

Took me about 30 minutes to drill and mount the whole shebang. Can always do it more better in the future if I feel so inclined.


----------



## ColonelTravis

A double groovy deadman - hadn't even considered that. Red, is it removable or do you care? I'm not sure I care, I don't see me moving the bench across state lines or using the bottom for storage.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Not removable….and no, I don't care. lawl.

I glued the runner on the underside of the bench. No reason a guy couldn't just use a couple screws….making it removable.


----------



## BikerDad

> Properly designed, an adjustable height bench can be plenty rigid for woodworking purposes. I m not sure it s worth the effort, though.
> 
> You might take a look at this bench:
> http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/showthread.php?t=25831
> The builder also did an article on the bench design in American Woodworker magazine (December/January 2010 issue).
> 
> I have not seen this one in use and honestly, it looks a little too spindly to be really stiff. I don t think the Adjust-A-Bench bolted to a top would achieve that goal, either. But while designing my bench, I noodled around with some adjustable-height designs and I m confident that I could build one that s just as solid as my non-adjustable bench is.
> 
> - merrill77


If you want an adjustable bench that won't move, just put a benchtop on one of these.










560lbs, before you put a top with vise on it.


----------



## ssnvet

Done re-sawing….

Last two 4×4s were a surprise…. straight grained quarter sawn Hickory on the right two… and what appears to be Hard Maple (???) on the left two (with parts of the pith exposed).

Thinking of laminating this up light-dark-dark-light-dark-dark.










Painted on some anchor seal to prevent the ends from checking… not sure how long to let them dry, as I don't trust my ancient moisture meter.


----------



## CL810

> If you look at the pic, it looks like Clayton has his like that too.
> 
> - RPhillips


Looks can be deceiving. I decided I wanted the deadman's dog holes as close to the bench top as I could get them. This pic shows it best. Looking at the runner track you can see on the left that a section is missing. That's where I slip the deadman in and out.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Aha - crafty CL.
Thanks much for the input, fellas.


----------



## RPhillips

Red, doing something like that would interfere with the other mortises. Good idea though.

Bandit, I did considered using a dowel, in fact, I was actually going to pick one up from Menard's yesterday, but figured I'd think it over first. Even thought of putting two side by side and and flattening the sides that touch to give it a figure 8 look.

I'm going to give it a go in the morning, just wanted a little fed back before I got too far.


----------



## RPhillips

> ... ... ... ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - CL810


One question, how the hell did you get that thing off the top of the other bench?

Is there something we should know…. like do you have laser vision, wear your underwear on the outside of your tights and have an awesome cape?


----------



## woodcox

Rob, your frame is identical to mine, less the front stretcher, I have a an apron. My legs were checked pretty bad and I decided against stub tenons. Since your stretchers are flush with tops of the legs you can use your side stretchers to attach the top via counter bored lags up through them into the top. Two holes predrilled tight, other two oversized to allow for movement. Schwarz did this on the "knockdown holtzapffel". Maybe mentioned before but you could remove just the front stretcher and leave the back on there. 
Edit; I didn't like the idea of it until I did it and just got on with it


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Rob- Oh ya, forgot you have upper stretchers. Kinda like woodcox was saying…..easy way might be to attach a cleat to that upper stretcher and bolt it.


----------



## CL810

> One question, how the hell did you get that thing off the top of the other bench?
> 
> - RPhillips


It actually slid right off very easily. And how I wear my underwear is none of your business! :-0


----------



## Katfan97

So I have a small "glitch" with my bench top slab. It's 4 1/2" thick and the ends aren't square. I've tried hand sawing and belt sanding but neither have got it dead-on square. Anyone have any other ideas? It's way too thick to use a router or circular saw and the slab is 8' long and 25" wide so the bandsaw is also out. The combination of hand saw and then belt sander got it close but I'm a little obsessed. One positive to note is that the leg assemblies are installed and the workbench is ready for one last smoothing with my #4 Stanley and then on to finishing with some BLO or a homemade Danish Oil recipe floating around.


----------



## woodcox

Thinking of laminating this up light-dark-dark-light-dark-dark

- Mainiac Matt 
[/QUOTE]
Go for it! That way you get unlimited lives n ammo too 
Nice looking wood there sir!


----------



## ColonelTravis

Katfan - check out this video from Jordan The Aussie. He's got a double sided fence clamped on, cuts half the slab on one side, turns it over, fence remains in same position, cuts second side.


----------



## JADobson

Katfan, I just used this method from Fine Woodworking on my bench a few days ago and it worked really well. 









If you have any questions just ask.


----------



## john2005

Re- sliding deadman. I am really fond of a removable form. I have a groove on the underside that is as much deeper as the ridge on the bottom. I kept the piece above that I cut off and made a spacer out of it. Like this


----------



## RPhillips

John love the bench… she's a beaut!


----------



## RPhillips

> Rob, your frame is identical to mine, less the front stretcher, I have a an apron. My legs were checked pretty bad and I decided against stub tenons. Since your stretchers are flush with tops of the legs you can use your side stretchers to attach the top via counter bored lags up through them into the top. Two holes predrilled tight, other two oversized to allow for movement. Schwarz did this on the "knockdown holtzapffel". Maybe mentioned before but you could remove just the front stretcher and leave the back on there.
> Edit; I didn t like the idea of it until I did it and just got on with it
> 
> - woodcox


hmmmm…. wood movement was not something that I had considered. thanks

I think that I'll be going with a stub up tenon and then also will also secure it up through the side stretcher (this how I had originally planned to attach it) and remove the front (and maybe the rear) stretcher.

So, going with a tenon, I should slightly over size the hole for the Lag bolt to go through to allow for expansion?


----------



## woodcox

I used a forstner to counterbore half way or so up through stretchers, your lag length will determine how deep. Front two holes tight to the lag shank, rear two holes slightly bigger. I think mine are only 3/16" larger than the front ones. You want to allow the movement to be at the back of the bench. I found long lags with big heads near the deck building hardware.


----------



## duckmilk

Rob, if you are going to remove the stretcher, couldn't you just extend the leg mortice upward to the top of the leg? Then, fill the mortice with a glued tenon that extends up into your top.


----------



## RPhillips

Mike, good thought. but to late to consider now. 

I finally got the top on and both upper stretchers removed! I decided to go ahead and cut in 2"x2" tenons and mortised both the legs and tops. So far without anything other than a strap to hold it all together, it feels pretty solid. It should be even better once it's all pinned and glued.

I'll post up a pic in the am… finished too late to get a snap of it tonight, wifey and I went out to dinner for our 15th Anny.

Tomorrow I'll pull it all back a part and drill all the holes for the dowels. Cut and taper dowels. Drill the holes for the lag bolts and then build a sled for my router. After that it'll just be waiting for my leg vise hardware to get here.


----------



## duckmilk

2" tenons are plenty stout, unless it falls off the roof. Looking forward to the pics.


----------



## RPhillips

Did you guys use 1/4" or 3/8" dowels to pin your joints?


----------



## Mosquito

I used 3/8" dowels on mine


----------



## RPhillips

That's what I have. This is the first time I will be draw-boring, so not sure if 3/8" would fit the bill or not.


----------



## RPhillips




----------



## BikerDad

> I then mounted some 1/2" angle iron under my bench top that rides in the 90 degree kerf on the deadman. I left an 12" wide piece of angle iron separate so I can unscrew it and remove my deadman if need be.
> 
> Took me about 30 minutes to drill and mount the whole shebang. Can always do it more better in the future if I feel so inclined.
> 
> - Pezking7p


It seems to me that the angle iron could interfere with clamping. Has this been a problem for you?


----------



## RPhillips

Well got the new tenons on the top of the legs pinned and glued up. Draw boring was mostly a succes. I forgot to drill the hole on one of thr legs all the way through, so the dowel couldn't penetrate through the tenon. No biggie, still fitted up nice and tight.

Next, get the rest of the holes drilled for the other tenons and route a rabbet for the deadman.


----------



## ssnvet

Got slides?










$15 for three pairs…. 26", full extension, rated at 200#

Dirty from long term storage in an opened box in a commercial shop.


----------



## ssnvet

I think this little piece of 8/4×7 Maple wants to be the chop for a leg vise when it grows up….


----------



## RPhillips

What type of finish would you recommend for my bench? I would really like it to repel water since I like to have a beer in my shop and the glass tends to sweat a leaving a ring.


----------



## CL810

Rob, I like a Danish oil finish.


----------



## richardwootton

Follow that up with some paste wax and you'll be set.


----------



## Airframer

> Follow that up with some paste wax and you ll be set.
> 
> - richardwootton


I would skip the wax on a workbench. If you skip that you can easily refresh the finish from time to time and your work top won't be too slick.


----------



## richardwootton

That's a good point. I was thinking the paste wax would help out with glue drips and what not, but hadn't thought about touching up the finish.


----------



## Airframer

The boys workbench top is glued up just waiting for the clamps to come off tomorrow.










I also finished up the wagon vise leaving only the stretchers left to build. *stoked..


----------



## oltexasboy1

Since I had been busy building a Roubo facsimile workbench, I had not seen this thread, but I like it. I am currently finishing up the no 4 leg , the one that has the leg vise. I can't tell you how much pleasure I got when the screw from Lake Erie came in a couple of days ago. It wasn't cheap but the quality of the product is unbelievable. My new bench is laying like a dead roach on top of my old bench right now but with the help of the neighbor and his son , I plan on flipping it up on it's feet in a couple of days. I am not a master wood worker by any means and this thing has been a real challenge, but I finally realized that I was avoiding trying certain things because my old bench is just so unhandy. I have heard it said that a poor workman blames his tools but in this case the bench itself was holding me back from getting projects done in a timely fashion. I'll post some pics later.


----------



## RPhillips

Alright Tex, we'll be waiting for the pics!

So after doing a web search for seems to be quite a difference in their makeup, any preference? Tried and True, Daft, Watco, etc. I have a rockler and a woodcraft both relatively close by.


----------



## richardwootton

Ron, from what I understand they're all pretty darn similar, however I really like the Watco version, and I hear Waterlox is a great product.


----------



## oltexasboy1

Some thing you might want to factor into your thoughts on the finish, is, do you really want a slick top on your workbench. I don't really want my work sliding all over the place while I'm trying to work on it. I am using Watco for 2 reasons. First I have part of a gallon left over from where I did the bead board in the kitchen and dining room and it is easy to refresh the surface if need be in the future.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^What he said. I used paste wax over the danish oil once….and I hated it. Too slickkkery.


----------



## ssnvet

I have Watco Natural Exterior Use left over from finishing Canoe gunnels and it worked very well on my first bench.

I think the exterior grade has a little more poly in it… And the natural does a nice job of popping the grain without darkening the light hardwoods.


----------



## RPhillips

Guess who just ordered one of these… this guy<<<<


----------



## donwilwol

Fresh coat of poly. Locking in the patina.


----------



## RPhillips

Love that Bench Don!

Now that sir… that… that is a hand wheel!

If I was still working at the old refinery I was at, I seen an old hand wheel that I would have snagged and had our machinists attach it to a screw for me…


----------



## ssnvet

Rob…. I was just looking at the Benchcrafted hardware last week. Very nice looking, high quality set up …. 
quite pricey, but I'm sure your going to love it.

So what do you guys thing about this idea….

Front vise flush with the overhanging left side of the bench and a leg vise on the right leg?


----------



## BubbaIBA

Christopher Schwarz is a force in the woodworking world, that is a given and I think the hand tool world has greatly benefited from his advocacy. His books on workbenches are first rate and there is much to be gained from reading them before building a bench but, damn there is always that but…..he dismisses iron face vises with faint phrase and IIRC he seems to advocate wagon vises in his book and over hypes leg vises.

I expect that is one of the main drivers to the number of leg vises being installed on current workbench builds. I know I went down that road myself on an earlier bench build, both leg and wagon vises. I found both lacking and the current bench has neither. I know long build up to the intended subject but, what the hey, I'm old and I instruct for a living…..ask me the time I will tell how to build…..

Anyway on CS's blog today he made one of the truest statements about benches I've seen from him, it is about using a notched batten for work holding: "...The notched batten is the difference between needing an end vise and not needing an end vise." BTW, I could be mistaken but I do not believe his latest bench has an end vise, wagon or otherwise.

If you have not watched Richard Maguire's video on using a notched batten you should take the time to watch.


----------



## ssnvet

That notched batten looks like a clever little gizmo… I'll have to make one up and keep in in the bench pocket… even though I'm not really much of a hand plane guy.


----------



## lateralus819

Love your bench Don. Tons of character. Digging that huge wheel too! Whered ya score that?


----------



## Pezking7p

> I then mounted some 1/2" angle iron under my bench top that rides in the 90 degree kerf on the deadman. I left an 12" wide piece of angle iron separate so I can unscrew it and remove my deadman if need be.
> 
> Took me about 30 minutes to drill and mount the whole shebang. Can always do it more better in the future if I feel so inclined.
> 
> - Pezking7p
> 
> It seems to me that the angle iron could interfere with clamping. Has this been a problem for you?
> 
> - BikerDad


It hasn't interfered yet, but I haven't had it long. If it does get in the way, it's easy to remove and modify.


----------



## Airframer

X-Post from the SOTS thread..

Stuff and thangs in the shop today.. nearly there now..


----------



## ColonelTravis

Man, I need a Don wheel like that.
Saw that holdfast and batten video a while back - sold me on not bothering with any kind of end vice for my bench.


----------



## RPhillips

Since I don't have a vice in my shop, I decided to go with a leg vice as it seems to be the most versitle. I have no other plans at this time to add another vice. I was considering mounting up a face vice on the end if I decide I need it. I would actually like to have a moxon style vise on the end, but since its a split top, I've put that idea out for now.

Anyone ever find out where to get those holdfasts with the leaf on the end? I remember someone posting up pic and don't recall seeing any update about it.


----------



## richardwootton

Rob, I know where but I'm drawing a blank at the moment. I think the name is black bear forge or so
Ething like that. If you google hand forged hold fasts you'll find it.

Actually, I did the search and here are those beauties, and I really want a pair! http://www.blackbearforge.com/holdfast.htm


----------



## richardwootton

Double post.


----------



## RPhillips

Thanks. I could only find images of them in a web search. I might have to pick up a set after the holidays.


----------



## donwilwol

> Love your bench Don. Tons of character. Digging that huge wheel too! Whered ya score that?
> 
> - lateralus819


Thanks, its an antique shop find.


----------



## lateralus819

Sweet looks good!

I can't wait to retire my make-shift bench and build a real one. I was doing some heavy hand planing and it was moving around all over my shop.


----------



## Lucasd2002

Saturday: cut the 8/4 poplar down to size for top
Sunday: started planing board surfaces in preparation for glue-up [pictured]


----------



## TerryDowning

Lots of great wok happening on this thread. I have been slammed with the day job and have a hard time keeping up any more. I did mange to complete my bench this last weekend.

Details in the "Completed Project" 


Of course no bench claimed complete on this thread truly is with out his!










Keep up the good work fellas.

Special thanks to fellow LJ Paul (Shipwright) Miller for his inspiration and the really cool inlay!!


----------



## yuridichesky

Terry, hell yes!


----------



## CL810

Nice job Terry! If that was Red on your bench I'd say it must be about 3 - 3.5 feet long. But since its you, I'm guessing about 6 feet long.


----------



## TerryDowning

Actually 5 ft.


----------



## RPhillips

Looking Good Terry, Congrats!


----------



## ColonelTravis

Well done Terry - congrats!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice work, Terry!


----------



## theoldfart

Well alrighty right then Terry! Nicely done.


----------



## DanKrager

Congratulations, Terry. Mark its birthday on there somewhere! And sign it. Love that inlay. I think you might have pushed that trend along…putting an inlay in the leg vise. A new tradition?
DanK


----------



## TerryDowning

All credit for the inlay goes to Shipwright along with the design of the Vise.

Thanks for all the kind comments and a "Daily Top 3" status


----------



## TerryDowning

All credit for the inlay goes to Shipwright along with the design of the Vise.

Thanks for all the kind comments and a "Daily Top 3" status


----------



## Tugboater78

.


----------



## donwilwol

nice work all around terry.


----------



## merrill77

Terry - most excellent! I know you'll enjoy working on it


----------



## Pezking7p

Terry! Feels good to be finished, eh? Looks awesome and I'm glad to see another bondo.



> Saturday: cut the 8/4 poplar down to size for top
> Sunday: started planing board surfaces in preparation for glue-up [pictured]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Lucasd2002


I hope I'm not too late, but planing over an open span like this is a sure way to get faces that aren't flat. As you push on the board it flexes and you end up planing a bow into the board.


----------



## richardwootton

Lucas were you just removing mill marks for glue up? You might still be ok, but like Pez said, you're going to want some support under those boards like a sheet of ply on top of those saw horses.


----------



## theoldfart

Lucas, you could make a simple torsion box for support because Dan and Richard are both correct. Your glues surface will be uneven given the spacing on your saw horses. Not too noticeable on one or two planks but when you glue up the sections you could run into issues ( based on my experience . Spent a bit of time replaning my sections, clamping did not pull them together very well.


----------



## BubbaIBA

Kinda chicken-egg ain't it . It is a lot easier to build a bench if you have a bench to build it on. As you found out you need a support to true the face, a number of ways to do it. Of course the quickest is to find a new friend with a planer.

Forgot to add, once you get three or four boards glued then that section on saw horses can be your bench….might want to sacrifice some construction grade 2X6 to make a quick and dirty work surface.


----------



## Lucasd2002

Thanks for all the comments. I was just skimming the surface to remove machining marks (both sides) - similar to Paul Sellers instructions. I have not glued anything yet (still have more to plane). I will check them for cupping before the glue-up.


----------



## Pezking7p

> Kinda chicken-egg ain t it . It is a lot easier to build a bench if you have a bench to build it on. As you found out you need a support to true the face, a number of ways to do it. Of course the quickest is to find a new friend with a planer.
> 
> Forgot to add, once you get three or four boards glued then that section on saw horses can be your bench….might want to sacrifice some construction grade 2X6 to make a quick and dirty work surface.
> 
> - BubbaIBA


A couple 2×6's laid across the saw horses (like floor joists) with a piece of plywood on top (or mdf, etc) would make a great surface. I made a large torsion box assembly table a la wood whisperer. I find this bench indispensable in my woodworking, and I would have struggled to make my workbench without it. Gotta have a "bench" to build a bench, even if it's not really a bench.


----------



## merrill77

If I'd seen this beam/sawhorse/workbench design way back in my early WWing days, I would have probably built them. And still be using them.


----------



## richardwootton

> If I d seen this beam/sawhorse/workbench design way back in my early WWing days, I would have probably built them. And still be using them.
> 
> - merrill77


That's pretty similar to what I built as a temporary platform to build my big bench, with a few changes. Instead of the torsion box top, I laminated construction grade SPF 2×4s for my top. Then for the base I built two beefy saw horses, which are connected by basically a frame made from 2×4s, which added a lot of rigidity, then I just screwed the base to the top from the underside. It stands up really well to heavy planing and serves most of the purposes I need. That being said, I'm ready for a real work bench!


----------



## JADobson

Just finished a major vide retrofit on my bench. My bench actually belongs to my brother but he doesn't have room for it at his place so I'm using it till he wants it back. He built the bench and I've just been tweaking it here and there. When I first got the bench it only had a small vide on the front right corner. It was alright but not ideal. So I added a large LV quick release vise on the end of the bench. 









I moved the little vise to the front left side of the bench. 








The bench wasn't quiet long enough so I had to add a bit so it would fit.

I also drilled some holes for dogs. When my brother built the bench he screwed it together rather than glueing it so I had to be pretty careful with my brace so as to not hit a screw. 









Because of the way the bench top is assembled (with screws) the top tends to sag a fair bit so I had to remove 1/4" of material from each side in order to flatten it. Hope it stays here now. I'm not holding my breath though. 









The bench racks a little so I'm planning on adding a plywood back to help keep it sturdy.


----------



## Pezking7p

I was thinking "alright that bench looks sweet" until you got to the closeup of the benchtop, lol. Nice job putting some rehab into your brother's bench. Before you know it you'll be unscrewing it so you can glue the top together…then it will rack to much so you'll have to dovetail the legs into the top, etc


----------



## JADobson

No, I think this is the most that I will do to it. Soon it will be time to build a new one. But having this one has been good for knowing what I want and what I don't want in a bench.


----------



## oltexasboy1

Well I have finished most of my bench , now all I need is 4 guys to help me get it turned upright where I can finish the top. That thing is setting on top of my old bench and it is way too heavy for an old man to move.


----------



## Airframer

Drawboring on tap for tonight #stoked..


----------



## BubbaIBA

> Well I have finished most of my bench , now all I need is 4 guys to help me get it turned upright where I can finish the top. That thing is setting on top of my old bench and it is way too heavy for an old man to move.
> 
> - oltexasboy1


BTDT, This time I just had help getting the base off the old bench. When it came time to attach the slabs I had the base next to the old bench and was able to slide 'em in place. If it had been a turtle on top of the bench four would have been barely enough to do the deed.

ken


----------



## BubbaIBA

I'm a sucker for whatever is new or I guess in this case old. TFWW sent me a Moxon. I had to drill a new 3/4" dog hole to mount it which I did this AM. I'm not convinced it will be useful but….we will see if it earns its keep or finds a place to hang on the wall.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Looks useful in the pic;-)


----------



## terryR

Wow, I wish TFWW would send ME a Moxon! 

Bubba, just mail it to me when you feel it's in the way…am just about to build something similar!


----------



## BubbaIBA

Terry,

I thought about building from scratch but then it would have been forever before I got around to it….too many other projects in the pipeline.

I think I've found a home for it, it's now mounted on the old bench and for now it feels "right". I can make that bench or at least the end where the Moxon is mounted as a dedicated dove tail area without interfering with other work.

With the Moxon the board does not feel as solid under the saw as it does in the Paramo, it's not bad but it is a 'softer" feel when starting the cut. I would guess that should be expected, the Paramo is mounted solid to a near 500 lb. bench, the Moxon is setting on top of a 400 lb. bench and attatched by a couple of holdfasts.

I expect the Moxon will be like that well known "check", just keep checking your mail box .

ken


----------



## terryR

^ sounds good.

Looks like a massive span between TFWW's screws…20" or so? Yeah, that would take up 1/2 of my 5 foot long bench…trying to think of a better, permanent mount in my shop, too. That way, it gets used more frequently!


----------



## cherrywoodworker

Leave it the way it is, it gives one heck of a story to tell.


> it doesn t look as good now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Don W


----------



## Airframer

She has legs and vises. Just the deadman and a few details to take care of then sand/finish and baby bondo!


----------



## terryR

Very impressive work, Eric. Your kid is a lucky guy!

Love that shot with your leg vise next to the kid's bench!

Ummm…got bandaids?


----------



## bobro

That children's bench is the most awesome bench ever.

Is there a thread here specifically about vises? Finished a bench the other day, except for the vise and dog holes, kicking around some ideas.


----------



## jmartel

bobro: Try this one

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55258


----------



## Airframer

Just needs a bottom tray and some finish. The boy snuck out for s sneak peek this morning. I can say with certainty it is a hit!










And couldn't help myself.. best we are going to get out of him for a baby bondo lol… he kept looking at me like "WTF are you doing dad?" lol


----------



## duckmilk

Looks like he's trying to do a little break dance on top of it.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Ha, also looks like a 10-foot tall baby giant fell down on your full size bench.
What a great build.


----------



## upchuck

Airframer-

Nice baby bench. Nice boy. How tall are each of them?

chuck


----------



## woodcox

All smiles here Eric n junior nice work man!


----------



## duckmilk

> Ha, also looks like a 10-foot tall baby giant fell down on your full size bench.
> What a great build.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Nope, that's baby AF on Red's bench.


----------



## Airframer

> Ha, also looks like a 10-foot tall baby giant fell down on your full size bench.
> What a great build.
> 
> - ColonelTravis
> 
> Nope, that s baby AF on Red s bench.
> 
> - duckmilk


Haha! You caught me!


----------



## Mosquito

LOL Baby Bondo is awesome!


----------



## RPhillips

Nice build, baby bondo and all!


----------



## Airframer

> Airframer-
> 
> Nice baby bench. Nice boy. How tall are each of them?
> 
> chuck
> 
> - upchuck


iirc the bench is 18" tall and the boy is 33" tall.

I am hoping to have a shelf and finish on this tonight and should have a project post early next week sometime.


----------



## john2005

Friggen awesome!


----------



## bobro

> bobro: Try this one
> 
> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55258
> 
> - jmartel


Thanks- started on my vises today, lots of inspiration in that thread!


----------



## bobro

Okay, here's Little Lady, my new bench.

The bench features a bunch of joinery and construction approaches that I've been using in furniture for some years now:

-All wood glueless joinery
-Through-dovetailed pegged cross-laps
-"Viktor" through-dovetailed breadboard/end
-Shouldered pins
-Ganged pins and tenons

Minimal hand tools and cost of about 80 US dollars, about 30 hours into it so far.

I'll make one of those "blog" things here at "Lumberjocks", with drawings, photos and explanations, and my thinking behind the construction. Vices, dog holes etc in progress.


----------



## Buckethead

WOOT! Bench build of the century! 


> Just needs a bottom tray and some finish. The boy snuck out for s sneak peek this morning. I can say with certainty it is a hit!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And couldn t help myself.. best we are going to get out of him for a baby bondo lol… he kept looking at me like "WTF are you doing dad?" lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Airframer


----------



## Buckethead

Just saw yours too bobro… Very interesting work. Please link any blog posts into this thread!

Terry, your bench is looking good. I've been out so long, too many to comment on. Been trying to not spend so much time on the interwebs, but this is still the best thread in the cosmos.

Also: bubba, if I had seen that notched batten, I may have foregone the end vise altogether. It delayed my build significantly, and now seems superfluous. But is still looks cool, and serves well. ;-)


----------



## AnthonyReed

So completely cool AF. Right on man.


----------



## RPhillips

> Okay, here s Little Lady, my new bench.
> 
> The bench features a bunch of joinery and construction approaches that I ve been using in furniture for some years now:
> 
> -All wood glueless joinery
> -Through-dovetailed pegged cross-laps
> -"Viktor" through-dovetailed breadboard/end
> -Shouldered pins
> -Ganged pins and tenons
> 
> Minimal hand tools and cost of about 80 US dollars, about 30 hours into it so far.
> 
> I ll make one of those "blog" things here at "Lumberjocks", with drawings, photos and explanations, and my thinking behind the construction. Vices, dog holes etc in progress.
> 
> - bobro


Beautiful build!

Looking forward to the blog… and please, link it here.


----------



## bobro

Thanks, guys! I started the blog:

http://lumberjocks.com/first_blog_entries/634


----------



## Airframer

DONE! Just finished her up and posted.


----------



## richardwootton

That's so awesome buddy!


----------



## Airframer

Annnnnd it's a hit! Even got his little holdfast in the mail today


----------



## Hammerthumb

You set yourself up Eric. Your going to have to make an intermediate size in a couple of years!


----------



## DanKrager

"O darn!" he says. (Eric)
DanK


----------



## RPhillips

Eric will probably have bench #3 (the intermediate bench) done before I ever get mine completed.

Looks like the kid is enjoying it…awesome !


----------



## Airframer

> Eric will probably have bench #3 (the intermediate bench) done before Stef ever gets his completed.
> 
> - RPhillips


Fixed it!


----------



## jmartel

Eric will have the full sized bench #4 done for when mini-AF is a teenager before Stef finishes his bench.


----------



## RPhillips

Mini-AF will have bench #3 done before Stef…


----------



## richardwootton

> Eric will have the full sized bench #4 done for when mini-AF is a teenager before Stef finishes his bench.
> 
> - jmartel


I'm pretty sure Eric will have seven benches and a messiah will return before Stef starts posting pictures of that sweet reclaimed doug fir!


----------



## RPhillips

I'm going to start with my Leg Vise/Criss-Cross installation, hope I don't screw it up!


----------



## DanKrager

Stef has been way too quiet about his bench. I'll bet he's got it under construction as we speak and he'll lay da bomb on us on his day of choosing… bless his heart!
DanK


----------



## chrisstef

Stef's not talkin to you guys.


----------



## ToddJB

> Stef s not talkin to you guys.
> 
> - chrisstef


Mrs. Stef is doing your posting for you now? How cute.


----------



## RPhillips

> I did debate taking off more material to get rid of the burn marks and gouges, but there goes the character. My mother laughed when he saw the marks, made a comment about how it was probably him that burned it.
> 
> - alicejohny123


hmmmm….


----------



## Pezking7p

> Just needs a bottom tray and some finish. The boy snuck out for s sneak peek this morning. I can say with certainty it is a hit!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And couldn t help myself.. best we are going to get out of him for a baby bondo lol… he kept looking at me like "WTF are you doing dad?" lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Airframer


Looks like someone got a hold of Red's cameraman.


----------



## RPhillips

Got my mortises made for the Criss-Cross and hole drilled for the screw.

Now to located where to put the pins for the Criss-Cross.


----------



## BurlyBob

My first grandson is due tomorrow. My son, a Marine, wants Jr. to wait till the 10th. Either way, airframer, can't wait to build fun stuff like your bench. I'm mulling around a Pirate's chest toy box. I'm certain that the wife will let me get anything I need to build for Jr.


----------



## BurlyBob

My first grandson is due tomorrow. My son, a Marine, wants Jr. to wait till the 10th. Either way, airframer, can't wait to build fun stuff like your bench. I'm mulling around a Pirate's chest toy box. I'm certain that the wife will let me get anything I need to build for Jr.


----------



## Airframer

Bob I have found it MUCH easier to get permission to get supplies for builds for the kid than any other build lol.


----------



## theoldfart

^ I can confirm this for sure.


----------



## richardwootton

> Bob I have found it MUCH easier to get permission to get supplies for builds for the kid than any other build lol.
> 
> - Airframer


Note to self; 1) Find a wife. 2) Have a child with said wife. 3) Start buying lots of new tools and wood for "Jr's projects."


----------



## Airframer

Just add 3) Spend all your free time hiding from said wife and child in the shop working on "Jr's" projects. With that you have just described the evolution of man..


----------



## richardwootton

Haha! I might need to redact my previous statement.


----------



## BurlyBob

Just wish the wife was a little more understanding about me buying fishing gear and guns for Jr. I've been stocking up for him , almost 30 yrs now. Keep getting in the doghouse every time I bring something new home for Jr. Guess I should avoid trying them out before Jr gets a crack at them.


----------



## RPhillips

Quick question, any reason I should NOT reverse the "nut" on my leg vice and have it countered and flush opposed to just flush mounted? The benchcrafted instruction make no mention, but show it not sunk. I see no reason not to, but thought I'd give a shout out and see if I'm missing something.


----------



## CL810

Rob, I recessed mine. Not sure what you mean by reverse though.


----------



## Mosquito

Since I made my own, I just tapped the leg itself on mine, for what it's worth


----------



## RPhillips

This is what I was talking about… diagram calls for it to be installed as seen.

the pic's from Lysdexics build… funny, googled it to find an image and it brought me right back here. 

I decided to just go for it… couldn't think of any reason not to. Now, seeing that he did the same (for the same reasons), I feel better about my decision.


----------



## RPhillips

Trying to decide on putting in a bottom in my bench, going to sleep on it. Hope to have something that resembles a bench tomorrow.

Gotta also figure in the deadman, don't have a piece of wood for that right now, but I can make due with a substitute to get it everything else done regarding it.


----------



## john2005

Why would you sleep on the bottom of your bench? Can't be comfortable….


----------



## August

Thinking about giving the bench a facelift.
What are you guys thought on the a ready made,
Beech wood counter top?
Thinking about buying 2 piece and gluing them up?
I'm not happy anymore on the one I have.
The lyptus wood is a joke.
And so is the baltic birch plywood.









^ this is what I'm planning on buying?x2


----------



## terryR

August, looks like instant gratification compared to ripping a bunch of stock and laminating them together. Beech, huh? Should last a lifetime!

Plans for the lyptus? I love hand me downs…


----------



## oltexasboy1

O k , I finally got my bench finished , there will not be pics however , it is ugly but it works as well as any pretty bench made from oak or maple rather then home depot pine. I am actually amazed how much easier it is to work on a real bench instead of what I had . Maybe one of these days I will build another one that is better looking but for the near future I am well pleased with what I have . Thanks for the inspiration to build this bench.


----------



## DanKrager

OLtexasboy1, it doesn't matter to us how ugly you think your bench is. We see the beauty of heart behind hands that build things. We give guys a hard time that say they are going to build a bench and then don't. 
Now, post the picture, damkhit!
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, sayin' "gonna build a bench" then don't. Appalling ! Who would do that?

Ole Tex, the bench is secondary to what you make. I've been working on my bench for over a year so still using my bargain store beater. Still making furniture I'm happy with so keep on woodworking.


----------



## RPhillips

*OlTex*, don't worry about how it looks. I'm building mine using some crappy wood that I found at work, and let me tell you, it has been quite the adventure. Not a single piece of wood in my bench has grain that goes in only one direction. Not to mention the high moisture content. I have more tear-out than an old high school notebook. The wood has splits cracks and check everywhere you look. Not a whole lot of pretty here.

The good thing about this, I built it myself, learned a lot along the way and have been able to put the money I would have spent on wood into buying the tools I need to build the damn thing. I was fortunate enough to pick up Benchcrafted Leg Vise hardware, but other than that, the only cost to me was the gas to get the stuff home.

Building a bench without a bench is a chore. At least now if I decide to build another bench, I will have something solid to build it on, not to mention the experience and skills that I gained from this one. So take some and post them up. I bet your being much more critical of it than any of us would be.


----------



## August

Thanks TerryR 
Well your more than welcome to it.
I don't want this I. My shop.

Anyway I just recive a very good advice from a member glad I did not buy it yet.
I'll be going to a different store


----------



## BubbaIBA

> O k , I finally got my bench finished , there will not be pics however , it is ugly but it works as well as any pretty bench made from oak or maple rather then home depot pine. I am actually amazed how much easier it is to work on a real bench instead of what I had . Maybe one of these days I will build another one that is better looking but for the near future I am well pleased with what I have . Thanks for the inspiration to build this bench.
> 
> - oltexasboy1


I drove to Texas to pick up some of that Home Depot SYP for the bench build before the last one and I'm now in the process of helping a co-worker build one out of Home Depot DF. It's a work bench not fine furniture. Of course I have to admit the last build was a"pretty" Beech bench but the SYP one is still functioning and used every day.

BTW, I'll show you mine if you will show yours and we will see which is uglier .










The bench started off with a leg vise which I found too slow and fussy in use. I took the leg vise off and installed my old Paramo 52 set flush with the bench face. After using it in the flush position for a few months I re-installed it set off the face of the bench as you see in this photo. My experience is a metal QR vise works better set proud of the face. As always YMMV.

With the new beech bench build the Paramo QR followed to the new bench and I re-installed the leg vise on the SYP bench. My opinion of leg vises remains the same, too slow and fussy for a day to day vise, anything a leg vise can do my English QR metal vise will do as well, easier, and quicker with less monkey motion.

ken


----------



## donwilwol

> Thinking about giving the bench a facelift.
> What are you guys thought on the a ready made,
> Beech wood counter top?
> Thinking about buying 2 piece and gluing them up?
> I m not happy anymore on the one I have.
> The lyptus wood is a joke.
> And so is the baltic birch plywood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ this is what I m planning on buying?x2
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Why not got for one of these instead/

http://www.harborfreight.com/60-in-4-drawer-hardwood-workbench-69054.html










You might have to reinforce the frame, but that would be about it.


----------



## ssnvet

My opinion of leg vises remains the same, too slow and fussy for a day to day vise, anything a leg vise can do my English QR metal vise will do as well, easier, and quicker with less monkey motion.

I hear heresy!

:^p


----------



## August

Thanks Donw
I won't have room for a second bench in the small shop.
Anyway will see.
Christmas is coming maybe Santa will take care of me???

Hey TerryR
Take a look men!!!!!!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

August, those premade tops can save a guy a lot of time. Imo, it is better to buy them in person….and take a straight edge. For example menards has some finger-joint 5'x2' slabs. I took a staight edge to their stock- some were true, some were crooked as a question mark. Guessing they weren't dried properly prior to milling.

Grizzly sells some premade tops as well….but I've heard of people returning them because they were so warped.


----------



## BubbaIBA

> Thinking about giving the bench a facelift.
> What are you guys thought on the a ready made,
> Beech wood counter top?
> Thinking about buying 2 piece and gluing them up?
> I m not happy anymore on the one I have.
> The lyptus wood is a joke.
> And so is the baltic birch plywood.
> 
> ^ this is what I m planning on buying?x2
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III
> 
> Why not got for one of these instead/
> 
> You might have to reinforce the frame, but that would be about it.
> 
> - Don W


 Damn Don you are cruel. ROTFLMAO


----------



## BubbaIBA

> My opinion of leg vises remains the same, too slow and fussy for a day to day vise, anything a leg vise can do my English QR metal vise will do as well, easier, and quicker with less monkey motion.
> 
> I hear heresy!
> 
> :^p
> 
> - Mainiac Matt


In todays world you could be correct but…..someone has to speak truth to power, hey that guys got no clothes on .


----------



## terryR

Congrats on the Bad Axe, Auggie! A down payment or did ya find one you liked on the site?

I could sure use another bench in my shop…the 5 feet I have just gets clogged with stuff too easily…










...need a joinery bench to get saws away from planes! Mine don't get along! 

Kinda like that Harbor Freight option for instant gratification…just stick some 4×4's under it, and through the top!


----------



## August

He called me after 3 emails LOL
Anyway I'll be receiving it in 11-13
I'm happy priceyyyyyy but I like it I bought the 12" walnut hybrid with a over size handle.

TerryR mennnn
You have to lete make you a moxon hardware and screw?????


----------



## DanKrager

August, Take the top off the HF bench and put it on your legs. Maybe have to get two… 
DanK


----------



## August

^thabks Dank
That might be a bad idea
For the price it's the same in what I was about to buy.
And yes I do have to buy two.
And for the rest of the material I'll just use it for some project????
That might be a very good idea Dank.
Thanks like always 
And thanks for bringing that up DonW
Anyway I'm really not happy with the one I have.


----------



## RPhillips

This is about where I am…










Took it all apart after I took this pic to install the support strips for the shelf, route in the rabbet and install the wedge strip for the deadman. I also drilled the holes for the lag bolts. For the shelf, I'll probably just use some plywood for now, I'll replace it with something later when I pick up the wood for my deadman.

After the shelf's installed, I should be able glue and pin it. Then I'll shape the chop for my leg vise and flatten the top, fab up my tool trays, then followed by finish and Dog holes.


----------



## CL810

Looks great Rob.


----------



## richardwootton

Rob, that looks crazy awesome! Those beefy reclaimed legs are sexy as hell!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Leg vise = Slow and fussy. Would you provide a 'for instance' or two, where this was your experience? Very interested in the perspective you're offering.


----------



## jmartel

With the exception of the quick release function, I can't think of a place where the Leg vise isn't superior.


----------



## kiefer

Hi Guys
Now that we are on the ugly bench subject I thought it is safe to post my little bench.
The bench is made from SPF construction lumber wich I selected at the local lumber yard and it was fairly dry when I got it but did shrink a little just as I expected and the top will need to be flattend .
The bench has been a great addition to my shop and gets used daily and I don't treat it like it is a show piece but as a workbench just like the word implyes .
The vises on the bench are all of my own design ,the leg vise is quite different as it has no handle or hand wheel and is a type one lever and is foot operated and the end vise is a twin screw design that uses a cog belt rather then a chain which makes it a lot more quiet and in addition it also operates the tail vise .
Here are a couple of pics and I also attach a 18 min video the covers the bench as it is of now exept for the hand wheel that is made using a $10.00 weight lifting plate which is more in the affordeble range for me just like the rest of the bench .


----------



## widdle

Lookin good Rphillips..beefy..


----------



## widdle

Kiefer..brilliant..


----------



## yuridichesky

Kiefer, like your workbench and your vises very much! Great shop appliance!


----------



## BubbaIBA

> Leg vise = Slow and fussy. Would you provide a for instance or two, where this was your experience? Very interested in the perspective you re offering.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Sure, in my own shop the SYP bench has a leg vise (pre-crisscross) I work often on edge and face. It is much faster to go from one to the other with a QR vise. If the rollers need adjustment the vise will bind and the screw will be stiff to turn, the rollers need adjusting more often than expected. And there is the pin, it needs to be moved for each setting of the vise, no biggy if you always work the same size board, see first sentence.

All that could be dismissed as a bad install except I've seen it on other benches. Just a few weeks ago I was at Bad Axe Tool Works for a saw sharpening class and one of Mark's benches had a leg vise that showed the same problems.

I'm happy for the folks that like and find leg vises useable but the point I'm trying to make is there are other and maybe simpler or even better answers to work holding. Fashion always need someone on the sideline to yell "he ain't got no clothes".


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I can't agree or disagree with rollers being an issue, as I don't have that complex of a leg vise install. My pin board moves freely. The same pin location holds material from 1/2" through 3" or so, depending on what I have to do to the stuff, so the pin is not an issue.

For me, a leg vise is right for my work. I have a iron vise on the end of the bench; it's shallow and wracking is an issue, but like the leg vise I think it's good there. Not having either flush to the bench would definitely drive me nuts, I think.


----------



## Pezking7p

> Quick question, any reason I should NOT reverse the "nut" on my leg vice and have it countered and flush opposed to just flush mounted? The benchcrafted instruction make no mention, but show it not sunk. I see no reason not to, but thought I d give a shout out and see if I m missing something.
> 
> - RPhillips


If you do this, your vise will turn the wrong direction and the world will explode. Just kidding, everyone does it, looks a lot nicer.


----------



## Pezking7p

Kiefer, I think most of us are familiar with your vise designs! I intended to use your leg vise design on my bench but did not have time to sort out the design details and build it. Maybe in 2015.


----------



## terryR

Hell, last week one of the rollers came off my fancy parallel guide…leg vise still works fine! Cannot imagine a task where it slows me down. I use it on thin stock as well as 4" or larger just to mark centers for the lathe. Bending over to adjust the pin is really no effort compared to lifting stock, sawing, planing, etc. YMMV…

Another nice bench, Kiefer.

Rob, your build is very inspiring, and looks great! Every time I see a semi-truck loaded with 8×8" timbers, I think of you! Turns out we have a saw mill hidden in a steep valley about 8 miles away…all they cut is 8×8". Railroad ties, I guess? Would love a few BEFORE the chemicals go on…

August, I have all the Benchcrafted hardware for a better Moxon…just keep putting the build off.


----------



## August

Ok damnnnnn excuses me TerryR 
LOL

Anyway here is my problem.
I would like to replace the first 3feet of the bench with a solid wood.
The funish thickness is 2-3/4
By 5' long
Anybody here I can buy a wood from?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

August, have you checked this place out? It's where LJ Douglas gets his lumber in the Chicago area.

http://www.horiganufp.com/


----------



## August

^damn red thanks so much 
this is 2 miles from my house thanks


----------



## August

Thanks Red
I felt like I was in a candy store


----------



## bandit571

Leg vise in somewhat of use









Leather on the chop is from an old nail bag pouch.

Have since remade a router table, of sorts









A $3 B&D 2720, hanging from a $20 Skil table. Norm Abram wanna be?


----------



## merrill77

> Leg vise in somewhat of use


That's kinda terrifying.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Cool August. Glad you found a close lumber source.


----------



## jmartel

> That s kinda terrifying.
> 
> - merrill77


Yeah….

Can't say I'd be willing to do that, myself.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Flattened my top, squared my legs (I sound like a Lego Man) and I'm ready to do some major work tomorrow putting everything together and the temperature tonight is gonna drop 30+ glue-hating degrees. Really ticks me off, it's supposed to stay like this for as far as the weatherman can see. It was 10 billion degrees this summer, then it was 70 for about two weeks and now it's winter. Total BS.

Does an oil space heater work well for an non-insulated garage?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

RE: Oil space heaters. Been there, tried it, was better than nothing.


----------



## RPhillips

> Thanks Red
> I felt like I was in a candy store
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Auggie, take I-65 south and drop those bad boys off at my place!

Nice score!


----------



## richardwootton

What did you get Auggie?


----------



## richardwootton

Someone could build a great bench from this stock! It might be a bit pricey, but hey, it'd sure be pretty!
http://littlerock.craigslist.org/mat/4753997909.html


----------



## August

Lol Rob
Red found me a store 3 miles from my house they move in without me knowing LOL

Thanks Richard it's white oak men quater sawn
Hey rich I bought the badaxe hybrid 12" saw


----------



## August

Men I don't know if I want to use this for the bench top this stuff looks great


----------



## rantingrich

I love looking at how everyone makes a BENCH that suites them.


----------



## Iguana

> I love looking at how everyone makes a BENCH that suites them.
> 
> - rantingrich


Sweetly suits them, too


----------



## grfrazee

@Red, thanks for that link to Horigan. They're a little farther from my apartment than August's (about 30 miles), but I've been looking for a good hardwood supplier in the Chicagoland area.


----------



## August

^ hey Niegbor 
Where abouts you are In IL?


----------



## terryR

Yeah, been running the A/C in my shop for two months so I can keep it under 90 degrees inside…but within a span of 10 days…the A/C was turned off, fans used to bring in outside air, NOW the heat is on! Crazy weather. I've even had to re-rig my warming closet to keep finishes and glue from spoiling.

Also got a small oil heater for this season. You guys wouldn't believe how COLD it gets in the mountains of N.Alabama!

Hey, Red, please find a hardware store within an hour of MY house! I dare ya! LOL!










August, that's some pretty oak, buddy! Will make a gorgeous bench! How thick is your mdf top? What don't you like about it? Just curious…


----------



## j1212t

QWSO is soo beautiful indeed, I love it.


----------



## August

Your a crazy man TerryR


----------



## john2005

> This is about where I am…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Took it all apart after I took this pic to install the support strips for the shelf, route in the rabbet and install the wedge strip for the deadman. I also drilled the holes for the lag bolts. For the shelf, I ll probably just use some plywood for now, I ll replace it with something later when I pick up the wood for my deadman.
> 
> After the shelf s installed, I should be able glue and pin it. Then I ll shape the chop for my leg vise and flatten the top, fab up my tool trays, then followed by finish and Dog holes.
> 
> - RPhillips


Glass half full for sure! Lookin sweet!


----------



## August

Oh huh that was a drinking glass
I thought it was stain????


----------



## August

Jake yeah I know right.
But now I'm having seconds thoughts of using it.
I might just use my HM instead???


----------



## jmartel

> Glass half full for sure! Lookin sweet!
> 
> - john2005


A pessimist views the glass as half-empty.
An optimist views the glass as half-full.
An engineer views the glass as twice as large as it needs to be.


----------



## Tony1212

> @Red, thanks for that link to Horigan. They re a little farther from my apartment than August s (about 30 miles), but I ve been looking for a good hardwood supplier in the Chicagoland area.
> 
> - grfrazee


Not sure where you're at, grfrazee, but I go to Owl Hardwood Lumber. They have 3 locations in the Chicago area, Lombard, Des Plaines, and Oak Lawn. One of these locations might be closer to you than Skokie.

I'm in the southwest suburbs, so I usually hit the one in Lombard since it's straight up I-355.


----------



## dbray45

Terry - cut your own wood, will be ready for a drying room by next fall.


----------



## terryR

^David, we have 95+ acres of standing hardwood…there actually used to be a mill on the property about 40 years ago! If I weren't soooo afraid of chainsaws, I would be making payments on a WoodMizer right now. 

But, since we hope to move…must buy lumber…


----------



## Mosquito

Terry, just cut down all the trees and bring them with you


----------



## August

Yeah men on to my new bench too build


----------



## ToddJB

New bench? Yesterday it was just a top. Are you going for a full blown bench, now? You could probably make your money back in scrap value if you junk your other one


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> @Red, thanks for that link to Horigan. They re a little farther from my apartment than August s (about 30 miles), but I ve been looking for a good hardwood supplier in the Chicagoland area.
> 
> - grfrazee
> 
> Not sure where you re at, grfrazee, but I go to Owl Hardwood Lumber. They have 3 locations in the Chicago area, Lombard, Des Plaines, and Oak Lawn. One of these locations might be closer to you than Skokie.
> 
> I m in the southwest suburbs, so I usually hit the one in Lombard since it s straight up I-355.
> 
> - Tony1212


Now you've got another lumber source August. I knew there had to be some options in the Chicago area.


----------



## August

Lol Todd 
Damn I phone 
I ment to type on to my bench top

Thanks so much for all the help Red
Anyway now I can sleep I have a wood LOL


----------



## ColonelTravis

Making something brings satisfaction, but for the first time I'm making something with only hand tools and the satisfaction is through the roof. Correction - I used a table saw to rip boards but that's it. Milled everything by hand and I just love this way of work.

Most the parts are ready to put together just haven't put them together. Got a real oddball glue-up for the top but those are how the straightest boards ended up. Bench will be about 6 feet long, top is 3 inches thick. I'm not unhappy I used SYP but this is probably the first and last time I make something this substantial out of it. Even though I ripped 2×10s and kept them stickered in the garage for a few months, the bending and twisting and cupping and this-ing and that-ing after cutting was annoying. But I learned a lesson - cut it and use it immediately or else face the warpy consequences.


----------



## RPhillips

Travis, I can relate to your woes… the wood for my top moved quite a bit…


----------



## August

Well since reading some woodworking books been learning a few thing,.
Anyway copied this in one of the project not done yet.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Noticed your dozuki or dozuki-ish saw there, August. Picked one up for the heck of it. I couldn't use it as a dovetail saw but for other stuff I really like it. Never had one before. Is that what you used for your triangle? Looks super clean.


----------



## wormil

What am I seeing in this picture? It's from an old book, Farm Woodwork by Louis Michael Roehl, 1919.

Looks like the leg vise is fixed with angled braces. How does that work?



















Begins at page 16, vise detail on page 22:
http://books.google.com/books?id=KpkBAAAAYAAJ&dq=subject%3A%22Woodwork%20(Manual%20training)%22&pg=PA17#v=onepage&q&f=true


----------



## richardwootton

I'm curious to see what the better informed have to say on this one. I can't see a decent way to edge joint stock using that bench. Maybe this bench is more of an artist rendering, or more of a handyman type bench? I don't really get how that vise works, either…


----------



## donwilwol

The vise moves as a unit. The angle piece keeps the leg parallel by riding under the top.

I've not seen that design before. Interesting!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> The vise moves as a unit. The angle piece keeps the leg parallel by riding under the top.
> 
> - Don W


+1 to that.


----------



## merrill77

> Looks like the leg vise is fixed with angled braces. How does that work?


The top inside corner is not attached to the bench.

Now that I look at it that way, I'm wondering why I haven't seen more of that design…seems like it could work very well. It must not work well in practice, or we'd have seen it more.


----------



## August

Yes colonel
It does produces a very clean cut on hard wood or soft.
The only thing that I don't like is the teeth breakes off but it's a given since the metal is very thin.
I like it.


----------



## August

On the other note

Looks like benchcrafted 
Made a handle that looks my design?


> ?


----------



## JayT

> Yes colonel
> It does produces a very clean cut on hard wood or soft.
> The only thing that I don t like is the teeth breakes off but it s a given since the metal is very thin.
> I like it.
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


How much use has yours gotten? I have an identical dozuki that I really like and have yet to break off a tooth. I have, however, broken a blade right at the tip of the back when it bound up in a cut. Poor technique, not the saw's fault-I had to learn how to properly use a Japanese saw and haven't had the same problem since making a couple adjustments.


----------



## August

I've had it for some time now,.
I have cut long thick hardwood with it. And I have to give credit it produce a very clean cut
Like this lyptus here 3"wide by 1-1/14 thick
Now the tooth might be my fault it's always my fault LOL


----------



## merrill77

I have a pretty strong preference for a Japanese-style (pull) saw for precision work. But I've found you really need to let the saw do the work. If you push it hard, like you might a Western saw, broken teeth seem to be inevitable. Especially if you are cutting in such as way that only a few teeth are engaged at a time - such as cutting something very narrow or changing the angle of attack while in a cut. YMMV.


----------



## Sylvain

RickM,

IMO, the two 17" horizontal batten are acting as the two rods of a metal vise
and
the top of the oblique ones must be skating under the workbench top.

Edit: the last part was already pointed to by DonW


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Now that I look at it that way, I m wondering why I haven t seen more of that design…seems like it could work very well. It must not work well in practice, or we d have seen it more.
> 
> - merrill77


Email this to Schwarz. It will be on every bench in America in 2015.


----------



## richardwootton

^The man speaks the truth!


----------



## donwilwol

> Now that I look at it that way, I m wondering why I haven t seen more of that design…seems like it could work very well. It must not work well in practice, or we d have seen it more.
> 
> - merrill77
> 
> Email this to Schwarz. It will be on every bench in America in 2015.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Not every one!


----------



## wormil

> The vise moves as a unit. The angle piece keeps the leg parallel by riding under the top.
> 
> I ve not seen that design before. Interesting!
> 
> - Don W


Yeah I found it interesting. And here I thought we had explored every possible way to keep a leg vise parallel.


----------



## ColonelTravis

That farm book is interesting. At least one high school somewhere used that vice on a bench for 6 people.









Also has plans for little folding bench that could come in handy


----------



## August

Hey all 
This will bey first to glue up a few boards to make a slad.
I want a fniah 2-3/4 finish thickness.
What should be the boards be during clamp mode?


----------



## kiefer

Rick
That farm vise has some potential and I have been thinking about it all day, it has me intrigued and the wheels are turning .

Klaus


----------



## wormil

My first thought was to install skateboard wheels on the end of the angled brackets but that would be counterproductive since it would decrease grip. I'm anxious to see what you come up with Kiefer.

The book has some nice projects. Unfortunately the download version is all blank pages after the cover, for me anyway.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Rick, check out the PDF at the archive.org version, no blank pages


----------



## one19

> I got bit by a brown recluse a few weeks back and I've been dealing with that. It's not so much painful as it is inconvenient for me. At least this bite wasn't as severe as the last recluse bite I got.
> - richardwootton


Wait… you've been bitten by a brown recluse twice in your life? Crikey!


----------



## August

Colonel that's something I might want to build along the wall where tools are hung???
Anyway here a quick drawing I made



























I love it more steel and brass work for me LOL


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

August - I would guess the horizontal wood pieces should be co-planer with the vise screw. More depth to clamping, and forces line up.


----------



## August

Hey smithy 
This was just something I drew up on the fly.
But my software does some amazing stuff.
If it's below the screw it will lessen the strength.
But this is just the drawing board.
I really like what Red did in his wall where he called it his joinery bench.
And I want something like that.
And also Im thinking of making it almost the same as the book shows.
Not sure but it's something that I ********************.
Anyway will see.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You've got incredible skill with metal work, woodwork and sketchup, August. Not a critique at all. The vise fascinates me, too.


----------



## August

oh no smitty no problem bud.
me too i like stuff like this.
anyway one thing is for sure thou metal have to be incorporated somehow for strength.???


----------



## donwilwol

I'm thinking a wheel on the piece that rides the top.


----------



## August

That's Right Donw 
More like a roller bearing to be more smooth?


----------



## ColonelTravis

Agree with Don. Also, does anyone see any potential racking problems? Or would that 45 degree angle would take care of that?


----------



## Airframer

Looking at the design it seems that this was short lived due to the face vise being a simpler version of the same thing. While this looks like it would act like a leg vise you miss out on the power portion of the leg vise which is the pinch point on the top of the jaw and the workbench. This looks like it would pinch towards the screw if you were to really tighten it down. Whereas with the leg vise, depending on where the pin is set will tend to pinch on the top of the vise holding the work piece tighter when cranked. Just my extremely uneducated evaluation..


----------



## Airframer

logjam..


----------



## donwilwol

It would be hard go keep it flush under pressure. I think the force downward would be to hard to control.


----------



## ToddJB

If you tilted the leg vise out at the bottom by say 2 degrees, and had the back of the brace ride right up against the bottom of the benchtop, wouldn't it act as a wedge when you tightened the vise by cramming the back of the 45 into the bottom of the benchtop?


----------



## kiefer

August
Could you post that Sketchup drawing on Sketchup Warehouse and give us the link please .
I would love to play with it .

Klaus


----------



## donwilwol

> If you tilted the leg vise out at the bottom by say 2 degrees, and had the back of the brace ride right up against the bottom of the benchtop, wouldn t it act as a wedge when you tightened the vise by cramming the back of the 45 into the bottom of the benchtop?
> 
> - ToddJB


You're right Todd, and all that stress is applied to the horizontal piece inside a hole in the bench. I'm not sure it would take it.


----------



## August

> August
> Could you post that Sketchup drawing on Sketchup Warehouse and give us the link please .
> I would love to play with it .
> 
> Klaus
> 
> - kiefer


I use solid works 
How do I do that?
I'm working on it.
And I like what you said awhile ago.
I too like this style.

I was doing fine until you guys posted this LOL


----------



## john2005

I think Eric has a good point. It seems like a cool idea, but it looses the power of the leg vise.


----------



## kiefer

Sorry August I thought you were using Sketchup .
May have to get my buddy Alex if he could help me out, he did the drawing on my leg vise I posted some time ago .

Klaus


----------



## August

^sorry men.
Anyway I think that this will be something to fool around with?


----------



## kiefer

*You've got incredible skill with metal work, woodwork and sketchup, August. Not a critique at all. The vise fascinates me, too.*
Smitty posted this that's were the Sketchup came in .

Klaus


----------



## richardwootton

I think it would be cool to see a few mock ups to see how it could work out with a few different variables in play. I was also thinking, instead of using a roller, what about a sheet of the plastic stuff those cheap cutting boards are made of screwed into the underside of the bench top, to glide against for reduced friction?


----------



## DanKrager

August, maybe you could export to a file that Sketchup could read?

DanK


----------



## lateralus819

Kiefer. It's just the vise, and one or two measurements may be off. Even with my good young eyes, it is tough to read some of the numbers.

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u655f6b44-d729-4f92-907b-8f4177fb9887


----------



## wormil

I also posted it here:
http://lumberjocks.com/wormil/blog/43152

I'm glad this sparked curiosity because it sure sparked mine. I'd love to build a version for testing.


----------



## kiefer

Thanks Kevin
I appreciate you doing this and I will play with it and may build a mock up of this .
I have been playing with a different vise idea and this seems to be sort of a missing link .
We will see what becomes of it .

Klaus


----------



## kiefer

Thanks for getting this going Rick .
I am enjoying this a lot and got my wheels turning .

Klaus


----------



## lateralus819

No problem. Glad to help.


----------



## BubbaIBA

> Now that I look at it that way, I m wondering why I haven t seen more of that design…seems like it could work very well. It must not work well in practice, or we d have seen it more.
> 
> - merrill77
> 
> Email this to Schwarz. It will be on every bench in America in 2015.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


ROTFLMAO….so true, so true.


----------



## Tony1212

It seems like it would be fine for smaller pieces of work, but if you need to work on a wide board, you're kind of limited by the support brackets to the left and right the screw. With a traditional leg vice, you could have a board rest on the floor and still clamp it with half of the the vice chop up to the screw. Can't do that with this vice unless its thin enough to fit between the screw and side support beam.


----------



## wormil

I'm thinking you could narrow the bracket, bring them closer to the screw.


----------



## kiefer

I made a full size plan today and I think it will work.
It's not quite like this setup but a quick release vise very similar to this .
I will work on it in the next few days and see if it will work.
The thing that I am shooting for is a inexpensive and easy to build vise that a novice can make .
I hope some others are working on this .

Klaus


----------



## August

^very nice men 
If I'm not making a new top for my bench








I'm really shooting for the one in the picture 









I wanted to start on my wall of tools.


----------



## DanKrager

Thanks for reposting that picture, August. It reminded me to ask, does anyone see a deadman on that bench?
I think I do…no it's not a ghost Bondo. It sorta looks like a drawer????
DanK


----------



## wormil

The front apron has dog holes for pegs or hold fasts except that apron is pretty thin for a hold fast.


----------



## RPhillips

Looks like with the design of that leg vise you loose the ability to hold a longer board vertically…or at least that's how it appears to me.


----------



## Sylvain

RPhillips,
This dépends of the chop design.
If you make it wider at the top (T shape) it would be comparable to a steel vise with its two rods.


----------



## ColonelTravis

August, not to knock your build choice, just to add something that may or may not be helpful, AskWoodman built a bench kind of like that farmer one except it's more narrow. His YouTube build series is massive.

I was impressed by how versatile it is. I think he has a moxon to attach to it? Maybe I'm wrong but I thought he made a portable vice to go on it.


----------



## john2005

^clever, but am I the only one feeling like he went through a lot of trouble to make something less versatile? Don't misunderstand, I totally appreciate his thinking outside the box. It's not a bad idea….


----------



## wormil

Woodman's bench is a sawhorse on steroids, with vises. I like it though and would probably use something like that often.


----------



## ToddJB

I think it looks cool, but I'm not sure the argument of space saver can by made as the splayed legs make it only a little more narrow than a regular bench. It does take less wood, and wouldn't be as heavy if you need to move it often.


----------



## August

Yeah I made those moxon for his bench colonel 
And more.

Agree with you Todd


----------



## ColonelTravis

So August are you gonna do the mystery leg vice there, too?
Or did I misunderstand and you're just doing the tool hanger in the background?
Or go nuts and do the bench and tool hanger ? ! ? !


----------



## August

We'll here how's my shop look right now.


















Yes I want to copy it exact 
I'm basically coping the BigRed wall and his bench he calls it joinery bench 
But off course mine will be a bigginer style I'm not a woodworker just a wannabe 
Ps edit 
I already have the wall its I ky pine but I'm happy for now no money for reall wood









.
Anyway Allan gave me the plywood and the 7" lyptus for my bench.
I'm not satisfied with the way it feels and look now so I'm making a new top for my bench


----------



## August

Well cheap action shot from the shop


----------



## RPhillips

Auggie doin' work!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I likey.


----------



## RPhillips

Well I finally go something that resembles a bench. Got the bench assembled, pinned and the top bolted down. Got my chop cut, shaped, and re-installed. Still got to get the top flat, dog holes drilled, and tool trays built, but man, it feels pretty good.

Lessons learned…

When I started shaping the chop, I pulled the screw out of the chop and I found RUST!!!! on my brand new BenchCrafted screw! Man that really sucks. I even coated it with the Boeing rust preventor before installing, but it still did stop it from happening. The wood that I'm using on my bench jsut has too much moisture. I knew it was a little moist, but since the screw wasn't touching any wood, I didn't think much about it.

Sucks to find out this way that I should have waited longer to allow the wood to fully dry, but I didn't know better. The first sign was a while back when I squaring up the pieces for my top, I left my hand planes on there over night and found rust on the side of the plane that was laying on the wood. Then, when I was cutting the stretchers, I left the stretchers on my table saw and I found a rust spot the next day. At this point I knew, but it was too late to turn back.

Hopefully my bench will hold up. I learned a valuable lesson, and fortunately, it didn't really cost me much other than a little surface rust.


----------



## August

damn that sucks men.
Me too learning a lot with this wood stuff
I know for metal I don't have to worry if it's dry LOL


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Hopefully my bench will hold up. I learned a valuable lesson, and fortunately, it didn t really cost me much other than a little surface rust.
> 
> - RPhillips


Work with the bench for a year. Let it dry, chill, acclimate. Then flatten stuff again if needed. It'll be fine. Call it character.

We all battle rust. As long as you don't leave it for years and let it pit…no biggie.


----------



## August

^yeah I bet red has sown rust on his LN collection. I bet it's no biggie????
LOL

Damn rust boy it's bad ebough in plane iron let alone cast iron


----------



## ColonelTravis

The BigRed wall is awesome. I don't have the room in the garage for that but I would love to.
Love the cheap action shot, August! You're a man on a mission, love that, too.

That's three loves in one comment. Need some hard liquor to knock the sappy out of me.


----------



## terryR

Nice work, Auggie! I just love stacks of fresh, square lumber…
Your bench will be much improved, and your work, too!
The Wall is looking fine…IF only I had vertical walls…

Rob, thanks for sharing ALL you learn. Sounds like we both battle rust part-time.
A little rust on a LN won't hurt it…although I've nearly rubbed the bronze off my 42's lever cap.


----------



## August

Lol Terry
I have other toys that need rust checking too


----------



## terryR

^nice!
Deserves a special till…


----------



## August

^ lol
TerryR men we really need to have that whiskey shot together men


----------



## donwilwol

> ^ lol
> TerryR men we really need to have that whiskey shot together men
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Talking guns, planes and tools over a good bourbon, now that's worth a series!


----------



## RPhillips

> ^ lol
> TerryR men we really need to have that whiskey shot together men
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III
> 
> Talking guns, planes and tools over a good bourbon, now that s worth a series!
> 
> - Don W


Amen!

August, nice collection you have there. I have a few of those myself.


----------



## RPhillips

Got my bench top flattened. I was about a 1/4" off in the worst case. I went with the router and sled method. Glad I did, the wood I'm using for the top is far from forgiving. I can't seem to plane it without major tear out. Grain just goes every wihich way, and knots, did I mention the knots…

I'll be ROS'ing the crap out of this thing until it's good.


----------



## August

Yeah thanks
I call them insurance policy
I have 2 girls 
So I need to stack up.

Lol


----------



## August

This was drop off to the wrong address I have it if anyone is expecting it


----------



## CL810

> This was drop off to the wrong address I have it if anyone is expecting it
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Wrong indeed! It was suppose to come here - you should still have my address so send it on its way. Lol


----------



## August

Hell lat is already giving me ******************** asking me if it came with the anti-bend grease LOL

His a funny man 
I have anti bend shelves I don't think he has seen one before
Just ask TerryR he has one tooo

I'll check what's inside CL


----------



## Iguana

Auggie, pine is real wood and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

<* Mark just finished the bottle of Old Grand-Dad's and is now moving onto the Booker's *>


----------



## ssnvet

Looks like someone has been bit by the mil-surp bug…. And gone over to the dark side as well.

All hope is lost :^p


----------



## RPhillips

Dog Holes

Trying to figure out how I want to layout my dog holes. As of right now, I don't have an end vise, but I am considering adding one. I'm thinking about 5"-6" spacing along the front edge. Then I want add some in the middle, probably about the same as the front edges spacing, but only going every other one.

Does 6" seem to widely spaced?


----------



## August

^thats where I'm at in the bench dog hole?


> Deciding if I want them on the first half of the bench.
> Now for the distance I don't know much about bench design
> But I do know threads
> It all depends on how much your tail vise will travel
> And how much lead start will it have


?


----------



## CL810

> Does 6" seem to widely spaced?
> 
> - RPhillips


Mine are 6" and I would not go any wider.


----------



## Mosquito

It's greatly dependent on your end/wagon/tail vise. My dog holes are 4" apart, and my wagon vise has about 6" of travel.


----------



## DanKrager

A small consideration of dog hole spacing is if you plan to use hold fasts and what their reach is. There is nothing more frustrating (in my imagination because I don't have hold fasts) than not being able to reach a short piece with a second hold fast when needed!
Just a thought.
DanK


----------



## Pezking7p

6" is too much. I put mine about 3.5" apart to save on vise travel.


----------



## RPhillips

Something like this for hole arrangement. I will have to omit a few of those holes where they intersect with the supporting members, but hopefully I can avoid them. My legs are around 5" sq.

Since I'm still new to all this, I"m not sure what I want/need so I figured I'd start with a leg vise and holdfasts. I'll add an end/tail vise later depending on my needs.


----------



## Mosquito

Honestly, I'd try to figure out what you want for an end vise before you go too far. Adding a tail vise or wagon vise after making the bench may be a pain…

Also, that's a lot of holes. I have my front row of dogs, and then a row of holes for a holdfasts. What's the plan for using the bench dogs?


----------



## Dezza

Nice benches guys. Mine is still under production.


----------



## RPhillips

Thinking about something similar to this for my end vise.


----------



## BubbaIBA

> Something like this for hole arrangement. I will have to omit a few of those holes where they intersect with the supporting members, but hopefully I can avoid them. My legs are around 5" sq.
> 
> Since I m still new to all this, I"m not sure what I want/need so I figured I d start with a leg vise and holdfasts. I ll add an end/tail vise later depending on my needs.
> 
> - RPhillips


While others will differ, I find tail vises unnecessary, slow, a pain to use, a pain to install and in fact can lead to bowing and errors in your work. There are better ways to hold work. Also you might want to re-think all the dog holes, there are three reasons for dog holes, to use for stops, for holdfasts, and for dogs to use with a tail vise. With no tail vise there is little need for a row of dog holes along the front of the bench. You will find just a few well placed dog holes is all you need with holdfasts and add a couple or so more for your stops.

Here is a fairly current photo of my bench, no tail vise and a small number dog holes places off the front edge. I can't think of a time I've missed either a tail vise or more dog holes.










Build your bench, once built place dog holes where needed as needed, don't over think.

BTW, I'm anti-leg vise as well so you might want to question my advice .

ken


----------



## kiefer

I reworked my bench and the dogoles became a problem when I built my new end and tail vise as you can see in the picture ! 
I went from rectengular holes to round holes but I am not worryed about the spacing as I have a 12" travel in the end vise which also acts on the tail vise ging it also a !2" travel .







!
Reworking the bench for these vises took me aboout a day but in the end it was well worth it .
The FARM LEG Vise that was recently on this thread is something that I am working on as I find some og the design very interesting and I hope to make some improvements to its strenght but keep it simple .
May have it ready this week if all goes well .

Klaus


----------



## john2005

Re: Dog holes. I put a single strip down the edge of my bench, 3" in and spaced 4" apart. I thought I could always add more once I found where the need was. Turns out, that's all I have ever needed. Face work is easy with a dog on either end, using the tail vise. Edge work is done in a leg vise supported by a deadman. You don't have to hold it on six sides to work it. If its a shorter piece I am working with, I clamp a planing stop to the back of the bench and work it that way. Hope that helps


----------



## RPhillips

No one likes the Swiss cheese bench top, huh? lol

Yeah that is a bit much on the holes. Think I got a little more involved in the sketch-up aspect of it than it's functionality.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

A very good reason for an end vise is security a mitre box. I've tried the bench hook method, didn't like it. And using hold-fasts didn't go well either; whacking those tight put shock through the mitre, I needed a longer base board and it did move in use.

It's true that pinching work too hard can bow the workpiece; one of the things you learn over time is how little clamping force is actually needed.

Long story short(er), no swiss cheese. I was without an end vise for quite a while before adding one, and wouldn't want to go back. I do wish mine were a wagon vise vs. what I have, but even then I'd have to admit I'd lose some versatility in the switch. There's no joy having longer stock slide around while face planing when a simple turn of the end vise secures the piece. Tried the Veritas bench pup as an alternative, but it's not suited to thinner stock at all.

I read somewhere that the line of dogholes should be spaced at half the distance of travel for the end vise. Rule of thumb, your mileage may vary.


----------



## RPhillips

I too would like to have a wagon vise (this was my original thought, considered the V8 wedge vise) but I didn't feel that I had the skills/tools to make the wedge vise.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Rob, I would start with one row like John's. You can always add one more later. I added a row in the first year, but that was because I didn't put the holes close enough to the front of my bench.

I always wonder how people without end vises get perpendicular to their work. I do it all the time. Like this:









Imo Rob, you'll really like the quick release end vise.


----------



## terryR

+1 to considering the tail vise layout before drilling holes. I think Smitty's rule of 1/2 the screw travel makes sense!

Now, I want a tail vice badly…like the ?Veritas version Rob showed above…but don't have a well placed dog hole to match the end vise. Will add more…swiss cheese is OK by me. 

Since I got a pair of bench pups and a brass dog for my b-day, I've been using the pups a LOT. Something else to consider…since they make a decent vise mid-bench.

Hey, I even turned some bench dog HOLES this weekend!


----------



## August

glad im not the only one here having thoughts of having a tail vise or wagon vise
question
what would be the difference between tail vise and wagon vise?

because im planning on making my own.
here i have the materials out .


----------



## CL810

August, Eric's blog is great read on wagon vises. It starts here.


----------



## terryR

^Excellent blog!

Also a good read…

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workbench_(woodworking)#End_vises

I'm guessing…a wagon vise involves chopping out part of your benchtop for a captured block, end vise does not. Advantages are discussed on above page…


----------



## Mosquito

I think it depends on definition of tail vise…

To me… 

End ViseVise with a chop that moves on the end of the bench, usually mounted to the bench rather than part of itTail ViseVise where the front/end corner of the bench moves as the vise. With a row of dog holes, and a space to clamp boards between moving section and bench. No vise screw(s) in the way, and the vise screw usually moves out with the vise "chop".Wagon ViseA sled that rides in a section of the bench with a dog hole (or dog holes). Can be made so the vise screw uses a garter plate and the screw doesn't move in/out of the bench


----------



## August

Cool thanks all
Yeah I'll make a wagon vise
I just ordered some 3/4-6 acme from zoro-tools
And I'll be using 2 sleeve bearings for the guides

Thanks 
Now should I go rounds dogs or square?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

+1 to Mos' definitions above.


----------



## Mosquito

I believe square vs round dogs comes down to a personal preference myself.

I went with round dogs for a few reasons

Easier to add after making the bench (or if bench is a solid slab like mine was)
Can also be used for holdfasts
Easier to make dogs (for me anyway. I used 3/4" maple dowel, and cut them to length, then cut a flat face on part)
Can use other hold downs and bench accessories (like Veritas Bench Dogs/Pups, and hold down)

I could see going with square dogs for a few reasons too, though

Just as easy to laminate the holes into the bench top if you're doing a glue-up for the top
Won't turn while in use (could also be a disadvantage, depending on how you have things set up)
Easier to true up the dogs to fit the dog hole just right

Others can probably chime in better on the square dogs, as I haven't used them.  I do like my round dogs, for what it's worth


----------



## DanKrager

NOOOOOO, August, NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Don't restart the round vs square debate! 
Pick one and surprise us because the long and short of it is personal preference…

I for one support your intent to build a wagon vise. Rob, I did a wagon vise so simple that you could do it in about 30 minutes with only hand tools. Laminate three boards, leaving the center one short and cut at a slant for the wedge. Make your wedge after you laminate the three boards flatways after fitting a dovetailed thick piece on the end for the wedge anvil. It's pretty slick, really, and mine is built from scraps. Cost=time.

I've always wondered, Mos, if the definition of a wagon vise should somehow include wheels…
DanK


----------



## Mosquito

if you add a track and bearings, there's your wheels! lol


----------



## terryR

Hmmm…never seen a wagon WITHOUT wheels…would just be a sled! 

A sled vise?

Pics or it didn't happen…was turning some cherry for bench dogs, but after trimming one end off…










...they fit perfectly in the holes to keep tiny valuables from falling into never, never land! Gonna market them as 'Dog Holes' and make a fortune! LOL!


----------



## jmartel

Now make them with a springed wooden piece so they stay at whatever height you put them at.

Also, the chamfered edge is going to get squared off pretty quickly I bet.


----------



## richardwootton

Terry, I like seeing the little notes on your bench top. I do that all the time, and I'm glad to see I'm not alone.


----------



## August

> Hmmm…never seen a wagon WITHOUT wheels…would just be a sled!
> 
> A sled vise?
> 
> Pics or it didn t happen…was turning some cherry for bench dogs, but after trimming one end off…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...they fit perfectly in the holes to keep tiny valuables from falling into never, never land! Gonna market them as Dog Holes and make a fortune! LOL!
> 
> - terryR


New saw
TerryR?


----------



## ssnvet

I checked the moisture content on the Hickory cants I resawed down to 2×4 rough…. 22% without correction.

I'm wondering how long it will be b4 I can start jointing and planning them down for use in the new bench top.


----------



## john2005

Purpleheart tote. Do tell


----------



## terryR

Matt, think shop kiln…dehumidifier-based. A 2×4" frame covered with tarps for insulation…any size you want. A heat lamp heats the inside until moisture begins seeping from the wood, dehumid kicks on, and the motor from the dehumid keeps everything running…

I bought the plans from another LJ who sells them on eBay for about $25, so probably shouldn't give away too many details from his plans. But, I've seen this goofy kiln work! Will search for a link to share…I guarantee it's worth a $25 investment in everyone's shop that waits on wood to dry!!!

August, just replacing the awful, painted tote on my Tyzack back saw…slowly over a 4 month period! 

Richard, you are certainly NOT alone amongst this group. LOL! Truth is, my bench has so much filth on the top, and a slight cup, I think it's time to sharpen the No.7 and re-flatten the beast. I've noticed the guys with Maple and Bubinga benches don't tend to draw on the surfaces as much.


----------



## bobro

> I always wonder how people without end vises get perpendicular to their work.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I made my front vise a simple twin-screw vise like a "Moxon" vise but in the usual front vise position, not up top, and made it removable. So the front vise can go on either the left or right corner, and the bench edges are flush with the leg. That means I can position myself perpendicular either way.

Going to make all my vises removable, with optional positions.


----------



## terryR

DIY Shop Kiln Plans…$20…

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wood-Kiln-Plans-for-small-scale-lumber-drying-on-CD-in-PDF-format-/221591114020?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3397dc1124

Worth every penny!!!


----------



## CL810

bobro, how 'bout some pics of that vise action?


----------



## bobro

> bobro, how bout some pics of that vise action?
> 
> - CL810


I'll try to get some tomorrow. It only cost what amounts to 15 US dollars, probably would cost less than 10 in the US, tools and semi-products being very expensive where I'm at.


----------



## Slyy

Just checking in during class, hoping one day (when I'm finally done with school) I too can get around to building my bench! Strong work in here too, really glad to see TerryD get his done (and a few shots of my swap mallet in action









My bench will still be done before Stef's…........

August, you've got a mind like a Swiss pocket watch with 23 complications! You're the experimental test bed of fabulous ideas around here lately!

Just noticed too my Lumberjocks first birthday was none too long ago!


----------



## RPhillips

Decided to add breadboard ends to my bench. This will allow me to install a Moxon as an endvise.


----------



## RPhillips

Forgot pic…


----------



## RPhillips

Anything special that I need to do here? This will be the first time doing this.









edit: I realize the dowels are aligned incorrectly, so let's pretend that they are not… um kay


----------



## CL810

Rob, I don't think there's anything special but anything out of square will throw it off and the gaps can be "big" because of the proportions. I just really took my time and tripled checked all my lines and marks.

Can't remember what you decided on for the end vise but if you're doing a quick release for the end vise you might want the outside board of the cap to look like this one. Then you won't have to add a board later.









How do you allow for movement in the end caps with a split bench?


----------



## richardwootton

Rob, I know there are some things to take into consideration with Breadboard ends, but I'm drawing a blank on specifics at the moment. I'll let the more informed folks answer this one.


----------



## ToddJB

And if you're doing a quick release I think the woodcraft flyer I got last night said their QL's were 50% for black friday.


----------



## richardwootton

Clayton I was wondering the same thing as far as movement is concerned.


----------



## Lucasd2002

Why wouldn't you make a separate breadboard for each portion of the split top? If they're separate, you wouldn't have to worry about exactly matching the tenon from each part of the top. Part of the reason I say this is because I'm thinking about doing a split top with removable tool trays similar to Bob Lang's 21st century workbench.

Having separate breadboards would also (1) simplify the flattening process for your bench (ie, the two parts could be flattened independent of one another - maybe even in a planer if they're small enough) and (2) allow long objects/clamps to simply pass through the end of the bench with out having to lift up toward the ceiling. Of course, if your tool trays are permanently mounted, some of these advantages are negated.


----------



## RPhillips

I was wondering the same for movement, was just going to pin the out side edges tight and let it expand towards the center since the tops are mortised 2" from the outside edge.

CL, That's kinda what I had in mind for the tail vise end. I'll be using a Moxon style on that end. I know it's not traditional, but I think that it would serve me best. Wouldn't have to really worry about racking when using it as an endvise either. I just need to see if I have any wood big enough, but if not I will just install a temp piece and replace it when I get the Moxon hardware.

Lucas, actually, I was considering doing the end opposite of the vise in two pieces. My tool trays will be removable.


----------



## ssnvet

TR…..thanks for the link. I've book marked it for future reference …. hope to set up a Woodmizer under a shed awning next to my barn someday and KD on site would be awesome. But unfortunately, today is not the day (year) for that project.

All you split top guys have me scratching my head… I personally can't see it being an advantage for the way I do WW.


----------



## richardwootton

Matt I'm with you, I'm thinking a one piece top maybe with a tool well on the backside seems more to my liking.


----------



## RPhillips

> ...
> 
> All you split top guys have me scratching my head… I personally can t see it being an advantage for the way I do WW.
> 
> - Mainiac Matt


Here's my thoughts… Split top for me serves a few purposes.

First, it gives me a place to put my tools while I am working on a project. My workshop is a one bench show, so having a place that you have your tools easily within reach and not sitting on the surface to get knocked into the floor seems like a working combo for me.

Second, having an opening that allows me to better use my clamps seems like a good idea. If I have another bench to do glue ups and such, this would really not matter much, but like I said before, one bench workshop. In the future, when I move to a larger workspace, I will have a bench like what Festool offers for doing glue ups and such.

Third, it will be much easier to move. As I mentioned in the last point, larger workspace. We will be moving with in the next 3 years, so having a bench that can be easily moved is another plus. I have the top secure with lag bolts so that I can disassemble the bench much easier. I know this can be done with a full top, but I found it was easier for me to handle the smaller sections.

Four, this design fit the lumber I had perfectly. I did not need to purchase much additional lumber to complete the bench. I picked up two 8"x8" x 9' and a 12"x12"x 4' timbers from work, and this pretty much put my only cost into tools and bench hardware.


----------



## August

Question for the so called wagon vise
If I make one so it will only accommodate a dog 
Is that something I will regret later?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Rob- you do need to allow for movement on breadboards. I showed how to do it at the end of my bench blog:
http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/34751


----------



## wormil

I've often seen it recommended to make haunched tenons on breadboards rather than one long tenon. The reason I believe is it minimizes the effect of wood movement on the ends so they don't stick out or shrink up so much. Since yours will be moving toward the split center, you may not care but thought I would mention it.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/12058/breadboard-joinery-for-the-table-top


----------



## Mosquito

August, I only have a single dog in my wagon vise and I haven't had any issues with it. Just make sure your dog spacing is less than your vise travel and you'll be fine. Only thing multiple dogs in the wagon vise does is makes it so you don't have to move the wagon vise as much


----------



## DanKrager

I'm with Mos on the answer to your question, August. I happen to have three dog holes in my movable "jaw" on my wagon because my dog holes are six inches apart, 3" on the jaw. Lot less moving. By definition dog holes are all a wagon vise does.
DanK


----------



## RPhillips

> Rob- you do need to allow for movement on breadboards. I showed how to do it at the end of my bench blog:
> http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/34751
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Thanks for the link. I had read over your blog sooooo long ago, that was a nice refresher. I really like how you used a flush trim bit to square up the end of the tenon. I did mine with a router too, but unfortunately I had to do my bottom side with bench up-right… that was fun. I panned to pin mine pretty much like you did yours, with the elongated holes.


----------



## August

Thanks Moss 
Thanks Dank 
Sorry I can't explain well
What I mean is some wagon vise the screw is offset .
And you can put a work piecs inside the wagon vise ?
The way I'm planning on making mine is the dog will be directly above the lead screw?
So it will only serve one purpose is to drive a dog?


----------



## benchbuilder

Hey Rob, I have to agree with Ken on the dog holes but disagree with the leg vise advise. I have a leg vise but put it on the far front left end of my bench. I now have a five legged bench. But it works out very well.. you really need to give the leg vise build a lot of forthought! There are a million ways to build the leg vise. You pick what works best for you or what the budget allows. You can use the steel rod and bearing like the Englishman seles or a chain devise to keep things straight. I came up with the use of a false stretcher for the bottom guide to ride under with guides to guiide the guide. Sounds like a lot of unneeded junk to mess with so I never built it. What i built is the standard leg vise with holes and a pln in the bottom guide bar, Its no big deal to move the pin and most of the time i dont have to move it. On the split top idea, i never seen any advantages to it or a real need for two narrow bench tops set apart, but it looks cool. I have built several workbenches now and each one is an adventure and built for the way its needed, and used, cool doesnt matter.As i said a million ideas out there, just dont get in a hurry and enjoy the trip..good luck


----------



## Mosquito

I understand what you're saying now August. I have an offset screw on mine, so I can push the dog down into the sled and out of the way when working on other things, and then can push the dog back up from under the bench when I need it










Having the ability to clamp something between the sled of the wagon vise and the end of the cut out for it isn't a bad idea, that's how a lot of tail vises get used sometimes too


----------



## August

^cool Moss
That's what I was trying to say.
Ok so I'm on the right track then thanks men


----------



## ssnvet

Hey guys,

I've been thinking a lot about vises, and how little I use the tail vise on my current bench (7" metal plate vise with a sliding dog mounted on the end of the bench).

The new bench I'm conspiring to build will add to and not replace my current bench, and there are a couple things I'd like to be able to do with this one.
1. have a clamp that can hold a board vertically to do dovetail work
2. have a clamp flush with the right side, so I can clamp a board horizontally and make cuts, etc… while sighting the keeper side of my line.

Here's my current bench

I'd like to try a leg vise, and I'd like to try a face vise with a big wooden block face

Here's a model of my latest thoughts…


----------



## Sylvain

August,
for a wagon vise, you normaly use a left threaded screw.
Otherwise 
either you have to turn anti clockwise to tighten, 
or you accept the screw protruding from the bench when untightened.


----------



## August

Thanks sylvian
I did not know that 
Thanks for advice


----------



## CL810

August, I believe you can put garters at both ends of the screw with the nut in the wagon and you won't have the issue sylvan is talking about.


----------



## Mosquito

I used a right hand thread screw and a garter plate on my wagon vise. The counter clockwise rotation to "tighten" on the wagon vise doesn't bother me. I guess my brain just allows me to recognize that the sled is riding on the screw and not attached to it, allowing it to make sense to me that I go counter clockwise on the screw to make the sled move "down" the screw… idk works for me.

I'm sure it's the kind of thing you get used to no matter which direction it is.


----------



## MactheKnife

August, I made my wagon vise with a right hand thread with garters to hold the screw. 
Mine was not offset, if I make another it would be offset as the additional holding would be useful. It took me a while to get used to the thread direction, but it's not an issue. 
Look forward to seeing your solution as the bench was brilliant and unique.


----------



## August

> August, I made my wagon vise with a right hand thread with garters to hold the screw.
> Mine was not offset, if I make another it would be offset as the additional holding would be useful. It took me a while to get used to the thread direction, but it s not an issue.
> Look forward to seeing your solution as the bench was brilliant and unique.
> 
> - MactheKnife


Thanks man
I'm actually planning on building 3 since the frame of my workbench is 5'x5'
I want to have a split top 
But money only allowed one 24" wide for now LOL
Thanks drawings is almost done
Update tomorrow or tonight thanks for kind words


----------



## CL810

David Barron modified his Benchcrafted moxon vise.


----------



## RPhillips

^ I was actually thinking about adding springs like that to mine (when I build it). I have some R/C car springs that might just work perfectly.


----------



## August

well i finish the drawings of my wagon vise a little overkill but it be AUGUST MCCORMICK LEHMAN III if its not


----------



## Mosquito

Ok, I'm not quite sure what the plate with the dovetail on it is?


----------



## August

> Ok, I m not quite sure what the plate with the dovetail on it is?
> 
> - Mosquito


in-do-time my friend LOL


----------



## Brit

I think that's what the wood is attached to Mos.


----------



## Mosquito

that's what my thought was too, Brit


----------



## August

Actually the dovetail plate is the metal dog.
And there will be a few of those for different heights.
The angle is there for a better bite.
I made it a dovetail so it looks proportional


----------



## RPhillips

cool idea… August… and you could slip a wooden dovetailed dog over it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> David Barron modified his Benchcrafted moxon vise.
> 
> - CL810


Very interesting. Not sure if I'd like the knobs….but the springs could be useful.


----------



## August

> cool idea… August… and you could slip a wooden dovetailed dog over it.
> 
> - RPhillips


Yes that's something that is possible
But since I'm very new to this woodworking on the bench.
I'm learning a lot lately 
I've been really trying to do as much of the milling by hand.
But I will also not lie I have a 5hp bandsaw and I let that do the ripping.
The purpose of the metal dog is it will grab the wood secure and yes I will take your advice on the wood when the wood is close to its finish stage.
But like I said I'm making this strictly to drive a dog that's it.
Thanks for possitive comments men


----------



## CL810

> David Barron modified his Moxon
> 
> Not sure if I d like the knobs….but the springs could be useful.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


That's what I thought.


----------



## RPhillips

When doing bread board ends, what's the one thing that you should have to secure them? Doooooh… I mean dowel. I'll have to fasten them on later, but at least there are done except for the dowels.

Started working on the tool trays, but starting to feel ill, so the bench will be sitting idle for a few days…I start night shifts this weekend.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> David Barron modified his Moxon
> 
> Not sure if I d like the knobs….but the springs could be useful.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead
> 
> That s what I thought.
> 
> - CL810


If I made knobs….I could sure make them better looking…lawl. I'd want to thread the hole and use a stopped bolt….like on my leg vise.

However, I'm just talkin out my butt…I'm not doing it anyway.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Adding springs is brilliant. I like the knobs addition, too. Like Red, though, I'm talking out of turn. Benchcrafted hardware is not in my future… just can't justify the expense.


----------



## kiefer

Hi guys
Here is the leg vise design that I came up with .









A super simple design with self activating quick release mechanism .
I made a video of this and it will explain it better than I could with text .





Klaus


----------



## woodcox

Nice Klaus! I like how you needed and incorporated the weight hand wheel.


----------



## August

> Adding springs is brilliant. I like the knobs addition, too. Like Red, though, I m talking out of turn. Benchcrafted hardware is not in my future… just can t justify the expense.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


What about the company AML ???
They might have better pricing?


----------



## bobro

> Hi guys
> Here is the leg vise design that I came up with .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A super simple design with self activating quick release mechanism .
> I made a video of this and it will explain it better than I could with text .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Klaus
> 
> - kiefer


First leg vise I've ever seen that I'd really like to have, great job. It's hard to tell from the photo, but is that a very short bench you've got it on?


----------



## woodcox

^table saw/bench


----------



## kiefer

Bobro
The vise is retrofitted to my work centre opposit the vise in the picture on the router table section .
I like a vise here for the time when the bench is in use with other things 
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/89736
On my bench I have three other vise and the bench is about 65" long .
Klaus


----------



## bobro

Cool, looks like a lot of possibilities fit close together, nice.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

AML is an outstanding outfit, that is for sure! I'm just a late (if ever) convert to the Moxon Vise Movement, meaning I don't have one and don't plan one at this point. My workbench, w/ leg vise, is my joinery bench. Glad those that have "Moxons" love 'em, no skin of my nose. There's just not a niche for it to fill in my hobby shop for now.


----------



## August

^Lol
Well when ever your ready I can put in a good word.

Gluing up my new bench top


----------



## ssnvet

Could someone please tell me what AML is?


----------



## ToddJB

August McCormick Lehman III


----------



## RPhillips

Acute myeloid leukemia - first hit on Google

edit. Boy, was I off.


----------



## August

Your a funny man rob


----------



## RPhillips

> Your a funny man rob
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


J/K 

I will be installing AML moxon hardware in the near future.


----------



## August

The first 12" is done 
This handplaning is fun when the wood is the plane width ???


----------



## RPhillips

Looking like your top is coming together nicely.


----------



## August

^thanks man
It's growing now 
Just added 6"


----------



## john2005

> Hi guys
> Here is the leg vise design that I came up with .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A super simple design with self activating quick release mechanism .
> I made a video of this and it will explain it better than I could with text .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Klaus
> 
> - kiefer


Kiefer, I love your ingenuity. It's fun to see the things you come up with and this is no exception. Yeah, it may not work for everybody but it looks like you have a pretty solid idea here. I did kinda miss why the rod is screwed down. I guess a better way to ask my question is what's turning? Thanks. You definitly have a gift.


----------



## RPhillips

I believe the hand wheel is spinning on the threaded shaft which ismoving the chop The threaded rod is attached acting as a locking mechanism on the opposite end as if is fitted against the half nut.


----------



## kiefer

John2005
The chop is tightend by the handwheel which is threded on the rod with the hub .
The rod engages into the hlaf nut which is located in the block/stretcher above it and is the locking mechanism .
You should watch the video as I think the explanation is better on the video.





Klaus


----------



## kiefer

RPhillips
Rob
You got it and the vise is so simple in the way it works, its just different in design .

Klaus


----------



## DanKrager

Kiefer,
I noticed in the video a little hiccup. When you put quite a bit of pressure on it, the threads skipped. Theoretically that can't happen, or is very unlikely to happen. I really like this design and am thinking about adapting a similar approach to another vise. Would acme threads be less likely to skip under heavy pressure or shock? I (we) know a machinist that can make the acme split nut…
In grade school our vises were quick action cams, no threads. There was a rack, and a pawl was secured to an aggressive cam that could put as much pressure on a piece in about 1/3 turn as a threaded vise. It would be cool to find such mechanisms for sale. BTW, I still have the vise…

DanK


----------



## DanKrager

I've been following Hovarter because I am intrigued with his vise hardware. It's as slick as it is expensive, but as it is catching on, prices are becoming more reasonable. Sort of. 
DanK


----------



## john2005

Thanks boys. I get it now. Using a first gen iPad and it took 35min to watch the 11 min vid so I was reluctantent to back up to that spot. Your right though. Super simple and looks very easy. I'm diggin your style Klaus!


----------



## kiefer

Dan
What you saw is that it skipped under light engagement and I had not put downward pressure on the wheel
and it does take a little getting used to .
As pressure is applyied the rod and nut get pushed into each other because of the angled bar pushing the upper bar with the rod attached slightly upward .


----------



## RPhillips

How about a Moxon or a Wagon Vise with a Hovarter style mechanism…

edit: I see that has already been well covered… hehehe


----------



## Iguana

Back on the wagon (vise). Started the vise end cap yesterday, made good progress:









No, I'm not sinister. It is upside down.

Blog post here

I've got about 20 hours this week to work on it, should make some good progress. Staying on track to beat Stef.


----------



## RPhillips

For a minute there, I almost had you mistaken for a lefty.


----------



## Iguana

Finished fitting the end cap (blog post) and got to work on the vise. I should have re-read the vise install instructions yet again before I cut the mortise in the end cap…









There is a bolt that need to go through where that gap is. Not a huge deal, can glue in a patch. All y'all are the only ones who will ever see it


----------



## BubbaIBA

I finally tired of fooling with the leg vise on the old bench and dropped kicked it through the bench vise goal posts into its rightful spot…Hidden in the "tool room" never to be seen. At least until I build another bench and can use the new in the box also stored in the tool room crisscross with it.

It was replaced with an old English metal QR vise, I believe a Paramo but it could be a Record, I had stored in the same tool room. It is a smaller #150 which is not as robust as the #52 but as it is on the secondary bench that shouldn't be a problem. Anyway, it is installed with leather lined wood jaws. I stuck a longish board in outboard of the center and tightened down. Very little racking even without a spacer and there wasn't any way with a foot of leverage the board would move.

Same song different verse: The leg vise looks "right" on a French style bench and when it is in adjustment works pretty good, not better than an older English metal QR but works OK. The metal vise is no fuss, always works the same, if it racks a little it is easy to take care of with a spacer and is quicker to go from one size object to the next. Pretty and traditional vs. functional, for me not much of a contest. Of course as with all things woodworking and most things life…..YMMV.










BTW, I worked several years on that bench with the leg vise installed. From the get go it worked OK but would occasionally go out of adjustment and become "sticky". A couple of minutes rolling around on the floor in the shavings and saw dust and it would be back to normal and work fine but never better than any other good vise. With no real advantage in holding or speed the leg vise just isn't worth the every month or so up close and personal inspections of my floor maintenance. Of course the dogs might disagree, they figured my being on the floor was play time and an invitation to lick my face.


----------



## dbray45

And that is a bad thing???


----------



## CL810

> A couple of minutes rolling around on the floor in the shavings and saw dust and it would be back to normal…..
> 
> - BubbaIBA


I sense you are not in a hurry to install the Criss cross with a new leg vise. ;-). But in the year I've had mine in service I have not once had to fiddle with it. YMMV….


----------



## Airframer

I'm just going to toss this out there… It seems you had your leg vise installed wrong somehow. I have NEVER and I mean NEVER had to mess with mine to get it to work. It just works, it works REALLY well every time. No racking, incredible hold and fast adjustment. The complete opposite of how you describe their use. You are, in fact, the only person I have heard with these issues quite the opposite actually. Simply stated… the evidence does not support your claim.


----------



## BubbaIBA

> I sense you are not in a hurry to install the Criss cross with a new leg vise. ;-). But in the year I ve had mine in service I have not once had to fiddle with it. YMMV….
> 
> - CL810


That's kinda what I figure and the reason I've not sold either the leg or crisscross. I had planned on doing a retrofit but after looking at the install instructions it would have taken an almost complete re-build of the leg and chop. The next bench may have a crisscross.


----------



## BubbaIBA

> And that is a bad thing???
> 
> - dbray45


Not really, it's the best part of working in the shop .


----------



## BubbaIBA

> I m just going to toss this out there… It seems you had your leg vise installed wrong somehow. I have NEVER and I mean NEVER had to mess with mine to get it to work. It just works, it works REALLY well every time. No racking, incredible hold and fast adjustment. The complete opposite of how you describe their use. You are, in fact, the only person I have heard with these issues quite the opposite actually. Simply stated… the evidence does not support your claim.
> 
> - Airframer


You could be correct….I may not know what I'm doing and did a poor install…...But this is not the only bench with a leg vise I've found to be that way and it could be the person that did that install didn't know what they were doing either. Could be.


----------



## jmartel

The only issues I have with my leg vice are because I went a non-traditional route with the guide mechanism. And those issues should be easily fixed when I can get the time and order up a part or two from McMaster.


----------



## merrill77

I've got about the simplest leg vice design you could imagine - a pipe clamp through the chop and leg. There is also a guide bar at the bottom. I generally use a scrap spacer down there instead of adjusting it, though. Quicker. It doesn't rack at all in typical usage scenarios. When clamping small pieces, if I don't (or can't) center them, then I need a spacer on the other side, just like many other vices. But I have other vices on the bench that are generally better suited in that case.

I can't guess what is wrong with yours, but perhaps with more details and pictures, we can help you diagnose it.


----------



## BubbaIBA

I was rushing out the door this morning so no time for a proper answer….should have waited but should have and did or two different things.

A little back story: I first installed the leg vise on the SYP bench several years ago, it worked mostly as advertised for a couple of years. Spin the wheel and the chop would move to nearly the limit both in and out. Still slower than a QR vise but I could live with it but then a couple of years ago it started binding, you could adjust the bind out which I would do when needed. Also because the wheel is small and I'm getting older it became more difficult to tighten and then when tight enough to hold work difficult to release. I looked around for fixes, ordered a crisscross and tried to find a easy "Johnson Bar" retrofit for the wheel. No joy on the Johnson Bar and the crisscross would have been a major rebuild (BTW, its still new in the box somewhere in the tool room). Now I'm pretty sure what is wrong as far as the binding, I suspect the phenolic block has worn or someway came miss-alined. Whatever, because there is no real upside to a leg vise vs. an English QR metal vise other than looks and fashion. I decided it is not worth the effort to fix.

Bottom line: The QR vise holds work just as well maybe even better depending on set up, the QR vise works faster if you are working on face and edge. To have a functioning QR vise you need to make a couple of wood chops for the jaws and use four Spaz screws to mount it and you're done, and depending on where and how you made your leg vise the QR vise can be much cheaper.

When I built the Beech bench there was no question the Paramo #52 was going on it. I re-mounted the leg vise on the SYP bench where it has been for several months. For the last couple of weeks I've been helping a friend build a DF bench and he has been using the SYP bench….Well yesterday it bound up one too many times, It's not firewood yet but…..

For all you folks that find leg vises the best….great, I'm happy for you. I found them not worth the effort.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You can have my leg vise when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. I agree with Eric, jmart, Chris, Clayton, etc. Had a QR, sold it. Will never have another… no desire to install one as a face vise, but have a similar piece of iron in use as an end vise. Many limitations with that tool, but I don't ask much from it.


----------



## ssnvet

Smithy…. For those of us with more limited exposure, could you please detail what you feel are the limitations of a QR vise?


----------



## donwilwol

> Smithy…. For those of us with more limited exposure, could you please detail what you feel are the limitations of a QR vise?
> 
> - Mainiac Matt


I can't speak for Smitty, and I'm not as adverse as Smitty is to it, but it would go long before the leg vice. Think of the size of it and how you must go about hold large pieces. If all you build is small boxes, its probably fine. but for long stock and larger pieces the leg vise just works better.

Also its limited in holding for joinery. I've got a twin screw vise, but I still find myself using the leg vise for dovetailing and similar functions. Not possible with the front or QR style vise. I'll build a moxon one day, and that'll be a non issue I suppose, but I can still hold a 12" + Length of board for whatever reason I need to.

Try edging a wide board on one.

And the list goes on.


----------



## August

+1 smitty 
+1 donw 
That's why I put two on my bench
Just for problem like this photo


----------



## jmartel

> Whatever, because there is no real upside to a leg vise vs. an English QR metal vise other than looks and fashion. I decided it is not worth the effort to fix.
> 
> Bottom line: The QR vise holds work just as well maybe even better depending on set up, the QR vise works faster if you are working on face and edge. To have a functioning QR vise you need to make a couple of wood chops for the jaws and use four Spaz screws to mount it and you re done, and depending on where and how you made your leg vise the QR vise can be much cheaper.
> 
> - BubbaIBA


And I would disagree with you there.

Speed of operation is the same for when you are closing the QR vise, only real advantage is when you need to pull the vise open quickly, which isn't very often for me.

A Leg vise has more clamping power than a QR does. That's just physics.

A leg vise is cheaper as it only requires you to buy a tail vise screw from Lee Valley for $40ish. The rest is all wood that can be had cheap or free.

With a QR vise, you are severely limited in the depth of a board you can clamp on edge. The guide bars get in the way. With the leg vise, you can slip it down next to the screw and go all the way to the floor if you have a board wide/long enough.


----------



## Thorreain

Getting close to being done.


----------



## Iguana

Ah, the ever-elusive anti-gravity bench! The effect extends to everything within 10'!

Welcome to LumberJocks, Thorreain. Awesome looking bench. 4 vises!


----------



## woodcox

Wow! You got some splainin to do Pretty cool bench you've made there. Welcome to LJ's!


----------



## wormil

That's a dandy Escher style workbench.


----------



## bobro

Nice job, Thorreain! Now all you need is a couple of more vises and you'll be ready to go.

Just kidding- the great thing about building a workbench is that it's a tool for you and can put in as many or few vises, dogholes, drink holders, or whatever as you darn well please.


----------



## Northwest29

Oh my gosh, that is one extra fine looking bench and talk about versatility. Just to pretty to use IMHO. Excellent job!


----------



## Thorreain

Thanks all for the comments. If you like you can check out the build blog…https://***.com/blog_series/56-work-bench-build
Does anyone know how to rotate pics on here?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya the pic uploading isn't the best on this site. Only way I know is to save the image to my cpu, edit it, and re-upload.

Here ya go, Thorreain's sweet bench:


----------



## merrill77

Thorreain - Like you, I saw benefits of each of the vice styles (face, tail, wagon, leg) and I also included all of them on my bench. Love it!

Can you explain the purpose of the 6 bigger holes along the center axis. I see something in one of them - what is it?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Smithy…. For those of us with more limited exposure, could you please detail what you feel are the limitations of a QR vise?
> 
> - Mainiac Matt





> ... the great thing about building a workbench is that it s a tool for you and can put in as many or few vises, dogholes, drink holders, or whatever as you darn well please.
> 
> - bobro


Matt, the reply to your question starts with bobro's quote because it's totally true; I have on my bench what works for me, within the confines of the design and structure of my own workbench. I've read stuff (not exhaustively) and used a number of vises (not dozens, but several) and have decided what I have works for me, in my very closed, hobbyist-based range of shop activities. Disclaimer out of the way, then…

-The vise I have on the end of my bench is similar to a Record quick release, but isn't. What I have, why I picked it and how it got installed is detailed as a project here on LJs that I won't repeat here.

-It's this specific vise that carries the limitations I was referring to, specifically that it doesn't open very far (couldn't because install would have hit the leg), blocks the bottom of several dog holes (because I centered the vise's dog to the line of holes on my bench) and has a handle that sometimes gets in the way when walking around the end of the bench (not often, but always requires care). I know the blocked-holes issue is self-imposed

-Installation of said vise was not as simple as bolting it to the bench, and I'd suggest that anyone adhering to the practice of having co-planer surfaces at the front of a workbench would find install of a Record vise equally involved. Specifically, the rear chop should be set into the edge / end of the bench top so that material being worked is supported all along the bench's front. Think long material being worked on edge, or larger panel doors, or even larger boards being dovetailed. In the following pic, for example, larger pieces were clamped on edge using the flush face of the bench as a clamping surface, with the leg vise on one end and a leg-based hold down on the other end. The sliding deadman is at the end as well, providing additional backing for the panel. To my eye, an elegant solution.










Same timeframe, dovetailing.










-My bench top is not very thick-only 2 3/4"-and the QR vise I had (a 50s era Craftsman) was simply too big to mount to the front or end of the bench without doublers and the cipherin' required to make that type of adaptation strong and stable over the long haul.

-The advantage of the quick release feature is a non-starter for me. I know it doesn't cost extra to get an older vise with that capability, but I have no need to save the seconds it takes to open and close my leg vise or end vise. The other face vise I have is an old-school, wooden-threaded face vise as installed on a cabinetmaker's bench. It didn't release, I wasn't aggravated with the inability.

-Regarding capability of a Record-type vise, jmart said it well: "With a QR vise, you are severely limited in the depth of a board you can clamp on edge. The guide bars get in the way." Typical leg vise installs result in a jaw that's 8" deep, bench top to vise screw. My end vise is about 3", the wood vise I have is about the same as that. It limits what can be clamped for glue-ups, and working edges of wider stock is impossible across the vise in that case, meaning stuff would stay in the right side of the chop only. I've edge jointed 8' 1×10 stuff with my leg vise set up very easily, and would have to ponder on how do do the same with a shallow face vise setup. The #8 jointer would have been under my armpit for sure. Which is to say, vise depth is important for all types of clamping applications not replicated by a Record without larger chops, which in turn would impact ease of install.

Long reply to a short question, Matt, but I hope it helps.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thorreain, your bench is beautiful!!!


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## RPhillips

> Thorreain, your bench is beautiful!!!
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


second that! look forward to hearing more about it.


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## Thorreain

Ok, a bit more about my workbench. The dimensions are 96" x 24" x 37" high. I am 6' 4" tall so that's why the height. The top is 3 3/4" thick rock hard maple. The legs are 5 1/2" square and made of red oak. The stretchers are 1 3/4" x 6" yellow birch. The shelf is Baltic birch plywood laminated to 2" thick. The style is similar to a split top Roubo, but is not truly split. It has 2" x 3" openings every 12" down the middle. This allows the bench to have the qualities of a solid one piece top, and have squarish holes to act as plane stops or clamping holes. The ends and all corners have recessed 4" lag bolts covered with maple dowels. Their is no dovetails as the humidity and temp changes are extreme where I live and for now I want to see how much it moves before going with a breadbin joint. The legs and stretchers are draw bored mortise and tenion, but not all the way thru the front to conceal the dowels. It has 4 vises, the reason is I designed it to overcome the needs I have had over the years. So, if I had ever thought I wish I had a …...Vise for…....that's what I incorporated into the design. The leg Vise is a LV screw with a crisscross and a 5 1/2 x 4 3/4" chop, laminated birch and rock maple. It has a crochet crook mounted just to the left of the leg Vise. The wagon Vise is LV screw, but is only channeled on the top to allow waste to fall away thru the opening. I mounted a LV face Vise on the end recessed in by a foot to create an inside corner in which to support things while pounding ie dowel making jig. The QR Vise is a General 7" and the deadman has the ability to work on both sides not just the leg Vise side. All 4 vises are trimmed out in Purple Heart decorative chop faces.
Thanks for looking, if you have any questions please ask. You can follow the blog of the build here…
https://***.com/blog_series/56-work-bench-build
Thanks for your time.


----------



## Thorreain

Thank you red for correcting the pictures orientation for me.


----------



## terryR

>


 ^ Now…THAT is a bench worth dreaming of!


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## Thorreain

Merrill- the block in the middle hole is a plane stop with a cap that can be moved to any of the holes. It fits in the 2" x 3" hole and is 6" long. It has a 1/2" cap to act as the stop.


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## Thorreain

Oh, I forgot one thing. The deadman is 2 1/2" x 6 1/2" single piece of Pine. I will be making a seat with the same material in the fashion of the one that Keifer built to slide along the deadman grooves.


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## kiefer

Thanks Thorreain
Good thought to add the seat as a accessory to this beautiful bench and should just about finish it .
I love that seat and its a place to rest or to do some work or sketching sitting down .
you should also post this bench as a project it's just such a nice bench .

Klaus 
PS Should have a SKETCHUP model drawing of my new KNEE VISE shortly .


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## Thorreain

Thank you Kiefer, coming from you these words are more than just kind! Your injunity and skill never cease to amaze me. It is almost complete, I still have to use a rail and sled to router/plane the top perfectly flat and level. I have a 5 hp makita router with a 1-1/2" wide bit ready for the job. Then all I will have left is to apply the finish. Thanks to all for welcoming me here to LJ's and for all the kind words about my workbench.


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## richardwootton

Thorreain, gorgeous bench my friend!


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## john2005

That's a mighty fine bench you've made there Thorreain!


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## August

Well been making some progress on the on the new bench top .


----------



## Aodskate

Just starting on a mini bench that will clamp onto my normal table. Not entirely sure the design yet but I've glued up some ash for the table top and have started cutting tenons for the legs. Will post more further down the road. I'm not a hand tool guy by any means but this project is no rush and I want to be able to listen to black sabbath as I work so this project will all be done with hand tools.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Happy Thanksgiving to all ye crazy benchcrafters.


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## richardwootton

> Well been making some progress on the on the new bench top .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Looking great Auggie!


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## CL810

Aodskate, something like this?


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## john2005

Thread revival attempt. (what happened here guys. One minute everybody is goin great guns, next minute two days of crickets)

Anyways, my leg vice had some resistance that I figured to be from the weight of the chop. For one it got worse the further you opened it and two if you unweighted the vise it spun pretty smooth. Now it wasn't horrible, but it wasn't great either. 
First I tried a piece of plastic cutting board material and just screwed it to the face of the leg. Big improvement and basically its what bench crafted does. Problem was I was getting a bad vibration in the last 4-5" of travel. So I canned that and picked up a bearing, the idea run it ala Red. Bearing was cheap, about 6 bucks. Had one of my local auto vendors source it.

The rest I will just tell in pictures. My first attempt I was about an 1/8" too high and the chop didn't want to sit flush, and it wanted to bind at the end. So I turned another plug, glued it in and did it all over, lowering it a little. She's nice now. Real nice.


----------



## August

^ very nice john
Soon as I finish my top and wagon vise next project is the bench against the wall 
And thinking of doing it traditional style. No metal. But not sure yet.
Nice job on leg vise


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Glad that upgrade worked out for you too John. Best thing I did to my leg vise for sure. The screws holding the bearing are a good idea. I glued mine in. It may come out if needed….but not in one piece


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## john2005

Almost glued it, but went down the "what if" trail. Next upgrade might be a wheel but that would just be for fun. The tommy handle works good and if it ain't broke….


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## terryR

Nice, John. That upgrade is in my near future…for now I just get by with a droopy leg which is 1/8" higher than the bench top anyway! LOL.

double post…but I just discovered the fun of wheels last night!










No time for actually cutting DT's! Spinning those wheels have kept me amused for 18 hours!!!


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## BigRedKnothead

> Almost glued it, but went down the "what if" trail. Next upgrade might be a wheel but that would just be for fun. The tommy handle works good and if it ain t broke….
> 
> - john2005


I'm really glad I went with a 10" wheel. Bigger the better….ask Don. I still consider the wheel another upgrade. With he bearing and the heft of the cast iron….that thing spins nice!


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## donwilwol

yep, love my big wheel.


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## lateralus819

No wooden hand wheels eh Terry?


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## August

Well TerryR 
When the time comes for your leg vise hardware not including the handle 
Let me know
I think it safe to say that I have a really good lead screw? ???


----------



## oltexasboy1

I have that Jeff Miller article and was thinking about making one for my self. Yours looks like I might just go for it as soon as I get my list of Christmas stuff made for the family. So far I need to make a sausage press and a poplar trestle table for my niece. Looks good .


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## August

> Nice, John. That upgrade is in my near future…for now I just get by with a droopy leg which is 1/8" higher than the bench top anyway! LOL.
> 
> double post…but I just discovered the fun of wheels last night!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No time for actually cutting DT s! Spinning those wheels have kept me amused for 18 hours!!!
> 
> - terryR


Hey terry I have pics too LOL


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## Mosquito

^ Me too, Me too!


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## August

Hey moss the moxon is fine your starting that low angle again men


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## Airframer

Me too! Me too!


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## terryR

Lat, I bought that BenchCrafted hardware LAST Christmas…it's been in my truck since.  This Moxon is gonna be a prototype since I keep making mistakes! Last night I placed a nice 1/8" round over on the back of the back chop…low blood sugar…but that gap is gonna drive my OCD crazy when a bench on bench is added!

August, my leg vise is fine…could use a bushing like John's, but works great! Adding a tail vise is next for my bench, and a few more dog holes. Still looking at what you guys have done for a tail vise, since I'm broke now. LOL.

Mos, goodness, your photos are so friggin crisp! Please don't tell me you're using an iCamera? Those wooden screws make Mos' Moxon the sexiest IMO.


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## Mosquito

It's "Moxon Monday" I guess LOL

-

No iCam here Terry. It's just a point and shoot Sony (WX300). I use PhotoShop to resize my images, as I found that my batch-PhotoResizer program didn't keep quite the quality that doing it through PhotoShop does. A lot slower that way, but once you memorize the shortcuts it's not so bad lol


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## BigRedKnothead




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## byerbyer

This question may belong on the handplane thread, but I'm going to through it out here because my Roubo bench is the next serious project on my list. My question is for those that have, or plan to build a Roubo bench…
Concerning joinery in the traditional Roubo bench (draw bored mortise & tenon, sliding dovetail, etc) would a LN rabbet black plane or LN router plane be more advantageous? I think I know the answer, and plan to add both to my arsenal in time, but would like the opinion of the seasoned bench builders among us.


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## August

I was wondering if red going to join LOL
Nice red


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## john2005

Seems like I NEED a moxon. I do have some lumber. Probably should start looking for hardware. After Christmas. When the wife says I can spend money again…

Mos, you picked a pretty precarious perch for you plane Pal.

Byer, since I have a router plane and didn't use it, and don't have a rabbet block but wished I did and would have, I would say rabbet.


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## Mosquito

Was actually my wife that set it there… And with the board clamped in it, it's 3.75" from front to back, and it's on a diagonal so it's probably at least 1/2 supported by the vise jaws… I moved it right after I took the picture, though.

Besides, I've done worse for picture ops lol


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## JayT

Moxon Monday? I'm in.

I see Mos' wooden screws and raise the pot by over 150 years of history.










I fully realize my bench on a bench isn't a pretty as some, but I'm not trading the history and patina of the piece for anything.


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## Mosquito

I see no issues with your Bench-on-bench Jay. I have vintage tools that I've cleaned up only enough to be functional again, and not degrade further. Patina is a good thing


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## August

Well Todd
I have the acme already and I can tap a handle?


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## ToddJB

> Well Todd
> I have the acme already and I can tap a handle?
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Who, me?


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## August

^lol
For some reason I get you mixed up with john 
Anyway you too then if you need it


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## CL810

Moxon Monday - I'm in.


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## bobro

That vise looks like it was made in Badassia, CL810, beautiful!

Really need to get a working camera so I can show you guys the humblest and homeliest vise around (works very well though).


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## CL810

Thanks Bobro.


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## Mosquito

I love the natural edge on yours CL. Especially how it's the bevel at the top of the chop


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## JayT

> I love the natural edge on yours CL. Especially how it s the bevel at the top of the chop
> 
> - Mosquito


+1 to that. One of my two or three favorite Moxon's that have been done.


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## terryR

That's a gorgeous vise, Clayton! 
Looks like leather on your holdfasts? Hmm…

Used my fancy BC powered Moxon today…my dovetails still suck!
LOL.


----------



## CL810

Thanks guys.


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## lateralus819




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## Aodskate

> Aodskate, something like this?
> 
> - CL810


Yeah similar to that I just need a decent vice system as you can see my normal bench isn't 100% made for woodworking


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## BigRedKnothead

^Ya, that's still the best looking moxon I've seen.

And that's why Kevin sucks.


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## CL810

Kevin, I'd forgotten how awesome that bench is.


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## lateralus819

Thanks Gents.

I've had it a few months and i can't believe how i did without it! So useful for everything really. I've already got chisel marks in it! (GASP!)

The hand wheels work better than i expected. I can exert a tremendous amount on them and no issues yet. Consider the nuts in the wheels were rounded and then epoxied. It's helped great. I did realize a few things i would change, but functionally it works great.


----------



## yuridichesky

Well, the work bench thread is turning into beauty contest thing with all that Moxon vise stuff 

Don't want to break it, but I've got a question to the board. Does anyone use cork instead of leather on vise clamping faces? I just bought 1/8" thick cork pads that fit perfectly on my vise, and I'd like to know what experts think before tearing my old suede pads off the vise.


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## benchbuilder

Hey kevin, that is one nice bench!!! Great job, sure arent any mistakes there…


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## benchbuilder

Hey kevin, that is one nice bench!!! Great job, sure arent any mistakes there…


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## benchbuilder

Nice bench kevin, sure aren't any mistakes or failure there..


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## August

Well it's tuesday 
So I'll start the a hanplane pic of the day.
On the bench LOL


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## terryR

Yeah, Lat's dedicated Moxon Bench would appear on the 2015 Calendar IF we had one in progress. 

Yuri, is your suede failing? I don't see why cork wouldn't work great…never seen it used before, though.

Nice shot, August. Love the sunshine on the bench plane.

No artistic lighting in this shot…


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## JayT

> Yeah, Lat s dedicated Moxon Bench would appear on the *2015 Calendar IF we had one in progress.*


We do-Mos and I are working on it. So turn this  into this


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## terryR

^oh sweet! 
Please share the link when done.
Thanks, computer guys!


----------



## Miataguy

> Wood- SYP construction 2X10 Its heavy, cheap, hard enough to stand up well, softer than the woods I use, except poplar. Face vise chop and sliding dead man are hard maple. That and 1 gal glue was and I was off. Top is 4" thick and legs are just shy 4.5" thick. All mortise and tenons are pegged with white oak dowels. Shelf is ¾" thick and holds my bench appliances. Its heavy, real heavy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vises- Veritas quick release face and tail vise.
> Face vise is nice, beats a leg vise in my book any day. I know, it racks. So what, make a simple wedge or card spacer, when it's an issue (honestly, with this vice, it rarely is). Beats bending over to change the pin in a leg vise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tail vise is the bees knees. That long chop mean very little unsupported area like with other types of tail vises. Also means I don't need holes every 3" in a row. Plus it moves the dog holes right up front, which is great for fenced planes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Newage Neanderthal


SYP makes some great benches. The one I am going to build will be Hard maple though.


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## merrill77

> Looks like leather on your holdfasts? Hmm…


Absolutely yes. Night and day. Do it.


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## yuridichesky

> Yuri, is your suede failing? I don t see why cork wouldn t work great…never seen it used before, though.
> 
> - terryR


Terry, my suede is too thin and it doesn't stay on vise surface firmly but slides away all the time. Some thicker leather would do for sure, but I have no such leather at hand now, so I'm thinking about cork.


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## RPhillips

I would think that cork would work, but the durability would be lacking. I go for it if you're not happy with the current state.


----------



## yuridichesky

Yes, Rob, I'll give it a try. Hope I'll find thick enough leather sooner than cork is trashed.


----------



## terryR

Yuri, how large of a piece of leather would it take?

I have scrap suede in ugly yellow colors, deerhide, and my wife tanned a pig hide this weekend, but doesn't know what to do with it. Got fresh eggs to trade, too.


----------



## jmartel

> Yeah, Lat s dedicated Moxon Bench would appear on the *2015 Calendar IF we had one in progress.*
> 
> We do-Mos and I are working on it. So turn this  into this
> 
> - JayT


Bondo pose calendar? Not sure I want that hanging up in my cube at work…


----------



## ToddJB

> Bondo pose calendar? Not sure I want that hanging up in my cube at work…
> 
> - jmartel


Now that's a calendar I could get behind!


----------



## Mosquito

> Bondo pose calendar? Not sure I want that hanging up in my cube at work…
> 
> - jmartel
> 
> Now that s a calendar I could get behind!
> 
> - ToddJB


I may or may not have all the Bondo poses bookmarked… ;-)


----------



## August

oh come on MOSS you know you like it LOL


----------



## yuridichesky

> Yuri, how large of a piece of leather would it take?
> 
> I have scrap suede in ugly yellow colors, deerhide, and my wife tanned a pig hide this weekend, but doesn t know what to do with it. Got fresh eggs to trade, too.
> 
> - terryR


Terry, thank you man, it's two pieces 3-1/2" by 8" each, but you know sending them up here to Russia would turn them into gold


----------



## August

Well wagon vise is taking shape now.
Now I can install the end cap of the bench.


----------



## richardwootton

Yuri, did you blog your bench build?


----------



## Mosquito

Richard: http://lumberjocks.com/yuridichesky/blog/series/6000


----------



## richardwootton

Thanks Mos!


----------



## yuridichesky

Richard, yes I did. And Chris, thank you for bringing the link up 

Actually there's still one part missing in the blog: tool tray, and now I feel bad for not finishing it. Have to fix it ASAP.


----------



## Airframer

Someone say Handplane Tuesday? This is the newest one on my bench today.. all ready for paint


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Plane Tues….


----------



## richardwootton

What are you building Red?


----------



## Mosquito

This is probably my favorite workbench shavings shot


----------



## RPhillips

Almost done!


----------



## richardwootton

> This is probably my favorite workbench shavings shot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito


Mos, I love the gossamer shavings!


----------



## richardwootton

> Almost done!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RPhillips


Damn fine work Rob!


----------



## August

Damn moss those shaving looks like they were save in a air tight container  
Nice shot bud

Anyway I can't believe that some one actually said this exact words to me before august your not hand planning lyptus????
Anyway 
I wonder what you call this?


----------



## August

Hey red I was gonna use that plane for my Tuesday pic,
You beat me to it.


----------



## ToddJB

Rob, awesome! That reclaimed lumber was a bear, but you're killing it, Brother.


----------



## JayT

Bench is looking great, Rob. You gonna be able to finish up this year?


----------



## CL810

Looking *real* good Rob


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## BigRedKnothead

Jeepers Rob….that's looking great!

Richard, that's a pic from a couple months ago when I was building my lathe stand. Right now I'm building a reclaimed dining table. The timbers look like they could belong to a bench. It's even gonna have some condor dovetails. 









And I have the cutest lumber marker this side of the Mississippi.


----------



## terryR

^Red, you didn't make that sweet lil thing cut that monster with that lil handsaw, did ya?



> Terry, thank you man, it s two pieces 3-1/2" by 8" each, but you know sending them up here to Russia would turn them into gold
> 
> - yuridichesky


Oh crap, Yuri…You live in Russia? I don't think our postman goes that far. 
PM coming…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Plane Tuesday on the Smack down thread? What's next, benches on the Epic Thread?

That is all.


----------



## jmartel

Well, since it's apparently plane Tuesday…


----------



## richardwootton

^ That maple is stunning!


----------



## Iguana

Bringing it back to benches 

Just about finished with the wagon vise install. Teaser pic:









Blog post


----------



## yuridichesky

> Oh crap, Yuri…You live in Russia? I don t think our postman goes that far.
> PM coming…
> 
> - terryR


----------



## August

Wednesday plane


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ blah, blah.

Terry- nah that little panel saw was just to finish the cuts on those big timber. Even my miter saw couldn't finish the cut. I wasn't feeling galoot enough to saw those to length, but I intend to saw the lap joints by hand.


----------



## August

^ oh hey good morning BRK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, gotta go flaunting your sexy LN 51 now that I ordered the ugly veritas. lawl.


----------



## ToddJB

I can pick this one up for you Red

http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/4753207132.html


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## August

Todd that looks like red bench top??


----------



## RPhillips

> Ya, gotta go flaunting your sexy LN 51 now that I ordered the ugly veritas. lawl.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I actually like the LV plane, I plan to pick one up when the pocketbook will allow--> see five years


----------



## RPhillips

> Bench is looking great, Rob. You gonna be able to finish up this year?
> 
> - JayT


I'm not sure. I'm still stuck on which tail vise I'm going to install. So I'm holding off on drilling my dog holes until that is installed (as much as I want to just start drilling away so I can use my holdfasts  )

Thanks for the comments guys, it's been quite the journey to get this far. I nearly gave up as those big timber were kicking my butt. Wet, Large wood with unruly grain, a challenge it has been to say the least. I have learned quite a bit through it all, much thanks to the community here for that.

The deadman will be installed this weekend…


----------



## merrill77

> I actually like the LV plane, I plan to pick one up when the pocketbook will allow--> see five years


I'm with him. Low-angle for end grain. Adjustable mouth. Set-screws to position the blade. Owning a few Veritas planes, I have come to appreciate those features. A lot. I can share the PM-V11 blade from my other bevel-up planes. $150 less and better looking, too.  May have to put that on my xmas list. Nahhh…I need some accessories for the spinny tool.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Mostly goofin about the Veritas shooter guys. I don't think it looks as cool as the no 51, but I admit LV has some great revisions on theirs.


----------



## August

??


----------



## Iguana

(My apologies in advance for breaking up the plane love-fest by asking a bench question 

Deadman question - I'm going to start on the leg to top joinery tomorrow, and while I'm at it, I'm thinking I need to do something for the deadman.

My plan calls for me to route a slot on the underside of the top, about 1" deep and 3/4-7/8" wide, to accept a tongue on the top of the deadman. Anybody got any opinions on this? I think some of you have used angle iron, either attached to the underside of the top, or on the top of the deadman. Any advantages to that?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I did what you're planning, it is an effective approach. Very infrequently, the head of an F-style clamp hits the slot, but a reposition fixes it.


----------



## Iguana

Finished up with the end cap joinery and got the front board glued on today.









Blog entry

Should be able to start on leg-to-top joinery tomorrow! Assuming I can lift that thing back up on the desk/bench.


----------



## john2005

> (My apologies in advance for breaking up the plane love-fest by asking a bench question
> 
> Deadman question - I m going to start on the leg to top joinery tomorrow, and while I m at it, I m thinking I need to do something for the deadman.
> 
> My plan calls for me to route a slot on the underside of the top, about 1" deep and 3/4-7/8" wide, to accept a tongue on the top of the deadman. Anybody got any opinions on this? I think some of you have used angle iron, either attached to the underside of the top, or on the top of the deadman. Any advantages to that?
> 
> - Mark Kornell


My only advice is to route it before you put your legs on. I heard about another guy who got carried away and put the legs on first. It's a bit of a PIA to do after the fact…so I hear anyway.

Edit. The other thing I did and like, is I made the slot twice as deep as the tongue on my deadman. That way it can be lifted out anywhere. I know some like to only do that at one end, but I have found no problems with the way I did it.


----------



## BubbaIBA

You may have seen this video on CS's blog, if not it is worth a watch. If you are planning a build it could change your thoughts on what is necessary for a working bench, if you have built it can give either reinforcement and/or ideas on use of your bench. Benches can be very simple yet effective, take a look.


----------



## terryR

Yeah, Mark, I meant to ask last week when your bench top was up-side down…how do you lift it? Goodness, you must be a big fellow! What a gorgeous build!!!

One more plane photo? It's on a bench…sorta…










...cleaning up the wooden plugs on my ply BOB. Note the accidental roundover on the BACK of the back chop…already driving my OCD crazy! Arrrggghhhhhh!

And HERE is the shooter to end all discussion…










I'm sure a few of you recognize it from Leach's List yesterday…probably still for sale at $1485! LOL!


----------



## john2005

^Thats what I was talking about!


----------



## terryR

^yeah, John, it's either the vintage shooter, or a set of new tires for a big truck? 
Same price.
Which lasts longer?
Hmmmm…


----------



## Mosquito

> You may have seen this video on CS s blog, if not it is worth a watch. If you are planning a build it could change your thoughts on what is necessary for a working bench, if you have built it can give either reinforcement and/or ideas on use of your bench. Benches can be very simple yet effective, take a look.
> 
> - BubbaIBA


I haven't built one of those, but I used one for a couple hours at a Lie-Nielsen show last year. He (Mike) was at the Lie-Nielsen show for his woodworking school. They had a bench and were doing some demo stuff. Somehow I ended up getting roped into cutting moulding, attaching it to their demo set of drawers, hammer veneering, etc. I didn't use it extensively, but will say that the doe's foot is fantastic. It was a pretty sturdy bench for sure…


----------



## yuridichesky

Terry, all 6 DMT stones? From XX-Coarse to XX-Fine? Cool!


----------



## JayT

Hmm, hadn't heard it called a doe's foot before. I started using a holdfast and batten instead of an end vise after watching Richard Maguire's video on his blog post last year. So much easier and quicker to work that way that I ended up taking the vise off the end of my bench and haven't missed it at all.


----------



## terryR

Yeah, all the DMT's. An investment for a lifetime after Paul Sellers said His would never wear out. I even polish flint on them…

10 thumbs up is my review!


----------



## bobro

> Hmm, hadn t heard it called a doe s foot before. I started using a holdfast and batten instead of an end vise after watching Richard Maguire s video on his blog post last year. So much easier and quicker to work that way that I ended up taking the vise off the end of my bench and haven t missed it at all.
> 
> - JayT


"Batten" cracks me up. When I was a teenager back in the 80's I did a lot of my woodwork out on the massive patio table at my parents' place, which was a good workbench (my dad still uses it a lot). There were no vises or dog holes like on my grandfather's bench in the shop, so I just copied my dad and used clamps and… "battens", of course, LOL. It was just a few weeks ago that I came across an article on the internet by some Chris Schwarz guy talking about this fabulous rediscovered "batten" thing, I practically fell down laughing.

Now I'm waiting for some fancy French names for other basic stuff people have been doing for ages. For example there's a kind of flat tabletop vise/jig that my dad makes (and his dad before him and so on) that is kind of like an old typesetter's case in principle, but with a chop on a screw coming in from one or two of the sides, for working on small/thin/fragile stuff. I wonder how long it will be before that gets the stamp of Official Approval and a Fraunch moniker?

That reminds, I was just at the Borg and #$%& forgot to get some narrow threaded rod to make one, because I'll need it soon.


----------



## merrill77

> Now I m waiting for some fancy French names for other basic stuff people have been doing for ages.


Sorry, but you can't blame the French for this one: "batten" has its roots in old English…derived from Latin. It IS much fancier than simply saying "board"...but avoids confusion with other "boards" that might be referenced in the same sentence.

For example:
"Fasten a board on the workbench and then place the board up against the board to hold it in place while planing" 
Huh? That is very confusing compared to
"Fasten a batten on the workbench and then place the board up against the batten to hold it in place while planing"

Just sayin'.


----------



## Mosquito

^ I don't disagree with that. It could very well be more of a teaching/written thing to make it distinguishable.


----------



## bobro

> Now I m waiting for some fancy French names for other basic stuff people have been doing for ages.
> 
> Sorry, but you can t blame the French for this one: "batten" has its roots in old English…derived from Latin. It IS much fancier than simply saying "board"...but avoids confusion with other "boards" that might be referenced in the same sentence.
> 
> For example:
> "Fasten a board on the workbench and then place the board up against the board to hold it in place while planing"
> Huh? That is very confusing compared to
> "Fasten a batten on the workbench and then place the board up against the batten to hold it in place while planing"
> 
> Just sayin .
> 
> - merrill77


That's just joking about the names- the irony is that it's stuff all kinds of people have been doing for ages, presented as if it's some kind of big discovery.

It's okay though, there's all kinds of cool stuff in internet articles.


----------



## JayT

> That s just joking about the names- the irony is that it s stuff all kinds of people have been doing for ages, presented as if it s some kind of big discovery.
> 
> It s okay though, there s all kinds of cool stuff in internet articles.
> 
> - bobro


Well, it was a discovery for me. Probably not so much for Maguire, working as he does in a very traditional English style. He's likely been using it for a long time. It just took someone posting the information so that people like me, who were "trained" in a machine-centric shop, had a source to learn about traditional techniques. I'd used boards clamped to the bench as planing stops, but the notched batten was a revelation.

Every single person "discovers" everything they know for the first time at some point. Doesn't mean it should be mocked simply because another person first experienced it years ago.

Sometimes the simple things are the hardest.


----------



## bobro

> That s just joking about the names- the irony is that it s stuff all kinds of people have been doing for ages, presented as if it s some kind of big discovery.
> 
> It s okay though, there s all kinds of cool stuff in internet articles.
> 
> - bobro
> 
> Well, it was a discovery for me. Probably not so much for Maguire, working as he does in a very traditional English style. He s likely been using it for a long time. It just took someone posting the information so that people like me, who were "trained" in a machine-centric shop had a source to learn about traditional techniques. I d used boards clamped to the bench as planing stops, but the notched batten was a revelation.
> 
> Sometimes the simple things are the hardest.
> 
> - JayT


Sure, there are all kinds of neat simple things to rediscover. I'm pretty excited about this "polissoir" thing for example, because I've rubbed on warm beeswax with a rag and that sure is a chore.


----------



## bobro

> That s just joking about the names- the irony is that it s stuff all kinds of people have been doing for ages, presented as if it s some kind of big discovery.
> 
> It s okay though, there s all kinds of cool stuff in internet articles.
> 
> - bobro
> 
> Well, it was a discovery for me. Probably not so much for Maguire, working as he does in a very traditional English style. He s likely been using it for a long time. It just took someone posting the information so that people like me, who were "trained" in a machine-centric shop, had a source to learn about traditional techniques. I d used boards clamped to the bench as planing stops, but the notched batten was a revelation.
> 
> Every single person "discovers" everything they know for the first time at some point. Doesn t mean it should be mocked simply because another person first experienced it years ago.
> 
> Sometimes the simple things are the hardest.
> 
> - JayT


Having a laugh isn't "mocking". There's probably some guy in Laos or something who's laughing at the "rediscovery" of the polissoir, because his family has been using something just like it for the last thousand years.


----------



## bandit571

Perhaps one should watch St. Roy doing a Vise-less Bench?

He was making a double cam thingy that interlocks. Two screws to hold the cams so they pivot. Slide a board into the "fat end" and it will stop at the "fingers". Cams rotate to lock the board in place. Cams are 2" thick Oak/Ash. One screw in the fat part of each cam. Leave them a might loose to allow the cams to rotate. Fingers then "open up" but the fat end rotates around to grip a board, even a curved board like the back of a chair.

Cams are screwed down to their own 2×6 plank. Plane stop on the bench to hold the bottom plank still. Holdfast at the far end, if needed.

Might just be worth a watch….


----------



## mochoa

Speaking of vise-less benches, you guys catch this one? Great video from the Naked Woodworker.


----------



## Mosquito

Mauricio, that's the one that BubbaIBA was referring to, and the bench I was talking about


----------



## mochoa

Sorry I missed that in my skimming.  Pretty cool though, its great when you see a video that has such a different perspective.


----------



## mochoa

And you guys are making me want a moxon!


----------



## merrill77

That link is worth a watch. I've been searching for better workholding methods for a while now. Methods like those in Mr Siemsen's video work great - I designed my bench around a lot of those ideas.

His bench needs a tool chest under it. Or something to give it more mass. It was trying to walk away from him at a couple points in the video (e.g. ~13:46)


----------



## Mosquito

Chris, I have the same problem with my bench too…


----------



## mochoa

Yeah, that bench is good for a traveling bench or a secondary bench for the back porch or something.

The only think I dont like about his bench though is all the friction fit dowel. First I don't like how all the holes look and second, dowels that are either to tight or to loose are a pain in the aas.

Mos I'm surprised yours walks with the splayed legs. It is on the small size though. I'm personally not a fan of the tool chest under the bench but I don't hate the idea.


----------



## RPhillips

Thanks for the link to the video guys. That's what I'm planing to do until ( or if) I get a tail vise set up… just need to figure out where to put the holes so I don't screw myself in the event I add an end vise later (which I will probably do, but more likely a moxon or a QR front vise).


----------



## merrill77

> I m personally not a fan of the tool chest under the bench but I don t hate the idea.


I went back and forth a bit. I wanted to have a handy place to set tools and project parts…and nothing to interfere with clamping to the top. But also wanted the storage and the added mass. In the end, I compromised. The top of the tool cabinet is ~12" below the bottom of the top. So I can still use 6" F-style clamps without any interference at all, and 12" F-style clamps if the workpiece is thick. It gives me space to put small project parts, but not so much stuff that it becomes a junk bin.

I'm really thankful for the storage - as it allowed me to sell a rolling tool cabinet and free up 6 sq ft in my small shop (enough room for a small lathe!). The cabinet with tools added 197 lbs to my small (6×2) bench - for a total of 433 lbs - and there are a bunch of empty drawers, still.  When I wanted to move the bench for pictures, I had to remove some of the drawers before it would budge on a relatively slick OSB floor. It is designed into the bench in such a way that it contributes significantly to the stiffness, too.

In the end, I'm glad I did it. But I can understand those who don't like it. I do have to stoop down to get to a lot of tools that used to be at arm height


----------



## john2005

I think it's safe to say we all have vises…


----------



## August

I just watch that video 
Pretty nice
Although that hold fast will gets after awhile
My opinion


----------



## bobro

I like that video!

As far as the bench walking, I think it's just a matter of the basic mechanics of the thing. Planing can exert a serious amount of force, and a small bench that doesn't rack has no choice but move as a whole. You might even take it as a good sign. If you've ever worked on a rickety bench, the energy of the planing goes into shaking the bench, whereas with a stiff bench, once you've gone over the weight limit, so to speak, the whole bench moves.

I think feet like a trestle table, with a long member on the floor at each end, helps prevent walking, so that's how I built my bench, which is small and made of pine.

Mauricio, I also don't like the look of rows and rows of holes, but it obviously works great for some people, like the guy in the video.


----------



## Mosquito

> The only think I dont like about his bench though is all the friction fit dowel. First I don t like how all the holes look and second, dowels that are either to tight or to loose are a pain in the aas.
> 
> Mos I m surprised yours walks with the splayed legs. It is on the small size though. I m personally not a fan of the tool chest under the bench but I don t hate the idea.
> 
> - Mauricio


I agree on the dowel holes.

Yes, I think it's because of the bench size. It's only 12" wide (the bench top) and only 4' long. I would love to build a bigger bench once I have the space…


----------



## merrill77

> Although that hold fast will gets after awhile
> My opinion


What do you mean?


----------



## August

hey moss
i was actually thinking of a bench around that size?


----------



## RPhillips

*The Original Leg Vise / Holdfast!*


----------



## Mosquito

Rob, that reminds me of when I only had my workmate… I'd hook my front leg over part of the workmate while planing lol

August, I have no issues with my bench size about 90% of the time. It's when I'm doing heavy cross grain work that it tends to have issues is all.


----------



## August

no what im saying is a bench that size you describe is a bench i would like to add in my shop.


----------



## Mosquito

Oh, gotcha. If I were to make another one that size, I'd probably end up making the top a little wider. 4' long is fine, but the 12" wide is sometimes annoying


----------



## bobro

> *The Original Leg Vise / Holdfast!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RPhillips


Rock and roll.

My second bench is just a fair-sized 8/4 board across two low wooden chairs, for the specific reason that I can hold stuff down with my left foot, as well as sit straddling it. My left leg is now qualified to kick Megatron so hard in the tranny that he'd double over, gasping "First they took away Megan Fox, and now…this…"

That looks like a waterstone atop the barrel in the picture, doesn't it.


----------



## mochoa

I hear you Merrill, That sounds like a good compromise. I don't think I get a ton of use out of my lower shelf, it holds windings sticks, mallets, some old wooden planes and couple of brooms, yours storage is probably a lot more productive.

Mos, yeah, what can you expect I guess. But hey you can always put your foot on it to hold it still? LOL. Jk. You do a lot of great work on that little bench.

Man Japanese woodworkers need to be flexible!


----------



## Mosquito

lol I do Mauricio. I often either put my foot on the stretcher to help with bench movement. Coming off of the workmate, though… WORLD of difference, that's for sure.


----------



## Iguana

> Yeah, Mark, I meant to ask last week when your bench top was up-side down…how do you lift it? Goodness, you must be a big fellow! What a gorgeous build!!!
> ...
> - terryR


Very carefully. Flipping it over is one thing. Not too hard to go from flat to standing on edge. A little harder to let it down gently. Considerably harder to move it off the desk bench into the cradles. Haven't yet tried to move it back


----------



## Iguana

> Yeah, Mark, I meant to ask last week when your bench top was up-side down…how do you lift it? Goodness, you must be a big fellow! What a gorgeous build!!!
> ...
> - terryR
> 
> Very carefully. Flipping it over is one thing. Not too hard to go from flat to standing on edge. A little harder to let it down gently. Considerably harder to move it off the desk bench into the cradles. Haven t yet tried to move it back
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Scratch that.

Ima use the Force.


----------



## Bigun

Got a question about the Benchcrafted criscross retro. I know it shows the bracket bolt holes being threaded into the chop and bench. My question is, could you use threaded inserts instead? I mean, I know you could but would it be just as strong or is there any reason against using them?


----------



## Sylvain

Bobro, 
You might like to have a look at this "catalog": http://lostartpress.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/forge-royale-compressed.pdf

I am not able to identify the use of each item.


----------



## bobro

Thanks, Sylvain, that is very cool!

And there's the jig I was referring to earlier, number 99-106, under Boites a Recaler, Plates pour Menusiers, translated as a "flat jack for joiners". You can see that you can make variations according to your needs. I guess "flat jack" does sound better than "little threaded jig" and "Boit a Recaler Plat" or however it's said in French is even more swank.

It's fun looking through that old catalog, I bet there are some mystery items.


----------



## Sylvain

Bobro
In the 99-106, one can clamp with 3 different angles : 90°, 45° and another one to make either octagones or octogones.

See also 
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/106506


----------



## RPhillips

> Got a question about the Benchcrafted criscross retro. I know it shows the bracket bolt holes being threaded into the chop and bench. My question is, could you use threaded inserts instead? I mean, I know you could but would it be just as strong or is there any reason against using them?
> 
> - Troy Cleckler


I recently installed a Criss-Cross solo , love it. I would think that you could use inserts, but I would think it wouldn't be necessary. If the brackets are mating with the mortise properly, the screws holding the brackets are really not seeing much stress.


----------



## Iguana

Finished my wagon vise install yesterday:









Not much else got done, though. It was a long day for a simple task.


----------



## bobro

> Bobro
> In the 99-106, one can clamp with 3 different angles : 90°, 45° and another one to make either octagones or octogones.
> 
> See also
> http://lumberjocks.com/projects/106506
> 
> - Sylvain


That's a great little jig, and beautifully made.


----------



## RPhillips

Mark, looking good. Wish I could have that hardware to go on my bench.


----------



## Iguana

Got the leg tenons cut today. Film at 11:00.










RoadHogg asked about the weight of the top. Dimensions are 4" thick by 25" deep by 96" long. Mostly cherry, with two jatoba boards and end caps. If it were all cherry, that would weigh 194 lbs. Factoring in the denser jatoba, around 215 lbs. Plus the weight of the vise hardware.

Oops, I.am.Canadian. That'd be 97.5 kgs. The puppy's going to be well over 200 kgs when fully assembled. Then I'm going to add a chest in the base. It's gonna sink into the floor.


----------



## terryR

Mark, you're a working Beast! Getting as much done in a weekend as Red!  Your bench is gonna be awesome…

After using the BC hardware on my Moxon for a single week…I MUST save up for their wagon vise hardware now.

Hey, has anyone even seen an English bench with massive aprons and a wagon vise? Seems as though when I turn the bench upside down, that apron would serve as great support, or at least a straight line for layout, for the hardware install?


----------



## Airframer

Moxon Monday!


----------



## duckmilk

Nice tails, Eric! Whatcha makin?


----------



## Airframer

I'm making a small tool chest for the boys tools to live in.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Pins are kindy chubby. Like your booty.


----------



## Airframer

I like big pins.. and I cannot lie..

They did come out a bit fatter than intended but they get the job done


----------



## Mosquito

I usually go for wider tails, because it means less work lol


----------



## Iguana

Got the legs tenoned into the top today. Blog entry. I'm reeeeeally hoping I can get it done this week so I get on to building furniture.










Or if you prefer,


----------



## Iguana

Terry, having just installed the BC wagon vise, I don't see why you couldn't use it - or something like it - on your bench. You'd have to throw away the dimensioned drawings and figure out your own mounting - probably involving some spacing blocks for the guide rails underneath. The huge apron/end cap would pose no problem.

As to whether it would be found on a traditional English bench - not likely  But why not?

More likely to be found would be an end vise (single or double screw). With a dog hole(s) in the vise jaw, would function nearly identically to a wagon vise.


----------



## Iguana

Terry, just took at look at your bench. Only issue I can see would be that you need to cut a hole in one of your top stretchers to make room for a screw for either type of vise.


----------



## bobro

> I like big pins.. and I cannot lie..
> 
> They did come out a bit fatter than intended but they get the job done
> 
> - Airframer


Me too. Those look about exactly right. The dovetails I don't like are the ones with extremely narrow pins, few and widely spaced pins, and dovetails with such mild angles that they look like slightly modified finger joints.


----------



## knockknock

+1 on manly pins.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I like all dovetails, but small pins look better to my eye. Like Mos was sayin, I always set out to make small pins…but they hardly ever turn out that way.

That think looks great Mark. Love the condors. Also know what you mean about getting back to building furniture. I feel that way about halfway through any shop build.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Mark! I was wondering about my top stretchers getting in the way. My BIGGEST hurdle will be sneaking $300 worth of shiny hardware past the wife!  Maybe a simpler vise can get me started with some small furniture…

Jeez…remind me NOT to post my DT's on here! Just finished my last 'practice' set, and would gladly accept Eric's! Drawing the pins/tails on paper sure helped me with mediocre spacing…


----------



## duckmilk

Your whole build is looking great, Mark. And, who says a bench isn't furniture? Yours certainly looks the part.

BTW, where's Auggie? He reported his bench was done. Did someone on this thread tick him off?


----------



## duckmilk

> I m making a small tool chest for the boys tools to live in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Airframer


What about the chest/cabinet you were building for yourself? Did you finish it? I haven't checked that thread in a long while.


----------



## August

> Your whole build is looking great, Mark. And, who says a bench isn t furniture? Yours certainly looks the part.
> 
> BTW, where s Auggie? He reported his bench was done. Did someone on this thread tick him off?
> 
> - duckmilk


LOL


----------



## duckmilk

Very nice, Aug. Can't wait to see the wagon vise.


----------



## Mosquito

I've no issues with the pins above, those are about the size I make mine, usually. It's the tails that I usually make bigger.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Doesn't look like the same bench Auggie. We'll be needin' another bondo pic.


----------



## ToddJB

+1


----------



## JKMDETAIL

Well guys again some wonderful looking stuff in here. Been following this progress for a while now. I am getting ready to start gathering materials and notice the boards used for the tops are most always full length. Was wondering if that was more or less a requirement. If I came up with shorter pieces and staggered much like you do flooring how stable it would be.

Still don't have a plan nailed down for sure. Likely to be a mixed up version of my own.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## Mosquito

It's not really a requirement JKM, I think it's just easier. Boards don't have to be the exact same thickness that way. If you were going to stagger boards like a butcher block top, you'd want to make sure they're exactly the same thickness, or you'll end up with gaps during glue up.


----------



## Airframer

> What about the chest/cabinet you were building for yourself? Did you finish it? I haven t checked that thread in a long while.
> 
> - duckmilk


Well… lets just say it has kinda gone the way of Stefs bench for now…


----------



## jmartel

> Well… lets just say it has kinda gone the way of Stefs bench for now…
> 
> - Airframer


Eternal purgatory?


----------



## Iguana

> It s not really a requirement JKM, I think it s just easier. Boards don t have to be the exact same thickness that way. If you were going to stagger boards like a butcher block top, you d want to make sure they re exactly the same thickness, or you ll end up with gaps during glue up.
> 
> - Mosquito


+1

I'd make the outer boards full length, though.

I'd also be tempted to scarf joint the shorter boards.together, and then dimension the resulting longer board. Depending on which way you oriented the scarf, you could end up with a cool zigzag effect on the top.


----------



## merrill77

> Well guys again some wonderful looking stuff in here. Been following this progress for a while now. I am getting ready to start gathering materials and notice the boards used for the tops are most always full length. Was wondering if that was more or less a requirement. If I came up with shorter pieces and staggered much like you do flooring how stable it would be.


I did that with my workbench - I didn't have enough 72" boards for my top but had a lot of extra 40" boards. Given the strength of modern glues, I feel safe stating there will be no difference in the strength or stability of the top. Hasn't been in my case, certainly.

Other than arranging more parts, there wasn't much additional work, AFAICT. Spreading glue on two 40" boards seemed to be exactly the same amount of work as one 80" board. Maybe a few more seconds of alignment during clamping. It is worth noting that I glued my boards up in pairs…then after drying, glued up pairs of pairs….then pairs of quads, etc. That just happened to work out well for my design and available time.

Chris


----------



## Iguana

Auggie, looking good. Thats an impressive number of lag bolts on the end cap!


----------



## Iguana

> Your whole build is looking great, Mark. And, who says a bench isn t furniture? Yours certainly looks the part.
> 
> - duckmilk


Thank you!

The bench is massive enough that it should outlive me by a couple of centuries. I occasionally wonder if it will end up as furniture in someone's living room or kitchen.


----------



## August

> Auggie, looking good. Thats an impressive number of lag bolts on the end cap!
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Thanks and also thanks for reminding me.
I had to make some plugs for those 
I use a 3/4 frostner bit and 
I'm using a 3/4 brass rod and gonna do some knurling so It will grab the wood better


----------



## August

> I ve no issues with the pins above, those are about the size I make mine, usually. It s the tails that I usually make bigger.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito


are you making a dutch chest?


----------



## Mosquito

Yes sir!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> .. gonna do some knurling…
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Oh, that is so cool. Never knew how that was done before today. Thanks, August, for the lesson!


----------



## August

Thanks smitty
Well here it is


----------



## DanKrager

Smitty, if you've never seen knurling done before, you might have missed that there are two rollers on the tool, and they are "grooved" differently so the diamond knurl pattern is formed in one pass. What's interesting to me about that process is that the grooves can be made to line up along the length of the piece because the rollers "find" the previous impression and work it deeper. Pretty slick. Wish there was a similar process for wood…
DanK


----------



## DanKrager

August, you've got classy taste. That's all, brother!
DanK


----------



## bobro

Those are some swank plugs, nice!

Now, keep in mind that the Mudflap Girl went into public domain a couple of years ago, so for your next brass work, inlays for example, you know what to do….


----------



## richardwootton

Does anyone remember the auger bits that Schwarz recommended for drilling dog holes?


----------



## August

Thanks DanK
Thanks bobro

Richard I wish I can help.


















Planning stop installed (copied from BRK)
Now just someone to turn me a wood handle for bolt


----------



## RPhillips

Damn Aug, looking pretty sexy! love the plane stop and the brass pluggs are just over the top… love it!


----------



## CL810

> Does anyone remember the auger bits that Schwarz recommended for drilling dog holes?
> 
> - richardwootton


The Wood Owl Tri Cut which you can buy here.


----------



## richardwootton

Thanks Clayton, you're a BAWSE! I've got my holdfasts on the way, and it's time to drill some holes, which makes me a little nervous.


----------



## August

> Thanks Clayton, you re a BAWSE! I ve got my holdfasts on the way, and it s time to drill some holes, which makes me a little nervous.
> 
> - richardwootton


Well buddy don't be!
I can lend you my magnetic drill?









Only problem the damn thing weights 115lbs?
Anyway just a thought


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

They're holes.

Hope this builds confidence, that's what is intended.

Don't overthink them, they're holes.

Use hold fasts a year, and the holes will elongate some. Grow, actually. It's okay. Go as straight as you can, it'll be fine… If $30 drill bits help, go for it, but it's not needed. You've build the bench, hole drilling ain't no big thang…


----------



## CL810

Richard, you'll need a 1/2" chuck for that bit. If you're going to use a hand drill some popeye forearms will come in handy.


----------



## Airframer

> They re holes.
> 
> Hope this builds confidence, that s what is intended.
> 
> Don t overthink them, they re holes.
> 
> Use hold fasts a year, and the holes will elongate some. Grow, actually. It s okay. Go as straight as you can, it ll be fine… If $30 drill bits help, go for it, but it s not needed. You ve build the bench, hole drilling ain t no big thang…
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


^^ This.. Just This..


----------



## duckmilk

> - August McCormick Lehman III


Augie, if those were threaded in the center, they would make some awesome knurled nuts for hand tighnening things.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I lub my big bench.


----------



## widdle

^ hope that 5 works on end grain..


----------



## August

> I lub my big bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


What cha Makkin? Man


----------



## chrisstef

> Well… lets just say it has kinda gone the way of Stefs bench for now…
> 
> - Airframer


Pssshh ….


----------



## August

Damn^ that's a big bench


----------



## Airframer

> Well… lets just say it has kinda gone the way of Stefs bench for now…
> 
> - Airframer
> 
> Pssshh ….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - chrisstef


Well played sir.. well played..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> ^ hope that 5 works on end grain..
> 
> - widdle


hehehe. Nah, that's what a skilsaw (widdles bread'n'buddah) is for.

It's a reclaimed dining table Auggie. Hoping to get a bunch done on it today.


----------



## jmartel

> Pssshh ….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - chrisstef


It's a Red sized bench.

Now where's the Bondo shot?


----------



## richardwootton

> Well… lets just say it has kinda gone the way of Stefs bench for now…
> 
> - Airframer
> 
> Pssshh ….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - chrisstef


Great restore on that sweet little panel saw I see there!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

BONDO! ~~ BONDO! ~~ BONDO! ~~ BONDO! ~~ BONDO!


----------



## theoldfart

Me thinks maybe MiNI-ME BONDO


----------



## chrisstef

We'll see if we can get the little guy to hook it up on with an extra special Christmas Bondo


----------



## Iguana

Got the leg vise hardware mounted today:










Blog post here.

Already love the way the vise works. Takes some care with installation - and way, way easier to install on a new build - but it is very slick in operation.

Looking for ideas for coating the wheel and Crisscross. They will rust without some kind of treatment but I'm not sold on either gun bluing or baking on flax oil. Any suggestions?

Dammit Stef, I was sure I was going to beat you to the finish line


----------



## Sylvain

*Mark*, recessing the nut to get an extra travel inch would be much easier now than later.

Why would one a long travel vise for cabinet making?

For drawer planing.










(I don't remember in which book I have seen this)

IMHO more elegant then what is shown in CS blog "You Are the Vise of Meat".

See also


----------



## Iguana

Good call, Sylvain. On another bench, I've done exactly that.


----------



## RPhillips

I recessed mine too…figured why not.. not much trouble to do and couldn't find any reason not to.


----------



## Bugnurd

I posted this a few days ago in Joinery but didn't get any responses. Perhaps the bench junkies here have an opinion.
I just noticed that in the plan I'm loosely following for a roubo bench, it calls for a small shoulder on the inside edge of the tenon. Is this shoulder absolutely necessary? Will leaving it out compromise the integrity or stability of the bench? I could glue a 1×6 to each leg for the shoulder, but I'd rather not if it doesn't need it. I just don't know enough about joinery to decide. What do you think? This is where I'm at now…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Marc- It is true that the strength of a mortise and tenon joint comes from the shoulder. (as opposed to the cheeks as often thought). However, you technically have a huge should in the middle of that leg. Plus, if your doing a through tenon, it will be plenty strong. That's what I did on my bench, other than dovetailing the front tenon.

The only other nice thing about a shoulder is that it hides any chipout on the mortise. Not such a big deal on the underside of the bench.

My advice: if it's a through tenon through top….and you want it to look good, make the mortise slightly undersized and reserve the right to shave a little off that tenon for a good fit. If you end up with a small shoulder, so be it


----------



## Sylvain

+1 with Red,
If you consider non glued tenon and mortise like tusk tenons and pegged tenons without glue,
The wedge or the peg will keep things together but it is the shoulder wich will define the geometry (perpendicularity if not deliberately askew).


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

+1 to Sylvain's +1 of Red's advise. I think it's spot-on.

Let us know what you decide!


----------



## Bugnurd

Awesome, thanks! I plan on wedging the inside tenon, and dovetailing the outside one, like on a Roubo.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Awesome, thanks! I plan on wedging the inside tenon, and dovetailing the outside one, like on a Roubo.
> 
> - Bugnurd


Ya, you won't have any strength issue with that joint. Strong like bull!


----------



## Bugnurd

Great! I got the dovetails cut today. Woodworking is fun!


----------



## richardwootton

Nice Marc, those look clean. Did you hand cut them?


----------



## Bugnurd

Thanks Richard. I cut them by hand and cleaned them up with a chisel. I'm using all hand tools since I currently don't own any power tools. I cheated a bit though. The legs are laminated 2×6s so I didn't have to cut out the middle shoulder. All I had to do was the corners of the dovetail tenon. I'm trying to work smarter, not harder!


----------



## Airframer

Gotta love the leg vise!


----------



## terryR

^gotta admit…jealous of such a leg vise! My LV would never open that wide. Guess I got what I paid for with the $49 hardware?

Nice legs, Marc.

What say ye about this LV end vise? Think it could be fitted behind my huge aprons, and function as a decent wagon? only needs a front chop?










Edit: I shouldn't use the word wagon above…just end vise…


----------



## grfrazee

@terryR, I used that same vice in my bench and it works fine. My end vise chop is about 5-6" square and a little longer than the screw of the vise.


----------



## bandit571

A "mini-bench" from scraps









More of a place to set my "router table" than sitting on a tool chest









Old loft bed parts, and some leftover plywood. Just plain, old drywall screws to hold thing together. Cost? NADA…


----------



## woodbench

So I recently scored on some nice 3.5 X 5.5 rough pcs that were used to palletize cell tower sections. I have 12 pcs approx. 48" long and three pcs approx. 72" long. My plan is to use them for the legs and stretchers on a new bench, back in the summer I acquired a 30" wide 3-1/2 thick 84" long hard maple top. Im thinking the wood is either yellow poplar or one of the "soft" maple varities. Can anyone help me ID and will it be ok for a workbench base?


----------



## richardwootton

Lloyd, it looks like poplar to me, but it's kind of hard to tell from the picture. In either case, you'll be just fine using that for the base.


----------



## CL810

Yep, perfectly fine bench top.


----------



## Iguana

Couple of slow days in the shop, but the legs are mortised and am halfway through fitting the tenons.

But not before making what is probably the most glaring mistake I've done on this project:









Fortunately, that's an easy patch. Or maybe I make it into a magnetic catch for the deadman.


----------



## terryR

grfrazee, Thanks for the link to your Blog…photos are worth a thousand words! 

That's a bummer, Mark. Goodness, those legs seem larger every time I see them!


----------



## theoldfart

Mark, secret compartment maybe?


----------



## Iguana

Terry, they seem larger and heavier every time I have to lift them, too.

Kevin, cool ideas. If a piece of fine furniture like a Federal period secretary desk can have a secret compartment, why can't a workbench? Only, it ought to be big enough to hold something like a shotgun…


----------



## theoldfart

Mark, saw a lot of secret compartments in the Williamsburg furniture workshops. Pretty cool designs and fabulous builds. I'm looking forward to going back, the cabinet shop folks gave me a brochure on a desk workshop in January but already missed two months of work/billable hours so …........


----------



## jmartel

> Terry, they seem larger and heavier every time I have to lift them, too.
> 
> Kevin, cool ideas. If a piece of fine furniture like a Federal period secretary desk can have a secret compartment, why can t a workbench? Only, it ought to be big enough to hold something like a shotgun…
> 
> - Mark Kornell


I dunno. You could probably stash a small amount of drugs in there. Use your bench as a drug mule.


----------



## DanKrager

KEVIN!!!! Did you say "....w..w…w…...work?" and "b…billable hours" in the SAME SENTENCE? I thought you were tired and retired! Re-framed, too.
DanK


----------



## john2005

He lied apparently.

Mark just thickness your front strecher, double tenon and say you were were worried about it racking…. Probably not gonna fly with those legs, but what the hey!


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, trying to get out from under the work thang but a couple of clients have not had much success finding a replacement and that deer-in-the-headlight look gets to me. Should be wound down in a couple of months. Did get out skiing Friday and going again next Tuesday and Friday!


----------



## Iguana

John, unfortunately that stretcher needs to be set back so it clears the Crisscross mortise on the other front leg. Otherwise, there was no need to have that one offset from the others.

While I like the secret compartment idea, that one would be a little small. Doubt I could fit even a small roll of bills in it. Way better if I could make the whole leg open up to reveal a whiskey bar. Hmm… One leg for bourbon, one for scotch and one for beer…


----------



## theoldfart

^ hence the term "hollow leg"


----------



## john2005

I guess I missunderstood what you had going there. Not real familiar with how the Criss Cross works. I do like where your head is at with the "keg in the leg" though.


----------



## putty

I don't have a smackdown worthy bench, but I did make my current bench more usable. I had a metal Vise on top of the bench, and finally removed that piece of junk! Woodcraft had a black Friday sale and I got this vise for 38.00 I had to build up the bottom of the bench with 2×4's this will hold me until I can build a proper bench.
the smackdown is at the end!!!










I'm in the process of planning the top of the bench smooth.










When I made the bench about 20 years ago I made it out of 2×6's and glued and toenailed oak T&G flooring. some of it is not as thick as others so I'm running into areas that are lot lower than others…I may just have to live with it for now.










Now for the Smackdown, My wife and I were at a Christmas white elephant party, we each got one of these…she doesn't drink much beer, i'll take care of it for her.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, putty, that is nice. The vise and the Smackdown! Great work on the fitting of the face vise vs. top-mounting thing. You're committed to working the wood now.


----------



## putty

Thanks Smitty,

That no.7 was giving me a workout on the top!!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, man! Didn't realize that'd be what you're using!

Bad news, it's a bunch of iron to push around with larger projects.

Good news, a plane like that, once in motion, tends to stay in motion.

It's gotta be wearing you out. Good thing there's some Heineken nearby, for those frequent breaks.


----------



## putty

Im Hacking it off cross grain, a real satisfying crunching sound when it bites off.

Actually, I have been using the 7, a 5 and a 603

and yes the back of my arms are sore


----------



## JayT

> Actually, I have been using the 7, a 5 and* a 603*


Pictures are required of this alleged Bedrock, so that we can validate it existence. ;-)


----------



## putty

Here you go Jay,
It was my Dad's, I think he got it new as a young lad. He was born in 1924 Wish I would have talked to him more about his tools before he died.


----------



## putty

sorry about the pictures, I put a photobucket app on my phone and then resized through photbucket…it didn't work.


----------



## putty




----------



## putty

I will put them on the plane thread tomorrow when I sober up…I must have had too much of that heiniken!!!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ah, a 603C! Very nice!


----------



## August

> Actually, I have been using the 7, a 5 and* a 603*
> 
> Pictures are required of this alleged Bedrock, so that we can validate it existence. ;-)
> 
> - JayT


Your crazy man
LOL


----------



## JayT

Nice 603C! Type 7 or 8 by the lever cap, if all is original. If you want to really get Smitty in a lather, tell him it's got a Sweetheart logo iron.

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## putty

well maybe it is older than I thought, maybe my great grandfathers. I'll put some pics on the plane thread later, maybe y'all can help me date it.

yup…sweetheart!!

Thanks.


----------



## terryR

Nice looking flat top, Putty!

Bench is looking good, too. I love to see handplanes flatten benches…says the guy with no router…sore arms are good for the soul.


----------



## Slyy

Putty, that's a great looking bench and nice vise. Just cut my first tenons today and realized first hand how much I need to get my 60's era wilton quick release installed!!! 3 pieces of scrap wood and 4 irwin style quick clamps is not an adequate replacement for a good vice (and I still had to use a hand to hold my work piece still)!

And a shweet looking 603c you got there as well, not to mention some dang fine personal history to go along with it!


----------



## Iguana

Bench is almost ready for assembly. All the pieces are milled, drilled, chopped and cut. Just need to do some sanding - primarily to erase my layout marks - before starting on the glue.

Blog Entry here.

I inadvertently started on the finishing process today. DNA-based, but it isn't shellac.









Here's where it was leaking from:









Kinda sucked, because I needed to play guitar this evening and the cut is about where my finger presses on strings. I've played until my fingers bled before, but I've never started out that way. CA glue made the session bearable…


----------



## jmartel

Hah, I did the same thing to my Mom's jewelry box the other day. Had to sand it out.


----------



## richardwootton

Some of you guys might remember my post a while back about buying a stack of 5/4 red oak for my bench build. After I dimensioned all of it, I found out it was all furniture grade quarter sawn red oak. I decided I couldn't use all of that beautiful tiger striped oak for a bench.

So, a couple weeks ago I found a guy running his own bandsaw mill cutting red and white oak. So I called him up and ordered between 80-100 board feet of 8/4, 7'-10' lengths and about 5" wide. When I got there to pick it up, the stack looked a bit bigger than expected because he "threw in a couple extra boards."

After I get it all stickered and stacked to dry, I start doing some math, and it comes out to between 160-180 board feet of mostly white oak, and some red. All for 100 bucks! This has now been dedicated for my bench.


----------



## richardwootton

Sorry for the crappy iPhone photo!


----------



## ToddJB

Dang Richard. You scored big time twice. Awesome.


----------



## putty

wow Richard, that is nice. How long do you think it will take to dry?


----------



## jmartel

160-180 board feet designated for a bench. That's going to be a big bench.


----------



## richardwootton

> wow Richard, that is nice. How long do you think it will take to dry?
> 
> - putty


Well normally I'd dry it a year per inch, but this spring I'll probably pull it out and set up a small solar kiln to get it built this summer.



> 160-180 board feet designated for a bench. That s going to be a big bench.
> 
> - jmartel


Jmartel, there's definitely more there than I need, but I'll use up a good bit of it for sure. Never hurts to have a little extra!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Putty, excellent plane with a fine pedigree (Stanley SW and being your granddad's)!


----------



## putty

Thanks Smitty

Great Grandads, granddad was a train engineer…days of steam. Unlike Red he was not a woodworker.


----------



## Slyy

Richard! Awesome score, looks like Mr. Sawmill has a repeat customer! Can't wait to see you get started!


----------



## CL810

Richard- Incredible haul! Hope you bought a lottery ticket on your way home!! Cannot wait for the bench build pics!


----------



## Airframer

That's some nice wood you got there.. Mmmmhmmm..

Have to toss another shout out to the awesomeness of the leg vise..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Richard. There are guys who have good success with a tarp, a space heater and a dehumidifier. You could surely get it dry enough for a bench.


----------



## richardwootton

Thanks fellas, this guy definitely has a customer with me as long as he's running that mill! He has a tree service and decided to buy a woodmizer LT40 so all of the logs don't go to waste. 


> Good stuff Richard. There are guys who have good success with a tarp, a space heater and a dehumidifier. You could surely get it dry enough for a bench.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


That's kinda what I was thinking as well Red, that could save some time for sure!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^LJ pintodeluxe has done that quite a bit. I'm sure he wouldn't mind if you picked his brain in a pm.


----------



## BubbaIBA

> 160-180 board feet designated for a bench. That s going to be a big bench.
> 
> - jmartel


Not really if building a French style bench, 200 BF may be enough for an bench with a 2'X8' slab, nice sized but not really big. A 4"X 24"X 96" slab is 64 BF. by the time you figure in wastage you will have at least 100 BF in just the slab. You can figure about 10 BF per leg plus close to 40 BF for stretchers. If you add a leg vise there is almost 8 BF for the chop. Add a bottom shelf and a deadman and it adds up over 200 BF pretty quickly.

I've yet to build a nice sized French style bench using less than 200 BF. Once you start dimensioning lumber to bench sized pieces the waste is pretty high. When I buy wood for a bench build I will shoot for close to 300 BF of 8/4 lumber so I have some left over but there is usually not a lot extra wood when finished.

Of course as with all things wood…..YMMV.

ken


----------



## Iguana

Richard, 160 bf sounds about right for a Roubo. The lumber order for my bench was 150bf, and I've got 1 board (15 bf) left over. Having a bit extra gives you the ability to pick your boards for best grain orientation and appearance.


----------



## jmartel

> Not really if building a French style bench, 200 BF may be enough for an bench with a 2 X8 slab, nice sized but not really big. A 4"X 24"X 96" slab is 64 BF. by the time you figure in wastage you will have at least 100 BF in just the slab. You can figure about 10 BF per leg plus close to 40 BF for stretchers. If you add a leg vise there is almost 8 BF for the chop. Add a bottom shelf and a deadman and it adds up over 200 BF pretty quickly.
> 
> I ve yet to build a nice sized French style bench using less than 200 BF. Once you start dimensioning lumber to bench sized pieces the waste is pretty high. When I buy wood for a bench build I will shoot for close to 300 BF of 8/4 lumber so I have some left over but there is usually not a lot extra wood when finished.
> 
> Of course as with all things wood…..YMMV.
> 
> ken
> 
> - BubbaIBA


I would disagree with those figures. Maybe if you don't use your materials efficiently, you lose that much. But losing 36% of the top to waste? Hardly. More like 10-15%. So, figure on 70-75bdft for a top.

10bdft per leg? Again, not really. 4×4 and 36" high is 4bdft. Plus 20%, so we'll round to 5bdft per leg. Call it 6 if you want to overestimate.

So you're at 100bft now, plus stretchers. 4 stretchers of 8/4 24 by say 4", and 4 stretchers of 8/4 96 by 4" is another 30bdft.

130bdft should be enough if you plan your materials well enough. And that's for a beefy bench.

EDIT: Seems Mark came to about the same number as I concluded.

I bought 150bdft of Oak for mine, had a lot of waste because it was all 6' pieces and a lot had twist in it, and have a few boards left over. But, I also only did 3" legs and a 3" top.


----------



## Iguana

Just calculated the total finished lumber quantity in my bench - 112 bf. Starting with 135 bf, that's 17% waste. I should clarify that is 112 bf of final dimension lumber, prior to cutting joinery. The waste in the mortises/tenons is about 3.5 bf, I think.

I had the luxury of picking boards suited to what I was making - 4.5" or 8.5 - 9" wide boards to go into making a 4" final thickness top. That helps with the efficiency.


----------



## Iguana

Assembling the bench tomorrow. My dad's coming by to help lift the top into place. The beer is already cold.

Got all the pieces of the base finished and prepped for assembly tomorrow. It's going to be epic!

Short blog entry of today's activity.


----------



## j1212t

Mark how can you be sure that the beer is already cold? Have you tested it? I would sample a few before your dad gets there..


----------



## Iguana

Its cold because its been sitting in the shop fridge for 2 months. What's left of it, anyway


----------



## duckmilk

> - Mark Kornell


Mark, looks like you spilled quite a bunch of your dna on the paper. You OK?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I would disagree with those figures. Maybe if you don t use your materials efficiently, you lose that much. But losing 36% of the top to waste? Hardly. More like 10-15%....blah blah


Man Jmart, that engineering mind of your can't help but debate some goofy stuff at times.


----------



## Iguana

Duck, no DNA spilled. That's just the Waterlox I'm using for a finish. Drips off the rag a bit as I'm applying it.


----------



## jmartel

I got a spreadsheet for everything. Including a spreadsheet of spreadsheets.


----------



## richardwootton

^lol, Red that's what I was thinking. Sometimes I wish my mind worked more like that.


----------



## donwilwol

> I would disagree with those figures. Maybe if you don t use your materials efficiently, you lose that much. But losing 36% of the top to waste? Hardly. More like 10-15%....blah blah
> 
> Man Jmart, that engineering mind of your can t help but debate some goofy stuff at times.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Appearantly you guys haven't seen me at work!


----------



## Iguana

Just.saying…


----------



## Airframer

You know the rules.. Bondo or it didn't happen (like Stef)..


----------



## CL810

And I'm just sayin it's…... fantastic!

Is there a story about the trees we can see outside your shop window?


----------



## Iguana

Not quite done. Need to make dogs, dead man and shape the chop. Then there will be a Bondo.


----------



## Iguana

Other than the trees have no leaves? I'm in Canada and it is winter 

My place is surrounded by orchards. Those are cherry trees, about 100' away.


----------



## CL810

I thought maybe you had planted a bunch of trees.


----------



## Slyy

Wow Mark, she's looking great! Christmas Baby perhaps?


----------



## Iguana

Been a long day, so my blog post had to wait. Here it is.

Dad came by at 10:00, a bit early for beer. I'll drink my and his share Friday afternoon.

*Jake *- No, want to get that stuff done by Saturday.

*Clayton*, we will be planting some trees come spring/summer. Just finished building the house this fall, too late in the year to do any landscaping. My wife's been working with a landscape designer and I shudder to think what will be the budget on that part of the project. But in the meantime, all my surrounding neighbours have cherry orchards, totalling well over 100 acres. Here's a pic I took of the shop during construction (and in a somewhat warmer time of year


----------



## CL810

Mark that is a special view.


----------



## JayT

Bench is looking great, Mark. So's the view.

Are you planning to shape the leg vise chop or leave it as is?


----------



## Slyy

want to get that stuff done Saturday

Can't wait to see the final product! Have enjoyed looking through your blog on the build.


----------



## RPhillips

> Just.saying…
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Beautiful!


----------



## Iguana

Jay - yes, I will be shaping the chop.


----------



## bobro

> Jay - yes, I will be shaping the chop.
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Hope the shape will be voluptuous. Rambunctious and moist.


----------



## richardwootton

Looking great Mark! What did you use for the leg vise chop?


----------



## Iguana

*Bobro* - you sure you got the right forum? 

*Richard* - the chop and deadman are walnut.


----------



## john2005

Richard, nice score on the oak!

Mark, lookin awesome!


----------



## Iguana

As of Friday, dogs and deadman are now functional.

Of Dogs and Deadmen

Deadman is curvy, bobro 









Absolutely no attempt to be symmetrical.


----------



## richardwootton

That's wild Mark, I like it!


----------



## Iguana

And I got some shop time on Saturday to work on the chop. Basic shaping is done, just need to fair out a couple of details.


----------



## richardwootton

That's got to be one of the coolest looking chops I have ever seen!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yup. Mark's has the designer's eye.


----------



## Iguana

Red, I take the quote in you .sig to heart. Dunno if I'm there, but I try.


----------



## JayT

Very cool look for both chop and deadman, Mark. Can't wait to see it all finished.


----------



## ToddJB

OOOhhhh… I like that chop. Very Deco look. I, as well, am looking forward to the finished product.


----------



## terryR

+10 to that awesome chop! Right up there with Clayton's!
Mark, I hope you sign this bench. It's worthy IMO.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, I take the quote in you .sig to heart. Dunno if I m there, but I try.
> 
> - Mark Kornell


That's why its fun to watch you work!

I change my sig line all the time, but that one will stay for awhile. I heard Konrad say that in a video. That's pretty much my philosophy in all of woodworking…...including my shop.


----------



## JayT

The 2015 calendar is now available for order.


----------



## PhillipRCW

Mark, that's an awesome bench man. I'm working on the new shop design and need to get a functional assembly table quick, but I might have to sit down and design a worthy challenger of a bench to compete with yours.


----------



## bobro

> As of Friday, dogs and deadman are now functional.
> 
> Of Dogs and Deadmen
> 
> Deadman is curvy, bobro
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely no attempt to be symmetrical.
> 
> - Mark Kornell


That's awesome!


----------



## Iguana

Put the finishing touches on the chop and deadman today, sanded and slapped on some Waterlox.









Final assembly tomorrow.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^So, your just gonna leave it like that? lawl.


----------



## theoldfart

Mark, my bad but the deadman reminds me of a John Travolta pose


----------



## widdle

Nice work Mark..That bench is gonna be winner..


----------



## RPhillips

> Mark, my bad but the deadman reminds me of a John Travolta pose
> 
> - theoldfart


LAWLS!!!!!!


----------



## Iguana

^ *10!


----------



## Iguana

So, as of tomorrow, my bench is done. Who else is going to have an active build?


----------



## theoldfart

Been building mine for a few years now…....


----------



## RPhillips

I'm still in the process… stasis is more like it. Can't make a decision on the tail end, so drilling my top is on hold too. that's about all I have left to do.

*Mark* remember, no bench on LJ's is done until the *Bondo* is posted!


----------



## Mosquito

Hmm… I've Bondo'ed but I haven't applied finish yet… where does that put me?


----------



## terryR

Mos, you've…ummm…already taken your bench apart and moved, then re-assembled. I think you're done, buddy!

Get back to work on those 45 vids. 

If the Thread starts to fail, I can always flatten my bench for entertainment…it's past due.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Flat benchtops are overrated.


----------



## richardwootton

> Flat benchtops are overrated.
> 
> 
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


+1 to that brother! That is until I have to actually dimension thin stock, then I'm totally frustrated…


----------



## ssnvet

> Who else is going to have an active build?
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Well my hickory dropped 4 points to 18 % mc in just a month, so I might be ready to start in another month… Blogging a lathe bench build in the mean time…. it will have a poured concrete top though… so not really in keeping with the Roubo theme.


----------



## Iguana

I did the final assembly bench yesterday, and started flattening this morning. The final blog post will probably happen on Boxing Day - going to be kinda busy over the next day and a half 

Today's planing session brought to you by the numbers 4, 6 and 60½.









This was just to bring the front board and end caps down to level with the slab. It still needs a proper flattening, but is quite usable as it. Dunno when I'll get to that, but the next few projects I've got stacked up don't require truly flat.

One more thing…


----------



## ToddJB

Now that's a strapping beast!


----------



## CL810

There, now it's done as far as we're concerned. Great job Mark - it's a bench for generations.


----------



## donwilwol

> Now that s a strapping beast!
> 
> - ToddJB


Was the reference to the bench or Mark?

Great job Mark. The hat sets it apart!


----------



## ToddJB

> Was the reference to the bench or Mark?
> 
> - Don W


Yes, it was


----------



## theoldfart

Great work Mark, well done. And the chapeau, wow


----------



## Buckethead

Superb Mark. A masterpiece!


----------



## Iguana

Bucket! Haven't seen you around these parts in a while.

I don't normally wear.a.hat in the shop, but thought this was a special occasion.

The bench outweighs me by a large amount. Together, though, we crack concrete.


----------



## RPhillips

Nice job Mark, we can put this one in the books now. I really like the bench…


----------



## widdle

Great job Mark…Will be interested in all the dimensions if you get around to it…looks perfect..


----------



## Airframer

Very nice! Merry Christmas to you!


----------



## JayT

Looks awesome, Mark! That deadman is so unique and cool.


----------



## john2005

> Great job Mark…Will be interested in all the dimensions if you get around to it…looks perfect..
> 
> - widdle


Yeah, and the dimensions to the bench too please. It also looks perfect….


----------



## Iguana

The hat's a 7 1/2. What other dimension do you really need?


----------



## donwilwol

> The hat s a 7 1/2. What other dimension do you really need?
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Shoes size 11?


----------



## ssnvet

Great looking bench Mark.

Merry Christmas guys!


----------



## terryR

Excellent work, Mark. A masterpiece of a bench!
Hmmm, maybe we should require hats in the Bondo pose?
Seems I remember Bondo had one on!


----------



## yuridichesky

Mark, great bench + great bondo shot! 

Merry Christmas to all of you workbench builders!


----------



## duckmilk

Mark, great job on the bench, and you finished your Christmas present just in time

Merry Christmas to all!


----------



## Slyy

Mark, fantastic Bondo! You've done a great job!


----------



## Iguana

Close, Don. 10 1/2. 

Hope all y'all had a great Christmas day.


----------



## RPhillips

Check this out… pretty neat.

Dog Hole Bushing Guide


----------



## Bigun

So I got started on diamentioning the lumber for my Roubo bench yesterday. Didn't take me long to get frustrated trying to get the crowns and bows out. Got a little overwhelmed with as much lumber I was working with at one time. Took a break, talked to a nephew that's a long time wood craftsman, gave me some pointers on the jointer, which I thought I knew how to use. Took his advise and got back at it, all went well. 
I'm planning on leg tenons through the split top. My question is, how do you go about laying out the mortise placment? My plan today is to lay out the boards in order then work on the wagon vise before glue up. I milled the lumber for the legs with the top so I could take advantage of easier mortise and tenons by stacking the legs. The front slab will be glued up less the dog hole and front board but was thinking about one glue up for the rear.
In my mind, since I'll have to square up the ends to final length, is to figure out the front leg mortise placment, mark the center of the top and transfer the measurements to the rear and cut to final length once I get the cap on for the vise.
Am I anywhere close to being on track?
Thanks for any help.


----------



## Bigun

By the way, Mark, that bench is Awesome.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Troy- Ya milling with power has a learning curve…..and a bench build is a good way to learn. Keep in mind, if your laminating the top. you don't have to get every little bow out. They'll straighten out when you laminate them.

Unless you are intending to create the mortise by getting creative with the lamination(like I did) then I wouldn't lay out the mortises until the top is all glued up. Think your on the right track.


----------



## CL810

Troy, here's David Barron's video on the lamination method for through tenons. Starts at the 2 minute mark of the video.


----------



## bandit571

Well, well, lookee what wandered in to the house while I was gone









Says B&D WorkMate









Looks like the top needs some refurbishing









FREE! Of course….


----------



## ssnvet

Work Mates are very handy dandy little benches.

Mine is similar and I've gotten a lot of use out of it.


----------



## Bigun

> Troy, here s David Barron s video on the lamination method for through tenons. Starts at the 2 minute mark of the video.
> 
> - CL810


Yep I already seen it and that's what I plan on doing. Because I'm doing the split top it s making it a little difficult to lay out the rear slab legs. I decided to start with the front instead. Worked on building the wagon block and mortise. Got the slab glued finally. Certainly have respect for those that have built these style of benches. I had no idea of the work involved but glad I've finally gotten started.
Here's a couple pics. Let me know if anything stands out as an issue or any advise welcome.


----------



## Lucasd2002

Merry Christmas to me.


----------



## richardwootton

Nice Lucas!

And good work Troy!


----------



## RPhillips

> Merry Christmas to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Lucasd2002


Nice! that will go on my next build

Keep us posted on the build


----------



## Iguana

*Lucas* - it is very cool hardware!

*Troy* - glad to see another active bench build. Popcorn's ready.

I have finally posted the last blog entry for my bench, and also posted it as a project.

And the final bench shot:









Someone asked about dimensions. Apart from hat and shoe sizes, here's the numbers:

Slab is 99" long (wide?), 25" deep and 3 15/16" thick. Legs are 5 11/16" square. Overall height is 33 1/2". I calculate the weight with hardware to be right around 500 lbs.

I make a SketchUp model at the beginning of the process (3 years ago????). It went through a lot of revisions, but the bench ended up being pretty true to the final model. Most of the differences were due to me trying to maximize yield from a stick of lumber, rather than work to a dimension. E.g., getting 1 7/8" thickness from a board instead of 1 3/4".

Here's the SketchUp model.

I'm super happy with it so far. Admittedly, it has only been about 3 days and I haven't spent much time in the shop. Maybe I'm just super happy it is done!

Now I can get on to more pressing projects. You know, the ones clients are paying me to do…


----------



## Bigun

Very cool bench mark.


----------



## Bigun

Ok guys, need some help, please.
Here's a pic of the front slab glued except for dog hole and face boards. The mortise for the wagonvise only leaves 1-3/4" over two boards width. I plan on using black walnut as the end cap. The plans I'm using as a guideline shows to bolt a doubled up boards because of the, made from parts, wagon vise. I'm using LV vise so mine will just mount to the end cap.
My thinking is to cut maybe 1/2" down from top on these two boards and a mortise to match in the cap. Am I on the right track? What's your opinion?


----------



## theoldfart

Anyone close to CT? This may be the ticket
Stef?


----------



## CL810

Kevin, I was at Marc Adams School of Woodworking in June when he taught a bench build class. They used ash bench kits from Horizon Wood Products and that wood is incredible. Schwarz is using the same kits again.


----------



## Iguana

Troy,

1/2" mortise wall on your end cap is a bit thin. And those two boards don't need a tenon, they can just be cut flush. Because your vise screw goes through the end cap below those boards, and you'll be using a garter or retaining flange of some kind, leaving the end cap full thickness there is actually a good idea. That's the most stressed area on the end cap when the vise is in action.


----------



## Bigun

> Troy,
> 
> 1/2" mortise wall on your end cap is a bit thin. And those two boards don t need a tenon, they can just be cut flush. Because your vise screw goes through the end cap below those boards, and you ll be using a garter or retaining flange of some kind, leaving the end cap full thickness there is actually a good idea. That s the most stressed area on the end cap when the vise is in action.
> 
> - Mark


I plan on end cap having 1-1/2" deep mortise. The vise end cap and bearing that will screw to outside of end cap. I'm trying to figure out how to give extra support for the two thinner boards other than just butting the end cap to them. Don't know if that's really making sense or not.
If I understand you though, it's the end cap that'll take the stress. Shouldn't be banging on that end that close to the vise anyway.


----------



## Iguana

Troy,

I understand what you are saying. Those two boards don't need extra support. They'll be solidly glued to the next one, and you won't have any issues with deflection over the 3" or so unsupported overhang. You probably could bang away on top of them without issue, although due to the location you likely won't.

The stress in that area is where you attach the retaining flange for the screw. ALL the clamping force is directed through that attachment, and counteracted by how you attach the end cap to the bench. Those are the areas you do need to think about.


----------



## Bigun

> Troy,
> 
> I understand what you are saying. Those two boards don t need extra support. They ll be solidly glued to the next one, and you won t have any issues with deflection over the 3" or so unsupported overhang. You probably could bang away on top of them without issue, although due to the location you likely won t.
> 
> The stress in that area is where you attach the retaining flange for the screw. ALL the clamping force is directed through that attachment, and counteracted by how you attach the end cap to the bench. Those are the areas you do need to think about.
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Thinking about one dovetail on face board and cap then mortise and tenon with little glue on center couple boards and maybe a dowel through the tenon in the center.
Sound feasible?


----------



## Iguana

Troy,

No, doesn't sound feasible. Here's why - you will glue the dovetail at the front corner because you want that joint to securely anchor the wagon vise screw as well as keep the front edge flush. Therefore the end cap needs to allow movement from there to the back. Gluing in the center isn't an option.

Most use bolts to hold the end caps on and allow movement via oversize holes. If you want to avoid bolts, you could use drawbored pegs - at least two - in slotted holes in the tenon. The issue with drawbored pegs is the limited amount of wood in the tenon behind the holes. That joinery needs to hold back against about 50% of the clamping force. Realistically, you're looking at 1/2" of wood past the slotted hole - probably not enough even if you use 2 pegs. And in softwood, even if the joint doesn't fail, you risk deformation over time.


----------



## Bigun

> Troy,
> 
> No, doesn t sound feasible. Here s why - you will glue the dovetail at the front corner because you want that joint to securely anchor the wagon vise screw as well as keep the front edge flush. Therefore the end cap needs to allow movement from there to the back. Gluing in the center isn t an option.
> 
> Most use bolts to hold the end caps on and allow movement via oversize holes. If you want to avoid bolts, you could use drawbored pegs - at least two - in slotted holes in the tenon. The issue with drawbored pegs is the limited amount of wood in the tenon behind the holes. That joinery needs to hold back against about 50% of the clamping force. Realistically, you re looking at 1/2" of wood past the slotted hole - probably not enough even if you use 2 pegs. And in softwood, even if the joint doesn t fail, you risk deformation over time.
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Will this be the case even if it's a split top and we're talking about 11-1/2" width for the front slab?
I'm using the through the top mortis and tenon so the face board with dovetail will be only about 20". Really not crazy about the bolts but if that's the best option I may consider it.


----------



## Bigun

So, the back slab went better and easier than the first. I first glued the mortis sections and left for a couple hours then glued that section the the rest of the full lumber.
I couldn't find the angle for the dovetail tenon, guess that's what you call it. So my best guess was 22-1/2 degrees. Does that look about right? I guess it doesn't really matter because it's there now. Just wandering.
Also, the more I'm thinking about it im thinking I'd like to put wedges in the straight tenons, just for accents more than anything else I guess. So what's a good technique for this?
Anyway, here's a couple of pics.


----------



## richardwootton

I'm glad you asked that because I've been curious about the angle for the through dovetail tenon myself.


----------



## Iguana

I want to thank all of you who watched my build progress, and particularly those who offered comments and advise. And those who went before and shared their knowledge and experience. That knowledge, experience, comments and advise was invaluable and got absorbed into my design and build.

Those of.you who contribute in this thread, you are awesome. There is no better resource anywhere than the collective wisdom here. Thank you. And hopefully I can pay it forward some.


----------



## Bigun

+1 for what Mark said. I'm just beginning and I'm sure I'm gonna bug the crap out of you all with questions. So thanks ahead of time with your patience and guidance.


----------



## Iguana

> Will this be the case even if it s a split top and we re talking about 11-1/2" width for the front slab?
> I m using the through the top mortis and tenon so the face board with dovetail will be only about 20". Really not crazy about the bolts but if that s the best option I may consider it.
> 
> - Troy Cleckler


Troy,

The location and/or type of leg-to-top joint where the wagon vise is located is irrelevant. There are no forces directed through the vise into the leg joinery.

The split top makes managing the clamping forces harder because you only have half the width to work with. The back half doesn't do much in managing the forces because it doesn't have a solid connection to the front.

I remember reading something Tage Frid wrote - you need to worry about wood movement at any distance over 4". So gluing the front dovetail and in the center of the front half will cause problem eventually. And you still have the issue of not enough wood holding back the drawbored peg.

I can't say that bolts are the best option with 100% certainty. But have you looked for and found examples of non-bolted end caps in a split-top configuration? I'm not asking this in a rhetorical sense - I'd be very interested in knowing if there is a viable option to bolts.


----------



## Bigun

in my plans I was going to use 9boards for each section and when I got the lumber planed down the slabs was wider than 13 inches, the max for my planer. I decided I didn't want a thinner board in it so I went with 8 boards which give me 11-1/2". Then it didn't seem that it was going to be wide enough but man was I wrong. Looking at them, without the clamps, side by side, this bench is going to be massive.


----------



## CL810

Ya Troy, 23" or so is gonna be fine. Mine's only 21" and I have found it to be more than adequate.


----------



## Bigun

Ok guys, another question. Because of the way I'm building up the legs by lamaniation, if I use four boards it's going to be thicker than wide. Boards are 4-1/4" and four stacked will be 5-3/4". My question is, will that look ok or because it'll have support streacher across the top anyway, would it really need that inside board for the top to rest on? Leaving it off would bring it more to square but adding it would add heft but not sure if it would make that much difference anyway other than looks.


----------



## Iguana

Plus you'll have a gap between the two halves, so the bench will end up at ~25" (or more).

If you want to show "wedges" just as an accent, it would be pretty easy. Prior to assembly, put saw kerfs into the tenon and fill with a contrasting wood. Trim the excess and continue.

But if you want a functional wedge, it is a bit more complicated. You need to angle the ends of the mortise and cut wedges appropriate for the mortise end angle. Here's one way to do it, courtesy of American Woodworker.


----------



## Iguana

You don't need the extra thick leg from a structural POV. With or without the top stretcher. Personally, I'd add it because overkill is underrated, but that's just me. Looks-wise, you probably won't notice it one way or the other because of the long overhangs on both ends.


----------



## CL810

Troy, I don't think you'll need the back board but I am not familiar enough with the split top to say that with 100% confidence. The only negative I see with legs that large would be if you are going to have a leg vise it will cost you approximately 1.5" of travel of your chop if you have a rear nut. This joinery is so strong I can't imagine it being an issue. And if it is you can always slap on another board.


----------



## CL810

.unjammy


----------



## Bigun

> If you want to show "wedges" just as an accent, it would be pretty easy. Prior to assembly, put saw kerfs into the tenon and fill with a contrasting wood. Trim the excess and continue.
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Yep, just as an accent. if it fits tight already do i still angle the outside edges some and saw the kerf?


----------



## Bigun

> Troy, I don t think you ll need the back board but I am not familiar enough with the split top to say that with 100% confidence. The only negative I see with legs that large would be if you are going to have a leg vise it will cost you approximately 1.5" of travel of your chop if you have a rear nut. This joinery is so strong I can t imagine it being an issue. And if it is you can always slap on another board.
> 
> - CL810


Yeah, didn't think about taking up space for vise travel. I am going to have a leg vise, going to reclaim an old wooden screw that i found at a flea mall a while back. Definitely not Benchcrafted but I thought it would be cool to use something that was used many years ago by another woodworker.


----------



## CL810

Troy you might want to make a tenon with a piece of scrap to get a sense of proportions. Just my opinion but a thin wedge may not look right. I followed Barron's plans and made the wedges the same width as the "wings" of the tenon. While it would be a bit harder for you to create the angled mortise it would not be that bad because the board is exposed.

Edit: plus 1 on the old screw.


----------



## john2005

> Anyone close to CT? This may be the ticket
> Stef?
> 
> - theoldfart


Maybe we should all chip in so he doesn't have any more excuses!


----------



## Iguana

Troy,

If the "wedge" is just an accent, no need to do anything to the mortise. You'rs simply inlaying a piece (or two) into the tenon to make it look like a wedge, but no wedging action occurs. IMO, this is easier than trying to inlay the fake wedge after assembly.

You only angle the mortise if you are going to make a for-real wedged tenon.

As i found out, the leg thickness doesn't need to affect vise travel. The nut for the screw can be inset into the back of the leg as frvas you need it to go.


----------



## Bigun

not thinking ahead, I cut the front lamination top to length before running it through the planer. I plan on planing them tonight but I'm concerned about snipe. I do sometimes get snipe on the ends of flat boards but I haven't ran something this thick and heavy through it either. Is it likley it'll happen to these slabs too? The rear slab is still full length boards and haven't been cut yet so I was planning on doing that one first to see. Was just wandering what you guys thought?


----------



## bandit571

To avoid the "snipe" just run a longer board alongside the "good' board, and let the snipe occur on the scrap boards instead.


----------



## CL810

Troy, I'm sure you are doing the back slab first to see how much of an issue you'll have. Hope you have some infeed/out feed tables. Be sure to lift "up" on the trailing end as you feed it in until it's almost halfway in and then go to the other end of the slab and lift up on the leading end until the planer has finished advancing the wood. Wouldn't hurt if you had a buddy to help, it's a lot wood for one guy to handle depending on your setup.


----------



## Iguana

Troy, it probably won't be an issue either way. The legs are well inboard of any possible snipe, so your joinery location will be be flat. And you won't notice being out a few thousandths at the ends. You are likely going to have to hand plane the slabs flat a few times before the the wood stops moving anyway.

Though, what bandit says is good advise. If you can fit a board along side your slab. In your case, you don't need a full length board, just a couple of short ones. Feed one in a few inches ahead of the slab when you start a pass through the planer, and then another at the tail end.


----------



## Bigun

Thanks for the input. Used roller stands to help support, held up starting and finishing. Snipe wasn't an issue. And by the way, not one of you said anything about the slabs getting heavier the more times it passes through the planer! ;-)
Man that was a workout. Some things I have to do all by my lonesome but I'm gonna fill this in the morning. I feel it now!
I took off total of 1/4" which exposed a couple knots. Wasn't real happy with that but what I'm more upset about is the gaps that's there. I want to keep them as thick as possible and I'm not sure if planing them thinner will help anyway. Some of it you can fet fingernail into a little but most you can feel the glue. The ends look tight with no gaps. Is there a way to fix this short of ripping it and regluing? Do I worry about it failing? Do I get creative and put a bow tie patch in it?
Here's some pictures.


----------



## CL810

I'm tempted to kid you and say start over, lol, but I just can't. Fill it with epoxy (also good for the knots) or sand dust and glue and forget about it. Now you know why I wanted you to have a bud over! lol.

Good work Troy, have a beer and call it a day!


----------



## splatman

Cut slots centered on the offending seams, and glue in strips that slightly overfill the slots. After the glue has set, plane again to make it all smooth. Or use hand planes, to avoid having to grunt the slabs around again.


----------



## Airframer

I wouldn't even worry too much about the gaps. Fill with glue and dust and move on like Clayton said. The large amount of glue surface on each board will keep it together and solid just fine. Those gaps are only visual not structural.


----------



## splatman

Just read this whole smackin' thread! Over the course of a few weeks.
First, (#324 - #355) it went to the dogs. Then, to a bunch of other crazy places.
.#1507 KenBry makes a batch of end-grain bench dogs, not realizing, they are for end-grain workbenches.
.#1559 A workbench for CEOs.
.#1964 A whole 'nother meaning for Workbench.
.#1973 lysdexic gives precision milling machinery a run for their money.
.#2382 Mauricio messes up the core code of LJ, w/o realizing it is even possible. And blames it on Brandon. Maybe that's why Brandon is no longer around.
.#2431 Johnnyblot finds workbenches being misused as department store fixtures.
.#2462 Mauricio builds a workbench in his apartment with Flat out determination.
.#3157 HumidorMinister builds probably the exotic-est WB in LJ land.
.#3419 Someone does not know the difference between a WB and an entertainment center.
.#3533 A blue-haired girl sits in and watches the party.
.#3739 Bench Bunnies, and #7432 Bench Ducks arrive on the scene. Any more Bench Animals?
.#3817 A Porky vise chop.
.#3844 A member poses on his bench, and someone names it after a certain brand of auto body filler. Then, this "Auto Body Filler Bench Pose" becomes mandatory for everyone who has finished building his/her bench.
.#3952 Dave makes and sells holdfasts, until I decide to check out his website, and find out he does not even have a store. ??
Don W puts a large handwheel on his leg vise. Using that vise must be like driving a car!
.#3355 'Galoot' enters the woodworking lexicon.
Crocs get outlawed. I'd say, Screw that! Wear in your woodshop, what your feet likes best.
Along the way, I learn very few leg vise chops have crisscrosses. Until then. I thought they were standard equipment, thanks to this video .
Boatman invents a chain-based gizmo that keeps leg vise chops in parallel
Other members come up with their own ingenious ways to keeps their vise chops parallel.
There's the whole "Can you plan, build, and finish your workbench before Chris Stef finishes his?" club.
.#5621 An old toot comes along, determined to take Galoot to another level, only to find out it is too heavy to take to the next level.
Out good friend BigRedKnothead calls himself an Ogre a few times. What?? Last time I checked, Ogres are green, not red.
.#4251 Red builds a shed. Hay Red, did you paint your shed red?
Between your red hair and blue tank top, you kinda remind me of Lion-O, leader of the Thundercats.
Sing it: Thunder, thunder, thunder, Thundercats!
.#10287 A Vertical workbench. Must be for those who have more wall than floor.
Then the thread derails like a drunk train on bad tracks, spilling lumber (#10586) that a member called dibs on (#10588).
.#10611 Red derails the thread again. Red, please, stop that!
.#12952 Black Widows and Brown Recluses attempt murder on a few LJs. Too bad you did not have any Pascalite on hand.
.#10960 August McCormick builds a WB with a steel base. And makes it all Brassy. Almost Steampunk!
.#13059 Bench Cats are mentioned for the first time. And their comparison to Bench Dogs.
.#13850 Putty comes along with the No. 603. Now, that's one groovy plane!
.#13999 I offer my first suggestion on this thread.
.#14000 Airframer takes the #14000 cake.
.#14001 And now, this recap.


----------



## CL810

Workbench cliftnotes, index or eulogy?? Lol excellent work Splatman! Now take off tomorrow for a mental health day!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Lol. Awesome recap Splat.


----------



## theoldfart

Splat, outstanding executive summary.

ps still too heavy to move!


----------



## Slyy

Splat if I got anything outa that it was great seeing a Thundercats reference! Mum-Ra beware!
Nice recap, I agree take the day off have a beer. My initial pull to LJ's was this same thread, it's a heck of a trip!


----------



## merrill77

So how do I go back to post #10287 to see this vertical bench that I apparently missed?


----------



## richardwootton

> So how do I go back to post #10287 to see this vertical bench that I apparently missed?
> 
> - merrill77


Merrill,
I think that was the Lee Valley April Fools Day bench, if I remember correctly.

Splat! Wonderful synopsis! After I read the entire thread it felt like I had just read an epic Russian comedy!


----------



## Mosquito

> So how do I go back to post #10287 to see this vertical bench that I apparently missed?
> 
> - merrill77


http://lumberjocks.com/replies/810681

Richard was right, was the LV April fools thing this year


----------



## merrill77

My god, how could I forget that?

Thanks for the link…it was just as funny the second time around


----------



## Buckethead

Splatman just earned ample man points. He gets a pass on any mishaps or project delays for a period of one year, or on year and two months. Whichever is greater.


----------



## CL810

So Mos, how did you get the number 810681?


----------



## john2005

Hahaha, Splatman.


----------



## Mosquito

I just went back in the thread until I found the right post #... would be nice if post numbers were linked to by thread/post# instead of just replies/# (which don't match)...


----------



## Bigun

Ok, so I've decided to bolt on the end cap for the wagon vise. Do the bolts need to go into the center tenon or over and under tenon? And I'm assuming (yeah, yeah, I know) that the hole in the end cap needs to be slotted??? and if so, how? 
I'm thinking that I'll use lag screws? Ok or no?


----------



## Iguana

Bolts are better than lag screws. You'll be going into end grain, not great for holding screws.

Bolts will go through the center tenon.

Yup, the holes need to allow for movement. You could slot the end cap, or simply make the hole through the end cap somewhat oversized. On mine, I used a 3/8" diameter bolt, and the standard washer is 1" diameter. That gives you plenty of room. You could probably get away with a 1/2" hole, given that the softwood could deform a bit if necessary.


----------



## Bigun

Made a little more headway today. My first ever mortise by hand. Drilled the bulk first. I do have a mortise machine but one of the reasons for this bench is to do more hand work so I gave it a shot and I'm sure to those that can cut a perfect wall it looks amiturish, and it is but it works and my first one is on my bench. 
Got the wagon vise fitted and all seems to work well. Also got the dog holes drilled and glued on to the slab. I think I'll do a single through dovetail on the face board to end cap. Again, this will be a first. I haven't cut dovetails by hand before either but feel pretty sure of myself with a through dovetail.
I'm hoping the black walnut will do for my leg vise chop. It's 2-1/4" now but dressed would be around 2", has some twist I need to get out. So would 2"thick be good for chop?


----------



## CL810

Troy, what kind of vise is the chop for?


----------



## Bigun

Wood screw leg vise with x brace from Benchcrafted


----------



## CL810

Check the instructions on BC' s website. They recommend a minimum of 2.5". That's how I did my leg vise. I blogged about the criss cross a little here. Towards the end of my blog there is a link to jusfine's blog about the install that goes into more detail.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Is installing a Crisscross Retro easier than the normal one? Going to go this route just not sure if the extra $ is worth it.

*Edit* - apparently the Retro is better if you don't have a drill press? (which I don't have.)


----------



## Bigun

> Is installing a Crisscross Retro easier than the normal one? Going to go this route just not sure if the extra $ is worth it.
> 
> *Edit* - apparently the Retro is better if you don t have a drill press? (which I don t have.)
> 
> - ColonelTravis


The reason I got the retro, even though it's a new build, I felt it would be easier to install and and My drill press only has a 3in travel.


----------



## RPhillips

I installed classic on my bench using a cheapo HF press. Bought a 12" 3/8 bit and just kept raising the table until it went through.


----------



## Bigun

Got a lot done today. Actually finished the tops. I decided to bolt on the end cap, used 3/8" bolts and drilled 1/2" in the cap as suggested so that should allow for expansion. 
Well I changed my mind on the through dove tail and decided to go with a double half blind instead. this will be my first dovetail by hand and I wasn't nervous until I started to saw the end cap. Many hours went into this piece and I was about to either really screw up or or excited but I spent several minutes debating weather to continue or not. chopping it out was just as nerve racking but I just chipped away at it. I think it turned out fine, I did have to put a couple of slivers into a couple cracks. after the fact, glad I went this route, looks much better than I had hoped for.
Got the wagon vise installed and it seems to work great. Will probably see about getting a hand wheel and swap out the handle end. Just think I'll like it better.
Here's a few pics. Comments and criticism certainly welcome.


----------



## CL810

Troy that is some awesome work! Really looks nice.


----------



## Bigun

Thanks. I Can't believe its taken this long and as many hours as I've put into this. Enjoying the process though. Breaking new ground into areas I've never been before and trying new things. Good learning experience.


----------



## Buckethead

Agreed Cl810. Superb dovetails. Well done.


----------



## CL810

It seems like you're flying through it Troy. Lol! Of course, I'm not the one doing the work.


----------



## Bigun

Back to the chop for leg vise. If I make it around 8" wide I'll have about 4" or so left after I rip the board. Would I be better off slicing it into and laminating it side by side to the back or do I get another 4/4 board and have it solid laminated to the back or get another 12/4 board and use a solid board?
Trying to keep black walnut accents so what would look better for the center board and tool holder?


----------



## CL810

Troy, if you decide to cut the 4" in half I'd hide the seam by laminating it to the inside (bench side) of the chop. Wasn't sure if that is what you meant by laminating them to the back or not. If you cover the face of the chop with suede/leather no one will ever see the seam. From a structural standpoint I don't think it really matters which side you laminate the 1" piece to.


----------



## Iguana

Those dovetails look good, Troy. You do seem to be flying through this; you putting in 20-hour days?

I think I recall The Schwarz saying a bench should be a 40 hour project. Not sure I believe him, think mine was double that (or more). Maybe if you have half a dozen under your belt…

I ended up laminating 2 boards for my chop. I put the thin board on the inside - I.e. facing the leg. Somewhere in the hardware install docs, Benchcrafted recommends the thick board be on the outside.

Unless you are looking for it, the lamination is barely noticeable. And mine was two boards of somewhat different color. If you make yours from the same board, only you will know.

And as Clayton said, resaw the 4" cutoff and make a laminated board for the inside piece. With a good glueup, you'll never notice the small bit of glueline visible at the top of the chop.


----------



## Bigun

Ok guys, little help please. I test cut a piece of the milled lumber for the legs to go into the angled mortise and its loose side to side. I laid them out with a piece of the milled leg board to get the spacing on the square mortise. I then used a square to bring the line across the other boards of the top and used this line to space the angled boards. I've double checked and they are still line up. I made sure the test board was cut without touching the corner so I wasn't taking anything away fron the width.
So where I'm at as of now, I've riped another board, planed to thickness and used a caliper to set the width at the widest corner. I transferred this to the boards and ripped them to width.
Now this board is slightly wider than the other leg boards and I'm wondering how this can be fixed? My thinking is to take a flush trim router bit and and start just below the angle cuts and square it up to bench bottom after legs are installed.
I would cut the other boards to match and cut down the rear tenon but I've already milled the lumber for the legs to the same dimensions as the top while milling the top. 
Only talking about a difference of 1/8" at the most, 16th on either side, maybe a hair more, didn't measure it.


----------



## Bigun

Mark, I've got to take a closer look at the board for the chop. It's got a bark inclusion that comes in a little on one side but I'll do some measuring before I cut it to make sure it's gonna work. Of course this just might be an excuse to take a trip to the hardwood lumber store.
I've got some Curley white oak I've bought some years ago that would look really nice but had rather use the black walnut since I've made the end cap already. 
Maybe I could use the oak on the front, 4/4" and the solid walnut towards the bench. Maybe inlay some of the walnut in the oak in some type of pattern. Have to think about that.


----------



## john2005

Not sure I'm following you Troy. Is the tenon loose? If so just wedge it. Should be done anyway for mechanical hold. Or are you talking the boards for the leg assy are not the same dimension? Just not sure I understood what you got goin there.


----------



## Bigun

> Not sure I m following you Troy. Is the tenon loose? If so just wedge it. Should be done anyway for mechanical hold. Or are you talking the boards for the leg assy are not the same dimension? Just not sure I understood what you got goin there.
> 
> - john2005


Yes tenon is loose but it's the front one that's angled and opened so a wedge would show..
I did figure it out and the width of the front board after glue up is centered with only about 1/32 on each side wider than the boards behind.


----------



## Bigun

In case anyone is interested, This is the set up that I come up with to cut the angle on the front leg tenon. I used 22-1/2 degree angle for this and cut a couple of wedges on the miter saw, double sided taped then to bandsaw table and aligned the fence so the cut would come just to the corner of the board.


----------



## Buckethead

That's clever, Troy. I did mine by hand, and it nearly caused me to give up.


----------



## Bigun

It took me longer to set it up than cut them.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Interesting way to get it done Troy. I cut my leg dovetails on the tablesaw back when, but I think I'd be confident enough to do them by hand now

I don't have an other solution for the gap other than a shim. If you have the scrap you cut off for the dovetail, it'll match and you'll barely be able to tell. There's a couple little shims on mine.

Another thing. I understand wanting the aesthetic of the wedges…but I've come to appreciate wedge tenons because they tighten up loose tenons. I find I don't have to fuss with the fitting of the tenon as much.


----------



## JeffP

So, I just made it through the first 1000 posts on this thread. Really enjoying all of the workbench porn.

I have some questions though. First, those of you who build these works of art that you call a workbench…do you actually use them, or do you keep them in the corner of the shop with a protective cloth over them?

Second, what's the reason that all of these are "free-standing"? I have always built my work benches onto a wall. In the past I have built about 5 of them that way. Many people have benefited more than me since I keep moving and leaving them behind. Other than that, I can't see any good reason to make them free standing.

Before this next paragraph let me say that this thread seems to be filled with good natured "one ups-manship" and bragging. If I've mis-understood the tone of the thread, please forgive the well-intentioned hubris to follow.

Yours all look quite heavy, but they are absolute featherweights compared to mine. The one I started on today weighs several tons…because it is very firmly "attached" to the wall of my crappy old shop building. Mine is not worthy of a picture, but a couple of elephants could "knock boots" on the thing and not even budge it. Seems to me like a free-standing one looks nice, but it might try to move around on you during bouts of "spirited" woodworking.

For assembly and glue-ups, I would prefer a small free-standing table that I can easily walk around and get to all sides of. That need not be heavy-duty.

Oh, and as long as I have already committed the sin of claiming to have the heaviest workbench, let me also say that mine is taller than even those here who claim to prefer a "tall" workbench. The top of mine sits at 43". I'm going to build in a sliding "lower deck" that I can pull out to put large pieces on when I'm working on them. If I need to smack something hard, it will have to be on the main top part…but the lower deck will serve well for anything else that needs to be "on the down low".


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Doh.


----------



## Buckethead

Mine's for show. Sometimes I like to do poses on it.










I think an elephant could probably stand on it, if the elephant in question had really good balance. It's doubtful that a pair of elephant could manage multiple pelvic thrusts whilst mounted atop the bench. (SWIDT?) Not something I've contemplated before, but a possibility worthy of consideration.


----------



## Buckethead

FTFY bucket


----------



## Buckethead

Sheesh ios


----------



## merrill77

> Second, what s the reason that all of these are "free-standing"? I have always built my work benches onto a wall. In the past I have built about 5 of them that way. Many people have benefited more than me since I keep moving and leaving them behind. Other than that, I can t see any good reason to make them free standing.


My bench is free-standing so I can work from any side. I have different vices on different sides of the bench. This also allows me to clamp down a workpiece and work it from both sides without repositioning. I don't have enough room for the luxury of a separate assembly table.

My 24×72" bench doesn't budge a bit under heavy planing…it weighs in at 435 lbs, by my last calculation. In fact, I *can't* move it, even with my feet against the wall. Well, maybe if I got down at the right angle I could budge it. But it is exactly as immobile as I need it to be. I can still slide it around if I remove the 26 clamps, 19 drawers of tools and various planes that the bench stores.

Mine isn't as pretty as much of what you see posted here, but I do try to take care of it. I don't particularly want to build another. Or re-flatten the top. But that is typical for me - I treat all my tools like family. Better, depending on who you ask


----------



## CL810

> So, I just made it through the first 1000 posts on this thread. Really enjoying all of the workbench porn.
> 
> I have some questions though.
> 
> - JeffP


Sorry Jeff, there are no "advance to end of thread" cards in this "game." Go back to post 1001 and don't come back until you've read them all. :-o


----------



## kiefer

Hi Guys
Here is a updated version of the knee vise I posted about a month ago with a auto quick release and it turned out to be a nice and very easy to build ,operate and inexpensive vise .









It would be a easy vise to fit on any bench and to add some bling would be a piece of cake but the cost is only about $50.00 in material as you see it.
I posted it as a project with a video link also and I hope you take a look .
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/116121
Comments good or not are always welcome .

Klaus


----------



## john2005

> So, I just made it through the first 1000 posts on this thread. Really enjoying all of the workbench porn.
> 
> I have some questions though.
> 
> - JeffP
> 
> Sorry Jeff, there are no "advance to end of thread" cards in this "game." Go back to post 1001 and don t come back until you ve read them all. :-o
> 
> - CL810


+1


----------



## Airframer

> I have some questions though. First, those of you who build these works of art that you call a workbench…do you actually use them, or do you keep them in the corner of the shop with a protective cloth over them?
> 
> - JeffP


I prefer to use a protective coating of project spew to keep my unused work of art safe..


----------



## DanKrager

I learned early on that it is much easier to walk around to the other side of the bench to perform a small task on a large project than it is to turn the project again and again. Makes clamping and inspection easier with less chance of damage. A free standing bench is no less rigid than one attached to the walls in most cases. Mine is attached to the floor as part of the light weight portability of the design.

You have no doubt encountered a comment several times on this thread about how personal a workbench is. Workbenches are intensely personal because they are built to accommodate a work style which in turn is determined by the kind of work being done. The biggest dilemma for a beginner is what type of bench to build…he doesn't know what will be useful for his type of work…maybe doesn't have a "type of work" yet.

IMHO the hallmark of any good tool is it's versatility in as many situations as it can possibly accommodate. 
DanK


----------



## ssnvet

> IMHO the hallmark of any good tool is it s versatility in as many situations as it can possibly accommodate.
> - Dan Krager


*
Amen to that !!*


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> So, I just made it through the first 1000 posts on this thread. Really enjoying all of the workbench porn.
> 
> I have some questions though.
> 
> - JeffP
> 
> Sorry Jeff, there are no "advance to end of thread" cards in this "game." Go back to post 1001 and don t come back until you ve read them all. :-o
> 
> - CL810
> 
> +1
> 
> - john2005


+1, Again.

Interested to learn which contributors offer protest to 'work of art' benches. Mine doesn't qualify… ;-)


----------



## CL810

Somebody has some explaining to do….

Took the protective tarp off my bench to admire it and found this! Nicks, gouges, shellac and poly drippings, black slime from who knows what. Oh the inhumanity of it all.


----------



## Buckethead

That's them shop elves.

They don't take kindly to highfalutin bench snobs.

Once the get into your shop, bench beware.


----------



## bandit571

About like mine









Strange contraptions show up, as well. A Tap and wrench? 









Might be that this is a working bench….


----------



## bandit571

I don't know…..should I at least run a plane along the top of the bench…..some day?


----------



## CL810

Well, maybe, some day….


----------



## Buckethead

I'm thinking our resident hand plane gurus keep a piece of poplar on hand for photo ops.

But then again. I finally have nearly properly sharpened irons. It does make a world of difference.


----------



## Bigun

So the bench got some legs today. Decided on 36" for the hight and was thinking about 4" off floor for the bottom stretcher. Does that look proportioned right?


----------



## CL810

Looks good Troy. Have you done the vise and Criss cross install yet?


----------



## duckmilk

> I prefer to use a protective coating of project spew to keep my unused work of art safe..
> 
> - Airframer


Sig line worthy


----------



## Bigun

No, not yet. Just wanted to fit the leg tenons to see how they would fit. Even though they did go in by hand they're gone be rough pulling them back out. 
Before laying out the mortises though I need to clean up the sides of the legs just need to stay below the tenons.


----------



## duckmilk

Troy, enjoying watching your progress. Keep up the pictures. When You're done, beat on it, chop on it, saw on it, enjoy it. Someday maybe, it'll look like Bandit's


----------



## VeritasInnovations

I just started building my first real woodworking bench ever. Its about half finished but its flat, square, and the vices work and that was good enough to burn out a few customer orders!


----------



## CL810

VI, looks good. Half done? What else ya gotta do?


----------



## JayT

> So the bench got some legs today. Decided on 36" for the hight and was thinking about 4" off floor for the bottom stretcher. Does that look proportioned right?
> 
> - Troy Cleckler


Bench is looking good, Troy. Unless you are absolutely certain the bench will be the best height for you to work on, I would suggest raising the stretcher an inch or two. That way, if you decide later on that a 34 or 35 inch bench would be more comfortable, you can cut the bottom of the legs to lower it and the stretcher doesn't become too low.


----------



## Buckethead

JayT speaks wisdom! I need to cut my bench down. The stretcher allows for it, but I need to take the time and do it. Mine is at 34" but I'm a lofty 5'6". I've long known that 30" is my ideal saw horse height, but building at 34" seemed comfortable, and a compromise for joinery work, when I built. More serious thickness planing has shown me that it is not comfortable to do prolonged planing at this height. I need to bring it down a notch.


----------



## merrill77

@Buckethead - Would you like me to find you a box?

Since I do heavy planing infrequently compared to all the other things I use my bench for, I opted for the taller bench and built a 4" platform to stand on for heavy planing. Raising and lowering myself turns out to be much easier than raising and lowering a workbench  The platform sits behind my DP when not in use. That has worked well for me. Perhaps not as workable if you need it frequently, though.


----------



## Bigun

At 6'-2" a hight of 36" is where my hands sits flat, standing up straight. my table saw is at 34" and it seems low for me as a bench. But Jay your right if I move it up a couple more inches it wouldn't hurt, wouldn't look bad and the capibalities of change would be there.


----------



## john2005

> So the bench got some legs today. Decided on 36" for the hight and was thinking about 4" off floor for the bottom stretcher. Does that look proportioned right?
> 
> - Troy Cleckler
> 
> Bench is looking good, Troy. Unless you are absolutely certain the bench will be the best height for you to work on, I would suggest raising the stretcher an inch or two. That way, if you decide later on that a 34 or 35 inch bench would be more comfortable, you can cut the bottom of the legs to lower it and the stretcher doesn t become too low.
> 
> - JayT


JayT speaks wisdom. I also built mine with a disposable inch at the bottom but have yet to need to take it. But it's there if I want it someday.

And for what it's worth, I'm 6'3" and the bench is 35 1/2. I should tell you the only time I think it should be shorter is when I have a lot to plane.

Ps, bench is rockin along


----------



## Buckethead

You hurt me, Chris. You hurt me bad.


----------



## Slyy

Troy I cant add much to theadvice so far (anything actually) but the build is looking great. My bench build has only been finding out who has the cheapest prices on SYP or Fir around me.

VI, great looking doubke sided bench! Like the idea of just working around it.


----------



## Iguana

> No, not yet. Just wanted to fit the leg tenons to see how they would fit. Even though they did go in by hand they re gone be rough pulling them back out.
> - Troy Cleckler


That's about a perfect fit. Good job!

Like the plywood walls in your shop. Very useful.


----------



## Buckethead

I must say, Troy's build has been very impressive.

VeritasInnovations has a beautiful bench too. I'd love to read more and see any in progress shots as well.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Happy new year everyone!

A lot of great looking benches since the last time I was here. Some really great and inspiring craftsmanship. I thought I'd post a couple progress pics since I've had some time in the shop recently. I'll admit I've been a little intimidated with gluing up these pine beams. I decided to just go for it as I get each one prepped:










It's not clear from the picture but the glue joint turned out way better than I anticipated. That is to say, it's almost perfect.

I spent some time flattening (ish) the glued beams and getting ready to start planing the next beam.










There are 4 timbers in all which should bring my finished width somewhere around 22-24 inches. It's going to finish out somewhere around 6 feet long and about 4 - 4.5 inches thick.

There's a lot of planing involved here. By the end of it, the right side of my body is going to be pretty swole.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ That is some SERIOUS bench building! Very nice, Billy! Keep the pictures coming.


----------



## DanKrager

Ninja's kicking butt! STEFF…you paying atten…?? Never mind.

DanK


----------



## Bigun

Ok guys, another question about the stretchers. I've cleaned the glue joints by running them over the jointer and stopped just short of the tenons. By the way, if you turn on the dust collector make sure the gate to machine you are working on is opened. Heard somewhere things get stopped up pretty quick and you have to stop and take the cover off and unclog machine, so I've heard! ;-)
Anyway, got the legs back in bench, man that's beginning to be a workout, measured to get lengths of streachers
To the question. The streacher on the front I know needs to be even with the outside of the legs but what about the sides, lower and upper? Do they need to be even with the outside or centered or does it really matter?
The legs are 4-1/4" and was planning on a double glue up for streachers which is about 2-3/4".


----------



## CL810

All of mine are flush. The back stretcher you want flush because you may want to use it for clamping like the front. The sides may not matter. But…

The placement of the side stretcher tenon and corresponding mortise on the leg you mount the leg vise to is critical. Have you worked that out yet?


----------



## Bigun

> All of mine are flush. The back stretcher you want flush because you may want to use it for clamping like the front. The sides may not matter. But…
> 
> The placement of the side stretcher tenon and corresponding mortise on the leg you mount the leg vise to is critical. Have you worked that out yet?
> 
> - CL810


I'm assuming that the screw will go just below the top streacher. Isn't that right?


----------



## Buckethead

Mine got centered. It wasn't due to excessive planning. ;-)

I improvised my dead man to work with the centered stretcher.


----------



## Slyy

Ninja! Nice seeing ya bud. Those are some SERIOUS beams going into that thing. Get Some!!


----------



## CL810

Referencing the leg that the leg vise will be mounted to: The mortises on the leg for the stretchers' tenons cannot interfere with the mortise for the criss cross. If you've already made the tenons on the side stretchers then they may or may not be flush.


----------



## Buckethead

Excellent point, Cl810. Good lookinG out.


----------



## Bigun

> Referencing the leg that the leg vise will be mounted to: The mortises on the leg for the stretchers tenons cannot interfere with the mortise for the criss cross. If you ex already made the tenons on the side stretchers then they may or may not be flush.
> 
> - CL810


Using the criss cross retro, if that' makes a difference but the legs are 4-1/4" and was only thinking about going in about half way for the streacher tenon and using draw bore method. Thinking the criss cross mortise wouldn't come close to half way into leg. And still it would start below the screw which is below the streacher. 
Am I way off or still missing something?


----------



## CL810

Troy there are so many variables here… Benchcrafted's plans don't show an option for draw boring. Have you looked at the retro plans regarding the mortise locations?


----------



## ToddJB

Hey Ninja! Long time, brother. That's a beast of a top. You might need to waller out the bottom of your dog holes with that thick of a top, but the beastly appearance will make it worth it.


----------



## Bigun

> Troy there are so many variables here… Benchcrafted s plans don t show an option for draw boring. Have you looked at the retro plans regarding the mortise locations?
> 
> - CL810


The plans I'm working off of is by SHINGSHOP and I'm only using them for reference and not measured plans. He's using the chain tension method and homemade screw for vise, he don't use through tenons for the legs either and his is a solid top.
I'll look at the crisscross instructions again though. Thus trying to think it through before I start beating holes in stuff!
As far as the draw bore method, can't that be used in any configuration? If I understand it correctly, it's just pinning the mortise and tenon together.


----------



## CL810

You'll see what I'm talking about when you look at BC's plans.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Thanks everyone and it's nice seeing you all, too. Making slow but steady progress since I've been able to get back into the shop. These pine beams have some pretty decent heft to them individually. I think the two I've got glued up now weigh about as much as the crappy bench they're sitting on.

I hadn't thought about that, Todd. Good call, thanks.


----------



## Bigun

> You ll see what I m talking about when you look at BC s plans.
> 
> - CL810


yeah, i did over coffee this morning. I'll get some measurments and see but I'm thinking that at 36" top and I come down below side streacher with the wooden nut block that'll give me 9" of space above the nut to bench top. and still give me the needed 19" for the criss cross. I'll lay it out using the pattern from benchcrafted and see.
Thanks for the help. I'm sure i'll be leaning on you some more.


----------



## ssnvet

Could somebody with a Benchcrafted face vise hardware set up please tell me what the O.D. of the ACME lead screw is?

Thanks


----------



## Bigun

Ok CL810, now I see what you're talking about. The leg is 4", crisscross mortise is 1-7/16", if I have a 3" streacher and cut a tenon, close towards the inside, that's 1-1/4" that would keep the tenon just behind the crisscross mortise. Would that be a viable option? And if so, what would be the strongest way to attach it? Glue and pins or what? This is the front streacher, the side streacher I don't think would be an issue because of the thickness of the leg.


----------



## CL810

Troy, I don't think there is room for a typical draw bored tenon. I followed the layout shown on the last page of BC's instructions. I assumed the reason they don't have a mortise behind the criss cross' mortise is because of the pressure from the criss cross.


----------



## Bigun

I guess my thinking was, it's a retro for existing benches and if that were the case, the tenons would already be in there. But I guess since I've got the chance I may as well do it like they suggest.


----------



## CL810

That's a good point Troy. You might want to call BC and see what they say.


----------



## Iguana

> Mine got centered. It wasn t due to excessive planning. ;-) I improvised my dead man to work with the centered stretcher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Buckethead


I hadn't noticed before how you attached your deadman. Nice detail, Bucket.


----------



## Iguana

> Ok CL810, now I see what you re talking about. The leg is 4", crisscross mortise is 1-7/16", if I have a 3" streacher and cut a tenon, close towards the inside, that s 1-1/4" that would keep the tenon just behind the crisscross mortise. Would that be a viable option? And if so, what would be the strongest way to attach it? Glue and pins or what? This is the front streacher, the side streacher I don t think would be an issue because of the thickness of the leg.
> 
> - Troy Cleckler


Troy, fitting in all three mortises into the same spot on the leg is an interesting problem 

I have a couple of suggestions -

1) Glue an extra board to the back of that leg. Gives you an extra 1 1/2" of thickness to work with, should then be pretty straightforward

2) The BC split top plans call for the front and back stretchers to be bolted to the legs, while the side stretchers are glued. If you took this route, you could put the bolt hole through the M/T of the side stretcher. The M/T for the bolted stretchers doesn't need to be 3" deep, 1" or so would probably be sufficient.

3) As you mention, set the side stretcher to the outside of the leg and the front stretcher to the back. You'd need to make the M/Ts about 2" deep for it all to fit and leave some wood between all the mortises.

4) Use a lapped dovetail at the back of the leg to join the front stretcher. Sets the joinery as far back as possible, easily clears the CC mortise.


----------



## splatman

> As far as the draw bore method, can t that be used in any configuration? If I understand it correctly, it s just pinning the mortise and tenon together.
> 
> - Troy Cleckler


In a drawbored M/T joint, the hole in the mortise member is set slightly farther back than the hole in the tenon, so the pin pulls the tenon tightly into the mortise.
The Wood Whisperer has an article on the subject.


----------



## Bigun

BC's instructions are for new construction, even for the retro. Wondering still about a retro fit that has the mortise already in place. I'm going to try and talk to then today and get there opinion.
Thanks for the suggestions. Will have to mull it over and get it figured out.


----------



## Bigun

Ok, so I thought about it some more and figured BC have a reason to post the instructions the way they do so I'll follow there suggestion. 
Layed out the leg mortise and used the mortise machine on this one. A little bummed out though. Checked the length of the chop against the leg and crisis cross measurments and it's too short by about 4" :-(
Guess I'll try and get creative and use some SYP and inlay some black walnut.


----------



## CL810

Bummer about the chop Troy.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> - Troy Cleckler


Good Lord. My mortise machine is me and a 12mm Narex. I might dig out that hole for my crisscross by Mothers Day 2016.

Thanks for the photos, I understand how it goes in much better. Sorry your chop came up a little short.


----------



## Bigun

> Good Lord. My mortise machine is me and a 12mm Narex. I might dig out that hole for my crisscross by Mothers Day 2016.
> 
> Thanks for the photos, I understand how it goes in much better. Sorry your chop came up a little short.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Yeah Travis, I had intentions of using mostly hand tools to build the bench but after laying this one out changed my mind.
The end cap is the first mortise I've chopped by hand and it wasn't real pretty but it's hidden. This one needed to look better and the fact that I've got to do it all again in the chop, when I find one that is.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Troy, you could hog a lot of the waste on something like that with a forstner bit. Then go to a mortising machine for the perimeter.


----------



## terryR

Heck, mail the next chop to me…for some reason I love hammering out mortises? Don't understand why?

Maybe a 2" Forstner bit, at least…


----------



## jmartel

I'd probably get it close with a router and then go around the perimeter with a 1"+ chisel.


----------



## ssnvet

> Good Lord. My mortise machine is me and a 12mm Narex. I might dig out that hole for my crisscross by Mothers Day 2016.


This is timber framing size joinery :^o

Big Forstner bits are your friend…


----------



## RPhillips

I did mine with a forstner and a 1" chisel…


----------



## theoldfart

14" brace and a chisel worked for me just fine.


----------



## ssnvet

Oops. Wrong forum


----------



## Bigun

I mounted the screw in the lathe and turned another groove right behind the head. I'm thinking this would allow me to use a wooden, two piece plate, for the screw to pull the chop. Am I understanding this correctly? Is the groove deep enough?


----------



## CL810

Hard to tell how deep it is but it doesn't need to be much, it just needs to catch all of the garter solidly.

Troy, when do you kick back and relax?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yes, and I think it is.

Looks great, BTW. You're doing great work, Troy.


----------



## Iguana

Troy,

That screw looks like it already had a groove cut into it for a garter. If theres some reason you need to change the location, make the new groove at least as deep.as the old one.


----------



## donwilwol

I'm with Mark. I'd go a hair deeper.


----------



## Bigun

Yes Mark, it does have a Gardner grove but it's recessed too deep. Using the existing one, I would have had to used some type of side mortise with inserted garter. I want to do some type of decorative garter on the top of chop.

By the way, do you guys agree that mineral spirits is the best option to scrub down the screw to clean it? Wasn't sure what wood it is until I cut into it. It's oak.


----------



## Buckethead

No advice there… But again… Troy is coming in with August/Red/Airframer type productivity. Just blazing through this bench build, and with style.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Well, got another beam glued up. I don't think this joint is going to turn out as nice as the previous one. This beam had a lot of knots all over it as did the edge of the one it's mated to. I had to bring everything inside last night to warm up and did the glue up this morning. It's 19 or so degrees outside, according to the wife.



















The kids and I cleaned up the glue, hence no squeeze out in the pictures. Looks like I'm going to end up with a somewhere around 5'8" in length (the offset beam is intentional). I'm not looking forward to moving this back out to my shop to get the edge planed for the final beam…only to move it back into the house to glue it up.


----------



## woodcox

Nice billy, I vote plane in place.


----------



## putty

I agree…plane in place, then burn the shavings.


----------



## RPhillips

yeah, planing in the house shouldn't pose much of a mess. That's what I would do.


----------



## August

> Yes Mark, it does have a Gardner grove but it s recessed too deep. Using the existing one, I would have had to used some type of side mortise with inserted garter. I want to do some type of decorative garter on the top of chop.
> 
> By the way, do you guys agree that mineral spirits is the best option to scrub down the screw to clean it? Wasn t sure what wood it is until I cut into it. It s oak.
> 
> - Troy Cleckler


I use Murphy's oil and use 000steel wool 
And don't deluet 
Scrub and it will come out nice.
I had good luck with that I do a lot of old M1 and I use it to clean the stock of the rifle and works great


----------



## ssnvet

Angie,

Send me one of those prettied up M1s next time :^)


----------



## richardwootton

No joke Augie, an M1 wouldn't even have to be cleaned up for me! I've got a near mint 8mm Mouser, but I'd love an M1.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Great solid top, Billy.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Thanks ColonelTravis. I took the advice of woodcox, putty and rphillips and planed inside while the wife and kids were out for a few hours. Knots are a real pain, especially when there are several of them. I'm having a hard time getting this last beam and the edge of the glue up to mate properly. There are all kinds of knots on and around both surface leaving me with a lot of big undulations. I'm taking a break until I get the kids in bed, then I'll be back to it. I'm just going to have to take my time. No sense rushing this last one only to end up with a poor joint that fails in the near future.


----------



## August

I wish this website will do this justice
But here take a look how clean it is



























Here I took a pic of the pistil grip area and forearm 
And it looks like new?
Matt and Richard
Get off my lawn??!? LOL


----------



## duckmilk

Billy, great work! If there are gaps, would there be a possibility of sawing the glue line, then reglue?

Beautiful work, Auggie. For you,










With original leather holsters.










My dad was in WWII and loved his guns. These are users, by the way, not collections.


----------



## August

Looks like I found a new hero ^ LOL
Nice









All I need now is the springfield LOL
Here the stamp on my carbine?


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Yeah, I could definitely do that if there are gaps after the glue dries. I need to get it closer right now, though. There's one spot in particular where it doesn't meet at all. I can shine a light through to the other side along a 6 inch length in one area. That area sits between a few knots and areas where the grain swirls and rises up(probably due to knots inside the beam). This is the part where I learn patience.


----------



## duckmilk

> All I need now is the springfield LOL
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Have one of those too.



















Smith Corona mfg. Probably the best and most accurate shooting rifle I have.

Yup Billy, I'd be afarid that glueline would eventually separate with use/abuse. I'll be following. Love those beams


----------



## August

^ very jealous love men very nice


----------



## Bigun

Thanks for the suggestions on using fostner bit to hog out the mortise then use mortiser to clean up to the lines. Worked much faster this time. Today I was able to get the chop mortise done and criss cross fitted.


----------



## duckmilk

Troy, great work. Did you get the chop issue figured out, or do you need to find another chunk of wood for it?


----------



## duckmilk

Auggie, or anyone else for that matter, if you come down south for any reason, you can see the rest of them and even fire some rounds. I would love to meet you all if time permitted.


----------



## Bigun

I've decided to use SYP that Im building the bench out of. That's it in the first pic and then under the leg in the second. Gonna use the black walnut to capture the vise screw somehow. Make it big enough to show up good.
Wife says I'm agonizing over this too much. She says "it's just a work bench. Why does it have to look good". She just don't get it but I love her anyway.


----------



## duckmilk

They never get it.

Oops, did I just say that?


----------



## Iguana

Troy,

Reasoning behind 2nd garter groove makes sense. I'd probably have done the same thing.


----------



## Buckethead

Troy… Tell your wife that in every project you undertake, you try to make it sufficiently beautiful as to remind yourself of her.


----------



## RPhillips

> Yeah, I could definitely do that if there are gaps after the glue dries. I need to get it closer right now, though. There s one spot in particular where it doesn t meet at all. I can shine a light through to the other side along a 6 inch length in one area. That area sits between a few knots and areas where the grain swirls and rises up(probably due to knots inside the beam). This is the part where I learn patience.
> 
> - NinjaAssassin


I had similar issues with my bench build. I just did the best I could, taking time go in at all angles to find the direction that resulted with the least amount of tearout. I had several knots to be mindful of too.

Good luck


----------



## August

Duck that's sounds like something that I would love to do
I haven't really played with them.they been lock up.


----------



## Sylvain

Making wide mortises
Look here

start with two narrow ones,...


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Alright, this isn't perfect but I'm confident this will be a decent joint.










This is the back (underside) of the top. That bottom beam had some blue stain fungus which I think is really pretty. Unfortunately, I didn't really pay attention to that when laying out the beams so, sadly, that'll end up not being seen.

Now to figure out how to move this back out to my shop…


----------



## duckmilk

What did you end up with on final width, Billy?


----------



## NinjaAssassin

It looks like I'm going to end up with 22-22.5 inches wide. I think I'll be plenty happy with that.


----------



## August

Billy 
That's nice 
I have 2 12 foot 5×7 hickory that I'm saving 
And 1 7foot
Planning to use that for other half of my workbench
I'm hoping I can get the same measurement as yours nice job men


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Thanks August!


----------



## CL810

> Making wide mortises
> Look here
> 
> start with two narrow ones,...
> 
> - Sylvain


There are a lot of pics worth looking at on that site. Man, some of the benches are inspiring.


----------



## RPhillips

I'm planning to attach my vise using the bread board end as my my bench side chop. It's about 3.5" thick.

Any reason not to do it this way?

My bench










This is the vise I'm using.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I don't see why not Rob. I used the breadboard as the inner jaw on my end vise.


----------



## RPhillips

yeah, all the pics I've seen of one have it with inner and out chops like pictured above.

I guess if they were installing it on a top that's as thick as mine it wouldn't be needed.


----------



## Iguana

Just don't pin the breadboard at the end, kinda defeats the purpose.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Just don t pin the breadboard at the end, kinda defeats the purpose.
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Lost me there. I pinned mine. Well, then I added some bolts.


----------



## RPhillips

the bread board is pinned, but like in Reds pic, i elongated the holes on the outer holes.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mine drops down to accommodate the the vise. Better pic:


----------



## NinjaAssassin

So this is the result of the glue up. It's heavy. Pretty sure this is heavier than me (I'm about 155-160). Tomorrow or Tuesday I'll (hopefully) get this back out to the shop and start working on getting this thing relatively flat and square. Then, it's on to the legs.

(Working surface facing up, back side of bench nearest the camera)


----------



## Airframer

^Boss!


----------



## richardwootton

Plus 1 to that, Eric! You can wrangle that BAMF Billy!


----------



## Iguana

> the bread board is pinned, but like in Reds pic, i elongated the holes on the outer holes.
> 
> - RPhillips


-slaps.the side.of his head-

Sorry guys, brain fart. Of course you did.


----------



## Buckethead

Ninja… I'm thinking a couple floor dollies would fit the bill. (Then again I have several, so I often think of using them).

You could even use a hand truck if you secured some type of dunnage/filler to accommodate for the offset.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Thanks folks. Yeah bucket, I'm going to give my hand truck a shot. I'm pretty sure that'll do the job.


----------



## ssnvet

A discussion about glue ups…. which are pretty central to the woodworking workbench.










Gluing up the 4×4 is not conventional wisdom and may cause some problems, as most 4×4 that I've seen is "box heart" with the center of the tree, called the pith, in the center of the 4×4. This diagram shows the easiest way for a sawyer to dice up a log, and most of the boards come out "flat sawn" and will cup as they dry.










Often I hear the advice that lumber glued up edge to edge (for say a table top) should be alternated… smile, frown, smile, frown… so that the affects of one flat sawn board are somewhat counter acted by its neighbors. But I'm not sure if this holds true for thick, workbench type, laminations, where you are gluing face to face.

Quartersawn boards would be ideal, as the board doesn't cup as it shrinks. But many millers don't want to quartersaw as it is more labor intensive and doesn't produce as high of a BF yield from the log. So QS lumber usually cost more.










Here's another nice graphic to contrast face sawn vs. QS…










After the marketable boards are cut, the square section box heart timber in the middle is often sold off as cant stock. Pallet makers often by cant stock and re-saw it into whatever final thickness board they need.



















I purchased green mixed species eastern dense hardwood 4×4 cants at $0.18/BF for my bench top. But I re-sawed them through the pith and sticked and stacked them to air dry. When I'm ready to prep them for use, I'll attempt to remove most of the material from the pith side. The good news is that this is all heart wood, the bad news is that I'll be getting a fair bit less than 2" thickness out of each board, by the time I have them joined and power planed them.

This was my solution, based on what was economically available to me… but I haven't executed it yet.

I think it would be interesting to hear what considerations and observations other guys have seen and how the results turned out.


----------



## RPhillips

> Mine drops down to accommodate the the vise. Better pic:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


That is exactly what I had in mind. Just dragging my feet on removing the old


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I've reworked my outer jaw a bit, with dogs:

















It bugged me that I had to laminate the breadboard to get the thickness. I've said I'd make a new one with thicker stock….but I got over it.


----------



## CL810

Rob, here's a second vote for doing it that way.


----------



## RPhillips

got the old bread board off… took a bit of effort, but she's off.

Gotta go pick up another board so I can make a face for the front side and a strip for the rear. Wish I could flip my bench for this install, but that's not happening. Thinking about mounting up the vise after a dry fit of the chop, then drilling the chop.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, sometimes ya gotta go up a size in dowel when you remove a breadboard. Then you can drill bigger.


----------



## Buckethead

Cl810… I'm not sure I've given proper respects to your masterpiece of a workbench. If I've already said its beautiful, ah well. It bears repeating.

Red has probably glued up more board feet than half of us combined, so when he talks glue ups, I listen. Thanks for sharing that, red. The diagrams make it possible for even a novice to identify what the sawyer did. Not important until the wood in your project starts moving, then it's a pretty big deal.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> This was my solution, based on what was economically available to me… but I haven t executed it yet.
> 
> I think it would be interesting to hear what considerations and observations other guys have seen and how the results turned out.
> 
> - Mainiac Matt


Matt- with benches, it always comes back to what is available and reasonable in your area. If SYP was all I could get under $2 bd/ft, I would have rolled with it. No gripes.

As far as the sawing and timber direction, I think that's more of an issue if your having one massive slab for a top. If your laminating, most of woods wonky issues will take care of itself. 
Additionaly, if your gonna laminate 8/4 material like I did, plainsawn is better imo….because you get the quartersawn facing up. The majority of wood movement is then vertical on your benchtop….as opposed to across the width of your benchtop.


----------



## Buckethead

Question for the panel:

Don't you just love smacking a holdfast down onto a piece of stock to secure it?

It gets me giddy.


----------



## RPhillips

> Question for the panel:
> 
> Don t you just love smacking a holdfast down onto a piece of stock to secure it?
> 
> It gets me giddy.
> 
> - Buckethead


I wouldn't know, my Gramercy's are still sitting under my bench waiting for a hole…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ The answer is 'Yes.'

It never gets old.


----------



## benchbuilder

Hey Mr. RPhillips, there is a guy on the northside of indy who does lawn mower work but also runs a saw mill, the last time i was there about a year ago, he had a lot of maple, walnut, oak and others for 1.50 to 2.50$ per bf. Just for your imfo. His name is David Welsh, around 60th st. not sure of address, try phone book or google him.


----------



## RPhillips

> Hey Mr. RPhillips, there is a guy on the northside of indy who does lawn mower work but also runs a saw mill, the last time i was there about a year ago, he had a lot of maple, walnut, oak and others for 1.50 to 2.50$ per bf. Just for your imfo. His name is David Welsh, around 60th st. not sure of address, try phone book or google him.
> 
> - benchbuilder


Thanks, I'll have to look into this. I'm right of 56th Street on the West side, near the Raceway.


----------



## DanKrager

RP, come down my way (3 hrs) and get KD S3S FAS domestic species same price range. I've never seen so much in one place. Caveat, have to be here at 7:00 AM on Saturdays only and the warehouse is only open two hours to public.

In other news, can get sawed locally for .20-.25 cents / BF, no KD. 
DanK


----------



## Bigun

Ok, so the forged holdfast that I got on Ebay come in and one was ok and the other had a bent shaft and the neck was twisted to one side so it wouldn't work as is. I could heat it and bend it to shape and make it work maybe but I decided to return them.
I did order the Gramercy ones and like the looks of them better but they won't hold in my bench top. Because I was just trying them in the Dog Holes that I have already drilled and I didn't want to hammer it too much and mess up the holes. My bench is 4" which Gramercy's video says that they are made for 3" tops and if thicker a larger hole needs to be drilled in the bottom so that the 3/4" hole is 3" deep. This makes sence but i was just wandering if anyone has done this using these holdfast? I haven't scuffed them with sandpaper yet like is recomended to help them to hold better.


----------



## Buckethead

Troy, I've got a set of gramercy holdfasts with my benchtop measuring in at 3-3/4" and they have no problem catching. Never sanded them, or wallowed out the underside of the dog holes. They just work. Price is right also.


----------



## ssnvet

And now, for something completely different

Not exactly a Roubo bunch, but it may weigh as much.


----------



## August

^ nice work bud


----------



## CL810

Troy, the legs of my bench are 4.25" deep and my Gramercy holdfasts did not work. I enlarged the backside of the dog hole some and they work fine. Evidently, somewhere between 3.75 and 4.25" they stop working but it' sang easy fix. Do you have an index bit?


----------



## Bigun

> Troy, the legs of my bench are 4.25" deep and my Gramercy holdfasts did not work. I enlarged the backside of the dog hole some and they work fine. Evidently, somewhere between 3.75 and 4.25" they stop working but it sang easy fix. Do you have an index bit?
> 
> - CL810


Don't have an index bit. What I'm thinking of doing is drilling about an inch deep with fostner bit from bottom side then drill the rest with 3/4 bit. Use a clamped backer board on the top of course.
I haven't got the holdfast holes in yet. Just tried it in the dog holes to see. Planning on putting them in the back slab at first anyway.


----------



## CL810

Just checked mine and looks like 1-1/8" should do it.


----------



## Bigun

> Just checked mine and looks like 1-1/8" should do it.
> 
> - CL810


For the recess I'm assuming?

I'm thinking that lets the shaft kick over a little higher up to give it the angle needed for clamping.
The hand made one is about 2" longer and they work and hold tight. I guess Gramercy has made them to fit the majority of the benches out there without modification to the bench.

Read somewhere of those that glue a leather pad to the work face of this clamp. Does the holdfast move forward when you wack it down? I'm thinking it would have to some. Just wondering if this is best or just keep some scraps around. 
Has anyone thought of using a strip of leather to reach the holding foot, with a hole at one end to leave on the shaft? Thinking about an old leather belt maybe.


----------



## bandit571

The leather is a pad to help hold the part, and avoid clamping marks on the parts.

Hold fasts lean BACKWARDS when clamped down. When you release them, you knock them forward.


----------



## CL810

Troy, I wasn't very clear. 1-1/8" diameter of of the hole on the bottom of your bench.


----------



## merrill77

> Has anyone thought of using a strip of leather to reach the holding foot, with a hole at one end to leave on the shaft? Thinking about an old leather belt maybe.


Glued to the holdfast will be MUCH more convenient for you. I promise.

Takes a lot less leather that way, too. I don't see why an old belt wouldn't work. I picked up a bag of offcut scraps somewhere…there is enough in that bag for every clamp in my shop.


----------



## Bigun

oh ok, CL thanks for clairfication.
so Merrill, what glue do you use for leather and how thick of leather or what type?


----------



## merrill77

I think I used a thin layer of epoxy. I have not compared the performance of different thicknesses of leather. I used what I had…which I'd call medium. Considerably thinner than my belts, but not flimsy.


----------



## daddywoofdawg

> Troy… Tell your wife that in every project you undertake, you try to make it sufficiently beautiful as to remind yourself of her.
> 
> - Buckethead


The butter or BS is just dripping off the comment!


----------



## DanKrager

OH NO, Daddywoof, that's called "finish" in our world. It dries out and has to be re-applied now and again… 
DanK


----------



## Buckethead

^^^


----------



## SL77

Wrong thread, sorry.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Come back, SL77! We don't bite.

Well, Stef does, but he's not here much because his bench build is going on year 2…

But I digress.


----------



## ToddJB

And it was even a bench question, too!


----------



## Slyy

> OH NO, Daddywoof, that s called "finish" in our world. It dries out and has to be re-applied now and again…
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Hahaha DK!!!


----------



## RPhillips

*Red*, on your tail vise, did you over size the holes where the shafts penetrate the chop? Looks to be 1" shaft, but was thinking of going with a 1 1/8 hole. Not sure if a tight fit is desirable in this case.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> *Red*, on your tail vise, did you over size the holes where the shafts penetrate the chop? Looks to be 1" shaft, but was thinking of going with a 1 1/8 hole. Not sure if a tight fit is desirable in this case.
> 
> - RPhillips


I did. But you really do want a snug fit if on the outer jaw/chop if possible. It will make it more stable. Less deflection.


----------



## Bigun

I took a couple of days to finish a commission piece and tonight I got back on the bench.
I drilled and tapped the bracket holes for the criss cross. I'm impressed that the threads hold so well. Drilled the screw hole and installed the nut. We'll sort of. It's a snug fit and I just tapped it in. What would be the best wat to attach it other than gluing it in? Think I'll wait till I get the legs in place befor fixing a garter on the chop. Sort of hard to check everything good with the leg not stable. Would a wooden garter work ok or would something like brass be better?


----------



## RPhillips

Thanks, thought about it after posting… I was talking about the inner chop… that needs to not be snug with the action of the vice sliding through and all.


----------



## Iguana

Troy,

Wood garter would work just fine. Make it from a tight-grain hardwood, like hard maple. It will wear, but very slowly. You might want to look at making the groove in your screw a bit wider, 3/8" or so, to ensure there's enough meat in the garter to resist the clamping forces. But brass or bronze also work well, and you could even cover that with a wood veneer.

To hold the nut in place, you could just use a wooden clip.


----------



## Bigun

> Troy,
> 
> Wood garter would work just fine. Make it from a tight-grain hardwood, like hard maple. It will wear, but very slowly. You might want to look at making the groove in your screw a bit wider, 3/8" or so, to ensure there s enough meat in the garter to resist the clamping forces. But brass or bronze also work well, and you could even cover that with a wood veneer.
> 
> To hold the nut in place, you could just use a wooden clip.
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Ok, got to ask. What is a wooden clip?


----------



## CL810

> Would a wooden garter work ok or would something like brass be better?
> 
> - Troy Cleckler


Personal taste.


----------



## Buckethead

Troy… You still there? I imagined you'd be ready to call it done at the rate you've been progressing.

Ready for some more bench photos!


----------



## Iguana

> Ok, got to ask. What is a wooden clip?


Since the nut doesn't need much to keep it in place - all the clamping forces will pull it into the back of the leg, just need to resist the occasional push on the chop that might want to push the nut backwards. Fabricate a piece of wood that will be attached to the leg and partially cover the nut. Use screws so you can detatch the clip and remove the nut.


----------



## Bigun

> Troy… You still there? I imagined you d be ready to call it done at the rate you ve been progressing.
> 
> Ready for some more bench photos!
> 
> - Buckethead


Oh yeah, still here. Long day in the shop but didn't get any pics. I'll take a few tomorrow, gonna try and finish up the streachers mortis and tenons hopefully. 
Spent a while today working on the wooden garter. Messed it up, got hole too large. Didn't want to throw it away so figured out a way to modify it with reassessed washers on the back side. I'll get some pics of that.


----------



## Bigun

Thanks Mark. I'll try something like that.


----------



## benchbuilder

Nice leg vise troy, i like that criss cross, you have done a very nice job of it!


----------



## Bigun

Made some headway on the bench along with a few setbacks too. I had to redesign the garder because I got the hole too large trying to fit it. The fix actually works pretty well.
Miss cut a tenon to the wrong side and a few others mishaps but was able to cover them up. 
getting closer to flipping it over on the legs, been upside down for too long. I didn't want to fully set the leg to top tenons, too hard to get back out. All seems good on dry fit. Plan on glue up of the base tomorrow. 
Good thing these are supposed to last a lifetime, not sure I want to ever build another one. Just glad this one is mine.
Hers a few pics of the progress.


----------



## Bigun




----------



## CL810

Beastly!


----------



## Buckethead

Very macho bench, Troy.


----------



## richardwootton

Lookin' hefty my friend!


----------



## Iguana

Troy, if you do it right, you only need one.

The garter - how much of the wood is engaging in the groove in the screw? Vs. How much of the clamping force will be taken by the washers?


----------



## Bigun

> Troy, if you do it right, you only need one.
> 
> The garter - how much of the wood is engaging in the groove in the screw? Vs. How much of the clamping force will be taken by the washers?
> 
> - Mark Kornell


The hole now is the same size as the through hole in the leg. The clamping force will be on the face of the garter fully supported by the chop. All the washers are for is to pull the chop open.


----------



## Bigun

I'm planning on using a piece of 8/4 walnut for the sliding deadman. 
1. Is that board too thick? Can't resaw it, would have to plane it away.
2. Before I fit the top to legs, I'm assuming now is the right time to cut a grove in the underside of bench top?
3. How deep and wide of a dado does it need to be?
I'll be checking this more today, just wanted to throw it out there and thanks for all the encouragement.


----------



## Buckethead

Troy, I think most guys would say that 8/4 stock is ideal for the deadman. As for the dado, perhaps ye olde thirds rule? So I'm thinking that translates into roughly 5/8ths for the tenon, and a shade bigger for the dado. Of course, use a size that matches the tools you have. I found myself in want of a 5/8 chisel last night, but had 3/4 and 1/2.

I'd give extra length on the tenon, along with extra depth on the dado that the deadman can lift over the lower rail in cases where you may need to remove it. Also means you don't need to build it into the bench. Trial and error becomes a big deal after fitting the legs fully into the bench top.

One other thing I'd recommend: rounding over the top of the tenon of the dead man. Just for smoother sliding. I did not do it to mine, and these things get overlooked when the bench is seeing use. Sometimes mine gets sticky.


----------



## CL810

Troy, 8/4 will be fine with one exception. The maximum thickness when using a 203 is 13/16ths. Lysdexic shows how to accommodate a 203 here.










Here's one in use.


----------



## Bigun

> Troy, 8/4 will be fine with one exception. The maximum thickness when using a 203 is 13/16ths. Lysdexic shows
> 
> Here s one in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - CL810


CL, you lost me on this one. I don't have the 203's. Just plan on using the holdfast in it.


----------



## CL810

LOL - information over load!


----------



## Iguana

Clayton,

Thanks for pointing that out about the 203s. That's one EBay watch I can delete.

However, I can confirm that the Lee Valley equivalent (Surface Clamp) works quite well in an 8/4 dead man.


----------



## RPhillips

> Clayton,
> 
> Thanks for pointing that out about the 203s. That s one EBay watch I can delete.
> 
> However, I can confirm that the Lee Valley equivalent (Surface Clamp) works quite well in an 8/4 dead man.
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Adding one of these to my wish list…

I should have my bench done in the some-what near future, got to wait on warmer weather

*Troy*, nice progress on your bench. Almost there!


----------



## Buckethead

Ya, Mark… I looked at those in lieu of the elusive stanley 203s, but those gals is pricey. I do like the fact that they double as holdfasts for most jobs.


----------



## Bigun

Ok, what kind of a handle am I in?
I had left the leg system clamped and dry fitted till tonight. I pulled it all apart to glue up when I noticed it. I'm not sure if I've got a joint starting to fail or what's happening. These pics are of the bottom side at the leg vise mortise. There is no change before and after the leg is in it, however I've not fully set the leg assembly yet, just the legs by themselves earlier on. 
There is no change that I can see when under clamping preasure. The leg tenons arn't stressing the joint. I think you can see this from the pics. Pics are close ups. You have it just right to see the crack. 
Any thoughts?


----------



## richardwootton

It looks like that part of the lamination didn't get enough glue to it and then there was a change in humidity causing the wood to shrink a bit. I could be totally wrong, and I'd love to hear other opinions.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bummer Troy. Your bench is sure to explode now.

Nah, looks like the pine went wonky on ya. If the lamination separated a bit, you can try working thinned glue in there with a putty knife, compressed air, etc. Then reclamp and try to bring it together. If not, just fill it with glue and sawdust….or whatever. Maybe a shim on the topside. It'll be fine.


----------



## Bigun

> Bummer Troy. Your bench is sure to explode now.
> 
> Nah, if the lamination separated a bit, you can try working thinned glue in there with a putty knife, compressed air, etc. Then reclamp and try to bring it together. If not, just fill it with glue and sawdust….or whatever. Maybe a shim on the topside. It ll be fine.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


The second pic is unclamped the third is clamped as hard as I can clamp it and no change.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

What's the top side look like? If it's tight, I'd have a hard time being too concerned about a seam on the bottom. Otherwise, countersink a 6" lag or two.


----------



## Bigun

> What s the top side look like? If it s tight, I d have a hard time being too concerned about a seam on the bottom. Otherwise, countersink a 6" lag or two.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Not as bad but still there. Hate to put a lag in right at the leg chop. Could counter sink and plug it I guess.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Troy, is your concern the strength, or the aesthetics? I really don't think this will come apart. The other laminations add strength as well. Like I say, I'd get some glue in it, doctor it with a shim, and move forth.


----------



## CL810

Looks like you just need to fill up the gap and forget about it.


----------



## Bigun

Just afraid it might come apart.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Troy, that happened on one of my laminations. Stuffed with epoxy and sawdust, it's as strong as ever.


----------



## DanKrager

After the glue is firmly blown and tamped in, this would be a great opportunity to *practice* a butterfly inlay.
DanK


----------



## richardwootton

Troy, I have gaps like that, only smaller, throughout the pine bench top I laminated together that started to appear as the wood dried further. I have had zero problem with it and have beat the ever living hell out of the bench top. I'd do as already suggested, and glue and throw some glue with a skinny shim in there and call it a day!


----------



## Bigun

Ok, I'll stop obsessing now. Just in my mind, if I were building a project and the joint opened up like that, something bad is wrong. I'll be quite now and get back to assembling.
thanks,


----------



## terryR

About a month ago when my bench was cleaner, I took a close look and found several gaps in the pine lamination as long as my outstretched hand. Mostly on the top. I filled them at the beginning of the build with epoxy and sawdust, or fiberglass resin and acrylic paint (to color the knots), but none in the past 1.5 years.

Still works great. looks fine when covered with tools…










On a small table for my Mom, I couldn't accept gaps, but on a bench…that's different IMO. My OCD is more concerned with the gouges, abrasions, and other errant tool marks!


----------



## terryR

Question for the group…

Planning on a breadboard for my bench to provide support for an end vise install. Is pine stable enough? Or do I need to score hardwood?


----------



## August

terry what is the height from the bench to the top of the barrel nut?


----------



## terryR

^lunch break now…will measure in a few minutes.
what ya building, August?


----------



## August

people in Alabama eat their lunch in their workbench LOL
nothing just want to try something


----------



## Iguana

> people in Alabama eat their lunch in their workbench LOL
> nothing just want to try something
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


*In* their workbench? Even though I'm far from Alabama, I'll have to try that someday before I make the tool chest


----------



## terryR

no, no, no…I was eating lunch in the house just like city people. Shop is across the street, but has no internet. 

August, looks like 0.8". If you need it to 3 decimals places, i'll have to send ya the piece! LOL!


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Had the opportunity to do some work on the bench top tonight.




























I planed away at the top for around an hour. Still have a ways to go. Then it's on to the sides and underside. I get the feeling this is going to take a while.


----------



## August

LOL YOUR FUNNY MAN
So what did you eat?
Ok cool thanks for measurents
What ever happen to that guy that requires all the decimal number?


----------



## woodcox

Good man billy!


----------



## richardwootton

Solid work Billy! Do you have a #6, 7, and/or #8? It looks like you're going to have to hog off a good amount of material on that top and a #6 set for a heavy cut could make slightly quicker work of this job.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Underside? That's dedication.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Richard, I'm using my #7 set to take a heavy cut. It took me a while to get it to what you see in the pictures because some of the beams had bowed as they dried. It's pretty close to being relatively flat-ish.

Smitty, I'm not going to attempt the same degree of "flatness" on the underside as I'm shooting for on the top. But if I don't clean up the bottom to be relatively flat and more or less parallel to the top (I use these terms loosely) then it's going to bug the crap out of me. Then again, that's the current plan. By the time I get the top and sides done, I might decide the only part of the underside that really needs work is where the tenon shoulders for the legs meet.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> ... the only part of the underside that really needs work is where the tenon shoulders for the legs meet.
> 
> - NinjaAssassin


Now you're speaking my language. Either way, it'll be awesome. Love the build, keep up the good work!


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Thanks Smitty.


----------



## Bigun

Thanks a lot Billy. Putting me to shame for complaining about how heavy my tops were to handle as I ran them through the plainer. LOL!!!
That is one chunk of a top. That is going to look awesome. Good work!


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Ha! There should be no shame in your game, Troy. You're doing great work!

And thank you.


----------



## ToddJB

Billy, that's going to look super rad. What is your plan to address the cracks? Cause they give it awesome character, as is.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Thanks Todd. I like the cracks, too. Thought about filling them with epoxy or something so they'd be visible but junk wouldn't get stuck in them. If you or anyone else has thoughts/opinions on that, I'm happy to listen.


----------



## terryR

awesome work, Billy. I hope your wife doesn't mind the mess? 

August, I think we ran off that metal worker…we don't like non woodworkers telling us how to work wood. Well, except for YOU because you've come to the dark side, and actually made stuff with hand tools. LOL.

Edit…I'd use epoxy and black sawdust, Billy. Love the cracks, just don't want your pencil rolling into them all day long.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Thanks Terry. I cleaned up with the shop vac once my arms said "put the plane down…now." The wife doesn't mind so long as I clean up as soon as I'm done. It's the kids' play area so it's kind of a big deal


----------



## merrill77

I filled one or two big cracks in mine with epoxy. Glad I did. Otherwise, would have just filled up with dust, dirt, metal shavings, etc.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Merril and Terry, thanks for the input. I was thinking of using a black tint for the epoxy (pretty sure along the lines of what you're thinking terry).


----------



## terryR

A few questions on breadboard ends…

Getting ready for an end vise, copying this image from Red's bench with a LV screw…










questions: How thick to leave the tongue on the benchtop? 1/3 its thickness? (3.125") Or the rabbets for that matter?

Red, where's the backplate of the vise in this oak? I assume deeper is stronger, but less travel. I've been studying your Blogs, but didn't see this section in parts.

And, why so many pieces in the lamination? Just what you had?

Sorry for the beginner questions, but I gotta know! 

oh yeah, will I get extra credit for chopping the breadboard and end cap by hand? LOL. my bench has never seen a skill saw, and I don't own a router.


----------



## duckmilk

It appears to me that the laminations on the endcap would increase the strength by limiting the chance of a fracture along the grain when applying clamping pressure.


----------



## DanKrager

Terry Downing has inspired me to build a saw bench. So, since it's warm where the computer is, I thought a set of plans would be appropriate. Here's what I'm thinking…what you think?









I plan to make only two, one with a pair of drawers and the other identical except the drawers…maybe later. One drawer is a saw till holding four panel saws, and in the other a brace, Jennings bits, hand drill and brad point set, and a jack plane. Note the heights when stacked. Maybe I'll need some dog holes later, but right now I'm thinking bench hooks for miter sawing and shooting. 
This will work in combination with my tool belt stand. 








Thanks,
DanK
Edit: Here's a thought. Put the Stanley miter saw under the second one. It doesn't really have a workable home now.


----------



## merrill77

I'm not neander enough to build a sawbench for myself. But if I was…I wonder if a drawer that tilts out would be more convenient that one that slides out?


----------



## CL810

Dan, I like it. Straight legs and open middle - nice. Do you think the vertically oriented cross piece will be enough to stabilize the uprights? What'so the joinery for the uprights and base?


----------



## DanKrager

Maybe the top tails should go this way? The force on the top when lifting would be better handled. The legs are already trapped by wedged tenons passing through the leg tenon in the foot…???










DanK


----------



## DanKrager

A tilt drawer is a good idea. I'll see how that might work. I have rather tight clearance already, but it might be made to work with some adjustments… hhhhmmmmm…
DanK


----------



## CL810

+1 for a tilting saw till.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'll try to help Terry. I don't have a ton of rhyme or reason to this stuff at times. I go by my eye and logic…. but here's my thoughts. 
- 1/3 is a good thickness for the tongue. I ended up a tad thinner on this one, but oh well. 
- Yep, the lamination's are just what I had. If I had thicker stock I would have used it. I've kept an eye out for 12/4 white oak to remake this vise, but its all been wonky. When I built this vise, I thought I'd have it on there a year or so til I bought a veritas twin screw, or a quick release. However, it's worked just fine for me, so I've left it. 
- I'm not sure what the "backplate" is. Here's a pic below that might help:









And you don't need a router for the breadboard. You just NEED one of these….lol









Lemme know if there's anything else I can help with.


----------



## terryR

Great stuff, Dan. Build 3 and send me one…LOL.

Thanks, Red. That photo from underneath helped a lot! I think all else I needed was in your Blog? And, in the mail…

Oh yes, I certainly NEED that lovely LN! My lil rabbet block just won't slice it!


----------



## DanKrager

Oh well, that's different, TerryR! I'd do the straight tenon too if I needed the carriage makers plane! And I do want one.
BUT…
the sliding dovetail requires a #444 which is higher on my unreachable totem pole wish list! 
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan,
*"the sliding dovetail requires a #444 which is higher on my unreachable totem pole wish list! "*

Tell me about it 

Terry, you could do this with this








To get this


----------



## terryR

Thanks for any and all advise, guys!
Especially IF it involves buying a new plane.
444? I wish!
Actually, I'd settle for a complete 55! 

...first, a 408, so I can layout some lines…


----------



## terryR

Thanks for any and all advise, guys!
Especially IF it involves buying a new plane.
444? I wish!
Actually, I'd settle for a complete 55! 

...first, a 408, so I can layout some lines…


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, like the tools with tails being down by the dust pan and broom


----------



## Buckethead

I'll say this regarding breadboard vs sliding dovetail(s) for the vise chop. When I see benches with a set of dovetails, I do become a bit envious. I think many actually use a breadboard, and do the front and back plies in dovetails but assemble them last. I really can't see trying to fit some of the configurations I've seen as full length sliding dovetails, although that would be manly indeed.


----------



## DanKrager

+1 ^ That's what BRK is suggesting as a possibility.
DanK


----------



## terryR

Kevin, close at hand, but not allowed in photos, usually. LOL.

still considering a fake sliding DT breadboard. Like Red's ends on the last dining room table. Is there a proper term for that?


----------



## theoldfart

Camouflage maybe?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Terry, one tidbit, always make the breadboard a little proud on the top. You can always plane it flush….but you can't stretch it;-)



> I ll say this regarding breadboard vs sliding dovetail(s) for the vise chop. When I see benches with a set of dovetails, I do become a bit envious. I think many actually use a breadboard, and do the front and back plies in dovetails but assemble them last. I really can t see trying to fit some of the configurations I ve seen as full length sliding dovetails, although that would be manly indeed.
> 
> - Buckethead


Ya bucket, as I was posting on the furniture forum, I make a reclaimed table in that fashion. The condor tails are just in the outer piece. Def the way to do it on a bench imo.


----------



## DanKrager

Thanks for the tips and comments. Here's what I've decided upon until the next great idea comes along. I'm pretty firm that way. Tills are still dust tight when closed, removable by lifting out, Interchangeable, tip out without hinges and will stay put in either position unless there's a "nu-kleer" splosion somewhere close. Done in 1" hedge with 2" tops. Tail orientation changed for vertical stress…these are gonna be heavy.










What could have been is in the background.
DanK


----------



## Bigun

Pinned the tenons with 1/2" oak dowels, routed the slot for the deadman slide, cut the rear slab and managed to wrestle the slabs onto the leg tenons. Finally starting to take the shape of a bench.
Thanks for the help thus far and I'm sure I'll have more questions as I finish.







!http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u154/tcleckler/image.jpg1_zpsgvodcyb6.jpg!


----------



## August

Nice work TerryR
Me too I'm doing a bench upgrade
Trying to make the front side of bench thicker so ican add some dog holes
And sliding dead man
That's for this 








Nice work there Dank
Hopefully you have plans you can give me LOL


----------



## CL810

Nearing the finish line Troy! Looking beastly!!

Auggie never rests.


----------



## DanKrager

It's neat to see a plan come together like that Troy! Thanks for sharing and inspiring.
DanK


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Troy that's looking great. I'm excited for you! Makes me want to leave work and continue with my own build. There's always something fun and exciting to me about seeing a project like this near completion.


----------



## Bigun

I'm assuming the best way to cut the tenons flush is with a hand saw. Thought I'd pick up a flexable pull saw to do that task. Is there a need to put down tape since I'll be planing it anyway?
Also, on the split tops I've seen, the center section is shorter (not as long) than the tops. Any reason for this?


----------



## terryR

+1 on the excitement around a completed bench build! Troy, yours makes my pine look homely…but I'll go for those through DT legs on the next one! Love that shot of your bench with the little table in the background built from screws. The screws and glue joinery is exactly what I'm trying to rid my shop of now.

$20 flush cut saw from the Borg…even cuts DT's in my shop…

Dan, now that I have my glasses on, that looks like a sweet tool for the shop! The storage underneath will certainly add to the mass, but what a great place to store saws! Doh!

Red, thanks for that photo…kinda what I had in mind. Until I broke out pencil and paper (no SketchUp skills here), and drew it. Not an easy build considering my enormous aprons already in place on the bench. Not taking them off!  What I drew this AM at 3:00 during a fit of insomnia, has the back chop flush with my aprons…should be fun! LOL.


----------



## ssnvet

> -Dan Krager


Dan…

I love this little tool belt holder….. can you link the plans?


----------



## DanKrager

Mainiac, I am happy to share plans when they are available. I never did draw this up first, a very rare occasion. I built it to fit right out of my head, no plans drawn or otherwise! I checked all my archives to be sure.
It's exceedingly simple… cut the top ring about two inches smaller circumference than your waist. I made it hollow to put in a plastic waste bag. Lay out four legs, I thought curvy legs are good, but straight taper works fine too. Laid out the second ring and notched it for the legs. Laid out matching notches on the back of the legs (all at once so they match) then glue and screw. The in between short legs were an after thought to hold the tool belt better. 
It's pretty handy working on site. I got fed up with tools all falling out of the belt when I took it off. It sits next to my workbench on a supply cart (making it nearly eye level) with a tool tray of common hand tools used in house repairs, and surprisingly often at the bench, underneath. 
I could draw it up for you if you want to send me your dimensions… 
DanK


----------



## Buckethead

I'm gonna say it. Troy… The pine looks fantastic. You've chosen some really good looking pieces.

Dan, I'm very excited to see your saw benches under way. Prepare to be copied. ;-)


----------



## DanKrager

I'm flattened if you do… I'm pretty excited about it.
DanK


----------



## Buckethead

I don't wanna flatten nobody!


----------



## duckmilk

Way to go Bucket, offending Dan :0

Dan, that design of the tilting drawers/tills will make it much easier to get to things in the back, I like


----------



## theoldfart

How dare you flatten Dan, he's an antique! Should be in a museum.


----------



## duckmilk

The antique museum featuring Dan & Kevin!


----------



## theoldfart

what else?


----------



## duckmilk

Actually, I'm 61 so maybe I should just go back in my cave.


----------



## duckmilk

Troy, that bench is looking really nice, and +1 to flush cut saw.
Wait, is it levitating?


----------



## duckmilk

My bad, that's just the chop I was seeing. But a levitating bench would be easy to move. I'll move on now (embarrased).


----------



## terryR

In honor of Dan being flattened…


















...nasty tearout from the pine using the 62! 4 1/2 to the rescue…took a while, but finally got a few wide and long shavings from the laminations. It's not perfectly flat, but sure looks better!


----------



## donwilwol

some nice images Terry!


----------



## duckmilk

Dang, I thought you were going to just lay out a "few" lines. On the whole top?
Looking sharp Terry


----------



## August

Love the look of souther yellow pine 
Terry next year or so 
Feel free to come to my shop and do that to my bench LOL


----------



## terryR

I got carried away…
Damn, my arms are sore already.


----------



## DanKrager

Man, you did get carried away with flattening, TR. Looks pristine now. Go get a massage…
DanK
(I don't get offended by flattening. The first time I heard that I just about didn't recover from laughing so hard. The person intended to say flattered, but said flattened instead. Who has more fun than people?)


----------



## woodcox




----------



## richardwootton

Woodcox, are you using a pocket knife with your lathe? If so, AWESOME!


----------



## Bigun

Looks much better now that the tenons are flush and planed a little. By the way, a big thanks to whoever suggested putting the wedges in the tenon before hand. I was just going for the look, didn't actually need the holding power and doing it this way it was easy to get them symmetrical. 
Got the center boards sized and glued up. No one responded as to why the center board sections are not as long as the bench. Thinking about cutting it 1" in on either end. What do you think?


----------



## Buckethead

It looks fantastic! I love your bench, Troy. Are you familiar with the bondo pose tradition?


----------



## Bigun

> It looks fantastic! I love your bench, Troy. Are you familiar with the bondo pose tradition?
> 
> - Buckethead


I did read some of the remarks from Marks bench post but wasn't shue what all were talking about.


----------



## Buckethead

Short version:


----------



## Bigun

Man, I just realized that I've missed something. I was going to drill the holdfast holes before putting the top on because I've got to counter bore the bottom for them to hold. Now this is going to be awkward. Probably should drill the larger hole first then the 3/4" hole through from the bottom with a clamped board to prevent blowout?

Also, gonna be working on cutting chop down and getting deadman shaped and installed. About the bottom guide rail, would it be ok to make it out of pine or does it need to be made from hardwood? The pine would blend in better and, thinking about it, seems there isn't going to be that much stress put on it but of corse I don't claim to know much. Just don't want to have to redo it. Is glue enough to hold it? Some have sanded a few sections down a little to put screws in it too. I had rather not if the glue is suffeciant.


----------



## Bigun

> Short version:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Buckethead


That's going to be awkward. I'll look like a beached whale on the bench. Lol!


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Terry, is that the first flattening since you built it? Did you have to take down the top of your leg vise chop a little?

Woodcox, that looks nice.

Troy, man that looks great!


----------



## terryR

Yep, it's the first flattening since completion. Actually, my leg vise chop was still 1/8" proud all this time, so I planed it as well…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Terry, nice work on the bench top!


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Smitty! Gonna blame it on Troy…his pine looks so nice, I want to keep mine as is now. Was trying for the patinated oak look, but it's not oak. Also planning on walnut for breadboard ends so as to copy Troy even more!  Possibly DT's on either end?

? a 3 piece breadboard with DT blocks on either end?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's crazy talk… Markers on workbenches, what's next?

Everyone is prettying up the ends of their bench tops… I feel so… unrefined.

Looks like a good challenge, Terry, but definitely one you can pull of well. And it'll look awesome.


----------



## Bigun

Thanks Terry, I'm flattered, or should I say "flattened"


----------



## woodcox

Wrong thread, oh well, thanks fellers. Yeah rich, I'm reproducing a hickory auger handle and trying to copy all the details. Was wondering they would have used to make the segmented cuts, they look just like knife cuts. If using a sharp blade, make it quick! If the blade cuts too deep it can get away from you, so I've heard.

Solid work Troy!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Troy, my bud ScottyBYo build a bench similar to yours and the middle strip is 'full length.'

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/81012

Other than that, I have no insight / opinion on the finer details of a split-top.


----------



## BubbaIBA

I'm going to mod my French bench to a Cross Chanel bench. Might as well as it has a English QR vise, a wide apron will just complete the job.

I've been thinking about doing it for awhile, running across a 8' X almost 400mm hunk of 8/4 Beech in the wood store sealed the deal.

Here is a photo of the test fit. Once home from work today I will glue, screw, and drill. Should have a working bench by tomorrow.


----------



## CL810

No idea why, but when I cleared my bench top of the spew from most recent project this appeared. The split is contained in one board. Wonder if it's done or there is more splitting to come? Ideas anyone?


----------



## NinjaAssassin

CL810, is it just me or is that crack traversing across grain?


----------



## Buckethead

Maybe drying out in the cold weather? Not looking related to grain, as Billy noted.


----------



## Bigun

> Troy, my bud ScottyBYo build a bench similar to yours and the middle strip is full length.
> 
> http://lumberjocks.com/projects/81012
> 
> Other than that, I have no insight / opinion on the finer details of a split-top.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Got to thinking about it a little more and if it's shorter then when you pull it up to use it in the stop mode then it wouldn't extend past the end of the bench. Shortened the length of the upper streacher width.


----------



## john2005

I too am with Billy on this one. It's not runnin with the grain. How deep? Errant marking knife? Other sharp object? Hard to tell.


----------



## DanKrager

CL810, I don't know for sure that it will stop the crack, but in many situations the cracking can be stopped by drilling holes at the ends. Depending on how confident you are you have the end of the crack and it's sub-surface angle would determine what size hole. Then you can plug and fill, but if it were mine, I'd want to wait a bit to see what the next season brings. You might be able to accelerate that by putting a few drops of water in the crack and hit it with a heat gun to see what happens. 
That's a weird crack. If there's that much stress I would think some other distortions would become noticeable.

DanK


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Well, made a little bit of progress. The edge facing the camera was where I spent the majority of my time.










It was bowed concave and is more or less flat, now. Those knots, though… Does anyone have any advice for dealing with knots? I enjoy the look of them but because they're so dense and they're really just end grain, they're a real challenge when trying to true the surface.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I concur, Clayton has a really weird crack.


----------



## CL810

*LAWL!!!! * No way that crack is getting fixed!


----------



## DanKrager

I wondered who would step on that rat trap first! Well played BRK. 
Hadn't thought about it being just a deep scratch…is that a possibility, CL810?
DanK


----------



## August

cl did your temperature changes drastically ?


----------



## widdle

> Thanks, Smitty! Gonna blame it on Troy…his pine looks so nice, I want to keep mine as is now. Was trying for the patinated oak look, but it s not oak. Also planning on walnut for breadboard ends so as to copy Troy even more!  Possibly DT s on either end?
> 
> ? a 3 piece breadboard with DT blocks on either end?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - terryR


not sure if it's a real factor…But may want to make sure you have enough lumber at the 1/2 pin, for future flattenings…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Excellent point, +1.


----------



## CL810

> cl did your temperature changes drastically ?
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


The temp range in my shop is 50 - 65.


----------



## splatman

I thought Woodcox's turning was going to be a leg vise handle. Lesson learned: Make. Sure. You. Are. Posting to the correct thread. No appropriate thread? Start one.


----------



## August

Well CL I don't know much or I don't know anything about wood.
Was you bench made from a solid slab?

From
Reading and reading LJ post
People always talk about temperature?
Or
Stress?
Not sure 
But no words can discribe that exetp 
That it sucks.


----------



## woodcox

Thanks Splat man. Got.iT. Sorry for the emotional.RoLLeR.coaster….


----------



## john2005

Nice Red

Hey Auggie, get Jeff Millers book "Foundations of Better Woodworking". He covers the issue pretty well, I think. And in a clear and simple way. Now if I could just find the time to read the rest of the book…


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Widdle!

That's exactly why I drew it on with colored pencil first. So I can stare at it and find problems over the next week BEFORE I chop any pine. Yep 1/2 pins way too small.

FWIW, you guys missed the concave benchtop I posted a couple of days ago! The far edge in the photo looked like a smile, and made me double-check my flattening work! Sure enough, about an 1/8" concavity down the center where I tried to clean up the worst tearout. Fixed now. Leg vise re-shaped so I won't hit it with my left hand while planing sloppily at day's end.


----------



## BubbaIBA

Finished my English/Roubo mod or as I like to call it my "Cross Channel Bench".


----------



## Buckethead

Excellent! Any progress pics or details you'd like to add? Also… That bondo pose tho.


----------



## BubbaIBA

Buckethead,

The Bench was finished just less than a year ago….The apron is just a modification I wanted to try as I find both sliding deadman and bench jacks to be minor irritations both in use and when not in use. They are always in the wrong place and/or in the way. Of course as with all things wood: YMMV.

I'm older than dirt so not much chance this old body can climb up and lay on the bench and I'm not rich enough to have a young girlfriend to do it .

ken


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Made good progress today:




























I wheeled the top out to my back patio and set it up on some really terrible metal, adjustable and collapsable saw horses. I cheated and cut the ends with my circular saw so I can no longer claim I built this with only hand tools. When I flipped the top to cut one of the ends from the underside, I made a mistake when I measured and ended up cutting the underside an inch further into the bench than the topside. Basically, I cut an extra inch off of my bench for no good reason. Oh well. It's finished length is 5 feet 6.5 inches.

I spent a good portion of my time flattening and smoothing the top and am satisfied with it. I spent a little bit of time on the underside too. All that's left is to plane the one edge, clean up the other edge, clean up the end grain from the circular saw, and flatten the underside areas where the legs will be. I'd guess another two hours of uninterrupted work and I can move on to the legs.


----------



## Buckethead

WOOT!!!

Billy coming reporting in with serious progress! You can always get a couple more inches with breadboards, if you want.

What's the plan for leg attachment? Stock for the legs?


----------



## August

Nice work ninja
Well trying to make a deadman now
Any thoughts?


----------



## Iguana

Troy,

I would drill through pilot holes from the top, first. This guarantees your holes will line up on the top of the slab, even if you don't drill them all perfectly.

Drill pilots (1/8"), then drill the bottom counterbores, and then the 3/4" holes from the top. For the counterbores, you'll probably use a Forstner bit, and then you can drill the main holes with a regular twist bit. The pilot hole is good for locating and starting a Forstner bit, but the bit can wander off the line if you go deep. A twist bit, however, will follow the pilot hole.

If you get a bit of blowout where the two holes meet, no big deal.

For the guide on the bottom, it is better to use a wood that takes wear well. You can use pine, but over time it will show wear. Hard maple would be a great choice. A pine runner will hold weight well enough, though.

And glue is sufficient, if you can clamp it well.

If you go with pine, you could just use a board that is a bit taller for the front rail and just cut the top of it to an inverted V, no need to glue on an extra strip. If you go with something besides pine, glue a square strip on, then cut the inverted V. Way easier to clamp, and not as fragile.



> Man, I just realized that I ve missed something. I was going to drill the holdfast holes before putting the top on because I ve got to counter bore the bottom for them to hold. Now this is going to be awkward. Probably should drill the larger hole first then the 3/4" hole through from the bottom with a clamped board to prevent blowout?
> 
> Also, gonna be working on cutting chop down and getting deadman shaped and installed. About the bottom guide rail, would it be ok to make it out of pine or does it need to be made from hardwood? The pine would blend in better and, thinking about it, seems there isn t going to be that much stress put on it but of corse I don t claim to know much. Just don t want to have to redo it. Is glue enough to hold it? Some have sanded a few sections down a little to put screws in it too. I had rather not if the glue is suffeciant.
> 
> - Troy Cleckler


----------



## Iguana

August,

You've got a cool chop. Why not make a deadman to match?


----------



## Bigun

Love that top Billy, looking forward the following the build.
Got a lot done myself today. Looked at a lot of leg vise pictures and wanted to come up with a design without coping others, just to be a little different. Also got the deadman installed. Happy I got to use the black walnut for it. This pic doesn't let the grain show but it'll pop with the finish.
Also got the rest of the dog holes and holdfast holes drilled and the center board and spacers glued and finished though it's not as tight fitting as I'd hopped. The slabs were about 3/16" over the length and I tried making up the difference with the spacers but still left a small gap at one end. Not a big deal as it is functional. 
Oh, so close now!


----------



## Bigun

little late mark but thanks. Got it all worked out.


----------



## Buckethead

Everything about your bench looks great, Troy. Love the design elements. Clean, original lines.


----------



## Bigun

thanks buckethead


----------



## Bigun

still looking for advise on a finish, any thoughts


----------



## August

Thanks mark 
But that Danm thing weights 85lbs

Was thinking thou but it will require to much engineering 
I'm done with that stuff 
I want to be more like you guys reall woodworker LOL

Taking about chop 
Troy your chop looks like a model sexy


----------



## BigRedKnothead

August, did you move your plane till under your bench?


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Thanks fellas.

Yeah bucket, I've given breadboards some thought. I'm not decided, yet. I'm not worried about the length of the bench but the ends aren't very pretty right now. I'll probably just shrug my shoulders, say "meh," and get on with it.

I've got a couple red oak beams that were part of the "beam bundle" that I intend to use for the legs. Both oak beams are ~8ft long. One is ~4×5 and the other is ~4×4. One of them has a pretty massive check from on end to the other so I've got a couple things to figure out right now. I've got to buy some lumber for the stretchers so I might end up buying new stock for the legs and use the oak on something else.


----------



## Bigun

Picture on photobucket shows complete bench but it seems to zoom when I try to post.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Troy, your bench is really looking awesome. I love the leg vise chop and the garter.


----------



## August

> August, did you move your plane till under your bench?
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Sir yes sir 
I was re arrange the shop and I keep on bumping to it with my shoulder

Anyway the bench is about to really take a new form..
Will see


----------



## ssnvet

Troy…. Nice lines on the chop.


----------



## Slyy

Troy, really diggin the nearing completion build, ain't nothing wrong with some sexy pine bench. Loving it!!

Ninja great to see that top comming to completion, wish my wife was as comfortable as yours with me planing in the living room!

I'm much more of a lurker to this particular thread, though it is the one that initially drew me to LumberJocks (BigRedKnothead's bench specifically) and not as much a contributor since I have not been actively building a bench and this thread just makes a wonderful resource to read through and to watch other builds unfold.
But I've ways wanted to get started on making a bench!

Totally staged photo op but feel like a bench build is much closer to reality now for me, seriously enjoying reading through the blue book!









14 hours of class this semester is going to be an impediment for sure but I intend to at least plan out and then purchase the lumber for a bench this semester and try and finally get something actually building by the summer!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Whether staged or not, a very nice picture. The book that started the madness for many of us.

If your going with SYP, it would be a good idea to get it bought stickered and stacked….so it can finish drying. Or, haunt CL for other woods.

Btw, it still humbles me when people are imitate or are inspired by any of my goofin around in the shop.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Slyy, she's only comfortable with it because it's out of the way of her and the kids. I've been working on the bench top in the "rec room" which is half kids play area half temporary storage area. If I asked to do all this in the tiny living room we occupy on a regular basis, well…there'd be no progress on the bench top


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice pic, Slyy. Great book, too.

Troy, awesome bench, and I love that shaped Chop. Looks ready to take on anything, you should feel proud.


----------



## CL810

Troy your bench turned out great! A great centerpiece for your shop.

For the finish I used 2 coats of Watco's Danish oil natural on the work surface area and 1 coat everywhere else. You'll read lots about using just oil so the bench isn't slick. The Danish oil is not slick at all IMHO. The varnish component provides better protection for your bench.

Thanks for posting your bench build pics - it's been a blast watching the build.


----------



## terryR

Troy, love your leg vise chop! I would recommend rounding over the top edges a little since I hit my left hand on mine too frequently! ;( Really like your walnut, too, I may copy your build with walnut added to my pine beater?

Also, I've been downloading your photos to help me, and noticed photobucket is re-sizing your images. I think the max width is 600 pixels for photobucket? Here's your bench re-sized…bummer about the lower quality, though.










very nice!


----------



## Bigun

> Troy, love your leg vise chop! I would recommend rounding over the top edges a little since I hit my left hand on mine too frequently! ;( Really like your walnut, too, I may copy your build with walnut added to my pine beater?
> 
> Also, I ve been downloading your photos to help me, and noticed photobucket is re-sizing your images. I think the max width is 600 pixels for photobucket? Here s your bench re-sized…bummer about the lower quality, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> very nice!
> 
> - terryR


Thanks for resizing the pic. and for the nice comments. And I'm not quite finished with the chop. I do plan on tapering the front, outside, edge and I'll knock off the top sides a little more too. I plan on putting a piece of wood, inlayed, in the chop and wood burning my logo and build date info into it. Thought about using leather instead of wood if i can get it to look right, we'll see.


----------



## Bigun

> Troy your bench turned out great! A great centerpiece for your shop.
> 
> For the finish I used 2 coats of Watco s Danish oil natural on the work surface area and 1 coat everywhere else. You ll read lots about using just oil so the bench isn t slick. The Danish oil is not slick at all IMHO. The varnish component provides better protection for your bench.
> 
> Thanks for posting your bench build pics - it s been a blast watching the build.
> 
> - CL810


Thanks for your imput Clayton. I was talking to guy at work about distressing new wood to took aged. He uses white vinager and steel wool, left overnight, to brush on to give it the old, aged look. I might try it out on a piece of scrap pine to see if I like it. New Old style bench that looks old, might just work. 
I'll do a test piece and post for opinions.


----------



## john2005

This is vinegar dressed pine. Soaked 2nights. The longer it sits, the darker it gets. Word of caution, leave it in an open container.

+1 on the Danish finish


----------



## john2005

Never mind, wrong pic. I will post it later.


----------



## john2005

Try this


----------



## Bigun

Thats darker than I'd like. Walnut wouldn't show up next to that. Might try a test with just letting it set overnight. Thanks, for the pic.


----------



## terryR

One tip for that ebonizing solution…use gentle heat, and the steel wool dissolves faster in the vinegar. Usually a few days to 'cook'. Definitely will hide the walnut. 

Would also like to carve my leg vise chop somehow…didn't have the skills when I built it. Inlayed leather would also look sweet…

This was a fun project…8oz leather added to my holdfasts. The little stamp may wear off in time, but it's cool for now, and I like to add bling where I can to make up for beginner joinery knowledge!


----------



## Bigun

> One tip for that ebonizing solution…use gentle heat, and the steel wool dissolves faster in the vinegar. Usually a few days to cook . Definitely will hide the walnut.
> 
> Would also like to carve my leg vise chop somehow…didn t have the skills when I built it. Inlayed leather would also look sweet…
> 
> This was a fun project…8oz leather added to my holdfasts. The little stamp may wear off in time, but it s cool for now, and I like to add bling where I can to make up for beginner joinery knowledge!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - terryR


Those are cool, got to put some on mine too. Where do you get the leather from and I'm guessing that would be too thick for the clamping face of the chop?


----------



## terryR

Troy, I buy leather from Tandy Leather Comp.

that stuff above is 8oz thick, I would use 4-6 oz leather for a chop. An oz is usually 1/64".


----------



## Mosquito

The Tandy's here has bins of scraps. I asked how much and the guy just handed me a small paper bag and said "just fill it up and take it, no charge". Good for stuff like the holdfast pads, but I ended up buying a larger piece for vise chop


----------



## terryR

^yep, every time I order grab bags online, they are dirt cheap. And weigh more than advertised.

Wife and I scraped a deer and goat hide this weekend…hoping to tan next weekend? Leather is just cool stuff!


----------



## bobro

> No idea why, but when I cleared my bench top of the spew from most recent project this appeared. The split is contained in one board. Wonder if it s done or there is more splitting to come? Ideas anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - CL810


Hard for me to see from the picture, but is that a laminate of a number of narrower boards?

It's kind of hard to describe without drawing pictures in real time, but when you have a glue line, and the glue line itself is not coming apart (starved joint, ancient glue. etc), what can happen is that a crack will develop but due to the strength of the glue it cannot follow its natural course. The natural course is of course almost always spelled out in the grain.

When the crack can't follow it's natural course, the stress will be transferred elsewhere and you can get cracks askew to the grain, like yours in the picture.

For example, let's say just one board gets a hair up its butt and wants to crook wildly to the side. Were the boards just lying next to each other, neither glued nor joined, you'd get an elongated crescent gap where a straight board meets the board that's crooking away. But no crack. (In the case of a table top glued up from quartersawn boards, this scenario would technically be initially caused by a bow, not a crook, whatever).

But when the boards are glued to together, the gap can't simply open at the meeting of the boards, so it first appears close to and parallel to the glue line (the glue itself being too strong to break), and from there it will follow the path of least resistance, whatever that might be. In the case of quartersawn lumber which is taken from the edges of boards near the heart of the tree (slicing up 2×12s and turning them on edge), the lumber isn't always strictly quartersawn, so it could well wander off from following next the glue line the whole way down. Or in super-tree wood you can get weak spots in long arches- I've had a kind of long cone of wood flying off the end of a pine board from just crosscutting into the board, with "Borg" pine.

There's another possibility for such a diagonal crack (aside from cracks curving along strong figure, knots, and so on in flatsawn wood). Cross grain construction such as a long cleat on the other side can make such askew cracks, because the energy of the crack is going to be unnaturally restrained and go where it physically can in that case as well. Don't think that's what you have going on though. Unless you screwed your top onto battens and forgot to elongate the holes.

So if you look closely at your crack and see that part of it is close to and parallel to a glue line, then veers off to run along some other feater, like a line between dark and light wood, you probably have that first situation.

If you have something along the lines of a fixed batten underneath, then that's it. Especially if the crack *crosses* glue lines.

Another possibility is: if the crack is within a single board and at either end is next to a glue line, then you have the board itself separating as if you were pulling apart a scarf joint. This would be caused by expansion of the top as a whole combined with an unfortunate weak line in the wood. This is especailly a "Borg wood" possibility.

Sorry to go on, it's much easier to show than to describe.

At any rate, that's the reason why the "really right" way to make a tabletop of multiple boards is more work, with T+G or splines, and without a brutal modern glue (or without any glue at all).

Well, "that's the way I learned" and "from what I've seen over the years", etc, of course.


----------



## August

john love the hammer collection i too love those have to build the same thing on what you did
nice


----------



## DanKrager

BoBro, that's a neat explanation. Makes sense. Thanks for speaking up!

I've not seen this type of split develop in my work, but it may be a statistical thing…not enough work? I edge glue rather narrow boards with no other joinery using a "brutal" glue, a yellow aliphatic. I've used QS and planked and tend to let the QS pieces be wider, like maybe 3 1/2" (for 3/4-1" thickness). I do get really careful about straight grain. Just been lucky I guess. 
DanK


----------



## CL810

> Another possibility is: if the crack is within a single board and at either end is next to a glue line, then you have the board itself separating as if you were pulling apart a scarf joint. This would be caused by expansion of the top as a whole combined with an unfortunate weak line in the wood. This is especailly a "Borg wood" possibility.
> 
> - bobro


I think this fits. I've read your comments several times and it makes the most sense. *Thanks bobro*!


----------



## bobro

No prob, guys.

Dan Krager, especially with clean quartersawn wood you might never get a crack or gap your whole life. Modern glues are great, it's just unfortunate flaws in the wood or a mistake in construction that makes a problem. In the old days houses had more climate variation so they had to over-engineer, I suspect.

CL810, I've got a slab of flatsawn walnut that has a flaw like two opposing wedges, or tectonic plates or something. If you ripped it up and turned the slices on edge to get a quartersawn orientation, it would have a flaw and eventual crack exactly like what you've got pictured. So I think you're right about that being the case here.


----------



## john2005

> Thats darker than I d like. Walnut wouldn t show up next to that. Might try a test with just letting it set overnight. Thanks, for the pic.
> 
> - Troy Cleckler


Darker than I had wanted too, thats why I put it up there for you. One night might just be the ticket though. I had done a test with my first days batch and got a good gray "old" looking color. But I had to push the envelope. Better there than on something that counted though…

Thanks Auggie, I have one more jointers deadblow to build and a bronze chisel hammer. That will take up the empty space.


----------



## CL810

Two thoughts for you Troy. First, your bench is going to delvelop a patina all of its own over time. And second, Danish oil does come in different tints.


----------



## August

Todd
I can't wait to see it 
Something about hammers men
Anyway it's not as a nice as all you guys but I'm trying 
Here is my deadman


----------



## Bigun

> Two thoughts for you Troy. First, your bench is going to delvelop a patina all of its own over time. And second, Danish oil does come in different tints.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - CL810


Thanks Clayton. Give me your thoughts, do I keep it on the light side to have a better contrast between the woods?


----------



## RPhillips

Guess who's drilling dog holes…

< this guy!

Bench is only lacking the Deadman and finish applied!


----------



## Buckethead

YESSSSSS!

I dig that jig!


----------



## Bigun

NO..NO..NO…Rob, you are doing it all wrong. How do you plan on screwing it up with that many gadgits. Just eyeball it and go! My problem is I've got two bad eyeballs. Ha!
JK. Looks good and after the ones I've just done, wishing I had taken time to build a jig like that.


----------



## Bigun

.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

That's smart thinking Rob


----------



## CL810

> Thanks Clayton. Give me your thoughts, do I keep it on the light side to have a better contrast between the woods?
> 
> - Troy Cleckler


Yes


----------



## RPhillips

> NO..NO..NO…Rob, you are doing it all wrong. How do you plan on screwing it up with that many gadgits. Just eyeball it and go! My problem is I ve got two bad eyeballs. Ha!
> JK. Looks good and after the ones I ve just done, wishing I had taken time to build a jig like that.
> 
> - Troy Cleckler


Screwing up?

Like this…


----------



## richardwootton

Rob, did your bench top crack at that third dog hole?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> NO..NO..NO…Rob, you are doing it all wrong. How do you plan on screwing it up with that many gadgits. Just eyeball it and go! My problem is I ve got two bad eyeballs. Ha!
> JK. Looks good and after the ones I ve just done, wishing I had taken time to build a jig like that.
> 
> - Troy Cleckler
> 
> Screwing up?
> 
> Like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RPhillips


Oh, it hurts. Time to learn butterfly inlays;-)


----------



## Slyy

Oi Rob!

I'm with Red, butterfly inlays! Makes me feel that might be a good skill for me to practice….


----------



## RPhillips

No crack, just a third hole in a picture that should only have two. I think that's the pencil line you guys are seeing. But there are plenty of cracks in my bench though they are all filled with black epoxy for now… if/when they start to separate, I'll butterfly them.

Some how I picked an imaginary point to set the bit down on and start drilling. Doh! Guess I'll glue in a dowel and call it lessons learned…


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Or make some sort of jig that uses both holes and pretend like it's a detail that serves a specific purpose.


----------



## DanKrager

RP, that extra hole would be a good place for a logo… Just sayin'
DanK

Edit: or a countersunk medallion…


----------



## bandit571

Almost like the one in this photo?









A W.S. medallion from an old saw.


----------



## RPhillips

that's an idea.. hmmmm. nice, got me thinking.


----------



## Bigun

Man Rob, I hate I opened my big mouth now. Is it on the end that you might be able to turn it into a square hole for a planing stop?


----------



## August

Here's a update on the bench


----------



## DanKrager

Ooooooooooo… .
DanK


----------



## CL810

That's what we're talking 'bout!


----------



## Bigun

That looks good. Like your chop.


----------



## terryR

Yeah, that looks great, August!
You are exactly the expert at bench remodels that I need here!


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Looks great August!


----------



## August

Thanks all 
Thanks billy TerryR
I'll be happy to go down in Alabama


----------



## duckmilk

Nice upgrade there Auggie!


----------



## August

thanks duck
It's been a long working progress 
And it's still not done.
Need more wood


----------



## Mosquito

You know August, when some of us say "long work in progress" we mean months, or years ('Stef), you're pretty quick with the updates! lol


----------



## terryR

+1 to that.
If my wife saw how fast August and Red completed stuff, I'd be in trouble!


----------



## ToddJB

Yeah, but I hear they complete that fast in all areas of their life… so she wouldn't to too impressed.


----------



## August

^ hahaha your a funny man Todd


----------



## Iguana

I gotta put a shout out for Troy. That was about 4 weeks from start to functional. Started on Dec 27, and posts a working bench on Jan 25. Not done yet - we need the bondo - but pretty impressive pace.

Not like, ahem, others…


----------



## RPhillips

I agree Mark, Troy rolled through that like a machine…

August, looking good btw.

Troy, no worries, it was destiny.

Funny thing is that I didn't even get mad, I expected to screw up somewhere. I'm just going to plug it and carry on. Now if I would have dropped some serious coin on the wood, well that may be been a different story. My next bench will be maple with a BC wagon vise installed.


----------



## Aussie

It's interesting to see people whom have recently finished their bench say "on my next bench". )


----------



## Bigun

> I gotta put a shout out for Troy. That was about 4 weeks from start to functional. Started on Dec 27, and posts a working bench on Jan 25. Not done yet - we need the bondo - but pretty impressive pace.
> 
> Not like, ahem, others…
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Oh, man, that's not going to be pretty but it is coming once the bench is fully completed. Working on a couple of details for signature and date in the chop, flatten the top and clean up entire bench for the finish. 
And as far as others talking about their "next bench", more power to them. It's a good thing this bench should last a lifetime because it's the only one I'm going to use.dont think I'm up to doing this again.
As far as blowing through this build, the only reason I've got wifes approval is she's wanting me to get it done so I can get started on out head board and side tables.


----------



## RPhillips

> It s interesting to see people whom have recently finished their bench say "on my next bench". )
> 
> - Aussie


Absolutely, I planned to build another bench when I settled on the wood that I did. It was free, so how could I go wrong!

Not saying that this bench will become firewood, but once I have a nice shop set up it will be replaced with a maple and walnut build. I may use my old bench for a joinery bench or something.


----------



## Bigun

So here is my makers plate signature. I can only hope my chisel skills improve over time. This one is sloppy. So would you fill with glue and dust or would it be feasible to open the gap all way around and put a this strip of walnut?


----------



## DanKrager

An outline would definitely pop it right out of there! As is, the similar colors blend. Even setting it in a dark rectangle and letting that in would add emphasis, IMHO.
DanK


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Troy, that's so cool. I'm totally going to rip you off and so something like this, too.

So, how'd you do this?


----------



## Bigun

> Troy, that s so cool. I m totally going to rip you off and so something like this, too.
> 
> So, how d you do this?
> 
> - NinjaAssassin


Found drawing on internet and just sketched the basic shape with pencil and just freehand wood burned onto the wood. Wanted it to have the hand sketched look.
So I guess I sorta stole the picture too. I just thought it'll be cool to have it in the chop. 
Do a google search for "hand plane art and hand plane drawing" and you'll find several, I just liked this one.


----------



## Bigun

> An outline would definitely pop it right out of there! As is, the similar colors blend. Even setting it in a dark rectangle and letting that in would add emphasis, IMHO.
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


They blend now but they'll show up different when finish is applied. Main issue is what to do with the cracks/spaces that's there.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

> An outline would definitely pop it right out of there! As is, the similar colors blend. Even setting it in a dark rectangle and letting that in would add emphasis, IMHO.
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager
> 
> They blend now but they ll show up different when finish is applied. Main issue is what to do with the cracks/spaces that s there.
> 
> - Troy Cleckler


I like the idea of removing the wood around the insert with a router plane or something and inlaying walnut or some other boldly contrasting wood. Of course you could go with a more subtle contrast, too.


----------



## Bigun

Humm, router plane, haven't thought about that. Don't have one so Billy, you are giving me permission to get one, right. I'll tell the wife and blame the idea on Billy.
This would be an excuse for another tool.


----------



## terryR

Looks great, Troy!
+1 to fitting a walnut border around the DT's.
The dark wood should hide gaps, too.

Hey, don't fret your Bondo pose…we all feel and look goofy sitting on the bench!


----------



## terryR

Looks great, Troy!
+1 to fitting a walnut border around the DT's.
The dark wood should hide gaps, too.

Hey, don't fret your Bondo pose…we all feel and look goofy sitting on the bench!


----------



## Bigun

> Looks great, Troy!
> +1 to fitting a walnut border around the DT s.
> The dark wood should hide gaps, too.
> 
> Hey, don t fret your Bondo pose…we all feel and look goofy sitting on the bench!
> 
> - terryR


Terry, I noticed your profile says N Alabama. Where about's


----------



## NinjaAssassin

> Humm, router plane, haven t thought about that. Don t have one so Billy, you are giving me permission to get one, right. I ll tell the wife and blame the idea on Billy.
> This would be an excuse for another tool.
> 
> - Troy Cleckler


You have my permission, Troy. The general rule of thumb is to blame Billy for anything and everything so long as you can find some link to me, no matter how specious. I think I make a pretty good scapegoat


----------



## AnthonyReed

Billy stole my virginity.


----------



## terryR

Troy, we live in the middle of nowhere. Princeton is the nearest 'town'.

No cell phone signal, water supply is from the nearest cave, but surrounded by mountains and streams! Free-range chickens and guineas, goats and pigs in the 5acre fence. 1870's home is slowly being re-built by me…and will be for sale shortly!  We've had enough of the humidity here, and the lack of college graduates surrounding us…moving to CO this year ( I hope!).

Hence my excuse for a slow bench upgrade!


----------



## NinjaAssassin

> Billy stole my virginity.
> 
> - AnthonyReed


To be fair, you weren't exactly protecting it. You practically gave it to me.


----------



## Buckethead

ZOMG I DINT LOOK GOOFY I LOOKED LIKE A CROSS BETWEEN TYLER DURDEN AND TIM TEBOW I WAS DEAD SEXY


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Troy- just a tidbit for when you do an insert/inlay like that in the future. With a sanding block or chisel, try and taper the inlay so it narrows towards the bottom just slightly- where its gonna insert into the wood. Then mark it with a knife and remove waste. Now when your ready to install the inlay, it will wedge into place….eliminating gaps.


----------



## Bigun

Thanks Red, livin n learning here. Working on this bench build is the first project that I've attempted to do any real amount of hand work on so this has been a real learning experience. And thanks for the tips from all of you guys.


----------



## ToddJB

That's a great tip, Red. Thanks.


----------



## Bigun

I bought a hickory pick handle to turn vise handles. Can someone tell me about how long the handle for wood screw leg vise is normally. I'm thinking about 18-20"??? The wagon vise I'm thinking about 12-14".


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Thanks Red, livin n learning here. Working on this bench build is the first project that I ve attempted to do any real amount of hand work on so this has been a real learning experience. And thanks for the tips from all of you guys.
> 
> - Troy Cleckler


Hey, that's a heckuva lot better than my first attempts. But little tricks like that make all the difference.


----------



## daddywoofdawg

I have a decent workbench now but it's too light for planing and chiseling so I want to build one for the job; the workbench I need to build would be a heavier one,and woodworking vise.How small is too small for a planing,chiseling bench?I have very limited room and In a wheelchair would a 4' one be heavy and stable enough?tail vise the best choice since I'm not planing to go large objects.
I'm thinking a Paul sellers 2×4 style.


----------



## bobro

> I have a decent workbench now but it's too light for planing and chiseling so I want to build one for the job; the workbench I need to build would be a heavier one,and woodworking vise.How small is too small for a planing,chiseling bench?I have very limited room and In a wheelchair would a 4' one be heavy and stable enough?tail vise the best choice since I'm not planing to go large objects.
> I'm thinking a Paul sellers 2×4 style.
> 
> - daddywoofdawg


As I said in the other thread, daddywoofdawg, a small bench needs some kind of extended footprint on the floor.
That's where the current popular styles aren't going to work as well; they're suitable for very big heavy benches.

The bench designs that can be scaled down and still stay rock solid are like this:

http://www.badgerwoodworks.com/2012/05/old-german-workbench/

and this:

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/wMyers/moravianBench/moravianBench-01.asp

Hunkered down and not top heavy.


----------



## Miataguy

> Here s what I just received in the mail:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love these holdfasts! They re the ones made by Gramercy (Tools for Working Wood), and they just work in my bench really well. I used some Jorgensens but they never grabbed right and wouldn t hold anything. The Gramercy on the other hand work perfectly. Of course, they re not as beautiful as a custom-made holdfast with a brass leaf, but still-for the price these can t be beat.
> 
> - Brandon


These work fabulously. I love them!


----------



## DanKrager

The adjustable height workbench I made for SIL does not wiggle nor travel under heavy planing. I put four 4" square SA semi-soft rubber pads with cross ribbed pattern on the bottom. They sit on a painted floor and act like they are stuck there. 
The bench not excessively heavy…I can easily lift one end, so maybe 260 lbs. total?

DanK


----------



## bobro

> The adjustable height workbench I made for SIL does not wiggle nor travel under heavy planing. I put four 4" square SA semi-soft rubber pads with cross ribbed pattern on the bottom. They sit on a painted floor and act like they are stuck there.
> The bench not excessively heavy…I can easily lift one end, so maybe 260 lbs. total?
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


nice- it has footprint. Standing on the ends of four sticks is fine if it's a quarter ton on big legs, but for smaller and lighter benches you need some engineering going.


----------



## Bigun

> Here s what I just received in the mail:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love these holdfasts! They re the ones made by Gramercy (Tools for Working Wood), and they just work in my bench really well. I used some Jorgensens but they never grabbed right and wouldn t hold anything. The Gramercy on the other hand work perfectly. Of course, they re not as beautiful as a custom-made holdfast with a brass leaf, but still-for the price these can t be beat.
> 
> - Brandon
> 
> These work fabulously. I love them!
> 
> - Miataguy


I ordered two for my new bench. They didn't work so well to start with, my tops are 4-1/4", but i counter bored the underside and it works great now. Used them for the first time last night and they hold really well.


----------



## DanKrager

Yesterday was the beginning, and today I finished cutting out and through mortising the feet. Leg blanks are laid out for fitting the tenons tomorrow. This is my jointer. 









The router mill makes this extra fun! I thought about chiseling out these 4 1/2" deep x 1/2" wide mortises… for about 1.2 seconds. 









DanK


----------



## richardwootton

Dan, what kind of wood is that?


----------



## DanKrager

Heavy. Very, very heavy. Osage orange aka hedge. 
DanK


----------



## Bigun

Also known as Mock Orange. Beautiful stuff and very dense. that's gonna look good Dan.


----------



## August

Hey dan save some of those wood ok


----------



## kiefer

Here are a couple of holdfasts I made along with a little different dog hole .
There may be some interest in this as there seems to some issues with forged holdfasts .
Watch the video if you like as it gives a better understanding than I could explain here .

Klaus


----------



## richardwootton

Klaus, you come up with some of the coolest things!


----------



## Iguana

> ZOMG I DINT LOOK GOOFY I LOOKED LIKE A CROSS BETWEEN TYLER DURDEN AND TIM TEBOW I WAS DEAD SEXY
> 
> - Buckethead


Channelling your inner valley girl, Bucket?


----------



## Slyy

> That s a great tip, Red. Thanks.
> 
> - ToddJB


I feel a lot of opportunities were lost here…..


----------



## terryR

Klaus, Thanks for sharing your experiments! Those holdfasts look great, and sure seem to have massive power in the video! Inserting the copper into dog holes is a novel idea. I would imagine the copper would still work well if countersunk 1/16" below the surface? Or does that leave the dog hole unprotected at the very top?

DanK, you're building a bench from Osage? Jeez. Instant heirloom! Should outlast your grandkids easily. Out here in the country, Osage is sometimes used as fencepoles. The old saying goes, "Place a rock on top of the fencepole, and when the rock wears away it's time to replace the Osage"!

makes the best wooden bows!


----------



## kiefer

Thanks Richard 
Appreciate your comment and I amalways happy to share my thoughts.
.
You are welcome Terry.
Yes the holdfasts seem to work well .
The copper pipe insert is already below the bench top surface at the bottom of the bevel of the dog hole and I did this to avoid contact with a tool or work piece and the top of the pipe also has a flare .
I don't think it matters a great deal as long as the rod holds .
Watch the video again and you may pick up on how I did this .

Thanks

Klaus


----------



## DanKrager

Ya, Terry, I got this big pile, see. Gotta use it somehow. Hadn't heard the rock story… cool and very true.

I know well about the fence post. I learned to hammer my thumb trying to drive staples into the old, old posts that my dad said he could account for them being over 100 years old. When he told me that, I wondered for a bit and poked him about being older than he looked. He laughed and said at a much younger age than I was he learned to pound his thumbs the same way I was learning. Great Granddad had planted those posts green when he was a young'n, roughly 14 or 15 Dad reckoned, and Granddad and he had moved them around some when Dad was taking over the farm. Dad was pushing 75 at the time we were working them, retired you know.

That's why I got so wound up when I saw this entire row of ancient giant trees going to the burn pile. The pieces I'm working on today, the legs, are startlingly beautiful…straight, clear, and no cracks yet. You'll see. There is about a 60% waste factor…
DanK


----------



## CL810

Man, I love a good story like that. Thanks Dan.


----------



## terryR

Thanks for sharing, Dan! I also feel the horror when I see a pile of Osage ready for burning…happens all the time here to make room for hay production. of course, hay is worth a fortune around these parts! 

I had a good friend bring me a dozen sticks of firewood from a neighbor who had split some Osage. His neighbor had no idea it was worth more than black walnut, and was shocked to see and hear a turkey call made from the gorgeous stuff!

It's amazing how much of the stuff grows around here, but I never see anything built from it?


----------



## Buckethead

> ZOMG I DINT LOOK GOOFY I LOOKED LIKE A CROSS BETWEEN TYLER DURDEN AND TIM TEBOW I WAS DEAD SEXY
> 
> - Buckethead
> 
> Channelling your inner valley girl, Bucket?
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Mark… Some things are best said in all caps, sans punctuation. It helps set the mood.

Dan… Took me a double take to catch on. You're epic building the forever bench from orange osage (or it's cousin in law) very impressive. Going to be in the all time greats category from the looks of things.

Q: how well does that stuff glue up? Cut/work?


----------



## JayT

> Q: how well does that stuff glue up? Cut/work?
> 
> - Buckethead


I can answer that one. Glues up very well. In some ways it can be a royal PITA to work because of the hardness, density and the many random cracks you find in the wood. In other ways, it works pretty easy. For instance, Osage trees relieve stresses as they grow, so you almost never have an issue with binding or reaction wood like some other species. That is the reason for all the cracks-stress relief.

Keep your tools sharp and it rewards you with a beautiful, glassy surface. It will also force you to sharpen frequently.

Dan, that bench is going to be epic. Totally indestructible and impossible to move, as well.


----------



## DanKrager

Yes, guys, I'm beginning to appreciate its weight already. I got called away to help with some computer networking issues this afternoon, or else I would have some pictures of the legs. That material is SO gorgeous I just may get some pictures of it anyway.

Around here it's called "mock orange" only if you're making fun of it. Mock orange here is a fragrant bush whose bloom in the late spring can make one almost drunk, sort of in the same way lilac does. 
DanK


----------



## Bigun

Not quite ready for the Bondo pose just yet but I'm through with the build all but turning the vise handles and putting on the finish. Finished the chop and I just decided to open the the gap all the way around the signature plate. It gives a slight separation with a shadow and I think it looks pretty good. Got the top flattened and ready for finish.


----------



## Bigun




----------



## NinjaAssassin

I like it Troy. Looks awesome. I dig your decision to separate the border a little bit and leave it. Good choice.


----------



## DanKrager

Looks ready for use! Now set up the ramp or whatever it takes…BONDO POSE DEMANDED. 
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

And the crowd goes wild, Bondo, Bondo Bondo Bondo …...


----------



## Bigun

Got to be totally finished befor the POSE….plan on turning the handles and applying the finish tonight. Bondo pose coming over the weekend.


----------



## richardwootton

> And the crowd goes wild, Bondo, Bondo Bondo Bondo …...
> 
> - theoldfart


LAWL! Easily one of my favorite things on this site…


----------



## terryR

Looks great, Troy!
Would like to see more personalized chops!
Starting with mine…


----------



## Bigun

> Looks great, Troy!
> Would like to see more personalized chops!
> Starting with mine…
> 
> - terryR


Just thought it would be the most logical place to put it. Most likely place for it to get damaged and it's different, I'm different.


----------



## kiefer

Here is my latest chop with marquetry by *Shipwright /Paul*









Klaus


----------



## terryR

Klaus, that's beautiful. I enjoyed seeing your shop yesterday in the video! Can tell it's your home and lots of crafts are built there!

Nice work, Paul.


----------



## Bigun

Now that's cool.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Love the 10lb weight for a wheel, that is awesome.


----------



## CL810

Klaus you never fail to amaze!

Troy, stay off the computer until you're done! ;-)


----------



## DanKrager

Progress has been made on the saw bench project. I'm not moving fast with it partly because I'm helping with a network project. But I've posted the progress with pictures on my site.
DanK

Edit: An idea popped into the picture as I was saving the sketchup file for the umteenth time. If I put sliding dovetails on the facing edges of the tops, I could slide a two sided insert between the tops. One side would have a carrying handle while the other side would stand proud of the top by an inch or more to act like a regular saw horse. Sliding in the dovetail would allow it to reach and provide support beyond the top. That insert piece will also have dog holes. You'll see later, if that wasn't clear.


----------



## john2005

The chances of me stealing your design on that are pretty high Dan. I like it a lot


----------



## Bigun

Shhhh! Don't tell Clayton I'm on here, he says stay off till I'm done. Lol!
Getting so close to done. Going to pick up a piece of leather and need to glue it to the chop. What's the best adhesive to use for this? The leather will have to come from HobbyLobby, only source for it around here. The piece is about a third the thickness of the leather belts you see being tooled, so I figured it'll work ok. Also plan on glueing a pad to the face of the holdfasts. Can I use the same adhesive or what is recomended for this?


----------



## terryR

Troy, hide glue is best for leathers.
But, I just used 5minute epoxy to attach leather to my holdfasts.


----------



## Bigun

Hide glue isn't something you can just pick up anywhere, is it? Never used it so not really sure what I'm looking for.


----------



## terryR

Most places sell it in a bottle now.
Honestly, any glue is likely to hold leather to a chop IMO. It gets pressed into the chop with each use! LOL.


----------



## terryR

Dan, I have a feeling a few of us will copy that saw bench. It's a great design…says the guy with no design skills!

Nice website…love your scrollwork! Saw a photo of you out vending your wares…cool…now I feel like brothers!  Although my lil canopy is in ruins…hate to buy another one…But what in the world do I do with 100 wooden spoons, bowls, and baskets? Hmmm…website?


----------



## JayT

Troy, I use contact cement for leather to wood bond. Haven't had any issues whatsoever.


----------



## DanKrager

Thanks for the encouragement and enablement, fellas. I'm gonna modify the drawing today to put the sliding dovetail in, then I'll post a downloadable Ketchup file on my site. 
DanK


----------



## woodcox

+1 to a terry wares gettin place.


----------



## DanKrager

OK. Updated Sketchup 15 file available on my site now. 
Goin' out to the shop now to finish fitting the tenons.
DanK


----------



## Bigun

Drum roll, please. BONDO!!!!!!!!


----------



## theoldfart

Well done Troy. Someday Stef and I will join that elite group, someday


----------



## richardwootton

Yes! Way to go Troy! The Bondo tradition continues!


----------



## Bigun

Ok, finished the wagon vise handle at 11 today. The bench is complete and ready to take a beating, though I'll be gentle to start with. 
Hand rubbed two coats of Watco Danish Oil and man did it make a difference. I think she Beautiful. Learned a lot on this build and thanks for all the support and guidance along the way. I'm in love with her so y'all have to put up with a few more picks of my sweetheart!


----------



## woodbench

Very fine work Troy!


----------



## theoldfart

Troy, again well down. One nit pick by the way, that shop is painfully neat and organized. Just can't trust folks that neat, seems to me like they are hiding something.  ( is my envy showing?)


----------



## richardwootton

> Well done Troy. Someday Stef and I will join that elite group, someday
> 
> - theoldfart


TOF, I'm right there with you guys. Some sweet day…


----------



## theoldfart

New group WBSDWannabe's!


----------



## CL810

Troy, ya did good! As the oil cures that bench is gonna keep looking better.


----------



## woodcox

Fine work Troy. Congrats with the new bench. Maybe a pic of the right end of your bench sometime? Very cool you worked that big screw into a new home.


----------



## terryR

Nice, Troy!
Love the color of your pine, and yes, your shop is too clean.
LOL.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Great job, Troy! That's a beautiful bench


----------



## Mosquito

Awesome Troy!


----------



## DanKrager

At first glance Troy I wondered how you got and photo-shopped a picture of me on your bench! We could be twins from that picture. You might just wander back there tonight and spend a little quality time sprawled on it…
I can see why you'd be in love with that sweetheart! You went over the top to make a such a nice bench and as CL810 said, it will continue to gather character. 
If that doesn't inspire Stef, I don't know what will, bless his heart!
Ya, now where's the sawdust and shavings? 
DanK


----------



## JayT

Looks great, Troy. You didn't mess around on time or quality.


----------



## duckmilk

Good looking bench, Troy. Congrats


----------



## Iguana

Awesome, Troy!

Now get to work - that apron isn't nearly beat up enough.


----------



## Bigun

Couldn't figure out the resize think with photobucket, seems every pic landscape it cut part off when posting. I've had several pics showing the right side and they keep getting cut off. Think I've figured it out. Let's try again.


----------



## Bigun

Shop is clean because I'm using another toy, uh tool, that I added to dust collection system. Got Rocklers Dust Rite and like it, so much easier to clean up the tools and floor. I use the tool Brush most of the time, even on the floor. It don't have the guard built in like the floor sweep and it don t fall out of the handle like the floor tube. I will modify it with a add on handle but haven't had the time.bench building us know!


----------



## Bigun

Actually, here's the pic after I finished.


----------



## richardwootton

I love that walnut Breadboard dovetailed into the pine. Very good looking!


----------



## Bigun

Not sure how much an issue this is going to be but I did notice that when I clamped a board in the lug vise I could tighten the screw after contact and this is pulling the bottom of the chop in which pulls the top slightly away from the clamped board. Maybe that's too tight, I was just trying it out. I've got the leather and glue curing right now. I'll check it again when it's dry and see how it holds at good contact. 
Also wanted to ask about the Crochet. I don't see many in the builds here but was wandering if it would be a needed add on?


----------



## Bigun

> I love that walnut Breadboard dovetailed into the pine. Very good looking!
> 
> - richardwootton


Yeah, little bit of a contrast, right?
So glad I worked through the nerves and did this rather than original plan of a bandsawn single through dovetail. Nothing wrong with that either it's just that I'm glad I decided to try my first hand cut on a bench that I'll see every time I go into the shop.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Troy, with photobucket, I always had to "edit" the photo before I uploaded it. Meaning downsize it to like 800×600 pixels.

As for hide glue, Titebond makes a hide glue that you don't have to warm up. I haven't found a home store that carries it, but woodworking stores do. Or online. I use this stuff more than yellow glue anymore.


----------



## Buckethead

W00000T!

Troy in BEASTMODE.


----------



## Bigun

> Troy, with photobucket, I always had to "edit" the photo before I uploaded it. Meaning downsize it to like 800×600 pixels.
> 
> As for hide glue, Titebond makes a hide glue that you don t have to warm up. I haven t found a home store that carries it, but woodworking stores do. Or online. I use this stuff more than yellow glue anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Thanks red, but ended up using gorilla glue and its setting up now.


----------



## widdle

great bench troy..A work horse for sure..And the makers mark really gives it that hand made look..Good Stuff..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Excellent Bondo, now get that bench some USE!


----------



## theoldfart

Hey Smitty, what's with the Stanley Mitre box? I thought you were a GP kinda guy!

The shop looks perfect.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I have too many mitreboxes, but use each of them as much as I can. Needed tall mitres today, and the No. 346 was just the ticket.


----------



## CL810

> Not sure how much an issue this is going to be but I did notice that when I clamped a board in the lug vise I could tighten the screw after contact and this is pulling the bottom of the chop in which pulls the top slightly away from the clamped board. Maybe that s too tight, I was just trying it out. I ve got the leather and glue curing right now. I ll check it again when it s dry and see how it holds at good contact.
> Also wanted to ask about the Crochet. I don t see many in the builds here but was wandering if it would be a needed add on?
> 
> - Troy Cleckler


Ya Troy, that's an easy fix. Your criss-cross needs fine tuning. You need to "build up" the bearing plates by inserting some thin material (thin cardboard, veneer, etc) behind the plates. Right now your chop is closing "toe-out" and you want it to be toe-in. Funny but mine had too much toe in and I had to do the opposite.

There is a sweet spot you're looking for. You have to have the toe in effect but if you have too much of it then only the top edge of your chop will come into contact with the board being clamped.


----------



## Bigun

> Ya Troy, that s an easy fix. Your criss-cross needs fine tuning. You need to "build up" the bearing plates by inserting some thin material (thin cardboard, veneer, etc) behind the plates. Right now your chop is closing "toe-out" and you want it to be toe-in. Funny but mine had too much toe in and I had to do the opposite.
> 
> There is a sweet spot you re looking for. You have to have the toe in effect but if you have too much of it then only the top edge of your chop will come into contact with the board being clamped.
> 
> - CL810


So if I understand I need to shim the bottom plate, on the leg side to push the cris cross assembly out a little, which should push the top of the chop in. On the right track?


----------



## CL810

Yep.


----------



## Slyy

Troy congrats on the Bondo!!!!! That is a sweet looking bench, for sure dispels any myth that pine can't look beautiful In this use!!!

Smitty, that is one gorgeous bench/shop shot!! Utterly jealous!


----------



## john2005

Troy. Nice!


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Well, this weekend didn't quite go as planned. Spent Friday evening until about 1:30am at the ER and went back for about half the day Saturday. All is well, thankfully. The lathe I was hoping to see today was sold yesterday (I'm not in a rush to get one so it didn't "hurt" very much). Fortunately, I was still able to make a trip to the lumber yard run by a tree service in my area.

Here's what I came back with:




























The first time I talked to him a few days ago he said he had some white oak that was air dried for several years that would work for my purposes. Said it was in the 10-12% mc range. I get there today and he had some maple waiting for me cut to rough dimensions. He said it was dry (he earlier mentioned that a lot of the stuff had been there for years) so we'll see.

Between the grain and the spalting in most of this maple, the figure is beautiful. It doesn't show up very well in the pictures but you can get an idea of what it looks like:










I originally told him I needed the following dimensions: (2) 48"x4"x6", (4) 36"x4"x6", (2) 24"x4"x6". He had that ready for me and threw in two more 36"x4"x6" pieces. After I paid him, I asked if he had any 4/4 or 8/4 boards as opposed to slabs (slabs account for about 95% of his stock), he said "help yourself to any 2x material you want, it's all yours." So, I grabbed a few extra boards but didn't really feel comfortable filling the bed of my truck up with all I wanted. Besides, even if I did I'd have to figure out how to store it all appropriately.

Anyway, here's how the maple will sit for a while:










I'm going to let it sit there for at least a week (longer if I can stand it) to acclimate. Hopefully there won't be any checking or much movement.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

BTW, this dude had some awesome, 4-5inch thick slabs that would have worked amazingly as a one or two piece bench top. His sawmill is a Hud-Son 52 so he's got a lot of 36-48" wide slabs there. A part of me wanted to scrap the pine beam top I've worked on so far and buy one of his 48" wide, 5" thick, 6-8 foot long slabs of beech, cherry, walnut, maple or whatever else (there were so many beautiful slabs…), have him rip it down the center and end up with two bench top worthy slabs. If I had the space, finances and physical ability to move that sort of stuff easily, I might have ended up with buying one "just in case."


----------



## duckmilk

You had me surprised with that first photo, Billy. "Here's what I came back with:" The first thing I saw was a kid. What? :O Then I saw the lumber. Nice haul


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Yeah, the lumber dude gave me the little girl as a sort of "thanks for shopping with me" gift. I figure she might work out ok, in the end.


----------



## CL810

> Yeah, the lumber dude gave me the little girl as a sort of "thanks for shopping with me" gift. I figure she might work out ok, in the end.
> 
> - NinjaAssassin


Glad you cleared that up. I was thinking you got her at the emergency room. Looks like she's a natural for beam gymnastics.


----------



## Lucasd2002

Billy, any chance this lumber place is near Atlanta?


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## Buckethead

Billy… I think this is the guy I thought might be a tad steep? I guess I was way wrong. Obviously a decent guy. Maple looks fantastic. This is gonna be a beauty.


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## NinjaAssassin

Sorry Lucas, this dude's in Jessup, Maryland.

Yeah, Buckethead. For what it's worth, I'm a cynic at heart, too. You and I were on the same page (which is why I asked about it). I was more than pleasantly surprised. The place is so disorganized and yet so amazing…I asked my wife if she'd mind me seeing if the dude would be willing to hire me to work a weekend or two a month to help him get the place in order (which is what he's trying to do), for gas money and my choice of lumber. I mean, that'd be all kinds of fun.

The figure on some of this maple is so pretty, I don't want to use it for bench legs. Fortunately, I'll have two 36"x4×6 pieces left to do something with. I'm thinking of using one and doing a double book match to make a guitar. The center two 6" pieces would be book matched and the outer 3-4 inch pieces would be book matched to the inner pieces they're connected to…if that makes sense.

Anyway, yay.


----------



## Buckethead

If some of the spalting can be incorporated Inthe book matching… Fabuloso!


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Yeah man!


----------



## Bigun

Good looking timber there.


----------



## terryR

Billy, If your wife lets you keep that maple stacked in the living room for a week, she's a keeper! 

Elf seems to approve!

Finally got permission to purchase the end vise from LV, so I should have fun photos soon! Sure hope my walnut and pine comes out as nice as Troy's…


----------



## CL810

I found this wagon vise on David Barron's site this morning. Interesting that they call it a tail vise.

It would be a simpler install but you would not be able to drop a board in the normal opening for a wagon vise. Not sure if that is much of a loss or not. The space for the vise to travel would also trap benchtop detritus.


----------



## JayT

I saw that blog post, too, CL810. Looking at that vise, I think I'd do the Veritas surface vise for less than half the money first. Or, for even less expenditure and more flexibility, a holdfast and batten, which is what I use now.

Pulled my end vise (really a front vise attached to the end) off about eight months ago and haven't missed it in the least. The holdfast is much quicker to adjust than any vise, plus it's way more therapeutic to whack something with a mallet than to spin a handle. When a project is going badly, pick a piece to plane, whack the top of the holdfast a couple times, make some shavings, whack the side of the holdfast. Instant therapy, frustrations gone, continue with project.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Yeah, she's a keeper. 

My daughter is the only one who sustains any interest in helping daddy "in the workshop" (what they're calling the fireplace right now, for obvious reasons). Her twin brother likes to watch and play near me while working until he gets bored. My oldest likes to help but he wants everything to be easy so he loses interest when it's not. We're workign on that


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Question for you smart people. Two of the beams have a lot of pine pitch. It's solid (no oozing or anything the entire time they were in my uninsulated, hot shop during the summer and in the house it seems set just the same) but does tend to gum up my planes after a few passes. With enough friction, I'll get little bits of resin adhering to the sole of my planes. So how do I deal with this stuff? I intend to do a couple coats of watco danish oil over the whole bench once it's done and I'm wondering if i'll have to do anything to prepare the areas where there's lots of pitch. Right now it's mostly around the knots.


----------



## CL810

Or even LV's inset vise. Just thought it was interesting and I was a little surprised Barron put it on his bench.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That Barron vise looks nice. Like clayton says, it's not as full-featued as a wagon. Most use my end vise gets is holding a mitrebox between dogs. Very effective.


----------



## terryR

JayT, THANKS for the link to the holdfast and batten!
Just what I needed!


----------



## richardwootton

Billy, I don't think you'll have an issue just applying finish over the areas with a lot of pitch. My planes get gummed up pretty quickly when working with pitchy pine also. Wiping some mineral spirits should clean it up pretty quickly.


----------



## bandit571

A little drill









Stand it up on the bench


----------



## bandit571

every six inches, drill a hole









Just so a few plastic dogs from a B&D Workmate can be used









as a plane stop to plane a board. Need to start to draw up a plane for an end vise, I guess…


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Thanks Richard. I've been using acetone to clean off the pitch from my planes which works pretty well. My father in law "borrowed" my can of can of mineral spirits over the summer and I haven't bought another can yet.


----------



## ssnvet

I like those little plastic Work Mate dogs Bandit… Kregg makes some spiffy blue plastic dogs as well.


----------



## Bigun

Well I couldn't leave well enough alone. Couldn't stand being through with the bench so I thought I'd add a crochet. I know there's a lot of discussions that have debated the need or use if you've got a leg vise. I may hardly ever use it but it's there if I ever do and I think it looks cool.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Man, that is a pretty huge chunk of walnut. Looks good Troy!


----------



## Bigun

It's glued up. Left over end of the deadman.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Love it!


----------



## rasetacouenne

> Well I couldn t leave well enough alone. Couldn t stand being through with the bench so I thought I d add a crochet. I know there s a lot of discussions that have debated the need or use if you ve got a leg vise. I may hardly ever use it but it s there if I ever do and I think it looks cool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Troy Cleckler


Nice bike!


----------



## Bigun

That's not a bike, it's a trike, recumbent tadpole. My grandkids think it's funny that there Poppi rides a tricycle. I get poked fun of a lot but I don't care, it's a very comfortable ride.


----------



## terryR

Crochet looks great, Troy!

I must have been asleep one day in class…never caught the notch on the end of battens…till yesterday…










Just stupid simple, and fast to adjust!

Thanks a million, JayT!


----------



## Mosquito

I've yet to try the holdfast and batten approach yet, but thought it was interesting when he first posted that video. My main reason for not trying it, is that I don't have a planing stop at the end of the bench, so I'd be limited in length to somewhere around 2' in length if I did that, given my dog hole locations and furthest right holdfast hole


----------



## JayT

> Just stupid simple, and fast to adjust!


That's why I love it. Sometimes the old ideas really are better.

Might be worth adding a planing stop to the end of the bench, Mos. If nothing else, you could make a simple t-square style one that you can clamp in the leg vise.


----------



## BubbaIBA

> Crochet looks great, Troy!
> 
> ...
> Just stupid simple, and fast to adjust!
> 
> Thanks a million, JayT!
> 
> - terryR


Add to that….a lot cheaper and easier to make than an end vise.


----------



## bandit571

After over a year of use and abuse, time to clean this old bench top up









The old woodie Jack planes got thing almost flat, again. An Iron body to level the top a bit









Might work on that Crochet later. A smoother plane to smooth things out









Then a wipe on coat of SMELLY BLO to seal the new wood









I even added a couple more dog holes! Should be good for another year? Maybe?


----------



## DanKrager

Lookin' good, there Bandit!
DanK


----------



## terryR

Just removed the brown Danish Oil from my bench…










Hoping to keep that virgin pine look! 

Having serious doubts about that breadboard end with fake dovetail corners…










...is this^ too ugly and plain?


----------



## waho6o9

Far from ugly and plain Jane is the best.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmmm, used my bench enough that I needed to reflatten, and refinish it. Yet, SOME people have YET to even build their first one? Stef, what is the hold up? The bench I have took maybe one day to build…...

i


----------



## richardwootton

Terry that's one big ass hunk of walnut!


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## CL810

Seriously nice looking T! And that walnut, oh my…..


----------



## chrisstef

A 2 year old, working 50 hours a week, a new house, general laziness, inability to work more than two hours at a time … but we all know what they say about excuses. Ill probably build then bench and not show it until its done. 

Honestly, without commiting myself to anything, im getting very close to starting to work on it again. I got all my machines powered up but need a bit of fine tuning and some new blades for my jointer. Once that happens, and I knock out a couple small shop projects, ill be back on the horse.

Now stop doing Smitty's dirty work bandito lol.

Chunky pile of walnut there Terry!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Doesn't look bad Terry, but I like the dovetail better


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## terryR

yep, BEFORE I could even pay for that 4×7" walnut, THREE other woodworkers asked about it, and the stack of shorts on my cart! 

Been saving it 4+ years for something…

edit…Red, I like the DT's better, too, just not sure how bad they will look being separate chunks than the actual breadboard? or tails on the breadboard, and pins on my apron?


----------



## widdle

Stef.4 legs and a top brother…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"... general laziness,... getting very close to starting to work on it again…"

Warms my heart, it does.

If I didn't think it was gonna be an awesome bench when completed, I wouldn't harass you at all. And we all know Bandit never moves away from a good dust-up.


----------



## bandit571

I think I could provide a step-by-step ( 12 in all) how-to for Stef to make a "quickie" bench. Then he could use that to make The Stef Bench of Lore….


----------



## duckmilk

I hauled in my future bench today. Gonna take some work. 18' long for the most part.










A bunch of these are going to be firewood, but will see what is salvageable. If this doesn't work, there is more.










A couple on the bottom layer are 9 1/2 to 11" wide oak.










Many are too broken up though. Oilfield equipment does that.

I officially predict that Steph will get his done before mine. Not kidding.
I haven't even started on my shop (within a shop) yet.

Funny thing, I borrowed the trailer from a friend and asked "are the tires good?" They were all bald, the plug-in lacked a foot from meeting the receptacle, so no lights, and the license tags expired 12/14. A lot of back roads were taken.


----------



## Airframer

Looks like fun Duck!

Stef takes a lot of back doors too… oh roads… you said roads.


----------



## duckmilk

Hahaha!


----------



## duckmilk

Actually, I'm hoping it will be fun, Eric. We are going to get more of these, mill them and see what is underneath. I also want to save some as beams to use as accent for our future house, like posts on the back porch kind of thing.


----------



## Tugboater78

Im starting to get as bad as stef.. need some warm weather and some home time to do some laminations.


----------



## Buckethead

That's an exciting day, duck. Looks like a heap of usable wood to me. What's your milling plan?

I haven't salvaged any timbers that large, but do have some that would have been ideal for a bench build. (4"x6"x9' being the largest dimension) and trying to resaw on a crappy little table saw was no fun at all. Nor was it a means of maximizing yield. (SWIDT, Todd?)

I was wishing I had access to a small band mill. Even a proper band saw with a couple hp would have been far better than awkward double passes on teh rye oh bee.


----------



## RPhillips

Those are some monsters, Duck.

One thing I learned when working with large timbers is that all though your bandsaw may have the capacity, you still need to be able to slide the material through the bandsaw. This is what I found to be my problem. The wood was too large and heavy to have the finesse required to push and guide it through the cut. As I pushed hard enough to get the wood moving it was too much for the bandsaw and would bogg and stop.


----------



## Mikhail

Hi all.

Whew! thats a long thread. Good read though and gives a good `feel` for the challenges ahead.

I have a Roubo build starting out and have a question for the group.

My intent is a SYP build with some ash for the edges and perhaps the dog hole laminates.

Has anyone encountered any problems with this mix of hard and soft laminations? Would it cause uneven expansion somewhere or wear on projects ON the table as the workbench wears unevenly? Anthing I am not seeing yet?

I have a Sketchup plan in place, and JUST about to send boards thru planer….and thought I would send this quick question to the group first.

Duck: Wood scores like that are why I refuse to give up my trailer. Well done, sir.

Edit: By request here is my Sketchup plan (work in progress) of what I am aiming for. I will be tweaking it again based on final lamination thickness (depending on results from planer). Base is not complete as shown.


----------



## RPhillips

Good luck with your build Mikhail. Keep us updated on your build. Pics are good 

Someone more knowledgeable than I will be along shortly to give you some answers.


----------



## DanKrager

Mikhail, That combination of woods may be scarce to find good info. Run out to the shop and quickly laminate two pieces approximately same width you intend to use. Can be any length, from 1" to, say, 12". When you get the clamps off, take it to the oven for an hour at 250°, or put it in the microwave for up to 10 one minute bursts at low power about 5 min apart. This puts MAXIMUM stress on the pair and you will quickly see what is going to happen. Then you have to decide how much is acceptable x the length of your bench.

While pretty is good, function on a bench is primary. There seem to be many successful SYP builds here, as you may have discovered from lengthy read. I don't foresee any problems using different woods as breadboards, legs, rails, vice jaws, or accent pieces, but the laminate mix could be troublesome. You are wise to be cautious. 
Good luck!
DanK


----------



## Bigun

Mikhail, I'm with Dan in that, the lamination could present some issues. I ended up using black walnut in mine but only as accent pieces. I was skeptical about using SYP but now that it's finished, I'm very pleased with it. Let us know what you decide on and keep us informed along the build. The guys helped me a lot on my build so ask questions and post lots of pics.


----------



## duckmilk

Bucket, Rob, the neighbor has a Wood Mizer diesel powered protable bandsaw mill. We'll be using a tractor and the mill to cut these up. I don't know how this will work out since about half are really damaged and marketable lumber may not be profitable. I will, however, be able to get enough for a bench.

I'm keeping my eye out for some that will produce quartersawn planks. Because all of these have a 1 inch hole through the middle, a 3 inch thick plank is probably all I will be able to harvest, which is more than thick enough for me.

Welcome Mikhail!


----------



## Mikhail

Hmmm…I suspect the face gluing of such radically different densities of wood, would cause excessive warping to the workbench surface. Further reading re laminated (structural) 24" beams using fir and pine shows great success in preserving strength with no found advantage in using 100% fir (small vote for trying it) HOWEVER that is quite different than ash vs SYP.

If I HAD to, one suggested method is to re-saw the ash and re-glue with the cupping opposing each other, to minimize the movement. This would not address the difference in seasonal movement though. Huh.

The wearing resistance gained in a hardwood dog hole seems small compared to reducing the stability of the work surface.

The EXCELLENT post of copper tube reinforcement of round dog holes (Thanks again Kiefer!) sort of makes this a non issue.

At the end of the day If I had to choose between strength and stability, stability wins as establishing the baseline of a LEVEL workbench WILL effect every project built in the future.

I really need this workbench built, more than I need to innovate and experiment.

Thanks folks….. what WAS I thinking (shakes head)


----------



## duckmilk

I seem to remember several people on this thread who laminated different species of wood into their banchtop with no problems. Or am I missing something?


----------



## DanKrager

Duck, my memory is not good enough in detail to say for sure, but I'm thinking the different species were all hardwoods, not hard-soft-hard-soft etc. While there is still some difference in the amount of movement between the species, it's not nearly as great as that between dense and porous woods. 
DanK


----------



## CL810

Duck and Mikhail - you boys are here to save the day! With Troy wrapping up his bench, gloom and despair were starting to set in.

Bring on the pics!


----------



## Buckethead

My bench has half inch thick inlays of walnut over maple. Quarter sawn grain facing up, like all other plies of maple. No sign of stress for over a year. I'm thinking if it was a full ply of walnut it might be more problematic.


----------



## Buckethead

I should really take a better photo.


----------



## woodcox

Mikhail, the center (22" or so) of my bench is Douglas fir with laminated rock maple front and back edging. Front 7", including the apron and the back 5". I have yet to see an issue thus far, but my legs are not through the top. Most of my abuse has been on the maple like I anticipated.


----------



## duckmilk

> Duck and Mikhail - you boys are here to save the day! With Troy wrapping up his bench, gloom and despair were starting to set in.
> 
> Bring on the pics!
> 
> - CL810


 Gloom and despair, that happens to be my specialty, Clayton. Look at all the gloom and despair I donated to the saw thread.


----------



## CL810

Duck, you ain't got time for gloom and despair. Troy set a new bench mark for completing a bench. What was it, 4 or 6 weeks from start to finish? You boys better put your work boots on in the morning!

I sure am glad Troy built his after I built mine!


----------



## Iguana

Mikhail, welcome to this thread. We need an active build, now that Troy finished up.

The difference in density between SYP and ash won't have any impact on the stability. What will have an impact is differing expansion/shrinkage rates. With a thick glueup, substantial differences could lead to glue line failure.

Fortunately, ash and SYP have almost identical numbers in that regards. See http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/longleaf-pine/ and http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/white-ash/ for the specifics. There's more likely to be greater deviation between individual boards than between the species averages.

That being said, nothing wrong with using SYP all around.


----------



## Mikhail

Very interesting. Hmmm. Ok, I will plane up some of the ash I have and see how it compares and/or behaves with the SYP.

Right now my shop has only a metal vice attached to the surface of my lathe bed. I have over the years I have acquired 2 metal woodworking vices, that really need a workbench to call home. A nice HEAVY bench preferably. I used to do a lot of cold forming by hand of 10-16 gauge steel. Used a variety of stumps that I would move around the shop depending where I was working. I REMEMBER the joy of pounding on a work surface with some mass to it. I want that again for my shop. My current bench is scabbed together from old metal desk and a door. Clamping anything to it is a major pain. It is better than nothing but….










I know I need the bench built, I really do. Now as a reminder I have a very fine EXACTLY 3/8" wide cut in my palm.

I have been sharpening up all my chisels to prep for the build. I even got my new-to-me Viking Wet wheel refurbished (replaced broken wheel, and wheel mounts) and a new sharpening support built for it. Slooooooooooooow speed wet grinder. wow. 72 rpm. Won't ever burn a tip but it was definite time investment to regrind all my old chisels.










First test of one of the chisels to see if its good to go was working on a Kerf maker jig. Held in my hand.

Soooo looks like the chisels are now sharp. Proof is finished kerf maker and a very slow to bleed fine cut. It ALMOST didn't hurt. Hmmm. Nice and sharp. Cool. Ow.

Haha. Ow.

Workbench materials been in my basement shop now for around 5 weeks, so should be acclimatized. Time to prep the shop space for planing.

Ash boards for bench:









And the SYP: (along with a piece of Oak and some Birch in the background, unintended for bench)









More to follow.


----------



## DanKrager

Couple of progress update pics. Can anyone spot the repaired DOH! (hits forehead with deadblow mallet)? It's right there in front of the camera, not in some remote corner!










The only hand tool I have that can be used on this wood for surfacing is the scraper.  The one in the picture is nicely sharpened and it cuts faster than the 112. See the nice curlies? I'd love to try a back bevel on the #62, but I'm not willing to change the existing blade and by the time I order another, I'll be done. Some oil finish on the left leg…man this stuff is nice. Has just about every grain pattern there is sooner or later, and a surprising amount of subtle tiger stripe.










OK. Hint: Lower right corner…from habit I cut the half tail off. Then put it back on over a dowel. 
DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Made progress… one of many test fits.










Getting (more) excited.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, graceful lines on the legs, almost too good for a shop fixture. Like the hedge.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I wanna be like DanK when I grow up. Either him or Bob Summerfield…..I can't decide.


----------



## richardwootton

Dan, that's a fancy lookin' saw bench! I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of this come together.


----------



## Cantputjamontoast

nice stuff!!!


----------



## Buckethead

sweeeeeeeeeeet!


----------



## Mikhail

Wow Dan. Even with the hint that was really hard to spot. Very subtle repair.


----------



## terryR

Excellent progress, Dan!
The Osage is looking superb, so are the curlies!


----------



## JayT

Lookin' sweet, Dan.

Late to the party Mikhail, but I was going to mention what Mark did about expansion/contraction rates.

My bench is built of SPF construction lumber with ash on the front edge and endcaps. It has worked well. The ash holds up better to clamping and the knocks that happen around the shop. When I re-flattened the bench about six months after building, there was a noticeable difference in the strip of ash and the softwood. I chalk that up simply to the SPF not being as dry starting out, because in the year since that flattening, I have had no issues whatsoever.


----------



## DanKrager

More…










If look closely, the through mortices in the legs and feet look "gappy". I've pared the side walls to a taper so the wedge insertions at glue up will force the tenon wings against the tapered walls locking the joint solidly forever. These are not going to be quite as heavy as I expected, but still 40 lbs. (est) is hefty.

Now to find the 2" stuff. I'm really happy with the way I had it sawed. These heavy pieces are not fully cured, so I'm working "green", but if you have looked carefully where end grain is visible, rift sawn is the worst case scenario. The 2" will be fully QS! 
DanK


----------



## richardwootton

Dan that looks so sharp! It looks so good that I'm not wanting to post progress of my simpleton sawbench!


----------



## Buckethead

Dan, are there tenons from the legs into the feet?

They look incredible. I really need to lean sketchup and start planning my builds beforehand rather than developing from a rough idea as I progress.

Your benches look just like you drew them. I find that incredible. You're killing it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dan, you're a better man than me, working with that hedge apple (osage orange). Gives you all kinds of fits, and you keep pressing. Very cool, and is really beautiful stuff.


----------



## CL810

Most impressive Dan.


----------



## Bigun

Looking good Dan. 
Richard, don't apalogize for anything you build. I don't have a saw bench so whatever you're building is over and above me as well as other. Show it off.

Man it's good to be through with a build and relax and read about all the hard work others are doing.


----------



## DanKrager

Yah, RW, don't be shy! Post the pictures! We all want to applaud your efforts…we are a bunch of enablers!

Yes, each leg has a 4 1/2" long x 1/2" thick tenon passing all the way through the foot. Among the largest tenons I've done. It was interesting to pare the through mortise in the foot with grain going in two directions. I actually cut them out with my scroll saw. Made it WORK (grunt). Two blades wiped clean of working teeth. I didn't plan to do them like that, but the leg assy wasn't too bad to handle on that size saw.



> Your benches look just like you drew them.
> - Buckethead


Bucket, it has been worth the effort to learn SU. It is SO handy to have a dimensioned drawing I can trust (because it came from a virtual fit). I've learned to use layers. Build the assembly on layer zero making each part a component. Dimensions are on a "dim" layer, and parts (components) are duplicated on a "parts" layer where the assembly is separated into parts arranged so they can be cleanly printed. If you need to make a change, the program automatically updates all the instances of that component. Using a "scene" for each part makes it easy to get to that part for checking things. Drafting and CAD experience helps.
DanK


----------



## john2005

Dan, as has been stated, I am totally digging those saw benches. Very cool. They look exceptionally good with the wood choice.


----------



## terryR

Sweet looking saw benches, Dan! I love all the through tenons, and the shaped feet! Any finish should make that osage sing.

I need to learn SU as well…even bought a $15 DVD to teach me the secrets…still too complex for me old brain. I actually made straight A's in Computer Engineering , 12 years ago, but cannot draw a box in SU! Where's my pencil and plastic straightedge?

LOL!


----------



## ToddJB

Really cool benches, Dan.

As for SU, I should take the time to learn it too. I've tried in 10 minutes spurts before, but it really needs some dedicated time and effort.

Though, most of my designing is really just rough sketches and building on the fly.


----------



## john2005

I'm a fly builder too…


----------



## Mikhail

This bench build has forced me to take the time to learn SU. There was a lot of bench plans out there with features I liked, so the ability to plan it in SU is fundamental to me.

If I could make a suggestion, for those interested in learning SU… print out a keyboard reference sheet.

Just being able to hit a key and have that function happen instantly, made coming up to speed in SU measurable in minutes, rather than days.

Here is one of many available:









Here is full size one so you can read it:
http://sketchup-ur-space.com/2013/march/img/cover-storey-sketchup-shortcuts-8.jpg


----------



## ssnvet

Very nice looking work Dan.


----------



## daddywoofdawg

I'm trying to figure out how high I would need for a workbench for planing and hand sawing, I see the palm of your hand for a measurement,but being in a wheelchair that would almost be the floor,so should I go elbow height? any thoughts from anyone?


----------



## DLK

I think thats a tricky question. You also have to worry about interference with the wheelchair. Hence high enough to be over the wheels and/or arm rests. (Maybe you can remove yours). I would do the following. I would build temporary structures (out of maybe cardboard boxes, sawhorses, small tables, etc) and see what feels good.
I suspect you are correct "elbow height". Or I think maybe half way between lap and elbow height, if you can avoid chair interference.

See this link


----------



## duckmilk

Don K, I think that link is an excellent place for him to start. Good luck woofdawg, let us know how it goes


----------



## DanKrager

The tops are acclimating and getting touched up ready to cut pins tomorrow.

This black walnut lumber was considered junk and left outdoors. I thought it would make good till pieces, so I removed most of the waste (60%) and this is what the tills will come from. It is now "acclimating" and by the time I get ready to work with it, I'm betting it's back to near flat. It sat under an infrared flash dryer this afternoon and I can already see major movement . It'll be fun to see this come back to rights. 









DanK


----------



## richardwootton

I had. Thin piece of maple that did the same thing now it's, well, flat as a board.


----------



## Buckethead

I like having Dan around. I learn a bunch.


----------



## ToddJB

+1, Bucket


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> The tops are acclimating and getting touched up ready to cut pins tomorrow.
> 
> This black walnut lumber … sat under an infrared flash dryer this afternoon and I can already see major movement.
> 
> - Dan Krager


Amazing. Just where does someone come by an infrared flash dryer?


----------



## DanKrager

A large local cabinet shop was bankrupt and I attended the auction. The auctioneer was saddled with the responsibility of selling four stories (an old shoe factory) of largely junk, a few good power tools. I happened to position myself where I could see the action and found myself next to a fixture on the floor. Eventually the auctioneer came to it and inquired if anyone would bid a dollar on this fluorescent light fixture. I ran the bid up to $3 and it was mine. Bit later they sold a whole room full of molding for $75, and there was another "light fixture" on the floor. It was being ignored so I asked the auctioneer if he was going to sell it. "It's yours for a dollar". OK.
I knew they weren't light fixtures and I needed shop heaters, so I took them home and hooked them up. Worked fine. Then I started researching about replacement parts if needed and found that when new, these fixtures with twin elements 48" long cost over $2500.00 each! A replacement filament is over $200, but so far so good.
They (and a bunch of others were junked in the basement) had been used on the finish line to flash dry the finished doors coming out of the automatic spray booth. That's where you get infrared flash dryers.
DanK


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## Buckethead

Nice, Dan!

Smitty… Frikkin good question. It all makes sense.


----------



## duckmilk

Wow, what a find and nice story! Dan, do you have pictures of it? I would like to see what it looks like and what the difference is between these and light fixtures.


----------



## DanKrager

I turn these on for just a little bit each very cold day to keep the work area above freezing. This warms the tool tills without causing condensation. These "lights" are electron hell and pull 16 amps @220V The reflectors were not shiny when I got them and I couldn't see what color they were for all the dust and grime. I learned how tricky it is to polish aluminum…the usual stuff doesn't work. I went to trucker buddies who polish their rims and I don't remember what the stuff was but I couldn't seem to make it work. Any tips would be appreciated. I ended up with a lot of elbow grease and 0000 steel wool.










Wasn't pleased with the progress, so I added an accelerant… water.










DanK


----------



## terryR

Goodness gracious! 16 amps x 220 volts = a 3,520 watt shop light! For $3?

Dan, that's the biggest 'you suck' I've seen this year.


----------



## ssnvet

Dan… make sure you ware sun screen under those bad boys. You might get broiled …..

Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode when Kramer was sun bathing with butter on his skin and fell asleep on the roof. :^)


----------



## terryR

No Google sketchUp skills still…how about more Galoot sketchUp? LOL!










I've been looking at tons of photos of benches…here, online, books…for direction on where to go with my bench. Finally decided on finger joints to decorate the ends of my breadboards. I've never been a fan of them since they are machine joints, but they fit the bill here. And will add a bit of bling, I hope.

Today, I needed a break from the swap, so sharpened my 1" chisel and started surgery on my pine beater. Left side first…










To form the tongue needed for the breadboard, I laid out and formed a dado, so my routah had two flat surfaces to ride on, flipped the bench and nearly finished the underside tonight. Tomorrow, I should be able to cut off the extra used by the routah, and have a clean tongue?

Then, I can finish those finger joints…

I also cut off my existing tool tray! Hated it every since I cut holes in the bottom for clamps to reach through. Reach clamps from underneath the top on a bench with 13" aprons? Doh! What was I thinking?


----------



## john2005

Nice Terry!

Dan has all the cool stuff. Definitely a "you suck" there.


----------



## terryR

A little more progress last night…










These finger joints are challenging by hand! Scared to admit everything feels under control…I must be missing something!


----------



## waho6o9

http://www.autosol.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1824

"This revolutionary, ammonia-free product, created in the laboratories of Dursol-Fabrik, is perfect for cleaning and polishing uncoated aluminum surfaces leaving an unparalleled sheen without scratching or hazing. Remember to spray on Autosol Aluminum Protective Oil for extreme long lasting protection."

I like Autosol for metal polish but haven't used the aluminum stuff yet.

Good stuff and thanks for the information and neat story Dan, very informative.


----------



## DanKrager

Thanks for the tip, W. I'll try to find the stuff locally first. To be honest I haven't tried to look real hard at how to polish aluminum after the job got done!
DanK


----------



## waho6o9

Understandable


----------



## CL810

I'm probably the last one to see that Benchcrafted now offers a wheel for their leg vise.


----------



## ToddJB

Those look awesome, Andy.


----------



## RPhillips

> I m probably the last one to see that Benchcrafted now offers a wheel for their leg vise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - CL810


Yeah, they were available a while back when I purchase my Classic, would love to have one of those, but just couldn't swing the additional cost. Nice though.


----------



## ssnvet

I know Bench Crafted is top quality stuff, but their prices are just over the top IMO.

I'm hoping to build my own knee vise with 1.25" ACME lead screw and Grizzly has nice looking 8" cast handles for $17, and machined ones for $23


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm breaking a rule (if you don't have anything nice to say), but must say that wheel, with three horns sticking out, is incredibly silly-looking to me. Especially at the price BC commands. Yuck.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Lawl Smitty, I'm scratching my head too. Looks like the wheel to a pirate ship. Not sure how much I'd like that setup either. Though that price is for the whole leg vise setup….criss-cross and all. 
I like the wheel with a knob just fine. I wouldn't even have a knob if my wheel was a big as Don's (snicker).

Matt- it's the same thing all American tool makers run into. It's just not cheap to make high quality stuff in the US. The grizzly stuff is all from China. At one point, August and I were looking into putting together some moxon kits. Even with buying imported iron wheels, we weren't gonna save people a ton off the benchcrafted kits.


----------



## ssnvet

Your right Red… but DIY is my preference… My brother put forth the proposition this past fall that China has killed quality in many ways, as not one can compete with their low quality items, and Americans no longer appreciate quality or even know what it looks like.

I like the BC pirate wheel as it doesn't have a knob sticking out beyond the plane of the wheel to bust your nuts on.


----------



## DLK

Will a 1 1/2 inch diameter wood screw do for a leg vice? Or must I go larger?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Just seems it's gone full-circle. Vise with rod through it, then wheel because rod was passe, then to knob on wheel because it made wheel easier to turn quickly. Now knobs sticking out of wheels, so it's really not a wheel anymore at all. Weird.


----------



## Mosquito

*Combo Prof*: It will work, but if you can go larger I would. Mine is a 1-1/2" wooden screw. It works alright, but haven't been with out issue either.



















I also had the glue fail when I re-drilled, and glued and pegged the replacement. I just re-glued and re-pegged it, and it seems to be doing alright so far. First issue was within months of starting to use it, and the second was a couple months ago, after about 2-years.


----------



## DLK

I was planning on buying the Beall threader for use in making the leg vice and Moxon vice among other uses. But it only goes to 1 1/2 inch diameter. So ….. what to do? Buying a Lake Erie Toolworks screw and thread kit seems a little pricy. But I see your point its not that you won't get enough pressure from a 1 1/2 screw its that it can't handle
the torque stress from the handle.


----------



## Mosquito

The 1-1/2" screws work great for a moxon, that's what I used to make my benchtop moxon, and I'm quite pleased with it.

I also used one for the parallel guide on my leg vise too. I threaded a stopped hole in the vise chop, and glued it in place. Then threaded a 3/4" piece, and use that as the parallel guide. Works quite slick (Mauricio's is a little better looking, though. I just threaded a scrap piece of walnut, and haven't made a new one yet lol)


----------



## DLK

I just found Evans Wooden Screw Co. but its not clear what the diameter of the screws are or what the tpi is.

Also *Mos* do I understand your parallel guide correctly you only threaded the end of the dowel and left it smooth where it slides into the leg. Can you send a picture?


----------



## Mosquito

Not quite, the parallel guide is threaded the whole way.










Hole near the bottom of the leg (not tapped, just a hole drilled large enough for the screw to pass through)









Used as such (though that's an extreme, just seeing the full capability of the leg vise. I've since chopped the screw shorter)


----------



## CL810

Combo, I have an Evans wood screw and its 2".


----------



## August

Red yeah 
I still have the tooling to make those handles.

Moss love the twin screw men…


----------



## Mosquito

View on YouTube


----------



## August

Nice moss
Becarefull you might get a ticket for that things going so fast 
Love it nice job men


----------



## DLK

*Mos*: O.K. got it. Great video. Very interesting. I like it. I may do it. (By they way I'm 1/3 of the way to the required 1.5 of a Stanley #45. I'll post that story when it gets warm enough to do the restoration.)

*CL810*: Thanks for the info.

*To all*: I'm just planning ahead to when its above 0 and there is no snow and I can start the workbench build. Slowly figuring out what I need for the project.


----------



## terryR

Awesome, Mos! I gotta learn to thread wood one o these days…

I like the simple Ash handle on my leg vise, but THIS looks like a fun build!










August, can you shape the center hub for me? 

Nope, I don't want it on my bench, but it would look grand mounted on a door!!!


----------



## DanKrager

Terry, That will be a fun build. Why not a marine clock in the middle? I built this one just for that many many years ago. It's somewhere on the east coast. 
DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Oh, and threading wood is fun too! You need one of these for each size you want to do and a bottle of mineral oil. 
You will find it hard to use dowels you buy as thread stock because they are not round enough and poorly sized. A dowel sizing plate can help but not if the dowel is too small. I'm still looking for a good way (that I can afford) to make my own dowels. I've tried just about every method out there, but either the finished cut is too scruffy or one thing or another. Jig failure fatigue. I'll trade you…a set of these in every size available for a Stanley dowel cutter with all the cutters…and then I will supply you with dowels for life. My life. 
The tap is much easier to do because you just drill the hole and run the tap through it.

Hmmm. Hellow, August? Can you make a powered Stanley style dowel cutter with capacity 1/8"- 2"?
DanK


----------



## terryR

That looks great, Dan! I suppose a clock in the center is an obvious choice?

Actually, I'm pretty good at making dowels…except I call them arrowshafts!  Perfectly straight grained wood. Block plane for roughing down to size, then a cow bone with properly sized holes drilled in it, working the wooden shaft into the bone leaves an impression where the wood is too thick, sandpaper to remove excess wood for each successfully smaller hole. 1/2", then 7/16", then 3/8", and finally 5/16" for my final size. Takes forever, but it works. the sandpaper leaves a smooth finish, too. Cough, cough, cough…

Been using the lathe for shorter sections of dowel…less than 12".

EDIT…I just noticed the price of each wood threader kit. Yikes! Need to keep saving pennies for that Bridgeport mill.


----------



## August

Terry & Dan
Driving to Pittsburg to do repo
I'll answer when not driving


----------



## DanKrager

In this weather, Auggie? Big snowmobile? With trailer?

Be safe man.
DanK


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## jmartel

August,

If you're going to pittsburgh, stop and get some food at either a Quaker Steak & Lube for wings, or go to a Primanti Brothers for sandwiches. Amazing food. I miss it after I moved away.


----------



## RPhillips

> Awesome, Mos! I gotta learn to thread wood one o these days…
> 
> I like the simple Ash handle on my leg vise, but THIS looks like a fun build!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> August, can you shape the center hub for me?
> 
> Nope, I don t want it on my bench, but it would look grand mounted on a door!!!
> 
> - terryR


Look like the handwheel on Don's bench


----------



## DLK

I would think Izzy could concoct a contraption with a hand drill and table saw or hand drill and router to turn a good large diameter dowel.


----------



## DanKrager

Remember those boards that were so badly "bent"? Here they are now, ready to go through the thickness planer. Dressed to 1/2" they will get assembled into the tills for under the saw benches. The tops are taking forever in this cold. 
Before:









After:









DanK


----------



## CL810

Wow!


----------



## Brit

That's amazing Dan. Nice save.


----------



## Buckethead

Excellent! Dan, you're quite resourceful.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Small "upgrade" to the leg vise this morning. The only critique I got from ya'll after I installed the new wheel was that I made the handle/knob too long. Well, you knuckleheads were right. It was a knee knocker. 
Before:








After:









I didn't go as small as the BC knob, but I did buy different bolt that shortened it 1 1/2"....and turn a new coco knob. Mucho gooder.


----------



## August

Nice red

Question if you made a slab already and did not make it like the roubou plans where there a cut out for the sliding dovetail for the legs.

What am I looking at for a new base?
The slab I have is 24"x78"x2-3/4" 
I'm trying to maximize my space in my garage.
And I would like to have a leg vise with the bench?


----------



## CL810

August, just attach the legs with the reliable and more then adequate mortise and tenon. You will want to draw bore the joint. That's how the Schwarz did them in his first Workbench book.

Must have coco…....


----------



## terryR

Awesome, Red!
You're going to have a coco shop soon!


----------



## Iguana

August, I did the same thing with my bench. Just a tenon on the top of the leg going into a blind mortise in the slab. Because my legs are so chunky (5 11/16" square) I used a double tenon. For the front legs, the tenons were parallel to the front edge of the slab, and for the rear tenons I made them perpendicular to the back edge so the slab could expand/contract to the rear.

I didn't drawbore the M/Ts. I was planning on locking the slab in place by using lag bolts through the upper stretchers. But to date, that hasn't been necessary. Gravity and tight joinery hold the slab in place and it does not move.


----------



## August

Thanks mark 
I have to print your blog 
I actually was about you that you did that.
I'm not happy with what I have now.
And never was happy from the begining and now it's kicking everyday.
Thanks man.


----------



## Sunstealer73

Has anyone used cherry as the main wood for their bench? I can get it fairly cheap locally. According to the blue book, cherry is pretty high on the hardness scale, but low on the rigidity one. I'm planning on a Roubo-style, but just don't care for the look of SYP.


----------



## duckmilk

Did you ask your wife before shortening your knob?

Sun, Chris Schwarz did a massive benchtop out of cherry, though his lumber had some issues, I don't think he was overly dissapointed.


----------



## Sunstealer73

I forgot about that bench, he used some slabs he described as "punky" I think.


----------



## richardwootton

I was just about to mention the Schwarz bench with cherry top and cottonwood legs. I think cherry would look sharp for a bench.


----------



## richardwootton

Looking good Red. Is your chop flush with your bench top?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Lawl Duck. I doubt the wife would mind. After everyone gets feeling better at our house, I'll have to shoo the penguins out of our bed



> Has anyone used cherry as the main wood for their bench? I can get it fairly cheap locally. According to the blue book, cherry is pretty high on the hardness scale, but low on the rigidity one. I m planning on a Roubo-style, but just don t care for the look of SYP.
> 
> - Sunstealer73


Scotty used cherry for the legs and such. Cherry would make a fine bench. Rock it.



> Looking good Red. Is your chop flush with your bench top?
> 
> - richardwootton


Yup, just camera angles.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Auggie, the more I think about it, you really should use stub tenons like Mark did if you want to put a leg vise on your bench remod.


----------



## bandit571

Somewhere under that pile









is a workbench…....


----------



## Iguana

Sunstealer, I used cherry for my workbench top (Blog here ) Make the slab and legs thick enough and any species will work well.

I'm not sure I understand the "high in hardness and low on rigidity" comment. Cherry isn't particularly hard, somewhere around soft maple and paper birch on the Janka scale. Most other North American hardwoods are harder. Don't know how the rigidity compares to other hardwoods, but it is hard to imagine being able to apply enough force to cause deflection in a slab over 2" thick.



> Has anyone used cherry as the main wood for their bench? I can get it fairly cheap locally. According to the blue book, cherry is pretty high on the hardness scale, but low on the rigidity one. I m planning on a Roubo-style, but just don t care for the look of SYP.
> 
> - Sunstealer73


----------



## merrill77

> Has anyone used cherry as the main wood for their bench? I can get it fairly cheap locally. According to the blue book, cherry is pretty high on the hardness scale, but low on the rigidity one. I m planning on a Roubo-style, but just don t care for the look of SYP.


Actually, cherry is pretty soft. Softer than maple, cherry, walnut, oak - really most domestic hardwoods that are commercially available are harder than cherry.

That said, I do not feel there is a requirement that a work bench be made from really hard wood. Some (like myself) prefer a softer wood for a bench…if I drop that dovetailed, veneered drawer front that I've spent 4 hours making onto the edge of the bench, I'd rather have the dent in the bench than in my drawer front. Price and quality should, IMO, be the primary requirements. By 'quality', I mean: straight-grained, knot-free and properly acclimated.

Also note that strength (rigidity) is not necessarily related to hardness or density. As an example, Tulipifera (aka tulip poplar or yellow poplar) is slightly stronger (as rated by modulus of elasticity) than cherry, but about half as hard and a good bit lighter.

Chris


----------



## mikelaw

Haven't posted here in several months. Here's some pics of my efforts to build John Tetreault's hybrid Roubo bench as shown in Fine Woodworking back in 2010. I've done a dry fit of the base and it's come out OK. This is my first attempt at timber frame joinery and it's been quite a workout. The base is resting on the bench top. The material is white oak reclaimed from massive twelve foot long, one foot wide, six inch thick timbers I found back in March. The price was right but that was because there were hundreds of nails in it. I had to either pull them out - which I did with most - or chisel around them to create a hole and then hammer them down into the hole so I could plane the surface. Hey, it's a workbench.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Sorry Mike, I don't think that joinery will hold up…...lol. That thing's built like a friggin tank.


----------



## terryR

Yep, that's massive, and beautiful.
Nuthing wrong with that reclaimed oak!
Those nail holes provide instant character.
Nice joinery!


----------



## CL810

Now that's a bench!


----------



## Tugboater78

I ubderstand about the nails.. pain in the ass


----------



## mikelaw

Gotta add my thanks to the people at Timberwolf bandsaw blades. I'm just starting out with my workshop and it became clear from the very beginning how important a good bandsaw would be for this project. I bought one that I found on Craigslist. I decided to put in a new blade straight away. The Timberwolf rep took the time to quiz me on my project and when I mentioned the reclaimed nature of the wood he immediately suggested a 1/2 inch bi-metal blade. So far, that blade has cut through about a half dozen hardened steel, fluted nails. I think these beams were used for concrete form work (just a guess). Thanks to him, I haven't had to find out what happens when a bandsaw blade breaks.


----------



## Buckethead

Awesome bench, and nice shoutout to Timberwolf!

Are the outriggers added as a means of practicing timber joinery? Concern about the benchtop flexing?


----------



## DanKrager

^^Hey AUGUST!

DanK


----------



## mikelaw

Buckethead,

The benchtop is currently 5 1/2 inches thick so, yes, I've got to something to control how much it will flex.

Kidding.

The original plan calls for a 4 inch thick top and, even at that thickness, I can't help but think that the angled supports are purely decorative. I've always been enamored with timber frame joinery and, given the fact that I'll never have the time or money to build a timber frame house, this seemed like the next best thing. I've never given any thought to whether the bench actually needs the supports. I just want to build them. Note, however, that they are lag screwed in place so they can removed if the piece I work on requires access to the underside of the bench (i.e., wrapping a drawer around the top).

The top consists of two one foot wide timbers glued together. I did that part of the project several months ago. At that time I planed it flat. It's now 1/4 inch out. I'm hoping I'll have 5 inches of thickness left at the end of the build.


----------



## richardwootton

Mike that thing is going to be a beast! What kind of hardware are you going to use for the leg vise?


----------



## john2005

BAHEMOTH!!! Nice Mike!


----------



## mikelaw

Richard,

Here is the example in the plan I'm following. It doesn't call for a leg vise but it so happens that I'm about to invest in one anyway. It just seems to me that a leg vise makes more sense when you've built a bench with a co-planar front surface. Anyway, I've considered the Benchcrafted version of the St. Peter's cross and the chain leg vise by Ancora Yacht Service. I think I'm going to use Benchcrafted's leg vise hardware even though it will require a 1 7/16" deep slot cut down the middle of the front left leg to accommodate the track for the cross. This will mean routing out a substantial portion of the double through tenon that you can see in the pictures. Given the fact that the leg is five inches by five inches, however, I don't see a problem structurally. Also, the long stretcher that runs through the leg at in that area is 1 1/2" back so there's wiggle room as far as I can tell. Actually, I was having a very bad time getting the tenon to fit at that joint so, after widening the mortise and trimming the tenon I've actually got about 3/16" between the slot for the hardware and the tenon. I need to purchase the screw next so I can install it before I glue up the leg assemblies (or at least drill the hole). For the tail vise, I'll need to wait a couple more months for enough discretionary income to buy the Lie-Nielsen version.

I'm open to suggestions, at least for the next couple of days. I expect to order the leg vise hardware this weekend.

I forgot to point out one thing that some people may notice. The long stretchers are made from hickory, not white oak like the rest of the bench. Even though I bought a crapload of white oak last March, so much of it was unusable due to nails that couldn't be removed and ineptitude on my part that I had to go to the local lumberyard for those last two pieces. Actually, the two pieces came from a big plank that was designated as "white oak" in a dark back corner of the yard's upper loft. It took one of their guys quite a long time to lug it down to the ground that i didn't have the heart to not buy it at that point. In any event the manager gave me a break on the price and, overall, it still looks sorta, kinda close to the white oak.

I'm guessing the bench will weigh in at around 700 lbs. when done.


----------



## DanKrager

Gentlemen, I have serious question about the long term durability of the "cross". I built a substantial one of wood for a test vise, and realized just how much force is applied to the joints of the cross. I can imagine that those joints would quickly wear (or even distort) given the thousands of pounds of force involved. Then I began to realize what would be involved for repair.

Having done that experiment, I decided that if I go down the leg vise route, I would use the chain. Worst case scenario is replace a pair of rollers and adjust for the tiniest bit of chain wear. I also liked the minimal invasion of wood required.

What has been the experience of the cross owners and the chain owners? It probably hasn't been out long enough to be a good test of longevity yet.
DanK


----------



## CL810

It is surprising how much force there is. We need an engineer to answer this.


----------



## RPhillips

I would imagine that the joint in the criss-cross would fair pretty well. I only has one mechanical joint and only sees a load across one axis, which is the axis that was designed to bare the load. Typically, when stresses are induced to a mechanical joint in more than one direction (or axis), fatigue is compounded resulting in premature failure.

Well, that's the thoughts in my head.  I'd be interested in hearing the results of this too.


----------



## Bigun

Good looking bench Mike. Love the joinery, maybe one day I'll get there. I struggled with the ones on my bench but I'm learning. This bench is surly inspiring.


----------



## john2005

I have the chain and can't say enough good things about it. I think I adjusted it (reached down and turned a nut half turn) after the bearing upgrade, but other than that, absolutely no complaints. I believe it is the most undersold piece of bench hardware. Super simple install and super easy operation. Granted, I don't have the years on my bench yet to tell long term, but so far no complaints!


----------



## DanKrager

Warmed up some today, so I went to the shop and lusted after a big double moxon for laying out these pins. I guess I have one at the bench, sort of, but all those clamps are clumsy. It is nice to have the long, infinitely adjustable deadman to hold the leg assemblies… hmmmmm. 









DanK


----------



## terryR

Already looks nice and tight, Dan!
Now I see why no 1/2 tails in the center…


----------



## DanKrager

Thanks, Terry. I had modified the Sketchup to show this but it was some time later. The latest version of the drawing is downloadable at my blog.
DanK


----------



## mikelaw

After listening to people's comments on leg vise hardware, I sent an e-mail to Jim Ritter at Ancora Yacht Service with some questions on how his stuff would work on my bench given some of its design aspects. Jim gave a call within a couple of hours and we had a very nice and enlightening discussion on my bench and his hardware. Bottom line is that I'll be buying his kit once I've made some measurements on how long the chain will have to be. So, thanks to all here who provide some very worthwhile information on the finer points of bench building.

Still up in the air on the screw and a tail vise but that's another payday from now, anyway.


----------



## August

I guess now I understand the purpose of a deadman???


----------



## Mosquito

Yes you do. Though you may want to get a larger plane, you might be at it for a while with that one lol


----------



## August

Thanks moss 
But I guess I hang in there for a while need to loose some weight lol


----------



## theoldfart

^ Satans spammer


----------



## August

^ exactly


----------



## terryR

> I guess now I understand the purpose of a deadman???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


LOL.
That's a chunker, August! New mantlepiece? Massive leg vise?
Lovely rabbet block…


----------



## JayT

I thinks it's actually just some 2in wide, 4/4 stock and he borrowed Red's bench to make it look bigger. 

OK, August, the real question is how in the world did you get that beast up on the bench and how many chiropractor visits did you have after?


----------



## August

Thanks TerryR 
No it's for bench 
I'm gonna ditch the metal frame.
After watching all you guys
And reading Swartz bench book and dealing with space,
I realize that I'm wrong, with what I did
There's no need to reinvent the wheel.
So I'm making a new base for my bench.
Sucks but the truth shall set me free LOL

I have a 2-1/2 car garage
And everything I have here is huge including my GS and my damn ego.


----------



## August

> I thinks it s actually just some 2in wide, 4/4 stock and he borrowed Red s bench to make it look bigger.
> 
> OK, August, the real question is how in the world did you get that beast up on the bench and how many chiropractor visits did you have after?
> 
> - JayT


Lol 
Your a funny man!!!!!
Here are some more pics


----------



## ToddJB

August Workbench build 2.0 - I like it.

Are you going to have a new release once every year?


----------



## August

^ only Todd 
How are you buddy


----------



## ToddJB

Doing well, Sir. Just pluggin away.


----------



## August

Well all the legs are cut all I need to do now is clean it
I wish I had a rip saw , saw !!! Nahhhh bandsaw is fine


----------



## duckmilk

Mikelaw, I have never heard bad things about Jim's chain kit. Someday when I get my bench built, I will buy one from him.

Auggie, awesome man. Where did you score the lumber?
I thought you were coming to this area soon. Let me know if you do.


----------



## SASmith

Looking good, august.


----------



## Avimaelwoodworking

Keep it up guys


----------



## August

Thanks duck
It's Douglas fir 
It's free from work 
And yes I'm still coming your way.
Thanks again

Thanks smith 
I need to to out this workbench to sleep


----------



## Buckethead

Well Auggie, I for one, will miss the metal bench. That was an epic build we got to witness, and we're all better of for having seen it.


----------



## August

Thanks bucket
I will miss that 875lbs frame damn
Oh well I thought I knew what I was doing well I was wrong
You'll wood head are right up to a point LOL


----------



## Mosquito

Bet the metal bench would make a heck of an assembly bench lol


----------



## ToddJB

> Bet the metal bench would make a heck of an assembly bench lol
> 
> - Mosquito


Or just drop it off in Denver and I'll make it a heck of a welding bench.


----------



## August

Your right moss extremely right
But since my table saw is also being transform
I figure I'll turn the outfeed to a assembly table
Watch a video of downtoearth woodworking in the tube looks cool.

Well Todd 
I do drive out that way.
I can save it and give it to you free????
2guys can take it out of my trailer?
So me and one more guy can do it. Not you but a real guy would work?


----------



## ToddJB

I don't know any real men


----------



## Slyy

Auggie nice to see you building up a solid wood bench, love your hybrid but it'll be fun watching Ya do it again.

That link earlier seems legit, 16,000 free plans? What's not to like, I'm givin' 'em my card info right now!


----------



## August

^^lol
Well damn we have a problem
Well maybe you hold my winch cable?
I'll save it for you .

Well lots of progress for me all legs are square and one end square


















!https://storage.googleapis.com/aws-s3-lumberjocks-com/


----------



## August

Nice sly ok I'll give mine too 
There another one of those guys floating around


----------



## duckmilk

> Well Todd
> 2guys can take it out of my trailer?
> So me and one more guy can do it. Not you but a real guy would work?
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Damn, Todd got taken down. Table has turned!


----------



## Buckethead

Truuuuu^^^


----------



## Slyy

Doug Fir Auggie?

I can get Doug fir very cheap at a local mill/yard been thinking about just doing my build outa that. I realize it's awfully soft but Schwarz doesn't knock too hard in the Blue Book. I've been talking to a guy with a wood mizer about 45mins from me that might be able to sell me red oak at $1.50/bf but I'd have to hand plane it (no power planer at casa Slyy currently) and while that might be fun at first I'm afraid it's get old after a vey short while. Plus I've realized I need a LOT more practice with my hand planes, recently was just messin around with scrap wood and turned a piece into a really great trapezoid…..
AND I've only got a civic and an SUV, no truck so sheet goods/long boards aren't all that economical for me for transport.


----------



## August

Yes sir
I have one more left
It's 6×12x8'
Yeah I know what you mean
Cl108
Recomended for me to buy the blue book 2 days ago.
And I regret using my 4/4 hard maple for my bench.
I wish I save that for a real project but I got way over my head and now
I'm here trying to fix it.

I've been chating with CL108 a lot lately.
And big red and Dank
And they gave me bunch of priceless advice.
And I wish I ask them way before.
Anyway.
After I beat this bench up hopefully my woodworking skills is better than what I know now.
And build my dream bench.


----------



## Slyy

Oh man Auggie, did you already buy a copy? By an unusual set of circumstances I have 2 copies and have been looking to gift one to someone!


----------



## August

Oh damn 
I actually screws twice
I was talking to CL and I bought the download
And it was the red book.
Yes I did bought at Amazon 
Thanks for the offer I'm 2 days short


----------



## Mosquito

Is the red book worth it? I bought the blue book digitally before I built my bench, but never ended up buying the red book. Thinking down the road, if it's worth while. I hope to build a bigger (heavier) bench once I have a better (bigger) space to woodwork in


----------



## Slyy

Yeah wondered same thing. Always thought about picking up a copy of the Red book.


----------



## richardwootton

> Doug Fir Auggie?
> 
> I can get Doug fir very cheap at a local mill/yard been thinking about just doing my build outa that. I realize it s awfully soft but Schwarz doesn t knock too hard in the Blue Book. I ve been talking to a guy with a wood mizer about 45mins from me that might be able to sell me red oak at $1.50/bf but I d have to hand plane it (no power planer at casa Slyy currently) and while that might be fun at first I m afraid it s get old after a vey short while. Plus I ve realized I need a LOT more practice with my hand planes, recently was just messin around with scrap wood and turned a piece into a really great trapezoid…..
> AND I ve only got a civic and an SUV, no truck so sheet goods/long boards aren t all that economical for me for transport.
> 
> - Slyy


Slyy, don't fret the planing by hand. I dimensioned a bit over 120 board feet of 5/4 red oak by hand and it wasn't that big of a deal. Sure, my shoulders, chest, and arms were pretty sore, but for the most part you're lumber will be pretty darn straight and square from the sawyer. I would have used that for my bench build but after I planed all of it I found out it was all beautifully quarter sawn and cabinet grade so I couldn't do it! All of that to say, get the oak! Even though doug fir would make a great bench, for sure. By the way, if you want to part with that blue book I might be able to trade you something for it…


----------



## Tugboater78

I bought the red book on sale a couple years ago, got the digital edition of the blue. Fiance found a bunch of Barnes and Noble giftcards this past weekend, i have the blue book and the new trad woodworker book (have digital ed as well) in the mail. Have always preferred a good book in hand.

Wish weather would stay warm enough for some bench glueups. This is the time of year to get good tight joints cut and installed, before spring and summer humidity kicks in. But alas all on hold, wonder if fiance would let me move the bench materials into the living room?

In meantime im working towards getting dutch toolchest built. Spent part of today making a cheap moxon vice so i can cut the dovetails in the bottom.


----------



## Slyy

Richard I'll send a PM your way


----------



## Hammerthumb

> Thanks duck
> It s Douglas fir
> It s free from work
> And yes I m still coming your way.
> Thanks again
> 
> Thanks smith
> I need to to out this workbench to sleep
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Nothing wrong with doug fir, August.

I had a neighbor that took out a doug fir beam in their house. Got a 4"x13"x24' beam.
I started a bench for my nephew. Think I have enough material with just the beam. Top is 2 pieces - now at 3-3/4×12-3/4×72".
I have my nephew doing all of the scraping of paint, etc. to prep before running them thru my planer. I have done all of the sawing, but he did the jointing with hand planes. Not bad for someone who has never touched a woodworking tool in his life.

Top is glued, legs are cut and jointed. Stretchers will be cut this weekend and we will start to putting things together. I'll try to get some pics this weekend.

By the way, any ensuing Bondo pose will be performed by said nephew.


----------



## Buckethead

Nice, Paul. A full bench from one timber, and the nephew getting the proceeds. Awesome build. Need pics!


----------



## chrisstef

How much overhang from the edge of the leg should one allow for?


----------



## widdle

^ new guy..
Don't want to be nosy…But..can you be more specific ? If you have a picture of a possible bench that one may be trying to re create would help..


----------



## chrisstef

Ohh call it your typical roubo with leg vice / deadman / no crochet and and an end vice of sorts.


----------



## Mosquito

On my workbench, it's about 11" on one end (wagon vise end), and about 3" on the other. Of course, my bench is also just over 4' long, so there's that.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well, roubos are flush on the front, so you must mean on the end. I just made sure I had enough for any end vise. think I'm around 16". Anything under 12" would look a little funny imo. (snicker)


----------



## Hammerthumb

Don't discourage him now boys!!


----------



## widdle

^ nice..
Stef..soo many roubo's have been built and photographed, why not find a pic of one, with the vise set up you want and send the dude a message and pick his brain..


----------



## chrisstef

Yea i was talkin bout the ends. Ive 6'4" in length. Ive kicked around the idea of a twin screw end vice but still undetermined.

Tasty slabs paul.


----------



## widdle

I think you will absolutely be stoked with whatever you commit to on the end vise… commiting seems like a good idea..but ..i dont have a roubo, so, sorry cnt help…bump..


----------



## DanKrager

Hey look! Hammerthumb has a POWER work bench! Wow! 110 or 220?

DanK


----------



## JayT

> Hey look! Hammerthumb has a POWER work bench! Wow! 110 or 220?
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


I was thinking the cord is for those new power clamps. No more hurting your wrist twisting the handles, just push a button to get precise clamping pressure. Digital readout in psi available for an extra charge.


----------



## chrisstef

Do want …


----------



## Buckethead

Stef, I was gonna go wagon or tail vise, but did not allow for it with sufficient overhang (8" is what I went with, iirc) I was stuck with using a face vise, but have no complaints. The addition of a Widdle stick cured the racking problem when using the edge one side of the chop for face planing.

The drawbacks of building on the fly.

The wagon vise you showed has that extra wow feature of being useful for joinery on longer pieces. Mine can too, but not with such a nice bite, and not in the center of the bench. (Less vise contact, and the workpiece sticks past the front or back of the bench if greater than X" wide)


----------



## chrisstef

For me this setup seems to cure a couple of issues. One, being able to stand a piece up and clamp it on the right side of the vice for cutting dovetails and other end grain work. Two, being able to clamp a board flat to work the faces by using dogs.

It looks like a hollow structure to allow the screw to pass through. I think im gonna do some investigating on this get em up. This is Frank Klausz's bench. Early returns say that I can be prone to sagging which I can see.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I wouldn't mind one of those either Stef…..but they are infamous for Dolly Parton syndrome (saggy). It'd be tough to correct that without really nice hardware imo.


----------



## chrisstef

I agree red. Youre gonna have to pay the cost to be the boss to make it right. A couple of parralel rails might do it though? Or shorten the length it can travel?


----------



## widdle

Go for it..if you f it up..no biggie..fill it in with some of reds stock..


----------



## widdle

if you open up the main vise block, wouldn't that do the same as the little return piece at the end ?


----------



## Hammerthumb

> Hey look! Hammerthumb has a POWER work bench! Wow! 110 or 220?
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Dan - Bench is 220. Ain't no wimpy bench!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Paul did I miss sumpin? You got a bench build going?

Stef- dunno. When you figure it out, let us know so we can copy it.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Yeah Red. My nephew wanted a work bench, and I had this big doug fir beam. Now he wants some vices added. He's never done any woodworking, but is now getting interested. Picked up an end vice this morning. Gonna have to order a leg vice though. it is taking up a lot of space in my shop, so I want to turn this one out pretty quickly. By the way, expect a little package next week. Something I been working on in my spare time.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Paul!

I'm sure others saw this, but there is a Lake Erie leg vise kit another LJ has for sale:
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/79977

At $200 your only saving about $30-40 with shipping….. but one could make an offer. It's been posted for a little while.


----------



## Tugboater78

Yeah i talked to him about it, but my budget still wont allow me to jump on it.


> I m sure others saw this, but there is a Lake Erie leg vise kit another LJ has for sale:
> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/79977
> 
> At $200 your only saving about $30-40 with shipping….. but one could make an offer. It s been posted for a little while.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


----------



## WhoMe

August, I have a question about why you are building a new bench. Is your current bench not meeting your needs with all it's additions for woodworking? I'm just curious as I though that was a pretty awesome bench. 
But, from the looks of things, you are already off to a great start on another great bench.


----------



## August

> August, I have a question about why you are building a new bench. Is your current bench not meeting your needs with all it s additions for woodworking? I m just curious as I though that was a pretty awesome bench.
> But, from the looks of things, you are already off to a great start on another great bench.
> 
> - WhoMe


Thanks for asking 
This bench thing was so new to me,
I'm a wanna be woodworker.
So I thought the design I did before was good.
But now I notice I was wrong.
So I'm redoing the whole thing I readymade the top.
I will surely missed the 875lbs frame!!!
Anyway soon as learn more woodworking I will update my bench again LOL
This is what you call lesson learn and a painful lesson.


----------



## Mosquito

That's why I did woodworking for a little over a year with nothing but a folding table and a workmate lol


----------



## widdle

You keep it moving..Good for you Auggie..

going back to stef's pic..Seems like that bolt or lag, would be in the way of clamping..?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That portion of the vise shouldn't be used for clamping, based on what I've read. Likely why there's not a problem fixing a bolthead there. Of course, designs change over time so maybe there are varieties that make it possible.

EDIT: Stef, were you on the thread when I took pictures of the shoulder vise on my dad's cabinetmaker's bench for Al? If you're invested, I can take a few more and post them.


----------



## widdle

Interesting..Shows you what I know…Soo whats the purpose of that portion..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Truthfully, I've wondered the same thing. Purdy to look at, tempting to use, but the stresses of clamping shouldn't go there.

EDIT: Just looked through my pics, can't find the vise close ups I did. Rats.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Some visual clarity here. Pg 44-fwd.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, that's lame. I'd want to clamp stuff there to work on it from the side.

This is why I like a regular vise on the end I guess.


----------



## splatman

August,
Keep your 875-pounder as a secondary bench. Do you have the space for 2 benches?


----------



## Iguana

Don't forget that the other vise on Klausz's bench is the open Scandinavian style. If you need to clamp a board upright, you'd use that one.

Couldn't find a pic of Klausz's front vise, but here's one on Paolini's site in that style:









(Source: http://www.gregorypaolini.com/?page_id=241 )


----------



## ToddJB

Mine has a sliding support there


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Bingo.


----------



## Brit

Talking of Frank Klaus. I you haven't seen the tour of the new workshop he built after he retired, watch this and drool.


----------



## chrisstef

Nice deduction there fellas. If clamping on that portion for working end grain is unattainable im not sure that its really for me. While it looks cool the function just isn't there IMO. That guide does look like it would help out with the sagging all though.

Smit - I probably was around at that point of time but id be damned if I could remember seeing that pic you speak of.

Ive been pondering the layout and I better keep it simple or it will be delayed even further than it all ready has and we/I don't really need that.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Todd's pics tell the story. Same vise design, too!


----------



## chrisstef

Andy - whoa. That shop is like heaven. Actually, scratch the like from that sentence.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Huzzah! Found a pic from the old bench!


----------



## August

Splatman
That's also one of the problem what I have now is to big for my space.
It measure 5×5


----------



## Boatman53

Wow, I finally caught up on over 400 posts. Some good bench building going on. Thanks for the kind words on the chain vise. Never had one fail or returned. I did do a video where I tested one to destruction, or tried to. I was testing aluminum sprockets instead of the bronze. The chop was bowed way out the aluminum sprocket deformed and the bolt axles bent but that was it. I don't know how much force was applied at that time but it was a lot. I'll see if I can find some photos. I have a metal screw from LN and easily develop 1600 pounds at the jaw. I posted photos awhile ago. So the forces on the cross and chain can be quite high.
Keep up the good work. I'll try and stay caught up now.
Jim


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Andy - whoa. That shop is like heaven. Actually, scratch the like from that sentence.
> 
> - chrisstef


Frank totally said the Gramercy saw is for girls (AF).


----------



## terryR

^yeah, I caught that reference this past weekend when I stumbled upon his video!
I happen to like my 'G' saws!!! LOL!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Todd- do Stef a favor, stick a chunk of wood in that pocket on your end vise…. then crank down on it hard as you can. Let us know if you hear anything crack or break and report back. Then Stef will know if he should build that vise or not.

A real LJ would sacrifice his bench for the team.


----------



## DanKrager

Dry fit looking pretty promising. At this point, the bundle of sticks weighs an estimated 60 lbs. maybe more. Tills and handles are next after final assembly which will add quite a bit, but if that becomes a problem, they can be removed…










DanK


----------



## JayT

Lookin' hoss there, Dan.


----------



## jmartel

I should finally have some holdfasts arriving soon. Bought a pair of the Gramercy ones this week since I got tired of having to use clamps to clamp a piece of scrap for a planing stop.


----------



## Slyy

Okay question. I've found a couple sources for lumber from some local mills. Just saw a guy advertising the lowest price at $1/bf for what looks to be red oak, he has it listed as just "oak". He says "rough cut" not kiln dried. It'd be at least 3-4 months before I could get started on a build. If stickered and stacked any reason I couldn't get the lumber and just let it dry/acclimate over that time?


----------



## richardwootton

> Mine has a sliding support there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - ToddJB


Todd I'm so envious of your bench…


----------



## SASmith

Slyy, I would let freshly cut 4/4 oak sit for at least a year if I didn't have a moisture meter. Over double that time for 8/4. Ask him how long it has been cut.


----------



## August

Sly I read somewhere
That if its air dry it's 1 year an inch.
With it being in a temperature control 
I won't know exact details.
But also if your going to rough cut it now,
I would suggest to paint the ends to lessen the cracking ?
I hope Im even near to what you ask? LOL


----------



## richardwootton

> Okay question. I ve found a couple sources for lumber from some local mills. Just saw a guy advertising the lowest price at $1/bf for what looks to be red oak, he has it listed as just "oak". He says "rough cut" not kiln dried. It d be at least 3-4 months before I could get started on a build. If stickered and stacked any reason I couldn t get the lumber and just let it dry/acclimate over that time?
> 
> - Slyy


Jake, 
That might not be long enough for it to be dry enough to start using. It depends on how long it's been drying so far I guess. For a bench top it doesn't have to be super dry because a lot of your strength and stability will come from the laminations. The top will shrink up some and move around on you a bit for the first few years anyway, so it might be worth giving it a shot. I just reflattened my current bench top last night. It's made up of laminated SPF 2×4s and I think they were some where between 15-18 % MC.


----------



## Mykos

I just finished up my new workbench. It's based on the design Roy Underhill made on his show and Steve Branam blogged about

It should allow me to get a lot more woodwork done without leaving home.


----------



## ToddJB

> Todd I m so envious of your bench…
> 
> - richardwootton


Thank Richard, I can only take credit for housing it.


----------



## August

Nice job mykos but I won't call that a workbench if there's no bondo post and especially if it's posted here!!'n

Well finish milling up the new vice chop
3-1/4×8x32


----------



## Buckethead

> I just finished up my new workbench. It s based on the design Roy Underhill made on his show and Steve Branam blogged about
> 
> It should allow me to get a lot more woodwork done without leaving home.
> 
> - Mykos


That's a good looking bench, Mykos! I'd love to see more shots, especially some progress shots.

Also, August mentioned the bondo pose. I think we've used the term enough that it would be a top hit in an image search. IMA find out brb:









Lolollolololo


----------



## Slyy

Thx guys, yeah emailed the guy that has the cheaper stock to see what's up. Even still, might be worth holding on to it at that price and build a "temporary" construction lumber bench now. Would certainly be good practice for a more substantial heirloom type build.

Dan, your Bois'dart is so manly I can't even describe it, 60lbs in that little saw bench is a heck of a deal, you are bossing that thing!

Mykos - Bondo pose it is!

Bucket - I'm trying real hard to figure out what the hell is going on in picture #8…... At a loss for words…..


----------



## August

^^++++10
^+5

Thanks for clarifying that after reading what I type sounded wrong 

Anyway 
Planing endgrain is 2-1/2 a pain
But looks good
Hardmaple
Take note of the knife line

















And this is why I love the leg vise.vise


----------



## Mykos

Here's a bunch of in progress photos for you.
































































It went together pretty quickly and was a fun project. I'd highly recommend it for anybody that needs a bench that can't be a permanent fixture in a room.

Of course if you have a dedicated shop then a bigger and heavier bench is an asset. Though if you're on a budget or you want a bench in a weekend making a non-folding version of the bench would be a thought.

I'll work on getting a 'bondo pose' when I have a willing photographer.


----------



## Tugboater78

A workbench of sorts finished today.


----------



## terryR

Nice looking work, guys!
Gotta love it when Google images brings up LJ photos!


----------



## Mosquito

Good stuff Mykos, I dig it.

Also very nice Tug. A saw bench like that is on my list of shop upgrades


----------



## Buckethead

Thanks for that, Mykos! It's always easier to relate to a build when I see the action. Also, you showed some of the joinery details, which are excellent. Truly a nice piece, and a functional bench. Smacking holdfasts: good stuff.

Tug, your bench is superb! Between yours and dans, I'm feeling the itch to actually clean the shop, and build a saw bench. Yours is a beauty!


----------



## Slyy

Nice Tug! As stated earlier those are on my shirt list, really do dig them better than the Schawrz version.


----------



## August

> Nice looking work, guys!
> Gotta love it when Google images brings up LJ photos!
> 
> 
> - terryR


You just like looking at your hairy legs Terryr lol


----------



## richardwootton

Good work Justin! I'm about 3/4 of the way done with the joinery on my saw bench and I'm already thinking about how I want to build my next one, then possibly the next one…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

LOL. The fact that a google search on "bondo pose" brings up all that glory just made my night.

We've had in interesting impact on the interwebz here.


----------



## Tugboater78

Cut nail usage, how to use…

Nail- grain |

Or

Nail- grain-

I keep getting confused..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

don't let the thick of the nail push apart the grain.

grain: |||||||

nail orientation: |||||||


----------



## woodcox

Lol!
Anybody notice framer Jr showed up his Ol'man in the search?

Stef, I left 12" hangin. My veritas twin screws are 17" long from the flange and I have 4 3/4 of cap and chop. I had to counterbore my legs a little so the vise would close all the way. Weak sauce I know, should have shortened screws some. I use it for the dogs often but rarely does anything find itself betwixt the screws. 2¢


----------



## Slyy

How is no one else freaked out by the wierd pink banana thing on the toilet? I'm gonna have nightmares!


----------



## Tugboater78

> don t let the thick of the nail push apart the grain.
> 
> grain: |||||||
> 
> nail orientation: |||||||
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Thanks smitty, is what i thought, and made sense, but sometimes i let the other part of my brain try to change things..

Tacked a nail in through the dt of each lower stretcher just as extra insurance. Project post tomorrow or next day if i dont get buried in another 12 inches of snow like they predict tomorrow night. may start on my dutch chest in the am. really need to work on workbench.. but.. well mats for it are in the shop that i cant keep heated atm.


----------



## jmartel

Looking good there, Tuggles.


----------



## chrisstef

Much thanks on that info WC. 17" is filed away. I was sketching things out and im thinkin ill leave 8" at the leg vice end of things and 14" down the other end. That would give me 52" from outside of the legs and 42" in between the legs (August).

Whats the spread on the screws for that Veritas twin vice WC?

Edit - nevermind I looked it up. You can go 16 7/8" or 24" OC.


----------



## merrill77

> don t let the thick of the nail push apart the grain.
> 
> grain: |||||||
> 
> nail orientation: |||||||
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Shouldn't that be
nail orientation:-----
?
I guess it depends on what the line signifies - the leading (cutting) edge of the nail, or the top.

Anyways, you want the leading edge of the nail slicing across the grain, not wedging between it. The latter leads to splitting.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I attempted to say the same as you, merrill.


----------



## Mykos

Thanks for the kind words on the bench. I uploaded the Sketchup file to the 3D warehouse if anyone wants to see how it's put together.


----------



## DanKrager

Is this the kind of cut nail being talked about? If so, I'm having trouble reconciling any of the above statements with this picture.








DanK


----------



## Mosquito

Basically, the end is flat, in this case that flat edge is perpendicular to the grain of the wood.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Try again, he said.


----------



## Hammerthumb

So I am shopping for a leg vise for my nephews bench. What are the thoughts on this one? Benchcrafted Classic.










I have never installed a leg vise on a bench. Don't want to get the criss-cross as it would complicate install, and I don't know if my nephew will even stick with woodworking. Any thoughts?


----------



## Tugboater78

Left or right?

Hammerthumb, if you dont know if they will stick with it, the end vice screws from lee valley sould be a better option in my opinion.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Right


----------



## August

> So I am shopping for a leg vise for my nephews bench. What are the thoughts on this one? Benchcrafted Classic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have never installed a leg vise on a bench. Don t want to get the criss-cross as it would complicate install, and I don t know if my nephew will even stick with woodworking. Any thoughts?
> 
> - Hammerthumb


You might want to check the AML THEY HAVE GOOD PRICES


----------



## Hammerthumb

AML?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Oh. August. Whacha got?


----------



## ssnvet

Re. nails… Smitty has it correct


----------



## widdle

Tug..may have been mentioned..A little pilot hole(slightly widened at the top) wouldn't"t hurt..

hammer..That handle has some style for churman..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Paul, I've yet to hear anyone who bought something from BC and regretted it. It really does depend on how much you want to spend…. especially if they're a novice and they might not stick with it.

My leg vise is still the European thread from a $40 LV tail vise screw. I've since put a cast iron wheel on it.

LN used to offer a made in the US option, but I don't see it anymore.

The LV option works just fine as long as you install a bearing or bushing in the leg to offset sag on the thread caused by the weight on the chop. Like this…

http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/40952

^BC does this too, they just use a plastic bushing.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Red. I remember when you made that modification. I might go that route, unless AML has a better solution.


----------



## jmartel

I haven't even seen on in person, Paul, but I gotta say that I really like the look of it.


----------



## Tugboater78

Been meaning to ask, cause im sure i missed it buried in a thread somewhere. How did you get wheel mounted on the LV screw?

Edit: nevermind i see its in with the link you posted.


----------



## chrisstef

Gypsy Ginger Magic ^


----------



## Mosquito

> Gypsy Ginger Magic ^
> 
> - chrisstef


Also known as August? lol


----------



## August

no i did not participate on reds bench wish i did
anyway paul heres what i have in mind
you buy this









then i have this 2 items on my hand and no charge 


















and this 2 item cost way more than the lead screw..
and if you click the link you will see the technical data
my lead screw has a 5 to 1 ratio
so for every pound you aply to the handle its x5 anyway dont want to get to technical but 
i say this thou static load is amazing 36,000 lbs !!!!!
http://www.roton.com/Mating_Components.aspx?family=7061240


----------



## ssnvet

+1 for the pilot hole…. I did my dining room floor with wide Red Oak boards that are face nailed with cut (aka box) nails. I drilled a pilot hole for every one….. other wise, they would split the board…. even when they were not close to side or end edges.


----------



## Hammerthumb

36,000lbs! Could crack a lot of walnuts with that!

Ok. Where do I buy this? And do I get the right hand, or left hand thread? Also, how long should it be?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Almost forgot. What about the handle?


----------



## August

well paul i dont know if its a good news or good thing but the good thing about me machining the end for you is you decide what handle you want,
i dont know how much the benchcrafted is but 
here is your out of pocket that i can see.
you have to buy 2foot because 1foot is not enough. so your looking at $22 per foot so $44 plus shipping,.
thats it,
then hunt ebay or google images for your handle?????
anyway let me know.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Ok. I think I have a source for the Acme. I'll check out handles and get back to you.


----------



## ssnvet

Augie….

You don't need a brass nut. You can get a steel acme hex nut for about $7. Check McMaster-Carr, but I know for a fact that ENCO has them, as I bought a 1-1/4, 5 tpi nut off them a couple weeks ago (I'm recycling an acme rod from the junk pile)

You can then avoid purchasing the flange all together.

A couple different mounting options for the hex nut:

1. Bore the though hole for the acme screw, thread the nut onto the screw and put screw in hole. Transfer nut lines to back side of your leg and chisel out a concentric pocket for the nut.
1a. make the pocket very snug and use a friction fit
1b. use epoxy to keep the nut in the pocket
1c. the hex nut is large enough that you could drill and countersink a couple 3/16 hole at opposing points and then secure it into the pocket with long screws.


----------



## theoldfart

Justin, right. Also use widdles suggestion,it's what the Schwartz did in the class I went to.


----------



## DanKrager

Second dry fit looking pretty good. It ain't furniture. So, waiting for a warm enough day to do the glue up because I don't have a warm spot big enough to put them into. Could be a while. 
















I'm considering getting another set of chisels. I had to resharpen back to 30°, but that's just not sharp enough for softer woods, and the 25° wouldn't hold up for all these cuts. There are quite a few and I give the Stanleys credit for going as far as they did at 25°. 
DanK


----------



## john2005

You're an animal Dan!


----------



## Tugboater78

Dan those are better than my dts.. my dewalt cheapo chisels did alright but i moved up to my Narex and they did a lot better, both need a honing now.

Those are some purty sawbenches, i only made one bench, though planning to make another when i get enough mats, probably half the length, just as a support.

I need to get my pictures uploaded of phone and post a project and or a blog, also need tonpost my cheapo moxon vice i made. Waiting till i make better handles though.


----------



## Hammerthumb

You call that a double stack Dan?

Think you should put an electrical cord on them.


----------



## Tugboater78

thanks for clearing my mind on the cut nail usage everyone.


----------



## DanKrager

+1^ on the cut nail issue. The drawings match what I have been accustomed to, but just could get my head to reconcile the description narrative.

Thanks on the benches. Looking forward to putting them to use in my "upper room", an unfinished room upstairs in my garage. Anybody wanna come help me lug them up there? No stairs yet…a fully housed set in oak is pending there too. Sawmill material is 3 years old and ready to go. 
DanK


----------



## richardwootton

I've got a follow up question with cut nails. What should you do when you are putting joints together with the grain of the two boards is running in different directions? For example, half lap stretchers that will be glued and pegged with cut nails to the legs on my saw bench build.


----------



## Mosquito

Richard, a bradawl. At least that's what I was taught using cut nails to attach moulding to a case.

Dan, I may have missed it at some point, but what are the grooves for on the insides of the tops? Also, if I were close, I'd help get them to the upper room, sounds like an adventure lol


----------



## Iguana

Richard, you're trolling 

Everyone knows that you nail them at 45° in that situation.


----------



## bandit571

Nail them like normal, except you also clinch the nails over when they come through the other side.

Brad Awl works, and so does a Gimlet.


----------



## DanKrager

Mos, the grooves are for a reversible slide in combination handle and "disposable" sawhorse style "riser". See downloadable sketch. They are french dovetails and I'm upset that Smitty wouldn't come over and cut them with his hand plane for me. Probably a good thing…I'd hate to see harm come to that 444 by working in this cantankerous stuff.
I'd sincerely welcome your visit! Planning a trip up your way this summer for brief family reunion. Was teasing my nephews about year round, full time work shoveling snow!
DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hey! Have plane, will travel! Need help with the move, let's plan a day!


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, wish I were closer so I could help (read: play in your shop!)


----------



## Mosquito

I see, thanks for the answer Dan.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Another question about the leg vise: how far down from the top should vise be installed? Bench height will be 33 to 34 inches finished.


----------



## jmartel

You mean to the screw? I think mine is about 10" down.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Yeah - I meant to the screw. Thanks Jmart.


----------



## August

My bench now the center line of the screw to the top of the bench is 9-1/4
But my redo bench I will drop the bench height to 32" 
And Im still going to keep the 9-1/4 screw center line


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks August. That confirms what Jmart said. I'll shoot for about 9-1/2"


----------



## Hammerthumb

By the way August. I have struck out finding any 1-1/2" Acme. Still looking.


----------



## August

Cool make sure you get a good brand because my acme nut is made by roton screw,.
I think that roton has the best price?
They make good screws we use it for CNC machines


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks for that info August. I have them ordered (had to get 2 due to minimum order requirements). So do you have 2 of the nut and flange. And let me know how much money to send.


----------



## August

Paul what do you mean 2 you mean you orderd 24" right?


----------



## richardwootton

> Richard, you re trolling
> 
> Everyone knows that you nail them at 45° in that situation.
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Lol, that thought actually crossed my mind!


----------



## Hammerthumb

No August. I ordered 2 pieces at 24". They had a minimum order that 1 piece did not meet. So, if you have 2 of those flanges, I interested in purchasing both.


----------



## August

Paul ok il pm your my number call me to discus 
I hate to charge people.
Non unless it's BRK


----------



## TheFridge

> Looking good there, Tuggles.
> 
> - jmartel


I wasn't prepared for this. I'm afraid I let out a very unmanly squawk that was similar to a schoolgirl meeting Justin bieber.


----------



## Tugboater78

> Looking good there, Tuggles.
> 
> - jmartel
> 
> I wasn t prepared for this. I m afraid I let out a very unmanly squawk that was similar to a schoolgirl meeting Justin bieber.
> 
> - TheFridge


LOL.. bad thing is that i share first names wih this thing you call a Bieber..


----------



## Hammerthumb

Justin Tuggles?


----------



## TheFridge

A bunch of poplar and and a little red grandis off cuts I picked up from a local cabinet shop that lets me have their scraps. I plan on laminating the hell out of this to make a 2 3/4×30 x 60 workbench top.

Opinions on whether this will have enough mass to stay still?


----------



## woodcox

Fridge, my top is almost those exact dimensions, 60% of which fir. Your top will be plenty stout. Do you have a plan worked out already with all those shorts for laminating?


----------



## widdle

If you could stain that scrap black, and sell it to Red, as cocololo. Then buy some kiln dried twobafurs..Then hit the easy button..


----------



## TheFridge

I mustve left out the fact that I'm a cheap bastard? Yeh I got a plan. Glue the 1×2s to make 1×4s, set up a production shop for the thousands of cuts I'm gonna have to make. Glue it together piece by piece on a waxed piece of ply. Then a router sled all the way.

I've pretty much replaced all the starter tools that I was borrowing, until they were repo'd by a cousin, in the last 5 months. I got a Unisaw, porter cable 15" drill press, dw735, and an old 20" bandsaw. I'm on pretty thin ice with the wifey. She will probably cut my junk off if she sees another lowes receipt. And did I say I'm a cheap bastard?


----------



## widdle

Sounds like a good plan…


----------



## woodcox

Lol! Eunuchs,stef,can build benches too!

Your gonna love some sled time. Hint: get the biggest bowl bit you can spin. Spagnuolo has good sled flattening insight. Even though you are gonna route it, try to keep grain direction in mind when doing your laminations. Overbuild your sled. I used too thin of aluminum angle and my heavy router would deflect it in the center if I wasn't careful. Sacrificial mdf flush strips on front and back edges eliminated any possibility of bit blow out.








Close to an hour of trigger time per side!








On the other side, final pass I was taking 3/8" off at the corner to ensure an absolute flat and equal slab in all directions. Compensating for that with the second setup burned some brain cells I didn't have. 


























Doing both sides I think I lost close to a 1/2" total thickness because of twist. 220 ROS took the mill marks away. Center 22" of my top was a long glue-lam beam I x cut and laminated for width. I then added about 11" of rock maple to the front and back sides including a large apron. Also, don't wait for six months to finally decide on a leg assembly like I did.


----------



## BikerDad

> Doug Fir Auggie?
> 
> I can get Doug fir very cheap at a local mill/yard been thinking about just doing my build outa that. I realize it s awfully soft but Schwarz doesn t knock too hard in the Blue Book….
> - Slyy


Douglas Fir is not soft. It's not hard. It's very hard, and very soft, depending on whether you're attempting to cut/plane/sand/drill earlywood or latewood. It does make a good build, certainly for the base, and it can be used for a top as well.

But it ain't soft.


----------



## August

The more I read about the blue book
The more I wish I had it before I made the top.
It's coming along thou.
The top is 3" hard maple with white oak outline.
And planning to put a 5" apron all around out of white oak also.
The legs will be out of the Douglas fir,.


----------



## mochoa

Hey guys, just checking in to say hello. Has Stef build is bench yet?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Silly question (of course not).


----------



## SASmith

Hey mauricio thanks for your screw blog.
It saved me loads of time.
This one(3") is for an adjustable height stool, but it should be pretty easy to make a vise once I get everything dialed in.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That is impressive work!


----------



## mochoa

Hey Smith that is cool! Great to see that it was of use to you.

those threads are pretty clean, I had to do some sanding on mine after the router work. Also funny you should mention making a stool. I did some searching on that same subject but only got as far as sketching some things out. 
Let me know how it works, it would make one hell of a shop stool.

3"?! Aesthetical Beefiness at its finest! The former owner of my woodcraft has one of those on his French Roubo (front the famous build) and it was pretty Bad AAS.


----------



## SASmith

Thanks guys.
I was happy with how the cheap mlcs bit cut. Some of the junk you see in the bottom of the threads is sawdust.
I need a shop stool that goes down to the height of a 5 gallon bucket and as tall as the screw will allow.
Something like this. Most likely with 3 legs.


----------



## chrisstef

Does thinking about it count for anything? If so, then yes, im in the process of building Maur.

That screw is lookin sweet Scott. Gonna make for a killer shop stool.


----------



## August

Men that thing looks a massive Sifi movie 
Don't know what it is but damn looks nice.
And wood threading is nice
Now in thinking if I want to put metal or wood screw on my new bench?!!!
Anyway wagon vise is looking good for me????


----------



## SASmith

Sweet wagon, august.


----------



## richardwootton

Nice wagon August!


----------



## Buckethead

August, your work always looks so good. You are very exacting.


----------



## August

Thanks ^~^^~^^^
All
I wish I can finish this bench the way I dream about it everynight or should I say everytime I read the blue book and look at images at Google.

Someday when get good at my wood wroking 
I'll make me the French oak roubou


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I spent countless hours with that blue book, August. It's an excellent reference.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Really cool work August!


----------



## August

yes smitty there lots of book out there ,,,


----------



## August

Thanks paul

Ok question
It might to late but I already orderd a 11oz 
Leather can I use leather for the movable jaw?


----------



## CL810

Been gone since the 25th, or 200 posts. Dan, Scott and August are men of action. Hope. Didn't forget anyone.

Party at Dan's on moving day! Do we need to RSVP??


----------



## August

Welcome back Andy

Huh what party Dan??!??


----------



## Boatman53

August how is that wagon vise gonna work? Do you put a plate on top with a dog somehow? I'm having trouble picturing it. 
Jim


----------



## August

It will have dovetail machine brass dogs.
Soon as I finish it I'll post more picture .


----------



## richardwootton

Bah!!! I cut the half lap, for a front stretcher, on one of saw bench legs on the wrong freaking side! I haven't chopped out the waste yet. Remake the leg, or glue in shims and plane flush?


----------



## Tugboater78

> Bah!!! I cut the half lap, for a front stretcher, on one of saw bench legs on the wrong freaking side! I haven t chopped out the waste yet. Remake the leg, or glue in shims and plane flush?
> 
> - richardwootton


Door number 2


----------



## Tugboater78

> Bah!!! I cut the half lap, for a front stretcher, on one of saw bench legs on the wrong freaking side! I haven t chopped out the waste yet. Remake the leg, or glue in shims and plane flush?
> 
> - richardwootton


Door number 2


----------



## Iguana

> Bah!!! I cut the half lap, for a front stretcher, on one of saw bench legs on the wrong freaking side! I haven t chopped out the waste yet. Remake the leg, or glue in shims and plane flush?
> 
> - richardwootton


Door number 2


----------



## BikerDad

> By the way August. I have struck out finding any 1-1/2" Acme. Still looking.
> 
> - Hammerthumb


Did you check with McFadden-Dale on South Decatur? They are a hardware heaven.

http://mcfaddendalehardwarelv.com/


----------



## Hammerthumb

I did. It's around the corner from my office. They didn't have it. I did buy some from the vendor August recommended. It on its way.
You here in Vegas BikerDad? Not very many LJs here that I have found.


----------



## Tugboater78

So i came to the conclusion that itll be some time before i get my oak prepared (removing nails and more) for my bench. So i went and dug through a few stacks of douglas fir at the 2 orange stores that the schwarz most likely goes to. Got enough for a 3" thick top, added to what i already have. And I have enough oak and syp at home for a base. 









Some poplar and cedar too


----------



## Hammerthumb

Now we have 3 Doug Fir benches in progress.


----------



## Tugboater78

My bench is going to be a mutt


----------



## Hammerthumb

So I started M/Ts for the side stretchers


----------



## Hammerthumb

Front stretchers tomorrow.


----------



## August

Nice paul
I haven't made up my mind on what size my stretcher will be.
Mainly because no material
.

Nice job

Question
The fir that you by at Home Depot or lowes or menards

Are those dry enough?
To start milling?
Or I should let sit for some time?
The fir I got was sitting in out warehouse for over 20years???? 
And since I milled it I hasnt move yet.


----------



## Hammerthumb

August - the fir I got came out of a neibors house. About 30 years old. I know that what you would get at the big box store will probably be over 15 percent. If it is for stretchers, it should not matter very much. The tenons might get a little loose as it dries, but the length will not change much.


----------



## August

Thanks paul.
You see I have some hardwood but I hate to use that because it's so hard get them, I bought those about 5 years ago.
And had plan to use them for furniture project.
But by saying that I might have to use some,.
I don't want to deal with my bench for sometime.
Anyway will see.
Nice job on cleaning the mortise!!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Yeah - cleaning the mortise was easier than I thought. The material is so old and dried out that it does not alway give a clean cut. How are you going to attach the stretchers? I'm going to draw bore the sides, but will use barrel nuts and bolts thought the front tenons so the bench can be dis-assembled into the top, sides, and long stretchers.


----------



## August

Well if I'm going to follow the blue book and some other things I read for soft wood,
They recomend a massive dovetail and glue,.
And hard wood pegs????? Not sure
I'm just reading it.
Lots of good advice.
And what ever I do I need to incorporate the sliding dead man.


----------



## August

thought to share this 
shop made bushing for leg vise


----------



## kiefer

August 
What is the material you are milling ?

Klaus


----------



## August

Well I can't answer accurately,.
But the tag was partially rip out.
All was left was delrin/acetal
Don't know exact number
,.
Thanks August


----------



## kiefer

Thanks August 
I will look this up and see if I can find some localy and where I could use it .

Klaus


----------



## August

Klaus how much do you need?


----------



## kiefer

Not sure August it's just one of those materials that look interesting and likely I will find a need for it on a vise quick release mechanism and when the time comes I will contact you to see if you can help me out .

Thanks

Klaus


----------



## August

No problem
If ever I also have some Teflon also
August.


----------



## BikerDad

> I did. It s around the corner from my office. They didn t have it. I did buy some from the vendor August recommended. It on its way.
> You here in Vegas BikerDad? Not very many LJs here that I have found.
> 
> - Hammerthumb


No, not any longer. I lived there for most of my life, moved up here to Utah 3.5 years ago.


----------



## BikerDad

Part #8 of my bench build blog series is up, complete with a PICTURE!!


----------



## stropper

Hi everyone,

My name is Sean and I'm new to this site and new to woodworking, I found this antique woodworking bench on Craigslist and couldn't pass it up. It's a J. Niederer Co. Bench, does anyone know anything about this particular woodworking bench? My plan is to restore it… I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.


----------



## richardwootton

Stropper, that's a sweet old bench! Color me green! Check the top for flat and put it to use…


----------



## Boatman53

Welcome Sropper! That is a nice bench. I wouldn't do much to it but flatten the top. I used to have a vise like that one it was awesome. Is yours a quick release? Mine was but the nut was all stripped out. I have drawings for a new split nut in my file, at the time thirty years ago they were unavailable so I put a hose clamp around the nut. It allowed the vise to work but no longer quick release. 
Jim

Edit. What are the dimensions of the top and base? Thanks


----------



## ToddJB

That bench is so awesome. It looks to be in awesome shape too. I restored an old bench last year and blogged it. Your doesn't need near the amount of work but here's the blog in case you're looking for a few ideas

http://lumberjocks.com/ToddJB/blog/series/7155

Please keep us in the loop on your progress with lots of pictures.

For now you can start by showing us some up close pics of those dogs.


----------



## CL810

Awesome bench stropper! How tight are the joints?


----------



## Slyy

Stropper, awesome vintage bench!!! As others have mentioned: please keep us in the loop, lots of pictures!


----------



## SlimPickins

Those are all nice benches - nice woods, drawers, colors, finishes. My bench sucks, and it's completely covered in stuff that's impossible to figure out what to do with.


----------



## john2005

Stropper, from what I have read those are quite useless. Kind of a base model. I can PM you my address for proper disposal. I wouldn't want your new woodworking experience to be tainted by such hideousness…  Seriously though, thats pretty friggen cool


----------



## chrisstef

Id clean up everything besides the top with some steel wool and diluted murphys oil and have at it Stropper. Then id rename the bench strop-nasty and kick some ass.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sean, as others have said, that is simply an awesome bench. Congrats on the find, indeed!

The clean-up Stef recommends is a good one, here's another. Get some Howard's Beeswas and Orange Oil and wipe down the front and sides to give the wood a drink. Don't apply to the top, though; Stef's approach is excellent fo rht the top. Clean is good, just don't want it all slicky'd up.

The top, if it's reasonably flat, is likely ready to go as-is. If not, I'd suggest using nothing more radical than a scraper to get it in line.

Oh, and what is that handled thing sticking out towards the right end of the benchtop?


----------



## stropper

Thanks Richard!!


----------



## stropper

Boatman, not sure about the quick release, I'm pretty green to all of this but I'm definitely going to find out about that, the top is 5' X 2' not sure about the base.


----------



## Sparks8286

> Those are all nice benches - nice woods, drawers, colors, finishes. My bench sucks, and it s completely covered in stuff that s impossible to figure out what to do with.
> 
> - SlimPickins


Burn it. Make room for a new one.


----------



## stropper

CL810, The joints are pretty good, in some spots there there's a little play..


----------



## stropper

Smitty, that's an old cast iron anvil that the came with the bench, it's all rusted but I'm going to clean up that bad boy as well…


----------



## stropper

Thank you all for you comments and suggestions keep them coming…


----------



## SASmith

I finally got the router bit in so I tried out my nut cutting jig and it works!
I used the jig for cutting the exterior threads to cut the interior threads. So I will have to make a jig for the nuts with more "swing" to make a bigger/usable nut.


----------



## Mosquito

That's awesome Scott!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Wow Scott. That's really cool! What is the depth limit on that?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

No Way!!! That's AWESOME!


----------



## mochoa

That is cool! I've thought of doing this but was intimidated by making my own cutter with the correct geometry. I didn't know they made router bit like that. Very nice!

How do you adjust the router laterally to line it up just rights?


----------



## mochoa

does the same bit cut the screw threads?


----------



## SASmith

Thanks guys

This temporary jig has no adjustment. The router holder is just screwed in place. I marked the router bit at just over 1/4" lined it up and screwed it down and got lucky.

I will make a new nut jig with more swing and the ability to adjust so that I can make multiple sizes of nuts (2",2 1/2" and 3") with one jig.

The bit is a Multi-Sided Glue Joint Bit in an extension from mlcs. I have never seen anyone use it like this but it works. Full depth in one pass and clean cuts in red oak even.

These nuts are 1 3/4" thick, it can cut nuts up to 3" thick.


----------



## SASmith

Maur, I used a 1/2" 90 degree v bit to cut the threads on the screws.


----------



## CL810

WOW Scott!


----------



## chrisstef

Bravo Scott, fuggin brav-o!


----------



## mochoa

3" will work. At 2TPI that's 6 threads in the nut which will hold well.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Not that you would need it any deeper, but could you come into the nut from both sides to make it deeper? Might take some aligning on the second side.


----------



## DLK

Which of the 3 Multi-Sided Glue Joint Bits that MCLS sells are you using. #7838, #7839 or #7840. (I guess its #7838, but I'm not completely sure.)


----------



## August

Nice job 
Scott
Very nice
Someday I'll bother you for a screw


----------



## SASmith

I need to try a thicker nut I guess. I thought 1 3/4" would be thick enough but looking at lake erie's site I see they use 2 3/4" thick nuts. I think it will be do-able just haven't tried one that thick yet.


----------



## mochoa

They only limitation of that method is that you cant thread a bench leg directly like my blister producing method. LOL. http://lumberjocks.com/mochoa/blog/32563


----------



## mochoa

I have 1.5" on the red oak nut on my parallel guide. not the same type of force but it has held up just fine.


----------



## SASmith

Combo Prof, I got the bit from amazon (8 sided). And the extension from mlcs.

August, you are first in line for a screw when I get it all dialed in. I still owe you one. 2" or 2 1/2"?


----------



## Mosquito

I'm using a 3/4" thick piece of walnut, with 6TPI on my parallel guide, and it works fine (4.5 teeth in the nut)


----------



## Mosquito

I'd be in for one too, if you're planning on making more ;-)


----------



## SASmith

Maur, I have thought of that. I don't think it will be that hard to make a tap for situations like that. I just wanted a faster option when possible. I timed myself on the last nut (1 3/4"), under 2 minutes. How long do you think it would take with a manual tap? 30 minutes?


----------



## SASmith

For those with a wood screw vise, what size did you go with? 2" or 2 1/2"?
For those without what size would you want?
Trying to see what size I should setup for next.


----------



## DLK

Thanks SASsmith. Looking at you pictures it looks like you may bought a Yonico 15138 Bird's Mouth Glue Joint Router Bit with 8 Sided 1/2-Inch Shank Is that correct?

I'm keenly interested as next week I was planning to take the great adventure into screw and nut making. Are you making your dowel blanks or do you buy them?


----------



## mochoa

Yeah probably something like that. I'll take your method any day.


----------



## Mosquito

I have a 1-1/2" wooden screw, and I picked it because it was the largest wood tap and die set I could buy… 
I'd probably go with 2-1/2" "next time"


----------



## mochoa

I went with 2" because I could buy the dowel for cheap.


----------



## SASmith

Combo Prof, that is the bit.
I am making the dowels myself, but I have another jig for that.


----------



## richardwootton

Put my name on the list too Scott!


----------



## DanKrager

SAS, That is outstanding work. Admirable cleverness.

DanK


----------



## Buckethead

One more for "amazing!" Well done, SAS


----------



## john2005

Thats sweet Scott!


----------



## jmartel

Finally got a pair of holdfasts in the mail today. I can see myself liking having these around.


----------



## Buckethead

SMACK THAT HOLDFAST!

(I love when they say that.)


----------



## jmartel

> SMACK THAT HOLDFAST!
> 
> (I love when they say that.)
> 
> - Buckethead


Oh, I did. Quite a bit last night. And I drilled a couple holes in the legs to hold them. Rapped them in with a mallet, and I can pick up the bench by it.

They need a cleaning though to get all the stuff off of them. It's a good thing I was only testing it on scrap because it got black marks all over the piece.


----------



## Mosquito

I glued a couple pieces of leather to the feet on my holdfasts. I also cleaned them with mineral spirits, and roughed it up with some 40 grit sand paper (going around it, not parallel to it). Worked wonders for me.


----------



## Slyy

Wow SA, my minds blown watching anyone make thier own leg vise hardware! That router but is pretty slick! Just started drawing plans for a buy list for my bench, gonna go with Doug fir as its most bountiful/cheap for me. Still trying to decide on leg hardware, metal or wood. Wood I'd love to make my own but man is it intimidating!


----------



## daddywoofdawg

the kids in the shop, with that wheel will be driving your bench for sure.


----------



## Slyy

Panel: made a few hand sketch ideas for the bench build and have some logistics questions. Cheapest total route for source wood I'm thinking are 10"x2"x12' from lumber yard. It may be possible to get a truck but my current big vehicle is an SUV. Any reason I couldn't cut them down to 6' lengths for transport and then sticker till acclimated? Or is there a reason I should/need sticker then as full size?


----------



## CL810

I can't think of a problem. Just be sure they cut them dead on if you're shooting for a 6' top.


----------



## Slyy

Going 5' to leave wiggle room. Between my chances to screw up and the lumber yard's, figured I can use all the padding possible.









This was my current in class, ignoring lecture hand sketch. Still need to figure out leg vise hardware/parallel guide and deadman but I think this is pretty close to overall final design. Thinking out loud so to speak, breadboard or no breadboard?

Edit: forgot picture… Whoops!
Also 5'9" so might lowerit down some more.


----------



## widdle

I would think if your shooting for 6 ' you would get 14", or 16', to work around defects…Lumber yards, are no more expensive, and you can price out #1 select, #2, ask for free of heart material, dry material and get it delivered…

edit…you out quicked me…


----------



## kiefer

If you like to save some money you can build this for very little and it eliminates a lot of hard ware all you need is inexpensive acme rod and nuts along with some bushings .
The quick release is not necessary just go for a 4 TPI acme rod .
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/116121
If you need help with this just ask !

Klaus


----------



## JerryLH

I have seen amazing work in this thread - I stand in awe to so many. I'm just finishing up on a six month workbench build for my son, (6 months for me anyway). He's not a woodworker so the bench is just a general workbench - I'm almost done with it. I have already, with a small amount of regret, applied a nice coat of Watco Danish Oil. I would much appreciate feedback as to what ya'll think about finishes for your workbenches - (the most favored - especially over WDO). Thanks - I always appreciate others opinions.


----------



## CL810

Jerry, why the regret?


----------



## BurlyBob

Jerry, That looks fantastic. I don't know how you could improve it. Your son should be very thrilled to get that bench.


----------



## Buckethead

It does look fantastic, Jerry. I'm way far from being a finishing guru, so I won't offer advice, but I did put some BLO on some hard maple. Everyone else liked it, but it did not. It turned the maple from a beautiful white to a yellow orange. So I'm thinking I understand your thoughts. Did it darken more than you expected, or is it not shiny enough? What about it do you want to change?

Robert, since you've expressed an interest in pictures, PM me and I'll send you some Jim Dandies.


----------



## JerryLH

It's only a - 'maybe/small' - regret. It's certainly 'not' to speak ill of WDO - WDO really makes the natural colors pop and come to life. I'm a real novice when it comes to more than just piddling in woodwork. Annnd-Since finishing could be considered a career of its own-I find myself, once again, trying to be at least slightly smarter today than I was yesterday concerning a good topcoat for this workbench. - It's been mentioned that adherence of a top coat over WDO 'could/maybe' be an issue. That brings me to this thread where so many have come before me. In short - I have nothing bad to say about WDO - I was just looking at, 'here's where I am, where do I go from here.'
Thanks a lot, I gain a lot of knowledge from this forum.


----------



## BurlyBob

Once again Jerry, that is one really beautiful piece of workmanship! I'm going to build a bench later this summer and I can only hope mine turns out half as good as yours!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I've used it, and continue to apply it, to my workbench without regrets. There's no topcoat needed, just re-apply as you see fit. And, bery nice work on the bench, it's a thing of beauty for sure.


----------



## Tugboater78

3 weeks..

And it REbegins


----------



## CL810

Jerry, I used WDO as well and have been happy with it.


----------



## JerryLH

Thanks to all for the kind words. It's not finished yet - I still need to attach the vises. I definitely plan on putting a few more topcoats of something - so, feedback on that topcoat would still be appreciated.


----------



## john2005

At the risk of sounding dumb(er) what is WDO?


----------



## CL810

Watco's Danish Oil


----------



## john2005

Ahhhh. Thx! Don't know why it didnt click as thats what I use for most of my oil finishes


----------



## Hammerthumb

Got some AML leg vise parts:










The pen gives you and idea of how hefty this is.

Thanks August!


----------



## duckmilk

Gotta love AML, great service and friendly!


----------



## ssnvet

AML?

Linky linky please


----------



## Buckethead

Here you go, Matt!

http://lumberjocks.com/August

He's an LJ.


----------



## Thorreain

I have some final pics of my bench. It's been a couple of months now. It is just awesome!!!


----------



## August

Nice is that the same finish they use on wet bars?
Looks sexy


----------



## Thorreain

A couple more pics.


----------



## CL810

Looks very functional Chris. How much do you use the sliding seat?


----------



## duckmilk

The seat is cool, and I would like to hear how much you use it as well. I assume it is interchangeable with the deadman?
I'm also curious about the large square dog holes(?) in the center. How do you use them?


----------



## jmartel

I'm curious to see if that finish makes clamping stuff difficult or things more likely to slide around on it.


----------



## Thorreain

The seat is a copy of Kiefers. When I built the deadman tracks I allowed for it and the seat to be operated from either side. I use it quite often. The height is the same as a standard bar stool that I have 2 of. I use it a lot when using my dremel tool tree pictured. I also use it when drawing up plans or reading. The epoxy finish is as smooth as glass and already has scratches but that's ok. I like the ability to slide things with my disabled arm it makes moving heavy items around easy. If I want to hold something still I have quite a lot of options. Thanks for the comments and questions, any more just ask away. The square holes are for a plane stop or clamps. It is kind of like a split top but still has a solid table surface. The stop has a Purple Heart decoration on it and it is next to the file chisels in one of the pics. It can be moved to any square hole. 6" C clamps can also be used in these holes. The vise I use the most is the general quick release but the most powerful is the leg vise. The smaller blue holdfasts I use with the battens to keep things from sliding around. I love the epoxy finish, so does every one who sees it. I spent over $3k on wood to build this and I wanted to show it off. I have yet to add the purple deer hide leather to the vise faces. For now I am enjoying the Purple Heart wood until it turns brown. I also have a number of planing jigs and devises that attach to the top or can be inserted into the dog holes. I use this bench for almost everything woodworking. The exception is gluing up messy items, then I go to the production table or table saw, all of which are the same height within half a millimetre. This bench is so awesome! The best feature is being able to work all around it with 4' of clearance, I sometimes have 5 people working at once.


----------



## August

No problem paul 
Thanks duck 
Bucket you always there to the rescue

Anyway I'm actually looking at ebay now 
Trying to get some 1-1/8 acme tap
Have a project in mind working with BRK


----------



## CL810

Chris, sounds like you've built a great bench to meet your needs. Looks very good to me. I saw Keifer's stool and have often thought about it.


----------



## ToddJB

Auggie, your skills and generosity never disappoint

Chris, super cool highly functional bench.


----------



## hari77

Hi,
I am also looking for same kind of benches.
I like these benches. This will help me a lot.
Thank you


----------



## Buckethead

Welcome Harley! I can tell you are going to be a very informative, active participant in this thread.

You might not know, but you can post links in a comment. Like this: http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/workshop/bench/below20xl.html

So if you're needing to get some pennies together, you can spam forums hoping to generate clicks!

So anyhoo, back to thanking me for helping you with the same kind of benches that will help you a lot.

Keep the praise coming!


----------



## JerryLH

Chris that is one beautiful bench - as I have said before - I am in awe of the 'skill' I see here on LJs. Amazing.


> I have some final pics of my bench. It s been a couple of months now. It is just awesome!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Thorreain


----------



## RyanS

Chris, are those files turned into chisels? That's a fine idea.


----------



## Buckethead

Files into chisels? I'm thinking that would be too brittle, but I suppose you could temper them.


----------



## GMatheson

It's been almost a year since I popped on this thread but the last few pages show some amazing looking benches.

The last week I decided to start building a benchcrafted moxon bench. Has a 2" thick beech body with a red oak vice face (all recycled woods). Still needs some shaping but I'm already loving it. It's heavy enough I don't think I even need to clamp it down.


----------



## August

Nice GM 
I need to make one like that 
Very nice


----------



## Thorreain

They are files made into chisels. I used a bench grinder and a tub of water and a tub of cutting oil. They have been in use everyday for thirty years. Handyer than a pocket in yer underwear.


----------



## Slyy

Auggie FTW on the hardware bucket! Swell guy for sure!

Chris, excellent looking bench man!

GM, glad to have you drop in, that moxon is looking great, I bet it'll be nice to cut some DT's in that guy.


----------



## BikerDad

> I have some final pics of my bench. It s been a couple of months now. It is just awesome!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Thorreain


Thorrein, that's an interesting design, looks very flexible. I'm curious though, why does it look like it went to "cheap bar" finishing school?


----------



## TheFridge

I'm sure the cheap bar finishing school comment was supposed to be a compliment or joke, but it was pretty much an epic fail.


----------



## john2005

^+1


----------



## Hammerthumb

I have a lot of the base joinery finished on my nephews bench. Here is a dry fit.



















Today I'll start getting the leg vise hardware installed, form some tenons at the leg tops, rabbet the front and back stretchers for a shelf, and some other miscellaneous details.


----------



## August

Lookng nice paul
I take it the weather by you is nice,.
I can't wait to open up my garage door .
I think my work bench redo is officially on hold.
Back to drawing baord and checking the piggybank.


----------



## Slyy

Shake the piggy well Auggie, hope Ya find what ya need!

Paul, looking mighty fine. Off work early today, heading out to buy some lumber!


----------



## August

Thanks sly 
I'm leaning towards the French oak roubou style?


> Debating about the lenght 8' or 10'


?
Not sure.


----------



## Slyy

8 or 10 FEET? Hast damn Auggie that'll be a beast!

I'm gonna make first more à la David Barron's in his Roubo blog. Using the Blue Book as a rough guide as well. Aiming for about 5' and ~28 deep, 34" height seems okay but gonna leave the legs a little long between stretchers so I can sorter it s bit if need be.


----------



## August

Well sly it's a dream
To be honest I don't really know what I want, I guess it's just a ego thing…
I'm not even good enough to do a simple woodworking project, and I'm wanting a nice bench,
Reading all the blog post from this site ans reading 3 books of workbench makes you wonder.
And charting with BRK AND CL108 
Is fueling me more to dream bigger
...


----------



## kiefer

This little guy showed up yesterday and claims to be a bench dog and I have no doubts because when I look at him closely especially his tail I can see he is a purebred which has been around for many years .
Anyway I think the shape of his tail was the original inspiration for the bench dog .
His name is BENCHY and he will be on the bench full time to keep an eye on things .

Gotta have some fun too.
Also note the little mod I did on my wooden hold fasts with a nut added under the head .
Now the idiot with the #5 steel hammer won't be able to drive the rod through the top !

Klaus


----------



## Hammerthumb

Cool dog Kiefer.

August, I'm sure when you decide what you're building, it will be an epic masterpiece.

I was able to get a few things accomplished today. Leg vise hardware is mostly installed. I put some 3/4×3/4 rabbets in the front and back stretchers for shelving. Beveled the bottoms of the legs. I might head into the shop a little later and draw bore and assemble the left and right sides together. Have to wait on the front and back stretcher assemblies as these will be held together with barrel nuts and bolts, and I found I had run out of steel rod to make them.

I'll try to get a few more pics up after I get them from my nephew. He was the photographer today.


----------



## terryR

Excellent choice on bench dogs!


----------



## Slyy

Just a start, need about two more trips but grabbed only good boards I saw from Home Depot. It begins!








And some stickering material thrown in with it outa the 70% bin.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Cool Jake. Gittonit.

Paul- wish I could shoot out to Vegas and work on that for a weekend with you. Wouldn't that be a hoot;-)


----------



## Hammerthumb

Absolutely Red!

So far my nephew has done a lot of the menial work, but I did let him chop 2 of the mortises. Would not mind an extra experienced hand. It would probably be a little further along.

I'll have pics up in the next few days showing Augusts awesome vise hardware. It is massively impressive!


----------



## john2005

Nice Jake! Excited to see what those boards bring.

Auggie, you go big! Your stuff is amazing and your bench will be too.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Absolutely Red!
> 
> So far my nephew has done a lot of the menial work, but I did let him chop 2 of the mortises. Would not mind an extra experienced hand. It would probably be a little further along.
> 
> I ll have pics up in the next few days showing Augusts awesome vise hardware. It is massively impressive!
> 
> - Hammerthumb


Well Paul, if I get a new office job this year with every weekend off….you never know what crazy stuff we could come up with!

August, I've got an 8' bench, and I must say it's just about right. I can't think of a time when I thought, "if this bench was a little longer, I could do this." Plus, every foot you add to the top makes it more of a beast to build.

Thorreain- I echo the kudos on your fine bench and innovative mind.


----------



## Hammerthumb

As promised, here is a few pics of the leg vise hardware from August.




























At this point, the hardware is mortised into the back of the leg but I have the plate mounting bolts removed. The bushing is mortised and epoxied into the leg front. August was clever enough to make sure the Delrin bushing was slightly tight on the Acme. After it was installed, a little sanding of the bushing made it slide freely through with no play or movement. It's very smooth!

I have the 10" hand wheels ordered and should be here Thursday for a trip to the machine shop with the Acme rod. I'll post more pics when they get here.

Meanwhile, I'll stay busy making some barrel nuts to assemble the legs to front and rear stretchers. The barrel nuts are made of 1" drill rod threaded for 3/8" bolts (rod not yet cut to length).


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Pimp. I really like having that big cast iron wheel.


----------



## Buckethead

Men that is some sexy Auggie hardware!

Also high marks for making your own barrel nuts too, Paul.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Yeah Red. So I can't remember if I mentioned it, but I had to buy 2 acme rods due to a minimum order. So I guess I'll make me a new bench when I'm finished with my nephews. So start planning your trip out here to help.

Thanks Bucket. Was going to buy some, but was at a point on the bench where I was running out of things to do, due to parts on order. They're not that hard to make with just a drill press and a tap, just a little time consuming.


----------



## BikerDad

A quick pair of pics. This is after I finished leveling the bottom side of the endcap. I had deliberately left it slightly oversize in the event my joinery results weren't perfect, which turned out to be the case. The plane is a Veritas Custom Jack. I *LOVE* that plane.

The barrel bolts of the endcap are wearing styrofoam (not the real stuff) bibs to protect them from marauding planes.

In the second pic, you can see the depth of the condor tail sockets. Those were not fun to make, a comedy of errors. The Condor Tails will not be held up as an example of flawless execution, believe you me.

After finishing with the endcap, I proceeded to handplane the bottom of the dog strip and face strip. The face strip was joined with the endcap, but just clamped on otherwise. I have a mess of shavings on the floor of my shop, and am now ready to machine the remainder of the bits necessary installing the Benchcrafted Tail Vise. I would have done it tonite, but it turns out my eeeeeeevil printer at work laid a small shrinkage onto the template, so I'll just reprint tomorrow making sure it doesn't do so.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Are the barrel nuts to hold the end cap?


----------



## BikerDad

> Are the barrel nuts to hold the end cap?
> 
> - Hammerthumb


Yes. 3/8" bolts into 7/8" barrel nuts. The stretchers in the base will be using 1/2" bolts into 1" barrel nuts. These are the Benchcrafted bits.


----------



## terryR

BikerDad, your bench looks fabulous? Purpleheart end caps? Sweet. I'm pretty sure your condor tails will outshine my finger joints! 

What do ya like about the Veritas jack? Looks heavy and well-made from the photos!

Paul, nice work going on! Is that August vise for your nephew's bench? Wow! Lucky fellow!!!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Yeah Terry. This leg vise is going to be awesome!

Nice bench there BikerDad. Never thought of barrel nuts for the end caps. Glad I got a 3ft drill rod, and I haven't got to that part of the build yet.


----------



## GMatheson

Here is my 95% finished moxon.










The beech top and red oak face match perfectly after a few coats of Danish oil. There is enough weight to this beast that I don't think it will need to be clamped down most of the time. I will just put some rubber nonslip on the bottom and that should hold it but for the odd time I need more I can put it between the bench dogs.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice Moxon Greg. How much does it weigh? It really looks heavy.


----------



## SpindleMaker

August McCormick Lehman III: Happy St. Patrick's Day.


----------



## GMatheson

I haven't put it on the scale but I'm guesstimating its between 40-50lbs. I put 25" between the screws and the top is about a foot deep.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Wow Greg. That's a BRK sized Moxon!


----------



## GMatheson

Well I figured i didn't want any limitations with the width when I go to dovetail the side of a case and Big Red is my hero


----------



## Hammerthumb

He's my hero too. But so is August!


----------



## chrisstef

I feel so left out.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Don't feel bad Stef. Here, I got something for ya:


----------



## August

Oh oh ih I feel so welcome

Anyway just the ent doctor now I can hear perfect they put the tube in my ear men.
Only bad thing is now I will hear my wife LOL


----------



## chrisstef

oh for the love of humanity Paul. Croc golf shoes.


----------



## Hammerthumb

> oh for the love of humanity Paul. Croc golf shoes.
> 
> - chrisstef


Guaranteed to add 15 strokes to your score!


----------



## Slyy

Auggie it was nice to have the excuse while you did. Sorry it's gone now, just gonna have to repeat the mantra: love is a beautiful thing.

Ugh, have lumber, have a plan. Now can I implement it?


----------



## Hammerthumb

> Auggie it was nice to have the excuse while you did. Sorry it s gone now, just gonna have to repeat the mantra: love is a beautiful thing.
> 
> Ugh, have lumber, have a plan. Now can I implement it?
> 
> - Slyy


Ready, set, go. The only one you're racing is Stef.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Sorry, not much of a race.

You know that one day without warning, Stef is going to pop a bench out on this thread with no warning. It will be epic!


----------



## richardwootton

Oh no! Crocs have just come back into the thread…no crocs in the shop! As a side note, I am almost finished with my saw bench, pics to follow, however some of the joints have gaps like a fault line. Thank goodness for shims and glue!


----------



## Tugboater78

Sly you can hurry and beat me, its taking me almost as long as stef..


----------



## daddywoofdawg

I want to make a small bench just for small planing(not doors) and maybe some sawing;I have a big plywood covered bench but it wobbles to much when planing so i'll use that one for assembly etc.My question is if I built the top out of 2×4 4"thick and made it say 2' deep,so it would be 2'x4' would it be heavy enough for those chores or should I use some 2"x6" I have some 4×4 oak I can use for legs.


----------



## Mosquito

It might depend on what exactly you're planning on doing on it, but it should be sufficient to get the job done, if you're not doing a ton of heavy planing (I run into issues when I'm doing heavy cross grain planing at my bench).

My bench is red oak, and is 18"x52", with a 7" tool well off the back, splayed legs. Does alright.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dwd, I'd suggest the wobble is joinery problems, not materials used.


----------



## merrill77

DWD - The rigidity, weight and length of the bench are the bigger issues. The top only has to be thick enough to not bow under the downward pressure (which is not a lot when planing). Side-to-side movement is the harder problem, which is where the rigidity and weight come into play.

My bench is only 2 1/2" thick (oak) and it is excellent for planing. At 24×72, it is not large, but I built in a big tool cabinet, so it weighs over 400 lbs with the tools. Doesn't budge when planing.

Also, as you get close to 4" thickness, holdfasts start to be come less effective, so if you plan to use those, keep it in mind.


----------



## jmartel

> Also, as you get close to 4" thickness, holdfasts start to be come less effective, so if you plan to use those, keep it in mind.
> 
> - merrill77


You can countersink the holes, however. A 1-1/4" diameter hole on the underside of the bench going up an inch or two would turn it into an effectively thinner bench but still retain the mass of a 4" bench.


----------



## daddywoofdawg

The main thing I'm think with the tops thickness is weight,I.e the heavier the less likely it with move around during planing or sawing.since I'm in a wheelchair I have to keep the top at or below 29" and probably can't put a toolbox under for extra weight.
I'm also thinking a moxon vise and maybe a tail vice.I don't think I will be using holdfast (a least not planned at this time,but those peg/stops that fit in the holes ,what are they called?)


----------



## merrill77

I think my benchtop is 32", so I don't think that extra 3" would prevent building in a tool cabinet.

But ignoring the above, there are many ways to add weight. E.g. lathe stands that added stability (weight) by turning the bottom stretchers into a box and filling it with a heavy material. Pound for pound, sand is cheaper and denser than wood.

As an example, you can build a very simple but sturdy bench starting with four big legs and then join them with plywood panel sides. This basically makes a plywood box that will be very stiff. And you can throw it together in less than an hour. Add a bottom, fill it with enough heavy stuff so it won't move and then add a top to suit your needs. We like to get very oooh and aaaah about pretty benches here, focusing on exotic wood, vices and joinery. But there are easier and cheaper solutions, particularly for the base, that we should not ignore just because they aren't as aesthetically pleasing to us.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I believe your talking about bench dogs DWD.

Well I just received the hand wheels from Lane Carr:










10" wheels. Nice!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Sorry, that was supposed to be Carr Lane.


----------



## jmartel

Daddy, those pegs/stops are called Bench Dogs.

For weight to make it hard to move, sandbags are cheap and plentiful. You can get a 50lb bag for $4 at a home store. Throw 6 or 8 of those on the bottom shelf and you won't have to worry about it moving.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Daaaaannng Paul. I like that casting.


----------



## jmartel

I have that same rule on my desk here at work, Paul.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I have a real nice aluminum scale, but don't use it anymore. I think its at home in my shop. It was so heavy that it would slide down my plan table (table at an angle). You have one of these Jeff?










Old School!

I do most of my takeoffs using Acrobat, but learned old school.


----------



## Hammerthumb

> Daaaaannng Paul. I like that casting.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Yeah, I wasn't sure cause I ordered it from a picture on their web page. Looked at soo many wheels I got a headache.

Its really nice. August warned me to make sure the hub was going to big enough to get machined to that Acme. Plenty of room for that.


----------



## chrisstef

What really pisses me off is architects that scale drawings in 3/8ths.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I knew you would have one. Put a rubber band around the end before you damage it!


----------



## Hammerthumb

You got that right about the architects. How about where they have 1/4" on some pages, and 3/8" on others. Couldn't use 1/2" to make it easier for the guy trying to figure out what they are saying!


----------



## jmartel

> I have a real nice aluminum scale, but don t use it anymore. I think its at home in my shop. It was so heavy that it would slide down my plan table (table at an angle). You have one of these Jeff?
> 
> - Hammerthumb


No, we do everything on the computer now. If we have to pull old drawings for a boat, it's usually just to verify a hull geometry file so getting the rough numbers off the plastic scale is good enough.

New stuff is all done in 3D in Rhino.


----------



## August

How heavy is the wheel?
Paul


----------



## Hammerthumb

Sorry August, forgot to answer. Wheel is a little over 11lbs.


----------



## August

Damn that's heavy
In thinking about playing with the CNC????
I have lots of brass you think I can do this?


----------



## Slyy

Brass ships wheel? Why not? It'd be a heavy SOB. Flashy as all get out.


----------



## Hammerthumb

You'll have to wear a captains hat while woodworking ;-)


----------



## Hammerthumb

Hay Jake, is your lumber still drying, or have you started your build?


----------



## Slyy

Still acclimating Paul. Anxious to start though! Gonna go pick up a meter Saturday I think just wanna be sure before I start assembling stuff. Also been raining all week long so that's probbaly not helped it any.

Edit: I'd add to Paul, Auggie: think you'll also have to machine a brass pirate leg and parrot as well if you are gonna use that wheel!


----------



## TheFridge

> What really pisses me off is architects that scale drawings in 3/8ths.
> 
> - chrisstef


This makes me think of murder when I have to scale off a hundred lights in a hundred and one places.


----------



## richardwootton

Jake, you'll probably be fine laminating the top while it's still fairly wet. The laminations should keep everything from going all wonky.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Jake - a more accurate way to measure moisture is with an oven and a gram scale. Cut a small piece of wood (1"X1"x1" size is not critical) and weigh it. Then place it in the oven at about 175 deg for an hour or so. Re-weigh and do the math to see how much weight it lost. I use a scale at work that is used for mail. It's accurate, and won't cost you the price of a meter.


----------



## chrisstef

Al friggin Bundy.


----------



## chrisstef

Wrong thread. ^.

My bad.


----------



## lateralus819

August- I'd pay you for two of those LOL. Badass.


----------



## Hammerthumb

> Wrong thread. ^.
> 
> My bad.
> 
> - chrisstef


Hilarious!


----------



## richardwootton

Finished up my first sawbench today. It's about as ugly as home made sin, but it is just a shop tool. Now that I'm done with it I've realized it's a bit too tall and a little too wobbly for ripping long boards. So I'm going to go ahead and shorten the legs on this one and start in on a new one with splayed legs like Chris Shwarz designed. I was just winging it on this one and now I see the err of my ways.


----------



## Buckethead

Fantastic, Richard! I'm needing to see a Bond pose. (Not sure you can do a full bond-o pose on it)


----------



## August

^++++++1010101


----------



## Slyy

Awesome Richard! Gonna crank some of those out along with the bench I hope!


----------



## jmartel

Here you go, Paul. This is what I use instead.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Awesome!

Some of the GCs I have worked with use 3d modeling during construction to track scheduling conflicts. I've never used that type of program as we have never found it necessary.


----------



## jmartel

Rhino is very commonly used in the marine industry. My last job used Solidworks, though. Of course, those boats were about 1/2-1/8 the size of the boats I'm working on now. And of course the ubiquitous AutoCAD is heavily used.

https://www.rhino3d.com/gallery/3 for some examples on the main site.

At some point I'd like to learn CFD programs I think, but that'll have to wait a bit. The above photo is a structural drawing, but I typically just use the hull renderings to get lines and offsets and don't deal with structural work much.


----------



## splatman

Jmartel, on which deck are you going to put your woodshop? Show us by adding WW machines, furniture, and a WB with Auggie brass handwheels. Please!

Re: Al Bundy: Is that sung to the tune of Old McDonald's Farm? Because doing so was a mess. And hookers? Oh, please! We don't use hookers, we use holdfasts!


----------



## Tugboater78

2 more weeks.. but im getting hyped to reload my workbench build. Just hope the weather cooperates. oh and finish my toolchest, but thats a quick finish. 75% done, about a days work to get it usable.


----------



## richardwootton

> Fantastic, Richard! I m needing to see a Bond pose. (Not sure you can do a full bond-o pose on it)
> 
> - Buckethead


Just a fair warning, I'm going to go full spread eagle when I do my Bondo pose . . .


----------



## ToddJB

We were hoping you'd say that.


----------



## Lucasd2002

> Fantastic, Richard! I m needing to see a Bond pose. (Not sure you can do a full bond-o pose on it)
> 
> - Buckethead
> 
> Just a fair warning, I m going to go full spread eagle when I do my Bondo pose . . .
> 
> - richardwootton


My eventual plan involves something more classy, like "Burt Reynolds-on-a-bearskin-rug" style. Although, at this rate, I will be sometime after Stef.


----------



## Tugboater78

Glad i didnt have to try a bondo on my saw bench …


----------



## August

http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf


----------



## chrisstef

Im really hoping for a big mustache with that pose lucas.


----------



## Slyy

^ Lucas, Stef's hoping you look something like this, I hope for your sake you don't:


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Looks good August. Doing a cast iron wheel? Seems that would make it spin better.


----------



## Brent12

This was my bench, or should i saw junk gatherer on sawhorses that took up way too much space, but then i ripped it in half and started a slow painful ongoing battle at some semblance of organization and purpose


----------



## TheFridge

Slowly but surely










1 down, 3 to go.










Discovered how hard it is to cut mortises with harbor freight chisels. (They were free, I swear. Really. They were.) they're pretty much all I have so… Any recommendations for a new set of decent but cheap mortising chisels feel free to let me know.










Pretty rough. Forgot to push the tenon all the way in or not. Still looks like crap, but it's nothing some glue and a sliver or 2 of wood won't fix.


----------



## August

Don't know yet Red
Because now that planning on making a new bench 
I will use the same style 3 spoke handle.
For the one I have now I will make something like the veritas style!.


----------



## richardwootton

Fridge, that really doesn't look too bad. You should see one of the joints on my saw bench (bunch-o-shims-n-glue) and there's still a gap like madonna's grill where a stretcher meets a leg.

When it comes to your questions then I'd suggest the Narex mortise chisels. However, if you just want one good mortise chisel I'd go with the English pig sticker by ray iles. That's what I'm wanting!


----------



## ssnvet

Richard…. If you've never banged on a Sorbey Registered… IMHO, they don't leave much to be desired.


----------



## daddywoofdawg

If your just planning on needing them once in a while the marlpes are pretty good,I bought the wooden box set 1/4"-1 1/4" think it was 40.00,works fine when sharpened,If I was using them everyday maybe better out there,but for a I need a chiles to do … there fine.


----------



## jmartel

I've got 3 of the Narex mortising chisels. They are pretty awesome, actually.


----------



## Lucasd2002

> ^ Lucas, Stef s hoping you look something like this, I hope for your sake you don t:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Slyy


How did you find me? My friend said that picture wouldn't be shared elsewhere. (S)He promised.


----------



## TheFridge

Narex it will be. Thanks for the info fellers.


----------



## TheFridge

The second leg went much better, tight fit and it took a lot less time. I would saved myself a lot of headache if I didn't do through mortises.

And thanks Richard but it's ok. I'll say it. It looks bad but it'll work.


----------



## DLK

> Narex it will be. Thanks for the info fellers.
> 
> - TheFridge


You'll be happy with them. I bought all 6 … only $83. My only complaint is that the handles are pretty ugly in my opinion.


----------



## Slyy

I've got thier bench chisels (7 set) I'd really like to make the mortise chisels my next purchase and soonish since I'm starting the bench build.

Haha Lucas, I was worried it might bear a resemblance, I'd make sure your doors are locked at night. Steffers' a sneaky bastitch.

And I'd agree CP, the handles could do with better looks, a couple of mine come complete with matching tail stock hole left in the handle.


----------



## LucasWoods

I am sure this is a dumb question but why or should the bottom of a bench be flat (or roughly close to flat)

Also if the bottom is left alone will it affect the top in any way as it is being planned?


----------



## TheFridge

I'd think it would be a pain to do any joinery on a surface that isn't at least close to flat.

Hand planed, no. Machine planed , yes. The side opposite the cutter head should be flat. Thickness planers just give a consistent thickness. They don't make a surface flat without a sled.

I hope this is what you were asking.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The underside of a bench top need not be flat. The top reasonably flat.


----------



## Tugboater78

I havent ordered a narex mortise chisel yet.. but plan to get the 1/2 and 1/4 inch sizes at some point. Have a 4 piece bench chisel set of thiers and they are pretty good, 10x better than my cheapo dewalt brand…


----------



## CL810

Lucas, if you have a vise that mounts on the bottom then that area should be flat and co-planar with the top. It will help with the chop meeting flush with the bench. DAMHIK.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I know that some of these pictures might look the same as previous pics, but the prior pictures were just dry assembled. Here is the base nearly complete:










Notice the tenons at the top of the legs.

Sides are draw bored:



















Front and rear stretcher M/Ts are held together with barrel nuts and 3/8"x5-1/2" bolts.










The barrel nuts are made with 1" drill rod. When I got them tightened down, this base is really solid! I planned the bench this way so my nephew could take it apart for transport. Pull the top off, un-screw the bolts. Dis-assembly should only take a few minutes.

I picked up some 8/4 Aldur for the end caps, front, and chop. Guess I'll start working on that next.


----------



## Hammerthumb

By the way Fridge, that is one cool looking bench!


----------



## chrisstef

Are you planning on a sliding deadman Paul? Chain guide for the leg vice? You're motoring right through with this build buddy. The vertical grain on the legs makes me itch to get in gear again on my bench.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Its gonna have a standard parallel guide. It will have a sliding deadman on the front. I am going to put another piece of Aldur on the front stretcher as I did not want to use doug fir for that. I made sure I had enough room with the stretcher placement.

I was really surprised with the solid feel of the base. Having the top on will only stiffen it more. I'm saving all of the hard stuff like sanding for my nephew. ;-)


----------



## chrisstef

Me likey. Looks like a nice stout base.


----------



## Buckethead

Very nice Paul!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Bucket.


----------



## Slyy

Noice Pauly boy!


----------



## TheFridge

> By the way Fridge, that is one cool looking bench!
> 
> - Hammerthumb


Thanks bud. It's coming together slowly but surely.










Three legs down, 1 to go.

Edit: that base looks like a rock, hammer. I might have to steal that barrel nut idea.


----------



## Slyy

Making a double post with the SOTS thread.










Got a couple piles of 1.5"x4.25"x6' lumber! My dads old craftsman 3/4 HP did bog down a bit but some wedges helped as I put it through. Probably the biggest workout that things ever got. Not sure the pa used it much in the 30-ish years he had it. FYI, tables saws scare the hell outa me, not man enough to rip that much by hand yet though.
Now gotta start the glueup, that outa be fun and stressfull.

Edit to add: just noticed that crack in the pic, only been there about 6 months, courtesy of an Oklahoma earthquake!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Right on Jake!


----------



## richardwootton

Jake, I totally get being scared of the TS! Hell, I nearly cut off my damn left thumb with a habdsaw while cutting a small tenon. You're definitely capable of big ol' rips'


----------



## TheFridge

I guess narex changed the handles on me. Cant tell what kind of wood it is but its on the cheap side. Better than plastic though.


----------



## theoldfart

I think it's dyed beech.


----------



## Mosquito

Did your last set of Narex come from Highland Woodworking? I think they have non-died handles.


----------



## DLK

ugly aren't they. I got mine from Lee Valley. I think the bench and paring chisels are non-dyed, but alas the mortise chisels.


----------



## TheFridge

Amazon for me.

Edit: they do need a good sanding. Might be able to pretty em up a bit.


----------



## ssnvet

function over form my friends…. black for firmers and blonde for bench chisels….

sounds like lean manufacturing to me :^p


----------



## Mosquito

Oh, I thought the ones from Lee Valley were all dyed, and the ones from Highland weren't


----------



## DLK

I just looked at the Narex Chisels at Lee Valley. I see that the paring chisels are non-dyed:








But many (perhaps all) of the rest of the Narex Chisels they sell are indeed dyed.


----------



## Slyy

Well a few lessons learned, that I kinda already knew: I need more/better clamps and the more/better money to buy them. Until then I'll do with what I have. My Harbor Freight F-clamps are only so-so. The irwin style ones are total poop but I knew that about right after I bought the only 2 I have. My one Jorgy pipe clamp absolutely blows the others WAY outa the water. I should get some more pipe clamps but need to fund a decent price pipe source (with threads) first. Any way you look at it though, my first glue up went okay I think.


----------



## Airframer

I built my bench with those same clamps and it is still holding together just fine. Lookin' good Jake!


----------



## ToddJB

Jake, did you joint those first or does OK just have to straightest 2Xs in the world? Looks good to me.


----------



## Slyy

Picked through the lots Todd, took about a week to get the ones I do have. Probably been 1:10 good to bad at the BORG. Some mighta had a tiny bit-o-twist but I figured (hoping) that it'll be okay.
Edit to add: not sure at this stage,even if I needed to joint them not sure I have the space to do it.


----------



## Hammerthumb

How many boards are you gluing at a time? Looks good so far Jake.


----------



## dbray45

I bought iron pipe from HD - One 10' length gives your two 5' clamps - or anything in between.


----------



## DLK

> I bought iron pipe from HD - One 10 length gives your two 5 clamps - or anything in between.
> 
> - dbray45


I get mine from true value and they thread all the cut pipes for free. I divided the 10 foot pipe in to thirds to make 3 40 inch pipes.


----------



## Slyy

Paul, meant to do just 6, though got carried away and did 7. Got those together and clamped in just about 5 mins so I figured that was enough with Titebond II open time. Need to start looking for some pipe suppliers


----------



## chrisstef

You can buy threaded black pipe at the depot around here Jake. Run ya about $3 a foot.


----------



## JayT

Jake, another way to cheaply add some clamps is to buy inexpensive aluminum bar clamps from Harbor Freight and stiffen them up by stuffing with wood. Paul Sellers has a blog post about doing that. I have several of these and the process works well. I still reach for my better clamps first, but doing these was a good way to have some extras without spending much.


----------



## theoldfart

^ Borg will thread for free as well


----------



## Slyy

Thx for the info fellers.


----------



## john2005

Heres one of the better prices for the Jorgy F-style Heavy Duty clamps. I mention this cause I use them more than my pipe clamps. Just a thought
http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=cripedistributing&_armrs=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR10.TRC0.A0.H0.XCLAMP.TRS0&_nkw=CLAMP&ghostText=&_sacat=0


----------



## TheFridge

Kinda expected some work. But 2 hours later. Think I wore out my stone.


----------



## Slyy

Fridge, assuming that's one of the Narex? I have the 7 bench set I'd say that most of the backs on mine were ground fairly well and slightly hollow. Now some were done better than others and accordingly took longer and shorter amounts of time to sharpen. Obviously they are less expensive for a reason but I don't think the amount of work on average seems to not be worth the cost, at least for me. Now I've certainly heard both good and bad experiences with the chisels and I would expect some loss in QA for the price point, so not unexpected. I know my set is light years better than the BORG stanley/Kobalt I was using before and for the price I can't complain too much.


----------



## TheFridge

I expected some work but I think I just got a bad one. Nbd.


----------



## TheFridge

We have legs. The birds beak was easy but the through mortises were a pain till the last one. Discovered I should pair to the line instead of chopping out to much waste at once. Good learning though.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Pretty cool looking bench Fridge. With that much lamination in the top, I bet it feels like iron!


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks man,Feels like a rock when I have to flip it.


----------



## Slyy

Was planning out some rough spots and suddenly smelled pine sap. Guess there's a bit of pith in this one. Any reason that'd hurt me? Keep this one or throw it out? The pith will/would be on a face that will be glued.


----------



## JayT

I don't see a problem with keeping it, Jake. Though I'd probably make that edge the bottom, if possible, so that the better wood is on the benchtop.


----------



## Slyy

Thx Jay, it will in fact be towards the bottom, had figured the board oriented that way before I noticed it.


----------



## duckmilk

Jake, I have several 3/4" pipe clamps from HF (Pittsburg I think?). They are very stout and a close comparison to the Pony (Jorgy). I'm sure they could withstand a tornado. At $8.99 on sale now, not a bad deal.

http://www.harborfreight.com/2-piece-3-4-quarter-inch-heavy-duty-cast-iron-pipe-clamp-31255.html

I also use galvanized pipe which has not yet left any staining of the wood.

Fridge, I really like the leg joinery on your bench. Looks nice.


----------



## mikelaw

I posted last month on the base for my bench. I've now purchased the Hovarter VX 20 and Ancora Yacht Service Chain Vise and have finished an initial installation. Further adjustment is needed but, essentially, it all works very well and I'm quite pleased with both products and the highly responsive service that both companies provide. My thanks to Len at Hovarter and Jim at Ancora.


----------



## CL810

Mike, this is I believe, the first post of this setup. Looks not only great but very interesting. Mo' pics please !


----------



## Buckethead

Holy cow! Just the one leg, vise and chop weigh in at 300 pounds! Manly.

Yes, Mike, do please post more pics. We are very voyeuristic in this thread. (And every other thread)


----------



## duckmilk

Now that is impressive Mike. Anxiously awaiting more pics (and maybe a video in operation?)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

A bench not at rest is a good thing.


----------



## mikelaw

Thanks for the compliments. I don't get much time in the shop between job and volunteer commitments. Maybe an hour or so during the week and then maybe five hours on a weekend. Given my rank amateur status, I take an awful lot of time to think things through which very little time for actual production.

If you look carefully you'll see about a 1/4" worth of toe-in from bottom to top. That's what I need to maintain a parallel chop when it's clamped down on a workpiece.

I love these grainy pics from my old cellphone. Hides so many of my mistakes.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Today I got the mortises completed in the top to receive the leg tenons. l fabricated tenons on the ends of the top and got the right side end cap mortised. Still need to do the draw bores. I did get the right side of the face cap dovetailed also. I'll get the left side dovetailed during the week, and should have the leg vise pieces back from the machine shop by the end of the week. I have to work on this outside the shop as I have other unfinished project taking up room. Further fitting of pieces requires re-assembling the base outside, and having a hand to get the top back on. Here is some pictures from today.



















The dovetails fit very well, but done look that way in the picture. They are not tapped all the way in.


----------



## bandit571

Somewhere under all of this stuff









Lurks a workbench…..


----------



## mikelaw

Right side leg assembly, hybrid roubo bench a la John Tetrault's 2010 Fine Woodworking article. Finally glued up. There's no doubt from this pic that this is reclaimed white oak. I count over 20 nail holes in this assembly alone, only some of which are visible here. Plus, there are three squared off holes chiseled out around nails that couldn't be removed so that they could be laid over into the holes and allow for a clear surface across which to plane.

Slow but sure. Next step is the glue-up of the left leg assembly with leg vise hardware.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Outstanding, Mike!


----------



## DanKrager

Mikelaw, that is going to be an AWESOME bench. Those nail holes add a great deal of flavor in this case…interesting history.
DanK


----------



## Buckethead

You too Paul! Workbench thread is throwing down!


----------



## Slyy

Got some progress today after work. Squared up the sides and top on the first section and got the glue up going on the second section, hopefully tomorrow I can mate the two parts together. Also got some twist out of the first part so that hopefully I have less work to do later. There will be two more pieces sandwhiched front and back to do the legs dovetail/mortise à la David Barron style. At least I'll have some semblance of a top done, might actually give me a good surface to work on the legs with!

Hand plane workout:









More glue!:


----------



## Tugboater78

4 more days of boating.. thwn back in the shop.. feels like its been months.

Amazing how 3 weeks out here feels like 3 months while 3 weeks at home feels like 3 days..


----------



## terryR

Strong work, guys! I'm mostly jealous since Spring is keeping me from the shop. 

Paul, breadboard end looks fantastic! Love the DT's. Wow, lotta white vehicles in your neighborhood…the heat?

Mike, all those nail holes are beautiful to me! Re-purposing wood is just plane smart! Heck, your bench already has stories to share.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Ha Terry! Never notice the tendency of white cars before. My truck is silver, but light colored cars do stay cooler in the summer. Hope it warms up for you soon!

Stay safe out there Tug.

Moving right along Slyy! That roller stand must be very sturdy.


----------



## Slyy

Paul - Sturdy as you can imagine, that's what the 40lbs of weights are doing on the legs. My support options were roller/table saw at a reasonable height, or standing stools at 1.5' off the ground. Went with option one. I imagine the bench will rectify that issue when it's done. I'll eventually get around to making some saw benches as well.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Mine was a little easier as it is a 2 piece lamination of a large beam. My nephew jointed the pieces on the ground before glue up. We dressed the bottom of the top a little before mortising the legs into the top. The top has not been flattened yet. I want to get the end caps and face piece all fitted, and then I will let him have at the top while I sit in the shade and watch!


----------



## Boatman53

Someone asked about this a bunch of posts ago. Here is a link to a video of the chain and the Hovarter shaft combined for a quick release leg vise.
I use mine a lot.






Jim


----------



## Buckethead

There's nothing quite like swimming in an ocean of shavings. Looking good, Sly!


----------



## Airframer

I finally have my bench in place and usable in the new shop.. me and Jr made some shavings today finally 










His bench is ready for work too lol.


----------



## mikelaw

Jim, that's the video that caught my attention in the first place. Given my back pain when bending down, it was a good solution for me.


----------



## WillliamMSP

^^^ that little bench is awesome!


----------



## john2005

That Hovarter looks cool!

Jim, you a lefty too?


----------



## duckmilk

Thanks for the video, Jim, looks awesome!


----------



## daddywoofdawg

Saw this thought I'd share really good idea.




I also saw someone use gluelam for their top for those clamp poor.


----------



## DLK

Thanks *daddywoofdawg* for the video. I remember seeing a while back, but I had forgotten about it. Now I have a link to it.


----------



## DLK

Will laminating Douglass Fir and Hard or Soft Maple give me trouble in a workbench build?


----------



## Iguana

Doug Fir sits between hard and soft (bigleaf) maple in terms of expansion coefficients. Reasonably close, so shouldn't be a problem.

What are you thinking? Maple aprons on a DF top?


----------



## Airframer

End of day bench shot for randoms sake..


----------



## DLK

> Doug Fir sits between hard and soft (bigleaf) maple in terms of expansion coefficients. Reasonably close, so shouldn t be a problem.
> 
> What are you thinking? Maple aprons on a DF top?
> 
> - Mark Kornell


I was thinking a top with center DF say 20" to 24" and outer last three runs of maple making 3" of maple on the front and back. So a total top of say 26 to 30 inches. Then finish the legs with maple, walnut, hemlock, or what ever I have or can get cheaply. (maple is pretty easy to get around here.) I don't know what you mean by aprons in the context of a work bench. Soft maple would be red maple here.

Where do I find info/data on expansion coefficients?


----------



## Iguana

In workbench context, apron would mean making the outer strips of a laminated top taller than the middle. Aesthetically, makes the top look thicker than it is. Can save a bit of money, too, in wood costs

All sorts of info on the properties of various wood species can be found at http://www.wood-database.com/


----------



## DLK

Thanks Mark.


----------



## Boatman53

John, no I'm not a lefty. Pretty ambidextrous but definitely a righty.
Jim


----------



## mikelaw

AYS chain leg vise and Hovarter VX 20 combo. Almost there.


----------



## DanKrager

Warm weather and more progress has been made on the saw benches. One is glued up and needs to have the wedges and dovetails trimmed. Note that I actually use the jigs I build…this one was a couple years ago. It is extremely versatile and this operation of trimming is only a small part of what the jig can do. I apologize in advance for not being able to see the bit, but it's in there…!









After:









Rearranged jig for outboard trimming:









Next up is using the shaper to cut the handle pieces.

DanK


----------



## Buckethead

I've been waiting to see these beauties again dan. I guess it's warming up there?

That's a massive st of legs, Mike, and a heap of work put into each piece. It would take me a month just to put those mortises in.

Looking fantastic on both counts, gentlemen.


----------



## Airframer

Workbench in work.. nothin' better..










Lots of nice work being done here fellas. Keep the pics coming!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Working workbench is pretty good, too.


----------



## splatman

Pillow fight in the wood shop?
As far as I know, woodworkers do not stuff their pillows with feathers; they use wood shavings!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Shavings!


----------



## TheFridge

Pillows? Even better. TP.


----------



## bandit571

Shavings on a bench









After all that work to clean it off, too









Have to keep it clean, never know what will land on it..









About every clamp in the shop….


----------



## woodcox

The lighting in your new shop looks a lot better than your old one Eric. Are the floors coated as well?


----------



## Airframer

It is MUCH better in the new shop and yep the floor is epoxy coated


----------



## john2005

I could definitely stand to spend a bit of time watching Dan work.

Definitely looks like a nice improvement on the shop Eric! I like it.


----------



## DanKrager

The bench got a handle and half is coated with Antique Oil, just to show the color difference. The handle is removable (with effort until it dries more) and will re-insert upside down to make a full, level surface. Why? Because it can? It's basically a place to store the handle when upside down. The handle is also a "disposable" so the bench top is "protected" from power saws and makes panel handling easier and raises the work surface--a saw horse.










Next up are the saw tills. 
DanK


----------



## mikelaw

It's 1:00 a.m. Easter morning. The benchtop is now connected to the base. The problem now is that it's too heavy for me to turn it over on my own. The only solution is to get the relatives coming over for Easter dinner to get in the garage with me before they eat (because after they eat they'll all want to take a nap) to help me turn it.

We'll see.

P.S. You're looking at the back side of the bench. Those square holes are where I had to chisel out a hole so that I could lay down an embedded spike that was driven too securely into the wood to be be removed. There's also a square hole seen on one of the legs. All of the bench except for the long stretchers is made from reclaimed oak.


----------



## ToddJB

^ worlds strongest saw horses.

Mike that looks awesome.

You have to be pumped.

Dan, your horses maybe stronger than Mike's but we won't know until you take a comparable pic.

I love the color with the Antique oil. How long will the OO take to naturally turn that beautiful brown?


----------



## DanKrager

Mike, if you intend to use hold downs, now would be a good time to counter bore them! Looks awesome. It surely is a brute!

Comparable pic? Upside down on my other horses? ???? The OO will take minutes to change if I leave it in the sunlight without finish. It will continue to change quickly in strong light no matter what I do, but it hasn't changed much in my shop. Does that tell you anything about that area of my shop?

Happy Easter, y'all.
DanK


----------



## terryR

Dan, the Osage looks fabulous with oil. Of course, fine joinery also adds to the sweetness! Please keep your saw bench in the dark corner.  I keep the few bow blanks I have under our couch, and they are still turning brown…

Mike, that's a strong looking bench…I hope your relatives are in a good mood today!


----------



## JayT

Dan, the saw bench is looking killer. I disagree with Terry, get it out in the sun. Of course I absolutely love the coppery brown of aged Osage.


----------



## mikelaw

Dan, thanks for the reminder on the hold downs. I also have to rout the groove for the sliding deadman. But, geeez, I really want to see it right side up. Guess it's back to delayed gratification.


----------



## CL810

Great work on display Dan & Mike.


----------



## Buckethead

Edit.


----------



## DanKrager

Hey Mike, one of the joys of digital cameras is if you want to see something right side up that is currently upside down (like your bench) then you can either rotate the camera or the picture afterward. Rotate, bro, no delay!

DanK


----------



## mikelaw

The relatives have come through. The bench is upright and the leg vise is attached and working perfectly. Happy Easter!


----------



## Iguana

Looking good, Mike! That is one massive beast. Happy Easter to you, too.


----------



## richardwootton

While on a rust hunt today I stumbled across an old leg vise in the corner of a cluttered flea market booth and it was the first one I'd ever seen in the wild so I thought I'd pick it up if I could get a decent deal on it. I may have over paid at $65, but the big arse cast iron wheel was unique enough for me to splurge a bit.


----------



## JayT

Wicked cool handwheel, Richard!

Considering the "you suck" I just gave you on the HPOYD thread, even if you overpaid (and I don't think you did) you are still on the plus side of the ledger.

Looks like you had an epic rust hunting day.


----------



## Buckethead

Richard, in my opinion that was worth every penny. Spectacular find.


----------



## jmartel

That's a cool wheel for a leg vise. I'd buy it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That wheel is awesome. Seriously awesome.


----------



## CL810

Richard, Man oh man THAT is a leg vise wheel! Truckload of envy coming your way.


----------



## TheFridge

> While on a rust hunt today I stumbled across an old leg vise in the corner of a cluttered flea market booth and it was the first one I d ever seen in the wild so I thought I d pick it up if I could get a decent deal on it. I may have over paid at $65, but the big arse cast iron wheel was unique enough for me to splurge a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - richardwootton


Let me guess Richard. Central station flea market?

Edit: in hot springs (lake Hamilton rental) I think I saw it in a small booth cluttered with a bunch of stuff and they have another booth a couple down that had a bunch of woodies and plow planes. He was closed till Monday. Plan on going back there and to higdon ferry rd flea market. Any other places to hunt down some old tools would be awesome.


----------



## richardwootton

You got it Fridge! There was also a miter box and saw I need to go back and grab (I'm calling dibs by the way!) The Higdon flea market doesn't have much there, but it's worth browsing. Are you in the area for a few days?


----------



## ToddJB

Mike, nice building

Richard, nice buying.


----------



## Boatman53

What Todd said.
I don't need another leg vise but I would have bought that for the wheel without hesitation.
Jim


----------



## TheFridge

Yes till next Friday. I saw the price tag on the vise but didn't see how pretty the hand wheel was. I pretty much stopped at the tag. I did find a good Stanley 5c parts plane for 14$ and about 1sq ft of tanned leather for 5$. I saw you found an infill, did you find it there?

Edit: miter box is all yours bud


----------



## john2005

Possibly the coolest wheel for a vise posted yet!


----------



## Lucasd2002

> The relatives have come through. The bench is upright and the leg vise is attached and working perfectly. Happy Easter!
> 
> - mikelaw


Nice job on the bench. I had a relative helping me lift a jointer onto a mobile stand on Saturday. Tis the season.


----------



## chrisstef

Wootton, you dog, that thing is badass!


----------



## ToddJB

Richard, how's the rest of the hardware on it? Looks like the wood is toast, but is the nut and screw and bottom brace still in reusable order?

That would look great on my bench, ya know… I'm not saying… I'm just saying


----------



## richardwootton

Todd, after the wood gets replaced it seems like everything should work just fine as far as I can tell. It has a metal parallel guide which I think I'll replace with a wooden version.


----------



## mikelaw

Done for bench building for now. Put in the sliding deadman. Tail vise next but not for a while.


----------



## TheFridge

Hey Richard, I went back to central and picked up a rose wood brass and steel square, an old hack saw with wooden tote and a Stanley #3 type 15 sweetheart for 41$. Good pickins for me too.


----------



## Northwest29

> Done for bench building for now. Put in the sliding deadman. Tail vise next but not for a while.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - mikelaw


Beautiful looking bench Mike. I am very jealous, great job! How much do you estimate that it weighs? Looks like it would take 4 men and a small boy to move it. <grin>


----------



## TheFridge

That thing is a beast.


----------



## mikelaw

Fridge, Ron, thanks.

I thought it would end up weighing 600-700 lbs., given the weight of white oak per cubic foot and the general volume of oak used for the bench but I think that's too high. Right now I'd guess 450-500 lbs with another 30-40 lbs once I add the tail vise and some other optional equipment.

Bear in mind that I won't post any real close-ups of the bench due to the glaring mistakes I made almost everywhere. None will affect its ability to serve as a workbench, however. It's been a great learning experience and it's showed how important planning, layout and measuring work is when building just about anything.

Another thing I've learned is how helpful the encouragement of other woodworkers can be as you struggle with projects that force you to improve your skills. So, to all who've offered words of encouragement and positive comments, thanks very much.


----------



## TheFridge

If Andre the giant needs a stout workbench, I'm sending him your way.


----------



## daddywoofdawg

> Done for bench building for now. Put in the sliding deadman. Tail vise next but not for a while.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - mikelaw
> 
> Beautiful looking bench Mike. I am very jealous, great job! How much do you estimate that it weighs? Looks like it would take 4 men and a small boy to move it.
> 
> - Northwest29


He should know how many it takes to move it, he just did the other day! lol


----------



## mikelaw

Given the limited space in my garage shop, just about everything is on wheels. I should also add a set of wheels to the bench. Any recommendations? I saw one system that involved flipping a board with attached wheels under the legs while the bench is lifted but, while I can lift up one end a couple of inches, I can't use one of my feet to flip wheels under the legs at that point.

P.S. Flipping the bench over ended up being pretty easy. The two saw horses it was perched on were moved together and were just a tick narrower than the legs on the bench. My son and I tilted the bench over and we were able to rotate the bench past 90 degrees while still pivoting on the tops of the saw horses. The legs hit the floor at about 65 degrees and from there it was fairly easy to push it upright. The funny part was how the two of us were staring at the situation and seemed to simultaneously come up with the same solution.


----------



## benchbuilder

Hey Richard, if you can get that hand wheel sandblasted, lightly, and powder coated, i believe you will have the coolest, pertties, and just plain best hand wheel ever!!! Great buy, as they say, one mans junk can be one mans gold. Your a rich guy!!


----------



## DLK

*mikelaw* I would use a jack to lift one end and slide or flip the wheels under. This may requires you to also be a little creative on where you place the jack.


----------



## mramseyISU

mikelaw how thick is your top? I'm gathering up some white oak to build a bench myself and I've got enough to do it 3.5" thick right now but I'm thinking about holding out until I get enough wide stuff to make it 4" thick when I'm done.


----------



## mikelaw

mramseyISU, right now the top is about 5 1/2" inches thick. It was 6" thick when I brought it home. I then worked on the surfaces to get the two beams ready for joining. That was about 9 months ago. I just ran my #8 Stanley over it again and I'm guessing I'll to take off at least another 1/4" in spots to get it flat again.

Ask me in 5 years how thick it is. Could be around 4" by that point.


----------



## TheFridge

Gotta give a shout out to Richard. I needed a smoother and he hooked me up with a spare Stanley 4 1/2 he had. And I got to get some good BBQ. Life is good. Thanks bud.


----------



## DanKrager

The little twins did not shy away from the elephant today. Fitting the handle needed a bit of trim on the sliding dovetail and these little dudes worked elegantly. A few strokes and all is smooth as silk. Love it. 









Tomorrow the elephants will go to work holding passage doors for trimming to fit. I'll have some pictures if I can remember.

DanK


----------



## john2005

Sooo….whatchya got goin there Dan?


----------



## Buckethead

That's part of the epic orange Osage saw benches. The handle, if I spot it correctly.


----------



## DanKrager

Yes, it's the handle. I've nicknamed these saw benches "the elephants" because they are close to all I can lift given that I have to stand beside them and lift them high enough to stack, so it must be somewhere 80-100 lbs each. I know the handle by itself weighs almost 15 lbs. The saw benches will be initiated tomorrow when I install three passage doors I made. I'm expecting to use them as door clamps, so there will be pictures. The house is very very old, so there is nothing square. Fun.
DanK


----------



## john2005

That makes sense, but whats the rat maze in the background?

And thats a heavy saw bench!


----------



## Buckethead

IMA chime in again… I'm guessing it's the frame for a torsion box which will become an out feed table or work station.


----------



## DanKrager

Close Bucket. If you look closely in the upper left of the picture you will see a Festool track standing up in the air. You can find in my blog archive on my site how I attach the tracks to the back side of my workbench so they stand up when not used and lay down over the bench to use. My original disposables did not fully support thin and narrow stuff, so I made the grid to hold sheet goods over my bench far enough the blade cannot find the bench. It just lays atop the bench. I've been working on the passage door commission and had to trim the finished doors to size and cut the panels for the interior of the frame. Just hadn't put the grid away yet.

I did finish the door installation today using the saw benches and fully intended to take pictures. Fail. They were totally AWESOME to use. With a door wedged in the 2" middle space, they did not even try to scoot or wiggle when planing the door edge. The door edge was a comfortable height to work on hinge mortices (cut by hand) and lock set installation. Wish I had pictures!

I'm one tired old bugger. Two of the doors were upstairs.

DanK


----------



## Buckethead

Good work, dan! Two sets of hinge mortises by hand? Not quite to jig setup volume, but plenty of handwork. Nice that you had the perfect setup to work them on.

And yes, pics would have been nice, but sometimes the job needs us more than the camera.


----------



## DanKrager

Three, but who's counting? Thanks. I had a Stanley hinge "cutter" that you beat with a hammer and it outlines the hinge mortise to depth. A few stair step chisel cuts and a router plane to clean up made it trivial. The old doors had only two hinges per, so a total of six hinges. I found a Kwikset lock set installation kit for $35 at an antique store not long ago, and it was perfect for drilling out the lock set holes, 2 1/8" knob hole, 7/8" plunger hole and strike plate hole, complete with plate outline "cutter" that doubled also for the plunger strike plate. I started with a 10" brace, but to conserve enough energy to finish the job, ended up putting a 1/2" power drill to the bits. They were actually made for both hand and power by using an adapter for the brace and the 1/2" shafts were three sided for the drill chuck. I'll try to get some pictures of it tomorrow. It was slick.
DanK


----------



## TheFridge

Gettin there


----------



## Buckethead

Looking good, fridge!


----------



## Hammerthumb

That's one cool looking bench Fridge!

Dan - is that grid assembly temporary, or do you store it upright somewhere in the shop? I would like to make something similar but don't have much room to store it.

I have not posted progress on my nephews bench, but it is almost complete. End vise is done, top is flattened. I need to install the chop, and groove the top to receive the deadman. I have been stalled somewhat, as my nephew has been working weekends, and I cannot assemble the bench alone. It's at the point where any more progress will require the bench to be assembled. He is again working this weekend, so I'm not sure if I will be able to work on it. It's a little frustrating.


----------



## richardwootton

> Gettin there
> 
> - TheFridge


Lookin' good Fridge! I actually went rust hunting today with you in mind to find an iron for that 4 1/2 (and anything else I could grab) but got there too late in the day for most of the places to be open. Keep the progress photos comin' brother!


----------



## DanKrager

Nice progress, Fridge! Sweet little bench!

Hammer, yes it just lays there on the bench, and stands up against a wall behind my glue rack. It's very light, being pine with half lap joints. I held the joints together tightly with screws until the glue dried and then removed the screws. (Don't skip any….)

DanK


----------



## JayT

Looks good, Fridge.

Dan, sounds like you need one of these when you wear that grid out.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Dan. I think I'll make 3 smaller ones. Easier to store and will still work for what I want.


----------



## duckmilk

That centipede table looks handy


----------



## john2005

Makes sense. You're a smart guy Dan, gotta hand it to ya.


----------



## DanKrager

Now THAT's a cool idea…the centipede table! Great for the larger pieces for sure.

Here's something that I never ever dreamed I would own because they are SO outrageously expensive…I can afford $35 most times right after payday.


















DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, I have the el cheapo plastic version from Irwin, much prefer yours. Great score.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks fellas. I think this piece is destined to be the leg vise.



















This is after dimensioning. is this just spalting?


----------



## DanKrager

Nope. It's cracked too. 

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The discoloration looks like spalting…I think? The cracks are from improper drying. Not a huge deal for a bench or shop stuff though. I've used stuff like that, just not for furniture.


----------



## TheFridge

> Nope. It s cracked too.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Mighty nice of you to point that out  I actually didn't notice it.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I made some progress on the bench this weekend. I finished the deadman except for the tenon at the top. I need the bench assembled for that measurement.










Then I finished fabricating the chop, and installed the vise screw.


















More to follow.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Parallel guide installed and chop mounted.




























I still have some cleanup work to do, some finish sanding, the mortise in the top for the deadman, and finishing. Oh, bench dog holes. It's mostly complete though.


----------



## Buckethead

My goodness, Paul. Are you going to have the strength to let this beauty go?


----------



## CL810

+1 Paul. Your nephew owes you big time.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I spy with my little eye a LN router plane

+1 on the good work Paul.


----------



## mramseyISU

Fridge I'm going to be making a top like yours. Did you do anything to connect the end grains or are you just relying on the face glue-up?


----------



## TheFridge

Face glue up. I just made sure they were staggered. If I had to do it again, I'd have finger jointed them and glued up a full length layer. I have a bunch of tiny gaps. Even so, there is no give to it.

Edit: a waxed piece of ply with waxed paper on top and a gallon of glue is your best friend.


----------



## mramseyISU

I was thinking a boatload of biscuits might not hurt.


----------



## Hammerthumb

> My goodness, Paul. Are you going to have the strength to let this beauty go?
> 
> - Buckethead


Ha Bucket. I'll be glad to get it out of my workspace.

My nephew will now become a shop apprentice. Hopefully that will help me get some back logged projects completed. He has been working a lot of overtime at his dayjob lately. I would say something to his boss, but I know he needs the money.

Thanks guys. Red - the router is by your recommendation. Don't know why I never had one before.


----------



## TheFridge

> I was thinking a boatload of biscuits might not hurt.
> 
> - mramseyISU


The sad thing is, is that it never crossed my mind.

That leg vise is a beast hammer.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Fantastic Paul.


----------



## Slyy

Wow Paul, I'm super green for your Nephew and his bench, what a great job you're doing!

Making some sawbenches along with the Roubo-ish, figured it'd be good parallel practice.
My work holding process is also a great reminder why I'm building the Roubo-ish in the first place.


----------



## richardwootton

Nice Jake! Are you sawing out through tenons there?


----------



## Slyy

Yeah Richard, the bottom of the legs/risers making this style:









Shows my need of a rabbet/shoulder plane though. Cut 4 of them and they are just slightly tapered. Cleaned them up with chisel but a plane would be MUCH better.


----------



## Lucasd2002

I picked up 180+ bdft of rough red oak on Sunday. It's taunting me every time I walk through the garage. I have visions of David Barron roubo leg joinery and Bob Lang benches dancing in my head.

Also, it's all 4/4. I need to buy stock in Titebond.


----------



## richardwootton

Man that's a stout looking saw bench. I like it! What are the dimension for each top board?


----------



## Slyy

Richard I used tubafors, found some with some good white pine with spalting or beetle kill coloring, think cut the top at 30" long maybe? At school right now (about to start a super boring 5 hour lab) by I'll check when I get home. I know I've got the height at 26" was a comfortable knee height for me.


----------



## Mosquito

*Jake*, I want to build a saw bench like that. I'm not so much a fan of the splayed leg saw bench I have, unless I'm cross cutting off the end of it…

Also, I've been using a new 'trick' to help keep my work bench planted on my hardwood floors during heavy planing. I've already got leather glued to the bottom of the legs, so I just lift up each end, and do a little mist of my sharpening spray bottle under the feet to dampen them slightly. Does wonders to keep the leather nice and grippy. Not perfect, but better.


----------



## WhoMe

Mos, and here I thought you were going to say you used lag bolts to keep things in place… ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

lol that could be fun too


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Deadman + Veritas Holdfast = Sweetness


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ohhh…that's a good idea.


----------



## chrisstef

Achievement unlocked: certified genius ^^


----------



## Buckethead

TIME TO SELL ME A #203 SMITTY


----------



## CL810

Clever man that Smitty!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

And more importantly, the work holding helps with results.


----------



## Airframer

Smitty - is the Veritas similar to this guy? VINTAGE RECORD 145 BENCH HOLDFAST

I have eyed a couple of those on fleebay but am hesitant to pull the trigger.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I would guess it's similar. Not sure if it's a true 3/4" dimension for that shaft though. Don't know what makes me wonder, maybe something I read somewhere?

EDIT: Not directed at anyone, total opinion follows that's not meant to offend!

The wack-a-mole hold fasts are great, lots of fun. Really. But seriously consider a Veritas. One of the finest pieces of machined cast iron and brass in my shop.


----------



## upchuck

Buckethead-
You mean a #203 like this?
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-stanley-203-bench-dog-bracket-102525821


----------



## Sylvain

Mos, wetting the leather Under the bench legs is a good trick.
I should have thought of it; I have seen this trick in a kitchen TV show: putting a wet towel under a bowl so that it doesn't move or turn while you are whisking.

I have seen the following trick somewhere for drawer planing:


----------



## Mosquito

I've seen that trick too, Sylvain. And part of why my leg vise can open 13" lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Needed the drawer front to extend higher than the benchtop, so I went all Sylvain on it…


----------



## Hammerthumb

Well I got some help to lift the top onto the base so I could get the deadman installed. All I have left is to finish turning the end vise handle, and the wheel knob. Also making a set of bench dogs. Still need to drill dog holes and put some Danish oil on it.


----------



## Mosquito

Lookin' killer Paul!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Mos.


----------



## DanKrager

...and you're giving THIS away? Killer BOSS!

DanK


----------



## Buckethead

Fantastic! I'm so jealous. My bench is getting a bit beaten up, and I like that, but there's nothing like a pristine new bench. Like Dan said, it's hard to believe you're giving this away. It's family though.


----------



## ToddJB

Looks great, Paul!


----------



## DanKrager

Yes, that boy better make you a FANTASTIC casket before you die so you can see it! Never understood sending flowers to dead people.
DanK


----------



## mikelaw

Haven't posted in a few weeks. So, this bench is pretty much done. Not sure where to put the holes for the holdfasts. Open to any ideas or perhaps someone can reference some reading material on the subject.


----------



## Airframer

I wish I had put a bit more thought into where my hold fast holes ended up so here are a few after thoughts I have had on them..

1. Make sure that they line up with the a corresponding dog hole. This would allow the use of a stop strip when planing wide items. Mine do not line up like that and I have to get creative if I need to make a wide stop of some kind.

2 Make sure there is overlap of the holdfast arcs (the reach of the holdfast circular to the hole it is in).

3 Try to get as much coverage with said arcs across the bench top as possible.

Just a few of my thoughts. My recommendation would be to cut out a few circles the size of the swing arcs and play with the placement till you are happy then mark and drill.


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## mikelaw

Eric,

Agreed. I'll need to purchase holdfasts first, then, and determine their reach.


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## Buckethead

Mike, it looks amazing. The rounded top on the wagon vise adds a very nice personal touch, and some grace to this masculine bench. This may be the beefiest bench built in this thread yet.

I'm sure you told us earlier, but I forgot what species you used here.

Also, I see a couple mortises in the front right leg, but I don't understand their function. Can you shed light there too?

And DAT BONDO POSE DOE


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## mikelaw

Buckethead,

Thanks for the compliments. I used a Veritas quick release tail vise but not exactly to their specifications. The jaw is wider since the dog holes were already in place and since I wanted the corresponding dog holes in the jaw centered within the jaw itself. Plus, since the the bench is much thicker than most other applications using this vise. I used a 9" x 1 1/4" board to connect it to the jaw and then glued on the outer portion of the jaw in which the dog holes were cut. The Veritas vise is bolted to the bottom of the bench so the connection to the jaw is very low. Since it already looked funky I decided to double down and make the back of it to resemble an Airstream trailer. That allowed for easier access to the vise handle.

As for wood selection, it ended up being whatever was avialable. The benchtop and legs are white oak reclaimed from a farmer's barn in Pennsylvania. The front and back stretchers and most of the tail vise jaw are hickory. The board connecting the tail vise jaw to the vise itself is red oak as is the apron. Sadly, my inexperience in wood selection caused me to use a defective board for the apron. I found it in a junkyard (while scavenging for other stuff) and thought that it had some unusual striations in it. Turned out to be termite poop which I didn't realize until I used a wire brush on it and all the dust came off. Too late. Already glued on. Dumb, dumb, dumb. At some point I'll have to saw it off and start over because it's turning out to be so structurally unsound. Finally, the sliding deadman is mahogany that I found in the cutoff room at the nearby lumberyard.

The mortises you see are part of the design shown in a Fine Woodworking article from 2010 by John Tetreault on which I based this build. I made some changes but used the timber frame joinery for the base. Of course, you may instead be referring to the rectangular holes that show up randomly all over this bench. Those are excavations I made into the wood so that I could lay down a bunch of spikes that I couldn't extract, thus enabling me to plane the surface.

I like using low quaility pictures taken on my cell phone since it manages to hide most of my mistakes - and there are plenty of them. I'm learning, though.


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## Buckethead

I feel you on the lo res photos, Mike. Thanks to those, I got into a daily top three once!

I am from the Julia Child school of cooking: Make a mistake? Drop a chicken on the floor? Never apologize, no one needs to know.

Bon appetite!


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## terryR

Mike, your bench looks great! Very massive and stout! The vice chop came out sweet.
Sure wish it was standing proud in my shop!


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## mikelaw

TerryR,

Thanks. You bring up an interesting item - getting this thing to "stand" in the shop. Every time I had to turn it over to work on either the base assembly or the vises, I had to wait for two able bodied family members to help me. Even then the sides or the top was never placed on the ground; we'd never be able to pick it back up. We were able to rotate it on and off a pair of low saw horses. This bench would never have been built were it not for those saw horses.


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## Hammerthumb

Gee Mike, your bench makes my nephews bench look like little AFs bench in comparison!

Thanks for the compliments guys. Dan - I like the casket idea, but I have asked to be cremated and have my ashes spread throughout the girls dormitory at San Diego State University.

I would have liked to get more finished on this over the weekend, but it started raining right after the pictures were taken and had to get the thing back indoors. Then the wind started. It's still windy here in Las Vegas this morning. It really bothers my allergies so I watched golf most of the weekend. I might finish up the end vise handle tonight and start on the bench dogs if the wind dies down.

After I get this bench and a couple of other projects out of my shop, I am going to start planning a new bench for myself. Auggie and Red have volunteered to come out here to help with the build. ;-)


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## mikelaw

Paul,

The fit and finish on yours is first rate. I'm always impressed by dovetails (condor tails?) on workbenches. Hope your planned new bench doesn't take as long as mine. I started back in March 2014.


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## August

> Well I got some help to lift the top onto the base so I could get the deadman installed. All I have left is to finish turning the end vise handle, and the wheel knob. Also making a set of bench dogs. Still need to drill dog holes and put some Danish oil on it.
> 
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> Look amazing Paul
> I hope someday I can make one too.
> Very nice
> 
> - Hammerthumb


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## Hammerthumb

Thanks August. I really like how the Auggie leg vice came out. Thanks for the help!


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## bandit571

Nuttin'fahn-ci going on…but need to build a place to sit this thing, besides ON my benchtop









Don't care IF it is a "Benchtop Model", just needs to be off my bench. Maybe four 2×2 x 36" legs, some aprons, a top, and MAYBE a bottom shelf? Have all those parts but the leg parts. Doesn't need to be all that big, just stable. Not too heavy, so I can move it as needed. Narrow enough to stash in-between a couple other stands.

The saw cost me $90 at a garage sale about 1988 or so. Been working almost ever since. Had to do a refurb on it, as it was getting a might grubby around the edges









Somehow, I doubt very much IF they make a riser block for these…...Might try to get another 20-30 years out of it….maybe.


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## Hammerthumb

So here it is:



















So we got the dog holes drilled, bench dogs made, handle for the end vise and knob for the leg vise wheel completed. Forgot a dog hole on the end vise face, and a couple of dogs for the deadman, and have to finish the pin for the parallel guide. I'll complete that tomorrow.

Now, the Bondo pose:










Here is my nephew. I think he is happy with what we accomplished. We will take it to his house tomorrow, and I'll get some room back in my shop.

I have to rest up for the Joe Bonamasa concert tonight. Las Vegas blvd is crazy due to the fight tonight. Glad the concert is close to my house.


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## BigRedKnothead

Awesome Paul. I wish I could have been there when you explained to him why he needed to sit on the bench for a pic…..lawl.


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## DLK

Paul. I really like the look of your bench. Can you remind me what was the wood you chose? (I tried to find the start of your build where you probably mentioned it, but it too difficult.)


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## woodcox

Solid work Paul! Pretty amazing effort in helping him along with his new path. I'm sure he is pretty stoked with his new bench.


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## RPhillips

Nice work Paul… lucky kid…


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## terryR

Looks great, Paul!
What an awesome gift for a young guy…I hope he wears it out!


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## JayT

Great job, Paul.


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## Buckethead

IM ALL BOUT DAT BONDO

A masterpiece, Paul. Well done!


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## Hammerthumb

> Awesome Paul. I wish I could have been there when you explained to him why he needed to sit on the bench for a pic…..lawl.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Yeah Red  It took some explaining and a few pictures from the thread. I don't think he gets it, but didn't have any arguements about climbing on the bench.

Don - the wood was an old beam that came out of the neighbors house. Doug fir. The beam was 4" by 15" by 24ft. When my nephew came over, he asked if I could help him go buy some wood at Home Depot, to make a bench for him. I took him around the side of the shop and said there the wood for your bench. One long beam with 35 years of paint covering it.

Thank guys. This build was fun. More so because I had an apprentice to do the heavy lifting.


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## DLK

Wow, thanks Paul. I like the look of it. I have this stake of Doug fir of 10 foot 2 by 12s, that I reclaimed from a old (non-wood woodworkers) bench. I was thinking of making bench out of it but my wife thinks I should make a farm table. But I also just acquired (stole for $20) 100 bf of oak and ash 4/4 rough planed. The latter would mean a lot of glue up. I guess I'm still shopping.


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## mikelaw

Paul,

That is one sharp looking bench!


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## Slyy

Wow Paul, amazing that you spit that out and it isn't even yours!!!

Been working on the roubo-ish and sawbenches but my stupid self inflicted wound has slowed that way down the last couple weeks!

Paul the Bondo is awesome even if he doesn't know the history!


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## jmartel

Paul, do you want to build me a bench and drop it off next time you're in Seattle? K, thanks.


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## TheFridge

Don't really know how to follow that bench, but I have progress. End vise done, just waiting on some 3/4 acme rod and nuts to come in. Then it's on to the leg vise and deadman.



















My hastily made pine mallet broke a couple times and I need to hammer some dowels. I remembered I had this WW2 era hardhat divers knife. Solid brass bell and has some heft to it. I'd rather use it than let it hang out in the tool box, without tearing it up of course.



















Just noticed the pics don't show it all doweled and cleaned and complete. One day I'll remember to take more pics.

Edit: and its a Kabar. I always wanted one. Or two.


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## mikelaw

After seeing the favorable comments on the Grammercy holdfasts, I bought two of them. The top, as I've shown previously, is 5 1/4" thick and I was concerned about their ability to hold a workpiece on it. Well, they work quite well and without any need to counterbore a wider hole on the underside of the bench.


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## Buckethead

I had that same experience at 4.25" thickness, Mike. There is one dog hole that seemed like it didn't catch as well, so I used a 1/2" router bit with a 1/4" bearing and that made short work of it. I'm not smart enough to know why it was like that. The exit hole from the drill was a bit jagged on that one, but it is on a few others as well. I used a backer board when I drilled, but the tearout happened on a few anyway. Not enough clamps used when I drilled, and the backer board flexed, even though I didn't notice it when drilling.

Fridge, your just about there. Looking good!

I'd like to see some details on your end vise design. Some nice spalty maple (?) there.


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## Hammerthumb

Wow Fridge! I like your style. That is one unique looking bench!

Thanks for the compliments guys!


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## john2005

I dig it Paul! Looks sweet. Gotta be a happy kid there.

Nice work Fridge, comin along strong.


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## Hammerthumb

Thanks John. I got it posted in projects.


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## TheFridge

Thanks yall. Pretty sure it's white oak. It was some dunnage in a train yard that they were paying people to get rid of. Not much too the vise really, I'll post some pics if I remember this evening.


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## ssnvet

That is a very cool knife…. I suspect it's quite rare, as the navy diver community has always been pretty small…and even more so back in the hard hat diver days.


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## mochoa

Paul, and Mike, love both of those benches, great work ya'll.

Have you guys seen this "benchtop lathe"? I love it, I have a lathe but I really want to make one of these. 









http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/bench-top-lathe/#comment-73226


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## JayT

Thanks for the link, Mauricio, I'll have to knock one of those together and try it out. Should only need slight modifications to work with my bench-mainly how to lock down the tailstock.

My "lathe" right now is a drill press attachment, but vertical turning is hard on the neck. Something like that would work perfect in my small shop and be able to easily stored out of the way.


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## DanKrager

I had the privilege of using a foot powered lathe in a friend's workshop during an open house for the day. It was great fun! It was a giant lathe, I think it was about 72" between centers and I was working on some 2" stuff. The foot pedal drove a giant wooden flywheel that actually turned the drive center and that was the key to success. If there would be a way to make an effective flywheel small enough…
DanK


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## Mosquito

That's similar to how I want to make a treadle/foot powered lathe, maybe use a cast iron flywheel instead of a wooden one, to increase weight with out increasing size.

I know spring pole lathes also work, but require more height…


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## DanKrager

Short story about hand powered lathes:
Some years ago I had the privilege of a two week visit to central America where I happened across a "production" shop just south of Tegucigalpa Honduras. There was no electricity to the 20×40ft concrete block shop. When I walked in, one "apprentice" was ripping 2" mahogany with a hand saw. Others were busy crafting parts for chairs and tables using a variety of crude hand tools. The legs and spindles were all turned on a lathe near the back wall. During the detailed guided "tour" by the very friendly craftsmen (they didn't get many visitors who could speak their language) they asked if I wanted to see the lathe work! Well, OF COURSE!. So the guy whistled loudly out the back window (no glass or screens) where a rope formed a continuous loop around a giant 6' flywheel with a large handle then up to the lathe spindle. While we waited for the "motor", he chucked up the next 2" square chair leg. The lathe began to turn very fast and when I looked out again I saw a skeleton with skin turning the wheel with all his might. The turning began by roughing and when the turner was finishing the leg, he deliberately stalled the turn with a quick jab. I thought the old man outside was going to get tangled up in the wheel as everyone inside laughed. He disgustedly went back to his nap in the adjacent house while the "boss" explained that was his grandfather. I kinda felt bad for the old man, but that was their way. Their work was impeccable and the finished product sat proudly in many fine places throughout Honduras and even to the U.S. 
As I was about to leave there was a loud explosion. I panicked a bit because I was by myself within short walking distance of the Nicaraguan border which was often violated in search of Americans to kidnap and an occasional shell lobbed over the border "just for fun" . Everyone ran outside and we quickly learned it was a road crew "clearing the road". It seems that big rocks fall rather frequently upon the main highway and the only way they had to clear them was to blow them over the edge to continue on down hill! What a life.
DanK


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## DLK

*Mos* I think acquiring a treadle sewing machine would make a good start on a lathe. My SWMBO has two and won't let me have one, so sad. But they are easy to come by.


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## Mosquito

Don, I acquired a treadle sewing machine base (no sewing machine, or table, just the cast iron base and treadle), for exactly that reason. I'm not sure it'd work that well with out a secondary flywheel

That is a great story/experience Dan. Sure sounds like a much different way of life


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## TheFridge

For the chop i had 2 pretty pieces that weren't tall enough so I dovetailed them together. I got a new to me plow plane so I rabbeted the both sides of the bottom of the rails. Hence the 2 little walnut squares in the front so It didn't have a gap where the rabbets are. The rabbets weren't really necessary but I thought what the hell and did it anyway. Then put a 1/4" oak dowel through each rail for good measure.


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## ToddJB

Man, you shouldn't have any issues with racking .


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## DLK

> Don, I acquired a treadle sewing machine base (no sewing machine, or table, just the cast iron base and treadle), for exactly that reason. I m not sure it d work that well with out a secondary flywheel
> 
> - Mosquito


I though I had seem it done. But did some checking now and it seems you're right a secondary flywheel would be necessary. However with that because of the way the treadle is hinged it may not work. On the other hand see:
http://www.opensourcemachinetools.org/archive-manuals/wood_lathe-treadle.pdf

Note in particular how the fly-wheel is made.


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## DLK

I don't know how it happens, but yet again a double post.


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## SASmith

Awesome story, dan. Thanks for sharing it.


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## RPhillips

Love that flywheel!

One day I would like to have treadle powered lathe and scroll saw.


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## JayT

I would love a treadle lathe, as well, but just don't have room at the moment. Ran across a vintage Goodell Pratt/Millers Falls treadle lathe on ebay a few months ago and almost bought it, as it would have been a reasonable road trip to pick it up. Probably be kicking myself for a while for not getting it and worrying about space afterwards.


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## Mosquito

that's essentially where I'm at as well Jay. That and the hopeful move towards the end of the year, not sure I want to be adding MORE stuff to move lol


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## TheFridge

I bought 3' of 3/4-6 acme rod and 4 nuts for 28$+12$ from imsrv on eBay. Practically giving it away compared to what I could find out there. The seller on Amazon had it a reasonable price but quit selling it before I could order it. I'm using it for my benches vises. Just fyi in case anyone needs some acme threaded rod.


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## mochoa

I think one of those benchtop bungee lathes would save me some room. I don't turn much, I wonder if it would replace my old craftsmanship lathe for the very little turning I do.


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## Slyy

Haven't posted much in the workbench, mostly cuz it's been hiatus since I stabbed myself in the hand. Did get some time today on my sawbenches though and put together my first set of dovetails, not super pretty but they work. Just take a bit of clean up to fix the gaps etc.


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## rad457

As long as they work! LOL. Better than my first try.


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## Beams37

Fridge: you have one of the coolest and most original benches I have seen here. Great work !!


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## TheFridge

Thanks bud. It's kind of a pain doin it a piece at a time, but it'll work out in the end.


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## jmartel

Anyone else get the newest issue of Woodsmith? They had a pretty neat design for a swivel vise that uses a trailer hitch ball. I could see it being useful, especially if you modify it to use with holdfasts or something else that wouldn't require a permanent mounting. In the article they use a 3/4" bolt to attach to the bench through a doghole, but that would take more time to bolt in than using a pair of holdfasts.


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## woodcox

Is the magazine now called WS Guild edition or is that something different?


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## TheFridge

I have one of these and it is awesome. A little on the small side but it works wonders.


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## duckmilk

> - jmartel


Is that guy using a triangular file on his chain?


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## merrill77

If he is filing down the tops of the depth gauges, then I would hope so…


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## ssnvet

> filing down the tops of the depth gauges


usually called the rakers :^)


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## DanKrager

Matt, on a chain saw crosscut chain there are no rakers. Those are indeed depth gauges to control the size of chip the attached cutter can peel out. Notice that the lead edge is rounded so it can only ride on the previous cut bottom and not catch anything. Makes for a better, smoother pull on the chain and keeps the limited horsepower from bogging down and sticking in the cut. The "raking" action is built into the cutting tooth. Does that make sense?
DanK


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## TheFridge

Getting closer on the end vise. Im not too worried about a quick release just yet. Just trying to make it functional at the moment.

Edit: pics prob help


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## TheFridge




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## daddywoofdawg

Getting closer. Im not too worried about a quick release just yet. Just trying to make it functional at the moment. I said to the wife. lol


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## TheFridge

Hahaha that was pretty good


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## DLK

I'm gathering wood for a workbench build. Maybe you can help me decided what to do. My original plan was to glue up a top of Red Maple to make a 24" by 60" bench, but today I discovered from a little saw mill and wood shop that I can get a slab for around $50 to $100. My choices are Red Maple 3" thick, Oak 5" thick, Ash 5" thick. All air dried for 2 years. He will saw them up square and make the top and bottom parallel. The Red maple is about 5 feet long, the Ash and Oak are over 8 feet. The Ash looks very nice. I can instead get some ash 4" by 8" timbers. The advantage of timbers is that I can lift them more easily. So what should I do? Will ash make a good top? How thick should I go?


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## JayT

Ash makes an excellent workbench. Laminated tops are more stable, but there is something about the look of a slab top that is just cool. If you can figure out how to maneuver and work with it, I'd definitely do a slab. Second choice for me would be three of the 4×8 timbers laminated.

For those hardwoods, anything 3 inches or over should be thick enough, but I'd probably go 4-5 inches for appearance, weight and to give some leeway for flattening.


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## Mosquito

Ash should make a fine bench top, probably no different than Oak, all things considered.

My bench top is 3-1/2" thick, for what it's worth.


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## DLK

Thanks Jay and Mos. I'll get the $100 Ash slab. Price is right. (I'm was a little worried about possible splintering. I have a bunch of 5" by 6" hemlock timbers. Any reason not to use those for the legs? Except for the leg vise leg that is. I could use ash for that. Will ash tap well for a wooden screw?


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## rad457

The bench I am building will be Birch framed with hard Maple including vice faces, approx 3" thick top and 3"x5" legs.
Red maple would make a great bench, Ash is so nice to work with and may be a little harder? Oak splinters too much IMHO.


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## jmartel

2 years air dry probably isn't enough for the 5" slab. Something to consider.


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## JayT

No reason the hemlock won't be fine for the base.

I would agree with jmart about drying, but also don't think it's disastrous for a workbench build if the slab isn't totally dry. Anyone that has built a bench from construction lumber has been working with wood that is probably in the same moisture range as those slabs are now. It does mean you will have to plan the base to allow the top to shrink a bit more, keep an eye out for checks and you will most likely have to reflatten as it dries.


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## CL810

+1 to Jayt and Jmart regarding the slab. Christopher Schwarz has some interesting posts about his slab build with the French oak. Checks developing and shrinkage. But he likes slightly wet wet for a bench build.


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## daddywoofdawg

Every 6 months to a year you may need to plane the top on a slab for a few years do to drying and maybe twisting.so ash would be better than oak just for having to do that.


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## merrill77

I glued-up my top from well-dried 3/4" boards. Multiple glue-ups were a bit time consuming, but that method gave me the opportunity to cut all the dog holes with a dado stack, which saved a bunch of time. My top is still dead flat after 2 years. Personally, I would not have wanted to come back and flatten it even once, so I made my top in two pieces and ran them through my planer. But that's me…everyone has different priorities.

As far as wood, use whatever is cheap, available and well dried, IMO. I used red oak because I already had everything I needed leftover from previous projects. If not for that, red oak would be pretty low on my list, due to the large pores and splintering.


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## DLK

So back from the saw mill here is what I got for $126.










All Ash.


(far left) scraps from trimming.
(left) 7" by 3".
(middle) 3" by 4" by "105", 
(right) 15" by 4" by 105" . (Smaller than I wanted.)

I also have 50 board feet of 1" thick, 8 foot ash boards of various widths.

So now I am in a quandary. Should I just build a narrow one slab bench 15" wide by 105" long or should I glue up and add another 3, 7, or 10 inches? (To make the 7 I'd first laminate on the 7 by 3 a 1" board.)

All suggestions will be considered and are appreciated. (I sort of favor leaving it 15" wide.)

Should I post the steps of the build here or elsewhere. I may let everything rest for 3 weeks before starting.


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## CL810

Don, my current bench is 21.5". My previous bench was around 23". I've never wished it was less but there's been a few times I wished it was a 2-3" deeper. My vote would be to add 7". Having said that, it comes down to personal preference for the kind of work you do.


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## JayT

My bench is 24in wide. I've never really needed it wider and couldn't reach the other side even if it was. It's up against a wall, though. A bench in the middle of a shop could be a different story.

Make the large slab the front of the bench and add whatever to the back to get the depth you want. You don't necessarily need it to be the same thickness front to back-the front is what takes the abuse & pounding. There are lots of examples of workbenches where the front 12 inches or so are thick and the back section is only an inch or so, just enough to support a workpiece.


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## daddywoofdawg

Do you need a bench 105" long?why not cut it in half and make a 52.5" x 30" bench,that's a lot of room.looks like you have some twist and cupping on that board too.or is that the lens?


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## DLK

> Do you need a bench 105" long?why not cut it in half and make a 52.5" x 30" bench,that s a lot of room.looks like you have some twist and cupping on that board too.or is that the lens?
> 
> - daddywoofdawg


I think its the lens. But it is rough and needs some smoothing. It over 4" and I think with smoothing it will come down to around 4".

My current bench is 12" plus an 8" tool well wide and only 5.5 feet long and is up against a wall. That is the same space where the new bench will go . AT 105" I'll need to move some stuff around to have it fit. If it gets over 20" wide I don't think I'll have space between it and the 20" Bandsaw I have.

For any build project. It always takes longest in trying to decide what to do. Thanks for the input. I'm getting ideas and helps to talk things through.


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## TheFridge

I had nuts welded to both ends of the 3' acme rod and then cut it at the maximum length that I could feasibly open the vise to. I had this done at a metal shop I was doing some electrical work at so it was free. They also let me use their huge belt sander to roughly smooth it to a cylindrical shape. That belt sander was a beast. So I took it home and drilled hole a 5/16" hole for some bar stock I'm gonna use as a handle. Same size as the temporary one in the pic but I'm gonna put some lightbulb shaped brass ends on it. Then I polished the end and left the side with a satin look.










I cut a mortise in a chunk of oak and put 6 -1/2" oak dowels through it to hold the nut. Its comin along.

Edit: also added another layer of oak to the vise jaws because I forgot I needed a couple 3/4 dog holes in it and I was worried about it splitting.


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## DLK

My apologies *daddywoofdawg* you are right about the twist and yes there is some cupping. I spent 2.5 hours taking the twist off and smoothing one end. At this rate I think it will take 5 evenings to get one side flat and smooth. But the good news is I like planning. Its very addictive. So although my saw mill guy offered to re-saw both sides make them parallel, I'm enjoying doing it by hand.

Also I've decided to glue up 3 boards to each side and make easy tenon and dove tail slots in the process. Should give me a 20 to 21 inch wide top. I presume 1" thick tenons are sufficient. Looks like I may have to cut off 3 or so inches from each end, making the bench only 90 inches long (7.5 feet). A long bench gives you a place to put stuff or a place to assemble while still working on remaining parts. Thats 2.5 feet longer than what I have now.


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## daddywoofdawg

96" is 8' 
105" - 6"=99"

1" tenon seems small for the size weight of that slab.
I wouldn't go nuts on the planing till it sits in the shop for a few weeks,It's going to move around for awhile till it adjusts to the shop climate.


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## rad457

Looks like I am just about ready to start construction of my bench, step 1 most of the wood is rough finished to size and has been grown quite comfortable in my workshop!


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## DanKrager

Combo, adding pieces to the sides of a slab might be problematic over time because the movement of the solid slab in the middle will be amplified at the extended edges. Now, if you put bread board ends and maybe some very healthy (dovetailed) battens under the middle, you might keep it under control. Just a thought.

+1 to not going crazy with flattening just yet.

I've had to resort to kerfing the bottom of a slab to keep it under control. Fillers and battens eventually solved the problem though. Don't like to do that, but sometimes you have to do what you don't like. I've steered clear of situations like that since.

DanK


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## DLK

> 96" is 8
> 105" - 6"=99"
> 
> 1" tenon seems small for the size weight of that slab.
> I wouldn t go nuts on the planing till it sits in the shop for a few weeks,It s going to move around for awhile till it adjusts to the shop climate.
> 
> - daddywoofdawg


Yes my math was off. (very tired.)

But planning is so much fun. O.K. I won't go nuts.


----------



## DLK

> Combo, adding pieces to the sides of a slab might be problematic over time because the movement of the solid slab in the middle will be amplified at the extended edges. Now, if you put bread board ends and maybe some very healthy (dovetailed) battens under the middle, you might keep it under control. Just a thought.
> 
> +1 to not going crazy with flattening just yet.
> 
> I ve had to resort to kerfing the bottom of a slab to keep it under control. Fillers and battens eventually solved the problem though. Don t like to do that, but sometimes you have to do what you don t like. I 've steered clear of situations like that since.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


You have me very worried.

What exactly do you mean, by fillers and battens? Kerning which way?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Depends on how dry the slab is, of course.

My bench is edged long-ways like Combo was suggesting, and it's not an issue over 4+ years.


----------



## Mosquito

I've also got a 1-1/2" thick front edge glued on the slab in my workbench and haven't had issues yet. I've also got two end caps dovetailed and bolted onto it as well (dovetailed to the front edge piece, and bolted to the slab). The tool well boards move a lot with the seasons, but haven't noticed any issues with my bench moving too much yet.


----------



## Pezking7p

Don K, build the biggest bench you have room for. Maybe not wider then 24-26", but up to that wide and as long as you can fit in your shop.

Nice slab, btw. I'm a lamination man, but the slab is traditional.


----------



## DanKrager

Perhaps I misunderstood your meaning, Combo. Not intending to worry you. It sounded like you were going to add several inches, like 6 or more to each side, but like our friends have pointed out, a couple inches each side is not troublesome.

Kerfing…saw cuts about 1" apart running with the grain and within perhaps an inch of the top. Takes all the strain out of a thick plank so it has nothing to push against for twisting, cupping, and splitting. It is a last resort treatment, not something you would do up front. After some acclimation, I have filled the kerfs with silicone which will serve some purpose, I don't know what, but it seemed good at the time! 

Bread board ends can more than make up for the amount you feel you have to cut off. They help keep the top flat.

Just know that between us all, we've got you covered!

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Something interesting. This is the prototype pf Studley's benchtop with front edge removed. They're pretty sure he had a white oak core with mahogany on the top and bottom.


----------



## duckmilk

Red, how thick was that top? That looks to me like a very functional way to have beautiful bench. How would walnut work?


----------



## DLK

Thanks, guys.

I wanted to add 2 edge boards (shown in green) on each side making the "Roubo tenon and dovetail" as in the diagram below:










Here drawn to scale the boards are 1" thick. I also made the tenon 1" thick. I could just as easily make it two inches thick, by notching the main part of the bench (yellow) deeper. To increase the width of the dove tail I'd have to add another (green) layer.


----------



## duckmilk

You'll be fine with that Don. You could also use 3 layers of lamination so you don't have to mortice into the slab, in my uneducated guess.


----------



## Iguana

Duck,

The top was.2 1/2"-3" thick in total. 3 layers of ~3/4" oak, ~4" wide pieces in a bricklaid lamination. Mahogany top and bottom. That was supposition, though, as apparently it would be bad form to cut through the original and find out for sure 

But it seems like a good way to get a stable, thick and good-looking top using smaller boards.

Walnut? Why not?


----------



## CL810

Don, I made my bench legs with 1" tenons and all is good.


----------



## DLK

> You ll be fine with that Don. You could also use 3 layers of lamination so you don t have to mortice into the slab, in my uneducated guess.
> 
> - duckmilk


That was one of my plans . And would get the bench up to 20" wide.


----------



## DLK

How thick and wide should I make the legs? More precisely how small can I get a way with?
I have a 3" x 6" x 105" ash rough sawn timber and several 4 by 5 old 8 and 10 foot hemlock timbers.
50 board feet of Ash 1" thick boards and the same in Oak.

I will probably make the leg vice out of 8/4 oak.

BTW, the moister content of the main bench timber is 11% according to my state of the art Harbor Freight mini-moisture meter. (The review and also this review found on LJ said it was reasonably accurate). The MC of the Ash 1 " boards was 8% or 9%.


----------



## CL810

The legs need to be 4" thick. 4" is necessary to create the inside shoulder to support the top. At least 4" wide, 5" would be better. Are you going to used a wedged tenon? If so, I think 5" will provide better proportions.


----------



## CL810

Double post.


----------



## DLK

Yes I was planning on wedging the tenon.


----------



## daddywoofdawg

like duck milk said,You could also use 3 layers of lamination so you don't have to mortice into the slab.on youtube there is a bench made with the 3 layers and he shows how he made the joints very easily just with a saw!


----------



## DLK

You probably mean this vidieo

FYI my new layout based on the suggestions given is:


----------



## upchuck

Combo Prof-
Do I recall that you came across a 3" slick recently? That tool might come in handy for the fine tuning of the timber framing joints on your bench. 
chuck


----------



## DLK

I did. I'll do the restore of it today.


----------



## duckmilk

Don, the legs also give the bench mass below the top, thus, even with a thinner top, beefy legs should add considerable stability.

Thanks for the info Mark.


----------



## RPhillips

> You probably mean this vidieo
> 
> FYI my new layout based on the suggestions given is:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Combo Prof


Also, if you are doing an end vise, you could also add another two laminates to allow for square dogs.


----------



## DLK

Arrrg. Woke up to snow covered ground today. (May 19) I so have to retire and move.


----------



## duckmilk

Don, move on down to southern tornado alley. You'll love it, other attractions include bikers getting into gunfights in bar parking lots, etc.


----------



## DLK

> Don, move on down to southern tornado alley. You ll love it, other attractions include bikers getting into gunfights in bar parking lots, etc.
> 
> - duckmilk


Good point.. Actually its quite nice here from May 1 to Nov 1. The other months not so much for me now.
Been spending a month in S.W. Florida Mid-dec to mid-Jan. does that count. (Fl has the most tornadoes per sq mile.)


----------



## DLK

Well, MC off the ash beam dropped to 6%, so I risked more planing. I've got the cupping and most of the wind out of one side. Should finish tomorrow. I'll leave final smoothing to later. Start on the flip-side next week. So lest talk vices.

My plan was to lear to make wooden screws for the leg vise and not put in a wagon wheel vise. But it seems I just won't have time to get that done, so I'm going to buy a LV tail vise as many of you have done. I also remember I have two face vises:










The large old one is a craftsman 3V7901 its face is 10" by 4" its screw is 4 turns per inch, the smaller one is never been used and has a 6 3/8" by 3 1/2" face and a 6 turns per inch screw. My though is to put the old face vise on the end where you might put a wagon wheel vice. Put on an Oak face and add dog holes. Are there any objections
or suggestions.

(Yes thats the Ash beam as she looks now.)


----------



## DanKrager

Purdy! That is all.

Carry on.

DanK


----------



## duckmilk

DonK, I have a craftsman qr vise the same size as yours and was planning on using it in the tail vise position. For the face though, I dream of a leg vise with boatman's chain guide. Course, that's all my bench is now, a dream.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Face vise as end vise has one caution IMHO: it has to be set back from the front edge and that in turn sets your front row of dog holes further in from the front edge of the bench. That's a consideration when beading, working narrower stock, etc. Most folks want those holes within a couple/three inches from the front of the bench. So the smaller vise is definitely the one you'd want to use in the end position.


----------



## DLK

Smitty: Thats very interesting why does it have to be set back from the front edge. More details please.

My thought was to do something like this or http://lumberjocks.com/projects/60275.

Ducky check out the above links.


----------



## rwe2156

deleted


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Don, here's example.

Say I want to put a bead detail on this board with the #45…










I can't, without a jig to hold it, as the fence of the plane doesn't clear the front of the bench.

Same if I'd want to use any joinery plane with fence.

Not saying it's a sin, just something that tends to draw dog holes closer to the front edge of a bench. When a face vise is used on the end, the center pop-up dog on said vise sets the line of dog holes down the bench. If you attach a big wood chop to the face, and put a dog hole in said chop, the impact is mitigated. But you get more chance of racking, there's debris that falls in the hole, etc.


----------



## CL810

If the vise has a chop thick enough for a dog hole it will work as long as you address racking. My dog hole centers are 1.5" from the front edge of the bench.


----------



## woodcox

^ I put veritas pop up prairie dogs on my end vise chop. Alway wary of the metal there and haven't hit them yet.


----------



## DLK

So, I have most of the twist out. I'm down to 1/8" over 105". (I.e. if I lift up the end of the nearest winding stick 1/8" 
it becomes level with the far winding stick to my old eyes. Is that good enough?


----------



## john2005

So then, after Cl810s setup, you set yourself up with a "Widdleracker" to prevent the racking.


----------



## tcarswell

So much inspiration in here. Thank you for sharing guys.


----------



## AnthonyReed

You do beautiful work John.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> So, I have most of the twist out. I m down to 1/8" over 105". (I.e. if I lift up the end of the nearest winding stick 1/8"
> it becomes level with the far winding stick to my old eyes. Is that good enough?
> 
> - Combo Prof


I would be for me, at least until the bench gets built and there's a final flattening.


----------



## upchuck

What Smitty said.


----------



## Mosquito

I'll 3rd what Smitty said. That's how I did mine


----------



## RPhillips

> So then, after Cl810s setup, you set yourself up with a "Widdleracker" to prevent the racking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome, got to make one of those… thanks for posting
> 
> - john2005


----------



## JayT

Anyone interested in a Stanley #203 bench clamp?

Another LJ got one in a lot of stuff in a sale and may be interested in selling. Looks to be in pretty good shape, too.

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/99546


----------



## DLK

*john2005* I like the "Widdleracker". Where is the original post on this idea?


----------



## TheFridge

End vise is useable and leg vise is almost done. Gotta love progress!


















Edit: gonna have to add a widdleracker to the list


----------



## john2005

> *john2005* I like the "Widdleracker". Where is the original post on this idea?
> 
> - Combo Prof


Thanks boys.

The idea came from LJ Widdle. When I was building my bench in '13, he threw that idea out on the table and I have appreciated it ever since. He had built a similar contraption. As far as to where the original posting, it would be a couple years back. Not sure where to point you there. I know we kicked some ideas around on this thread (one of the reasons I love this place) but I couldn't tell you when. I may have mentioned it in my bench blog as well. Hope that helps some.


----------



## widdle

I knew my ears were burning..Did Stef post his bench yet ?
Here's my widdleracker..There is times i could see wanting a wagon vise forchur, But in the mean time works pretty we..


----------



## widdle

Sorry..missed one


----------



## widdle

Nice work Fridge and i got a glimpse of hammerthumbs bench a few weeks ago..Killer..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wasn't it called a widdlestick too, for a while? Love it.


----------



## john2005

Yeah, you're right Smitty. I think it was Bucket who was trying to change up the patent.

Pfsh, Stef get his bench done. You're a regular comedian there Wids.


----------



## widdle

Yeah ..I forget what the original name was…Neither rolls off the tongue very well…bucket can speak to my lawyer









Yep..Stefs building a bench…saw it on twitter…


----------



## john2005

Right now, hundreds of LJs are flocking to Twitter…

Your lawyer looks lazy too.


----------



## CL810

Widdlestick post #10846 here.


----------



## john2005

I can't believe you actually found that…


----------



## Mosquito

Andy's back tracking dedication is as strong as mine lol


----------



## DLK

So Widdle in your design of the widdle stick. I see a dog with a hole in it. (The one in the bench not the one a sleep on the floor.) There is a T pin stuck into it in a prior picture. Are these glued together into one piece?


----------



## widdle

Its just a dowel with a little handle..Yes they are glued together..


----------



## DLK

I meant is the dowel with the handle glued to the dowel that is the dog. But, looking again at your project post I see how it is now.


----------



## Buckethead

Now my ears are burning.

IT WASNT ME IT WAS THE ONE ARMED MAN


----------



## Laban

And so it begins!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Atta boy.


----------



## TheFridge

End vise done










Leg vise about done (need brass rod stock to make handle knobs)










Deadman coming along. Getting close.


----------



## CL810

Regarding end vises that wrack.










This pic is from David Barron's blog. I think the spinner, as he calls it, is very interesting. It prevents wracking by adjusting the spinner to the thickness of the material being worked. My initial reaction was that I wouldn't want to give up that side of my vise. But my end vise is a face vise. Would it realistically be an issue if the spinner was on the low side of the chop towards the back of the bench? I can't remember a time I used that side of the vise below the screw and guide rods.


----------



## TheFridge

That is a pretty good idea if it can be incorporated out of the way. The widdleracker has some competition now.


----------



## john2005

Thats pretty interesting Andy.


----------



## Mosquito

Andy, that's very much acting on the same principle as the parallel guides that Mauricio, myself, and others have used. Not a bad concept, but… I wonder if one of those pinless parallel guides (the shaft style) would work in the same way? That way you wouldn't have to adjust the 'spinner' every time…





View on YouTube


----------



## kiefer

Here is the anti wracking device I posted some time ago and what I like about it that it contacts the jaw on the lower part and lets the vise still close at the top first and is also out of the way when not in use and quick to adjust .









http://lumberjocks.com/projects/98847

Klaus


----------



## mramseyISU

Well I started my decent to madness this weekend and got 7.5" out of 24" glued up for my new bench.


----------



## CL810

Kiefer is not human. ;-) Awesome idea Klaus!


----------



## DanKrager

Thanks for reposting that, Klaus. I guess I hadn't seen it before, somehow missed it. My Emmert is 18" across and it tends to wrack some. I use a stepped magnetic block to help, but something like this would be perfect if it could be done without wrecking the Emmert.

I wonder about a pair of Archimedian inclined planes (wedges) latched together with a spring so they would snap together to fill the gap when the jaws are lightly holding the work piece. Then tightening things down the workpiece becomes solidly held and the wedges hold the other end. I'd do a Widdlestick but I lose about 1/3 the capacity of the vise because of the dog spacing. ???

Sometimes I tilt the jaw just a bit and let it wrack back to square so the pressure holds the piece. I wish I knew what the really old timers did…you know….the pattern makers.
DanK


----------



## DLK

Dan, why not add two special extra dog holes near the vice end for the Widdlestick.


----------



## DanKrager

Combo, if it was a wooden vice I'd do that in a heartbeat. It is a collector's vise that I do not want to alter. The dogs on the vise are spaced to divide the jaw into thirds roughly. I'd even consider replacing the vise if it wasn't such a wonderfully versatile and handy thing.
DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ramsey, that is looking great!


----------



## mramseyISU

Thanks Smitty. I think I'll have the first 12" half all glued up by tomorrow night.


----------



## TheFridge

Might have to steal kiefers idea now. Good one bud. Progress. Rails for the deadman aren't glued yet but it's getting close. Still have some shaping to do and dog holes to drill in it.


----------



## DLK

> Combo, if it was a wooden vice I d do that in a heartbeat. It is a collector s vise that I do not want to alter. The dogs on the vise are spaced to divide the jaw into thirds roughly. I d even consider replacing the vise if it wasn t such a wonderfully versatile and handy thing.
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


O.k. another idea. Make an L-shaped widdlestick. It has a peg to fit into the the dog-hole and follows the vice to its end where it makes an L-turn to the bench and has the usual set of widdlestick holes. Inside the vice, attached to the
elle-widdlestick is a peg so that it will square up to the vice. Now you just make a special dog hole in the bench, but not the vice. Wait it's even easier. There is no need to use the dog hole on the vice at all. Just make a bench hook widdle stick. It may not get you as thin as you like. (Could use a piece of angle iron for the hook.)


----------



## DanKrager

Interesting, Combo. I'll give it some thought.
DanK


----------



## DLK

> Interesting, Combo. I ll give it some thought.
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Maybe make a F-bench hook widdelstick that hooks over the front and back of the "moving face" of the vice.


----------



## BrianNH

Anxious to get going on my new workbench. After a lot of research and browsing over the winter, I went with the Benchcrafted Classic Leg Vise and a Benchcrafted Cast Tail Vise. Also purchased plans for the Shaker Workbench from Benchcrafted and bought all of the Maple lumber in the spring. Started the build a couple of weeks ago, but so far it is barely started but hoping to make some progress over the summer.

-- Brian (www.snowdogwoodworks.com)


----------



## TheFridge

The end is in sight


----------



## Beams37

> The end is in sight
> 
> - TheFridge


Fridge … I love your bench !!


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks man. Much appreciated


----------



## RPhillips

> Anxious to get going on my new workbench. After a lot of research and browsing over the winter, I went with the Benchcrafted Classic Leg Vise and a Benchcrafted Cast Tail Vise. Also purchased plans for the Shaker Workbench from Benchcrafted and bought all of the Maple lumber in the spring. Started the build a couple of weeks ago, but so far it is barely started but hoping to make some progress over the summer.
> 
> -- Brian (www.snowdogwoodworks.com)
> 
> - BrianNH


Keep us posted!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^+1 Brian


----------



## byerbyer

Looking forward to following along, Brian.


----------



## Slyy

Fridge glad to see the progress. And good to see a couple others starting the journey! I've finally almost got a working hand back so after a nearly two month hiatus, I hope to get working on my bench again, the pile of lumber and half finished top have been mocking me the last several weeks.


----------



## TheFridge

What had happened? You had a disagreement with a chisel?

A coat of BLO to see what she gonna look like. So far so good.


----------



## richardwootton

Fridge, that bad boy is looking gnarley! I'm still waiting on my oak to get to a usable moisture content.

On a good note, I've got my new shop framed, sided, and one window installed! It feels really amazing to have an entirely woodworking dedicated shop in the works. Something I never imagined when I first got interested in the craft.


----------



## terryR

Looks great, Fridge. One of a kind, I think.

The spalted chop is sweet…just as the drawer fronts I keep spying in the background. Unique and quite pleasing to the eyes!

Just noticed how your center dog hole on the chop forms triangles with the holes on the top…smart!


----------



## Marlena13

I definitely need one!


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks bud, haven't seen you around but it sounds like you've been busy. Having a stand alone shop is awesome.

On a side note, finally picked up a 2 3/8 iron off of eBay and should have that 4 1/2 up and running soon. Never realized how small a #3 is till I had to smooth my benchtop. Thanks again bud. Remember to give me a shout if you ever pass through Baton Rouge and I'll sling you a couple boards of cypress.

Thanks terry, I usually work on 24" x 24" glue ups or less and I didn't want it to move at all. Looks funny but works just fine.


----------



## richardwootton

Good deal man! I'll be in Baton Rouge in July for a wedding, so I'll give you a hollar.


----------



## RPhillips

Looking good Fridge….

I know a group of guys that I became pretty good friends with over years at my last job that were from Lake Charles area, good people… and good cooks. Made some outstanding food, just had to remember not to ask what I was eating… boy, do I miss there cooking… I did learn to make jambalaya from them, but it's not same. :O)


----------



## TheFridge

Do that bud, I'll be around.

Yeah RP, cooking and football is what we live for


----------



## Slyy

> What had happened? You had a disagreement with a chisel?
> 
> - TheFridge


Indeed, it appears that in fact, hands and chisels do not get along well at all.

I'd say that BLO makes that color really show through, makes for some striking contrast!


----------



## ToddJB

Wrong thread.


----------



## TheFridge

It's finishing out better than I could've hoped.

I also had a disagreement with 1/4" chisel. Luckily it buried itself in the meat of my thumb and didn't mess up the picture frame I was working on.


----------



## duckmilk

Todd uses left hand threads 

Westinghouse (Fridge for those not in the know), I love the look of your bench, very unique.
I have an idea that maybe the guide system for your end vise may limit racking. Have you tried it out?
There were some posts here recently discussing racking solutions. Your design may be able to limit that. Insight?


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah man, I've used it a bunch. It still racks pretty good. Gonna have to go with a widdleracker or a kiefer dilly before its all said and done. I'd say it would have to be a lot harder than white oak with a lot wider cross section for the guides and chop to keep it to a bare minimum.


----------



## duckmilk

I just went back and looked at your pics of the underside, and it gives me the impression that your system would be very resistant to racking, with the guide rods a bit longer than actually needed and encased fully in a guide channel.


----------



## TheFridge

I thought the same when building it but the weak point is the mortise is the chop.


----------



## kiefer

TheFridge
Looking at your pictures you could drill some holes that are in three or four rows and off set in the guide bars and use a steel pin with a bend on top to rest on the top of the bench .
This would give you very close spacing and the anti wracking device would be at a good elevation in line with the screw and let the vice close at the top first .

Klaus


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah. I'm trying to avoid drilling holes in the guides. Im probably going to do something similar to what you did for your bench. I think. Im still tinkering. I'd like to take a creative approach and build something into the bench that is easy to lock or unlock and will still allow it to open when locked. Some sort of ratcheting mechanism maybe.


----------



## kiefer

With what I suggested you could still open the vise because the pin is in between the bench and chop face .
but a gear rack would be another way to do it .


----------



## TheFridge

A gear or threaded rod is the way I'm leaning right now. Will probably make a widdleracker for now and and piddle with the built in anti racking deal in the meantime.


----------



## mramseyISU

Finally got the top glued up on my new bench last night. Once I get it flat it'll be around 3.75" thick finished size is going to be 21.75" x 72" when I get the ends trued up.


----------



## Mosquito

^ Lookin' sweet!


----------



## CL810

^ +10 to that!


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah buddy. Good luck.


----------



## DanKrager

Ooooo boy! Another bench to drool over! You're joining an ever growing group here and we really enjoy, OK I really enjoy, watching these come together with all the personal touches applied. Good start!

This is going to be a heavy beast! You got some strong available? Oh, and while 21" doesn't seem like a deal breaker for most doors, there may be some sharp turns to consider… 
Just sayin'.
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I seriously could make a bench year and I wouldn't get tired of it. Watching everyone else is almost as satisfying.

Interesting bench fact: Lie Nielsen now has to obtain the maple for the benches they make from Canada. Evidently the mills in the northeast US all made contracts with China during the recession. They can't even get maple from the mill in the next town.

Same story with the walnut mill in my town. It all goes overseas. These are the things that worry me about our country.


----------



## mramseyISU

I'm not surprised by the walnut going overseas. We sawed walnut one summer in my grandpa's sawmill and none of it stayed in North America and this was 20 years ago.


----------



## ClammyBallz

Does it matter what type of lumber you use for a workbench? I have access to some chestnut barn boards. They range 2"-4" thick and 6" wide. A lot of them are cracked, but I'm sure I could cut them down to find one good side of each board for the top. Would that matter?


----------



## JayT

I like Christopher Schwarz's advice on wood for a workbench.

Any wood (even plywood) can be used to make a bench. The material should be cheap, easy to get, heavy (if possible), dry-ish and heavy (if possible). After a few years of use, your bench will look like every other used bench - beat up, broke in and awesome.

If you are doing a laminated top, then the cracks probably won't matter. Work some glue into the cracks before you laminate. The boards glued on each side will help with support, too. If there's a crack that's still a problem when you are done, it can be filled with epoxy.


----------



## richardwootton

I wouldn't use chestnut mainly because the stuff is so hard to find and pretty valuable.


----------



## CL810

> I seriously could make a bench year and I wouldn t get tired of it.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Man, if we were neighbors we'd go broke building benches for resell! Lol!! Nothing better than a bench build.


----------



## Boatman53

I have to admit I'm thinking of another bench, Shaker style. I've collected quite a few vises over the years, so once again I'm perplexed as to the vise configuration I would like. I see the advantages of all the choices. 
I'm not at all disappointed in my twin leg vise bench, it's done everything I need. It's just that I have this amazing vise that's begging for a bench.









Jim
Edit, sorry didn't realize that the photo was so large. But the vise is very big. I'll have to change that later. Off to work.


----------



## terryR

> I seriously could make a bench year and I wouldn t get tired of it. Watching everyone else is almost as satisfying.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


 must be the man-size joinery!

Sorry to admit it, but I left my bench in this state for several months:










I guess the combo finger joint and tongue/groove intimidated me? Finally, I cut a chunk of Walnut a few days ago and resumed work on the left endcap. All the joints were cut by hand, but I'm seriously looking at routers now!










The joinery was a little easier than expected, and came out fairly nice! The Walnut is still a bit oversized, so that makes the gaps appear larger than reality. Hoping to finish shaping today.










I chose Walnut since it's the only stock I have this large, and Troy's bench looked very nice IMO! Next, an end cap for the opposite end, and an LV tail vise install. And probably a new walnut chop for the leg vise?

I really wanted sexy DT's above, but just not practical since the aprons are already attached to the bench. But, will certainly add DT's to the upcoming joinery bench!

--------------------

That sux about hardwood going to China.

I just found a lumber store 4 hours from our place which sounds awesome on the phone…time for a road trip…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I seriously could make a bench year and I wouldn t get tired of it.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead
> 
> Man, if we were neighbors we d go broke building benches for resell! Lol!! Nothing better than a bench build.
> 
> - CL810


I don't know Andy, I've still got the hookup for $1.50 bdft 8/4 white oak. Maybe we could at least break even?-)

Woodworkers just love benches. I've had probably 5 or 6 woodworkers in my shop this past few months. Without fail, when they walk in, they don't go check out my all my LN stuff on the back wall….or anything else. No, they walk right up to my roubo, then inspect and feel the big dovetailed leg joint. Makes me chuckle every time.


----------



## terryR

Yep, I think men in general love benches! I've had a handful of non-woodworkers in my shop, and they all go straight for the bench.


----------



## jmartel

Red just loves it when other guys feel his legs.


----------



## mramseyISU

In case anybody is interested I'm starting to blog about this monster.

http://lumberjocks.com/mramseyISU/blog/series/10266


----------



## DanKrager

TerryR, see? It wasn't that bad. Still a good excuse for another tool. That does look nice and I'm happy for you that you finally got "roundtuit" When I first saw the bench without the end cap several unmentionables crossed my (dirty old) mind and felt sad that it was exposing all its underparts. Now the tool tray? With holes or ramps? 

DanK


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Dan. Not decided on tool tray details yet…probably ramps at either end?

Yeah, my bench looked exposed for a while!


----------



## Mosquito

I just left the bottom of my tool tray lose, with one piece being a half-piece (due to width requirements). I just pop the half piece out at the end, and sweep all the shavings out that way. Don't lose flat space in the tool tray that way (given my bench is only 4' long)


----------



## terryR

That's a cool idea, Mos. I've developed a lazy habit of allowing the tool tray to fill with shavings and smaller tools, and rely on an air compressor for cleaning.

My previous version of the tool tray had square holes to allow clamps to pass through, and debris. Neat idea on paper, but those tremendous aprons prevent easy access to the underside of the bench. Doh!


----------



## TheFridge

Almost there


----------



## DanKrager

Hey Fridge, that plane till on the end is a good idea! Just reach down and grab one and very easy to replace. I like it. Besides, it add mass to the bench.

So, where are you going to hang the Widdlestick?

Say, never thought about putting a dust collector hose to my tool box! 

DanK


----------



## bandit571

Somewhere under all of this "stuff"....









Anyone see a workbench?

Need to pack a lot back into the chest









Welcome to the Dungeon Shop….










It is in there…somewhere.


----------



## woodcox

Dan, the fridge's tools require a fresh supply of carbon monoxide. Or his auto tools just committed suicide with the completion of the precious wood bench.

Edit: if I haven't said it before, fridge your bench is sweet. I remember you showing what you were making the top from and it turned out killer!


----------



## TheFridge

Being on the small side I planned on putting them in some cabinets, but I wanted easy access. I think I worked out well.

thats a tool box dust collector that doubles as a duct forcmy roll around a/c unit. It's the best thing since sliced bread.

Bandit… I think you need an intervention for your tool problem


----------



## TheFridge

> Dan, the fridge s tools require a fresh supply of carbon monoxide. Or his auto tools just committed suicide with the completion of the precious wood bench.
> 
> - woodcox


I caught them with the lawn mower hooked up to the hose and the door closed. The bastards. They won't get off that easy.


----------



## terryR

Fridge, excellent spot for a plane till…gonna copy that one here!

Sorry to hear about your suicidal tools. bummer.
I bet mine would snuggle up closer to the A/C.
95 degrees here today, with 80% humidity…jeez!


----------



## Mosquito

ouch Terry, you're out doin' us here… I just got done mowing in 85° 70% humidity and about feel like dyin' lol

That's a sweet idea Fridge. I had thought about using the space under my workbench for a [second] plane til too, to add weight, but it's not big enough for my second set lol


----------



## TheFridge

By all means terry.

Yeah mos, with the top being mostly poplar I had to add some weight to it. When I jointed the top, that 2-3/8" iron made the bench walk a little bit.


----------



## Mosquito

My bench is primarily oak (with hard maple for the end caps and the back tool well stretcher), and 3" thick. However, the fact that the benchtop is only 11" wide and 48" long leads to similar "walk about" issues.

Having come from using a workmate as my only workbench in my apartment for 2 years, I'm really not complaining yet lol (Plus in a 9×12 spare bedroom workshop, a bigger bench would cause other problems anyway)


----------



## Buckethead

Fridge, that plane till idea is superb! Access, minimum footprint, plus cool points galore. Did you see something similar, or is this your own conception?

DAT BONDO POSE THO


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks bucket,I didnt see anything. I knew I needed the extra weight and I wanted them handy. I just cut down and redid my existing till and then added the 2 radiused arms. The till is the only thing on the bench I used screws for just in case I needed to modify it later. Pretty much everything I did is one off kinda stuff. I had a loose plan and just kinda figured it out as I went.

Whenever I complete it, there will be a pic. Oh yes. There will be. I have no shame.


----------



## Northwest29

Fridge, that bench is way too pretty to even think about using it. Maybe it should be a tall coffee table instead? (-:


----------



## CL810

Fridge the bench looks great! I must be going blind as I never noticed the way the legs fit into the top - great joinery!


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks man, it was a Chinese joint I saw on a William Ng video. It took 2 through mortises before I figured out a way not to butcher it. Hence the inlays of mahogany over the mortises by the end vise. With a 45 chiseling jig the birds beak was actually the easiest part of the joint.


----------



## Laban

Okay so I will be starting my bench tomorrow so I am trying to finish up some final decisions. I guess I will start with the decisions I have made
Split Top Roubo 23" wide x 60" long.
SYP 2×4 construction, Red Oak Vise Chops (And probably the planestop/tool holder)
Leg Vise & a Large Face Vise on the end. Going with the Schwarz style vise setup as seen in the "Build an 18th-Century Workbench" DVD
I am not chopping the mortises & tenons. I am using the method seen in this video 
Round Dog Holes
Sliding Deadman
Plan on a cabinet underneath
I think that is all the basics so hear is the first of many questions I am sure will be incoming. My vises are both WoodRiver vises. I have a Large Face Vise and a Large Tail Vise. I am pretty much just taking the screw & nut from the large tail vise. Here are the images of the vises



























I have come up with 2 options for using the tail vise for the leg vise. Since I am laminating the legs I can either put the nut in the middle lamination or mount it on the back side of the leg. here are the pro's & cons I can see
1. If I place it in the middle lamination I will get a larger vise opening, but if there is ever an issue the nut will be in the middle of the leg requiring disassembly to get to it.
2. If I place it behind the leg I will get about 2" less of a vise capacity but I will have easy access to the nut if I ever need it.
I am personally leaning towards option 1. Does anyone have any thoughts on this subject? Here are a couple drawings to explain a little better

Option 1








Option 2


----------



## TheFridge

I'd put it behind so you have more meat in front of the nut. i made my mine to open 13" maybe? But I really cant think of anything that wide that I couldn't put in my end vise.


----------



## CL810

Option 3: recess it in the back of the leg.


----------



## DanKrager

But Cl810, that would require more woodworking!

+1^ on option 3. (Wish I'da though of that.)

DanK


----------



## DLK

I have the same questions. But my legs will be 4 or 5 inches thick. How much meat is necessary in front of the nut.


----------



## CL810

I don't think you need more than an inch of wood. To be honest that is really a guess. Lol


----------



## DLK

So silly me I decided to open the box from Lee Valley and measure the tail vise nut. The flange is 1.75", so 2 inches of meat in front of the nut is needed.


----------



## rad457

I usually go by the 1/3 - 2/3 rule, try not to measure if possible?


----------



## TheFridge

My legs are a lot skinnier though. I'd leave at least a couple inches of meat in front of the nut.


----------



## Laban

My total leg will be around 4 1/2" thick. I'm not sure why I didn't think of putting it into the back lamination. That is probably what I will do. Thanks every one


----------



## Iguana

Joshua,

That's the approach I used. Benchcrafted hardware, but same principle. My opinion is that you only need as much meat in front of the retaining nut as your chop is thick.


----------



## splatman

Option 4: Thread the hole in the leg. From front to back. No nut needed, as the leg serves as the nut. How to thread the hole, is still a question. The vise screw looks like it has an Acme thread, and Acme taps do not come cheap. Have it threaded at a machine shop, though that might cost more than you will want to spend.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I've been real busy and I'm trying to catch up here.

Great work on the bench Fridge. A+ for thinking outside the box. You have a really cool looking bench!

This might not be much help Combo and Joshua, but I was going to put the nut on the back of this leg vise recessed on the inside of the leg, but because of the weight of the wheel and 1-1/2" ACME, I decided not to recess it. It gives more support for the weight of the chop and wheel.










The hole through the leg is just slightly larger than the ACME, but the Delrin plastic at the face of the leg is only a smidgen larger than the rod. I remember Red even put a bearing in the face of the leg on his. When I go to make my next bench, I will use that trick also. What I ended up with is about 7" of support for the weight of the vise.


----------



## CL810

A benefit of the criss-cross approach is that it bears all of the weight of the chop and handle/wheel.


----------



## DLK

Thanks *Hammerthumb* for the reminder of Red''s use of a bearing. Trying to anticipate all the issues. I may start on the legs tomorrow.


----------



## kiefer

Take a look at this configuration it will solve your problem as it supports the weight of the chop and screw and eliminates the pin bar or anything that is used instead of a pin bar .









http://lumberjocks.com/projects/116121


----------



## duckmilk

I've admired your ingenuity Kiefer.


----------



## DLK

> I ve been real busy and I m trying to catch up here.
> 
> Great work on the bench Fridge. A+ for thinking outside the box. You have a really cool looking bench!
> 
> This might not be much help Combo and Joshua, but I was going to put the nut on the back of this leg vise recessed on the inside of the leg, but because of the weight of the wheel and 1-1/2" ACME, I decided not to recess it. It gives more support for the weight of the chop and wheel.
> 
> The hole through the leg is just slightly larger than the ACME, but the Delrin plastic at the face of the leg is only a smidgen larger than the rod. I remember Red even put a bearing in the face of the leg on his. When I go to make my next bench, I will use that trick also. What I ended up with is about 7" of support for the weight of the vise.
> 
> - Hammerthumb


I was reviewed Red's upgrade note on installing a bearing to relive strain on the acme screw.

But now I wonder that if the nut was recessed and moved forward so that the end of the flange is nearly flush with the leg face, then would the strain issue on the acme screw go away causing the bearing to be unnecessary?

I'm using a Lee Valley-Veritas tail vise and do not plan to ever put a wheel on the end. Although the wheel looks cool I think it adds too much weight.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I was reviewed Red's upgrade note on installing a bearing to relive strain on the acme screw.

But now I wonder that if the nut was recessed and moved forward so that the end of the flange is nearly flush with the leg face, then would the strain issue on the acme screw go away causing the bearing to be unnecessary?

I'm using a Lee Valley-Veritas tail vise and do not plan to ever put a wheel on the end. Although the wheel looks cool I think it adds too much weight.

-Don K, (Houghton, Michigan)

I don't know about that Don, but it is an interesting thought. Without the added weight of the wheel, it might work fine that way. The leg vise I posted above was all hand made with some parts and tips from August. I had intended it to be very heavy duty so I used August's recommendation of 1-1/2" ACME. That might be a little overkill, but he graciously supplied me the nut flange and Delrin bushing. I bought the ACME and wheel from his recommended suppliers. When I got it I realized how heavy it was and had some concern about the weight.

During assembly, I tinkered with the nut flange and figured that the nut flange would add more support if I installed it with the nut outside the leg. That made the support area from the front of the bushing to the back of the nut over 7". Think about it like holding a pen between finger and thumb vs holding it with you whole hand.

I didn't really lose any capabilities doing it this way as the ACME I bought was 24". It is a very strong vise, and does not require much effort to use. As this was the first leg vise I had ever attempted, I am please with how it came out.


----------



## DLK

Thanks Paul. I'm going to go ahead without the bearing, adding it later if necessary. I may also do the alternative and add a wheel to the bottom of the chop.


----------



## DLK

More questions. It looks we may be moving. So I am now changing my workbench design so that I can disassemble it and move it. I know I have seen such designs, but can't find them. Can you guys post some good links to such designs?

Concerning the move: The house will decreases from 3000 sq. feet to 1000 sq. feet, but the shop will increase from 242 sq. feet to 1200 sq. feet. This means in particular that I will no longer need to keep the work bench up against a wall.


----------



## JayT

Here's mine. There's a link in the project post to Schwarz's original plan it's based on.


----------



## woodcox

Here's one I liked don. Edit: ^^^and there you see another
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/workbenches/schwarz-workbenches/free-drawing-the-knockdown-holtzapffel-workbench

Fridge-that filled plane till makes your bench pretty awesome!


----------



## DLK

LOL, they are the same. But thanks, I may do that.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Don - here is the one I just made. Each pair of legs on each side is one piece. Stretchers are 2 more pieces. Top is one piece. Held together at the stretchers with barrel nuts and bolts.


----------



## DLK

I do like the idea of barrel nuts, but none are to be found in my town. It may mean a road trip.


----------



## woodcox

I made these the other day. 1" brass rod in about 1 1/4" long, about 8" for $19 via ebay. I would think around thirty bucks would be enough for brass and hardware total for a leg assembly and delivered to your door. I used 5" 3/8 bolts that I had, I would use 1/2"- 5/8" bolts for a workbench though. Easy and quick, the pair took a half hour or so to cut and tap.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I made the ones for my nephews bench out of 1" drill rod. Less expensive than brass and a little stronger. A little harder to thread though.


----------



## richardwootton

> More questions. It looks we may be moving. So I am now changing my workbench design so that I can disassemble it and move it. I know I have seen such designs, but can t find them. Can you guys post some good links to such designs?
> 
> Concerning the move: The house will decreases from 3000 sq. feet to 1000 sq. feet, but the shop will increase from 242 sq. feet to 1200 sq. feet. This means in particular that I will no longer need to keep the work bench up against a wall.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Don, 
Check out the Moravian bench build! Not only is it sexy as all get out, it's pretty straight forward. That's what I'm converting my bench into while I wait for the oak for the roubo build to dry. 
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/wMyers/moravianBench/moravianBench-01.asp


----------



## DLK

The Moravian bench is an interesting idea. I may pursue it. But the Leg vise arrangement looks weak to me. So I would instead just incorporate the wedge Idea with out the splayed legs.

If I proceed with the hex bolt route I may have to make the cross dowels (aka Barrel nuts) or go the Chris Swartz route. I'm contemplating using threaded rod instead of hex bolts (which I would have to order or drive 2 hours to get long enough ones.)

Next I hope is the final question for a while. One option I have for the legs (and probably the cheapest) is to use ash. I have 50 board feet of 4/4 boards that are 6+ inches wide. So I think 4" by 6" legs is the way to go with the least wood waste. The standard seems to be 5 by 5 , but a 24 sq. inch cross section is only a sq. inch shy of a 25 inch cross section. The leg mass I think will be enough. It will mean longer hex bolts to attach the stretchers or longer tenons for the Moravian route. *The question is:* will I get into trouble making 4" by 6" legs instead of 5" by 5" legs? ( I don't think I'll get arrested by the workbench police, but are there issues I am not seeing? )

Besides the 8 foot by 3.5 by 15 inch ash beam I'm using I also have a 8 by 3 by 7 ash beam an I am very tempted to make a spilt top Roubo.


----------



## JayT

> *The question is:* will I get into trouble making 4" by 6" legs instead of 5" by 5" legs?_ ( I don t think I ll get arrested by the workbench police, but are there issues I am not seeing? )


Nah, the size is overkill if it wasn't for the leg vise hole-gotta make sure there is enough meat on either side. You are subtracting depth, but adding in the direction that takes the most strength to prevent racking, so should be just fine.


----------



## TheFridge

Maybe the police at the Blue oyster bar


----------



## Mosquito

My bench legs are 3-1/2 "x 3", except the leg vise leg, which is 3" x 5-1/2", and has a tapped 1-3/8" hole (for 1-1/2" wood screw).. No issues to speak of (I even have a 1-5/8" hole drilled in the back 3-1/2" wide leg with no issues)


----------



## DLK

I'm gluing up my first leg it is ~ 4" by 5" using up the narrow and worst of the Ash boards. 4 pieces glued together. Took more clamps then I thought it would so I will do one leg at a time. They may end up all different sizes.


----------



## mramseyISU

> Maybe the police at the Blue oyster bar
> 
> - TheFridge


I'm not going to lie a little coffee came out of my mouth reading that.

I got 2 of my leg laminations glued up last night. I'm shooting for a finished cross section of 3" x 5". I'll post some pictures when I get them all glued up and milled to finished size.


----------



## TheFridge

When coffee flies out of mouths. My job is done.


----------



## DLK

I got 3 of my leg laminations glued up. Cross section is ~ 4" by 5".


----------



## Jay101182

Man…I wish I had a nice workbench…I would use it to make myself a nice workbench


----------



## TheFridge

A waxed piece of 3/4" ply on sawhorses will work wonders bud

Keep the benches comin fellers


----------



## bandit571

An older bench I built for the Pole Barn Shop I was using









Just barn wood stuff









I just made it too skinny. When I moved on to the Dungeon Shop, I made a new one.

I think those were 6×6 legs…..


----------



## DLK

> Man…I wish I had a nice workbench…I would use it to make myself a nice workbench
> 
> - Jay101182


Yes its difficult to build a bench with out a bench. I'm using the per-bench mos style to build mine. Look at his workbench build blog.


----------



## merrill77

> Man…I wish I had a nice workbench…I would use it to make myself a nice workbench


This is not quite the same….but when I was building my bench, I started with the top. When the top was assembled and flattened (but not yet completely done), I screwed it to sawhorses and screwed some plywood to the sawhorse legs to add rigidity. Then I was able to use my new benchtop to make the base. After adding the base, I finished the top. It's a process


----------



## DLK

Four legs now time to make rails and stretchers .I'm running out of ash, may have to use some Oak. Getting tired of gluing up. I have a call into my saw mill guy.


----------



## DLK

I got a little stuck on what to do. So decided to take a break. Went out for lunch with my dog and drove over to my saw mill guy to see what I could get for the stretchers. Picked up five 9 foot 2"+ by 6"+ -s off a "non-premium stickered pile at $4.50 each. Stopped at an estate sale-got more rust (2 planes, a saw set, egg beater, interesting clamp). Drove home looked at the work bench build and decided to take a nap in front of the TV to think things out. Then the universe provided. I woke up just in time to catch a woodsmith episode called "weekend workbench" which answer some of my remaining questions. In particular covered a mechanical draw bore system using a carriage bolt
much like that used in the-knockdown-holtzapffel-workbench that JayT and woodcox mention above, but I think a little better system. It made some other interesting and useful points. I don't understand it, but for some reason the universe seems to always step in and provide me with tools and solutions. I hope to post some pictures soon. Now back to the wood-shop.


----------



## DLK

Legs:










And with that my camera died. (Lens won't retract or open. Universe payback I guess.)


----------



## DanKrager

Don't get down on the camera Combo. You did push it to the moral limits taking pictures of bare legs like that. I has a conscience and simply shut itself down out of concern for your well being. Either that or it had a heart attack from all the excitement. Nice legs, though.

DanK


----------



## DLK

> Don t get down on the camera Combo. You did push it to the moral limits taking pictures of bare legs like that. I has a conscience and simply shut itself down out of concern for your well being. Either that or it had a heart attack from all the excitement. Nice legs, though.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Yes I suppose it was the legs the caused the camera to get a "stiffy". Brought it inside to cool down and after a short message I got it working again. Well dinner break is over. Back to the shop I go to cut the short stretchers and rails.


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah buddy


----------



## DLK

On craigslist VINTAGE WOOD WORKERS BENCH - $500


----------



## RPhillips

Maybe we can get a Kickstart going and pick this one up for Stef…. whacha think?


----------



## bandit571

Maybe….but then we'd have to deal with a Stef Bondo Pose for all time…...hard to tell WHAT he'd pose as….


----------



## DLK

If I hadn't started on my bench, I might be tempted to go get it. 2 hour drive to Eagle River, WI for me.


----------



## TheFridge

I wish I had access to this before I started my bench. Some type of mahogany. Traded 10- 4 lamp flourescent fixtures that I got for free for it. I took the shortest most twisted effed up one out of a half dozen like this. All of em were 12/4.




























Sat out in the weather for a couple years but I can still use a bunch of it.


----------



## DLK

I don't know 'fridge. Having started with the Ash beam. I'm jealous of the glue of the 2 by 4 boys. Lot of work to get it flat and keep it square.

Nice score on the mahogany though.


----------



## terryR

Loving that mahogany.
I'd never try to flatten that beast, but it would make 100 turned goodies!
There's more of them? My truck is empty!


----------



## rad457

An awful lot of checking? Next door neighbour gave me a bunch of 3/4" mahogany boards from an old house 70's era, all about a foot wide. Maybe if I laminate them all together, naw think I will stick to my Birch! Going to have to borrow that idea for the Planes great use of space.


----------



## DLK

Soon to attach short stretchers to legs. Should I draw bore and glue or just draw bore?


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks Andre. There is a lot of checking which I don't mind if it's consistent. I'd never try to flatten it. I'd just cut it up a piece at a time and maybe resaw it whenever I can get all the pieces for my 20" bandsaw in one place. Maybe small veneers. I'm just gonna let it sit for awhile til I finger it out. Prett stuff though.


----------



## duckmilk

> Soon to attach short stretchers to legs. Should I draw bore and glue or just draw bore?
> 
> - Combo Prof


Just my .02, but I think the drawbore alone would be sufficient provided there's enough tenon to prevent a blow-out.


----------



## upchuck

ComboProf-
For your portable bench? Draw bore and glue. The end leg parts need to be as solid as possible.
chuck


----------



## JayT

I'd agree with chuck. Since it'll be a knockdown, more support is a good thing and you don't have as much in the long direction.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Drawbore and glue. No reason not to add glue.


----------



## DLK

Thanks all. I was reading Swartz and in one place he says with draw bore gluing is not necessary and yet in another he says gluing can't hurt so he glues. Anyway *Chuck* you make a good point. I shall be gluing.

7 out of twelve mortises are done. So tomorrow I'll have the end leg parts done and will begin on the long stretchers.

By the fifth mortise, I was cutting them perfectly. I could slide in the tenon with going back and paring until they fit the tennon. I use mostly a 1/2" Narex mortise chisel, A Stanley 3/4" bench chisel, and a 1/4" paring chisel that Chuck gave me. The Stanley needs to be resharpened, but the Narex is still holding its edge


----------



## TheFridge

Pics or you didn't do it


----------



## mramseyISU

Well my legs are milled to size and I spent some time last night figuring out what I was going to need for stretchers. I see lots of mortise chopping in the near future.


----------



## CL810

Looks good mramsey! How long are the legs?


----------



## DLK

Here are "my" legs with dry fit short stretchers.










Stretchers are 3" by 4" solid ash (with some spalting).


----------



## TheFridge

Coming along nicely. Them legs go on for days!


----------



## mramseyISU

When it's all said and done the top should be around 34" off the ground. I'm going to use a 2" long mortise attach the legs to the top. I'm going to start that process once I get the stretchers all glued up and milled so maybe this weekend, depending on how busy I am during the week. I was able to get the short stretchers for the ends laminated last night and the long ones are cut and ready to laminate but I ran out of clamps. I'm making some boxes in the background for my wife's essential oil pyramid scheme to fund the stuff I want to do. So I have 6 orders for them I need to get done sometime too. I've been bouncing between them while the glue is drying on one I jump on the other.


----------



## splatman

On YouTube: Making A Wooden Bench Dog And Bench Top Refinishing (11:02) by I Build It


----------



## mochoa

I draw bored with no glue. My bench is still rock solid after a couple of years. Glue is always a plus but no glue makes for a much more relaxing assembly process.


----------



## Mosquito

I did the same; draw bore with no glue, when I assembled the legs for my workbench (I don't use anything other than gravity and friction to hold the top on to the legs)


----------



## DLK

*Mos* thats interesting. As I recall your leg tenons are through tenons, mine will be stub tenons. Do you think I can get away with the same, i.e. just use gravity and friction. I guess I could try it and see.


----------



## Mosquito

if the joints are tight enough I don't see why not. Just has to not rack I guess


----------



## DLK

Thanks, Mos.

I have the long stretchers cut. I will cut the tenons and chop the mortise for them today.

Re-thought the mechanical draw bore system for attaching the stretchers and have decided to see if I can return the
carriage bolts I have for hex bolts. I don't know if I can get long enough ones in town.

New question. It is possible that the workbench will sit on concrete (maybe not permanently). So I was thinking to add a pad to the leg bottoms. My first thought was rubber, but its not so easy to attache rubber to wood. 
Maybe a 3/4" layer of pressure treated? Any better ideas out there?

How about spray on pick up bed liner, such as Rust-oleum truck bead coating?


----------



## terryR

Legs looking good, guys!

Don, my pine bench is on concrete; no issues after 3+ years. my shop is usually around 60% humidity also.

Leather might be easier to attach to the wood than rubber? hide glue…


----------



## DLK

Ah, yes leather good idea. I have lots of wood ruined from sitting on concrete and wicking in the moisture. For example I had some store bought glued up walnut standing on edge on garage floor concrete. The ends got moldy and the the glue up delaminated.


----------



## terryR

yeah, the perimeter of my shop gets wet from rains, have had Borg 'furniture' wick moisture and fall apart. I keep my bench in a drier spot.

Hey, maybe a simple coat of paint on the legs' bottom?


----------



## DLK

I was thinking the rubber ( and now the leather) would make the legs also slip less when it gets moved to a wooden surface. I think one uses contact cement and not hide glue to attached leather to wood.


----------



## terryR

Don, after coffee, your rubber sounds like a more water proof plan. Leather wicks horribly.


----------



## JayT

Unless you oil the leather well, won't it absorb moisture and trap it next to the wood, causing the same problem?

Choices, choices. I would think contact cement would work for the rubber, as well. If you want to do a wooden pad, turn it so that has the face or edge grain against the floor instead of end grain. That makes it a lot less likely to wick moisture out of the concrete. Then pretty much any standard finish could be put on those pads.

Another option that would take a bit more time would be to stand the legs up in a tub of oil finish (thinned BLO or similar) and let them wick up as much oil as they want for a day. Then put them in a dry tub to cure for a week or so. Some of the oil will probably leak back out (hence the dry tub), but once the remaining finish polymerizes, the fibers shouldn't be able to wick water out of the concrete.


----------



## DanKrager

10-4 on leather wicking moisture. Use SA rubber pads available at Walmart and apply them to a very smooth leg bottom. You could put some coats of poly on first to help provide a good surface for the adhesive. Did that for SIL bench and it worked perfectly, adding some grip which probably wasn't necessary because of the bench weight.
DanK


----------



## Mosquito

> Leather might be easier to attach to the wood than rubber? hide glue…
> 
> - terryR


I used rubber cement to glue the leather pads on the bottom of the legs for my workbench. I was apprehensive as to whether or not hide glue would work well on end grain or not, but did think about it.

I've only had my bench inside, so no experience with ground moisture issues, but for that it would sound like rubber may be a better plan.


----------



## TheFridge

2 part epoxy. Used it to attached some leather on the head of a mallet so it doesn't wake the neighbors. I'd go rubber because leather might hold moisture. Just a guess.

Love me some epoxy.


----------



## daddywoofdawg

You could also get some of that spray on rubber as seen on tv,and tape off the sides,so you only get the coating on the bottom.
you can get it a walmart now.


----------



## Boatman53

I have four pads of rubber under mine. It too sits on concrete. No adhesive needed, at almost three hundred pounds it doesn't slide.
Jim


----------



## DanKrager

I hear ya Boatman. i did the SA because when I move the bench, my hands and feet are too busy to kick the rubber around….and I'm to lazy to go get an elf! L0L.
DanK


----------



## jmartel

Why not buy a cheap yoga mat or the cheap anti-fatigue mats, cut it up into oversized squares and put them under the legs? No need to glue it down if you make it heavy enough.


----------



## DanKrager

That awkward moment…......

...when you realize you cut the tails on both pieces?









And….somehow… they went together anyway?









DanK


----------



## rad457

That awkward moment……...

...when you realize you cut the tails on both pieces?

Hey I,ve done that, did not look that good?


----------



## Hammerthumb

How did you get them together? BFH?


----------



## Mosquito

mmm diagonal dovetaiils? been wanting to try some


----------



## JayT

the infamous rising dovetail

Well done, Dan.


----------



## DLK

Didn't think about moisture and leather. Oh well.

So many other good suggestions.

Now I have to decided.


----------



## kiefer

Asphalt roofing shingle will work great have used it on concrete floors for years on support posts in the basement and with a little roofing glue it should stay on well ,.

Klaus


----------



## Buckethead

DAN UR NOT FOOLING ANYONE WE HAVE YOUTUBE ;-)

But the sledgehammer is a nice touch.


----------



## DanKrager

Youtube? There's nothing even close on youtube when I looked. What did you search for?

Not a rising dovetail. Not a diagonal dovetail. Think about it…those are not possible in this exact configuration.

Keep looking….

And there's a price if I have to tell you…!

DanK


----------



## bandit571

For those with skinny 4×4s for legs, They do make a PVC/Plastic box-like contraption that fits onto the ends on the legs. Even has a lug or two for anchor bolts. It is in with the deck hardware section @ Menards. For setting a deck's post on concrete slabs Isolates the two from each other, and allows a few anchor bolts to be used….just in case the Deck Party get a bit rambunkius…...don't want it sliding around…


----------



## Laban

YEEAAAAHHHH I finally get to play along!!!


----------



## JayT

> Not a rising dovetail. Not a diagonal dovetail. Think about it…those are not possible in this exact configuration.


Why not, you never showed us the back?



> Keep looking….
> 
> And there s a price if I have to tell you…!
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Looking again, do I spy glue lines? That would make it a log cabin style double dovetail.


----------



## RPhillips

think JayT's got it… I spy with my little eye…


----------



## Mosquito

> Not a rising dovetail. Not a diagonal dovetail. Think about it…those are not possible in this exact configuration.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not, you never showed us the back?
> 
> - JayT
Click to expand...

Because it's not mitered on the top I guess. At least with the diagonal dovetails at least.

+1 on glue lines


----------



## CL810

> Looking again, do I spy glue lines? That would make it a log cabin style double dovetail.
> 
> - JayT


Me 3


----------



## TheFridge

That is a sweet lookin slab of goodness josh


----------



## DanKrager

OK dudes, you are experts at spotting frauds! Yes, it is log cabin style build. I started down this path looking for a durable joint to handle two way stress for my saw bench till boxes. Want to get another 90% off my list and so I started experimenting. The glue up is a bear for an entire box and it would be difficult to dress the inside of the box. I was wondering to myself if it would be worth the trouble to find more material. I have already selected some, but it wouldn't be enough to do this. Then I got intrigued with the notion of some future auction goer discovering the dovetail dilemma and wondering how did he do that?










So does that mean I can't demand the LV shooter plane now?

And Joshua, I'm glad to see another build going down. While you may think you're playing, that looks like serious work there, man! keep the pics coming!
DanK


----------



## splatman

> ....just in case the Deck Party get a bit rambunkius…...don t want it sliding around…
> 
> - bandit571


 As long as there is no Saint Bernard chained to any of the posts, that is.


----------



## DLK

The base (legs and stretchers) will be completely finished this afternoon I think, I just need to draw bore, chamfer the sharp edges and give a final scraping.

I've decided to give up the fancy dovetail on the outer face and just but joint the end caps unglued with lag bolts. This will allow me to easily up grade the tail vise if I want to. In this version I will install a face vise on the end. I don't perceive any issues, but I thought I should just check in with the experts.

I hope to post another dry fit picture this evening.

Day light here from 6am to 10pm now (which is exhausting).


----------



## duckmilk

> Day light here from 6am to 10pm now (which is exhausting).
> 
> - Combo Prof


Light weight 

Looking forward to more pics, and more pics, and…well, you know what I live for, since I ain't building one.


----------



## DLK

Sorry, I was sick most of yesterday, so did not get very far. There will be pics today I hope.


----------



## mramseyISU

Got the first leg fitted last night.


----------



## ClammyBallz

> My vises are both WoodRiver vises. I have a Large Face Vise and a Large Tail Vise. I am pretty much just taking the screw & nut from the large tail vise. Here are the images of the vises


Do you guys have any feedback on the Woodriver vises? My local woodcraft has them on sale for 50% off. I won't have time until later this year to start make a bench, but I don't want to kick myself later on for not getting them if this is a good deal.


----------



## Laban

Hey Clammy. I do not have a whole lot of knowledge on what to compare them to. I was the one that posted those 2 vises. This is my take on them. Are they Benchcrafted Vises….no and don't even try to compare them. In my opinion it is all based on what you can afford. If this is the level of vise that is in your price range then jump all over getting them at 50% off. After all, a woodriver vise is better than no vise. Expect the same thing you really get out of any other Woodriver product, Good quality for the price. Woodriver planes are good for the price but they are not Lie Neilsons. Woodriver Chisels are good chisels for the price but they are not going to compare to Japanese Chisels or Sweethearts. Thats just my .02. Go with the best you can afford and keep making sawdust.


----------



## rad457

I just picked up the large quick release Lee Valley vise( the cheap green one) and it was $150.00 Can. Had originally bought the smaller normal vise but decided it would be better to have the bigger jaws? looked at the Vertias vises but really did not like the feel or the price!


----------



## DLK

Here is a sequence of photos showing long stretcher to leg joint manufacture for the knock-down Roubo I am building.

1









Tenons and mortise cut.

2









1/2 inch hole drill into mortise center, with forstner bit recesses for the the hex bold head.

3









Drilling 1/2 " by 8" hole into the tenon. I used my upper leg to press against the brace knob, being careful to
avoid my groin.

4









Stretcher was clamped to the the Ash slab that will make up the center of the work bench. You can see the 1/2" by 8" hex bolt that will connect the stretcher to the leg.

5









Drilling a pocket with a 3/4" forstner bit to allow connection for the nut. big enough to accept a wrench.

6









Pocket finished. But I will cleanup the sides with chisel.

7









Using a magnet on a stick to hold the nut so that the hex-bolt can be screwed into it.
8









Tightening up the hex-bolt while holding the knut with a wrench.

9









All tight.

10









Hers is how it looks.


----------



## terryR

Nice work, fellas!

I love mortises!


----------



## Sunstealer73

Just picked up 100bf of ash from a local sawyer. It was air dried for 2 years and then kilned. Got 2 2×19x120 slabs:










And then several other pieces for legs, rails, stretchers, etc.:










Not sure of the exact design yet, but at least I have the wood now. Those slabs would make a nice top, but I'll most likely rip them down to laminate. Trying to get about 30×75 or so for the top.


----------



## Buckethead

Awesome get, sun stealer. Feeling jealous.


----------



## DLK

Draw boring went great. So now the base is done. Seems rock solid. Front long stretcher is birch the rear is maple.










Unfortunately I made a calculation error and will have to increase the width of the top by 2 inches. So I will add 4.25 inches to each side of the center ASH slab. To make a total width of 23.5 inches when done. Should finish between 96" and 100" long and 33.5 inches high. In order to rip extra boards to size, I must first clean up the shop. This will cause a delay.


----------



## rad457

I think 24" would be the narrowest I would consider? At 8 feet + long 26" to 28" would be proportional correct! IMHO.
How did you like working with the Birch compared to the Maple? Same woods I have aquired for my Bench and of course some Walnut trim.


----------



## DLK

The birch were together in the same snickered stack of non-premium 2"by 6" boards I sorted through. Got them and $4.50 a piece. Did not know which was which until I ran them through the planer and actually they seem to mill about the same. I've done some cabinet work with birch and it was fine. Many dealers can't tell the difference in fact the sawmill guy told me he put them in the same stack because he could not tell the difference. See this link.

If you have a tool wall behind your bench you need to be able to reach it. So I think 24" is about max. And even if yo don't and can walk around the bench it is still nice to be able to easily reach the other side and install a clamp say. So again I think 24 inches is max. But it depends what you do, how much room yo have and so forth.


----------



## rad457

That is why I bought the Birch, found a stack Of 20 year old air Dried Birch in a shed and when I ran plane across it seemed harder than the Maple I was buy around here and 1/4 of the price. Did pick up some Hard Maple for the outer edge and vice faces. That looks like quite the Bench you are building, great work on the Mortises, I have been practicing on some much needed shelfs for the work shop.


----------



## Laban

My thoughts is something I believe was said in a Chris Schwarz video and is how I am making my top. I am actually shooting for around 23inch wide top on my bench. Being able to clamp down a standard size carcass from both sides and have a slight overhang on both sides to work on edges one way or the other seemed to be pretty handy to me. That is actually the same dimension of my current tortion box top and I really like it.. If it was going to be against a wall though and really not having access to the back side to flush it up on the front edge if you wanted I could see making it deeper though


----------



## Laban

So I have a question that hopefully someone can answer. I have all my sub assemblies glued up and drying. I will hopefully will be completely assembling the top tomorrow or this evening. I am building a split top roubo style bench except instead of a wagon vise I am using a woodriver large face vise on the end of one of the sections.. My bench will be about 23" x 60". I am builing it iout of SYP that I laminated together.

Here are my questions.
1. When it comes to the end vise I see some people use a large dovetail to attach and end cap to the bench, some use a tenon, some just use a butt joint and lag screws, some use a threaded rod going into the top and some use multiple combinations of these methods. The question is what are the pro's & con's to these methods? Keep in mind this is a relatively small bench and although I want to do things correctly I am not doing things for cosmetic reasons nor am I looking to spend any more time than I have to on this project. I am looking for the fastest but also durable method here. I plan on this bench being my main user for about 5 years while I get some home projects done and save up to build an heirloom quality bench with nice benchcrafted vises.

2. Is there any real benefit to putting endcaps on both ends of both sections of them bench? I see that about 50% of people do it on the end of the section that the vise will be on but most of those are wagon vises. Is an endcap really even needed at all if I am using a face vise on the end instead of a wagon vise?

3. I see that sometimes people use a long threaded rod that spans the width of the top across all the laminations. One of my slabs is 7 boards wide and the other is 8 boards wide (I am using squared up 2×4's) Is that really a needed step? I see the point behind it and may be something I would be concerned with if this was going to be a life long heirloom quality bench but it's not. It is a working SYP bench that eventually one day I will replace with a solid maple bench with benchcrafted vises a few years from now.

That is all I can really think of at this moment. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Tugboater78

Just need some glue added to make a 22"x6'6"x3" slab of oak ( though i think one stick is actually ash )


----------



## TheFridge

Edit:

End caps aren't absolutely necessary. I didn't use them. Just glue will be more than strong enough without threaded rod.


----------



## Iguana

Joshua,

Re:.end cap attachment. A) a dovetail is for show. It is not one long continuous DT across the entire end cap, just the first inch or so. The rest of the endcap is mortise/tenon. B) the key thing with an end cap is to allow for the slab's expansion and contraction against the cap. Typically the front corner is held in place (a dovetail works for this) allowing the slab to move toward the back. There are some advantages to keeping that corner fixed, but it isn't critical. So, you could fix the cap in the middle and let the slab expand front and back.

C) IMO, the tenon is a great way to keep the end cap level with the top, preventing it from slipping down. A couple of well-placed dowels would accomplish the same thing if allowance was.made for slab expansion. But butt joining is just fine if the cap is secured well.

D) lag bolts vs. threaded rod - that's just how the end cap is held in place. No need to over think this. You just want a robust way of fastening the end cap.

2) No need at all for the endcaps if you are using a face vise on the end. You are correct, a wagon vise needs an end cap to retain the screw. But a face vise typically attaches from underneath, no end cap required. You just need to make sure that you cut off the end straight and square.

3) Threaded rod through slab is unnecessary. If you glue and clamp your slabs well, no additional reinforcement is needed. If you don't glue and clamp well, the additional reinforcement probably won't do a thing.

Many here have built solid workbenches with construction lumber. I think most would suggest using 2×10 stock and ripping out the middle to end up with two 3 1/2" - 4" wide pieces. 2×4 can twist, cup, crown, etc. quite badly whereas 2×10s ripped down are thought to be more stable. That aside, construction lumber can definitely make a.sturdy, long-lasting and handsome bench if you build it well.


----------



## DLK

I'm also in the midst of a workbench build and was going to use the fancy dovetail to attach end caps. But as pointed out its not necessary. Then I had an epiphany if I use lag bolts, then I can later swap out the old face vise and change it to a tail vice or wagon vise or do other wise. So thats my plan now.


----------



## Tugboater78

Glueup engaged


----------



## exelectrician

Ha Ha…nice tight fitting double DT's there DanK


----------



## merrill77

Joshua,

I didn't use endcaps on either end of my bench. They look nice, but for me it would have just been extra work with no benefit. Most of us have only glued our benchtops together - no screws, bolts or threaded rods to keep them together. If you've got good flat faces and sufficient glue coverage, there is little need for more than glue.


----------



## Tugboater78

Scrubbin with the #5 from Shannon Rogers.

Some rough cut5ing ends and flattening. Planing at a height of 40" is NOT for me, my arms are doing all the work. The only place i have room to do it atm, raining outside. Planned height for bench is 35" give or take


----------



## Laban

Well here was todays progress






















































Due to the method I am using All of those gaps actually tighten up and will look better after final glue & assembly


----------



## Tugboater78

Ive gotta get my legs squared up, wishing i had a jointer atm but if will have to be done with handplanes. More sweating in my future.


----------



## terryR

Justin, strong work there!

Josh, nice joinery! Looks like you scored some sweet pine for the build.


----------



## DLK

Looking good. I'm waiting on more "new" wood to stabilize in my shop.


----------



## bandit571

Sigh…just get mine all cleaned off…and a bunch of stuff shows up on it









Even the vise was busy…









Need to clear this stuff off…have a plywood panel to cut down, more joints to make…..


----------



## Hammerthumb

Glad to see more benches in process. Good work guys.


----------



## woodcox

Looks good Joshua. I have that same vise as my face vise with 12/4 walnut chop. Only issue I have seen with mine is the plate to affix the chop is not flat on the back, poor casting? 2/3 of the screws for the chop can be tight but the last one, if too tight, starts binding the rods. No biggie but it took me a minute to figure out the problem I was having.


----------



## Laban

Terry - Having a wife that has worked at a lumber yard for almost 18 years has it's benefits! Unfortunately they are a construction lumber yard and I live in SW Florida. No hardwoods or pretty woods. But I can buy the hell out of Pine, Poplar & Cedar! It also helps that since my wife works there I can just run around the yard and grab what I want and not just have to deal with the pile that is up front by the counter.


----------



## Laban

Thanks for the heads up Woodcox, I know they are not the best vises but it is better than my current vise…that would be because I don't have a real vise lol.


----------



## Tugboater78

Was thinking of getting a similar vice to use as a tail vice on my bench.

Any recommendations? I have an old steel vice that was my gramps but it doesnt want to work, maybe i should work on gwtting it up to par.


----------



## Tugboater78

Faceside of front 2 legs after rough squareing


----------



## Buckethead

Man… That oak looks good, tug. The tiger stripes plus the checks/wormholes give it that eternal look. Gonna look awesome.


----------



## Tugboater78

> Man… That oak looks good, tug. The tiger stripes plus the checks/wormholes give it that eternal look. Gonna look awesome.
> 
> - Buckethead


Checks, nailholes with iron staining

One with my soontobe stepson beside it will be the front right leg, just cause of its looks. Other one is the plainest looking, will be covered by legvice chop.

All progress on hold since tuesday till next tuesday, unfortuently. Today and tomorrow busy getting ready for weekend trip to New River Gorge in WV.


----------



## Laban

Well got my bench all glued up, legs assembled and my end vise installed. I ordered my red oak for the end vise to narrow so in the mean time I just used a cut off from one of the 2×12 I used making the bench. Next on the list is my leg vise, the center tool holder/plane stop, long stretchers and cabinet underneath. I am on the home stretch!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Very nice Joshua.


----------



## mramseyISU

Planning on making my final push to get mine done this weekend. I'd work on it during the evenings this week if I had a free one. I started drilling dog holes in the top last night. Once that gets done I'm going to be chopping mortises for the leg stretchers. All that'll be left after that is mounting the vices.


----------



## ssnvet

Any thoughts on mixing species in a Ruobo style bench…

My Hickory is finally dry enough to start working on the top (not that I have any time for it though), but my largest sticks are 4×4 rough and I'm considering doing the David Barron trick, but with 2×6 SPF for the legs.

Any issues with regard to mixing species (differing response to moisture changes or temps)??


----------



## Laban

Hey Mainiac - I have seen alot of people mix species on their benches. Mine will actually have red oak mixed with SYP when I am finished. Even the fancy benches seen in many big tv/internet woodworkers benches are multi-species benches. I don't see why it would be any more of a problem in a bench then in anything else we make.


----------



## duckmilk

Shouldn't be a problem MM. The question has been asked on here before, and the concensus has been it should be no problem, however, the SPF should also be as dry. As Josh says, many people in here have used mixed sepcies, except Stef and myself who haven't even started yet.


----------



## Tugboater78

Mixed species is all the rage

mine will be redoak top and legs half the stretchers, syp for rest of stretchers, walnut for vice chops and deadman.

I have douglas fir ready to get glued together for a second bench… if i get to building it, it will be douglas fir top with syp for all the rest. Probably red oak for vice chops.

Sad that i already have a second bench planned and have been working on first for almost 2 years… and its still not together.


----------



## duckmilk

> Sad that i already have a second bench planned and have been working on first for almost 2 years… and its still not together.
> 
> - Tugboater78


Hahaha! I feel ya. Need to get a shop built myself


----------



## Laban

Got my leg vise ready to go.. just need to shape it now


----------



## terryR

Nice work, Joshua! Bench looks great!


----------



## mramseyISU

Look speed holes.


----------



## DanKrager

I'm whittling away the 90% stuff. Got the till boxes made and mounted on the saw benches. Needs finish and tools fitted. Can I qualify for 95%? LAWL. There are two, one for braces and one for saws. They are interchangeable and can be mounted on the other saw bench. Gotta get my hands dirty and refurbish a small bunch of saws. 

















DanK


----------



## duckmilk

Nice!


----------



## Sunstealer73

Got started with the top glue up tonight. I couldn't get 4" out of my stock, so I'm going for about 3" thickness, probably a little less once it is surfaced. I think I've set on a split-top Roubo-style with a leg vise and a quick release end vise. These strips were all from one ash slab.


----------



## Buckethead

Some great work happening here gents.


----------



## duckmilk

Bringer Of Darkness, good looking top. Is the rest going to be from ash also, or ya gonna mix it up 

Edit: what length and width you shooting for?


----------



## Mikhail

Hi folks.

Been distracted by work, and just starting to get back into the shop.

Split Roubo bench inbound:










Planned it down to 6.25".

I have stopped on more top laminations, until I get the thru tenons for the legs done. Maybe this weekend.

Still catching up on the thread again, still 16 pages back. There has been some very interesting stuff here since my last post. Nicely done folks.


----------



## nhdave

Just thought I'd join the crew and post a couple of pictures of my work bench. 
Dave


----------



## ToddJB

Dave, dang, awesome.


----------



## jmartel

Dang, indeed.


----------



## exelectrician

Dang, Dave, you have a lot to offer … I checked your projects page ,,, I could learn a lot from looking at your work.


----------



## Laban

Okay dave…. I was pretty happy with my bench and then you had to go post that…I will just go turn mine into firewood and start over.


----------



## terryR

+1 to Awesome, Dave!


----------



## mramseyISU

Mikhail that's just obscene. Bravo. I'd shake your hand if you were sitting here.


----------



## BurlyBob

Dave, I got to agree with the, "Dang that's Awesome." Love the bird's eye and black walnut. An outstanding combination.


----------



## Tugboater78

Dave, that is an awesome piece of shop furniture!!


----------



## nhdave

Thanks for all the compliments guys.

Dave


----------



## Sunstealer73

> Bringer Of Darkness, good looking top. Is the rest going to be from ash also, or ya gonna mix it up
> 
> Edit: what length and width you shooting for?


Planning on all ash except maybe the chops for the vises. I have about 100bf, but will probably need a little more to finish out the top. I'm thinking the front slab at 16" wide and the back at 10-12" with a narrow tool well in between. Similar to the 21st Century Bench in Schwarz's 2nd bench book. It will be freestanding, so access on both sides. I work on a 24" wide plywood bench now and seem to always run out of width on my projects, especially when clamping. I'm going for about 84" long regardless.

Here's the first slab after glue cleanup and a light pass over the jointer and planer:










You know you have a big heavy slab when it moves your 8" long-bed jointer! Got a little low spot on the left side closest to the camera. Got really good glue joints everywhere else.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dave, the bench is beautiful. Heck, so is your shop floor! Very nice place to spend time!


----------



## RPhillips

Dave, I'm going to have to see a few more pics of that bench, just to make sure it's really as awesome as it appears!

Nice job! It's a "beaut"!


----------



## duckmilk

Really nice bench and shop space Dave. Love the floors and the outlets at 4' height. Even a 220 outlet.



> I work on a 24" wide plywood bench now and seem to always run out of width on my projects, especially when clamping.
> 
> - Sunstealer73


That's my situation. I would prefer 26 - 28" width.


----------



## Sunstealer73

The 2 become 1:










Really like how it is looking so far. Going to have two tight knots showing on the top. I'm sure I'll be cussing them at some point because they'll be right in the way of something, but too much good wood to waste otherwise.'

Planning to hit some antique places this weekend to look for a couple of decent planes and/or vises.


----------



## Buckethead

OH DAVE…

^swoons^


----------



## nhdave

OK, i've dug up a couple more shots of the bench. The first one is proof it's not furniture, I actually use it.

Dave


----------



## theoldfart

Dave, never mind the bench( really nice one by the way), what about the chest. More pics please.


----------



## RPhillips

Love the bench…

love the WoW chest you have there too… or may Zelda? awwwww too much gaming.


----------



## Tugboater78

Dave, all those pics make me want to ask…

"Can I bring my blankie and sleep on that b.e.a.utiful bench? Just to absorb its awesomeness."


----------



## bandit571

Bench needs a Bondo pose?


----------



## BurlyBob

Dave, your making me so jealous. I've got to get at building me a bench.


----------



## ToddJB

Dave, dang, awesome.


----------



## terryR

Gorgeous!


----------



## DanKrager

I have a perfectly good bench, but Dave's is just SO "I want". Green goo coming your way… I'd have one like this in a heart beat if portable wasn't a factor. Having a leg on both sides of the fence is painful if you're making any sort of progress…

DanK


----------



## kiefer

Dave 
That is one outstanding an beautiful bench and several comments would not do it justice so I won't !
But green is the colour of envy and that is what I got .
More pictures please !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Klaus


----------



## duckmilk

Dave, any pictures of the build?


----------



## RPhillips

Guess I'm way past due for my bondo… I just never felt the bench was done… I really need to flatten the top… again. I also still need to replace the plywood lower shelf with some red oak… but other than that… it's done.

So here it is…










*edit*. yeah, they all looked like poo except for the dog one… so yeah,_


----------



## RPhillips

had to do a selfie… and the laying down one looked we-todd-did, so this is as good as it gets… shop lighting is crap for pics.


----------



## RPhillips

here's how much my top has moved… hope you can see it in the pics. Quite a significant amount. I wish I could just plane it, but the grain is so wicked it just tears out so bad. Guess I'm going to have to set it up to skim it with the router again.


----------



## duckmilk

Good to see you Rob  Oh, wait, second picture isn't it? Good luck with the flattening. Just get it close.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Rob, it doesn't look that bad to me!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Rob, it doesn t look that bad to me!
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Ya, I would actually roll with it for awhile. Let that thing chill for a full round of the seasons. Then hit it diagonally with the jointer plane.

Nice bondo and shop pic man. Where's the project post?;-)


----------



## terryR

Rob, great looking bench and french cleats!
But your bench dog looks anxious, maybe a little liquid courage? 

top looks fine…


----------



## RPhillips

yeah, my bench dog is a little skerred of being up on the bench. lol

I'll take some pic soon and post it up with the project offerings.


----------



## mramseyISU

Anybody free Saturday to help flip it over? It's getting heavy; based off my math just shy of 250 lbs. Just need to finish installing the Veritas chain drive vise and the tail vise and it'll be ready to flip over and give a final flattening.


----------



## jmartel

Only if you pay my flight to/from. Looking good.


----------



## Mosquito

If I didn't hate driving, you're only around 3-1/2hrs from me, assuming your profile is accurate


----------



## mramseyISU

Yeah I'm not serious about you guys helping roll it over I think I can do that without killing myself. The worst part is I need to move it and the sawhorses it's on back about 3' so when I roll it over I don't smack the table saw. I can't roll it the other way without mangling my vise that's on there now.


----------



## exelectrician

Dave you have a lot of lumberjacks sitting on the edge of our seats waiting for more pics of your work, please.


----------



## Tugboater78

> Anybody free Saturday to help flip it over? It s getting heavy; based off my math just shy of 250 lbs. Just need to finish installing the Veritas chain drive vise and the tail vise and it ll be ready to flip over and give a final flattening.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - mramseyISU


Would help if ye werent half 8+ hrs away


----------



## duckmilk

Hey Rob, read this about out-of-flat workbenches.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/a-benefit-of-an-out-of-flat-workbench


----------



## nhdave

OK, found a few more pictures…don't want to flog this to death. The last pic.is the underside showing the tail vise construction with the teak rail.
Dave


----------



## duckmilk

Very nice!


----------



## richardwootton

Dave, excuse my ignorance, but where does the strength of the tail vise's chop come from? How thick is the Birdseye maple? Maybe I'm just not looking at it the right way. Beautiful bench by the way, and I really want to build that tool box!


----------



## nhdave

Richard,
The bird'seye is about 9/16", and the top piece is about 1/2". The face is a solid block. In the underside picture the 2 1/2" threaded maple vise screw has been removed. The end of the shaft fits a pocket in the face block after passing through a threaded 2+" thick maple nut let in to the end piece of the bench. The force is bourne by the end piece, shaft, and face block, not by the maple dovetailed into the face. Not a lot of strength from the bench top downward, hence the reason one is cautioned not to pound or sit on top of a tail vise.

Dave


----------



## TheFridge

That thing is filthy Dave. Filthy awesome.


----------



## woodcox

Solid work Dave!

Another benefit of 23" between the screws…









Trying to relieve bow after resawing with the spritz, sticker and squeeze method-Lol-Going to give them a few days to think about what they have done.
Another with lead and fore plane for measure…








Hoping for results as I am too close for comfort to final thickness in the rough. Should have started with 6/4 for these drawer sides.


----------



## mramseyISU

Holy hell was this thing heavy.

Now I just need to give the top a final flattening and a coat of oil and I'm done.


----------



## rad457

Wow, that is one hell of a Vise, no problem with racking? Got to get started on mine!


----------



## mramseyISU

Not really. The screws are synced up with a chain under that cover and it you do have an issue there is a release on one of the handles so you can skew the faces. It's a pretty great vise.


----------



## DLK

Small question. I'm ready for my penultimate smoothing of the workbench stop. There are some cracks in my workbench slab. Should I fill them before the smoothing or after and then do some scraping and sanding? If so how and with what should I fill with? My plan is to cut thin wedges to drive in to the crack? But is there a better plan?
Maybe just leave them for character?


----------



## DLK

.


----------



## duckmilk

Don, how about some butterflies aka bowties to stabilize the cracks, then fill and flatten?


----------



## DLK

Never did butterflies. Maybe its time to learn. Good idea. I'll do some research. The slam is ash. I suppose a good contrast is in order for the butterflies. Whats are good wood choices? In the dark woods I have some cherry, mahogany, walnut, jatoba, Ipe. My guess is your going to say walnut. Or I have lots of ash, oak, maple, honey locust, hop hornbeam and who knows what else is lying around.


----------



## JayT

Definitely something with some contrast. I'd use the jatoba, personally, but walnut would look good, too. Ipe is too tough to get a good glue bond with the oils.


----------



## duckmilk

Don, here's a good way to do it.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/stop-splits-with-a-wooden-key


----------



## duckmilk

Almost anything is darker than the ash. Contrast is up to you as long as it's hardwood.

You could get fancy like Red 

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/103469


----------



## jmartel

+1 to those decorative butterflies. I like them a lot. Except Red forgot to cut out the notches on the side, so his decorative butterflies turned into bats.

Here's mine that I did. I posted up an example that someone did in a different thread a while ago which red used, and then I did after him.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/105890


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Am I alone in not really caring for the bow-tie / butterfly thing? Should i get a router, cutter, collet, etc. and just do them?


----------



## jmartel

No, I don't care for the look either. I wanted to try it out though, and that was a good project since it wasn't for me anyway.


----------



## DLK

Thanks *Ducky*. After reading Schwarz article I am pretty convinced that they may be a necessity. Still *Smitty* who I have a lot of respect for is repulsed by them. The crack I have is only at most 1/8" in places but runs right down the center. The slab was cut from the center of the tree and has most of the heartwood. The crack of course is on the bow side and not the cup side. (Beam is mostly flat now. The heart was causing me issues in the smoothing because it is harder then its surroundings.) Anyway *Smitty* why do you not care for butterflies in a workbench top and what would be your alternative.

I think if I do this I'll put one every foot all evenly spaced. (Or something like that, so it looks designed.)


----------



## theoldfart

I would find the butterflies distracting. I prefer a uniform looking work surface without visual interruptions. I'm regretting putting cherry strips on mine. jmtcw


----------



## DLK

So what is alternative???? Or do you suggest make them also out of ash so that they won't be distracting.

The worry is according to Schwarz:

Big wood tends to split. And left unchecked, the split can continue to open during the seasonal expansion and contraction cycle.

Heres is another I think instructive article.


----------



## theoldfart

I believe the Schwarz epoxied his cherry bench top and the two slabs were huge.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

+1 for epoxy.


----------



## jmartel

You could always use a circular saw to cut a kerf all the way down the bench parallel to the boards and fill it in with a strip of wood+glue or epoxy.


----------



## leatherstocking

As the prof said, just leave them. It's a workbench. Photos?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Or same wood, as you suggest. The contrast is distracting to me, kinda gimmick-y (if that's a word). Maybe I just don't see them as they should be seen, but haven't liked them since seeing Norm do them on NYW.


----------



## DLK

I do remember a video where Schwarz said he used epoxy. But colored it some how so it would not look like poo.

So what brand epoxy should I use and how do I color it? It also a skill I have not tried.


----------



## jmartel

Mix in sawdust with the epoxy. And you can use pretty much any brand. Loctite is what I have because that's what Home Depot sells. I got the "big" set of the 2 4oz bottles rather than the ones that mix it for you with one plunger since it's a much better deal.


----------



## JayT

Depends on how much epoxy. For smaller fills, I've used 2 ton epoxy from the hardware store and it works well. Don't know if something like West Systems would be better &/or more economical for a larger fill. For coloring, a couple drops of Testor model paint will tint a good amount of epoxy. The Testor paint is inexpensive, easy to find and comes in a multitude of colors.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

CS made it black using a variety of methods. Endedup with some product sold out of art suplly houses, as I recall.


----------



## rad457

I would cut a wedge out of your left over scrap Ash full length of the crack, fill crack with epoxy and tap wedge in!
The trick will be in cutting the wedge the right thickness so to not further split the wood.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^I've used a lot of epoxy on cracks. Only drawback- if the wood isn't fully dry, and is still prone to severe movement…..the wood moves, and the epoxy doesn't. Then the epoxy cracks.

I kinda like bow ties and other inlays when done right. There a bunch of gratuitous bowties in my joinery bench…. just because I wanted the practice. I don't own a router collet/pattern set….nor do I intend to buy one. Bowties, like any other inlay are pretty fun to do with hand tools. Good practice too.


----------



## TheFridge

Instead of a router and collets and whatever. Maybe a good time for a router plane with a couple irons and a set of left and right skew chisels?  I'd say bow tie it for practice if nothing else.

(Just thinking of how I'd do it and not necessarily what may be typical)


----------



## duckmilk

I really want a router plane (someday) and the idea of skew cutters for it would also be interesting. For the bowties, one of those pointed cutters should get into the corners.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I admit, my preferred method is still to use a lectric router with an 1/8" bit to remove most the waste. I just freehand close to the knife line. The rest is all hand tools. I have also done it hogging out waste with an auger bit and router plane though.


----------



## WoodWorkingJunkie

WOW!! I wish I could make them like you guys! my smaller bench cost less then 30 dollars because the top is an old door lol. sure gets the job done tho doesn't it.


----------



## DLK

Thanks everyone. Lots of advice to think about.


----------



## bandit571

Aught to be getting close to that time of day, again?


----------



## rad457

If you say so, but still eating lunch?


----------



## duckmilk

Old doors work when nothing better is made yet.



> Aught to be getting close to that time of day, again?
> 
> - bandit571


You're a few hours late Bandit, started about noon  How's the floor going?


----------



## bandit571

Old back and older knees…barely walk today…Five boxes laid, another six to go. Heat advizory all day today.

Need some youngsters to do this job….I can be a straw boss….

Last of the Killians and BBQ Chicken thighs tonight.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Beech workbench in the scandanavian style, end vise and face vise that had green acme thread vise hardware. Sold at auction for $17.50 right in front of me. Sad, sad, sad.


----------



## Buckethead

Oh no Smitty! How on earth does a beech bench go for that price? And worst of all, not into the right hands.


----------



## BadJoints

Don, I personally despise the look of contrasting butterflies too. However, it is an effective solution to stabilize the wood. I would probably take a two pronged approach. butterfly in the same wood will be close to invisible, and then I would epoxy the rest of the crack to further hide it. I'd definitely mix in some sawdust or other color filler to exactly match the wood. I've never really understood the 'look at me' method of fixing flaws.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Bucket, it did sell to a young guy who had purchased other tools throughout yhe day, so I'll look at it as excellent for him. Just hope he knows (or learns) what it can do for him and really gets used.


----------



## upchuck

> Don, I personally despise the look of contrasting butterflies too. However, it is an effective solution to stabilize the wood. I would probably take a two pronged approach. butterfly in the same wood will be close to invisible, and then I would epoxy the rest of the crack to further hide it. I d definitely mix in some sawdust or other color filler to exactly match the wood. I ve never really understood the look at me method of fixing flaws.
> 
> - BadJoints


I don't despise the look the look of contrasting butterflies. I see it as similar to an ebay auction where the photos include the seller using a red pen to point out any flaws in the item. I prefer that to a piece of masking tape with the price marked on it. The "price tag" located over the flaw that renders the piece unrepairable. Contrasting butterflies are an effective and honest method of repairing and stabilizing a crack. There is a whole sub-set of wood working devoted to deception, disguise, and fakery. Contrasting butterflies seems to me to be the opposite of this sub-set.
chuck


----------



## DLK

Well, I'm just going get the work bench more finished. I have a little over glue issue to clean up first caused when the very heavy top went crashing to the ground off the saw horses. No damage just some glue smearing. Now I get a little help when ever I need to turn it over.


----------



## duckmilk

Don K, I wasn't suggesting anything about contrasting materials, that (apparently ) is a very personal subject around here. However, the butterflies are an effective way to prevent further splitting.


----------



## DLK

Thanks, Duck.


----------



## Buckethead

We'll stated, Smitty. Huzzah!


> Bucket, it did sell to a young guy who had purchased other tools throughout yhe day, so I ll look at it as excellent for him. Just hope he knows (or learns) what it can do for him and really gets used.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


----------



## Laban

Well it has been a while since I posted any pics. I am on the home stretch now. Working on the cabinet underneath currently. I got my leg vise shaped and all my dog holes drilled.


----------



## woodcox

Looks good Joshua! What are your impressions with the I-Box? I think I need one too.


----------



## Laban

Ha nice eye Woodcox. Honestly it was a recent purchase that I have not got to use much yet. I had been eyeballing it for a while and had a couple gift cards to spend so I picked it up. I did a couple test pieces with it and it seems really sweet. I am in the middle of a complete garage remodel that this bench is a part of. I have a blog for that posted on LJ. My plan is to use it on my wall hanging tool cabinet that I am getting ready to start. First impressions of it are pretty high though. I am never disappointed with Incra products.


----------



## TheFridge

Woodcox, check out William Ng's finger/box jointing jig. Works like a champ for smaller 4-5" or less joints.


----------



## woodcox

Good lookin out fridge, thanks!

Gotcha Joshua, I too love my incra stuff. It's adaptivity is appealing.


----------



## Sunstealer73

Finally got back in the shop this morning to work some more on the bench. I ran out of 8/4 ash and my local hardwood dealer only had 4/4. I did have one piece of 12/4 left, so I made 2 more strips out of it for the back part of the split bench along with a leftover 8/4 piece from the front section. I'll be milling down some 4/4 this weekend to finish out the 3-4 more inches of width I need for the back section.










Also got some legs glued up. They're about 3×5 right now. I may glue one more piece of 4/4 on each to get a little more thickness if I have enough stock left after I get the stretchers and rails milled out.


----------



## bandit571

might have a "new" bench vise?









While I doubt IF it is a quick release one. Cost me a whopping $5 this morning….

maybe I can find a place for it???


----------



## Sunstealer73

Top finished, just need to saw it to width, if I can figure out a way to do so since my circular saw won't quite do it and I'm not very good with a handsaw.



















Really happy with the way the laminations came out. Not really any voids, gaps, or problem areas anywhere. There are a couple of knots that I may fill with epoxy at some point. My Dewalt planer had all it wanted taking 1/32" off at a time on that slab. I think I've filled up 3 dust collection bags at this point.


----------



## DLK

Some progress:










Here are some of the worrisome cracks we were discussing.




























I think I will just fill them with dark-grey colored epoxy and forego the butterfils.


----------



## rad457

I thought you had some cracks? First coat epoxy let it soak in then little saw dust mixed with some 5 m in. epoxy and done!


----------



## DLK

> I thought you had some cracks?
> - Andre


Are these not cracks? Maybe I can take a better now that the lighting is more uniform.

Later.


----------



## richardwootton

Don K, the only concern I see is that the pith was left in the piece of stock. Have you already laminated everything together? I was thinking you might be able to run a saw kerf down the pith, or maybe just cut that section out and go from there. But I'll let the experts chime in.


----------



## JayT

Small cracks around a knot and pith there I would just epoxy fill and not worry about. It's a workbench not a piece of furniture.

I'd only butterfly a crack if it was clear through the thickness at the end and threatening to expand and split the whole length.


----------



## rad457

Sorry just my snide sense of humor, They are small cracks, more like checking, still would treat with a thin glue to soak deep into the crack then seal top with epoxy and sawdust.


----------



## CL810

*Sunstealer*, a lot of guys take a few passes with the circular saw, deeper with each pass, and then finish with the panel saw. Kerf from circular saw cut will be helpful, not perfect, as a guide.


----------



## RPhillips

> *Sunstealer*, a lot of guys take a few passes with the circular saw, deeper with each pass, and then finish with the panel saw. Kerf from circular saw cut will be helpful, not perfect, as a guide.
> 
> - CL810


a

I followed this method.

Then I set up a "box" a(more like a sleeve) that slipped over the end of the bench which allowed me to finish the end grain with a router to make it all nice and even. I'll link the video if I can find it.


----------



## RPhillips

Here's the video, go to about the 40 sec mark, see how he has a sleeve around the top, I made one a little deeper and allowed it to over hang my top and then used the router (in the horizontal postion) to cut the endgrain flush, smooth, and square. With a split top, I went across both sections to make them the same length. Hope this helps.


----------



## DLK

I was just about to invent the sleeve method too.  O.K. saw the video and thou similar it is not what I planned, what I planned to do is what you describe. (I had a little drift with the panel saw I need to clean up.)


*richardwootton*: You made me worry.
*JayT*: You made me not worry.
*Andre*: No worries. She'll be right.


----------



## dbray45

In a heavy duty workbench, some checks and cracks can be expected. Put a key in the crack after the wood has dried and it stops moving - about a year.


----------



## DLK

The filling with epoxy went fine. My "new" cabinet scraper came in vey handy. Funny how I often seem to acquire the right tool at the right time. I'd show a picture but I have flipped the top over to mark and make the blind mortises to accept the top. Which leads me to my question. I have to cut a 2" by 3" by 2" deep mortice. What is the easiest (fastest ?) way to do this? My largest mortise chisel is 1/2" I have a 1" firmer. Any advice that does not require an electric mortising machine or electric drill press would be appreciated. (I've started with the 1/2" chisel and can eventually get it done with that, but …..what say you?)


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm..long time, no see









Been awhile since I had a glimpse of that top…Had a lot of white oak stacked up in the way for awhile









Bench didn't fall apart, barely moved. Might be a keeper?


----------



## DanKrager

Combo, would you consider hogging out most of the waste with the biggest auger you can run? That would go quickly and then you would have very little chiseling left.
DanK


----------



## rad457

Plunge router if time is any issue? Put that 1" firmer to work, a lot more Fun!


----------



## DLK

Well I got one done with a combination of the 1/2" morter chisel and the 1" firmer. I found a 1-1/2" bench chisel in my yet to be restored box of chisels. One of the issues of cutting a mortise wider then your chisel is keeping the walls straight. So my solution is to first cut two parallel 1/2" mortises an inch apart and, then hog out the middle. My plunge routers with the bits I have won't get me deep enough. I should order a spiral up bit. I think next I will try with a brace and largest auger I have to hog out what I can. I can clean up the top 3/4 with my trim router. I just can get the last half inch. Yes I know I should have made the tenons shorter.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, use a brace bit with a depth stop. I did all of my mortises in my 4" deep bench top this way. Get rid of most of the waste then finish with your widest chisel.


----------



## chrisstef

Once upon a time i made mortises for the base of a bench. Like OF i used a depth stop on a bit brace, drilled and chiseled. I wonder if theres mice living in there now.


----------



## theoldfart

^ I just hang my tools there now


----------



## Wupper

Well mine is a Spalted Maple bench. My brother in law donated the lumber from his mill if I would build the bench. 
HE requested I use the Maple and I have had it planed, now I glued up part and was going with a split top but the more I think about it the less I want a slot that catches everything but what you want it to. I want mine rather wide but don't have the money to buy the vises. It's going to be slow with the next step levelling it with a1/2 in router bit.

















By the way, I use wax coated butcher paper to cover my other work bench. It keeps glue from getting on the surface and glue won't stick to it, even epoxy.


----------



## rad457

The adventure begins, put of for over a year so decided today to at least start glueing up the Top, Making a Modified Traditional, will be Birch for main core and base with maple frame and vice faces. There is a chance of some Walnut trim for a bit of Bling if I get brave? Did the first glue up this afternoon and went out after supper to smooth of the bottom to check for flatness, not to bad. Them Lie Nielsen Planes are just amazing!


----------



## jmartel

That's a lot of flattening with just that little block plane.


----------



## BadJoints

> That s a lot of flattening with just that little block plane.
> 
> - jmartel


I did the same on my bench. You will feel like you're cheating when you move up to a jointer. No matter how hard you try, you will never get it truly flat with a block plane.


----------



## duckmilk

> Once upon a time i made mortises for the base of a bench. Like OF i used a depth stop on a bit brace, drilled and chiseled. I wonder if theres mice living in there now.
> 
> - chrisstef


Lawl, you could start a fairytale-like children's story with those sentences.


----------



## theoldfart

...and then he drilled and he chiseled and he drilled and he chiseled. But to no avail, the bench still wasn't finished! jus' ball bus'n hehe


----------



## jmartel

Not every fairy tale has a happy ending.


----------



## JayT

Stef's bench is less fairy tale and more Neverending Story


----------



## theoldfart

Ok. I need to understand something here. I can be hypocritical and bust Stef's chops on the Virtual Bench and no one calls me out for being worse than he is! I started before him and ya'll don't give that guy a break. I'm feeling guilty. :-(

It's be kind to Stef week everyone, he can take it, he's tough. Go Stef.

This has been a public service announcement from the LJ 's don't bully LJ's foundation.


----------



## richardwootton

Stef wouldn't feel loved if we didn't razz him on a near daily basis.


----------



## theoldfart

So what your saying is Stef is a masochist? He likes abuse? I just didn't know, disregard my previous post.


----------



## JayT

TOF, my answer to your question involved some diligent research. When I posted the start of my bench build *over two years ago*, here was stef's response:



> JayT - if you beat me out I will sabotage your build.
> 
> - chrisstef


Followed a day later by:



> JayT - you got me skeered bro. You made more progress in a night than ive made in a month. Im sending a crew over to soak the legs in water then turn up the heat. The ensuing twist oughta slow ya down a little
> 
> - chrisstef


And then the day after that, when I had posted about getting the parts for my bench on bench:



> Take your time on it JayT. Not like youre part of a bench off or anything
> 
> - chrisstef


As far as I'm concerned the bench off is still going and I've lapped him multiple times while he's in the pits. Time to step it up and get back on the track.


----------



## bandit571

Just saying….









Just cleaned it off the other day….


----------



## chrisstef

I forgot I posted on here last night but I just had a pretty solid chuckle.

Once upon a time 4 legs walked into a shop. And there they sat. The end.










JayT had to go and dig up the old posts huh. Kind of like my sexual prowess, my mouth making promises my … cant keep.


----------



## jmartel

Nice legs, Stef. What wood is that?


----------



## theoldfart

Stef, this pic is dated 8.7.13!









Pretty quick in geological terms.


----------



## chrisstef

Without going into digging up recent failures, theyre doug fir jmart. Salvaged from a job.

Yup OF it appears that you and I move like rocks. We'll nickname you coal and me diamond. Wait, now I sound like a stripper and you sound like a boat shoe wearing yuppie. Scratch the nicknames.


----------



## theoldfart

I wanna be the stripper! wah


----------



## chrisstef

Edit - sorry for the thread pollution. Ill go back into my cave now.


----------



## theoldfart

they said they wouldn't publish those….......


----------



## jmartel

That's some tight grain on that Fir. Don't see that much anymore. Good find.


----------



## TheFridge

I'd go ahead and slather some wax on that fir so it keeps in storage for the next 20years


----------



## rad457

> That s a lot of flattening with just that little block plane.
> 
> - jmartel
> 
> I did the same on my bench. You will feel like you re cheating when you move up to a jointer. No matter how hard you try, you will never get it truly flat with a block plane.
> 
> - BadJoints


Not going through the Planner, adding about 8" Maple to the front and a Maple tray at the back. The front 8" will be 5" thick to match the Tail Vise and the center filler core about 3" thick. 
Actually did the flattening with a Stanley #6 with a final go over with a Veritas® Low-Angle Smooth Plane. The Top may get a little more attention.


----------



## TheFridge

Wax paper is you friend. I couldn't have done it without it. Though a good piece of ply waxed thoroughly can do a good job on smaller stuff.


----------



## john2005

> Ok. I need to understand something here. I can be hypocritical and bust Stef s chops on the Virtual Bench and no one calls me out for being worse than he is! I started before him and ya ll don t give that guy a break. I m feeling guilty. :-(
> 
> - theoldfart


We were just taught to respect our elders. - Now whats holding you back? You could have er cranked out in no time. You've done all the hard stuff.


----------



## DanKrager

OK guys and gals, he's got all but motivation. Pile on.

Ya, TOF. What's the hold up? I'm pretty sure you've got everything you need, but if there's a new tool that will make it faster or easier, then I'm all for that too! You a collector or a user? Bless your heart!

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

shoulda kept my mouth shut! I have pulled the legs back out. Should begin fitting them this weekend.


----------



## TheFridge

Is this a race now?


----------



## mramseyISU

Finally got it moved to where it goes. Just need to make the bottom shelf and get some finish on it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Need at least two horses to call this a race, Fridge. I'd call it more of a stand off.


----------



## theoldfart

75.1% vs 75.2%? Actually still gotta cut the sliding dovetails for the end caps, could be a ssslllloooowww process!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Beautiful bench mramsey!

I think I said a few thousand posts ago that Stef will post his bench when we least expect it. I think he has it done and is just waiting for Kevin to get started.


----------



## chrisstef

A dumb off is more like it smitty.

If you keep sayin it some day it 'll eventually come true hammer.

Diggin that bench ramsey.

Get er done OF.


----------



## theoldfart

U 2 stef


----------



## rad457

*Finally got it moved to where it goes. Just need to make the bottom shelf and get some finish on it.*

Nice looking bench! Think I would of put something on that wall(sheeting) before putting the bench there?


----------



## mramseyISU

> *Finally got it moved to where it goes. Just need to make the bottom shelf and get some finish on it.*
> 
> Nice looking bench! Think I would of put something on that wall(sheeting) before putting the bench there?
> 
> - Andre


There's a plastic vapor barrier there. One day though I'll hang some drywall in my shop, one day.


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

Wrote this blog post about a Milkmans Workbench i found: http://lumberjocks.com/kaerlighedsbamsen/blog/62986
Thought it might be interesting for you guys


----------



## Mr4speed

I recently inherated a work bench in the style of most of these. I remember that my Dad bought it, and really thought it was cool… But it went into the attic with a bunch of other antiques and projects. I don't recall him putting it to use. 
So, I'm not clear as to what the features and advantages are of these tables. Is there an explaination somewhere of the whats and whys? Sounds dumb I suppose but I'm slightly lost. Thanks! Greg


----------



## DLK

> I recently inherated a work bench in the style of most of these. I remember that my Dad bought it, and really thought it was cool… But it went into the attic with a bunch of other antiques and projects. I don t recall him putting it to use.
> So, I m not clear as to what the features and advantages are of these tables. Is there an explaination somewhere of the whats and whys? Sounds dumb I suppose but I m slightly lost. Thanks! Greg
> 
> - Mr4speed


Most of which? The Milkman's workbench? Or do you mean the others.


----------



## Mr4speed

No, I don't think it's like the milkman one. I'll try to attach a picture. 
Sorry, it's a bit of a mess. Dad was quite a collector and I'm trying to sort everything. 
Is the "trough" area just for holding tools or does it have another purpose?


----------



## DLK

Trough is for just holding tools.


----------



## rad457

The Trough is to collect wood shavings from planning to be used to burnish the wood!


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

Lovely bench there, mr4speed. Its a classic Scandinavian model. Looks like itcould bemade to be a fine user with some TLC. Going to use it?


----------



## Mr4speed

Thank you- I will be using it. It's a bit grimey - would you suggest a wash of tri sodium phosphate or should I use something else? It doesn't seem to have a finish applied, is that appropriate or does it need a coat of something?
Thanks again- Greg


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

Are you spamming us, Pricilla?

Mr Speed: Im sure you will be happy using it. It looks a bit warped and loose in places. I have no experience using tri sodium phosphate but would recomend a wash in the kind of soap used before painting walls etc. Do not know the name in english- we call it grundrens, "base-cleaner". 
I'd suggest thighten the bolts/wedges and glue up any irritating cracks. Then make sure it is dry and acclimated to your workshop before leveling the top. Traditionaly benches were used uncoated (in order to make them non-slippery). Some people even recomend using a toothing plane on them for more grab.
Then at last rub some hard candle wax on the threads and runners for the jaw and start woodworking. Good luck!


----------



## Tugboater78

> Ok. I need to understand something here. I can be hypocritical and bust Stef s chops on the Virtual Bench and no one calls me out for being worse than he is! I started before him and ya ll don t give that guy a break. I m feeling guilty. :-(
> 
> It s be kind to Stef week everyone, he can take it, he s tough. Go Stef.
> 
> This has been a public service announcement from the LJ s don t bully LJ s foundation.
> 
> - theoldfart


I started roughly the same time.. i have a slab on some sawhorses…. and some pieces rough cut for some legs.

Soo…


----------



## Mr4speed

kaerlighedsbamsen - Thanks. I'm guessing that TSP is something similar to the grundrens product you use. It is a strong base chemical that I've used for cleaning before painting and also for cleaning concrete. 
I'm also wondering if I'm missing a piece to one of the clamps. The one at the end of the table has a bolt head exposed inside the clamping area. The other clamp has a wooden follower but a visible bolt like the other.


----------



## Sunstealer73

Thanks for the advice on the sawing earlier. I actually ran into the same problem with my leg blanks. They're too thick even for my tablesaw. I ended up sawing them as much as I could on the tablesaw, then finishing with a handsaw. I don't really have a good panel saw, just a cheapo Stanley Fatmax. It did the job though. I left a little strip, but that cleaned up nicely with my #7 plane. After my problems with handplanes over the years, I never thought I'd be at the point that I could shave off endgrain Ash with one!

I made a mistake in my leg mortise layout, but I'm not sure if it is enough to worry about or not. I planned on the legs, top, and rails all being in the same plane. When I laid out the mortises in the legs out though, I figured a 3/8" reveal. The reason I did it was to give a little more stock in front of the mortise, but forgot about wanting them all flush. The legs and top will still be in the same plane though. I don't think it's a deal breaker, what do you think? The only problem I can see is on the sliding deadman, but I can offset it more to the front to make it come out flush with the legs/top.

Here's the mockup:










I ordered my vises this week. I went with the Lee Valley vise screw for my shoulder vise. I like the Benchcrafted stuff, but it was more than I wanted to spend right now. For the end vise, I went with this one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005W16LVE

I'm not entirely sure how to mount it yet. I'm assuming I'll need to add some stock under the top on that end to bolt it through. I'm planning on making a pretty good sized wooden jaw for it with dog holes too.

One final question to the experts. My original plan was for a one piece top. With that plan, I didn't need top rails since the legs would be mortised into the top. Since going with a split top, I can't decide if top rails are needed or not? I'll be running side stretchers from the front legs to the back and bolting lag bolts through them into the top. Will that give me the strength/sturdiness, or do I need to do rails across the top as well? I would think the bolts into the top would eliminate any racking, but not positive. It wouldn't be an issue to add them anyway, but I'm running out of wood!

Here's a wider shot:


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

> kaerlighedsbamsen - Thanks. I m guessing that TSP is something similar to the grundrens product you use. It is a strong base chemical that I ve used for cleaning before painting and also for cleaning concrete.
> I m also wondering if I m missing a piece to one of the clamps. The one at the end of the table has a bolt head exposed inside the clamping area. The other clamp has a wooden follower but a visible bolt like the other.
> 
> - Mr4speed


Hmm that sounds weird. Can not visualize it right away- is it possible to show a picture?


----------



## duckmilk

> I m also wondering if I m missing a piece to one of the clamps. The one at the end of the table has a bolt head exposed inside the clamping area. The other clamp has a wooden follower but a visible bolt like the other.
> 
> - Mr4speed


Both of your vises look complete to me. I'm not sure what you think is missing. Do they both operate?


----------



## richardwootton

Honestly, I wouldn't even worry much about cleaning that bench up too much. A damp cloth with a little soapy water on would probably do the trick. After that a little linseed oil and you're set. Maybe Danish oil for a little surface protection.


----------



## TheFridge

I think a lag bolt was added after the fact to hold the end cap on.


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

Ahh I'm with you now. The lag bolt at the end is there to keep the end from coming off when thightening the vise. It has been there from the beginning. My bench has one as well. That part is NOT ment to be used as a vise!

Just recalled that our member MaFe made a nice 2 part writeup on how he restored a similar bench (and some interesting history) that perhaps can help you: http://lumberjocks.com/mafe/blog/32844

Let us know how it ends!


----------



## chrisstef

Get your bondo on










Pics on the blog


----------



## duckmilk

Where's the purple wig?


----------



## woodcox




----------



## rad457

Very nice Bench! Looking forward to more details?


----------



## richardwootton

I freaking knew it Stef! How long is that beefy bastard?


----------



## chrisstef

Andre - theres a bit more info on my blog page. Click the blue link below the pose.

RW - shes about 70" long. Give or take.


----------



## TheFridge

I have a functioning work bench that needs the final details done and i think I've just been shamed into finishing it ASAP


----------



## theoldfart

Nuthin' worse than a guy doing a sneaky midnight bench build









Somonabeesch beat me to it!


----------



## ToddJB

No point in finishing now, Kev. To the scrap pile with the bench and your pride.


----------



## theoldfart

ok i give up. gonna buy a workmate


----------



## Mr4speed

Here's a shot of the bolt I mentioned- it is not sunk in at all.


----------



## TheFridge

That's was prob a temporary fix that never got fully fixed.


----------



## ToddJB

That part of the vise is not designed to be used. Does the other part of the vise close all the way?


----------



## Boatman53

That bolt is original. It is a way to discourage clamping in the area. The vise jaw is not designed to take forces from that area. Mine has the same bolt.
Jim


----------



## Mr4speed

And those pegs are mostly for holding pieces in place while working on, not clamping for glueing, etc.


----------



## duckmilk

Just holding pieces in place, and it appears the one closest to the screw is facing backwards?
Nice bench and history. Take good care of it, fix it up…and put it to use like it was intended.
Very happy for you 
And welcome Mr4


----------



## BadJoints

I had suspected stefs bench was complete and in hiding. I like the massive size and how simple it is. It's making me rethink my design now…

Oldfart, keep chugging away, I'm clearly still stuck in the design phase on mine, you'll finish well ahead of me. Also, I'm intrigued by the reversible workhorses you have there, that's an interesting looking idea.


----------



## john2005

Stef, you sneaky SOB. It truly is a blessed day for all of us. Well all except OF.


----------



## widdle

Wow..Big Thangs…Way to go stef…Killer…
Of..looking good..way to bear down boys..


----------



## widdle

> Get your bondo on
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pics on the blog
> 
> - chrisstef


Dude..sorry but , pricillabannet isn't real…


----------



## Hammerthumb

Told you guys Stef was gonna surprise us!

Where's the Crocs?


----------



## terryR

Awesome, Stef!
A real bench!

TOF, not sure I've seen that 3-legged design before?


----------



## Buckethead

Oh happy days in the benchdom! +posts link to young mc's bust a move+


----------



## DanKrager

Well, there's a picture, a tidy looking massive bench, and a bondo pose, so I guess we have to believe it. Congrats on the completion, Stef! I really didn't think you had it in you to keep a secret like that this long! LAWL.

DanK


----------



## rad457

> ok i give up. gonna buy a workmate
> 
> - theoldfart


Hey I just found one at the cabin in the garden shed, looks in pretty good shape, how much you willing to spend? 
Looks pretty "old", might be the one for you! LOL!


----------



## rad457

So do I put the end caps on before the Legs? Thinking I should probably build the the base before chopping some holes into the top! Birch and maple 19" by 75" so far and getting hard to toss around. Having second thoughts about trough, maybe just add couple of more slaps?


----------



## duckmilk

> TOF, not sure I ve seen that 3-legged design before?
> 
> - terryR


Impressive design, even more so than Andre's with one leg shorter than the others


----------



## Sunstealer73

Got one vise mostly installed tonight. I bought 3/8" lag bolts, but needed 5/16. I used some small screws just to make sure everything works right.


----------



## duckmilk

Looks good Sun, do you mean the lag bolts that attach underneath?


----------



## DLK

I was hoping to show off installation of my leg vise today, but I am out of commission.

I spent the morning in the emergency room. I apparently have "benign positional vertigo". So I'm pretty incapacitated and will stay out of the wood shop for a couple of days until it clears up. I'm on anti-vert. This is my second treated episode, but this one is the most severe.


----------



## splatman

> ok i give up. gonna buy a workmate
> 
> - theoldfart


And use it to finish your workbench.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Sorry to hear that Don. Hope it doesn't keep you down long.


----------



## theoldfart

Hang in there Don, should be good as new in a couple of days. This place is good for restoration of rusty old things!


----------



## bandit571

Yep, Vertigo just ain't for sissys….DAMHIKT…

May not be a "WorkBench" , but a lot of work will be going on here…









A benchtop Drill Press is on the other side of the scrollsaw. had to move the sander here, as the brace till needed the other spot. yep, that is a drawer underneath, we found an old dresser down there when we moved in…good place for a lot of things with handles….


----------



## DLK

Thanks for all the well wishing.

*Bandit* I'd never survive in your basement shop, with my mold and dust allergies. (Which contribute to my current malady.)

Very hard to keep upright and read LJ, will sleep some now.


----------



## Sunstealer73

> Looks good Sun, do you mean the lag bolts that attach underneath?


Yes. I bought 3/8's since that's what I was using for the fixed jaw (as seen in the photo), but they're too big for the holes. I hope to get them tomorrow to get it bolted up solid. Then, I'll get my rails and stretchers milled out and attached to the legs.


----------



## duckmilk

Dang, get better Don.

Bandit, what is he referring to? I don't see anything wrong with your shop. It has the same spider webs, dust and saw dust mine has.


----------



## bandit571

haven't a clue….

Well, workbench didn't stay cleared off very long…had a few small things to clean up…









Well…I think I found them all…then I had to put them away, as there be dovetails to chop…..

To be continued…


----------



## DLK

This photo is to show 3 things.

The vertigo has passed and I am up and moving again.
I made some progress on the work bench build. Namely the leg vise is now installed.
I got the Stanley 4 1/2 all dialed in and it makes thin almost transparent shavings.

I do have a small question. I bought the tail vise from Lee-Valley to use as a a leg vise. I was surprised to find that the screws to install it were crap and so I had to go to the hardware and purchase good ones. Did anyone else have this problem? (The screws were square hole driven and drove fine, but if you had to take them off they were toast and could not be driven again. I replaced them with good Philips head screws.)


----------



## rad457

Them square head screws are called Robertson's a system Henry Ford tried to obtain from a Canadian who would not sign over the patent rights so Old Henry did everything in his power to make sure Robertson screws were never used in the U.S. anyways the problem usually is the incorrect driver or possibly made in China screws. Good quality drivers are available from Lee Valley.(If they are allowed into the U.S.) Who knows with this Cuba Love In! the finest fastening system in the world may now be used in your country? The Bench is looking very Good, the Vise has some bite by the looks of it. By the way most of the stuff we get is 50% lead Philips screws!


----------



## DLK

^ Thanks, Andrea. I did first buy a square head driver from True Value, they only had one size, so I assumed it was correct, but it did have a little play. So I think it was a combination of wrong driver and "soft" screws.


----------



## Sunstealer73

For some reason, I assumed these big mortise and tenons would be easier than furniture-sized joints. Five hours later, I finally have a dry fit of the base:










I've got to get the layout done for the leg vise, and I'll be ready for some glue-up!

Bonus shot with leg vise screw sneaking into the pic:


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah buddy


----------



## DLK

> For some reason, I assumed these big mortise and tenons would be easier than furniture-sized joints. Five hours later, I finally have a dry fit of the base:
> 
> - Sunstealer73


I did mine over a few days. The carpal tunnel was painful.


----------



## DLK

> For some reason, I assumed these big mortise and tenons would be easier than furniture-sized joints. Five hours later, I finally have a dry fit of the base:
> 
> - Sunstealer73


I did mine over a few days. The carpal tunnel was painful.


----------



## rad457

That's what I thought about Dove Tails, Had some 8/4 Cedar and decided to build some planters, Dove Tails of course! The thicker and bigger the wood the bigger the mistakes are! This will be a great test for Gorilla Glue!


----------



## DLK

I am about to install Oak end-caps to the Ash top and I have (of course) yet more questions. 
One end will be purely decorative the other end will cover or/and support a face vice.
The first question is do I need to "C-channel" the end-caps or can I just "butt-joint" them.
(both with lag bolts and oversized holes for wood movement. How big should the lag bolts be?)

My problem is that the center 16" wide slab is air dried and still after 2.5+ years moving a a little bit. Been hot and humid the last few days and the MC has increased to 11% (ugh). The 4" wide aprons which have the leg mortices are kiln dried and not moving.

The second question concerns the face vice. Can I attach this directly to the slab or should I first add an end-cap and then attach the vices to the end cap? My plan was to attach it directly yo the slab and then cover the metal face with an end cap. But now I have doubts.


----------



## chrisstef

So my father in law thinks his buddies at work can mill or cold bend somehow, some holdfasts. Bench is 5" thick …. Whatta ya fellers think? Reading schwartz article he had read somethin about some old school mega holdfasts like 1 3/16" thick tree trunks. Does making it thicker and with a longer shaft help with getting a grip in such a thick bench?

Heres the article
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/workbenches/schwarz-workbenches/that's-not-a-holdfast


----------



## widdle

I have the black bear forge and tools for woodworking holdfasts, the black bear forge holdfast I prefer as they have some spring to them and a half tap is all that is needed sometimes. Both makers recommend a certain thickness that has been talked about.3/4" holdfast and dog holes make things interchangeable and even the veritas bench stuff seems to want 3/4" as well.


----------



## richardwootton

Stef, have you tried the gramercy holdfasts? I've been wanting to get the black bear pair, but haven't bit the bullet.


----------



## chrisstef

I have tried any or bored any holes either so im open to anything really.

Im with ya on the 3/4" holes widds. Interchangeable is important.


----------



## jmartel

At 5" thick, I don't the Gramercy holdfasts will work. Stef would have to counterbore the dogholes on the bottom. I have them, and they work great on my 3" top though.


----------



## widdle

Im sure i have a piece of 6x, ill try it …


----------



## jmartel

Ok, you can't tease us with that photo of the walnut slab without saying anything about it…


----------



## chrisstef

Thanks widdle. Boss walnut for sure.

If counterboring is what i gotta do ill take the sawdust in the eyes like a man but if i can avoid it, id love to.


----------



## widdle

Black bear forge ..Says, up to 4". And grammercy, if i recall is like 2 1/2" to 3"..


----------



## Boatman53

So I drilled four holes in my bench today. I've been debating wether to do it or not for about a year. I guess I just needed to get past the newness of the bench, even thought I haven't even gotten any finish on it yet it's about three years old. So here are the holes.










This is what the holes are for.










The previous owner installed these studs and I decided to use them. I could have just screwed it to the bench when I needed it. The holes would have been smaller but this way it just pops in and out when I need it. Easy.










It holds any thickness up to about 1 3/4".




























I'm glad I finally did it, I know it will get used.
Jim


----------



## Boatman53

Here is a pretty interesting bench. Looks like the back legs are splayed. 
Jim
https://hyvelbenk.wordpress.com/2014/06/22/the-vasa-workbench-rebuilt/


----------



## exelectrician

@ Boatman53… 
I would suggest that you put all six screws in. At the present when the wedge is forcing the casting where there no screw it might just snap the casting. My 2 cents…


----------



## Boatman53

Thanks for your thoughts exelectrician. There really isn't much force wedging apart. And the red wedge and the wood both have full contact with the frame so there really is no point loading. I do have the option of adding those middle two screws if I'm going to use it a lot and hard. 
Jim


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…just a random thought went by…

Convert a railroad spike or two into a planing stop? Square off the long end of the head, add a few saw teeth cuts? Happen to had a skinny one in my bench right now. Has a square head (as found) and does fit in my 3/4" dog holes. Might keep on the look out for a couple spikes being sold? Doggies, and stops?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jim, I love it!


----------



## widdle

Yeah Bandit , mabye red could hook us up with some spikes, now that he's bigtime…
Jmart..Its about a small coffee table crotch size gnar gnar walnut ,but only a fat inch thick…Im slowly trying to get it flat, but the twist is bad, and curl is heavy. Hoping to get 7/8" and flat, but i have shoulder that only lets me go for about 15 minutes at a time..Soo its winning..20" inch planer is tempting these days..


----------



## BadJoints

This is my second time typing this….stupid internet….;


> I am about to install Oak end-caps to the Ash top and I have (of course) yet more questions.
> One end will be purely decorative the other end will cover or/and support a face vice.
> The first question is do I need to "C-channel" the end-caps or can I just "butt-joint" them.
> (both with lag bolts and oversized holes for wood movement. How big should the lag bolts be?)


If you "c-channel" them, you've turned it into a breadboard end. This has the benefit of keeping the top aligned and flat. Neither endcap will be decorative at that point, but will improve the structure of the bench. Absolutely this is how I recommend you proceed.


> The second question concerns the face vice. Can I attach this directly to the slab or should I first add an end-cap and then attach the vices to the end cap? My plan was to attach it directly yo the slab and then cover the metal face with an end cap. But now I have doubts.


That is how I would do it. It will be more substantial and stiffer if you attach to the slab itself. My bench is designed the same way.


----------



## DLK

Thanks *Badjoints*. I'm not convinced on a 3.5" think slab a bread board end will have any effect on alinement and flatness, but I think I should wait until winter when it will be much drier and the slab returns to flat before I did a breadboard end. I will however do as suggested with the face vice as an end vice.


----------



## DLK

> Hmmm…just a random thought went by…
> 
> Convert a railroad spike or two into a planing stop? Square off the long end of the head, add a few saw teeth cuts? Happen to had a skinny one in my bench right now. Has a square head (as found) and does fit in my 3/4" dog holes. Might keep on the look out for a couple spikes being sold? Doggies, and stops?
> 
> - bandit571


So you got me thinking about planing stops and I read through the Christopher Schwarz blog on the subject. There was this pertinent response.

BLZeebub
September 26, 2013 at 11:01 am
Been using old cast iron "pop-up" stops for years. Got a couple of railroad spikes turned stops too. They hold paperwork down. I moved the primary stop to just in front of the vise chop. Now I don't have to twerk my way past the vise hub anymore. Dur! Sharp teeth are much preferred too. Dull ones are much more hazardous than sharp ones. To the work, that is.


----------



## theoldfart

Jim, I have the same tool but I don't have the wedge. Could you post a few more pics and dimensions? Thanks.


----------



## DanKrager

Combo, did you happen to put a finish on just one side of your top? That alone could account for its movement out of flat. You are wise to wait until it moves flat again before putting on the breadboards. IMHO it doesn't matter how thick the top is, battens (or breadboards) are helpful in keeping it flat and stable.

Love that bench top wedge, Boatman. You'll find it remarkably useful. I'm glad I made a plywood version and was surprised how often it got used!

DanK


----------



## Boatman53

I'll get all you need at the shop today Kevin. 
It was a lucky find for me. I was at a Craigslist stop for a Hammond 1" strip sander (that someone scooped me on while I was on the way) turns out everything was for sale. I wasn't too upset about the sander 'cause I got an awesome vise, the planing stop and some other thing that I couldn't have afforded if I bought the sander. I recognized the frame right away but I had to search around for the wedge.
Jim


----------



## theoldfart

Jim, I tripped over this in a shop while looking at saws. No wedge.


----------



## DLK

> Combo, did you happen to put a finish on just one side of your top? That alone could account for its movement out of flat. You are wise to wait until it moves flat again before putting on the breadboards. IMHO it doesn t matter how thick the top is, battens (or breadboards) are helpful in keeping it flat and stable.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


 I thought I responded last night. (Stupid website makes me double post and forget to post replies. lol.)

I did not put a finish on yet on either side. Today I start on deadman trench, drill dog holes, end (face) vice.
We'll see how much gets done around the SWMBO list.


----------



## DLK

Speaking of planing stops. These were in one of the old tool chests I bought this summer.



















I guessing that the left one is a planning stop. Is it? (About 2 inches tall and base/peg is about 3/4" square.)

What about the other one? How would it be used?


----------



## JayT

The one on the right looks more like a painter's point type tool, to me, designed to hold work off the surface for finishing. Does it screw into the hole in the planing stop?


----------



## DLK

^ No there are no threads in that hole. However if tapped it would thread in. The painter's point fits into the hole right up to but not including the threads. You can't tell but the supposed planing stops "peg" is only three sided and not solid. Markings on inside looks like some thing round could have been in it.


----------



## Boatman53

Here you go Kevin. PM me your address again so I don't have to go mining and I'll send it off to you.




























Jim


----------



## theoldfart

Uh, wow! Thank you. PM sent (quickly)


----------



## ToddJB

So, that's awesome.

"That" being Boatman's creation and generosity.

Was that a hunk of aluminum?


----------



## Boatman53

Thanks Todd. It's fun having a milling machine. I'm still learning the machine and it was a good exercise. Yes it is a chunk of aluminum. I've been making some sharpening jigs and that was just some of the raw material.

Since we are on plane stops I've got two I think need a new home.the first was installed on my very first bench about 35 years ago when I dismantled it for a move the bench was given away. I don't need it on my new bench and I've got to really start divesting tools. A future move is scaring me, so I'm starting slow.

This one I would like $20 shipped US only. The shaft is six inches long if that helps reference the size. Any questions, just fire away.



























The second one is a little aluminum one LV sells one new for $8.90 so I was thinking about $7 shipped.


----------



## DLK

i suppose the red part sits below the bottom of the bench whereas the planning stop sits above. That must mean the post is 5 or 6 inches. Is it?


----------



## Boatman53

Yes Don, I stated the shaft (post) is six inches long. The red clamping bracket is screwed to the under side of the bench. The lever clamps it where you want it. The shaft diameter is 5/8" as I recall.
Jim


----------



## DLK

Yes you did say that. I missed it. I will think about this and get back to you. But if someone else wants it don't wait on me.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Too cool Jim!


----------



## RGtools

Just lurking. thought I would say hello. Boatman, you are awesome for that chunk of metal.


----------



## Sunstealer73

The base is finally done and attached to the top, both vises also working now. Had some problems getting the parallel guide to work reliably though. My solution was to open it up more on the back side of the leg. I checked one of Schwarz's books last night and he recommended something similar. Still have to drill the dog and holdfast holes, add the shelf, and build removable tool bins for the split. It's 100% ash except for the white oak dowels I used to drawbore the frame.


----------



## DanKrager

That is just gorgeous, Stunstealer. (intentional)

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Sunstealer, well done. Looks solid and displays woodworking skill.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Sweet looking bench Sun!


----------



## duckmilk

> Jim
> 
> - Boatman53


Very nice of you Jim. Kev, now you can put it to work.

Nice job Sun.


----------



## theoldfart

Duck, looking forward to it.


----------



## theoldfart

Something arrived in the mail today.









Works pretty damn good too!









Jim (Boatman53), thank you.


----------



## Boatman53

You're welcome Kevin, it was my pleasure.
Jim


----------



## CL810

Must have….. Hey, what is the proper name for the bench top grabby thing??


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, no idea. Do-Hickey maybe? I would assume some sort of planning stop. Works like a birds mouth.


----------



## widdle

Beachin…


----------



## DanKrager

TOF, I would call it a planing stop. Just sayin', planning is hard enough without the stops.

DanK


----------



## lateralus819

Anyone have a moxon or the like and have issues with it wracking?

I was thinking of screwing two thick plates of steel right under the rods on the front chop so they hit the bench and can't wrack. Wasn't sure if that would work?

Happens when I'm edge jointing and doing have a tall piece of stock to use the full depth of the front chop.


----------



## upchuck

lateralus819-
I can't quite visualize what your talking about. Wracking top to bottom or side to side?
chuck


----------



## lateralus819

Top to bottom.










This is what I had in mind. After drawing I realized it would probably have to be mounted to the bottom of the front chop so as to allow side to side racking.


----------



## Boatman53

I understand what you are dealing with but those vises are not designed to hold things just above the screws. The function is to have the wood between the screws and passing thought the jaws completely. Like for dovetail work. If you are going to clamp mostly as you are describing you have the wrong vise.
Just my two cents.
Jim


----------



## lateralus819

Good point Jim. It does work fine, just seems a pain sometimes for smaller pieces.


----------



## Boatman53

Ok bench builders I've got some vises to part with. First up are a pair of Craftsman 10" new in the box (old stock). Box has some damage but the vise is fine. Even comes with handle and mounting hardware. Not really interested in shipping but we might be able to work something out. 
Craftsman vises. $40 each.



















Next up is a leg vise with my chain to keep the jaw parallel. The screw is a Lie-Nielsen long thread that is no longer available, new it was $85. It was an early prototype if mine and was bolted to a general purpose bench. It was removed when I got the Hovarter quick release vise. It's ready to bolt to a bench and go to work. Again shipping is difficult as you can imagine. I'm thinking $125.




























Jim


----------



## rad457

Got back from the Coast and finally back to my workshop, started fitting the legs, hogged out with router! Started with chisels but decided to save some (lots) of time. Will have to take some time soon to wash the bike!


----------



## Violentlee

I've been meaning to post this for several weeks at the request of several here and just now am getting it on here. What I've done, much to the chagrin of some is build my bench out of PTL. I know it's not the best choice due to the chemicals and the moisture, but I didn't have the cash to buy new lumber and I had more than enough of this stuff laying around. But hear me out on how I did things and see if I still made some good choices.

The design was based on a pretty simple design I found online, then I just altered the dims to work within the space I had and the know work height I like working at, just an inch or so above standard counter height. Since I primarily build electric guitars, this would best suit my needs if kept to around 24"x48". Final top dims ended up being 47.5"x25", so I was pretty close!!!

The whole think is made of 4"x4"s that were stacked with 1"x2"s between each layer for air flow for a month or so outside my garage. They were then moved inside and re-stacked for another couple months. While I don't have a moisture meter, they did seem pretty dry as they cut well, didn't gum up any blades and left behind some nice, non-clumping sawdust. The two leg sections are done with mortice and tenon joints, bolted together so the whole thing could be broken down if needed. The top was made in three sections, due to planer width limitations. I planed all 7 pieces to the same dims, then clamped up two sets of 3 pieces. Once the glue was dry, I planed those two sections to the same thickness along with the one single. I then drilled four equally spaced holes through both glued sections along with the single, then glued and clamped everything together, trying as hard as I could to keep thinks as flat and square as I could to reduce the amount of hand planing. Once all this was dry, I placed the top on the legs, with the cross supports and shelving 1"x4"s already in place and bolted the top down from beneath. I was pretty shocked when I looked at the top after all this and found that the top was so close to level that I didn't need to shim it at all. It was at this point that I broke out my new Japanese hand plane and went to smoothing the top to take out a couple high spots. After only an hour or two, I had it where I wanted it.

I've since added a 4 ½" vice on one end and plans are to add another, slightly larger vice to the side, on the other end as well as drilling out some dog pin holes for both vices. I do plan on eventually, swapping the top out for one of the same size, only a little harder wood later on. I hope to be able to assemble this as a single unit and plane it as such, either with my won planer that I haven't gotten yet, or by using a local mill's planer - he's got a 30" wide planer!!

So there it is; a poorman's wood worker's bench. Including the vice, I only have about $55 in it.


----------



## ToddJB

She looks stout, Vance. That bench will serve you well.


----------



## daddywoofdawg

I have a stack of 4×4 oak I have been thinking would make a good bench,maybe now I will.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice job Vance. I dig it.


----------



## rad457

I could only dream of having a first bench that nice!


----------



## duckmilk

That bench will serve you well (it's better than mine), but I don't see the need for swapping the top for harder wood. Many people have used syp for a top which is what you have since most treated lumber is made from syp. If it ever gets too dinged up to live with, plane it flat again.


----------



## mramseyISU

Finishing touches last night. I got the shelf put on the bench. Stick a fork in it.


----------



## terryR

> - mramseyISU


Very nice! Love the vice setup.
Bondo pose required.


----------



## rad457

Looks great! Got to get back to mine, putting some more thought into vise set up and sliding dead man!


----------



## ToddJB

Very nice, Rams.

+1 to the Bondo


----------



## chrisstef

+2 to the bondo.

Solid work Ramsey and Vance. 2 very nice benches.


----------



## Buckethead

Superb bench Ramsey. The pies is mandatory. Sorry if you're camera shy ;-)


----------



## johnstoneb

Real nice benches.
Vance
One of the things about a soft bench top you don't mar the wood or project you are working on. The benchtop takes the beating. The green tint from the PT looks nice.
Bondo poses from both of you.


----------



## duckmilk

^ Agreed!


----------



## Buckethead

> Superb bench Ramsey. The pies is mandatory. Sorry if you re camera shy ;-)
> 
> - Buckethead


Pies? (*pose)


----------



## terryR

Hmmm…pies?

Heck a bench pie would be a great tradition! LOL.


----------



## terryR

African cherry pie?


----------



## chrisstef

By Stevie Nicks (in your planer knives) ^


----------



## duckmilk

You're supposed to score the tops of your pie crusts.


----------



## Sunstealer73

Got a few coats of Danish Oil and wax on this week. I still need to do the shelf, deadman, and holes for dogs and holdfasts. That didn't stop me from using it to do some leg glue-ups tonight. So nice having enough space to do several at once.


----------



## terryR

> By Stevie Nicks (in your planer knives) ^
> 
> - chrisstef


"Friends, they will come, and they will go…" LOL!

Thanks, Stef, I honestly didn't notice they were so bad. no wonder I have to pull wood through the planer with the 4-wheeler!


----------



## chrisstef

I was just goofin on ya terry. I run mine to the bitter end as well.


----------



## woodcox

Wait for it…


----------



## Lind

Hi Everybody

I made a lengthy blog post about it, but I figured I'd put it up here as well:










Just finished it this sunday. It's my first workbench and my first big build. I've spent somewhere between 80 and 100 hours on it, learning all the techniques as I went along, so it has been a great experience. Cant wait to get started on the next projects!

Especially the tail came out better than I dared hope during the build The picture is taken before I drilled the bench holes:


----------



## theoldfart

WC WOW !

Lind, nicely done.


----------



## chrisstef

WC


----------



## Brit

Well that's put me right off my lunch Stef!

Nice bench Lind.

Is that yours Woodcox?


----------



## CL810

Ok WC, let's hear the story.

Lind, great build! Gonna serve you well on all you future projects.


----------



## woodcox

Haha. No, not mine. Look on top of the bench, hand saws are breaking up its profile a little.

Very nice bench, congrats Lind!


----------



## chrisstef

That a telescope? A microphone? A pleasure device? Why is that bench hollow. Gawd, I need answers!!!


----------



## rad457

Good looking Bench Lind, thanks for the blog, they are not mistakes but part of the learning curve! I have never made a mistake,,,,,, that I didn't learn from! (Really that was the way I designed it.


----------



## Buckethead

Great bench Lind!

Woodcox is holding out on the details. Not the kiss and tell type, WC?


----------



## woodcox

Cannon. 
http://lostartpress.com/pages/forum


----------



## Buckethead

NAO I C IT


----------



## chrisstef

Ohh a cannon. That makes perfect sense now. Wtf?


----------



## DanKrager

A small bench cannon is a woodworking tool that belongs on every heavy bench used to make antiques. Not all antiques are old. A nice piece was made and then distressed using the venerable shop cannon. It was charged with powder, filled with various scraps of this and that, and BOOM! ...instant antique. Saved a LOT of time. Don't see it used much any more… You'll never see an Ikea antique because the stuff can't withstand the shock.
DanK


----------



## DLK

Indeed Dan. True story I knew a crafter who after building cabinets would shoot them with buckshot to give them that wormy wood look. I did not think of this use for the bench cannon. I've only used mine to make deep mortises.


----------



## splatman

And all this time I thought the Bench Cannon was all about defending our hobby.


----------



## john2005

I have no use for, but a sudden need for a bench cannon…


----------



## DanKrager

Oh, and another useful tidbit for the cannon along the lines of defending the craft. When talking to a cranky customer, I sidle down the bench and subtly turn the device in his direction…amazing how the tone changes. Usually gets real quiet. 

And I have a bridge to sell…
DanK


----------



## CL810

I totally can see Dan doing that!! LOL!

(And selling a bridge as well!)


----------



## donwilwol

If I knew a cannon was a common bench building tool, I'd have been building benchs a long time ago.


----------



## rad457

Well Dan, someone bought the London Bridge and look where it ended up! 
Wonder what ever happened to that little cannon I made in shop class many, many years ago?


----------



## DLK

How to make a black powder canon

First one to make an fire it from there bench (with out injury to self an workbench) wins.


----------



## DLK

How to make a black powder canon

First one to make an fire it from there bench (with out injury to self and workbench) wins.


----------



## DLK

.


----------



## jmartel

I was on the cannon crew in college for a year. In this photo. Not sure which one I am. Furthest on the right I think?


----------



## Sunstealer73

What's everyone doing for round 3/4 bench dogs? The pre-made ones seem pricey. Thought of making them with dowels, but what to use as tension/friction?


----------



## Mosquito

I used 3/4" dowels and that was it. Haven't really had any issues with them yet. Some fit tighter than others, but haven't had any fall out on me yet either.


----------



## DLK

My holdfasts don't hold fast now that I have given a wiping finish to the bench. How do I fix this?


----------



## TheFridge

Don't have to worry about them falling through.


----------



## DLK

Huh? My dogs are fine its the holdfasts.


----------



## Mosquito

^ I believe fridge was responding to Sunstealer Don.

I'm not sure I have any advice for you, as I haven't applied any finish to my bench yet, but perhaps wiping out the holdfast holes with a rag with minneral spirits (or something to thin/remove the finish), and roughing up the shaft of the holdfast with some sand paper? That's about all I've got, sorry


----------



## DLK

^ One of the difficulties I guess with forum posting is sometimes its hard to know who is talking to whom.

^ I actually tried wiping out the hole with mineral sprits and there was an improvement but not it was not sufficient. Maybe I need to do so more aggressively.

I poked around the internet:

Tools for working wood does say to rough up the holdfasts with sandpaper. 
Chris Schwarz says this treatment by the English Woodworker always works.
An unknown Steve B writes: "I found that rubbing some violin bow rosin on the shaft of my holdfasts makes them really grab but are still easy to knock loose."

I will try one of these adjustments, probably the dimpling with a nail set, although the bow rosin is intriguing, but means going to the store.

I was just disappointed that they no longer were working when before they worked great. So now I have plugged the holes with 3/4 in doweling while I add finish to the top. I bet had I not finish the bottom first, then I would not have the problem. I hope to have it all working and using the 45 to cut some molding by my 60th birthday… 9 days to go.

P.S. Mos, had I known you did not apply finish your work bench I might have only done the base. We both live where its very dry particularly in the winter and so moisture will not be much of an issue anyway. Still it is looking pretty fantastic with the finish, so I am not unhappy I have done so. I hope there are no more issues…. but there will be.


----------



## DLK

*Update;* Found some 40 grit sandpaper and went round and round the holdfast. It all works again. Bench top finish is on the top grip so all is good in copper country. Just waiting on the deliver of my planer stop and once installed I'll be done.

*More good news*. My tenants who live above the shop. Took one look at the workbench when the returned from Summer for the Fall semester and said I can leave in the bay where they normally park … "its too beautiful to move". However I want to put it near the hand tool wall. So I'll be clearing out that space today and just swap some of the metal working tools and little used power wood working tools like my 6" Jointer to the "Tenant bay" That will give me enough room I hope.


----------



## Bertha

New workbench in my projects!


----------



## bandit571

Well, well…a ghost showed up? Stick around a while!


----------



## DanKrager

Now that's a BENCH! Many traditional features and looks pretty too! Welcome back Bertha. Love that wooden screw on the vise. Did you make that?
DanK


----------



## JayT

> What s everyone doing for round 3/4 bench dogs? The pre-made ones seem pricey. Thought of making them with dowels, but what to use as tension/friction?
> 
> - Sunstealer73


I've got Kreg bench dogs. Work really well and inexpensive to boot.


----------



## DanKrager

JayT, I don't use 3/4" dogs because of the way my bench is designed. If I do another bench I'll arrange for 3/4" holes.

If you take a good hardwood dowel, like maple (but most hardwoods will do), shave a flat that tapers from the bottom end to nothing about 1/2 way up. Take the flat to about 1/3 the diameter at the bottom. Then about half way up the flat, establish a new angle with a chisel, from the half way up to a 1/8" deep cross cut where the taper disappears Then glue and screw a 1/8" T x 1/2" W x 1/3 dog length "spring" to the flat even with the bottom. When it's all dry, shape the "spring" to fit the dog hole as the dowel is pushed in. A light spring action is all that is needed.

Another method is to cut a slot the length of the dowel and drill a hole in it near the bottom. Bend a piece of springy wire to a shallow bow so it sticks out of the slot a bit when the ends are bottomed out in the slot. Then bend a right angle leg to slip into the hole at the bottom of the slot and epoxy the spring into the hole.

I googled "wooden bench dogs" expecting to find common pictures of these arrangements, but not. Then using the trick shown above (somewhere) this picture popped up! (scroll down a bit) Nice, BRK.
DanK


----------



## rad457

Spent some time in the shop and managed to get them legs all cut to the same length and actually got all my stretchers cut and installed! Think I got the sliding dead man figured out but got to head back out to the coast and move Ma into her new Condo so the bench will have to wait again! Give me some time to think about the tail vise, and finish building the trough and end caps!


----------



## bandit571

Now have an end vise all mounted up









Counting some mounting hardware i had to buy…about $12.08 total. had to drill a few more dog holes









Needed my big cordless drill…


----------



## RPhillips

> I was on the cannon crew in college for a year. In this photo. Not sure which one I am. Furthest on the right I think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - jmartel


Oh Snap, JHokie is a VT Alumni? Sweet!


----------



## DLK

Work bench is done:



Thanks for all your help. Almost time for cake!

Do I pass?


----------



## terryR

Hell yes, you pass!
Awesome work!


----------



## theoldfart

And another Smackdown winner


----------



## duckmilk

Passed and then some!


----------



## DLK

Thanks. I figure I'm attending LJ academy and just hoping for passing grades.


----------



## Hammerthumb

You did a great job on that bench Don!

This thread is getting quiet. Need a couple more bench builds to start.


----------



## Violentlee

Paul, I'll be setting more PT SYP out today or tomorrow so I can build another just like the first one. Gonna sell one and keep one. Stay tuned!!


----------



## Brit

Very nice Don. Enjoy it!.


----------



## DLK

Thanks, Andy, Brit, Terry, Kevin. You are among those who inspired me to it. (Kevin, I used the auger bits I bought from you to drill the holes in this workbench.)


----------



## theoldfart

Don I'm pleased they were useful. Have you picked up an auger bit file yet? Good ones are getting harder to find. Check out Andy's(Brit) blog on sharpening, a very useful resource.


----------



## Mosquito

> This thread is getting quiet. Need a couple more bench builds to start.
> 
> - Hammerthumb


With a new shopping coming in in a few days (next Friday), I would really, really like to build a bigger workbench next year… but we'll see what the "shop funds" look like at that point lol


----------



## woodcox

That will be another killer build mos, looking forward to it. Larger splayed leg bench or another style?


----------



## Mosquito

Was thinking another style, but will probably re-read the Schwarz bench book before I get that far. I do quite like the splayed leg, with tool tray that I have now, but it's a little small for what I'd like to have. So far, though, no regrets on my current bench. I love it and it does exactly what I wanted it to (being 'compact' was one of those things)


----------



## CL810

Revised edition of Scwarz's first book coming out soon. I'd like to read it but since no bench build in my near future it's hard to lay the money down.


----------



## Mosquito

Good to know Andy… I only bought a digital version of the first one (Amazon), so wouldn't mind forking out for a hard cover version of the revised edition…


----------



## theoldfart

Schwartz said if you have the first edition no real need to buy the second except to support LAP. Andy, i can loan you either the blue or the red bench book if you'd like.


----------



## CL810

Thanks Kevin but I have both. After building a bench and living with it for a few years I believe one develops opinions about what makes a bench a "good" bench and I'd like to hear how his opinions have changed.

After seeing all the great benches on this thread lately I decided mine needed a "bath." After all, it's coming up on it's second birthday!

Halfway thru it's bath….


----------



## theoldfart

But that's patina Andy. Sacrilege you philistine! Dirty benches rule( and when mines built it'll be dirty er I mean it'll have patina)


----------



## richardwootton

Is that a ROS I see disgracing your bench?? Give that beauty the dignity of a smoother CL810!


----------



## CL810

> But that s patina Andy. Sacrilege you philistine! Dirty benches rule( and when mines built it ll be dirty er I mean it ll have patina)
> 
> - theoldfart


You're right Kevin, but what got to me was the black stains from refurbing and sharpening. I have resolved to keep those things off my bench.

*Richard* the maple has so much reversing grain that I will never attempt using a plane again on that top unless I using a toothing blade like Smitty did.


----------



## richardwootton

Fair enough! I've got to remember that when I glue up my oak bench top. Not a problem with the current pine bench top.


----------



## DLK

> Don I m pleased they were useful. Have you picked up an auger bit file yet? Good ones are getting harder to find. Check out Andy s(Brit) blog on sharpening, a very useful resource.
> 
> - theoldfart


After a full month of waiting my deal on Italian auger-files fell through. So I plan to order from "tools for working wood". I've read most of Andy's blog twice now.


----------



## DLK

> But that s patina Andy. Sacrilege you philistine! Dirty benches rule( and when mines built it ll be dirty er I mean it ll have patina)
> 
> - theoldfart
> 
> You re right Kevin, but what got to me was the black stains from refurbing and sharpening. I have resolved to keep those things off my bench.
> 
> *Richard* the maple has so much reversing grain that I will never attempt using a plane again on that top unless I using a toothing blade like Smitty did.
> 
> - CL810


After this workbench build I now have two benches. One for wood working and the other for restoration and metal work.


----------



## donwilwol

> After this workbench build I now have two benches. One for wood working and the other for restoration and metal work.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I've got 3, I still wind up doing everything on my woodworking bench!


----------



## DLK

> After this workbench build I now have two benches. One for wood working and the other for restoration and metal work.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> I ve got 3, I still wind up doing everything on my woodworking bench!
> 
> - Don W


Discipline Don discipline!


----------



## terryR

Yep, I also find it hard to work on anything other than a proper bench! Even my pine beater. Yesterday, I clamped my nasty Ryobi bench grinder to the bench instead of a lesser table already dirty from grime. When restoring tools, I try to keep most yuck off the bench with layers of packing paper.

I like diagonal plane marks on my benchtop…adds grip IMO…


----------



## DLK

I built a wall down the middle of the two bay garage I work in, so that the tenants upstairs could park in one half. Now we don't want to deal with tenants. So I have wood working on one side and restoration on the other. Great but a little bit of a pain. For example, trying to bring my lathe back to life. I had mechanic tools all over the good bench. (On box-cardboard for protection though.)

The unfortunate consequence of building a nice work bench, is during the build I let all sorts of home repairs slide. Now my high commander is expecting me to do them. So no time for a hand tool project for a while.


----------



## DLK

*Planing Stop installed.*

I bought this from *Boatman*:










I installed it and made a walnut cover.










Here is what it looks like when not in use:










Here is what it looks like when it is in use:










Works great!


----------



## Mosquito

sweet addition Don! I want to add a planing stop to my bench, as I've just been using one of my wooden dogs for a while. Really like the cover too


----------



## DLK

I don't know where you can buy this type of planning stop. But I like it. It probably would be hard to have made.
I'm getting a headache trying to write a paper now. I think I'll sneak home and plane something.


----------



## Boatman53

That looks great Don. Like I said sellers remorse. But I'm glad it went to a good home. If I had thought of the wood cover idea it might have been installed on my bench.
Jim


----------



## DLK

> It probably would *NOT* be hard to have made.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I correct a typo.


----------



## DLK

> That looks great Don. Like I said sellers remorse. But I m glad it went to a good home. If I had thought of the wood cover idea it might have been installed on my bench.
> Jim
> 
> - Boatman53


Thanks for selling it. I was having buyers remorse until it arrived.


----------



## donwilwol

I found one a while ago. Haven't had the courage to start chopping a hole for it.


----------



## DLK

yes it took me a couple of weeks to work up the courage to cut into my nice new bench. That one you have looks interesting your holding it upside down I think. I see the teeth resting on your pinky. The will need to be sharpened.

Or is it assembled wrong?

Wait do I also see teeth at the top too? O.K. you'll have to explain this one.


----------



## TheFridge

Lift and twist maybe?


----------



## Iguana

> I don t know where you can buy this type of planning stop. But I like it. It probably would *NOT* be hard to have made.
> I m getting a headache trying to write a paper now. I think I ll sneak home and plane something.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Lee Valley sells one. http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=31148. I have one, haven't gotten around to/worked up the courage to make a big hole in my bench and install it.


----------



## DLK

^yes knew about that one. The one I installed has a post that goes all the way through the workbench and can be raised to various heights. It is locked in place with a cam lever. It is this type I meant that I cannot find being sold.


----------



## donwilwol

When I bought it, the tag said it was a Sargent patent but I'm not sure. Its a little different than the Sargent patent. I don't believe the hook you see against my pinky goes with it. I'll take some better pictures.


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## john2005

> Thanks Kevin but I have both. After building a bench and living with it for a few years I believe one develops opinions about what makes a bench a "good" bench and I d like to hear how his opinions have changed.
> 
> After seeing all the great benches on this thread lately I decided mine needed a "bath."  After all, it s coming up on it s second birthday!
> 
> Halfway thru it s bath….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - CL810


I'm fast approaching a similar point. Its not the dirt or dings that bother me, I just notice that now that everything has settled and been through a couple seasons, there are a few low/high spots that I don't remember having. Now they are only 32nd-16th variance, but when I set something up to check for level, I am using my tablesaw instead of the bench like I used too. I will likely just hit it with the #8 or #7 and finish up with my #4 that has the back bevel. That worked real well the first time. If I could afford it, I would own one of LNs high angle smoothers for this type of stuff.


----------



## CL810

203's are great but the clamping pad on my first set (large oval shaped) would leave an impression in the wood. The round clamping pads do not. So I saw these on eBay and made a lowball offer that was accepted. Half of what I paid for my first pair. Summer is the time to buy!

Couple of hours in evapo rust and 10 minutes with a Dremel pad.


----------



## DLK

Don W, that must two separate planing stops. I can't figure it otherwise.


----------



## donwilwol

> Don W, that must two separate planing stops. I can t figure it otherwise.
> 
> - Combo Prof


That what I figured too. The small squesr one works OK on my 3/4" holes, so I've been using it like that.


----------



## duckmilk

Don, here is a patent for a Sargent bench stop, not quite like yours.

http://www.google.com/patents/US314058

Also: http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/iron-bench-stop-sargent-type-45264201


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## Sunstealer73

I just finished up a living room set that has taken over my shop and should be able to get back to finishing my bench now. A while back, somewhere on Lumberjocks, someone posted pictures of a plane till that fit under the end of their workbench. I've tried and tried to find it again, but haven't been successful. Does anyone remember who it was or where it was posted?


----------



## donwilwol

> Don, here is a patent for a Sargent bench stop, not quite like yours.
> 
> http://www.google.com/patents/US314058
> 
> Also: http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/iron-bench-stop-sargent-type-45264201
> 
> - duckmilk


Thanks Duck. II had found that patent and its the only one I could find. I think it was a sales gimmick, which worked.


----------



## duckmilk

Sunstealer, it was Fridge.



> Almost there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - TheFridge


----------



## TheFridge

Sun, I love it. Very convenient. Actually plan on squeezing saws, chisels and other goodies under there too. Eventually. Once I figure out some sort of anti racking device I'll post the long awaited bondo.


----------



## DLK

So I have been thinking a lot about making a "new" plane. I have shoulder bursitis now so lifting anything above shoulder height is painful. I like frige's under the table plan, but I have this nice wall of french cleats behind the
workbench which sits 4 inches from the wall. (Bench planes are numbers :3,4,4.5,5.25,5,5,5,6,7,8). So say I put them on the wall what to you think the best arrangement would be, keeping in mind there are other tools to hang too.
It would certainly be easier if I could walk behind the work bench I almost wonder if a a long shelf its best.


----------



## Sunstealer73

> Sun, I love it. Very convenient. Actually plan on squeezing saws, chisels and other goodies under there too. Eventually. Once I figure out some sort of anti racking device I ll post the long awaited bondo.
> 
> - TheFridge


That was it, thanks!


----------



## Lucasd2002

More planning, less wood (so far).

Please poke holes or identify problems/flaws with the design below. I have a large stack of 4/4 red oak, which is why everything in sketchup is modeled as 3/4 or 1" thick. Pay no attention to the colors - they are merely to show different components (plan is for all red oak). My thought is to combine David Barron (legs), Bob Lang (tool trays), and various others with Roubo-style features.

The current modeled size is about 31" x 98" with 5+" split top (front part wider than rear) and gigantor legs with Barron-style assembled through dovetails into the top (everything is subject to change).

I have a Benchcrafted wagon vise, which is not modeled or shown here for the right front end (red end-cap). I have a few dog holes shown, but more would be required, of course. My plan is to have the wagon vise extend close to the right front leg and begin the square dog holes on the opposite side of the front right leg from the vise (i.e., the 4 dog holes shown would be the first 4 dog holes). *Does this make sense?*

I also have an old Record 52 1/2 D (which has sentimental value as it belonged to my dad), which is modeled below (I found a model of a similar vise online). Part of me wants the LV twin screw…

I think I may need a little more overhang on the left side for the Record vise (I would shorten the distance between the legs). I do not currently show a cleat on the front slab for the far-left tool tray because it would partially interfere with the vise. This could be fixed with a few separate cleats or a cutout for the vise.

I would like to do the 'condor tails' for the end cap, but I do not have a band saw. I am not confident that I could pull it off. As a compromise, I though a single large dovetail would work.

I initially planned to make an upper stretcher with dog holes similar to Bob Lang's 21st Century bench, but maybe leaning toward a dead-man.


----------



## Iguana

Lucas,

You most likely will want a dog hole in the middle of the leg. The distance between the dog in the wagon vise's traveller and the first dog hole defines the shortest length you can clamp with that vise. In your drawing, you're looking at 6-7" as that distance, which is a bit long for me.

If you're planning on using that Record vise like a traditional leg vise, you only need enough overhang for the vise to fit. I'd put it as tight to the leg as possible, and give myself about 3" to the left. More overhang won't hurt, either.

Why not go.full Benchcrafted hardware and use a leg vise - plus add the Record on the.back of the.bench? Doesn't work if the bench is against a wall…

I would go (I did go) with a deadman. Adding an upper stretcher would look strange, and added to the thickness of the top, really limit wiat you can get underneath the bench. You can drill some holes in the front edge of the bench, too.

Is there going to be shelving at the bottom?


----------



## ssnvet

Mr. Bill… I think one of the big advantages of the Roubo design is that the front of the legs are co-planar with the front of the top, making it ideal for a deep leg vise and holes for a hold-fast in the front right leg.

You don't have to spend a fortune on Benchcrafted hardware (though it is sooooo nice) to make a functional leg vise. A $40 screw is all you need.

You can put the Record vise on another bench, because of course… one bench is not enough :^)

3/4" layers to your laminated top seems like a lot of layers and work… but if it's what you have, that works.

Do you intend the trays to be removable?


----------



## NinjaAssassin

So, I've made a lot of progress and I think it's quite realistic to have at least the bench sans leg vise complete by the end of the weekend (assuming things don't pop up to eat my time).

I'm really liking the figure and discoloration of the maple for the legs via the various combinations of birdseye, spalting, etc…





































And this is the first time I've been at a point where things were so close to their final dimensions that I could but the ends of the beams together to get an idea of what things will look like…










Sorry everything's rotated. Apparently, all pictures uploaded to LJ's are rotated to landscape and these were all taken in portrait.


----------



## richardwootton

Looking fantastic Billy!


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## terryR

Nice work, Billy. That maple is gorgeous!

+1 to a simple, powerful leg vise. Probably the best tool in my shop.


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## CB_Cohick

That maple is beautiful, and heavy I'll bet. Is that 12/4?


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## NinjaAssassin

Thanks folks!

Chris, yeah they have some weight to them. They're 12/4 and 5 inches wide.


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## Lucasd2002

> Lucas,
> 
> You most likely will want a dog hole in the middle of the leg. The distance between the dog in the wagon vise s traveller and the first dog hole defines the shortest length you can clamp with that vise. In your drawing, you re looking at 6-7" as that distance, which is a bit long for me.
> 
> If you re planning on using that Record vise like a traditional leg vise, you only need enough overhang for the vise to fit. I d put it as tight to the leg as possible, and give myself about 3" to the left. More overhang won t hurt, either.
> 
> Why not go.full Benchcrafted hardware and use a leg vise - plus add the Record on the.back of the.bench? Doesn t work if the bench is against a wall…
> 
> I would go (I did go) with a deadman. Adding an upper stretcher would look strange, and added to the thickness of the top, really limit wiat you can get underneath the bench. You can drill some holes in the front edge of the bench, too.
> 
> Is there going to be shelving at the bottom?
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Thanks very much for responding Mark. I've read the blog about your workbench many times and it's one of my favorites.

For the dog holes, I will either put a hole in/at the front right leg or I will extend the overhang and put the first dog hole on the right side of the leg (so the top of the leg defines the distance between the first and second dog holes).

I like the idea of a leg vise, but I need to (a) limit spending and (b) be realistic about my available time and skill.

Yes, I plan to add shelving on the lower stretchers.

----------------------------------------

I took yesterday off and milled some of my 4/4 red oak. It is pretty twisted and cupped so the milling process took me a long time (especially considering my lack of experience with the milling process).

I ended up with some pieces to glue up for a portion of the 8-foot long bench top (plus a handful of other pieces that will be legs/stretchers/shorter sections of the bench top).










After all the milling, the nine pieces below produced a section that is less than 7 inches wide. The good news is that it easily fits on my jointer.


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## Iguana

Good looking glueup, Lucas. Just a couple.hundred pounds more to go…


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## NinjaAssassin

Chopped the mortises for the legs, cut the tenon, got the legs fit.










It's not the cleanest joinery but it's not the worst ever. The mortise for that leg in the left front of the picture goes into a pitch pocket so I'm not sure if that'll be a problem or not. Anyway, 8 mortises, 8 tenons, drawbore it all, and a a leg vise and it's done. The end is near.


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## Boatman53

Billy, no stretchers? Nice beefy bench though. 
Jim


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## NinjaAssassin

Ah I realize I left words out (d'oh!). Yeah, the stretchers make up the remaining 8 mortises and tenons. Hoping to have the joinery for the stretchers cut and have everything together by the end of the week. Hoping…


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## Thorreain

Here are some pics of my fully finished bench, my labour of love.


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## rad457

Wow you are a man of many Vises! LOL! Is that an epoxy finish?


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## BurlyBob

That's awesome.


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## duckmilk

I'm getting excited to see your finished bench Billy.
Woah Lucas, that looks like a lot of work. I'll just sit here and watch.


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## NinjaAssassin

Thanks Duck, me too.


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## terryR

Awesome, Chris. Love the vise arrangement!

Billy, looks massive still. Cannot wait to see it upright.


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## richardwootton

I found this beauty of a workbench on craigslist. Someone should really snag this gem up! 
http://littlerock.craigslist.org/tls/5245098278.html


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## CB_Cohick

Time for me to get going on a workbench build. That should keep me occupied this autumn and winter at least, maybe then some. This will be my first workbench build, as such I am not shooting for some of the awesomeness I see from the rest of you guys. But I will likely build it, use it for a while, see what I like and don't like, and build another one later. I downloaded Chris Schwarz's workbench book (the 2nd one, with more plans) and am reading it currently. I like the notion of building with what is readily available. Since this is going to be my first bench, loaded with education defects, I think I will go with pine for the material. Not sure on design yet, still looking things over. The biggest constraint I have is on size. I have a small basement shop, and I think 24" x 48" or so is about all the floor space I can sacrifice. The vice selection is the part I am most worried about. I'm not sure what the minimum and maximum should be. Minimally I expect a face vice would be the most useful, followed by a tail vice and possibly a moxon. What do you think? Thanks for all the inspiration, and I will get a blog going to keep up with progress.


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## JayT

> Time for me to get going on a workbench build. That should keep me occupied this autumn and winter at least, maybe then some.


No worries, stef's build took a couple years and the old fart's is going on for longer than that. At least we think he still plans to finish. 

Vises. Some kind of face/leg vise is the most used by most woodworkers and almost mandatory (there are ways to work without vises, depending on your bench, but I wouldn't want to do it) Any other may be nice to have, but aren't necessarily needed, depending on how you work. For example, I built my bench with two iron vises, one on the front and one as a tail vise. After a year of not using the tail vise, I took it off, sold it and won't be building any more benches with one. I've found it much easier and faster to use a holdfast and batten to secure workpieces.

I also use my bench on a bench with twin screw vise very frequently. Lifting the work those extra inches sure makes it easier to do hand cut dovetails and other detail work.

Again, it all comes down to what you build and how you work. Building a first bench out of pine is a good idea. It's cheap and easy to work with. As you use the bench, you'll figure out what works, what doesn't and what would be nice to have. As those new ideas solidify, you may find the current bench just isn't quite right and will have a much better plan and ideas for the next bench.


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## Lucasd2002

I forgot to post this image from last Saturday. This was after I jointed and planed the 7-ish inch wide section of benchtop that I glued up.










I'm on the Stef plan, except mine will be less secret. 2018, here I come.

Next step is thinking about a dog hole strip (and a lot more milling).

---------------------------

Billy, your bench is looking good. I dig those legs.


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## chrisstef

I like your style lucas. Don't go rushing anything or putting firm time frames on your work. 2018 with the possibility of 2019 sounds solid. Nice glue up so far.


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## Lucasd2002

> I like your style lucas. Don t go rushing anything or putting firm time frames on your work. 2018 with the possibility of 2019 sounds solid. Nice glue up so far.
> 
> - chrisstef


Yeah, I didn't mean to insinuate that it will be finished in 2018. More that it may start to look like a bench-like product… possibly. I have no date or expected finish time-frame. I don't want to lock myself into the teens. Maybe the 2020s. Hopefully, before death.


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## theoldfart

Easy on the pressure Jay, I'm still working on it. See….


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## Hammerthumb

Glad to see progress on more benches. That leg vise is outstanding Kevin!


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## chrisstef

Whatcha usin for a garter fart ? Makin one ? The ID of mine had too much slop in it and was a royal pain in the butt to install.


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## rad457

I sort of got stalled out, 3 weeks moving Ma into her new place then came back from the West coast with a cold that just won't go away and trying to get yard ready for winter but did pull the tail vise out and started to figure out how to put that together? Think I might have to put some end caps on the top?


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## theoldfart

Stef, no garter problem. I bought a full kit from Lake Erie so everything went together pretty well.









Also put in the BenchCrafted criss cross.


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## bandit571

Gave the two year old bench of mine a work out last night….









Trying to get a pine plank ar close to flat









End vise was working good, too…









And I made a mess….plane is a Stanley No. 4, T-13…...


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## rad457

Was going to pull out a router when I remembered this old estate find that found its way to my shop, took a little tinkering put the quiet was worth the extra time!


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## terryR

> Stef, no garter problem. I bought a full kit from Lake Erie so everything went together pretty well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also put in the BenchCrafted criss cross.
> 
> - theoldfart


Kevin, my goodness, this ugly vise looks like it's taking up a ton of valuable shop space. I'd be happy to get it out of your way until you actually have a bench for attachment! Will gladly pay shipping, too.


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## theoldfart

Terry, it is taking up space but I won't ship it. You'll have to come and get it (from my cold dead hands), a lot of work went into t!


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## Brit

Kukunyuk has been flagged and flagged because in the words of Clark Gable "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn."


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## Brit

Kevin that leg vise is going to look awesome.


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## theoldfart

Thanks Andy and I've flagged yuky…...several times but I think it will have to wait for Monday.


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## donwilwol

> Kukunyuk has been flagged and flagged because in the words of Clark Gable "Frankly my dear, I don t give a damn."
> 
> - Brit


I think our admins have bankers hours.


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## dbray45

dittos on the leg vise Kevin, nice piece of work.


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## terryR

> Terry, it is taking up space but I won t ship it. You ll have to come and get it (from my cold dead hands), a lot of work went into t!
> 
> - theoldfart


Yes, I can tell someone with love for vintage tools and woodworking has put time in that lovely vise!
Cannot wait for a bench nice enough to deserve BC parts!


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## groyuti

[No message]


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## Slyy

My bench has still looked like this for about 5 months









More time in the near future might mean I actually get some Movement.

Makes a good assembly table though I guess









Internet a ate part of my post:

Kev that leg vise is looking fantastic! The slow roll is sometimes the best route.

The bench builds are looking good boys.


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## theoldfart

Jake thanks but it taken so long I think I could have planted the trees, harvested the wood, and milled it in the amount of time it has taken me to get this far.


----------



## CB_Cohick

Fishing for opinions here, laminated 2×4 or 2×6 for a top? Length will likely be 4 - 6 ft, 24 inches deep.


----------



## jmartel

Buy 2×12's and cut 2 4" wide boards out of it, avoiding the pith in the middle. That's your best option for construction lumber. Just using 2×4's or 2×6's will likely still include the pith in the board.


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## CB_Cohick

Good tip! Thanks.


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## DLK

^ I agree. Also drilling holdfast holes through 6 inches is harder than drill through 4 inches.


----------



## CB_Cohick

> ^ I agree. Also drilling holdfast holes through 6 inches is harder than drill through 4 inches.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I have been thinking some about that, too. This seems like a great reason to find a brace and bit to add to my tool collection. Even if I am only drilling through pine, I can see that not working out well with my cordless Ryobi drill. I think my brother ended up with Granddaddy's brace and bit set. Maybe I can see if he knows where it is and borrow it.


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## chrisstef

My little 12v Milwaukee wouldn't spin an auger bit past the snail in 5" of DF, Chris. You're thinking on the right track. Look for a good 10" or 12".


----------



## theoldfart

If you can find a 14", they're out there, it will give you even more leverage. A 16" is a long shot, haven't seen any in the wild.


----------



## DLK

You can use one of these but you need an electric drill with 1/2"chuck. I used my Dewalt Hammer drill. The issue I had was with the Number 12 Russel Jennings auger bit
was that I got a slightly under 3/4 hole and my Veritas Dogs I bought would fit to tightly. So after drilling all the holes with a brace (because I was and still am convinced I'd have better control to keep it straight) I ran the Milwaukee 2/4" spur auger up and down the holes. Then every thing was a proper fit. My bench is 4" Ash. I had no problems with a using a 12" sweep ratchet Pexto brace to drill the holes. I started each hole with a 3/4" plunge router bit, then used brace and bit, then electric drill and spur auger, and then finished the holes with a 1/4" rounder over bit with the trim router. Made a jig for the brace to keep it straight. Its easier then it sounds. (Braces are cheap and easy to find with a 10" and 12" sweeps. I have yet to find larger in the wild.)


----------



## splatman

Are you talking about drilling dog holes in a bench you have not built yet? If that's so, you can cut grooves across the face of one of the 2×4's/2×6's, then glue the top together. Use a router with a straight bit, or do multiple passes with a circ saw. You'll have square holes, tho. Let the square vs. round dogfight commence! Or use a router with a core box bit, and cut 1/2-deep grooves across 2 boards clamped side-by-side.


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## CB_Cohick

> Are you talking about drilling dog holes in a bench you have not built yet?
> - splatman


Yep, I am in R&D phase for my first bench build. I like the idea of round holes/dogs because I can put one wherever it is needed later on. I understand square has its own advantages.

One thing I was thinking about while reading all the valuable input was that I remember seeing a big ol' beam, probably Douglas Fir, over at ReStore. If I remember correctly it was easily 4" x 10" x 16 feet long. That might make a decent top.


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## chrisstef

The problem with stuff that big and heavy is most of us don't have the gear to mill it properly. Jointing something that big takes a battle ship of a jointer. If you've got someone to farm that work out to its a great idea using big slabs, if not, youre in for a wrestling match. I did it, and lost handily. Took it to the mill where they have a 20" oliver and they finished it up it under a half hour as I sat back and licked my wounds.


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## CB_Cohick

> The problem with stuff that big and heavy is most of us don t have the gear to mill it properly.
> - chrisstef


There's some wisdom. First bench, not my last bench, time to apply the KISS principle.


----------



## Tugboater78

Ill ship ye some of my oak beams…

If they didnt haveso many nails to remove or accidently find with a plane blade i would have a b3nch already i think…

I go try to do more work on it, nick a blade, walk away for a week.. i think i have decided to leave the oak for another day and use the DF i hsve had stickered in shop since before the last snowfall.

May end up with a smaller bench than originally planned, but i really dont have the space for the planned size. Thinking of scaling back to 5' long and slightly less than 24 wide.

More updates in a couple weeks, when i get home.


----------



## CB_Cohick

Thanks for the offer, Tug. But I've located old hardware in boards before with my jointer knives, and I think I may pass on that one, lol. Keep yer nose above water and have a safe trip.


----------



## mounttod

Thought I contribute to the smackdown. Just finished this Roubo up last weekend. Can't wait to start breaking it in. Here is the detailed build album.


http://imgur.com/5jjn8


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## mounttod




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## mounttod




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## mounttod




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## johnstoneb

nice bench


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## terryR

Very clean!
Nice bench!
Looks like you did a great job selecting the pine…knot a single not…


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## NinjaAssassin

> Very clean!
> Nice bench!
> Looks like you did a great job selecting the pine…*knot a single not*...
> 
> - terryR


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## CB_Cohick

> Thought I contribute to the smackdown. Just finished this Roubo up last weekend. Can t wait to start breaking it in.
> 
> - mounttod


That is the design I am leaning towards. Great job! Are you planning on putting in a deadman?


----------



## DanKrager

A photo seems to be missing Mounttod, you know, the one with the famous Bondo pose! You don't get credit for completion until that happens, no matter how nice your bench is. It is worthy of doing it the honor!

DanK


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## mounttod

That is the design I am leaning towards. Great job! Are you planning on putting in a deadman?

- CB_Cohick
[/QUOTE]
Thank you. I would never use a deadman. Modern vises are good enough that you don't need one. There's less than 4' between the legs. Anything that size would only need the front vise. Anything longer I could drill the holdfasts holes in the right leg to aid in support. Through tenons on the top, crochet on the left side and deadman were all things 18th century woodworkers needed. We have modern methods that makes those uneccessary IMO.


----------



## mounttod

> Very clean!
> Nice bench!
> Looks like you did a great job selecting the pine…knot a single not…
> 
> - terryR


s surprising how clear the wood is in those boards.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Thank you. I would never use a deadman. Modern vises are good enough that you don t need one. There s less than 4 between the legs. Anything that size would only need the front vise. Anything longer I could drill the holdfasts holes in the right leg to aid in support. Through tenons on the top, crochet on the left side and deadman were all things 18th century woodworkers needed. We have modern methods that makes those uneccessary IMO.
> 
> - mounttod


I disagree.

Work a panel's edge that's 3' long and enjoy struggling when only six inches of one end is held by a modern vise. Work hasn't changed, interested in the modern solution that eliminates the need for simple, effective workholding. But it's to each his own, right?


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## donwilwol

I use my deadman all the time. As Smitty said, to each his own, but isn't a large part of using hand tools to do the task "old school".


----------



## mounttod

There will always be a time when having that perfect tool or in this case the perfect work holding would be ideal. However, I'm not a hand tool only wood worker. I'm trying to just have fun and be as efficient as possible. For the work I personally do I didn't think I would use it enough to justify building it and also moving it around occasionally to get to something on the bottom shelf. I've also never seen one used on tv, in books or in any online media that I follow. Didn't the whole roubo/deadman revival only recently take place anyways?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Didn't the whole roubo/deadman revival only recently take place anyways?

-I'd peg it to the release of the Schwarz' Blue Workbenches book, which was ten years ago last August.

I'm trying to just have fun and be as efficient as possible.

-Me, too!

I didn't think I would use it enough to justify building it and also moving it around occasionally to get to something on the bottom shelf.

-That's a reasonable point. I have a cabinet built under my Roubo's top that works well alongside a fully functional deadman arrangement. Sliding a board back and forth isn't an inconvenience, and the deadman itself, in conjunction with Stanley #203 clamps, is something I'd never do without should a new bench ever be in my future. The deadman comes out very easily as well, with a little planning during the build.


----------



## CL810

The 203 & deadman combo is probably less familiar to woodworkers than a deadman & holdfast combo. I can't imagine working without the 203. However, I can understand the holdfast being inconvenient with items stored on the lower shelf getting in the way.


----------



## DLK

One can always build a free standing deadman  as needed. However a sliding deadman will offer better stability and I think the better option for the beginner The free standing deadman works better if it can be anchored above or to the bench bottom.


----------



## rad457

*I'd never do without should a new bench ever be in my future. The deadman comes out very easily as well, with a little planning during the build.*

So that's the problem! built the deadman into the bench design but having a small problem getting it installed? 
Too tight of a fit, need another 1/4" lift the get it to go in.


----------



## TheFridge

I made my deadman adjustable and removable


----------



## Tugboater78

> Thought I contribute to the smackdown. Just finished this Roubo up last weekend. Can t wait to start breaking it in. Here is the detailed build album.
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/5jjn8
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - mounttod


Very clean execution!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The "planning" I was referring to was cutting the dado before attaching the top to the leg assy, because retrofitting a deadman would be tougher.

Precision work, Fridge!


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, how deep did you go on the deadman dado?


----------



## Boatman53

I have a very shallow dado in my top because I didn't want to weeken the front edge. My vee on the stretcher has a cutout by the leg vise to remove the deadman. 
Jim


----------



## Boatman53

Here are some photos.

















Jim


----------



## Mosquito

I always had the intention to add a deadman to my bench, but after having used it for 3 years so far, I've yet to do that. I have a couple holes in the non-vise leg for storing my holdfasts when not in use, and I just use those for holding a workpiece instead. It works for now, since my bench is only about 34" between legs, but will most likely have a deadman if I make a bigger bench down the line


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

OF, mine's much like Jim's.


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## TheFridge

Thanks smitty

Made a saw hanger today. Had the idea floating around for awhile. Still have to make others for some dovetail saws and tenon saw. I'm pretty much moving all my hand tools to the bench.


----------



## BikerDad

> Thanks smitty
> 
> Made a saw hanger today. Had the idea floating around for awhile. Still have to make others for some dovetail saws and tenon saw. I m pretty much moving all my hand tools to the bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - TheFridge


Herr TheFridge,

That's an interesting setup. Were it me, I'd probably turn the saws around so the teeth are at the back. Yes, it's not as convenient to grab the saw and go straight to work with it, but you won't have sharp teethies lurking under your bench waiting to gnaw on an errant hand or knee. Although the fact that the look to be hanging under the back edge likely reduces the risk a good bit.


----------



## BikerDad

Update on my build progress….

http://lumberjocks.com/BikerDad/blog/69018


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## BikerDad

> One can always build a free standing deadman  as needed. However a sliding deadman will offer better stability and I think the better option for the beginner The free standing deadman works better if it can be anchored above or to the bench bottom.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Combo Prof


My issue with the bench slave, aka free standing deadman, is that it seems it would get in the way when planing. Have you experienced this?


----------



## BikerDad

> The problem with stuff that big and heavy is most of us don t have the gear to mill it properly. Jointing something that big takes a battle ship of a jointer.
> - chrisstef


Or a Jack plane and #7. Or a router sled. It can be done without a battleship or one of them old-fangled Oliver supertankers.


----------



## DLK

> My issue with the bench slave, aka free standing deadman, is that it seems it would get in the way when planing. Have you experienced this?
> 
> - BikerDad


No I have a sliding dead man.


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## donwilwol

> My issue with the bench slave, aka free standing deadman, is that it seems it would get in the way when planing. Have you experienced this?
> 
> - BikerDad


I made mine semi floating http://lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/33467


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## Boatman53

Bikerdad if I'm see that photo correctly it is from the back side of the bench. So the teeth are towards the back. In the photo the deadman is on the other side indicating the front.


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## BikerDad

> I made mine semi floating http://lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/33467
> 
> - Don W


Don,

I like your solution, no projections past the vertical plane of whatever workpiece is on the deadman. Sadly, it won't work for me, as my bench won't have any overhang. I really like the drawer unit you've got there, I'll be doing something similar with mine.


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## donwilwol

If it's not to late, I'd suggest rethimking not having and overhang. I use it ALOT for clamping.


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## BikerDad

> Bikerdad if I m see that photo correctly it is from the back side of the bench. So the teeth are towards the back. In the photo the deadman is on the other side indicating the front.
> 
> - Boatman53


Yeah, after I caught that it was at the back of the bench, I should have changed what I said. Basically, I'd have the teeth facing INSIDE, rather than to the outside of the bench. It was looking at the photo for the 3rd time as I was composing my post and seeing the deadman that clued me in…


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## Violentlee

After catching some grief about my using pressure-treated lumber for the top on the bench I posted above, I've decided to use this!!


















This is a 3 13/16" thick slab of white ash. This is the last piece cut from a log that was given to me. I had a mill cut the log in 2" boards and this was left on the mill. I decided it would make a killer bench top. Plan is, (once it's dry), to cut the 9' long board in half and square it all up then take it back up to the mill and have him plane it smooth. Then glue it up and mount it to my bench's base.

A two-piece 3 1/2" thick ash bench top sounds like a good idea to me.


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## Violentlee

Double post - sorry.


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## donwilwol

When you say, "once its dry" do you mean when it comes back from the kiln, or in about 3 years you'll have a bench top.

I'd have it perched over a fire pit or something. Maybe working on a green built bench top.


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## Violentlee

I'm taking the long road Don. There is only one kiln locally that I and it's a solar kiln at the same guy's place who cut my wood. He said that it could take several months as the kiln doesn't run all that hot in the winter months.

I've been told by a couple other guys who have 20+ years at mills with drying capabilities that since I'm storing the wood in my insulated garage, the wood could be ready in several months if I can keep the air circulation up. I will also be running the heater as much as I can.


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## donwilwol

I can almost double your 20 years and I doubt Ohio is a lot different than here.

In a couple of months you'll be down to about 14-16% would be my guess.

If you're going to have it inside near heat shortly after being cut, make sure you cap the ends well and turn it often so one side isn't consistently closer to the heat source. This will help to keep it from cupping.

Even with that you'll probably have some checking. If you built it that quick make sure its open air underneath other wise its still going to move.


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## dbray45

I agree with Don but I would add a dehumidifier to the mix. When I get wood from the mill(s), they are 8-12%MC. After some time in my basement, the MC meter doesn't read more than 2%. I always sticker fresh wood (to my basement) and let it sit for 6 weeks or so if I can. I have gotten wood as high as 23% and figured 6-8 months but the wood (again depends upon the species) was showing dry in 3 months or less depending upon thickness.

Once you add a dehumidifier, you will be surprised at the moisture you get out of the space (floor, walls, wood, house). 
Most of the checking cracks that I get are about 5-6 cracks, about 1-2" long. Normal bugs do not like wood this dry, found that I had a nest of ants trying to make a home in my basement but the died from lack of moisture. The dehumidifier also tends to get the space warm (about 80 (F)) which helps in the process.


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## Violentlee

While I'd love to put a dehumidifier in the mix, my problem with that is I'm storing the wood, 20, 9' long, 15-18" wide, 2" thick boards, in my garage. The garage is insulated and pretty well sealed, but still a big open room that I still keep my daily driver in along with my guitar shop. If i were try to dehumidify, I'd run into some serious issues with the car and the guitars. Really, the only thing I can do is to circulate the air that's already there.

The ends of the boards have been seal and the second log that came home sliced up already had some serious checks that I've since cut off and re-sealed at the suggestion of others on this forum. So far, those boards haven't started to check again, yet…


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## Tugboater78

Min distance from bottom of screw and top of parallel guide for a leg vice?


----------



## DLK

> Min distance from bottom of screw and top of parallel guide for a leg vice?
> 
> - Tugboater78


No offense, but your question does not make sense until you specify what you want to optimize, how the parallel guide is constructed, what the material the vice is made of, including its thickness and so on.

Depending on the materials you could in theory put it as close as you want.

Read this article.

But roughly speaking The farther away the screw is from the guide the more clamping pressure you have and the thinner (less stiff) the face can be. The closer to the parallel guide the stiffer you will need the face can be and the less clamping pressure you will have. (It also all depends on how big a board you are clamping.) The closer the screw is to the parallel guide the more force is placed on the guide and the less force is placed on the clamping surface.

Increasing the distance between the screw and the parallel guide board will increases the clamping force.

Also remember you have to have to turn the screw so unless you have very long arms and are very very strong I would not put the screw very close to the floor.

But what you really want is our recommendations. Which is to place the screw approximately 8 to 9 inches from the workbench top and to *place the parallel guide as far below the screw as you possibly can *at least twice the distance from the top i.e 16 to 18 inches below the screw.


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## Boatman53

Don gave you some good advise. If you don't want to bend down moving the pin all the time let me know I offer a chain kit to eliminate the pin all together.
Jim


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## Boatman53

I have workbench problem for everyone to ponder. I'm going to have a booth at a trade show this coming April and want to showcase the chain kits for the leg vise. I will need at least two vises set up to use, I need to transport everything easily, it has to be sturdy for people to try out, easy to set up and break down. Here is my thoughts, let me know what you think. 
First make two leg frames, front and back legs with upper and lower side stretchers vises all set up ready to go. Then build a plywood box to fit between the leg frames. The box has casters on it. For transport the legs can get strapped to the top of the box. When I get to my 8×10 'booth' the box gets lifted off the casters and the leg frames get attached. The wheels are now off the ground so it can't roll anywhere. I was thinking of using bed rail hanger brackets, the kind with the hooks to hang the box. There will be twice as many brackets as on a bed so it should be plenty strong enough. The box is a rigid structure to minimize racking and I can secure inventory in the box. The show is inside, two days so rolling on paved lot and then floor no transport over grass or gravel that I know of.
I don't know if I described it well enough but what are your thoughts?
Jim


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## terryR

Sounds like good advice.

my screw is 10" from the benchtop, parallel guide is just far enough off the floor to allow room for guide wheel assembly. Duuno why I made the chop so darn thick…oak and maple lam is surely stiff enough…all the extra weight just makes use a PIA.

Want Jim's chain, or criss-cross if we sell a few head of stock…one o these days…


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## Tugboater78

Don, i havent read up on it in a while so wasn't sure if there was a magic ratio. What you are saying makes sense and is what i had bouncing around in my head. Basic physics. Trying to figure out in my benchplans if i need to raise or lower my lower stretcher a tad. And/Or put guide above or below it

On paper:
Chop will be oak or walnut just ~ 2" thick 7-8" max width. Tentative height for bench is 37 inches, chop being slightly less. Screw will be no less than 9" from top. Tentatively i will have my 3-4" (depending on my material which i havent measured in a while) stretcher being 6" off the floor.

Using lee valley tail screw

Jim been wanting to try your chain setup since you first came up with it, will have to get with you once i get moving on my build again.

In theory i think your idea on portable bench sohnds viable.


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## jmartel

I think my screw is 10" below the top on my bench. Next bench I would probably increase that to 13-14". Just gives a bit more room.


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## DLK

My parallel guide is as close to the floor as possible and is Ash. My chop is ~2" thick cherry. The screw is 24" from the floor and 10" below the bench top. 37" is a very high bench. It may make it hard for planning, but (10/34)*37 is 10.88 and 37/3 = 12.3 I'd put the screw at between 11" and 12" below the top and I would put the parallel guide as close to the floor as your design will allow. I did not think about this very hard I just followed the diagram in Schwarz's book making small adjustments to fit my actual build. I think 1:2 ratio is a good plan.


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## TheFridge

Yes, it's on the back corner of the bench in the spot where I'll do the least amount of work. Trying to finish something similar for my dovetail and tenon saws. Before long I'll have my chisels, marking gauge, t-bevel, squares, and all the other goodies under my bench. With the most used accessible from the main side of the bench. I do 90% of my work at the bench on a rolling chair and I like to be lazy by rolling around.


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## terryR

Never really considered a bench needing maintenance…

but today I noticed my leg vise wasn't sitting on its' support wheel. Loosened the set screws, little upward pressure with a pry bar, re-tighten the screws, and I'm back to a happy camper! Leg vise moves like new!










Still ready to upgrade to better technology…Jim, can you post a link to a photo of your chain drive? Maybe install ideas? Thanks!


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## terryR

^damn interweb knows I held my iPad upside down for the shot!
LOL!


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## donwilwol

I found the problem Terry. Its not suppose to set on the ceiling.


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## terryR

LOL.
Gravity sucks, doesn't it?


----------



## Buckethead

> LOL.
> Gravity sucks, doesn t it?
> 
> - terryR


It did, but I watched it with low expectations. George Clooney.


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## DLK

^LOL. I thought gravity attracted… not sucks. F = G ( m1 m2 )/r^2 .

But actually this would solve a lot of work shop storage problems. Better show Mos.


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## Tugboater78

Partially crossposted:

So yesterday mornin 6am i had this
A rough cut true 4×8x12'4" beam of douglas fir


















So i cut it in half, or close to half, two 67" lengths









Scrubbed, and jointed, fine tuned and made a sammich, with some glue in the middle. With aome clamps to keep it together.









So this mornin i stropped up the scrubber grabbed a chisel, removed most the clamps , flipped it so i can look at its underdroopers.

Had some very hard knots to chip out.. 









Tried to pull a couple loose ones.. one actually did..

















And time for a scrubbin..









Gonna have some sore shoulders by end of the day..

This was after i replaced a broken drivers taillight ( neighbor's kids bike handle) , broken passenger mirror (deer) on fiances Cobalt. Changed thermostat and topped off coolant in my SRT, checked both her car and my truck for antifreeze level.

I shoulda.. and just did, blog this


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## DanKrager

Wow, Tug, you makin' your own barges now? This is gonna be awesome!
DanK


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## Tugboater78

Bottom of slab is pretty flat, though not a smooth, flat enough to use to joint my apron pieces for glueup

Got battleship row..

One apron in clamps…


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## TheFridge

Good stuff tuggers

Terry, maybe rough up the leg and the back of the block?

As it looks now. I may be too anal about not hanging the LN saws by their handles but I baby all my good stuff.










I've already glued a block in to hang this gents saw. This was before I did any actual work on the block. Clears all dogholes too. 









Next up is some easy access chisel holders to go on back of the till.


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## BikerDad

Some progress over the weekend. Details

A teaser.


----------



## richardwootton

Mos and Mauricio, have y'all noticed Roy's small splay leg bench? It's really similar to both of your benches. I just noticed it in season 35 episode 1.


----------



## Mosquito

Funny Richard, I was about 2 minutes into the intro of that episode when I read this post lol

Yes, mine is very closely modeled after the one he built in season 27, episodes 5 and 6. I can't speak for Mauricio, but I decided to build mine after I saw those episodes on the show


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## BikerDad

Last night I got the tenon on the OTHER end of the front rail (that's the front rail sticking up in the background, in front of the big green bandsaw {aka Papa Griggio}) done. For some reason, I routed that mortise 3/4" deep, rather than 7/8" deep as on the leg vise end. Sigh…

Now only 8 more tenons to go…


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## Lucasd2002

Would it be crazy to "build" a square dog hole strip with:
-multiple 1" thick pieces with 2deg angled sides and a notch in one of the upper corners (about 4" wide to define distance between adjacent dog holes); and
-two outer flat parts approx 3/8" thick sandwiched on either side of the 1" thick pieces?

The other option is to laminate two pieces and then cut/rout out the 2deg dog holes before attaching a single ~3/8" flat part as shown in multiple people's blogs/projects.


----------



## splatman

Not crazy; just another way of doing it. Use spacers to ensure they're evenly spaced. Wrap the spacers with plastic sheet, newspaper or wax paper to avoid glue squeeze-out from gluing them in.
Or, starting with a thick enough plank, cut the dog holes across the face, and include it in the main glue-up like any other piece.


----------



## DanKrager

It'd be my crazy luck to glue the thing in backwards and not realize it until the dogs wouldn't stay down…
DanK


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## Iguana

Lucas,

I wouldn't try to do dog holes as you suggest. Pretty hard to get all the individual pieces lined up exactly.

Instead, I would laminate 2×1" pieces to make a 2" piece. Forget about the 3/8" strip and just cut the dog holes on one side of 2" board, and then glue that board to the next piece of the benchtop.

There's no magic in the 3/8" strip. If you start with a 2" board, and want to be anal about centering the dog holes on a board, 3/8" is the magic number. If you don't care about centering on the board (and with 1" boards, centering is actually going across the whole board), the 3/8" strip is meaningless.


----------



## Tugboater78

> Some progress over the weekend. Details
> 
> A teaser.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BikerDad


Almost at similar stage myself, just a bit more fit and remeasuring to do.


----------



## Lucasd2002

> Lucas,
> 
> I wouldn t try to do dog holes as you suggest. Pretty hard to get all the individual pieces lined up exactly.
> 
> Instead, I would laminate 2×1" pieces to make a 2" piece. Forget about the 3/8" strip and just cut the dog holes on one side of 2" board, and then glue that board to the next piece of the benchtop.
> 
> There s no magic in the 3/8" strip. If you start with a 2" board, and want to be anal about centering the dog holes on a board, 3/8" is the magic number. If you don t care about centering on the board (and with 1" boards, centering is actually going across the whole board), the 3/8" strip is meaningless.
> 
> - Mark Kornell


The dog hole strip is being installed along with a benchcrafted end/wagon vise, so I need to have a dog block that matches the dog hole strip - my plan was to cut the last one off and flip it around to face the opposite direction. My understanding is that the total thickness of the dog strip and dog block should be 1-3/4". The Benchcrafted "SplitTioRouboNotes" pdf does include an option for a 1-3/8" dog strip with dog holes cut out (no 3/8" strip) that includes milling a 3/8" step when excavating the cavity for the end/wagon vise.

In addition to that consideration, I want to make 'David Baron' style dovetailed legs and my plan was to have the dog strip form the portion of the benchtop between the straight tenon and the dovetail tenon. Accordingly, I would need to mill the portion of the legs under the dog strip (between the 2 tenons) to the same thickness as the dog strip.

Maybe I have too many constraints.


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## byerbyer

Well, I'm ready to join the fun of bench building. Building a knock down Nicholson a la Mr. Schwarz's article in the current issue of PWM. I was planning on this design after reading his blog about it last year, but hadn't made the time for it until now.

Lumber is cut to rough length & width and it's been stickered for a little over two weeks. Ready to put steel to wood this weekend.


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## duckmilk

Lucas, no help here. Let us know what you decide to do.

Are you going to blog the build Byer or just post progress pics here?


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## BigRedKnothead

Get your bench on Byer. A beautiful sight.


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## JayT

Rockin' and rollin' Jason. Keep us up to date on progress.


----------



## byerbyer

> Lucas, no help here. Let us know what you decide to do.
> 
> Are you going to blog the build Byer or just post progress pics here?
> 
> - duckmilk


Not sure duck. If I find the time I may blog it, but I'll definitely post progress pics.


----------



## Tugboater78

Havent touched for 24 hrs.. sinful..









Other than the piece for the chop, loving the grain in my reclaimed oak..


----------



## Iguana

> The dog hole strip is being installed along with a benchcrafted end/wagon vise, so I need to have a dog block that matches the dog hole strip - my plan was to cut the last one off and flip it around to face the opposite direction.
> 
> My understanding is that the total thickness of the dog strip and dog block should be 1-3/4". The Benchcrafted "SplitTioRouboNotes" pdf does include an option for a 1-3/8" dog strip with dog holes cut out (no 3/8" strip) that includes milling a 3/8" step when excavating the cavity for the end/wagon vise.
> 
> In addition to that consideration, I want to make David Baron style dovetailed legs and my plan was to have the dog strip form the portion of the benchtop between the straight tenon and the dovetail tenon. Accordingly, I would need to mill the portion of the legs under the dog strip (between the 2 tenons) to the same thickness as the dog strip.
> 
> Maybe I have too many constraints.
> 
> - Lucasd2002


Ah, yeah. The wagon vise adds a wrinkle if you want to take the David Barron approach. Might I suggest round holes? 

I think you could get away with creating a 1 3/4" board by laminating 2 of the 1" boards together. Cut off the 3/8" strip, rout the dog holes, glue the strip back on and then use that between the tenons and through to the opening for the vise. If you want the dog strip centered between the tenons, then this means you need a gap of 1 3/4" between the tenons.

If the gap between the 2 tenons will be less that 1 3/4", then use a router to notch out the board to accommodate the back tenons. The dog strip won't be exactly centered on the gap between the tenons, though.

Doing the wagon traveller the way you suggest - making a long dog strip and then cutting off the last one a reversing it works well. The only thing to consider there is that you are now reversing a short portion of the grain direction. That probably isn't a big thing.


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## Tugboater78

What would you do?

Top of jaw is shy 1 3/4 of top ( or bottom as viewed)

Screw and guides are 1 7/8 above, as viewed, the bottom.


----------



## chrisstef

Chop it like its hot ….


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## JayT

Route/chop out a recess like stef's pic so that the screw just clears and then add a wooden jaw liner to extend above the jaw to the level of the bench top.


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## Tugboater78

Thats what i figured, so need to work on that before i put top on or while i have it exposed.

Working a bit of twist out of my top slab atm.


----------



## TheFridge

Seeing that makes me thankful that I use motorized equipment as much as possible while dimensioning.

Lil somethin somethin for my future complete LN chisel set.


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## Tugboater78

You dont like shavings? 









Though it could be quicker ( if piece was smaller) to use the power tools. I like being able to hear the kids down the street trying to kill one another… Thats what it sounds like anyway, and the sheeiffs deputy that has gone back and forth a few times on my dead end street makes me wonder as well.

Borrowing someones 8" jointer would be nice though..


----------



## Iguana

Fridge, that's an unusual use of a dovetail - to edge join two boards. Looks cool, though. Any particular reason for it?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya'll seen this? Whooduhthunk? Basically a chain-driven moxon turned upright.

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/toms-toolbox/chain-drive-leg-vise-for-roubo?node=4225


----------



## bandit571

> Seeing that makes me thankful that I use motorized equipment as much as possible while dimensioning.
> 
> Lil somethin somethin for my future complete LN chisel set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks a lot fancier than the one I have…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then again, this one is for the cheap chisels I have…
> - TheFridge


----------



## terryR

LN chain vise looks clean. little pricey (as expected)

I finally splurged and grabbed Jim's chain drive! If it's good enough for Dr Yo and Derek Cohen, it'll pass for my shop. LOL.

Pics coming!


----------



## byerbyer

Maiden voyage of my new to me 5-1/2 prepping the aprons for the planet. Great job JayT, many thanks.


----------



## rad457

Some progress, still have some fine tuning to do and get that tail vise set up!


----------



## Tugboater78

Git r dun byer and andre. I took the day off.. fire back up in the am.


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## TheFridge

Mark, it's pretty much just a half blind. Just practicing joinery and different things.




























The little pieces are dividers I'm gonna glue in so the chisels don't bang together when I move my bench.


----------



## byerbyer

Quick recap of the weekend's bench progress.

Gluing up the legs here. I sprinkled a bit of sandblasting sand in the glue to keep the parts from moving when I clamped them up. Worked like a charm.










Improvised planing setup to remove the mill marks from the legs









I didn't get a picture taken of the aprons by themselves, but they're just a 1×10 glued the interior face of the 2×12 apron.

Legs attached to the aprons & the top is glued up.









I'll hopefully get back to it Friday evening and wrap it all up next weekend.


----------



## DLK

> Gluing up the legs here. I sprinkled a bit of sandblasting sand in the glue to keep the parts from moving when I clamped them up. Worked like a charm.
> 
> - byerbyer


Thats interesting trick. How much do you sprinkle per square foot? Will play sand work?


----------



## DanKrager

Re: sand in the glue joint. While it works remarkably well for the purpose of holding in place, what happens to your blades when you cut or plane it?

DanK


----------



## yuridichesky

I've seen some youtube video where guy used just a pinch of table salt for this purpose. I guess small amount of salt is going to dissolve in the glue at the end so blades won't suffer. But I wouldn't do this for my own gluing. I think this sand/salt trick works fine when your next operation is sanding but not planing/chiseling.


----------



## DLK

Thanks *Dan* and *Yuri*. I sometimes glue back to back plywood panels (they tend not to warp if you do this) and they slide on the glue. Thought the sand/salt trick might work. After the glueing I just trim the panels square.
No hand tools would be harmed for my application.


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## byerbyer

> Thats interesting trick. How much do you sprinkle per square foot? Will play sand work?
> 
> - Combo Prof


Schwarz suggested it his article about this bench in issue #221 of PWM.

I was planning on using some sand from the alley (with the big bits sifted out) but my Dad had the sand blasting sand left over from another project. I think play sand would work fine.

Here's a close up of the sand/glue.










It didn't take much. I tried to avoid getting any where I'll be cutting the notch for the lower stretcher to avoid dulling tools prematurely.


----------



## rad457

Think it is Dun! Base is Birch 3"x5" legs, Top is Maple and Birch 5" thick 8" deep for Tail Vise and 3" thick back to the through. Walnut End caps and Vise Faces. Final size 77 1/4" long 25 3/8" deep and 35" tall.
Going to wait awhile before drilling rest of the dog holes for the Tail Vise, thinking about going with the L.V. Pop ups?



































This Qualify for a Bondo?


----------



## Tugboater78

Looks good, now to beat it with a hammer


----------



## ThomasChippendale

4 Inches thick hard maple top


----------



## CL810

Congrats on the bench Andre - it looks great! BUT, no, the dog looks at you sadly thinking, "you kniw you should be on this bench, not me…."

PJ, background story on the bench please!


----------



## woodcox

Nice pj's bench. I don't care what she's been through. She's purdy.

Beautiful work Andre. That second pic is great.


----------



## byerbyer

Nicely done, Andre.


----------



## johnstoneb

Andre, PJ 2 beautiful benches. PJ background especially on the base.


----------



## terryR

Andre, awesome work! Looks huge, and very clean. Love the wood selection…

Looks so nice, we may need a few close up shots! 

Shop looks like a fine spot to live!!!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Very nice bench Andre. Well done!

Don't leave us hangin, PJ. I know there is a story behind that one.


----------



## ThomasChippendale

OK here it goes;

Was living in Hull, Qc, studying at Ottawa U and earning my beer money by making furniture. Built my workbench after finding three 4X12 maple slabs at the Manotic wood yard in Ontario. Used two slabs bolted together for the top and cut-up the third to make the legs.

Large Record vise on the side 15 inches throat purchased at Pascals in Montreal, wish stores like that still existed. The end vise screw bought at Lee Valley in Ottawa. It has seen 35 years of abuse and re-location and has not moved fraction of an inch. Note the 4 tie rods holding the base, guess what I studied in ?

Cheers


----------



## yuridichesky

> ...
> Note the 4 tie rods holding the base, guess what I studied in ?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> - ThomasChippendale


Bridges construction or alike?


----------



## johnstoneb

I spotted the tie rods earlier probably not a lot of racking. 35 years it is looking well.


----------



## rad457

PJ that is one massive hunk of Maple must weigh a ton!

Close up photos will show all the mistakes and there were a few!
How is this Bondo Pose?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Gotta love the Bondo pose while wearing a smock! Well done Andre!

Thanks for the story PJ. Awesome bench!


----------



## ThomasChippendale

Roughly there is 8 cu ft of maple (4 X 12 X 24ft) at 45 lb/ft3 is 360 # + 2 vises at 50# each would be 460#. Say 500# with the tray and rods.

PJ


----------



## rad457

Lucky it's cool around here now or the smock would be all I'd be wearing! LOL

Wonder how long that perfect edge will last?









First D.T. 2nd one turned out better.


----------



## CL810

My mom always said there was something to be thankful for every day.



> Lucky it s cool around here now or the smock would be all I d be wearing! LOL
> 
> - Andre


----------



## DanKrager

Good pose, Andre, and a very nice bench indeed. That will make your woodworking a lot more fun!
DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

A fine Bondo indeed, Andre. And great bench! Long may she wave!

PJ, absolutely a drool-inducing bench you have, thanks for sharing. I'm loving the shop stool in the pics above just as much, if not slightly more. Great piece! Any backstory to that?


----------



## ThomasChippendale

Give me a chance, I just found this forum. I have tons to share but after getting back from real work, I enter the shop and only come out at 21:30. Here is a teaser of what is keeping me out of trouble in the workshop at night, I want it done by Christmas so we can enjoy. I am making 6 drawers for it , one of them will be a humidor, got the hardware today.


----------



## Tugboater78

Legvice guide height? If i look correctly in workbench book he has 4" that seems a bit excessive and leaves me with a very tight space. Meaning no roller guide, maybe some other workaround could be concocted. Thoughts?

I have 5" between bottom of leg and bottom of lower stretcher. Shoulda raised it higher but too late now.


----------



## ThomasChippendale

Back to the topic, a view from under;


----------



## duckmilk

Great Bondo Andre.

Tug, check out Boatman's leg vise chain guide. It eliminates a lot of the problems associated with leg vise guides.
Several in this blog have used them and Derek Cohen did a great write-up on it.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/ParallelGuideGuide.html


----------



## Tugboater78

> Great Bondo Andre.
> 
> Tug, check out Boatman s leg vise chain guide. It eliminates a lot of the problems associated with leg vise guides.
> Several in this blog have used them and Derek Cohen did a great write-up on it.
> 
> http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/ParallelGuideGuide.html
> 
> - duckmilk


It would probably work, but not in the budget atm, at least till after the holidays before can swing it. Ive depleted my "play" money on plumbing..


----------



## duckmilk

PJ welcome, You have a fancy bar inside your shop??? I'd never get anything done with that around;-)



> Give me a chance, I just found this forum. I have tons to share but after getting back from real work, I enter the shop and only come out at 21:30. Here is a teaser of what is keeping me out of trouble in the workshop at night, I want it done by Christmas so we can enjoy. I am making 6 drawers for it , one of them will be a humidor, got the hardware today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - ThomasChippendale


----------



## ThomasChippendale

Its only one stairway away from the shop, and will soon start impeding on my woodworking starting with thanksgiving , Christmass and the superbowl.


----------



## mramseyISU

Anybody else following along with Schwarz's bench building blog this week over on popular woodworking? Pretty cool to watch those beasts come together.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog


----------



## terryR

Yessir, learning tons, too!










Jim's chain drive for my leg vise is in the shop!!! Now give me a month to install. LOL .


----------



## Tugboater78

Been sporadically checking CS blog this week.

I really want to get chainvice.. not in budget atm, playmoney is gone..

Crossposted but todays adventure has started
7:33 am finally enough daylight, been up since 5:00
Checking her stance 








This…









Is going there..









Shall we see where the adventure ends?










Just a bit more shaving..


----------



## richardwootton

Looking beefy Tug!


----------



## TheFridge

Till done. On to the next. Now I need a place for my t bevel, dividers, marking gauge, knife, and square.


----------



## woodcox

A beast on the hoof! 
obtenir sous vos bancs !


----------



## BikerDad

More progress on my bench, details here.


----------



## Tugboater78

Almost there… another dryfit to make sure all fits correctly..

Disassemble again, do some final planing, break some edges, little more trimming. Then start some glueups.


----------



## richardwootton

Justin, solid work! Looks good and beefy.

Bikerdad, that hardware looks so damn sweet! Was the installation hard?


----------



## terryR

Wow, that wagon vise looks sexy. Bench looks great, BikerDad!

Justin, very nice. Sure is cleaner wood than my pine beater…


----------



## terryR

Does anyone have a link handy for the roller bearing typically used to support leg vise screws?

I thought it was Enco, but am overwhelmed by my lack of knowledge!


----------



## Tugboater78

What you mean? Brk has in his blogs somewhere a link to the bearing he used with his screw.


----------



## Boatman53

Terry, you need some slippery plastic? I've got lots, it 3/4" thick, I can cut any size. Just let me know.
Jim


----------



## Tugboater78

> Terry, you need some slippery plastic? I ve got lots, it 3/4" thick, I can cut any size. Just let me know.
> Jim
> 
> - Boatman53


I have a chunk of it i was gonna use myself, for my screw, when i get to that point.


----------



## DLK

> Does anyone have a link handy for the roller bearing typically used to support leg vise screws?
> 
> I thought it was Enco, but am overwhelmed by my lack of knowledge!
> 
> - terryR


It was in Reds blog. the berring he bought was from http://us.essentracomponents.com/


----------



## rad457

Made another Deadman for the Bench, had some hard Maple left over from the stretchers, added a little mass and a lot more holes! Seems to work real good. Waiting for a chance to get into L.V. to pick some Brass Gophers for the Tail Vise. Was supposed to be making doll furniture but got side tracked.


----------



## Iguana

I think you could fit a couple more holes in that deadman, Andre. 

Seriously, that's pretty cool. Any particular inspiration for the shape?


----------



## terryR

Looks good, Andre. The barbie doll looks a little upset, though!

Thanks for the link, Don.

Jim, Thanks, but I actually still have the piece you sent me a couple of years ago! I never installed it.  Since I'm upgrading to your chain drive, maybe I'll use the starBoard to keep more LJ hardware on my bench?

Leg vise re-do, 2nd end cap, and tail vise addition in progress….........


----------



## DLK

*Andre* I see you have "Workbench Barbie". Must be a collectors doll. LOL.


----------



## theoldfart

Andre, looks like you used some double odd buckshot to layout those dog holes!

Great bench.


----------



## CL810

A guy has to have something to do while waiting for the glue to dry! ;-)



> *Andre* I see you have "Workbench Barbie". Must be a collectors doll. LOL.
> 
> - Combo Prof


----------



## rad457

No inspiration involved in the pattern just a grid with a hole every 1/2" in height. This was the 1st deadman I made but never finished as it is a tighter fit and I had that chunk of Walnut I thought looked nicer? The barbie was one of my Daughters that the Grand Daughters now play with, doing a renovation on a 35 year old Barbie house for them. The new Bench is amazing, way more room to store junk on!


----------



## Tugboater78

This is the last time i put these pieces together, i hope
Glued, screwed, bolted, lagged together

Now its time to get finishing touches done such as a legvice, tooltray, endcaps, etc..

Oh and an actual finish.


----------



## BikerDad

> Bikerdad, that hardware looks so damn sweet! Was the installation hard?
> 
> - richardwootton


Easier than I thought it would be, but a bit fiddly. The biggest challenge was the relative depth of the mortise. Too deep to do entirely with a router, took a bit of handwork to get to depth.


----------



## TheFridge

Churning it out tug. Keep it up tug.


----------



## terryR

Looks great, Tug.
I love the sawhorses standing idly around!

Spent most of my day shaping the new chop for leg vise. Less weight, classic shape, and a little bling.


----------



## anthm27

A lot of nice benches out there, wow

This is my latest, I built it on my roof top yesterday in order to get a start on my outdoor furniture.

Every piece of wood or ply I found on the village rubbish bin site a few hours before I knocked it together.

Not a lot of room in Hong Kong so we keep it simple. 
Oh, I like them High also, this one 1100 mm to use drop saw is good, find that height doubles as a bar after pack up time.

Kind Regards
Anthm


----------



## Tugboater78

Nice one anthm, though i do hope you your nethers arnt getting sunburnt!


----------



## anthm27

> Nice one anthm, though i do hope you your nethers arnt getting sunburnt!
> 
> - Tugboater78


No, I had shorts on at the time I think, but that roof top has seen a lot though


----------



## chrisstef

That poor poor rooftop lol.


----------



## rad457

*Now its time to get finishing touches done such as a legvice, tooltray, endcaps, etc..*

Now the real fun starts! Still not 100% happy with my Tail Vise and need to scrap some glue of the End caps!

*Oh, I like them High also, this one 1100 mm to use drop saw is good, find that height doubles as a bar after pack up time.*

I use a coaster on my Bench! LOL (for the Tea cup)


----------



## terryR

Looks great, Anthm. 
Oh, to be as happy as Anthm!


----------



## Mosquito

ha, love it Anthm!


----------



## anthm27

thanks for all the replies , brilliant,


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice bar, anthm! First from Hong Kong on this thread! And yes, I wish you'd cheer up! 

My bondo:


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, shouldn't there be bullet holes from the Red Baron?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Not in today's iteration, I guess.


----------



## CL810

You have a drill? ;-)


----------



## terryR

LOL!


----------



## JayT

> You have a drill? ;-)
> 
> - CL810


How about this? It might be the proper tool.










And if that's not enough, here's another option


----------



## theoldfart

^ Jay, your kidding me? Right? Tell me your joking!


----------



## woodcox

And I thought the brake on my lil dw circ saw was a nice feature. I never asked if an Israeli model was avaliable for order.


----------



## JayT

Sorry, Kevin, you're more of a Milwaukee guy, huh?










Actually, this one would be more appropriate for Smitty


----------



## bandit571

End vise getting some work..









jointing some Walnut.

How many "nails" does the clip hold?


----------



## duckmilk

> Actually, this one would be more appropriate for Smitty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - JayT


Where do you come up with this stuff? I love it


----------



## theoldfart

Perfect Jay, that drill works for me!


----------



## theoldfart

Ok, so 4" thick bench top and I'm going to breadboard the ends. How thick should the tenon be?


----------



## rad457

I usually follow the 1/3 to 2/3 rule. Sometimes a knot or flaw/grain may change it a bit? On my Bench I doweled from the end for a little insurance.


----------



## CL810

Ditto. Hope that's stout in that cup cuz you're going to need it if you don't use electrons.


----------



## theoldfart

Well…...
A picture story

The cut









Chisel to the line

















Employ various other edge tools









And the losers are on the floor









Now I'm gonna have a stout. One more tonight and two tomorrow and on to the bread boards!


----------



## CL810

Kevin is a stud.


----------



## JayT

Clean work Kevin.


----------



## theoldfart

Another one bites the dust


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You need a #10 1/2, Kevin.


----------



## theoldfart

Damn you Smitty, but ….....I could have really used one. Went back and forth with the shoulder, 140 and 4 1/2. Every one thinks the carriage makers plane is worth millions. Prices on the "Bay are unrealistic as far as my budget is concerned.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I have a couple of them, could loan you one if you want…


----------



## theoldfart

I just have two more tenons to cut and they should be done tomorrow. Thanks for the offer. just out of curiosity what types are they? Do they have the adjustable mouth?


----------



## Tugboater78

Kevin is a stud…
I been wrapping my head around doing the same thing..

Probably not gonna happen
My benches thickness..










Just got done mounting my endvice chop.. picture soon perhaps, phone was too dead to snap a pic


----------



## theoldfart

Tug, my top is the same thickness but a lot more laminations. Thought this was a wise way to go along with the neanderthal challenge!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Another one bites the dust
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## Tugboater78

Dryfit… needs some work but will work for now.


----------



## yuridichesky

Kevin, fantastic job!


----------



## jmartel

Kevin, I see you also have a strop from Red.


----------



## theoldfart

Tug, you are cruising.
Thanks Yuri and Red.
JM, oh yea. 4" of oak requires it.


----------



## terryR

Awesome, Kevin!
Much cleaner than my pine…










All chisel and routah plane for me.

Vise looks fine, Tug.


----------



## theoldfart

Looks pretty good to me Tug.


----------



## Tugboater78

Kevin you need to watch this…


----------



## theoldfart

Good tool, strange dude!


----------



## DLK

I aways wonder why is it there are so many woodworking videos where the presenter behaves like an idiot. They only one that seems to pull it off is Stumpy and I even have a hard time watching him. It is not not necessary, witness Paul Sellers, Cosman, or Barron to name a few.


----------



## theoldfart

+10 to that


----------



## TheFridge

Yep


----------



## BikerDad

Almost there…


----------



## rad457

Bench is starting to look real good! I found that after My top was on and semi level it was so nice to have something solid to work on. The end caps and Tail vise took a lot longer to finish than I had planned and still not completely satisfied with my face Vise but that will have to wait til next year.


----------



## theoldfart

Mortises laid out so drill baby drill









the weapons









On my second glass of a good cab so i think maybe tomorrow.


----------



## DLK

Nice brace. I need a 14" sweep. The other weapons are nice too.


----------



## richardwootton

Tug, TOF, both are lookin' good guys! TOF I'm also envious of your tool layout there. Shames my ugly Narex chisels.


----------



## terryR

Looks like fun, Kevin!
Nice auger roll…


----------



## laketrout36

Slow but sure it's coming along.




























Base dimensions = 31" tall, 26" deep, 48" long Douglas Fir

Top dimensions = 26" deep, 7' long, 3 1/2" thick Hard Maple

Hand planing the bench top is one good workout.


----------



## woodcox

That is a stout piece of furniture trout.


----------



## TheFridge

> That is a stout piece of furniture trout.
> 
> - woodcox


Ditto


----------



## richardwootton

That's a hefty lookin' bench you got going there. I can't wait for my oak to be dry enough to get started on mine.


----------



## theoldfart

Trout, that base looks like it could hold up a public monument! It's solid. Great build.


----------



## Tugboater78

Gonna be a monster, trout!


----------



## benchbuilder

Great looking bench trout, just looking at the photos of the base, it looks like its a knock down? I like it, whats the size of the legs? How will the top be connected to the base?


----------



## terryR

Very stout, Mr.Trout!

Yesterday, I cleaned up my tongue (blame Kevin!), cut a few finger joints, and milled the walnut endcap needed.


----------



## yuridichesky

Terry, what a slab! Are you going to turn you workbench into the panzer just like Trout did?


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, don't blame me, I have enough trouble dealing with my own OCD issues! Works lookin good!


----------



## Tugboater78

Progress on my bench has slowed.. using it to paint (gasp) another project.. with cardboard underneath.


----------



## DanKrager

You gonna put a bench cannon on that thing, Terry? That is MASSIVE! You and trout could exchange cannon fire from your respective locations! You actually planning to move this thing?
DanK


----------



## Tugboater78

So, debating on a planing stop.. well it has been part of the plan from the beginning but..

Currently planning on 2×2 size


















Any thoughts yay/nay, suggestions?


----------



## terryR

> You gonna put a bench cannon on that thing, Terry? That is MASSIVE! You and trout could exchange cannon fire from your respective locations! You actually planning to move this thing?
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Well, there's no substitute for cubic inches! 

Dan, you're still planning to help me move the bench and table saw, right?

Tug, my preference is a planing stop made of 1/2" ply which has 2 bench dogs attached and fits into 2 dog holes.


----------



## terryR

stop is always just out of the photo!
but less permanent than permanent.


----------



## DanKrager

Maybe it's because I'm an inexperienced woodworker, but a single planing stop never cut mustard with me. More than once I've "hurt" myself when the board flips out under the pressure of the plane stroke because the end is so narrow compared to the length. And, more often than not, I find the need for a diagonal stroke which this kind of stop simply cannot support. Even a skewed stroke as Terry shows gets dicey sometimes. I'm all for solid clear to the floor when hand planing, so I use a wedged stop made of 1/2" plywood that supports the board on the end and the sides, getting more solid as the stroke works against the wedge. Can't find a picture of it and the bench is covered with small projects right now. Smitty posted a picture of a cast iron wedge stop on one of these threads a while back. As a quicker option I made a broad bench hook with a "square" internal corner of 1/4" ply on top glued down solidly on the base. Good for thin stock, but the hook still has to be secured.
If the planing stop is coupled with a vise dog, that's another story.

DanK


----------



## DLK

If you sharpen the teeth on the planning stop and drive the board to be planed into it with the mallet (as you are supposed to), then one planning stop will work better. See this Schwarz discussion.


----------



## terryR

I like this coupled with a doe's foot…










...long boards need a sticking board IMO.


----------



## terryR

Hybrid woodworking? or just plain cheating?



















Pretty sure I couldn't cut a straight line with a CNC. Thank goodness for knife walls!


----------



## yuridichesky

Cheating? Not a bit. I'd call this "optimization".


----------



## theoldfart

I'm pretty sure that is woodworking Terry.


----------



## DLK

I don't think its cheating until you start using non-wood like that poxy MDF.


----------



## DLK

Dan I believe Smitty posed a picture of one of these "the craftmaster vise"










or maybe the one he posted was a cast-iron ancestor. My question is: are they (the pictured model) worth having?


----------



## theoldfart

I have the ancestor, it works quite well. Boatman made the sliding part for me since he has one as well.


----------



## DLK

Yes, thats right, I recall these posts now. I still wonder how the descendant will perform.


----------



## terryR

two end caps. hopefully the scar will look better after a bit of hair grows back on the pine.










my hands are killing me.


----------



## Boatman53

Yes, here is mine.










They are handy. Mine has four stud mounted to the frame so I can just drop it int the holes and go to work.
Jim


----------



## laketrout36

Benchbuilder - The base is made out of 4" x 4" Douglas Fir. After cutting, planing, sanding the legs are approximately 31" tall, 3.75" x 7.5". The base will attach to the top with four 1/2" lag screws recessed into the short stretchers then into the top. The base can be picked up and moved by one person and probably weighs around 100 - 125lbs. The top I tried to lift up by just the corner and was unable. Overall I'm guessing the top weighs at least 200lbs. Once in place this bench will not move much if any when I'm planing.

I'm appreciating what others have said when they've built their benches - it's a learning process, a workout, a satisfying build. I plane about 30 minutes a day due to a couple of pieces that weren't flush with other pieces during the glue up.

Planing this bench top is a great cardio workout similar to the workout you get when reeling in five Salmon one after the other. Either way, you're panting like a dog when done.


----------



## TheFridge

Only pic I have. Similar to Terry's but runs the full length of the end of my bench. It pretty much never comes out.


----------



## Tugboater78

Yeah, i have thought of the many options, currently i am using a dog in my one hole for what little planing i am doing. I really need to work on my legvice.. but i will get there eventually.


----------



## theoldfart

One bread board done, locating the vise. Time to stop as I tried to chisel off the tip of my little finger, bled a lot but saved the flap!









Happy Thanksgiving everyone.


----------



## bandit571

I think I'll wander down to the shop in a bit….just to see IF I can even see my bench….I know it's there..somewhere.

Been clamping part so that the area where I'm chopping mortises is right over a the legs of the bench….less "bounce-back" that way.

have a few things to get done…before Turkey Day tomorrow…..have to drive down to the Dayton, OH area to chow down at my Daughter's house. Hoping she has the right beer on hand to wash the goodies down.

Happy Thanksgiving, everybody….


----------



## benchbuilder

Wow trout thats some big legs and i like them. This bench should last a life time. You have done well!!


----------



## benchbuilder

HAVE A GREAT THANKSGIVING EVERYONE!


----------



## rad457

Started on my "poor man" plane stops










This is a trick I came across at Inside Passage, for planning small thin panels,
sandpaper glued to both sides of some B B ply I used 180 and 220 grit


----------



## theoldfart

End vise mounted









Flip day coming this weekend!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Looking good Kevin!


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Paul. I'm really trying to get it operational by this weekend.


----------



## CL810

Get plenty of help Kevin because, ya know, you're an old fart after all. :-0


----------



## theoldfart

Yea right, ya young pup 

I have a few friends lined up


----------



## terryR

Nice stops, Andre.  I'm making more after I move a couple of dog holes.

Kevin, the base of that vise looks like it must weigh 100 pounds alone. Good luck with the flip! I had to flip my entire bench for the tongue of the encaps. Was hoping to install my tail vise without repeating the flip, but I doubt it now…


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, not quite that heavy. Install is done, used threaded inserts.









completed unit









Working on final end cap


----------



## theoldfart

The good,








the bad(lamination began to split)

















and the ugly( what made the lamination split)

Luckily the split is on the back side so a couple of lag bolts to limit its travel ought to work.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

So….. was this guy inspired by our "Bondo Pose?" Seems like more than a coincidence.

http://blog.lostartpress.com/2015/11/24/will-the-nudity-ever-end/


----------



## CL810

I wondered the same thing.


----------



## rad457

*So….. was this guy inspired by our "Bondo Pose?" Seems like more than a coincidence.*

They say imitation is the most sincere form of flattery? No one can compete with the original!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It does make you wonder.


----------



## terryR

Kevin, it's all good. A bit of glue, and you'll forget it's there in a month!
love the plane marks in yer top.

I started a small set of drawers for tool storage, but am kicking myself in the butt for NOT completing the leg vise re-build first!


----------



## yuridichesky

Kevin, it's not too critical. You can always do some emergency repair with long screws and then hide those screws with plugs.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I wondered the same thing.
> 
> - CL810


So either:

A) We do have a strange influence on the world of woodworking. 
or 
B) We're tremendously self-absorbed.

Lawl.

Sometimes I do google "bondo pose"...just because it makes me laugh.


----------



## Mosquito

I will also admit to having the same thought… If I ever make it up to take one of his classes or see him at our next MWTCA meet again, I'll ask him if it was inspired or coincidental lol


----------



## theoldfart

So repair is done









Now I need to adjust the tenon/dovetail


----------



## richardwootton

> I will also admit to having the same thought… If I ever make it up to take one of his classes or see him at our next MWTCA meet again, I ll ask him if it was inspired or coincidental lol
> 
> - Mosquito


I'm taking a class with him next summer so I'll be sure to ask him. And also show him all of the bindi poses that have taken place so far!


----------



## DLK

Next, autographed bondo poses.


----------



## theoldfart

Flip day tomorrow, kind of heavy to do my self.


----------



## duckmilk

Nice Kevin, congrats!

I lust after that end vise.


----------



## Mosquito

Which class Richard?

Sweet progress Kevin!


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Duck. I lucked out finding it on CL. Had several layers of paint splatter on it. I need to make a thick chop for it.


----------



## richardwootton

I'm taking the Baby Anarchist's class that Schwarz taught last year. I have a feeling I'll be a bit further along than some of the others in the class. I'm building that same traveling tool chest right now and probably have all the hand tools. But in other categories I fit perfectly, aka I'm still pretty young and broke!


----------



## richardwootton

Kevin, you have that fancy bench crafted cross cross don't you? I'm excited to see that in action.


----------



## theoldfart

Richard, yes I do. This is a pic prior to bing installed on the bench.


----------



## terryR

Looks great, Kevin…very heavy.

Are you in a final push to get the bench completed?

Minor shop time the past couple of days, but my leg vise is nearly ready for the chain install…


----------



## theoldfart

And we have flip


















Still need to trim the tenons/dovetails, drill dog holes and make a chop for the tail vise BUT it is operational. Whoopee!


----------



## yuridichesky

Kevin, it's a pure joy to see your workbench.


----------



## theoldfart

Yuri, thank you. Once the details are done I'll post as a perpetual project!


----------



## CL810

'This a thing of beauty Kevin!


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, many thanks for the ongoing support. I'm thrilled with how the leg vise came out, almost 0 sag at full width. Your suggestion when I misdrilled the pin hole worked like a charm.


----------



## widdle

Way to go OF…She's a beauty..


----------



## chrisstef

Yea fart!!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Perfect measure of aesthetic beefiness, as it used to be said. Beautiful, congrats OF!


----------



## CL810

Kevin, do you have the 203's for your deadman?


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks all.

Yes Andy, Jim(Boatman) sold me one. I assume one is enough? I know bad question for this group


----------



## Tugboater78

Kevin, shes a beaut!

I have a 203, but no place to use on my bench.. somewhat disappointing..


----------



## terryR

Looks fabulous, Kevin!
Congrats.

Now I have a working leg vise again…Jim's chain drive was straightforward to install. I had to route the chain through my lower stretcher, which is slightly different than typical. But performance is smooth so far!










I still want to fine tune the tension on the chain over the next few days…so clamps for lower bracket still, and just wedges holding the lower wheel assembly at the proper height.

Love it already!


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Terry.

Why below the stretcher, not enough chain length above?

Never mind,. just figured it out, brain farts I guess.


----------



## jmartel

Atta boy, OF. Looks great.


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Jmart


----------



## laketrout36

Every day or so I've been spending about 45minutes planing my bench top. Time to resharpen the plane blade. Many inspiring builders on here.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it sounds like it was expected: "2" is the optimal number of #203 bench clamps…


----------



## woodcox

Congrats getting that beast on the hoof Kevin, looking forward to the details.


----------



## TheFridge

Nice job OF. Looks meaty.


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks all.
Aw gee Smitty, now what am I gonna do? Hehe  It's a dirty job…...


----------



## TheFridge

Stef might've finished before you but he doesn't have the excuse of being an OF


----------



## theoldfart

Well of course,there's only one OF. It takes time to be this slow.


----------



## TheFridge

Like a fine wine that gets better with age. (I guess? I don't drink wine. Men were meant to drink whiskey!) so an old whiskey or bourbon that gets better with age? And if whisky doesn't get better with age them hell with it.


----------



## jmartel

I'll go with a nicely aged steak reference.


----------



## TheFridge

Even better.

Nothing like old meat eh OF?


----------



## theoldfart

Well Fridge, I'll take a wood fire grilled steak Argentinian style with chimichuri and a bottle of Malbec. Later a good single malt. In my youth maybe a cigar as well.


----------



## TheFridge

My kind of man. In a totally plutonic way of course.


----------



## ToddJB

Congrats OF, that's gotta feel good. It looks great from here.

Smitty, why 2?


----------



## Boatman53

I've got one more #203 clamp left. Someone here (I won't mention any names) said he wanted it and after several reminder emails it has been I guess about three months since we last sent a PM. I don't think I'm obligated to hold it for him any longer. So if anyone needs another let me know.
Jim


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That fact that Kev cut those Dts by hand….makes me wanna buy him a beer.

Looks like Widdle didn't patent his racker in time….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Todd, there really are instances where 2 is good.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, they may have been hand cut but they ain't as purdy as yours


----------



## rad457

Damm! just started to use Dem darn hold fasts and now ya all say I needs some kind of 203's thingy? 
Nope not going to!
Oldfart that is a nice looking Bench. Enjoy!
Had to switch to some Good whiskey today after my team won the Grey Cup! Way to Go Esk's!


----------



## bandit571

Needed a tool to help at the bench









Hey, at least now I can sit down while I'm sawing dovetails, might even help my old back.

When not in use, it can be stowed away under the bench….


----------



## ToddJB

Ah. I see. Thanks Smitty. I've only been using mine like you show the lower one.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice looking bench Kevin. Any idea how much it weighs?


----------



## theoldfart

Paul, I'm not sure. I do know it doesn't move when I'm planning stock.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Must be heavy enough!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Right on Kevin! Beautiful work.


----------



## theoldfart

Paul a quick and dirty calc puts the weight at 320 lbs or so and thanks for the compliment.

Thanks Tony


----------



## yuridichesky

Couple of weeks ago I rust-hunted old machinist lamp.

After some quick cleaning and replacing the switch I put it in use as a benchtop lamp. Have no idea now how I worked all this time without it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I love benchtop lighting.
.
Kevin has a beast of a bench.
.
Todd's looking for a #203 (heh, heh…)
.
Bandit solved a stool problem.
.
That is all.


----------



## BikerDad

> *So….. was this guy inspired by our "Bondo Pose?" Seems like more than a coincidence.*
> 
> They say imitation is the most sincere form of flattery? No one can compete with the original!
> 
> - Andre


The original is Ian Kirby.


----------



## DLK

All though 203's are nice. You can do the same with a bench dog and c-clamp.


----------



## ToddJB

Don, they service the same function, yes. But if you have a drawer unit under your bench like Smitty's pic above shows then your options are limited.


----------



## donwilwol

http://lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/33500


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Here's what Tony said in that post:



> Stubborn resourcefulness thwarting disposable consumerism.
> 
> You most definitely win Don.
> 
> - AnthonyReed


I'll just add the slope is taking a beating with the two of ya! ;-)


----------



## DLK

*ToddJB* yes I see that now and agree. *Don W* Hey, I had thought to do that with a broken quick clamp.

I like the 203s but they require 1" holes. So might hold out for a Veritas® Surface Clamp, but they cost $74.50 and I have spent enough this month.


----------



## richardwootton

TOF that bench looks incredible! Very close to what I plan to build.


----------



## terryR

After a few days of abuse, I can honestly say Jim's leg vise drive is schweet!

It grabs thin stock,










it grabs octagonal stock,










rectangular stuff,










and even a rule so tightly that I couldn't budge it,










Screw spins under one finger of pressure! I'm in heaven! No mo' stooping over to adjust the pin. Easy to install. I could list superlatives all day long, especially since it was built by a buddy! 

Anyone looking for a friendly upgrade, or a new build should certainly consider this chain drive. The deluxe version was under $150, and included everything needed. Even a length of wire to help feed the chain through bored holes. Nice touch.


----------



## DLK

^Post a link please to Jim's leg vise drive.

Edit: A little searching with a little guessing found it. But I see below is the links.
So thanks Terry and Yuri.


----------



## terryR

Oh yeah…

http://ancorayachtservice.com/?page_id=221

I was off on pricing; the Deluxe is $155. Nice bronze sprockets and stainless hardware!










(NOT a paid advertizement)


----------



## yuridichesky

Don, here it is.


----------



## TheFridge

The Fridgeracker is finished.










This is basically what it is. A bolt through the side of a nut tightening down on the brass rod. The bolts head sits in a mortise and was epoxied in along with a little brass dome I found somewhere.


----------



## TheFridge

DP


----------



## DLK

So Fridge, thats what you look like. Nice solution to the wracking problem.


----------



## DanKrager

That's a really nice solution, Fridge!

DanK


----------



## yuridichesky

Fridge, this selfie shot with the means of mirror-polished bolt could be another big thing just like Bondo pose


----------



## Mosquito

lol Yuri might be on to something here!

I like the solution Fridge! I've been wanting to build a new bench once I get out to the new shop, and was thinking about a face vise instead of leg vise. I may try with no vise at first, just to see how it goes, but was thinking something like this:


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks guys, I still have to figure out a leg vise racking solution before I bondo. I hate having to use a pin.


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, glad the install worked out.

Progress


----------



## TheFridge

Nice.

Nothing like the possibility of an OF finishing his bench before you, will encourage you to finish yours first 

Edit: well Don, I look similar to the reflection but less like a misshapen elf.


----------



## theoldfart

Fridge, I can't imagine the depths of despair someone would descend to thinking about an OF being done before them ! Total pseudo-male shame fer sure dude.

I'm liking the bench height


----------



## TheFridge

That leg vise looks like it could a full grown adult and not rack.


----------



## Iguana

OF, I think you need to have a talk with Andre. Looks like he stole all the holes from your deadman - you might want to get sone back..


----------



## rad457

No problem, got a few to spare! I picked up the 3/4" brad point bit from L.V. and after the first hole couldn't stop, cut through that Maple so nice!


----------



## theoldfart

You mean those things need holes? No one told me that!


----------



## DLK

> You mean those things need holes? No one told me that!
> 
> - theoldfart


(light bulb) You know you could always put in a t-track instead of holes and use a t-track clamp instead of 203s or dogs or holdfasts.


----------



## theoldfart

Already have the 203's and I have decided to get a couple of Black Bear Forges holdfasts from the Phil Koontz design.


----------



## DLK

It wasn't really a suggest for you. I too would not go the T-track route either. Although it would be very functional it would be out of character/style with the rest of the shop. Just an idea I had not thought about before.

I went with Gramercy holdfasts and they are amazing.


----------



## theoldfart

Don 3/4 or 1"?


----------



## DLK

> Don 3/4 or 1"?
> 
> - theoldfart


3/4" of course if you are using 203's you'll want 1" which is why you went with black bear. I get it now.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, Black Bear also has the plain or fancy holdfasts in 3/4" as well.


----------



## DLK

> Don, Black Bear also has the plain or fancy holdfasts in 3/4" as well.
> 
> - theoldfart


 Yes but gramecy does not. I chose them because of the glowing LJ reports and because of the way they were constructed from formed wire. You may like to read about them from their advertisetement. I am sure Black bear is good too.


----------



## Mosquito

What I liked about the Gramercy most was that they were $35 for a pair, and not $50 a piece… I looked into a local blacksmith to make a pair, but they would have come in at $80 a piece, which apparently isn't too bad after having looked at black bear forge's prices, but more than I could justify at the time. If I were to do it again, I might consider it though.


----------



## terryR

Wow, 18" of cold rolled steel at 3/4" diameter is only about $7!


----------



## Mosquito

I don't really have the capacity to bend it and create the foot though, so $10 to have it done for me is acceptable to me 

The more expensive ones are hand forged, so I'm not surprised at the cost on those.


----------



## jmartel

I have the gramercy ones as well and can vouch for them. Just need to scuff up the shanks as it describes on the page. Hand forged ones would be nice, but these work great for $35.


----------



## ToddJB

I met the Black Bear guy at the LN Hand Tool event last month. Super nice guy, and his hold fasts look awesome. He makes a bunch of bench accessories.


----------



## mramseyISU

> I don t really have the capacity to bend it and create the foot though, so $10 to have it done for me is acceptable to me
> 
> The more expensive ones are hand forged, so I m not surprised at the cost on those.
> 
> - Mosquito


Thats the exact same reason I went with the Gramercy ones too. After all these years it still blows me a way when people say things like "Well that's only $10 worth of steel." or something to that effect. I'm sure they don't go to their day job for the fun of it and expect to get paid for their labor just like the guy at another company. Take the holdfasts for example I can't buy a torch (or a furnace) and build the jig and the anvil and the hammer for $15 and I bet you can't either. If you know a guy that has that stuff and you want to go have some homemade the great knock yourself out. I'd rather spend that time working wood than building stuff so I can work on my projects.


----------



## terryR

I have a handful of Gramercy's and love them. No problems paying a pro for their labor. Shaping a hot piece of metal is tough.

But my little forge cost $25 to build. And a hammer is another $20. Railroad tie is my anvil.

I think it's cool if you want LN holdfasts, or vintage. It's all good.

Just saying if you want some holdfasts on the cheap, the cost of ONE store bought could have you set up to make a dozen for gifts. Not for everyone, I admit…


----------



## DLK

Ever done a craft show where the customer complains about the price because the amount of wood in it didn't cost that much.

Anyway Terry, you are right, when you say it may be possible to build or acquire all the tools and material necessary to make the hold fast at what they charge. And some day I might do that. There is more to the cost then the tools and the materials. There is the cost of developing the skills required to produce a product that your customers will enjoy and appreciate.


----------



## Tugboater78

I am hoping the one present i have under the tree wrapped by fiance is a set of gramarcy holdfasts..

Terry when i get home i may need a closer look at how you went through your stretcher with the chainguide…


----------



## TheFridge

Rough up the shanks and they work like a champ


----------



## shampeon

If you've got access to a forge, making your own is kind of fun.


----------



## ToddJB

Ian - hi. long time no LJs.


----------



## shampeon

Yo Todd. Took a while to get settled into our new place. Longer than I expected. Good to see everyone, though, and these eternal mega threads are like an old friend. 8^)


----------



## ToddJB

Welcome back. Glad things are settling down. Hopefully a new shop is coming along nicely - though I miss shots of the hallway shop.


----------



## Mosquito

> I am hoping the one present i have under the tree wrapped by fiance is a set of gramarcy holdfasts..
> - Tugboater78


That's exactly how I got mine after I finished my workbench


----------



## rad457

I have a set of the Gramercy and work they great, only problem is deciding which hole to put them in on the Deadman?
Still have not drilled any holes in the front (5") of my Bench but in the back half (3") they hold real good!


----------



## JayT

Hey, Ian, welcome home.

I have the Gramercy's, as well, and am very happy with their performance.


----------



## onoitsmatt

I just waded through this entire thread. It is like reading a novel. All the posters are like characters from the book. I feel like I know you all. So many awesome benches. I'm in the middle of the "need a bench in order to make a bench" quandry. I decided to make a small 4' long bench from scrap 2×4s I had. Turns out it is teally hard to make a small bench without a bench to build it on.

Thanks to you all for sharing your benches, stories, and experience!

And add me to the list of people hoping to get a set of gramercy holdfasts under the tree this year.

Matt
Phoenix, AZ


----------



## JayT

> I just waded through this entire thread.
> 
> - onoitsmatt


My deepest apologies, but welcome to the insanity! 

For building a bench without a bench, have you looked at the Paul Sellers series where he does just that? He shows how to build a bench with just a couple sawhorses to start with.


----------



## chrisstef

Wow matt, congrats. Id ask you how you felt after a wade through this thread but I'm pretty sure I know the answer.

As to holdfasts …. if you've got an uber thick one (bench people, bench) like I do and the gramercy ones wont work and hand forged was the only way to go, id suggest sending an email to a fellow LJ, Tim aka A slice of wood workshop. He made me some monster holdfasts. It took some sandpaper and a file to get them truly dialed in but once I got em to slip into the hole nice and easy fuhgetaboutit. Beefy, handmade and reasonably priced at $100 for a pair shipped.


----------



## DLK

Matt, do read Mos's blog on building a work bench.

Mos's first learned how to work wood with out a bench. Hence he really new how to use all his tools
first and then making the bench was easier.

And one other thing: Glendale swap meet!


----------



## onoitsmatt

Thanks! I have seen Paul Sellers blog. I was already knee deep in my build when I started looking at better ways of doing things. Mos has been an inspiration. Though I do blame him for recently buying a Stanley 45. I feel like I'm making my big mistakes on this bench and will use it for a while to better figure out what I want in a bench. I've learned a ton from the build so far.


----------



## JayT

> Mos has been an inspiration. Though I do blame him for recently buying a Stanley 45.
> 
> - onoitsmatt


Would you mind editing that comment? Mos's head is big enough already


----------



## theoldfart

Matt, sawhorses will work for benchmaking. I added extensions to mine when the top was completed to bring it up to what I thought would be my final height. You can then use it to complete the rest of the bench.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Stef says he has an uber thick one that's hand forged?


----------



## theoldfart

Yea he did something with his hands I heard!


----------



## Mosquito

My head is perfectly fine the way it is! Anyone else have issues getting through a doorway, or is it just me?

Seriously though, with enough determination you can make a workbench with just a little creativity. I used a 4' folding table and some clamps or a small workmate for the large portion of my bench build. Certainly not ideal, but better than the floor 

Just be careful… I found that once I got the top and legs done, it was way too easy to use the bench with out getting it 100% completed lol


----------



## Mosquito

I just went through my workbench blog… on 05-09-2013 I stated "I will hopefully be able to find a time to get some finish on it"

Still trying to find that time, apparently lol


----------



## Hammerthumb

That's ok Mos. Mine is getting near 20yrs old and still does not have finish.


----------



## DLK

His head is not that big see:










(Somebody had to do it. LOL)


----------



## drcodfish

I finished my bench a couple weeks ago. My first big project:









I looked all over western WA for Maple for the top, nothing anyone would part with that didn't require a second mortgage on the house. Of course I checked CL eventually and found not 5 miles down the road a back yard miller who has about an acre of sheds filled with air dried maple, walnut, madrone. I bought two planks (3X12) and then had my work cut out for me. Maple top, walnut end caps and doug fir base.

I also hunted down an antique Rogers Wilcox vise which, after clean up came out looking very nice:










It is a quick release vise, I was especially pleased that it still had the original oak handle.

A friend salvaged an old and very rough leg vise from a neighbors burn pile and gave it to me. This thing was marginal so I took it to a plater who bead blasted and the powder coated the hardware, not sure how it would turn out. I went back to Bill the miller and got a very nice piece of figured maple for the leg:









I could not find a handle to fit so sanded down a 1 inch dowel and using a block plane and a LOT of sanding (no lathe) made the handle ends out of some walnut offcuts.
Winter light being what it is, I can't show you a decent pic that does justice to the figure in the bench top:









Finished it with four coats of Waterlox.

I've done something of a photo documentation of the process, from boards to finished project. You can see the story on my flickr page here.

It was fun, I learned a lot and there are plenty of things I would do differently, but this is probably the bench my kids will chop up for fire wood when they cart me off to the home.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Matt, I second Kevin's reco that horses are all that's needed to build a bench. Those saved me. Well, those and the legs of a table that I was working on at the time. 

My sympathy for reading the whole thread. You'll never get those 12 hours back (how much time did it actually take to read through?).


----------



## ToddJB

Dr. Looks great!


----------



## onoitsmatt

Ha. I read it off and on over the 4-day weekend. I was mostly looking at the photos to see what other people were doing but would get caught up in a topic and read several pages before realizing I'd never get through the entire thread if I didn't get back to just skimming it.

About a year ago I decided to sell off my power tools and start buying up hand tools. This really solidified the need for a bench.

I have been using a short cabinet as a work surface. It is too low and uncomfortable. I finally mounted a vise to the cabinet after too many near misses with chisels and other sharp blades. This has helped a lot. But it is still very awkward and reinforces the opinion that you need a bench to build a bench.


----------



## CL810

Love the bench Dr. C! Especially the figured top.


----------



## Mosquito

Dr. C that is a sweet bench! Should be able to put that to some good use 

Matt, no doubt it's easier to build a bench with a bench, but I figure if you can effectively work with out one, it makes it that much easier to work WITH one…


----------



## rad457

Nice bench Drcodfish, looks awful shiny (slippery)? reminded me I need to put some chutes in my trough!


----------



## onoitsmatt

That is a good looking bench, Dr. C. Holding out for the right deal on lumber is a great way to go if you have the patience for it. Really looks great!


----------



## theoldfart

Getting bored with this


----------



## Mosquito

I see what you did there…


----------



## ToddJB

Get a grip, drill down, and just crank them out.


----------



## drcodfish

Andre:

Yes, this bench top is certainly more slick than it was unfinished, but so far I haven't had any problems as a result, not like trying to grab a bar of soap or anything like that. One thing I like about the Waterlox is that the bench top is really a lot harder than the un-treated maple was. On balance, I think the bench top is at greater risk of dents and gouges at my mercy than something slipping off, the hold fasts do their job quite well. I guess there is good and bad about everything, but if I had it to do over I think I would probably stick with this.


----------



## drcodfish

C1810:



> Love the bench Dr. C! Especially the figured top.
> 
> - CL810


Here are couple photos I took after smoothing the bench top and a wipe down w/mineral spirits. I was amazed because I had told the guy wasn't looking for figured or fancy wood, just solid and of course they were rough cut so sort of like looking at the package through 3" of pond ice until I cleaned it up. I couldn't post these pics because they are too 'big' in terms of pixels.


----------



## theoldfart

There Todd, are you happy now? I am 









Next up, the tail chop









DrC, does yours look like this under her skirts?


----------



## drcodfish

Theo:

Pretty close:


----------



## onoitsmatt

Dr. C, I looked through the build photos in your album in the link above. Good looking bench. Looks like you got some good cardio with that #7 or #8 (I couldn't tell which). I really like the heft in those legs. How did you mount the top? I saw the tenons cut in the legs, but looked like they were used in mortises in some support rails rather than directly into the top.

And OF, I like that vise. You'd mentioned this one in the vise thread when I was looking at a similar one on CL recently. I didn't wind up getting it, BTW.


----------



## theoldfart

The full frontal









You will notice the high end flag pole cut off handle of course!


----------



## onoitsmatt

The hipsters call that up-cycling. Which for them usually involves turning an ugly tablecloth into an uglier sundress. However, this vise handle is the bee's knees.


----------



## drcodfish

> Dr. C, I looked through the build photos in your album in the link above. Good looking bench. Looks like you got some good cardio with that #7 or #8 (I couldn t tell which). I really like the heft in those legs. How did you mount the top? I saw the tenons cut in the legs, but looked like they were used in mortises in some support rails rather than directly into the top.
> 
> And OF, I like that vise. You d mentioned this one in the vise thread when I was looking at a similar one on CL recently. I didn t wind up getting it, BTW.
> 
> Busted!
> 
> In the process of cutting it the M&T's for the frame I became acutely aware of my skill level and concluded that trying to cut through tenons in my lovely bench top would probably result in a permanent and very visible oops. So I chickened out and bolted the top to the legs using flanges and spax screws. After the guys at the local Junior college flattened my planks on their really big table planer (something like 36" top) the planks were only a little more than 2 3/4" thick, Thus I beefed up the legs and braces to add a little heft. The whole rig is pretty solid. I really wish I had not attached the 2X6's length wise to the bottom of the bench top, they really serve no purpose. I may try to artfully remove them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - onoitsmatt


----------



## onoitsmatt

Didn't mean to blow your cover Dr. C. Still a good looking bench and when your skills improve there will be opportunity to do mortises in the top if you want. I'm on the same boat but my top is scrap doug fir not awesome maple. I'm vested in the top due to an unholy amount of time I've wasted on it. So can't go messing it up now.


----------



## theoldfart

Gonna look purdy


----------



## drcodfish

Matt:

The smoother which I used was a #7 Bailey. I picked it up (in a big box FULL of planes) from a gentleman who was selling out his life's worth of wood working tools, moving in to the city. His wife wanted to be in town now that they were getting older. It was easy to see that he wasn't quite ready for that, but you know the old saying: "Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?". These planes had belonged to his dad who was a carpenter and neither of his sons had any interest in woodworking.



















Once I got it a little bit cleaned up and sharpened I learned how much fun a good working plane could be, smoothing that bench top with that plane was without doubt the most fun part of building the bench. I soon figured out why Chris Schwartz does everything but tie his shoes with a hand plane. I plan to sell off the other planes (including the #8 Bailey) to recoup my investment.

I plan to take the #7 and two other Jack planes I am keeping down to bare metal and then refinish them, I will use black engine paint vs Asphaltum. I cleaned up that old Rogers Wilcox vise using the electrolysis method, it worked well and should be a snap with the planes.


----------



## onoitsmatt

Great story Doc. I picked up a #6c and a #7c at an antique store that was going out of business. Both were covered in rust and both totes broken and dried out. The knob on the 7 was missing too. He wanted $25 or $30 each for them maybe $35, I don't recall. I took them both up to the counter and explained that I only really wanted the 7 and the knob off the 6 but I'd take them both if he'd make a deal on them. He looked up what he paid for them and said he'd take $12 each for them. So I bought them both. I've cleaned up the 7, took the knob from the 6 and a tote from a 5 with a cracked sole. It is fun to use and I've used it a ton on my bench build so far.


----------



## terryR

Chop looks good, Kevin.
walnut is one of favs!


----------



## tyvekboy

I thought for those who visit this very long thread regularly, I thought I'd add my workbench to it.

Most of my buddies have seen it but for those who haven't seen it yet here is a photo:










For more details you can see the *latest* post on this monster … about 350 pounds.

There is a link to the *original* post in the above posting

Hope this gives those looking for workbench designs another option to consider.


----------



## tyvekboy

While we are on the subject of workbenches, I thought that I'd address vise racking.

My *first* solution to vise racking was this monster that had a capacity of over 7 inches.










More details at this link.

My second solution was a more compact one based on the recently announced offer from Woodpeckers. It has a capacity of a little over 3 inches.










More details at this link.

These solutions are portable and you only need to make one and use it on ALL your vises.

There are a several other options to prevent vise racking here on LJ. Kiefer has an excellent option provided you have the room to install it.

Hope this gives you a project for this weekend.


----------



## tyvekboy

Another workbench problem is how to have a machine vise on our workbenches without having it get in the way. Although I had mine permanently mounted on my OLD workbench, I really didn't want to mount it permanently on my NEW workbench.

My solution was to have one that could be removed if necessary. Also this solution makes it possible to relocate it anywhere along the front edge of the workbench to address different situations.










More details at this link.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice, I did the same thing with my metal vise as well. I typically just clamp it in the leg vise and then remove it when I don't need it. Nice to be able to have it on a good sturdy bench, but not all the time


----------



## theoldfart

End vise is in


















Almost ready for bidness


----------



## CL810

Kevin I like that your endcaps bury the tenon. I didn't do that, and I've regretted it. Much cleaner look.

Made some accessories for the benc today.


----------



## onoitsmatt

Looks great, OF! Beefy!


----------



## theoldfart

Nice Andy, I have to make a couple as well. I have two the appliances already done, just need to dowel them. Still need to drill the dog holes on the bench too. Another 203, courtesy of Boatman53, just arrived so I'm set there.


----------



## theoldfart

Matt, thanks. I planed the chop for the tail vise and that bench did not budge or flex so I'm already declaring the bench a success.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dang Kev, that end vise looks sharper than most of ours. But I'd be disappointed if you didn't improve on us


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Red, yours is one of the benches that inspired me to try to build one.

And then there were two


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ah, beautiful!!!


----------



## yuridichesky

Kevin, you rock!

Andy, this is very handy removable stop that you made. I use one all the time and not just for planing.


----------



## terryR

Kevin, your bench is fabulous! Lots of nice details to enjoy! What's up with the sawhorses under the bench? Just used to seeing them there?

Nice DT's, Andy! Mr. Baron's guide is a great tool.


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, I can't break the habit. Time for 12 steps I guess


----------



## BikerDad

> Another workbench problem is how to have a machine vise on our workbenches without having it get in the way. Although I had mine permanently mounted on my OLD workbench, I really didn t want to mount it permanently on my NEW workbench.
> 
> My solution was to have one that could be removed if necessary. Also this solution makes it possible to relocate it anywhere along the front edge of the workbench to address different situations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More details at this link.
> 
> - tyvekboy


I also have done the same with my small machinist vise, only without the front strip. I just clamp it down.


----------



## BikerDad

Update: my bench is now usable. Details and a couple pics here.


----------



## theoldfart

Working on the shelf


----------



## DanKrager

Oooooo, the shelf elf!
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Bending over I feel like an infirm elf! Last construction item along with dog holes. Then flatten and finish.

Taking a break, we are headed to the Left Coast to spend time with our son and daughter and their spouses along with the grandkids. Be back next year.


----------



## RetiredITC

Wow, it's so nice… I'd almost be afraid to use it!


----------



## shampeon

Nice shiplaps, tof. Enjoy the holidays in Auburn and Saratoga. Hopefully El Nino won't make it a snorkeling vacation.


----------



## theoldfart

Ian, please don't say that word(ra*n). Bad ju-ju  Thinking snow in the Sierras.


----------



## bkseitz

Those are some awesome workbenches guys. I built a MDF topped bench I use occasionally, however, I found I used my assembly table more


----------



## shampeon

Should be plenty of snow, if the forecasts bear out. 24" at the crest from the incoming storm, and more after that.

I was in Santa Cruz for the last big El Nino, in '97/'98. Driving over 17 was extra fun that year, dodging mudslides and potholes that were more like sinkholes. My buddy got "trapped" at a friend's cabin near Alpine Meadows due to an avalanche blocking the road downhill. Lucky bastards had the whole resort to themselves for two days with 4 feet of new snow.


----------



## theoldfart

We've skied Alpine Meadow along with Northstar and Squaw Valley. A lot of avy terrain all around that side of Tahoe. We did a little hiking outside of Truckee. I'd really like to do some backcountry if I could some day.

Well that's it for this year,


















Flatten the top, dog holes, and finish when we get back in January. Can't make up my mind on a shape for the leg vise chop.


----------



## onoitsmatt

Looks fantastic, OF! Stop by Phoenix and finish up my bench if you can't stand being away from the shavings and sawdust for that long.


----------



## theoldfart

Matt, I'm the last person you'd want to help. It took me two and a half years to get to this point.


----------



## richardwootton

So Matt, you're looking for a roomie? Cause that's what you'll get if TOF comes to finish a bench. If you ask Stef you're gettin' a hubby.


----------



## theoldfart

^


----------



## Boatman53

I like this shape Kevin. It offers a lot of clearance for tools.










Jim


----------



## Mosquito

I've also got a similar shape on my leg vise to what Jim has


----------



## Tugboater78

I like the shape that Jim and Mos's chops have, hopefully i can get mine at least mounted before Christmas ( or should i be PC and say holiday, grr)

Kevin your bench looks great!


----------



## splatman

Screw PC (Who votes on that nonsense anyway!? It's never on my ballot), and say Christmas.

Now, keep out your wood and tools, everyone, and do what you know best.

Merry Christmas!
And a Happy New Year!


----------



## yuridichesky

Kevin, great progress with the workbench. BTW, besides dog holes and all the rest there must be a bondo shot when it's done


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks for the input guys.

Yuri, be careful with what you wish for.


----------



## terryR

Love those big honkin' wooden hubs on leg vises! Very masculine!

I rounded over the edges on my chop with a block plane…cannot count how many times my left hand bangs into the chop whilst planing near the top's edge. ouch!










My previous chop was 2.9" thick for some obscene reason? I re sawed and reshaped it for weight loss…much better now!


----------



## BikerDad

> My previous chop was 2.9" thick for some obscene reason? I re sawed and reshaped it for weight loss…much better now!
> 
> - terryR


How has the reshaping made a difference? Does the vise spin in and out easier, grip better, what?

****

On a completely different note, how is it that this thread has gone 5 days without a single post?

Minor Suggestion for those near the end of their bench builds. If you're going to be making your own benchdogs using bullet catches, don't lose the bullet catches. Dogs w/o catches fall through dogholes. DAMHIKT.


----------



## terryR

Much easier to spin the handle now. The support wheel isn't bound up by the extra weight.


----------



## Mosquito

> The 2016 Calendar info can be found here for anyone who wants one:
> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/133282
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito


Couple workbench shots made the 2016 calendar, for those interested the details are above


----------



## bandit571

One of the rare times I can see the top of mine..









Doesn't stay that way very long, either….always a plane in the way, too..









Might need to clean the top up, someday?


----------



## TheFridge

Future slide out storage till behind plane till.


----------



## duckmilk

Thanks for bumping up the thread Fridge. Very interested to see the storage till. You are making good use of that space.


----------



## DLK

Very cool idea fridge. I like it.


----------



## jmartel

Where does everyone get their scrap leather? I've come to the conclusion that I need some in my leg vise and on my holdfasts at the least. Tandy leather was closed today so I shouldn't run in there.


----------



## drcodfish

Not scraps but I got what I needed from Hobby Lobby.


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, they were closed today too. Guess I'll have to go back out another day.


----------



## TheFridge

The leather i got from hobby lobby was in the thin side. I got a couple square feet of black rawhide? From a flea market on vacation for maybe 5$.

The fret saw makes cutting out waste very easy. Worth every penny. 








This keeps me warm








Will have 2 under mount drawer slides


















Storage drawer


----------



## drcodfish

Jeeze, your dovetails are faboo.


----------



## TheFridge

thanks man. Lots and lot of practice sawing to the line. It gets better every time.


----------



## rad457

Santa dropped of some gophers for my bench! Really didn't want to drill through 5" of Maple.



















I went to a tannery and picked up scrap cut offs for a decent price, another option is to use fault board
for your vise face, any picture framing place usually have scraps they give away free. Use 2 sided tape 
and it is easy to replace when it gets worn out.


----------



## richardwootton

> The leather i got from hobby lobby was in the thin side. I got a couple square feet of black rawhide? From a flea market on vacation for maybe 5$.
> 
> 
> 
> I think TheFridge and I got our leather at the same place, right Andrew? I like your ******************** ass space heater by the way!
Click to expand...


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks man, and central station flea market?

They had a bunch there for cheap.


----------



## john2005

Finally catching up with this thread. Been real busy lately it seems.

OF, so good to see that thing right side up! She looks beefy. I really dig your end vise. As far as leg shape, I like the "Stanley lever cap" design. That is what I went with. It offers the same tool clearance options that Jim mentions, just looks sexy. My .02

Terry, I too have Jims chain kit for going on its 3rd year now and I love it. Clean, simple, easy to set up/adjust. I highly recommend it to anybody looking for an upgrade. You won't be disappointed.

Re-203s for those who don't have/cant afford/find them, I use a holdfast in my deadman on a regular occasion. Works well.


----------



## TheFridge

I jelly Andre l. I could use a couple of those.


----------



## Tugboater78

I gotta drill out more dogholes in my bench but keep telling myself not too.. not sure why..


----------



## theoldfart

John, thanks for the complement and good to hear from you. I agree with the lever cap profile for the top of the chop, still wrestling with the overall outline. Heading home to Mass in the morning, it'll be good to get back into the shop. Somehow I picked up an infection in my jaw, antibiotics are finally working and the pain is subsiding. Great way to end a vacation. Oh well.


----------



## terryR

Gotta love new brass on a 5" thick maple benchtop. porn…

Nice DT's fridge. +1 on that fret saw. Few tools make me scream, WOW during the first use, but Knew Concepts has a winner there!

scrap leather? noooooooooooo!


----------



## byerbyer

My KD Nicholson has been done for the good part of a month now, just haven't had time to post pics. I did the final flattening of the workbench in my shop and then moved it to my fathers to use during my dresser build.




























My only regret is using Hem-Fir 2×12 material from my local lumberyard. I spent the better part of an hour hand picking the material. It moved quite a bit after cutting it to rough length and stickering it for 2 weeks. It seemed to stay reasonably flat during the build but between the final flattening and starting this dresser build it's cupped almost 1/8" front to back. Nothing another flattening won't take care of, but it doesn't mate well to the apron any longer. I may remake the top using SYP if time allows later this year. I'll definitely flatten before I begin the joinery.


----------



## JayT

Looks good, byer. Unless it's really out of flat, give it 6 months to a year and then flatten again. At that point, I don't think there will be any more issues. From the shavings pile, you got a pretty decent workout.


----------



## byerbyer

I'm going to give it a good eyeing with some winding sticks before I get to the joinery. I may just take the high spots off and let is season a bit more before full on flattening. And yes, it felt a lot warmer than 45° in my garage when I was done.


----------



## john2005

> John, thanks for the complement and good to hear from you. I agree with the lever cap profile for the top of the chop, still wrestling with the overall outline. Heading home to Mass in the morning, it ll be good to get back into the shop. Somehow I picked up an infection in my jaw, antibiotics are finally working and the pain is subsiding. Great way to end a vacation. Oh well.
> 
> - theoldfart


Sucky! Heal fast my friend.


----------



## mikelaw

I posted this bench back in May '15 but not sure where I left off with pics. My apologies if it's redundant but I've got the bench to just about where I want it. The leg vise and tail vise are done (except for gluing on some rawhide) and the top and sides are cleaned up. I also added a shelf on the bottom. The wood has been in my garage for 2 1/2 years now and the top still requires significant amounts of flattening. Fortunately, I've got a little extra wood to work with.


----------



## JayT

> Fortunately, I ve got a little extra wood to work with.
> 
> - mikelaw


Ya think? Lawl!

Bench looks great, nice and beefy. Starting to get to the point that Schwarz refers to as "After a few years of use, your bench will look like every other used bench - beat up, broke in and awesome."


----------



## Brit

Ok Terry I'll ask. WTF is going on with that goat?


----------



## Boatman53

Nice job on the bench Mike. Glad you like the vise arraignment. I use my quick release leg vise all the time.
Jim


----------



## JayT

Andy, you must have missed his post from the "State of the Shop" thread a few months ago.


----------



## Brit

Thanks Jay, I did miss that. Hilarious, but also very practical.


----------



## terryR

Nice and beefy. Love the mass; until it's time to move across country…

Nice to see another chain drive rigged through the lower stretcher…I feel better now although my stretchers look wimpy compared to mike's.

Andy, the pvc looks goofy, but works like a dream! Wish we could make millions on a Gorilla tape endorsement…it's great tape!


----------



## Hammerthumb

That bench is a beauty Mike. Can't remember if you posted the estimated weight. This must be one of the heaviest benches on the thread!


----------



## terryR

planning to weigh my bench the next time I flip it…end vise install.
wife has a livestock scale that reaches 600 pounds…

might need 2scales for mike's bench?


----------



## mikelaw

Terry, Paul,

I'm guessing between 500-600 lbs. After 250 or so, it really doesn't matter, I think.

Paul, thanks for the compliment but note that I use very low quality pics for a reason. It covers up some otherwise glaring mistakes. But, hey, it's a workbench and it gets the job done.

One editorial comment: for those considering the purchase of the Hovarter VX20 vise, I suspect that the handle actually may do a better job than the wheel I'm using. You slide the vise up to the work piece and then turn the wheel/handle up to one rotation; that's all it will turn. The wheel makes sense if you're spinning the vise screw from one spot to another but, with this system, you slide the vise up to the work piece and then tighten it down. Bottom line, save yourself a few bucks and just get the basic handle. The VX20 is absolutely awesome and I've had it in place for several months now without a single problem. Watching those Benchcrafted wheels spinning non-stop is a testament to their workmanship but I'd just as well slide and tighten in half the time with my Hovarter vise.


----------



## terryR

Maybe we need to set aside one day a week for small mistakes from our benches? 

Here you can clearly see the gaps in my finger joints before walnut wedges are placed. And the walnut is still proud since I've been lazy. But, it's all good!










edit…just noticed I've forgotten to pin the cap! doh!


----------



## mikelaw

Terry,

Like I said, hey, it's a workbench.

I'm making my mistakes in the garage so that, hopefully, I won't make too many when renovating the bathroom and kitchen.


----------



## mchapman87

Well given the forum topic I feel my comment/questions would be a perfect fit for this thread. I am getting ready to build my first Roubo style inspired bench. I am making it out of salvaged material that I got for free from the remodel they did at my work. I have solid red oak and hickory for the base, but I haven't decided what I want to make the top out of. I managed to salvage about 300 bf of clean, straight 2×4's that are just sitting here stacked up in my shop. The majority of it is pine, there may be some doug fir here and there. My question is. Say I rip down those two by's down to 3 or 3.5 and piece them together butcher block style. I will be face gluing and using pocket screws, so I feel that it would be structurally sound. I have reservations on how the dog strip would hold up to constant clamping. Would the softness of the pine eventually waller out the holes for the dogs? Should I use a hardwood strip for my dog section? I have some leftover hardwood stock that I will use to mount my tail vise and front vise, but I don't want to make a base that is heirloom quality, with a top that will be junk after a while of usage. What is everyone's thought on this?


----------



## DanKrager

To buy time to get the "proper" top materials, you could design the top to be "removable" when you get ready to put on the "heirloom" quality top. This would get your bench in service with a top you wouldn't be afraid to USE! Even if you used through tenons, it wouldn't be unthinkable to cut off the old top and clean up the tenons. It would also give you a chance to redo any unsuitable vise (or other top related) situation. If the pine dog holes wallered out, it would motivate the change, but I don't think you'll experience that. You don't need to clamp THAT hard, usually. Spruce and maybe some cedars are the only pines that might be undesirable, especially in the dog row.

Also, burying metal in the laminated top is not only unwise, it is unnecessary. Parallel grain glueups are at least as strong as the wood itself. This assumes good fit, proper amounts of glue, adequate clamping, and sufficient cure time above 60°.

Keep us posted! We love to see new benches under way.
DanK


----------



## JayT

+1 to DanK.

Pocket screws are unnecessary, the glue is stronger than the wood. Just make sure you get them clamped well on glueup. The top of my bench is SPF construction lumber and I haven't had any issues with the dog holes, yet. I build the bench as a knockdown with the idea of replacing the top with something more durable after using it for a year or so. Two and half years later, I'm not even worried about it, the softwood top has functioned great and stood up very well. I'm sure with enough use, the holes will wallow out, but by that point, I'll probably want to build a new bench anyways.

Another option would be to laminate a couple strips of the hickory or oak in the top where the dog strip will go, if you have enough.


----------



## mchapman87

I have more oak than I do hickory. I work at a ford dealership and when they built the addition they had the steel beams unloaded separated by 4×4 solid cribbage. I took all that bunking home and planed it smooth, which is what I want to use as my base naturally because it's solid. Thanks for the tip on the pocket screws. In theory with your opinions all those would do is create more work. My time in the shop is sporadic at the moment. We have a nine month old that makes me run back and fourth from my garage constantly. I would love to add a hard maple top to it but buying hard maple here in small town Missouri is comparable to having to sell a body part. I have 66 acres of standing timber so realistically I could literally cut down my own hardwood for this project. With the expense of having it milled and dried is not Feaseable right now and the materials I have on hand were free and I can't beat that.


----------



## woodcox

I have a large apron and dog row in rock maple about 7 1/2" worth glued to a pine center section. I also used two large/long lag bolts through all of it into the pine section. Almost two years and the glue line still looks great. At the time I was unsure about any different movements between the two species, so I figured it couldn't hurt so long as I was wary of them when making holdfast and dog holes.


----------



## theoldfart

Got some quality time in the shop today and did some bench tweaking.
Fine tuned the end vise so it'll hold a sheet of paper tight across its full width









Cut off and recessed the criss cross pins.









And trimmed the tenons relative to the bench top (ignore the gaps, I'll do better next time!)


















Next up shape the leg vise chop, put an ogee on the end vise chop, flatten the top, dog holes, and oil finish.


----------



## DanKrager

Progress is being made! Good show old timer!

DanK


----------



## duckmilk

I really like the bench Kev, and a bunch of your ideas. You gonna post a blog about the build?


----------



## theoldfart

Yes I will Duck. I have to sort through lots of pics and I want to wait till I'm 100% finished. It will be in our lifetime!


----------



## gadget01

Just recently got this functional. Still have many details to complete. Part of the plan is to use the right side like a Festool MFT with precision cut dog holes. Being on tight budget… cheap grade plywood was used for most of the panels on a 2×6 ladder base frame. The top is 2 layers 3/4" MDF and a hardboard top.




























It's not very pretty (aside from the Incra hardware), but it does what I need in the small space I have for now.


----------



## Fired_Yo_Momma

That's like a KIA car with $40,000 in stereo and rims


----------



## CL810

Gadget, that is an awesome workstation. Bodacious!


----------



## Tugboater78

> Maybe we need to set aside one day a week for small mistakes from our benches?
> 
> Here you can clearly see the gaps in my finger joints before walnut wedges are placed. And the walnut is still proud since I ve been lazy. But, it s all good!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit…just noticed I ve forgotten to pin the cap! doh!
> 
> - terryR


I need me one of those stools..










Legvice soon, hopefully..


----------



## splatman

> - gadget01


I see some Rockin' H Woodshop 1-uppage there.


----------



## DanKrager

Gadget, you've done yourself proud there, man.

Paint, even two coats, won't take up much space… just sayin'

DanK


----------



## gadget01

> Gadget, you ve done yourself proud there, man.
> 
> Paint, even two coats, won t take up much space… just sayin
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Thanks for the kind words.

Dan, totally agreed- I have a can of paint designated for this purpose and hope to get after it this week. I also intend to make full-extension drawers for the spaces below. I closed it in the back with a solid sheet for structural integrity and box in the saw and router for more effective dust collection.

Cheers,

Adam


----------



## ToddJB

Cool old Moxon vise popped up on CL, though they are calling it a book press, maybe it was.

https://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5382059724.html


----------



## Tugboater78

> Cool old Moxon vise popped up on CL, though they are calling it a book press, maybe it was.
> 
> https://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5382059724.html
> 
> - ToddJB


Aye its what Tom Fidgen calls the moxon he made.


----------



## theoldfart

Todd, I have two of those. One came from an organ builder the other was just a flea market find.


----------



## ToddJB

Interesting. More than I want to spend at the moment, but it would fit nicely with my old bench.


----------



## DLK

Looks like a lying press used for sewing the spine. But I have to admit, adding headbands, etc., it never occured to me until now that alying press and moxon vise are the same.


----------



## waho6o9

Anyone around NC can order a Roubo kit from the mill:

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/wMyers/rouboKits/rouboKits-01.asp

He has enough logs for approximately ten benches; if you are interested in one of these kits you can contact Lesley at [email protected]










HTH some one


----------



## theoldfart

Got a few minutes to work on the bench so I trimmed the top of the leg vise chop


















Also added cork to both the end and leg vises


----------



## jmartel

Looking good, OF. Must be getting close now, right?


----------



## shampeon

That's a good looking leg vise, OF.


----------



## theoldfart

Jortho, Yup, just flattening the top, drill dog holes and an oil finish.

Thanks Ian.


----------



## TheFridge

Slow but steady wins the race eh? 

(Sorry, gotta harass someone now that stef has miraculously finished his bench)


----------



## theoldfart

Steady? Who me? Haha!


----------



## TheFridge

Ok, slow but not quite glacial pace


----------



## theoldfart

Ok


----------



## bearkatwood

Finally got my base started!! Woo hoo!


----------



## drcodfish

BKWood: Is that a tool cabinet hanging on the wall? Would love to see some close ups of that.


----------



## bearkatwood

You can see more of it on the blog,
http://lumberjocks.com/bearkatwood/blog/71810
and a little at the end of the video. I am working on the video of the tool cabinet right now.


----------



## CL810

Very nice Kevin! Unique.



> - theoldfart


----------



## TheFridge

Just need some undermount drawer slides and slap some wax on top the BLO. One of my favorite parts is the figured walnut pull. Didn't get a good pic but it's got some movement.

Still have a to figure out some kinda racking device for my leg vise and level the top one last time before I can bondo.


----------



## john2005

^Friggen sweet. All day


----------



## daddywoofdawg

So can you even use a hold down on a 6"thick bench?


----------



## benchbuilder

Thats a really nice start bearkatwood, I also like your sign and that cabinet is a work of art. I love it, I bet your bench will be as great as all your work!!!!


----------



## bearkatwood

Having those chisels hinge out is clever, nice work. I like the contrasting woods. Lie-Nielsen chisels are awesome, I have a few. Not a full set, wow. I saw that they soak them in liquid nitrogen to cure them, very cool.




I have been working on the tool holders for my cabinet as I can. I made it all with cleats so everything is modular and can move around as I get sick of it 








I have done most everything by hand, but I wanted to incorporate a little bit of everything I do into the cabinet. I do a little bit of work on my cnc so I printed out some chunks that will eventually become my chisel holder.









I started this build almost two months ago on the 22nd of Nov. I am hoping to have the bench picture ready by the two month mark, but I have a lot yet to do. I have tons of work to get the inside of the cabinet done as well. I found a cool saying in japanese script that I want to have on the japanese saw holder. It is kind of kin to the "many strokes fell great oaks" saying.










The bench is going to be a split top with barley twist legs. I have some plans to make a mechanism underneath to lift the split easily and have a hook past the leg vise that slides out. Lots of work yet to do, I better get at it. Have a great day, check out my blog and get people to subscribe to my youtube channel so I won't be lonely. Lots of videos to come.








































































Killer shot of the top of my head. 
The hardware is all benchcrafted. So far in the build I have used black hardware. Benchcrafted doesn't make black stuff so I am going to use gun bluing to make it black. HAha ha haa haa. evil laugh!! Ha ha ha. rubbing my hand together sinisterly Ha ha ha. I will be the only kid on my block with black benchcrafted hardware, I might even turn my own knobs 
Have a great day everyone and have fun woodworking.


----------



## terryR

Nice work, guys!

Jealous of that huge mortiser, Brian. Shop looks grand…

Fridge, you're just building stuff to postpone yer Bondo pose? Awesome till BTW.

Kevin, chop looks great…massive. That square front edge is calling my left hand; I hit the chop too frequently whilst planing! How ya gonna flatten the top?


----------



## ToddJB

Brian are you forgoing the slight twist legs?


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, I'm probably going to tapper the chop some more. Doing it slowly.
Flattening to be done with Heft and Hubris and it's little brother number 7.


----------



## bearkatwood

I think I will be turning the legs today, I will have some pics tonight.


----------



## ToddJB

Awesome. I just looked at pics (reading is hard for the simple minded), so I assumed you already glued it up.


----------



## bearkatwood

How you like them apples 



















WOW! I like it.


----------



## ToddJB

um. yep.


----------



## terryR

damn.
sexy.


----------



## bearkatwood

Dang man, Thanks. I thought you guys were getting hard to impress.
I got all the legs turned and routed out for the leg vise hardware. I then filled in that section with some square stock. I will go back and rout it out again for the hardware to fit right.













































I will have more on the blog here in a bit. Take care.


----------



## john2005

^Brian, do you sleep? Or did you do this whole thing a year or two ago (still less time than it would take me to do it) and are just now spreading out the pics? Whatever you are doing, it is an impressive show!


----------



## bearkatwood

I started on the remodel on Nov. 22nd and I am getting close to two months in. I still have a lot of work to go, but yeah it went kind of fast. It helps that my shop is pretty efficient.


----------



## TheFridge

Daddy woof, I think gramercy recommends no thicker than 3".

BKW, thanks. LN chisels are awesome and I've kinda kept up with your blog. I'm super jelly. Great stuff.


----------



## TheFridge

Terry, maybe… ...


----------



## bearkatwood

Fridge, I have two mortise chisels from LN and I wish I could get the whole set, they stay sharp forever. Might have to sell off a kid to get em'
I just put out tonight's blog.
http://lumberjocks.com/bearkatwood/blog/76202


----------



## TheFridge

Well good luck with that. My 3rd will be here anyday now so I can't afford another. Otherwise I'd do you a solid and take at least one off your hands.


----------



## splatman

YouTube user Jay Bates built a smackdown-worthy workbench.


----------



## woodcox

^ I watched that just last night and was thinking the same thing. His videos are good and come along way in the few years I have been following along. His bench is a pine beast! Looking forward to see him outfit it.


----------



## bearkatwood

Man I thought I was going to beat Jay on his bench, that guy moves fast. Just watched it. That thing is a beast. 
I just watched Matt Cremona's update where he plugged my video and I had about an hour this morning reading through my email.


----------



## mramseyISU

> So can you even use a hold down on a 6"thick bench?
> 
> - daddywoofdawg


You can do one of two things. You can buy some monster holdfasts made for those thick benches or you can just counter bore the bottom of the bench like I did so it's only 2" thick around the dog holes.


----------



## shampeon

mramseyISU: Extra long holdfasts won't work. You'd also need to enlarge the holes. The problem with holdfasts in thick tops is that there isn't enough of an angle to create a wedge. It's the wedge that keeps the holdfasts from moving when it's been tapped into place.

Counterboring the bottom, like you did, is the best move.


----------



## theoldfart

Just posted this to the wrong thread, uhhhh

My end vise chop









Looking for pics to get ideas for decorating mine i.e. ogees cyma curves and the like.


----------



## CL810

+1 to Shamp's comments regarding holdfasts. Let me add that Gramercy's holdfasts work fine in 3.5" thick top without counter boring. But beyond that it gets iffy. Also, hitting up and down the gripping area of the shafts with a punch/nail set helps a lot.


----------



## CL810

Kev, your chop is so unique should your end vise chop "co-ordinate"?


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, that is one possibility. I may bevel the top of my leg vise a little bit more so i'll have to sketch the slope on the end chop and see if it works aesthetically.


----------



## lateralus819

Heres mine Kev if it helps. I think the neatest looking thing I did was the chamfer/lambs tongue.


----------



## bearkatwood

Looks nice!


----------



## summerfi

Kevin, I suggest you work some lamb's tongue details into your vise.


----------



## lateralus819

Well that's two votes Kev.

It's really easy to do. I was surprised I didn't mess it up.

My bench looks beat now. Kinda funny how that works. I just put a fresh coat of wax on it looks like new aside from the saw and chisel marks lol.


----------



## chrisstef

FWIW - my 5" thick bench took a little bit of file work to get holdfasts to hold but no counter bore. I just ran a file around the dog holes a few times. I had my holdfasts forged by another LJ, Tim over at a slice of wood workshop, and from the bend they are 11" long.


----------



## theoldfart

thought I posted earlier, but lambs tongue challenge is accepted!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That'll look awesome, Kev. You'll knock it out of the park!


----------



## theoldfart

I hope so. The challenge will be not to overdo it. I have plain chamfers on all of the outside faces on the legs as well as the stretchers( except for the front where the deadman is).

So we'll start with the end vise and see!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I totally get what you're saying. re: striking the right balance.


----------



## theoldfart

yup


----------



## duckmilk

-"With every tool obtained, there is another that is needed" DonW ( Kevin )

Just noticed this Kev, sooooo, that's what our problem is. We're doomed.


----------



## theoldfart

Problem? What problem? I'd prefer to call it idiotsynchratic behavior!


----------



## bearkatwood

Sides are glued up!









I used square hickory plugs for the draw-bore pegs. They worked great and really sucked it together, It didn't need clamps, but I left them there just for extra umpf!


----------



## bkseitz

Like the chisel rack / cabinet -maybe some day when I switch to more conventional woodworking projects. For now its getting the workshop in order -thx


----------



## CB_Cohick

Brian, I have been drooling over your workshop makeover like lots of others. Are those legs you are working on for your bench solid walnut? That is some serious wood, son!


----------



## bearkatwood

Yes they are walnut, I laminated two pieces to get that thick. Thanks, glad you like it. I have been having a blast doing it and sharing it.


----------



## DanKrager

Brian, have mercy! I'm running out of drool….

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Will this work?


----------



## shampeon

Beautiful.


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks.


----------



## ToddJB

Uh, yep - that will work just fine. Looks great.


----------



## CL810

Yep.


----------



## yuridichesky

Very nice!


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks all.


----------



## DanKrager

Your lambs have very long tongues TOF, but long tongues have their advantages.

DanK


----------



## ToddJB




----------



## putty

^ I see a yeast infection in there


----------



## bearkatwood

I got the bench leveled and the top mortised in place today.


----------



## TheFridge

The new age studley


----------



## bearkatwood

That is a bit of a stretch, but thanks. Studleys' cabinet belongs in a museum, mine belongs in my shop


----------



## summerfi

Woah Kevin. I like!

Looking very classy Brian.


----------



## BurlyBob

That is really nice looking. All your improvements are super nice looking.


----------



## TheFridge

Seeing the bench under the tool cabinet, the look of studleys setup was the first thing that popped in my head. Yeah it's a stretch but hey, I really couldn't come up with another compliment that would do it justice.

Except for maybe that your setup is fap worthy. Spankerific and such.

Just don't leave me in a room alone with your completed bench because magic will happen in some dogholes.


----------



## JayDee70

Man this is a very long thread, got through about 15 posts before realizing that there was nearly 17,000. I might as well add to it and help it to the 17,000.
I built my shop in 2009 when I retired and one of the first projects I completed in it was my work bench. It is styled after a cabinet makers bench but I don't claim to be a cabinet maker, more of a JOT if truth be know. I found a pattern online that I liked and use it as the basis for the bench but used my own dimensions.
It uses Rockler quick release clamps for the two clamps. It is made from reclaimed but solid maple 1×4s(table) and 1×6s(skirt), legs are also reclaimed maple 1×4s. After being in the shop for a year or so I discovered Ink Pen turning and other turnings and got tired of cleaning my pen making materials off the workbench when I need it for flat work so I made another one very similar construction but smaller as a pen assembly station. Take a look and see if they inspire anyone to try their hand at it.

My cabinet maker's benchthe legs lack finish at this point)


















My pen maker's bench:


----------



## Random591

Another post to get me past 5.


----------



## BurlyBob

JD, I really like the looks of that drawer cabinet in the last picture. I sure caught my eye.


----------



## JayDee70

> JD, I really like the looks of that drawer cabinet in the last picture. I sure caught my eye.
> - BurlyBob


Hi Bob, sorry to disappoint but it's nothing I had anything to do with except to purchase from Grizzly. It is actually a great and high quality yet fairly inexpensive cabinet, so far as I can tell it is all solid woods at least the drawers and what can be seen of the inside of the box structure. So don't zing me too hard for buying instead of making. buying seemed expedient at the time, I was in the process of setting up my shop. ;-)

Edit: If you check out my shop tour you will see that I added a couple more Grizzlys. One way to the left of this one is an oak tool box and the one right beside this one and an identical on on top of it is a Harbor freight tool box. The HF is no where close the same quality as the Grizzlys, and the Grizzlys aren't what would be call premium, just good value.


----------



## Northwest29

That is one dang fine looking bench Brian!


----------



## BrianNH

I finished up my Benchcrafted Shaker Bench yesterday afternoon and already posted separately, but wanted to add my pic to this thread. I started my bench build back in April of last year, so it took me about 10 months to complete. I posted pics of the completed base cabinet back in the summer. Here's the finished bench!










The base is constructed from poplar and cabinet grade plywood. The top is 2 1/8" thick hard maple.


----------



## BurlyBob

That is a mighty fine looking bench. I'm still pondering my bench. I hope it looks half as nice as yours.


----------



## Spelcher

Hi guys, I've been trying to read through this thread before posting, but after a few weeks, I've given up on that getting accomplished any time soon… There is some amazing craftsmanship and ingenuity on this thread - it's a lot to digest!

I inherited a bench about eight years ago from someone with back problems, who accordingly built it about 40" tall. It also had an awful end vise.

I was bit by the hand tool bug last fall and decided I needed to have a bench at a good working height to learn how to use all those fun old tools, so I dismantled the base and made a new one, modelled roughly on the old one but burlier. It was my first foray into hand tool joinery, bashing on a 1" mortise chisel. I picked up a Veritas Twin Screw for the end vise, and an old Record 52 1/2 for a face vise. I planned to just stick the vises on, flatten the top, and be done with it, but this thread is making my head spin with ideas…

The current top is laminated Doug-fir 2×4s with oak skirts and vise chop. It's a decent size (5' x 19" without tool tray), and I like the tool tray. I came across a stack of 12' x 10" x 2" tropical hardwood (some kind of mahogany?) at the Restore for cheaper than knotty pine last year, and was going to laminate a piece across the front of the bench that would include the face vise rear chop, and laminate some Douglas-fir to fill the space between the end-vise and the tool tray, to give the end-vise a bit more width. I was also thinking of adding a piece onto the right leg to bring the leg up to the front edge of the bench (saw that in Schwarz' bench book somewhere), and adding a sliding deadman.

The existing top has dog and holdfast holes in all the wrong spots, so i would want to drill new ones, and maybe plug some of the old ones - or, I do have enough of the mahogany to make a whole new top out of it.

Here's the old top temporarily attached to the new base:

















Here's the latest sketchup ponderings of new top potential, haven't managed to draw the twin screw end vise yet:









And the hardwood just asking to be laminated into a new top…:









I am very much open to comments/suggestions.
-Jason


----------



## CL810

Jason, welcome to the madness. I'm curious how much space you have. In time I suspect you may find 5' too short. If you have space I'd suggest keeping the 40" tall bench and turn it into a joinery bench. Then use you new found wood for a top on the base you made.


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks CL810, another part of my indecisiveness is that I'm downsizing my shop - I'm going to have to move from most of a 1.5 car garage to 30% of a 2 car garage. So in the new shop the bench will be against a wall with very little room on either side.

The downsizing is a bit of an incentive to go farther down the hand tool wormhole, but it's going to be hard to shed the big power tools. I'm going to jettison the 6" jointer and radial arm saw first, and switch my router table to Mauricio's workbench-mounted style, which leaves me with the table saw, band saw, drill press, lunchbox planer, grinder and sharpening station, and lathe to try to fit into a small space along with the workbench. So, unfortunately, a separate joinery bench is out of the question….

A lot of people and a lot of literature suggest a 6' minimum workbench - has anyone had one closer to 5' and found it too small? That is another consideration for going with the entire new top build, the hardwood I have is enough to make a 6' bench, though that certainly won't make things easier trying to fit into the new shop.

I do hope, though, that the bench will long outlive the small shop I am currently moving into - I'm hoping it's just for a couple years at the most…


----------



## TheFridge

I have a 4' bench that suits my space but It can be a pain when working on many things at once. Or a large panel and you have to work on something else . If you can go longer then go longer.

Edit: I know everyone is different but there is absolutely no way I could get rid of my jointer.


----------



## CL810

Ya, Jason, the space issue is a problem. A lot of great furniture has been made off 5' benches. But I'd keep my jointer in the living room before I got rid of mine.


----------



## Spelcher

Ooh, the living room! I hadn't thought of that. I'll ask the wife…


----------



## john2005

Late to the show as always. That is hooooottttt OF!

Brian, I'm with Dan, drooling with every pic. Keep em coming.


----------



## TheFridge

> Ya, Jason, the space issue is a problem. A lot of great furniture has been made off 5 benches. But I d keep my jointer in the living room before I got rid of mine.
> 
> - CL810


Amen brother.


----------



## Tugboater78

Nice setup jaydee

I used to drag race down your way and lived in sterlin

Brian, excellent example of a shaker bench, makes me want to rebuild my bench and make it a shaker, it may just be the green though.


----------



## ssnvet

I have to add my vote to the "don't give up you're jointer" ticket.

I don't think you'll find trueing up a stack of rough hardwood for a big project with hand planes.

I also suggest NOT using the Mahogany for the bench. Maybe some accents, but not the bench. It has a higher calling in life that is just awaiting your imagination to set free.


----------



## Spelcher

Oh man, you guys aren't making this whole downsizing thing any easier…. Any inspirational stories from anyone who's given up their power jointer for hand planes?

I agree it sounds pretty crazy to use that mahogany (if that's what it is…) for a bench top, but I already have it, it's nice and heavy, and it's about the exact amount I'd want. Here even Douglas-fir would be super expensive for a top, and I don't have anything I've milled long enough to work.

The mahogany is covered in powderpost beetle holes, but I think that adds to the charm. Probably why it was so cheap, though it shouldn't have been that cheap - I think I paid $100 for the whole stack!

Jaydee, I love the penmaking bench - what kind of lathe do you use for pens?


----------



## CL810

I need new glasses. Completely missed Brian's bench. Wow! Great build Brian!


----------



## ssnvet

Jason,

Why would wood be expensive in BC? I thought you guys invented it :^p


----------



## DanKrager

Well, Jason, I wasn't going to speak up because everyone here knows I have no use for a power jointer in my shop. I have a choice to joint timbers by hand or use the very expensive blade on my table saw which will do up to 3" thick without hesitation in one pass. With a proper table saw setup one can very safely joint almost any length timber straight. My shop is designed around 10' stock, so I maintain two master straight edges using a QS 1×8 x 10'6" and another shorter one just over 7'.
I won't begrudge anyone the use of a jointer if they want, I found a better way for me, IMHO. 
DanK


----------



## bandit571

> Oh man, you guys aren t making this whole downsizing thing any easier…. Any inspirational stories from anyone who s given up their power jointer for hand planes?
> 
> Look no further than my avatar…..mainly due to zero room for a motorized jointer. Also, check out my signiture line..
> 
> - Spelcher


----------



## ToddJB

Dan, you screw the piece to your straight edge, and then put the straight edge against the fence?


----------



## DanKrager

Almost, Todd. If one lays the piece to be jointed on top of anything you lose the capacity of whatever thickness the straight edge is. I put the straight edge on top of the board and run it against a 4" wide x 30" long fence accessory whose straight edge is set just above the "outside" edge of the blade. Waste goes under the accessory. I use only one screw at the operator end. The other end is held by a coarse band saw blade set at an agressive angle so the jointed piece can be "jammed" into it securing the far end.
How long would it take a jointer to put a straight edge on this? 








DanK


----------



## ToddJB

Dang Dan, I'm having a hard time envisioning what you're saying. No rush, but when you get a chance can you throw up a pic?


----------



## DanKrager

Sure, Todd. Descriptions are hard sometimes. These are the only "photos" I can put my hands on. Somewhere on this site I posted photos of the process and they may be the only ones that exist until I take more. Sometimes I purge photos aggresively.

This is a sketchup of the L shaped fence accessory. The left edge of the accessory (away from the fence) lines up with the blade so that the blade is just under the accessory and even with it on the "outboard" (left) side of the blade. My straight edge, secured atop the work piece rides against the edge of the accessory. 









This shows the grip on the work piece away from the operator. The other end is secured with a screw very near the end of the work piece in what will be waste. This is the outboard view…the grip is recessed from the straight edge at the left of this photo.









There is no snipe.
DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ That grip end is brilliant.


----------



## ToddJB

Got it. Thanks, Fan. Clever


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks for the explanation Dan, that is a great setup. It looks like like stock thicker than 3" wouldn't be much of a pain because, if I understand it right, the straightedge lies right on the saw line, so it would be easy to align once flipped over, even for long boards.


----------



## theoldfart

The end vise is working really well, the cork faces seems be holding up. I can actually work from both sides of the bench.


----------



## terryR

Hope that vise works as nice as it looks!


----------



## Spelcher

I love the chamfer on the outer chop Kevin - it's beautiful. Is that cherry?


----------



## theoldfart

Yes, from a friends farm.


----------



## Spelcher

Has anyone had to rip a glued up top narrower? I think I may need to do this soon if I incorporate my old top into my new one. 
Am thinking bandsaw with a bunch of support tables but it seems like a monster task and my bandsaw is pretty underpowered. Maybe table saw rip and finish depth with handsaw? - any other ideas? - it's about 3.5" thick…


----------



## theoldfart

Probably a skill saw. I ripped some stock that thick. Two passes, one on top and one under neath. Then finish with a hand saw. I'll find pics in a moment.

Seems a shame to cut unto that beauty though…....

from this









to this









to this


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks Kevin, that makes way more sense - I don't know why my brain was stuck on standing machines.
It's old laminated Doug-fir 2×4s with 5/8" mahogany strips at each end. The front edge is pretty rough, and I want to laminate a 2" hardwood front edge with a slot for the face vise without adding too much width.

Still not sure what to do with the existing dog holes - I was thinking of a row 1 3/4" from the front edge with 3" centres, but some of the existing ones will be a bit too close to that line. I guess a couple gaps in the row is okay - extra random holdfast holes could be nice too…


----------



## Mosquito

I too went the circular saw route. Though instead of top and bottom, I just cut as deep as I could from the top with a straight guide (in 3 passes), and then finished the last inch by hand as well.

Could also see about finding someone with a beam saw, or a place to rent one too.


----------



## theoldfart

Just watch out for embedded nails or bolts, saw blades don't like 'em!


----------



## Spelcher

-Good call Mos. You just made me realize I've now got an excuse to get the Beam Machine! http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=20126&cat=1,41131

-Good call Kevin. Yesterday I took a lot of life off my best 3/4" brace auger and an auger bit file when I discovered a discarded brad nail when boring through the rest of a blind dog hole.


----------



## ToddJB

Jason, never heard of the beam machine before. Looks super simple and effective. I looked up some folks using them on YouTube. Seems quick and simple. Thanks for the link.


----------



## Mosquito

I'd never heard of it before either, neat idea


----------



## drcodfish

I hate to be the one to f-art in the elevator but have you thought this all the way through to the end? I think I get where you are coming from (soft wood top) but as I look at the pic of your bench it looks like a very nice item as is.

Do the benefits of this 'upgrade' outweigh the challenges? You are already grappling with how to cut the top. I have years of experience hanging on to the friendly end of a chain saw and I can tell you, making the cut will be nothing compared to how much work smoothing it will be. And as already mentioned you better make double danged sure you don't run into any metal, that won't mess up your chain so much as it will likely throw the whole works up and back into your face. The chain saw is the most dangerous power hand tool. (don't ask me how I know this)

Than there is the issue of the dog holes as you have already described, and what about the new bench height? Can you live with it or will it require messing wiht the legs which would be another big, messy job as I look at the bench.

If you already have you new top, have you considered selling this bench as is and then building the trestle for your new top with the money you get from the sale of what looks like a pretty nice bench.

I realize I am only seeing a snap shot of the big picture so please forgive me if I am off target here. What ever you do please keep us posted, I an anxious to see how the project progresses.


----------



## Mosquito

^ I think those are all valid points


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks Dr C, I've got a bit of experience with saw chain








(my full-time hobby that funds my other hobbies is running a tree service)
 
Good points though- it would be a lot of work to smooth it with hand planes after a chainsaw rip.

The bench height issue I just fixed - I just finished building the base in the photo, the one that came with the top was way too high and not very stout. I'm pretty happy with the way the base turned out (my first foray into hand-tool joinery), though I am going to glue an extension to the right side leg to make it flush with the top.

I'm not too worried about the top being softwood - old Douglas-fir gets pretty hard as it ages, I'm more wanting a nice new front edge to the top to attach a big face vise, I'm also wanting to tweak the tool well a bit and replace the breadboard ends and install a twin screw end vise.

It's a tough decision whether to renovate the top or start a new one… I would really like it to be about 6" longer, and it will be a bit tricky to upgrade it, and dog hole arrangement will be tricky. I also have an ideal stack of hardwood to make a new top from scratch.

On the other hand, the original bench was given to me by someone dear to me who has since passed away - so there's that… Though I'm sure I would find another use for it if I build a new top.


----------



## mramseyISU

> -Good call Mos. You just made me realize I ve now got an excuse to get the Beam Machine! http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=20126&cat=1,41131
> 
> -Good call Kevin. Yesterday I took a lot of life off my best 3/4" brace auger and an auger bit file when I discovered a discarded brad nail when boring through the rest of a blind dog hole.
> 
> - Spelcher


I need one of those. Don't ask me what I'm going to use it for but I need one. My 051 stihl will look good hanging off of that.


----------



## DLK

Me I would either take to guy, say with a good wood miser, or better tools. But then I know a guy. Or use a circular saw. and then fish with a handsaw and then hand joint and smooth it. (You might consider flipping it over and use a circular saw on the bottom. Then deal with the inevitable step. I would then plan on laminating a 1 by 4 over the fresh cut, with either glue or screws. Concerning the dog holes you could rip out the center. and either re-laminate or have a split top bench. But I like the idea of selling it.


----------



## Spelcher

Don, why do you recommend laminating the 1×4 over the fresh cut? The reason I want to rip the front side is to laminate a 2" thick piece along the front with a wider portion at the left side and a recess cut out for the face vise.

I couldn't bring myself to sell the top as it has sentimental value to me. If I don't use it on this bench, I'll keep it as an assembly table or something, though it may have to hibernate in storage for a few years until I get a bigger shop…

To clarify, the additions I'm still planning are in orange here (I didn't sketch the joinery for the breadboard ends - I haven't decided on it yet), plus a sliding deadman, a twin-screw end vise, and a storage cabinet with drawers on the stretchers:


----------



## drcodfish

OK I get it now, wonderful what a few details and a pic or two can do. I thought you were wanting to laminate a new top onto the existing top, thus my question about height. The base you built looks very nice. It might not be the prettiest app but you could fill the existing dog holes and then bore a new line which are appropriate to your new vise set up. Do you plan to have a leg vise to take advantage of the dog holes in that leg?

I know about old Doug fir, not sure where you are, I live in western WA State.

My apologies if I came off like a know it all about power saws. Sometimes I get a little full of myself. In your line of work your are sure to have seen more dicey situations than most people. I was a shake bolt cutter, thinner, brush cutter, then went to work for the US Forest Service administering logging contracts.

You could cut that sentimental old top down and convert it into a shelf which you could mount you cabinet on. That way you'd always have a part of it with you in your shop. I do favor having an additional bench for assembly, but like you space is not my friend.

I built my bench (local big leaf maple and DF base) about a year ago, I have yet to build the cabinet and drawers. That will be a real test of my wood working skills.


----------



## DLK

> Don, why do you recommend laminating the 1×4 over the fresh cut? The reason I want to rip the front side is to laminate a 2" thick piece along the front with a wider portion at the left side and a recess cut out for the face vise.
> 
> I couldn t bring myself to sell the top as it has sentimental value to me. If I don t use it on this bench, I ll keep it as an assembly table or something, though it may have to hibernate in storage for a few years until I get a bigger shop…
> 
> To clarify, the additions I m still planning are in orange here (I didn t sketch the joinery for the breadboard ends - I haven t decided on it yet), plus a sliding deadman, a twin-screw end vise, and a storage cabinet with drawers on the stretchers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Spelcher





> Don, why do you recommend laminating the 1×4 over the fresh cut? The reason I want to rip the front side is to laminate a 2" thick piece along the front with a wider portion at the left side and a recess cut out for the face vise.
> 
> - Spelcher


Just guarantee a smooth finished looking surface. Ill depends on how good your are at jointing the new freshly cut edge I guess. Then additional 1 by 4 would cover up any "mistakes".


----------



## Spelcher

Dr C, I am famously good at unclear explanations, which makes sketchup a godsend sometimes…

No apologies needed at all - I'm sure you've seen enough terrifying things done by people inexperienced with chainsaws too. It is always good to spread the word about how dangerous they can be - just your few sentences alone could be enough to make someone think twice and potentially save a life or limb.

I'm in Vancouver BC, neighbour. We get lots of Doug-firs here, but not quite as big as they grow them in Washington - have you ever checked out Lake Quinault? Lately I've been fantasizing about taking a hand tool course at Port Townsend…

I love the idea of cutting the top down for the cabinet shelf! I hadn't thought of that - if I build a new top from scratch, I think that's what I'll do! I designed the base before putting a lot of thought into what I wanted from the bench, so one of the things that bugged me was how tall the stretchers were, as it takes away a lot of useful cabinet space, but it would be cool to fill that space with the thick fir top, which would add a lot of heft and stability - and sentimental value to the whole bench.

No leg vise in the plans - another result of building before thinking. After seeing all the nice ones on this thread, I'm sure I would have gone that route instead… I'm starting to rethink the leg extension with dog holes - it probably wouldn't be that useful with this bench setup if I already have a sliding deadman. I stole the idea from The Workbench Design Book by Chris Schwarz- on his critique of a similar bench base:









Thanks for the compliment on the base - I'm so glad I decided to drawbore all the M & T's, as from the white residue around them it seems like the glue froze during set-up.


----------



## drcodfish

Jason-

your post has me laughing for a bunch of reasons, not the least of which is that we not only have a lot in common as far as locale and background, but also in our approach to bench building (ready, fire aim). Your descriptions are not at fault, I am famously obtuse at reading directions.

I too have the Schwartz book, and I dang near wore it out in the process of building my bench. That book may be the best or worst thing a guy with an itch for a bench could have: so much inspiration you just want to jump right in, but then so many ideas you almost can't avoid going down a certain path a little too far before you have a slight change in plans and well, ... that's how you wind up with stretchers which are a little higher than you would like for incorporating a cabinet, or wanting to change the orientation of the vises, or your skirt hangs down too far for incorporating that cabinet, or the bench legs aren't flush with the edge of the top or, ... on and on.

My inspiration was the Shaker workbench by Glen Huey. I incorporated a couple of very old vises which I refurbished. The end vise is a machinists Rogers Wilcox, over 100 years old but a dandy piece of work and after a little clean up ready for another 100 years. The leg vise was a no name piece a friend rescued from his neighbors burn pile. I sort of photo blogged my bench build, you can see the pics on my flickr page here. I should post a pick of the finished product but it is currently buried under several box projects. In less than three weeks after I finished it I found things I definitely would have done differently or would like to change, just a matter of deciding if the benefit of the changes are worth the trouble of the redo.

I know Quinault only too well, have been there many times for both work and pleasure. I was born on the Olympic peninsula, as was my dad. He was a logger, mill worker, fisherman and jack of all trades. For their 50th wedding anniversary my sibs and I sent them to Quinault lodge for a get away weekend. We flew them in on a float plane, all very upscale. It was very cool as Quinault lodge had always been a little beyond their reach so it felt good to give them a turn at a little luxury in the woods after so many years of hard scrabble.


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## Spelcher

Beautiful bench! and awesome Wilcox vise refurb!
Nice contrast on the walnut end caps.


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## TheFridge

My bench coming into its own. Will complete it one day…


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## Spelcher

Fridge, that looks like a crazy amount of extension for a single screw end vise with a thick chop. Is that a custom vise?
Nice looking chair! What kind of woods?


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## TheFridge

Thanks man. 13" extension homemade. It's pretty much what I had after I cut a 3/4-6×36 Cnc lead screw. Used half for the leg and half for the end vise.

Regular white ash and olive ash for the chairs.


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## vonhagen

a couple of saw horses and a sheet of mdf is all you need unless your just building workbenches for a living and or in some kind of workbench contest, does any of these benches ever make a project?


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## WillliamMSP

> a couple of saw horses and a sheet of mdf is all you need unless your just building workbenches for a living and or in some kind of workbench contest, does any of these benches ever make a project?
> 
> - vonhagen


How much do you use hand tools?


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## terryR

yeah, biscuit jointers and pocket screws don't require a sturdy bench…


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hello Blaine. Trolling today, are we?


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## terryR

^dude even built a shooting board for some reason?
I'm guessing the No.9 went bye bye on fleaBay years ago?


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## Mosquito

lol some people are just daft. Of course all you need is a pair of saw horses and a sheet of MDF. Hell, you don't need to go that far, even. I got by with just a small workmate and folding table for a while. Workbenches are just better.

I bet he drives a car when he should just use a bicycle. Shoot he's probably got feet too, so wouldn't even need a bike; what a posh man I say!

Also LOL @biscuit joiners and pocket screws


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## CL810

Von is a pelican. Swoops in, makes a lot of noise, $hits everywhere and then leaves.


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## TheFridge

I'm pretty sure that chair clamped up on my bench might actually qualify as a project. Gonna have to check the rules.


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## terryR

Mos is right…

our ancestors lived in caves and worked wood with flint. Why did we even change that?


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## summerfi

Saw horses and MDF, who needs that. Real men build their stuff on the ground in the dirt. LOL
Poke a hornet's nest and you should expect to get stung. I find this exchange funny.


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## Mosquito

> our ancestors lived in caves and worked wood with flint. Why did we even change that?
> 
> - terryR


Given a Quonset isn't much different from a cave, and you are holding flint… not sure some of us have changed that


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## theoldfart

^


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## splatman

> - TheFridge


I was almost expecting everything built on that bench to be made of the same mashup of woods the bench is.


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## bandit571

Sometimes, it is more about WHAT the bench can do, than merely what it is made from…


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## rad457

I love ASH! Olive Ash? I am so jealous! Think I may have to build some of them round dogs, been work sort of on a wall cabinet, part of my attempt o clean up the shop. Care to send a plank of that Olive Ash up North, I could send some Birch South? I have my Bench by the way and so far very happy!


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## Spelcher

After waffling incessantly and many sleepless nights, for today at least, I've decided to make a new top out of the tropical hardwood I have on hand. It would allow me to get the finished workbench to 70" long (including the end vise chop) instead of 60" and add some nice weight. I'm thinking 4" thick. Also, it would solve the problem of having nowhere to store the hardwood while I move shops…

Lamination question: It's going into a garage with extreme fluctuations in moisture and temperature. The boards I have look fairly stable, but have a little bit of bow and twist. I've never laminated something this substantial before - they're currently about 1 3/4 thick. My gut tells me I can just plane all the faces smooth and not worry too much about flattening everything, as clamping and glueing will pull everything together. I feel like if I waste a bunch of material first getting flat boards, they'll change to some other shape next week as if it stops raining outside and warms up.

This is what I'm thinking for dimensions right now - I think I'll have to make longer Doug-fir stretchers to cut down the overhang - which is pretty simple to do.


----------



## DanKrager

Spelcher, I hear your concern about movement. And to put it into a bench to move is genius! Hope you got sturdy friends.

4" thick is very hefty for a dense hardwood top. You could do very nicely with 3" thick and if you plan to use hold downs in your dog holes, 3" thickness might give you less trouble. if the woods tend to be oily, then hold downs AND glue up could be an issue to consider.

If you can orient the boards so grain is vertical through the bench top you might have less trouble from movement. QS grain (vertical through thickness) in thinner tops results in very stable tops. Breadboard ends and trestle assemblies acting as cleats will help a great deal. Finally, finish BOTH the top and the bottom equally to minimize and delay moisture movement in an out of the wood.

That'd be a good start.
DanK


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## Spelcher

Thanks Dan - great advice about top thickness - the current Doug-fir one is 3.5" thick and works great with holdfasts, but it makes sense that harder wood wouldn't grip them as well - and I hadn't thought about oiliness. I think it's some kind of mahogany, I've never worked with tropical woods before so hadn't considered it might be oily. I got Hoadley's wood ID book but haven't had success narrowing it down yet.

If I remember right, they might be rift sawn, though it may be that they are flat sawn. When I get to the shop, I'll try to take a picture if the lighting's good to see if anyone knows what kind of wood it is…


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## duckmilk

Rift sawn would be good as well Jason. However, if you are trying to bring twisted boards together and have them hold with glue, you should be taking some precautions. A small amount of bow will work, but with too much bow or twist it will be tougher. Once glued together and with a finish on all sides as Dan says, there should be little movement in the future.


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## TheFridge

Well splat, I didn't have money to spend on a bench so it was either offcuts or cypress and the cypress is too light for a bench. And offcuts were free by the load  unfortunately I didn't know them well enough at the time to ask for the maple they've been giving me lately. For one of my projects I did try to squeeze a bunch of different types of wood into one box because I hate burning stuff.

Thanks Andre. I don't have a whole lot but let me check the stash man. I have some stuff great for small projects (boxes, turnings and such).


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## Spelcher

Thanks Duckmilk, I think I'll start dressing the wood next week and see how straight I can get it. I checked today and it's all flat sawn.

The shop can get quite damp and cold in the winter and hot in the summer. I only have experience with regular wood glue - usually Lee Valley 2002 GF. Does anyone think another glue might be better in these conditions?


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## bandit571

All cleared off, nothing scheduled for it, anyway….


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## DanKrager

Jason, flatsawn boards shouldn't discourage your project. Consider the drawing showing shrinkage and movement. For stable "thin" surfaces, QS is superior, rift is next desirable, flatsawn at the the bottom of the list. If the pith is not near your board, i.e. the grain curve is not steep, this will work. If the grain is tightly curved (as shown in the 2×4 picture) then it won't be quite so successful.
In gluing up your bench, if you lay the flatsawn boards on edge and glue the faces together, then you have a "manufactured" QS or at worst a rift pattern. This arrangement will behave very much like a true QS "thin" panel, i.e. should be quite stable.










DanK


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## rad457

> Thanks Duckmilk, I think I ll start dressing the wood next week and see how straight I can get it. I checked today and it s all flat sawn.
> 
> The shop can get quite damp and cold in the winter and hot in the summer. I only have experience with regular wood glue - usually Lee Valley 2002 GF. Does anyone think another glue might be better in these conditions?
> 
> - Spelcher


My Shop is the opposite, too dry all winter, I use in floor heating so little air circulation, 
Use Titebond II or III as insurance or if you are really concerned Epoxy.


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## duckmilk

Jason, I usually use Titebond and have no experience with the 2002 GF, but I read the description on the LV site. I like the description of the relatively long open time (15 - 20 minutes vs. 10 minutes for Titebond III) which will allow you to glue up a few boards and make sure they are all in alignment before the glue starts setting. I also like the description of the color and gap filling properties. That said, all pva glues will adhere wood similarly and should be stronger than the wood.


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## DanKrager

Certain PVA glues like Titebond II and III have been chemically modified so that they are stronger, dry harder, are more water resistant and are known as aliphatic resins (generally yellow ish) to distinguish them from the white craft glues. The unmodified pva glues are strong but remain flexible to some extent and that allows creep which is undesirable in many glued assemblies. For chair repair I prefer the unmodified pva because a chair's greatest weakness after the joinery is brittle glue. But for panel assemblies and assembles (cabinets, furniture, etc) that don't get wiggled I prefer the aliphatics.

Now before the storm of controversy begins, know that color is not the most reliable indicator of the glue type.

DanK


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## Spelcher

Bandit- that looks like a stout top!

Thanks Dan for the grain alignment info - the boards are flatsawn with a bit of a curve to them, but haven't cupped as much as domestic and European woods I've seen, I wonder if the tropical wood is just more stable?

Andre, Duckmilk & Dan - thanks for sharing your experiences with glues: I've only used GF 2002 to any real extent, but anything glued that stays in the shop is also fastened by some other means - mostly shop appliances etc. Otherwise, everything dependent on glue has been destined for climate-controlled indoor use.

That was a great explanation of aliphatics - I hadn't heard that before, and hadn't heard about creep in normal pva glues. My main concern was whether prolonged damp conditions can allow regular PVA glue to fail… Of course I thought of this after buying a litre of 2002 GF for the glue up…


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## rad457

Some thing else to remember is on a lot of exotic woods you should wipe them down with D.N.A. or Acetone to remove the oils that will weaken any glue joints. Working with some Teak at the moment and the boards feel like they have a layer of wax on them.


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## bandit571

Added a stowage rack or two









Chisels I use all the time, and a few squares I use









Nothing super fancy, mainly scraps..









Got tired of digging up a clamp to rest a board on, while I was using a handplane, added a hold for a dog, or a rest of some sort.









Board can just sit on the rest, no clamp marks.


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## Spelcher

Nice chisel/square storage Bandit - good way to keep some room free in the toolrest.

Andre - thanks for the advice on the oils, I was worried about that a bit. What is D.N.A.?

Does anyone here work much with mahogany? Anything else to watch out for when working it?


----------



## Brit

D.N.A. = Denatured Alcohol or Methylated Spirit for anyone outside the US.


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## Mosquito

In January I built a new bench… it took about a day or two…


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## Brit

What no vise Mos? Where's the Benchcrafted?


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## Mosquito

"Viceless devices" Andy ;-) lol

(That was a reference to a Woodwrights episode http://www.pbs.org/video/2365309201/)


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mahogany is great to work with hand tools, very much like walnut in my experience (YMMV).


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## Mosquito

It has more interlocked grain than walnut, which can cause issues with tear-out, but I've always quite enjoyed working with mahogany. It works well


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## jmartel

It should have a Hovarter vise on it. Also, I hope you built it with the tools that are sitting on said bench. Did you have to make mini-sawhorses for it in order to build?


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## duckmilk

No, he used a mini workmate ;-)


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## Mosquito

lol now THAT would have been hilarious


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## daddywoofdawg

The worst thing about Mahogany is the sticker shock.


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## Spelcher

Thanks for the input on mahogany workability, and the heads-up for the interlocked grain. The sticker shock is the one non-issue in this case - it was cheaper than rotten knotty pine at about $1.50/BF. I have enough in stock in the ideal dimensions, and can't afford to buy more hardwood for the top right now. It does seem weird to use it for a tool for bashing on though…

I love the mini-Roubo and tools!


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## shampeon

/spits out my coffee

You're paying $1.50/bf (Canadian!) for mahogany?


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## AnthonyReed

/spits out my water

You're still drinking coffee at noon?


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## shampeon

3 cups a day, Tony. Early morning, late morning, afternoon.

Coffee is our sister-wife.


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## Miataguy

> Just recently got this functional. Still have many details to complete. Part of the plan is to use the right side like a Festool MFT with precision cut dog holes. Being on tight budget… cheap grade plywood was used for most of the panels on a 2×6 ladder base frame. The top is 2 layers 3/4" MDF and a hardboard top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It s not very pretty (aside from the Incra hardware), but it does what I need in the small space I have for now.
> 
> - Adam


I have the Incra fence and it works very, very well.


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## Spelcher

I know… it was at the restore last year - I was looking for cheap Doug-fir for the trestle base for the bench and they said all they had for wood was a pile under some tarps out in the rain. I looked under and saw a bunch of long 9×1.75" mahogany-ish boards. Just for fun I asked how much it was worth - I normally don't touch exotic woods, and I was gobsmacked at the response. I knew I'd feel guilty, so I asked three times if there had been a mistake before handing my money over for the whole pile…

At least I think it's mahogany… It is full of powderpost beetle holes, but I think that adds to the charm:


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## AnthonyReed

Ha! @ sister-wife.


----------



## DanKrager

Hi Jason. That doesn't look like any mahogany I've ever seen if this is the wood you got. I can't speak with authority to what it actually is.

It's those cute little holes that may be the undoing of this deal and would explain why it was so cheap. Powder post beetles are a pest that you definitely don't want in your shop. If these boards are in your shop, get them out of there ASAP until you are certain that there are no signs of life or potential life. They will be dormant this time of year, so don't assume no life at this point. Later this spring you will see little piles of dust beside a whole new crop of holes and some of the population will move to adjacent wood of choice (and they are not too choosy). 
There are two ways I know of for you to deal with the problem. One is to heat the boards (like a kiln would) to a relatively high temperature for 24 hours or so. The other is to buy a $50 pint of residual beetle killer at the local farm store, mix it up with water and spray it on every side of every board and lit it sit stickered for a life cycle (at this good beginning point, a year and a little bit). 
It's a serious problem that won't go away unless you take assertive action quickly before a new batch hatches. Good luck, man. BTDT. 80,000 lbs of infected lumber treated.
DanK


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## shampeon

Could be meranti/Phillipine mahogany. But yeah, powder post beetles are Very Bad and you'd be smart to heed Dan's advice.


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## daddywoofdawg

> /spits out my coffee
> 
> You re paying $1.50/bf (Canadian!) for mahogany?
> 
> - shampeon


I'd be all over $1.50 bf mahogany!


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## Spelcher

Thanks guys. I picked up the boards in March last year and didn't notice the holes until they'd been in the shop for a month or so… After some intense fear, I did some googling and thought I read that if there was no new frass under the wood, the boards should be vacant. Is there another way to check? I didn't see any sign of beetle activity through the summer and winter - but I'd like to be sure…


----------



## bkseitz

cool design, shaping up well


----------



## TheFridge

Getting closer to done


















Edit: looking at it in the pics I may bite the bullet and make some adjustments to make the slides less visible


----------



## DLK

Add a cleat that covers them maybe.


----------



## terryR

Pretty cool idea, Fridge.
A cleat may hide the nice DT's.
Maybe a DT'd cleat?


----------



## bkseitz

TheFridge cool chisel till, did you post the build?


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## DLK

> Pretty cool idea, Fridge.
> A cleat may hide the nice DT s.
> Maybe a DT d cleat?
> 
> - terryR


Yes but, then make a very nice cleat.


----------



## TheFridge

> TheFridge cool chisel till, did you post the build?
> 
> - bkseitz


Not yet. I post projects in spurts. Horrible habit.

Eff bullets. I no bite them. Reused parts of a previous chisel till and epoxied it on. Also serves the purpose of helping keep junk out the slides. I can live with it.


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## bkseitz

> 3 cups a day, Tony. Early morning, late morning, afternoon.
> 
> Coffee is our sister-wife.
> 
> - shampeon


@shampeon, only 3 cups? That doesn't qualify as a marriage ;-) That's like a first date



> TheFridge cool chisel till, did you post the build?
> 
> - bkseitz
> 
> Not yet. I post projects in spurts. Horrible habit.
> 
> - TheFridge


@TheFridge, I know the feel'in same here. But got so much else going on its hard to keep a consistent rhythm going on for shop projects. Went out for some parts for Router Cabinet build and repairs on my computer with my wife: came back with a new wide screen TV to mount on wall and a list of upgrades to build for goat barn. Well at least I got my 5/16×1 bolts, a set of plywood router bits, and a new hard drive to replace failing one


----------



## CL810

Stumbled upon Carter and Son Forge over on Etsy. A pair of forged holdfasts for $39. Anyone know about these guys?


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, took a look and they seem fine. They are a bit narrow, 1/2" & 5/8", also they said the 5/8" would fit into a number 9 auger bore. A #9 auger is 9/16", that would be a tight fit!


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## theoldfart

I'm finding I really like being able to work on either side of my bench. 









Anybody else find this to be true?


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## DanKrager

TOF, at the risk of starting a war, I now firmly believe that is the only suitable way to locate a workbench…where it can be reached from all sides. Since 1975 my bench(s) have always been located "in the open".

DanK


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## theoldfart

Mine is accessible from all four sides and I've used them all! Long live being in the middle


----------



## DLK

I would so like to be able to use all sides. I can get to 2 easily, 3 by rolling away the drill press and 4 by tearing down a wall.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

This is war…

I advocate three side accessibility, with the bench pulled at least 18" or so away from the wall.

Working on all four sides is simply un'murican.


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## DLK

> This is war…
> 
> I advocate three side accessibility, with the bench pulled at least 18" or so away from the wall.
> 
> Working on all four sides is simply un murican.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


18" bah.. Only 6" or you can't reach the tools on the wall.


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## bandit571

One side and one end,,,some of us don't have the room for anything else…..such is life in a Dungeon..


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## ToddJB

I rock all four sides exposed, as that's how the shop requested it to be, but with the tool well on the back side she doesn't get stood at often.


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## TheFridge

> I rock all four sides exposed, as that s how the shop requested it to be, but with the tool well on the back side she doesn t get stood at often.
> 
> - ToddJB


I'm an all sides of the bench kind of guy too.


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## theoldfart

Stuck in the middle with me









Edit. These show the placement better


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## jmartel

I recently moved my bench to behind my TS as an outfeed table. I like it better than up against the wall. Can't get at it from all 4 sides, though.


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## Spelcher

Mine has been in the middle of the room, but the toolwell has kept me from standing at the back side. With only an end vise I find I've actually spent most of my time standing at the end. I'm hoping that will all change when I get my face vise installed, by which time I will likely have moved into a tiny shop space and be stuck against a wall and between shelving.


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## DLK

I'm not a fan of tool wells on the bench. I had one it just collected stuff. I've thought about a rolling tool well/cabinet or a hang on a french cleat tool well. But no time to work on those.


----------



## drcodfish

TOF:

Nice looking setup/use of space.

I'm doing some major rearranging: I almost froze some toes off between Christmas and new years, and so decided I had to do something about heat. I couldn't make it more than about 3 hours in my uninsulated tin pole building. I went low tech, bought a very old parlor stove, installed stove pipe and insulated chimney, went down to the town hall, bought a permit and called the bldg. inspector. This has changed EVERYTHING! Not just where things go and how to arrange the workstations, but more than that, hours and satisfaction in the shop. So, rearranging/making better use of the space is much more important than it was when it was a walk in cooler. I'll be close to the final solution within a couple weeks, photos to come. It's warm enough out there now I may have to figure some place for the cat and his fleece lined crib.


----------



## rad457

Designed mine for against a wall but then put it with access to 3 sides 18" from the wall on the Tail vise side.
When the wall cabinet is finished it will go on the wall above the Tail vise.


----------



## Spelcher

A heated shop sounds like a dream. I wonder if my productivity would go down though if I wasn't rushing around to keep warm. Probably a lot more measure twice cut once though in a heated shop…


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## DLK

3 or 4 years ago we had a bitter cold winter. Even in my heated garage shop, the shop floor would get so cold I could not stand on the floor for more then 20 minutes with out my feet freezing. I put down a plastic moisture barrier, 1 1/2 foam board, between floating sleepers, and on top screwed into the sleepers 3/4 inch underlayment. My toes are very happy and no tool can fall onto concrete!


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## terryR

Just moved my bench away from the window, and into the middle of the shop 4-5 weeks ago. Never going back! Tool well is always outta control in my shop, but I'm not changing my ways…










Bench and shop both look inviting, Kevin!


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## johnstoneb

My bench has access all around. The tool well will not be on a new bench If I ever build one. All it does is catch crap and limit access and overhang.


----------



## mramseyISU

I wish I had the option to do anything but put my bench against the wall. Just not enough room in my basement shop unless I get rid of my table saw. I like my hand tools but the only way I'm getting rid of that saw is when I get a sawstop.


----------



## rad457

> 3 or 4 years ago we had a bitter cold winter. Even in my heated garage shop, the shop floor would get so cold I could not stand on the floor for more then 20 minutes with out my feet freezing. I put down a plastic moisture barrier, 1 1/2 foam board, between floating sleepers, and on top screwed into the sleepers 3/4 inch underlayment. My toes are very happy and no tool can fall onto concrete!
> 
> - Combo Prof


That would be nice, I went with infloor heating so stuck with concrete, but at least it is warm!


----------



## bandit571

I don't have any access to the back side of mine….Bandsaw, tool chest #2 , and a mitrebox station are in the way..









I may add a second lip to the toolwell, so a plywood cover can be used…..maybe.

Dog holes are excellent places to put the chisels you are using, to keep them from rolling off the bench. Or, even a screwdriver or two can go into them, as well.

End of the bench is where I do the most work, as the is an End Vise, and a Leg Vise at that corner. Other end is smack against the drill press stand, which also stores all the hammers, my $10, 13" scrollsaw, and the 1"x 30" beltsander. I now have a bit of plywood handy, almost a full sheet, and can enclose the back of the legs, and MAYBE add a better bottom shelf.

Clamps and saws….I can just reach up and pull down whatever saw or "F" style clamp I need, as they are hanging from the exsposed ceiling joists.

Have a VERY small and TIGHT work area down there….

Oh, and forgot…I now have a stool I can sit and work from….everyone needs a place to sit down on in a shop, right?


----------



## Spelcher

Bandit, that's a great idea about putting a lip at the top of the toolwell to extend the bench top! I hadn't thought of that. Anyone else tried that?

I do like the idea of a tool well as I think my concrete floors are strongly magnetic.


----------



## DLK

*bandit* I am aways amazed at what you can do in that tight shop. My shop work issue is I have a day job, a wife, and a needy dog. My main shop clutter problem now is I have wood everywhere waiting to dry or be used. My real shop issue is I can't seem to focus on one project at a time.


----------



## ToddJB

> *bandit* I am aways amazed at what you can do in that tight shop. My shop work issue is I have a day job, a wife, and a needy dog. My main shop clutter problem now is I have wood everywhere waiting to dry or be used. My real shop issue is I can t seem to focus on one project at a time.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Resemble all of this, and a couple kids.


----------



## brwoodruff

Very nice. Thanks for the updates. Keep'em coming.


----------



## widdle

Very nice Oldfart, looks like your rollin now…


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Wid, workin' it as best I can


----------



## JSB

I finally get to post to this thread 

I made a budget friendly SYP workbench. Simple, solid, and thick legs were my goals.


6' long, 2' wide, 34" tall 
4-3/16" thick top. Legs are 4-1/8" x 4-1/4". Through tenon from each leg through the top.
Half lap base construction.
Leg vise with 8" from top of workbench top to top of screw. Wedge on the floor to act as parallel guide. Eclipse 10" quick release cast iron vise for tail vise. Pipe clamp twin screw vise opposite leg vise for work on wider panels. 
Simple four drawer cabinet below. Two drawers on each side. 
3/4" oak dowel stock for dogs. Each dog hole has a dowel in it. Each dowel is 1" longer than the thickness of the top. Tight fit so hammer up from below to use. Hammer down to hide. Slight back cut on top of each dowel. Same dowel system in the end vise jaws. 
BLO on the workbench. Clear shellac on the cabinet. 
Material cost for the workbench itself (not including vises or cabinet) was $110.

If you are interested in more info I've already got each phase of the build detailed out with over 90 images and three videos here:

Building the workbench itself
Adding the three vises
Adding the cabinet below

Here's some images from the build.



























































































And a little dovetail action now that I have a decent place bang on a chisel.


----------



## jmartel

I must admit that I'm very disappointed that "More Chop Chop" isn't actually printed onto your bench.


----------



## JayT

Looks like you could have been posting for a while, Jay. (Nice name, BTW) We love in progress pics.

I recognize the one dovetail pic from David Barron's blog post. Very tight. Nice work on both the bench and dovetails.


----------



## JSB

jmartel hahahaha. I should have added that.


----------



## summerfi

Very impressive Jay. Nice job. Love the mass.


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice Jay, watched the videos as they came up.


----------



## theoldfart

A lot of bench, looks great Jay.


----------



## Handtooler

Yes, superb build. I also have been watching the construction come about on your site. Great place to learn. Do another Nick Ferry joint episode, please.


----------



## drcodfish

One thing which always impresses me is how you and your twin brother always dress exactly alike.


----------



## CB_Cohick

I've been watching the videos, Jay. Great job on the bench!


----------



## terryR

Great bench, I'm pretty sure I watched you on youTube a couple of days ago. Welcome!


----------



## Spelcher

Beautiful!


----------



## theoldfart

Nice "furniture" on CL, only $1,650.00


----------



## TheFridge

Saw one just like it at an antique store for 800$. I wish.


----------



## grfrazee

@theoldfart, I would hate to work at a desk like that. Terrible for one's back…


----------



## shampeon

In the show Master of None on Netflix (which is very good and funny, fwiw), the main character's apartment in New York has a built-in dining table that's clearly an old workbench. There's a scene where he and his girlfriend are eating, and his plate is in the tool well.


----------



## ToddJB

I only paid $100 for mine


----------



## theoldfart

That maybe true Todd, but I remember how much voodoo you had to put in on that thing! It's like a different bench from the first pics you posted. But I do agree that other one is way over priced.


----------



## shampeon

Love that bench, Todd.


----------



## onoitsmatt

This one's been on local CL for ten days. Trying to find a way to convince my wife "we" need it.


----------



## theoldfart

Matt it looks pretty good, I just have no feel for what a good price would be.


----------



## daddywoofdawg

I was watching a You tube video.and this guy was showing his traditional work bench and was saying that each side of the bench was for different tasks.I.e leg vise on a long side for prep,one end for cutting dovetails,the other end a tail vise for planing,and the other for assembly.


----------



## theoldfart

That's pretty much how mine is working out.


----------



## duckmilk

> Stuck in the middle with me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


Middle for me also. Kevin, the only thing missing from that shot is some bondo posing ;-P

JaySB, nice pics, will have to look at the vids when the wife isn't around


----------



## CL810

Did Kevin do a Bondo???


----------



## theoldfart

who? what?


----------



## CL810

*Busted*!!! Good job Duck


----------



## TheFridge

For shame OF… You're a wily one…


----------



## duckmilk

C'mon Kev, do your duty

Edit: Hey, this is the thread that got me addicted to LJ's. I live for bondos.


----------



## DLK

Yea Kevin. *Mos* will make you Mr February when he produces the bondo calendar.


----------



## theoldfart

but, but, but….there's no dog holes and I need to put on a finish and buy holdfasts and and ….....................


----------



## theoldfart

think I'm gonna log off now


----------



## splatman

Or grab your favorite pillow and quilt and do a Guido Pose.


----------



## DLK

Ha. O.k. we need to see a Swedish roubo-massage.


----------



## CL810

We haven't forgotten Kevin….....


----------



## Hammerthumb

Kevin's working on a set of stairs so he can get up there.


----------



## theoldfart

With hand rails, I need 'em at my age!


----------



## DLK

> With hand rails, I need em at my age!
> 
> - theoldfart


Those are called "hold fasts"


----------



## jmartel

After a little over 2 years with it, I'm seriously considering re-making my bench. Not super happy with it now that I'm using hand tools more and more since it racks a bit (first M&T joints I've made, not the best). Decided to go too outlandish and change things up when I should have kept a traditional design. So, once I get my bed finished, I think I'll be making something like Benchcrafted's shaker workbench. Likely will be using sliding doors though, so access isn't compromised by having something clamped up. Provided I can swing it, it will have benchcrafted criss-cross leg vise and probably one of shipwright's V8 tail vise on it.


----------



## Nugs

I'm just finishing up a desk project and I am going to get started on a proper workbench.

I have a 4' x 2' piece of bowling alley I will be using for the top, it's 2 1/2" laminated maple. I'll be building the base out of some poplar I got for pretty cheap. I will also be building a cabinet into the base to store all my hand tools. I have a twin screw vise to use as the end vise and will be getting a quick release vise for the front. Hopefully it works out.


----------



## shampeon

Look out for nails in the bowling alley top, and post some progress pics, Nugs.


----------



## ToddJB

> Look out for nails in the bowling alley top…
> 
> - shampeon


Yep, wouldn't want to strike any. (all day)


----------



## splatman

Yeah, you'll wanna save your spares for another project.


----------



## bkseitz

Not a big fancy imported bench or one of the really cool self-made types I've seen on this smack down. However, my MDF / Construction grade lumber with off the shelf hardware has served me well for years….not that its been stressed a lot. Made from two layers of 3/4" MDF, some 4×4s, and some 2×8.

I originally made it for my oldest son, however, he has no place to store it. The VERITAS and Record vice hardware on the shelf are for a workbench project I've never had time to get back to. Maybe next year. However, the type of woodworking I've been doing doesn't seem to demand such a workbench. The assembly table I made several years ago seem to be more practical for me.


----------



## theoldfart

Looks like a well made bench BKS and a bench that doesn't suit the work you do is a waste of time in my book.


----------



## bkseitz

@theoldfart, 


> Looks like a well made bench BKS and a bench that doesn t suit the work you do is a waste of time in my book.
> 
> - theoldfart


Yup, my only excuse if you can call it that was I was just starting out and all the advice I got was you need a workbench. I looked at all the stuff on the market and got sticker shock. Decided I could build something similar for much less and give it to my oldest for a present. Neither of us do much old timey woodworking (chisels, hand planes, etc.) so its been just ok rather than a major productivity tool. The reason my I never started the "ultimate workbench" project for myself-had other things that seemed more useful and practical after that build.

The assembly bench however has been my go-to workstation almost all the time. It turned out to fit all the hybrid woodworking I've been doing. From building trusses for a goat barn to assembling monster cabinets its been the place to get things done.


----------



## theoldfart

Gosh darn it, went to post a Bondo pic and can't 
Maybe later!


----------



## bkseitz

@theoldfart, I'm looking at posts and many of the pictures don't display. Rebooted computer, same story. Tried another computer, same issue. Think AWS (system that hosts Lumberjocks) is having a problem


----------



## Spelcher

Anyone using a twin screw end vise have any feedback they'd like to share on chop size? Thinking of making mine 24" by 7.5", but would like to hear if anyone likes theirs taller or shorter.

I was thinking of having my screw centres 4 3/4" from the ends, just because I saw that's what Lee Valley had on their demo bench, but am not set on that either if anyone has advice otherwise.

My current POS single screw end vise that I inherited is 7 3/4" tall, but the screw is centred 5" from the top and I get terrible vertical racking - I'd like to make the new one more vertically centered to reduce this, which will require me rebuilding one of the trestle tops on my base, but I think it will be worthwhile. I did notice the LV demo one was offset to the bottom too, though not as much - is this really as much of a problem as I'm imagining it would be?


----------



## DLK

Kevin, pretty tricky of you to bribe cricket so that your Bondo pose won't show.


----------



## mramseyISU

> Anyone using a twin screw end vise have any feedback they d like to share on chop size? Thinking of making mine 24" by 7.5", but would like to hear if anyone likes theirs taller or shorter.
> 
> I was thinking of having my screw centres 4 3/4" from the ends, just because I saw that s what Lee Valley had on their demo bench, but am not set on that either if anyone has advice otherwise.
> 
> My current POS single screw end vise that I inherited is 7 3/4" tall, but the screw is centred 5" from the top and I get terrible vertical racking - I d like to make the new one more vertically centered to reduce this, which will require me rebuilding one of the trestle tops on my base, but I think it will be worthwhile. I did notice the LV demo one was offset to the bottom too, though not as much - is this really as much of a problem as I m imagining it would be?
> 
> - Spelcher


I've got a twin screw veritas. I'll take a look when I get home but if you go that route the instructions tell you how big it needs to be.


----------



## theoldfart

Yup, I heard somewhere that cold beer 'll do the trick! ( Psst, don't tell Cricket


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I just went to post a Bondo with my bench, and CAN'T! Rats…


----------



## duckmilk

Very tricky of you Kev

Edit: Perhaps you can pm us all pictures ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

^ Don't believe Smitty, he uses Photobucket…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Photo-wha?

Huh?

What is this black magic of which you speak?

Well, I never…


----------



## theoldfart

hehe


----------



## donwilwol

I can't find the blue wig!


----------



## duckmilk

Gotta have the blue wig. BTW, who has that? It should be a travelling attire for those who want to post bondo pics, kinda like a travelling trophy ;-) On another note, I wonder if Bondogaposis is impressed that he has become famous on this thread.


----------



## theoldfart

Blue huh. What if there's no hair?


----------



## duckmilk

that's what the wig is for. Thanks Kev, back at ya ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

oversight, long over due. ;-(


----------



## DanKrager

Wasn't Mos the blue hair "grower"?

DanK


----------



## duckmilk

Agreed Kev.

I believe you're right Dan.


----------



## theoldfart

I'm not so sure about that. As I recall the blue haired one looked a whole lot better than Mos(sorry Mos)


----------



## duckmilk

Haha, you're right!!!


----------



## terryR




----------



## WillliamMSP

Oh. Oh my.

The bleach, it doesn't work. Can not un-see.


----------



## Mosquito

lol Yes indeed! Only one to re-create the famed "Roubo Chick" so far ;-)

And when I was packing to move out of my apartment, the wife found it and thought it was funny









Also, saw this today https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/tls/5462297922.html


----------



## WillliamMSP

> Also, saw this today https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/tls/5462297922.html
> 
> - Mosquito


Hmmmm…. I might be able to strap the top on roof rack and knock down the base and fit it inside…


----------



## ToddJB

GO GET IT BILL!!!


----------



## DLK

*Go get it!* The vises alone are worth $50.


----------



## WillliamMSP

No response from the seller, yet.


----------



## DLK

If you don't want it. I'll be in MSP in May.


----------



## DLK

> lol Yes indeed! Only one to re-create the famed "Roubo Chick" so far ;-)
> 
> - Mosquito


I thought I gave the proper pose. I just did without the blue hair.


----------



## Mosquito

> Hmmmm…. I might be able to strap the top on roof rack and knock down the base and fit it inside…
> 
> - WillliamMSP


I've got a snowmobile trailer, and/or a forester… let me know ;-)


----------



## daddywoofdawg

> Also, saw this today https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/tls/5462297922.html
> 
> - Mosquito


worth it just for the hardware.If it was closer,I would be posting a restore blog.


----------



## Mosquito

> I thought I gave the proper pose. I just did without the blue hair.
> 
> - Combo Prof


So you were a close second then  Whoever wants the blue wig next, I know where it is… ;-)


----------



## DLK

> Hmmmm…. I might be able to strap the top on roof rack and knock down the base and fit it inside…
> 
> - WillliamMSP


It is designed to knock down so you could put the whole thing on the roof. Make sure the weight is distributed to the frame.


----------



## DanKrager

Yes, that bench is worth every bit of $50 and whatever travel it takes. Worst case scenario is it is worth $50 just for the pattern! But the hardware looks restorable easily. Some of it would be a tall challenge to restore.
DanK


----------



## WillliamMSP

Seller is doing the CL dibs thing, which I've never understood. In any event, he's says I'm #2, something I'm always fond of hearing, and that he'll get back to me if #1 falls through.


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## ToddJB

Looking at that hardware on that bench it's hard for me to believe that was made in the 50s. Looks quite a bit older than that to me.


----------



## ToddJB

I observe the dibs thing when I sell on CL, as long as the buyer agrees to my price and has a reasonable time frame for picking it up (couple of days). Really the only times I have skipped over people is when the contacts appear shady, or are trying to bargain when I have others in line that are offering full price.

I've been burnt on the buying end of CL when I've made verbal agreements and plans and then the seller sold it out from under me. That makes me pretty angry.

What is your opposition to it?


----------



## WillliamMSP

Having worked in sales most of my adult life, I know that a lot of "buyers" are full of it, especially when they don't yet have any skin in the game; passing over immediate buyers, for a day or two or three, in favor of someone that's in no way a sure thing, is crazy. First, the person that you're waiting on may not come through. Second, the buyers in line aren't sitting on their hands while waiting - they're still looking to fill their need; it's not unusual for the person in line to make another purchase while the seller waits on someone else, taking themselves out of the running for the seller's item.

In short, from the seller's perspective, there's virtually no upside to not selling to the first person willing and able to buy (IOW, there with money in hand), but there's plenty of downside.


----------



## ToddJB

I'm in sales too. I guess I just try to separate my work mentality from my personal life in this regard.

And the items I'm selling on CL are usually not "flat screen TV", which are at any point in time are incredibly abundant on CL. It's unlikely that you, 2nd in line, are going to come across a sweet handmade vintage knock down woodworking bench for $50 in the time it takes the first buyer to bail.

I guess for me, the upside is that I'm being a man of my word and respecting an age old process that I feel is dying off. And it's the hope that the "do unto others" mentality will pay off - cause it's pretty crappy when you're the guy that gets something sold out from under you.


----------



## Mosquito

> I guess for me, the upside is that I m being a man of my word and respecting an age old process that I feel is dying off. And it s the hope that the "do unto others" mentality will pay off - cause it s pretty crappy when you re the guy that gets something sold out from under you.
> 
> - ToddJB


I'm with you on that one… I've driven to go get an item, only to get there and have the seller tell me "Oh, someone responded this morning and got here first".

Thanks for letting me know, dick. I drove 45 minutes to get there, by 10am like we agreed to (the earliest he said would work). Pissed me off. So I expressed my distaste for his lack of courtesy, and ended up taking the cash and bought my 2 LN planes from someone else 45 minutes the other direction from my house instead. Overall worked out better, probably, but what d-bag move


----------



## summerfi

I go with the Todd school of CL sales, for all the reasons mentioned. I've found that things usually work out for the best. For example, I recently listed a jointer on CL. A guy from another town called and offered a reduced amount, which I was willing to accept. But he said he'd have to talk to his business partner first and would get back to me in 2 days. In the meantime another guy from out of town called and also offered a reduced price, but I said the other guy was ahead of him and he should call back after 2 days. Well needless to say I never heard from either of them again. Less than a week later a third guy from 4 hours away came and bought the jointer for full price. He was so tickled to get it that he never even turned it on! I've found that less than 50% of people actually do what they say they're going to do. Shameful, but that's just the way it is.

Mos, how did you come out on the Foley stuff?


----------



## WillliamMSP

There's no violation of "do unto others," when you're upfront about the process. No one gets screwed over on an exchange along the lines of:

Potential Buyer: I'm interested in your listing - I can come over on Tuesday. 
Seller: That sounds good, but I can't hold it for you - if someone wants to come over on Monday, I'm not going to turn away their money. Why don't we touch bases Monday evening?"

The people that screwed you and Mos over? Yes, they're absolutely pulling dick moves if they're agreeing to terms and then going back on it, but that's not at all what I'm advocating.

By all means - sellers can choose to do dibs or not, but if exchanging a product for money is the goal, there's no advantage to dibs and there's no moral shortcomings to being upfront about first-come, first-serve.

Oh, and as far as a potential buyer not finding another X while waiting - you don't know that, not at all. Different people buy the same item for very different reasons. Even in this case, a buyer could be buying the bench for the hardware, could be buying it for a wholesale restore or they could be buying it as a decorative hallway table or as an outdoor gardening bench for re-potting plants. Some of these needs are more readily filled than others.


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos, how did you come out on the Foley stuff?
> 
> - summerfi


I thought we were set up to meet on Saturday so I could check it out, but never got an e-mail back when asking about a time, and haven't followed up on it yet. I'll probably just let it go, as I'm not convinced I need it enough for the space that all of it would take up at the moment. I was mostly just interested in the retoother anyway, and wasn't planning on paying what he wanted, whether that meant I got it for less or didn't get it at all, didn't really matter to me, which helped me come to the conclusion that I didn't really see a fit at the moment


----------



## WillliamMSP

^^^I didn't realize that you were genuinely interested in that gear. If it's of any consolation, I think that Beau (Beaumont's [sp?] Quality Tools), just around the corner from me, has a re-toother. I always forget that his shop is there, frankly, but I think that his price would be pretty reasonable as long as you're okay with shooting the breeze with him for a spell (he's very nice and he's very chatty).


----------



## Mosquito

Ah… good ol' Norwegian then? lol I might have to check it out some time.


----------



## onoitsmatt

That CL listing for the $50 bench is gone already. Anybody got a picture or description of what it was? Thanks!


----------



## industrialguttersma

> You just wanted to show off your nice bench didn t you?....
> 
> No, but really thats one of the nicest SYP made workbench that I have seen. Looks like you have another nice looking SYP saw bench tucked back there also?
> 
> I have built 4 work benches now and I will probably build more in the future. Here is my main bench that I made about a year ago… Its a split top design made from red oak, maple, silver maple, cherry, and basswood. Basswood was only used for bottom storage planks. The most interesting feature of my bench is probably my shop made sliding tail vise. Rather then buying a tail vise I made my own using an very large and heavy antique bar clamp. The clamp is attached to a sliding section on the top of the bench as shown in the photos. I went with square dogs so I could make my own out of wood. The makeshift tail vise actually works pretty well and I am happy with it. For the front vise I used an antique Wilton vise that I restored/repainted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Dan


Hi Dan, why am I not seeing any of your images posted? Do you have the link?


----------



## benchbuilder

Hey terrtR, 
On the leg vise, is that a wooden screw at the bottom also? Oh and a dang good looking bench, great job!!!!


----------



## WillliamMSP

> Hi Dan, why am I not seeing any of your images posted? Do you have the link?
> 
> - industrialguttersma


LJ is having issues with a server, so the LJ-hosted images (as opposed to being externally-hosted on flickr, photobucket, etc) will not be visible until it's resolved. There's an announcement thread in on the main forum page.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, benchbuilder. You must've seen the lower wheel that supports the weight of the leg? Here's a side shot of the vise while I was adjusting the chain drive (which is a dream to use!)


----------



## WillliamMSP

^^^ Very nice! I've been thinking about ways like that to avoid buying a Benchcrafted criss-cross. Does the parallel bar just float through the mortise, or do you have some other provisions to make it move smoothly? In thinking about how I might implement it, I was wondering if it would be beneficial to have rollers/bearings to keep things smooth and aligned.


----------



## terryR

Bill, long story, kinda…

My new parallel guide is much thinner than the original one, so I added UHMW spacers in the gap to provide some smoothness. Not a perfect setup, but doesn't really harm the vice. I had thought of a turned rod instead with bushings as you're thinking, but decided to KISS. The Veritas screw causes more friction and vibration than any other piece in the system, but still isn't a headache. So, I'll leave it as is for a long time.

Jim's chain drive is awesome!


----------



## drcodfish

we were talking about shop space and where the bench sits. Mine is kind of out in the open, certainly accessible form all four sides. and close to the old parlor stove, that has been my absolute greatest shop up grade.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm, somewhere, under that Walnut layer cake..









Lurks a workbench. Just beyond that block plane lies a 1×4 of Black Cherry, laying on top of a few Curly Maple pieces…


----------



## theoldfart

Dr. C's a lefty! Great bench and work space.


----------



## TheFridge

Guy held a planer for me for almost a month till our schedules meshed. If I'm selling and they convince me and stay in touch I don't mind holding it if I'm not in a hurry to sell. People have done it for me so I just reciprocate.


----------



## Spelcher

That workspace and stove looks sweet Dr. C! Making me feel all the worse trying to fit my shop into the new tiny space.


----------



## drcodfish

Good eye TOF, I'm so left handed I even chew left handed. I've had to accommodate the right handed world all my life. Fortunately I bought and actually read Christopher Schwartz' book once I decided to undertake this BHAG, and what do you know, I learned!

I feel for you Spelcher. I come from peasant stock so can't tell you how many hours I spent helping my old man replace a tranny, or a rear end in the gravel out front of the house. When we bought this place I was secretly hoping that my wife would fall in love with the house or the flowers or something, because it came with an acre backing up to woods and a creek, but the real gem was the nearly finished two bay garage/shop with a small office space. She landed on this one and I could not write the check for earnest money quick enough. Hang in there, good things come eventually.


----------



## theoldfart

Same books for me Dr C, along with a number of bench build here.


----------



## Boatman53

Thanks Terry, glad you like it. 
So I'm taking the show on the road so to speak. April 2nd and 3rd I'm going to be in Saratoga, NY at a woodworkers show, I've got a booth and will be trying to sell some chain kits and perhaps some new sharpening jigs. So far I've only sold through the the Internet. So I've got a booth, now I need a bench, but I also need to fit everything in the Subaru get it from the car to the event and not make a whole lot of trips 'cause I'll be doing it by myself. Here is what I'm working on, a box on wheels with three somewhat shallow drawers 4" high, and then the rest is just a big open area so I can put the Tormek and hand grinder in side along with vise parts.
Here is the box so far.




























There is a door with locks to secure everything.
Here is what is coming next and let me know what you think of the plan. I'm going to make two leg frames with two vises, one with a plane screw and one with the Hovarter quick release 'screw'. Each side will be complete, front leg, back leg, and stretchers. The box is on wheels (easy transport) the legs will travel on top into the building. To set up one side of the box is lifted (probably with a jack 'cause it will be loaded) and the leg assembly will be attached to the box with bed rail hooks. Then the other side is lifted and the other set of legs are attached. The whole thing is now off the wheels and stable on the floor. The vises will be functional in all aspects and I think it should be stable enough. There are going to be twice as many bed rail hooks as on a bed so I'm not worried about the weight.
Anybody see a flaw in my thinking? I'll be starting the leg frames this weekend so I thought is ask before it is too late.
If this works well others in need of a more mobile bench with tool storage might concider the idea. I know it will help when I move in the next couple of years.
Jim


----------



## DLK

I've done a lot of arts and craft shows. Sounds like this is your first show of any kind. So a few questiions/advice.

Anticipate using it for other future shows in various indoor/outdoor venues.
Will it will fit through standard door ways.?
Can you transport it: over rough parking lots, over grass, over curbs, in elevators, up stairs?
Once loaded can you lift it into your Suburu? Or will you transport it unloaded and carry in the contents in separately. I carry a hand truck. 
Will it function for you in a 10 by 10 foot space? (Thats pretty much the smallest standard indoor/outdoor space size you get.)
Don't forget to bring a chair, extra lighting, extension chords, food, sundries, etc. Where will you put them?
Cash box, sales receipt book, and bags all need a storage place too. Incidentally in NY as I recall tax must be computed separately and added to the sale. You may want an adding machine?

To me it looks very heavy. I would build it in smaller sections, but I have seen similar displays and if you have help you should do O.K.


----------



## Boatman53

Thanks Don. Not my first time working a show. I've done a number of boat shows, fifteen or so. I know what I'm in for.
1. I already have several plans for repurpose, including packing tools for a move as mentioned above.
2. It is only 26" wide so yes it will fit through a door. 
3. It has big wheels, 4" or 5" in diameter and rolls easily even in grass, did that already. Stairs would kill the deal but it is in a convention center so I imagine an elevator should be on hand.
4. It will be slid into the Subaru empty (or almost) then everything packed around it or in it. I tried to have the dimensions such that I could roll it up ramps into the back but it just wasn't a good size. The box will be used to transport everything from the car to the show.
5. The booth size is 8'x10" , and the bench will be 5" long when filly assembled. They will provide another table if I want, electric, and a couple of chairs.
6. Food and water need to be remembered, that's for sure.
7. Yes sales tax in involved. I've been collecting sale tax for 29 years so I'm set there. Most likely I'll have a show price that reflects the tax built in. Actually I don't have to collect it, I just need to pay it based on the sales.
Thanks for your input Don, all good points. The box is big and quite heavy but I believe manageable. I'll post the progress on the legs and bed hooks and how everything gets loaded.
If anyone in interested the show is put on by "The Northeastern Woodworkers Guild" and this years event is called 'Showcase' if anyone is interested in attending.
Jim


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## DanKrager

^+1. 
I wonder if you might consider a couple cheap scissor jacks secured and inset under each end to lift onto the legs and then retract almost out of sight. Extra weight, but they're cheap, and done this way would not be an extra item to carry and store.

The tax situation is tricky, so I would definitely consult with a qualified bean counter on that issue. It may be that if you don't sell over the counter and hand over the goods but take orders and ship later tax may not be involved. What does LN do at their tool shows (for those of you that bought at the show)?
DanK


----------



## Boatman53

Hi Dan, got the scissor jack already. Not going to mount it to the bench because then I would need two. I think there will be room in the box.
When I ship the kits out of state I do not need to collect sales tax, but if shipped to a NY address I do need to collect at my local rate.
Don't know what LN does. Lee Valley will have a booth there also but they have a store in NY so will be collecting accordingly.
Thanks for all the input I do appreciate it.
Jim


----------



## terryR

Best of luck to you, Jim!


----------



## Boatman53

Thanks Terry, should be fun if nothing else. Last years attendance was around 4 thousand, all woodworkers. Should be good for some heated discussions. LOL. And a few beers after the show.
Jim


----------



## DLK

> Most likely I ll have a show price that reflects the tax built in. Actually I don t have to collect it, I just need to pay it based on the sales.
> 
> Jim
> 
> - Boatman53


I don't think technically that is legal in NYS, but you probably will get away with it.

You can print price tags that show price, tax and total.

When I lived in Rochester, New, York. We sold primitive wooden folk art. I remember we made little unfinished wooden houses from Douglas fir 2 by 4s that you could paint/finish yourself. They were very popular. We first decided to sell them a $0.94 each, so that with tax they would be $1.00. (6% of 0.94 is 0.0564 which you are required to round to 0.06. There is a whole tax chart for this rounding.) This was stupid as we never sold just one. Multiplying by $0.94 when someone bought 13 was a nightmare. (I did all calculations with out electronic aide.) 
Because of the rounding you can't just do 13 * 1.00 = $13, you need to do 13*0.94*1.06=$12.95. My wife is a stickler for doing all business exactly correct according to the law. Next show they were $1.00. We did however sell enough in one year to pay for my table saw.

Moral is tax included may not be a good plan, if people may buy more then one at a time.


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## DanKrager

Don't need two jacks, Jim. Capture the top of the jack in rails that run almost the length of the middle and slide it to the other side when needed. Still can be retracted and at the ready.

DanK


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## DLK

Stupid asterisks in LJ land don't print as asterisks. They make bold. I forgot sorry. Should have wrote (not that anyone cares)

Because of the rounding you can't just do (13)(1.00 )= $13, you need to do (13)(0.94)(1.06)=$12.95.


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## Boatman53

Don, there are three versions of the kit, so not hard to print a page of the pricing, and because of what it is I doubt anyone would buy more that two at once. I've often done jobs on a boat when the owner is there and when I finish I write up the bill with sales tax. It is not uncommon that they offer cash and no sales tax, depending on whether we've worked together before or if he looks untrustworthy in some way, I might take the cash just to know I will get paid, but I still have to pay the sales tax…. I just discounted the job 8.625%.

Dan I'm all for complicating things but I think I'll keep things simple this time.
The scissor jack would also have to swivel 180° so the screw end would have to facing each end.
Jim


----------



## duckmilk

> Gosh darn it, went to post a Bondo pic and can t
> Maybe later!
> 
> - theoldfart


Ahem!!



> - terryR


----------



## RGtools

So many great benches in here. I wonder though what each maker has to say about them a few years into the use of them…mine for instance:










This is my take on the Good Fast and Cheap workbench. While every time I look at the bench I think, "I could have done better" this tool has given me a heck of a lot of service.

*Things I love:*
It's heavy, but not so heavy I can't move it about my shop. It's interesting just how often my shop needs to be reconfigured for some specific task…yet when working your bench should feel like it's bolted down. This bench accomplishes this dichotomy well.

The softwood top. I will never use a hardwood top for a workbench for a few reasons. First the leathery surface of pine, or fir is just plain grippy, and that is what you want in a bench-top. Second, it's cheap. I am a farmer, I need a tool I can hit with a machete and not cry (yes…I did this yesterday). Third, it's pretty in it's understated "weathered-the-test-of-time" sort of way. I also don't feel the least hesitation in doing this










It's adaptable, I have reconfigured an awful lot on this bench over the years. I swapped out the end vise for something beefier. I changed where and how the top connects to the base. I cut a groove in the stretcher that I was going to use to install a deadman…but ended up using that groove more on it's own for holding short work-pieces on end with my knee for tasks like layout. In short, making a bench out of lumber you get cheaply from the big box store gives you the freedom to experiment more than you otherwise might if you had spent a fortune at the big box store.

*Things I don't love:*

The top is ugly as heck….I know I said it was pretty earlier, it is. But it's ugly too just because I did not do a good job gluing the think together when I made it. If I had it to do over again I would have ripped down wider planks instead of using "straight" 2×4s for the top. I have learned to live with it…except when I drop a finish nail in the crack.

Tool well: = less bench surface to work with…and a rats nest of shavings. Do not install a tool well.

It's a bit too short: My bench is 6 feet long (or close enough to that), and I would kill for an extra foot (or even better…two).

That is my review for mine…anyone want to share theirs?


----------



## terryR

Mine sure echoes your views, Ryan! I could do a much better job on a new bench, but my pine beater is friendly to sharp edges of tools, and also affordable to build. A few gaps here and there are ugly, but the overall appearance is lovely to me, and the FIRST thing to be noticed by visitors to my shop!

I'd also love an additional foot in length. But, couldn't work without a tool well. LOL!


----------



## Mosquito

For what my bench was originally intended for it works great. I wanted something I could take apart and throw in my Subaru. I've only done it twice while moving, but it means I can move it by myself which is nice. It's small enough to fit the spaces I've needed it in so far, and that's a definite plus.




























I could have built a bigger bench in the first spare-room shop, but it would have been too big for the second and now 3rd (above pictures). The next workbench will be larger, as space allows. I wouldn't mind slightly heavier, as the current one slides around from time to time, but that's probably more likely due to being used on either hardwood or cork tile floors. (even with leather on the bottom of the bench legs)

I'd also probably change the wagon vise and just redo the wagon a little better. I love the wagon vise, and am very happy with mine, the block just has a little slop in it.

I definitely disagree with your (RGTools) statements on the tool well. I see your points, and in your situation it must be the case, but 100% disagree that no one should use one. Although it does have a tendency to catch shavings, I feel that the usefulness of it for me far out weighs the trade off in bench top space. I have removable bottom pieces for my tool well so I just remove the one on the end and sweep the shavings out with my bench brush. Others use a ramp, but the use is the same.

I'd much rather have a safe place to set tools while in use, than the extra bench top space on this one. And my workbench isn't even substantially large, it's only 51" x 11.5" for the actual bench top surface. I don't have a lot of open storage for tools, so things aren't as accessible as it might be for others. As a result I keep a good number of tools at the bench while working. Especially for things like smaller chisels, pencils, round marking knives, marking gauges, etc that can roll around and fall off the bench I would absolutely keep a tool well in my situation.

Maybe if 90% of my tools were wall hung either behind or next to the workbench, and my workbench was more around 10' x 3' would I consider no tool well. With a smaller shop space and the arrangements I have currently, not a chance.

All in all, I've actually been really pleased with my workbench, knowing the limitations inherent in its design constraints (size/weight, mainly), I don't think I would change anything about it, not even adding a deadman, as I haven't truly needed one yet.


----------



## jmartel

Not really happy with my bench. Decided to do a few things that were too outside my skill set at the time of building. Plus, building it without a bench already didn't help. Add in a few outlandish ideas rather than sticking with proven things that worked means that it just isn't what I want. So a new one will be built later this year, much nicer looking and better to use day in and day out.

Basically the fails are:

Too wide @ 30" wide.
Split top has too much of a split. Was going to do a tool well in the middle, but I didn't make the gap even and it just never got built.
Wagon vise doesn't really work well. Poor building
Linear shaft/bearing. Not enough bearing surface, could probably fix with an additional bushing, but the rest of the bench needs so much work it's not worth it. Use spacers for now.
Using not very good quality wood. Used some 4/4 red oak that was cheap. All kinds of twists and bows that I didn't bother taking out. Some gaps in glue ups.
Didn't do the mortises & tenons very well. Loose enough that it racks. 
No real thought process in drilling the top for holdfast holes. Just drilled a few areas randomly where needed.

All in all, it could be fixed and made better, or for the same amount of work I could probably just build a new one. Could probably re-use part of it for a separate bench later on, so not a total waste. Plus, it works for now, but the more hand tool work I do on it, the less happy I am.


----------



## bandit571

Added a back to my bench…..it was getting a wiggle to it..









Sooo, I'm thinking of moving that 1x shelf out, add to the front of the legs, then build a nicer shelf? Need to rip a strip of 1x to width, and use as a tool well "cover" . Would have to add a step to the backside of the well, for the cover to rest on.

There is zero wiggle to the bench, now. 1/2" plywood screwed to the back legs. Runs from the top of the foot pads up to the underside of the top/tool well. 









Still have half a sheet of the plywood leftover…..might find a few more spots for it..


----------



## onoitsmatt

Ha. JMartel just described my bench. Though I am still not completely finished with it, it is functional and hasn't developed the wiggle yet. I'm sure it will. It is a real disaster and a case study in how not to build a workbench. I built mine as a small, practice bench wanting to make my mistakes on a bench I didn't care too much about. I learned a lot and made a lot of mistakes. I'm happy to have it now though, as the greatest challenge was definitely building the bench without a bench. Particularly doing it with all hand tools.


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## Mosquito

Being my first bench, I also built my bench with out a bench (workmate)... it got the job done


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## RGtools

I am actually glad there is someone who finds more use for a tool well than I.


----------



## RGtools

Today's bench is a bit different though


----------



## TheFridge

With such a small surface on my bench (roughly 2'x4') I never have a place to set stuff. I think it's time for a flip down tool tray or something.

One day I'll finish it…


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## Hammerthumb

Fridge will never do a Bondo pose. Can you imagine a fridge on a 2'x4' bench!


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## jmartel

Maybe he's a mini-fridge.


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## DLK

No one acquires the nickname "The Fridge" by being a mini-fridge.


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## ToddJB

I think Fridge is going to have an Inspector Gadget bench.


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## ToddJB

Unless it's your last name, which I believe is the case here.


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## Hammerthumb

I also concur with Jmart on the width of the bench. Mine is 33" wide. I think 27" or 28" would be better. Benches can never be too long (within the confines of shop space).


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## DLK

> Unless it s your last name, which I believe is the case here.
> 
> - ToddJB


Is it really? Wow.


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## theoldfart

More progress









And yea I know, Bondo, Bondo, Bondo, Bondo, Bondo, Bondo, Bondo, Bondo, Bondo….......


----------



## Brit

Hey Kev, are you using that electron powered contraption or the hand-cranked option?

Recently I bought a couple of Simon James holdfasts and they came with a 19mm (3/4") pre-release Star-M F-Type auger bit for use in a power drill. I haven't tried it yet but supposedly it is meant to prevent breakout.

See the last photo here: http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Continental-Hand-Engineered-Holdfast-for-19mm-holes-Pair.html


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## theoldfart

Both Andy. Better than 95% of my bench was done with hand tools and I'm tired! BTW they are 1" bores and I'm planning on getting some Black Bear Forge holdfasts. They are the Phil Koontz style.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That picture's dimensions are way out of whack… Dividers are huge sitting next to that brace, battery drill is tiny compared to the jumbo bit it's holding. Anyone else see it? Playing tricks on me…


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## DanKrager

Nope… Don't see it at all, Smitty. Maybe you drank the beverage from the wrong bottle back there?

DanK


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## jmartel

If only there was someone named oldfart who could pose on the bench for a sense of scale…


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## dannorocks

Here's mine. Roubo through tenoned legs which are also mortised and tenoned. Only used 8' 2×6's so I had to blocks to get it up to height, should had made the top shorter! I used 20 2×6's and 1 2×10 for the tail vise and leg vise. All Southern Yellow Pine. Top is 5" thick. I installed the large quick release for the end/tail vise (York from Lee Valley) and the leg vise screw is also York purchased through Lee Valley.


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## TheFridge

> Unless it s your last name, which I believe is the case here.
> 
> - ToddJB
> 
> Is it really? Wow.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Tis true



> Fridge will never do a Bondo pose. Can you imagine a fridge on a 2×4 bench!
> 
> - Hammerthumb


I ain't skeered… Just have to finish all the bench accessories.. One day



> I think Fridge is going to have an Inspector Gadget bench.
> 
> - ToddJB


That's pretty much a dead on analogy


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## theoldfart

Well you know Smitty, big dividers and bits, small …........


----------



## theoldfart

Dano, great bench and nicely done. Where abouts in VT?


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## theoldfart

Well the boring stuff is done









Holds pretty well


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## duckmilk

Boring? On second thought, that's about where I am with the shop build. Spent part of the afternoon getting the rest of the roof on, till I ran out of screws.

Your bench and the end vise are very drool worthy. Nice job!


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## rad457

Think ya need more holes!


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## theoldfart

Thanks Duck. You know a guy shouldn't run short on screws!

Andre, your right but I don't have my holdfasts yet and there's no sense in drilling the other bores until then.


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## DLK

Don't drill holes until you need them. No need to make swiss cheese.


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## theoldfart

Agreed Don.


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## duckmilk

Kev, that saved my knees from more abuse crawling across the roof. I actually found another partial box, but hid them from myself lol


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## theoldfart

Good idea Duck, I'll have to remember the strategy.


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## bearkatwood

I am staying in a hotel tonight, on my semi-annual lumber run. I get to go to a leather store tomorrow to find some tool leather to use on my bench. I didn't like the stuff that came with the benchcrafted hardware at all so I am going to see if they have some tool leather I can get. I might get quite a bit because I have a cool addition to the bench I will have to show everyone when I get it made.
http://oregonleatherco.com/


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## duckmilk

Can't wait to see what that might be Brian. Your cool ideas always astound me.


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## duckmilk

You guys should check out Bill's (builtinbkyn) bench blog:

http://lumberjocks.com/builtinbkyn/blog/76138#comment-3014338


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## theoldfart

Can't do too much right now, temporary back problem, however bench dogs are fair game. I have a jar full of ball catches and I remember someone here making dogs using them so I gave it a try.









Cut a flat on the other side









Holds quite well.









So oak dowell up next.


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## drcodfish

ToF:

Like you I too made some of those ball catch dogs. I watched a couple U-tube vids and decided it was not beyond my grade level. I had to toss the first few 'practice' dogs but eventually I was able to get a few that both worked and met my highest work standard of 'good enough'. I used walnut dowel to contrast with the maple bench top.


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## yuridichesky

Kevin and DrC, pretty neat fixtures.

Kevin, get well soon.


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## terryR

wow those are tiny ball catches.
1/4" ?
I need a handful!


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## theoldfart

How many Terry?


----------



## Tugboater78

Really need to get to getting my bench "finished", hopefully in the next week or 2 I will get some time to fool around with it.


----------



## Spelcher

Those shop made dogs look great! That does look like a good project for a back pain break…

Getting set up today to rip the sides of my bench top so I can laminate new sides onto it. First I flattened the old top and after taking off the old paint splatters and patina I noticed the old Doug-fir top is riddled with beetle holes. I guess that's one of the risks of being limited to an unheated, unfinished shop in a cold rainy climate… It's really hard to tell if the benchtop hotel is vacant or occupied, hopefully I'll be able to see how bad it is when I rip the sides off.


----------



## drcodfish

The dogs were a very satisfying project, mostly because I went form components to finished product in just a few hours. I killed about 2 feet of dowel and two maybe 3 of the catches in the process because I was hurrying it and there was not a lot of money invested. If you mess up a 5" piece of dowel … so what, you just move on to the next 5" piece. Conversely, I sweated bullets when I bored the dog holes into the bench top. That's the last place I want to display my lack of skill.


----------



## theoldfart

^ Exactly


----------



## builtinbkyn

> Conversely, I sweated bullets when I bored the dog holes into the bench top. That s the last place I want to display my lack of skill.
> 
> - drcodfish


 Doing that now. Trying to keep the sweating to a minimum


----------



## theoldfart

just finished mine the other day









1" x 4" 









Glad to be done with that! BTW Bill, I like the beveled and beaded edge on the front vise chop.


----------



## builtinbkyn

> BTW Bill, I like the beveled and beaded edge on the front vise chop.
> 
> - theoldfart


Thanks Kevin. Had to give the bench a little character 

Finished for now. Chamfered the holes, but and will give the top a final sanding and another coat of Waterlox after drilling a few holes for the holdfasts. Not sure where they'll be needed yet.


----------



## jmartel

Hmm, something seems to have shown up on my kitchen table.










Won't be building it that soon, but maybe this summer? Was going to just design it myself, but this would certainly make it quicker/easier. Plus I wasn't sure how they did a few of the things in way of the leg vise with a plywood case. I think I have enough room for the full bench. Might have to reduce some of the overhang by 6-12".


----------



## CL810

Here you go Kevin, I fixed it for you.



> just finished mine the other day. Now for my Bondo pic. I'll be glad to be done with that!
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## theoldfart




----------



## onoitsmatt

Hope your back is feeling better soon, Kevin. You didn't hurt it climbing on your bench for that bondo pose, did you?

BTW, love the dogs.


----------



## theoldfart

Naw, I picked up a mitre box the wrong way! Turned, reached over some things(other mitre boxes) and lifted. Probably not good form.


----------



## BikerDad

Split Top Roubo, Benchcrafted Wagon Vise and Leg Vise. Gramercy Holdfasts, Veritas Holdfast, Veritas Wonder Dog & Pup, Veritas Bench Dog & Pup, home made benchdogs.

The top is hard maple, base is soft maple. "accents" are purpleheart. The shelf pieces are common pine from the borg. There is a sliding deadman, I had removed it in order to finish drilling the dogholes. Actually, the holes in question are the rear two rows, which are primarily intended for use with the holdfasts. Gap filler is two pieces, and is reversible to allow use of the filler as a stop.

Length: 108" 
Width: 29 13/16" 
Height: 35 3/4" 
Thickness: 4 1/4"

Front Slab Width: 16 1/4" 
Rear Slab Width: 11 1/4" 
Dogholes: 3/4"

Legs: 5 5/8" x 3 5/8" 
Weight: unknown. Heavy. 
Finish: none. Top has been sanded to 80 grit. I will be finishing it with leftovers as I go.


----------



## TheFridge

I see some work goin on


----------



## Spelcher

I finished with my waffling on whether to renovate my inherited Douglas-fir top or make a new mahogany one when I ripped an edge off the Doug-fir one to laminate a new front edge this evening.

















Amazingly I only nicked two of the five bolts with the table saw blade. Even more amazingly, it still cut really cleanly when I used it to dimension the new mahogany top. I really had no idea all that metal was in there…

I was too afraid I would lose track of where the bolts are and destroy some auger bits when drilling dog and holdfast holes if I kept the old top…


----------



## drcodfish

Spelcher:

Sometimes life makes decisions for you. Too bad you don't have more space, that old fir bench top would make a great assembly bench. I am constantly moving assemblies off my bench in order to use the bench for it's design purpose of working up project elements: smoothing, routing, sanding, etc. I've got a lot of space, but I guess the formula for the correct amount of space is: what you have plus … more. I've never heard anyone complain that they were having trouble because they had too much space.

I've got more than an acre of land plus a Koi pond to take care of, so I share my wood shop space with my grounds keeping equipment. I have actually considered enlarging my shop, but the Secretary of the Treasury here at Rocky Acres is pretty confident that we have higher priorities for the domestic budget, so I content myself with making the most efficient use of the available space.

On the up side, building my bench was a ton of fun and I am confident you'll have a lot of fun too.


----------



## CL810

Biker dad, that's a beautiful bench. 9' long is special.


----------



## bkseitz

@builtinbkyn, "now that's a bench!"


----------



## builtinbkyn

Thanks BK. It was fun making it. Not sure how well the top will stand up to use, but for now it works. 


> @builtinbkyn, "now that s a bench!"
> 
> - bkseitz


----------



## builtinbkyn

BikerDad nice bench build. It's large enough for a family of four  Use it well!


----------



## bkseitz

@builtinbkyn I think fun is a major aspect to woodworking these days, if not we'd all be buying Ikea stuff.

"Not sure how well the top will stand up to use, but for now it works."-I understand. the bench I built several years ago out of MDF is holding up fairly well. Granted it doesn't see much use at present, but for ~10 years old its doing o.k.


----------



## theoldfart

OK, I get points for doing this. My back is killing me!









86" long, 22 1/2" wide, 4" thick, 33" high

Putting together a more detailed post as a project


----------



## bkseitz

@theoldfart-At least 22,704 points ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks BK


----------



## TheFridge

You just went to Jedi master in my book


----------



## ToddJB

Awesome job, Kev. I like it!


----------



## duckmilk

That bench looks really nice, but you left your laundry on top of it. Oh, wait, that's you!! ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Guess I'm not very big by Texas standards!

Thanks guys.


----------



## builtinbkyn

Double post


> That bench looks really nice, but you left your laundry on top of it. Oh, wait, that s you!! ;-)
> 
> - duckmilk


----------



## builtinbkyn

LOL well he had the guts to strike a pose and the plaid flannel completed the picture 


> That bench looks really nice, but you left your laundry on top of it. Oh, wait, that s you!! ;-)
> 
> - duckmilk


----------



## DanKrager

Nice Kevin. You did good overcoming the rite of passage! Yes, the plaid was a good touch!

Isn't there another one or two about due?

DanK


----------



## duckmilk

I believe bkyn Bill should be getting his photo shoot prepared


----------



## CL810

Nice Bondo Kevin!


----------



## Spelcher

Nice looking bench and excellent Bondo!


----------



## Hammerthumb

I don't see the set of stairs for you to get up there Kevin. What did you do? Levitate?


----------



## rad457

Great Pose and a great Bench, may she meet yours and future generations needs well! and a symmetrical hole pattern on the Deadman! what a fantastic idea, wish I had thought of that! LOL!


----------



## theoldfart

Paul, had my wife moved the ladder!

Thanks for the compliments.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Ha!^ Knew it. I know what a bad back does for your ability to climb.

Great bench and nice Bondo, Kevin.


----------



## shampeon

Kevin! Yes!


----------



## builtinbkyn

I forgot to wear my plaid flannel for the shoot, so this will have to do 












> I believe bkyn Bill should be getting his photo shoot prepared
> 
> - duckmilk


----------



## theoldfart

I would kill for that many windows in my shop Bill. Do folks in Brooklyn wear plaid?

Thanks Ian, your bench was among my inspirations.


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice on the Bondos!


----------



## builtinbkyn

LOL Kevin I hope you know I was just ribbing you.

The windows sold the place. I get north light as well so no sun blasting thru. Can't figure out why the prior tenant hung those curtains. Actually, I can't figure out why I haven't taken them down yet :O



> I would kill for that many windows in my shop Bill. Do folks in Brooklyn wear plaid?
> 
> Thanks Ian, your bench was among my inspirations.
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## ssnvet

Spelcher…

Almost all of the laminated hardwood bench tops sold through industrial supply companies (and that's a LOT of tops) are put together with threaded rod like that. It actually makes for a very strong top.

If you sand up the other side clean and wipe it with mineral spirits, you'll likely be able to see the plugs that are typically put in the outer strip to cover the rod ends.

These holes are machine cut on a multi spindle boring machine and should be very consistent in their spacing, so just pencil line the top and you shouldn't have any troubles coming up with a dog hole spacing that works.

Hope you didn't trash your TS blade.

Ferrous metal meets carbide can get pretty "exciting"


----------



## yuridichesky

Kevin, great Bondo shot!


----------



## ToddJB

Dang, that bench is awesome. Those windows, though-- baller status. Nice pic, Bill.


----------



## terryR

Sweet benches and overdue poses lately!


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks Maniac Matt. I thought my friend that I inherited the bench from had laminated the top himself, though now you're making me rethink that - though the bottom was very rough and all the 2×4s had slightly different thicknesses; it clearly hadn't been passed through a thicknesser.
The outside mahogany laminations definitely didn't have any plugs in them.

It was crazy, I can see where the TS blade polished two bolt ends, but the only visible damage was a very mild rounding-over of a single tooth… I milled a whole bunch of mahogany boards for Plan B of the top with the same blade with no noticeable increase in milling marks.

The old Doug-fir top has now been relegated to a nice assembly bench.


----------



## duckmilk

Very cool pic Bill and +1 on the windows. Sorry you're so shy 

Jason, glad there was no harm done


----------



## DLK

Very nice bondos. Mos I see another calendar in the making.

Also I am very jealous of those windows.


----------



## duckmilk

Dang, I want to be in the calendar, but I don't even have the shop finished  
I'm not camera shy like some here. Not as much of a ham as a redheaded one that I know ;-)


----------



## builtinbkyn

OK, ok. When I get to the shop tomorrow, I'll take a proper pic. Thought I'd just show the correct shop attire when sawing wood 

The windows are great. The view? Not so much. Just a pile of old, grey pallets and a brick wall LOL



> Very cool pic Bill and +1 on the windows. Sorry you re so shy
> 
> Jason, glad there was no harm done
> 
> - duckmilk


----------



## theoldfart

Bill, need my shirt?


----------



## builtinbkyn

:-0 I was laughing so hard, my wife came upstairs to ask what was so funny. Touche'.


> Bill, need my shirt?
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## drcodfish

Windows! What a concept.


----------



## BikerDad

Not Bondo, Pondero


----------



## widdle

some great benches…

I don't know whats sexier? oldfart or his bench….call me…


----------



## theoldfart

^ thinking about it. Wife? Widdle? Wife? Widdle? Hmmmmm

BDad, you look like a Rodin statue. Great pic and great bench.


----------



## chrisstef

Ohh man, I go away for a few days and come back to 3 bondo poses! A buddah, a fart in flannel and a cardigan. Maybe its cashmere. Maybe its both. Nice sweater Brooklyn lol. I should stepped up my attire.


----------



## CB_Cohick

> ... I should stepped up my attire.
> 
> - chrisstef


Thong, pasties, fire-helmet, black socks. That'll do.


----------



## Hammerthumb

> ... I should stepped up my attire.
> 
> - chrisstef
> 
> Thong, pasties, fire-helmet, black socks. That ll do.
> 
> - CB_Cohick


Don't forget the Crocs


----------



## chrisstef

Ill send ya the glamour shot in the mail CB. PM your address.


----------



## CB_Cohick

> Ill send ya the glamour shot in the mail CB. PM your address.
> 
> - chrisstef


Tony already sent them.


----------



## duckmilk

Nice one BD. See, this can be fun


----------



## Spelcher

I was thinking of putting an endcap on the face vise end like this (with a full length tenon in the endgrain of the top and, not shown, two bolts in the middle of the endcap. The orientation of the DTs wouldn't allow the endcap to be removed as the long board at the back of the tool well will be glued to the rest of the top at the end-vise side (far end). Should end caps be removable for any reason? 









If I use this design, the other endcap which will function as the end-jaw will be removable - I can see needing to replace that end in the future at some point…


----------



## Boatman53

Jason, the way you have the dovetails arraigned I don't think you can easily take that end cap off. I wouldn't worry about removing it in the future any damage will just be part of its character.

I made some progress on my bench for the show.

Got some paint on the box portion.


















Also did some work on the leg frames and vises.














































Tomorrow I'll be finishing the shaping of both chops and getting some Watco oil on everything. The deadline is fast approaching.
Jim


----------



## Brit

You can do it Jim. I'm looking forward to seeing this one.


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks Jim, I don't know why I was feeling the endcaps should be removable - I think i'll stick with the plan then.

Had some fun tonight. Committed to new material for the top. Had to clean a whole lot of dirt and stones out my dumpster find but there was gold underneath.

In flattening after glue-up I've come to find that mahogany is a whole lot more slippery than Douglas-fir. Nice and heavy though…


----------



## woodcox

Beautiful ^


----------



## terryR

Joinery looks great, Jim.

Mahogany in the dumpster? The horror!
looking good, Jason!


----------



## johnstoneb

That mahogany is going to make for a beautiful bench.


----------



## drcodfish

Jason;

I have a soft spot for darker woods so rely appreciate the look of your bench top. Tell me it wasn't a ton of fun skating that big ole plane across the surface. When I built my bench I got done before I was finished; I just wanted to keep on planning.


----------



## Spelcher

Dr C, I refuse to tell you it wasn't a lot of fun planing the top 

I do mean it when I say it's slippery though… Even though it weighs a ton, with fairly light passes with the jointer plane I managed to make it fly off the bench underneath and onto the concrete floor!








I think I'll have to get creative with the finish when it's done to give it a bit more grip for workpieces.

It wasn't exactly a dumpster find, but awfully close; left outdoors in the rain at the ReStore with a bunch of vacant powderpost beetle holes for $1.50/bf…


----------



## JayT

> I think I ll have to get creative with the finish when it s done to give it a bit more grip for workpieces.
> 
> - Spelcher


You could try hitting the top with a toothing plane. Some people do that to add some texture and grip to the top.


----------



## Spelcher

I have heard about the toothing plane trick. That might have to be an option but I imagine it would hard to get the emotional strength to do once the top is all smooth and pretty….


----------



## JayT

Here's a video where Patrick Edwards talks about his bench and shows the surface and toothing it. The whole video is good, but if you just want to see him talking about the top, that starts at the 2:25 mark.



> I imagine it would hard to get the emotional strength to do once the top is all smooth and pretty….
> 
> - Spelcher


So follow the advice of others. Finish the bench, take some nice pics showing how pretty it is and then grab a hammer and dent the top a few times. After that, you won't be afraid to work on it.

It'll be a lot easier to tooth the top once it has a few scars and dings.


----------



## drcodfish

I have seen that vid before (when I was building my bench). It gave me heart when he mentioned Frank Klause and his take on a smooth bench surface. Good to know that giants in the field could hold opposing views and that the earth would not explode. Must be the oil in the wood.


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks JayT - that's an awesome video, I've seen pictures of that bench but hadn't seen the video before, nice to have a tour of that bench and see the toothing plane in use on a top.

I think it's a bit of the oil in the wood that makes it slippery, but also its hardness too. There's no give in it at all….


----------



## BikerDad

My old workbench, pics taken last night. This bench is about to embark upon it's third rebuilding. The bench, about 16 years old now, is from Sam Allen's book, Making Workbenches

The base is construction lumber (Douglas Fir), held together with dowels and threaded rod. The top is branded Jorgensen, 72" x 25" x 1.5" hard maple top. In it's first iteration, the top was a 38" wide by 84" long solid core door with a hardboard top added. That top met it's end when I moved out of my house. The top had a serious bend/sag on one end, packed sawdust being insufficiently stiff to withstand a 175lb man standing on the unsupported end.

The vise is a Record QR.



















The gray beast, an Handy B.O.B. Motorcycle Lift, behind the bench is the impetus for the pending rebuild. I am going to replace the short stretchers with longer ones, and raise all the lower stretchers, in order to allow the bench to straddle the B.O.B. I'll probably add a tool tray to take up the new "real estate" at the back of the bench top.

The bench is now disassembled, and the rebuild is underway.


----------



## Boatman53

The deadline for the show is approaching and I'm almost finished with the bench, another coat of Watco and then assemble all the vise and chain hardware.





































The leg frames will ride on top to and from the venue and it is very very stable. Lifting one end with a scissor jack worked great for installing the legs.

Jim


----------



## DLK

Looking good.


----------



## terryR

Very clever, Jim. Joinery looks fine.


----------



## Boatman53

Thanks Don and Terry. I can see this being very useful beyond taking to shows. I don't work on houses but if one had an extended job it would be worth setting up and with the door on the front one can lock up their tools at the end of the day.
Jim


----------



## ssnvet

Boatman….

High marks for coming up with something clever and new.

Very innovative way to make something that is both transportable and solid.


----------



## Hammerthumb

> Here s a video where Patrick Edwards talks about his bench and shows the surface and toothing it. The whole video is good, but if you just want to see him talking about the top, that starts at the 2:25 mark.
> 
> I imagine it would hard to get the emotional strength to do once the top is all smooth and pretty….
> 
> - Spelcher
> 
> So follow the advice of others. Finish the bench, take some nice pics showing how pretty it is and then grab a hammer and dent the top a few times. After that, you won t be afraid to work on it.
> 
> It ll be a lot easier to tooth the top once it has a few scars and dings.
> 
> - JayT


Here is a great picture of Patrick's bench I took on a little visit. Looks like it had been scrubbed recently.


----------



## bearkatwood

I finished my bench if you didn't know by now. Here is the video of it. 




View on YouTube


----------



## Hammerthumb

That's a really cool looking bench Brian. Bondo pose?


----------



## theoldfart

Seems like a reasonable request.


----------



## builtinbkyn

Brian may even have a plaid flannel shirt 


> Seems like a reasonable request.
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## NinjaAssassin

So…I got to this point tonight…


----------



## DanKrager

Hello Pianist. Welcome to LumberJocks. While this thread is dedicated to workbenches, there is a congenial atmosphere here…and a quilting frame is a workbench of sorts, isn't it?

Perhaps you might consider a link to my website showing a tilting quilting frame I built for a customer. Scroll down a bit when you get there. There are several features that we can talk about privately, so pm me.

DanK


----------



## Boatman53

Although the pianist appeared to post on just a random thread he found the right guy pretty quickly.
Looks good Billy. Any vises planned?
Jim


----------



## theoldfart

Jim, I can see a big wood screw on the top to the left. I think he needs some stuff from you to complete the installation. BTW you all set for Saratoga ?


----------



## kiefer

I just realized that I forgot to post my new leg vise here when I posted it as a project a little while ago so here it is along with a video that shows how simple ,economical and adaptable the design is .
Here is the video link .




Here is a couple of pictures before I installed the vise on my bench and in the video you can see how it operates 

















Klaus


----------



## terryR

Bench looks stout, Billy. And beautiful IMO.

Very slick, Klaus. Mine has a bit of side to side wobble that annoys me at times when spinning the handle in or out. Putting it on a rail looks like a good solution!


----------



## Boatman53

You're right Kevin, but on the little picture on my iPad I thought it was a big Billy mallet. More what prompted my question was the lack of holes in the legs, I do that long before I get to the assembly stage.
Am I ready for the show? Not yet but I think I will be. The next ten days is very action packed. The Chitty Chitty Bang Bang car I built is going to be at the Jacob Javits center for the car show starting next weekend. On Wednesday the 30th I have to pack the car for the show and robotics competition, my son is on the team and I've been a mentor for the last two years. I'm going to miss the last day of competition for the show. Makes me sad dut I'd signed up for the show a month before the competition date was set. I'll be demonstrating the chain kits for the leg vise and the new sharpening jig. I don't get out much so it should be fun however it turns out.
Jim


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Thanks everyone 

Yeah Jim, that's the big wood screw for the leg vise on the left. I probably should have cut/bored the holes for that before assembling it but I wasn't ready for that at the time. I'm sure there was a reason but I don't remember it now. I'll just lay the bench on it's side and go at it like that. Shouldn't be too much more work…I hope.


----------



## putty

Samurai guy has a new video out on his workbench…Impressive!!!

Samurai Bench


----------



## BikerDad

I've been working on the rebuild of my old bench. Closing in on the finish line. This is looking at it from the back. I haven't decided yet exactly how I'm going to extend the benchtop to cover the large open area.










And this pic is demonstrating the reason for the rebuild. The bench can now be parked using the same floor space as my motorcycle lift.


----------



## dbray45

There is something that I did on my bench and I see it on a lot of your nice benches - the location of the side vise about 6-8" in from the left end of the bench.

You may want to rethink this -

If you want to saw anything and clamp it down, it is either going to be 12" long or you are cutting it horizontally across the top. If your vise is close to the left edge, this problem is eliminated.

Just a thought.


----------



## donwilwol

> There is something that I did on my bench and I see it on a lot of your nice benches - the location of the side vise about 6-8" in from the left end of the bench.
> 
> You may want to rethink this -
> 
> If you want to saw anything and clamp it down, it is either going to be 12" long or you are cutting it horizontally across the top. If your vise is close to the left edge, this problem is eliminated.
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> - dbray45


I wound up making a wider face plate to get it to the edge, so I agree with this.


----------



## kiefer

David
Here is my solution I have a twin screw end vise that also operates the tail vise and a leg vise on the left that covers just about all the situations .


















Klaus


----------



## theoldfart

This may works well for me


----------



## DanKrager

BikerDad, I've found that two movable slabs, in my case, on the assembly bench, are very desirable. Normally the torsion boxes are close together to make a continuous surface. Recently I built a large platform that made it desirable to separate the top to enlarge the support surface. The tricky part is to hold the tops in such a way that clamps don't break the surface. My assembly boxes were built with a clamping lip around the top edge and another around the bottom edge for that purpose.

DanK


----------



## Spelcher

There's a lot of beautiful work going on here. Kiefer, that's a really interesting looking bench and leg vise mechanism…

A mistake in the design of my bench base means I get to build an entire new one from scratch - which means I've opened up the potential for a leg vise.

This was what I was about to go ahead with with the old base:









But the new base won't be trestle style and the legs will be co-planer with the top. An option I'm trying to rule out is to ditch the twin screw end vise and change the arrangement to a leg vise on the front left side, and moving the Record quick-release vise to the end vise position with a bigger chop.

A lot of people here are crazy about leg vises - I'd love to hear some convincing arguments for ditching the arrangement in the picture above for leg vise/Record end vise… They sure do look sexy.


----------



## Handtooler

Bob Lang's 21 Century split top bench utilizes the twin screw vise on the front left side position and the Record style vise on the end with a large chop. I find this arrangement quite operable But, I'd certainly like to have a leg vise on the opposite side, since I don't position the bench against the wall and work from both sides.


----------



## BikerDad

I can't compare the leg vise on my new Split Top Roubo with a twin screw vise, as I've never had the latter. But I can compare it to the Record QR vise on my old bench, and save for the lack of a dog, it is much nicer to user. Holds like a pit bull on a pork chop (and that's without the leather facing), spins in and out as smoothly as a Russian ballerina, and is much "deeper", i.e. the distance between the top plane of the bench and the screw. One downside to the leg vise (mine is a Benchcrafted) is the handle and knob project out farther from the bench than my Record. While a twin screw is likely to suffer from this as well, it won't be as severe as it is with mine. Nor, I suspect, is it as severe with the new Benchcrafted that uses "spoked" knobs. Unfortunately for me, when the vise is fully closed, the knob falls right at kneecap level… DAHMIKT. I know I'll get used to it being there and avoid it automatically, but until then I'm on the alert to keep from kneecapping myself on my bench. (Note, I do have the wheel/screw on my leg vise a little lower than would be optimal for me.)


----------



## kiefer

Jason
That looks real good and I would add the tail vise which will give you more clamping possibility's and the leg vise would also be nice and you could do that at minimal cost . I have a LJ working on a Sketch up drawing of the leg vise and if you are interested I will send you the link ,let me know .

Klaus


----------



## splatman

> Unfortunately for me, when the vise is fully closed, the knob falls right at kneecap level… DAHMIKT. I know I ll get used to it being there and avoid it automatically, but until then I m on the alert to keep from kneecapping myself on my bench. (Note, I do have the wheel/screw on my leg vise a little lower than would be optimal for me.)
> 
> - BikerDad


 Put a tennis ball over the knob.


----------



## drcodfish

Jason:

I bit my tongue when you went with the trestle design. I read a ton and then I read a whole lot more before I built my bench and Chris Schwartz convinced me that co-planer legs was the way to go. Any set up will work and I would never say that the trestle design is the work of the devil, but for me I am happy I went the way I did. Note to all: I did not have the skill, experience, or nerve to undertake the roubo style sliding dove tail and tenon joints. Hat's off to all who have accomplished that feat. For me, perhaps in the next lifetime. I used hardware to bolt the legs to the top.

As for vises; For me, as a lefty the end vise (a very old Rogers Wilcox which I brought back from the dead) is mounted on the left. and I use the hello out of it. I salvaged hardware from a very simple and also very old leg vise and put it down at the other end of the bench. When I posted photos I think it was only ToF who noticed that me bench was set up ack basswards. Truth be told I have used the leg vice almost not at all.

But that may be about to change. Up to this point I have been making mostly small projects, desk top pen stands and boxes. But I have just begun a furniture project, a Mission style desk. Lots of long pieces and scads of stiles, spindles and M&T joints. That old leg vise may become my best friend in the next few months.


----------



## woodcox

> Samurai guy has a new video out on his workbench…Impressive!!!
> 
> - putty


His "sexy" tool box video is comedy. Hold out for the ending. Worth it.

http://samuraicarpenter.com/my-sexy-tool-box/


----------



## Spelcher

Yep, decided then - leg vise it is! I think I'll keep the Veritas Twin Screw on the end, I imagine that wracking with the twin screw as an end vise won't be as bad as with a single screw vise with a row of dog holes placed close to the front edge. The record will have to find a new home…

Now I just have to decide on the guts of the leg vise… I don't think I can afford the time to make or the money to buy a wood screw, so I'm weighing between Klaus' design, or a simple metal screw with a traditional parallel guide and pin, or Benchcrafted (Classic or Glide), or Hovarter. Richard Macguire's pinless leg vise design looks interesting too. Tough choice.

-BikerDad, I had wondered about the knee banging - I guess one advantage of the Record is all the legroom under the vise… But it does look like the advantages of the clamping space with a leg vise outweigh the drawbacks…

-Thanks Klaus, that would be great if you could post the sketchup of your design, it looks wonderful! My only concern with that design is my shop is super cold and damp in the winter and very hot in the summer and anything made of wood moves a lot - I would worry a bit about the triangular frame twisting in my unstable work environment…

-Dr C, it sucks to have to start the base from scratch again, but I know that having the chance now to make the legs co-planer will save me a bunch of future regret… This project evolved bit-by-bit from making a couple minor tweaks to an inherited bench to a complete build. I had no idea what I was getting myself into.

I'd be interested to hear anyone's experience with benefits/drawbacks to any particular leg vise style/hardware. I am attracted to the Benchcrafted kits based on the action in their videos- they look about as quick as a quick release. They're pricey, but at least they are offered in Canada by Lee Valley, so shipping and our weak dollar isn't an issue with them.


----------



## theoldfart

Jason, I have a Lake Erie Tool-works screw and couldn't be happier. Give them a look.

I get 1" of travel for two turns of the handle vs 4 to 5 turns on typical metal screws.

Also the two production kits for leg vise wracking are the BenchCrafted crisscross and Jim's (Boatman53) chain vise


----------



## Spelcher

Kevin, your bench is a big inspiration for what I want to do, and your leg vise setup really looks ideal. The Lake Erie screws are available in Canada at Lee Valley too, but are a bit out of my price range for now. I would definitely consider upgrading to one down the road though… How do you like the crisscross guides on yours?


----------



## kiefer

Jason
I am not concerned about the environment that you have to put up with as you could make the A frame from steel tubing and the overall cost for this vise is far less then anything that you can buy and you could go to a faster thread ACME rod like a 4 TPI and you would also have the pleasure and pride to have built it yourself .

Klaus


----------



## theoldfart

The criss cross works really well, just take time with the installation. The two pins holding the arms need fairly precise placement. Take a looks at CL8N blog. SHB CL810 !


----------



## shampeon

I'll second Kevin's recommendation on the criss-cross. Works great. I used the mortised brackets, so I didn't have to drill the holes for the pins.

But if I had, I would have used a drill press and a short dowel the same size as the drill bit. Drill into a temporary table that's locked down. Drill partway through on one side. Insert the dowel into the hole you drilled in the table, then turn the piece over. The dowel will fit into the hole you drilled in the piece, and the piece will be exactly centered. Now drill the rest of the hole for the pin.

Luthiers use this method for drilling perfectly aligned through holes for string-through electric guitar bodies like Telecasters.


----------



## jmartel

Damn. Hadn't thought of that, shamp. Good tip on the through-drilling.


----------



## theoldfart

Ian, why the hell didn't you tell me that before! :/). Great idea.


----------



## CL810

Shamp, that is a great tip, one I'm gonna remember.


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks for the input guys, pretty sure I'm going to order a benchcrafted kit this weekend. 
I love Klaus' design, but I'm ramping into our busy work season and shop time will be at a premium, and I can picture myself spending a lot of time finding parts and troubleshooting that design…

I don't know why it seems so stressful choosing between the classic and the glide C. I thing the Classic looks nicer, offers a bit more leg room and is less expensive, but the position of the wheel on the Glide looks like you wouldn't need to bend over as much to adjust…


----------



## Spelcher

That is a great idea for drilling Shampeon!


----------



## DLK

Yes good tip.


----------



## terryR

Jim's chain drive is a nice set-up. Very affordable, too, around $150. Cleaning the chain from sawdust occasionally keeps it working smoothly. Only drawback was needing to drill through my lower stretcher due to bench's layout.










The c-clamps were temp while adjusting the chain.
Screw is Veritas.


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks Terry, that is a great picture showing the mechanism. The other strong consideration was Jim's chain drive - it does look very slick.
I think I'm going to order the BC Classic screw with the Crisscross this weekend - I figure if I really want a handwheel later on, I can always use Klaus' awesome idea of a barbell plate…

I'm getting close to finalizing the plans for my new base - It's got me thinking about another design aspect I hadn't considered: end overhang.

I notice quite a few benches have a lot of overhang at either end. My old bench was quite easy to tip with pressure on the overhang, but I imagine the weight of the new one will make that a non-issue.

Benefits and drawbacks to more overhang I've thought of so far:

+More leg room when working at the left end past the leg vise (the right side, in my case, has the big twin-screw chop which would be in the way anyway)
+Required for certain vise installations (which isn't an issue in my case - I can bore holes through the legs for the twin-screw)

-More distance from leg vise to end of bench when crosscutting at the left end of the bench
-Less room for a cabinet in the bench (which I plan to install)
-Easier to rock/tip the bench with a lot of downward force at the ends

Can anyone think of any other considerations?

Here's what I have so far - arbitrarily chose 6 1/2" overhang on either side, minus the end vise, which gives me just over 3' 8" between the legs for a cabinet:


----------



## theoldfart

You can clamp a sizable cabinet frame on the end with a longer overhang. I can jump up and down on my bench ends and the bench will not budge thanks to the thick top and structure. I don't like the idea for a cabinet under the bench for myself. Right now it's convenient to put the tools currently in use down there and grab them as needed.


----------



## drcodfish

Jason. I had that very question when building my bench. I sent a note to Chris Schwarz asking his thoughts. He suggested longer overhang as it made working on case works easier at times (as ToF suggests above). I don't see me making a lot of furniture so it didn't sway me. A cabinet under the bench is in the works for me some where down the way.

I have 16" on the vise end (to accommodate the vise) and 10" on the other end.


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks guys, I forgot I had read about that option, clamping a cabinet frame is a good argument - back to the drawing board then… It might be worth bringing the overhang to 15" or so on the end-vise end for that reason, and shifting the base to the left so there is only 4" of overhang on the leg vise side.

I don't love the idea of having a cabinet under my bench, but space in my new shop will be very limited, so I need all the storage space I can get. I'm thinking something along the lines of Smitty's, but a simpler and uglier design, at least to start with…


----------



## terryR

Sure wish I had thought and asked questions BEFORE building my bench. It's strong as a bull, but not so user-friendly because of the massive front apron!

Yesterday, I finally used a few Northern ball-catches to assemble a few dogs from cherry dowels I made years ago. I had to round the edges on the ball catch flange to fit in my holes, then enlarged the holes a bit with a round rasp to further improve the fit. At least, the Veritas beast clamp is now easier to remove from the benchtop!










Still, the apron has a say…the dogs can only be pushed above the surface by kneeling down and reaching under the 13" apron.

Seriously considering a new bench! carry on


----------



## drcodfish

I am a Koi keeper as well as a wood working hobbyist, There is a saying in the world of Koi enthusiasts which can be applied to work benches:

Your second pond is always much better than your first. The third pond is near perfection.

building a work bench is MUCH less work than building ponds (Don't ask me how I know this)


----------



## Sylvain

For boxes and cabinet, you can have any overhang you need with this trick:


----------



## Sylvain

About overhang for tail vise, you can plan ahead :
see Paul Sellers bench legs at the bottom of this page .


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## Spelcher

Nice wooden dogs Terry, once the bench is operable I'd love to build some like that.
Good point on the cabinet clamping trick Sylvain - that way it could be clamped on the other side of the leg vise with a sliding deadman or bar clamp across the top.

I'm planning my top end stretchers to be big so that I can cut or bore recesses in them for the end vise (thinking Veritas Twin Screw). I've started thinking about wagon vises yesterday, but that would add too much time onto the build at this point as I've already laminated the central piece of the top. I'll try design the bench so that it can be an option in the future - Benchcrafted recommends 18.5" overhang for their wagon vise, but I'm thinking because it has such a small footprint across the width of the bench and vertically as well, a small recess for it could be cut into the top of the leg and top end stretcher to accommodate it with less overhang.


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## theoldfart

Terry, I countersink the ball catch with a 5/16" then finish the bore with a 1/4". Did a couple more today.


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## drcodfish

Terry, my strategy is to run a dado stack across the face of the dowel before I set the catches, but this requires a certain amount of finesse (something I am not known for).


----------



## Spelcher

Ordered a BC Classic leg vise today and am super excited about it!

I'm starting to second-guess the Veritas Twin-Screw as my end vise though - looking at the Sketchup model, the 3.5" top means quite a big gap between the screws and the top of the bench. (Dog holes not drawn in yet) 








Visually it looks like it would rack vertically like crazy - I know my old end vise did; I couldn't even use my plywood saw sharpening vise in it without shimming the bottom. 
Does anyone with a thick top and a twin-screw end-vise like their current setup for face planing etc., or do you pine for a wagon or stiffer metal QR face vise in that position?


----------



## terryR

Aah, forgot the countersink trick. doh! Luckily, I have a few extra catches Thanks to Buddies who know more than I.

And, countersink can be round or square!


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## theoldfart

Like this









All dogged


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## terryR

Looks good, Kevin.

Mine are ugly, but work great! Some Leopard wood shavings for your early morning pleasure…










...no longer cringing over planing the brass dog I usually use!


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## kiefer

Jason 
Take a look at this solution that I posted some time ago which you could incorporate by placing it a bit lower.








http://lumberjocks.com/projects/98847

Klaus


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## theoldfart

Terry, I'd still cringe! Love the Leopard though.


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## Iguana

Jason -

You could always route recesses into the underside of the top to accommodate the screws and other bits, thereby setting them closer to the top surface.


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## Spelcher

The wooden dogs with ball catches are brilliant - I can't wait to make some of them. Such great inspiration here…
That leopard wood is beautiful!

Thanks Klaus and Mark, those are both great ideas - I've decided though to forego the twin screw and put my Record QR on the end vise position like Kevin, Dr Codfish and others have done…

Getting ready to prep the wood for the back half of the top tomorrow and realized another flaw in my design - this time with the endcap attachment… I want to have a toolwell, but liked the idea of having it span only half the top.









I had planned to make joint number 1 a long groove running across to the back of the top, with the piece at the front of the bench dovetailed, and bolts coming in from the side, reamed out at the middle and back of the endcap to allow for movement.

I planned to make joint number 2 a dovetail as it's too small to put in a bolt with hole reamed out enough to allow for movement, but now I'm thinking there might be a problem with joint 2 staying put and the other end (joint 1) moving, causing the toolwell to become tapered. I wanted to have a pine board resting on cleats for the bottom of the toolwell to make it easily removable.

Any suggestions on a better way to fasten joint number 2 to allow for movement, or is it best to just scrap the half width toolwell and make it run the length of the top so that movement is symmetrical? Wood moves a lot in my shop with moisture and temperature changes…

Here's the dovetails I was thinking of in the front:









Maybe it would be safest to do this, though I think I prefer the idea of having a toolwell at one side over having it in the centre:


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## DLK

> Still, the apron has a say…the dogs can only be pushed above the surface by kneeling down and reaching under the 13" apron.
> 
> Seriously considering a new bench! carry on
> 
> - terryR


I guess you plan to push the dog deep into the dog hole when not in use. 

Drill a hole through the flat face of the dog large enough to accept a small allen wrench.
Make a tool handle to accept the long end of the allen wrench. (Maybe a tee-handle.)
You may have to cut back the short end of the allen wrench so that it will fit into the open side of the dog hole and can engage the hole that was drilled into the dog when the dog is deep in the hole. (Coat hanger wire may be strong enough instead of allen wrench.)

Now you can raise the dogs with this new tool instead of reaching around under the apron.

Or make really long dogs. Long enough that when pushed in their ends are way below the front skirt.


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## Buckethead

> a couple of saw horses and a sheet of mdf is all you need unless your just building workbenches for a living and or in some kind of workbench contest, does any of these benches ever make a project?
> 
> - vonhagen


BRO DO YOU EVEN WORKBENCH SMACKDOWN SMDH


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## BulldogLouisiana

Hello Lumberjocks!

I'm a novice woodworker that is about to embark upon my first workbench build. I'm going with a split top Roubo, using Benchcrafted plans. I've already gotten my BC leg and wagon vise hardware. I'll have some assistance from a friend that has already built a very nice Roubo. As I'm new, I am thinking about getting some soft maple for the top. It will cost me a good bit, but I can't do SYP. I know it's great material, but I just don't like it very much.

I was originally going to go with some big ash slabs, but my friend said that he wouldnt use it for a bench. We don't get big slabs of ash very easily in Louisiana apparently.










I was going to use some walnut for the leg chop and end cap, but my first project i make is going to be an arts and crafts tool cabinet by the Schwarz.










I have a lot of spalted sycamore and part of me thinks that maybe incorporating it and some cherry in the workbench would be nice. I'm going to give Fridge one of these slabs, but I do have access to some more.










Is choosing the wood to use the hardest part? I love lysdexic's bench, and it gave me the idea of incorporating cherry legs into the bench. I also liked the beefier legs he made. I'd have to buy the cherry though, and that plus the soft maple for the top would be hard to justify when I have other options available.

I could use some ash for the legs, as I have quite a few smaller slabs as well.










What do you guys think? I must admit, I want a good looking bench.


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## Buckethead

My opinion about good looking benches: Yes. Looks matter. (I find antique roubo benches to be among the best looking,

Wood Specie: a bench looks awesome because of cool joinery. Most all wood types look good to my eye. Yes, even southern yellow pine. I lucked into finding maple and walnut at a sub $5 BF price, which is good in my area for those non locally sourced species. I probably should have used it elswhere, and built my bench from pine. 

Still, I've got no ragrets.


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## CL810

Welcome Bulldog! Looking forward to following your build. You'll be very happy with the maple.


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## BulldogLouisiana

> Welcome Bulldog! Looking forward to following your build. You ll be very happy with the maple.
> 
> - CL810


Wow CL810, I just saw your bench linked off of David Barron's blog. Beautiful!


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## Iguana

> BRO DO YOU EVEN WORKBENCH SMACKDOWN SMDH
> 
> - Buckethead


Bucket! You're getting worked up over some wood again!


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## Iguana

Jason,

I think you'd find that first tool well arrangement lead to issues. With those type of end caps, the dovetail joint on the front is glued, so all the movement happens at the back of the end caps. It looks like you have allowed for that, but you need some more meat along the length of the end cap. The other issue is that the back leg isn't attached well to the top (if at all, hard to tell from the drawing). The result will be that the bench has less resistance to racking.

Your second drawing would work. But if you really want to offset it to one end, you could leave just 4"-6" of full-width glue up at that end. Personally, I'd make the full-depth glue up at least long enough to cover the back leg and allow for some joinery of the leg to the top.

Another option would be to have a tool well as an add-on at the back of the bench. You could even design it to be repositionable.


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## drcodfish

Jason:

What is your rationale for a partial tool well? I assume it is a space saving objective. I made mine as an attachment to the benchtop, out board of the legs. But that added an additional 7 inches to the bench width which I am guessing is real estate you would rather not sacrifice?


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## Spelcher

Wow bulldog - it looks like you have lots of nice options for wood materials. I've always been intrigued by sycamore -the wood looks really nice. We cut them down from time to time here, but I've never had the chance to mill any. I think cherry and spalted sycamore would look extremely nice together.

Thanks for the input Mark, I ended up milling the wood for plan B yesterday with a toolwell space in the middle, offset a bit to the left but with full width over the leg as you suggested.

I'm still trying to decide how to fasten the top - I want it to be easy to take off as I can foresee needing to move the bench a few times. I'm considering some blind vertical pegs in the front legs and lag bolts through the top stretchers between the legs, holes widened in the stretchers to allow movement - the base will look something like this: 









That's it exactly Dr C, I started with plans for a 60" by 22" bench so surface real estate was a concern, but now it's grown to 72" x 24.5" so maybe it's not as big a deal anymore. I do like the idea of having the option of a tool well but at least part of the bench surface at full width though. I ended up milling up the wood for a 33" x 6.25" toolwell, with the bench full-width for 14" on the left and 23.5" on the right.

My old toolwell was 4' long and I used to keep too many things in it - I'm thinking this arrangement will allow me to keep what I need at hand safe from rolling onto the floor, but encourage me to put things away when possible…


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## drcodfish

Jason:

I can relate about the tool tray becoming a second home for tools which belong somewhere else. I have accepted that there are a few items which do belong there (tape measure 6" carpenters square, a couple hold fasts). I plan to build a cabinet beneath my bench and will then have a couple drawers which I believe will become home for these items. But that's down the road, perhaps this summer if time allows.


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## mramseyISU

Bulldog I built that Schwartz cabinet a couple years back and I really like how much crap I can store in it. It was my first try at hand cut dovetails and by the end I was getting pretty good at it.

Oh and Buckethead I love the Scottie P. knowwhatimsayin'


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## BulldogLouisiana

> Bulldog I built that Schwartz cabinet a couple years back and I really like how much crap I can store in it. It was my first try at hand cut dovetails and by the end I was getting pretty good at it.
> 
> Oh and Buckethead I love the Scottie P. knowwhatimsayin
> 
> - mramseyISU


Well, I didn't get a lot of feedback but I figured I'd just go with my gut. I have some soft maple and cherry en route from Bell Forest. The spalted hickory leg chop is my plan at this time. Not sure about end cap..either cherry or spalted I guess. I should get started pretty soon. Will probably let the wood acclimate for a couple weeks.


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## DLK

Bellforest is about an hour east of me and has exceptional service is great but pricey. Except for there cutoff/scrap bin which I pick trough when ever I pass by. Kewnenaw Specially Woods is about a half hour north of me and I think you may be able to get a better price on soft maple from them. Behind them is BirdseyeCreations which is the supplier of Birdseye maple for Woodcraft. The respective owners are family related.


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## Iguana

Jason,

Using locating dowels to hold the top in position is a decent plan. And lag bolts will keep it from moving around. But that arrangement doesn't offer as much racking resistance as I think you'd want. I'll suggest adding an upper stretcher at the back of the bench to make the frame as rigid as possible.

I built my bench that way, and it does not move. Instead of locating dowels, I cut integral tenons into the top of all four legs - tenons on the front legs oriented to keep the front faces of the top and legs coplanar, tenons on the back legs oriented to allow for wood movement. Simply dropped the top on, never bothered with lags. In theory, the top can be lifted off and the bench disassembled, though I've never tested that.


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## Hammerthumb

I made my nephews bench similar to what Mark is talking about. The front tenons are mortised into the top tight for alignment of the front of the bench, and the mortises for the rear legs were elongated slightly front to back to allow wood movement. I don't have any pictures of the mortises on the bottom of the top, but I hope you get the idea.










The top is just held in place with gravity.


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## DLK

Mine is also held in place by gravity. Its a good solution if you ever need to move it or need to turn the top over for installing a different vice or just want to replace the top.


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## theoldfart

While mine is a Roubo, the top is just dropped on. I did not wedge the tenons. Doing this plus bench bolts should allow me to disassemble and move the bench(with twelve burley men!).


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## Hammerthumb

When I made my nephews bench, one of the objectives is that it be knock down. He is young and is not really settled yet.

There are bolts thru the legs into the tenons of the long stretchers which hold some home made barrel nuts. Remove the top, undo the 4 bolts, and the bench can be dis-assembled in less than 5 minutes. Parts are the 2 sides (right and left leg sets), two long stretchers, the deadman, and the top.

This came in handy as he has recently moved. As his bench was made of an old doug fir beam, it does not require 12 burley men.


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## theoldfart

ok, maybe i exaggerated, only two guys would probably do it. Doug fir on the legs but the top is 4" oak.


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## Hammerthumb

That sounds like 4 burley men, or twelve minihunis. ;-)


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## DLK

> ok, maybe i exaggerated, only two guys would probably do it. Doug fir on the legs but the top is 4" oak.
> 
> - theoldfart


I suppose you mean to disassemble and move it.

To take the top off of my bench and flip it over I place two adjacent saw horses next to the bench. I lift one end of the top and slide a beam under it on the top end rail so that the mortise clears the tenon. Then I go to the other end of bench top lift and pivot on the "slid in beam" placing one end on a saw horse. I then swing the other end onto the other saw horse. Then after a brief rest. I lift and balance the top on a side edge. Walk the on edge top to the end of both saw horse and lower the top down on to the saw horse so that its upside down. (Praying it all doesn't crash to the floor. Then I could work on the bottom. Or to move it I by similar methods put the top onto my other work bench, which has wheels. Then I could roll it over to the new location. The legs which are designed to be disassembled I could just drag with out disassembling to right location. Point being I could do it as a one man job and I think my bench may be heaver then yours. So you can too. I do have to have a lay done and take a nap after words, may ingest some naproxen.


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## Hammerthumb

One Combo Prof = 4 burley men ^


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## theoldfart

The fir between the tenons and dovetails and the top is quite tight. I will need to use a couple of bottle jacks to lift the top off them. I have done the one man thing a couple of times without mishap but not willing to do that again.


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## DLK

> One Combo Prof = 4 burley men ^
> 
> - Hammerthumb


LOL. No just one motivated man using mathematics and physics.


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## DLK

> The fir between the tenons and dovetails and the top is quite tight. I will need to use a couple of bottle jacks to lift the top off them. I have done the one man thing a couple of times without mishap but not willing to do that again.
> 
> - theoldfart


My top tenons are indeed a little loose, because I fiddling with them during the build trying to correct what I thought I did wrong but was right all along. Fate interveened and it does make it easier to get the top on and off and when it is in place (because it is friggen heavy) it does not move. So all good.


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## Mosquito

I am currently using through tenons on my benchtop, but still just use a dry fit.

Actually, nothing on my workbench is glued except the front board on the benchtop is glued to the slab, the 2-piece laminated legs, and the wooden screws are glued to their hubs


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## theoldfart

"I fiddling with them during the build trying to correct what I thought I did wrong but was right all along"

LOL same here. I wound up tapering mine so they appear loose at the top but the last inch took a sledge to drive the top down.


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## Hammerthumb

Never admit to having a loose tenon! ;-)


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## theoldfart

Never a "loose" tenon, but a loose mortise would be a concern!


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## Spelcher

Thanks guys - it sounds like I have just been convinced to attach the top with tenons on top of my legs. It's so great to hear how others have done it, I hadn't thought of the option of leaving space for movement in the back leg mortises. I shied away from the cool looking Roubo style through tenons on front and back legs because I get so much humidity variation in my shop and want to plan for excessive wood movement. This is a nice compromise…

I think I would want a lag screw through the top end rails at each end, though, so that I can lift up on the top of the bench to move it away from the wall from time to time without the top coming off the base…


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## kiefer

Jason
Making the back mortises oversize front to back will take care of expansion of the top and just make sure the bolts /lags also have room to move in elongated holes .

Klaus


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## BulldogLouisiana

I'm on page 250 of this thread. I have also read the last couple of pages since I posted, so I'm probably jumping the gun but It's like reading a book that everyone else read years ago. So many characters have been introduced, but now I'm not seeing them being active. Is this the Game of Thrones thread? Have most of the characters been knocked off? Where is the affable red giant? I have so many questions. Did Stef build his bench? Where's Al, and why did he just buy hardware? Did he get screwed then leave? Weher si Lysdexic? Deos anoyne know?

A lady walks into a bar and the bartender asks "What will ya have?" She said, "Gimme a double entendre." So he gave it to her.


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## chrisstef

Lol bulldog. I did indeed build a bench after all that ribbing. Al and Lys only post when the gimp lets them out of the closet about once a year. The red giant floats around but can be seen mostly at parades, carnivals, freak shows and the furniture maker thread. Bless you for reading through.


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## onoitsmatt

Ha Bulldog. I did the same thing this past Thanksgiving/Christmas. It is a great thread but it is loooong. Having said that, wish I had read it before I started my build. Spoiler alert, The workbench is really the ghost of a dead guy.


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## SawyerRob

Work Bench Smack Down! eh…

Well, I'll probably get "smacked downed" for posting this, BUT my "latest" bench is SUPER STRONG, has NO fasteners and hasn't moved even one inch since I built it! lol It's own weight holds it all together…

I started out by harvesting an Ash tree that my neighbor wanted removed and here's the log out of it, on it's way to my sawmill,










Once there I milled it into the HEAVY lumber I wanted,










Making a nice pile of lumber to build with,










I then "squared up" an OLD short red oak log I had around,










Cutting it into the two lengths i needed, with my chainsaw and moving them and all the lumber into my basement,










Setting them into place. The back piece is 4" thick and the front is 3-1/2" thick,










I think the top looks pretty good and is super strong!! lol










BUT, I wanted a shelf on it too, SO, the "work bench" got it's first use!



















Because of the two thickness of the bench top, I had to notch out two of the uprights,










So, I cleaned up all the small pieces putting them through the planer,










After trueing things up, I cut the pieces to get the sizes I needed,










and put it all together,










and here it is, ready for it's intended job, reloading ammo and what ever "other" little job I have for it!










ooooh, to hold my "Gear Wrenches", I drilled some holes in the shelf and pounded some 30 cal. Match Kings in them, to hold the wrenches…










OK, that's the "short" version of how it all happen! lol

Is it fine wood working ? naaaa, but I've done plenty of "that" years ago, when I owned my own custom furniture/cabinet shop, but this bench DOES get the job done and that's all I wanted out of this project!

SR


----------



## shampeon

SawyerRob: dunno if those legs will support the top. You might want to laminate some additional lumber. I like it's portability, too. Nice job.


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## Iguana

Bulldog, SawyerRob - welcome to this thread.

SawyerRob - the only bad workbench is one that doesn't work for you. What you've got looks pretty awesome to me. What's that hand crank thing on the right of the shelf?

Bulldog - Stef is being a bit modest. Out of nowhere, he dropped a bomb - one fully complete and functional bench. No warning whatsoever. We're still recovering. And looking for someone else to bear the brunt of all the needling.

I think you'll find that many participants are fairly active when they are in the process of planning and building benches. And once having built a bench, become less active here. I take that to mean that they are busy on other projects, and not locked in the dungeons of Westeros.


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## mramseyISU

SawyerRob, you sure it's heavy enough. Looks a bit light….


----------



## JayT

Rob, you might want to reinforce that top, too. Looks like it might start sagging under the load. Ha!

Wish my reloading bench was that nice (and that organized-constant battle for me). Must be doing mostly rifle with that set-up, right? What all do you load?


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## DanKrager

OK, Sawyer. About that finished bench…a bondo pose is a "requirement" and pester you we will until there is one. Unless, like some, your bench is never finished…but then you have to post progress pictures.

Love it, man.

DanK


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## terryR

Nice re-loading bench!
Those are the most massive legs i've seen…


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## SawyerRob

Thanks guys! I never planned to put any finish on the bench, in fact because I put it together with "green" lumber, I always knew it was going to "move around" a bit as it dried out. If you look closer at the picts, you can see that I "quarter and rift" sawed the "top" pieces, so they would move less in width.

I also made the top out of two pieces, ones 12", the other 18" wide, so I'd have no problem later running them through my planer. That's another reason I let "gravity" hold it together. lol

I do plan to change out the legs, I just haven't gotten to it yet, but it is coming!

As for the "crank thing" on the shelf, I think you are referring to the "powder dispenser" that's there… As to what I reload. Well, this isn't my only reloading bench, I have something like 50 die sets, so over the years, I've reloaded a bunch of different cartridges, along with casting bullets, shot gun reloaders, and I also have a complete bullet swage set up too. In another life, I had an ammo mfg. license, and made and sold "bonded core" copper jacketed bullets ect..

Thanks again guys!

SR


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## kiefer

Live edge bench that' a first it's bullet proof !

Klaus


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## Spelcher

That's awesome SR. You could consider bolting the bench to the floor to make your shop more stable.


----------



## Spelcher

Thinking about end-vise planning…

I'm currently leaning toward putting a Record QR vise on the end as I already have the vise. I just took a hand tools course here this week, where the benches were equipped with wagon vises, and it's made me think that I should design my bench so that I have the option of installing one in the future… A big advantage I see with the wagon vise over a QR face-vise in the end vise position is not having an unsupported area at the end when face planing thinner pieces. 
Even though I'm planning dog holes on 3" centres, I imagine thinner boards could flex a bit over a gap of that much. Has anyone with this arrangement had issues with this?

So to keep my vise options open in the future (I fantasize about the Benchcrafted tail vise, but it's out of my reach at the moment), I am thinking of installing the end vise like Kevin (theoldfart) and others have done, but with a removable endcap. This would also allow me to have some wood covering the rear jaws for the odd time I'm clamping directly in the vise instead of between dogs, and the end cap could be replaceable down the road.

Does anyone see a problem with an arrangement like this? The two endcap layers would be glued together, and the enccap would sit on a long tongue and slid into a dovetail in the front edge laminate and bolted on with 3 bolts (with enlarged holes to allow for seasonal movement). The green piece is a shim for mounting the bottom of the vise.
















In this arrangement, the front left vise mounting bolt would go through part of the dovetail, but it would also allow for the front bolts to go through the endcap and the back bolts to go through the bench top, which might further help to attach the endcap to the top. Not sure it would be taking enough of a chunk out of the dovetail to significantly reduce its strength…

I like the idea of having the vise right at the front edge of the bench, as I think it would reduce racking forces with my dog holes 1 3/4" from the front edge.


----------



## kiefer

Here is a solution that may interest you Jason I did a end tail vise setup but this could easily made into a end and wagon vise setup .
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/105719

















Klaus


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## Spelcher

That's a great idea Klaus! I loved your end tail vise setup but hadn't thought of applying the idea to a wagon vise… I think I'll come up with a plan to eventually incorporate that into my bench - like with a bar that can attach the wagon vise traveller to the end vise, so I can have the option of both types…


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

Workbench shall commence soon. Had some cherry and soft maple delivered today!


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## Spelcher

The contrast will be beautiful!


----------



## Spelcher

Some progress today. Flattening took longer than I hoped. 
Klaus gave me an idea for the end vise so I'm off to my buddy's place next week to try out his welder to see if I thought through the idea properly…


----------



## terryR

Looks fantastic, Jason!


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## duckmilk

Jason, that top looks fantastic! Keep posting pictures man.

Same for you Bulldog, more pics please.

Good stuff Sawyer.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> Jason, that top looks fantastic! Keep posting pictures man.
> 
> Same for you Bulldog, more pics please.
> 
> Good stuff Sawyer.
> 
> - duckmilk


I'm planning on getting started this weekend. I can't compete with Jason's though, so I need to let him get finished before I start posting pics.


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## duckmilk

I'm not understanding your reasoning there, this thread isn't about competition, it's all about sharing with the group, who are a bunch of picture hungry droolers, lol. Besides, with the wood choices you have, I'm sure it will be killer.


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## john2005

I think what he's trying to say is "pics or it didn't happen".


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## john2005

I think what he's trying to say is "pics or it didn't happen".


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## Spelcher

Thanks guys! Bulldog, your lumber pile is already droolworthy! I can't wait to see some progress pics.

Got to play with my buddy's dinky little harbour freight homeowner welder last night for transformer wagon vise prototype 


















next step, a mockup to see if the idea will work - but might not get any shop time for a couple weeks


----------



## duckmilk

Looks interesting Jason. I looked at Klaus' design, how's your design intended to work?


----------



## Spelcher

I have no idea if I've thought it out correctly, but I designed a wagon vise based on Will Myers' wagon vise, but using Klaus' idea of making it a slave to a face vise on the end of the bench. In my case, instead of a twin screw in the end vise position, I've got a Record QR. I'll post the mockup when I get the shop time to put it together…


----------



## duckmilk

I hope it works, or gives you the fix to make it work. It's been quite a while since I looked at Myer's design.


----------



## daddywoofdawg

spalted sycamore for the stretchers,ash for the top if they are long enough,otherwise legs,can you get cypress cheap?make a good top or legs.


----------



## kiefer

Jason
I can see where you are going with this and it's going to be very simple by the looks of it .

Klaus


----------



## BikerDad

A pic showing the split top, with one of the "filler" strips removed.










Over the last couple of weekends, I've been working on this cubby for the backside of the bench. It's built of scrap I had on hand, all the horizontal surfaces are plywood faced with Douglas Fir/pine, and all the verticals are pine.









Cubbies loaded up.









The Systainer and L-Boxx are not in the cubby unit.


----------



## ssnvet

I finally tossed all of my tool cases (except for my framing nailer) and have never looked back.

Too much space required to layout, unload and store cases.

Tools are on a shelf under the bench plugged into a power strip ready to go.


----------



## gargey

Three questions:

1) Is it bad to keep tools plugged in for long periods of time without use?

2) What is the point of the split top in the bench posted above? I understand what a tool tray is for, but thats not what that is. What is the functionality you gain?

3) One train leaves Cleveland at 2PM traveling at 30mph and another leaves Pittsburgh at 5PM traveling at 60mph; what time do they meet?


----------



## WillliamMSP

The filler strip is a convenient place to park frequently-used tools so that they're close at hand - square, chisel, back saw, etc. The filler strips are also often designed such that you can position them so that it's slightly raised from the bench top so that it can be used as a stop for planing or whatnot. The split top also allows you to fit a clamp through the two slabs, giving you more work holding options.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

Bikerdad, bench is looking fantastic!


----------



## DLK

> 3) One train leaves Cleveland at 2PM traveling at 30mph and another leaves Pittsburgh at 5PM traveling at 60mph; what time do they meet?
> 
> - gargey


They never meet if they are traveling away from each other.


----------



## JayT

> 3) One train leaves Cleveland at 2PM traveling at 30mph and another leaves Pittsburgh at 5PM traveling at 60mph; what time do they meet?
> 
> - gargey


Doesn't matter what you calculate out for a schedule, trains are never on time anyways.


----------



## Hammerthumb

It's all Red's fault. ^


----------



## jmartel

> 3) One train leaves Cleveland at 2PM traveling at 30mph and another leaves Pittsburgh at 5PM traveling at 60mph; what time do they meet?
> 
> - gargey


Assuming they are travelling towards each other and it's 132 mi distance apart (according to Google), 5:28 pm, 28 miles outside of Pittsburgh.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I was just thinking "who is going to sit there and calculate this?"


----------



## JayT

And you have your answer. An engineer.


----------



## jmartel

It's a disease.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I think he has too much time on his hands JayT.

As for myself, I'm sitting here coloring up architectural drawings. Trying to stay inside the lines.


----------



## john2005

The real question is were you surprised at who that was?


----------



## john2005

Late…


----------



## DLK

> 3) One train leaves Cleveland at 2PM traveling at 30mph and another leaves Pittsburgh at 5PM traveling at 60mph; what time do they meet?
> 
> - gargey
> 
> Assuming they are travelling towards each other and it s 132 mi distance apart (according to Google), 5:28 pm, 28 miles outside of Pittsburgh.
> 
> - jmartel


Wouldn't they just pass by each other and never actually meet? They are on different tracks after all.


----------



## gargey

> The split top also allows you to fit a clamp through the two slabs, giving you more work holding options.


Gotcha, that's good.

Thanks for the locomotive answers guys


----------



## Spelcher

I didn't have the mathematical training to weigh in on that discussion


----------



## splatman

OK, I do not wanna derail the conversation, guys, but let's get back on track, OK?
Curious: Anyone built a workbench entirely out of dumpster wood?


----------



## bandit571

Yep…..me


----------



## DanKrager

On those train questions, I always get distracted by wondering about the people on the trains. Why would those in Cleveland go towards Pittsburgh? And why would those in Pittsburgh head towards Cleveland? Perhaps I could understand better if they were headed to do rust hunting in each others towns, but the problem doesn't mention that. And on those trains leaving NY City, there must be some stupid people if they think there will be better shopping anywhere else. Did they bring the kids? How long are they going to stay? How much money are they going to spend? Trains never average the speeds mentioned, so ho much do I allow for the variance? ....etc. Very distracting.

DanK


----------



## duckmilk

^ Haha


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> OK, I do not wanna derail the conversation, guys, but let s get back on track, OK?
> Curious: Anyone built a workbench entirely out of dumpster wood?
> 
> - splatman


I always have to acknowledge a clever post. Well done sir!


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

The workbench project begins! My buddy is helping me out. We did some milling of soft maple…....getting the top for laminating. Gonna do some more tomorrow.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Now that's the quick way to surface some lumber!


----------



## KentInOttawa

> OK, I do not wanna derail the conversation, guys, but let s get back on track, OK?
> Curious: Anyone built a workbench entirely out of dumpster wood?
> 
> - splatman


A hearty "maybe".

I was in full dumpster harvest mode a few years ago, and had collected quite a bit of wood. Because of an accident, I was forced to stop both that and woodworking. As part of my recovery, I've started working on my hand tool skills, and am building a bench out of pallet wood. I have a (long-winded) build blog started and am currently just flattening and squaring some 3×3 softwood to laminate for the top.










Because of the accident, my energy and focus are limited, so I have to ration them between building this bench, blogging about it, and everything else, so this is going to be a very long and slow build; As an example, last week I only managed to flatten 2 faces and trim 6 boards to length.










So, the build on a "workbench entirely out of dumpster wood" has started, but the design has barely begun.


----------



## Tugboater78

One train leaves Cleveland at 2PM traveling at 30mph and another leaves Pittsburgh at 5PM traveling at 60mph; what time does it take to load an elephant into a cargo plane, traveling at 375 ft per second.

New math..


----------



## putty

^ with common core any answer will be correct


----------



## bandit571

Dumpster dive bench in the shop….









Found the remains of a waterbed frame. Needed a single, sunny, Sunday afternoon to build.


----------



## DLK

Whats keeping that lathe from crashing to the floor


----------



## Sunstealer73

I've been rearranging my shop, running new 6" duct for my new dust collector, and trying to finish up some shop projects. I got several things finished up on my bench.

Veritas Prairie Dogs in End Vise:


















Workbench Casters:









Shiplapped Boards for Bottom Shelf:









Tool Bins for Split Top:









Not entirely happy with the tool inserts, I'll probably remake them when I get some more ash. I just used an old pine shelf board I had laying around. I still need to make the sliding deadman and drill more dog holes.

I've been using the bench for assembly, chiseling, planing, etc. It is so solid and really makes a good improvement in how I work.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

Looking good Sunstealer!


----------



## Spelcher

Ooh, I like the prairie dog setup in the end vise, and that's a pretty slick caster setup Sunstealer.

Nice progress bulldog. That's a sweet looking shop - and a sexy bench in the background.

I love the idea of a dumpster bench Kent - please keep posting your progress here…


----------



## bandit571

> Whats keeping that lathe from crashing to the floor
> 
> - Combo Prof


Mainly the tailstock. It sat there until I could build it's own lathe bench. Things are a might more crowded down there nowadays









But there is a $10 end vise, a leg vise using a pipe clamp as the "screw", and a Crochet at the far end. There are a few dog holes, sized for the dogs from a B&D Workmate. 









added some places to set the most used chisels and squares









Added this RR Spike as a place to rest boards, for when I am jointing the edges. Other end of the board goes into the leg vise. 









On the rare occaisions when the bench is totally cleared off ( before I added the chisel rack)

The water bed frame parts were 2×10s. I also found a few 2×4s, a 1×6, and the hinge rail of a door. The chop for the leg vise came as a rieved off slab of sycamore 6×6. Saw couldn't quite get all the way through…A splitting maul helped it apart…
Bench was made to fit IN the shop's work space…..IF I had more room, a larger bench might have been made. This size was easier to get down the basement step and into the shop.


----------



## john2005

> Whats keeping that lathe from crashing to the floor
> 
> - Combo Prof


Fear.


----------



## Spelcher

Nice bench bandit. Love the chisel rack


----------



## Spelcher

Question for all you wagon drivers out there:

I was thinking of 8" of dog travel for the wagon vise, for no particular reason. Planning on 3" centre spacing for dog holes, so I thought I wouldn't need a lot of travel beyond 3" - is there a compelling reason to have more travel for the traveller on his travels?


----------



## Mosquito

you don't "need" any more travel than slightly more than your dog hole spacing.

I rarely use all of my wagon vise capacity, and mine's also 6" with 4" spacing. For me, the reason you might want to is that it may be quicker to move the wagon instead of changing dog holes between pieces sometimes.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> Ooh, I like the prairie dog setup in the end vise, and that s a pretty slick caster setup Sunstealer.
> 
> Nice progress bulldog. That s a sweet looking shop - and a sexy bench in the background.
> 
> I love the idea of a dumpster bench Kent - please keep posting your progress here…
> 
> - Spelcher


It's my friend's shop and Roubo in the background of my pictures. He does have a pretty nice shop.


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks Mos, good to hear from someone with less than a huge amount of travel on a wagon vise. You've posted some great action shots of your bench and it looks impressive. The BC wagon vise comes with such a crazy amount of travel I thought I was overlooking something…

Bulldog - see if you can sneak a couple sneaky shots of that bench next time you're at your buddy's shop… I like the saddle stool too…


----------



## duckmilk

Wow, good catch Jason. I didn't notice the stool.

Nice wood Bulldog.

Hi Ken, keep posting as you are able.


----------



## putty

Bandit, what are you reading…the Big Fun?


----------



## bandit571

Grandson's book, I think….may have gotten tossed during the clean up going on..it IS sitting on a trashbag…..and it is no longer down there…..









Using the crochet, to joint a board…









End vise. The "red" part cost a whopping $10. Added the wooden jaws, and some dog holes…









At that same corner is the leg vise. Seems to work better out on this end of the bench, more room to work. 









What came home from an antique tractor fest, last Labour Day. I intend to go back there this coming Labour Day, and see what else they have.


----------



## Spelcher

I got a delivery notice today…


----------



## WillliamMSP

Oh, that criss-cross action! Nice! Jealous!


----------



## ssnvet

Questions for the crew concerning the conventional wisdom behind split top Roubo designs

1. How wide should each slab be? Should they be the same? If the bench is to go up against a wall, does this change? 
2. How wide should the split be?
3. Why does the split usually go all the way to the ends? Seems like having it only run between the legs would give more end vise options?

Thanks in advance…


----------



## builtinbkyn

Here's a link to the BC roubo bench plans. Link


----------



## bandit571

Bench needed cleared off, before the next project starts..









Took a # 7c across the high spots. One end of the bench has been getting "abused" 









Ya think???


----------



## ssnvet

Thanks Bill….

Bench Crafted has their build notes, but that's the first .pdf plan with complete dims I've ever seen.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> Bulldog - see if you can sneak a couple sneaky shots of that bench next time you re at your buddy s shop… I like the saddle stool too…
> 
> - Spelcher


I didn't notice your request for more pictures of my friends bench. I have some from his project build. It's 10 feet long and I think it's about 28" wide. Made from European beech.


----------



## theoldfart

That's a bigun'!


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

Workbench update: Up to this point, the work bench build has been about spending money and surfacing the lumber. Today..the back slab of the Roubo has been glued up!



















I need to find some more lumber..I used a jointer for this first time on this project, and it went pretty well on the maple. I did something to one of the cherry boards for the legs..left a wicked taper in the thickness of one board. I called a local lumber supplier and asked for a quote on some cherry. They said 12.95 a board foot. I'm hoping someone read from the wrong column of that spreadsheet. I found one 4/4×6" x 12' long cherry board at a molding place. They could only spare one piece but it should work for my gap stop.


----------



## CL810

Looking good Bulldog!


----------



## drcodfish

Hey Y'all:

Exposing my rookieness, cheapness, ignorance here, .... Bulldog (and the rest of you too) how did you come by all those clamps? Just the cost of that many of those clamps (at retail anyway) would far exceed all the money I put into my bench. In fact the lack of availability of clamps was a major reason I chose to build my bench top (primarily) out of two pieces of 12" wide hard maple.

Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to have a shop full of all sizes of clamps, but they would be a budget buster for me.


----------



## bandit571

Ah, but all those clamps can be used for other projects along the way. Can never have too many clamps, some days I barely have enough..









Or the room to use them…


----------



## WillliamMSP

That is a butt load of clamps - I don't have that many, but the 3/4" pipe clamps at Harbor Freight have served me well, so far. That and some black pipe at the BORG (~$10 for a 10') cut up in to 3 or 4 pieces makes for a pretty reasonable value.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Side note: when I found myself lusting after some parallel clamps, I knew that I had been bitten hard by the bug.


----------



## drcodfish

Bandit:

We are incomplete agreement, in fact, being one with an embarrassingly small clamp collection, I think I know better than most just how valuable a large collection of clamps is. But you may have missed my point: I don't discount the value of clamps, I'm just wondering how one deals with the cost (you know, cost and value?)

Is there some Clamp World Discount house I have not heard of? Do we just accept that a second mortgage is reasonable to finance the clamp collection? I haunt yard sales and that has been a little bit productive but at my rate, I will be a bad and distant memory before I have the 'right' number of clamps.


----------



## bandit571

How I deal with the cost? Yard sales…..get a few at a time~ $1 each. Pipe clamps? About the same routine, Yard sales , then go to Menards for the black pipe…

I'm always on the look out for clamps at yard sales.

Clamp World Discount store..would be Harbor Freight.

Taken a few years to get where I'm at, clamp-wise. Each Yard Sale Season seems to add a few more….never will get enough clamps, tain't going to happen.


----------



## kiefer

> Hey Y all:
> 
> Exposing my rookieness, cheapness, ignorance here, .... Bulldog (and the rest of you too) how did you come by all those clamps? Just the cost of that many of those clamps (at retail anyway) would far exceed all the money I put into my bench. In fact the lack of availability of clamps was a major reason I chose to build my bench top (primarily) out of two pieces of 12" wide hard maple.
> 
> Don t get me wrong, I would LOVE to have a shop full of all sizes of clamps, but they would be a budget buster for me.
> 
> - drcodfish


I am the type of guy that builds a lot of tools for himself for lack of funds and also just for the satisfaction of having it done myself 
This post I did some time ago may solve your clamp issue to some extend .
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/97622

Klaus


----------



## Spelcher

Nice work bulldog, that looks like it's going to be a very stout bench! Nice pics of your buddy's bench too - that thing is a monster. Cherry in these parts is super pricey - which is sad because it is one of my favourite woods. I would love to incorporate some into my bench.

Dr C, I've also been lucky to find a lot of old pipe clamps going for 10 bucks or so in junk shops, especially in smaller towns. A couple months ago I found someone selling a couple unused Bessey K-body panel clamp sets for half the original cost, and ended up doing some work on his trees after buying them, so I ended getting the clamps for less than free. At least that's how I justified the purchase with my better half…

I've booked two whole days for workbench tinkering this weekend, so hopefully will have some progress pics soon…


----------



## Spelcher

WOW! Kiefer, that is a great design! I'd love to make some of those one day.


----------



## kiefer

Thanks Jason 
Those clamps are inexpensive to make and work quite well .
Here is the original I designed and it explains and shows the function a lot better but this one I keep in the house as an ornament .http://lumberjocks.com/projects/96025









Klaus


----------



## drcodfish

OK, good to know that I wasn't missing some secret handshake on clamp acquisition. I've gotten them at "Ye Olde Junque, and Stuff and Things" type shops and of course Harbor freight.

There is a town not distant which has a major antique shop section and occasionally I can score there but the vendors always start sky high, they want to dicker but it makes it hard when their starting point is at retail +10%. I have actually had good luck on Craig's List as well, but I know that can be a bust from time to time.

Thanks for the idea Kiefer.

Jason: I too was hoping for some major shop time this weekend too but the weather forecast suggests this may be the weekend to drain and clean the Koi pond, which is a major undertaking, and my fish are certainly ready for spring cleaning.


----------



## BikerDad

> Questions for the crew concerning the conventional wisdom behind split top Roubo designs
> 
> 1. How wide should each slab be?


 As wide as you want. However, one of the advantages to the SPR is that the slabs are usually sized to go through a benchtop planer. So, if you have a planer, then consider making your slabs no wider than the planer can handle. If you're going to do all the thicknessing, or at least the final thicknessing, by hand then the width limitations of your machinery are moot. (Likewise if you use a router sled).



> Should they be the same?


 Should they? Only if you want them to be. Mine are not the same, the front slab is about 16", the rear is a bit under 12". Since most of the action is going to happen on the front slab, if you go for different dimensions, bigger in front makes more sense. At least to me. YMMV.



> If the bench is to go up against a wall, does this change?


 Sort of. The total depth of the bench should be such that you can reach the wall/whatever you put on the wall. Obviously, if one is a T-Rex, then your bench should be pretty shallow. If, on the other hand, you are a pro beach volleyball player, you can probably go 30"+ deep.



> 2. How wide should the split be?


1.5"-3", no point in more than that. All you really need is however much width you want for storage (1/2" - 3/4" suffices), then whatever the thickness of your other pieces. I used 3/4"ish stock, width is about the same, for a total of about 2 1/4"



> 3. Why does the split usually go all the way to the ends? Seems like having it only run between the legs would give more end vise options?


It's a lot easier to make it if the split goes to the ends. And much easier to run it through the planer later for flattening. Also, running the split to the ends allows you to sleeve a lot more workpieces over the ends of the 12" slabs than you'd be able to do over a 24" slab. The only vise option that a split-less end gives versus non-split is a full width end vise, which would generally mean a twin screw. Otherwise, most folks will either put a wagon vise or a normal QR vise on the end.


----------



## BikerDad

Bulldog,

Love your buddies bench. I wish I could get a picture like that of mine, but I can't get far enough away, which is why all of my pictures are angle shots.


----------



## Handtooler

BikerDad, Extremely good explanation on your part. Bob Lang's 21st Century Bench, which is a split top, utilizes tool/junk trays which are reversible to make the bench top a solid piece. And, yes certainly the option of using the planer for flattening is a plus as you describe most useful. He and I placed our twin screw vise on the front left corner (for right handers) and the smaller vise as a tail vise. Bob has/had a great video of the bench if it's still available.


----------



## drcodfish

Bikerdad:

The moment I saw your list of questions I immediately thought of me and how much I learned from The Workbench Design Book by Christopher Schwartz. When I built my bench about all I knew was that I liked those big honking benches and I wanted to build one. That book was gas on the fire.

I bought a new table saw, and a box of old planes, a bench grinder, a band saw and lots of other tools but the most useful and valuable tool I bought was that book. It is more than a 'how to build a bench" book it is wood worker reference material.

Though I am not big on the split top design, when I saw the Robert Lang bench (in the book) with those cool flippable boxes I have to admit I slowed down and had another look.

What I am sneaking up on here is that this place (LJ) is a great place to get information, but I think the cost of that book is some of the best money I spent in the process of building my bench. Consider getting one if you have not done so already.


----------



## CL810

+1 on the blue book. Required reading.



> Bikerdad:
> 
> The moment I saw your list of questions I immediately thought of me and how much I learned from The Workbench Design Book by Christopher Schwartz.
> 
> What I am sneaking up on here is that this place (LJ) is a great place to get information, but I think the cost of that book is some of the best money I spent in the process of building my bench. Consider getting one if you have not done so already.
> 
> - drcodfish


----------



## WillliamMSP

Another +1 - it's a good book. I often find that it's easier to follow a singular voice over the course of a number of considerations as opposed to the scattershot of multiple view points all at once.


----------



## Northwest29

> OK, good to know that I wasn t missing some secret handshake on clamp acquisition. I ve gotten them at "Ye Olde Junque, and Stuff and Things" type shops and of course Harbor freight.
> 
> There is a town not distant which has a major antique shop section and occasionally I can score there but the vendors always start sky high, they want to dicker but it makes it hard when their starting point is at retail +10%. I have actually had good luck on Craig s List as well, but I know that can be a bust from time to time.
> 
> Thanks for the idea Kiefer.
> 
> Jason: I too was hoping for some major shop time this weekend too but the weather forecast suggests this may be the weekend to drain and clean the Koi pond, which is a major undertaking, and my fish are certainly ready for spring cleaning.
> 
> - drcodfish


Been there and done that - YUCK!


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

You like clamps? Time for an update on the workbench build! My Cherry and Soft Maple Roubo build is progressing. Today was a good day for glue ups.










My front slab, without the doghole section or front laminate. It's right at 8 1/16" in this picture.










Cherry legs, waiting patiently..










This is just about every part of the bench build that needed glue ups. Front rails, front slab, legs, part of the dog hole strip, and the deadman (not pictured). It was a productive day!


----------



## CL810

Looking good Bulldog.


----------



## TheFridge

> Looking good Bulldog.
> 
> - CL810


Ditto Tim


----------



## ssnvet

That there be a lot of pipe clamps :^)


----------



## duckmilk

Nice, and yeah, that's a bunch of clamps. What does your friend build with that much table space and that many clamps?


----------



## drcodfish

"What does your friend build with that much table space and that many clamps?"

My thoughts exactly.


----------



## ssnvet

Hey… I'd rather be the Imelda Marcos of clamps, than shoes :^p


----------



## drcodfish

Don't get me wrong, I am envious not disparaging.


----------



## Spelcher

Slow going, but a bit more progress today…








Front beech laminate isn't glued yet, just resting on the old leg vise chop - hence the gap on the left end.

End cap question: at the moment it's just resting on a tenon that goes through to the back of the bench









I'm planning on 4 bolts along the end cap, with the frontmost one fixed and the rest allowing movement, but trying to decide how to allow for movement. I'd rather not elongate the holes on the endcap as that would be less pretty, so I was thinking of drilling the 3 back holes oversize through the benchtop and cutting widened recesses for the nuts and washers under the benchtop that will allow movement.

I was thinking 3/8 bolts - in that case would 1/2" holes in the benchtop for the bolts be sufficient for a 25" 
top that sees a lot of moisture change? I'm imagining 5/8" holes would be too wide for the nuts and would result in bent washers…

I originally wanted to use the LV barrel bolts, but can't figure out how to allow for movement with those.

I do want the end cap to be easily removable.

I'd love to hear others' opinions on end cap attachment…


----------



## Hammerthumb

Jason - Have you thought of pinning the end cap with wood dowels through the tenon? Elongate the holes in the tenon on the outside dowels. Center one should be tight. You can do this from the bottom of the end cap so the dowels are hidden.

Here is the end cap on my nephews bench. The holes are draw bored so it pulls the end cap on tight. No bolts required.


----------



## duckmilk

Good idea Paul, but he also wants the end cap to be easily removable, so as an alternative, he could use lag bolts from underneath in place of pegs. However, that would not have the tightening effect that drawboring offers.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Oh. Didn't notice that qualification. A question though, why does the end cap need to be removable?


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks guys for the ideas… In the short term I want it to be removable as I can forsee my wagon vise needing a bit of tweaking after the first installation, and long term for the possible upgrade to a wagon vise that actually works when I find out my idea was only half-baked…


----------



## duckmilk

Understood, most of us here are also half-baked ;-)


----------



## splatman

Half-baked is better than 7/16-baked. Ha ha


----------



## Hammerthumb

I take offense Duck. I have always considered myself fully baked.


----------



## Iguana

Jason - you can probably get away with 2 bolts per end cap, instead of 4. The cap is plenty strong and the tenon looks like it fits well so there is lots of support.

Can't remember what your top is made from - looks like cherry? If so, you can expect up to 1/2" seasonal swing across a 24" top if it is flatsawn (and 1/4" if quartersawn). In a high swing area and a space without any climate control. I have a cherry top on my 25" wide bench, and live in a fairly consistent climate, humidity-wise. My seasonal movement is something less than 1/16".

I did what you are contemplating - 3/8" bolt in a 1/2" hole. Works in this situation. Not sure if would in yours.

Something you might want to think about is that the hole only needs to be elongated horizontally. Don't drill aà 5/8" hole; drill 2×3/8" holes that overlap. I know, easier said than done. I'd be inclined to drill a 3/8" hole and pivot the drill bit to make the elongation. Or use a round file.

While barrel bolts would work, I used a straightforward nut and bolt arrangement. The barrel bolts are an easier install (just drill a hole). You and use a regular nut instead, by mortising a small cavity to house the nut. In both cases, to allow for seasonal movement, you elongate the hole through which the bolt shaft is fed. Well, both holes - in the end cap as well as the slab.


----------



## Brit

Splatman - Sneaky little correction there. LOL.

I like to think I'm fully baked, but usually turn out to be a bit doughy in the middle.


----------



## DanKrager

Fully baked might also mean crusty? LOL!

DanK


----------



## drcodfish

Jason - you and think differently. If this is the product of 'slow going' I shudder to think what would be if you were in 'fast forward' mode. Looks great and looks closer to done than started.


----------



## rwe2156

Finally done:


----------



## woodcox

Amazing rwe! I can see where you are going with that room and it will be awsome. Nice work.


----------



## ssnvet

That's a great looking traditional bench!


----------



## WillliamMSP

Sweet! Nice space, too.


----------



## Spelcher

That looks amazing rwe!

Thanks Mark. I was planning on 3 bolts plus the dovetail, but maybe I'll just do 2 instead… I think the wood is one of the types called mahogany, but I haven't positively identified it yet - it seems to be on the low end of the movement spectrum, but my shop sees extremes in moisture change. Thanks for the calculation - I was a bit confused trying to do it the way the lamination works, the pieces are between flat and rift sawn. I think it makes sense to allow for 1/2" at the end just to be safe, in which case 2 parallel holes connected with a bunch of work with a file sounds like the only way to do it.

Anyone have advice for drilling parallel holes into the end of the bench? I'm thinking drawing a sight line on the benchtop and frequent checking with a level with a cordless drill… I don't trust my accuracy with the brace yet for this task.

Thanks Dr C. It looks nearer to completion than it is - that's the old base, which will be relegated to a table or something. New one needs to be bigger and legs will be flush with front of bench.


----------



## Spelcher

Also- amazing shop space RWE! so much light!

But… isn't there something missing from your completed bench pics? Something on top of the bench?


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

RWE,

It's a good thing that I don't type with my jaw, as it's still on the floor. Fantastic!


----------



## splatman

> But… isn't there something missing from your completed bench pics? Something on top of the bench?
> 
> - Spelcher


Yup, it's missing a certain brand of auto body filler.


----------



## BikerDad

> Bikerdad:
> 
> The moment I saw your list of questions I immediately thought of me and how much I learned from The Workbench Design Book by Christopher Schwartz. When I built my bench about all I knew was that I liked those big honking benches and I wanted to build one. That book was gas on the fire.
> 
> I bought a new table saw, and a box of old planes, a bench grinder, a band saw and lots of other tools but the most useful and valuable tool I bought was that book. It is more than a how to build a bench" book it is wood worker reference material.
> 
> Though I am not big on the split top design, when I saw the Robert Lang bench (in the book) with those cool flippable boxes I have to admit I slowed down and had another look.
> 
> What I am sneaking up on here is that this place (LJ) is a great place to get information, but I think the cost of that book is some of the best money I spent in the process of building my bench. Consider getting one if you have not done so already.
> 
> - drcodfish


They weren't my questions, they were my answers. You are dead on correct regarding Schwarz's book. Your perspective tracks closely with my one and only review thus far here at LJ, , written 8 years ago. As far as Lang's flippable boxes go, 'tis very cool, but they come with most of the advantages and baggage as any tool trough. For me, the drawbacks outweighed the advantages, so I ended up putting the additional width into my front slab rather than into a central tool trough.


----------



## kiefer

*Finally done and done well I must add !*
The bench reminds me of the benches in my Uncles shop same style and the same vices but not nearly as nice with dovetails all over but then they where in use every day which took it's toll but also added character, oh how I miss those days and Uncle George .
I hope your shop has drool towels because you will need them for visitors it looks like the ultimate one can hope for .

Klaus


----------



## duckmilk

Nice shop rwe, and wood floors also!! Oh, I also love your bench, well done.
+1 on bondo pose, git er done! How about a fully baked pose?


----------



## rwe2156

Appreciate the compliments. If anyone is planning a build I can relate my experiences/mistakes might help someone.

I did major shop expansion/remodel a couple years ago and this room was a key part of it. It is 14×16 insulated and air conditioned so I can work in the summer. The rest of the shop is outside the room the studio is my "quiet space" (no power tools in there!) and I love it.

Just a couple things to finish it up (tool cabinet & bench slave).


----------



## DLK

The only real mistake is to not build a proper workbench. :-]


----------



## wflather

Workbench:
Am finishing up re-make of an antique bench I purchased at an auction, maybe 10 years ago. 
Thought I would re-use as much as I could, but careful review noted that the mortises in the legs were cracked, tenons fit loosely, rails bowed too much; 1/2 of the benchtop was a 4/4 board that has some serious warpage. 
Soooo, only original parts were 3.5" thick benchtop, outside leg vise and board jack. Original wood appears to be sycamore, the rest is silver maple from my property, except a sliver of walnut and ash. 
Original:









Almost finished; needs planing stop and dog holes:


----------



## CL810

Rw, beautiful bench and shop - can't decide which I like better.

Flather, that is a monster of a bench. Fits your space well. The splayed leg vise is wicked cool.

And the wood floors, oh my, lustful feelings make me feel like I need to apologize for staring.


----------



## Spelcher

Wflather, That's a great looking bench with some history too! I love that you used silver maple from your property. How long did you allow it to dry? Are both sides of the top sycamore? The colours look a little different in a very cool way.

Rwe, please post your tool cabinet and bench slave when you get around to them.

I feel the same way as CL about the wood floors, though I'd never admit it in public…


----------



## wflather

Spelcher- 1/2 of the top is sycamore, the other is silver maple. Each is 16" wide and after planing flat about 3.25" thick. I had it kiln dried locally and it sat for about 3 years anyway. Each slab had about a 5/8" twist that had to be planed out, making an impressive pile of shavings. 
Original bench was 10 ft long (!), way too long for my work space sadly. Cut it down to 7.5 ft. Plenty of work space. thought seriously about dying the silver maple top to match the base, but heck, it's a workbench, and won't live in my house. It will get used hard and beat up a lot over the years so I passed up on fancy dovetailed breadboard ends. I didn't see the need for them and having to deal with seasonal wood movement. Justification for being lazy. It's rock solid. 
Wood floors are t&g 2×8s, rubbed with 4-5 coats of turpentine, linseed oil and some varnish. Space is in one of the bays of our barn. Sure wish it was larger.


----------



## Handtooler

Ultra nice. wfather


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

Very nice bench wfather, long benches are great unless you have to walk around them much.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

wflather - seriously cool workbench. I agree with CL810 - that leg vice is awesome.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

Workbench Update:

My bench is starting to look like a bench. Still a lot of work left, but it's exciting to see some progress!

Today, I routed out the bench dog strip.



















I took a picture of the part of the top, arranged together. Nothing has been done to the gap stop portion, but the rest is pretty much ready to go. 4 1/16" at this point. The gap stop and bench dog strip are both cherry. The rest of the top is soft maple, except the front laminate will be a piece of hard maple.










And the obligatory clamp shot: Front slab glue up (the front laminate is being used for a caul, but isn't part of the glue up.


----------



## TheFridge

That is a purty thang you got goin on bud.


----------



## onoitsmatt

Have been following this thread regularly for about 6 or 7 months now. Delighted to see a rally of bench photos lately after a bit of a drought!

Looking for some input. It is getting hot again here in Phoenix and I'm thinking about building an outdoor bench to get a few extra months at the front and back end of the hot weather season.

It will sit on a patio on the east side of the house where it will get evening shade.

What are the logistics of this? Cedar seems too light. Redwood seems like a better choice. Doug fir is plentiful and cheap here if there are good finish options to protect it. What glue to use, vise hardware, etc.

It seems like logistically it is a terrible idea but not impossible.

Thoughts? Any insight or experience you can share would be appreciated.

Thanks as always!


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

post edited


----------



## Spelcher

Wflather, I love the contrast of the two-species top. I also just noticed the asymmetrical trestle base that allows the front edge legs to be flush with the front - very cool!

Looking nice, Bulldog!

Matt, have you considered black locust? It's apparently very decay resistant, and is hard, heavy and nice to work… Not sure what availability is like in AZ but it grows like a weed in a lot of places. It's often used in place of cedar for fenceposts etc.


----------



## wflather

Matt, Seems like you probably don't get enough rain for wood rot to be a huge issue? I think a lot of benches are built with doug fir. whatever wood you choose, I would look for boards as close to rift or quarter sawn as possible. I'd think that direct sun would tend to warp plain sawn boards. Gluing up the top with multiple strips would also help prevent warpage. Tightbond III is supposed to be waterproof. Another consideration would be to use threaded rod accross the top and base sections, then you can tighten up the whole assembly if the wood shrinks and sections get loose. 
It's easy to thread steel plate to make strong captured nuts.


----------



## onoitsmatt

Thanks for the input on outdoor benches. Will look for black locust tho have never seen it locally, it sounds like a good option.

Dry rot shouldn't be an issue, though mention of it reminds me I may need to worry about termites as they are rampant here in Phoenix.


----------



## drcodfish

Matt:

Bugs was my first thought, given your environment I would think that movement from changes in humidity would be a minor consideration. I live in the Pacific NW, we have enough rani that an outside bench wouldn't make sense, but I have lived in Southern AZ so I know that heat is the major environmental factor there. Since (it sounds like) this won't be you primary bench I would be inclined to save a little money by building the bench out of DF. If you built it of 2X6 it should be stout and given your lack of dramatic changes in humidity and given your lack of change in humidity I think movement of the wood is a minor consideration.

I built my bench top with locally milled hard maple and the frame with DF. I finished the whole thing with multiple coats of Waterlox. I really like the stuff and I think it would help you with both your exposure to weather and as a guard against termites.


----------



## BikerDad

> Have been following this thread regularly for about 6 or 7 months now. Delighted to see a rally of bench photos lately after a bit of a drought!
> 
> Looking for some input. It is getting hot again here in Phoenix and I m thinking about building an outdoor bench to get a few extra months at the front and back end of the hot weather season.
> 
> It will sit on a patio on the east side of the house where it will get evening shade.
> 
> What are the logistics of this? Cedar seems too light. Redwood seems like a better choice. Doug fir is plentiful and cheap here if there are good finish options to protect it. What glue to use, vise hardware, etc.
> 
> It seems like logistically it is a terrible idea but not impossible.
> 
> Thoughts? Any insight or experience you can share would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks as always!
> 
> - onoitsmatt


Primarily a power tool bench, or hand tool? If the former, I would simply make it out of 2-4 layers of plywood/MDO (outdoor rated) with a Douglas Fir / SYP substructure/base. If the latter, other than a dog hole strip of Ipe, I'd likely take the same approach. If, after a season, you've found the top isn't good for hand tool work, just laminate a top out of either DF or Ipe. Hell, keep an eye out and you'd probably be able to find a glue-lam that you can use to make the top. The main drawback to Douglas Fir for a bench top is the softness of the early (or is it late?) wood. Your dogholes will wallow out much easier than they would in a more consistently hard wood.

As far as finish goes, minimize exposure to direct sunlight, and use something designed for decks, or you could even go so far as painting the base with a good exterior grade paint. After the first few months, less if you give the wood time to dry fully, UV will be the main concern.

For glue, just bolt the base together, the Sam Allen book has a good basic bench in it. The only glue would be in the top, I suspect that any common wood glue will do the trick as long as the bench isn't exposed to significant water. For vises, whatever works for ya, although hot vise handles may be something to consider.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

Update time!


----------



## TheFridge

Joinery lookin good Tim. Hopefully I'll be able to check it out in person one day


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

I don't think there is any clamping left to do! I present to you the split top turtle bench. It's starting to resemble a bench, and that's pretty exciting. I can't lie, this project is way outside of my skill level (thank goodness for my buddy). It's also a mind boggling amount of work, but I've learned so much during each step of the process.


----------



## CL810

It lives!


----------



## dbray45

I don't know - feet up and on its back!


----------



## CL810

Ha!


----------



## theoldfart

Careful when you flip it, lotta stress on the leg/top joinery.


----------



## TheFridge

Super jelly


----------



## DLK

I would at least temporarily attach cross braces between the legs before flipping. But perhaps the legs are only in a dry fit and the plan will be to finish the base first before flipping. This will be a nightmare of trying to get the stretchers to fit properly if the legs have already been morticed in, but still doable.


----------



## Spelcher

Beautiful! That went together incredibly fast. Awesome work.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> I would at least temporarily attach cross braces between the legs before flipping. But perhaps the legs are only in a dry fit and the plan will be to finish the base first before flipping. This will be a nightmare of trying to get the stretchers to fit properly if the legs have already been morticed in, but still doable.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Legs are dry fitted at this time.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> Joinery lookin good Tim. Hopefully I ll be able to check it out in person one day
> 
> - TheFridge


You deserve a break. You should come up and teach me some more stuff.


----------



## TheFridge

One day bud. I wanna see that hoss.


----------



## Spelcher

Anyone installed a BC Crisscross on legs narrower than 5" without giant Roubo-style dovetail tenons? Without mixing species and wasting a bunch of wood, I think I can get legs 4.5" x 4.5" with the wood I have.

The required 1 3/4 width mortise for the Crisscross would mean only 1 3/8 meat on either side of the mortise and I'm wondering if that might be a bit less than ideal (the Benchcrafted Roubo plans call for 5 3/8×3.5" legs)

I plan on permanently attaching the short side rails, but attaching the front and back long rails with bench bolts for disassembly. I'm thinking by making my legs an extra 1" deep, I should have more room available for the tenons with the bench bolts behind the Criscross mortise.

I am leaning toward attaching the top with blind tenons.

Trying to get my base figured out this weekend so I can start milling the wood on Monday


----------



## CL810

Jason, I have the criss cross and the leg is 4-7/8" wide and 4-1/2" deep. You can see pics of it here. I've had no issues with the performance of the vise.


----------



## drcodfish

Clayton:

I just took a peek; what a beautiful piece of work. Those bench crafted items really ad to the over all effect of your bench.


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks Clayton,
Your bench has definitely been an inspiration throughout planning mine. Thanks for giving me the leg dimensions- they looked bigger… I feel a bit better now about going with 4.5" width. Because I'm going to forego the big dovetail tenons on top of the legs, I feel like the joinery with the rails on mine will be a lot more important to resist racking.


----------



## bandit571

Seen today @ Menards in Lima OH…...1.75" by 18" x 10' glue-lam plank…....came back as a Return….$58.00 and change, sold as is…..


----------



## CL810

Thanks guys. I wish I was doing what you're doing, nothing better than a bench build….


----------



## Iguana

Spelcher,

I built my Roubo similar to what you are looking to do. I can't remember the leg dimensions, but they are larger than 5" square. With a BC Crisscross. As long as the wood you use is of reasonable strength, I can't see where a 4.5" width would be an issue. I went to some trouble to work out the joinery for attaching the front rail behind the Crisscross mortise, and 4.5" would work just fine in that dimension, too.

My project post is here, and it links to the build blog as well as a detailed SketchUp model.

I also have fixed side leg/rail assemblies with knockdown fasteners for the front and rear stretchers. And no dovetail/tenon to hold the top to the bottom. Instead, I used simple mortise and tenon joinery to hold the top to the top on the bottom, no glue necessary.


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks Mark! The sketchup model really helps to visualize it, and thanks for your super detailed construction blog - I'm sure that helped a lot of people avoid mistakes in building their benches. That bench looks amazing. It's one of the few I've seen that allows for wood movement in the top, which is a huge concern for me as I see huge humidity swings in my shop. I had thought about the differing tenon orientation between front and back legs like that and wondered why I hadn't seen anyone doing that… Do you think the double-tenons help much for resisting wracking, or would single blind tenons be fine in that application (I need to make the top removable).

I also love the sliding deadman design - having a cleat on the back of the deadman to slide on the bottom rail instead of a groove on the bottom of the deadman means I can save some lumber in avoiding a thick lamination on the bottom rail bringing it flush with the front of the legs, while moving the tenons back to avoid the crisscross mortise like in the BC plans.

I was thinking of having the first dog-hole for my wagon vise spaced very closely like yours is (in your sketchup model it shows 1" from the end of the traveller cavity), which also doesn't seem to be commonly done. I thought that would be handy for clamping short/narrow things - do you find you ever use the first dog hole?


----------



## drcodfish

though my workbench is completely different form Keith Ruckers, I learned a ton reading his description posted here.


----------



## theoldfart

Take note of Timmy 2 Hand bench build 


Finally getting time to make a few bench appliances, a planing stop


















wedged dowell









works good


----------



## Spelcher

Great idea on the wedged dowel Kevin. Thanks for the link to Tim's bench build. Very impressive hand tool only bench…


----------



## mramseyISU

I added one of those pop-up planing stops this weekend to my bench. I haven't done much with it yet but I seems pretty handy. I picked up from Lee Valley when I ordered a couple other things. I think it took about an hour to install.


----------



## Spelcher

Nice looking plane stop.

I remember seeing a page on this thread with peoples' experience with leg vise screw height below the top surface of the bench, but can't seem to find it.

Anyone else care to share their thoughts on leg vise screw height? I seem to remember reading that a few people like 8" below the top surface, but in Chris Shwarz's book he recommends 11", and the SolidWorks split top Roubo plan that Benchcrafted made available shows it at 11 3/4".

I'm leaning more toward 8.5" at the moment as I have a bad back, but has anyone found that more depth is better?


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

Mr. Ramsey that plane stop looks cool!

Here are some updated pics, I posted a few in a different thread but I'll repost them here.

Dry Fit:









My mortises look weird due to some router burn marks, but they are rectangular and pretty good if I must say so myself! Hardware being added. So far everything is fitting together well.









It's starting to feel real:









Progress being made on the leg vise:


----------



## Iguana

Spelcher,

My bench doesn't wrack. I can't say how much of that is due to the tenons between the legs and top, and how much is due to the joinery for the base. Probably a mix, but biased to the base construction.

My top is also removable. Doesn't matter if you use single or double tenons.

I do use the first dog hole. I think the reason you don't see it very often is because it is located over the leg, which means doing some careful layout to have the row of dog holes fit between the double tenons on the leg. Plus you need to cut a spot in the leg to access the dog. If you go the single tenon approach, you'll still need to ensure the dog hole row doesn't interfere with the tenon location.


----------



## Iguana

Spelcher:

I put my vise screw as low as possible without interfering with the Crisscross. Don't know exactly what that is, but there are many times I wish it was lower still.

Bulldog:

Looking good!


----------



## jmartel

Spelcher, I believe I put mine at 10". There's times where that gets in the way and I wish I had put it lower. The lower you put it the less holding power it has, but the more room it gives you. Holding power on a leg vise usually isn't an issue, though. You can usually clamp something in there and lift the entire bench up by that piece being clamped.


----------



## theoldfart

And another bench appliance. Glue is still drying then trim flush.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> Thanks Clayton,
> 
> - Spelcher


Clayton. CL810. I just pieced this together. I are smart.


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks guys, I don't know where I heard 8" below benchtop recommended for leg vise screw height, but it sounds like more is better, so I adjusted the design to 10" below.

Bulldog - you're a machine! That thing is a beauty.

Kevin, that looks cool, but I can't figure out what it is?


----------



## theoldfart

Jason, it does a couple of tasks. It helps in planing thin stock and narrow thin stock. The v shaped thing is a birds mouth and is used in edge planing thin stock. I'll post pics tonight.


----------



## CL810

Dang, now I gotta get a new code name! ;-)


----------



## drcodfish

"Kevin, that looks cool, but I can't figure out what it is?"

+1 for me. Generally speaking, the more completely a thing baffles me, the more ingenious it is. So this must be off the chart as I have not a clue.


----------



## bandit571

Planning Stop. If you then remove the white triangle, narrow pieces can be held and planned. Couple taps with a mallet to set things in tight, is all you need.


----------



## theoldfart

Spelcher and Dr. C, here you go. Bandit had it right.








You can edge plane thin stock like this, just by tapping the wedges in, it locks the stock. To remove you just tap the stock back.








For face planing narrow thin stock there is a side stop. For wider stuff just remove the side stop.









All this comes from an article in the December 2008 Fine Woodworking by Norm Pirollo. I also used his design for my shoot board.


----------



## drcodfish

Nice, like one of those pictures where you can't see the old lady's face and then you turn it and then you can. I can see it now, thanks.


----------



## Spelcher

Cool!


----------



## Hammerthumb

> Dang, now I gotta get a new code name! ;-)
> 
> - CL810


Don't change your code name, just wear a different hat, and a pair of sunglasses.


----------



## theoldfart

^ and maybe smoke a pipe! Get one from Terry.


----------



## CL810

Man, Terry's pipes are definitely smoke worthy. But I need another vice like I need a hole in the head!


----------



## johnstoneb

CL810, Is that vice or vise.


----------



## terryR

never enough vices,


----------



## terryR

.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I gonna have to get me one of those terryR pipes. I'll use it while using my terryR saw!


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

Update: My bench has finally learned to stand.










I think the sliding deadman looks a little bulky, so I may shape it out some. I also need to taper and chamfer the leg chop.

What's a good finish that won't turn the maple yellow?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Very nice Bulldog!


----------



## WillliamMSP

Looking good!


----------



## DLK

Looks good. BTW I have found that I wished I had one more hole in my sliding deadman closer to the top, but you can add that later should you want one.


----------



## Spelcher

Looks beautiful! I find tung oil doesn't yellow maple as much as linseed.


----------



## CL810

That's a great bench Bulldog!


----------



## drcodfish

My bench top is western maple and I used Waterlox, a tung oil based product, but it results in a hard finish which some folks don't like. I'm very happy with it.


----------



## TheFridge

What taught your bench to stand BD?

A forklift


----------



## rad457

Ya can never have too many holes! I used BLO and no yellowing.


----------



## BikerDad

> Anyone else care to share their thoughts on leg vise screw height? I seem to remember reading that a few people like 8" below the top surface, but in Chris Shwarz s book he recommends 11", and the SolidWorks split top Roubo plan that Benchcrafted made available shows it at 11 3/4".
> 
> I m leaning more toward 8.5" at the moment as I have a bad back, but has anyone found that more depth is better?
> 
> - Spelcher


The depth is a trade off between ease of reach, and clamping area. The more clamping area you've got, the lower the screw goes. Oh, there's one more factor: The leg vise handle/wheel is going to be sticking out and attempting to whack ya as you go by. At the extremes, the difference in leg vise screw height are taking one in the nards or getting kneecapped.

Do not be too eager to get more clamping area. I was, and as a result my screw is a bit lower than I would prefer.


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks BD. How low below the top surface did you end up putting the screw?


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> Anyone else care to share their thoughts on leg vise screw height? I seem to remember reading that a few people like 8" below the top surface, but in Chris Shwarz s book he recommends 11", and the SolidWorks split top Roubo plan that Benchcrafted made available shows it at 11 3/4".
> 
> I m leaning more toward 8.5" at the moment as I have a bad back, but has anyone found that more depth is better?
> 
> - Spelcher
> 
> The depth is a trade off between ease of reach, and clamping area. The more clamping area you ve got, the lower the screw goes. Oh, there s one more factor: The leg vise handle/wheel is going to be sticking out and attempting to whack ya as you go by. At the extremes, the difference in leg vise screw height are taking one in the nards or getting kneecapped.
> 
> Do not be too eager to get more clamping area. I was, and as a result my screw is a bit lower than I would prefer.
> 
> - BikerDad


The nards or the kneecaps? I'm in a long term relationship and don't have kids yet, so I'd obviously choose to get whacked in the nards. I barely get to use the things and when I do it's pretty nerve wracking.


----------



## kiefer

JASON 
My spindle is at 13 1/2" from the top of the bench and works fine with the wheel having the knobs on the edge of the hand wheel .Now consider your height and mock up the height of the spindle and see where it is at a good height for you .

Klaus


----------



## DLK

Never liked the hand wheel idea, because it means that the knobs will always be sticking out and hitting my leg.
The "stick" (or tee) can always be positioned (because of the flex in the leg vise) so it hangs straight down parallel to the vise leg and is out of the way. This however means it should be positioned so that you can easily reach the spindle where the then end of the stick will be. This means spindle should be positioned a little less then 1/3 of the way between bench top and floor. (Presuming bench is made proportional to your height.) Bench height is also in general a difficult decision. Too high and its difficult to plane too low and joinery is difficult. Me I just followed what ever Chris Schwarz said in his book. (It maybe be now the only thing I agree with Schwarz on.) If I had to do it all over again … well I probably do it the same way, because I really like my leg vise …. but I sure do like a good face vise too … particularly the way Paul sellers uses it. Good features with both but you cannot install both on the same side of the bench.

Incidentally I like to have some spring in the leg vise and think people make them too beefy and hence too stiff and heavy. Mine is made from ~1.5 inch thick cherry and works great.


----------



## BikerDad

> Update: My bench has finally learned to stand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the sliding deadman looks a little bulky, so I may shape it out some. I also need to taper and chamfer the leg chop.
> 
> What s a good finish that won t turn the maple yellow?
> 
> - BulldogLouisiana


Looks good there BD, from another BD. A good non-yellowing finish is waterbase acrylics. MinWax Polycrylic is easy to find, pretty easy to apply. Lacquer also is minimal on the yellowing front.


----------



## BikerDad

> Thanks BD. How low below the top surface did you end up putting the screw?
> 
> - Spelcher


Ahhh, see, THAT was my problem. I was thinking in terms of "below the top surface" rather than "above the floor." This matters because your body's reference point is the floor, not the benchtop. Using my below the benchtop distance assumes that you and I have the same height and ape index, an unlikely eventuality.

I suspect that a good way to fit the bench to you would be to wander around the house and find every drawer between knee level and waist level, then work them in and out. Grab the drawer by the top, handle (if it has one) and bottom. You'll get a sense of what a good height for YOU is, when you have to bend and when you don't. Another way of testing would be if you have a regular machinist/bench vise that's not hard mounted. Put it on a board, then clamp the board at various heights and work the screw in and out. Cranking something isn't a normal part of most 21st century First Worlder's daily routine, so experimentation is a good idea. The closer the swing (radius) of whatever you're testing with to the real thing, the better. There's a lot of effort that goes into fitting the vise, 'tis best to take a course that optimizes fit for YOU.

It may seem like I've given this a lot of thought, and I have. AFTER I chased the maximum clamping area and put my screw too low.


----------



## Spelcher

Great advice guys


----------



## rad457

I find that we all adapt, when making my bench I spent way too many hours thinking about the perfect height! Turns out I do not make the same thing every time I use the Bench, everything on it is at a different height! So unless you only use the bench to smooth the same thickness of board the height is a variable that is always changing. The same logic is to some extent is true for your handle height? Just my rant for the day. (so far)


----------



## kiefer

I just posted a proto type bench /front vise with an anti racking feature along with a link to a video that shows the vise operation and how the anti racking device works . 
Take a look and let me know what you think .














Klaus


----------



## ToddJB

Klaus, this is super cool. Awesome functionality. But I don't have a good feel for how the screw nut functions, or how the anti-locking screws are tightening down.


----------



## kiefer

Todd
Sorry I did not mention that the two square tubes are connected at the back and the screws are going into nuts welded inside the tubes .

Klaus


----------



## ToddJB

So the bolts though the bottom hold the square bar to the chop, then there is a nuts welded in the end of the bar that the knob tightens to, and the back of the bar is just locking in place by friction by begin surround on 3 sides, right?


----------



## kiefer

Todd the square tubes are connected to each other at the back.

Klaus


----------



## ToddJB

Ah, that makes more sense to me. Cool!


----------



## Mikel46526

*Wow!!*

Cannot believe I've finally read clear through this thread. Probably should have jumped in sooner. But I was years behind, and didn't really want to skip ahead. Unfortunately it does seem we've lost some active posters along the way. I hope they will pop back in occasionally in the future.

I was looking for ideas when I started in on this thread, and now the build is done. Time to post up some pics. Thanks to Christopher Shwartz and all the Lumberjocks I've quietly stolen ideas from along the way.

*Here she is…*

Maple and cherry
87" long
34" tall
23" deep
3" top



















I used Jim Ritter's chain kit. Fantastic!










I'm very happy with the bench.

It was a great experience to build…
but I'm sure glad that it's done now.

It's time to make some furniture.


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## TheFridge

All of these sweet benches make me want to build another before I've "officially" finished mine.


----------



## splatman

> *Wow!!*
> 
> Cannot believe I've finally read clear through this thread. Probably should have jumped in sooner. But I was years behind, and didn't really want to skip ahead. Unfortunately it does seem we ve lost some active posters along the way. I hope they will pop back in occasionally in the future.
> 
> - Mikel Marker


Now you just need to post a recap like I did when I read the thread.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Holy ish, Mike, awesome build! Much to like, looks great! Someone is gonna demand a Bondo pose though. And congrats (or sympathy) on reading the whole thread!


----------



## CL810

That's one fine bench Mike! Flat out beautiful.

And since you've read the whole thread you know the rule, it's Bondo time.


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## Hammerthumb

Beautiful bench Mike!


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## Mikel46526

> That s one fine bench Mike! Flat out beautiful.
> 
> And since you ve read the whole thread you know the rule, it s Bondo time.
> 
> - CL810


Thanks so much… but I'm not much for rules.


----------



## duckmilk

Great bench Mike. I also read the whole thread before joining LJ's, but that was almost 2 years ago.

Thanks so much… but I'm not much for rules.

Not even with a blue wig???


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## theoldfart

Bondo, Bondo, Bondo.
Awesome bench sir.


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## Iguana

^ what he said.


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## TheFridge

I am such a stef….


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## BulldogLouisiana

> I am such a stef….
> 
> - TheFridge


It's hard to spot your own weaknesses. It's even more difficult to acknowledge them. Kudos.


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## kiefer

Great bench Mike.
Love the pictures you attached ,a nice presentation .

Klaus


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## Mikel46526

Thanks, Kiefer. Thanks to everyone for the compliments on my bench and for the contributions to this thread. It's been a lot of fun following along. I'll post some details of the trials and tribulations of my bench build sometime down the road. I'm off for a week long class at Marc Adams early *early* in the morning. Cheers


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## Spelcher

Beauty bench Mikel, and super cool vise Klaus - you are a very inspiring innovator!

I'm preparing for a 2-day blitz this weekend. Hopefully I'll have a progress update soon. Arm is sore from making mortises last night…


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## BulldogLouisiana

> Beauty bench Mikel, and super cool vise Klaus - you are a very inspiring innovator!
> 
> I m preparing for a 2-day blitz this weekend. Hopefully I ll have a progress update soon. Arm is sore from making mortises last night…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Spelcher


Looking great!


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## CL810

A Beast



> - Spelcher


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## kiefer

Thanks Jason
You are making good progress but remember haste makes waste !

Klaus


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## TheFridge

Finally done

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/254978


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## rad457

> Finally done
> 
> http://lumberjocks.com/projects/254978
> 
> - TheFridge


Thanks for not posting those Pic's here, might scare some us more delicate types! Bench and under storage are great and ideas being copied as I type!


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## Spelcher

Nice one Fridge! It like a beautiful giant puzzle. I can't quit figure out what's going on with the anti-wracking jig… And that bondo pose really takes the cake. You need to look at the pictures to the side a bit, instead of directly at them, kind of like looking at the sun.

A bit more progress last night - 3 more mortises to go in the top and some fine tuning - then it's time to play with leg vise installation…

Even though I chickened out and hogged most out with a forstner bit on the drill press, my arms are more sore today from fitting mortises than they get after climbing and taking down a 130' Douglas-fir. Sounds like I need to work on technique…


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks guys

Spelcher, the brass rod hits the face of the end vise and the leg.

At the leg, it passes through a hex nut. The handle bolt goes through a threaded hole on the side of the nut.

So when the handle is tightened it acts like a set screw and the nut is essentially locked onto the rod.

So the chop pushes the rod and the rod pushes the locked down nut against the leg and prevents that side of the chop from moving.

Most of my work is on the opposite side (left) of the vise so it works great for me.


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## Spelcher

Ah, now I understand - impressive! That sounds like a slick system. Looks like the big handle would make it super convenient to operate.


----------



## WillliamMSP

That's looking beautiful Spelcher!


----------



## TheFridge

It works very well. The only negative is that the brass rod is getting dimpled from over tightening it and it takes a twist to get it moving but otherwise it really does a fine job.


----------



## drcodfish

Jason:

Will those be blind tenons or will they come all the way through the top? really a great looking bench.


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## revrok

Andy - CL810 asked me to post my leg vise on here that I previously posted on "Vises of Your Dreams." I have just copied what I said over there. The pics are not high rez, but should show. I will get some better ones when I post my bench project. BTW, the tool cabinet is separate and may actually be a project before my bench is. It is wheeled and I use spacer boards to elevate the bench on top of it so I can roll both where needed.

I was pretty bummed about my vise and bench possibilities because of the cost of dedicated vise hardware until I saw Dema's video and made my own! 




He has an Etsy store where you can get a nice set up pre-built from him. The scaffold screw cost me about $25 on Amazon, other than glue and some small bits of hardware there was no other cost. I made my chop from recycled oak and my handle and epoxied endcap on my lathe. For the rest I followed the way he did it in the video. I have wanted a leg vise for a long time… So Simple… Worked out great! After I oiled the mechanism I have been surprised and pleased by how fast and smooth it is.









Here is a front shot of my English style bench with the vise. Total cost of the bench is about $75 All but one board is salvage. Have parts but not quite finished with my wagon vise. Will post it here and bench in projects when done. Sorry about the parallax in this shot.


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks guys. This morning was productive again until I didn't heed Kiefer's advice - haste makes waste.

Mortises in the top went super smoothly and then a dramatic yardsale when flipping the top. A couple dents on the edges and in the corner - my shin looked about the same….

Requisite upside down turtle shot:









Dented corner:









Then the really hasty wasteful part - Resawing the laminated leg vise chop to save 5/8" of stock, I did some sloppy sawing and didn't notice the cupping in the blade - Upon dissection, I noticed my attempted 2 3/4" chop is 2 3/8" in the middle - and the instructions that came with the Benchcrafted Crisscross tell me I need at least 2 1/2" thick chop stock. 









Probably a sign that I need a day off - time to look for some more wood for the chop…


----------



## kiefer

*Bummer*
Take a day of and think about how you can fix it ,it's not the end of the world or your bench .

Klaus


----------



## Spelcher

Yep - pretty minor thing, just have to find some more wood now.

Forgot to answer your question Dr C… They are 2" blind tenons that will be sucked down by two lags in each top rail. Back mortises are oversized front to back 3/32 on each end.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

Looking good spelcher! The dent just adds a little character. I'm nearly done with my bench. Just need to choose a finish and apply. Then Bondo and go.


----------



## CL810

Tim, how many turns of the scaffold screw to move your chop an inch?

Some great benches are wrapping up. Can't wait to see them in use.

Bulldog, were you talking about shaping your deadman or was it someone else? Did you decide on anything?


----------



## drcodfish

Jason;

Sounds good, through tendon's are pretty cool looking as well as functional but given my level of wood working expertise I chose not to employ through tenons, now a couple years later it is just as solid as the concrete floor it stands on.

As for the dings, those blemishes, mistakes whatever you call them are the first things that come to mind when you enter your shop but bring a guest to see your handiwork and I guarantee that unless you point them out those people will never notice them.

It now looks like a bench and when I reached this stage I was constantly holding the horses back, knowing that there are 'just a few more steps' left to finish it. I find now that I am making boxes I deliberately slow down the closer I get to done, similar to building a house of cards. Your bench is going to look terrific once it is done.


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## BulldogLouisiana

> Tim, how many turns of the scaffold screw to move your chop an inch?
> 
> Some great benches are wrapping up. Can t wait to see them in use.
> 
> Bulldog, were you talking about shaping your deadman or was it someone else? Did you decide on anything?
> 
> - CL810


That was me. Haven't decided anything yet.


----------



## CL810

Regarding yellowing of maple over time….

I applied just one coat of Watco's Danish Oil and let it soak in for about 30 minutes to my bench. I've always thought that the blo in Danish Oil was what darkened the maple and I can't say that I've noticed a change. Having said that, since I'm partially color blind (red-green) I really don't pay a lot of attention to colors. lol Anyway, here's a pic of a maple block with no finish on top of my very dirty bench. Can't believe I sanded it down and refinished it last year. I need to clean things up!


----------



## TheFridge

Spelcher, at least you didn't run a track saw through the edge of your chop like I did.

I could've punched a baby at that moment in time.


----------



## Spelcher

Ouch! With a good lawyer, they probably would have let you off, given the circumstances.

Just got an email back from Jameel at Benchcrafted, and he said I'll be fine with 2 3/8" for the Crisscross. I can't say enough good things about those guys - besides making incredibly nice hardware, they've been really helpful with design questions.

That just saved me a whole bunch of nice lumber. Babies were never at risk, but I might have punched a hole in the bandsaw otherwise.


----------



## revrok

> Tim, how many turns of the scaffold screw to move your chop an inch?
> - CL810


Andy- pretty aggressive… About two per inch.
- Tim


----------



## Mosquito

> Spelcher, at least you didn t run a track saw through the edge of your chop like I did.
> 
> - TheFridge


Or Mauricio, who ran a circular saw right across the top of his bench


----------



## Mosquito

> I blame power tools, plywood, and beer… No beer is ok, it's the first two that are the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mauricio


----------



## kiefer

> Spelcher, at least you didn t run a track saw through the edge of your chop like I did.
> 
> - TheFridge
> 
> Or Mauricio, who ran a circular saw right across the top of his bench
> 
> - Mosquito


Two design opportunities or warning signs 
Klaus


----------



## Spelcher

I would have paid a bunch of money to hear the creative words that were said after that cut 

Mauricio's bench is super nice - it was one of my biggest inspirations in designing mine…


----------



## drcodfish

These real world examples of 'oops on steroids" are giving me a chuckle. I know it must be painful to share the evidence but things like this make it a little easier to forgive myself when I'm in the stupid seat. Perhaps a thread which features these mega-mistakes is in order.

I don't have a pic to show but there was the time I was boring 3/4" dog holes in my vise chop you know getting close to done! I was paying so much attention to assure the holes were perfectly vertical and spaced exactly the same distance from the center line that I…. hit the screw holding the chop to the vice plate dead square; $45 precision bit (Onsrud) now a curio on the shelf above the heater stove, Oh yes these were the first two holes I bored in the bench top; 45 miles one way to the nearest shop which carried these special bits. Dumb-da-dumb-dumb.


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## Spelcher

It moves just like in the videos! I spend about an hour afterwards just spinning it open and closed….


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## theoldfart

^ been there, done that again and again and again. You say to yourself, damn, the thing really works. I didn't screw it up.

Good looking vise install.


----------



## kiefer

One step closer Jason.
Now get on with the rest of it but take your time and stop spinning the thing you are going to wear it out before you know it .

Klaus


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> It moves just like in the videos! I spend about an hour afterwards just spinning it open and closed….
> 
> - Spelcher


Only an hour? It's so mesmerizing.


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks guys!

Kiefer - good advice on wearing out the vise prematurely - I'll have to schedule spinning sessions so I don't overdo it…


----------



## Spelcher

I want to decide on the design of the sliding deadman today, but have some trepidation… I really like the Benchcrafted design as it appears to allow you to just lift and cant the deadman out of the groove to install and remove it, without having a gap in the track at one end so that you get a bit more range of motion with it. I'd like mine to be easily removable.

On the BC plans they indicate a 3/4" groove on the underside of the top that is 1 1/2" deep, and just 3/4" in from the front edge. When I look at these dimensions on my benchtop, it looks like that 3/4" flap of top at the front edge would be prone to break (scenarios: overclamping with a bar clamp on the front edge, bumping the front of the bench when moving heavy lumber or a machine on casters, or maybe even levering out the deadman tenon).

Has anyone done a similar install and had anything horrible happen?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The deadman on my bench works the way you describe, and was done per the instructions in the Schwarz "Blue" Workbenches book. There is a deep dado on the underside of the benchtop, yes, but it might be set back from the front edge a bit more than 3/4". You can get away with that by using a thicker deadman.

Nothing horrible has happened, and I'm not worried about such a possibility.


----------



## donwilwol

Although I agree with Smitty, if worried you could add a replaceable cleat instead of cutting a Grove, then it could be replace if such an incident happened.


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks guys - I moved the dado back to 7/8 from the front edge, which feels a bit safer, and think I'll only make it an inch or so deep. I think I could get away with a 1/2" wide dado and a 7/16 deadman tenon. I'd rather crack the tenon on the deadman than the front edge of the benchtop…


----------



## DanKrager

Jointing going on preparing some adjustable workbench legs. Finally get to use some of that thick hedge wood…this rebuild has been on the wish list for a long time. 









The top part of the legs ready for next step. This could be a long drawn out affair…I'm expecting a couple quotes to materialize, but it sure would be nice to have an adjustable height bench to work them! My back will be very grateful.









DanK


----------



## murrayintokyo

Hello Bench lovers !!

I completed my bench and wanted to share (yeah, and brag a bit).
Its small Douglas Fir bench squeezed into my bathroom workshop. No metal at all (except the vice hardware) and uses mortise/tenons and wedges so that it can be broken down and moved.










There is a more complete write up and more pictures on my project post "Tokyo Toilet Workbench" if you are interested!! (yes, thats a bathtub on the left)

I love all the benches here!!! I took a lot of inspiration from this group when I was working on mine! Thanks


----------



## DanKrager

Nice bench, Murray. I'll be this is one of the only woodworking benches in the world where one has to clear the toiletries before using the bench….! 

DanK


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> Hello Bench lovers !!
> 
> I completed my bench and wanted to share (yeah, and brag a bit).
> Its small Douglas Fir bench squeezed into my bathroom workshop. No metal at all (except the vice hardware) and uses mortise/tenons and wedges so that it can be broken down and moved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a more complete write up and more pictures on my project post "Tokyo Toilet Workbench" if you are interested!! (yes, thats a bathtub on the left)
> 
> I love all the benches here!!! I took a lot of inspiration from this group when I was working on mine! Thanks
> 
> - murrayintokyo


Looks great. This is a whole new area for multitasking that I hadn't even considered.


----------



## murrayintokyo

You can see the plug under the bench from where I capped off the toilet….

I did consider leaving the toilet…. If I added a mini-fridge as well, I would never have any need to leave the shop !!!


----------



## duckmilk

Nicely executed Murray. Interesting way to join the legs to the top.


----------



## Spelcher

Beauty Murray! Is anyone else not able to Murray's image in this thread - I could only see the bench in the project post… 
I'd love to see a detail of the leg to top joinery. Is Douglas-fir hard to come by in Japan?

Looks interesting Dan, I can't wait to see how you put the adjustable mechanism together. What is the hedge wood?


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## DLK

I can not see it.


----------



## splatman

Murray must be in the bathroom using his new bench, because all I see is a gray Do Not Enter sign.


----------



## revrok

Hmmm, most guys read when in the bathroom… Be careful with those chisels! Nice bench BTW



> Hello Bench lovers !!
> 
> I completed my bench and wanted to share (yeah, and brag a bit).
> Its small Douglas Fir bench squeezed into my bathroom workshop. No metal at all (except the vice hardware) and uses mortise/tenons and wedges so that it can be broken down and moved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a more complete write up and more pictures on my project post "Tokyo Toilet Workbench" if you are interested!! (yes, thats a bathtub on the left)
> 
> I love all the benches here!!! I took a lot of inspiration from this group when I was working on mine! Thanks
> 
> - murrayintokyo


----------



## murrayintokyo

> Murray must be in the bathroom using his new bench, because all I see is a gray Do Not Enter sign.
> 
> - splatman


Mmmmm yes, I think where I am hosting the photos is not ideal…. I'll try to sort that out before I post anything more. Thanks guys

(ps the toilet roll is really handy for glue wipe ups!)


----------



## Spelcher

End assemblies drawbored and glued. Top tenons fit with the base put together which was a huge relief - but it turns out I didn't flatten the underside of the top as well as I thought I had. Now for a terrifying attempt to plane off a bit of meat off the underside at the back of the benchtop without making things worse… There's not much give at all in the base assembly, as designed, but hopefully I can close the gap at the front right end a bit. Unfortunately that's the most visible joint. Not sure if the lag bolts in the top end stretchers can pull the top down enough if I just leave it as-is…

Any advice?


----------



## lysdexic

This can be tricky. I had a similar situation on my bench. I think I just left it. However, if the visibility of the gap is the most problematic, try and figure out if you have a wind in the top or if the flush fitting leg is just a high spot.

If there is a wind (twist) try to shim a not show visible joint to close the gap on the visible joint. If you feel your dealing with a high spot then a few swipes with a jack plane,focused only on that spot, may do the trick.

Either way, functionally it will be fine. I wouldn't spend the time trying to re-flatten the whole.bottom.

Another thought - before chasing this down see if the top settles with the top on and gravity applied.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Last time I tried to apply gravity I went ass over tea kettle!

I think Scotty is right though. See what it looks like right side up.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Last time I tried to apply gravity I went ass over tea kettle!

I think Scotty is right though. See what it looks like right side up.


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks guys, good advice. As flipping the bench is a bit tedious I might try for a little of both - I'm thinking shave a small amount with a #4 near the tight fitting joint and see if gravity helps with the rest. It does seem there is a bit of twist in the whole top. I think from stresses in the multiple glue ups. As it's seemed to creep back up after a couple flattenings it might be smartest to leave it as-is for a year or so so it can do the moving it needs to do first…

I don't think shimming the opposite corner will help as the whole other end assembly seems flush.

Understandably with all the butterfly activity in the stomach with the approaching Bondo, I don't need the stress of the bench having a bad hair day added to the whole rigmarole…


----------



## lysdexic

You are assuming that the bottom assembly is true, flat and square. Maybe it is not. Could be that the top is fine and the bottom assembly has a twist.

No matter though, all that matters is that it is solid and looks good. You will flatten the top of the top after the bench is placed in its final position.


----------



## thomasteds

removed


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## thomasteds

removed


----------



## DLK

> Thanks guys, good advice. As flipping the bench is a bit tedious I might try for a little of both - I m thinking shave a small amount with a #4 near the tight fitting joint and see if gravity helps with the rest. It does seem there is a bit of twist in the whole top. I think from stresses in the multiple glue ups. As it s seemed to creep back up after a couple flattenings it might be smartest to leave it as-is for a year or so so it can do the moving it needs to do first…
> 
> I don t think shimming the opposite corner will help as the whole other end assembly seems flush.
> 
> Understandably with all the butterfly activity in the stomach with the approaching Bondo, I don t need the stress of the bench having a bad hair day added to the whole rigmarole…
> 
> - Spelcher


I had the same problem. A thin shim on one of the tenon shoulders fixed the problem and I tried all other remedies.


----------



## kiefer

Flip the thing over and stop guessing .
The issue will be easier to resolve .

Klaus


----------



## theoldfart

^ pretty much the best approach, it worked for me, then you can down to the real business of furniture building. Good luck.


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks guys - I put the right end assembly into the top by itself last night and it lined up just fine. That was a good call lysdexic. Looks like the most likely culprit is a bit of twist caused by the knock-down long stretchers, which means it's likely that the weight of the top can remedy that. I'm really glad I didn't take a plane to the underside…

Now on to the sliding deadman…


----------



## DanKrager

Dry fit. Coming along pretty nicely. Yes that is hedge (osage orange) and Baltic birch plywood. There will be another rod welded to the inserted one that will rest in the notches and rotate out when the bench is lifted. There will be some springs and pedals and gobbledegook to release the ratchet for lowering. The top will be attached to long pivot blocks between the pointy ends. To secure the legs to the rails, I plan to use four 12" bolts that screw into a captive nut plate, similar to a bed rail.










DanK


----------



## jwmalone

Great guys now I feel inadequate. But I knew I needed a real bench. Got some yellow pine that should work well for the basic frame up, I really like the idea of the bamboo flooring on top I know that stuff is tuff as nails. thanks for the ideas guys


----------



## revrok

Haven't had a chance for a final project post yet, but here is my finished bench. Total cost is $61 including the vises


----------



## DanKrager

Out with the old, in with the new. This is the basic bench without the inserts and it's what I mean that one literally cannot set a tool on it. That vise platform comes off and can be replaced by a Kiefer style leg vise, if I choose to build one.








There's a bit more work to be done. The latch rods need to be welded and installed, braces made for the vise platform (they will lock to the bottom of the top legs), the lengthy jack/sticking rail attached, and a new slanted shooting board for the far end, and deciding how far to let the leg cross rail into the bench rails, if at all. The rail that the shooting plane rides upon is holding the crochet and is slightly below the bench rail and will be moved back to its original position close to the bench. I pull hand planes sometimes because it uses a whole different set of muscles. This bench gives solid a whole new meaning to me…there is not a hint of wiggle and this one is not attached to the floor. 








DanK


----------



## Spelcher

That's a cool looking bench Dan - excited to see that one come together, and you too Tim. You guys are both thinking outside the box!


----------



## drcodfish

Tim:

I REALLY like your bench. I realize that in the last couple years since I built my 7 footer that most of the time the last couple feet have most frequently been occupied by "stuff". I clean it off and put 'stuff' away regularly but I may have been better served to dedicate the time, materials and pace to more efficient storage. Then again, it is entirely possible that I need to reduce my 'stuff' collection.


----------



## Spelcher

Hey guys, I just wanted to pass along some safety advice from first hand experience…

Be really careful when disposing of banana peels on your shop floor.


----------



## Spelcher

It's really easy to slip and fall onto your bench.


----------



## jmartel

If only I was that graceful whenever I fall.


----------



## Spelcher

I'm really happy with how it turned out and I wanted to thank you guys for all the advice along the way. I'm hoping in the next couple days to put together a detailed project post of the construction.

For the end vise, I came up with an idea that gave me many of the advantages of both a QR end vise and a wagon vise. I did some brain pirating from Kiefer with his end vise, and from Will Myers via an article Chris Schwarz did on his bench. I'm super happy with how that turned out. It's very quick to engage and adjust. It's operated by a magnet recessed in the vise's chop. To disengage the dog traveller, you just need to close it all the way with moderate force, and the vise can be used as a QR face vise at the end of the bench.

This gives the support of a wagon vise for face planing thin material (no sag over the gap between the chop and the bench), and the added advantage of using a dog hole in the back chop for really long boards, to extend the clampable length between dogs.

Here's a quick video of how it works:


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## theoldfart

Awesome bench Jason and a falling Bondo! Yahoo!!


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## BulldogLouisiana

> It s really easy to slip and fall onto your bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Spelcher


Nice Bondo. The bench turned out great. I should be Bondoing soon, I moved my bench from my friend shop to my house today. Got caught in a pretty heavy storm for about 15 minutes. It appears to have dried ok.


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## Spelcher

And some random unorganized pictures taken with a phone covered in linseed oil:


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## CL810

Jason that is a great bench! It will serve you well for many years to come. And great Bondo!!!


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## theoldfart

Jason, cork or leather?


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## DanKrager

Yes, good bondo Jason, and a great bench. Really like your idea of a wagon vice controlled by a QR end vise! Major contribution there, IMHO.

I probably should have blogged this instead of posting so much here. Not a good blogger. That which holds up the vise plate letting the vise travel with the adjustable top.









A detail I've missed having and now have…a sticking plate. It will eventually come level with the top. For some small glue ups the bench is nice The big rack in the back of some photos (looks like a clamp rack and is here covered with my "disposable surface" grid) is actually a rack to glue up slabs, up to 36" x 96".










DanK


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## Spelcher

Thanks guys. BD, that sounds stressful! Hope there wasn't any damage from the storm…


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## Spelcher

That's looking super interesting dan. Kevin, both chops are lined with suede - the BC Classic hardware came with some, and I got some more from a local leather store for the end vise chop.


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## Spelcher

double post


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## Iguana

> It s really easy to slip and fall onto your bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Spelcher


Woot!!!

Congrats, Jason. Now get to using it


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## splatman

Youtuber Jeremy Schmidt built a bench with a concrete-core top.
About the bench.
The build.


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## kiefer

*Congrats Jason *.
Awesome looking bench and be proud to have built a *lifetime plus bench* .
Thanks for the mention also and I love how you took my idea and adapted it to your wagon vise .

Klaus


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## revrok

Thanks Dr C!

It is great to have a rock solid surface to work on. The size has seldom been a problem so far and I have zero racking issues. I have to admit I probably would have made a six to seven foot bench myself in my old space but now that I have almost no space this was my only option!

Grace and Peace,
Tim


> Tim:
> 
> I REALLY like your bench. I realize that in the last couple years since I built my 7 footer that most of the time the last couple feet have most frequently been occupied by "stuff". I clean it off and put stuff away regularly but I may have been better served to dedicate the time, materials and pace to more efficient storage. Then again, it is entirely possible that I need to reduce my stuff collection.
> 
> - drcodfish


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## duckmilk

Well done Jason, the bench and wagon vise are sweet!


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## duckmilk

Thread killer.

What happened Bulldog? You left me in suspense.


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## DanKrager

Went to see the Ark Encounter and Creation Museum in KY and saw some AWESOME woodworking. The ark is the largest timber frame construction in the world right now. All of the major frame timbers were 18" square or bigger with round timbers at 36" everywhere. The joinery was crisp and unbelievably precise.

In one of the displays I found artists concepts of the early workshops that might have been used to build at least some of the accessories. The unique workbench caught my attention:


























That's one massive end vise. I was intrigued by the "wheels".
DanK


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## CL810

That end vise is incredible. Would never thought of going there to see wood working. Thanks for posting.


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## ssnvet

And to think, they're only now starting to understand how the pyramids were made. It turns out if you wet the sand "just right" you create a slippery slurry over which massive blocks will slide. Too much or too little water and they won't budge.

I'd love to see a real scientific expedition up to Mt. Ararat to see once and for all if their is an arc embedded in the glaciers. But as long as the Kurds and the Turks are killing each other there, it likely won't happen.


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## theoldfart

One final bench addition just arrived. From Black Bear Forge









The craftsmanship's outstanding and the holding power is bomber.


















One light hit with a mallet and it wasn't going anywhere.


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## ToddJB

Those are stunning, Kev!


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## CL810

They are indeed special,very nic Kev!


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## Spelcher

Beautiful Kevin! Your benchtop is about 4" thick isn't it? Did they hold well without sanding the shafts first?


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## theoldfart

Jason, they hold really well right out of the box. My top is 4" of oak. I didn't sand them but my dog holes are anything but smooth.


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## revrok

> One final bench addition just arrived. From Black Bear Forge
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The craftsmanship s outstanding and the holding power is bomber.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One light hit with a mallet and it wasn t going anywhere.
> 
> - theoldfart


Gorgeous as well as functional


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## rad457

Them are real Purity!!! Would make everything on my bench including my bench jealous.


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## DLK

How do they compare with Gramercy's hold fast? Anyone know. I have a pair but it seems I aways want one more. Before I knew better I fell for a deal from Woodcraft on some Chinese made ones. They don't hold well.


----------



## theoldfart

Not a clue Don, just know they are solidly made. They are my first holdfasts. I held out for the pretty ones!

BTW talked to John Switzer, aka Black Bear Forge, today to thank him for the relatively quick turnaround. Pretty decent and down to earth guy. You should call him.


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## chrisstef

Hold me.


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## theoldfart

OK, but it may hurt.
Stop by and I'll let you try 'em.


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## KelleyCrafts

Don, I imagine they hold well just like the Gramercy ones. Of course these are like 4X the price for 2. If I had the money when I bought mine these would be at my bench, needless to say I have the Gramercy ones and they do the job perfectly. These are just beautiful….wish I had the scratch for them at the time.


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## theoldfart

ki7hy, I waited close to three years before ordering them. They do not come cheap but I suspect they will last longer that a cast version.


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## DLK

The Gramercy holdfast are not cast, they are made of modern formed wire. However the Chinese ones I *also* have (and only use when my Gramercy holdfast are holding down the Moxon vise) are indeed cast. I'm surprised they have not broken. They look very cool, but functionally are they worth the money over Gramercy? Just wondering. I am very happy that you have them and I expect we will seem them used soon.


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## CL810

Ya, but during those 3 years, you were building a bench to hold your holdfasts. :-0)))



> ki7hy, I waited close to three years before ordering them. They do not come cheap but I suspect they will last longer that a cast version.
> 
> - theoldfart


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## DLK

I had always wondered what work benches were for.


----------



## theoldfart

work bench = tool holder/ rust acquisition rationalization


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## kiefer

> work bench = tool holder/ rust acquisition rationalization
> 
> - theoldfart


That makes total sense !


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## revrok

> I had always wondered what work benches were for.
> 
> - Combo Prof


As in I can't finish that project because my bench isn't done? I need another "you fill in the blank" , honey, for when my bench is done! I can't wait to get my bench done so I can get "you fill in the blank" done.


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## theoldfart

Well, the kids have new shoes! Thanks Stef.


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## ToddJB

What did you use to adhere them , Kev?


----------



## theoldfart

Contact cement Todd


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## bandit571

Didn't have the cash to spend on this thing today..









They wanted $24 for the vise….would not fit my bench anyway…oh well…


----------



## Boatman53

This coming weekend I'll be set up at the open house here http://www.schoolofwoodworking.com/open-house-2016.html
I'll have my show bench if anyone want to try out a leg vise with with the chain to keep the jaw parallel. The tall vise in the foreground has the Hovarter quick release feature and paired with the chain is awesome.










Jim


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## duckmilk

Wow Jim, what a nice pairing of vise hardware. I'll bet it works really sweet.
Unfortunately, I won't be able to spend the $$ for both. Given that situation, I'd have to go for your hardware first.


----------



## Mikhail

Been over a year since my last progress post. Moving, shop teardown and setup really messes up project timelines.

Still have my thick spruce top build, although its pretending to be an outfeed table currently.

Some old maple came my way, so I quickly fabricated some temporary legs and got my vices mounted.

The bench top split was expanded to fit around a basement post. Removable tool bins will fit in between at some point.

While I am not a fan of metal support and the noise they make, they are good enough for now, and allow me to have a bench instead another half finished project.

https://goo.gl/photos/vFQc4FwY2VeJY9CX9!

https://goo.gl/photos/QjAoHNKJSW4AS4QdA!

https://goo.gl/photos/pKpyoZx7ikRjWtBb7!

https://goo.gl/photos/1DkC8bzR3C7HNtE38


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## Mikhail

x2 post. doht.


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## CL810

Mikhail, with access to both sides that is like having two benches instead of one. Are you going to make an insert for the split top?


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## Brit

> Removable tool bins will fit in between at some point.
> 
> - Mikhail


CL810 - Andy sometimes it is good to read the text as well as look at the photos. Sorry, I just couldn't resist and I know you can take it. )


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## CL810

I resolve to never post until I am properly caffeinated! Lol


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## Mikhail

Thats right. At first I wanted trays deep enough to put my planes in, but the top is only 1 7/8" thick. At the same time I was struggling a bit to locate the full 6 foot length in my planed shop space AND put a tail vice on.










Widening the split helps with both issues. I can fit the bench around the beam and still have room for a bit of padding, or just bolt to it.

I am still thinking about how to support deeper tool trays and build in a planning/saw stop via the split.

I also have some 2.5" bowling alley maple lamentations but the nails are not something I want to deal with in my bench top. Perhaps for a lower shelf? I definitely need more mass on the bottom of the bench right now.


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## Mikhail

Yikes. Just got really quiet here.

Here is some progress using these bowling alley strips. They are all nailed and not screwed or glued. Still not sure what to do with them. They came out of a pile outside a decommissioned bowling alley.

I cut up one of them with a circular saw and a cheap blade for going thru nails. Trimmed to size and grinder to remove exposed twist nails, and voila. Ugly incarnate.










Pretty strong for a shelf though. And good enough for tools.

I put the first scratch in the top of my bench today, while removing the old finish from the bowling maple wood. 
I think I handled it pretty good. Just need a couple of deep breaths and remember its a WORK bench…not fine furniture…its ok….see I can rub in some more linseed/varnish mix into the scratch and its OOOOOKAAAAY.

Deep breath…

Har.


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## Hammerthumb

> Well, the kids have new shoes! Thanks Stef.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


Are those made from old Crocs Kevin?


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## bandit571

Cleared off, and ready for the next time









Needs a project, now…


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## theoldfart

Yea Paul, I had to chase Stef down to get his and boy did he put up a struggle. Finally had to smack him with a kielbasa!

Hehe

Stef sent me a piece of leather from his bench build.


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## Hammerthumb

Funny you mention kielbasa. My mother made me sauerkraut, spare ribs, and kielbasa while I was in Wisconsin. Lunch and dinner for 3 days. Got my fill for another couple of years.


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## theoldfart

cholesterol enhanced no doubt!


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## Hammerthumb

I had to double my exercise program while I was there.

I had to laugh at my brother though, he has lost 40lbs over the last few months and has more to go. His exercise program doubled what I did. But I didn't gain any weight while I was there. Still 178lbs of rompin, stompin romance! (don't ask my wife that).


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## bandit571

I'm built like an NFL Fullback…..5'11", 243 pounds, hands of stone, and can't run. Sound like anyone playing nowadays?

Getting ready to get the left knee worked on…..might be seeing the "Bone Guy" next week, maybe an MRI.

Little bench does fill up fast, though…


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## DanKrager

Well, Bandit, good luck with the knee joinery! It's good you aren't doing that work yourself, yes?

DanK


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## Tugboater78

Decided i didn't like the tooltray in my Seller's style bench, so glued on some more material.









3/8 inch difference in thickness though. I think ill just dado out the difference on the original slab, to sit on the leg assemblies. Lose that in height though..

Gotta reattach aprons as well. Because they twisted and literally pulled themselves loose from the connector bolts.

I think i will just do without bolts and glue/peg them on this round. His idea was to leave his able to be disassembled, i doubt mine will ever be.

We shall see how it goes this coming week when i get home. Been so dang busy with wedding prep and house reno, etc the last couple months, very little time to work on it. Things have slowed down a bit, so maybe get this witch back together and get it working.


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## KelleyCrafts

I built the Seller's bench and didn't bolt mine on. I just glued it. I don't really need to transport it so breaking it down wasn't a priority. I however, love the well. That's just a personal opinion of course.


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## chrisstef

Lil late to the party but goad the skins made it to ya OF! Holdfasts complete!! I got some more material from layered underpants if youre interested Paul.


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## Tugboater78

Dryfitting

New seasoned front apron rabbeted and doweled in. dados cut out in old slab for leg assemblies to rest flat. easier to do that that take the old slab down ~ 3/8 to match what i used to fill the tool well i deleted.

Tomorrow gotta cut the legs a bit more to accept the new, thicker, taller apron, to have apron flush with legs. If i get to it…

Also cleaning up and restoring a t17 #4, and a t11 #3, i got earlier this year at an antique show.


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## DLK

I see a lots of hard work in these pictures and an interesting mallet. Looking good.


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## RonAylor1760

Perhaps I should have posted this here instead of on the projects page(s) ... please see more at Workbench


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## splatman

Youtuber Alain Vaillancourt built a smackdown-worthy workbench.
Here's the 4 videos of its construction.


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## Tugboater78

Posted elsewhere but figured ahould post in here aince it is so quiet..

Did a dry fit of new stretchers and front apron the other day.


















Lots of character in what will be right front leg..









Have also redis rear apron, but no pics, maybe in a few weeks when i get back in the shop.


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## RonAylor1760

*"... Lots of character in what will be right front leg …"*

You can say that again … beautiful. First ding on that and I bet you'll cry!


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## Hammerthumb

Wow Tug. That is one awesome looking leg! Puts my wife's gams to shame. Got to tell you though, bench works better right side up.


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## theoldfart

Justin, that leg is a looker!


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## BurlyBob

Love the rays in that leg. I hope the other three look as good.


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## Tugboater78

> Love the rays in that leg. I hope the other three look as good.
> 
> - BurlyBob


Second picture down, on left, is the side of the left front leg, which will have a legvice, so the plain side will be hidden by vice chop.


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## woodcox

So, I have this gapping crevasse on the back of ma bench that could filled with this?
Purty flush to the bench under top? that will move out and be rigid once in place. Some ideas working themselves out. I'm not to concerned about the mess that goes with honing for the workbench itself, but the work in progress atop the bench. Maybe. I like working around the entire bench and making use of that space could be cool. Also, my edges will surely benefit having their stones so close. I have always done sharpening closer to the plumbing. Any comments welcome.









Thanks again shop log.


----------



## terryR

Looks pretty slick.
Just as long as you can get to the stones quickly, sharpening should be a pleasure!


----------



## duckmilk

WC, I just looked into that Stone Pond system. I was unaware of it previously. I also found this interesting comparison of the various water stones.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=67186&cat=1,43072


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## woodcox

Duck, I have used the pond for a while and it's definitely a great way to contain the mess. In the winter months I bring sharpening indoors so the portable is great. Summer months I want it right there for the routine maintenance instead an exorbitant process from putting it off too long. I would love plumbing and a sturdy basin IN a shop someday. Good info on those stones too.


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## galooticus

Hi, this thread is what turned me on to lumberjocks and I ended up reading all of it. Finally I'm starting to build my own roubo-ish bench, and I'm excited to post with a question.

I'm using home center doug fir lumber for the whole bench, and I've had it stored for a couple months now. For the top in particular, I got 4×4s thinking I would save my self some glueups compared to 2×4s. But, some of the beams are… slightly warped 










Hopefully that gap is big enough for you to see-third beam from the top. It's almost 3/4" at the widest part in the middle.

So the question is, any thoughts on how to deal with this?

First I considered heading back to the store to get some more beams, but then I'd probably have to wait until they dry out. Planing it true is too much work, though I can afford to give up some width. Right now I'm thinking of cross cutting the naughty beam(s) into 2-3 (4?) pieces, truing up each, then laminating back together. Maybe use some dowels or floating tenons. Bad idea?


----------



## woodcox

Galoot. You are gonna loose a lot a wood truing those up. And If they have the pith, which is a common cut for a 4×4 post to have, I would get your receipt and return them. 









The pith will check bad and likely move like crazy anyway. Better off buying wide 2x material and ripping the good wood out to laminate it back together. Use the quarter or rift sections. Go back and read this thread again. Jk.


----------



## galooticus

Yeah, reading a million pages is one thing, I'm learning that doing it is another. I was trying to reduce the ripping and glue efforts, but just ended up with different issues. I was smart enough to avoid pith though, and nearly all of the pieces have a good quarter or rift face. I'll take a look at the 2x stock next time I head to the store, but I'm inclined to find a solution to what I've got.


----------



## bandit571

Third board down…move to the outside, or maybe just replace that one.

One other tip; Go look up Paul Sellers take on building a workbench out of 2×4s. He does have a full youtube series on that subject..


----------



## onoitsmatt

What are you doing for the base? That warped one could easily be cut into legs or rails or some other base parts.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Those are good looking 4x's to my eye. I second Matt's question / suggestion. Also Bandit's idea to just replace the bad one and not worry too much about waiting months to use it. Let it acclimate to your shop area for a week or so, and go for it. I think you're on the right track.


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## DLK

I agree with Bandit, Mat and/or Smitty. Don't worry about pith so much. I have some in mine it looks cool and does not seem to bother my work.
Also no need to be to cheap you will have this bench a very long time.


----------



## splatman

Clamp all the 4×4s together (force them straight) and let 'em acclimate. Less persuasion will be needed come glue time. Use the warped-est one for legs.


----------



## galooticus

Thanks for all the responses!

I'll check out Paul Sellers' workbench videos.

I've got 4×8s for the legs, and planned to use the crappier 4×4s for stretchers/rails. Problem is just that I ended up with 1-2 more warped 4×4s than I need for stretchers/rails. I'm thinking I'll head to the store and get a couple more 4×4s, and clamp them down. I can find some other parts to work on for a while.

I'll post back once I've got some progress. (or more likely, a new problem, haha)


----------



## splatman

Save the extra lumber for your first project on your new workbench.


----------



## ADN

Here is mine, we remodeled a late 1800's stone farm house, all of the wood we removed was old growth long leaf pine heartwood, saved it for my workbench build.

Hard as a rock and about the color of pumpkin, in fact the old timers call it pumpkin wood, it looks nothing like what we call long leaf pine today.

Took almost a year to get it to this point, still have a few things to do, but it's 90% or so complete.

Broke many of the "workbench rules" its too high 36", too wide, 32", and I'm very happy with it.

Know there are many more grandiose benches with more skilled craftsmenship but someone might get something out of this one….

It's 10 ft long and 5 inches thick, Lie-Nielsen tail vise, and Benchcrafted Crisscross leg vise.

My own variation of the spilt top Roubo design, main section of the top is 15 inches wide, and weighs over 200 lbs, the whole bench is almost 800 lbs. The top needs no fasteners to hold it in place, and is solid as a rock.

Really like the LN tail.vise, highly recommend one, and the split top is also great….


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## onoitsmatt

That's a real good looking bench!


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## DLK

That looks superb. Can we see a picture of the LN tail vise?


> Broke many of the "workbench rules" its too high 36", too wide, 32", and I'm very happy with it.
> 
> -mos maiorum


The only one of these rules you claim to have broken that troubles me is the last one "I'm very happy with it." LOL


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## WillliamMSP

Are you going to name it Gorilla so that it can be the 800 pound Gorilla… in… the… oh, never mind. 

Awesome looking bench - kudos!


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## ADN

Thanks for the compliments….

This is the only handy photo of the LN tail vise, almost didn't go for it because the Benchcrafted wagon vise is so easy to install comparatively, used one on another bench.

The extra effort to install the LN is more than worth it, pays for itself almost everyday….


----------



## Marcial

ADN- great bench. Must have had a crane and a bunch of mates helping you with the assembly. Mine's about half that weight and it was, uh, challenging dealing with the components. 
Here's my entry- It's kind of a Frankenbench with being able to vary the height from 30" to 42" while remaining stable being the biggest challenge. Also wanted to be able to move the thing, thus the casters. I got the idea of a variable height bench from retro.net but could not afford their base. Mine would up 10-15 cents on their dollar. I spent a fair amount of time reading up on benches which is how I wound up joining this forum. 
This is at 34" benchtop height. The top was too heavy for me to take to get sanded, so that was the reason for getting a Veritas #7 jointer plane. A workout.








This is at 38" height. Much more back friendly for working on the bench dogs, which were finished today









There's as many ways to make these things as there are folks making them. Here's mine








The pattern makers vise and Benchcrafted end vise were purchased from Highland Woodworking. Great folks to do business with.








There is storage area for straight edges and for my two Festool tracks.


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## ToddJB

Sweet benches.


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## woodcox

That made the morning, thanks! Amazing benches. Well done you guys.


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## CL810

Great work ADN and Marcia!

Rules?!? We don't need no stinking rules!


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## theoldfart

Those are two fine benches folks and as it should be they will last for generations. Nice work.


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## ADN

"ADN- great bench. Must have had a crane and a bunch of mates helping you with the assembly. Mine's about half that weight and it was, uh, challenging dealing with the components. "

Marcia: The split top helps a lot, I've had the tops off at least 3 times, during the build, and have moved it once….

That's some outstanding engineering on the lift mechanics, how low can it go? I'm disabled, design things for wheelchair access whenever feasible, so I'm always looking for "solutions"....

*To All:*

No telling how many times I've looked at this thread, before and during my build, thanks to everyone that posted their work….

Was severely wounded in Iraq, and there are days that have to be spent in bed so looking at sites like this are an inspiration.

Highest Regards,
Andy


----------



## BurlyBob

Andy, You have my respect and appreciation for your service. Thank you! 
Your bench is truly awesome. Like you I've been studying this forum before starting my bench. Hopefully, it begins shortly after the first of the year.

My Best,
Bob


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## Marcial

To All: Thanks for the comments. This is one long thread!
Andy- one of the reasons there's open space under the top is for leg room and the option of using it as a standard height desk. I'm at the age where posterity is in the horizon and design stuff to be as multi-functional as possible. At its lowest height the open space is 26" high and 12" deep which is standard desk/table height. Wheelchairs are higher than standard desk/dining chairs so at the height of the first photo, there is 30" of under table knee space which may be better for a wheel chair. Your Moxon work area is noteworthy- that's next on the list for me (after the holidays). To end, your shop looks like a great space- hope you post photos.


----------



## ADN

Bob:

Thanks much, raining and cold today in south TX, 47 deg! ;-) so I'm inside…...

Did most of the bench with hand tools, cut the dog holes with my MF miter box and the knocked, the waste with chisel and cleaned them up with a router plane.

Because of hand tool use, I was able to build it on my front porch….one warning, because of the time involved in the build my wife grew tired of the porch being covered in wood chips, tools and a giant bench!

Looking back it really didn't take much longer than on a table saw and did not have to try and wrestle an 12ft 2×6 for dado cuts at an angle.

Hand tool path started because of possible nails hidden in the reclaimed wood, hand plane blades are much simpler to fix a nick in a plane blade.

Most of the wood was true 4×4 and 2×12s, here's a photo of some of the wood:









Regards,
Andy


----------



## DanKrager

Two fabulous benches!
I strongly considered the mechanism you ended up using Marcial, but expense was a consideration. The other was that I could not be confident of stability at the extended height. So I went with a design I copied from Norden Adjustabench. It's easy and cheap to do in wood, and I had the 2" hedge to absolutely guarantee solidity. One serendipity is that the bench disassembles and is manageable by one person but stays put very solidly when assembled. 
















These are not very good pictures, but the idea should be evident. It's modular so a leg vise is possible too. Something like this:









DanK


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## DLK

Could a pneumatic Jack be used some how to lift the Top to the proper height, or perhaps a winch?

Or a Harbor Freight 500 lb. Capacity Hydraulic Table Cart
with some sort of stabilizing mechanism affixed after lifting.

(The reviews of the Harbor Freight Hydraulic cart are mixed. Some have had no trouble but others had troubles.)


----------



## Spelcher

Beautiful benches guys! Impressive design and execution all around!

ADN, that's a beautiful monster - and love the moxon. With your benchtop acreage you could probably just leave it on most of the time eh?

Marcial - I love the handwheel for raising and lowering, and cool take on the springs for square dogs.

DanK, those picture show the mechanism a bit more clearly - I can finally see how it works. Cool design!


----------



## DanKrager

A pair of scissor jacks lift and lower my SIL adjustable bench. A little awkward because the legs bind in their receivers a little bit. They are linked together under the tool cabinets and make the lift pretty easy.
DanK


----------



## ADN

"ADN, that's a beautiful monster - and love the moxon. With your benchtop acreage you could probably just leave it on most of the time…"

Thanks, and yes the Moxon use to stay on the bench, but since the photo, made a separate jointer bench with it.

Regards,
Andy


----------



## duckmilk

WOW and WOW to both of you! They are both superb! (And I was just thinking of building a traditional bench. Makes me feel insufficient in some way.)


----------



## Marcial

Code:


 Dan K. Thanks for the + comments. Your jigs are just mind blowing! As for the cost of screw jack, pricing US retail gave major sticker shock. JACTON INDUSTRY CO.,LTD a Chinese supplier was way more reasonable, with about 40% of the cost coming from door to door shipping. That's who I used for a couple of Festool MFT's that with adjustable height and casters became really multifunctional. eBay and my local metal shop were my sources for the frankenbench. <br />

 duckmilk- it's by no means perfect. One of these days (probably after the holidays) I'll fill in the sordid details. Let's just say those were my first dovetails and with only one practice run instead of the afternoon doing dovetails I had been advised to do prior to the real thing.


----------



## DLK

Marcial, how did you get a "Fixed width font"?


----------



## Marcial

Don K- must have been the ghost in the machine.


----------



## Mosquito

Don, prefix and postfix with an @



Code:


like this


----------



## DLK

Very nice. Where is this explained? More precisely what is the name of the formating/posting software called? Then I can read up on it.


----------



## Mosquito

I have no idea what the software is, or if there's somewhere to view stuff like that. I just quoted his post, and saw that it was because he used @ before Dan K. and duckmilk.

It looks like it interprets the @ and swaps it for


Code:


 tags.  Which also work, or  tags.  It's a weird system lol


----------



## DLK

> I have no idea what the software is, or if there s somewhere to view stuff like that. I just quoted his post, and saw that it was because he used @ before Dan K. and duckmilk.
> 
> It looks like it interprets the @ and swaps it for
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> tags.  Which also work, or  tags.  It s a weird system lol
> 
> - Mosquito
> [/QUOTE]
> 
> I quoted it too befor asking and apparently missed the @ LOL.  so how did Marcial  find this code.


----------



## Mosquito

probably by accident lol


----------



## DLK

I got it.

He wrote "At " Dan K. for a directed response to Dan K. as one would do in many other forums and then "At" duckmilk for a directed response to duckmilk. It was just a coincidence that he had two "At"s to turn it on and off.

Anyway this means we can now make tables of things. Like



Code:


Bedrock 605  ..... $45.00




Code:


Diston D8 ....... $20.50


----------



## Mosquito

we already could make tables, as we discovered a while ago, and people broke the forums lol


Stanley #45Complete awesomeRecord #405Not as Awesome


----------



## theoldfart

AHEM, you yankee dog!


----------



## Mosquito

lol I added that specifically figuring you'd call me out Kevin


----------



## theoldfart

It worked, am I that predictable?

On second thought, don't answer that. :-0


----------



## DLK

> we already could make tables, as we discovered a while ago, and people broke the forums lol
> 
> Stanley #45Complete awesomeRecord #405Not as Awesome
> 
> - Mosquito


O.K. I give up I even tried quoting. How did you make the table!


----------



## splatman

> I got it.
> 
> He wrote "At " Dan K. for a directed response to Dan K. as one would do in many other forums and then "At" duckmilk for a directed response to duckmilk. It was just a coincidence that he had two "At"s to turn it on and off.
> 
> Anyway this means we can now make tables of things. Like
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Bedrock 605  ..... $45.00
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Diston D8 ....... $20.50
> 
> - Combo Prof












Back on topic: Has anyone built a Star Wars themed workbench?


----------



## KentInOttawa

> O.K. I give up I even tried quoting. How did you make the table!


Can we please NOT do this again?

See: Page 48 of this thread (http://lumberjocks.com/replies/on/1586054/page/48). Scroll down to see the full effect of where this can go. You can also go here to sort out what really happened, if you are so inclined.

I told you that I read the whole thread ;-) I even remembered some of it.


----------



## DLK

Sure. I did not know there was an issue.


----------



## putty

Since y'all are talking about formatting, how do you copy something and highlight it in yellow?


----------



## Mosquito

> Can we please NOT do this again?
> 
> See: Page 48 of this thread (http://lumberjocks.com/replies/on/1586054/page/48). Scroll down to see the full effect of where this can go. You can also go here to sort out what really happened, if you are so inclined.
> 
> I told you that I read the whole thread ;-) I even remembered some of it.
> 
> - KentInOttawa


lol yes, and I haven't laughed so much while reading LumberJocks since that all happened lol Hence my statement above about people breaking the forums :-D



> Since y all are talking about formatting, how do you copy something and highlight it in yellow?
> 
> - putty


Do you mean like this? You use the "Quote" link under someone's post


----------



## Brit

Then you get your yellow highlighter and draw over the text you want to highlight on your screen. Don't scroll up or down afterwards though.


----------



## putty

> Do you mean like this? You use the "Quote" link under someone s post
> 
> Thanks Mos…I never noticed that before…Duh
> 
> but how do you just select only one sentence of a post.. I had to backspace
> through the rest of your post for just that one sentence.
> 
> Now everything I type after that sentence is also highlighted


----------



## WillliamMSP

^^^ You have to type your message after the blockquote brackets.


----------



## putty

Thanks Mos and Andy
One last dumb question, where is the yellow highlighter


----------



## putty

> ^^^ You have to type your message after the blockquote brackets.
> 
> - WillliamMSP


Got it…Thanks Bill
Now for the yellow highlighter


----------



## theoldfart

work bench thread?


----------



## putty

Sorry, there were some other formatting discussions and I followed up with a question.


----------



## theoldfart

Not you putty, just thought the stream of formatting posts was funny. I have a lot of folks in the office I work in always asking how to do formatting in word and excel and those posts are what i hear all the time!

ok a work bench post









just as a side note, I just screwed up the piece on the bench!


----------



## Mosquito

It's a running table Kevin, you're a genius! Put an axle in the middle and spin that sucker up to get the table where ever you want!


----------



## putty

LOL
Sign of a good craftsman is how well they fix their mistakes.


----------



## Brit

If Picasso made a table, it would look like that. After your death, it will be worth millions!


----------



## Brit

I cut a piece of wood to the wrong length, not once, not twice, but three fuggin' times once and don't even get me started on how much coving I've mitered incorrectly and thrown in the skip when I was remodeling my house.


----------



## theoldfart

"coving I've mitered incorrectly" yup, me too! inside/outside is hard!


----------



## ToddJB

Kev, if that's a four legged table won't the left one work for the left back side?


----------



## theoldfart

Todd, the sides are already fitted and the mortises are asymmetric.


----------



## dddddmorgan

I'm gonna go home and kick my bench!

This inspires me more than ever before. After the holidays, probably after the wedding (for my kid) I will get to a proper bench… yea…


----------



## shampeon

That's going to be one tall table, Kevin.


----------



## ADN

Moved my Moxon to its own stand, use to leave it on my bench, first picture is on the bench, old set up, next is on its own. Really like it as a stand alone:


----------



## CL810

Really nice set up ADN. Such a smart move.


----------



## woodcox

Nice adn. How tall is it? BC hardware?


----------



## ADN

Thanks guys…..

Yes BC hardware, used a lathe to machined it smooth, it's 36 inch between wheels and around 42 inches high.

The work area is about 14 inches deep with a dog hole for a hold down to chop dovetails and with a tool rack in the rear.

In my original design the tool rack doubled as a handle, then it slopes to a clampdown board in the rear making the overall depth about 20 inches.

If one has the space, I highly recommend making a stand alone Moxon bench…..

Andy,


----------



## ssnvet

Love the stand alone Moxon. Very smart idea.


----------



## terryR

+1 to the stand alone Moxon. Mine is a complete hack, but works beautifully. A piece of oak, piece of maple, some ply, and angle brackets holding it to the tabletop.










So butt-ugly I usually keep it covered with stuff! LOL.


----------



## BikerDad

> Hopefully that gap is big enough for you to see-third beam from the top. It s almost 3/4" at the widest part in the middle.
> 
> So the question is, any thoughts on how to deal with this?
> ...
> - galooticus


Cut the offending beast into shorter pieces, true things up, and laminate. You could, if you can afford the length, use a scarf joint in "reassembling" the bowed timber, but with all the long grain glue joint on both sides, I doubt it will be necessary. Just take a look at any commercial "butcher blocK" top, which are very, very rarely true butcher block, and you'll see how its done.

If you don't want to go that route, AND don't want to spend months waiting for new wood to stabilize, take a wander around Craigslist. Look for somebody selling gluelams. 90% of the work is already done for you, sometimes more depending on your design.


----------



## drcodfish

I agree with B-Dad. It would be nice to have a bench top made exclusively of full length stock, but given what you have there I'd either cut the offender in to pieces, square the cut ends and fill the missing length with an additional short piece, the 'shorts' beam could be placed toward the back side of the bench so that it didn't stand out so much. or, ... head back to the big orange hardware store and pick though the pile for the driest, straightest replacement board you can find.


----------



## BikerDad

Has anybody built a stouter set of workbench casters like these from Rockler (Woodcraft has similar)?










Those puppies only have a load rating of 100lbs each, which means 400lbs for the set, well below the weight of my workbench. Plus they don't handle uneven expansion joints well because the wheels are smallish in diameter.


----------



## ADN

> +1 to the stand alone Moxon. Mine is a complete hack, but works beautifully. A piece of oak, piece of maple, some ply, and angle brackets holding it to the tabletop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So butt-ugly I usually keep it covered with stuff! LOL.
> 
> - terryR


Functionality over aesthetics any day…..

Andy,


----------



## galooticus

I ended up buying 3 more 4×4s that were already much drier than my first batch, and left them clamped for over a week before touching them. Right now I'm about halfway through rough truing the best pieces. Looking much more promising now.

Thinking about making some panel clamps from the unused 4×4s to get a top that's a bit flatter than parallel clamps, hopefully yielding more finished thickness.


----------



## bandit571

> Has anybody built a stouter set of workbench casters like these from Rockler (Woodcraft has similar)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those puppies only have a load rating of 100lbs each, which means 400lbs for the set, well below the weight of my workbench. Plus they don t handle uneven expansion joints well because the wheels are smallish in diameter.
> 
> You might check out the ones at Harbor Freight, sometime..
> 
> - BikerDad


----------



## kryptix

> Has anybody built a stouter set of workbench casters like these from Rockler (Woodcraft has similar)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those puppies only have a load rating of 100lbs each, which means 400lbs for the set, well below the weight of my workbench. Plus they don t handle uneven expansion joints well because the wheels are smallish in diameter.
> 
> - BikerDad


You could probably go the Sawstop mobile base route and put a bottle jack in the set up, a bottle jack on each end with a rail to lift the bench and essentially a dolly on each end seems like it would work.


----------



## BikerDad

> You might check out the ones at Harbor Freight, sometime..
> 
> - bandit571


I'm not sure which ones at HF you mean. They don't have any flip-down casters. None of their 3" stem casters have any better of a rating than the Rockler units. Even their 4" stem caster, IF it would fit (something I question) only gets another 20lbs. Still, I think it'll be worth picking up a set of the 4" units and seeing if they'll fit. 'Tis the swing radius I'm concerned about, not the stem. They don't have the weight capacity I need, but I'm mostly interested in fit for now. After that's sorted, I'll install them onto my miter saw cart, it can use bigger wheels for easier rolling.


----------



## duckmilk

> Has anybody built a stouter set of workbench casters like these from Rockler (Woodcraft has similar)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BikerDad


If they are swiveling wheels, how about using more than 4 of them?


----------



## BikerDad

> Has anybody built a stouter set of workbench casters like these from Rockler (Woodcraft has similar)?
> 
> - BikerDad
> 
> If they are swiveling wheels, how about using more than 4 of them?
> 
> - duckmilk


In other circumstances, that might work, but for one of the benches I need bigger wheels a lot more than I need more load capacity. I think my small bench probably weighs in at about 300lbs, plus whatever may be loaded on/in it at the time I'm moving it. When moving I have to push it uphill across a 3/4" "threshold". Those little 2 3/8" wheels do NOT like that threshold. Because of the threshold and the weight limit, I have to unload the bench (which is now my utility/metal work bench) before I move it, else I'm likely to cause a catastrophic failure in one or more casters.

My other bench, a 9' x 29" Split Top Roubo (pics in this thread and in my blog here), definitely needs the additional weight capacity, as the top alone comes in at over 300lbs. Unfortunately, there's nowhere practical to mount more than 4 casters. I left plenty of "toe room" under the lower stretchers, but not enough that it would allow casters on the inside faces of the legs. And I'm not going to have casters projecting out into the travel path.

I've got a spare set of 4 1,000 lb rated casters, and a set of 250lb-ish units. Since I now have a welder, I'm thinking I'll take a crack at making a king sized version of the Rockler beasties for the utility bench. If that works, I may do the same for the Roubo. I was hoping someone else has already done it, and they could share the "Do and Don'ts" from experience.


----------



## ADN

Edit (for another 60 minutes)

Used a set like this for a 6 ft metal lathe with cabinet and an AC/DC motor set up, very heavy….not as fast as foot operation but one can move something very with them and level it as well.

Don't recall the brand I used, but they were even more heavy duty, but they also cost more.

https://www.amazon.com/FOOTMASTER-GDR-60F-BLK-Ratcheting-Leveling-Caster/dp/B00I2JH1NK/ref=s9_simh_gw_g328_i1_r?_encoding=UTF8&fpl=fresh&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=&pf_rd_r=0GQ1J3TK51QPBHJNHYFH&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=a6aaf593-1ba4-4f4e-bdcc-0febe090b8ed&pf_rd_i=desktop

Regards,
Andy


----------



## Marcial

I used this Footmaster product for my bench. It might need a ramp to get it over that threshold but that would probably be the case with any wheel until you get to over 4" diameter. My bench is in the 400lb range and it's very difficult to budge with the foot portion down.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I2JG8ZW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I've seen setups where a caster has been welded to a hinge on the side of the legs which can then be flipped under the foot. This looks like a two person job where one lifts the bench up and the other repositions the casters. In the shop, I'm on my own and it does not look like an elegant solution.


----------



## Boatman53

Now what do I do? I just picked up these vises, one is missing it's quick release nut and all but one are quick release.










Jim


----------



## Mosquito

> Now what do I do?
> - Boatman53


Build more benches lol That's quite the haul of vises


----------



## ToddJB

Jim, if you have a boneyard of vises, I have a beautiful 10" Colombian that is missing it's T that the handle goes through - if any get parted out I'd like to buy one.


----------



## onoitsmatt

> Galoot. You are gonna loose a lot a wood truing those up. And If they have the pith, which is a common cut for a 4×4 post to have, I would get your receipt and return them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pith will check bad and likely move like crazy anyway. Better off buying wide 2x material and ripping the good wood out to laminate it back together. Use the quarter or rift sections. Go back and read this thread again. Jk.
> 
> - woodcox


This thread has gone on too long without acknowledging the above joke from last month.


----------



## Boatman53

Todd, that's why I posted. The one in the back right that is separated is the parts vise. It might be easier to do the whole screw instead of trying to get the hub off. Send me a PM with an email address and we'll talk.
Jim


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks Jim, PM sent.


----------



## ssnvet

Jim, If you're looking to offload your vises (you know, drinking and smoking, etc…) and you have a functional one, I'd consider taking it off your hands.

don't know what shipping LI to ME would cost though.


----------



## Boatman53

Sure Matt, I don't 'need' 6 , besides I have 5 others stashed in the rat hole. 
Send me a PM and we will see what can be worked out. I've been trying to get up to Maine since September, just haven't pulled it together yet.
Jim


----------



## coxhaus

If those 10 inch vises are Wilton quick release then there are no more parts for them. I owned one which I have sold now because Wilton told me no more quick release parts which wear out. You can pull the quick release out and switch to a nut based system without a quick release.


----------



## galooticus

Was going to put together a blog post next week, but felt like posting this.

I glued up the top two days ago, inside the house for temperature reasons. I was checking to see any signs of wet glue, and I noticed that what will be the frontmost beam of the benchtop has some knots showing on the top. 'That doesn't seem right..' I thought I had done a better job of picking boards and orientation. Then I checked my arrow marks on the end:










#$%


Code:


#%$#%

^ it's off by 90 degrees. Lots of colorful words, but now I'm laughing at myself. Be careful when laminating beams with square cross sections! I also ran out of glue on this (last in my glueup order) lamination, had enough to get by but not ideal. Nothing I can do before the holiday now, but I'm thinking of ripping this one beam off and regluing.


----------



## splatman

> ...but I m thinking of ripping this one beam off and regluing.
> 
> - galooticus


That would be the way to go. Exactly what I would do. Be sure you cut on the side of the glue line farthest from the edge (left side of glue line in the picture), to avoid ending up with a too-thin board when oriented correctly.


----------



## Tugboater78

Mine is still in rehab…









Maybe get it back together by spring.


----------



## haskins

i know that is technically a cart but it could definitely be made larger for those of you coming to this thread for inspiration here is an overview/build video


----------



## Tugboater78

Bench still needs to be permanently put together. Enough to get measurements, and everything lined up for the legvice to be mounted. Small steps in the short amount of time i have, to be in the cold shop. Should have a decent amount of time today, so may get some good headway.


----------



## bandit571

Looks good. I might have to steal that idea on the guide bar….


----------



## Tugboater78

Gluing the top back together









After getting the legvice working(though needs some tweeking, or maybe twerking)


----------



## ssnvet

TB….

I like it! Taking lots of inspiration from this one.


----------



## Tugboater78




----------



## galooticus

Nice to see you working Tug, that chop is looking fantastic (saw your blog post too). Maybe you mentioned this already, but have to reached out to Paul Sellers to see if he's heard of the failure you had?

I put up a blog post of my progress so far, laminating the top:

http://lumberjocks.com/galooticus/blog/99650

(teaser: early bondo picture included)


----------



## MagicalMichael

A hardware question. My 35 year old Scandinavian style bench needs some help, mostly around the shoulder vice. Among the problems is a worn out part on the screw. The end attachment has worn enough so that the screw rolls out of the socket. The screw I have is 1 1/4 but the only replacement I have seen on line is from Veritas and it is 1 1/8. I did find a 1 1/4" screw in Germany but they wanted $100 shipping. Does anyone know of a source for 1 1/4" bench screws? I'm not sure I want to rebuild the entire shoulder to accomodate a smaller screw diameter.

Michael


----------



## DanKrager

Michael, may I suggest take your screw to a machine shop. There are two ways to approach…one is to cut off the worn end and fabricate a replacement. A threaded end on the screw would make it replaceable, i.e. cut the worn part down to a threaded "bolt" and turn a mating female end attachment. The other option is to build some welding beads and turn them back to spec. They might be able to machine a whole new screw for a fairly reasonable price, too. Depends on how hungry they are. Pick a hungry one.

Well, then there's always JB Weld….

DanK


----------



## duckmilk

Michael, have you looked at McMaster-Carr?

https://www.mcmaster.com/#threaded-rods/=15qpztg


----------



## danwolfgang

I've begun my workbench build, sort of a Benchcrafted-inspired roubo with BORG 2×4s. I like the Benchcrafted tail vise, but it's a bit rich for me. I have ordered a Lee Valley tail vise screw and am considering how to mount it. So here's the question: how should I do this? I see a few options but searching hasn't revealed how others have done this, to help me understand if I'm on the right or wrong track.

Could I simply support the screw at both ends? I think that would hold the screw plenty secure but I'm concerned how the dog block would work. With only support at the screw ends the dog block would rack against the side of the bench when getting tightened. (Right?) Is there enough material on the bench top to adequately support the pressure from the dog block to be tightened, and last years? Part of my concern with this is the soft wood I'm using, too.

Guide rails for the dog block seem wise, in addition to supporting the screw at both ends. That's obviously what the Benchcrafted vise does, and I would expect the rails would help it to operate smoothly. Could I create some rails with harder wood strips? Or how about using an aluminum miter track and miter bar?

Any feedback is appreciated!


----------



## Iguana

Dan,

FYI, on the Benchcrafted tail vise, the screw is not supported at both ends. There is support at the end cap, but the dog block (and the rails it slides in) are the other support.

There are a number of ways to design the tail vise without using the BC hardware. Supporting the screw at both ends would work well. I'd avoid aluminum and make hardwood guide rails instead to capture the traveller. Leave a bit of lateral room (1/16" should be enough) between the traveller and the guide so it won't bind. Easy job to replace the guide rails down the road if they wear too much.

And yes, that will be strong enough to last years. I'm assuming you'll lag bolt - or bed-bolt - the end cap to the rest of the top. That connection will effectively determine the ultimate clamping strength, but it is highly unlikely you could provide enough torque by hand to have the tail vise rip out lag bolts.

Make the wearable parts from hardwood, though - the guide rails, whatever you use to capture the buried end of the screw, the traveller. Might even be a good idea to make the dog strip and dogs from hardwood if you plan on doing a lot of heavy clamping.


----------



## MagicalMichael

> Michael, may I suggest take your screw to a machine shop. There are two ways to approach…one is to cut off the worn end and fabricate a replacement. A threaded end on the screw would make it replaceable, i.e. cut the worn part down to a threaded "bolt" and turn a mating female end attachment. The other option is to build some welding beads and turn them back to spec. They might be able to machine a whole new screw for a fairly reasonable price, too. Depends on how hungry they are. Pick a hungry one.
> 
> Well, then there s always JB Weld….
> 
> I have considered contacting a good machine shop. My problem is not with the screw itself but with the part it attache to at the end. In a traditional scandanaian shoulder vice, the end of the screw fits into a slotted piece that gets screwed to the face of the vice. That part has worn enough at the edges that the slot is too large and the screw twists out of it.
> 
> Michael
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


----------



## danwolfgang

Thanks for your insights, Mark!


----------



## Tugboater78

This assembly finalized…









And installed..


















Picked the bench up with the small piece of oak i clamped in the jaw, so id say its stout enough, need to get some leather on the chop still.

Still lots of small things to do.. square up and cap the ends of bench, few more dogholes in apron, shelf in bottom, finish flattening top.


----------



## willyco2608

This is my workbench, the first one i ever built, although i have made some rustic work tables. I made it in Brasil, where i am living now and where I have limited tools. These limitations had a big influence on my design as well as the lumber i had available. I collected lumber and air dried it for about 10 months, before getting into the construction that was done over more or less a month, working weekends and some afternoons and nights. Now that i am using it, feel really happy about it, it is much much easier to work. Both vises are working great. I published on lumberjocks 
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/282954
Will be glad to answer any question


----------



## Tugboater78

Looks sturdy as well as beautiful Willy. What kinda wood is it made from? I Love the coloring

Edit: nevermind i followed link to your project page.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Very nice, Willy.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

Willy, nice bench. That's not exactly how to pull off a Bondo, but it's the sexiest one since Fridge.


----------



## ssnvet

Willy, I envy your access to tropical hardwoods. A friend of mine went to Belize to help build a medical clinic, and he almost cried when he saw the concrete crew using 2×12 Mahogany timbers to form the concrete footings.


----------



## CL810

Really nice Willy!


----------



## willyco2608

Thanks for all the nice comments, like one of a colleagues in Lumberjocks said: NATURE MADE IT I JUST ASSEMBLED IT.
Also I know how lucky i am to have access to tropical woods and since i am forester, that makes things even better to find the right wood.
I have found many pieces of wood, on the garbage pile at sawmills, that have produced beautiful wood for different projects, so i really understand the comment made by Mainiac Matt


----------



## splinter164

A vise fabrication question for this esteemed group of problem solvers. I have a 1.25" Acme threaded rod for a leg vise and intend to mount in in a cast iron wheel.

Is there any reason to remove the threads down to a smooth shaft or can I just install a pin or screw through both the hub and shaft? I seem to live in a machine shop desert, where all that is available are large manufacturing operations, and I don't know anyone with a metal lathe.

I'm also assuming that I can drill a 1.25" hole in a cast iron hub with my drill press, stepping up bits along the way. Thoughts?

BTW - I started this thread during my holiday vacation time and just noticed that I gone through about 13,600 posts (still not done). In many ways, this is better than a good book. I am acquiring parts and materials now, with the hopes of starting my building in a month. When I accomplish this task, I will be standing on the shoulders of giants! My thanks to all of you that have shared your experiences, insight, mistakes and victories in your builds.


----------



## ssnvet

splinter… I have a similar project brewing on the back burner, as I came across a 1.25" ACME screw almost 3' long in the scrap metal bone yard. I got a matching ACME nut from McCmaster-Carr for $7 (cast iron, not bronze) and I have a hand-wheel on my wish list at Grizzly's web site. I think you're going to need to turn down the threads to get the hand wheel to sit square to the shaft with proper bearing surface to pin them together.

Also, when you look at the price of odd size drill bits >1" dia. needed to step up to 1.25", I think you'll have spent quite a bit of money.

Where are you located? If there truly are not garage machine shops in you area, perhaps you could post the screw to one.

I just looked at your home page and see your half way between Chicago and Milwaukee…. keep working on your Google-Foo. I think you'll finds somebody. Try surfing the metal working forums and see if anyone in your area will help you out.


----------



## donwilwol

Just file the threads off. It shouldn't take that long with a good file, and balance should be much of an issue in this application.


----------



## BikerDad

Between Chicago and Milwaukee, is most certainly NOT in a "machine shop desert". Try Green Machine Customs, Ateco Engine & Dyno or Econ Welding & Fabrication.


----------



## Mosquito

although not woodworking related, one of my computer modding buddies was building a low table for taking product review photos, and completely unprompted and not knowing about our Bondo tradition shared this picture after completion, it made me chuckle and think about all the fun we've had seeing people finish their workbenches off the right way here


----------



## Tugboater78

I reckon i need to strike a pose, since mine is pretty much finished..

Couple weeks till i can get home and somehow convince the wife to take the photo…


----------



## splinter164

Mainiac Mike - Thanks for the suggestions on the vice screw. When I googled machine shops locally (10 mile radius) and got all kinds to ISO 9001 parts fabricators, but didn't think I'd be their target market. The suggestions you made didn't come through google, so my bad for not searching in the right direction.

BikerDad - I hadn't considered Green Machine Customs as a it's bike shop, but their site looks perfect for my needs. I've been driving by it for 5 years! Econ Welding as well. Thanks!


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## LJRay

Mos, that's too funny.


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## ssnvet

Splinter, you don't have to be big to get ISO certified.


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## DavidTTU

Hey guys,

I am in my planning stages for a new work bench build. I am basing it off the Benchcrafted classic work bench plans. I have a small shop. And I am stuck on a deciding between a 6ft long or a 7 ft long top. I know the longer the better, but have you found a sweet spot or a minimum length for your bench top length?


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## ssnvet

Others may disagree, but I think 6 ft is long enough for most purposes. Access to all four sides (or at least 3 sides) is important. I wouldn't compromise that in order to get a longer bench.


----------



## Handtooler

I likewise have a smaller shop, so opted for a 5: length 21st Century (Bob Lang) bench. It suits my work super. The fact thak you can remove a tray and clamp from both sides easily is a plus for me. Check out his video on the bench. Mine is 31/2 " thick of pecan and probably weights in at about 275-300lbs


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## Mosquito

My bench is just over 4' long and has worked alright for me so far with what I do. It all depends on what you plan on making/how you plan on using it.


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## revrok

I finally posted my bench in the project section over a year after finishing it… I had visions of posting all my projects on LJ's but just find myself in the shop producing and smiling and oops! I never took a picture of that! Mine is 4 1/2 feet and does all I ask of it… occasionally a project hangs off, but I manage.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/294266


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## drcoelho

I bought one of these: 




The rationale is as follows:
- I have a VERY small space and everything must be mobile and multi-purpose
- the height adjustment and weight capacity allows for use as infeed, outfeed, work table and material movement, and because height is adjustable can infeed/outfeed for any machine in the shop including the drill press
- the versatility, especially with vacuum and other accessories means there isn't anything I can't do with the work bench
And yes, exorbitantly expensive and really feel guilty about that, but given my shop size limitations it has solved a lot of problems that a more traditional space eating work bench would not have.


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## avsmusic1

^^ really nice for sure, but WOW on that price


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## WhoMe

Glad the workbench length came up. I have been struggling with this also. With limited space and the need for some mobility, I'll most likely build about a 5ft bench max. In sure I'll build some storage under the top so it will add to the weight and stability. It is great to hear from those that have been using different lengths and their perspectives.


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## benchbuilder

This should be a blog but this is the right place for it.
I decided I wanted a better leg vise and a pinless vise. I got three oil lite bushings from master carr. One is 4" long and the other two are 1 1/2" long by 1 1/8" ID by 1 3/8 OD. about $15. 
I built the leg 4.5" square and the chop is 2.250" thick. So I set up the drill press and squared up the table to the chuck with a drill in it. I wanted the hole to be about but not more then 2 degrees titled upward in the leg. I drilled the hole and checked it, it was close to the 2 degree tilt but has about that much to the right, this also effects the chop side to side fit. Bummer… I had to plane off the right side to make the hole true to the leg face but keep the upward tilt.
Next I drilled the chop after checking for tilt to the right and squaring that. I placed the bushing into the hole in the chop leaving a bit under 13/16" on the outside facr of the chop. One of the bushings was cut to 3/4" long and attached to the screw a bit over 1/4" in front of the hub on the screw. This shorter bushing rotates in the hole in the chops outside face. The 1/4" thick collar fits around the screw and in front of the bushing on the screw. This holds the screw in place. Now with the bushing in the leg and chop it should be without side to side play and have a nice toe in to not need a pin in the guide bar.RIGHT, WRONG, things dont always go right no matter how much you check and recheck. The toe in is about 1/8" in a 24" run, not too bad and still tightens up on a pice great. But the screw when rotated the hub has a slight wabble and the chop dose have a small titlt to the right. I fixed the right tilt some but still there. My better leg vise isnt as nice as I had hoped but works. Using the bushingds and drilling with a cheap drill press is a bad idea. This all took 4 days a few hours a day, bottom line, good ideas need goog equipment!!!!! Dont be cheap like me and your good ideas will be good..


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## ssnvet

benchbuilder …. please post some pics of your mods. The idea intrigues me.


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## TheFridge

Mine is 4' long and It's always cluttered where I need to work. Gonna build at least a 6'er in the maybe near future.


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## CL810

Yep, pics or it didn't happen. ;-) I too am intrigued.


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## revrok

> Glad the workbench length came up. I have been struggling with this also. With limited space and the need for some mobility, I ll most likely build about a 5ft bench max. In sure I ll build some storage under the top so it will add to the weight and stability. It is great to hear from those that have been using different lengths and their perspectives.
> 
> - WhoMe


I seldom need the extra length on the bench and I am always able to cope when it is short (seldom happens). I use it as my assembly table as well because of limited space (waxed paper is my friend). Don't hesitate to build a 5 foot bench… mine is the best and most used tool in my shop.


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## kiefer

My bench is about 67" long and has an twin screw end vise which when open increases the total length another 12 " and a 29" width makes for a nice work surface but if I had more space available I would go for a longer bench in the 7' to 8' range .
I attach a link that shows the bench with all its features and the tool storage rack above the bench .






Klaus


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## Tugboater78

My bench atm is 5'1" 
I plan on putting an endcap of right side which will give it another inch or two. It is the longest could go and still be able to work around it.

It may end up to be too short in the long haul, but i have always had a similar issue since puberty. I will make it work!


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## duckmilk

^lol


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## benchbuilder

Cant get photos to up load, pls send me your email by pm and I will send the photos of the leg vise showing the bushings, thank, ps, I hate photobucket


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## TheFridge

Try the img button


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## benchbuilder

leg vise bushings
http://i1106.http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h364/parvisernie/th_1485558482939.jpgphotobucket.com/albums/h36http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h364/parvisernie/th_20170127_173725.jpg4/parvisernie/th_20170127_173802-1.jpg


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## Miataguy

> I m finding I really like being able to work on either side of my bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody else find this to be true?
> 
> - theoldfart


I ahve a bench I use as the outfeed for my table saw, I can work either side of that which is really helpful indeed.


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## Miataguy

> I finally posted my bench in the project section over a year after finishing it… I had visions of posting all my projects on LJ s but just find myself in the shop producing and smiling and oops! I never took a picture of that! Mine is 4 1/2 feet and does all I ask of it… occasionally a project hangs off, but I manage.
> 
> http://lumberjocks.com/projects/294266
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Tim Royal


Short benches can be incredibly handy-I ahve a 5 foot workbench and it does everything I ask of it.


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## Miataguy

> This assembly finalized…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And installed..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picked the bench up with the small piece of oak i clamped in the jaw, so id say its stout enough, need to get some leather on the chop still.
> 
> Still lots of small things to do.. square up and cap the ends of bench, few more dogholes in apron, shelf in bottom, finish flattening top.
> 
> - Tugboater78


I absolutely love this workbench….I am a sucker for this style of bench, and you just nailed the look and proportions.


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## MagicalMichael

WTF. How do I get to the latest entry without having to scroll through 17775 entries? I posted on the feedback list but now can't even find that entry? I did see an entry that claims that at the bottom of the page there is a link to the bottom. Not on my screen. The link covers 355 entries, which is 60 pages away from the end! If there is anyone out there with a reliable answer, please contact me at. [email protected] .com. I add that I have been using computers for over 35 years and have one corporate awards for model building but this site totally baffles me.


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## theoldfart

Michael, there is a line in blue that says View All Entries near the top of the screen. Click on it then just select the last page number shown. Then just scroll to the bottom of the page.!


----------



## donwilwol

Leaving the thread and coming back end should bring you to the last page. There is only 15 entries on each page.


----------



## bandit571

this one is getting a bit beat up, lately..









Somewhere between 5-6' long, never did measure it









One of the rare times it is completely cleaned off…..


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## Sylvain

MagicalMichael,
As theoldfart said 
+
My experience is:
If you are not logged, you start always at the first page and the site has no memory of your activity (as you are not known).
If you are logged, you start at the latest visited page while you were logged. 
+
If you place the latest page in your favorite, you can jump to it without being logged. From time to time change your favorite when a new page is added.


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## galooticus

Found enough motivation to post an update here, not enough to do a blog post though.

I'm committed now: the old bench was broken down two weekends ago, and a special trash pickup took it away.

The double tenons for the legs into the top are all cut and fit. I decided to flip it over and use it to square up the stretchers and cut the tenons on them. The legs are still long/tall, putting the top at 36", which is still lower than my old bench was, at 39". Much better; I'm targeting 33 or 34" when finished. Even without glue and stretchers, this bench is way more solid than my old one. No racking in the long direction, and a little in the short direction.

I put in a single 3/4" hole so I could use my (Gramercy) holdfasts while working on the stretchers. This the first time I've ever used a holdfast, so I was pretty excited. Works great after sanding the shaft, as many others have mentioned. Need to get some leather to pad them.

As the picture shows, I used the bench to square up the stretchers and cut the tenons.

I pulled the legs back out and halfway through cutting the stretcher mortises now. After that I need to drill holes for the leg vise and holdfasts, then it's glue time. We're having new (wood) floors installed in the house in a few weeks, so I'm pushing to get all this done by then, with enough time to move the entire house into the garage.

Has anyone ever thought about making a criss-cross setup from wood? Maybe use metal rod/bolts for the axles. Not stiff enough? Too much work? I'm going with the standard pegged board, but can't help wondering.


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## DanKrager

Hey, Galoot. Yes I not only though about it but did it. It works. If I were to build a leg vise I would either use Hovarters quick action or Jim's (the boatman) chain. Those are much stronger with less to go wrong with wear. 
Looks like you've got a roaring good start! Keep at it…want to see it finished.


















DanK


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## kiefer

Galooticus
Here is an option for a inexpensive vise that you may like and you can watch the video of it in action here.





and I also did a how to on this on You Tube 




Project :
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/229242


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## DanKrager

Imma gonna steal Kiefer's idea for my adjustable height bench.










DanK


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## kiefer

Dan
Go ahead and do it and you already have it included in your bench drawing so it should be a piece of cake .
I just made the part 3 video and when I have it ready I will post it on You Tube ,
Take a look at Part 1 and 2 which I posted ( the my previous to Galooticus for the links .
I will post the link to part 3 when I have it up and running .

Klaus


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## kiefer

Here is the link to the Matthies V2 vise Part3 of the series






Enjoy 
Klaus


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## bandit571

Added a wee bit of storage to mine..
.








Still working on it


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## terryR

A strong endorsement for Jim's chain drive. The chain collects dust and needs cleaning occasionally, but the drive works like a dream. Not as sexy as a BC criss-cross, but worth every penny!


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## galooticus

It's amazing how many good options there are for leg vise design, let alone complete alternatives to the leg vise. I don't know what my preferences are yet, so I'm going with the bare minimum classic. I figure the ancestors knew a thing or two. My in-house customer has a long (and growing) list of requests, so I need to get this bench functional and move on to furniture. (and spring yard work, ugh)

Dan, looks like you had to add some things to get it working? I suspected there's issues, otherwise there'd be geniuses like Kiefer tuning it to perfection. I've watched a video or two of yours before Keifer, your design looks like one of the best around.


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## DanKrager

The only thing I "added" to Keifer's design is a side plate to mount the vise to the end plate of the bench, satisfying my modularity policy. This vise hasn't been built yet, and may never be because my Emmert "iron hand" does so well. My Emmert is secured to the front of what looks like a table extension in the drawing. 








This picture was taken before I made the adjustable height modification. The only thing different now is the adjustable height base.
DanK


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## 49er

I started this bench in late January. I thought I would post a picture here, many more on my Blog if anyone is interested. Still a lot to do.


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## galooticus

That's a seriously stout bench, 49er. I bet you're tired of laminating after all that.

Got my bench assembled and glued together without any problems. After fitting all the stretcher tenons individually, I was surprised by how well the whole thing assembled together with no extra fine tuning needed.










House renovations over the next few weeks will keep me from making progress for a while. I still need to plane things flat, make/install the leg vise, drill some dog holes (edit: forgot, the legs still need to be cut down even too!), and a few accessories like dogs, bench hooks, shooting board.


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## theoldfart

Two seriously good looking benches and well designed/built as well. Keep the progress pics coming when you can.


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## MagicalMichael

Here's a question about attaching the top to the legs in a Ruobo style bench, or any bench with flush legs for that matter. I had been considering replacing my well worn 35 year old Tage Frid Scandenavian bench with the Frank Klauz bench and wooden screws, but have been rethinking it and maybe the Hovarater hardware with a face vice & wagon vice is the way I should go. I have looked at a number of the builds on You Tube, and the video series on Fine Woodworking, which has lead me to a very fundamental question. Many of these builds show all four legs with a double through dovetailed tenon into the top. Doesn't that restrict the ability of the top to epand & contract seasonally? Have people had a problem with this? Is there an alternative? Is there something I'm not seeing in these builds?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Michael


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## DanKrager

I'm going Hovarter when I can afford it, for sure on the wagon vise.

DanK


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## CL810

Michael, my bench is only 3 years old but I've had no problem. The only issue would be between the tenons which is only an inch or so and that isn't enough to worry about, IMHO.


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## bandit571

Finally got around to cleaning out the tool well…









Of course, it promptly filled up with…tools, again. To make things easier the next time I clean out the well..









Added a ramp down on the operator's end. Now I can just sweep things out using the ramp. Angled cuts on each end, and it is just nailed in place.

Made use of a plane stop today..









Just a piece of old saw plate. The teeth engage any wood clamped between them and the end vise. 









Screwed to a 3/4" dowel that acts as a dog. I push the plane stop down almost flat, as I use it for boards like these..









Been a busy day, today


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## lysdexic

Micheal, if the top is laminated then the grain is usually oriented perpendicular to the bench top and, as L810 states, it is not a problem. However, my bench top is attached with Spax screws in an elongated hole..


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## MagicalMichael

Thanks, Lysdexic, that clarifies it for me. Since my current bench is a traditional scandinavian, whenever I at bench tops I think about accounting for movement. The lamination would be more dimensionally stable, but I would suspect that over 24" it could still have some movement. Also, the screws will make disassembly for moving easier. That may sound like a small think, but I am in my 70's and now think about how large things will someday need to get from my home in Vermont, to my son in California. BTW, the underside of your bench looks very nice, can you share more photos?

Michael


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## MagicalMichael

OK, I found your projects and blog.
Michael


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## Sylvain

Michael,
Lysdexic's bench has a split top, so he has upper rails to support the two top.

On a single-top Roubo bench (like the one of CL810) , there are no upper rail. So any top expansion will have to be absorbed by the elasticity of the legs and lower rail assembly.


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## 49er

Michael, on my bench I thought a lot about wood movement and the orientation of the grain. I did not peg my outside stretcher. It is a floating mortise and tenon. It's only purpose is to hold a bottom shelf and the sliding dead man. The inside stretchers are attached with lag bolts at the center of the legs so the legs can move freely. The center of the leg should not move. The lag bolts will not be seen when the shelf is added. 
The through mortises obviously works and has a cool factor but I like the strength and simplicity of a solid top sitting on four large tendons that is free to move as it wants over time. I have more pics in my blog.


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## lysdexic

''Tis true



> Michael,
> Lysdexic s bench has a split top, so he has upper rails to support the two top.
> 
> On a single-top Roubo bench (like the one of CL810) , there are no upper rail. So any top expansion will have to be absorbed by the elasticity of the legs and lower rail assembly.
> 
> - Sylvain


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## 49er

17763 replies in this thread and I post twice and the thread dies.
Either it's me or the thread is just mature, wonder which it is?


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## bandit571

Nope, thread is still ongoing…









Many are just using their benches, is all….


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## haskins

I built a split top workbench from 2×4s and 2×6s It took 2 weekends to build, but may have been faster with plans. There is a 2 part video series on it.
Part 1-



Part 2-



The workbench has about 150 pounds of sand in it, that plus the wood probably brings it to about 250. I will publish another video on my channel in a couple of days explaining my thought process behind building it, and the reasons I did what I did, If there are any questions PLEASE ASK them, so i can answer them in the overview video. If you are wandering about something, somebody else probably is as well. If you liked this installment then please subscribe. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRuWi7P7eIcNOckoxBI-ZRA


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## lysdexic

> 17763 replies in this thread and I post twice and the thread dies.
> Either it s me or the thread is just mature, wonder which it is?
> 
> - 49er


The thread can only be as mature as its contributors, no?



> ......If there are any questions PLEASE ASK them, so i can answer them in the overview video. If you are wandering about something, somebody else probably is as well.
> 
> - Blake Haskins


I have a question: do have any plans for clamping capabilities? Leg vise, wagon vise, tail vise?


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## duckmilk

> The thread can only be as mature as its contributors, no?
> 
> - lysdexic


Which explains Stef's thread.

Thoughts on wood expansion/contraction, my shop has wood floors, walls and ceiling and I don't notice much change in humidity inside. That may be very different than if your shop is in a garage or basement. Also, many people who have posted benches here have sealed them with oil or whatever, which should limit movement somewhat.

Nice benches 49er and Galooticus (would call you Andy, but there are enough Andys here already)


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## Bertha

My bench is all mortise and tenon with all-thread running across the lamination and lag screws holding my wagon end cap. The all thread gives you a good glimpse into movement and although my shop is humidity and temperature controlled, my small bench moved a solid 3/4 inch over the year. Theoretically, my legs should move in cooperation with my top and although they're likely not from the same tree, they're both kiln dried, of the same species, and were at the same moisture when joined. If I was using a hardware mounted top, I would do exactly what Scotty describes; slippery slotted holes. 'tis true, Scotty wrote the book on slippery holes. Without the all-thread (which I wasn't wild about using), I was worried that if my dovetailed legs swelled, it would split my top lamination to disastrous effect. I had a huge endgrain butcher's block do precisely that within my home. Its collapse was heralded by an explosive ripping sound before the crash of 200 pounds of maple. I take wood movement very seriously now, especially in an extremely personal and emotional build like a bench.


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## duckmilk

Thank you Al for sharing your experience. How wide (or deep depending on how you look at it) is your bench top and was it sealed? Just wanting to get more info before I start mine. I want about 26" in width cause what I have now is only 24" and am tired of putting a piece of plywood on it to support wider stuff.


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## Bertha

Hey Duck, mine is 30" x 65" x 3 3/4" fir. No tool tray. Wagon vise set a little to far from the front edge for my tastes. It's the only thing I would change at this point. 10" legs dovetailed into the top. BLO only. I've had to tooth the surface once since it was built (just dirty, not misshapen) and re-applied. He're's the link:

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/180234


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## DLK

If you can get to all sides of the workbench, then the width is not an issue.

But if it is close to a wall that holds your tools, then the bench width must be narrow enough so that you can reach them. Mine is 23" wide and sits 4 inches away from the tool wall. My grab-reach with out bending is 26", so it works pretty well.

You can clamp a bar clamp in the end vise and secure over-wide stock with it.

Something like this but with the clamp end on the the side of the end vise so that stock is mostly on the bench no need for a piece of plywood on it to support wider stuff :










See Paul Sellers clamping system.. It has made a big difference in how I work in my small shop.


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## duckmilk

Mine will be sort of in the middle of the room with lots of access to all 4 sides. I have a thrown together one that is 24" wide that I had to put some plywood on a couple of times to support the legs of something I was working on which happened to be wider than the worktop. I have a 26" wide utility plywood top bench against the wall that I have no problem with as far as reaching the back.

I'll have to see how much wood I have saved up for the top. That would be the limiting factor for bench width.

Those are some massive legs Al.


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## Hammerthumb

I agree with the wider width for the top Duck. As long as you have room around all sides. MIne is slightly over 30" and could be a problem to reach over if it was against st a wall. I love having the extra depth for some projects.


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## duckmilk

A friend of mine was clearing out a bunch of old stored wood. He mostly builds bars for restaurants and has done a lot for TGI Fridays including the bars they put in DFW airport during the remodel there. I took Putty with me and he gave us a bunch of leftover bartop material. What I got was mostly oak and walnut with a few nice pieces of mahogany as well as a massive oak board I will use for legs. I posted some of these pictures previously somewhere on LJs.

He works out of an old 84 Lumber Co. warehouse. Here is where we were picking from:










The load in my pickup:










Some of the boards leaning against my shop wall which is 9' tall:










How the bar boards tongue and groove together:










And some of the mahogany:



















It's OK, you can say it ;-)


----------



## ADN

Mine is a split top and have 360 deg access, really use it as 2 benches, currently has 3 vises, BC crisscross leg, LN tail and and old Sheldon sliding…think I'm going to add a 24" LN twin screw but need to make sure it will fit.

The "backside" of my bench is a little less than 14" and the LN installation guide says it needs 18", but looks like l can be around that by having the screw holes go all the way through to the gap between the tops….

My overall width is just under 35" and I'm very happy with it, might even add a couple more inches :-O

Andy


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## ssnvet

> It s OK, you can say it ;-)
> - duckmilk


YOU SUCK!


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## haskins

> 17763 replies in this thread and I post twice and the thread dies.
> Either it s me or the thread is just mature, wonder which it is?
> 
> - 49er
> 
> No, funny that you ask though, I ordered a yost vice, and had intended to make it clamp long ways on the bench, however it is larger than expected and will be going on across the overhang.
> 
> The thread can only be as mature as its contributors, no?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ......If there are any questions PLEASE ASK them, so i can answer them in the overview video. If you are wandering about something, somebody else probably is as well.
> 
> - Blake Haskins
> 
> I have a question: do have any plans for clamping capabilities? Leg vise, wagon vise, tail vise?
> 
> - lysdexic


----------



## haskins

I just did an overview style video on my bench 
check it out-


----------



## CL810

If you're looking to save a few bucks on a Benchcrafted Solo Plus. Sure they won't last long.

http://benchcrafted.blogspot.com/


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## duckmilk

Thanks for the overview Blake. I always like seeing the thought process behind why and how.

Clayton, I also looked at their swing away seat. That is a cool concept. I seem to remember seeing something similar before. Now I'm thinking how one could be made entirely from wood, hmmm. Something like hickory, or locust, which grows abundantly here with huge thorns of course.


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## theoldfart

Be careful where you locate those thorns on the seat Duck!


----------



## duckmilk

I need to take some pictures of those thorns for you Kev. Some are 2" long with 2 shorter thorns growing out of the main thorn. Nasty looking buggers

Edit: Found one, not the best picture, but you can see thorns growing out of the main trunk even.


----------



## CL810

I looked at the seat as well Duck. I spent a lot of time looking for the dimensions, did you run across them?


----------



## DanKrager

Those look like honey locust because they have the 4-8" long thorns as ID. The 2" branched thorns up to 4" or so are black locust. They both are coated with a very irritating waxy stuff that burns like fire when they prick your skin. The thorns of both trees are strong and sharp enough to penetrate any steel belted tire or shoe tread, and if you find one thorn, you'll generally find others sooner or later. Beautiful wood, but hard to work around.

DanK


----------



## duckmilk

I'm not sure Dan, I seem to remember black locust. This is north central TX just south of OK. I cut a sapling years ago to make a twitch out of it. When I drilled some holes in the end for the rope, the drill bit started smoking and it smelled like popcorn.


----------



## DanKrager

Things are different in Texas…bigger, I understand.

DanK


----------



## rad457

> Thanks for the overview Blake. I always like seeing the thought process behind why and how.
> 
> Clayton, I also looked at their swing away seat. That is a cool concept. I seem to remember seeing something similar before. Now I m thinking how one could be made entirely from wood, hmmm. Something like hickory, or locust, which grows abundantly here with huge thorns of course.
> 
> - duckmilk


I believe Kiefer made a seat for a sliding deadman?


----------



## kiefer

Andre you mean this one








I can move it from side to side and also at the front or back of the bench and simply store it at the end or even turn it around and have it under the bench .
Here is the link to my post
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/97940

Klaus


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## ssnvet

> The 2" branched thorns up to 4" or so are black locust.
> DanK
> - Dan Krager


The house I grew up in had a dozen or more Black Locust in the yard and they didn't look anything like these photos. The trunks were tall, straight and slender, with the canopy of steep branches opening up ~20'+ above the ground. Thorns were nasty, but I don't recall them being more than an inch. The ridges in the bark were very deep…. like this…


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## duckmilk

That's the seat I was thinking of. Thanks Kiefer!


----------



## duckmilk

Dan, I just looked it up on the Texas A&M Forest Service site. It is indeed a Honeylocust aka Honey Locust, Gleditsia triacanthos. The thorns, straight or branched, appear on the one year old trunk, branches and twigs and remain for several years. The bark is relatively smooth and dark.


----------



## Miataguy

> I shall post my ugly as sin rock solid bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as a dream bench. A solid Roubo style with no tool well would fit the bill quite well. Anything that weighs 400+ should be fine.
> 
> - RGtools


That's the best kind of bench…it has been used to build things.


----------



## Spelcher

Yet another brilliant idea Kiefer! I love how you can quickly remove the seat if it's in the way…

Nice lumber score Duck. I find both black and honey locust are great woods to work with, and really beautiful colour and grain - we have a lot planted in the city in Vancouver and I'm always excited when I find a log of either to mill, or bowl blanks.

Michael, I'm a bit late to chime in, but I was worried about the huge amount of wood movement I get in my damp shop, so I opted to install the top with large blind tenons. Those at the front of the bench are tight and oriented with the length of the bench (to keep the front edge flush with the legs), and those at the rear are oriented perpendicular with extra room in the mortise to accommodate seasonal movement. It's worked great so far between a hot, dry summer and a soaking wet winter. The back edge of the bench has moved more than 1/4" over that time…


----------



## rad457

Made a little clamp vise for holding Dovetail work for the top of my bench. Finally got to try out my wood threader from Lee Valley. Made from leftover hard maple from the bench. 
Moxon Vise next up after I rest awhile!


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## duckmilk

Nice Andre.

Too bad all this honeylocust is on corps of engineers property. I read how nice the lumber was.


----------



## BurlyBob

Duck, I had a girlfriend once with a heart kinda like those thorns. Thankfully I didn't have her long.


----------



## kiefer

Andre 
That look like a nice vise for cutting dove tails
A few more pictures would be nice .
Klaus


----------



## kiefer

Thanks Duck and Jason 
Just thought I post the link as it is way back in my projects and it's all made from wood .

Klaus


----------



## rad457

Not sure if these pictures show any more, concept is simple(like me) but works real good. The scrap Teak came in handy to make washer/risers for the Oak Nuts. Those Mastercraft Forstner bits finally got some work!


----------



## 49er

I cut several thorned Honey Locust in 1977 when I moved here. They are too dangerous to have around. They make good fence post.


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## duckmilk

Understood, but from what I read, the trunk eventually overgrows the early thorns. You would still have them on smaller branches however. I have fixed a couple of flat tires from those things.


----------



## Spelcher

That came out great Andre! What cool looking screws and knobs!

We're lucky over here with honeylocusts - as they're exotic, they're mostly planted, and the nurseries bring in thornless varieties. When they sucker, though, they revert to big thorny monsters.


----------



## Spelcher

On the topic of wood movement in shops with large swings in humidity - my hybrid wagon vise was getting a bit sticky this winter and I spent some time yesterday tuning it up. I noticed that the beech laminates in the bench top moved very differently from the tropical hardwood - enough that those parts (front and back of top) are now a little proud of the rest of the top. Definitely considerations to ponder when selecting multiple species for tops. I though mine would be safe as both seemed to be pretty stable woods… Hopefully in the summer the benchtop will flatten out again.

Here the European beech is proud of the tropical hardwood (can anyone tell me what species it is?) both on the front edge, and, harder to see, on the bench top. Both were very flush and joints tight when I put the bench together in the summer…


----------



## Spelcher

In case anyone wants to see how the vise is put together - I took some photos as I disassembled and reassembled to take some tension out of the benchtop. Wood moves so much in my shop, that I made the design a bit extra complicated so that it could easily be completely disassembled for adjustments.

I'm super happy with how it works and find it faster than any other wagon option I've tried. Just flipping the quick release lever on the Record vise allows super fast adjustment in and out. Closing the vise with a bit of force disengages the magnet from the traveller so it can be used as an end vise, and a quick click backward 1/8 inch on the dog re-engages it. This setup has the added advantage of having an additional dog hole in the moving chop so so you can easily clamp longer boards for face planing.




























Here you can see where the beech has moved, the beech tail has moved downward from the tropical pin (both the top and bottom are lower, while the top of the beech laminate is above the tropical end cap- it took some careful pressure to put it back together:






















































And here's the recessed magnet in the chop that grabs the wagon traveller









And a video I made showing the action of the vise:


----------



## TheFridge

Everything I've read about European beech says it has a lot of movement in service.


----------



## CL810

Jason that is pretty slick.


----------



## Buckethead

^^^ some clever engineering

PS: any reddish but unidentified specie of tropical hardwood may referred to as Brazilian cherry without much scorn.


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks guys, Brazilian cherry it is 

I wish I had looked up beech stability before adding it to the bench… It was on clearance at the hardwood supplier and I'd always wanted to try working it. I guess this means I'll have to buy that climate-controlled dream shop I've always wanted.


----------



## kiefer

Well it's done and working great looking at the video.
Nice to see my concept operating a tail or wagon vise with the tail vise .
Here is a bit of caution that you should be aware of about magnets 
Neodymium magnets are made of a hard, brittle material. Despite being made of metal, and the shiny, metallic appearance of their nickel plating, they are not as durable as steel.

Neodymium magnets can peel, chip, crack or shatter if allowed to slam together. Eye protection should be worn when handling magnets, since shattering magnets can launch small pieces at great speeds.

Neodymium magnets are not easily drilled or machined.


----------



## Spelcher

Thanks again for the inspiration for the vise Kiefer!

Good advice on the magnets too. I have the magnet on the vise recessed inside a cup washer, so that the washer bears on the vise rod and there is about 1/32" gap between the magnet and the rod - I think the washer gets magnetized and helps to grab. It seems to be the perfect amount of grabbiness: I need to shut the vise firmly to get the magnet to release.


----------



## Biddles

Hello all, this is my first post! I've been lurking around lumberjocks for a while now gaining insight, and I've been slowly accumulating tools for my basement shop. I've been into woodworking for a long time, I've unfortunately always built furniture with very crappy tools yielding less then stellar results.

This year I turned 30 and decided to invest in some real tools, and I was in the process of assembling my new table saw when I saw this on craigslist for free and couldn't believe it. It's a Christiansen Co Workbench! Free! I got it from an old man who said it belonged to his old man's friend. It's beat up pretty bad, a bit wobbly, the vise screws have chips in them which don't allow them to spin with ease, sometimes they get stuck or don't work at all. It's obviously not flat, and all around it needs a lot of love.

I know what I want to do, but I'm curious as to what you all would do and in what order.





































Personally I love the design. It makes me want to build one just like it. I love how the table top just comes right off the stand and sits into the notch, and stays in place. So what do you guys think?

Here are larger pics of the bench. I realized it's hard to see on here.

http://oi65.tinypic.com/a4o314.jpg
http://oi63.tinypic.com/efnfvm.jpg


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## BurlyBob

Try putting some wax, like Minwax finishing wax on those threads. That should help them quite a bit. the only other thing might be a good cleaning. I wouldn't do to much to it. You want to save the character and history of that bench. It's super cool.


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## DLK

After a good cleaning and inspection to remove any stray metal bits in the top. I would take out your no 7 or 8 jointer and flatten it. (if you don't have proper hand tools you can flatten it with a router sled.) See if you get the wobble out of the base by tightening up the joints or build a new base that has some weight to it.


----------



## Marcial

Biddles- Great find. I would clean it up to see how much patina and original parts can be kept. Then keep the structurally sound parts and replace the useless components. It won't be an antique anymore but would then be a start to a really useful and unique bench. Keep us posted.


----------



## ToddJB

Biddles, here's what I did with mine. I love it and use it every time I'm in the shop.

http://lumberjocks.com/ToddJB/blog/series/7155

Great find. Whatever you choose to do with it, just make it keep going.


----------



## DLK

*Biddles* do what *ToddJB* did!

*ToddJB* thanks for posting that link. Is it finished completely now?


----------



## DanKrager

Doesn't that workbench get a "you suck" award? For FREE?

DanK


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## ToddJB

DonK, the original unit is completely done, yes. The bank of drawers for under it are still just a mental construct.

DanK, yes, yes he does deserve a Y.S.


----------



## DLK

ToddJB: O.K. it did seemed in part 8 that there would be the bank of drawers coming in the next episode that you were committed to building.

Biddles: A Y.S. and may you have meany more.


----------



## theoldfart

"meany more" Bench envy Don?


----------



## DLK

> "meany more" Bench envy Don?
> 
> - theoldfart


Funny. LOL I don't know how it happens.


----------



## DanKrager

I know how it happens. Spell checker, I hate your shirt.

DanK


----------



## ssnvet

Great find Biddles. Good luck on the re-hab.

I suggest using a router sled on two dead straight rails to flatten the top, as you can remove the minimum amount of material and get it right the first time.


----------



## theoldfart

Spell checker,. the new grate satin!


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## bandit571

Somewhere, under all of this stuff, .....









There MIGHT be a bench….


----------



## DanKrager

What else could hold up that much stuff, Bandit?

DanK


----------



## bandit571

I'd build a bigger one, but there just isn't enough room down there in the Dungeon Shop..


----------



## ssnvet

Bandit…. you'll have to name your next dungeon shop cat Egor :^p


----------



## Biddles

It's going to take a while before I get to actually work on it. I'm letting it get acclimated to my basement/dehumidifier. It is a bit of a dungeon, all work in progress as the floor beams collapsed, and I had to reset a bunch of them. I still need some plywood for the flooring.

Awesome stuff ToddJB. I read the entire series. Your bench is almost identical, as if it was made in the same factory, just with a few differences. Mine also has that separation line… So I'm glad I can go straight to your bank of experience and borrow that. It's a bit wobbly, going to see if I can tighten up some of the bolts and how that helps. Unfortunately these vices both need a bit of work. The one on the left is missing something that keeps it straight, the wood falls down and the vise opens/closes at an angle. The other wood screw however is chewed up pretty bad. I think it needs replacement. Any idea on where to get a replacement screw for these is appreciated. A quick search and I found this on ebay, but unsure if the size is right. Maybe someone knows of a better replacement?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/262907877606?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## DLK

Lee valley. sells the the lake erie kits.

And perhaps you can just buy the screw alone from Lake erie tool works.

Anyway this gives you someone to call and talk to.

You can also make one using the beal threader or by other methods just search "Making wooden screws" or "Making wooden vises" etc.

You can in theory buy a router bit and use the the nut and screw you have to guide a dowel through the bit and make a new screw.

Making a screw is way more easier (or cheaper) then making a nut. You generally have to either buy a tap (expensive) or make a scraper (dubious) to make a nut.


----------



## theoldfart

Try Lake Erie Toolworks for wooden vise screws.


----------



## donwilwol

That's a great bench and a great find. Its got some value to it. I would use it, but i would suggest being extremely careful what kind of rehab gets done. I definitely wouldn't take a plane to the top.

Restore what needs to be restored to make it usable ( restore, not repair!) And use it and enjoy the history in it.


----------



## DLK

But … traditionally I thought benches were built to be flattened from time to time… so I thought taking a plane to the top would be admissible.


----------



## ToddJB

Biddles, if you need a good pic of anything particular that yours is missing let me know. I'm happy to oblige.

I'll also add, mine was flat enough for me after a light scrapping, and after 3 years of working on it you cannot tell visually where I scraped.


----------



## knockknock

> Bandit…. you ll have to name your next dungeon shop cat Egor :^p
> 
> - Mainiac Matt


I can't resist:

Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: You must be Igor. 
[He pronounces it ee-gor]

Igor: No, it's pronounced "eye-gor."

Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: But they told me it was "ee-gor."

Igor: Well, they were wrong then, weren't they?


----------



## DLK

Very likely a good scraping is indeed all you need and it will likely be good enough for most work. What restoration you do, depends on what you what your plans are for it. House furniture, power work shop, hand tool workshop, resale?


----------



## revrok

A great tutorial on making a screw and nut of any size https://www.youtube.com/user/MrCartersAccount... Also as nice a bench build as I've seen… only hybrid Roubo/Scandinavian bench I've ever seen.


----------



## DLK

> A great tutorial on making a screw and nut of any size https://www.youtube.com/user/MrCartersAccount... Also as nice a bench build as I ve seen… only hybrid Roubo/Scandinavian bench I ve ever seen.
> 
> - Tim Royal


That link fails. Remove the dots on the end. See this.


----------



## donwilwol

> But … traditionally I thought benches were built to be flattened from time to time… so I thought taking a plane to the top would be admissible.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I don't know that this is true. I've yet to see an old bench, no matter how old, with a thin top from flattening. I've also never read old text that talks about it. That definitely doesn't mean it's not out there though.


----------



## ADN

Don't think it needs to be as flat as most "experts" today advise, but generally smooth and flat is required.

As far as smoothing that wonderful bench, if it were mine I'd smooth it, and use, but that's me….most likely won't take much, and the old benches used the very best stock most of the time, so it may only need touching up every few years, if that.

Would try and keep repairs period correct and out of the same type wood.

Don there are old books that talk about smooth and flat bench tops as a requirement, but don't recall if any specifically talk about it as maintenance, but I would assume that's a given.

If you bought it to use it, then I'd use it, and maintain it….but it's your decision.

Great bench,
Andy


----------



## bandit571

Shop Cat is called Campy….or rather Sir Campy









Aka Mr. Attitude…


----------



## DLK

Hmmm….. O.K. .... I don't know where I got the idea that from time to time flattening needs to be done. Bandit don't we see you re-flatten the bench top or do you just scrape.


----------



## Spelcher

Wow - what a score! One consideration if it does need a flattening is to let it acclimatize for a long time in your shop before considering it. It would be a shame to flatten it once, then have it move again… Also, if any parts knock down, take it apart and put it back together again to relieve tension?


----------



## bandit571

Tend to plane things flat as needed.


----------



## donwilwol

I can understand flatten a bench when you build it, or if you've moved it across country to a completely different climate, but other than that, why would it move enough to matter?

I guess the question I've had and never asked on several post is "how flat does a bench need to be?" I think the internet has accentuated a non issue in my opinion.


----------



## DLK

DonW it could be just as you say. Mostly I just scape off the crud. (If I had room for a glue up and finishing table, there would be no crud.)


----------



## bandit571

When a piece of wood rocks on my bench, while I am trying to clamp it down for joinery work…..I go after the high spots with a plane, until the board doesn't rock. I don't use a fancy straightedge to check, though, I just place the board back onto the bench to check for rocking. 









Checked the bench when I built it, and planed as needed









Other than normal wear and tear, haven't needed to straightedge it since.


----------



## Brit

> "how flat does a bench need to be?".
> 
> - Don W


Personally I think if you're within 1/16" you're fine.


----------



## ssnvet

I rehabbed an old industrial hard maple bench and flattened it with a router. Since then all I've done to it is scrape glue and squirt some oil on it every six months or so.

My bench has always had a slight dip (~1/16") in one corner, but aside from that it is still dead flat, after ~7 years.

YMMV, but it ain't exactly rocket science to figure out. Every shop needs a trust worthy straight edge. Get one and put it to good use.


----------



## duckmilk

Biddles, how thick is that bench top?


----------



## Biddles

> Biddles, how thick is that bench top?
> 
> - duckmilk


It is 2.5" thick. The end boards are thicker. I know some might look at is as a sin, but I'm thinking of planing the entire top of the bench. It's really beat up, and for me to make use out of it, I need it to be flatter. It's really been beaten up over the years. In the end, a bench is a bench, and it needs to be functional. I'll do my best to restore it, while making it fully operational and keeping the same look. Some parts have to be reglued. Going to tweak around tonight, still putting my new table saw together though.


----------



## ToddJB

If the bottom is not beat up, and is flat, it might be worth taking it to a cabinet shop with a wide belt sander - if re-flattening is the route you want to go.


----------



## revrok

Thanks You are correct… this is the right link! https://www.youtube.com/user/MrCartersAccount



> A great tutorial on making a screw and nut of any size https://www.youtube.com/user/MrCartersAccount... Also as nice a bench build as I ve seen… only hybrid Roubo/Scandinavian bench I ve ever seen.
> 
> - Tim Royal
> 
> That link fails. Remove the dots on the end. See this.
> 
> - Combo Prof


----------



## Biddles

Well I tightened up a few bolts on the legs, and this thing isn't wobbling any more! That was easier then I expected. Still lots to do.


----------



## DLK

> Well I tightened up a few bolts on the legs, and this thing isn t wobbling any more! That was easier then I expected. Still lots to do.
> 
> - Biddles


Amazing isn't it. I once had the same problem with a wobbly bench and tightening the bolts is all it took.


----------



## gargey

> Biddles, how thick is that bench top?
> 
> - duckmilk
> 
> It is 2.5" thick. The end boards are thicker. I know some might look at is as a sin, but I m thinking of planing the entire top of the bench. It s really beat up, and for me to make use out of it, I need it to be flatter. It s really been beaten up over the years. In the end, a bench is a bench, and it needs to be functional. I ll do my best to restore it, while making it fully operational and keeping the same look. Some parts have to be reglued. Going to tweak around tonight, still putting my new table saw together though.
> 
> - Biddles


+1.

My thoughts:
1) The point of the bench is to be useful. To be useful it has to be flat (as flat as you want your resulting work to be). It is normal to flatten a benchtop from time to time as needed.

B) A jointer handplane is the fastest way by far (compared to a router sled) unless the bench is dramatically out-of-whack (i.e. newbuild).

2) Focus on the front of the bench near where you stand and where you hand plane. That's where flatness really matters.

3) Scraping your bench will make it smooth but will make it LESS flat.

4) That bench will never be on antiques roadshow. Don't worry about losing patina on the top.


----------



## ADN

> Well I tightened up a few bolts on the legs, and this thing isn t wobbling any more! That was easier then I expected. Still lots to do.
> 
> - Biddles


Biddles:

Are the dog holes about 7/8×7/8? Have friends who have one that looks very close to the same…also has a metal planing stop built in the shoulder vise end.

Andy


----------



## pontic

Simple bench for a simple mind!


----------



## Iguana

pontic, I think you just killed this thread! No posts here in 8 days is some kind of (bad) record…


----------



## DLK

We are all too busy making stuff on our new workbenches.


----------



## waho6o9

complicated is easy, simple is difficult


----------



## kiefer

If anybody cares I just posted a add on for my bench .








http://lumberjocks.com/projects/314178


----------



## Spelcher

Awesome Klaus - it will be great being able to hold detail work so much higher


----------



## pontic

I'm very impressed Klaus. Especially that emblem you put on it.

Now this thread will stop for another 8 days! LOL


----------



## bandit571

I used to build concrete foundations…..we would use an "insert" where we needed to add a pilaster/pier to the wall.

Thinking that you can get a #12 (1") rebar and have it threaded ( we used to get even larger ones that were threaded) plus the insert to match…..You could attach the insert to a bench's leg. The threaded rebar would go through the chop, and engage the insert. You could add a collar to the chop, add a 1" "T" pipe joint to the threaded end sticking through the chop. Add a handle of your choice through the "T" fitting…

Rebar was usually threaded @ 6tpi acme threads….you may be able to order a different tap & die…...


----------



## DLK

Looking at *Pontic*'s simple bench it occurs to me one only needs the bench to be "thick" where you will place hold fasts. So I think a cleaver design could be mades that requires far less wood. Say 2 inches thick except over a beam or two that are 4 or 6 inches thick.


----------



## waho6o9

> Looking at *Pontic* s simple bench it occurs to me one only needs the bench to be "thick" where you will place hold fasts. So I think a cleaver design could be mades that requires far less wood. Say 2 inches thick except over a beam or two that are 4 or 6 inches thick.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Bingo. That's exactly what I did and it works well for my needs.


----------



## MagicalMichael

A sliding deadman question. I'm still at a design conceptualization stage and have been wondering about a sliding deadman. Do users find that the construction complicates clamping something to the top of the bench? Do you rely entirely on bench holdfasts for that task? Have you gotten enough use out of it to justify the effort?

Michael


----------



## ssnvet

Magic….

Are you a Christopher Swartz kind of woodworker? Or a Norm Abrams kind of woodworker?

Do you do a lot of hand planing? Or do you own a jointer? That will pretty much answer your question.


----------



## DLK

Michael, the sliding deadman slides and can also be removed, thus will not interfere with clamping to the top.
I mostly but not entirely rely on holdfasts. I use the deadman to support long boards when edge planing and jointing.
The effort is minimal to make a deadman, so yes worth the effort. I have no clue what Matt is trying to say.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Michael, a sliding deadman / leg vise combo is something I wouldn't do without. It's used to support longer work when working the edges of boards and panels. Compared to the number of times I've clamped work to the bench top (once or twice, maybe) the way you're describing, the deadman gets a ton of use.


----------



## Spelcher

Michael, if you're concern is whether the groove on the underside of the front edge would make clamping difficult, you can set it back a bit and make it narrower. Here's a pic of the underside of my bench after routing the groove:










I've definitely found the sliding deadman well worth it. I use it a lot and as Don says, you can just pull up on it and pull the bottom out at the same time to remove it in one motion in the rare cases when it's in the way - super easy…


----------



## CL810

Michael, +1 to above. I use my deadman often and I use several jigs regularly that require I clamp them to the front of my bench. I personally would not have a bench without a deadman. Go with a smaller groove, like Jason's, and you won't regret it.


----------



## theoldfart

+ 1 to all the above deadman comments. I have not found a downside to having one yet. Get a few Stanley 203's and it is a workhorse of a bench appliance.


----------



## MagicalMichael

> Michael, the sliding deadman slides and can also be removed, thus will not interfere with clamping to the top.
> I mostly but not entirely rely on holdfasts. I use the deadman to support long boards when edge planing and jointing.
> The effort is minimal to make a deadman, so yes worth the effort. I have no clue what Matt is trying to say.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> Thanks for all the feedback. This really answers the question I have in mind. I have been working off a Tage Frid model Scandanavian style bench for the past 35 years and have decided it is time for a new bench. I have settled on a wagon vice rather than the more complicated end vice and the Hovarter face vice ( https://www.hovartercustomvise.com/product/face-vise-hardware-kit/


 ) I rarely work with pieces larger than 3' and when I do have used the shoulder vice and clamped things to the front or rested things, like drawers, on a small stool. I don't have any holdfast so have always relied on clamping when the vice & dog holds wont work. I haven't decided yet whether to go with a trestle or 4 leg base, with the deadman being the big advantage of the latter.
Michael


----------



## Spelcher

I had the same problem deciding between 4 legs or trestle, but I came up with an ideal solution:










Now, depending on what style works best for any given project, I can just flip the bench upside down and continue working


----------



## CL810

Ah, the ever versatile flip bench! Love it!


----------



## bandit571

meanwhile…









This old bench ( sounds like a TV Show title?) keeps on soldiering on….added the little chest and shelf.

End vise, leg vise, and a Crochet. Dog holes as needed. Don't have any holdfasts..yet..









For some reason, seeing the bench THIS clean is a very rare sight, indeed….more like this..









Just an old (4 years!!) workbench…


----------



## galooticus

Done.

It's actually been finished for a while now. I'm going to handworks in IA next week, and told myself I had to get this posted before then. I just finished a blog posting marathon, part 1 starts here:

http://lumberjocks.com/galooticus/blog/99650


----------



## theoldfart

Beautiful Andy, should serve you we'll for many years.


----------



## DLK

Nicely done andy.

A while back some one asked about is a sliding deadman worth it. I used mine today to even up 24 by 32 inch panels. It made it easy to do a good job. I would have otherwise had to rig up a temporary support.


----------



## theoldfart

^ +1 fer shur


----------



## DanKrager

That IS a beauty, Andy. Give yourself a kudo and a pat on the back!

Needs a deadman and a crochet…. just some accessories that will come with time.

DanK


----------



## CL810

Well done Andy! Congrats!


----------



## galooticus

Thanks. Doing my part to keep this thread interesting. Sliding deadman, and an end/tail vise, are in the back of my mind to do as add-ons if I ever find myself wishing I had them. Not yet, but I've only been doing a series of wimpy picture frames so far. I have a Stickley-inspired end table on deck. Feels like I'm set to do proper woodworking now. A vise, dogs, and holdfasts are total game changers compared to my old warped counter top bench.


----------



## rad457

Mighty fine Bench! Hey are Bondo's still required upon completion?


----------



## bandit571

Yep!


----------



## theoldfart

Bondo, Bondo, Bondo screams the crowd.

Edit: Andy did better than all of us. He pre-Bondo'd. See his first blog post on his bench build! Bravo Andy.


----------



## Nick424

Well, my Workbench/assembly table is finished. I am not a bloger so here is the condensed version….
My son gave me the Benchcrafted hardware for Christmas. He said he was "investing in his inheritance". He bought hardware, and will end up with a workbench.









On Jan 9th we had time to get hard maple for the bench, and for a project for my brother.









I used an aluminum extrusion I have to clamp glue-ups and keep them strait and true.









Mortise and tenons cut and test fit.









Legs all glued up and pinned.









Legs complete.









Bedtime, more of my journey tomorrow…..


----------



## TheFridge

I also love him like a son…


----------



## ssnvet

Nick…. That's a lot of Maple… How thick is your top going to be?


----------



## Nick424

Matt, the bench/work table is 39" wide, 93" long and thickness right now is 4 1/8". I got extra for a project for my brother, and just to have.


----------



## Nick424

Next we started to glue up the top. I made it easy on us, three sections in each half.









Again using that extrusion to keep things strait and flat.

finally glued the three together and used the router to flatten both sides.









What a mess! With the planing and the routering I had six 55 gal. drums of shavings.









Time now for my very first hand cut dovetail.

















There is room for improvement, the camera can't show it all.









Now some hardware.


----------



## Nick424

Working on the dog block.









And things are coming together now.









A little trimming.









My center piece…









Dog block installed..









The rest of the dogs trimmed, sliding deadman and chop installed..









And we have a bench!


----------



## Nick424

We finished mid April, a week before Adam's birthday. And he could not wait to do the "Bondo" pose.









The bench is 39 X 93 and 35 inches tall. I don't do a lot of planing, mostly make small boxes, and I wanted to have plenty of room to work on the back side. The back has the legs set back 5 inches so I can stand and work without kicking the legs all the time. I would guess it is around 400 - 500 Lbs. The two top slabs will come off, but the legs are all glued and pinned.


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## Handtooler

Mighty fine workmanship, and a wonderful addition to your shop. You blog is also super. Thanks.


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## builtinbkyn

Now that's a honkin' big workbench! Nice work.


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## DanKrager

Yessir! THAT'S a BENCH!. Well done, sir. I believe you're official now…bondo done.

DanK


----------



## CL810

Awesome work Nick


----------



## ssnvet

Apology in advance, I posted this as a project, so some of you guys may have seen it already.

Upgraded my end vise recently with the hardware from Grizzly….



















This was a little tricky as the metal legs have a widthwise stretcher under the bench top, so I had to block the hardware up (down) 1" and use 7.5" tall jaws.

I thought the jaws were hard maple, but it cut so smoothly, that I am now convinced that they are soft Maple.

I bought a sheet of the neoprene rubber impregnated cork from McMaster-Carr (same material as what Bench Crafted calls crubber, but many more sheet sizes and thicknesses available for slightly less money). I installed it with contact spray adhesive and so far I like the holding power a lot and haven't had any cork abrade off.










I also mounted a T-track into a routed rabbet on the back edge by the tool well for use with one of these slick little clamps from Rockler.


















So far I'm liking the vise a lot. I'll need to drill some more holes in the bench to really take advantage of both upgrades though.

Not thinking that this is really Bondo worthy, but thanks for looking anyways.


----------



## Nick424

Thanks all for the nice comments. It was a great time to work with my son, he happened to have some time off and he came up any time I was home for the weekend. I would not have put in the sliding deadman, but Adam thought it was something we needed. Then he went out and bought the holdfasts. So I won't complain. 
The racing stripes cover a screw up, I put domino holes on both sides of the last board and there was nowhere else to use it. But in the end I really like the look of them.


----------



## ADN

My Roubo build took around 8 months, and that was after the material was gathered, and I needed a break after it was together enough to use.

90% of all work is with hand tools….

So I turned my attention to shop appliances, shooting boards, including a long grain version, saw benches…that kind of stuff. Kept thinking that there sure was a lot of unused spaced under my bench…the long grain shooting board turned out to be one of my most used jigs, and I never thought I needed one…

Put a shelf under the bench but that just made me wish for something better.

So started looking/searching examples of workbenches with cabinets, and of course the Shaker benches are the pinnacle of that type of bench…

I did not want the compilation of building a Shaker cabinet into my Roubo, so I designed a simple little component type box out of plywood. Decided to use plywood mainly for the rigidity of the box.

Has an overlay of long leaf pine heartwood, used an old moving fillister plane and it works great, but did re saw on the bandsaw.

Cabinet dimensions are 66" long, 19" high and 17" deep, keeping it small enough to slide between the bench legs and still have space on top and bottom for storage and cleaning.

3 banks of drawers, 6 drawers per bank, 2 banks with half blind, and one (center) with through dovetails. Different spacing and ratios on each, all done as dovetail practice.

Dowel pulls and pegs were made with a Stanley 77, over 60' altogether.

More storage than I know what to do with, but it fills up fast….gotta weigh close to 1000 lbs now!





































Regards,
Andy


----------



## avsmusic1

man I love this thread


----------



## Handtooler

Fantastic! I'm sure you will enjoy using it thoroughly. It is really beautiful. The leg visc and sliding deadman add a terrific component to its usability. The storage units are simply superb. Thanks for posting.


----------



## onoitsmatt

Good looking bench, Andy!


----------



## BurlyBob

Andy, everything about your bench looks awesome.


----------



## gargey

That bench is almost as nice as a Sjoberg Elite 2500!


----------



## ssnvet

Andy….. drawers are where it's at! and now you have a bunch of them.

Dovetails look great!


----------



## DLK

If you have any left over drawers after filling them with chisels, rasps, files and planes, turn one into a small parts drawer, by dividing it up into removal bins.


----------



## galooticus

ADN Andy, that's really nice! Looking to do the same thing to my bench eventually.


----------



## ADN

> That bench is almost as nice as a Sjoberg Elite 2500!
> 
> - gargey


I'll take it as meant, as a compliment….

The Sjoberg is a nice bench, but not in the same class as a Lie Nielsen, or someone's Benchcrafted designed bench, one has to look at them in person to get the full effect.

One just can't get the concept of how nice some of these benches are, not talking about looks, the design, structure and joinery on some of the benches displayed here are just exquisite, and pictures don't do them justice.

My bench is not one of the best, but at 10' long and a 5" thick top, it weighs almost 3 x as much as the Sjoberg, in fact the Support structure on my bench would weigh about as much as a whole 2500, and it's the legs and support structure that are lacking on the Sjoberg.

The vise package one the 2500 is very good, but again, not in the same class as Benchcrafted or Lie Nielsen.

Thanks for the compliment,
Andy


----------



## ADN

Thanks for all the compliments, since I had already posted the bench here thought I'd share the modifications…

Don:

That's a great idea, would be a convenient place for screws and such, just hate the thought of making the little dividers…

Andy


----------



## ADN

> Fantastic! I m sure you will enjoy using it thoroughly. It is really beautiful. The leg visc and sliding deadman add a terrific component to its usability. The storage units are simply superb. Thanks for posting.
> 
> - Handtooler


Russell:

The Lie Nielsen tail vise ( their new design) has turned out to be my favorite, now I know why Krenov called it the "main vise"...


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

ADN, the bench looks great and I'm sure it's a joy to work with. Love the Main Vise too.


----------



## ADN

Thanks Smitty….

Andy


----------



## MagicalMichael

"The Lie Nielsen tail vise ( their new design) has turned out to be my favorite, now I know why Krenov called it "

This raises an interesting question for me. I have been using a Tage Frid bench for almost 35 years and have been planning a replacement. I built it as a newbie in a class and the instructor told me I was in over my head and he wasn't entirely wrong. I started out assuming I would build the new one around the Frank Klausz drawings in Scott Landis book. Then I started exploring hardware and found a whole world of hardware that didn't exist when I last built a bench. That set me to thinking harder about it. The Benchcrafted stuff is more than I am prepared to pay. The Lake Erie vices make me drool but locks me into a design tradition. The L-N tail vice is very good but is also pretty expensive and looks almost as difficult to install as a traditional design. And I definitely don't want a chain drive face vice. I am fascinated by the Hovarter design. But their end harware is designed for a wagon vice not a traditional tail vice.

I have been rethinking what vices I really need. I have probably used either the shoulder vice or the bench dogs for most procedures and the tail vice less. I seem mostly to use it for planing drawers. ( I simply put a 25" stool under the clamped drawer and plane away.) The Hovarter face vice hardware overcomes all of the shortcomings of a face vice that the shoulder vice was designed to overcome. So I am pondering, should I let go of the complexities of both the tail vice and the shoulder vice and go with a wagon vice and the Hovarter face vice in the expectation that it could also handle that drawer task?

Michael


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## DanKrager

If I ever rebuild my bench closer to "traditional", that will be my plan, Michael. And it will have a Noden style height adjustment like my current one.

DanK


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## TheTurtleCarpenter

I've had a pile of Oak, maple and walnut sitting in a corner taking up space for over a year now to make a proper workbench. I started out as a framer many moons ago and then ventured out as a trim carpenter with my own buisness. Every house had the basics to keep my mind intrigued but the staircases , mantles and built-ins filled my creativity. The main focus was making a living and time was money so I rigged and jigged table set-ups and workholding.

Eventually I started a cabinet shop and tables were 4×8 setups made with common lumber and plywood. They served there purpose well and I could draw on and screw down setups and workholding, easy/peasey. Now I still have the same mentality but a new (proper bench would be a good project to get started. So yesterday I started milling some of the wood.
















There were no plans but today I started putting a few ideas together. First Few ideas are , narrow with a flip up back table and second I want one maybe two rows of slots for bench hooks and other items with a cleat to drop into, also these slots could be used for clamps and holding tools, lots of opportunities to think about. Here is the first scetch I drew and I will refine it in the next few days.


----------



## MagicalMichael

It looks like you are committed to a Roubo style bench. Why? I'm interested in wether these benches can be broken down in any way for moving? My next bench will not doubt outlive me by many years and even if I don't move, it will need to travel cross country to my son in Ca., so being transportable is a big factor for me. Also I wonder about those through leg tenons. Doesn't the top have just enough seasonal movement to keep them out of flush with the benchtop?
Michael


----------



## DLK

Was built so that I could disassemble it in anticipation of a move, and 3 years later its going to happen. But alas I see that I never showed assembly details. Here are then some additional photos:

Top sits on blind tenons, its massive weight holds it in place.










Short stretchers and legs are a single unit joined by draw bore mortice and tenon joints.










Long stretchers are attached via bolts:


























Note the wide slot to accommodate the wrench and the use of the magnet to hold the nut while threading it into the bolt.

Thus it breaks down in to 5 basic pieces. 

top
rear long stretcher
front long stretcher
left leg assembly 
right leg assembly

and 4 added parts:

leg vise
end face vise
sliding deadman
shelf (several ship lap boards).


----------



## Mr_Pink

Another example is the Schwarz "two day" workbench, which breaks down in a similar (but less sophisticated) manner. The top is held on by large lag screws, and the bolts for the stretchers go through the outside faces of the legs.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

> It looks like you are committed to a Roubo style bench. Why? I m interested in wether these benches can be broken down in any way for moving? My next bench will not doubt outlive me by many years and even if I don t move, it will need to travel cross country to my son in Ca., so being transportable is a big factor for me. Also I wonder about those through leg tenons. Doesn t the top have just enough seasonal movement to keep them out of flush with the benchtop?
> Michael
> 
> - MagicalMichael
> 
> In my notes/list on things still to decide on I haven't ruled out a different attachment for the top. I don't have any children to leave it to so I figure whoever ends up with the bench will have to put some effort into moving it if there interested. No glue has been spread yet.! One thing I do want for sure is no end to end flex and the thru tenons will negate that more so than blind. One thought is to do slip tenons at the top and splay the legs 10 degrees or so and let the bottom stretcher lock them in with thru tenons and wedges.


----------



## DLK

There is no end to end flex with my blind tenons.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

That's great to know Don K. I don't doubt it a bit, With the contact area of the stretchers and the bolts cinching it up.

It is my nature to overbuild, my badge to wear.! I will finish milling up my lumber Monday and I think I'll make a small mock up or two and study them.

I'm wanting to make this bench 18-20" wide with a 10" flip up rear table for when needed. I want this table to have a small footprint and not be a catch all table. There will be dog holes but also two rows of slots for fixtures and tools and the occasional f-clamp to fasten to, I guess this will be a hybrid of sorts.


----------



## MagicalMichael

Thanks Combo and Turtle. I am just back from the L-N Open House in Warren Me and now find myself wavering again on what kind of bench I want. I had an opportunity to chat with Chris Schwartz over his lunch and asked him if he had any experience with the Hovarter vices. He said he knew one person who had been using them for a few years and liked them. He thought they were well engineered and he said nice things about Len Hovarter. He did however point out that they were complicated and therefore would need regular maintenance. He reminded me that there is a great virtue in simplicity. That resonated with me because it is exactly the feeling I have about chain drive vices. I am also an avid cyclist so know that there is no such thing as a maintenance free chain drive. So now I find myself moving back toward the Lake Erie wooden screws. That still leaves me with three types of front vices - twin screw, shoulder, leg. The first seems like it could be annoying in practice, the second is complicated to build, but is what I am used to. The third is something I have no experience with either building or using. Decisions, decisions.

BTW, living in a rural corner of the rural state of VT, I never get a chance to handle hand tools before I buy them so the Lie-Nielson show felt like two days in a candy store.

Michael


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

A Great point about Simplicity, Michael. I'm glad you got to visit the candy store and taste the Lobster !


----------



## theoldfart

Michael, if I can build a leg vise ANYONE can. I used the Lake Erie screw, awesome people to interact with. Also used the Bench Crafted crisscross, not to hard as long as you install it before the bench is done.


----------



## ADN

> It looks like you are committed to a Roubo style bench. Why? I m interested in wether these benches can be broken down in any way for moving? My next bench will not doubt outlive me by many years and even if I don t move, it will need to travel cross country to my son in Ca., so being transportable is a big factor for me. Also I wonder about those through leg tenons. Doesn t the top have just enough seasonal movement to keep them out of flush with the benchtop?
> Michael
> 
> - MagicalMichael


Michael:

My bench is the split top Roubo and I've taken it apart and moved it 4 times, no issues at all, other than the weight of a 5 inch thick & 10 foot long top. Makes one appreciate the split top design, one side weighs over 200lbs the other side is about 3 inches narrower, so it weighs less.

It's the through mortise and tenons that hold the top in place that allows it to be taken apart. It does have to be jacked apart at each end concurrently, it fits that tight. Made sure the joints were as tight as possible during the build and could see no reason to glue or fasten the top down.

The bottom shelf is ship lapped and sets in rabbets so it's removable, and the case for the drawers just slides between the legs. However the bottom, legs & stretches, are pegged, and we moved it as a unit, probably a little over 200 lbs, but not that difficult to move. Plus it could easily be designed to come apart, but don't think it's necessary.

Did not really build it with the intent to move it so many times, it just happen. Did not have my current shop when I built it, in fact I ended up completing the build on my front porch….

This is my 3rd and bench, first Roubo, and it's my favoriteso far, by a long measure….I'm also a fan of the Shaker style work bench, and if I ever build one it will also have a split top…

Good luck,
Andy


----------



## theoldfart

The perennial question, Why do I need a stout workbench?

My answer is, To do this









 I love making shavings!


----------



## Breeze73

Just finished my Workbench. Here is the link to my project post.


----------



## onoitsmatt

That's a sexy bench, Breeze.


----------



## HokieKen

Okay boys, this is the first time I've posted in this thread (I think) but Duckmilk saw my bench in another thread and insisted I pop in over here and give y'all something to laugh at ;-P

First though, I have never expressed appreciation for this thread and would like to do so. As an engineer in a competitive industry, I deal constantly with trying to figure things out and trying to keep others from figuring my things out. But woodworking (at least as a hobbyist) is refreshing in folks' willingness to put their IP out there for everyone to see. And hell, then most of you will tell us how to do it! I think this thread is one of the most influential things online when it comes to benches. I'd say it has probably "touched" more designs than anyone will ever know.

So, THANKS to all of you who have posted your benches, discussed your ideas and helped those of us who are building our own! I know that along the way I've snagged an idea or 2 for mine. Probably the most useful one I've "stolen" is my Widdleracker aka Widdle Stick. Thanks for that one Widdle!

Anyway onto the main course… In just 11 short months (so far), I've managed to turn this:










Into this:



















You can see the bench it's replacing in the background. It may not be pretty but it's a HUGE upgrade. And heck, it's pretty to me ;-P It's obviously not done. I was looking forward to finishing it up and posting it here but Duck insisted I give y'all a sneak peak 'cause you love in-progress pics. Well, I have a bunch for those of you who do! Here is a 13 (so far) part blog I've done over the last year. It covers everything from planning and design to sourcing material to construction.

I will say that a big portion of this build was done with hand tools. I have always used hand planes for "tweaking" and fine-tuning. I've never, before this bench, took raw-stock to finished dimensions with only planes but I ended up doing just that on most of this bench. And I'll tell you what, milling the top and then flattening it was probably 75% of the actual hands-on time of the whole build! It was a MASSIVE learning curve for me. It started out frustrating but now, I am thrilled I did it. My appreciation for hand planes and my confidence in my ability to use them well has risen about 500%.

This was also my first time chopping mortises completely by hand. I tried hogging the waste out with an auger but quickly decided it was more efficient just to wail away with my chisel mallet. Again, it seemed like it took for ever to carve out the 12 mortises on the bench but I'm way more confident in my ability to do so.

So, that's where I'm at now. You can see that I put finish on the legs and short stretchers before I assembled everything. I just set the top in place last night then drove in my drawbore pegs for the long stretchers so the base is permanently assembled now. I still need to turn some pegs and pin the top to the front legs. Then I have to re-fit my vises. I fit them on before assembly but pulled them back off to make the top more manageable and because I still need to make the chops "pretty". After that there are a lot of small things to do - shelf for the bottom, French cleat and holders for the back side and sometime in the future a bank of drawers for underneath. But all of that can wait and be done as time permits. As soon as I install the vises, check flatness again and correct if needed, and put finish on the rest of the bench, she'll be in-service!

I'll post some more pics when I get to that point. In the meantime, any comments, criticisms or suggestions are GREATLY appreciated!


----------



## CB_Cohick

My question is for those of you that plan to, or have done so, replace your current workbench with a new one. What will you do with your old bench?


----------



## HokieKen

Mine is going to my Son's house if he wants it. If not, I'll offer it up on Craigslist most likely. It's a decent enough worktable, I just don't have room for both…


----------



## builtinbkyn

> My question is for those of you that plan to, or have done so, replace your current workbench with a new one. What will you do with your old bench?
> 
> - CB_Cohick


I do plan on making a stout bench in the not too distant future, so I'll use my existing bench for the build and then keep it for assembly and messy work if I have the space.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm not sure yet. When I do eventually get my new workshop done, I want to build a larger bench. My 4' long bench has done me fantastically so far, and has been perfect for what I needed it for (I needed a small workbench because all of my shop spaces have been small, and I've had the bench in 3 shops in the last 6 years). My initial thought was to keep the top, and modify it to use as a joinery bench by building a new [taller] base for it, and adding a moxon/twin screw vise to the front.


----------



## jmartel

I'm going to be turning my old bench into a general purpose bench for non-woodworking tasks. I'm having a new shop built and plan on doing a new bench shortly after it's finished. Keeping a pair of holdfasts and the front vise on it would probably be good to have for many things.

Current plans for the new bench is a Benchcrafted Shaker style bench, most likely 8' long.


----------



## DLK

Mos, don't you need one bench dedicated to each Stanley 45.


----------



## Mosquito

lol that I do not have room for


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## DLK

Make smaller benches.


----------



## DavidTTU

Well I am a first time poster here, but a long time lurker. This thread has been an incredible resource as I went along. I remember first looking at it drooling over the benches people posted. Well here is my contribution. If anyone is ever building the "Classic Workbench" from the Benchcrafted plans, I would be happy to offer advice (take it for what its worth).

The bench is made out of soft maple, it was what I could afford. The wood was an excellent choice for a first time bench builder, but will make for a dented and scratched top, and I couldnt care less. It took me about six months of work. Lots of time between working on it, solving small shop solutions, and fixing my mistakes.

What I learned the most- A large project outside your comfort zone is about momentum. When I had momentum, things got done, mistakes did not slow me down, and I was having fun. When I lost momentum, things crawled forward, mistakes were magnified and slow to fix. We got a shop dog half way through the build, get one of those… just watch your power cords.

The Benchcrafted hardware is first class.

The first project after this build was a cabinet for the bathroom. I used the left over maple pieces I had from the bench. I did that project in half the time with my new bench.

If you are interested in seeing some videos, I used the #classicbenchbuild on instagram. There are a few short 1 minute videos about the build. Not meant to be a build video, just showing some of the processes and having fun.


----------



## HokieKen

Very nice bench David. Excellent work on a fine build!


----------



## donwilwol

you did well. Dents and scratches in a bench is called "patina"

Well done.


----------



## DavidTTU

Thanks Ken! I put the jointer plane you restored to good use.


----------



## onoitsmatt

Nice looking bench. Well done!


----------



## theoldfart

Bravo David, great build. And a partial Bondo to boot! Excellent.


----------



## DLK

Very nice and I love that bench dog.


----------



## duckmilk

Very well done David, congrats! Cute bench dog, did you name him Bondo?


----------



## rad457

This thread makes me want to build another bench! 
Only thing wrong with mine is that it should of been built years ago!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice build, David. Congrats on the build, and I totally agree re: momentum. And it applied to every other shop build I've ever done.


----------



## CL810

Great bench David. It will serve you well.


----------



## revrok

Nice bench David!


----------



## August

Hello folks 
Need help and advice. 
Finally got my hands on some yellow pine
And I want to build a roubo style workbench 
What I would like 
Is to have the leg vise and the crisscross 
And I would like to use a Wilton vise at the other end as a end vise and use it for other stuff too .
So far my wood is staying true and straight and dry or it's done moving for a now,.
She's just just of 1-1/2 wide and 5-1/4 high and 8' -1/4" long 
And my dream to get 8' and 2' wide 
And would like to have a square dogs or what do you guys recommend 
And I would like to have a planing stop also,.
Any thoughts?
Here's a dry practice to see how much clamp I would need to glue up a 13" wide

And also any thoughts on a split top?


----------



## DLK

A roubo style bench would not have dog holes.
If you use round dog holes, then you can use them as dog holes or hold fast holes.


----------



## onoitsmatt

+1 to what Don said. I love my holdfasts.


----------



## Vindex

Okay, time to throw my hat into the ring since I just flattened my workbench last week. This may not be the fanciest bench in this thread, but I absolutely love using it! It's heavy enough that it never budges when I am planing or doing other work on it, and I can hold anything (especially now that I have a Wonder Dog clamp). The two stretchers allow me to support larger pieces without having to make a sliding deadman (the carriage bolts are countersunk so that they are well below the surface and don't interfere with clamping).

Here is the link to my project page for the bench: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/229850









The bench is a hybrid of the $175 workbench, the Heavy Duty Workbench, and the Roubo (the legs are flush with the front of the bench top).

Incidentally, my wife named the bench about a month ago when walnut danish oil leaked all over the top while I was experimenting with finishes. She came out, saw the bench, turned to me, and said, "What did you do to Sylvia?! She was so pretty!" Evidently, she had had the name in her head for quite a while before that. The name stuck.

So here is Sylvia after 2 years of abuse and a fresh flattening of the top:


----------



## DLK

Nice I like that middle stretcher idea … particularly if it works for you.


----------



## Handtooler

Super sturdy! You'll certainly enjoy it I'm quite sure. No end vise? Reason.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Super sturdy! You ll certainly enjoy it I m quite sure. No end vise? Reason.
> 
> - Handtooler


My guess is the wonder dog probably handles that.


----------



## Vindex

> Super sturdy! You ll certainly enjoy it I m quite sure. No end vise? Reason.
> 
> - Handtooler
> 
> My guess is the wonder dog probably handles that.
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


That is correct, Nick. Also, since the right side of the bench is next to the door to the garage, a tail vise would probably be a hazard for people entering and leaving the garage.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

I'm going to start a bench build some century, and I'm not really sold on tail vises yet as Schwarz seems to like just using a holdfast and doe's foot, this by no means is taking the vise out of the question, but makes me wonder if I really "need" a tail vise.


----------



## revrok

The simpler answer is that with holdfasts you need neither a face vise nor a tail vise nor bench dogs. I like and use all of them, but Mike Siemens "Naked Woodworker" shows you how to use the bench with holdfasts alone.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

Yeah, but if your trying to plane a 5-6' board and fumbling to get a holdfast on it while you hold it to the bench is a pain, the leg vise or similar is a large hassle to live without IMO, the tail vise isn't as big a deal, as most of it's dealings are on top of the bench.


----------



## MagicalMichael

Let me start by admitting that I have never worked on a bench without a vice. Still I find it difficult to imagine being able to work all 6 sides of a board, let alone assembled parts, without some sort of vice, of which the Veritas adj. dogs seems to be the minimal solution. How do you work on the face of a board when you have a holdfast on it? I work on a traditional, home made scandanavian bench and routinely place boards & parts between the dogs and tighten with the tail vice. The opening in the tail vice mostly gets used for planing draw sides and most everything else goes into the shoulder vice. I can certainly see how a good twin screw or Hovarter face vice could match my shoulder vice for working edges and ends, although a twin screw vice doesn't look as useful for working the edges of wide boards as a shoulder or leg vice.

Michael


----------



## HokieKen

I had an end vise on my old bench. That was the only vise I ever had so I used it A LOT. When I built my new bench, I looked at all the options but, fact-is, I used the heck out of that vise and know how well it works for me. So I moved it over to my new bench. Also added a leg vise which I'm falling madly in love with. IMHO, it all comes down to personal preference, what kind of work you do and what tools you use to do it with.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> How do you work on the face of a board when you have a holdfast on it?
> 
> Michael
> 
> - MagicalMichael


Plane stop and a Doe's foot


----------



## bandit571

A Crochet and a leg vise tend to work together on the longer board..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I started with just a wonder dog and it was fine for a while. Then I stumbled across an end vise I wanted to use; it's pop up dog, along with a line of holes on the bench top, makes life much easier and work holding much more of a sure thing. And the wonder dog works along the front, when I want the workpiece more towards the left end of the bench. But for working the faces of stuff longer than 4', my first choice is the dog and end vise combo.


----------



## Vindex

An end vise would certainly make some things easier (the wonder dog's pole sits a bit too high above the bench to be entirely out of the way if I am planing thin stock). However, I often use the right edge of my bench for sawing stuff, and a vise right there would get in the way. That combined with the layout of my garage make an end vise a poor fit for my particular bench.


----------



## MagicalMichael

> An end vise would certainly make some things easier (the wonder dog s pole sits a bit too high above the bench to be entirely out of the way if I am planing thin stock). However, I often use the right edge of my bench for sawing stuff, and a vise right there would get in the way. That combined with the layout of my garage make an end vise a poor fit for my particular bench.
> 
> - Vindex
> 
> This makes sense. Reminds me of my salad days with IBM, back when mainframes ruled. We had an algorithm to determine the largest computer for any customer. It was FTD - Fits Through Door.


----------



## Sylvain

Mike Siemsen: work holding without a vise

Paul Sellers has a" clamp in the vise " system.

drawers and carcasses:


----------



## Sylvain

Let start with the mandatory picture










It was too hot to wear the checked shirt and I have no blue wig.

It is a Paul Sellers type workbench.

It is full of tear-out
- because of my lack of skill, and
- this pine is full of knots with grain reversing everywhere.


----------



## DanKrager

Well done, Sylvain. Looks like a handy bench. Wish my walls were white!

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Good show Sylvain, like the braces!


----------



## Sylvain

I had been contemplating making a workbench for much too long.
Last year, the son found some wood in the Attic of his house:










5 pieces of 47X75mm 3m long rough sawn.
As Wickes has stopped operation in continental Europe in 1997, this lumber had spent at least 19 years in the attic.

I thought; it must be dry.
I had also in my basement boards (about 100X30mm) from a picnic bench which was replaced because one of the feet was rotten but otherwise those boards were sound.
I had also 4 pieces of construction grade wood for the feet collected on the street (left by contractors replacing tramway line, sewage refection, etc.

So I started transforming rough sawn rafters in planed ones.
They were free but knotty and twisted.

Until now I had no workshop so I could only work in the backyard when the weather was fine.
Then I had some Honey-do and the work was stalled.
I started again this June.


----------



## DanKrager

Yes, the Honey-do list must be considered. I consider it from 9:00pm to 9:03pm every Saturday night.

DanK


----------



## Sylvain

Some of it was woodworking related.

This was the opportunity to work in the living room *without the hint of a complaint*.










modifying a door to add a rail and a raised panel:


----------



## ssnvet

Rotate the pic to desired orientation and then crop it (even the slightest amount) and the software somehow is able to figure out which end is up.


----------



## Sylvain

Edited
rotated, saved, rotated back, saved again. Now OK
Thanks


----------



## August

Ok folks I have a question.
It's just a pine bench what do guys recommend paint or stain the base and legs of the bench?
And was hopping for like a faded look 
Either a green or red flat color


----------



## Sylvain

Mine is not as fine as yours, I definitively will paint the aprons and legs.

I am hesitating between grey-green and "lie de vin" , a colour used by Ralph "the accidental woodworker" on his last shop cabinet.


----------



## revrok

I used to be a snob about paint on a workbench… Now I really like the look! Go for it!



> Ok folks I have a question.
> It s just a pine bench what do guys recommend paint or stain the base and legs of the bench?
> And was hopping for like a faded look
> Either a green or red flat color
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


----------



## August

Thanks Sylvian 
Thanks Tim 
What would the name of the paint be?
I'm looking for a vintage or almost faded style?
Thanks folks


----------



## bandit571

Milk paint…


----------



## Sylvain

Having cut the 3m piece in 2, I had 4 of them straight enough ( I thought) to be glued.
I then glued 3 of them.








I then cut one of the twisted board in 3 and untwisted one face of each part. 
I glued the 3 parts, made them flush wit the first 3 ones and squared and straigthened the edge (untwisting the other face.
I then glued the 4th good board, making the top flush and making the new edge of the slab straight and square.
Then I cut another twisted board in two and repeated what I had done with the one cut in 3.

I the flattened more or less this first slab and used it to have a longer and heavier workbench on top of the workmate.










I have been hesitating to pursue this and finally decided that it would give me a top narrower then I first was aiming for but wide enough.

testing for twist and flattening the slab:


----------



## Sylvain

I realize I didn't thanked Dan and Kevin for their first comment.
Better later than never.
Thanks Dan and Kevin for your kind words.


----------



## August

Sylvain that's my next step is to try to get the slab co planner ? To one another 
I don't if that's how is spelled

Thanks Bandit for the name of the paint also 
I hope my menards or home depot has that

I like the grey color too


----------



## revrok

That would also be my choice



> Milk paint…
> 
> - bandit571


----------



## Sylvain

Next step
Turning the rough sawn legs into S4S.









Chopping through mortises.

The first one was good. During the chopping of the second one I realiized that the two halves would not meet in the middle so I planed a scrap with a right angle to serve as a guide.










No picture of rail and tenon making.

Gluing the first leg frame:


----------



## August

Thanks for advice folks I love it


----------



## bandit571

$2 addition to the Dungeon Shop Bench..









Bought "New in bag" at a yard sale 









I did have to provide a LED bulb, though..


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

Up on 4 Feet. , I'm about to the 3/4 mark on my build,


----------



## Sylvain

Nice shade of grey August.
Grey is supposed to foster concentration.
Except his recycled lumber bench, all Paul Sellers benches are grey.


----------



## Sylvain

TurtleCarpenter, this is a neat workbench.


----------



## revrok

Looking great bruh! Hope you warned those shop dogs about the dire consequences of leg lifting!



> Thanks for advice folks I love it
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


----------



## revrok

Looking beautiful!



> Up on 4 Feet. , I m about to the 3/4 mark on my build,
> 
> - TheTurtleCarpenter


----------



## August

Thanks sylvain 
Your right after google reasearch I saw it 
And I'm glad I listen to you thanks

Thansk Tim 
Here you can see what's happening


----------



## ToddJB

I like the paint, Auggie. Bench is looking great. And the awesome thing about milk paint in my opinion is the more beat up it gets the better it looks


----------



## August

Thanks Todd 
In some way I wish I never knew about the milk paint,.
Now I have all this crazy ideas now LOl

I wish there is a way to upload short videos here 
Anyway legvise works great it travel as
Fast
As the benchcrafted,
Love the crisscross though


----------



## Sylvain

Dry fit of second leg frame.
Oops, the mortise haunch is on the wrong side!
The bark side would compromise the working of the wedge which ensure no raking.


















plugging the mortise haunch (before doing it on the other side)









I have no picture about gluing the apron boards nor about making the dadoes/housing

Gluing the top to the front apron









A la Paul Sellers touch: 








(it is about the tenon)


----------



## August

Looking nice sylvain

I'm wondering if I can do that for other bench 
I have a 24"x3"x78" maple top ?

I was thinking of making that to my higher bench for fine work.
Maybe up against a wall don't know yet


----------



## revrok

> Looking nice sylvain
> 
> I m wondering if I can do that for other bench
> I have a 24"x3"x78" maple top ?
> 
> I was thinking of making that to my higher bench for fine work.
> Maybe up against a wall don t know yet
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


I decided to do this for my higher joinery bench and so far I love it! Your bench is large enough you could leave it on a corner permanently.


----------



## revrok

Great looking bench! 


> Dry fit of second leg frame.
> Oops, the mortise haunch is on the wrong side!
> The bark side would compromise the working of the wedge which ensure no raking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> plugging the mortise haunch (before doing it on the other side)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no picture about gluing the apron boards nor about making the dadoes/housing
> 
> Gluing the top to the front apron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A la Paul Sellers touch:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (it is about the tenon)
> 
> - Sylvain


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

Thanks, Tim and Sylvain. August, your going to need another bench to satisfy both of your dogs.

I had to work this weekend and got back to the bench this morning. I have a better appreciation for all you bench builders now. Glueing up the big slabs and lugging them around by myself, the 5 1/2" legs were handled and picked up a hundred times, morticing, handsawing slabs to length and flattening the top this morning have emptied my Aleive bottle.! All these bench projects test our endurance and patience.

I still have a way to go; leg vise is ordered, chop needs to be made, dog holes, center divider, chop for end vise, under top cabinet, sanding and finishes, but in no hurry now that I've got this bench to work from. I had no real solid plan to start with, just ideas that changed daily. I had a few cherry live edge slabs laying around and decided to add them to the mix.


----------



## August

Truffle this is a workbench section not a finewoodworking section hahahahah 
Nice work men


----------



## August

Turtle you gave me an idea on that nice slab you have on your bench 
Maybe I can make one so my junk yards dogs stop coming to my bench


----------



## Sylvain

Turtlecarpenter, this is a piece of art.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

August; just cut an extra long 3/4 dowel and put it in the "dog" hole. When he gets under your bench, drive it down with a mallet and put a knot on his head.

Sylvain; the art is in the natural deformation in the cherry slab, it has been sitting in my shop for a year and have been looking for something to add it too. IT is on loan to the bench by way of a couple of cleats. One day I'll build a cabinet and use it for the door.


----------



## Sylvain

When the top had been glued to the apron, I planed the apron flush with the top.
Then I knocked down the workbench and have it taken to the second floor where I managed to find a little place after getting rid of some accumulated junk.
The "L beam" formed by the apron and top would have been manageable by me but it was more easy to get the help of the son to bring it 48 stair steps higher.

When I received the vise, in order to install the it, I flipped and pivotated the "L beam" while the leg frames were kept in place by the back apron :

















You can see an apron dado/housing in the background of the vise.

I think the knock-down possibility of the Paul Sellers workbench is an important feature for those of us with a tiny shop.
By the way, P.S. has just published a little video on how to turn the workbench to install the vise if you don't want to knock it down. This two stage method is certainly better for your back then turning the bench directly on its side. 
But you need more space than I have and you have to kneel down to work with the 16kg vise.

I then made the well board with two boards glued together to obtain the required width.
Planning it to width was my first use of the vise.

When I sawed the bench top, for the first end I failed to cut it square because I didn't make a saw guide (knife wall + chisel) all around. I have decided to keep it like that not to loose another 20 mm and as a reminder not to hurry.








The top has the required length at the top surface and where it meets the apron but not at this corner; my sawing has been twisting.



















Some scrap pine for the jaws.









Made in India vise, 138,-Euro via amazon shipping included.

Except the vise, I have bought 4 carriage bolts, 4 lag bolts, the well board, a board to make "the bearer" as PS call the top of the leg frame, and some screws.

I had received a pair of Grammercy holdfast for a birthday some time ago, I finally will be able to use them after drilling some holes.

The dimensions are:
L 1.47 m, w 0.6 m, h .96 m (about 37"3/4)
working width: 0.3 m (about 1')
top thickness: 70 mm

I will see how this height work for me.

The Workmate height is rather low: 0.72m (28"1/4) in the jaws, 0.77m (30"1/4)on the top.
Then with the slab made of the first glued together rafter (0.84m about 34") , it was ok for the remaining heavy work.

I have learned many things while building this workbench.
If someday I make another one (for the gran kids?) it will certainly be better made.
I certainly will resurface the top when I have gained more experience.
Now no excuse anymore to spend so much time on internet "armchair woodworking".


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

The leg vise came in and I got it installed. I went with the BC Classic after a month of self deliberating. I have a perfectly fine Wilton quick release vise and decided it would work best as the end vise. The BC works like a dream.


----------



## ssnvet

Very spiffy


----------



## CL810

Turtle that is one fine leg vise. Love the way you trimmed the plate.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

Clayton, I'm a tightwad at heart and I only have about a hundred in materials less the vise so I went back and forth whether a leg vise would be any better than my steel Wilton vise. I am happy with my decision and the vise made the bench so I gave it some extra Love.!


----------



## theoldfart

I'll second Andy's comment on the leg vise Turtle, nicely done.


----------



## dukeandrews

First post from a long time lurker here. This thread has been inspirational with everyone's awesome benches.

It's taken about a month to get this far, so I'm excited to start using it even though I haven't installed the vises yet. The bench is made from recycled 2×6 and the only thing I bought so far was the glue and I went through about 1/2 gallon. The dimensions are 32×80x19

This whole thing has been a wonderful learning process and here is what I learned:

1. Pine has a lot of knots
2. Knots are annoying 
3. Tools need to be super sharp
4. Sharpening is not as easy as I thought
5. I'm not as good at measuring as I thought
6. 1/8" can seem like a lot
7. A hammer will split wood if you hit it hard enough
8. 5" is probably thicker than I need for a top
9. Country music isn't that bad
10. Pine has a lot of knots


----------



## Mosquito

I agree with all of that except #9 lol

Looks great, should be nice and solid at 5" thick


----------



## ssnvet

Looks rock solid


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

The" Race is On" and here comes pride up the backstretch as George Jones sang. Looks like your coming along great and the finish is sight. This is going to be a Great bench and your back will be glad it's all over


----------



## jmartel

And in pops Duke with the hoss bench.


----------



## DanKrager

Lookin' good, Duke! Now, for the photo….

DanK


----------



## dukeandrews

Thanks fellas. Hoping to make the chocks today. A friend gave me a bit of purpleheart, so I'm thinking of using it as an accent.

@DanK-Let me get the bench done before the obligatory bench selfie. I'm pretty sure most people don't want to see that anyway. ;-)


----------



## ToddJB

> I'm pretty sure most people don t want to see that anyway. ;-)
> 
> - dukeandrews


Wrong


----------



## jmartel

It's not so much of a want, it's more of a need.


----------



## revrok

If we could only get our politicians to 90% agreement! I have to take exception to 9 as well! Great bench!


> I agree with all of that except #9 lol
> 
> Looks great, should be nice and solid at 5" thick
> 
> - Mosquito


----------



## BlasterStumps

Not all country music is bad, just the stuff they put out since the '60s. : )


----------



## Mosquito

lol I can get on board with that one Blaster


----------



## duckmilk

Nice leg vise Turtle! Nice looking carving on the deadman as well.

Great bench Duke! I also agree with your list and agree that the older country is preferable to the newer.
I actually like the older western or cowboy music.


----------



## duckmilk

Man, I need to keep up with this blog more, especially since it is the one that got me hooked on LJ's.

Nice work on your benches Sylvain and Auggie!!!

Sorry for being a slacker ;-) Got distracted with the beer swap.


----------



## Sylvain

Very nice leg vise Turtle.

Nice work on your bench Duke.
With such a tick top I wander if the stretchers were needed.
(see Don Williams 
He just screw stretchers as shelf support; IMHO screwing would not help against raking on the long term)

I have nothing against country music but I would like to develop Paul Sellers sensitivity.
He says he can tune his #4 lateral lever by the sound of shavings.
I try also to hear the difference between "Tap Tap" and "Thud" when chiseling a mortise.

Otherwise I agree with the list.


----------



## NateCreates83

Anybody seen the Samurai and his bench? I'm really contemplating buying the plans. I'm just beginning to woodwork. I've got a couple projects under my belt, but I know I need a bench before I attack anything more serious. My skill set definitely needs improved, and I thought this bench in particular would suit my needs very well as it is particularly functional ok…...and REALLY good looking. I love the through tenons! Any better ideas would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## duckmilk

Hi Nate. Instead of buying a set of plans, I think you would be better served to buy one (or both) of Chris Shwarz's workbench books. He sells them through his site, Lost Art Press dot com. They are comprehensive and cover many different styles of work bench and there are plans (sort of) or drawings of the different styles. He also goes into the details and it is an interesting read.

There are other bench books out there, but these are the ones I am familiar with and thought you should consider that option first.


----------



## ssnvet

If I was going to buy Bench Crafted hardware, I would use the Bench Crafted plans….

but that's not me… I'm too much of a glutton for punishment and have to design and fabricate everything myself. I've horded away a nice lead screw and nuts for my future bench build… All I'm lacking is shop space :^o


----------



## Bertha

Nate, I'd go with duckmilk on this one. It's a bench. It just needs to be flat and level. Some might add a way to hold your work. The rest is personal preference for the most part. As long as you use the heaviest, thickest stuff you can find, you can always fix any mistake you make along the way. If you have a chisel, a hammer, some glue, and some wood scraps, you can generally repair a build gone bad. In my experience, if you worry too much about looks, you'll miss out on functionality. Benches that stay pretty are usually not being used to potential. I've never heard anyone complain about their bench being too big, too heavy, or too simple. Best of luck!

I'd like to see a bench made of 10 sheets of particle board on a level 4 inch tubular steel frame. Cobble together a front vise. Epoxy the top and drill for dogs. You wreck it, trash the top ply. I bet it would work as good, or better, than mine.


----------



## Bertha

^move that 'best of luck' to the end of that post. Pretty obvious I was stuck in the stream of consciousness lol.


----------



## theoldfart

Nate, Ducks correct on the Schwarz books. Lots of good ideas just don't spend too much time deciding on THE correct bench. Berthas approach is your best starting approach. Keep it simple, eventually experience will dictate what's going to work for you long term. It'd be a shame to build a state of the art bench that does't fit your needs. I used a POS kit from a chain store for three years before I built my lifetime Roubo. It works well for make since I use hand tools 95% of the time.


----------



## CL810

I also agree regarding Schwarz's books. But, for a first bench, I'd strongly suggest taking a look at Paul Sellers' bench.


----------



## jmartel

Nate,

I'd suggest you make your first bench quick, cheap, and easy to build. Note that I said first bench. There's a great chance you'll be building another. Use the first to figure out what you want out of your nice one. There's plenty of plans out there using construction lumber and/or ply.

But make sure the top is thick enough that you can use holdfasts and get a pair from Gramercy. Makes life much easier.


----------



## Bertha

^quality steel holdfasts changed my life.


----------



## August

Bertha????


----------



## ssnvet

Sir Stumpy Nubs 2x Rubou would be another good candidate for a first bench.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

> Nate,
> 
> I d suggest you make your first bench quick, cheap, and easy to build. Note that I said first bench. There s a great chance you ll be building another. Use the first to figure out what you want out of your nice one. There s plenty of plans out there using construction lumber and/or ply.
> 
> But make sure the top is thick enough that you can use holdfasts and get a pair from Gramercy. Makes life much easier.
> 
> I agree with jmartel, keep it simple and cheap except for the vise. I would sport for a good Quality leg vise that you can use right away and when you build another future bench you can swap it over and plan the bench around it.
> 
> - jmartel


----------



## Bertha

August! How are you?


----------



## August

> August! How are you?
> 
> - Bertha


Hey bud I'm good how's life?
All is well I'm learning woodworking now just a little


----------



## revrok

Be creative on cost to get as much bench as you can for the money. jmartel's advice is awesome, as is the advise to get Schwarz' book. Samurai's bench is awesome though! Just not a good first bench unless made with construction lumber. I'd bet he has over $1k in it.


----------



## Sylvain

Nate,
A fancy workbench is not necessary, just look what Bandit can achieve on his "one afternoon" workbench .

That being said, making a workbench is also a way to develop skill if you don't already have them. 
You also have to decide where to put the bar height.

I have spent something like 150.-Eur on mine (130.- € for the vise).


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

+Infinity re: the Workbenches book from the Schwarz. Benches are made to hold wood while working faces, edges and ends. Solid is good, heavy is good too. Perfect flatness not required, mostly flat is. The book explores different ways to hold wood while performing each of many typical woodworking tasks. Read it, make up your own mind on how you want to work, and build something.

You'll learn a lot.

Duke and Sylvain, awesome work!


----------



## kiefer

Hi Guys 
Just posted a build post and video on the auto quick release for my leg vise
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/337193
I know a lot of you have ask for it so here it is and enjoy !









KLAUS


----------



## duckmilk

Read, watched and commented. Thanks Klaus!


----------



## Bluenote38

Finished! Wagon vise on one end and a Wilton on the other 1/2" steel 7"x8" plate inlet and wedged in place.


----------



## OleGrump

Well Gang, They ARE still out there! This is what I picked up at a flea market yesterday for fifteen dollars:



























And complete with the ratchet to keep the jaws even:

















I saw it lying on the ground with a price tag of $18, which I would have gladly paid, as the screw and nut mechanism are well worth it, let alone the ratchet. As I was looking at it, the lady came over and asked me if I knew what it was. I told her it is a leg vise for a workbench. She said she thought it was part of a harnass makers bench and was missing the seat part. Then the nice lady said, since you know what it is, and you're interested, you can have it for fifteen. I almost gave myself a paper cut paying her so fast.
The rear jaw is 36 1/4 high. The top of both jaws are 4" then they widen to 5 1/2". The moving jaw is 30" and tapers down to 1 1/2" at the base. The screw is 17 1/2" OL as is the metal ratchet mechanism. Now I'm gonna HAFTA get busy building my main woodworking bench, so I can put this baby and ME back to work makin' sawdust.
P.S. I kinda like the "elongated coffin" look. Something I hadn't seen before.


----------



## theoldfart

It does have nice lines and color Grump. SO get a move on!


----------



## CL810

Awesome bench Bill, what's that to the right of your wagon vise?

Grump that is one heckuva find and why are you on the internet when a bench needs building?? ;-)


----------



## Bluenote38

> Awesome bench Bill, what s that to the right of your wagon vise?
> 
> - CL810


Thanks - It's been a work in progress for quite a while. On the right is a 1/2" Steel anvil plate. My grandfather was a pattern maker and had one embedded into his bench - this bench is pretty much a copy of his (from memory) but he had a pattern maker vise instead of the Wilton.


----------



## kiefer

Read, watched and commented. Thanks Klaus!

- duckmilk

Thanks Duckmilk
Appreciate your comment and hope others will look at the post and video .

Klaus


----------



## OleGrump

While I had been planning on installing a leg vise, I had only thought about the hardware that would be required, such as the screw and nut. I never dreamed that I'd be lugging home an ENTIRE leg vise. (Good thing "The Boss" was at work…...) OK, since this is a nice, vintage vise, fully intact and well assembled, the project has to be re-thought a little bit to accommodate the entire piece. I've already been at the drawing board (Well, drawing pad, anyway) concocting ways to achieve that goal. As you can see by the photos, there are already holes for and two of the original carriage bolts, so I want to use those. Otherwise, a good cleaning with some mineral spirits to get rid of some old paint spots is really all I intend to do.
The only slight modification I MAY make is the addition of a foot operated lever to raise the ratchet mechanism off of the bottom bolt so the jaw can be opened and close freely. There is a drawing of this mechanism in "The Workbench Book". The device shown was adapted from a 1915 article from Popular Mechanics. Looks pretty darned efficient. You step on the front of a lever which pushes the ratchet up until you're ready to lower it again.
BTW, I couldn't help myself. I found a very stout Stanley clamp on corner vise for five dollars. Didn't really "need" it, but at that price, it came home with me anyway…..


----------



## BrentParkin

Well I never realized there was a thread going for workbench builds. Not sure how I could have missed it. Anyway, I had added my recent build as a project and had some very nice comments which I appreciated. But I suppose I should have a reference to it in this thread. Here is the link to the project where there are tons of pictures and text. http://lumberjocks.com/projects/337329

I built a split top Roubo from 4×6 fir I had on hand. It was a low budget build with mostly lumber that has been in my racks for ages. The top was the only new wood purchased.










I have been using it a few weeks now and so far enjoy it much more than my older bench I built 25 years ago.










Hopefully it helps inspire anyone thinking of building a split top.

Brent


----------



## ssnvet

Looks like a classic Brent.


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## CL810

Brent, there are a lot of gems in the pics in your project post. Anyone considering a bench build would benefit from studying them.

Great work!


----------



## Bertha

Thanks, Brent! CL's right; there's a lot of good stuff going on there. Are your moxon screws from Texas? I've got a pair and the maple, I just lack the initiative. Really great bench with a sexy leg.


----------



## August

I do own a 3/4-6 acme tap 
??
Just saying


----------



## BrentParkin

Hi Bertha,

My moxon vise screws are just 3/4" Acme threaded rod and the giant wing nuts are home made. Super low cost and they work perfect. I guess they do look like the Texas Heritage ones LOL. I'm just working on a smaller Moxon now that uses some dumbbell parts I picked up at Walmart. Even cheaper LOL.

I really love the leg vise shape. The design is borrowed from Kari Hultman's Roubo bench.



> Thanks, Brent! CL s right; there s a lot of good stuff going on there. Are your moxon screws from Texas? I ve got a pair and the maple, I just lack the initiative. Really great bench with a sexy leg.
> 
> - Bertha


----------



## Bertha

Thanks, Brent. You're describing exactly the $90 Tx Heritage ones. Just acme thread and short bars welded to a nut. I've got a welder buddy who's pretty handy. He offered to bend/cut/weld horseshoes into a ring and weld them to my TX setup. Kind of a *********************************** benchcrafted. I'll post pics if I end up doing it. Thanks again.


----------



## chrisstef

I see no Bondo's. Jus sayin.


----------



## OleGrump

Did a little experimenting with the leg vise pictured above. While I want to keep it as original as possible, I had the idea to invert the parallel ratchet so the slots faced upward. If it worked, then I could install a foot operated catch to lock it into place as needed, instead of having to lift the bar and hook it onto the carriage bolt through the rear jaw as made. The theory was good, anyway. This was not possible due to the angle the mortise in the moving jaw is cut and the fact the hole in the metal bar is off center. (And would be a bitch to try and re-drill)
OK. "If I can't lower the water, I've got to raise the bridge", right? No need now for any of the contraptions I've dreamed up for a movable latch. Some would say that's a real drawback in "ease" of adjustment. Well, IF I needed to make LARGE adjustments several times a day or even a week, yes. Since I'm still working full time, I only get to do "Night and/or Weekend" woodworking, so the need for vast adjustments would be rare. 
The current plan is to leave the vise parallel system in place and install it on a bench. Once in place, I'll put a bolt through the rear-most slot in the ratchet and run the bolt through a piece of wood long enough to serve as a bar to lift it upward, either by hand or left foot when more range than usual is needed.


----------



## Northwest29

Brent, what dumb bell parts did you get and how do plan to use them? Thanks-


----------



## BrentParkin

Hi Ron,

Here are the parts and how I used them.

Brent

























































> Brent, what dumb bell parts did you get and how do plan to use them? Thanks-
> 
> - Northwest29


Well it started with two basic 14" barbell handles that were about $10 each at Walmart. Add a couple of big washers, two 2.5lb weights and a few brass machine screws etc. Here are some pictures that should tell enough of a story on how to build one. This was the test vise on some scrap. Once I knew it worked, I used some decent wood to finish them up. The barbells are NOT ACME threaded rods, but they are so similar that they spin nicely like ACME stuff does. But you can not interchange parts.

So first cut the foam handle off the middle of each bar
Drill your holes and countersink for the big washer
Attach two of the barbell nuts to the back of the vise one at each hole
Attach a barbell nut to the weights with some bolts.

Done. You can fancy it up more as you desire. But this is all you need to do the job.


----------



## revrok

Nice!



> Brent, what dumb bell parts did you get and how do plan to use them? Thanks-
> 
> - Northwest29
> 
> Well it started with two basic 14" barbell handles that were about $10 each at Walmart. Add a couple of big washers, two 2.5lb weights and a few brass machine screws etc. Here are some pictures that should tell enough of a story on how to build one. This was the test vise on some scrap. Once I knew it worked, I used some decent wood to finish them up. The barbells are NOT ACME threaded rods, but they are so similar that they spin nicely like ACME stuff does. But you can not interchange parts.
> 
> So first cut the foam handle off the middle of each bar
> Drill your holes and countersink for the big washer
> Attach two of the barbell nuts to the back of the vise one at each hole
> Attach a barbell nut to the weights with some bolts.
> 
> Done. You can fancy it up more as you desire. But this is all you need to do the job.
> 
> - BrentParkin


----------



## Northwest29

Brent, thanks for the great info in your reply, much appreciated.


----------



## ssnvet

Brent… I hope you didn't strain any muscles with those 2.5# weights and am glad to see them safely repurposed
:^p


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## Bertha

lol what a great idea! Woodworkers, man, they'll come up with stuff.


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## JMiller1975

My workbench was my first woodworking project. I had very little space as this is an outdoor "shop." I did this with all hand tools and traditional joinery (the only fasteners are for the vice install) The style was inspired by a bunch of YouTube folks. It is made from a total of 8 8' 4×4 redwood fenceposts from the home center.
It is not the work of art that a lot of these are, but I like it.


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## Just_Iain

> My workbench was my first woodworking project. I had very little space as this is an outdoor "shop." I did this with all hand tools and traditional joinery (the only fasteners are for the vice install) The style was inspired by a bunch of YouTube folks. It is made from a total of 8 8 4×4 redwood fenceposts from the home center.
> It is not the work of art that a lot of these are, but I like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Jason Miller


Jason looks great. And the use of fence post is a smart move to keep cost under control.


----------



## revrok

> My workbench was my first woodworking project. I had very little space as this is an outdoor "shop." I did this with all hand tools and traditional joinery (the only fasteners are for the vice install) The style was inspired by a bunch of YouTube folks. It is made from a total of 8 8 4×4 redwood fenceposts from the home center.
> It is not the work of art that a lot of these are, but I like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Jason Miller


Great bench! Redwood is a fantastic choice for a bench used outdoors.


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## DanKrager

That is a sweet little bench, Jason. Redwood is also a good choice because it will yield to a dropped hardwood and not inflict so much damage on your workpieces that go astray.

DanK


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## TheTurtleCarpenter

I finally got around to posting over on the projects page. My first proper workbench. http://lumberjocks.com/projects/341098#comment-4163618


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## terryR

Wow!

Really like your shop. Nice big bandsaw, and lots of hand tools. Perfect combination IMO.


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## HokieKen

Lovely bench Turtle! I did a similar split top (sorta) to use removable/sliding stops/tool holders. I haven't made my inserts yet but I've been using the bench for a couple months and find it very useful.


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## TheFridge

> I see no Bondo s. Jus sayin.
> 
> - chrisstef


Ditto


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## TheFridge

I used some 3/4-6 acme rod and nuts for all my vises. End vise takes some time but for moxon it's great. I wish I coulda got 2 start threading which would halve the turns per inch for my end vise.


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## TheTurtleCarpenter

> I see no Bondo s. Jus sayin.
> 
> - chrisstef
> 
> Ditto
> 
> Don't want nobody Pine'n over me Daisy Mae !


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## theoldfart

"Don't want nobody Pine'n over me Daisy Mae !"

no worries, not gonna happen!


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## kiefer

I used some 3/4-6 acme rod and nuts for all my vises. End vise takes some time but for moxon it s great. I wish I coulda got 2 start threading which would halve the turns per inch for my end vise.

- TheFridge

This may interest you it makes it a lot faster to open and close .


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## duckmilk

Klaus, when I (eventually) get my bench built, I plan on using your design plus Jim's (Boatman53) chain device to use on my leg vise. I've been following this thread for 2 more years than I've been a member. Your parallel design for your leg vise is great and well thought out (as is most everything I have seen from you), but I like Jim's chain design as well. Thank you for your contributions to all of us here!



> I see no Bondo s. Jus sayin.
> 
> - chrisstef


Brent, it all started with Bondogaposis posing on top of his finished workbench and now most of the crew here have followed suit (I warn you to not look too long at Fridge's pose though). Now called the "Bondo Pose".
NICE bench by the way, and I too have seen Kari's bench.
Done anything with your namesake saw yet?

Jason, a bench that is functional is beautiful to all of us. Nice job.

Love your bench Turtle. C'mon, be a sport ;-))


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## kiefer

Klaus, when I (eventually) get my bench built, I plan on using your design plus Jim's (Boatman53) chain device to use on my leg vise. I've been following this thread for 2 more years than I've been a member. Your parallel design for your leg vise is great and well thought out (as is most everything I have seen from you), but I like Jim's chain design as well. Thank you for your contributions to all of us here!

Duckmilk

I am not sure what you are saying as I don't see this functioning together as my vise eliminates the lower bar and has the quick release so that it can be slide in and out .
Please explain .

Klaus


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## Northwest29

Klaus, what is the 'white' material in the above post on 10-12? I assume it is not wood. Thanks.


----------



## kiefer

Hi Ron
The white material is UHMW and in my experience it does not work any better then Baltic Birch plywood but I had to try it just to see and the material( UHMW) is faily expensive .
Take a look at the video I show it at the beginning .





Klaus


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## duckmilk

> I am not sure what you are saying as I don t see this functioning together as my vise eliminates the lower bar and has the quick release so that it can be slide in and out .
> Please explain .
> 
> Klaus
> 
> - kiefer


You may be right. Jim's chain is like bicycle chain that connects a lower parallel guide to the front jaw via lower and upper rollers keeping the front jaw parallel to the leg. This eliminates (as does yours) the need for holes and a pin for the lower guide.
Maybe my thoughts on combining your two designs is in error though.


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## MagicalMichael

I have been contemplating a new workbench for a couple of years now and studying the options for about six months. I think I have made all the big decisions, except about the end vice - full tail vice or wagon vice. I have been using a Tage Frigd bench for 30 years now and like many things about it. I want another shoulder vice but will go with a Ruobo style top, because the construction essentially creates a quarter sawn platform, which minimizes movement and simplifies the shoulder vice construction considerably. I will probably also move from trestle to legs for the base. Currently I use the bench dogs and the shoulder vice almost every day I am in my shop, but rarely use the opening in the tail vice. However I do the final planning of drawer sides in it. I fit the drawer into the opening, just a bit above the top and then put a stool or a telescoping support underneath. I'm not sure how I would best go about this without the tail vice and wonder how others tackle it?

Traditional tail vices are a lot of work and sooner or later the wooden runners wear down. I am leaning toward wooden vice screws and am also a bit reluctant, but not totally against, using the Lie-Neilsen or Veritas platforms. A wagon vice simplify construction and allow me to use those really big threads. Will there be days I will really miss that tail vice opening?


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## Hammerthumb

So I went to Washington in the Great Northwest to help my friend put together his bench. We started this project on Thursday last week and finished on Wednesday this week. I did not have time to post during the build so here it is for the record.
He had pre-laminated the top into 3 sections, and had the legs laminated. He had also purchased a criss-cross vise. What I found is that they sent the Retro instead of the Solo, so we went ahead and installed what he had.

Legs - 5-1/4" x 5-1/4" 









Laminated the top - 3-1/4" x 29-1/2" x 84". I'm not positive about the length. It may be larger.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I forgot to mention that the legs were about 36" long to start with. After I cut the tennons, I sized them so the bench ended up at 35" tall.
So we started on the joinery for the stretchers, and chopping the recess for the Criss Cross.

Here is my friend Mike. He has 2 of the side stretcher mortices completed, and is marking out for the other 2.









Here is the front left leg with the recess for the Criss Cross.


----------



## Hammerthumb

The legs and stretchers were glued and draw bored together.









And the base is complete.









We set the top on to mark it out for the leg tennons.


----------



## kiefer

I have been contemplating a new workbench for a couple of years now and studying the options for about six months. I think I have made all the big decisions, except about the end vice - full tail vice or wagon vice. I have been using a Tage Frigd bench for 30 years now and like many things about it. I want another shoulder vice but will go with a Ruobo style top, because the construction essentially creates a quarter sawn platform, which minimizes movement and simplifies the shoulder vice construction considerably. I will probably also move from trestle to legs for the base. Currently I use the bench dogs and the shoulder vice almost every day I am in my shop, but rarely use the opening in the tail vice. However I do the final planning of drawer sides in it. I fit the drawer into the opening, just a bit above the top and then put a stool or a telescoping support underneath. I m not sure how I would best go about this without the tail vice and wonder how others tackle it?

Traditional tail vices are a lot of work and sooner or later the wooden runners wear down. I am leaning toward wooden vice screws and am also a bit reluctant, but not totally against, using the Lie-Neilsen or Veritas platforms. A wagon vice simplify construction and allow me to use those really big threads. Will there be days I will really miss that tail vice opening?

- MagicalMichael

Here is a vise combination I made for my workbench that may interest you Michael it has worked out great and after changing the handle for a wheel I liked it even better .
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/105719
Since this post I developed a quick release mechanism and I will build a bench for a friend this winter and incorporate it into the vise design and also use UHMW bearings for the wood slides which should take care of wear .http://lumberjocks.com/projects/337193 
Here is my benchtop vise with the quick release clamped in the tail vise but it will be mounted on a base so I can tilt and swivel it .









Klaus


----------



## Hammerthumb

So we chopped the mortices into the top and set it back on.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Mike had forgotten to pick up and end vice so we went down to Seattle to the local woodworking store to get one.
We came back with this:









And of course we forgot the end vise!
So we got it all assembled, sanded and oiled up.

















So the end of the bench has been prepped with a tennon at the end for the end vice face. Mike is going to install the end vise himself, so there will be another picture or 2 after that is completed.

I told Mike and his wife Judy that no bench is complete without the Bondo pose, so here they are:









That is Mike and Judy. She is a great woodworker and was instrumental in the timely completion of the bench.

I hope you all enjoyed my vacation pictures. ;-)


----------



## CL810

Nice work Paul! That bench will serve him well. A bit disappointed you didn't have a purple wig for her.


----------



## DLK

Great bench. Put it to work ASAP, mark it up , get it dirty. Otherwise it may become living/dining room furniture.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Andy. I told them about the wig, then showed them Fridge's Bondo pose. They thought I was kidding them.

Don't think that will happen Combo. He just got the Gramercy holdfasts for it and has them mounted in the leg holes. He shopping for the end vice on line now.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Mike sent me a new pic. He received his holdfasts.


----------



## Sylvain

MagicalMichael
"However I do the final planning of drawer sides in it. I fit the drawer into the opening, just a bit above the top and then put a stool or a telescoping support underneath. [...] wonder how others tackle it?"_


----------



## Sylvain

Brentparkin,

JasonMiller,

Hammerthumb

nice benches


----------



## CL810

I'm probably the last one to think of this. A 203 can't clamp narrow boards. Today I needed to smooth the sides of several boards so I used these scraps from fitting a sliding dovetail to support and clamp the board with my 203.


----------



## theoldfart

^ next to last one Andy!  Great idea.


----------



## Avogelmi

Here is my new/antique workbench.
I purchased it cheap from a man I met in an antique store.
It was made in the late 1800s to early 1900s by Grand Rapids Hand Screw Co.
It is off its base at the moment so I can work on getting the vises working the way I like. They are worn with a few gaps in the runners. The tail vise nut broke off and will need fastened back in place.
I want to get more grip on the front vise, so I am thinking of some leather.
One thing I am not sure of is whether to drill some holes for a Hold Fast.
Not sure if I need to sand and apply some sort of finish to protect it better either. 
I will be doing alot of relief carving and different jointery for mostly small projects.
Other than that I love it and can not believe the man let it go especially so cheap, but he did say that it wasn't his only bench.
Any advise???


----------



## ToddJB

Nice grab!

I restored the exact same bench a couple years ago.

Did a huge blog series.

Here's the link: http://lumberjocks.com/ToddJB/blog/series/7155

Just realized Photobucket has blocked all of the pics - photobucket can eat it.

Edit: Maybe you can see them here - http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/toddjb1/library/Workbench?sort=3&page=1


----------



## ToddJB

Follow up - I found Cricket's work around and all the pictures work again - here http://lumberjocks.com/ToddJB/blog/series/7155


----------



## DLK

I would not drill any holdfast holes until you are certain you need them. Let your projects dictate where they should be. I like holdfasts, but you can find other ways to secure your work too.


----------



## MagicalMichael

Leg vice advice needed. Not sure if this is the right place on Lumberjocks to post this question but can't find a better alternative. I have never used, let alone built a leg vice. I have seen plenty of pictures but have not paid close attention because I like the shoulder vice on my bench. Until last night, when it occurred to me that a leg vice might be the solution to the build design problem I am struggling with.

My 25 year old, underbuilt outfeed table needs to be replaced, and I want two somewhat unusual features in the new one. I want to use the space under the top to hold a storage cabinet, much like you see in Shaker benches. And, I want to add a vice to the side. When I am ripping lumber I am almost always re-jointing the edge after each cut and it seemed to me that I could put a board in a vice and hand plane the edge faster than I could walk around to the dust collector, open & close blast gates to my power joiner.

I have been fascinated by the speed and innovation of the Hovarter twin screw face vice, which offers a wide support, eliminating the need for a deadman. I went through a number of design reiterations trying to incorporate all of this, and as I studied each design, problems arose in my mind. Yesterday I became concerned that the Hovarter vice would probably need regular maintenance & adjustment, especially in the somewhat dusty environment behind even a well vacuumed table saw, and any under cabinet would make the mechanism hard to get to.

The leg vice offers me simplicity and wouldn't compete for the same real estate that the drawers wanted to use. So, maybe I should build that instead. An outfeed table has much different dimensions than a workbench. This one would be about 30"W by 40"L. It doesn't need more than a 1 1/2 top nor does it need the mass & weight of a good work bench.

All of the builds I have seen have really massive legs & jaw. The one in Scott Landis classic book, for example, has legs of 4 3/4×3 3/4 and a jaw of 4 3/4×2 3/4. I understand that the legs and jaw need to be wide enough to house the screw without compromise but other than that can the build be scaled down to be more in keeping with the bench size and lesser demands of an outfeed table?

Thanks for sharing your experience, Michael


----------



## DanKrager

Michael, you might be able to reach an acceptable compromise between the mass of a good workbench and the lightness of a drawer case equipped outfeed table. It's going to be like designing a lightweight armored tank that flies. Hovarter equipment tempts me mightily, and the site shows his stuff on a leg vise. If I ever go to a leg vise, I'll lean heavily in his direction. 
Hand planing puts enormous pressure on the joints of any bench, so you need some mass at the joints. You might consider building a massive face frame for your drawer case with a leg vise near one end. The drawers could be your deadman, and storing a couple hand planes in the top drawer would make sense in your situation. You don't want to put your plane down on the bench…it will be in the way and you'll just have to pick it up and move it if you don't first lay it into the drawer between uses. So it has to be handy. 
I've built a very strong adjustable height workbench based on Noden legs and the result resists wracking exceptionally well. Good luck.
DanK


----------



## kiefer

Michael
Take a look this it may work for you .
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/229242
There is also a video link in the description which may help .


----------



## bandit571

Mine is just a pipe clamp through a sycamore 2×6, then through the 2×5" leg on my bench. Nothing fancy….









Manage to get a few things done…...


----------



## BigRedKnothead

You guys might get a kick out of this use of the venerable leg vise. How does a guy plane the DT sides of serving/tea trays after glue up?

The scrap blocks are held with carpet tape. 









Clamped by the bottom. Worked like a charm. 









If my God-mothers are watching this forum…sorry I spoiled your Xmas gift;-P


----------



## rbrjr1

this topic interests me, I'll have to read through it when I have an extra day..


----------



## revrok

A leg vise is the most uncomplicated and versatile of all vises. You can make one from laminated construction lumber a piece 3/4 hardwood for the pinboard and a $25 scaffold jack for your vise screw if you have the ability to turn the knob or have a buddy with a lathe. A deadman (or woman) can be replaced with a simple boardjack. Seems like a great addition to what you have planned. Though personally I would build a large Shaker style bench and match it to your tablesaw height, bagging the outfeed table in favor of the mass while retaining the drawers.



> Leg vice advice needed. Not sure if this is the right place on Lumberjocks to post this question but can t find a better alternative. I have never used, let alone built a leg vice. I have seen plenty of pictures but have not paid close attention because I like the shoulder vice on my bench. Until last night, when it occurred to me that a leg vice might be the solution to the build design problem I am struggling with.
> 
> My 25 year old, underbuilt outfeed table needs to be replaced, and I want two somewhat unusual features in the new one. I want to use the space under the top to hold a storage cabinet, much like you see in Shaker benches. And, I want to add a vice to the side. When I am ripping lumber I am almost always re-jointing the edge after each cut and it seemed to me that I could put a board in a vice and hand plane the edge faster than I could walk around to the dust collector, open & close blast gates to my power joiner.
> 
> I have been fascinated by the speed and innovation of the Hovarter twin screw face vice, which offers a wide support, eliminating the need for a deadman. I went through a number of design reiterations trying to incorporate all of this, and as I studied each design, problems arose in my mind. Yesterday I became concerned that the Hovarter vice would probably need regular maintenance & adjustment, especially in the somewhat dusty environment behind even a well vacuumed table saw, and any under cabinet would make the mechanism hard to get to.
> 
> The leg vice offers me simplicity and wouldn t compete for the same real estate that the drawers wanted to use. So, maybe I should build that instead. An outfeed table has much different dimensions than a workbench. This one would be about 30"W by 40"L. It doesn t need more than a 1 1/2 top nor does it need the mass & weight of a good work bench.
> 
> All of the builds I have seen have really massive legs & jaw. The one in Scott Landis classic book, for example, has legs of 4 3/4×3 3/4 and a jaw of 4 3/4×2 3/4. I understand that the legs and jaw need to be wide enough to house the screw without compromise but other than that can the build be scaled down to be more in keeping with the bench size and lesser demands of an outfeed table?
> 
> Thanks for sharing your experience, Michael
> 
> - MagicalMichael


----------



## MagicalMichael

Thanks, Tim. I appreciate the feedback. Actually I need both a new outfeed table and and new bench since both of mine are about 35 years old and showing their age. Additionally both were built at the same height as my old General Table Saw, which was an inch taller than my new Sawstop and the outfeed groves for the miter slots don't match up. Just two of the things I hadn't planned on when I decided to buy a new saw. I certainly agree that in a small shop like mine everything should be the same height. I want the leg vice on the outfeed table to be in addition to whatever ends up on my bench and right where I am after I rip a board.

As for a Shaker bench, they look great but my bench needs to be moveable and transportable. In addition it would be nice to have the option of dual heights. I'm thinking of mounting the table & bench on those fancy new tool feet with coaters from Woodcraft. Not sure how any of that would work out with a Shaker bench.

Michael


----------



## revrok

Rockler has some great workbench casters that do not interfere with the mass of the bench contacting the floor. You get mobility and immobility, best of both worlds. Transportable is a whole other issue though! A bench is your best tool, build what you need and enjoy the heck out of it!



> Thanks, Tim. I appreciate the feedback. Actually I need both a new outfeed table and and new bench since both of mine are about 35 years old and showing their age. Additionally both were built at the same height as my old General Table Saw, which was an inch taller than my new Sawstop and the outfeed groves for the miter slots don t match up. Just two of the things I hadn t planned on when I decided to buy a new saw. I certainly agree that in a small shop like mine everything should be the same height. I want the leg vice on the outfeed table to be in addition to whatever ends up on my bench and right where I am after I rip a board.
> 
> As for a Shaker bench, they look great but my bench needs to be moveable and transportable. In addition it would be nice to have the option of dual heights. I m thinking of mounting the table & bench on those fancy new tool feet with coaters from Woodcraft. Not sure how any of that would work out with a Shaker bench.
> 
> Michael
> 
> - MagicalMichael


----------



## Mosquito

The work bench looks a lot smaller once I got it moved out to the shop from the kitchenette…


----------



## HokieKen

You know what that means Mos'. Get to work on a new bench! ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

lol not in the timeline at the moment, but it is in the backlog


----------



## HokieKen

Believe me, I know the feeling. That's okay, a smaller bench just leaves you more room to amass other tools!


----------



## Mosquito

I always wanted to build a bigger bench as soon as we bought the house with the work shop, but that was obviously going to wait until the shop was done. Now that it is, we'll see when/if that happens. My thought was to build a new base for my current work bench, and add a twin screw face vise instead of the leg vise, and use it as a joinery bench, if I've got the room to justify it. It's been a great bench for me this long, so it owes me nothing at this point.


----------



## Ste13

Hi guys.
What can you say about Grizzly Workbench T10157 (with oak top) or Sjobergs Duo Workbench (33445). Which of them would u recommend for present for my dad. 
He is neophyte in woodworking but like it and want to try.


----------



## DanKrager

Ste13, that's a heretical question! Yes, time is short for this Christmas, but wouldn't it be priceless to give it your personal time and attention to build one? I mean, c'mon man, it's a present for your DAD! He spent 16-20 YEARS bringing you into this world and prepping for life…. a few weeks seems trivial, yes? Give him a certificate promising to work together with him to build one…

Besides. You'll get it back someday.

LAWL!
DanK


----------



## CL810

Ste13, I'd recommend Christopher Schwarz's two books on work benches; Workbenches Revised Edition: From Design & Theory to Construction & Use and The Workbench Design Book. I'm hesitant to speak for others, but I would guess that most, if not all, would agree that building, and then using, their own bench is a special experience.

And you'd have plenty of money left over for a nice Lie Nielsen plane.


----------



## Handtooler

I agree whole heartedly bith building his own. I built Bob Lang's 21st Century bench in a 5' length (his plans available in pdf and video on internet) because of space constraints. And. for me it was a perfect choice. Miie is of pecan because it was available from a storm lay down. But, any hard stable wood would be great. Keep us informed of your choice.


----------



## Sylvain

STE13
Building a workbench with your father would be great.
But I see You are new to this forum and maybe not (yet) a woodworker yourself; so those of us who have one of these commercial workbenches might give a feedback.

As on this thread most people have build their workbench themselves, I am not sure it is the right place to ask such advise.
There is no review about workbenches.
You might ask the question again in a post of its own.


----------



## Just_Iain

> The work bench looks a lot smaller once I got it moved out to the shop from the kitchenette…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito


Mos, without perspective, it looks kids size.


----------



## Just_Iain

Saw this on the website of a lumber yard I was hoping to visit over the holidays. Hard Maple at $60. 
Problems: 
1) Getting it home! I only have a car, 
2) How long would it take to dry at my sisters farm? I live in an apartment and this won't fit under the couch. 
3) How do you join anything that thick?, 
4) It's almost a small bench in one piece in that you could get the legs out of it as well as a 4" top.

As tempting as it is…


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos, without perspective, it looks kids size.
> 
> - Just_Iain


Exactly lol


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Saw this on the website of a lumber yard I was hoping to visit over the holidays. Hard Maple at $60.
> Problems:
> 1) Getting it home! I only have a car,
> 2) How long would it take to dry at my sisters farm? I live in an apartment and this won t fit under the couch.
> 3) How do you join anything that thick?,
> 4) It s almost a small bench in one piece in that you could get the legs out of it as well as a 4" top.
> 
> As tempting as it is…
> 
> - Just_Iain


That is a crazy good price for hard maple, that's a little over $1 a bft, granted it is green , but even still.


----------



## MagicalMichael

STE 13. Many people who like to do woodworking don't necessarily want to build a workbench. I have a good friend who likes to do small things and wood turnings. He has a Lie-Nielsen bench. Another is a boat builder and he built a rudimentary knock off the Lie-Nielsen bench. Also building a full size bench without a bench & bunch of power tools is overwhelming. I built my first bench as a neophyte, but I enrolled in a local woodworking school to do it. I think the suggestion of buying your dad both the Scot Landis & Chris Schwartz books is good. Perhaps you can read and talk & plan together. Also perhaps a membership in a local school or even a weekend course somewhere would be appreciated.
Michael


----------



## Knockonit

I"ve always considered building a new bench, but i have a 40 year old one, i picked up at an estate sale that many years ago, I refurbed it, meaning i flattened it some, cleaned up the vises, and glued some cracks back together, and it still serves me well, so hard to put the old boy out to pasture, so i soldier on, wishing i had a new shiney one to abuse.

I"d say buy one, put some hard abuse on it, and make it part of the family of tools one will eventually own, or be the stewart of. 
have fun 
Rj


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> ...building a full size bench without a bench & bunch of power tools is overwhelming.

If you've got a pair of sawhorses, you can build a full size bench. Without a bunch of power tools.


----------



## Mosquito

Or a work mate. Though my fullsize bench is just over 4' long…

Although I did end up using this bench too 









And this work table


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I alternately used a plastic 30-gal trash barrel or the base of a tavern table to support my benchtop throughout the build process.


----------



## Mosquito

^ See. Point is, it doesn't take a bench to build a bench, just determination


----------



## Ste13

Thanks to all for your advice.
I read few reviews and I think I'll buy Sjobergs Duo Workbench. Because it can be upgraded by different Sjobergs tools. e.g. storage.
I think it will be good for his anniversary. 
Maybe it will be interesting to read for someone with problem like mine - review I think it good enough.


----------



## Sylvain

STE13
Paul Sellers has a serie of blog and video video where he is building a workbench in his garden on something quite unstable (serie in 2012 but still available on his site).
He has now decided to make new videos with better sound and lighting but fundamentally the old videos + blog posts have served me well.
There are a few new tricks showed in the new serie. 
Also the tool well is with tong and groove in the new serie.
He is using two saw horses.
I have built mine on a B&D Workmate with recycled lumber. The main expense was the vise.
While building a workbench, one learn to plane, saw and make tenon and mortise. Very few (hand)tools are necessary. 
My workbench is not a nice piece of furniture but now I have a solid base to hone my (new) skills.

Maybe an experienced woodworker could do one (P.S. Type workbench) in about 24 working hours but as a newbie I probably spent at 3 or 4 times as much. But that is part of the learning process.
In the same time I had to tune my crappy #4 plane, learn how to sharpen plane and chisel and review X times the videos including some about basic techniques.

Now we don't know if you and your father have much time nor if you live far away from each other. So buying might be a an option.

In any case it will be a wonderful anniversary gift.


----------



## theoldfart

I made my bench top first then used it on my sawhorses to make a few projects including a table and chair set for my grandkids. I finally made the base using the bench top on the saw horses. The saw horses had removable risers so I could experiment with different bench heights. Others on LJ's can confirm the long build time!


----------



## bandit571

One of these days…I'll post a "build-along" on the bench I have been using in my shop…..we'll see….


----------



## Slyy

Can confirm, sawhorses work well and provide a place to have a place to do additional work on the bench in progress.


----------



## revrok

The Schwarz had an article/blog on green tops. He actually favors them. Buy it and build your bench, I say! Beg borrow or steal a pickup or use blankets and tie downs on the roof! Awesome deal Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand perfect slab for a bench!



> Saw this on the website of a lumber yard I was hoping to visit over the holidays. Hard Maple at $60.
> Problems:
> 1) Getting it home! I only have a car,
> 2) How long would it take to dry at my sisters farm? I live in an apartment and this won t fit under the couch.
> 3) How do you join anything that thick?,
> 4) It s almost a small bench in one piece in that you could get the legs out of it as well as a 4" top.
> 
> As tempting as it is…
> 
> - Just_Iain


----------



## avsmusic1

> Saw this on the website of a lumber yard I was hoping to visit over the holidays. Hard Maple at $60.
> Problems:
> 1) Getting it home! I only have a car,
> 2) How long would it take to dry at my sisters farm? I live in an apartment and this won t fit under the couch.
> 3) How do you join anything that thick?,
> 4) It s almost a small bench in one piece in that you could get the legs out of it as well as a 4" top.
> 
> As tempting as it is…
> 
> - Just_Iain


What size car and how far away? I'd make a couple trips for this. It's probably too heavy to put on the top of your car but you must have a HD nearby that you could rent a truck for on the cheap, no? At this price, I'd happily eat a $40 truck rental fee


----------



## Just_Iain

Car is a VW rabbit and I suspect it would greatly exceed the carrying capacity of my $400 roof racks.

Unfortunately its a 2 1/2 hour drive each way and the mileage on a rental would be miserable. If they have it after Christmas, I'll think about it.


----------



## HokieKen

I built my first workbench in about 2 hours. It's 2×4s, 4×4s and 3/4 ply top with hardwood flooring on the ply. It was a decent user but when I decided to build my real bench, it made a great place to work. Just saying, if you have the scrap laying around, taking a couple hours to build a crappy but solid bench may be worthwhile to aid in building a new bench.









Iain, where is that lumber yard? If you're going to pass on that wood, LJs that might be close to it would probably appreciate a shot at it. I know I would…


----------



## HokieKen

Oh, table saw can be a handy surface too.


----------



## MagicalMichael

I have a question about using a wood screw in a leg vice. After much searching, thinking and wavering I am about to start construction on a new outfeed table. I will use the Benchcrafted classic bench plans and then add a 12" shelf between the backside of the table and the saw. Since I do a lot of frame & panel work which requires a lot of alternately ripping & re-jointing boards I want the ready access to a vice for hand planing, which I think will be faster than walking around opening & closing blast gates and then using a power jointer.. Anyway that is why I have settled on an outfeed table with a leg vice, but am still undecided between the Benchcrafted and Lake Erie screws. I am concerned that in a leg vice with an exposed screw I could drop a heavy board onto the threads, damaging them. If there are users with wooden screws in a leg vice I would like to know what your experience has been.


----------



## Mosquito

I made my own screw using a wood thread and tap kit I got from highland woodworker. I bought the largest one I could, which I think was 1-1/2" 6tpi. It works fine, but if you were going to be constantly changing the thickness of what you'll be clamping, the 6-tpi is a little slow.

Most of the wood screw will be under the outfeed table anyway with only what's between the leg and chop exposed, so I wouldn't worry much about dropping boards on it. I have only a couple times with mine in the past 5 years, and it was usually me not holding tight enough by hand when I loosen the vise to remove the board.

I would go bench crafted myself. I have heard that the Lake Erie screws are nice, but have heard several stories about people waiting for quite a long time and/or never actually getting their order and having to ask for a refund. But then again, I think you can buy them from other sources now, like Lie-Nielsen, so that issue may be alleviated.

In summary, my preference would be the bench crafted, followed by Lake Erie. I'm guessing budget isn't much of a concern since you're looking at probably the 2 most expensive options, so the DIY route probably isn't high on your list. It's just personal preference though, I don't think you'd go wrong with either.


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, Lake Erie was NOT the problem company. I had an issue with the company your talking about, it was Big Vise or something like that. Lake Erie was fantastic to work with.

I find that the wood screws with their big pitch threads are faster to operate. I barley have to pressure the handle to get an iron grip. Note, do not use cork on the vise face. I actually squeezed it off the face!


----------



## Mosquito

They've probably sorted it out by now, so it's probably not relevant anymore, but I definitely know it was Lake Erie that people had issues with several years ago. I think Al (Bertha) may have been one who waited for quite a long time for theirs? I'm not recalling who, but I definitely remember some.

I've also seen some on eBay in the past that looked pretty good too, and a little cheaper


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, I did a little digging and the companies name was Big Wooden Vise. I had to contact my CC company to get my money back. They were pretty much out of business but did not update the website. I got their name from a Chris Schwartz posting, maybe even the first Benchbook.This was in September/October of 2013.

Edit: Just found Al's post from 2012

"Still not a single peep from the bigwoodvise guy. Took my money no problem; it's the contact that seems difficult for him. I've been giving him the benefit of the doubt (illness, etc.) but my patience is nearing an end.
.
Should have gone Lake Eerie like everyone here recommended."


----------



## Carloz

> 2) How long would it take to dry at my sisters farm? I live in an apartment and this won t fit under the couch.
> 
> - Just_Iain


Depending where your sister's farm is about 8-10 years.


----------



## JADobson

Brent Parkins dropped off these two 4×12 Doug fir beams. Great to meet another jock in the flesh. Roubo in my future.


----------



## bandit571

Seen at an Antique store about 3 blocks from my house..









$225? Even has a planing stop..









I don't have the room for it, nor the cash…..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Brent Parkins dropped off these two 4×12 Doug fir beams. Great to meet another jock in the flesh. Roubo in my future.
> 
> - JADobson


Awesome! Can't wait to see it come together!


----------



## Slyy

Any pro-tips on how to make sure do drill a 1.5" hole straight, through a 6" thick leg?


----------



## DanKrager

Sure, use a straight hole driller! No matter what you use, it's a good idea to drill from both sides to the middle. Cuts any errors in 1/2. Got a drill press big enough? Two speed squares and a 14" brace on a 1 1/2" expansion bit is a cardio workout. Good luck!

DanK


----------



## jmartel

> Brent Parkins dropped off these two 4×12 Doug fir beams. Great to meet another jock in the flesh. Roubo in my future.
> 
> - JADobson


I think that's cheating. That's only one glue-up for the top.


----------



## DLK

> Any pro-tips on how to make sure do drill a 1.5" hole straight, through a 6" thick leg?
> 
> - Slyy


You could with a plunge router and straight bit plunge a straight starting hole. Then drill a thin pilot hole with corded drill all the way through. Then drill from each side a 1.5" hole with a forstner bit. If you have any sort of drill press you can first drill a 1.5" hole with forstner bit into 3/4" thick stock to make a template. Secure the template over the leg to use as a guide to get a straight hole started with the corded hand drill and 1.5" forstner bit. (Glue two of the 3/4" stock or use a piece of 2 by 6 to get a thicker template.) Use the point of the forstner bit and the thin pilot hole to center the template. Once you get as deep as you can with the template on remove it and drill deeper. Now drill from the other sided using the pre-drilled thin pilot hole to center the template.


----------



## JADobson

> Brent Parkins dropped off these two 4×12 Doug fir beams. Great to meet another jock in the flesh. Roubo in my future.
> 
> - JADobson
> 
> I think that s cheating. That s only one glue-up for the top.
> 
> - jmartel


Which means that if I screw it up I'm in trouble


----------



## DLK

> Brent Parkins dropped off these two 4×12 Doug fir beams. Great to meet another jock in the flesh. Roubo in my future.
> 
> - JADobson
> 
> I think that s cheating. That s only one glue-up for the top.
> 
> - jmartel
> 
> Which means that if I screw it up I m in trouble
> 
> - JADobson


If you screw up you just build a router plane.


----------



## BrentParkin

> Brent Parkin dropped off these two 4×12 Doug fir beams. Great to meet another jock in the flesh. Roubo in my future.
> 
> - JADobson


Or you can avoid the lamination and go with a split top like I did. LOL. 

It was a pleasure to meet you James and we will have to get together again the next time I am up in Saskatoon!

Brent


----------



## john2005

Nice to see there is still good work going on around here.


----------



## Boatman53

Here is one on CL near me. Not mine.

https://longisland.craigslist.org/atq/d/antique-workbench-carpentry/6464336699.html

Have fun.
Jim


----------



## rad457

> Brent Parkins dropped off these two 4×12 Doug fir beams. Great to meet another jock in the flesh. Roubo in my future.
> 
> - JADobson


Think I would rip it into 3" pieces and lamenate it together to keep the long grain on the top?


----------



## BikerDad

> Brent Parkins dropped off these two 4×12 Doug fir beams. Great to meet another jock in the flesh. Roubo in my future.
> 
> - JADobson
> 
> I think that s cheating. That s only one glue-up for the top.
> 
> - jmartel


No glue ups, if he does a Split Top Roubo.


----------



## JADobson

> Brent Parkins dropped off these two 4×12 Doug fir beams. Great to meet another jock in the flesh. Roubo in my future.
> 
> - JADobson
> 
> Think I would rip it into 3" pieces and lamenate it together to keep the long grain on the top?
> 
> - Andre


That's not a bad idea - Might rethink my plan of attack here.


----------



## DLK

You could first laminate them them together and then rip into 3 pieces.


----------



## MagicalMichael

I think ripping first would put less strain on the saw and also make it easier to get the faces flat at max thickness. Probably takes more time but it feels more controllable to me.

Michael


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'd use them just as they are, because it's cool to use big, solid timbers in a bench. I'd deal with any cupping by flattening as necessary.

.
.
.

But then, I'm stubborn that way.


----------



## lysdexic

I'd rip and laminate

.
.
.

But then, I like disagreeing with Smitty.


----------



## bandit571

In use…









Leg vise and the Crochet…..40" plank needed jointed…


----------



## bandit571

That shelf sticks out a bit, for a reason…









For when a panel ( or 2 ) need the edges jointed….it adds a bit of support. shelf is about the same height as the leg vises clamp rod….


----------



## Mr_Pink

> I d use them just as they are, because it s cool to use big, solid timbers in a bench. I d deal with any cupping by flattening as necessary.
> 
> But then, I m stubborn that way.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I'm with you. At first I thought people were joking about ripping those timbers and gluing them back together, but now I'm not sure anymore.

Ripping the timbers and gluing them back together sounds a lot more stubborn (and tiring) than using them as they are.


----------



## BrentParkin

I used the 4×12's exactly as they were with my Roubo last summer and I have no regrets. They have stayed quite flat as they finished drying out now that they are indoors. I will reflatten my top in the summer when I adjust things for the split top opening which has grown 1/4" wider as the wood dried out fully. I planned for that so its no problem at all.


----------



## MagicalMichael

I really enjoyed the FWW article on Tage Frid. http://www.finewoodworking.com/2018/02/14/professor-frid I noticed that his "classroom", not surprisingly, had a bunch of benches that are patterned after his famous bench. At least from the photo there is no sign of any slack in the tail vice, and the article suggests he would not have tolerated any.

Michael


----------



## JADobson

Decided to keep my slabs as they are, just trimming the ends before the glue up.


----------



## JADobson

Got the Douglas fir slabs glued up this evening. Roubo is coming along nicely. Those are the legs the top is resting on.


----------



## MagicalMichael

I am working on a new outfeed table patterned with the Benchcrafted Classic plans, including the leg vice and a router plate inset. I have built the top, legs, & chop and have now come to the point of cutting the mortises and the big hole for the screw, but no longer have a drill press. Has anyone reading this attempted to drill that 2 9/16 hole without a drill press? How did you do it and how did it go? Or, do I need to bite into the checkbook and buy another drill press?

BTW, I'm working in poplar.

Michael


----------



## DanKrager

A 2 9/16" hole in poplar is a piece of cake for a brace and expansion bit. You can make the common 10" size brace do the job but it will make you work. A larger brace is significantly easier. Spend your money on a good brace and bit and save the rest of the drill press money for more tits or different size braces. Just trying to enable where I can to hold up tradition here…

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

"more tits or different size braces. Just trying to enable where I can to hold up tradition here…"

Dan ? I'm appalled! Hehe


----------



## MagicalMichael

Thanks Dan. I inherited a large set of fostner and large brad point bits from my father in law, somehow the brace got away. I have also purchased a 2 9/16 fostner saw tooth from Lee Valley specifically for this job. I don't know what constitutes a "large" brace.

I see what looks like a nice brace on the Lee Valley sits for about $85 and another on the Woodcraft site that doesn't actully look as nice for $159. Dieter Schmidt sells the same brace as L-V and describes it as made in France. Amazon lists a bracefrom Stanley that has good reviews but I don't see it on the Stanley web site, perhaps it is not retailed in the US. Any suggestions?

Michael


----------



## bandit571

14" on the left, down to a 6" on the right….


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Thanks Dan. I inherited a large set of fostner and large brad point bits from my father in law, somehow the brace got away. I have also purchased a 2 9/16 fostner saw tooth from Lee Valley specifically for this job. I don t know what constitutes a "large" brace.
> 
> I see what looks like a nice brace on the Lee Valley sits for about $85 and another on the Woodcraft site that doesn t actully look as nice for $159. Dieter Schmidt sells the same brace as L-V and describes it as made in France. Amazon lists a bracefrom Stanley that has good reviews but I don t see it on the Stanley web site, perhaps it is not retailed in the US. Any suggestions?
> 
> Michael
> 
> - MagicalMichael


A good thread to read is here. I would suggest a good used brace. They are plentiful and cheap around here. I'm pretty sure that you should be able to do well in VT.


----------



## DanKrager

Hahaha, TOF. That one got past me! Freudian slip for sure! Bits, man, BITS!

A large brace IMHO is any over the most common 10". It's common for braces to be listed with all kinds of false information about their size. A brace size is measured primarily by "swing" which is the diameter of the circle made by the centerline of the crank handle.

DanK


----------



## Boatman53

I have a bunch of braces that need a new home. I'll take some pics tomorrow. Just looking for postage, I don't want anything for the braces. 
Jim


----------



## zekemed

Beautiful and functional benches. I'm new to woodworking and new to this site and I thank you all for the inspiration you have given me.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> I am working on a new outfeed table patterned with the Benchcrafted Classic plans, including the leg vice and a router plate inset. I have built the top, legs, & chop and have now come to the point of cutting the mortises and the big hole for the screw, but no longer have a drill press. Has anyone reading this attempted to drill that 2 9/16 hole without a drill press? How did you do it and how did it go? Or, do I need to bite into the checkbook and buy another drill press?
> 
> BTW, I m working in poplar.
> 
> Michael
> 
> - MagicalMichael


If you need high accuracy and a very straight hole, you could buy a drill guide and use a Wood Owl auger bit.


----------



## MagicalMichael

Jim, I'm very interested but am at a conference through Wed. and will have very limited time to check in.


----------



## Sylvain

For large holes, there is always the technique illustrated in the first 6 pictures here


----------



## theoldfart

Ok kids, here's my problem. I'm moving and the new shop will be a garage. My bench is pretty large and heavy and I want to be able to move it around. I'm looking at the Rocklerhttp://www.rockler.com/workbench-caster-kit-4-pack bench casters but they seem a bit wimpy. They have a max load capacity of 100#s so four would be 400#s. My bench is about 350 to 400#s. I do want the wheels to be retractable.

Thoughts?


----------



## MagicalMichael

I hope to build a new bench next winter and plan to put a hinged foot to give me extra bench height when needed andthen to put these casters on them. https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-machine-leveling-caster-plate-mounted-4-pack They are rated for 1360 lbs per set. They sit solidly on the floor but the wheel can be screwed down if you want to move it. Probably not the kind of thing you would want if you move the bench every day, but OK for twice a year.

Michael


----------



## Sunstealer73

> Ok kids, here's my problem. I'm moving and the new shop will be a garage. My bench is pretty large and heavy and I want to be able to move it around. I'm looking at the Rocklerhttp://www.rockler.com/workbench-caster-kit-4-pack bench casters but they seem a bit wimpy. They have a max load capacity of 100#s so four would be 400#s. My bench is about 350 to 400#s. I do want the wheels to be retractable.
> - theoldfart


I have those on my big split-top Roubo and they work great, even with the lower shelf full of planes and other tools.


----------



## donwilwol

we were thinking of setting up so attendees could try different kinds of hand planes at the NWA show next year, so I'm looking for examples of take down benches. I figured this is the perfect place to ask.


----------



## Boatman53

Here is a knock down bench I have for when I'm working off site in back lot of a boatyard. The cleats holding the top together interlock the legs to keep them open. It's very stable. Add a couple of planing stops, or a vise. I use it with a Zyliss Vise.





































Jim


----------



## donwilwol

Thanks Jim. I actually had those images saved from a previous post of yours. I of course had forgot about them.


----------



## ssnvet

We use these on several industrial machines at work. They work great for leveling (within limits) and infrequent machine movement and even dampen vibrations a tad…. But I would not recommend them for frequently moved machines, as you'll be down on your hands and knees cursing as you twist the little tabs on the jack screws.

If you go this route, check pricing on McMaster-Carr before getting them at Woodcraft… also, don't get the smallest size. You want 2" diameter wheels minimum.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I looked and looked for a solution to making my bench mobile that wouldn't break the bank. (I'm cheap) Finally decided to build a cam system that when operated it puts the weight on casters just enough to allow me to roll the bench around. Cheap casters mounted on some 1×4 that is hinged on one side that is mounted at each end of bench under the cross pieces between front and back legs. The "cam" is a simple piece of wood that I cut on bandsaw. I barely move the cam lever and the bench is rolling. 
Mike 


> Ok kids, here's my problem. I'm moving and the new shop will be a garage. My bench is pretty large and heavy and I want to be able to move it around. I'm looking at the Rocklerhttp://www.rockler.com/workbench-caster-kit-4-pack bench casters but they seem a bit wimpy. They have a max load capacity of 100#s so four would be 400#s. My bench is about 350 to 400#s. I do want the wheels to be retractable.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## BlasterStumps

That's a really nice bench "Boatman53". Does the top break down or remain all together? 
Mike


----------



## CaptainKlutz

My bench with fully loaded tool cabinets weighs over 600lbs. The Rockler bench casters I used worked OK until I broke lower pivot bracket on one while trying to roll loaded bench onto a trailer ramp moving my shop. 
I bought some Fulton bench casters from Peachtree for half price that look almost identical, and they behave same. Although the Fulton version has some ribs on lever arm and my foot does not slide off as easy?

Going up and down with a heavy bench is not fun. The lever arm to raise bench is too short for good leverage and I need to lift one corner while I stand on the lever. Dropping the bench off casters requires a 24" 2×4 fulcrum-ed off floor to lift the lever too. Worked much better before I added an extra 200+ lbs in loaded tool drawers.

Have same bench casters mounted on a work table made from shortened kitchen base cabinets. It weighs less than 250lbs, and casters work OK.

My biggest complaint with that style bench caster is total lift height and caster diameter. They only lift ~1". Last 3 houses where my shop was located had a 3/4-1" ledge where garage meets driveway to stop rain intrusion, and the bench casters do not lift high enough to avoid getting bench stuck going over the small ledge. Current shop as these annoying deep grooves carved in concrete to control cracking, and they swallow 2" bench casters, forcing a major effort to get bench moving. My garage shop is used for many things, I regularly roll my tools/bench between garage bays, and need more capable bench casters. I really wished someone made a larger version bench caster, something with 2.5-3" lift, and longer lever that handled heavier bench.



> Ok kids, here's my problem. I'm moving and the new shop will be a garage. My bench is pretty large and heavy and I want to be able to move it around. I'm looking at the Rocklerhttp://www.rockler.com/workbench-caster-kit-4-pack bench casters but they seem a bit wimpy. They have a max load capacity of 100#s so four would be 400#s. My bench is about 350 to 400#s. I do want the wheels to be retractable.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## theoldfart

The shop/garage floor is brand new and no seams. There will be no need to move the bench out of the garage. My biggest concern with the Rocklers was the small diameter screw holes. Is a 1/4" bolt strong enough to not shear off?


----------



## ssnvet

> Is a 1/4" bolt strong enough to not shear off?
> - theoldfart


steel is amazingly strong… according to this table, I'd say the answer is yes.










>2,000 lbs required to shear a grade 2 bolt. They'll start to pull out and then bend long before they shear.


----------



## theoldfart

Works for me, thanks Matt. Still commuting to Dartmouth?


----------



## Boatman53

Blaster, the top is made up as one unit. The 3"x3" blocks hold the two top pieces together. I have often used the top without the legs.
Jim


----------



## AlmostRetired

I only have one good bench in the shop right now. Built it with a torsion box top and HUGE, BEEFY legs and casters. Seems to do the job so far.

Roger


----------



## Sylvain

Theoldfart
"They have a max load capacity of 100#s so four would be 400#s. My bench is about 350 to 400#s."

Let us name the wheels a, b, c, d.
If the ground is not flat, the bench will rest on 3 wheels (either abc or acd). But when the bench toggle around the diagonal ac, the bench will momentarily rest on the 2 wheels a and c. 
So if your bench weights 400#, each wheel should be able to support 200#.


----------



## gargey

In a torsion box shouldn't the lap joints be alternating?



> I only have one good bench in the shop right now. Built it with a torsion box top and HUGE, BEEFY legs and casters. Seems to do the job so far.
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - AlmostRetired


----------



## Sylvain

Don W,
The Boatsman53 knock down bench is a good solution.

If you want something more fancy, the Moravian workbench is easy to assemble and knock down.
assembly in less than 1 minute.
I would think it can be transported in a car (if you travel alone).

Building it

The same with angled vise


----------



## jmartel

> In a torsion box shouldn t the lap joints be alternating?
> 
> - gargey


It really doesn't make enough of a difference to matter.


----------



## JADobson

IVe finally gotten to the point where I'm ready to install the top of my Roubo. I knew my joints were tight so I've been using a sledge hammer to persuade it into place. Softwood legs and Douglas fir top, plenty of compression. Then I got this text from my neighbour.










My shop is in my basement and he could hear me from his upstairs bedroom. Whoops. Guess I won't finish up tonight.


----------



## jmartel

Sounds like you need a bigger sledge. Or invite him over to pound away.


----------



## theoldfart

The reverse of JADobson syndrome, dis-assemble. Instead of sledges I used bottle jacks!


----------



## JADobson

I can't even think about that right now.


----------



## theoldfart

I feel your pain, assembly took a couple of sledges and lots of clamps.


----------



## BikerDad

What, you said you wanted more ground clearance? We've got ya covered!!


----------



## BikerDad

> The shop/garage floor is brand new and no seams. There will be no need to move the bench out of the garage. My biggest concern with the Rocklers was the small diameter screw holes. Is a 1/4" bolt strong enough to not shear off?
> 
> - theoldfart


Yes, plenty strong enough. I had mine attached to the bench shown in my previous post using #8/#10 screws, no problems. Heck,, IIRC to use 1/4" bolts you will need to enlarge the factory mounting holes. And I *WAS* moving mine in and out over a nasty threshold that would "high center" the bench (or at least the bottom of a leg) or try to fold the wheel under, hence the lift job above. If anybody was at risk of shearing the fastener, it would have been me. Oh, and that was with 30lbs of welding blankets and an 80lb vise attached to the bench, not shown in this pic. Plus another 40+ pounds of miscellaneous stuff and stout clamps hanging on the bench/on the shelf, also not shown.


----------



## theoldfart

Biker thanks for the info. I will post some pics when we get settled.


----------



## revrok

Ready to go Wheeling! Look out Rubicon trail! Those wheels look stout!



> What, you said you wanted more ground clearance? We ve got ya covered!!
> 
> - BikerDad


----------



## MagicalMichael

This is a winter project which I just completed. I wanted to post it under projects but all of my photos were between 5 & 6 MB (perhaps because I use a real camera, not a phone?) and the site has a 5 MB limit, so I couldn't upload any photos. Then I discovered that you can only add photos from select services and iCloud is not one of them, so I put this together.

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0xGDZLe8GoTRF7

Also I apologize for the random nature of the photos but I have not figured out how to prevent Apple from uploading them in numerical order. That said, here's the story.

This is not strictly speaking a "workbench", rather it is a multi-function outfeed table that was derived from the Benchcrafted "Classic" Plans. I made it a couple of inches wider, spread the legs, for reasons that should be obvious in the photos, added a "bridge" to my table saw, added the Woodpecker router fence & plate, but kept the leg vice, skipped the bench stop. Next I'll add a few drawers to the right hand end.

This all began when I replaced my General Table Saw with a Saw Stop. My old outfeed table, was, well, old, underbuilt, falling apart and was now also the wrong size. I wanted to use the space under the table, wanted to have a leg vice to supplement the shoulder and end vices on my main bench, and I wanted a new router table. This is what I came up with.

The entire bench, except the cherry surround, is built from 8/4 poplar and, unlike a "workbench" is finished with three coats of tung oil and a coat of good wax. The top is 70 MM (2 3/4 ") thick and the whole bench rests, or rolls, on the Woodcraft tool supports, which work great. I am really pleased with how the whole thing came out but there were a few moments when I didn't believe it could possibly come together. Here are the scary parts.

The Benchcrafted plans advise cutting the mortises into the top and then cutting the stretcher tenons to fit. If I had it to do over again I would reverse the order. With their suggestion you need to assemble all 12 mortise and tenon joints, going in three different directions, all at once. I was amazed when it worked at all. These were the biggest damm mortises I had ever cut and decided they really needed at least two cheeks, despite the plans having only one. I took a few deep breaths and a victory lap after that!

The other scary moment came in mounting the chop. Lake Erie suggest a hole of 2 9/16 which is what I drilled. The screw is 2 1/2, which only leaves 1/32 radial clearance. In a do over I would drill out 2 3/4. When you add the scissors, mine are the Hovarter's, you have even less margin for error since the holes which hold the pins which hold the scissors determine where the chop will land. I made life extra hard for myself because I don't have a drill press and since I was using someone elses wanted to drill all the holes at once. Bad idea.

I made three stupid mistakes during the build. First, when I glued up the top I managed to frame the router opening into the wrong end. I ripped it apart and did it a second time, only to loose control of the process. When I was done I realized there was no way to flatten it, so I ripped it apart again. Three times a charm. That's when I needed to add to add some lumber to get back to the width I wanted. Out of poplar, I used a piece of cherry that had been on my rack for years & years.

Third. I had studied the installation instructions for the Hovarter, Benchcrafted and Lake Erie Vices and was convinced I understood them completely. Then, after much wavering, bought the Hovarter vice hardware. At this point I proceeded to implement the instructions for the Lake Erie vice exactly as described! Thankfully, Len Hovarter was very gracious in accepting his parts back. I had to wait 8 weeks for the Lake Erie.

Thanks for reading all the way down this very long post.

Michael


----------



## bandit571

I have been using my computer to "resize" all the pictures my camera takes…..they stay in a file in the computer,,,until I need to post one. That brown button at the top? Says "img"? click on that, and then load any picture you want from your computer…no real need to have some other site store all your pictures, either….if need be, you can install a separate hard drive to the computer, to store them all in.










Then maybe find a copy of this book…..


----------



## terryR

dude, only an a$$hole would post so many megabytes of data to this forum. Haven't you noticed how all photos are reduced in quality on the site? Please post your fav image at full resolution, then download it from this site. Look at them side by side. Notice the difference in file size.

Please keep your real camera and full-size images to yourself. And learn to use an image editor to manipulate photos for the www.

Don't assume everyone has the same high speed connection that you have.


----------



## HerbC

And you are not required to use "select services" as the source for photos to upload. You can select photos from your local computer which will then be uploaded to an online site (Amazon?


> Google


?) for long term storage to be used by LJ…

Opps! Just realized Bandit571 had beat me to the punch on this point…

Herb


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I have been using my computer to "resize" all the pictures my camera takes…..they stay in a file in the computer,,,until I need to post one. That brown button at the top? Says "img"? click on that, and then load any picture you want from your computer…no real need to have some other site store all your pictures, either….if need be, you can install a separate hard drive to the computer, to store them all in.
> 
> - bandit571


Another bonus to using this method is that the pictures will still be here in the future. This site, among others, is missing a LOT of images from third-party hosters such as photobucket that later decided to block access.


----------



## TheFridge

Not to mention if photobucket wants to work on a given day.


----------



## MagicalMichael

Thanks for all the feedback / info on uploading pictures. I soon saw that the photos on my iCloud account were only 1+ MB, vs. the 5+ on my computer, but hadn't yet picked up on the format change. It's necessary so I would have guessed eventually. I take pictures with an SLR because I'm not able to consistently hold my small iphone steady enough.

I like the new outfeed table and building it has prepped me for replacing my 35+ year old scandinavian, maybe next winter.

Michael


----------



## Sylvain

When I take pictures to be posted on LJ, I change the setting of my camera and I choose the VGA resolution which is good enough for displaying on a computer screen. (only 1.66 M byte).

One might also need to rotate the picture.
Picture taken vertically may show lying down here.

Then delete the insertion. 
On your computer, open the picture with an editing software, rotate the picture to "landscape".
rotate it back to "portrait" and save a copy.
insert the copy on LJ, 
it should show correctly.

The new bench looks very good.
Now where is the "bondo" picture?


----------



## MagicalMichael

Michael


----------



## bandit571

Kind of hard to do a "bondo" pose on this bench….









ya think?


----------



## DLK

If this guy can pose on his "bench" then I think Bandit can pose on his.


----------



## theoldfart

Bench casters are working quite well, the bench moves quite easily. I installed magnets to keep the levers from dropping down while the bench is in the lower position.










And yes those are genuine wood shavings, the first after the rebuild!


----------



## crazybrit

Wow. There are some gorgeous benches here. I wish I had the space.


----------



## SkanWoods

It was suggested I should post my bench I just finished up. I hope you like it!


----------



## wormil

Appears to be a very well made bench with many nice details.


----------



## DanKrager

That is a piece of furniture for a museum, not a workbench. And would it ruin the bench to do a bondo pose?

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, be patient. I told him to "research" the threads Bondo requirements!


----------



## DanKrager

K, TOF. Exercising patience. Man! What a bench.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

drooled on my keyboard


----------



## SkanWoods

As requested the "Bondo Pose," I understand my bench is now complete.


----------



## ToddJB

Man coming out of nowhere with a bench like that and crocs. You've found a good home here, Ryan.


----------



## bondogaposis

Woohoo, the new champion!


----------



## SkanWoods

> Man coming out of nowhere with a bench like that and crocs. You ve found a good home here, Ryan.
> 
> - ToddJB


Hahaha I'm glad I joined! I don't know any woodworkers around my area so it's going to be nice to chat with other guys that share the same passion about wood… and crocs!


----------



## theoldfart

Great Bondo, you've researched well young one!

Oh, and that shop is distressingly clean and well equipped.

Edit: Now see if you can find the girl with the purple hair.


----------



## DanKrager

...or the guy that falls through his bench…

Great bondo pose! Yes, now your bench can be considered complete. OK…until you discover another accessory.

DanK


----------



## JayT

Nice bench, Ryan. As long as you can take all the ribbing you'll get for the crocs, you'll fit right in.

Now make some sawdust and get that floor dirty. The cleanliness or your space is making me feel inadequate.



> Edit: Now see if you can find the girl with the purple hair.
> 
> - theoldfart


Blue, Kevin, the hair was blue. And no, we are not talking about Mos' recreation.


----------



## theoldfart

Oh, blue! My bad, just age related perception issues. Not good when you remember the color and style of a workbench and don't remember what a pretty woman looks like.


----------



## SkanWoods

> Nice bench, Ryan. As long as you can take all the ribbing you ll get for the crocs, you ll fit right in.
> 
> Now make some sawdust and get that floor dirty. The cleanliness or your space is making me feel inadequate.
> 
> Edit: Now see if you can find the girl with the purple hair.
> 
> - theoldfart
> 
> Blue, Kevin, the hair was blue. And no, we are not talking about Mos recreation.
> 
> - JayT


I'm fine with anything anyone wants to throw at me about my crocs. They are the best shop shoes and make my feet feel like they nestled inside a bunch of puppy ears. 
I'm a little obsessive about keeping my shop clean, I made a giant vacuum head that rolls around while being connected to my dust collector and takes me about 3 minutes to clean the whole shop.


----------



## theoldfart

my shop shoes are Crocs as well, just leave 'em by the door.


----------



## SkanWoods

> Great Bondo, you ve researched well young one!
> 
> Oh, and that shop is distressingly clean and well equipped.
> 
> Edit: Now see if you can find the girl with the purple hair.
> 
> - theoldfart


Thank you! I did quite a bit of reading on here last night. It is very clean, I'm a bit obsessive about it, probably the Marine in me plays a bit part in that. I just started collecting hand tools and being the only woodworker in my entire town everyone with boxes laying in their garages somehow make there way to my shop and they just want to seem them out to use. I have got quite lucky with some awesome tools.


----------



## theoldfart

Good on ya for that. I vac my bench/work area just as a break from working, gives me time to think and plan next steps.

Wish I had folks bring me tools but can't complain. I've had great luck finding vintage stuff over the years. Folks here a great resource for learning, can't imagine learning hand tool working without them.

And thanks for your service. My dad was in the Marine Air Corp in the Pacific, back seat gunner and radioman during WWII.


----------



## HokieKen

Good Lord that's a bench! And anyone NOT rockin' Crocs in the shop might as well chop their feet off and hobble around on their ankles.

Welcome to the site Ryan. Find the Fall Tool Swap thread. I have a feeling you belong in there ;-) And if you like a good brew, find the Beer Swap that's underway!


----------



## JayT

OK, I'll forgive you for the cleanliness if you learned it in the Marine Corps. My brother's a Marine (he tells me there's no such thing as a former Marine) who had the fun opportunity of leading foot patrols as a squad sergeant in the Iraqi desert heat for a tour.

No Crocs allowed in my shop.


----------



## rad457

Bench is amazing, sort of ashamed to say I wear Birkenstocks in the shop. the slip on clog style, and have dropped a chisel on them!


----------



## BurlyBob

Ryan the more I see your bench the more I love it. Those carving s you did on the edges fo your vises are really something else.

I'm hoping to build a bench sometime in the near future. Sure hope it turns out as awesome as yours.


----------



## jmartel

Fun fact, all the little holes in the Crocs is where your dignity leaks out. (Mine are solid, so I'm good there).


----------



## DanKrager

> Fun fact, all the little holes in the Crocs is where your dignity leaks out. (Mine are solid, so I m good there).
> 
> - jmartel


LOL, Jcroc.

Hmmmmm…these were a pleasant surprise delivered to my shop! Me thinks some new accessories for my bench are on the horizon. 









And this is how I plan to implement the leg vise. I drew the design before I knew that wooden handles come with the hardware!









DanK


----------



## donwilwol

We haven't seen the girl with the blue hair in a while. The real trick is to get her on your bench. (And no, not like Most did)


----------



## KentInOttawa

My Google-foo is strong today…


> Upside to roubo….chics really dig it…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


from post #3532 posted 04-03-2013


----------



## chrisstef

Man someone shoulda told a brotha about all the croc talk. Ole stef's gettin excited. Then i saw they were camo crocs outlaid on a purpleheart bench and almost fainted.

Ryan, i know youre new, but would you do a project post so ive got future reference? Ya know, for when the house is all quiet.


----------



## wormil

Someday I might give in to the Crocs, but not today.

Also, fine looking bench with a blue haired vice.


----------



## DLK

I used to have crocs with a leather upper, sort of a compromise.


----------



## SkanWoods

> Man someone shoulda told a brotha about all the croc talk. Ole stef's gettin excited. Then i saw they were camo crocs outlaid on a purpleheart bench and almost fainted.
> 
> Ryan, i know youre new, but would you do a project post so ive got future reference? Ya know, for when the house is all quiet.
> 
> - chrisstef


Yes I do have a project post you can refer to, I'm not sure the easiest way to get to it. Maybe in my profile? Or searching "PurpleHeart and Maple Workbench" I'm probably the only one that comes up..


----------



## ToddJB

Ryan,

On the project post itself, you can copy and paste this link into another forum










and it makes a nice little previewed link this



But Stef (Chris) is a veteran around here - hand holding will on encourage his laziness.


----------



## HokieKen

How real men roll… ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Atta boy Ken, don't, listen to them soleless heathens


----------



## HokieKen

I can feel the badass bleeding out of that pic OF!


----------



## bandit571

Maybe see IF you can buy a set of Hobbit feet? Then it will look like you work barefoot in the shop.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Barefoot in the shop? Not uncommon for me. It's mostly barefoot, or flops. Just can't abide crocs, don't know why.


----------



## theoldfart

Just can't abide crocs, don't know why.

character flaw most likely!


----------



## HokieKen

I gotta admit that Crocs are the goofiest looking footwear a man could have. And I don't wear them out, just in the shop and around the house. But I swear they're like walking on puppies and unicorn farts.


----------



## ToddJB

I might consider crocs if they offer protection on the top of the foot. I have a very mixed use shop and based on looking at the top of my work boots (which hurt my back) my feet would not be safe.


----------



## HokieKen

I wear boots or sneakers when I'm working metal or turning wood on the lathe. Not so much for drop protection but because the metal slivers and wood chips combined with Crocs is pretty much a guarantee that I'm gonna get something embedded in my foot that will drive me bat crap crazy and it will be so small that I'll never find it when I try to remove it…


----------



## theoldfart

The crocs stay in the shop, that way I can't get in trouble from SWMBO for tracking saw dust/shavings into the house. Since everything is new she is, shall we say, sensitive to the issue! My shop is a single function shop, hand tools only. The one thing I'm on the lookout for is a freshly sharpened pig sticker headed towards my feet.


----------



## wormil

Crocs.com had a 40% off sale today. Probably clearing the warehouses since they are no longer making shoes.


----------



## HokieKen

What?! I gotta stock the hell up!!


----------



## woodcox

I should've just went for it. Not tea bag this many deep on a Sunday afternoon. I needed some pushing. I don't have the parts or instructions yet but I think I'm good. 








No. 7 in the left hand didn't want to start and left apprentice marks but a 12 just took off. 









This is the saw till thread right?


----------



## waho6o9

You're fearless woodcox good job!


----------



## theoldfart

WC, new tail vise OR stretching the holes?


----------



## CL810

Manly WC!!!


----------



## woodcox

Hovarter wagon vise. I never used the twin screw vise and it was just too much effort to use it between dogs.


----------



## DanKrager

I'm gonna watch you carefully, WC. I have one of those laying in a box to be installed!
DanK


----------



## chrisstef

I need to get on that ^^. Nice rippin woody.


----------



## woodcox

No pic of the apron cut I was trying to finesse. I was too busy pumpin at the end of the cut getting vertical and went out in to the rhubarb underneath. A good 3/16 over the line on the bottom for the last four inches or so.









There is only 12" of bench top to work with until a leg gets in the way. I'm gonna sweep the leg. Say that reminds me. Is Cobra Kai any good? 








The run measures 10 1/2" x 1 5/16", I think it can be up to 16" long depending on the bench's end cap thickness. I'll be happy with only 6" of dog block travel to cover the 3 3/4" hole spacing.


----------



## JayT

Looking good, woodcox.

What twin screw vise did you take off? Veritas, Lie Nielsen or something else?


----------



## ssnvet

> Say that reminds me. Is Cobra Kai any good?
> - woodcox


You'll have to check in at the dojo with Danielson & Mr. Miyagi










:^P


----------



## woodcox

JayT, a Veritas with 22" between the screws.


----------



## JayT

If you don't have plans to reuse the vise, let me know. I'm planning a new bench and am going to go with a twin screw as the front, and only, vise.


----------



## woodcox

JayT, I was just going to try selling it local. Aside from the chops and the pre lathe drill press turned batons, they aren't easy on the eyes, I'd box any of it up for you, HMU. I stole them from the bay a few years ago listed as crusty press screws, I sourced bulk chain and hardware to get them turning together. The white bits are plumbing. The original black poly? bushings were missing. I think these have been about since the 90s and originally with a plastic cover. That is the new unused aluminum cover kit with a 24" capacity chain. Idk which chain is longer. Maybe put em together have the whole bench apron on the move. You did say one and only vise. Better go big. Ha changed my own mind, I'm keeeping it. But foreal I would keep the chop thickness or weight to a good minimum. Mine was 2 3/4" maple and too heavy unscrewed a ways.


----------



## theoldfart

Since the new shop has a concrete floor I thought a floor mat was in order. The old shop had those thin puzzle edged foam mats, not really durable and a dropped chisel wood penetrate. So I opted for a stall mat. They are heavy and dragging it out of the car was a chore. Consequently I had to remove about a 1/2" off the bottom of the leg vise.


















It paid for itself already since i dropped a block plane and it just bounced!


----------



## duckmilk

Glad you got a save out of the stall mat Kev. Yes, those things are heavy but really durable.

How are you liking a shop above ground? Wait, your previous shop was downstairs wasn't it?


----------



## theoldfart

Duck, it has taken a little while to get used to that bright thing in the sky but other than that I love it. Temps are cooling off here so I've been opening the garage door. I think light is good! I do not miss the dungeon at all.


----------



## MagicalMichael

Here's a question about the Benchcrafted Leg Vice. Has anyone tried using one of them, perhaps the classic to build a Shoulder Vice? Just looking at the pictures it seems like it might be possible to mount what was designed to go into the leg onto the moving chop of the shoulder vice. Perhaps the threads would not allow this or I am missing something else.

I currently have a very old Tage Frid style bench that needs to be replaced and don't want to give up either my shoulder vice or end vice but don't see anything that matches the quality of the Benchcrafted vices, except the Rob Cosman and he wants $500. The Lake Erie would be my second choice.

Michael


----------



## woodcox

Hovarter wagon vise parts came in today. Everything looks very well made. Both shaft bearings and the mechanism housing are thick Delrin. The shaft is 1" dia and about 22" long.


















So close! That is the outer chop from the twin screw vise from before and the shaft holes are almost aligned.









Haha. One of the first steps in downloaded destructions says flip workbench over.


----------



## woodcox

Correction. The housing for the vise mechanism is all metal not delrin. This worked out and I didn't need to buy or make another end cap for the bench. The front bearing covers the patch. Maybe a beauty ring or garter could be made to hide the old screw holes too. 


























I did need to drill in to the leg a few inches to allow for the length of the shaft.









I had to assemble the vise before the end cap could be installed. There was no snaking it in after. Overall, installation and alignment was a cinch. His instructions were spot on and it works as is beautifully. Just need to flush the block and install a brass veritas pop up dog.


----------



## woodcox




----------



## JayT

Looking spiffy, woodcox.


----------



## ToddJB

Woody, awesome job! I'd love to try one out. Though it would have been cheaper and less work to just buy a baby monitor that had a battery instead of modifying the bench to hold your extension cord.


----------



## HokieKen

It would have been even cheaper than that to just not have any babies! )

I wish I would have gone with a wagon vise instead of the end vise. Might have to follow your example when shop funds rejuvenate…


----------



## CL810

Thanks for posting Woody. I feel the same as Ken, wish I had a wagon vise.


----------



## woodcox

Lol. Thanks fellas. That cord used to tie up one of my holdfasts, this feels way classier.

Now that it's done, I want to take it apart to see how it works! The handle will spin almost a full turn to only move the dog block 3/16". A quick quarter turn of the handle, solidly holds the work in. Also, there is a spring inside the mechanism that cushions itself when the block is all the way back. Presumably so it doesn't get hurt if the block is inadvertently slammed back into the shaft collar.


----------



## DanKrager

WC, those Hovarter thingys are worth every penny just in looks. Can't wait to get mine installed, but it's gonna be later than sooner.

DanK


----------



## JayT

New workbench build on the horizon.


----------



## TheFridge

WC, pimp. I made my homemade end vise all the way across. I'm so used to it now I don't think I could go back to anything but a twin screw. Ima huge fan of the wide face.

Jayt. That bench won't build itself


----------



## HokieKen

How big is that bench gonna be JayT? The top slab doesn't look very long.


----------



## JayT

I'm being the exception to the rule. Most people build a bench and then go bigger on the next one, I'm going smaller. The first bench is 6ft long because I thought I was going to need the space for furniture building. Now that my woodworking has migrated to planes and other toolmaking that doesn't take up near as much room, I want a smaller bench to allow more space in my small shop to permanently set up a couple other tools instead of having to take them on and off the bench when being used.

Plan is for the new bench to be 5ft long by about 20-22 inches wide (vs. 24 for my current one) and a couple inches taller than my current one. The slab is 63 inches long right now and I should be able to save most of it, as both ends are fairly square. If it ends up an inch or two shorter, it's no big deal. The larger checks and cracks will be butterflied-one of the necessities of a slab bench and I'm OK with that. Finished width on the slab will probably be about 17 inches, so I'll have to add a bit to get to least 20 inches. I've got a couple ideas on that front and will decide more as I work the slab.

If/when I get a bigger shop, I may build a nice 8ft aircraft carrier of a bench for furniture work and keep this one as a dedicated tool making station. We'll see. I may find that this bench is just right and the extra space is needed for metal working machines, too. Only time will tell and I'm going to enjoy the journey wherever it leads.


----------



## JayT

> Jayt. That bench won't build itself
> 
> - TheFridge


Now you tell me. I stacked the oak on my old bench in the hopes it would learn its new shape by osmosis and I could just walk out there in a couple weeks and have a brand new bench.

Crap! Now I'm going have to do actual work.


----------



## TheFridge

This is known. If it was alder it'd be a different story.


----------



## HokieKen

Sounds like a good size to me for plane making or really making anything other than full sized furniture. If it were me, that extra 3" would probably be a tool well.


----------



## theoldfart

Kinda like my aircraft carrier. Interesting thing though, the first saw I made covered most of it!


----------



## JayT

Flattening. Git-r-done!


----------



## theoldfart

The man's a machine I tell ya.


----------



## TheFridge

> The man s a machine I tell ya.
> 
> - theoldfart


A regular John Deere if you ask me. Or a Hoover.


----------



## chrisstef

Hoover for sure.


----------



## HokieKen

That's not a peek-a-boo JayT!!


----------



## JayT

Did a road trip with my lovely wife this morning. When we got home, I got back to work on the slab.

If you got a big jointing job, pull out the big jointer. Mr Heft N Hubris, aka 608, in action.










At the end of the day the slab is roughly flattened and cut to width. I'll cut the ends tomorrow.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Attaboy! Nice work!


----------



## HokieKen

Lookin' good Jay!


----------



## donwilwol

It's good to get the jounter out once in a while.


----------



## JayT

Moved the slab off the bench and stared breaking down the smaller stuff. If you consider 18 inch wide 6/4 oak to be "smaller".

Smaller board, smaller jointer. Roundy Rock 606.



















A couple of the pieces had a nasty bend at one end, so cut those off with a Disston No. 12, restored by Bob Summerfield.










Leaves a nice, clean finish, too.










Then ripped 5in pieces on the bandsaw. Rip, joint, rip joint, over and over again. There were four wide pieces, so now have ten 5in wide pices to become legs and long stretchers and one 10in wide piece of beautiful quartersawn that will hopefully become the vise chop.


----------



## theoldfart

Mr. Summerfields saws work very noicely.










The mitre box saws he's done for me leave an exceptional edge on oak, almost shiney!

Jay, you going way too fast. At this rate you'll be done by next week. Your making us look bad.


----------



## JayT

> Jay, you going way too fast. At this rate you ll be done by next week. Your making us look bad.
> 
> - theoldfart


A) No such thing as too fast B) Still a ton of work to do-I'm not as far as I wanted to be by the end of today. Taking about 6 hours for a road trip with the wife really cut into work time. It was a good trade, though. I got to spend time with my lovely bride and stopped at a winery that also had craft hard cider. Delicious! Picked up 16 bottles in various flavors.

Trying to finish by Nov 4 working mainly weekends and maybe a couple hours once in a while on an evening. We'll see if I make it. Right now I'm sore from moving that much lumber.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I finished a mobile table today. It's not real pretty but I think it will be nice to have in the shop. It's the same height as my table saw when it's feet are on the floor. I probably wont use this table as an outfeed table as I have a folding one mounted on the saw. It's a small work surface but couple it with the table saw top and I should be able to hold something fairly large should the need arise. I may add a shelf still. I used misc pieces I had in the shop for the frame and bought plywood for the inside. I moved the torsion box top to it from another mobile frame that was too low for my liking and didn't allow for storage underneath. I shamelessly copied ideas from tables I found online. I have no imagination : (


----------



## BlasterStumps

I decided to finish off my assembly table with a drawer instead of a shelf. Much better.


----------



## JayT

Bur oak bench update. Got all the stretcher and leg pieces milled up and legs are all in glueup.


----------



## waho6o9

Awesome JayT keep doing the good work!


----------



## theoldfart

Ah, I remember my oak top glue up. I lived infer of having it topple over on me. Looks like it's coming along just fine Jay.

What brand are those deep throat clamps?


----------



## JayT

> What brand are those deep throat clamps?
> 
> - theoldfart


Black ones are Bessey, off white are Shop Fox. Got a killer deal on them at a garage sale several years ago.

Worked on legs today. Took them out of clamps, hand jointed to get a straight edge and cut to width on the band saw.










The offset lengths are intentional. Several of the pieces were barely long enough for my desired leg length. Since I was planning on running through the planer after cutting on the band saw, lainating longer pieces to the shorter ones meant that any snipe would occur on the part being cut off.

Planed and cut to length.










And now back to the top. In the week since rough milling, it moved a bit and got a slight twist. Planed that out and now working on straight & flat so I can cut mortises for the legs.










The two levels in the back are my winding sticks.


----------



## JayT

Another update on the bur oak bench, think I'll just call it BOB .

Bottom of the top is flattened, all tenons are cut on legs and stretchers.



















Leg mortises are done and three stretcher mortises. Will hopefully get the rest done tomorrow and be able to assemble.


----------



## theoldfart

Bob's gonna look good Jayl


----------



## HokieKen

Bob is a good lookin' fella JayT!


----------



## JayT

Hey, Bob, you're lookin a little topsy turvy, there.










Joinery turned out mostly good, though.


----------



## HokieKen

Lookin boss Bob!


----------



## ToddJB

Finished up my sittin/sharpenin/leather workin bench.




























Old pine from our 92 year old home from our kitchen remodeled. I salvaged as much as I could. This was the last of it.

The base and under shelf were repurposed from an old Denver public school table.


----------



## JayT

Looks spiffy, Todd.


----------



## ssnvet

Nice job Todd…. looks like an old school desk was converted. Nice to see a re-purposing.

Love the machinist box as well. Did you make it?


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks dudes. I like it.

Matt, the base and shelf were repurposed from a table out of a school.

I didn't make the box. It's a gerstner. I restored it a year or so ago.


----------



## ssnvet

I'd love to have a machinist box for my precision tools….

Don't know for sure if I'd rather have and Oak box or a steel Kennedy box.

Both are nice.

Maybe some day….

:^)


----------



## ToddJB

There is a direct correlation between the amount of time spent on craigslist and the number of machinist boxes you can procure for under $25.

I spend a lot of time on craigslist.


----------



## bandit571

From a garage sale back in April….









Craftsman version….now has a spot in the shop, sitting on top of the shop's 5 drawer chest of drawers.


----------



## ToddJB

I honestly think the biggest decision that you need to work through between wood and steel is if you want the drawers to be able to be removed or not. The kennedy style is full slides, but that drawer isn't coming out without serious intention. The wood boxes intentionally are able to be easily removed. Pros and cons to both. For something like precision tools the kennedy might be better, but something like taps or something small and many having the drawers removable so you can dig through or take the drawer to the machine is nice.

Just get both


----------



## JayT

Todd, you want to stalk Craigslist for me? I don't see those kinds of deals pop up around here.

Of course, my area has like 1/20 the population of yours, so I'll probably have to be 20 times more persistent.


----------



## JayT

Bob's going formal on me. All dressed up for his white tie affair. White oak tie, that is.










And trying to set a new personal record for clamps per square inch on the vise chop glue up.


----------



## bandit571

This is a RARE sight in the Dungeon Shop…









Cleaned up, flattened, and shellac-ed..

Doesn't stay this way very long…..


----------



## jmartel

I'm surprised you shellac-ed it, Bandit. Don't most people use an oil finish on a bench so it is a bit grippier?

I desperately need a workbench. I'm working without one right now, so it's been all power tools. Once I finish with the house and build a bed, I'll probably work on a bench.


----------



## bandit571

I did try BLO on the bench…once….took way too long to cure….stunk the place up. Top is actually quite "grippy"...must be all them holes.


----------



## theoldfart

JayT, I'll see your clamp bet and raise you a… a…. a….. a bunch!










Then, you turn it into swiss cheese to make room for a criss cross


----------



## JayT

Hey, Kevin, I said it might be a new personal record. I'm obviously still far behind the LJ record. If you would like to send me a few of those Jorgy parallel clamps, I'll try to do better.


----------



## theoldfart

"Pry them from my cold dead hands" I think is how the saying goes.


----------



## MagicalMichael

I have a question for people working with a Scandinavian style bench with a shoulder vice. I built this bench 35+ years ago as a beginner woodworker; it has a lot of miles on it and is due for replacement, but probably not this winter. The chop in the shoulder vice slides to the right as I tighten it down. There are no obvious defects in the screw or anchor. At first I thought that it was caused by slippage in the shoulder or end cap, which shouldn't be too surprising considering the age but I see that the slippage begins before there is any pressure on the vice.

Michael


----------



## DLK

Is the screw orthogonal to the bench? Does it move out of square even a little as it is turned?


----------



## rad457

Okay Prof. enough with the Big words! Some of us get intimidated by dem.


----------



## DLK

Gee and I thought people in Alberta were educated .


----------



## MagicalMichael

Good question, which had not occurred to me, and I would not have thought possible, not to mention having to dig pretty deep to remember the last time I had bumped into the word orthogonal. I'll have to try and use it again today.

I opened the vice all the way and watched the joint between the screw and the horse shoe shaped anchor. The chop moved from the right edge to the left edge then stayed there until the chop hit the bench and then it slid some more. I put a small square against the back of the chop and there was about 1 - 1 1/2 mm gap along the thread at the 150 mm mark. I also noticed that the screw and anchor move back into position as I wind the screw out. Then I put a framing square on the elbow and it, surprisingly is off by only a mm over 16".

The screw and anchor are a new veritas replacement for the original German screw which wore away the left edge of the anchor. At this point I wonder if the nut, which is inset to the bench arm needs to be shimmed on one side, or deepened just a tiny bit on the other. Any more thoughts are welcome before I dive into a pool of rocks?

Michael


----------



## DanKrager

"Orthogonal Pants Bob" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

I've bought a 10' x 24" clear red oak log and ordered it cut to 8/4 QS and RS planks from a local saw mill at an outrageous price of $0.60 BF. Yield is estimated at 100 BF, so log and cutting will come to about $60. After a bit it will be used to make a leg vise and a wagon vise accessories for my adjustable height workbench.

I've found a very efficient way to get high yields of QS and RS boards from a log. I have made a scale to overlay the ruler on the band mill to make it convenient for the sawyer. He doesn't even have to square it up, just make the pith parallel to the bed. I usually leave the live edges for me to cut off if desired and have them plank the whole thing this way, and only a few of the top and bottom boards are truly planked. Very fast and easy for the sawyer and I get the best yield.

I have laid out the scale for them in two parts, one for under 12" logs and one for over 12" logs. The larger log can always get a 2" QS plank either side of the pith, but on the smaller logs I center the 2" plank on the pith and plan to cut it out. From the center 2" planks I'll go to 6/4 on either side, then 4/4 where the grain will not yield RS boards. Or whatever the project needs. 









DanK


----------



## DLK

> At this point I wonder if the nut, which is inset to the bench arm needs to be shimmed on one side, or deepened just a tiny bit on the other. Any more thoughts are welcome before I dive into a pool of rocks?
> 
> Michael
> 
> - MagicalMichael


This sounds possible. I might first try shimming with some washers as it would be reversible. Did the nut come with the Veritas or is it the old German nut? I wonder if there is some play in the nut.


----------



## MagicalMichael

The nut came with the screw, and there is some play in it. The nut however was installed into the hole and mortise originally cut for the German screw.

Michael (Westford, Vt)


----------



## DLK

> The nut came with the screw, and there is some play in it. The nut however was installed into the hole and mortise originally cut for the German screw.
> 
> Michael (Westford, Vt)
> 
> - MagicalMichael


Aha maybe the old hole puts the new nut a little out of square. I'd try some shimming. A little trig could tell you precisely how much I suppose. But I think trial and error would be more enjoyable.


----------



## Sylvain

Magical Michael,
The end of the screw and/or the shoehorse piece might be marred.
Maybe some gentle filing/polishing + some grease to eliminate the problem.


----------



## MagicalMichael

Problem solved. I fussed around with the horizontal line of the screw for quite awhile without affecting any improvement. Then I decided to build a new new chop. I cut this one from 2" poplar, while the old one was 1" maple. I squared the chop, anchor and screw very carefully, marked one hole, took it apart, drilled and installed one screw, squared the anchor and put in the second screw. It all seemed to work fine until I attempted to wind the screw all the way out and found that it was out of line vertically. I cut back the top of the long tenon which fixed the vertical problem and most of the tendency of the anchor to slide out. Then I put a screw along the inside edge of the anchor, which prevents the bench screw from moving beyond that edge. Not elegant but it gave me a rare opportunity to use the fancy right angle attachment on my Fesstool driver/drill.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Michael, snowy Vermont.


----------



## JayT

OK, Bob, time for a trip to the barber. You say you want a flattop? Coming right up.


----------



## AlaskaGuy

Maybe a little off topic

I found this photo on the internet. It has to be the heaviest built bench I have ran across yet. Not the best picture but if you enlarge you get a pretty good idea of the timber sizes used.


----------



## jmartel

Good thing they tapered the legs to make it look more dainty.


----------



## DanKrager

I wonder if the tapers fit into sockets on the floor to further enhance the stability….

WOW. That would ruin the springs and shock absorbers on my shop floor!

DanK


----------



## JayT

I don't know, AG. Heaviest might be a toss up between that one and this recent LJ project



The one you posted definitely has heftier legs.

Of course, there's also this beast










or maybe the 16' 1100lb behemoth from the French Oak Roubo project


----------



## JayT

double post


----------



## HokieKen

Bob's looking mighty good JayT! He about wrapped up?


----------



## ssnvet

> - JayT


If ever a bench needed a sliding deadman, it's this one.


----------



## JayT

> Bob s looking mighty good JayT! He about wrapped up?
> 
> - HokieKen


Working on vise install. Since I'm not doing the vise as the writers of the instructions intended, it's a bit of hit, miss and hope. Heavy on the hope right now, as I glued up last night. The process worked in my head. We'll see if it worked in reality the next time I'm in the shop. If not, I'll owe the swear jar a large sum and get to start over (the vise, not the whole bench).

If the vise works properly, then it'll be on the downhill slide. Trimming legs to final length, applying finish and drilling dog holes.

Missed my self appointed Nov 4 deadline. I knew things were going to get crazy after that date, so wanted to be done by then. Now there is very little shop time, so who knows how long it will take to complete.


----------



## HokieKen

I know what you mean. I bought my house using the shop swear jar ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Jay, instructions? What's different about your approach? Inquiring minds(yes I do have one of those after all these years) need to know.


----------



## JayT

The Veritas twin screw instructions are for installation on the end of a bench with a rear jaw that attaches as an end cap. I'm installing as a face vise and want the rear to be the front edge of the bench, so it doesn't stick out as far, so the instructions for a rear jaw aren't valid. That has necessitated some creative problem solving.


----------



## theoldfart

Oh, you got this. Some process pics when convenient?


----------



## JayT

Well, I didn't take any pics while doing the install. I could have used three more hands as it was. If everything worked out, I'll get some pics of the installed vise and the pieces needed to make it work.


----------



## bandit571

> - JayT
> 
> If ever a bench needed a sliding deadman, it s this one.
> 
> - Mainiac Matt


"Yo, ho, ho..and a Bottle of Rum"?


----------



## JayT

I think it worked. Didn't attach the chain, yet, but both screws spun when clamps were removed.

Here's what it looks like right now. (Yes, Bob is standing on his head again.)










Process to fit the back pieces was to clamp the front jaw to the leg in the proper place, then mark and cut the blocks to length. The hard part is that front and back have to be drilled at the same time. Used carpet tape to secure the pieces together and drilled out the 1-1/2 holes on the drill press. Installed the rear nuts and assembled with the front jaw and screws. With it all tight, the front plates on the screws were marked and attached.

In order to glue the blocks, I loosened the screws a bit, put some waxed paper between and tightened them back up. That allowed me to glue the blocks down without worrying about squeezeout gluing the jaw to the frame.

Hope all that makes sense. In the pic, you can see the glued in blocks. The front jaw is sitting behind. 
I'm not going to tear it apart and do it again just for pics, sorry Kevin.


----------



## woodcox

Nice work J. I remember those holes being a lot of careful work also.


----------



## theoldfart

Jay, that hurts!  Looks pretty good to me. Drilling the holes for my leg vise was a stressful time


----------



## HokieKen

Nice work JayT. I'm more than a little jealous of that twin screw vise.


----------



## JayT

Bob, you're too tall. No 12 to the rescue.


----------



## HokieKen

Dangit Jay! That's not my leg!!!

-Bob


----------



## JayT

Happy Thanksgiving, Bob. (and the rest of you, too) You need a vice? Well, I don't recommend smoking, drinking or gambling. What? Oh, you need a vise!

Well, let's plane chamfers on the front chop to get rid of some sharp corners.










Then we can do the final install.










Finish line is so close, I can almost taste it. Well, maybe that's finish, Danish oil flavor.


----------



## woodcox

Nice chop,J. I like the rays you put there.


----------



## JayT

Thanks, wc. I saved that QS piece specifically for the chop because of the rays. Once the bench is complete, I'll take some better pics that really show them off.


----------



## HokieKen

Bob had a great Thanksgiving!


----------



## JayT

Hey everybody, meet Bob. Feel free to say hi. Kinda like Frankenstein, you've seen pieces of him, but here he is all put together. Come to think of it, like Frankenstein, he's got a flat top and is kind of broad. Hmm, have you ever seen Bob and Frankenstein in the same room? Makes you think.


----------



## DanKrager

My workbench lumber is sawed and waiting to be picked up, but my truck is in the hospital. I think it ate the timing chain, but they haven't broken it down to see for sure yet.

Looks real good, JT. Are those two antennae things the electrodes? :J

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

I finally decided to put a tool rack on the back of the bench. I was loosing too much real estate while working because of the clutter.


----------



## jmartel

Good idea, Kevin.


----------



## Mosquito

I like it Kev


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks, I may install spacers to keep the files and saws from banging into each other. I found the tools in the rack were almost always in use so that was my selection criteria.

Edit: Dan, now that you've figured out the timing chain problem whens the bench build start?


----------



## DanKrager

"...timing chain problem…." HA! Rub it in…

I have to decide if I'm going to build modules for the Hovarter vises or completely replace the existing top with a more conventional approach. Do you think this $87 worth of 2" quarter and rift sawn firsts (no seconds, i.e. perfectly clear) red oak will be enough?










DanK


----------



## theoldfart

He he, I just had to say it!

Solid slab top or slice it up and laminate? The Hovaters deserve the best so have at it. Looking forward to your designs. I was impressed with the bench I saw before so this ought to be good.


----------



## DanKrager

Slicing and laminating won't do much good except to remove the pith and wane. QS as it lays, the only thing to do is buy some quality glue joints and nail them on the edges. But first it has to be air dried for at least two years. But first it has to get off the truck and after three boards loading I was done for the day. Had help!

Thank you for the compliment. That original bench inspired by connected saw horses was designed specifically not to be a place to put tools and hold any piece of a 4×8 sheet cut and I hate to give that up because I'm still not disciplined enough to keep from covering my work area with tools that won't be used again right away. But you're right…Hovarter deserves the best and I've never had a "traditional" bench. They are both beautiful and practical in their own way. 
You're a subtle enabler, you know that? 

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Who, 'lil ole me?


----------



## TheFridge

Hovarter. Learn something new every day. That twin screw quick release sounds so friggin awesome. I have a trailer load of 8/4 rift and (supposed to be) quartersawn red oak. I hate red oak but I love free more than I hate anything  need to decide on a vise eventually.


----------



## MagicalMichael

Bench height? I just spent the afternoon chopping out dovetails in a 24" wide cherry carcass which left my back feeling quite stiff. Most bench recommendations seem to fall in the 33 - 35" range and I built mine, many , many years ago, so that it would be the same height as my table saw, 34". But I wonder about the wisdom of this today. I suspect that this standard emerged when men were shorter (I'm 6' 1"), and when wooden planes sat much higher than metal ones. HNT Gordon, the Aussi, plane & vice maker advocates a different approach. He looks at the height of your elbow, minus the amount you would bend your arm while planing, minus the width of your fist, minus the height of your plane, minus the thickness of the board you are planing, typically about 1". That, he suggests, is the optimal height for a workbench. Using that formula I would build a bench in the 38 - 39" range. It sounds reasonable but it is very different from any other piece of "expert" advice I have come across.


----------



## bandit571

Maybe go with the height of your belt buckle?

Vise for my bench has been rehabbed









With 2×4 Ash jaws…tossed out the 4 yr old Pine jaws.


----------



## JayT

I'm with you, Michael. My first bench was about 35", the recently completed one is 38" and is much more comfortable to use. I would also have an aching back working too long on the shorter bench. Paul Sellers recommends 38" and he is the only one I knew of saying that before you mentioned Gordon.


----------



## DLK

I think comfortable bench height depends on the activity. Mine is great for planing but too low for dove tailing.


----------



## Sylvain

Michael
The 38" recommended by Paul Sellers is for somebody about 5'10".
This is what I found .

Make it high, you can shorten the legs afterwards or use a "duck board" (P. S. dixit :"Ten 6' strips of 1″ x 2 1/2" screwed to three or four battens with a 1" gap" )

I am 1.75 m and made my workbench 0.96 m high.


----------



## psoper

While not my main bench, this joinery bench is quickly becoming my favorite.
Here are a few process and complete photos


----------



## avsmusic1

beautiful little bench Phil


----------



## HokieKen

Agreed, that's a great joinery bench Phil! I love the leg vise chop. The hardware ain't too shabby either ;-) Unusual choice for a joinery bench though, usually see twin screw vises on those animals. Care to share your reasoning for that selection?


----------



## AlaskaGuy

A joinery bench similar to that has been on my bucket list for some time now. Mine would have a moxon vice on it. Yes indeed that a fine bench you made Phil


----------



## AlaskaGuy




----------



## psoper

My main bench has a moron vice builtin to the back side - it works ok for joinery but I find it slow. With the Benchcrafted leg vice a simple spin opens and closes the vice extremely fast. If you have many parts to work on a speedy vice really helps

When I built this Pennsylvania spice box I really appreciated the leg vice


----------



## theoldfart

"find it slow" maybe because it's a moron vise?

Good looking bench, it's on my to-do list as well.


----------



## AlaskaGuy

Since my woodworking is more for fun that anything else these day I guess I not too concerned with how fast my vice works. I many try adding a couple up grade as outlined in this video. Anyway nice work Phil


----------



## psoper

> "find it slow" maybe because it's a moron vise?
> 
> Good looking bench, it's on my to-do list as well.
> 
> - theoldfart


Got to love spell check and the lack of proof reading


----------



## Mosquito

I think it honestly depends on the size of parts you're looking to use too. I have a bench top moxon vise, and if I'm trying to hold short boards that don't reach all the way through the vise jaws (4-1/2") I end up having to stick a scrap in the bottom to prevent racking of the vise jaws. The leg vise would elleviate that problem. However, if you're frequently doing longer boards, I find that more obnoxious in my leg vise.

I agree that the leg vise is faster than the moxon, when it comes to quick paring to clean stuff up, I tend to go to my leg vise instead of the moxon for that reason.

Now you've got me thinking about a joinery bench again, as I was recently cutting a bunch of dovetails lol I thought I would do a moxon, but now you have me intriqued with the leg vise …


----------



## ssnvet

This is an amazing piece!


----------



## BlasterStumps

I used some dumbbell weight bar with the big star nuts for my bench-top bench moxon style vise. Fairly fast operating. On the other end of the little bench, I have a cheapo face vise.


----------



## BurlyBob

Phil that is a truly stunning piece. You should be very proud of it and your skill. Well done, very well done!


----------



## MSquared

I'm in awe. Kudos all! Such masterful work. Wannabe here. Just an observer. Hopefully, absorb-er.


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## YouthfullMind

Finished phase 1 of my workbench project. Made of white oak, Yost vise screw and end vise, gramercy holdfasts, split top, drop down casters, and finished with natural danish oil. 72" long x 36" high x 24" wide. Draw bored with 2.5" deep mortises, and the top was a through tenon with walnut wedges. Total cost was less than $400 including all of the hardware.























I just finished milling the wood for cabinets underneath. I'm going to use the cabinets as an opportunity to teach myself how to dovetail.


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## Hopdevil

Finally finished my first (and probably last) workbench! Whew, long process. The design is based on the FWW Ultimate Shaker Workbench. The top is soft maple with walnut trim. The base is cherry and walnut. The drawers are maple with walnut fronts. 
It has 2 vices, a quick release tail vise and a twin screw, both are Veritas. 
It is very very heavy. It ain't going nowhere. Now… Back to work (as soon as my elbow heals from surgery.)





































And a couple of critics keeping an eye on me while I work.


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## theoldfart

Couple of nice looking benches. I think the standards here are rising, glad my slapdash bench has been done a while. To much competition.

Well done boys!


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## AlaskaGuy

Them moose will do about anything to keep an eye out.


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## ssnvet

Great looking benches guys. I tip my hat to you both


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## HokieKen

Nice benches Youthfull and Hopdevil!


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## MagicalMichael

Very nice bench and handsome drawers. I have a question about the drawers and how they will work with the deadman and holdfast. I have been planning a new bench build for the past 18months (next winter?) and my rccent post about bench height has helped me decide on height (1000 mm) which suddenly opened up a lot of drawer space . I'm planning on a split top with a sliding deadman and wonder what holdfast you are using with yours that don't bump into the drawer fronts. I also see that you have positioned round holes in front of the drawers, which feels like it might be crowded. My current bench has sq. dogs. Do you drill the round holes all the way through and if not, don't they tend to get clogged.
Michael


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## Hopdevil

Hi Michael, Thanks for the kind comments. Yes they are drilled all the way through. The only downside to that so far is that things fall into the drawer on the left where the holes are located behind the vise. A couple of shorter benchdogs is on my wish list, but so far I have been able to work around any issues. There is no issue with any of the other holes as they are at the front of the bench and the front is 6 inches deep. The holdfast is by Veritas and I bought the shorter leg so it does not impact the drawers either. Let me know if you need further information. I am away from home, but can get specific when I get back.


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## woodcox

What kind of joint for a parallel guide on a leg vise chop? The bottom of the guide is layed out to be flush with bottom of the chop. I see bridles that are pinned a couple times that will work. I think I've also see a pinned bridle with no shoulders also used. Would a haunched m&t be comparable there too? The chop is only 11" tall and very cute. Parallel guide is 2"x1".


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## HokieKen

I just used a pinned M&T for mine WC but it wasn't all the way at the bottom of the chop. I really don't think there's a bad choice among those you listed for a leg vise. The forces on it are always putting it in tension and always acting directly (no lateral loads to speak of). So really as long as it doesn't fall out or break through, you're good ;-)


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## Notw

> While not my main bench, this joinery bench is quickly becoming my favorite.
> Here are a few process and complete photos
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> - Phil Soper


As with all your projects, awesome design and beautiful craftmanship.


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## OleGrump

This might not be the correct place to post this question, but I'm tinkering with a contraption which I plan to be about half saw bench, half chairmaker's low bench. (making the drawknifing stop block removable ala Roy's "Rustic Workbench" Episode) Do any of y'all have any input on what features you would or would not incorporate? I'd like to hear it.
One thing I DID do was bore a pair a holes in one side of the bench, something I saw in a drawing of a low Roman bench. Found this to be good for holding longer narrow stock on end, held in place with a wedge. So far, it is possible to bore and cut tenons on stock held this way. I'll experiment with some other possible uses.


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## DLK

Showing some pictures of what you have so far, would help.


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## Cricket

This thread is getting REALLY long. I need someone to start a part 2 and post the link here so that I can close this thread.


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## theoldfart

Cricket, NewageNeanderthal hasn't posted since 2013.

I'd be willing to host the next one if you can't get a hold of him.


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## Cricket

> Cricket, NewageNeanderthal hasn t posted since 2013.
> 
> I d be willing to host the next one if you can t get a hold of him.
> 
> - theoldfart


I was busy starting a new one before seeing your response.

I went ahead and started it here.
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/302785


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## Cricket

The new thread should work much faster.
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/302785


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