# Handplanes Of Your Dreams, v2.0 - Sharp As Ever



## Bertha

Link to HOYD v1.0 - the dull years

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/26023

In before Wayne and Don!


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## WayneC

Whoo hoo. I'm first. lol


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## donwilwol

Damn it Wayne


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## WayneC

> Damn it Wayne
> 
> - Don W


lol


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## Bertha

In before Wayne.


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## Bertha

Crap!


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## donwilwol

I'll start with a Sargent#59 scraper. Rare as hens teeth


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## theoldfart

I get the feeling Wayne has had his finger on the button for a while.


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## Bertha

Favorite plane picture flood begin now…1928


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## WayneC

Some block planes…


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## bhog

Gotta post at least once on here.

Yo Al, what's the biggest one you ever had in your mouth?


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## Cricket

Thank you for getting the new thread started.


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## ColonelTravis

Ode to the #8










Some people aren't 8 fans. I understand that. Or they prefer a 7. Don't understand that. The difference between them isn't that great and if I'm gonna have mass, I want the most mass available. But hey - you like a 7 more? Wonderful. Enjoy your 7.

I've owned two 8's. Sold the first one, and restored another one that was used for the first time today after replacement blade and chip breaker arrived. You get that thing going down a 34 inch table-leg-in-the-rough and zoom! It doesn't stop. Knots, wavy grain - nothin. Mows it all down. Love it.


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## duckmilk

A magical Bhog appearance. The stars must be aligned!

I have a #7 Col.T, but have never even tried a #8. I would though if the chance ever came up.


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## donwilwol

A Al and bhog reunion. It's like….. dejuv


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## chrisstef

I swear ive been here before.

12 1/2. Original toothed iron.


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## bandit571

Feeling "Groovy"..









Making dados..









Not much else today…


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## TheFridge

Obligatory


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## Mosquito

In the spirit of re-starting, this is the one that started me…




























Haven't used it in a while now, but I've still got it


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## TheFridge

Mos. Need some Siegley pics… set complete yet?


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## Mosquito

Waiting on one more… Still chasing the right #3, and many still need cleaning, but I could grab a picture of the set as it stands


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## theoldfart

Wayne's a spoiler , it was a nice comeback though!


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## TheFridge

I have a bud that's gathering up a set as we speak. It's kinda sparked my interest since he speaks highly of them. Please do.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I got nothin' but a Hello, New Epic Thread!


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## Mosquito

Cellphone pictures for now, will try to get the good camera pointed at them tomorrow/over the weekend.

They are, left to right, 8, 7, 6, 6 (this was the first 6 I got, and the wrong type), 5-1/2, 5, 4-1/2, 4.

All of them are of the type where the patent date was still cast into the lever cap thumb screw, except the 2nd #6, which is the newer thumb screw with out patent date. All of these were made after Stanley bought Siegley


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## CFrye

My smallest metal plane and my largest wooden (complete) and most beautiful plane.


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## Bertha

Hog, I can't think of the biggest but once I put a tote and six knobs in my mouth.
I know your record is 10 knobs, but I did these all at once, not one after the other like you.


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## Pimzedd

My 48 Type 1 in as found condition got me started.


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## donwilwol

Here are some Siegley Hahn lever caps explained

http://www.timetestedtools.net/2017/08/25/siegley-hahn-bench-plane-lever-caps/


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## bandit571

A Users' Group…..#3 to #8









The "Littles" 









The "Bigs" 









"Mutt & Jeff"


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## putty

Here is a mouthful for ya


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## ColonelTravis

> Here is a mouthful for ya
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James Bond: Do you expect me to talk? 
Auric Goldfinger: No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to flatten the top right corner of that cherry board!


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## chrisstef

Thats the one Al polished isnt it?


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## bandit571

Just a little plane..









Millers Falls 56B….


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## lysdexic

I wonder if he has noticed that I lifted it from his shop.


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## JustplaneJeff

This is a Union X23, haven't seen this lever adjust set up before.









A wood rabbit plane? It has a sargent VBM blade. Home made I'm guessing.









#55 type one, Pretty good shape, no blades though. Think I have an extra set in the stash.







A #605, 2 #603s, a #3, and a # 4 1/2 Bench planes. More pictures to come later, Still very happy I bought the whole collection Kinda blew the tool budget for the rest of the year though lol


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## dbray45

Didn't make anywhere near the beginning - darn!


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## WayneC

Some bedrocks. Need to photograph all of them.


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## donwilwol

Nice Bedrocks Wayne!!

I'll raise you a #410


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## WayneC

Pretty plane. I need to find a shaw's patent and play with it some.


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## ShaneA

You like those metal handles Wayne? I may have one floating around. I prefer the look of the Rosewood, but the metal prolly a bit more durable.


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## WayneC

They are okay. They were designed for schools. I actually have ones with Rosewood as well.


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## donwilwol

You need matching knobs!


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## WayneC

Short of making them, I don't think I've seen them for sale anywhere.


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## donwilwol

You just need a friend who's a machinist


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## TheFridge

I like a da shine


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## Bertha

for anyone who collects Fultons

https://www.etsy.com/listing/514694264/fulton-bench-woodworking-carpenter-plane?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=woodwork&ref=sr_gallery_1


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## Just_Iain

> for anyone who collects Fultons
> 
> https://www.etsy.com/listing/514694264/fulton-bench-woodworking-carpenter-plane?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=woodwork&ref=sr_gallery_1
> 
> - Bertha


Thanks Bertha!


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## bandit571

Let's see…..low knob, small adjuster wheel, Frog adjust bolt. Two patent dates..









Replacement tote. Iron is stamped 137…..1st quarter of 1937, clipped corner box logo..









Price tag said $8.00….I think I can handle that…..might need a little clean up…


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## Bertha

^I'd buy em all at that price.

Got a 607 refurb today. It's a Frankenplane but that's fine. I bought it pretty jacked up "as is".

Most everything is there but I'll have to peen the lateral adjuster and the lever cap spring. If you know me, you know my peening history.










I've paid my dues shaping Stanley totes. I let the internet make them now.










Full length iron all pitted up. The chipbreaker is a disaster. I'd already sharpened it about a month ago and left the iron and breaker screwed together. The cutting edge was a jagged mess when I pulled it out (rust?). I just gave it a quick touch up and it's ugly.



















The sole is warped but I got it good around the mouth and touchdowns where I need them.



















You all know how to tune a plane, so I'll skip that. I peened everything and turned to the totes. The rear tote is roughed out hickory. I shaped it to 320 and stained it twice. The first with ebony; the second with rosewood. It won't fool any of y'all but it feels good and seats tight.




























Gave everything a beeswax emulsion and it's good to go.










I've been working on chisels lately.

Christef has always had this fascination with vintage thread spools. I always see them around the antique stores.










I think I get it now. You can cut off the bottom part and make a chisel handle out of it. That's what you do with them, right Christef?


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## Tim457

Tote came out solid. Tell me more about what needed peening. And I'm not familiar with these thread spools like you guys are.


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## Bertha

I'll defer to Christef on the thread spools. They are wooden tubes you can pick up at antique stores. They used to hold string, yarn, who knows.

Re peen: The lateral adjuster has a little hole where a small post on the frog goes. I had to hammer down on this post to flatten the head out and retain the lever. I had to do the same thing with that springy leaf on the back of the lever cap. Maybe peen is the wrong term, but anytime a ball peen hammer is used, I call it peening out of ignorance. I've also seen peen spelled differently. I think it's like rebate instead of rabbet. I grew up on the Modern Cabinetry book and they used rebate, so it stuck.


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## terryR

Well, I thought this miter plane was the most phallic thing I'd seen in weeks, but I guess Al wins the prize. LOL.



















A bit over 10" long, the iron is 1 3/8" wide and bedded at 20 degrees. I chose Honduras Rosewood for the infill.


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## theoldfart

Damn, just drooled all over my phone.


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## bandit571

Rehab on that $8 No.4..









Iron was sharpened. The bolt holding it to the chipbreaker was too thick…..thinned that done. Iron had a nice big curve along it's length….Peened it flat. 









Frog had almost a pound of sawdusty crud packed in and under it. Lateral lever is a tad loose, and merely has STANLEY stamped into it, reading up the lever..









Underside of lever cap…kind of plain..









Two patent dates and a frog adjust bolt…wheel is the small diameter one, left-hand threads..









Sole was flat, needed cleaned up, is all..









Low knob has a slice of sap wood. Bailey across in front of it, No. 4 behind it..









Vs some Black Walnut….









Seems to have a slight camber…..

Tab would not engage the the slot on the chipbreaker….had to thin the bolt a bit, then things settled right into place. I may keep the friction tape "Grip", might come in handy with sweaty hands…
Not too bad..for $8?


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## Tim457

Makes sense on the peening. You mentioned it right next to mentioning tuning, so I wondered if I was missing some next level tuning techniques.

Terry your work continues to impress me. The shaping on the wedge and cap at the mouth end are a nice touch.


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## chrisstef

Ive been conjuring up a come back all morning. Ive come up with nothing aside from "false advertising". I love yarn spools. Al loves docking.

Im seriously rust deficient. So much so that i bought a no name #4 for parts to a plane i dont even have.


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## TheFridge

I think stef puts suction cups on the end of those spools. He told me once they make great backscratchers in the shower.

4-1/2 refurb for a bud



















Made in England Stanley block. No size. 9-1/2 maybe? For same bud.



















I'm done refurbing for awhile. Now I gotta sell these off and start on some saws.


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## donwilwol

> Well, I thought this miter plane was the most phallic thing I d seen in weeks, but I guess Al wins the prize. LOL.
> 
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> A bit over 10" long, the iron is 1 3/8" wide and bedded at 20 degrees. I chose Honduras Rosewood for the infill.
> 
> - terryR


Who can remember when Terry would tell us about his lack of talent? Now it's just Wow!


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## TheFridge

Yeah no lie


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## chrisstef

Truth Don.


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## TheTurtleCarpenter

Terry, I'm now Plane Drunk and wobblin, Beautiful job !


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## JayT

Hear, hear Don. Those days were not that long ago. Terry's been sandbagging us.

Beautiful miter plane.


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## Bertha

That miter plane is insanely gorgeous. Is it for sale?
That plane came out great, Bandit.
Fridge, I love 4 1/2s. I seem to forget I have one. Same story with the 6. Not sure why. And is that what Christef is doing in the bathroom? That's a long time to scratch your back. He must be watching backscratching videos on that laptop he always brings in there.


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## terryR

Thanks a ton, guys. I'm still learning.

Sorry, Al, not for sale. But I have plenty more steel, bronze, cocobolo, etc…


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## bandit571

Had a stack of Cherry scraps..









Getting them ready to re-saw….decided the Stanley No.4 , T-9 could have a go on the faces…









Not too hateful? Shavings?









Not too bad…..I was even running the plane towards this bad spot..









Made a nice mess on the bench..









Maybe tomorrow, I can hone the iron a bit better? I only went up to 600 Medium India stone….


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## Bertha

Thanks, Terry. I knew it wasn't ;-)


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## DanKrager

Bad spot, Bandit? That'll buff right out with a little colored wax! What plans for this?

I use the Komelon tape measures too. They seem to be inexpensive yet good quality and durable, but what I like most is that they pull out and stay without locking. Push the button to release.

DanK


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## bandit571

Maybe a box build? Resaw the boards to 1/2", maybe 3/8" thickness. Wanted to see what Amber Shellac will do to these….....


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## bobasaurus

Good lord, Terry. That is a beautiful plane.

I restored this #18 today. Removed the cam adjuster thing since it was keeping the mouth from closing tightly, I'm using a washer instead. Seems to work fine, I'll have to lap the back of the blade at some point… ruler tricking for now. I need to tweak the adjustable mouth piece to be parallel to the cutting edge, too.


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## TheFridge

Bertha, I don't have a useable 4 so the 4-1/2 is the go to for my smoothing if a 2 won't cover it.

I went straight from 5-1/2 to 7 so I don't have that problem with the 6  though I used to have a 6 and didn't use it that often.


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## WayneC

Some little router planes to start the day.


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## bandit571

One of the planes I passed on over the weekend…..besides a Great Neck #3 ( yuck) was a KK8…...complete….and had a thick coat of ClearCoat all over it…..thought the $110 price tag was a bit too high….
Teaser shot, from last year's show









Still has the 2 no. 6 planes as well…

ClearCoat has a habit of hiding flaws…like cracks. I tend to avoid things with too much coatings sprayed on.

IF anyone wants, I know where that big plane lives…...


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## Bertha

I agree, Bandit. That's a bit too much for a KK. Luckily for me, KK's have never been something I collect. On the amber shellac, I bought some "buttonlac" off the internet. It comes in, you guessed it, buttons. You dissolve them in alcohol to your liking. The amber gives a totally different look than the bullseye, zissner, etc. You might want to check some out.


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## Mosquito

Depends on what it is. If it's a KK8 definitely not worth $110 to me either. If it's a K8, still not worth $110 to me, but is to others (because the word has seemed to have gotten out about them being early bedrock castings). It's annoying lol

I believe the KK8 I picked up was about $55 ($35+$20 shipping)


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## Bertha

^that's more what I was thinking. $40-50 off the shelf (or pickup bed). You could tune it and use it only to flatten your benchtop. Like a dedicated flattener. Put some heavy ass totes on it. If I saw a pristine one, I'd do 40.


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## bandit571

When I already have a Type8 or so No.8? 









And a type 10 No. 6c? Didn't feel the need to buy more….


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## Bertha

^better plane. I've got several 6's, only one of which is fixed up, Hock, etc. I really like it but I simply forget that I have it. Mine's cambered just a tad.


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## Just_Iain

No pictures ((again)tomorrow I promise) but I took off the week to putter around with restoring some of the toys. Today was the Stanley #78, #192 and #92 blades. All were in various states of degradation including rust and sharpened or ground out of true. Sandpaper (and water) and the two waterstones (400 and 5000) being used in the LV Stone Pond. I have a hand powered grinder in the mail. Somewhere. But not here of course.

The #78 looks ready to test other than checking the nicker. I cleaned it months ago of rust but didn't have the time to sharpen it. I'll pickup some wood tomorrow to clamp in the Workmate. I really need to get the wood and start the bench. It's deciding on plans for something that has to fit in the front entrance to the apartment. The LV Hammacher-Schlemmer reproduction is in the running. Also does anyone know of a source for UHMW tape? I want to try it on the fence to take care of the rocking.

The #192 needs to dipped to get rid of the rust and cleaned and stabilized. Looking at it closely, I can see that the front and back sections are about 1/32" to 1/16" out of alignment and the AH Hah moment. It's been repaired with something that has a brass colour and repainted. Considering I got it for $15 plus shipping, it isn't that bad. I need to try the #78 depth guide to see if it fits. Also the nicker needs to be checked and some UHMW tape on the front section might help.

The #92 needs the nose piece screw freed up so that I can adjust the mouth. The planes seen a lot of use to get the wear and scratching it has. I have a brand new can of super lubricant and wouldn't you no it; no pressure in the can so back to LV. ARGH. It's otherwise ready to test tomorrow.

3 down, 15 planes to go that I'm aware of. I'm not counting the plow plane blades or the wooden plane blades. A set of Stanley #45 blades and a set for the Record 045C are too much to contemplate at the moment.

More updates as the week progresses.

One final note. After finding the bars for the Record dowel jig I bought many years ago and no longer have, I tested it out and yes as my fellow LJ's pointed out, they fit my Record 045C Plough plane beautify. As I was packing up, what should appear but the missing 045C bars. They've only been missing for 20 years. Do I blame the wee folk like they do in Ireland?


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## WayneC

I would keep them intact. You can easily find tool steel for longer rods. I'm currently using my dowel rods to hold my record 405 H&Rs. Speaking of which, I got a 405 in the mail today.


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## TheFridge

Peachtree for uhmw tape. Or maybe amazon.


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## Just_Iain

Fridge,

Have you got a link for Peachtree? They're new to me and I try to avoid enriching Amazon if it isn't necessary.

Many Thanks,
Iain


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## Just_Iain

Wayne,

I'll follow your advice on that.

Iain


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## TheFridge

I'll see. But I think it's from peachtree through amazon for the same price.

https://www.ptreeusa.com/tablesaw_uhmw.html

Thought the size selection was better. Available many other places on the internets.


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## bandit571

A "little'' something for Al:








Just a shoulder plane.









That I have been using, lately









How wide?









Seems to do a decent enough job…


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## Bertha

Very nice, Bandit. I'm about to head into a molding plane refurb streak, myself. I ordered some sharpening implements for the task. I watched a video of someone who actually knew how to use a molding plane correctly. It made me feel very deficient. I use them, but it's always with some effort. This dude looked like he was really having fun.


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## Just_Iain

> I ll see. But I think it s from peachtree through amazon for the same price.
> 
> https://www.ptreeusa.com/tablesaw_uhmw.html
> 
> Thought the size selection was better. Available many other places on the internets.
> 
> - TheFridge


Thanks Fridge. I just ordered from Peachtree as I would rather my neighbours had a job by supporting small and medium industries and businesses. Plus you can add the fact that up here in Canada, Amazon is actually more expensive for shopping if you care to look around.

Iain


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## Bertha

I'm in an Amazon boycott. It really makes purchasing crap difficult, which should raise anyone's monopoly hackles. I'm also years into my Starbuck's boycott but that's a different story.

I ordered some UHMW plastic from peachtree. I buy quite a bit from them if they don't have it at Woodcraft. I know, I know. But it's amazing. We don't have a Woodcraft. However, when I order from them online, my package will literally arrive the next day. One time, I ordered early in the morning and it came same day. I'm not kidding. McMaster Carr is my go to for everything stock.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-plastic-sheets/=199ld29

I order a lot from them and they literally have everything. Price is right and they ship like, same hour. A lot of the metal I order there ends up being from Starrett. I figure that can't be a bad thing.


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## Bertha

And Bandit, I have the American Wooden Planes book if you need anything looked up. Sounds stupid given the internet but the offer's there. I never gave much thought to Auburn until reading that book. I've since pulled out a few of them and they are quality planes. There are better but there definitely are much worse.


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## bandit571

That plane was a garage sale "find"..for $1o…..It will now cut see-through shavings with ease. Like it better that a Stanley #90 I had…sold the 90…


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## Just_Iain

Here's my grinder for sharpening but it might be a bit small for the larger planes. The whole thing fit into a 6" square box.

Ended up running around for 'stuff' so no plane work today.


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## Bertha

Iian, I absolutely love manual grinders. I've bought many just to find that right one. Yours is very nice. I don't necessary USE them, but rather admire them, knowing they COULD be used. The one I set up had an oddly soft, almost spongy, domed wheel. I figured there was no use flattening it but I did anyway. It produces a strangely fine grind and shoots our an inordinate amount of sparks. Mine isn't geared, so the handle goes spinning with the wheel. I find it very awkward to use, but very cool. My plan is to rig up a strop to it and use it benchside for quick touch ups. I cannibalized an old Tormek wheel but I'm not sure how I'm going to do it yet.

Regarding grinders, I had always been unhappy with mine, from Black and Decker to Baldor. Once I made my own, everything changed. No safety features whatsoever. Just exposed belts rambling and a coarse wheel spinning at unchecked speeds. Diamond dress it until the tool flies out of your hand.

When's sawstop going to make a grinder? Grinder users seems like a perfect segment to prey upon. I guess the wheel would have to be conductive. Better make it diamonds and gold by the dozen.

<activate>
I grinded a knuckle in shop class once. It scarred me for life. I can't believe they allowed those awful finger eating machines in schools back then. The other day, my ass was telling me that they even paddled students back then!


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## bandit571

Planes?









Just a few users…..


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## Just_Iain

Progress today:
The Stanley #192 is having a bath in EvapoRust.

The stuck Stanley #92s Nose piece screw has been hit with penetrant so that the screw can join the #192.

The broken tote for my Record #5C has been epoxied. The plane needs to go into the EvapoRust but I don't have anything that's long and narrow enough. I might try getting my hands on a couple of feet of gutter and some end caps.

And I'm running out of space on the kitchen stove top to do this. Ain't living in an apartment fun!


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## Bertha

Off topic, but has anyone tried a fluted iron in their scrub plane? They seem pretty interesting but I almost never use a scrub these days. If fact, I cant recall the last time I've had mine out. And I only own one!


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## TheFridge

Lain, use some scrap ply and pin a box just big enough together and put some visqueen or plastic in there. I always cover it up because that stuff seems to evaporate fast.

I used my scrub recently installed on a chunk of laminated maple from a shuffle board table. Had to get that thick finish off.

I barely use mine (I love it when I do) as it is so I couldn't justify spending more on it.


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## Bertha

They're really not that expensive at LV. I seem to recall less than $50. I think it would be nice if you wanted to introduce a rough finish on a show side, but it's all probably in my mind. I would probably use it once, put it away, and misplace my original blade.


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## Tim457

My manual grinder is the main grinder I use unless something really needs a lot of metal taken off. It is a bit tricky, but you get used to it. I really need to replace the rest with something a bit better though.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> I really need to replace the rest with something a bit better though.
> 
> - Tim


Amen to that, me too!


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## Mosquito

I've got a slow speed bench grinder, but I hate it. It's dusty and makes a horrible mess. I've used my manual grinder way more than that thing as a result, and save it situations like Tim mentioned, heavy removal.

I've also got a Craftsman wet grinder that I intend to use with a treadle base once I dig that out again.


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## Just_Iain

Okay everyone it's "iain" (Scottish Gaelic spelling) and pronounced the same as Ian or the Irish Gaelic Eoin. They are all the same! With a sigh and a laugh.

Back to the 5C. Off with the tote and knob, blades and frog. Blade and frog are mellowing in the Evaporust container. Anyway, I gave up for now and took a rubber sanding block (fine grit) that LV sells for rust removal to the 5C and that with a brass brush cleaned up the rust on the bottom and frog contact points for now. I've then found a overly large plastic pan to wash it down with a toothbrush and the brass brush again. It'll still need the bottom lapped but the japanning is actually very good with just one blotch of white paint. The front screw on the tote is not right but not too wrong. Just a little long and if I can find some brass washers the right size then that'l be fixed as well. And the epoxy did a nice job on the tote that was broken. If time is on my side, I picked up valve grinding paste to use on the body/frog contact points.

Started on an old Stanley #3. Rusty, loose and cracked knob and filthy. Off with the wood and into the Evaporust it went. Tomorrow, I'll pull it out and pull off the frog to see the damage. If needed, back into the Evaporust and then I hit it with the valve grinding paste as well.

The grinder has a bent guide and tomorrow I'll pull it off and straighten it out. With luck, the LV grinding guide I bought my Dad 30 years ago (and he never used) will fit and I can do a better job of grinding.

The delivery guy missed me today and my somewhat battered ECE wooden body plane I got for $20 is still not in hand. The plan for this is to emulate the ECE Dovetail plane by planing down the base to 10° and grinding down the blade to match. I'll add a knicker and depth guide and fence in time.

Tata for now!


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## terryR

And another 5" long low angle infill. 20 degree bedding. Cocobolo for the infill.



















for sale.


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## WayneC

You knocked it out of the park.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow. Just. Wow.
.
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Oh, and a bit a drool.


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## donwilwol

You're working some magic stuff there Terry


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## Bertha

I'm not really sure what to say. It's phenomenal. Shoot me what you're looking for it. Don't be offended if I don't respond right away. I've got years of absence worth of messages to wade through.

Like the Fridge, I bet it has a pretty mouth.


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## TheTurtleCarpenter

Double "SweeT"


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## Just_Iain

Gorgeous!


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## ColonelTravis

Terry, I'm as amazed as everyone else. Just wonderful work.


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## bandit571

Stanley No. 4, Type 9…









Trimming a panel to width..









Works for me…..


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## Bertha

quite nice


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## DLK

Stanley No. 4 Type 20. A friend gave me this plane for his cost of $2. I cleaned it up, spending most of time getting the sole flat enough, and the the blade sharp. (There was a chip to grind out, it was beveled skew and at the wrong angle. The back also needed a lot of flattening.)










There seems to be a lot of disparaging comments about the Type 20s, and I wonder why. This one seems to work great.










Poplar shavings

Nice little smoother. I was thinking to sell it, but it works so well I may just keep it.


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## Tim457

My type 20 #5 also works very well, maybe the production quality was variable.


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## DLK

The only quality changes I can see are. Non-rosewood tote and knob, coarse (I think) threads on the knob and tote bolt. And of course Blue (paint?) instead of black japanning. Perhaps they did not mill the sole as flat as they could
hence the work I did.

Is the blue japanned? I don't think that's possible, but what do I know.


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## KentInOttawa

> There seems to be a lot of disparaging comments about the Type 20s, and I wonder why.
> - Combo Prof


Hyperkitten says:
-All of the features of the previous, except:
-All castings are now painted blue, instead of the black japanning used for over 100 years.
-Hardwood totes and knobs are now finished with a light colored stain.
-The forked lever (the one that engages the hole in the lever cap) is now a cheesy two-piece pressed steel piece of junk.
-The lateral adjustment lever is no longer a two-piece construction, but now is one piece with the thumb grip bent over.
-"STANLEY" is no longer stamped into the lateral adjustment lever.
-The begining of the end for Stanley bench planes, as we prepare for the Dawning of the Age of Norm, and Ellie Mae Clampett's yummy bisquits.

I suspect that Hyperkitten's well-known comments and the constant changes to cut costs (one-piece lateral adjusters, etc.) have lead to perpetuating this view. What we don't hear about is that the newer ones seem to have fewer broken totes…

A tuned plane is a wonderful thing. Enjoy yours.


----------



## Bertha

A plane in that condition (good) of that age (fairly recent) shouldn't need the sole lapped flat. I think that's the major complaint regarding the T20s. I watch those shows where top notch drummers hammer out complicated time signatures on Little Kitty or Pokemon drum sets. They get it done. I think of a later type like that, if you've got the skills to tune it, it should work as good as any of them. It's just that the old ones feel more "substantial" and usually stay true. It's all very subjective. The kidney bean lever cap, the stamped lever cap, the blue, the black, it all grates on my eyeballs, so I don't use them. Doesn't mean they're bad, it's mostly in the eye. My take.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Don K, Looks like you know how to set up a hand plane for sure. That one is quite nice indeed. Congrats.

I have found that usually it is not the hyped tools that I end up using and prefer. It is sometimes a no-name'r that has rust covering the whole of the tool but it works good for me. I picked up an old Dunlap plane here a while back size 4 I think. I took some time with it and now it is one of my favourites. I could list several old tools that I would rather use over some of the more talked about tools of the same type.

Good work on the plane.
Mike


----------



## BlasterStumps

Hey Bandit, Looking good there on that chest or cabinet that you have been working on. You do nice work. 
Mike


----------



## DLK

Thanks for all the comments. *Kent*: I did look at hyperkitten, mostly to be sure I got the type right. *Bertha*: Perhaps it is the sole lapping that is the complaint. There seemed to be a hollow the length of the sole. I have it flat now from the front on past the mouth by a inch or so. *Mike* a sharp well tuned plane is indeed a great joy. I have some experience doing so.

I think I have 3 or 4 other size 4s, I had around 10 at one time, but traded 6 to Don W. I also have a half dozen press metal frog size 4 planes that I have unintentionally collected. Someday I will clean them all up and post them side by size and see how they compare. I should sell some of them off. Damn now I am curious to what I have and will just have to spend some time in the shop investigating.


----------



## bandit571

Planes…..









They do indeed do nice work…









Making a raised panel for a lid..









Ala Paul Sellers….using No. 4 Stanleys…


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have this Union X4 that I am pondering what to do with it. It needs cleaned up and the tote glued back together. But as you can see, no blade, chip breaker, or lever cap. I don't think it would be too hard to improvise on all three of those items. I'd probably have to guess at the length of the lever cap. I made one out of hardwood once before for a plane that made into a roughing plane.

Do some of you plane gurus think it would be worth the effort to fix it up? I looked at the sole and the mouth. It just need a little surface rust removed and given a good clean. 
Mike


----------



## Bertha

It would be a fun challenge. I'm sure you could frankenplane it with spare parts. I've got a few Union combos but I don't know a lot about them. I'm sure somebody here will share what you need to know. Good luck!


----------



## Bertha

While I'm typing,

what shoulder plane are you currently using?

I mean, USING, not planning to use. I'm considering some purchases. Can you still get the LN infill shoulder? It showed up on a flyer once and now I can't find it. It was pretty cheap.


----------



## Mosquito

I use my Record 073. It's what the Lie Nielsen came from. It works


----------



## bandit571

Stanley No. 45, type 20 with the SW logo


----------



## KentInOttawa

The Global Shipping Program at eBay flagged this as a "RESTRICTED ITEM" and seized the entire package. The seller got to keep his sale and I got a complete refund. But just try to get through the obtuse maze that eBay calls customer service so that you know what in it is a restricted item or to try and get the rest back. Good luck!

Unfortunately, that means that one more Stanley 60 1/2, and probably a Sargent 306 and another Stanley 9 1/2 will never see service again. Sad, really. But I'm not really broken up about the Handyman H1204.

Posted as a public service announcement to anyone thinking of cross-border sales, buying or selling, through eBay. Please don't risk destroying anything truly valuable.


----------



## Mosquito

> Stanley No. 45, type 20 with the SW logo
> 
> - bandit571


Definitely not a shoulder plane, though.



> The Global Shipping Program at eBay flagged this as a "RESTRICTED ITEM" and seized the entire package. The seller got to keep his sale and I got a complete refund. But just try to get through the obtuse maze that eBay calls customer service so that you know what in it is a restricted item or to try and get the rest back. Good luck!
> 
> - Kent


Kent, They probably think the wood on the handyman plane is rosewood, and that's why. You could try arguing that they didn't use rosewood and it's instead just some generic hardwood in that era, but good luck on that, like you mentioned about their customer service…


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Kent, They probably think the wood on the… handyman? plane is rosewood, and that s why. You could try arguing that they didn t use rosewood and it s instead just some generic hardwood in that era, but good luck on that, like you mentioned about their customer service…
> 
> - Mosquito


I concur, and I tried arguing that. But customer service doesn't have access to the Global Shipping Program (Pitney Bowes?) info. Nor do the people answering the phones understand the rules or the problem. *It is legal for a Canadian to sell rosewood to a Canadian, or for an an American to sell it to an American, but no-one is allowed to sell it internationally under the CITES agreements. This means that any plane with rosewood is not a restricted item under eBay rules, but that none of these planes can be legally shipped internationally by the Global Shipping Program.*

Trying to get the lowest-common denominator (customer service) to understand that the Global Shipping Program made a mistake in applying these rules is an exercise in frustration. Customer service refers you back to the seller (who has just sold his product to the Global Shipping Program for a price that should have awarded it to the buyer). Arghhh!!!! Customer service gets so hung up on trying to understand the rules that they never ever get around to trying to UNSCREW the buyer.

Notwithstanding all of the speculation above, eBay can't even say why the item was restricted in the first place because eBay doesn't have that information from their contractor (Pitney Bowes/Global Shipping Program). It sound like some poor business decisions have been made and now they have affected me.


----------



## KentInOttawa

And just for those who don't know, Stanley Handyman planes were the cheap line; they never had any rosewood. Here's a pic of the one in this lot that we suspect was flagged as rosewood:









Anyone that would flag this as rosewood would probably also classify MDF and Formica as species of wood. Scary!


----------



## BlasterStumps

wonder if it would go thru if you told the seller to take the wood off and pitch it and then just send the rest of the tools. (metal)
I realize it is too late on this shipment.


----------



## bandit571

What I am using as a shoulder plane:

Auburn Tool Co. Auburn NY USA 1.25"


----------



## donwilwol

> Unfortunately, that means that one more Stanley 60 1/2, and probably a Sargent 306 and another Stanley 9 1/2 will never see service again. Sad, really.
> 
> - Kent


Not true. These items are starting to show up on eBay again. Keep an eye out, you'll be able to buy it back eventually.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Bertha, I use a Stanley 10 for some cleanup and I have modified a couple junker block planes to make them work similar. One cuts left the other right. They are small and come in handy at times. I also have a couple bull nose but don't really care for them much.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Hey DonW, would you have any parts and pieces for a Union transitional plane with the thumb screw lever cap in a size equal to the x 4? I'd like to find a lever cap and chip breaker for the x4. I have a blade that will do in a pinch.

Mike


----------



## donwilwol

> Hey DonW, would you have any parts and pieces for a Union transitional plane with the thumb screw lever cap in a size equal to the x 4? I d like to find a lever cap and chip breaker for the x4. I have a blade that will do in a pinch.
> 
> Mike
> 
> - BlasterStumps


I do not. Sorry.


----------



## bandit571

May have some work to do on this little plane..









Stanley No. 8…..needs the sole worked on..









Remember, this IS a jointer….but









Shavings have to be quite thin, to get through there…

Low knob…









Might be an older No.8…..


----------



## Tim457

> And just for those who don t know, Stanley Handyman planes were the cheap line; they never had any rosewood. Here s a pic of the one in this lot that we suspect was flagged as rosewood:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone that would flag this as rosewood would probably also classify MDF and Formica as species of wood. Scary!
> 
> - Kent


No way to see that one coming because it's not rosewood, but if you had a crystal ball you could have just told the seller to keep the handyman and send you the rest. Sucks. I agree some bad business decisions have been made. Pitney Bowes seems like a scam through and through.


----------



## Bertha

^I've had the same restrictions 3 times, twice on shoulder planes, oddly enough. They actually were rosewood and the seller said the problem wasn't uncommon (then why'd you sell it to me, nutlick?). I was more worried about getting my money back. PayPal made that pretty smooth.

Thanks Bandit and blaster for the shoulder plane response. There's a tasty Preston on Ebay right now. I should have bought one a decade ago when I had the chance(s).


----------



## TheFridge

Well damn. I guess the idea of buying some British infills on eBay U.K. Is out the window.


----------



## Mosquito

Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't this issue only be for those who use the eBay global shipping option? If I sold something and shipped it straight through USPS rather than going through eBay's global shipping program, wouldn't that bypass Pitney Bowes?


----------



## WayneC

It would.


----------



## WayneC

> I have this Union X4 that I am pondering what to do with it. It needs cleaned up and the tote glued back together. But as you can see, no blade, chip breaker, or lever cap. I don t think it would be too hard to improvise on all three of those items. I d probably have to guess at the length of the lever cap. I made one out of hardwood once before for a plane that made into a roughing plane.
> 
> Do some of you plane gurus think it would be worth the effort to fix it up? I looked at the sole and the mouth. It just need a little surface rust removed and given a good clean.
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BlasterStumps


I have one if you need photos or measurements.


----------



## WayneC

Amazon sucks… lol

I ordered a Veritas medium router plane and now I have to wait a week for it. I'm used to the one or two days shipping amazon provides. Expectations.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn t this issue only be for those who use the eBay global shipping option? If I sold something and shipped it straight through USPS rather than going through eBay s global shipping program, wouldn t that bypass Pitney Bowes?
> 
> - Mosquito


The problem here, for me, is the failed customer service. I have an issue. If the customer service rep can't fix (or understand) the dispute, then they should escalate the case to someone who can. Instead, eBay's "system" is preventing me from presenting my case and coming to a resolution.

I do NOT know that this was red-flagged because of the CITES regulations. Based on what I know to be in that order and what eBay lists as restricted items, the misapplication of these regulations does seem to be the most likely cause. But if I can't get through the stone wall, I'll never know why the order was confiscated.

*If* I might or might not receive any items that I win, even though I am *legally allowed to buy and import them*, why would I continue to spend my time and effort shopping there (global shipping program)? Just check the plane listings for yourself and see how many contain wooden parts that could be confiscated by the global shipping program.

Caveat emptor.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Hi Wayne, 
Wow, yes, I would appreciate seeing the lever cap. I've seen one picture but it was a bit obscured in the pic. I know how wide it is but don't know how long it is overall. I found a transitional plane that has some pieces that might work but a lot of money just for a chip breaker and a lever cap that I know is wrong for the plane. : (
I wouldn't mind seeing a picture of your complete plane as well. I sort of like the X series after spending some time working on this one. I cleaned it up a little. Japanning is mostly there. Too bad the rest of the parts are not there.
Thanks
Mike


----------



## WayneC

I'll try to get some photo's this afternoon.


----------



## Bertha

Kent, it's maddening. Guns are only the thing I'm motivated to fight for these days so I did what I do best, gave up. I tried to reason with them and got something like an airplane screen play.

"but this plane didn't have rosewood" 
"yes, it's the rosewood that's restricted" 
"but its only the rosewood that is restricted" 
"correct, restricted" 
"but surely you don't restrict items that aren't restricted" 
"we do, and don't call me Shirley"

It's a typical pass the buck thing on Ebay's part. You defer your customer service to a 3rd party and wash your hands of it all. I order a lot of stuff from the UK and it's only happened a handful of times. I've had stuff shipped from Japan that declares "rosewood…" and it zips right through. It must depend upon who's working that day.

And Wayne, I've been on an Amazon boycott for years. I'm willing to pay more to support a local business and one day, I almost ordered paper towels on Amazon when making a larger order. I'm not a politician, so the hypocrisy was too much for me to bear. I still order from large retailers but they're not amazon. Until the novelty of having a drone drop a handplane in my yard becomes a reality, it'll stay that way for me.

And Starbucks is banned, too.


----------



## ChipSawdust

Oh wait, sold it two years ago. 
Maybe this one?










No? OK this one then!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Of those three choices, Chip, I'd say the first is likely to have rosewood in it and, therefore, is banned from eBay's global shipping program.


----------



## WayneC

The second one could have rosewood saw dust embedded in it. Better ban it too…

#3 is a joy.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

If #2's owner has sufficient rosewood stock to plane in his lunchbox DeWalt, he sucks…

Bless his Heart.


----------



## Mosquito

^ LOL


----------



## WayneC

Pine, rosewood, they are all same are they not?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

When attached to the venerable Handyman H1204, you are correct: They are one in the same.


----------



## Bertha

I heard that powerplaners are restricted from planing rosewood.


----------



## Bertha

I haven't posted a pic in a while, so here's one of some rotted chair gizmo that I copied for a friend (no rosewo).

And this black thing all the kids are crazy about these days, a mobular phone, I think they call it.


----------



## Mosquito

Doesn't look very mobile to me Al, looks like it's still a plug-in model!


----------



## Bertha

Lol Mos. That isn't it but I got the new fancy Samsung whatever and I might as well leave it plugged in. the battery sucks. Toothing plane.


----------



## chrisstef

Frilled Shark ^. Lives in the deep ocean. Rarely seen and usually only when dead. Has 5 rows of teeth that look like golf cleats. Grows to 3' in length and weight 25-40 pounds. Aside from the wobbegong shark, its my sons favorite.

Ive read the Shark book every night for the last month and counting.

Stef (and mini-stef) know sharks.


----------



## Bertha

I found it in one of those "radioactive creatures pulled out of Russian waters" baitsites. Your son has good taste. It's a nasty looking beast that in my mind was 30 feet long. I tried to depict him on my Wayne Flat Frog tool.

What does your kid know about giant squid? Kraken?


----------



## Bertha

I took these furniture picture at an insane asylum in WV. No, not the Capitol, an honest to God insane asylum.
Aside from the feces throwing and visual hallucinations, they had pretty nice stuff.


----------



## bandit571

Put an older plane to work today…









Jointing some curly maple…









About the same size as a No. 7…..


----------



## donwilwol

If i haven't said this before, I need a Sargent #10 or at least some good photos and permission to publish them. If you have one, or know someone who does, please let me know.


----------



## Bertha

Wow. I thought I'd make quick work of this by finding one on Ebay, flipping it, and changing the background. What the hell? Are you sure they exist?


----------



## theoldfart

Did anyone see this?

Some one scored big time!


----------



## donwilwol

Wow, I was watching that but never got the normal "almost over" alerts!!


----------



## donwilwol

> Wow. I thought I d make quick work of this by finding one on Ebay, flipping it, and changing the background. What the hell? Are you sure they exist?
> 
> - Bertha


They are listed in every catalog throughout the shaw patent history, yet I can't even find anyone who owns one.


----------



## Mosquito

Dan Kev, I'll say.

I almost had something similar (though not that extent) with an aluminum #45. Buy it Now at $320 but the guy canceled it on me and relisted for $999 saying "sorry but I have to do a little more research for the value of this tool". Shouldn't you have done that BEFORE you listed it? Damn it.


----------



## WayneC

I got a $110 shipped BIN 602 earlier this year.


----------



## WayneC

> Wow. I thought I d make quick work of this by finding one on Ebay, flipping it, and changing the background. What the hell? Are you sure they exist?
> 
> - Bertha
> 
> They are listed in every catalog throughout the shaw patent history, yet I can t even find anyone who owns one.
> 
> - Don W


Have you googled for photographs of on. Perhaps you can locate someone who has one that way and get permission for photos.


----------



## WayneC

> Hi Wayne,
> Wow, yes, I would appreciate seeing the lever cap. I ve seen one picture but it was a bit obscured in the pic. I know how wide it is but don t know how long it is overall. I found a transitional plane that has some pieces that might work but a lot of money just for a chip breaker and a lever cap that I know is wrong for the plane. : (
> I wouldn t mind seeing a picture of your complete plane as well. I sort of like the X series after spending some time working on this one. I cleaned it up a little. Japanning is mostly there. Too bad the rest of the parts are not there.
> Thanks
> Mike
> 
> - BlasterStumps


----------



## donwilwol

> Wow. I thought I d make quick work of this by finding one on Ebay, flipping it, and changing the background. What the hell? Are you sure they exist?
> 
> - Bertha
> 
> They are listed in every catalog throughout the shaw patent history, yet I can t even find anyone who owns one.
> 
> - Don W
> 
> Have you googled for photographs of on. Perhaps you can locate someone who has one that way and get permission for photos.
> 
> - WayneC


I have Google so many times that I actually went and pulled all the catalogs to make sure Heckel didn't screw up.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Aside from the feces throwing and visual hallucinations, they had pretty nice stuff.
> - Bertha


That made me laugh.



> Did anyone see this?
> 
> Some one scored big time!
> 
> - theoldfart


That made me angry-cry.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thank you WayneC very much. Nice pictures. Now all I can hope is that a transitional Stanley or Union will be close enough to work. I might stumble on to one of those in the right width but I doubt that I would be so lucky as to run on to a Union X4 or X5 any time soon. Thanks again for the nice work on the pictures and sharing the info with me. 
Mike


----------



## donwilwol

> Thank you WayneC very much. Nice pictures. Now all I can hope is that a transitional Stanley or Union will be close enough to work. I might stumble on to one of those in the right width but I doubt that I would be so lucky as to run on to a Union X4 or X5 any time soon. Thanks again for the nice work on the pictures and sharing the info with me.
> Mike
> 
> - BlasterStumps


a transitional Stanley or Union cap has the frog bolt like a regular Bailey bench plane. It definitely will not work without major modification to the point it would probably be easier to start with a blank piece of steel or brass.

I'd make sure Eric at NH Plane parts is looking for you to.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Don W. I will see if I can contact NH plane parts. Sure worth a try.
Mike


----------



## donwilwol

> Thanks Don W. I will see if I can contact NH plane parts. Sure worth a try.
> Mike
> 
> - BlasterStumps


They also have a new web site, https://thevintagetoolshoppe.com/


----------



## DLK

This article is about making an infilled dovetailed shoulder plane. Terry have you seen it?


----------



## Bertha

^miter for under $100. wow. At least the shipping was expensive.


----------



## terryR

DonK, Thanks. You need/want an infilled shoulder plane?  They are sexy beasts, and one day I'll have a go.

Al, I know a place where you can get an infilled miter plane for 1/2 that price.

http://www.onlinemetals.com/

some cutting and assembly required.


----------



## DLK

> DonK, Thanks. You need/want an infilled shoulder plane?  They are sexy beasts, and one day I ll have a go.
> 
> Al, I know a place where you can get an infilled miter plane for 1/2 that price.
> 
> http://www.onlinemetals.com/
> 
> some cutting and assembly required.
> 
> 
> 
> - terryR


I have transitional plane parts to make JayTs version and some day I will do that. Would be better if the two metal plates were dovetailed to which you are the expert.


----------



## terryR

Don, thanks, but I've made SIX DT'd planes. no expert here. Anyone on this forum could do it, too. You just need fresh hacksaw blades and a small hammer.


----------



## DLK

> Don, thanks, but I ve made SIX DT d planes. no expert here. Anyone on this forum could do it, too. You just need fresh hacksaw blades and a small hammer.
> 
> - terryR


Thats SIX more then I have made. 

Well someday next year I will get to it. Now it's all about moving to the new place while getting the old ready for selling. If I get some shop time this winter I think I will devote it to restoring molding planes.


----------



## Mosquito

> This article is about making an infilled dovetailed shoulder plane. Terry have you seen it?
> 
> - Combo Prof


That is the article I used to make mine. You don't remember me sharing it? That's because it didn't go well lol Given what I've seen Terry do already, he'd be just fine at it. It was the metal dovetails that gave me a hard time


----------



## TheFridge

Would a miter box equipped with a hacksaw and stops work?


----------



## DLK

Question is everyone seeing random advertising links in the posts? Or have I Offended the posting gods?


----------



## TheFridge

Just you.


----------



## DLK

Odd now those advertising links have disappeared. Very strange.


----------



## WayneC

> Question is everyone seeing random advertising links in the posts? Or have I Offended the posting gods?
> 
> - Combo Prof


Did your tin foil hat slip to the left a bit?


----------



## WayneC

I removed a bunch of stuff from my tool chest this morning. You can see the bench planes again.










Also took some pictures of my acknowledged collection of small router planes. (In the past I have always maintained I'm not a collector)










My user routers. Someone mentioned free shipping at Lee Valley so I have a Medium Veritas on it's way to join these three.


----------



## terryR

> Would a miter box equipped with a hacksaw and stops work?
> 
> - TheFridge


nope. you'll have to buy.


----------



## bandit571

Ever use a plane so much, you had to lay it aside to cool off? Raising a Maple panel today..









Made a mess on the floor, too..









Just to get one panel done. Used two Stanley No. 4 planes….had to switch back and forth.


----------



## DLK

O.K. its weird. If go into LJ via clicking on a link in the e-mails items like small hammer in post 181 are in blue and underlined and click to brownells a firearm company. But if I go to LJ directly it is all fine.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> This article is about making an infilled dovetailed shoulder plane. Terry have you seen it?
> 
> - Combo Prof


This is great, thanks.


----------



## Bertha

If you're making a Brownells order, I need a few things, lol.

See, Wayne's got the little tools! I'm not the only one with a fascination.

Looking good, Bandit! You didn't have any thick stock for your panel? lol

I posted a little box I made this weekend but that will bore you, so I post the tool pics from it. All that's important any ways.


----------



## LJRay

> Question is everyone seeing random advertising links in the posts? Or have I Offended the posting gods?
> 
> - Combo Prof


I had them for a while but not at the moment.


----------



## Just_Iain

> I removed a bunch of stuff from my tool chest this morning. You can see the bench planes again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also took some pictures of my acknowledged collection of small router planes. (In the past I have always maintained I m not a collector)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My user routers. Someone mentioned free shipping at Lee Valley so I have a Medium Veritas on it s way to join these three.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - WayneC


Wayne, what would your router plane collection look like if you got serious about it? /sarcasm


----------



## bandit571

Paul Sellers favourite planes…









Type 20? and a Type 9. Block plane is a 60-1/2….


----------



## Bertha

That's a really good side by side. It reminds me what I like about the earlier/don't like about the newer. I've had a long affair with the 60-1/2. I bought about 5 of them trying to put one together that worked right. For a little plane, there's a lot that can go wrong with them. After it was done, I found a pristine one for less than I probably spent on postage getting the other ones. A perfectly tuned one is indeed a joy.


----------



## bandit571

The 60-1/2 is filling in for the Millers Falls 56B….which needs sharpened up. The T-20 is almost an inch longer than the T-9.


----------



## terryR

Nice tools, Al.


----------



## TheFridge

Affair would be the proper word for me as well. I hated not being able to skew mine. I gave it to a buddy and got the LN. That thing is a rock.


----------



## TheFridge

Wayne, I found your router plane soulmate.

http://otools1.wkfinetools.com/planes/z_contRead/routers%C2%ADSronceF/routers1.asp

I want this. Bad.

http://contrib2.wkfinetools.com/priceJ/articl/ornateRouter/ornateRouter-01.asp


----------



## WayneC

That ornate router is really cool. I would love to find one. The first article was inspiration.

I have a couple of Stanley 140s. I would love to have the LN Skews and the Sargent Style Rabbet Block.


----------



## DLK

For the ornate one. It looks as if it was cannibalized from a piece of (victorian) furniture or from a church organ?
Probably not but maybe. I may have to keep my eye open for some interesting filagree.


----------



## WayneC

That's a good idea Don. I would imagine they are hard to come by already as a router plane.

I have the Veritas Medium Router Plane that is supposed to currently be out for delivery. I've been wanting one for a while. They take most of the cutters the large takes and have a footprint that is not much bigger than the small.

The Stanley 60 1/2 is a plane I currently don't have. I need to snag one if I see it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

as in the 60 1/2 block plane? The 'hand planet' seller has one he's (incorrectly) ID'ing as a 60.


----------



## WayneC

The Veritas arrived. Nice little plane.


----------



## bandit571

Twins?









Stanley No. 60-1/2, and a Millers Falls No. 56B..









Just got the 56B sharpened back up…









Might get some use out of it…


----------



## TheFridge

I have a little locking cooler for a small router. I need to fab some kind of adjustment. That's one of the things I like about the bigger routers.


----------



## WayneC

> I have a little locking cooler for a small router. I need to fab some kind of adjustment. That s one of the things I like about the bigger routers.
> 
> - TheFridge


St. James Bay has one on one of their Stanley 271 clones.


----------



## DLK

I bet you don't have one of these in your router plane collection. LOL


----------



## Bertha

^Don, I find the irons too wide for my taste ;-)


----------



## WayneC

I have one Don, but not as nice.


----------



## WayneC

No where near the patina.


----------



## BlasterStumps

WayneC, nice collection of small routers. 
I only have one. It is a repurposed paper punch. Makes a nice little router now.


----------



## Bertha

^that's awesome! I can't believe you let Wayne see it!


----------



## Bertha

Sorby shoulder tuned.


----------



## Bertha

The iron is ooooold. What's left of it.



















Laminated.


----------



## WayneC

> WayneC, nice collection of small routers.
> I only have one. It is a repurposed paper punch. Makes a nice little router now.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


That's a cool idea. Now I need to keep my eye out for hole punches…


----------



## WayneC

> ^that s awesome! I can t believe you let Wayne see it!
> 
> - Bertha


I would be more worried about the brass router you flashed the other day…


----------



## Bertha

Oh that guy. I found the build pictures. Rough casting from St. Johns.























































I'll get to a proper collar one of these days.


----------



## Bertha

Marblewood. Neighbors on the log.

Way more fun than this.


----------



## terryR

That's it. 
Gotta build a router plane.


----------



## woodcox

Yes,Terry. Yes you do.


----------



## DLK

Someone (not me) needs to organize a swap, where you repurpose something, some salvage, into a router plane.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Like a 2×4 and an allen wrench.


----------



## WayneC

> That s it.
> Gotta build a router plane.
> 
> - terryR


The guy that does awesome metal router plane builds is Abiel Rios.










If you are looking to make a wooden one then check Derek Cohen's article.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Picked up a 46mm toothing plane. I gave it a clean and sharpened the iron. Tried it out on some maple. It seems to work nice. It has an Arns blade but I am still trying to figure out the maker. I think it may have been made in Germany.


----------



## WayneC

Beautiful plane. That would be very nice to have on hand.


----------



## bandit571

Had to use a cambered jack plane today..









Stanley No. 5c…..needed to flatten a glue up…









Or two.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Wayne. I don't have the sandpaper I need to work on the sole. It's okay for now. It was a bit of a gamble on the blade being any good but I was able to get rid of the nicks. It turned out okay. I took my time with it but it didn't take as much work as I first thought. I think it will be worth the $15.


----------



## Boatman53

Here is a router plane I made for a Secret Santa gift about 4 years ago.



























Jim


----------



## Bertha

Jim, very nice. How'd you get that square peg in a round disc? Blaster, I think you're right about the German. Where are ECEs made? I always forget.


----------



## WayneC

> Thanks Wayne. I don t have the sandpaper I need to work on the sole. It s okay for now. It was a bit of a gamble on the blade being any good but I was able to get rid of the nicks. It turned out okay. I took my time with it but it didn t take as much work as I first thought. I think it will be worth the $15.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


That's a good deal.


----------



## WayneC

> Here is a router plane I made for a Secret Santa gift about 4 years ago.
> 
> Jim
> 
> - Boatman53


Did you make the hardware or is it available somewhere?


----------



## Boatman53

I made the hardware Wayne. I drilled the hole and filed it square. I did use my lathe for the knurled thumb screw but that was the only special tool. The blade clamp was just some 1/4" flat stock. The threaded portion was cut out square them rounded with a file and threaded with a hand die.
Jim


----------



## WayneC

Thanks. Some inspiration for me. I was planning to make some round depth stops and had been thinking about knurled knobs. I like your approach.

The cutter is really nice. Looks like a Lie-Nelson cutter?


----------



## Boatman53

Yes it is a L-N cutter. If I did it again I would probably use LV cutters so a wider range of bits would fit.
Jim


----------



## WayneC

Also, I think the LV cutters are about 1/2 the cost.


----------



## Mosquito

I wish the LV cutters were configurable to have the iron turned by 45 degrees from where it is. Then I could use them in the Preston router I've got. That way I could use them in either my Preston style or Stanley 71 (which is what I have them for now).

I could get some LN cutters to try with the Preston, I think, but I'm not sure how much I want to try at $35 a piece lol


----------



## WayneC

> I wish the LV cutters were configurable to have the iron turned by 45 degrees from where it is. Then I could use them in the Preston router I ve got. That way I could use them in either my Preston style or Stanley 71 (which is what I have them for now).
> 
> I could get some LN cutters to try with the Preston, I think, but I m not sure how much I want to try at $35 a piece lol
> 
> - Mosquito


I've got LN cutters. You could send your Preston to me to try… lol

That is one thing I've been wondering able the Walke Moore 2500. What does the availability of cutters look like?


----------



## Bertha

Did someone say Preston?


----------



## Bertha

What is this Walke Moore 2500? It sounds like it's 3/4 ton, whatever it is.


----------



## Mosquito

http://www.walkemooretools.com/shop/router-plane-model-2500/


----------



## Tim457

Very nicely done on that hardware, Jim.


----------



## WayneC

> Thank you WayneC very much. Nice pictures. Now all I can hope is that a transitional Stanley or Union will be close enough to work. I might stumble on to one of those in the right width but I doubt that I would be so lucky as to run on to a Union X4 or X5 any time soon. Thanks again for the nice work on the pictures and sharing the info with me.
> Mike
> 
> - BlasterStumps


One up on ebay…

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Union-4X-Lever-Cap-/282663485367?hash=item41d00e7fb7:g:KhsAAOSwb-tZw8dn


----------



## WayneC

> What is this Walke Moore 2500? It sounds like it s 3/4 ton, whatever it is.
> 
> - Bertha


Ton and a half.


----------



## Bertha

Wow. I want that router plane. It's a lot more reasonable than I expected. Not to be picky but given that I'm picky, what's going on with the knob posts? Is that some weird reflection? They don't seem to adopt the quality of finish the other parts have. Still want it.


----------



## Bertha

> Ton and a half.
> 
> - WayneC


that's what I'm talking about.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane picture…









Vs a little bit of Walnut..









Has a tapered iron…









That says it is an Ohio Tool Co. Auburn NY USA

Model number on the "nose" is No. 035…...


----------



## Mosquito

> Wow. I want that router plane. It s a lot more reasonable than I expected. Not to be picky but given that I m picky, what s going on with the knob posts? Is that some weird reflection? They don t seem to adopt the quality of finish the other parts have. Still want it.
> 
> - Bertha


I think it's because it's the non-polished finish. Just like with the Preston pattern router planes, you can move the iron around so both of the knob posts also double as cutter holders as well


----------



## DLK

> I wish the LV cutters were configurable to have the iron turned by 45 degrees from where it is. Then I could use them in the Preston router I ve got. That way I could use them in either my Preston style or Stanley 71 (which is what I have them for now).
> 
> I could get some LN cutters to try with the Preston, I think, but I m not sure how much I want to try at $35 a piece lol
> 
> - Mosquito


The spearpoint, half inch and the three quarter cutters are removable from their post via an allen wrench for easy sharpening with the sharpening jig. With a little modification you may be able to turn them 45 degrees.


----------



## DLK

> I wish the LV cutters were configurable to have the iron turned by 45 degrees from where it is. Then I could use them in the Preston router I ve got. That way I could use them in either my Preston style or Stanley 71 (which is what I have them for now).
> 
> I could get some LN cutters to try with the Preston, I think, but I m not sure how much I want to try at $35 a piece lol
> 
> - Mosquito


The spearpoint, half inch and the three quarter cutters are removable from their post via an allen wrench for easy sharpening with the sharpening jig. With a little modification you may be able to turn them 45 degrees.

- Combo Prof



> The 1/2" blades have a two-piece design and are available in two styles: straight and spear-point (for final smoothing). The 3/4" blade is straight and of a two-piece design. The blade sharpening jig is for use only with the 1/2" and 3/4" wide blades (jig is included with Veritas® planes). Sizes stated are nominal.
> 
> -Lee Valey


----------



## Mosquito

> I wish the LV cutters were configurable to have the iron turned by 45 degrees from where it is. Then I could use them in the Preston router I ve got. That way I could use them in either my Preston style or Stanley 71 (which is what I have them for now).
> 
> I could get some LN cutters to try with the Preston, I think, but I m not sure how much I want to try at $35 a piece lol
> 
> - Mosquito
> 
> 
> 
> The spearpoint, half inch and the three quarter cutters are removable from their post via an allen wrench for easy sharpening with the sharpening jig. With a little modification you may be able to turn them 45 degrees.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 1/2" blades have a two-piece design and are available in two styles: straight and spear-point (for final smoothing). The 3/4" blade is straight and of a two-piece design. The blade sharpening jig is for use only with the 1/2" and 3/4" wide blades (jig is included with Veritas® planes). Sizes stated are nominal.
> 
> -Lee Valey
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> - Combo Prof
Click to expand...

I'm aware, I have both of those, the 1/4" and the 1/8" LV irons and sharpening jig already, I'd just prefer not to remove the grooves that keep it lined up and locked straight. Could probably file another set of grooves into the post, but… not sure I'd get them straight enough or correct enough by hand


----------



## WayneC

The removable LV cutters have groves on them to ensure they align correctly. That might be an issue.


----------



## DLK

Well have them but have never taken them apart.

Could one buy square rod and make extra posts. I would make a jig that hold the LV post adjacent to the new post
in the right position. Then One could use it to correctly scribe the grooves. I don't think it would be too impossible.


----------



## 000

Anybody? Need any of this?
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/239449


----------



## DanKrager

Jbay, I'm sorry that happened to you. I think my rubber foot mats have saved a plane or two here.

Why don't you make a chisel plane out of it? Most of the work is done already…You could still sell the scorer, fence, rod, and depth stop.

DanK


----------



## 000

> Jbay, I m sorry that happened to you. I think my rubber foot mats have saved a plane or two here.
> 
> Why don t you make a chisel plane out of it? Most of the work is done already…You could still sell the scorer, fence, rod, and depth stop.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Thanks Dan,
I'm going to keep the blade. (going to use it for a hand scraper though)

I'm not interested in selling any of the rest, 
I would rather just give them to somebody, if they had any use for them. (backup,replacement parts??)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

My Millers Falls collection: a 4cbb and 5cbb set of Craftsman planes.


----------



## DLK

What is cbb ?


----------



## bandit571

Craftsman Budget Brand….


----------



## DLK

Thanks.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Craftsman (sears) marked their planes by Millers Falls with the 'BB' letters, and Sargent-made planes with "BL" per the OldTools archive. Can't find that the BB stood for Budget Brand. Got a source for that, Bandit, or is it like the car acronyms "Just Empty Every Pocket" or "First On Race Day"?


----------



## FoundSheep

Where are the marks located? I have a craftsman plane I got from my grandfather, but I never noticed if it has a mark.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The CBB markings are center-side-left on the plane's main body.










Reference info pretty sparse, but there were 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 models made (those are Stanley equivalents).


----------



## ColonelTravis

Accidentally knocked my most-loved smoothing plane off the bench today and onto concrete: LN 4 1/2. Didn't see anything wrong at first. Then I noticed the bottom of the knob had cracked in about 5 places. I'm guessing that's what hit first and took most the energy of the blow. Otherwise, no damage.

Anyway - three cheers for ductile iron. If this had been one of my Stanleys I wonder if it would have survived. Anyone drop their prized planes?

So mad at myself.


----------



## TheFridge

Email LN. They might send you one for free. Wouldn't Be the first time I've heard of them doing that.

Ductile is hard to crack. But it'll bend and squish if it hits wrong.

Was it woodcox? Broke his bedrock in half : 0

1/4 vinyl tiles are a wonderful thing


----------



## DLK

Plywood over foam board is even better.


----------



## donwilwol

I dropped my 604 once. It's why it's got a new tote. Luckily that was the only damage.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

I dropped a handyman #5 once. Went from crap iron to pig iron in the time it took to kiss the concrete from the bench. I still have it to use for when I get time to learn to sand cast.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I knocked my T13 No. 4 1/2 off the bench, onto the (then) concrete floor years ago. It now has a very short and (less than a) hairline, 1/4" crack along one sidewall. No impact in use. It's a Walt, so it's staying with me as-is.


----------



## Mosquito

I have yet to so far. Rolled a chisel or two off the bench, but that's about it.

I like my tool tray


----------



## woodcox

I've never owned a bedrock to drop Something that traumatic I would have had to block out and forget. So maybe?

I have let my favorite knuckle cap plane hit the floor. Definitely a horrible sound to deal with. It landed on a the heel corner and spit out the iron but, only cosmetic damage.

Sorry that happened to your smoother, Col.


----------



## Bertha

Mathieson moulder - boxed


----------



## theoldfart

Looks good Al, what kind of slipstone is that?


----------



## Bertha

Preston dado


----------



## Bertha

Don, that's a DMT wave. I don't necessarily recommend it.


----------



## bandit571

Feeling groovy…


----------



## DanKrager

What do you find the wave's weakness to be, Bertha? I would pull the trigger on a good deal, but none has come along. Not a high priority, yet.

DanK


----------



## Bertha

Sorry, fart, I addressed you as Don. I must have seen it in your sig. My bad.


----------



## chrisstef

Never seen that wave before. Looks interesting for sure. Im moving toward all water stones but i like the innovation there.


----------



## TheFridge

I like shaptons myself. Even when I put off flattening it hasn't affected sharpening and it doesn't take long. I have to keep more shop towels on hand so I don't cross contaminate but that's the worst of it. It handles A2 like a champ. What're you thinking about going to? Or have you started acquiring already?


----------



## TheFridge

> Sorry, fart, I addressed you as Don. I must have seen it in your sig. My bad.
> 
> - Bertha


How dare you…

Don't jump on him fart. I got you covered.


----------



## DLK

> *Kevin*, that s a DMT wave. I don't necessarily recommend it.
> 
> - Bertha


Bertha what don't you like about the wave?


----------



## ColonelTravis

I thought about buying a wave a while back but did not for reasons I can't remember. I bet I'll be reminded of them here shortly.


----------



## Bertha

An A. Howland hollow


----------



## Bertha

Don, I think it should be broken into 5. The radii increase too quickly for length. It gets too steep too fast and the 600 grit is a bit fine. I broke a Tormek stone and I shape the shards for purpose. The wave enters before the powerstrop.


----------



## DLK

> Don, I think it should be broken into 5. The radii increase too quickly for length. It gets too steep too fast and the 600 grit is a bit fine. I broke a Tormek stone and I shape the shards for purpose. The wave enters before the powerstrop.
> 
> - Bertha


Thanks. My plan starting mid october is to start rehabilitation some molding plans. So your latest barrage is very interesting to me.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Looks like I have a loaner. I found this old G-5 Greatneck which I was thinking was made by Sargent. I looked at the sole and mouth close when I found it and it looked good. I guess my vision got me on this one because after a couple hours soak in Evaporust, I could easily see that it has a good sized crack at the corner of the mouth. Well I started out with intentions of really fixing it up but after seeing that it is cracked, I did a quick and dirty fixup. I patched the tote and cleaned up the knob, soaked all the parts and cleaned them. It will take a really nice shaving eventhough. I think I discovered the reason that the mouth has a crack. The blade was not sharpened correctly and on the side where the crack is, the blade was really dull. Appears to me that it might have seen some rough handling becuase it wasn't cutting on that side. Oh well, with my up close eyesight gone missing these day, I guess it had to happen sometime, paying for a cracked sole. Rats.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Picture…









Waiting for the "call"....


----------



## WayneC

If your interesting in making an Infill Miter Plane. Bill Carter has a series of videos on how to do it in his "YouTube Channel. There are about 30 videos in the series.

Also, if you're of Facebook. There is a handplane group there.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Just a follow-up to my incompetence in dropping a L-N plane on the garage floor. I emailed LN to see how much a replacement knob would cost, they sent one for free. Great company. Also had great CS with L-V. Love them both.

When it comes to your nice tools:


----------



## chrisstef

> I like shaptons myself. Even when I put off flattening it hasn t affected sharpening and it doesn t take long. I have to keep more shop towels on hand so I don t cross contaminate but that s the worst of it. It handles A2 like a champ. What re you thinking about going to? Or have you started acquiring already?
> 
> - TheFridge


Ive all ready started acquiring Fridge. Ive got the 4000/8000 norton for plane finishing and touch ups and a couple of small slip stones for the carving tools. Ive been using a 200 grit diamond stone to flatten but it gets vacuumed on there too much. Its annoying. Near future ill likely start dropping down in levels of grit. Maybe a 1000 and a 2000. If an iron needs more work than that ill go to the worksharp.


----------



## Bertha

Stef the 10" extra coarse DMT plate doesn't suffer as bad from the vacuum. It's pretty aggressive initially.


----------



## chrisstef

Yea i got the little 2" x 5" (or whatever) and it it goes all Fridge on me. I gotta keep rinsing it off every other pass.

Do you go with a Nagura stone to create a slurry on the real fine grit stones?


----------



## WayneC

I need to rationalize my sharpening stuff and settle on a method.


----------



## chrisstef

Thats where im headin Wayne. Settling in on what works for me. Im not rehabbing much lately so the WS sits pretty idle. I dont like much it for the final stages but it cant be beat for dialing in a new bevel. For established bevels and fine tuning i really like the water stones but i need to go just a little more coarse to work out the occasional nick.


----------



## Bertha

Stef, I did a test on my sharpening methods (blog) and I'm not happy with the nagura. It definitely interfered with the final finish. Whether that's a functional problem…I'd say highly, highly unlikely. But yeah, it helps on the higher grits. I have a tendency to let the slurry build up outside the path of the iron. If I redistribute it as is forms, it seems to work a little smoother. I put too much pressure on the irons for waterstones. It's like I either have to feel grinding or the iron turn-over to the new grit (I don't know the proper term for "turnover", which is what I use; it's when the iron puts up some resistance with the first few strokes, then you can feel it give up or turnover to sliding freely). I'm used to sandpaper, which clearly has many advantages.


----------



## Bertha

Wayne, I've narrowed mine down to 2.
Both start the same:
Grinder/diamond (regular grinder, not Tormek; and DMT xC/C plates
then:
1) water- 800, 1K, 4K, 6K, 8K, 12K
<or>
2) sandpaper- 120, 160, 220, 320, 400, 600, 800, 1K, 1.5K, 2K, 2.5K
then:
strop on clean strop charged with tripoli.
Currently, I prefer the waterstones simply because it's relaxing to me.
For quick and dirty or for a quick fixup, I go sandpaper.
I've got a slender bar of granite with 1K, 1.5K, and 2K on it. A couple passes on each refreshes well.


----------



## chrisstef

I feel ya brother. I ham fist it too. Gotta feel that grit to know its working. I think its a patience thing. If i dont get into that zen mode i find myself rushing to get to the next grit so i can move on to whatevers next even if its nothing. Need to slow my roll a little.

I need to get back in to the shop. Its been too long.


----------



## WayneC

I have the water stones up to 8K, 8" slow speed grinder, Worksharp and lots of sandpaper. I also have strops but have not used for wood working tools. I've been wondering about diamond stones. lol

I guess I just need to knuckle down and work with what I have.


----------



## DLK

Keep your knuckles up so they won't be abraided.


----------



## chrisstef

I knew you were a knuckle up kinda guy combo.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Stef, I did a test on my sharpening methods (blog) and I m not happy with the nagura.
> 
> - Bertha


After a few years with a single nagura, using it sometimes, not using it other times, I don't see any advantage using it. There are many types of nagura and if it's a lower grit than your fine stones, it can interfere. My polisher came with one, I never thought it clogged it but I find my particular nagura useless. I never bothered to look into trying others because I get a great slurry from a DMT. I can swipe that diamond stone over them often, the total amount of time I take to sharpen isn't that long.


----------



## Bertha

^kinda my story. I tried a bunch of naguras (the exception being the ones that cost hundreds of dollars, WTF?) and I settled on the highest grit. Truth be told, I use it primarily to rub crud off my stones, clear a contaminating whatever, etc. Going diamond from beginning to end makes a lot of sense. I don't have any extremely fine diamonds, so I don't really know what I'm talking about.


----------



## WayneC

I thought knuckles down was the best way to control hair growth.


----------



## donwilwol

> Wayne, I ve narrowed mine down to 2.
> Both start the same:
> Grinder/diamond (regular grinder, not Tormek; and DMT xC/C plates
> then:
> 1) water- 800, 1K, 4K, 6K, 8K, 12K
> 
> 2) sandpaper- 120, 160, 220, 320, 400, 600, 800, 1K, 1.5K, 2K, 2.5K
> then:
> strop on clean strop charged with tripoli.
> Currently, I prefer the waterstones simply because it s relaxing to me.
> For quick and dirty or for a quick fixup, I go sandpaper.
> I ve got a slender bar of granite with 1K, 1.5K, and 2K on it. A couple passes on each refreshes well.
> 
> - Bertha


If you start with the grinder, why do you need anything but the last stone? You're Only finishing the edge (almost like a microbevel) so all the intermediate stones are just taking up time.


----------



## Bertha

^true. If I'm coming off the grinder hollow, I like to hand hone if I'm keeping it hollow. I'm not good enough yet to trust my technique. I have to SEE the bevel to make sure it's even (not that it really needs to be). What I'm describing is more from taking down from hollow to flat. I like to waste off material on the grinder, then switch to a flat grind with a jig/hand.

But you're right, of course, in sharpening just the edge of a hollow grind. If I look at it under the microscope and make a bevel less than 0.25mm, it's just as sharp; and seems to hold up just as long. In addition to wasting time, you're wasting metal. It's one of the many wasteful things I do to satisfy my OCD lust for sharp rectilinear patterns lol.


----------



## Mosquito

Anyone here see anything they're interested in? It's all fixing to be sold off in some way or another, just figured I'd give first crack at it here.










Left to right:

Newer Sargent
Pair of Keen Kutter K5's
Millers Falls No. 9C (maybe type 3? Not an expert on Millers Falls types), 
Newer-ish Stanley 110
Hardwood Stanley level (Sweetheart era stamp on the brass plate)
Stanley Handyman egg beater drill
E. C. Stearns saw set
Stanley 140 Parts (iron and cap are about it, the main casting was broken and repaired but not straight)
A plumb bob
Stanley 95 mortise butt gauge.

There will be more, but that's what I had ready for the picture. I'll get better pictures of anything anyone is interested in, otherwise I'll be eventually taking better pictures and listing it as a forum post then eBay.

Shoot me a PM with an offer on things with interest. I've not got any hard prices in mind, just ballparks for some of them.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Butt gauge, maybe?


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, i'd be interested in the 140 parts.


----------



## Mosquito

> Butt gauge, maybe?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop





> Mos, i d be interested in the 140 parts.
> 
> - theoldfart


Sure, shoot me a PM guys with what you're thinking, and I'll get some better pictures of them (I took more pictures last night, but was apparently more shaky than I thought I was…)


----------



## dbray45

I used the water stones for a good while, used the nagura as well.

Got the DMT XC, C, F, XF, 10,000. These did pretty well. Then I glued a thick piece of leather to a piece of wood and melted green polishing compound into it. That changed the rules in a serious way. After using the XF DMT, I go to the leather blocks (I did this on different sizes of dowels) and all of the marks go away and the blades glide through the wood, even the older (real steel) blades and carving tools enjoy this method.


----------



## DLK

> I used the water stones for a good while, used the nagura as well.
> 
> Got the DMT XC, C, F, XF, 10,000. These did pretty well. Then I glued a thick piece of leather to a piece of wood and melted green polishing compound into it. That changed the rules in a serious way. After using the XF DMT, I go to the leather blocks (I did this on different sizes of dowels) and all of the marks go away and the blades glide through the wood, even the older (real steel) blades and carving tools enjoy this method.
> 
> - dbray45


Thats the method I use. (Except I don't know what the 10,000 means).


----------



## terryR

So. What do you guys use to flatten a DMT? It drives me nuts to see hollows appear on the surface of the DMT while sharpening, but they are clearly there. I suppose I've abused them over the years by using one as a flat surface for a surface gauge, and another to sharpen nails while spinning in the drill.

I swear the 160 grit DMT is worn. Took forever to place the initial flat on the back of a freahly heat treated iron yesterday. Time for me to invest in granite and sandpaper. Or send stuff to Wayne with the worksharp. LOL.

Regardless, I spent tons of time filing the bed of this miter to match the bevel of the mouth, then sanding it perfect. Iron sharpened to 8000 grit, no strop. And a fine finish on this Sapele which has nasty grain changing properties. Hard to beat a tight mouth and a very sharp iron!










now to finish the plane…


----------



## WayneC

That is going to be a thing of beauty Terry.


----------



## DLK

Never needed to Flatten a DMT. I do get particles stuck in the extra coarse and coarse stones that can mostly be removed with a wire brush.


----------



## dbray45

10,000 grit DMT


----------



## bandit571

Oil stone to 1,000…..wet-or-dry paper to 2,500….strop and back to work..









I have work to do, after all….


----------



## WayneC

There is a Paul Hamler Scraper insert for sale on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/uncommon-Paul-Hamler-scraper-insert-for-Stanley-or-Bedrock-2-3-8-wide-planes/152718473378?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144

In Facebook there were discussions that he might be doing another run of these. Basically it converts a bench plane to a scraper by replacing the frog.


----------



## DLK

> 10,000 grit DMT
> 
> - dbray45


I can find Shapton Glass Stone in 10000 grit but not DMT.


----------



## CFrye

On the Hamler, the price was better than expected. The size was not. I went in search of a miniature tool!


----------



## WayneC

> On the Hamler, the price was better than expected. The size was not. I went in search of a miniature tool!
> 
> - CFrye


It's actually a usable tool.


----------



## CFrye

Never a doubt, Wayne! Just not what I expected


----------



## Bertha

> It s actually a usable tool.
> 
> - WayneC


I own one and Wayne is correct. Worth every penny of what they're asking. Keep in mind you'll need a 4-1/2 for it. Or a 604-1/2 if you're nasty.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Never heard of that Hamler insert. Is it easier/worse/same vs. the 112 or LV/LN knockoffs?


----------



## donwilwol

> Mos, i d be interested in the 140 parts.
> 
> - theoldfart


Damn….i could have used the cap.


----------



## bandit571

One for Don W:









Has an Eclipse iron…maybe a replacement..









No, there isn't a frog…..yoke hangs on a longer pin/rod, and acts as the lateral lever, as well.

May post pictures of the frog….IF anyone wants.









Seems to need a little sharpening…..about a #3 sized plane..


----------



## Tim457

> Never heard of that Hamler insert. Is it easier/worse/same vs. the 112 or LV/LN knockoffs?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


My first thought too. The LN large scraping plane is $235 and LV is $179. You can buy more than one extra blade such as a toothing blade for the price difference between the LV and that Hamler. I will say the Hamler looks more solid than the LV scraping insert.


----------



## WayneC

The price is driven by collectability. He stopped selling them in 2012. I believe Al has one.

Paul Hamler is the guy that makes all the awesome miniatures.


----------



## TheFridge

That guy. I watched a vid on making a small plow. Awesome stuff.


----------



## WayneC

> It s actually a usable tool.
> 
> - WayneC
> 
> I own one and Wayne is correct. Worth every penny of what they re asking. Keep in mind you ll need a 4-1/2 for it. Or a 604-1/2 if you re nasty.
> 
> - Bertha


By Al's definition, if I had one I would be nasty. They could also go in newer 5 1/2, 6 or 7.

Also, Al was my latest bad influence. I made an eBay purchase last night based on something he posted.


----------



## TheFridge

Damn enablers


----------



## WayneC

> Damn enablers
> 
> - TheFridge


He is one of the worst.


----------



## TheFridge

Or enabling by proxy.

When red showed off his summerfield saws that was the straw that broke the camels back.


----------



## Bertha

^I just try to do my part. I've got 60 new (to me) molding planes to restore so I'm more than happy to enable molding plane purchases. It's an orgasmically tactile experience. You owe it to yourself to tune one up, especially a sprung one. Long, noisy cuts. However, at the end, you're left with molding (ffs).


----------



## WayneC

I think we need a molding plane tuning video…


----------



## TheFridge

I almost bought a set of float to make my own but I couldn't pull the trigger.


----------



## jmartel

I've got a set of 3 ceramic water stones from Toolsfromjapan. I'm quite happy with them and don't see needing anything else. It came with a 1000 grit, 6000 grit, and 13000 grit stone, as well as a 400 grit atoma diamond stone for flatting the ceramic ones. Works great, sharpest my stuff has ever been, and leaves a great finish. I think the whole set was around $240 shipped? Depends on the Yen vs USD comaprison. Use it to sharpen my kitchen knives as well.

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=335_404_403&products_id=1667


----------



## Bertha

^that's a bargain. Oddly, and oft overlooked, I think the 6000x stone is the most effective one I use. I use a 1000/6000 combo at work to sharpen my knife. At home, I just use some dry Spyderco thingy and take them out to the shop on occasion.


----------



## Bertha

25000 Japanese Yen equals
221.9068 US Dollar


----------



## WayneC

That looks interesting.


----------



## TheFridge

I have a buddy in Nagoya, Japan right now. I tried looking online for somewhere local he could stop and pick up something for me like a blue steel marking knife or some thing. Didn't work out to well. I cant read Japanese.

Toolsfromjapan isn't a convenient ride so that sucks. I would've gotten him to bring me something home from there.

If he doesn't eat him some Kobe beef while there I will ridicule him for the rest of his life.


----------



## Bertha

I've got a buddy in Japan that said he tried to ship something and they wouldn't ship it to the US. He's lying, of course, but I let it go. Japan only has about 5 things I'm interested in: chisels, stones, beef, and poisonous food. You'll point out that I only listed 4.


----------



## chrisstef

Ladyboys come from Thailand not Japan, Al. At least thats what Fridge tells me.


----------



## WayneC

> I ve got a buddy in Japan that said he tried to ship something and they wouldn t ship it to the US. He s lying, of course, but I let it go. Japan only has about 5 things I m interested in: chisels, stones, beef, and poisonous food. You ll point out that I only listed 4.
> 
> - Bertha


Saws. You forgot saws.


----------



## WayneC

> Ladyboys come from Thailand not Japan, Al. At least thats what Fridge tells me.
> 
> - chrisstef


I'm sure he can find other "special interests" in Japan.


----------



## jmartel

There's a dropdown menu on the left side of the page to convert it from yen to USD. Using their conversion it's $232 plus shipping. Still a good deal. I will be ordering some nice chisels here in a bit once my shop is built.

I found some kobe beef in an asian grocery store here a few weeks ago. I'm sure it's not true kobe beef but the marbling was insane. Texture was way different than anything else I've tried. Taste was almost like a mix between steak and bacon. It was very good but super rich.


----------



## chrisstef

Mmmmm steakcon


----------



## WayneC

> There s a dropdown menu on the left side of the page to convert it from yen to USD. Using their conversion it s $232 plus shipping. Still a good deal. I will be ordering some nice chisels here in a bit once my shop is built.
> 
> I found some kobe beef in an asian grocery store here a few weeks ago. I m sure it s not true kobe beef but the marbling was insane. Texture was way different than anything else I ve tried. Taste was almost like a mix between steak and bacon. It was very good but super rich.
> 
> - jmartel


Damn now I'm hungry.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The collecting continues with a Millers Falls (Craftsman) 3CBB.


----------



## Bertha

> Ladyboys come from Thailand not Japan, Al. At least thats what Fridge tells me.
> 
> - chrisstef


Aw, man. Thailand smells funny.


----------



## bandit571

Meh.









Needs a label on the tote…brass in the lever cap…
.


----------



## Bertha

Here's the Hamler exposed:





































(he cnc'd my logo on the screw; they're normally stainless or brass)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's a nice gold badged craftsman, bandit. do you put it in the till, next to the cordovan you painted black?


----------



## ColonelTravis

> I think we need a molding plane tuning video…
> 
> - WayneC


Moldings In Practice DVD. $25 from LN. 
I bought it, it's worth it if you know nothing about them, which I did not at the time. Much more than tuning. Actually not a whole lot on tuning. But enough.

Ah hell, it's still good for beginners.


----------



## WayneC

I hope Hamler does another run of the inserts.



> Aw, man. Thailand smells funny.
> 
> - Bertha


Depends on where you're at. Beaches are nice.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sweet Hamler, thanks for the close ups.


----------



## TheFridge

That thing looks well made


----------



## bandit571

Nope, have a normal Millers Falls No. 8 in the til….along with a couple "twins." 
.









Still in Cardovan…#60-1/2…....plus a Millers Falls No. 56B…..


----------



## BlasterStumps

I found a Stanley S18 today. It was quite rusty so it's now in the soak. It all looks like I can bring it back to working condition with a little elbow grease once I get the rust off. The bottom is not rusty so bad as is the inside. The blade, lever cap, and lateral adjuster look good. Knobs are both there but the throat adjustment plate and little lever for it have both gone missing. I don't think it needs that part to work but it might be interesting to try to make a plate. Anyone have one that I can take a look at to see how they made it? Much appreciated if you do. 
Mike
Pictures to come once I get it a little bit cleaner. It'll never be a collectible probably, it is too badly ravaged by poor care over the years.


----------



## terryR

The completed all-steel miter plane. Overall length is 7". Iron is 1.25" wide and bedded at 20 degrees. Wenge for the infill.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here's a couple pictures of the S18 Stanley block plane. It's sitting on the bench next to the 118 and a mystery 118 look-a-like bevel up block plane. Most of the plating is gone from the lever cap. It's kind of rough. It will cut okay but I can see why they made it with an adjustable mouth. The sliding plate is missing on this one though.


----------



## donwilwol

Blaster, I can give you some photos of the front of an s18 when I get home.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Don. 


> Blaster, I can give you some photos of the front of an s18 when I get home.
> 
> - Don W


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

Another Beautiful plane Terry, please share some more photos


----------



## terryR

^Thanks!


----------



## TheFridge

> The completed all-steel miter plane. Overall length is 7". Iron is 1.25" wide and bedded at 20 degrees. *Alder* for the infill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - terryR


There we go. Fixed it terry


----------



## WayneC

I'm getting the bug to build one or two. I have a couple of brass routers to finish at the moment. Thanks for the enablement Al.


----------



## Just_Iain

Fellow Lumberjocks, about a 6 weeks ago I was looking at getting a restored Stanley plane. Now I can't find the link to said restorer that if memory serves me right also is a Lumberjock. Any suggestions? Great website about collecting and restoring and just happened to have some desirable planes for sale. I could get bombarded for this but throw me any ideas who it was.

Many Thanks,
Iain


----------



## DLK

Was it http://www.timetestedtools.net/.


----------



## Wally331

Gorgeous work Terry! And I second the timetestedtools recommendation. Can't go wrong with Don.

Anyone have experience making a coffin infill plane? Such as norris no. 4?


----------



## warrenkicker

Picked up an Revonoc 4 1/2 plane tonight for $12. There was a lot of other options and just wanted to hear what others thought of these prices. These are all Stanley planes. Nothing was perfect but users with a bit of rust.

No 6 $26
No 62 $144
No 5 1/4 $37
No 10 $77
No 4 1/2 $48
No 94 $63
No 112 $91
No 2 $189


----------



## DLK

Those prices aren't horrible. Some are excellent.


----------



## donwilwol

> Picked up an Revonoc 4 1/2 plane tonight for $12. There was a lot of other options and just wanted to hear what others thought of these prices. These are all Stanley planes. Nothing was perfect but users with a bit of rust.
> 
> No 6 $26
> No 62 $144
> No 5 1/4 $37
> No 10 $77
> No 4 1/2 $48
> No 94 $63
> No 112 $91
> No 2 $189
> 
> - warrenkicker


Other than the #2 (may have been something special) these prices look really good.


----------



## donwilwol

> Fellow Lumberjocks, about a 6 weeks ago I was looking at getting a restored Stanley plane. Now I can t find the link to said restorer that if memory serves me right also is a Lumberjock. Any suggestions? Great website about collecting and restoring and just happened to have some desirable planes for sale. I could get bombarded for this but throw me any ideas who it was.
> 
> Many Thanks,
> Iain
> 
> - Just_Iain


I had taken the for sale page down for a while. I was getting rid of the "buy it" button. Then I got side tracked.


----------



## donwilwol

I finally found a Sargent #10. I didn't know they were so rare. I still need a #7, but they're not that rare and I have photos from a contributor.

Look for a new Sargent plane book. It will have some details about every metallic plane sargent made. A new 700 series type study. I hope to publish before Thanksgiving.


----------



## donwilwol

> Thanks Don.
> 
> Blaster, I can give you some photos of the front of an s18 when I get home.
> 
> - Don W
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Sorry blaster. I forgot you. I'll try to remember.


----------



## Just_Iain

> Fellow Lumberjocks, about a 6 weeks ago I was looking at getting a restored Stanley plane. Now I can t find the link to said restorer that if memory serves me right also is a Lumberjock. Any suggestions? Great website about collecting and restoring and just happened to have some desirable planes for sale. I could get bombarded for this but throw me any ideas who it was.
> 
> Many Thanks,
> Iain
> 
> - Just_Iain
> 
> I had taken the for sale page down for a while. I was getting rid of the "buy it" button. Then I got side tracked.
> 
> - Don W


So I wasn't losing my mind after all! Stanley #2 ordered!!!

Iain


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## WayneC

Looks pretty nice Don.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thank you Don. That gives me a real good idea on what I would need to do to fabricate one. I appreciate it. Thanks again.
Mike


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm, seems I have work to do..









Stanley No. 4c, Type 16….









Price, counting local sales tax…$12.87…....

Rosewood handles have NO cracks, Iron may be a replacement….no biggie.

May get to cleaning after a bit of supper…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice plane Bandit. You got a good deal there. I hope I get to see some more pics of it when you have finished working on it.

I have one also that I am going to start cleaning up. It is a Type 14 that came to me minus the blade, chip breaker and also missing is the lever cap. I have given it a close, close inspection and it looks good all around the mouth and at the rear of the sole and on both sides. So far, I have not discovered any cracks. This time, I used both my head visor and I also looked at the plane under the low-power microscope. Hopefully I am right, no cracks. I'll share a couple pictures when I get it cleaned and back together. Here it is as of tonight:


----------



## bandit571

Here you go.









And the other side..









Could be a hair sharper, only went to 2000 grit..









I left the woodwork ( handles) alone, for now….


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nicely done Bandit, nicely done. Should be a good one. 
Mike


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here is the No 4 after I cleaned it and added a blade, chip breaker and the lever cap. The blade is not a type 14 blade. I don't have one so I used this later blade at least for now. So far it appears to be a pretty sweet little plane. I'm happy, happy. I've held out for about three years trying to find a No 4 that I really wanted. Finally found this one on an online auction site. Had to give way more than I wanted to for it and it was a big gamble as to whether it was any good or not. Turns out the gamble may have paid off. Now I am on the hunt for a really nice proper blade for a type 14. Or, I might opt to put in a Hock blade/chip breaker : )


----------



## TaySC

What's the purpose of this plane? Stanley 248 plow plane I think it said….


----------



## bandit571

Weather strip grooves…light plough plane….


----------



## Bertha

My first Sargent. I hope I don't get all Wayne with them.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Bertha, I don't know a whole lot about Sargent planes. What is the number or model of that one? How does the handle being raised by the pivot make for comfort in the hand or lack thereof?


----------



## bandit571

More for use on a shooting board….keeps one's knuckles from getting hit..


----------



## WayneC

> My first Sargent. I hope I don t get all Wayne with them.
> 
> - Bertha


Or Don even. I think I own 3 Sargent. A router, a T&G and a bench plane in my restore pile.



Not that I wouldn't like a set of Shaw Patent planes.


----------



## Bertha

Blaster, I don't know anything about them. It looks like the little tilty thing would fit on most planes. It appears that this handle has been bobbed (by the factory?) to accommodate the riser. It's a weird setup. the front of the tote has a long screw that penetrates the tote, passes through the top plate, screws through the bottom plate, and into the plane base. An angled screw anchors the bottom plate to the plane base through the rear tote screw. Then a third screw just holds the top plate to the bottom plate. I didn't bother looking at it when I disassembled it and had some trouble figuring it back together. It's got plenty of room and it's pretty comfortable, if not odd. It's a lot lighter than the same sized stanley. The frog is junky and you have to align it by eye. No frog adjuster. The lateral is unattractive, but it works well. I sharpened the iron too steep and I spent way too much time tuning it. I think the handle tilt would actually be nice as a jack with diagonal strokes.

Wayne, I think it will be my last, but who knows. I stopped at one Gage, too. I still think that there's bedrock, and everything else.


----------



## Pimzedd

OK, I need some info about Siegley planes. I bought the no. 5C and the No. 4 in the photo just because I had never run across them before. Just interested in anything about them. Also got the 71 1/2 and the two 148's at the same sale. Total for all of them $85.


----------



## donwilwol

AL, I WANT THAT PLANE!!


----------



## theoldfart

Tell us how you really feel Don!


----------



## donwilwol

I'd say I didn't mean to yell, but I really did.


----------



## donwilwol

So much for a poker face!


----------



## Bertha

Don, if you really NEED it, of course you can have it. If you just WANT it, let me play around with it a while. I have hardly anything in it except labor. It all looks genuine but I stripped what was left of the japaning. The blade is proper and full length but it needs reground from 30.

I don't know alot about the Siegleys except they have cool lever caps. I've seen a lot of them around.


----------



## Mosquito

> OK, I need some info about Siegley planes. I bought the no. 5C and the No. 4 in the photo just because I had never run across them before. Just interested in anything about them.
> 
> - Pimzedd


They were originally made by Jacob Siegley in Wikes-Barre, PA, and later bought by Stanley (which the era of plane you have would have been when Stanley before they switched them to more closely match their own bench planes and sell them as sTs and sSs)


----------



## Bertha

^learn something every day.


----------



## donwilwol

> OK, I need some info about Siegley planes. I bought the no. 5C and the No. 4 in the photo just because I had never run across them before. Just interested in anything about them. Also got the 71 1/2 and the two 148 s at the same sale. Total for all of them $85.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Pimzedd


http://www.timetestedtools.net/category/hand-planes/siegley-planes/


----------



## Pimzedd

Thanks Mos and Don. Knew I could find out here.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here's a late No 4. Probably made just prior to the buy out. One thing I can tell you about this Siegley No 4 is that it is lighter in weight than a No 4 Stanley by about a 1/4. Whatever the weight difference, it is easily noticeable if you heft one then the other. This No 4 is interesting and fun to play around with but not my favorite as a user smoother.


----------



## Pimzedd

BlasterStumps, hope I can get mine to look as good as yours.

Like you, I have Stanley No. 4 that is tuned to my liking.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Bill, where in the heck did you find that stuff? I'm in DFW and you don't see tools like that very much here. Unless you go over to Lynn Dowd's place in Garland.


----------



## Pimzedd

I can't tell you my secret source!!!!

Oh well, I have too many tools already. I bought them at an estate sale. I keep an eye out for sales like this one. This sale was in The Colony, one day only. I went to the sale to look at the wood stash. Passed on the wood but made up for it with the tools. Lot of other wood guys at this one.

I know Lynn, thought he would be at this sale but he was missing.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Missed that one, great haul. I haven't had much luck this year at estate sales. Last year I found a #2 in very good condition for $5, had a few other successes. This year has been a dud for me.


----------



## Mosquito

*BlasterStumps* That one is actually post-buy out, and not long after that one they switched the castings.


----------



## Bertha

Wooden rebate, this one with a cap iron. Takes a little finesse to adjust them independently. Sole had to be jointed and it was covered in white paint. I managed to cut a small rebate in cherry freehand, without a fence. Once you get the hang of it (and the iron is balls sharp), it's not that difficult.


----------



## Bertha

Victor
https://www.etsy.com/listing/229881548/one-victor-wood-plane-vintage-1930s-40s?ga_order=date_desc&ga_search_type=vintage&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=woodworking%20tools&ref=sr_gallery_45


----------



## Just_Iain

Trivia or firestorm time. On Stanley style #4 and smaller, the sole has a protrusion off the back of the sole to accommodate the length of the tote. Also seen on the Stanley scrub planes. Does the protrusion have a name or nickname? If none, I'm partial to 'boat tail".


----------



## chrisstef

I refer to it as the tail nipple ^


----------



## Bertha

Mons planus


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

planus uranus: A plane's tail


----------



## donwilwol

Anyone ever wonder why it's raised on some planes and on some it's an extension of the bed?


----------



## Bertha

^Don says, as if he already knows. I like the bossing. It makes it look more solid to my eye. Whether it actually is, that's another question. It might even decrease strength with that tiny lever arm. Good question, though.


----------



## Bertha

Another question. Why are mitre planes so damn attractive? What exactly makes them so uniquely gorgeous? For me, I think it's the geometry, as I don't generally like curves. And the heft. Wide ass early DT'd Spiers with a mouth you can barely get a razor through? Man.


----------



## Bertha

monomammary bossing: the single raised tit on a plane's tail.


----------



## Just_Iain

As much as I admire your ingenuity, I'll stick with boat tail.


----------



## Just_Iain

> Another question. Why are mitre planes so damn attractive? What exactly makes them so uniquely gorgeous? For me, I think it s the geometry, as I don t generally like curves. And the heft. Wide ass early DT d Spiers with a mouth you can barely get a razor through? Man.
> 
> - Bertha


They are the Big Bertha of speciality planes. Isn't that obvious?


----------



## theoldfart

OK, so I got the mitre jack and you would I love the mitre plane. I'm noticing on Jim Bodes site he calls them piano makers planes.


----------



## terryR

I think it's because they are so phallic in appearance.

I've been reading a bit on the history of the miter plane, and it seems they first appeared in the marquetry sections of woodworking books, not joinery. A tool needed to apply the final smoothing on multiple pieces of wood which had grain direction running in all directions. No tearout would be accepted whtsoever. Hence, the low angle and super tight mouth.

I think due to their mass, woodworkers found them to be the preferred smoothing plane for difficult woods, and cleaning up the end grain joinery, too.


----------



## ToddJB

Too bad they look so cheap and flimsy.


----------



## TheFridge

I know right? That alder infill looks hot though.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wonder if that alder could be oxidized?


----------



## TheFridge

Oh the humanity!

No smitty! Say it ain't so!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Just razzin' you a bit, Fridge. Not to worry (even though it'd look pretty good)
.
.
.
.
.
"It ain't so."


----------



## TheFridge

At least you didn't say a distressed infill…..


----------



## Bertha

^ crackle painted infill. Milkpaint over hide glue. 
I can oxidize wood for a small fee. Give me 6 months. Pathetically, I've got a bunch of cherry laid out in the rain, sun, etc. I want it to do whatever it is it wants to do, then I'll pick the straight parts and dimension them. I get more comments about the weathered stuff than the planed/jointed stack in my storage building. Ooooo it's so pretty, etc.

Terry, I didn't know that about the history of mitres. Makes sense, though. I don't care what they're meant for, I just want them.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's lacking alder infill, but I do love this #9, Al.


----------



## theoldfart

^ sigh.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> ^ sigh.
> 
> - theoldfart


I know, right? Nothing new to post in months, just the same old stuff rehashed over and over. New material needed, desperately. What's a tool guy to do (until Terry decides to sell something)?


----------



## bandit571

Quityerbitchin…









Cleaned the sole up on this little plane…









Seems to be a "Little Giant" plane…









And that is the "iron" it uses..









Cleaned the "cap iron/chipbreaker" 









Made a few shavings…not much to hold on to, though..









Maybe L-N could do a Bronze version….?


----------



## chrisstef

Cross post cuz im a comment whore


----------



## theoldfart

Shiney bright.


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah OF and bertha. I'm with you on the 9. one day.


----------



## theoldfart

When will Terry Inc.be taking pre orders?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Cross post cuz im a comment whore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - chrisstef


Nice job, stef.


----------



## terryR

Stef, mine are in the mail to you. 

OF, just ordered a maker's stamp and searching for an affordable fly press.

would love a No.9.

The photos and sketches of the earlist miter planes that i've seen, don't even have the sides constructed flush with the base, so forget shooting ideas. Just for final smoothing. And usually quite ornate.


----------



## DLK

So now I am confused. If these sides need not be at 90 degrees to the base why are are these called miter planes?


----------



## donwilwol

Speaking of new to post. I had a tough time finding it, and it wasn't a flea market cheap, so hot dogs for dinner it is for a while. A sargent #10C. For more pictures you'll need to buy the book when it's finally published, so i can get back to Salisbury steak.


----------



## Bertha

Book preorder


----------



## theoldfart

Don, they were used on mitre jacks early on.


----------



## terryR

Congrats, DonW!

DonK, the earliest versions had nothing to do with cleaning up joinery like shooting. But, over time woodworkers noticed how effective the plane was on end grain. No one knows how the name miter plane stuck. Probably a label under a sketch in a book of woodworking?


----------



## DLK

Kevin as I wrote my question and looked at definitions of miter I thought what you say about miter jacks would be a reasonable answer. The OED says thatmiter is a joint made between two pieces of wood or other material at an angle of 90°, such that the line of junction bisects this angle. But if the prevailing wisdom at the the time of their conception was to only use planes sole down, then the only way to miter would be with something like a miter jack.

It actually makes more sense to do that then to use a shooting plane, because it would allow you to approach from different angles, thus avoiding possible tearout. The side clamping also helps in controlling tearout.

Drat now that I understand this, I must have one. Both a jack and a plane.

I did see a miter jack in the wild somewhere in Virginia this summer, I should have bought it. But you can't buy everything.

Terry I think your orders are piling up.


----------



## theoldfart

"But you can't buy everything"

Why?


----------



## DLK

The obvious reason….. I have a wife. No she would not have cared. It was more than I wanted to pay and I had plans for my money, which is tight until our house sells, I retire and move.


----------



## bandit571

Had to sharpen an iron today, before I could try a plane out..









Iron's skew was a bit off….Once I got the batten in place…









The newly sharpened iron seemed to do..ok. Stanley No. 39 3/8"

Needs the nickers refreshed, and maybe a new paint job.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Kevin as I wrote my question and looked at definitions of miter I thought what you say about miter jacks would be a reasonable answer. The OED says thatmiter is a joint made between two pieces of wood or other material at an angle of 90°, such that the line of junction bisects this angle. But if the prevailing wisdom at the the time of their conception was to only use planes sole down, then the only way to miter would be with something like a miter jack.
> 
> It actually makes more sense to do that then to use a shooting plane, because it would allow you to approach from different angles, thus avoiding possible tearout. The side clamping also helps in controlling tearout.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I didn't see your answer until after I went to the OED myself (great minds!) - but to add to what you said, I noticed a definition example of "miter" comes from one of Moxon's books called Mechanick Exercises. So I looked in that book and the very first paragraph of the chapter on joinery he writes (keeping the same crazy capitalization and spelling, sorry):



> By Straight Lines I mean that which in joyner's Language is called a Joint - That is, two Pieces of Wood are Shot (that is planed.).... This they call Shooting of a Joint, or Paring to a Joint, because these two Pieces are with Glew commonly join'd together, either to make a Board broad for enough their purpose, or to a Clamp one piece of Wood to the end of another piece.


I'm sure Schwarz or someone has written about this a lot, but I didn't know until now it wasn't uncommon a few hundred years ago to not just say "shoot an edge" but also say "shoot a board to thickness."

Don't know why they came up with "shoot" to also mean "plane." Maybe sending the plane down is akin to shooting it? Looking up "shoot" didn't help me. I've seen "chute board" but chute isn't a word that wasn't invented in Moxon's day, according to OED.


----------



## ColonelTravis

double post ding dong


----------



## DLK

Interesting, but now I must obtain or at least read Moxon's books. I guess that will await my pending retirement. Still in the middle of Denning's book.


----------



## bandit571

This thing is just about done..









So, while cleaning the place up, came across the sad remains of a Fulton #3416 ( Sargent) and decided to clean and get it working again….









Found a handle for the rear, got rid of phillips headed screws. Dug around in the spares for a chipbreaker and an iron that would fit. 









New steel bolt for the knob, found the Sargent style lever cap. 









Right hand thread wheel. About worn out knurling. There is a steel insert for the threads. 
While I was at it…cleaned a couple pounds of dust and grime off a slightly larger plane..









Stanley Rule & Level Co. No.28 









I think it has the correct iron, the lever cap is correct…









Hndle at one point had been repaired…..seems to work just fine…









At least I can read the logo on the end. Maybe this weekend, I can clean the No. 31 up, as well….?


----------



## BlasterStumps

The little chest is coming along nicely Bandit. Looking good.


----------



## BlasterStumps

You've inspired me Bandit with all your plane rehabs. I have spent the last couple days rehabbing a No 3 and one of my jointers. They take a little work don't they.


----------



## bandit571

Those last two were just under an hour, total….easy when there isn't much rust.

Ever see beech rust?


----------



## DLK

> Those last two were just under an hour, total….easy when there *is not* much rust.
> 
> - bandit571


----------



## bandit571

Ok…Of the five items found today at one yard sale, that I bought…four were handplanes….I turned my nose up at three Handyman planes, though…had better fish to fry…









At $2..I may have overpaid? Same with this next one..









Seems to be a Millers Falls No. 900, also $2..next were two at $2 each….









Irons are 1-5/8" wide, bodies are around 9-1/2" long…









Adjuster for this one rest in a slot in the plane's body. The round head has a pin from the iron. I guess you retract the depth with the bolt, but hammer to advance? Irons are taper. Both seemed to have had the same logo..









"Goldenberg"? Auger Fondu A Garantie? Both use a chipbreaker, but do not have a bolt to hold them together.

Non-adjuster has a break or two to fix ( and a nail to pull..grrrr) Adjustable one just needs one spot glued up. 
Between these, and a $1 Richardson crosscut 8ppi saw…not too bad of a morning…for $9 total?


----------



## BlasterStumps

You did pretty good there Bandit. The 108 is a handy son-a-gun. It will clean up I bet. Might need to give it a shot of paint though.

I found a Millers Falls No 55 block plane this morning. I paid $8. I know too much but I have been looking for a small block to use in chamfering work and preparing dowel stock before pounding them thru my dowel maker. This little 55 is perfect. Looks like an apron plane. It's small enough I think it would fit in a pocket.


----------



## BlasterStumps

sorry, meant 118 not 108 : )


----------



## BlasterStumps

Maybe I didn't pay too much for the 55 after all. Lie Nielsen has a similar size block plane listed for $115 and Lee valley has an apron plane listed for $95. Good grief! 
One thing about it, if this one hits the concrete floor, I'm only out $8 if it breaks. I can live with that.


----------



## bandit571

That 108 turned out to be Shelton! Now cleaned up, sharpened and making shavings. Millers Falls is next on the "docket"..

( Getting bad when I can smell rust at a sale….right when I pull in. )


----------



## onoitsmatt

Here's something you don't see every day. Local auction house periodically stumbles on a rare tool and I can usually get them prett cheap. Hoped these would go for a couple hundred bucks:








But alas, $1100 plus fees is above my pay grade.

I did get this Millers Falls 16 1/2 for $10 though. It's filthy but should clean up.


----------



## Tim457

> Interesting, but now I must obtain or at least read Moxon s books. I guess that will await my pending retirement. Still in the middle of Denning s book.
> 
> - Combo Prof


There are decent free versions of Moxon on the interwebs, you only need to pay for a printed copy with commentary.


----------



## theoldfart

A 16 1/2 with saw for ten? They are going for $400 + on the 'bay.

YOU SUCK! Awesome score Matt, well done.

PS don't tell POA, he'll cry!


----------



## onoitsmatt

Yeah Kevin. But as you can see from the picture, it only cuts backwards. LOL


----------



## theoldfart

Matt, the saw is actually harder to find than the box!


----------



## onoitsmatt

I didn't know the saw would be that rare. What's hard to find about them? It's a 16" Disston (presumably #4). I have two of them, though the other one, Bob S. replated with a 4" deep plate which is about what it had before, but was too pitted to save. I had him file it hybrid for general use. This one looks original and has about 2" depth under the spine. Cool find, BTW, the box has a broken foot, so it's not perfect but otherwise looks complete with all the normally missing bits in place. Sorry to mitre box tangent the plane thread, folks!


----------



## theoldfart

Matt I misspoke about model numbers, I think yours is a 15 1/2 and the saw should be 2 1/2" under the spine. The 16 1/2 has a 2" saw and simpler depth stops. Both saws do not show very often.


----------



## DLK

Whats a shelton number 4 worth?


----------



## bandit571

Or, A Shelton #18?









Even can make a shaving …









Not sure if I can do too much about the sole









Supposed to be a Low Angle block plane…15 degrees….


----------



## DLK

The question was how much should I pay for a shelton number 4? Is say $20 a good deal?


----------



## RWE

I found an immaculate Millers Falls #90 today. Still had the decal on it. I did not pick it up. Had spousal scrutiny. Anyone have an opinion about a #90 smoother for $33.00. It looked almost new. There was some surface rust on the front of the sides and that was the only blemish. I have a restored MF 900 and new in the box Dunlap smoother. Should I go back and pick up the 90? I would appreciate any opinion. I love planes, but I tend to want to use them. So in this case, I would hate to touch it. I would keep it as a display piece.


----------



## bandit571

Don K: depends on which Shelton it is….but $20 isn't too bad.

RWE: Go for it! They were just the economy versions of the No. 9 planes….sometimes known as the "Value Line"


----------



## DLK

Strugging. I don't need it, but I know where I can get it.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have a couple things by Shelton. A No 14 plane and a later model "Socketool" version of the Versatool. I need to rehab the plane. Don, I'm thinking I might have around $20 in the No 14 but it is the model with the more conventional lever cap. I got it in with a couple other planes and there was freight in there to make that $20. This plane looks all the world like a Sargent to me.


----------



## donwilwol

> Whats a shelton number 4 worth?
> 
> - Combo Prof


Not much in my opinion. They are so-so users and collector value is null.


----------



## donwilwol

> I found an immaculate Millers Falls #90 today. Still had the decal on it. I did not pick it up. Had spousal scrutiny. Anyone have an opinion about a #90 smoother for $33.00. It looked almost new. There was some surface rust on the front of the sides and that was the only blemish. I have a restored MF 900 and new in the box Dunlap smoother. Should I go back and pick up the 90? I would appreciate any opinion. I love planes, but I tend to want to use them. So in this case, I would hate to touch it. I would keep it as a display piece.
> 
> - RWE


I did finally answer your email. I would have left it for $33 to. It's not a terrible deal, but not a great one either.


----------



## DLK

> Whats a shelton number 4 worth?
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> Not much in my opinion. They are so-so users and collector value is null.
> 
> - Don W


Perfect. Thanks I won't pursue it. I was hoping you would answer. I was only going to get it for resale.


----------



## donwilwol

> Here s something you don t see every day. Local auction house periodically stumbles on a rare tool and I can usually get them prett cheap. Hoped these would go for a couple hundred bucks:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But alas, $1100 plus fees is above my pay grade.
> 
> - onoitsmatt


As you see, these are quit rare and collectable, especially if they are not broke. Even at $1100 there is probably a little money to be made if they were in good shape. It looks like these don't have the name cast on n the side, which "I think" makes them a little more valuable to.


----------



## onoitsmatt

Hi Don. They looked unbroken to me. The larger one has "Challenge" in the side/along the angled part of the casting. I told my wife they were likely worth a fair bit, but not knowing exactly, I wasn't going to put more than a couple of hundred dollars toward them. She can't believe what they went for. I'm not a collector and primarily either buy tools to use or if there's just too good of a deal to pass up I'll buy them to flip to buy more tools. My wife rolls her eyes. "You are going to buy these tools so you can sell them and buy different tools?" She's right. She's always right.


----------



## theoldfart

Matt, i've flipped a few things for either other tools or services.


----------



## donwilwol

My problem is I buy them to flip them then hate to part with them.


----------



## bigblockyeti

> My problem is I buy them to flip them then hate to part with them.
> 
> - Don W


Story of my life, guess that's why I have three unisaws.


----------



## chrisstef

> Matt, i ve flipped a few things for either other tools or services.
> 
> - theoldfart


Uhhhhh …... services?


----------



## theoldfart

you know


----------



## TheFridge

Oh. We know…

{--••


----------



## bandit571

OK, the one woody from France..I gave up on….don't have the wood nor the motivation to make a whole new body for it…the second woody was too far out….seen much worse. 









Not the best,, this was after flattening the sole. Plane had been run at a skew for way too long…
Got the chipbreaker flattened at the top, and cleaned up. Iron has been sharpened up..









Strange names….each had their own? Wedge?









Have seen better ones….just a little too smooth to grip the metal parts…









Still needs a bit more work, will have to do, for now…


----------



## Bertha

^clean looking lines on that woodie. I rarely fuss with them anymore. I found a nice ECE not too long ago for $10. I'll get to him at some point.


----------



## theoldfart

My first infill
My first mitre plane









I'm doing the happy dance.

I Sorby punch logo iron.


----------



## TheFridge

Niiiice.


----------



## theoldfart

I just opened the package so I'll have better pics tomorrow. The infill is rosewood.


----------



## warrenkicker

Found this on a local on-line auction site. Sale ends next week. What is it worth? Looks like a Birmingham jointer. No idea of the length but it looks long.

Lots of other planes for sale in that auction, 603, Ohio 08, couple of 8's, multiple 45's and a 55, Siegley combination, Sargent 772, K 312 scraper plane, No 72, 112, nice hand-painted thumb D-8, 12 1/2 w/o blade, 10 w/o blade or cap, and a No 239 with the toe broken off.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> you know
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## WayneC

Congratulations Kevin.


----------



## donwilwol

> Found this on a local on-line auction site. Sale ends next week. What is it worth? Looks like a Birmingham jointer. No idea of the length but it looks long.
> 
> Lots of other planes for sale in that auction, 603, Ohio 08, couple of 8 s, multiple 45 s and a 55, Siegley combination, Sargent 772, K 312 scraper plane, No 72, 112, nice hand-painted thumb D-8, 12 1/2 w/o blade, 10 w/o blade or cap, and a No 239 with the toe broken off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - warrenkicker


My first question is what is a Sargent 772?

IMO the Birmingham is probably worth somewhere between $250-$400 depending on condition. Birmingham's seem to be down right now, but the jointers are hard to find. The Grooves that feed the blade forward are almost always broke. If you can get it, it is a cool piece. I won one a little smaller at Donnolly but had to send it back because the condition was completely over stated. Good luck


----------



## warrenkicker

Looks like they misread so misrepresented. It is a Sargent VBM 722.


----------



## terryR

Very cool, Kevin. Looking forward to more photos


----------



## WayneC

Good morning everyone.


----------



## Bertha

Just got this awesome rare transitional. Works awesome!










https://www.etsy.com/listing/527319642/hand-planer-tool-antique-woodworking?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=vintage&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=wood%20chisel&ref=sr_gallery_39

lol


----------



## bandit571

Maybe it would be better like this?









Maybe….









Might be a bit rough to find that lever cap?


----------



## Bertha

Lol. I've got a little liberty bell, too, Bandit. For transitionals, it's probably my favorite


----------



## WayneC

My general inclination is to just stay away from trannys. I'm either all wood body or all metal in general.


----------



## TheFridge

I stay away from trannies as well. I don't like the wood.

Yeah right.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> I stay away from trannies as well. I don t like the wood.
> 
> Yeah right.
> 
> - TheFridge


----------



## Tim457

Is it bad that I think I know who that is? I'll console myself that I don't remember the character's name off the top of my head.


----------



## WayneC

Sulu on Star Trek


----------



## Bertha

I don't stay away from trannies. Transitional planes, however, I never much cared for. Like trannies, I keep a lot of them around, keep them sharp, but rarely work them out. On occasion, I'll work one hard, leaning into it, really working up a sweat, getting those bumps off that aren't supposed to be there.


----------



## WayneC

Then you kill them?


----------



## Bertha

I could never. I think BHog does, though.


----------



## JayT

Now this Instagram video from Konrad Sauer is just cool.


----------



## Bertha

That was incredible. How much does that one run?


----------



## terryR

Awesome video.

The first new car I bought was a 1983 VW Rabbit, diesel engine, no options. $7200 sticker price. I bet that panel plane is more.

just sayin'


----------



## JayT

> That was incredible. How much does that one run?
> 
> - Bertha


On his website it's about halfway down the post of Prototype Planes for Sale. Listed at $4650 Canadian + shipping. A relative bargain compared to a '83 Rabbit and should outlast the VW, too.


----------



## ToddJB

Didn't realize the USD was that different to the CAD.

Hi JayT. Missed you.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Beautiful plane, Kevin. Action shots forthcoming?


----------



## theoldfart

Just cleaned out the garden shed, nap/beer time, dinner with friends, sleep.

Tomorrow sharpen it, test drive, photos!

No makers marks, two owners stamps, W. Gillibrand


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Just cleaned out the garden shed, nap/beer time, dinner with friends, sleep.
> Tomorrow sharpen it, test drive, photos!
> 
> - theoldfart


I wonder about your priorities at times like these.


----------



## theoldfart

Ask my wife that question!


----------



## bandit571

$5 item at a Barn Sale, today…









Maybe I could return it to Sears, sometime?









Has a Millers Falls feel…..they had a bucket full of drills at the sale…..


----------



## Bertha

Does Keen Kutter Dan still come around? I found a Keen Kutter Bowie-type knife with a stag handle. I was going to taunt him with it. I can take pictures if anyone cares.


----------



## Bertha

I can also take pictures of Christef sleeping if anyone cares.


----------



## putty

Yes, take pics, I would like to see it.


----------



## Mosquito

> Just cleaned out the garden shed, nap/beer time, dinner with friends, sleep.
> Tomorrow sharpen it, test drive, photos!
> 
> - theoldfart
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder about your priorities at times like these.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop
Click to expand...

No kidding. What about *THESE* friends… we have needs too ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

> Does Keen Kutter Dan still come around? I found a Keen Kutter Bowie-type knife with a stag handle. I was going to taunt him with it. I can take pictures if anyone cares.
> 
> - Bertha


I haven't seen that Dan around in a while. He did pop in a while back with a brief update, but that was about it


----------



## duckmilk

> Does Keen Kutter Dan still come around? I found a Keen Kutter Bowie-type knife with a stag handle. I was going to taunt him with it. I can take pictures if anyone cares.
> 
> - Bertha


I too would like to see pics…of the knife.

I picked up a Keen Kutter axe a few years ago in really good shape.


----------



## theoldfart

Well i had time today to run the mitre plane cutter over my waterstones. It came out pretty well but another session will make it awesome. Action photo for Smitty using the mitre jack and mitre plane









No sanding necessary









Dead on 45 degrees


----------



## ColonelTravis

awesome


----------



## chrisstef

That is neat ^. Flanel sheets make me sweat. Sorry Al.


----------



## terryR

Nice, Kevin.


----------



## DLK

I like it Kevin. Saving my pennies for one of Terries planes.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Bandit, I have that same drill. I've used it for pilot holes mostly. It works real smooth. I don't know if it is a Millers Falls made drill or not but sure think it might be. 
Mike


----------



## bandit571

Looks like a Millers Falls No.78? Mine just needed a few drops of oil….works great.


----------



## onoitsmatt

Terry, are you planning to do a blog or anything on one of your infill builds? Would love to see ore about your process.

Beautiful planes.


----------



## bandit571

Back on topic…
Got a few block planes cleaned up..









Handsome, ain't they? The one says it is a #110…but has a steel body?









Which would give me a Standard angle and a low angle all steel…









Still have these to work over…getting a few spare cutters, lately..









One even has the Millers Falls logo….Large one is from my Stanley 5-1/2….replaced with a newer one. 









A new, Maple wedge for the better of the two "French" planes….the other one?









Will be spending it's days sitting on a shelf….









I don't think a new wedge would help…much. Have a stack of wood to go through, too…









We'll see what gets made from all of that….


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Matt.

I took the facebook pill earlier this year, so all my posts go there. I'll try to put up a blog, but no promises since I'm such a slow typist.

Now I have two miter planes ready to be peined together. Have ordered a maker's stamp and will wait for it to arrive so I can imprint my name on the bridges before assembly. Bronze/Steel stuffed with Brazilian Ebony, and Brass/Steel stuffed with Wenge.


----------



## onoitsmatt

Thanks, Terry. Funny, that's why I asked. I saw your photos on the fb unplugged page and came here to see if you'd done a blog that included those bonus pics.


----------



## terryR

Matt, search youTube for Bill Carter. He recently uploaded several videos on the build process. That's how I learned.

And, once again, I strongly encourage anyone intrigued by this to give it a try! You don't need prior experience in metal working. You don't need special tools.


----------



## DanKrager

BLASHPHEMY!!! Terry, one ALWAYS needs special tools, maybe even new ones! That's how these beautiful planes you are making will be bought, yes? Aren't there some galoot points deducted here? 

Terry, in spite of the razing I admire the work you're doing. Keep it up, man.

DanK


----------



## onoitsmatt

> BLASHPHEMY!!! Terry, one ALWAYS needs special tools, maybe even new ones!


LOL


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Dan, but really, any plane with a low angle of attack, lots of mass, and a mouth only 0.035" large will do this,










without tearout. It's all about the mouth.


----------



## Bertha

I'll leave that "about the mouth" alone. Stunning shavings. Terry, can you recommend a supplier of stock? I ordered a bunch from McMaster Carr and it was all quite expensive. I don't want to wreck $200 worth of materials on my first flub.

And tools? How am I supposed to make a knurled knob without a mill/lathe? All that filing calls for new files and, of course, rasps for the infill. A surface planer's not a bad idea. I probably want to 3D print the mockup. Crap, I'll have to get a new computer. I'll want the infill flat and even, like only a helical cutter can. Probably want to batch them, so a 20'incher is reasonable. Straight through to the drum sander, which I'll need. And like they say, buy the best tools you can afford.


----------



## JayT

I buy from Online Metals. Best prices I've found so far. For things they don't have, MSC is my second choice. McMaster has lots of odds and ends, but their prices on basic metal stock + shipping isn't competitive.


----------



## terryR

onlinemetals.com for me, too. But, I'm getting 220 Bronze from mcmaster-carr. Dude, what are you making a plane from that costs $200? damascus? so what if you make mistakes on the first attempt; that's only a few dollars. $200 should be enough stock to crank out 3-4 finished planes, and if you don't catch on by then…

I can make you a brass knob for $20. And, my cheapo files from the Borg are working OK so far. But, if you score a surface grinder, we need to talk!


----------



## revrok

I will never be in the league of you crazy aficionados, but I did recently get a gift that I just have to crow about. Talking with a friend at dinner about my love of handtools and his wife stops by a few days ago with this gift:










Pristine body and Rosewood 100% nickel and 21 blades. All that's missing is the long rods and one blade (?) if I remember correctly. I am still a bit stunned. Can't wait to make a set of new boxes for it.


----------



## theoldfart

Tim, that is a good friend! Enjoy exploring all it can do.


----------



## CO_Goose

Tim, That is a GREAT friend!
Nice 45 combo plane, with the red adjuster knob, and the lack of "Stanley" on the bow of the skate, that looks like a Wards Master 45 that was made by Stanley. Works just like the Stanley, and parts are interchangeable. 
Come on over to the "Stanley #45 - 7 forms of fun in 1! - And other combination/moulding planes" for more fun!


----------



## TheFridge

I know a guy with a surfaces grinder and a full set of machine tools. If you're serious terry.


----------



## Mosquito

> Tim, That is a GREAT friend!
> Nice 45 combo plane, with the red adjuster knob, and the lack of "Stanley" on the bow of the skate, that looks like a Wards Master 45 that was made by Stanley. Works just like the Stanley, and parts are interchangeable.
> Come on over to the "Stanley #45 - 7 forms of fun in 1! - And other combination/moulding planes" for more fun!
> 
> - CO_Goose


I was actually going to guess Craftsman since often times the Wards Master planes had Wards Master in gold lettering on the handle. Both had the red cutter adjustment wheel (and depth stop nut)


----------



## revrok

I guess i need to get some more pics so you guys can peg the new baby's lineage!


----------



## Bertha

You're going to have a lot of fun with that plane. Make sure the irons are sharp to avoid the initial frustration. Great gift.


----------



## Bertha

Onlinemetals. Got it. Thanks, guys. Lol, I was looking at lengths that would make 3-4 planes. Thick bronze and 01 adds up quick. I'm kinda like Christef, if I only need 3 inches, I get 12. If I need 6 nuts, I get 20, etc. I bought either foot or foot-1/2 of everything I need from McMaster. Expensive, but a lot of metal.

I wasn't serious about any of that *except *the surface grinder lol. I want one.


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah me too


----------



## Tim457

I don't want a surface grinder, I want a friend to have one that is a short drive away that I can use whenever I want.


----------



## JayT

> I don t want a surface grinder, I want a friend …........................... that I can use whenever I want.
> 
> - Tim


What Fridge heard from that post.

Surface grinder would be awesome to have, space for one would be even better. Until then, I'll just have to use the mill to flatten and work off mill marks with sandpaper on granite, which is still way better than not having a mill.


----------



## DLK

So we all need to move to the same location and jointly buy and stock a metal workshop.


----------



## TheFridge

Giggity!


----------



## chrisstef

> So we all need to move to the same location and jointly buy and stock a metal workshop.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Why do you think Bertha came back around? Thats his bait. Coax ya in with surface grinders, rough sawn cherry, vintage infills and his sassy tongue. Next thing ya know youve moved to appalachia, wear overalls without underpants after taking lotion baths preparing your skin to be worn like a merkin.

I need to learn my 45. Triggylilfugger.


----------



## BlasterStumps

This jointer has the tops of the sides japanned or ? Is it common to see that or can I assume somewhere along it's existence someone painted it


----------



## TheFridge

Below the made in USA looks like the Japanning peeled up and was painted over. The edges look worn through instead of chipped as well.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Okay, thanks Fridge. That confirms what I was thinking. At arm's length it doesn't look too bad but up close, like you said, it looks like it has lost some of the japanning. It's my user jointer so I don't mind that it is a little rough looking but maybe this winter I will get rid of the old blackening and clean it up. One cold dreary winter's day : (


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Why do you think Bertha came back around? Thats his bait. Coax ya in with surface grinders, rough sawn cherry, vintage infills and his sassy tongue. Next thing ya know youve moved to appalachia, wear overalls without underpants after taking lotion baths preparing your skin to be worn like a merkin.
> 
> - chrisstef


Holy crap I had just loaded my loaded truck on my truck and was about to relocate to WBGVa. when all of a sudden I saw this thread and snapped out of it and seriously had no idea I was even doing any of this. Talk about subliminal powers!


----------



## Tim457

Well played Colonel, well played.

Does anybody know what color the background paint on a made in England Stanley #7? I'm assuming yellow, but there's nothing left of it.


----------



## jmartel

> So we all need to move to the same location and jointly buy and stock a metal workshop.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Some places have hobby shops that will have various equipment to use. I've got one on the island I live on. $35/month with a giant woodshop and a metal shop. Surface grinder, 2 lathes, a manual mill, a CNC mill, plasma cutter, etc.

http://bainbridgebarn.org/

I plan on utilizing the metal shop to make an infill plane at some point when I'm less busy.


----------



## BlasterStumps

maybe orange-ish red?


> Does anybody know what color the background paint on a made in England Stanley #7? I m assuming yellow, but there s nothing left of it.
> 
> - Tim


----------



## terryR

Yeah, would love a shared maker's space. With cool power tools.

But, in rural Alabama? no friggin' way. We still don't have cell signal where we live, and I cannot imagine many locals intrigued by work in their spare time.

Maybe a wide open space in the mountains where paying members can show up with a 4-wheeler and shoot anything they like.

^this


----------



## RWE

Terry: I am in Hoover Alabama. I have been following this thread and did a google search for metal coop. I was interested more in handsaws and have begun making some handsaws based on Summerfi's Table Saw (Gent's Saw) to begin with. I did a dovetail saw from a kit, but I wanted to do one from scratch so I have about 4 "Table Saws" in the works.

I would be interested in putting a taper on a saw plate for a panel saw. Anyway, there is a metal working coop that is in Birmingham. Info below:

Where in Rural Alabama are you?

*For more information about the Sons of Vulcan Inc., call 205-475-4843 or email at [email protected]
*
this may be a bust. It is in the middle of the workday, so I have not called yet to see what they have to offer.


----------



## terryR

RWE, I'm about 10 miles from the TN border, near Huntland, TN. I lived in Bham for a few years, and have a bunch of caving friends that live there. That's a bit too far for me to drive,but Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## RWE

I will let you know what I find out. I just called and left a message with Matt.

I hate to reveal this, and you may know of it anyway, but check out the CandleLight Antique Store on exit 361 near Elkmont. There is some fellow that keeps a nice stock of old planes, saws, and other vintage tools there. I picked up a very nice Stanley Bedroock #8, early 1900's, great condition there. I think I picked up a Disston D-23 there as well. Maybe you are the fellow that supplies them?? It is one of the best "tool" Antique Stores that I have come across in the state. He has a vintage #45 in a glass case if it is still there. I have my eye on it. Prices are not too bad, much better than Ebay.


----------



## DLK

> So we all need to move to the same location and jointly buy and stock a metal workshop.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> Some places have hobby shops that will have various equipment to use. I ve got one on the island I live on. $35/month with a giant woodshop and a metal shop. Surface grinder, 2 lathes, a manual mill, a CNC mill, plasma cutter, etc.
> 
> http://bainbridgebarn.org/
> I plan on utilizing the metal shop to make an infill plane at some point when I m less busy.
> 
> - jmartel


You are very lucky.

The Senior center near my retirement home (15 minute 5 block walk) does have a very nice "state of the art" wood shop. I will use it for lathe work if I need to. (Turning seems to be there main interest and they have classes.)

Evergreen commons

I don't know where a metal shop would be that I can use.


----------



## Tim457

Don, I don't know how far your are from Grand Rapids, but the Geek Group there has metal working equipment. There's a CNC lathe and mill there too.


----------



## DLK

It's about 30 miles (40 minutes) from my house. I'll keep it in mind.


----------



## Mr_Pink

It may not qualify as a handplane of your dreams, but my jointer plane is an old Birmingham/Derby "B. Plane" (I think). I haven't seen one like it posted yet.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Looks like a good one Mr_ Pink and an early one too. I've seen Birmingham planes for sale on occasion but don't have any myself.

Very nice jointer. Congrats
Mike


----------



## donwilwol

> It may not qualify as a handplane of your dreams, but my jointer plane is an old Birmingham/Derby "B. Plane" (I think). I haven t seen one like it posted yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mr_Pink


Are you kidding me! NICE!!!


----------



## ADN

Finally received my new Lie Nielsen #9

Ordered it almost a year ago and they told me this was one of the busiest years ever, so it delayed the special orders production….

Do I really need one, well???


----------



## BlasterStumps

Very nice! But I have to ask, where in the sam-dilliwampis did you find a listing for the No 9? I didn't even see it on the LN site.
Mike


> Finally received my new Lie Nielsen #9
> - ADN


----------



## theoldfart

You have to ask LN. They bundle orders and make a batch.


----------



## bobasaurus

Found a weird block plane on the bay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-UNUSUAL-BLOCK-PLANE-COPPER-CAP-IRON-7-INCH-SOLE-WOODWORKING-TOOL/372114096509?hash=item56a3ba817d:g:AKgAAOSw43hZ7mkF


----------



## bobasaurus

And a weird router plane:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/263271413634?rmvSB=true


----------



## ADN

> You have to ask LN. They bundle orders and make a batch.
> 
> - theoldfart


Exactly, and then wait, and wait some more ;-)

Although they might have some now since they just finished a production run….


----------



## TheFridge

Sweet. Good to see you around old boy


----------



## ADN

Thanks Fridge, been sorta out of commission for a while…


----------



## ColonelTravis

Awesome 9. Didn't know LN would do that.
Sorry it took so long but enjoy.


----------



## CL810

Random action shot


----------



## BlasterStumps

What is the No 8 back there on the bench? Is there a chance you would show more of it? I like the smoother, I assume it is a 4-1/2. Nice planes for sure.
Mike


> Random action shot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - CL810


----------



## CL810

Mike, the jointer is a LN #7.









And the smoother is a Bedrock # 604.


----------



## onoitsmatt

I got this little Ibex finger plane this week to shape guitar braces. Has a very slightly convex sole.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Wow! nice, nice. Thanks for sharing the pictures CL 810. 
Mike


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, pretty precarious placement on that 7!


----------



## CL810

LOL Kev, hadn't thought about it but when I look at it now I'm wondering what was I thinking??


----------



## BlasterStumps

Looks like it is built well Matt. First thing I would probably do though with something that small is vacuum it up with some shavings or loose it down thru a dog hole never to be seen again. 
Mike 


> I got this little Ibex finger plane this week to shape guitar braces. Has a very slightly convex sole.
> 
> - onoitsmatt


----------



## DanKrager

Kev beat me to it, Andy. My heart skipped a beat, and even the rubber mat on the floor didn't help my nerves! LOL.

DanK


----------



## ColonelTravis

> LOL Kev, hadn t thought about it but when I look at it now I m wondering what was I thinking??
> 
> - CL810


Few weeks ago I dropped my LN 4 1/2 on the concrete garage floor and all I needed was a new knob, which LN sent for free, which was very nice. But I can verify they make tough tools.


----------



## TheFridge

Ductile iron is a wonderful thing. Worst case is you have to take a file to it.


----------



## Bertha

Blaster, mine would be stuck in the screw of my wagon vise. I've got a little slipper plane maybe half again as big as the Ibex. I always know where to find it. I've always liked those little planes but I don't own any.


----------



## terryR

hell, try making one that small.

I copied a tiny plane from Bill Carter, visible dissembled in the background, and his wedge fell through my dog holes several times. And now it's hard to throw out any piece of nice wood, even a cubic inch!


----------



## Bertha

^lol what'd you use for a blade? Pitch?


----------



## onoitsmatt

Nice plane, Terry!

This little one is still on my kitchen counter. No idea where to put it in the shop where it won't immediately be lost.


----------



## chrisstef

> I ve got a little slipper plane maybe half again as big as the Ibex. I always know where to find it. I ve always liked those little planes but I don t own any.
> 
> - Bertha





> hell, try making one that small.
> 
> - terryR


Al's mom didnt have any problems.


----------



## Bertha

Moulding plane 1



















Had a hanghole that I patched with a dowel, then scrubbed plane funk into it.


----------



## terryR

Sorry, Al, been wasting time all day.

I made the blade from O1. 1/2" wide. 50 degrees, I think.

2nd and 3rd attempts looked much better.


----------



## Bertha

Those are really great. I'm not sure how you're doing it, but they're very cool.


----------



## WayneC

> Those are really great. I m not sure how you re doing it, but they re very cool.
> 
> - Bertha


Bill Carter has a book....


----------



## TheFridge

Isn't bill Carter the tiny tools dude?


----------



## WayneC

He is for wooden planes he is also the metal miter plane dude…

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFCVWocKK9mhejPzopUUbJQ

I think you're thinking of Paul Hamler.


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah you right


----------



## Bertha

^ordered.


----------



## Tim457

Terry, what thickness O1 are you using?


----------



## terryR

For the tiny planes, the O1 was about 1/10" thick. Don't remember exactly.

Bill's book is awesome. You could probably find videos from him free on youTube, I know his wife just posted a bunch on miter plane building.


----------



## Bertha

^his wife sent me a spreadsheet of links but I haven't been able to go through it yet.


----------



## Bertha

Christef, I showed my mom your comment above. After she said, what the hell I'm trying to take a shower, she said "Christef ain't know nothing bout nothing". Later she handed me a small book, not unlike the tiny plane book. This book was called, "Everybody Phallus" and it was a short read. After Rhinos, then great apes, squirrels, chipmunks, even insects, I asked, "where's Christef?" In the appendix, as a footnote, in small font read "Christef". I asked Mom if your were an author, She just shook her head and said no, honey. Authors know sumpin about sumpin.


----------



## DLK

Bill Carter Youtube is fun to watch.

Book has been ordered.


----------



## Bertha

^Don, the exchange rate sucks right now, huh?. I got the CD, whatever it is.


----------



## WayneC

I thought you bought the book. I bought the CD years ago. Interesting information but the format was a bit rough.


----------



## Bertha

^ I bought both. Good cause.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

I love Bills planes and knowledge. If you watch his videos what stands out to me is that he fabricates his pieces with a small tight shop and basic tools, always has.! His main tool that he uses daily is his imagination and resourcefulness .

My take on his channel is that his wife Sarah is behind him to share his knowledge before there is a day when he might not be able and if so I admire her for making it happen.


----------



## Bertha

^not to mention that his planes are the most attractive available, imo. My favorites by far. There are other high level planes (marcou, etc.) but his are classic styles. Closest thing to an antique that you can buy new. That means they're guaranteed to be around to become antiques. For what goes into it, priced low.


----------



## terryR

Bill has been making these lovelys all his life with only hand tools. That's what changed me into a maker. No excuses to wait for major power tools, etc. Just cut the parts out with a hacksaw and file to perfection if you can.

Love it! 

Wish my R shoulder loved it.


----------



## DLK

> ^Don, the exchange rate sucks right now, huh?. I got the CD, whatever it is.
> 
> - Bertha


Probably. I did not pay much attention. I appreciate books more than videos and wanted to support Bill and Sarah.
Sarah is awfully nice, and we exchanged a few e-mails.

But … I do enjoy his youtube videos … they are fun. I only think Paul's are better.

I recently bought the Bill Anderson Moulding planes video and wish I could have bought a book. They just put me to sleep. There are only I think a few times when a video was an aide to the discussion, I think if it was written down it would be more useful to me.


----------



## WayneC

I'm still crying at missing one of his miter planes on eBay. Had it in my cart and was sold when I hit buy. $89.


----------



## DanKrager

A cardio workout with a Bedrock. 48 minutes to do 12 surfaces 11×16 1/2, and that includes about 4 minutes of blade honing. So my time factor for S1S works out to 2.9 minutes per square foot. That's an important number that gets averaged into all the previous S1S hand work times per square foot. All my operations accumulate time factors and those are used to estimate new work that is done by hand. That Bedrock is a real workhorse.

DanK


----------



## Tim457

That's a pretty good workout, Dan. Very nice. If you have a minute, take us through your method/steps you prefer. Outline is fine, no need to spend time on an epistle.


----------



## DanKrager

Tim, I'm not understanding your question. Hand planing is pretty straightforward.

Are you referring to the accumulation of time factors? That's another subject better on another thread or PM.

DanK


----------



## RWE

Dan:

I have stated repeatedly on various forums that I have spent more time refurbing tools lately, than I have spent using them. With that said, what is your opinion about Bedrock planes in general versus conventional Stanley planes?

Like many, I have looked over Patrick Leach's Blood and Gore site countless times when trying to "type" a plane. He thinks that Bedrocks are a bit overrated and that the prices have been driven up because everyone was buying into some of the old Stanley marketing hype.

My favorite plane is a Bedrock #8. It seems to hold its tuning/setup better than the other planes and it just feels smoother and better to me. Maybe I am "caught up in the marketing propaganda" but I like it better than the regular Stanleys.

However, i have only used the #8. I would love to know what you thought about Jacks and Smoothers. I figure you have some real time of use under your belt and your opinion might be better informed from more use.

So, in your opinion, is the Bedrock plane style better?


----------



## DanKrager

I started using a Record (Stanley) #4 on these drawer pieces, and it just didn't feel right. Not enough mass. I have Bailey 7 and 8 but they seemed like overkill, so I settled on the only Bedrock I have, the 605. I use a nearly identical Record Stanley for scrub work, but because of the different nature of the work, a direct comparison is probably not valid. Yes, the Bedrock did a far easier job on this than the #4, but that's not really fair either. 
I tend to believe that I would be hard pressed to tell the difference between the #5 Record and the 605 in a blind test on the same operation. I just like the way the 605 looks. Not on a slope here! 
DanK


----------



## Tim457

No, Dan, I just mean people do it differently, some go straight across first, some at angles. Idle curiosity on how you do it since you just did a good number of them.


----------



## revrok

I realize this question wasn't directed at me, but I'm a curmudgeon and so I'll stick my nose in anyway! I personally have 3 jack planes… 2 Bailey types, One a 5 and another a Craftsman 5C (Miller Falls) and a 605. I refurbished and sharpened each of them to the same condition and find the Baileys to be just as good as my lone Bedrock. I do like the separate mouth adjustment quite a lot, but seldom adjust the mouth so it has limited value especially since the Baileys are actually slightly heavier and I like this as well! Perhaps if I only had one jack I would feel more strongly about the adjustability. I have the Craftsman set up as a scrub and have swapped blades back and forth between the three and really just find them interchangeable. The net effect is that I love both types and have zero preference. My Bedrock was $45, but I would not pay the premium price many request for them. I would probably really enjoy a 608C however as the weight issue would be a benefit and they just look extremely cool.



> Dan:
> 
> I have stated repeatedly on various forums that I have spent more time refurbing tools lately, than I have spent using them. With that said, what is your opinion about Bedrock planes in general versus conventional Stanley planes?
> 
> Like many, I have looked over Patrick Leach s Blood and Gore site countless times when trying to "type" a plane. He thinks that Bedrocks are a bit overrated and that the prices have been driven up because everyone was buying into some of the old Stanley marketing hype.
> 
> My favorite plane is a Bedrock #8. It seems to hold its tuning/setup better than the other planes and it just feels smoother and better to me. Maybe I am "caught up in the marketing propaganda" but I like it better than the regular Stanleys.
> 
> However, i have only used the #8. I would love to know what you thought about Jacks and Smoothers. I figure you have some real time of use under your belt and your opinion might be better informed from more use.
> 
> So, in your opinion, is the Bedrock plane style better?
> 
> - RWE


----------



## JayT

My take on the Bailey vs Bedrock is this:

I personally cannot tell the difference in use between a well tuned Bailey and a well tuned Bedrock. They feel and perform similarly. The frog adjustment is of limited value, as once a frog is set, I never touch it again, so it is a one time savings of a few minutes.

I will say, however, that the Bedrocks I've restored have taken the least amount of time on average to get tuned up correctly. Someone, I don't remember who, posited a theory that because Bedrock's were marketed as the "premium" line, Stanley put their best machinists on those planes and that is the reason for any overall better fit and finish as opposed to an inherent design superiority.


----------



## WayneC

I like the look of them and the feel of the Bedrocks. I would say that they are comparable with good bailey types that are fully featured (nominally Type 10-15 or 16) Before type 10 no frog adjustment and as you go earlier you are heading into collectable plane territory. Also, if you can find them under their value, they are a good buy. I originally standardized on type 11 and moved to square side Bedrocks. This year I completed a full set after about 10 years of buying them here and there.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> No, Dan, I just mean people do it differently, some go straight across first, some at angles. Idle curiosity on how you do it since you just did a good number of them.
> 
> - Tim


I think Tim just wants to know about technique vs. plane differences. I plane all lumber by hand, so I although I know what Dan does (in general) I may or may not do it the same way. I try to eliminate a lot of hand work with my bandsaw. But before that I almost always have to flatten a face first and then square an edge to that face, so I find the side with the least amount of problems and start taking down the high spots. I do this by eye, winding sticks, putting it on a cast iron table and seeing if it wobbles, etc.

The best way I've found for flattening a board by hand is to go diagonally down the board one direction. I either use a scrub or a toothed blade LA Jack or sometimes I use both depending on the wood. Turn the board around (or turn me around) and go diagonally the other direction, then straight up from L to R and R to L. I might have to do this several times depending on how many high spots there are. I make sure the boards are a little more wide than I want because a scrub or toothed blade can take off edge chunks when you push it over the side of a board.

Then I may flatten that mess out with my 8 or a 6, maybe a LA Jack with a normal blade (but tearout is risky with it so not often). Then I go to a smoother.

So when I get one side flat, I square an edge. Then I go to my bandsaw and resaw close to final thickness. The part I saw off is typically the most warped side, which is why I use my bandsaw - just lop it off fast. Then I smooth that out and smooth the other edge. Then I check everything religiously for squareness. Sometimes I find it easier to use a LA block to flatten out one side of an edge that's raised. It's not always easy to balance a larger bench plane the whole way down the edge of a board. It easier for that when the edge is already flat and, say, you're taking the width down to a scribe line. But getting it flat in the first place is what matters.

Then I'm ticked off I don't have a power planer. Anyway, for me to flatten a board by hand it's a 3-4 plane operation. I've never really timed myself on boards. After I'm done I always think that it didn't take as long as I thought it would.


----------



## CL810

Does anyone know why Lie-Nielsen used the Bedrock design for his planes?


----------



## DanKrager

Think I understand Tim's question like a grownup now. Thank you CT.

These are utility drawer ends for recycle temp storage, so I only wanted to remove the saw mill's coarse planer marks. They were pretty flat and I wasn't trying to flatten them, so I just went with the grain maintaining a comfortable skew (maybe 30°). One pass, move over next pass across the board and back. If I were putting a finish on these, there might be slight plane marks from the minimal camber at the corners.

CT describes "my" flattening technique pretty well. I don't have a toothed blade, so scrub starts. I don't have so many planes, so use maybe 2 or 3 at the most. The smaller planes seem harder to get a square edge by "feel" than the giant ones for me. I've been known to fall back on the 95 to touch up an edge out of square.

DanK


----------



## revrok

I do think that the BedRock is the most adjustable design with the frog/mouth adjustment. I just don't think it is really that different in performance except for the pretty touches! Lie Nielsen's planes are far heavier castings with a better casting process and high tolerance machining than anything Stanley ever made. In other words the LN is "sort of" a BedRock design. It takes a lot of fettling to get my Baileys OR my BedRock to do what an LN will do out of the box.



> Does anyone know why Lie-Nielsen used the Bedrock design for his planes?
> 
> - CL810


----------



## TheFridge

I thought TLN bought everything from independence (?) and continued it. Good question.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Does anyone know why Lie-Nielsen used the Bedrock design for his planes?
> 
> - CL810


I've never asked him about it but I'd like to. My guesses:

1.) Because he could (no patent conflict).
2.) Because they were so well made and no one else was producing high-quality hand tools in 1981 or whenever he started. 
3.) Because Mr. L-N didn't originally plan his life as a toolmaker, I think he majored in English in college? He did what most everyone else would do and copy what was already made. I know he was self-taught with making metal stuff.
4.) Because Bedrocks were perceived as the superior plane in the Stanley line, I'm sure he wanted to keep that idea of exclusivity. I only own a couple Bedrocks and really like them. Are they seriously "better" than a normal Stanley? To me, not in performance but I think the Bedrock frog design is superior but how many times do you need to move your freaking frog? Once per lifetime? Actually, I think a good question is: Why did Stanley come out with Bedrocks in the first place?

Lee Valley started making planes after L-N, I'm sure they thought they had to go a different route. Then again, Woodriver pretty much went Full Lazy and no one drove them out of business.


----------



## donwilwol

> Does anyone know why Lie-Nielsen used the Bedrock design for his planes?
> 
> - CL810


My guess is because Stanley already did the marketing and people still believe the hype today.

What's interesting is if you start to reverse engineer the planes from 100 years ago, Sargent planes are the only not ones to come very close to modern day LN spec's. Even 100 years ago it was as much about marketing as it was producing a quality product.


----------



## WOODLAND

Question I picked up on some antique Standley planes. All in fine condition only over the years of setting in storage they are dirty and have a buildup of old oil on them. Question is if you take these apart and refinish them by sand down the handles and knobs and adding a light coat of wax. Steel-wool the metal to make it look new again does that decrease the value of planes or help to increase it. I want to sell these so do I leave as is or refinish to get the highest value?


----------



## JayT

Generally, you will get more for planes if they are bright, shiny and ready to use. Unless they are very rare, there isn't any historical value to worry about.

Best thing I would recommend is to start as minimally invasive as possible and evaluate at each step. I use diluted Simple Green to clean and degrease. In several cases, a good cleaning was all a plane needed to look great. If, after the cleaning, there is still more that needs done to have them looking their best, then proceed to a slightly more invasive process, such as sanding or steel wool.


----------



## WayneC

Pictures of the planes would help in assessing them and providing advise.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jenny has asked here and on a separate post, getting pretty consistent answers in both locations.


----------



## TheFridge

More than likely it's a user and not collectible. For a user, do whatever you want to it.

Complete and with proper parts can go a long way as well.

If you're going to put in the work, make sure to do it properly or you kill some value. Please do not spray clear lacquer over the whole thing


----------



## WOODLAND

There are others in about same condition as these.


----------



## DLK

You can cleanup those knobs and handles with paste wax and steel wool. No need to sand and refinish them. If I were reselling them I might not do any more, then a light cleaning. They look pretty good to me.


----------



## WayneC

Definitely do not sand them.


----------



## ColonelTravis

>


What's up with the knob on this one? Is that how they were made or is it a custom?


----------



## theoldfart

It's an 85 with tilting knob and tote.

Take a peak


----------



## WayneC

I thought it was 4 $100 bills sitting there.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Thank you - shows my laziness. Should have known better.


----------



## WOODLAND

> What s up with the knob on this one? Is that how they were made or is it a custom?
> 
> It has the Pivoting Handle Feature
> 
> - ColonelTravis


----------



## WOODLAND

Thank you everyone for your advise it is sincerely appreciated.

Jenny


----------



## revrok

Ok, question for you Sargent aficionados (Don?) and my latest unshared acquisition. I am trying to type this Sargent 424? 5424? 424C VBM? It is a 24 inch corrugated jointer and I think the frog is a type 2 but the blade and the lever cap say VBM, color me confused. I paid $45 for it and am feeling pretty good about that. I have to say the Frog and the thickness of the blade are extremely impressive, yet it is lighter than my Stanley 7C. 













































A little help? Looked at http://timetestedtools.net/sargent-400-series-bench-plane-type-study/ and could not say for certain.


----------



## donwilwol

It's a type 4 (4a to be exact) which is a VBM. IMO it's one of the best user types. Most of those were well tuned before leaving the factory. We did some test on several brands, and these planes were the only oned that came very close to LN specifications.


----------



## revrok

Thank you Don, there is something so viscerally satisfying about turning a 100 year old tool into a user. We just moved and so my shop is literally in boxes and wrapped in plastic (as you can see in the photos), but I can't wait to clean her up and put her to work!



> It s a type 4 (4a to be exact) which is a VBM. IMO it s one of the best user types. Most of those were well tuned before leaving the factory. We did some test on several brands, and these planes were the only oned that came very close to LN specifications.
> 
> - Don W


----------



## terryR

New No.31 Dovetailed Steel Thumb plane.










A bit over 4" long, and the iron is 1" wide. African Blackwood for the infill.










The original Norris was my inspiration,


----------



## donwilwol

Terry, the planes you have been extraordinary!


----------



## DonBroussard

Simply beautiful, Terry! Your work is outstanding!


----------



## onoitsmatt

I want to be Terry when I grow up.


----------



## theoldfart

^ that would be nice but I don't want to grow up!


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

A Beauty !! I want to hold it !


----------



## revrok

Wow, gorgeous and extremely useful. Can I sneak that into my apron?



> New No.31 Dovetailed Steel Thumb plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A bit over 4" long, and the iron is 1" wide. African Blackwood for the infill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The original Norris was my inspiration,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - terryR


----------



## bandit571

Goldenberg all cleaned up









New Maple wedge. This was the better of the two french planes I picked a few weeks ago….


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Terry, the planes you have been extraordinary!
> 
> - Don W


Agree, you have a real talent. Really impressed.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> New No.31 Dovetailed Steel Thumb plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A bit over 4" long, and the iron is 1" wide. African Blackwood for the infill.
> 
> - terryR


Gawd, that's a beauty…


----------



## terryR

Thanks, guys. A friend from Atlanta is putting the finishing touches on a website, and I'll place these for sale there.


----------



## ColonelTravis

120% discount for LJ members, correct?


----------



## Just_Iain

> 120% discount for LJ members, correct?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


There will of course be 'weightings' on the number of posted positive comments to his work.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I don't think there's much more wiggle room to negotiate when he's paying us to take them, Ian. ;-)


----------



## terryR

Yes, this one is on sale.










If anyone wants to have a go at the 2 rear through-tenons. It's all laid out.


----------



## Ajs73

Picked up this A Howland Co NY
(That's what iron says anyway)
along with a Stanley A5 the other
day at auction for $15. No old tool
lovers present, lucky me.


----------



## DLK

> Those are really great. I m not sure how you re doing it, but they re very cool.
> 
> - Bertha
> 
> Bill Carter has a book....
> 
> - WayneC


My copy of Carter's book arrived today. Nice read. Lots of pictures. A pleasure to be able to support Bill.

Question: The very first sentence Bill writes is: Boxwood is the ideal timber for plane making. Why? What properties does boxwood have that makes it ideal? What are other good choices?


----------



## terryR

Extremely tight grain. Boxwood is highly prized for how wonderfully it carves, never tearing out like an exotic. Even tiny details can be carved in the stuff. And it's very stable. Lots of toolmakers love the stuff.










Also use: English Beech, Hard Maple, nearly any Rosewood or densly-grained wood. Hornbeam for you.


----------



## terryR

probably more suitable for this thread, the Ohio No. 110 center wheel plow plane, in Boxwood










But, Don, forget trying to buy this wood, it's very expensive. Unless you are trying to re-create a vintage tool or just want to experience the boxwood, we have lots of stuff in USA that will make a fine plane.


----------



## DLK

Thanks terry. I am trying to determine what domestic wood I should use.


----------



## donwilwol

Thankful for author's proof.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I've never seen a refernece guide before!


----------



## donwilwol

In a 100 years it'll be worth a fortune.


----------



## theoldfart

When you sign it Don, misspell your name. That should raise the hysterical value enormously!


----------



## TheFridge

Very nice don.


----------



## summerfi

Congrats Don. Very nice indeed.


----------



## chrisstef

Congrats yoda.


----------



## DLK

Don I have a few stories of catching publisher errors. For example I have the distinction of authoring a journal article that was apparently accepted befor it was received. I now hold my colleagues to a higher standard. My advice is check everything and even if you there will still be mistakes.


----------



## donald_wa

Can't wait for the book Don.
On the question of suitable wood for planes, I have several molding planes in need of new boxing. Any suggestions.


----------



## JADobson

After I finished my master's thesis (proofread by myself countless times, my wife, my supervisor, committee members, and a friend) I gave a copy to my dad. He opened it and within 10 seconds said "I found a typo."


----------



## DLK

The infinite descending sequence of natural numbers is the number of typos found in each revision of a master's thesis.


----------



## ColonelTravis

I've been a writer most my entire professional life, congrats Don. You are a published author. Many say they want to do that but never follow through. Big congrats.


----------



## Just_Iain

I'll add my congratulations as well.


----------



## WayneC

Future best seller.


----------



## BillWhite

Don, is that the book that you and Robert were prepping?
Bill


----------



## donwilwol

> Don, is that the book that you and Robert were prepping?
> Bill
> 
> - Bill White


No, it's not. This is a different book. The other one is still a ways out.


----------



## FoundSheep

Awesome Don, congratulations!


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

That is a Fine accomplishment Don. Congrats !


----------



## JustplaneJeff

Look forward to seeing the new book, congrats!


----------



## ADN

Certainly something to be proud of, plus it provides extremely valuable information….

Congrats


----------



## theoldfart

A plane of my dreams just arrived.










A Howland, roughly 1840 to 1850 ish. Made in Huntington MA.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photo…









Stanley No. 012-004….a #4c from England..









I MIGHT have it sharp enough..









Might be able to make some use out of it..









Maybe


----------



## Tim457

Very cool Kevin. The wooden thumb screws to hold the arms is something I haven't seen.


----------



## theoldfart

Tim, that style is called a Yankee plow.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice, Kevin! Action shots, pls.

EDIT: It evolved into a salvage operation, Todd. I expect demo over the next six months or so.


----------



## theoldfart

Brain fart! The plow is M Copeland.


----------



## theoldfart

A lot of sharpening in my future, freehand no less!


----------



## Boatman53

Kevin, do you need a 1/4" blade for that? I have a Butcher blade with no plane. Not sure it would fit but might be worth a try if you need a 1/4".
Jim


----------



## BillWhite

Butcher is no junk for sure. Hope it will work for you.
Bill


----------



## theoldfart

Jim, I could use the 1/4" cutter. I got seven un matched cutters that Josh threw in with the plane but not the 1/4". Let me know what you want for it.

Sharpened the 1/8" and it worked well. The cutter is an I Sorby.









First time free handing and it came out surprisingly well.

The workmanship is really good. Copelands shop was one town over from where we currently live. He worked 1822 to 1850.


----------



## terryR

Good stuff, Kevin.


----------



## donwilwol

Excellent Kevin.


----------



## bobasaurus

Terry, your work is ridiculously nice as usual.

I picked up my first infill at an auction today, I'm really excited. It seems to have a cast body with an infill toe piece and knob, but a regular tote in the back (dovetailed into the cast body). There are no makers marks anywhere on the plane body, though the iron and breaker are marked. Can anyone identify it? Here are pics from the listing:



















Here is a close-up of the iron's stamp:










And the chipbreaker:










I'll try to get more pics of it tomorrow and start the restoration.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Awesome addition, Allen.
I don't own any infills, never even used one. Do they have more mass than, say, a comparable sized Stanley? Other than looks, is there a reason for the infilling?


----------



## bobasaurus

> Awesome addition, Allen.
> I don t own any infills, never even used one. Do they have more mass than, say, a comparable sized Stanley? Other than looks, is there a reason for the infilling?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Thanks Travis. It's gotta be several times the weight of an equivalent Stanley, it's a heavy bugger. The tote was a bit loose, I was actually able to slide the tote out of the dovetail. I'll clean up the crusty old hide glue and glue on some shims to tighten it up.


----------



## donwilwol

That's a great looking infill Allan. Infills are so hard to find in the wild.


----------



## terryR

Congrats, Allen!

Hard to tell the maker, it's not an abvious design that I recognize. Honestly, there are so many very good shop-made infills out there which never received a maker's mark. Some are even nicer than name brands!


----------



## Mosquito

In the process of putting some tools away, for whatever reason I decided to sharpen the irons up on this guy and give it a go. #48 that came with a #55, a bunch of boxes of #45 irons, and 2 #45s. Seems to work out pretty well.


----------



## Handtooler

WOW! Super save.


----------



## DanKrager

TOF, is it a camera bend or is the metal foot on the Copeland not parallel to the fence? ???

DanK


----------



## TheFridge

I'm super jelly bob.


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, bad camera work.


----------



## bobasaurus

Mos, mostly thanks to you I now have two partial 45's and a nearly complete 55. Still have yet to use them, gotta find a good project.


----------



## Mosquito

haha make a box for 'em


----------



## theoldfart

OK Krager, you win. We were out and about when I read your question and I assumed it was lousy camera angle. But NO, there is an angle. It's from wear on the fence The center of the fence (long dimension) is worn so a planing of the plane is in order. I need to talk to Josh at Hyperkitten about the historical value of the plane before I do surgery!


----------



## RWE

Mos:

LOL

I now have two 45's and one 1080 thanks to your thread. All I seem to be doing is sharpening one cutter after another for the last several weeks. The funny thing is I am trying to figure out a project to use them on and I figured I would make a box for them. I will post pictures of the new 45, earlier model with the floral motif. I am in the process of getting it cleaned up now.


----------



## Mosquito

I usually just sharpen the irons before I use them. There are a number of irons I haven't actually sharpened yet, but that's ok because that means I haven't spend the time sharpening an iron I don't use either


----------



## RWE

It wasn't all bad. I had taken my sharpening routine to a different direction. I picked up a Veritas straight grinding jig and worked out how to use it on my Wolverine tool rest (former lifetime, I turned a bit). So I got to exercise that and do as close to a hollow grind as you can get with an 8 inch wheel and then to diamond plates. I had always been reluctant to grind any plane blades and would labor over them on coarse sandpaper mounted on stone. This is much better. So, now I have about 15 or so cutters that allowed me to perfect that technique. Good results.

So if anyone asks, Veritas straight grinding jig, Veritas MK Mark II sharpening jig (this is the best jig ever), Duosharp (Extra Coarse, Coarse) and (Fine, Extra Fine). I know waterstones are good, but I like my diamond plates pretty well. Also, honing, 30 strokes per Paul Sellers.


----------



## bobasaurus

> It wasn t all bad. I had taken my sharpening routine to a different direction. I picked up a Veritas straight grinding jig and worked out how to use it on my Wolverine tool rest (former lifetime, I turned a bit). So I got to exercise that and do as close to a hollow grind as you can get with an 8 inch wheel and then to diamond plates. I had always been reluctant to grind any plane blades and would labor over them on coarse sandpaper mounted on stone. This is much better. So, now I have about 15 or so cutters that allowed me to perfect that technique. Good results.
> 
> So if anyone asks, Veritas straight grinding jig, Veritas MK Mark II sharpening jig (this is the best jig ever), Duosharp (Extra Coarse, Coarse) and (Fine, Extra Fine). I know waterstones are good, but I like my diamond plates pretty well. Also, honing, 30 strokes per Paul Sellers.
> 
> - RWE


Are you hollowing the flat back or the bevel?


----------



## RWE

On the cutters and on plane blades, I flatten the back. This is the biggest issue. You never know how bad the flats on the back are going to be. If you have not heard of the "ruler trick", you might google that and try that if you backs are pretty bad, with hollows and curves. The "trick" lets you elevate the cutter/blade a bit so that you flatten only the cutting line.

The hollow grind is just about impossible with an 8 inch wheel, but would work with a 6 inch. With my 8 inch wheel, I come back to being almost a completely flat bevel when I finish. I use the Veritas straight grinding jig to blunt and square the cutter edge. Set that up and do all of the cutters with the set up, then adjust for the bevel grind. (note, I choose not to "blunt and square" the bead cutters, since that would reduce your bead size, but i did sharpen the two sides. They are so small that is is easy to do with the MKII, picked up a slip stone at Woodcraft for the bead contours)

Then I grind it with the straight grinding jib pivoting on top of the Wolverine platform. Put Sharpie on the bevel, set the pivot point of the straight grinding jig so that the grinding wheel is hitting in the center of the bevel or away from the edge and above center. Grind till you get real close to the edge. Quench often since the thinner edge heats up quickly.

I set up the projection of the cutter out of the straight grinding jig to be about one inch. That way, once I set up for one cutter, I can cut the rest on the same setting (grinding platform and straight grinding jig) by making sure they project up one inch when I insert them. I measure off of my square's ruler width.

You can have imperfections in your grind. Once you put the cutter in the MK Mark II, if you are close, it is short work. As soon as you raise a burr on the extra coarse sandpaper or diamond, move to the next finer media and progress. The MKII is so precise, it will square up your edge if you are off a little, it will flatten a perfect bevel for you. If you have the 6 inch grinder, you will probably have some hollow in the bevel. Again, with 8 inches it comes out flat for me. I put Sharpie on it when I start the MKII process and that really shows you how much work you have to do.


----------



## RWE

I should also mention, that it occurred to me the whole "flat back" issue is probably not of great concern with a 45 cutter since it rides on the two skates and the center is free. So I would not go crazy on that. Now on a conventional plane, go crazy and use the ruler trick for bad backs.


----------



## bandit571

> I should also mention, that it occurred to me the whole "flat back" issue is probably not of great concern with a 45 cutter since it rides on the two skates and the center is free. So I would not go crazy on that. Now on a conventional plane, go crazy and use the ruler trick for bad backs.
> 
> - RWE


BTW: cutters run bevel down…....just like a normal plane.


----------



## RWE

Do what I mean, not what I say. I think we are in the question of what is the "back". I take the probably incorrect position that the back is the side that is opposite the bevel side. I saw a discussion about this, and my "back" is technically the "front" in this case. Just interpret my words and know that I mean well. LOL

So flattening the back, other than the leading edge, is probably not as important on a 45 IMHO. I don't like the "ruler trick" myself and flatten away, but sometimes it is necessary. Most of the cutters are so narrow, it is not too hard to flatten them.


----------



## bobasaurus

Interesting ebay plane:


----------



## terryR

^Chariot plane.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I've grown quite fond of my Shelton No. 118 block plane clone, so I got an original off ebay.










Had to flatten the sole (it was noticeably bad) but now works great. It's a maligned tool in B&G, but I'd suggest looking past that and trying one for yourself. Great for the tool tote.


----------



## bobasaurus

That's a neat block plane, Smitty.

I've actually been doing some planing recently, it's been a while… had to reacquaint myself with the sharpening and setup process. A few chipbreakers ended up needing tuning, but I got it figured out well now. I did a glue up of some ash and planed it flat to make the seam mostly invisible:










I have one plane that every time I fully tighten the chipbreaker screw, the chipbreaker retracts away from the edge. It's pretty annoying, can't figure out how to completely stop it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Allen, adding bend to the curvature of the offending Breaker didn't help?

Sharpened.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> I have one plane that every time I fully tighten the chipbreaker screw, the chipbreaker retracts away from the edge. It s pretty annoying, can t figure out how to completely stop it.
> 
> - bobasaurus


Get a Hock! I love vintage but there's one thing I cannot stand in old Stanley planes and that's the chipbreaker. To me, they're too wimpy. I've changed all mine out. Got sick of trying to refine them.


----------



## bandit571

Might have this one about tuned up









Maybe..









It can give the 1455 a break…









And, just because I use one of these…









Millers Falls No. 8


----------



## terryR




----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Hey, a Cordovan! That probably has a craptacular feel to you, Terry, after being immersed in infill heaven for the past several months.


----------



## TheFridge

Friend of mines. Daddy likes.


----------



## terryR

No harsh judgements here, Smitty. I love tools! Even a dull file has its use.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Word!

The contributors to liking the 118 include the low angle, side holes for grippiness, and the distance between lever cap 'hump' and front pedestal being just right for the hand. And as long as it's rightly sharp, and is waxed on the sole, it's a good performer.


----------



## Slyy

Not everyone is on the BookFace, but here was one posted about recently. 









Fridge, that one is pretty for sure!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ What forum on FB, Jake? Love those things…


----------



## Just_Iain

Newest toy courtesy of Doc W and TimeTestedTools. It appears to be from 1910 to 1918 as it has what I believe is a Type 11 Blade in a Stanley #2.

And as a local Clothier states in the radio advertising: "It fits!" Room for a comfortable 3 finger grip.


----------



## theoldfart

..and pre drilled for a fence! When I use my #3 I don't grip the handle but rather let it cradle between my thumb and fingers. Looks like the #2 would work for my style as well. Looking forward to some pics with shavings Ian.


----------



## bandit571

Says it is a Fulton..









Might be a No. 3416?


----------



## Slyy

Smitty, it's in the "Unplugged Woodworkers" group


----------



## Just_Iain

> ..and pre drilled for a fence! When I use my #3 I don t grip the handle but rather let it cradle between my thumb and fingers. Looks like the #2 would work for my style as well. Looking forward to some pics with shavings Ian.
> 
> - theoldfart


It might be the weekend before I can pull that off as dentist tomorrow and it means digging the workmate out of the pantry. Ah, the joy of living in a two story apartment with no spare space. Plus a Stanley #80 to cleanup and test that arrived this week. So we'll see what I can photograph.


----------



## Bertha

> ..and pre drilled for a fence! When I use my #3 I don t grip the handle but rather let it cradle between my thumb and fingers. Looks like the #2 would work for my style as well. Looking forward to some pics with shavings Ian.
> 
> - theoldfart


That made me think…I'm not sure I really "grip" planes either. I always put my index finger on the frog like you'd index a pistol. I think I pull back with the front knob. Weird how I never thought about that before. I do the same thing with saws, now that I think about it. One of many things I've been doing wrong all my life.


----------



## TheFridge

I love a #1 but it is an uncomfortable bastard.


----------



## theoldfart

Al, same style when using my 405(45 in 'Merkin). Open handed push with the right hand and sideways pressure on the fence with the left. Gripping it tends to stear the plane at a bad angle.


----------



## Bertha

Fart, I always use a complete firm grip with a merkin.


----------



## theoldfart

I'm sure you do Al!


----------



## Bertha

Hey guys, two quick questions:

1) what radius are you cambering your scrubs at? 
2) does anyone have all 3: Stanley 40, LV and LN?

Thanks!


----------



## bandit571

Harbor Freight Windsor #33, 3" radius…..


----------



## ColonelTravis

> 2) does anyone have all 3: Stanley 40, LV and LN?


As a proud owner of a 40 1/2 I am offended, triggered and re-offended that you have not considered a 4th! I had to get a blade made for mine by the guy in AZ, I feel bad I can't remember his name. Makes a lot of reproduction parts. Let me look this up. Feel like an idiot.

St. James Bay Tool Co.

I'm guessing he made his to a 3" radius, never closely inspected it. Kept it just as it came to me.


----------



## TheFridge

LN. Whatev it came with. Will reduce it a hair one day.


----------



## Mosquito

Anyone interested in a wooden molding plane? I bought it new a couple years ago from a plane maker in Milwaukee. 
It seems to work ok, but could use a sharpening. I haven't really used it as much as I thought I would, and moving shops so just as good a time to clean shop as any. I paid $100 for it, and that's all I'd want to get out of it. Buy pays shipping.


----------



## Bertha

Thanks, guys. I went with the boring 3 inch. 
Mos, that's a nice plane for a good price. I just can't think of when I'd make that moulding.Plus, I could fit 3 more planes on my shelf with the space that fat ass would take up. Beautiful work, though.Keep on selling. I'm interested in basically everything lol.

Col, indeed. I don't own a Stanley 40-1/2, which is why I've been looking. I've got to plane a huge raw slab for my fiance', so I can justify buying a new tool (you know how this works). I don't own any LV planes and they are heavier than the LN,. The vintage Stanleys are overpriced currently and I don't have the energy for a rehab. I pulled out my 40 and it was from the old days, with little time restraints. I had shaped a new tote, turned a new knob, and japanned it lol. The blade looks like $hit, though I'm sure I was proud of it at the time.


----------



## DLK

So, Mos I am curious. What made you buy it in the first place? What were you going to do with it?


----------



## Mosquito

I bought it because I wanted wooden molding planes, and was going to use it for things like poster/picture frames, and some moldings, just haven't really used it much yet. Also that most stock I use is 3/4", and this plane requires thicker.

Plus, $100 was quite cheap for a new molding plane.


----------



## DLK

I only ask because I am now restoring the molding planes I have collected. I've never paid more than $30 for one.
Most I have I got for under $15 each. Of course they are not pristine new like the one you have. And the make is quite justified in selling it for $100.


----------



## woodcox

> I love a #1 but it is an uncomfortable bastard.
> 
> - TheFridge


Hahaha! I'm sooo going to try this! With a late model 101 of course. I felt bad looking at the early donors.

"Poor man's no.1"


----------



## TheFridge

Had a buddy send me that listing because I asked him about finding me a crappy #1 to infill and modify to make it comfortable and this was what he referred me to. Interesting.


----------



## theoldfart

I posted a plow plane earlier 









It included a collection of various cutters by different manufacturers. In addition Boatman53 sent me a 1/4" iron to fill out the set. The drawback to to having mis matched cutters is many of them will require a new wedge since their side profiles are different. A few days ago this set became available. It was made by Providence Tool Co. and it so happens my research found Providence was the supplier of irons to M Copeland. They fit perfectly!



















If any one is in need of plow irons please PM me.


----------



## Mosquito

That's awesome Kevin. The irons is the toughest part of a wooden plough. I wanted to make my own, but the irons was the hard part to come by


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, I have to thank Patrick Leach for putting the plow and cutters together. Apparently he bought the the correspondence files of the Providence Tool Co. around 1996, they covered something like 1820's to 1860's. He put a some up on the Old Tool BB. Thats where i found my information.

Take a peak


----------



## RabidAlien

Just found this site, lookin forward to soaking up some knowledge! I inherited a handful of planes from my wife's grandfather (he's still with us, just told me to take his tools…"I'll know where they are if I ever need 'em"...he's 91 now, wheelchair bound, and no longer able to renovate houses, unfortunately) along with a bunch of other stuff. They've been sitting around in sheds and attics and garages for years, any thoughts on how to clean em up and get them back into working order where they belong?

(disregard the cluttered workbench…its been cleaned up and reorganized since this pic, extra shelves added…had to make room when I picked up a scroll-saw at a yard sale and found tires for the old B&D band saw….its now a usable workbench again


----------



## summerfi

Cool stuff Kevin. Congrats on that find.


----------



## theoldfart

Edit: I guess this is a case of bad cross posting! SHB Saw dream thread.

Another saw pic and a family shot.
12 PPI









A family shot


----------



## revrok

OF- I'm on both… works for me! Lookin great! Rabid- Nice score, I have a "grandpa" notification for tools and antiques on Craigslist!


----------



## bobasaurus

Kevin, what is that neat-looking infill miter plane on the bench? Got any more pics?

Rabid, check out DonW's website for good restoration information:

http://www.timetestedtools.net/category/hand-planes/hand-plane-restoration-help/

You can clean the gunk with any household cleaner and a rag, then find a way to de-rust. This can be done by electrolysis, acid bath, wire wheel, or abrasion (sand paper). Immediately oil/wax parts after de-rusting to prevent further rust.

Next you should flatten the plane's sole, frog face, frog mating area, bed mating area where the frog sits, chipbreaker mating surfaces, and iron back. Sandpaper on granite or flat cast iron tool table works well for this.

Finally, sharpen the blade and get it set for fine shavings.


----------



## theoldfart

Allen, it's unmarked but the iron is an I Sorby with the Punch logo


----------



## bobasaurus

That's a beauty. Ebony infill? And is that a metal lever cap of sorts above the wedge?


----------



## theoldfart

Allen, I think its rosewood and the cap is rosewood as well!


----------



## RabidAlien

> Kevin, what is that neat-looking infill miter plane on the bench? Got any more pics?
> 
> Rabid, check out DonW s website for good restoration information:
> 
> http://www.timetestedtools.net/category/hand-planes/hand-plane-restoration-help/
> 
> You can clean the gunk with any household cleaner and a rag, then find a way to de-rust. This can be done by electrolysis, acid bath, wire wheel, or abrasion (sand paper). Immediately oil/wax parts after de-rusting to prevent further rust.
> 
> Next you should flatten the plane s sole, frog face, frog mating area, bed mating area where the frog sits, chipbreaker mating surfaces, and iron back. Sandpaper on granite or flat cast iron tool table works well for this.
> 
> Finally, sharpen the blade and get it set for fine shavings.
> 
> - bobasaurus


Thank you sir! I disassembled (somewhat) most of them, didn't want to start stripping screws or anything but figured out how to remove the blades at least, trying to find models/serials/watermarks, etc. Most are cheap Sears buys, probably when someone broke one and needed a replacement quick. One or two are older and higher quality. Wife's grandfather told me he picked up more of his tool collection from people leaving things behind on a job site than stuff he bought, so who knows how long they were used before, or how long they were left in the weather? Heh. None of the stuff I got from him was "new", but hey, if it works, I'll keep using it!

ETA: Went to the linked article, and the site looked familiar for some reason. So after reading through both parts of the article, I went exploring….yup….this is the same site I found a while back when looking up how to identify planes.  Excellent site, and now bookmarked!!


----------



## donwilwol

Saturday morning check in. I see we're still having fun.

My book is finally published. It's on Amazon and my copies are ordered.


----------



## theoldfart

Way to go Mr. Don, congratulations.


----------



## DanKrager

Second that. Congratulations, Don. No small task, is it.

DanK


----------



## TheFridge

Ditto.


----------



## terryR

More Congratulations!


----------



## Bertha

Strong work, Don


----------



## Tim457

Very cool Don. Got an Amazon link? I don't see it on your website right away either.


----------



## woodcox

That will be a valuable resource for many, Don.

A gift from me this holiday season. I don't think I will wrap it nor try to explain it's presence other than in here. I decided against making a till early on in this fetish because filled vacancies are a trap and too easy to spot, but I may be approaching necessity. I just don't see a need for numbers 1, 5 1/2 or 8 at this time. A small bench build earlier this year left me desiring more heft and length than my no.6 could offer.

A very lightly used t19 no.7. It is the most I've paid for a plane but, still at a fraction of comparable new ones. 








This is going to take a minute to fix. 








It has had BLO brushed over the Japanning at some point. 









Also, this is under the lateral lever.


----------



## revrok

Congratulations Don! That is a terrific accomplishment and a much needed work!


----------



## TheFridge

Cox, I thought the similarly at first, especially when replacing Stanleys with LN, until I started needing smaller. If I didn't build a bunch of small stuff I probably wouldn't see the necessity but man I use the hell out of a 1 & 2.


----------



## JayT

I'm another one that thought I never needed anything smaller than a #4, because I never really used the single #3 in the till.

Then got an incredible deal on a #2 size and found I was using it constantly-many times where I previously would have used a block plane, other times where I would have grabbed the #4. Later, I built one of my Peek-a-boo style planes about the size of a #1 and it's become my go to for smoothing small pieces or even small sections of a larger piece. No way I would be without something that size now.


----------



## TechRedneck

Don

Congrats on the book, I know that was a lot of work and I wish you success.

I am not as active on LJ's as I was several years ago but still check in. I remember your posts at the start of the first version of the epic thread, you've become quite the expert. Hail to Yoda!


----------



## TheFridge

JayT said it better.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Congrats Don W on the book. Not an easy thing to do.

woodcox, you are picking up some nice planes. The No 7 is really nice. I might suggest that when you sharpen the blade, don't put a whole lot of camber on it to start. I just raise each side as I sharpen them on the diamond plate and that puts a slight camber. Try that first at least.


----------



## BlasterStumps

JayT, reading your post above makes me think the lot of us ought to go out to our shops, pick out and line up our 7 most used (go-to) hand planes out of the bunch and snap a picture to share on here and provide a little info on each. I think it would be very interesting to see what the different people are using for their go-to's. I don't know if others are willing but here are mine: 
The smallest (possibly a Stanley 101) is set to cut really fine and I use it to just take a sharp corner off or slight round over an edge.
The next is a MF 55. I recently found this little guy and really like it for small smoothing jobs or chamfering.
Then the Defiance by Stanley is tuned pretty nice so for most small-ish work where I am not too particular, I will grab it. It's a great little block. I really like that I can quickly tap it on the bench on it's toe or on the heel when I need to adjust the depth of cut and don't need to hunt a hammer. 
Then I keep the No 3, 4, and 5 on my bench nose down in the tool well so they are close at hand should I need them. I should mention that these three planes are all amazing to use in their own right.
And last but not least, the Veritas low-angle Jack. I call this plane the plane of last resorts. Not much it can't do.

Those are what I have been going to first but of course there are a few other when the need arises:
Stanley 40, 10-1/2, and 607, MF 56-B, and Craftsman 3732 when I am real picky.

I have a No 2 Stanley. It cuts great but I don't fit the damned thing so it just sits on the shelf.


----------



## woodcox

I was a few planes deep before I ever had a smoother. While building a workbench, a jack and fore were all that was necessary. With the sharpening gamut being parallel to learning how the surfaces want to be worked, I'm glad I waited on the smoothing planes because the desirable finished results came much easier by then.

Interesting proposition, blaster. It wold be cool to see what others find the most used.

Ill have to try that tap adjustment out. I didn't fall for fridge's method for toe tap advancements

Also, the donor arrrived today.


----------



## revrok

Blaster, I would love to be able to lay out my planes like that. Right now my bench never seems to be that clear and we just moved 2 months ago sooo… I'll do it when I get them all out again.
Very small Stanley block that is my favorite and whose number I can never remember! Alright I'll take a picture later
Bench Dog low angle block (60 1/2 - gift… Nice little plane)
2 Number 5 size jacks, one Craftsman MF with a chambered iron for a scrub and my 605 set as either a jointer or for stock removal
#7C will probably replace with 424 VBM when restored
#4 Bailey
I have listed them according to frequency of use. I would love to have a low angle Jack. Eventually… Very happy with what I have though!


----------



## terryR

Sad how little my planes get used these days. Just sad. But my go-to workers are the LN 164 and LN Rabbet Block.










Both are earning patina in my shop.


----------



## revrok

> Blaster, I would love to be able to lay out my planes like that. Right now my bench never seems to be that clear and we just moved 2 months ago sooo… I ll do it when I get them all out again.
> Very small Stanley block that is my favorite and whose number I can never remember! Alright I ll take a picture later
> Bench Dog low angle block (60 1/2 - gift… Nice little plane)
> 2 Number 5 size jacks, one Craftsman MF with a chambered iron for a scrub and my 605 set as either a jointer or for stock removal
> #7C will probably replace with 424 VBM when restored
> #4 Bailey
> I have listed them according to frequency of use. I would love to have a low angle Jack. Eventually… Very happy with what I have though!
> 
> - Tim Royal


 Ok, cleared a space… Realised I use the Stanley 92 and my wooden rabbett often as well. The block plane I mentioned is in the upper right.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

... pick out and line up our 7 most used (go-to) hand planes out of the bunch and snap a picture to share on here and provide a little info on each…

That's tough. Been pondering for a couple days and haven't got a list or pic settled up yet. It changes, the list of planes I use most, depending on what's going on in the shop. Hmmm…


----------



## Mosquito

I'm with ya Smitty…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mos, don't make this any harder than it needs to be for yourself. Just post up a pic of that 45 cabinet and you're golden.


----------



## JayT

I can probably figure out the 7 planes I use the most, the challenging part is getting the bench cleared off enough to snap a picture of them.


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos, don t make this any harder than it needs to be for yourself. Just post up a pic of that 45 cabinet and you re golden.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


but that's 20!

And for those curious, this is what Smitty was referencing


----------



## bandit571

The main users in the Dungeon Wood Shop…









An Ohio Tool Co. No. 0-7 for the bigger jointing jobs
A Stanley No. 5 Jack for quick removal of waste
A Millers Falls No. 11 for smaller jobs as a Jack
A Stanley No. 4 for smooth plane jobs
A Stanley No.45 for groovy stuff
A Stanley No. 60-1/2 for block plane jobs…
.









Just the "Usual Suspects"


----------



## ToddJB

That's looking great, Mos! Not a lot of room to grow though…....


----------



## CL810

I spy an empty spot!! Always room for 1 more!



> And for those curious, this is what Smitty was referencing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito


----------



## bandit571

"Pay 21"?


----------



## bobasaurus

Woah mos, you're not messing around there. Is that one of each type?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Okay Mosquito, which one is your favourite?


----------



## Mosquito

> I spy an empty spot!! Always room for 1 more!
> 
> - CL810


A plaque lol Something like Stanley #45, maybe a patent drawing. Also working on coming up with a little card for each of the types as well.



> That s looking great, Mos! Not a lot of room to grow though…....
> 
> - ToddJB


Yeah… they all just barely fit in there, but this is what I was intending that china hutch for, may have to build something else for displaying others lol



> Woah mos, you re not messing around there. Is that one of each type?
> 
> - bobasaurus


Yes, one of each type, except Type 18, which by most type studies only existing in catalogs, advertisements, or theory. Also only one of the two Aluminum planes.



> Okay Mosquito, which one is your favourite?
> 
> - BlasterStumps


One not pictured, the Type 12 that I keep as my user plane lol


----------



## Bertha

Mos, you know you could change out the pedestal bases to something with a smaller footprint, yes? Then you could fit at least one extra plane per shelf, right? Then your Wife lets you buy more, no?


----------



## DLK

> I can probably figure out the 7 planes I use the most, the challenging part is getting the bench cleared off enough to snap a picture of them.
> 
> - JayT


Exactly! Me too.


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos, you know you could change out the pedestal bases to something with a smaller footprint, yes? Then you could fit at least one extra plane per shelf, right? Then your Wife lets you buy more, no?
> 
> - Bertha


lol I had them not on pedestals before, but I made the pedestal bases to show them off better :-D This is the type study, there's nothing that says I won't have others ;-) (There are I think 6-7 that aren't in the display case as it is)


----------



## CL810

I decided to go with 7 most favored instead of most used. There is only 1 difference between most used and most favored and that's the LN 62 instead of the Veritas miter plane.

Anyway, from left to right. LN 7, the perfectly balanced and for me, the perfect weight, love to use this for edge jointing and leveling. Next, the 62. Most versatile end grain plane I know of. Most recently acquired 4 1/2 is becoming go to plane simply because I love not thinking about tear out. the 604 is a very comfortable smoother and of course the LN 60 1/2 block plane can do so much. The veritas medium shoulder plane and router plane complete the list.


----------



## Handtooler

That's quite a nice stable.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Excellent roundups Tim Royal, Bandit, Mosquito, and CL810. I can see now everyone has nicer toys than me. Dang!
Mike (holding back a little tear)


----------



## Bertha

My 7


----------



## bandit571

Depending on how rested I am at the start of a day..


----------



## terryR

Guys, don't clean off your bench for a photo. please.


----------



## Bertha

Terry! Mine was already clean, I swear. I was laying out on that walnut in the background.


----------



## Bertha




----------



## Just_Iain

Looks grand Bertha


----------



## BlasterStumps

TerryR, do you have any more pics of the LN 164 that you show in the previous pic? I don't know much about LN planes, is it a current model?

Mike


----------



## terryR

Cool, Al. I just like to see what's on the bench. Another story in its own. Even if it's a dozen barbie doll boxes, a bench has many uses. 

Mike, no good photos except this one of the group just after all the Wenge was added. The 164 is in the center.










LN makes very high quality tools. The parts fit and move together with precision unlike vintage tools due to new manufacturing processes. Like a modern day car compared to one from the 70's. Will they make your work better? No. A handplane can only be tuned and sharpened as well as the user's skills.

Yes it's a current model. The low-angle blade is very effective at smoothing figured woods without tearout, and lots of folks like them for end grain work. The 164 is a smaller sized plane that is my first go-to tool for everything. The 62 is a longer low-angle plane copied from Stanley's vintage model, and could be the best all around plane made IMO. I just work small pieces of wood, so love the 164 the best.

If you want to check out https://www.lie-nielsen.com/ hide your credit card!


----------



## Bertha

Terry, I'm the same way about benches. I often don't even look at the project at first, scanning the background for something cool. I do the same with magazines. I mean, how many times can you look at Schwarz planing something. I'm into Bandit's bench and Smitty's. Always something going on.

I'd love to hear a detailed description of your scraper setup, blade, pitch, bow, etc. I'm pretty confident that I'm not using mine up to its full potential. I like LN and I think I have all the planes you show. However, I'm drawn to vintage tools and they're all users, irrespective of price. If I kill one, I figure the tool died doing what it loved. I'll grab a LN if I'm not spiritually invested in the project. I get warm fuzzies with vintage that I miss with moderns, no matter the tolerances. It's like when you walk into an antique store and rapidly scan it. Your soul dings an alarm when iron+wood registers. Old iron and wood…goes good on everything.

Who makes that saw in the background?


----------



## JayT

> - Bertha


Mmmmm, Roundy 'Rocks and infills.

And Terry, I don't want to know about your Barbie doll boxes.


----------



## terryR

JayT, LOL. MIL and sister IL coming to visit this weekend, guess I have girly stuff on the brain. NOT looking forward to being cooped up with so many women at once…I retired 15 years ago. 

Al, I have only used that scraper once.  I bought it when I had a huge holiday check to spend a few years back. Now that I'm making infills, I probably won't use that 112. One day someone else will get it in incredible shape.  I'm trying to put patina on my other LNs

Yeah, I get the fuzzies from vintage tools, too. Hopefully we all do since they were built in the days of making, and today's nice one are copies. Nice copies, but someone else's idea, ya know? Sorta like the English Miters I'm copying now.

That backsaw is a Tyzack 120. I put a Bubinga handle on it since I hated the original.

so, what's that huge piece of walnut going to be?


----------



## Bertha

Thanks, Terry. I'm kind of the same way…after a good smoothing plane, a card scraper is all I've ever needed. I guess it would be cool to push that thing around, once tuned. I haven't made a lot of tools but I've got all the fixins to make them now. The silly fishtail chisel I made is one of my favorite tools now.

The walnut is going to be some tiny boxes for quilting stuff. I don't quilt, my fiance does, but if I did, that's just fine, too. Cue tirade. I'm so sick of this gender crap. I'm a guy that likes girls. As such, I like guy things like explosions, people tripping/falling, and tractors. I'm told I'm an antiquated breed that should be ashamed of myself. Terry, careful with the women, even retirement can't protect you nowadays lol. There's always SOMETHING to lose.

JayT, you are correct. Nothing finer. And if Terry wants to make Barbie doll boxes, that's fine, for the reasons I explain immediately above.


----------



## woodcox

The rich man's poor man's no.1 ended. 









I picked out a bocote chunk and a riffler file for mine yesterday. A few brass things to find and I should be good to go.


----------



## terryR

Al, you sound like a 'Fail Army' kinda guy? 

Yeah, everyone knows I'm a retired nurse, but I also have years experience at basking making and needlepoint. Nah, I'm straight. But, when you're selling stuff in a tent, I much prefer to talk to girls about baskets than guys about knives.










Yes, I make knives,too.


----------



## knockknock

I give up, I am going for 8 planes, with these 8 planes I could build everything that I have built (I think). My least used planes are the shoulder and router planes, but they are "goto" planes for what they do.

1) jack rabbet - jointing, try plane, beveled/angle edges, possible large rabbets, possible panel raising

2) 5¼ w jack - scrubbing, try plane, jointing, general trimming/flushing, large smoother

3) miter plane - shooting, possible miter jack usage

4) #3 smoother - smoothing, general trimming/flushing, possible toothing, possible scrub

5) left skew block - rabbets (goto for cross grain), bevel/chamfer edges, shooting, trim tennons, panel raising, general trimming/flushing

6) plow plane - grooves, rabbets, tongues, thin stock cutoff, possible beading

7) shoulder plane - trim rabbets, trim shoulders

8) router plane - trim dado/indent bottoms, trim tennons, possible stopped grooves


----------



## Mosquito

> I don t quilt, my fiance does, but if I did, that s just fine, too. Cue tirade. I m so sick of this gender crap. I m a guy that likes girls. As such, I like guy things like explosions, people tripping/falling, and tractors. I m told I m an antiquated breed that should be ashamed of myself. Terry, careful with the women, even retirement can t protect you nowadays lol. There s always SOMETHING to lose.
> 
> - Bertha


I'm with ya there. I like what I like because it appeals to who I am, who cares what appeals to others as long as it doesn't take away from me doing what I want.

On that note, I may have been the one to teach my wife how to crochet, and am still slightly better at sewing than she is, and not afraid to admit it. <3 My Grandma.


----------



## bobasaurus

Knock, who makes that #3 smoother? Don't think I've seen that style before, seems to be the only non-veritas plane there.


----------



## knockknock

> Knock, who makes that #3 smoother? Don t think I ve seen that style before, seems to be the only non-veritas plane there.
> 
> - bobasaurus


That's a Kunz plus #3 (the others are all Veritas).


----------



## Bertha

Knock. First man to put a plough on his list. Strong work.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Knock. First man to put a plough on his list. Strong work.
> 
> - Bertha


See, Mos? Coulda won that distinction, if you'd have only posted your picture as your list!


----------



## Mosquito

lol "Top Row"


----------



## KentInOttawa

> lol "Top Shelf"
> 
> - Mosquito


Fixed it for you :-D


----------



## BlasterStumps

Woodcox, how are you planning to attach the knob and tote on that little guy? I'm thinking epoxy?
Mike


----------



## bandit571

I guess a Stanley 45 isn't considered a Plough plane…...


----------



## woodcox

Blaster, I haven't decided yet. Definitely not brass screws up through the sole. The bed casting is surprisingly thicker than I anticipated. Im not opposed to perforations but, I would try hard to hide them. Yes, epoxy may be utilized.


----------



## knockknock

> I guess a Stanley 45 isn t considered a Plough plane…...
> 
> - bandit571


It's more than a plough plane


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Current "Most Used"










1. #4, Stanley Smoother Type 13
My first quality (RE: SW) bench plane, and still my go-to smoother. Close second to the SW #4 1/2.

2. #5, Stanley Jack Type 11
My $1 flea market find that just does whatever rough work I ask of it. I didn't paint the tote and knob green but wouldn't change them for anything now. If I need a little something else for jack work, a close second for this work is the #162.

3. #8, Stanley Jointer Type 13
The #8 Jointer (Heft & Hubris) is a tool that simply refuses to stop once it's in motion; no hand tools compare to the feeling you get using this beast. Don't waste time with anything less.

4. #9, Stanley Mitre Block
It's the tool for working the sides of drawers and for other misc. smoothing. And the occasional shooting.

5. #92, Stanley Shoulder SW
The only shoulder plane you'll ever need. Unless you need a bigger one, and the #93 does that job.

6. #46, Stanley Skew Plow
It's how grooves are made 70%+ of the time. The rest is shared time between the #50 and the #45.

7. #118, Stanley Steel "Boy Proof" Block
Very sharp, getting a bunch of use out of it lately as it's in the tool tote and that's been busy. If not for that flurry of remote site stuff, my benchtop block of choice is a #18 Excelsior Block, Type 2.


----------



## Mosquito

Solid picks Smitty. I'll have to give it some thought and get them on my bench tomorrow. I'm pretty sure I've got at least 5-6 of them figured out easily, not sure on the last one just yet.


----------



## terryR

quite the line up, Smitty.

+1 to an 18 close by at all times. My fav block plane is the one sharpened most recently.


----------



## Bertha

I debated between the 18, the 220, and the 65. In real life, the 65 most often.


----------



## TheFridge

Man I want a 9.


----------



## chrisstef

Like youve never had 9 before ^


----------



## Bertha

^Does one nine times count?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Only if it includes a Hot Dog attachment.


----------



## TheFridge

Honestly, didn't see that coming.

Oops.


----------



## chrisstef

Al .. no, but a jack and a smoother do.


----------



## Mosquito

Fridge gets 9 with some smooth Jack? Hmmm, this has escalated quickly lol


----------



## terryR

You girls should post more, this is great stuff.










my 7 planes, not in any order:

LN 51 Shooting Plane-I need to square up a lot of small pieces for the planes I make, so this guy never gets put away.

LN 164 Low-Angle Smoother-Probably my most used plane due to small size. Tackles exotics very well.

LN 62 Low-Angle Jack-My all around jack plane. Unless it's dull, then any vintage 5 will do nicely.

LN 4 1/2 Smoothing Plane with bronze frog-Heavy. My go-to plane when the low-angle tears out the exotics.

LN Rabbet Block Plane-My all around block plane. Love the weight and balance. Very easy to adjust to micron thin shavings.

Stanley 18 1/4 Knuckle Block Plane-Really any sharp block plane fits here for me. If the LN is dull, I reach for the most recently restored vintage block. This one is much nicer than a 118, Smitty. 

Stanley 45 Combination Plane-I rarely shape molding, but this is my only option since I don't own a router. Plus, these are beautiful tools.


----------



## BlasterStumps

WOW! Some fantastic planes are being shown in the pictures. I'm envious for sure.

Terry, maybe now we should have a session where everyone takes a picture(s) of the rest of their planes. That way we get to see what they are hoarding in the cupboards. : ) I have to admit, I have some shelf sitters. They are dogs from every town, not much to see besides my Stanley bench planes in the wall till.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Stanley 18 1/4 Knuckle Block Plane-Really any sharp block plane fits here for me. If the LN is dull, I reach for the most recently restored vintage block. This one is much nicer than a 118, Smitty.
> 
> - terryR


Congrats on having a bonafide #18 1/4 Terry, that's cool. Had to look it up on B&G to see what made it what it is, and the short (6-year) sales run for that one makes it pretty special. On block planes in general, I've got too many. Way too many. So picking the #118 was based solely on the fact that it's been in use more than any other block the last couple of months because I've done work away from the bench. In other words, I don't think it's a bench plane; I just won't bring a #S18 (for example) out into the wild and risk losing it. It is a good block though.

Kudos for selecting the 162 and 4 1/2, I agree they're solid workers. The 164 in my till holds a toothed cutter and is only used for that kind of work presently (and that's not often enough to make the list).

Good stuff.


----------



## terryR

I also have too many blocks. But, at $20 each, who can complain? 

Smitty, I have the rare 18 1/4 because I have a 15-19 collection going. For no reason other than to justify so many block planes.

Mike, I agree that we should have more group photo sessions. Showing all our planes by the numbers was pretty exhausting, but fun to see. We need another idea after this one plays out…


----------



## Bertha

All these awesome planes are making my head spin!


----------



## Slyy

Ha, not sure how I would place my "Top 7 Line-Up" but this is my current user shot and quasi preview as well:









My Millers Fall 14c, Type 3 from what I can tell.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I like it slyy, I have one of those and it is certainly one I will grab off the shelf on occasion. Really nice plane.
Mike


----------



## Mosquito

I guess my 7 was a little easier than I thought. I've honestly not unpacked most of my Stanley's after buying and moving to the house 2 years ago.


Lie-Nielsen #62
Lie-Nielsen #164
Stanley Type 11 #3c (or the flat sole one depending on which one I grab or which is sharper)
No name Preston pattern router plane
Stanley #101 mini block plane (This one was my grandfathers and I use it a LOT)
Stanley Type 12 #45
Veritas Shooting Plane


----------



## DLK

Thats an Idea! The last tools I pack will be the "seven" and it will be the first box I open after the move.

(P.S. I want that preston!)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Solid choices Mos. The No. 164 gets pretty good marks with this group… still wanting a vintage one. Someday maybe.


----------



## Mosquito

I hear ya Smitty. Closest I've gotten to owning a 164 was getting to hold one at an MWTCA meet lol "Ok, you got this… only hold it an inch or so off the table, only over the table, don't break anything… "

Yeah Don, I had most of my planes in one big case for the move, then due to space constraints only a handful got taken out of it before the plane til got put on top of it…


----------



## terryR

Notice how the LN Low-Angle planes are highly recommended? Someone made an excellent decision at LN to build those!

I have plans to build a copy of that Preston router. LN should, too.


----------



## Mosquito

I thought this was our "Top 7 Most Used" planes… Just because I use it a lot doesn't mean I'd recommend it…

Ok, so I would, but still


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

And, truth be told, I've made moldings and other millwork lately using several specimens out of the H&R chest. That'd make at least a couple of those "most used" over the past four weeks or so.


----------



## BlasterStumps

H&R chest…Gads, that's like words out of a foreign language to me. : (
Mike


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

They're still foreign to me too, Mike. It's a very recent thing, and Don Yoda is to blame.


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

(Damn, I've been ratted out!)


----------



## TheFridge

They may not have souls but they take after their owner.


----------



## Mosquito

I bought a thing… my first non-Stanley combination plane…









(Fulton)


----------



## terryR

solid family shot, Mr. Fridge.

Probably more cash on that bench than most of us paid for our first car. But I'm not judging. You make some nice stuff. For a girl from Mississippi.


----------



## CL810

A lot more. I paid $15 for my 1st. '64 corvair, no windshield, no brakes and no horn. It died in a frozen cornfield doing donuts, January '71.



> Probably more cash on that bench than most of us paid for our first car.
> - terryR


----------



## Mosquito

lol nice Andy. My first car was a $500 1989 Plymouth Acclaim that made the rounds of the family friends.

First Steve's dad owned it, then Steve ended up getting it for his his son. After that my dad's coworker had an accident and wanted something cheap until insurance was settled, etc, so he bought it for $500. We bought it back from him for $500 after that when I got my drivers license, When I went to college I didn't want to take it with me (I honestly didn't think it would handle the interstate for 4 hours each trip to college or home lol), but my dad kept it around until another family friends had their Ford Festiva do the splits on their driveway (not good when the left tire points left, and the right tire points right. Lucky it was on their driveway and not the highway!). So they bought it for, you guessed it, $500 lol. It eventually blew a head gasket when they had it on the interstate (SEE, I told you!). They donated it to charity at that point.


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah uhh. That's just the 7 most used… we haven't even gottten into chisels, spokeshaves, rasps and sharpening stones….

Side yobs, one credit card, birthdays and Christmas gifts add up.


----------



## chrisstef

Dont forget your street walking money too Fridge.


----------



## JayT

My top 7. Two perk-a-boo smoothers, 606 for jointing, transitional shooter, wood jack, 45 and a low angle block.

First six were easy, the last came down to the block, router, 78 or shoulder plane. I've been using the block more often recently, but a different project on the bench would change that.


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah. That does comprise the majority of my funds stef. Thank you for your contributions as well.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Everyone has a shooter. Heck, I only have a 5 that I lay on it's side on the bench top and use the opposite side of my bench hook to hold the stock. Who made that transitional shoot plane? Dang, I'm going to have to step up my game. 
Mike


----------



## JayT

> Who made that transitional shoot plane?
> 
> - BlasterStumps


That would be me. My own design and construction. If you are willing to put in some work, the parts are pretty cheap and I did a build along blog series so that others could build their own. If you go all out with the metal, it'll take a while (that one was done in about 25 hours, the first one took over 40). If you do an all wood version, it can be probably be done in an afternoon.

Once you have a good shooting plane, you will never go back to using a bench plane on its side and will use it a lot. There's a reason that so many of us with shooters have them in our top 7.


----------



## Mosquito

It's true, I only got my shooter because I was able to grab one during a cyber Monday sale a few years ago. I'm not sure I would have gotten one otherwise, but I'm glad I did. If you do a lot of shooting it's definitely worth it. If you only use a shooting board occasionally, then I'd stick to a bench plane.


----------



## Just_Iain

Back in the day (1978 to 1994) when I worked as a carpenter:
1) Stanley frankenblockplane. The cap was a Stanley, as to other parts, not Stanley. Used extensively. MIA
2) Stanley #271 Rabbet bought new in the 80's. I still have it and used it extensively for door hardware installation.
3) Record #4 bought new in the 80's. It always strikes how heavy it is compared to the Stanley #3. Still used once in a blue moon. Very popular with coworkers that need to touch up a door…
4) Stanley #3 with the plastic handles. Bought new in 80's. Handy little bugger that was easy to use overhead. This plane is part of collection of tools that will be going to my daughter. (excuse to buy an older #3 with rosewood knob and tote this past summer).

Photos would involve digging out the pantry to get to tools although I had the #4 along just in case today when I went to the daughters to install reproduction cast iron door hardware.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thanks to Der Leachmeister, the No. 52 shoot board is closer to complete.


----------



## woodcox

New parts smitty? Just the hold down left to find? That is a thing of beauty sir!

I finished shaping a cute lil' bocote tote this evening.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yep, T-bolt new and L-bracket remaining.

That is a tiny plane tote!


----------



## terryR

Awesome, Smitty.


----------



## Slyy

Every time I see that Smitty, I am filled with lustful thoughts, might need a priest.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That shoot board is a beast. The #51 needs a honing. And overall I need more reasons to reach for them both but it's not that often. Of course, there's very little happening in the shop overall lately. Need to fix that!


----------



## Miataguy

> You girls should post more, this is great stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my 7 planes, not in any order:
> 
> LN 51 Shooting Plane-I need to square up a lot of small pieces for the planes I make, so this guy never gets put away.
> 
> LN 164 Low-Angle Smoother-Probably my most used plane due to small size. Tackles exotics very well.
> 
> LN 62 Low-Angle Jack-My all around jack plane. Unless it's dull, then any vintage 5 will do nicely.
> 
> LN 4 1/2 Smoothing Plane with bronze frog-Heavy. My go-to plane when the low-angle tears out the exotics.
> 
> LN Rabbet Block Plane-My all around block plane. Love the weight and balance. Very easy to adjust to micron thin shavings.
> 
> Stanley 18 1/4 Knuckle Block Plane-Really any sharp block plane fits here for me. If the LN is dull, I reach for the most recently restored vintage block. This one is much nicer than a 118, Smitty.
> 
> Stanley 45 Combination Plane-I rarely shape molding, but this is my only option since I don't own a router. Plus, these are beautiful tools.
> 
> - terryR


I am thinking of the LN low angle smoother, nice to know yours is working well.


----------



## DLK

This was hard to do but here are are my 7 (I think).










Stanley 8, Stanley 5 1/2, Stanley 4 1/2, Miller Falls 10, Stanley 4, Miller Falls 07, Stanley 60 1/2, Miller Falls 07.

But this leaves out router planes, rabbet planes, tongue and groove planes, combination planes, scrapers, wooden molding planes, etc. All of which I use.


----------



## BlasterStumps

"Stanley 8, Stanley 5 1/2, Stanley 4 1/2, Miller Falls 10, Stanley 4, Miller Falls 07, Stanley 60 1/2, Miller Falls 07."

If you have two Millers Falls 07's, I could take one off your hands. : )

Seriously though, I like your plane roundup there. Nice!

Mike


----------



## DLK

Took me forever to get the only MF 07 I have. YOU CAN"T HAVE IT!


----------



## theoldfart

Don, I counted ten tools! The hollow tenon auger and the spoke pointer could be counted as a set I suppose so that would be nine. What kind of file?

When I get home i'll have to guesstimate my choices. I can say it'll include a 3, 4 /2, two 5's, and 7.


----------



## DLK

Ah …. Mos requested that we not completely clear the bench. So I added a few of the tools I'll be using on my wifes Christmas present.

The file is a TOME' FETEIRA 10 inch *HAND STITCHED* Cabinet Rasp Smooth Cut made in portugal. Its fantastic. I bought it from azmica90405 for $69 (+$3.46 S&H) he included to my surprise a cute tiny file that I find useful. You can buy the non-hand stitched version for $35 and there likely won't be much of a difference. I don't think the HAND STITCHED is really hand stitched, I think it is simulated hand stitched, but I could be wrong. Anyway he has lots different files and rasps for sale and I may buy more.

Apparently its cheaper to buy them from Anglo American Tools in packs of 6 without wood handles.

I got the idea to buy these from reading their recommendation in several post of Paul Sellers.


----------



## Just_Iain

Here's a Millers Fall 900 in what appears to be very good shape:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Millers-Falls-no-900-plane/332484293233?hash=item4d699bb271:g:SuQAAOSwEEBaFL1P

Hopefully this is of interest to someone.

Iain


----------



## bandit571

The plane over beside the block plane is also a #900…..

Been too long since another even made a shaving….









Takes a slightly different grip than my other planes.


----------



## BlasterStumps

That little plane is looking good so far. Anxious to see it all done now. 
Mike


> New parts smitty? Just the hold down left to find? That is a thing of beauty sir!
> 
> I finished shaping a cute lil' bocote tote this evening.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - woodcox


----------



## woodcox

Me too. I have a baby boy due in a couple weeks and getting ready for him is taking precedence. His mom seems to think he could be early too. Christmas and his five year old sister are making me time non existent lately.

I made a bedroom blue today.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Wow! those are some exciting times you talk about. Congratulations to you both. Wishing you both the very best.

Those days when we had children on the way are way way back in my review mirror now but were the best of the best of times.


----------



## ToddJB

That looks like a Festool room, WC


----------



## chrisstef

Kids gonna come out with his pinky up ^

Real men cut in without any tape.


----------



## TheFridge

> Real men cut in without any tape.
> 
> - chrisstef


Great minds think alike.


----------



## woodcox

Lol. I had no idea.

I am a sloppy heathen who fell for the marketing wank. I use the 2" wide frogs to keep the roller marks off the ceiling. Crisp, no bleed lines are just a byproduct. 


> Real men cut dovetails without any tape.
> 
> - chrisstef


----------



## revrok

LOL



> Kids gonna come out with his pinky up ^
> 
> Real men cut in without any tape.
> 
> - chrisstef


----------



## revrok

Congrats! Children are an awesome gift from God.



> Me too. I have a baby boy due in a couple weeks and getting ready for him is taking precedence. His mom seems to think he could be early too. Christmas and his five year old sister are making me time non existent lately.
> 
> I made a bedroom blue today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - woodcox


----------



## donwilwol

Santa found a Sargent honey hole!


----------



## theoldfart

Including a compass plane, Santa did good!


----------



## TheFridge

Honeyhole indeed


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice Don!


----------



## donwilwol

Thank God pulse is back. Happy New year!


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah I'd be thanking god as well if I lost my pulse for a week or so


----------



## GlenintheNorth

> Friend of mines. Daddy likes.
> 
> - TheFridge


I know that case…at least, I think I do.


----------



## bandit571

In use today…









Along with a Millers Falls No. 11









Jointer is a Stanley #31


----------



## TheFridge

You might Glen


----------



## Mosquito

Since I believe this has been brought up on this forum before, there was another update today on the "Antique & Collectible STANLEY TOOLS Guide to Identity and Value" 3rd edition book by John Walter

Still no actual date or ordering info, but another update is at least a good thing:



> NEWS! January, 2018 update:﻿ just a few more weeks away from completion, send a SASE to receive info soon (if you haven't sent already)
> 
> The newly revised "Antique & Collectible STANLEY TOOLS Guide to Identity and Value" BOOK Third edition 2018, long awaited and worth waiting for is coming very soon!﻿


http://stanleytoolsbook.com/


----------



## donwilwol

At least the updates are becoming more frequent.


----------



## DonBroussard

I've been following this thread for a couple of years now and I don't recall anyone having used an ultrasonic cleaner for small metal hand plane parts. Has anyone here tried cleaning small metal parts in an ultrasonic cleaner? I don't currently own one, else I would just try it and see if it works and to what degree, if any.


----------



## DanKrager

Don, I don't use ultrasonic cleaner in my shop, but in another reality I did and it was unbelievable what it would do. However, the price tag was also unbelievable for that large commercial version, large being about 12×9 x 6. 
So I suspect, at least in my case, it is like swatting flies with a 12 gauge. LOL! I have my fly swatter marked (12 ga) Now, if one could come by one really cheap… Even a parts cleaner is a luxury for these jobs, but a sand blaster is pretty effective too for some things. It boils down to how much $ to throw at it.

DanK


----------



## DonBroussard

Thanks, Dan. It only occurred to me when I saw a small ultrasonic jewelry cleaner for $10 that it might be worth testing out for small metal parts. I wish I had access to a sandblasting cabinet that would fit heft-and-hubris sized planes.


----------



## ToddJB

Don, I have the HF ultra sonic cleaner. It's does an okay job are taking off grime with a full strength degreaser. But doesnt do anything for rust or tarnish. It just picked up a vibrating tumbler and im still testing life with it, but I'd bet that is what would be more benificial. Like what guys that reload bullets use.


----------



## DonBroussard

Thanks, Todd. I appreciate your sharing that experience. Good to know that the ultrasonic cleaner does clean but has no impact on rust.


----------



## dbray45

If you want to clean rust

A car battery charger. a few battery clips, battery cable, a large plastic bucket, and washing soda and you are in business


----------



## DonBroussard

David - Agreed. I've done the electrolysis process before and was very happy with the results.


----------



## DanKrager

+1^. Electrolysis removes rust and hair, but not at the same time. LOL! I used the battery charger and a log chain as ground for rust removal. (Log chains and hair removal are for bigger men than I…!) Works very well and rather quickly, taking thick rust scale off that won't wire brush. Gets in all the corners 'n stuff.

DanK


----------



## woodcox

Idk. 3/4" high knob doesn't grab me.









The finger pad still needs to be filed flush with the bed. I turned the knob from the largest scrap piece left over from the tote and knew it might be too small. It should be as wide as the lever cap I think. Maybe a larger low knob with a bead?


----------



## Just_Iain

> Idk. 3/4" high knob doesn't grab me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The finger pad still needs to be filed flush with the bed. I turned the knob from the largest scrap piece left over from the tote and knew it might be too small. It should be as wide as the lever cap I think. Maybe a larger low knob with a bead?
> 
> - woodcox


I'm liking where this is going!


----------



## woodcox

Much better.


----------



## TheFridge

Yep. Much manlier. Is that the MF block?


----------



## woodcox

Late model Stanley 101. 3 1/2 long 1" iron. Some brass to bring it down a peg.


----------



## TheFridge

What the hell is that amazing thing used to secure the knob?

You should strip it. Repaint it and polish the ever living ish out of it.


----------



## summerfi

That looks like the cooling fan Fridge.


----------



## TheFridge

That is a sweet cooling fan. You definitely have to spruce it up now.


----------



## Bertha

lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That can tab is HUGE!!! Where'd you get it, off a can of Fosters Lager?


----------



## Bertha

I thought the same thing! I joked with my wife that I should mill a giant dime and put a #8 next to it.


----------



## terryR

Cute little shoulder plane, Al.


----------



## DLK

Betha, I can't believe you drank that whole can just to get that tab.


----------



## Bertha

Man's gotta do….Prof. I was drinking Pabst before hipsters declared it cool. 
Terry, I didn't make it. I bought it from a guy on Etsy, $5 or so. I just shaped it and sharpened it. 
I did get Bill Carter's tiny plane book, but I've been reading about Sargent planes lately;-)


----------



## theoldfart

"reading about Sargent planes lately"

I heard there was a real page turner out there from some local neander


----------



## donwilwol

Better than nytol!


----------



## bobasaurus

I bought my first infill plane at a local tool auction a few months ago. I had to do a lot of work on the tote, and spent hours yesterday lapping the sole and blade, but it seems to work now. The bed angle and mouth opening were quirky too and needed some adjustment. Still needs some extra clearance behind the fine mouth opening and finer sanding on the sole to reduce friction, but at least it's taking shavings.

The plane doesn't have a makers mark, I suspect it's Scottish. The blade is marked Warranted Johnson Cast Steel with a C.J. flag logo.

Interestingly, the tote slides into a dovetail channel cast into the iron body. It was loose when I received it… I had to strip and shim the dovetail section, fit it to the channel, and epoxy it in. The tote is beech, heavily darkened with age. The front knob/bun thing might be mahogany, hard to tell.


----------



## Bertha

That's really nice, Boba. I agree…Scottish styling. Aside from Spiers and Mathieson, many of the Scotties seem scrolly and cupidy. The round front end is a little unusual. I've heard of the mechanism you describe, but I've never seen one in person. You say "first". Did the bug get you and there's a second, a third…? A few months is plenty of time to solidify a disease.


----------



## bobasaurus

Thanks Bertha. It's my first and only infill for now, but it sure is pretty…. and ebay is always the tempting siren.


----------



## bobasaurus

After a tune-up today:










Full-width shaving on 8/4 hard maple.


----------



## donwilwol

That looks great


----------



## DLK

So are infill planes superior to non-infills, and if so how, or are they just somehow very cool.


----------



## bobasaurus

> So are infill planes superior to non-infills, and if so how, or are they just somehow very cool.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Doesn't seem much different than using any other heavy plane when tuned up properly. It has a lot of mass for its size, which can help dampen vibrations though it wears you out fast. I like the looks a lot.


----------



## TheFridge

Curvy lines, tight mouth, exotic. Oohhhh


----------



## Bertha

Don, I believe that a quality infill does outperform a modern plane (LN, etc.). I think it's for the reasons Boba mentions but I think the bearing surfaces are larger, beefier, and heavier. Once set, they seem to stay set. They're less forgiving during setup but when you nail it, it's nailst. Which is why you'll regret buying that beautiful user with a chipped mouth. These planes are like Christef's favorite latex barrier, 3M, where the mouth-matters-most.

Weight is not a nonissue. Especially in not short sessions with panel planes, you'll not get a lack of a sense of relief picking up a No. 7. A well tuned smoother you can just nudge along a board with your finger and it will cut.

Plus, especially the Scottish and no-namers, they're just irresistibly gorgeous.


----------



## chrisstef

Speaking of latex …. your order came in Al


----------



## Just_Iain

I was at a "Used Tool Sale" at Tom Fidgen's Unplugged Shop/School up here in Toronto today and had some fun looking at planes and other tools. I never knew Marples did an infill plane. And a few others such as a Stanley #48 which I had never taken the time to look at before. No luck on a #8 Wooden Hollow as all the seller brought was a single hollow at #10. They had a Stanley #75 (like I have but is packed away) but the size and layout won't work for adding a fence (Furniture and Cabinetmaking magazine had a photo of a British one from around 1890 or so) similar to the Stanley #78. Do I want to drill a hole in my Stanley #90? (I need to find a coworker with a drill press!). And a have a fence that looks like a miniature #78 fence that's about 3" long.

The final fun was a Woodcraft #1 that Tom in the classroom. Darn is that thing small. And why such a big jump from #1 to #2 and so little difference between a #3 and #4?

In the end all I bought was some Camellia oil for the planes that Tom carried at the store as the 'seller' only took cash.

What did I learn today? I need to pull out the workmate and get cutting some wood…


----------



## Just_Iain

> Speaking of latex …. your order came in Al
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - chrisstef


Chrisstef, are you claiming experience with said gloves?


----------



## donwilwol

I suppose when we dream of finding a Stanley #1, it doesn't look like this, but then you take what you get


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Iaian, maybe what you're looking for is a #278 Rabbet and filletster plane. It's so much a hybrid, between the should planes (90, 92, 92, etc) and adjustable rabbets (78, 289 sans skew, etc).

Bottom right in this picture.










Don, nice find re: that No. 1! It's your second one right?


----------



## TheFridge

Don, I saw one in the wild in New Orleans of all places. Open house type sale at an old mill work shop. Ask if it's for sale. Next thing i know there's a fellow asking the guy how much he wants for this plane with an inch of dust on top. The owner says he forgot he ever owned it and it wasn't for sale.

The guy who found it replied, "how about a finders fee."


----------



## bobasaurus

Weird plane on ebay:



















https://www.ebay.com/itm/132452959551?rmvSB=true


----------



## bobasaurus

Sucker is getting expensive too, dang.


----------



## Slyy

Just saw that one Bob, I wonder what that reserve is!


----------



## bigblockyeti

That does look pretty neat but I can't help but ask why? Really looks like a solution in search of a problem.


----------



## bandit571

Seen while out on a walk-about, today….









and..
.








A $200 +tax plane?









There were a few other "goodies" 









Then there were these things…









And…









Need something to sharpen them irons with?









Just a day out walking…..


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## DLK

Neat!


----------



## woodcox

Calling this done. I kept they gray and red but replaced the rod with a larger 1/8" brass one. I used epoxy and so far so good even after a drop to floor. I didn't like the idea of perforations in the bed. 



































Stretching a dime to make it happen.


----------



## CFrye

Woodcox, this is great! I see the dime under the knob. Did you not file the finger notch flush?


----------



## woodcox

Thanks Candy. I left the finger pad under there, I did scrape the paint away for better purchase.


----------



## bigblockyeti

> Weird plane on ebay:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/132452959551?rmvSB=true
> 
> - bobasaurus


Went all the way to $2500 and still didn't meet the reserve, I realize it's rare but not meeting the reserve even at that high of a price seems to have crossed over into the greed category IMHO.


----------



## ToddJB

I guess it depends if he found it at a flea market, or made a substantial investment that he's looking to recoup on it.


----------



## DLK

Perhaps he just trying to ascertain what it is worth.


----------



## TheFridge

Could be being sold on consignment. Have a buddy who does that.


----------



## Slyy

Saw several people couple of related Facebook groups talking about it, one had seen one sale more than decade ago, maybe this was the same one, can't imagine there are many of those around.


----------



## DLK

> Saw several people couple of related Facebook groups talking about it, one had seen one sale more than decade ago, maybe this was the same one, can't imagine there are many of those around.
> 
> - Slyy


I started it. I.e. I told a neighbor of mine about the plane and he went and posted the "To skew or not to skew post" 
thread in "Hand Plane Building, Restoring and Collecting". I am so sorry.


----------



## bobasaurus

Look at this "interesting" modification to an otherwise good 5 1/2:










Doesn't look too comfortable…


----------



## bobasaurus

Also, what the heck is this thing:

https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/48473747

???


----------



## Just_Iain

> Iaian, maybe what you re looking for is a #278 Rabbet and filletster plane. It s so much a hybrid, between the should planes (90, 92, 92, etc) and adjustable rabbets (78, 289 sans skew, etc).
> 
> Bottom right in this picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don, nice find re: that No. 1! It s your second one right?
> 
> - SmittyCabinetshop


Hi SmittyCabinetshop,

The photo I saw was a British Bullnose like a Stanley #78 with a fence. No handle. Unfortunately, the magazine app won't let me get images off it that I've been able to discover.

Iain


----------



## Tim457

> Also, what the heck is this thing:
> 
> https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/48473747
> 
> ???
> 
> - bobasaurus


At first it just looked like a basic coach maker's beading tool or for making curved grooves, but the blade bed appears to be sideways and I'm not sure why that would be. It still probably is for making curved grooves or beads, but I don't see why the blade would be set that way.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I recently purchased another Stanley 4. No raised ring under knob, one patent date. I'm guessing a type 13. I have been working on cleaning it up. I took a couple pics of where I am at this time on it. Still need to get some stain for the furniture and do some final prep on it before applying the stain and then I plan to do a finish coat. This is the plane that I wanted to get a decal for the tote. Might not do it though as I have learned that not all of the sweetheart planes had the decal. This is apparently an early version sweetheart plane. As you can see in the pics, I got rid of the rust but have left some of the character which I like. Comparing this plane side by side to the other later version sweetheart that I have, it's evident that this plane has a heavier casting. One can easily see a difference in the width of the sides between the two. I have it sharpened and ready to go except for the final work on the wood. Just trying it a little bit, I have to say I think it will quickly become my favorite Stanley smoother. 
Mike
before:








after:


----------



## CL810

That really looks nice Mike, great work.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

No ring under the T13s, I'm thinking T14.


----------



## bandit571

On another site, a fellow was asking about using a #8 that he wanted to buy. Makes boxes and trays. Did say something about having a #62….so, I posted a little show& tell. Since a #62 is ROUGHLY the same size as a #5 jack plane…









In this case it is My Millers Falls No. 14….and My #8 Stanley. Bit of a size difference? 
Maybe IF I increased the size of the Jack plane a bit?









A Jumbo Jack. Inch or so longer than the #5, and the iron is 3/8" wider. But, he still wants a "BIG" plane








Stanley No. 7c?








Stanley #6c, type 10..









6" shorter than the #8….a LOT lighter in weight…..Think I'll just go with the "Spare Tire" instead..









Tape is to improve the grip of my sweaty hands, after a LONG day in the shop.

Show & Tell is concluded..any questions?


----------



## BlasterStumps

I was watching a YouTube video where it was stated that if the plane blade rests against the bevel at the back edge of the mouth that it will cause stress at the sides of the bevel. I was under the understanding that the cracks at the sides of the mouth that we see so much of were a result of rough use stemming from using an improperly sharpened (dull) blade. 
One reason I am questioning the info in the video is that I set my No 4 frog so that I have a very close opening between the blade edge and the front of the mouth and yet, I can't slip a very thin piece of paper in between the blade and the bevel. 
I'm left wondering if this concern over the blade resting against the bevel is a real concern if the blade is adequately sharpened and the plane is properly prepped?


----------



## donwilwol

I think what he meant was you want your blade supported all the way to the bottom of the frog leg. IMO if the frog is back far enough that the back of the month is holding the blade off the frog, I agree with the statement IN SOME MOUTH DESIGNS. there are just too many designs to make a blanket statement though.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have tried my best to keep my plane irons adequately sharpened and then when installing them, I have been more attentive to the mouth opening for the use of the plane. I haven't paid any real close attention to whether on not there was any 'gap' between the back side of the blade and the bevel. I just simply tried to set the frog so I was comfortable with it laying flat on the frog. With this video that I referred to, I now have a little different understanding and so I think I will be paying a little more attention to the frog position. Some smoothers like this type 13 No 4 that I just cleaned up, don't seem to have much wiggle room because the mouth opening is so narrow. When I get the time in the next little bit, I plan to have another look at some of the other planes to see what the frog, blade, bevel relationships are on them. I don't know of a plane that I damaged in this blade setting but don't want to unknowingly mess one up either. I'm still learning about hand planes little by little.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Bandit, Nice group of planes you show there. You have the sizes covered. It looks like the No 7 was once fitted with a fence. Did you get a fence with it? They can be handy things to have. I improvised and made a fence for a No 7 that i have by fitting a fence from a power plane. It works and I use that plane at times when I don't trust my abilities otherwise while prepping for edge to edge glue ups.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ That makes a lot more sense to me, Don.

Blaster, I understand the desire to avoid damaging tools, I'm with you. The face of the frog being co-planer with the bevel of the back of the mouth (very strange sentence) is typically the first setting I'll try. Not great to have the frog set back further than that, as the result may be having the cutter rest on the mouth opening.


----------



## donwilwol

I would think if a plane was dull enough that a person needed to be rough enough to break the mouth, there would not be much smoothing going on. I think it's more likely these cracks found are from drops hitting the plane in such a way it forces the frog down. This would be exaggerate if the cap was over tightened.

I agree the mouth plays a role in tear out, but I don't believe the thickness of the opening is as critical as one might think. In other words a good thickness may be between 1/100" and 4/100" which no difference seen. So it's good up to a point and then you get tear out. ( I just made the 100s up)

All my opinion of course, and you know what they say about free advice!


----------



## DLK

I would rate in order of importance


Sharp blade
properly fitting chip breaker.
flat sole
tight lever cap
frog in proper position


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

1. Sharp
2. Sharp
3. Sharp

And, that's about it.


----------



## TheFridge

Sharp

Cap iron setup


----------



## Mosquito

Does anyone happen to know where I might be able to find, or even just see a Siegley No. 3 of the post-Stanley bought Pre-Stanley castings era? I'm largely looking at you Don W ;-) According to the book about Wilkes Barrow plane makers, it should exist, but I've yet to find one out there of this particular style.

That is to say, the #3 that matches this (top plane):


----------



## donwilwol

this is the only #3 i've had


----------



## Mosquito

I had run across that one on your site. Upon going back and re-reading the book, I'm not sure what I was remembering, but it wasn't correct. In the book it only mentions sizes 4 and up after Stanley bought them, so maybe they never did make a No. 3 when under Stanley control (until the sSs and sTs lines)


----------



## donwilwol

That's possible


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

When you collect tools you occasionally come across a jewel. Not very often when you are a tightwad. I've been waiting on this one for a week to cross the pond from England. You see this size every once in a while but they are usually very high or in poor shape. This plane is in excellent shape with a tight mouth.

This is a George Buck small coffin plane made between 1840-1872 going by the Location which is in the makers mark; 242 Tottenham Ct Rd. It is 4 7/16" long x 1 11/16" wide by 2" tall and has a 1 3/16" blade.

I hope to make a few reproductions of this size.


----------



## Handtooler

WOW! Nice find.


----------



## bandit571

Pair of Made in France bookends….










Haven't found much else to use them for…









Goldenberg…..









Unless someone else wants them….

Stanley No. 8…about a type 7?









Chipbreaker has been tuned up, iron is short, but now it is at least sharp..









No patent dates…and has a low knob….can get more info IF you want…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Yes, that little coffin smoother is a treasure. It looks clean. I don't see any flight holes in it either. I'd like to have a small one like that. I have a big brother to it and really like it.


----------



## summerfi

That little coffin is a gem, Turtle. I look forward to seeing your reproductions.

Bandit, the markings on those French planes are neat. I could trade you some saw sharpening for them.


----------



## bandit571

They will need brand new bodies…1892 was a long time ago….PM if you like?


----------



## bobasaurus

Impressive work from a Russian engraver:


----------



## FoundSheep

Wow, that's an incredible engraving. Did it mention what plans it started as? I'm not familiar enough with some of the other brands to recognize if it's another one (possibly heavily modified) or if it's a custom one.


----------



## TheFridge

Mos, a knowledgeable buddy of mine said they made #3 sized not #2. He told me to give you his email if you had any questions he may be able to answer.


----------



## DLK

So … I have this odd question. It seems tension against the iron in all metal bodied planes is either against a center bolt/screw or against a spanning rod, but in wooden planes it is against two side grooves. Was there ever an attempt to duplicate the side groove method into metal planes? I can see it being dismissed as a bad idea pretty quickly, but I would have suspected there would have been some short lived side groove metal planes that were made. What is the history and timeline?


----------



## DLK

I have found it The Knowles plane patented around 1827:










The answer was buried and easily missed in A Brief History Of The Woodworking Plane

Once I knew what to look for, I found IS IT A KNOWLES, A HOLLY, OR ???

Does anyone have one? How does it compare?

Has anyone tried to make one?


----------



## donwilwol

> I have found it The Knowles plane patented around 1827:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The answer was buried and easily missed in A Brief History Of The Woodworking Plane
> 
> Once I knew what to look for, I found IS IT A KNOWLES, A HOLLY, OR ???
> 
> Does anyone have one? How does it compare?
> 
> Has anyone tried to make one?
> 
> - Combo Prof


How does it compare to what?


----------



## DLK

How does it compare in use to other planes?

I can see that that the addition of the adjustment screw gives you a way to fine tune the depth of the iron. But this could also be added to the knowles plane had they pursued that feature. So aside from that does it perform as well or better then say a stanley/bailey plane?


----------



## donwilwol

A knowles plane is typically worth $4 or $5000, so not many people tune them or even sharpen them. I have a Birdsill holly which needed to be restored, so I did try it. It worked just fine.

The users of the time were coming from wooden planes, so the adjustment wasn't much of a consideration. If you look through history, this isn't an uncommon type to be produced, and isn't a whole lot different than many of the early infills.

I can only guess on a knowles, because I've never even held one, but I'm sure they would work wonderfully.


----------



## DLK

Thanks. Satisfies my morning curiosity.


----------



## FoundSheep

I was curious about the Knowles, so I did some more searching. Turns out there is one available for only $650. That's a bargain Don!
https://finetools.com/products/knowles-type-iron-joiner-plane

But when I think about it, I wonder why the wood-bodied/metal-adjuster turned into the default transitional, rather than these metal-bodied/wood-adjusters.


----------



## donwilwol

That particular plane us a "Knowles type" plane which means it was most likely someone who copied Knowles design.

Knowles never put his name in a plane, so it's difficult to determine a true Knowles. I really don't know how they can tell, but there are some they are quite sure they were actually made by Knowles (I guess)

I have seen some Knowles type who actually had somebody else's name. Those are easy.


----------



## FoundSheep

Very cool to know, thanks Don.


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## DLK

> I was curious about the Knowles, so I did some more searching. Turns out there is one available for only $650. That s a bargain Don!
> 
> - FoundSheep


Sometimes I never know which Don is being talked to, but at $650 you clearly did not mean me!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Last night, I went off the deep end and bought a type 5 (I think) Stanley 71. It's missing the depth stop rod and shoe so I will be on the hunt for those pieces. Anyone have them kicking around on the shop floor? : )


----------



## bandit571

nhplaneparts


----------



## DLK

Bob Howard of St. James bay makes a reproduction #71 DEPTH SHOE ROD. It will be way cheaper then from nhplaneparts.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Will that fit different types of 71? Mine is missing too but it's newer than that.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I don't think the dimensions of the rod/shoe have changed. I'll know for sure when I receive the plane that I bought because I plan to take the rod and shoe from my newer plane and try it on it. I'm betting it will work though.
A person could make a depth stop out of a short piece of rod and a clamp of sorts. I think fairly easy enough. The shoe might be a little harder to make.


> Will that fit different types of 71? Mine is missing too but it s newer than that.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


----------



## DLK

I am sure it fits all the type 71 with a #71 DEPTH SHOE ROD. I was also going to suggest just buy a mild steel rod form the hardware store. On the other hand I don't know why you would ever need to use one. I never had wanted one.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photo?









Lets see…..low knob, no ring, no patent dates ahead of the tote…









Stanley No. 8…..Might have it tuned up?


----------



## BlasterStumps

I most likely won't bid much over $375 on this. Maybe a touch more : ) 
How about you guys?
https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/49220415


----------



## bobasaurus

Wow, a rabbet scraper plane. Didn't know those existed.



> I most likely won t bid much over $375 on this. Maybe a touch more : )
> How about you guys?
> https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/49220415
> 
> - BlasterStumps


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I would do the same, Blaster. Wood looks good around the base, that's typically the issue with those planes.


----------



## donwilwol

They're pretty rare!


----------



## Just_Iain

> Bob Howard of St. James bay makes a reproduction #71 DEPTH SHOE ROD. It will be way cheaper then from nhplaneparts.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I ordered my Depth Shoe Rod from St. James Bay and it dropped into place perfectly.

Iain


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks for the info Iain, I will probably do the same sometime soon. I have to build up my mad money again first. Spent $58 with shipping on the router so I'm poor now. : (
Mike


> Bob Howard of St. James bay makes a reproduction #71 DEPTH SHOE ROD. It will be way cheaper then from nhplaneparts.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> I ordered my Depth Shoe Rod from St. James Bay and it dropped into place perfectly.
> 
> Iain
> 
> - Just_Iain


----------



## BillWhite

Blaster, did ya find a shoe for the router plane? If not, I've got one extra if ya need it.
Bill


----------



## BlasterStumps

Hi Bill, No, I haven't yet. I would like to get one for it for sure.
Mike


> Blaster, did ya find a shoe for the router plane? If not, I ve got one extra if ya need it.
> Bill
> 
> - Bill White


----------



## BillWhite

Blaster, contact:
[email protected]
$10.00 + shipping in padded envelope.


----------



## Just_Iain

> Iaian, maybe what you re looking for is a #278 Rabbet and filletster plane. It s so much a hybrid, between the should planes (90, 92, 92, etc) and adjustable rabbets (78, 289 sans skew, etc).
> 
> Bottom right in this picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don, nice find re: that No. 1! It s your second one right?
> 
> - SmittyCabinetshop
> 
> Hi SmittyCabinetshop,
> 
> The photo I saw was a British Bullnose like a Stanley #78 with a fence. No handle. Unfortunately, the magazine app won t let me get images off it that I ve been able to discover.
> 
> Iain
> 
> - Just_Iain


Hey Smitty,

Found a picture for the Bullnose Plane with fence:









A very curious idea indeed!

Iain


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow. Sort of a Preston-versioned Stanley No. 90 / 90-J with fence. And what a fence it is, too. Almost made to look like a chamfering tool. And that spring on the right fence, how strange.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'm not 100% sure but I think this 605 just might be a type 5 from 1911, with what research I have done so far. 
Before I strip it and throw it in a soak, I thought I would share some some pics of it to see what you guys think on it. It has two patent dates behind frog, it has Bedrock in front of the knob on toe and 605 on the heel, small depth adjuster wheel, flat top style raised knob receiver, flat tops to the side and adjuster pins/screws. One thing that throws me a little is that the lever cap is smooth. No Stanley, no nothing on it. As I read through the info on bedrock planes, I think it is supposed to say Stanley Bedrock on it.
Mike


----------



## KentInOttawa

*BlasterStumps* My 605 is almost identical to yours, although yours has a nicer tote. Mine also came to me with a smooth lever cap, but I bought a 2-line lever cap for mine. That doubled my investment!

Mine came with an iron with a rare-ish canadian TMT Trademark (http://www.antique-used-tools.com/stantms.htm)


----------



## donwilwol

speaking of nice! The "BLING" is almost to much! (I did say almost)


----------



## theoldfart

Noice Limey 'Arn there Don! looks pristine.


----------



## donwilwol

> Noice Limey Arn there Don! looks pristine.
> 
> - theoldfart


I don't believe it's ever seen a piece of wood.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Yeah Don, that's a beauty.

Kent the blade on this 605 is most likely not original along with lever cap and chip breaker, but no matter. I have it tuned and sharpened now and really like the plane as is. Some day I might just get lucky and find another BR with the correct parts. I didn't have any BR planes for a number of years and all of a sudden they are showing up. Maybe next I will find a smoother. : )

Cool trademark on that blade of your's too. 
Mike


----------



## chrisstef

My goodness yoda.


----------



## TheFridge

It is fine.


----------



## bobasaurus

Don, that is awesome. Is this plane still being made? How old is your example?

Here is a question, why is this stanley plane going for so much:

https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/49457202

? Seems like a lot for a post-war stanley in not-so-great shape.


----------



## bobasaurus

And just to contribute, here is a pic of my unmarked Scottish infill cleaning up some cocobolo:


----------



## BlasterStumps

Allen, I believe the reason that people are in a frenzy over it is that it is a 4 1/2. I paid $4 for my type 11. I'm glad I didn't pay more because in reality it's one of my least favorite.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Here is a question, why is this stanley plane going for so much:
> 
> https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/49457202
> 
> ? Seems like a lot for a post-war stanley in not-so-great shape.
> 
> - bobasaurus


Other than being a 4 1/2, not much I can tell making it different than average. All it takes is two that want to tango, right?


----------



## DLK

> Here is a question, why is this stanley plane going for so much:
> 
> https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/49457202
> 
> ? Seems like a lot for a post-war stanley in not-so-great shape.
> 
> - bobasaurus


Thats a Stanley 4 1/2 and I think it's in pretty good shape, just needs a clean and polish. Shipping is quite low at only $3. I think that is a pretty average price. Maybe a low price compared to what they sell on ebay. If he cleaned and polished it up it would go for $80 on ebay.


----------



## DLK

> Allen, I believe the reason that people are in a frenzy over it is that it is a 4 1/2. I paid $4 for my type 11. I m glad I didn t pay more because in reality it s one of my least favorite.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Hmm… my 4 1/2 is among my favorite smoothers. Yours must not be tuned up. 
I estimate I paid $25 but it was in with a bunch of others I bought, so hard to say. 
Also from a garage sale a few years ago, so naturally cheaper than an online auction.


----------



## Mosquito

the 4-1/2 was my favorite smoother, until I got a 5-1/2. I use my LN 164 a lot more often, but the 5-1/2 is still my favorite. Enough so that I keep coming back to the idea of buying an LN 5-1/2 with high angle frog…


----------



## TheFridge

All man ^ to use that


----------



## BlasterStumps

Don writes: ..."Yours must not be tuned up. "

Well, quite. I haven't spent much time on it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The #4 1/2 excels in the face of larger smoothing jobs. A proven winner on Panel Day 2005.


----------



## bandit571

Heft & Hubris in the Dungeon Shop..









Stanley No. 8, Type 7









Little jack plane? Millers Falls No. 14….Type 2









Stanley No. 4, Type 10…..


----------



## donwilwol

> Don, that is awesome. Is this plane still being made? How old is your example?
> 
> - bobasaurus


The plane is still being made, just not as fancy, and this one has a two piece chip breaker which I don't think is being offered anymore.


----------



## DLK

> the 4-1/2 was my favorite smoother, until I got a 5-1/2. I use my LN 164 a lot more often, but the 5-1/2 is still my favorite. Enough so that I keep coming back to the idea of buying an LN 5-1/2 with high angle frog…
> 
> - Mosquito


Interesting. Don W sold me my 5 1/2 with a super cambered iron, cambered so much that I scrub with it. 
I was disappointed at first, but now I kind of like it. If I want to reduce thickness quickly it is what I use.
Perhaps I should buy a second iron and try it as a smoother.


----------



## Bertha

I probably use the 5-1/2 more than the 4-1/2. Both great planes.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Found this Stanley No 4 plane today. It appears to be a type 4. I gave it a close look and it seems to be in good condition except for the tote and knob. The stud for the knob is broken off in the hole and someone put a knob from a block plane there. If you had this plane, would you clean it up or leave it as is? I just don't know about it's value? I'm thinking new furniture out of Cocobolo would look nice on it. : )
Mike


----------



## DLK

Is that really a Stanley 4? Looks different to me. It doesn't seem to have a lateral adjustment lever, nor a frog adjustment screw. If you bought I would make new tote and knob. Are you going to use it or sell it? What did you pay for it?


----------



## Handtooler

Do you have a brass knob screw for it's replacement? Short knob? How long's the blade, several more sharpenings?


----------



## bandit571

Pre-lateral frog….not sure what is behind the knob. Frog seat looks like an old Stanley one….adjuster wheel does have the stamping inside.

IF you can clean out the knob bolt's hole, without stripping it out, yeah fix it up.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here's a couple more pics of it. Buy all indications, it is a type 4. Yes the blade is still quite good. By the looks of the sole and mouth, can't think that it has seen much use for a long long time. I'm fairly sure I can pull the broken stud out if I actually decide to mess with it. Just don't know if I should. I think I do have a short knob although it wouldn't be proper to the type 4. 
Not sure what I want to do with it. It took me a couple looks when I first saw it to figure out what it was. After I realized it was a pre-lateral Stanley, I still had to look at it some more. I still can't believe I found it.


----------



## donwilwol

http://www.timetesatedtools.net/2017/02/05/dating-hand-planes-start-page/

Blaster, take a look, you have a type 2 base. The brass adjuster is type 4 or 5. What does the back of the lever cap look like?

A cool find. Type 4s are fairly common, type 2, not so much.

A nice knob and tote wouldn't hurt, the ones that are on it so not add much value.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I hope this is a good enough pic of the back of the lever cap. I'm terrible at taking pictures. : (
What's the chances that Stanley just used what they had on hand to put the plane together? That might explain the early frog support. I'm going to bookmark your link Don. Thanks for posting it. I have been looking at the Rex Mill type study. 
Mike


----------



## donwilwol

That's a type 7 cap. Looks like you have a bit of a mish mash of parts. The type 2 base still makes it a good find.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Cool Don, thanks for the info. 
If I mess with the broken stud, I will be careful as I can. 
I have no idea at this time what I am going to do with the plane. 
It's fun to see one that old up close. 
I might have to try to replicate a knob. Might be a little hard to make it exact based on pictures alone though.
Mike


----------



## BlasterStumps

Well, it turns out that I made a right dicky doo dah out of indentifying the plane size. I had noticed a number on the bottom of the frog but never thought much about it. Went back out to the shop and took another look and it is a Number 3. Set my No 4 next to this plane and could see instantly I was wrong on the size. The blade is 1-3/4" wide. Gads, I don't know what to say. Man my eyes are bad! : (


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Good (old!) stuff Blaster!

My no. 18 needed an edge, I hadn't messed with it since getting it into the shop a few months ago. Wow, back was bad.










Worked through the DMTs, worked bevel, worked strop.










That's better.


----------



## DLK

That explains why I was confused .


----------



## BlasterStumps

I did some more looking thru the type study on Rex Mill site. There appears to be some confusion there. If the base of the No 3 plane that I found is a type 2, the type study has the wrong picture of the plane casting shown in the type 4 set of pictures. I appreciate that you guys on the forum here have the knowledge and experience to help me wade thru the info. It was the type study pictures that I was going by to determine that this plane was type 4.

After thinking more about what to do with it, I think I am just going to wipe it down with WD-40, put it back together, and put it up on a shelf with the block plane knob on it and all. I have $29/with tax in it so I think I will get that much enjoyment out of just looking at it on occasion. Maybe one day when I am having a good day as far as my eyesight goes, I will tackle removing the broken screw. 
Thanks guys for the help on dating the plane
Mike


----------



## BlasterStumps

Smitty, you have that 18 dialed in. Looks good. I don't think the one I have would cut that nice. 
Mike


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Making a picture frame, partly so I get to use the shoot board and plane.


----------



## TheFridge

I'm so jealous.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It was pine not alder, so, there's that.


----------



## TheFridge

Crisis averted


----------



## theoldfart

and the OH-Riginal box as well, lah dee dah!

Really jealous, as in green.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I guess I'm a bit of a pratt. Said I wasn't going to work on the plane but then I got bored so I grabbed the pre-lateral No 3 and took the broken stud out then found a low knob; and replaced the broken tote. I took my time drilling out the broken stud being sure to stay in the middle and then once started drilled straight in. I used the depth stop on the drill press so I knew I wouldn't go beyond the depth I wanted. Changed to larger bit twice then sprayed it with WD-40 and took it out with an extractor. You can see it in the pics still on the Easyout. 
I put a keen edge on the blade and gave it a go. Still a wonderful old smoother. I'm impressed. I have some stain coming in a day or two that should help the knob quite a bit.


----------



## Handtooler

Wow! She's a beauty. Take great care of that ole tool, and enjoy the use.


----------



## donwilwol

Nice job on the old girl. Eventually your gonna need a rosewood knob though


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks guys. I have four low knobs to choose from that are not on a plane but unfortunately none are rosewood. The only balloon shaped knob I have is on a very early smoother that is in good shape so didn't rob it. I'll keep an eye out for a donor though. I won't be using the plane much and haven't disturbed the patina at all. It should make a good conversation piece in my shop.


----------



## donwilwol

Blaster, since the type 3 was a completely different setup, and lasted only a short time, it's very possible that plane came out if stanley with that frog and base. Obviously the knob was replaced, but the rest could certainly be original.


----------



## BlasterStumps

That's what I was thinking too. 
Thanks Don,
Mike


> Blaster, since the type 3 was a completely different setup, and lasted only a short time, it s very possible that plane came out if stanley with that frog and base. Obviously the knob was replaced, but the rest could certainly be original.
> 
> - Don W


----------



## Bertha

https://www.etsy.com/listing/521219402/millers-falls-900-v-line-with-original?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=vintage&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=woodworking%20tools&ref=sr_gallery-1-20

MF v-line in box $45. I know nothing of MF but I know a box is desirable!


----------



## bandit571

The "V" line used to be called the Mohawk-Shelburne line…..Post WW2 era, late 50s….secondary line of tools. Box? Meh….


----------



## donwilwol

In the shop unsupervised again. Japanning was gone, so it was sandblasted and coated with a machinery clear lacquer. Frog is candy apple red. Knob and tote are bloodwood. Tote was left thick. It's tuned and sharpened.


----------



## TheFridge

You are hereby banished


----------



## terryR

Still undecided. But it's growing on me.


----------



## theoldfart

Absolutely Terry, should fit in to the rural decor nicely  though it will need a still in the back!

I think I hear Copper Head Road…..


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Hello Hand Plane experts!

Any chance you will help out a newbie on wooden planes classify and date a chest of planes I found?










Started a blog here on LJ with details as I did not want to lose information that might get buried in this long thread.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## RWE

Need some advice, opinions. I ran across an Stanley Gage G5 yesterday. I saw some conversation earlier in this thread that indicated some positive views about the plane. It is priced at the high end of what I am used to paying, but I did not know how rare they are ($120). Anyone with experience with the Gage planes have any advice about whether or not to pick it up. I will inspect it a bit closer, but after looking at it yesterday, it was in pretty good condition.


----------



## terryR

Honestly, I would pass on a Gage plane unless it's just for your collection. ANY No.5 will do the same job when tuned for $20.


----------



## RWE

TerryR:

I guess it would be a combination of user/collector status. No pun intended, but I was trying to gauge the rarity of the Gage. It is the first one I have seen. I live in the Southeast and what we have on the Antique Store and Flea market scene around here is probably not what you get in the Northeast and other areas of the country. So I did not want to miss what I consider a rare opportunity. On the other hand, I don't want to be stupid if the planes are not that valuable or good users. I do love the block plane adjustment mechanism and if the Gage works well like that, it might be worth getting soaked on the price.


----------



## terryR

Dude, I live in Alabama. I quit looking locally for antique tools years ago, so I feel your pain. 

That $120 is about right for being in an antique store I suppose. I paid just a bit less for my two Gages since they came from other LJ's. I'd probably spurge and buy the G5 you've seen if I saw it live in a store. One thing for sure, their value will increase due to rarity.


----------



## RWE

Dude I am talking about Alabama. I am from Birmingham and I found the plane while visiting my daughter in Huntsville. I actually ran across a #8 Keen Kutter, 2 Stanley #7's, a couple of Stanley 6's and some jacks and smoothers in Anniston a couple of days ago. There is an old fellow there, 87 years young, that had a booth in one of the flea market/antique store locations. I asked him about handsaws and he said come by my house and check them out, I only have about 400 or so. Anyway, the wife was around, so having a Bedrock 8 that I love, i passed on the 7's. It was so rare to see something other than a 4 or a 5 in the wild around here. I got the fellow's phone number and plan to go by and see him soon about saws. I did pick up a Victor smoother from him ($25) to put on the shelf probably. It is the 1953 model, the last of the series. Great prices on the 7's, at $65.00. Once was good and clean, the other would have been a user, but had a chip out of the side (metal) that took away from it, but probably did not hurt the performance.


----------



## terryR

very cool. I live in the mountains, not far from Scottsboro. Used to live in huntsville.

How awesome that you met an old timer with tools! Treat him right.


----------



## RWE

He is already too low on his prices. I asked for his phone number and he stated "I don't keep a phone". Drew me a map to his house and stated come by at 6 in the morning or 6 at night and I will be there, or at noon. Otherwise he is out looking for tools. So, I got his daughter's phone number (who runs an antique store) and I will be sure to get "permission" to visit the old fellow. At 87 he seemed sharper than me at 66. I will treat him right. He may take advantage of me in my old age.


----------



## donwilwol

I've got several gages for sale.

http://www.timetestedtools.net/items-for-sale/

They are ok as users, but can take some getting used to


----------



## RWE

Don W

I referred to your site when I picked up the Victor smoother last weekend. I think you made my mind up. I will deal with you sometime in the near future. I think the mechanism for the Gage plane would be better suited for a smoother. Also, I have considered picking up a transitional, which I do not own. The Gage jack is nice, but a little too rich for my hobby money. I had forgotten about your for sale page. Like I was telling TerryR, seeing something other than a jack or smoother in the wild around here gets my blood pumping.


----------



## donwilwol

i recently sold a G6 that I tuned as a jack. That worked really well. As a jack there is nothing to get used to.


----------



## Straust

Just got finished restoring a Stanley Bailey No5 I am pretty sure it is a type 19. I might shine up the sides a bit more but, I sure had a blast bringing this plane back to life.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Just finished the Stanley 71 that I had purchased a couple weeks back. I soaked it overnight in Evapo-Rust. I did not expect to see much of the nickel plating left since the plane had all that rust but, surprise, surprise it's still there. 
Here's a before and after:


----------



## BillWhite

Were the parts with the plane or do ya have to search for them? Great resto.
Bill


----------



## BlasterStumps

Hi Bill, 
Thanks again for the shoe Bill. I'll probably order a depth stop rod in the near future. 
All that is shown in the picture is what came with the plane. 
Mike


----------



## Johnny7

Nice save Bill


----------



## DanKrager

Well, I was careless and learned something today. I try not to be careless.

I'm working with QSWO which is nearly as hard and heavy as osage orange. I designed this project to use some sliding dovetails. I was all prepared to use a utility knife to score and clean out the corner that I've been having trouble with because the nicker didn't seem to be doing the job. I started the first stroke at the far side to establish the first score, and took the first pass. The corner was sharp. Second pass the chips were not cut off until I drew the plane backwards and it cut them cleanly. So each stroke I dragged the plane backwards and the scoring knife cut cleanly every time. In six round trips I was at full depth cross grain in QSWO! There were several ends to do so I was careful to keep the same technique and it worked perfectly. Now I'm wondering, given the tendency for these nickers to retreat into the body skate on the push stroke, if they weren't designed to cut on the pull stroke. It sure seemed that way today.










Edit: the piece in the picture is technically rift sawn red oak and I'm using it as a secondary wood where it will never be seen.

DanK


----------



## bobasaurus

> Just finished the Stanley 71 that I had purchased a couple weeks back. I soaked it overnight in Evapo-Rust. I did not expect to see much of the nickel plating left since the plane had all that rust but, surprise, surprise it s still there.
> Here s a before and after:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BlasterStumps


This is a great restoration. Never tried evapo-rust, but it seems to work great here.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks bobasaursu. It was a fun one.

DanK, nice work. You have that plane cutting pretty nice. 
Mike


----------



## duckmilk

This brings up a question, if evapo-rust didn't harm the nickel, would citrus leave it alone as well?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Don't know "duckmilk" about the citrus, although I did try some GOJO hand cleaner with very little noticeable improvement in getting the rust off.

Thought I would mention something else about this early version 71. This is one of those 'believe it or not' deals so hang on…
I can't tell you why this is but, this old 71 seems to me to be a much nicer router plane to use than a much later version I have. Can't explain the difference but this one just works (and feels) so much nicer. I even switched the blade over to the newer 71 thinking maybe my sharpening was the diff but can't say that I believe that to be so. As it seems with a lot of tools, planes, drills, hammers, saws, etc., there is usually one that will stand out from the many. This old router is simply a joy to use. All I can think is that the folks designing and making the tools way back when really new what they were doing and it is obvious they didn't scrimp on quality. Everyone will have their favourite and for this tool, this one will undoubtably be mine.


----------



## bandit571

Random plane picture..









Might have this set up about right? Wards ( Stanley) 78..









Rebate for a plywood back on a case…


----------



## BlasterStumps

You do some good work Bandit. Thanks for sharing the pictures. The last housing joints I made, one end was wider than the other. I wasn't paying close enough attention to how I was pushing on the plane. Finally decided to put my 78 back on the self and grabbed the wooden plane with the shop-made moveable fillister and straightened out the rabbet. Your last picture shows you have the technique figured out. Good job. 
Mike


----------



## donwilwol

> This brings up a question, if evapo-rust didn t harm the nickel, would citrus leave it alone as well?
> 
> - duckmilk


Citric acid will not usually hurt nickel. Just keep in mind it's an acid, so it does eat metal, not just rust, but it eats rust faster. Caution.


----------



## TheFridge

I thought you pull back first to score then forward to take a shaving? Rinse and repeat?


----------



## bandit571

Across the grain…yes. WITH the grain, no spur is used, so just push along, no need to score anything.

ps: IF your left thumb isn't sore from using this plane,....you were holding it wrong. Left hand's fingers keeps pressure on the fence, thumb "rest" is in the little cave up front, where the bull nose section is….


----------



## CO_Goose

Came across this one on a garage sale website. I guess this one falls under the nightmare category of your dreams.










Would you categorize this as a transitional?


----------



## theoldfart

It adds new meaning to Frankenplane!


----------



## donwilwol

Stop by the NWA show in Saratoga NY next weekend (Mar 24-25) and say hello. I'll have a display at MWTCA booth.

Doing a little rehearsal.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, I'm going to try and get there. I need a break from packing!


----------



## Johnny7

> Would you categorize this as a transitional?
> 
> - CO_Goose


That is a Japanese plane-a model Zero from the Kamikaze tool company.
In this photo it has successfully dive-bombed an English smoother


----------



## tshiker

Don, I'm going to try and make it as well. Have to see what the weather brings. Oldfart maybe we'll meet again! What day do you plan on going? I'll be there on Saturday if I go.


----------



## theoldfart

TS, not sure yet. Still figuring out my schedule.


----------



## bobasaurus

Found this on ebay, nice:


----------



## derekcohen

Well, it's a while since I posted. Here is the start of a series I am doing on the Veritas Combination Plane ..










Playing perfect dados: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasCombinationPlane-dados.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## bobasaurus

Thanks for the update, Derek. Always like reading your articles. I have a 45 and 55 but still I long for this plane.


----------



## derekcohen

A couple of travishers (different radii) recently built for windsor chairs ….










Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## Mosquito

Despite its shortcomings, I still want a Veritas combination plane. Good tool.

But on the 'dream' side of things… This is the only type (sub-type, really) that I don't have in my collection, that's actually known to exist, and practical (Type 7A was a prototype, so not likely going to ever see one come across my shop, and Type 18 is long argued to only have existed in theory). Looks like a normal #45, but it's actually an aluminum version, and even with box. I've got a Type 19A, which is this same plane, but with 'A45' cast into it. This one is just cast '45', as it was an earlier version, before they changed the castings over. How many kidneys do I need?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanley-A-45-Plane-Aluminum-Frame/323173107486


----------



## theoldfart

I think your two kidneys plus several from your family ought to cover it!


----------



## JayT

Save your kidneys, Mos. You just need to cut back on non-essential purchases for a few months, like groceries, electricity and heat.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks like 'Make Offer' is what the Dr. ordered!


----------



## Mosquito

lol more like Mortgage Jay. Can I skip a month with out getting in trouble? :-D

I'd be no where near what even just the plane is worth by itself, and I don't think his price is out of line at all. I've not seen one with a box in that nice of shape yet, and the last one that sold on eBay was $1300 with no box and no where near as nice: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Stanley-A45-a-45-Sweetheart-combination-plane-14-cutters-aluminum-1922-vtg-/173085594081


----------



## DLK

Hey, as I recall, your wife is a nurse or medical technician. I bet she knows where you can get some used kidneys to restore. A little evaporust and some scrubbing and you can sell them on ebay and make enough scratch to buy that "A" 45..


----------



## duckmilk

> Found this on ebay, nice:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bobasaurus


That is really cool Allen. 1) Is there a maker name? 2) Is it yours or just a pic of the listing?

Edit: Nevermind, just found the listing.


----------



## Mosquito

Been a while, and I was experimenting with a replacement iron and Keen Kutters. Seeing if the KK series of handplanes would fit a Lie-Nielsen/Woodriver/Veritas replacement iron, which are .140" thick instead of .08" thick like a 'normal' Stanley iron. My thinking was since the Keen Kutters use thicker tapered irons maybe it would fit with out having to file open the mouth of the plane like on a Stanley plane. It worked, even with the original chip breaker. The yoke was long enough to reach it still, because it was designed for the thicker iron, which is what I was testing. Then I decided I might as well tune up the plane (#6), and see if I've still got it…

Cherry .0025" 









Pine .0015" 













https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WCbOpe9h5o​


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, it actually sounds better than a stock cutter!


----------



## bigblockyeti

Looks like you're just about ready to join the samurai carpenter the next time he heads to Japan at the thin plane shaving competition.


----------



## Mosquito

I agree Kevin, haven't heard that sweet song in a while…

LOL bigblock, I don't think I have the right plane for that adventure. I heard they make you pull the planes


----------



## bobasaurus

Mos, the sounds your plane makes in the video are really satisfying. You should sell a CD of just planing sounds to fall asleep to, like whale songs.

Interesting little scraper plane I found on ebay:


----------



## Mosquito

lol let's form a woodworking band… only woodworking sounds!

That is an interestingly tiny scraper. Pretty neat though


----------



## CFrye

Any idea on the maker of the scraper, Allen? It is beautiful!!


----------



## bobasaurus

I've lost the link now, sadly. Somehow came up when randomly browsing ebay tools.


----------



## Johnny7

Here ya go:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MINIATURE-hand-plane-custom-B-ROBBINS-infill-miniature-scraper-plane-Brass/392012618188?hash=item5b45c5d9cc:g:xPIAAOSw6TRaw4q2


----------



## TedT2

Anyone need a set of molding planes? There is a large set on EBay….I am trying to figure out how to link it.


----------



## TedT2

See if this works

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F152972801067


----------



## DLK

Good price, but fortunately none are the maker I collect, else I'd be broke.


----------



## TedT2

I would love to have them. I don't have any yet but I sure look on my rust hunting expeditions.


----------



## TedT2

I'm not sure this is a hand plane of my dreams but was probably my best find in the wild. It is pretty rusty but I am holding out hope that it is not pitted too badly. This is my first Bedrock….it is a 603….I paid next to nothing for it. I found it at a flea market and paid his asking price…


----------



## DLK

From what I can see I think it will cleanup nicely.


----------



## RWE

I congratulate you on the find. The only Bedrock I own is a #8 (608 I believe on that numbering style). I have read all of the pros and cons on the quality of the normal Stanley planes versus the Bedrock, but I like that 608 better than any of the other's that I own.

Over on the saw thread, there has been some discussion on using various sanding techniques on saw plates. I piped in about the Porter Cable Restorer and 80 grit Scotch Brite pads. I cleaned up a little Victor #1104 to a mirror shine. I do have an early Stanley jack that despite multiple sandings, restorer sessions etc. continues to develop rust on the sides/cheeks because the pitting was too deep. I don't use it, so I just pull it off of a display shelf and clean it ever so often.

I have a friend that has a keepsake jack plane that belonged to his father. He finally got out a belt sander and has begun working over the sides to grind off enough material to get rid of the pitting. He has one side worked over and so far it is not developing rust, while the other side will get rust in a couple of days. so the belt sander probably finally got the pitting layer smoothed out it seems.

So in the worse case, you might have to be proactive about resanding the sides periodically, or you can try a more aggressive sanding attack. It looks to me that it may clean up ok anyway. Good luck.


----------



## TedT2

I am pretty excited about it….it only set me back $5. I was shocked when he told me what he wanted for it….


----------



## CRAIGCLICK

I would love to own a couple of hand planes…but they are crazy expensive…even the ratty looking ones on ebay. And I am scared of buying a cheap new one.

It seems like all the old carpenters have passed on and you rarely see them at yard or estate sales anymore.


----------



## RWE

You will have better luck at Flea Markets and Antique stores. The Antique stores that have multiple vendors that lease booths will often have one or two booths that feature old tools. A lot depends on the area of the country where you live. Northeast, dime a dozen. Southeast, dime a piece. (not being literal of course) Not sure about other areas. I am in the Southeast and I see handplanes all the time. If you are new to handplanes, you can buy a project plane and get a good user. Handles/totes are repairable. Make sure the parts are there and that the blade is not too pitted, particularly near the bevel and you can make it work, even if it is ugly. GEt in and learn. It takes some time to learn to properly sharpen and set one up, but after you do one, it will open the door for other. Look for a jack, a Smoother and a a block and you will most of your needs taken care of.

I consider $20 to $30 a good price for smoothers and jacks.


----------



## DLK

> I would love to own a couple of hand planes…but they are crazy expensive…even the ratty looking ones on ebay. And I am scared of buying a cheap new one.
> 
> It seems like all the old carpenters have passed on and you rarely see them at yard or estate sales anymore.
> 
> - CRAIGCLICK


I used to think that way, but I kept my eyes open and within 4 short years I ended up with 5 times as many planes as I needed. In fact I traded six smoothing planes (I got for $15 each) for a nicely restored number 6. I thought I would never find good chisels but then sure enough I did. If I can find them in the Keweenaw peninsula of Michigan, then you can find them in North Carolina. You just need to broaden your search.


----------



## DLK

*RWE* if your friend will use a soak method such as evap-o-rust or electrolysis, he can get the rust out of the pits. He also needs to sand to a finer grit. Once done add a thin coat of wax or oil, and recoat after each use. Rust will not likely come back.


----------



## theoldfart

"out a belt sander and has begun working over the sides to grind off enough material to get rid of the pitting"

I'd be careful about the amount material he takes off, pitting on the side while unsightly does not affect the planes performance. If those pits are deep he could weaken the plane. Even on the base a little pitting won't degrade performance that much. Avoid being a "Buff Daddy"!


----------



## bandit571

This one will take a bit of work…









Traded for a Stanley #60-1/2 today….all parts are there..









Rather messy….









Three items that came home with me, today. Will see how long it takes to rehab a block plane, this time…


----------



## DLK

Kevin, who can forget "Buff Daddy's" greatest hits:

I'll Be restoring You

Mo Money Mo Planes

Shake Ya Toolfeather

Can't Nobody use my Holdfast

Buff, Buff, Buff


----------



## bandit571

Took almost as long to sharpen the iron, as it did to clean up the plane..









Stanley # 60-1/2..









Topside view..









Knob is loosing a bit of plating…Now, about that box?









Seems I have a second #60-1/2 block plane…









Slight differences….









But not a whole lot..









This came in the mail ( Thank you, FESTUS!) so it was used to sharpen the irons…one was getting a bit worn, anyway. Same price for both planes….all I had to do was haul each of them home…


----------



## adot45

> I'm not sure this is a hand plane of my dreams but was probably my best find in the wild. It is pretty rusty but I am holding out hope that it is not pitted too badly. This is my first Bedrock….it is a 603….I paid next to nothing for it. I found it at a flea market and paid his asking price…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - TedT2


Ted, how long is your 603? If you don't mind.
David


----------



## TedT2

My 603 in 9 1/16 from the front to the back of the bump out for the tote….I hope that helps Adot45


----------



## Boatman53

I know I offered this up a while ago, but I've been busy packing up the house and shop and looking for a new home. Anyway if anyone needs this part for a router plane it's your for the shipping. Send me a PM.










Jim


----------



## adot45

Yes it does Ted thanks for putting that up so quickly. I just picked up a 603c myself yesterday and it`s 9 1/4" overall.
The guides I've seen say it is 8 inches…? Hence the (my) confusion.


----------



## JohnDi

PM sent for router part


----------



## Boatman53

Router part is spoken for thanks John.
Jim


----------



## TedT2

So my Bedrock 603 is looking like a type 6b since it has the V logo on the iron. What types are the most desirable Bedrocks? I'm just curious as I have not decided whether to keep or sell this one.


----------



## bandit571

May take a few more coats…rebuild is about done…









New handle, new wedges (3) and a new fence….shavings?









It makes a curl, that exits out the right side of the plane..









Original was made in Cincinnati, OH..back in the 1860s….there MIGHT be a Match plane out there, somewhere…


----------



## BlasterStumps

More on the Stanley No 3 pre-lateral…

I decided to clean up this old plane due to the fact that 99% of the japanning was gone and nearly 100% of the rust was present. Anyway, took it apart and put it in an evaporust soak. After taking it out and further cleaning it up, I can see what looks to me like a 7 3 up by the knob location and a 7 1 back at the tote location. They are ever so lightly stamped into the bed, or were foundry markings.

When I noticed the 73 and 71, I looked at the Rex Mill type study info again. I found where they mention those markings in the type 4 stuff. Weird. The base of the plane looks like a type 2, the frog looks like the one that came after the "type 3" weird frog. Who knows. : (


----------



## Tim457

The type studies are based on No. 4's. Other models can vary more and Stanley didn't produce planes by type study anyway, they just used parts they had available.


----------



## WayneC

Mmmmm. Bedrocks.


----------



## FoundSheep

That's an awesome plane Bandit! I like the look of wooden grooving planes, been looking for a match set myself.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

I found this listing on the bay;









Then this photo caught my eye in the listing,









The seller was like most and only listed the blade manufacture instead of the plane maker. This is my first Carter and a good buy @ $38.


----------



## WayneC

Beautiful.


----------



## Bertha

Nice little coffin, for sure.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

Ive always wanted one of Bill Carters small mitre planes but couldn't afford one. This one will have to do, a rare catch and will only go up in value.


----------



## bobasaurus

Wow, a Carter. Which one is his makers mark on there? One of his miniature miter planes came up at a local auction, went for over a grand. I got to pick it up and look at it at least.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

Allen, he has several. He took a picture of all of his marks stamped on one of his mallets.


----------



## Bertha

He has a link somewhere to his buddy that makes the stamps. A Carter mitre made from an old saw is the bees' knees, or cat's pajamas, whichever you prefer. It's up there on my most desired list.


----------



## bandit571

A few other sites have been asking about a #5-1/2 plane…..decided to get mine back up to speed..
Back of the iron is now flat, 25 degree bevel has been sharpened up.

Chipbreaker was bowed a bit….hammer to "un-bow" it,,,, then treat the edge until no gaps were seen between the cb and the iron,,,,got out a scrap board for a test drive..









Iron has no camber to it….more of a smooth plane…like the Stanley #4 behind it.









Chipbreaker is set 1mm back from the edge..will save this for doing panels..


----------



## bandit571

That #5-1/5 is a Type 17…..the Stanley #4 behind it is a Type 10….


----------



## BillWhite

Bandit, my #5 1/2 is one of my favs for sure. Flat grind w/ relieved corners. Works like a champ.


----------



## bobasaurus

Planing pine is pretty fun, getting perfectly straight shavings for some reason:










Rainbow poplar is fun too:


----------



## theoldfart

I like the sound of poplar when planed with sharp cutter. Pine will do too!


----------



## bobasaurus

I had to sharpen up my skew block to slice the poplar end grain properly… was just getting dust before. Got to try out my new atoma 400 stone for flattening my shaptons, seems to work great.


----------



## DLK

Quick green wood question. Snow broke off some limbs from an ornamental tree we have. So I have some "limbs" that re 2 to 3 inches in diameter. Any ideas of what I can do with them?


----------



## Absoluterock

Truly amazing.


----------



## DanKrager

In the past, Combo, I have sliced them into thin 1/8" cookies and dried them carefully in a press. If oiled with linseed, or other non drying oil, or even presoaked overnight in concentrated antifreeze, they won't tear themselves apart with cracks. A few might, but such is life. Then cut them into regular hexagons or such and make a veneer of them. They are pretty striking that way. If you cut the cookies at an angle, say up to 45°, then they are less prone to cracking, and the resulting veneer even more striking. It's been a long time since I did that, but it was fun.

DanK


----------



## RWE

Combo:

If the grain and color in the limbs is "worthy", use them for pen blanks, assuming you have a lathe and turn wood. You can cut them close to pen blank size and then microwave them to dry them before final sizing. Just pick a time to microwave them when the missus is out shopping. I am not sure what else you could do with small limbs.


----------



## JADobson

> Combo:
> 
> If the grain and color in the limbs is "worthy", use them for pen blanks, assuming you have a lathe and turn wood. You can cut them close to pen blank size and then microwave them to dry them before final sizing. Just pick a time to microwave them when the missus is out shopping. I am not sure what else you could do with small limbs.
> 
> - RWE


I did this with a branch from a crab apple tree. One of my favourite non-burl pens.


----------



## DLK

Did that include the pith?


----------



## JADobson

Nope. The branch was about 2" wide. I cut it in half and then used a half to make the blank.


----------



## JADobson

Getting a bit off topic here though  
To bring it back let me just say that my Veritas LAJ is easily the handplane of my dreams right now. Trimming the end grain projections on my Roubo bench build right now. Cuts beautifully.

Carry on gentlemen.


----------



## DLK

Sorry, I posted my original question in the wrong forum by mistake. But we are all the same people in each of the hand tool forums.


----------



## bandit571

May need a plane , later..









Once I get these things done, then I can plane the bottom panel for width…









Panel has a knot hole on one edge…..


----------



## BlasterStumps

Looks good Bandit. You're one busy guy.

I found this "thing" the other day and it followed me home. I can see it makes a 3/16" groove but what on? The sole is curved slightly and; it has a moveable fence or guide which can be set up on either side of the cutter. No maker's information anywhere on it that I can see. Last picture shows the cutter leaning up against the tool. Overall, it is probably 14". Unhandy dang thing on flat stock but I keep thinking it was made to cut a groove for a round lid or bottom. Anyone seen one like it before?
Mike


----------



## theoldfart

Looks like some sort of carriage makers plane


----------



## Boatman53

I agree with Kevin.
Jim


----------



## ThePeoplesWoodshop

My stanley liberty bell No. 129 transition plane.

Honestly I don't quite understand why some people have a problem with these old transitions. I love this plane and it works like a dream!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ I have no idea how that #129 works without a cutter! Perhaps I should revisit trannys… it'd sure cut down on the sharpening time!
.
.
.
;-)


----------



## ThePeoplesWoodshop

lol also the frog doesn't need any screws to hold in on either


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Bloody Amazing!


----------



## bandit571

Had a molding to make…









Took four steps to make, two planes..









Step one: Bead cutter in the Stanley #45









Step 2: A custom ground cutter in the 45…









Step 3: a rebate with the Stanley/Wards #78..









Mark a line and saw off the molding 









I also cleaned up the saw marks with a Millers Falls No. 8
Along with the saw marks on a divider..









First molding was done on some scrap Pine, then the "real" molding was made out of this fancy pine..









Will see how many "sticks" I can get out of this…..


----------



## chrisstef

Was shooting the breeze with my concrete cutting guy today and he tells me he found an old post drill in his wifes grandfathers barn. Then the dude drops this on me:










Gun metal #44. Getthafuggouttaheyyah.


----------



## ToddJB

Drops it on you? As in, gives it to you?


----------



## bobasaurus

Wow, a miller's patent plow in the wild. Rare find.


----------



## chrisstef

Nah. I could only wish. I told him i was into old woodworking stuff and he said "i got the holy grail", i called BS, then he sent me that pic. B&G says it was only made for 1 year. I thought it was a #55 initially and had to look it up.

He's missing the correct rod bolts / screws though. Not sure if they were thumb screws or not. Told him to talk to Yoda. So if you get an email from a guy named Ben, Don, i sent him your way.


----------



## theoldfart

Did you at least get the post drill for helpfully advising the young man?


----------



## chrisstef

He had the plane previously OF but i like your angle. He just dug up a picture to show me the goods im not sure where he got the plane. I am definately trying to angle my way into that post drill though. He's kind of a steam punky builder kinda guy. Ive got an easy excuse to go to his shop and tour the goods though.


----------



## theoldfart

I think steam punkers that abuse perfectly good tools should be made to watch daytime tv for 72 hours straight.

Go save that drill Stef.


----------



## chrisstef

No tools will be harmed fart. Ill make sure of tgat.

Maybe industrial would have been a more proper description. Think an old shot up metal milk jug into a lamp.


----------



## theoldfart

Oh, ART! Why didn't you say so. 

I am getting old, 5 o'clock and I'm hammered. Only have till Friday to finish packing, movers are two days early.


----------



## DanKrager

TOF, what if they told you two days early so they'd be sure you're ready on Monday? Or, what if THEY are late, like Wednesday? Just sayin' how the world works.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, please do not speak aloud about such possibilities. The gods of bad luck follow me most of the time, if you say it it will happen!


----------



## DLK

I had a mover call to say he was going to be a few hours late. But I had my crew ready to help with the moving so I had them move everything to the front yard. Then the mover says he would like to come tomorrow. WTF no I said
so he came and loaded late in the evening and past midnight. Unhooked the cab so he use the headlights to shine into the trailer.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

I moved 5 yrs ago, it was one of those horror stories that should be on tv, it was just across town.! Don't want to relive and want Kevin to get his sleep. Hope you have a painless move Kevin. All the Best !!


----------



## Boatman53

Practically moving at the same time Kevin. Movers are coming to my house next Wednesday. I'm am doing my shop and tools myself, I've heard too many horror stories.
Jim


----------



## theoldfart

Now they tell me!


----------



## Boatman53

If I was moving across the country as you are I'd have to use movers. I am moving within driving distance (la long day to be sure) and it will take several trips. Also my shop is not in my house it is in a rented space that doesn't have to be empty when we close. The bad news is I've been running my own business for more that thirty years in a rented shop and it is full of tools I 'might' need on the next job and numerous duplicate tools to on occasion have dedicated machine setups.
Good luck on you move and keep us posted. I hope it all goes smoothly.
Jim


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Jim, there's no way I would try to move myself cross country. Like you i've accumulated a lot of tools. They are my babies, fortunately only a few tailed tools.

Keep us posted o your move as well. I am jealous of your new location, we spend a bit of time in Maine every year. Really good rust hunting there!


----------



## Ripthorn

Just checking in. Been a while since I've been on here, what with selling our house, having a new one built, and craziness at work. I do, however, have materials on hand for two more infill shoulder planes that I will be sure to post about in here once I finally get my act together. Might not be until after we are in the new house and the shop is back up and running, though.


----------



## theoldfart

Just wrapped my last plane to be packed, an infill mitre. All the planes are safely wrapped and stowed in the chest.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Congrats, Kevin! Maybe the moving odds be ever in your favor!!


----------



## DLK

> Congrats, Kevin! Maybe the moving odds be ever in your favor!!
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Did you mean "*May *the moving odds be ever in your favor"? Otherwise its very funny.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Did the keyboard put on the screen what I meant to say? Nope. But Don K did!


----------



## jmartel

Favorite size/cutting angle for a smoother? Don't have a smoother, definitely need one now that I'm able to work on projects again. Not married to vintage vs new as I currently have a mix of both. Prefer something that doesn't require much work to set up due to being short on time these days.


----------



## JayT

For iron planes, a #4 has always been my preferred size. #3's just never fit my hand well and a 4-1/2, while great for large panels, didn't work well in all situations. Now, however, my slightly smaller "peek-a-boo smoother" has become the go to. It uses a #3 size iron and I've found I really like the shape better than a toted plane. I also find the 50 degree angle to be more versatile for hardwoods than the traditional 45 degree bedding that is found on most iron planes.


----------



## bobasaurus

My LN #4 w/ 50 deg frog is my favorite smoother. Wish I could get a PM-V11 blade for it, though, since A2 is kind of brittle and the initial keenness wears off quickly. I've modified mine to have better clearance behind the mouth, and a thinner chipbreaker leading edge.


----------



## donwilwol

My favorite smoother is my 603 and my Sargent 410 and I've got a late made Dunlap with a hockey blade that also kicks ass.

I know… I'm no help.


----------



## Boatman53

Hey Don where did you get the 'hockey' blade. Do they make them for other sports? 
I know who you meant but still funny.
Jim


----------



## DonBroussard

Hey y'all. I saw a Bedrock 605 with the flat top sides and a corrugated sole this afternoon at a flea market. It looked like it only had one patent date, tall knob with intact japanning. The booth owner had $200 on it, but I passed. Do you enablers think I made the right choice? I don't currently own any Bedrocks but I admit I was tempted.


----------



## DLK

It is hard to say. Prices vary so widely. I would have passed on it for $200. I would expect less $$ at a flea market,. They seem to be selling on average between $120 and $180 on eBay. You just need to be in the right place at the right time to get a good deal. I bought a Bedrock 605 Type 16 in July of 2016 for $30 at a garage sale. I stumble into 
it. You look long and hard enough and broaden your scope, eventually you find good deals.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Hi Don, 
Just my opinion but, I think you made the right choice. I bought one recently. It's a nice plane but I have a Sweetheart No 5 that I like just as much. I paid the same amount for each of them. 
Mike


----------



## TheFridge

200$ is a bit much.


----------



## donwilwol

I've got a flattop 605 listed for $150, so yep, $200 is to much.

Jim, you don't use hockey blades? I thought everyone did (damn spell check)


----------



## theoldfart

Does a hockey blade help with checking?


----------



## Mosquito

LOL ToF I like it

As for favorite smoother, right now it's somewhere between my Stanley 5-1/2 with IBC blade, Keen Kutter #6 with IBC blade, or my LN 164


----------



## DonBroussard

Thanks for the feedback on the Bedrock 605. I'll sleep better tonight knowing that my thinking was in line with yours on its pricing. BTW, the shop owner told me that other people have told her that they are not asking enough for the plane.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> BTW, the shop owner told me that other people have told her that they are not asking enough for the plane.
> 
> - Don Broussard


Oh, I'd have to throw the BS flag on that one. A casual "you're not charging enough" wouldn't be spoken if true; they'd buy it themselves and resell if $200 were such a bargain (it's not, IMHO).


----------



## TheFridge

Definitely not a bargain. If you're looking for bedrocks and can't find what you want gimme a shout. I know a fella.


----------



## theoldfart

Favorite smoother is a Moss 4 1/2 with a Hock cutter.


----------



## TheFridge

LN 1. Usually the last plane to touch wood before finishing.


----------



## bobasaurus

I'm surprised you use the LN 1… is it comfortable to handle?


----------



## bandit571

Stanley No. 4, Type 10..or a Millers Falls No. 8, type 2 are the usual suspects for me….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

1s are handled like a block plane and are surprisingly comfortable/responsive to use.


----------



## DLK

My Favorite (Metal) Smoothers are packed up in a box. So sad. But they would be Stanley 4 1/2 , MF 10 and Stanley 4 (type 20). I have a lovely Wooden Nooitgedagt smoother that I enjoy.


----------



## TheFridge

It's kinda meh. Will probably modify the tote to an infilled deal one day but it's ok. It is a tiny bench plane after all. If I could get a comfortable block plane with a cap iron I'd go that route. Until then, the 1 does work.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

How about one like this, Fridge?


----------



## TheFridge

I'll take a freebie smitty 

it's all about the cap iron really. Otherwise I'd just use a regular block


----------



## Mosquito

> Favorite smoother is a Moss 4 1/2 with a Hock cutter.
> 
> - theoldfart


Ha, glad that thing's workin' for ya  That used to be my favorite, until I started using the 5-1/2


----------



## woodcox

A new sweetheart 103 is now clean. I've been around the blocks lately trying to find the wee ones that fit. This one is just right in spite of the adjustment mechanism. I do like it for quickly unsetting the iron before putting it up though. I love the wear to the japanning on it. I think I need to find something squirrel tailed now just to try out.

Also, my cobbled 60 1/2 is functional again with a new maroon bed. I got skunked with my blue one that showed up striped out. I like the weight and small size of that one.


----------



## donwilwol

Woodcox, you need to find a Sargent #206! Best apron plane ever made.


----------



## Bertha

This plane doesn't work right.










https://www.etsy.com/listing/524386954/vintage-stanley-planer-handman-planer?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=woodworking%20tools&ref=sr_gallery-52-34


----------



## donwilwol

It's probably Dull


----------



## DLK

Naw, just has an Australian lever cap.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Lever cap looks like aluminum too. Missing the spring, but nothing a little ingenuity can't fix.
.
.
.
I blow my nose at you, empty-headed, steel frog'd planes of other people's rough bottoms…


----------



## DLK

.... I fart in your direction, your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.

(Only movie I saw 6 times in a theater.)


----------



## duckmilk

Wear an overcoat when you visit his shop Stef. Easier to hide stuff in, well, maybe not a post drill.


----------



## DLK

Could someone please explain this to me. How can it be?


----------



## TheFridge

You should see the sellers other junk at exorbitant prices. For shame.

Now go away. Or I shall taunt you a second time.


----------



## DLK

^ ... what you already got one. Can we see it?


----------



## FoundSheep

There is a "make offer"...


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Could someone please explain this to me. How can it be?
> 
> - Combo Prof


There is no explanation for that. No excuse for it, either.


----------



## theoldfart

Damn heathens.


----------



## DLK

> There is a "make offer"...
> 
> - FoundSheep


Yes but a negative amount doesn't seem to go well.


----------



## FoundSheep

> Yes but a negative amount doesn t seem to go well.
> 
> - Combo Prof


True, we wouldn't want to reward them


----------



## TheFridge

I haggled him down


----------



## donwilwol

Here some Ohio Tools Block plane entertainment." http://www.timetestedtools.net/2018/05/12/ohio-tools-block-planes/":http://www.timetestedtools.net/2018/05/12/ohio-tools-block-planes/


----------



## onoitsmatt

I picked up this odd duck today. It's a brass T- Rabbet plane marked "Geral". It is about 6" long and 1.5" wide.


----------



## jmartel

New toy came in today. Wasn't supposed to show up until Tuesday.


----------



## waho6o9

Congrats jmartel she's a beaut!


----------



## bobasaurus

My favorite plane, love the LN No. 4. What angle frog did you get? I had to do some tweaks to mine, you might want to check out the review I wrote a while back:

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/3507


----------



## TheFridge

That's surprising bob. I have 6 bench planes and shooter and a bunch of others and haven't had a problem. That's disappointing to say the least. To say one thing for their customer service, a buddy lost some tools in a fire and he sent them what was left of his spokeshave. They ended up replacing a couple parts for free.


----------



## jmartel

Allen, I went with the 50 deg angle. I haven't noticed any imperfections with it, but I haven't had the chance to use it yet.


----------



## TedT2

So I am part way in to restoring my 603 Bedrock. It has some pitting which is disappointing. I will show some pictures of my progress and one to show the starting point.


----------



## TedT2

Not sure why the middle picture is sideways…would it help to lap the sides? All I have done is soak it in evaporust and hit it with a brass wire wheel.


----------



## BillWhite

What do you guys know about a "Hercules" plane by Sargent? Don't have it in hand as yet, but looks like a #5 size from pics that that have been sent to me.


----------



## bobasaurus

Wow, that's a great restoration. Did you leave the original japanning?


----------



## TedT2

> Wow, that s a great restoration. Did you leave the original japanning?
> 
> - bobasaurus


I did leave the original japanning. It is probably about 80 percent or so…


----------



## Johnny7

> What do you guys know about a "Hercules" plane by Sargent? Don t have it in hand as yet, but looks like a #5 size from pics that that have been sent to me.
> 
> - Bill White


That was Sargent's lower end plane-positioned to compete with the Stanley Four-Square line.


----------



## Johnny7

.


----------



## donwilwol

> What do you guys know about a "Hercules" plane by Sargent? Don t have it in hand as yet, but looks like a #5 size from pics that that have been sent to me.
> 
> - Bill White


The early Hercules.were very good. As with everything else they declined in later years but can still be pretty decent users with some tuning.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have a new project plane. Picked it up at a community yard sale for $5. It appears to be a type 9, 7C. It does have a patent date stamped on the lateral lever however. A hold over from the type 8's possibly. Everything else matches a type 9. Anyway, it is in good condition, although it will get a soak in the evaporust. Needs the horn fixed on the tote but that shouldn't be too hard to do. The tote hasn't been broken, just some dark ring on there makes it look like that.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Cleaned the no 7 a little. So I thought I would share another couple pictures. One more thing about this plane that doesn't seem to fit the type study is that the brass nuts for the knob and tote do not have a waist. they are straight sided. More hold over parts I assume.


----------



## BlasterStumps

: )

https://www.etsy.com/listing/616759017/stanley-no-64-butcher-block-plane-with?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=stanley%20plane&ref=sr_gallery-7-39


----------



## CL810

Oh my!!! Looks sooo good!


----------



## bandit571

Heft & Hubris…









Working down four legs for a table..









Cardio Workout..
.


----------



## bandit571

Two yard sale…+ $8.35..=









$7 for the mitre box and saw…..handful of change for the Millers Falls No. 14…

Slow day..


----------



## BillWhite

Got the Hercules/Sargent, and it is now set up as a scrub. All the bones were there. Just needed a "pretty-up", and grinding the camber (8").
Really works well.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Well gads, where's the pictures? : )


> Got the Hercules/Sargent, and it is now set up as a scrub. All the bones were there. Just needed a "pretty-up", and grinding the camber (8").
> Really works well.
> 
> - Bill White


----------



## bandit571

While doing the rehab on that jack plane…..









This is the logo side of the iron….









Yet the chipbreaker is on the bevel side?....may have been used once or twice…then sat on a shelf ever since..









Yep, those are the handle bolts….they were even "blued" ....may re-blue them, later..









Ever wonder what to use, to colour that "Millers Falls" logo…..call Cardinal Red…flow it on to the logo, then after the paint is dry, buff things down to reveal the logo…









handles were a Stained Hardwood…I stripped off what was left of the old finish, and restained them. May get a thin coat of poly, later….waiting on the painted stuff to dry…


----------



## bandit571

Paint was dry today..iron has been sharpened to 2K grit and stropped..









Not too bad, for a jack plane?









A type 3 and a type 4….









Bad bad, for a $1.35 plane?


----------



## adot45

Very nice job…...nah, I don't think you overpaid.


----------



## bandit571

Rust Hunting was skimpy, again…..









$8? Of the 5 planes on their table..this was about the best of them…









Circle logo, Sargent style…









Underneath the lever cap…408…..about a #3 sized plane…









Cleaned up nice enough…..washers on the frog bolts were rusted to the bolts….cleaned those up…









Along with the frog….wheel had three bands, and is left-hand thread.









Still need to sharpen the iron…..and find a proper front knob….using a "stand-in" for now..









Will do, for now…


----------



## donwilwol

Looks like you have a Sargent plane with a Union frog Bandit. Knob and tote are not original to the Sargent either. That's a t-2 base so they would be rosewood if original.


----------



## bandit571

Rear IS rosewood…knob is a "loaner" until I can find the proper one….

So..how would a union frog wind up on a sargent plane?

Logo on the iron is a circle style. 408 on the base, 408 under the lever cap.

Plane was bought as is….frog looked like it had been there a LONG time.


----------



## donwilwol

Sargent never made a washer type lateral. Both type 2 & 3 Sargent would have a spot for the horseshoe lateral. Type three went to a folded formed end, but the circular spot where the horseshoe used to exist was still there in the frog.

The tote does have the Sargent shape.

Edited. It was type 3 that went to the folded end.


----------



## donwilwol

I typically Google a name when I find it on a tools. No need on this one!!


----------



## bandit571

Pivot point would be wrong if it was a Union one.


----------



## bandit571

Frog is from a Union No. 5A










And these are from a #4 and a #3 Union planes….

Strange that someone would only replace the lever …....and, change the pivot point….


----------



## bandit571

Ok…after do a little looking around….iron has the early circle logo, with USA in a little box….Lever cap: 408 cast in the underside. with the dot/hole. Rear handle IS Rosewood. Front knob was MIA. other than the post. Brass nut for the rear handle is a long cylinder.

base is a Type 2…..has the 408 on a small boss.

Frog MAY be from Ohio Tool Co.,,,as it is similar to the 0-7 and 0-35 frogs I have in the shop. Bolt that holds the chipbreaker to the iron has no knurlings, nor any beveled edges.

Frog bolts: not rounded, but flat on top. Area without threads under the heads.,....washers were rusted to the bolts.

There is a gap under the front of the frog, as there isn't any "ramp" for it to sit on.
$8 plane…may just sharpen the iron up, and use it….


----------



## bandit571

To install a correct frog, AND the correct knob…would cost more than I paid for the plane….I'll just sharpen the pitting-free 1901 iron, and put it to work. It can give my Millers Falls No. 8 a rest.


----------



## bobasaurus

Bought this for all of $5 yesterday, a Bailey No. 29 transitional fore plane:










Top of the tote is broken, and a couple small cracks in the body but otherwise in great shape. Japanning looks perfect (though a bit dirty). Never used a transitional before, should be fun. It looks like someone varnished the body, I'll probably remove it and refinish with oil.


----------



## bandit571

Iron has been sharpened…test drive..









Seems to be able to make a shaving, or two…


----------



## BenDupre

Forgive me if this is misposted, but I came across this collection on the Chicago Craigslist and I thought if there was one person out there that would be a potential buyer for this collection, then he/she is probably a subsrciber to this forum. Check it out:

https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tld/d/planes-lot-of-vintage-planes/6591693693.html

Happy Planing

Ben


----------



## BlasterStumps

Unless there is something special about one or more of those planes, I'd say the best of it is the North bros drill.


----------



## bandit571

Random plane picture…









Since I was beveling a board the way Sellers does, might as well use a Made in England Stanley….a #4c size.









later, I got out the #4, T-10..


----------



## bandit571

Like I really "needed" another plane…









This one called my name at a yard sale yesterday….tried three times to just walk away from it….wound up paying the $4 for it..









Millers Falls No. 900…..I did notice while cleaning the rust off the iron, it was called "Solid Tool Steel" and was even thicker than that 1901 Sargent iron I had handy….

Plane had rusted, due to the owner leaving it out on a table ( during another sale) and a rain shower came by.
Otherwise, plane is like new….1959-ish? Before they added an 8 to the number (8900)


----------



## bandit571

And…after a bit of rehab tonight…









Cleaned up and the iron sharpened….just a $4 plane…









And test drive on a chunk of Ash.

Millers Falls No. 900.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Good find Bandit. I like the tote on that 900. Looks comfortable to hold on to. I have an 8 that I like but my hand is too big for the tote so I tried making one a little taller. Here is my second attempt at it.


----------



## RWE

Here is a picture of my 900. I believe it may be the last year that they made them because of the black handle color and the sides for several years were painted. I have a small collection of 60's planes that I have picked up and refurbed. I have a couple of block planes to finish up and then I will try to post some pictures. I use them for shelf decoration, although a couple might be good users. I was born in 1952 so the 60's planes kind of show the state of the tool world during my early years when I fell in love with saws and planes.

See the link below for some history. Mine is a V-Line model. I went to a model and hobby store and painted it "Battleship Grey" which was the closest color I could come up with.










http://oldtoolheaven.com/bench/economyplanes.htm


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nicely done RWE. Looks better than brand new. You must be like me in that you enjoy fixing up old tools too. Cool. 
Mike


----------



## adot45

Great job guys, I really like seeing pics of restored planes. This Millers Falls looks like it's really solid and stout.


----------



## RWE

I picked up this Union #22 8 inch long smoother. It is the first transitional that I have picked up.

Before:









After:









I do have a problem that I would appreciate some ideas concerning the best way to resolve it. The 22 was in the best shape of any transitional I have found as far as the wood body. However, after all the refub, I discovered that the front of the mouth had breakout and small tearout (probably two or three dings about 1/4 inch or less long and 1/16 inch deep). So shavings clog up and get compressed into the tear out dings.

Don or other Union guys: I have thought of sawdust mixed in epoxy to make a paste and fill in the nicks in the mouth opening (front leading edge). I have thought of chiseling out a rectangle and epoxying in a bit of persimmon or other hardwood. In both cases, epoxy and sawdust or a block of wood, I would chisel and or file/sand it flat to match the bottom and and the slope. Also, I am thinking this is beech, but if some of you guys that know Unions, know the wood, let me know. I have some old saw handles where I might get some beech, but I am inclined to using the persimmon.

Anyone that has recommendations for the best technique to repair the leading edge of a wood planes mouth, chime in.

Thanks


----------



## BillWhite

Do you have the persimmon? If not, I'll send you a piece.


----------



## RWE

Thanks Bill. I have some. I have a buddy who is a tree surgeon and who cuts up "interesting" trees using a bandsaw mill. I make things for him and we barter. So I have more wood than I have ideas or time to deal with. I air dry the wood, so it takes a year or longer, but it keeps coming in. I have some Mimosa that has a nice Walnut like brown color, highly toxic, and I keep trying to figure out a project to use it on.

Persimmon warps and twists as it dries, but it works well. I just figured it would be good to use on a wooden plane.


----------



## terryR

RWE, the best way to repair the mouth of a wooden plane, just as you expected,










Any hard, straight grained wood will do fine. Beech would be my first choice, too.

Here's a dude on LJ that did it,

http://lumberjocks.com/Dcase/blog/27619


----------



## RWE

Thanks Terry. I was thinking of a smaller bit of wood than he used, but it makes sense to perhaps go bigger for more glue/epoxy surface. I think I will try the sawdust/epoxy technique first, knowing that I can replace it with a wood splice later if it doesn't work out.


----------



## terryR

epoxy is probably a good start.

another option is to add a thin sole to the entire plane and re-chisel the mouth opening. work.

depends how rare an 8" Union is, I guess.


----------



## donwilwol

Beech is typical for most tranny's including Union. I like the idea of trying the epoxy. If it isn't too your liking you can revert to the new wood insert.


----------



## ADN

Traded for a box of planes from an Estate sale last year, and health issues prevented me from exploring the contents until recently. Plus the trade was to help out a fellow wood worker, so I wasn't too worried about what I was getting in return….

Found something I've never seen, a Union 4 1/2, with a low/ wide front knob and a small left hand thread adjustment wheel….

Now I used to sell old planes and such in an antique mall so I've come across a few Union 4 1/2 variations over the years, but never one like this, and it appears to be all original…

Here's a few pics:


----------



## Johnny7

That Union 4½ is a beaut *ADN* !


----------



## donwilwol

Very nice early Union.


----------



## ADN

Thanks,

It's unusual for sure, the front knob is as wide as the plane!

It's very comfortable to use, and these old Unions also have nice thick irons, with the "hole" at the top of the blade rather than at the bottom…..


----------



## tshiker

That front knob is beautiful! I would love to try and make one. Can you give us a few more pic's? Some of the base would be helpful. Very nice plane!


----------



## ADN

Thanks, will post a couple in the morning….


----------



## BlasterStumps

My wife and I had the opportunity to take in a couple antique malls in the Denver area recently. In one of the malls, I found this block plane. It looks like it has light use although the box is a little worse for wear. I will try to remember to post a picture or two of the plane after I give it a clean and get it making shavings again. 
Mike


----------



## CO_Goose

Nice 65, really like the knuckle cap block planes.

When I go to the antique malls around Denver, all I find is overpriced, rusted junk. Congrats on your finds!


----------



## BlasterStumps

We didn't see all that many old woodworking tools in the two malls we went in. I wanted a couple things that I saw but didn't end up buying them. One was a stanley type 11 no 5 with a Bedrock lever cap in good condition but the plane body was cracked. Also saw another MF drill. I don't know the model but it was a breast drill. Needed a lot of work so I passed. The sticker price on this No 65 plane was $45 but I asked for and got 20% off that, so 37 plus tax I think. The No 5 drill was $27 + tax. So no real bargains but I felt they were good enough tools for the money. They will give me something to tinker with for a few days. : )


----------



## RWE

I had some luck a couple of days ago. When I get home I will post some pictures. Got a transitional Sargent Jack plane ($14) that looks to be in great shape. I picked up a #3 Lakeside ($10) and from my research it may be a Stanley or it may be a Sargent made plane for Montgomery Wards. That will be for Don to pipe in about. On the net, a fellow stated that Stanley made planes that had the twisted lateral adjuster arm that looks like a Sargent lateral adjuster arm. I saw the adjuster and assumed it was a Sargent build. To be determined. I also got a Sargent Jack ($11, a steal) that looks like it will clean up nicely. My big find was a nice Stanley 78 ($34) with all the parts.

I jumped in on this thread because the the 65 above. A vendor was selling some old fellow's lifetime collection of planes. There were probably 20 different block planes for sale, all different, and to me, none worth having except as a collector. All of the above named planes that I bought were from the fellows collection (except the 78). My daughter was waiting patiently for me to decide and I had to hurry out. Probably had two or three more nice planes in there if I had the time to dig around.

Once you get your hands and a 65 or similar block plane, those models that don't have adjustable mouths and dept adjusters just don't seem worth the bother. I have a couple of those basic blocks for my "collector" series, but did not feel the need to add any more. Nice looking 65.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I think I have seen late stanley planes with the twisted lateral lever ends. 
Mike


----------



## donwilwol

The Lakeside is most likely a Union, but pictures will confirm.


----------



## ADN

TSHIKER:

Here's a couple of pictures:

It's 2 3/16" wide and 2 1/8 tall, yep wider than high…..it also has a small ring at the bottom, didn't notice that before.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Wow, that Union plane is in great condition. That is quite the front knob on that thing. Congrats.
Mike


----------



## RWE

_I had some luck a couple of days ago. When I get home I will post some pictures. Got a transitional Sargent Jack plane ($14) that looks to be in great shape. I picked up a #3 Lakeside ($10) and from my research it may be a Stanley or it may be a Sargent made plane for Montgomery Wards. That will be for Don to pipe in about. On the net, a fellow stated that Stanley made planes that had the twisted lateral adjuster arm that looks like a Sargent lateral adjuster arm. I saw the adjuster and assumed it was a Sargent build. To be determined. I also got a Sargent Jack ($11, a steal) that looks like it will clean up nicely. My big find was a nice Stanley 78 ($34) with all the parts.

I finally got home from a visit with my daughter. I have been working on the Sargent Jack mentioned earlier. It looks to be a Type 3 414 VBM

https://www.sargent-planes.com/sargent-plane-type-study/
Cast iron body, East India Mahogany handle & knob (1910 to 1924)

The handle and knob were stained black and were very splotchy so I have sanded them down and will go a more natural finish.

After some cleaning:

I was missing the brass cap for the front knob, so pictured is a Stanley spare cap that i had.


















The frog seems to be from a later series to me, but the cap and iron all look period. Maybe it was common to mix up some of the parts.


----------



## RWE

Sargent Jack continued

The frog seems similar to a Sargent made Craftsman that I have always liked using.



















I figure a type 3 is nice, but not in the collectible category like a Type 1 or Type 2. I am planning on making it a user. Dates back to 1918 and is in great condition. Very excited to finally get a Sargent. I will post later on the Lakeside #3 and the Sargent Transitional Jack that I picked up on the same shopping spree. May be my best handplane shopping day ever.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Congrats on getting that Sargent plane RWE. Should make a good one. I just went out to the shop and rummaged thru a bunch of plane parts to see if I had a straight side brass nut but no luck. I'll keep an eye out for one though. All the best with the rehab on that Sargent.
Mike in CO


----------



## Handtooler

Very nice rehab on your prized Sergeant.


----------



## donwilwol

RWE, the Sargent is a VBM so that makes it a type 4 (1910-1918). What you have a a rather rare one with the cap japanned. I have a #407 and I've seen a #409. I've also seen a #414, but they're a bit uncommon. I've yet to find out the story behind them. It must have been a short run. I'd suggest leaving the cap as is.


----------



## RWE

Don:

Not a moment too soon. I was just going out to the shop to use paint remover to get rid of the old paint and redo it. *Do you think I should go back with black on the handle and front knob? If I clean off the old paint on the body and redo it along with the cap iron, would that be a mistake in your opinion? *

I guess I will put it aside and shift over to the Lakeside #3 which I now understand is probably a Union made model. It has been soaking in Evaporust for a while now waiting for some attention.

One day, I will get back to actually doing some wood working. LOL.

Also, I got Type 3 from the site that is linked in the original message. I know you are the expert, but he shows the date range and cap iron logo and called it a type 3. Also, you probably cannot make it out from the picture, but the number stamped on the bottom of the frog is 409. Not sure what to make of all of that, but if the plane is rare enough to be of interest to you, private message me or email me. I think you have my email address from an inquiry I made about moulding planes a month or so back.

Mike:

Thanks for looking for a brass cap that would be authentic to the plane.


----------



## JADobson

Does anyone have a link to a good plane restoration post? Got a good deal on a type 19 made in Canada Stanley #7C ($25) but it needs some cleaning up.


----------



## bandit571

Sargent used the 409 frog on both the #409 and the 414…same width iron, too…..2"


----------



## BlasterStumps

JADobson, I don't have info on the post that you are seeking but I'm sure some of the other forum participants can steer you to one or more. However, I wanted to offer some info to get you started on the plane. 
Look closely on the bottom of the plane at the mouth opening, checking to see if there are any radiating cracks coming from the corners of the mouth and possbibly going up the side. Also on the mouth, it is best not to have the rear of the opening damaged. If there are big chips missing, might not be too good. Then I noticed the length of the blade in that plane. It might be worth checking to see how much life is left in it before you go to a lot of trouble cleaning and sharpening it. It looks a bit short but it still might be okay. There appears to be quite a lot of japanning left on the plane so maybe just a good clean might be all you need to do. The tote and knob look good what I can see of them. The sole of the plane is where it is at. You don't want rust on the sole. A good clean and then some rubbing the plane on sandpaper will clean that most likely. Good luck with it.
Mike


----------



## JADobson

Thanks Mike. No cracks. Checked it over well before I bought it. Totes are in pretty good shape. Look like a tropical hardwood. You are right that there is hardly any life in the blade. I was planning on replacing the blade with a Pmv-11. That's what I have in my laj and I like it.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice plane at a good price. Congrats on the find.


----------



## bandit571

timetestedtools by DonW has a couple articles on restoration…...


----------



## donwilwol

> Also, I got Type 3 from the site that is linked in the original message. I know you are the expert, but he shows the date range and cap iron logo and called it a type 3. Also, you probably cannot make it out from the picture, but the number stamped on the bottom of the frog is 409.
> Mike
> 
> - RWE


As Bandit already started, the 409 and 414 used the same frog, so it was common to see them mixed and matched.

As to the type 3 thing; the type study is from Dave Heckels book. His technique is very confusing in my opinion. He did a separate study for the different components. So what you see is a type 3 lever cap, which is on a type 4 plane. He compunded the confusion by never dating the planes past type 3. He listed a type for all lever caps but not all planes. If you use my site or my book they are all there.


----------



## donwilwol

> Does anyone have a link to a good plane restoration post? Got a good deal on a type 19 made in Canada Stanley #7C ($25) but it needs some cleaning up.
> 
> - JADobson


http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/26/bench-plane-restoration-guide-part-1/


----------



## JADobson

Thanks Don - that was the one I was looking for. I used your no-soak method. Not done yet but its looking good already.


----------



## RWE

Well it has been another lucky day. Just found this about an hour or two ago.

I need help figuring out this Millers Falls 9c as far as the type. Maybe after a bath it will be more evident to me. $15 and in bad need of some attention. The adjuster wheel is brass. The cap iron has the flex foot and seemed to have been all chrome and no red in the logo. I have not pulled the knob screw or the handle screw to see if they are brass. Best I can tell it is maybe a type 3 or type 2 second production. The handles and three part lever cap, red frog etc. seem to eliminate type 4 and type 5. Any Millers Falls gurus out there?

Despite the horrible looking pictures and rust, the plane is in pretty good shape as far as the handles and knob. The chrome plate is going to be an issue. The iron looks ok. Time for Evaporust to go to work.

https://oldtoolheaven.com/bench/benchtypes.htm

Before pictures. There are no after pictures (yet).


----------



## BlasterStumps

One thing that may be a good clue is the type of wood used. I can't tell what it is by the pics. MF used rosewood, cocobolo and hardwood.


----------



## bandit571

Traded for this one last year…I think…










No. 9, type 4










I seem to remember that the WW2 era ones had no paint in the lever cap…


----------



## RWE

I am pretty sure now that the plane is a type 3. It had the blued screws for the handle and knob. It looks like heavily stained hardwood. No paint on the cap. WWII era. As a matter of fact, the heavy coating on the knob and handle withstood some sanding and scraping. It looked like someone with a handful of spackling or plaster had gripped it and left an encrusted glob of white goo all over one side. It has cleaned up nicely and I will check the bottom for flat and sharpen it and post some pictures. I guess the plating (nickel or chrome) is the biggest issue. The adjuster knob may be steel as well.

Do you consider your's a good user? That is a nice looking model. Classic Miller Falls look.


----------



## BenDupre

Hey, this is not the handplane of anyone's dreams… but I recently bought a new Stanley 62 low-angle jack. It seems to be a nice piece of hardware but it has a couple issues that need tuning. The sole is a little hollow (I didn't measure it with a feeler) and the sides don't appear to be square to the base so not ready for shooting. The blade is sharp and it cuts beautifully. I have tuned up some old Stanleys and I understand how to lap the sole, sharpen the blade, etc. What I am unsure of is how to get the sides square to the base. Can anyone point me to a good resource?

THANKS!


----------



## terryR

I think a low-angle jack is a fine plane to have in the arsenal.

Although, I'm not sure I would want to modify a new Stanley? I might send it back and hope for a better replacement.

Without a mill, I would attempt to square the base by applying sharpie to the metal you want to remove, and sand that off on a flat surface. Constantly checking for square and flat. It may only take one box of 60 grit sandpaper to acheive your goal.










Also, I've seen guys build a shooting board that is slightly out-of-square to accommodate the plane as is. Probably an easier solution?


----------



## terryR

After a handful of attempts, I've had little luck sanding mild steel (1018) into a perfectly square body.










A cast plane should be less work, but get ready for a major undertaking.


----------



## Handtooler

Call the retailer and discuss your problem, chances are they will ship a replacement and send a return mailing label or tell you to keep it and the replacement is on its way. Many fine companies don't want faults to enter the community of users.


----------



## BenDupre

TR - Thanks for the encouragement! I was hoping there was some sort of approach/technique or jig that would help me ensure accuracy. It does seem like building a skewed shooting board will be easier.

Ben


----------



## HokieKen

Hey fellas. I've rounded out my plane till with a recently acquired Millers Falls #18. But it's missing the forward screw for the tote. Anybody have one they'd part with? Happy to swap if I have something you need or pay for it. Just can't bring myself to pay ebay prices for one… If I can't find one, I'll just open the threads up and use a 1/4-20. It's a user, not a collectible but I would prefer to keep it as-is if I can. Thanks fellas!

Oh, AFAIK, the threads were the same on MF and Stanleys so if you have a donor from a Stanley plane, that'll do


----------



## bandit571

Do you have a spare frog bolt? Try it….


----------



## HokieKen

> Do you have a spare frog bolt? Try it….
> 
> - bandit571


Thanks Bandit. Already thought of that. Believe it or not, I don't have a spare :-( I have spare screws for knobs and totes but that's all with the 12-20 thread.


----------



## JayT

Kenny,

I surely have a Stanley tote front screw kicking around in my spare parts bin. I'll try to remember to check at lunch.


----------



## waho6o9

I have a 20 TPI from a Millers Falls No. 9 is that's what you're looking for.


----------



## bandit571

May want to double check that thread for the toe….Millers Falls did not use the same size as Stanley did. They use an off the shelf size…...


----------



## waho6o9

Thanks Bandit


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks fellas! JayT, no rush but I'll take one if you've got one to spare. At Bandit's suggestion, let me double check the thread size when I get home tonight. I tried a 1/4-20 and it was close but wouldn't go. I'll pull a toe screw out of one of my Stanley's tonight and verify.


----------



## donwilwol

I'd ask for a new Stanley. I've even heard sometimes it takes 2 or 3 tries to get one reasonable, but they'll keep trying.


----------



## BenDupre

> I d ask for a new Stanley. I ve even heard sometimes it takes 2 or 3 tries to get one reasonable, but they ll keep trying.
> 
> - Don W


Got it off Amazon. I'm sure they would replace it but My hopes aren't high the replacement would be square. I'll try it though.


----------



## DLK

How out of square is it?

For a jig. make a square 2" by 2" (or L shaped) block of wood. Once sole is flat set the block on your lapping plate and use it as a guide against the sole while lapping the side.


----------



## JayT

Kenny, I looked and do not have a front screw for a tote. With all the other parts that I still have, that surprised me, but there just isn't one. Sorry, man. Hopefully someone else can help you out.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks JayT but I just found an old Defiance plane in my junk box with a busted sole so I robbed a frog screw and it works nicely  Thanks for looking out bud!


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'll probably stop bidding at about $480, how's about you? : )

https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/55096705


----------



## donwilwol

> I ll probably stop bidding at about $480, how s about you? : )
> 
> https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/55096705
> 
> - BlasterStumps


If you stop you may not get them !!


----------



## DLK

I bet that auction will go to at least $600, maybe $800.


----------



## TedT2

So did you get them? Those were pretty cool for a Goodwill auction….


----------



## TheFridge

Yep MF definitely a standard thread.

As far as the 62. Return til they get it right or splurge for better I'd say. Honestly though, when it comes to shooting I'd just compensate with the lateral. You'll have to tweak it anyway and the majority of the sole will not be in contact with the edge of the shooting board. I'd make sure both sides are at least flat for a good reference.

Terry, how far do you take filing to get it flat?


----------



## terryR

Fridge, I sand the base of my planes 100% flat, except for the tiny chamfer on the edges.

Are they 100% square to either side? sadly, no. I'm still a beginner. And working more Jasper lately to be honest.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Not me. I never bid on them. 
I guess they went fairly reasonable.
Mike


> So did you get them? Those were pretty cool for a Goodwill auction….
> 
> - TedT2


----------



## RWE

I picked up a "match" set of moulding planes, tongue and groove. The groove plane is marked W. Williams and he is listed in List of NY Planemakers with dates of 1843-47. The tongue plane has the same mark R. Y. B.. The groove plane has separate stamps for W. Wlliams and Warranted.

I saw another W. Wlliams plane on the net. Other than that the trail has run cold. *Anyone have a good site or book for researching these old planes.*

I searched here on Lumberjocks and came up with some blogs and topic entries. I like the history with planes almost as much as using them, so any leads for research would be appreciated. This might be in Don W.'s wheelhouse.

Also, I don't know if R.Y.B. is a maker's mark or a designation of some sort? Royal this or that? I don't see a connection with R.Y.B. and W. Williams.

The list of NY Planemakers site seems to be dead. (where I came up with W. Wlliams 1843-47) Emails came back as invalid. It dates to 2002.
http://www.woodenplane.org/NYC-Planemakers.htm


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## donwilwol

And if you're going to do anything with wooden planes you need this book


----------



## RWE

Thanks Don. I just popped for a used copy on Amazon. I assume there is some content about the makers, or at least about the era. Looking forward to getting the info.


----------



## bandit571

Ok..$30 + sales tax brought this thing home with me, today…









Hiding under the "patina"?









It is a "c" model…..









Has a Bailey No. 3 in front of the knob. Has an SW on the iron. Has a tall knob….has STANLEY going up the lateral lever. Rosewood fore and aft. 









Has three patent dates, and a frog adjust bolt. Knurlings on the brass wheel are straight…all three rows. 
No so much as a crack anywhere. Lever cap is the "keyhole" type….has the Stanley in a clipped corner box, no paint found. Japanning and the frog are black. heel of the sole has a "step".

Stanley No. 3c….type 11? Might be worth that high price?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Looks like a good one Bandit, congrats! I hope it cleans up real well for you. Some of my best old Stanleys are from that time frame. The corrugated sole is something I don't think I have in a No 3 size. Anyway, good find.
Mike


----------



## BlasterStumps

RWE, did you try out your matched set of T&G planes yet? I was wondering how well you like using them. Nice find by the way. 
Mike


----------



## DLK

> And if you re going to do anything with wooden planes you need this book
> 
> - Don W


By your command I too have placed an order for one.


----------



## donwilwol

> And if you re going to do anything with wooden planes you need this book
> 
> - Don W
> 
> By your command I too have placed an order for one.
> 
> - Combo Prof


It's a great reference. I can't even imagine the amount of work that went into that book. It literally baffles my mind.


----------



## RWE

RWE, did you try out your matched set of T&G planes yet? I was wondering how well you like using them. Nice find by the way. 
Mike

What is the saying? "God looks after idiots and small children." or something like that. I bought the groove plane at a Antique Flea mall where the vendor had an assortment of very bad moulding planes and a bunch of very bad (missing parts) late 50's 60's metal planes. That was about two weeks ago. I did not know what it was. You don't see a lot of moulding planes down here in Alabama and I had never seen one with a metal skate before. I own a couple of 45's so I know what a skate is.

So I get home and clean off the green mold off of the moulding plane. It literally has a green fungus/mold spotted all over the wooden areas. Eventually I came to realize it must be part of a "match" set and then I am kicking myself for not hunting for the mate. I learn that it is from the 1840's most likely. I am feeling real bad. Half complete, missed out on a nice set. So I walk in yesterday to the Antique Mall and lo and behold there is the tongue plane, green mold and all. I don't know how I missed it to begin with.

So I just got that fellow cleaned up a bit and am in the process of sharpening the iron. I did cut several grooves with the first plane. Eyeballing the lines today, it looks like they are going to line up just right. I will post again after trying the two together. Based on the quality of the planes, I have high hopes that they will work well together.

If they don't work well, this idiot (who God looked after) will enjoy just looking at them. Cowboys were still roaming the west, pre-Civil War, times were simple and those planes from that period are just very cool. Nice thing is that I got them for $15 a piece.


----------



## theoldfart

RWE, good grab at that price. Who's the maker?


----------



## RWE

See Don W.'s post a few above, *W. Williams*. He is listed in the books that Don kindly provided the references for.

I just got the tongue cutter sharpened and gave them a test drive. Well, times were easier back in 1847 and I think wood was thicker. I grabbed a 3/4 thick cedar board and proceeded to make shiplap. The planes look like they will need 7/8 or 1 inch minimum and 1 and 1/8 or 1 and 1/4 for near center. So the range should be 7/8 to 1 1/2 or so in thickness.

Having said that, I had a perfect front to to front match on the reference faces. After laying around growing green mold for several years, they are reincarnated and make perfect matched faces.


----------



## RWE

A *Before* shot:

The green mold color doesn't show well in the pictures, but it was there.



















I believe that Bill Anderson pointed out the curvature of the wedge is more rounded and less oblong on the older planes. So if you see some moulding planes, look at that. I have three now that are older and one that has the more oblong style of wedge tip.

*After*: (I was mindful too not get too carried away and to ruin the patina and character)


----------



## DLK

While reading and responding to email I was heating up OBG (liquid hide glue) to repair a molding plane. Forgot about and he water bath boiled. So to hot. Whats the best way to heat it to 140 - 160 degrees as recommended.
Whats a good thermometer or way to know its at the right temperature? I can tell you that using it when its too hot makes a mess.


----------



## jmartel

> While reading and responding to email I was heating up OBG (liquid hide glue) to repair a molding plane. Forgot about and he water bath boiled. So to hot. Whats the best way to heat it to 140 - 160 degrees as recommended.
> Whats a good thermometer or way to know its at the right temperature? I can tell you that using it when its too hot makes a mess.
> 
> - Combo Prof


If you're just taking water temperature, use a food digital thermometer.

https://www.amazon.com/Lavatools-PT12-Javelin-Thermometer-Chipotle/dp/B00GRFHXVQ

That's what I use for cooking and it works well.


----------



## DLK

I be stupid. Reading I see that just hot tap water is enough to warm OBG.


----------



## BillWhite

Bandit, just finished a resto on a #4C of the same vintage. Mine has the triangle logo on the iron. Good catch on your part. Enjoy.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> Whats the best way to heat it to 140 - 160 degrees as recommended.
> - Combo Prof


Easiest?
You can buy coffee/tea warming devices (like this tea pot sized one from Amazon).
Many of higher end induction hot plates also have temperature controller where you can set a low temp range and it attempts to keep pan at that temp.

I don't use hide glue, but see no reason these would not work to control temperature?
We use an inductive hot plate for melting chocolate to make holiday treats, and for poor mans sous vide cooking. 

Another options is to pick up a hot plate from Goodwill or garage sale for 50 cents, and then buy a temperature controller and relay to build your own temperature controlled hot plate. They are all kinds of DIY articles on how to make one.

Can also buy a stand alone 120V temp controller as well, it you already have a hot plate laying around.

Hope this helps.


----------



## BenDupre

> While reading and responding to email I was heating up OBG (liquid hide glue) to repair a molding plane. Forgot about and he water bath boiled. So to hot. Whats the best way to heat it to 140 - 160 degrees as recommended.
> Whats a good thermometer or way to know its at the right temperature? I can tell you that using it when its too hot makes a mess.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Go to the Goodwill and find one of those small slow cookers or potpurri pots for like 3$ it might take a little while to heat up, but it shouldn't boil.


----------



## bandit571

OK, finally got this #3c to actually do the job it was supposed to..









Mouth opening was a bit too tight…apparently an SW iron was thicker than the older ones?









And…without the shaving distractions…









May just keep this one around a while….









Maybe?

BTW: Who was looking for a Millers Falls front knob for a block plane" 









Not sure IF I still have the bolt…









Just about the same as the one on my low angle block plane…


----------



## kyscroller

Love this old plane. Best I can find is that it's from England with a I&H Sorby blade. Curved bottom and is in as found condition.


----------



## FrankonThetis

Picked this up at a local Antique Store as initially thought it was a Stanley No. 3. No identification other than made in U.S.A. in the body. Compared to my Stanley No 4 it is 2 3/16" wide [#4 2 3/8"] & 9 1/4" from toe to heel [#4 9 3/8"]. It has thicker sidewalls @ 12/64 vs 10/64. High front knob. The frog base is stamped C27, Keyhole cap iron stamped 115 & 9, frog top 1 & frog bottom C55. The iron is stamped either <dhp> or <d4p>. It was sold "as is" so could be a frankenplane.
Any suggestions as to who made it and is it a No 3 size?
Thanks, Frank


----------



## donwilwol

looks awful Handymanish with a replaced lateral of sorts


----------



## HonestlyMediocre

Not a No. 3 or equivalent, it's a No. 4. I don't know enough to decipher the make,


----------



## bandit571

Maybe a version of a Lakeside plane? Or..an EARLY Diamond Edge plane?


----------



## Johnny7

It appears to be a D.H. Prutton No. 4 (Cleveland, OH)


----------



## RWE

Here is a link on D.H. Prutton. Seems another fellow had the same experience:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?248470-Prutton-Tool-Company


----------



## bandit571

Random plane photo from today's follies..









Stanley No. 3c


----------



## FrankonThetis

Johnny7 & RWE, thanks for the info on the D.H. Prutton Tool Co. Had never heard of that one before. The link to the Sawmill Creek thread was very informative. Guess will need to keep looking for the elusive No 3 up here. 
Thanks again for the information.
Frank


----------



## putty

Someone had an ingenious idea for flattening plane soles, I don't think it will work too well. I think he used an old boat windshield wiper motor

Here


----------



## RWE

That is hilarious. Looks like a very late issue Record by the color.


----------



## theoldfart

great back scratcher perhaps


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane photo for the day…









Millers Falls Type 2, No. 11


----------



## HonestlyMediocre

I think it would work reasonably well with some modifications:

1. It needs some weight on the tote.
2. The sand paper needs to be as long as the sole + stroke so the sole is evenly flattened through the push and pull cycle. In their setup with an 11" paper, they have a No. 5 plane (14" sole) and ~8" stroke. So the center 6" of the sole is always in contact with the sandpaper but the 3" at the toe and heel are each only in contact at the apex of the cycle. The bottom of that sole is probably concave now.g


----------



## CFrye

> Someone had an ingenious idea for flattening plane soles, I don t think it will work too well. I think he used an old boat windshield wiper motor
> 
> Here
> 
> - putty


My BIL devised a similar device (kinda upside down to this one) that moved the sharpening stone while he held the blade stationary.


----------



## TheFridge

I hope to do something similar one day. Even bought an old variable speed trimmer. The damn blades were hardened so I couldn't drill it and it gots thrown away. One day.


----------



## bandit571

Stanley #3c..vs..a bit of Maple..


----------



## DanKrager

...moved. Thanks Don.


----------



## donwilwol

Spoke shave of your dreams

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/64776


----------



## RWE

Need some help on transitionals. I picked up a Stanley 35 a week or so back. It looked to be in very good shape. In working it over and sharpening etc. I discovered the blade/iron was broken (a shame, the only iron that I have seen with just STANLEY as the logo). Fortunately I had a parts plane #4 that had a usable iron that worked.

What has me puzzled is that the plane is very bad about getting the shavings crammed in the mouth and it seems to be due to the length of the lever cap. I put a 1 to 8 inch camber on the iron and that may be too much camber and could be part of the problem, but in the photos below, the lever cap is resting within 1/4 of an inch of the mouth opening when lying on the bed without the iron being inserted.

I did paint the bottom of the lever cap top and I will clean that off and go back to metal, plus do the same on the bottom of the lever cap where it registers against the iron. So that will take off two paint thickness.

I researched this with Google and saw one thread where a fellow opined that the Transitional smoothers and such were too fussy to be of much use, but that he liked the longer jack sized Transitionals. I have had the same experience so far.

So, to sum up. Maybe the plane body is too thin now. It looks about right based on all pictures that I can find. It measures 1 and 27/64 thick. The mouth is a consistent 3/16 inch wide.

About all I can adjust is the camber and I will do that, flatten it out and take out most of the arc. Still it seems strange to me that his plane has such a deep seating lever cap which seems to be the main culprit in clogging the mouth.

*Does anyone have experience with a 35 that is tuned well? Can you measure the depth/thickness of the plane body? Does anyone have a site that contains the dimensions (more than just the length) for those planes?* If you have a well tuned 35, what camber if any did you put on the iron.

Any thoughts about your experiences with Transitionals would be appreciated.


----------



## bandit571

I have an Ohio Tool Co. made 0-35…..which is a clone of the Stanley #35…..give me till Friday to get the info..if you want.













































Had a second one, until it was sold…


----------



## RWE

That iron looks much thicker. I am using a type 16 #4 iron, but it seems to be the same thickness of the original iron that was broken. I will be interested in the info when you get time. thanks,


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'm looking at that lever cap RWE and wondering if it could be off of a Stanley Four square or Defiant. I know the transitionals have the stippled lever cap but I thought they were different looking. Just guessing here. I don't have any transitional planes. 
Mike


----------



## RWE

A transitional Frankenplane came to my mind as well. In looking at pictures it seems to be original. Where I bought it, a flea market that had acquired a collection of planes from a "collector" who passed away to that great workshop in the sky, made me figure it was original.

I work in software. We have something we call confessional programming/debugging. If you sit down and talk the issue through, the process of describing it often brings to mind the solution. I went back to the shop, flattened the camber on the iron so I had just rounded corners. I removed the paint on the lever cap, top and bottom. After those changes, it is behaving much better. I think what I am experiencing is probably somewhat the norm for those planes. I just never had one to know. The plane body is so thick, the shavings naturally build up in the big cavity. I think you just have to embrace dumping shavings ever so often if you use one.

Having the lever cap come to 1/4 inch of the mouth just seems a bit much, but again, the body may be a few 16ths thinner than a new one and I probably screwed up the camber to begin with.

As a side note, I think this model is a pre-20's model. I read somewhere, maybe on Don's site, that the models that use wood screws to hold the frog in are the earlier models. I have a couple of Sargents that have threaded holes in the metal for the frogs. I like old, but I think I like the metal in metal better.

Blaster: Do get your measurements when you get time. I am peeved that there doesn't seem to be source for the original dimensions of these planes. I figure this one was a full 1.5 inches thick to start with. At 1 and 27/64ths that makes this one 5/64ths thinner. I did use three very very light jointer passes on the bottom to level it. I would also like to know what the width of the mouth was on an original out of the box model.


----------



## donwilwol

Welcome to the world of transitional frustration. They do have a learning curve. All Stanley transitionals used wood screws to hold the frame to the body. They are often stripped.

You'll get in a habit of pulling shavings with your fingers on each stroke. You can make sure the front of the mouth is smooth, and waxed. This is often overlooked and can be rough enough to slow chip extraction.


----------



## bandit571

Mouth opening on the 0-35 = 3/8", due to the tapered iron Ohio used….Stanley also used on the earlier ones.

Lever cap IS correct….NOT a 4square…..4squares had a raised "Stanley" logo in a box. Later, they used a group of four red squares.

Thickness at the mouth area = 1-5/16" tall


----------



## RWE

Thanks for the feedback. The only time I ever saw the word Razee was in connection to a style of sailing ship back in the 1700's. So it is cool to have a plane with the handle sitting in a Razee. (Blood and Gore description of the 35)

I am coming to terms with the fact that I am becoming a collector. Don, you need a "I am not a collector" shirt for plane users.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'll have pics up later tonight, but yesterday I picked up an otherwise unmarked block plane (no logo on the cutter either, absolutely blank) that is corrugated… Kinda like a No. 9 1/2 in size (I'll post specifics), no adjustable mouth, and I believe the cap screw is a replacement. Not sure the cap is original either, for that matter. Just hadn't seen a C model block before and for $4 it had to be rescued.


----------



## donwilwol

> Thanks for the feedback. The only time I ever saw the word Razee was in connection to a style of sailing ship back in the 1700 s. So it is cool to have a plane with the handle sitting in a Razee. (Blood and Gore description of the 35)
> 
> I am coming to terms with the fact that I am becoming a collector. Don, you need a "I am not a collector" shirt for plane users.
> 
> - RWE


Good idea!!

https://represent.com/light-i-am-not-a-collector-for-hand-plane-users
https://represent.com/darker-i-am-not-a-collector-for-hand-plane-users


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## ToddJB

Hey Don, did you mean to have a " instead of a ' in "I"m not a collector"?


----------



## RWE

Ok Don. Now I can tell the world that "I am not a collector". Just picked up a handplane shirt on your site. I had only seen the mitre box shirt.

I would collect mitre boxes but the planes and saws took all of my space.


----------



## theoldfart

One sold already! Do I get royalties?


----------



## donwilwol

> One sold already! Do I get royalties?
> 
> - theoldfart


Checks in the mail ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

oh good and I will respect you in the morning!


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## donwilwol

When I get back to the computer I'm going to make one that says

"I would collect Mitre boxes but the Hand Planes and Hand Saws took all of my space."

You guys are a great source of inspiration!!


----------



## CFrye

"I would collect Mitre boxes but the Hand Planes, Bits, Braces and Hand Saws took all of my space."


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## RWE

CFrye:

Not specific enough

"I would collect Mitre boxes but the Hand Planes, Bits, Braces and Hand Saws took all of my space."

Should be

"I would collect Mitre boxes but the Hand Planes, Jennings Bits, Braces, Hand Drills, Try Squares, Draw Knives and Hand Saws took all of my space."

Everyone would just need to order a XXL shirt that would have room for the message.


----------



## Mosquito

What about: "I would collect Miter Boxes, but I've already got them all"?


----------



## Just_Iain

> While reading and responding to email I was heating up OBG (liquid hide glue) to repair a molding plane. Forgot about and he water bath boiled. So to hot. Whats the best way to heat it to 140 - 160 degrees as recommended.
> Whats a good thermometer or way to know its at the right temperature? I can tell you that using it when its too hot makes a mess.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> Go to the Goodwill and find one of those small slow cookers or potpurri pots for like 3$ it might take a little while to heat up, but it shouldn t boil.
> 
> - BenDupre


I'm going to second Ben's suggestion and recommend reading: "Other Ways of Doing - Glue Pots, Coffee Warmers, and Potpourri Crocks" over at the "The Barn on White Run" Blog donsbarn.com


----------



## CaptainKlutz

T-Shirts?

Thinking of a new signature line:
Love my antique hand planes best as they don't ask for divorce when I fool around with sexy new things in shop.

Cheers!


----------



## CFrye

Touche, RWE!
Mos, have you been holding out?


----------



## DonBroussard

I picked up a Stanley 113 a few years ago, and based on my reading in B&G, I think I have a Type 1.





































I am pretty sure it has the original iron. I've never used it so if someone is interested, I could let it go.


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos, have you been holding out?
> 
> - CFrye


lol No, I had OF in mind


----------



## JayT

#lovethatfirstcoatoffinish


----------



## theoldfart

"lol No, I had OF in mind "

I appreciate the sentiment Moss.


----------



## theoldfart

Jay, are there hydraulic controls for opening and closing the mouth. 

It does look good.


----------



## BenDupre

Okay, opinions please. I already have two Stanley #4's. The newer one being a type 16 corrugated sole. They are tuned up according to the tips I have learned on the internet. For my limited experience they appear to cut well. Here is my question: Will a new Stanley, which appears to have a very different design, including an adjustable mouth, perform better or worse or in a unique way compared to my old ones? I have a brand new #62 and it is of good quality (excepting the sides are not square to the base). The new #4 appears to be of a similar design (bevel-down) smoother. The new Stanley is-at this moment-priced down to $92 (all time low). From a performance/functionality standpoint is there any good reason to grab one?

THanks


----------



## JayT

Nope. If your vintage planes are well tuned, there is not going to be a perfomance advantage to getting a new Stanley, IMHO. Might be a diffetent answer if you were looking at a LN, Veritas or better. You'd also be spending a lot more.


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## donwilwol

I agree with JayT. An LN or similar may have tightener tolerances, so less "slop", but from a woods point of view, it's all the same.


----------



## RWE

I suspect that the new Stanley will have "sole" issues as well. In the 90's I bought a contractor grade type 16 #4 with plastic handles. After I got into the whole handplane, hand tools thing, I decided to see how the sole was on that baby and spent about 6 to 8 hours getting it to flatten.

Maybe the new Sweetheart series are better and they are certainly at a higher price point and should be. Don W. is a big Sargent fan. I have recently picked up a couple of vintage Sargents that have incredibly flat soles and irons. Once you learn to sharpen, most of the refurb time is flattening. I have read reviews where the LN planes are good, but still have to be flattened.

There is always the possibility that you could buy a vintage plane that the previous owner had tuned. I would save the money on the new Stanley and buy a couple of vintage #4's and tune them differently. That is the best scenario, grab the best plane for the job you are doing, flat edge rounded corners for smoothing, camber for more aggressive cutting or scrubbing. I think 3 #4's tuned a bit differently would not be excessive.

I am in the process of setting up my collection accordingly. I already had a type 16 with an enlarged mouth that I use for scrubbing.


----------



## houblon

Mockridge & Francis of Newark, NJ. 1835-1868. This is a plane that does not show up frequently. All it needed was a cleanup, de-rusting, an iron and new wedge. Works perfectly.
Could that be cherry or is it beech?


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## terryR

Wow, what a lovely plane. Even with the wide open grain structure, I would bet on Beech for the body. Based mostly on the time period it was built, and the lovely patina.

It's possible the wedge is newer?


----------



## HokieKen

> #lovethatfirstcoatoffinish
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - JayT


#dangthosepeekaboosaresexy


----------



## RWE

New orphan that followed me home. I have not had time to research it that much, but it is an Owasco Tool Company jack or fore plane, 16 inches long.
https://www.davistownmuseum.org/bioAuburn.html

Owasco was connected to Auburn tools as the link above describes.

This may have been one of those convict labor planes that was discussed earlier in the this thread.

I was actually on the lookout for an old beech plane that was too far gone that I could use to repair a Sargent transitional smoother when I ran across this fellow. The area around the wedge is intact (most of the ones that I see are cracked and useless). There are some checks in the body but for the most part it looks like it can be made into a good plane. The iron is cleaning up nicely.










I am an old country boy but I sure as heck do not know what a thistle is. I assume it is a weed or a foraging crop for livestock. Check out the logo on this iron. It seems that was a common icon for the Auburn tool company and its related companies.

Variations of AUBURN TOOL CO./AUBURN N.Y., including one with two straight lines or the top line curved with a thistle or star under it, THISTLE









After some cleaning and BLO. Iron is working in some Evaporust and looked almost clean this morning.









I assume this plane used American steel since the iron has no secondary mark that would indicate an import and since it has a fairly elaborate stamp and icon which I have read needs to be done while hot to work properly. I would guess late 1800's probably 80's or 90's. Anyone with knowlege about Auburn Tools/Owasco Tools please chime in.

I don't think it is "valuable", probably a fair deal at the $20 I paid for it, but it has the virtue of being made workable. I don't plan on going full tilt Roy Underhill or anything, but the transitionals got me interested in the wood planes, so I am just having some fun with them.

I have an old unbranded Jointer wooden plane (Sheffield iron) that has the cracks around the wedge slot. Any ideas about the best way to repair would be welcome. I have had it for about 10 years now and finally tried to use it after fooling with the transitionals that I recently acquired. I guess a combo of epoxy and screws are about the only solution that I can come up with. Currently when you seat the iron, the splits widen and it is not stable.


----------



## donwilwol

I would glue and clamp them and make sure the wedge fits correctly after that


----------



## houblon

> It's possible the wedge is newer?
> 
> - terryR


Yes, I had to make a new one. I used cherry since I did not find a suitable piece of beech. Might make another to keep it more period.


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## DanKrager

Worst case scenario, RWE, is that you have to do major surgery by chiseling out the wedge stops entirely and prepare a new bed that spans the entire throat opening on each side. The deeper you go, the durability will be better. Then glue in new wedge stops carefully fitted to be snug against the toe end of the opening. This gives support to the glue during the wedging process. Maybe it would be good to taper them on the underside to blend with the sidewalls of the throat to help shavings exit smoothly.

BTW, screws do little to reinforce broken pieces. The forces are not in their favor and too much wood is often lost to them.

DanK


----------



## RWE

Thanks for the feedback. I have learned that Auburn was the location for a penitentiary. Still studying the history of the wooden Jack. I will try to repair the big jointer. Those heavy irons are great during the cut.


----------



## bandit571

Had one where I had to glue the "eyes" back into place..










As it came home ( $15 Garage sale item)










Wedge was not tightened, just to hold things in alignment….just plain old Elmer's for the glue….let it set a day or so..


----------



## terryR

RWE, please use glue and clamp above as Bandit did to repair the abutments. please don't use screws.

If the glue fails, simply save the plane since the vintage Beech would be fantastic for making new parts for other vintage planes. (like houblon's new wedge) I'll trade you money for it, if you don't want to keep it on a shelf.

edit; after the glue dries make sure the wedge still fits properly. Rub a little pencil on the iron, then gently tap the wedge into place. Then, wiggle the wedge back out and see how much graphite was transferred to the wooden wedge. You'd like contact everwhere, of course. If you only get graphite coloring in one spot, lightly sand off those graphite marks, re-apply more graphite, and test fit again. Repeat.

You may also need to test the fit between the newly placed abutments and the wedge using pencil in the same manner. Go very slow when removing wood from the abutments; use a tiny file. Re-check the fit with small taps on the wedge, you shouldn't have to drive the wedge into place to secure the iron.

Also, I would check the fit between the iron and the bed of the plane; it's possible a poor fit here is what caused someone to over strike the wedge in the first place. Again, rub some pencil graphite on the back of the iron, test fit, removed and see how large the contact area is. Ideally, you'd want contact everywhere, but in reality the center needs to be slight concave. More contact between the iron and bed around the edges is how real life works. Again, use a small file to remove wood in small increments. Re-test frequently.

And, no, this isn't too much tedious effort. 

Correcting small imperfections in these area (and flattening the plane's sole) could make it sing like a new plane. No really.

It might also give you courage to simply build a new plane.  I mean, I never did until I just did it.


----------



## RWE

Terry: I have been eyeing the plane for the last decade for use in saw handles and now I need a piece for the bottom of a wooden smoother. However I can't bring myself to destroy it. I will give the glue a shot. I was able to give the plane a trial after working on it a bit, sharpening the iron and such and I was impressed with the heft and the feel of that thick iron and the big body plane. Even at that, it is still lighter and glides across the wood compared to the #8 that I normally use. When I picked it up, someone had put screws in it and I removed them. After that, I have kept it for eye candy in the shop. So I am going to give it a try and see if I can get the glue to hold.

This whole woodworking thing is a progression. I saw the plane a decade ago and it spoke to me so I bought it. I have been watching Underhill for years and years (met him at his classroom/shop in Pittsboro a couple of years ago) and I knew the plane would work. I was all power tools and jigs back then. But over the last 4 or 5 years I have gotten more into hand tools and finally have enough sense and experience to try to utilize the big jointer.

It is a double iron, with a Sheffield stamp, so that helps date it (the Beech is pretty and it could be European, English, but I figure it is probably a late 1800's American made plane with an imported iron and possibly imported beech). There is no mark imprinted in the body. I will work it over and try the glue and clamps. At one point I was thinking of a dowel glued in across the split but no one seems to mention that as a possibility.

As dumb or lacking in experience as I was 10 years ago, the screws in the plane made me mad, so I did remove them. My instincts were good on that at least.

I will post some pictures when I get it glued and tested.


----------



## terryR

Sounds awesome. If the plane spoke to you for so long, I can understand why you would hate to cut it up.

Dowels wouldn't add any strength. Just good glue is stronger than the wood fibers.

I missed the Sheffield stamp; very cool.


----------



## donwilwol

Another process I have used if you just can't make the glue hold is rip the sides off make new sides, and make a laminated plane out of it. It's a last resort though. I've done it where the sides where completely split and missing parts makeing nothing to glue back.


----------



## RWE

Ridden by guilt, I slipped out to the shop to glue the jointer.

I had not researched the plane since I originally picked it up a long time ago. It seems the iron was made by Stormont - Fine Edge Tools, see link:

https://baroldstools.blogspot.com/2013/07/stormont-fine-edge-tools-1926-catalogue.html

On page 10 of the catalog the iron is listed as a double iron, brass nutted plane iron.

I will joint the bottom, do a light cleaning and put some BLO/Alchohol on it, then test it out again.










Plane is checked into rehab:










Note the beautiful grain:










I guess the biggest question I have now is whether the plane is American or English.

There seems to be a lot of info on Stormont products and the link above states the company was founded in 1899 which probably means the plane is an early 1900's model. Other than the splits at the mouth that I am repairing, it is solid and has no checking. So being an early 1900's plane might make sense as far as the condition of the wood.


----------



## bobasaurus

I attended a mini Kezurou-kai event in Denver last week (Japanese hand planing competition). Managed to come in 2nd place with a kanna I bought in Kyoto a few years ago. Only a few people were competing, so it wasn't a huge accomplishment but I had fun. Won a $100 voucher for the local sawmill.

The guy who won used a Lie-Nielsen, I should have thought of that  .

My kanna had warped and shrunk horribly in the dry climate here, I spent ages tuning it up. The dai was cracked slightly from the blade being in there while it shrunk, had to get some thin CA glue in there to stabilize it. Then I pared the cheeks down a bit for more lateral adjustment room, flattened the sole with another plane and sandpaper on granite, scraped the sole, and started work on the blade. The person who sharpened the blade had used dished stones, so I had to re-lap a lot of the back. Ended up using a microbevel on the blade to save time (not traditional, but oh well).


----------



## HokieKen

Awesome Allen! Way to go man. What were the competition criteria? Flattest board, thinnest shaving?


----------



## donwilwol

That's awesome Alan.


----------



## bobasaurus

Thanks. They tried to measure thickness, but the micrometer they ordered hadn't arrived yet so they only had one that measured to the thousandth of an inch. So most of the judging was subjective / by eye. They were looking for full-length shavings without flaws with the smallest thickness.

I found the steel in this blade to be super chippy. I typically go from diamond stones to shapton stones up to 15k grit when sharpening, but I was just getting a ragged burr that would break off and leave a sawtooth no matter what I tried. So I ended up sharpening this on a progression of diamond lapping films down to 0.1 micron, which worked pretty well.


----------



## bandit571

This thing followed me home today…..









Can I keep it?










About half of the other "Goodies" ( rest are in that pink tub)

Gave a "class" on using the Stanley #45, today..









Along with a dado, and a double bead edge…


----------



## RWE

Throw out that low angle plane. It is modern. Bah humbug. What is fun of working with "modern"?

Actually I hear that they are supposed to be useful on wild grain. I have old scraper planes for that. Paul Sellers says that the usefulness of low angle planes is one of those myths that is not borne out in the real world. I would be interested in your take after you have used it for a while. I have a friend of a friend that builds high-end highly figured cabinets and swears by low angle planes.

I am coveting the big old wooden jointer or jack plane. Post some info on that. I have the book that Don W. recommended to use to help figure out the maker and history of those wooden planes, on order, should be in early in the week.


----------



## donwilwol

There goes Bandit's reputation!!


----------



## bandit571

That "Jack Plane" will need an iron….a single, tapered iron….there is no slot for the chipbreaker bolt to rest in.

Will be giving the WoodRiver 62 a try out…and learn how to use it…..it came with one iron. Not sure IF I will get the others….


----------



## RWE

Are you going to have to find a single tapered iron or can you get one through Hock or some of the other vendors? That would make the plane a much earlier model than the double iron versions. If you find a maker's mark, share it. I will test out the book for you.

A Guide to the Makers of American Wooden Planes

In all seriousness, I would love to hear your thoughts on the low angle plane on some busy grain, say versus a scraper plane. I have a bunch of crotch burl Walnut and I have pretty much planned on using the scraper planes, Stanley #12 and an odd old Starrett scraper that I picked up not knowing what it was for a couple of years.

Starrett 194

My 194 did not have the wooden grip to go on the scraper iron, but I plan to turn one some day. It works surprisingly well since you can easily alter the angle as you pull it along to adjust your bite.


----------



## bandit571

The board I was using it on, today….tended to have a bit of tear-out with the 62…..vs zero for the Stanley #3c….May need a bit of fine tuning….


----------



## donwilwol

To us the #62 on difficult grain you'll need a blade with a 50 degree grind. A standard 25 or 35 degree grind will give you tear out.

I personally don't buy the whole hoopla over a low angle, but I'm sure it can work. I have a LN #62 and do use it from time to time on end grain. I never got a different iron for it.


----------



## Mosquito

> There goes Bandit's reputation!!
> 
> - Don W


LOL!

I've never gotten a second iron for my #62 either. I've been thinking about it for the #164 to have a toothing iron for when I hammer veneer though. But then I start thinking about the block plane Veritas makes that can have a toothed iron, knob, and tote added to it, and get tempted by that instead…

I've had good luck with my #164 on figured wood, but haven't got my #62 set up for it. I'm honestly sort of thinking about selling the #62. And Stanleys…


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah I'd rather a finely tuned and set chipbreaker.


----------



## HokieKen

> ... I m honestly sort of thinking about selling the #62. And Stanleys…
> 
> - Mosquito


Yell at me if you do Mos'! I'd like to have a 62 to give it a try.


----------



## Mosquito

Long road ahead before I get to that point, but sure thing Kenny 

My current thinking is to get all my Keen Kutter KK planes cleaned and tuned up, and start using those instead. Currently I've got my Type 11 corrugated Stanleys, Keen Kutter KK series, and Siegley post-stanley pre-design change sets, but was thinking about ditching the Stanleys and making the Keen Kutters for goin' and the Siegley's for showin'.

I've also thought about selling the Stanley set and rolling that in to a couple LN's. Constant debate in my head lol

Who knows, maybe I'll end up just adding LNs and keeping all 3 sets in tact… that doesn't sound like me at all :-D

Sorry for the long ramble, just thinking out loud


----------



## donwilwol

> ... I m honestly sort of thinking about selling the #62. And Stanleys…
> 
> - Mosquito
> 
> Yell at me if you do Mos'! I'd like to have a 62 to give it a try.
> 
> - HokieKen


I'm with you guys. I'd love to trade it in for a #164.


----------



## bandit571

Well, it arrived down in the shop…









And met up with the "work horse" of the shop..









Almost the same size…









Set up a pine scrap, as a test bed…..needed to adjust the 62 anyway…









Took a few tries…..has right hand threads to adjust the depth….









The No. 14 did it's normal thing….it also has no camber…









Seems they agreed to "work together".....


----------



## RWE

You must declare a winner. You are being politically correct. "Work together". The shop is a war, let the best plane win.


----------



## bandit571

Waiting on more of this stuff to show up…









Then we shall see…


----------



## terryR

the little 164 is the go-to plane in my seldom used shop. quickly gaining patina.


----------



## Mosquito

So I got this quarter's MWTCA GristMill and read the cover. It says 'Sargent Blockplanes' And I think, hey I wonder if that's… Yup, DonW lol


----------



## donwilwol

Damn Mos, I have not seen it yet!! It made the cover?


----------



## DLK

Yes it did.


----------



## DLK

.


----------



## Mosquito

Well, inside cover, not outside paper protector, but yes. "Sargent blockplanes, page 30" Good stuff, thanks for sharing that. I've thought about submitting something for #45s, but David Heckel is a frequent contributor, and he literally wrote the book on #45s lol


----------



## donwilwol

> Well, inside cover, not outside paper protector, but yes. "Sargent blockplanes, page 30" Good stuff, thanks for sharing that. I ve thought about submitting something for #45s, but David Heckel is a frequent contributor, and he literally wrote the book on #45s lol
> 
> - Mosquito


Well, he literally wrote the book on Sargent to. Additional information is always good. Sometimes Dave needs to do more research before writing.


----------



## bandit571

See anything interesting…









They were a bit rich for me….









Look carefully,, there is a 60-1/2 sitting in there..









There was a Handyman #4 size hiding here….I just walked on by…









Didn't see any planes here, either….









I did spend $10 on this Stanley #82…..


----------



## BlasterStumps

Bandit, thanks for sharing the pictures of the tag sale items. My wife said she hopes I don't find out where that is. : )

Good job finding an undamaged 82. It seems like many of them have been broken.
Mike


----------



## bandit571

Every Labor Day weekend at West Liberty, OH. They have a Tractor Fest…









100 or so tractors show up, along with a bunch of these things..









That they even had running…









And a mile or 2 of vendors to walk through….The saw mill on site wasn't running today, though….
Show runs through Monday….FREE parking, FREE admission…


----------



## bandit571

Have started to clean up the No. 82…..

Has a Patent date of 1-29-07
Logo on cap iron (?) is the Stanley inside the clipped corner box….and has No. 82 above the bolt.

Knurled bolt to tighten the cap iron on to the blade…Stanley Rule & Level Co. New Britain CONN USA

Thumbscrew to adjust the angle, with a hole..has a "4" stamped in it.

Brass ferral (sp) has a crack in it….and a dimple to hold things in place.

Tang has a steel pin through the handle….does not go all the way through the handle…

Still learning how to sharpen the blade…..blade has no logo stamped on it…

Might be a while, before any shavings will appear….


----------



## carguy460

It's been awhile since I've been around, but just picked up an odd plane, wondering if anyone knows anything about it.

No identifying marks so far on the body, but the iron indicates "Parplus". What's odd is that the frog is cast into the body. Anyone have any ideas? From what I've read ParPlus planes were stamped frog tools, so the iron might not be original…




























EDIT: I forgot about the sideways picture situation, sorry!


----------



## bandit571

ParPlus….








Had one for a while..
.



























Something to go on…


----------



## donwilwol

@Carguy, here is one I had. I was super impressed how nice it worked, http://www.timetestedtools.net/2017/01/20/a-fulton-of-a-different-breed/


----------



## BlasterStumps

It took three to make one. I had a late Stanley 78 for some time and didn't like it. I found a couple more the other day so I did some experimenting. One of the planes I picked up was a Wards Master. It looks all the world like an old Stanley. I cleaned it up, rubbed it on some sandpaper, robbed parts from the other two and WOW! Now I have a good one. Feels good in hand, its heavy, and cuts much like I can only imagine it should. My go-to rebate plane has been a wooden one that I converted into a moving fillister. It is not much to look at but works great. I might have to give this old Wards plane the job now. It's the one front and center.









I have to say that I much prefer the 'tap to adjust' on the blade adjustment over the lever style.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

just resurrected this today…a 7c

__
https://flic.kr/p/44390467072

it is available to any anchor-bound folks….

Eric


----------



## realcowtown_eric

you should look at some of the British equivalents that use two rods instead of one, and have a front knob . they are so much more workable than the stanley 78's

https://www.faithfulltools.com/p/FAIPLANE778/778-Rebate-Plane-in-Wooden-Box shows the two rod arrangement
http://wodentools.com/thewodenwseventyeightrebateplane.html shows the front knob which is easy t o fabricate for a stanley 78

search for perfection, or at least ease of use….

Eric


----------



## adot45

> See anything interesting…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were a bit rich for me….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look carefully,, there is a 60-1/2 sitting in there..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a Handyman #4 size hiding here….I just walked on by…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn t see any planes here, either….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did spend $10 on this Stanley #82…..
> 
> - bandit571


If I stepped onto a Fairgrounds or parking lot with that much stuff I'd be grabin some nitro….....wow.

I did have some luck this weekend though. I got an early 220 that I needed and like you, picked up a No,82 for $10 but mine is pretty rusty.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Eric, 
Someone recently posted a picture of the Woden knob. I think it might work good to have one on the 78. Might give it a try. Thanks for the info. 
Mike


----------



## BillWhite

Blaster, I bought a Sargent VBM 79 from Robert Porter recently, and it looked as if it had been VERY lightly used (if at all).
That puppy cleaned up easily, and the steel in the iron was some of the hardest I've ever encountered. It is the "tap to adjust" style. Quite heavy, and the knickers had never been sharpened.
Quite the plane, and was not expensive at all.
Lookin' forward to putting it to work.


----------



## carguy460

Bandit - that's exactly what I've found, I guess the iron does go with the plane.

Don - so it seems Fulton is the same as this Parplus I've got…wonder how many other brands were made with this frog setup?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Bill, I had to rob the knicker from the plane on the right in my pictures. It is dull dull. I need to see if I can put an edge of sorts on it too. That will be fun. 
Mike


----------



## bandit571

Sharpen nicker by just mooshing in back and forth on the flat side (back) using the eraser end of a pencil…










My #78 is from Wards Master Quality ( Stanley) and came almost mint from an ebay seller a few years back. Yes. I get a sore left thumb, when I use this all day….


----------



## DanKrager

Bandit, I'm going to put a front knob on the front of my #78 where the bull nose blade is mounted. Round tuit, ya' know. Should eliminate that sore thumb.

DanK


----------



## bandit571

Found out, IF I cut the thumb off of an old leather glove…and wear that…no more sore thumb.


----------



## BillWhite

The Sargent has a front "horn". Sure makes it easier to use.


----------



## bandit571

When they haven't been broken off….


----------



## RWE

I have been considering buying a plow plane. There are some relatively inexpensive Stanley 50's on sale. However, they don't have the irons. Will a 45 iron work in a 50? Is there a better option for a plow than the 50? I will use it to plow drawer side groves and to make groves for bottoms and lids for boxes. I have a full set and a partial set of 45 irons, so if the 50 will use those irons, I am good.

I realize that I can use the 45, but then I would not have an excuse to get another plane.


----------



## Mosquito

#45 irons will work in a #50, yes.

Other options for plowing grooves, a lot of people like record 044's for drawer bottoms or box tops. I've seen people also use a #48/#49 (Tongue and Groove planes), because it's always set up to put a groove the same distance from the edge every time


----------



## RWE

Thanks Mos. I had a 48 in my hand at a cash only Flea Market and was $5 bucks short of the $20 price (Momma had spent the reserve on the grand baby, oh well). Hope to run across one again. I think I will pop on a 50 in the meantime.


----------



## Mosquito

I've always wanted to get my hands on a Record 043 for drawer bottoms. It's a palm sized plow plane, essentially


----------



## RWE

I picked up a mid-sixties Record Jack plane a month or so back. It was in really good shape. Flat sole, flat iron. Based on the equivalent time period for Stanley, it was surprisingly well made. I guess their standards did not fall off as much during that time period. I had seen Paul Sellers pull out various Record planes in his video series, so I just grabbed it up ($35) and I am very pleased with it. However it is the first and only Record plane I have seen in the wild. I assume you must be looking on Ebay for them? I will post some pictures at some point. I don't see much on here about Record planes.


----------



## tshiker

Mos,

I picked up a Rapier version of the 043 plane and love it! I started out looking for the Record two rod 78 but I came across a review of the 043 by Derek and decided to try it. You can find very good deals on this plane if patient (I paid $45 for mine). To me it feels great in the hand and easier to control then the 78. I think I'm going to go to the hardware store and by some stock to make shorter rods as the rods that came with it are too long and I have a thing about cutting origina parts.

Tom.


> Ridden by guilt, I slipped out to the shop to glue the jointer.
> 
> I had not researched the plane since I originally picked it up a long time ago. It seems the iron was made by Stormont - Fine Edge Tools, see link:
> 
> https://baroldstools.blogspot.com/2013/07/stormont-fine-edge-tools-1926-catalogue.html
> 
> On page 10 of the catalog the iron is listed as a double iron, brass nutted plane iron.
> 
> I will joint the bottom, do a light cleaning and put some BLO/Alchohol on it, then test it out again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plane is checked into rehab:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note the beautiful grain:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess the biggest question I have now is whether the plane is American or English.
> 
> There seems to be a lot of info on Stormont products and the link above states the company was founded in 1899 which probably means the plane is an early 1900 s model. Other than the splits at the mouth that I am repairing, it is solid and has no checking. So being an early 1900 s plane might make sense as far as the condition of the wood.
> 
> - RWE





> I ve always wanted to get my hands on a Record 043 for drawer bottoms. It s a palm sized plow plane, essentially
> 
> - Mosquito


----------



## WayneC

I've got a number of 043 and 044s. The 043 is one of my favorite planes. There have been a couple of 043s on ebay recently that have been affordable.


----------



## bandit571

Box has been mailed…will arrive at his mailbox this coming Thursday…..sending both a 1/4" Tongue ( Match) cutter, and the groove cutter that matches it..#13. And a pound of Bubble-wrap…have tracking number, IF he wants it.


----------



## RWE

Well I got a Stanley 50 just a few minutes ago on Ebay. Now I have to lust after an 043. The picture above does look like a good plane for smaller work, like box making. There is always something else that a man needs in his workshop.


----------



## bandit571

Someone was asking about a jack plane I brought home…well, not much can be done with it..









Someone else had tried to clean it up….there is a dividing line down the center…









Starts here at the toe…and goes all the way…









To the heel. Handle has slid forward almost an inch….missing the iron. Might be a source of Beech? 
There is a bit of a marking on the toe….almost like a Coat of arms shield…or a Cartouche? May just send it to the fire pit….


----------



## BlasterStumps

"The Claw" : )


----------



## BlasterStumps

Tried to turn "The Claw" into a horn, whatcha think?









When I got the Wards Master clone of a 78, I also picked up a Craftsman clone of a MF 85. Along with those two, I also got this thing:
It says on it NO. 194,
If I only had a blade,
And then, if I knew what it was for.


----------



## bandit571

Ever hear of Fibre Board? There were three planes made for working the stuff….Leach HATES these "things"

look them up on his B & G site…..

BTW..your's does have the blade in it…


----------



## RWE

The improved claw is nice. Can't tell from the pictures where a blade would go on the 194. You win the award for most unusual find of the month and you may be up there for most unusual find of the year.


----------



## bandit571

It cuts a champfer edge on fibre board…..made in the 1930 and 1940s era…..usually used a razor blade as a cutter.


----------



## BlasterStumps

No blade, just the blade holder. I think it used a razor blade style cutter trapped at an angle under the part you can see there with two screws holding it on.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane pictures….









And…









No. 8..type 7…..and…









And a Stanley No. 7c, type 9


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Needed a few short runs of car siding for a shed patch, no joy. Bought a 'V-Bottom' mouler a few months ago, gave it a try on some YP T&G, instant siding!


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, is the adjustable fence on the side a depth stop or side fence?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Depth.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm.
.








hmm..









Hmmm.









ah ha,...









Compare to a jack plane..









Large shoulder plane?


----------



## DLK

The Auburn tool company price list has a 1 1/2 inch Skew Rabbet plane as number 181 .


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks like remnants of a 181 in the first of those pics. Skew rabbet it is.


----------



## BenDupre

Not sure if this facebook link will play but check this out

https://www.facebook.com/254934824680430/posts/1070311813142723/

Amazing how thin the shaving.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Maybe the wooden hand plane of your dreams is hiding here:
https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/tls/d/mountain-of-antique-wood/6679877996.html


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I bet so!


----------



## theoldfart

I would love to dive in that dumpster!

A few of those plows, if in bad shape, could be converted into kerf planes.


----------



## bandit571

Don't forget to wear a bib….


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> I would love to dive in that dumpster!
> A few of those plows, if in bad shape, could be converted into kerf planes.
> - theoldfart


I have no use for more wood planes I will not use. But that CL listing is really short drive from me. Thinking I might call and go visit this weekend just to drool over the history collection. Who knows maybe I can find some antique wood chisels, maybe a metal plane that I would actually want to use. 

Regardless, hope I don't regret offering this:
Would be willing to act as super cheap transportation service to UPS pack/ship service less than 1 mile from the owners CL pin for any LJ member here that buys some of those planes directly from owner via phone. A phone number is listed on CL ad for you to call them directly. I want nothing to do with money, so please do not ask me to spend hours hunting for special makers marks, and/or specific models or process payments. See if they will give you a video call? 
I would be happy to review that you are getting a dozen of the best looking plow planes in collection, or verify quantity before you send them a zelle pay or paypal and immediately go drop your booty off at UPS for you to have packed and shipped directly to you (you pay them direct with CC as well).

Who wants to give me a reason to go 'buy' some $10 wood planes? 
Contact me via PM if you need wood plane transportation service. 

Cheers!


----------



## theoldfart

Captain, that's a generous offer but I'm on the "wagon" right now. Something about a half dozen purchase in the last few weeks. Since the pickings around here are scarce I've resorted to on line sellers so the bill runs through the family finances.


----------



## waho6o9

2 cool Captain!


----------



## WayneC

> Captain, that s a generous offer but I m on the "wagon" right now. Something about a half dozen purchase in the last few weeks. Since the pickings around here are scarce I ve resorted to on line sellers so the bill runs through the family finances.
> 
> - theoldfart


Sounds like we need to go on a hunting trip. Get you off of eBay…lol


----------



## theoldfart

Me thinks we have a plan!


----------



## WayneC

Have you checked out Placerville?


----------



## theoldfart

Not yet. I've actually gotten some good tools from Jim Bode, Josh Clark at Hyper Kitten and swap and sell on WoodNet. I picked up a couple of 5' bar clamps at a tag sale in Nevada City.

What's Placerville like?


----------



## WayneC

Like Nevada City with a number of antique stores. There used to be some others in the area. Good restaurants in the area. We can stop in Coloma on the way over and see the gold discovery site.


----------



## donwilwol

Oh boy. California will never be the same. All you need now is POA to tag along!


----------



## bandit571

Guess I'm stuck with this one..









Can't afford the trip out that way….


----------



## bandit571

These two, may need a bit of work ( haven't bought them..yet)









Have no idea who made this one….has a pair of "rivets" up front…









Might be beyond my skill to "save"..

hang your coat up?









Might need a little work?









Ya think?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The maker of that 'Coat Rack' should be dope-slapped.


----------



## theoldfart

^ at a minimum. Damn philistines!


----------



## JayT

At least it appears they didn't do any long term or permanent damage. Take out the screws, make a couple knobs and it's a fully functional router plane again.


----------



## bandit571

Just for gifts & giggles…this was also hanging around..


----------



## shampeon

I was just watching one of those home renovation shows and they tore out all this highly figured beech wainscoting in an old row house and drywalled and painted it all. They kept a couple door frames with trim and described the remodel as "keeping the period detail". Made me want to throw things. I shouldn't watch those shows.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Picture…









Shavings?









Even had a smaller jointer in use, besides Old Heft & Hubris…









Stanley No. 6c, Type 10


----------



## bandit571

Random plane picture, from today's follies….









Needed a few of these done..









A little bit of candle wax, helps a lot…..Plough plane was made down in Cincinnati, OH…about 1864…was rebuilt earlier this year, as a rehab.


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, i like the plane.


----------



## BlasterStumps

You obviously live in a good area for finding old tools. I'd have to drive 60 miles at least to find that many old tools all together in a shop and they wouldn't be anywhere close to that nice. 
What kind of pricing to they have on things.?



> Just for gifts & giggles…this was also hanging around..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bandit571


----------



## bandit571

That big wooden screw was..I think..$65…Shop a block away has more tools….that breast drill some have been fixing up? $25 over there..


----------



## CL810

Picked up a Union 413 at a flea market. Seller had reconditioned it with thorough cleaning and Painting of the lettering. Blade has pitting near the cutting edge for about a 1/16" but is in good shape after that. Sole is in great shape.

Anyone have any knowledge of dating this? My best estimate of what little I could find was approx. 1920.


----------



## chrisstef

> The maker of that Coat Rack should be dope-slapped.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


By far my old mans favorite line! "I oughtta dope slap ya"


----------



## donwilwol

> Picked up a Union 413 at a flea market. Seller had reconditioned it with thorough cleaning and Painting of the lettering. Blade has pitting near the cutting edge for about a 1/16" but is in good shape after that. Sole is in great shape.
> 
> Anyone have any knowledge of dating this? My best estimate of what little I could find was approx. 1920.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - CL810


Probably actually Stanley made after the completely took over Union in 1920 and before around 1940ish.


----------



## bandit571

That cook rack 71-1/2? Guy refused to lower his price…$32+tax (7%)..so….anyone wants it, it is in the 100 block of West Columbus Ave. , Bellefontaine,OH…..Walk in right past the cashier's desk, first room on the right. Will still be hanging on the left wall. Good luck….not worth the candle for me.

Went across the street, and downstairs to the "Junk Rescue" section….and spent a little less..$9.65 counting tax. 
Chuck key for a 1/2" Jacob's chuck
A "perfection" screwdriver
And. one of the smallest eggbeater drills made. 
Works for me..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Here's a qestion I got on my blog. I do remember this study. Anybody know if it's found anywhere else. Shame to see that knowledge lost.

"I came across your blog looking for Walt's lateral adjuster study, which was on his Website. Using it you could identify almost any plane that was made by a manufacturer regardless of the brand name on the plane. Does the study exist anywhere that you know of?"

Thought I'd hit up the experts.


----------



## donwilwol

Red, I did something similar
http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/26/quickly-identify-your-hand-plane/

Walt's went away after he passed away.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The Wayback Machine is your friend.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120914071016/http://www.brasscityrecords.com:80/toolworks/graphics/plane%20id.html

(Not to downplay at all the great work Yoda does…)


----------



## bandit571

Random plane at work photo..
.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dang, thanks yoda and Smitty.

Confession: sometimes I'd buy a few little things from Walt just because I liked talking to him. Hope he's resting in hand plane heaven.


----------



## TheFridge

Nice grab Andy.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Not quite right, is it?


















I'm on the lookout for a front 'knob' for this old 9 1/2 or whatever it is. 
Mike


----------



## bandit571

Type 2?









Maybe?


----------



## HokieKen

Needs the eccentric adjustment lever for opening/closing the mouth too Mike. I did have a couple of extra knobs and maybe one lever once upon a time but I think I gave them all away. I look tonight when I get home an be sure though.

Next to my 140 skewed block, my 9-1/2 is my most used block plane


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have been known to improvise. : )









Nice plane Bandit. I think I saw it once before in one of your pictures. This is my first excelsior. 
Thanks Kenny. I appreciate you looking for the parts for me. 
Mike

I run some thread in this little drawer knob, cut a shot piece off that long bolt and threaded it into the knob. Then I put it together so that I could give the plane a test run. I could tell that there is some work that still needs done. I need to flatten the sole a touch yet. When I get all the little things on it taken care of, I plan to give it a soak to get the rust off and then I will spray it with some black engine paint. It should be a nice little block plane after all that.


----------



## Mosquito

new knob looks good Mike. I should have something to post sometime this evening as well


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Mos. Strangely enough, it appears the threads in the mouth piece are not the same as a later 9 1/2. Also the threaded stud of the knob is shorter. Might be tough to find a replacement knob.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

*will the LJ member selling their wooden planes please raise their hand? *
.








.
Craigslist Link Here for however long it lasts, in case anyone has dreams of buying wooden planes. 

Cheers!


----------



## Mosquito

This is definitely not "sharp as ever", but I had to try it. This just arrived at my door today, and I unpacked it, and put it to use. I didn't sharpen the iron, I didn't clean up any rust, I just assembled, waxed, and used. More to come later


----------



## Mosquito

And figured out how you do sash with it…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Looks way interesting Mos. Can't wait to see more.
Mike


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sashmaking = Very Cool


----------



## Mosquito

Can you believe I've made sash with this plane before using a #45 to do it now?! This plane, is actually quite interesting in that area… Capable of different sash molding profiles, and you can vary the width between the molding and the rabbet from what I have shown, to as wide as the rods allow. Also, the depth stop is odd, but kinda cool.

I shot some video of it last night, that I'll try to edit tonight when I get home from work. Want to do a follow up after I learn some more about it, and maybe get it cleaned up a little, and sharpen some irons


----------



## terryR

Mos, that is a beautiful plane; and impressive work.


----------



## bandit571

Needed a few grooves made, today….was easier to grab the Olde Plough, than reset the Stanley 45..









Seemed to work well enough…









More curlies than shavings…









Only needed 8 grooves milled


----------



## HokieKen

I didn't forget about ya Mike! Well, I did but not permanently ;-). Sorry though, I don't have any knobs or adjusting levers at all.


----------



## bandit571

Toe of that plough plane is marked..

ROSEBOOM

CIN. O.

Maybe by G. F. Roseboom? 1840s-1850s?

Maybe?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks for looking Kenny. I suspect a donor plane will come along. 
Mike


----------



## Mosquito

First video is up, just getting it unpacked and initial observations of the plane. Have part of an "in use" video already done, just want to get little more "use" in it


----------



## WayneC

Looks like a fun toy.


----------



## TheFridge

Maybe he should get all his toys together and have a fun party


----------



## terryR

Pure awesomeness, Mos.


----------



## Mosquito

This was the initial test run. No cleaning, no sharpening, just set it up and go


----------



## donwilwol

That's cool Mos. Your probably the only person to use a Fales in 100 years!


----------



## Mosquito

And I almost feel bad about that… I do want to keep using it though, I'd almost say I like it more than the #45!

(Don't tell them that)


----------



## BillWhite

Just imagine what that puppy will do when it is all sharpened and cleaned. Great find for sure.


----------



## Mosquito

This time, some sash (yes, the board was too thin lol)


----------



## richardwootton

Hey Jocks! I've been thinking about thinning out some of my collection. Mainly a Diamond Edge DE-8 with the Gutta Percha tote and my Stanley #45 which I believe is complete with all cutters, etc. I'm just trying to see what kind of interest there may be. Also, it's been a long time since I've been here, so if I'm posting in the wrong spot, just let me know!


----------



## chrisstef

This is like trying to sell drugs back to your dealer. ^

We expect better outta you buddy. If youre hard up for dough consider selling a kidney. But not the tools man. Not the tools.

Just bustin your chops. Good to see ya. (Kinda).


----------



## bandit571

Sometimes, when the bigger planes just can't reach into that one spot…









Stanley No. 60-1/2…vs..White Oak…right at a glue joint.

Yes, that IS the Cordovan colour plane.


----------



## richardwootton

Ha! Glad to see you too Stef! I've gotten pretty big into green woodworking and my planes just haven't seen the same use that they use to. I'd rather see my lesser used and rarer planes in the hands of someone that'll use them.


----------



## bandit571

A Stanley Type 20, #45 at work..









And feeling "Groovy".....will be do "Match" work later, this week…got the groove part…..


----------



## terryR

Searching for a new, or nicer, iron for a Millers Falls no.75 block plane, for a friend. Give me a shout if you can help.


----------



## theoldfart

Now this is a cool plane

Outside my comfort zone cost wise but still cool!


----------



## RWE

Flea market find today. ($20.00) No 56 Millers Falls. Needs cleaning but seems to be be in decent shape.










Also picked up the Garland hammer. ($7.00) I was not familiar with that type of hammer. It seems that someone inserted wood heads using epoxy. I was surprised to see the split head models going for big bucks on Amazon. This seems to be a #1. I figured it will make a nice chisel mallet. Any Garland hammer folks please pipe in. This is not a split head, so I assume it is older.

Excited about the MF 56. I have a Stanley 60 1/2 which is the same size and bed angle and a 9 1/2. I will post again after I get it put back into shape. I have been working on a Millers Falls/Dunlap #3 as well. Should have it ready soon.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Another dreamy hand plane purchase for some lucky person.










https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/tls/d/antique-stanley-no-851-chest/6750736630.html

Just not me…


----------



## theoldfart

Don't show that to Smitty, he'll get upset.
A sweet heart to boot!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Already saw it. Wanna pick it up for me, Kevin? ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

I might except what makes you think i'd pass it on? ;-(


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

yeah, there is that I guess. clearly I'll be doing without that case. Easy come, easy go.


----------



## Mosquito

I don't know… it looks awfully nice Smitty…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Only a 1,500 mile problem…


----------



## theoldfart

Easier for me, only 800+ miles 
Only twelve hours each way.


----------



## TheFridge

I'm pretty sure that's what they make plane tickets for


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's what UPS is for…

EDIT: But Kevin, I bet the air is better in Tuscon!


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, can't argue much there though today was relatively good. Worked in the yard









And what to do with the arborists chips? Make a path of course.









And finally


----------



## CaptainKlutz

And now I know why old hand planes are so hard to find at garage sales in Arizona, 
some one has already bought 1435 of them …... YES ONE THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED & THIRTY FIVE?










https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/atq/d/1435-antique-planes-for-sale/6731147160.html

Wow. Could be your dream collection for ~$34 each.

If this is collection belongs to someone who hangs around LJ forums, please raise your hand to receive your accolades for amassing this collection.


----------



## putty

Arizona is a hot spot for old tools. So many people retired there and took their tools with them.


----------



## bandit571

And here I thought the 35 planes I have was a bit much….


----------



## KentInOttawa

a deal at less than $3.50/plane!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Today's 'Dream' arrived: a Stanley #90!


----------



## theoldfart

I've never heard of that plane, a Stanley infill? Who knew!

Congrats.

Have to sell one of the kids? 

Edit: you're comfortable with a metal planning stop? I think my lack of finesse would destroy my sacred planes.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hit brass stop w/ a blade once in eight years or so, it's no big deal anymore. And all four kids still here!


----------



## theoldfart

What vintage is the plane? Pre 1900?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Patrick says 1877-1888


----------



## theoldfart

Cool and thanks.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Some early observations on the steel case #90 skewed rabbet plane:

- the beech stuffing doesn't add much mass or weight
- the steel is bent / formed, meaning no hard corners
- most examples are said to be altered, filed to open their throats to reduce jammed shavings. Mine's original, and doesn't seem to clog any more than a typical moulding plane or H&R


----------



## theoldfart

I missed the skew. Why does the cutter look like two pieces? Maybe a pic of the throat?


----------



## Mosquito

That certainly is an interesting plane Smitty…

-

Anyone in need (want) of any corrugated Stanley Type 11 planes? I've got 3-8, excluding 5-1/2 for now (or at least the price on that one would be higher until I finish cleaning up the Keen Kutter lol). I can grab pictures for anyone interested in any, just let me know. I'll likely post a separate thread on LJ before going to craigslist/Ebay

Been cleaning and organizing shop this fall, and have finally arrived at the decision to let the Stanley bench planes go. I'm going to switch to the Keen Kutters I've got, or buy a couple LN's if that doesn't pan out.


----------



## TedT2

> That certainly is an interesting plane Smitty…
> 
> -
> 
> Anyone in need (want) of any corrugated Stanley Type 11 planes? I ve got 3-8, excluding 5-1/2 for now (or at least the price on that one would be higher until I finish cleaning up the Keen Kutter lol). I can grab pictures for anyone interested in any, just let me know. I ll likely post a separate thread on LJ before going to craigslist/Ebay
> 
> Been cleaning and organizing shop this fall, and have finally arrived at the decision to let the Stanley bench planes go. I m going to switch to the Keen Kutters I ve got, or buy a couple LN s if that doesn t pan out.
> 
> - Mosquito


I would be all over your planes if finances were different… I've been working on my set of type 11 C's. My favorite planes….


----------



## TheFridge

Finances? How about a handy or 3?  I'm all about horse trades


----------



## Mosquito

There's nothing "Horse" about you Fridge…


----------



## TheFridge

(Sad face emoji) ain't that the truth


----------



## Mosquito

LOL we'll call it a blessing and a curse


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## theoldfart

I see a Hock iron/breaker set on a No.1 by chance?


----------



## donwilwol

> I see a Hock iron/breaker set on a No.1 by chance?
> 
> - theoldfart


It's a Sargent type 3/4 #409 with a Hock chip breaker iron set. Some gorgeous Mahogany wood.


----------



## TheFridge

Mmmmmm hmmmmmm


----------



## theoldfart

Smoother size then?


----------



## bandit571

That would be a #4 sized Sargent.

Random plane photo…..









Wards No. 78 (Stanley) vs Ash…


----------



## CFrye

Since you said #409, does that mean it is smooth bottomed, Don? Sure is pretty!


----------



## bandit571

Keep hearing…"She's real fine…my 4 0 9.."

There is a #3 sized #408 in my shop…..


----------



## donwilwol

> Since you said #409, does that mean it is smooth bottomed, Don? Sure is pretty!
> 
> - CFrye


It is smooth. There are more pictures here http://www.timetestedtools.net/sargent-planes-for-sale/sargent-409-smoother-with-hock-upgrade-my-409-112718-1-32/


----------



## dbray55

That collection is remarkable.


----------



## bandit571

Random plane picture..









Made in England, Stanley….a #4c size. Panel is Ash, needed to be flattened…after the cambered jack leveled the glued joints…


----------



## Mosquito

Anyone have a need/use for an IBC #8 sized plane iron? It's the .140" variety, for LN/Wood River planes, and does not fit a standard Stanley bench plane. I did find, however, that they work with Keen Kutter KK series planes/chip breakers (which is what I was buying for). It could also probably be used for making your own plane too, as it's substantially thicker than a Stanley bench plane

I screwed up and accidentally ended up with 2 of them in my last order. $55 shipped in the US. Figured I'd see if anyone here wanted it, before I tried to talk to IBC for a return.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mos, wonder if it'd work in a Diamond Edge # 4 1/2? Include chip breaker, or will it work with OEM breaker? I'll measure width tonight.


----------



## HokieKen

4-1/2 is a 2-3/8" blade IIRC.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yeah, vs. 2 5/8" for the No. 8, I'm not sure if the DE varied at all; I think mine was mfg'd by Union. The iron is totally used up, so it's more hope than probability at this point.


----------



## HokieKen

It would be awesome if the #8 blade would fit. I'd love to have a #4-1/2 with a wider blade


----------



## Phil32

On a related topic:
While on a volunteer service trip in Nicaragua I happened to visit a furniture shop where a worker was trying to smooth a board of exotic wood with a hand plane. This was a 16" x 28" piece apparently cut from the crotch of a large tree. I asked the proprietor f I could buy the board - partly to spare the worker from the frustration of trying to deal with the twisted grain. He agreed, and I asked him what kind of wood it was (is). He said "Cenisaro." I asked him to write it on a scrap of paper.










When I got home I asked about it in an exotic wood store. The guy said, "Cenisaro means ashtray in Spanish!" There was nothing close in his reference books. He said it looks like a variety of Acacia.

On a return trip to Nicaragua I was working with a young man who got his college degree in local plants. He said, "It is likely Genizaro, one of the national trees of Nicaragua. "Genizaro" is a local name for a variety of Monkeypod.

Fortunately I do not have to plane it smooth. I plan to carve a relief into the surface.


----------



## JayT

Mos, how can it fit a KK and not a Stanley since they are the same pattern?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Phil, looks like an amazing piece. "Ashtray" is hilarious, too.


----------



## HokieKen

> Mos, how can it fit a KK and not a Stanley since they are the same pattern?
> 
> - JayT


I seem to recall the KK has a wider mouth?


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos, how can it fit a KK and not a Stanley since they are the same pattern?
> 
> - JayT


It does have a wider mouth, like Ken thought, but that's not the whole of it. 
When I say KK series, I mean the KK# (i.e. planes labeled KK 8), and not the K series ( labeled K 8). The KK series was made by Ohio. The K series were the ones made from the early bedrock patterns. The earlier Ohio made KK series used a thick tapered iron, which is what allows the original chip breaker to work with this thick iron. I'll try to get some detailed pictures of it tonight when I get home.



> Mos, wonder if it d work in a Diamond Edge # 4 1/2? Include chip breaker, or will it work with OEM breaker? I ll measure width tonight.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


It would largely depend on the width obviously, but if the original iron for it was thick, or tapered like the Ohio planes (I'm not as familiar with the Union planes, the only two I have is a #45 clone, and a Siegley #2 clone). That's the only reason I'm able to use the OEM chip breaker with the Keen Kutters I've got.

And for clarity, I do not have a chip breaker for the spare #8 iron I have, it's the iron only

When I tried the 2-3/8" wide #4-1/2 / #5-1/2 / #6 / #7 iron in my 2-1/4" sized #5-1/2, it did not fit without filing the cheeks of the mouth open more, which I did not want to do, so my guess would be 2-3/8 to 2-5/8 would be a bit much. Unless you wanted to get out the grinder, and make a rabbet plane


----------



## Mosquito

that's a fun story Phil, and I agree with Smitty, re: ash tray lol


----------



## Mosquito

thinking about it more, I suppose technically if the chip breaker screw was long enough, the .140" thick iron would work with any plane, though may require you to file the mouth open enough on some planes (like Stanleys). Or, if someone had the ability to make their own chip breaker screw. I just know that my Ohio Keen Kutters work with no modifications to the plane, or the original OEM chip breaker. The Stanley planes would need to have the mouth filed open, and a replacement chipbreaker screw, from my experience with my type 11's


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'd be willing to file the DE. Just sayin…


----------



## Mosquito

Actually, I have to amend my previous post(s). Another reason it works in my Keen Kutter KK series planes, and this is the big reason, is that the yoke for adjusting blade depth is also designed to be long enough to still reach the slot in the chip breaker (the other issue with the Stanley planes I ran into).

That's probably the biggest issue


----------



## HokieKen

Sounds like a standard 2-3/8" iron is what you need Smitty. Hock makes replacements that should fit in O1 and A2. I have one in my Record 07 jointer.


----------



## HokieKen

FWIW, if it comes down to it though, I can make someone a longer chip breaker screw.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That DE #4 1/2 lives in the bottom of the toolchest, not used much. It would get used more if it had a decent cutter. Something to consider.


----------



## Mosquito

IBC also makes replacemnet irons for Stanley planes (they're thicker than Stanley irons, but thinner than LN/Wood River). They're .095"thick (.025" thicker than stock Stanley), and my preference, because I'm shallow and I like the shape of the iron more


----------



## HokieKen

They do look pretty nice Mos'. That's my complaint about Hock irons. I don't like the more rectangular shape. It just doesn't look "right".


----------



## WayneC

I'm still in the Hock camp. 

Did not see their name in the mix.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I just have to say … WTH? What are people smoking?

https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/60825091


----------



## BenDupre

> I just have to say … WTH? What are people smoking?
> 
> https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/60825091
> 
> - BlasterStumps


the EBAY effect…


----------



## WayneC

Looks more like 1950s or 60s to me….


----------



## Mosquito

Keen Kutter KK 4-1/2 iron on the left, Stanley Type 11 4-1/2 on the right


----------



## BlasterStumps

Well I am stunned. That type 19 closed out at auction for $76 plus shipping (I'm estimating that to be about $20 to $22 or maybe a bit more). I think the value of my old Stanleys is going up. : )

Makes me feel a bit better about spending (gambling) $22 on a type 5, 604C last night but, oh yes, with shipping on top of that. It was a fourty buck bill for the lot. It's a gamble because I have not had the plane in my hands yet to get a decent look at it. Always a gamble. I've done good on some bad on others. Just have to wait and see on this one. If it is good, I will have a set of 604, 605, and 607. Fingers crossed.

Mos, I have thick blade like that but it is tapered over it's length. Would it be for a wooden plane?


----------



## bandit571

Have an Ohio 0-35, with a tapered blade…might be a bit too narrow for a DE 8…and the slot in the chipbreaker would be in the wrong spot.


----------



## Mosquito

Mike, that Keen Kutter iron is tapered as well, but not as dramatically as most wooden plane irons, so if yours tapers drastically, that would be my guess.

This is the same Keen Kutter iron (top) along side my Fulton wooden jack (Sandusky) tapered iron


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

DE #4 1/2 has a blade that is, sadly in this case, 2 3/8" wide…


----------



## 000

My father in law passed recently, going through his things we found some of his tools.
He used to make doll houses, train sets and such as a hobby. 
Inside a box he had a bunch of x-acto knifes and x-acto saw blades and a few small hand planes, 
Made by x-acto.

There not very high quality but I thought I would share them just for the hey of it.










There was also a mini spokeshave.


----------



## RWE

Jbay:

I was thinking of how restoring old planes made me think of my childhood and putting together model planes and cars. I just painted (japanned) a couple of planes and my mind was running in that direction. That spokeshave is very cool. The x-acto planes are also very cool. I have a couple of those small Stanley violin makers planes, and the X-acto planes appear to be very similar in size.

As a side note, I saw my old Erector Set in a Antique Mall the other day. It was listed at $120.00. I still have mine. My son had little interest in it. When I get buried, maybe they will put it on Ebay. LOL

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## warrenkicker

Some guy had a bunch of tools for sale and I wasn't the first one there so I missed on few things but I did find this spokeshave hiding in the pile. Just couldn't leave it there. Apparently it is modern and you can buy it for around $8 but it is interesting. Sweetheart bevel gage there too.


----------



## TheFridge

Can't go wrong with one of them t bevels


----------



## BlasterStumps

I mentioned this plane in an earlier post thinking it was a type 5 but, now I am thinking it is a type 6 because the lever cap has BED ROCK on it. Anyway, it went into the soak today. The tote was busted in two and the knob is real rough with a chunk missing out of it. So far with what inspection I was able to do on the plane, no hairline cracks that I noticed. Hopefully when I take it out of the soak tomorrow, I can confirm that. I may be looking for a new blade for this plane. Possibly a Hock with chip breaker. Have to see how I like the plane first.


----------



## donwilwol

I'm pretty sure you'll like that plane. And I'm not one to replace a blade unless it's absolutely necessary, but there is just something about a Hock in a Bedrock.


----------



## BlasterStumps

couple progress pics:



























Still need to paint it and turn a knob. The blade is not the best. Might need a replacement. But it makes nice shavings anyway.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Random plane pic, Stanley Bed Rock 608 with PM11 blade earning it's keep jointing edge of 2.25" thick plank:


----------



## bandit571

Had to remove some burn marks..









What better way than plane them away..









3 patent date #3 Stanley…


----------



## DLK

Woodcraft had $10 off $35 purchase and I first bought a hock 2" iron and then in another purchase the hock chip breaker for it, receiving $10 off of each. Total was $55 if I bought them together with the $10 off it would cost $59.
Anyway now that I have a size 2 plane and (soon to arrive) breaker what vintage smoother do you recommend for it: Stanley, Miller Falls, Sargent, Ohio, wooden, K4, bedrock or other ???? What would make the best smoother. Or should I consider a Jack.


----------



## donwilwol

It's hard to say what is the best "brand". If tuned properly they all make great users. My favorites tend to have more to do with the cool factor. A union x, (go ahead try to find a #2 size) a Sargent Shaw patent, Stanley bedrock would round out the top 3.


----------



## donwilwol

> What would make the best smoother.
> 
> - Combo Prof


http://www.timetestedtools.net/2018/02/06/tuning-time-what-vintage-hand-plane-is-best/


----------



## BlasterStumps

CaptainKlutz, that is a really cool picture you took of that 608 at work. I like that. Nice plane. 
Mike


----------



## DLK

.


----------



## DLK

> It s hard to say what is the best "brand". If tuned properly they all make great users. My favorites tend to have more to do with the cool factor. A union x, (go ahead try to find a #2 size) a Sargent Shaw patent, Stanley bedrock would round out the top 3.
> 
> - Don W


Oops I see I made a confusing typo. I wrote " I have a size 2 *plane* and (soon to arrive) breaker " I meant 
I have a size 2" *hock iron* and (soon to arrive) breaker "


----------



## DLK

> What would make the best smoother.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> http://www.timetestedtools.net/2018/02/06/tuning-time-what-vintage-hand-plane-is-best/
> 
> - Don W


Thanks. How do you tell if a Sargent plane is pre-Stanley ( before Stanley bought Sargent)?


----------



## HokieKen

I'm partial to Millers Falls planes Don. The #9 is a great little smoother. For the cool factor, try to find a type 1 with the name embossed in the casting around the knob


----------



## DLK

I put just the iron into my sad MF number 9 (it needs some more work) and it did not seem to fit unless I backed the MF breaker back. It did fit in me cool craftsman made by MF though. Maybe I should just try them all until I find what I like best. I could not get the shop above 35℉.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'm not sure a Hock blade would fit the 604 I just got without some modification to the mouth of the plane. Sure has a narrow mouth opening. If I had one to try I would check it out but since I don't, I think I will look for a standard Stanley No 4 blade.

DonK, I hope you can find a really nice smoother. I have my favorite but each person will have different likes and dislikes. SW Stanleys seem nice.


----------



## DLK

I have 8 or 12 smoothers just trying to find the one that deserves the hock blade. Or maybe I need to buy a few more.


----------



## Mosquito

Yup, just keep using until you find what you like most. For me it's a #5-1/2 or #6, sometimes a #3, sometimes #164. Depends on what I'm doing


----------



## donwilwol

> What would make the best smoother.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> http://www.timetestedtools.net/2018/02/06/tuning-time-what-vintage-hand-plane-is-best/
> 
> - Don W
> 
> Thanks. How do you tell if a Sargent plane is pre-Stanley ( before Stanley bought Sargent)?
> 
> - Combo Prof


Stanley never bought Sargent. Sargent is still in business today, they just don't make Planes anymore.


----------



## DLK

Well Im confused. Which type Sargent "size 4" planes are worth looking for?


----------



## BlasterStumps

DonK, I had a really nice, practically unused size 4 Craftsman made by MF that I thought was a very good plane. I gave it to the HVAC guy that services our hydronic heating and hot water system. Trying to get him interested in woodworking. : ) That Craftsman plane was one of the best smoother planes I have ever tried out. I can only imagine that a Hock blade set up in one of those would be even sweeter. 
Mike


----------



## DLK

Maybe the craftsman will do. I doesn't have the 3 point lever cap that MF has, but otherwise seems just as nice.
I will post the result when the breaker arrives. I wonder if I will be able to tell the difference between the two irons.

Thanks all for the info/advice.


----------



## donwilwol

> Well Im confused. Which type Sargent "size 4" planes are worth looking for?
> 
> - Combo Prof


The Sargent #409, or #9


----------



## socrbent

Purchased this #5 this evening from an online estate sale (EBTH) for $35 plus shipping and tax. Looks like the iron has a Sweetheart logo from 1923-32. Could anyone provide other info?


----------



## theoldfart

Diamond Edge plane


----------



## HokieKen

Yep. Diamond Edge #5


----------



## shampeon

Don't think that's the original rear tote. Diamond Edge planes had a composite one. So it looks like a bit of a frankenplane.

The tote is going to have to be repaired or replaced. It's not particularly hard to fix, but it'll involve regluing the crack in the middle, and restoring the horn. The horn will involve cutting a flat surface, gluing on a piece of wood, and reshaping the horn.


----------



## BlasterStumps

socrbent, With some work, that DE 5 could be a nice jack. When you start cleaning, check it close to be sure the main casting is still solid, no cracks. Congrats on the find. I'm thinking someone mixed in a Stanley blade. With some work, you could make the tote whole again. Nice little low knob on it. 
Mike

Edit: I think Diamond Edge tools were sold by Shapleigh Hardware


----------



## socrbent

Thanks for the quick responses. Looks like I've got some work to make it an user. Ian looks like you did a great job repairing that tote.


----------



## bandit571

Seem to recall a DE 5 came through the shop…









Front knob..









Rear handle…









Cleaned up nicely….had a DE iron. and a smooth sole


----------



## HokieKen

> Thanks for the quick responses. Looks like I ve got some work to make it an user. Ian looks like you did a great job repairing that tote.
> 
> - socrbent


You have some work to do to make it pretty. It might be a user already ;-). Let us know how it goes!


----------



## socrbent

Any guesses on age?


----------



## shampeon

Thanks. Those are a couple different totes I repaired. The first pic is to show a relatively safe way of getting a clean, flat surface for the repair.

Bandit's DE looks similar, so maybe the wooden tote is original. What I'm a little confused about is it sure looks like it says "DE 6" in the casting, but it looks like a jack plane size.


----------



## socrbent

I also thought it was a 6 until a close look at 6th photo. The sale site said it is 14" long.


----------



## bandit571

It is a "5" note the straight section…









Composite handles were Gutta Percha, a type of hard rubber. This one came with a DE 6..









That took a lot more work to fix up…









Refund paid for a new base casting…..this USED to be a DE 6c….


----------



## socrbent

Bandit - that one looks really rough. Did you salvage any of it?


----------



## bandit571

These..and the frog


















I think the "new" base might have been by Stanley…









Cleaned up nicely…


----------



## BlasterStumps

All done. Painted and knob made. 








It was pretty rough to start but now that it is cleaned up I am liking it more and more.


----------



## theoldfart

Beautiful plane Don. How is it in use?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Hi Kevin,
I wasn't sure if you were asking me how the 604 was in use or if you were meaning that for Don at TTT. If it was me, I have only just set it up to edge plane a 1" board. I did not radius or round the corners of the cutter. Just straight across. So I think before I can use it for real, I will need to touch up the cutter. It is plenty sharp and seems very nice for what I have done with it so far. Out of the three Bedrocks I have, this one seems to have had the least use and is easier to set up, IMO. 
Mike


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Mike, I did mean you.


----------



## JohnMcClure

This seems like the thread to ask this question, rather than creating a new topic:
I'm thinking about trying some plane making but wanted it to be something unique.
Is a moving-fillister rabbet plane useful, or worth trying to build? 
Seems like a neat gadget but then again, so many of those just collect dust because there are more versatile tools for accomplishing the same task. And this particular plane seems pretty complicated, what with the adjustable nicker and the fence…
What are your thoughts, plane enthusiasts?


----------



## BlasterStumps

"Is a moving-fillister rabbet plane useful, or worth trying to build?" 
Simple answer from my point of view is yes. and yes. 
They are fairly easy to make. Lots of them out there available. I made one using a couple L brackets fastened to side of a rabbet plane then added a fence to those brackets that can be adjusted. 
I would be interested in seeing what you come up with. 
Mike

edit: Don't know that the nicker is all that necessary.


----------



## DanKrager

Skew planes are not as common as planes with blades straight across. Skew cuts are more useful in general IMHO. Here are some advantages:
1. the skew can help hold the plane against the rabbet shoulder.
2. the effective cutting angle of a skew sharpened at 30° bevel is about 27°
3. a skew is especially effective on end grain making it useful as a shooting plane if the shoulders are square to the base
4. if used to trim end grain tenon shoulders there will be less blowout on an unprotected back side. 
5. trimming dovetails and box joints is easier.
6. 
So, JM, I probably just talked myself into making something with a skew …

DanK


----------



## bandit571

Mine…









1.25" Auburn Tool Co. No. 181…


----------



## JohnMcClure

Using a skew sounds like it makes a lot of sense. I must be 3d challenged because it sounds like the bed geometry and blade geometry are compound… any pics to put that into perspective?


----------



## DLK

If I were you I'd go find a plane like bandit shows and buy it. Then you have something to study and measure. They are fairly easy to find. I see 3 or 4 on ebay for about $30. You can find them cheaper.


----------



## JohnMcClure

> If I were you I d go find a plane like bandit shows and buy it. Then you have something to study and measure. They are fairly easy to find. I see 3 or 4 on ebay for about $30. You can find them cheaper.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Thanks! I'll check out Ebay.


----------



## donwilwol

> If I were you I d go find a plane like bandit shows and buy it. Then you have something to study and measure. They are fairly easy to find. I see 3 or 4 on ebay for about $30. You can find them cheaper.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> Thanks! I ll check out Ebay.
> 
> - JohnMcClure


I think I have one in the shop I bought for the parts. I planned to rebuild it someday but I'll probably never get to it. I can check if you're interested in it. It'll go cheap!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Title this post: "What's Next?"

If you know me at all, I've truly enjoyed getting my hands on the standard bench planes as well as specialty 'weird' planes across the Stanley line over the last several years. I like trying them out, comparing capabilities, and sharing pics and stories here on LJs, from the #113 to the #278, from #52 to #444 to the #50 and all points in between.

Bench planes, yep.
Dado and rabbet planes, yep.
Mitre / shooting board planes, yep.
Ploughs / multiplies, yep.
Shoulder planes, yep.
Scrapers, yep.

So, what else is out there y'all would love to try but haven't run across in the wild? Thought about the #196, but that one's too strange for even me to be interested in. No practical use for it.

Input?


----------



## HokieKen

How about a 340 Furring Plane Smitty?


----------



## theoldfart

There are routers

Edit: maybe a 57 qualifies as a router on steroids


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I got routers covered (small, large), but furring plane, that's a good one. Not a totally unique function -kinda more like a scrub- but different.

Edit: And the #57, that's right! Very fun to use!


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I actually never heard of one, I was just trying to pick something off of Blood and Gore for ya ;-) I would genuinely be interested in how it compares to a scrub though.

Another plane I have wanted for a while now is a 112 scraper plane. They're available but out of my price range. I scrape a lot though and I like my #12 and my #80. I think a 112 would go a long way to reducing fatigue on large panels and the like.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'd go for a #212!


----------



## HokieKen

I'd be interested in the usefulness of a 212. For something that small, my gut tells my that just hand-held cards and goosenecks are a better choice. It also seems like it would be sorta awkward with the knob in the back but nothing in the front to really hold onto. The 112 is much more appealing to me but I'd certainly have a dance or two with a 212 if someone wants to give me one! ;-P


----------



## WayneC

Scrubs? A 212 has been on my list forever.

Mmmm. Routers. Never met one I did not like.


----------



## theoldfart

Wayne, I spy with my little eye some Prestons! Jealous.


----------



## TheFridge

Smitty. You have the standard 9, 51, & 62 already right?  20 or 20-1/2?

Isn't a 52 the chute board itself?


----------



## WayneC

How about T&G Planes?


----------



## WayneC

> Wayne, I spy with my little eye some Prestons! Jealous.
> 
> - theoldfart


I'm still looking for the big ones.


----------



## TheFridge

Solid comeback


----------



## WayneC

Chisel planes?


----------



## theoldfart

I'm more interested in the small and medium Prestons. I have the usual full size open and closed throat routers along with a miniature router.


----------



## JohnMcClure

Don,
I am interested! Could you check on that for me?


> I think I have one in the shop I bought for the parts. I planned to rebuild it someday but I ll probably never get to it. I can check if you re interested in it. It ll go cheap!
> 
> - Don W


----------



## Mosquito

Wayne, did you ever end up getting a Walke Moore router?

They're ridiculously hard to get, like literally have to camp the page knowing when he's going to list more, and jump on it as soon as you can…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Smitty. You have the standard 9, 51, & 62 already right?  20 or 20-1/2?
> 
> Isn't a 52 the chute board itself?
> 
> - TheFridge


Yep, yep and yep. No #20, just a variant of the 113. 51/52, yep.

Wayne has a router problem.

Chisel plane, hmmmm.


----------



## donwilwol

> Don,
> I am interested! Could you check on that for me?
> 
> I think I have one in the shop I bought for the parts. I planned to rebuild it someday but I ll probably never get to it. I can check if you re interested in it. It ll go cheap!
> 
> - Don W
> 
> - JohnMcClure


Shoot me a PM if I forget again!


----------



## WayneC

> Wayne, did you ever end up getting a Walke Moore router?
> 
> They re ridiculously hard to get, like literally have to camp the page knowing when he s going to list more, and jump on it as soon as you can…
> 
> - Mosquito


Hmmmm. I got a good bonus from work. Might be the time.


----------



## WayneC

> Wayne has a router problem.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


That is a bit of an understatement. lol


----------



## BlasterStumps

Wow Wayne. Nice tools. My 'collection' looks like they came from the island of misfit toys in comparison.


----------



## donwilwol

> Don,
> I am interested! Could you check on that for me?
> 
> I think I have one in the shop I bought for the parts. I planned to rebuild it someday but I ll probably never get to it. I can check if you re interested in it. It ll go cheap!
> 
> - Don W
> 
> - JohnMcClure
> 
> Shoot me a PM if I forget again!
> 
> - Don W


----------



## JohnMcClure

Don, if you don't plan to use it I'd be happy to take it off your hands as a learning experience. Please PM me details. Shipping would be to 77354.
Thank you!


----------



## BlasterStumps

That wood plane has it all going on. Skew blade, side escapement, depth stop, sliding fillister, knicker. I may have missed something. : )
Mike


----------



## Mosquito

> I may have missed something. : )
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Boxing, from the looks for it


----------



## bandit571

Looks like someone stacked a couple pieces of thin plywood..as a fence…


----------



## dbray55

Has anybody had any experience with the Jessem router equipment?

I just ordered the Mast-R-Lift II table top, router, and fence.

Those planes and routers are crazy nice. I doubt if the people that made those tools ever thought they would be taken care of like these are.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I think you did good on the Mast-R-Lift. 
We was just by your area over Thanksgiving on the way up the coast to St Augustine and then over to the panhandle.. Palm Bay looks like a nice place to retire.


----------



## dbray55

A whole lot warmer than Maryland. Did I mention - a lot less taxes?


----------



## 33706

*Here are some of my restorations and/or recent acquisitions:*










*A re-habbed Stanley #34. The body had been 'bobbed' to fit a toolbox. My new bed is 32 inches… why not bigger is better!*










*A Stanley Liberty Bell #132 with a new wooden body extended to 34" In progress.*

















*
Some other Liberty Bell planes, a #135 with a new bed, a #105, #129, and #104. That's a #37 Jenny in back*.


















*Finally got one!! A Turner #4 with Permaloid tote and knob! Yeahhh..*










*A Sargent Shaw Patent #3, and an Eclipse #2.*

*Hope you like!!*


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Definite congrats on the 104 and 105, PK! And I love the permaloid too!


----------



## donwilwol

Wow, some cool stuff there poopie


----------



## DLK

*poopiekat*: Nice job on the 34. How did you make the label.


----------



## bandit571

And I thought the Stanley No. 33 was huge…


















Wound up shipping that "aircraft carrier" sized plane to Oahu, HI.


----------



## 33706

True enough,* Bandit*! Yeah, the #33 should be 28 inches, the #34 should be 30 inches. On an earlier #32 project, the wood was unsavable, so I made a new sole and realized, 'hey, I could make this any length I want!!'

I really like doing these long Stanley transitionals, as long as they have the 2 5/8" cutter.

*Don K:* Okay… I'll let you in on my secret, I read it somewhere. Go to Staples and get a pad of onion skin paper.
Tape a sheet of onion skin to a regular sheet of paper. Just at the corners. Shove it in your inkjet printer and print your image onto the onion skin. This stuff was never meant to go through a printer and it lacks rigidity to get dragged through, this is why you must tape it to a sheet of something else. Be sure there is no other paper sheets in the tray. After you've printed your dragonfly, Hello Kitty or text, simply cut out the image. A nice wet coat of clear poly above and below where your image will lie.. (or was it shellac? ) your onion skin will be transparent and your image will come through nicely. Try it!! I guess a laser printer would work as well, dunno.

... And now we'll see a dozen applique'd projects here and on Pinterest.

*DonW*: When I pulled that Turner out of the box, those handles looked like wood. I panicked, until I held it up to the light!! Question is, how many Millers Falls did I walk by without realizing they too were Permaloid? Gotta look close!!

Thanks all, for your great comments!!!


----------



## 33706

Oh, and Thanks, *Smitty* , for your kind words about the Liberty planes. I got the whole set now, in various stages of re-hab. Don't ever buy one if that adjustment nib is missing from the height adjuster/ cutter iron. I notice they're often missing, perhaps somebody snarfed one for another plane. I got a couple of #127's too, I couldn't find them for the pics.


----------



## donwilwol

The Shaw Patent is a #8 (#3 size). I think these are the second best plane ever made, right behind the union x series. The whole adjustable frog thing is bunk, but it's a heavy plane with quality manufacturing.


----------



## 33706

Thanks, DonW! Mine sits in a dark corner awaiting a refurbishment. That's an interesting testimonial about the Shaw Patent planes. I'll take it for a spin and see if it gives me the warm fuzzies. If I ever cull the herd, it will be about keeping the favored users and shedding the bad ones that only have value as collector's items.

I have one true Union X, and one with the correct adjusting lever but was never drilled and tapped for the upright rod.
I think this was a later iteration and cheaper than the true X series. Planes with the Norris-style adjuster make more sense to me, but that's just my opinion.


----------



## dbray55

Poopiekat - those are some beautiful planes.

I just got the JessEm router tabletop, lift, router, and fence. I was only permitted to check everything to make sure there were no shipping issues. I cannot assemble or anything until after (you know)...

The MasterLift II is one serious piece of hardware. I will do a review on it when I get everything together and have the cabinet made. Thinking about how I want the router cabinet to look, maybe something like the New Yankee's version or something else. The one I made many years ago, the router area was too big and accumulated too much debris. The cabinet must be of the same quality as the hardware in it.

Any thoughts?

We will see.


----------



## 33706

dbray55,
Thanks for the kind words!

Yeah, I like Norm's version of a router table/cabinet.

Any router lifter is a good one if the bit height is adjustable through the insert with a allen hex wrench or similar.
At my advancing age, I am trying to eliminate airborne dust in my shop and pretty much leave my routers on a back shelf these days.

You might get more feedback on Jess-Em in another LJ thread, this one is being watched primarily by hand plane guys.

I'm anxious to see your new router cabinet, please post pics when it's done!! Ty.


----------



## bandit571

Random plane photo…









3 patent dates, Stanley No.3c….with a SW iron, no less…

And something "else" 









Stanley No. 28 and No. 29….


----------



## 33706

I've got maybe a dozen Stanley 78s, and they get used for all kinds of details. However, I've wanted a #778 for a long long time. These are a bit different to the regular 78s in that there is a dual post for the fence. This makes your setting more likely to stay in place. There is also a much better blade height mechanism. This newly acquired Record #778 will undoubtedly take the place of my 78s, and my #180-series and @190 series planes as well, I like it that much. This one came with an Ashley Iles aftermarket cutter. I just dislike that hideous Irwin blue color! Woden also made a #778 but they're rare around here, but a nicer midnite blue color.


----------



## KentInOttawa

*Poopiekat: *I also like my 778, but unlike you, I have nothing to compare it against. I also don't think that the Record blue shouldn't be allowed on planes, but there it is.


----------



## 33706

Thanks, Kent! In the original 'HOYD' thread, somebody said that they, too, liked making their raised panels with a trusted 78. They really are a cool iron type of plane. Time was, you could buy these for a few dollars at yard sales, just to get your hands on the fence and rod, or depth adjuster. I hung onto my extra ones because if nothing else they have the spurs. This new (to me) 778 may wear out its current nicker.


----------



## DLK

Been without email for a few days.

*poopieka*t: Thanks for the "onion skin" information. I now seem to recall that too. Never thought about using this decopage technique for labeling planes.


> Any router lifter is a good one if the bit height is adjustable through the insert with a allen hex wrench or similar.
> At my advancing age, I am trying to eliminate airborne dust in my shop and pretty much leave my routers on a back shelf these days.
> 
> - poopiekat


I did the Stumpy Numbs router lift build. and with the dust collector attached there is little or no dust. But just in case I set it on top of my downdraft table and voila no dust up my nose.


----------



## socrbent

Cleaning and tuning the Diamond Edge #5 that I got a week ago. It is in decent shape. 

























I need some advise from this astute group. When I was flattening the sole there is an area in front of mouth not even with rear of mouth (see photo 2). I this critical?

The edge close to edge of blade back about 1/32 wide has a secondary bevel (Photo below). How should this be addressed?


----------



## DanKrager

I would address it with "Hello there." and put it to work to wear it off as sharpening progresses. It doesn't look like enough to be noticeable in the cutting.

DanK


----------



## JayT

Depends on how you are doing to use the plane. For a fore plane, it's not a big deal. For a smoother, then I like the front of the mouth to be very flat. I agree with Dan, though, use the plane and see if you like how it performs.


----------



## socrbent

Thanks Dan and Jay. I plan to use it for my first shooting board. I'll sharpen the bevel side and see what she can do.


----------



## 33706

*DonK:* Though I will continue to use the onion skin method for figural transfers, I am now in possession of a few sets of letter and number stamps of various sizes. I'm now trying to think of a jig design in order to get the individual punches aligned and spaced properly.


----------



## DLK

> *DonK:* Though I will continue to use the onion skin method for figural transfers, I am now in possession of a few sets of letter and number stamps of various sizes. I m now trying to think of a jig design in order to get the individual punches aligned and spaced properly.
> 
> - poopiekat


Let me know what you figure out. I have such trouble with the set I bought.


----------



## bandit571

Think of doing like a typesetter would…..shims for the spacings. Make a metal box/ring that fits around the stamps, and a way to drive all the letters at once…..maybe a bar across?


----------



## DLK

I am not sure you would have to drive them all at once., but maybe you do. A press would be a nice solution for driving the composing stick and could be easily made from a press screw


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> I am now in possession of a few sets of letter and number stamps of various sizes. I m now trying to think of a jig design in order to get the individual punches aligned and spaced properly.
> 
> - poopiekat


Every manual metal stamp set I have ever used, included a stamp holder? 
Similar to these randomly found on WWW:
https://www.steelstamps.com/14quot-interchangeable-steel-type-and-type-hold14.html
https://www.pannier.com/stamping/marking-presses/type-and-type-holders/

There is also a type of letter stamping hammer with integrated holder:
https://www.pannier.com/stamping/type-holders/supreme-safe-type-holders/

Best Luck.


----------



## DLK

Thanks *CaptainKlutz*. The set I bought has no such holder. It has a one "letter" holder in a spring driver. You pull up on the end of the driver and release. The force of the spring drives the driver into the letter leaving the imprint, where you set it. At least thats what it's supposed to do. Instead it moves and twists out of set and leaves a crooked out of alignment letter. I think I may just try hammering the letter stamp.


----------



## 33706

Thanks, guys for all the thoughtful suggestions for driving number stamps. In my own mind I tried to think of an arbor press that works horizontally instead of vertically, with a fixture that clamps onto the nose of your transitional plane. I'd prefer to press rather than hit with a hammer. With something like a horizontal-action De-Sta-Co clamp
where I can carefully control the depth of penetration. With hammer hits I'd fear double strikes or crooked letters due to rebounding of a hammer. I prefer manually controlled leverage, or at least the thought of it, to avoid some ugly, ham-fisted results.


----------



## DanKrager

PK, if you're doing a lot of marking, perhaps a shop press in the 10-20 ton range. The pressure required for multiple letters simultaneously making an impression requires a LOT more force than individual letters. If a smaller hydraulic press held one stamp at a time and a fixture held the target, like on a compound vise slide, you could get uniform predictable results (UPR). Maybe. UPR is a unicorn in all the metal stamping world I've seen.

DanK


----------



## PPBart

> ...I did the Stumpy Numbs router lift build...


I just bought the plans for that lift. Also considering purchase of a new heftier router for use in the project (have a PC 1.5 HP now), but probably won't do anything until after holidays. Did you run into any glitches in the build?


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> uniform predictable results (UPR) is a unicorn in all the metal stamping world I've seen.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


More like finding +100 Unicorns IME.


----------



## 33706

> uniform predictable results (UPR) is a unicorn in all the metal stamping world I ve seen.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager
> 
> More like finding +100 Unicorns IME.
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


Well, I am sorta happy with the onion skin results… plus I could do that Stanley elf logo, where he's skateboarding atop a cutter!!


----------



## DLK

> ...I did the Stumpy Numbs router lift build...
> 
> I just bought the plans for that lift. Also considering purchase of a new heftier router for use in the project (have a PC 1.5 HP now), but probably won t do anything until after holidays. Did you run into any glitches in the build?
> 
> - PPBart


No glitches with the build. I think it is the best and easiest DYI router lift out there. Just be smart and think about what you are doing. (I guess could give that advice with regards to any build. LOL )

After the build when using the router I had tow issues.

(1) when you change the router height remember to loosen the locking knob for otherwise when you try lift or lower the router you will tear the threaded rod out. It is however an easy repair, because you can take the top and/or bottom off to get to the mechanism. I now only tighten it if I need the router bit to be perpendicular (orthogonal) to the table top.

(2) my rings don't lock in and so under full router speed with dust collector off will the lift off hit the router bit and try to impale into your chest or wall. It is quite exciting. Turning the dust collector first solves the problem. I may think of a way to lock the rings down.

Anyway it works great!


----------



## PPBart

> ...No glitches with the build…Anyway it works great!...


OK, thanks! I'm looking forward to getting started on mine.


----------



## thedude50

Happy New Year Gentelmen


----------



## Lazyman

I found this plane in an old toolbox of a buddy of mine. He told me I could take anything I wanted. Only thing worth taking was this plane. I cleaned off what looked like a 100 years worth of grime, cleaned off a layer of rust on the blade, put a quick edge on it and gave it a try. It works amazingly well.




























After finding the owners initials under the grime I decided that it needed to stay in the family so I give it back them for xmas. I searched for the makers mark and the only thing I could find was an ad in a Philadelphia newspaper from 1818.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Of course it works well! 

Skewed rabbet plane, very nice.

And kudos for giving it back. I'd have kept it, knowing the plane would rather be used than put on a shelf. Hope they appreciated your very generous gift!

Thanks for sharing the stories and the pics.


----------



## Lazyman

I see that you don't follow your own signature line.  I've been wanting to make one anyway so now that I see how well one can work, I may have to give it a try.

I actually gave it to my friend's son who is more likely to use it than my friend is. He was pretty excited and had tons of questions. He took notes about how to set it up, sharpen it, etc.. He already made himself a standing desk a couple of years ago so I am hoping that this might get him started again making stuff.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> I see that you don t follow your own signature line.
> 
> - Lazyman


Guilty!

(I typically do the opposite of that line, lol)


----------



## HokieKen

Very nice Nathan ) Hopefully that fellow will put it to work!


----------



## fuigb

^ can your #8 do that?


----------



## bandit571

Have a pair of "Frogs" 









Haven't really done much with them…









Not sure if they are much more than shelf-sitters…









French markings on the irons…


----------



## knockknock

> I see that you don t follow your own signature line.
> 
> - Lazyman
> 
> 
> 
> Guilty!
> 
> (I typically do the opposite of that line, lol)
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop
> 
> -Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -OldTools Archive-
Click to expand...

I always thought that was self evident, as the second clause contradicts the first clause. ?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

(exactly!)


----------



## BlasterStumps

Bandit, on those wooden planes it looks almost like someone had cut the bottoms and was getting ready to add new bottoms on them. 
Mike


----------



## bandit571

More likely, they are both too well worn down, both need new wood bodies….anyone want them?


----------



## revrok

> ^ can your #8 do that?
> 
> - fuigb


I think the question is… yeah it's shaving sharp but who would I trust with it?


----------



## bandit571

The irons on those two "shelf-sitters" are marked with a single "Eyeball" logo….then Goldenberg, below that. Then marked as ACIER FONDU then A GARANTIE They seemed to have been a little too well used, about a #3 size plane.


----------



## RWE

I have a French friend who I will email and get to do some web research on the images and words on the irons. I figure they could deal with research better than I, with the language issue.


----------



## bandit571

Stands for Cast Steel Guaranteed

Company is now owned by Peugeot? French Carmaker, et al….


----------



## Lazyman

On a whim, I bought this cheap little Japanese block plane on Amazon last summer for under $10 (free Prime shipping) and I have been very impressed. It came razor sharp and even though I have used (abused) the heck out of it I still have not had to sharpen it yet. While it probably is not going be one of those planes that lasts a lifetime, I continue to be amazed at how well it works and and long it has maintained its edge









BTW, the genno hammer in the picture was one that I received from LJ Bobasaurus in last year's Mallet swap and the real reason I bought the plane. If you have a hammer designed for adjusting Japanese hand planes you really should have one to adjust.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thought I would share a couple pictures of this old side escapement 42mm plane I picked up today. I think it just might be the oldest tool in my shop now. : ) The imprint on it's nose reads KENNEDY&CO HARTFORD. Might be a somewhat of a rare one.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Anyone on LJs have this book? I'm looking for info on the Kennedy plane. Thanks in advance to anyone who has info they would share on it.
Mike

Collecting Antique Tools 
by Herbert P. Kean (Author), Emil Pollak (Author)


----------



## RWE

The Guide to the Makers of American Wooden Planes by Emil & Martyl Pollak has a full page on what I think is your plane's maker. Page 232. Your's looks like a type C imprint and matching style of wedge. It seems each mark or variation in the imprint would often get a different contour on the round top of the wedge.

I picked up the Guide on Amazon. I just checked and there is a 5th Edition that will show up as well. I am looking at a 4th edition copy.

If you PM me, I may can get a decent scan and email you the page. I would need your email to attach the scan.

I just checked and if I have the right read on it, it is rated one Star (asterisk) which in their rating system means Rare (between 250 to 500 known examples) 5 stars *** would mean only 10 examples or less and so on.


----------



## socrbent

I think my Diamond #5 estate sale find is a keeper. Spent a couple of hours reshaping the blade. Now it is making shavings on some poplar!








Started build of a shooting board.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks RWE I will send PM


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice job on the Diamond Edge plane socrbent


----------



## RWE

Kennedy page for Blaster:

Deleted to avoid copyright issues.


----------



## BlasterStumps

RWE, this imprint is the same as shown next to the letter "C"


----------



## RWE

If you look just above where the imprints are shown, you will see the line
A B C & E, FF, D & I 1 Star The other imprints are 5 Star.

I figure your plane, which is a beautiful specimen by the way, was made in the heyday of the company when they produced some volume.

For some reason, asterisks will not show up in the body of these messages.


----------



## BlasterStumps

That is good to know RWE. Not so rare but a cool old round. Might be from mid century 1900's. 
Thanks again. 
Mike


----------



## thedude50

Hey guys I am looking for someone to make me a knob and tote for a 602 in cocobolo or eirw or a pristine condition original set

Hope you are well.

Peace be with you!


----------



## WayneC

Something I have wanted for a long time.


----------



## HokieKen

Hubba Hubba Wayne! That one's on my "wishlist" too. But doubtful it'll ever be on the "need list" unfortunately…


----------



## WayneC

> Hubba Hubba Wayne! That one s on my "wishlist" too. But doubtful it ll ever be on the "need list" unfortunately…
> 
> - HokieKen


I agree on the need list. Sometimes you just have to answer the wish list.


----------



## theoldfart

Wayne, pretty little thing. A 212?

Some day but it's a want vs need for me as well.


----------



## donwilwol

that's some bling bling Wayne!!


----------



## JADobson

Hey guys - anyone here have a spare fence and depth stop for a 78?


----------



## DLK

> Hey guys - anyone here have a spare fence and depth stop for a 78?
> 
> - JADobson


Good luck finding them cheaply. I've been scrounging for 78 parts for a long time.

It may be easier and cheaper to turn your incomplete 78 into a scrub plane by cambering the blade and then buying another 78 that has all it parts. You can of course buy them from  nh plane parts for the ridiculous price of $27.95 + $24.95 + shipping and more more if you also need the rod and depth stop screw they will $19.95 + $25.95 more .

You can find complete ones on ebay for less then buying all the missing parts.

And it looks like now that there are parts on ebay you may be able to get for half what nh plane parts is selling them for.

I think someone could make a successful business out of making parts for the Stanley 78.


----------



## JADobson

Thanks Don, yeah I'd been to nhplane part's website and seen his prices. Combine that with shipping to Canada and that's just not going to work. Scrub plane is an interesting idea though.


----------



## DLK

Try finding the same parts for a Sargent 79 or an Oho . Even more difficult.


----------



## Mosquito

I've never had a need, so I've never tried, but maybe you could locate somewhere that sold retail parts for the new/current version, and see if those fit. I'm sure it's not as good quality, but likely better than not having it. I know Stanley still sells the plane.

I'll go dig through my parts stash, I may have a fence, doubt I have a depth stop, but it's been a while since I've looked through that stash lol I know I sold one fence + rod a while ago, but thought I had 2


----------



## Mosquito

Apparently I have two



















Only have one fence rod though and that's in use by my own #78


----------



## JADobson

THanks Mos, I'm looking for the rods too so this won't work. But I'll try Stanley directly. Hadn't thought of that.


----------



## DLK

> THanks Mos, I'm looking for the rods too so this won't work. But I'll try Stanley directly. Hadn't thought of that.
> 
> - JADobson


I know someone who might make the rods for you.

I tried Stanley they say these parts are no longer available.


----------



## bandit571

Random plane photo….









Tenon clean up…


----------



## bobasaurus

I bought a keen kutter KK19 block plane at the local tool club for all of $2 last weekend. It had a cracked cheek and missing knob, but I wanted to try mig welding it back together so I gave it a shot today:

Original plane with crack:









Removing material to make room for the weld bead:









After a lot of cleanup, and after restoring the other parts:









Another view:









It works decently, but the iron required a steep back bevel to get to good steel and the high carbon piece is almost used up. I might replace it someday if I can find something that will fit:


----------



## donwilwol

I posted an answer elsewhere to, but that's a good repair.

I'd also look into a Hock iron. It's the nice thing about Hock. You can call and actually talk to him.


----------



## HokieKen

How wide is that iron Allen? I might have a spare vintage one for ya.


----------



## donwilwol

How did you weld it? Stick, Tig.mig?


----------



## WayneC

> Wayne, pretty little thing. A 212?
> 
> Some day but it s a want vs need for me as well.
> 
> - theoldfart


Yes it is.

Thanks Don. And thanks again for the Striking Knife you made for me.


----------



## WayneC

> How did you weld it? Stick, Tig.mig?
> 
> - Don W


Welding in the latest skill I'm working on. I've picked up a couple of welders.


----------



## donwilwol

I've been welding most of my life, I just never do enough to get good at it.


----------



## bobasaurus

Thanks Don. I used a small mig welder (gmaw, er70s-6 .030 wire). I'm still learning how to weld, so I'm sure the settings weren't optimal. I think the extra carbon in cast iron made it trickier… it seemed to sizzle more than I was expecting and seemed to burn out some pockets along the weld line. I cooled the piece slowly in vermiculite after welding to avoid cracking.

I appreciate the offer Ken, but for now I might try forge-welding on a new bit to the iron. It'll be tricky since it's so thin, but it would be a fun project.


----------



## corelz125

Allen a couple of things that would make welding it easier is to pre heat it and to use a cast iron wire. The cast iron wire can be pricey though.


----------



## bobasaurus

That's interesting, didn't know they made cast iron wire. Maybe next time. For $2 I was willing to experiment. Thought about preheating, but the sidewall was thin enough that I didn't bother (though I see how it could reduce rapid heating stresses).


----------



## donwilwol

Welding cast is a different process. Preheat it and try to make sure it cools slow. If you're welding a smoother or larger, make sure the rest of the plane stays cool so it doesn't warp.


----------



## corelz125

Cheap and easy post heat just put it in a bucket of sand.


----------



## Dcase

So I hear you guys are still here talking about hand planes??? I have not done much of anything over the past 3 years in terms of woodworking but the hand plane bug is biting me again.


----------



## theoldfart

Mauricio and Dan are n the house, some sort of strange celestial phenomena going on I don't know about?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Still talking and taking pics, Dan. Here's an S4 in action.


----------



## donwilwol

You know you need a copy. I'll have copies Monday or hit up Amazon!.


----------



## Dcase

Really happy to see you guys are still here. I burned myself out a few years ago, went through big job change, relationship change, had two more children and a host of other life things.. I just put woodworking aside for the most part.

A couple of months ago I finally got the itch to start working in the shop again. I got my shop cleaned out and started working on some small projects. I really had no intention of buying more planes or restoring planes. I have hundreds of planes and just wanted to focus on working with wood rather then buying and restoring more planes.

Well a few weeks ago I sold a power tool that I had no use for. I listed it on Craigslist. While I was on Craigslist I happened to catch a listing for a lot of planes. The seller was asking 50 dollars for the lot. I knew the 605 alone was worth more than that. I went ahead and purchased the lot. The lot included a 605, #3 Type 11, 151 shave, scraper plane, old wood bodied jointer, a Handyman #5 size and a Craftsman #4 size.

I had not restored/tuned a hand plane in 3 years. Here is how it turned out..



















I got hooked all over again. I was right back on ebay looking at planes. I ended up buying a couple more. I will post some pics in a little bit.


----------



## JayT

Hey Dan, glad to see you back at it. Your hand plane tuning and sharpening skills are still intact, I see. We're still BS'ing and talking planes, with a few changes. Some new faces, some familiar ones have moved on. Don obviously went from collecting to sharing his knowledge via the written word and I've progressed from restoring to building a signature design.










Don't be a stranger.


----------



## Dcase

After getting on Ebay a few weeks ago to look at planes the first thing I noticed is prices have really seemed to drop on most of the vintage planes. I guess the market on them has gone down a bit while I was away.

While browsing the first plane that really caught my eye was a Stanley #37 "Jenny" plane. Years ago when I was big into collecting one of my goals was to have an entire set of Stanley trans planes. I had all but two of them, the #21 and #37. The price on the #37 was a lot lower then what I remember it going for in the past so I put in my bid and won it.

The plane was in great condition. All I did was flatten the sole and sharpen the cutter. Unfortunately there is some damage to the wood right at the front of the mouth. This will prevent the plane to work as well as it could. I could plane it down past the damage but it would take too much off the sole. I will just leave it for now.

This plane is a beast


----------



## Dcase

Jay those look amazing! You have def come a long way. I wouldn't mind having one of those!


----------



## HokieKen

All ya gotta do is ask Dan! JT's been making those thongs and handing them out like candy. Only takes him about an hour to make one.

(I'm a total smartass Dan ^ none of that is true, just like razzin JT ;-) )


----------



## corelz125

All ya gotta do is ask Dan! JT's been making those thongs and handing them out like candy. Only takes him about an hour to make one.
(I'm a total smartass Dan ^ none of that is true, just like razzin JT ;-) )
- HokieKen
[/QUOTE]

I think I will have to pass on the JT thong


----------



## HokieKen

You sure corelz? They're see through! Gotta love misspellings


----------



## Dcase

I know this has been discussed before but I need a refresh.. What do you guys use to protect your planes and other hand tools from surface rust? What is the best thing to use?

After letting my shop sit unused for a while almost all of my planes got some surface rust. I am in process of going through them all one at a time and cleaning them up but I would like to avoid having to do this again anytime soon.

I have always protected my planes with paste wax and or a penetrating oil like PB Blaster or WD40.

I am most concerned with my planes that are rarely or never used. I have many that just sit for display. I want to coat them with something that will hopefully protect them better.


----------



## HokieKen

I like CRC-336 for rust prevention Dan. I buy it by the gallon and have a spray bottle for it. I mist a rag and wipe the soles of planes before I put them back in the till. Paul Sellers recommends 3-in-1 for the same purpose. I know somebody's going to ask… no, the oil has never stained my wood or affected my finishes. Like I said, it's a mist on a rag so it's a really thin coat.

For power tool tables, I use Johnson's Paste Wax.


----------



## RWE

Dan: I have had limited success with this Evapo-rust product:

Rust Block

https://www.amazon.com/Evapo-Rust-RB015-Inhibitor-solvents-FluidOunces/dp/B0037ZAJ88/ref=sr1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1548354839&sr=8-5&keywords=evaporust+rust+block

I have a type 11 Jack that is a user and a second one that I picked up because I cannot leave one to lanquish unappreciated on a shelf surrounded by all those weird "non-tool" antiques. The second one is a shelf sitter and it seems to have deep pitting on the sides and rusts up in the house where temperature and humidity are regulated pretty well.

Rust Block has worked on about everything else, but that type 11 is a hard case. I am interested to hear any other replies to your question.


----------



## Dcase

Like I said I am most concerned with my planes that really never get used. I would like to set up a corner of my basement shop as a display area for my collection planes. I plan to have dehumidifier down there in the summer. My basement does get some water that leaks in when we have really heavy rain so I am wondering if that is what caused a lot of my rust problems. When we get heavy rain the water comes in from foundation and I get a small puddle in the middle of my shop.

I know rust will always be an issue. I just feel there is a better way to protect them then what I have been using. I will look into the CRC-336 and Rust Block

I did put an old wardrobe cabinet in my shop recently. When we get to the really humid and wet season I plan on storing my most valuable planes in the cabinet.

Also I noticed my irons and chip breakers rusted the worst. I am almost positive that is due to me sharpening with water stones. I have been coating those in oil now after sharpening to hopefully prevent that.


----------



## HokieKen

For collector planes Dan, you could put a thin coat of shellac or varnish on the bare metal areas. Would provide really good protection and could easily be stripped if you decided to put it into service.


----------



## Dcase

I got a new plane in the mail today. The Stanley #21. I spent the afternoon getting it in working order. The sole of the plane was in great shape and required very little work. Still has enough wood left to where I can set it so the mouth is tight for a fine shaving. The cutter was also in decent shape so it didn't take long to sharpen.

There is a problem with the depth adjustment though. It has a lot of play and made it very hard to set the cutter where I wanted it.

All in all this is now one of my best working trans planes. I really like the size of this one.


----------



## HokieKen

Looks like it's pulling nice shavings Dan!


----------



## summerfi

I saw this old Burma Shave ditty in a publication and though you guys would appreciate it.

While searching for tools out in the shop
The youngster heard some metal drop
A plane had hit the concrete deck
All that was left was a busted wreck
Lessons hard had taught him more
His shop now has an oaken floor
BURMA SHAVE


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Love that!


----------



## Mosquito

Oh man, I go out sick for a week and Dan shows back up? I haven't made shavings pictures like that almost since you disappeared!


----------



## Dcase

I am honestly humbled that you guys even remembered me. Really shows how nice this site/community is.

I am full of questions since my return. My next question is do any of you guys make replacement knobs for planes or know a good place to get them cheap? I have some planes I need knobs for but I do not do any turning. I would be more then happy to pay to have some done.


----------



## corelz125

Are you looking for transitional knobs or bench plane?


----------



## Mosquito

How would I forget you Dan, you're the one who made me push myself to work on my sharpening technique, and hyper-tuning of planes ;-)


----------



## Dcase

Corelz- I am looking to get a few replacement knobs for Stanley metal bench planes. I am in need of a few short style for the older types and a few high ones for the later types.

Mos, I tended to be somewhat of a perfectionist when it came to tuning and sharpening. I think I spent more time on it then I should have. I took sharpening and tuning as a whole separate hobby.


----------



## Lazyman

Dan, I think are looking at this all wrong. Sounds like a perfect excuse to get a mini lathe. Making knobs is pretty easy and very satisfying for me. I haven't made one yet for a plane but I made some shift knobs a little while back for a buddy of mine and they were really fun to make.


----------



## corelz125

They have to be rosewood or any will do? I'll take a look in my parts box and see what I have tomorrow.


----------



## DanKrager

I have no access to Rosewood, but I'm happy to turn as many as the material will provide if sent some. I'll even send them back! 

DanK


----------



## BenDupre

> I have no access to Rosewood, but I m happy to turn as many as the material will provide if sent some. I ll even send them back!
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


You can usually find Rosewood bowl blanks at Rockler or Woodcraft that can easily be chunked into Knob blanks.

Ben


----------



## bobasaurus

I was having trouble with my great grandpa's No. 3 type 13, it seemed to get dull instantly and clog up too often. So I spent the day tuning it up (again). I bent the chipbreaker's tip down and re-flattened the leading edge, ground away some of the body casting behind the mouth as shaving relief/clearance, lapped the sole to 320 grit, and finally ground the tip back on the iron to get to fresh steel and lapped the back flat (to 15k grit) instead of ruler tricking. It's finally working respectably:










This is unrelated, but I'm also proud of this dragon head I forged yesterday from 1" steel bar:


----------



## Lazyman

Cool forging Allen!


----------



## Dcase

LazyMan- I may get a lathe someday. I am just getting back into woodworking though so I have to take baby steps.

Corelz- I am most concerned that they are shaped the same as the original Stanley knobs and they have the correct counter sink for the brass nut. I have a lot of spare knobs off other make planes but they do not work unless I modify them.

DanK- Rosewood would be ideal but it is not a big deal. Walnut would be my secondary choice because I can stain it to somewhat match the color of the rosewood. If you would turn some for me I would have no problem sending you some blanks and payment.


----------



## Dcase

Allen- For my chip breakers I always make them square at the edge and then I grind a bevel on them. I usual just grind it by hand using a honing guide. That way the edge of the chip breaker has a beveled edge. Then I flatten the back and make sure it sits nice and flat to the iron once tightened. I think the chip breaker is often neglected or not given enough time in the tuning/sharpening process. I myself hate tuning the chip breakers. 9 times out of 10 when I have a problem with shavings getting clogged in the mouth it is due to a poorly tuned chip breaker.

Another thing that can clog up the mouth is setting the frog too tight and taking too heavy of a shaving.

Looks like you have yours working well. That is a fine looking #3


----------



## bobasaurus

Thanks Dan and Nathan. I had previously tuned the chipbreaker, but when I checked today there was light visible in the gap so I had to redo it. I really love this plane, it was originally purchased by my great grandpa Ralph (so I've dubbed it the Ralph 13), and it doesn't look like it was used much. It was in a barn on my Aunt's ranch in WY for many years until she sent it my way, quite the rusty boat anchor before restoration.

I hope the blade will hold its edge now. There is clearly a lamination line visible, and a file glides off the high-carbon piece while biting into the rest. I might try making a replacement for it eventually.


----------



## WayneC

> This is unrelated, but I m also proud of this dragon head I forged yesterday from 1" steel bar:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bobasaurus


The dragon is awesome.


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## HokieKen

I want to forge a dragon! Too cool Allen )


----------



## bobasaurus

Thanks a lot. It looks a bit goofy, but I'm happy with it. Don't know what to make with it, it was going to be just practice but I like the result enough to maybe continue with it. I have a burned patch on my arm from hot scale landing on it, and a slightly-cooked tip of my pinky from when the high-temperature glove actually started to burn when chiseling the facial features.


----------



## DanKrager

Dan, I sent you a PM several days ago….

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

> Thanks a lot. It looks a bit goofy, but I m happy with it. *Don t know what to make with it*, it was going to be just practice but I like the result enough to maybe continue with it. I have a burned patch on my arm from hot scale landing on it, and a slightly-cooked tip of my pinky from when the high-temperature glove actually started to burn when chiseling the facial features.
> 
> - bobasaurus


Looks like a boot jack a'la Naughty Nelly to me!


----------



## Dcase

I don't often use my #8 so I was messing around with it tonight.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

One of my most used planes, love the No. 8. Nice pic, Dan.


----------



## Dcase

I would love to use it more but most of my projects are done with smaller boards so it is not often that I need to use a long jointer. The #8 and 6 are my least used of my bench planes.


----------



## Mosquito

I don't use a #8 often for similar reasons, but a little bit ago, I started using my #6 as my "long smoother" sort of replacing the #5-1/2 in that regard. Going from the #6 back to the #5-1/2 made the #5-1/2 feel small lol


----------



## CFrye

> - bobasaurus


Allen, can you make it from 3/4" bar for a hold fast? That''s the first thing I thought of when I saw it!


----------



## CFrye

> - bobasaurus


Allen, can you make it from 3/4" bar for a hold fast? That''s the first thing I thought of when I saw it!


----------



## corelz125

Nice looking #8.


----------



## HokieKen

> - bobasaurus
> 
> Allen, can you make it from 3/4" bar for a hold fast? That s the first thing I thought of when I saw it!
> 
> - CFrye


That's BRILLIANT Candy!! Allen, listen to the lady )


----------



## DLK

One of my favorite smoothers is now this Fulton transitional razee:










It has a nice tight mouth:


----------



## bobasaurus

> Allen, can you make it from 3/4" bar for a hold fast? That s the first thing I thought of when I saw it!
> 
> - CFrye


That's genius. I have a 3/4" dia bar of mild steel just waiting to become a holdfast, guess it'll be a dragonfast now.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice looking plane and nice looking shaving Don )


----------



## DLK

Best part is my friend gave it to me all restored and sharpened.


----------



## Dcase

Don- Looks like a really nice trans plane. Coming across one that I can still set with a tight mouth is rare.

I have been going through my planes one by one and cleaning off the dust and surface rust. Also getting them all sharp again.

This was the one I worked on tonight.. One of my favorites.


----------



## chrisstef

Hey Dan.

Blaster … http://toolemera.com/Manufacturers%20%26%20Merchants/Mfg.%20jklmn/leonardkennedy.html


----------



## revrok

> Hey guys - anyone here have a spare fence and depth stop for a 78?
> 
> - JADobson


https://www.amazon.com/Kit-15-No-Fence-Screws/dp/B0015QDLE0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1548985076&sr=8-1&keywords=stanley+78+fence

Still make them… I bought mine new


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Dan, I've been doing the same with my Keen Kutters, slowly getting them all cleaned up and ready to use. I'm intending to have those be my main 'user set', and the Siegley's and Stanleys as secondary, or maybe sell off the Stanley's.

Type 11 #3, one of my favorites as well. For what I do, if I could only have 2 bench planes, it would by my #3 and my #5-1/2


----------



## Dcase

Mos- I have a love/hate relationship with my Keen Kutter planes. I have almost the full set of KK bench planes and most of them required a lot of tuning to get them just right. I seem to have lot of issues with the iron adjustments and problems with the way the parts were machined. They are very nice planes though.


----------



## JADobson

> Hey guys - anyone here have a spare fence and depth stop for a 78?
> 
> - JADobson
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Kit-15-No-Fence-Screws/dp/B0015QDLE0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1548985076&sr=8-1&keywords=stanley+78+fence
> 
> Still make them… I bought mine new
> 
> - Tim Royal


Thanks Tim - once you get it over the border it ends up costing 6x what I paid for the plane. I ended up selling my 78 to a fellow who had dropped his. He had a fence but no plane and wanted it more than I did.


----------



## Mosquito

I've not had too many issues with mine Dan, other than getting used to the reverse depth adjuster lol

Unless you went back through all your missed posts on this thread, a couple months ago I experimented with using after market thick irons meant for LN planes (IBC), which were .140" thick, and because the KK series irons were thick tapered irons, the Keen Kutter chip breaker works with those thick irons, and the depth adjuster still reaches. It was a fun experiment, and kind of nice to have that option


----------



## WayneC

Something new on it's way to me. It's been on my list for a long time. I have several Stanley. I'm interested in how it will compare.


----------



## RWE

Mos:

I have been following the discussion on Keen Kutter planes that pops up ever so often. I had assumed that you had a collection of the K series planes, essentially re-branded round sided Bedrocks. Now you are talking about the KK series. If I remember correctly, the KK series are made by Sargent? I recently acquired a K series #4 at an antique flea mall. Got it for $44.00 and it is in great shape.

*So are you Keen on the KK series, the K series or both?* My favorite plane is my #8 (608) Bedrock and I was excited to get the K #4. I would like a K #3 to round out the smoothers. All of this talk about issues on tuning must apply to KK series I would suppose. The "new to me" K #4 is working fine.

I had given some thought to trying to collect the full line of K series Keen Kutters. However, after bidding on several Ebay auctions, they seem to have gotten pricey and popular.


----------



## donwilwol

> This is unrelated, but I m also proud of this dragon head I forged yesterday from 1" steel bar:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bobasaurus
> 
> The dragon is awesome.
> 
> - WayneC


Something else on my list! Excellent execution!


----------



## onoitsmatt

I have a KK3 that is really difficult to fettle as well. It belonged to my grandfather, so I really wanted to love using it, but unfortunately I don't. It just feels a little flimsy to me compared to its Stanley/Baily (not Bedrock) counterparts.


----------



## Mosquito

Huh, that is interesting… I've not had issues getting mine tuned up, unless I'm just lucky with the ones I find lol

RWE, I am talking about the KK series, made by Ohio Tool. The ones from 1906-1912, with the thick tapered irons


----------



## Dcase

My set of KK planes is also the KK series made by Ohio Tool. I do have a K5 which has the bedrock frog design as well.

I like the KK planes made by Ohio Tool due to the thickness and quality of the cutter. There is the argument over thick iron vs thin iron and both sides have great points. My old planes with thinner irons can be sharpened and shave just as well as the thick ones. However I do prefer the thicker iron. I find it easier to grind and hone and I also like the extra weight it adds. I feel the extra weight of the iron helps it push through a little better when needed.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I found an Edwin Hawn No 2 Corrugated smoother today. It looked in fair shape. Certainly good enough to fix up but, I don't know anything about Edwin Hawn planes so I left it on the shelf. Would it be worth buying at around $20? Tote and knob good shape. Only bummer was the knurled knob that tightens the wedge for the blade was buggered a bit. Looked like pliers were used at some point.

Edit: it looks like a Siegley No 3 size metal plane.


----------



## RWE

Ok, I guess I will research the KK series a bit. I see a lot of them on Ebay. I guess you have to focus on whether or not there is a thick iron to know if it is an Ohio Tool model. I believe that all the K series were Stanley made. Is that true about the KK series or were there other manufacturers after Union Tool.


----------



## donwilwol

> I found an Edwin Hawn No 2 Corrugated smoother today. It looked in fair shape. Certainly good enough to fix up but, I don t know anything about Edwin Hawn planes so I left it on the shelf. Would it be worth buying at around $20? Tote and knob good shape. Only bummer was the knurled knob that tightens the wedge for the blade was buggered a bit. Looked like pliers were used at some point.
> 
> Edit: it looks like a Siegley No 3 size metal plane.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Yeah, you need to go get that.


----------



## donwilwol

> Ok, I guess I will research the KK series a bit. I see a lot of them on Ebay. I guess you have to focus on whether or not there is a thick iron to know if it is an Ohio Tool model. I believe that all the K series were Stanley made. Is that true about the KK series or were there other manufacturers after Union Tool.
> 
> - RWE


Sargent made some later keen kutters.


----------



## donwilwol

A very very interesting article. (for me anyhow)

https://eaiainfo.org/2019/02/02/sargent-model-shop-tools-prototype-successor-to-shaws-patent-planes/


----------



## Dcase

Mos- Was just working on my KK 5 1/2 the other day and ran into an issue. While I was lowering the iron it stopped before I could even get the iron to get low enough to take a shaving. After looking it over I found that the chip breaker screw had hit the bottom of the hollow in the frog. This made it impossible for the blade to lower anymore. The only thing I can think of is while grinding the edge of the chip breaker I must have removed enough of the edge to create this issue. The thing is I really only put enough grind in it to make it straight. I guess taking that little bit I took off screwed me. I have never once had that issue with a Stanley plane. Now my only options are to either raise the breaker further away from cutting edge so that I can get it to lower enough or I can try finding another chip breaker that will work. That is just an example of some of the issues I have run into while tuning up my KK planes.

Don- Here you go.. Just re-tuned and sharpened my Sargent 418 (5 1/2 size)


----------



## onoitsmatt

Yeah, my KK 3 has a thin iron, like a Stanley. It's all chattery and weird.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Just found a Stanley type 11, 4 1/2 in fair condition but a little rusty. Not able to tell if the mouth corners are okay yet. I took it apart and put it in some evaporust so in a few hours I should be able to tell if it is any good or not. If not good, at least it has a frog, lever cap, blade and chip breaker along with a good solid tote and knob. I think I made out okay for $12 + tax. : ) Also found an old Stanley 80 with no blade. Much beefier than my other late model one.


----------



## revrok

Threw me on the 418! just checked this page https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/31/sargent-plane-sizes/ ... as I suspected the 418 is the equivalent of a Stanley #6. The 415 is a 5 1/2 equivalent.

Gorgeous plane. (nice restore) I am looking for one of these. I only collect as users (unlike some of you crazies!), but I have a 424 and only need a #3 & a #6 or #5 1/2 equivalent for my collection of bench planes to be perfect. I am looking for Sargents as I really like the variety and I love my 424. I have to admit, Mos, that one of the Keen Kutters would be nifty as well.



> Mos- Was just working on my KK 5 1/2 the other day and ran into an issue. While I was lowering the iron it stopped before I could even get the iron to get low enough to take a shaving. After looking it over I found that the chip breaker screw had hit the bottom of the hollow in the frog. This made it impossible for the blade to lower anymore. The only thing I can think of is while grinding the edge of the chip breaker I must have removed enough of the edge to create this issue. The thing is I really only put enough grind in it to make it straight. I guess taking that little bit I took off screwed me. I have never once had that issue with a Stanley plane. Now my only options are to either raise the breaker further away from cutting edge so that I can get it to lower enough or I can try finding another chip breaker that will work. That is just an example of some of the issues I have run into while tuning up my KK planes.
> 
> Don- Here you go.. Just re-tuned and sharpened my Sargent 418 (5 1/2 size)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Dan


----------



## Oldschoolguy

Get a hold of Hokie. I think he might be interested (he! he!).


----------



## corelz125

Dan still looking for these?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here are pictures of the 4 1/2 that I mentioned yesterday. Still a ways to go on it to make it right. I'm liking what i see so far though. It was really rough on the bottom and both sides. Almost looked like a grinding disc had been used on it. I'm thinking the thing left the factory too soon. It's still going to take some more sanding to fix it. : ( I'll work on the furniture next and see if I can salvage the cutter. It looks full length but has some rough places on the cutting edge so some TLC in order for it..


----------



## OleGrump

Thought I'd throw these little guys into the mix so y'all could have a nice laugh. The first is a little low angle block plane that I got at a yard sale for a dollar:



























It is marked "Stanley" and actually does a nice job. I really like this one though:



























This came in a Boy's Tool Chest that I got at a flea market. It was being sold by the original owner, whose had never bothered with it. He said it was a PITA to try and put everything back in the (wall mountable) chest. It was complete and had many tools which can actually be USED. (including a wood framed turning saw and small brace) After I sharpened the blade and put it in correctly (bevel down in this case) it works great as a little block plane. NO, I can NOT grab the little horn, my hands are too damned big, but I can use it one handed.Thought y'all would get a kick outta these little guys among some of the beautiful and desirable items on this thread.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Fun planes olegrump, thanks for sharing the pictures.
Mike


----------



## BlasterStumps

Is there a preferred method to add spring to a chip breaker? I have one that seems to have zero spring to it when the screw is tightened.


----------



## WayneC

Lever cap?


----------



## HokieKen

I stick them in a vise and just give them a little gentle coaxing when necessary Mike. I covered it in this blog post.


----------



## BlasterStumps

No, it is the chip breaker. 


> Lever cap?
> 
> - WayneC


----------



## WayneC

What Kenny said. I was wondering if you were talking about the spring on the back of the chip breaker.


----------



## HokieKen

Word to the wise Mike: Bend it BEFORE you tune the fit at the edge with the iron (if it's not too late already). It's pretty easy to introduce a little twist when you bend it that may affect the fit.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Ken. I'll give it a try. Think I finally discovered what was making my old 4 1/2 work poorly. Don't know why I didn't discover it earlier. 


> Word to the wise Mike: Bend it BEFORE you tune the fit at the edge with the iron (if it s not too late already). It s pretty easy to introduce a little twist when you bend it that may affect the fit.
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## BlasterStumps

I had success on bending the chip breaker. Looks and work properly now. Thanks again guys.

When I found the new-to-me 4 1/2 the other day, I also dug an old Stanley 80 out of a box of junk tools. I gave the lady $6 for it with no blade. I have a late model 80 but this one I got from her is an oldie. I was taking the clamping bar and thumb screws out of it to put it in a soak of Evaporust and happened to notice that on the clamping bar that it is a sweetheart model. I think it is going to be nice enough to want to get a new blade for it. I saw one on Lee Valley site for something like a little under $14. I have to save my mad money. : )


----------



## HokieKen

My #80 gets a pretty regular workout Mike. I read a tune-up blog somewhere when I bought mine that suggested you induce a little bend in the clamp bar in order to force it to apply pressure all the way across. Worked pretty darned good 

The blades for the #80s are pretty common on Ebay if you want an original. IIRC, St. James Bay also makes a replacement that's thicker than the original.


----------



## WayneC

I think Hock also makes replacement blade for the #80. I have one of his in my 112.


----------



## WayneC

I added a forum post on router planes if it's of interest.

lumberjocks.com/topics/303010


----------



## JayT

Two Guys in a Garage has blades for a #80 for $6.

No idea what shipping would be.


----------



## donwilwol

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/27/haley/


----------



## WayneC

It's a beauty Don.


----------



## corelz125

Winchester scraper


----------



## DLK

I like that Haley, Don.


----------



## WayneC

> Winchester scraper
> 
> - corelz125


Beautiful


----------



## HokieKen

Spring cleaning and shop purge time fellas. Some extra plane parts up for grabs. Some Stanley some no-name. Take one or take all. They only cost you shipping. PM me if you want something. Anything unclaimed in the next couple of days goes to the Habitat Store.


----------



## DLK

If no one else wants them I'd take the irons.


----------



## HokieKen

Don gets the irons. That leaves some lever caps.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I refinished the wood on "Cinderella" my new-to-me 4 1/2. I also fixed the blade and sharpened it. Poor old thing, someone took a disc grinder to the sole and both sides, and even managed to hit the blade with it. I'm out of sandpaper so the finally sanding on the bottom and sides will have to come at a later date.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

This is a total stab, but anyone have a 2 3/8 iron collecting dust? My No. 4 1/2 DE needs some love, and before I pursue other options….


----------



## BlasterStumps

Sorry Smitty, I came up empty. All I have that are not in a plane is a tapered blade for a No 4 size and one lone block plane size. No much here. I would like to see the DE when you get it going. Was it by Stanley or ?


----------



## JayT

Smitty, I'll check when I get home.


----------



## HokieKen

Sorry Smitty nothing here either.


----------



## WayneC

I might. Just not sure where at the moment….


----------



## waho6o9

If a Record blade works just pay shipping.


----------



## HokieKen

Wahoo with the save! ;-p


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Deal! Record it is! Thanks!!!


----------



## waho6o9

You're welcome Smitty, should be there Monday via UPS


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Awesome!! Thanks again!!! Pics will appear that match DE to Record.


----------



## waho6o9

Awesome I hope it works out for you


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The Receiving Patient.










DE cutter short










And rounded, making the edge very thin.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Looks like a worthy recipient for the blade transplant.


----------



## HokieKen

As long as we're swapping stuff around, I'll throw this out there…

I have a Record 07 jointer. It's in excellent shape and works beautifully. Even has a Clifton 2-piece cap iron. But it's the only blue plane in a till full of black and red Millers Falls. So, I've been looking to buy a MF 22 then was just gonna sell this Record on Ebay. But, if any of you guys have a nice MF jointer you would want to swap for a Record jointer, I'd be willing to go that way. I do want a MF that's old enough to have the brass hardware but beyond that, as long as it's in good shape, I'm game. I do want to keep my iron because it's a Hock and I like it so you can keep yours. Like I said, I will let the Clifton cap iron go with it though. Truthfully, I find it to be more trouble than it's worth…


----------



## WayneC

Strange thing is I don't think I have a single millers falls bench plane. I don't think one has ever followed me home.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

My only MF planes are rebranded as Craftsman planes. Had a jack once, another LJ has it now / found a loving home


----------



## WayneC

My bench plane set is Stanley but Don has me thinking about checking out a Shaw's patent Sargent. If only I knew of a good book… LOL


----------



## BlasterStumps

My MF 22 was found in the bottom drawer of a tool cabinet by Grandpa's family when they were clearing out his workshop after he was gone. The plane was found in it's original box and had never been used. Apparently he had purchased several Millers Falls planes at the time around 1967 and just stuck the 22 in the drawer where it stayed. The family sold the planes to a fellow that had an ebay store. I bought it from him.

I keep it in the top of my tool cabinet, hidden away on the lower shelf.


----------



## JayT

I've only had a few Millers Falls, none of which are still in my possession. The #10 and the Buck Rogers were both sold to other LJ's. (The Buck almost started a riot on the original HPOYD thread) The 900B was gifted to someone who had never used a plane, so gave them a starting point.

Only antique metal plane I would dearly love to find is a V&B 906. The 904's and 905's can be found semi-occasionally, even a 907, but the 906 is an elusive beast.


----------



## woodcox

Has the LN #2 always been available in an iron body along with bronze?


----------



## WayneC

I don't think I've ever seen a V&B 906.

Thank you Don….


----------



## JayT

Wayne, I've seen one or two pop up on ebay. The last one was two or three years ago, before I knew I wanted one.

I would like to have a user set of 900 series V&B and love the #6 size for jointing and panel work. I can be patient and will keep looking, but if someone else runs across one, I'd like to know.


----------



## Johnny7

*Jay T*

Thoughts concerning scarcity/rareness of 903 V&B?


----------



## 33706

> This is a total stab, but anyone have a 2 3/8 iron collecting dust? My No. 4 1/2 DE needs some love, and before I pursue other options….
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Smitty,
I have a D-E 2 3/8" iron, not the greatest in the world but 7 3/16 long. It's in a #31 trannie, so the chipper would not work in your iron plane, but I'm sure the iron would slide right in. It's stamped D-E.

Sorry for being so late to the party; but I did check my 'junkyard' right away when you posted it. It just didn't occur to me that I might have one on the hoof! I'll PM ya.


----------



## JayT

> *Jay T*
> 
> Thoughts concerning scarcity/rareness of 903 V&B?
> 
> - Johnny7


I would call them uncommon, but not rare. I've seen 903's sell on ebay quite a few times in the past. Not as common as the 905 & 904 obviously, but enough are out there that you can find them.


----------



## corelz125

Anybody ever make a new sole for a scraper plane? I have a Sargent 43 missing the sole plate.


----------



## HokieKen

> Anybody ever make a new sole for a scraper plane? I have a Sargent 43 missing the sole plate.
> 
> - corelz125


I assume you're talking about a wooden sole? I haven't but it seems straightforward enough. Anything particular you are wondering about?


----------



## corelz125

Yes Kenny the wood sole plate for a Sargent 43 scraper. I figure I can do it with a chisel but if there is a faster way to remove most of the material.


----------



## HokieKen

Oh, for the slot. Gotcha. If it were me, I'd probably hog the bulk out with the drill press, then chisels and fine-tune it with rasps if needed.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Picked up the Edwin Hahn No 2 Corrugated smoother. 
Here are a couple pics of it:




































I am not sure how it compares to other EH planes like it, I haven't been able to find any other No 2 planes online. It is 9-1/2×2-3/8. If you look just behind the knob, it shows the No 2. On the reverse of the lever cap, it has Edwin Hahn and Wilkes-Barre, PA which is also on top of blade. Looks like it would clean up okay. No cracks that I can see. Blade would take a little tlc to make sharp again.


----------



## WayneC

Nice find.


----------



## corelz125

Yep I was thinking about that. I have to figure out a jig to get the right angle


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Wayne. Not sure what I should do with it. The question is, do I rehab it or just leave as is? I'm thinking it would clean up nice. Decisions, decisions. : )


> Nice find.
> 
> - WayneC


----------



## tshiker

Speaking of Wilkes-Barre…I got this a few years ago.














































It's a type 1 Siegley iron smoother with an adjustable mouth.


----------



## Mosquito

The Sielgey and Hahn planes make me happy


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have a later Siegley but it has the slot in the blade like the Hahn that I showed pictures of. Your's looks even older than the Hahn. 
Not sure what I am going to do with the Hahn. I don't suppose it is very rare. Maybe just a little hard to find. Might make a fun rehab. I need a display case : )


----------



## donwilwol

> Speaking of Wilkes-Barre…I got this a few years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It s a type 1 Siegley iron smoother with an adjustable mouth.
> 
> - tshiker


HOLY CRAP! THAT'S COOL!


----------



## donwilwol

Blaster, I sent you a PM. I think that's a pretty rare plane.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, the Hahn's are rare, whether or not they're scarce I don't know. They didn't make a ton of them, they just aren't necessarilly as well known/collected I don't think.

My set of Siegley's are post-stanley buy-out, but before they got away from the Siegley style:










Also, non-adjusable mouth, and chip breaker be damned lol (This one's since Dan's back around ;-) )


----------



## donwilwol

The t-1 Siegley is rare.

Hahn's are harder to find but not really rare but the #2 is probably one of the harder ones. A Hahn collector (including me) would like that #2.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I like the display case Mos. I need to come up with something like that.


----------



## Mosquito

it actually came about, similar to one of Smitty's cabinets, because I had cut some moulding with a #55 that I ended up not using on another project, and wanted to put on something lol


----------



## WayneC

I think the Siegley and Hahn are even more uncommon here in CA. I don't remember seeing either in the wild.


----------



## woodcox

Thank you for the nod, Don. I took long enough to look for one.


----------



## WayneC

Wow. Did you see that Lee Valley is taking over Bridge City Tools. I want one of their chop stick planes.


----------



## HokieKen

Really Wayne? That's good news! I thought they were purchased a couple of years ago by some Chinese company. I see now that that company was just a licensed manufacturer.


----------



## WayneC

I did buy the chopstick plane. I have an autistic son who loves eating with chop sticks. Going to teach him to make them.


----------



## HokieKen

That's really cool Wayne! I always wondered who in the heck was buying that thing. That's probably the best use for it I could think of though


----------



## HokieKen

The only Bridge City tool I've been able to get past the budget comittee is a saddle square. It was a gift ;-)


----------



## WayneC

Looks like they may have been sold to a china company and LV is reselling the products.


----------



## donwilwol

I often will say, "that's a cool find" when somebody post a hand plane that I wish I had found, but when you find a plane patented in 1873, and datamp says "Manufacturer: Not known to have been produced" and it didn't make Rogers books, then "that's a cool find" probably doesn't cover it. If it's in Rogers book and I missed it, or any other book, let us know.

https://timetestedtools.forumchitchat.com/post/huber-flickinger-patent-plane-10046858


----------



## BlasterStumps

Wow Don, that's a find for sure. I can only imagine how heavy that thing is for it's size.


----------



## WayneC

Came in the mail today.


----------



## Dcase

Nice stuff!

Beautiful 4 1/2 Type 11

Love the Siegley planes. I have only ever had one and I sold it  Wish I would have kept it

That LN skewed plane looks very fine

Here are the planes I have picked up over the past two weeks. I think the "Collector" bug has really bit me this time. I actually bought a #11.. The Stanley Gauge 4 really interest me. I am going to spend a good amount of time trying to figure that one all out.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Welcome to the #11 Club, Dan!


----------



## WayneC

Very nice group Dan.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'm working on the Hahn No 2. I took the "paint" off the body, which wasn't much for paint. More like roofing tar. But anyway, I am getting it ready to repaint. I took a picture of the sole of the plane to show how the impurities in the casting metal left some holes. I've not seen that before on a metal plane. Sort of reminds me of flight holes in wooden planes : ) Another interesting thing on this plane is the thick blade compared to a Stanley. I don't want to say much thicker but definitely noticeably thicker. I couldn't see the "E HAHN" in the casting on each side of the boss for the tote until I had removed the paint. Siegley did something similar there. Anyway, just some progress pics:


----------



## Mosquito

I've actually had similar casting defects on Stanley planes I've owned before. Interesting to see that thing all stripped down


----------



## Dcase

Smitty, Can I even find use for the #11? I only bought it for collector reasons. In fact that is the very first plane I have ever bought purely based on collection reasons. If it has use I will sharpen and tune it up.

MasterBlaster- It has been a long time since I have stripped a plane down to bare metal like that. What do you use as your method to re-paint? For a while I would re-paint any plane that was missing big chips of jappaning. I now stay away from re-painting. I have no problems with it.. I just think I did my fair share…. Looking forward to see how it turns out.

Meant to post this pic a while back.. A little pic of my trans family. I really thought I had them all but it appears I am missing at least 3 (not including Liberty Bell). I could have swore I had them but I think I still need #28, #29 and #30.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I just use an engine block black spray paint. The old "paint" was coming off just by rubbing it lightly so I figure either leave it bare metal or repaint. I've decided to spray it. It might be a couple days before I do it though 'cause of the cold weather. Need a little sunny and warm mostly to improve my attitude and; it should help the paint dry too : )

Now I know why I don't have any transitional planes, you got them all : ) BTW, there is an anniversary commemorative edition. Do you have it?


----------



## bandit571

#28 and #29…..also have the #31….and an Ohio 035, and a sargent #3416…

The #29 had lost a lot off the front porch…..been using the remainder as a parts source….keeping the #28 in working order…


----------



## 33706

Nice collection of Transitionals, both Dan's and Bandit's!


----------



## DLK

Nice transitionals!


----------



## corelz125

Dan that's a Bailey compass plane?


----------



## Just_Iain

> Looks like they may have been sold to a china company and LV is reselling the products.
> 
> - WayneC


From the Lee Valley website:

"Bridge City Tool Works

Founded in 1983 by designer and craftsman John Economaki, Bridge City Tools has long been known for its often unique and always aspirational tools.

From marking and measuring tools to saws and planes, Bridge City has designed and produced an average of five to six new tools per year over the past 35 years.

In early 2018, faced with the retirement of several key staff, Economaki made the decision to step down and find a new principal for the business. As Harvey Industries (based in China) was already a licensed manufacturer and agent for Bridge City Tools, the sale was a natural fit.

Harvey Industries has manufactured high-quality OEM power tools for more than 18 years, and is committed to the preservation and furtherance of the Bridge City legacy. Economaki will continue to be involved in the quality control and design work of the line for at least the next two years."


----------



## Just_Iain

I'm going to avoid the Bridge City Tools Section at Lee Valley. Too dangerous to even consider handling any of their tools!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dan, if nothing else it's low angle. I tried it as a smoother, it wasn't that bad at all. For larger work it might be auite good if properly sharpened and tuned.


----------



## WayneC

Iain,

I figured it out after I posted. I guess I was hoping Veritas would keep the tradition alive. Hard to say what the company will look like in 5 years. That said, I'm looking forward to getting the chopstick plane. It shipped yesterday. Lee Valley items always seem to take for ever to get her compared to Amazon.

The Bridge City catalog that Lee Valley sent had a lot of cool things in it. Very dangerous.


----------



## woodcox

Eww. The cap screw and hole are buggered. Machine marks for the iron bed need a little work. Also, are some castings blank without the 206 present?









I'm assuming this guy is threaded for replacement? The hole in the cap may be salvageable.


----------



## 33706

*All right, who snagged that Stanley #32 Transitional on eBay this past weekend?*


----------



## Mosquito

Dan if I knew you needed a Bailey compus plane, I would have hooked you up


----------



## woodcox

Hey Almost fits the description now of "100% functional". 









Oh my, pk!


----------



## Dcase

Poopiecat and Bandit are both still here???? Oh man.. I love this thread..

Please tell me TheDude is still here???? If he is still around I am dead… this is real OG stuff right here…

Mos- I don't need a bailey compus plane… I have no use at all for it.. But if I have one I can say I have a #13, #120 or #113… It is a sickness


----------



## bandit571

The Dude( Lance) stopped by over the holidays…..one post, and was gone again..


----------



## TedT2

I love this thread although I am not much of a contributor. I just finished reading the entire epic thread and have read all of this one. I learned an incredible amount by doing so. Some day I will get all my plane purchases together and get some pictures…can't get enough of them though….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Holy Crap, Ted! That's a TON of reading, hats off to you!
.
.
.
New Subject: Record Meets Diamond Edge!

Chipbreakers identical. And I was more than a bit surprised at that, given they were manufactured 60 years and two continents apart from each other.










Someone hit the top of the Record cutter with a hammer. Repeatedly. Easy access to a 2 3/8" chisel, maybe?










Thanks Waho for helping my #4 1/2 DE along his path of renovation. That said, LJs are incredibly generous… PK also found a suitable cutter for my DE and it's on the way from Canada! So I'll be going from 'no good cutters' to having a spare sharpened up and ready to go in the tool chest. Might even swap one into my T13 SW #4 1/2 and save that SW cutter some wear and tear… I'm indebted to each of you, thanks again! I'm also standing by to pay it forward when the opportunity strikes. Happy Shavings!


----------



## Mosquito

Dang Ted, I didn't know people could still get through all of this thread  I remember doing that, but it was 9 years ago (Holy crap!) so it wasn't as bad lol

Shows that they must have had the design pretty well figured out pretty eary for those chip breakers lol Good to see the 4-1/2 back in the land of the living


----------



## TedT2

It took a while for sure…almost disappointing to finish though…I really enjoyed it…


----------



## HokieKen

> It took a while for sure…almost disappointing to finish though…I really enjoyed it…
> 
> - TedT2


Oh, there are threads for Workbenches, Saws, Miter Boxes and Combination Planes too Ted. Those will hold you for another couple years ;-)


----------



## TedT2

> It took a while for sure…almost disappointing to finish though…I really enjoyed it…
> 
> - TedT2
> 
> I have read the miter box thread and saw thread as well…maybe I have too much time…lol
> 
> Oh, there are threads for Workbenches, Saws, Miter Boxes and Combination Planes too Ted. Those will hold you for another couple years ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## woodcox

My first LN plane, iron bodied #2. I wanted to replace my Stanley #2 with a bedrock style the same size because I am always afraid to damage it. A little bit of flex can be felt in the body while planing. This LN was listed in Tom's Toolbox and didn't specify why a few #2s were cast in iron but I got the last one. 









Time to sell the Stanley I think.


----------



## WayneC

Congrats on the LN. Its a handsome plane. Why would you sell your old one? I tend to hold on to the rarer planes as they hold their value. As for why fewer iron than Bronze, I think the bronze are just more popular. I have both the #1 and #2 in bronze. They were father's day gifts from my kids.


----------



## bandit571

Random plane pictures?









Just a Junior Jack No. 11









Busy day, today…


----------



## BenDupre

> That said, LJs are incredibly generous…
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


+1


----------



## corelz125

All the talk of the wilkes-barre planes I needed one.


----------



## Dcase

Got these in the mail today

New Model Stanley SW #4 and Stanley A4…..HUGE weight difference between the two lol










I bought the new Stanley SW used off Ebay. I took a look at the bevel and although it is sharp enough to take some shavings it is nowhere near as sharp as a smoothing plane should be. The plane probably did not work out so well for them due to the sharpening of the iron. Willing to bet that is why they put it on ebay. I have not played with it yet but it feels like a solid plane. I have the SW Low Angle Jack and have been happy with it.


----------



## Bigmikeyg

For all you hand plane junkies….. I have a Stanley 10 1/4 and I'm entertaining offers. It's missing the tote. But other than that it's All there and in excellent condition… Also considering restoring it, so if you or someone you know has an original tote that won't break my bank, please let me know.


----------



## BlasterStumps

corelz125, that is an impressive jointer. Is there more info you can share on it?


----------



## corelz125

From what I have read so far it's a Siegley made before Stanley took them over. I have to do more searching and see what else I can find.


----------



## Bigmikeyg




----------



## WayneC

Interesting look at the 10 1/4. I had entertained getting a LN at one time. Looks like making a replacement tote and hardware would be tough.


----------



## WayneC

I got a Rapier 043 in the mail yesterday….










With some of my others that are similar…


----------



## Mosquito

so THAT'S why I can't get a mini plow for a decent price


----------



## Dcase

10 1/4 is it a custom tote or will other models fit it??

Wayne- nice collection of plows there…

Today I got my very FIRST Stanley plane in it's original box… A common and cheap Stanley #110 block plane but still really neat to have it almost unused and in the original box… I am falling deeper and deeper down the collector rabbit hole.

On the way I have.. A Stanley #94 Shoulder plane, Stanley #105 metal bodied Liberty Bell and a KK #7 which will pretty much give me a complete set of KK planes.

Next on my list is the Stanley Dovetail plane.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Looks like a nice 10 1/4. Too bad the tote has gone missing.

I've not tried to make a tote like that. Would be interesting.

I've got one of those carriage maker planes. It's older and the top of the frog is busted off so no lateral adjuster. Actually I kind of prefer it that way. I can tap, tap, tap and get it just right. : )


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, Dan! 94 needed, 105 needed! I'm playing catchup now!


----------



## BlasterStumps

I am wanting to make the wood for the Hahn plane look good again. If you look at the pictures I posted, you can see that it is dry, faded and just doesn't look good. I cleaned it with some mineral spirits but now I want to add some darker richer color and then varnish. I've been on some sites online where people have shown pictures of Siegley planes that they have made look really nice. I'd like to do same but don't know what type of wood was used on this plane and what stain would give it some richness in color. Any ideas?

Mike


----------



## WayneC

> so THAT S why I can t get a mini plow for a decent price
> 
> - Mosquito


Kinda like 45s…. lol


----------



## donwilwol

> I am wanting to make the wood for the Hahn plane look good again. If you look at the pictures I posted, you can see that it is dry, faded and just doesn t look good. I cleaned it with some mineral spirits but now I want to add some darker richer color and then varnish. I ve been on some sites online where people have shown pictures of Siegley planes that they have made look really nice. I d like to do same but don t know what type of wood was used on this plane and what stain would give it some richness in color. Any ideas?
> 
> Mike
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Soak it in BLO for a week. Wipe it down as dry as a cloth can get it. Let it dry for a week and see where you are.


----------



## 33706

> so THAT S why I can t get a mini plow for a decent price
> 
> - Mosquito
> 
> Kinda like 45s…. lol
> 
> - WayneC


*Good one, Wayne!*


----------



## corelz125

Dan a complete stanley 444 sold the other day for about $300


----------



## BlasterStumps

Well here's the E Hahn No 2 after some fix'n up. Sometime when I can, I will dig out the Siegley and take a picture of them together.


----------



## BlasterStumps

the before shot:


----------



## corelz125

Nice job Mike. What did you do for the tote?


----------



## BlasterStumps

It was quite in need of some sprucing up so I first washed both wood pieces with mineral spirits, then went over them with a scotchbrite pad to make sure the old finish, if there was any, was gone. This evening, after much deliberation, I decided to sand the bottom of the tote and try the Minwax Brazilian Rosewood gel stain on it. I liked it. It was just what I was wanting so I applied it to both pieces. I had been hesitant to use that stain because it will turn some wood red or purple.


----------



## donwilwol

nice job on the Hahn No 2.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Don and corelz125, I appreciate the comments.


----------



## WayneC

> Dan a complete stanley 444 sold the other day for about $300
> 
> - corelz125


I've not seen a complete one under $600 in a while. I would probably be in at $300.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

First tried on Waho's excellent Record cutter and it was a great fit. Now the DE cutter from PK!










Now to hone and shape the edges and put them to work! Thanks again guys, I'm humbled…


----------



## waho6o9

Good news Smitty, glad to help.


----------



## corelz125

I wouldn't of guessed you stained them but came out nice. That 444 didnt have a box and I think a cutter or 2 were missing but all the important pieces were there. I was surprised it went that low.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I can honestly report that all the parts to a No. 444 are important if using it is an objective.


----------



## 33706

> Good news Smitty, glad to help.
> 
> - waho6o9


Same here, Smitty!


----------



## corelz125

The cutters and spurs st james bay has. Smitty do you know if anybody makes the spur blocks?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> The cutters and spurs st james bay has. Smitty do you know if anybody makes the spur blocks?
> 
> - corelz125


Spur blocks are precision milled. No, I don't recall St. James or anyone else offering them. Patrick does on occasion, about $75 per if I recall.


----------



## corelz125

Smitty you think they could be made on a cnc in a metal fab shop?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Then machined for spur insets, threaded in three spots. I guess so, but have no idea if it's practical.


----------



## WayneC

You would probably need an original part to use as a model. Definitely good advise to inspect the plane carefully for all it's parts before buying.


----------



## corelz125

Those spur blocks seem to be few and far between. So your thinking those can't be made at the timetestedtools forge? =)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> You would probably need an original part to use as a model. Definitely good advise to inspect the plane carefully for all it s parts before buying.
> 
> - WayneC





> Those spur blocks seem to be few and far between. So your thinking those can t be made at the timetestedtools forge? =)
> 
> - corelz125


Caveat emptor! If the price is too good to be true, RE: the No. 444, then there's a reason behind it that's up to you to figure out!


----------



## corelz125

I already gathered most of one together I'm missing 1 spur block and the square fence.


----------



## HokieKen

Man, it makes my head hurt just trying to figure out how that 444 works!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

There are videos for that, Kenny.


----------



## DanKrager

It's a pretty slick plane IMHO. There may be other equally good ways to cut male and female dovetails, but once understood, well fettled, and muscle memory trained, these planes make very quick work of it.










This winerack is an an insert into an adjustable shelf cabinet. The partitions slanting to the left (downwards) hold female dovetail stopped dadoes and the partitions slanting to the right (downward) are short pieces holding male dovetails stopped at both ends. Extreme measures were taken to ensure accuracy. When dry assembled I am convinced it could be used as a jack stand for a small truck!










EDIT: I forgot to mention that the ends of pieces cut at 45° also have tails cut. Those tiny pieces at the ends? Yup, both ends.

DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You did great work on that, Dan!


----------



## WayneC

Awesome Dan.

Smitty, is there a PDF manual for the 444 available?


----------



## WayneC

Google is my friend….

Stanley 444


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I was just going to type Stan Faulin.


----------



## WayneC

I added it to dropbox so I will have it on my phone in the unlikely event I come across one in the wild. That way I can check for missing parts.


----------



## corelz125

smitty after watching your video i just had to get one.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> smitty after watching your video i just had to get one.
> 
> - corelz125


Sorry 'bout that…


----------



## corelz125

Dan you have any pics of the assembly of the wine rack? Haha it was a good video smitty you made it look like fun using it.


----------



## DanKrager

No assembly pictures, Corelz. Well, not any more. The basic procedure was to lay out a full scale pattern of the wine rack including the dovetails. When the plane was set for the male tales and the samples were satisfactory I cut the partition pieces slightly oversize and hand planed each one to precisely fit the very sharp pencil lines on the pattern. The female dadoes were cut with a router. The outside frame was assembled and glued up with some x braces on the front to keep it square. Then each piece was meticulously fitted. Even with all that care, there were deviations I knew about but customers wouldn't see. I did it for the challenge. I quoted a price I ddin't think he would buy, but he did. So he got his money's worth.

DanK


----------



## corelz125

Nicely done.


----------



## HokieKen

That's awesome work Dan. Probably as nice of a wine rack as I've seen.

Did Smitty link a video that I missed?


----------



## WayneC

Chopstick plane is here. I need to fiddle with it a bit to take a lighter cut but it works….


----------



## HokieKen

Too cool Wayne!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> That's awesome work Dan. Probably as nice of a wine rack as I've seen.
> 
> Did Smitty link a video that I missed?
> 
> - HokieKen


The second 444 blog post I did included a video; I've done a couple on that plane.


----------



## HokieKen

Just had a read Smitty. Very interesting plane. Sure am glad I have a router though…


----------



## Mosquito

The #444 is still on my long eventual list… 
There's the eventual list, and the wish list, separate lol


----------



## WayneC

The use of specialty planes in this video is amazing. Also, there are a few blacksmith made tools that are interesting.


----------



## corelz125

Kenny anybody can do it with a router. Smitty what is the difference between each spur block? Trying to figure out which one im missing.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Smitty what is the difference between each spur block? Trying to figure out which one im missing.
> 
> - corelz125


There are three groove cutters. Narrowest is used w/ no spur block, and width of that cutter equals the width of the plane's main body. Middle cutter and 'thinnest' spur block equal when in the plane. Width of widest groove cutter equals 'thickest' spur block plus main body when in the plane.


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny anybody can do it with a router. ...
> 
> - corelz125


Which puts it right in my wheelhouse ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

> The #444 is still on my long eventual list…
> There s the eventual list, and the wish list, separate lol
> 
> - Mosquito


I like this gentlemen's style of thinking, I now have two want lists!


----------



## WayneC

Only two?


----------



## theoldfart

Wayne, I don't talk about the other three


----------



## WayneC

Are you back in California?


----------



## bobasaurus

Wayne, that chopstick jig/plane is really cool. When you first posted about it, I became interested and designed a simple one to make from plywood (since I'm too cheap to buy the nice bridge city one). It's almost done, maybe tonight I'll finish it up. Here I'm gluing on the stops:










I still need to modify a spare block plane to have rails.


----------



## HokieKen

I eat Sushi with chopsticks. They just piss me off with anything else ;-) So I don't use them much. I'd definitely be interested in some details of your design though Allen. Could be a great quick gift maker.


----------



## DLK

> The use of specialty planes in this video is amazing. Also, there are a few blacksmith made tools that are interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - WayneC


Nice video. Motivates one to have an interest in making their own specialty planes.


----------



## bobasaurus

Ken, if the design actually ends up working I'll post it here for you. Mine is similar to this:

https://www.instructables.com/id/Customized-Chopstick-Maker/

but laid out flat and without guiding rails for the plane. There will still be rails on the side of the plane to keep from hitting the plywood, but I'll be able to freely control its movement and skew angle.


----------



## WayneC

Allen, I saw someone using a similar fixture in a video. Looks like there are lots of ways to do this. In the video I saw they had a sled for a #4.

I need to work out a blank cutting approach and see if I can work out an inexpensive source of chop stick bags. I'm thinking this is something for my autistic son to make and gift or possibly sell.


----------



## theoldfart

Wayne, just boarded the plane, be in Sacramento a little after five.


----------



## woodcox

Nice Wayne.


----------



## WayneC

Safe travels.


----------



## bandit571

Letting some glue and screws cure together…









"Chester Drawers" build….


----------



## corelz125

I see what you are talking about Smitty with the block spur with the main body being the same width as the cutter. I have the 4 spur block . Now to find the 7.


----------



## HokieKen

> Ken, if the design actually ends up working I ll post it here for you. Mine is similar to this:
> 
> https://www.instructables.com/id/Customized-Chopstick-Maker/
> 
> but laid out flat and without guiding rails for the plane. There will still be rails on the side of the plane to keep from hitting the plywood, but I ll be able to freely control its movement and skew angle.
> 
> - bobasaurus


Well, when you put it like that, it's a pretty simple little rig! I definitely like the flat layout you went with better. The one in the instructable looks kinda awkward. Good call on the rails on the plane too.


----------



## HokieKen

> Nice Wayne.
> 
> - woodcox


Sorry Kev :-( Welcome back to the mainland though! How was the Kona coffee?


----------



## WayneC

And the macadamia nuts?


----------



## BlasterStumps

I like the progress pictures Bandit. Gives me inspiration and keeps my interest up just seeing what others are doing. Thanks for sharing them. 
Mike


----------



## bobasaurus

> Allen, I saw someone using a similar fixture in a video. Looks like there are lots of ways to do this. In the video I saw they had a sled for a #4.
> 
> I need to work out a blank cutting approach and see if I can work out an inexpensive source of chop stick bags. I m thinking this is something for my autistic son to make and gift or possibly sell.
> 
> - WayneC


For making blanks, I've been taking scrap boards and roughly squaring two sides with planes. I then setup the bandsaw to make ~5/16" slices and cut the scrap pieces into long thin rectangular cross-section sticks. Finally, I cut them to the length that matches my jig (about 245 mm) on the chop saw.


----------



## WayneC

I was thinking I would get some 4/4 stock and cut them on the table saw. This jig takes 7mm x 7mm blanks. I'll have to double check the length. It's either 210 or 240 if I remember correctly. The trick was really to figure out how to minimize waste. For the setup I got a piece of 7mm square brass key stock. I was planning to use this as a setup guide.


----------



## bobasaurus

> I was thinking I would get some 4/4 stock and cut them on the table saw. This jig takes 7mm x 7mm blanks. I ll have to double check the length. It s either 210 or 240 if I remember correctly. The trick was really to figure out how to minimize waste. For the setup I got a piece of 7mm square brass key stock. I was planning to use this as a setup guide.
> 
> - WayneC


Might be able to use an ultra thin kerf blade in the table saw, or try a bandsaw like I'm doing (though the cuts are much rougher). Do you have a thin rip jig? I think it would work better and reduce the chance of kickback. I have this rockler one and it works okay:

https://www.rockler.com/thin-rip-tablesaw-jig


----------



## bigblockyeti

Though it's not made for the table saw, I use this blade for ultra thin kerfs: Freud D0760X Diablo Ultra Finish Saw Blade ATB 7-1/4-Inch by 60t 5/8-Inch Arbor

The cut quality is excellent but you have to feed it very slowly compared to a proper 10" blade or the finish of the cut will suffer. I use it primarily when cutting a planed blank into pieces for an end grain cutting board where there's a kerf lost every ~1.5" and occasionally the wood is expensive enough I'd rather not be turning it into dust.


----------



## Mosquito

Some scrap shelving and a few brackets turned in to some Stanley display shelves, though not the best shelving… May replace it at some point, but I think the priority is to finish cleaning up the planes first


----------



## onoitsmatt

New booth at one of the antique malls I try to get to every month or so.










Good stuff here. Top shelf on left are Stanley 98 and 99 left and right rabbet planes. 2nd from the right is the first Stanley No 1 I've seen in the wild. There's the side by side Stanley 7 and 8 and a pair of Millers Falls spokevshaves.

All were priced high, though I was still tempted by the cigar shave ($75).

For the curious, the number 1 was $975.

Fun to see them.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Brass Armadillo?


----------



## onoitsmatt

No, this was at a place on Broadway in west Mesa/Tempe area (just east of the 101 on Broadway) called "Call it New, Call it Antique". There's a couple of good tool booths there. This booth wasn't there a few weeks ago when I was in. Here's a closer view of the #1 for those interested.


----------



## corelz125

Mos that's your siegely collection in the case? I would have those top ones tethered to the wall unless there's a sofa under there. I get a little paranoid about planes falling.


----------



## Mosquito

haha, that thought did cross my mind… or a lip on the front edge. Maybe just drawer liner underneath will do. 
Yes, my Sigley's are in the display case


----------



## WayneC

> I was thinking I would get some 4/4 stock and cut them on the table saw. This jig takes 7mm x 7mm blanks. I ll have to double check the length. It s either 210 or 240 if I remember correctly. The trick was really to figure out how to minimize waste. For the setup I got a piece of 7mm square brass key stock. I was planning to use this as a setup guide.
> 
> - WayneC
> 
> Might be able to use an ultra thin kerf blade in the table saw, or try a bandsaw like I m doing (though the cuts are much rougher). Do you have a thin rip jig? I think it would work better and reduce the chance of kickback. I have this rockler one and it works okay:
> 
> https://www.rockler.com/thin-rip-tablesaw-jig
> 
> - bobasaurus


I don't have a thin kerf blade, this would probably help a lot to save material. I don't have a thin stock guide. It's also a pretty good idea. There are both Rockler and Woodcraft stores in town.



> Though it s not made for the table saw, I use this blade for ultra thin kerfs: Freud D0760X Diablo Ultra Finish Saw Blade ATB 7-1/4-Inch by 60t 5/8-Inch Arbor
> 
> The cut quality is excellent but you have to feed it very slowly compared to a proper 10" blade or the finish of the cut will suffer. I use it primarily when cutting a planed blank into pieces for an end grain cutting board where there s a kerf lost every ~1.5" and occasionally the wood is expensive enough I d rather not be turning it into dust.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


Thanks. I'll take a look at it.


----------



## corelz125

Are the Siegley's pre Stanley?


----------



## Mosquito

Mine are not, they're one of the first types made after Stanley bought them, but before they switched them to use the more Bailey-esque castings


----------



## bobasaurus

I finished my chopstick jig yesterday, it works great. I go from left to right in sequence:










The left-most slot is for turning rough bandsaw-cut blanks into perfect 7×7mm x-section sticks. The next slot establishes the taper on two adjacent sides. The third slot sets the taper on the other two sides. The fourth slot is for creating the octagonal facets. The last slot makes a pyramid shape on the large ends using a flush cut saw.

The plane has two maple rails setting it 2 mm off the surface of the plywood:



















Two finished chopsticks next to two blanks:


----------



## HokieKen

Slick Allen! Best DIY version I've seen. I have no real need for chopsticks but for some reason, I really want one of these…


----------



## WayneC

This is really nice. You should post it as a project for more people to see.


----------



## 33706

*Okay… how 'bout this? A Stanley "Schade Patent" #7!!!!
'Schade' was Stanley's answer to the Sargent Shaw Patent planes.*




























My wife found this one, we were traveling around Vancouver island. In Ladysmith, BC, there was a shop on the main drag, but we were on a bee-line to 'Cathedral Grove' to see the tallest trees in BC. On our way back, we stopped in, and I have never seen so many planes in one place in my life!! (Er, except for my own hoard, LOL) There must have been 250 on display for sale! This plane was the best one on hand, I had to have it!!
Info is sketchy so far, but I am thrilled to have this!

The "Schade" patent is nearly the same as the Shaw patent, with the questionable advantage of not having to spend that 5 seconds popping off the cap and cutter to adjust the frog. But…it's rare, and omg it's a #7!! There is one Pat date behind the frog, seen to be 07/03/1900 and the cutter has the common 'Stanley xx/xx/92 date.

I knew this would happen…I insisted on going light on luggage, and, oh well it might not have made it thru security. A UPS store in Victoria wrapped it with great care and it just arrived. I'm pleased with their diligence!

Hope you like!! ...the whole works totaled less than $200 CDN. That's maybe $145 (est.) USD$


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Definitely not heard of, or seen, that one before! Congrats, PK!


----------



## 33706

Ty, Smitty! Yeah, I gotta hit the books on this one!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Wow, nice find! Congratulations.


----------



## WayneC

Wow. I have not seen one before.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> *Okay… how bout this? A Stanley "Schade Patent" #7!!!!
> Schade was Stanley s answer to the Sargent Shaw Patent planes.*
> - poopiekat


And I thought attempting to collect a user set of #3-8 Bedrock planes was being obsessive?
Am humbled by your enthusiasm, and knowledge of Stanley planes. 
Please carry on. I appreciate the education!


----------



## WayneC

> And I thought attempting to collect a user set of #3-8 Bedrock planes was being obsessive?
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


Once the 603-608 are in the till, the 602 and any missing fractional will follow.


----------



## donwilwol

I didn't even know they existed PK. Nice find. So they didn't think the bedrock was close enough to the Shaw patent that had to make something even closer? Interesting.


----------



## donwilwol

I can't find a Shade patent for this plane. Are you sure it's not a Shaw with a Stanley blade?


----------



## Johnny7

Congrats, PK

I too am only vaguely familiar with these, but I believe you mean the SCHRADE patnet.


----------



## 33706

https://www.plane-dealer.com/single-post/2017/09/14/Which-Came-First---Chicken-or-the-Egg-or-Mr-Shaw-vs-Mr-Schade

*As it turns out, a guy by the name of John H. Shaw who was working for Sargent Tool Company patented a similar design that actually predates Schade's Bedrock patent by 6 years, (July 3, 1905 to be exact - patent number 824954). Though the patent date is earlier, the plane wasn't mass produced or heavily marketed until about 1910 and the Bedrock part deux about a year later.*

all signs point to Schade, and his patent as applied to a Stanley plane. It's perplexing, though, and very little info is available. It is NOT a Sargent plane. It is not a frankenplane, either. Even 'Blood and Gore' makes mention of a Stanley plane with this Schade adaptation. It's not listed among the #2-#8 section however.

*Johnny7*: The only patent I could find owned by "Schrade" is that of a pocketknife design.

Thanks all, for your kind replies! The mystery continues! Please tell me what you find, to confirm or disprove what I've written so far!!


----------



## RWE

And I thought attempting to collect a user set of #3-8 Bedrock planes was being obsessive?
Am humbled by your enthusiasm, and knowledge of Stanley planes. 
Please carry on. I appreciate the education!

I picked up a nice early 608 several years back and it is my favorite plane by far. I understand that opinions differ and maybe it is the overall heft of the 608 that has convinced me that Bedrocks are "all that". I got that baby for $110 or so. I never see affordable Bedrocks in the wild or on Ebay. At Christmas I found a K 4 Keen Kutter in excellent shape for $45.00. So that spurred me on to finally buy a K3 on the Bay at too high a price. However, that rounded out the high side of the collection and low side. I have at this point around 6 Jacks so I think I will hold off on a K5 or Bedrock 605 unless I stumble over a deal.

My weak point in my collection are the 6 and 7. I have a B-Plane 6 and a Siegley 7. The Siegley needs some attention and tuning and I never get around to it because I just grab the 608 and bypass the 6 and 7.

I aspired to a full line of Bedrocks, but I think for all intents and purposes the K3 and K4 qualify. I have learned that if you go and buy on Ebay, you ruin the pleasure of the hunt. Better to yearn and search than to overpay and then have to change goals.

I have a week long work related trip coming up and every chance I get I will be checking out the antique stores. Might find that 605 or 607.


----------



## theoldfart

I picked up a 608 and a 604 flatsides for $75 on Craig's List two years ago so they can be found. Mind you, it takes a boatload of luck and being in the right place at the right time.


----------



## 33706

In this same antiques shop in BC, there was a #608, #606, and #605. Each under $100 CDN, so ~ $75 apiece. I might have picked up the #608, but it had a chunk out of the trailing side of the mouth, and I have one anyway. You are right, *RWE*, to go out and scan every possible venue, repeatedly, to complete your set. The sooner you complete your set, the sooner you can collect a set of other planes, like a complete matched set of hollow and round molding planes, like the Mathieson set I'm building.

I'm looking at the *Schade* patents at this moment; did you know he patented the pins for Bedrock frog screws? He wrote or co-wrote a bunch of patents in the 1900-1910 era. I'm just not seeing the patent I'm looking for, could 'Blood and Gore" be wrong?

The other point that must be made: I don't know how many rare planes I might have overlooked, simply by passing by without taking a closer look at the frog, for example. I quickly dismiss any plane if it looks like a typical generic 'Made in USA' plane which are so common, but my #4 Shaw Patent plane I got last year landed in my hands at an antique show because there was nothing else to buy. Cripes I paid $10 for it. I didn't realize that it was *something* 'til I got it home!


----------



## IantheTinker

I am getting more into hand tools, nearly finished with my first hand tool work bench! The mortises are a bit sloppy, as I am not the best with a chisel. I have been getting by with a $10 Harbor Freight plane, but I would love to get my hands on a Stanley #5!


----------



## RWE

It should not take too much looking around to come up with a #5 Stanley. My favorite Jack is a Type 9 that I picked up when I knew very little about the subject. It was around $20. I also have a type 11 for about the same price. Type 16's are common as dirt and can make good users. Go on Blood and Gore and study the types, the patents, the shape of the cap iron's hole for the screw etc. Flea markets and estates sales will have the best prices, then antique malls. Craigslist if you are in the right part of the country where planes are plentiful can be a good resource. Once you get the 5, then you will need a 4, then a 3, then a 7, then an 8, in that order I think. LOL. You can skip the 6.


----------



## Mosquito

PK, is thi sthe patent you were talking about above?


----------



## 33706

*Mos,* That one comes pretty close, but the concept was having one singular screw in front to hold the frog down, and two screws behind the cutter, one on each side of the wheel of the cutter height adjuster. These two screws are accessible from either side of the cutter assembly, but just barely. All this foofaraw to save the 5 seconds it takes to dismount the cutter as on a conventional plane, for the rare occaision that you'd want to adjust the mouth of the plane.

At this point I'm willing to concede that this may indeed be a Shaw Patent frog….unless I put in a few more hours with my books. I'd jump on it if there is any history of Shaw Patent frogs being used on Stanley planes! Neither does mine have that double lever cap/tensioner thing as in the drawing above. I've got the Larson/Blanchard patent books….I'll find the drawing that matches the plane sooner or later. These books have neither an index or part number legend to identify the parts…but I'm on it, the hard way.


----------



## Johnny7

*PK*

Is THIS the Blood & Gore page you referenced?
(I ask because I see no reference there to a Stanley plane with the Shaw's patent adj mechanism)

Also, can we get a look at the lateral adjust lever on that plane?


----------



## donwilwol

Ok, can we see more pictures of the frog and seat. Either way it's a good find. Shaw #7s are oretthard to come by.

Mark and I did some collaboration. He was the contributing editor in my book. . If you find this to be anything but a Shaw I'd VERY interested.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> And I thought attempting to collect a user set of #3-8 Bedrock planes was being obsessive?
> 
> - CaptainKlutz
> 
> Once the 603-608 are in the till, the 602 and any missing fractional will follow.
> 
> - WayneC


This is embarrassing: but maybe too late I'm afraid? 
Only thing missing from my BedRock plane till right now is 602 & 605 1/4.
Never see these models in wild, and fleabay prices are too ridiculous to consider purchase.

It's worse, Even own both plain and corrugated versions of larger 605-1/2, 606. 607, & 608 planes. I really like the weight of 1/2 size planes for smoothing panels. Bought the smooth bottom 'duplicates' as I like them better for edge jointing, as had already bought bargain pried corrugated versions before I learned of my preference.

Missing the 602 & 605 1/4 is not a problem?
Do have (2) 5-1/4; (1) type16 with thicker war type base casting, and (1) type 20; both purchased from local university sale when model shop was shut down. 
Also have a #2 Franken plane; mostly type 11 with replacement post war to 1960's blade/chipbeaker/cap iron. Stumbled across it hiding in a kitchen drawer at a estate sale. Really dislike the #2. My Klutz meat hooks are too big to comfortably hold the tote. Since I can't afford trophy cases full of planes; spending $300-400 average price on 602 would be silly for something I never use. 
Only thing I am actively looking for is reasonably priced 605-1/4. Will share when hell freezes over and I find one.

Cheers!


----------



## 33706

*Okay you guys, more info on the Shaw plane:*

As I started to disassemble it, I noticed that the Stanley lateral lever was pinned improperly, it should have been properly peened to the frog which it wasn't. With a little wiggling, I was able to force it out by hand. Then I concluded that the Stanley cutter was just an ill-chosen replacement.

I've come to the conclusion that you guys were right all along, and that I went off half-cocked in my mistaken identification. Plus, my hopes grew as I waited for the plane to arrive, 6 days after I bought it at that antiques store. The details about 'Schade' in the books misled me to think this was his patent. His patent, #955557, did suggest that this is what I had in my possession.

All is not lost, it will be not too difficult to find the correct replacement lateral, cutter, and then try to identify which lever cap is correct for this plane. 'pneiderberger' has a #6 Shaw/Sargent listed on eBay, but the bed itself is not quite right in the details, other than being the wrong size. So maybe this plane deviates from the typical Sargent plane of the era?

My best guess is that this plane was robbed of parts to repair another plane, and this carcass was made whole again with whatever was on hand for the purpose of resale.

Thanks for all your interest. I'll post an update as the true restoration progresses.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Sharing a couple pictures of the home made woody. I have no idea by who though. Body of the plane looks to be beech. Stanley SW metal plane parts from a No 4. Really a joy to use. I still need to give it a clean.

My new avatar. I'll probably change the picture once I have it spruced up a bit.


----------



## donwilwol

That's pretty cool Mike.


----------



## HokieKen

That is really cool Mike. Did the maker have to modify the iron to feed through the thicker sole?


----------



## RWE

I am on the road this week and ran across a #6 Stanley. Can anyone help date this fellow.

No patent dates, keyhole cap iron. I can make out STANLEY in block letters on the iron. Just the No. 6 on the toe.

What is odd looking to me is the frog. It seems to be less bulky than the "normal" Stanley frog and has a pronounce curvature.

I am guessing it is an early model, but I am not sure. Hopefully some of you will recognize it and know the type. It has a knick on the handle, but should clean up nicely. They want $50.




























Anybody that can help and offer an opinion, would be appreciated. If it is an older type, maybe it would be worth the price?


----------



## BlasterStumps

What is on the lateral adjustment lever, any patent dates? That tote is from an early type that's about all I can tell you. Other than it's in great shape for it's age. I have several from about the same time period.

edit: at least a type 6 with that style lateral adjustment lever, no ring on knob


----------



## BlasterStumps

> That is really cool Mike. Did the maker have to modify the iron to feed through the thicker sole?
> 
> - HokieKen


Not that I could see. The bottom of the frog sits on the bench then the wood is chiseled to a point and then there is a step for the bottoms of the frog again. At some point in the clean up, I will get a picture of how it was done.


----------



## WayneC

RWE. I would think early as well. Type 6-7 without it and the type study in hand.

Blaster, Absolute beauty.


----------



## DLK

> That s pretty cool Mike.
> 
> - Don W


I agree thats pretty cool. I may have to make one.


----------



## corelz125

Don K did you ever find the thread size for sargent planes?


----------



## RWE

I am on the road this week and ran across a #6 Stanley. Can anyone help date this fellow.

No patent dates, keyhole cap iron. I can make out STANLEY in block letters on the iron. Just the No. 6 on the toe.

What is odd looking to me is the frog. It seems to be less bulky than the "normal" Stanley frog and has a pronounce curvature.

I am guessing it is an early model, but I am not sure. Hopefully some of you will recognize it and know the type. It has a knick on the handle, but should clean up nicely. They want $50.

Blaster:

Back home. I picked up the #6. It has one Patent date, so I guess that makes it a Type 8. Appreciate your help. I will post pictures after the refurb. My favorite (non-Bedrock) is a Type 9 #5, so I am sure the Type 8 will be a good one.


----------



## DLK

> Don K did you ever find the thread size for sargent planes?
> 
> - corelz125


I don't remember what this is in reference to.


----------



## corelz125

It was an old post on timetestedtools you were looking for the thread size on sargent planes. On there you got a bunch of answers but none of them on the actual size of the screw threads. Last I read you were ordering a screw pitch gauge.LAst guess you mentioned was 1/4"-22.


----------



## BlasterStumps

This is a little off topic for this thread but I don't know a better place to post this question.

As you can see I have been messing around with changing my avatar (buddy icon). I have been largely unsuccessful in getting a picture that I took with my iphone to upload properly to the buddy icon spot. I tried to resize the picture to 146 px but didn't change anything. still too large. I even tried to take the size down to 50 px. Too large still. Can anyone tell me what in 7 shades of purple I am doing wrong. I can't locate a help section on the forum that addresses this.


----------



## JayT

Is your pic cropped to a square before uploading? I've had the best luck with avatars making sure the pic I'm uploading is square, not the rectangle that is how most pics are saved. Once it's a square, I resize down and then upload.

Don't know if that helps or not.


----------



## HokieKen

I bought this guy a while back but it was without a blade. It sat in the shop neglected for several months until I finally got around to making a new scraper for it from a piece of .050" spring steel. Last night I needed to scrape a few spots on my bench and give it a fresh oiling so I put it to work for the first time. I didn't know what I was missing! I've always liked my #80 scraper but the heft of this and the ability to vary the angle are huge. I'm a happy camper


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks JayT, I remembered there was a "square" option on the phone. I will select that and take another picture. Just might be what I have been missing. Thanks again.


----------



## WayneC

Mike,

You can also edit an existing photo from your photo album. There is a crop button and you can select a preset square crop.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I think I have it figured out. I selected "square" on the iphone photo options and took a test pic. It came out full size when put in the buddy icon spot. Thanks JayT, thanks WayneC. Turns out the problem wasn't of a technical nature, more a brain malfunction : )


----------



## corelz125

nice scraper Kenny. You only have 1?


----------



## HokieKen

> nice scraper Kenny. You only have 1?
> 
> - corelz125


I have that #12 and a #80 corelz. And an assortment of card and gooseneck scrapers. I've also been on the hunt for a #112 for quite some time. Has to be in my price range though ;-)


----------



## corelz125

I hear that one. I have been browsing #112s myself and they usually get out of my price range pretty quick. Have you ever used the #81?


----------



## HokieKen

Not an 81. I like the 80 for smaller stuff because it lets you adjust the camber in the blade. I really like the extra heft of the 12 though and can see it being my go-to scraper for larger pieces. At least until I score a 112 

I've never had hands-on with an 81. Does it offer any advantage over the 80?


----------



## bandit571

Or..even one of these?










Stanley #82…


----------



## corelz125

I have the same deal you had Kenny. Have an 82 with no blade and haven't had time to get it work ways yet.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> I have the same deal you had Kenny. Have an 82 with no blade and haven t had time to get it work ways yet.
> 
> - corelz125


St James Bay tools sells replacement #82 scraper blades
https://www.stjamesbaytoolco.com/

The ebay store has them for $4.95 plus shipping.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/stanley-82-scraper-blade-new-reproduction/173594317709?
https://www.ebay.com/str/the-st-james-bay-tool-co?

He is located here in Phoenix, AZ and is serious about old quality tools. 
Making one of his infill plane kits in on my 'Handplanes of Dreams' list.


----------



## donwilwol

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/04/09/making-a-scraper-out-of-a-saw-plate/


----------



## HokieKen

Good walk-through Don. I did pretty much exactly the same thing except I didn't have the foresight to round the top corners off. That's a darned good idea though and I think I'll do that next time it needs a burr turned


----------



## corelz125

I bought a few things from ST James before and have no complaints about his quality. Don I read your article before I bought the 82. I have one saw that's looking to be a donor.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Okay, had to get it out of the corner shelf exile it's been relegated to.










SW blade and a toothed "Stanley 28" original I found in a box o' crap at auction a whike back.


----------



## bandit571

Random plane picture..









Millers Falls No. 9, type 2….


----------



## HokieKen

Nice score on the toothed blade Smitty! Those dang things go for more than the stinkin' plane. WHEN you can find 'em.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I was very happy to find it, knew they were rather scarce. I played around with it a bit last night; my bench top gets flattened w/ toothed iron in the LN 164; the 12 scraper did pretty well too!


----------



## Mosquito

Oh Smitty, that's a thing of beauty


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thanks for taking a break from water patrol to comment, Mos. Sorry you're going through that, man! Totally sux.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photo.
.








Finicky beast…


----------



## Bertha

I haven't been on here in forever. You guys have become really advanced. 
Smit, that toothed blade is a keeper. I'm on a card scraper tear right now.
Nice randoms, Bandit.


----------



## corelz125

Sargent 43


----------



## corelz125

Stanley 12 1/2. I can't seem to pass by any plane for a decent price.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sargent bling AND a 12 1/2. Well played, corelz.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Smitty, I needed the occasional break to eat something, and get away from it, if only virtually lol Could have been much worse, so I'm thankful it wasn't


----------



## corelz125

Thanks Smitty I was on a scraper kick for awhile any scraper I saw for a decent price came home with me.


----------



## bandit571

The main reason I have been using that Stanley No. 3c?









Is that the #4c…









feels a bit too big for this job…









#4c is from England, BTW….think Paul Sellers is missing one?


----------



## KentInOttawa

I bought a 3C to round out my fleet, but I'm not a collector ;-)









It was made in Mexico. It's newer than a Type 20. You can see where Stanley started making all the shortcuts to make a cheaper plane (folded lateral adjuster, steel(-ish) depth adjustment knob and a slab-sided tote) but it still does the job well enough.









Does anyone have a Made in Canada Type 18 3c that they're willing to part with?


----------



## corelz125

I'm not into trannys but this one I couldn't pass by.


----------



## KentInOttawa

I got very lucky and found this on Kijiji. I finally picked it up today.










It works well, even without sharpening.










It's a Stanley No 2. All the features (frog, depth adjuster) tell me it's a later plane, but it came with a blade having a TmV Trademark (1912-1918). I took the frog off to see the base casting to confirm the type, and here's what I found:










It looks like Stanley had modified the Type 18/19 base casting to suit the No 2's small size.

This is one of the "long" No 2s @ 8". Does anybody know approximately when they were made?


----------



## donwilwol

I believe tha 8" was one of the last ones made which would put it circa 1960


----------



## Mosquito

Alright, I might be getting closer to admitting to the sickness…


----------



## RWE

That is a beauty. Please explain what make and year etc.


----------



## Mosquito

Philips Patent plow plane, which I believe is 1870-1875 for this particular type of design. It was essentially succeeded by the first round of Mayo Patent plow planes, which were basically an upgrade to these.


----------



## woodcox

Nice mos. I mean sorry mos. What is the spring? on top of the iron for? Does it hold it in place if the lever cap is loose or does it just protect the iron from the screw tensioner?


----------



## Mosquito

I think it's a little bit of both, actually. The spring does help to hold it in place when you losten it, but still allows you to adjust the iron. The irons have a groove in the back of them (bevel side) that rides on the skate, much in the same way the old wooden plow irons do. The brass spring seems to hold the iron against that enough so that the iron stays in that groove fairly well when adjusting it


----------



## donwilwol

Well Mos. You've definitely taken it to a new level. Very nice!!


----------



## Mosquito

Initial impressions: 
There are definitely some things I like about this plane in use… 
And some things I'm not as fond of lol
More details later


----------



## Mosquito




----------



## BenDupre

Okay i got a little over twisty with the screwdriver. Anyone know where one can find a replacement for this cheap cast metal cap iron? It's one of those indian made shoulder planes.










Thanks!

Ben


----------



## donwilwol

First time I ever sharpened and used a Gage.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Don! Those have always been a plane that intriqued me. I've always been curious to know how the mechanism works in detail

Sorry Ben, I have no idea :-/


----------



## corelz125

Don what's the verdict between the Gage and the Sargent Auto sets?


----------



## donwilwol

> Don what s the verdict between the Gage and the Sargent Auto sets?
> 
> - corelz125


That'll need some additional study ;-)


----------



## WayneC

> Okay i got a little over twisty with the screwdriver. Anyone know where one can find a replacement for this cheap cast metal cap iron? It's one of those indian made shoulder planes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ben
> 
> - BenDupre


That's tough. Who sells it?


----------



## WayneC

Gage planes? Next thing you know Don you're going to have a full set of Bedrocks.


----------



## WayneC

MOS, what a sweet plane. Did it come with cutters?


----------



## BenDupre

> Okay i got a little over twisty with the screwdriver. Anyone know where one can find a replacement for this cheap cast metal cap iron? It's one of those indian made shoulder planes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ben
> 
> - BenDupre
> 
> That s tough. Who sells it?
> 
> - WayneC


I bought this one from Garret Wade, but they don't sell it any more. Shop Fox also has a version, and maybe some others. I do not know the manufacturer, only that they are in India and also make other planes and sell under different brands in the US.

Ben


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> Okay i got a little over twisty with the screwdriver. Anyone know where one can find a replacement for this cheap cast metal cap iron? It's one of those indian made shoulder planes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ben
> 
> - BenDupre


#1 - The big 3 India plane mfg are easy to find. Couple even offer spare parts online. Business language in India is English, so they are easy to communicate with directly too. Suggest you ask who makes clone 92, and if parts are available?
http://www.ambikaoverseas.com/woodworkingtools.html
https://www.shobha-india.com/index.html
http://www.anant-tools.com/index.html

#2 - The broken cap iron looks like the one on my Stanley 92 shoulder plane? Might be find a source for Stanley parts online?

Best Luck.


----------



## Mosquito

> MOS, what a sweet plane. Did it come with cutters?
> 
> - WayneC


Just the one that's in it, unfortunately. Though if I intend to primarilly display it, I'm not as bothered by not having all the irons, as that saves a fair bit of expense lol


----------



## bandit571

"Special Planes"....random photos…









What is so special about a #3, a #4, a #6 and a #7?









They all have these grooves in their soles ( Groovy Souls?)

The #4 was made in England the other three have Patent Dates…









The #3c has 3 patent dates, and a SW iron…the #6c and the #7c have just 2 dates, and older irons…


----------



## DLK

On the Miller falls tool group forum Casey Benton writes

Millers Falls Never used jappaning. Only paint.

Is this true or just nonsense?


----------



## woodcox

I could never taste the difference.

Ben, I have a similar shop fox that is 5/8 wide and 19 cast into the top. I hope you find a replacement to get it going again. I think mine came from grizzly a while ago and has become a pretty useful size.


----------



## HokieKen

I read the same elsewhere Don. It rings true because I've sandblasted old Stanleys and MFs and the MFs give up the ghost more easily I think. Not that it's absolute confirmation but, it would seem to support that assertion.


----------



## WayneC

Ben any possibility you could fabricate a replacement part from a piece of metal?


----------



## Johnny7

*Combo Prof*

It would be useful to clarify the argument. Are we just talking planes, or all MF tools?

MF did indeed use japanning on many tools.

Planes however, appear to be a different story. MF got into the plane-making game much later than Stanley, and it appears that they used *black enamel* on theirs.


----------



## Mosquito

Since I can't seem to get the YouTube videos to embed in LJ post anymore, you'll just have to click the link lol


----------



## WayneC

That sucks. I saw there was a Phillips Plow on eBay. Pretty pricey.


----------



## DonBroussard

I saw this Stanley tool at a flea market in northern Arkansas a couple of days ago. It is about 7" or so long. I have never seen one before and have no idea what its function might be, and no, I didn't buy it. Any ideas? I'll be passing by that same place this weekend, so if someone needs it, I can pick it up.



















Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## WayneC

Along the line of what Mos has been doing, I have been collecting small router planes. Specifically variants of the Record 040, 043, and 044. I recently got Marples M40 and MA43 planes and thought I would share photos. I really like these small planes. They are very functional.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Clapboard gauge used for install of wood siding. Street price is in the neighborhood of $12, in VG+ Condition.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, JCBoxLot seemed to have found a couple nice plows recently… I'm unwisely watching the Mayo Patent plane he has listed…


----------



## WayneC

> Yeah, JCBoxLot seemed to have found a couple nice plows recently… I m unwisely watching the Mayo Patent plane he has listed…
> 
> - Mosquito


I think they wanted almost $400 for it?

My list of planes on my wish list is fortunately pretty short these days. I'm casually looking for a Left hand LN-140 and a LN Open mouth Large Router Plane steal on eBay. I'm currently taking a blacksmith class, so that is where the tool money is going these days.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Along the line of what Mos has been doing, I have been collecting small plough planes.
> 
> - WayneC


Fixed it for you. Unless router planes have really changed!


----------



## DonBroussard

Thanks, Smitty. I learned something new again today.


----------



## DLK

> *Combo Prof*
> 
> It would be useful to clarify the argument. Are we just talking planes, or all MF tools?
> 
> MF did indeed use japanning on many tools.
> 
> Planes however, appear to be a different story. MF got into the plane-making game much later than Stanley, and it appears that they used *black enamel* on theirs.
> 
> - Johnny7


I did mean planes. I was confused, because I saw MF planes advertised saying 90% japanning. Anyway it would be good to know for restoration which tools were Japanned and which were enameled. Are there any authoritative references I could check?


----------



## chrisstef

Vintage Stanley bedrock planer
https://hartford.craigslist.org/tls/d/east-hartford-vintage-stanley-bedrock/6850586995.html

Looks prototype to me. What you fellas think? If i can get it on the cheaper side of $50 i might squeeze.


----------



## donwilwol

Finding the right "bedrock" blade might be tough.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'd do it. Especially with Stef money.


----------



## Johnny7

> Vintage Stanley bedrock planer
> https://hartford.craigslist.org/tls/d/east-hartford-vintage-stanley-bedrock/6850586995.html
> 
> Looks prototype to me. What you fellas think? If i can get it on the cheaper side of $50 i might squeeze.
> 
> - chrisstef


On what basis is someone claiming that that is even a Stanley product, let alone a "Bedrock"?


----------



## Johnny7

> *Combo Prof*
> 
> It would be useful to clarify the argument. Are we just talking planes, or all MF tools?
> 
> MF did indeed use japanning on many tools.
> 
> Planes however, appear to be a different story. MF got into the plane-making game much later than Stanley, and it appears that they used *black enamel* on theirs.
> 
> - Johnny7
> 
> I did mean planes. I was confused, because I saw MF planes advertised saying 90% japanning. Anyway it would be good to know for restoration which tools were Japanned and which were enameled. Are there any authoritative references I could check?
> 
> - Combo Prof


You're seeing those terms in ads, because people use such terms loosely.
There is no definitive source as to what is, and is not, japanned.

Check the old manuals-many tools have detailed descriptions.
This single page example should serve to show that MF did indeed distinguish between the two finishes:


----------



## bandit571

random plane photo…









Stanley No. 3c….3 patent dates….does have a SW iron, though…going up against White Oak…









And Ash…


----------



## chrisstef

Def not a bedrock and i couldnt imagine where that info would come from but it interests me for some reason. An obvious lack of rust in my veins.


----------



## Johnny7

OK, Stef-now I get it!


----------



## chrisstef

Sorry lol. Didnt mean to be cryptic. The iron def aint original and the chip breaker is super suspect but the body and cap look early or prototype to me. I could be way out in left field on it too lol.


----------



## corelz125

Chrisstef looks like a tower and Lyons chaplins patent


----------



## woodcox

I like the bat wings up the sides. The plastic? tote looks original and fits the casting boss for it. Corrugated two times? The advance looks cool, I'd like to see a better view of the bed and and what the screw cap pivots on. Interesting plane, Stef.


----------



## woodcox

Nice corelz! It looks like they made a wicked looking miter/chute plane too.


----------



## donwilwol

It's a Chaplin's patent. They didn't have a chip breaker


----------



## WayneC

Some random block planes…


----------



## JayT

Wayne, you can randomly send me one of those middle two.


----------



## WayneC

LOL. Thought cold dead fingers comes to mind.


----------



## HokieKen

If you ask me, the one on the left is the gem of that lineup!


----------



## theoldfart

^ yup!


----------



## WayneC

My favorite user is on the right. Stanley 65 with a hock cutter. Like the way it fits my hand and how it performs.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Since we are dreaming:
I don't have any knuckle cap style planes in my shop, they are always too expensive on fleabay.
How about sending them all to me? Maybe just one? 
Really appreciate the kindness.
Darn.
Thanks for reading…


----------



## WayneC




----------



## Mosquito

This one was for Wayne 




  










Yes, I finally got a Record 043. Yes, I built a mini display stand for it. No, it's not actually just for the collection, I intend to use it, I just decided to have some fun lol


----------



## HokieKen

Finally snagged a MF 07 off the 'bay for $70 shipped on a "best offer" listing  I've been stalking those things for well over a year.









I have a Stanley 140 without the side piece that will be going up for sale soon assuming there are no hidden surprise issues with the MF.


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## theoldfart

That's cool.


----------



## CFrye

What he ^^^ said!


----------



## WayneC

Very nice Don.

Only 1 record 043 MOS? I have two more in the mail. SMH.


----------



## Mosquito

lol It will likely stay at 1. Maybe 3, one for each iron lol


----------



## woodcox

My first plow plane, a Record no.050. I think is complete less the 5/16" plow iron.


----------



## RWE

Anybody have an idea about this? The vendor had it marked as a cabinet scrapper without iron. I could not make out a brand name or any logo on the whole of the tool.

It did appear that you could run a rectangular scrapper plate through the device and use the screw to establish the length of the plate exposed. After thinking about it, that would allow you to set the angle of attack and the curved slope of the trailing edge made sense. There is a slot at the top of the device as shown in the picture and a parallel slot at the bottom where the tightening screw is located. Should have taken more pictures.

It is just weird looking. Looks like some sort of ice cream scoop.

I passed on it but could swing by and pick it up ($18). I was just curious if anyone had seen such a scrapper (or whatever) and knew the purpose and method for using it.

I assume it was designed for curved work?

.


----------



## theoldfart

Looks like a box scraper, used to peel labels off of wooden crates.


----------



## bandit571

Picked up one a while back.
.









had a very toothy blade to it, though..









All kinds of profiles…









maybe a large "Scratch Stock" sort of molding tool?


----------



## RWE

Thanks for the replies.

Had some time to do some research. Found this link to one being sold on Etsy.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/659859996/rare-paint-scraping-tool-double-sided?gaorder=mostrelevant&gasearchtype=all&gaviewtype=gallery&gasearchquery=antique+wood+scraper&ref=sc_gallery-1-1&plkey=23c3b3ee27c94dd14e4fef888be8489669d0af2f%3A659859996&frs=1
.
Maybe it was sold with a variety of irons/blades. Using it a scratch stock tool makes sense and would explain the curvature of the sole a bit.

Bandit: If you test drive it as a scratch stock tool, let us know how it works.


----------



## DLK

Rather than as a scratch stock tool. I bet the blades were modified to be paint scrapers for molding, etc.


----------



## donwilwol

I'd guess box scraper too.


----------



## RWE

My guess is the curvature of the tool was used because of the inherent strength in that design, the physics of it. I don't think the curvature was part of the way the tool was meant to be used. So I am guessing now that it is a box scrapper or paint scrapper. I have an adjustable angle Starrett scrapper that is designed much like a Stanley 283. The utility in those scrappers is the adjustable angle that can be dialed in to the best cutting angle. This animal has no such flexibility, so that makes me think it was a paint scrapper or a box scrapper. Unfortunately, I don't exactly understand the concept of a box scrapper. I guess when shipping was largely in barrels, crates and boxes, there was a tool designed to scrape labels of of those wooden containers so they could be relabeled and reused? Hence the term "box scraper". If you Google "box scrapper" you wind up with a lot of images for farm implements/plows. So if anyone has a link to "box scrapper" that discusses that term it would be appreciated.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Too quiet lately?

Random plane photo:









.
Veritas LA Jack plane taking whispy shavings as it cleans up saw marks on some Goncalo Alves


----------



## bandit571

Might want to look up a Stanley #70 Box Scraper…..mine works quite nicely..


----------



## RWE

Will look at the 70, thanks. I scanned Blood and Gore but did not see a similar scaper to the one that I had run across (as posted above). The 70 looks similar.

Later in the week, I got lucky and found a 112 for $38.00. It was missing the blade and I had not noticed, but one of the angle adjusting nuts. Had a nice nick on the top of the handle, which I have already repaired.










bottom shot:










It seems that Hock sells an iron for a 12 or 112. I happen to already have a 12. Here is a picture of the missing nut from off the 12. *Anyone in Lumberjocks have an extra 12/112 nut they would part with? * Private message me if so. Between the 12 and 112, I can have one authentic complete plane. I am inclined to test out the 112 after I refurb it and make the decision. I do work with crotch burl walnut a bit, so I am anxious to try the 112. I like the 12 very much and the Starrett scraper is very friendly to use as well. I am missing the wooden handle with slot that fits over the Starrett plate, but I will get around to turning one some day.

Missing adjuster nut on the 112:









Scraper collection (so far):










If I like the 112 a lot, i will put the Hock replacement iron in it. Just need the adjuster nut. Help!!

Anyone want to share thoughts about a 112 or 12? I think sharpening is the key, as it is with most planes, but Blood and Gore was very positive on the 112. Looks like it will be fun. I have it in Evaporust and it is cleaning up very nicely. Will post after refurb.


----------



## DLK

I like the 112 a lot. Sharpen a bevel at 45 degrees. Turn a hook or not. See what you like better.


----------



## HokieKen

I really like my #12. The 112 is very near the top of my "wishlist" but so far, one that's a price I'm willing to swallow has eluded me :-(. Finding one for $38 is worthy of a "you suck!" if you ask me ;-)


----------



## RWE

I had to stand my ground with Momma on the 112. She was hopping mad at me for 48 hours. Made me miserable, but I took it like a man. The clerk heard her fussing at me. I told him, "Look, I got to get this. Give me a discount so I can convince her." So he knocked off 15% of the $45 list price to help a fellow hen-pecked husband. You have to pick your fights. So, I don't deserve a "you suck". I worked hard for that baby.


----------



## HokieKen

You ain't the only one rowin' that boat RWE ;-). My "you suck" stands even if you did have to spend a night or two on the couch.


----------



## RWE

You sir are a hard case! But that is alright. You just need to get out and scour the Flea Malls and Antique stores and you too can earn a "you suck" one day. LOL

The truth is, I see mostly the same kind of planes and saws etc. time after time. So it was fun to stumble over a good and interesting item at a good price.

I picked up a strange file that I had never before seen. Research showed it to be a knife file. Has a safe edge on top and looks like a knife blade. I now understand what it is for, but had never seen one or heard of one. Also got a Jennings 1 inch bit in reasonably good shape. Good chisels seem to be the most rare items in those stores.


----------



## DLK

Make you 112 look as pretty as the one I got in August 5 of 2016.










I paid 2.5 times what you paid and mine looked like this










so RWE you do suck!


----------



## RWE

I am in my late sixties and in the deep south where I grew up there used to be a law on the books about "fighting words". Essentially, if someone said something to you that was on the approved "fighting words" list, you could commence to punching them and the law was ok about it.

Now in modern times, I am told that "I suck" and I sit here and wonder exactly what that connotation means to the modern temperament. On the one hand I want to throw a punch cause it sounds like "fighting words" and on the other hand I am thinking, Oh, that is just how folks talk now, no big deal.

I gave the price I paid for the 112 simply because if I were reading the post, I would want to know what the price was. I antique a lot and seeing what folks pay for this or that plane interests me. On the 112 I got extremely lucky, but it has flaws and shortcomings. The Hock blade will be $30 plus.

So having said that, I do not suck and if you got in my face in person and said that, my geriatric self might start commencing to punching on you. LOL

Combo: I am going out now to pull the 112 out of the Evaporust bath. Your original picture looks about like the one I got, but the handle was definitely in better shape. Hopefully mine will finish out as nice. Looks good. I will try out the idea on the 45 degree angle as well. The Starrett has a 45 on it but I put a hook on it. With the Starrett and I assume with the Stanley equivalent, you can easily adjust the angle of attack as you cut across the boards surface. Truth is, I spend more time restoring tools than I do woodworking. Got to quit this Antiquing thing.


----------



## DLK

"You suck" has become a term of affection around here meaning "I'm jealous, but happy you got it". It is quite the honor. (I'm in my mid 60s.) The other day at an arts and craft show I overheard a young man say about a well made lovely leather satchel that it was "sick", right in front of the the 60+ gentleman that made it. No punching ensued .


----------



## RWE

Random Shop furniture pictures (with an emphasis on Plane storage):

Reworking the shop a bit lately. Fine Woodworking had an article where a fellow made hanging plywood panels for his tool storage. My shop is 14 foot by 15 foot and crammed full of power equipment. I did not have room for a nice tool cabinet. So I followed the lead of the writer and used panels and made them interchangeable. I expect that I will add side wings at some point. Anyone thinking about doing this type of setup can find the magnet strips at Harbor Freight at very good price point.

It is all built on 2 by 4's toggle bolted to the concrete blocks with a plywood sheet screwed to the uprights, then panels on that. I added the tool well at the bottom and love that. It is not attached to the bench and rides below the bench surface, but very handy.










I guess I suck at Estate Sales as well. Found this in a deceased woodworker's shop. He had it full of cans and small tools. Looked like a plane cabinet to me.










Well it is shop furniture, who cares if the frame is white with pirated oak doors










And last but not least, my combo saw till/plane till. Natural edge spalted willow. Weird but functional.


----------



## RWE

Progress made on the 112:

Note the knife file. Only thing I have ever seen with "Made in Finland" stamped on it.










Evaporust is good stuff.
Before:









After:









Getting the handle and knob a bit more finished:










Was debating whether or not to redo the japanning, but I think I have to go ahead and do it.


----------



## donwilwol

Nice save on the 112.

"You suck", "That's sick", and wearing pajamas and flip-flops in public, all "what the heck" moments for us more experienced folks.


----------



## bandit571

Like trading 2 wooden jack planes for a Stanley No. 6c, Type 10?


----------



## corelz125

Nice deal on that 112. I have seen the nut for them pop up on ebay once in awhile. It might be as much as you paid for the plane though. Still a good price.


----------



## RWE

It is the same nut as on a 12. I am hoping to find a busted up or flawed 12 for parts. For now, I will probably just use the 12 nut that I have and the 12 iron and swap out those parts between the two planes. 12's seem to be at a lower price point, so maybe I can get lucky on one.

I am extremely pleased to get the 112. It is nice to have something special pop up ever so often.

Hokie: My best friend outdid me. He had a friend tell him that he had on old plane he would give him. His friend had found out that he was a woodworker. So he brings him a pristine Stanley 72 that was a hand me down in the family and gives it to him for free.


----------



## bobasaurus

I've been making a monsterous plane blade for the upcoming Kezurou-Kai Colorado hand planing competition. The stock they provide is 2.5" wide, which only a #8 blade or equivalent is wide enough to plane in full. I don't have a good #8 set up, so I decided to make my own blade and plane. I started with a big piece of 1018 mild steel, 1/4"x3"x6", and forge-welded on a 3/16" thick piece of starrett O1 tool steel. I scarfed the O1 first, ground both mating surfaces, and then mig-welded a bead around all sides to keep oxygen out. In hindsight, I should have left the bead off the scarf, as it didn't blend in as well as I would have liked. Here it's starting to heat up:










I brought it up to over 2300 F then tapped both piece together to do the forge weld. I then blended the two pieces together while hammering in a taper in the blade. I'm making a western-style (despite the Japanese-themed competition) tapered blade, thicker at the cutting edge.

Started grinding the crud off, still looking messy but it's better to leave it thick before heat treatment then do the final grinding after:










I did the heat treatment this evening. Coated with anti-scale clay, did a few normalizing cycles to reduce grain size, heated it up to critical, and quenched in pre-heated oil. Tempering to a little shy of 400 F in the kitchen oven right now.


----------



## BlasterStumps

RWE, the 112 is looking good.

I had to go look at my knife file after seeing your picture to see where it was made. Turns out it is a Grobet, made in Switzerland. It's an older file that is 4" long and has a stamped no 2 on it. Handy little bugger. I use it quite often.

Wanted to ask, do the magnets cause the tools to attract metal particles?


----------



## bobasaurus

For the body I'm trying an odd combo of walnut and padauk, as I had straight-grained pieces about the right size. I'm proud of how tight the seams are thanks to planing. Used west system g/flex epoxy since the padauk is oily.


----------



## RWE

Granddaughter is here for the weekend, so no shop time.

I thought the knife file might work really well on cleaning up the lead screw (there is a term for those, but i forget) on the Jennings bit. A four inch one would be just the thing. So I will see what happens with that. Hopefully the Finish file holds up in comparison to a Swiss one. I put it in the Evaporust and it cleaned up very nicely. Maybe the knife file phenomenon was more European. I have been around a few years and I certainly never saw one or knew that they existed. Lots of tools are not as common in the Southeast as they are in the Northeast, so maybe that is case with a knife file. Looking forward to trying it out.


----------



## RWE

Bobasaurus: I have watched enough Forged in Fire episodes to get an idea of what is involved in forge work. I expect that is very satisfying to create something like the plane you are working on. You have my respect and admiration. Good luck with it. Those competitions are intense.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice job Allen on the blade. That event isn't advertised yet, is it? Is it the one in Oct. at Red Rocks like before? It would be great fun to get to attend one of their get-togethers. I'm over on the western side of the state so it would not be too hard to make it over for a day or two.

If that group picture they show on the home page is recent, wow, that is a lot of members.


----------



## bobasaurus

Thanks RWE and Blaster.

They did announce it for this year, though only through the email list as far as I can tell. It's on May 25th, here is the event info:

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/kez-colorado-2019-tickets-60422354890?aff=utm_source%3Deb_email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dnew_event_email&utm_term=eventurl_text

It's in a different venue this year. Last year's event was a small trial run, there weren't many competitors and it wasn't widely announced. This year they're trying to make a bigger event (and charging for tickets now, understandably).


----------



## bobasaurus

At least this gives me an excuse to use my only bridge city tool:


----------



## bobasaurus

> Bobasaurus: I have watched enough Forged in Fire episodes to get an idea of what is involved in forge work. I expect that is very satisfying to create something like the plane you are working on. You have my respect and admiration. Good luck with it. Those competitions are intense.
> 
> - RWE


Love watching Forged in Fire. It's getting popular now, I even saw a Forged in Fire brand frying pan in the grocery store today (it was ridiculously painted, even on the cooking surface… would not recommend). Its popularity is getting more people into the hobby, which is good though it also drives up the price of anvils, etc. I've seen enough episodes that I can point out most of the problems before they happen, though it's easy to be an armchair expert I guess. I can't make anything in 3 hours.

When googling some of the tempering steps today I came across an old form post by J. Nielsen with his recommendations, so I'm currently following his advise. Funny how FiF spreads even here.


----------



## JayT

That's looking great, Allen, best of luck in the competition. You'll probably be the only competitor who made their own plane and blade.


----------



## donwilwol

> Bobasaurus: I have watched enough Forged in Fire episodes to get an idea of what is involved in forge work. I expect that is very satisfying to create something like the plane you are working on. You have my respect and admiration. Good luck with it. Those competitions are intense.
> 
> - RWE
> 
> Love watching Forged in Fire. It s getting popular now, I even saw a Forged in Fire brand frying pan in the grocery store today (it was ridiculously painted, even on the cooking surface… would not recommend). Its popularity is getting more people into the hobby, which is good though it also drives up the price of anvils, etc. I ve seen enough episodes that I can point out most of the problems before they happen, though it s easy to be an armchair expert I guess. I can t make anything in 3 hours.
> 
> When googling some of the tempering steps today I came across an old form post by J. Nielsen with his recommendations, so I m currently following his advise. Funny how FiF spreads even here.
> 
> - bobasaurus


I still can't figure out how they never temper anything after heat treating. That's about a 3 hour +/- process they never show.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I thought the knife file might work really well on cleaning up the lead screw (there is a term for those, but i forget) on the Jennings bit.
> 
> - RWE


Is it snail?


----------



## RWE

That is it. The snail. I got out this morning and the knife file I have it too wide even for the large 1 inch Jennings snail. I have previously "improved the grove" with small triangular saw files and will probably use them again. Those bits sit around and the snail groves get rust particles and gunk in them. If the snail will not work, the bit will not work, so I've got to get the snail to function or lose $2 I paid for that Jennings. Still in the hunt for 3/4 Jennings (12 sixteenths by the code they use). I had previously purchased a "bit" sharpening file that has the safe edges to protect the spur, so that is an easy fix to sharpen the cutters. It is the snail that is usually the issue.


----------



## bobasaurus

> Bobasaurus: I have watched enough Forged in Fire episodes to get an idea of what is involved in forge work. I expect that is very satisfying to create something like the plane you are working on. You have my respect and admiration. Good luck with it. Those competitions are intense.
> 
> - RWE
> 
> Love watching Forged in Fire. It s getting popular now, I even saw a Forged in Fire brand frying pan in the grocery store today (it was ridiculously painted, even on the cooking surface… would not recommend). Its popularity is getting more people into the hobby, which is good though it also drives up the price of anvils, etc. I ve seen enough episodes that I can point out most of the problems before they happen, though it s easy to be an armchair expert I guess. I can t make anything in 3 hours.
> 
> When googling some of the tempering steps today I came across an old form post by J. Nielsen with his recommendations, so I m currently following his advise. Funny how FiF spreads even here.
> 
> - bobasaurus
> 
> I still can t figure out how they never temper anything after heat treating. That s about a 3 hour +/- process they never show.
> 
> - Don W


They temper in a heat treat oven overnight between the forging and handle rounds. I asked a former competitor about this once. Never shown on camera, guess it's not as exciting to film.


----------



## onoitsmatt

Very cool plane iron, Allen. Good luck in the competition!


----------



## HokieKen

Awesome Allen! I'd be interested in the tempering recommendations from J. Nielson if you have a link or something you can post  I kinda dig the Walnut and Paduak combination too. Should make a nice looking jointer.


----------



## HokieKen

RWE - as Don explained, "you suck" in this context is meant congratulatory ;-) Certainly not intended as fightin' words.

FWIW, I can turn you a nut for the 112. Unfortunately, IIRC, that has the 12-20 thread that Stanley loved so much and I don't have a tap for that or a threading tool small enough to chase it with. If you happen to have a tap though, I can make you the nut and leave it for you to tap.

Wow! A #72 gifted to your buddy? Give him a big "you suck". Then explain it before he hits you ;-)


----------



## RWE

I understood this all along Hokie. I was trying to do what one of my old professors would do: Provide a "little levity, very little levity". I am a dry sense of humor guy and often the spoken word does not communicate the lack of seriousness in my words, and certainly it gets lost on message boards.

I appreciate the offer on turning the nut. I might get back to you on this later. I am going to see if I can catch a bargain on a 12 or go through my junk parts and come up with something that will work. I have one tap to my name and I got it tap screw holes for a Benchcrafted Criss Cross Retro. I keep learning things. Never would have though of tapping screw holes in wood (white oak), but it worked just fine.


----------



## RWE

Blaster:

Wanted to ask, do the magnets cause the tools to attract metal particles?

I don't do much to cause metal particles around the bench. I sharpen saws quite a bit but I am usually careful to clean up and hit the sharpening area with the vacuum. I have only had this set up for a few weeks, but I don't anticipate any issues.

When I undertook to add the tool racks, I planned to make wooden holders. I may go back and substitute hardwood panels for the plywood and build proper wooden holders for each one. That was the idea. The hardwood panels would give me a reason to do some tongue and groove with a 45. This was to be a first stage just to get the shop back to functional. So the magnets were a stop gap along with the plywood, until I could do more serious and crafty panels. I do really like the magnets for the chisels and the brace and bits, screwdrivers etc. Very handy. They are surprisingly strong.

It turns out that I had misread the Fine Woodworking article or miss-applied the author's suggestions. He also made panels for collections of tools that related together, but that was not the standard, just a plywood backboard with holders was his norm. So my six panel board is kinda off the mark, but I was thinking that I might build a couple more panels and tack them on the wall in any open area I could find, then plug them in at the bench when the work required.

I figure I will build some wing boxes, hinged to allow saws on the door and inside of the box. One wing might be for egg beater drills. After that, I may retro back and replace the plywood panels and dress the thing up a bit. It is quite functional now and a big improvement over the one shelf and multiple commercial screw driver/tool holders that I had. The tool well at the bottom is a great addition. Pundits tell you not to build them on benches and I get it, but this one is free of the bench and works well for bulky things like mallets and cordless drills.

I probably need to dress it up a bit. It is part tool holder and part religious shrine for antique worshipers.


----------



## JayT

RWE, have you checked out New Hampshire Plane Parts on ebay? Eric's one of the best sources for parts-reasonable prices and fast shipping. If he doesn't have a part, just drop him a note and they'll let you know when one comes available.


----------



## JayT

> Love watching Forged in Fire. It s getting popular now, I even saw a Forged in Fire brand frying pan in the grocery store today (it was ridiculously painted, even on the cooking surface… would not recommend). Its popularity is getting more people into the hobby, which is good though it also drives up the price of anvils, etc. I ve seen enough episodes that I can point out most of the problems before they happen, though it s easy to be an armchair expert I guess. I can t make anything in 3 hours.
> 
> When googling some of the tempering steps today I came across an old form post by J. Nielsen with his recommendations, so I m currently following his advise. Funny how FiF spreads even here.
> 
> - bobasaurus


I like Forged in Fire, but the show has pretty much run its course, IMHO. The first few seasons, the competitors were experienced bladesmiths who could work at a high level, even under the time constraints of the show. Watch an early episode and you saw a lot of guys who'd been smithing for 15-20 years or more and quite a few that did it as a full time occupation. Now, they have people on who have been forging part time for three years or less. They just don't have the experience to know how to recover from mistakes or work with the variety of steels and techniques that might be presented. The most talented ones of the four still rise to the top, but there were smiths in the first couple of seasons that were knocked out in the first or second round that could easily win current shows.

If they want it to continue for another season or two, they need to do some champions' tourneys, where winners come back and compete against each other. Or a knockout format like game shows, where a champion can stay until they are dethroned. Something to get some more experienced people back showing what they can do instead of a bunch of beginners struggling to survive and advance.


----------



## bobasaurus

Jay, you're definitely right about FiF. The last few episodes have been pretty disappointing with the competitor skill levels. I still enjoy it though, so I hope it continues.

Kenny, it was just a couple sentences saying that he triple quenches and triple tempers his knives. I didn't bother with triple quench (I find that practice questionable), but I did do the triple temper. It supposedly converts retained austenite (bad) to martensite (good) as it cools from temper temp back to room temp. This hard martensite then needs to be tempered back again, so another cycle repeats the process.


----------



## bobasaurus

Here is the tapered profile of the blade:


----------



## HokieKen

Good info Allen, thanks. I have done single and double temper cycles and haven't seen any difference so I generally just do it once. I have triple quenched a few times. Only because a file still bit after the first two though ;-)


----------



## JayT

Blade's looking good, Allen. Do you have a surface grinder to do the flattening & taper?


----------



## JayT

> Jay, you re definitely right about FiF. The last few episodes have been pretty disappointing with the competitor skill levels. I still enjoy it though, so I hope it continues.


What would be really cool is a judge's episode, where J. Nielsen, Ben Abbott and David Baker compete against each other. Major bonus if they could get Jason Knight as the fourth.


----------



## sansoo22

Here are my newest additions. A classic No 4 and No 5-1/4 that both look to be type 15s with near perfect japaning on them. I've never tried flattening the soles and cheeks myself before. I usually buy my planes from an old retired machinist who does an awesome job. But I picked these up for $100 bucks for the pair so I figured I'd give it a go. I think I did a decent job with them.

And here is the collection of restored models I have purchased. 









Not sure why I have a 6, 7, and 8 but to be honest I use all 3. Sometimes one just doesnt feel right for the task at hand so I grab a different one. But I'm also still pretty new to hand tools and wood working in general. I guess you could say I'm hooked. Something about these old planes with a sharp blade is like therapy for me.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> *Not sure why I have a 6, 7, and 8* ...
> 
> - sansoo22


This is a safe space sansoo22. There's no reason to explain yourself or justify unnecessary tooling expenditures here.

;-)


----------



## bandit571

Wondering…IF the depth adjuster wheel from a JUNKER #9-1/2 would fit that #112?


----------



## bobasaurus

Really nice set of planes there. Looks like wispy shavings too. Are the totes/knobs rosewood or painted beech?


----------



## RWE

Bandit: I hope to hit the shop this afternoon and I will check out the parts bags a bit more. I had one depth adjuster nut that had the wrong threads, but I have not had a chance to do a more exhaustive search. The shape for the depth adjusters is very different, but it would make the plane functional at least. I don't do much metal work and I may take up HokieKen's offer if I can't conjure one. He said it is a 12-20 thread. May look for a tap and try to modify a depth adjuster

I am also going to check New Hampshire Plane parts on Ebay as suggested by JayT

RWE, have you checked out New Hampshire Plane Parts on ebay? Eric's one of the best sources for parts-reasonable prices and fast shipping. If he doesn't have a part, just drop him a note and they'll let you know when one comes available..

The knob that is on the plane is scratched up and could be replaced. Looks like someone used pliers on it.


----------



## HokieKen

> Wondering…IF the depth adjuster wheel from a JUNKER #9-1/2 would fit that #112?
> 
> - bandit571


Good thought bandit. But, IIRC, the depth adjuster is a left-hand thread? If it is right-handed, I'd say it would fit and work well. Wouldn't match the opposite nut but that may not be a concern.


----------



## RWE

I just scanned New Hampshire parts. The 9 1/2 would work if it could be tapped to the right thread orientation, right handed. The other option I saw was a 45 or 55 cutter adjusting wheels which seem to be too small in diameter for the screw (i looked at mine) but might tap to the right thread size.

The 9 1/2 looks close. I just inspected mine. It looks like the threads are finer on the 9/12.

HokieKen: You are the metal expert. Could one tap a 9 1/2 nut that is a higher thread per inch and reverse it to be right handed and 12/20. I guess it might just chew up the existing threads.

Also, I get the 20 in 12/20, thread per inch I believe, but what is the 12 for? I was measuring 9/32 in the gap between the threads and 19/64 for the full diameter. Is 12 part of some scale for English measurements or is it metric?


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> Also, I get the 20 in 12/20, thread per inch I believe, but what is the 12 for? I was measuring 9/32 in the gap between the threads and 19/64 for the full diameter. Is 12 part of some scale for English measurements or is it metric?
> 
> - RWE


The #12 screw size is extension of #2, #4, #6, #8, #10 Unified Thread Standard. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Thread_Standard
The #12 is not used much these days.

PS - the wiki table on drill sizes will also answer the question on whether existing threads can be made different.


----------



## BenDupre

> Also, I get the 20 in 12/20, thread per inch I believe, but what is the 12 for? I was measuring 9/32 in the gap between the threads and 19/64 for the full diameter. Is 12 part of some scale for English measurements or is it metric?
> 
> - RWE


https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/machine-screws/machine-screw-diameter.aspx


----------



## bandit571

12 is the drill rod size used…

Note: not all 9-1/2 wheels were left hand threaded….older ones were right handed….


----------



## anneb3

!https://storage.googleapis.com/aws-s3-lumberjocks-com/prglla0.jpg

Spent money for this plow plane cause I liked it.

Built by Ohio Tool Company a long time ago.

This one seems to be in really good shape
Even includes some blades, that might have been rusty and then cleaned.

Take it or leave it. Have no idea how to put a heading . Will learn that next time, along with just adding a 
response to a message.


----------



## Mosquito

anneb3 that's a good looking plane, I've always liked the toted plow planes


----------



## HokieKen

If the threads are about the same diameter, threading a LH thread to be RH is just gonna make a mess. It would probably thread on but not happily. That's especially true with soft metals like brass and aluminum. On the other hand, if the thread in the 9-1/2 nut is smaller, then drilling it out and tapping it would most likely give a perfectly good thread. Might not even have to drill it out with brass. Maybe just run a tap through it.

If you have a tap and a spare nut from the 9-1/2, give it a shot. If it doesn't work, I can turn you another and have it on the way in short order.

Just for everyone's knowledge bank… a 12-20 thread can be tapped out with a common 1/4-20 tap and give a good thread. Anytime I have to replace screws or threaded rods on Stanley planes, I'll just tap the holes out bigger and use commonly available hardware or easily turned hardware that I can make without spending a buncha dough on a "special" tap.


----------



## RWE

Rummaged through the shop and found my first block plane. Bought it at Sears in the early 80's. It has the plastic knob and is marked England on the body. I am a sentimental old goat, but not that sentimental. Have not tried to use it in over a decade I suppose. Hopefully I can modify the brass on it to work. The 112 nut is 1 inch in diameter and the the block plane piece is just under 1 inch, but not enough to matter.

HokieKen is correct. quarter twenty works fine on the 12/20 post. A good look don't you think.

Will have to find a tap now and cut off the post on the old block plane brass adjuster. Hopefully there is enough brass left after the post is removed. It has solid brass on the top of the nut, just not sure how thick. I guess if it gets doubtful, I can fill the hole with epoxy and drill and tap that. That side would not show.


----------



## HokieKen

Well… that's not exactly what I was saying but, if it works, it works!


----------



## RWE

Well, I just had one one of those "I am an idiot" moments.

I destroyed my 1980's plane to get the brass nut. No big loss, but I hate being wasteful. As I study the result, which should work just fine once it is drilled and tapped (the original post in it was smaller, so it will be solid brass after tapping), I studied the parts shown in the picture. Ebay and New Hampshire Plane parts had multiple 12/112 Plate Locking Brass bolts (as shown in top center of brass pieces) (may not be correct term, but you know what I mean). I should have just picked one of those up and sawed it off, then drill and tapped it. It would match the existing nut exactly, just would not have as pronounced a raised area on one side. So if anyone ever needs a 12/112 nut, that is probably the better course. I will get one from New Hampshire Plane parts and that way I will have the old block plane converted nut as a spare.


----------



## bobasaurus

Plane parts looking like modern architecture:










The bed is good and flat:


----------



## HokieKen

Cutter looks flat and shiny too Allen. Surface grinder or some kind of lapping process? That's gonna a be a beauty when your done


----------



## sansoo22

> This is a safe space sansoo22. There s no reason to explain yourself or justify unnecessary tooling expenditures here.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Ha…Thanks! I bought all 3 because they are pretty and I wanted them. The justification is really just for myself so I have reason to explain where all my money went.


----------



## bobasaurus

Thanks Kenny. Wish I had a surface grinder. I freehanded the grinds on the 2×72 and a disc grinder, while testing for rocking on a surface plate. Took ages and it's still not perfect, but close enough. I have a machinist friend who could possibly surface grind it for me, but I'm afraid of ruining the temper with overheating or otherwise screwing it up at this stage.


----------



## sansoo22

> Really nice set of planes there. Looks like wispy shavings too. Are the totes/knobs rosewood or painted beech?
> 
> - bobasaurus


All of my planes except the #4 in the top pick have rose wood handles. That particular plane also has some rough edges on the frog and the very tail of the plane body where the handle extension is. So I'm not 100% sure I dated it correctly. It fits all criteria of a Type 15 except the painted beach handles and rough casting.

That No 4 also needed all of its mating surfaces of the frog lightly lapped flat. So it was either a factory reject or i dated it wrong. Either way once i spent a few hours tuning it up its one of my favorites.

Those whispy shavings came off some Home Depot special douglas furr which has caused me nothing but trouble with all its stupid reversing grain but that #4 left it silky smooth.


----------



## P89DC

> ...upcoming Kezurou-Kai Colorado hand planing competition.


Thanks for the heads-up. I had no idea the was such a thing close by. I plan on attending to learn and watch.
Eric


----------



## bobasaurus

> ...upcoming Kezurou-Kai Colorado hand planing competition.
> Thanks for the heads-up. I had no idea the was such a thing close by. I plan on attending to learn and watch.
> Eric
> 
> - P89DC


Should be a fun event, I enjoyed going last year. If you see me with my weird plane, say hi. I tried turning a cross pin for it yesterday, but my lathe stand fell apart. Stayed home this morning fixing it, and got some more parts on my way to work to finish the repair tonight. Running out of time to get this thing made and tuned.


----------



## sansoo22

They are following me to work now…

















Still has a good portion of the logo on top. I kind of feel a little guilty putting it back to work.


----------



## chrisstef

Chub worthy ^


----------



## bobasaurus

Plane is coming along. Messed up the crosspin placement a little (forgot to account for the 40 deg bed on this thing vs my usual higher angle bed), so it has kind of a thick wedge, oh well. Now it needs opening the mouth, shaping, and tuning.


----------



## corelz125

Looks great Allen


----------



## sansoo22

> Plane is coming along. Messed up the crosspin placement a little (forgot to account for the 40 deg bed on this thing vs my usual higher angle bed), so it has kind of a thick wedge, oh well. Now it needs opening the mouth, shaping, and tuning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bobasaurus


This blows my mind. I'm happy when I can restore and tune an old Stanley. And here you are just building your own.


----------



## sansoo22

Was browsing fleabay while I wait for my dog to get out of surgery and purchased my first plane just to put on a shelf and look at. I have no idea what it is and I don't think the seller does either. Got it for $70..may have over paid but I've seen uglier decorations cost more.










Once it shows up I will take some better picks. Its early no matter what it is. Has the old school arched logo on the iron. Looks like a No 51 spoke shave but the handles aren't quite the same. They are flattened out where the wood handles rest.


----------



## bobasaurus

> This blows my mind. I m happy when I can restore and tune an old Stanley. And here you are just building your own.
> 
> - sansoo22


Thanks a lot. Making a Krenov-style laminated plane body like this is fairly straightforward, you should give it a try. The blade was the difficult part, I was struggling with sharpening it yesterday. Flattening the back is impossible for a rough-ground surface this wide, so I had to ruler trick (and even that took forever). Much too wide for my veritas honing guide, so I had to use my kell honing guide which just barely fits. It requires a platform coplanar with the stone surfaces, so I had to improvise one from some plywood and other scraps:


----------



## corelz125

Looks like some customizing to turn a spokeshave into a draw knife


----------



## JayT

Allen, good ingenuity on sharpening a blade that wide.

In the homestretch on my current plane build. This weekend included final tuning of the mouth. Guess this will have to work.


----------



## bobasaurus

Nice job Jay, looks like a small opening. I'm trying to get the blade sharp before mouth tuning, as it can change dimensions a little on my tapered blade as I remove material. The kell guide works decently well, though isn't very comfortable to hold. Might put a magnet on the blade for a better grip.


----------



## HokieKen

That looks totally unacceptable JayT. You should probably sell that one at a deep, deep discount.

To me.

)

Looks awesome man. Been watching that sweet puppy unfold on Instagram. You guys should all subscribe to jtplaneworks on instagram. Jay posts some really cool in progress shots that show just how much effort goes into one of those planes!

Allen - flattening the backs of plane irons and chisels has to be one of the shop tasks that I despise the most. I have to say, my WorkSharp 3000 makes it a lot less torturous…


----------



## bobasaurus

Kenny, I tried using a fancy circular disk grinder but I kept slightly dubbing the edges. It doesn't have a speed control, which might be part of the problem. Can you go straight from your worksharp to a diamond stone and have it be flat all the way across?


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I can Allen on most things. Definitely on plane irons. Sometimes I have trouble with holding narrow chisels consistently and I have found that with really thin plane irons it can be difficult depending on how I apply pressure. But for most everything I've used it for, it's worked really well.

I did a blog post comparing working up new chisels on diamond plates vs the WS if it's of interest.

*Edit to add*: On the WS, I rest the heel of the blade on the edge and lay the blade down onto the platen so the business end is the last thing to make contact. Doing it any other way almost invariably results in a dubbed edge.


----------



## JayT

> That looks totally unacceptable JayT. You should probably sell that one at a deep, deep discount.
> 
> To me.
> 
> )
> 
> - HokieKen


Sure thing, I'll do the Kohl's pricing method. Mark it at double a competitive retail price and then put it "on sale" at 40% off.

In all seriousness, this one will likely end up for sale. I've had a couple inquiries, but neither one is following up, so unless one of them steps up in the next week, it'll be available.

I will say that this is the best performing smoother I've made to date. slightly beating out the recent spalted one. (I may do a bit more tuning on that one) The little curly maple mini smoother is the reigning champ, though. That one you can just speak to and have it take a half thou shaving with a mirror finish left behind.


----------



## theoldfart

The latest woodie, a chamfer plane in the sale of Edward Preston.










I have yet to try it out, needs a sharpening.


----------



## DLK

> Allen - flattening the backs of plane irons and chisels has to be one of the shop tasks that I despise the most. I have to say, my WorkSharp 3000 makes it a lot less torturous…
> 
> - HokieKen


I agree with this, especially for molding plane irons. In fact I think its the only good use for the worksharp.


----------



## bobasaurus

Plane build is coming along. Good thing, as the competition is tomorrow. Having some trouble sharpening the blade consistently, it has tenacious burrs that are hard to remove. I tempered it a little harder than usual, might have been a mistake.


----------



## HokieKen

Too late for another temper cycle? The plane looks fantastic )


----------



## bobasaurus

> Too late for another temper cycle? The plane looks fantastic )
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks. I don't want to risk warping it at this point. Maybe after tomorrow. Going to try diamond lapping films tonight.


----------



## HokieKen

Good luck man. Unfortunately, that's one of those things it's hard to be helpful with from a distance…


----------



## RWE

Kevin: Chamfer plane looks very cool. Can you do some more photos after you sharpen it and show different angles, shavings etc.

Allen: Good luck with the competition. I have a Hock blade and a dried section of Persimmon waiting now for three or four years. Never get enough time. I was going to do a laminate plane with Walnut sides and Persimmon sole. I belong to the Popular Woodworking video site and a fellow there has a tutorial on making a laminated smoother. I guess I am just giving that Persimmon proper drying time.


----------



## theoldfart

RWE, will do.


----------



## JayT

Wishing you the best of luck tomorrow, Allen. Plane looks great!


----------



## bobasaurus

Thanks Jay. I'm having a bear of a time tuning it up. Despite what I said earlier, I'm going to try tempering it a little softer and re-sharpen.


----------



## RWE

Allen: How did the competition go? Maybe you are still competing. Update when you get the chance.

Don W: I just perused your site on Ohio tools planes. I ran across a very roached out #4. It had a poorly made replacement tote. I believe it would clean up, but it had a nice layer of rust. The frog, the iron and the body looked pretty cool. Anyway I passed on it. No pictures taken. I may get a chance to go back and pick it up. *Are they very rare? * Saw a #5 on Ebay for $59 buy it now. It was the only currrent listing for a metal body Ohio plane, so I guess they are somewhat rare.  I would have to fashion a tote. Seems the tote is one of the more interesting features of the plane. What is your opinion or anyone else's opinion on whether a corrugated bottom roached out #4 Ohio tools plane is worth the effort!!!


----------



## donwilwol

You need to define "worth the effort".

Here was one of my projects today.


















Yes, my bubble is a bit off center.

If the Ohio is just a normal #04, it's value is around the same as a Stanley, maybe even a little less. If it's a Mark's patent, double or triple that.

So if your looking for bragging rights it's well worth it. If you're looking for anything that resembles an hourly wage, leave it for us crazies.


----------



## RWE

I guess my bubble is a bit off center as well. I have yet to sell a plane. I try to restore and refurb those that come my way that are "worthy". At some point I may sell some, but right now it is all about the fun of restoring them and using them a bit.

I don't believe the Ohio #4 that I saw was a Mark's patent model, but I will check it again to be sure. I have long battled the notion that planes that I find in the Southeast are probably not as rarely occurring in the Northeast. So I fight the idea of getting excited over something novel to me that may be common as dirt elsewhere.

So my better self refrained from picking up another project. My not so better self tells me that I might have made a mistake. I simply asked because I do not feel good on passing up a "worthy" plane. If an Ohio is equal to a Stanley as far as build and quality, then I may get it to have bragging rights or appease my own "plane obsessed demons".


----------



## bobasaurus

> Allen: How did the competition go? Maybe you are still competing. Update when you get the chance.
> - RWE


Ended up coming in second place, same as last year. There were all of 4 competitors, so it wasn't exactly a great accomplishment but I had fun. The winner of our little Denver Kez was actually the winner of the previous big Kez in California, he managed a ~30 micron shaving very consistently across the board. Mine was kind of spotty and averaged 42 microns. It was a bit annoying that during practice I was getting better shavings… maybe I was nervous and tired or the blade was getting dull. My plane had a lot of excess friction, I think due to the padauk sole. Next year I might make one out of hard maple or beech.

Here's a shaving from the winner's kanna:










He was able to just push it with a single thumb and take a perfect shaving, amazingly well setup.

They also demonstrated yosegi, Japanese joinery, kumiko, and kanna setup. Fun day:


----------



## sansoo22

I think I found my new go-to smoother. An English made No 4-1/2. Picked it up because they have a heavier casting and I find I like heavier planes. I'm going out on a limb and saying this was made around the same time as a Type 16. The brass hardware, lateral adjuster, and frog all match my Type 16 No 4.









Japanning was in good shape and had been cleaned when I got it. Gave it a bath and polished up all its fancy bits. Handles were already dark so I just cleaned them up with some 00 steel wool, a light coat of Minwax esspresso, and then lacquered with semi gloss.









I pulled a pile of full width shavings off of some Douglas Fur but this was the thinnest. Nothing as cool as Allen is doing with 42 microns but for a plane noob I will take it.

@Don - I think i slipped in to the category of being one of the crazies. In the last 2 weeks I have worked on all of these. Could be as simple as a cleaning to a full restore or anything in between.








I feel like i stole the No 51. Has a Hock iron that's still factory sharp and i got it shipped for $45.


----------



## sansoo22

Almost forgot…this isn't a plane but it's plane related…my NOS Stnaley No 185 burnisher with the original box. Picked this up from Bob Kaune for just a few bucks more than the Phil Lowe version. Nearly pulled the trigger on the Phil Lowe but glad I practiced a little more Google-Fu first. I might be a weirdo but having a Stanley burnisher to put a hook on my scrapers for the 12 and 112 just feels right.


----------



## donwilwol

Allen, second place is still pretty cool. That is some nice plane work. Not bad for a saw guy ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Well, I say there was measurement error Allen. You were robbed! ;-) Very cool that you got it made and performing that well that quickly!


----------



## bobasaurus

Man, I just double-checked the results and the winner was actually at 22 microns, I must have misheard. Very impressive. My plane was not as nice, sadly. I think a lot of it was friction on the sole from the padauk. Might have been my sharpening too, the blade was challenging to get sharp.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Were most of the planes wooden body or metal? What wood was being planed?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sansoo, that burnisher is awesome!


----------



## bobasaurus

> Were most of the planes wooden body or metal? What wood was being planed?
> 
> - bigblockyeti


Everyone had kanna except for me. Kanna bodies (dai) are typically Japanese white oak. The wood being planed was Port Orford cedar, which is similar to the Hinoki wood used originally.


----------



## sansoo22

> Sansoo, that burnisher is awesome!
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Thanks. I had been searching for quite some time to find one in good shape. Bought one on fleabay that had a professional photographer take the listing photos i guess. It looked WAY better on line then what i got.

Funny story about the new one is when I talked to Bob on the phone I made it very clear I was going to use this tool. He was like duh thats what they are for. I got scolded by an antique dealer for mentioning "restore" and "use" when asking about a table full of rusty planes.


----------



## bandit571

Shooting plane?









Nah…Stanley No.3c….Type 11/12….White Oak was a bit rough sawn…









bandsaw blade has way too much set…


----------



## DLK

You can "stone" the blade to reduce the set, see https://woodgears.ca/bandsaw/stoning.html


----------



## Mosquito

May be a long shot, but does anyone happen to have a Chaplins Improved 1210 base they would like to part with? I recently acquired one that I couldn't say no to, but at some point a long time ago it must have been dropped, as there's some cracks in the base casting behind the tote, and a good dent. (and it has a hang hole in the front)


----------



## donwilwol

> May be a long shot, but does anyone happen to have a Chaplins Improved 1210 base they would like to part with? I recently acquired one that I couldn t say no to, but at some point a long time ago it must have been dropped, as there s some cracks in the base casting behind the tote, and a good dent. (and it has a hang hole in the front)
> 
> - Mosquito


You may have to dig deep for that one


----------



## Mosquito

lol hence the very first part about being a long shot 

Or if someone had a Chaplin's Improved 1210 with broken/missing tote/knob that would be fine too lol


----------



## 33706

What's the overall length of a #1210, Mos? I'm thinking of one I saw that might still be in the dark corner of an antique shop here. Did the cutter have an offset slot?


----------



## donwilwol

> What s the overall length of a #1210, Mos? I m thinking of one I saw that might still be in the dark corner of an antique shop here. Did the cutter have an offset slot?
> 
> - poopiekat


That sounds a ilike a Siegley or Hahn. You probably should seek that out.


----------



## HokieKen

Mos', is your Chaplins a user or a collector? If it's a user, some talented brazer/welder might be able to mend those cracks and fill that hole and grind it all flat and smooth for ya. If it's worth the expense…


----------



## sansoo22

So I impulse bought a couple sweetheart planes the other day and finally got time to grab some pics. They were a little pricier than most i buy but the No 2 i just had to have for some reason.

First up is the No 2. This one set me back a bit but i love it. I think it is a type 13 or 14 but im honestly not sure on that. Lever cap looks to be original and not a No 3 ground to fit.

































And next up is a No 78 with a sweetheart iron that looks to be complete with all its parts. No idea on the age of this other than its the last version of the SW logo so 1923-1932 if its the original iron.


----------



## HokieKen

Good haul there Sansoo! For me, the no. 2 is just for braggin ;-) Too small for my fat mitts! But, that 78 would definitely be a user. In fact, it was on my short list until I got my 45. It's still on the "keep an eye out" list.


----------



## sansoo22

> Good haul there Sansoo! For me, the no. 2 is just for braggin ;-) Too small for my fat mitts! But, that 78 would definitely be a user. In fact, it was on my short list until I got my 45. It's still on the "keep an eye out" list.
> 
> - HokieKen


The No 2 is almost too small for me. I got it for bragging rights but it may see some use on difficult grains. I couldn't get the dealer to come off $300 for that no 2. But i got them to go $50 on the No 78 and throw in a Type 9 No 4 that was in rough shape for free. I may have overpaid but I walked out the door with 3 planes and a smile so whatevs.

The Type 9 (far left) cleaned up better than I thought. Going to restore and sell that one to recoup some funds. The 5-1/4 (center) was scored the same day on the other side of the city with its original box and will also be going up for sale. Gotta pay for them bragging rights somehow.


----------



## donwilwol

The orange frog on the #2 makes it quite desirable. And because it a thin layer over black, it's usually preterm off, your is not. It's a bit of a collector piece, so I'd suggest using it carefully.

Over paid is very subjective. Having something in your hands and wanting it, you sometimes have two choices, pay for it now, or pay for the time to find the next one. It's all a about your perception of cost.


----------



## sansoo22

> The orange frog on the #2 makes it quite desirable. And because it a thin layer over black, it s usually preterm off, your is not. It s a bit of a collector piece, so I d suggest using it carefully.
> 
> Over paid is very subjective. Having something in your hands and wanting it, you sometimes have two choices, pay for it now, or pay for the time to find the next one. It s all a about your perception of cost.
> 
> - Don W


Thanks Don. I take what I call the Jay Leno approach to these. He has one of the worlds largest car collections and each one is set up to be driven and I think he has personally driven every last one of them. That No 2 will be set up and tuned user ready for sure. It may never touch a project and may just get used with a scrap piece in the vise once or twice a year just for the fun of it. After all what's the fun in having all of these if you don't get to experience what they were made for.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm with you sansoo… That's why I've made videos about my Fales Patent and Phillips Patent plow planes, including using them lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Same here, I use them all!


----------



## theoldfart

Tools were made to be used, knowledge is gained by using them. You don't learn a damn thing with them sitting on a shelf except how to dust!


----------



## donwilwol

Well, while I don't disagree with using that #2, and most tools for that matter, I do think you can learn a lot from them without actually cutting them into wood. And depending on their rarity (which most are not) I think it's irresponsible to risk losing a piece of history if it's one of the last known or one of only a few known pieces.

And of course There is a difference between trying or testing a tool and actually using it.


----------



## corelz125

Don how are the Sargent 407's compared to the Stanley #2's?


----------



## donwilwol

> Don how are the Sargent 407 s compared to the Stanley #2 s?
> 
> - corelz125


The difference between Stanley and Sargent is purely a personal preference, although I do believe Sargent planes came out of the factory better tuned. If you feel you need a frog adjustment screw and the hole in the blade is really better at the bottom of the slot, then go for a #2. If you want a plane made that was ready to use even 100 years ago, go with the Sargent.


----------



## corelz125

The 407s don't seem to come around very often.


----------



## sansoo22

Just finished cleaning up a 5-1/4 I picked up last week that spent its last working years as a paint scraper before going into storage. Spent a lot of time with mineral spirits and some plastic non marring tools to get this one clean but the results are pretty awesome. Its almost to clean to keep as a user. It may get listed for sale for someone else to enjoy.


----------



## RWE

Did you japan that 5 1/4 or did it still have the full coverage. Looks awesome. I don't have any fractional planes. I am afraid to get started on trying to collect them and fortunately I never see them in the wild. Looks like a type 16.


----------



## sansoo22

> Did you japan that 5 1/4 or did it still have the full coverage. Looks awesome. I don t have any fractional planes. I am afraid to get started on trying to collect them and fortunately I never see them in the wild. Looks like a type 16.
> 
> - RWE


All the finishes on this are 100% original. That's why i was so excited about it. Was covered in paint and "other" splatters of who knows what. I was for certain that it would have corroded the nickel on the lever cap or the japanning but it came out super clean and super intact.

I lucked in to a couple 5-1/4s in good shape and settled on an English made 4-1/2 as a user. A 5-1/2 is on the top of my wish list but the No 2 i just bought put the wish list on hold for budgetary reasons


----------



## HokieKen

4-1/2 size is my personal favorite. If I could only keep one plane, that would be it.


----------



## RWE

In my opinion, if a tool does not have some white paint splattered on it, it is not really an antique. A few drops of white paint is a must. I would guess that 90% of the things I have collected, saws, chisels, planes etc. have white paint drops dried on them. The only thing I can figure is that the old timers who used those tools did not like to paint and were just sloppy at it. Also, why only white. Must have been door jams, picket fences and occasionally some crown moulding.


----------



## JayT

sansoo, that 5-1/4 looks great! I have the 1/2 fractionals, but not a 5-1/4 size. Partly because my cast iron set is early round sided Bedrocks and they never made a 605-1/4, partly because I don't like how a #3 fits my hand, so don't see a reason to have a longer version.

I'm actually considering selling most of my roundy 'Rocks, though. Too many are just sitting in the till collecting dust-there are several of them that I can't remember the last time they were used and I know I've never used the 607. The only one that gets consistent use is my 606 as a jointer.


----------



## sansoo22

Ken - I purposely built the tool well on my small workbench to fit my 4-1/2. Its my go to plane now and the English castings were heavier which i personally enjoy. Its like a freight train of smoothers. Small knots do not concern it once it starts moving.

RWE - Red is another color I find splattered on my planes. I just assume they were all used to build barns. That 5-1/4 above had red, white, and green on it. So i figured it was used to build an old white farm house with green shutters and a red barn. Much like the first farm i ever lived on. And now im getting sentimental and want to keep it.

JayT - That's awesome to have so many Bedrocks. I've looked at quite a few but every time i go to purchase one my wallet seems to be missing. I think its hiding from me when it sees the price of them.


----------



## JayT

Here's a family shot from a few years ago. The 607 has been replaced (this one is a type 2, I now have a type 4 with 90% original japanning) and when the pic was taken, I didn't have a 605-1/2 yet. Obviously need to do a new pic to show how much the kids have grown.


----------



## sansoo22

^^^ Drool. Well this is the forum to post pics of the family. I have run out of bench to post all of mine in on shot anymore. Its a good problem to have i guess


----------



## RWE

JayT: I went with a different approach. I picked up an early 608 and it is my favorite plane. I wanted more Bedrocks because I love how it worked. Budgetary issues made me go the Keen Kutter route. So I have a K3, K4 and K5 which are the round sided Bedrocks with Keen Kutter labels, as you probably know. The only 7 I have is a Siegley and it is a bit fiddly to use. I am missing a 6 and a 7 in the Bedrock/KK series.

The truth is, I never have used my Stanley 6's (both very early models). I jump from Jacks to the 608. Maybe I am missing something, but if you are edge jointing or flattening a board, I am not sure a 6 or 7 is better than an 8. I figure 7's are popular because 8's are harder to come by. I have one of the early 6's in the process of being cleaned and refurbed. Once I get it going, I may learn to like a 6. The first one I got, had a worn out iron, no length left, and I just never got into it.

Still, all in all, I want a 7 or a 607, just to have one that I can try out a bit. I love the look of the Siegley 7 but it is light, not much mass.


----------



## HokieKen

For me, my Record 07 has seen minimal use since I got my Millers Falls 15 (5-1/2 size). I just recently rehabbed a Millers Falls 18 (#6 size) and with that in the mix, the only use I see in the future for the 07 is when I need to get something really, really, really flat. Personally, I've always felt the 6 & 7 sizes were kind of redundant anyway. No practical need to have both. So why do I have both sizes? I think anyone reading this thread knows the answer ;-)

I'll cross post this from the Show your Restoration… thread since these are two I've hunted for for quite a long time


----------



## sansoo22

I have all Baileys including a type 11 No 6, type 10 no 7, and type 12 no 8. To be honest I love and use all 3 of them. It kind of just depends on the task at hand. The bulk of the flattening duties on the workbench i just built was all done with the No 6.

I really like my 6 and feel the 7 was kind of redundant now that i have an 8. Altho if you have a lot of stock to join and don't need the extra length of the 8 the 7 does use less human energy.

Is there a need for all three…I will defer to Ken's answer on that.


----------



## RWE

The thing I like about the 8 and to some degree, a transitional jack size that I have, is that the transitional is so smooth because of the wood on wood thing. The 608 has so much mass, is well set up up, and once you start it, it just goes. I think you would have to work a 6 more to make the same cut. The larger size seems to require less effort. Now I do not use it to hog out wood, just to flatten. Love the 608.

I am keeping an open mind and will give my "new to me" Stanley 6 some work, once I get it finished. If I ever get my hands on a decent 7, I will probably learn to like it as well.


----------



## JayT

I occasionally use my 608 on large tasks, but a #6 size is long enough to get things really flat. The lighter plane is just easier to use for extended periods, especially with chronic shoulder issues. Old baseball injury, which would be funny if it wasn't actually true. I used the 608 to flatten my workbench and really felt it the next few days. Not in a sore muscles that haven't been used way, either, but in a "You just did more damage to that joint" kind of way.

RWE, if you would like a good #7 size that will fit in with your current line up, I can post pics of my 607 and see if you are interested. I'd like to sell it and would prefer it end up in the hands of someone that would actually use it, instead of posting on ebay and having it end up who knows where.


----------



## RWE

JayT: I would be interested in seeing it. Post the pictures or Private Message me and I can give you my email address. Thanks.

Also, I am dealing with tennis elbow. I developed it when raking my yard last November. Inflamed ligaments and 6 months later I continue to eat Advil. Fortunately, I am about to outrun it. Everyone says it is a a 6 month to a year process.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…









Hmmm..









Hmmm..









#5, #5-1/2, #6, #7….what ever fits the size the best…of the work being done..


----------



## RWE

Bandit:

Nice set of planes. Thanks for the pictures. Your rack for your braces gives me an inspiration. I have four braces with different sweeps and a couple of hand drills. I may try your approach on storing the braces with that upright piece to hold the handle. I have them flat on my wall now and can only get two fitted in the space I have. May add a spot on a saw/plane till for them.


----------



## bandit571

Drills are now in a new till…hammers are now stored in the old drill til..2 rows of them.


----------



## RWE

Bandit:

Do we have a brace and bit forum here? I picked up some bits that are certainly rare around here, but may be common in the northeast. I was trying to get an idea about the time frame they may be from. If you are in the know about braces and bits I will shoot you a Private Message. I got a couple of small spoon bits and several that look like a cross between spoon bit and conventional auger. Spoon shape with twist at the top. A couple have a tiny little snail on the twist at the top.

I posted on the "Humble Hand Brace" page but it seems very inactive.


----------



## HokieKen

Try the Vintage Drills of Your Dreams thread RWE.


----------



## bandit571

called a "Center Bit" usually had a big cutting spur on one side.

There IS a thread on drills…Vintage drills of your Dreams….Might see if anyone is home, over there…

Have TWO No. 7 planes…The Stanley No. 7c….and the older Ohio Tool Co. No. 0-7 smooth sole. That No. 6 is a Stanley Type 10, No. 6c. The Stanley No. 5-1/2 is a type 17. Not sure which Stanley No. 5 is in the photos Had two of them, one a "c" model, one a smooth sole….could never tell the difference between them. That big Stanley No. 8 is a type 7, I think. In that plane til, there is also a Millers Falls No. 11, type 2. Size of planes I use is determined by the size of the work I am doing at the time…


----------



## HokieKen

If you're ever interested in unloading that MF #11, I'd take it off your hands Bandit  I want a #8 and a #11 to round out my lineup. And eventually a #22 to replace my 07.


----------



## corelz125

JT you like the roundy rocks better than the flat tops?


----------



## JayT

> JT you like the roundy rocks better than the flat tops?
> 
> - corelz125


My first real hand plane was a roundy rock 605 I picked up for $1 at an auction and restored. That led into getting more and more of them. I found a few locally (605, 607 & 608) and others on ebay. Never used a flat top, but I don't think it matters. The only "advantage" of a flat top is the ability to adjust the frog without removing the iron. Once I've gotten a frog adjusted, I have never moved one, so that "feature" has no value as far as I'm concerned. Plus, my favorite Stanley logo is only found correctly in the era of the round sided ones and I like the lever caps on them better than the generic one line caps on the flat tops.

Truth be told, I can't tell the difference between a well-tuned Bedrock and a well-tuned Bailey in use. The Bedrocks I've restored have taken much less time to tune up on average than the Bailey's however. Whether that is because of the design or not, I don't know. I read an article once where the author posited that Bedrocks were likely better manufactured because, as Stanley's "premium" line, the more highly skilled machinists were used to make them which led to better tolerances not because the design was inherently better.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

I anyone is passing through Yuma Arizona on holiday to/from southern California this summer?

Might want to stop by this antique shop?
https://yuma.craigslist.org/atq/d/yuma-large-group-of-collectable-wood/6876542147.html










Yuma is on Arizona & California border, 200+ miles west south west from Phoenix on Interstate 8. It's almost perfect half way between San Diego and Phoenix.

Know nothing about the place, just noticed an old CL posting. 
Best Luck finding plane of your dreams!

Cheers!


----------



## JayT

RWE, here's pics of the 607. It's a corrugated type 4 with the two line cap and the japanning is original. Knob and tote are obviously replacements, walnut knob and granadillo tote. The plane was in great shape when I got it except for the wood, so I just replaced instead of repaired. If you're interested, PM an offer.


----------



## theoldfart

RWE, if Bandit don't show any interest in those auger bits I'd like to see them.


----------



## corelz125

My #6 type 6 doing a little flattening


----------



## corelz125

605 for $1 thats highway robbery. Nice looking 607


----------



## sansoo22

> Also, I am dealing with tennis elbow. I developed it when raking my yard last November. Inflamed ligaments and 6 months later I continue to eat Advil. Fortunately, I am about to outrun it. Everyone says it is a a 6 month to a year process.
> 
> - RWE


I'm 6 months in to severe tendinitis in my right elbow. It got to the point i couldn't even straighten it all the way for a couple weeks. Apparently you shouldn't be hanging cabinets or lifting full sheets of 3/4 ply while your elbow hates you.

Anyway my doc thinks it was running hand planes on a crappy old wobbly bench that caused it. When you don't keep your elbow in line with your shoulder and flatten your new workbench top i guess it causes problems. I ended up taking the winter off of wood working to heal up a bit. Came back at it this spring, finished up the bench, and am just about back to normal. It will still remind me when I do something dumb but those days are getting farther and farther apart. Be patient and just treat it right and you will pull thru.

On a side note a bum elbow and a proper bench made me fall in love with hand planes all over again. I was forced to learn proper technique and when combined with the new bench my planes just glide over work pieces now.


----------



## JayT

corelz, here was the $1 605 after de-rusting and before restoration.










Handyman cap, wrong iron, hornless tote and who know what for a knob. When I bought the plane at the auction, I didn't know anything about hand planes, much less what a Bedrock was, I just wanted a rusty piece to use for learning electrolysis, and it was very rusty and cheap. It was researching what the 605 meant that led me to Lumberjocks, the original HPOYD thread, learning to restore planes, using them and a whole new addiction that now includes building.

I later picked up a donor #5 that had decent wood and a correct blade and found a cap, too. In the end, I have about $40 in the plane. Still a bargain.


----------



## RWE

Kevin: I posted on the brace and bit forum. I would appreciate it you would look at it and comment. I keep finding out how dumb I am. On the Miter Box forum, I got excited about what I figured was a 40's or 50's Power Miter Saw until it was pointed out to me that they were not invented until the mid 60's. So my post on bits may show more ignorance, but I am here to be educated. thanks

*RWE, if Bandit don't show any interest in those auger bits I'd like to see them.*

https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/27861#reply-5217043


----------



## HokieKen

Is it just me or is this an awesome idea?


----------



## sansoo22

> Is it just me or is this an awesome idea?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


I've seen a handful of 101 conversions but I've never seen a low angle conversion. Would like to see a pic of someone holding that thing cuz finger clearance looks a bit suspect but I kind of want one.


----------



## bandit571

Looks down right painful to use…..even less room than a Stanley No. 1 plane. I think I'll keep my #60-1/2, thank you. Since I just sharpened it up, the other day…


----------



## corelz125

You got lucky with that JayT first glance I see why it was only going for a $1. Your going to sell that one or it has sentimental value now?


----------



## JayT

Planning to sell all of the Bedrocks, though the 606 will be the last to go. If anyone on this thread is interested in one, let me know. The 607 is spoken for, and I'm wiilling to part with the 604, 604-1/2, 605, 605-1/2 & 608, at this point. I'm going to keep a user set of metal planes, but have decided to keep my V&B's instead of the Bedrocks. If/when I ever find a V&B 906, then the 606 will be sold at that point.


----------



## DLK

Here is an interesting handle.


----------



## sansoo22

Today's accidental yard sale haul. I was out house shopping and the neighbors were setting up for a yard sale. Saw some older tools in the garage and asked if they would mind if i took a look a day early. I gave $80 total for all 3 of these. While not collector quality, once cleaned and tuned they should make great users. I think the 2 nicer looking ones on the left are going to get packaged together as a "new woodworkers" special. A 4 and a 5 is a good place to start into planes I think. The other no 5 is pretty ugly but no pitting and all the hardware turns freely.


----------



## bobasaurus

Finally got around to posting my Kez plane, you may have already seen it in the projects:



Sansoo, that's a nice trio of planes. Do you know the type study number? Looks like painted tote/knob and kidney shaped lever caps.

Don, very interesting handle on that transitional.

Kenny, that is a pretty sweet little mod. I kind of want one.

At the local tool club I was given this interesting lignum vitae blank for an infill (or possibly a plow plane), trying to decide what to do with it:


----------



## RWE

Random plane photo (homage to Bandit)

New meaning to setting the *Record* straight

I got the 043 to plow groves in the sides of small boxes. I really like it, works well. Suits that purpose.

I stumbled over the Jack at a local antique mall. I have watched Paul Sellers pull out his Record plane on so many videos, I had to have it. It is a Record Marples. From what I remember on my research, it is a 70's plane. Yikes you would think, but it is actually quite a nice plane. It reminds me of a Sargent in how solid and together it feels. From what I have read, the quality of the Record made planes did not suffer as much as the Stanley's did after the 60's.










Siegley 7


----------



## sansoo22

*bobasaurus* - I want to say, in order, they are a type 19 no 4, a type 16 no 5, and a type 18 no 5. The first 2 in the pic have rosewood totes and the knobs look to be rosewood covered in 50yrs of grime. The frog, lateral adjuster, and lever cap match the types above.

I use these sites in order for most of my type identification. If anyone has some others please share
https://woodandshop.com/identify-stanley-hand-plane-age-type-study/
https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/27/stanley-bench-plane-typing/
https://www.rexmill.com/planes101/typing/typing.htm

The last no 5 is definitely some other hardwood. It doesn't look to be beach but its a light colored hardwood with a pretty nice grain pattern. I'm thinking these might look good sanded to bare wood with a nice antique bri-wax finish on them.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Sansoo - thanks for those links. I use hyperkitten's flowchart/questionnaire (https://hyperkitten.com/tools/stanleybenchplane/datingflowchart.php#Types%201-20) which will eventually lead you to this page: https://hyperkitten.com/tools/stanleybenchplane/typestudy.php#Type%2016


----------



## sansoo22

> Sansoo - thanks for those links. I use hyperkitten s flowchart/questionnaire (https://hyperkitten.com/tools/stanleybenchplane/datingflowchart.php#Types%201-20) which will eventually lead you to this page: https://hyperkitten.com/tools/stanleybenchplane/typestudy.php#Type%2016
> 
> - Kent


No problem. Glad I could be of help. I've tried the Hyperkitten site but I do much better with pictures than words. I've always been a very strong visual learner. Thanks to the links that provide lots of pics I can usually type a plane without reference fairly closely now. Type 16 and 19 give me a bit of trouble still. Especially if im not allowed to take it apart before i buy it. The Y shaped frog base is what i look for. The way i see it even if im wrong about a type, anything below a 20 is worth bringing back to its former glory so someone else can have a nice clean reliable user.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Type 16 and 19 give me a bit of trouble still. Especially if im not allowed to take it apart before i buy it. The Y shaped frog base is what i look for. The way i see it even if im wrong about a type, anything below a 20 is worth bringing back to its former glory so someone else can have a nice clean reliable user.
> 
> - sansoo22


Me too, sort of. My experience tells me that the y-shaped frog base started with type 18s; I have some 18s with and some without. Most times the planes with y-shaped frog base seem to me to have subtly thicker sides/walls with an edge that is just a bit flatter than the older castings. FYI, all my Type 18s (5, 5C, 6C, 7C and a 3C in the mail) were made in Canada, although I recently sold a 5C that was made in the USA.


----------



## sansoo22

Kent - My favorite smoother is an English made 4-1/2 that has all the same characteristics of a type 19 minus the rosewood handles and a much beefier casting. My tendinitis elbow doesnt appreciate picking it up but its like a freight train of smoothers. Get it started and get out of its way. I just finished building my first workbench out of dimensional lumber and the 4-1/2 gave very few cares about any of the small knots it came across.


----------



## donwilwol

Here is all of the type studies I know about

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2017/02/05/dating-hand-planes-start-page/


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## HokieKen

RWE - I have a Record 07 of that same vintage. It is indeed a very nice plane. It just doesn't match all the black and red of all the Millers Falls planes in the till with it ;-) But, the blue enamel, brass hardware, recessed name on the lever cap and whatever the wood is for the tote and knob make for a really nice looking plane that feels really solid and works quite well.


----------



## RWE

Hokie:

Interesting history on Record planes. It seems that (working from memory here) post WWII, there was a movement by the government to get folks to buy British. So the government helped Record get established/or grow and ran interference for them so they could succeed. The British market was flooded with Stanleys and they wanted a local company to compete and not have to import planes. We all know that British steel was of a great quality. The Stanley plane patent had expired, so the Records are complete knock-offs, but the tooling and fit and finish was as good or better than the early Stanleys. Seems they kept up the good work, at least through the 70's. I don't know if the "The Brit" posts here, but he may want to chime in and give us his perception from that side of the pond.

I know I would like to get my hands on an early post WWII Record to check it out. I was lucky to stumble over that one, and it was the only Record in the wild that I have ever seen. They show up on Ebay but usually have to be shipped from England. I bought the 043 on Ebay and had to pay that bigger shipping charge. Fortunately it was a small and lightweight package.


----------



## sansoo22

RWE - I was researching Record planes the other day when I saw one on Etsy I wasn't familiar with. Came across this site http://www.recordhandplanes.com/production-periods.html during my research. I really like how these planes look.

Then I came across this image and my bank account had a stroke at the thought of picking up a full set along with all my baileys.








Something about that finish says "I'm hardworking and well built but i also like to be fancy"


----------



## RWE

Nice link sansoo22. Will study it some more later. I like my Record Jack but like you, I don't have the bank account to build a full set. I am in the process of culling the herd a bit. I am going to settle on a set of Bedrocks and K series Keen Kutters for the main set. After that, I may get rid of a few extras. I don't need 5 smoothers, really, but they keep following me home.


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## corelz125

How about that siegely rwe?


----------



## sansoo22

> Nice link sansoo22. Will study it some more later. I like my Record Jack but like you, I don t have the bank account to build a full set. I am in the process of culling the herd a bit. I am going to settle on a set of Bedrocks and K series Keen Kutters for the main set. After that, I may get rid of a few extras. I don t need 5 smoothers, really, but they keep following me home.
> 
> - RWE


I went a good 4 or 5 months not finding anything good and then this spring i keep finding deals. The first yard sale season has just about wrapped up here in KC. By July its too damn hot for that non sense. I think the folks posting on craigslist who didnt like my earlier offers couldn't move them at yard sales/swaps either and are hitting me up wanting to see if my offer is still good. I've lucked into a few and got the others from old CL and OfferUp posts. Minus the #2 and #78 i got at an antique dealer which i shouldnt have gone to in the first place cuz i knew better.

The problem is I clean and tune them to be ready for someone else to use and enjoy but they are so damn pretty I want them for my own.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Is it just me or is this an awesome idea?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


Wow! It sold for $166.09.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Some folks were dreaming of owning a while bunch of hand planes!

Had a cabinet shop owner retiring auction close today.
https://www.bidspotter.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/timed/bscari/catalogue-id-arizon10003

Sold 7 stanley planes for ~$150
https://www.bidspotter.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/bscari/catalogue-id-arizon10003/lot-61586b89-5081-46b8-b319-aa68017ecc90

6 Stanley transisitional planes for ~$220:
https://www.bidspotter.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/bscari/catalogue-id-arizon10003/lot-01dfb94f-41ce-41f6-a2cb-aa68017ecc8f

They had a pile of spoke shaves, and some T-bevels and Squares that sold for reasonable prices too. 
Most surprising was lot of antique Stanley rules and levels that sold for $350 with tax and premium? 
But that's another thread….

Keep dreaming!


----------



## corelz125

Some other good deals that were in that auction. Good price for those Sargents


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane photo…just puttering along…


----------



## bandit571

This isn't too bad as a jointer…









But, likes to do tear-outs as a smoother…


----------



## sansoo22

Freshly de-rusted and tuned 9-1/2









Doing a little test run









Close up the mouth and take nearly transparent full length shavings with a block plane. Never done that before. Think my sharpening skills are getting better.









Joining his friends…don't ask why i have them all. I can barely justify it to myself


----------



## sansoo22

Bandit - I've been considering a low angle jack plane but I must say I'm biased because of all the "this is the only plane you will need" type articles floating about the interwebs. "Jack of all things" tools usually end up flying out of my shop at high velocity. And usually towards the fat smug squirrels in my yard.

Altho i did recently watch a video where a 50 degree iron was used in a low angle jack to tackle highly figured grain in walnut and it did a remarkable job. So that has me interested in one again.


----------



## bandit571

Bevel getting fine tuned…


















Stanley 45 vs a knot….rebate work..









Junior Jack works nicely, too….Millers Falls No. 11, type 2


----------



## HokieKen

I'm jealous Bandit. I need a MF 11 to fill out my till. They aren't common enough to be affordable either…


----------



## WhoMe

Been a long time since I have been on lumberjocks but I stumbled upon a friend who has a type 2(1898 - 1899) bedrock #2 in really good shape. Almost a full length blade, knob and tote in great shape with no cracks/chips, sole has no cracks. I have been looking for anything that could give me a range of what it could be valued at. I looked on eBay at early bailey #2's but i can only estimate that it is worth more. Anyone's have any ideas?


----------



## JayT

602's don't show up often enough to really get a good idea. My best guess would be around $1000, give or take. Don W would probably have a better idea.


----------



## HokieKen

I was thinking the same number as JayT. I don't have any hard data to back it up but that's probably a pretty good guess.


----------



## sansoo22

Here it is…the last one to round out my set. I now have a #2 thru #8 including fractional numbers with the addition of my new 5-1/2. The only real odd ball in the group is my 4-1/2 which is an early English variant but I like it because its heavy.









Needs some TLC for sure but that japanning is near perfect! Unfortunately it gets to be the ugly duckling until I move at the end of the month. Close on the new house Tuesday and then its time to pack up the shop…and i guess furniture is important to bring too.


----------



## WhoMe

Jay, Hokieken, that plane is just prior to the '602' castings by 1 year. It states 'No. 2'at the knob. It still has the wedge for the frog but only one frog adjustment screw to move it forward and back. I had read that the round side bedrocks aren't as desired but I don't know. Not sure how that changes the value. I was thinking it would be around a #2c Bailey at $400-500 but i don't know. I'll post a few pics when I can. Thanks for the estimates.


----------



## sansoo22

> Jay, Hokieken, that plane is just prior to the 602 castings by 1 year. It states No. 2 at the knob. It still has the wedge for the frog but only one frog adjustment screw to move it forward and back. I had read that the round side bedrocks aren t as desired but I don t know. Not sure how that changes the value. I was thinking it would be around a #2c Bailey at $400-500 but i don t know. I ll post a few pics when I can. Thanks for the estimates.
> 
> - WhoMe


Here is an archive I found that may be of some use.

https://www.antiqbuyer.com/All_Archives/STANLEY/archive-bedrocks.htm

That archive seems to suggest the earlier rounded side bedrocks are of a little more value. Unfortunately they dont have dates to let you know how recent the sale was.


----------



## JayT

> Jay, Hokieken, that plane is just prior to the 602 castings by 1 year. It states No. 2 at the knob. It still has the wedge for the frog but only one frog adjustment screw to move it forward and back. I had read that the round side bedrocks aren t as desired but I don t know. Not sure how that changes the value. I was thinking it would be around a #2c Bailey at $400-500 but i don t know. I ll post a few pics when I can. Thanks for the estimates.
> 
> - WhoMe


Yes, the casting says No 2, but since it's a Bedrock, the Stanley model is still 602. Types 1 & 2 both had just the single number on the casting, the 60X came later. According to the best Bedrock type study out there, the only difference between and Type 1 & 2 is dates on the lateral lever. Regardless, your friend has one of the earliest 602's and they are hard to find. When I've (rarely) seen round sided 602's sell, they have sold for around the same price as a Bailey #1, worth much more than a Bailey #2. That's where I'm pulling the estimate from.


----------



## corelz125

Does your friend have a number in mind for the 602?


----------



## WhoMe

Sansoo, congrats completing the series. I myself just need a #2c to complete my goal.


----------



## WhoMe

Jay, thanks for that. I read up on the blood and gore site. The lateral only has one date so that made it the type 2. The only difference is the logo on the blade. It is the T logo (1909-1912). I know Stanley would pull parts from various parts binds for the #1 & #2 so I don't think that is any big deal. 
He has no idea of the monetary value. In just trying to be a good friend and give him some info on it. 
Thank you guys for all the help.

Corelz, that plane is pretty dear to his heart, I know he is going to keep it.


----------



## sansoo22

> Sansoo, congrats completing the series. I myself just need a #2c to complete my goal.
> 
> - WhoMe


Thanks! Its a complete user set besides the #2 with the orange frog that I was advised not to use. I don't have smooth and corrugated in all sizes either. My #2 thru #5-1/2 are all smooth bottom and #6 thru #8 are all corrugated. I wish they were all of the same type but they vary from a type 10 to a type 19. Either way I'm excited to move to the new shop space and build a proper till for them all.

Good luck on the hunt for a #2C. I have a feeling that one is going to dent the wallet a tad. I found one on ebay sitting at ~$175 with 21 bids in so far and 8d left on the timer. Will be interesting to see what it goes for.


----------



## donwilwol

I don't think I've ever seen a #2 Bedrock sell. I haven't been buying and selling enough lately to keep up on prices but if I had to guess I would think $1k would be on the low side


----------



## bandit571

waiting their turn…









among others….might get the hang of using this one….someday


----------



## RWE

Bandit: Hate to confess my ignorance, but which low angle plane is that?


----------



## bandit571

Wood River No. 62


----------



## corelz125

So he's not really looking to sell the 602? I can't blame him they would have to pry that out of my cold dead hands if it was mine.


----------



## donwilwol

A few projects, including this Shaw Patent #9. All Sargent


----------



## donwilwol

Ever try welding a piece of high carbon to a used up blade? Experiment underway.


----------



## HokieKen

Wow, the grain on that Shaw is really nice Don! I have considered welding some O1 to a couple of badly pitted irons but never did it. So I'll be curious to see how it goes


----------



## bandit571

had this happen one year…









Ohio No. 0-7, with the Globe logo…..friend of mine wire welded it back together….will try to get a photo of the "after", later.


----------



## Lazyman

I just googled welding high carbon steel out of curiosity and it says to preheat the steel before welding. Is that part of your experiment?


----------



## corelz125

Nice looking tote Don. Your half way there with the bevel to weld the new piece on it. Your going to use stick or wire?


----------



## sansoo22

DonW - I think a write up this experiment would be awesome. My welding skills are rustier than some of the planes I restore but i would be willing to give this a shot with some guidance.


----------



## P89DC

Over the last few decades I've accumulated a set of user grade type 19 corrugated. Nothing super expensive but all great quality. They're all thick castings and flat as measured on my granite surface plate. I don't have a No 5 1/4 corrugated and doubt I ever will based on it scarcity/price (I've got a 5 1/4, it's a smooth type 18). Same goes for a No 2, And the No 6 is a type 16 but I'm looking ;~)

Behold the user grade 8, 7, 6, 5 1/2, 5, 4 1/2, 4, 3 with their fancy after-market blades and breakers:


----------



## sansoo22

Eric - That's a nice set of planes you've got. I really envy guys that put in the time to get a set of the same type that all match like that. At a glance the No 6 looks the same…I get 16s and 19s confused anyway.

I never even knew a 5-1/4c existed until I saw a type 16 for sale the other day at $275. That's almost as much as I paid for my #2.


----------



## donwilwol

I'm using stick, it's all I have right now. If I need mig or Tig my son-in-law is a welder, and a good one.

I didn't preheat. And I wound up with a stress crack. Lesson learned.

The 5 1/4c is the rarest Stanley bench plane made According to Blood and Gore. Definitely not worth $275. The going price is under $100 I believe.


----------



## P89DC

> Eric - That s a nice set of planes you ve got. I really envy guys that put in the time to get a set of the same type that all match like that. At a glance the No 6 looks the same…I get 16s and 19s confused anyway.
> 
> I never even knew a 5-1/4c existed until I saw a type 16 for sale the other day at $275. That s almost as much as I paid for my #2.
> 
> - sansoo22


Thanks for the kind words. Truth be known, I ended up with a set of corrugated type 19 by accident. Starting in 1988 I looked for user grade Baileys priced for a guy with a young family and I took a fancy to corrugated. First one was the No 7c, paid $45 for it at the flea market in Phoenix by the Candy Store at Cave Creek and Union Hills.

Back then nobody wanted clean and straight type 19s, they all want the rusty, warped type 8s at twice the price (incoming!). Once I had all the easy ones I found the No 4.5c, 5.5c, 6c and 8c were cheap and plentiful when they were type 19s. I can't bring myself to buying a 2C for >$200. Once a plane makes it to Lie-Nielsen price levels I'll just get an LN.

I didn't realize I had a matched set until last week when I saw you talk about your set from 2-8. I went out to my shop and looked and there they were. I'm selling off all my extra type 16 and 19 so I can by some Lie-Nielsen products.


----------



## P89DC

> The 5 1/4c is the rarest Stanley bench plane made According to Blood and Gore. Definitely not worth $275. The going price is under $100 I believe.
> 
> - Don W


If you have a 5 1/4c for $100 I'll buy it.

It seems there's a gap in the No 5 1/4 casting in that it wasn't updated with the ridge until the type 20 was released in the 60's. I have a type 15 No 5 1/4 casting with a type 18 diagonal adjuster. (The casting doesn't have a ridge or the Y which makes it a type 15.) I've never seen a type 16-19 No 5 1/4 casting with a ridge. Type 20 No 5 1/4 has the ridge but no ridge before type 20 (I don't now if it has the Y).


----------



## sansoo22

Do you mean the ridge under the frog like this one has? Sorry best pic I have of it before it got cleaned and tuned.









Here it is assembled. I believe it to be a type 16.


----------



## P89DC

> Do you mean the ridge under the frog like this one has? Sorry best pic I have of it before it got cleaned and tuned.
> 
> Here it is assembled. I believe it to be a type 16.
> - sansoo22


No ridge and no y-shape under the frog, the base casting is a type 15. But the lever cap has a kidney which started with type 16. I can't see the "STANLEY" stamp on the lateral adjustment lever, is it vertical or horizontal? The vertical stamp started late in the type 18 era as did the y-shape under the frog.

Horizontal "STANLEY" on the lateral adjustment lever with a standard knurling on the adjustment nut, a base casting with a ridge and no y-shape under the frog should be type 16.

No Y-shape:









Y-shape:


----------



## CaptainKlutz

LOL, all this discussion on 5-1/4 got me curious, had to run out shop and see what kind I had?
Carp….
Just a lowly type 20 smooth bottom? 
I am no expert when it comes to figuring out age, but blue paint is dead give away.









.
Now I remember:
Bought it from a local college when they closed the wood shop. They had two dozen of them for sale. Only bought one as I thought blue paint = = not very good plane. Had just started buying and using hand planes at time. Didn't realize that I should have bought ANY and ALL working Stanley planes I can when they are priced @ $20 each. Never make that mistake again.

Cheers!


----------



## donwilwol

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/03/03/the-5-14-story/


----------



## donwilwol

> The 5 1/4c is the rarest Stanley bench plane made According to Blood and Gore. Definitely not worth $275. The going price is under $100 I believe.
> 
> - Don W
> 
> If you have a 5 1/4c for $100 I ll buy it.
> 
> It seems there s a gap in the No 5 1/4 casting in that it wasn t updated with the ridge until the type 20 was released in the 60 s. I have a type 15 No 5 1/4 casting with a type 18 diagonal adjuster. (The casting doesn t have a ridge or the Y which makes it a type 15.) I ve never seen a type 16-19 No 5 1/4 casting with a ridge. Type 20 No 5 1/4 has the ridge but no ridge before type 20 (I don t now if it has the Y).
> 
> - Eric


I've never seen a type study for the 5 1/4. I doubt they'd follow the #4 studies.


----------



## donwilwol

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=stanley+5+1%2F4C&LH_Complete=1

As eBay typical. A bit of a range


----------



## bandit571

iron from that Ohio #0-7…repaired…meh..









shame…









had a nice logo, too.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Thanks for the kind words. Truth be known, I ended up with a set of corrugated type 19 by accident. Starting in 1988 I looked for user grade Baileys priced for a guy with a young family and I took a fancy to corrugated. First one was the No 7c, paid $45 for it at the flea market in Phoenix by the Candy Store at Cave Creek and Union Hills.
> 
> Back then nobody wanted clean and straight type 19s, they all want the rusty, warped type 8s at twice the price (incoming!). Once I had all the easy ones I found the No 4.5c, 5.5c, 6c and 8c were cheap and plentiful when they were type 19s. I can t bring myself to buying a 2C for >$200. Once a plane makes it to Lie-Nielsen price levels I ll just get an LN.
> 
> I didn t realize I had a matched set until last week when I saw you talk about your set from 2-8. I went out to my shop and looked and there they were. I m selling off all my extra type 16 and 19 so I can by some Lie-Nielsen products.
> 
> - Eric


I understand that completely. As my set continued to grow, I discovered that I had several Type 18s, so I eventually made the decision to go for a complete set of them. Like you, there's something about the corrugated soles that speaks to me. That's also quite fortunate for me. Because there is NO Type 18 2C or 5 1/4C, I will eventually get off cheap on my "complete set". Just to slow down my acquisition binge, I've also opted for only Canadian-made planes. I've never even seen a Type 18 Canadian-made Type 18 5 1/2C, so it could be a while before I'm done.


----------



## sansoo22

It has standard knurling and horizontal stanely on the lever cap. But as DonW mentioned the 5-1/4 is an odd duck. And it doesnt help that many of these have had replacement parts added over the years.

If you want to be confused here is a comparison of both of my 5-1/4s








(This is during various states or restoration for a few different planes i was doing at the time)

Far left is the 5-1/4 pictured a few posts up. Next to it is a 5-1/4 with a key hole lever cap, standard knurling on the 1-1/4" depth adjuster, a sweetheart iron, no patent dates, single ridge in the casting, and an ogey frog with vertical stanley in the lateral adjuster. Tote and knob are both rosewood. I have no idea what type that one is.

Since many of the parts are interchangeable with a #3 its possible it has received a few replacements. Or if these were marketed at schools its possible Stanley just threw it together with what they had on hand and sent it out the door.


----------



## P89DC

I wonder if a significant percentage of 5 1/4 were used by school programs with parts swapping and perhaps some weird configurations are the result?


----------



## P89DC

> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=stanley+5+1%2F4C&LH_Complete=1


Thanks, I'll have to pay attention!


----------



## corelz125

Don you used 3/16 7018? One of the Lincoln hd 140 machines might be the way to go. Not as much heat. Did it crack while it was cooling?


----------



## donwilwol

> Don you used 3/16 7018? One of the Lincoln hd 140 machines might be the way to go. Not as much heat. Did it crack while it was cooling?
> 
> - corelz125


Probably not. I'd have to look, but 6018 comes to mind.

I'm not really sure when it cracked. I was multi tasking at the time, so I probably wasn't giving it the attention I should have been.


----------



## corelz125

Can you clean it up and try again?


----------



## HokieKen

Could you forge weld it with the crack Don? I would think it would be tough to get it flat but may be worth a stab?


----------



## donwilwol

> Could you forge weld it with the crack Don? I would think it would be tough to get it flat but may be worth a stab?
> 
> - HokieKen


I'll try something. It's another lesson from hard knocks


----------



## corelz125

Hey it's something to do with those used up irons. Not much else to do with them. The pre heat and post heat should make a difference on the next one.


----------



## donwilwol

This Sargent came to me as just a base and frog. (I still need a cap) which was what the initial welding experiment was about. I decided to take it one step further.and make a chip breaker.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Good work Don. The chip breaker looks good too.


----------



## Mosquito

I blame Wayne for this…


----------



## bandit571

Here is something…strange..

Was in Menard's the other day, killing time, waiting on the Boss…walked through the tool section…sitting beside a Stanley SB4 "plane" was a Irwin/Marples/Record No. 4…...for $20….Pass. had already spent my allowance on a few sticks of Pine 1×6s…and other trinkets…

Irwin/Marples now selling Record planes?


----------



## sansoo22

When you've gone too far down the rabbit hole…









I'm in the process of moving to my new house and was packing up some of the plane collection, which is scattered all over my tiny one car space, and found out I had a few extra No 5s for reasons i guess.

Turns out I have a few extra no 4s as well…and probably others hidden in cabinets and tool boxes. I blame Don W for this.


----------



## theoldfart

You can't have too many 5's


----------



## corelz125

You can use a few more #5 sizes. Bedrock 605, Sargent 414, Millers falls 14, V&B,


----------



## sansoo22

> You can use a few more #5 sizes. Bedrock 605, Sargent 414, Millers falls 14, V&B,
> 
> - corelz125


I REALLY like the look of the Millers Falls planes. I purposefully don't look at them or I will end up with a set.


----------



## HokieKen

> I REALLY like the look of the Millers Falls planes. I purposefully don t look at them or I will end up with a set.
> 
> - sansoo22


Well, they're the best planes ever made. Ever. So you should.


----------



## bandit571

Just doing what it does best…









taking a bowed drawer front into flat….so a Sargent #408 can clean up..









Just another day at the office….


----------



## corelz125

There's not many Millers Falls in my stock pile so far. Bandit do you sell off some of the herd or keep a rotation going? It seems all your pics there's a different plane.


----------



## bandit571

Keeping a rotation going, as to what size is needed…


----------



## bandit571

There are a couple "extras" to this bunch..









There are 2 No. 8s, 2 No. 9s, a No. 11 and two No. 14s….they seem to work, for me…


----------



## HokieKen

I have 8, 9, 10, 14, 15 and 18 in the MF line. Just need an 11 and 22. Maybe 7 and 24 someday if I stumble on good deals.


----------



## sansoo22

> I have 8, 9, 10, 14, 15 and 18 in the MF line. Just need an 11 and 22. Maybe 7 and 24 someday if I stumble on good deals.
> 
> - HokieKen


Looks like I'm already making room for some MF planes. Just sold 5 of my various extras yesterday. One guy at work picked up a 4, 5, and 9-1/2 from me for a pretty sweet deal. He had been looking primarily at LN or LV planes until he saw some of my restorations. My boss almost bought one of the spare #5s just because he thought they looked awesome. He's not even a woodworker. That was a mini moment of pride for me considering I just got into hand tools last November.


----------



## bandit571

Have to keep an eye out for those "special" handles Millers Falls used…


















usually found on the Type 4 models….last of the "Premium" planes they made…


----------



## corelz125

Kenny do you see the 24s very often up for sale?


----------



## HokieKen

Nope very rarely. There's one on Ebay right now for $300 if you're interested. Little too rich for my blood ;-)

Edit to add: From what few 24's I've seen on Ebay, that price isn't out of line. I imagine it will get gone at that price.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm not real picky about the type of MF planes as long as it's not type 5. If it has the three-point lever cap and flat head screws, I'll take it. I would like to get my hands on at least one that has the raised "Millers Falls" cast around the knob though. If it has a "CBG" appended to the number, let it ride…


----------



## corelz125

Thats out of my price range also. That's why there's no shiny bronze planes in my collection.


----------



## donwilwol

> You can use a few more #5 sizes. Bedrock 605, Sargent 414, Millers falls 14, V&B,
> 
> - corelz125


Don't forget the x5, and Sargent#14, You really need a couple of those


----------



## controlfreak

I hope this is the right place to post on this. I came across this plane when I was picking up my $150 jointer for an additional $25. 
1) What is the best way to restore?
2) one part says Stanley and the base has Bailey, is this a combination of two or is this original?
3) The rear handle has a worn crack in the handle should I attempt a repair?


----------



## waho6o9

https://www.timetestedtools.net/category/hand-planes/hand-plane-how-tos/

Here ya go HTH


----------



## corelz125

Go for it controlfreak that will clean up nicely. Repairing that tote is pretty easy. Don I'm still looking for an x series metal plane


----------



## controlfreak

> https://www.timetestedtools.net/category/hand-planes/hand-plane-how-tos/
> 
> Here ya go HTH
> 
> - waho6o9


Here I go again down the rabbit hole. Thank you this has great detail.


----------



## controlfreak

> Go for it controlfreak that will clean up nicely. Repairing that tote is pretty easy. Don I m still looking for an x series metal plane
> 
> - corelz125


What do you think about about the tote fix? Make a clean cut to glue mating the the two pieces?


----------



## waho6o9

You're welcome!


----------



## sansoo22

> What do you think about about the tote fix? Make a clean cut to glue mating the the two pieces?
> 
> - controlfreak


I would probably trying sanding first to see if you can get both parts flat and parallel. If you intend to reuse the original hardware you have a little wiggle room but ideally you want to remove as little material as possible before gluing both parts together.

Don W and others on here have far more experience than me so hopefully they chime in. You might even search the blogs here to see if anyone has done a write up on a tote repair. Yours looks like a pretty straight forward repair job.

Side Note: The Time Tested Tools site is how i got hooked on hand planes. I like tools and i like history. Don put them both together and I went from 3 planes to over 30 in short order.


----------



## HokieKen

Depends on whether you want the repair pretty or just functional controlfreak. If you just want functional, I'd probably drill both pieces and epoxy in a steel rod for strength. If you want it pretty, make a fresh, clean cut on both pieces, glue a piece of matching wood between than rasp/sand/scrape it to shape.


----------



## corelz125

If you cut it it becomes a lot more work. See how it fits back together and if it lines up nice you can epoxy it back together. Depends on what you like you might replace it.


----------



## bandit571

Part of this morning's pickings….









( spent $9 for the pile…)
Was this 220 clone….toe has a hanger hole, cap iron is broke….









Still have to clean and sharpen the iron….marked as Made in USA….silver cap iron is a spare I had handy…
Hey, it looked better than the "Home Depot/ Buck Brothers #110 that was sitting in the box with it…


----------



## HokieKen

I'd have give $9 for those perfect handles alone Bandit. I love those drivers


----------



## HokieKen

This will go up for sale on LJs then on Ebay but I thought I'd throw it out in this thread first. Stanley 140 skewed rabbet block plane. No side piece. In good shape and works great. Nickel plating on the cap is about gone and I painted it when I got it. I'm thinking $45 shipped. Will happily entertain any trades as well if anyone is interested


----------



## bandit571

Block plane? Worthington, No. 2200W….
The 2 Perfection handle drivers are marked IRWIN USA

Wasn't too bad of a morning…


----------



## corelz125

the vise grips I would of paid $9 just for those.


----------



## donwilwol

For the tote controlfreak, I'd use epoxy, tinted black or brown, drill some small hole (like I show on the fixing tote website page) and clamp it up. If it doesn't come out right you can always cut it after, but if the epoxy is tinted, it blends fairly well.

I actually had to force myself to stop buying those perfect handle.screwdrivers, although I'll still buy the ones with the wings. Those are just to cool to pass up.


----------



## controlfreak

> For the tote controlfreak, I d use epoxy, tinted black or brown, drill some small hole (like I show on the fixing tote website page) and clamp it up. If it doesn t come out right you can always cut it after, but if the epoxy is tinted, it blends fairly well.
> 
> - Don W


Thank you Don. I am more more into the functionality than creating perfection so I was planning on the epoxy route. I will remove the handle this weekend to see how bad the wear is from use while broken. I read up on the rust removal but I am confused on what is best method. It seems like there are so many choices, Rust Cutter, Evapo-rust,baking soda etc.. I think I will try to do a WD-40 clean up first to see better what I have to start with before I make any bad decisions. I have been wanting a flattening plane for a while now.


----------



## donwilwol

This is by far the method I use most. I never soak a plane anymore. That's not to say each method doesn't have a place in some tool restoration, and everybody has a favorite, but here is what I do

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/02/27/hand-plane-restoration-by-the-no-soak-method/


----------



## OleGrump

Yesterday, I finally obtained a Stanley # 113 Compass Plane. WOO-HOO !!! This is something that's been on my "Want List" for many years now. All she needs is a bit of clean up and sharpening, as she's been sitting idle somewhere for quite awhile. No abuse, just neglect.
If I can get the camera and the computer to cooperate for once, I'll post photos of my new baby.

"If you don't have one, whatever "IT" is, you must NEED one…… LOL


----------



## theoldfart

Grump, now you need a twenty!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Congrats!


----------



## HokieKen

Good score Grump!


----------



## donwilwol

> "If you don t have one, whatever "IT" is, you must NEED one…… LOL
> 
> - OleGrump


Or 2, or 3


----------



## OleGrump

Thank you, Fellas ! Bin wantin' ona these fer a LONG time now, and was finally able to git me one. (at a pretty good price, too!) Hey Old Fart, you're right, I DO need a Twenty now. Don't have one, so I must NEED it, right…??? Cain't have the 113 gettin' lonely in the tool chest…….


----------



## donwilwol

You definitely need these https://www.timetestedtools.net/2017/08/04/circular-planes/


----------



## corelz125

Don no Keen Kutter 115?


----------



## donwilwol

> Don no Keen Kutter 115?
> 
> - corelz125


Not yet!


----------



## OleGrump

Looking at all that man candy, I can do no better than to quote Tim Allen: "Ho, ho ho-ho-ho!!!" Yeah, OK, I can also add Daffy Duck; "Da-roo-ell, da-roo-ell…" Thank you for sharing the great photos and interesting information. Loved it!


----------



## corelz125

I guess I have a K 57 1/2. Need a few parts for it.


----------



## summerfi

My wife picked these up at a yard sale this morning. I know you guys back east see thousands of these, but wooden planes aren't that common in the west. For that matter, vintage hand tools of all types are hard to find here. The only reason I'm posting these is because they appear to be user made, which I thought was at least a little cool. The only markings look like owner's initials.

The first is a simple skewed 3/4" rabbet made from beech. It looks like it may have had a fence at one time. It is stamped JJS.










The second one is a little more interesting because of the added ruffles and flourishes. It is not beech, but I'm not sure what it is. Perhaps maple. It is a very light weight wood though. This one is stamped GH. Unfortunately the iron is missing.


----------



## DLK

The second plane is a Dutch plane, i.e from the Netherlands.


----------



## summerfi

Cool Don. What are the characteristics that tell you that? I am 1/4 Dutch, so that is interesting.


----------



## donwilwol

> Cool Don. What are the characteristics that tell you that? I am 1/4 Dutch, so that is interesting.
> 
> - summerfi


The wedge is the most prominent. I'm sure there are others but I don't know them.


----------



## DLK

The l finger grooves at the front , top indentation, the wedge and the general shape.

I think the wood is European Ash, but I am not certain.

I will try to find out more, but that GH you see looks to me like JN as in J. Nooitgedagt. But there is no crown stamped on it. So if it is J. Nooitgedagt it would be an early one. Nooitgedagt made tools and ice skates. It is probably just the owner's mark.

The expert is David Lundqvist at Facebook: Rhykenology: The Study Of Wooden Planes. I will ask there.

Because I moved to Holland (Michigan) I have been collecting Dutch tools when I find them. Much to my surprise I don't find them often. I have 3 molding planes a wooden smoothing plane, a folding ruler (found in Australia) , and a set of new (ebay) Nooitgedagt chisels and gouges.


----------



## summerfi

Thank you Don. I Googled pictures of Dutch planes, and everything you said rings true. I'm pretty sure the initials are GH because they are stamped in multiple places, some of which are clearer. Do you think this could have been made in America by Dutch immigrants? My Dutch ancestors settled in New Amsterdam in the 1600s. They owned a 24 acre farm in what is now Manhattan, NY.


----------



## DLK

David Lundqvist writes me:

So, its definitely Beech. And definitely Dutch.
The marking looks like a owners mark, or perhaps a "fake" JN for J. Nooitgedagt.

Maybe it is so dry that it feels light weight.



> Thank you Don. I Googled pictures of Dutch planes, and everything you said rings true. I m pretty sure the initials are GH because they are stamped in multiple places, some of which are clearer. Do you think this could have been made in America by Dutch immigrants? My Dutch ancestors settled in New Amsterdam in the 1600s. They owned a 24 acre farm in what is now Manhattan, NY.
> 
> - summerfi


I think you should just claim it was made by your great great grandfather.


----------



## RWE

I have a general question about wooden planes for anyone who would like to comment. Like Summerfi out West, where I live in the Southeast, we probably have fewer wooden planes in flea markets and antique malls etc.

I had read years back that single iron wooden planes generally predated double irons. I did some more research online and saw that might not be the case. However the more recent research opined that single iron planes might be better crafted since they were favored by artisan woodworkers versus double irons which were more mass market average Joe craftsman oriented.

I had never seen a single iron plane in what is now probably 5 to 7 years of combing flea markets and antique malls and such. I found one the other day. It had a Sandusky iron.

The weird thing was that my grandchild awoke from a nap and my daughter called me back to the car where she was waiting and I could not get to a purchase decision. No picture, no good inspection. However the vendor was primarily an antique book seller and I think the plane will be there when I get back to that area.

The fact that it has a Sandusky iron may make it a "mass market" type of plane and not as nice a quality plane as maybe a British or American artisan plane maker's product.

I also read that the single iron wooden planes (this one seemed to be a jack/short jointer size) had a higher bed angle.

I will pick it up next trip,* but I wondered if any of you wooden plane users had opinions on the whole single iron/double iron thing.* I have a fleshed out line of metal planes, plus more extras than a rational man would need, so adding some woodies may be the next rabbit hole.

One of my favorite planes is a Sargent Transitional Jack. I have a large Jointer that is also very useful and it has a very thick double iron stamped "Sheffield". I always considered it an American product, but it is Beech and could be English. I know we imported irons from England for the early American made planes.

*Anyone who has used single iron woodies let me know your thoughts.*


----------



## DLK

*Bob* David Lundqvist would like you to measure your Dutch plane. He writes:


> Donald does the owner have access to a metric rule?
> Your typical Nooitgedagt plane is about 280mm long, 80-90mm tall.
> 100mm toe to bed on the sole and a 48-degree bed.
> A typical Dussing (PD stamp) is 270mm long, 90mm tall, 105mm toe to bed on the sole with a 50-52degree bed


----------



## summerfi

Don, I am not a Facebook user, but I was able to view David Lundqvist's comments on the Rhykenology page. After looking at the plane again, I can confirm that it is, in fact, beech. What threw me off is that the grain is oriented 90 degrees from most planes, so that the face of the plane is flat sawn. In regards to David's information on plane measurements, I found the following, which doesn't exactly fit either of the makers he mentioned.

length 265mm
height 80mm
toe to bed (measured at centerline of sole) 90mm
bed angle 48 degrees

Back to the first plane I posted, the 3/4" rabbet. I don't know why I didn't see this before, but once I looked closer I can see a maker's mark.

Union Factory
Warranted
Chapin-Stephens Co.

Google tells me they were a Connecticut company from 1901-1929, so I assume this would be a fairly common plane.


----------



## DLK

I think I own well over 100 wooden molding planes now, but I don't belive I own a single double iron plane. I know I have not restored one.


----------



## RWE

There may be a bit of terminology confusion. Double iron on a full sized, not molding plane, wooden plane is my term for having an iron with a cap/stiffener iron screwed to it. Maybe it would be termed a chip breaker, but it is the most common configuration for full size wooden planes that I run across. The single iron is my way of defining that it has no stiffener. Maybe single iron planes are common as dirt in the North East. I don't know.

So this is the first full sized wooden plane with a single iron that I have seen. I was wanting to know if any wooden plane users had thoughts about their relative merits and experience with the two classes of wooden planes.

Cue Don W.


----------



## DLK

O.K. yes I thought you meant a molding plane with two irons. Sorry. Yes there is a debate on double iron versus single iron. The double iron is not necessary if you have a thick iron.


----------



## donwilwol

Double iron wooden planes are quit common. It is really more about what they were used for. If you start looking in older catalogs that have wood planes you will often see a choice, single or double iron for several models.

Single irons were typically (and its a very loose "typically") were more for rough work and you will often find them cambered. Double irons were more used for smoothers and jointers or for planes used for panel work.

It's all generality though, even some boutique plane makers today still use a single iron. I like the chip breaker technically, and I mean chip breaker in the true form, not the later stiffener type, but I guess they all stiffen to some degree.


----------



## bandit571

random plane pictures…from today's follies…









Jointer?









Jointer..









Or scrubber?









Sargent No. 408 smoother…


----------



## corelz125

What's the top one there a #8?


----------



## bandit571

From the top..
Stanley No. 8, type 7
Millers Falls Mo.14, type 2
And the Sargent No. 408….might be a T-5?


----------



## DLK

> Don, I am not a Facebook user, but I was able to view David Lundqvist s comments on the Rhykenology page. After looking at the plane again, I can confirm that it is, in fact, beech. What threw me off is that the grain is oriented 90 degrees from most planes, so that the face of the plane is flat sawn. In regards to David s information on plane measurements, I found the following, which doesn t exactly fit either of the makers he mentioned.
> 
> length 265mm
> height 80mm
> toe to bed (measured at centerline of sole) 90mm
> bed angle 48 degrees
> 
> - summerfi


Sorry I missed your reply. I have posted your measurements, and we will see what David says. To me it looks close enough to be a J.N. plane or a copy of one.


----------



## JayT

> There may be a bit of terminology confusion. Double iron on a full sized, not molding plane, wooden plane is my term for having an iron with a cap/stiffener iron screwed to it. Maybe it would be termed a chip breaker, but it is the most common configuration for full size wooden planes that I run across. The single iron is my way of defining that it has no stiffener. Maybe single iron planes are common as dirt in the North East. I don t know.
> 
> So this is the first full sized wooden plane with a single iron that I have seen. I was wanting to know if any wooden plane users had thoughts about their relative merits and experience with the two classes of wooden planes.
> 
> Cue Don W.
> 
> - RWE





> Double iron wooden planes are quit common. It is really more about what they were used for. If you start looking in older catalogs that have wood planes you will often see a choice, single or double iron for several models.
> 
> Single irons were typically (and its a very loose "typically") were more for rough work and you will often find them cambered. Double irons were more used for smoothers and jointers or for planes used for panel work.
> 
> It s all generality though, even some boutique plane makers today still use a single iron. I like the chip breaker technically, and I mean chip breaker in the true form, not the later stiffener type, but I guess they all stiffen to some degree.
> 
> - Don W


Can't help as much on vintage planes, but do feel qualified to comment on the merits of single vs double iron, since I build both. As with most things, there are advantages and disadvantages both ways. Single iron is easier to build and tune, while double irons are more versatile. To follow up on Don's observation about smoothers and jointers being double iron, that fits wit the more versatile. The cap iron allows the plane to function differently-with a typical 45 degree bed, set the cap iron back a bit and it functions like a single iron bedded at 45. Set it close and you greatly increase the angle the chips navigate to work difficult grain. To get a similar effect on a single iron plane, you have to have a 55-60 degree bed.

My personal preference is for double iron in most instances. Having built quite a few of each, though, I now have a better appreciation for the increased difficulty in construction. And consider that is with modern manufacturing technology which allows me to buy double irons from Ron Hock that work beautifully out of the box. When those were hand forged and adjusted, it would have added even more to the process. I'd be willing to bet that there was a difference in cost for vintage planes between ordering one with single iron or double iron, both for the plane build and the additional time in making the iron set. If you are limited in budget or space, however, it would be worth it to spend the extra.

The boutique makers are producing planes for customers who have multiple planes and set ups. As such, a dedicated single iron plane which is easier to build and adjust isn't a big deal. Add in that single iron planes just have a cleaner, smoother look and builders who are just as concerned with aesthetics as performance are going to lean that way. Need a different set up? Grab a different plane. A well tuned single iron plane works beautifully, it just becomes more of a uni-tasker instead of more of a multi-tasker like the double iron plane.


----------



## RWE

Thanks for the feedback Don W and JayT.

I am getting a fuller picture now. My chief thought when I saw the single iron plane was that it must be an earlier plane, since I had read that single iron planes preceded the use of double iron planes in the Colonies and England.

Since it was a Sandusky iron, then that would mean, not so. Probably as Don noted, just a catalog option and common with all the big American plane makers.

I will pick it up and check the bed angle and give it a try. As JayT noted, and another source had noted, the single iron planes were favored in England by the finer craftsman probably because they were maybe better to tune and set up for a single purpose.

Trying to figure all of this out is like reading the reviews on Amazon for some product that you need and one will tell you it is great and another that it is junk. Drives you nuts trying to read in between the lines and make a decision.

I think the single iron/double iron thing needs to be viewed in two phases. First phase is England and colonies before the boom of American manufacturing. Single irons were more prevalent and favored generally. Second phase is the American experience, and both styles are prevalent, with double irons being favored.

In the shop, who cares. But I do like the history.


----------



## donwilwol

to add one more note to JayT's comments. The chip breaker becomes less effective as the angle increases. 60 degree planes will not have a chip breaker usually. That's why all scrapers are single blade.


----------



## donwilwol

Here is a shameless plug for my new D.R. Barton book and some single versus double iron sales. Book arrives this week at TTT.


----------



## corelz125

Very nice early type #8 Bandit


----------



## RWE

I have a stump the band question. What is this:

The frog is integral to the plane body.










At first I thought it was a 50's/60's sort of Worth or Parplus type of animal.










It is in a soak now. It has the check pattern on the cap like a Stanley transitional. It has brass adjuster and screw caps. The handles are stained and don't look like a quality wood.










The body has Made in USA and the iron has Made in USA










It is a standard #3 size. Cap and body seem well made. The iron is thin and so is the chip breaker. It looks as if it has seen good use since there doesn't seem to be much left in length on the iron. For $16 I am not worried that I am throwing money away. I got it for a shelf sitter. I will put it in the rogues gallery of "not worthy" planes that I have. it seems to be a low end something or other, but parts of it are well made and maybe it is a middle tier thing. The frog design with two small posts seems too skimpy.

Last comment. I saw this plane at the same location about 2 years ago and passed on it. Not buying it preyed on my mind for a year or more. I had business down in that location and could not believe that it was still there and had a tremendous price reduction. So I picked it up yesterday.










Don W.: I have perused your site. i have Googled till I am blue in the face. I cannot find another reference or image with this type of integral frog. Help!!


----------



## bandit571

Stanley Defiance…


----------



## donwilwol

> Don W.: I have perused your site. i have Googled till I am blue in the face. I cannot find another reference or image with this type of integral frog. Help!!
> 
> - RWE


you didn't dig deep enough. scroll toward the bottom. https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/27/stanley-defiance-line/


----------



## RWE

I have read about those. What time period were they made. I know the Victor planes were well regarded and were quality planes, the early ones. I have a later release (not so well regarded) Victor smoother.

Excited to have a Defiance. May give it to my wife. LOL. She defied me to buy it two years ago.


----------



## donwilwol

> What time period were they made.
> - RWE


dates are in the descriptions


----------



## RWE

Bandit:

Your pictures match mine. Looking at the pictures on Time Tested Tools, the planes have Lateral Adjusters. Your picture does not show one and my plane does not have one either. What do you make of that as far as time period. I would assume that would be an earlier model?


----------



## RWE

*Other, even less expensive iterations incorporated a single cast bottom and frog combination and were numbered 1243 1244 and 1245. (More junk). *

From 
https://www.plane-dealer.com/single-post/2016/11/15/Stanleys-Junk

So I guess we have 1243's. As the man said: More junk. One man's junk is another man's treasure. I will proudly refurb it and give a try. Maybe it winds up with the Dunlop, the Victor, the Millers Falls 900 etc. in the Rogues Gallery.


----------



## bandit571

Sold mine for a profit…those are the pictures I posted on FeeBay…..back when I was "flipping", trying to find just the right plane for what I was doing….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Simple No. 60 1/2, with a fresh edge.










See a reflection of the brass knob?










(Smooth as Single Barrel Jack…)

 That is all, just futzin' in the shop.


----------



## theoldfart

futz away old man.


----------



## donwilwol

Did someone say "single barrel jack"? Now we're futzing in style!


----------



## HokieKen

I do love my 60 1/2


----------



## corelz125

Single barrel or gentleman that's a jack that is always welcomed.


----------



## RWE

So I have been helping a young fellow build a workbench. Yesterday he gave me a Record 44 as a gift for the help. He had a couple of snafus getting one he ordered on Ebay, so he had two. However, the one he gave me only had one iron (1/4 inch) and it had the notches for the screw to adjust it.

So for you folks that use Record planes, is there a source for the irons other than Ebay?

Since the 44 used those notched irons, is it possible to use Stanley 45 irons at all? I also have a Record 43 that had some irons, but they are not notched.

Second issue is that the 44 did not have the depth stop and was missing the narrow screw that is used for that depth stop. Guess I will have to go to Ebay for that. I checked and irons are going for around $99 bucks and such. I just want 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 and I would be good.

Any ideas for sources?

Last but not least, is there a good forum for Workbenches. We built a pretty good sized bench out of White Oak. Had to mill it all. Roubo, two top slabs are 3.5 inches thick, by 13 inches wide, by 76 inches long. I have never noticed a forum on LJ for Workbenches.


----------



## JayT

> Last but not least, is there a good forum for Workbenches. We built a pretty good sized bench out of White Oak. Had to mill it all. Roubo, two top slabs are 3.5 inches thick, by 13 inches wide, by 76 inches long. I have never noticed a forum on LJ for Workbenches.
> 
> - RWE


See the Workbench Smackdown thread. That's the current iteration. There's also a Part 1 that's closed if you want to peruse previous postings.

I'd love to see your bench. My current bench is all White Oak, too. Burr oak, specifically, though not as large as the one you built.


----------



## RWE

Thanks JayT.

My young friend is staining the base now. We did a half-lap jointed base (Chris Schwarz plan) that is not that elegant, but will break down at the long stretchers. He did put a Benchcrafted scissor kit and wheel on it. End vise will be a 9 inch quick release. I will post some pictures when we get it all assembled.

The Benchcrafted kit is fun exercise. I had a Veritas screw and a conventional "put a peg in the hole of the board" type of vise. I put in the Retro Benchcrafted scissor kit a while back and really like it.

That is my third bench build. They are fun. I am going to check out the Smackdown thread now.


----------



## bobasaurus

Have not been keeping up with this thread, and my woodworking has kind of waned recently. But I did plane some resawn chechen today, looks fancy:


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Beautiful!


----------



## bandit571

First of 5 rehab planes…..Geo. Worthington Co. of Cleveland, OH.









Model W2200 ( Stanley No. 220 ?)









Test drive….









sole needed a bit of touch-up









so…now I have 4 more block planes to do…


----------



## tywalt

Just picked up an old Sergeant No 3418 transitional plane from a friend last night. I am fairly well versed in fettling a cast iron plane, but this is the first transitional I've owned. Question for the group is: does that crack on the back worry any of you? Not sure how rigid that body needs to be and if that would cause any issues. I am a user *not* a collector so I have no problem filling the crack and putting a bolt through the body to reinforce it either. Likely if I go that route, I'd put a bolt on the front too to keep an even pressure across the body. Any thoughts/opinions welcome.


























Also, the broken tote doesn't really bother me… but if anyone has a lead on a beach Sergeant tote, I'd be interested.


Second edit attempt at fixing photo orientation.


----------



## donwilwol

The cracks no problem. Soak it in some BLO and it may close back up. Please don't put a bolt through it.

What's the plan? Jack, smoother??


----------



## CO_Goose

While we are on the subject of transitionals…

I came across this plane. It has been shortened on both the front and rear of the wooden sole, so any maker's marks are gone, and the length can only be determined as a range based on the width. The sole is 3" wide and the iron is 2 5/16" wide.



















aside from the missing horn, it appears to be in pretty good shape.
The only marking is on the iron.










L. BAILEY's PATENT DEC. 24, 1867

Christmas Eve, two years after the end of the Civil War.

I haven't been able to find much information on this one, any help will be greatly appreciated.

Goose.


----------



## RWE

I have a Sargent 3416 and it is one of my favorite planes. I am coming around to Don W.'s point of view on Sargent's. The transitional has maintained a good edge for a long time now. It glides on the work like silk.

I have a Craftsman Jack plane that was made by Sargent and before I had learned much about planes, it was one of my favorites and still is. Then I ran across a Sargent VBM Jack and refurbed it. It is an excellent plane.

So enjoy the 3418. It should make a very nice plane based on my experience with the 3416. (note: the length of what I am identifying as a 3416 is 15 inches, my eyesight may be reading a 6 instead of an 8. Yours looks a bit longer but the hardware seems the same.)









I have been building a set of wooden and transitionals over the last several years. Here is a group shot.










Ram's horn scrub plane is the latest addition. Absolutely love it. I have tried various ways to get a good working scrub plane. Modified a Jack, a Smoother, a Stanley 190 (think Stanley 78, one blade, no fence









) based on a Paul Sellers video, but the Austrian Ram Horn scrub is the winner by far. Absolutely love how it works.










It has the metal grid on the bottom. If any of you have an idea about German and Austrian planes, when would you think a plane made like this might be dated. I figure it is between the wars or maybe modern. Just don't know when and if affixing metal to a bottom became a common manufacturing technique. It is in beautiful shape. I think the whole trick is the thick iron, like the old wooden Jacks and Fore planes, and the narrow width of the iron, coupled with the large hole for shavings.










I have a friend that supplies me with bandsawn wood that I dry on a drying rack. So needing a good scrub is not an academic proposition. Typically, I flatten a face and then go to the power joiner and planer. With that collection of wood planes, I believe I could do S4S if I could find the time.


----------



## rad457

Been reading to many of Bandits post, stopped in at a little antique store and found this! Patd Apr.2.95
Paid $30 Cn. so about $20 US, thought it was a okay deal.
Has a SW iron, that would not be original?
Asked her to keep an eye out for the matching 601, 602 and 603, the 1 and 2 could bring a few extra $.
Picked up a Lotto ticket before heading home


----------



## bandit571

On a Walk-about, today….giving the knees a little work-out….found a block plane..









handi-grip and all….might have been a Stanley 9-1/2….but wait, there's MORE..









was bummed about the lever cap but..note the name on the toe?









Instead of Stanley on the lateral….it says MARSH…
Iron does have a logo of sorts…









"H. C. MARSH Co, ROCKFORD ILL.USA" 








Have brushed away most of the grime and crud. Other than the lever on the cap…seems to be intact….Depth adjuster is brass, with left-hand threads. Might be worth the $18 + Tax?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Is there such as the 601?


----------



## bandit571

> Is there such as the 601?
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Nope….not from Stanley, anyway…


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Is there such as the 601?
> 
> - BlasterStumps
> 
> Nope….not from Stanley, anyway…
> 
> - bandit571


But if you really feel the need and your pockets are deep enough, you could always get this one.


----------



## 33706

Co Goose said "*While we are on the subject of transitionals…

I came across this plane. It has been shortened on both the front and rear of the wooden sole, so any maker's marks are gone, and the length can only be determined as a range based on the width. The sole is 3" wide and the iron is 2 5/16" wide.*" 
If you're reasonably sure it's a Stanley, just make a new 24" bed for it and call it a #31. This was the longest length of Stanleys with the 2 3/8" cutter. People tend to saw the ends off either to compensate for bad splits, or to make them fit in toolboxes. I've repaired several, and turned them into #31s with 2 3/8" cutters. or #34s with 2 5/8" cutters. Heck I've got a #34 which is now 35" long, just for kicks.


----------



## corelz125

Don't see Marsh planes to often Bandit. Anyone on here get that 602 last weekend on ebay that went for $250?


----------



## rad457

Quick clean and put it to work.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Very nice. Congrats on stealing that one!


----------



## bandit571

On a day where a Sargent #3415 was going for $85….and









I passed on these two…came back later to find the $20 rebate plane gone..









Set of Tongue & groove planes…that is $30 EACH plane…









Spent $10 for this two….seem to be #3 sized..and then a small spokeshave…









For $5…has springs inside….and









Stanley Rule & Level Co. on the back of the iron…will be busy cleaning these up. 
West Liberty, OH Lion's Park, Tractor Fest…..


----------



## houblon

Found this sweet little coffin smoother and could not resist. Made by Andruss, Newark, NJ. That would date it to 1821-1841, which means it is my oldest plane. Size is just 6 3/4 in long, the W Butcher iron is 1 5/8 wide. It needed a bit of cleanup and sharpening.


----------



## corelz125

Bandit that spokeshave has 2 small springs by the bottom of the blade?


----------



## bandit571

Yep…Stanley No. 54…..


----------



## corelz125

I have a Ohio tool 015 that has the same springs.


----------



## bandit571

Ok….according to the numbers under the frog…









This Craftsman #3 sized plane was made by Sargent….aka..408….









Picked the other day for a fiver…( $5 )Needed very little clean up…









Sole looks good…and..









We have shavings….used to look like this…









And..









This…The other plane? Took a bit longer….


----------



## corelz125

Other is an earlier defiance?


----------



## bandit571

yep….right before it became the Handyman line.
.


----------



## bandit571

That little Marsh block plane is done…


















"M" "B"?



























I can deal without the lever…just tighten the bolt…









Iron sharpened to 2K grit…


----------



## maddogio

Decent price.


----------



## donwilwol

> Decent price.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - maddogio


It's outright theft. I hope you brought it home and nobody knows it was you!


----------



## BenDupre

> Decent price.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - maddogio


I need to get out more. Never find things like this.


----------



## HokieKen

I know where you can double your money maddogio  Great find and you suck!


----------



## maddogio

It was a funny estate sale. There were a bunch of overpriced clamps, vises and other bench hardware. This was the only plane. Given the look of the shop, I suspect there were bench planes that had been sold separately. I got a wooden spokeshave fashioned from one of those Hock/Veritas kits for $5 - better than the #64 I usually use. I also bought a Langdon/Millers Falls miter box for $15. It was a later model but has all the parts and is very clean. A guy just before me looked at it closely and when he left I snapped it up and held it close to my chest. He later tried to convince me it was worthless without the saw. 

I was so happy with myself I overpaid for some saws later in the day.


----------



## 33706

> It was a funny estate sale. There were a bunch of overpriced clamps, vises and other bench hardware. This was the only plane. Given the look of the shop, I suspect there were bench planes that had been sold separately. I got a wooden spokeshave fashioned from one of those Hock/Veritas kits for $5 - better than the #64 I usually use. I also bought a Langdon/Millers Falls miter box for $15. It was a later model but has all the parts and is very clean. A guy just before me looked at it closely and when he left I snapped it up and held it close to my chest. He later tried to convince me it was worthless without the saw.
> 
> I was so happy with myself I overpaid for some saws later in the day.
> 
> - maddogio


maddoggio: At the end of the day, you never overpay for anything. The only thing you overpay is the tool you never bought. Just like the man who walked away from your Miter box.


----------



## woodcox

Just some plane, nailed together, floating shelves instead of a proper till. For now. 









I'll show them loaded and up when I'm done.


----------



## woodcox




----------



## HokieKen

Looks real nice WC!


----------



## ZacharyD

The only plane I truly covet and will likely never own is an Old Street Tools plow plane. I have many plows and have even made a couple myself, so I simply can't justify the expense. They sure are pretty though…

I guess I should also add the LN large plow but, since it doesn't really exist for consumers yet, I guess I can let it go for the time being.


----------



## DLK

Up here in Houghton MI, where I have returned for my last year of conscription before retirement,I was given a Stanley (pat. date 6-7-10) number 78. It has all it parts except the depth screw. So I thought I would make one from a 1/4-20 shouldered thumbscrew. (I happened to have the 12-20 die and tap with me.)

*Can someone measure the length of the screw below the shoulder for me?*

I have left all my filletster planes down in Holland, MI where my shop is. I think I am up to 8 of them now.

I don't know how I ended up with so many. I think I only intentionally bought 2 or 3.

*Is there a type study for the number 78?*


----------



## bandit571

0.564".....according to my dial caliper. 
and…









And…









The rest of the story.

Rumour Control says the shouldered bolt for the Stanley #2246's length stop is the same….


----------



## DLK

Thanks. What I can make cheaply I think will work, but not look right. It will be interesting to try.


----------



## DanKrager

Here ya go boys. 20 miles away and I don't want it!

*I don't want it.*

*I don't want it.*

I don't want it.

DanK


----------



## bigblockyeti

Oh come on now, sure you want it. It's a good deal and it's only 20 miles away, besides there's so much cool stuff in the box, not to mention the box itself.


----------



## theoldfart

Oh yes you do want it. Listen to your inner voice Dan. Now go get it.


----------



## maddogio

Could someone please help me identify the no. 6 that is just to the left of the block planes and the smoother that is in the top row? Thanks!


----------



## maddogio

Zoomed a bit.


----------



## JayT

It's a Siegley, I believe.


----------



## bandit571

Smoother is Stanley Four Square


----------



## RWE

I agree with JayT, the number 6 is a Siegley. I have a 7 of the same vintage. I posted photos a while back and was told it was manufactured after Stanley acquired Siegley. Secondly, I have not liked mine much as a user. It is light and the adjusting nut and lever have always caused issues with adjusting the iron. It may be that I have an improper adjusting nut. In any event it has been passed over with a Bedrock 7. Love how it looks, not how it works. That one may clean up and perform well, but they are very light and when you get to a 6 or 7, I think a bit of weight helps.

Look at the side walls of that plane and compare them to the side walls of the 6 next to it. I bought mine on Ebay years ago and called the vendor first. He warned me that it was much lighter than a Stanley, but I jumped on it anyway. Other Siegley users fill free to chime in.


----------



## maddogio

Thanks, all.


----------



## donwilwol

> Here ya go boys. 20 miles away and I don t want it!
> 
> *I don t want it.*
> 
> *I don t want it.*
> 
> I don t want it.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


of course you want it. Did you get it yet?


----------



## donwilwol

> I agree with JayT, the number 6 is a Siegley. I have a 7 of the same vintage. I posted photos a while back and was told it was manufactured after Stanley acquired Siegley. Secondly, I have not liked mine much as a user. It is light and the adjusting nut and lever have always caused issues with adjusting the iron. It may be that I have an improper adjusting nut. In any event it has been passed over with a Bedrock 7. Love how it looks, not how it works. That one may clean up and perform well, but they are very light and when you get to a 6 or 7, I think a bit of weight helps.
> 
> Look at the side walls of that plane and compare them to the side walls of the 6 next to it. I bought mine on Ebay years ago and called the vendor first. He warned me that it was much lighter than a Stanley, but I jumped on it anyway. Other Siegley users fill free to chime in.
> 
> - RWE


You're actually the first person I ever heard say they didn't like Siegley. You're a rebel. They do look cool either way, and Siegley (and Stanley) sold quit a few.


----------



## theoldfart

Come on Dan, fess up. You bought it didn't you? Told ya!


----------



## donwilwol

> Come on Dan, fess up. You bought it didn t you? Told ya!
> 
> - theoldfart


He did. I know he did. I'll bet he's driving home with it right now.


----------



## theoldfart

With a big rust eatin' smile I'm sure.


----------



## DanKrager

Nope. Didn't get it. Stuff has to go the other way. Ya just gotta draw the line somewhere. It helps so much to think what has to happen to move. We have a 2 year plan to leave IL for a much smaller, low maintenance place somewhere in southern IN.

I have reached the point where I can walk through a well stocked hardware store or antique tool shop and walk away entertained but empty handed. Like walking past the chocolate when you're trying to lose weight.

And it helps to have an extended to do list with little ambition to even do that. Serious streamlining has begun by dancing around the edges of the junk piles and peeling off layers like onions. Somewhere in the center is a core that will tag along. The goal is to fit it on a 8×10 truck bed.

DanK


----------



## bigblockyeti

> We have a 2 year plan to leave IL for a much smaller, low maintenance place somewhere in southern IN.
> 
> - Dan Krager


Doesn't everyone in IL have a plan to leave in the not too distant future?


----------



## HokieKen

> We have a 2 year plan to leave IL for a much smaller, low maintenance place somewhere in southern IN.
> 
> - Dan Krager
> 
> Doesn t everyone in IL have a plan to leave in the not too distant future?
> 
> - bigblockyeti


Yeah but how many of them *want* to go to Indiana? ;-)


----------



## BenDupre

> It helps so much to think what has to happen to move. We have a 2 year plan to leave IL for a much smaller, low maintenance place somewhere in southern IN.
> 
> - Dan Krager


Just left IL in July. Back to Iowa. Cost 8k+ to hire movers, and we only moved 300 miles. they estimated 16,000 lb and at least half of that was my shop.

But so glad to be out of IL! Good luck on your escape!

Ben


----------



## Just_Iain

So what is wrong with IL (I'm Canadian and claiming ignorance)?


----------



## CL810

Ahem..



> Yeah but how many of them *want* to go to Indiana? ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## CL810

Chicago



> So what is wrong with IL (I m Canadian and claiming ignorance)?
> 
> - Just_Iain


----------



## HokieKen

Sorry Andy ;-) Us southerners just automatically turn our noses up at anywhere north of the Mason-Dixon or west of the Mississippi…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

What's wrong with Illinois? Four of our past governors are jailed, tax and spend is the order of the day, state government controlled by Chicago. State's broke, too. But we're getting expanded gambling and legal pot the first of the year, so all is well!


----------



## bandit571

Gave up trying to get a broken bolt out of a base…









Easy-outs? It laughed at them…finally just tossed the base casting away…still had all the extras, though









Including those very good handles. And their bolts. had a Stanley No. 1243 Defiance that was in need of handles…

so…









At least they fit…the rest of the leftovers?









Frogs? Nah…ferget about it..same with the lever caps..









As for the iron/chipbreaker/bolt?









Even the bolts are different…guess I'll save the #3 sized extras, for the next #3 with missing parts…









may give the completed plane a test run…..sometime?


----------



## corelz125

A base I had with frozen screws the eazy out got one out pretty easy but then the next one the eazy out snapped in the hole.


----------



## P89DC

> So what is wrong with IL (I m Canadian and claiming ignorance)?
> 
> - Just_Iain


Unsustainable tax burden with a $500billion unfunded pension system. Highest real estate taxes in the nation. State government is one party super majority bent on screwing the middle class. Left in 2013 and never turned back.


----------



## P89DC

> Sorry Andy ;-) Us southerners just automatically turn our noses up at anywhere north of the Mason-Dixon or west of the Mississippi…
> 
> - HokieKen


That's one explanation. I always thought you southerners prided yourselves as gentlemen, maybe you missed the memo


----------



## RWE

I am a deplorable fly over Southerner clinging to guns and religion. At least clinging to religion. I went way left during the Vietnam period and developed this idea about peace and violence such that I never wanted to load up on pistols and such. I take my chances.

Like HokieKen, who was making a little bit of a joke anyway, I have a high regard for the South and particularly the Deep South. I have traveled quite a bit. I like New England and would like to spend more time there. I have been out west a few times and liked Seattle and what I saw of California. The Amish country Southeast of Columbus Ohio was some of the prettiest country I have seen.

Everyone grows up and gets inculturated to the mores and ways of their birthplace and home.

Chicago is my favorite big city. I am a music guy and I had the pleasure of working in the loop for several weeks and every night I would hit a different blues club. Fabulous music scene, at least it was 25 years ago.

I am sympathetic that Chicago politics is making the rest of Illinois become too expensive. I am lucky to live in a state where the purchasing power of a buck is in the top five ranking for all states. I would hate to have to pack up and leave because of high taxes.

Every region has some positive and negatives. I salute those members of Lumberjocks who live in New England because they have more tools. If you could plant me in a tiny little Norman Rockwell village in Vermont for the summer and fall, then pull me back South for the Winter and Spring, I would be a happy camper.

*So here is my thought: Let's end the discussion that is heading into politics. Typing on the internet often emboldens one's language. I have seen it on sports message boards. Let's keep this discussion on tools. I figure most of the membership here are head strong opinionated older males and it could get ugly. Also, no region in the country compares to the deep South (lol)*


----------



## Lazyman

For you guys who never done one of the swaps, you will learn that nothing is sacred to Kenny, except maybe being a Hokie (that's a castrated turkey to anyone who doesn't know). He'll give anyone and everyone, including himself, a hard time and it is all in good fun. When he runs a swap, he often warns and apologizes in advance to any unsuspecting newcomers. Before it is all over, he will certainly, insult and make fun of each one of us. Just realize that he means everything he says and knows that it's all true. ;-) Don't take it personally, just pass it on.


----------



## rad457

> For you guys who never done one of the swaps, you will learn that nothing is sacred to Kenny, except maybe being a Hokie (that s a castrated turkey to anyone who doesn t know). He ll give anyone and everyone, including himself, a hard time and it is all in good fun. When he runs a swap, he often warns and apologizes in advance to any unsuspecting newcomers. Before it is all over, he will certainly, insult and make fun of each one of us. Just realize that he means everything he says and knows that it s all true. ;-) Don t take it personally, just pass it on.
> 
> - Lazyman


*a Hokie (that s a castrated turkey to anyone who doesn t know* LOL! I didn't thanks, but his description resembles me way too much!

To get back on topic sort of, what are the thoughts on putting different irons in vintage planes? All my older Stanleys are working planes and have been switched to PMV-11, but after finally acquiring a true collector piece in a Bedrock, think it should stay as original as possible?


----------



## RWE

I have been working on some highly figured Box Elder. I have a line of Bedrock or Keen Kutter Bedrocks, and I found myself reaching for the Stanley 4 with a Hock Iron. I think it is all setup, camber and sharpening. The newer Hock is just a sure bet and I got it super sharp. At my age, I can't keep track of the other planes and what state I left them in, so I grab the Hock. The older irons, from what I have read and seen on here, are regarded to be as good as the newer high end replacements. I believe that. My take on the vintage handplane world is that older is better and setup it the key. Pre-WWII and I would keep the old iron. Post WWII and it depends on how the iron holds the edge. I like the Hock iron, I esteem the SW Stanley iron. Since the Bedrocks are by definition older, keep the Bedrock original.

My sig says it all "In my imagination all my tools are sharp"


----------



## bandit571

One yard sale this morning had 2 planes…..a #4 size, front part was sitting there, in front of the rear,,,from the mouth opening back…Passed. Second plane was #3 Stanley…









Price said $10…I offered $5 because..









The fellow said "Sold!" Paid the guy, and headed for the van….Boss was waiting…
Details?









Cleaned to logo enough to read it..









lateral lever merely has STANLEY, no patent dates…









Has 3 patent dates behind the frog, and the frog adjust bolt…









I have a spare lever cap, that I can use, for now….sole?









Couple of scratches…should clean up nicely, enough…

Just a $5 plane….


----------



## RWE

$5, I'll give you triple your money for that fellow. Keep the Boss happy with your big profit.

Looks like a nice early one. Great find. I like #3's. That first lever cap is quite interesting. Wonder what it was for.


----------



## bandit571

Methinks somebody broke it quite a while ago…









I think I can make do….once it is all cleaned up and sharpened….


----------



## CL810

Who knew a castrated turkey could be so much fun! I just figured his mom dropped him a bunch as an infant.



> ..... a Hokie (that s a castrated turkey to anyone who doesn t know).
> 
> - Lazyman


----------



## DLK

You could fix it like the one I found in 2014.


----------



## HokieKen

Yes, if anyone took offense to my comments about other parts of the country please pardon me. I assure you it was all in jest. Even though I truly love this region and can't imagine living anywhere else (even though I have loved many other parts of this great country in my travels) I can't, with any sincerity, say that it has any less problems than anywhere else. Well… except DC but I digress… ;-)

So yeah, Chicago? No thanks. Don't like snow, wind or areas with more than 200k people in residence. But I don't begrudge anyone who does.

So, y'all poke fun at me and the rest of us **************************************** down here all ya want. I more than deserve it I'm sure. Any pokes at "castrated turkeys" just make you sound petty though. Just sayin'

;-)


----------



## bandit571

Plane has been rehabbed…









And sharpened…









Lumber is Ash…
.








2 hours in the shop…1350 hrs to 1550 hrs….start to finish.

So, now I have these two..









The Stanley No. 3, Type 11, and a Stanley No.3c, type 11/12 (withe a SW iron..)

I think that will do, for now…


----------



## bndawgs

Picked up a few planes. I'm anxious to go thru them all.


----------



## warrenkicker

Curious what the middle plane is. The top one is a Craftsman No. 4-size plane.


----------



## DLK

I am just guessing but i think it may be a Voskov, with a weird depth adjustment wheel. I think I would need better pictures to be sure. Or maybe a liberty or shelton. The shape of the lever cap is also odd.


----------



## bandit571

Lip adjuster…









So a lip on a box…









Will allow the lid to close…


----------



## warrenkicker

Here is the only other view I have of this plane. It appears to be a steel or cast knob, the adjuster wheel has 6 points and there is japanning on the cap and the adjusting screw. The cap iron and the blade have chamfers around the top edges.


----------



## bandit571

And…DonW will be right over to pick it up…( No, it is not a Soviet made plane..)


----------



## DLK

It's not a Birmingham is it? Has a wrong tote. Is it a Goodall.


----------



## JayT

Metallic Plane Company, Palmer & Storkes patent. Their "faucet handle" adjusters had six lobes, while the B-plane only had 4, I believe. See a #5 size here on Don's site (scroll to the bottom of the page) Faucet handle and tote match up.


----------



## DLK

Well that settles that. I've never seen a Metallic Plane Company plane.


----------



## donwilwol

A faucet handle metallic tool Co. Nice find.


----------



## donwilwol

Look what the mailman left me


----------



## corelz125

Good to see it arrived in one piece.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Any keepers in this lot?
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2336514093255974/


----------



## JayT

> Any keepers in this lot?
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2336514093255974/
> 
> - bigblockyeti


Maybe a few, but only if he cuts the price by 90%. I don't see anything rare, unusual or really even that hard to find in that lot. Lots of woodys, three 78's, a few iron planes. The only ones that come close to being a little bit intriguing are the core box plane and the 46, but the 46 looks like it needs quite a bit of TLC and I don't see any cutters for it, which are harder to find than the bodies. Core box is a novelty for most, great for conversation but not a user.

Can't really tell what all the molding planes are, but even if they are in good shape, you're still nowhere close to that asking price.


----------



## donwilwol

I agree with Jayt. Reselling them individually would take forever and there are to many duplicates to say they'd be users.


----------



## theoldfart

^Wow, I didn't realize I could just get instructions for my builds.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Yeah, I know diddly squat about older planes, especially wooden ones. That lot would interest me none unless there was something(s) of tremendous value buried within which it seems unanimous there isn't.


----------



## corelz125

What are the chances of a complete set of molding planes are in there?


----------



## KentInOttawa

> What are the chances of a complete set of molding planes are in there?
> 
> - corelz125


A complete set? That's sort of like a unicorn, isn't it?


----------



## DLK

> What are the chances of a complete set of molding planes are in there?
> 
> - corelz125


0% chance

Maybe there is a half or full set of hollows and rounds, but I am not sure what you would mean by a complete set of molding planes. Do you mean all the ones a particular company offered, if so which company?


----------



## corelz125

Or finding the leprechaun at the end of the rainbow with a pot of gold. Set from the same maker in size order. Or even dado's in size order from different makers.


----------



## Lazyman

So kind of planes are those in the foreground of the second picture? I think that they are at the far end in the first picture.


----------



## HokieKen

> So kind of planes are those in the foreground of the second picture? I think that they are at the far end in the first picture.
> 
> - Lazyman


Looks like #78 Rabbet planes.


----------



## DLK

Does anyone have a original Steiner hand plane with a clean "medallion" that they would sell me?


----------



## donwilwol

Before and after. I was debating on whether I was even going to bother. I have a little under 3 hours in this. I needed to use the ruler trick to save the blade, but it's working like a champ. Complete strip and repaint.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice work Don! You brought that one back a long ways. Looks good now.

I was in an antique shop here today where I saw a Stanley 4 smoother on a shelf. I picked it up and took a look at the tag. They wanted $30. Then I turned it upside down to see the bottom. Broke at the edge of the mouth. Oh well.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice work Don. That was quite a bit of rust on that sole!


----------



## DLK

Is this $12.00 number 4 Shelton worth getting if I don't need it?










In person it looks more rusty than the photo belies.


----------



## JayT

If you want it to sit on a shelf as a conversation piece, sure. The design is kind of interesting in an academic way.

As a user, no.


----------



## controlfreak

I am kind of getting the hand plane bug and spotted on ebay a stanley Bailey #6 for about $40 with no bids. Should I take my chances? I feel like it is a bit low which makes me think it may have a problem.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BAILEY-NO-6-ANTIQUE-HAND-PLANNER/323942091113?hash=item4b6c740969:g:yjEAAOSwOxFdHNxJ


----------



## JayT

Seems like it's worth a shot. It looks complete and, other than the horn of the tote, damage free in the pics. Plus, the seller has 100% feedback rating and enough transactions that they should know what they are doing.

If I was in the market for a #6 size, I'd go for it


----------



## HokieKen

No. 6 just isn't a really popular size controlfreak. Kinda too big for a jack and too small for a jointer to most people. Personally, I like the size but a lot of people don't. I imagine that's why no bids so far. Unfortunately, the pictures on that listing are too crappy to be able to assess the condition of the sole. So, you're taking a chance there and you can tell the tote is busted and it needs a good cleanup at a minimum. Not a great specimen but for $40 and shipping it's a fair price assuming the sole is resonably flat and there aren't any cracks in it.


----------



## controlfreak

Good info Kenny. I didn't see the busted tote, I already have a #5 with one of those. I am in no hurry as I need to finish out my shop wall french cleat storage anyway so I can display what little I have first.


----------



## DLK

> If you want it to sit on a shelf as a conversation piece, sure. The design is kind of interesting in an academic way.
> 
> As a user, no.
> 
> - JayT


Thanks *JayT*. Thats was what I first thought, but second guessing myself I thought I would ask.


----------



## Lazyman

It looks like the auction ended and someone got it for $40.


----------



## bandit571

Busy day, today…









Planes large..


















And…not so large…









Just to get 2 boards flat and square ..S4S..


----------



## KentInOttawa

> It looks like the auction ended and someone got it for $40.
> 
> - Lazyman


I noticed that. I guess this means that it wasn't you.


----------



## bandit571

Wasn't me…already have two #6s in the shop….a No. 6 and a No. 6c…..









and…


----------



## corelz125

Don it's been awhile since you restored one that bad? The #6's you can get for a decent price if your patient


----------



## Mosquito

Had the KK6 out the other night. 
Felt good.


----------



## corelz125

Mos do you also have a K6?


----------



## Mosquito

No K6, I've just got the KK series planes. I think I sold my K5, but I'd have to have a look around to see if I had it around still


----------



## corelz125

Was wondering if there was a difference while using them.


----------



## Mosquito

The depth adjustment is opposite, that's about it lol

I prefer the thicker iron on the KK series, and never got too hung up on the roundy-rock features of the K series.


----------



## Mosquito

I must have sold the K5, as I haven't found it, and I'm pretty sure I've got all my planes back out… maybe one other place to check (some things got moved around in a hurry this spring when the basement was floodign)

Last night I got the Chaplin 1210 cleaned up and sharpened a little. It still needs a lot of work on the iron, as the outer edges are rounded pretty good, and the very leading edge is not at the same plane as the rest of the back of the iron. Might be one of the few irons I'll do a back bevel on, just to avoid having to flatten all the way through all of that. But, got it working. Sole hasn't been flattened yet, but probably will in time…



















First impression on using it, I like the lateral and depth adjustment, even if it's not quite as fine as the Bailey wheel depth adjustments. The Mechanism is simple. For hand space, my initial reaction was that it felt a lot like one of my early Stanley made Siegley's. A little cramped for me, but not quite as bad.


----------



## corelz125

Nice Chaplin. That one has the rubber tote?


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks. Both the knob and tote are wood, the knob just looks drark


----------



## BlasterStumps

Random plane picture:

My pre-lateral No 3 Type 2/3 Stanley. The furniture on it is not correct but it works.


----------



## bandit571

A little work out, today..









And..









Short stretch or long stretch…









Rebates for a cabinet's back…


----------



## woodcox

A recent pic of a Sargent no. 81 working.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Very nice!


----------



## RWE

Can you post a closeup shot of that Sargent 81.


----------



## woodcox




----------



## RWE

Thanks. I will have to do some research on it. Very interesting. I assume they are fairly rare.


----------



## woodcox

I don't think rare. Preston pattern has a fence I believe. Keep an eye for cracks at the end of the cutter bed. Quite thin there.


----------



## theoldfart

Marples has a version of the Preston style as well


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Futzing with the No. 62.


----------



## rad457

> Futzing with the No. 62.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Just drooled on my keyboard


----------



## theoldfart

I was wrong saying there was a Marples version. I should have said Record.
Looks quite fine Smitty.


----------



## bandit571

Have planed easier things..









No, that is not tear-out…more of where a twig had started to grow in an Ash tree…
Plane is the Stanley No. 3, Type 11…..seemed to be about the right sized…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I think that plank would have found the burn box around here. You sure like to aggravate yourself, Bandit.


----------



## RWE

Had a lot of good luck on a recent trip. I have not had a chance to clean up the two items that I am going to post about.

The first thing is a what I take to be a Stanley, early type, that does not have No. 6 in the bed, rather R 6.



















*Has anyone ever seen the bed with a mark other than No. in front of the number. When I clean it, I can post more? *

Second item is a transitional #36 but it has what seems to be a factory metal plate on the bottom. It did not have a chip breaker and a proper iron, but the metal plate made me think it to be worthy.

*Don W. or other experts, how rare or common is the metal bottom plate on a transitional? * I found an horn handled Austrian scrub plane with the metal plate, but I have never seen one on an American made transitional until this one.



















Thanks. Curious minds want to know.


----------



## RWE

Ok, here is number three item. This iron was in the #36 that I posted about in the previous post. It is 2 inches wide, would fit a #4.

*It is a Stanley SW Ready Edge?????*

Seems to have a replaceable edge to allow one to not have to sharpen the iron. Also, that would allow one to have different cambers on the same plane, assuming Stanley sold different camber replacement edges.

Google has failed me on this. Anyone know about these, please link a URL or comment. I know some current plane makers offer this type of replacement tip.


----------



## donwilwol

R is for Rockford.

I've seen the metal base. They're usually user added. Union actually made a line with the metal base though. I've never seen one other than their catalogs.

The ready edge blade is somewhat rare. Nice find.


----------



## BlasterStumps

RWE, if you go to Patrick Leach's Blood and Gore and read thru the No 3 smooth plane section, in there he talks about the Ready Edge plane blades. 
Sorry that is all I know 'bout 'em.


----------



## bandit571

He also said to avoid them…..

Random Plane Photo..









Since it IS a jack plane….using like a jack plane, to take out a few high spots, by going across the grain…









High in the middle? About like Ohio? Finally..









The old Stanley #5-1/2….









Was starting to get a bit heavy, anyway…


----------



## RWE

Well the Ready Edge was free so to speak. The fellow that sold the 36 transitional with no chip breaker or proper iron must have figured some idiot would buy the plane if there was an iron in it. Anybody that has an interest in having a Ready Edge iron for their collection can Private Message me. Otherwise I will try to figure the going price and put it on Ebay.

*Don W. I suppose the metal plate on the 36 could have been done by an end user, but they sure did a great job on it. I will do some more photos with better light.

I know that you are a Sargent man. I also got a late (i would guess 50's or 60's) Craftsman 619.3741 that I believe is a Sargent. Plastic handles, ugly screws. Got to do some more research. Any thoughts about this fellow.
*

I believe it will clean up and make a nice user. I like the striped/corrugated sides. Looks cool. Every Sargent I have touched turned out to be great. Maybe this is too late in the game and quality had diminished. Will see.


----------



## donwilwol

50s or 60s is about right. It may take a bit more tuning, but once tuned it'll be a decent user. The bottom of those frogs were a solid mass, so they worked pretty well.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Is there a way to tell what model this plane is? It has the dimensions and the patent dates that I understand it should have if it is a 65 1/2. I understand that the early 65s are quite similar however. This one has a nickeled lever cap and I believe a nickeled thumb screw for the mouth adjuster. It also has the thin depth adjuster wheel with Stanley on it. Anyone have more info on the difference between these two models?


----------



## Johnny7

try this:
https://virginiatoolworks.com/tools/stanley-planes/date-your-block-plane-type-study/


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Johnny7 for the link. Yes, he has some good info.

Here are a few more things I discovered from his info:
The bed of the plane has a "B" casting mark. 
The front knob boss is about 1/8" high
The eccentric throat plate lever has a Feb 20 94 patent date on it
Besides being nickel plated, the lever cap is hooded and has a patent date of 10-12-97
And it has the early rear depth adjuster screw thin knob with Stanley on it.

The one thing that seems to still be up in the air on this plane is one site I was on said that the lever cap should be nickel plate and another says it should be japanned.

If it were a 65 would it have the above indicators as well?

Thanks again Johnny7


----------



## HokieKen

From Blood and Gore, it sure sounds like from 1909-1919 they were basically the same plane Mike. The 65 started out wider and with no adjustable throat but in 1905 the adjustable throat was added and in 1909 the plane was made narrower. In 1919 the lever cap was replaced with a knuckle cap. I didn't see whether the 65 hardware was nickle plated or japanned.

Good luck!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Kenny. I will have to finish getting it ready so I can see if it will make a good user.


----------



## HokieKen

My 65-1/2 is a dang handy plane to have around


----------



## corelz125

Now this is a man's plane.


----------



## HokieKen

LOL, that's hilarious corelz  Even if it did peel off uniform 4/4 boards though, I wouldn't be in for $3600 ;-p


----------



## CFrye

> LOL, that s hilarious corelz  Even if it did peel off uniform 4/4 boards though, I wouldn t be in for $3600 ;-p
> 
> - HokieKen


Kenny, that was just one payment!


----------



## Mosquito

I mean… I don't think it just peeled off uniform 4/4 boards, if you look at the board they were planning, it didn't look like it was getting much thinner. I think it just CREATED 4/4 boards lol In that case, it might be worth it lol Make that Rosewood multiply!


----------



## HokieKen

Geeze, you're right Candy! 3 payments of $3600. Not even if it did multiply Rosewood Mos ;-)


----------



## CL810

The video that followed showing how they made it was pretty cool.


----------



## DLK

*CL810 * What video did you see? The video that followed my viewing was on building a track saw?

It says this was "April 1 2019", but I swear I saw this video a few years ago.


----------



## bandit571

Look at Jackman Works site….the video is there, along with the giant Craftsman Screwdriver, and a HUGE Utility Knife….He shows how he built the plane, and even had it making normal real shavings….just takes 2 people to push it along….the only metal used was the iron and chipbreaker, all else is wood.


----------



## CL810

^ that.


----------



## corelz125

You'll never need another sawmill again. Just roll the log in the shop and start planing away. So it will pay for itself after awhile Kenny.


----------



## HokieKen

That's what I tell my wife all the time Corelz. I know better than to believe it ;-)


----------



## corelz125

Just as long as one of you believe it.


----------



## DLK

Thanks.


----------



## corelz125

Any one use or try the diamond plates for the worksharp 3000?


----------



## rad457

Stanley #45, thinking about getting 0ne? Lots on E-bay but most are pricey, whats a good price to pay?


----------



## RWE

Andre: You might post this question on the Stanley 45 forum here on Lumberjocks: *Stanley #45 - 7 forms of fun in 1*

Mos, the moderator of that forum probably would have a good number for you. I expect it depends on the Type and the cutters that would go with it. One rule they preach over there is to not buy one without cutters/irons.

I recently picked up a new to me 45 and I have one to sell accordingly (total of 3 currently, plan to keep two). The one I will sell will include a pretty full set of the cutters. I have been wondering how much to sell it for if I go the Ebay route. When you get a number in mind that you are happy with, Private Message me and I will see if we are in the park on my expectation. I can provide details and pictures of course.

I had been planning on posting there about my new to me 45 and was going to post a similar question about pricing.


----------



## rad457

> Andre: You might post this question on the Stanley 45 forum here on Lumberjocks: *Stanley #45 - 7 forms of fun in 1*
> 
> Mos, the moderator of that forum probably would have a good number for you. I expect it depends on the Type and the cutters that would go with it. One rule they preach over there is to not buy one without cutters/irons.
> 
> I recently picked up a new to me 45 and I have one to sell accordingly (total of 3 currently, plan to keep two). The one I will sell will include a pretty full set of the cutters. I have been wondering how much to sell it for if I go the Ebay route. When you get a number in mind that you are happy with, Private Message me and I will see if we are in the park on my expectation. I can provide details and pictures of course.
> 
> I had been planning on posting there about my new to me 45 and was going to post a similar question about pricing.
> 
> - RWE


Was looking for that forum but after going back 40 pages gave up Search didn't prove all that helpful either!
I know I will not use it a lot, but do like the option of different blades? As always shipping is a big factor.


----------



## RWE

Andre:
https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/43282#reply-5230053

That should get you to 45 forum.


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos, the moderator of that forum probably would have a good number for you. I expect it depends on the Type and the cutters that would go with it. One rule they preach over there is to not buy one without cutters/irons.
> 
> - RWE


You are certainly correct here… Depends on type, how complete (including how complete a set of irons), and what kind of shape it's in. You will spend a LOT more if you buy an incomplete #45, and then buy irons separately and the pieces you need to complete the plane. You'll also end up paying more for one in an original box, whether wooden, pasteboard, or metal.

Don't worry too much about not having short rods, if it's going to be missing a set of rods, make sure it's missing the short rods.

I have preferred types for different operations, but in general I'd recommend looking for a Type 12 or later, as it has the fence adjustment screw, which makes set up easier for most things you're likely to use a #45 for.

As far as price, it depends on all the things above, as well as how fast you want to find one, and how much effort you're willing to put into the plane and irons themselves. For a plane that will need a complete cleaning/derusting all around, and irons that will require significant work, I wouldn't pay more than $60-80 for the set depending on type and completeness. If you want ready to go, just sharpen the irons, I would expect to pay $180-$200 if in a hury, or if you're patient (and part lucky), you should be able to find something in the $120-$150 range. Somewhere in the middle of all those, you'll probably find decent #45s with decent irons, relatively complete for around $100-$150. I wouldn't get too hung up on the cam rest, slitter, short rods, or secondary depth stop (the one for the movable skate), and consider them to be bonus items that put one particular plane ahead of another in terms of usability. If you think you're going to do a lot of T&G with a bead, you'll want to the beading stop, but otherwise it will fall into the same "bonus items" category.

This is all, of course, just my opinion on what I'd be willing to spend, and my experience buying and selling #45s (not as much as a dealer, I'm sure, but far more than the average Joe). You can of course hold out and spend less, or you can splurge and spend more.


----------



## rad457

Thanks Mos, you summed up most of my thoughts. I picked up a 71 few years back and have used it to cut some smaller groves but ready to move on to something with a little more character.

Thanks RWE for the link and offers, will consider it?

Going to follow up on the 45 forum.


----------



## DLK

I thought these side rabbet planes on  ebay, where there are more pictures. They look interesting and would be a fun build.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, I see sliding dovetails in your future!

Good looking planes, great score.


----------



## DLK

> Don, I see sliding dovetails in your future!
> 
> Good looking planes, great score.
> 
> - theoldfart


I didn't buy them…. I want to make them.


----------



## theoldfart

Oh! I missed that. Ambitious goal, I assume you'll keep us posted?


----------



## DLK

> Oh! I missed that. Ambitious goal, I assume you ll keep us posted?
> 
> - theoldfart


217 more days until retirement, then I can be ambitious. There are two planes I really want to make snipe bills and side rabbets, but it's a long road to get there. I will first learn by restoring and rebuilding some deplorable planes I have.


----------



## controlfreak

I found these on Craigslist, $60.00 for all. I was out of the country so I didn't really get a good look at them but now that I can zoom in better I am not so sure they are a great deal. What are your thoughts?


----------



## RWE

The first three might be worth $60. I can't tell the brand, but they have old school brass nuts in the front knob, so that means they are probably not 50's and 60's modern. The third one seems to be a Craftsman and could be a Sargent. If so it would probably make a decent user. Most folks don't like the Handyman (4th). The old rabbet Stanley is probably not worth much. Depending on what you want to do with them, I would be on the fence. I would want to put eyes on the first two and then make my decision. My practical sense says no. My overwhelming lack of good sense on old planes says yes.

If you get where you can put eyes on them, offer $40 or $50, then have countless hours of fun refurbing them.


----------



## controlfreak

The one on the left is a Craftsman. The next over is too "dull" to makeout. Not sure how that would happen?

I think I will pass. When I first looked I could makeout "Stanley" but the "Handyman" was not clear enough. I would have needed a good 50 minute drive each way so I withdrew my request to purchase. There will be others. Thank you for your input.


----------



## RWE

Have fortitude and pass. Just don't let it haunt you. I have gone back to antique stores a year later to pick a plane that I could not get out of my head. If there were any logic involved, it might have occurred to me that a plane that is there a year later is not "all that". If you have ever looked at Don's Timetested Tools, there is an article that shows the various lateral adjusting lever styles. If I see a Union style or a Sargent style, I get interested.


----------



## corelz125

They look like craftsman also. $60 Is a decent price for all of them but do you need 2 planes the same size And a not so good handyman?


----------



## bandit571

No. 2 is by Millers Falls
No. 1 and No.3 are by Sargent….with No. 3 being a #3 sized ( #408?)

The #5 is a very late model version….with the BAD rear handle.

Rebate plane could be either a stanley, or a millers falls. Sargent ones had a "horn" out front to help hold the plane…usually either broke off, or ground off…


----------



## donwilwol

Pass


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Pictures….









Tapering legs…getting rid of saw marks/burns in Ash..









Figured I could give it a "Try"...22" long #81….









Laying down on the job? Stanley No. 6…..









Stanley No. 3, type 11….doing what a smoother is supposed to do…


----------



## sansoo22

Early Christmas present to myself…a NEAR complete no 71. I think the only thing im missing is the washer for the fence screw. It's not an early model but a solid user from, I'm guessing, the 50s or 60s.


















I've never used one of these before so I guess I need to find a project for it. And should probably learn how to sharpen it as well. It's a gift that keeps on giving.


----------



## Lazyman

Paul Sellers has a good video on sharpening the 71 irons. I picked up a 71 at an estate sale a few years ago that was in the original box and even had the instructions (also has the washer. It has plastic knobs so I am not sure how old it is. I used it for the first time last week to clean up the bottom of some shallow mortises, even though I didn't spend much time sharpening, it works great.


----------



## sansoo22

> Paul Sellers has a good video on sharpening the 71 irons. I picked up a 71 at an estate sale a few years ago that was in the original box and even had the instructions (also has the washer. It has plastic knobs so I am not sure how old it is. I used it for the first time last week to clean up the bottom of some shallow mortises, even though I didn t spend much time sharpening, it works great.
> 
> - Lazyman


Thanks for the tip. Just watched the video. Gotta love Paul Sellers. "Let's put the blade back in and see how well I did…i might need to micro adjust…nope its perfect" No crap Paul…everything you do looks easy until i try it. Also looks like I'm headed to Woodcraft today to go get a couple more diamond paddles.

Anyway I picked this up mainly to smooth out the bottom of dados and rabbets. My formal dining/sitting room in the new house needs some built in book cases and buffet. It's a pretty large project for someone still new to woodworking so I think I will tackle the custom closet organization in the master his and hers closets first. That seems like a good practice project to at least learn what not to do.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Gotta love Paul Sellers. "Let s put the blade back in and see how well I did…i might need to micro adjust…nope its perfect" No crap Paul…everything you do looks easy until i try it.
> 
> - sansoo22


Gotta clean up the coffee I spit out after reading that one. I can relate.


----------



## Lazyman

Hah. He doesn't show the first 99 times he sharpened it.

And when you screw it up you can buy new ones. I can't find it now but I saws a set of them not too long ago.


----------



## rad457

> Hah. He doesn t show the first 99 times he sharpened it.
> 
> And when you screw it up you can buy new ones. I can t find it now but I saws a set of them not too long ago.
> 
> - Lazyman


Lee Valley/Veritas has some that work! Full Imp. and Metric, even a inlay cutting attachment.


----------



## DLK

I few post back we were talking about table joint planes. I made it home over the black ice and through the woods to my shop in Holland, mi. for Thanksgiving break. Took a moment in the shop to photo graph my related planes.










I was mistaken the middle table joint plane I have does indeed have a fence albeit a short one, never the less it works beautifully. How ever I am confused by this Auburn plane. It is marked 7/8 and 155 1/2. The Auburn catalog does not list a 155 1/2 plane. The No.155 listed is a quarter round plane similar to left pictured plane. The catalog has lists Table planes (pairs) as numbers 185, 186, 187, and 188 with various features from 1/2 to 5/8 inch.
You will note that the quarter round plane cutter in the plane pictured needs some work. It is out of round

Lastly the right pictured plane is the one I remembered that does not have a fence. You can see nail holes where a fence was applied. What is this plane called? Maybe you first cut a rabbet to fit into where the cutter is. Looks painful to use. I will have to try more experiments to figure it out I guess. I failed earlier and put it aside.

Back in Houghton now. :-( 213 more days.


----------



## sansoo22

This is Chunky. He is an English made 4-1/2. He got his name Chunky by weighing as much as my American made No 7…or at least it feels as heavy. He also doesn't seem to care what type of wood you put in front of him. This is full width shavings on a chunk of hard maple I'm using for my new shooting board.









Just for fun, and because its my first time working with hard maple, I decided to polish the lead edge of the chip breaker. To my surprise i started pulling super tightly curled shavings. Not sure if it was the polishing or the fact i was working on taking some twist out that caused the shavings to spool up like that. 









This is my only English made plane and I got it just to try out the heavier casting. I'm quite pleased with how quickly it smoothed hard maple today. It doesn't feel all that well balanced with so much weight in one hand though. Kind of tough on my bum elbow but I didn't have to use it long.


----------



## sansoo22

Here is a Type 19 No 3 I've been working on for the last few evenings


----------



## corelz125

You been busy sansoo nice job


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The No. 50 still works!


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'm jealous of yous guys that have been out in your shops fixing up and/or using your old planes, etc. It's been a while now since I have been able to do that. I have been mostly in the planning mode for a couple weeks now all to do with the portable workshop building we ordered. Finally just this morning placed an order for the wood stove to go in it. Still waiting on the electrician to talk with us on what we can do for electrical in the building. Wont need much since I am concentrating on a near un-plugged workshop. Will still need overhead lights of course and a couple outlets. 
Anyways, great looking 4 1/2 sansoo. I think you will enjoy that tool. The number 3 looks too good to use. : ) . 
Smitty, you are really making me jealous with the hand tools making drawers. Can't wait to get back to doing some of that. The dust should settle on the workshop building stuff come about the 20th, I hope. 
Combo Prof, sorry I can't help you identify your wood planes. Look interesting though. the one on the right in that picture you show looks like the profile you would see for a cabinet door with a lip.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Blaster, good news: A Drawer is Born!










You'll get there, and when u do, it'll be great!!

Edit: Drawer made using tools from chest, exclusively. Small victory!!


----------



## sansoo22

Thanks for the comments on the No 3. It only looks so good because I couldn't figure out what to do with my old Delta bench grinder. Both wheels on it were getting really worn and its the old 5" size which doesnt seem to be too common anymore. And the 1/5 HP isnt much for a grinder. However it runs super smooth so I figured I'd try it out as a poor mans polisher/buffer. I think it worked out quite well.

Blaster, that No 3 isn't getting used. I'm probably going to toss it up on ebay to help pay for the new 8" variable speed bench grinder i just bought. I also don't really need 4 of them or maybe its 5. Not sure…lost count


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Because sometimes nothing else will do.


----------



## HokieKen

Damn Smitty. You make me hurt man! That ranks right below this on my wish list.


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, I didn't realize you had the original box! Pretty neat.

So, drawer done, what's next?

Ken, I wouldn't mind having a Rogers as well.


----------



## BenDupre

> Because sometimes nothing else will do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


WOW


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## sansoo22

^^^ what he said! Saw one of those come up for sale at a local antique dealer not long ago and it was way outside my price range. Would love to have one some day tho


----------



## donwilwol

Smitty's making it real!!


----------



## bandit571

Ok..Millers Falls No. 75? I have the base, knob, and the depth adjustor sitting here…..need to find a iron and a cap for it, sometime. What am I looking for…..cap wise?

Plane seems to be a knock-off of a Stanley #220…..except for the bolt through the knob. Has "Millers Falls No. 75 stamped into the side of the base. Might be worth the effort to fix up?


----------



## DanKrager

Wrong thread.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Edit - oops - wrong thread


----------



## sansoo22

Here is my labor of love as of late. Its a Bedrock 604C Type 6a. This is the one i got for $15 at a yard sale. It came with the incorrect lever cap and iron for its type. I don't know much about bedrocks so i cleaned it up once already to make it usable. Then a little over a week ago I was talking with Bob Kaune about an iron for a Type 10 No 7 and he helped me identify the Bedrock and guess what ol' Bob just happened to have the correct parts to finish out this bedrock.

Here she is all prettied up to the best of my ability




































Sure I spent more on it than necessary but in total i've invested $100 bucks in this beauty and I am quite please with how it turned out.


----------



## HokieKen

I ain't going down the Buck Rogers rabbit hole. But this jack might go sub-$100 and appears to be complete, original and in good shape. Just a PSA.


----------



## corelz125

$100 for a bedrock is still a decent price. Nice job restoring it.


----------



## sansoo22

This No 4 Type 19 I did for a customer. I'm actually doing a matching No 5 for her as well. She was in woodcraft the other day looking at bench planes while i was there looking at shoulder planes. She randomly asked me why they cost so much. I said honestly I dont know because ive never used there bench planes. Turns out her husband just started an interest in woodworking and she was looking at getting him a 4 and 5 for Christmas. I told her I could probably source a couple Stanleys and tune them up for the price she would pay for a single new plane. 



























I'm a little nervous selling to a stranger but I've sold a couple restores to some co-workers that are in to wood working and they really like how they perform.

PS - I also mean no disrespect to WoodRiver bench planes. I've never even used one. Not even the display at Woodcraft because its always been dull when i go in.

PPS - It did feel good to steal a sale from the snooty hand plane jerk hole at Woodcraft tho. Man I can't stand that little guy.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Very nice work!


----------



## Lazyman

Wow, those look as good as new…I am sure better since they are all tuned and ready to got. If my wife had run into you and bought those from you I would certainly be happy.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Nice work on the plane, but that's a slimeball move. The only reason that you and this woman (I hesitate to call her "your customer") came together is because someone within the woodworking community put their money on the line to open and support a retail establishment - not a small commitment. Regardless of what you may think of one of their employees, that deserves at least enough respect to not try to steal business under their own roof.


----------



## sansoo22

I apologize if I offended anyone with my "stolen sale" remark. It was mostly made in jest. I was not there to sell anything to anyone. When asked a question I answered the same way I would to anyone new at wood working. The same advice given to me by other experienced woodworkers and given countless times on this forum. Only difference is I was at their store and not on a forum. If it a makes a difference I wasn't the first one to instigate a transaction. But I'm also not in the business of turning down revenue because of the location.


----------



## corelz125

Thats in better shape than the plane she would of bought I see nothing wrong with how it went.


----------



## RWE

I have had salesmen at Woodcraft tell me not to buy their own product, to look elsewhere. Some of the Woodriver stuff is just not great quality. I picked up a diamond plate that they had on sale and it is already coming apart. No comparison to the DuoSharps that I own. Shopping there is like shopping at a big box store versus going to a good independent hardware store. If you are careful in your purchases and don't buy a lot of the store brand, you can do okay.

I buy pen kits, which are good, some of the Veritas products, bandsaw blades and such. I have a friend that supplies me with all the wood that I can use. Occasionally I might buy some wood there, but it seems always overpriced for what you get. If I can buy at Woodcraft for a fair price versus what I can get on Amazon, I will make the drive to support the store. It costs something to keep a brick and mortar storefront and I will pay a bit more to get to inspect the item. I however, will rarely buy a Woodriver item.

I think you did the lady and her husband a favor.


----------



## P89DC

Considering the underhanded manner that Wood River planes came to the market what's the big deal. Supporting a vicious dictatorship that persecutes its citizens in places like Hong Kong is par for the course. Who cares about the Uyghurs when there's cheap hand planes to be had. Under-cutting North American workers is fun!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

sansoo22, you have absolutely nothing to apologize for. Commerce is commerce; you offered a product at a lower price. As Eric pointed out, Wood River planes came into the market just that way. Except in your case you certainly provided a better product.


----------



## JayT

I agree that you didn't do anything wrong, sansoo. You were asked a question, gave an honest opinion and ended up with a transaction. If her husband does delve deeper into woodworking and hand tools, he'll have a resource and probably end up spending a bunch at Woodcraft anyways. If she was going to spend enough to buy two Wood River planes, you might suggest she take the difference between that cost and what you are charging to buy a Woodcraft gift card for her husband for other woodworking needs. Sharpening stones would be a good start.

Nice work on the restore, BTW.


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## sansoo22

JayT - Very good idea on the gift card. I didn't even think of that. I didn't dive into details on how much experience he has with hand tools. She didn't know much more than every time they went to woodcraft together he stopped and looked at those 2 planes. I will message her your idea. If he doesn't know how to sharpen I might offer to teach him and show him what a basic setup looks like. I bought most of my DMT Dia-Sharp stones at Woodcraft. Their price isn't far off from Amazon and DMT has had some runs with bad plating so safer to have a place to return those.

Now that i think about it most of my restoring tools are from Woodcraft. Surface plate, DMT stones, DMT paddles, hand full of odd ball files, angle jig, and a few bevel jigs.


----------



## WillliamMSP

> When asked a question I answered the same way I would to anyone new at wood working. The same advice given to me by other experienced woodworkers and given countless times on this forum. *Only difference is I was at their store and not on a forum. *
> 
> - sansoo22


And that's all the difference in the world - anyone telling you different has never had any real skin in the game.

I've owned a store and helped run others (none related to WWing, but all specialty interest). Probably the biggest challenge for a business is to get people to come through your door and that's the main reason that franchises exist. You didn't get that woman or her husband to come through your door - Woodcraft got them to come through their door. More specifically, the person that owns that franchise laid out a half million dollars or more to get them to come through their door.

Ask yourself this - would you have made your pitch with the store owner standing next to you two? Would you ask the owner if he/she would allow you to put up a desk next to their planes so that you could offer your services? No, no you would not, and that should tell you something.

Apologies for the tangent, all - this is sore spot for me and, given the regular complaints about a lack of local options, I'd think that more people would understand the objection. I guess I was mistaken. Rather than comment further on this, I'll go back to silently admiring the planes.


----------



## HokieKen

I totally see where you're coming from Bill. And must admit that in Sansoo's shoes I probably would have done the exact same thing and done so with no ill intention. Just thinking of it as a way to help an aspiring woodworker. But, you make a good point and poaching someone's customers in their place of business is a pretty crap move and I would never do so intentionally. I don't think Sansoo started out looking for a customer though as much as he was just offering advice to someone who asked for it. And for that I see no fault. It's up to Woodcraft to carry good products at competitive prices and have staff who can show people the value.

And, I totally agree that keeping stores like Woodcraft in business is in our best interest. At least it's in my best interest. It's literally the only store I have locally where I can get any WW supplies other than what Lowes/HD and True Value have.


----------



## Mosquito

Debating if I wanted to chime or not, but I do have to say I agree with Bill on principle. Sure would suck if someone came in to my place of work, and told my manager they'd take my promotion for half the salary after it was offered to me… Little different perspective, but similar idea. That said, Woodcraft doesn't retail tuned up vintage tools either, so I can see where it gets fuzzy. Maybe next time just some friendly encouragement to do it themselves, after all, we could use more people looking to buy our first round when we move on to the "step up" planes right?  From a fair bit of what I've read, and the 2 bench planes I've had the opportunity to try, the Woodriver bench planes actually aren't that bad. I'd still take a LN if being given, but have seriously considered buying Woodriver bench planes in the past


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I just didn't think an apology was needed. That, and I don't like name calling.


----------



## CL810

I agree with your reasoning Bill. I was a business owner and would never have let my competition sell their services in my stores.

And for the record, I don't like name calling either. Life is hard enough, let's make it easier.


----------



## HokieKen

Y'all can call me whatever you like, just don't call me late for dinner!


----------



## sansoo22

For the record I would in fact tell the owner to their face that I believe I can produce a better quality product for less money. The truth is not dependent upon the venue from which it is spoken. If I thought we could come to favorable terms on a consignment deal to sell restored planes at the local Woodcraft I'd be all for that proposal. I think a consignment shop for quality maintained used tools is needed because Craigslist and FB Marketplace are wonderland of lunes, flakes, and rust garbage.

This whole thing started by me stating what I believe to be true. "The best way to get into hand planes is to buy a cheap one off of ebay and restore it to user quality. In my opinion its the only way to learn how they really work. All of my personal planes are restores that I've bought or have done myself." In hindsight I shouldn't have eluded to the fact I do restore them as that's when the questions about how, where, and how much started.

I got the impression after she started asking more questions about this idea that she couldn't afford both planes as a gift and she really wanted to get both for her husband. I'm not sure because I didn't ask about her personal finances. To play it safe I followed up with JayT's idea for her to get a gift card to Woodcraft.

Had it not been Christmas time I probably wouldn't have accepted the work. Call me a sucker for the Christmas Spirit but I take real joy in making people happy this time of year especially. To see her smile when I said I could deliver both planes in time for Christmas made her day.

I hope this better illustrates how things went down. May you all have a wonderful Christmas! May we please get back to sharing pics of awesome planes now.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Pics of planes? I got some of those. From the 'archives…':


----------



## HokieKen

In the spirit of Christmas, I think you should probably take whatever money you made and buy all of us a Christmas plane. I'd like a low angle jack Sansoo Clause!


----------



## theoldfart

Mongo want No. 9!


----------



## corelz125

Can I have a millers falls #24? Very nice smitty.


----------



## HokieKen

Only if you fight me for it Corelz! ;-)

Kev, I have a nice #9 I could swap ya. There's a type 1 on ebay I been kinda drooling over anyway


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Under lock and key, Kevin.










Kenny, let's see! Don't recall you having said mitre plane. Cool!


----------



## Mosquito

I'll buy you a #1 if you buy me a Mayo's patent plow?

Second thought, maybe I'll buy you a pair of #1's if you buy me a Sauer & Steiner K18…


----------



## sansoo22

My wallet is afraid of all the Miller Falls talk going on right now. It knows I cant stop at just one and would be forced to collect a whole set.

Kenny the best I could do is set up the bevel on this No 3 to be a high angle cut…im in the market for a low angle myself. Just finished this type 18 today actually.

























And a sneak peak at a couple sweethearts im restoring as my personal users. A type 13 no 4 and type 14 no 3


----------



## sansoo22

Smitty - Is that a 7 or 8 with the near perfect logo on it? That thing is fantastic. My only plane kept indoors under lock and key is my sweetheart No 2 with an intact orange frog.


----------



## HokieKen

Oh, wait… #9 is a miter plane? It's also a #4 sized Millers Falls smoother. I wondered why that would be on Kevin's wishlist ))


----------



## theoldfart

I have my grandfathers MF 9 smoother. Kenny, you noticed Smitty has his No. 9 mitre plane under lock and key, I was drooling on it when I visited him a few years ago!


----------



## HokieKen

I was unaware of that miter plane before Kev but I sure know now! Your Grandad had good taste ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sansoo, you need this No. 5 1/2 with orange frog.










Yes, it's a Type 13 No. 8. Heft and Hubris Incarnate


----------



## sansoo22

I love that No 8. That is also my favorite plane to use for some reason. Line it up, keep it straight, and watch it plow thru anything in its wake. I have a type 14 no 3 with a hint of its logo left and I'm torn if i should restore it or not. The frog on those are my favorite to use and I plan on keeping it until I can no longer use it so im leaning towards restore.

My only good logo plane is this No 95 which I also still use whether i should or not. Comes in super handy if you need really crispy edges.


----------



## bandit571

Random…








































































I think that will do..for now…
This recent project was delivered last Sunday, as a Christmas present to the wife's Pastor…


----------



## HokieKen

I know I've said this before but I need a MF 11 and a MF 22 to round out my till. A number 7 and a 24 would be welcome too but probably not in my price range.

Just in case Santa is listening…


----------



## corelz125

Kenny I asked first. Kevin is smittys shop like the Smithsonian for hand planes?


----------



## theoldfart

Do you mean the Smittysonian?

Go back a bit in the SoS thread and look at the pics. It is a place that encourages creativity and a home for some of Stanley's finest.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Well, I like it. And Kevin, you're too kind. It's just a shop.


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty,
1. It is a nice shop.
2. What comes out of it is quality workmanship.
3. The guy that works there is quality as well.

That should cover it.

PS. Just realized you moved the bench.


----------



## donwilwol

Busy place. All I have is happy holidays all!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hey Don! Happy Holidays!

Kevin, bench is too heavy to move. I'm working on clearing clutter though. Thx for the kind review, stop by anytime!

EDIT: Thx Kenny!


----------



## HokieKen

Why is it that when I see pictures of other peoples' shops they always have room to walk through them? Am I the only one with a "minefield" shop? ;-)

That's a great looking space Smitty


----------



## Lazyman

The rest of us are too embarrassed to show pictures of our shops. Mine looks like a minefield after a herd of cows roamed through it.


----------



## HokieKen

The only way a cow is fitting in my shop is ground up and vacuum sealed Nathan.


----------



## Lazyman

Dang cows.


----------



## donwilwol

Are you suggesting you should be able to walk through without stepping over (or tripping is probably a more appropriate word) stuff?


----------



## HokieKen

Absolutely not Don. I just think Smitty's doing it wrong.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Are you suggesting you should be able to walk through without stepping over (or tripping is probably a more appropriate word) stuff?
> 
> - Don W


I prefer the term: "waltzing".


----------



## corelz125

Smitty's posts have some planes of all my hopes and dreams Kevin. So I'm not the only one if you walk to close to something theres a chance of a small avalanche. 90% of the time i usually find what im looking for in my mess though. I swear tape measures get up and walk away all by themself.


----------



## HokieKen

Of course they do Corelz, they usually have 12-30 feet. What else would you expect? ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

I'll throw a shop picture up, but it is fairly messy at this point lol










Smitty's shop is truely aspirational…


----------



## Lazyman

Fairly messy. Hah. You could fit a couple of cows in there and still work around them.


----------



## Mosquito

didn't say I didn't have space, just that every flat surface is currently full of stuff, except the business end of the two table saws lol


----------



## sansoo22

Are the amount of cows you can fit in your shop space the new measurement standard? If it is I think we need to define the type of cow. Are we talking bulls, heifers, steers…if steers are they market ready or yearlings? I'm totally fine using cows I just want to know which standard to use before I call my rancher buddy and have him come by with a trailer full to see how many fit in my shop.


----------



## DanKrager

I have a three bull shop.

That has a sort of alliterative ring to it doesn't it?

DanK


----------



## DonBroussard

I only have enough room in my shop for one syringe of bull semen.


----------



## bigblockyeti

> didn t say I didn t have space, just that every flat surface is currently full of stuff, except the business end of the two table saws lol
> 
> - Mosquito


I have the same problem now (especially now) and before when I had more space, except for the tiny house, to spawl out and give everything a little room to work around. I could, and actually like to, build a 40×80 multipurpose shop and I'd still have it full of crap in 5-10 years.


----------



## bandit571

I don't know about how many cows could fit in my shop….there is a lot of Bull going on down there….









And this is on a good day…


----------



## HokieKen

Alright fellas. I think we've milked the cow joke enough now. Time to moooove on to something else.


----------



## donwilwol

> Alright fellas. I think we ve milked the cow joke enough now. Time to moooove on to something else.
> 
> - HokieKen


That's udder nonsense!


----------



## DanKrager

I'm "high tailing" out of here. These guys are just plane nuts!

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

I feel like I'm not being herd here. It's time to steer this thread down a different path or just put it out to pasture.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^He said that because he cud.


----------



## HokieKen

I'll have to chew on that one for a bit Smitty.


----------



## RWE

I will be the Bell Cow and take you fellows to another pasture.

Who made this Dunlap #3 ?

I am guessing it is a Stanley with the Sargent lateral adjuster. I studied Don's Timetested Tools a bit and came to that conclusion. Based on his article about putting a Hock iron in a similar #4, and everything else I can find that would be my guess. Can any one confirm this or is it a Sargent made plane. I am hoping someone will know by the frog shape.

I have a 60's era Dunlap (new in box) that I always believed was a Sargent, but now I am not sure about it either.

This fellow came to me as a free gift and I am going to try the iron. If it keeps an edge ok, if not I will put a Hock in it. The iron is marked

DUNLAP

APPROVED

BL




























I have been working on some Shaker pencil boxes for neighborhood kids (in background).


----------



## HokieKen

There were some Dunlaps made by Millers Falls RWE. I have a 4DBB (I think) that I believe was MF made but right now I can't recall why I came to that conclusion. Mine has the oval Dunlap logo debossed in the lever cap and "Made in USA" cast into the body behind the frog.


----------



## RWE

This plane had a plain unmarked lever cap. Only markings on it are Made in USA on the body behind the frog. It looks like it is an older product. Has brass on the knob screw and nickel on the rear handle screw. May be a Franken plane. The lateral adjuster looks like a Sargent style.


----------



## bandit571

Easy way to tell a Millers Falls Dunlap…..look at the base of the front knob….casting is sloped up just like a normal M-F plane…








RWE: that looks just like a Type 5 Sargent made plane….look underside of the frog..and find a 408 cast there..









Like this Sargent 408…


----------



## 33706

I just remembered why I never go to the Stumpy Nub's thread!! LOL!!


----------



## corelz125

So that explains it Kenny all of them feet its hard to hold them down. Good one. Thats a nice looking tote on that RWE that's the original?


----------



## RWE

Excuse the tardy reply. A nap took me.

Well the casting is rough. Hard to make out the numbers.

My guess is 5272. It is a #3 sized plane.










Made in USA is only marking on base










Does 5272 line up with any model numbers for Sargent?


----------



## RWE

OK. I think we have a winner now. 5272 matches a number listed in Don W.'s Timetested Tools article for a Sargent made Fulton.

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2019/09/15/a-history-of-the-fulton-model-5260-and-5262-cast-iron-bench-planes-sold-by-sears-roebuck-co-2/

So this is probably a Fulton with a Dunlap iron or a Dunlap clone of the Fulton 5272. In either case it would be made by Sargent and therefore worthy of respect and honor in my shop. I will check out the iron and may put a Hock in it.


----------



## donwilwol

Dunlap and Fulton were both Sears brands, so it wouldn't have been a Fulton clone, it was already a Sargent clone, which was already a Bailey clone.

I don't know if Dunlap numbering ever followed Fulton, but I'm not sure it would matter, by then parts were parts and it was getting them out the door.

I have noticed that a mix of older parts seemed to be more prevalent in house brands made by Sargent. And we all know that none of the manufacturer's worried about type studies, but I'm pretty sure when Sears ordered, they dug out the old parts.


----------



## RWE

I think you are correct Don W. Grabbing parts to fill in order explains the frog with a Fulton number 5272, the brass capped screw on the front knob and the nickel on the rear tote and a Dunlap iron. If I read the article correctly this 5272 frog was a 1930's period offering.

So it was born a Frankenplane. I put it together last night and tested it. Made nice shavings. Added it to the collection. I have a K 3 (Keen Kutter/Stanley Round Bed Rock), a Lakeside 3 (Union) and now the Dunlap (Sargent).


----------



## sansoo22

Got the No 5 type 19 to go with the No 4 I posted earlier done today. I think it turned out really well.









Here it is with its other type 19 friends









Here is I believe a sweetheart era no 192 in pretty awesome condition. It has the right logo and a patent date on it. I'm just missing the original washer and thumb screw for the depth stop. For 20 buck I think its still a good find.

















And finally just a random pic of the 4 planes I used to re-flatten my workbench. Still needs a tiny bit of work. I can just barely fit a sheet of paper under my strait edge in the center.


----------



## donwilwol

I picked up this Bailey #2 with a Bedrock cap yesterday.


----------



## JayT

Nice snag, Don. Only question to me is which is worth more, a Bailey #2 or the lever cap.


----------



## sansoo22

Don - When an No 2 is in that condition are you allowed to restore it or is it still better off left as is? I have a No 2 that i've left dull on purpose so I'm not tempted to use it but I'm always curious when it might come in handy.

And since I already had 5 or 6 planes out flattening my bench (if one gets dull i just grab another) I decided it was a good time for the semi-annual cleaning and oiling. While I had them all out i decided to grab a quick pic of my meager collection.








I know that's not all of them tho…I see my shooting plane peeking out under the bench and there are 4 or 5 more in various states of restoration. Pretty sure November is breeding season for planes in my area.


----------



## donwilwol

> Don - When an No 2 is in that condition are you allowed to restore it or is it still better off left as is? I have a No 2 that i ve left dull on purpose so I m not tempted to use it but I m always curious when it might come in handy.
> 
> - sansoo22


In general, if it's not a rare piece, and in that condition, a restoration increases it's value. ALWAYS make sure you know what you have before you do anything though.


----------



## DonBroussard

I must have been a good boy this year. My wife got me the mirror image twin planes, the Stanley 98 and 99 side rabbet planes. It looks like the 99 is tapped for something (depth stop?) but the 98 is not.


----------



## 33706

Happy New Year to all my fellow chuckle-heads!


----------



## TedT2

My auction find of the day…


----------



## TedT2

Not sure why all my pictures went sideways…


----------



## bandit571

Done in Portrait, instead of Landscape….


----------



## bandit571

The 2 planes I have been using, today…









Stanley #3, Type 11, Stanley #60-1/2 Cordovian….block had bounced off the floor the other day….didn't bother it a bit. Been busy..









Maybe?


----------



## sansoo22

This is for you Kenny…or maybe its because of you…all that talk of Miller Falls and sure enough I ended up with one. I have no idea what type it is but it has a patent date on the lever cap and the frog was still super red so i bought it. Hope you like it. 
































I tried my best to reproduce the pattern and colors for the handles. I think it needs to be a little more red but i still really like them.

And for the bonus round a Type 15 Stanley 4c
















This tote turned out awesome!

And look they're friends


----------



## corelz125

Nice grain on that Miller's falls


----------



## HokieKen

Sweet Sansoo! That's a nice #9  I forget the type but it's sometime around the war. They switched from brass to steel during the war and used the recessed adjuster knobs until early 50's IIRC. There's a type study somewhere…


----------



## sansoo22

> Sweet Sansoo! That's a nice #9  I forget the type but it's sometime around the war. They switched from brass to steel during the war and used the recessed adjuster knobs until early 50's IIRC. There's a type study somewhere…
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks! From the limited research I did i placed it somewhere between the end of WW2 and 1958 when the economy line came out. I see why you like them so much. It has so many shiny details in the depth adjuster area. And the lever cap can be used as a mirror.

The only downside to this one is it has a nick the full depth of the bevel. Need to get my new 8 in grinder unboxed and take that out. Then i can actually use it.



> Nice grain on that Miller s falls
> 
> - corelz125


It pushed my patience to get it sanded. Sanding with the grain when the grain couldnt make up its mind which way it wanted to go took awhile. Had to put it down and come back a few times when i got frustrated.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm..









A Type 4 No. 9…..last of the "good" ones, type wise…...There was a Type 2 before the war, a type 3 during the war, then right after the war they returned to the Type 2….until 1949…when this Type 4 came out….avoid the Type 5, if you can….


----------



## HokieKen

Here's the MF type study. You have a type 3 (1941-1949) Sansoo.

I have a mix of type 2 and type 3. Type 1's are fairly rare. Like Bandit said, anything but type 5 are solid users. Type 5's are pretty easy to spot - phillips head screws on tote and knob and the lever cap is no longer 3-piece. They can be made to work fine but it takes a LOT more work than with earlier models. I did a blog series on refurbing a type 5 number 22. It worked great in the end but the quality was significantly less than it had been previous to the efforts to save cost.


----------



## CL810

Sansoo, you sure do know how to refurb a plane. All of the ones you've posted have looked superb!


----------



## sansoo22

> Sansoo, you sure do know how to refurb a plane. All of the ones you ve posted have looked superb!
> 
> - CL810


Thank you very much. Believe it or not I bought my first 5 or 6 planes off ebay already restored. Paid too much for them with everything I know now but was worried I wouldn't be able to do a good job if i tried it myself. Looking back at my purchase history that was November of 2018…man ive spent a lot and learned a lot since then.

I have a few plane bodies in the spray booth, aka plastic tent in the basement, that im experimenting a few enameling techniques on. Trying to find a good process for restoring the super ugly and forgotten planes.


----------



## BillWhite

> My auction find of the day…
> 
> Great find. I'm BIG into W. Butcher tooling. I was even able to find a Butcher steel backed tenon saw.
> 
> - TedT2


----------



## bandit571

Will need a bit of work to rehab…









$34.86, counting sales tax. 









We have work to do…









And…parts to find…..
Stanley 71-1/2…Patent'd 10-29-01…..cutter is a 1/2" straight edge. Or was…...


----------



## HokieKen

99% sure I have a thumb screw for you if you need it Bandit.


----------



## DLK

> 99% sure I have a thumb screw for you if you need it Bandit.
> 
> - HokieKen


Its the depth adjustment screw he needs. Or dose he need both?


----------



## bandit571

Depth adjuster "disc".....might have a line on one….


----------



## bandit571

Depth adjuster wheel has been ordered.

easy-out was used…didn't end great….can tap to the next size up…

Cutter can be sharpened up, for now….kind of pitted. 2 knobs are installed. sole has been cleaned up, and is shiny, had very little nickel plating left. Seller had merely painted everything black…

May try tomorrow to finish the clean-up…waiting on the adjuster to arrive…


----------



## sansoo22

A couple more to share. First up looks to be a wartime no 60-1/2. Its dark blue without the handy grips on the side. Iron on this one was used up so picked up a Hock for it. Never used a Hock iron before and probably shouldn't have bought one. Now i want one in all my regular users.









Next up is what I believe to be a Type 5 No 6. The japanning is in awful shape but the rest of it is in pretty damn good condition. One single nick in the tote with no cracks to be found on either handle.









The lateral adjuster is the weird shape with 2 patents on the back









And the chip breaker has "L. Bailey's Patent DEC 24 1867" on it









This bad boy has to wait its turn in line for restoration but hoping to pull of some magic on this one.


----------



## theoldfart

^ flagged


----------



## HokieKen

Dammit Kev! Me and Sebastian were having a great time playing bubble shooter!


----------



## HokieKen

Nice work on the block Sansoo. I have one Hock iron and while I like the added thickness, I'm not sure it holds an edge that much better than vintage irons and it takes longer to sharpen. I think they're great blades and wouldn't hesitate to put one in a plane missing one but I probably won't be replacing the original irons in any of my planes with one.


----------



## rad457

*A couple more to share. First up looks to be a wartime no 60-1/2. Its dark blue without the handy grips on the side. Iron on this one was used up so picked up a Hock for it. Never used a Hock iron before and probably shouldn't have bought one. Now i want one in all my regular users.*
+1 on the Hock irons, have them in all my Krenov planes but all the old Stanley iron got PMV-11 irons now! Well except for the 604 Bedrock which I'm still trying to decide if that would be insulting to its heritage? 
Thought it would sit on a shelf but decided to clean it up and after a quick tune find myself actually using it


----------



## sansoo22

Kenny - Fair point. It was most likely initial impressions that got me all tickled. Ran the block across the edge of some maple and it came out glass smooth in a single pass so i was excited.

Andre - I have a Bedrock 604C i restored and I use it. Altho i have a couple Type 14 and 15 Stanley No 4s that will get restored soon and hopefully be as nice as the bedrock so i can retire it to a shelf somewhere.


----------



## DLK

> Depth adjuster wheel has been ordered.
> 
> easy-out was used…didn t end great….can tap to the next size up…
> 
> Cutter can be sharpened up, for now….kind of pitted. 2 knobs are installed. sole has been cleaned up, and is shiny, had very little nickel plating left. Seller had merely painted everything black…
> 
> May try tomorrow to finish the clean-up…waiting on the adjuster to arrive…
> 
> - bandit571


The Type 6. Stanley router planes 1902-1905 were I belive the first to include an "adjuster"

I began with a type 2 and it was fine but having the ability to fine tune with the "adjuster" is great. My Type 2 is now just for display.


----------



## bandit571

Adjuster arrived in today's mail box….getting it cleaned up, and the threads on the threaded rod cleaned up….

Kidney stone issues slowing things down a bit…..3mm stone might be a rough one to get rid of….


----------



## HuckleberryWoodWrks

Mine is a pretty basic wish list I was able to fill this summer on some good eBay finds. I'm sure the rarer stuff will end up on that list once I get better at the basics with hand planes.

Fairly new and def new to hand planes, so now to learn to use and tune them better!!


----------



## RWE

I posted back in November about a Stanley #36 Transitional that I picked up. I just got around to test driving it. It is probably as close to an infill that I will get. I have never yet seen an infill in the wild. This 36 is an early one, has an Eagle on the toe stamp and no lateral adjuster. What is interesting to me is the metal plate on the sole. It does have heft and cuts very well.

I presume that this might have been an aftermarket add on type of thing. You fellows that do metal work might have an opinion on whether a fellow could conjure this nicely fitted bottom in a home shop?










Side view:










Toe stamp:










No lateral adjustment:










Blood and Gore called it the transitional equivalent of a 4 1/2. Iron is 2 3/8 like a #6 or #7. It is 10 inches long with the Razee tote. I have never owned any of the 1/2 size planes. i think I am going to like it. May refurb and spruce it up, but I always have doubts about planes that are very old or somewhat unique.

Makes nice shavings:


----------



## RWE

Second plane that got a test drive today. When I picked it up, I thought it was an old Stanley, but it is a Rockford, an R6. Don pointed that out when I posted about it last November. I only see two Rockford planes on Ebay, so I guess they are a bit rare. It seems to be a decent user. Only problem is I like my 608 and usually jump from a 5 to the 8. Trying to embrace the 6's and 7's.

It was interesting to know that Rockford and Marsh were making mitre boxes and planes in the same building. I have a Marsh picture frame mitre box and very thin kerf Simmons saw that was made for the thinner blade guides on the Marsh.

Side view:









Makes nice shavings:










I spliced on a new top tip on the tote. Still working on it. Anyone else have a Rockford?


----------



## DanKrager

Put the 444 to use today cutting a joint dovetail that will wedge this seat into a sewing seat with drawers. It sure is slick…



























DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Argh, another one with a 444.
Overcome with envy.
Can't speak.
Sigh ….


----------



## RWE

Last and maybe least post today. I spent a lot of time sprucing up my little shop. Now my planes have a little better place to hang out.

It all started when a friend gave me four drawers that he had in what he called an old teacher's desk. He had painted the faces Hunter Green. So I built carcasses for the drawers and painted those Hunter Green. I put stained Oak banding around the carcasses and put them on my workbench lower shelf. That began the Oak and Hunter Green thing.

My shop is 14 feet by 14 feet and is overflowing. I could not find a place for all the tools that I had acquired over the last 4 or 5 years of Antique Malls and Flea Markets. So I had put up a panel system behind my bench. I decided to expand it and wound up covering one wall. So that gave me a 14 foot by 4 foot structure to hang things. The extra panels were ugly as can be, so that all became Hunter Green. Then the old plane till had to be refurbed, it was dingy white with Oak doors. The carcass became Hunter Green.

A lot of the change was also caused by a new to me bandsaw that took a bit more space than the one it replaced.

Anyway, I either have a temple and altar at which to worship the old tools, or a workshop, or some combination thereof.

So I have my own "Green New Deal". Moral of this tale, never accept free desk drawers.

(don't know why those vertical pictures get rotated, but so be it)


----------



## bandit571

Ok, threads cleaned up…wax the sole…take a few photos…









I think this might work out…









Sole has been waxed up, ready to work..









Not too bad…for just under $55?


----------



## sansoo22

Nice work Bandit. Looks completely different than where it started. For one it has real handles and not drawer knobs.


----------



## DLK

You will love it!


----------



## Mosquito

> Argh, another one with a 444.
> Overcome with envy.
> Can't speak.
> Sigh ….
> 
> - theoldfart


Yeah, but how many others have a Fales patent ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Oh, that's me!
Thanks Mos.


----------



## HokieKen

Well done Bandit. It'll run for another century now.


----------



## Mosquito

Kevin, now you need a Phillips patent to go with it… and I might just have a spare ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

I must admit that I had no idea what a 444 plane was. So I went to Blood and Gore and this was Mr. Leach's introduction:

*Runner-up to the Mr. Stupid Plane Pageant (in the event that Mr. Stupid Plane can no longer remain in that role, the runner-up shall assume the position and do guest appearances either on a televised workshop program decorated in plaid or Vegematic infomercials). This is a plane that only a mother or Rube Goldberg could love.*

I giggled a little bit ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ken, Ken, Ken…

Pls don't believe everything you read on Der Leachmeister's pages…

https://www.lumberjocks.com/Smitty_Cabinetshop/blog/35115


----------



## DLK

So *Dan Krager* I see you have gloves sitting next to your 444. Is this because Mr. Leach writes:

*I defy you to use this plane without drawing puss or blood!*

( Some day we should get together and exchange vowels. LOL )


----------



## Lazyman

Don't forget the 444 videos here and here.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thx, Nathan. I really should do Video 2 one of these days… Still have all the footage I shot back then, just never edited it into a finished product!


----------



## HokieKen

Interesting Smitty. Don't worry, I never disparage a tool with a function unless it has offended me personally ;-) I can say that this is a plane I'll probably never own unless one is given to me and I'm okay with that.


----------



## bandit571

Had a stack of 9/16" ash to plane down smooth and flat to 1/2" thick..









Decided to give this old V-line plane a go….been awhile…tested the set up on some Poplar









The irons on these are thicker than the ones Stanley used….and are stamped as "Solid Tool Steel" 









4 pieces, needing smooth and flat…and no burn marks…









They also needed squared up, and one cut to 2 end pieces…had to joint an edge or two..









At least I found some use for that fancy plane…









Ready for a few dovetails…one of the 2 "front" pieces is to be a drawer front…


----------



## RWE

Bandit:

Is that your own plan or are you doing the latest Paul Sellers project. He is making a dovetail box with a drawer in that new series. I am planning on giving it a go myself. Post some more pictures as you progress.

Sellers Dovetail Box with drawer


----------



## bandit571

Already doing a blog. I downloaded Sellers plans…









Will try a few dovetails later, today..









Maybe this weekend, I can start on the drawer?









may be "Fun"?


----------



## DanKrager

Yous guys are a stitch! Couldn't disagree with Leach more on how this plane works. This is white oak and it cuts like butter.

No, I don't use gloves w the 444 because it's hard on hands.

It's COLD!

And FTR, I use gloves with it year round to keep hand oils and salts from the finish, especially in the hot months.

DanK


----------



## RWE

Well I guess I need to look around a bit in here. I have never taken time to look at anyone's Projects or Blogs etc. I have noticed them occasionally. I will follow your progress on the box. Hope to start on milling my parts today. Got to decide on what wood to use first. I may start posting a bit in the Projects and Blogs now. Seems a better location for some things like the post I made on my shop renovation.


----------



## theoldfart

> Kevin, now you need a Phillips patent to go with it… and I might just have a spare ;-)
> 
> - Mosquito


Damned enablers.

Mos, i watched your video on the Fales. It looks like it would be a great center bead plane. There are a couple of center bead sets on the "Bay at $45 or so a set. Worth it?


----------



## miketo

> Kidney stone issues slowing things down a bit…..3mm stone might be a rough one to get rid of….
> 
> - bandit571


As the poet noted, this too shall pass.


----------



## donwilwol

I have a Fales, unfortunately it's only the body.


----------



## Mosquito

> Thx, Nathan. I really should do Video 2 one of these days… Still have all the footage I shot back then, just never edited it into a finished product!
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I can certainly relate… I have stuff going on 2 years old that's done, edited, I just have to do voice over for… Debating if they go in to the "never to be published" queue or not lol I'd love to see the next installment of #444 though. That plane is on my "some day" list for sure…



> Mos, i watched your video on the Fales. It looks like it would be a great center bead plane. There are a couple of center bead sets on the "Bay at $45 or so a set. Worth it?
> 
> - theoldfart


As long as they're in good shape and have both bases and the blade that's an ok deal in my opinion. The ones I've bought for mine that didn't come with my plane purchase (2 sets), I paid $35 for, so that's not too far off. It would be fun to get a full kit together, but that's 185 pieces lol

I think I saw the bases on eBay you're talking about, they tripped my saved search, but I already had all of the ones that were listed. I think I've got 16 complete sets, 3 body sets with no iron, and one that's got iron and no front base. So if you find a 1/4" beading front piece, let me know because I've got an extra rear piece and iron (I have a full set of 1/4" beading bodies and iron too, so they're extra)


----------



## corelz125

After watching smittys first video it made me want a 444. I have about 60% of one need a couple of more parts.


----------



## Mosquito

Phillips patent plow getting some bench time in to cut grooves for drawer bottoms. First tried to use my Record 043, but the lack of knickers really chewed up the cross grain part of the plywood. Yes it almost feels wrong using such a plane on plywood, but with the built in spurs on the iron, it worked incredibly well…










Though truth be told, I did resort to putting the dado stack in my table saw, and running the actual drawers that way… But if a person were in need, this would in fact work out well


----------



## JayT

^ Showoff.

Truth be told, I'm just jealous. That a beautiful piece of kit.


----------



## Lazyman

> ...but the lack of *knickers* really chewed up the cross grain part of the plywood. Yes it almost feels wrong…
> 
> - Mosquito


I don't recommend using that plane without pants.


----------



## Mosquito

What fun are they if they don't occasionally get used right? Sharpening the irons for that is a little more obnoxious though, with those wings on the side. Even though it's one of the earlier metal combo/plow planes, it's surprisingly comfortable to use. I like the size and the weight of it.

My two "shop goals" for 2020 are 

To improve organization and storage to the extent so that I can get rid of both old base cabinets that were there when we bought the house (1 is gone already, working towards being able to get rid of the second with the drawers I'm making now). 
Do a video of each of my "collection" non-45 plow planes, and use them at least once, if not more. So far I have one for Fales and Phillips, few more to go lol


----------



## Mosquito

> ...but the lack of *knickers* really chewed up the cross grain part of the plywood. Yes it almost feels wrong…
> 
> - Mosquito
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recommend using that plane without pants.
> 
> - Lazyman
Click to expand...

lol I always have the internal debate whether to call them nickers or spurs, and then auto correct kicks in and changes nickers to knickers lol


----------



## DLK

> ...but the lack of *knickers* really chewed up the cross grain part of the plywood. Yes it almost feels wrong…
> 
> - Mosquito
> 
> I don't recommend using that plane without pants.
> 
> - Lazyman
> 
> lol I always have the internal debate whether to call them nickers or spurs, and then auto correct kicks in and changes nickers to knickers lol
> 
> - Mosquito


This explains why *Lazyman* recommends not using that plane without pants. You might get your knickers in a twist.


----------



## Mosquito

not if you don't have any… I figured it was more the dangers of not wearing pants while having no knickers :-D


----------



## Lazyman

Pretty cool adjustable sole (or whatever you call it) plane at about 12:45 in this video about the Western Flyer restoration. Never seen one of those before. Their shipwrights bandsaw a little earlier in this video is pretty cool too. They are able to adjust the angle as they move beams through the saw to get compound and changing curves. It's a great video series BTW. Lots of interesting woodworking. Makes me want to quit my job and go to shipwright's school.


----------



## HokieKen

I think that's a 113 compass plane Nathan.









I'll have to check that series out. Looks interesting 



> ... Makes me want to *quit my job* and go to shipwright s school.
> 
> - Lazyman


You want to quit being retired??


----------



## Lazyman

I always say that retirement is good work if you can get it, Kenny. I retired when my job started looking like work (and I could afford to leave). Besides, I didn't say I want to go back to *work*. I would also like to go to blacksmith school.


----------



## DLK

> not if you don t have any… I figured it was more the dangers of not wearing pants while having no knickers :-D
> 
> - Mosquito


Well I suppose if you have no pants and no knickers, you might worry about your twig and berries. :-D


----------



## Mosquito

Kenny, I think it's actually a #20, or derivative thereof


----------



## JayT

Yep, a #20. I've got both and the 20 is much nicer to use than the 113, IMHO.

I might have to check out the Western Flyer series. I've been following Sampson Boat Co and his restoration/rebuild of a 100 year old wooden yacht. The guy is a first class woodworker and his videos are both entertaining and educational. Highly recommend if you have a chance. He's just down the road from jmart and bearkat, too.


----------



## bandit571

Hmm..wanted a narrower cutter for that "Coat Hook Plane"..









Took a fair bit of grind & dunk, and then the Dremel cut a slot…









Blank for the cutter used to be an Allen wrench….IF you look just above the lefthand handle, you can see the test drive strip. Measured the "new" cutter at 0.350"....might be close enough to 3/8" to work? 
Next up..well I do have a planks handy..









So…maybe a case/ box..to store it in? Not sure about one for the other router sitting there, since it also has a plunge base ….I do have a case for 3 other planes..









And..the lid even closes up..









Keeps the dust out, may try one for the 71-1/2? Maybe a fitted bottom panel to keep it in place?

We'll see…at least it will give me something to do over the weekend…since the Paul Sellers box is done..


----------



## sansoo22

Couple new additions today. First up a No 81 of unknown type. Doesnt have the original iron and i dont think the wood is original either. It was hand cut judging by saw marks but no idea what the wood species used is. When sanded its bright orange dust.

















Next up is a No 6 type 6 with an Erik Anton Berg iron in it. I've never actually seen an Anton Berg in this size before. I was kind of hoping the chip breaker was an EA Berg as well but its just a standard L. Bailey stamped variety.


----------



## bandit571

Trying to build a box for my 71-1/2 Stanley Router plane…came across a "plan" of sorts…









Might be able to improve on this…..maybe..


----------



## sansoo22

Bandit will you do us a favor and do a blog post if you improve upon it? My 71-1/2 needs a better home than a small plastic tub.


----------



## bandit571

Blog has been started….









Floor has been laid out…and a few dovetails done..









Will see about the rest of the dovetails, and start on a few grooves…only worked on this, for just under 2 hours, yesterday….want to stop by, and help out?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Bandit, just thought I would share…When I built a box for the routers, I thought about a cutter holder something on the order of what is there in the Stanley box you posted a picture of. However, after thinking it over a bit, I decided to lay the cutters down in a tray style holder. My reasoning was that I'm prone to accidentally brushing my hand against things, probably partly because my eye sight is changing in my golden years. My skin is not as tough as it used to be either and so I frequently discover that I have nicked myself not even realizing it.

Just a thought.


----------



## bandit571

A glue up has occurred today…









Even has a raised lid…


----------



## bandit571

Figured I had better see how much room there is..









Before I cover things up with a raised panel..


----------



## sansoo22

Sorry to interrupt Bandit. I bought this plane today and don't really know what it is.










Looks like a 122 but I've only ever seen those with the Liberty Bell on them. It was 10 bucks and I've never owned a wood bottom plane so figured why not give it a go.


----------



## bandit571

You might look up a Stanley No. 22…...


----------



## donwilwol

I think it's an Ohio Tools.

https://timetestedtools.net/2016/01/27/ohio-tools-planes-and-some-history

If you scroll down there is a picture of a similar plane.


----------



## corelz125

Ohiotoolcompany.com see if Brian can help you out.


----------



## sansoo22

Here is the side view which looks near identical to Bandit's Stanley 22









The lever cap looks like maybe it was a hand made replacement tho. Unless Stanley / Ohio used super rough castings back then. It makes setting the iron square to the mouth a bit difficult since the cap doesnt sit square. I think its all lined up and then i tighten it down and of course it moved on me.


----------



## donwilwol

I zoomed in on the cap. I think you're right, about it being user made.


----------



## sansoo22

> I zoomed in on the cap. I think you re right, about it being user made.
> 
> - Don W


I may try to find a legitimate cap for it. Once I flattened the sole and sharpened the iron I quite liked it. Took some fiddling to get it square of course but I could use it on reversing grain. The shape makes it easy to use in push or pull.


----------



## bandit571

Eric at nhplaneparts might have one….


----------



## sansoo22

Thanks Bandit. I was trying to remember the name of their shop. I didn't see one in the online store but used the contact form to see if they have something not listed yet. I found a liberty bell cap on ebay for $35 but that seems a bit high.


----------



## 33706

Are you sure it's a Liberty Bell?


----------



## sansoo22

> Are you sure it s a Liberty Bell?
> 
> - poopiekat


Nope. I sent pics to Eric at nhplaneparts last night and he says its a 122. At this point i just want a cap that fits correctly. I can make this plane work but i know myself and if its PITA to get adjusted i will never use it.


----------



## DLK

A while ago I made this box for my Stanley 71 1/2:

















ox for

Then I discovered my mistake. Inspired by the Paul Sellers videos I added a wooden sole to my Miller Falls 77s










now it won't fit into its box. Sad.


----------



## Mosquito

sad indeed lol Do you like the wooden base? I've seen him (and others) do that, but I've yet to try it on either of mine

You'll just have to get another one, so you can build a new box


----------



## DLK

Yes I do like the wooden base. It allows you to "pivot" over a larger area, and span a wider gap. It was useful when I made some boxes for my oil stones. My wooden base is made from some quality plywood.

I think I will just build 3 new boxes, for my 3 router planes., 
but maybe some day I'll find a Preston.

It was dovetail practice anyway. 
As you can see I need to work on my tail and pin layout LOL.

The box was made from SYP rescued from a pallet that was behind Sears.


----------



## Mosquito

Maybe that's why I haven't tried the plywood base yet, I've got a Preston style router plane, and I use that probably 95% of the time. I'm not entirely sure the last time I used my #71, now that I think about it…

I know Paul has had a plywood base for both styles, so maybe I'll give it a try sometime. Worst case scenario, I don't like it, back two screws out, and go about using it the way it was


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…will post as a project in a little bit, but..









Latch is fixed…









Ready for work….and









Ready for the shelf…


----------



## DLK

> Maybe that s why I haven t tried the plywood base yet, I ve got a Preston style router plane, and I use that probably 95% of the time. I m not entirely sure the last time I used my #71, now that I think about it…
> 
> I know Paul has had a plywood base for both styles, so maybe I ll give it a try sometime. Worst case scenario, I don t like it, back two screws out, and go about using it the way it was
> 
> - Mosquito


It may depend on what you are doing, but see the Paul Sellers' Mortise & Tenon Method 9:57. Actually he starts with a Preston and finishes with a 71 that has an added wooden base. It's clever what he does and you do get perfect tenons this way, but it is probably not as fast as just sawing them out.


----------



## HokieKen

I wonder where HO Studley would have tucked away his 45 and all its doodads?


----------



## DLK

I always wondered how he lifted the case.


----------



## Mosquito

I feel like if you're at the point that you can make, afford, and justify that tool chest, you probably "have a guy" for that lol


----------



## HokieKen

I guess dragging the chest to work was easier than dragging the pianos home ;-)


----------



## DanKrager

Combo, I wondered if the wooden foot would fit, perhaps with a bit of minor trimming, if the plane were set into your box upside down. It looks like there's a good chance it would. Just a thought "outside the box".  Store it right side up w/o the plate, and upside down with it, if it works.

Hokie, after building that chest he probably couldn't afford to buy the 45's and 55"s. You guys are beginning to inspire me to build such boxes, even though they (the 71, 45's, 46's and 55) have a fairly comfortable home in a till. Now, where did I put that chestnut? Oh, that's right. Never had any! LOL!

DanK


----------



## DLK

DanK: Possibly, I left the box home for the MF 77 in the shop at our retirement home while I finish up my last year of work in the frozen UP of Michigan. I have a few other ideas, if I should decide to make a new box.


----------



## Bertha

Not groundbreaking by any stretch or even a pompeo-like bombshell, I just got sick and tired of not having nickers, wanting nickers, looking for nickers, finding nickers, not wanting to pay for nickers, repeat.

I ordered 2 feet of 1/2 wide 1/32 flat O1 stock from McMaster (find it from somewhere else; I paused to have a snack and they cleared my cart for "inactivity"). It was cheap and came in a box big enough to live in.

Just transferred the shape with carbon paper. Yes, carbon, I use the hell out carbon without hesitation. Drilled a series of holes on the DP.










I've got a Foredom but I buy $5 Harbor Freight rotary tools and have one set for each bit. When they die (seriously almost never), you can swap it out without even unplugging it. Here was cutting and sanding.

I tried to do as much shaping as I could before I broke it off. It's a little bastard to hold on to. Bevels go in toward the captured iron. The first one had 2 blades and it was just 2 chances to screw up. The 2nd one with 1 blade went much faster



















This plane is a 9/11/83, so the thread pitch is weird. I just found something that worked, drove it all the way in, and cut off the waste. If you don't countersink, (nicker hole and screw) the screw head will act as a depth stop - not good. You can see this Oprah-looking screw head in place. I'll hit the hardware store and get a proper one, grind it flush, and cut a new standard slot.










C'mon, you know you've thought of doing this a thousand times lol.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice work Al. The price of those things is pretty unbearable, since they're oft lost or broken


----------



## Bertha

Someone with a better CNC than mine should cut out a whole sheet of these things and leave them tethered by a small slip. Even a few passes with an engraver could get deep enough for a cheap-ass woodworker to finish off. I'd pay $3 a piece, just not $30 a piece. Buying a plane for its nickers, etc. Sacrilege!

Just think of it, a sheet of O1 steel with 30 spurs cut on it, just waiting to be popped off and filed. I'd pay $100 for that in a heartbeat. It's probably $5 worth of steel and 30 minutes on a CNC. This is definitely a task that screams automation, and I usually hate automation. Who had a dado plane and g-codes?


----------



## DanKrager

...and being that thin, the cut should go pretty fast, too. That could be a winner opportunity for someone!

DanK


----------



## dbray45

Al - take one of those to a local machine shop and see if they will cut you a hundred of them with a water jet system.

If they cut you enough, you might get them for $1.00 each.


----------



## corelz125

Around here machine shops with cncs charge too much for anything. Nice work on it if I tried that it would look more like an oval. Every time I see that pic I can stare at it for hours.


----------



## DLK

Here is a Hamler Scraper Insert made from cast stainless steal.










It turns your number 7 (or 6, 5 1/2, or 4 1/2) into a long bed scraper:










They are now made by Bob Page of Loon lake tool works I was just in his shop and watched as he made the wax molds to send to the foundry. So another run will be available soon. Send him an email at [email protected] if you would like to be added to the Wait List. I would do this soon befor they run out again. It is very nice to have.


----------



## socrbent

fyi - there are some wood body planes and old folding rulers on EBTH.com. Look in the Home Improvement Category.


----------



## RWE

Combo:

What kind of price point on the Loon Lake scraper insert. That looks interesting.


----------



## DLK

They are $185 . But check his web site. He is also an expert at restoring and sharpening saws. You might find something you like.

Paul Hamler sold the molds to Bob, here is Paul Hamler's video. on the process. Check it out.


----------



## HokieKen

Lee Valley has a similar doodad. The one Don has looks much more substantial though.


----------



## DLK

That one from lee valley looks sketchy to me. The Hamler insert operates similar to what is in the Stanley 112.


----------



## sansoo22

I was happy NOT knowing the Hamler existed. I was also happy to NOT know about any other modes he made like that awesome fence for a #4.

I happen to have a spare #7 body and handles lying about so chances are if they do another run I will end up with one.


----------



## DLK

He has already started a run all ready. Get your name on the wait list, pronto!


----------



## sansoo22

I'm on the list! Now i have to come up with a project to justify the spend to the budget committee. She wants a new dining table…like a big one…that seats at least eight. I think a long bed scraper could come in handy on that.


----------



## DLK

Yea!


----------



## HokieKen

Yep it sure could Sansoo! I'd be more inclined to put it on a 4-1/2 I think personally. More along the lines of a 112 plane. I set my 80 and 12 pretty much flush with the sole. If I put it in a #7 body it wouldn't touch much….


----------



## sansoo22

> Yep it sure could Sansoo! I'd be more inclined to put it on a 4-1/2 I think personally. More along the lines of a 112 plane. I set my 80 and 12 pretty much flush with the sole. If I put it in a #7 body it wouldn't touch much….
> 
> - HokieKen


Hmmm now you have me thinking of ideas. I have a 12, 112, and 81 already. So i was mainly interested in a long body scraper for a 6 or 7. But now I'm wondering how this would work in something like an English made 4-1/2 body. They were a bit heavier than the American versions and a bit cheaper to pick one up for a permanent conversion. If my English 4-1/2 smoother is any indication once that scraper got started its not stopping.


----------



## DLK

I like that I can swap it in and out when needed into whichever plane I want. I like the long bed because the 112 can put dips in your work if you are are too aggressive. I think it will be great when its time to resurface the work bench.
I can attest that it is well made and that Bob is a superior craftsman.


----------



## bandit571

> Not groundbreaking by any stretch or even a pompeo-like bombshell, I just got sick and tired of not having nickers, wanting nickers, looking for nickers, finding nickers, not wanting to pay for nickers, repeat.
> 
> I ordered 2 feet of 1/2 wide 1/32 flat O1 stock from McMaster (find it from somewhere else; I paused to have a snack and they cleared my cart for "inactivity"). It was cheap and came in a box big enough to live in.
> 
> Just transferred the shape with carbon paper. Yes, carbon, I use the hell out carbon without hesitation. Drilled a series of holes on the DP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ve got a Foredom but I buy $5 Harbor Freight rotary tools and have one set for each bit. When they die (seriously almost never), you can swap it out without even unplugging it. Here was cutting and sanding.
> 
> I tried to do as much shaping as I could before I broke it off. It s a little bastard to hold on to. Bevels go in toward the captured iron. The first one had 2 blades and it was just 2 chances to screw up. The 2nd one with 1 blade went much faster
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This plane is a 9/11/83, so the thread pitch is weird. I just found something that worked, drove it all the way in, and cut off the waste. If you don t countersink, (nicker hole and screw) the screw head will act as a depth stop - not good. You can see this Oprah-looking screw head in place. I ll hit the hardware store and get a proper one, grind it flush, and cut a new standard slot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C mon, you know you ve thought of doing this a thousand times lol.
> 
> - Bertha


And..to think I had a spare or two of them spurs in my Stanley 45 box. As for a "new" bolt for the lever cap, use the front bolt from a stanley #78…..same damn bolt….


----------



## bandit571

Random hand plane pictures…was tapering some Shaker legs…









Jack plane to remove the bandsaw marks…









#3 smoother to smooth things up after the Jack was done…









Then, instead of any sanding….a fancy Jack plane took a swipe or two…









4 legs tapered 2 sides each…


----------



## ac0rn

I agree that one should hoard all the clamps that come your way. My current plane storage is the following picture, and are users. First time trying of pictures.









The following pics are recently inherited, some I will keep, but most will need to find homes.













































There are a few Stanley 8's in various states, and a shoebox of assorted shaves.

I do not intend to be a collector of planes. It might be a trying effort.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice pics, Jeff!


----------



## donwilwol

There is a lot to life, that was never attended. Resistance is futile.


----------



## sansoo22

> I do not intend to be a collector of planes. It might be a trying effort.
> 
> - Jeff


Welcome to the dark side Jeff. It's much more fun on this side. I never intended to be a collector either. I just wanted some basic planes plus a good jointer. Then it was "well a couple dado and/or rabbet planes couldnt hurt". That turned into "well it would be nice to have a full set of bench planes". I rationalized all of it by telling myself they were all users…who was I kidding. This year I gave up pretending and started a second set just for display.


----------



## HokieKen

Since you aren't a collector Jeff, I'd like to get my hands on that 112 scraper plane up you have sitting there


----------



## DLK

Speaking of the dark side … how do you organize your inevitable collection of small parts. I.e. pieces of miter boxes, planes, chisels that can't be re handled, but steel have useable tool steel, knobs, handles totes, irons, blades, specially screws, moulding plane bodies and so on and on and on.


----------



## RWE

Jeff:

Nice group of "users" for sure. Curiosity makes me wonder what brand of plane is it that has the elongated triangle shape in the rear behind the handle. The bottom 2 in your picture:


----------



## HokieKen

> Speaking of the dark side … how do you organize your inevitable collection of small parts. I.e. pieces of miter boxes, planes, chisels that can t be re handled, but steel have useable tool steel, knobs, handles totes, irons, blades, specially screws, moulding plane bodies and so on and on and on.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Small parts in a plastic bucket, big parts in an old milk crate. It's not terribly organize but at least I know where to look when I need such parts…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Jeff:
> 
> Nice group of "users" for sure. Curiosity makes me wonder what brand of plane is it that has the elongated triangle shape in the rear behind the handle. The bottom 2 in your picture:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE


I've 'typically' seen those ribs on Made in England versions of later Stanleys; also ones made in Canada.


----------



## sansoo22

> Speaking of the dark side … how do you organize your inevitable collection of small parts. I.e. pieces of miter boxes, planes, chisels that can t be re handled, but steel have useable tool steel, knobs, handles totes, irons, blades, specially screws, moulding plane bodies and so on and on and on.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I use these Rubbermaid Brilliance containers when I find them on sale or get a coupon for them. Not the cheapest solution in the world but they help keep out moisture and the crystal clear lets me easily see whats inside.

I try to keep the different generations of handles, chip breakers, lever caps, etc sorted into their own containers. I don't sort by size because that's pretty easy to figure out. But if you're doing restores you dont want to toss a type 16 tote on a Type 6. Painters tape and a marker works for a label on the container. They stack well in a set of lockers I have in my shop. I even use some of these during a restore. In the bigger container you can break down and store a complete 3 or 4 size plane.


----------



## corelz125

Is that a 10 and a 10 1/2 in that pic?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks like it to me, too.


----------



## ac0rn

Yes, As Smitty stated the 6 & 7 are both made in England. As are the 10 and 10 1/2.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Jeff:
> 
> Nice group of "users" for sure. Curiosity makes me wonder what brand of plane is it that has the elongated triangle shape in the rear behind the handle. The bottom 2 in your picture:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE
> 
> I ve typically seen those ribs on Made in England versions of later Stanleys; also ones made in Canada.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I believe that these are Stanley G12-00x, based on the text on the heel.

















Clifton alsomakes some with these ribs.


----------



## corelz125

Inheriting a 10, 10 1/2, 20, and a 112 that's like hitting the lotto.


----------



## theoldfart

Maybe even hitting it multiple times in a row, awesome opportunity.


----------



## ac0rn

corelz123- Yes it seems so. There is also a host of brace and bits, NIB Irwin, NIB Jennings, these are in the wooden boxes and then in the carboard shipping boxes. Old Tom liked to acquire all tools. He was a member of the "he who dies with the most wins!" Club. I'm not a member of that club (yet!) :>)

I started to do some typing of the Stanley benchplanes using the flow chart from *Wood and Shop*. with two of the planes I came up with a question [raised rib on tow (front) and heal (rear)?) which would determine type 15, or 16-19. I have a raised rib on the toe, but not on the heel. does this make it a type 15?

The English 6 & 7 are Stanley. see pic.









Intend to keep the 40 scrub, 112 scraper. Undecided with the 10, 10 1/2 as they would probably end up as dust collectors. I already collect enough of that. Will look through the cap and iron box to see if parts are there for the 4 1/2C type 11 as that feels comfortable. (Sansoo22- I heard your warning, and it is going to be difficult, I already have a 4 1/2 user, Is a second one going to make the first one feel bad? or glad of the company?)


----------



## corelz125

I would sell the 4 1/2 and keep the 10 and 10 1/2 in the condition they are in they make some good looking dust collectors.


----------



## sansoo22

> ...I already have a 4 1/2 user, Is a second one going to make the first one feel bad? or glad of the company?)
> 
> - Jeff


I think its like tag team wrestling partners. When one gets dull the other tags in. I'm pretty sure they enjoy each others company.


----------



## HokieKen

My 4-1/2 size plane is my go-to user. I can do everything from flatten small boards to smooth with that plane. I've often considered adding a second to my till and set one up for smoothing and the other for heavier cuts. If I run across a Millers Falls at a reasonable price, I'll likely give it a home.


----------



## donwilwol

I use my Sargent #410 quite a bit for sure


----------



## 33706

> My 4-1/2 size plane is my go-to user. I can do everything from flatten small boards to smooth with that plane. I've often considered adding a second to my till and set one up for smoothing and the other for heavier cuts. If I run across a Millers Falls at a reasonable price, I'll likely give it a home.
> 
> - HokieKen


What model designation did Millers Falls use to identify their #4 1/2 planes?


----------



## JayT

> What model designation did Millers Falls use to identify their #4 1/2 planes?
> 
> - poopiekat


The Millers Falls model 10 is equivalent to a 4-1/2.


----------



## 33706

Thanks,* JayT*!

The Millers Falls planes are an unknown commodity up here in Manitoba. The ones I have were either brought up north with me, or purchased on Ebay. Ditto Sargent planes.

Ty for responding!


----------



## DLK

My Stanley 4 1/2 and MF 10 used to be my go to planes, but I tuned up a type 17 Number 4 and I really like, it. For finish smoothing I may use the S 4 1/2, MF10 or a very nice transitional razee. For truing up a box, sometimes I need a longer plane. But I have 6 to 8 smoothers ready to go, (Stanley) sizes 3,4,4 1/2, 5 1/4. I rarely use the size 5. Don W sold me a 5 1/2 with a blade radius for scrubbing, which is what I use it for. I don't use my 6s and 7s much. I typically joint with the 8. Two of my 3 router planes are frequently used as is the Stanley 50 and sometimes a 78. For some reason I have 9 (maybe more I lost count) rabbet planes. I think 6 are fenced.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photo…


----------



## DLK

That plane did a nice job. I assume you used a baton or knife wall.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, Millers Falls #10 is my go-to. If I could only have one plane, that would be it. I also use my #15 (Stanley 5-1/2 size) quite a bit. My 8,9 and 14 (3, 4 & 5 sizes) really don't come off of the till very often at all. I just like the wider blades and extra heft that the "jumbo" sizes offer.


----------



## Mosquito

I used to mainly use my 4-1/2, but then got a 5-1/2. Lately I've been using the #6 though. Maybe in a couple years I'll be smoothing with a #8 lol

But today, it's this guy


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photo…









What it looked like after a chisel went through..before the 71-1/2 cleaned it up









As for a Millers Falls photo op…









No. 14 needed to trim a little of the edges of a drawer's back…

As for the tongue/tenon…..Mitre Box to make the wall cut….then a wide chisel to split off the waste, then the No. 181 cleaned things up….


----------



## DLK

I bet you are glad you got that 71 1/2!


----------



## donwilwol

Trying my hand at the YouTube thing. I'm still learning. Here's how I restore hand planes

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2020/02/09/bench-plane-restoration-guide-part-3-the-video-series-1/


----------



## bandit571

Still fiddling with it…..fussy little critter, takes a while to set the depth just right…might use it again.

Stanley 45 was also in use, today..









Ploughing a few grooves….Groooovy….


----------



## corelz125

For what you paid for it bandit I think you'll get your moneys worth out of it.


----------



## Mosquito

First task of any new plough plane is to make itself a stand…










And now it's part of "the lower 3". Though I still need to apply finish to the stand










(Yes, I plan to make another base for the Phillips patent)


----------



## theoldfart

Damnit Mos, I got the Fales and on the lookout for the Philips and you do THAT!



Looks quite fine actually, nicely done young feller.


----------



## Mosquito

Fortunately it came with a set of 8 irons. Unfortunately, it originally came with 9, and it's missing the 1/4" :-(

I felt slightly older than "young feller" at the MWTCA meet this morning when someone was asking if I was a new member. I asked what "New" was, and he said this year or last year. "Nope, this is my 9th. Oooh, 9 already… dang" :-D

I do have a "spare" Philips, it's sitting behind these 3, just sayin' ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice indeed, Mos! Congrats!


----------



## HokieKen

That's purrrdy Mos! That one probably takes the prize for the sexiest. Wonder why companies thought combination planes needed more decorative castings than other planes?

Edit to add: Hollar if you need a 1/4" iron made for it.


----------



## Mosquito

haha, thanks guys. Wasn't hard, just had to wait til I found the right deal :-D

Kenny, for me, it's almost a tossup between the #43 and the Philip's. Not quite sure what it is about the Philip's, but it seems to be the right combination of design and space for me…

I just might have to on the iron, as of yesterday there were only two 1/4" irons available on eBay outside of full sets. If it wasn't 1/4" I'd probably just skip it, but 1/4" is probably the one I use most out of anything. Plus, would need to involve another plane to do T&G with out it lol


----------



## Lazyman

What do you guys think of this ebay 45? Current price is $20.50 + $13 shipping. No cutters and obviously needs to be cleaned up but seems to be complete otherwise?

I am not going to bid on it so go ahead if you want it. Just wondering what you guys think for future reference when I finally decide to get one.


----------



## HokieKen

Mostly complete Nathan but it's missing the knob, thumbscrew to lock the front depth guide, short rods and I couldn't tell from any of the pictures whether or not the slitter was there. I'd pass at that price though. It needs way too much cleanup and the lack of cutters would kill the deal for me. You'd spend twice that amount + rounding up a set of cutters and the missing parts (if you cared about the missing parts).


----------



## DLK

I think $20.50+$13 is about the max I would pay for it.


----------



## rad457

> Fortunately it came with a set of 8 irons. Unfortunately, it originally came with 9, and it s missing the 1/4" :-(
> 
> I felt slightly older than "young feller" at the MWTCA meet this morning when someone was asking if I was a new member. I asked what "New" was, and he said this year or last year. "Nope, this is my 9th. Oooh, 9 already… dang" :-D
> 
> I do have a "spare" Philips, it s sitting behind these 3, just sayin ;-)
> 
> - Mosquito


My 45 came missing the 7/8"  lots on E-bay but I refuse to pay $30.00 shipping!


----------



## Lazyman

> I think $20.50+$13 is about the max I would pay for it.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Without the cutters and with the amount of rust, that is sort of what I was thinking too but since you see complete and restored ones over $200, more with complete sets of cutters, I just wondered what the experts would do. I didn't notice the missing parts that Kenny mentioned. Thanks guys.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Trying my hand at the YouTube thing. I m still learning. Here s how I restore hand planes
> 
> https://www.timetestedtools.net/2020/02/09/bench-plane-restoration-guide-part-3-the-video-series-1/
> 
> - Don W


I'm still working my way through these. It's nice to see where my techniques match yours, and especially nice to learn where they don't.

A minor point for improvement: please rotate your camera so that ALL the screen real estate is being used. Otherwise, you're throwing away 60-75% of the screens for any viewers watching on their PCs.


----------



## donwilwol

I figured out the camera flipping after I took most of the videos. Now I know. I will probably redo them at some point. I don't have another plane to restore at the moment.


----------



## HokieKen

Couple of ugly buggers from the great white north showed up orphaned on my front porch today.









Nasty lil' bastards eh? That's okay, all Millers Falls with 3-point caps and red frogs are welcome here! Especially those bearing the number 10 on their side )

Thanks to Poopiecat for sending me these guys from his "plane hospital"!


----------



## bandit571

A Rogue's Gallery..









That 3 of them made a mess on my floor…









The one in the back?...









Millers Falls No. 14…..


----------



## Mosquito

Cool stuff Kenny, looking forward to the "after" pictures


----------



## HokieKen

Can anybody find the plane tote templates on Lee Valley's new site?


----------



## 33706

*Ken,* I never could figure out that compound lever cap thing, and I've even tried using one on my best #4 Stanley to see if it performed better with it… it didn't.
I guess it's an acquired taste, these Millers Falls. But what do I know, I'm currently using old 'Footprints' as the planes closest to my bench these days.


----------



## 33706

Ken: When I need the template, I google "Lee Valley/ tote" and then go to images. All the configurations are there.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> Can anybody find the plane tote templates on Lee Valley s new site?
> 
> - HokieKen


'lee valley stanley replacement tote pdf' in search engine shows me new links:
https://assets.leevalley.com/Original/10090/56664-tote-template-for-veritas-bench-planes-c-01-e.pdf
https://assets.leevalley.com/Original/10090/56664-stanley-number-5-and-up-plane-tote-c-06-e.pdf
https://assets.leevalley.com/Original/10090/56664-stanley-number-3-and-number-4-plane-tote-c-07-e.pdf
YMMV


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I found the ones I needed via google poopiekat. I just wondered if they were still on the site or if they pulled them down.

In theory, the 3-point lever cap ensures that you have pressure at the "hump" of the lever cap like with all planes. But then up near the lever cap screw, there are two little raised nibs at the top of the bottom piece of the cap. When the lever is tightened, these nibs are pulled down and force pressure against the cap iron compressing it and the blade against the frog which is unlike typical lever caps. So a solid lever cap applies pressure only at the top and the bottom. The Millers Falls adds an extra location of pressure in between.

It's a good design and sound theory IMO. And it does work. Slip a piece of paper right below the screw and tension the lever cap and the paper is stuck. Do the same on a Stanley and the paper comes right out.

In practice however, I have seen no functional advantage. I've never had a problem with my MF caps holding the iron/chipbreaker sufficiently. On the other hand, I've never had a problem with a Stanley plane holding them either. Fact is, I just think they're sexy ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

> Can anybody find the plane tote templates on Lee Valley s new site?
> 
> - HokieKen
> https://assets.leevalley.com/Original/10090/56664-tote-template-for-veritas-bench-planes-c-01-e.pdf
> https://assets.leevalley.com/Original/10090/56664-stanley-number-5-and-up-plane-tote-c-06-e.pdf
> https://assets.leevalley.com/Original/10090/56664-stanley-number-3-and-number-4-plane-tote-c-07-e.pdf
> YMMV
> 
> lee valley stanley replacement tote pdf in search engine shows me new links:
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


Yeah, I found the links to individual pdfs via google. Just couldn't find where they were all located on the Lee Valley site.


----------



## bandit571

Maybe that is why Clifton used a two-piece design as well?

Strange fact file: Have never had any "chatter" using a Millers Falls plane. And, all of mine still have the OEM iron on board the plane.

Maybe make a few handles like this one?









IF you can find the wood….









Not as many curves, though, as a Stanley uses…


----------



## HokieKen

Nah. The Cliftons use a 2-piece chipbreaker Bandit so you can leave the top part screwed to the iron and remove the bottom for honing the back of the cutting edge. That way, you always have the same setting of the chipbreaker to the edge of the blade. I have a Record 07 that came with a Clifton chipbreaker and I hate it. I always forget about it and when I take the blade out, the bottom piece always falls off…


----------



## 33706

I always wanted a Clifton plane, but now I'm not so sure….


----------



## donwilwol

> I always wanted a Clifton plane, but now I m not so sure….
> 
> - poopiekat


You want one. I've only had one, and I'm told it was an earlier one, but it was an am amazing plane. Better than any bedrock for sure. I sold it to avoid the curse.


----------



## bandit571

A trip down to Springfield, OH….place called Heart of Ohio…along with a $3 saw..
.








There was a plane…even got 10% off….of the $25.00 price tag!
Plane might have too much paint…








All over the place..









Except for the handles…









And the sole…..lever cap will take a bit of work..









Millers Falls No. 15…..

Only went through half of the store…and was worn out….place is HUGE.


----------



## bandit571

And after a couple hours in the shop…








Sheer drudgery?








Even with an edge this bad..









Grind a new one, flatten the back, hone to 2000 grit, then strop









Means I have a "set" of Jacks..


















Type 3, from the WW2 era….









Solid steel bolts, steel has been blued. "Domestic Hardwood" for the handles.









Depth adjuster is also steel. Took a good wire wheel to strip all that maroon paint of…









Might be worth the 22.50 + Tax ?


----------



## HokieKen

Excellent Bandit! Worth at least twice what you paid. My #15 is one of my favorites.


----------



## ac0rn

Sweet


----------



## Phil32

Beware of sellers who cover everything with paint! I've seen old cars covered in primer paint, including the trim, rubber, etc. You're lucky.


----------



## HokieKen

I really like the look of the type 1 Millers Falls planes with the raised lettering around the knob. So every time I see one on Ebay, I watch it to see if I can get lucky and finally score one of my own. I guess there are other people who like the look *A LOT* more than I do…


----------



## donwilwol

Being a 10c helped it along some


----------



## HokieKen

True Don. But in that condition with a busted tote, that's still only $100 or so without those raised letters…


----------



## BlasterStumps

That seems to be the trend today on prices for old tools. Glad I got going on my "set" a few years back. My money wouldn't have gone nearly as far if I had to buy them today.


----------



## HokieKen

Unfortunately, the more we post about vintage tools, the more people become aware of their value. In turn, demand increases and, since there is a finite amount of them in existence, supply decreases. And prices climb…

So, shhhhhhh y'all don't tell anybody ;-)


----------



## 33706

> Unfortunately, the more we post about vintage tools, the more people become aware of their value. In turn, demand increases and, since there is a finite amount of them in existence, supply decreases. And prices climb…
> 
> So, shhhhhhh y all don t tell anybody ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


On the other hand…. if you didn't mention your need for a MF 4 1/2".......


----------



## HokieKen

Ahhhh yes, the other edge of the sword PK  Nevermind, y'all discuss ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

I don't have time to go get them today and I'm sure they'll be gone tomorrow. But if anyone is near Lynchburg, VA here's a pretty great price on some vintage Stanleys.


----------



## bandit571

Put this expensive plane to use, today…









Wasn't much room for error, either…









And that spot was actually too thick…..was finally able to get things to fit…









Lid now has bread board ends…


----------



## corelz125

Kenny that Millers Falls 209 on your ebay watch list?


----------



## bandit571

Turned a 5/16" Allen Wrench…









Into a 1/4" wide cutter for the Stanley 71-1/2









Test drive?









Cutters now include a 1/2" wide, a 3/8" wide, and the "new" 1/4" wide cutters..









So do about all, for me…


----------



## DLK

A spear point cutter is also nice to have.


----------



## bandit571

Random, Family Portrait, anyone?









Millers Falls bench planes….No. 8, 9, 8, 9, 11, 14, 15 right to left. First #8 is a Craftsman…

That big stanley to the left? No. 6…..


----------



## HokieKen

That's a beautiful lineup Bandit!


----------



## corelz125

Bandit do you own a MF #24?


----------



## BuddyC

So, I found this lil' Rabbet in an old tool chest I picked up recently. Everyone calls them Stanley, and the iron says so but what about the Keystone looking mark? Were these made by Keystone? I've not been able to find any info related to that.

BC


----------



## bandit571

> Bandit do you own a MF #24?
> 
> - corelz125


Not yet….I do have a Type 7 Stanley No. 8, though…..


----------



## DonBroussard

BuddyC - I have one of the little rabbet planes. The iron on mine says "Stanley Made in Eng" and there is a sticker with that same info with "England" spelled out. The body also has the same molded keystone like you showed in your pics.


----------



## corelz125

Not yet….I do have a Type 7 Stanley No. 8, though…..

- bandit571
[/QUOTE]

See many out in the wild?


----------



## bandit571

Not really…

Random plane photo? 









Stanley No. 7c…about a Type 9…









Still earns it's keep…mainly as a Jointer…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm sure this is a repeat image, but here are a few of my fave planes to use.










I'd add the No. 52 Shoot Board Plane and a No. 48 T&G Plane to round out the Stanley faves. Then I'd have to include the H&Rs to get all the best users in this kind of family pic. Then I'd be leaving out the No. 45, with specialty cutters and bottoms, and squirrel tailed blocks, and the cigar shave, and etc. etc. etc. 

Yeah, I continue to slide down the slippery slope. Maybe the rate of speed has ebbed a bit, but I'm still enjoying the slide.


----------



## theoldfart

Mongo want #9

Where's the 57?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Well… truth be told… haven't found a use for it yet. But for cool factor, it is certainly a leader in the pack.


----------



## corelz125

Smitty that's a #118?


----------



## bandit571

Second from right…Shelton 118 All steel…









There is also a Stanley No. 9-1/2 type 2…..not sure about that knucklecap thingy….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yes it is, Corelz. It lives in my tote and gets used a lot.


----------



## corelz125

Recently got one in a block plane lot. Was thinking if I should keep it or sell it. Maybe I'll keep it. That Shelton like like a Stanley clone.


----------



## bandit571

Someone got put to work today…









Along with the Stanley No. 7c…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Recently got one in a block plane lot. Was thinking if I should keep it or sell it. Maybe I ll keep it.
> 
> - corelz125


All I'm suggesting then is to sharpen it up and give it a go. The steel may feel a bit stickier at first; wax early and often and it'll sing. But if it's not your bag after all, that's okay too. I like it as a traveller; like Stanley said, it's 'Boy Proof.'


----------



## Mosquito

I have a Fulton version of a stamped steel Sargent I think it is. I use it often. By all accounts and "what to look out for"s out there, it should be a terrible plane, but I got it tuned up and it works fine for me. I never really made the connection, but I think you're right Smitty, the steel may be the determining factor for why I feel I need to wax it more often than other planes. I'm not sure I ever wax my cast iron block planes, come to think of it


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mos, interesting!

I guess I've learned by experience that steel needs more waxing than typical. These guys need it too.


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, the one in front, jumbo jack?


----------



## bandit571

Stanley S 5 in front of the Stanley S 4


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It does look 5 1/2-ish in the pic, but it's a straight S5. They live under the benchtop and get used quite often, actually .


----------



## HokieKen

My cast iron planes get some paraffin slapped on the soles a lot. I don't know how you do it Mos. As soon as it stops trying to run away from me, it gets another slappin' ;-p


----------



## Mosquito

my bench planes get a liberal waxing, just not my block planes very often. Maybe it's because I primarily use block planes for easing edges, and other small tasks, I don't feel the drag quite as much as trying to smooth the face of a board, for example? I'm not sure lol


----------



## HokieKen

Ahhh. I thought you were saying all cast iron planes. I don't wax my block planes very often either


----------



## rad457

Curious question, I usually flatten the bottoms of the plane with 220 grit paper which gives them a very nice polish, which I find requires very little waxing?
S model Stanley? Have never seen or heard of one? So after finally getting a Bedrock and a Millers Falls there is another type I have to get


----------



## corelz125

Smitty that just gives me another reason to keep another plane. Good news Andre they only made the s4 and s5 not as many to get.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

... and the 118, and the 104 (junk) and the 105 (also junk).

The steels get a nice polish, but are just kinda sticky anyway.

Your welcome, Corelz and Andre.


----------



## 33706

Hey, wait,* Smitty!!*
Are you saying that 104's and 105's are junk in general, or maybe just the two you have in your possession?


----------



## bandit571

Came through my shop, after a yard sale one year….this s4 and a Bedrock 606….were then sold to Don Wilwol….

Someone was very generous with that black paint…









Then some sort of gold paint on the frog pins on the 606….
IF you look through the header of the "Restorations…"thread….you will see that s4 after DonW had restored it….


----------



## corelz125

Smitty I blame you for chasing the 444. I have about 3/4 of one so far.


----------



## bandit571

The 104 and 105 was the Liberty Bell versions of a #4 and #5 iron bodied plane…same depth adjuster as the Liberty beel Trans. planes…


----------



## 33706

> The 104 and 105 was the Liberty Bell versions of a #4 and #5 iron bodied plane…same depth adjuster as the Liberty beel Trans. planes…
> 
> - bandit571


Thanks,* Bandit!*
I have a couple of examples of each, and never heard anyone expressing an unfavorable opinion about them before. But, then again, none of my cast bodied Liberty Bell planes are actually users.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

PK, the adjusters (from what I've seen online and read, I don't have either one) are not the best. They were economy line planes. Actually not that common, from what I gather. So between higher-priced and questionable quality, I've stayed at bay. All that said, I have an open mind. If you like them, that's a plus in my book.


----------



## 33706

> PK, the adjusters (from what I ve seen online and read, I don t have either one) are not the best. They were economy line planes. Actually not that common, from what I gather. So between higher-priced and questionable quality, I ve stayed at bay. All that said, I have an open mind. If you like them, that s a plus in my book.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Ty, *Smitty*!

Mostly the reason for people not finding favor with these planes is the fact that there is a "nib" in the center slot of the cutter and chipbreaker. Located next to the screw, it engages the height adjuster. If another cutter is substituted and is not an exact match, the nib gets lost. Then the cutter height is not easily adjusted.

The #105 is the tough one to find, and they do have inherent problems with the design.

Our friend *Dan K * machined a dozen or so of these nibs for me. Just in time for my #129 resoration. These planes have other severe limitations as I mentioned in DonW's restoration thread. I've probably got a dozen or more of these Liberty planes in queue, gradually getting to them and making them pretty dust collectors.


----------



## bandit571

You will also find the slot in the iron is narrower on the Liberty Bells….


----------



## 33706

> You will also find the slot in the iron is narrower on the Liberty Bells….
> 
> - bandit571


That's right, *Bandit*, and whenever a cutter gets replaced in a Liberty Bell, the nib won't fit the replacement, so it goes away. This is the whole problem with the Liberty series. I like 'em anyway, and the #122 is better than a block plane in some ways.


----------



## bandit571

Besides…a Hock cutter just won't look right …in a Liberty Bell plane….









And…









It did have a good "sole"...


----------



## HokieKen

Scrub em, joint em and smooth em boys! Here's my "A" team (with the #18 standing in where the #15 usually is…)


----------



## Bertha

That's quite a cast of characters. I was never an MF guy, really, but a buddy at work is turning me on to them. What ever happened to KeenKutter Dan? Is he still around? I think of him every time I see a weird KK something. And they made all kinds of weird somethings.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes Liberty Bells. They look so proper and stately.

And Smit, I don't do S-class Stanleys, but do like S-class cars. ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> That s quite a cast of characters. I was never an MF guy, really, but a buddy at work is turning me on to them. What ever happened to KeenKutter Dan? Is he still around? I think of him every time I see a weird KK something. And they made all kinds of weird somethings.
> 
> I m glad I m not the only one who likes Liberty Bells. They look so proper and stately.
> 
> And Smit, I don t do S-class Stanleys, but do like S-class cars. ;-)
> 
> - Bertha


Dan hasn't been heard from for awhile.

Don't knock until you're a trier, Al.


----------



## donwilwol

Just to break the monotony


----------



## miketo

Dammit, I just drooled all over my keyboard.


----------



## HokieKen

You make that infill Don? It's a beaut!



> That s quite a cast of characters. I was never an MF guy, really, but a buddy at work is turning me on to them. ...
> 
> - Bertha


It's never to late to get right Bertha ;-)


----------



## donwilwol

here is the build, https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/28/the-full-size-4-dw-infill/

Looks like a little over 4 years ago.


----------



## HokieKen

I thought it looked familiar  That's a great build and a great write-up.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Fresh group pic of several faves.


----------



## corelz125

Smitty that's a #10?


----------



## bandit571

Old Number 7 was back at work, today..









Stanley No. 7c, Type 9


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

No. 10 1/2; Type 1 with adjustable mouth:


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

OK. With all this talk lately of flattening the soles of hand planes, I just had to start flattening some other things in my shop.










Now for some 1200 grit, and we should be good to go!


----------



## bandit571

had a couple dozen plugs to trim flush, tonight..









Needed the "Trimmers"....bevel down chisel, a "hammer" to tap the chisel ( saves my hand) and a Stanley No. 60-1/2 to flush the plugs ..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Maybe lap the face of that hammer, Bandit.

Me? I'm done lapping mallets. Question: who needs fences?


----------



## theoldfart

ME


----------



## theoldfart




----------



## DLK

Thats a neat fence. Who made that one.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Stanley, as I recall.


----------



## theoldfart

Yup


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sweetheart too?


----------



## bandit571

If you look close enough at my Stanley No. 7c, Type 9…









Someone in the far past had added two holes, and threaded them..5/16" x 18.


----------



## corelz125

10 1/2 with the adjustable mouth very very nice. Good looking fence Kevin snuck the mitre box in the pic


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hah, didn't notice that!


----------



## theoldfart

Wha? Who me?
Not Sweet Heart!


----------



## HokieKen

What's a good plane for a shooting board fellas? I have plans to build a board but I don't want to spend the money on a proper shooting plane or time making one just now. So I'm thinking either my #18 (#6 size) or my spare #10 (#4-1/2 size - thanks Poopiekat!) would be good with the wide iron and the extra mass. But having never used a shooting board, I thought I'd elicit some advice


----------



## CL810

Those will work Ken and a low angle bevel up will help with end grain.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Andy. I don't have a bevel-up bench plane though. Was thinking maybe ramping the plane track would approximate a skewed cutter to help with end grain?


----------



## Mosquito

> What s a good plane for a shooting board fellas? I have plans to build a board but I don t want to spend the money on a proper shooting plane or time making one just now. So I m thinking either my #18 (#6 size) or my spare #10 (#4-1/2 size - thanks Poopiekat!) would be good with the wide iron and the extra mass. But having never used a shooting board, I thought I d elicit some advice
> 
> - HokieKen


The sharp one.

I've used all kinds of planes with a shooting board, #7, #6, #5-1/2, even a #3. As long as it's sharp and the side and sole is square, the rest is just "nice to have". Of the two, I'd probably favor the #18, as you can have more of the plane registered on the board ahead of and behind the cutter

Though I will say my LV shooting plane and shooting board is a damn nice combo, and wouldn't go back to bench planes lol


----------



## bandit571

Your No. 15 would also work. Some say even the WR no. 62 will work.

Nice part about using a Mitre Box to cross cut…..there is no need for a shooting board.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Though I will say my LV shooting plane and shooting board is a damn nice combo, and wouldn t go back to bench planes
> 
> - Mosquito


Yeah, a dedicated shoot board plane is (ultimately) the way to go, IMO.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree that a dedicated shooting plane is the way to go. And I've decided that I'm going to treat myself to one purchase more extravagant than I generally allow myself at Handworks this September (assuming it doesn't get cancelled…) and the Veritas shooting plane is on the list of very likely possibilities ;-) But, in the meantime, I'd like to get a shooting board built sooner rather than later to determine whether or not it's something I'll use enough to justify that purchase. I'm leaning to the #18, just wasn't sure whether the added length would make it more awkward to use. I'll be building the board so that the track can easily be replaced if/when I purchase the Veritas. Or Smitty decides to send me one of those #51s I know he's got squirreled away over there ;-)


----------



## jmartel

Kenny, if you can wait until cyber monday, Lee Valley has typically had shooting planes available (in limited numbers) for their factory seconds events. Just gotta buy within the first like 45 min of it opening online.


----------



## HokieKen

I've been trying to get one of the skewed block planes for 3 years on cyber Monday Jmart. I figure if I wait for the cyber Monday sale, they'll all be gone within 12 seconds of launch. But if I buy one at full price, there will be about 200 of them and they'll end up giving them away just to get rid of them.


----------



## 33706

> I ve been trying to get one of the skewed block planes for 3 years on cyber Monday Jmart. I figure if I wait for the cyber Monday sale, they ll all be gone within 12 seconds of launch. But if I buy one at full price, there will be about 200 of them and they ll end up giving them away just to get rid of them.
> 
> - HokieKen


Ken, I once made a home-built chute plane, and it served my needs for quite a while:

https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/34646


----------



## jmartel

True enough.

I need to get my planes out for a group photo. Most of them haven't been used in a few years since I've been working on the house. I think my #8 has about 1/2" of dust on it at the moment.


----------



## jmartel

There's also JayT's version.
https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/261258


----------



## DanKrager

*Hokieken * I designed and built this shooting board for myself. It works better than anticipated because of the sled to which any plane is fastened. The intent in building it this way is that if I'm going to invest in a shooting board, it should be able to do all the common angles, including the compound ones. Otherwise, it's almost like what's the point? Even though it seems large, compare it to the space taken by a shooting board of any size, a donkey's ear dedicated to 45°, and a miter jack and with all those, compound angles are not addressed without making some additions=more space. I use a Stanley Sweatheart low angle plane that didn't break the bank to get. Yes, a skew angle would be desirable, but with superior sharpness it is a luxury that also helps with tearout on the end of the stroke.

That should give you a hint that I MIGHT be in the market for a compound hand miter box and saw. Yes, I have a chop saw and it does compound miters cleanly and almost effotlessly, but in the interest of downsizing I'd trade for a good compound hand powered miter box










I can take pictures if needed or send you the sketchup file.

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks PK! I would ultimately really want a skewed blade though. Since using a skewed block plane, I'm a firm believer ;-)

I pondered building JayT's plane for a long time Jmart. Even started a hunt for the hardware. But then realized the time spent just wouldn't be justified vs buying one. I haven't ruled out making my own entirely but if I do, it'll be machined from steel.


----------



## 33706

> Thanks PK! I would ultimately really want a skewed blade though. Since using a skewed block plane, I m a firm believer ;-)
> 
> I pondered building JayT s plane for a long time Jmart. Even started a hunt for the hardware. But then realized the time spent just wouldn t be justified vs buying one. I haven t ruled out making my own entirely but if I do, it ll be machined from steel.
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks, Ken! Yes, I see what you mean by the benefits of skewed cutters. I've got some mileage on that #140 that you sent me, I'm really impressed with it!


----------



## bandit571

Yes, I do have a "chuting board" sitting on a shelf, with about an inch of dust on it…









Just a 2×6 and couple pieces of Oak for cleats…


----------



## HokieKen

Very good idea Dan! I was planning to machine the plane track from UHMW and machine the side of the plane to be square to the sole and slick. Hadn't even though about making a sled the plane attaches to. Definitely some food for thought there!

I'm planning to build the adjustable shoot board from the Woodsmith plans:









Manual compound miter saws aren't very common Dan. I wish you luck with that search!


----------



## jmartel

> I m planning to build the adjustable shoot board from the Woodsmith plans:
> 
> Manual compound miter saws aren t very common Dan. I wish you luck with that search!
> - HokieKen


Seems complicated to me. But I don't usually build stuff that has non 90 or 45 deg ends.


----------



## theoldfart

Only two compound mitre boxes that I know of. A later model Dorns patent by Braunsdorf Meuller that has the extra wings and A.D. Hughes multicast I think POA has both!


----------



## HokieKen

> I m planning to build the adjustable shoot board from the Woodsmith plans:
> 
> Manual compound miter saws aren t very common Dan. I wish you luck with that search!
> - HokieKen
> 
> Seems complicated to me. But I don t usually build stuff that has non 90 or 45 deg ends.
> 
> - jmartel


I would normally be in the same camp. But, one of the things I want it for is gluing up segmented turning blanks and I often cut those at odd angles.


----------



## Lazyman

All of the YouTubers seem to use wedgie sleds for accurately cutting their segments for turning blanks. Plus, if you trim a little off the ends, it would seem like you would have to trim the same amount off of each one to ensure that they all the same length; otherwise, it seems like the work of the getting the angle perfect is wasted? Maybe you've got something special in mind?


----------



## rad457

I have now 3 shooting boards in the shop, last one a Veritas , not sure that I have used it yet? Normally just use what ever plane that is handy, 60 1/2, #4 sometimes even a #102 if a little trim is all that is required, use plane stop on bench as backing. My thought is that if the table saw can not cut a straight accurate cut then perhaps spend some time fixing that problem before spending big $ for a secondary solution?
When I made a few segmented bowls found out that a segment sled dial-ed in was the best solution! 1st bowl, burn box, 2nd box, gift for tier 2 friends and last box keeper for the Wife


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## donwilwol

https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/211010

The project card doesn't seem to want to work on the first one.


----------



## HokieKen

My tablesaw cuts great but sometimes the finish just isn't good enough if it's going to be visible. Or for miters, I rarely get a perfect fit right off the blade and I don't like anything less than a perfect fit ;-) And sometimes you just need to trim a piece up.

Nathan - I'm thinking more along the lines of Celtic knots than segmented bowls.

Don - lovely infills! But, I really like a skewed blade and planes just aren't something I enjoy making enough to put that kind of effort into making one. The #6 on the other hand is speaking my language )


----------



## bigblockyeti

This isn't a plane but fitting with the current discussion. A question for the brain trust, is this a good deal? I've been wanting one but haven't found anything that's not sloppy or extremely expensive.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1166386987084020/?surface=product_details


----------



## HokieKen

> This isn t a plane but fitting with the current discussion. A question for the brain trust, is this a good deal? I ve been wanting one but haven t found anything that s not sloppy or extremely expensive.
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1166386987084020/?surface=product_details
> 
> - bigblockyeti


I dunno about the price Yeti but I know people swear by those Lion trimmers. You should ping MikeACG and ask him about that one. I know he uses one in his shop and loves it. I doubt he follows this particular thread though.


----------



## theoldfart

Price is good as long as the blades are sharp. Test it first! Pootautuck Lion trimers are well known. Also be sure the handle is there if you can.


----------



## BenDupre

> This isn t a plane but fitting with the current discussion. A question for the brain trust, is this a good deal? I ve been wanting one but haven t found anything that s not sloppy or extremely expensive.
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1166386987084020/?surface=product_details
> 
> - bigblockyeti


Grizzly makes one, reasonable too I suppose:

Grizzly Miter Trimmer

nothing but 5 star reviews on their site


----------



## ac0rn

My Dad had one, and it was super sharp, and great for trim work. Just be careful where your finger tips are.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Lee Valley also sells these new


----------



## CL810

The Lion miter trimmers are bi-directional which is needed when cutting some types of moldings. The dedicated shooting planes are one direction. That causes a problem when unsupported fibers are being cut in the wrong direction and blow out.

Don't get me wrong, cuz I love my Lee Valley shooting plane but it doesn't work for me 100% of the time and I fall back on my 62 when it doesn't. Combine that with as a hobbyist I don't use it that often, I'm not sure I would have one. I bought mine on the cyber Monday deal and I'm not sure I would do it again. So for me it comes down to how often will you use it? But if I'm going to have a plane that can only be used for shooting, I'd have to need way more often than I do now.


----------



## DanKrager

*CL810*, good thoughts to consider.

I've encountered the problem of cutting into the grain when dressing miters. To enhance the usefulness of a shooting jig, my solution has been to turn the molding back side up and, if needed, place a waste piece of molding under it to offset any taper so the back remains parallel to the "table". The fact that my shooting jig can hold the plane at any angle up to 45° over the table greatly enhances its usefulness. It is still limited to dressing half the the ends of a tapered box sides. YMMV.

A skew cutter helps a lot with against the grain cuts, but as a hobbyist it may not practical either. Often, however, hobbyists like me now, have more money than brains, and if I want it I'll probably get it. So far I've been judicious (think lucky) about the "luxurious" items that are not frequently used. When not under the pressure of production deadlines so much it helps me be patient for a good deal. LOL!

DanK


----------



## miketo

> I m planning to build the adjustable shoot board from the Woodsmith plans:


I'm going to build me a 360 degree shooting board.


----------



## rad457

Hate to interrupt all this shooting board stuff, but 2 new arrivals showed up and have now been deemed ready for work? The #8 blade had some real bad pits and I put in an old Made in England Stanley iron which might just go back in as it is twice the thickness but will wait and see how the MFs iron holds an edge?


----------



## bandit571

While hanging a few tools up in the New Tool Cabinet..









Wiped that one hacksaw clean..to find out it is a Millers Falls No. 1247…..

Mr. Stanley seems to have taken over the cabinet…









No. 4,T-10 in front of #12-004c









A No. 8, T-7, a couple block planes, a couple #3, T-11s, and a #5-1/2, T-17

Millers Falls must have evicted them from the Plane Til…









Them Block planes are as bad as Mice….


----------



## HokieKen

I heartily approve Andre! )


----------



## corelz125

Something a little different


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That it is! Never seen one in-person.


----------



## HokieKen

What is it Corelz?


----------



## bandit571

Made by Sargent….VBM/Autoset


----------



## donwilwol

I like the 700 series Sargent . they work really well


----------



## corelz125

Like Bandit said it's a Sargent auto set 714. It was Sargents line to compete with Stanley's Gage plane.


----------



## Frankr1zzo

I just bought my first real plane its a h s b 
22 incher. I think its a #7








Im into it for 65$


----------



## corelz125

Welcome to the club.


----------



## HokieKen

Welcome Frank! You'll need a #4 or 5 to run ahead of that one to scrub the stock. Then a #4 after it to smooth it. And you'll probably want a #6 for edge jointing. Then you'll want… oh nevermind, you'll see ;-))


----------



## HokieKen

Have I ever mentioned that I have an unnatural love for my Millers Falls jumbo smoother??









This piece of Walnut must like it too.


----------



## bandit571

it's getting there…needs drawers and a door(s) next, but..


















took a bit, to pull the case into square…but…









Loaded up quick….started with a pair of No. 7s….( an 0-7, and a No.7c)


----------



## corelz125

Sliding dovetails for the shelves?


----------



## bandit571

yep.


----------



## rad457

> Sliding dovetails for the shelves?
> 
> - corelz125


Pins first!


----------



## bandit571

In this case…sockets first. However, there are still 3 drawers to make….pins first.


----------



## corelz125

Very nice


----------



## bandit571

Random plane shots from today…









Stanley No. 3, making Moxxon TP…









Type 11….making curlies…









Cleaning out 1/4" wide grooves…or…









Cleaning up the bottom of a dado….


----------



## corelz125

And you almost walked away from that router plane.


----------



## ac0rn

Always within easy reach, a Stanley 12 in a sled…


















.


----------



## HokieKen

That's interesting Jeff. Don't think I've ever seen a #12 like that. Good thinkin


----------



## corelz125

It's kind of a 112 on steroids?


----------



## bandit571

Had a plane land on a shelf, today…









Which drove a couple block planes away..so, they went and hid..


----------



## Thorbjorn88

This is a plane my grandpa made which I inherited last summer. I recently flattened the sole and tuned the wedge and I've really been enjoying using it.


----------



## bandit571

Needed to clean up a rebate(s) where two doors close together…had a ridge back in the corner…so









Auburn Tool Co. No. 181…works like a charm…


----------



## bandit571

Planes now have a new home…all finished and ready to move into…









Just close the doors, when you're done…


----------



## 33706

Bandit: Doors are definitely the way to go, for proper storage of planes. I have some planes with sawdust accumulated on them for so long that I can't just blow it off anymore, I had to use "Simple Green" to scrub the sawdust off. Looks good!


----------



## bandit571

Inspiration came from seeing a display case at Heart of Ohio Antique center….imagine this sort of thing, filled with nothing but Bedrock planes…..they had every model Stanley made of the Bedrock style plane…except their glass doors had a LOCK on them….


----------



## 33706

> Inspiration came from seeing a display case at Heart of Ohio Antique center….imagine this sort of thing, filled with nothing but Bedrock planes…..they had every model Stanley made of the Bedrock style plane…except their glass doors had a LOCK on them….
> 
> - bandit571


I used to have a booth in a multi-dealer shop on the Maine coast, years ago. I understand the lock, for sure. Every time I'd go in to straighten up my booth, the planes would all have the brass knob spun all the way out, or all the way in, lever caps lying on the shelf, and all other kinds of stupid fat-fingered mischief.

One day somebody stole a cutter assembly, and presumably swapped it into a plane they were buying. They were kind enough to put the junky cutter and chipbreaker from a lesser plane onto mine. Then they bought the cheap plane, with my hardware in it.

Better that these thieves had to get an attendant with keys standing over them! That would have prevented some vandal from switching 50-cent Mantovani or Henry Mancini vinyl albums with my rare quadrosonic Joni Mitchell, Eric Clapton, and The Who vinyl and walking out with all three discs for $1.50. Live and learn.


----------



## theoldfart

PK, what town was the shop in?

And I still collect vinyl!


----------



## corelz125

Flat top and roundy rocks all together? Any 602's?


----------



## 33706

> PK, what town was the shop in?
> 
> And I still collect vinyl!
> 
> - theoldfart


Well, Kevin, there were actually two shops that I had to give up on, back in the old days: Arundel Antiques on Rt 1 in Maine, and Cliff's Trading Post on Rt 1 in Scarborough, Maine. I actually did well in both places, but you name it, switching price tags, missing parts and pieces, and things that hit the floor as the people walked away. Stealing a lid off my cookie jars and adding it to a lidless similar units from another vendor…jeez.

The things that really drove me nuts was when I put out vinyl from my personal collection, still-sealed records from the '50s and '60's, why the f***did people find it necessary to cut open the cellophane outer wrap on them…and not buy them???? My collection, or what was left of it, went to my stepdaughter who added her own well-chosen collection to it.


----------



## bandit571

Been over a year since I've seen that case….he had them all mixed together….and very high priced, at that.

Place is in Springfield, OH…corner of I-70 and US 40….east side of town….there is a small village out that way called Harmony, OH….

Hoping they open next month…we'll see…


----------



## corelz125

If they are still there I'm sure the prices have doubled.


----------



## donwilwol

My wife and I try to make rt 1 in Maine a yearly thing. We start in Arundel and work out way back down. Unfortunately we missed this year due to the Chinese.


----------



## 33706

> My wife and I try to make rt 1 in Maine a yearly thing. We start in Arundel and work out way back down. Unfortunately we missed this year due to the Chinese.
> 
> - Don W


Oh, so that's why my plane parts have been disappearing!! *Just Kidding!*

You also have to make Rt. 4 across southern NH part of your annual sweep! Especially from Epsom NH and eastward, lots of great places to shop, the so-called 'Antiques Alley' of NH.


----------



## bandit571

Maybe the coming World's Longest Yard Sale will be allowed to open….first weekend in August? Just follow Route 127 from Michigan south…..


----------



## donwilwol

> My wife and I try to make rt 1 in Maine a yearly thing. We start in Arundel and work out way back down. Unfortunately we missed this year due to the Chinese.
> 
> - Don W
> 
> Oh, so that s why my plane parts have been disappearing!! *Just Kidding!*
> 
> You also have to make Rt. 4 across southern NH part of your annual sweep! Especially from Epsom NH and eastward, lots of great places to shop, the so-called Antiques Alley of NH.
> 
> - poopiekat


Rt 4 is part of the trip for sure. (besides being "on the way). Of course a side trip to The Vintage Tool Shoppe to see Eric and Joyce is another must stop as well.


----------



## 33706

Oh, so that s why my plane parts have been disappearing!! *Just Kidding!*

You also have to make Rt. 4 across southern NH part of your annual sweep! Especially from Epsom NH and eastward, lots of great places to shop, the so-called Antiques Alley of NH.

- poopiekat

Rt 4 is part of the trip for sure. (besides being "on the way). Of course a side trip to The Vintage Tool Shoppe to see Eric and Joyce is another must stop as well.

- Don W
[/QUOTE]

My brother lives 5 minutes away from Eric, and it never occurred to me to swing by Eric's place, where planes go to die.


----------



## donwilwol

> Eric s place, where planes go to die.
> 
> - poopiekat


What's that mean?


----------



## theoldfart

^ Eric's NH plane parts on FleaBay I think. More money parting them out.

My Maine rusting was limited to Liberty and Hulls Cove, Hulls Cove being my preference.


----------



## 33706

> Eric s place, where planes go to die.
> 
> - poopiekat
> 
> What s that mean?
> 
> - Don W


Don, it wasn't meant to be critical. From his listings I see entire planes listed in piecemeal, as if he gets desirable planes and breaks them down into individual parts for sale separately.


----------



## P89DC

> Oh, so that s why my plane parts have been disappearing!! *Just Kidding!*
> 
> My brother lives 5 minutes away from Eric, and it never occurred to me to swing by Eric s place, where planes go to die.
> 
> - poopiekat


As opposed to say maybe having like 30~40 #7 and #8 sequested in a single hoard?

Just asking for a friend


----------



## 33706

> As opposed to say maybe having like 30~40 #7 and #8 sequested in a single hoard?
> 
> Just asking for a friend
> 
> - Eric


And I'll continue to buy more, guilt-free, knowing that my generous donations of planes, tools and materials are enjoyed by various non-profits, youth programs and local Community Clubs. Not to mention various *LJ* members with whom I've happily given tools and parts over the years.

*
You picked the wrong person to criticize.*


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> And I ll continue to buy more, guilt-free, knowing that my generous donations of planes, tools and materials are enjoyed by various non-profits, youth programs and local Community Clubs. Not to mention *various LJ members with whom I ve happily given tools and parts* over the years….
> 
> - poopiekat


I can testify )

I've also bought parts from NH Plane Parts that I was otherwise unable to find


----------



## 33706

*TY Ken!*


----------



## theoldfart

Same here


----------



## rad457

> As opposed to say maybe having like 30~40 #7 and #8 sequested in a single hoard?
> 
> Just asking for a friend
> 
> - Eric
> 
> And I ll continue to buy more, guilt-free, knowing that my generous donations of planes, tools and materials are enjoyed by various non-profits, youth programs and local Community Clubs. Not to mention various *LJ* members with whom I ve happily given tools and parts over the years.
> 
> *
> You picked the wrong person to criticize.*
> 
> - poopiekat


LOL! Funny how someone with no projects and blank profile can have such a meaningful and intelligent comment? 
I just love it when some people believe their opinion actually matters.


----------



## 33706

Thanks, *Kevin and Andre*!

I live on the Canadian prairies, far from most of the members of the Lumberjocks community.

In lieu of actually having a beer or two with fellow members, I find fellowship by sharing what I have with others.

There will always be detractors in every open forum, who have no constructive ideas in their head.

*"For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise."* (St Paul)


----------



## CFrye

Boys, BOYS! Please. Let's remember we are all here to see and share hand planes. Can we all take a deep breath, shake off the negativity and get back to that, Please?
PK, are you finished with your personal quarantine?


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…OK, Raggy…..let me know when you have a 1/2" spear point cutter for the Stanley #71-1/2….

Was getting a bit tired of the way mine looked…not much better than when it came home..









Because when these were brand new….they were nickle plated…so…









About as close as I can get to Nickel Plate..
Placed it back in the case, after everything was re-assembled..









Note: I did NOT do the sole of this plane….even though Stanley nickle plated it…figured IF I continue to use this little plane, the sole will stay shiny, as is..


----------



## HokieKen

You get em Candy! ;-)


----------



## donwilwol

> Boys, BOYS!
> 
> - CFrye


For some reason that came through in my mother's voice!

But good call Candy.


----------



## bandit571

Ok…these have been seen hanging around near the plane til…









Twins?









One was still in the box, too..









Was another box as well..









With it's own plane inside..









Box had a bunch of numbers on the inside, too..









There was a close relative hanging around, too..









Was stamped as a Millers Falls No. 75…..









Will have to keep an eye on these….they are as bad as Mice…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, the Joy of the No. 48 tongue and groove plane. Totally underrated hand tool, IMO,



















Not done yet. Applying T&G to all sides of what will be a raised garden box.


----------



## theoldfart

And what about the lowly 49?

Harumph, elitists and their even numbered planes.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's 3/4" stock. You and your Hrumphs… if it were less, I'd press the 49.


----------



## bandit571

Hmm, he always was a bit….odd.


----------



## theoldfart

^


----------



## bandit571

Wards/Stanley No. 78 vs BIG knot…









So, who do you think won?










Never even slowed it down….helps when things are sharp…


----------



## DLK

> And what about the lowly 49?
> 
> Harumph, elitists and their even numbered planes.
> 
> - theoldfart





> Hmm, he always was a bit….odd.
> 
> - bandit571





> ^
> 
> - theoldfart


A bit odd … I thought he was a bit square. ROFLOL


----------



## theoldfart

I prefer to think of myself as an idiosyncratic retro grouchish old fart thank you.


----------



## DLK

Sorry I suffer from mathematical humor.


----------



## HokieKen

You were right Don, he is square. But at least his positivity makes him real.


----------



## bandit571

Born in the 50s, raised in the 60s ( so I have been told) escaped the 70s…..no wonder I'm messed up….

Turn 67 on 15 May, 2020….

Saw til had a big dry fit, today…









Have a few other items to do…then a glue up MIGHT get done…









Looking like 14 saws will be inside it….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

What's the square of 49?

T&Ging done.










All with the…
.
.
.
wait for it…
.
.
.
No. 48!!!


----------



## theoldfart

The question to ask, what's 49 the square of?

Nice curlicues by the way.


----------



## bandit571

Twould a 7 do?

Would a #71-1/2 be considered Odd..or…Even? Either way, it is do for a bit of work this week….4 stopped dados. 
Been using that Auburn Tool Co. of Auburn, NY. No. 181 to clean up after the Wards #78…..


----------



## HokieKen

I've been using my MF 07 skewed block to clean up some box joints today. That thing is prime.


----------



## bandit571

Dado work…all 4 are done…last step in each was a clean up…









For a nice, flat bottom….









Works for me….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The march of even numbered tools continues. Need repeating chamfers?


----------



## theoldfart

Sweet. Even if it is an even #!


----------



## DLK

I have to admit that even I am jealous of your ownership of a chamfer plane.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, that's pretty slick there Smitty!


----------



## DLK

> You were right Don, he is square. But at least his positivity makes him real.
> 
> - HokieKen


Are you saying he is real square?


----------



## corelz125

Another mouth watering plane from the smittysonian collection!


----------



## HokieKen

> You were right Don, he is square. But at least his positivity makes him real.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> Are you saying he is real square?
> 
> - Combo Prof


I am Don. Unless he's being negative. Then you'll have to use your imagination.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thanks re: the No. 72. It's in need of a proper cutter (the one it has does work, but is a heavily drilled block plane cutter) and really could use a full-up refurb, Yoda style… but it is fun to use as-is, and is ready to go.


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, will it ever become a 72 1/2?


----------



## bandit571

There WAS a fellow trying to sell one of these last year….same place I bought the #71-1/2 at…


----------



## DonBroussard

Smitty-You are most like a perfect square with very cool vintage hand tools.


----------



## Lazyman

> You were right Don, he is square. But at least his positivity makes him real.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> Are you saying he is real square?
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> I am Don. Unless he s being negative. Then you ll have to use your imagination.
> 
> - HokieKen


As long as you don't take his square root. He becomes irrational.


----------



## HokieKen

Some may perceive him as irrational Nathan. But at his root it's just imaginary.


----------



## HokieKen

And with that I will officially declare this dead horse thoroughly kicked.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Smitty, will it ever become a 72 1/2?
> 
> - theoldfart


I have the regular and bull nose soles, but I do not have the beading attachment. Not sure I ever will. It's just so unlikely I'd ever bead a chamfer!

Thanks Don. It keeps things interesting, pulling different tools to do what are otherwise rather mundane tasks.

Here's the state of the raised planter I'm building for my sister.


----------



## theoldfart

Will you line it with something?


----------



## BillWhite

> Me too Ken. PK came thru for me just recently.
> 
> ...
> 
> And I ll continue to buy more, guilt-free, knowing that my generous donations of planes, tools and materials are enjoyed by various non-profits, youth programs and local Community Clubs. Not to mention *various LJ members with whom I ve happily given tools and parts* over the years….
> 
> - poopiekat
> 
> I can testify )
> 
> I ve also bought parts from NH Plane Parts that I was otherwise unable to find
> 
> - HokieKen





> ...
> 
> And I ll continue to buy more, guilt-free, knowing that my generous donations of planes, tools and materials are enjoyed by various non-profits, youth programs and local Community Clubs. Not to mention *various LJ members with whom I ve happily given tools and parts* over the years….
> 
> - poopiekat
> 
> I can testify )
> 
> I ve also bought parts from NH Plane Parts that I was otherwise unable to find
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

YouTubers say landscape fabric to the bottom, then plastic with holes. I also did the bottom with a center drain 'gutter' that seems like a great idea. With that gutter, the plastic only has holes in the center…


----------



## 33706

*Bill White:*

did that screw arrive?


----------



## Mosquito

Not an even numbered plane, but it fits the "Pulling one off the shelf". Someone was working on a type study, and wondered if I'd be willing to take some pictures, so I pulled out the background paper and stand lights and had at it. Been a while since I've had that stuff out of hiding lol Now that it's set up, I might have to take pictures of a few more planes before I pack it up again.

Anyway, this is an Ohio 099. Certainly not the best example out there, as it's been broken and repaired probably a couple times, and some parts have odd replacements, but it's mine none the less.



















The wing nut that holds the blade is retained by the casting itself, interestingly.










Kind of like the depth adjustment on it










And I find the tote to be slightly more comfortable than the earlier Stanley's. A lot more rounded, though I find it to feel a little too small in my hand.


----------



## Mosquito

Oh, and about that 72-1/2 thing…

Only thing from a 72 that I have, so ha!










Oh… Ah. Dang it anyway… Lol


----------



## theoldfart




----------



## HokieKen

I bet Smitty stole it Mos!

Good lookin' planter Smitty


----------



## Mosquito

It came with my type 14 #45, the one that had the mini tool chest I did a video on a while back. Was hoping its contents would show up in the chest somewhere, but no luck lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ that box is way high on the cool index! Forgot you had that! If i ever get the hardware, can we talk?


----------



## HokieKen

Well, I just snagged a Millers Falls #11 junior jack off Ebay. The good news? It's a type one ) Will be my only type one. I really like the look of the raised letters around the knob and the plane number cast behind the frog.









The bad news?








It's been broke and brazed across the mouth and the knob screw has broke through the sole it looks like. :-( But, it looks like a well-done brazing job from what I can see in the pics and this will likely be set up as a scrub and probably won't see duty very often. It'll get some real love when I get it to mimimize the appearance of the braze and make it pretty. And I'm hoping the tote can just have a horn glued on and shaped to match rather than getting replaced.

Now I just need a #22 to replace my Record 07 and my till will be a Millers-Falls-Only habitat  Well, except for my Stanley block planes and router plane…


----------



## Karda

Its still a nice plane


----------



## ac0rn

Ken
"But, it looks like a well-done brazing job from what I can see in the pics and this will likely be set up as a scrub and probably won't see duty very often."

Ques 1- Would the mouth be open enough to pass shavings?

Ques 2- Scrubbing can be tough work, would the welds be over stressed?


----------



## HokieKen

If the mouth isn't wide enough, I can fix that Jeff. As far as the stress on the weld joint, remains to be seen. I'll have to get this guy in hand and just see what the deal is. If it won't work as a scrub, I'm okay with that for what I paid. If nothing else it'll fill the slot in my till and satisfy my OCD ;-)


----------



## BillWhite

Not yet. Just went to the mail box. I'm waiting with worms in my mouth. That's Mississippi for "baited breath".


> *Bill White:*
> 
> did that screw arrive?
> 
> - poopiekat


----------



## corelz125

Kenny do you come across just the base for that #11 Or is it like finding a #24?


----------



## Mosquito

> ^ that box is way high on the cool index! Forgot you had that! If i ever get the hardware, can we talk?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Absolutely.
And something that I like, probably way more than I should, is that little top label that has the Stanley script logo, and "Made in United States of America" on it. It's surprisingly detailed and crisp


----------



## Mosquito

> Kenny do you come across just the base for that #11 Or is it like finding a #24?
> 
> - corelz125


Probably similar to me looking for a Chaplin's patent base lol


----------



## bandit571

Boxes are so over-rated…LOL..


















Or, if Stanley is what you want…


















Trying to remember which of these two came in that box…

Millers Falls seemed to have some sort of number inside of their box?









Serial number?


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny do you come across just the base for that #11 Or is it like finding a #24?
> 
> - corelz125


The #11 planes aren't that hard to come by. It's just the type 1's that are pretty rare. If I did find another base, it would be way more than I'd be willing to pay. The sole reason (no pun intended) I jumped on this one is because it's a type one. Plus I got it for about half of what a number 11 in later incarnations usually sell for


----------



## bandit571

Stanley No. 6…( because I haven't found a MF No.18)









Still had a Low Knob, but was made before the frog adjuster was added, and before any Patent dates were cast on it…

There is also a Stanley No. 6c in the til…a type 10.


----------



## Bonka

My fiend gifted me an 18 he found in a store in Deadwood, SD. It was/is in pristine condition. The blade takes a sharp edge and holds up well.


----------



## corelz125

Kenny maybe with all of the eyes in this thread keeping an eye out we can find one for you.


----------



## corelz125

Talking about one of these Mos? I been looking for a tote forever.


----------



## corelz125

No Millers Falls type 1 #11 on this months supertool list but the #67 in the box was pretty nice.


----------



## 33706

> My fiend gifted me an 18 he found in a store in Deadwood, SD. It was/is in pristine condition. The blade takes a sharp edge and holds up well.
> 
> - Gerald Thompson


I wish I had "fiends' like you!!


----------



## HokieKen

Even if there was one on supertool, it would be out of my budget corelz. I paid less than $40 shipped for this one and that was a stretch for me ;-)

I quite like my #18 plane. I didn't really think I would use it much but it's pretty much taken the place of my #7. I still grab the #15 jumbo jack most of the time bug the 18 sees more action than I figured it would.


----------



## corelz125

MJD tools seems to be chop shopping a lot of planes lately


----------



## Mosquito

> Talking about one of these Mos? I been looking for a tote forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - corelz125


Yup lol I've got one that must have been dropped on the rear end in the past, as there's a crack and a deformation there


----------



## bandit571

Used a #4c plane, almost like what Paul Sellers uses….









No. 12-004, Made in England. Was making very thin shavings to bevel the edge of a board…









May use it again, have a door to clean up. This is also the plane I use when I make raised panels. Seems to work quite nicely. Sellers switched out the OEM handles for a wood of his choice….


----------



## HokieKen

Got my #11 over the weekend but forgot to take pics. I'm pleased with it for the price. The braze job was well done and you really have to look to find where the break was on the sole. I'll smooth it up a bit with my belt grinder and it'll look decent and work fine I think. Otherwise the tote just needs a little surgery to fix the broken horn and she'll be ready to go


----------



## Mosquito

Sweet Kenny, looking forward to seeing it in action

Last night I got 2 more combination planes pictured, but only one set edited and uploaded

Siegley No. 2




























This is what happens when you try putting a Siegley No. 2 in a stand made for a #45 lol



















They use these, what appear to be spring steel, pins for spurs. Probably easier to replace, if you can find the right stock diameter I suppose


----------



## rad457

> Got my #11 over the weekend but forgot to take pics. I m pleased with it for the price. The braze job was well done and you really have to look to find where the break was on the sole. I ll smooth it up a bit with my belt grinder and it ll look decent and work fine I think. Otherwise the tote just needs a little surgery to fix the broken horn and she ll be ready to go
> 
> - HokieKen


Might have to look into getting an old Stanley #7 repaired, hairline cracks in the base at the throat, but then again the #6 has been all I really have needed so far?


----------



## HokieKen

Hairline cracks aren't something I'd worry with personally Andre. If they start getting bigger or propagate to the edge and start working up the side, then I'd give it a little attention.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice Seigley Mos. I like that 4-lobed cross design on the fence casting and the curvy cavity in the body. The cutter locking thumbscrew is butt-ugly though :-/


----------



## Mosquito

yeah, I'm not sure I'm much of a fan of the thumb screw either. I can see how it goes with the plane, in a way, but I'm not sure what else I'd make it look like either lol


----------



## HokieKen

I think a plain thumbscrew like they used everywhere else on the plane would look better personally.


----------



## corelz125

Mos you have the original tote from the Chaplins?


----------



## Mosquito

I don't think so, but I'll have to check


----------



## Mosquito

I guess to be perfectly honest, I just happened in to this one, so I don't even know what the original type was, painter would it hard rubber? The fit is very good, but I thought the totes were black, so unless it's wood and the black wore off, I'd say a good replacement


----------



## Mosquito

Today's installment, a Stanley #43, or at least most of it (broken horn)


----------



## HokieKen

That's sexy Mos! Way nicer looking than the Siegley


----------



## Mosquito

I agree, still not my favorite though  This might end up being my "user" in the tool chest…


----------



## HokieKen

What the hell? Where did the pics of the 43 go?

Edit: nevermind, they're back…


----------



## Mosquito

yeah, seems my webhost had a slight hiccup there for a bit lol Someone else was asking about a computer case I had built, and I couldn't get to my site for a little while there


----------



## terryR

That is a lovely 43, mos.


----------



## HokieKen

Oh good grief. Has photobucket taught you nothing Mos?! Upload them here and let LJs store them ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Terry, that was my most recent MWTCA purchase, last fall

lol no thanks Kenny  Things like what happened with PhotoBucket is exactly why I've always advocated for self hosting, 100% control over your pictures :-D It was a much bigger deal with the computer case modding project logs than here though


----------



## HokieKen

I know, I was just razzin ya ;-) I'm far too lazy to host my own… or even figure out how to… though so I'll just click the buttons


----------



## Mosquito

A little Fulton 5329 action for this evening























































Not a bad idea from someone to braze half a washer in to the regular flat head screws to make thing winged


----------



## JayT

Love the photography, Mos. The planes are pretty nice, too.

I really need to work on photography skills to really show off my planes.

Still playing peek-a-boo.










With some help from Kenny, I changed up the screw in the cap. He did all the metal work to make a screw that I could inset a piece of wood. It breaks up the all metal look I had on the caps before.


----------



## theoldfart

Sweet work JayT and a nice touch from Kenny.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't think it's an understatement to say I made that plane what it is ;-)

It's gorgeous like all of them Jay! I do like the wood on the cap screw. Good design choice IMO. Did you change the curvature on the front end too?


----------



## Lazyman

Another Beaut Jay! Sexiest hand planes alive, IMO. BTW, I've always wondered how the base is attached to the wood pieces on your planes?


----------



## HokieKen

Magic Nathan. He uses magic.


----------



## JayT

> Did you change the curvature on the front end too?
> 
> - HokieKen


Yeah, about a year and a half ago. The first ones were straight, then I started adding a curve. They've been about this radius for a while now.



> BTW, I've always wondered how the base is attached to the wood pieces on your planes?
> 
> - Lazyman


I was going to use magic and unicorn snot, but evidently unicorns have all moved out of Kansas, so went with screws and epoxy instead. This pic shows where the screw holes are in the base. Holes are very lightly countersunk and once the epoxy is set, the majority of the screw heads are milled off.


----------



## Lazyman

Thanks! I'll keep my eyes open for a unicorn with hay fever or a cold.


----------



## Mosquito

> I really need to work on photography skills to really show off my planes.
> 
> - JayT


Send one of those sexy planes my way and I would gladly take pictures for you :-D

It doesn't really take much, honestly. Good lighting and some background paper with a halfway decent camera is all my setup is (I just have a Certified Refurbished Nikon D5300 from 6 years ago with a 10-20mm lens that I use for almost everything in the shop). Even with a not so decent camera, good lighting is one of the bigger factors, and the background paper minimizes the background clutter/noise for "product shots". Frankly, most smartphones are capable of taking really good pictures with the right lighting these days. My setup went through a lot of evolution as I was doing computer case reviews a number of years ago. I'm by no means a professional, because I've got other things to spend my money on, but I came up with a decent not-so-crazy-expensive setup that works for me.


----------



## JayT

Thanks Mos. I've got a decent mirrorless digital picked up a couple years ago with jmart's help and advice. It's more than capable of taking good quality pics, if the operator were better skilled. I've tossed around making a light box and it wouldn't be that difficult, other than storing it in my tiny shop. Problem is that I prefer the natural background for pics instead of a solid color artificial one.

Probably just need to get over that mental hurdle and do some really good light box pics to show off the planes and then supplement with some stump pics. I'm sure I could make the outdoor pics work with lots more practice and some setup work, but that would mean finding time outside of work (55-60 hours a week right now and not at consistent times) and shop time. There's not enough hours in the week.


----------



## Mosquito

The first lightbox I made I just used some 1" PVC pipe and fittings, and then just clamped some shear fabric over it and pointed lights at the sides and top. Eventually got some soft-box lights, but not I actually just use 2 diffused LED tube lights on stands about 45° off center, and the regular shop lights

That first makeshift lightbox set up, with a black sheet for the background. Nothing was glued together, so I could take it apart and store it










With just a cheap-ish Sony point and shoot


----------



## JayT

Some good ideas there. Thanks, Mos.

I'm thinking about making a wooden framed box that will fold down on itself and a dark fabric background (black, navy or gray). Add in either some scrap hardwood flooring or a tree cookie for a base to hold the planes and I might be able to get a combination of some natural, along with consistent lighting and collapsible for easy storage. Might even be able to figure out a set up in the basement so as to not take up shop space and have the fabric getting covered in sawdust. Even if I take the pics in the shop, having it collapsible would mean I could store it in the house and move to the shop as needed.

Great, now I have another project to take away from plane building time.


----------



## Mosquito

Lol that's about how it goes for me too. Except, you're at least making tools, I've just been wishing I was lol


----------



## rad457

Forgotten in this conversation is the "teaser", items strategically placed in background? Or perhaps some treasured wood tucked in a corner


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…









Like this?


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, JayT's patio looks familiar…


----------



## JayT

Ha! Good luck doing much with what's in the background of my pic. That's the leg of my smoker being held up by some bricks to lift the tires off the ground. The only possible wood is small chunks of scrap getting ready to be burned.


----------



## Mosquito

Here's the setup currently


----------



## rad457

Kinda gave up looking for a "special" 4 1/2 and bought a what looks like a decent user of E-Bay and then of course a Millers Falls # 10 shows up! Think this why I have 5 or 6 #4s? Oh well might as well order the PMV-11 iron then decide which one gets it


----------



## Mosquito

Lol why not order two irons and not have to decide?


----------



## donwilwol

> Lol why not order two irons and not have to decide?
> 
> - Mosquito


Best order 3. You know you'll need it soon enough!


----------



## HokieKen

That MF 10 is real workhorse Andre. Congrats!


----------



## rad457

Have 2 in the cart already and trying to decide on the M.F. # 8. The days of spare $ has ended  That L.A. Jack been in the cart for way too long and no affordable #62 on the horizon! If I wasn't so lazy I could just swap the irons from the Stanleys???


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…









Hmmm….









Other than a paper label that needs done,yet.


----------



## BrandonW

We've purchased one of these at our work for photographing rare books: https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Portable-Foldable-Photo-Studio/dp/B01GIL6EU4/


----------



## bandit571

A type 5 came home, today…









Has a 409 under the lever cap…









A groovy sole…









Fancy wood handles…









And Sargent V.B.M. on the lever cap…..Sargent No. 414c.

There was also a Type 17 plane that came home with me..









A Stanley No. 4 
Total for these two planes? $55…$40 for the jack plane. I turned down a #3 that was priced at $70….









Was rather hard to stay within a budget, today…









Don't ask…..


----------



## corelz125

What did they want for the 112?


----------



## bandit571

$225…..I think….

And…it wasn't just one dealer….place has at least 8 buildings, all connected together…









And…









Place is out on the southeast side of Springfield, OH. Little town called Harmony….corner of US 40, and I-70. 
They do make you wear a mask….while in the building. Place is HUGE. Well worth the trip, though. Admission and parking is free.


----------



## rad457

Hard to find any deals or even reasonable priced planes around here. Paid $76.00 CAD for a Made in England # 4 1/2 Stanley(that came from England) that either has never been used or someone spent a lot of time refinishing it. Gave the iron a quick sharpening and was very impressed with the shavings from a scrap piece of poplar!
That M.F. #10 I was tryin to get, bid $25 over high bid and that was $20 higher than last one that sold with 2 min. left in auction and some one bid $50 more it went for almost $200 US! They showed me how to buy on Flea-Bay


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, prices are all over the map sometimes on ebay Andre. A little trick I have is to try to target auctions that end on the weekend. Seems that a lot of people forget to follow when they aren't strapped in front of a computer at work ;-)


----------



## corelz125

$225 that's up there.


----------



## rad457

> Yeah, prices are all over the map sometimes on ebay Andre. A little trick I have is to try to target auctions that end on the weekend. Seems that a lot of people forget to follow when they aren't strapped in front of a computer at work ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Sometimes we see things and put down a minimum bid, forget about it until a pay now notice arrives
Recent example would be the vintage Boston Metal Lead Pointer Sharpener that is on it's way and 
a 1 1/2" Footprint chisel

Came across some other examples to keep Bandit happy?


----------



## rad457

My English Stanley 4 1/2, have heard very little in regards to these and the ones made in Canada models?
The swish has a very pronounced English accent?


----------



## bandit571

And..


----------



## bandit571

About a third of the nickel plating on the lever cap had flaked off….just got done removing the rest…









As them flakes are sharp to the touch…plane has been "typed out" as a Type 17. Can barely make out the STANLEY on the iron…


----------



## bandit571

All tuned up, and ready for work..









Sargent No. 414c, Type 5. V.B.M.
Like the beaded front knob….and the rear tote?

Iron needed sharpened, is all…..not to bad for..$40?


----------



## 33706

> My English Stanley 4 1/2, have heard very little in regards to these and the ones made in Canada models?
> The swish has a very pronounced English accent?
> 
> - Andre


*Andre,* I can't add too much to your Stanley #4 1/2 story, but I have two that somewhat fit your narrative.



















On the left is a 4 1/2C Made in Canada with odd Can.Sweetheart logo on the cutter.
On the right is a 4 1/2 ,Made in England, with notch Can. Cutter.

Undoubtedly there was a mishmosh of spares and leftover parts between Canada and England.

As you can see, these languish in storage, because neither of these measure up to my type 12 Stanley USA 4 1/2. That one is in my cabinet front and center.
I also have a "Rae" #4 1/2, which I like but it lacks a frog adjustment. I did also have a M-F #4 1/2… but we know where that one went…


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> I did also have a M-F #4 1/2… but we know where that one went…
> 
> - poopiekat


) Sadly, shop time is very limited so it's still sitting in the to-do bin :-(


----------



## 33706

It's okay, Ken! I know it went to a good home…


----------



## rad457

> It s okay, Ken! I know it went to a good home…
> 
> - poopiekat


Apparently NOT  My fledgling M.F. collection could of used that addition? Wink Wink Nudge Nudge, I'm still looking for/Need a #62


> ?


?


----------



## bandit571

Box #2 was a tight fit…









Almost too tight….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Small plough for box bottom groove? Reach for the No. 238 of course.


----------



## theoldfart

Sweet tool Smitty, nice pic AND whatcha building? Inquiring minds and all that.


----------



## bandit571

Block plane is a Shelton No. 18 All Steel, Low Angle. 









Box has been completed…label has been found, and printed out…once the Witch's Brew is dry..









This will be where the label will be going. (thought the plane was an #118…)
So, what do I call this next plane?









Thinking it is a #18 by Stanley….









Been wrong before…
Ok, did everyone name the three planes in this picture?









Gage…Stanley…Metallic…..Hmmmm?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

@Kevin - dovetails, at the moment. ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Cherry?

And who's the muscle bound dude in the back?


----------



## Hammerthumb

That Smitty after cutting grooves and chopping the waste out of dovetails.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Walnut. And, Mr. Incredible of course!


----------



## Bertha

Hey Smit, got one for you. Chapin improved.










Kind of a weird mechanism



















The cap has a male post that locks into a keyhole on the lower assembly. This lower assembly mounts to the bed via a slotted screw. The lateral adjust and the cap tightening wheel trap the iron from above. Then there's a weird mechanism that straddles the "frog" (rear boss), twists the keyhole plate, and advances the blade via the slotted screw. Anyhow, this was broken, so I had to fabricate a new one. It wasn't fun but it was worth it. It's insanely sensitive to advance the blade. Breathe on it type of sensitive.




























Tuned, you can advance it to take feathery shavings. The foresole is adjustable, so it takes nice even thicker shavings. Original iron with hard fused to soft. Super heavy. Love it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Al, looks like a hazardous tool, best send it to me for safekeeping!

(I'm drooling, sorry.)


----------



## Bertha

That's some wonderdog you've got there, Smit. Looks older than I'm accustomed to.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Heck, that holdfast is a Veritas, probably one of the newest tols on the bench!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

First dovetail box in more than two years. I'm happy. This is 'off the saw'.


----------



## theoldfart

You've still got it old guy!


----------



## Mosquito

Al, that Chaplin's block plane is pretty cool. Thanks for all the pics.

I was taking inventory tonight, to see what duplicates I had on the Fales parts… Going to have to come up with a storage solution for all these bases some day










(a few things didn't make it in this picture, like the other plane body, the 3/8" plow/rabbet set, and the non-base pieces I have)

As well as the booklet


----------



## theoldfart

Original booklet is pretty neat.
I downloaded a digital copy when I found my Fales, staggering the amount of accessories for it.


----------



## Mosquito

185 pieces, by my count lol


----------



## rad457

VINTAGE ADJUSTABLE STANLEY NO. 10 1/2 WOODWORKING PLANE ~ 8 1/4" 
Condition:Used
"See pictures and description!"
Ended:May 20, 2020 , 18:20
Winning bid:US $310.00
Approximately C $430.28
[ 55 bids ]

Was watching a 10 1/1/2, went out of my allowance range Nice condition but didn't have extra space on the shelf.


----------



## Bertha

A bit pricey, Andre. Someone really wanted it. For $100 less, maybe.


----------



## Bertha

Smit, I just like saying wonderdog, apparently. I've got a couple of the newer ones. Yours looks much bigger for some reason.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hereditary…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Andre, a Type 1 with adjustable mouth is the best way to go on those. Makes working the iron so much easier, and also allows tightening of mouth in a straightforward manner. For those, mid-$200s ain't a bad price. But no higher.


----------



## corelz125

Chaplins are interesting planes. That one looks great.


----------



## sansoo22

Man a guy takes a break for awhile and this place goes nuts. Took forever to catch up through all those photos. I guess I need to go find some more planes now. Only thing I've picked up recently is this NOS Craftsman clone of a Stanley 9-1/2. Its a late model so the lateral adjuster sucks but it came with a box and a booklet all for 10 bucks so why not.









And just for fun a 604c, 5, and 6 going to work on some oak. Doing a little old school before that oak goes on my fancy new router table.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice score on that block plane Sansoo. I would have thrown my $10 and ran ;-)


----------



## JayT

Well, light box is done.










Still need to play with lighting and camera settings to see what produces the best results.


----------



## bandit571

Hmm…









Two very different No. 18 block planes



























Or, one could just recycle a tray, or two…









And stack them up on a shelf, under the bench…


----------



## sansoo22

Here we go plane lovers. A No 4 Type 15 with an orange frog. All original finishes except for the handles. This one is going into my personal collection. My home office needs some decor so why not some planes.


----------



## bandit571

Perhaps a "Line up" like this?


----------



## Bertha

That's a really smart storage idea. I may steal.


----------



## oldwodie

I have used many different brands, and most are just a tool to hold a blade. If sharpened and set up right, most of them do the job.


----------



## CL810

JayT, looks like the photo box is a home run!


----------



## sansoo22

Another one rescued from the rust heap. I got to excited for the challenge and forgot before pics or I'd post it over on the before and after thread.

Anyway Type 15 No 3 had to be stripped nekked but I think it came out pretty good.



























The lever cap is not nickel plated. That was a few hours of my life getting it shined up to resemble the finish of real nickel.


----------



## ac0rn

Sweet.


----------



## Lazyman

Wow Sansoo, I doubt that it looked that nice when it was new.


----------



## HokieKen

Beautiful Sansoo! That think looks pristine! What kind of paint did you use? Did you use some treatment to remove rust?


----------



## BrandonW

Beautiful work, Sansoo. That's what we call in the religion business a "new creation"!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow. Wow. Wow.


----------



## dbray45

Nice work Sansoo

Smitty - Nice dovetails. I am getting ready to start making more kitchen drawers today so dovetails are on the schedule. Also building an enclosure for my generator that is strong and dry but also allows for air - interesting challenge.


----------



## dbray45

Al - I like that plane, never one one like that


----------



## sansoo22

Thanks for the kind words everyone! I enjoy making them pretty as much as using them.



> Beautiful Sansoo! That think looks pristine! What kind of paint did you use? Did you use some treatment to remove rust?
> 
> - HokieKen


Rust removal is Evapo-Rust for 48 hrs except for the iron. I only soak those for a few hours so the chemicals don't mess with the temper. From there its sand paper, brass brushes in the cordless, brake parts cleaner, and a buffer.

For paint its Dupli Color Ford black. Paint code is DE1635 I believe and the secret is to wait until the boss isnt home and bake it in the oven for one hour at 180 degrees.

I have 10 or so more in the queue to restore. I should probably start a blog series. If i can remember to take enough pics of my process I will.


----------



## dbray45

Sorry. I never saw one like that


----------



## bandit571

Put 2 planes to work, today….they have to earn their keep, after all










Stanley No. 7c, Type 9….Sargent VBM 414c, Type 4 Doing edge jointing work…..had a glue up to do, by lunch..









And, this is the "good side".....may need those two planes again….


----------



## corelz125

Good to see you back at it Sansoo


----------



## DoctorHandtool

Funny little scraper who needs a rabbet scraper plane that's handles tilt lol


----------



## DoctorHandtool

And another useless ploy by Stanley llets give the weird belt plane a long adjustable bill up front yea now it's a floor plane.


----------



## sansoo22

> Good to see you back at it Sansoo
> 
> - corelz125


Thanks man…its good to be back. Not getting many wood projects done but I' quite pleased working thru all of the planes I bought last year and making them pretty again.

Foundation repairs are expensive. Doesn't leave a lot of room in the budget for anything else….like lumber


----------



## corelz125

Yep the home repairs come first and most of the time not much fun.


----------



## Karda

home repairs suck


----------



## lysdexic

But home improvement doesn't. Makes you wonder.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Like water features? (Pls don't mock my humble water feature.)


----------



## sansoo22

> But home improvement doesn't. Makes you wonder.
> 
> - lysdexic


For me it has to do with being a maker and therefor a planer. I like the outcome of home repairs but since they were unplanned and thus muck up my home improvement plans they upset my universe.


----------



## corelz125

Some things teeter between a repair and an improvement. There is always one or the other that has to be done. With my luck one thing usually turns Into 3 repairs. Set all the stone yourself smitty?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yep, all loose stack. Probably shows. I was most excited about the fountain worki g.


----------



## sansoo22

Ya the foundation repair will become an improvement as we are installing a footing drain on 3 sides of the foundation. It will let me finish the basement without worry about flooding anymore.

Smitty I like the look of that water feature. Reminds me of an old farmhouse I lived in as a kid. We still had a working hand pump in what became the mud room. House was built in 1889 so I think that counted as indoor plumbing at the time.


----------



## rad457

> Like water features? (Pls don't mock my humble water feature.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Last 2 houses had major ponds, still get the urge for this one but kinda like the lack of maintenance plus the fact we only really have 3 or 4 decent warm months to enjoy yard? Like what you did, might have to figure something out?


----------



## Karda

smitty that is a nice set up a water feature is always nice no matter the size


----------



## lysdexic

> Like water features? (Pls don't mock my humble water feature.)
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Is this what happens when you work from home?


----------



## bigblockyeti

I like home improvement, hate home repair. One is more elective, the other can be closer to an emergency with no defined cost to complete.


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks a lot Smitty, now I have to think about putting in a damn pond!

We had one years ago with miniature water lilies, herons ate all the goldfish.


----------



## bigblockyeti

A pond sounds like fun, I would want one I could waterski in though. Had neighbors that kept their 6' plastic pond stocked with pricey koi, heron dined on those regularly. I'd rather have something that would attract tasty birds like grouse or pheasant.


----------



## bandit571

Made just before Stanley added the frog adjust bolts…









Stanley No. 6, smooth sole. Trying to flatten a panel…









To make the bottom shelf of a Kitchen Island..


----------



## sansoo22

Got my lever cap for this little guy in the mail yesterday. Adjusting it is no longer a tiny nightmare…may have had to much fun with it. That pile just kept growing and i need to sharpen it again.


----------



## sansoo22

A couple more plane pics before I shut down the shop for the night.

Two of these I've posted before. The new one is the Type 14 no 3 with orange frog. These are my 3 favorite planes and I've put a lot of care into getting them exactly how I want. It may not be for every one but here they are.


















There you have it a 2, 3 and 4 all with near complete orange frogs. The handles were redone and I think i incorrectly said the No 4 was all original finishes previously. The 3 and 4 dont have any nickel left on the lever caps. I polished those as close as I could get them.


----------



## ac0rn

Very nice, they didn't look that good when new out of the box.


----------



## sansoo22

> Very nice, they didn t look that good when new out of the box.
> 
> - Jeff


Thanks Jeff. These are going up on the wall in my home office as part of my personal collection. Never thought I'd be a collector but some 50+ planes later and here we are.


----------



## ac0rn

If they will be displayed on the wall, will you spray lacquer on the soles as a rust prevention. Several of the planes from the inheritance were sprayed with lacquer for that purpose.


----------



## sansoo22

> If they will be displayed on the wall, will you spray lacquer on the soles as a rust prevention. Several of the planes from the inheritance were sprayed with lacquer for that purpose.
> 
> - Jeff


I hadn't considered that idea. My plan was to take them down and wax/oil them when I do the users out in the shop. Did you just spray the sole or sides of the body as well?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Q: How many No. 18 block planes does a fella need?










Asking for a friend…


----------



## HokieKen

Five Smitty. No more and no less, exactly five.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thx Ken! I'll let my friend know!


----------



## controlfreak

I was reading in "Handplane Essentials, Revised & Expanded" about a chisel plane. The story was that the author saw one at a flea market and "the seller knew what he had". Later that day I spotted one on ebay with the description "kind of weird". Well, I had to have it. I am now upto seven planes now and it will probably take a month to tune them all. Its all Bandits fault!


----------



## bandit571

Depends on which Number 18..









The Stanley version…or the Shelton….









Shelton No. 18 All Steel ( 1)









Or the Stanley No. 18 ( 1)

Have one of each….seems to be enough…unlike some people..


----------



## CFrye

> Five Smitty. No more and no less, exactly five.
> 
> - HokieKen


Unless someone is giving them away/selling for what amounts to the same. Then it's anybody's guess. At least that's why I have close to 2 dozen braces. But planes may be different?


----------



## sansoo22

Picked up this beautiful HC Marsh M5 from the KyToolSmith. They were built in the city I was born in so I guess a sentimental addition to the collection.


----------



## bandit571

Mr. Seymour Smith & Sons was put to work today…









Ash aprons, needed the curves flattened out so they matched each other…once I laid out the curve..









And cut close to the line…
.








Then installed…


----------



## rad457

> Picked up this beautiful HC Marsh M5 from the KyToolSmith. They were built in the city I was born in so I guess a sentimental addition to the collection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - sansoo22


Kind of looks like a W5 Winchester that is coming my way, but mine not nearly as purity! (Yet?)
Ever since touring the Winchester house years ago I have this strange obsession with some of there tools?


----------



## sansoo22

That is nice looking Winchester W5. Some tools just get under your skin that way. I've been searching for a brass badged sargent for quite some time but never find one other than ebay and they cost too much for me.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't own any Winchester tools but I do find them interesting too Andre. Until a couple years ago I didn't know they made anything but guns. Only Winchester I currently have is a .22 my dad gave me for my 12th birthday. When I was a kid, we got our first pocket knife at 8 and our first rifle at 12. And we knew how to handle both long before we were given either…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Got a Winchester saw, no plane(s). Nice refurb!


----------



## bandit571

Have a Winchester 6" square…

After WW1, Winchester wanted to keep it's workforce at work….but the demand for weapons had.."tanked", so they turned to making tools….


----------



## ac0rn

Hokeiken
"When I was a kid, we got our first pocket knife at 8" Yes, that was the year of my first self inflicted scar on my left index finger. (that was the vice used to hold the stick) :>)


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah but you learned not to cut towards your finger didn't ya Jeff? ;-)


----------



## corelz125

I have a few Winchester planes most of the ones I have are Sargent made. Andre that one is Stanley made


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Another sad day for this Klutz.

Auction price on Bedrock 605 1/4 was $613 today. 
Way above my retirement income, unless I don't pay rent next month.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/303589973114?_trksid=p2471758.m4704









The claim of all original Japanning seems false to me. Plane has all the marks of rusty plane, refurbished with Evaporust and wire brush. Hope I am wrong or buyer might be upset paying original condition price for refurbished.

With prices like these I will never complete my Bedrock collection. 
These 605 1/4 are rare enough, all I can do is dream. :-(

Cheers!


----------



## sansoo22

If I ignored the fact its a Bed Rock and just looked at it like a typical 5-1/4 I planned to restore I'd be leery about the work I'd need to put in to bring it up to the quality I like turning out. The heel is what bothers me the most about the claim of original japanning. Its dull at the edge but super shiny every where else. If its original it looks like a gloss top coat has been applied.

Judging by all the pitting i see this was one rusty old bird at some point not long ago.


----------



## corelz125

Klutz you have a 602?


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> Klutz you have a 602?
> - corelz125


No. 
Sorry to disappoint, but also not interested in owning a 602, unless it's nearly free?

Found a rusty regular #2 at local estate sale in a bundle of hand planes I bought. Didn't know how special it was until I brought it home. After minor clean up, realized the damn thing is too small for my big klutzy paws. Never could find a comfortable grip, only 2 smallest fingers could fit around the tote. Sat unused for almost two decades until I sold it to finance a stack of Veritas PM-11 blades for my Bedrocks. 

BTW - I am not a collector. Life forced me into a poor early retired life due serious medical issues about 6 years ago. Now can only afford to buy tools I can/will use in my shop, or that fall out of sky into my hands from an yard/garage/estate sale for dirt cheap. When you don't have ANY income, have to make sacrifices.

I own two regular 5 1/4 planes, and I use them fairly often. So I know 605 1/4 would get used if I can find one.
The dream continues…..


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…needed grooves ploughed, today…had a choice…either the Stanley #45..









Or..something a bit older..









That made curlies like this…









Made back in '64….1864….









Only bad part? No depth stop…so, I used both planes, today….









Also needed to clean up a couple dados….


----------



## sansoo22

Here is my cheap pawn shop Craftsman franken-plane. Its a 3704 BB which I believe is a Miller Falls made block plane. Except the front knob and adjuster dont seem right and it has an iron stamped 187-37052 DD. 


















I don't like that high front knob at all. Makes for a weird grip on this thing. Will probably replace it with a spare stanley knob I have. But like I said it was cheap and it makes fluffy shavings.


----------



## rad457

My Winchester showed up, spent the afternoon playing with it I must be spoiled with the PMV-11 irons because that Winchester iron was a pain the polish and sharpen. Did some comparisons to my Bailey #5 and was surprised at the weight difference, casting on the Stanley definitely a lot heavier and of course the Winchester is the first plane I own with a corrugated base which was pretty flat.


----------



## bandit571

Decided to see what a full depth of cut would be…









Ah,..yep….more for a Tongue & Groove joint.









Makes a lot of curlies, though…

And, this Sargent will need a good sharpening done..









#3416….









And, maybe a good wipe down…


----------



## bndawgs

Thought I'd post these here and see if there are any I should keep or try to sell them? And how much should I ask for them? TIA


----------



## Lazyman

I'm finally tuning up the planes I have purchased at a few garage sales over the last couple of years and making them usable. I finally understand the zen of a well tuned plane.

I almost forgot about this No. 4 I got from my grandfather about 25 years ago. It got stuck on the back of a shelf and sort of forgotten because I wasn't doing much wood working at the time. It looks to me that it was probably only used once or twice. If I had to guess my grandfather probably bought it to fix a door that was sticking or something. As far as I know he never did any fine woodworking-just the sort of things a farmer might do to repair things around the farm. This is the condition that I got it in and you can see the original box behind it but unfortunately, most of the writing looks like it was eaten away by bugs or something. Anyway, I did a little research and it appears to be a type 18 No 4 which would date it to 1946-1947. Does that sound about right base upon these pictures?





































I still need to fiddle with it as it doesn't work well but you can see in the last picture that the blade was honed to a fine polish (on both sides).


----------



## KentInOttawa

Nathan It looks like it could be a Type 18. The dead giveaway is whether the depth adjusting knob has diagonal knurling like this. I can't really tell from your photos. Either way, it looks to be in pretty nice condition.


----------



## Lazyman

Thanks Kent. It definitely has the diagonal knurling.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Nathan - There is something about Type 18s that just speaks to me. Somehow I started getting more of them so I just decided to carry on and work towards a set of them. I now have these 2 No 5s, and also a No 3, 6 & 7. Mine are all made in Canada and all have the knurling running opposite to most Type 18s. I thought for a while that the direction of the knurling related to the country of manufacture and asked here about it. Apparently Poopiekat has a "Made in Can" plane with the knurling in the same direction as yours so that rules out that theory.


----------



## HokieKen

The ever-elusive #24 has reared its head on ebay! If I all of a sudden quit posting on here late Sunday night, it means I won. And my wife killed me.


----------



## bandit571

Either with the grain..or…against the grain..Amazing what a sharp iron can do..









Chipbreaker needed flattened down a bit…..a few taps with a ball pean hammer flattened the high spot.


----------



## controlfreak

> The ever-elusive #24 has reared its head on ebay! If I all of a sudden quit posting on here late Sunday night, it means I won. And my wife killed me.
> 
> - HokieKen


Looks very nice but with 23 watchers she may have to kill you twice.


----------



## Lazyman

That's better. Just needed a fresh edge and the frog adjusted slightly forward. 









Now I can only blame my technique.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> The ever-elusive #24 has reared its head on ebay! If I all of a sudden quit posting on here late Sunday night, it means I won. And my wife killed me.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> Looks very nice but with 23 watchers she may have to kill you twice.
> 
> - controlfreak


25 and climbing. 
Might have to flip a coin on whose wife is killing whom multiple times?
LOL


----------



## bandit571

Hmm, type 7, Stanley No. 8…









behind it? Sargent VBM #1404c…a Stanley N0. 4 ( unknown type, maybe a T-20) and a Stanley No. 5-1/5, Type 17…

Oh, and over on the door.Stanley No. 3, Type 11….


----------



## corelz125

That's a nice #24 there but out of my budget. I could of got a Union X8 for a little less but still to steep for me.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Steve, I'd be interested in those cord cordovans, especially if that's a number six or number 4 1/2. Let me know via pm


----------



## 33706

> Steve, I'd be interested in those cord cordovans, especially if that's a number six or number 4 1/2. Let me know via pm
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


*Smitty*, looks like you and I are the only two people that I know of that actively chase down the old cordovan planes. Heck, I'm even still trying to assemble a set of Two-Tones in every color combination, and they're getting hard to come by.


----------



## HokieKen

I feel sure that #24 is gonna slip by me. I just can't bring myself to pay LN prices for a 70 year old plane. Even if it is a Millers Falls. There's a nice, rusty and crusty #22 up for grabs too that needs a full overhaul but is complete and appears structurally sound. So I'll window shop the 24 but I have hopes for the 22 ;-)


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Speaking of Miller Falls planes:

1) I never see a Miller Falls plane in the wild. Maybe it is an Arizona thing, but Zip, Zero, Nada, None can be found.
Occasionally see one sitting at an antique dealer or plane collector shelf with 2-3x LN price while on vacation in another state; but never find any at someone's garage or estate sale. The only place I see them in quantity is on Fleabay. Without Fleabay and pictures on LJ, would not even know Miller Falls planes exist. 

2) Miller Falls plane collectors love their planes! Anytime I see a plane in good condition, it is always priced near retail of Woodriver plane or higher. Despite this, have been 'fortunate' enough to own a couple of Miller Falls hand planes over they years. Currently, only own a single lonely Miller Falls #9, that was part of a large group of grungy parts planes I won. It looks like this:



























Between the weld repairs, piece missing from base, and rust; I almost feel sorry for the little dude. The weld is solid, just needs some clean up to return to service. lol

3) At one point in my hand plane learning exercise, owned a MF900 economy plane. Didn't like it at all. Gave it a friend for shaving doors in his new home. Have always liked the 2 piece MF lever cap design better, over the one piece. Seems much better at holding cap iron flat/firm? 
Many of the Stanley cap irons I get look like pretzels and occasionally even reforming the radius on metal rod with a body hammer, plus copious grinding; won't make them flat enough to keep shavings from going under the cap iron. :-( Didn't see that issue on the #14 with a two piece cap?

3) Made a decision driven by funding that could never be a plane collector. Further decided only needed one numbered set of planes for my work in shop. I had some Bedrock planes and really liked the feel of the heavier castings, so focused on buying a set of user Bedrocks. I have since sold off all my MF (except fledgling above) and most of my regular Stanley planes. 
But every time I see folks like Kenny drooling over a nice MF on Fleabay, I sort of regret my decision for not chasing after a set of MF planes instead. :-(

At this point, I think it may be too late to switch? 
Just like the Bedrock planes, inexpensive rusty Miller Falls are getting more scarce every month. Thanks to the resurgence of neanderthal wood working, demand has spiked, pushing prices to levels only collectors can afford. I sort of feel lucky for starting my Bedrock collection 10+ years ago when prices were cheaper. 
So - Best luck to those that afford the cool toys/tools.

Thanks for reading. 
Will return to my lurking and dream about these cool planes you folks share. 

.


----------



## bandit571

There IS one just like this on FeeBay…right now


----------



## HokieKen

Captain, as an engineer, the 3-point lever cap is what got me interested in MF planes to begin with. And while I like the lever caps and do believe that the design is theoretically sound, I don't really think it provides any real advantage in practice ;-)

Know what does though? Tbe ribs cast under the knob! That's the real reason I decided to work towards a full till of Millers Falls instead of Stanley. I must have a habit of torquing the knob on planes more than most because them spinning is a problem for me on any non-MF plane I've ever owned.

And honestly, I just like the look with the back-filled logo on the lever cap and red frog  Them thangs is just sexy!

The value line or type 5 Millers Falls planes (solid lever cap and phillips head screws are how to identify) don't even count to my mind. The quality took a sharp and sudden nose-dive in the sixties. So I would leave those alone.


----------



## bandit571

The one on Feebay looks just like the No. 9 I have in the shop….









Had to make sure it was still down there…









Yep…


----------



## HokieKen

#9s and #14s are common and affordable on eBay for anyone interested in giving MF planes a shot ;-)


----------



## rad457

> #9s and #14s are common and affordable on eBay for anyone interested in giving MF planes a shot ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


 Have an #8 and a #900, but that 07 really intrigues me now if the #24 was CAD $ I might throw in a pray Mary bid


----------



## rad457

As long as we are all waiting for Kenny to jump on that #24 has anyone got or used the new SW #62, no new reviews in 5 or 6 years?


----------



## BenDupre

> As long as we are all waiting for Kenny to jump on that #24 has anyone got or used the new SW #62, no new reviews in 5 or 6 years?
> 
> - Andre


I have one. It seems to be a nice piece of hardware. I really haven't used it much though. Just got it honed and tuned and put it up. I will say this: the sides aren't square to the base so my hopes of using it for shooting are dashed. Not even sure how to approach correcting that.

Ben


----------



## rad457

> As long as we are all waiting for Kenny to jump on that #24 has anyone got or used the new SW #62, no new reviews in 5 or 6 years?
> 
> - Andre
> 
> I have one. It seems to be a nice piece of hardware. I really haven't used it much though. Just got it honed and tuned and put it up. I will say this: the sides aren't square to the base so my hopes of using it for shooting are dashed. Not even sure how to approach correcting that.
> 
> Ben
> 
> - BenDupre


That is a surprise, other reviews made mention of the square base? Depending on how bad, what I have done in the past was to use the rolled automotive sandpaper that is pressure adhesive on a flat surface (I use one side of the Jointer or the table saw wing) and square off the sides. Usually flatten the sides of all the old planes I have bought? Never had any problems with any Veritas Planes but my LN102 was a hair off The LN 60 1/2 rabbit was perfect!


----------



## Lazyman

Either everyone is waiting until the last minute or the #24 is overpriced? With less than 11 hours left, there are still zero bids.


----------



## CL810

That's bad news Ben. The 62 makes for a great shooting plane. If it weren't for my shooting boards my 62 would not see much, if any, action. Are both sides out of square? How much out of square? Do the sides "tilt" in or out?



> I have one. It seems to be a nice piece of hardware. I really haven't used it much though. Just got it honed and tuned and put it up. I will say this: the sides aren't square to the base so my hopes of using it for shooting are dashed. Not even sure how to approach correcting that.
> 
> Ben
> 
> - BenDupre


----------



## HokieKen

> Either everyone is waiting until the last minute or the #24 is overpriced? With less than 11 hours left, there are still zero bids.
> 
> - Lazyman


I feel sure everyone is just waiting Nathan. Is $200 overpriced? Probably. But it's one of those planes that are so hard to find that somebody's gonna buy it anyway. That price is too steep for me but that's mostly because a #8-sized jointer just isn't a practical user for me. My #7 rarely even comes out of the till. My jumbo jack is the biggest plane that gets used regularly. Although my #18 (#6 size) is growing on me.

All that said, if nobody else bids by some miracle, I imagine that #24 will be headed my way. I should be able to sell my Record 07 for enough to recoup enough that the wife will just injure me and not actually kill me ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Ben, I can machine the sides square to the sole on your #62. if your interested shoot me a PM and we'll discuss.


----------



## bandit571

Smitty seems to like these things…









Stanley No. 60-1/2, and Stanley No. 9-1/4…









I shipped the better of TWO No. 60-1/2 planes out the other day. Kept the worst of the two..









Doesn't seem to affect it. 









The #9-1/4's iron was in bad shape..but, this is considered a"shape"....~....right?

Then, we have a Mutt…









Also got it's iron worked on ( 3 irons in one morning?)









I guess this will just have to do…


----------



## BenDupre

> That s bad news Ben. The 62 makes for a great shooting plane. If it weren t for my shooting boards my 62 would not see much, if any, action. Are both sides out of square? How much out of square? Do the sides "tilt" in or out?
> 
> - CL810


I can't recall. My shop is currently boxed up so I can't check. I'ts been packed for over a year because we moved into a new house, and I can't set up shop until I have the basement finished. Kids get 300 sf, Dad gets 300 sf. Good news I am in the taping/texturing phase so close… I wonder if my tools miss me?


----------



## bigblockyeti

With 40 people watching and still no bids as of right now, I suspect everyone is waiting. It will probably come down to two or three people who want it and really don't care what it costs, I'm betting on a selling price between $350-$400.


----------



## bandit571

Hmm, I have a Type 9, No. 7c from Stanley

And a No.0-7, type 4 from Ohio Tool Co.

I think I'm set for a while…..

There are 2 No. 9 for sale there…..seems I have 3 of my own….

Pretty much set for bench planes.

Including a M-F No. 15, Type 2?


----------



## Karda

yea sounds like your set but don't you need one more. When I was collecting fighting knives there were 5 that I wanted, thats all just those 5. When I sold the collection I had 21. You always need one more.


----------



## Karda

In one of the knife collectors groups a guy posted this to organize your thoughts about that new knife you want. You could replace knife with plane. couldn't resit sharing


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm..









Hmmm…









( 6s and 7s)
Hmmm…








(look up on top, too)


----------



## HokieKen

Only 2 bids deep at $213 with just under 2 hours to go. I bet it goes for $300+


----------



## corelz125

Latest Sargent to the herd. Shaw's patent #14


----------



## Lazyman

> Only 2 bids deep at $213 with just under 2 hours to go. I bet it goes for $300+
> 
> - HokieKen


$347
It looks like several bidders were using sniping software because there was a flurry in the last 5 seconds.


----------



## corelz125

Sniping software and money to burn.


----------



## rad457

> Sniping software and money to burn.
> 
> - corelz125


LOL! I dozed off but see someone is running up the cost on my 07


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, that's pretty much in line with what I figured that 24 would go for. I imagine that's just a plane I'll never have. If I'm dropping that kind of cabbage on a plane, it'll be a Veritas or LN.

Andre, the 07s regularly sell for around $100 if they're complete. I spent almost 2 years watching them before I finally scored one for around $60. That's the cheapest I've seen one sell for before or since…


----------



## HokieKen

> LOL! I dozed off but see someone is running up the cost on my 07
> 
> - Andre


Is this 07~ the one you're watching Andre? If not, I would put it on your list.

Edit: Watch this one too. Both have a shot of being a decent price. It's Monday though so they'll probably both get bid up to a stupid price. Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that Mondays are the best day for sellers and the worst day for buyers on Ebay? I imagine it has to do with people being back at work and not feeling like working…


----------



## rad457

> LOL! I dozed off but see someone is running up the cost on my 07
> 
> - Andre
> 
> Is this 07~ the one you re watching Andre? If not, I would put it on your list.
> 
> Edit: Watch this one too. Both have a shot of being a decent price. It s Monday though so they ll probably both get bid up to a stupid price. Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that Mondays are the best day for sellers and the worst day for buyers on Ebay? I imagine it has to do with people being back at work and not feeling like working…
> 
> - HokieKen


That 1 st. one has the famous, may not ship to Canada flag, due to past experiences usually skip them 
The second one is the one I'm hoping for! Between the $ exchange and shipping cost, not to many deals!
LOL! was sipping some Jameson's last night, depressed after paying my property taxes, and put in a bunch of feeler bids on Fee-bay, last time this happened had a lot of packages to hide or attempt to explain to the Wifey.


----------



## sansoo22

The feeler bids and low ball best offers have landed me in trouble before. "No way I don't get outbid on this" or "No way they accept that low of an offer" turns into oops how do I explain 5 planes showing up this week.


----------



## Karda

I had that happen years ago. I bid on an e book on ebay, I latter found the same book as a buy it now for the same price and got it figuring I would lose the auction. I bought 2 ebooks exactly the same. I won the auction


----------



## corelz125

Sansoo you have to get to the mail before everyone else and hide it in the shop


----------



## Karda

better take a sick day so you can get to the mail first,


----------



## rad457

Problem is the plane tills are all full and no place left to hide them Same problem with hand Saws? Before that Chisels! Guess it might be time for a NEW and BIGGER SHOP?


----------



## sansoo22

> Sansoo you have to get to the mail before everyone else and hide it in the shop
> 
> - corelz125


She's a teacher so she gets off work way before me. I'd have to use Karda's idea to take a sick day. But then I run into Andre's problem where I've run out of places to hide them.

All that being said I still haven't learned my lesson. I haven't finished the queue of planes I supposed to be restoring and already have some "feeler" bids back out there.


----------



## Karda

I like Andres solution, a bigger shop, or appeal to here practicle side and present your plane ans saw collection as an investment


----------



## corelz125

I buy them when I can get them at a good price no matter how far the back log is.


----------



## KentInOttawa

For those so inclined, there's currently a cordovan No 7 on eBay. I'd never seen one before.


----------



## HokieKen

I have 4 planes currently in the "to-do" pile. All Millers Falls and all for my personal till. So I figured I better start working on them. First up is a #8 (Stanley 3 size) that I've had for several months now.









Brought the sole and frog to work today and sandblasted the paint and rust off them so at least I'm making some kind of progress  This one will replace a Dunlap #3 (Millers Falls made) that's been holding a spot for it in the till. This one is missing the stud and knob for depth adjustment so I'll be stealing those from the Dunlap.

Up next will be the #11 (Stanley 5-1/4). But at the rate I'm going, that could be a year from now… Then I have another #10 (Stanley 4-1/2) and #14 (Stanley 5) that Poopiekat sent me. And if I don't buy any more by then I'll be caught up!


----------



## rad457

Now I know who stole my MF#10 I didn't bid on that #24 cause I thought you really wanted it??? 
Anyone here bidding up that MF #9 on Fee-bay?
Did put a PMV-11 iron in my Stanley 4 1/2, my go to smoother now!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> For those so inclined, there s currently a cordovan No 7 on eBay. I d never seen one before.
> 
> - Kent


Oh, that is sweet!


----------



## 33706

> For those so inclined, there s currently a cordovan No 7 on eBay. I d never seen one before.
> 
> - Kent
> 
> Oh, that is sweet!
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Paint on the face of the frog noted. I wonder if it's a re-paint? I'm watching…


----------



## HokieKen

> Now I know who stole my MF#10 I didn t bid on that #24 cause I thought you really wanted it???
> Anyone here bidding up that MF #9 on Fee-bay?
> Did put a PMV-11 iron in my Stanley 4 1/2, my go to smoother now!
> 
> - Andre


Not me on the #9 Andre! And I didn't bid on the 24 cause it was outta my price range ;-) There's a 22 on there ending tomorrow that I intend to go after but that's all at the moment. And I have two #10s now but neither came from ebay so it wasn't me! ;-)


----------



## lysdexic

> For those so inclined, there s currently a cordovan No 7 on eBay. I d never seen one before.
> 
> - Kent
> 
> Oh, that is sweet!
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop
> 
> Paint on the face of the frog noted. I wonder if it s a re-paint? I m watching…
> 
> - poopiekat


Definitely a repaint. I checked mine (primarily type 11s) and none had a significant paint job on the frog face.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

This is Type 21. Different rules.


----------



## Karda

whats different about it


----------



## HokieKen

I can never remember… were the cordovan ones the Canadian or the English ones?


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I can never remember… were the cordovan ones the Canadian or the English ones?
> 
> - HokieKen


Made in the USA & Canada. I do not know about the UK production; I've never seen one personally. If I'm not mistaken, they're a 1970's thing just before the Canadian and US production stopped.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

https://www.lumberjocks.com/Smitty_Cabinetshop/blog/45553

Frogs on my examples are painted as well, so I think that No. 7 on the 'bay is right / unmessed with. And I missed out on that No. 164 on the 'bay as well, grrrr…. Stupid, rare planes…


----------



## HokieKen

I'm winning a plane I really want right now. But I have a meeting from 12-1 that I can't get out of and I'll likely be presenting so I won't even be able to excuse myself. The auction ends at 12:21. Oh the suspense!


----------



## controlfreak

> I m winning a plane I really want right now. But I have a meeting from 12-1 that I can t get out of and I ll likely be presenting so I won t even be able to excuse myself. The auction ends at 12:21. Oh the suspense!
> 
> - HokieKen


Increase your max bid to the highest you are willing to pay and roll the dice.


----------



## HokieKen

> Increase your max bid to the highest you are willing to pay and roll the dice.
> 
> - controlfreak


Already did.


----------



## Lazyman

I really need a plow plane. I am tired of using the router to cut grooves. Things can simply go wrong too quickly and ruin a piece. I've noticed that the most affordable are #45 combinations on eBay that usually only have the one iron that was left in it the last time it was used but the irons being sold separately seems to me more rare. Have any of you made their own set of irons, at least the most essential ones? Or is there a source for "new" irons? Since grooves is the main thing I want it for, perhaps I should really just look for a plow plane? Would that be a #46?

I'm still coming up the curve when it comes to planes.


----------



## rad457

> I really need a plow plane. I am tired of using the router to cut grooves. Things can simply go wrong too quickly and ruin a piece. I ve noticed that the most affordable are #45 combinations on eBay that usually only have the one iron that was left in it the last time it was used but the irons being sold separately seems to me more rare. Have any of you made their own set of irons, at least the most essential ones? Or is there a source for "new" irons? Since grooves is the main thing I want it for, perhaps I should really just look for a plow plane? Would that be a #46?
> 
> I m still coming up the curve when it comes to planes.
> 
> - Lazyman


The Veritas Combi plane blades fit the 46/46/55. I was luck to find a #45 with blades set 1 & 2 included but was missing the #19 (7/8") iron, took a while but found one that wasn't priced too stupid! Current problem at the moment is Fee-bay prices are on the verge of criminal?


----------



## HokieKen

I'm thinking on adding a 46 to my arsenal Nathan. I am a fan of skewed blades personally. But, blades are far harder to come across and far more expensive than for the 45s. No reason you can't make blades for either from some tool steel though.


----------



## HokieKen

And like Andre said, the Veritas blades will fit the 45 but the notch for the depth setting won't be engaged IIRC.


----------



## HokieKen

Come on home to papa!









#22C Type 3. She needs some TLC but that will fill out the "must-have" slots in my till with all Millers Falls  I now have #8, 9, 10, 11, 14, 15, 18 and 22. If I stumble on a #7 or a #24 that I can afford, great. If not, I'm fine with just these 

And I got it for almost $20 less than my max bid ))


----------



## lysdexic

> This is Type 21. Different rules.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


So my first comment on this thread in a long time was completely exposed for the ignorant bull******************** it is. I stand corrected and will crawl back under my rock.


----------



## controlfreak

> Increase your max bid to the highest you are willing to pay and roll the dice.
> 
> - controlfreak
> 
> Already did.
> 
> - HokieKen


I admit it works much better in the last 10 seconds but good luck.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks controlfreak. I won it ;-)


----------



## controlfreak

> I ve noticed that the most affordable are #45 combinations on eBay that usually only have the one iron that was left in it the last time it was used but the irons being sold separately seems to me more rare.
> 
> - Lazyman


It took me awhile but I was able to buy seperately a very nice Stanley 45 and a complete box of rust free sharp blades for $250 I have always wanted one and thought it would make me complete…...until I wanted a router plane. So now it sits next to a Stanley 71.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> This is Type 21. Different rules.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop
> 
> So my first comment on this thread in a long time was completely exposed for the ignorant bull******************** it is. I stand corrected and will crawl back under my rock.
> 
> - lysdexic


It was a great comment. You were calling me out for not sharing information freely. I regret my lazy approach to participating on this thread when the subject matter is a type or mfg'r I can help with.


----------



## Lazyman

I stumbled upon a 71 at an estate sale about 3 years ago that I got for $35 and I have used it a few times for dados It definitely comes in handy.

I bid on a 45 today that looked like it was in pretty good shape and had 35 irons but got sniped in the last few seconds. The winning bid was $179 which based upon some of the prices out there was probably pretty good. I didn't expect to win with my $177 bid but I thought it would hit at least $200.


----------



## Mosquito

Nathan, it may have hit $200 had your max bid been $198 lol That's the thing I always consider when I'm "the next highest bidder". Just because the other person won it for 1 bid higher than mine, doesn't mean that was their max


----------



## HokieKen

Why would you want a frog that isn't red? ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Wow, a wed fwog! Looks scary.


----------



## Lazyman

Good point Mos but I would have felt a lot better had I pushed the sniper 20 buck higher. I am just surprised there was only one sniper on this one.


----------



## tshiker

Lazyman, I saw that auction, a lot of those cutters looked hokey to me!


----------



## HokieKen

Nathan - if you just want the 45 for plowing grooves, you might be better off buying a plane and then picking up individual irons. When you're eyeing ones on Ebay, I'd post it in the Stanley 45 thread and let Mos and those guys look it over to make sure it's all there.


----------



## HokieKen

So it turns out that not only is that #8 (Stanley 3 size) missing the stud for the depth adjuster but the threads are totally stripped out :-/ Almost like intentionally drilled out really. I have no idea why anyone would do that. But now there's a replacement stud JB Welded into the oversized hole and it works just fine


----------



## Mosquito

Irons are honestly almost more important than the actual plane itself, in my opinion (for #45s). The plane can be missing a bunch of pieces, and look terrible, but still function fine. It seems like a lot of those cutter boxes must have gotten wet, or stayed in humid environments, and trashed the irons, with lots of pitting. I guess the saving point, is that it's not a smoothing plane lol


----------



## HokieKen

I normally take my totes and knobs down to bare wood and just oil em up but DANG that's some light colored "tropical hardwood"!








Suggestions on what to use to make it more "Rosewood-ey"?


----------



## Karda

I would use oil then paste wax, but use an oil that won't yellow it, Anything will darken wood, I use BLO and paste wax on my tool handles has a real nice feel


----------



## HokieKen

That's my go-to finish for tools too Mike. But this wood is so much lighter than any of my other planes, it needs some dye or stain. I'll probably just see what kind of stain I have laying around that has a red tint and roll with it.


----------



## DLK

Looks like a MF, so stain it first with red mahogany transtint. I oil with truoil. But I might use shellac with transtint. Then alfie shine. (I have not tried truoil over transtint, but I bet it would be fine.)


----------



## corelz125

Smitty what is this block for on the 444?


----------



## HokieKen

Well, I had some Minwax stain called "honey" so that's what I used. I'm gonna have to get some of that transtint though Don, sounds like the proper solution.

Not great but it'll do!









The tru-oil sounds like a winner though Don. I'll put a few coats of that on tomorrow and call it done.

Now that the final Millers Falls plane had been acquired to round out my lineup, I have a suspicion that tbe whole team may be getting new, matching totes and knobs in the near future anyway


----------



## bandit571

Gunstock and BLO









On Ash.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Smitty what is this block for on the 444?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - corelz125


Looks like a fence for a router plane. It doesn't belong to a 444…


----------



## Karda

Ok you have rounded out your line up, what is your new line up going to be


----------



## HokieKen

I dunno ;-) Maybe I'll work on replacing them with all type 1s now? Or start collecting all the MF block planes? Or, I have a pretty good start on getting all the MF eggbeater drills… I'm sure I'll come up with something to keep me occupied ;-)

I think it took me about 6 years to get all the bench planes (other than 7 and 24) so I can be patient when I need to be.


----------



## bandit571

Millers Falls?


















#170 and #1950


----------



## Karda

sounds like a plan


----------



## tshiker

> Smitty what is this block for on the 444?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - corelz125


Looks like a fence for a Stanley 66 beading plane to me.


----------



## HokieKen

For some reason, I had it in my head that this was a MF made Dunlap. After taking it apart I see it's not. I believe it's probably Sargent made based on the 408? The iron is branded Dunlap.



























Whatever it is, it's up for grabs if anybody wants it. It's missing the depth adjuster that I just pilfered but otherwise is complete. It's been my scrub plane for the past 5 years so it's set up with a big camber on the blade. The top of the tote is busted too. $20 will get it shipped in CONUS. Otherwise I'll just stick in in my spare parts pile.


----------



## bandit571

Correct?









Still trying to ID this #4….









Stanley?









Hmmm, Type 20?









Or?









Nothing stamped into the iron.


----------



## theoldfart

> Smitty what is this block for on the 444?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - corelz125


66 beader fence, looks like the one on my 66.


----------



## corelz125

At least that's one less part that mysteriously disappears from the 444.


----------



## DanKrager

*corelz225*, I didn't know what that circled part was for, but I was pretty sure it wasn't part of the 444 original equipment. Until I got one, I was searching far and wide and was pretty familiar with what should be present in a complete set. Lookin' good! It deserves the name upgrade.

DanK


----------



## corelz125

Dan unfortunately that 444 isn't mine. It's on ebay right now.


----------



## Mosquito

On ebay? So you're saying it could be yours ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

Do any of you have or have any experience with Record plough or combinations planes?


----------



## theoldfart

I have had a 405 for a number of years. A good plane.


----------



## rad457

> On ebay? So you re saying it could be yours ;-)
> 
> - Mosquito


Last few planes I went after didn't turn out so well, Flee - Bay appears to have not my go to place anymore
But hey throw out a $5.00 bid on a M.F.s screw driver and its yours Got to figure out what I need them for?


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Do any of you have or have any experience with Record plough or combinations planes?
> 
> - Lazyman


I have limited experience with my 050C.


----------



## corelz125

I doubt it MOS the prices for the 444s on ebay seem to go up pretty quick and out of my price range.


----------



## Mosquito

lol I understand corelz, I'm just saying it's still an option … ;-)

Only record I have so far Nathan, is a 043 (or 3), and all 3 are good. I agree with (and trust) Kevin that the 405 is similarly good.


----------



## Lazyman

Thanks. I just noticed that the Record plow (plough) planes seem to be generally a little cheaper and curiously most include a full set of the irons with them while many of the US Stanley's often just have the last cutter that was used in the plane. I suspect that means that the Record planes are probably newer but as long as the consensus is that they work, I may expand my search for a plow or combo plane to Record planes. There seems to be a bunch in the UK, many are buy-it-now, but even with the higher shipping costs and exchange rate, they may still be cheaper. I just have to figure out what custom duties and taxes I will have to pay and if they going to be high enough that it is not a good deal. Anyone know what sort of extra fees you have to pay for shipping from the UK to the US.

BTW, I was specifically looking at Record #50s but, dang it, now I will have to look at the sexier 405 too.

Another question, if anyone knows…The Record irons look like that they have a tab similar to the Stanley irons for the micro-adjuster. Anyone ever tried to use a Record cutter in a Stanley 45? There seem to be more of those available so I wonder if that would be a cheaper alternative for the rarer Stanley cutters?


----------



## theoldfart

Stanley 45 and Record 405 parts are mostly interchangeable.

Also don't ignore Craftsman, Sargent and Fulton


----------



## CO_Goose

> Stanley 45 and Record 405 parts are mostly interchangeable.
> 
> Also don t ignore Craftsman, Sargent and Fulton
> 
> - theoldfart


Wards Master is also a Stanley 45 with the Stanley Logo ground off


----------



## CL810

I had a Wards 45 and it was indistinguishable from a Stanley 45. They typically sell for much less than the Stanley.


----------



## rad457

Awful lot of talk here bout 45s, Mos. going to get in a huff, there be a thread for them ya all know? 
Back on topic, over paid for a M.F. #9 on Flee-Bay today, only another 10 or so to catch Kenny
Should see it in a month or so, if it ever gets across the border?


----------



## sansoo22

> Awful lot of talk here bout 45s, Mos. going to get in a huff, there be a thread for them ya all know?
> Back on topic, over paid for a M.F. #9 on Flee-Bay today, only another 10 or so to catch Kenny
> Should see it in a month or so, if it ever gets across the border?
> 
> - Andre


Ebay abuses me with its pricing as well. Most auctions lately go for WAAAY higher than I think they should, I get discouraged and over pay for something, then out of the blue I find a No 3 type 14 with a good chunk of the logo on the tote intact with a buy it now of $35. Of course I have to buy the No 3 because who wouldnt at that price.


----------



## theoldfart

Sansoo, it pays to just watch and wait. I usually don't go hunting for a particular tool, I just monitor a few search terms and now and then I get lucky. It does pay to know what's good and what's desirable. I paid twenty bucks for my last mitre box, a Goodell mfg Greenfield. Most folks aren't even aware of them. Same goes with Craig's List.


----------



## Lazyman

It just occurred to me that the Record 405 (or other Stanley 45 clones for that matter) may have rosewood on it. I seem to recall hearing that can make importing one from the UK very tricky and it might even be confiscated by customs. Anyone know the rules on that?

EDIT: I just found this link about how they modified the CITES rules in 2019 so that shipments with less that 10 kg of rosewood are exempt from import restrictions. It appears that this was mostly implemented to make it easier to sell, carry and ship musical instruments across borders. If I read this correctly, it should no longer be a problem importing vintage tools that still have their rosewood handles on them. The link is from an Australian government site. Hopefully the US customs officials understand the changes.


----------



## HokieKen

I generally just buy from US sellers on Ebay Nathan. Even if it costs me a little more, I think it's worth avoiding all the hassle. Of course if it save you enough, then it's worth a shot. Just make sure you have financial recourse if it doesn't ever make it here and seller isn't cooperative.

And I think all of the 45's had Rosewood handles. Not sure about Record et al but I think the Stanleys always did.

Have you pinged Mos' to see if he has any for sale? I know he had a few extras but I bought one and EarlS bought one so maybe he's down to only his keepers.


----------



## Lazyman

I decided screw it. I just bought a Record 405 from the UK. It was just too shiny to pass up and the net cost even with GBP to USD exchange and international shipping was no worse than some of the piles of rust that I've seen for Stanley 45's on eBay in the US. Apparently, it is shipped via eBay's international shipping process which is supposed to take care of all the customs fees up front.










I'll tell my wife that she just bought me a very early birthday present. Last year it was a garage sale CNC that was too cheap to pass up and the year before my Laguna Revo Lathe.

EDIT: It was a buy-it-now price to so I didn't have to hassle with a bidding war and sniping at the last second either. Net USD price is about $252 which considering its condition seems like a better deal than one I have to spend the next month cleaning. I just have to spend the next month waiting for it to arrive.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice Nathan  It certainly looks complete and in damn good condition. Enjoy!


----------



## Lazyman

The only thing not there that I can tell from the pictures is a wood piece for the fence. Probably never had one.

I almost bought a Record 44 too that looks like it was never used but when the total got over $400, I decided that was probably not the best use of my wife's birthday present funds. It was really shiny though.


----------



## controlfreak

I probably paid too much but I finally snagged a Stanley 60 1/2 last night on ebay. Can't wait to see it. This will leave me looking for a Stanley Bailey No. 4 and even though I don't technically need it a Stanley Bailey no. 8 to round out my set. I am planning to pass on a no. 2 but that may change with time. Almost time to start the plane till.


----------



## Mosquito

I wouldn't complain at that price either Nathan. Over here the Records tend to go for a little more than over there, since we didn't get them and they did lol I've also bought 2 of my 3 043's from the UK as well, since they're more readily available over there, and no more expensive than buying one here (after shipping).

Kenny, I think I've got 2 left that are in the "If someone's looking" pile. But I say that, and it seems like every time I start rooting around I find another one I forgot about lol Not sure how many irons I have left though, I think full set wise it might just be the one I accidentally sent you the first time, with no notches for the older type planes


----------



## KentInOttawa

Nathan,

My experience with eBay's International Shipping Program may either frustrate you or make you feel better. I had one lot of planes stopped from shipping to Canada from the US (presumably because if the CITES regulations, although all that eBay ever said was that it contained a "prohibited item"). eBay basically cancelled the sale and refunded me 100%. Somehow, the seller got paid and the planes have not been seen or heard of since, to the best of my knowledge.

Ironically, the only 2 pieces of wood in the order were the knob and tote of a #4 Handyman (obviously NOT rosewood). Trying to talk common-sense with eBay is not something for the faint-of-heart to try. I gave up.

That said, I have had planes and squares come through with no problems. As always, YMMV. On the plus side, it didn't cost me any money, just time and aggravation.


----------



## Lazyman

How long ago was that Kent? CITES changed the rules on rosewood last year so theoretically, that should not be an issue for hand planes anymore according to that link I posted above but who knows if the Customs department got the memo.

I've tried having a conversation with eBay before which is why I used a credit card for any purchase I make through them. Paypal used to be even worse but of course eBays owns Paypal, or at least they used to anyway.

Somewhere there is probably a pile of hand planes, and rosewood plane handles and knobs that Customs agents have confiscated. Either that or all of these planes we see for sale on eBay are being sold by Customs agents.


----------



## DLK

What are the CITES rules on rosewood now?


----------



## Lazyman

As I interpret the rule in the link to the Australian customs website above. As long as the rosewood is less than 10 kg, it is exempt from the restriction.

Rosewood (Dalbergia and Guibourtia spp.)

From 26 November 2019, you will no longer need CITES permits to import or export the following items made from rosewood species (Dalbergia spp., or Guibourtia demeusei, Guibourtia pellegriniana, Guibourtia tessmannii) listed on Appendix II of CITES:

finished musical instruments, finished musical instrument parts and finished musical instruments accessories (see definitions below); *and
finished products to a maximum of 10kg of rosewood per shipment*._


----------



## DLK

So thats about a 4 by 12 by 12 inch block of rosewood. Maybe enough for 8 totes?


----------



## KentInOttawa

Nathan,

My adventure with eBay's International Shipping Program was well over a year ago. That notwithstanding, I understand that eBay has contracted out the operation of the International Shipping Program to Pitney-Bowes. Everything going through the program ships to a PB facility where they do the customs-related paperwork and then send it along to the buyer. I suspect that in my case, some minimum-wage puke heard that some planes had rosewood and knew of the existence of the CITES regulations, and just stopped the transaction. The seller gets paid and the buyer gets a refund. PB then resells any stopped sales within the origin country.


----------



## Lazyman

Crossing my fingers Kent. At the risk of jinxing this, here is the link to eBay posting if you want to see better pictures. If this goes wrong somehow, I am going to be really bummed.


----------



## KentInOttawa

You'll probably be okay, but if it goes sideways then I could understand you getting bummed about it.


----------



## controlfreak

Lazyman, If you pulled the trigger on this it looks like a keeper to me. With the added pictures all looks great. Only thing I can't see is the runners and how strait they are but in this condition I think they will be fine.


----------



## Mosquito

ControlFreak, have you ever run across one where the skates weren't straight, and the castings weren't broken/repaired? In my experience, anything that would have damaged the skates beyond just knicks, would likely have broken the casting


----------



## Lazyman

It was just too pretty not to pull the trigger, controlfreak. I got the Pitney Bowes tracking code so it is supposedly on its way. Expected delivery date is Aug. 10th. Hopefully that is a worst case.

When I told my wife how crazy the prices for 45s can be on eBay (and that she bought me a plane for my birthday), she went on the hunt on Facebook Marketplace. Bargain hunting is sort of her hobby. So far she has found a Stanley 45 "plain" which has some "cuters" with it for $170. Just a reminder that you have to be creative with the spelling when searching online and assume that even people that don't know how to spell want to sell their "plains and cuters".


----------



## Karda

is she going to buy it for you or was she trying to prove she can find things for less


----------



## theoldfart

Nathan, now you have to find the additional cutter set along with the four H&R's and the Nosing tool!

My set



















And with a little patience I can get both H&R's into the box!










I'll have to make a better case if I get the other two H&R's and the Nosing tool..


----------



## controlfreak

> ControlFreak, have you ever run across one where the skates weren t straight, and the castings weren t broken/repaired? In my experience, anything that would have damaged the skates beyond just knicks, would likely have broken the casting
> 
> - Mosquito


I don't even want to know what happens when it gets dropped but I must admit one of the first things I looked at on mine was the skates to see if they were straight an parallel. Now I need to build a box so it has a protected home.


----------



## Lazyman

> is she going to buy it for you or was she trying to prove she can find things for less
> 
> - Karda


I think she wants to buy it cheap and sell it for a profit on eBay.  She said, " you don't need two of them, right?". I told her that I would never say that.



> Nathan, now you have to find the additional cutter set along with the four H&R s and the Nosing tool!
> 
> - theoldfart


I've never noticed that evil side of you before. ;-) I was fat, dumb and happy before you pointed out there was more to acquire. I'm sure that the rarer parts will cost a couple of times more than the plane itself but now I will know to keep my eyes open, even though I currently doubt I will have much need for those extras.


----------



## Karda

good for her, you can be her best customer


----------



## theoldfart

"even though I currently doubt I will have much need for those extras"

I never said the word need. The operative term here is want! Most of us do not "need" all the tools we have. It's just that they are shiney and pretty and cool and …......

I will admit to having avoided the numbers 55, 444, 77, 72 1/2 and 46.


----------



## Mosquito

want a #55 or #46 Kev, I've got one of each 

I think I have 3 #55's, and I don't think I want to get in to the business of collecting those…


----------



## Lazyman

Well, I completely forgot that I put in the minimum bid for this Craftsman 45 thinking that at $55 + $16.45 shipping that I would not be the only bidder. Everyone must know something I don't because I won it. It only has the one iron currently mounted in it. Anyone see anything wrong based upon the pictures? I probably don't "need" another one of these so if someone here wants it for what I will pay for it, I could have it shipped directly to you.


----------



## Karda

I had that happen once, I paid much less for something than I should have, everything was fine just one of those things


----------



## bandit571

> Well, I completely forgot that I put in the minimum bid for this Craftsman 45 thinking that at $55 + $16.45 shipping that I would not be the only bidder. Everyone must know something I don t because I won it. It only has the one iron currently mounted in it. Anyone see anything wrong based upon the pictures? I probably don t "need" another one of these so if someone here wants it for what I will pay for it, I could have it shipped directly to you.
> 
> - Lazyman


Made by Sargent, instead of Stanley…....and, Sargent notched their irons differently than Stanley did.


----------



## HokieKen

This one's gonna need a lotta love!


----------



## bandit571

Well….at least they hadn't painted it purple


----------



## Karda

could be a worse color but the red is kinda ugly to. If it were mine I would strip the parts and leave rhe bed


----------



## Lazyman

> Made by Sargent, instead of Stanley…....and, Sargent notched their irons differently than Stanley did.
> 
> - bandit571


Ah. Thanks. Rookie mistake. Now I am on the hunt for some Sargent cutters or maybe some unnotched ones I can modify. I'll either try to sell it locally just to get what I paid for it or see if I can build a complete set without breaking the bank.

It looks like Sargent may have changed that at some point because I saw a Sargent 1080 on eBay that appears to have the same notch pattern as the Stanley.

BTW, what is the deal with MJDTOOLPARTS? It looks like they mostly just find tools and then part them out, even thought most of the parts look to be in excellent shape. I think that I have seen complete 45's out there broken down into a several dozen listings on eBay.


----------



## HokieKen

> ....
> BTW, what is the deal with MJDTOOLPARTS? It looks like they mostly just find tools and then part them out, even thought most of the parts look to be in excellent shape. I think that I have seen complete 45 s out there broken down into a several dozen listings on eBay.
> 
> - Lazyman


You answered your own question ;-) There are other sellers that do the same thing. Parting some of these tools out will yield a lot more of a return than selling them as a complete item. Of course, it takes longer to realize your profit and it's a lot more work too. But as you're about to learn, there are a metric buttload of folks out there looking for bits and baubles to complete planes.


----------



## Mosquito

Sargent eventually stopped making their own combination planes, and were just rebranded Stanley's. The differently notched irons (notch on the side like Stanley, and on the top), were stopped with that changeover. Stanley irons should still work in the older Sargent style, just not quite as well, since you'd have to use them with no notch engagement. You don't need the notches in the irons. The only thing you lose is the ability to retract the iron (can only push it with the thumb screw)

And like Kenny said, that's exactly what they do, and it makes more money. I've heard complaints from other dealers that some will go to swap meets and auctions and buy perfectly fine and complete examples, just to break them up and sell as parts


----------



## Karda

Is it possible to make you own irons out of good tool steel


----------



## Mosquito

absolutely. If I had a reliable means to cut, grind, and heat treat my own irons, I would likely have already done so


----------



## Lazyman

I might make a couple of cutters to complete a set or if I wanted a custom profile or width I suppose but I would rather get and clean up an old rusty set of them and cut a notch.


----------



## HokieKen

For specialty irons, molding profiles etc, making your own would probably make sense. And it makes sense to make your own for a plane like the 46 cause those skewed irons are hard to find and expensive. Plus, you probably only really need 2 or 3 sizes for that plane to cover all the bases. But, the basic irons for the 45, even at $10-15 a pop on ebay are still cost-effective by the time you buy tool steel, grind it out, harden it, temper it, grind it out again and put an edge on it. Lots of time involved…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

No. 9 3/4 (frankenplane currently; wrong cap and adjuster knob) and complete No. 15 1/2


----------



## HokieKen

Nice Smitty. I've always wanted one of the tailed block planes just to see if I like it. The prices they fetch are a little steep for experimenting though!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

They are very nice, Kenny. You need one, trust me.

;-)


----------



## controlfreak

My Stanley 60 1/2 is out for delivery, its like waiting on Christmas! If she doesn't complain it means its okay to buy another, right?

I am in the market for a good smoother. I could try for a Stanley Bailey pre-war but it will require some fidgeting to get tuned I suspect and will likely end up in the $100 range if it is a nice one. I could also get a LN for about $300 and should have minimal set up and have the ability to get different frog angles in the future if needed. Any thoughts from the experts here?


----------



## HokieKen

Vintage smoothers are the hardest to get fettled just so controlfreak. It usually boils down to getting a perfect mate between the iron and chipbreaker. But, there's also the matter of not having the option of a frog with a different pitch. If I were going to look at a new smoother, I'd also have a look at Veritas along with the LN.

Personally, I like vintage planes because I like putting the time and effort into dialing them in. However, that time is worth something and you have to factor that in for yourself. In addition, the thicker/stiffer blades in modern planes, the different pitch options and adjustable mouths are very tempting when it comes to smoothers and other than buying aftermarket blades, those things aren't even practical options on old planes.


----------



## HokieKen

> They are very nice, Kenny. You need one, trust me.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I'm happy to hear you say that Smitty! Which one are you sending me? ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Well, decades of dirt, grass, rust, grime and paint splatter are gone now!









But the enamel on the base hung on for dear life! I kinda hate to go at it hard enough to remove it when it's that solid (literally can't remove it with sandblaster) but there's enough missing that I'm not okay with leaving it as-is. Anybody had any luck with overspraying a finish that's already there?


----------



## bandit571

Three jack planes….








No. 11, No. 14, and No. 15…..









That "Purple Plane" almost rehabbed..









Cleaned parts..









And a proper colour for the base…









Seemed to work, well enough…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> They are very nice, Kenny. You need one, trust me.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop
> 
> I m happy to hear you say that Smitty! Which one are you sending me? ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


I'll get back to you on that lol


----------



## sansoo22

> My Stanley 60 1/2 is out for delivery, its like waiting on Christmas! If she doesn t complain it means its okay to buy another, right?
> 
> I am in the market for a good smoother. I could try for a Stanley Bailey pre-war but it will require some fidgeting to get tuned I suspect and will likely end up in the $100 range if it is a nice one. I could also get a LN for about $300 and should have minimal set up and have the ability to get different frog angles in the future if needed. Any thoughts from the experts here?
> 
> - controlfreak


You don't really need different frog angles. Putting a 20 deg back bevel on your iron effectively raises you to 65 deg angle of presentation. You might need a new thicker iron to achieve that but a pre war stanley plus a new iron is still half the cost of an LN.

If you're not opposed to corrugated bottoms PM me. I have a type 15 no 4C i just finished that was headed for ebay and could be had for under $100 ready to go to work.


----------



## HokieKen

Been a long time since I experimented but when I did try using a back bevel to change the angle of attack, I got horrible results. Several years later and looking back, I have to imagine it was due to the thinness of the iron in the vintage plane. It took me about an hour to give up, grind that edge off, flatten the back and grind a new bevel ;-)

Anybody use a back bevel to simiulate a york-pitch smoother with good results? I've seen it done to good effect with modern planes but don't ever recall seeing success with vintage ones.


----------



## sansoo22

I've had success with around a 10 deg back bevel on a Hock O1 iron. I have yet to try a thicker IBC or PM-V11 as I dont work with enough highly figured woods to worry about it.


----------



## Karda

i just watched a video Rob Cossman did, he used a 20 degree back bevel on some figured maple. That was on a bedrock style plane


----------



## sansoo22

> i just watched a video Rob Cossman did, he used a 20 degree back bevel on some figured maple. That was on a bedrock style plane
> 
> - Karda


He's featured his high angle setup before and where i got the idea to try it. He uses it on an IBC iron and breaker which are monstrously thick tho. I think the IBC iron is nearly as thick as a vintage stanley iron + breaker combined.


----------



## bandit571

One year, I came across a Dunlap by Espee planes…

The one with the maroon knob on the lever cap. Frog is set at 50 degrees, York Pitch









Planing the edge of some Cherry scrap









Although the bottom of the frog is flat, the seating for the frog is at a bevel….results in a 50 degree angle…


----------



## sansoo22

Type 8 no 3 with a sweetheart iron in it going back to work.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Beautiful!


----------



## sansoo22

> ^ Beautiful!
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Thanks Smitty. A fellow LJ member shipped that out to me to have restored for them. I hope they like it.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice Sansoo!

Was that Dunlap user-modified or made that way Bandit? I've wondered often about machining a plane to re-pitch the frog. But there's a lot that would have to happen. Probably better to just scratch build one


----------



## bandit571

It was made that way…..seat for the frog was milled at an angle, bottom of the frog was flat. bevel reached from the seat for the frog down to the mouth opening…..frog sat on the angled seats, and the "ramp" behind the mouth opening….Frog's underside was flat, not "steps" were made.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Whispiness attained.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm jealous of your rear end Smitty


----------



## theoldfart

Ah, the Plane whisperer and his legendary rear end!

Tell us more.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hey Kevin!

Kenny, I had the same fascination as you, re: squirrel tailed blocks. First one was a search, the second kinda found me (thankfully)! So between those two, and the No. 9 Cabinetmaker's plane that also features said tail, I consider the itch 'scratched'.


----------



## theoldfart

So Smitty and Ken, please esplain to me the mystery of a squirrel tail. Why is it desirable? What can it do or do better than a straight forward block?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's more the alure than the mystery, OF. Why the handle? I've not found the marketing schpeil yet.


----------



## HokieKen

It's desirable because I don't have one Kev ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Oh, so it's a spiritual thing then?


----------



## Karda

Its a religion common to collectors, you always need one more


----------



## controlfreak

Made some nice shavings with my new 60 1/2 last night. Very happy with it and may give it a tune up this weekend.


----------



## HokieKen

Planes are like boobs Kev. Everytime you see a different one, you want to play with it.

I'm definitely not a collector.


----------



## Mosquito

> He s featured his high angle setup before and where i got the idea to try it. He uses it on an IBC iron and breaker which are monstrously thick tho. I think the IBC iron is nearly as thick as a vintage stanley iron + breaker combined.
> 
> - sansoo22


Depends on which ones you get. The "Stanley Replacement" ones are thicker than Stanley blades for sure (and may not fit in all planes, with out filing the mouth). The "Rob Cosman" set is .140" thick, and requires filing the mouth no matter what, on a Stanley plane. Those are the same thickness as LN/Wood River (for which you can also buy replacement irons from IBC).

They also work in the Keen Kutter KK planes, with no modifications needed too


----------



## bandit571

Took the iron out a plane, today…









Edge needed refreshed….









1.25" wide….it was hollow ground, tried to flatten up the hollow. Bevel is a single 30 degree skew….and the wedge is shaped to match…









Sides of the plane are flat,,,









Corner right in front of the iron is rounded over a bit. 









Toe is higher than the rest of the sole….I guess so it starts a cut better…









Auburn No. 181…..1.25" wide Skewed Rebate Plane.









Despite the gap behind the edge,.....no chatter was heard..









It didn't care for that old knot, though…
No. too bad, for a $10 Barn Sale find?


----------



## HokieKen

I have a 2-3/8" Hock iron I've been debating the fate of. Maybe I'll try a back bevel on it in one of my #10s (4-1/2 size). Been debating how to set the second one up anyway.

While I'm thinking about it… I now have a Record 07 in excellent original condition with a Hock iron (for now at least) and a Clifton 2-piece chipbreaker. It'll go on eBay eventually but if anyone here wants it, I'd happily entertain cash or trade suggestions;-)


----------



## Lazyman

On the skewed rebate plane like that I cleaned up for a friend, the pointed corner of the iron had a bevel on the side of the iron as well, much like a the side bevels on a chisel. The friend had actually given it to me but when I cleaned off the grim I found what I think were a distant relative's initials stamped into it so I (reluctantly) decided that it should stay in the family. Makers mark on that plane was R.A. Parish Philadelphia who I happened to find a reference to here in an 1818 newspaper ad. I wish I had it back.


----------



## Johnny7

> It's more the alure than the mystery, OF. Why the handle? I've not found the marketing schpeil yet.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I vaguely remember being told years ago, that it was to allow two-handed operation, but I looked it up just to be sure. (from a 1914 Stanley catalog)


----------



## theoldfart

Thank you Johnny7, we now know that Smitty has a deep seated desire for security. 

It's on the web, it has to be true.


----------



## Johnny7

> Thank you Johnny7, we now know that Smitty has a deep seated desire for security.
> 
> - theoldfart


And in all fairness, who among is without such desire.

Perhaps the second handle can be seen as the equivalent of an automotive stability control system-one can still have an accident (plane droppage) but the likelihood is reduced.


----------



## theoldfart

And in all fairness, who among is without such desire.

None of us if we are honest about it.

I like having a two handed grip.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The iron handle enables the user to conveniently work the plane with both hands, if he so desires.

Very interesting, Thanks Johnny! That's the type of propaganda I've been looking for! Wonder if there was more mention / explanation in the 187x timeframe when they first came out? The handles were added to two of their dozens of block plane products; couldn't have been that widely profitable?


----------



## Lazyman

Anyone know what this is used for? I appears to have a curved base and was supposedly found in a cooper's shop.


----------



## theoldfart

Coach builders plow plane.

Edit, the cutter is too wide for a plow. I think the sellers description is accurate. It is a coach builder plane.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Coachmaker's plane, yep.


----------



## theoldfart

Nathan, i seriously doubt that you would find that plane in a coopers shop. Coopers planes of that variety would have a side perpendicular to the cutter and were wood for the most part.


----------



## donwilwol

There is of course the cool factor. It just seems like a good idea in theory. In practice is does make a block plane much more comfortable to use as a mini smoother. For a guy who does small models, fish rod builds and that kind of work, these are a no brainier.


----------



## thedude50

Hey, guys just wanted to let you know I am still alive despite the rumors of my demise.
I would like to know if any of you have ever seen a plane where you move the wood across the blade instead of moving the plane kinda like a jointer?


----------



## bandit571

Like a Cooper's Jointer plane?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> There is of course the cool factor. It just seems like a good idea in theory. In practice is does make a block plane much more comfortable to use as a mini smoother. For a guy who does small models, fish rod builds and that kind of work, these are a no brainier.
> 
> - Don W


All Sargents? Those are very nice, Don! And yes, it does make a block feel like a mini-smoother now that you say it. Need to try one on a board's face.


----------



## donwilwol

> All Sargents?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


the one in the back is an early Stanley with a brass user made handle.


----------



## donwilwol

> Hey, guys just wanted to let you know I am still alive despite the rumors of my demise.
> I would like to know if any of you have ever seen a plane where you move the wood across the blade instead of moving the plane kinda like a jointer?
> 
> - thedude50


A cooper's jointer


----------



## HokieKen

My favorite little fella cleaning up some rabbets. It's not all that often that my "rabbeting block plane" gets used for rabbets but he does it in fine fashion.


----------



## DLK

Don't you wish MF made a a companion MF 07 skewed to the left and so that you could remove the left side.


----------



## HokieKen

Very much Don! But, I can flip the board around. She does pretty good going against the grain.


----------



## DLK

Ken did you see my post screw driver of your dreams. Maybe you can/will answer my question.


----------



## ac0rn

Kenny, make up your mind. Is your rabbiting plane a he, or a she? :>)


----------



## HokieKen

It was a he when it was born Jeff. But when it's in my hand, it identifies as a she.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Smoothing with a squirrel tail.










It kinda works well, actually.


----------



## HokieKen

Now you're just showing off Smitty.


----------



## Mosquito

I kept eyeing the LV block that you could get the tote and toothing iron for, as I was thinking about using it prior to hammer veneering, but I think that one looks better Smitty lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'd love to have a toothing iron for it; that'd be pretty cool!

Kenny, just sharing what I know.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm just jealous Smitty. I can't even find one of those tailed boogers for sale. And I feel pretty sure I wouldn't buy it if I could at the prices they probably bring. I guess if I decide I want one bad enough, I'll be making it!


----------



## rad457

> Smoothing with a squirrel tail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It kinda works well, actually.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Hey when you flatten your workbench with a LN 102 let's talk


----------



## theoldfart

^


----------



## corelz125

The full set of Bedrocks for sale on eBay belong to anybody in here?


----------



## Mosquito

Not yet, but don't tell Smitty that there's a Tote sticker in the bunch…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I don't have a LN102. And, I've never actually flattened my benchtop…


----------



## Lazyman

Most of you guys probably follow Mos 45 thread but here is a picture of the Craftsman (Sargent) 45 that I accidentally bought. I put an edge the one cutter that came with it and gave it a try. 









- Lazyman


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice!


----------



## Mosquito

I've only flattened my bench twice, once when I first built it, and once maybe 4-5 years ago… It's quarter sawn, so it's not moved much


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> The full set of Bedrocks for sale on eBay belong to anybody in here?
> 
> - corelz125


 At $450 per plane? Wow. Or am I reading something wrong?


----------



## controlfreak

My stanley Bailey No 5 has a long time cracked tote. I see that ebay is showing a rosewood tote that say "fits 5,6,7,8". Does anyone know if all of these planes use the same size tote?


----------



## Mosquito

That was my thinking too, Smitty, but I don't know what market value is for a #602 or a #605-1/4, so wasn't sure if either of those drove a significant chunk of it. I thought it was a bit high, personally, as well. I suppose they expect you pay for the convenience of having them all at once?


----------



## HokieKen

It's only $250 shipping though. I'm seriously considering it. I will probably either buy that set of Bedrocks or kick myself in the nose. I can't decide which one I will regret less tomorrow morning.



> My stanley Bailey No 5 has a long time cracked tote. I see that ebay is showing a rosewood tote that say "fits 5,6,7,8". Does anyone know if all of these planes use the same size tote?
> 
> - controlfreak


I'm pretty sure they are. I know on modern LN and Veritas planes all planes from 5 up have the same tote.


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, beware of cheap shipping. Planes break!


----------



## HokieKen

That's fine Kev. For a measly $4500 I don't mind if one or two get busted up. ;-)


----------



## sansoo22

Well now I don't feel so bad about the Bedrock 605C i paid $150 for. Kind of feel like I got deal after seeing a whole set at $4500


----------



## DLK

Here is an Ohio squirrel tail low angle block plane (5 inch model) I restored in the before time shown smoothing some 50+ year old douglas fir.










It works, but is difficult to adjust.


----------



## HokieKen

Sometime back last year (maybe even longer…) I exchanged a few PMs with somebody about making them some screws for their 140 block plane. I have since cleaned out my PMs and can't recall who that was with. Would said person please shoot me a PM if they're still interested and still around this thread? 

And related, I have since said conversation, parted ways with my 140 (which was also missing the aforementioned screws) so I have no way to measure the thread. Best I can tell from googling, they are #10-28 threads. Does anyone have a 140 that they can measure the screws on to either confirm or deny this?


----------



## sansoo22

Got some new Hock irons for the scraper crew today.









I must say I really like using the 81 and the 112 but the 12 is kind of meh. I either need more practice with it or it needs to be sold to fund something else.


----------



## HokieKen

I'd take the factory blades for the 80 and the 12 off your hands for a fee bucks Sansoo. I like the #12 personally. You just have to think of it as a big #80 rather than a plane in terms of use. I usually pull it rather than push too.

A 112 is on my wish list but with the prices the vintage ones fetch, I imagine I'll go with a Veritas on that one.


----------



## sansoo22

Unfortunately Ken none of them came with the original irons. That's one reason I was able to afford both a 12 and 112. I'm pretty sure the 112 came with a scraper blade from an 82 and the 81 came with a bonus surprise in it. A Disston no 20 cabinet scraper.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Sometime back last year (maybe even longer…) I exchanged a few PMs with somebody about making them some screws for their 140 block plane. I have since cleaned out my PMs and can t recall who that was with. Would said person please shoot me a PM if they re still interested and still around this thread?
> 
> And related, I have since said conversation, parted ways with my 140 (which was also missing the aforementioned screws) so I have no way to measure the thread. Best I can tell from googling, they are #10-28 threads. Does anyone have a 140 that they can measure the screws on to either confirm or deny this?
> 
> - HokieKen


Kenny,

That would be me. On the plus side, I have one of those screws, so I can help with Pt 2 of your post.

#10-28 sounds reasonable. Here are some pics of the measurements that I could take. 28 TPI, .180 dia and 0.287 thread length. PLMK if you need other measurements. (FWIW, photos can't be included in a PM).


----------



## corelz125

That big price tag on the bedrocks I'm sure they will be sitting for a long long time. Anyone try a Kunz 112 compared to the Stanley 112? The regular 12's once in awhile you can get for a good price. Smitty do you have a 12 1/4 or 12 3/4?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"No" on both counts. I do have toothed iron for the No. 12 though. It was a nice find and was kinda stumbed upon.










No toothed cutter for this, however.


----------



## theoldfart

Ooooo, noice core box! Now use the wings!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

My semi circle aint that big!


----------



## HokieKen

Perfect Kent! Now If you want to measure the head diameter, I can make you one up to match that one 

Now that you remind me, I remember it was you. But for the life of me, I couldn't remember before!


----------



## KentInOttawa

Kenny,


----------



## donwilwol

i decided to do the math for some reason. I've got a few bedrocks i've been contemplating letting go. Here is the best guess I could come up with.


----------



## Lazyman

Probably about the same price as buying the individual parts on eBay and constructing them from scratch.

EDIT: Wow, I just looked at the listing and they aren't even in that impressive a condition. With that sort of premium, they should look like museum pieces or new old stock.


----------



## donwilwol

> Probably about the same price as buying the individual parts on eBay and constructing them from scratch.
> 
> EDIT: Wow, I just looked at the listing and they aren t even in that impressive a condition. With that sort of premium, they should look like museum pieces or new old stock.
> 
> - Lazyman


^And be all the same type!


----------



## HokieKen

> Probably about the same price as buying the individual parts on eBay and constructing them from scratch.
> 
> EDIT: Wow, I just looked at the listing and they aren t even in that impressive a condition. With that sort of premium, they should look like museum pieces or new old stock.
> 
> - Lazyman
> 
> *^And be all the same type!
> *
> 
> - Don W


That was my first thought too Don. I don't think you can charge a "set premium" when it's not a matched set!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

A $1,400 set premium. I guess the time spent collecting is worth something… and Don, if you have a nice No. 604 1/2 that's seeking a new home…


----------



## KentInOttawa

> *^And be all the same type!
> *
> 
> - Don W
> 
> That was my first thought too Don. I don t think you can charge a "set premium" when it s not a matched set!
> 
> - HokieKen


It's a harlequin set. :-D


----------



## sansoo22

I actually took the time to go look at the listing and I'm not sure why but I'm kind of offended by it. They aren't in great shape minus the 602 which may not even have the correct iron in it. The 606 looks like a toddler with a wire brush attacked the finish not to mention the iron looks like an E.A. Berg which is a nice iron but still knocks off some value.

I get a complete set of Bedrocks is awesome to have but they are asking a price for a complete set of matching types with 90% or better finishes and proper irons for their age and type.

If this set was broken up that is potentially 10 other collectors that could find that one missing plane to complete their set. I think that is what I find upsetting about a listing like this.

Or maybe its because I really want that 606 so I can do my magic and return it to like new condition and right all the wrongs that have been done to it.


----------



## Johnny7

Re: the underwhelming $4500 set of Bedrocks

I think many of these comments gloss over the fact that the listing is a "or Best Offer" listing.
This type of overinflated BIN price, accompanied by a "Make Offer" button is incredibly common.

The simplistic thinking seems to be that if I inflate the price, I will inevitably inflate the offers.
For all we know, this seller may be happy with a 2500 dollar offer.

Just my thoughts.


----------



## CL810

Good point Johnny7. You never get it if you don't ask for it.


----------



## WayneC

I follow this post every day in email. But the bedrocks made me want to comment. I have a full set of square side bedrocks. Wondering if I should under cut him by a dollar. lol


----------



## corelz125

I watched a few 602's this year and none came close to going for $800. I doubt he will take that much off the price for a best offer. I remember part of that story how you got that toothed iron Smitty.


----------



## sansoo22

I finally sold enough planes my PayPal balance could cover this Stanley 45. I don't think its ever been used. I know it's not an early type but I am excited to have it. I lost many many auctions to snipers before this popped up with a buy it now and so i pulled the trigger.









The only blemishes are a bit of rust on one shaft end and a little bit of oxidization on the wing nut.


----------



## RWE

Mos will id it for you, but that is a good one. It has the adjustable fence, which is very useful. You did well. Congratulations.


----------



## theoldfart

Nice grab Sansoo.


----------



## corelz125

That looks brand new.


----------



## Lazyman

I think that I saw that 45 out on eBay but it was a little too rich for my blood. I'm glad we kept it in the family.


----------



## sansoo22

> I think that I saw that 45 out on eBay but it was a little too rich for my blood. I m glad we kept it in the family.
> 
> - Lazyman


The seller had two of them. Both auctions with a buy it now. Everyone seemed to be fighting over the other one so I just clicked buy it now on this one.

You're right it was pretty steep but I've worked really hard restoring several planes to as near as new condition as I can achieve. This was my reward to myself for all the hard work I guess.


----------



## Lazyman

Oh, I hear ya. You gotta pick your moments to splurge and it sounds like you picked a great time. I think that I was probably watching the other one where they were bidding it up. I was tempted to click the buy it now a few times and put them all out of their misery.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Stanley S4 for shooting? In a pinch, why not?










Happy Friday!!

Hi Wayne!


----------



## HokieKen

I agree Smitty. You should always use that for shooting. And then you can sell me your #52


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nope. Get your own. ;-)

On another note, appropriate brass knob on the 9 3/4 thanks to ebay. Now for an excelsior lever cap.










This block is at the bench now and is a daily user.


----------



## HokieKen

I've been trying to get my own for a few years now Smitty. I've pretty much resolved myself to that being one of those "never gonna happen" things. Kinda like a Rogers Miter Planer.

And if you have one of those, do not post a picture. I have your address and I'm afraid the temptation would just be more than I could bear.


----------



## HokieKen

> "No" on both counts. I do have toothed iron for the No. 12 though. It was a nice find and was kinda stumbed upon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No toothed cutter for this, however.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Honestly. We have to ban Smitty. He has way too many cool planes. I knew this was a core-box plane. And a lot of the parts I design are castings so I'm very familiar with core boxes. But somehow never put 2 and 2 together before and realized the right angle with a pointed blade at the vertex actually planes a perfect semi-circle. So now I have ABSOLUTELY NO USE FOR THIS ABILITY but I also have alerts set up on Ebay.

And I actually do have use for a toothed blade but not enough use that there's a snowballs chance in hell of me paying Ebay prices for one.

So last week I got my MF 22 that rounded out my bench plane collection. Then earlier this week I finally broke down and decided a #46 plane was worth having for the skewed cutters so I sent Mos a chunka change for one of his spares. And I thought "well, that pretty well does it for planes I need." And now I'm looking at core box planes and toothed scraper blades.

Dang you Smitty!


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, i have to make some oak wheel bearings for a gondola car we just finished restoring. i am going to put Smitty's 57 to good use.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm, I better hide this one, then…









Before Smitty scarfs the cap….Type 2….


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny, i have to make some oak wheel bearings for a gondola car we just finished restoring. i am going to put Smitty s 57 to good use.
> 
> - theoldfart


How big are the bearings? I assume they'll be 2 piece. That sounds like a hoot!

If you were to get my address and Smitty's confused when you're ready to return his plane to him, I probably wouldn't complain…


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, they are one piece and go between the truck frame and the top of the wheel axle in the journal box. I'll put up a pic in a few moments.










BTW, screws get here today for the box in the pic. Just finished restoring the saw.


----------



## jmartel

Busted out the #8C for the first time in probably a good year or two yesterday. Still as sharp as can be.


----------



## HokieKen

That will be fun to make Kev!

Nice door Jplane.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nope, Kevin isn't sending it anywhere else but here when his use is over.  Of course, I gotta get it to him first. Right now in Covid Quarantine. No. 2 son tested positive on Monday, we (wife, daughter and No. 1 son) kicked him to isolation upstairs. Now No. 1 has low fever so another round of rapid tests tomorrow am. If he's now positive, our 14 days start over.

Bottom line? Wear masks, keep your distance, and avoid crowds of any size.

Bandit, where's the No. 9 type study?


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, stay home and hunker down. Build things. Make shavings. Cook sausages. Do whatever works for you.

Hope the boys will be ok.

Kenny, screws fit perfectly so thank you. One more mitre box done!


----------



## donwilwol

Good luck Smitty. Hope everyone stays healthy.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thanks fellas.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, be safe and healthy Smitty. Glad the screws fit Kev. It's always tricky making special threads for those old tools when you don't have the mating piece to check your dimensions.


----------



## corelz125

Smitty it ran through my family back in April. It affected each one of us a little different. The testing wasn't very fun.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

My fourth test tomorrow at 10am. *sigh*


----------



## theoldfart

Can you study for it?

You could pay someone else to take it for you. 

How long for the results?


----------



## bandit571

B&G for type study.

Good Luck, Smitty.










#414c, #4, Type 10….M-F No.11, type 2









Awaiting their turn..


----------



## Karda

what are B&G


----------



## bandit571

Patrick Leach's Blood & Gore….Hyperkitten


----------



## Karda

ok thanks, I thought it referred to a brand of plane


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

This is what I've looked at.

https://virginiatoolworks.com/tools/stanley-planes/date-your-block-plane-type-study/

About two hours for results, pretty slick.

All that's left of my original LC.


----------



## HokieKen

I like that type study too for block planes Smitty.


----------



## HokieKen

Y'all should just buy Millers Falls instead of Stanleys. There's only 3 basic types before the quality went to crap and they're easy to identify;-)


----------



## sansoo22

> Y'all should just buy Millers Falls instead of Stanleys. There's only 3 basic types before the quality went to crap and they're easy to identify;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


I had a very nice MF No 9 that I restored. It was a hell of a nice plane and then I sold it  Kind of wish I hadn't done that now. All the new JessEm and Milwaukee stuff would have looked really nice next to a full set of MF planes.


----------



## corelz125

Kevin wish I could of paid some one to go for me. Our results came back in a few days. They might get theirs sooner now. No B&Gs but there's V&B's.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ V&Bs are very nice planes. Not cast iron but steel for many. And bedrock frog design.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Someone say Millers Falls?


----------



## theoldfart

Replacement for the GP All Steel? Should be a lot lighter.


----------



## Mosquito

I've got a set of Type 11's (3-8, and fractionals), that I've been debating letting go. They've been on shelves for a year or so, as my main use has transitioned to my Keen Kutters. Maybe I can get half what that set of Bedrocks was listed for :^)

Smitty, hope it ends up being nothing serious for you guys. That's a bummer


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Four tested this am, no new cases. Small "yay"!


----------



## Karda

thats good to hear, lets hope it stays that way


----------



## bandit571

Sounds good!


----------



## HokieKen

Good news Smitty! About the testing at least. If that miter box is all the MF you have to show, we gotta get you some of the good stuff!


----------



## theoldfart

Good news Smitty


----------



## corelz125

That's good news, how is your son feeling?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

#2 is cleared this Thursday. He's feeling fine, 'ready to run a 5K.' Anticipated 8 weeks of immunity from this. The rest of us release on the 28th.

Thx everyone!

I had a MF jack plane once, and sold it to a fellow LJ.


----------



## HokieKen

Look what came to live in my shop with his older brother fortyfive


----------



## theoldfart

Hey, that's mine!


----------



## HokieKen

For the right price, it sure could be Kev ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

That was quick lol


----------



## theoldfart

Tuesday for me.


----------



## rad457

I have a M.F. #9 out there somewhere tryin to find it's new home, still south of the border so at least 2 more weeks
14 day self isolation and all? The #45 in the same situation as well.


----------



## Lazyman

I am not sure what is worse: thinking that the shipping from England for the Record 405 I bought was going to take 4+ weeks and not get here until 8/9 or knowing that it cleared customs over a week ago and arrived at the Pitney-Bowes facility 3 days ago that's about 10 miles from my house. They created the USPS label at least a week ago and the post office sends me daily status updates. They know where it is but they keep saying that they have not received it into their custody. It only took 3 days for the status to go from shipped to cleared customs, but they can't seem to figure out how to move it the last 10 miles. (muttering, grumble, grumble, grumble).


----------



## RWE

I thought that I would mention this for members here that don't follow Paul Sellers. He just put up a new lesson on the free site on how to make a replacement plane tote. I have always had a few extra totes in inventory. I make a point to buy what I consider as "junk" planes, or incomplete ones, just to get parts. However, I think I may try to make replacement totes now just for the fun of it.

This is a free site. He has a paid site. You will have to establish a login id and password.

Paul Sellers lesson on how to make a plane tote


----------



## Mosquito

I'd also be surprised if it didn't show up on his youtube channel in the near future too, that seems to happen a little while after they're posted in the free section of his Masterclasses site

Here's hoping it finds its way to you Nathan. I have an LCD screen that I've been waiting for that supposedly arrived in Utah a week ago, but hasn't made it in to the USPS system yet either


----------



## Lazyman

It's like the Grinch stopped Christmas from coming. USPS status just changed to say that it left the facility that is 10 miles away yesterday but that doesn't mean that USPS has received the item. PB website has been posting daily activity of "In Transit with Destination Carrier" for over a week now and showing all of the places it has visited along the way. I would not be surprised at all to find that it winds up 200 miles away for a day.

Contrasting this, I bought a piece of turquoise to use as inlay off eBay a couple of years ago from a guy in India. It showed up at my mailbox in 3 days, covered with Indian stamps all over the envelope. The 3×3" chunk costed me about $8 including shipping.


----------



## Mosquito

sometimes shipping is just funny that way lol I've had similar experiences


----------



## Karda

i have the same problem. My bandsaw blade has been in Rochester, NY since 7/11 and hasn't moved


----------



## bandit571

I think Smitty might know about this screwdriver…









9-1/2" overall length, square shaft









Handle has some well-worn fluting 









Haven't found any logo on it…..unlike another that was cleaned up, this morning..









Circled area: Disston..U.S.A., and something about Electro…

When did Disston make screwdrivers?


----------



## HokieKen

Interesting Bandit. Never seen a Disston screwdriver. I did see a Disston hatchet somewhere. I think maybe in the later years they expanded their product line?


----------



## Mosquito

or at least their name licensing


----------



## sansoo22

A trio of 5-1/4s I just finished up tonight. One to keep and two to toss on the sale pile.









From left to right we have type 13, type 15, and a type 19.









Here is a close up of the tote on the Type 15. I freaking love the color of this thing and keeping it over the earlier type 13 which I normally prefer.


----------



## Mosquito

Sansoo, can I send you a load of planes, and a small pile of cash and get back some keen kutters that look like that? Yowzah


----------



## HokieKen

You can send me some planes and a pile of cash Mos ;-)

Great work Sansoo!


----------



## corelz125

Switch totes then you get the type you like with the nice tote. He has his system down to a science getting them to look like that. Been pumping out a bunch lately.


----------



## Mosquito

lol Kenny, as long as the pile of cash you send me is bigger-enough first 

Though I only have two Millers Falls planes. One's a No. 9 I don't remember what I did with/where I put it, and the other is a 709, so I doubt you'd want any of my bench planes anyway


----------



## theoldfart

While I may have a few MF boxes, only one plane, my grandfathers 9 and a couple of blocks.


----------



## sansoo22

> Sansoo, can I send you a load of planes, and a small pile of cash and get back some keen kutters that look like that? Yowzah
> 
> - Mosquito


Thanks. I did restore a plane for a member here…but haven't heard back yet if they actually like it or not.



> Switch totes then you get the type you like with the nice tote. He has his system down to a science getting them to look like that. Been pumping out a bunch lately.
> 
> - corelz125


Unfortunately the 15 and 13 totes are ever so slightly different. The 13 is a little bit more slender and it would bug me if they aren't correct. And yes its pretty close to a science now. I wish all my users were using the same science but some were scientific experiments that didn't pan out. Altho I can reproduce a more "vintage" look to the handles if I want so not all experiments were a loss.


----------



## ac0rn

Sansoo, very nice.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> Though I only have two Millers Falls planes. One s a No. 9 I don t remember what I did with/where I put it, and the other is a 709…
> 
> - Mosquito


If the #9 happens to be type one (letters cast around the knob and model cast on the back) I'd be interested. And if the price was right, I'd be interested in the Buck Rogers. I've wanted one of those to play around with. Seems like it would make a good scrub if nothing else. Plus, they only made 2 sizes so if I like it, it wouldn't be hard to "complete" the collection ;-)



> While I may have a few MF boxes, only one plane, my grandfathers 9 and a couple of blocks.
> 
> - theoldfart


If you have MF blocks to dispose of, I may be interested Kev. I'm actively seeking a 56 Low Angle but would consider others too


----------



## Mosquito

lol I've had the 709 for about 8 years so far, and haven't really been all that tempted to get the jack lol Haven't wanted to sell it though either.

I'd have to find the No. 9, but I highly doubt it's that early.


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, let me look in the chest of surplus iron. Don't know off the top of my head.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> ... the chest of surplus iron.
> 
> - theoldfart


Let that sink in, just a little while.

OF is a Stud….


----------



## HokieKen

He's a stud for sure. But he's no collector!


----------



## HokieKen

> lol I ve had the 709 for about 8 years so far, and haven t really been all that tempted to get the jack lol *Haven t wanted to sell it though either*.
> 
> I d have to find the No. 9, but I highly doubt it s that early.
> 
> - Mosquito


Glad to hear that. I won't be tempted to buy it then ;-)

If the #9 is a type 1, do let me know though. I have been tempted to try to collect a full set of type ones. But, the main feature that led me to build an arsenal of MF planes to begin with is the ridges under the knob that prevent it from rotating. And they type ones didn't have those ridges :-(


----------



## bandit571

Food for thought..


----------



## controlfreak

> Food for thought..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bandit571


Can I come over for dinner?


----------



## bandit571

Forgot to mention…these were in use, today….









Two Sargents, a Stanley, and a Millers Falls….plus a small block plane…


----------



## Mosquito

I'll think I'll stick with my desserts lol

Kenny, I was serious when I said I have no idea where it is, so I'll have to give the shop the once over lol


----------



## HokieKen

I'm in absolutely no hurry Mos so don't go out of your way. If you stumble on it one day, you know where to find me.


----------



## Mosquito

Haven't found it yet, but I did find another pair of #45s lol


----------



## HokieKen

Good thing. I know you were about to run out of combination planes.

Either one got a spare fence? ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

Not that you'd want  One's a Type 9, other is a Type 7


----------



## HokieKen

Dang. Nope, that won't help me none…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"This lateral adjuster doesn't work with a damn!"


----------



## bandit571

^ "Ya think?"


----------



## Karda

how did that happen


----------



## HokieKen

You just need to cut the back off your blade Smitty. It'll be fine.


----------



## controlfreak

It was a horrific accident, a plane crash.


----------



## HokieKen

LOL. Reminds me of that woman who walked backwards into a prop plane when it was running. Disaster.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

One point awarded to ControlFreak!  Kenny gets an honorable mention for creative solutioning.


----------



## Karda

better get out your adjusting hammer


----------



## theoldfart

Kind of looks like a skunk with it's tail up.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Well, it is a Handyman, so….


----------



## bandit571

Well, I guess it is better than chopping the top of the tote down, to clear the lever being bent the other way…


----------



## donwilwol

you use that adjustment style to keep it from moving!


----------



## 33706

Was that plane a Lockheed Electra?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nope. Handyman.


----------



## Johnny7

> Was that plane a Lockheed Electra?
> 
> - poopiekat


Ouch! Too soon, PK.


----------



## bandit571

We have work to do…


























Estate Sale find this morning…









May wait on this, until after a $1 saw has been cleaned up..









We'll see….


----------



## bandit571

Cleaned the top of the iron….CRAFTSMAN

Made in U S A BL

Underneath the keyhole lever cap…is an 0 above a "1". Lever cap does have a metal spring under the lever's cam. Lever cap is exactly 2" wide. iron had sat so long clamped up (factory grind on the edge) it had taken on a curve, lengthwise….was easy enough to flatten out. Did not see any gap between the chipbreaker and the back of the iron.

Depth adjust wheel spins easy enough. Bolts for the frog have a rounded top. 
haven't torn the plane down all that much, yet….too many wood parts sitting on the bench. Wondering what colour they painted around the CRAFTSMAN logo on the lever cap….have seen red, blue, and gold before…


----------



## bandit571

Have taken the frog off the base…underside has a 409 stamp…seems to be a "made for Sears" by Sargent.

Bolts for the handles appear to be steel, not Brass. Wheel for the depth adjust is a large steel one, with 3 knurled lines, markings are straight, not angled. Have yet to find a crack, dent or break anywhere…

Yoke for the wheel is a 2 pc steel affair…not cast. More pictures when I can get them….IF anyone wants..


----------



## BlasterStumps

Found this No 4 around the corner at a garage sale. Also found a 6' digging bar. For the two it was $6. Got to the sale late in the afternoon. Most everything they had pictured in the ad on CL was already gone. Surprised this plane was still sitting on a table.

Looks to me like the plane was made in late 40's or early 50's. 
I got started cleaning it up. It looks like it has had a shelf life instead of a user life so far. Might just make a good user to keep on the bench.


----------



## donwilwol

That should tune up nice. I've yet to have a wards master disappoint.


----------



## Karda

I had a chance to get a wards master but passed it up, I wasn't sure of the quality of the plane. I had already bought one dud


----------



## bandit571

That Craftsman jack plane….
Parts is..parts..






















































At one time, the steel was blued on these..









What's with the dimple?









Will work on the handles, later….need to sharpen the iron, first..









Just a $15 Jack plane….


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here are a couple pics of the Wards Master No 4 all back together. Looks to me like basically a Stanley with subtle differences like lever cap and doesn't have "Bailey" on the nose. I didn't do anything to the sole of the plane except clean it with some steel wool and then run some candle wax on it. Seems really nice to plane with. I liked sharpening the blade, seemed like good steel.


----------



## sansoo22

^^^If you swapped the lever cap on that and told me it was a Stanley I'd probably believe you.

I just finished up a No 8 tonight to go with it's friends. It's the third plane in the pic.









From front to back we have type 10 #7, type 9 #7, type 9 #8, and type 12 #8.


----------



## ac0rn

Sansoo, you do nice work.


----------



## controlfreak

Those look like the No. 8 I don't have yet.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Picture….









Stanley No.4, Type 10


----------



## corelz125

Something about a #8 size plane i just have to have them. How was it cleaning up that #8 Sansoo took a lot longer than usual?


----------



## sansoo22

> Something about a #8 size plane i just have to have them. How was it cleaning up that #8 Sansoo took a lot longer than usual?
> 
> - corelz125


I dont think I will restore one again for awhile. If it has really good japanning left its not that bad. If you need to prep a 7 or 8 for paint and don't have a blast cabinet it takes forever.


----------



## HokieKen

I danced with my favorite gal last night 









So back a few (5?) years ago when I first started using hand planes, I read a lot about how to fettle and throughout experimenting with some Stanley planes back then, I came to the conclusion that having the frog set so the blade was supported by the back of the throat rather than setting it so the opening was tight was more important. So that's how I've always done it. I use a straight edge to set my frog so it aligns with the back of the throat.

But over the weekend, I pulled the iron out of this #10 and sharpened it and thought "hmmm, let me play with the frog position". So I did. I moved it up so the mouth is just wide enough for the iron to poke through. Well I'll be damned. It makes a difference! A positive one at that! Who knew? Well, okay, everyone knew but I was skeptical.

So the only thing I can think is that when I was fettling the old Stanleys is that I was taking too heavy a cut and the irons needed the support at the base to prevent chatter. For now, I think I'll leave all but my smoothers set as they are. But I'm shutting my mouth when it comes to smoothing.

Also, planing Mahogany is awesome. I could have whittled a 8/4 board down to nothing just because peeling it away was such a pleasure )


----------



## Mosquito

Sharp fixes a lot too, Kenny lol














































(This one is a little narrow than the last two, but still not super tight)


----------



## HokieKen

Oh, I'm a firm believer in sharp Mos  That little Oak smoother looks familiar… is that the one that lives with me or did you make yourself one too?


----------



## Mosquito

lol it is indeed yours, that's why I wanted to include it :-D


----------



## HokieKen

Thought so Mos  I'm pretty spoiled to my wide bodied smoother but when I got funk grain, that york pitch with the narrow iron is just what the Dr. ordered.

So my Jack plane and my pepper grinder have been fooling around and had a love child…









I got a kick out of the ebay listing. The description says "handle does not appear to be original". Yeah, that's a pretty safe assumption. )


----------



## Mosquito

lol nice. Maybe it's just REALLY excited to see that figured grain it's about to plane…


----------



## Karda

Jee ken that is nicer looking than my Millers Falls 418 with a piece of broom stick on the front. don't look good but it works and cheaper than 25.00 on ebay for a knob


----------



## bandit571

Ya think?


----------



## HokieKen

You have lathe, right Karda? Make a knob! 

That plane is definitely a boy huh Mos?


----------



## Karda

yea I have a lathe but the challenge is the nut, it is square sided, I would like a round nut that i can drill in but the post is and odd size. The post threads fit loose in the 7/32nds hole and don't quite fit the 13/64ths hole on my drill gauge


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Spotted a Stanley No. 7 in a salvage shop today. Busted frog, and rear tote is toast, but otherwise a clean mouth, no damage to the front knob or bed. I don't typically rehab planes for turning, but at $15 I'm thinking about it. Have to get an appropriate type frog. The frog bed and brass adjuster knob are the best clues as to type.


----------



## bandit571

I'd work on sharpening that Craftsman iron..but…









This mess is sitting on my bench…half afraid to even sneeze near it…let alone move it….

Maybe just strip the finish off the handles for now..









Supposed to have been made by Sargent for sears…


----------



## rad457

My M.F. #9 showed up, finally! The #5 somewhere on its way? Now if Kenny hadn't of stole the #07 and #10 from me maybe the stable would look a bit fuller








Time to figure out a new storage solution? Only enough room in the cabinet for the Krenov's and scrapers.


----------



## sansoo22

If you guys don't stop posting pics of these Miller Falls I'm blaming you when I end up with one or six of them. I don't have room for Stanley, Marsh, and Miller Falls planes.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…









Bottom shelf is for the 7s…both of them…then the 2 No. 6s…..


----------



## rad457

Didn't add the Stanley #7 to the Pic. as I really doubt it will ever be used, but then again did use the #6 for the first time in 4 years on boards that were being uncooperative

Sansoo, blame it all on Kenny, with all his braggin bout what a great plane they was and all Dang now I have 3 and a 4th on its way. Still want one of them 07!


----------



## HokieKen

Lookin' good Andre!

The only real reason to switch to MF is if you have problems with knobs twisting in use Sansoo. They're sexy as hell but that's just a bonus ;-)


----------



## DLK

> Lookin' good Andre!
> 
> The only real reason to switch to MF is if you have problems with knobs twisting in use Sansoo. They're sexy as hell but that's just a bonus ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Well that and they perform better.


----------



## HokieKen

They do for me Don ;-p


----------



## bandit571

An E. O. E. shop…









Sargent 414c Stanley No.4,T-10 Millers Falls No. 11,T-2


----------



## rad457

> Lookin' good Andre!
> 
> The only real reason to switch to MF is if you have problems with knobs twisting in use Sansoo. They're sexy as hell but that's just a bonus ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> Well that and they perform better.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Sometimes): funny how on some woods I may use 3 or 4 different planes, like on a Walnut burl that my Veritas Cabinet scraper Plane finally solved many problems. Just wish I could find one that helps with my stupidity?


----------



## HokieKen

> ... Just wish I could find one that helps with my stupidity?
> 
> - Andre


That's a MF #10 Andre. It'll also make you thinner and better-looking.


----------



## rad457

> ... Just wish I could find one that helps with my stupidity?
> 
> - Andre
> 
> That s a MF #10 Andre. It ll also make you thinner and better-looking.
> 
> - HokieKen


Well then guess maybe if I go to only 12yr old Scotch for a year and put the wife on another diet??? , thinner and better-looking ya say, that settles it But I thought that was the M.F. #07, the one you posted in your projects?


----------



## HokieKen

The 07 makes you healthier and happier Andre. Unfortunately, both will also make you poorer…


----------



## bandit571

Or…buy an Ohio Tool Co. 0-7, and claim it is your new No. 07…....will make you look the size of Frodo Baggins….


----------



## HokieKen

Andre, have you seen this Millers Falls Screw Plane-? ) I dunno what shipping looks like to Canada but if it's not a deal breaker, it's been listed for quite a while and has a Best Offer option so you might get a decent deal on it? Looks like it's complete and other than some surface rust appears to be in pretty good shape.


----------



## DLK

> Andre, have you seen this Millers Falls Screw Plane-? ) I dunno what shipping looks like to Canada but if it s not a deal breaker, it s been listed for quite a while and has a Best Offer option so you might get a decent deal on it? Looks like it s complete and other than some surface rust appears to be in pretty good shape.
> 
> - HokieKen


I just don't know what to say.


----------



## theoldfart

Where the hell do some of these sellers come up with these tool names?
After all aren't they knowledgeable purveyors of artisanal excellence? ;-)


----------



## rad457

> Andre, have you seen this Millers Falls Screw Plane-? ) I dunno what shipping looks like to Canada but if it s not a deal breaker, it s been listed for quite a while and has a Best Offer option so you might get a decent deal on it? Looks like it s complete and other than some surface rust appears to be in pretty good shape.
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks, looks okay never came up in any of my searchs? Shipping $22.00 US, not to bad, threw him an offer so who knows Sort of decided that the #10 not really needed since putting a PMV-11 iron into my #4 1/2 but if the right deal comes up? I need all the help possible to look even slightly better/thinner!


----------



## bandit571

Knob has been "refinished" 
Before..









And after….waiting on finish to dry…









Have wiped/spun on 2 coats of varnish after this photo was taken….


----------



## BrandonW

So, because I'm such a nice dude, I loaned a couple of my specialty planes to a new woodworker. It was at that moment that I realized I really should make a nice box for my Stanley 45. These plastic bins just aren't right.


----------



## theoldfart

Hey but they are waterproof and you know what's in the box.


----------



## HokieKen

The plastic bins are nicer than what my 45 and 46 live in…


----------



## Karda

a nice box would be nicer than plastic


----------



## HokieKen

Chris Vesper posted this on Instagram. I thought it may ring true for some of y'all.


----------



## bandit571

Just some 3/8" thick Poplar…









Got it built, yet?









Just a No. 9…...


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Chris Vesper posted this on Instagram. I thought it may ring true for some of y'all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


Yup. You should post that on Grumpy's joke of the day page.


----------



## rad457

Offer to good to refuse Someday soon a M.F.s #07 may arrive?
Managed to hide the #9 from the Wife but getting tougher all the time, #5 and the #07 plus another #45 showing up?


----------



## HokieKen

Good for you Andre!


----------



## sansoo22

Not exactly a plane but it goes with one and costs just about as much whenever you're lucky enough to win one.









Most of the nickel is still there just needs a bit of love from some small brass wheels and it will be shined up in no time.


----------



## theoldfart

Now you need the MF 88!


----------



## Karda

for thew plane challenged, what is it


----------



## sansoo22

> for thew plane challenged, what is it
> 
> - Karda


Its a fence that attaches to the side of a plane. Typically used on jointer sized planes like the #7 or #8

If anyone is interested in a Miller Falls version I did see one on etsy for $55. I don't know which version it is but it looks to be in pretty good condition.


----------



## Karda

ok thanks


----------



## Mosquito

I've got a Keen Kutter version, that I've actually yet to use lol


----------



## HokieKen

I've eyeballed the MF fence. But, I really can't imagine I'd ever actually use it. For $20 I'd probably take the leap anyway. But they don't sell for $20…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Had one, tried it, never really got the hang of it so there'd be a reason to use it vs. working on technique that gets me good edges with H&H. Sold it to a great new owner who takes good care of it. All is well.


----------



## sansoo22

I don't even know how much I will use it. I got the idea stuck in my head that I wanted one when I was new to working with planes and frustrated I couldn't joint well. Then it took forever to find one and even longer to get one. In the meantime I've gotten pretty darn good with the No 8 which was the one plane I wanted it for. Mainly for long 4/4 or 3/4 stock. The big ol 8 doesnt always balance so well.


----------



## bandit571

I think I have this sharp enough..


















Maybe?

Iron is for the Craftsman jack plane…









That I been rehabbing..test bed is a Sargent 414c…..the craftsman is a "BL" (Sargent") smooth sole 414…


----------



## RWE

Sansoo: In my case, I have had to learn to slow down. Coming from power tools to hand tools, you have to ratchet down a notch or two and just learn to be patient, use your 6 combo inch square a lot and develop some muscle memory.

I get "free" wood from a friend and after air drying it, I have to process it down to 4 square. The hand tool thing developed because of all of the issues in getting air dried stock ready to go through a power planer or a jointer. Handplanes, lots of camber on the irons became necessary.

After I got a board flat, it was jigs to carry it against a table saw fence to get a square edge. Got tired of that, and picked up a 608 for edge jointing. I favor the 8 size over the 7's and 6's.

Funny thing is that you can edge joint a board with a good plane just about as fast as setting it in a jig to cut it on the table saw and it is a lot less dangerous.

I still use the power planer to get the second side parallel, but I get the first side near flat with the hand planes. Sometimes I will use the power jointer, but with the jointer plane I can do longer boards easier on the bench in the vise.

Having said that, I would like to see how those fences work, just because. That is the madness that affects all of us.


----------



## theoldfart

RWE, the fence makes doing an edge other than 90 degrees easy. This is from my Dutch chest build. I wanted a stop to keep the lid from going back too far

Picked up the angle and set a bevel gauge









Transfer the angle to the fence and commence too making shavings


















Installed









This fence is from EC Stearns, same as a Miller Falls, I hadn't bought Smitty's Stanley yet.


----------



## corelz125

Kenny I expect you to have the miller falls 88 out of anyone here. The 386 when complete seem to go for a lot more than the 88.


----------



## HokieKen

Well, neither me, google or ebay know what the 386 is corelz. Want to educate me?


----------



## sansoo22

Stanley No 386 in action on a Type 12 No 8. Its just a crap piece of 2×6 fir I was practicing on. I must say so far I quite like it. Using it at 90 isn't showing off the usefulness as much as the pics above but it does take some of the brain power out of it. Full width shavings without any wobble after a few passes.


----------



## HokieKen

Ahhhh, no wonder I couldn't find a Millers Falls 386 )


----------



## ac0rn

Sansoo, Does the fence just clamp onto the plane shoulder? Or do you have to drill for screw attachment?


----------



## sansoo22

> Sansoo, Does the fence just clamp onto the plane shoulder? Or do you have to drill for screw attachment?
> 
> - Jeff


It just clamps on the side of it with a couple thumb screws. You can see them on the face just above the knob. Then the top thumb screws keep it tight and in place. The bottom lip of the fence actually sits under the plane body so its a very secure fit once its on and snugged up.


----------



## corelz125

Sorry for the confusing Kenny the Stanley jointer fence is numbered 386 and the Miller's Falls fence is #88.


----------



## DLK

> Funny thing is that you can edge joint a board with a good plane just about as fast as setting it in a jig to cut it on the table saw and it is a lot less dangerous.
> 
> Sometimes I will use the power jointer, but with the jointer plane I can do longer boards easier on the bench in the vise.
> 
> Having said that, I would like to see how those fences work, just because. That is the madness that affects all of us.
> 
> - RWE


I really enjoy using my stanley 8 for jointing and gave away my power jointer. I find jointing by hand easy to do. I also have an E.C. Stern fence, but I have never need to use it. I just use my bent left index finger as a fence gripping the toe with my thumb on top.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Sansoo & Kevin - thanks for the pictures. I wasn't aware that these fences would adjust to angles other than 90 degrees. FWIW There is a Veritas fence that screws into holes in Veritas planes, but it is only for those planes and only for 90 degrees.


----------



## theoldfart

kent, i don't use the fence for 90 degree edges only 1,2,3,4,5…..... you get the idea!


----------



## sansoo22

Finally found a good complete 192 to round out my set.


----------



## KentInOttawa

The Leach August Tool List is out. The first item in the Stanley section is a 386 jointing fence. How'd he know?


----------



## theoldfart

Look farther down the list for a Millers Falls 88 for less money!


----------



## controlfreak

I bought a Stanley 78 and was puzzled to find the depth stop attached to the front blade location and the rod on the left side. Did my research on Blood&Gore and can now see where the depth gauge goes and that the rod is for the skate or fence which is missing. I am looking around for a fence and may have a good candidate. My question is for you 78 users, do you use the fence much? I like to make things complete but if I never use it it is just money wasted on something to keep up with.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> My question is for you 78 users, do you use the fence much?
> 
> - controlfreak


I have 2 Stanley 78 variants (Record 778 & WS 078?) and I'm hard-pressed to remember a time when I used either one without a fence.


----------



## ac0rn

I too always use the fence on the 78.


----------



## controlfreak

I guess I should have known. I got to stop researching after I buy something instead of before.


----------



## sansoo22

> I guess I should have known. I got to stop researching after I buy something instead of before.
> 
> - controlfreak


Been there a time or three myself. It's easy to get excited at a price and pull the trigger only to find out it wasn't a great deal after all. I've learned to slow down and if I miss out I guess it just wasn't meant to be mine.

Also I use the fence on my 78 all the time. If I decide I don't want a fence well I have the 190 crew to pick from.


----------



## DanKrager

I have used the 78 without the factory fence, but that was because I used a block fence clamped to the work to assure that the plane was steadily "vertical" on each pass. With the factory fence and my weak wrists, it often happens that the "outer" edge sags a bit leaving an out of square rabbet.

So, don't fret about not having a fence to use. Keep looking, but in the meantime….

DanK


----------



## CL810

I have a Stanley 386 I am getting ready to put on ebay. If anyone is interested pm me.


----------



## bandit571

Someday, I will remove that tape..









But…that Stanley No. 4, Type 10 came home that way….even improves the grip…


----------



## sansoo22

For any Type 18 fans out there like myself. The handles on both of these were stripped and refinished. The japanning and the nickel is all original.


----------



## Karda

wow the are spit shined, do you use them. They look to pretty to use


----------



## sansoo22

> wow the are spit shined, do you use them. They look to pretty to use
> 
> - Karda


Those will most likely be headed to ebay to help fund…or i should say reimburse…buying some very expensive planes this year. However most of my users do look like that or close to it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Absolutely beautiful!


----------



## corelz125

Really knocking them out of the park lately. Getting a few done a week now.


----------



## sansoo22

> Absolutely beautiful!
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


 Thank you. That means a lot.



> Really knocking them out of the park lately. Getting a few done a week now.
> 
> - corelz125


Early this spring when the basement flooded and the stone around the garage shifted I was pretty bummed out when I got the $14,500 estimate to fix it all. That was pretty much my entire budget for a lot of things I wanted to do to the shop and in the shop.

Since then I've come to look at it as a blessing. Without the financial set back I wouldn't have had time to hone my restoration skills. Buying, restoring, and selling has also afforded me a few items like my #45 and #386. I'm not making any money, but I'm staying busy, I'm able to pick up a few rarer planes along the way, and most importantly I'm happy.


----------



## corelz125

If the ones you sell pay for the all the ones you keep I say your way ahead of the game. How have your sales been? They sell right away?


----------



## sansoo22

> If the ones you sell pay for the all the ones you keep I say your way ahead of the game. How have your sales been? They sell right away?
> 
> - corelz125


Its flaky. For a couple weeks I couldn't keep up. Had some interest off of a few I posted to Facebook which ballooned into almost all the 4s and 5s I had selling out. I think that was mainly folks picking up wood working as a hobby during lock down though because I haven't had any repeat inquiries after that.

Ebay I get plenty of views but rarely a quick sell. Can take a couple weeks. I have started asking a bit of a premium for them though so that has slowed down ebay. I'm not outrageously priced by any means. The 4 and 5 i just posted could be had for a little more than a brand new Wood River #5. I try to make sure anyone who needs a plane can get a quality vintage Stanley, that looks fantastic, is ready to last another lifetime, and is tuned and ready to work the day it arrives.


----------



## DLK

You can use a 78 without the fence as a shoulder plane.


----------



## AGolden

Recently got this Lie-Nielsen low angle jointer plane, it is my first premium hand plane but man was it a game changer. I have always wanted a big boi plane and this thing is amazing!


----------



## bandit571

The plane sitting on the box? Stanley No. 5-1/2, type 17….which gives you an idea of what is sitting in front of it….

Stanley No. 8, T-7…..Heft & Hubris itself….









Yes,and a Stanley No. 7, T-9, it does get out, now and then…original iron, no less…


----------



## ac0rn

AGolden, Nice table top. Did you make that?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thought about pulling together all the specially planes that have small knobs on them. A lot! And din't pull the No. 55 out of it's box…


----------



## corelz125

EBay likes taking their cut of the premium money also. Dirty rusty planes are getting more expensive now so why shouldn't you get top dollar.


----------



## sansoo22

Smitty - I'm jealous of those side rabbet planes. Been hunting for a set that looks that good. Technically I'm jealous of all of it but the side rabbets are on the short list of things I want.

Corelz - I agree 100%. I usually do buy it now with make an offer listings. I'm not sure why though. Most the offers I get are punishment to my self esteem.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice knobby picture Smitty

AGolden, I nearly bought a LN 7-1/2 when I got my 62 and 164 5 or 6 years ago, but opted not to since the one the guy had (I bought them off craigslist) was older and didn't have the adjustable mouth like yours does. I'm not sure if I regret that or not, given that they don't make them anymore.


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, I think the hotdog rules out the 9.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Whadya mean, rules it out? Rules what out? 

And I'm with Mos, diggin' the 7 1/2. I had one of those in my cart once…


----------



## Mosquito

In looking at their site last night, I also don't see the #2 listed anymore either. Wonder if they're going the way of Stanley, and only doing 3-8 in the near future.


----------



## controlfreak

I got busy and forgot to bid on a Stanley 78 for the fence. It ended up going for $41 which was more than I wanted anyway. I will keep looking. Has anyone tried the newly made replacements that I see on ebay? Also are there any other sites for me to check for a fence? I have the depth stop and the rod but not the fence.


----------



## bandit571

The usual…nhplaneparts?


----------



## Mosquito

CF, I think I've got at least one #78 fence, possibly two, in the parts bin, I can give it a check later today


----------



## DLK

> I got busy and forgot to bid on a Stanley 78 for the fence. It ended up going for $41 which was more than I wanted anyway. I will keep looking. Has anyone tried the newly made replacements that I see on ebay? Also are there any other sites for me to check for a fence? I have the depth stop and the rod but not the fence.
> 
> - controlfreak


I recently bought newly made spurs for the 78 from PowerToolReplacementParts. They do not fit. I hope with some filing I can make them fit. They are over sized.


----------



## controlfreak

> CF, I think I ve got at least one #78 fence, possibly two, in the parts bin, I can give it a check later today
> 
> - Mosquito


Outstanding!


----------



## controlfreak

> I got busy and forgot to bid on a Stanley 78 for the fence. It ended up going for $41 which was more than I wanted anyway. I will keep looking. Has anyone tried the newly made replacements that I see on ebay? Also are there any other sites for me to check for a fence? I have the depth stop and the rod but not the fence.
> 
> - controlfreak
> 
> I recently bought newly made spurs for the 78 from PowerToolReplacementParts. They do not fit. I hope with some filing I can make them fit. They are over sized.
> 
> - Combo Prof


That 78 that went for $41 had a spur too. I need to pay more attention


----------



## Mosquito

Yup, I've got two "in inventory", but no fence rods


----------



## 33706

> Yup, I ve got two "in inventory", but no fence rods
> 
> - Mosquito


Anyone who is in the market for a #78 should possibly consider a Record #778. It's just like a #78, but it has two fence rods! Much more accurate this way. Wish I'd bought one sooner, I got all these 78's and I don't use them much anymore. I like the #778. It's one of few Record tools that are superior to Stanleys, IMO.


----------



## bandit571

Just working with Ash, today…


----------



## HokieKen

I've eyeballed the MF 85s for years but it seems like the price triples if the fence and depth stops are present. And I have other planes to do the job.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Anyone who is in the market for a #78 should possibly consider a Record #778. It s just like a #78, but it has two fence rods! Much more accurate this way. Wish I d bought one sooner, I got all these 78 s and I don t use them much anymore. I like the #778. It s one of few Record tools that are superior to Stanleys, IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - poopiekat


The WS A78 also has 2 fence rods, but it has the same depth adjuster as the Stanleys.









I hated the depth adjuster so much on the A78 that I robbed the front knob from it for my Record 778. IMHO, that makes the 778 which is already a great choice even better.


----------



## corelz125

Mos I noticed that earlier this week also that they stopped listing the #2s but they still had the #1s listed. Servicenet was great for replacement parts. I bought a new fence and rod for a 78 for a good price. I guess what ever stock they had after it sold out that was the end.


----------



## 33706

*Kent:* Is that a Woden?


----------



## KentInOttawa

> *Kent:* Is that a Woden?
> 
> - poopiekat


No. It's an A78 from WS Tools, Birmingham. Apparently it's the first model of duplex rebate plane to have 2 arms (c. 1950). See here. On that page you'll see also the front knob attached to the forward position. I bought mine mostly to get a knob to copy for my Record 778.

On the same site, the history of WS Tools shows that the company was sold in 1952 and became the basis of Woden tools, making this plane the daddy of the Woden W78 and the granddaddy of the Record 778..


----------



## controlfreak

> Yup, I ve got two "in inventory", but no fence rods
> 
> - Mosquito


I have the fence rod oddly enough. Would you be willing to sell one of them?


----------



## DLK

*controlfreak* Paul Sellers writes in one of his responses to the comments to his article REBATE PLANE NO1-THE #78 FILLETSTER PLANE 

"Making one is simple enough and thickest of the Veritas card scraper has proven to be the same depth as the spur recess if you are looking for steel. Cut the 1/2″ strip off the end of the scraper and you have enough for 4 replacements. Drill the hole sized to the setscrew and countersink it. File out two corners leaving the width of the spur width and then cut the two opposite spur widths and remove the new spur from the corner. File the new spurs to a radius, bevel and hone."

But I think finding or getting a proper set screw will be problematic. The three set screws that came with over large spurs I got from PowerToolReplacementParts seemed to be O.K. Given what Paul writes I am confident that I can re-shape the over large spurs to fit properly. So not a complete loss on my purchase.


----------



## HokieKen

I, for one, won't be trying to make any of those 3 lobed spurs. I have a hard enough time trying to hone the damn things.


----------



## Mosquito

> I have the fence rod oddly enough. Would you be willing to sell one of them?
> 
> - controlfreak


100%, PM sent


----------



## sansoo22

The plane fairy just made a stop by the shop. A #45 gifted to me by a fellow LJ member because I like restoring planes so much. I've been wanting to get into nickel plating so this will be my plane to attempt that with. Start with the small thumb screws and knobs first.

Then a couple block planes I found on ebay. $55 buy it now with free shipping so why not. The 9-1/2 is blue but barely used. Still looks to have factory grind on the iron but dulled.

And the one i'm going to catch the most grief over is the Woodpecker's one time EZ Edge with all 4 cutters. Yes its not needed but I wanted it. I've spent more on dumber ideas.


----------



## Mosquito

That woodpecker plane is actually pretty nice. I don't own one, but I've had the opportunity to use one from a friend. Necessary, no, but no judgements from me. If I did a lot of that type of embellishment, I'd have one too.

On the nickel plating, if you get a good process down, and want to expand to helping others, that is something I've been interested in as well. Being able to redo the nickel on some parts would be nice


----------



## sansoo22

> On the nickel plating, if you get a good process down, and want to expand to helping others, that is something I ve been interested in as well. Being able to redo the nickel on some parts would be nice
> 
> - Mosquito


Plating and electrolysis rust removal are two big things I've been researching and gathering gear for. I'm going to start with small pieces in the wood shop but larger stuff might have to wait until i get the "plane hospital" in my basement finished. I have to get metal and buffer dust out of the wood shop soon. Hopefully with some small experiments now I will have a nice process defined when I get the plane hospital done.


----------



## controlfreak

"Plane Hospital" Oh God we are all sick…...but I love it. All is good unless you say "He's dead Jim"


----------



## bandit571

Wonder which will look better, on The English Patient?









Black Bakelight?
Or….









These wooden wonders…

Too much "Francken Plane"


----------



## Karda

I vote wood every time


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> Plating and electrolysis rust removal are two big things I ve been researching and gathering gear for.
> - sansoo22


*sansoo22* Not trying to discourage your plating efforts. but make sure you research proper waste disposal of plating chemicals by federal and local EPA rules? Hazardous waste disposal is not pretty, or inexpensive.

Have set up and run products through plating operations commercially, both small scale and large factories. Even set up aluminum anodize tank at home. Nothing can be dumped into city sewer lines without pre-treatment, except some rinse tanks between plating steps.

Strong acids/bases have to be neutralized before disposal to prevent damage to city piping systems. Requires you to test PH levels, add reagents, stir while monitoring temp to avoid melt down or fire from reaction gases, and properly venting the gases thru (water fall) air scrubbers. We used to spend more on base chemicals to neutralize the waste, than the etch/clean tanks cost to fill. Large operations have a separate building where tanks are pumped into disposal tanks as neutralization takes time to avoid over heating. Since etch tanks are removing metal, also have to measure the metal content with mass spectrometer, and make sure it is below local discharge limits into sewer. High levels of aqueous metals need to be chelated, and the dried solids disposed of in hazardous waste dump site. Which is more chemicals need to buy, just for waste disposal.

My local household Hazmat collection set up by city will not take any commercial hazmat residue(s), including contaminated heavy metals. Some small amounts can be placed in household landfill, but large amounts need to be in industrial landfill. Local Hazmat waste disposal company charges $600 per 55 gal drum of solvents they can burn, and $1500 drum for solid waste into proper landfill. 
If you think you can just dump the tanks out in back yard, think again. Last thing you want to do is add your place to list of EPA contaminated sites. Improper disposal of metal conversion wastes is second largest single contributor to that list, behind FRS (Flame Retardant Silicone) materials..

I know this post sounds like overkill for your 'plane hospital' operation, but if gubermint learns you are deriving income selling planes; and your waste disposal amounts are above the EPA household limits, you will be considered a commercial operation and required to follow big boy rules. The fines for non-compliance are expensive, $10K per violation last time one of my employers was fined.

Please don't shoot this messenger. 

Be safe, not sorry.


----------



## sansoo22

Thanks for the heads up Captain. The disposal and any relevant costs will be the determining factor if I can do this just for myself or branch out and do it "commercially". My state and city are pretty relaxed and household and especially farmer regulations. Although if you do get caught dumping illegally fines can be as much as $10k per day if the contamination is large enough to require abatement. So it's definitely not something to mess around with until you know all the legalities of it.

There are 3 places in my city or surrounding area that will take it. From my initial research its much cheaper if you can plate out the spent EN bath ahead of time. From what I can gather thus far a steel wool plate out is the most cost effective and easiest. If that is done properly it drops the bath from Table U toxic to Table F hazardous. (Don't quote me on that…that was an ugly document to read)


----------



## Mosquito

These are the reasons I haven't tried it myself lol


----------



## CaptainKlutz

*Sansoo22* 
If you are already understanding the hazmat classification tables, then my warning message probably was not needed. Glad to read you are trying to do it the eight way. 
Best Luck!


----------



## TedT2

This is my latest find. The first no. 8 that I have ever seen in the wild. I believe it is a type 15 has the sweetheart on the iron. I paid more the. I wanted but still got it pretty reasonable…I am a sucker for corrugated planes…


----------



## Lazyman

Do I remember reading that the Veritas Router plane blades work in the Stanley 71? Anyone tried them?


----------



## theoldfart

Yes they do, you may need to invert the threaded adjusting nut.


----------



## Mosquito

Yup, I confirm Kevin's validation. I use Veritas router blades in my Stanley 71


----------



## controlfreak

A fence for my Stanley 78 is on the way thanks to Mosquito.

Okay I should have taken a picture but when I was checking the rod to see if it was bent (it's not) I decided to move the depth stop from the screw that holds the blade in the bullnose position and attach it to the side. Anyone know what the thread count is for that thumb screw? Now that I think about it the thumb screw for the fence and the depth stop are likely the same so I can measure that. My 45 probably has the same too so I can use those to check.. I am hoping I can skew the blade on the 78 or the 45 to create the tail bottom reference on Rob Cosman's dovetail method.


----------



## Lazyman

Thanks. The edge of 1/2" blade as been a little mangled since I got it at an estate sale a few years ago so when I finally attempt to fix it I wanted to make sure I have options. It actually still works well in its mangled stated but it bugs me to look at it every time I use it.


----------



## Mosquito

the thumbscrew on the #78 fence appears to be smaller than any that I've seen on #45s. I can try to check Sunday, with my other #78 fence screw and see, if no one else has a chance to before then


----------



## AGolden

> AGolden, Nice table top. Did you make that?
> 
> - Jeff


Yis, that was the first woodworking project I ever did.


----------



## bandit571

Ok..Have a Ward's 78 ( Stanley made it)...stashed inside this case…









So, I guess I'll open it up..









And get the #78 out..









(white-out is because the shop light was doing a Photo Bombing) Full kit…









These are the parts being asked about? Only difference between the 2 bolts is in length, with the longer one having the "collar" and a washer…









But, it will fit the fence's screw hole…and the fence bolt will fit the depth stop's hole, but is too short. and can't use the washer. I tried a thumbscrew from my #45…too big, will not even start.
BTW: the threads on the rod…are also too big….
Not sure what threads Stanley used…


----------



## Mosquito

that is what my understanding of the question was as well Bandit, and my suspected answer as well


----------



## controlfreak

Thanks Bandit, I was trying to avoid carrying the 78 into lowes or depot to try various types. I used to keep a thread count guide but it always wanders off. I may need to try the jar of random machine screws to find a match. It is a big help to see that coller on the depth stop. It will give me an idea of what to use to fashion a similar deal. It looks like it may be a 8/32 just taking a wild guess at it.


----------



## HokieKen

My wife got me a Veritas LAJ for my birthday  Naturally, it's on backorder :-(


----------



## theoldfart

Nathan, the Lee Valley router cutters all fit the Millers Falls routers as well.


----------



## HokieKen

I use LV blades in my Stanley 71 router plane as well.

Working on getting my MF 22 into shape. It's like Christmas came early when the old film finish falls off of the Rosewood and it only takes 10 minutes to sand both pieces down to bare wood 









Naturally there was a big chip out of the cutting edge and the chipbreaker needed a lot of work to mate properly to make up for the cooperative wood…


----------



## HokieKen

Now if this damn paint would hurry and dry!!!!


----------



## DLK

Kenny, what brand and colour paint are you using? (both the black and red?)


----------



## HokieKen

Black is Duplicolor engine Enamel. Can't recall if it's gloss or semi gloss. I use them both and don't really prefer one or the other.

This red is Rustoleum Semi-gloss Protective Enamel. I usually use Duplicolor engine paint in red as well but I was out and used what I had. Any bright red suits me fine for MF. They used quite a few different shades over the years so I don't try to get an exact match.


----------



## DLK

O.k. thanks


----------



## HokieKen

This "family pic" has been a long time in the making  Unless I stumble on an affordable #5 or #24 in the future, this is the full till of MF bench planes. I looked back and I bought my first MF plane in 2015. So it's taken me 5 years to round all these up. I didn't pay more than $60 shipped for any one of them though so patience paid off. Ironically, I paid more for my #07 block plane than I did for any of the bench planes…










Right to left:
#8, #9, #10, #11, #14, #15, #18, #22


----------



## bandit571

Mine stops after the #15…..and never seem to afford a #10..so..I have a#8, #9, #11, #14, and a #15…


----------



## HokieKen

The #10 is my favorite Bandit  The #15 is about the biggest one that gets used regularly. The 18 comes out occasionally on large boards but usually the 15 gets the job done. I rarely use the #7 I have now so I don't expect the #22 to see a ton of action either.


----------



## rad457

*The #10 is my favorite Bandit * Was that the one you sytole from me?  I was looking a little closer at the Pic's of #07 you found for me and was a little concerned about the pitting on the iron, bought a NOS replacement for almost as much as the plane after shipping but still half the price of the one from mjdtoolparts
Still waiting for it to show up plus a #5 block(NOS + box) that I put a low bid on and that the shipping cost more than the item.


----------



## DLK

My MF family:










From left to right numbers: 22, 15, 14c (with hock iron), 10, 9, 8

Hiding in the back is a Craftsman made by Miller Falls (size 9).

The 14c is the first plane I ever restored and is what got me hooked. Cost me $15.

I have been trying to buy an 18 but no luck so far.

The only ones that are tuned up properly are the 14c, 10 and 8. I did work on the 22 and it is almost good.

I use the 10 all the time and lately I have been using the 14c. I had forgotten I dialed in the 8 and its really quite nice, so I may put her to use.

Looks like i have some work to do to make them as pretty as yours, Kenny.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice gang Don! I'd say yours look pretty good. I do like to paint my lever caps, it gives a little extra "pop"


----------



## RWE

RWE, the fence makes doing an edge other than 90 degrees easy. This is from my Dutch chest build. I wanted a stop to keep the lid from going back too far

*OldFart:* Did not get to reply to the post about the plane fence, several pages back in the thread. Life and a major stomach virus took me away for a week or so. Lots of posts here lately.

Many thanks for the pictures. I am not a collector and despite about 30 handsaws and 25 planes I keep telling myself that. Lately myself has been listening. So I really thank you for a fine new target to focus my attention on. I now officially begin the hunt for a jointer fence. Anyone out there have one they will part with, PM me.

One question? I have mostly Stanleys. Will a typical fence adapt to a #6, #7, or #8 (608 in my case) size? In the pictures above, does the 8 in 386 mean that it is targeted toward a #8, so I might find a 376 for #7 etc. Guess I should check Blood and Gore on that.


----------



## HokieKen

If you aren't specifically looking for a vintage fence, Veritas makes a Universal Variable Angle Fence for bench planes that's reasonably priced. Especially considering what vintage ones bring on ebay…


----------



## bandit571

There was a type of the Millers Falls lever caps…that they did not paint the red…...Hmmmm. I paint them anyway….

There is a Duplicolor Paint Pen…Cardinal Red….that I use for my lever caps…..very close match, no overspray to clean off.

Nor were all MF frogs red…..they did use black for a space in time….


----------



## RWE

Thanks Hokie. As it turns out, I found an E. C. Stearns for $36 and free shipping, just minutes after my post. I just Googled Jointer Plane Fence and found multiple listings, most of which were marked sold 2 or 3 years ago, then voila, a listing that was current. Never got around to Ebay.

I have a Stearns saw vise and have always liked it. If I like the fence, why not hunt for a 386 or some other model. After all, I am not a collector.

The wife has me building some kitchen cabinets. I am thinking of doing a French Cleat to hang them. Now one could use a table saw, but the best way might be to use one of those plane fences to get a 45, don't you think.


----------



## HokieKen

> There was a type of the Millers Falls lever caps…that they did not paint the red…...Hmmmm. I paint them anyway….
> 
> There is a Duplicolor Paint Pen…Cardinal Red….that I use for my lever caps…..very close match, no overspray to clean off.
> 
> Nor were all MF frogs red…..they did use black for a space in time….
> 
> - bandit571


Types 4 and 5 had black frogs. And apparently some type 3s and all type 5s did not have the area behind the letters painted red. I know I have at least one type 2 that didn't have the red paint on the lever cap though. Of course it could easily have been a cap from a type 3 plane. I currently have a #10 and a #14 in the to-be-repaired pile both type 3s. The #10 has no paint on the lever cap and the #14 has paint on it.

Other than the planes that I have, all of that ^ is based on the type study at oldtoolheaven.

And I'm like Bandit, even if they come with no paint on the lever cap, they have it when I get done with them ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

RWE, the Stearns and the MillersFalls will go down to a 5.

The fence is ideal for consistent angles lower than 45. Haven't tried any bigger than 45.


----------



## RWE

Thanks, got shipping confirmation, so I will be testing it soon. My benchtop power jointer died this week. I think it is just bearings on the cutterhead, which I have ordered. My go full on "Paul Sellers" and just use the handplanes anyway. So the fence may become very important. Not inclined to spring for another power jointer.


----------



## theoldfart

I sold my tailed jointer when we moved to NorCal a few years ago. Haven't replaced it yet. That may change since I'm doing a greater volume of dimensioning for the RailRoad museum.


----------



## Mosquito

That's been a few years already Kevin? Sheesh lol

Maybe what you need is one of those old porta-planes


----------



## bigblockyeti

I have a couple of those and while they're a little bit of a one trick pony, they do that trick very well and very quickly!


----------



## Lazyman

Trying to figure out why someone would grind se off the nose of the lever cap plane. I bought this cheap several years ago when I knew nothing about hand planes ( now it's next to nothing) and didn't notice the alteration. 









With a quick sharpening and a little fiddling, it actually works okay. I think I'm going to convert it to a scrub plane but before I commit a heinous crime against hand tools, anyone see any reason not to? Only markings are made in USA.


----------



## HokieKen

May not be a great choice for a scrub Nathan. Heavy cuts need a rigid blade. With the lever cap shorted, you may get a ton of chatter from the blade.


----------



## bandit571

I happen to have a lever cap you can have, IF you want it…same keyhole style…just mine is "all there"

usually a 6-8" radius on the edge ( camber) will do for most Jack plane work.









and..









At one time, this was painted black..as in a Mohawk-Shelburne colors….sine it was painted, Millers Falls never ground them smooth and polished…


----------



## DLK

*Lazyman* that lever cap was probably dropped onto concrete and it broke. It was then ground straight so that it would provide even pressure to the blade. It could be worse. Here is one I bought for $2 in which a new piece was screwed
on to repair the levercap.


----------



## Karda

hey if its works


----------



## controlfreak

Okay I have tried 10-32 and 10-24 but both will start to thread but abruptly stop. I have expired lowes depth of thumb screws. Any idea what is in between these two?


----------



## bandit571

10-28…or, just re-thread it to what you have…


----------



## HokieKen

10-28. Welcome to vintage tools!


----------



## HokieKen

What's that thumbscrew for CF?


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Okay I have tried 10-32 and 10-24 but both will start to thread but abruptly stop. I have expired lowes depth of thumb screws. Any idea what is in between these two?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - controlfreak


#12-28? Standard thread sizes


----------



## Lazyman

Thanks guys. I wondered about the relative thinness of the iron and the shortness of the cap causing chatter while scrubbing. I have actually used it successfully to do some light scrubbing on some pine when I was seeing how well it works after quickly sharpening it. I have another jack that came to me fairly well tuned and I managed to improve upon its performance without making it worse first so I was thinking that this one might be a good one to experiment with as long as it is not some rare gem.  I may just grind a 6 or 8" radius on it and see what it'll do. If nothing else, I can always bolt some extra steel to it to calm down the chatter.  If that doesn't work, I may take Bandit up on his offer for the replacement cap lever, though I am not sure that this one is even worth the postage.


----------



## bandit571

Just need an address…

Right after Millers Falls came out with their red frogged planes (1929) Stanley decided to paint their frog orange….for some strange reason…

Some Stanley Victor planes in the 50s, used a RED frog, and a RED chipbreaker….Which Sears seemed to like…which led to planes made for Sears being a red lever cap, red frog ugly sort of thing….with a black stenciled SEARS across the lever cap's face….


----------



## controlfreak

> What's that thumbscrew for CF?
> 
> - HokieKen


It is from the fence for my Stanley 78 and fits the hole for the depth stop perfectly. Need one that a bit longer so it can cover the 1/4" thickness of the stop and a washer or collar. I put a nice edge on the Iron last night.

I am having trouble searching for 10-28. Is there another way to search like 1/4-20?


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Okay I have tried 10-32 and 10-24 but both will start to thread but abruptly stop. I have expired lowes depth of thumb screws. Any idea what is in between these two?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - controlfreak
> 
> #12-28? Standard thread sizes
> 
> - Kent





> I am having trouble searching for 10-28. Is there another way to search like 1/4-20?


#10-28 is a non-standard size and probably explains a lack of results.
A #12-28 is a whopping 0.0260 inches larger diameter, so your smaller #10s will fit in the hole. FWIW, your photo makes it seem to me that your existing thumbscrew is a bit bigger than the 2 #10s with it. The #12-28 is one of the "standard" sizes. Looking for that should give better results.


----------



## HokieKen

If you can find a 12-28 thumb screw, like Kent said, you can just chase the threads in the plane with a 12-28 tap and be good to go. Unfortunately, while 12-28 threads are more common than 10-28, I wouldn't hold my breath on finding a thumb screw.

I recently turned some 10-28 brass screws for a vintage miter box for a fellow LJ. Worst-case scenario, I could turn you one from some larger stock and leave material for the head that you could grind to shape. But, that probably wouldn't save you much $ over just buying one off Ebay.

I don't know how much more length you need but maybe you can grind some off the bottom of the thumb part of the screw you have? Or grind a little clearance on the plane?


----------



## DLK

I bought these 1/4-20's










from antiquesmugglers and cut new threads with a 12-28 die. (I may have chased the old threads with the tap too.) I see he has some that are 3/4" long, which you could cut down. If you don't have a 12-28 tap and die set you can find them with a ebay search or I can sell you one 1/4-20 1/2" thumbscrew for my cost plus shipping, but I think it will be cheaper to buy them from antiquesmugglers directly if you have a 12-28 die. If your in this business long enough you'll want the 12-28 tap and die anyway. You need the shoulder for the depth stop but not the fence. There should be no washer.

There may be other 1/4-20 shouldered thumb screw dealers too. The shoulder was the problem for me. Took a while to find something that would work. I never did find wing and shouldered thumb screws that were acceptable.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm..have a spare thumbscrew that does fit the #78…with the shoulder…you'd have to supply your own washer, though….I just went to the shop and tried it out, just now. fits both the fence and the depth stop holes.


----------



## HokieKen

Dang Bandit. Is there anything you don't have? )


----------



## controlfreak

> Hmmm..have a spare thumbscrew that does fit the #78…with the shoulder…you d have to supply your own washer, though….I just went to the shop and tried it out, just now. fits both the fence and the depth stop holes.
> 
> - bandit571


Can you tape it to the saw if the USPS ever decides to cooperate?

I did find a seller on ebay that has ten of these. 
https://www.ebay.com/contact/sendmsg?itemid=203067206355&recipient=dennisotool22&messagetype_id=16

I have sent a message asking about the length to see if the 1/4 thickness of the depth stop + whatever washer I use. Maybe I should get some extras if I go this route. I haven't checked to see if non thumb regular screws exist in the 10-28 variety. If I can't get enough torque to firmly hold the stop I may end up needing this anyway. For some strange reason I want to avoid re tapping the hole if I can avoid it.


----------



## bandit571

In a baggie, with a washer…and added to the box…


----------



## controlfreak

I am not very good at spotting missing parts but I sure have some great friends here! Thanks Bandit!


----------



## rad457

My Monster #5 showed up! Threw an edge on the iron, gave the base quick check for flat then spent a hour tryin to make some fine shavings Cute little buggar will look good on the shelf.


----------



## Karda

what brand plane, is it MF


----------



## rad457

> what brand plane, is it MF
> 
> - Karda


Yup, getting a few of them Red boxes on the shelf now no box with the # 07 that is on it's way


----------



## Karda

OK


----------



## HokieKen

Don't feel bad Andre. I have a till full of Millers Falls and I don't have a single box for any of them. I like it that way. Nowhere to store tools let alone boxes!


----------



## controlfreak

I feel like a good box just adds to the price sometimes. I also want to see and use mine so boxes just get in the way. If I had a huge shop I could have a shelf of boxes but I have neither.


----------



## rad457

> Don t feel bad Andre. I have a till full of Millers Falls and I don t have a single box for any of them. I like it that way. Nowhere to store tools let alone boxes!
> 
> - HokieKen


LOL! Have been teasing the Grangirls, telling them that all these tools(c/w boxes will be their Inheritance!) 
One of them smiles? Started planning out some sort of new Til but having a hard time find a place to put it.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…
.





















































Vs…


----------



## bandit571

While doing a little "Show & Tell" at another site….dug out this old block plane..









Seems to be a 9-1/2 style of plane?









Everything seems to work..









Smudge on the sole is candle wax…makes it go faster…









And keep up with the No. 60-1/2 from Stanley…









Marsh?


----------



## bandit571

Ok, been almost a year since this "Thing" had seen any shavings…









Used last time as merely a scrub plane…was doing way too much tear-out….been sitting on a shelf until today…

clogged right up, working on Pine…









Not just here…but..









All the way back under the screw adjuster…no wonder it was hard to adjust for depth..

May try to sharpen the factory edge back up….rust spots are just finger prints. But, WHY would all them shaving be going under the iron, let along the TIGHT cap iron?

Just going back to the 25 degree bevel it came with…..not going to fool around with other grinds/angles on top of angles….one simple angle, just like the rest of my Block planes use.

Then back up onto the shelf in the till…


----------



## HokieKen

Wow, that's strange Bandit. I'd be curious about what's causing that too. If you ever figure it out…


----------



## BlasterStumps

I broke out…went vintage shopping for a few minutes today. $30 got me these things:










Could only spend a few minutes in the shop but need to go back. Only scratched the surface so-to-speak.

The small block is a Stanley 102 I believe. Good shape. The 12 will take some cleaning.


----------



## rad457

Sounds like bad edge on cap, rough edge/wrong angle of contact?
I almost always flatten the plane bottoms on some 220 grit then some praffin, really no effort required, shavings just magically appear from the planes throat


----------



## theoldfart

Blaster, good haul. I like the mini anvil.


----------



## HokieKen

Great score Blaster! My #12 is a regular user. That alone was well worth the $30


----------



## BlasterStumps

I hope the little tag on the anvil is correct in that it says it is a steel anvil. Might work for smithing saw blades if I can clean it up and dress the top flat.

Some of the little block planes I have have a fairly wide mouth but this little 102 has a very narrow mouth opening. Should be interesting to see if I can make a user out of it.


----------



## corelz125

Blaster did you go in there with a ski mask on? All of that stuff for $30 is a steal.


----------



## BlasterStumps

After getting the 102 block plane cleaned up and sharpened, I think it will make a great little plane for chamfering or rounding.

The anvil is cast iron. Kind of thought it was. Oh well, will still work for what use I have for it. There is a 255 lb anvil just outside my workshop should I really need to pound on something.

Started cleaning the 12. After looking it over, I'm thinking it might just come in handy at times. Never had or used one before.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I did have a mask on actually. I think the lady was a little generous.


----------



## bandit571

On Ebay…there is a Fulton No. BB 3708 up for bid…..it was made for Sears by Millers Falls, and is the same size as a No. 7….....Seller is oostingn…...might be worth a look?


----------



## Lazyman

This may be the coolest cutter box I've seen. It is for a set of Stanley 46 cutters. Here is the ebay listing.


----------



## HokieKen

I have those 46 blades on mu watch list Nathan. It's already bid out of my range though…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

For andy, some more cherry.










And more cherry, plus walnut and a tree of cedar.










I think that's all of it.


----------



## Mosquito

> I have those 46 blades on mu watch list Nathan. It's already bid out of my range though…
> 
> - HokieKen


That is a pretty sweet cutter box, though not sure on the practicality of space compared to a "normal" cutter box

and I haven't forgotten the measurements on the tongue cutter…. just, never remember when I'm in the shop lol

Smitty's got quite the stash goin' on over there


----------



## HokieKen

No rush at all Mos'. I'll just be happy to get a couple of the regular blades made :-/


----------



## BlasterStumps

Question for those of you with the No 12 scrapers, do any of you shape the cutting edge with a slight radius [sic]? The blade in this one that I just found has a "slight radius". I decided to leave it that way and put a new burr on it. It works but not so sure it is what I should be going for.


----------



## HokieKen

I have the edges on my #12 blade straight across. I could see breaking the corners to prevent leaving tracks but it's never really been an issue for me.

To shape it with a full camber would mimic how you hold a card scraper and present only a section of the full length. If I need to do that to deal with a section of crotch grain or an area around a knot or something, I usually put the 12 away and grab the #80 or a card.

Maybe sharpen one edge with a camber and the other straight across and just see what works best for ya?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Kenny. I know it is much more difficult to get the edge done up properly with the curve. I think I will flatten the cutting edge and do it as I would a card scraper.


----------



## sansoo22

> Maybe sharpen one edge with a camber and the other straight across and just see what works best for ya?
> 
> - HokieKen


This is how the original iron in my #12 was setup when I got it. It wasn't the original iron though and seemed pretty soft so I swapped it for a Hock that i left straight across on the cutting edge.


----------



## donwilwol

unless you plan to make chair seats or something like that, i think the scraper blade should be straight. Similar to a cabinet scraper; you form the contour to the wood.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Don. That will be how I make the edge when I get some time to fiddle with it.

I cleaned up the late model No 12. It's some better. At least the parts move easy now.


----------



## BlasterStumps

In between times spent working on the 12, I cleaned up the little anvil that I got with the scraper the other day. Weighs all of 14 lbs.


----------



## CFrye

Nice! Did you repaint the anvil?


----------



## BlasterStumps

sansoo, I will probably only work the one edge because the blade is already kind of short. Not much left of it. Otherwise, that is not a bad idea. Possibly one day, I will run onto another longer blade.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Hi Candy, Happy belated Birthday. Yes, I did paint it. Now it matches the little vise that I redid sometime back.












> Nice! Did you repaint the anvil?
> 
> - CFrye


----------



## sansoo22

I need..or want..same diff…a tiny anvil like that for the one or two times a year I break out my leather working tools. I also really like that paint color. It just says nostalgia when i look at it.


----------



## BlasterStumps

The paint is Rust-oleum Hammered Verde Green.


----------



## sansoo22

It might be time to downsize. Can't come up with a reason to own 6 jack planes other than I like them.


----------



## donwilwol

> It might be time to downsize. Can t come up with a reason to own 6 jack planes other than I like them.
> 
> - sansoo22


I agree! Better buy one more so you don't have 6!


----------



## donwilwol

Dup deleted


----------



## sansoo22

> I agree! Better buy one more so you don t have 6!
> 
> - Don W


I like your logic Don. The number 7 is a lucky number. Time to go shopping tomorrow I guess.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice line-up of jack planes sansoo.

I think I have more than 6 so I'm okay for now. : )


----------



## HokieKen

You only need 5 jacks. You'll need 6 foreplanes and 7 jointers though. Luckily only 3 or 4 smoothers. There's a logic to the numbering convention ;-)


----------



## sansoo22

It seems I've been doing this backwards. I have 7 or 8 smoothers but only 3 fore planes and 4 jointers.


----------



## bandit571

Should I feel left out?


----------



## Karda

remember it is bad to have an even number of any item, so if you have six jacks you must buy another to make the number odd


----------



## BlasterStumps

I took a few minutes this morning to sharpen the blade out of the No 12. I just basically made the edge flat but it was already ground on about a 25º so I reground it with the same angle. I used my diamond stone for the final touch up and to flatten and smooth the back. I then turned a burr. I can say that it cuts well, howsomever, don't think it is as sharp as it could be if I had prepared it like a card scraper edge.


----------



## HokieKen

Well… look what y'all made me do…


----------



## HokieKen

Blaster, I have my #12 sharpened to 45 degrees and then a burr turned. I did it like that because that's how my #80 blade was. I don't know how they were originally sharpened. Since you can pitch the blade at a wide variety of angles, it probably doesn't really matter.


----------



## rad457

> Well… look what y all made me do…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


LOL! I looked at a few myself but after being outbid on a MFs #14, 18 and a 22 said the heck with it 
No #12 but do have a Veritas scrapper plane that just has a 45 deg. bevel, no burr, change the cut by changing the Angle of the blade, works for me! 99% of the time the Bearcat card scrapper is used?


----------



## RWE

Hokie:

Me too! Looks like the same model. Is your's branded?? No brand on the one I got. I am going to think of it as an EC Stearns, since I like the Stearns saw vise I have.

It seems to me that this model of fence was sold by more than one company. There is a fellow on Ebay selling one that is identical that is marked Shapleigh that is identical to this one other than the branding on the body:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Norvell-Shapleigh-Hardware-Diamond-Edge-Tool-Jointer-Plane-Fence-Gauge-Gage/401740981481?hash=item5d89a0e4e9:g:E8MAAOSw22lb2fsj

I have seen images now for Keen Kutter, EC Stearns etc. that look identical except for the brand.


----------



## HokieKen

It was listed as a Millers Falls 88 RWE. I don't know if that's true or not. But I got it for a good price because it's missing the pivot lock hardware so I went with it. I'll have to make the hardware and investigate further when it gets here.


----------



## donwilwol

https://www.timetestedtools.net/product/stanley-389-jointer-fence-my-389-022618-2/

If you're just looking for a fence.


----------



## HokieKen

A little more investigation suggests that the fence I bought was likely made by Langdon prior to Millers Falls taking them over. When MF bought Langdon, they cast the company name into the back of the fence and added a wooden knob. Like I said, when it gets here, I'll see if I can nail specifics down.


----------



## HokieKen

Awwww hell yeah


----------



## sansoo22

^^^ Is that your back ordered birthday present? Or some other surprise you purchased for yourself?


----------



## HokieKen

That's my back-ordered birthday present


----------



## BlasterStumps

Now Kenny you have the mother of all planes. If it is the same as the one I have, you can't go wrong.


----------



## corelz125

Kenny did you see the pic of Miller's Falls 07 Don W posted on Instagram ?


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Blaster. I've been eyeing this plane for 3 or 4 years. Just couldn't bring myself to spend that much on a plane. Then I planned a trip to Handworks this year and made up my mind I would splurge on it at the show. Then Handworks was cancelled so my wife bought the plane anyway to console me ;-)

I have to say though… This is my first "premium" plane and I'm a little unhappy about the fit and finish.



























Those places are just cosmetic. Still, I expect more for $265. But, this last spot is a glaring flaw that is a noticably raised sharp spot on the sole and a visible ding on the side. The plane was obviously dropped and then just packaged up anyway.









Sure, I can draw file and polish that ding and the others won't affect function. But, I shouldn't have to IMO. And I paid for a pretty plane so even cosmetic issues that are that apparent are unacceptable I think. If I want to deal with chipped enamel and dings on the sole, I'll buy a vintage plane. Honestly, just based on the unboxing, I might have done better with Wood River or a new Stanley. I really hope the PMV-11 blade justifies the shoddy finish on the plane.


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny did you see the pic of Miller s Falls 07 Don W posted on Instagram ?
> 
> - corelz125


Yep. Beautiful plane. Mine's prettier though ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ken, I'd send it back….


----------



## theoldfart

OK . Hehe


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, I have every intention of doing just that Smitty.


----------



## HokieKen

I think Kev's been in the sauce tonight…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's good! I mean, it sucks bad that u have that hassle. But you'll never be happy with a new plane that's chunked up…


----------



## rad457

I have had that plane on my wish list for over a year, never in stock? I picked up the Veritas L.A. #4 and a 55 degree #4 as well as the scrapper plane, all were perfect. I keep hoping to come across a affordable Stanley #62 but sort of giving up on that dream My M.F.s 07 still stuck in Kentucky, at least the new iron made it there also!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Wow Kenny, I agree, that plane should have been pulled and tagged as a second or blem. So sorry bud.

Reminds me of a set of auger bits that my wife bought me for Christmas. Advertised as NIB never unwrapped three tier boxed set of Russell Jennings. Upon unwrapping the first bit and trying to drill a hole, I was scratching my head. The bit would not pull itself into the wood. I tried another, same same. and another. Finally brought them in and took a look at them under the microscope. Only two or three bits in that set had a a halfway decent lead screw. The rest were mismade badly. I think someone pulled them from the line and later boxed them up. They were unusable. I called the seller and they took them back.


----------



## theoldfart

No sauce Kenny, just confused.


----------



## ac0rn

Let Lee Valley know of your dis-satisfaction. They want their customers to be happy.


----------



## HokieKen

I shot LV an e-mail this morning with pictures of the bad spots. I have no doubt they'll happily exchange it. I've asked them to ship me a replacement before I ship this one back so I can use it in the meantime. I also feel compelled to inspect the replacement before returning this one. I'm sure it'll be better but I may be a little sensitive right now :-/


----------



## controlfreak

This has me wanting to ask how much they discount the blemished ones?


----------



## DLK

Did anyone experience a mail slow down? Did it just affect certain places and we nipped it in the bud befor it spread? Don't get political, I am just trying to discern where it happend. I had two packages arrive speedily. but maybe they came and went through unaffected regions.


----------



## Mosquito

usually fairly decently CF, but they're usually part of their Cyber Monday deals.

Kenny, hopefully you get it exchanged for a good one. I bought a shooting plane as a factory second/blemished example from a cyber monday sale, and it was in better shape than that one… I can't even tell why mine was a second, so I'm surprised that one made it through QA


----------



## Mosquito

Don, I haven't had any major issues. The two things I've shipped through USPS were not delayed, and a package I've received through USPS was not delayed, but it was a single day from only about 80 miles away.

I've had way worse luck with UPS than I have USPS in the last few months, even with all the hubbub lately, but I don't have a very broad sample size for USPS


----------



## controlfreak

> Did anyone experience a mail slow down? Did it just affect certain places and we nipped it in the bud befor it spread? Don t get political, I am just trying to discern where it happend. I had two packages arrive speedily. but maybe they came and went through unaffected regions.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I sent out a USPS Money Order on 8/4/2020 and it has been incognito ever since.


----------



## HokieKen

USPS has been noticably slow for me since about early August Don. Stuff still gets here but what used to be a 2 day wait is now 3 or maybe 4. Everything is still making it in reasonable time though…


----------



## controlfreak

> USPS has been noticably slow for me since about early August Don. Stuff still gets here but what used to be a 2 day wait is now 3 or maybe 4. Everything is still making it in reasonable time though…
> 
> - HokieKen


That's about when they started a "no overtime" policy. I here the workers were not happy about that.


----------



## donwilwol

USPS has been hit and miss for a long time. I know if I had medicine that was life or death, I'd prefer another method of transport.


----------



## sansoo22

I've had issues with packages showing up damaged this month. Two customers have received boxes that looked like they were given the Ace Ventura treatment. One of the planes I shipped actually ended up with a chip in the heel. I don't know how they managed to do that with the amount of bubble wrap, newspaper, and air pillows that were in that package but they did.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> Did anyone experience a mail slow down?
> - Combo Prof


Yes.

- Monthly bulk mail sale fliers are arriving later than usual. Used to arrive between 28th-31st, not arrive 3-5 days after sale as started?

+1 Kenny - Package delays are annoying, but not a problem. Seems like USPS is reverting back to older slower service levels, where package from east coast takes 7-10 days to reach Phoenix. In past, smaller first class packages would end up on airplane and get delivered in 3 days, now even smallest envelope goes by truck and takes about a week.

Have noticed that packages from east are being routed to smaller cities in metro Phoenix area, instead of main Phoenix hub; which is a new thing. Then it takes an extra day to reach hub. Also noticed that anything arriving on dock late in day, may not make the overnight truck to next PO, or final sorting PO; which means a 1-2 day delay less than 40 miles from my house.

Funny you post this:
Carrier dropped off a large package last week, while I was outside in garage. I said 'thank you - have great day!, she said: ' Sorry it's late, they cut my overtime', as she ran to her truck she was being chased by a bear.

This topic should be in a separate thread, no?

Cheers!


----------



## DLK

^ yes this topic should be in a different thread. It was by accident I started it here.

I think it hub dependent where the slowdown occurs. My experiences isa 
m:

best = USPS > Amazon > UPS = worse.


----------



## Mosquito

for me, USPS has been most consistent, or FedEx for the primary shipping companies. UPS and Amazon are about on the same level for me the past few months. I'm sure they're all overwhelmed by volume with more people not going out if they can avoid it.

For me, though, 100% Spee-Dee Delivery has been the best hands down. But they're also only regional, so that helps too lol


----------



## controlfreak

> ^ yes this topic should be in a different thread. It was by accident I started it here.
> 
> I think it hub dependent where the slowdown occurs. My experiences isa
> m:
> 
> best = USPS > Amazon > UPS = worse.
> 
> - Combo Prof


With the USPS totally screwing up two different deliveries in a month I am going to have to place them as = Worse


----------



## bigblockyeti

Ken, I'd be sensitive too, that's a boat load for a plane and if the payment is made perfectly the product needs to be delivered in perfect shape.

Our USPS is a joke, I was planning on going out of town so I place a mail hold, after we didn't go, I cancelled it and it was if it was never cancelled, didn't get my mail until we would have originally returned. I contacted USPS, they instructed me to reach out directly to the local PO but they have zero contact info and I'm not enthused with the idea of stepping into public government building until 2022 or so.


----------



## DLK

So …. SC, VA have bad USPS, but MI, MN have Good USPS ….NY is so-so. What does this mean?


----------



## HokieKen

To clarify, I'm not necessarily saying USPS is bad around here Don. Just that it takes longer to get packages than it used to. Historically I have enjoyed great service compared to friends in some parts of the country. And maybe I still do. Just not as great as it used to be. I can still ship a box full of wood across the country for less than $15 though. So it's still a pretty great service. Just a little slower than it used to be ;-)


----------



## DLK

Well bad was shorthand for all of sudden becoming slower than normal.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, unfortunately that remains accurate :-(


----------



## HokieKen

Also, I sent Lee Valley an e-mail first thing this morning and still haven't recieved a response. I find that a little disappointing. I know most CS departments have same-day-response policies.

I will say, they make returns painless. You print a form to fill out and a prepaid label right from their site.


----------



## bandit571

THE worst? DHL….avoid at all costs…
Haven't received anything from the mail, other than bills, for almost a month….


----------



## Karda

I buy a lot of book from ebay and most of the big sellers use DHL and they usually add a couple days to the shio time. I do not like them


----------



## sansoo22

Got the blue crew all shined and sharpened tonight









Some maple ribbons









And some pine ribbons. 








That scrap of pine has a decent amount of ray fleck in the edge grain. The low angle block takes transparent shavings without them falling apart.

And joining the stable…well most of the stable…pretty sure a few have wandered off


----------



## HokieKen

Just to update, Lee Valley responded today and are processing a replacement plane to be sent to me. They assured me it will be inspected before shipping for any defects. I imagine I'll get the pick of the litter on that one ;-)


----------



## Karda

good


----------



## Notw

> Just to update, Lee Valley responded today and are processing a replacement plane to be sent to me. They assured me it will be inspected before shipping for any defects. I imagine I'll get the pick of the litter on that one ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


As you should


----------



## HokieKen

I'm really not picky. I know the plane won't look new for long in any case. But the ding that would require filing bugged me enough to return it. I probably would have lived with the cosmetic blemishes. I just don't want to have to file a raised area out of the sole of a new plane…

Kudos to LV though for stepping up and giving the CS that tools in this price range warrant  Pooh happens. I'm okay with that as long as somebody cleans it up ;-)


----------



## Karda

the cosmetic problems can be lived with, but should they you paid a lot of money for a perfect plane thats what you should get. Another way of looking at it is if the cosmetics were bad what did they slip up on that realy matters. You could correct or live with their mistakes you have the skills but what about somebody who doesn't have the skill needed to repair a plane. In short it is their responsibility to provide a perfect product send is back. If is is something minor like scratches I would at least let them know. If you don't tell them they won't know and quality control will get worse


----------



## BillWhite

Mine is a Langdon. Name is stamped on the fence adjusting knob. Works really well too.


> Hokie:
> 
> Me too! Looks like the same model. Is your s branded?? No brand on the one I got. I am going to think of it as an EC Stearns, since I like the Stearns saw vise I have.
> 
> It seems to me that this model of fence was sold by more than one company. There is a fellow on Ebay selling one that is identical that is marked Shapleigh that is identical to this one other than the branding on the body:
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Norvell-Shapleigh-Hardware-Diamond-Edge-Tool-Jointer-Plane-Fence-Gauge-Gage/401740981481?hash=item5d89a0e4e9:g:E8MAAOSw22lb2fsj
> 
> I have seen images now for Keen Kutter, EC Stearns etc. that look identical except for the brand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE


----------



## HokieKen

> the cosmetic problems can be lived with, but should they you paid a lot of money for a perfect plane thats what you should get. Another way of looking at it is if the cosmetics were bad what did they slip up on that realy matters. You could correct or live with their mistakes you have the skills but what about somebody who doesn t have the skill needed to repair a plane. In short it is their responsibility to provide a perfect product send is back. If is is something minor like scratches I would at least let them know. If you don t tell them they won t know and quality control will get worse
> 
> - Karda


Excellent point.


----------



## HokieKen

Bill or RWE, can one of you give me some close-up pics of the hardware that locks in the angle? I need to make some and not sure exactly how it works.  Mainly, I'm wondering which parts are threaded.


----------



## RWE

Hokie: Will do this afternoon. Heading out the door now on some errands.


----------



## bandit571

A T-9 No. 7c that has 2 drilled and tapped holes in it's side..that is the way it came to my shop….so…I made a Walnut fence to fit…not really adjustable…









Meh…didn't really like it…









Thumbscrews to make things a bit easier….


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks RWE! No hurry at all


----------



## RWE

Hokie:

The rod is 3.5 inches long, with an eye on one end. The rod is 3/16 wide (diameter).

The pin in that runs through the eye of the rod is 1/8 inch in diameter, 9/16 long after being penned (sp?) into place.

The "bolt" is 5/16 thick, and with the caliper in the threads it measures 9/32. 1.25 inches long.

Threads are fine, my eyeball test said 10 or 11 ppi (used to dealing with saws, not sure of the proper terminology for bolts).

The nut is 7/8 inch diameter on the fat side, 35/64's on the extreme other end. Lenght is 43/64's. The knurled "fat" side is 1/4 inch wide.

Washer is thin 3/64, 17/32 outside diameter. 5/16 Inside diameter.


----------



## HokieKen

Wow, fantastic RWE! Way more information than I expected  I can definitely sort it out from that!

So it just pulls the round rod tight against the little cast leg that the bolt goes through? No curved washer or anything between the flat cast face and the round rod?


----------



## HokieKen

If anybody is on the prowl for a Millers Falls #10, there's one on Ebay that may go for a decent price. The seller doesn't give the model number anywhere or show the inscription on the side. The only way to tell is by looking for the iron width stamped at the top.


----------



## DLK

Interesting to me anyway is that it is located where I did my undergraduate degrees.


----------



## HokieKen

It's a sign Don! ;-)


----------



## sansoo22

I kind of want it just so I can make it shiny again.


----------



## Karda

i kinda feel that way, i want to buy planes or handsaws I don't need because I like to restore them


----------



## sansoo22

> i kinda feel that way, i want to buy planes or handsaws I don t need because I like to restore them
> 
> - Karda


It's a real problem and I should probably seek counseling for it. At last count there were 15 planes still waiting to be restored in my shop. I should probably get most of those done before I buy anything else but I told myself that when I only had 5 left to restore and somehow more showed up anyway.


----------



## Karda

i should have that problem, there are no flea markets around where I live and I have heard most vintage saws are found there. i won't do ebay most of what I have seen ore over priced.


----------



## DLK

> It's a sign Don! ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


The bidding is already beyond what I paid for the one I have and use almost every day now.

Thanks for drawing all the attention to it. LOL.


----------



## donwilwol

Karda, you live near what is one of the biggest flea markets in the north east. Look up madison bouckville antique show, then take a drive down rt 5 near Rochester (known as antique alley) and you're not far from a few of the biggest antique shops in the north east.

You'll probably have to wait for covid to subside, but your in my favorite hunting grounds. It's a mecca of antique tools.


----------



## Karda

that may be but I can't drive and my wife works week ends but right near me there is only one and it is only open week ends till 3. That is my big problem with sales is they close around 2 she don't even get home till 2.30


----------



## sansoo22

> i should have that problem, there are no flea markets around where I live and I have heard most vintage saws are found there. i won t do ebay most of what I have seen ore over priced.
> 
> - Karda


To do ebay you REALLY got to know what you're looking for details wise. I can't speak for saws but for planes I pass on anything without large clear images. I look for the super dirty stuff that doesn't attract much attention. Its still a gamble but most the time I win.



> Karda, you live near what is one of the biggest flea markets in the north east. Look up madison bouckville antique show, then take a drive down rt 5 near Rochester (known as antique alley) and you re not far from a few of the biggest antique shops in the north east.
> 
> You ll probably have to wait for covid to subside, but your in my favorite hunting grounds. It s a mecca of antique tools.
> 
> - Don W


Once COVID dies down I want to take a road trip out that way. I figure all the work from home time is saving mileage on my truck so I can burn some driving half way across the country. Might make a it a fall time foliage and antiques road trip.


----------



## donwilwol

Well, if you're going that far you might as well hit rt 4 in NH and then up rt 1 in Maine. Once you get that far, you'll need to head a little further north to liberty tool. Just make sure there is plenty of room left on the credit cards!


----------



## theoldfart

Liberty Tool then on to Mt Desert Island(Bar Harbor) for Hulls Cove Tool Barn. Hulls Cove is where Skip(owner) brings all the tools before they get to Liberty and Capt Tinkhams In Searsport.

Be sure to look under all the shelves and cabinets, I found a few choice goodies that way. These places take time, there's a lotta stuff just packed together. Well worth the time investment.


----------



## ac0rn

With all that, maybe you better bring a trailer. Just remember Lucille Ball with the Trailer and rocks. :>)


----------



## sansoo22

Karda - This is one of the planes I took a gamble on with eBay. Cost me $60 bucks to my door. I thought it had all the markings of a type 11 but the front knob thru me off.

It had a v-logo, 3 patent dates, a small depth adjuster, but a tall knob. Could be a type 11 or could be a type 12









If we take a look at the frog we see it has the shorter ribs that hold the yoke indicative of a true type 11









This isn't a stellar deal but Type 11s do tend to sell well above average pricing. Last time I was bidding a no 4 in similar condition, with the proper knob, it went for $110.

This plane could be left as is and make a fine user but I like low knob planes so I will hit up Bob Kuane or Eric at nhplaneparts to see if they have one. Then the really nice knob for this plane can go on a type 12 or 13 for a really good price because it has a broken or missing knob.


----------



## Karda

i know to the trained eye there are some deals on ebay but you have to know what to look for, I don't. I like to see and handle what I buy I don't screw my self as much. I did find an indoor flea market near me but they didn't do much with old tools. I glanced at a box with some tools and found a Stanley #53 spoke shave. a few hours in so evaporust and it cleaned up beautifully


----------



## 33706

> With all that, maybe you better bring a trailer. Just remember Lucille Ball with the Trailer and rocks. :>)
> 
> - Jeff


during a trip to British Columbia a few years ago, I loaded up a rental car with planes….on our way back to the hotel, I realized we'd be flying home!! Duhhh! Had to spend $$$$ to ship the stuff home, we'd never had gotten it all on the plane. Oh, and I just found my DVD copy of *"The Long, Long Trailer"*...yup, I'd be putting a load on the springs, too!!


----------



## 33706

> Karda, you live near what is one of the biggest flea markets in the north east. Look up madison bouckville antique show, then take a drive down rt 5 near Rochester (known as antique alley) and you re not far from a few of the biggest antique shops in the north east.
> 
> You ll probably have to wait for covid to subside, but your in my favorite hunting grounds. It s a mecca of antique tools.
> 
> - Don W


There's always the* Brimfield* summer shows, too!


----------



## theoldfart

Brimfields reputation tends to drive up prices. It's also a mad house. I used to do training rides n my bike through there. Scary drivers with the rust lust in their eyes.


----------



## 33706

> Brimfields reputation tends to drive up prices. It's also a mad house. I used to do training rides n my bike through there. Scary drivers with the rust lust in their eyes.
> 
> - theoldfart


When I look at my keepers in my glass showcase, I realize that I cannot usually remember what I paid for them, unless there is a remnant of a price sticker on them. My affinity for the collectible, rare, or unusual planes outweighs whatever money was given to own them. Others… not so much. And I got a lot of 'others' too…


----------



## sansoo22

> When I look at my keepers in my glass showcase, I realize that I cannot usually remember what I paid for them, unless there is a remnant of a price sticker on them. My affinity for the collectible, rare, or unusual planes outweighs whatever money was given to own them. Others… not so much. And I got a lot of others too…
> 
> - poopiekat


I tend to have selective memory problems when it comes to recalling what I paid for my keepers as well.


----------



## HokieKen

Funny. I know exactly what I paid for all of my planes. Including shipping.


----------



## donwilwol

i agree you really have to dig to find great deals at Brimfield, but they are there. Liberty tool and those folks also know what their stuff is worth, so you're paying market as well. But if it's something you want or need, they are all good places to find it.

As far as knowing exactly what I paid for everything LOL, I'm not sure i want to know in some cases.


----------



## HokieKen

Well to be fair Don, every one I've bought has been an intended user to live in my shop. So I haven't purchased nearly as many as guys like you and Sansoo ;-) Also, I think all but 3 of my planes have come from Ebay so I have a record to remind me if needed ;-) The other three were either purchased or swapped for from Canadian LJs. Two from Poopiekat and one from Glenn In the North (I think was his handle. I don't think he's been around for several years.) I guess those Canadians will do anything they can to get rid of Millers Falls )


----------



## 33706

> Well to be fair Don, every one I ve bought has been an intended user to live in my shop. So I haven t purchased nearly as many as guys like you and Sansoo ;-) Also, I think all but 3 of my planes have come from Ebay so I have a record to remind me if needed ;-) The other three were either purchased or swapped for from Canadian LJs. Two from Poopiekat and one from Glenn In the North (I think was his handle. I don t think he s been around for several years.) I guess those Canadians will do anything they can to get rid of Millers Falls )
> 
> - HokieKen


With all the great deals on British planes, thanks to favorable postal rates out of Great Britain, we have to make room by peddling off our MillersFalls stuff. Any manufacturer that doesn't ascribe to the Stanley numerical designations gets the boot from my shop!! (just kidding)


----------



## anneb3

You mean you actually pay for planes and other old tools, most of mine just seem to show, up in my shop.
Some are missing parts but I have a box for them to rest in.
Lots of time someone just says, I found this at an estate sale , it is old and covered with rust but maybe you could use some of the parts. So I will say, here take this one I took most of the rust off, sharpened it. See how it goes.

My blunt opinion is--if the blade is sharp enough,, the bottom is not in bad shape, it be
comes a useable tool. too much cleaning is just like getting a spit shine on my shoes. Been there, done that,
no more, aa old tool is just some thing to do a job, not to sit on a shelf not to sit on a shelf next to that pair
of shinnyy shoes.

Just my opinion, from too darn hot to derust anything.
Anne



> Well to be fair Don, every one I ve bought has been an intended user to live in my shop. So I haven t purchased nearly as many as guys like you and Sansoo ;-) Also, I think all but 3 of my planes have come from Ebay so I have a record to remind me if needed ;-) The other three were either purchased or swapped for from Canadian LJs. Two from Poopiekat and one from Glenn In the North (I think was his handle. I don t think he s been around for several years.) I guess those Canadians will do anything they can to get rid of Millers Falls )
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## rad457

Showed up finally spare blade the day before. After a few hours was able to salavage origanal blade a make then plane a little nicer and able to cut some shavings. Funny the OEM spare blade requried an angle adjustment!
Not the Prettiest plane on the bench and required some delicate adjustments to set up?(hammer


----------



## HokieKen

Nice Andre  Yep, you'll have to use a hammer to adjust and my 07 as well as a Stanley 140 I had both had to have the skew angle reground. I don't think most people care about the rabbeting ability so they let the angle drift over time.


----------



## rad457

Took a little more work than expected to make it work so the pretty part probable not going to happen 
Did give the cap a quick buff. Have a Lie Nielson 60 1/2 rabbet plane so not too worried about rabbeting.
Got to stop reading anything you post anymore, looks like a M.F.s #10 is heading my way LOL!


----------



## P89DC

> I m really not picky. I know the plane won t look new for long in any case. But the ding that would require filing bugged me enough to return it. I probably would have lived with the cosmetic blemishes. I just don t want to have to file a raised area out of the sole of a new plane…
> 
> Kudos to LV though for stepping up and giving the CS that tools in this price range warrant  Pooh happens. I m okay with that as long as somebody cleans it up ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Yes, it seems Veritas doesn't value quality these days as they did in the past. They told me it's no big deal as it doesn't effect the operation and it's hard to see when the plane is assembled. As such they'll send out a replacement at their convenience (apparently when they make another batch). Six months later I still haven't received a replacement….


----------



## sansoo22

Those marks would bug me like crazy. Not because of the cosmetic issue though. Fully assembled that is a place I'm not likely to check for rust often. I expect the finish there to remain intact so I don't have to. The bare metal shining thru the finish would worry me quite a bit.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree with Sansoo. That's definitely an unacceptable issue.


----------



## P89DC

LV is correct, functionality isn't impacted. I was disappointed because they had a good lever cap but it was in the warehouse awaiting another customer order. LV told me I needed to wait for another batch to be manufactured and they couldn't/wouldn't tell me the time frame for a replacement. When I expressed my disappointment someone named Robin told me they were cancelling my replacement part and emailing me a return label. Never received either so I moved on. I saw in this thread that someone else was shipped obviously defective product and i chimed in to let people know it's not rare and not always fixed by LV. Buyer beware…..


----------



## bandit571

West Liberty, OH "Walk-about"...sights..









$27 a piece for the two jacks…block was way too much…









Two junk #4s (steel frog, and a Handyman/Sears) and a #5 Stanley that I missed out on…$15…..









None worth picking up….









Woodies, anyone? Stanley #4…meh…
What I came home with…









VBM #3c, a Stanley #4. and a Craftsman/Millers Falls #5….$10 total.

Lots of walking around today….Missed out on the Stanley No. 5 jack..and a Stanley No. 7c…..someone got there just ahead of me. Oh well….already have one of each in the shop….didn't really need pairs.









#3 sized VBM is a "c" model….other than some rust…everything is complete…no cracks nor breaks. 
#4 Stanley has the yellow in the plated lever cap, nd the handles were painted black. There is the frog adjust bolt.

#5 will be a parts plane….

That Plough plane? Tote was snapped off, wedges for the arms were MIA…meh. 
At least the weather was nice…









Fest runs through Monday.


----------



## rad457

Did you find me a #62 ?


----------



## bandit571

Still bummed on missing out on the No. 5 and the No.7c Would have been $25 total….
Anyway..Sargent No. 408c, VBM is now ready for work…









have to work on the iron a bit more…









Couple of pits along the edge…









Might be ok..









For a $2 plane…


----------



## bandit571

From this mess….(Stanley #4, T-20)









To a working smooth plane…









Took about 90 minutes….









Yup..the very dark, Royal Navy Blue….









Cleaned up nicely enough..









Yup, the one in the center….









Got rid of the flaky black paint on the handles….ave them a new oil finish. 









Almost like a new plane…


----------



## HokieKen

Maiden voyage  Just got the blade honed and dialed in the setup. I like it a lot  I actually really like the Norris adjuster. That was the main thing I wasn't sure if I would like but it seems to work just as well as the traditional adjustments.


----------



## DLK

Does the Norris adjuster hold the blade in place or will the blade creep back during repeated use?


----------



## HokieKen

I don't anticipate any issues with the blade creeping Don but I haven't used it enough to say for sure. Everything seems right and tight and I don't recall reading about any problems with that. Only time will tell though I suppose.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thought I'd get a jump on the trend towards lighter smoothing planes.










Wait… lighter is not a thing?


----------



## HokieKen

Everything is a thing Smitty


----------



## drsurfrat

Does it have an aluminum blade, too?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Just the plane's body and frog are aluminum.










Iron has a problem though.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Worked to square the primary bevel, and whacked the back of the iron several times to address a bulge that would have prevented a flat back.

That done, closed up the mouth as the frog was set back quite a bit.










And now it's performing as it should.










And without all the pesky mass getting in the way…


----------



## DLK

> I don t anticipate any issues with the blade creeping Don but I haven t used it enough to say for sure. Everything seems right and tight and I don t recall reading about any problems with that. Only time will tell though I suppose.
> 
> - HokieKen


Thats what I read was the main objection to the norris adjuster.


----------



## Mosquito

Awesome Smitty. And don't think we didn't notice the tote decal… is it original?


----------



## HokieKen

I should say that I haven't read that about the LAJ specifically Don. I would think it would be more likely to pivot rather than get pushed back just based on my initial fiddling with it. There's very little backlash in the threads and the hole in the iron is a really tight fit to the boss on the adjuster. I should be able to confirm or deny with a little more certainty in a few months though


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yes, all original, from Der Leachmeister's September Tool List.

Simply.
Couldn't.
Resist.


----------



## Mosquito

haha, definitely been there before :-D Glad it found a good home


----------



## BlasterStumps

Kenny, one thing I have experienced with my low angle jack is that I tend to touch the depth adjuster knob as I use the plane which seems to shift the cutter angle or loosen the knob. I attribute it to my big mitts.


----------



## bandit571

This could take a while..









Ummmm, could be…









Maybe just a good clean up?

















Have the chipbreaker/ iron already in the shop….iron was bent a bit….









Have a few days to spare….

New Neck jewelry..









30 day trial…


----------



## Karda

yea that will take a while. But challenge is good


----------



## DonBroussard

I picked up a Stanley 79 side rabbet plane this weekend. I had never seen one before, so it begged to come home with me. I already have the Stanley 98 and 99 side rabbet planes, so the 79 is duplicative. BTW, it's a Sweetheart.


----------



## bandit571

Don…better hide that from Smitty….


----------



## DonBroussard

True that, Bandit. Smitty likely already has at least one of these.


----------



## theoldfart

Handy little plane Don. The bullnose feature is useful for trimming stopped dados.


----------



## DLK

Don, Nice I use mine often. Check out Sliding dovetails with the Stanley #79 by Derek Cohen.


----------



## DonBroussard

Thanks, Kevin and Don.

Don-Nice little tutorial from Derek. Unfortunately, my No. 79 doesn't have the fence. My 98 and 99 don't have fences or depth stops either. It doesn't look like the 98 or 99 were set up to have the fence or depth stops.

Kevin-It looks like you have to remove the end piece to get the bullnose feature. Is that correct, or is there another option I'm not seeing?


----------



## DLK

I think you could make a wooden fence …. and it would be better!


----------



## bandit571

Getting there…









Someone had broken the plane…then did a bad braze job…









They never checked if the sole stayed flat, when it was repaired….was more like a banana…1/8" gaps on the ends, high spot was just aft of the moth opening….

Frog was set too far forward….made it tough getting the screwdriver bit in the Hammerhead drill to settle into the slots…









Once loosen, I slid the frog aft…and then could remove the bolts….munged one slot up…

Work in progress


----------



## BrandonW

I plan on making this No 5 type 11 into a user and want to fix the horn on the tote. Any tips on picking the right wood to match? I know different woods are sold as "rosewood" and so some specificity on the type/species would be appreciated.


----------



## donwilwol

> I plan on making this No 5 type 11 into a user and want to fix the horn on the tote. Any tips on picking the right wood to match? I know different woods are sold as "rosewood" and so some specificity on the type/species would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Brandon


East Indian rosewood is about as close as you will come.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, yes you remove the end piece.


----------



## bandit571

Almost done with the Craftsman #5
All back together…









Swapped knobs with the VLine plane…tote is a Rosewood one I had on hand….OEM one even had a partial Craftsman label….blue background, gold lettering….just _sman is all that remains…









twins with a Type 3 M-F No. 14…..right down to the missing horns…and..









Not too bad…for a Craftsman Jack plane….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Don, nice find!

Mine in made in england, with fence. Congrats on the SW.


----------



## bandit571

$3 Stanley No. 3c, T-10 was almost too good to be true..









Figured at least some parts out of it…."iron" was a block plane's iron..









Among other issues…
Then a $2 jointer…









Stanley No. 31…with a circled Eagle Logo on the toe….at least all the parts are there..$2?


----------



## Thorbjorn88

Got these two planes off craigslist yesterday and I'm very pleased. Someone did most of the tune up operations a few years ago and I just need to clean and lubricate a few things but they work great already. (the hock iron in the 4 is one I bought for a different plane but didn't end up using.)










When I showed my wife my score she asked a really weird question: "How many hand planes do you have?" I don't know how that would affect anything but I decided to find out. I bought my first hand plane at an estate sale in January 2018 and here I am now:


----------



## Karda

not a bad haul for 2 years huntin


----------



## KentInOttawa

Yeap. That's one way that it starts.


----------



## HokieKen

> ....
> 
> When I showed my wife my score she asked a really weird question: "How many hand planes do you have?" ...
> 
> - Thorbjorn88


How many shoes does she have? ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

If anyone is near Lynchburg, VA there are some good planes at very fair prices in this listing. Especially considering they are ready to go straight to work (at least according to the poster).

Unfortunately, it's not close enough to me for me to pick anything up and ship it for anyone or I would offer :-(


----------



## Phil32

Here is my lifetime collection: No need for shiny.


----------



## theoldfart

Phil, i do have a lot more planes than you but most of mine look like yours. Just don't understand the buff daddy thing. As long as they are sharp and well maintained their good for another generation or so..


----------



## controlfreak

> Phil, i do have a lot more planes than you but most of mine look like yours. Just don t understand the buff daddy thing. As long as they are sharp and well maintained their good for another generation or so..
> 
> - theoldfart


This is good news. I can cross buff daddy off my list. Just honing a plane collection can be a daunting task.


----------



## BrandonW

I love a good patina on a hand plane, but some of the planes I've picked up were so rusty, they needed the deep clean and end up on the shiny side.


----------



## HokieKen

Don't fear the shiny fellas. Especially on Millers Falls planes. On them old Stanley things it's just lipstick on a pig.

;-P


----------



## donwilwol

> Here is my lifetime collection: No need for shiny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Phil32


I usually have more than that sitting on my lap.


----------



## BrandonW

In terms of aesthetics, I'd take a Bailey type 10 or 11, or square-sided Bedrock over a Millers Falls any day of the week. I will say, though, that the Buck Rogers version is pretty bad ass.


----------



## Karda

shinney is over rated


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I totally kid Brandon. I think me, Bandit and Andre are the only ones on this site who have MF planes as regular users


----------



## controlfreak

I tried to buy a MF once but all I did was bid the price up….....sorry Kenny.


----------



## Mosquito

I still haven't found my other MF plane… I have no idea where it went lol
The one I do know where it is, is a Buck Rogers that Don made a bloodwood knob for, since it was MIA


----------



## rad457

Well,,,, I may have a few planes, wife caught the M.F.s #10 being delivered and sort implied that perhaps I may have a problem? (Think there may be 2 or 3 more on the way?) Another Winchester joining the herd a #5.
She came out to the workshop later and by chance I was working on some projects for the Favorite Daughter, floor covered in shavings so now all she wants is a list/pic with approx. value so that they are covered by Insurance and when she knows what to ask for them after I'm gone? Something about why I needed that 12" jointer/Planner?


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm..primer coat..









Have screws to replace…
Shiny?









About as shiny as this Type 10 No.3c will ever get…









Was unable to set up a test track….grinder is in the way…









Has 2 patent dates…


----------



## BrandonW

Did you replace the tote on that 3c, Bandit?


----------



## drsurfrat

I have the Buck Rogers 709. I couldn't resist getting it, and now I can't bring myself to use it. I do use my MF 07 skew block.




























I won't admit I have a problem, but I am on the edge of admitting that I might have too many planes.


----------



## bandit571

Yep…old tote was a loaner they had installed….after drilling out to hold a bolt from a front knob..









WAY down inside….
A before..









Sems to look a bit better now…..


----------



## corelz125

Just tell your wife you only have 10 just leave out the part 10 of each number. It's amazing how fast cast iron can multiply once you have the first two.


----------



## HokieKen

I love my 07 block drsurftrat! I don't have either of the Buck Rogers planes.

Yet.


----------



## drsurfrat

Good grief, there are 2 types of Buck Rodgers as well. I'm not going down *that* rabbit hole.

https://virginiatoolworks.com/2014/01/04/tool-profile-millers-falls-buck-rogers-planes/

Hey, they are in Virginia, like you.


----------



## HokieKen

I am tempted by tge Buck Rogers planes because there's only two of them and because the design seems like a really good one to me.

They bring more on ebay than I'm willing to shell out just to satisfy my curiosity though. I do keep an eye out though. Still hoping to stumble on a #7 and a #24 some day that aren't absurdly priced but I ain't holding my breath.


----------



## rad457

Got the M.F.s # 10 into the shop, A quick rehab, little sandpaper then bombay stain and BLO for the wood, make sure all was flat then way too much work on a pitted blade, but she sure did cut pretty, might be a user?


----------



## HokieKen

That is by far the most used plane in my shop Andre. Excellent score


----------



## Karda

A dumb question, why is it that so few of you use MF planes. iknow nothing will beat Stanley but I thought MF was ggod thanks


----------



## rad457

> A dumb question, why is it that so few of you use MF planes. iknow nothing will beat Stanley but I thought MF was ggod thanks
> 
> - Karda


I have been told, only the very wise, Intelliegnt and Handsome woodworkers are entrusted with these Mystical tools?
Sorta like a Secret Club


----------



## Karda

oh ok, does it count if you are just old. I am certainly not wise just ask my wife


----------



## donwilwol

Millers Falls are just not as common. They started making planes very late, so you'll probably find 50 stanley planes to every Miller's Falls. Millers Falls started so late their planes are painted not japanned. Other than that, I don't believe there is a reason.

Stanley's marketing also out did everyone. I believe the Sargent 400 series are a better guality than Stanley, but Stanley still outsold them.


----------



## Karda

ok that makes sense


----------



## controlfreak

> been told, only the very wise, Intelliegnt and Handsome woodworkers are entrusted with these Mystical tools?
> Sorta like a Secret Club
> 
> - Andre


I guess that rules out Kenny


----------



## bandit571

Hey! Quit drooling on my planes…..


----------



## bandit571

So…have a Stanley No. 31 I am currently cleaning up….up on the nose/toe Is both the size stamp. ...and the Circle logo of Stanley Rule & Level Co. with an eagle inside the circle…..trying to clean the end up enough to bring out the stamp a bit better…









May try a sharpie to bring it out better? I don't want to sand it any more…been just scraping away….
Frame has a coat of primer..









Might take a day or two….chipbreaker is really pitted up…screw holes in the wood body are about worn out…OEM ones aren't holding anything….


----------



## DLK

6 years ago I discovered Don W's forum: "Show the restoration befor and after" forum and decided I must find a plane to restore just give it a try. It was this one:








I restored it: 








and I was hooked. Not only on restoration, but once I learned how to sharpen I was hooked on hand tools. Although I have a complete set of Stanley Bench planes minus a #1 and #2. I am partial to MF and have an 8,9,10,14c and 22. I use the number 10 all the time, in particular it is a great shooting plane. I put a hock blade in the 14c and it has become a pretty good general purpose plane. I can't seem to land a MF 18. Very hard to find one you can afford.


----------



## BrandonW

I'm sure they work fine, but Millers Falls lack the beautiful castings you find in these old Baileys.


----------



## HokieKen

I had a harder time finding an 11 and a 15 than an 18 Don. 18s aren't exactly plentiful but they usually sell at reasonable prices. I paid less than $50 for my type 2 and it was complete and in pretty good shape.


----------



## bandit571

Trying to decide IF this one is worth saving….









The Keel of this boat looks a bit worn…so does the Stern….









At least the Figurehead on the Bow looks good..









Tried the 2 finger Test for flat….went with just 1 finger up on the Bow…the "before" 









Just sitting there…Port side a little rough…then the finger on the Bow..









A single fingertip, sitting right above the Eagle….

May try the Stanley No. 8, and plane towards the Stern….grain willing….and try to get the sole flat….otherwise, I have a No. 28 that could use a few parts….

Will also have to glue some plugs into the holes where the screws go…

We'll see….stay tuned..


----------



## Karda

is this plane for collection or a user


----------



## anneb3

Time vs need vs want ? your call


----------



## donwilwol

> Trying to decide IF this one is worth saving….
> 
> - bandit571


Take a 1/4" off each side, add a 1/4" slab of nice cherry.
Take the bottom off just below the "31". Add a nice slab of hard maple.

You save the logo.
You've tricked out a cool tranny.


----------



## bandit571

Don't have the 1/4" "nice Cherry". I did take the wood base to the shop…got out Heft&Hubris…









Working from the "Bow" towards the stern….









Until a straight edge showed I had the sole flat…..then worked on getting the sides almost square to the sole…as some people think that is a requirement..love to see a shooting board a 24" long plane could use….but, anyway..









"Starboard" side….until it showed square to sole…then the port side….









There is a "dead zone" in the stern…









extends into the sole…and down the side…









I don't think I could glue anything here, and have the glue actually stick…let alone hold onto something…so










I'm letting a heavy coat of BLO soak into the wood,,,,hopefully to close up a few cracks….

Ironworks were given a decent coat of black paint…the iron has also shattered while flattening the back,,,Luckily I do have a spare,,,,Intend to get a wood dowel about the right size, and fill all the screw holes…then re-drill new holes….whatever size Wall E World sells…not really picky…


----------



## Karda

good job


----------



## 33706

Bandit, as you know I got a collection of Transitionals, some are solid users, some are awaiting restoration, others have been put through a rehabilitation/ refurbishment.

There is a point of no return, when a wooden sole isn't worth bringing back. If the hardware is really nice, I just make a new sole out of beech. Then you can have some fun, experimenting with different woods, knob and tote placement (on Liberty Bells), and whatever you want in a 'new' transitional.

Like this one: 







*

It used to be a #32, now it's a #34++, with a sole of 35 inches. This was a fun restoration!
*


----------



## donwilwol

24" of Edwin Hahn getting it done. This thing works awesome! Edwin Hahn #14.
.


----------



## HokieKen

That's a beauty Don! Never heard of Edwin Hahn.


----------



## donwilwol

> That s a beauty Don! Never heard of Edwin Hahn.
> 
> - HokieKen


Edwin Hahn bought Siegleys equipment and stock when Stanley bought Siegley. Hans are almost identical to a Siegley.


----------



## Mosquito

Sexy E Hahn Don, I like it. 
The main thing between that and a Siegley is the leading edge of the lever cap being adjustable


----------



## corelz125

Nice big heavy iron jointer now you got me star struck Don. Kenny you have to broaden your horizons past the MFs


----------



## bandit571

Reason I rarely work in the shop on a Monday….
Installed the 3/8" dowels..









Went to remove the base from the vise….came out in 2 pieces…grrrr…glue and clamp time…









Broke right at the mouth….good thing I have a "spare" No. 31..









Will see how the glue turns out…TUESDAY. can use the parts from the No. 31 to get a No. 28 up and running…









Same width iron….nose art is a bit different..









And at the front of the frame…









Teach me for working on a Monday….


----------



## Karda

is it worth it


----------



## DLK

It's always worth it. There is always the joy of doing.


----------



## Karda

true, also the urge to see if it can be done


----------



## BlasterStumps

I still have the No 2 Edwin Hahn. Cool old plane.










I brought out the MF 22C and stuck it up on the tool board. Looks good up there. Might leave it up for a bit.


----------



## Karda

it looks like it belongs there


----------



## tshiker

Blaster, can we see more of that No 2?


----------



## HokieKen

> Nice big heavy iron jointer now you got me star struck Don. Kenny you have to broaden your horizons past the MFs
> 
> - corelz125


I have the attention span of a 5 year old and the budget of a 12 year old. I better stick within my limits ;-)


----------



## BlasterStumps

DonW, that 14 is a beauty. That is a good find.

tshiker, Here are a couple more pics of the E. Hahn No. 2:


----------



## donwilwol

That 2 is in awesome shape!!

I found the #14 cleaning a corner in my shop.

Here is a Sargent Transitional I did a couple years ago


----------



## theoldfart

Don, total rebirth on that plane. Quite nice.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Yes, very nice work Don.


----------



## rad457

Kinda makes me ashamed to show my stuff Gotta figure out how to distract the wife as somehow 6 more planes are going to show up at the door? Late night low bids on Flea-Bay can get costly and now potential hazardous to my health!


----------



## bandit571

I had just sharpened the iron on the Sargent..









Sargent #3416….









Haven't returned to the shop, today….had to deliver a pair of saws about 45 miles from my house….Chuck's Sharpening Service now has them….might have them done a week from the Friday….


----------



## corelz125

That's some no 2 you have there blaster thats a thing of beauty. Couldn't turn that one into a parts donor Don? Looks great though.


----------



## tshiker

Beautiful plane Blaster! Thanks for posting it!


----------



## tshiker

Here is a picture of my, what I believe to be, Siegley #3 type1 adjustable throat smoothing plane. This plane differs from the one pictured in Mr Rumpf's book Plane makers of W.B. PA in that the lever cap does not have adjusting set screws and it does not have the typical arch design on so many Siegley planes. That being said, I believe this plane to be all original and might predate the design change for the cap. If anyone can shed some light on this, it would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## BlasterStumps

tshiker, my Siegley has that name on each side of the casting next to the tote. The E. Hahn also has the name there as well. Other than that, the name appears on the top of the cutter I believe. Your plane is interesting for sure. Maybe the shape of the knob is a clue. Your's might be a Hahn plane. Does it have a lateral adjuster?


----------



## corelz125

With a little luck you can get one of these less popular brands for a good price Kenny. Get a newspaper route and save your tip money for some planes. I wish that would still work now like it did when I was a kid.


----------



## bandit571

Broken wood body repaired..









"Whut repair?"


----------



## ac0rn

> With a little luck you can get one of these less popular brands for a good price Kenny. Get a newspaper route and save your tip money for some planes. I wish that would still work now like it did when I was a kid.
> 
> - corelz125


Yes, I agree. At 12 years old, the tips from a 54 paper route (The Morning Call, and then the Paterson Evening News) did quite a bit. Then there was always bottle collecting for returns, 2 cents for the 12 oz, and a nickel for quarts.


----------



## rad457

> With a little luck you can get one of these less popular brands for a good price Kenny. Get a newspaper route and save your tip money for some planes. I wish that would still work now like it did when I was a kid.
> 
> - corelz125


Kenny is on the road, just bought a Hog and a Hoget the the better half


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, just ticked one off the bucket list and bought myself and my wife new (to us) bikes. Won't be any planes headed this way anytime soon! I sure ain't complaining though


----------



## Bstrom

Found this British mini plane in a vintage store recently - not more than 2" long.


----------



## bandit571

Ok….Frame has been installed back onto the 31's base…everything lines up…everything tightened down…there is a problem….even with a the OEM frog…can NOT retract the iron enough….way to heavy of a cut….place the iron/chipbreaker over into the #28….works like a charm….something strange going on…

Since I already have a decent 31 in use, and all the #28 needed was the iron/chipbreaker assembly….Shop now has a decent #28 plane…

Strange….


----------



## drsurfrat

There was a comment about a month ago about mismatched chipbreaker dimensions, but i can't find it. It was an image of three chipbreakers, and they had different dimensions to the adjustor slot. I can't remember which three makers/models they were. It's not in "Handplanes of your dreams v2" or "Show the restoration before and after" threads, but I will keep looking.

Or, is the yoke turned around on the #31 frog? highly unlikely….


----------



## corelz125

That thread was about Sargent chip breakers. Search Sargent chip breaker and it should come up. I cant remember the actual name or who started it.


----------



## HokieKen

Here it is drsurfrat:

https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/309028


----------



## drsurfrat

Well, of course it is *from* bandit…


----------



## bandit571

I tried 2 Stanley chipbreakers with that #31…...same results….cannot retract the iron enough. As for the picture of the 3 …..Millers Falls, Stanley, and Sargent….









Not sure….as I tried the chipbreaker in my Stanley #28…..worked just fine….I took the iron/chipbreaker out of the other Stanley #31…slipped it into the "new" 31….wheel was run up as far as it could go….still a 1/16 sticking out through the sole…..and, I know I did not plane that much off of the sole…..

Well, anyway…I still have a very usable #31 ( the same one in my avatar) and a usable #28 Fore plane…..will keep the latest #31's parts handy….just in case.

Need to clear off the bench, have a project coming up…..









Sure to be a few planes used….


----------



## bandit571

Ok…a pair of No. 31s…









And the frogs seem to be the same….bodies are the same thickness..









Yet the iron/chipbreaker on the left plane, will not work on the right plane. The iron that WAS in the rehabbed plane, does work nicely in the Stanley 28..









Hmmm….also have a plane to sharpen up..at a later date..









An Ohio No. 035….with a thick, tapered iron….


----------



## donwilwol

> Here is a picture of my, what I believe to be, Siegley #3 type1 adjustable throat smoothing plane. This plane differs from the one pictured in Mr Rumpf s book Plane makers of W.B. PA in that the lever cap does not have adjusting set screws and it does not have the typical arch design on so many Siegley planes. That being said, I believe this plane to be all original and might predate the design change for the cap. If anyone can shed some light on this, it would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> - tshiker


I've got a type 1 but it's missing the blade and cap. I haven't seen a siegley cap like this before. An interesting piece.


----------



## DLK

I have repaired a 31 once and had the same trouble. Finally discovered that the pin that secured the yoke was replaced with a pin that bent making the yoke not engage with the iron. You might try installing a thicker pin to raise the yoke up a wee bit.


----------



## donwilwol

I've found with some planes, if there is enough play in the yoke mechanism, you have to pull up on the blade before you snap the lever cap down. Otherwise the blade starts to low and the yoke will not pull it back up.


----------



## 33706

This may not be the situation here, but I'd like to suggest: Chipbreakers are not compatible between iron Stanley planes, and Transitional Stanley planes. On Stanley all-metal planes, the distance between the front edge to the yoke engagement hole measures about 4 inches. Transitionals measure 4 3/4 inches, due to the fact that the frog sits higher and further away from the cutting edge. I've seen chipbreakers with crudely hacked secondary holes so that one type could be used on another. Just my two cents.


----------



## bandit571

For some reason, that chipbreaker worked in the Stanley No. 28….but NOT in the Stanley 31? Strange…

4 planes in use, today….









Stanley #45 set up as a 1/4" plough plane, and..









A 1/2" plough….then.









Stanley 71-1/2 to level the bottom of the 1/2" wide grooves…









WR #62….smooth plane? Or?









Well, that was 3 planes…what about the 4th?









Trying to hide back there in the noodles…Stanley 60-1/2…..
Was a busy morning…


----------



## bandit571

So…where do I stash the wood bodied Stanleys…









Well, I still have that old saw til sitting around, might as well put it to work…


----------



## bandit571

Gave 2 other planes a bit of work, today..









Just a little #3….trying to smooth things up….after the tearout machine…









Then, the big guy got some work…leveling things up..









Millers Falls No. 15…."just a little off the top.." 
Maybe a bit of Jointer work?









Then…flatten a panel…









Worked very nicely…..but,it is a LOAD to carry around…

Busy afternoon…


----------



## bigblockyeti

I don't know if this would be a "dream" for anyone or not but someone close by could get a decent deal if the plane is complete.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/3191310264301126


----------



## Peteybadboy

Can someone tell me more about this #7?
What type? What value? Thanks in advance


----------



## Peteybadboy




----------



## bandit571

Hyperkitten site has a Time Line chart to use…..


----------



## KentInOttawa

There are many Stanley plane "type studies" available on the internet. Here's one of the main ones that I use (Hyperkitten). A web search will reveal plenty of others. Different studies are easier or harder to use, but they are all based on pretty much the same info.

I believe that this plane is a Type 8 or 9 from about 1899-1907. Seeing more details like the lateral adjuster would make it easier to tell. HTH.


----------



## drsurfrat

Heres a quick reference:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yl6kkfcuyxzejkc/Stanley%20Bailey%20Bench%20Planes%20Type%20Sheet.pdf?dl=0
Other unseen differences will be in casting marks on the bed and lever cap, (dot, S or B) and wether the brass depth adjuster has right or left handed threads.
These parts are all swappable with other types to some extent, but for a user it doesn't matter.
The average *sold* price on eBay for type 6a-8 is around $123


----------



## Lazyman

I've been lusting for a scraper plane. Anyone have any opinions of #12 vs. 12 1/2 veneer scrapers? Do they work well and is there any performance difference with the wood sole on the 12 1/2 assuming the sole is in good shape? OR should I look at another model?


----------



## rad457

I ve been lusting for a scraper plane. Anyone have any opinions of #12 vs. 12 1/2 veneer scrapers? Do they work well and is there any performance difference with the wood sole on the 12 1/2 assuming the sole is in good shape? OR should I look at another model?

- Lazyman
[/QUOTE]

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/scrapers/48431-veritas-scraping-plane?item=05P2901

This is the one I picked up, before the old stuff started geting more appealling


----------



## drsurfrat

Lazyman, (still like the sig)

You did ask for opinions…
I have one of each, and a No 81. I haven't used them since the last time i make something with pine, I usually just grab a card scraper for local area work, and sand the rest. You could borrow mine if you were closer. The 81 is really heavy, stout blade holder, and has a rosewood bottom.










I also would prefer (but don't have) 112 instead, I like the idea of pushing, and the handles on 12 style aren't comfortable for my personal preference. Kunz was making a reasonable copy for a while, also called a 112. Still are - $129 on amazon


----------



## ac0rn

Modified #12, always within easy reach.


----------



## Peteybadboy

lazy man,

I have a 12 that I can part with. I really don't know prices, but would also need to pay shipping. I don't use it. Some pitting. I am in s/w fla. I have been thinking of putting it on ebay. I also have a no 80


----------



## Peteybadboy

Sorry for not knowing what photos to post for my n0 7

It says on the frog L Baileys Patent Ded 24 1867.

Here is the lateral adjuster it says STANLEY (no date)


----------



## drsurfrat

So far it's all consistent as a type 6a. (ca 1892) The lateral adj lever *should* have 3 patent stamps (76, 84, 88).

Is the brass wheel right or left hand threaded, and is there circular text in the recess of the 1" brass wheel? All this is available online, but you do need to learn the names of the parts, none are obvious. The pic you gave us is the chipbreaker, also known as the cap iron. the blade is known as the iron… and down we go

here: https://www.wonkeedonkeetools.co.uk/woodworking-hand-planes/what-are-the-parts-of-a-standard-metal-hand-plane


----------



## Peteybadboy

drsurfrat,

Thanks for your patience. The lateral adj says Stanley it has Pat 2,3,76 and ?C 2194 724 86 (very hard to read)

The 1" brass wheel is RH thread there is text in the wheel is says Patent Aug 6 1867


----------



## drsurfrat

It seems you have the Columbian 400th anniversary type. (6a, ca. 1892)

No patience necessary, I like puzzles, maybe you learned something interesting.


----------



## Peteybadboy

drurfrat,

This has been a learning experience, It's like solving a crime! I plan to put it to use then sell it to someone that will use it as well.

Many thanks for your help.


----------



## donwilwol

I started practicing some hand plane welding. This isn't my first success, but it's a little better than the last one.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I like the color too. Nice work Don!


----------



## drsurfrat

And your photography is as impressive as your handwork.


----------



## theoldfart

Looks good Don.


----------



## HokieKen

I have a #12 and like it a lot Nathan. I use it often. Also have a #80 that gets a good workout. A 112 is on my wishlist but I'll likely go with a Veritas instead of vintage for that one. The prices that vintage ones routinely bring on Ebay are way too high for my tastes.


----------



## Lazyman

Thanks Kenny. I just let Pete know that I'll buy his. The 12 1/2 with its rosewood sole really appeals to me too but I decided that the 12 was good enough for a user. I was also a little worried that without being able to see it first hand, there could be issues with the sole. A 112 or equivalent would be nice down the road too. Anyone ever tried the butt ugly Kunz 112? Not quite as nice a finish as the Veritas but I read somewhere (Paul Sellers maybe?) that they actually work well enough.


----------



## Skatergirl46

I tuned up my old #8 today to flatten out this slab. It's working great.


----------



## corelz125

Don what did you use to weld it? Nothing better than a #8 in action.


----------



## donwilwol

A stick welder with nickel rod. After some research it seems that's the best way as long as you can go slow And have patience. I don't have a history of patience, so it'll be a test for sure. Here are two more I've done


----------



## Peteybadboy

Thanks to Drsurfrat I now know I have a type 6a #7 Stanley jointer.

It is now real clean, and sharp. I put it to use yesterday. Cleaned up the #4 and used it as well. The #12 is clean, I have not tried it yet, Same with the #80. All flee market finds from back in the late 80's and 90's mostly CT and NY flee markets. The #7 was a CL buy down here in Fla about 8 years ago. My #45 was from a church auction in Westchester NY.


----------



## corelz125

That's a Sargent 507? You pre and post heated? I was thinking of trying .035 flux cored wire. I can get a smaller and tighter bead and less heat than 3/32 rod.


----------



## rad457

Quick clean and another #5 ready to join the herd


----------



## rad457

A #110 showed up as well, not much work required on this one


----------



## donwilwol

> That s a Sargent 507? You pre and post heated? I was thinking of trying .035 flux cored wire. I can get a smaller and tighter bead and less heat than 3/32 rod.
> 
> - corelz125


Yes, it's a 507. Pre heated. After welding I buried it in ashes. I don't think I got the crack lined up right so if I grind it back I'll have a thin spot. I used a stick with nickel rid. I only have a stick welder. It seems there is discussions for which is better, and no clear winner. Ills keep trying as I find them.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Wow Don, that's really cool that you are welding broken cast. I like. You will be the go-to guy real soon.


----------



## DanKrager

Don, I've been "studying" welding of various sorts and have followed a very active welder's group. I may branch out to more groups that might be of different, more helpful nature. LJ has spoiled me for group knowledge sharing.

I'll use my TIG torch for the first time pretty soon and wondered if that process would be more conducive to small cast welding. IMU, one can tack without adding metal and then proceed to add the compatible metal of choice to finish the bond. TIG welders can be very inexpensive. I picked up a combo machine, stick-TIG-plasma cutting for about $400. Sure it's made in Asia but the reviews of this were rave and I can confirm that it works reliably. I learned the basics of stick in a classroom using a $1500 Lincon multiprocess and that experience transferred easily to this machine. Not gonna ever be certifiable (in welding !!!) but my fugly welds have held some pretty strained steel using the tricky 6013.

Do we need a metalworking thread for woodworkers?

DanK


----------



## bandit571

Maybe go ask Dave at Chisel & Forge how he do his repairs…..and even watch the video of when he repaired a Millers Falls No. 14 I sent him….


----------



## corelz125

It only takes a little bit of weld to really hold if you get good penetration doesn't have to be pretty. Any metal melting process will hold a plane together mig, tig, brazing, or stick. They don't really support a load. The true cast iron welding wire stick or flux core is expensive. I think is the biggest challenge trying to keep the plane straight and flat. Don have any temp sticks?


----------



## donwilwol

https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/311427

I started a separate welding thread.


----------



## corelz125

The talk about scrapers this one insisted I bring it home.


----------



## DLK

Nice.


----------



## donwilwol

Nice score. You going to make a blade


----------



## corelz125

More than likely Don W. I have some others that need a blade also.


----------



## rad457

M.F. 75 finally came, rough box, but plane is new! The #14 arrived but going to need some work. Couple dozen more M.F.s and might catch up to Kenny L.V. had only one 2" PMV-11 iron but for some reason I have 4 new #5 planes that are in need


----------



## HokieKen

Have you tried the MF irons Andre? They're pretty good IMO. And if you have a pile of old MF irons somewhere that you've replaced, I can give them a good home ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Nice score Corelz! I like my #12 a lot. Being able to adjust the angle is awfully handy 

Speaking of making blades, anybody ever made a toothing blade for a cabinet scraper? I don't recall ever having seen a shopmade one. I would like to have one but I ain't never seen one for sale that I even considered. Damn things are pricey…


----------



## donwilwol

> More than likely Don W. I have some others that need a blade also.
> 
> - corelz125


----------



## donwilwol

dup….


----------



## rad457

> Have you tried the MF irons Andre? They re pretty good IMO. And if you have a pile of old MF irons somewhere that you ve replaced, I can give them a good home ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


The #8, 9 & 10 irons are good, but this #14 iron has some real bad rust pitting so it may get the PMV-11 blade, but I also have 2 more Stanley # 5 and a Winchester #5  plan was to make one of the Baileys into a scrub plane with the Veritas Iron. Funny when the Iron cost more than the plane?


----------



## sansoo22

Took the hot summer months off from restoring since I don't have AC in my shop. Now its super nice and dry out. Time to slog through this line up before it gets cold out.

Earliest is a Type 5 no 6 and the latest is the No 8 Type 19 with a variety of types and sizes in between.


----------



## corelz125

Have your hands full for a little while there sansoo.


----------



## controlfreak

Sansoo, I am looking for a No. 8 so give me a shout out if it is not committed elsewhere.


----------



## rad457

The Winchester #5 cleaned enough and ready to join the herd, just the M.F.s and another Bailey left to get back on the shelf/bench! 
Before








After


----------



## BlasterStumps

I just spent about a half hour or more taking out some small nicks in my PMV-11 blade for the jack. Big dummy me hit a couple of pin nails. Not just once either. : (. Not fun. Did I mention that I hates pin nails.


----------



## Peteybadboy

I was told to hone a chip breaker. Should I do this?


----------



## sansoo22

> I was told to hone a chip breaker. Should I do this?
> 
> - Peteybadboy


I hone the leading edge of my chip breakers to 8000 and then strop them. I don't know if it helps all that much but it does provide me with much tighter curls coming off the wood. Some of them wind up so tight they look like little wooden hand rolled cigarettes.










Not super easy to see but chip breaker and secondary bevel both fully polished to mirror finish.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't go as far as Sansoo but I do grind them to a knife edge and polish the face up. I stop around 600-1000 grit though. It does make a difference with smoothers in particular.


----------



## Peteybadboy

Thanks I will try honing the chip breaker


----------



## drsurfrat

Th reason to hone the chipbreaker is so that it sheds the chips instead of getting them stuck under the lip. Small imperfections will catch chips, and make sure that it is *undercut* so the leading edge is what makes contact with the iron or the whole thing will clog with chips (I know). 
Also, hone it so that it is flat and even across the whole iron. 
I don't think chips care whether it is 1000 grit or 8000, but there is beauty in a mirror finish.


----------



## DLK

It is absolutely necessary that the edge of the chipbreaker meeting the iron be honed flat so that there are no gaps where it meet the iron. This keeps shavings chips from getting under it. You might also considering getting this side of the iron where it meets the chip breaker flat too. However I think perhaps you are asking about the top side of the chip breaker. I polish this side and make it steeper where it meets the iron. Note it is soft metal and not hardened, so it doesn't take much to do this. With a vise you can also add some spring to the chip breaker so that under tension it meets tight on the iron.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…when the edge of a cap iron is more of a wall 1/8" tall..









Time to grind it a bit….









Now the shavings fly up out of there….









Think this just might work….


----------



## Johnny7

^ It appears you are confused about the naming conventions and purposes of the various plane parts.

The bevel-up block plane has no chipbreaker/cap iron. What you have done is sharpen the lever cap.
This has no effect whatsoever.


----------



## bandit571

I have no idea WHERE you get that from…but…WRONG..again, bucko..

There is NO lever…no lever cap….therefore..it IS a cap iron. No confusion here…sorry.

Hmmm, so, Einstein..what do YOU call the cap on a bevel up, low angle jack plane? Hmmmm, you don't say…..

Must have been "Magic" that caused the shavings to fly up out of the plane, then?

Cap iron..because it caps the iron….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ This kind of response is outta line. 2020 sucks already; don't need any of this in my life.


----------



## bandit571

Yep..me "Givasheet" meter kind of went off…tends to happen when I get called stupid….









Random Plane Picture….Stanley No. 4, Type 10…









Black tape was there when I bought it…wasn't about to mess with it….









This is the smooth sole version….


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, I didn't hear the word stupid till you said it. All I heard was I think your mistaken.

I'm with Smitty, we have had enough hair trigger responses this year. Let's think about what we're going to say before we type it it.


----------



## donwilwol

And it's a correct statement.The bevel-up block plane has no chipbreaker/cap iron.

Although that particular plane doesn't have an actual lever, it is still performing the same function. The bevel up being meant for end grain doesn't break chips.

Single iron planes like the autosets have a lever cap (maybe we should just stick with "cap") and chip breaker combined, but again, no lever.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I looked at the current Stanley site, and all similar block plane parts are referred to as Levers, whether they had levers or (as in the No. 110) not. FWIW.


----------



## DLK

Regardless it was the tone of the post that set Bandit off. Doesn't matter what he called it we knew what he met. However to say sharpenpening it had no effect whatsoever is apparently false as the pictures show. But he didn't sharpen it did he. With grinding he removed the wall so that the shavings would easily glide up and out as opposed to curling over and bind.


----------



## bandit571

I am still trying to find out how "new" that block plane is…and maybe get a matching iron from that era…..or, just keep the pre-1900 iron in it…..

I think the correct one has rectangle holes all the way through the iron. Old one just has those 1/2 moon shaped grooves….seems to work, though…

Will need to look up a few Stanley logos they stamped into plane irons….ok, the "J" trademark…from 1909 and before…still looking for the hole iron….all I have is the groovy ones….and a funny shaped PEXTO….


----------



## bandit571

Random plane picture…









Meet Junior! Millers Falls No. 11, Type 2….was giving it a workout this evening, while waiting on the clothes dryer to get done…









Needed these all the same "height"


----------



## HokieKen

Whether or not polishing up the edge on a lever cap has any effect or not has to do with how close it is set to the cutting edge IMO. If it's close enough that the chip can hang up on it then polishing it up makes good sense to me. However, I've never found a need to actually do it.


----------



## bandit571

I watched as most of the shavings simply shot out across the front of the plane…mostly to float down to the floor, before I could grab them….something must be working? Like when on a wood bodied, double iron plane…where the shaving will shoot straight up, before wrapping around my left wrist….must be something to cause that…

I do know that on my Stanley No. 60-1/2….the cap is beveled. I tune the underside to better sit on the iron…and polish the edge a bit….works nicely…..

Just trying to reduce any drag a shaving might get…on it's way out of the plane…..instead of just balling up in the plane.


----------



## donwilwol

A Stanley #12 base someone had painted an ugly green. Stripped it and repainted it. Turned a spalted maple handle and made a blade from an old crosscut saw.


----------



## Lazyman

Stanley #13 minus 1? I've still gotta get me one of those.


----------



## donwilwol

> Stanley #13 minus 1? I ve still gotta get me one of those.
> 
> - Lazyman


Opps


----------



## donwilwol

> Stanley #13 minus 1? I ve still gotta get me one of those.
> 
> - Lazyman


It's available

https://www.facebook.com/groups/CanIHaveItToolAuctions/permalink/691371088397152/


----------



## bandit571

random Plane Photo….









Had to "shoot" an edge….









I guess these are just hiding out…..


----------



## BlasterStumps

That 12 looks real good Don. I like the spalted Maple handle. Very nice job.


----------



## HokieKen

Great work on that #12 Don. I like that handle.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ditto. Nice work, Yoda!


----------



## drsurfrat

Hey you Millers Falls guys, I just found these and thought they might be appreciated.



















The two drivers match, MF "No 676- 6 inch" They are almost 12 " long, with a full length tang
The iron is a larger width 2 3/8" (like the Stanley Not 7, 6 ,4 1/2). The pitting isn't just staining, but don't know how deep.

Anybody want them?


----------



## HokieKen

I don't "need" them but I can put them to work if nobody else speaks up drsurfrat


----------



## bandit571

Block plane was in use, today…among other toys..









Rounding over the edges of the box's top…









Inside corners, too..









Block plane for the outside edges….









Edges done..
Stanley No. 9-1/2…..


----------



## drsurfrat

Kenny, seems they're all yours. Just send me an address.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice of you, Mike!


----------



## HokieKen

PM sent Mike. Thanks for the generous offer


----------



## donwilwol

> PM sent Mike. Thanks for the generous offer
> 
> - HokieKen


Kenny gains momentum down the rabbit hole.

Mike averts a push down.


----------



## drsurfrat

^^^ That made me truly laugh out loud.

I have my own rabbit hole:


----------



## Peteybadboy

Drsurfrat,

I was wondering if someone collected every "type" in the # 7 plane. Do you have them all?


----------



## drsurfrat

no, but close. (horse shoes and hand grenades) I don't have the two obvious ones; type 1 from Leonard Bailey and the strange-frog type 3. Let me know if you want any details/pics. right now they are just sitting…


----------



## donwilwol

I had a full set of #4s at one time, with the exception of the type 1. I never did get a group picture. I keep the t-2 and 3, the rest I have sold.


----------



## Mosquito

And I've got the gamut of #45s, but no set of all types for a given bench plane. Full set of a few specific types of bench planes, but that's about it.

I hadn't bought a plane in so long… until today


----------



## bandit571

I have this mailing bag of nice Rosewood….and I am trying to remember which plane(s) needs a new handle….

Bench has been cleared of tools, for now. May give handle making a try….might even use the smaller cut-offs/scraps to repair a couple "hornless" totes…

Hmmm…the only drill bits I have that are long enough to drill all the way through….are a couple bits for a brace…might just work…#3 or, #4….


----------



## HokieKen

You buy a #50 Mos?


----------



## Mosquito

I should have Kenny


----------



## bandit571

Millers Falls No. 14…new tote has been rough cut…will try to drill it later….

This is a Type 3….WW2 era…one piece bolts ( blued, at that)....might be a bit tricky with the recessed top hole…there is none at the bottom…sits right on a raised platform.


----------



## Karda

you can do it


----------



## HokieKen

So what dod you buy Mos'? Inquiring minds want to know 

I got a spare iron and a couple of MF screwdrivers in the mail today. Thanks drsurfrat )


----------



## Mosquito

if I have to wait for it to show up, then so can you 

At some point, I have to make some more compact storage for the Fales parts… they take up a lot of space on the shelf at the moment, but that keeps it full, after a #46 found its way to you, and a #55 to Kevin lol


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, those Fales thingies are messin' up your display. Better get rid of 'em. My address is….....


----------



## bandit571

While waiting around for the new furnace to be installed…









made use of a scrap from roughing out another tote ( hiding batter there, behind the glue bottom…)

Will let this sit a day or so…then trim down….

Thinking about a brace and bit to drill the new tote…..I happen to have a couple sharp #3 bits ( 3/16")...trying to decide on which brace to use..size wise….6, 8, 10,12, or 14" sweeps….


----------



## drsurfrat

Kenny, That was quick, glad they will see some attention. They are easy to criticize, but I like the Post 
Office.


----------



## Mosquito

Haha, I tried to send them to you Kevin, but I… Fale'd. :-D


----------



## DanKrager

Well played, Mos. Well played.

DanK


----------



## Mosquito

practicing those dad jokes… any day now lol


----------



## theoldfart

Hehe


----------



## bandit571

Still having fun with Rosewood…









Awaiting a top coat….scrap came from cutoffs of..









That rough sawn handle blank….May turn (no lathe?) a new front knob….but, will just repair the horn on the Millers Falls/ Craftsman No. 14….may have a Stanley No. 5 in need of a new tote….will see how THAT goes along..


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Glad to see that rosewood being put to good use. 

Cheers!


----------



## bandit571

And..the Stanley No.5 ?









Also has "issues" 









Which I think I can correct,,,one other Stanley..









No. 4, Type 10….think it is about time for the tote to be replaced?

Drills….









#3 bits, and a #5 bit….3/16" and 5/16"...
have enough scraps..to repair a few broken horns…Stanley Jack will just need it's replaced, tote and all..









Should have enough for the #4 plane…too. 
Shaper?









Should be the right size drill bits in there, too…( #3 up to a #20)


----------



## Karda

looks like you have some fun laid out enjoy. Ive never don a tote but have done a couple saw handles. i like the rose wood


----------



## sansoo22

Was feeling left out from all of the fun. So I present, from left to right, a Marsh M4, Stanley No 4, and a Rockford R4


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Very nice!


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Another bedrock 605 -1/4 I can't afford: https://www.ebay.com/itm/313253048710
Sigh, 
Guess will never have one in my Bedrock user collection. 
Really like my regular 5-1/4.

Best Luck to those that can afford such luxuries.


----------



## BlasterStumps

But, but captain, it is a SW.

I have a war era 5 1/4 in my lineup of bench planes. Cool little plane actually. Probably came from a school shop.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Picture…









Type 2 Millers Falls No. 11…..same size as a Stanley No. 5-1/4

The No. 14 and the No. 15 look HUGE next to this one….


----------



## 33706

Just letting the herd air out their britches while I prepare a glass door cabinet for better, cleaner storage. Shelves open to the air just isn't feasible anymore. These are #7's and #8's.


----------



## Karda

do you use them all, thats a lot of work keeping them feed a proper wood diet


----------



## 33706

Karda,
Now that I'm retired, got my sandblaster, MIG welder, and other tools of the trade, I'm slowly getting to these. But first, it's my beloved transitionals that are getting reworked first. Finally, the luxury of time…


----------



## Karda

ok


----------



## KentInOttawa

> - poopiekat


Wow, that's more iron than many home gyms have! Please tell us more about them as you clean them up.


----------



## drsurfrat

OK, I'm not so embarrassed to have so many of one size, or, well, at least I'm not alone.


----------



## Mosquito

That's why I keep mine separated


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm..









Hmmm….









Hmmmmmm..









Test fitted…









Then a bit of hand sanding ( like polishing a shoe…) and a coat of BLO..









Put the rest of the parts on the plane…









And let it sit overnight. Stanley No. 5 Jack plane….Look any better?


----------



## Karda

outstanding job on the tote, I do have a question about all the planes, do they breed, how can i get my #3and #5 to multiply like that


----------



## theoldfart

^ Money!


----------



## 33706

> OK, I m not so embarrassed to have so many of one size, or, well, at least I m not alone.
> 
> - drsurfrat


Yep, that's where I was going, surfrat!! Glad you posted pics of your herd a day ago!!


----------



## 33706

> That s why I keep mine separated
> 
> - Mosquito


I think that's why they call it a *"rabbit hole"*


----------



## ac0rn

poopiekat- "Finally, the luxury of time…" I'm not so sure about the luxury of time. When we were working full time, the yard was well kept, house was mostly clean, children's activities were constant, the to do list…we got everything done. 
Now with retirement we have clutter, the yard is never really done, the to do list just gets bigger. Are we coming or going. May need to go back to work for a rest. Nah that is not a good idea. :>)


----------



## 33706

> poopiekat- "Finally, the luxury of time…" I m not so sure about the luxury of time. When we were working full time, the yard was well kept, house was mostly clean, children s activities were constant, the to do list…we got everything done.
> Now with retirement we have clutter, the yard is never really done, the to do list just gets bigger. Are we coming or going. May need to go back to work for a rest. Nah that is not a good idea. :>)
> 
> - Jeff


*Jeff. *
I've got the same tankful of gas in my truck since July, haven't filled up since. We don't go anywhere hardly at all. I have had to manage my time differently, but the unstructured free-form of retired life is unbeatable. And, yes, I've tackled some outdoor projects that I never could get to before, like a just-finished fence and gate. I'm up to seven hours a day in the shop, where before the hour and a half was simply stealing time from other things that had to get done.


----------



## Karda

ok


----------



## bandit571

Yard sales, Estate Sales, Barn Sales, then the Antique stores and malls…..I wasn't in any sort of rush…just sometimes I will go out on a Rust Hunt…..

However…once they do decide to start showing up…it soon becomes hard to know when to say.."When"....sometimes, it is a bit too hard to just simply set the plane back on that table..and walk away…


----------



## Karda

fortunately I have some obstacles to rust hunting mainly I can't drive other wise I would be more broke than i am now, I am however looking for a reasonable Stanley or equivalent #4. Sometimes I draft my wife.


----------



## bandit571

Springfield/Harmony, OH….corner of I-70 & US 40…..Heart of Ohio Antique Center….


----------



## bandit571

2 hours in the shop, today…result?









Taped up handle has been replace…









One coat of BLO, so far….plane is a Stanley No.4, Type 10…..wondering IF I should work on that knob a bit..









New one? or just refinish this one?


----------



## KentInOttawa

> fortunately I have some obstacles to rust hunting mainly I can t drive other wise I would be more broke than i am now, I am however looking for a reasonable Stanley or equivalent #4. Sometimes I draft my wife.
> 
> - Karda


Since my accident, I don't drive either. On the one hand, it saves me a lot of money because of all the Kijiji schtuff that I can't chase down, but the eBay fees and shipping costs make up for it. I don't recruit the wife very often because then she'll get an idea of how much I do spend. ;-)


----------



## corelz125

Nice assortment Sansoo. How many #8s are there poopiekat? All Stanley's?


----------



## Karda

nice tote bandit, I am for a new knob out of the same wood if possible. My wife don't care how much I spend as long as its not from the household budget. But what I can spend isn't that much anyway


----------



## bandit571

Low knob has been refinished, now. Also..









That Craftsman Jack plane in the background??









This was it's front knob…WAS..









That be the new knob….with the tote being repaired, too..









Tote has been shaped, and re-installed, and a coat of BLO on both handles..









Came with the one-piece Craftsman Lever cap, even the iron is stamped "CRAFTSMAN".....otherwise, just another Millers Falls No. 14….made for Sears…letting the handles cure…


----------



## Karda

good job


----------



## controlfreak

Was thinking about a router sled to flatten my benchtop. Then night before last I woke up at 3:00 AM and thought "I am going to do it with a plane". Last night I took my $25 Stanley Bailey #5 and went to town on the bottom side of the top. It was the most fun I have had in a while.


----------



## drsurfrat

panoramic mode of Stanley No 4s









Knobs starting with type 2

.
I was trying to take interesting pictures of planes in my rabbit hole, and look what i found:
.








.
The type 20 No 4 that I have is about 3/8" longer than *every* other No4. Why, after 100 years, would you add length to this plane casting?


----------



## DonBroussard

drsurfrat-Those pictures are calendar-worthy. I especially like the one with the line-up of front knobs. BTW, I'm no help on the question of the extra 3/8" on the Type 20 No. 4.


----------



## drsurfrat

Thanks, my iPhone seems to have a really good low-light camera. I can't really tell the difference with my dSLR except for the field of view.

Just a curiosity, it's weirdness like this that has OCD people making type studies to begin with.


----------



## Mosquito

Love it Mike. I like comparative photos an analysis like that. It was fun when I did something similar between a Stanley Type 11, a Keen Kutter KK series, and a Post-Stanley-Pre-Refresh Siegly No. 7


----------



## Karda

I finally got my #4, they are both late models but they are in good shape, just need clean up and minor rust removal. both have the kidney bean shape slot on the lever cap. The one on the right have a folded lateral adjusting lever. The block plane is a 9 1/2. again not a lot to do but it has some scratches on the movable part of the sole


----------



## drsurfrat

Karda - you really can't lose, either you have fun cleaning up the planes, or they are almost ready to go, and you have fun using them. Out of curiosity, is the sole of the folded lever model 91/4" long, or 9 5/8" tip-to-tip?

Mos - did you 'publish' it here? [I got the dr because I couldn't *stop* doing analyses..  .]


----------



## Mosquito

I did in this thread, but it might have been long enough ago that it could even be in the part 1 thread lol


----------



## Karda

tip to tip it measures 9.75. In the cross reference chart I have from Virginia Tool works a #4 is 9 inches why the extra 3/4s also the stanley on the lever cap is on a yellow field why the folded lever


----------



## Mosquito

For the record, nowhere NEAR as easy as Smitty makes it look...


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

What's this? Mos has a No. 444??


----------



## Mosquito

All but the no. 4 spur block, and boxes. Just got here today and sharpened the irons with the angles they had already and gave it a shot, but will set up to check those angles when I can get back out there again.

First run with it was tricky… Groove wasn't terrible, but I think I made the neck too thick (or depth too deep), as the tail board had clipped corners (too thin for the widest part of the tail). Also getting it to cut consistently when making the tail board was the hardest part of the whole thing for me


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Awesome, welcome to the club!

Yeah, I never have come off the theory that using the tool is a trial and error during setup; the graduations on the fence Depth Gauge Stop were only suggestions… i should revisit and do a second video…


----------



## Mosquito

The depth for the groove for me was dead on what I set and what I was aiming for (1/2"), I just aimed wrong lol

And had I not got the 444, I probably would have been unhealthily tempted by a Mayos Patent plow lol. Been hunting a 444 for around 5 or 6 years, finally found the right deal for me, so pretty excited to break my no tool purchased streak


----------



## DanKrager

Welcome to the 444 club, Mos, as Smitty has said. You'll be surprised at how many times you will find this useful. I have a pair of cloth gloves that I use it with so my salty skin oil doesn't deteriorate the near pristine nickel plate on mine. I don't know what more to do to preserve that plating. Any ideas anyone?

Once you get the feels and know what to expect, the thing can be surprisingly accurate. I made some auxiliary wooden fences to extend the range of small sizes that can be done. I've found it useful to assist the scoring with a utility knife every other stroke on difficult woods. Perhaps I'm cutting too much in a pass?

And I wonder about sizes of dovetail cross sections and their relative strengths. I'm of the mind that a shorter wider tail is stronger up to the point of strength limits of the mating socket shoulders. Like tenons, there must be an optimal "average" ratio of length (depth?) to width, but I'd have no idea just what that is.

DanK


----------



## drsurfrat

> tip to tip it measures 9.75. In the cross reference chart I have from Virginia Tool works a #4 is 9 inches why the extra 3/4s also the stanley on the lever cap is on a yellow field why the folded lever
> 
> - Karda


I think :
The 9 inches was the nominal length from toe to edge of sole, without that handle tab.
The yellow was the marketing change in the late 1960s to their modern bumble bee yellow and black.
The folded lever is just cheaper to manufacture than the pressed 2 part lever.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Love it Mike. I like comparative photos an analysis like that. It was fun when I did something similar between a Stanley Type 11, a Keen Kutter KK series, and a Post-Stanley-Pre-Refresh Siegly No. 7
> 
> - Mosquito





> I did in this thread, but it might have been long enough ago that it could even be in the part 1 thread lol
> 
> - Mosquito


Found it.
Edit: Part 1, page 920 (My GoogleFoo is strong this morning)


----------



## Mosquito

haha, nice Kent. Not quite what I was referencing, but it brought back some good memories! That was our plane-a-day count-up? We were marching through Stanley bench plane numbers, and posting our sets of that particular number  Good times


----------



## drsurfrat

It seems that this is the best thread for this pamphlet link. I pdf'd the one above. There is no date, unfortunately, and no copyright, fortunately.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/84pv26lqjvtf3nt/Stanley%20Plane%20Pamphlet.pdf?dl=0

Two interesting things at the very least. Pg 5 has the elusive description of the No.6 "fore" plane. Pg 12 has replacement parts; you could get a No2 replacement iron for $1.20.


----------



## Mosquito

Woof. I started at the end (Page 1079) of the Part 1 thread, and worked my way backwards, and finally found it on page 911: https://www.lumberjocks.com/replies/on/1348188/page/911
https://www.lumberjocks.com/replies/1180777
https://www.lumberjocks.com/replies/1180865

And a later quick compare of the #4's
https://www.lumberjocks.com/replies/2140898

Also, in the 178 pages of fun, I came across a lot of good memories, some bad memories, a bunch of calendar stuff, and this Gem from 'Stef that made me chuckle (Smitty's call signal)


----------



## sansoo22

Nothing as fun as a #444…just a Type 18 #3 ready to go back to work. This little guy is headed to Sweden soon as a Christmas gift. Yes its already that time of year to start gift planning.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Edit: Part 1, page 920 (My GoogleFoo is strong this morning)
> 
> - Kent


Okay - so my Googlefoo is more like a proximity weapon.


----------



## corelz125

Mos where's the 444 pics. They are a must see.


----------



## Karda

what is the difference between a 444 and a #4, they look the same to me


----------



## corelz125

> what is the difference between a 444 and a #4, they look the same to me
> 
> - Karda


About $700


----------



## Karda

ook but mechanically what is the difference, are they 2 different planes or the same plane with 2 different numbers


----------



## Mosquito

definitely nowhere near the same plane. #4 is a smoother, #444 is for mangling dovetail shaped dadoes in an otherwise undeserving board.

And is kicking my @^&%& at the moment


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Karda, here's a No. 444.










And what it cuts.










Mos, you signaled?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> haha, nice Kent. Not quite what I was referencing, but it brought back some good memories! That was our plane-a-day count-up? We were marching through Stanley bench plane numbers, and posting our sets of that particular number  Good times
> 
> - Mosquito


That was a great time, the count of plane numbers from 1 to 608! So cool, and a bunch of participants too!


----------



## Karda

ok thanks


----------



## bandit571

"Feeling Groovy.." 









gave the old G. Roseboom a work out…









Shavings curl right up, and exit out the right side…









Near as I can find out, plane was made in Cincinnati, OH. in 1864….new iron, new wedges (Walnut) and a new Maple tote…..only thing I don't like about it….no depth stop…


----------



## corelz125

I'm working on completing a 444 just missing the 5/16 spur block and could use a new set of snickers.


----------



## Mosquito

That's the one for the #7 iron right? That's the one do I have, but missing the one for the #4 iron. We can just trade when we need to use the other one  lol

After some self reflection, dash of general analysis, a change of wood, and much fiddling I managed to get some decent results tonight. Took two tries at the tail, but I'll take it










I see why the booklet says to use two battens and set them up before cutting anything instead of one at a time. You more or less have to remove the fence and subsequent depth stop setting to get the next batten set up if you don't.










The line down the middle was a small bit left behind that I decided to clear with the router plane, but didn't take multiple passes, so it kinda tore out a bit










But the show side was a nice fit










On the back, I think I rocked the plane back on the entry and it cut more depth there than I should have. Maybe also drifted away from the correct line on this end of the groove too? Not quite sure










Shoulders are pretty good though










And square, or near enough










Overall, I guess I'll keep it lol


----------



## Karda

nice work better than Mine. so far I have the pieces cut for a small box. I have only cut one dovetail and that didn't work out well. I plan to start cutting the tails but keep getting distracted some day


----------



## Karda

here my brood. they are breeding. Fro right to left: MF 814 scrub, my first plane. Stanley #5 type12. Stanley #4 type 19, Sargent Hercules #4 equivalent also scrub, Stanley #3 type 19. Block planes are front Stanley from big box, front side Stanley 60 1/2 from bandit side top Stanley 9 1/2


----------



## Mosquito

don't forget the one in the back photo bombing, wouldn't want it to feel left out ;-) Off to a good start, I've got the Keen Kutter equivalent of the old 9-1/2's, and it's probably the favorite block plane out of what I've got tuned up and sharp in my collection.


----------



## Karda

no photo boming that is a Stanley #4 type 20 I am going to sell that one, I don't need 2 #4s. I sharpened up the blade on the #4 and got the finest shavings I ever have, I think its due to the honing jig I bought. I would have tried the 9 1/2 but I can't get the adjuster to move the blade right I either have it to far out or it won't retract totaly


----------



## controlfreak

Plane photo bombing, now that $hit is funny.
My No. 8 arrives today, can't wait!


----------



## donwilwol

I seen "I don't need 2 #4s. Someone has found a cure??


----------



## HokieKen

Yes Don. Instead of 2 #4s, you can have a #4 and a #4C. Or a #4 and a MF#9. Or a #604. Or any combination therein.


----------



## drsurfrat

Oh, silly me, I read "I don't need 2 *more* #4s."


----------



## Karda

well I didn't mean it the way it sounded, I don't need 2 post war #4s. I would like a pre war #4 but not now


----------



## sansoo22

> Yes Don. Instead of 2 #4s, you can have a #4 and a #4C. Or a #4 and a MF#9. Or a #604. Or any combination therein.
> 
> - HokieKen


So I'm good to go with a Marsh M4, Rockford R4, Stanley #4, and a 604? We can just pretend the duplicates of those don't exist.


----------



## drsurfrat

Or a No 104, or a Chapin's, or a Chapin's Improved…


----------



## bandit571

Does this include "Parts Planes?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Don't forget the S4 (pictured here next to the S5):


----------



## bandit571

No. 3 sized?









There is a Craftsman Millers Falls still in the til…and the No. 4 sized…









Well, at least the users, anyway….


----------



## DanKrager

Every end of these rack partitions has a full tail that was cut with a #444. The perimeter tails were "tilted" at 45° so they fit into the perimeter frame. IIRC, the long pieces run downhill to the left. The short partitions run downhill to the right They were pushed in from the back into a stopped tail dado cut with a small router bit. Fitting was tedious but worth the effort. I told the customer he could park his work truck on it--that strong! Used a Masonite template to be sure all was kosher and it slid right into the cabinet cavity with paper clearance all around except bottom. Glad I didn't have to take it out though!



















DanK


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Dan, that sounds like a lot of work lol


----------



## corelz125

Mos some one actually made a copy of the #4 spur block for me just the holes on it aren't tapped yet. Very nice work Dan. Nice drsurfrat do any of them have the rubber tote?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice cuts by dan and mos!


----------



## drsurfrat

The Chaplin's Improved does, and the casting says No 1205, not the usual convention.










DanK and Mos - your long sliding dovetails are neater than my simple box dovetails. I need to up my game.


----------



## HokieKen

> Mos some one actually made a copy of the #4 spur block for me just the holes on it aren t tapped yet. Very nice work Dan. Nice drsurfrat do any of them have the rubber tote?
> 
> - corelz125


What's a #4 Spur Block? Just curious


----------



## Mosquito

Holds a spur for cutting the dovetail groove when using the #4 or #7 irons on the #444 (one spur block for each width iron). The narrowest iron only uses the plane body, as they're the same width and you engage the second spur for that one


----------



## HokieKen

Ahhhh. Gotcha. I think I'm just gonna stick with the tailed router for sliding dovetails ;-)


----------



## corelz125

They look pretty good Mos. You seemed to get them down pretty quick. Kenny think you can make one of them?


----------



## HokieKen

One of the spur blocks? Should be able to if I had one to copy.


----------



## Mosquito

I was thinking about that last night, I'm not sure they'd even have to be as shapely as the OEM ones to eject the shavings and what not. It's basically just a spacer to hold a spur, with a little added flair for shavings ejection

Thanks corelz, I'm a LONG way from getting them down, I've just managed to luck in to some early success so far I think lol


----------



## corelz125

I think the bevel on the bottom and one end is the important parts the rest might not matter. Smitty would know best. I can send a #4 spur block to copy. Mos got that close first few tries it should only get better.


----------



## Mosquito

it took a step back from poplar to pine, I might get brave over the weekend and try poplar again, and see how that goes lol


----------



## HokieKen

Y'all just let me know if you need some made. I looked at some pics and it doesn't seem like anything too hard. Seems the radius and bevel on the end are compound angles but as long as I had one to set up off of, that shouldn't be an issue.

And don't be in any big hurry. But Mos' knows that ))


----------



## corelz125

Kenny I had this plane for a few years now i'm not in any type of rush. The screws are some of those wonderful Stanley oddball threads. I think one is an 8-34 the other measured .175 28 tpi. I'll send it to you.


----------



## sansoo22

First attempt painting the logo on a lever cap. This one had some pitting that wouldn't quite polish out so no big loss if I screwed it up. I think it came out really well myself.

Model Masters Go Mango Orange and a set of "nail painting" brushes. I assume the brushes are what they use at nail salons but not entirely sure.

Also sorry if the image colors are off a bit. For one that lever cap is stupid shiny and two I got a new phone today and not used to its camera yet.


----------



## Karda

it sill looks good


----------



## Mosquito

Third shot at it. This time I tried tail first, because I was lazy and that was already set up from last time. Don't think I'll do that again lol. Easier to tweak the tail a little more to get it to fit, so had to switch back after doing the groove to take a few more passes on the tail anyway.










Also, forgot to change irons when I switched to the groove on the first push or two lol


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny I had this plane for a few years now i m not in any type of rush. The screws are some of those wonderful Stanley oddball threads. I think one is an 8-34 the other measured .175 28 tpi. I ll send it to you.
> 
> - corelz125


Sorry Corelz, I don't have any of those oddball size taps. I could machine the rest and drill the holes for those threads but unless I could find someone who has the odd taps I could borrow, you'd be on your own there…


----------



## corelz125

I have the size Mos needs can you copy it to a thicker version?


----------



## Mosquito

the threads wouldn't be as important to me as long as they fit through the holes in the plane. I can grab measurements of the one I have (If I wasn't still trying to get the plane figured out I'd send it over to you lol)


----------



## sansoo22

Added a few new breeds to the herd today. From left to right is a Keen Kutter KK8, a Miller Falls #14, a Van Camp No 4 (never even heard of this one), and a Keen Kutter K3. Disregard that Stanley block plane. It came free with the Miller Falls.










A buddy of mine went by a tool auction today that I didn't have time to get to. He swung by the shop on his way home to see if I wanted anything. He made his money back plus a little extra for being such a nice guy.


----------



## corelz125

Nice #8 there. Gonna keep that one? Nice group he got you.


----------



## Mosquito

I need to finish cleaning up my KK8. It's sharp, but pretty ugly lol. Not sure what it's life was like before my stewardship, but almost looks like it was used to plane wet paint lol


----------



## drsurfrat

Wow, that is a good buddy, the auction came to you. And the knob on the 110 will also fit a 140.


----------



## sansoo22

> Nice #8 there. Gonna keep that one? Nice group he got you.
> 
> - corelz125


I'm going to restore it and see how I like it. Chip breaker and iron are very thick compared to a Stanley. Kind of curious how it cuts.



> Wow, that is a good buddy, the auction came to you. And the knob on the 110 will also fit a 140.
> 
> - drsurfrat


He bought so many his wife was going to be upset when he got home. Its a kind of buyers remorse I guess. He had a KK7 and a really nice K4 i almost bought but I don't even have room for these in the shop. Figured I'd show some form of self control.


----------



## tshiker

The K3 is really a Bedrock!


----------



## Karda

thats a pleasant surprise


----------



## Mosquito

Sansoo the kk series cut fantastically with the thick irons. Also, you can use Lie-Nielsen/Wood River replacement irons if you want, without having to modify it like you would a Stanley (I have the LN replacement IBC irons in 3 or 4 of mine)


----------



## donwilwol

You may find this useful for that #8. https://www.timetestedtools.net/2020/09/03/sharpening-and-setting-an-early-ohio-tools-hand-plane/


----------



## drsurfrat

I had a Revonoc jack plane for a while, it had an iron that was a wedge; normal thickness at the top, but double or more at the cutting edge. Should have kept that.


----------



## sansoo22

Mos - Let's hope I don't like it too much. Not sure the wallet wants to go down the road of collecting a full set of KK planes.

Don - Thanks for that link. I would have completely biffed the initial setup without that.

drsurfrat - My buddy who I got these from picked up a Revonoc #5 yesterday to go with his #6 and #8 sizes.


----------



## corelz125

Mos you have only the KK series or some of the K's also? There's always some place to store more planes.


----------



## Mosquito

I only kept my KK series planes, I had two K series (4 and 5), but decided to stick with the KK and my Stanley type 11s.


----------



## Karda

are the Ks the brand or initials for a brand, what is the difference


----------



## Mosquito

Keen Kutter is the name brand for both, k vs kk is more like a type/source manufacturer. They didn't make their own, the KK series was earlier and manufactured by Ohio, the K series was manufactured by Stanley using their earlier round sided bedrock patterns, after they had switched to their square sided, I believe


----------



## Karda

ok thanks just wondered


----------



## Mosquito

One of the traits of the Ohio made KK series is a much thicker tapered iron, more like a wood plane might have. The extra mass is nice


----------



## corelz125

Any noticeable difference in performance between the kk and k?


----------



## Mosquito

I mean, sharp set up and tuned is sharp set up and tuned 

But I do like being able to run a .140" thick iron without modifications, as I haven't even considered chatter since outfitting them with IBC blades

I think the #3 required me to use the stock chipbreaker as the holes for depth adjuster engagement didn't match up, but because it was designed for thicker irons, the chipbreaker screw was long enough to handle it

I think right now I have 3, 5-1/2, 6, and 8 with IBC irons


----------



## HokieKen

If you guys can send me one of your spur blocks and if you can measure the holes in the plane Mos', I'm sure I can find a suitable thread size that you can use common screws with. As far as "copying it to a thicker version" Corelz, just let me know which dimension needs to be thicker.


----------



## HokieKen

> Added a few new breeds to the herd today. From left to right is a Keen Kutter KK8, a Miller Falls #14, a Van Camp No 4 (never even heard of this one), and a Keen Kutter K3. Disregard that Stanley block plane. It came free with the Miller Falls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A buddy of mine went by a tool auction today that I didn t have time to get to. He swung by the shop on his way home to see if I wanted anything. He made his money back plus a little extra for being such a nice guy.
> 
> - sansoo22


Can you guess which one I like best?


----------



## bandit571

Left to right….No. 11, No. 14, and a No. 15









Just a set of jack planes…


----------



## sansoo22

> Can you guess which one I like best?
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


I wouldn't get too excited. Its a Type 4. Its a really clean Type 4 and I would say by the time Stanley quit caring about quality Miller Falls was still producing very nice tools.


----------



## HokieKen

Nothing wrong with type 4s IMO. They still had the 3-point lever caps and brass hardware. The solid depth adjuster nuts don't look as nice as the recessed ones but they aren't bad. I'm not a fan of the black frogs but they work just as well as the red ones. The wood can sometimes be really ugly-orangey but the one you have doesn't look too bad.


----------



## sansoo22

Im missing a Miller Falls from my planes I'm keeping as collectors. Instead of trying to go all in on a full set of Stanley's I found I like having one or two examples from all the manufactures/clones out there. I would like a Type 2 MF like the #9 I stupidly sold this winter but for now this will do.

Maybe some day I will complete my full set of Stanley's with orange frogs. I have #2, #3, and #4 with orange frogs and those made the wallet weep for awhile. It may still be a little depressed from it.

So far I have Miller Falls, Keen Kutter, Van Camp, Stanley, Marsh, and Rockford with so MANY left to go.


----------



## bandit571

Dupli-colour Paint pen….cardinal RED seems to be about the right shade….has a tiny paint brush in the lid, brush/flood the low areas….polish the high spots..done.


----------



## HokieKen

You can make any Stanley have an orange frog ;-)

Any particular size you want in type 2? I have a spare #14 but I can't recall what type it is. I'll look when I get home tonight. It's in a sad state but it's complete and solid. I just haven't ever gotten around to giving it any TLC…


----------



## sansoo22

> You can make any Stanley have an orange frog ;-)
> 
> Any particular size you want in type 2? I have a spare #14 but I can t recall what type it is. I ll look when I get home tonight. It s in a sad state but it s complete and solid. I just haven t ever gotten around to giving it any TLC…
> 
> - HokieKen


Awesome. No particular size really. I'm trying to stay in the smoother and jack range for the collection. TLC with planes seems to be a new found specialty of mine. Sometimes the uglier it is the harder I work on it.



> Dupli-colour Paint pen….cardinal RED seems to be about the right shade….has a tiny paint brush in the lid, brush/flood the low areas….polish the high spots..done.
> 
> - bandit571


Thanks Bandit! I did the same procedure with the Stanley lever cap i just did. Flooding the low spots in a couple places and spreading/brushing the paint around worked way better than I thought it would. I will get online and look for that paint pen. I really appreciate it.


----------



## HokieKen

Sansoo, forgot this the other night…



















Sorry, T3 not T2. Also sans knob and a busted tote make it a bastard only a mother could love. I'll get around to giving her some love one day though


----------



## bandit571

Hmm…like this one?









Millers Falls made for Sears jack plane…T2


----------



## rad457

Monkey See and Monkey Get You Guy's are a really BAD influence!
















A #82 Scraper might be in the shop soon


----------



## DanKrager

Happy to help any way we can, Andre. Nice. Just really nice!

DanK


----------



## sansoo22

Does anyone know what the proper primary bevel on an iron from an Ohio or Keen Kutter KK series should be ground at? From the pics on Time Tested Tools it looks like its roughly a 15 deg angle. The KK8 I have is ground at 25 deg which doesn't seem right according to the link Don W posted earlier.


----------



## HokieKen

I finally found one of the elusive Millers Falls #9s with the clear yellow knob. Ha! It's even got a special lever cap on it


----------



## HokieKen

OOOOOH! And directly below that is a Millers Falls 43 that has Stanley Rule and Level Company stamped into it! The sellers are on a roll this week ;-p


----------



## sansoo22

Ha! I was just looking over ebay at some Stanley planes today and screaming at the monitor when stuff was clearly labeled wrong or the price was outlandish. Once i get so many parts for a specific type or size i like to hunt for cheap rusty planes to make one or two nice ones. So far coming up completely empty.


----------



## donwilwol

> Does anyone know what the proper primary bevel on an iron from an Ohio or Keen Kutter KK series should be ground at? From the pics on Time Tested Tools it looks like its roughly a 15 deg angle. The KK8 I have is ground at 25 deg which doesn t seem right according to the link Don W posted earlier.
> 
> - sansoo22


I'll try to remember to measure a couple I have here tomorrow. I started using whatever was on the blade and it usually works. It just needs to clear the back of the mouth.


----------



## HokieKen

Every BD plane I own gets ground to 25 degrees. Then I don't have to remember anything


----------



## bandit571

Jointing edges today…to do a few panel glue ups..









Working with Ash….Craftsman ( Millers Falls) jack, with brand new handles…might have it sharp enough..


----------



## corelz125

Kenny I bet you dont have that type with the clear yellow handle.


----------



## donwilwol

> Every BD plane I own gets ground to 25 degrees. Then I don't have to remember anything
> 
> - HokieKen


I do the same, but the taper on the blade changes the angle unless you change your rest.


----------



## bandit571

Raised panels yesterday…









Doing the Paul Sellers way, with a Stanley No. 4, Type 10….showing off it's new tote..









Going across the grain, to make a few bevels…









Flip the board over, and 2 other planes take over…









Wards(Stanley) No. 78 Master Quality to do 1/4"x 1/4" rebates….Stanley No. 60-1/2 to clean up, fine tune the fit, and add a small bevel where the panel meets the rail…
Back for more fun later today…


----------



## HokieKen

It was way too gorgeous here in VA for me to spend much time in the shop over the weekend. I couldn't bring myself to get off my hawg… I did spend a couple hours though and milled some blanks to size/skew/bevel for 3/4" blades for the #46 planes. Just need to grind a bevel in and heat treat and finish grind and they'll be ready to deploy


----------



## HokieKen

And I was just looking through my PMs for who the 4th one belongs to and couldn't find it. I know someone requested it. So hollar please…


----------



## HokieKen

Nevermind, found it tshiker


----------



## bandit571

Rebate clean up…









Auburn Tool Co. No. 181…..still works..

Kenny; there are currently three M-F No. 22 over on the Bay of Es, including a "Government " C model…...


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks for the heads up Bandit but I've filled that slot in the till. It's the elusive #24 for which I now search.


----------



## tshiker

Yup!


----------



## tshiker

Yup!


----------



## Mosquito

Looking good so far Kenny


----------



## HokieKen

The blades you loaned me to to copy made it go much faster than it would have gone if I were trying to take measurements and get the angles set right on the mill Mos


----------



## Mosquito

Copy and modify is always faster than trial and error from scratch lol


----------



## rad457

> Copy and modify is always faster than trial and error from scratch lol
> 
> - Mosquito


Been told that usually don't work when looking for a new Wife?


----------



## HokieKen

Sometimes compound angles are a hemorrhoid. It takes a good hour to get the head dead square to the table usually so I don't love tilting it. But, I guess that's what it's there for…









It works at least.









I'll usually hand grind bevels in but since I'm making several of these, what the hell.


----------



## sansoo22

It's practice for getting faster at setting the head back to 90. I mean 45 min is better than an hour right.

Good work on those Ken. You posses a skill set I wish I had.


----------



## Mosquito

Would angle blocks have worked as well? Curious if you could have done it with setting the vise angle and then using the angle blocks to hold the irons for the bevel? (I have no idea if that makes sense lol)


----------



## bandit571

Flattening a panel, this evening…









And..a random plane picture…









9-1/2….60-1/2…..No. 18….


----------



## bigblockyeti

> Sometimes compound angles are a hemorrhoid. It takes a good hour to get the head dead square to the table usually so I don't love tilting it. But, I guess that's what it's there for…
> 
> - HokieKen


When I was in school, we had 12 Bridgeports that saw alot of abuse from those learning how to use them. For those in more advanced classes, maintenance and adjustments became a big part of what we needed to be good at. It got to the point where two of us could tram in a mill in ~10 minutes. I'm quite sure I can't come close to that now.


----------



## HokieKen

> Would angle blocks have worked as well? Curious if you could have done it with setting the vise angle and then using the angle blocks to hold the irons for the bevel? (I have no idea if that makes sense lol)
> 
> - Mosquito


Like this? 









Works fine if the edge is square but with the skewed edge but when start rotating the blade a third angle comes into play from front to back. Initially I was going to try to handle that with blocks but it got too complex too fast and tilting the head was a much easier and more reliable way to go about it.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> When I was in school, we had 12 Bridgeports that saw alot of abuse from those learning how to use them. For those in more advanced classes, maintenance and adjustments became a big part of what we needed to be good at. It got to the point where two of us could tram in a mill in ~10 minutes. I m quite sure I can t come close to that now.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


I can tram a J-head Bridgeport in much faster than this little Rockport. Tightening the bolts that lock the column moves the angle considerably on this one. It's definitely a dance but I ain't complaining. I've come to really like this mill a whole lot


----------



## Mosquito

Yup, exactly that Kenny  The non-square edges was what had me questioning that too lol


----------



## HokieKen

Gettin' hard ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Winner winner chicken dinner


















It would have made a whole lot more sense to test the fit before I hardened the steel I guess. All's well that ends well though. I guess the sun shines on a dog's ass some days


----------



## corelz125

All of that is in your home shop Kenny or at work?


----------



## HokieKen

All at home Corelz.

All went well with heat treat  They're all hard, no burnt tips and no warpage. I'll temper and finish grind em later this week and send em on the way to their new homes.


----------



## bandit571

While using this Stanley No. 3c today..
.








Everything on it screams Type 11….except…it has a SW iron on board…









Worked on a couple dry fits today…


----------



## corelz125

Very nice set up you have.


----------



## sansoo22

This is what happens when you leave a paint scraper in your plane till with no adult supervision. Nine months later one of these shows up.

Actually I think its a Craftsman 3704BL but this one isnt marked with any logos. Just says 4 Edge, No 3740BL, and Patent Pending.


----------



## corelz125

I think Sargent made those sansoo


----------



## sansoo22

> I think Sargent made those sansoo
> 
> - corelz125


Thanks. I was having trouble tracking down who made it since I know Craftsman didnt actually make anything. I got it free and since i have a mid century modern house its now a decoration in the built in shelves in my living room.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Kenny, my hat is off to you bud, mighty fine looking blades you have made there.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ What he said.


----------



## sansoo22

A little No 3 going thru maple like butter. I'm calling this a type 11-1/2. It has a high knob, large depth adjuster, and sweetheart iron but at the same time has a type 11 frog and lever cap.


----------



## Mosquito

how many patent dates Sansoo?


----------



## sansoo22

Three patent dates on it Mos.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Mike and Smitty. They're almost ready to go. I tempered the blades last night. Then I used my fancy flat-grind holder (block of wood with rare earth magnets embedded and duct tape over top) to make sure the faces were flat and grind all the scale off.









I used the belt grinder to clean up the back end and the flat side too. But the beveled edge and the cutting bevel are pretty critical since they locate the iron in the plane and keep the edge presented properly so I cleaned those up on a diamond plate instead.









All that's left is to do the final sharpening. And that will be left for the new owners. My work here is done ;-)


----------



## Karda

nice work


----------



## tshiker

I can't wait! They look absolutely beautiful!!


----------



## donwilwol

> Then I used my fancy flat-grind holder (block of wood with rare earth magnets embedded and duct tape over top)
> 
> - HokieKen


Out of curiosity and the possibility I'll learn something, why not just use a magnet?


----------



## HokieKen

'Cause I had some 3/4" diameter rare earth magnets without a purpose and didn't want to buy a big one  Plus a block of wood won't get hot enough to burn your fingers and doesn't weigh much. Both can be real convenient when you've gotta remove a lot of metal. Really, I threw it together one day because I needed something "right now" and it's worked so well I've just kept on using it.


----------



## rad457

> Cause I had some 3/4" diameter rare earth magnets without a purpose and didn t want to buy a big one  Plus a block of wood won t get hot enough to burn your fingers and doesn t weigh much. Both can be real convenient when you ve gotta remove a lot of metal. Really, I threw it together one day because I needed something "right now" and it s worked so well I ve just kept on using it.
> 
> - HokieKen


Good idea! I usually use 2 sided tape on a wood block! Picked up a #82 Stanley Scraper and fingers got toasty just tryin to level out the edges on some sandpaper


----------



## Lazyman

Those blades look pretty sweet Kenny. I just got the tracking code for my 46. It should be here by Monday and ready for me to start procrastinating the refurb.

Does anyone have a link to a brochure or instructions for the 46?


----------



## HokieKen

Here's this one Nathan. Functionally, it's pretty much identical to the 45 as far as setup goes. The knickers slide up and down instead of rotating (much better design IMHO) but otherwise you set the skate and fence the same way and it has the same depth stop.


----------



## HokieKen

Guess who sucks.

Decided to sharpen my 3/4" blade for the 46 plane and test drive it. Took a great edge, seated in the plane nicely and plowed through some ash with ease. Much cleaner than tbe 45 and I didn't use knickers or the slitter. I was extremely happy.

Until I measured the groove…









Yep. About .080" too wide. Somebody did their three angle projection trig wrong. What a jackass. Those of you waiting on these blades, gimmie another week or so. Cant decide whether to grind the extra width off or just start over.

Grrrr.


----------



## rad457

LOL! Thanks Kenny, glad it's just not me


----------



## DanKrager

I'd sure grind to fit, Kenny. It won't take long. said the monkey when his tail caught in the lawn mower.

DanK


----------



## bandit571

In use, today…









Stanley No. 7c, Type 9….Jointing Ash for a lid…









Soon changed over to these 2….Stanley No. 6, T-10….Auburn No. 81, unknown"Type"..

















3 out of 4 boards…no gaps….got the 4 board panel glued up…

So I could should the fleet home…including the Craftsman No. 5 ( Millers Falls No. 14)....

Arms are sore, now….?


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I know Dan. It just seems painful after milling everything to tight tolerance to go back and grind the width to fit. Kinda like planing a board dead flat then resawing it to size with a hand saw…


----------



## DanKrager

Keep smiling, Ken. You're heart is well within tolerance, if not the steel!

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

LOL. Thanks Dan  It wasn't as much trouble as I had feared. A good ceramic belt on the grinder got all 4 where they needed to be. And they're still within .005" of nominal along the full length. I'm pretty awesome ;-P

I'll still be able to ship on Monday Mos. Tom, check your PM if you haven't already. I need your address.


----------



## Mosquito

even at .08 out it's better than the 3/4" iron I have now


----------



## Lazyman

My 46 showed up today. Wood handles are in excellent shape - no cracks.








Fence has some gouges in it but I don't think it needs replacing.










All of the thumb screws are there and turn freely. The rods were all stuck but a little penetrating oil and they all came apart.

Only problem I've seen is I'm going to need a new screw for one of the spurs.










Let the derusting begin!


----------



## bandit571

Lid panel was taken out of the clamps, today…









And the Craftsman Jack was put to use..









trying to get the lid flat…..


----------



## HokieKen

You're in luck Nathan. Just so happens I need a spur screw too and I have a metal lathe ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Random plane pictures for today…









Taking down a few high spots in an Ash lid…Stanley No. 3, Type 11….and..









Stanley No. 5-1/2 , Type 17 Jumbo Jack…..
Doing a bit of edge jointing….


----------



## HokieKen

My Jumbo Jack was in action tonight too Bandit. Not a Stanley though…









Jointing some glue line edges in Walnut and Mahogany for Christmas cutting boards.


----------



## Lazyman

Early Christmas present to myself. Sort of hand plane…
Before anyone else says it, yeah, I suck. When I was checking on the 46 shipping status on eBay Sunday, one of my saved searches popped up this sucker. It had one bid for about $23 and a buy it now price of $100 + tax and $9 shipping. Almost broke a finger hitting the BIN button.

It's missing 2 of the blades on the 3/4 and 9/16 holders and needs a de-grime and minor rust cleanup but otherwise in excellent shape. It looks to me like the blades may be interchangeable but I'll look for some or see if I can figure out how to make them myself.










I haven't had a chance to look yet but does anyone have any links or pointers on making one of these or a good source?


----------



## Karda

I give up what is it


----------



## Lazyman

Stanley 77 dowel maker.


----------



## theoldfart

Nathan, just for the record, you Suck!

Awesome get and I'm jealous of the extra cutters.


----------



## theoldfart

Nathan, just for the record, you Suck!

Awesome get and I'm jealous of the extra


----------



## sansoo22

I


> Nathan, just for the record, you Suck!
> 
> Awesome get and I'm jealous of the extra
> 
> - theoldfart


At that price I second the you suck part. Super jealous of that find Nathan.


----------



## DanKrager

Lazyman, I bought two dowel maker reproduction blades when they were on sale earlier this year and plan to turn some aluminum blocks to hold them. Wasn't going to go all fancy like the cast originals, just make them workable. It involves some internal threading, and some mill work but that's pretty straight forward.

And YOU SUCK! (Three makes it official, yes?)

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Yup!


----------



## HokieKen

Then 4 makes it eternally binding.

*YOU SUCK NATHAN*


----------



## HokieKen

More cutting board work. Way too much ripping to be all hand tool work but the planes (and me) are definitely getting a workout.









On the bench today are MF 07, MF9, MF15,Veritas LAJ and Stanley 9-1/2. I'm an equal opportunity user


----------



## Lazyman

> Then 4 makes it eternally binding.
> 
> *YOU SUCK NATHAN*
> 
> - HokieKen


I'm okay with that.


----------



## Peteybadboy

Lazyman,

That is funny.


----------



## Notw

Little bit off topic but I read a lot of articles on the first 4 planes you should buy, so i have a stanley block plane, stanley no 4, stanley No. 62 low angle jack plane and stanley no. 92 shoulder plane. But where do i go from there? I don't think i need something super long like a No. 7. I really enjoyed restoring my no 4 and block plane and would like to restore more.


----------



## controlfreak

I didn't need any planes when I bought them. Now I have too many to count. I will put in a vote for a No. 5 it is a good starter to get. They made a lot of them so the price is not too bad. I would get a long jointer at some point if you think you will be dimensioning longer stock. A Stanley 45 can be a lot of fun too.


----------



## sansoo22

> Little bit off topic but I read a lot of articles on the first 4 planes you should buy, so i have a stanley block plane, stanley no 4, stanley No. 62 low angle jack plane and stanley no. 92 shoulder plane. But where do i go from there? I don t think i need something super long like a No. 7. I really enjoyed restoring my no 4 and block plane and would like to restore more.
> 
> - Notw


That depends on the type of work you do. A #7 really isn't that big of a plane. Its quite useful as both a jointer and for flattening larger stock or glued panels. One of the planes I find I use more than I thought I would is a #5-1/4. If you enjoy restoring planes you will have your work cut out with one of those. They were offered pretty heavily to trade schools and many have not been loved correctly. You have a #62 but I might suggest a traditional #5 as well. You could put a very slight camber on the #5 and use it for heavy stock removal.

Other options are rabbeting planes like a #78. A #45 does a TON of fun stuff so toss that on the list. A #95 for making super crispy edges. A router plane like a 71 or 71-1/2 are useful.


----------



## rad457

Think you should try a #4 1/2 if you do any flattening at all? As for useful, a rabbit block like a L.N. 60 1/2 gets a lot of use but then again so does the #102


----------



## sansoo22

> Think you should try a #4 1/2 if you do any flattening at all? As for useful, a rabbit block like a L.N. 60 1/2 gets a lot of use but then again so does the #102
> 
> - Andre


I can't decide between the 102 and the 101. Sometimes I really want a very small plane for corner easing on small projects. The 102 seems to close in size to the 60-1/2 to me but I dont have either so maybe I'm wrong.


----------



## Notw

oh how did i forget my router plane, i have a Veritas router plane.


----------



## donwilwol

If I was to list the planes in the order I think I use them the most, (I'll give Stanley sizes, although many are not stanley, most actually) for bench planes it would be a #4, #4 1/2, #6, and #8. A good block and apron plane would be in that list somewhere.

I think you may also find as you develop skills, you will change habits over time.

Think about how you work, and when you think another plane would be beneficial.

"Need" is a tough word to define because in reality, a good block plane and a good smoother in the hands of someone with talent would probably suffice for all operations outside of specialty planes.


----------



## sansoo22

> ...for bench planes it would be a #4, #4 1/2, #6, and #8…
> 
> - Don W


A fellow #6 user! I knew there was a reason we got along Don. Well that and your website I use like all the time.


----------



## donwilwol

> ...for bench planes it would be a #4, #4 1/2, #6, and #8…
> 
> - Don W
> 
> A fellow #6 user! I knew there was a reason we got along Don. Well that and your website I use like all the time.
> 
> - sansoo22


I'll never understand the concept that the #6 is undesirable. It just doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## theoldfart

"I've never found this size plane useful. You Satan worshipers out there might find them a useful prop during your goat slicing schtick by placing three of them alongside each other. Just be sure that they all point toward New Britain so that the number "666" results. Or, you can do your impersonation of Satan surfin' a six as shown in the image (Blood&Gore is very fortunate to have this image as Satan grants very few photo-ops these days).'

Blame it on Patrick Leach


----------



## sansoo22

> Blame it on Patrick Leach
> 
> - theoldfart


LOL. Then can we blame Paul Sellers for all the negativity towards corrugated soles? Maybe I just dont have enough "skills" yet but if you handed me a smooth and corrugated plane that were properly setup and said take a few passes i couldnt tell you which was which.


----------



## controlfreak

> "I ve never found this size plane useful. You Satan worshipers out there might find them a useful prop during your goat slicing schtick by placing three of them alongside each other. Just be sure that they all point toward New Britain so that the number "666" results. Or, you can do your impersonation of Satan surfin a six as shown in the image (Blood&Gore is very fortunate to have this image as Satan grants very few photo-ops these days).
> 
> Blame it on Patrick Leach
> 
> - theoldfart


Now this is funny!


----------



## rad457

> Think you should try a #4 1/2 if you do any flattening at all? As for useful, a rabbit block like a L.N. 60 1/2 gets a lot of use but then again so does the #102
> 
> - Andre
> 
> I can t decide between the 102 and the 101. Sometimes I really want a very small plane for corner easing on small projects. The 102 seems to close in size to the 60-1/2 to me but I dont have either so maybe I m wrong.
> 
> - sansoo22


I have both my L.N. 60 1/2 which is the rabbit version and a stanley 60 1/2(PMV-11 iron) and really no comparison at all to the #102! Also have a Veritas apron plane which is almost same size as the #102 and has the PMV-11 iron which is why it's usually on the bench, but the L.N. brass 102 still has a nicer feel to it?
The 101 is called the Violin makers plane for a reason, pretty sure I will not be making any Violins and my paws a little to large
I am in the #6 camp, think my #7 has been used in the last 5 years at some time? different strokes for different folks come to think about it the #3 and #4 get more use than all other planes with the exception of the block types!


----------



## Karda

not only all the above but you will get to a point when you see a plane and you just have to have it. There is a rule that if you have an even number of planes you have to get another


----------



## Notw

So it looks like a No. 5 and then maybe a no 45, although all the parts of the 45 looks daunting in the beginning. Off to ebay to find a no. 5. Thanks for all the help and input


----------



## controlfreak

> not only all the above but you will get to a point when you see a plane and you just have to have it. There is a rule that if you have an even number of planes you have to get another
> 
> - Karda


I get this feeling like in the movie conspiracy theory where they track Mel Gibson because he must buy a copy of "Catcher in the Rye" every time he gets near a book shop. Only it's hand planes for me.


----------



## bandit571

Maybe a router plane?









To clean up after a chisel..


----------



## DLK

Definitely a router plane even better get two. Also get a stanley 50, not as scary as a 45 and you will use it more often.


----------



## KentInOttawa

I actually prefer my No 6 to a No 5 most of the time. I'm also surprised that nobody else suggested another No 4. I usually have one on my bench set up for smoothing and another one (or two) set up for rougher (scrub-ish) work.

I like the work done on the rail car roof, Kevin.

On a different note, my shop is coming along well. The walls are up and mostly sheathed, and the roof decking was started today. I'm loving the high ceilings.


----------



## Notw

> Maybe a router plane?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To clean up after a chisel..
> 
> - bandit571


I put that in my second post, forgot it in my first, i have a Veritas router plane


----------



## DLK

*Kent* I almost suggested another number 4. I have 9 smoothers ready to go. I use 5 or 6, depending on the job. 
These are size No. 4.5 (2) No. ,4(4) , No. 3(2) , and a razee which I use for ultra fine shaving. half are MF and half are Stanleys.

I use a scrub plane Stanley 40 and no. 5 1/2 to quickly remove lots of material.
I joint with a number 8. I have three number 7s I hardly use. And I do have a number 6.

I have 2 number 5s. One is a Miller Falls 14c with a hock iron and is very nice.

I now have a toothing plane for difficult grain. I see no need for a low angle jack plane.

I have a boat load more waiting to be restored.


----------



## rad457

Duh! #4s high angle, low angle and standard angle, thought that went with out sayin.
Router planes, at least a large and small/Medium!


----------



## Lazyman

> Lazyman, I bought two dowel maker reproduction blades when they were on sale earlier this year and plan to turn some aluminum blocks to hold them. Wasn t going to go all fancy like the cast originals, just make them workable. It involves some internal threading, and some mill work but that s pretty straight forward.
> 
> And YOU SUCK! (Three makes it official, yes?)
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Just an a sucky update…I found reproduction blades for the 77 at vintagetools.net for $35 each. Fortunately the shipping was free.


----------



## DanKrager

I think mine were in that ball park,* Lazyman.* The thing about getting old is one CRS, so it doesn't matter so much.!!!

DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Then 4 makes it eternally binding.
> 
> *YOU SUCK NATHAN*
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> I m okay with that.
> 
> - Lazyman


Yes, that is a huge suck in my book as well. Wow…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> I can't decide between the 102 and the 101. Sometimes I really want a very small plane for corner easing on small projects. The 102 seems to close in size to the 60-1/2 to me but I don't have either so maybe I'm wrong.
> 
> - sansoo22


Does it really need to be said? Get both.

Duh.

;-)


----------



## sansoo22

> Does it really need to be said? Get both.
> 
> Duh.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I think its safe to assume I will end up with both. And we may as well toss the rabbet block plane on the list of things I will end up with too…unless I happen to score a vintage 140 in the near future.


----------



## corelz125

Go for a Sargent 418 then you can avoid the satan worshipping


----------



## Mosquito

I would agree with getting both 102 and 101, and I'm not just saying that to be an enabler 

I have a 101 and I use it all the time, but I've also got a small vintage (can't remember what it is), that's similar in size to 102, and I use that most of the time I'm not using the 101. Occasionally I'll use a keen kutter 9-1/2 sized, but for probably 95% of my blockplane use, it's the 101 or 102 (sized).

One thing I really like about the 101, is that for me it's probably the easiest and most comfortable plane to push or pull, which is helpful when knocking off corners while holding a board


----------



## controlfreak

A Stanley No. 151 spoke shave arrived last night. The blade is a bit rough and I will need to de-rust and clean. Does anybody know what the proper bevel angle is supposed to be? I would hate to copy an incorrect angle only to need to re-hone again. Thanks.


----------



## HokieKen

There's a guy who takes MF33 blocks (Stanley 101 equivalent) and converts them to bench planes. Not sure how useful it would be. Would be a fun project though 


















Anyone have a Stanley 100-1/2? Seems interesting but I've never spotted one before.

CF, 25 degrees works well for me.


----------



## HokieKen

I think I might be in love. Who knew you could peel shavings like that across 3 different woods glued up END GRAIN ???? I can't believe I waited so long to get a LAJ!


----------



## sansoo22

> I have a 101 and I use it all the time, but I ve also got a small vintage (can t remember what it is), that s similar in size to 102, and I use that most of the time I m not using the 101. Occasionally I ll use a keen kutter 9-1/2 sized, but for probably 95% of my blockplane use, it s the 101 or 102 (sized).
> 
> - Mosquito


Thanks Mos. That was the kind of info I was looking for. I assume almost all plane sizes are useful. I just wanted to figure out what would get the most bang for my buck since I already have 9-1/2, 18, 60-1/2, and 65 block plane sizes. Sounds like the 101 first and then add in the 102.

And Mos you arent being the enabler. Kenny gets that honor. I've been trying to keep an LAJ out of the till but now I want to make an end grain cutting board just to have an excuse to buy one.


----------



## Lazyman

> Anyone have a Stanley 100-1/2? Seems interesting but I've never spotted one before.
> 
> - HokieKen


Have some model boat hulls to plane? Not sure that I have seen any planes with a convex sole both heel to toe and side to side.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I don't figure there were many made Nathan. Maybe chair makers use them? That's why I was curious if anyone had one. Wondering exactly what they get used for.


----------



## rad457

> Yeah, I don t figure there were many made Nathan. Maybe chair makers use them? That s why I was curious if anyone had one. Wondering exactly what they get used for.
> 
> - HokieKen


I was thinking about one for the the shoe horns I make? Maybe even for larger spoons?
Dang that L.A. Jacks gets me excited


----------



## BlasterStumps

Is that the replacement low angle jack Kenny?

I call mine the mother of all planes. It is amazing to use. 'Sept I cut some danged pin nails the other day and had to resharpen the blade. Not fun.


----------



## sansoo22

Three planes I recently rescued. All 3 were being used as glorified glue scrapers. Paid $90 for the set off marketplace. A later model #190 complete with unused nicker, a sweetheart #80 (i put the hock blade in it), and a practically unused Type 16 #4. I have no idea where the seller even got this thing from. Im guessing the #4 was once a very nice collectors plane but by the time I got it the mouth was clogged full of wood glue, the handles had glue fingerprints, and the whole thing was covered in some sort of over spray. I had to redo the handles on the #4 but the rest of the finishes are original. The iron has had a single (crooked) secondary bevel put on it. You can still see the factory grind past that.

All I know is the seller wanted money for a Veritas LAJ because its the best plane out there. I didn't stick around to argue.


----------



## HokieKen

I mailed one of the #46 blades I made to New York and one to Minnesota on Monday. Both were supposed to be delivered today. They are both currently in Minnesota… Pretty sure MN isn't on the way to NY? At least the one that is *supposed* to be in MN was delivered. Hopefully to the right address… Hopefully the one headed to NY will course-correct over the weekend.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice lot there Sansoo. I like my #80 a lot. It sees a ton of use. If you have the factory blade from it, I'd be interested in it. It works fine for me and it would be nice to have 4 edges instead of just 2


----------



## sansoo22

> Nice lot there Sansoo. I like my #80 a lot. It sees a ton of use. If you have the factory blade from it, I d be interested in it. It works fine for me and it would be nice to have 4 edges instead of just 2
> 
> - HokieKen


I still have it. Its not exactly square anymore…kind of leans to the right but if you want it PM me a mailing address and its yours.


----------



## rad457

Got me thinking about Lie Nielson planes, bought the #102 and the spoke shaves in Vancouver B.C. at a tool show, the #60 1/2 rabbit an hammer on line and the #212 from my "wood" guy who stocks some tools. Forgot the bench brush Thought the Hammer was $35.00 and was at a time I was making and using Wood Krenov planes, Wife saw the invoice, actually was $85.00, explains why I'm scared to actually use it.


----------



## HokieKen

This one Andre?









Funny thing is, that's the only LN thing I own.

Is it just me or do y'all's shavings end up behind you when you're planing? I don't know why I toss the plane up to throw the shavings over my shoulder. It's terribly inefficient when it comes to energy expenditure.


----------



## sansoo22

I have a trash can at the end of my bench near my face vise. Most the time I toss my shavings at it. They don't always make it but at least theyre close enough that cleanup isn't too bad.


----------



## HokieKen

Cleanup?


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I have a trash can at the end of my bench near my face vise. Most the time I toss my shavings at it. They don t always make it but at least theyre close enough that cleanup isn t too bad.
> 
> - sansoo22


Me too, more or less.


----------



## BlasterStumps

It's so dry here in western Co that the shavings stick to the plane, stick to my bench, stick to my hands, and stick to my clothes. I try to pull shavings away from the plane but then can't get them off my fingers so I usually just get them with the vacuum.


----------



## tshiker

I HATE when that happens!


> It s so dry here in western Co that the shavings stick to the plane, stick to my bench, stick to my hands, and stick to my clothes. I try to pull shavings away from the plane but then can t get them off my fingers so I usually just get them with the vacuum.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


----------



## rad457

Yup! looks just like mine Kenny! 
My Bench is set up so the stroke is right to left so most shavings end up at the end of the bench, then use a 2 1/2" hose from the D.C. and they end up in the separator garbage can, Easy Peasey  Well some end up in the tool well but it is usually so full of scraps they just fall out!


----------



## controlfreak

Funny seeing the No. 80 here. I was bidding on one last night but fell asleep. Oh well, there will be others.


----------



## bandit571

End of every shop session…









Sweep up the work areas, and then into the 35 gal. trash can…...when that is filled up, out to the firepit….


----------



## HokieKen

65-1/2 cleans up tge glue lines before the LAJ does the heavy lifting.


----------



## HokieKen

Seriously, this thing is the business!


----------



## sansoo22

Kenny you are being an enable right now. I'm currently looking at planes I can sell to fund one of these. I probably dont need 4 number 8s so maybe one can find a new home and I can buy this.


----------



## HokieKen

If one of those #8s was a Millers Falls #24, I could enable you a little more ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Speaking of Millers Falls equivalents, Oldtoolheaven.com is gone :-( That site was a very valuable resource for all things Millers Falls :-((


----------



## rad457

Not a #8 but a #82, so not a Hand plane either I guess


----------



## corelz125

Andre the 82 is sort of a scraper plane sorta kinda. What is that curved part you have there Andre? Made it by hand?


----------



## Lazyman

> Speaking of Millers Falls equivalents, Oldtoolheaven.com is gone :-( That site was a very valuable resource for all things Millers Falls :-((
> 
> - HokieKen


Don't forget the Wayback machine Kenny. Not sure everything is there but if you want to save anything this might give you a chance to get it.

Edit: Well that link didn't work because it has a link in a link so here it is raw
https://web.archive.org/web/20200517164618/http://oldtoolheaven.com/


----------



## rad457

> Andre the 82 is sort of a scraper plane sorta kinda. What is that curved part you have there Andre? Made it by hand?
> 
> - corelz125


Making a night stand for Grangirl #2, cutting a rebate for the drawer bottom, not so simple on the inside of a curve!


----------



## sansoo22

Could never find one of these in good shape at a fair price so I bought an ugly rusty one and restored it. First time doing a full restoration on a block plane but I think it turned out quite nice.


----------



## corelz125

Andre how about a 113 to get you started?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sansoo, that's incredible!!


----------



## rad457

> Andre how about a 113 to get you started?
> 
> - corelz125


LOL! Have bid on a few! Or maybe a #101 1/2? Bought too many M.F.s and Winchesters lately, tool budget depleted? Inside smooth enough, spoke shave, it is the groove that had to be cut out with a chisel after some deep marking gauge cuts. The Stanley 750 worked quite nicely

Sansoo, that plane looks better than any of my new ones! Re chromed or just polished?


----------



## Lazyman

Careful. I think I see a fingerprint on that block plane. 

Beautiful restore.


----------



## Lazyman

Need some advice on my 46 clean up. Any reason not to use brass wire wheels to remove rust and grime from the main body? I briefly used a small brass wire wheel on my Dremel to get into the engravings and didn't see it doing any damage but I thought I would ask before I do something I regret. Would one of the nylon filament wheels be better or worse? The wood handle is in such good shape that I don't want to soak it in anything or remove it, though on the base/skate most of the nickel is gone and it has the worst rust and I could soak just the base without affecting the handle.

I'm mostly looking for some dos and don'ts but a blog or other how to would be useful too (I've read Kenny's).


----------



## HokieKen

Brass wire wheel would be my method Nathan. If you were trying to save the Nickel, Nylon would be better. But that's a lot slower going.


----------



## HokieKen

That block plane is outstanding Sansoo!


----------



## corelz125

So you're one of the ones I'm up against for the Winchester? You have the Sargent made or the Stanley models?


----------



## KentInOttawa

I picked up a Sargent-made Winchester a while back. It was an unintentional bonus included in a lot purchase.



















It's currently packed away for the impending move to the new shop.


----------



## rad457

> So you re one of the ones I m up against for the Winchester? You have the Sargent made or the Stanley models?
> 
> - corelz125


Only have a couple, Stanley I do believe? The M.F.s have peaked my interest now, Thanks Kenny! 
Was always intrigued by there tools after touring the Winchester House a few years ago! The very first rifle I bought was a Model 94, still have it


----------



## sansoo22

> Sansoo, that plane looks better than any of my new ones! Re chromed or just polished?
> 
> - Andre


Sanded to 3000 wet and then polished on the buffer. Has a few faint scratches that didnt buff out but its old and those were pretty deep. I want to learn to do nickel plating but I don't have room in the shop at the moment and I still have a few things to figure out about proper disposal of the bath. This winter I plan to do a few small knobs and thumb screws as a test run. A fellow LJ member gifted me a 45 I want to nickel plate and make a new handle for.


----------



## corelz125

Thats a nice bonus Kent. Most of the winchesters I have are Sargents. Sansoo are you going to make any videos of the process of cleaning and polishing the planes?


----------



## Mosquito

> Speaking of Millers Falls equivalents, Oldtoolheaven.com is gone :-( That site was a very valuable resource for all things Millers Falls :-((
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> 
> 
> Don t forget the Wayback machine Kenny. Not sure everything is there but if you want to save anything this might give you a chance to get it.
> 
> Edit: Well that link didn t work because it has a link in a link so here it is raw
> https://web.archive.org/web/20200517164618/http://oldtoolheaven.com/
> 
> - Lazyman
Click to expand...

That's how I grabbed all the tooltrip.com stuff. If I had more time these days, I'd do the same for that one… though I haven't done anything with the tooltrip stuff other than squirrel it away on my file server so far lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Someone was asking about the 100 1/2 block recently?










Sorry, just getting to the shop for a pic.


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, curved sole?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yup. Front to back and side to side.


----------



## theoldfart

To create a hollow glue joint?


----------



## HokieKen

I figured either Kev or Smitty would come up with a pic of the 100-1/2 in action 

So, do you use it often Smitty? For what?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

As I recall, Stanley advertised it for model builders and fly rod making (but I'm not sure). Something about it also be a tool design recommended by a user of Stanley tools.

Honestly? I bought it to work down some swollen floorboards in my old house. It ended up not working well at all, so it sits in it's cubby and is awaiting another assignment.


----------



## DLK

Here is the description in the Stanley 1958 catalog 34.


----------



## HokieKen

And from Blood and Gore:


----------



## rad457

Came across this while on the L.V. site, and free shipping
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/57205-squirrel-tail-palm-planes?item=15P1020


----------



## DLK

Makes me want to build a model yacht.


----------



## bandit571

Random plane photo, from the past…









ala Leach. That be the Stanley No. 8c I had quite a few years ago…..


----------



## DLK

What "type" of Millers Falls planes are the prefered users? I just picked up my first type 4s and I like the depth adjustment knobs, they are solid.


----------



## bandit571

First four types are great…..do NOT get the type 5 ones (known to use phillips headed bolts…is one clue..)

As in the "V" line planes….


----------



## DLK

> First four types are great…..do NOT get the type 5 ones (known to use phillips headed bolts…is one clue..)
> 
> As in the "V" line planes….
> 
> - bandit571


 Thanks, my others are all type 1,2,or 3. I should really check exactly what I have.


----------



## HokieKen

What Bandit said. Types 2-4 are equal as far as usability IMO. Type ones look cool with the name cast around the knob but they lack the ribs under the knob which is a gottahaveit in my book. Type 5s pretty much suck. No 3 point lever cap and phillips head knob and tote screws are warning signs.


----------



## Karda

I have a MF 814 in other words a V line #5 size plane and I have a well tuned Stanley #5 no comparison the V line is a iron body with handles that cuts wood. The Stanley feels good in my hand from the firt time I took it out of the box, its a type 12. I use the 814 for a scrub plane and it isn't that great at that. I have 603 or 604 that does a much better job, might be the shape of the iron. Bottom line I won't buy a economy line plane. I don't know enough about planes to make them work. How ever I would buy Hercules


----------



## ac0rn

Spokeshave for today



















Perfect curls every time.
I prefer the vintage by Echo, I don't think Stanley made these. :>)


----------



## rad457

Not a #100 1/2 but do believe it will do the same thing?


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Not a #100 1/2 but do believe it will do the same thing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Andre


I'd noticed that Lee Valley had changed the colour of the small squirrel-tailed planes that they sold. The 100-clone that I bought a few years back was green, so I had assumed that it was made by Kunz. Apparently, the ones like yours being sold now are made in Canada. Is that colour cordovan, mark II?


----------



## rad457

Kent, guess that color is Cordovan? The blade attachment has also changed, the new style has a cogwheel screw from the bottom to hold in the blade, guess my Pic doesn't show that? I like the green color better I have the Kunz spoke shaves.


----------



## corelz125

Did a little fencing today. I don't know Kenny I think Stanley did better than Miller's Falls on this. Miller's falls just missing 1 piece.


----------



## theoldfart

The MF is easier to set up but the Stanley has a more substantive fence. I still joint freehand but beveled/angled faces are a snap with the fences.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> ...guess that color is Cordovan?


Nope. :-D



> The blade attachment has also changed, the new style has a cogwheel screw from the bottom to hold in the blade, guess my Pic doesn t show that? I like the green color better I have the Kunz spoke shaves.
> 
> - Andre


I just went back and looked at the listing again. I think I like the Little Victor cogwheel better as well as the fact that it has fewer parts to go missing, but I also prefer the green to the Cordovan-ish ********************e.


----------



## HokieKen

I have a MF jointing fence Corelz but I still have to make the hardware to set/lock the angle so haven't actually ever used it. Haven't ever used one at all actually so don't have a baseline for comparison in any case. I don't imagine it's something I'll use often anyway, probably just when I need to bevel an edge or when I joint really long edges for glue joints.


----------



## HokieKen

> Not a #100 1/2 but do believe it will do the same thing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Andre


I don't think it will do the same thing Andre. The 100-1/2 has a concave sole in both directions. So it could plane an arch or a cylinder.


----------



## corelz125

Kenny your missing the 2 pieces that clamp onto the plane? Kevin I can free hand a bevel pretty good sometimes it's just I need it straight and flat instead.


----------



## HokieKen

No, I'm missing the rod and the clamping screw in the center that lets the fence pivot then locks it down Corelz. RWE was good enough to post pics and detailed measurements of them for me. I just haven't gotten around to machining them yet.


----------



## HokieKen

Which piece is yours missing Corelz? I might be able to fix you up with it when I make the missing parts for mine.


----------



## rad457

*I don't think it will do the same thing Andre. The 100-1/2 has a convex sole in both directions. So it could plane an arch or a cylinder.

-Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!*

Actually it curves in both vectors, makes it kinda weird to use Honing the blade is interesting, radius a lot greater than my coopering plane.


----------



## corelz125

I'm missing the clamping screw too. First time I heard of one missing the rod that's the one part that is always there but I guess that's one of the easiest parts to remake.


----------



## rad457

Question, seeing all them fences and actually had the need for one a while back I picked up a Keen Kutter #55 at what I thought was a reasonable price off Flea bay. Same design as the M.F.s, but appeared in better shape.
Wondering why a Stanley would be $300 + and Millers Falls $200 + but the K.K. under a $100 ? (approx. cost U.S. to my door) Noticed it did not have any knobs, handles, are they required or actually useful?
This was after going to Lee Valley and looking at theirs when it became apparent that it will only work on the Veritas Planes, needs to be screwed onto the body.


----------



## sansoo22

I really like the front knob on my #386 fence. I hook my thumb on it and can use the rest of my hand as a guide to ensure the fence and plane are staying in contact with the stock correctly. I don't think its necessary to have a knob but I would definitely throw it in the very nice to have category.


----------



## bandit571

Methinks this might be a wee bit to big of a Jointer plane..









Craftsman #5 ( Millers Falls No. 14, type 3)....as the lumber is about 1/2" thick….may have to go with either a #3 or the M-F No. 11? Have a bunch of small glue ups the plane flat, too..









Some need it more than others…









Than others…









Will see how today's Snow Day turns out…


----------



## corelz125

The kk 55s are harder to find than the 386. The 386 has nice features but not necessary. They all accomplish the same thing. Pay more for the stanley because of the name. EC Stern's made a fence also they seem to be common.


----------



## bandit571

Random plane photo…









Millers Falls No. 11, Type 3…..


----------



## theoldfart

Can somebody post a pic of the KK fence?


----------



## Mosquito

this is the KK fence I have


----------



## corelz125

They seem very similar Miller's Falls might of made that for KK.


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, either E C Sterns or MF.


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, either EC Sterns or MF.


----------



## theoldfart

echo


----------



## tshiker

Mos, that's the same exact fence I have!


----------



## rad457

Mos, looks just like the one I got, well will see if and when it gets here Maybe Santa will put it in my stocking?


----------



## Mosquito

Truthfully, I got it for the same use as Kevin, bevels, but have yet to use it… Picked it up at an MWTCA swap meet several years ago now, and not entirely sure where it is at the moment :-/


----------



## HokieKen

All this talk of fences inspired me to finally make some hardware for mine!









2/3 done  Still have the thumb nut to make and she'll be in service.

Corelz, can you verify the thread size on your stem? I have all tbe diameter and length measurements but RWE was unsure of the thread pitch. I threaded mine 5/16-18 and I imagine that's what the original was. I'll make you a nut when I make mine but I'll need you to verify the diameter and putch of your threads if you can.


----------



## corelz125

Kenny I'll see if I can get that for you. Did MF use those odd ball threads like Stanley?


----------



## HokieKen

Not normally Corelz. MF threads are usually the more common pitches.

Let me know if you figure it out. I went ahead and made mine but left the bar and collet chuck on to do one for you.

I'm in business now


----------



## corelz125

That looks real nice Kenny


----------



## theoldfart

nicely done Kenny.


----------



## corelz125

The MF 88, EC Stearns, and the KK. They look very similar. Only difference the MF has holes for the knob. Kenny the threads are 5/16-24.


----------



## HokieKen

Good deal Corelz. PM me your address and I'll get you a knob.


----------



## sansoo22

i really really really wish I hadn't seen the Keen Kutter fence. My KK8 isn't even restored yet and I've decided it needs one of these to go with it. That logo in the fence speaks to my soul.


----------



## theoldfart

Sansoo, do you have the KK mitre box yet?


----------



## corelz125

Kevin what do you think Stearns made the fences?


----------



## theoldfart

I don't have a solid reason for thinking Stearns is the original manufacturer. I can't find a patent for the design. Miller's Falls has. Patent for a style that attaches to wooden planes but not for their metal one.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photo for today…









Actually…besides these being used, today….had others working..









And….


----------



## sansoo22

> Sansoo, do you have the KK mitre box yet?
> 
> - theoldfart


I don't own a single miter box yet. Mostly because I don't know enough about them yet to know if I'm looking at a good one or a whole I'm about to throw money in.


----------



## theoldfart

Sansoo, go over to the mitre box thread. The accumulated knowledge there should be all you need to get started down the rabbit hole. Most of the regulars there are willing answer questions and believe it or not, give their opinions! This includes me.


----------



## HokieKen

Dammit. I found a type 1 Millers Falls #18 on the bay. It's the only type 1 I've ever seen in that size. AND the price is reasonable :-( If I buy it though, I'll be stuck on the path of collecting a full set of type 1s. The problem? Type 1s are really cool because they have the Millers Falls name cast around the knob BUT they don't have ribs cast under the knob to prevent the knob from twisting. And those ribs are the main thing that prompted me to collect Millers Falls as users to begin with.

So it's not practical to replace my current stable with a set of type ones. Which would mean I would have to have a set in addition to my users. Which would make me a collector. And I'm not a collector!

First world problems… ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

I'm gonna spend a little time with my lathe today. I'll get Corelz knobs done for his fences and see about a screw for Kent's 140 plane. You thought I forgot about you didn't ya Kent ;-) It's barely been a year since you asked about it. Wonder why my wife can't be so silently patient? ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

Kenny, if you don't get it, then someone else might buy it to paint, so you better get it ;-)

You could approach it another way, instead of a whole second set, just do a type fill for the #18 instead


----------



## HokieKen

One down. PM me an address Kent.


----------



## Karda

Awww ken you know you want to get it, we all know you are not a collector you just like certain plaes and like to have them around you. Here is something to help you make the decision


----------



## BlasterStumps

Kenny, any suggestions on how I can get another flat head machine screw like this one that I broke. It is 5/16" left hand thread with slotted flat head. I tried Fastenal but the gal said she didn't find it in her catalogs. McMaster has up to 1/4".


----------



## HokieKen

What's the pitch and length Mike?


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'm guessing 18 is the pitch, national course thread. The threaded portion is real close to 5/8" long, the overall length is 3/4". A longer screw would be okay too. I could cut to length. I just don't have a left hand thread die set. I wonder if this screw that I broke could be welded.


----------



## HokieKen

If you don't have to have it right away, I'll turn you one this weekend and get it sent your way. It'll take me less time yo turn it than it would to weld it and I don't see successfully weldin that as very likely…


----------



## KentInOttawa

> One down. PM me an address Kent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


That's purty.


----------



## BillWhite

> The kk 55s are harder to find than the 386. The 386 has nice features but not necessary. They all accomplish the same thing. Pay more for the stanley because of the name. EC Stern s made a fence also they seem to be common.
> 
> - corelz125


Mine is the Langdon model. Works very well.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Kenny, private message sent.


----------



## HokieKen

I got to it pretty quick Mike. Don't get used to it ;-p









Only caveat is that I don't have a way to check them. I don't have any LH hardware. But it's turned to the same diameters as a RH 5/16-18 thread so it should work fine.


----------



## HokieKen

> The kk 55s are harder to find than the 386. The 386 has nice features but not necessary. They all accomplish the same thing. Pay more for the stanley because of the name. EC Stern s made a fence also they seem to be common.
> 
> - corelz125
> 
> Mine is the Langdon model. Works very well.
> 
> - Bill White


I'm pretty sure mine is the Langdon model as well. It doesn't have any identifying features cast in but from what I have been able to discern, it is the same as the Millers Falls model other than not having the name cast in. So I think I came to the conclusion that mine was made by Langdon before MF acquired them and modified the casting pattern to put the company name on it. Can anyone confirm or refute?


----------



## Lazyman

Anyone just dying to have a Millers Falls No 714 Buck Rogers can bid on one at the CAN I HAVE IT Vintage Tool Auction and Sales Facebook Group


----------



## corelz125

A lot of questions about these fences and not many answers. Who made them first Langdon or EC Stearns?


----------



## HokieKen

A couple for Corelz and I'm caught up on my LJ Santa work ;-) Now back to wood and Christmas presents!









Corelz, I sent you a PM about my amatuer knurl work on this one :-/


----------



## HokieKen

> Anyone just dying to have a Millers Falls No 714 Buck Rogers can bid on one at the CAN I HAVE IT Vintage Tool Auction and Sales Facebook Group
> 
> - Lazyman


I'm not on Facebook but what's tbe bid look like Nathan? I'd be willing to trade a set of 46 cutters for it if you wanted to buy it for barter. Might save you a little dough ;-)


----------



## sansoo22

> I'm not on Facebook but what's tbe bid look like Nathan? I'd be willing to trade a set of 46 cutters for it if you wanted to buy it for barter. Might save you a little dough ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Starting bid is $150. Its pretty minty fresh looking though


----------



## HokieKen

Oh, nevermind. That's a $100 plane unless it's NIB.


----------



## HokieKen

Andre was complaining about the blade in his 07 block plane a whole back. I've never had any problems but today I sharpened it and ran into a big batch of pitting. Probably had to grind 1/8" off to get a good edge without any pits. I got there for now and it looks like I'm good for several more sharpenings but there's another mine field waiting back there. So sooner or later I'll be buying or making a cutter Andre…


----------



## HokieKen

I love being able to make a pile of shavings like this from endgrain Walnut )


----------



## donwilwol

> I'm not on Facebook but what's tbe bid look like Nathan? I'd be willing to trade a set of 46 cutters for it if you wanted to buy it for barter. Might save you a little dough ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> Starting bid is $150. Its pretty minty fresh looking though
> 
> - sansoo22


It already has a bid for the #150 and I suspect it will go higher. A decent Bailey can bring $150 these days. I suspect that is probably a $250 plane.


----------



## HokieKen

Yowza. I'm glad I'm not a collector


----------



## donwilwol

> Yowza. I'm glad I'm not a collector
> 
> - HokieKen


Haha, me to…


----------



## corelz125

Thanks Kenny it looks good to me from here.


----------



## rad457

Well it sort of works Large Hook Knife worked the best for final finish


----------



## Karda

is the Buck Rodgers a decent plane or just a novelty


----------



## donwilwol

> is the Buck Rodgers a decent plane or just a novelty
> 
> - Karda


It's an exceptional plane


----------



## Karda

ok


----------



## bandit571

Might try to rehab this little guy…sometime…









6-1/2" long, body is 2" (barely) wide….has a flat topped knob….









has Made in USA on the stern…sole is a bit…









Well worn? markings?









A circled "U" right behind the mouth opening. Bottle cap. Cap iron has a "12" cast into it…









Not sure IF I need to preserve the bad paint job….polish the sides…or…repaint….might take a day to rehab?

Nothing was found on the iron, as far as a logo….Hmmmm


----------



## HokieKen

I have never owned a Buck Rogers plane. But, the design is exceptional IMO. I do intend to acquire one at some point.


----------



## sansoo22

A classic Type 16 #5 going back to work. Had this one spoken for before I even got it restored. I think it will make its new owner very happy.


----------



## sansoo22

And while I'm at it a Type 16 No 4 sporting the sharpest I've ever got a plane iron. Shavings so thin you can literally read the newspaper thru them. I think I'm starting to get the hang of this sharp thing.


----------



## Lazyman

The Buck Rodgers still only has one bid at $150 but lots of watchers. Here's a picture for anyone who doesn't have a FB account. Looks pretty minty. Only little rust.


----------



## corelz125

Latest acquisition Sargent 59


----------



## bandit571

Just needs the cutter, doesn't it….


----------



## Karda

the Buck rodgers when for 150.00, only 1 bidder


----------



## jamesnvh

It still helps a lot =))


----------



## HokieKen

That's sweet Corelz. I love my #12 and a #112 of some ilk has been on my wishlist for quite some time. Probably go for a Veritas on that one though given what the vintage ones sell for…

Is the blade for that Sargent the same size as a #12? If so, I think I have a blade I can spare.


----------



## corelz125

Yep another one missing the cutter. Couldn't find a 112 for the right price this one came a long first for a decent price it's 3" Kenny.


----------



## Lazyman

I made my wife buy me this for xmas. We (I) paid too much for it but it's in great shape.


----------



## corelz125

Original cutter Nathan? Prices for the 12 1/2 are all over the place.


----------



## Lazyman

I don't think its the original cutter-no logo.


----------



## Mosquito

Two planes I didn't really have plans on owning, but the price was right, and I couldn't say no (free and garbage bound otherwise). Not sure why I've never really desired a knuckle cap or scrub, but I've now got one of each lol. Had thought about getting a scrub quite a few years ago, but they were more money than I was willing to pay, and sort of lost interest after that. This one's a #40-1/2. Both need a fair bit of work, obviously


----------



## sansoo22

Mos - those both look like fun challenges to me. But then again I may have a problem with both buying and restoring


----------



## bandit571

Had to pay $18 for this little guy, last spring…









Yes, the locking lever was missing…..









Doesn't seem to bother it….









Has a nice wide bed for the iron…..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mos, garbage bound? Oh, say it ain't so! Glad you saved them! Im a fan of knuckle caps for sure. never tried a 40 1/2, always wondered how close to a cambered jack plane they'd be.


----------



## Mosquito

My neighbor was actually the one that saved them, specifically thinking of me. Our neighbor down the road (his other neighbor) passed away in late September and I guess when the family were clearing out the house they were just going to throw a small pile of old tools away, so he grabbed 'em, saved a roofing hatchet, some pliers, screwdrivers and old adjustable wrench, and saved these for me figuring I'd be "the the right guy" lol

I've never tried a knuckle cap before, but I don't have many adjustable mouth block planes in my arsenal, and none this large, so it'll definitely fill a gap and serve a purpose there. I've only ever used a heavily camber jack (a k5 and a wooden Fulton) and never a #40, so won't have a #40 vs jack comparison to go by, but we shall see


----------



## donwilwol

Good additions Mos. I've always thought knuckle blocks were cool, but not my favorite users. They tend to unhook for me. I know it's how I hold them, so a little practice would rectify it if I needed to


----------



## Peteybadboy

Lazyman,

I'm happy you got your 12 1/2. It looks like a beauty. What is the difference from the 12?


----------



## drsurfrat

The 40 1/2 is a great plane for the winter. You will be sweating in no time. I roughed out a 3×3' glue up and it exhausted me. Part of it was that I used it on old painted boards so it went dull in short order. I really like the scalloped surface it leaves, almost like chip carving.


----------



## Lazyman

> Lazyman,
> 
> I m happy you got your 12 1/2. It looks like a beauty. What is the difference from the 12?
> 
> - Peteybadboy


 The 12 1/2 has a rosewood sole, presumably so you don't damage the surface with the metal sole. The sole on this one looks like it was almost never used which really makes me wonder whether the blade is original and just didn't have a logo on it? Anyone know if that is a possibility?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Lazyman, that 12 1/2 is a purdy thing. Congrats on the find.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't know if any of the Stanley scrapers ever came without markings on them or not Nathan. My #80 is a Record and my #12 came without a blade so it has a shop-made one. Sansoo just sent me a spare for each of those and they both have Stanley stamps though. How wide is your blade? If it's 3" instead of 2-7/8", it's one of the earlier ones. Maybe those first ones didn't have stamped blades?

Corelz, Sansoo sent me a second (shop made best I can tell) spare blade for my #12. Since he was so generous, I'd be happy to pay it forward if you want it for your Sargent. It will need a little grinder work to square up the ends but seems like a perfectly good user. It is a 2-7/8" later model though so it may be a little narrower than the bed on your plane. It's yours if you want it though.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

My understanding is that Stanley did indeed ship scraper blades without logos on them at times. I mean, after all, even 720 chisels left without logos at times.

Don't remember where I read about scraper blades specifically, it's been a while, but that's what I recall.


----------



## DLK

With a sole that pretty of course it is unused. How could you bring yourself to damage it?


----------



## rad457

> With a sole that pretty of course it is unused. How could you bring yourself to damage it?
> 
> - Combo Prof


I would take my Virgin Organic Bee's Wax and polish it every day


----------



## HokieKen

We need to get Andre's bees laid.


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, did you just propose intercourse with insects? oh my!


----------



## corelz125

That is one good looking some. Thanks Kenny. He the scraper planes I've bought were missing the blade.


----------



## Lazyman

The scraper blade is just under 3"-closer to 3" than 2-7/8.

Everyone knows that bees are promiscuous.


----------



## donwilwol

Stung by some honey. Just another day in the neighborhood


----------



## Lazyman

BTW Kenny, if you knew what happened to the male bees while getting laid, you might not be so quick to spoil their virginity. My entomology professor in college said that there is an audible popping noise during the process.


----------



## HokieKen

That's rough. In humans, that doesn't happen until you marry her.


----------



## drsurfrat

whoa, Bobbitt bees. I wish I hadn't read that.


----------



## Karda

well that the price for laying the queen


----------



## bandit571

Somewhere in this messy bench..









There are planes to box up..





















































And put away…still need 2 planes, though..









Stanley No. 9-1/2 to dress a few edges…and..









A Craftsman jack plane to get rid of a gap…or two..


----------



## HokieKen

Question for those with jointing fences, particularly the Langdon or Millers Falls versions: Is there a washer that the rod is pulled against to lock the angle down or does it lock down right against the cast ear? From what I have seen online, it just locks down against the casting. And that works perfectly fine on mine. But, there is an obvious washer face machined into the cast ear on that side and I'm just curious if there was originally a washer there or if it was just machined to make sure the rod had a flat surface to distribute the force and maximize gripping power.


----------



## HokieKen

Also, just bought a plane I don't really need. A Millers Falls 85 rabbet/filister plane. Same as Stanley 78. It's got the fence but is missing the depth stop. Anybody got a spare depth stop to sell. Stanley version should work just fine. I can make one if not but don't really want to take the time to 

It was kind of an impulse buy. Normally with the fence included, they sell for $50-80. So I put the opening bid of $25 on this one and forgot about it. I was kinda shocked when I got a notification that I won with that opening bid. I doubt it'll get much use since I have the 45 and 46. Maybe it'll be handy to keep set up for quick rabbets though?


----------



## drsurfrat

I keep my 78 handy with out fence and stop attached (but not lost) and just grab it to clean up/fit tenons and lap joints that I have hand cut. Then again you have your skew block…


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I was kinda shocked when I got a notification that I won with that opening bid.
> 
> - HokieKen


That happened to me too last week (Stanley 18). It feels odd. Whuzzup?


----------



## BillWhite

There are washers on my Langdon.


> Question for those with jointing fences, particularly the Langdon or Millers Falls versions: Is there a washer that the rod is pulled against to lock the angle down or does it lock down right against the cast ear? From what I have seen online, it just locks down against the casting. And that works perfectly fine on mine. But, there is an obvious washer face machined into the cast ear on that side and I'm just curious if there was originally a washer there or if it was just machined to make sure the rod had a flat surface to distribute the force and maximize gripping power.
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## HokieKen

On both sides Bill? Most of the ones I see online have a washer under the thumbnut but not on the rod side.

I dunno what's going on Kent but I never kick a gift horse in the teeth ;-)


----------



## rad457

> I was kinda shocked when I got a notification that I won with that opening bid.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> That happened to me too last week (Stanley 18). It feels odd. Whuzzup?
> 
> - Kent


Was just notified that I am now the owner of a Keen Kutter Plane, just what I needed, shipping is more than the price of the plane! I wonder if that #14 or #18 M.F. going to find a new home


----------



## DLK

> Also, just bought a plane I don't really need. A Millers Falls 85 rabbet/filister plane. Same as Stanley 78. It's got the fence but is missing the depth stop. Anybody got a spare depth stop to sell. Stanley version should work just fine. I can make one if not but don't really want to take the time to
> 
> - HokieKen


Of Stanley 78, Millers Falls 85 , Sargent 79 rabbet/fillister plane. one of them has the groove that the depth stop fits into on the other side. I think it is sargent, but I will have to check. So check to be sure that a Stanley 78 depth stop will fit the Millers Falls 85.


----------



## bandit571

Stanley does indeed have a groove for the depth stop…









As the depth stop has a ridge that rides in the groove…


----------



## theoldfart

Ken, EC Stearns has one washer. Thumbscrew side.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Kev! That's what mine looks like too. It works so I won't fix what ain't broke.

The Millers Falls has the groove for the depth stop as well.









Pretty sure I've read that the Stanley and MF are cross-compatible.


----------



## rad457

Guess the seller of the Keen Kutter didn't like the low price, refunded the purchase without even contacting me? WTF?


----------



## theoldfart

That sucks. E bay?


----------



## HokieKen

That's a butthole move Andre. Sellers like that suck.


----------



## corelz125

If you dont like the low price dont start it that low. That's just as bad as someone who wins the auction then turns around and asks to cancel it. Which Keen Kutter Andre?


----------



## Mosquito

Agreed, I hate it when sellers do that. I bought an Aluminum #45 as fast as I could (Buy it Now) for $325, paid immediately. Seller refunded me and then sent me a message "I think I have to do a little more research on what I have…"

YOU LITERALLY HAD ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD TO DO THAT BEFORE YOU LISTED IT!


----------



## DLK

Union also has a grove to the right of the slitter.










But Sargent has the the groove to the left of the slitter.










Thus Union, Millers Falls, and Stanley may have interchangeable depth stops, but the Sargent depth stop will not fit them.

(AMT also has the groove to the right of the slitter.)


----------



## sansoo22

Today's random plane pic. A Bedrock 604 and a sweetheart #80 with a Hock blade to tackle this strange Maple grain.









The Bedrock with the mouth closed up almost as far as it will go did a remarkable job but still chattered a tiny bit on this. No worries a fresh turned hook on the #80 has it smooth as glass.


----------



## Lazyman

Andre, If they didn't contact you I would still file a "I didn't receive it" complaint and when they do request a cancellation turn it down. My understanding is that they still have to pay eBay fees then. It probably won't get you the item but at least it may cut into their profit equation a little. Think of it as the dick move penalty.


----------



## Karda

turn that seller in to pay pal


----------



## ac0rn

Ken- send a pm with address for the depth stop.


----------



## Pimzedd

Had a buyer immediately ask to cancel an items I sold at auction Sunday. Said he did not have the funds. He had bid multiple times. I called ebay and made sure I was not charged a sellers fee and canceled as I did not want him to give me a bad rating if I forced him to pay. Will probably give him a bad rating to warn future sellers.


----------



## rad457

Sent a message to seller, no response yet, will give him a day then contact E-Bay. 
Plane had no markings, looked about a #3 size, only reason I threw a bid in was I am getting that K K. gauge fence someday
What Pisses me off the most is no contact, just a notice of refund from E-bay with no explanation!


----------



## sansoo22

> What Pisses me off the most is no contact, just a notice of refund from E-bay with no explanation!
> 
> - Andre


I got blocked by a seller before with no explanation what so ever and ebay doesnt require one. They just dont want my money anymore I guess. Pretty stupid on their part since they deal in antiques and tools and i tend to buy A LOT of antique tools.


----------



## BillWhite

Yep! Both sides of the adjusting rod. One washer under the knurled nut and one under the rod. I am assuming that this was the norm.


> On both sides Bill? Most of the ones I see online have a washer under the thumbnut but not on the rod side.
> 
> I dunno what's going on Kent but I never kick a gift horse in the teeth ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## 33706

> I was kinda shocked when I got a notification that I won with that opening bid.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> That happened to me too last week (Stanley 18). It feels odd. Whuzzup?
> 
> - Kent


Immediately, my reaction in these circumstances is, if nobody else wants it, I don't either….


----------



## bandit571

Of course..IF it did show up at my place anyway….who am I to argue….or say a word….


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I was kinda shocked when I got a notification that I won with that opening bid.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> That happened to me too last week (Stanley 18). It feels odd. Whuzzup?
> 
> - Kent
> 
> Immediately, my reaction in these circumstances is, if nobody else wants it, I don t either….
> 
> - poopiekat


Yeah. I go back over the description and photos and obsess about what I've missed. We'll see when it gets here, apparently before Christmas.


----------



## drsurfrat

There *is* the possibility that you saw something that everyone else missed. Believe it or not, I bought a $25 jointer with no markings and a funny exaggerated hump on the sides. It turned out to be a type 2 (ca.1869-72) No 7 Stanley/Bailey.


----------



## HokieKen

I studied the pictures of mine thoroughly and I'm confident that I'm getting exactly what I think I am. Which suits me just fine for $25


----------



## Karda

could be none of the above maybe nobody was looking that wanted it, that happens, it has happened to me. I have also sold at less than I should because the collectors that would pay the price weren't lookin


----------



## KentInOttawa

Regardless of the final reasons, I've got a very early Stanley #18 on the way. Patrick's Blood and Gore puts production starting in 1888, and the trademark on the blade puts it before 1890.



















Only $6.00 USD. Shipping to Canada was almost 4 times that!

I won't get around to cleaning or sharpening it until the new shop is set up, which could take a while. With some luck, I'll start moving in the first shelving next week.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice, Kent. The No. 18 block and it's derivatives are some of my favorites!


----------



## HokieKen

Wow, that is a great score Kent! Merry Christmas


----------



## Notw

newest plane, to me, Stanley No. 5C. Handle was broken when I got it so made a new handle and then turned a new knob so they would match.

Before 


















After



























Now to find a Stanley No. 3


----------



## drsurfrat

NOTW, I have a handful of users if you want.

-and a bunch of No4s, and No7s, and…


----------



## Notw

> NOTW, I have a handful of users if you want.
> 
> -and a bunch of No4s, and No7s, and…
> 
> - drsurfrat


I am always in for more planes


----------



## HokieKen

Speaking of crappy sellers… The dude I bought my #46 off of was missing one of the slitter screws. So I just made one. If anyone else needs one….get on ebay or make it yourself. What a PITA. Not a common thread (#5-40) and I can barely see 40 pitch threads that small. Let alone measure them. Now I have to figure out how the hell to hold it on my mill to slot it.

Seller wasn't really crappy. He was a total mosquito though.


----------



## Mosquito

lol that guy bugs me Kenny


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah. He's a real bloodsucker.


----------



## Mosquito

"vicious little bloodsucker" is actually how I got the nickname in the first place lol

I drew blood by way of hitting someone with a tennis ball during a net drill at tennis practice


----------



## sansoo22

A few more of these jerks snuck in while I wasn't looking.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmmmm, well…just make them earn their keep, and put them to work…









Stanley #3, Millers Falls #11, Craftsman (M-F) Jack…..









Stanley #9-1/2

Plane shows up here….they get their butts put to work….


----------



## sansoo22

That's the plan Bandit. I have a much older style 60-1/2 with that flat jagged feeling depth adjuster that is getting replaced with the new one. A 5-1/4 is becoming one of my favorite sizes so picked up a second one of those. I don't really have much use for a scrub at the moment but I didn't have one and had never seen a type 18 in the wild so i snagged it.


----------



## Lazyman

Can I Have it FB group has a Stanley 100 1/2 up for auction. Current bid is $44.


----------



## HokieKen

Ooooh! I want it. It'll go out of my range but would you post pics here and keep us apprised of the bids? I might just find a straw buyer


----------



## Lazyman

Here ya go Kenny. There are about a dozen more but these show it pretty well.




























You may have to finally get yourself a facebook account. 

Auctions end at 10pm ET Sunday


----------



## rad457

> Can I Have it FB group has a Stanley 100 1/2 up for auction. Current bid is $44.
> 
> - Lazyman


I gave up bidding on them(and #113) when the bids get to $100.00 + U.S.? plus $30.00 + shipping that $65.00 CAN. version at Lee Valley works just as well  as for a #113 one of those do I really need it???
Plus now with shipping delays when and if would I get them, ordered some turning supplies for the East, took 3 days to make it to our Province but hasn't moved for 2 weeks Guess some people have to wait for gifts this year?


----------



## corelz125

Of course you need a #113 and a #20. The post office down here has been just as bad. Packages that should take 4 days the most are taking over a week. Kenny there's also a Millers Falls #18 with the box on the facebook group.


----------



## theoldfart

Absolutely on the 113/20 compass planes. My 113 gets used quite a bit.


----------



## corelz125

Kevin there's a Stanley #77 in the group this weekend it has 5 cutters with it. $ are still in the box


----------



## HokieKen

Crap on a cracker. What's the bid on the MF18?


----------



## Karda

I don't worry about shipping time it is what it is its the high price that bothers me. shipping is getting slow every where. Don't compare this group with in FB with ebay. in can I have it all the sellers and buyers are like you and me good people that do it right


----------



## Lazyman

MF 18 is currently at $65 + shipping but includes a few other tools in the lot that you may or may not want. It has an unknown reserve that hasn't been met yet.

EDIT: Remote control FB Pictures


----------



## corelz125

Everyone in that group is tired of being extorted by ebay and the fees.


----------



## Karda

true


----------



## sansoo22

> Everyone in that group is tired of being extorted by ebay and the fees.
> 
> - corelz125


From my few months on the "Can I Have It" group it appears its primarily for collector grade items. I could be wrong I just haven't seen a lot of things listed as users. So for a niche of an already niche market it makes sense to operate outside of ebay.

For what I do the ebay fee is just part of my overhead. I look at it as paying access to ebay's vast customer base and I only have to pay the fee if my item sells. It would take me A LOT of time and money to get a brand fired up and get enough recognition to drive traffic to my own commerce site. Ebay is just an easy button for that and as always the easy button comes at a price.


----------



## corelz125

There is a mix of both. Not many of the rusty beat up ones in that group. It seems to be that everyone there has some knowledge about the tools so they just dont find them in a estate or garage sale and list it the same day. There is a a lot of interest in any of the Stanley planes the prices go up pretty fast with them. Being a buyer on ebay has a lot more benefits than buying any place else.


----------



## sansoo22

> ...Not many of the rusty beat up ones in that group….
> 
> - corelz125


Probably why I never find anything I want in that group. I've slowed way down on buying unless its a plane you could describe as fugly. The fugly ones are the ones I like to bring back from the dead.


----------



## theoldfart

Corelz125, what's the price on the 77?


----------



## bandit571

Hmmmm, Random Plane Photos…









Stanley No. 3…vs…









A Craftsman ( M-F No. 14, T-3)....









Or..Stanley No. 9-1/2…..( shop smells strange, though…)


----------



## donwilwol

I had opposite thoughts on the group. More users than collectables, but there certainly is both. I do well with books, but the planes fully tuned and ready to go do not do well there, most of those in that group what to do their own tuning.

But they are growing pretty fast.


----------



## theoldfart

This coffin smoother was a bargain purchase, just a couple of bucks years ago. It eats oak for fun. Auburn Tool Co.



















My go-to smoother.


----------



## donwilwol

Well Kevin, seems you've dispelled the myth you need a tight mouth on a smoother!


----------



## theoldfart

^ yea, I'm a heretic.


----------



## donwilwol

> ^ yea, I m a heretic.
> 
> - theoldfart


Or a God. There is a fine line…..


----------



## theoldfart

I'll take god for two hundred Don!

Heretic is a fall back position.


----------



## rad457

I was sort of thinking maybe, Anarchists


----------



## corelz125

Kevin it's up to $530 right now.


----------



## theoldfart

Corelz, at roughly $110 per cutter retail still worth the price but my guess is it'll go higher by a bit.


----------



## corelz125

The machine itself looks to be in very good shape also. He's also throwing in a veritas 5/8 power tenon cutter


----------



## HokieKen

Must. Resist. Urge. To. Own.

Seriously, I have no real need for one of these. And the damn things aren't even nice to look at. Ugly lil babies. So why an I so drawn the the little bastards?


----------



## ac0rn

curb your urge


----------



## Karda

you must need it for something and if you don't you will


----------



## Lazyman

It might come in handy for a Christmas carving Kenny.


----------



## rad457

> Must. Resist. Urge. To. Own.
> 
> Seriously, I have no real need for one of these. And the damn things aren't even nice to look at. Ugly lil babies. So why an I so drawn the the little bastards?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


At that price I might look at it, but when they get to $100+ and then $30 U.S. shipping (close to $200 CAN.) I have to resist, well actually I paid $65 CAN and bought the Lee Valley Version Works okay for shallow spoons but be warned sharpening requires some concentration!


----------



## HokieKen

I forgot about the LV version Andre. I'll probably go that route if I decide to get one. For the time being I'm still denying the impulse…


----------



## HokieKen

Dang Ebay seller. As if the type 1 MF 18 wasn't already tempting me enough, he goes and drops the BIN price from $125 to $100. THEN he sends me an offer to buy it for $90. Bastard.










I'm tempted to make a counteroffer and mount my jointing fence to the plane. Then it has a purpose and earns its spot in the till and I don't have to collect a full set of type 1s to justify its presence ;-) Plus, with a fence on it, I woudn't have to worry about the knob spinning on me which makes the type 1 a good user.









But, there are a couple of issues with it that give me pause. The tote is busted and will probably need to be replaced. A significant repair at a minimum.

And, the knob is pretty rough around the base. The biggest issue is the knob screw though. That's obviously not original. (To the seller's credit he does call it out and show it clearly)









So the devil and the angel on my shoulders are at pretty even odds at the moment. I hope somebody buys it today so I can quit contemplating it!

In fact I'm gonna link it here in case one of you fella's is kind enough to put me out of my misery ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

I'd try for you, but I've come up empty on the last three I've tried picking up lol


----------



## Karda

go a head you know you need that plane, don't put off the inevitable


----------



## rad457

Whew! "May not ship to Canada", counts me out I have my #8, 9, 10 and 14 as well as a #75 and #07 and some little bull nose thingy? Only one that stays on the wish list is a #7  (Stanley #2 if nothing else shows up)


----------



## HokieKen

Good luck Andre. I have still never seen a #7 for sale to this day. So I've pretty much removed that one from my list. I can pencil it back in if one shows up too ;-) I've only seen a couple of #24s pop up on Ebay over the years too so I'm not holding my breath that I'll ever have one of those either.

There is a type 3 #18C up in the great white north that you could grab.


----------



## Ocelot

> Good luck Andre. I have still never seen a #7 for sale to this day.
> - HokieKen


There ya go ...


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks for the effort Paul but that's a 7" plane ;-) And I already have a #07 which is different from the #7. #7 is equivalent to Stanley #2


----------



## Ocelot

Hey, I don't know my Miller from my Falls!


----------



## Ocelot

OK.
 
Here then!

... but ya gotta pay! (sold)


----------



## bandit571

Not sure I'd need the #18…..seems I already have a Stanley No. 6, T-10…and. a Stanley No. 6c, T-10…..kind of a matched set?


----------



## HokieKen

Geeze! I wonder when that sold? I wouldn't have been able to throw my $175 at them fast enough.


----------



## rad457

The Stanley#2 was tempting, but the $ exchange and $50 shipping keeps me restrained 
Some real interesting tools he has! Guess I keep hoping for another lucky find like my $30.00 Bedrock 604


----------



## ac0rn

Just a few small planes. I've only ever used the 100 once for a Uke build.


----------



## corelz125

There was a 602 round side for sale recently for $400 or best offer. Did you make an offer he couldn't refuse Andre?


----------



## rad457

602 round side would match my 604,,, might offer $200.00 LOL! Was that Canadian $ ?


----------



## adot45

> Just a few small planes. I ve only ever used the 100 once for a Uke build.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Jeff


Nice, gotta love those little guys!


----------



## HokieKen

Can you guess which one I don't need but still want Jeff? ;-)

Jeff actually offered to send me his 100-1/2 to play with for a bit and see if I wanted to buy my own or not. I declined the offer having convinced myself I didn't want one. I may end up re-engaging that offer if I can come up with a good project to use such an animal on


----------



## rad457

The problem is when you have or find the the use, but not the plane/tool


----------



## sansoo22

I got my KK8C all cleaned up and ready to go then 5 min after taking this pic I dropped a screw driver on it and left a giant chip in its finish so….yeah…I'm redoing it. Which may be a blessing as I'm having trouble with the iron and mouth. I did a typical 25/30 bevel setup but that thick iron has this thing setup like a giant smoother. The frog is back as far as it can go while still letting the iron protrude correctly. My options are regrind the iron at something like a 15/30 or file the mouth.

If I file the mouth now is the time to do it because any marks I may accidentally leave on the cheeks will end up hidden. The downside is the plane is no longer "original". Not that it is with my polish job on it but I typically don't alter their construction. If I regrind the iron bevel then I have to remember I did that next time it needs to hit the grinder.

I'm leaning towards filing the mouth and then tossing this in the till as a keeper but thought I'd ask for opinions here while the paint stripper is doing its thing.


----------



## HokieKen

I've never had hands-on a KK plane. But, I would not fool with a 15 degree bevel if it were me. That kinda defeats the advantage of having a thicker iron to begin with. At least to some extent. Can you file the back of the throat instead of the front and have room to move the frog back some more? That would be my preference personally I think but there's really no advantage over filing the front other than you don't have to worry as much about keeping it square and if you get a little overzealous, removing too much from the back doesn't really come into play.


----------



## HokieKen

I spied a MF #3 squirrel-tail in the wild today  It's just a clone of the Stanley 100 but they aren't all that common. Should fortune smile and bids stay few, I'll buy myself a Christmas present ;-P


----------



## sansoo22

> I ve never had hands-on a KK plane. But, I would not fool with a 15 degree bevel if it were me. That kinda defeats the advantage of having a thicker iron to begin with. At least to some extent. Can you file the back of the throat instead of the front and have room to move the frog back some more? That would be my preference personally I think but there s really no advantage over filing the front other than you don t have to worry as much about keeping it square and if you get a little overzealous, removing too much from the back doesn t really come into play.
> 
> - HokieKen


I hadn't thought about the back of the mouth. There is actually plenty of room to work with there. The frog sits forward on the bed mating surface more so than most planes I've owned so we got a lot of wiggle room there. Looking at the back of the mouth the machining wasn't quite so stellar. I may even be able to make some improvements.


----------



## HokieKen

On my planes, other than smoothers, I always try to set the frog such that the ramp at the back of the throat supports the blade (I use a piece of flat plate to set the frog so it's coplanar with the ramp). In cases where the ramp isn't at the same angle as the bedding angle, I've filed it to make it match. I've never had any adverse affects from doing so.

And yes, I am aware that on a bevel down plane the ramp on the sole doesn't actually support the iron. But it makes me feel warm and fuzzy to know I have a continuous surface there anyway. (Honestly when I started making them coplanar, it didn't dawn on me that the bevel prevented contact down there so I thought I was doing some good  )


----------



## donwilwol

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2020/09/03/sharpening-and-setting-an-early-ohio-tools-hand-plane/


----------



## sansoo22

I like a similar setup for the same warm fuzzy feeling and maybe just because it looks cool when I pop out the iron and see that nice continuous ramp all the way thru the mouth.

Now to figure out how to file the angle correctly. Maybe I will get fancy and build a wooden frog to use as a guide while filing.


----------



## Mosquito

I agree with Don, give 'er a good steep grind and don't modify it 

I give mine a nice hollow grind and set it up as far back as I can and it works a treat

And if not, what's the "LJ" price  It looks way nicer than mine since I haven't cleaned it up yet


----------



## HokieKen

Geeze, I had no idea the iron was 3/16" thick! I'd probably go with Don and Mos and just grind some clearance on the blade since it's that beefy. You could always leave your 25/30 alone and grind a third clearance bevel at 15-20. That way your sharpening routine wouldn't be altered. You'd just need to re-grind the clearance periodically.


----------



## rad457

Sounds like the same problem as when I swapped the stock irons in my Stanley's to PMV-11, even with the frog pushed back some were still really tight. When I put a Hock iron in the LN 102 the file came out brass files real easy!
The brass spoke shaves got the same treatment but a lot more difficult, think I had some cheap flat diamond files?


----------



## rad457

> I spied a MF #3 squirrel-tail in the wild today  It s just a clone of the Stanley 100 but they aren t all that common. Should fortune smile and bids stay few, I ll buy myself a Christmas present ;-P
> 
> - HokieKen


Did you see the M.F. #7 ????


----------



## bandit571

Leveling out the high spots…









seems to have worked…









Not all that big of a box, either…









Square is a 6" Combo…...


----------



## HokieKen

> I spied a MF #3 squirrel-tail in the wild today  It s just a clone of the Stanley 100 but they aren t all that common. Should fortune smile and bids stay few, I ll buy myself a Christmas present ;-P
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> Did you see the M.F. #7 ????
> 
> - Andre


#7 or #07?


----------



## rad457

#7 like #2 Stanley You should know that I "now" know the difference
See you have your bid in on that M.F. #3?


----------



## HokieKen

How about a link to the #7 Andre? I went a huntin' and didn't see it? And I needs it!


----------



## rad457

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-VINTAGE-MILLERS-FALLS-2-DEFIANCE-made-in-the-USA-CARPENTRY-PLANES/333827431093?hash=item4db9aa5ab5:g:io0AAOSwU41f1-5q

Doubt you can beat my Bid


----------



## HokieKen

Sorry Andre but if you read the description, that plane is 9.25" long. Not sure where they got #2…


----------



## Lazyman

To me, the pictures of the MF plane looks about an inch shorter than the Defiance plane to me which would make it about 8.25" if the other is 9.25" and aligns with the footnote on oldtoolheaven.com about its actual length.


----------



## HokieKen

Valid sleuthing Nathan. Here's another monkey wrench though. Millers Falls never made a corrugated version of the #7 plane. They didn't make corrugated versions of any plane until the 60s and they stopped making the #7 in 1944. Thinking about it a bit more, I suspect the seller saw the size (2") stamped in the cutter and assumed that was the model number.

All that being said, if Andre comes out with the only MF #7C in existence for the opening bid, I'm gonna hang myself. So don't be surprised when you don't see a response when you post about it Andre ;-p If you do win with the opening bid though, a #9 is still worth more than that.


----------



## Lazyman

Well I didn't notice that the guy put the MF plane on the left when he showed the soles. I'll bid a dollar more just so he doesn't get it for the opening bid, if that will make you fell better.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks to the incredible kindness and generosity of Jeff, I now have the missing depth stop for my MF 85 fillister plane  He even sent the thumbscrew which I wasn't expecting!

Unfortunately, the plane itself is in USPS limbo :-( It's scheduled for delivery on 12/14 according to the tracking :-/


----------



## HokieKen

> Well I didn t notice that the guy put the MF plane on the left when he showed the soles. I ll bid a dollar more just so he doesn t get it for the opening bid, if that will make you fell better.
> 
> - Lazyman


Yeah, that probably would make me feel a little better ;-p Actually just the fact that he has to take the defiance plane with it is therapeutic enough.


----------



## Mosquito

LOL on the Defiance


----------



## KentInOttawa

> LOL on the Defiance
> 
> - Mosquito


+1



> Thanks to the incredible kindness and generosity of Jeff, I now have the missing depth stop for my MF 85 fillister plane  He even sent the thumbscrew which I wasn t expecting!
> 
> Unfortunately, the plane itself is in USPS limbo :-( It s scheduled for delivery on 12/14 according to the tracking :-/
> 
> - HokieKen


The eBay International Shipping Program sure knows how to screw up parcel tracking. All the tracking info on my Stanley 18 stopped once it left Pitney-Bowes in Kentucky 7 days ago.


----------



## rad457

> Valid sleuthing Nathan. Here s another monkey wrench though. Millers Falls never made a corrugated version of the #7 plane. They didn t make corrugated versions of any plane until the 60s and they stopped making the #7 in 1944. Thinking about it a bit more, I suspect the seller saw the size (2") stamped in the cutter and assumed that was the model number.
> 
> All that being said, if Andre comes out with the only MF #7C in existence for the opening bid, I m gonna hang myself. So don t be surprised when you don t see a response when you post about it Andre ;-p If you do win with the opening bid though, a #9 is still worth more than that.
> 
> - HokieKen


So true, but this is as close as anything I have ever seen, checked most of the boxes except checking the blade width?
LOL! I won that K.K. on a feeler bid an that didn't work out all that well? Gotta stop that practice, won two baileys and a Winchester all on the same day, hard to hide all them deliveries from the Boss! (She hasn't noticed the new drum sander yet)
Might just go for a drive and check out that M.F.s # 3, I see it is at a antique store that I have been to before


----------



## Karda

i have noticed that tracing sucks recently


----------



## controlfreak

Tracing on my Starrett said "left in mailbox" but when I got home nothing. I was suspicious that the 12' combo would even fit in my mailbox but decided I would give it another day before attempting to figure out what happened. The following day it was left on the porch furniture.


----------



## rad457

> LOL on the Defiance
> 
> - Mosquito
> +1
> 
> Thanks to the incredible kindness and generosity of Jeff, I now have the missing depth stop for my MF 85 fillister plane  He even sent the thumbscrew which I wasn t expecting!
> 
> Unfortunately, the plane itself is in USPS limbo :-( It s scheduled for delivery on 12/14 according to the tracking :-/
> 
> - HokieKen
> The eBay International Shipping Program sure knows how to screw up parcel tracking. All the tracking info on my Stanley 18 stopped once it left Pitney-Bowes in Kentucky 7 days ago.
> 
> - Kent


Kenny can have the M.F.s I want that cute little Defiance
My K.K. gauge fence showed up yesterday! but the order from William Wood-Wright has been stuck some where for over 3 weeks, called Canada post this morning and they claim that it is waiting delivery in my town?


----------



## controlfreak

I was searching for bedrocks on ebay and noticed some had rounded sides. I thought the bedrocks had the flat top sides. Is it possible that both are "Bedrock".


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> Might just go for a drive and check out that M.F.s # 3, I see it is at a antique store that I have been to before
> 
> - Andre


In all honesty, I am the winning bidder on that plane right now. If you want to PM me before you bid, I'll tell you what my max bid is. I'd hate for the two of us to drive the price up and nobody else be bidding on it ;-)


----------



## ac0rn

> I was searching for bedrocks on ebay and noticed some had rounded sides. I thought the bedrocks had the flat top sides. Is it possible that both are "Bedrock".
> 
> - controlfreak


Early types had rounded sides. Flat straight sides came with Type 5.
See Bob Kaune antique and Used Tools- https://www.antique-used-tools.com/brtypes.htm


----------



## sansoo22

> Early types had rounded sides. Flat straight sides came with Type 5.
> See Bob Kaune antique and Used Tools- https://www.antique-used-tools.com/brtypes.htm
> 
> - Jeff


You beat me to it. Was just getting ready to post that link. Bob has the best Bedrock info I've ever found and is a great guy to get parts from. He's been doing this a very long time and if you aren't sure of the type he will help you figure it out.


----------



## rad457

> ...
> Might just go for a drive and check out that M.F.s # 3, I see it is at a antique store that I have been to before
> 
> - Andre
> 
> In all honesty, I am the winning bidder on that plane right now. If you want to PM me before you bid, I ll tell you what my max bid is. I d hate for the two of us to drive the price up and nobody else be bidding on it ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Not to worry, not bidding and we are under a Covid lock down sort of thingy again, an not the best time of year for a drive through the mountains, (even with a Ford) about that M.F. #2 and Defiance what did they quote for shipping? $120.00 U.S. for me to get them so that may cause a pause?


----------



## HokieKen

Only $16.95 to get it here in Virginia Andre. I wouldn't be in for $120 shipping if they gave me the planes.


----------



## rad457

> Only $16.95 to get it here in Virginia Andre. I wouldn t be in for $120 shipping if they gave me the planes.
> 
> - HokieKen


Kinda what I thought, sent him a request for a new shipping quote and he came back with $55.00, don't need a Defiance all that bad and I already have a #9 and #900!
And yes he thinks the 2" means it is a #2 so yup is a #9 !


----------



## corelz125

The roundy rocks go for a little less money than the flat tops most of the time. I like the lever caps that the round rocks came with.


----------



## rad457

I think my 604 is a type 1, but for $30.00 CAN. think it's okay
Didn't even give a second thought, got it home and checked the base for flat, couple strokes on the 180 grit and she was ready to cut No PMV-11 iron in it! (yet)


----------



## sansoo22

Got my 71 all cleaned up today and even bought a new LV 1/4" iron for it but there seems to be a problem.










With the depth adjuster all the way up the iron still protrudes from the mouth nearly a 1/4". I even flipped the depth adjuster wheel like all the links i found on google said to do. I either ordered the wrong thing or missed some info somewhere about how these are supposed to fit the Stanley router plane.


----------



## theoldfart

Sans, I use the LV cutters and that has not occurred on either of my planes. One's an M F the other, a Stanley. I'll double check both of mine tomorrow and get back to you. 
Is it possible that the threaded rod is shorter than it should be?


----------



## ac0rn

Add a bottom plate, or cut a new key in the iron.


----------



## sansoo22

> Sans, I use the LV cutters and that has not occurred on either of my planes. One's an M F the other, a Stanley. I'll double check both of mine tomorrow and get back to you.
> Is it possible that the threaded rod is shorter than it should be?
> 
> - theoldfart


The threaded rod measures in at 1-1/2" on the button. Not sure how long its supposed to be. It looks original but everything is shiny now and I didn't pay attention before I cleaned it up.



> Add a bottom plate, or cut a new key in the iron.
> 
> - Jeff


I might have to opt for cutting a new key. For once I actually have a need for the fence on the bottom of the router.


----------



## ac0rn

An even simpler solution for the 71 would be not to use the threaded adjuster at all. Remove the nut, set the cutter depth by hand and lock in place.


----------



## drsurfrat

> I was searching for bedrocks on ebay and noticed some had rounded sides. I thought the bedrocks had the flat top sides. Is it possible that both are "Bedrock".
> - controlfreak
> 
> Early types had rounded sides. Flat straight sides came with Type 5.
> See Bob Kaune antique and Used Tools- https://www.antique-used-tools.com/brtypes.htm
> - Jeff


There's also a condensed 1-pager Bedrock type study if you want.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fpzop6wq0ic0ecl/Stanley%20Bedrock%20Type%20Sheet.pdf?dl=0

From Walter's book.

If you are looking for round sides, I might have one for you, not a No2, though..


----------



## HokieKen

No issue with my LV spearpoint cutter in my 71 Sansoo.


----------



## Lazyman

> Well I didn t notice that the guy put the MF plane on the left when he showed the soles. I ll bid a dollar more just so he doesn t get it for the opening bid, if that will make you fell better.
> 
> - Lazyman
> 
> Yeah, that probably would make me feel a little better ;-p Actually just the fact that he has to take the defiance plane with it is therapeutic enough.
> 
> - HokieKen


Who would bid on a Defiance when you can get an Amazon Basics hand plane for $40?


----------



## bandit571

Can get the same plane in a blue paint job at Lowes…same price, too….


----------



## corelz125

Mike do you have a 603? Maybe it's an amzon basics made by veritas. Wishful thinking


----------



## drsurfrat

corelz, I do. type 3 round side, corrugated. Let me know if you want full size pics.





































and other type 3's: 604, 604 1/2, 605, 605 1/2, 606, 607, 608. I don't use them so could part with them.


----------



## HokieKen

Mike's kinda like Bandit and Smitty. Name a tool and one of em will post a picture of it within 24 hours ;-)


----------



## drsurfrat

I'm way past my embarrassment for being a "collector". Might as well share.


----------



## HokieKen

You're in the right place Mike )


----------



## donwilwol

If we're gonna talk rare and collectable Bedrock, how about a type 1 #4 1/2?


----------



## theoldfart

Sansoo, my two routers with LV cutters










The MF has a bigger range on the adjuster


----------



## sansoo22

Thanks Kevin. That last pic is what I needed to see. I was only backing the thumb wheel up until it was level with the threaded rod. For some reason I was thinking the wheel had something to do with iron stability. But between Andre's comment and your image I got it all fit together and working.

Once again I LOVE this thread. You guys have spent A LOT of my money but the knowledge I've gained here was worth the cost….that and I have a bunch of bad ass planes to show for it.


----------



## corelz125

Don that's one that's for sale or staying in the collection? Who has a MF #24 to show off??


----------



## HokieKen

Not me (he says as he wipes away a tear) :-((


----------



## HokieKen

A 10 + a 14 equals 24 right?


----------



## HokieKen

Or how about 15+ 9?


----------



## HokieKen

Or 07 + 8 + 9?









Okay, I'm done.


----------



## corelz125

Weld 2 together Kenny then it might work. Two irons one plane like a rabbet plane on steroids.


----------



## donwilwol

> Don that s one that s for sale or staying in the collection? Who has a MF #24 to show off??
> 
> - corelz125


It hasn't been listed yet, but being a Stanley, it's not likely to stay. Especially if i can get what I've been told it's valued at.


----------



## HokieKen

Speaking of rabbet planes… I spotted this Sargent block on Ebay.









Don't know that I've ever seen another block plane quite like that. Did any other makers make one?

And no, I'm not bidding on it. Handy as it may (or may not) be, I don't own any Sargent planes and if I bought this one, I might feel like it needed a friend or five.


----------



## Mosquito

does Lie-Nielsen count? lol

Keen Kutter had one like that (they called it, confusingly, the KK140), but I'm not sure that counts either lol










Not to be confused with the K140


----------



## donwilwol

> Speaking of rabbet planes… I spotted this Sargent block on Ebay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know that I've ever seen another block plane quite like that. Did any other makers make one?
> 
> And no, I'm not bidding on it. Handy as it may (or may not) be, I don't own any Sargent planes and if I bought this one, I might feel like it needed a friend or five.
> 
> - HokieKen


Oh come on, what's another rabbit hole?


----------



## corelz125

Got one last year Kenny. That price isn't gonna last long for that plane.


----------



## Mosquito

> Speaking of rabbet planes… I spotted this Sargent block on Ebay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know that I've ever seen another block plane quite like that. Did any other makers make one?
> 
> And no, I'm not bidding on it. Handy as it may (or may not) be, I don't own any Sargent planes and if I bought this one, I might feel like it needed a friend or five.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> 
> 
> Oh come on, what s another rabbit hole?
> 
> - Don W
Click to expand...

*rabbet* hole*


----------



## HokieKen

Is that a rabbet rabbit hole? ;-)

I would probably actually pick it up if the price was right if I hadn't just bought the MF 85 and already have the MF 07. Between the two, my rabbeting and shoulder itches should be scratched.

Mos, I have seen the LN and forgot all about it. And sure the KK counts. I just find it hard to believe that somebody made a block plane that Stanley didn't make.


----------



## HokieKen

Very nice Corelz. Yeah, with 16 bids and 5 days still left to go in the auction, I didn't figure it was gonna go for a price in the "impulse buy" range. Plus the MF3 squirrel tail ends the day after that so if I'm gonna spend any money on a plane, it'll be that one


----------



## corelz125

I got lucky with that one. It was mixed in when I bought a lot of planes. One of the few times I actually got a good deal. Mos that's in your collection or a pic from online?


----------



## BlasterStumps

here are my left and right blocks:



















They don't match but work equally well.


----------



## Ocelot

Veritas and Quingshang Luban make similar.



> Speaking of rabbet planes… I spotted this Sargent block on Ebay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know that I've ever seen another block plane quite like that. Did any other makers make one?
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## Mosquito

Alright Kenny, I'll buy you your Millers falls type 1, and the Sargent block for you if you buy me my shoulder plane

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bridge-City-Tool-Works-CT-14-Shoulder-Plane/184588444780?hash=item2afa54246c:g:rzcAAOSwqBFfzRcL


----------



## bandit571

random Plane Photo for today….









might have the iron sharp enough? Stanley No. 3, Type 11, with the original iron, too …..









Zero tear-out, BTW…..


----------



## HokieKen

I'll ask the wife Mos. If she says it's okay, it's a deal.

Did you see the pencil maker Bridge City just released? It's out of my budget by about 500% but I have to admit, having the abilty to make pencils seems really cool for some reason.


----------



## Mosquito

only if you own a pencil pointer (And I don't mean one of the rotary cup style drafting ones)


----------



## corelz125

Does that shoulder plane cut them all on its own?


----------



## theoldfart

> only if you own a pencil pointer (And I don t mean one of the rotary cup style drafting ones)
> 
> - Mosquito


Why not? I'm offended! Probably just fake news anyway.


----------



## HokieKen

My cast iron rotary pointer is the bees knees. What kind do you need with the BC kit? I thought it came with one? (Yes, I read a lot more about it than I should have…)


----------



## HokieKen

> Does that shoulder plane cut them all on its own?
> 
> - corelz125


For that price, a shoulder plane better plane on its own, give shoulder rubs and have boobs.


----------



## rad457

> Alright Kenny, I ll buy you your Millers falls type 1, and the Sargent block for you if you buy me my shoulder plane
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bridge-City-Tool-Works-CT-14-Shoulder-Plane/184588444780?hash=item2afa54246c:g:rzcAAOSwqBFfzRcL
> 
> - Mosquito


Sorta makes all them Festool owners feel like they bought the Cheap stuff.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Dream achieved photo: 
Brand new Veritas shoulder plane getting a little tongue action in shop today. :-(0)
If had red mouth when done as it was a cherry tongue. 
Haha…










Testing dry fit on tongue/groove side panels on 2'x4' blanket chest:


----------



## HokieKen

Very nice CK!


----------



## Mosquito

Nice CK, with my budget the Veritas is the one I want (I have a Record 073 already though, which is the one Lie-Nielsen iterated on)

The BC is, with out a doubt, the one I'd have if money were no object. I've wished I could afford/justify one since I first saw them about 9 years ago. That will fall under the category of "not unless someone has no idea what it is and I get lucky enough to be there".

And I know the Tru-Point style pencil pointers work great, I used them when I had drafting and architecture classes, but something like these are more what I had in mind when I was saying that:


----------



## controlfreak

I love it! Automatic pencil sharpener….with a hand crank.


----------



## theoldfart

Dammit Mos, I did not have to see those. I think maybe another "I'm not a collector" phases is beginning to develope. The Tru Point could be just the beginning.


----------



## HokieKen

Ahh. Those are pretty slick looking Mos. I imagine the Boston I have on the wall of the shop is the same basic guts, just packaged different (and a lot less sexy…).


----------



## DLK

Damn, Mos. I want one!


----------



## Karda

I'll stick with planes


----------



## sansoo22

Thanks to the pointers here the #71 got a work out yesterday…or maybe I got the workout. 









Cut, lift, twist, twist, twist, repeat…now we know why powered routers exist. But then I don't get to see and clean up the fruits of my labor.


----------



## Mosquito

haha, there was a point in time in which I was seriously contemplating starting to pick up pencil pointers because I found them fascinating. So far, I have resisted lol


----------



## HokieKen

How are you going to sharpen all the Bridge City pencils you make then Mos?


----------



## Mosquito

oh, just one of my cheap pocket knives I've got laying around everywhere










(not actually mine)


----------



## KentInOttawa

A Sargent #407 popped up here for about CAD$225 from a reputable dealer of eclectic planes.


----------



## Karda

cute little thing


----------



## rad457

You make him an offer Kent? I see he has a #113 too


----------



## KentInOttawa

> You make him an offer Kent? I see he has a #113 too
> 
> - Andre


No, I have too much on my plate already; I need to catch up some before I add to my list. Also, when I go down the compass plane route, I'll opt for a 20, 20 1/2 or a Record 020.


----------



## corelz125

Andre the 113 in the FB group sold for $45 that was a steal.


----------



## rad457

> Andre the 113 in the FB group sold for $45 that was a steal.
> 
> - corelz125


Yep, about $60 CAN. plus shipping, depending on condition, good deal!


----------



## corelz125

Didn't make a run at it Andre?


----------



## rad457

> Didn t make a run at it Andre?
> 
> - corelz125


Made an offer, will see tomorrow if I bought a #113 an a 407 Sargent? (Never owned a Sargent but have heard good things) Looks an awful lot like my 604 Bedrock


----------



## corelz125

The 113 that was on FB.


----------



## rad457

> The 113 that was on FB.
> 
> - corelz125


No, kinda hard for me to pick it up ?
But it appears that I have bought one, as long as it doesn't disappear like my stuff from William Wood Wright
Also have to make room in the Till for a #2 
Merry Christmas to Me! Gotta love Self gifting.


----------



## rad457

Picked a Bailey #5 (happen to have a few extras) to try out the new KK #55 seemed to work okay


----------



## BlasterStumps

That's a pretty nice setup there Andre. I made something similar out of the fence from an old B&D electric planer and put it on a No 7. I have used it a few times. If you get it dialed in, they can make edge jointing much better. I think you will like that tool.


----------



## corelz125

Which #2 did you get?


----------



## rad457

> Which #2 did you get?
> 
> - corelz125


The one Kent sent a link to. Have to check see if Veritas makes a PMV-11 iron for it


----------



## corelz125

The 407. From that pic it looks to be in good shape.


----------



## donwilwol

> Which #2 did you get?
> 
> - corelz125
> 
> The one Kent sent a link to. Have to check see if Veritas makes a PMV-11 iron for it
> 
> - Andre


You now own a Sargent, you must not call it a.#2. The gods do not like that!


----------



## KentInOttawa

> A Sargent #407 popped up here for about CAD$225 from a reputable dealer of eclectic planes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Kent





> Which #2 did you get?
> 
> - corelz125
> 
> The one Kent sent a link to. Have to check see if Veritas makes a PMV-11 iron for it
> 
> - Andre


I noticed that it had been sold. I'm glad that it found a good home.


----------



## HokieKen

> You now own a Sargent, you must not call it a.#2. The gods do not like that!
> 
> - Don W


Yeah Andre. That's obviously a #7.


----------



## HokieKen

I finally broke down and bought my first Veritas plane earlier this year. It's already breeding!









Mike (Blasterstumps) sent me this as a (VERY) generous "thanks" for a screw I turned for him. It's gonna have a good life cleaning up glue lines and corners in my shop 

Thanks again SantaStumps )


----------



## rad457

Already have the new PMV-11 iron on the wish list for my next visit to L.V. Was surprised by the history of the Sargent planes, did not realize how popular they actually were, now all I have to do is find a #514 
That flush plane was the very first Veritas plane I ever purchased, many years ago Kenny, Lil sucker is dangerous


----------



## donwilwol

> You now own a Sargent, you must not call it a.#2. The gods do not like that!
> 
> - Don W
> 
> Yeah Andre. That's obviously a #7.
> 
> - HokieKen


LOL


----------



## Karda

what do you call it


----------



## corelz125

A Sargent 514 have a better chance at hitting the take 4 lotto. You will need that money to pay for it when you do find it.


----------



## bandit571

I'll just settle for the Sargent No. 414 VBM…









A Sargent No. 414c VBM…..seems I also have a plain 414 in the til….last I looked….and a #408…..


----------



## donwilwol

> A Sargent 514 have a better chance at hitting the take 4 lotto. You will need that money to pay for it when you do find it.
> 
> - corelz125


Yep, that's a tough one too find


----------



## bandit571

And..









Buried under the shavings, a raised "boss" with Sargent….









that ain't Rosewood handles..( begins with M)...and there is a "414" right in front of the handle…









Did I mention it was also a "c" model. iron is stamped as a V.B.M. 414c…SARGENT…

Couldn't find the other 414…must have gave that one away…oh well….one is enough, right?


----------



## bandit571

A Mr. Seymour Smith & Sons did a bit of work yesterday…









Dremel did the insides of the handles….Smith took care of the outsides…


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photo for today….









Stanley No. 3, Type 11….









Look close..there is a second plane in this one..


----------



## Karda

got a question but its about a newer plane. I inherited a Stanley block plane made in England. The only writing on the Plane is Stanley logo on cap, Stanley made in England on the iron and England on the bed under the adjusting wheel. The sole is 6 7/8 long the blade is 1 15/16 wide. can any body tell me anything about the plane other than its a cheap big box store plane. thank Mike


----------



## rad457

Question for our Millers Falls Experts, did they make a L.A.J.?


----------



## bandit571

No….


----------



## HokieKen

What he said^


----------



## sansoo22

Just for fun I tried the buffer method on my #18 iron after sharpening. Picked up the buffer tip from another thread on LJs about chisels. I'm calling near transparent end grain shavings a success. Sure its not as good as a #65, #60-1/2 or LAJ might do but for an #18 I was still pretty impressed.


----------



## donwilwol

> Just for fun I tried the buffer method on my #18 iron after sharpening. Picked up the buffer tip from another thread on LJs about chisels. I m calling near transparent end grain shavings a success. Sure its not as good as a #65, #60-1/2 or LAJ might do but for an #18 I was still pretty impressed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - sansoo22


Skewing the plane helps as well.


----------



## drsurfrat

Sorry, but what's the buffer method?


----------



## donwilwol

> Sorry, but what s the buffer method?
> 
> - drsurfrat


There are many. It's polishing with a buffer. You typically need a hard polishing wheel. It's really just stropping on steroids.


----------



## HokieKen

The method Sansoo is referring to is basically the way you hone carving tools so that you polish a small convex bevel just behind the cutting edge instead of a flat bevel or adding a micro bevel.


----------



## bandit571

A David Weaver called it the Unicorn Method, I think….that Stanley No. 3, Type 11 I've been using lately, was honed that way. Some Green Compound on a cloth buffing wheel on my grinder….


----------



## donwilwol

Taking this for a run this morning.


----------



## Mosquito

nice Don, what's the back story? It was getting increasingly difficult to keep walking by infills at the MWTCA meets. But then we stopped having them for a year (so far) lol


----------



## donwilwol

> nice Don, what s the back story? It was getting increasingly difficult to keep walking by infills at the MWTCA meets. But then we stopped having them for a year (so far) lol
> 
> - Mosquito


https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/30/g-davies-infill-plane-restore/


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ That is a beautiful bench / shop pic, Yoda! Looking very nice indeed, thanks for sharing.


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## donwilwol

> ^ That is a beautiful bench / shop pic, Yoda! Looking very nice indeed, thanks for sharing.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Thanks Smitty. I definitely need to deal with the clutter one of these days, but not today


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That is one rough cut piece of stock you're working with. What's it gonna grow up to become?

Clutter always waits. It's remarkably patient in that regard.


----------



## donwilwol

It's a shelf for.my daughter. To help with the kids clutter


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Perfectly appropriate! Happy New Year, Don.


----------



## theoldfart

Don,Smitty, love to have a virtual tour of your respective shops!


----------



## BlasterStumps

My thoughts exactly! 


> Don,Smitty, love to have a virtual tour of your respective shops!
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## HokieKen

With all the love floating around for the knuckle cap block planes I've been pondering snagging one for myself. So when this MF36 popped up at a good BIN price this morning, I snatched it


----------



## Mosquito

sorry Kenny, it's the 18 club, 36 is right the way too far

But it does make me want to clean mine up lol


----------



## donwilwol

> With all the love floating around for the knuckle cap block planes I've been pondering snagging one for myself. So when this MF36 popped up at a good BIN price this morning, I snatched it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


Nice try blaming us for your weakness!!


----------



## rad457

Another E-bay #$%## backed out last minute on a Sargent 418 that was going to be a great deal
An no 514 listed? Heck might even look at a #62?
I wouldn't recognize my shop with out clutter but did sort of clean the bench ! (can see some wood)


----------



## HokieKen

36 is higher than 18 Mos' so it must be better, right? ;-)

I wasn't blaming you for this one Don. I'm laying this one on Smitty. He's the one that preaches the gospel of Stanley chapter 18 ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Andre, that's some BS. I hope your filing greivances against these a-holes.


----------



## sansoo22

Smitty may have had some influence on this happening. 18, 18, 19 and 65


----------



## donwilwol

LOL, at one time I had about 50 of those damn knuckle thingies. I managed to bring myself to sell a few. They are a bit addicting.


----------



## Mosquito

oh great, I was just recently given one, so now you're saying there will be more?

Has anyone made a strictly block plane til in the style of a bench plane til yet?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Smitty may have had some influence on this happening. 18, 18, 19 and 65
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - sansoo22


Almost there! Missing a S18 and a 118. I won't suggest a 18 1/4 though; that'd just be silly.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Don, Smitty, love to have a virtual tour of your respective shops!
> 
> - theoldfart
> 
> My thoughts exactly!
> 
> - BlasterStumps


OF, you've had a real tour! And I can't imagine there's anything left to the imagination in my shop at this point. It's got to be one of the most photographed shops on this site!?


----------



## theoldfart

Well, maybe there has been updates, sort of a Smiity's Cabinet Shop 2.0.


----------



## HokieKen

Mos, my block planes have slots in my bench plane till but not their own special till. It's time for a new till though, I've outgrown mine so maybe I'll make them their own thos go round…


----------



## sansoo22

All of my users are still in drawers until I get the washer and dryer out of the shop and into the basement where they belong. Then that nook is becoming a massive hand tool nook. I've played with the idea of a sliding block plane till over top the bench plane till. No clue how I would go about securing them but it would definitely be a space saver.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I have a fair number of blocks in a row in the not wall hung…


----------



## HokieKen

A block under the ass and a rare earth magnet under the nose keeps all my planes secure Sansoo.


----------



## bandit571

I don't discriminate…they all get their spaces in one til….


----------



## Mosquito

My blocks are either in the Keen Kutter tool cabinet (the KK 9-1/2), or just in the regular plane til. Mine is fully adjustable (though I think I've only rearranged it twice in the past 8-1/2 years), so there are two columns that are only as wide as the block planes, including one that's a 101… seems like a waste, though I suppose I don't have anything else in it.

I want to make a new plane til. I like the one I have, in that it's fully configurable with a TON of options, using t-track as the separators (I can have t-bolts/t-nuts in my dividers to create shelves, or vertical dividers, etc), it means that each separator is ~3/4" wide. I use up probably 10-12" in just dividers on my til. In its current configuration, it actually works better on the ground than on a base cabinet/counter height, but it gets the job done until I get around to doing something else

What I really want to make is a tool cabinet on wheels (two part, upper and lower), so I can get rid of the other "came-with-the-shop" rotting base cabinet. But right now that base cabinet is in heavy use, because it's there… Basically, I need a bunch of storage, to get rid of the storage that I don't want to store anymore


----------



## theoldfart

" Basically, I need a bunch of storage, to get rid of the storage that I don't want to store anymore 

Huh? I don't think that means what you think that means. I think!


----------



## Mosquito

lol I want the base cabinet gone so I can stop letting it eat up space in the shop, but it is storage for a bunch of stuff that I'll have to make other storage for first


----------



## rad457

Just made a shelf on the back side of the bench for excess M.F.s, Winchesters an Stanley's, going to find a spot for that Sargent when it arrives? User Baileys(PMV-11 irons) on the end of the bench and about 6 - 8 blocks under/on the bench, the rest in the tool cabinet with the Veritas an Krenov's! May have to organize them some day, for now there is usually a plane within easy reach!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Happy New Year, knucklecaps!


----------



## Peteybadboy

Hokieken why didn't I think of that?! Block and Magnet to hold planes on my tool wall! Brilliant !

Happy New Year to you all


----------



## Peteybadboy

Hokieken why didn't I think of that?! Block and Magnet to hold planes on my tool wall! Brilliant !

Happy New Year to you all


----------



## controlfreak

Yeah Kenny I like the rare earth magnet thing you have there. I have been stressing over the angle to store the planes at but this opens up many more possibilities.


----------



## drsurfrat

I keep most of my users in drawers under my bench. It makes a distinct difference in dust and rust compared to the ones i leave in the open on shelves.

Happy New Year


----------



## HokieKen

The magnets let me angle the till at about 7.5 degrees instead of a steeper angle that would use gravity to accomplish it.









I've seen the same accomplished with swinging latches that grab the toe too. But I have to do a little lean and grab to get planes out or put them back because the till is hung at the ceiling behind my bandsaw. So the magnets were just the ticket 

I used 1/4" magnets but had to plow shallow grooves for blade clearance on the bigger planes to make sure they made good contact. Otherwise they could tip back in the right circumstances. Next go, I'll probably go with no angle and keep it flat and use bigger magnets and a undercut on the bottom blocks.


----------



## HokieKen

Oh, ignore the hole in the ceiling. That's just where I hide the bodies.


----------



## rad457

> Oh, ignore the hole in the ceiling. That's just where I hide the bodies.
> 
> - HokieKen


They must be cut up very small to fit in there? Band saw kinda messy?

I used 3/4" magnets for the #6, #5 an #4s then 1/2" for smaller and Block planes if and when they get put in?
Used as insurance, prevent them from slipping out, guess the #113 is going into the wall cabinet
Want to leave the gauge fence on the #5 but not sure how or where to store it?
Dang, need bigger shop!


----------



## corelz125

Andre did you get the 113 yet? Kenny or is that the spot you hide the boxes of tools from the wife?


----------



## Lazyman

I just assumed the hole was where you stuck your head through ceiling - it's the right shape anyway.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Where a good number of blocks live these days.










They're hiding all over, in smaller groups.


----------



## rad457

> Andre did you get the 113 yet? Kenny or is that the spot you hide the boxes of tools from the wife?
> 
> - corelz125


Expected delivery is the 5th. but then again I did get a message from the Post office that they are looking into the parcel that was shipped Nov.23? They have it listed as arriving in a City 200 miles away on Nov. 28, asking if I have received it yet?


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, shipping is all kinds of screwed up in general… Got the "you be a package for delivery tomorrow" email Tuesday from UPS, checked it Wednesday morning, eta Monday. WYF, it was still IL Illinois on Wednesday when I got the email, nice work there lol. Also, taking 3 out 4 days for packages to show up from in the same state via USPS (like, if I drove it's 4.5 hours away). Oh well, hurry up and wait I guess.


----------



## Mosquito

Smitty I like the block plane storage, was that always the plan for that space, or adapted over time?


----------



## Karda

i think they are doing pretty good considering the covid shut downs and staff shortages and its holiday time and on top of that a mad man is trying to shut them down


----------



## corelz125

Yep asking if you received it yet. Guess the postal service up there isn't much better than here. USPS raised the shipping rates during the holiday season, they claim they will go back to what they were. Most of the time once something goes up it never comes back down in price.


----------



## drsurfrat

I'm with Karda, I think they do a good job in spite of all their restrictions. Then again, one bad event can really spoil someone's trust.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mos, that actually was the plan. Hard to believe, right? ;-)


----------



## donwilwol

I have to disagree about USPS. I would be ok with some delay, but it's just a total cluster!!. I've still got 2 orders in a black hole somewhere. And that's assuming the ones I don't know about are actually delivered. I am hoping because one of the lost orders is one of my biggest plane orders this year. That ones going to hurt if it's lost.

I've had some orders I've shipped, then days later the tracking shows it was delivered to my mailbox, at the exact date and time it was picked up, so i can't even track them. 2 were substantially delayed like this but eventually did show up.


----------



## Mosquito

I had one that showed up as delivered 4 days before it got to my house too, which was awesome (not really)  Something similar happened to me I think, Don, because I got a note from the seller "Hey, I see that it says it was delivered today, but I didn't drop it at the post office until this afternoon… give it a week and let me know if you don't get anything".

Smitty, I like it, and the more I think about a free standing tool cabinet the more I keep wanting to copy a lot of yours lol


----------



## CaptainKlutz

FWIW - Have seen USPS do something odd (and frustrating) on 3 fleabay shipments last month?
The seller printed the label automatically with sale, and tracking was sent to me via email. 
But when the package was dropped off, the receiving location decided to print a new label with new tracking number. 
Oddly enough, twice sellers emailed me saying package shipped today and didn't notice the tracking number in email was different; until the old packaging tracking number didn't even show rcvd for 3 days. Duh!

Have had UPS store where I drop stuff off, do same thing with couple Amazon returns. Clerk claimed they get a bigger commission if store (re)prints a label, .vs. just accepting package, and all they have to do is note old label damaged. Cost to ship doesn't change, and they made a new label in seconds; so unless you ask about new label, most senders might not even notice the tracking changed on the receipt?

Cheers!


----------



## rad457

LOL! lets not talk about Amazon return policy! Pulled my credit card and was ready to cancel Prime, until I realized that then I would never get a refund!


----------



## Mosquito

This one came through lol They must be running multiple routes around me for USPS. I saw the mail truck go by and got mail including a package containing a Keen Kutter K620 brass clad rule (in the restoration before/after thread). Then I get an eBay email that a package for 2 orders was delivered (at around 7:30pm). Sure enough, even though it said it would be arriving Monday, they delivered it today, after the normal route.

Wanted a set of these once I got the #444, and now I do 



















I've actually wanted a set for a lot longer than that, but finally made it happen regardless.


----------



## theoldfart

They are really useful, perfect for fine tuning tapered DT's, dados and the like.
Looks to be an early set, no fence?


----------



## Mosquito

You are correct Kevin, they are both of the earlier variety with no depth stops


----------



## rad457

Sweet Mos, I have used my #79 already can see an advantage to the pair!


----------



## controlfreak

Mosquito, Now you have me lookin at a 79's. The No. 79 has two cutters, do you use it with both or do you retract one cutter? Mos, what are he numbers or your pair?

I was using a No. 78 to adjust some 10" tenons and had some trouble with one part of the protruding slightly beyond the side wall and mucking things up. I really need a shoulder plane but am on tool restrictions after a saw stop purchase. I have a little $ in my paypal account so I am watching some there. Do you think I could make one of these work to get me by?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ebony-flat-profile-shoulder-plane-KO1085-055/353334738433?trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item5244643e01:g:BNoAAOSwB4tf6ptg&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACcBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%252Fn%252BzU5L90Z278x5ickkWpEuxXwAiCNKyBQsQ5%252Fe62Jh7nxHednxgLPZZARq1meDCdooPnVbPrCrbMiHnpubwzEOBn88zfC85buuh2tbQTIQWDhcvTUzoEDxpQYg0sqbWGyj%252BimkfIW8%252BNu8yyOwV46Ysq8MKF2jesQfdkbYvkjk6mJj6CxAWxSJBhn5XkprcorlBOvIUeVDfZ9wlEKo56vYZaGRkGHUQA7NUQ1QF7dflIe8tiqIliaYZaABv0agGYdj3TUkT9YA1M%252B7%252FGABW3kuhjoMrBmqEnVZCvIS%252FV2dhksolCLtUnZ1lZyHN0OjqOWxrhCNpN%252Brr0Pv98Cuh8rkhyEfoRMARLZM%252F08TtwiOrXBJDs1BDo9EMir5SHb7JoIrytUxXPnR4x6dTCEKenrdwdVQ2cZDg118ylErPscljdDezY6%252FMZULuZxBzBvpFM7a822G%252FtA%252FBC7Z04E6ubu4vXvWhYUWvimiZ3wyReTrrj9iUBhDcVIUc8HUVJsFEbADyF0urGhmG0sEnrwrlAm8awpPFY8esoUozpd8A0YBjqTwOGQnDVue%252BpXrQyIqDiU0vySJobYdgFvsU8YREaNO6NPc8u5wtLGG9eK7GiLsUeqo918mEL1reEJrDcZsvs9NwyZZ%252BxmoN4c%252BZiQ%252F5%252BOWRaBMyIvGTmBFDGvKdeAzhXrHxb97%252Bd4DCtR6d2H9xBMDWajZ8N2JqzpABqyh%252Bk71v85y1FlHXFYElr9PDbopTD3Dh0BGtU%252FiOK%252BBxaZQAC%252Figbt24ieRj3ExB2RKFLb216smKS9MOdlfwknu3A%253D%253D%7Ccksum%3A3533347384339ccdd118477f4791bf11cc6a044acac8%7Campid%3APLCLK%7Cclp%3A2334524


----------



## HokieKen

USPS seems to have regional issues. Everything has been late but arriving on time. But Corelz and I have traded a couple packages and those going in and out of NYC where he lives are taking 3+ weeks.

Mos, great score man. I've often though a pair of those would be handy to have around. Maybe I'll machine me a pair.


----------



## Mosquito

A number of years ago Mauricio made a set for one of our early shop made plane swaps, they were pretty epic.


----------



## Lazyman

Those side rebate planes by Mauricio are pretty cool. BTW, he used this old book PDF for the plans.


----------



## rad457

Interesting book, Love the Router Plane or Old Woman's Tooth. Funny that by the time we have the need or skills to use or build these tools we already have the bought versions?

*Controlfreak*, I have that shoulder plane but the Lee Valley version back when I believe it was made from Rosewood or something similar? Now that I actually have learned how to use it, find it works fantastic


----------



## HokieKen

Controlfreak


----------



## HokieKen

hasn't


----------



## HokieKen

learned


----------



## HokieKen

not


----------



## HokieKen

to


----------



## HokieKen

post


----------



## HokieKen

full


----------



## HokieKen

links


----------



## HokieKen

yet.


----------



## HokieKen

Has


----------



## HokieKen

he?


----------



## theoldfart

Carpet bombing LJ's Kenny?


----------



## bandit571

Getting a tad bit LONG-winded, are we now….

3 jacks Kenny might like?


















Sometimes, I will use that old Auburn No. 181….1.25" skewed rebate plane….


----------



## Mosquito

lol I was wondering if that link was going to trigger Kenny  I did check it on my phone and it definitely screws things up (good ol' LJ)


----------



## corelz125

Very interesting book Nathan. That first package should of been to VA in the latest 4 days it took over 3 weeks. I sent a package to upstate NY dropped it off Dec 14 and it still hasn't been delivered. I could of walked it up there in a radio flyer wagon and it would of been there sooner.


----------



## controlfreak

link
is this better Kenny?

Sorry about that. It ran off the page so I couldn't see that it went down the street and to a right turn.


----------



## rad457

Parcel at the door this morning, #407 an #113 are here, need to sneak them into the shop Someone want to distract the Boss?


----------



## HokieKen

11+14+15 is a fine lineup Bandit!

Yes CF, that's much better ;-) If it happens again though, you will definitely be punished to fullest extent of my abilities ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Pictures…









Sargent VBM No. 414c….Ash needs jointed…









And glue joints needed flattened out…









So the Stanley No.3, T-11 can smooth things out…nice and shiny…









Twas a 2 plane day…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

CF, i have a spare Stanley shoulder plane (Made in England) if you're interested. Reasonably priced. PM if you's like, no pressure.


----------



## rad457

First out of the box


----------



## rad457

Then found this little guy hiding


----------



## theoldfart

Nice side wheeler Andre. I designed a couple of tables just so I could use the plane, I do so like curves!


----------



## HokieKen

Cool 113 Andre! I think you've already used it more than most people ever do. Not more than Kev but more than most people ;-)


----------



## corelz125

Didn't waste any time putting them to work


----------



## rad457

They sort of appeared on this thread while I was building the last night stand and while the spoke shave worked the visions of that #113 grew quite strong, sort of like the Pic of a #62 shaving end grain on a cutting board????? 
As for the #407, it is in beautiful condition and the new PMV-11 iron is already on order!(plus another 2" for one of them #5s, or maybe the M./F.s #14?)


----------



## rad457

Played with the #113 today, tuned up the blade tested it on some Oak! I think it passed!









Gave the #407 blade some attention while I wait for the iron to show up, seemed to work okay?


----------



## theoldfart

Sweet shavings.


----------



## bandit571

Almost doesn't NEED a new iron…does it?


----------



## Notw

At the suggestion of this forum I bought and restored a Stanley no. 5, then next thing I know a Stanley No. 3 shows up to restore which I mostly have done and also a brand new Stanley sweetheart 60-1/2. Now I am looking for more planes, a no. 6 and maybe even No. 5-1/4 and No. 5-1/2 and No 4-1/2….when will this madness end, no one told me it was addictive???


----------



## Karda

It will never end there is always one more tool you just have to have sit back and enjoy the ride


----------



## rad457

> At the suggestion of this forum I bought and restored a Stanley no. 5, then next thing I know a Stanley No. 3 shows up to restore which I mostly have done and also a brand new Stanley sweetheart 60-1/2. Now I am looking for more planes, a no. 6 and maybe even No. 5-1/4 and No. 5-1/2 and No 4-1/2….when will this madness end, no one told me it was addictive???
> 
> - Notw


LOL! Too late after the second one, it is all over but the attempt to hide them from the boss 
Made some inquiries about a #98 & #99 today?


----------



## Notw

> LOL! Too late after the second one, it is all over but the attempt to hide them from the boss
> Made some inquiries about a #98 & #99 today?
> 
> - Andre


 The boss bought the No. 3….I fear I may be in too deep.


----------



## HokieKen

Welcome Notw. I would suggest you pick a niche and stick with it for now. IE all Stanleys of a certain type (or range of types) and build a full set. I went with Millers Falls and to add a little flavor to the mix, I set very favorable budget limits for each size and didn't exceed them. So in the end, I occupied myself for about 4 years building a set of bench planes (with the exception of 2 sizes that are much rarer).

Then Mos made me buy a couple of combination planes.

Then Smitty made me buy a knuckle cap block plane.

Now Andre's trying to make me buy a compass plane.

And several of these demons want me to look at 98 and 99 planes. I simply don't need those though. So I probably won't buy them. Probably…


----------



## donwilwol

Haha, he picked a niche, hand planes. LOL

My suggestion is pick a number, a low number. Maybe 50. And when you got 49 you can't buy another untill you sell one.

Or pick a niche AND a number.

And Good luck.


----------



## HokieKen

Speak of the devil… look what was waiting on the porch


----------



## corelz125

Don why didn't you tell me that 350 planes ago? The only way it ends is wgen you run out of money but then you sell one or two to buy another one. Stay away from the guys here they are all enablers. Smitty made me go find a #444.


----------



## Mosquito

I feel your pain corelz


----------



## Karda

This group made me buy my planes as well. I wanted a #4 that seemed to be the go to plane in most projects. I advertised on craigs list and was offered a #3 i bought it knowing it would do the job. Did I stop there, no after continuing in this group I found three planes 2 4s and a 9 1/2 block plane. I sold one of the 4s. they also made me buy my Sargent Hercules. This is a very expensive group to belong to, but it is so much fun and very informative Thanks for the enabling


----------



## Ocelot

There is hope of recovery. I bought my first ebay plane in 2014, and haven't bought any at all this year.


----------



## Ocelot

Of course, after the 26 or 30 Bailey bench planes, went to block planes, specialty planes, spokeshaves, hatchets even hammers… Oh, and chisels, drawknives, uhh and… Woodies… Some other stuff…

...but nothing this year at all!


----------



## corelz125

Ocelot thats the first step take it day by day. 5 days and counting huh?


----------



## drsurfrat

> There is hope of recovery. I bought my first ebay plane in 2014, and haven t bought any at all this year.
> - Ocelot


Maybe for you, I have over 100 and can't decide which to give up.
Hey, wait, we're only 5 days into the year. -some of us are thicker than others


----------



## HokieKen

How would all the frequenters of this thread feel about doing a secret plane Santa?

What I propose is that everyone who wants to play will be assigned another participant at random. And for Christmas 2021, you send your person a plane. It has to be a plane but other than that, nothing is off limits.

However there is a spending cap. I'm thinking $30-$50. And you can only send one plane and it has to be one you buy between now and then.

To me, the fun would be in trying to score the coolest plane under the spending cap  You can use as much, or as little elbow grease as you like on the plane. But can absolutely not spend a dime over the spending cap. That includes buying replacement parts. Shipping would be outside the spending limit.

Any interest? If there's enough, I'd be glad to organize and oversee it.


----------



## Notw

So far I am sticking to Stanley planes (first plane I got was my granddads Stanley no. 4 and it was in horrible shape when I got it) right now my plan is to get a set of Stanley hand planes from 3-6 with the half and quarter sizes. No 1 is a unicorn and no 2 is still a bit pricey.


----------



## HokieKen

> There is hope of recovery. I bought my first ebay plane in 2014, and haven t bought any at all this year.
> 
> - Ocelot


Well, I made an offer on a MF 33 block plane today but it was rejected so I'm still clean for the year too. The one I got today was purchased last year so it doesn't count


----------



## HokieKen

#2s are cheaper now than they ever will be again Notw ;-)


----------



## donwilwol

Did someone mention stick to one niche?










At least I have to tools


----------



## drsurfrat

Ah, the RABBET hole. A set of 3-6, but don't they all have to have high knobs or low knobs? Does one SW make the others mismatched? Personally, a No 8 has no comparison for heft, so you can't leave that out. (I sent you a long-winded PM)

Kenny, I'd be up for that, but I'd want the option to use one of my existing ones instead of buying another.


----------



## rad457

> #2s are cheaper now than they ever will be again Notw ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Well,,,,, that 407 wasn't what I'd call Cheap
I suppose you are talking U.S. $, come to think about it I did buy a 604 for $30.00 CAN.


----------



## corelz125

Then you find out I can use a router plane, then it's I really need a shoulder plane, then hey this Sargent auto set looks interesting before you know it you have 4 of those.


----------



## Lazyman

A swap might be kind of fun Kenny.


----------



## ac0rn

I'm in for Santa


----------



## Mosquito

considering my shop involves woodworking, plane collecting, CNC, computer building/watercooling, computer case building/modifying, and saxophone playing (is it collecting if a person were to have 3 different saxophones? Asking for a friend). I'd say I've got a niche problem too lol


----------



## Karda

yes three is a collection technically but do you have the urge to have more saxs


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

five guitars a collection?

and I probably have a mitrebox collection.

dozens and dozens of hand saws… guilty.

chisel sets? not going there.

a hundred planes? who has a hundred handplanes?
(does that include blocks and woodies?)
let's say one may have in the neighborhood of a hundred planes… does it HAVE to be called a collection?

I'd be IN for that swap, kenny


----------



## Mosquito

.... no? lol

Other than a Bari.

And then maybe add a Bass, Contrabass, Subcontrabass, Sopranino, and Sopranissimo…

And C-melody.

something called a Tubax…

and if you've made it that far, might as well see about tracking down a Ophicleide not in a museum as a long term goal…


----------



## ac0rn

"yes three is a collection technically…" 
Well gee whiz then I have a collection of socks too. 4 wool, 20 cotton, and 4 plane socks. Sometimes I have the urge for more wool socks.


----------



## Mosquito

I've got 3 pairs of wool socks too, but they're all different types and varying degrees of "heavy". They're all practical, I swear 

(it's true, smart wool, my "it's kinda cold outside and I have to shovel", and my "going snowmobiling" socks  )


----------



## ac0rn

Are they all matched sets? Can never figure out how they become unmatched. My collection actually an odd number.


----------



## Notw

> #2s are cheaper now than they ever will be again Notw ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


oh i see the enabling starting already


----------



## Notw

> Are they all matched sets? Can never figure out how they become unmatched. My collection actually an odd number.
> 
> - Jeff


is it better to have an even number or an odd number? haha


----------



## KentInOttawa

> "yes three is a collection technically…"
> Well gee whiz then I have a collection of socks too. 4 wool, 20 cotton, and 4 plane socks. Sometimes I have the urge for more wool socks.
> 
> - Jeff


Did you just say "plane socks"? I've got some of those; they came with an old E Preston bullnose rabbet and a Stanley 140 that I bought. I've thought about getting some more, but my other priorities keep getting in the way.


----------



## drsurfrat

> ...
> might as well see about tracking down a Ophicleide not in a museum as a long term goal…
> 
> - Mosquito


apparently there's not just one:


----------



## HokieKen

Looks like some interest for the *HPOYD Secret Santa 2021* 

I propose the following:


"Registration" will be open through March. Register by shooting me an e-mail at [email protected] that contains your LJ username, your real name, and your mailing address. Also let me know if you *ARE NOT* willing to ship to Canada. I'll send out name assignments first week of April. 
Secret Santa will only be open to members in North America (US and Canada). Shipping and customs can get very convoluted and expensive going overseas unfortunately.
Rules as follows:
Spending cap of $40 USD (Canadians use the current exchange rate when you purchase your plane). Any shipping costs to get the plane and to send the plane to your recipient are your responsibility and are outside of the spending cap. $40 has to cover the full package though. Any replacement parts etc. must be included. In other words *do not spend more than $40 excluding shipping*. If you have replacement parts on-hand, you must include them in your spending at a reasonable market price. 
If you already possess a plane you would like to send instead of buying another, that is perfectly fine. If that's the case though, you should be able to remember how much you paid for it and know it was less than $40. If you don't know what you paid for it, you should be confident that if you were to shop for the same plane on Ebay etc. you would be able to purchase another for $40.
You can send any plane (or planes) you wish but it must be a plane or directly plane-related. A jointer fence or shooting board or set of cutters for a combination plane are types of things I would consider plane-related. As far as defining what is a plane, I'll leave it up to each person to decide. Cabinet scrapers? Spokeshaves? I think those qualify. But you can decide for yourself.
The plane you send doesn't have to be complete but does have to be usable in the condition you send it in. You can send a fillester plane that's missing depth stops and the fence because it can be used as a shoulder plane. You can't send a fillester plane without a blade though.
You don't have to consider your time or consumables in your spending (but certainly can if you wish). So if you buy a crusty but complete vintage plane for $40 then spend 6 hours, a few sheets of sandpaper and a rattle can of enamel rehabbing it, you've still met the $40 spending cap. If you spend $40 on a vintage plane and then pay Don W or Sansoo to rehab it for you though, you're a damn cheater ;-)
Your plane should be shipped to your recipient sometime after Thanksgiving but in time to arrive before Christmas. This will make sure that everyone receives their gift around the same time. 
When you receive a plane in the mail, post some pictures here for the rest of us to see and tell us who sent it to you.
If you sign up, don't forget you signed up ;-) If for some reason you wish to drop out, please inform me ASAP because it will require re-shuffling some names around. So just don't drop out.



So that's what I'm thinking. It's definitely a democracy so if you have any better suggestions/ammendments/revisions I'm all ears!


----------



## Mosquito

Mike, I'd probably only want one original, as it's an ancestor to a saxophone, sort of the predecessor, and not actually a reeded saxophone.

At least I can tell myself that. 



> If you spend $40 on a vintage plane and then pay Don W or Sansoo to rehab it for you though, you're a damn cheater ;-)


But what if they are Don W or Sansoo? 

Are shop made planes considered? Ex if you can find iron(s) and accoutrements for under the $40 cap does that count, or strictly a pre-manufactured clause?


----------



## HokieKen

I don't see any problem with shop-made Mos. Long as you don't exceed the spending cap on the materials.


----------



## DLK

I will think about this.


----------



## bandit571

And…for those that do not have Gmail ?

I might have a spare sitting around….


----------



## theoldfart

First time for me Kenny, I'm in.

Also, woodies and tranies included?


----------



## theoldfart

Did anyone see the latest Jim Bode email? Some beautiful mitre planes in it. Just send him your first born!


----------



## Mosquito

He had a couple last week that were pretty cool looking too. I must admit, that it almost seems like his prices have come down for some things as a fair number of them I actually think are decently priced.

The more collector focused things are, though, the higher the price drives pretty quick. Bedrocks and Yankee's being in the thick of it for sure


----------



## HokieKen

Bandit, you don't have to have Gmail. Just send me an e-mail from whatever service you use.

Yep Kev, any kind of plane is fair game.


----------



## Ocelot

Hey Mos,

Off topic comments here…

My brother had a Selmer mark 6 (paris) 1963 tenor. I helped him sell it on ebay a few years ago - got about $6K selling to a Korean. Now a mark 6 barri, whould be the bomb!

I'm a trombone guy myself. I haven't played in years but recently discovered that hungarians really do have bones and have been ligthly lusting for a contra-bass trombone.

I'm sure there are similar sax things out there, but you even hear of Szeged Trombone Ensemble. (Hungarians). Look 'em up on u-toob.

-Paul


----------



## controlfreak

> Bandit, you don t have to have Gmail. Just send me an e-mail from whatever service you use.
> 
> - HokieKen


I think he uses carrier pigeon to avoid the monthly fees.


----------



## sansoo22

I had a feeling rule number 5 was meant for me…then i saw my name in it.

I'm in for the exchange. This sounds like a lot of fun. I gave a few planes as Christmas gifts this year. General consensus was they were too nice to use. That was until they saw my actual users which all look like new but of course get used regularly.

*Notw* - I would highly recommend bumping the #5-1/4 up on the list of planes to get next. My type 15 is tied with my type 9 #7 as my all time favorite planes. I find myself reaching for the #5-1/4 more so than my #5 i keep set up for a smoothing cut.

My type 9 #7 is possibly the worlds greatest plane for flattening large surfaces merely by happy accident. The mouth was machined a tad on the small size forcing the frog to be setup somewhat closer to what a smoother would be. Makes it a pretty mediocre jointer but my god does it handle flattening like a boss. Sure I could file the mouth to fix it but that's where the addiction comes in handy. Why bother messing with something setup to near perfection when you have another #7, 3 #8s, and a #32 that all can joint stock.


----------



## Mosquito

Paul, that's really cool. The Mark 6 is one of the more saught after Selmers. It's common to see them go for a lot more than Selmer's new/current models. I've never lusted after one myself, as I've stuck with Cannonball since I was in highschool, and have no intentions of changing anytime soon

I had to look up Contrabass trombone, as I hadn't heard one played by itself before. I like the sound of it, like the F more than the Bb. Good stuff, thank you


----------



## rad457

This is a swap that I may consider, Maybe someone will find a unloved #62
I think that my #5 1/4 was the first Stanley plane I ever bought?


----------



## controlfreak

Just lurking right now because the rules are so long. I got sleepy reading them.


----------



## HokieKen

You have until March to read em CF ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

That sounds like a fun exercise… what was everyone's first handplane? Mine was a #7


----------



## HokieKen

Mine was a nameless #5 that was pre-lateral. I don't have pictures of the plane or the plane itself any more. The frog was cast into the base and it had a huge mouth. Never could get it to perform consistently.


----------



## DLK

This is my first hand plane a Stanley 71 …










but not the first one that I owned and actually used. It may be this one a Millers Falls 14c…










it is certainly the first one I restored. I found it looking like this:










and it is the plane that got me hooked on hand tools on June 3 2014.


----------



## bandit571

Along with a Stanley #129, and a Stanley #110 ( blue body, chrome cap…)

The 4 horsemen? Stanley Handyman, Great Neck #4, Union #3, and the H-F #33

started out with the Great Neck and the #110….and then the rest kind of followed along….


----------



## Karda

technically my first is this Stanley block plane that I inherited its ok but clogs alot









thr first plane I bought for use and collection was a Stanley#3 type19


----------



## bandit571

> Bandit, you don t have to have Gmail. Just send me an e-mail from whatever service you use.
> 
> Yep Kev, any kind of plane is fair game.
> 
> - HokieKen


A PM was sent….


----------



## Lazyman

I found one of those modern Stanley blocks in the bottom of a box of other stuff I bought at an estate sale. It sat around for over a year because I just assumed it was junk. Once I got it sharp and figured out its quirks it actually works very well and I find myself reaching for it quite quite often.

My first hand plane was a barely used Stanley #4 that I got from my grandfather. If I remember correctly I think that it is a type 19.


----------



## Karda

This plane can cut a nice shaving, trouble is if you have to re adjust the plane for any reason it is a night mare to re adjust, also the shaving brak off and glog the mouth. Yea when it works it does a fabulous job. I figured it was junk because you see similar planes at HF. And I don't trust modern hand tools, not like the old ones


----------



## donwilwol

My first plane was a craftsman block plane. I carried it in my pouch for years.


----------



## HokieKen




----------



## corelz125

I never knew Don was Australian. First plane inherited was a stanley block plane. First one I bought was a new bailey with the plastic handles.


----------



## Ocelot

The first plane I bought was a blue stanley 1985 no 4 with plastic handles from walmart or some such place - just to trim a sticky door in my newly aquired house. I didn't know I needed to sharpen it and it was a bear to do anything with the end-grain part of the top of the door, but I got it done so it didn't stick and put the plane in the top of the closet riight behind that door - where it sat for many years. A couple years ago, I sharpened it up properly and it planes just fine.


----------



## ac0rn

Will we be able to write Santa a letter? Do we have to be good all year?


----------



## ac0rn

The first was a Stanley 60 1/2 block plane. Still in use.


----------



## theoldfart

First plane was my grandfathers MF 9, it's still here.


----------



## corelz125

It seems our grandfather's were the first enablers. That's who I inherited my first block plane from


----------



## bandit571

Handy Andy gave me my first "block plane" came in a sheet metal tool box….with a bunch of other "Robin Egg Blue" tools…..About early 60s era?


----------



## Mosquito

I had a hard time letting that KK8 sansoo was cleaning up go. So hard of a time, in fact, I may have bought it…

Some frog adjustment, a quick sharpen, and dust off the old magic poplar (throw back… Where's Dan?)



















And, I adjusted my plans till for the first time in years to accommodate it, unless/until I get rid of my other KK8 (if the sister inlaws boyfriend is still interested)


----------



## sansoo22

^^^ So glad to see it found a very happy home. Those shavings are gorgeous and much better than I was able to achieve with it. The KK series was a little outside my wheel house to get tuned correctly. I might try again with a smaller size like a KK4…something not so big and bulky while I fiddle around and figure it out.

Who knows maybe the stars will align and I will find a KK4 and get you for the Secret Santa Plane Swap.


----------



## Mosquito

It performs wonderfully. It tuned up right away; all I did was adjust the frog, give it a quick sharpen, set the chip breaker back up and went. I spent probably 15 minutes just making shavings. There's no real reason a #8 needs to make shavings like that, but that's beside the point lol I free-handed the back bevel while sharpening and it actually seemed to work better than I thought it would (the free-hand part).

I could send you a KK4 to mess around with, as long as it comes back looking like this #8 XD


----------



## controlfreak

My firs plane is a Craftsman jack that my father had. It never worked well because I had no idea about sharpening. It was only after seeing a Stanley Bailey No. 5 on a bench while wheeling out a 6" jointer and said "I'll give you $25 for that". I have learned to hone now and use both. That was about twenty seven planes ago and another is inbound.


----------



## HokieKen

That's a nice shaving ya got there Mos!

We're up to 6 Secret Santas already. 8 if I count Mos and Smitty even though haven't officially signed up ;-)

Seeing Mos' till reminds me of an idea I was pondering for a new till when we were discussing them last week. I'm thinking about taking a piece of 3/4" plywood and inlaying some of those Harbor Freight magnetic tool bars. Then installing a couple of strips of t-track like Mos has so I can install vertical dividers wherever needed and they would be easily configurable. Something like this:









Then I would put a thin piece of veneer over the whole thing. Obviously, I'd have to cut the veneer to keep the t-track slots open.

So now I have a till that I can install completely vertically since I have magnets at 3 places instead of just one under the toe. And I have the vertical dividers that are configurable. But I still need a block at the bottom of each plane to keep it from sliding off. And I'd want those configurable as well. So I'm not coming up with a good way of doing that. Maybe when I make the vertical dividers I just pin nail horizontal ones between them? Just feels a little less configurable.

Or maybe I just forget configurable and make up my mind about which planes I want to keep in the till and not buy any more? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## Mosquito

that's the same struggle I have Kenny lol How configurable do I make it…

For my bottom edge, I used a piece of wood with a grove cut in it screwed to the bottom edge of the plywood. The groove is there to prevent the planes from being able to slip off of it (I'm not sure if it would have been an issue or not, but still)










And for my vertical dividers I used 80/20 because back then I didn't have anything/want to cut the pieces down myself, and could get them pre-cut to different lengths (12", 18", 24"), that corresponded to the spacing on my inlaid t-track. I just drilled holes in to the 80/20 where I needed to for mounting them to the t-track










This allowed me to put bolts anywhere along the vertical dividers as well, to have additional flexibility, and allowing stacked planes, adding a hook (I used just some longer bolts with nuts as hangers for things like my cabinet scraper, spoke shaves, mallet, etc)

I was actually just looking at it last night after adjusting the til to fit the new KK8. I may just keep the idea, but use regular t-track instead of the 80/20, now that I can cut it down pretty easily. the regular t-track is 1/4" narrower than the 80/20 is. Unless someone happens to know of an aluminum t-slot that fits something like 6-32 or 8-32 hex bolts


----------



## Mosquito

Here's an example zoomed in from the picture last night. I made that quick horizontal divider for the 101. It's literally just a 1/8" scrap of plywood with a hole drilled in it. Above that is the scraper handing from just a t-bolt










Now that I think about it, if you made those horizontal dividers right you could do basically what I did for that horizontal divider, but make it both a retainer for the plane below and a stop for the plane above. Make it so the end of the plane slips under it, and then in to its bottom groove, and holds the top in place (like removing slider windows)


----------



## bandit571

Well..there is always..









out with the"old"..and, in with..









The New & Improved, fully enclosed Plane til…









Smaller bench planes are 3 deep on the soft pine shelves…larger ones are only 2 deep…









Block planes go either into the drawers, or fill in the spaces inbetween the planes on the shelves….Be sure to close the doors when done…


----------



## controlfreak

I am nervous about a completely vertical magnetic till. Every wall of my shop is an outside wall and if a ball hits it or I bump a long piece of stock into the wall I know what could happen. I think I may opt for a small lip at the bottom and a rare earth mag on the other end and an angle that may be steep but can work in theory without the magnet. I think I am going to build a prototype first to see how I like it.

Mos, how did you arrive at the handle up arrangement? Do like it or do you find it awkward? I have thought about this to save room if I go with a cabinet. If I can get in the habit of closing the doors I plan on putting something in the wedge area behind the till to absorb moisture.


----------



## HokieKen

Interesting Mos. I hadn't thought about using metal track for the vertical dividers. I was just planning to cut some wood strips and drill holes corresponding to the track location. But, if I used t-track as the dividers, that would solve my problem with configurable horizontal stops. 3/4" eats up a lot of space though. I'd have to think about whether that would work or not.


----------



## HokieKen

CF, when I designed my till, I found the center of mass of my#7 plane and given the length determined that it would balance somewhere around 4 degrees IIRC. So at that angle, any kind of impulse could cause it to topple backwards. So I angled mine around 7 degrees with the magnets added. I'm not sure if I'll go totally vertical with the next one or not. It would be a little nerve-wracking…


----------



## Mosquito

> Interesting Mos. I hadn t thought about using metal track for the vertical dividers. I was just planning to cut some wood strips and drill holes corresponding to the track location. But, if I used t-track as the dividers, that would solve my problem with configurable horizontal stops. *3/4" eats up a lot of space though.* I d have to think about whether that would work or not.
> 
> - HokieKen


That is why I've often thought I would skip doing t-track vertical dividers if I did a redo, and just use wood spacers that I drilled for the bolts. But then, with a 1/4" bolt, your piece would probably still have to be at least 1/2" wide.

I'm rolling some ideas around in my head now lol


----------



## HokieKen

I'd use #10 screws and t-nuts and probably 5/16" wide dividers. I think my dividers now are 3/8" and if I go any wider than that, I won't have room to add a #8 size if a MF24 should ever cross my path…


----------



## controlfreak

This has me thinking about using brads or pins for the verticals and screws in the horizontal brackets where strength counts. It shouldn't be difficult to rearrange on the porotype model this way.


----------



## HokieKen

That's how my current till is built CF. I made the base then laid the planes out and used my nail gun to put some dividers and stops in place. After 4 or 5 years, it's still holding strong.


----------



## Mosquito

I did the same for my Siegley case, just glue and brads with 1/4" square stock
and on the travel plane til, I didn't even use the brads


----------



## theoldfart

I still have a vast majority of my planes in the chests. I keep a mitre plane and a coffin smother on the bench. Only issue at the current time is the cat sleeps on the cabinet makers chest where most of the iron plants are stored!


----------



## rad457

My first till had dividers, that one is in the wall cabinet, then made a small daily user on the end of bench after seeing something that "Fridge" posted. It sits on the bottom shelf, no separation dividers, just angled and magnets, mine are heel down? Thinking I might just use thin strips of wood and attach with some double side tape to separate the Millers falls from the Winchesters as they seem to fight a lot, and laughed the #2/407 right out of the till?
Built a new LARGER one for the back of the bench using same principal but still contemplating how best to incorporate some storage of all these extra block planes that keep showing up As for the #113 looks like I am going to have to make some room in the wall cabinet, it don't balance any which way?


----------



## HokieKen

Alright, who has a 196 plane? Kev? Smitty? Bandit?

Well, if you don't, it's your lucky day! You're welcome ;-)


----------



## bandit571

I think I'll pass…..


----------



## rad457

I put in an offer for $40.00, maybe a secret Santa Plane?


----------



## Mosquito

why buy that crappy old thing when you could buy this one


----------



## KentInOttawa

I would like to thank Kenny for fabricated a screw to retain the side plate on my 140. I actually used the plane this morning without the side plate, so the plane was already out on the bench when the mail with the screw in it arrived. Just shy of a month to travel from WV to Ottawa, ON.










Here is the new screw in the old plane. They're playing nicely, together.


----------



## Mosquito

Bandit, I really like that cabinet for your planes, and while it's very space efficient, I'm not sure I'd like the idea of having to move planes to get to the ones in the back. The two-deep shelves wouldn't be too bad because I've got two hands, but the 3-deep would probably result in me being lazy and trying to grab the one from the back and knocking at least one of the other two out lol


----------



## Ocelot

> why buy that crappy old thing when you could buy this one
> 
> - Mosquito


I'm thinking you could buy a big 'ol CNC router to do the job for that money!


----------



## HokieKen

Wow, that took a minute Kent. Glad to see it finally arrived and that it works like it should though!

Yep, that's why I linked the Ebay one Mos - cause it's such a bargain! ;-)



> I m thinking you could buy a big ol CNC router to do the job for that money!
> 
> - Ocelot


If I understand that plane correctly Paul, a rabbeting bit in a plane old handheld router will accomplish the same thing. No CNC required!


----------



## controlfreak

It's the free shipping that makes this a deal!


----------



## bandit571

> Bandit, I really like that cabinet for your planes, and while it s very space efficient, I m not sure I d like the idea of having to move planes to get to the ones in the back. The two-deep shelves wouldn t be too bad because I ve got two hands, but the 3-deep would probably result in me being lazy and trying to grab the one from the back and knocking at least one of the other two out lol
> 
> - Mosquito


The "3 Deep" is for the #3 and #4 planes, only…..it works because I "rotate" planes through..picking one for each project, then the rest can be ready for the next project…as I then put the frshly resharpened plane in behind the next ones in line….Keeps dust from piling up on the ones in the case, while they wait their turn..


----------



## Ocelot

Here's a type 10 No 8. I had no idea what the prices are doing these days! I paid about $55 for mine.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Stanley-Bailey-No-8-1902-Wodworking-Plane-Vintage-Carpenters-Tool/233838895246?hash=item3671e2608e:g:WbsAAOSwcbpf6l8H


----------



## donwilwol

> Here s a type 10 No 8. I had no idea what the prices are doing these days! I paid about $55 for mine.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Stanley-Bailey-No-8-1902-Wodworking-Plane-Vintage-Carpenters-Tool/233838895246?hash=item3671e2608e:g:WbsAAOSwcbpf6l8H
> 
> - Ocelot


YIKES!!


----------



## sansoo22

> Here s a type 10 No 8. I had no idea what the prices are doing these days! I paid about $55 for mine.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Stanley-Bailey-No-8-1902-Wodworking-Plane-Vintage-Carpenters-Tool/233838895246?hash=item3671e2608e:g:WbsAAOSwcbpf6l8H
> 
> - Ocelot


Wow…now I need to debate whether or not to sell my type 10 no 8. I dont think I could because I'm a sucker for sapwood handles and it has them on both the knob and tote. I also have a type 10 no 5 to match so I guess I have to keep it.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> Here s a type 10 No 8. I had no idea what the prices are doing these days! I paid about $55 for mine.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Stanley-Bailey-No-8-1902-Wodworking-Plane-Vintage-Carpenters-Tool/233838895246?hash=item3671e2608e:g:WbsAAOSwcbpf6l8H
> 
> - Ocelot


Double YIKES!!
That is not even a Bedrock version.

Don't understand fleabay plane bidding.
At least this 605-1/4 is rare:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-VINTAGE-STANLEY-BEDROCK-WOOD-PLANE-605-1-4-RARE-11-3-8-LONG-SWEETHEART/293943833204?

?


----------



## Ocelot

The last $150 are two bidders. The other 6 dropped out below 200. All it takes to run up an auction is two bidders that want that thing today. It *is* a nice one though.


----------



## Mosquito

Holy crap… maybe it's time I actually unload my Type 11's…


----------



## sansoo22

> Holy crap… maybe it s time I actually unload my Type 11 s…
> 
> - Mosquito


The prices on type 11s has been stupid high lately too. I saw a user grade #3 go for $110 just before Thanksgiving. I dropped out at $65. I do like using the type 11s quite a lot but not at collector pricing.


----------



## Mosquito

Needless to say, I don't use mine anymore…










They were my first set, then the Keen Kutter, then #45s, and finally the Siegleys

Siegleys probably have the second best storage of all those










And the 45s living the high life










(Keen Kuterrs in the til)


----------



## drsurfrat

Kent, do you need a knob for that 140? I have a few. I think they are all rosewood even the lighter dry one. You might want that one, it'll have interesting grain once you oil/finsih it. Even if it takes a month to get there, free is a pretty good price.


----------



## corelz125

The price on #8s has gone up a lot lately but that is straight lunacy. Wow Mos that's like a museum show piece. That's not bad Kenny it takes almost the same amount of time getting from NY to VA or southern NY to northern NY. The ebay "rare" description is great. They claim it's a rare plane but I have 3 of them.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Mile - Thanks. PM en route.


----------



## Lazyman

> That s a nice shaving ya got there Mos!
> 
> We re up to 6 Secret Santas already. 8 if I count Mos and Smitty even though haven t officially signed up ;-)
> 
> Seeing Mos till reminds me of an idea I was pondering for a new till when we were discussing them last week. I m thinking about taking a piece of 3/4" plywood and inlaying some of those Harbor Freight magnetic tool bars. Then installing a couple of strips of t-track like Mos has so I can install vertical dividers wherever needed and they would be easily configurable. Something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I would put a thin piece of veneer over the whole thing. Obviously, I d have to cut the veneer to keep the t-track slots open.
> 
> So now I have a till that I can install completely vertically since I have magnets at 3 places instead of just one under the toe. And I have the vertical dividers that are configurable. But I still need a block at the bottom of each plane to keep it from sliding off. And I d want those configurable as well. So I m not coming up with a good way of doing that. Maybe when I make the vertical dividers I just pin nail horizontal ones between them? Just feels a little less configurable.
> 
> Or maybe I just forget configurable and make up my mind about which planes I want to keep in the till and not buy any more? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> - HokieKen


Perhaps Just make the dividers out of steel or with piece of steel hidden inside so that they stick to the magnets and forget the T-track? I'm thinking that I might make small trays that can be moved around. My current plan is to hang them on the wall. And I think that the problem is not that it needs to be just configurable. It needs to be expandable too. It will always need room for one more plane but I don't want to have unused space nagging me to put something in an empty spot.


----------



## Mosquito

> It needs to be expandable too. It will always need room for one more plane but I don t want to have unused space nagging me to put something in an empty spot.
> 
> - Lazyman


Nathan, you've got a good point there lol


----------



## donwilwol

User grade plane prices are up right now. It might be because of covid. More home time and resellers can't get out to pick. And type 11 and 10 were always sought after. I had a complete set of 11s but sold them a few years ago.


----------



## corelz125

Andre I talked to a guy in one Facebook group that has a 514 but it's missing a part. He said he paid $5 for it at a garage sale. Now might list it for $600.


----------



## rad457

> Andre I talked to a guy in one Facebook group that has a 514 but it s missing a part. He said he paid $5 for it at a garage sale. Now might list it for $600.
> 
> - corelz125


So there is some Henry Greene DNA on it?
WAY outa my pay scale, missing a part, what the Lever cap? Looked at a #62 with a chipped mouth and they still wanted $300.00 U.S. 
New Veritas L.A.J. is $309.00 CAN. + tax, any time I have used one they sort of feel awkward?
Like the idea of the vintage aspect, value should increase, with my skill set tis only a want or a whim not a need


----------



## BillWhite

I'll jump in with my first plane. A #4C Stanley that was "as found". Got it in 1968. It was clean, but not really set up properly. Didn't use it a bunch until I really started learning how to sharpen and adjust. The collection has grown (as we all can say) to include a 3, 5 1/2, 7, 60 1/2, a 4 type 11, 75, and on.
Living in the plane wasteland (Mississippi) as I do, good planes/styles are hard to come by, but have added as I find them.


----------



## Ocelot

To show how far I am from the mosquito museum, 
Here's my plane til


















And contents…









10 & 11


----------



## corelz125

He thinks the part that is missing was loose and fell out. I think he's wrong it's the part the iron adjuster threads into.


----------



## Mosquito

I've got my share of less than glamorous tool storage too lol



















Those are some of the things I need to make storage for so I can get rid of this second set of base cabinets.

First I was groovin'










Then I was groovin'



















Marples M44. Quality not so great, but I like it. I kind of want a Record 044, to see if they're better quality, so I started looking but dang…

Thinking Record over Stanley because they look to have nicer blade hold down and adjustment features


----------



## HokieKen

I tell you what I won't be sending out in the Secret Santa, a Stanley 100-1/2. I've bid on at least fifteen of them in the past couple months and haven't been close on any. I thought I had a shot today when I was winning with an hour to go. Then it sold for almost double my bid. Damn things must be awful handy!


----------



## Karda

can I brag here is my plane till such as it is


----------



## Karda

some times somebody wants it and is willing to pay any amount, and screws the rest of us normal people


----------



## bandit571

We have work to do..









Supplies have been bought, bench has been cleared off…now that the wood working project is done…for now









Christmas Cap Iron? Underside is red…is in Millers Falls Cardinal Red…









That's bits of Newspaper rusted into the sole….sole also has a twist…flunked the 2-finger test..









Need to clean up that King-sized bed for the iron….Hmmmmm, what colour to match that knob….most of the Blue/Black paint is flaking off…









Sides are a bit….rough…

Might take a day to do…..


----------



## RWE

Mos:

Was just out rust hunting. Found the first KK series plane that I have seen in the wild. A KK65 block plane. I know that you collect the larger KK planes and favor the thick irons. What can you tell me about this block plane. Who actually made the KK series? I could not spot a KK65 on Ebay, so I am assuming they are kind of rare? Any info would be helpul. Looks like it will make a good user.



















It has the low bed angle like a Stanley 60 1/2.










It is larger, the same size as a Millers Falls #75 which measures 7 inches long and just under 2 inches wide.

This gives me 4 adjustable mouth block planes. Stanley 9 1/2, Millers Falls 75, Stanley 60 1/2, and now the KK65.


----------



## HokieKen

Looks to be the equivalent of Stanley 65-1/2 RWE. Which is the same as 60-1/2 with a wider iron and longer sole. Sharp looking fellow and should be a fine user! Is the iron thicker on the KK block planes too?


----------



## RWE

Maybe Don W. will provide some more info, but in Googling about it, I ran across a 2016 posting from this crazy sounding site called Lumberjocks. where Don W linked his Time Tested Tools page on Ohio Tools.

The cap on the one I picked up today is definitely different from the one shown in that posting, so I hope it is the authentic cap.

I will check the iron thickness, but I don't think it is any thicker. Was made by Ohio Tools and they went out of business in 1920. So unless the Keen Kutter series was continued to be made after Ohio Tools went out of business, it should be a hundred years old. Until I read the posting from 2016, I had not noticed the "Norris" style lateral adjuster. That seems to work well. I have to sharpen it up and clean it a bit.

Maybe Don or Mos can comment, but I get the impression that the Ohio Tools planes stood on their own and were not copies of other planes. I don't have a Stanley 65 to compare it to. The Norris style adjuster and the way the cap fastens down seem very Non-Stanley.


----------



## crmitchell

Question:

Several months ago I received 3 really nice Stanleys from a neighbor that had belonged to her father. (see my projects). I restored them, even to the point of duplicating the original Stanley formula for the japanning, but lacked the time to sharpen at that time.

Today, I pulled out the Bedrock 606, 1910 patent, and started sharpening; it needed some serious work. As I worked through the grits, I began to see a line, suggesting a laminated blade. It was very distinct at 800 grit.

I have never noticed anything like this on any of my other Stanleys. The blade is clearly marked 'Stanley.'

Did Stanley actually make a laminated blade ? Or am I imagining something?

CM

BTW, its really a sweet plane


----------



## HokieKen

Ooh, a Norris style adjuster? That is some sweet stuff! Looks like I need a KK block plane search setup on ebay…


----------



## HokieKen

Carey, it's probably just the line where the blade was hardened. I've seen the line you're talking about and I'm notbsure what the heat treat and quench process was but I'm fairly certain the blades aren't laminated.


----------



## RWE

I checked Ebay first. Could not find any listings. I think they are somewhat rare, but probably turn up from time to time. Not being on Ebay made me think more of it.


----------



## drsurfrat

Norris stye as in lateral adjustment? Or just depth?
Very sweet plane regardless.


----------



## RWE

Both, the depth adjustment screw pivots to provide lateral adjustment. Look at the link to Don W.'s article and the the 2016 post to see pictures of the mechanism. Link below:

2016 Lumberjocks posting on KK 65 Block Plane


----------



## bandit571

Type 2 Stanley No. 9-1/2..









The Excelsior body style…


















Side view..









Cap look familiar?


----------



## RWE

Bandit:

If you are saying the cap on the type 2 Stanley 9 1/2 looks like the KK 65 cap, then yes. Sitll not sure there is any relationship other than coincidence. I can see slight differences. Nothing else between the two is similar.

Don W. jump in and referee. Were Ohio Tools derivative of Stanley models or did they create their own designs?



















Has the original iron, Keen Kutter logo:


----------



## sansoo22

> Carey, it's probably just the line where the blade was hardened. I've seen the line you're talking about and I'm notbsure what the heat treat and quench process was but I'm fairly certain the blades aren't laminated.
> 
> - HokieKen


There are laminated Stanley irons out there. I want to say the few examples I have are all pre 1920s…but dont quote me on that as one of them has a sweetheart logo on it. When you grind the primary bevel you can see the lamination line running across it. The few irons I have like this are also devoid a quench line on the face opposite the bevel. Its like the only hardened part is on the bevel side. LJ member *KyToolSmith * knows a lot more about them than me. He's the one that told me why my irons had that "funny" line across the bevel.

I also thought the exact japanning recipe that Stanley used has been lost to time? I know there are some very good recipes out there to mimic as best we can. I've used one myself exactly one time…but then the boss said no more baking japanned planes in the oven. She apparently works to hard keeping the house clean for me to make it smell like fresh asphalt.


----------



## ac0rn

Sansoo- "She apparently works to hard keeping the house clean for me to make it smell like fresh asphalt." 
How about a camp stove oven out in the backyard.


----------



## corelz125

The kk65 block planes were made from 1906 to 1912. They were made by Ohio tools


----------



## corelz125

Mos Keen Kutter had a k64 combination plane but I think Andre might find a 514 before you find a k64.


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos Keen Kutter had a k64 combination plane but I think Andre might find a 514 before you find a k64.
> 
> - corelz125


I'd put a wager on that, but it wouldn't be fair 



















With both rods and the role if irons. No box though.










K64's come up from time to time, though I'd say I've seen more of them than K65's, but I'm also not usually looking for KK block planes


----------



## Mosquito

RWE, I can only find 1 of two of my Keen Kutter related books, (the other one might be out in the shop somewhere).

About all I can do at this point is agree with Corelz, KK65 was 1906-1912, 7" long, 1-3/4" iron. with the wedge and bar logo, per what yours has. The illustration shows the lever cap as being stippled, but that doesn't necessarily mean they didn't come with out it too. I do know that Ohio sometimes tended to use slightly less pernounced stippling than Stanley did

Not saying it means anything, but I did see this one


----------



## donwilwol

That block plane was made by Ohio. They did switch to Stanley at some point ,(corelz is probably rightht)

And Stanley did make a laminated blade. I'm not sure when they started


----------



## HokieKen

Well I be danged. Laminated irons, I learned something.


----------



## corelz125

Nice Mos I guess Andre still has to keep looking.


----------



## rad457

> Nice Mos I guess Andre still has to keep looking.
> 
> - corelz125


Looking at a Stanley #62 on Flee-Bay,but it will most likely go past what I am willing to spend


----------



## donwilwol

> Nice Mos I guess Andre still has to keep looking.
> 
> - corelz125
> 
> Looking at a Stanley #62 on Flee-Bay,but it will most likely go past what I am willing to spend
> 
> - Andre


What's the "willing to spend" price?


----------



## crmitchell

I played with it a bit more today, honing down to 3000 grit, and the demarcation line shows up even more clearly. Note that the dark area is the reflection of the camera.

Here's a couple of photos, never mastered inserting a photo in a forum post, so I just set up a new project.

https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/418118

I did notice that the back of the iron is wavy, have never seen this before, I suspect it resulted from rolling the 2 laminations together while red hot. One day, I will go back and get it flat for more than the 1/2" at the tip.



> Carey, it's probably just the line where the blade was hardened. I've seen the line you're talking about and I'm notbsure what the heat treat and quench process was but I'm fairly certain the blades aren't laminated.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> There are laminated Stanley irons out there. I want to say the few examples I have are all pre 1920s…but dont quote me on that as one of them has a sweetheart logo on it. When you grind the primary bevel you can see the lamination line running across it. The few irons I have like this are also devoid a quench line on the face opposite the bevel. Its like the only hardened part is on the bevel side. LJ member *KyToolSmith * knows a lot more about them than me. He s the one that told me why my irons had that "funny" line across the bevel.
> 
> I also thought the exact japanning recipe that Stanley used has been lost to time? I know there are some very good recipes out there to mimic as best we can. I ve used one myself exactly one time…but then the boss said no more baking japanned planes in the oven. She apparently works to hard keeping the house clean for me to make it smell like fresh asphalt.
> 
> - sansoo22


----------



## crmitchell

The japanning recipe I used is supposedly the original - I have no way of knowing. Very simple formula, asphaltum dissolved in varnish. I did dissolve the asphaltum in a little acetone first, as it would have taken forever to dissolve in the varnish; the acetone evaporates very fast and does not affect anything. On one of the planes the stuff was too thick and I got brush marks, so I quickly grabbed a spray bottle and sprayed the surface with acetone - it leveled out almost instantly and ended up up perfect.

The first coat goes on brown, but that disappears after the second coat.

I did try the aerosol engine enamel on an old junk plane and did not like the look at all.

Oh, and it does not require an oven, although that would probably make it a little harder; I suspect the difference is small and would likely be evened out over time. Like your house, no way its going in the oven.


----------



## sansoo22

> Sansoo- "She apparently works to hard keeping the house clean for me to make it smell like fresh asphalt."
> How about a camp stove oven out in the backyard.
> 
> - Jeff


I hadn't thought about this idea yet. That might be a way to experiment a little more while I wait for a more permanent solution. When we get the funds together to redo the electrical in the house I want to carve out a corner of the basement for my tool restoration area. The idea is to put in a 220 outlet so I can craigslist an oven just for baking planes. Oh and of course an exhaust fan I can run to make sure the fumes go outside.


----------



## corelz125

The trick is you have to bake the planes when nobody is home then leave before they get home. Then come in and ask what did you burn.


----------



## sansoo22

> The trick is you have to bake the planes when nobody is home then leave before they get home. Then come in and ask what did you burn.
> 
> - corelz125


This literally made me laugh out loud. I really want to do this now.


----------



## rad457

> Nice Mos I guess Andre still has to keep looking.
> 
> - corelz125
> 
> Looking at a Stanley #62 on Flee-Bay,but it will most likely go past what I am willing to spend
> 
> - Andre
> 
> What s the "willing to spend" price?
> 
> - Don W


LOL! Good question with the exchange rate and shipping cost hard to put a what would I pay for it answer, especially if it not late at night and I am sober I keep dreaming of finding a deal like the $30.00 CAN. 604 Bedrock!
Now if you had a 514 It may require a few drinks an a buy it now and who really needs food anyways attitude?
Curious what makes that Sargent 409 worth so much?


----------



## Karda

i know it would be inconvenient but make a place out doors to backe your planes. Does it need to be a range oven could you use a large toaster oven for small planes any way


----------



## corelz125

Karda anything can be used as long as you have some control of the temp. Toaster over, grill, how hot does an ez bake oven get?


----------



## sansoo22

> i know it would be inconvenient but make a place out doors to backe your planes. Does it need to be a range oven could you use a large toaster oven for small planes any way
> 
> - Karda


Corelz is right that anything that produces heat and has temp controls will work. The issue would be fitting a #7 or #8 in a toaster oven. I restore planes because I like doing it and because the profits help me fund other tool purchases. Or as it usually happens funds a rare or expensive plane. A lot of wood workers are willing to tackle a restore on a 3, 4, or 5 and some of mine will sit on ebay for almost a month before selling. On the flip side the larger planes tend to only sit a week at most. While the process is the same for restoring a larger plane the scale of them tends to make it much more daunting. When I can find the large sizes in the wild I know I have a money maker on my hands and tend to buy them all. If/when I can switch to authentic japanning I want to make sure I'm geared up to handle the large planes. You technically don't need to bake them but then I would have to keep them in inventory while the japanning hardens enough its ready to be used.


----------



## Karda

if heating is not that critical could you build a hot box like for drying wood, you could make it any size you want., an easy bake oven is kinda small would work for smaller block planes


----------



## controlfreak

I wonder if a heat lamp would do?


----------



## donwilwol

If you follow Greg over at https://aplanelife.us/ he uses a toaster over. He even put 2 together so he could do longer planes. He also has free classes he shows how to Japan.


----------



## bandit571

Been using a few tools, today…Old Grinder to remove dirt and other junk, and bad paint jobs..









Brass wire wheel, and a cloth buffer wheel….Sanding center to flatten the sole and sides..









Bunch of other wire wheels, to get into where the grinder's large wheel can't..









Drill Press and the flex shaft Dremel….









Coat of primer…including that painted knob…and…









Base has a dimple, dead-centered in the iron's bed….Iron will need ground a bit…









Back has a few pits to remove…we have ways…









And a "Finishing Schedule"..of sorts…









Black for the base….Red Pepper Red for the cap iron and wheel,...knob? Red or Black?









Letting the primer dry a day….then clean off what doesn't need paint….and sharpen that iron…..


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## theoldfart

Ok, I give up. Whatcha' makin' Don?


----------



## HokieKen

I think I'd red pepper the knob too Bandit.

Whatcha got goin there Don?


----------



## bandit571

Pool Cue?


----------



## donwilwol

Arrows. Got to have self made arrows to go with the self bow.


----------



## bandit571

Cloth Yard ones?


----------



## HokieKen

Nice. You are bound to have the most productive case of ADD on the planet ;-)

Wasn't the 212 scraper made originally for arrow making?


----------



## theoldfart

Don, vanes or fletch?


----------



## donwilwol

> Don, vanes or fletch?
> 
> - theoldfart


Feathers. Next set I hope to have real turkey feather but this set will be mail order.


----------



## theoldfart

Impressive. My old set was Easton XX. 75 aluminum with six bladed Wasp Heads, nasty looking things.


----------



## bandit571

Red wheel, red cap iron, red knob…check. leaving the body a gray colour….except for polished sides..check…might look up a V-Line decal for the red cap…..#707?


----------



## rad457

Anybody here running up the Bids on that Stanley #62 ?


----------



## sansoo22

> Anybody here running up the Bids on that Stanley #62 ?
> 
> - Andre


I want to but I leave those to collectors. I'd end up cleaning it all up and making it shine again which would ruin its value.


----------



## controlfreak

> Anybody here running up the Bids on that Stanley #62 ?
> 
> - Andre


No, but I'll get right on it.


----------



## HokieKen

If you want a LAJ for a user, just buy the Veritas. I tried to buy a vintage Stanley for close to two years and watched them consistently sell for the same, or more, than a new Veritas. If you specifically want a Stanley, then keep at it but the Veritas is an excellent tool


----------



## rad457

I still have the Veritas on my wish list and have used it a few times at the store (I have shop privileges at our local Lee Valley store ) I just like the feel of the older planes better? I have the Veritas L.A. #4 smoother (and a few others)already and use it very seldom.
I would comment on the Inheritance value, but got called Stupid (again) on a different thread for collecting tools and not selling them so others can use them, 100% sure been called same on worse by more intelligent people!
Hope he never finds this thread


----------



## sansoo22

I saw that thread Andre. I don't expect my tools to be worth much but I keep a list of the antiques shared with a couple local buddies. That way my family doesn't have to sort thru it all. If prices stay steady or go up I figure there is a decent amount of money in them and I trust these couple guys to treat my family right.

As for the veritas LAJ it's most likely the one I end up with. I want a stanley just because I want it.


----------



## controlfreak

Hey Andre "He who dies with the most tools wins!"

Although I would probably like some new shiny LN or Veritas there is something about the old ones I like. Then Sansoo sends me an old one shined up and I get really conflicted.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree, I like the look and feel of vintage better too. And I really fought against having a single new Veritas in a till full of 80-90 year old Miller Falls planes. But, I'm really happy with the Veritas and really unhappy with what the vintage Stanley's sell for. I'm really GLAD that MF never made a LAJ or I wouldn't really have had any choice in the matter…

And so far, the PM-V11 blade is proving to be worth what it costs. I may end up retrofitting a few of my MF with those irons. I can go at least 3X as long between sharpenings. Probably more than that.

Plus, I found it a spot on the shelf under my workbench so I don't have to see it sticking out like a sore thumb in the till ;-)


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Hey Andre "He who has the most tools without dying wins!"
> 
> Although I would probably like some new shiny LN or Veritas there is something about the old ones I like. Then Sansoo sends me an old one shined up and I get really conflicted.
> 
> - controlfreak


Fixed it for you. ;-)


----------



## rad457

Other than the Veritas DX60 and a apron plane the other Veritas/LN planes hide in the cabinet
The baby Sargent blends right in with the Stanley's, it's PMV-11 iron will be here Wednesday plus another 2" that looks like it going into one of the #5 Baileys?
Looks like that #62 has passed the Veritas price point which usually is my limits unless there is some Scotch involved
My first PMV-11 iron went into a old/new Stanley #60 1/2 and I was hooked, blade worth more than the Plane like the rest of my user Planes


----------



## Mosquito

If you prefer the Stanley over Veritas, then buy LN 

With the value of #62's, I ended up buying a Lie-Nielsen #62 and #164 locally off craigslist a number of years ago. Unless you specifically want the vintage Stanley #62, I agree with Kenny, buy a new one.

I had a slightly different struggle than Kenny. Rather than struggling with a new 62 and 164 in a til full of old tools, I struggled with not trying to make a new til full of new tools in addition to the one full of old tools


----------



## drsurfrat

You guys are NOT helping me pare down my collection.


----------



## rad457

Checked, LN #62 is $300.00 U.S. before import tax(free trade my A#S)? 
Did see a used one on Flea-Bay for $500.00  and a Stanley #64 for $800.00 U.S. 
I will just wait for Kent to find one for me


----------



## HokieKen

I pondered the LN 62 but I really wanted to see what all the fuss was about with the PM-V11 steel. Also, I hate the bronze lever caps. I don't know why, I just hate the look of it. I also liked that the Veritas has a 2-1/4" blade instead of 2".

Dammit Mos. Now I'm thinking about a second till too…


----------



## Notw

note to self stop running up the prices on Stanley No. 6 and start running up the price on Stanley No. 62


----------



## RWE

Have been contemplating a new iron. I have a Hock in my Stanley #4. What PM-V11 iron are you using and do you have a link for the source?


----------



## bandit571

Guess I had better go and hide my WR No. 62…...

Red knob of block plane is NOT turning out very good…..have sanded back a spare to bare wood, and stained it a dark brown colour….Base has a gray M-F V-Line colour….cap and wheel are red….waiting on the undercoat of the cap to dry….

Iron has been sharpened, back flattened….single bevel @ 25 degrees….honed to 2K grit, stropped on the leather belt and the cloth wheel….bed for the iron at the mouth opening is flat, the 2 rests (frog?) have been milled to better support the iron…no wobbles. picture when done? Poplar shavings?


----------



## HokieKen

As far as I know, PM-V11 is a proprietary steel and is only used by Veritas RWE. Here is the page for their replacement blades for Stanley pattern planes.


----------



## HokieKen

Dang Bandit, that's a load of work to put into a V-line block plane!


----------



## bandit571

Red just wasn't working out..









Set that knob aside….sole is as flat as I can get it..









Sharpening supplies for the edge..









New Knob dried…red paint, too…









And some Pine shavings..









Might just turn out decently…for a V-Line #707?


----------



## RWE

Thanks Hokie. May give it a try. I just made an improved (versus my older one) shooting board. I am thinking of setting up a #4 or #5 and dedicating it for use on the shooting board. The PM-V11 might be a good option. I am planning on doing a lot of dovetailing for small boxes. So I am going to "up my game" and start using the shooting board to get square and have the ends clean even though they come out good and square off the table saw sled. I may go full Paul Sellers and start using those 30 of so handsaws/back saws that I did not collect, they are users, you know. Hand sawn to a knife wall and then the shooting board. Should be fun.

All of that is wishful thinking right now. Wife chases me around with a roller pin demanding that I finish the kitchen cabinet renovation.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Checked, LN #62 is $300.00 U.S. before import tax(free trade my A#S)?
> Did see a used one on Flea-Bay for $500.00  and a Stanley #64 for $800.00 U.S.
> I will just wait for Kent to find one for me
> 
> - Andre


I'll see what I can find ;-)

Pretty much everything that I have is something that I tripped across at a moment when I felt like I could afford it. That does a lot to explain some of the mutts and my rather eclectic mix of planes. I am going for a user set of Canadian-made corrugated T17 &/or 18 Baileys, but since they aren't too common I'll probably be waiting a while longer. It makes buying tools so much more pleasant knowing that I have what I need and can wait for what I want.


----------



## rad457

Do like the L.N. #62 used one at one of their tool fairs, bought the 60 1/2 rabbit instead and the brush an very expensive hammer! But it was free shipping and at the time our dollar was higher? Some hazy memories of a trip to Lake Havasu looking for a winter shack Stops in Vegas, Laughlin and the casino across the Lake paid for the whole trip and a trip back to Vegas to see Cher! (Wife's idea)
The PMV-11 iron is a very big consideration, pretty sure there isn't one for a Stanley #62 ?


----------



## Mosquito

Where were you looking that they were $300 USD? Are you sure that wasn't CAD?
I mean, being out of stock doesn't help you any either, but still lol


----------



## rad457

With shipping but not tax.


----------



## corelz125

One youtube review of the low angle planes they said the Veritas performed the best out of all of them. They gave the vintage stanley a low rating. Anybody try the new Stanley sweeheart 62?


----------



## rad457

The Veritas is out of stock as well, anybody know if there is a PMV-11 iron for the #62, new or old, same blade?


----------



## HokieKen

Haven't tried the Stanley Corelz. Read a lot of stuff about a very high rate of bad planes slipping through QA. IIRC, the biggest issue was the sides not being square to the sole which kinda shoots it in the foot for shooting.

It is a good bit cheaper though. Woodriver also makes on that gets pretty good reviews. It's right around the same price as the LN and Veritas though.


----------



## HokieKen

Nope, no PM-V11 for the Stanley Andre. I think I read that the Woodriver irons will work with vintage Stanleys and LN made replacement blades for them at one time but they quit long ago. Not a lot of options for replacement blades on those planes.


----------



## corelz125

They go for about half the price. If it took a little tuning to get work ways could be worth the money. Since everyone here has no problem putting some work into getting a plane work ready. Guess would have to test drive one before bringing it home.


----------



## bandit571

Working on some Cedar…..


----------



## Ocelot

Clearly there are not enough Stanley 62s to go around. Maybe we need a timeshare.

In fact a nicely equipped timeshare shop would make a fine vacation spot.


----------



## HokieKen

How in the high, holy hell did I not know that Millers Falls made scrub planes?! For some reason, they have totally escaped my attention until I was looking up a block plane on oldthoolheaven.com and saw them listed there.









So 9-1/2 and 10-1/2 have to go on my list of unicorns with 7 (Stanley 2) and 64/65 (Stanley 12/12-1/2). Good grief. If anyone has or sees a MF scrub for sale, make it known please


----------



## drsurfrat

You guys all talk about 'tuning', but is it any more than sharpening, setting the frog and chipbreaker, and adjusting the cut? (I don't lap, BTW) Am I missing some magical (or embarrassingly obvious) tweak to really change the performance on a plane?


----------



## Notw

> So 9-1/2 and 10-1/2 have to go on my list of unicorns with 7 (Stanley 2) and 64/65 (Stanley 12/12-1/2). Good grief. If anyone has or sees a MF scrub for sale, make it known please
> 
> - HokieKen


This reads totally different if you forget MF stands for Miller Falls and not the naughty words. LOL


----------



## Mosquito

> You guys all talk about tuning , but is it any more than sharpening, setting the frog and chipbreaker, and adjusting the cut? (I don t lap, BTW) Am I missing some magical (or embarrassingly obvious) tweak to really change the performance on a plane?
> 
> - drsurfrat


Depends on what you're aiming for.

What you mentioned is basically adjusting every mechanical aspect of the plane that allows adjusting, so I don't know if I would say "just" lol I'm sure many people never fiddle with half of that when they get a new plane, so it's probably the combination of all those things that constitutes "tuning".

If I'm "tuning up" a plane, in addition to what you're talking about, making sure it's sharp, setting the frog up so the iron comes through the mouth just right, (I actually don't worry about the chip breaker too much on mine other than making sure it fits the iron flat) I also get the sole as flat as I can with out putting any more effort into it than PSA backed sand paper on a piece of granite counter top.


----------



## HokieKen

> You guys all talk about tuning , but is it any more than sharpening, setting the frog and chipbreaker, and adjusting the cut? (I don t lap, BTW) Am I missing some magical (or embarrassingly obvious) tweak to really change the performance on a plane?
> 
> - drsurfrat


That's about it for me Mike. I always check to make sure there's a really tight fit between the chipbreaker and the iron so there's no where for shavings to get stuck. And I lap my soles when I first get a plane but I don't think that's a necessity at all. Just makes me feel better ;-)


----------



## rad457

> You guys all talk about tuning , but is it any more than sharpening, setting the frog and chipbreaker, and adjusting the cut? (I don t lap, BTW) Am I missing some magical (or embarrassingly obvious) tweak to really change the performance on a plane?
> 
> - drsurfrat
> 
> Depends on what you re aiming for.
> 
> What you mentioned is basically adjusting every mechanical aspect of the plane that allows adjusting, so I don t know if I would say "just" lol I m sure many people never fiddle with half of that when they get a new plane, so it s probably the combination of all those things that constitutes "tuning".
> 
> If I m "tuning up" a plane, in addition to what you re talking about, making sure it s sharp, setting the frog up so the iron comes through the mouth just right, (I actually don t worry about the chip breaker too much on mine other than making sure it fits the iron flat) I also get the sole as flat as I can with out putting any more effort into it than PSA backed sand paper on a piece of granite counter top.
> 
> - Mosquito


Basically the same here, plus usually run the at least the right side cheek over some some 180/220 grit, make sure it's flat an won't rock on a shooting board.(Or bench top) Not required on any L.V. or L.N. planes so far 
Only on "USER" planes, did check the bottom of the Bedrock but left the cheeks alone, same as the more special ones like all the Millers Falls!


----------



## drsurfrat

thanks guys
I don't have a shooting board, but after the last failed attempt at miters, maybe I will set aside a plane for that.


----------



## HokieKen

Shooting board is on my short list of projects too. I have even drawn up the design and bought some BB plywood for it. If only time were as easily purchased as materials…


----------



## theoldfart

I have had very good luck with the chute track from Lee Valley. A good setup with my LN 51.


----------



## HokieKen

Bought a strip of UHMW to mill my own track to fit my Veritas LAJ too Kev  I like the LV track but I don't like Aluminum for the application and I don't like the price.


----------



## Mosquito

I bought a Veritas shooting board to go with my Vertias shooting plane. I'm a fan of the whole setup. Not sure if I'd opt for just buying the whole thing again, or just fence and track. Almost not sure about the fence, little fiddly in that you have to adjust the wood face when you change angles, but overall I like it


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, i looked at the fence and didn't like it. The UHMW strip makes everything work well and no wear on the metal. Made sense to me with a $500 plane!


----------



## controlfreak

I need a workbench to build a bench hook. I need a leg vise to hold the bench hook I need a bench hook to build a shooting board. This takes me back to Kenny's time crunch. I also need a restored miter box to cut them square but that is a whole other chunk of time I am out of.


----------



## sansoo22

Does anyone have spare parts for 110, 120, or 220 they don't need? I was recently gifted a handful of them and while they aren't the best users I intend to restore them and donate to Scraps KC along with a couple restored bench planes that have some minor imperfections in them. Scraps KC is like a Restore but for artists and craftsman. They take in supplies, materials, and tools and teach classes for kids as well as vocational programs for adults.

I'm not looking for handouts and will happily pay for whatever you can part with. The hardest thing to find is the knobs at a reasonable price. I figured I'd try my luck here before heading to retail outlets like nhplaneparts, ebay, etc.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't think I still do but I'll check tonight Sansoo. I did have a couple of 220s that I got in an auction lot but I'm pretty sure I either gave them to someone or donated them to the local Restore. My MF07 is the only block plane in my rotation that doesn't have an adjustable throat. Well, except for the 100-1/2 that should be arriving in the mail later this week 

Edit to add: If you don't get any donated, I can turn you some knobs if you aren't particular about them being authentic.


----------



## drsurfrat

Kenny, how do you make the internal threads?


----------



## RWE

On the shooting board subject. I decided to buy the Veritas track, but alas they were out of stock for several months. So I watched about 10 or more YouTube videos and pulled this design or I should say, synthesized this design from elements of multiple videos.

The main element is that you start with a 90 degree dado using your table saw and a dado stack to get a 3/4 inch wide dado at a perfect 90 degree alignment to your board, which you already squared before you begin.

You then glue in a strip of wood as wide as the dado. Then you make various fences to pressure fit onto the glued in block. I have a short miter fence and 90 degree fence, will make a donkey's ear for long miters as well.

I used aluminum bar stock from Home Depot and ordered the slick tape off of Amazon. I made two of these. I believe buying the track from Veritas would cost as much as I spent on the supplies, but it was not available.

Note that I put a small inside edge run of narrow aluminum bar stock where the plane will run, but that is below the plane blade height. Cant see it well in the pictures. You will not wear down the inside edge because the plane doesn't touch the wooden edge, just the fence that is installed.

Works well and I have tried a smoother and a jack in it with good results. Can adjust the track width.

You can make replacement fences. Mine is set up so that I can get a good pressure fit by cutting a groove in the fence using my router table and the correct router bit. You micro adjust the fence edge that contacts the plane bottom by using a mallet to whack it back and forth as needed. You could insert a screw into the fence to lock it down, but the pressure fit is good and strong.

Picture with the walnut "big" fence pressure fitted onto the glued in "small" fence which is also walnut, so hard to see in the picture.










short miter fence just sitting on the board, not inserted. Donkey ears to come.


----------



## G5Flyr

Great conversation re the shooting board subject. If no one minds I'd like to jump in and show off what I consider the hand planes of my dreams. These are my entries in the bench plane department:



















...and my block planes:



















I am happy to give descriptions or discuss any of them.


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny, how do you make the internal threads?
> 
> - drsurfrat


I've only done it once but I just measured the outside of the threads on the plane and drilled a hole slightly smaller then let the threads on the plane cut the internal threads into the wood. Then I planned to use epoxy to make it a permanent fit but just screwing it on held it so solidly that it turned out to be unnecessary.


----------



## Mosquito

G5, those are all some good looking planes. Did you restore all of those, or did you find the best examples of pretty much everything? lol


----------



## HokieKen

RWE - your shooting board is pretty much the design I landed on too. I am going to use some UHMW track but that's essentially what you have with the slick tape. I debated on an adjustable fence but decided to go with a solid, fixed fence and then make attachments for miters and such that attach to the fixed fence for other functions. KISS seemed like the prudent course to me on this one.


----------



## G5Flyr

> G5, those are all some good looking planes. Did you restore all of those, or did you find the best examples of pretty much everything? lol
> 
> - Mosquito


Thanks Mosquito-

For the most part they are in "as found" condition. I lapped and honed the cutters then "matched" the chip breakers to the cutters per Richard Maguire (The English Woodworker).

#7 and #5 are from Ed Lebetkin's tool store in Pittsboro, NC. I spiffed up the wood on the #7 but other than that both of them were ready to use as soon as I got them home. The 4-1/2 C was an eBay auction win. Ready to use as soon as I unpacked it. The #3 was from a tool sale at a local antique tool collector's club. Same story as the others.


----------



## HokieKen

Beautiful lineup G5. 9-1/2 and 60-1/2 blocks?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice stuff! What does the red on the jack's iron mean?


----------



## corelz125

Sansoo theres the group on facebook just plane fun the parts division. He has a lot of Stanley parts and for reasonable prices. Before servicenet ran out of parts I bought a bunch of those small threaded knobs for cheap but went through them fast. Servicenet was a great place for stanley parts I wish they still had plane parts.


----------



## HokieKen

> Nice stuff! What does the red on the jack's iron mean?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


That means it dreams of being a Millers Falls when it grows up )

I crack myself up.


----------



## Lazyman

For any of you just dying to have a Lie-Nielson plane (or other tools), This FB Marketplace listing just showed up locally (Just NE of DFW). He describes them as unused in box and 80% of new prices. Some appear to be no longer made by LN.

Large Shoulder Plane LN 0-73 $200.00
Low Angle Jack Rabbit Plane LN 610 $180.00
Small Router Plane LN 271 $76.00
Carcass Saw 14tpi LN CS $112.00
16 Inch Rip Tennon Saw LN TS $142.40
Jack Plane LN 5 1/2 $300.00
Bronze Beading Tool LN 68 $148.00
Jack Rabbet Plane LN 10 1/2 $320.00
Jointer Plane LN 8 $380.00
Large Tongue and Groove Plane LN 48L $180.00
Fore Plane LN 6 $300.00
Scrub Plane LN 40 1/2 $140.00
Medium Shoulder Plane LN 042 $156.00
Small Tongue and Groove Place LN 49 $180.00
1/8" Bevel Edge Chisel $44.00
3/8" Bevel Edge Chisel $44.00
1/2" Bevel Edge Chisel $44.00
3/16" Bevel Edge Chisel $44.00
7/8" Bevel Edge Chisel $44.00
3/8" Mortise Chisel $52.00
1/4" Mortise Chisel $52.00


----------



## G5Flyr

> Beautiful lineup G5. 9-1/2 and 60-1/2 blocks?
> 
> - HokieKen


That's right Ken. 9-1/2 and 60-1/2. No restoration on either of them. Both planes were ready to go as soon as I got them home.


----------



## G5Flyr

> Nice stuff! What does the red on the jack's iron mean?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Thanks Smitty. The red on the top of the #5's iron is a piece of red electrical tape that either says "straight" or "radius". I have two irons with matched chip breakers for that plane. One is for jointing and smoothing. The other iron is for heavy stock removal. I have the irons labeled so that I don't get them mixed up. If you think there must be a story behind that reasoning you are correct.


----------



## HokieKen

Sorry Sansoo, I got nothing from those block planes. Offer stands for the knobs though.


----------



## sansoo22

> Sorry Sansoo, I got nothing from those block planes. Offer stands for the knobs though.
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks for checking Ken. Call it foolish or stubborn pride but I would like to make these original if at all possible. Will probably spend as much time on something I'm giving away as I do my own personal planes. If I strike out completely I will PM you. I really appreciate the offer.


----------



## drsurfrat

sansoo, I have a small collection of 9 1/2 style parts, any w these? (I want to keep at least one knob)


----------



## HokieKen

Alright, new game. Let's play "stump the surfrat"!

I'll kick it off.

I need a depth guide and locking collar for my 71 router plane.


----------



## drsurfrat

Crap, short game, I don't have a router of any kind.


----------



## HokieKen

Woo Hoo! I win! )

Speaking of games, I'm gonna repost this in case anyone missed it that might be interested 



> Looks like some interest for the HPOYD Secret Santa 2021  We have 7 people signed up so far.
> 
> I propose the following:
> 
> "Registration" will be open through March. Register by shooting me an e-mail at [email protected] that contains your LJ username, your real name, and your mailing address. Also let me know if you ARE NOT willing to ship to Canada. I'll send out name assignments first week of April.
> Secret Santa will only be open to members in North America (US and Canada). Shipping and customs can get very convoluted and expensive going overseas unfortunately.
> Rules as follows:
> Spending cap of $40 USD (Canadians use the current exchange rate when you purchase your plane). Any shipping costs to get the plane and to send the plane to your recipient are your responsibility and are outside of the spending cap. $40 has to cover the full package though. Any replacement parts etc. must be included. In other words do not spend more than $40 excluding shipping. If you have replacement parts on-hand, you must include them in your spending at a reasonable market price.
> If you already possess a plane you would like to send instead of buying another, that is perfectly fine. If that's the case though, you should be able to remember how much you paid for it and know it was less than $40. If you don't know what you paid for it, you should be confident that if you were to shop for the same plane on Ebay etc. you would be able to purchase another for $40.
> You can send any plane (or planes) you wish but it must be a plane or directly plane-related. A jointer fence or shooting board or set of cutters for a combination plane are types of things I would consider plane-related. As far as defining what is a plane, I'll leave it up to each person to decide. Cabinet scrapers? Spokeshaves? I think those qualify. But you can decide for yourself.
> The plane you send doesn't have to be complete but does have to be usable in the condition you send it in. You can send a fillester plane that's missing depth stops and the fence because it can be used as a shoulder plane. You can't send a fillester plane without a blade though.
> You don't have to consider your time or consumables in your spending (but certainly can if you wish). So if you buy a crusty but complete vintage plane for $40 then spend 6 hours, a few sheets of sandpaper and a rattle can of enamel rehabbing it, you've still met the $40 spending cap. If you spend $40 on a vintage plane and then pay Don W or Sansoo to rehab it for you though, you're a damn cheater ;-)
> Your plane should be shipped to your recipient sometime after Thanksgiving but in time to arrive before Christmas. This will make sure that everyone receives their gift around the same time.
> When you receive a plane in the mail, post some pictures here for the rest of us to see and tell us who sent it to you.
> If you sign up, don't forget you signed up ;-) If for some reason you wish to drop out, please inform me ASAP because it will require re-shuffling some names around. So just don't drop out.
> So that's what I'm thinking. It's definitely a democracy so if you have any better suggestions/ammendments/revisions I'm all ears!


----------



## G5Flyr

I don't mean to gloat here but Ken mentioned the Stanley 71 router. Here is my entry:










I won this at the Potomac Antique Tools and Industries Association (PATINA) auction in 2018. The cutters were trashed by someone who didn't know how to sharpen them. The spear point was particularly bad. I did my best to restore their original dignity.

Somewhere along the way I got the idea to replace the Stanley cutters with Veritas cutters. Kevin helped me out in this regard when I posted the question. The Veritas cutters will work in the Stanley routers but it's not a great solution.

But then…

I came across a guy on eBay who makes a longer version of the threaded post so that the Veritas cutters will work perfectly. All I can remember about him is that he is from St. Catherine, Ontario, Canada. I looked in my purchase history but couldn't find the transaction. I made the purchase in 2018 and eBay will only search back to 2019.

Now for the punch line: When you total the original purchase price of the router and add in the cost of the "upgrades" I'm at the same price of a new LN or about $10 short of a Veritas router.

I can see you all rolling your eyes. I can even hear the snickering. Please be gentle with your comments.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ But now you have a one-of-a-kind (kinda) Stanley router that you gave new life to. The router appreciates what you did, and that's certainly worth something. The knobs on the tool look great. Guess the dude what butchered the cutters figured, after doing so, the thing didn't work worth a crap and put it back in the box for good.


----------



## drsurfrat

Oh, sh**
I do have one.









I had packed it away for the move and forgot about it until "the enabler" reminded me.
I guess you still win 'cause i don't have extra parts.

My turn: which do you NOT have:
- curved sailmakers drawknife
- 2 (or more) lathes
- special screwdriver that you only use for 1 thing
- every single size bench plane (except a No1, of course)
- 10 (or more) squares
I win if you can't claim any restraint on tool purchasing.

...

And yes, Gulfstream, please gloat. The only thing better is something you made with it.


----------



## HokieKen

I do not have a sailmaker's drawknife. I have 2 lathes but one is for metal. I don't have #2 or #8 sized bench planes. You got me on the squares


----------



## drsurfrat

Ah well, I loose again. I really wish I had remembered that router when I was hanging the new door…


----------



## G5Flyr

> ^ But now you have a one-of-a-kind (kinda) Stanley router that you gave new life to. The router appreciates what you did, and that s certainly worth something. The knobs on the tool look great. Guess the dude what butchered the cutters figured, after doing so, the thing didn t work worth a crap and put it back in the box for good.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Thanks Smitty. With the exception of the cutters the router was pristine. Even the box was a B+.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Surfrat, I'm digging the look of that No. 71 1/2.

What's a sailmaker's drawknife look like?


----------



## G5Flyr

> Alright, new game. Let's play "stump the surfrat"!
> 
> I'll kick it off.
> 
> I need a depth guide and locking collar for my 71 router plane.
> 
> - HokieKen


After reading the above I couldn't help myself so I trolled the bowels of eBay. A seller that goes by mjdtoolparts has a couple locking collars. I think mjd is over priced but his stock appears to be good quality and he's got tons of stuff. There's a depth adjuster lumped in with a bunch of other 71/71-1/2 parts being sold by 10npit. The lot is kinda trashy (IMO).

Here are the links if you are interested:

Locking collars:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Orig-Cutter-Locking-Collar-for-Stanley-71-or-71-1-2-Router-Plane-mjdtoolparts/124522826022?hash=item1cfe238926:g:B8IAAOSw1tRf~CwW

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Later-Type-Locking-Collar-for-Stanley-71-or-71-1-2-Router-Plane-mjdtoolparts/114623030734?hash=item1ab010a5ce:g:BdEAAOSwxXNf-uEW

Lot of router parts:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/STANLEY-71-Router-Plane-with-83-Attachment-PARTS-PROJECT-1625/293941091553?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D80950fec387e45e8bcfc073431c5ceb5%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D10%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D124522826002%26itm%3D293941091553%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26brand%3DStanley&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Ab5822fc9-55bd-11eb-938d-820d1e8ab142%7Cparentrq%3Afc9c849d1760a69f892b8f36ffc05893%7Ciid%3A1


----------



## sansoo22

G5 - mjdtoolparts is Martin and Kathleen Donnelly. They have been collecting and selling for a long time. Well before I got into planes and hand tools. Needless to say but I have bought quite a few parts from them. Their prices are on the high side but they are quality parts.


----------



## Ocelot

Marten J. Donaldson also has in the past had a couple of live big auctions somewhere back east. They send a list out and you can bid online too, as I recall. I'm a bit fuzzy onit.

I bought an 80M from him - missing only the blade - in perfect condition for a reasonable price off eBay.

Here it is
https://mjdtools.com/


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks for looking out G5  I usually only resort to Ebay prices if it's something I *have* to have. I have a locking collar with a too-big-bolt because I had to drill out the stripped threads and it has a braze repair too. The depth guide I could make but in all of the times I've used the plane, I never felt like it was any kind of necessity.


----------



## drsurfrat

> Surfrat, I m digging the look of that No. 71 1/2.
> 
> What s a sailmaker s drawknife look like?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


If I remember right, its a massive curved blade. Llike this maybe?








searching for it, there was one called a coach makers drawknife, so maybe my memory is as bad as my miters.


----------



## HokieKen

Oh S#*!. I lied. I do have one of those :-/ I call it a chairmaker's scorp though.


----------



## DanKrager

HK, I would have called it that too! I guess the difference is the outriggers…. and this one doesn't have any outriggers…










DanK

Thought I had a better picture of the other chair makers scorps in the bottom drawer here:


----------



## rad457

> Surfrat, I m digging the look of that No. 71 1/2.
> 
> What s a sailmaker s drawknife look like?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop
> 
> If I remember right, its a massive curved blade. Llike this maybe?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> searching for it, there was one called a coach makers drawknife, so maybe my memory is as bad as my miters.
> 
> - drsurfrat


Could of used that back on the farm, peeling bark on fence post's an rails, still have the draw knife. Thought about getting smaller version to supplement the spoke shaves for spoons an Shoe horns? Maybe get some ambition an make one?
On a different note an kinda back on subject matter, a used Veritas L.A.J. is on Flea-bay, made him an offer just shy of what a new one costs here that was declined Needs a little love an attention and no mention of which iron, not sure what they sell for down there but shipping should be considerable less. One of them new Stanley #62 looking better all the time need to decide if the PMV-11 iron an Veritas quality worth the extra $80 to $100 ?


----------



## HokieKen

Here's one I don't think I've seen before…


----------



## Mosquito

it's the chopper version of a block plane lol


----------



## bandit571

New dealer, old Mall…I am in TROUBLE…..
One for Kenny…









$4 Drill? Except..the name stamped into that crank handle…Millers Falls No. 77..fancy gear box..









Hmm…Now, I did turn down a Winchester No. 4 ($65..) and a Winchester No, 6c ($80 !) put could not set this other plane back down..









had a groovy sole, too..









iron has a readable etch…and so does the front end…









Might be worth the $40 I paid? 3 shelves of planes….along with a bunch of other hand tools….

I am in deep Doo-Doo…..Place is 4 blocks from my house….


----------



## Mosquito

"Ooh, new not shiny's!"

I expect I'm in trouble when I start going to antique places again too, haven't gone to one in over a year now lol


----------



## MrMark1946

> Ode to the #8
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An 8is great. However a note of caution to those considering an 8 as a first purchase: l'm not a big guy and I'm 75 years old. I simply can't handle my 8 anymore; it just gets away from me on long strokes. Serves me right for being old and small! If you have either of my "attributes " you may want to consider a#7 or (better yet) a fore plane.
> 
> Some people aren t 8 fans. I understand that. Or they prefer a 7. Don t understand that. The difference between them isn t that great and if I m gonna have mass, I want the most mass available. But hey - you like a 7 more? Wonderful. Enjoy your 7.
> 
> I ve owned two 8 s. Sold the first one, and restored another one that was used for the first time today after replacement blade and chip breaker arrived. You get that thing going down a 34 inch table-leg-in-the-rough and zoom! It doesn t stop. Knots, wavy grain - nothin. Mows it all down. Love it.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Here s one I don t think I ve seen before…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


That looks to be a quicker and easier solution than this one in my collection.










A handpainted and drilled chunk of dowel on a square-tapered post.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice 77 Bandit. I'd have left my four bucks there too!

Yours is a lot prettier Kent ;-)


----------



## KentInOttawa

You'll notice that I've kept it original (?).


----------



## Karda

kent that is a plumbers block plane


----------



## drsurfrat

priceless


----------



## corelz125

MJD seems to be cannibalizing most planes they get a hold of. G5 that 71 with the box is worth the money. Kenny if Don W is in the hand plane secret santa what are you supposed to get a guy who has almost every plane already?


----------



## HokieKen

I guess you have to make him one Corelz ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

^ give him a DC 10!


----------



## HokieKen

Remember Kev, rules say it has to cost less than $40 and be functional when you send it ;-p


----------



## corelz125

Think he'll like one made from a chunk of 2" steel with a iron jammed in It?


----------



## corelz125

Mr Mark i love #8's


----------



## drsurfrat

- Functional
- Hand
- Plane


----------



## HokieKen

So for the past couple of months, some of you may have noticed I've been a little obsessed with getting my hands on a 100-1/2. I've also been a little tight in the wallet area about actually purchasing one. Well Jeff got tired of reading me whine about loosing them on Ebay so he finally just sent me one to shut me the hell up! He even sent it's younger 1/2 brother (see what I did there?) #101 with it )









Little suckers are as cute as they can be. I'm looking forward to starting a new carving project 'cause that's where I think the the 100-1/2 is gonna be useful 

Jeff sent a note and basically told me to try them out and if I decided I didn't want them, send them back. And if I decided I do want them, to pay by way of a donation to a local charity. Mighty fine folks those Lumberjocks are. Mighty fine indeed 

Well, most of em…

;-P


----------



## drsurfrat

> Think he ll like one made from a chunk of 2" steel with a iron jammed in It?
> 
> - corelz125


Don would take that, reshape it, shine it up, and take a picture that would win a Pulitzer prize.


----------



## Mosquito

> Think he ll like one made from a chunk of 2" steel with a iron jammed in It?
> 
> - corelz125


Better yet, a chunk of irons with a wooden cutter jammed in it lol

That's cool Kenny, and good on Jeff


----------



## bandit571

There was this spool…..


----------



## HokieKen

> Think he ll like one made from a chunk of 2" steel with a iron jammed in It?
> 
> - corelz125
> 
> Don would take that, reshape it, shine it up, and take a picture that would win a Pulitzer prize.
> 
> - drsurfrat


I got a kick out of that ^ I thought you were gonna say:



> Don would take that, reshape it, shine it up, and *post it for sale on his site.*


Just kidding Don!


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, the Spool lives!


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> That s cool Kenny, and good on Jeff
> 
> - Mosquito


You and that 209 (or was it a 709?) plane of yours could take some inspiration from Jeff… just sayin'. ;-P


----------



## corelz125

I really wanna try a MF 24 anyone have a spare one just kicking around?


----------



## Mosquito

You mean the Buck Rogers 709? Haven't touched that in years lol. Might have to get it off the shelf in the house and give it another go…

Speaking of which, this T11 #3 made its way out back to the shop today. I think it's the first time it's been in this shop, pretty sure it's been in the kitchenette shop since we moved… Gave it a quick sharpen, and it still sings.










That was my main go-to smoother for a long time


----------



## G5Flyr

> Bandit, the Spool lives!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


Kona appears to be daring anyone to try and take the spool…


----------



## G5Flyr

^ By the way Kevin, that is a beautiful handle on that miter box saw.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

With all the router talk as of late, feel compelled to share.










That router is a former "Calendar Girl" too.










She lives Top and Center in the Not Wall Hung.


----------



## theoldfart

It's a Rocky Mountain Saw Works aka LJ Bob Summerfield restoration. Bob has restored a number of saws for me and others here on Lumber Jocks. Checkout his web site.


----------



## Mosquito

Smitty, you've got a lot of calendar famous planes, and that infamous lamp base too lol


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, don't forget Smitty's shop. Awesome place for pics.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That lamp photo bombs a lot..

I was making the Not Wall Hung in that picture!


----------



## bandit571

Mine tends to hide out in a box








Every now and then…it does escape from the box….even does a little work..


----------



## G5Flyr

Nice photos Smitty! I love the calendar pic. IMO the pic of the cabinet is calendar worthy as well.

What is the plane that is sitting between the holdfast and the block plane in the "calendar" photo? Can we get a close up?


----------



## HokieKen

Here's my 71 since everybody else is showing them off.









Custom paint, knobs and screws. It's a "make it my own" restoration job.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Nice photos Smitty! I love the calendar pic. IMO the pic of the cabinet is calendar worthy as well.
> 
> What is the plane that is sitting between the holdfast and the block plane in the "calendar" photo? Can we get a close up?
> 
> - G5Flyr


Thx, G5! That cabinet was the subject of a very lengthy blog series...

I'll revisit that plane later today, gotta get out to the shop.


----------



## G5Flyr

^ Impressive Kenny! LOVE those handles. What kind of wood? ..and the screws? Did you make them too?


----------



## HokieKen

The knobs are Purpleheart. The screws are just standard round head brass screws. I had to tap the treads out to 1/4-20 in the plane.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I like router planes. Here are mine:


----------



## BlasterStumps

I think this little guy that I modified is a 12-101. I can slide the blade either left or right: 









and somewhere along the way I found a 101. The mouth is a bit tight in it. :


----------



## bandit571

Iron is 1/8" thick….had more bends than the old river road….got it straightened out and flat…









Even got the logo to show up better…









Chipbreaker? 








Work in Progress? 









And….tying to remember who made frog seats like this….









Hmmm. Lateral is a twisted item..









Knurling is straight..









Pivot point look normal?









Union? Ohio Tool? Don't think it is a Sargent…..
Sole has a raised spot under the tote…









And, I'll need to clean up the toe a bit. Tote has a strange looking bolt..









Hmm..a No. 4c with a toe bolt…..Crack is solidly fixed….knob has this for it's "bolt" 









Lever cap has a different way to add the spring…









This might take a while…to get it to Sansoo's level ?


----------



## Mosquito

Coming along Bandit. KK4 would have been Ohio Tools. You'll also likely notice the depth adjuster is backwards (that is reverse threaded from Stanley). When I set up my Stanley #3 last night, I kept mixing that up, since I'm used to my Keen Kutters lol


----------



## bandit571

Thank you, Sir!


----------



## Mosquito

No problem  It always amazes me how messed up I've seen plane irons get… like, what happens to bend an iron so much? lol


----------



## sansoo22

> No problem  It always amazes me how messed up I ve seen plane irons get… like, what happens to bend an iron so much? lol
> 
> - Mosquito


That KK8 I restored cost me a good hour or so getting the chip breaker flat and registered with the iron correctly. It somehow simultaneously had a twist and a bow in it. I haven't a clue what it was subjected to over its lifetime but it was in pretty sad shape. I find the 3lb mini sledge to be a quick and effective attitude adjuster in those situation.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

This is my example of the Stanley No. 278










The fence (and likely the rod) are not original, and that's quite common I've read, but do the job just fine. It has a depth adjuster like later models of the No. 78, and has the fence plus depth stop.










It's more like a shoulder plane with fence.










It even does that bullnose / chisel plane thing Stanley often touted as a capability.










There you go. More than you ever wanted to know about the No. 278! Mine lives in the NWH.


----------



## theoldfart

I like the bullnose feature.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's actually an underrated / under appreciated plane. Pretty darned versatile.


----------



## theoldfart

You know that a dozen people are now going to start searching for it and the market will go nuts? Kinda like the Schwarz effect.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hah!


----------



## sansoo22

> You know that a dozen people are now going to start searching for it and the market will go nuts? Kinda like the Schwarz effect.
> 
> - theoldfart


I hope not. These things are already pretty pricey to begin with. I had a chance to snag one for super cheap a few years ago when I first got into planes. I had no idea what it was and thought to myself I'd never need such a weird looking plane. And while I still don't need one for the work I do I need one for my addiction.


----------



## HokieKen

Dammit! Is that a bevel up rabbet plane?! Crap. And I had gone all day without looking at ebay…


----------



## G5Flyr

Thanks for showing the 278 Smitty. That is a really cool plane. BTW - the more I see your NWH the more I am impressed. Well done.


----------



## G5Flyr

> Dammit! Is that a bevel up rabbet plane?! Crap. And I had gone all day without looking at ebay…
> 
> - HokieKen


See you over there Kenny!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thanks, G5. I appreciate that.

The NWH isn't very flashy, but there's a ton of stuff inside (check) that's easy to access (check), and it was a fun build (check).


----------



## G5Flyr

OK - I just checked eBay. Stanley 278's (complete) are running from $179.99-$210.76. Parts are prevalent but expensive IMO.

Kenny - have you scarfed anything up yet? LOL


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I didn't pay bandit money, but my example was a LOT less than that…


----------



## bandit571

Have to hide this little fellow from Smitty….









A little bevel gauge…the blued blade has a clipped corner box with Stanley in it…...

and…

a….
SW below the box…..Walnut, brass and steel…including the locking lever being steel….

Compare to a normal sized gauge..


----------



## rad457

Found mine, LOL! looked at the box for the Veritas and had to think were is the #71?
Newer model, basically brand new.


----------



## G5Flyr

WOW! That is beautiful. Even the box and the pamphlet are an A+

Love the handles.


----------



## rad457

> WOW! That is beautiful. Even the box and the pamphlet are an A+
> 
> Love the handles.
> 
> - G5Flyr


Nope, box is in rough shape used it a few time but bought the Veritas with all the blades an inlay cutter with intentions of actually doing inlays, has yet to happen


----------



## bandit571

Ok…different plane..









Port side view..









And the starboard view…









Not quite like new…will just have to do…









Near as I can tell…this is 1/8" thick….and no rust to be seen…


----------



## RWE

Since Bandit opened the door, I want to show my bevel gauges. Particularly like the brass one.










The family at rest together. None are marked. Unknown origins. Bunch of orphans.










Also, what is the proper name for a 45 degree square? It ain't square.

If you go to enough flea markets and antique malls these gauges will follow you home.

My 71 1/2 purchased from the dealer above Roy Underhill's space in Pittsborro NC. I believe the dealer was mentioned, Ed Entrekin SP? or something like that. Has a lot of tools to sell.


----------



## theoldfart

RWE, mitre square. Looks like a Winterbottom patent square made by Stanley


----------



## bandit571

Family Portrait? Ok..









Had 2 of the black plastic junk….got rid of those….Prefer wood handled things in the shop….


----------



## RWE

Thanks Kevin. I will Google Winterbottom and do another inspection of the Mitre Square to see if I can find any logos or marks.

Has anyone seen or acquired a brass bevel gauge. Not sure how prevalent they were. Got that at an estate sale 5 or 6 years ago.

You could carry it to your job site and if the boss got out of line, you could knock him out. It is solid and heavy.


----------



## RWE

Funny thing, I never researched the mitre square. Seems that it is pretty old. The flat bottom means it is a later Type 1 Stanley No. 16 Improved Mitre with a Winterbottom patent.

Wood is Walnut. Made from 1872 to 1898. I grab it ever so often. I did check it with a Wixey angle gauge it is dead on 45 degrees.

Oldtooluser type study


I could clean it up, but I like some of the old tool patina most of the time.










Thanks again Kevin. Signing off on non-handplane stuff.


----------



## Karda

I have one of the black plastic pieces of junk one pof the first tools i bought 30 yrs ago. As I junk store I am keeping an eye out for one. I like wood rather than plastic


----------



## corelz125

I came across this 278 a couple of months ago for a good price. Wasn't looking for one but couldn't pass it up. Not sure if the fence is original.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's not, but welcome to the club (mine's not either)!

No depth stop?


----------



## corelz125

Missing the depth stop and the screw but I think a guy who hangs around here might be able to make them. Guess it's a fence from a 78,


----------



## HokieKen

Would the depth stop and screw from a 78 work? If so, I can copy mine (which also came courtesy of Jeff BTW!) for you Corelz. If not, just get me a pic and some dimensions  I owe you anyway, I'd be glad to pay down my tab a bit ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'll check it out and report back.


----------



## rad457

The #62 I was watching went for $370.00, and to think I passed on one for $168.00 last October that looked nicer 
The Veritas LAJ with shipping is now more than a New one ?
Only bevel gauges in my shop are them Veritas Lever locks, small and large


----------



## corelz125

Kenny the depth stop and thumb screw from the 78 I have don't work with the 278


----------



## HokieKen

Maybe Smitty can show us some good pics and take some measurements?


----------



## Lazyman

My favorite bevel gauge isn't as pretty as those old rosewood and brass ones but I love the way it locks using the nob on the end. On my one that locks with a nut that pinches the blade, I invariably change the angle as I lock it down 
.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, I've gotten rid of a few bevel gauges because they slipped. Which to me makes them useless. I have a couple but my main user by far is a Shinwa I got off amazon. It ain't pretty but has the bottom lock and a flat blade with straight edges and stays where I set it.


----------



## bandit571

Test drive….









had trouble setting the depth of cut…bolt for the chipbreaker was loose…









Compared it to a Stanley No. 4, Type 10…









Once ya get going..it is very hard to stop..









Between the 2 planes..there is about $70….with the KK4c being $40 of it….
Might come in handy?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nathan, I have an 18 somewhat like yours. I like it as well. I also have a gauge made at the Henry Disston plant. It has the arched Henry Disston and Sons logo on it. It is stamped into the rosewood. I tried to take a picture of the logo but it didn't show so well. I think Mr. Disston's brother in law may have been the maker actually. Mr. David Bickley










here are some of the gauges from my workshop:








One is a Millers Falls No 98, One is a Stanley No 25 TB, The metal one is a Stanley 18, and then the Disston gauge.


----------



## G5Flyr

Great conversation about bevel gauges and squares. Here are my favorites:









Here are some close-ups:


















I bought the No. 18 on the recommendation of Chris Schwarz. His reasons are all of the reasons stated above. However, I haven't had any issues with my No. 25.

I made these two under the watchful eye of Bill Anderson at Josh Farnsworth's WW school:


----------



## G5Flyr

In the small router dept. I've got these two:










If you're looking for a small router I recommend the LN (left). I can't get the Veritas' (right) cutter to stay put. No matter how hard I crank down on the locking knob the cutter rotates during use.


----------



## corelz125

G5 where have you been all these past months you seem to have a problem like the rest of us in here.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…Brass ( with countersunk blued screws) Walnut, and steel










Blued screws?








And…a special Logo…









WINCHESTER
TRADE MARK
MADE IN U.S.A.
9706

6" square.


----------



## drsurfrat

Since we are sharing, this is a combo square/miter gauge that got from my grandfather who died in 1980. All the etching has faded, but I remember seeing "Cooper" somewhere. I like the knurled knob to tighten it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's awesome, Surfrat!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

At first glance, the differences are quite obvious.










No. 278 part is on the left.










Lines on paper are spaced 5/16" from each other. Another big difference on the backsides.


----------



## drsurfrat

Is the thread the same? I have had enough Stanley's that I kept EVERY oddball screw I run across. I also made my No78-equivalent Craftsman depth stop out of brass. I put the ridge in it - it was a lot of filing; I don't have a mill. Corelz123, you might do that since it's going to be user.










O yea, Smitty, do you recognize the square? never seen one before or after Grandpa's.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I have seen one of those -or one that was incredibly similar- before. It was specific to trade, as I recall. Will have to do a bit of search-foo to reconnect.

Neither thread nor girth is the same re: the screws.


----------



## corelz125

This bevel gauge came in a lot I bought a couple of weeks ago. Might hang onto it. It's a big one 14". So far I haven't seen any makers mark on it.


----------



## corelz125

Mike I'll see what Kenny can come up with for the screw and depth stop. Just have to get him the measurements


----------



## bandit571

Was a bit busy….seems I won a floral pattern Stanley No. 45….no cutters, nor depth stops….whichis ok….intend to set it up as a dedicated Dado plane….and leave my Type 20 for all the rest of the jobs…

Total? just over $52….be here in about a week….

Now..IF I can figure out a screen grab…I could post a picture….or you all can wait til it gets here…

Lost one auction when it went over $99….for about the same plane….if someone wants it that bad….they can have it…I just went after the other plane….beat 7 other bidders.

Now I get to sit by the mail box for a week…..


----------



## HokieKen

I can pretty well copy Smitty's stop except for the thread size and the distance between the screw hole and the v-groove. Can you measure that distance and the inside diameter of the threaded hole Corelz?


----------



## bandit571

Smaller screw for the smaller depth stop…appears to be the same as used on a Stanley 45…...


----------



## Karda

i have a dilemma on can I have it group there is a squirl tail up for auction, do i want it since I already have 3 block plains


----------



## corelz125

I wonder if a screw from a #80 would also fit in there. Then I wonder if it's one of those wonderful off size threads that Stanley loved to use. Karda all the squirrel tails you have are Stanley?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I can go try a few. What's one that most have on hand to copy from?


----------



## corelz125

There's a Keen Kutter #2 in the can i have it group. Its up to $290 right now. Theres also a #62 at $130 but has a chip by the mouth. I have 2 different type 80's I'll try them tomorrow see if any work.


----------



## G5Flyr

> G5 where have you been all these past months you seem to have a problem like the rest of us in here.
> 
> - corelz125


Right. Birds of a feather…


----------



## drsurfrat

I'm gonna bet the No80 screws are too big, but Have a bizarre No 83 with a much smaller diameter thumbscrew. Can anyone tell us the diameter and pitch?

I have also pondered taking a correct thread count bolt/screw, chucking it up, and reducing the diameter with triangle file. e.g., take a 12-28 and make the 10-28 for the Stanley oddballs.


----------



## drsurfrat

I checked my No83, there are three screws that are 28 pitch at .0177" outside diameter, that is a very small 10-28, I guess, completly non-standard of course. Of Coarse? No it's Fine.


----------



## corelz125

Mike it's easier to retap the the hole to 12-28 than file down that screw.


----------



## drsurfrat

I hope you don't have to mess with the casting, but find a correct screw instead.
The ones Have don't have a shoulder anyway. Did you figure out what the size and pitch are?


----------



## HokieKen

I don't have all of the taps for the odd Stanley threads but I can make external threads for them if anyone needs them. I have a 10-28 tap and have been trying to get my hands on a 12-20 which is the size of the threads for the knobs and totes on most planes, among other things.

There used to be an ebay seller that had the taps but they haven't had stock for quite a long while now. If anyone has an extra or runs actoss one somewhere, I'll take it! Single pointing small internal threads is a major PITA…


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah Mike, that's a 10-28 thread. Pretty sure that's what size the 78 screw is so the 278 is smaller. I would guess an 8-32. Anyone have a 278 and a 8-32 screw they can check with?


----------



## DanKrager

Hokie, I'm surprised you haven't challenged yourself to make a set of taps! A bit of external threading, a bit of milling, heat treatment and DONE! See? It's simple! LOL.

OK, perhaps not THAT simple, but rather doable I would say…

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I have considered it Dan. If I can't find one before I actually need one, I imagine I'll go that way ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

> I hope you don t have to mess with the casting, but find a correct screw instead.
> ...
> 
> - drsurfrat


Yeah, if the plane is rare at all, don't tap the threads out. If it's a common #5 or something though, I've been known to make a #12-20 thread a 1/4-20.


----------



## Ocelot

I have seen sellers of taps, I mean it's a regular biz, not specific to planes, which have the odd stanley sizes, but had minimum sale and shipping. Can't remember who it was. If we could order 10 of em and spread the joy.

Is this the kind of thing?

https://www.victornet.com/detail/TAST-10-28.html

They show 12/20 but are out of stock.

https://www.victornet.com/detail/TAST-12-20.html


----------



## corelz125

Kenny victornet is where I bought my 12-20 tap and die from. It's was like a $20 shipping limit. I just threw in a few other taps a could use. I retapped a #5 for the toe screw on the tote. I have some 1/4 20 stove bolts that are very close to looking original. I wouldn't retap the 278.


----------



## HokieKen

Victornet is one of the sources I have been checking. They've been put of stock for a long time. I'm guessing they might not be restocking.


----------



## Ocelot

They say they will have 12/20 in a few days.

This one.

https://www.victornet.com/detail/TAST-12-20U.html


----------



## HokieKen

Awesome! Thanks Paul  I bookmarked and will keep an eye on it for stock to come in. It's a little spendy but I'll take my medicine.


----------



## corelz125

The other one that has it some times is st James Bay tools. He was more expensive that victornet


----------



## bandit571

Ok…what are the thumbscrew size of the ones used on #45 planes? I MIGHT have a spare…....


----------



## HokieKen

They're all 12-20 on mine Bandit


----------



## Phil32

What can you tell me about this handplane? It is 1-5/8" square x 5" long, entirely wood except for the blade, which is 1-3/16" wide x 3-1/2" long. There are no markings of any kind, including the blade. It looked like it had been used for smoothing drywall joints. Would it be suitable for smoothing rough sawn planks for a table top?


----------



## Mosquito

Anyone here with a #444 looking for a right angle fence? I'm going to be meeting up with someone locally to (probably) buy a plane or two (maybe more), and he mentioned he's got a fence for a #444, but not the rest of the plane (at least not that he's found). No idea what condition it's in, as I haven't seen a picture, but thought I'd post here. I could pick it up and ship it along if anyone was in need (and had a price based on general condition in mind).

I'm planning on bringing my #444 spur block, and letting him look at it to see if he might have that in any of what he has too, and would buy that, I know there's two of us that are missing the opposite sizes, so one of us would be able to use it 

Clearing out Father-In-Law's tools from the sounds of it


----------



## corelz125

I might be interested in that fence Mos.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

my bevel fence actually is cracked (and poorly brazed // rebroken), so if it's a bevel fence, let me know.


----------



## corelz125

No luck with the #80 screw or the screw off a #83.


----------



## Mosquito

> I might be interested in that fence Mos.
> 
> - corelz125





> my bevel fence actually is cracked (and poorly brazed // rebroken), so if it s a bevel fence, let me know.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Shoot me a PM with notes about general condition and pricing ideas. He's meeting me half way between where we both live, so I don't really want to ask him to do it again for just the fence (I don't think he wants me coming out to his house, which I respect).

Otherwise I can let him know I know some interested parties if he puts it up on facebook, and get you the listing link. He was willing to ship the other stuff reasonably


----------



## corelz125

> In the online marketing space, everybody loves the quick win. Call to Action … [plrow pagelayer-id="Xl02pOpiXGl8D12d" stretch="full" colgap="0″ widthcontent="full" rowheight="default" … [plicon pagelayer-id="RvqIsN04JjsHVkg9″ icon="fas fa-play" … [plcol pagelayer-id="G7sdT5dbif2nzY72″ widget_space="2″
> reseller hosting in lahore | wordpress hosting in pakistan | web hosting in pakistan | unlimited hosting in pakistan | unlimited hosting in lahore | unlimited hosting | business hosting in pakistan | business hosting in lahore | business hosting | Web hosting in lahore | VPS hosting in Pakistan | shared hosting in pakistan | cheap web hosting in pakistan
> 
> - jimmyjohn00009


They have any good deals on old planes in Pakistan?


----------



## corelz125

Phil that's a European style plane . like a Ulmia


----------



## controlfreak

I have clicked on all of those links and couldn't find a plane one. I don't get it.


----------



## HokieKen

> What can you tell me about this handplane? It is 1-5/8" square x 5" long, entirely wood except for the blade, which is 1-3/16" wide x 3-1/2" long. There are no markings of any kind, including the blade. It looked like it had been used for smoothing drywall joints. Would it be suitable for smoothing rough sawn planks for a table top?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> - Phil32


Can't tell you much more than what Corelz said Phil. It's a fairly common type of plane. As far as smoothing rough-sawn planks, it's a lot smaller than I would want to use for that job personally. But, any plane can do the work. It's just a matter of how much time and effort you want to put into it and how flat you want the boards to be in the end.


----------



## drsurfrat

> No luck with the #80 screw or the screw off a #83.
> - corelz125


Intersting 278 Info:
https://eaiainfo.org/2016/08/11/stanley-model-shop-278-rabbet-and-filletster-plane/
but still no screw size. Do you have an 8-32 lying around?

I'm surprised DonW hasn't straightened this out for us.


----------



## anneb3

> What can you tell me about this handplane? I
> 
> Do a search using German wood planes. i have one just about like your pic. Naturallly, I can't find the details right now. Have to start tagging this stuff





> What can you tell me about this handplane? It is 1-5/8" square x 5" long, entirely wood except for the blade, which is 1-3/16" wide x 3-1/2" long. There are no markings of any kind, including the blade. It looked like it had been used for smoothing drywall joints. Would it be suitable for smoothing rough sawn planks for a table top?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> - Phil32
> 
> Can t tell you much more than what Corelz said Phil. It s a fairly common type of plane. As far as smoothing rough-sawn planks, it s a lot smaller than I would want to use for that job personally. But, any plane can do the work. It s just a matter of how much time and effort you want to put into it and how flat you want the boards to be in the end.
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## RWE

Phil32:

I have a similar looking handplane that was meant to be a scrub plane. It is 9 inches long, the iron is basically 1.25 inches wide and very thick. The plane itself is only a fraction below 2 inches wide.

The metal plate on the bottom, the wide mounth, the thick iron, all indicate is was meant for scrub work and it does a great job on raw lumber that I get off of the bandsaw mill.

You would use it in the same way that you might use a metal smoother with a good radius on the iron and an enlarged mouth. I used a smoother and jack that way before I got the Austrian plane shown. I really like it.

I expect yours is set to be a smoother. Get a beat up #4 and set it up as a scrub. Keep that beauty the way it is.


----------



## corelz125

Don W must be out testing his arrows. I don't know if bow season is over yet. Good info there Mike. To bad they don't go into details on all of the parts.


----------



## donwilwol

> Don W must be out testing his arrows. I don t know if bow season is over yet. Good info there Mike. To bad they don t go into details on all of the parts.
> 
> - corelz125


Bow season starts in 9 months, got to hurry ;-)

I've been watching, I just don't know.

You can follow my bow building http://diy.timetestedtools.net

If covid ever goes away I'll be picking tools again, but so far everything around here is pretty much shut down.


----------



## corelz125

Nice quiver Don


----------



## Mosquito

Got a few new toys last night, more than just the #45 I went for




























This one I cleaned up, sharpened, setup, and took for a test drive


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I see a couple bases for the #45 too. Lots of eye candy there!


----------



## theoldfart

What size H&R's Mos?

Looks like a six.


----------



## Mosquito

H&R's are No. 8, and were a definite sweetener for the #45.

Oddly enough, the #45 is in rather good condition, given it had no original box, including the cam rest and screwdriver… both somewhat uncommon when no box is included lol Also the rosewood on the fence has been replaced at some point, and is longer than what is normally on a #45. There was a second rosewood fence piece, with 2 screw holes in it, that don't align with the #45's cast fence at all, so not entirely sure where that came from. At first I thought it might be from a #55, but they're shaped where as this is just a rectangular cross section.

I mainly just wanted the #45 plane, as my current type 11 is in rough shape… The H&R bases I have are Records, and I've got a No. 8 set in that. I may even have another No. 8 Stanley set… I'll check on that tonight hopefully, but one of them may be up for grabs if anyone was looking


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## HokieKen

I don't suppose that adjustable fence peeking out of the back there is for sale?  Nice haul there!


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## Mosquito

Kenny, you mean the #45 in the tool tray? No, that's my main workhorse #45… it's the one that started it all (and like the 4th plane I ever bought)


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## HokieKen

Dammit.


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## Notw

I am restoring a Stanley Sweetheart No. 5-1/4 and it has this logo on the handle which I haven't seen on any of my other planes. Can anyone tell me more about it?


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## drsurfrat

Yep, it's called "foursquare" and was one of the lesser lines, slightly cheaper, but the ones i have had were just fine. The pic you show is in amazingly new condition.


----------



## drsurfrat

Apparently almost 100 years old, unless its' a reproduction. Maybe hesitate eon restoration and see if a collector wants it They made a big toolbox set, and that was probably part of it.


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## KentInOttawa

The Four Square had lever caps that were unique to them. Earlier planes had a pebbled cap similar to some of the transitional planes while later planes had the Four Square logo that is on your tote on their lever caps. I'll post a picture of the pebbled cap later. IIRC, the cap design changed in the 1930s. Sorry, but I can't recall where I got any of this info.

Edit: Rob Kaune sells the Four Square caps.


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## Notw

So based on mike's post the sweetheart blade is most likely not original to this plane?


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## Notw

> The Four Square had lever caps that were unique to them. Earlier planes had a pebbled cap similar to some of the transitional planes while later planes had the Four Square logo that is on your tote on their lever caps. I ll post a picture of the pebbled cap later. IIRC, the cap design changed in the 1930s. Sorry, but I can t recall where I got any of this info.
> 
> Edit: Rob Kaune sells the Four Square caps.
> 
> - Kent


looks like based on some Google Fu that there is the pebbled version shown on Rab Kaune's page with the Stanley logo and then there is also another pebbled version with the four square logo as well. Mine has neither haha. It has a smooth lever cap and a Sweetheart blade. I will assume it is a FrankenPlane.

oh and Mike, the ship has sailed on restoring it.


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## drsurfrat

It's a tool, making it useful and beautiful is not a bad thing.

the SW logo *might* be correct, it is the same era ('23-'30), and I don't know about a different logo for the iron on the four squares.


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## drsurfrat

the SW iron is good, i think, mine has it, too


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## Mosquito

Anyone have either a #113 lever cap to get rid of, or in want of the rest of a #113? I know it fits a #3 lever cap, but they're not quite the same.


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## Mosquito

Or a Siegley no. 6 before I clean it up to sell elsewhere?


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## HokieKen

I happen to have several 113s on my Ebay watchlist Mos  I can come up with a lever cap somewhere I imagine if you want to sell what you have there. PM me what you want.


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## DLK

> Yep, it s called "foursquare" and was one of the lesser lines, slightly cheaper, but the ones i have had were just fine. The pic you show is in amazingly new condition.
> 
> - drsurfrat


But people do collect them.


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## rad457

> I happen to have several 113s on my Ebay watchlist Mos  I can come up with a lever cap somewhere I imagine if you want to sell what you have there. PM me what you want.
> 
> - HokieKen


Everyone "Needs" one! look so cool on the shelf, and I am sure someday will find use for mine  After all I have used the #79 a couple of times, so over bid and have a #98 an #99 on the way.

Gave up on finding a reasonable old #62, so ordered the new SW? Now the problem is finding some extra irons to try different bevels on!


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## Mosquito

I recently got a #98 and #99 maybe a month ago. They're in the same drawer as the #444 now, as my intention was for them to be used together, which I'm sure they will be… whenever I use the #444 lol

This is my second #113. I've also got a #13 still in the arsenal for now. Got them when I bought one of my #55's, a #45, and a bunch of other random parts from some one off Craigslist a number of years ago. Didn't really care about these, but they were part of the group


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## Ocelot

I have one of those FourSquare Household Jacks and it came to me clean and very nicely sharpened, so I had nothing to do with it but stick it in the file cabinet after a little test. I like it a lot. No real difference from my other 5 1/4 bailey. I don't think either has a frog adjust screw but I can't recall for sure.

-Paul


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## bandit571

Went to a place for a rust hunt…









Does this count?









$75 K-4…..









Amongst others…









Winchester No. W 4…$65..









Winchester No. W 6c….$80..









Keen Kutter "Wooden Plane"....









Hmmm, one for MOS?









And..what did Frugal ( cheap) me walk away with…









Stanley No. 5 Jack Plane ($20)









Oh, and a marking gauge..









That Smitty might like?


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## corelz125

Marking gauge even comes with its own mustache. $10 difference between the k4 and w4 its the same plane. Just a different lever cap


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## Mosquito

just goes to show you there's value in a name lol



> Does this count?
> 
> - bandit571


Sure, we'll call it a "compass rabbet plane" :-D


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Early SW logo to boot. Very nice.

Tried to find another example of the No. 278's thumbscrew "in situ" on another plane. Tried…
- thumbscrew for depth stop on 289: no
- thumbscrew for depth stop on a 98/99 side rabbet: no
- thumbscrew for No. 66 fence: no
- capscrew for no. 95: no

Misc. other planes - no.

Weird (and quite unique) size for a stanley thumbscrew.


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## corelz125

Any #45 screws fit it? I'm you g to send the plane to Kenny so he can find the right size. Smitty do you have a #171? Bandit what was that fella hiding in the box next to the block planes? I see a MF v line mixed in there.


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## HokieKen

45 screws are all too big. At least on mine. It's got to be a #8 or #6. I'm guessing 8 from Smitty's picture. I don't recall another thread that size on any Stanley's I've had. Spur screws are 6-32 IIRC. Send it my way and I'll sort it out. Or break it. It's about even odds between the two ;-)


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I do.


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## corelz125

Is the 171 a shelf queen or has it's use? Came across one price was low but rose real quick towards the end and had no fence. Kenny you break it you buy it. If I haven't broke one yet I doubt you will.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oops, misspoke. I don't have a 171. Totally thought of a different piece of hardware when answering earlier.

That said, I've actually considered picking up one of those. Decided not to, haven't regretted it. Buying one that's not complete would be tough. They're not necessarily rare, but parts specific to the No. 171 aren't very available.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...Kenny you break it you buy it. If I haven t broke one yet I doubt you will.
> 
> - corelz125


Hmmm. I would like to have a 278…

;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Somebody fill me in on shoulder planes. I see the value and usefulness. But I don't see why the shoulder planes cost so much more than something like a 78 which are plentiful and cheap. I typically use a rabbeting block plane for the tasks that a shoulder plane would be used for. But sometimes I can see the usefulness of having something a little taller (so can my knuckles).


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## HokieKen

Nevermind, I think I answered my own question with regards to the 78. It's bed angle is too steep to be effective on endgrain. And I can see the advantage of a smaller size and having the "tote" more in line with the low-angle bedded blade. And I definitely see the advantage of having a larger area on the side to register against vs a block plane like I currently use (which is what piqued my curiosity on the subject to begin with )


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## corelz125

I like the 90 for the size over the 78.


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## HokieKen

I think I would prefer the longer toe section of the 92/93/94 planes to the 90. Seems like it would be easier to balance on short shoulders? I don't really know since I have no experience with any of them… Not planning on buying any time soon but I am setting up some search alerts so any input is welcome


----------



## rad457

Found the feel makes a difference, have the small 1/2" Veritas but for the larger 3/4" went with the L.N.
The ones I use a lot it seems are a set of 3 baby ones from Lee Valley 1/8", 1/4" and 3/8"  Not sure they even sell them anymore?


----------



## theoldfart

I have the medium LN, bought it years ago. For trimming rebates, tenons and dados nothing beats it.


----------



## Mosquito

Record 073 myself, which is what LN iterated on for their large. Over the years, I've wanted a smaller/lighter shoulder plane. The 073 is great for rabbets, but a little wide for most dado's and tenons I do


----------



## RWE

Well I have what I thought of as a shoulder plane. It is my favorite plane of all, followed by the Bedrock 608.

According to Mr. Leach:
*#94 Cabinet makers' rabbet plane, 7 1/2"L, 1 1/4"W, 2lbs, 1902-1943. **
This plane is the most difficult to find of the series, and it's doubly difficult to find in crispy, nickely new condition. Furthermore, because of the extra length of mating surfaces between the toe section and heel section, the machined area where the two meet can often be found cracked or with chunks of the toe section broken out. The planes also seem to suffer cracks where the toe section arches down to meet the heel section more often than its smaller brothers do. Check this area very carefully as cracks in this area can be very difficult to detect.

I actually contacted Leach about it and sent pictures to him. Turns out it has a flaw that is typical (as noted in his writeup about the #94 series). In the picture, you can see the gap in where the plane top rests on the bottom. Hairline cracks develop there. In my case, the fellow I bought it from, had filed the area and I did not even notice the issue.

So I use it as a shoulder plane and size 1.25 inches wide, very heavy, makes it perform beautifully for tenon shoulders or trimming the tenons themselves.

According to Leach, it is the earliest of that series and the largest, having only Stanley on the adjusting knob. He said that they were more commonly sold in England since folks there found them to be similar in feel to infils that they were used to. Not many sold here.

It is my flawed beauty. Weird thing is, I bought it from a fellow who had boxed up his father's old planes and I paid like $100 for a box that had an very early #6, the #94, two "violin makers" Stanley planes and some other assorted goodies. This guy lived down the hill a few blocks and it turned out to be one of the best deals I ever got. He listed this on a local trading site. I was in the hunt for a #7 and thought the #6 was a seven from the picture. Almost did not do the deal.


----------



## HokieKen

I think I'll just grab this one to try it out and see how I like it. Then if I use it a lot, I'll upgrade.


----------



## Mosquito

Oh hell, you buy it, I'll go pick it up and throw it in with the #113 and save some shipping lol


----------



## HokieKen

Whew! Thanks Mos. That $40 shipping was the only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger!


----------



## Notw

There is a make offer option, you might be able to get it for US $2,398.99


----------



## Mosquito

Ok, that just changed…. when I looked when Kenny posted it, it was definitely showing $49.99 shipping, and I was pretty sure it was $2,299 lol

That same seller has a bunch BCT stuff listed on craigslist too, and some other various things. They're also looking to buy BCT planes, if anyone has one to sell


----------



## rad457

> I think I ll just grab this one to try it out and see how I like it. Then if I use it a lot, I ll upgrade.
> 
> - HokieKen


Declined my $40.00 offer (Plane Swap ) An won't ship to Canada?


----------



## HokieKen

You can have it shipped direct to me Andre. I'll just give you my name for the swap. You're welcome.


----------



## rad457

> You can have it shipped direct to me Andre. I ll just give you my name for the swap. You re welcome.
> 
> - HokieKen


Might as well, my Gramercy Dove tail saw came out of the box only to sit in the Saw till, still have never used it 
Did use the handle as patterns for some shop made saws, an we won't mention the 2 Cherries chisel, still in the box!
Seriously who actually buys these Tools? See a bunch at Lee Valley now an just shake my head.


----------



## Notw

I don't know who buys them but i would like to so i could get included on their will LOL


----------



## bandit571

This came in the Mail box, today..









And I am expecting the Stanley #45, Type 3 to arrive Saturday….until then?



























I suppose I could clean this plane up? $20 for a Type 19? At least I picked up an oil stone to sharpen it with..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm a fan of the smaller 92 over the 93. Haven't tried a 94. Never have seen a common use / benefit to the No. 75 / No. 90 bullnose variations.

Interesting on the 94 love you have, RWE, and it's a great story!


----------



## RWE

Like Bandit, I do try to keep my prices down. I had lusted for a shoulder plane and then that 94 jumped into my lap. The weirdest part was that my wife saw the ad in the Facebook trading post and told me about it. How odd is that, spousal approval and help in tool acquisition. I checked and I picked it up in 2016 which was when I began transitioning from power tools to hand tools or at least hybrid.

I assume the 92 and 93 adjust easily. The fine adjustment of the 94 is what I love about it. At 1.25 inches you can even use it on 3/4 stock edges like a smoother. Like a miniature #8, it has enough weight and heft that it is easy to use.

I have always wanted to try an infil (sp?) to see how they feel and cut.


----------



## corelz125

I have a #5 type 19 it works great. I doubt my wife will ever encourage me to buy more tools. She would probably sell them before enable me.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I like the 90 for the size over the 78.
> 
> - corelz125





> I think I would prefer the longer toe section of the 92/93/94 planes to the 90. Seems like it would be easier to balance on short shoulders? I don t really know since I have no experience with any of them… Not planning on buying any time soon but I am setting up some search alerts so any input is welcome
> 
> - HokieKen


Me too. To both of you.

I have an unnumbered E Preston & Sons snub-nosed rabbet plane, 1 1/4" wide. I like it for its weight and balance. I felt that it could sometimes be longer, so I bought a Stanley 92. It's narrower at 3/4 inch but feels nicely balanced. I also have a Soviet-era wooden skew rabbet plane that still needs more fettling before I can use it.



















Overall, I feel that they all have their time and place.


----------



## HokieKen

I like the look of that Preston Kent. I'm leaning to something like the 92 in size I think. However after some poking around on ebay, I have a feeling this may be another situation like a #62 or #112 where the vintage planes sell for so much that it just makes more sense to go with a Veritas or LN.


----------



## Mosquito

funny story, I almost paid LN money for my Record 073… I put in a bid on eBay, but forgot that it was from the UK, and I was bidding in GBP not USD lol Luckily, no one else bid after me, so I was no where near what I had entered, thank goodness lol


----------



## KentInOttawa

Kenny - It took a lot of patience, but I picked up my 92 on eBay for US$69 + S&H. New planes from the premium brands don't go for that little.


----------



## HokieKen

You're right Kent, I'd drop $69 too. I'm just not seeing many listings and the ones I do see have high opening bids and no best offer options. I'm in no hurry though so I'll keep watching for a while.


----------



## HokieKen

I may never get one. Mos keeps making me buy planes I don't really need from him so I'm gonna run out of money.


----------



## siemensgeek

Can someone help me identify the manufacturer of this No. 3 sized plane?









The body has casting marks of "MADE IN U.S.A." and "C72" 









The lever cap has a casting mark of "115". The lever rides directly on the cap iron with no leaf spring between the two parts. The hole is a straight keyhole shape.









The cutting iron is thick and tapers from 5/32" at the bevel end to 1/16" at the top end. There is no name engraved on it.









The only mark on the cap iron is a circle on the under side. I need to look, but I swear nearly all of my planes have that circle on the cap iron. What's up with that?









The frog has "C55" cast on the bottom side. The depth adjuster is 1" in diameter. The lateral adjustment lever is folded in a sharp inverted 'V'. The depth adjuster yoke has "601" cast in it.

























The tote and knob are just some kind of stained hardwood.

I searched the Internet for "C72 hand plane" and the results came back as Stanley Handyman but all of the Handyman planes I see have the kidney shaped hole in the lever cap. I'm sure it is some manufacturers lower end plane but after cleaning and sharpening that thick cutting iron planes very nicely.


----------



## corelz125

I was looking for a 112 but didnt want to pay what they go for, but then I found the Sargent 59 for way less. Plus the Sargents are a little more scarce.


----------



## corelz125

Looks like its a handyman frankenplane. Off the top of my mind Ohio tools had tapered irons but there was probably other ones. There's no logo on the iron?


----------



## HokieKen

That's a Handyman SG. No idea what's dinging your cap irons though…


----------



## corelz125

Start listing all your 78's for sale. Paul Sellers showed how you can use one as a scrub plane. So the die hard Sellerites will be looking for 78s now.


----------



## HokieKen

Wait, you mean I'm supposed to sell them instead of just buying them?


----------



## corelz125

If you have more than 3 it's ok to sell the extras


----------



## bandit571

Stanley "Whale Tail" pre-1962….Maybe a Defiance model….


----------



## CO_Goose

> If you have more than 3 it s ok to sell the extras
> 
> - corelz125


Really? I thought the number was 30.


----------



## Karda

the rule is if you have an even number you have to buy another


----------



## rad457

> Start listing all your 78 s for sale. Paul Sellers showed how you can use one as a scrub plane. So the die hard Sellerites will be looking for 78s now.
> 
> - corelz125


I did have 2, but actually sold one now have 2 #45 an a #050 Record on the way


----------



## HokieKen

I just recently bought a MF 85 (78 equivalent) and haven't made the first shaving with it so I'm not gonna sell it yet ;-) Besides, that youtube video was from back in 2018 Corelz. If we haven't seen the "Sellers Rush" yet, I think it's passed. I haven't watched it but it kinda makes sense - it's a short plane with some mass and a wide open mouth. I think I'd have to add a knob to the front though if I was gonna scrub with it.

You going on a combo plane binge now Andre? ;-p Those users or shelf-sitters?

I'm kinda curious about a #50 myself. They sell pretty cheap and it seems like they would be quicker to set up for plowing than the 45 because of how the blade is gripped between the body and skate. Do 45 cutters fit the 50 plane? If so, I might pick up a beater just for poops and giggles.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm a fan of the 50. Had an extra, and wrote a bit about it here.


The one that lives in the tool chest needed parts and a good cleaning.


----------



## Mosquito

Kenny, they should fit, but you'll lose the depth adjustment, if the #50 you get has it (they used a different mechanism that uses the slotted back irons).


----------



## siemensgeek

Thanks for all the replies. I think Bandit is right it is a Whale Tail Stanley and I think corelz125 is right that it is a frankenplane. I seriously doubt that the iron is original. The iron isn't marked in any way so I don't know what it may be. I know some consider this a "Junk" plane but It sure does plane nicely. I have plenty of "Good" old Stanley planes and they do indeed work well but I have quit buying them. I'm not good enough at woodworking yet to see the difference. As far as I can tell if an iron is sharpened correctly, if the cap iron is fitted without gaps and the frog presents the iron at a 45 degree angle to the wood with the correct mouth opening then the wood doesn't know if the maker was Stanley, Sargent, Millers Falls, .... But then I do watch Paul Sellers. In fact Paul Sellers is the reason I got back into woodworking.

I saw a sign for sale at an antique store that I wish I had bought. It said "I Buy and Sell Antiques" with the Sell part xed out. I have gotten a little more selective about what I buy. It has to be something I don't already have or have some unique feature, like a thick tapered iron. I have 3 Stanley 78's so I guess I need to buy another one.

Greg


----------



## Ocelot

Kenny,

Over in england the Record, Woden, WS lineage of 78's had a wooden knob that was mounted on the front blade mount when you weren't doing bullnose work.

Like this. https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/coYAAOSwlXJf2EVD/s-l1600.jpg
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/sBoAAOSwjmFf2EUb/s-l1600.jpg


----------



## corelz125

That's all that matters Greg that it works for you.


----------



## RWE

I caught the Sellers wave. I had a 190 Rabbet plane sitting on the shelf. I would not sacrifice a 78, not that crazy.



















It works okay. Get a lot of bandsaw mill lumber that I have to pre-process before I can use the power jointer or power planner. So I wanted a scrub for that purpose.

A few months later this showed up at one of my favorite Flea Malls. It works much better. Posted about it earlier.


----------



## RWE

Hokie:

I had someone give me a 50. It has been sitting on the shelf. Just pulled it out. It seems the 45 irons will work, but they bump into the handle of my model 50. It may require a shorter iron to work well. This 50 seems to be an earlier cheaper version without the 78 style of adjuster. Will give it a try. I believe that I could do a little bit of filing on the handle and the irons would fit flush to the side slits. May be just a bit less than flush now.


----------



## Mosquito

^ Pssh, knuckles are overrated anyway…


----------



## HokieKen

I see. Thanks for showing that RWE. Looks like I'll keep an eye out for one without the depth adjuster and figure on filing the handle a bit. I definitely don't need one all pretty and shiny like Smittys!


----------



## Mosquito

alternatively, you could just take 3/8" thick depth of cut instead


----------



## HokieKen

Sometimes, that's how it feels with the 45 anyway depending on the wood ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

lol sometimes that first test run when setting it up at the beginning… that unmistakable sound of a 45 ripping chunks of wood off and grinding to a hualt after an inch… lol


----------



## theoldfart

I've never had that happen ….....

And if you believe that bs I'm sorry but you need help.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm not sure I've ever had anything else happen on the first pass…


----------



## Notw

Family picture day 
Stanley Sweetheart No. 62
Stanley Bailey No. 5 Type 9
Stanley Four Square No. 5-1/4 
Stanley Bailey No. 4 type 19
Stanley Bailey No. 3 type 10
Stanley No. 9-1/2 block plane
Stanley Sweetheart No. 60-1/2 block plane
Stanley No. 92 shoulder plane
Veritas router plane

And my Stanley Bailey No. 6 showed up today and needs to be restored


----------



## HokieKen

I think I see a sad little fella hiding down there on the back of the shelf under your bench Notw :-( You should include ALL of your children in the family photo. Even the ugly ones you don't like that much ;-)


----------



## Karda

ken i don't think that is a complete plane


----------



## Lazyman

Take the funny looking kid out of the basement!


----------



## HokieKen

... but you can't take the basement out of the funny looking kid.


----------



## Ocelot

wat! No shaves?!


----------



## HokieKen

I could swap him a shave for that Knew Concepts photobombing back there…


----------



## Mosquito

> I m not sure I ve ever had anything else happen on the first pass…
> 
> - HokieKen


Nothing, is usually the other alternative lol


----------



## Notw

The ugly kid locked in the basement is the sole or soul of a stanley bailey No. 3 that my wife bought me for Christmas, upon receiving it i discovered it began it's life as a 3C and someone had ground almost all the corrugation off the bottom. So i replaced the sole with another one.


----------



## drsurfrat

Ouch. Man, sometimes those lappers don't know when to stop.


----------



## HokieKen

Ha! When you want it flat, you make it FLAT!


----------



## corelz125

Since the 62s are a hot topic around here how do you like the sweetheart 62?


----------



## Notw

I like it a lot, i've never used another 62 to compare to but it does everything i need it to do.


----------



## rad457

> I like it a lot, i ve never used another 62 to compare to but it does everything i need it to do.
> 
> - Notw


LOL! Ya better say good things about it, I bought one only because of your glowing reviews
I've used the Veritas version and have a Veritas L.A. #4 so curious how it will feel/perform?
Come to think about did try a L.N. #62 back in 2014, just have no clear memory for some reason?


----------



## donwilwol

My understanding of the SW 62 is if you get a good one it's fine, but it my take two or three tries to get a good one.

The good thing is, they'll keep send one until you do.

It's all hearsay, my user is an LN.


----------



## HokieKen

I read the same about QA issues with the 62. Also, check it when you get it for the sides square to the sole if you plan to shoot with it. That was one of the common complaints.

Also hearsay though, my user is a Veritas.


----------



## corelz125

So is a brand new 62 made any better, worse, or comparible to an old 62?


----------



## HokieKen

I think the Norris adjuster is the main advantage of the new ones. Other than that, the design seems unchanged. Even still uses the eccentric lever to adjust the mouth.


----------



## Peteybadboy

MY 62 and I love it


----------



## HokieKen

Well damn. Now I don't see any way I can not buy it with $400 off!


----------



## Mosquito

lol I got the same thing a few days ago too. They've got some interesting tactics lol

When you first linked it, I swear it was $2249, with $59.99 shipping. Then you said something about $40, shipping, and it was at $2399 with $39.99 shipping… Now they send a $400 off offer… I wonder how well that works


----------



## corelz125

Hey maybe if you keep mentioning it you'll get it for 999.99 plus 39.99 shipping.


----------



## G5Flyr

Since you were all talking about shoulder planes a few days ago I thought I'd show mine:



















The big guy on the left is nothing special… Just a Wood River medium shoulder plane. I was in a bind a few years ago and needed a shoulder plane right away. A quick drive to the local Woodcraft and I was back in business.

The little guy is an eBay find from 2019. Came in a nice box with the original sales receipt.

Here are two more views:


----------



## G5Flyr

If anyone has a Stanley #46 could you post some pics? For me it's the Holy Grail of planes. I had my eye on one but let it go because of the price. It was a beauty though!

I'm also a huge fan of the #289. Pics of one of those would be great too.


----------



## corelz125

That's a nice looking 90 there g5


----------



## HokieKen

> If anyone has a Stanley #46 could you post some pics? For me it s the Holy Grail of planes. I had my eye on one but let it go because of the price. It was a beauty though!
> 
> I m also a huge fan of the #289. Pics of one of those would be great too.
> 
> - G5Flyr


Pop in over in the Stanley 45 thread. Been some pics and discussion about the 46 lately. My take is that it works better than the 45 for plowing dados and rabbets but I sure wish it had a depth adjuster and adjustable fence like the 45….


----------



## G5Flyr

..."but I sure wish it had a depth adjuster and adjustable fence like the 45"

-Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!"

Agreed. Thanks for the referral.


----------



## Mosquito

They must not have come up with anything that worked well for depth adjustment I would imagine. The 45 had a depth adjuster for almost 50 years before the 46 went out of production.

And the micro adjust fence was introduced on the 45 in 1915, 27 years before end of 46 production


----------



## G5Flyr

> They must not have come up with anything that worked well for depth adjustment I would imagine. The 45 had a depth adjuster for almost 50 years before the 46 went out of production.
> 
> And the micro adjust fence was introduced on the 45 in 1915, 27 years before end of 46 production
> 
> - Mosquito


Mos-

My head just exploded. (LOL)

Your knowledge is amazing. 

Given the skew, I can see not being able to change depth adjustment on the 46 but why not a micro adjust fence like the 45? Were the main bodies that much different?


----------



## Mosquito

That's the thing that's sort of confusing, fundamentally the fences are the same, until the #45 got the micro adjustment, but the #46 never did… I wonder if it was a sales volume thing, since the #55 got the same micro adjustment treatment that the #45 did…

It's the sorts of things I think about, instead of work lol


----------



## rad457

> That s the thing that s sort of confusing, fundamentally the fences are the same, until the #45 got the micro adjustment, but the #46 never did… I wonder if it was a sales volume thing, since the #55 got the same micro adjustment treatment that the #45 did…
> 
> It s the sorts of things I think about, instead of work lol
> 
> - Mosquito


LOL! the thing that keeps me smiling is that 7 year old you tube Video I came across the other night


----------



## Lazyman

BTW, for any of you who knows anything about the Stanley 77 Dowel maker, I posted a forum topic seeking advice on getting better results with it. So if any of you have experience with that device I would appreciate a look.


----------



## HokieKen

So this just happened…


----------



## controlfreak

Nice one! Did you already have a No. 8 or is this the first? Its not like you to have a bunch of MF planes around the shop.


----------



## rad457

Congrats you dang enabler you Guess where my SW #62 is (ERLANGER, KY)


----------



## HokieKen

I do have a bunch of MF planes around the shop. And now I'll have one more ;-) That's a Millers Falls 24 with the iron from a Stanley 8.

So if anyone happens to have a 2-5/8" Millers Falls iron and wants to swap it for a Stanley, sound off 

And this is the only #8 sized plane I've had CF…


----------



## KentInOttawa

Wonderful, Kenny. How long have you been chasing an MF 24? And it's a C, to boot. (My preference)

Andre - not Erlanger??! I don't believe it. </sarcasm>


----------



## Karda

now you have to find it brothers and sisters


----------



## HokieKen

I've been chasing a full set of MF bench planes for 5 years or so Kent. I had finally come to the decision that a 24 was probably never gonna make its way to me because I've never seen one in the wild and they only come up on ebay a couple of times a year and usually sell for well above what I'd be willing to pay. So when that one popped up at $150 BIN with free shipping this morning, I scanned the pics as fast as I could to make sure there were no surprises and clicked the button as fast as I could 

Now the only bench plane I lack is a #7 (#2 size) and I've never seen one for sale and probably couldn't afford it if I did. I'll still leave a slot for it when I build a new till though ;-)


----------



## rad457

> I ve been chasing a full set of MF bench planes for 5 years or so Kent. I had finally come to the decision that a 24 was probably never gonna make its way to me because I ve never seen one in the wild and they only come up on ebay a couple of times a year and usually sell for well above what I d be willing to pay. So when that one popped up at $150 BIN with free shipping this morning, I scanned the pics as fast as I could to make sure there were no surprises and clicked the button as fast as I could
> 
> Now the only bench plane I lack is a #7 (#2 size) and I ve never seen one for sale and probably couldn t afford it if I did. I ll still leave a slot for it when I build a new till though ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


5 years, not sure I'll be around in another 5 years? I stopped at the #14 Not sure what I would do if I came across a M.F.s #7 or a #602, really doubt I could afford or find one nicer than my #407 Thanks Kent!


----------



## drsurfrat

Hey, congrats Kenny!

Wood movement:
I don't particularly care, but though I'd share. The wood is quartersawn, (beech?) but there is still a bad twist here. There are some superficial water stains. And it's probably one of those Sandusky sets from 100 years ago. Just an interesting curiosity.


----------



## RWE

I have commented on needing to work with wood that I get from a friend who mills lumber on a bandsaw mill. If I want to keep a board wider than my 6 inch jointer will permit, then I grab an wooden Austrian scrub, then #4's and #5's to flatten the board and eventually get to the #8 for jointing the edge. I love the heft of a #8 and have never used #7's that much. The only thing a 7 gives you is lighter weight. I am not a collector, but I do have two sevens, and I rarely use them. I think it comes down to personal preference, but when you get that 8 to moving, it is likely to keep going.

As long as the board is 13 inches or less, I still use the power planner, but I hand plane pre-process it to get it flat on one side.

So enjoy your 8 and don't worry about a 7, unless you are a collector.


----------



## corelz125

Beat me to it Kenny


----------



## HokieKen

I already have a #7 sized Miller Falls RWE. But honestly, I rarely find it necessary to use anything bigger than my #15 (5-1/2 size). I may use the 24 though because of the extra width and mass. We'll see. Either way, I'll be glad to see it in the till with the rest of its family ;-P

Ya snooze ya loose Corelz!


----------



## Mosquito

drsurfrat, that is interesting, I don't know that I've come across a wood plane that far out myself…

Kenny, congrats on the 24, I just sold my old KK8 (the one Sansoo's replaced), as well as an IBC iron to go with it.

I used to use my #5-1/2 for pretty much everything, as I mostly worked smaller scale items where the #5-1/2 was big enough for jointing and flattening. It was for the longest time, my go-to smoother, all tuned up and flat, etc when I was using my Stanley Type 11's.

Now that I'm using my KK series planes instead, I've found myself gravitating towards my #6 in place of the #5-1/2 before, and the #5-1/2 is now set up for a little heavier work than the #6. I have no idea why I like such a large plane for smoothing, but there's just something I like about it. I haven't done much with my KK7 since I started using the KK8, and especially now that I have such a nice KK8 

I really need to clean up the rest of my KK planes, especially the KK4-1/2… maybe I'll go back to using that as my heavy smoother like I did when I first got my Stanley 4-1/2…


----------



## Mosquito

This is the old KK8 I just sold. Never did clean it up, but it was sharp and set up


----------



## RWE

Dang. All you Millers Falls guys are confusing. A #2 is a Miller Falls #7. Whatever. Makes me feel like a dummy. I should read closer. At least you did provide the translation to Stanley numbering.

In any event, I still like a #8 size better than a #7 size. See what you think when you get it. Use it flatten your workbench and that will make a believer out of you.


----------



## HokieKen

LOL, sometimes I wish MF had just used Stanley's numbering so I wouldn't have to translate RWE  Millers Falls numbering is easy though, it's the length of the sole in inches. At least close to it.

My MF10 (4-1/2 size) is definitely my go-to smoother Mos. I don't even know the last time the #3 or 4 size came out of the till. I like my #6 sized plane too and I'm not sure why I tend to grab the 5-1/2 size more often for jointing unless it's just the narrower width balances easier on edges. I should probably start forcing myself to use the full gamut of planes I have rather than just reaching for the same 3 or 4 of them all the time. Would probably reduce the amount of time I spend sharpening the irons in my favorites…


----------



## Mosquito

In the long run it wouldn't reduce the sharpening time, as you'd be sharpening more planes, less often, I think, but it would at least spread out the wear lol

I'm in the same boat though, but I have to clean the rest up first…


----------



## corelz125

A #7 Miller's Falls is the same size as. Stanley #2 MF numbered their planes by the size of it. More or less


----------



## Notw

I am a huge fan of vintage Stanley tools and want to add a cabinet scraper to my arsenal but am having a tough time justifying paying $40 or more plus shipping to get a Stanley No. 80 when I can get a new wood river #80 cabinet scraper for $48.99. Is there any benefit of one over the other?


----------



## HokieKen

Can't really say Notw. I have a vintage #80 and use it all the time. I haven't ever had a WR though so can't really compare. It's pretty darned simple so I can't imagine it being any big difference. The reviews on Woodcraft seem to suggest issues with poor machining and soles not being flat. But I imagine if you go in person you can investigate that before you walk out with it.


----------



## Mosquito

I've only looked at the WR #80 in the store, haven't owned one to use, but they felt a little more crude than the old Stanleys, but truthfully as long as the bottom is flat, and it holds the scraper, I doubt there'd be much practical difference between the two


----------



## BlasterStumps

drsurfrat, wonder if you could put that wooden plane in a steam box and straighten it back up?


----------



## Notw

> Can t really say Notw. I have a vintage #80 and use it all the time. I haven t ever had a WR though so can t really compare. It s pretty darned simple so I can t imagine it being any big difference. The reviews on Woodcraft seem to suggest issues with poor machining and soles not being flat. But I imagine if you go in person you can investigate that before you walk out with it.
> 
> - HokieKen





> I ve only looked at the WR #80 in the store, haven t owned one to use, but they felt a little more crude than the old Stanleys, but truthfully as long as the bottom is flat, and it holds the scraper, I doubt there d be much practical difference between the two
> 
> - Mosquito


Thanks, maybe I should be patient and hopefully a Stanley No. 80 will come across Ebay at a good price


----------



## HokieKen

They do Notw. Not sure you'll find a complete one much cheaper than that though…


----------



## Notw

It seems a lot of people are in one group or another on plane brands. HokieKen (Go Hokies) is a fan and collector of Miller Falls, I personally like the Stanley brand, then there are also Keen Kutter, etc. What makes a person lean towards one brand or another?

For me the first plane I got was a Stanley Bailey No. 4 that was my grandfather's. It was covered in rust and the tote and handle were both broken. I took my time and restored the plane and made a new tote and handle for it. Ever since then I have been interested in Stanley planes and vintage tools.


----------



## RWE

In my case, my love for my Stanley 608 Bedrock made me try to collect the line from 3 to 8. The Keen Kutter K series saved my bacon, I have a 3 and a 4 and they are essentially round rocks (early 603 and 604), the early Bedrock labeled as a K this or that number. I have the 605, 607 and 608. I have two early Stanley 6's that I don't particularly use much. So I am not driven to round out the collection.

There is a lot of information on the internet that states that the Bedrock series is overblown and practically not any better than a regular Stanley. Probably true. But you have to pick a cult to join.

I am somewhat in agreement however with Don W. I think highly of the Sargent planes that I have landed. One is a number 5 equivalent VBM or something along those lines and the other is a Sargent transitional that is a joy to use, Jack sized.

It is probably a cult-like mentality when you get down to it. Unless you are Paul Sellers or somebody very skilled, any of the planes will work if flattened and sharpened. At least the top tier of the vintage planes.

If Sargent planes were locally plentiful, I would like a lot more, but they are had to find in my area. Pick a side and join in the hunt.


----------



## HokieKen

For me, the first two planes I bought were Stanleys. And they were great users but, I had a constant battle with loosening the front knob when I was planing. It must just be my technique but for whatever reason, I tend to twist my left hand CCW during my stroke. So then I stumbled on a MF9 (Stanley 4 size) at a yard sale and bought it. Well, after I sharpened it up, I got to noticing that no matter how long I planed with it, the knob never moved. So I decided to do an overhaul on it since I liked it so much. When I took it apart, I saw the cast ribs under the knob and the grooves in the bottom of the knob  Plus it didn't hurt that I thought the red frogs and the painted recess behind the name on the lever caps was sexy. And I think the 3-point lever cap is a solid design with theoretical advantage over a solid one. I don't think it provides and real-world practical advantage but it did get a patent and was something distinguishing. And it definitely didn't hurt that when browsing Ebay I noticed that in general, MF planes sell for a bit less than Stanley ;-p

FWIW, several years later I still find myself loosening the knob on my Veritas LAJ so it wasn't a problem I had with Stanley specifically…


----------



## Notw

Can't fight that logic HokieKen


----------



## Mosquito

I started with Stanley's, (a Type 15-ish Franken 7), eventually went down the road of Type 11's after having a few different types of Stanleys. I liked the frog adjustment screw on the back, and the low knob of the type 11. I put together a 3-8 set of those. They were my users until maybe 2 years ago.

I had a Keen Kutter K and KK plane in the bunch randomly. Didn't really care about the K bedrock thing (I get the draw, but never got into Bedrocks), but the KK series I liked. I liked that it had a low knob, and thick tapered irons. They were also easier to come by and cheaper than Ohio planes around here it seemed. I eventually put together a set of those, 3-8 (they only made 3-8). One day I got curious because of the thick tapered irons, if they would possibly work with aftermarket thick plane irons intended to fit modern planes (0.140" thick plane irons from IBC, specifically). I tested one out, and it did indeed work. So I've started adding a few IBC blades in to my KK planes, and they are my main users because they are low knob, different from and usually cheaper than Stanley's, and can fit a nice thick A2 iron.

I also put together a set of 3-8 early Stanley owned Siegley bench planes. These were mainly because I liked the look, and felt like putting together another set collection. (Yeah, I said it lol). I would be surprised if I ever used these on a regular basis. They're single iron, no chip breaker, and I find them rather uncomfortable due to the tote sizes and casting side wall shape. It digs into my hand too much. They are significantly lighter than the KK or Stanley bench planes though


----------



## drsurfrat

I'm a Stanley guy mostly. My users are all flat top bedrocks just cause I like the look and they are as good and solid as anything I've ever used. And they have the leave-the-levercap frog adjustment pins which I use, um, never. This is unbelievably OCD, but I can't stand the lateral levers on all the other similar planes. I like the pressed tab on top and the disk to engage the iron. The twisted or bent stampings bother me.

I do really like the Chaplin (O.R. and Improved) planes for style and finish - pretty unique adjustment layout, and the bakelite or hard rubber totes are very cool. They are too collectable to use, but I have a 22" jointer, 9" smoother, and a block plane.


----------



## Mosquito

> This is unbelievably OCD, but I can t stand the lateral levers on all the other similar planes. I like the pressed tab on top and the disk to engage the iron. The twisted or bent stampings bother me.
> - drsurfrat


I will definitely give you that one Mike… I can live with out the frog adjusting screw, and the bedrock style pins, as I pretty much never use it once I got the plane setup (something I realized I was ok with when I switched to my KK's), but the Stanley lateral adjustment levers are my favorite as well… the one thing I wish my KK planes had.

The Chaplin Improved are interesting indeed. I need to use mine more often. I have a 1210 (#7 sized, 22" jointer) as well.


----------



## KentInOttawa

I like to root for the underdogs, so I don't mind any of the "not-Stanleys", although I have mostly Stanleys because of what's available at a reasonable cost here. Somehow I ended up with more Type 18 made-in-Canada corrugated Stanleys for my bench planes, so I'm looking to fill out that set some more. Now, due mostly to exposure, they seem to speak to me nicely so I listen. That being said, I prefer the older 1" steel depth adjusters (pre-WW1 & some WW2/T-17s) and most of my non-bench planes are British. That's just luck.


----------



## rad457

> I am a huge fan of vintage Stanley tools and want to add a cabinet scraper to my arsenal but am having a tough time justifying paying $40 or more plus shipping to get a Stanley No. 80 when I can get a new wood river #80 cabinet scraper for $48.99. Is there any benefit of one over the other?
> 
> - Notw


Never seen a Wood river but I do have a Veritas and a Stanley #80 (with a Hock Iron), Slight difference in sole size and mouth an heel dimensions, find the Veritas more rugged but the Stanley has a better feel?


----------



## corelz125

Mos have you tried a pre Stanley Siegley? I think everyone starts with a Stanley because there's so many out there. There's so many companies out there but Stanley is the one everybody knows. When it comes down to it though Stanley, Sargent, MF, and Ohio made planes for a lot of companies


----------



## Mosquito

This one is for Kenny


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos have you tried a pre Stanley Siegley? I think everyone starts with a Stanley because there s so many out there. There s so many companies out there but Stanley is the one everybody knows. When it comes down to it though Stanley, Sargent, MF, and Ohio made planes for a lot of companies
> 
> - corelz125


Well… technically No, but sort of. The Siegley's I have, I believe, were made after Stanley bought them, but before Stanley switched them to Bailey style planes (Top). If memory serves me correctly, I think this was the second to last type, before that change (the patent date on the lever cap thumb screw). After that it was just a knurled thumb screw, and then they made the switch I think


----------



## Lazyman

> ... for whatever reason, I tend to twist my left hand CCW *during my stroke*.
> 
> - HokieKen


Ah. That explains a lot. Brain damage from his stroke.


----------



## Mosquito

LOL when I saw you quote that, I thought it was going in a completely different direction lol

"Old habits, eh Kenny?"


----------



## corelz125

That was when Stanley started the SSS Siegleys. How do like the original Siegleys performance?


----------



## Lazyman

LOL, Now that I reread the whole sentence out of context, I see what you mean.


----------



## HokieKen

I see Mos used my 113 to plane a gutter for his and Nathan's minds


----------



## corelz125

> I see Mos used my 113 to plane a gutter for his and Nathan's minds
> 
> - HokieKen


Hahaha


----------



## Ocelot

You know, with all this talk of collecting, I draw attention to my signature line as a warning.

Honestly I would rather be a woodworker than a collector of anything.

I think it's time to shift focus and perhaps even start a thread titled 
Flat boards of your dreams.
And another
Flat tables of your dreams.

-Paul


----------



## 33706

> LOL, sometimes I wish MF had just used Stanley s numbering so I wouldn t have to translate RWE  Millers Falls numbering is easy though, it s the length of the sole in inches. At least close to it.
> 
> My MF10 (4-1/2 size) is definitely my go-to smoother Mos. I don t even know the last time the #3 or 4 size came out of the till. I like my #6 sized plane too and I m not sure why I tend to grab the 5-1/2 size more often for jointing unless it s just the narrower width balances easier on edges. I should probably start forcing myself to use the full gamut of planes I have rather than just reaching for the same 3 or 4 of them all the time. Would probably reduce the amount of time I spend sharpening the irons in my favorites…
> 
> - HokieKen


Kenny, You cleaned up that #10? Did I miss the pics, or haven't you posted some yet?


----------



## RWE

I like the signature line that states "For every tool acquired, another is required". I went from totally power tools to having a pretty good set of hand tools over the last 5 or 6 years. During that period, I spent more time refurbing and sharpening tools than I did on woodworking projects. However, if you start hand tool work, it seems there is always one more tool that would be beneficial to the work.

Somewhere there is a happy medium. It is a hobby for me, so I do what I enjoy. This year, I decided to do a reset and shift my emphasis back to woodwork. I am pursuing decent hand cut dovetails. But to do that, I benefit from learning to sharpen saws and having made my own dovetail saw, from all of the vintage chisels that I refurbed etc. I just completed an improved shooting board where I will utilize the planes to get the boards square. It all comes together. But the tool acquisition and education, history etc. is a great pursuit and lots of fun.

So sign me up for the "Flat boards of your dreams" thread. I am back to majoring on woodworking with a minor degree in tool acquisition.


----------



## HokieKen

Nope PK, both of the planes you sent me are still in the hospital "waiting room"  I already had a #10. Yours is near the bottom of the plane list since I already have one in service and it'll need a new tote and/or knob (can't recall right off) and I'm waiting to stumble into some nice wood for replacement totes. I also still have the #14 you sent me and a type 1 #11 in the waiting room so at least it has company ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Is anyone interested in a Stanley iron for a #8? Not sure of type but it has notched rectangle and "made in USA" 









Looks like it's probably close to full length too. I don't have it in hand yet but it's in the MF 24 I bought yesterday. I don't have a big problem with having a Stanley iron but I found a NOS Millers Falls blade on Ebay for a reasonable price. So if I could send the Stanley along to someone who needs it for about 1/2 the cost of the MF, I'd probably swap them around. $15 shipped reasonable? I'll check it out and send pics once I get the plane to make sure there aren't any surprises not clear in the Ebay pics. I'll even sharpen it up for you if you want ;-)


----------



## Ocelot

Kenny if you don't have some nice wood, who does

For knobs and totes, I would like to propose the non-standard mopane. I bought a few mopane blanks from West Penn and am very enamored with the stuff. Looks like black walnut, but 75% heavier, much harder, doesn't rot and has no allergy or trade restriction issues.


----------



## Mosquito

Hobbies come in all varieties. Some people collect stamps, some people collect insects, some people collect cars… One of my hobbies is I collect tools, and I'm happy with that


----------



## Ocelot

> Is anyone interested in a Stanley iron for a #8? Not sure of type but it has notched rectangle and "made in USA"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like it s probably close to full length too….. $15 shipped reasonable? I ll check it out and send pics once I get the plane to make sure there aren t any surprises not clear in the Ebay pics. I ll even sharpen it up for you if you want ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


That's a great offer! One of my no 8 has a wavy blade. I'll take it!


----------



## Ocelot

Duplicate post deleted


----------



## drsurfrat

Kenny, that one is knows the "BB" logo, made from around 1931 (after sweetharts) to 1948 (before rounded top corners)

Mopane? sounds good …


----------



## HokieKen

Interesting Paul. I'll look into Mopane 

I do have some nice wood but for the last couple of years I've been thinking about replacing all of the totes and knobs on all my Millers Falls planes with matching wood. Some of mine are Cocobolo and some are "hardwood" with a dark stain. They don't match and some are just ugly. But, I'm keeping an eye open for a nice chunk of something that speaks to me and is big enough to do all of my totes and knobs with some leftover for future acquisitions. I was watching for a good piece of Rosewood but lately I've developed such an allergic reaction to the stuff that I think I'm gonna quit using it :-( So I'm leaning to Cocobolo (I know it's a rosewood but for whatever reason, it doesn't affect me) or Ironwood now.


----------



## HokieKen

Blade goes to Ocelot. Now let me hope I can still get the MF blade…


----------



## Ocelot

Thanks. We'll work out payment.

West Penn calls it mopani.
All I've seen for sale are turning blanks, wax coated and presumably green, which is a good thing when you're talking Janka 3390. But volumetric shrinkage is low so there's a chance you can work it green and it won't crack.

I just recommended it based on look and feel in the hand, and wood database. I haven't worked with it yet.


----------



## HokieKen

MF blade is purchased


----------



## BlasterStumps

E. Hahn No. 2


----------



## HokieKen

Lovely Mike! I like the checkering on the tote. I assume the slot in the iron is engaged by the lateral adjuster?


----------



## Notw

> Interesting Paul. I ll look into Mopane
> 
> I do have some nice wood but for the last couple of years I ve been thinking about replacing all of the totes and knobs on all my Millers Falls planes with matching wood. Some of mine are Cocobolo and some are "hardwood" with a dark stain. They don t match and some are just ugly. But, I m keeping an eye open for a nice chunk of something that speaks to me and is big enough to do all of my totes and knobs with some leftover for future acquisitions. I was watching for a good piece of Rosewood but lately I ve developed such an allergic reaction to the stuff that I think I m gonna quit using it :-( So I m leaning to Cocobolo (I know it s a rosewood but for whatever reason, it doesn t affect me) or Ironwood now.
> 
> - HokieKen


I have had a couple of planes I had to replace handles and knobs on and for that I used Walnut with a BLO and wax finish, so I will admit now that the Stanley No. 62 with it's light wood handle and knob looks a little out of place. Maybe I could try sanding wood instead of metal for a while…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here is a pic of the Hahn plane apart. Yes, the pin on the lateral adjuster goes in the slot.












> Lovely Mike! I like the checkering on the tote. I assume the slot in the iron is engaged by the lateral adjuster?
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I think it s time to shift focus and perhaps even start a thread titled
> Flat boards of your dreams.
> 
> - Ocelot


Count me out on that one. With all my cognitive issues, I haven't been truly able to flatten a board in years. In all fairness though, the more that I try the closer I get.


----------



## HokieKen

Cool frog Mike 

Here's one for you Andre! A Millers Falls #7 

..Except the body… that's probably Fulton. And the lever cap and cap iron are milled down from a Stanley #3… OH! - the iron is a Defiance blade. Oh and the knob, not sure where that came from. But the tote looks like something Millers Falls would have made and the frog is painted red! So we may as well call it a Millers Falls, right?

At least the seller was honest in the description ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

"OK, it's a frankenplane for sure so collectors and snobby pros go away. This one's strictly for a common user."

Blunt, but I like it lol


----------



## HokieKen

His price is pretty decent for the plane too. If it only had the MF body I'd have jumped on it.


----------



## rad457

> Cool frog Mike
> 
> Here s one for you Andre! A Millers Falls #7
> 
> ..Except the body… that s probably Fulton. And the lever cap and cap iron are milled down from a Stanley #3… OH! - the iron is a Defiance blade. Oh and the knob, not sure where that came from. But the tote looks like something Millers Falls would have made and the frog is painted red! So we may as well call it a Millers Falls, right?
> 
> At least the seller was honest in the description ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks, but happy with my #407, still looks so cute sitting there on the bench Still waiting for a #514?


----------



## RWE

Hokie: You sir have to deal with fame and all the problems that follow because you sir are "*an influencer*". Based on an earlier post you made, I had a late Santa Claus present arrive today, a Veritas #4/#5 sized PM-V11 iron. I have two hock irons and really like them, so I am interested to see how the PM-V11 compares.

Are you still happy with yours and did you have to touch it up when it arrived or was it good to go?


----------



## Lazyman

I think you mean *enabler*.


----------



## Karda

for a collection to reach its potential it needs a good enabler


----------



## drsurfrat

I have another collection started, and a looking forward to finding those rare pieces that show up so infrequently.

All with cracked or even broken cheeks










O well, you can't see cracks in these reduced pics. So far I have a No 2, No3, No 604 1/3, Bo 608 and a block plane to match!


----------



## drsurfrat

I have another collection started, and a looking forward to finding those rare pieces that show up so infrequently.

All with cracked or even broken cheeks










O well, you can't see cracks in these reduced pics. So far I have a No 2, No3, No 604 1/3, Bo 608 and a block plane to match!


----------



## Karda

nice collection


----------



## RWE

Now I have to start looking for a #2. Nice beginning. I need to get out more I guess, never heard of a 604 1/3.


----------



## HokieKen

> Hokie: You sir have to deal with fame and all the problems that follow because you sir are "*an influencer*". Based on an earlier post you made, I had a late Santa Claus present arrive today, a Veritas #4/#5 sized PM-V11 iron. I have two hock irons and really like them, so I am interested to see how the PM-V11 compares.
> 
> Are you still happy with yours and did you have to touch it up when it arrived or was it good to go?
> 
> - RWE


I touched it up before I used it the first time but, I don't think I really had to. I just like to make sure the bevel angle is consistent with my jig and the edge is square using my sharpening equipment. I am thrilled with it and figure to upgrade some of my oft used bench planes with PM-V11 blades in the future. I think I have sharpened it once and even then, it wasn't necessary, I just had a lot of endgrain to plane on some cutting boards and wanted it keen out of the gate. It flattened both sides of two pretty large cutting boards without breaking a sweat. It takes as keen an edge as O1 or A2 as far as I can tell and holds it at least 3X as long in my estimation.

Since I "influenced" you, if for some reason you don't like it, I'll buy it from you ;-)


----------



## RWE

You've got a deal. Paypal me $150 and it is yours. (Only cost $50 something, so don't let me discourage anyone considering it, a joke).

Thanks for the info. I read everything on the web and particularly the Fine Woodworking test and review. I like the fact that it is more traditional with the top of the iron having angles. Will touch it up and test it tonight.


----------



## bandit571

On that $20 No. 5, T-19…..lots of markings..









With a red STANLEY logo, too









But, not a single crack in the sole..









And…









Iron still needs a bit more work….at least the handles are in good shape…









Might be a good user, for a jack plane?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> for a collection to reach its potential it needs a good enabler
> 
> - Karda


Quotable. Actually, signature line worthy. Nice job, Karda!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> You know, with all this talk of collecting, I draw attention to my signature line as a warning.
> 
> Honestly I would rather be a woodworker than a collector of anything.
> 
> I think it s time to shift focus and perhaps even start a thread titled
> Flat boards of your dreams.
> And another
> Flat tables of your dreams.
> 
> -Paul
> 
> - Ocelot


Not dream worthy for me, sorry. But much luck to you when you do create it! And when I make a flat table, I'll put in in a project post or even in the "Furniture Makers Forum" that I've never posted in previously. In the meantime, I'll continue to enjoy the thrill of the hunt for Stanley's Weird and Wonderful Planes!


----------



## HokieKen

This fella was pretty quick to set up and seems really handy for rabbets. But HOLY S#*! it's an awkward sumbitch to hold!


----------



## theoldfart

Just snagged a 49 finally. I need it to keep the 48 balanced!


----------



## Karda

That's great what's next


----------



## HokieKen

50


----------



## BlasterStumps

Kenny, that's why I put a horn on the front of mine for a second hand hold.


----------



## theoldfart

Nope, no fifty.


----------



## bandit571

$20 Stanley #5,T-19….all spiffied up…









and the front..









and the sole..









And, for some reason, or other…









I seem to have a almost matched pair…only difference?









One is cambered, the newest one is not….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Nope, no fifty.
> 
> - theoldfart


Oh, you must get a fiddy.


----------



## Mosquito

Kev's a Record 405 guy, so he needs an 050


----------



## KentInOttawa

Not a Record No. 050C Improved Combination Plane?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oooh! Stylized wood too!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/383762495108


----------



## donwilwol

I collect hobbies. There is no sense in limiting yourself


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny, that s why I put a horn on the front of mine for a second hand hold.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


How about a pic Mike? I was pondering some kind of knob that screws into the bullnose frog. It's gotta have something though. Between the handle being pitched too far forward with an opening that's too small, the depth adjust lever slicing right into your back hand, and the awkward front end, the thing is dang near unusable for me as-is…


----------



## HokieKen

> Oooh! Stylized wood too!
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/383762495108
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


The one Kent linked is kinda cool looking. Sort of a Buck Rogers design aesthetic. That Ebay one offends me though. I want to unsee it.


----------



## Mosquito

haha Smitty, that one's been floating around ebay for a while (over a year I think)


----------



## HokieKen

> I collect hobbies. There is no sense in limiting yourself
> 
> - Don W


Sig line.


----------



## HokieKen

> Nope, no fifty.
> 
> - theoldfart


No fifty *yet*, no fifty *next*, or no fifty *ever*? Just curious. It's on my "if I run across a really good deal on one" list


----------



## Lazyman

I was at a yard sale and found this manual in a box with some other tools. I think that he bought out storage units that failed to pay their rent.








I dug through every other box on his lawn trying to see if the plane was there somewhere but it wasn't. The guy felt so sorry for me he just gave me the manual.


----------



## bandit571

Hmm…









And the right side..









Set up for a 3/4" wide dado…


----------



## Johnny7

> This fella was pretty quick to set up and seems really handy for rabbets. But HOLY S#*! it's an awkward sumbitch to hold!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


*Consider the Woden model W78*


----------



## Lazyman

The wife picked up an early valentines present for me for $10 at an estate sale today. 
MF 14 C, type 2 I think. 


















A little cleanup and rust removal and it should make a nice user.


----------



## HokieKen

Anybody in this thread interested in a late-model Record 07 with Hock blade and Clifton chipbreaker? It's destined for the 'bay but thought I'd offer it up here first in case somebody likes their planes blue  It's a great plane and was a lifesaver when I built my bench. But I rarely use it and my MF 22 is taking over its seat in the till…













































If anyone is interested, I can send higher res photos. Just PM me your e-mail. I'm thinking $150 shipped in CONUS but open to offers or trades.


----------



## Notw

With the blue it makes me think of the planes on the wall in James Wright's shop (Wood by Wright on youtube)


----------



## theoldfart

That's a nice looking blue plane Kenny.

Now heretical question. I have a 405, 45, 46, and a 55. Why would anyone buy any of the lesser combo planes?


----------



## HokieKen

I also have a Stanley #5 headed for the 'bay. I think it's a type 19 but could be 16. The hardware for the knob and tote are too short, or the wood pieces too long:









And the blade has no markings of any kind:


















Has remnants of initials stamped into one side:









It's still an excellent user though. Served as a scrub for a while then back to a standard jack plane for general use. I have two MF jacks though so this one needs to go. It was one of the first planes I ever bought and it was the first I ever did rust conversion on (phosphoric acid). Then I painted it and lapped the sole. So it was sorta restored but not to the point of being pretty 

$60 shipped CONUS or make me an offer


----------



## HokieKen

> *Consider the Woden model W78*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Johnny7


That's precisely what I was looking for Johnny! Thank you sir


----------



## HokieKen

> The wife picked up an early valentines present for me for $10 at an estate sale today.
> MF 14 C, type 2 I think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A little cleanup and rust removal and it should make a nice user.
> 
> - Lazyman


She really does love you! Is the knob/tote hardware and the depth adjuster knob steel or brass? Is the depth adjuster recessed or solid?

In any case, somebody stuck a Type 5 single-piece lever cap on there. Removes some of the cool-factor but won't affect function ;-)


----------



## drsurfrat

duplicate


----------



## HokieKen

> That's a nice looking blue plane Kenny.
> 
> Now heretical question. I have a 405, 45, 46, and a 55. Why would anyone buy any of the lesser combo planes?
> 
> - theoldfart


Because you don't have one and people sell them ;-)

My interest in it is for how it holds the blade using the skate. Eliminates the fiddling necessary to set the skate flush with the cutter like on the 45/46.


----------



## drsurfrat

> ...Now heretical question. I have a 405, 45, 46, and a 55. Why would anyone buy any of the lesser combo planes?
> - theoldfart


Kevin, here's my heretical answer  I have three 45s, a 46, a 55, and I use my 78 for rabbets and my 50 for 1/4" dadoes/grooves because there is zero setup time. And, well, I'm kinda lazy.


----------



## Lazyman

> She really does love you! Is the knob/tote hardware and the depth adjuster knob steel or brass? Is the depth adjuster recessed or solid?
> 
> In any case, somebody stuck a Type 5 single-piece lever cap on there. Removes some of the cool-factor but won t affect function ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Brass. 
Isn't this a 2 piece lever cap? 









And by recessed adjuster I assume you mean the hollow back? 









Whoever tried to sharpen it the last time must have used a bastard file.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, that is a 2-piece cap. Awesome. For some reason it looked like a single piece in your first pic. And yep, that's the recessed knob. Type 2 it is which is my personal favorite because it has the brass and Cocobolo. Great score for $10. Tell your wife she sucks!


----------



## theoldfart

Good answers. I might do some shopping after the next few purchases show up.


----------



## Mosquito

> Now heretical question. I have a 405, 45, 46, and a 55. Why would anyone buy any of the lesser combo planes?
> 
> - theoldfart


My answer is "because you don't have them" lol

That said, I thought the same, until I bought that Marples M44 (044)... for just a groove, it's kind of nice, a little smaller, little lighter



> Kevin, here s my heretical answer  I have three 45s, a 46, a 55, and I use my 78 for rabbets and my 50 for 1/4" dadoes/grooves because there is zero setup time. And, well, I m kinda lazy.
> 
> - drsurfrat


I don't think I want to go down that road  I've got a few more than three 45's, and quite a few other planes that accomplish the same


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Now heretical question. I have a 405, 45, 46, and a 55. Why would anyone buy any of the lesser combo planes?
> 
> - theoldfart


My answer is, you already have lesser planes, so what's one more? The No. 444 is at the top of the food chain.


----------



## HokieKen

> Now heretical question. I have a 405, 45, 46, and a 55. Why would anyone buy any of the lesser combo planes?
> 
> - theoldfart
> 
> My answer is, you already have lesser planes, so what s one more? The No. 444 is at the top of the food chain.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Well said Smitty. And actually, of the four you listed Kev, three of them must be, by definition, lesser combo planes. So you're already well on your way to a not-a-collection of "lesser" planes


----------



## Mosquito

Hold up, Kevin, you have a Fales patent… does that not count?


----------



## HokieKen

It doesn't have a number Mos so he doesn't have to include it. That's a little known not-a-collector's loophole.


----------



## theoldfart

Yup, got a Fales. Also have an M Copeland!


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> Whoever tried to sharpen it the last time must have used a bastard file.
> 
> - Lazyman


You sure it's ever been sharpened? Just looking at your pics, it looks to be full length or at least dang close to it. The rough bevel could just be the original factory grind. The plane doesn't look unused but, that could all be corrosion from sitting forgotten in a barn somewhere for the last 100 years


----------



## BlasterStumps

Late to the party. Sorry. Kenny, here is the 78 style plane with the horn mounted.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice Mike  That would work well too. I'll throw yours and the Woden that Johnny7 posted into my brain together and let them rattle around a bit and see what shakes out.


----------



## RWE

I don't do enough Shooting Board work to justify the expense of a shooting plane. All of this talk about the horn on the 78 and such made me wonder if anyone has a picture of conventional Jack or Smoother with a "horn" attached to the side or a 45 degree tote tweaked into the tote connection. I seem to remember having seen that, but last night on YouTube, could not find any examples.

I want a better grip on a Jack or Smoother that I will dedicate to be a shooting plane. Help. Need pictures if you have one.

I figure I can conjure up something, but a picture is worth a thousand words as they say.


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## HokieKen

I'm figuring on something like this for my LAJ if I ever get my shooting board made RWE…


----------



## HokieKen

Don's is certainly nicer if you're dedicating a plane to the board. My LAJ will do double duty though so I want something I can slip on and off easily.


----------



## bandit571

No.7 with a fence….


















Went and changed out to thumbscrews..









Plane is a Stanley No. 7c, Type 9. Previous Owner had drilled and tapped two holes for such a fence…..


----------



## RWE

Thanks, some rasp, spokeshave and sanding work. I appreciate the pictures.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thumbscrews definitely an aesthetic improvement over n&bs!


----------



## drsurfrat

> I don t do enough Shooting Board work to justify the expense of a shooting plane. All of this talk about the horn on the 78 and such made me wonder if anyone has a picture of conventional Jack or Smoother with a "horn" attached to the side or a 45 degree tote tweaked into the tote connection. I seem to remember having seen that, but last night on YouTube, could not find any examples.
> - RWE


The Stanley No 51 (chute/shoot plane, not spokeshave) and the new L-N have angled totes:
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/products/no-51-shoot-board-plane-


----------



## Ocelot

Ok


----------



## RWE

Don W.

I have been studying the pictures. It looks like you have a friction fit on the shoulder of the plane with the frog acting as the major stop for the wooden handle.

Did you put the front piece of wood in just to balance out the look or were you trying to add heft/weight to the plane?


----------



## donwilwol

> Don W.
> 
> I have been studying the pictures. It looks like you have a friction fit on the shoulder of the plane with the frog acting as the major stop for the wooden handle.
> 
> Did you put the front piece of wood in just to balance out the look or were you trying to add heft/weight to the plane?
> 
> - RWE


The front piece was just for looks. It was just a work as I went with no real plans.

It was friction fit. I don't think I intentionally made the frog a stop, but maybe?

I did this first because the bolts where badly stripped, so it was this or part it out. I sold it twice. The first customer said it worked great but thought it was to heavy. I personally liked the way it worked, I just don't use a shooting board very often.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Oooh! Stylized wood too!
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/383762495108
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop
> 
> The one Kent linked is kinda cool looking. Sort of a Buck Rogers design aesthetic. That Ebay one offends me though. I want to unsee it.
> 
> - HokieKen


Me too! Ew!



> I collect hobbies. There is no sense in limiting yourself
> 
> - Don W
> 
> Sig line.
> 
> - HokieKen


I noticed that. 8-D










I have the front knob from my WS Tools A78 (the daddy of your W78) on my Record 778 (your W78's kid) and it makes a huge difference. I really like it.


----------



## DanKrager

What do you think of the background color of this label? It was an estimate from an original box picture on Jiim Bode's page. (can't copy link URL) and based on an image I think I got from this thread. ????










Anyway, I couldn't find the repository for lStanley labels, so I did this vector image myself. If there isn't one already in the repository I'll put it there if I can and someone can show me where.

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

I have a public google drive folder with repro labels for some combination planes Dan. If you send me your file(s) via email, I'll stick it in with those. I'll pm you my email now.


----------



## Mosquito

the green seems a little bright to me, but it looks good, nice work Dan


----------



## HokieKen

I like it Smitty! I gave it a quick brush on a scotchbrite wheel and sharpened it up just to see if I liked it enough to do a full cleaning and fix the mouth piece which sits noticeably high on one side. I think I will. It may be the most comfortable of all block plane grips for me


----------



## HokieKen

This one had some stubborn paint splatter so it just got sand blasted. So now it'll get a fresh coat of paint. I think I'll give sansoo's enamel baking a try with this one since it'll fit in my shop toaster oven.


----------



## Lazyman

> ...
> 
> Whoever tried to sharpen it the last time must have used a bastard file.
> 
> - Lazyman
> 
> You sure it s ever been sharpened? Just looking at your pics, it looks to be full length or at least dang close to it. The rough bevel could just be the original factory grind. The plane doesn t look unused but, that could all be corrosion from sitting forgotten in a barn somewhere for the last 100 years
> 
> - HokieKen


Not a factory grind. Too wavy and convex and the shiniest part of the whole plane. I would guess that someone just ran a narrow, coarse stone over it and upon closer inspection it actually is fairly sharp all things considered. Just a really ugly edge. Without even trying to touch up the edge…









This is going to be a sweet user once I get it cleaned up and sharp.


----------



## drsurfrat

If you want to geek nerdy, Stanley had two very different greens. The early stuff was a bright lime, and the labels did not have the well-known corner notches. Later (1905-1955) it was dark green until they went to the modern yellow and black. Like everything Staley, there are at least 15 "types" of labels

I found approximate ranges in RGB hex, RGB 255 and CMYK

lime: 
RGBhex: A8-AF / CD-D0 / 6D-75 equals [RGB255] 169-175 / 205-208 / 109-117 equals CYMK 29-37 / 0-2 / 72-75 / 0

dark green:
RGBhex 15-1F / 37-3B / 24-27 equals [RGB255] 21-31 / 55-59 / 36-39 equals CMYK 78-82 / 48-25 / 78-85 / 59-62


----------



## drsurfrat

> This one had some stubborn paint splatter so it just got sand blasted. So now it'll get a fresh coat of paint. I think I'll give sansoo's enamel baking a try with this one since it'll fit in my shop toaster oven.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


Is that a low angle Stanley? From what little I can see, it has very specific features. It was made from 1898-1901. Do you have all the parts? If the depth adjuster has the 5 holes in the casting that narrows it down further…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dan, I captured this label from an ebay listing recently…


----------



## HokieKen

> Is that a low angle Stanley? From what little I can see, it has very specific features. It was made from 1898-1901. Do you have all the parts? If the depth adjuster has the 5 holes in the casting that narrows it down further…
> 
> - drsurfrat


Who is this Stanley of whom you speak? That is a Millers Falls 56 ;-) It's a 60-1/2 equivalent. Has the knurled depth adjuster which is all MF ever had until they switched to a plastic wheel in the 50s. So between 1929 and 195something it was made.

The first knuckle cap I showed is also a Millers Falls. A #36 which is a 18 equivalent.

I tend to buy the Millers Falls version of planes when there is one if anyone hadn't noticed;-)


----------



## DanKrager

Got the copy paste working. Here is the link to the 444 label I was getting color from.

Thanks for the nerd info, drsurfrat The lime color is very very bright and the beige(ish) letters a barely visible. Were the letter strokes a different color, like black?

DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Question: Wouldn't bluing fluid be a good finish for user planes that one wants to keep rust free? Perhaps the blades? Asking for a friend.

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

Yep it would Dan. As long as your friend doesn't mind the look. You also have to strip any old plating or paint completely before blueing.


----------



## DanKrager

Ah, that would be the kicker. My friend's planes do have some spotty plating…. Thanks for the heads up. Perhaps the shiny wax will be the defense of choice, if I can find where to get it. But the blades would look pretty sharp with the black color "bluing".

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

Your friend could try the bluing on the parts with leftover plating Dan. But it's basically a surface oxide treatment so I don't think it'll have any affect on the plated spots.

I use plain old paste wax on cast iron and steel parts for rust protection. I just put it on with an old toothbrush and leave it. I don't buff it out umless it's somewhere visible that I want shiny.


----------



## HokieKen

S#{+. I'm watching the news and they just did a story on this year being the year of the Cicadas. I'll probably have earbuds in from May to October. The noise is kinda soothing when there's a few off in the distance. Millions of them in every tree is kinda like sleeping with a running lawnmower though.


----------



## drsurfrat

> Thanks for the nerd info, drsurfrat The lime color is very very bright and the beige(ish) letters a barely visible. Were the letter strokes a different color, like black?
> DanK
> - Dan Krager


Yes it was black, much better than beige  The pic you has was, I think - adjusted for brightness for the other parts. Oddly enough, I have seem aging labels go both lighter and darker.









taken form Patrick Leach's Blood and Gore


----------



## HokieKen

I added Dan's 444 label to my folder with other Stanley reproduction labels here.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Got the copy paste working. Here is the link to the 444 label I was getting color from.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


I notice that listing says the label on the box is a copy. So color there is not necessarily accurate. Love the logo you created, Dan!


----------



## Lazyman

> Ah, that would be the kicker. My friend s planes do have some spotty plating…. Thanks for the heads up. *Perhaps the shiny wax will be the defense of choice*, if I can find where to get it. But the blades would look pretty sharp with the black color "bluing".
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


If you are talking about the Rub 'N Buff wax I am currently experimenting with on my 46, they also have a black version that might simulate Japaning or bluing though I have never tried the black one.


----------



## HokieKen

My Millers Falls Heft and Hubris is out for delivery. I'm positively giddy )


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Kenny, I'm excited for you lol

When I got the KK8 from Sansoo, I opened it up in my office, and looked at my old crappy press board desk, and gave the front edge of my desk an evaluating eye, but decided it would be a bad idea to give the KK8 a test run there lol


----------



## bandit571

hmmm..








SW era…








Vitamin B?









Shop work….just sitting down on the job….









Multi-task room….









Stanley Tools label….









Router Box, with label….









Lid opened….


----------



## HokieKen

That's funny. When I sharpened up my knuckle cap block plane last night, I didn't have any wood sitting around. So I ran it across the front edge of my bench real quick. It was set really shallow so no harm but I just had to cut SOMETHING with it right then


----------



## HokieKen

That'll do nicely Bandit )


----------



## rad457

Thought I saw me a Man's Beer, an sure I seen that guy on a poster at the Post Office


----------



## bandit571

LOL….


----------



## Pimzedd

Ran into this little plane at an estate sale this morning. Wasn't sure what it was exactly but figured I better buy it for that price.

Turns out it is a Sargent 1508 Ladybug shoulder/rabbet plane, the 3/4 in. wide model. Kind of rare. Think I'll keep it and add it to my small collection.


----------



## RWE

That Sargent is a beauty. Congratulations.


----------



## Mosquito

that's pretty neat Bill


----------



## theoldfart

Looks like it can be a bullnose as well. Read about them, first one I've seen. Very fortunate find, congrats.


----------



## DonBroussard

Nice one, Bill. It would have followed me home too.


----------



## Pimzedd

You are correct OF. May have to give it a run against my Stanley N0. 90.


----------



## bandit571

Boards needed shot, today…









Stanley No. 9-1/2 seemed to get it done…


----------



## corelz125

You stole that thing Bill at that price


----------



## HokieKen

Scoot over junior. There's a big dog moving in!


----------



## donwilwol

You paid $40 for a Sargent 1508 Ladybug!!! That's a BIG YOU SUCK!!! I'm beyond jealous.


----------



## theoldfart

Actually Don, $40 is immoral! He should be ashamed. Maybe to sooth his conscience he should send it to you, it would be a noble gesture.


----------



## donwilwol

> Actually Don, $40 is immoral! He should be ashamed. Maybe to sooth his conscience he should send it to you, it would be a noble gesture.
> 
> - theoldfart


Well…....I could probably forgive him then and we would all feel better all the way around.


----------



## theoldfart




----------



## Pimzedd

I will admit that I searched the internet while looking at it. Saw one on Jim Bode's site that he was asking $450 for. I almost ran to the checkout.


----------



## rad457

Thought for some reason to just check the back of a PMV-11 iron, had 3 to have a edge put on with a 8000 W.S.
Ran them over a 1000 W.S. first and was surprised that one of the 2" actually had a slight hollow?
Pulled 6 more irons and even the ones in the DX60 and apron plane, all of them were dead flat.
The less than perfect 2" iron was purchased in the last 2 months.








The first two irons had less than a minute of work done on them while the 3rd one about 5 or 6 minutes.


----------



## Mosquito

all things considered, 5 or 6 minutes isn't too bad either lol


----------



## RWE

Thanks for sharing. I just got a 2 inch PMV-11 and have not worked on it. I will check it for flat and if it is off, I will report back.


----------



## HokieKen

Just send me that thing Andre. There's no sense on you putting up with that kind of crap!


----------



## HokieKen

FWIW, it would take me a lifetime to get back to that hollow part with that PM-V11 I think.


----------



## RWE

I just flattened the back with Extra Fine (1200 mesh?) Duosharp DMT diamond. The cutting edge was flat for a 1/4 of an inch almost immediately. Worked it for about 2 minutes and had some ever so slight concave in the middle, but not dished or much out. Looked good. This was a 2 inch PMV-11.

Looked like your third picture but the center was almost polished, just a faint color change. Flat on cutting edge and sides.

Like Hokie, I'll be dead before I get to the slight dishing.


----------



## rad457

> Just send me that thing Andre. There's no sense on you putting up with that kind of crap!
> 
> - HokieKen


Got a 2 #5 Winchester or a #9 M.F.s plane that have been waiting, and 2 more #5 Baileys?
The 1 5/8" iron not going to work for the #407 unless I can find a longer screw for the chip breaker, guess I have to save it for when I find that #7 M.F.s ?
I only polish the first 1/4" to 1/2", definitely a lot different than A 2 !


----------



## HokieKen

I can "find" you a longer chipbreaker screw if it's worth the shipping cost to you Andre.


----------



## HokieKen

I pullled the Stanley iron (that's bound for Ocelot) out of that MFH&H (Millers Falls Heft and Hubris). I told Paul that I'd sharpen it up for him before I sent it along. Nathan said his must have been "sharpened with a bastard file" the other day. Well, I think somebody honed this one with a cold chisel. I didn't think to take a before picture but you can see the remnants of the old bevel behind the one I ground in. You can also see just how off square it was. 









Makes me wonder just how many of these old planes we buy were originally bought new by weekend warriors like most of us but then they never got them to perform because they simply didn't have sharp irons? Which got me to thinking that without the internet, how many of us may have also given up on hand planes because we didn't know how to sharpen/fettle and don't know anyone personally who could show us? Lots of bulls#^! floating around and lots of just downright evil stuff on the www but, it's also a tremendous resource. Honestly, I'd say 80% of my "know how" when it comes to hand tools is a direct result of being able to find it online. The other 20% is from F'ing up enough that I eventually stumbled on the right way ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

Agreed Kenny, the tricky thing is navigating the minefield of useless or worse crap out there too lol

Though there would still be books and magazines I'm sure, just takes longer lol


----------



## Notw

Mos, what are these books and magazines you speak of…are you suggesting…reading one of them???


----------



## HokieKen

I've tried books and magazines but I can never get the text to scroll. I've tried a mouse and a stylus.


----------



## Lazyman

You need to work on your picture taking Kenny. If we can't see your reflection in the new shiny edge we don't believe it is your work.

The biggest problem with books is that I can't get the pinch/unpinch zoom to work on the pictures. (I hate to admit I have actually caught myself doing that before.) I also hate that the radio in the car doesn't have the 10 second rewind or pause like my cable box DVR.


----------



## Notw

I agree Nathan, why don't we have rewind on car radios yet?


----------



## Lazyman

The pause is needed too. It's hard to listen to the radio, answer a text, ignore the wife and drive at the same time.


----------



## controlfreak

Why is it that I can always hear the wife say "what did I just say?"


----------



## HokieKen

My wife has never said that CF. I don't think she has at least…


----------



## HokieKen

> You need to work on your picture taking Kenny. If we can t see your reflection in the new shiny edge we don t believe it is your work.
> 
> - Lazyman


I figured there was enough ugly on that blade with the old bevel. Didn't want to compound it…


----------



## Mosquito

> I agree Nathan, why don t we have rewind on car radios yet?
> 
> - Notw


Mine does lol

And it's just a 2017 Subaru Outback, nothing terribly special


----------



## rad457

Only rewind I get is when the Wife repeats her self for the 2nd or 3rd time at slightly higher volumes An she is always asking if I'm wearing my hearing aids?

Kenny. reminds me of the NOS #07 blade I bought. angle/skew out by almost an 1/8", guess I really should work on that some day, think I can modify the stock screw, it appears to have a spacer ring at the base of the threads, if not just throw one into the parcel for with my Birthday present 
Did touch up the original blade yesterday in my sharpening frenzy! Hard to believe I spent almost 6 hours working on plane blades (Well couple of breaks included)


----------



## corelz125

There's a rewind on satellite radio in the car with the HD radios found that by accident.


----------



## Lazyman

> I agree Nathan, why don t we have rewind on car radios yet?
> 
> - Notw
> 
> Mine does lol
> 
> And it s just a 2017 Subaru Outback, nothing terribly special
> 
> - Mosquito


Odd. I wonder why my 2002 Honda Odyssey doesn't have it. It can fit a couple of full 4×8 sheet of plywood and a stack of 10' boards in the back though, which is the only reason I still have it.


----------



## Mosquito

haha, I wish my Outback could fit 4' wide, even if I could buy 4'x4' sheet goods it would be nice. I can fit 6' boards behind the front seats with the middle seats folded flat, and can fit 8' boards with the front passenger seat flat, but can only get about 40" wide sheet goods through the rear hatch

But, that's why I still have a trailer lol


----------



## Lazyman

I just wish they had made it so I could put some 5×5 BB in there. The rear hatch on the old Odyssey is just slightly too small to get a 5×5 sheet in diagonally. If I had a place to park a trailer, I probably wouldn't have the van anymore.


----------



## HokieKen

I can fit most anything in my truck


----------



## DanKrager

OK. Wouldn't it be nice to put a "rerun" device on a HPOYD so you take a successful stroke and then do the reruns? Sheesh….let's get practical here! LOL!

DanK


----------



## Karda

my talks to me like. I figure if she doesn't me to hear her it must not be important I don't have a hearing problem then gets mad when I ask her to repeat herself


----------



## rad457

Best test to see if she actually listens to you is call her by her Sisters name some night in Bed


----------



## HokieKen

If she doesn't hear that, call her by YOUR sister's name. I guarantee she'll hear that one.


----------



## bandit571

V.O.E.


> ?


??


----------



## Peteybadboy

I am looking for some advice and info on this plane. It was a give 30+ years ago. I have the blade for the opposite direction plane but not the plane body.

N.E. Toolworks Groton Ct.


----------



## Peteybadboy




----------



## Peteybadboy

What is it? Looks like crown molding profile. Maybe a shaker panel raising plane?

It is a plane I do not use.


----------



## HokieKen

It's a plane I wouldn't use too Petey. Looks to me like some sort of molding plane but that's about all I have to offer. Looks like an awful big plane with a deep profile though. I bet it took a manly man to push that through some Oak!


----------



## Peteybadboy

What is it? Looks like crown molding profile.

It is a plane I do not use.

So the plane was made by Leon E. Robbins Crown Plane Co. in the 80s or 90s. N.E. Toolworks was a reseller. He sold the business Jim, White & son. They still make planes under Crown Plane co Bath Maine.

I do believe it is a panel raising plane. (That plane is still being made) It has nice tiger Mable.


----------



## Lazyman

Question on my MF 14C cleanup…
Did they ever put some sort of coating on the sides? I thought this was just rust but it almost looks like some sort of rust colored finish. After a basic cleaning with simple green, it's smooth and almost shiny and has no pitting at all. It's doesn't really have any thickness like paint or Japanning. More like someone wiped some stain on it or something. Before strip it bare metal, I though I'd check with the local experts. 


















The other side doesn't look like rust either but it's not as smooth.


----------



## HokieKen

Pure patina Nathan. It's likely some sort of oxide that's just darkened over the years. The sole would probably look the same if it hadn't been used.


----------



## drsurfrat

I've also had what I think is oil, congeal and act like a layer of finish, though usually not that evenly. Won't come off with less than steel wool, either.


----------



## theoldfart

Try using a single edge razor blade. Hold it like a scrapper with a small bow. With a steady hand you should be able to get the heavier oxidation off and not scratch.


----------



## donwilwol

> Try using a single edge razor blade. Hold it like a scrapper with a small bow. With a steady hand you should be able to get the heavier oxidation off and not scratch.
> 
> - theoldfart


Good advice


----------



## donwilwol

> Try using a single edge razor blade. Hold it like a scrapper with a small bow. With a steady hand you should be able to get the heavier oxidation off and not scratch.
> 
> - theoldfart


Good advice


----------



## donwilwol

> What is it? Looks like crown molding profile.
> 
> It is a plane I do not use.
> 
> So the plane was made by Leon E. Robbins Crown Plane Co. in the 80s or 90s. N.E. Toolworks was a reseller. He sold the business Jim, White & son. They still make planes under Crown Plane co Bath Maine.
> 
> I do believe it is a panel raising plane. (That plane is still being made) It has nice tiger Mable.
> 
> - Peteybadboy


My guess would be a panel raiser to.


----------



## theoldfart

The skew is appropriate to a panel raiser. Nice plane.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm a scotchbrite guy for surfaces like that. Lube it with a lil WD40 and scrub away. Or if you're lazy like me, put a scrotchbrite belt on your belt grinder.


----------



## theoldfart

Another want list item gotten. I have it's big brother, 48.


----------



## corelz125

Complete 45 in the original box is in the facebook group today. It's up to $300


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…









Working on it…








Work-in-Progress?


----------



## Ocelot

Ken,

Got out of bed, got out the laptop … can't do much on the phone.

You did about what I would have done Ken. There's no need to grind it all the way across.

You can't sharpen these with a bastard file 'cause the file is not hard enough. I suppose it was a power grinder of some kind that made that previous mess.

Don't bother with hammering it flat. It'll be fine.

-Paul


> I pullled the Stanley iron (that s bound for Ocelot) out of that MFH&H (Millers Falls Heft and Hubris). I told Paul that I d sharpen it up for him before I sent it along. Nathan said his must have been "sharpened with a bastard file" the other day. Well, I think somebody honed this one with a cold chisel. I didn t think to take a before picture but you can see the remnants of the old bevel behind the one I ground in. You can also see just how off square it was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## Lazyman

Murphy sucks! I was cleaning the rust off the screws for my MF 14C and I dropped one of the 2 screws that holds the frog down. I think that the guy that was looking over my wife's shoulder drooling over the plane when she bought it may have put a hex on it. I heard the screw hit something but didn't see what direction it bounced. After 2 hours of crawling around on the floor and sweeping with a magnet, I think that it must have opened a worm hole and bounced through it so let me know if the worm hole opened up in one of your shops and the screw appears. It is NOT finders-keepers. Just throw it back through the worm hole.

Today will be fun as I move tools and benches around and vacuum every inch until it shows up. I've emptied the cyclone bucket and attached some really strong neodymium magnets to the attachment on the end of hose. It already looks looks like a hurricane hit out there after the first couple of hours of looking. §

On a positive note, the plane body looks great. Most of the Japanning is intact, and the sole was nice and flat so didn't need any work other than rust removal with only minor pitting. ☻


----------



## RWE

Hilarious. I looked for the screw that mates the plane iron to the chip breaker once for a week. 6 months later I found it. Good luck. If it materializes in my shop, I will send it back.


----------



## HokieKen

LOL. That sucks Nathan. I have a spare I can send you. You can send it back when you inevitably find yours on the same day the mailman drops it off.

And FYI, Millers Falls never japanned. That's enamel.


----------



## Lazyman

Thanks. I will let you know later if I need a loaner, Kenny.


----------



## donwilwol

I put my bow tillering tree in my bench vise. I had a small chain repair link to connect the bow string to the pull rope. One day removing the bow from the tiller it fell off. After what seemed like several day looking for the darn thing I went and dug up a S hook. Shortly latter I did the same thing. I now have 2 connectors in the black hole right below my tillering tree. It's concrete floor and nothing around it. (Except an invisible black hole)

If I ever fell through that black hole ( which seems to move around) I could bring back a truck load of small parts.


----------



## HokieKen

I lost a brand new tip for my soldering iron in my shop in 2012 within 5 minutes of opening the amazon package it came in. I'm still looking for it. If it was just the tip, it would be easy to accept its disappearance but it was in a sealed plastic bag.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> If I ever fell through that black hole ( which seems to move around) I could bring back a truck load of small parts.
> 
> - Don W


Yes. But the one screw you needed at the time, wouldn't be in the truck. Black holes are spiteful.


----------



## HokieKen

> Another want list item gotten. I have it's big brother, 48.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


Nice Score Kev  Users or just scratchin' an itch? Those only work on stock of one thickness IIRC?


----------



## Lazyman

It is better when you can blame someone else. A few years ago I dropped the arbor nut from my table saw. After about an hour of looking, I finally stepped on it in plain site. It had landed on a spot of black spray paint over spray from when my wife had painted something without putting some paper down first back when it was still a garage and not a shop. I was annoyed when she originally did it and I was a little annoyed with her all over again that day.


----------



## donwilwol

It's especially annoying when it's a screw you really need, so you hop in your truck and make a special trip to home depot, which is about an hour round trip for me, walk in, walk up to the bench, and there is the old part, laying right in the open. The sun seems to be shining on it like a spot light, and you can hear the gods actually laughing out loud.


----------



## theoldfart

Users Kenny. They can be used on wider stock, the T&G is just not centered.

Don. I keep a mini mag style flashlight on the bench for that style hunting.


----------



## bandit571

Twins?









About 40+ years apart…..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Murphy sucks! I was cleaning the rust off the screws for my MF 14C and I dropped one of the 2 screws that holds the frog down. I heard the screw hit something but didn t see what direction it bounced. After 2 hours of crawling around on the floor and sweeping with a magnet, I think that it must have opened a worm hole and bounced through it…
> 
> - Lazyman


And it's hanging out with all your missing socks.


----------



## Mosquito

that's actually a problem I don't have… I can't remember the last time I lost a sock (unless I lose whole pairs lol). I do seem to misplace chunks of the socks, right around the ball of my foot every few years though…

Wife, on the other hand, loses her socks almost constantly doing laundry lol


----------



## ac0rn

I too use a flashlight to cast a shadow of the small missing parts or pill that makes it to the floor. As for the socks, they conspire to escape through the dryer venting.


----------



## rad457

For me it's them little springs in the retractable pens, at least I have spare parts and refills
Socks, laundry? I just go to the dresser and it always seems to be full?


----------



## KentInOttawa

I painted my shop floor white. Everything shows up on it except that small piece of hardware that I just dropped. There's a magnetic sweeper for that. Sometimes I even find stuff.


----------



## Lazyman

Found it! The screw had bounced into a box of small cutoffs that was sitting nearby that was waiting for me to sort and cull all of those small pieces you later wonder " why the hell did I save that?". Probably the closest thing in my shop to an actual black hole. Funny thing is there were a bunch of other screws in there from a recent incident where I dumped a bin full of screws and such off the bench. Must have been a screw poltergeist.

Now it's going to a take the rest of the day to get the shop back to normal.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Lost screws?

hmm, I lost the screws attaching my brain a long time ago!

Have a simple solution:
Look around for screw for about min, cussing out the little gremlin that stole it. Then I leave the shop, loudly saying "time to shoot that dam gremlin, getting my gun" as I leave shop for couple minutes. Most of time I return and the gremlin has placed the screw in middle of floor a couple feet behind where I was looking. Occasionally he tries to make it look random and will put up against the leg of my bench, or caster wheel on tool base; but the screw is almost always visible as I walk out of garage door to avoid any further anger looking for it. 
My wife tells me; it was a change in perspective that finds the screw? 
But I know the Gremlin is afraid of guns. 
Anytime I open box of ammo in garage, he is always tilting the surface to roll as many shells as possible off the bench/table onto floor, so he can hide them.

Death to all shop Gremlins!!


----------



## donwilwol

> But I know the Gremlin is afraid of guns.
> 
> 
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


Well, they are either not afraid of bow and arrow or they know how bad of a shot I am.


----------



## theoldfart

^flagged and an exorcism will be performed!


----------



## HokieKen

Before:


















After:


















Kenny likeee


----------



## HokieKen

Andre, here's a Millers Falls rarity and it's actually already north of the border for ya ;-)


----------



## rad457

> Andre, here's a Millers Falls rarity and it's actually already north of the border for ya ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Well if I build another wall cabinet, perhaps, put beside the #113? Looks to be missing the sole plate, wonder how much rust was removed from the base?
LOL! still hoping to sneak the #62 into the shop before the Wifey finds out (and the #98 & #99) 
Almost got a winchester #4 and missed out on a #46 Need to spend more time in the shop, less on Fee-Bay?


----------



## corelz125

Those MF scrapers dont come up very often.


----------



## bandit571

These don't always work out..









Needed a chop from a chisel..however, there are better planes..









When going across the grain…









Cleaning up a glue joint…see IF you can find it…









This wasn't too bad to do…..Jack plane is a Sargent VBM No. 414c…..









Also used a Stanley No. 9-1/2…..to help level some edges…

Was a busy morning..









Busy, busy, busy…..


----------



## rad457

Curious, whats the shipping to south of the border, $24.00 CAN. to get it out West.
Appears to be a #65 that's missing the rosewood sole plate? On my watch list


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, #65 and it's $28 CAN shipping for me here in VA.


----------



## rad457

> Yep, #65 and it's $28 CAN shipping for me here in VA.
> 
> - HokieKen


That's not to bad, Looking at a M.F.s #11 in California, they want $42.00 U.S.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Andre, have you been in Curiosity Inc. there in Edmonton? Sometimes he picks up old tools.


----------



## HokieKen

$42 for a #11 is a steal


----------



## donwilwol

Couldn't help snapping this shot


----------



## corelz125

Interesting lever cap Don who made that?


----------



## donwilwol

> Interesting lever cap Don who made that?
> 
> - corelz125


Sargent


----------



## donwilwol

> Interesting lever cap Don who made that?
> 
> - corelz125


Sargent


----------



## rad457

> $42 for a #11 is a steal
> 
> - HokieKen


That's the shipping to me!


----------



## HokieKen

Ah, in that case, it's probably the same one I'm watching ;-) It's already bid higher than I'd spend on it though so it's all yours.


----------



## Lazyman

The MF 14C refurb is complete



















Before pictures here and here.


----------



## bandit571

Guess I had better go and hide my Millers Falls No. 11….type 2…..


----------



## rad457

> Guess I had better go and hide my Millers Falls No. 11….type 2…..
> 
> - bandit571


Unless you are interested in selling it I already have a Stanley #5 1/4, who knows what type, newer but with a 
PMV-11 iron. That Darn Kenny is such an Enabler!
Anybody know if a L.N. #62 iron will work in a Stanley#62, they look the same?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> !
> Anybody know if a L.N. #62 iron will work in a Stanley#62, they look the same?
> 
> - Andre


Yes.

See comment No. 63.


----------



## rad457

> !
> Anybody know if a L.N. #62 iron will work in a Stanley#62, they look the same?
> 
> - Andre
> 
> Yes.
> 
> See comment No. 63.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Thanks, good to know, guess I'm going to be makin me a Hotdog, even have some nice Walnut for the project
1st reference was in comment #9 I do believe, good read anyways!


----------



## HokieKen

The #14 looks great Nathan!

Andre, I have a #11 but it's a type 1 with a brazed cheek so it's not an ideal user. So if I stumble on a type 2/3 at a really good price, I'll pick it up. Otherwise, I'm good with the one I have 

Smitty - was that LN iron one from a LN 62 or was it a LN replacement for a Stanley 62? I ask because when I went researching vintage 62s a while back, I found information that said LN used to make replacements for Stanleys but stopped selling them several years ago. If you look at the LN 62 blades on their website, they don't look like the one you bought for yours back in 2012.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

PN is on the pictures. 1-BL-ST-62 vs. the current out of stock model 1-BL-62

Suggest a call to Nielsen, and ask if they're still making the Stanley replacement.


----------



## Lazyman

Thanks Kenny.

BTW, I am really loving these cheap bristle disks for cleaning off any stubborn rust. I cannot really tell any difference between the supposedly different grits (color coded) but they are much more gentle than the brass wire ones and still gets the rust off. Wire ones are better for the getting the rust out of screw threads but for everything else they really work well. They are also more gentle on your fingers when working on small parts. They actually seem to last longer than the wire ones and when they do finally fail, I don't wind up with little pieces of wire embedded in my shirt.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice Nathan. I don't have any of those type wheels for my dremel. I'll have to pick some up.

I've been using this scotchbrite disk on my Worksharp to clean rust off and it works a trick. I did pretty much the whole block plane I posted yesterday with just the Worksharp and a buffing wheel on my bench grinder.


----------



## Lazyman

I saw a Scotch-brite surface conditioning belt for a belt grinder a while back that would be handy too.


----------



## Mosquito

Speaking of worksharp, Kenny, what do you use in yours for sharpening? I saw that WoodturnersWonders has diamond discs for the worksharp (80/180, 350/600, 800/1200). It actually tempted me to get a worksharp, but not sure I want to drop $350 all at once, and had been hearing some grumblings that a lot of the more useful accessories for the Worksharp have been discontinued


----------



## HokieKen

> I saw a Scotch-brite surface conditioning belt for a belt grinder a while back that would be handy too.
> 
> - Lazyman


I have that too. It really depends on what you're working on. The belt grinder tends to grab small parts sometimes which is what prompted me to try out the WS disk. They both get the job done well, just depends on what you're working on.


----------



## bandit571

Might try out this WEN Wet Wheel I have in the shop…sometime. Might be a bit messy? Hard part will be getting the platten at the right angle to the dangle…...

I did have a #11, T-1….but, i seem to recall selling it to Don Yoda…a few years ago….

Sitting by my mailbox (watching from INSIDE the house) for both a depth stop and the long rods for that T-3 #45 to arrive..today. About 8" of that white crap on the ground, right now…..sounds like a good time to Hibernate? Or, at least hide out IN the shop….even on a Monday.


----------



## HokieKen

> Speaking of worksharp, Kenny, what do you use in yours for sharpening? I saw that WoodturnersWonders has diamond discs for the worksharp (80/180, 350/600, 800/1200). It actually tempted me to get a worksharp, but not sure I want to drop $350 all at once, and had been hearing some grumblings that a lot of the more useful accessories for the Worksharp have been discontinued
> 
> - Mosquito


I have considered those but I've been happy with the abrasives on the glass platens. And mine came with several platens when I bought it used. The CBN is probably a cheaper long term solution but, I've always got good results with the Norton abrasive disks and they last long enough that I don't feel like I'm constantly buying them. I also have the ultra-fine micro-mesh disks for polishing stuff out when I want a really fine edge.

When WS discontinued the wide blade attachment, I was shocked. I find that the platform that bolts on makes the machine much more versatile. Of course, that can be a simple DIY stand a'la Stumpy Nubs. Or unnecessary if you just want to use the port for chisels and plane blades. I am particularly fond of the honing guide and setting jig that came with the wide blade attachment. But, I guess they just didn't sell enough to keep making them. You can use any honing jig you want to with it though.

They similarly discontinued the attachment for using Tormek jigs. I have that one as well and have just recently started using it with a jig to sharpen carving tools. In general, I don't find that one as versatile and it's kinda flimsy in it's design. I could definitely do without it but it came with mine so I found a use for it 

In short though, even without attachments, I think the WS itself is well worth the cost just for the chisel port and the tool bar that it comes with. Build a stand with a platform flush with the abrasives and even better. The CBN wheels? I'd try it with what it comes with for a while first and see if you think the upgrade is worth the cost.

I'll add this though, I've never found it handy for sharpening turning tools. I do use it to sharpen my skews because I made a jig to use with the Tormek bar and I don't like hollow grinds on my skews. I like them honed to a finer finish than a grinder wheel too. But for scrapers, parting tools and gouges, I prefer my bench grinder with friable wheels and Wolverine setup.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks for all the useful insight Kenny. Truthfully, the thing I was looking at most was flattening irons, and primary bevels. I'm happy with my current sharpening setup, just hate flattening lol

I've got a 350 grit CBN wheel in my bench grinder that I use for my turning tools, so that's already set. The other side has a 180 grit CBN wheel that I use for reshaping turning tools, and regrinding plane/chisel bevels. I use the side of my CBN wheel for my skews, to similarly avoid the hollow grind


----------



## DLK

*Nathan*, Excellent work on that MF-14c.

*Andre*, *Kenny* and *Bandit* I've been looking for for MF-11 for a very long time.

*Kenny*, I have been using abrasive disks on the worksharp from Klingspor. For 1500 grit I have to cut my own center hole. They used to sell the an assortment pack of disks especially for the worksharp, but didn't have them the las time I looked. The CBN disks look interesting but I have too many abrasive disks now to make them worth the bother. I did make some MDF wheels to hold compound. I may make a leather wheel. I mostly use the Worksharp for the backs of molding plane irons. They sold a wide platform so building a platform became unnecessary and I got rid of the one I built. The wide platform came with and a super wide eclipse style honing jig that has been very useful. That scotchbrite wheel looks interesting. I bet I can make one.


----------



## HokieKen

The Worksharp works great for flattening irons. It can be kinda slow going because it is a slow-speed machine. But it's faster and less work than grinding them on stones or plates! And the chisel port is the boss for grinding in flat bevels. Brainless and repeatable. Since using the WS, I don't even consider micro bevels. Wasn't ever really a fan of them to begin with though. But, you can do those repeatibly on the WS as well if you want to. Only thing you can't do with the chisel port is camber.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah Don, that eclipse style jig that came with the wide platform is the bees-knees if you ask me. Best honing jig I've ever used for sharpening straight edges  And there are tons of possibilities for abrasives if you don't mind cutting your own holes or cutting them to size. A rattle can of spray adhesive and you can use pretty much anything you want 

I have the leather honing wheel but don't like it for some reason. I just seem to get better results honing on a strop after I sharpen on the WS. One problem with it is the thickness. When you use the platform, the leather is so much thicker than the abrasives that it sits too high and the angle isn't consistent with the bevel you just finished sharpening.

And here's a MF 11 ending later today. It's at a reasonable price now but I imagine it'll go for double the current bid.


----------



## DLK

Kenny, I had trouble getting a straight bevel using the chisel port. What is the secrete? I like my oil stones for chisels, but the work sharp would be good for repairing a damaged edge. I would free hand on a leather wheel. I would back it with the appropriate thickness mdf wheel. You can I suppose shape a mdf wheel to whatever profile you like glue on some leather and voila hone your gouges, hook knives and molding irons. When I was using both mdf wheels and glass wheels I would adjust the wheel height with a washer. I bought a knob with a longer bolt so that I could adjust for difference between 1/2 inch mdf and the thinner glass wheels.

Yeah, thet MF 11 with 5 bidders will go for $150 to $200. So I best not compete, I can wait. I have 2 Stanley 5 1/4 s anyway.


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny, I had trouble getting a straight bevel using the chisel port. What is the secrete? ...
> 
> - Combo Prof


There is an adjustment to square the port up to the wheel Don. I adjusted when I first got it and haven't had to touch it since.


----------



## DLK

Aha I missed that. Thanks Kenny.


----------



## Notw

I may have to try this on mine, it sharpens plane irons like a dream but i have gotten a couple of smaller chisels out of square real fast.


----------



## HokieKen

It's not really an adjustment to be made from tool to tool Notw. It's not simple to access the set screw and it takes some fiddling to get it just right. And, if the port being askew was the problem, it should be more evident on wider blades than short ones. If you have trouble with it on narrow chisels, I suspect it may be a matter of it not being held tight to the bed or the fence. Try moving the adjustable guide out of the way and pushing it towards the fence with your fingers instead. You should be able to feel it move if it's trying to get out of whack. In general I like the port for chisels but when it comes to narrower ones, I prefer to use a honing guide on top.


----------



## Notw

Maybe if one day it would quit raining I could get some plywood to build the stand that Stumpy Nubs designed and do more sharpening on top.


----------



## HokieKen

I'd definitely recommend that


----------



## KentInOttawa

> It s not really an adjustment to be made from tool to tool Notw. It s not simple to access the set screw and it takes some fiddling to get it just right. And, if the port being askew was the problem, it should be more evident on wider blades than short ones. If you have trouble with it on narrow chisels, I suspect it may be a matter of it not being held tight to the bed or the fence. Try moving the adjustable guide out of the way and pushing it towards the fence with your fingers instead. You should be able to feel it move if it s trying to get out of whack. In general I like the port for chisels but when it comes to narrower ones, I prefer to use a honing guide on top.
> 
> - HokieKen


I concur with pretty much everything Kenny has been saying about the Worksharp 3000. It is a pretty good system. I have learned to always register my blades to the right-hand side of the port to prevent any slop or unintentional skew. Right or left doesn't really matter, just be consistent.

I tend to establish the bevels using coarse sandpaper @ 25 degrees, and then once the primary is established, change to 30 degrees. It's not a true micro-bevel for the purists, but it reduces abrasive consumption since I never use the course again and I only use the finer grits on the much smaller 30-degree bevel. On this vintage blade, I just started with 30 degrees.










I also have extra glass disks. I have a worn-out extra-fine disk that I use as a substrate for the honing blocks/paste. This then becomes my power-strop. Super-fast. sometimes it's just too easy. With the wide-blade attachment (or Stumpy-inspired alternatives), flattening the back is also very easy.


----------



## HokieKen

Interesting Kent. You use the wide blade platform to flatten the backs? I just lay the blade on from the side and put two fingers on it to keep even contact. I find the thickness of the disks vary as much as .020" with the different grades of abrasives so I use shims robbed from an old dado stack below them to keep them all at the same height and flush with the platform. For some reason it never dawned on me to lay the blade on the platform but that would certainly be more stable. I'll have to give that a go with the NOS Millers Falls 2-5/8" blade that I just got over the weekend


----------



## HokieKen

FWIW Kent, if you want a proper microbevel, you can flip the pegs in the setting jig around so the arrow is pointing back at the blade and re-set it in the jig.


----------



## Mosquito

Stupid work got in the way of my addiction… Missed out on bidding on a Record 042 because I had to do the things I get paid to do lol


----------



## KentInOttawa

> FWIW Kent, if you want a proper microbevel, you can flip the pegs in the setting jig around so the arrow is pointing back at the blade and re-set it in the jig.
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks. As simple as that sounds, it's the piece of info that my (injured) brain can't/won't figure out or remember. I do remember reading the manual/instructions a dozen times and still not "getting" that. I like the WS because it is simple enough that even I can have some reasonable sharp tools.


----------



## Notw

> Stupid work got in the way of my addiction… Missed out on bidding on a Record 042 because I had to do the things I get paid to do lol
> 
> - Mosquito


Ha missed out on a Stanley 36-1/2 ruler today because my boss called me


----------



## HokieKen

> ...I had to do the things I get paid to do lol
> 
> - Mosquito


Lucky for you I don't pick low-hanging fruit.


----------



## rad457

> Stupid work got in the way of my addiction… Missed out on bidding on a Record 042 because I had to do the things I get paid to do lol
> 
> - Mosquito


LOL! I remember them days! Now it's when auction ends and Wife is looking over my shoulder My Wood Porn!
Missed a #46 An a #62 last year!


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## rad457

She is in the area again What is this thing you call Work?


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## Lazyman

I often wonder how you working boys do any work with as much time as you spend during the day on LJ, not to mention eBay.

I really like sharpening on the Sorby Proedge. I mostly bought it to replace the homemade jig for sharpening turning gouges on my belt sander but I used it to put a new bevel on the MF 14C yesterday and it took less than a minute, including re-squaring it. I didn't try using to to flatten the back but after 20 minutes doing it the hard way I may try that the next time.


----------



## bandit571

Was sneaking around the shop, today…..wanting to get a little work in..









May have some more for it…tomorrow…


----------



## bandit571

So….who has the labels I can copy for this Stanley No. 45? Maybe by this weekend, I'll be scrounging around for them…..Stanley Tools for the lid….Stanley 45 for the box's end…..New Britain, CONN version should work..


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## HokieKen

Look at the last link in Mos' OP on the 45 thread Bandit. They're all there.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

This was clean a few days ago.










Decided three bench planes needed to be set aside for sharpening. Honed three other combo plane cutters. Even did a bit of frog fitness on the No. 72.









The 14 Hollow was a champ all day.









Long curls from 80"+ cypress.


----------



## Mosquito

> I often wonder how you working boys do any work with as much time as you spend during the day on LJ, not to mention eBay.
> 
> - Lazyman


I've been averaging 6.5 days of work a week, and 9.5 hours on those days (some more, some less, but no less than 8) so far this year, so I take breaks whenever I can get them lol It's one of the things that keeps me going.


----------



## HokieKen

I ve been averaging *3*.5 days of work a week, and *4*.5 hours on those days (some more, some less, but *always* less than 8) so far this year, so I take breaks whenever I can get them lol It s one of the things that keeps me going.


----------



## Mosquito

hahaha nice


----------



## corelz125

There's a Record 405 complete with a box in Leachs Feb tool list. There's also a 62 on there


----------



## Mosquito

There was a pretty good spread this month, actually quite a few things that tempted me


----------



## theoldfart

Maybe a Preston 2500P router?

or maybe a set of Iles mortise chisels

I could go on but you know!


----------



## HokieKen

I'm tempted by the small Lufkin die maker's square and the pair of Starrett levels. Those are great prices. I own both and they ain't the kind of thing you need multiples of though so I guess I'll save my pennies…

I'm on the fence about the Henley miter plane though. Just can't decide if I really need it or if I want to stay married.


----------



## Mosquito

Am I missing something Kevin? lol

A Walke-Moore router is pretty high on my list, and they're going to be starting to sell an iron version soon. I wish I could have made it work when they were offering the brass one, but it is what it is. I may hold out to wait for the fenced version, expected in March/April. I do, however, have this one already










And I've got 1/4" and 3/8" Ray Iles mortise chisels already, and haven't need anything else since, especially with the Barnes foot powered mortiser lol


----------



## Peteybadboy

Bought this on Amazon. 23.99 inc shipping. I had low expectations. It said it would include the Chamfer, and 1/8" 3/16 and 1/4" round over bits. The round overs did not ship.

After sharpening, and removing's the paint from the "v" bed, I find it works nice. I'm still trying to get the other bits, but I don't have high hopes. Fairly heavy, and has a fine adjustment . So I am please with it.


----------



## theoldfart

Any idea how much the fenced version will be?
I was going to pull the trigger on the one like yours this month.

Also, do you know if the Stanley or Lee Valley cutters will fit the Walke Moore?


----------



## Mosquito

Cool Petey, I've seen those on Amazon, and they're also all over on eBay too. Cheap copies of the Woodpecker tools, no doubt, but for the price I wondered what they were like.

Kevin, no word on price of the fenced version yet other than "a little more". Not sure if the LV irons would fit them or not either. My guess is not with out modifications to the iron, unless you can fit just the cutting iron part on the bottom of the vertical piece from the Walke-Moore. That part looks similar to the LV irons, but the threaded post for the depth adjuster don't look tall enough to reach the slot in the top of the LV irons. In the pictures of it, it seems like the depth adjuster engages with their iron fairly low (like it may have multiple slots int he back? Not sure, there aren't too many pictures of it available yet. I think all my Stanley irons went to Smitty maybe? a long time ago, so I don't have any of those to test lol

For those who haven't seen it, or know what we're talking about:


----------



## bandit571

Leveling the playing field…









Later, did a bit of rounding over..









Trying to get a box done…


----------



## corelz125

Some of his prices we're reasonable this month. The 62 price isnt to bad. See how long it lasts.


----------



## HokieKen

I assume you saw the 044 on Leach's list Mos?

What's the attraction to the Walke Moore routers? Just curious. They don't strike me as particularly nice or any more useful than a LN or Veritas?


----------



## HokieKen

I got a kick out of his description on the 62. He called the PO a numbnut )


----------



## Mosquito

I did see the 044, and that was one of the temptations lol Was also eyeing the 405, the 072, and that partial set of H&R was sexy lol

The draw to the Preston style for me is the configurations, and versatility for putting the iron in different locations on the plane


----------



## HokieKen

Ahhhh. Totally missed that. That is pretty slick.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I got a kick out of his description on the 62. He called the PO a numbnut )
> 
> - HokieKen


Well, the PO did file open the ADJUSTABLE mouth, so it was warranted.


----------



## ac0rn

The Walker Router may look pretty slick, but I'll stick with the 71, or Veritas.


----------



## tshiker

Why's that Jeff?


----------



## Mosquito

Price, probably… the Lie Nielsen should be around $120 cheaper, Veritas around $50 cheaper, and a vintage Stanley #71 around $140 cheaper, if you're looking for one that doesn't require a bunch of work.

Which, makes me think if you don't care about it being a Stanley, you might as well go with a LN… once they're back in stock, anyway, they're the same price as (sometimes cheaper than) a Stanley #71 in good shape with all its parts


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Definitely interesting routers.


----------



## Ocelot

The gripe I've heard about the LN is lack of blades. Paul sellers has other complaints again it.
Look at 29 Aug 2017 on Paul Sellers blog.

It's a long (multi-year) discussion and you have to scroll to find it.
https://paulsellers.com/2012/11/buying-good-tools-cheap-the-router-plane/


----------



## ac0rn

With the router I am comfortable with my hands on both sides of the cutters. rather than forward and aft. Now that I've seen the cost of the Walker, it to, is too much.


----------



## rad457

> The Walker Router may look pretty slick, but I ll stick with the 71, or Veritas.
> 
> - Jeff


I concur upgraded to the Veritas with all the irons plus the inlay cutter(yet to be used)


----------



## Peteybadboy

Andre when you use the LV router w the inlay - I would like to know how it goes. I have the same set up but have not used it. I don't think there are any videos on it either..but will check


----------



## jerseygeorge

Woodworking Friends,

Two questions…

1. I will post some photos of a "bunch" of planes that I will be selling. I also have a collection of parts. I will be taking reasonable offers. My family had a tool store in New Jersey for over 50 years, and my dad had a huge collection of tools. I kept some for display, but in reality they are just sitting in a box. No low ball offers please.

2. I may restore one plane to keep. I see so many different methods for cleaning a plane up. If there is one super duper best way to clean up an old plane, like a video on youtube, can someone please reference? Thanks. Wish me luck posting pictures.


----------



## HokieKen

I can see the WM router being useful for making/cleaning up grooves and dadoes. I think I prefer the 71 or similar too though. The main things I usually use mine for are to clean up the bottoms of recesses for inlays and the like. I think the WM would be too large and the handles too far from the blade for it to be comfortable to me.

As I find myself tending towards using my 45 and 46 rather than my router and dado stack to make dados and rabbets though, I may find the WM more enticing. Not enticing enough to crack my wallet quite that wide, but enticing ;-)

The inlay kit for the Veritas router always struck me as a really prime example of wrong tool for the job. I believe it's more for purfling type work than what typically comes to mind when you say inlay and router plane in the same sentence. Now that I think about what I would use to do that type of inlay… maybe the slitter on the 45 does have a purpose! Maybe I just don't use my router plane enough to be comfortable with it. But cutting a line along an edge like that makes me want to grab something with a longer fence and a grip more inline with the cutter. Like the Walke Moore router I guess ;-)



> Andre when you use the LV router w the inlay - I would like to know how it goes. I have the same set up but have not used it. I don t think there are any videos on it either..but will check
> 
> - Peteybadboy


I didn't watch the whole thing but here's one Petey.


----------



## drsurfrat

> 2. I may restore one plane to keep. I see so many different methods for cleaning a plane up. If there is one super duper best way to clean up an old plane, like a video on youtube, can someone please reference? Thanks. Wish me luck posting pictures.
> - jerseygeorge


There are so many levels of cleaning up that you will have to decide what's best for you. I like to leave as much as-is, some guys here make them look brand new (stunningly so). The only thing i would suggest to keep in mind is that you can't undo a change, so perhaps hesitate before you go grinding something off.


----------



## Moai

Nice finds!
I paid $12 for these two planes to a Scrap recycler guy, they were inside of a bucket with a bunch of auger bits, lots of rust….











> Another want list item gotten. I have it's big brother, 48.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## HokieKen

Jersey - just in advance let me say that "lowball" offers can have very different meanings for different people in different areas. Bandit routinely buys planes for 3 peanuts and a piece of Bazooka that I have to fork over $50 for. On the other hand Mosquito routinely pawns planes off on me for 3-4 times what they're really worth. So please don't take offense if someone "lowballs" you. They probably don't mean to… If you want us to stay in a particular ballpark on particular tools, you'll be better off posting some asking prices and negotiating from there 

That being said, is that a depth stop for a router plane back there next to the box in the third picture? Not the complete one that goes on the earlier planes but just the rod and foot? If so and if you're selling it loose, I'll be in touch ;-)

For rehabbing planes, here is a blog series I did about 5 years ago on my methods. Here is a series Sansoo22 did last year on his methods. Sansoo makes probably the prettiest planes of any I've seen. If you want to restore collector tools, don't follow either of our methods. If you want a functional tool that looks like new, follow his  And there is a ton of information on timetestedtools.net#. Our own DonW runs the site and has forgotten more about all things handplane related than I'm ever likely to learn.


----------



## Moai

I am interested on the Stanley #95. I am in Jersey as well so I can pick up locally. Please PM. Restoring tools the right way takes time and dedication. Some suggested methods can be really aggressive and will ruin the tool and its value. As a starting point, there is a quote popular among restorers: "never do something on a tool that can't be reversible" 
I like to keep as possible the original condition of the tool, including the natural aging, original finishes and factory marks. heavy rust can be removed with patience with "Turtle wax Rubbing Compound Heavy duty cleaner". I am not into the Electrolisis, Evapo-Rust wave.


> Woodworking Friends,
> 
> Two questions…
> 
> 1. I will post some photos of a "bunch" of planes that I will be selling. I also have a collection of parts. I will be taking reasonable offers. My family had a tool store in New Jersey for over 50 years, and my dad had a huge collection of tools. I kept some for display, but in reality they are just sitting in a box. No low ball offers please.
> 
> 2. I may restore one plane to keep. I see so many different methods for cleaning a plane up. If there is one super duper best way to clean up an old plane, like a video on youtube, can someone please reference? Thanks. Wish me luck posting pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - jerseygeorge


----------



## Mosquito

Two of the scenarios I use my router plane for that I quite prefer my Preston style over my Stanley:


Having the iron sideways on the end of the plane would be nice for cleaning up tenons. I already prefer my Preston style over my Stanley router for that use, as it's a larger bearing surface. Having the iron sideways on the end with the WM would make it all the better I would think. 
When doing half blind dovetails, I use my Preston style where I put the iron on the inboard end side (iron cutting edge facing towards the plane), which allows me to have 95% of the plane on the work piece when cleaning up bottom of the pin sockets.


----------



## Mosquito

> On the other hand Mosquito routinely pawns planes off on me for 3-4 times what they re really worth.
> 
> - HokieKen


Is that a knock on me or you :-D 
(Also, lies, I say!)


----------



## HokieKen

I guess it would be a knock on me ;-) But yeah, it was a lie. I've no complaints about any of the planes I've bought from you


----------



## Lazyman

Just a typo. I think he meant 3/4 not 3 to 4.


----------



## Pimzedd

Went to another estate sale today. Came home with all of these. No great buys like the Sargent Lady Bug rabbet plane I found last week.










I do have one question. The smother is a No. 3 Stanley type 13 and is real clean. Do some of you knowledgeable folks think the iron looks like it still has the original grinder marks on the cutting edge?


----------



## donwilwol

I don't think they are original


----------



## corelz125

Those grind marks look like the low grit marks the worksharp leaves


----------



## Johnny7

I agree-not original-and I think I see a laminated iron.


----------



## Pimzedd

Thanks for the opinions. Johnny, it is Stanley sweetheart blade. Doesn't look laminated from the side. Probably just a standard blade. Corelz, a worksharp makes sense. Hasn't been sharpened very often, looks like full length.


----------



## rad457

The SW #62 showed up but only had time to unwrap it and give it a quick check with the square, sucker was real cold but perfectly square Like the looks of it and quality looks real good! Heading out of town for a few days, going to drive me crazy not being able give it a clean an test run!


----------



## HokieKen

If the sides were square and there weren't any glaring QA issues, I imagine you're in good shape Andre


----------



## Mosquito

haha, that's always annoying Andre. When my new Soprano saxophone showed up at the store, it was in the middle of a blizzard warning, and the day before I was supposed to go to the in-laws for Christmas… When I got the call it was in, I was already half way to the music store, but it meant going through 2 downtowns in the blizzard, which was already pretty bad (4" on the ground and 30mph winds at that point). I decided I had better not, and then had to wait another 5 days of wishing I had it and was at home lol


----------



## rad457

> If the sides were square and there weren t any glaring QA issues, I imagine you re in good shape Andre
> 
> - HokieKen


It was supposed to arrive on Tuesday, the Wife was working Her Bday today so guess I have to spend some time with her, heading to the Mountains for a few days, then clean that sucker up an see what it can do? Working with some Black and White Wenge at the moment so it could be interesting?
The #98 an #99 also arrived an the #99 in pretty rough shape and not a matched set? Problem solved picked up another #99!


----------



## HokieKen

I love Ebay listings like this one where you get well taken photos and such descriptive text to justify an asinine asking price.


----------



## WillliamMSP

> I love Ebay listings like this one where you get well taken photos and such descriptive text to justify an asinine asking price.
> 
> - HokieKen


The stellar feedback seals the deal.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah Bill, I'm guessing they aren't relying on their reputation to move merchandise either. I'd say they'll own that plane for quite some time to come ;-)


----------



## Johnny7

> I love Ebay listings like this one where you get well taken photos and such descriptive text to justify an asinine asking price.
> 
> - HokieKen


Despite being one of the sorriest listings I've ever seen, this seller is going to think that there's a lot of interest in his plane, due to the large number of LJs who use your link!


----------



## HokieKen

Well maybe after several hundred views with no watchers, he'll add a second picture…


----------



## bandit571

Down below that ad….there are two M-F #22 for sale….one


Code:


 $159.....the other

 $85…..anybody we know that would want them?


----------



## HokieKen

I saw those Bandit. I'm watching them but won't be buying. Already have one… There's a really clean #15 jumbo jack listed now too. Price might be a little steep but that's a size that doesn't show up very often. I've got one of them too so I'll leave it for one of you fellas ;-)


----------



## corelz125

A buck rogers was below it for $90 but it was used and abused. Maybe it was a typo and they meant $24.50 but hey at least its free shipping.


----------



## HokieKen

The Buck Rogers is broken beyond repair corelz. That one's good for the sole and maybe the blade but that's about it. IIRC, even the lever cap was a total loss on that one. Unfortunately because I've put the buck rogers planes on my hit list now that I scratched the #24 off ;-)


----------



## RWE

I want to throw out a question. I am combining two very incomplete Stanley 50's into one. I was given one and picked the other up on Ebay for $25.00 plus shipping. However between the two, *I am missing one of the thumbscrews for the fence. (Seems to be a 1/4 inch and one of those Stanley unusual thread counts maybe 28)
*

Does anyone have a thumbscrew that would work for a 50. They have them on Ebay, fabricated ones, but I would rather have an original one.

Also, I need the depth stop. I have a depth stop that I can swap into the plane so I can use it, but I would like to have one for the 50.

I will have an extra body (both sides) and an extra set of the long screw in rods if anyone needs those. Will barter or be happy to pay for the parts. Private Message me if you have an interest in the parts that I have or if you have the thumbscrew or depth stop.

Could use some irons as well, but I can conjure them or cut some spare 45 irons. If no one needs the long rods, I am probably going to cut one pair to get a short set like the 45 offers.


----------



## HokieKen

By "both sides" do you mean main body and skate RWE? So just missing the fence?


----------



## donwilwol

> I love Ebay listings like this one where you get well taken photos and such descriptive text to justify an asinine asking price.
> 
> - HokieKen


What's life without risk? LOL


----------



## RWE

Both sides of the body that hold the iron. Body and skate as you call it.










I have two of those. I was missing a fence on the first one. Got that with the Ebay purchase. The Ebay one had a broken thumbscrew on the fence, that is what I need, and neither had a depth stop.

Between the two, I have one nearly complete enough to use. Plus some spare parts now.


----------



## Mosquito

Meanwhile, there's this seller probably sitting there going "Da Fuq?"

Though truthfully it's hard to tell, their other stuff would indicate they're not naive to tools, but why wouldn't you list a #1 as a #1 if you weren't?


----------



## drsurfrat

RWE, I have an extra depth stop, but no thumbscrew. Lemme get a pic for you.

Mos' - doesn't it have a "W"? id est: W'Da Fuq? I love that they started it at $13


----------



## RWE

Depth stop would be great. I can get two matching remanufactured thumb screws on Ebay at a reasonable price if no one has a spare.


----------



## bandit571

I just got this one the other day from Ebay…









Along with those long rods..









That I needed for my Stanley #45….
I had already bought this other one, as both depth stops were missing on my 45..









I can go and look up who I bought them off of, if you want…...


----------



## drsurfrat

My 45 depth stop doesn't match my 50 depth stop, so I recommend don't do anything yet.

Also, the rods on my 50 have 9/32" (0.277" OD) x 28 tpi - what a nightmare.


----------



## RWE

The 50 depth stop post is narrower than a 45. My Record 043 depth stop will work. Just went and measured, I need a 7/32 post for the 50. A 45 has a 9/32 post.

I saw rods on Ebay going for $25 or more. The rods are the standard long #50 plane threaded rods. I am just not sure what value they have by themselves so I thought I might shorten them. Both planes were junkers/parts planes so I could cut them with a clear conscious, or could I should I. I don't think the 50's are that rare?

I agree it is a violation of all things sacred to take the life or maim an old tool, but then again, are they that rare?


----------



## corelz125

Buck Rogers parts are harder to find than the complete plane. That's a horrible description in that listing Mos.


----------



## HokieKen

> Meanwhile, there s this seller probably sitting there going "Da Fuq?"
> 
> Though truthfully it s hard to tell, their other stuff would indicate they re not naive to tools, but why wouldn t you list a #1 as a #1 if you weren t?
> 
> - Mosquito


That's one of those listings you hope to stumble onto with a BIN option…


----------



## HokieKen

> My 45 depth stop doesn t match my 50 depth stop, so I recommend don t do anything yet.
> 
> Also, the rods on my 50 have 9/32" (0.277" OD) x 28 tpi - what a nightmare.
> 
> - drsurfrat


Think that's bad, Corelz uncovered something on some Stanley plane that has a 9/32-27 thread. Don't booger those threads up!


----------



## Ocelot

I finally got out to the shop to fiddle with the no. 8 blade Ken sent me.

As he said, it had a pretty good bend in it.

I decided to try to straighten it with a clamp instead of hammering it.










That worked pretty well, but now it has a couple of dents in it.

-Paul


----------



## Ocelot

That's a no 5 Vulcan Heavy Service Clamp.


----------



## corelz125

Ocelot we call those bridge clamps. Is there a certain thing you use that one? Those are expensive


----------



## HokieKen

Looks like a c-clamp missing a pad to me. What are they used for Corelz? Why so expensive?

I don't know how somebody managed to bend that iron in that location Paul. Glad you got it straightened out.


----------



## corelz125

We use them for anything that a regular c clamp can't handle. We put 700-800 lbs on them. Depending on the size they go for $200 $300. I have some of the small ones about 2". If your trying to close something and it doesn't work with those you're not gonna close it.


----------



## Ocelot

Well I should have taken better picture.

No, I don't need it for anything, but I'm an eBay shopper, and maybe everybody needs a few odd excessive clamps.


----------



## rad457

Got a chance to wipe her down and check her out, base not perfectly flat but not bad at all, iron was very flat and took an edge nicely but seemed a little soft when attacking some end grain, took some extra work to get into some better metal. Setting it up was relativity easy and quick and worked amazingly even against the grain, tested it on Wenge, Black Limba and some Walnut, scraps laying around the bench. Overall plane worked quite well, good feel, time will tell if the cost saving was worth it? Now to find a place in one of the tills


----------



## HokieKen

Very nice Andre


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I dreamed of a very rectangular plane…










No. 144, 3/8" radius.


----------



## DanKrager

Oh man, Smitty. Perfect for drawer stock!

DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's actually what I was thinking too, Dan. Kinda finicky so far, but I'll figure it out!


----------



## HokieKen

I love me some planes Smitty but I sure am glad I have a router table too ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Router table? You mean, that thing back there, under my assembly bench?


----------



## hiljac

> I love Ebay listings like this one where you get well taken photos and such descriptive text to justify an asinine asking price.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> The stellar feedback seals the deal.
> 
> - WillliamMSP


I got a response back today that it is an 18C, can't tell for sure but tote looks Type 4 to me if I squint at my phone just right. Price is still higher than giraffe pussy…


----------



## theoldfart

Router table? Pffft

Smitty, very finicky?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ain't got it set just right. I mean sure, it doesn't do much, but there appears to be some trick to cantering the cutter "just so" to get the depth of cut and radii just right.










It works much better with all grain directions with a light cut. And some beeswax. Think I got it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Kenny, I forget. Does the router make curly shavings, and say "schhhhhkkk" when you use it?


----------



## HokieKen

Of course it does! As long as you run it REALLY REALLY slow.


----------



## HokieKen

> I got a response back today that it is an 18C, can t tell for sure but tote looks Type 4 to me if I squint at my phone just right. Price is still higher than giraffe pussy…
> 
> - hiljac


Actually LOL'd at that one


----------



## corelz125

What Stanley # doesn't smitty have?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Maybe i should start a list… but there's a bunch.


----------



## bobnann

Found this beautiful plough plane at an estate sale this weekend. The makers mark is E Safford. From what I've learned he was a plane maker in Albany NY circa 1813 - 1820. His full name was Elias Safford. That makes this plane 200 years old (! - ?). Any additional information would be greatly appreciated. I just saw almost the exact same plane on a website Garrett Wade selling guaranteed English made plough plane. They looked identical.


----------



## bobnann

One more pic.









Any idea if this is beech?


----------



## bobnann

One more pic.









Any idea if this is beech?


----------



## corelz125

Nice looking plane Bob. Smitty have a 212?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I do not, but they are cute little buggers.

Bob, very nice! Got the cutters too?


----------



## bobnann

Only one cutter with it . 1/2" wide stamped P Law quite sharp. I will be trying it out soon but I wanted to wait until I know a little more about it. Like is it really 200 years old?


----------



## bobnann

Only one cutter with it . 1/2" wide stamped P Law quite sharp. I will be trying it out soon but I wanted to wait until I know a little more about it. Like is it really 200 years old?


----------



## bobnann

Only one cutter with it . 1/2" wide stamped P Law quite sharp. I will be trying it out soon but I wanted to wait until I know a little more about it. Like is it really 200 years old? What's a 212?


----------



## bandit571

Mell of an Hecho in here…..


----------



## RWE

Bob:

I bought the book "A Guide to the Makers of American Wooden Planes" Emil and Martyl Pollak

from the book:

Elias Safford appeared in the Albany NY, directories from 1813-21 and before as a toolmaker and plane maker.

He has 4 imprints that he used on his planes. The book labeled them A, A1, B, B1. The A is rare, very collectible 5 stars, the A1 is 2 stars, the B and B1 are 1 star. The number of stars should be read as an indicator of how rare the plane would be.

The rest of the text in the book describes certain planes within each category.

So your plane is probably 200 years old. It looks beautiful. Nice find.

If you can get a close up of makers mark, I can tell you what class it is in. To my mind, if it is a 1 or 5 star, it is certainly very cool on condition and age alone.

If you private message me, I can send a picture of the comments on Safford and the various marks and images of the marks. Will need your email. Not sure about putting that on here for copyright issues and such.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> What Stanley # doesn t smitty have?
> 
> - corelz125


Maybe a #53?


----------



## HokieKen

I bet Smitty has the first #53 ever made.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> What Stanley # doesn t smitty have?
> 
> - corelz125
> Maybe a #53?
> 
> - Kent





> I bet Smitty has the first #53 ever made.
> 
> - HokieKen


 It's on the shelf, next to the No. 67.


----------



## bandit571

Just showing off a bit…..activate the Bat-Signal…


----------



## Mosquito

Gave the #2 since attention tonight. Gave it a quick clean. It was derusted and cleaned probably 8 years ago now, but hadn't made its way out to the big shop permanently yet, in 4 years. Little tarnish to clean off here and there, then got it sharpened up good.

I want to sell it, but I love the size of it, and I know I likely won't buy another one, so it's proven difficult… Good thing Kern Kutter didn't make a KK2 or KK1…



















I shouldn't have sent Kenny that #2 sized wooden smoother in the surprise swap 4 years ago, I liked the ergonomics of that one even more lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice, Mos!


----------



## Mosquito

Looking through the pictures I had of that wooden smoother brings back a good memory… I sharpened that thing probably 4 times just from "testing" it before it got sent out lol





































I was chatting with a fellow woodworking coworker around when I made this plane, and so I brought it in, along with a makeshift bench hook (the one I used in the photos above), and we set it up on the counter in our break room and made a good sized pile of shavings one day after work lol. Our manager walked in, looked at us, we looked at him, he looked at the broom I had already grabbed at the end of the counter, and said "Well, looks like you've got it under control", grabbed his pop, and left without another word :-D


----------



## Karda

oh sell it but wait till your to old to use it


----------



## HokieKen

I felt so bad for you that I stopped and took a picture on my way out the door this morning ;-P


----------



## HokieKen

That is, and will probably remain, my only woodie. But it handles figured wood like a pro and is exceptionally comfortable to wield  It really is exceptionally made. (Don't get a big head Mos ;-p)

As much as I like it, I could be persuaded to swap it for a small Langdon miter box. Just sayin' ;-p


----------



## rad457

> I felt so bad for you that I stopped and took a picture on my way out the door this morning ;-P
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


LOL, looks like ya making some veneers


----------



## HokieKen

It's usually set for a much finer cut but when I made the first pass this morning, it didn't cut at all so I gave it a single tap with my plane hammer and that's the result  Even with a thicker set like that though, it powers through like a stud.


----------



## Bertha

Hey guys, made this. It's in my projects section. F that. I'm going to keep buying them from now on.


----------



## Mosquito

haha, thanks Kenny. The 55° bed angle made it great for figured wood, but I found that I had to re-calibrate my "give it a tap" because it changes depth of cut a little quicker than 45°. I think the huge jointer I made was at 50°, and I want to make another smoother at 55°. 15-1/2 is staying right where it is, at least until I make the saw for it 

Very nice Al, I saw the project popup. I've always wanted to make a miter plane like that, but the work involved looks monumental to me


----------



## HokieKen

That'll work Mos. I'll swap with you after you make the saw ;-)

That's a sexy mofo Bertha!


----------



## Mosquito

seeing the prices that John's have been going for, even if only 1/2 of that would be realistic, it's making me second guess whether keeping it makes sense or not… but I had originally gotten it to go in my tool chest, which is still my intent.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm gonna find something, someday to entice you with. I'll wear you down eventually…


----------



## Mosquito

I tell you what, you send a big enough lump of cash my way and it'll go your way lol

There are very few things that I own that I wouldn't sell for the right amount of money… I've had people want to buy some of my computer case mods/scratch builds, and when I gave them a price they said "That's too much", to which my response is usually something to the effect of "I don't want to sell it for a 'fair' price, because it's worth more to me than just its market value". Especially when it's something I made for myself, and not intending to sell. It's 100% different when it's commissioned, or with the intent to sell/give away. But then they realize just how expensive all the little pieces that go into it are when you're not a manufacturer that gets volume wholesale discounts lol


----------



## Bertha

Couldn't have said it better myself, Mos. Everything's for sale. I can't promise you'll like the price, though. I just built a monster computer myself. It's definitely for sale, but I've got 30 hours of headache invested in it. Price will reflect lol.

I think the pyrography is worth a grand on it's own.


----------



## drsurfrat

Custom work is rarely appreciated. When I started making my own furniture, my attitude changed almost overnight from "that's too much" to "how do they do it for that?"

And if you tack the prefix "bio" on the front, you can add two more zeros to the price. (I work in "bio"pharma)


----------



## Mosquito

Al, were you talking about the lettering on the front of Kenny's plane for the pyrography? If so, it's not :-D It's actually just letter stamped in, and colored in with sharpy, pen, or paint I can't remember which lol


----------



## Bertha

Ha! Great trick, Mos! However you did it, it looks cool, and it commands a premium


----------



## HokieKen

Pretty sure it's crayon Mos.


----------



## Mosquito

haha, these days it has to be epoxy, or it's not legit


----------



## theoldfart

Al, fine looking plane. I am amazed at how fine a mouth the plane makers get on mitres.


----------



## HokieKen

> haha, these days it has to be epoxy, or it s not legit
> 
> - Mosquito


That's how you can tell mine is a Type 1. Worth way more than the newer stuff. And way more than any miter box.


----------



## Bertha

^or JB Weld. Totally legit. Or tinted resin. Everyone loves resin nowadays.
Fart, I don't know how they do it either. I mean, I honestly don't. That's not just an expression. My only presumption is that the sole has to be much thinner than mine was. I can see how they can approach that level of fineness, but without sacrificing the integrity of the metal behind the mouth, I'm lost. I'm going to start a trend of boxing metal planes lol. You heard it here first.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Al, fine looking plane. I am amazed at how fine a mouth the plane makers get on mitres.
> 
> - theoldfart


Why Kevin felt the need to talk about how fine Al's mouth is, I'll never know.

(don't tell me, either)


----------



## Bertha

My mouth may not be fine, but it's still pretty. Damn Kevin, you know? I'll honor your request and not delve any deeper lol.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm, arrived today…









And, has a "B" mark cast into it…









Model year?


----------



## controlfreak

It used to be BC before the C wore off.


----------



## Bertha

Nope, that's the Bandit casting. No doubt about it. You can still see the thin yellow filament from which they pull it from the mold. The Bertha casting always has a dingleberry attached to the filament.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> My mouth may not be fine, but it's still pretty….
> 
> I'll honor your request and not delve any deeper lol.
> 
> - Bertha


Thank you. We all ('cept for ScottyBYo) thank you.


----------



## Notw

> Nope, that s the Bandit casting. No doubt about it. You can still see the thin yellow filament from which they pull it from the mold. The Bertha casting always has a dingleberry attached to the filament.
> 
> - Bertha


HAHAHA


----------



## jerseygeorge

> Jersey -...
> That being said, is that a depth stop for a router plane back there next to the box in the third picture? Not the complete one that goes on the earlier planes but just the rod and foot? If so and if you re selling it loose, I ll be in touch ;-)
> - HokieKen


Ken, thanks for all the comments. And the depth stop has a home on one of my two router planes.


----------



## Bertha

Speaking of router planes. I bought a few of these the other day, thinking it wouldn't be that difficult to make a router plane using a hex wrench as an iron. I'm setup for casting, but haven't done it. I figure pattern-make (or 3D print, save our souls) a nice base with a central boss/post, cast it in brass, mount the grounding pole doohickey, and dress it up. Not for me right now, but shouldn't be that hard. Not that the grounding thing is a difficult part to make, lol, but hell, it's just sitting there at the hardware store.


----------



## Notw

So when I am not looking on here at all the things I didn't know I needed or not on eBay realizing I can't afford those things I like to look at pictures of how people store their vintage tools, whether it be in tool cabinets or tool walls, etc. Doing this got me to wondering two things, who has the largest private collection of Stanley or Miller Falls, etc tools and is there a museum for these tools anywhere?


----------



## HokieKen

Along those lines Bertha, I noticed that St James Bay has their kits on Ebay again. Been a while since I saw them.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I would venture to say Don W. at least had, at one time, a very extensive collection of bench planes of all types, particularly Sargents. John Sinclair (sp?) had a hand tools museum once. Patrick Leach has his Inner Sanctum; God only knows what's in there, but it's not a museum.

In short (too late, I know), I don't know.

Good question though!


----------



## RWE

Notw: In Southern Pines NC there is a museum called the Creation Museum. I was in my handsaw phase when I saw it and they probably have every Disston saw model on display. It has been a few years since I visited.

As I recall, a preacher who was a woodworker/tool collector, became ill and retired early from the ministry. So he collected tools and that is what is on display at the Creation Museum

I loved the double claw claw hammers. Have never seen them anywhere else. I don't recall that many planes, but the saw collection was impressive. The web site does not do justice to the place.

So if any of you are in Southern Pines NC, check it out.


----------



## Notw

RWE thats not too far from me so i may have to check that out sometime, thank you


----------



## HokieKen

I'd venture to say Mr. Leach probably has one of the most extensive Stanley collections. And Don W. probably has a pretty extensive collection across different makers. There's a couple of gents, Robert Porter and Glen Canaday who have written articles for Don's site and are Millers Falls collectors. But I have no idea the extent of either of their collections.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> Along those lines Bertha, I noticed that St James Bay has their kits on Ebay again. Been a while since I saw them.
> - HokieKen


Been awhile since anyone has seen St. James Bay Tool? 
He had closed his store in downtown Mesa Arizona when I was in the area last summer.










His web site is still running: http://www.stjamesbaytoolco.com/

Cheers!


----------



## RWE

Notw: Check it out and if you get the chance, put one of those double claw claw hammers under your coat and then mail it me. It is on the main drag in town.

If you are pulling out a long nail with your standard hammer, you grab a board to put under the hammer after the nail is to far to lever.

With that baby, you just pull it out with the first claw and then grab it with the second set of claws. The gap seems to be about an inch or an inch and a half between the sets of claws, from memory.

I think we need a *claw hammer of your dreams *thread.


----------



## Notw

is this what you are referring to?


----------



## RWE

Yes. The only difference is the museum has a sizable collection of those. Various styles and models, all too cool to look at. The Disston saw collection is spectacular, assuming you are a tool geek like me. Since you are on this board, that is a fair assumption.

Anybody ever see those in the wild?


----------



## Bertha

Hey Ken, I bought one of the Saint's versions and I was underwhelmed. I mean, it is what it is, but the Lee Nielsen (not an excessive fanboy) is much nicer. I even made some super pretty knobs for it and it didn't really improve my opinion. I'm a 71-1/2 type of guy personally. I prefer big and beefy rather than thin and delicate b/c I'm not gentle with a router plane at…all. I tend to buy stuff (LN, LV, etc.) and immediately turn gigantic knobs. I'd like one of the lee valley ones. Looks well thought-out.

Klutz, the Saint was always somewhat of a phantom to me. I wasn't aware that there was a brick and mortar store, but that's pretty cool. Would go. The website was always a little quirky and I was never quite sure what I was ordering. For some reason, it left a bad taste in my mouth like Bridge City. I'm not a Bridge City fanboy by any stretch, but I own a handful of real solid state things, no planes I don't think. I have friends that literally have everything they've ever made, and I poke great fun of them for it (a dude with a chopstick makers in Big Otter, WV?) Selling out to the Reds is one thing. The pitiful excuse that it won't hurt collector value is another. Really embarrassing stuff IMO and I hope they got eviscerated here, where people actually use tools.

RWE, don't get me started with hammers. I have a serious hammer problem. WTF am I going to do with 6 rock hammers lol. I can't stop, though. I haven't moved up into the big dollar stuff, but if I see one even the slightest bit unusual at an antique store, I'm all over it.

Regarding collections, I suspect there are some real closet galoots/collectors = galectors.(?) in the shadows around here. I bet several might be too embarrassed to admit what kind of budget they're moving around. I mean, these high-dollar one-known planes seem to move around owners. I see Chelors changing hands pretty often. For the record, I'm not one of those closeted collectors. If I wasn't married, maybe I might be, and I certainly wouldn't be ashamed of it. Whether I'd want to advertise a highly valued collection, I'm not sure. I don't think I'm outing him, but Paul Hamler has a nice collection that I believe he's pared down to all but the most extremely rare. I suspect WayneC is coveting some serious stuff. Otherwise, Don and Smit probably lead the pack. It would make sense that Leach would have everything. Don't count Bandit out! I've seen him post more planes in a week than I own. Liberty tools in Maine used to be basically a museum where most things were for sale. A little down the road is another purveyor of fine planes, I forget the name. I don't know what the hell is going on with them and last time I went, it was like the bulk of the tools vanished. You could still buy 1" end mill bits for $2, so the trip was far from a loss. There's a handful of cute retail joints within walking distance. Worth a visit. Personally, I probably have 100 metal planes, maybe another 100 moulding planes, 20 - 50 saws, but my problem is chisels. It wouldn't surprise me if I had 1K lol. For planes, I like infills and Stanleys and I can probably count the number outside of those on one hand, all of them weirdos, not common brands. If I were rich, I'd collect Metallic Plane Company planes. But I don't collect plumb bobs, thank God. Now collecting guns is an entirely different matter. I have a serious, serious problem in that regard.


----------



## Notw

Bertha, I don't think the guns portion is your fault, I put mine in the safe and then poof more appear…


----------



## Phil32

> So when I am not looking on here at all the things I didn t know I needed or not on eBay realizing I can t afford those things I like to look at pictures of how people store their vintage tools, whether it be in tool cabinets or tool walls, etc. Doing this got me to wondering two things, who has the largest private collection of Stanley or Miller Falls, etc tools and is there a museum for these tools anywhere?
> 
> - Notw


I don't know the answer re: Stanley planes, but I've known many collectors of things (Bugattis, jewels, fossils) that DO NOT want anyone to know of their collection.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I try to keep my Bugatti collection on the DL too. I've never shown them to anyone.


----------



## Karda

why would you collect something and not share it. when i collected knive I didn't exactly bragg about it but I did share it when it came up. i can't see any point in collecting something just to throw it in a drawer


----------



## Notw

I'm with Karda on this one I don't go around telling everyone about my Bugatti collection but if someone was over and took a wild guess that I had a Bugatti collection I would show them. And I could be wrong but I have never heard of someone doing a Miller Falls heist…well HokieKen might


----------



## HokieKen

Darn tootin' I would.


----------



## Notw

I would assume the picture of you is you in your Miller Falls Heist outfit?


----------



## Bertha

Or where's Dan with his Keen Kutter Heist. I can completely understand what Phil is saying. If someone values your stuff more than they value you, you're in trouble.


----------



## HokieKen

Nah, I have a red and black one for Millers Falls heists.


----------



## bigblockyeti

I collect circular saws and share when appropriate, shockingly few desperate housewives in the neighborhood walking fluffy and pushing junior in the latest B.O.B. stroller give a gosh darn.


----------



## bandit571

Guess I had better hide these?


----------



## HokieKen

Nah, I'm good on those Bandit. If you got a #7 or any with the permaloid bits or any Buck Rogers, I'd probably keep those tucked away with the Bugattis though.


----------



## Karda

course with old planes you do have to look out for the rosewood police


----------



## 33706

> Nah, I m good on those Bandit. If you got a #7 or any with the permaloid bits or any Buck Rogers, I d probably keep those tucked away with the Bugattis though.
> 
> - HokieKen


I've got two Permaloid #4's, an MF and an Aussie 'Turner'. I'd trade 'em both for one of those Bugattis you've got stashed away…. unless you're talking about Matchbox or Tootsietoy Bugattis.


----------



## Ocelot

PoopieKat has a lot of stuff, from the photos he's shared.

Since I had the virus I've been working on getting rid of stuff. Seems I'm going to live, but I don't want to leave a mess when I depart this life. I want to live and make a mess (sawdust and the like).

Anybody need a No 14 iron skillet (Lodge)? OK, not ready to unload tools yet. But a 1930 Ball Canner, you can have it if you'll pay the shipping.

-Paul


----------



## HokieKen

I'll gladly make that swap for the MF poopiekat! I let you pick whichever one of my Bugattis you want for it ;-p


----------



## 33706

> I ll gladly make that swap for the MF poopiekat! I let you pick whichever one of my Bugattis you want for it ;-p
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks, Ken! A gentle reminder that this is the "*Of Your Dreams*" thread!!


----------



## Bertha

How about a good worker Stanley #4 for a 65'ish E-type? It's corrugated!


----------



## Lazyman

> course with old planes you do have to look out for the rosewood police
> 
> - Karda


Not anymore. They change the rules so that small amounts of rosewood can still be bought and sold. This allows musical instrument makers and vintage tool sellers and buyers to import and export without worry.


----------



## theoldfart

Al, Liberty was great place to rust hunt. If you peeked under the shelves, bins, piles, barrels and so on awesome finds were there. Even more so at Hulls Cove. Skip has rust in his veins!


----------



## Phil32

If you think a Bugatti collection is a joke, look up the Schlumpf Brothers car collection. It was the focus of a big labor dispute some years ago.

https://www.visit.alsace/en/234010457-automobile-museum-schlumpf-collection/


----------



## HokieKen

Not at all Phil. I just think ME having a Bugatti collection is laughable ;-)


----------



## Karda

why would a car museum be the focus of a labor dispute


----------



## RWE

Help on this color on a Stanley 50. I did not do my research first, so I am asking the brain trust (Bandit). Was this a standard color at some point?

Shown are my two Stanley 50 parts planes that will become one working plane. I picked up a missing fence thumbscrew on Ebay, so I just need the depth stop.

One was nickel plated, the other was painted. I have only seen black on other similar planes. Kind of a rusty red. I think it must be original, but it could have been done by a previous owner. It has been sitting in Evaporust for a while, so some paint came off. I will strip it if I use it.

I am thinking of going with the painted body and doing black.


----------



## bandit571

The "black" would have been a Japanned Black. Say about 3 coats of Semi-gloss Engine Enamel….

Note that the thumbscrews are STILL black….....


----------



## RWE

Thanks Bandit. However the thumbscrew that shows black clearly was an Ebay purchase, not original with that plane.
The other thumbscrew was a washed out metallic sheen. I guess some prior owner did the red treatment.

Engine Enamel is my standard substitute for Japanning.

Like Henry Ford, you can have any color you want as long as it is black.


----------



## HokieKen

That red is definitely a user-applied finish  According to Blood and Gore, having the fish scale pattern on the handle would mean it was nickel-plated except for war production planes which would have been japanned. But yours doesn't appear to have the depth-adjuster lever on it which was added in 1936. So that would date your plane sometime between 1910 and 1935 during which time they were all nickel plated.

Personally not a fan of the nickel plated look so unless it was just remarkably well preserved, I'd paint it black too. Or, just strip it down to the bare cast iron and wax it up 









I used some cold blueing on the "No 45" section there ^ and if the right candidate comes along, I may do a whole plane like that. I think it's a cool look on the stippled cast iron.


----------



## RWE

Of the two plane bodies, the nickel one is in the best shape. I suppose if I get all of the nickel polished down and cleaned it would take paint well enough. I guess I will do both plane bodies and pick the one the looks best after my fake Japanning with engine enamel.

I did not realize that they were that old (1910-1935) so I will have to develop a little more respect. I thought they were 50's 60's types of planes.

Thanks for the comments. I like the cold blueing look.


----------



## Lazyman

You might just want to try a paint remover to see if that will get most of it. Then you can decide if the nickel finish is worth saving.


----------



## RWE

The nickel plane had no fence, so I am stuck with a fence that must be painted. I will put paint remover on both bodies and clean them as best i can, but the skate (think that is the correct term) on the nickel one is in better shape, so I think it would be the one to keep. I have never tried to clean nickel all the way to metal since I have never had one in as rough a shape as this one, but hopefully it will wire brush down to a paintable surface. I would assume that if you got it down so there was no more rust, the paint would bond to any remaining nickel plating and it would be fine.

In some kind of weird way, I like fooling with this stuff as much or more than woodworking. Then again, I wake up tomorrow and it is all about woodworking. Fun either way.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> In some kind of weird way, I like fooling with this stuff as much or more than woodworking. Then again, I wake up tomorrow and it is all about woodworking. Fun either way.
> 
> - RWE


Couldn't have said it better myself ;-)

You should be able to remove all of the nickel with a wire wheel. Any that's left after that is bonded well enough that I'd just paint over it.


----------



## RWE

One other general question. All I would do with this plane is plow grooves for drawer bottoms or box bottoms. I tend to use a wheel gauge to score the groove lines so I have never used the nickers. I only have one salvageable single point nicker with the planes, two others are worn down to being of no value.

*Do any of you regularly use nickers with plows (ploughs) or 45's. If so, do you initiate the cut, then rotate the nicker off for the remainder of the cut or do you keep it engaged to the bottom of the cut. Never having used one, I was not sure what the process would be. I have seen demos of folks pulling the plane backward to score the cut before going forward. Maybe I should embrace nickers?*


----------



## HokieKen

I generally use the knickers when going across the grain RWE. I find that if I use them with the grain, they want to follow the grain and it becomes more difficult to keep the fence registered firmly. That's based on pretty limited use though so take it for what it's worth…


----------



## Mosquito

My experience is the same as Kenny's (with probably more use, for what that's worth  )


----------



## Lazyman

I can't seem to keep the fence registered correctly even without the knickers engaged. One of these days, I will spend a day working on my technique.


----------



## drsurfrat

I'm w Nathan when it comes to practice, I make better grooves and dadoes with a handsaw and chisel - which are not good.


----------



## HokieKen

Yes, my technique certainly has much room for improvement  If a groove or dado is critical, I definitely don't trust myself to plough it with a plane. I use the router or dado stack still.


----------



## RWE

In my previous incarnation when I was a power tool guy, I would use the router table. I probably will use it again for stopped groves (dovetailed boxes). But now that I am a hand tool guy (wannabe I suppose), I am trying to embrace hand tools for everything. So handsaw and chisel would work or a hand router, but the little 043 works well on small boxes. Cut the groove before you cut off the various sides. The 043 has no knicker. So knickers are new to me. I hate to confess, but I have 3 45's and have not used them much. Just look at them from time to time and admire them. I guess I will have to do some experimenting and give the 45's some work. When I get the 50 finished, I figure it would be the go to for drawer bottom grooves, wider than what I cut with the 043. All of that work is with the grain and scoring with a wheel gauge is working well (Paul Sellers idea I believe). Essentially you set your fence, mark a nick with the iron and then set the gauge to match both sides of the nick.

What I was trying to understand was if there was any advantage to cutting with the knickers once you got past the surface, deeper in the cut. Seems to me that they would make that cut harder.


----------



## Lazyman

Do any of you use a side rabbet plane to clean up your grooves after ploughing?


----------



## HokieKen

If you're working across the grain, the knickers are helpful all the way through the cut. They will sever the fibers so the blade only has to peel off the top layer at whatever the depth of cut is. If the fibers aren't severed first then the blade also has to accomplish that which tends to lead to tearout and walls that are less than clean.


----------



## RWE

Don't own a side rabbet. I get good results with scoring the groove edge with the wheel gauge. I popped for one of the adjustable posts and have the mortise/double post Veritas wheel gauge, so you cut a good clean and fairly deep scoring cut, multiple passes. You get a clean line.


----------



## theoldfart

Nathan, yes. Best way for micro adjustments.


----------



## RWE

I will conclude this by saying, I will get out a forty five and cut a cross grain (dado/groove) with a knicker and see what that is all about. Everything I have done so far has been with the grain.

I made about 25 quarter quarter quarter kitchen cabinet drawers, but for that I reincarnated back to power tool guy. The dado stack don't care which way the grain runs.


----------



## donwilwol

I still use the radial arm saw for datos. Wait, did I say that out loud??


----------



## Mosquito

I do too Don… I've got my dado stack in my RAS right now, as a matter of fact


----------



## RWE

A radial arm saw is exempt from the power tool category and is considered old school and cool. I always wanted one, but my shop is too small for anything else.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

*LIKE* to all this RAS talk!


----------



## HokieKen

Don and Mos both? Say it ain't so! Now I have to restructure my whole world view.


----------



## rad457

Did I get the Wrong Thread? RAS of you worst Nightmare  Them things scare me!


----------



## RWE

I did not want to bring that up. I know Don W knows his business and so does Mos. We had a fellow here in town who got careless. In his 40's with two kids. The saw ran on him and severed his arm. He bleed out and died.

Having said that, if I had room, I would have one. I jointed off the tip of one my fingers a few years back, so I don't fool around with the power tools if I am not in a good concentrated mode. Just got careless. Instead of nice oval profile on my left index, I have an abrupt 45 angle on one side.

At that time I was trying to learn to fingerpick guitar. I have no musical talent and did not get very far, but that ended that endeavor for a while.


----------



## bandit571

Maybe this will make Andre feel better..









Was a busy, busy, busy day…..


----------



## rad457

Looky Looky A #62, Woodriver I do believe, have reached for the SW #62 a few times while it isn't a Veritas I'm pretty impressed with it! Sure Glad I found the right Thread again


----------



## G5Flyr

Back on 2/8 Bob Gnann posted some pics of a plough plane that looks a lot like mine.










Sorry I don't have better pics like Bob. My plough has no makers mark and only one owner's mark. The irons are a harlequin set I've cobbled together. I don't know why I bothered 'cause I only use the 1/4". Had to make the stem wedges myself.

An antique tool collector/buyer/seller/appraiser in my n'hood said it was English, VERY generic and could have been made anywhere from 1880-1900. He also said it wasn't worth the $65 I paid for it and the irons. I think he is wrong about that. The old girl has made enough draw bottom grooves to earn her keep (period).


----------



## G5Flyr

> Did I get the Wrong Thread? RAS of you worst Nightmare  Them things scare me!
> 
> - Andre


+1 Andre. I couldn't have said it better myself.


----------



## 33706

> *LIKE* to all this RAS talk!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


*Not shown in the photo is the hand crank welded onto the other end of the motor shaft. Right, Smitty?*


----------



## theoldfart

PK, I thought he used a treadmill!


----------



## donwilwol

> I do too Don… I ve got my dado stack in my RAS right now, as a matter of fact
> 
> - Mosquito


I don't even use a dato stack usually. Just cut and slide. And every time I walk up to any power tool, I make sure I tell myself to not do anything stupid. I do sometimes forget to listen to myself. I never understood why a RAS was more dangerous than a table saw. Both require extreme respect, although I've almost cut my finger off with a bandsaw.

And I know a bad slice from a hand plane isn't usually deadly,but they also deserve respect.

And I don't even want to talk about the 25 stitches I got after years and years of safe chainsaw work last fall. It ruined my bow season. All tools and machinery need respect. Be safe everyone and don't use any tool that scares you until you've figured it out.


----------



## HokieKen

I totally kid about using power tools. I use them more than hand tools on most projects. And I have never, and have no intentions of ever, ripped or resawn anything with a handsaw. I've also bled on my bandsaw and my table saw has gifted me stitches and a slightly misshapen thumb with a numb tip. I used my grandfather's RAS often as a teenager though with narry a mishap. And, in truth, the majority of blood-soaked wood in my projects on the whole are probably from chisels and knives. That includes marking knives. And I seem to find a way to bleed every. single. time. I use a skew chisel on the lathe.

Hmmm. After typing that, I wonder if I should reconsider my recent dabbling into relief carving…


----------



## bandit571

Tablesaw I have can't run a dado stack….but









Lay out the locations..









Tablesaw makes a bunch of cuts…









Break out the waste….









And run the router….plane.


----------



## Lazyman

My Pfeil carving chisels were so sharp when I got them that I finally had to start using a Kevlar glove to keep from staining my work. The cuts were from just randomly brushing the blade, not from unsafe cuts. The worst cut I ever got was from a pruning shear that snipped off the very tip of my FU finger on my left hand. Makes playing the guitar difficult.


----------



## controlfreak

When I did the math that saw stop costs about the same as a good set of stiches let alone a reattachment I bought in. I also gained a much better saw. It was just in time for my hand tool career to start up. I am with Kenny on hand saw ripping a long board, if the power is out I may just wait until it comes back on.


----------



## KentInOttawa

My reality is much different than most people's. Since my TBI, my reaction time is slowed way down and is no longer measured in seconds. That makes any power tool operation where kickback or a runaway tool (think belt sander) are possible aren't on my list of allowable activities. I would have no problem with RAS crosscut operations, but since the accident have been moving to a more unplugged modus operandi. That means that I won't be buying a RAS to replace the one I sold a decade ago.

I'll be setting up my contractor saw soon, but I'll probably never use it without a sled. Rip operations will be saved for a competent friend to perform. I'm good for most drill press operations, but I spend a lot more time clamping work down than I used to.

I may use the lunchbox planer that I already own and am contemplating a jointer. Both would get used seldom and only in short spurts. I can't see myself making too many furniture-sized projects in the future. Similarly, the only way that I can foresee a bandsaw coming into my shop is if I trip across a vintage restoration project at a great price (damn you, Todd).

The last hand-tool injury that I had was from carving Hallowe'en pumpkins in '72. As a general rule, I keep all parts of me behind the sharp edge and it seems to be working. Still, I do use the "cut-proof" gloves sometimes.


----------



## Notw

Kent if you were me you would be in big trouble trying to find "competent friends" HaHa


----------



## Mosquito

Kent, I know it's relatively expensive, but what about considering an auto feeder on the table saw? You could let it do the feeding/holding, and stay well clear of it once you start feeding the board in (though I suppose it has its limits too, particularly on width of cut)

I'm glad that you are self aware enough to know to limit yourself though.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, safe >>sorry Kent. I'm sure there are a few of us without TBIs that could take a cue from your self-awareness!


----------



## KentInOttawa

Thanks for the comments, folks. My limitations give me lots of time to think about, well, my limitations and about how to deal with them. Throw in my desire to be more pragmatic and then any woodworking becomes an impractical, expensive activity. But I enjoy doing it so continue, I will.


> Kent if you were me you would be in big trouble trying to find "competent friends" HaHa
> 
> - Notw


The secret to success in any endeavour is to set your standards low and then fail to maintain them. After that, any results will be good enough.


----------



## Notw

I finally found a Stanley #80 Cabinet scraper, well 80M but close enough for me, it is in decent shape but I would like to strip the paint off and repaint it. What is the best rattle can spray paint to match the original finish?


----------



## HokieKen

I needed a couple of large hex nuts and a really beefy rivet for an upcoming project. So I asked Corelz if he had any he could send me. He did and they arrived at my house last night. He welded them together for shipping purposes I guess. Not sure how I'm gonna get them apart. 









I think it goes without saying but I giggled for a solid hour after opening the package.


----------



## HokieKen

> I finally found a Stanley #80 Cabinet scraper, well 80M but close enough for me, it is in decent shape but I would like to strip the paint off and repaint it. What is the best rattle can spray paint to match the original finish?
> 
> - Notw


Duplicolor black engine enamel is my preference. I still haven't been able to make my mind up whether the gloss or semi-gloss is a better match. Either one will look good though.


----------



## Notw

> I needed a couple of large hex nuts and a really beefy rivet for an upcoming project. So I asked Corelz if he had any he could send me. He did and they arrived at my house last night. He welded them together for shipping purposes I guess. Not sure how I m gonna get them apart.
> 
> I think it goes without saying but I giggled for a solid hour after opening the package.
> 
> - HokieKen


"For medical use only" HAHAHHAHA


----------



## Notw

> Duplicolor black engine enamel is my preference. I still haven t been able to make my mind up whether the gloss or semi-gloss is a better match. Either one will look good though.
> 
> - HokieKen


Cool I can pick that up at O O'Riley's, thank you


----------



## HokieKen

Read it again Notw… ;-p


----------



## Notw

> Read it again Notw… ;-p
> 
> - HokieKen


HAHa, I had to zoom in, that's so much better. they even added a picture, LOL


----------



## corelz125

Fun and games that go on at a job site hahaha


----------



## Mosquito

hahahaha nice


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, did you get it?


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos, did you get it?
> 
> - theoldfart


Not yet… but I haven't ruled it out yet, hoping it sells out soon so I don't have to make up my mind


----------



## Mosquito

Damn it, I lied… I just did


----------



## bandit571

This is only a test…









To set things up for a bead…









Was a busy day..


----------



## HokieKen

> Mos, did you get it?
> 
> - theoldfart
> 
> Not yet… but I haven t ruled it out yet, hoping it sells out soon so I don t have to make up my mind
> 
> - Mosquito


Y'all quit being sneaky and walke on over here and tell us moore about what you're talking about. Am I warm? ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

Lol you got it. Phonetically correct usage as well


----------



## theoldfart

That Hokie kid's sharp as a plane blade!


----------



## HokieKen

Well you almost got your wish Mos'. By the time I saw your post and went to see how much it was, they were sold out.


----------



## Mosquito

yeah, I think if I would have waited another 15 minutes they would have been sold out lol


----------



## theoldfart

'Nother batch in March.


----------



## donwilwol

Talk about jinxing myself. I mentioned being cautious around hand tools as well as power tools, went out to the shop and opened my hand wide open with a knife. So this is one of those, do as I say not as I do moments!

And one more question. Is it possible to argue with your wife when she grounds you from the shop as she's wiping your blood off the kitchen floor? Asking for a friend!


----------



## bandit571

Something finally arrived in the mail…this morning…









Lucked out…as it was supposed to fit IN this new box..









Hmmm…









like a glove? Then, add the plane as well…









And just close the lid…


----------



## Karda

Ive been there Don my wife hasn't grounded me but she is not happy when she has to take me to get sewed up again


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> .... Is it possible to argue with your wife when she grounds you from the shop as she s wiping your blood off the kitchen floor? Asking for a friend! - Don W


 Not in my house. 

But then #IAMAKLUTZ

Swiped my pinky finger across small 3/16" beading router bit recently. Cut profile sized chunk out of my skin and earned me 3 stitches. Was grounded from shop for 2+ weeks.

Been married 16 years, and this was first time wife had to take me to ER for wood working accident. Was actually first time I needed stitches due working in shop for ~30 years too. But SWMBO still added new work shop rule: 
Not allowed to work with power tools, unless another adult is home that can drive to ER. sigh…

Dropped a freshly sharpened 3/16" chisel on my foot a few years ago and gained a interesting puncture wound. It hit bone and bounced out.
That ordeal removed by ability to have a 'sharpening party' where I camp out at kitchen table and freshen all edges on commonly used tools; unless I have assistance available at home. 
She hates sharpening parties a lot, as end up shaving off lots of arm hair, and always end wearing a band-aid or three.

Yes, it is true: #IAMAKLUTZ


----------



## dbray45

I ticked my little finger while running the jointer with a board that was too long for it, tipping it over when running. You know you done good when your finger doesn't hurt but you have a drop of blood running down your glasses. The pain started about 2 minutes into cleaning it up. Cost me 4 stitches.

She didn't ground me - officially, but she did smack me a good one, saying something about hurting her honey.
After that, I stopped using the benchtop jointer for anything over 3 feet.

Now I have a spiral head 6' Grizzly. It is sweet.


----------



## donwilwol

I did manage to convince her to just put a few butterfly patches on it. I had 25 stitches from a chainsaw last fall. First stitches for me. So with that being fresh in her mind, it didn't help.

I know my reflex's are not what they used to be but my clumsiness hasn't improved, so it's not a great combination


----------



## BillWhite

Don, I was hoping that clumsiness would not be brought into this thread. Hee Hee!


----------



## dbray45

Take up trap and skeet shooting, it greatly improves your reflexes. Makes your mind work too.


----------



## dbray45

I finally updated my kitchen blog and added generator house and guest bathroom to the blog.

I have been busy the last couple of years remodeling the entire house


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photo..









Was leveling the center, until it was all the same…


----------



## corelz125

Bandit that 62 has been getting a lot of photo time lately. I try to do the repair work myself or ask my daughter to help. She usually has the band aids stashed some place.


----------



## Ocelot

Prices going crazy
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanley-No-7c-Corrugated-Jointer-Plane-Type-16-1933-41-MINT/193881938407?hash=item2d244399e7:g:rGwAAOSwtfRgHzfv


----------



## HokieKen

I don't suppose anyone in here has a spare knob for a Buck Rogers jack plane?


----------



## ac0rn

> Take up trap and skeet shooting, it greatly improves your reflexes. Makes your mind work too.
> 
> - dbray45


or working out with a speed bag.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…missed one small detail..









Even Smitty did? Hmm…have to keep that lid locked, from now on…


----------



## Mosquito

> I don't suppose anyone in here has a spare knob for a Buck Rogers jack plane?
> 
> - HokieKen


I don't even have an original for my own Buck Rogers (smoother), it was a Down W bloodwood special. Does this mean you got one?


----------



## HokieKen

No, it means I'm pondering one that's knob-less. I think I'll probably hold out for a complete one though. I can't replicate the molded plastic easily and don't ever remember seeing a lonely knob on ebay.


----------



## Lazyman

I'd probably just make it out of wood and paint with red lacquer or auto paint, if you can't find one. I suppose it could be 3D printed but it would be tough to get the shiny finish.


----------



## donwilwol

I thought the bloodwood knob looked pretty good,


----------



## 33706

I've got a silicone mold I made for casting knobs in epoxy, but it was made for Stanley knobs of type 13 and up. Would that be worthwhile, Kenny? Did the Buck Rogers line come with plastic or wooden knobs/totes?


----------



## Mosquito

I would agree Don


----------



## Mosquito

> I ve got a silicone mold I made for casting knobs in epoxy, but it was made for Stanley knobs of type 13 and up. Would that be worthwhile, Kenny? Did the Buck Rogers line come with plastic or wooden knobs/totes?
> 
> - poopiekat


Plastic surround for the tote, and a plastic knob


----------



## HokieKen

The bloodwood does look cool. But it doesn't have the cheesy art-deco appeal that I crave ;-)

I hadn't thought about printing one Nathan. Now that you mention it, I could probably print a mold and cast a good replica with some dyed epoxy. Hmmm.

PK, the Buck Rogers knob is big, is more spherical than most front knobs, and has an obvious parting line. I have no clue why I want that, but I do…









I did get a ball turner for my metal lathe for Christmas. Maybe I can cast a billet and turn one. Dammit. This train of thought is getting exciting and time consuming!

Guess I better make an offer.


----------



## HokieKen

Somebody posted a Type 1 MF#18 yesterday for $100 that was mighty hard to resist. Thankfully somebody bought it while I was asleep last night 

There is a nice #11 posted too. Looks to me like it may have never been used. Has the original box. It's too clean for me so I figured I'd see if it tempts anybody else ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

haha, I saw that #18 last night and thought of you Kenny


----------



## HokieKen

I looked at it first thing this morning Mos and somebody bought it at 4:30 this morning. I was actually glad, I already have an 18 and don't need to start working on a set of type 1s. I'll focus on the Buck Rogers planes for now. That may keep me occupied for a couple years


----------



## WillliamMSP

What's the going rate on a spiffy-lookin' Record 010? I see that one popped up locally on CL yesterday. I'm not interested personally, but it is lookin' mighty fine. It's currently at $175 (though the price already dropped by 25 bucks overnight) -


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ wow, talk about minty!


----------



## rad457

> Somebody posted a Type 1 MF#18 yesterday for $100 that was mighty hard to resist. Thankfully somebody bought it while I was asleep last night
> 
> There is a nice #11 posted too. Looks to me like it may have never been used. Has the original box. It's too clean for me so I figured I'd see if it tempts anybody else ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Was watching one a while back, will see where this one bids up too
Shipping for this one at $30, the last one was over $50 ?


----------



## 33706

> Plastic surround for the tote, and a plastic knob
> 
> - Mosquito


Thanks, Mos! I see the profile of the knob is way off, so casting is out of the question unless I can find a suitable knob to cast from.


----------



## Lazyman

Anyone know what kind of plastic they typically used for those knobs? Just wondering if you could make a plastic billet and turn that on the lathe?


----------



## bandit571

Tennite.


----------



## HokieKen

I think the translucent red stuff was the tennite. Not sure if the opaque stuff is also called tennite or if it had a different trade name. Or any name at all.


----------



## Johnny7

My sources say that the Buck Rogers stuff was Tennessee Eastman tenite #2

The translucent stuff (such as used on the deluxe Parsons brace) was permaloid- the same substance used in those famous yellow-handled, No 60 Stanley chisels

To further confuse things, the permaloid was used in the Millers Falls Deluxe hand plane #209.


----------



## Lazyman

Interesting. Tenite is made from softwood, at least in its current form anyway,


----------



## HokieKen

You gor me Johnny7. I got my tennites and my permaloids confused 

I'm now the proud owner of one with tennite though ;-)









Now the fun of of making a replica knob begins…


----------



## Lazyman

You just need someone to make a mold of theirs. Might be fun to try to 3D print one.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Tennite IS the TRADE NAME of Cellulose Acetate plastics made by Eastman Chemicals. 
https://www.eastman.com/Literature_Center/P/PPC100.pdf

There are other mfg in today's modern world. The stuff is ubiquitous in your life.

Cellulose Acetate (CA) can be molded or processed as solvent cast film. It tends to absorb water easily, and is not most durable plastic. Commonly recognizable uses are contact lenses, photographic media, and transparent face shields.

Cellulose Acetate Butyrate (CAB) is most common version. It can have varying levels of plasticizer trying to improve durability and impact resistance. It is also why some old molded CAB tool handles stink up your tool box. CAB has ~40-50% elongation before failure, which makes if see really tough as long as dimensional stability is not important.

Cellulose Acetate Propionate is cleanest version. Find it used in medical devices, tooth brushes, soft contact lenses, and eye glass frames.

CA plastics are often blended with polyesters when making durable sports equipment, which is another big market for CA plastics. Practically all of your plastic writing instruments (pencil/pen/marker) use some form of CA plastics.

Polymers are FUM!

Last but not least, 
Those blister packs we all hate to open are often CA plastics.

Now that you know all CA plastics: 
Sort of makes you hate the stuff, and not want to drool over a molded plastic plane handle?
HeHe


----------



## HokieKen

I might hit you up to print me a mold Nathan. I'll have to do some research on cold casting and see how shrinkage affects the mold design. Do you feed resin castings with risers like you do metal castings?


----------



## 33706

Kenny, Here's a video about how easy it is to reproduce plastic parts, by creating a polysiloxane silicone 2-part mold, and a pour of casting epoxy tinted to your desired shade. Just ignore all that goofy Messerschmitt stuff, they really know the way to produce top quality parts:






enjoy!
This is how I've created a few knobs and totes, just gotta look for the correct non-opaque coloring. Most colorings are formulated for solid colored plastic.


----------



## HokieKen

Does anyone have a Buck Rogers plane with an original knob they could take some measurements on for me? I'd like to make it true to original dimensions.


----------



## Lazyman

I'll be glad to print a mold but after watching the video that PK posted, I would think it would be better to make a dummy, polish it and then create a silicone mold of it for the casting. The easiest way to print an exact replica would be to get a traced profile to import into the design software that can be rotated into a 3D model. A profile photo on graph paper for scale would probably work too. A profile could also be used to make a pattern template for turning using a carbide turning tool and follower like I do on my Wera-shaped screwdriver handles. If you turn a dummy, I would use a high gloss finish like CA or high gloss poly to get the smooth surface.


----------



## HokieKen

I was thinking more along the lines of printing a mold then putting a thin coat of something to fill the porosity then polishing that up before casting. But maybe silicon would be better. Just not sure I would ever get a dummy that I was fully happy with…


----------



## drsurfrat

Kenny, I have a smoother as I showed you before, i could take the knob off and send it to you to copy or give you detailed dimensions. I've never done silicone so wouldn't trust my lack of experience to get that done.

Don't know if they are interchangable, or if it's the right type.










Again, I wish I had SolidWorks…


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Mike! Everything I can find indicates that the knobs were the same for both types of the planes in both sizes. If you could provide these dimensions, I think I can work off that. These knobs aren't easy to stumble across so I'd rather not risk yours getting lost or damaged in shipping. Muchos gracias!


----------



## drsurfrat

Will do that tonight.


----------



## Notw

Never ran into these issues with Stanleys….


----------



## Mosquito

HAHAHAHAHA shots fired :-D

(or Keen Kutters)


----------



## rad457

Seems some kinda "strange" people get attracted to dem Millers Falls stuff


----------



## drsurfrat

Ummm, I don't know what to do  it seems it is not a screw-post. The plastic knob just spins and the metal stays put. Is the pin on the sole holding the pin for the knob? I am not going to drive it out unless someone promises me that's what to do.


----------



## drsurfrat

> Never ran into these issues with Stanleys….
> - Notw


haha w Mos. Im a Stanley guy, and I *love* their standard threads.


----------



## Notw

Looks like the knob is screwed into that bar so driving the bar out would probably damage the screw

http://thevalleywoodworker.blogspot.com/2015/04/the-buck-rogers-planes.html


----------



## donwilwol

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2017/09/05/the-millers-falls-buck-rogers-714-jake-plane/

Try this


----------



## HokieKen

DO NOT DRIVE IT OUT MIKE! That pin is what the knob is screwed onto. I read that some of the screws were not slotted. I would have assumed that meant it was like a carriage bolt. See how you can do with the measurements with it installed and then leave it alone


----------



## HokieKen

> Never ran into these issues with Stanleys….
> - Notw
> 
> haha w Mos. Im a Stanley guy, and I *love* their standard threads.
> 
> - drsurfrat


To be fair, Millers Falls used the same threads…


----------



## drsurfrat

Thanks gentlemen, I won't destroy my plane. It isn't a carriage bolt, the plastic just spins smoothly. It has no slot (see pic above). I got a friction grip on the slot-less screw, and it still doesn't back out. Maybe it's left handed  Seriously, seeing NOTW's exploded view will help. I will get a complete drawing sooner for later.


----------



## Lazyman

Just for grins I used the drawing Kenny posted to make a 3D Sketchup model. Proportions look about right. Just need some measurements. Not sure there is a good orientation for printing it. Just about anyway you do it will probably need supports of some kind.


----------



## corelz125

Looks like you almost have to be a rocket scientist to get those things apart.


----------



## HokieKen

I just made up that shape Nathan. Have no idea how close the proportions actually are.



> Looks like you almost have to be a rocket scientist to get those things apart.
> 
> - corelz125


Well I'm screwed…


----------



## Karda

maybe it was not made to come apart


----------



## Lazyman

Yeah, I figured since you didn't have measurements you just eyeballed it. It only took about 10 minutes to trace your pattern without worrying about the actual dimension and then remember how to turn the 2D profile into 3D. Looks pretty darn close to my eye.


----------



## Lazyman

Looking at the pictures from the 2 links above. It is kind weird that Mike's doesn't have a slotted bolt like the pictures in the links.


----------



## HokieKen

From oldtoolheaven.com:


----------



## Lazyman

Just wondering how it's tightened on there.


----------



## drsurfrat

Friction is the only thing I can tell. I used double sided foam tape and got a grip.

A yes spherical, 1.613" +/- 0.003 from a few measurements around the ball
B couldn't get it out, somewhere around 0.45" don't know the depth, obviously
C 2.071
D 0.68" +/-0.01
E 1.021, 1.015" 
F 1.613" diameter
G 0.057" about 0.01" deep
H 0.682, 0.692, 0.686" 
also, the stud/bolt/? coming out is 1/4-20, extends 0.873" with threads up to 0.75"

Here's what I got:










The bolt doesn't come out, and the plastic rotates around it, but it's very snug.









sorry, my radius gauge is metric (mm)


----------



## drsurfrat

> Looks like you almost have to be a rocket scientist to get those things apart.
> - corelz125


I got it apart, and I'm a physicist. Does that count?


----------



## HokieKen

Fantastic Mike! That definitely gives me everything I need  Thanks man. Now I guess I better back-burner this until I finish up all the crap I've already started. Or at least until the plane shows up.


----------



## HokieKen

> Just wondering how it s tightened on there.
> 
> - Lazyman





> Friction is the only thing I can tell. I used double sided foam tape and got a grip.
> 
> ...
> 
> - drsurfrat


I'm guessing that the bolt was originally molded into the plastic knob. They probably found that the bond failed in torsional shear pretty quickly and then started slotting the head. I'm tempted to machine a bolt with a spline on the shaft and try casting it into the knob. I kinda like the look of the unslotted head.


----------



## drsurfrat

On the other hand, you're the one who said you naturally unscrew the front tote, maybe limited independent movement is a good thing.


----------



## HokieKen

That's a very good point Mike. Hmmm. Maybe it is better if I just let the knob spin as long as the bolt stays tight.


----------



## drsurfrat

That and I have seen many spline-plastic interfaces crumble under repeated stresses.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, your spot-on with that Mike. I figure the elasticity of casting resin would reduce the likelihood of that failure mode but it's still a concern.


----------



## HokieKen

Found a picture showing the bolt Mike.


----------



## Notw

based off that picture HokieKen it looks like it is splined like a lug nut


----------



## HokieKen

Yep. Which I'm sure is why it failed. The plastic would have stripped and let go of that fine of a spline, or knurl or whatever it is, in short order. Which I imagine is when they added the slot to the bolts.

Which indicates that you probably have a very early type 1 Mike.


----------



## drsurfrat

*Millers Falls vs Stanley*
Like I said, I'm a Stanley fan, but they aren't perfect. They responded to the space age era with their own futuristic (low end) offering the Handyman H104. It only lasted the year (1964). I understand why.


----------



## drsurfrat

Kenny - also, that washer on the bottom of the knob did not move, so maybe part of what they did was to press it on. Maybe you could do that and allow the knob rotation but not so much that it spins around every time you touch it.


----------



## HokieKen

I was actually thinking that replacing that flat washer with a wave spring washer might be enough to lock it in pretty tight without putting any stress on the plastic. I'm not going to loose any sleep over it either way. I don't anticipate this will be one of my regular users. I'll make sure it's fettled and functional but I don't imagine it will be the one I reach for on a regular basis.


----------



## Notw

Well not exactly a hand plane but it's really close, in my opinion. I finally found a Stanley No. 80M at a reasonable price and restored it. Thanks to HokieKen for the paint recommendation although next time I may try the low gloss.

as bought 









After stripping the old paint and fixing some of the casting mistakes









Final


----------



## RWE

That looks nice. I tried low and high gloss as well and settled on the low gloss. I think both work, but the low gloss suited me better. I have this same thing to do on a Stanley #50.


----------



## corelz125

How did you get all the paint off notw?


----------



## drsurfrat

Downright spiffy NOTW. And I think everyone I've read classifies scrapers as planes - including beaders and routers.


----------



## bandit571

Had to make use of a"plane" this evening..









Cleaning up hinge mortises..


----------



## Mosquito

Funny enough, always went with semigloss lol


----------



## Notw

> How did you get all the paint off notw?
> 
> - corelz125


I let it soak in the electrolysis bucket overnight (I noticed on the last plane I did that it seemed to loosen the paint) then I used a brass wire wheel to get the rest off. Paint came off real easy, a Dremel with a wire wheel did the tight spots. Then a file and dremel with sandpaper wheel to smooth out the casting mistakes


----------



## corelz125

That's right Mike "scraper planes". Guess its more of an enamel than japanning or electrolysis will remove japanning to?


----------



## Karda

I agree low gloss


----------



## HokieKen

You can shoot a single coat of semi-gloss over top of that to knock the sheen down Notw. Wait a couple of weeks though to ensure that is fully cured. If you took the trouble to file down rough spots in the casting, semi-gloss would definitely be preferable. Full gloss can hide some of the casting "character". It looks mighty fine from where I sit though


----------



## controlfreak

That looks great Notw I have an 80 that I picked up a few month ago that I need to give some of that love.


----------



## HokieKen

A few years ago when I got my #80 (actually a Record 080 but same thing) I found a blog post online somewhere on tuning it up. For the life of me, I can't find it now. It was pretty basic stuff like file the bed completely flat and leave it with some tooth so the scraper won't slip and putting a slight bend in the retention bar to form a kind of spring clamp to make sure it makes contact across the full width. I think there were some other interesting tidbits in there too.

Anybody happen to know what I'm talking about? It was useful enough that it sticks in my mind but for some reason I didn't bookmark it…


----------



## rad457

Think when I picked up my #80 I did some tuning, as well a putting in a Hock Iron, the thicker blade makes a world of difference. I believe that that Veritas blades are also on the thicker side?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Something landed in amongst some of my tools : )


----------



## drsurfrat

Is that a gigantic meteorite, or an attempt at making a chipped-flint stoneage ax? I'm actually not sure which would be cooler…


----------



## Notw

I;m guessing poop released from an airplane that froze as it landed back down on earth


----------



## BlasterStumps

Canyon Diablo meteorite.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> Canyon Diablo meteorite. - BlasterStumps


 Hmm, OK. So it is poop from the space station or from one of those alien space ships! 

Best be careful with that stuff. 
I heard rumor that space poop can store those little gremlins that steal stuff in shop? :-(0)

.


----------



## bandit571

How long before LV starts making plane irons from that stuff…?


----------



## HokieKen

When poop freezes, does that mean it's colder than s%!t outside? ;-)

That's a cool-looking chunk Mike. Is it just a keepsake or do you have plans for using it for something?


----------



## BlasterStumps

It's a keepsake I guess. Another one of my interests you might say. Most people's eyes glass over as soon as I try to explain about what they are and where in the universe they might have originated from. Kind of like showing some people my hand planes and other old tools in the workshop : )


----------



## drsurfrat

*Most* peoples eyes glaze over, but it is fascinating to me. I am impressed that it travels millions of miles, survives thousands of degrees of heat at 20,000 mph during entry (not re-entry), then begins to rust as it sits here on earth. I ended up getting a piece of the Shiilkote-Alin of 1947… or so it says.


----------



## HokieKen

Anything with origins outside our atmosphere that made it to Earth by natural means is pretty stinkin' cool if you ask me. Kinda terrifying too though. Change the angle of incidence at which it entered our atmosphere by a couple of degrees and add a few tons to it and we could be walkin' with the dinosaurs…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Sikhote-Alin was a big one. Something like 23 tonnes spread out over quite a large area. I had a chance once to buy a little piece of shrapnel from that fall but didn't get it for some reason. Should have I guess.

They make knife blades out of meteoritic iron, wonder what a plane blade would be like made from it. Probably work great.


----------



## Lazyman

> *Anything with origins outside our atmosphere that made it to Earth by natural means is pretty stinkin cool* if you ask me. Kinda terrifying too though. Change the angle of incidence at which it entered our atmosphere by a couple of degrees and add a few tons to it and we could be walkin with the dinosaurs…
> 
> - HokieKen


Especially when you realize that it came out of a supernova-the only way heavy elements are naturally created.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Were we discussing the depth stop screw on the No. 278 in this thread?


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, we were Smitty. Corelz has a 278 in need of a depth stop and a screw.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Well, going through detritus last night and found a screw that works! Looks like a PC cabinet screw, fat, knurled head. Shiny. Very cool. I'll get a pic this am.


----------



## HokieKen

Most of those screws are #6-32 Smitty. IIRC, I think that was what we hypothesized when we discussed before


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Why is it not surprising you know the thread composition of PC cabinets, Kenny?

When I grow up, I wanna be like you!


----------



## rad457

Grow up? Why? Got my matching #99 for the #98 What is this #278 you speak of? I must need one


----------



## HokieKen

When you loose as many screws as I do, you learn a thing or two Smitty ;-) As far as growing up and being like me, you'll have to pick one or the other!


----------



## HokieKen

Mr. Rogers, aka Buck, is out for delivery


----------



## HokieKen

Awww yeah.


----------



## BenDupre

> Awww yeah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


Is this the fabled "Buck Rodgers" plane?


----------



## theoldfart

It is, except in Kenny's case it is the Duck Dodger plane!


----------



## BenDupre

Can one turn Bakelite to form a replacement knob? Or more important.. where does one acquire red Bakelite? I understand it's a thermoset meaning it can be molded but not melted and remolded.


----------



## HokieKen

Working on that Ben ;-). Stay tuned. Not Bakelite though, just casting resin.


----------



## Lazyman

That must have been used by a one armed pirate!


----------



## bandit571

Heard of Thumbhole rip saws..









But, I don't think I've heard of a thumbhole Jack plane….let alone seen one…


----------



## HokieKen

Duck Dodgers Kev? You're dating yourself man ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Duck Dodgers Kev? You're dating yourself man ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Kenny… You know his handle on here is "OldFart", right?

lol


----------



## rad457

> Duck Dodgers Kev? You're dating yourself man ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> Kenny… You know his handle on here is "OldFart", right?
> 
> lol
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Thought that might be an American thing, but 1953, well before my time


----------



## 33706

> Working on that Ben ;-). Stay tuned. Not Bakelite though, just casting resin.
> 
> - HokieKen


*Kenny, may I suggest:*


----------



## corelz125

Sort of a transitional block plane?


----------



## HokieKen

I may end up there PK. I already have some Alumilite resin so I'll use that and Lazyman is going to print me a mold. If that doesn't work out and I don't find a knob on ebay in the meantime, I'll probably give silicone a shot


----------



## donwilwol

> Sort of a transitional block plane?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - corelz125


Looks Sargent


----------



## corelz125

Listing says it's a 107 Don


----------



## Mosquito

I might have to make me one of them "bandit boxes" tonight


----------



## HokieKen

They got those things out in a hurry Mos  You don't want to start a display cabinet for router planes next to your combo planes? ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

lol not yet… I'll leave that one to Wayne


----------



## WillliamMSP

That's lookin' pretty sweet! What are the two tapped holes on either side of the middle for? Fence action of some sort?


----------



## Ocelot

Well, I was trying to get out of collector mode and into woodworker mode….

... and then over the weekend, I bought my 6th Bailey No 7 (a type 10) and a mint USA Sweetheart 71 with all the parts and the original box. <sigh>


----------



## Mosquito

> That s lookin pretty sweet! What are the two tapped holes on either side of the middle for? Fence action of some sort?
> 
> - WillliamMSP


I'm excited, that's for sure  The holes are for attaching an auxiliary base, if you wanted to attach a wooden base plate (or any other material I suppose). They're not tapped, just countersunk from the top side. They'll be making a fenced version soon, which has 2 slots for the fence to register into

That's a mighty fine looking #71 though Ocelot


----------



## bandit571

Bandit Box?









I'll keep the lid shut, on mine…


----------



## Ocelot

> That s a mighty fine looking #71 though Ocelot
> 
> - Mosquito


Thanks Mos. I think it cost me about the same as my 45 with a full set of blades. Still, I suppose in today's market I got a good deal. It was a bit less than $150 shipped.

Your new router looks mighty spiffy. Price is out of my range, just now though.
-Paul


----------



## Mosquito

I'd say $150's not a bad deal, try finding a LN or Veritas router plane right now  I saw Jim Bode listed a 48 and 49 for $349 a piece, which is $120 over what LN sells them for… ouch. This router… I probably shouldn't have, but I did lol

Bandit, something like that, though I may make mine a sliding lid instead. I have a previous owner made box with a sliding lid for my other Preston style router plane, and like it, but I'll have to figure that out based on what stock sizes I have on hand lol


----------



## theoldfart

Looks mighty fine Mos. Give it a run yet?


----------



## RWE

Got my Frankenplane Stanley 50 put together.

I had a friend give me the body but no fence, nickel plated, in fair shape overall. Picked up a second parts 50 on Ebay and took the fence off of it. The second one was rough. The fence was missing a thumbscrew. So I picked up a thumbscrew on Ebay for just about half of what I had paid for second parts 50. In for about $40 total for the parts to go with the original gift.

With the combination of gift plane having a body nickel plated and second 50 having been painted, I had no choice but to paint the whole plane.

I used Dupli-Color Engine Enamel With Ceramic, Semi-Gloss.

I still need a depth stop and that screw that keeps the fence parallel. I have a depth stop that I can switch into it from a Record 043, so it is functional.

I have a couple of worn out single prong spurs/knickers and several 3 prong 45 spurs/knickers that I can file down to one spur.

I favor the 043 for box grooves, but wanted a larger plough for drawers or larger grooves.



















I need to clean off my bench!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Mosquito

> Looks mighty fine Mos. Give it a run yet?
> 
> - theoldfart


Not yet, unfortunately… but can't wait


----------



## Karda

why would you clean the bench, having a clean work bench just isn't right. leaning you work bench should only be as part of a project


----------



## Mosquito

looks like Karda and I broke the thread lol
(aka posting to un-jam)


----------



## bandit571

Clean bench?









What an interesting concept…..never happen…


----------



## RWE

Well I cleaned my head out with a nap and woke up to a picture of Bandit's bench. It is awe inspiring.

I actually do clear/clean my bench off about once a month, but it never does last more than a day.

Bandit: I salute your vast knowledge and your superior mess. Most excellent.


----------



## Ocelot

Looks like I'll need a box too. I think it probably should hold both of my router planes and irons etc.

I already had a 71 ½ and full set of veritas imperials. It's the older style that is not grooved and tapped for a fence.


----------



## Mosquito

I actually mostly cleaned mine off this weekend, and then flattened the top with the KK8. Haven't since that in a while. I think I've only done it once since the initial flattening when I built it. It's stayed relatively flat, and didn't take much to get it flat either time I've done it.

I only say mostly cleaned, because most things that were in the tool well stayed there lol


----------



## RWE

I need a different enclosure for the 45's in my shop and now the 50. I keep designing the hypothetical cabinet where they will live.

My tool well runneth over.

I have flattened my benchtop once. With all the clutter it is hard to use it as a reference. It is about 4 inches of solid heart pine and has surprising not moved much. Two slabs, Roubo style. The pine gets dings and such, but it was the only good choice at the time. I wanted solid wood and not a laminate. It has the virtue of being heavy.

Everytime I see a picture of Bandit's shop I want to walk in and grab a slab of wood and try each plane for edge jointing. Looks like Disney World.


----------



## bandit571

One way would be to get the planes off the bench, and put away, for now..









Or, at least box them up…there is that old OEM box..









Kind of beat up ( USPS Football..) so it has something else inside,,









All things Dremel….on top of the old box, is it's replacement..









Roxton Pond Type 20..









Then the newest of the cases…









Then there is that router box…









Makes a right tall stack..









The one beside that stack?









Has more than one plane on board..









A #78, a #39 3/8" and a #181….as for that small pile in front of the stack..









Underneath the #110, is an Xacto knife set….

Tomorrow, I'll clean the rest of the "stuff", and put it away….might take all day, too…


----------



## rad457

Well now for sumthing just a little different Hauled out the Krenov coopering plane and a scrapper that was hiding!


----------



## theoldfart

Andre, how about a few more pics of that coopers plane?


----------



## RWE

Is the cooper's plane for rounding over barrel staves?? (not sure if that is the correct word, but I think so).


----------



## rad457

> Andre, how about a few more pics of that coopers plane?
> 
> - theoldfart


Tomorrow when I'm back in the shop, it was one of 3 Krenov planes I made at Inside Passage, the smoother cracked when I came back home, great lesson on the effect of humidity and wood! 
I just started reading the new book about him so sort of felt good to use one of the planes he designed

*Is the cooper's plane for rounding over barrel staves??* Originally yes for the inside curvature, one of Krenov's trademarks, Coopered doors.


----------



## Mosquito

Got to mess around with it a little last night, and shoot some video of it, planning to post one later this week


----------



## HokieKen

Whatcha workin' on making Andre? It looks like a drawer case with a concave face in the vise?


----------



## HokieKen

How's it feel Mos? Just at a look, having the knobs spread that far apart at the end positions and elevated that high, it strikes me like it would be difficult to get proper leverage at the cutting edge? I does look really handy to be able to swap the knob and blade positions though!


----------



## Mosquito

It feels pretty good, but I'm also used to using this style already since I've had a Preston style router for a number of years now. I don't generally hold the knobs themselves the same way I do with a 71


----------



## rad457

Few Pic's for Kevin, still reach for them when frustration starts The smoother is version 2.0 after first one cracked
Kenny, Actually it's a larger size Box, hopefully will sorta look like a book? Off to pick up some new b.s. blades, the Wenge finished of my last one!


----------



## Notw

Nothing new since yesterday? What am I supposed to do with my day….work?


----------



## bandit571

Latest project is done, and hung up on the wall….taking a bit of a vacation…..stay tuned…


----------



## Mosquito

Actual vacation Bandit, or just an "away from the shop" vacation? 

Out of curiosity, let's say you were going to watch a video about the Walke-Moore router plane, a deep dive, go over all of it sort of thing… What would be a video length you think you would be looking at?

Asking for a friend… or something. Have done a first pass at editing, and I'm curious what the threshold of pain is lol


----------



## theoldfart

For the locals here about an hour or so, everyone else two minutes!

Damn, out loud.

I am interested so my threshold is higher than someone who's just curious. So I'd invest ten minutes or more. The casually curious probably around two to three I would think. My bias is showing isn't it!


----------



## Mosquito

Heh, that first one is what I was thinking too :-D

Truthfully it's like, a full complete walk through of pretty much everything at the moment (the parts, breakdown of the irons, trying Lee Valley irons, fit and finish, iron configurations, why I like it, and a little bit of using it and some musings on how it fits into my workflow.

I've done an initial cut, and it's down to… Well, a lot of minutes lol Like 45, after cutting out 30 or so. Usually the second and/or third cut will take out another 10-15%, but that's still pretty damn long, so I'm sort of rethinking it a little. Might see about making it less detailed, and doing subsequent detailed videos on the other pieces to follow up. It's not going to be interesting enough to be a TV episode sized video…


----------



## HokieKen

It really depends on what's in the sidebar while your video is playing Mos'. If "100 epic sorority house wardrobe fails" is over there, your time is already up ;-). Otherwise, usually 15 minutes is about my limit if it's not a tool I'm considering buying. If I am considering it, I'd give it an hour or more…


----------



## drsurfrat

One thing that keeps me watching is a really good quick summary so I know what context to put the rest of the details in. (It has to be first, none of this dramatic anticipation that only aggravates me.) If you showed the router, it's configurations, a quick use, and your opinion of it within the first couple minutes, then I would be hooked enough to watch you sharpen the cutters or swap handles. 

Rant:
At scientific conferences some presenters would wait til the end of their 30 min talk to show the relevant data. As if knowing that "addition of 0.05% calcium improves testing" is something that i excitedly wait for - for half an hour.
IMO, Not only an abuse of a captive audience, but you can't put the details in context of the 'discovery' until after the talk.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, what he said ^

And wear something sexy too. I like a little eye candy with my tools.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Have you considered a multi-video approach? Maybe a high-level overview that's ~5min or less to hit the high points and also act as a trailer to the longer deep-dive?

In the past, I would have said that a deep-dive might even benefit from being broken up in to multiple videos, but now that there's chapterization, it'd be great just do it that way. IMO as a viewer, seeing that a video has chapters is huge. First and foremost, it lets me know that the creator thought about the content and how it would be grouped and presented and is a bit of indicator that it'll be more concise than rambling - longer videos are okay if they're long because they need to be, but I hate me some disjointed musings. The other nice thing about chapters is that it obviously lets me get to the bits that most interest me, if I'm looking for something specific, like physical features or how to use it in a particular operation.

Having said all of that, I suppose you could just do one long vid and just treat the first chapter as the high-level overview and then break it down from there?

Edit: drsurfrat ninja'd me during my slow, morning fog typing.


----------



## RWE

Mos: I watch a lot of the free content on Paul Sellers and I see him using a rectangular router quite often. I have never paid attention but I think it is a Record model. However, in watching him use it, you can see the benefit that the width of the rectangle gives. In particular, he uses it to size tenons by locking one side on the board and pivoting the other side with the cutter over the tenon face to get a perfectly sized and centered tenon. This operation follows a hand sawn cut to create a proud tenon face.

Depending on the length of the tenon, this operation becomes impractical with a conventional Stanley style router without a base being added. You can add a second board at the end of the tenon to provide a second surface to register the router on, but having enough length in the router base is better it would seem to me.

So having said that, Paul has made me interested in the "rectangular" router and i would watch a video on your model up to 20 or 30 minutes to see what other benefits flow from having the cutter being able to be sifted in position.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> One thing that keeps me watching is a really good quick summary so I know what context to put the rest of the details in. (It has to be first, none of this dramatic anticipation that only aggravates me.) If you showed the router, it s configurations, a quick use, and your opinion of it within the first couple minutes, then I would be hooked enough to watch you sharpen the cutters or swap handles.
> 
> Rant:
> At scientific conferences some presenters would wait til the end of their 30 min talk to show the relevant data. As if knowing that "addition of 0.05% calcium improves testing" is something that i excitedly wait for - for half an hour.
> IMO, Not only an abuse of a captive audience, but you can t put the details in context of the discovery until after the talk.
> 
> - drsurfrat


+1



> Have you considered a multi-video approach? Maybe a high-level overview that s ~5min or less to hit the high points and also act as a trailer to the longer deep-dive?
> - WillliamMSP


another +1

Of course. we'll watch it 'cuz it's Mos after all.


----------



## DanKrager

I simply will not watch a video, no matter who created it, that starts with a lot of hand waving and selfie shots. That severely limits the field because everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame, not realizing I tuned in to see what they are talking about, not to watch them dance and yell. I've been known to watch hour long documentaries of stuff that interests me. When the camera is focused on representative descriptive action, I'm interested. Usually it takes only about 15 minutes or less to efficiently present the essence of most any subject. Stumpy and Sellers seem to have mastered the art of keeping themselves in the picture while the action is presented, and I can live with that as long as their verbiage is pointed. Still, I skip sections of their stuff….

The notion of breaking apart into chapters is genius for really lengthy and detailed presentations, and for the reasons drsurfrat mentions. If it can be done with an index of links to the chapters up front, so much the better. Then I can jump right to the interesting to me part or continue where I left off easily. If one could count the links to the handwaving selfie section, I think the creator could get an education.

That's as close to a helpful rant as I can get. Good luck, Mos.

DanK


----------



## WillliamMSP

> The notion of breaking apart into chapters is genius for really lengthy and detailed presentations, and for the reasons drsurfrat mentions. If it can be done with an index of links to the chapters up front, so much the better. Then I can jump right to the interesting to me part or continue where I left off easily.
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


On Youtube, at the very least, the video progress bar will have visual breaks for the chapters - hovering your cursor over the segments will give you the chapter name. I've also seen chapters broken out with thumbnails to the upper right corner, where you would usually see additional videos in a playlist, but I'm not sure if this is a user setting or what - I don't see it on all of the chapterized videos. Anyway, that's a nice way to jump right to the content that you're looking for, if available.


----------



## Notw

> Yeah, what he said ^
> 
> And wear something sexy too. I like a little eye candy with my tools.
> 
> - HokieKen


Exactly, I'm pretty sure a shop apron is considered fully clothed, nothing else needed.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Bill, right now it's set up to be using chapters, with clear transitions between sections in the video (making it easy to have timestamps for chapters). I wrote up and generally followed an outline when shooting it, to help with that. I knew it was going to be long for what I had planned, but having second guesses about posting something that long. As edited after the first quick pass (the initial clean up), it's as follows (with duration)


Intro (23s)
Unboxing Overview / What parts come with it (4min)
Materials (5:30)
Fit and finish evaluation (4:30)
Iron configurations and iron assembly (13min) (probably needs a bunch of trimming still)
Using Lee Valley Irons (9min)
Showing my two favorite uses (Might move this forward, before all the details, to be #3) (5min)
How I hold it and use it normally
On the end facing inward, cleaning up tenon sides or edge grooves (T&G/Frame and Panel)
On the end outside facing out, sideways cleaning up tenon/half-lap faces

Conclusion (4min)

Multi-video is what I was considering doing after the first pass came in at 45 minutes. I'd probably do 1, 2, 7, 4, 8 in the first one, and then probably 3, 5, 6 in the second with a new intro/outro. Would definitely be different if I was trying to sell these things lol There's just not that much info on these (or the old cast bronze ones) out there.


----------



## HokieKen

I think that looks like a pretty good setup Mos. Just post it whenever you're happy with it IMO. Last I checked, YouTube is free and I doubt if Walke Moore is paying you for your efforts ;-) So I say upload that puppy and hop back to using it!


----------



## controlfreak

Mos, I hear you get more viewers if you get some cleavage in the camera view.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ What he said.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Vey cool!

Moving your favorite uses up in the timeframe isn't a bad idea, I think; I'd even consider having it in the #2 spot. I think that most people would be interested in the functionality that it brings to the table and how it differs vs the standard router forms. At the end of the day, sales is about benefit, and this is essentially a sales video. Hook with the benefit, and you can get in to the nitty gritty after viewers are invested.

Timestamps in the description or pinned comment is great, but I'm partial to the chapterization, which I think it pretty slick. I think that you could get away with one video if it's well organized and navigable, but if you do break it in to two videos, your grouping makes sense to me.


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos, I hear you get more viewers if you get some cleavage in the camera view.
> 
> - controlfreak


LOL, I'll have to see if I can get my wife out to the shop, we have a 3 month old, so…. Those with kids know what I mean  "Here, just hold this, I need a thumbnail"



> Timestamps in the description or pinned comment is great, but I m partial to the chapterization, which I think it pretty slick.
> 
> - WillliamMSP


Yeah, by timestamps I meant the chapters, I think if you put the timestamps in the description it generates the chapters based off of those, but I could be wrong. I haven't done it yet so I'm not exactly sure how to just yet. Regardless, chapters is generally what I refer to by the timestamps since they introduced them.


----------



## WillliamMSP

> ...we have a 3 month old…
> 
> - Mosquito


Congrats! Enjoy!



> Those with kids know what I mean
> 
> - Mosquito


Congrats! Enjoy! Lol.


----------



## rad457

> Mos, I hear you get more viewers if you get some cleavage in the camera view.
> 
> - controlfreak


I am going with Kenny on this and not a Pic of Fridge on his bench Some thing just can't be unseen!


----------



## Mosquito

lol thanks Bill 

I won't mention my Bondo pose on the workbench when it was done either then Andre lol


----------



## Lazyman

Printed a prototype of the Buck Rodgers knob using Mike's measurements. This thing seems really small to me.

Edit:Here's the picture


----------



## corelz125

That thing looks good Nathan


----------



## bobnann

First of all Don I sympathise. I didn't realize til much too late that woodworking is a blood sport. 
I don't mean to hijack this blog but please humor me. I found this sash plane with makers mark "A.B.". If anyone is familiar with this please post or message me. Tried American Wooden Planes fifth and found nothing. If nothing thanks and carry on.


----------



## bobnann

First of all Don I sympathise. I didn't realize til much too late that woodworking is a blood sport. 
I don't mean to hijack this blog but please humor me. I found this sash plane with makers mark "A.B.". If anyone is familiar with this please post or message me. Tried American Wooden Planes fifth and found nothing. If nothing thanks and carry on.


----------



## HokieKen

> Printed a prototype of the Buck Rodgers knob using Mike s measurements. This thing seems really small to me.
> 
> Edit:Here's the picture
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Lazyman


Wow man, that looks awesome. A lot cleaner than I would have thought ) I was going to post some juvenille comment about all the talk about Mos' cleavage giving you blue ball. But I'm better than that so I'm not going to bring it up.


----------



## Lazyman

And had you said something like that, Kenny, my response might be to reiterate that this thing is really small but I'm bigger than that.

I may try to sand and prime it with some primer-filler suitable for plastic and see if I can get some red paint to stick to it. Any thoughts on what kind of primer and paint I should use? Too bad I don't have any red filament on hand. If I could get someone to do a CAD drawing of the tote scales, I could print some of those too.


----------



## Lazyman

BTW, Here is a comparison to a 14C knob. I guess the difference is that front of the BR is much thicker than the tradition style planes so the knob doesn't have to be as tall.


----------



## BenDupre

> I may try to sand and prime it with some primer-filler suitable for plastic and see if I can get some red paint to stick to it. Any thoughts on what kind of primer and paint I should use? Too bad I don't have any red filament on hand. If I could get someone to do a CAD drawing of the tote scales, I could print some of those too.
> 
> - Lazyman


I thought you were going to use that to cast a mold.


----------



## HokieKen

He's actually printing me a mold too. The printed knob is plan B


----------



## Lazyman

I printed the knob while waiting for some more flexible (TPU) filament to arrive. The hope is that the more flexible filament will be easier to de-mold. It showed up while it was printing so I'll start the mold print today. It will probably take between 13-16 hours to print each half of the mold depending upon the infill settings I wind up with and assuming no problems with the filament. After a little research I found that you have to use a slower print speed with the flexible filament.

And while that is going on I may see if I can figure out how to make one on the CNC machine too … just because I've been wanting to try a 2-sided 3D carve.


----------



## Notw

This is awesome using the latest technology to 3D print and CNC carve a knob for a plane that is at least 60 years old.


----------



## HokieKen

How else would one approach such a problem in the 25th century?


----------



## rad457

> How else would one approach such a problem in the 25th century?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


I seem to remember a different version


----------



## Notw

I don't know, was Buck Rogers from the future? I've never seen the movie or the TV show


----------



## Johnny7

> I seem to remember a different version
> 
> - Andre


Me too!


----------



## RWE

1940's it seems.

Try YouTube if you are interested. Precedes me by a decade or more, but it was an old serial adventure series that had very low tech special effects, spaceships on strings sort of thing. Buster Crabbe was the star.

Original Buck Rogers


----------



## drsurfrat

I remember them both! The fizzle ships of Buster Crabbe (they used to have all-night marathons), and the bee-dee bee-dee of the 70's version


----------



## bandit571

Next we'll be talking about Flash Gordan? 









Boxes?


----------



## bandit571

Crowded parking lot…









Those handles for all the squares are resting on a Stanley No. 8, Type 7…









Above the No. 8…...a pair of Stanley No. 5, T-19s, and a Stanley No. 5-1/2, T-17…..


----------



## Karda

I didn't know Flash Gordon had a plane named after him


----------



## corelz125

This is the one I remember


----------



## theoldfart

^ My hero!


----------



## Notw

I'm with Corelz I do believe Duck Dodgers was from the 24-1/2 century


----------



## Bertha

I was never a Lee Valley guy b/c so butt ugly, but I'm coming around. THIS is a great little plane. The bevel up #1'ish size. With the proprietary steel, which I'm a believer in. It works really good for trimming dovetail overlap b/c you can literally trim one at a time. Adjustable mouth and can tune it to death as a smoother. Of course, you're smoothing an inch at a time, lol. It's on the pricey side, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy it.

Aside: that's a little mahogany display case I'm working on. Boring.


----------



## Mosquito

Cool Al, I have been tempted by that plane a few times now. One of those with a toothed iron would be nice for a pre-treatment before hammer veneering. I haven't done hammer veneering in a few years, which is ultimately why I haven't been tempted enough.


----------



## Lazyman

I need to stop being so cheap so that I can own some cool planes like that.


----------



## Lazyman

First half of the mold print is done. Only took 12 hours and 69 grams of filament.










Looks like Kenny's mold design and my positive design are almost identical


----------



## Mosquito

Oh, that's what you meant by mold designs lol I thought you meant you were going to make a knob to make a silicone mold from so I was confused why it needed to be more flexible, and 2 pieces lol


----------



## Mosquito

For anyone curious, I did decide to end up splitting the video in to two parts, a more general use and overview with my thoughts, and the more detailed deep dive into some of the aspects of its construction and what not. I'll have to shoot a new intro/outro for the second video, but the first one is rendered and uploading currently. Got to try out a bunch of new things that made the editing and the rendering take longer, but owas fun to try new things


----------



## DLK

Chris that was a *very nice video*. A couple of comments. You can resolve many of the registration issues that a Stanley router plane has by adding a an appropriate sized wooden base and adding an extra knob to it. And thus achieve the same functionality of having the cutter on the end. That is how I do it with my MF 77. I do like the depth stop and I may have to make one. You can always add a fence to the wooden base should you need one. I have never needed a fence.


----------



## Mosquito




----------



## Mosquito

> Chris that was a *very nice video*. A couple of comments. You can resolve many of the registration issues that a Stanley router plane has by adding a an appropriate sized wooden base and adding an extra knob to it. And thus achieve the same functionality of having the cutter on the end. That is how I do it with my MF 77. I do like the depth stop and I may have to make one. You can always add a fence to the wooden base should you need one. I have never needed a fence.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Thanks Don. Yeah, a base could emulate it, but then I've doubled the size of my plans too lol.

I haven't used a fence yet either, which is why I pulled the trigger on this version, didn't want to miss it while the money was there and they were available. Gives me time to think about whether I wished I had a fence too lol


----------



## DLK

I may look it to buying one too.


----------



## Lazyman

Not the right shade of red but but first coat looks ok. I found a primer that says it'll bind to plastics and even 2-part epoxy so we'll see how that works out.


----------



## DonBroussard

Nathan - Curious question. Did you print the knob with the bore, or did you print it solid then drill out the bore?


----------



## Lazyman

I printed it with the bore and counterbore so that the bolt head or nut can sit flush with the top. I think that the counter bore is about 1/4" deep if I remember correctly. I just sort of picked an arbitrary depth though I made the diameter about the same as a standard brass nut on a hand plane knob. I figured that Kenny can make his bolt or nut any size. Because the infill is only about 15-20% in sort of a cubic pattern, you really cannot drill it afterwards.

I am going to print a slightly larger one for Kenny so I figured I would experiment with painting this one. I sanded to 1000 grit mounted on the lathe, primed and sanded at 1000 again and then painted it farm implement red. After the paint cures, I'll give it a stress test to see if it can hold up to use on a plane.

BTW, If anyone else needs one, I'll be glad to print some more. It'll probably cost more to mail it than print it.


----------



## HokieKen

That looks awesome Nathan! Glad to know if I can't get a cast one done well that plan B is a go )


----------



## Bertha

This mosquito video thing is a new reason to live! I can't wait to dive into it. And I want that router plane. Does someone have a link to purchase one, or is it a one-off. I've been away lol.


----------



## theoldfart

Bertha, sold out this month more next month.

Look here


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice, Mos. Really enjoyed the viid, learned something too!


----------



## corelz125

Kenny no cleavage in the video what happen?


----------



## Mosquito

I asked, the wife vetoed it. She said no one wanted to see my hairy chest in one of her low cut shirts…


----------



## Lazyman

Great video Mos; however, I was tempted to give it a thumbs down because I am afraid watching it might cost me some money down the road.


----------



## Mosquito

hahaha, good thing you watched it while they were out of stock then  Just have to forget about it before they're back in stock


----------



## HokieKen

> Great video Mos; however, I was tempted to give it a thumbs down because I am afraid watching it might cost me some money down the road.
> 
> - Lazyman


So there was cleavage?


----------



## rad457

> Great video Mos; however, I was tempted to give it a thumbs down because I am afraid watching it might cost me some money down the road.
> 
> - Lazyman
> 
> So there was cleavage?
> 
> - HokieKen


Check the refection, Zoom in


----------



## corelz125

Even with the lack of cleavage it's a good video. I hardly fast forwarded through any of it. I will fast forward through a 2 min video. The a.d.d kicks in sometimes. All around it's done very well mos.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks  I just wish I would have gone in to shooting that one with the mindset of making it that short instead of having to chop everything up to make that one lol


----------



## DanKrager

Very helpful well done video, Mos. Good photography and clear descriptions. Reasonably concise, too.

One thing I noticed and will have to check out with my own Stanley 71 is that when trimming a "long" tenon you show how the 71 falls short because of the throat. IIRC the Stanley blade can be turned 90° and gain the support of the plate under the knob for such work. If the V tool is mounted, one may not have to turn the cutter. Granted, it doesn't seem to be quite as long as the 3500, but a false base could easily cure that and then some.

In my case, I have no need or want for the 3500, but I can see its advantage to someone who doesn't already have such a tool.

Thanks for the time and effort!
DanK


----------



## controlfreak

Still needs moobs.

Okay, I finally watched the video. Well done! They should have given you that one because I am sold.


----------



## Mosquito

Dan, that is true, and if you made a larger base, you'd end up with a bigger footprint overall. Could easily add fences and all kinds of stuff too. I'm probably going to try to make a base for mine that I can make-shift a fence with/for. As far as turning the iron sideways on a 71, I think that depends on what vintage it is, and if you've replaced irons. The original Stanley irons for my 71 only had a notch on one side, and not all the way around (Not my plane, just a reference). Using the Veritas replacement irons would let you, though, just not quite as wide


----------



## ac0rn

On the 71, or any for that matter, it is not really necessary to use the notch. The cutter can still be secured in place, and set your depth by eye.


----------



## Mosquito

Yes, my LN Small router plane has no depth adjustment on it either, and makes it relatively more fiddly. Could also just use a chisel freehand too, if you were desperate. There are tons of options to avoid buying something else if you try hard enough


----------



## Peteybadboy

Corlez ha on th A.d.d. and videos! I do that too

Mosquito that was a very good video on the router plane. Nicely done!

I just bought the LV large router plane. (Christmas present from my dawg)


----------



## Ocelot

You have an unusually thoughtful and generous dog, Petey.


----------



## bandit571

Hmm…notice anything amiss?









The 3/8" and the 1/4" cutters are MIA? Looked all over the shop for them…can't find them…..so, tonight, just order the Veritas 1/4" cutter…..we will see how it does….when it arrives…until then..









I'll keep this lid closed and latched!!.....


----------



## Ocelot

Are there any children who roam your shop?


----------



## Ocelot

No 7, type 10 arrived. The first bench plane I've bought in a couple of years, by my memory, except a household jack that I didn't have to do anything to.

Waiting for more Evapo-Rust to soak the base, but looking pretty good after a good scrubbing in the sink.


----------



## Ocelot

Reviewing at my eBay purchaces for the last 12 months, I see…
8 spokeshaves
2 80Ms
2 drawknives
Household jack
4 marking gauges
Several folding rulers and tape measures
A few hammers, hatchets and hewing hatchets
A dozen or so chisels
An early American plow plane
A Moseley sash fillister plane
A few odd plow irons
One little old gents saw with wooden miter box
And the just arrived no 7 and 71.

I forgot the record 043 and Stanley 50.
...and 4 Chinese diamond plates
...and 7 African blackwood turning blanks…

Ok. I should have everything now.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…
1: Stanley #45, T3
Pair of depth stops for the 45
Pair of long rods for the 45
#2 box of cutters
1 beading stop for the #45…

And now the 1/4" cutter for the Stanley 71-1/2…..

Along with a few rust hunt trophies….

Might just sit back a while….and wait for Yard Sale Season to open around here….


----------



## rad457

Ummm, lets not go there, shall we The first #46 has shown up and the second due tomorrow? 
The Lee Valley history depressed me when I saw how much some items have increased in price! The price of decent wood, all wood is just stupid , 2.8 bd/ft Ash 4/4 from the shorts bin $22.00?


----------



## Ocelot

The big problem is that the number of woodworking projects COMPLETED in the past 12 months is
... ZERO.


----------



## bandit571

Makes me wonder how many I've completed in the last year…..vs…..Daily Top Threes?


----------



## Mosquito

Andre, even framing lumber is ridiculous down here, so a 2×4 bench may as well be made from oak


----------



## HokieKen

Yep. I have one of these to make:









So I got started this weekend. Wasn't about to use good wood or spend time milling rough sawn stock. So went to lowes and got some pine boards and plywood. $160 later… ugh.


----------



## Notw

maybe i am slow, but is it two food bowls and one water bowls? or does your dog have multiple heads. Both my dogs have one food and one water bowl….i'm so confused


----------



## HokieKen

LOL, that was just an example off Etsy. Not sure what the deal is with that one. But the one I'm making for my son's house will only have 2 bowls but they wanted it big enough to hold a 50 lb bag of food inside.


----------



## Mosquito

maybe that person had 2 dogs, who get fed at the same time. My brother and his fiance both have dogs, and they have to get fed at the same time, and from separate bowls, or there will be fighting lol They can share water though


----------



## controlfreak

50 lb bag of food, this is why I have two Maltase that are 5 & 8 lbs. That is 50 lbs going in the front end and 50 lbs out the back end too.


----------



## HokieKen

Dogs are like kids. I like other people's.


----------



## bigblockyeti

> Ummm, lets not go there, shall we The first #46 has shown up and the second due tomorrow?
> The Lee Valley history depressed me when I saw how much some items have increased in price! The price of decent wood, all wood is just stupid , 2.8 bd/ft Ash 4/4 from the shorts bin $22.00?
> 
> - Andre


I always thought of WoodCraft as more of a wood museum than a retailer given what they charged for some stuff even 10 years ago. I've seen enough, I ordered a Wood-Mizer today, it should be ready in less than 5 years.


----------



## Mosquito

Alright… I'm going to finally start doing it… Anyone here looking for any Stanley Type 11c users? (3-8, with fractionals) Varying degrees of conditions across the board, no pictures yet as they're all up on high wall shelves at the moment, but can if there's any interest. Otherwise, I'll probably start listing them on facebook, craigslist or eBay within the month


----------



## BenDupre

MOS - PMd you


----------



## RWE

Mos:

I pm'ed you as well.


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, I did not PM you.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Neither did I.

There is one Type 11 5C in the shop and it's in regular rotation as jack plane extraordinaire. But that's the event of them. Now, if you had some T13 SW w/ decal bench planes…


----------



## HokieKen

FINALLY! Mos' is selling something and I have no interest in buying it


----------



## rad457

I actually talked myself out of a Sargent #409, have decided that the only 2 planes I will even look at will be the Sargent #514 or a Millers Falls #7! Well maybe a Stanley #62 just to see how it compares to the SW #62?
I did sell a Ruger 9mm today, does that count


----------



## Mosquito

Smitty I think I've only ever had 1 type 13 SW and it definitely did not have a decal lol

haha, what if I painted some parts of one of them Red Kenny? :-D

I also updated the original post to mention that they are Type 11 C's, they're all corrugated planes. Also, not many of them are restored to "like new" condition, and a handful aren't restored at all, so likely some work needed (none have been in service for probably at least 4 years now, except maybe the #5-1/2 and #3)


----------



## rad457

Sorry Smitty the one with a Decal T14, my T13 no decal


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> haha, what if I painted some parts of one of them Red Kenny? :-D
> ...
> 
> - Mosquito


I'll save you some work, just sell me that Buck Rogers smoother ;-) I even have a mold on the way to cast a knob for it!


----------



## Lazyman

Actually, sell it to me. I haven't actually put the mold in the mail yet.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Andre, I have a couple / three T14s that are SW too. Never went ocd to scrub to only t13s, but those are most by far.


----------



## Ocelot

I have a type 13 no 7. No decal. Tote and knob had been painted orange when I bought it and hang holes drilled in each end. I removed the orange paint of course


----------



## rad457

> I have a type 13 no 7. No decal. Tote and knob had been painted orange when I bought it and hang holes drilled in each end. I removed the orange paint of course
> 
> - Ocelot


An painted them Red?


----------



## bandit571

The only decal on any of my planes' totes….is a Craftsman Tools deacal….on a Millers Falls No. 8….

have plenty of T-11s, and a T-10, and a T-12….One of the T-11 wound up with a SW iron….might be a replacement?

Both of my Stanley No. 6s are Type 10s, The Stanley No. 7c is a T-9

Shop is an EOE, BTW…...Sargent, Stanley, Millers Falls, Marsch, Ohio Tool Co. and Sandusky Tool Co.


----------



## rad457

*Shop is an EOE, BTW……Sargent, Stanley, Millers Falls, Marsch, Ohio Tool Co. and Sandusky Tool Co.*

Never really paid much attention as too Type, just remembered one had a nice decal when I got it a few years back but she now has a PMV-11 iron and has seen some action 
An Thanks to Kenny I seem to have a bunch of dem M.F.s critters, and some L.V., L.N., Winchester, Sargent and even a Hoke from Germany?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Every once in awhile, a fleabay listing catches my eye for the wrong reason. Anybody need a cutter for a Stanley combo plane?










That's the whole description, too.


----------



## theoldfart

Nice carved handle on it too!

Probably a very knowledgable seller, he did call it a Stanley Combination after all.

Nice thing about mis identified tools is other's a chance you can pick it up for a lower price.


----------



## HokieKen

What plane is that sliding skate from? I can't place it.


----------



## drsurfrat

if you're not kidding, it's from a 55. if you are kidding, it's a special attachment to the miller's falls bench plane in which you drill and tap the handle to attach it, on the top.


----------



## HokieKen

LOL. I wasn't kidding. I'm still gonna buy it and mount it on one of my bench planes though ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Laundry Detail..









gave one plane a workout..









To get better glue joints…









Another jack needed some work done..









Chipbreaker needed tuned up, iron needed a refresh….and this thing needed cleaned up..









Underside view…yet..









It also has a Patent Number?...hmmmm.
Had a second item to sharpen..









A small, 3/4" wide chisel…

BTW, this is healing up..slowly..









Still hurts…

Numbers on the underside of the Lever cap…334A?


----------



## Mosquito

> LOL. I wasn't kidding. I'm still gonna buy it and mount it on one of my bench planes though ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


You know… thinking about it, something like this for a #46 sliding skate would be awesome… except instead moving diagonally so it moves downward, make it move only forward and back, so it can support the wider irons that aren't wide enough to contact the regular moving skate…


----------



## drsurfrat

Or bend the rods to match the skew angle. That would be funky, if the rods were treaded at an angle too, all would move in the same vector. the fence would also have to have the same angle, and wouldn't be centered on the cutter, tho it would be a big offset…


----------



## MikeJ70

Not the hand plane of my dreams, but I think it is still cool because it has the original box.









I picked it up from a local used tool dealer about 20 years ago and has pretty much just been sitting in the box in a garage cabinet. From what I can tell from oldtoolheaven.com it is a No 9 Type 2 (second production 1949 - 1953). Their value page puts it in the $25-65 range, but says it would be more with the original box. Anyone know how much more the box adds?


----------



## donwilwol

I think that range is low without the box. I think with the Box you could easily double it.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree with Don. In the current ebay market, that's more like a $50-70 plane. I'm not sure the box doubles it but it'll at least get you an extra $20.


----------



## MikeJ70

Thanks guys. Appreciate it.


----------



## Ocelot

My newly arrived Bailey no 7 type 10 has an iron 7 ¾ inches long. What were they originally?


----------



## HokieKen

Does anyone have a Millers Falls honing guide like this?









I've bid on many on Ebay over the past few years but they consistently sell for more than I will pay. But, it seems like an exceptionally good design and I've been curious why it's never been replicated. At least not that I've ever found…

The large thumbscrew tightens down to hold the iron or chisel like the Veritas Mk 1 (which I have and like). But where the Veritas has the cam for the roller to change to 3 different preset heights for adding micro bevels and such, the Millers Falls guide has the second, smaller thumbscrew that is threaded into the larger thumbscrew. Turning the smaller thumbscrew moves the cast piece where the blade is held up or down allowing fine-tuning of the bevel angle.

I have several honing guides so I hesitate to spend ~$50 on one of these. But, was curious if anyone had one and what your impressions are? My biggest concerns just from looking at pictures are (a) is there backlash/slop in the small thumbscrew that might let the angle change during sharpening and (b) with the cast part moving up and down on a bent steel frame, it seems like there would be some possible racking and that it would be hard to ensure that the platform was kept parallel to the roller.


----------



## Ocelot

Is this a no 1 iron and chipbreaker?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-VINTAGE-UNUSED-WOODWORKING-PLANE-IRON-STANLEY-Made-in-ENGLAND/113838152348?hash=item1a81485a9c:g:6FYAAOSwum9dQcuc


----------



## HokieKen

According to the listing, it's 1.7" wide Paul so it's either a #2 and the seller rounded up on the ruler or a #3 and the seller rounded down…


----------



## drsurfrat

Yea, probably a No3, 4.4 cm = 1.73"


----------



## Mosquito

Did they have Made in England #1s and #2s?


----------



## drsurfrat

Patrick Leach's site says No1's only made until 1943, No2's only til 1961


----------



## Ocelot

That guy must have huge hands, cause the blade looks pretty small to me.

So…. Never mind.


----------



## Ocelot

> My newly arrived Bailey no 7 type 10 has an iron 7 ¾ inches long. What were they originally?
> 
> - Ocelot


I've had a pretty good look around the web, and have found surprisingly little info on the length of plane irons. All Hock irons are 7 inches. New Stanley irons are 7½. That's all I've found.

Patrick Leach is silent on the question.


----------



## bandit571

These 2 were put to work, today…









Millers Falls No. 11, Type 2, and that Millers Falls No. 9, Type 4…..when done for the day…they were put away…









No chatter was heard…despite some strange grain…









Back is a bit sore….was a busy day..


----------



## HokieKen

The color is off a little bit but Nathan's experimental prototype still makes a fine placeholder until I get a permanent knob done. He also printed me another knob that I can try to get a better color match on and a mold that I am going to try pouring some dyed resin in to make one. Either way, I think Buck Rogers would approve of Nathan's efforts with the modern technology


----------



## Mosquito

I almost bet if you polished up the existing plasticwares, they might come back to a similar color


----------



## HokieKen

I've read a but about the tennite and the concensus is to scrub it the best you can with mineral spirits and live with it. Apparently it fades through at a pretty equal rate so polishing past the surface just yields more faded plastic. Mine doesn't have any cracking or crazing though so I'm pretty happy about that. I definitely plan to clean the tote up before I attempt a final color match though.

If I make an extra knob, your gonna sell me your smoother, right? Only seems fair…


----------



## HokieKen

Is the area under the frog/tote always unpainted?


----------



## Mosquito

Truthfully if the plane was one that I had bought, I probably would sell it to you, but it was given to me by a friend (along with a couple other tools) and used to be his grandfathers, so it might be a while before I'd feel ok selling it


----------



## HokieKen

That's alright. Your prices are too high anyway ;-p


----------



## Lazyman

That doesn't look half bad. The red prototype is a pretty lightweight print so the other one I sent should be much stronger-thicker walls and higher infill. Anyway, a fun little diversion.

I think that cherry red might have been a better match than the farm implement red but Home depot lighting and old internet pictures on my phone make it hard to pick a color without one in hand. I wonder if you put a smidge of black dye into some sort of clear topcoat whether that would tone down the red? You might have to mix your own paint colors to get a better match. Or, just draw up another plan for the tote handle and we can get some red filament and print a matching set. Since the tote is a single piece it may be a challenging thing to print or at least have a lot of supports to clean up, not to mention a difficult design to duplicate.


----------



## HokieKen

So that area is always unpainted. I found one photo that it was painted in but then several where it wasn't. Just seems odd that they would leave it unpainted completely. I guess it was just more efficient to skip the whole section rather than mask off machined faces.

I stripped the plane down last night and cleaned the big pieces up. Overall it's in very nice shape. I'm a little disappointed that the machining on the pads behind the mouth where the frog sits is pretty rough and the frog has a little rock to it when I sit it on there. So I guess I'll be doing some dye-printing and filing to rectify that.

The depth adjuster is brilliant on this thing. It takes virtually all of the backlash out of the equation. And the lateral adjuster is right and tight too. I wish the depth adjust and lateral were that solid on all of my planes!

There was a good bit of surface rust but an x-fine scotchbrite pad and some wd40 took it off and polished it up nicely in pretty short order. There is one spot on the nose where there is significant rust and pitting that won't polish out and it's where the casting is hollow so I don't want to sand back too deep. So I think I'll spot apply some naval jelly and live with it. I don't think this plane saw much use at all. There is no scratches, even very light ones on the sole and there wasn't a single chip or any dust at all underneath the frog where I've read it likes to gather over time. Makes me wonder, with such a lightly used plane, what the hell happened to the knob?

The enamel is 100% and is in good shape so I will be leaving it. But, on the frog there are some sections with some black marks of some sort that won't come off with soap and water or mineral spirits. I don't want to use any abrasives because I want to preserve the enamel. I may try some green compound on a buffing wheel. Anybody got suggestions on how to try to remove it?

Pictures will be forthcoming as I progress. I need to give the lever cap a light polish and fix the frog seating issue and sharpen the iron and check the fit with the cap iron. Then it'll be down to making a new knob 



> That doesn t look half bad. The red prototype is a pretty lightweight print so the other one I sent should be much stronger-thicker walls and higher infill. Anyway, a fun little diversion.
> 
> I think that cherry red might have been a better match than the farm implement red but Home depot lighting and old internet pictures on my phone make it hard to pick a color without one in hand. I wonder if you put a smidge of black dye into some sort of clear topcoat whether that would tone down the red? You might have to mix your own paint colors to get a better match. Or, just draw up another plan for the tote handle and we can get some red filament and print a matching set. Since the tote is a single piece it may be a challenging thing to print or at least have a lot of supports to clean up, not to mention a difficult design to duplicate.
> 
> - Lazyman


My tote is in great shape and cleaned up quite nicely. It has one little spot with some black that I'm going to see if I can polish out but otherwise, I'm really happy with it. So I don't want to replace it  I have a pretty broad selection of model paints and an airbrush so I'm pretty sure I can get a good color match to paint the other one you printed for me if I can't mix up a good match with pigments in resin. We'll find out soon


----------



## RWE

There is no scratches, even very light ones on the sole and there wasn't a single chip or any dust at all underneath the frog where I've read it likes to gather over time. Makes me wonder, with such a lightly used plane, what the hell happened to the knob?

Maybe the front knob was broken off or went missing early on in the plane's existence, hence it was never or rarely used??


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Great job on that knob, Nathan!

And Kenny, I'm almost tempted to look for Buck Rogers / MF planes now. There have been two Jocks besides you (that I recall) with them, that were posted here. I avoided those temptations, now the siren call is back…


----------



## HokieKen

Here's one to get you started Smitty ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I said almost.

(That's a pretty nice example)


----------



## bandit571

Something more for Kenny to drool…









No. 100, No. 179, and No. 1950….plus..









The smaller of the two eggbeaters…..note that red colour….

Like a Marine…paint it red, they will fall in love…..


----------



## HokieKen

LOL. I've been trying to decide if I want the full gamut of Buck Rogers tools now Bandit. I have the #100 push drill and now the jack plane. Have Plan'r Files and eggbeaters on my watchlist already looking for the right bargain to come along… Maybe I'll add the brace and the hacksaw to the list once I get those and the 709 smoother…


----------



## Mosquito

Only if you build a retro-future tool cabinet for them Kenny


----------



## HokieKen

I would definitely build them their own till or some sort of display. No idea where the hell I would put it but it would be a necessity


----------



## Notw

> Here s one to get you started Smitty ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Wow what a horrible enabler, even provides a link!


----------



## drsurfrat

> I've read a bit about the tennite and the concensus is to scrub it the best you can with mineral spirits and live with it. Apparently it fades through at a pretty equal rate so polishing past the surface just yields more faded plastic. Mine doesn't have any cracking or crazing though so I'm pretty happy about that. I definitely plan to clean the tote up before I attempt a final color match though.
> - HokieKen


From what I can see, the original consisteny of the red is, well, inconsistent. I wouldn't worry too much about exact color matching. Wait, no LJ I've seen will let that slide.


----------



## drsurfrat

> I would definitely build them their own till or some sort of display. No idea where the hell I would put it but it would be a necessity
> 
> - HokieKen


Oooo, quarter round T-slot aluminum extrusion from Bosch / 80-20 / McMasterCarr with lexan doors and little red tennite door handles.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't require matching totes/knobs across all my planes but I do require that the ones on each plane match reasonably well. I was thinking more along the lines of some gas struts on a lambo door with a fog machine that sprays a little bit whenever it's opened  Fog requires moisture though so maybe that's not such a great idea. I have some red t-track. Hmmmm.


----------



## bandit571

Don't forget the set of Permaloid Chisels, too…...









Have a "Starter Set" of a 1/2" and a 3/4"....









As I prefer handles made of wood…


----------



## bigblockyeti

How bout a stainless Delorean door, keep the gas struts add a zero water fog backlit with a red red neon tube?


----------



## rad457

I'm thinking Barber pole stripes?


----------



## HokieKen

Permaloid is a whole 'nuther animal Bandit. The 409 plane and Parson's brace are pretty steep so I'm probably not going to go down that road. I would like a set of the chisels though just because they're supposed to be good chisels.

That's sounding 'bout right Yeti  For some reason, the barber pole sounds right too Andre…


----------



## Lazyman

I was thinking some sort of mid-century modern style cabinet.


----------



## Johnny7

*HK*

This is what you want for a cabinet










This guy built his own from wood!
http://bringbackthehandtools.blogspot.com/2018/05/airlight-telephone-booth-cabinet.html


----------



## Lazyman

This is probably more Kenny's speed. A lot more room on the inside too.


----------



## HokieKen

Hmmm. The phone booth is a cool idea. If I made a TARDIS though, it would require a sonic screwdriver collection and I don't need one of those…


----------



## corelz125

I have a couple of those chisels but most of the logo is worn off.


----------



## theoldfart

^ flagged


----------



## BenDupre

As Patrick's Blood and Gore says: "If you have more money than brains…"










The alpha and the omega.. the white elephant and the purple squirrel.. no 1 and 196. Go for it!


----------



## HokieKen

> As Patrick's Blood and Gore says: "If you have more money than brains…"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The alpha and the omega.. the white elephant and the purple squirrel.. no 1 and 196. Go for it!
> 
> - BenDupre


Well, $10 probably bumps me over that hill. But even I don't need to cut curved rabbets with a hand plane. Or do I? Money's cheap right now, maybe I'll get a home equity line just in case.


----------



## bigblockyeti

> Well, $10 probably bumps me over that hill. But even I don t need to cut curved rabbets with a hand plane. Or do I? Money's worthless right now, maybe we'll all need a home equity line just to survive.
> 
> - HokieKen


Fixed it for ya!


----------



## Ocelot

Poor guy has to sell his prize planes just to buy… what?


----------



## rad457

> Poor guy has to sell his prize planes just to buy… what?
> 
> - Ocelot


Maybe new girlfriend, Wife #2?


----------



## bandit571

Or…pay for the ex-wife?

Stanley 45 is set up..









Already gave it a run…









Next reset will involve the LONGER rods….


----------



## HokieKen

Coincidence or inverted triangle BFFs?


----------



## Notw

> Coincidence or inverted triangle BFFs?
> 
> - HokieKen


Lazy graphic designers?
LOL


----------



## BenDupre

Ken, if you were looking for a Buck Rogers brace, i think there's one on FB marketplace.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1135097156929958/


----------



## HokieKen

I'll probably pick one up eventually. That listing is 1200 miles away so I guess I'll skip that one ;-) They're plentiful on Ebay though.


----------



## bandit571

happen to know where a No. 1950 Brace is…...


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, I saw yours Bandit  Is it a good user tool? I'll probably decide to pick one up but if it's a crappy tool, I'll skip it.

Got the 714 cleaned up. Wish I could scrub the dark spots off the paint a little better but nothing I tried removed it. Gonna leave it be since the enamel is 100% though.


















There are some spots in the nickel plating on the lever cap that I don't like but it's 100% and polished up pretty good so I'm letting it be too.

Had to file the bottom of the frog to get it to seat solidly and the back of the iron needed flattening. The chipbreaker had to be ground to a knife edge and I had to put a little bend in it to make it springy. But, it was a nice, light-tight fit after the iron was flattened. I still have to lap the sole. I wasn't going to but the mouth is a bad high spot. It's gonna require quite a lot of removal I'm afraid. It may end up on my mill with a flycutter.

I've read complaints about these planes not being good for "fine" woodworking because the mouth is too wide and the frog lacks adjustability. I'm calling BS. I started with the frog as far forward as I could get it without tbe rear screw preventing the plastic tote from sliding all the way on. When I went to set the blade, it hit the front of the mouth. So I'm not sure what the complaint is. I will admit that it's kind of a pain to adjust the frog position because you have to slide the handle up on the tote to access the rear screw which requires removing the Chicago screws that hold it in place. I will also say that the three frog screws look identical but the head on one is about .020" smaller in diameter. If the screw with the smaller head isn't used at the rear, the handle may hit it and limit the adjustability slightly. But that would be easily remedied by grinding the head down a touch or grinding a little clearance inside the handle. Curious though if anyone else on here has had an issue with the frog not having enough adjustability?

Now it's down to getting a permanent knob made and getting the sole flattened


----------



## RWE

Looks very nice. I always have doubts about whether to take the "patina" off of a plane or leave it. I like the older used look if it is not all messed up with the jappaning (sp?).

However, the Buck Rodgers looks good and should be all cleaned up, shining like a space ship. Very cool.


----------



## WillliamMSP

If I were going to make a knob for it, I'd be tempted to try a short one to preserve some of that hotrod look that it has without. I know that it wouldn't be "correct," but I'm a loner Dottie - a rebel.


----------



## HokieKen

Actually when I was making some shavings, I found it pretty comfortable without the knob. The solid nose does make a pretty nice spot to rest your palm.

Maybe that's why the knobs go missing on so many of these? There's another one on Ebay right now that's missing its knob.


----------



## bandit571

Have used that #1950 a few times….been running a countersink bit in it, no complaints….for a tool that is "only" 3 years older than me…


----------



## Notw

It looks very sleek and futuristic without the knob.


----------



## Lazyman

Those tote scales cleaned up nicely.


----------



## HokieKen

Got some test samples of resin curing. Trying to dial in the recipe for a color match with the tote to cast a knob with.


----------



## drsurfrat

Looks a bit transparent. Is there an opaque white resin to start with? The tennite seems to have that kind of base material.


----------



## HokieKen

Yes there is Mike. I have some white pigments that I can mix into this to try if the dye isn't sufficient to make it opaque. I may end up having to buy different resin though.


----------



## Mosquito

It looks good Kenny

Anyone who says a tight mouth is required to get a fine cut needs to practice more 

This one does this:



















And this one does this on curly maple no less:



















And for the "But it's the surface that matters" crowd


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> Looks a bit transparent. Is there an opaque white resin to start with? The tennite seems to have that kind of base material. - drsurfrat


Instead of adding white via titanium dioxide pigment, add a little opaque filler. 
Fumed silica particles are so small they make resin opaque. West Systems sells Colliodal silca that will do same thing. Only need 1-2% by weight to turn clear resin to cloudy. This will shift color lighter, but not as much as pigment. Note that if you use too much, the viscosity goes up and not as mold friendly. Nice thing about silica is it tends to slump easy, and conforms to mold with enough settling time even with large amounts.

Cheers!


----------



## Ocelot

Nice shavings, Mos! And nice surface too!

Don't need no stinkin Buck Rodgers


----------



## HokieKen

Well the samples last night turned out too dark in color and were still too translucent. So I'll have to try adding in some pigment tonight and try again.

CK - thanks for the recommendation. But I'm trying to get this done with what I have on hand. I use this stuff so rarely that I want to try to use it up rather than buying more  Plus, if I invest too much in making a knob, I may as well just buy a knob…


----------



## HokieKen

> It looks good Kenny
> 
> Anyone who says a tight mouth is required to get a fine cut needs to practice more
> ...
> 
> - Mosquito


I totally agree Mos'. I'm not a stickler for a tight mouth, even on a smoother. I get much better results by focusing on the chipbreaker. Of course that's irrelevant to your block plane and woodie  That was just one of the few complaints I read about these planes so I decided to explore while I had it apart anyway. In the end, I went back to my standard MO and positioned the frog so that the iron bed was planar with the ramp in the mouth.

Maybe I'll close it up on the Buck Rogers smooth plane that is being delivered today. I let Mike con me into buying this lot from him.



> From what I can see, the original consisteny of the red is, well, inconsistent. I wouldn t worry too much about exact color matching. Wait, no LJ I ve seen will let that slide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - drsurfrat


I think he might be as bad as you ;-p


----------



## Mosquito

Haha nice! Gonna have to get that mill up and running again to pay for all the enabling around here


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I actually owe Mike a couple of 46 cutters in exchange for a couple of 46 cutters he sent me a while back. I also owe Nathan a couple for the 3D printing he did for me. Nevermind the stuff I owe you and Corelz. I'm gonna have to get that thing to work or y'all are going to quit "paying" me in advance ;-p


----------



## HokieKen

Here I had gotten all excited about the stuff coming from Mike that I completely forgot I had bid on this last week. Won this morning


----------



## RWE

You are going to have to change your cape to a space suit.


----------



## rad457

> Here I had gotten all excited about the stuff coming from Mike that I completely forgot I had bid on this last week. Won this morning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


LOL! I have a couple of those on my watch list, what did that one go for?


----------



## HokieKen

$20.50 Andre.


----------



## bandit571

Kenny got ripped off….as this was just..$5….


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah but I wanted one with red letters that I didn't have to paint Bandit


----------



## rad457

> Yeah but I wanted one with red letters that I didn t have to paint Bandit
> 
> - HokieKen


AWWWW! Need Red Letters! See one with 7 bits for $44.00 US but may not ship to Canada, My lucky day
Hey what ya doing on Fee-Bay thought you had some #46 blades to make ?


----------



## bandit571

When did Millers Falls switch to red or black lettering? Careful with the cap….it is a FRICTION fit….no threads.

And..check the grease in the gear box….been known to go…nasty. Yes, grease, there isn't any oiler holes.

BTW….have also picked a Millers Falls No. 77…









Ah, but wait, there is more…









It has an enclosed gear box, too…


----------



## HokieKen

Oh yeah, I owe Andre a set of 46 blades too  Don't worry, I have it wrote down Andre, I won't forget when I look at my list instead of rely on my memory!


----------



## HokieKen

I dunno when the switch was on the letters Bandit. I just know some have red and some have black. And mine takes oil not grease. It has OIL stamped on the screw:









I thought they all did? I'm pretty sure there's no hole though, you have to remove the screw to add oil.


----------



## HokieKen

Also, at least some of them have the handle threaded. Not sure about mine until I get it.


----------



## bandit571

The last 1" on my handle, is the friction fit….allows access to the pile of drill bits…End of the handle is tapered a bit differently than that one. No "OIL" hole on mine, either…gear box was filled with a yellowish grease.

may have to start a "Type" study on these drills?


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah because I've also seen some that have the end of the handle open like you're talking about but they were threaded too. I haven't been able to find any kind of type studies on the drills. IIRC they were only in production for about 10 years so I doubt if there are many variations but there are obviously at least a couple.

Now that you mention it, I see the difference in the taper at the end. Mine appears to have the same taper as yours so now I'm curious to see if the end is threaded or friction fit.


----------



## Mosquito

*snap* "Neither, Type 4" :-D


----------



## HokieKen

According to the marketing literature, the tennite is "unbreakable" so if it does snap, I'm filing a warranty claim with Millers Falls!


----------



## bandit571

Good luck with that…

My mistake..thar be threads in thar..









And some funny looking drill points, too

tapered end?









And, no hole..


----------



## HokieKen

Fat Man and Little Boy together at last 









Thanks Mike! The smoother is complete and without any damage. Even the plastic is in good shape. I'll tear it down and polish everything up but it definitely won't require any significant work. Now I just have to get a knob done for Fat Man…

Yesterday's samples came out too dark as well. Turned out the only white pigment I had was a metallic pearl so in addition to making it opaque, it made it sparkly. Turns out though that the dye alone is opaque enough when there's enough like these samples in the cups. Just not sure if I'm gonna be able to get the color just right. These are both definitely too dark.


----------



## HokieKen

BTW Bandit, some mineral spirits and a toothbrush works wonders with getting that white waxy buildup out of the grooves in the Tennite like on your eggbeater handle. Eventually it's going to come back but you can make it pretty for a while. Soap and water didn't do the trick but MS did in short order and doesn't cause any kind of crazing or discoloration with the tennite. I read that online but tested on the inside of my tote before doing it to the visible part


----------



## Notw

Saw this on an auction site, not a lever cap I am familiar with


----------



## controlfreak

Looks like a conduit strap


----------



## drsurfrat

> Fat Man and Little Boy together at last
> Thanks Mike! The smoother is complete and without any damage. Even the plastic is in good shape. I ll tear it down and polish everything up but it definitely won t require any significant work. Now I just have to get a knob done for Fat Man…
> - HokieKen


I am glad it found its true home. And of course I like your atomic bomb-atomic age reference; consistency in this universe.


----------



## bandit571

> Saw this on an auction site, not a lever cap I am familiar with
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Notw


Hmm, I smell a stamped steel frog…aka Toad…..Bottle cap adjuster….wouldn't even make a good anchor for a canoe…..


----------



## corelz125

The one good thing about those Pextos that had nice thick heavy base. Everything else sucks


----------



## HokieKen

Well dang. I'm tempted to paint this one. And if I paint this one, I'm gonna want to paint Fat Man too.


















It's not terrible or anything, just a little dingy at the front and on the frog and there are some white paint splatters on the back.


----------



## HokieKen

Think I may have a color match too


----------



## drsurfrat

Kenny you're doin' that jack plane proud.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm trying Mike! I'm guessing the smoother wasn't a regular user for you. The chipbreaker was set ahead of the cutting edge ;-)


----------



## drsurfrat

O I didn't touch it. Too cool for school. That was only a looker for me, hence the comment that I am glad it found its true home.


----------



## HokieKen

I figured as much. Tbe iron hadn't been used much and the back had never been flattened. The bevel had been sharpened freehand and there are some signs of wear on the sole but all in all, it's in remarkably good shape. The plastic doesn't even have the white waxy substance on it!


----------



## bandit571

The "White Wax" is wax, that is in the plastic. Anti-oxidant…..same wax they use in Rubber hose, rubber tires, and the like. 22years of making rubber compounds for rubber hoses…..mostly as a "Compounder".

Millers Falls No. 14 was working, today..









Jointing some drawer sides of Ash…









Flattening drawer parts of Ash…..


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, the plasticizer (basically a solvent that makes resins more elastic) that the Eastman company used in red tennite #2 turned out to be unstable and is slowly breaking down. I wonder if maybe the issue was discovered and resolved at some point during these tool's production life? Some look like they have a coat of white paint on them but others look nearly pristine.

The resin sample I mixed yesterday cured pretty close on color but wasn't as opaque as the darker samples. But my impatience is getting the best of me so I'm going to pour a knob today anyway ;-) The mold should be reuseable so if necessary I can buy an opaque resin and some different pigments. Or maybe just paint the printed one that Nathan sent me and get on with life…


----------



## Lazyman

I'd do all of the above Kenny. Belt and suspenders. If nothing else, you need to cast more than one just to see how well the mold holds up. You can sell any you don't use as reproductions or use it them the next time there is a plane swap, which might be the next swap, BTW for anyone interested.


----------



## HokieKen

I spent today's shop time tearing the head down on my mill and (hopefully) fixing the problem with it. So I'll be working on some 46 blades in the next week or so. Then spent a couple of hours on the bikes enjoying the weather and now I'm in the office… Will hopefully get a knob poured either tonight or in the morning.

I picked up a keyhole saw set off Ebay today that some consider one of the Buck Rogers tools. I'm not sure what my "criteria" are for being classified as Buck Rogers but this set was cheap and had all 3 of the original blades so we'll see if it stays or goes back on Ebay


----------



## HokieKen

My mill repair seems to have been effective. And better yet, free  Got the edge bevels milled on all these 46 blades without a hiccup )


----------



## HokieKen

First cast knob was mostly successful  I just used paste wax as a release agent to prevent the epoxy from sticking to the 3D printed mold. Surprisingly, I didn't even have to pry the mold halves apart, they separated easily by hand.









The mold design worked pretty much exactly as hoped. I didn't find any air pockets except in the reservoir at the bottom which is fine because that just gets cut away. I had to use a screwdriver to pop the casting out of the mold but the paste wax worked very well. The mold is definitely good for more pours 









Unfortunately, the color combination is a loser. It's still a shade or two too dark:









and still a bit too translucent:









But, I consider it a successful endeavor! Now I can use this one to see how machining and sanding/polishing works out. I'm a little hesitant to spend $20-30 for some opaque resin since whatever I don't use will most likely sit on my shelf and go bad before I get it used. But, maybe I could cast some extras and sell them on Ebay to recoup my investment?

The downside to that is some unscrupulous sellers may try to put them on planes and sell them as original. Maybe if I put a knurled ring around the base or added a second groove or something? I've seen two other planes listed that were missing the knob just since I bought this one so I imagine there are enough out there that I could sell any extras I make.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Is that reservoir sufficiently solid enough to use as a clamping surface and reference for filling the counter-hole for the retaining bolt's head?


----------



## HokieKen

Kent, my plan is to cut at the blue lines:









Then I can mount between centers to sand and polish it. Then I'll chuck it up using the boss below the knob and machine the boss off the top and drill and counterbore it and finally cut the boss off the bottom. That's the plan at least. I'll use this one to do all that to see how the resin holds up and handles it


----------



## Lazyman

That worked out pretty well Kenny. It looks like it released perfectly. What about a filler to make it opaque? I read that chalk (calcium carbonate) and talc can be used for example. White might lighten the color some too.

If you decide to sell some of them, maybe just make sure you add a maker's mark so anyone down the line knows it's a reproduction if they get resold someday.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Kenny - that sounds like a good plan for someone with a lathe. Not being able to use one, my brain doesn't always include them when it's trying to figure out how to do something.


----------



## Lazyman

I thought about making the mold so that it could hold a bolt while you poured it but I was afraid that it might restrict the resin flowing in smoothly, especially if you do something at the top to hold it centered.


----------



## HokieKen

I thought about that too Nathan. Could do it if you put the pouring cup on one of the faces so you pour perpendicular to the axes of the knob rather than with it. But then you have to have vents coming off the knob itself and that could be messy for cleanup so I figured it was safer to do it this way.


----------



## Lazyman

It's best not to argue with the engineering department unless they really screw it up.


----------



## HokieKen

> It's best not to argue with the engineering department unless they really screw it up.
> 
> - Lazyman


Tell my wife that…

I hadn't thought about adding chalk to make the mixture opaque. That might just do the trick! I have about enough resin left to make a small sample and pour one more knob I think. Might as well experiment with it


----------



## Lazyman

Also best not to argue with with the wife. Better to just ignore.


----------



## bandit571

Selective hearing?

Junior got in a bit of work yesterday…









back of the drawer bottom was a tad too long…we fix…









Top of the drawer needed leveled, all around…Millers Falls No. 11 seems to be the right size….Type 2? Type 3?


----------



## HokieKen

Can't tell from the pics Bandit but if the adjuster nut is brass, type 2. Steel - type 3.


----------



## bandit571

Brass…Red frog, of course…Pre-War?


----------



## HokieKen

Don't think there's any way to know for sure whether it was pre-war or post war. AFAIK, they were identical - brass hardware, Cocobolo knob/tote and red paint in the recess on the lever cap.


----------



## drsurfrat

If you already know what you are doing, forgive me.

Pigments can be tricky. At least when I was studying them, I was surprised that you needed a lot less than I thought. This article on pigment loading says between 15-30% by weight (TiO2 is 4x density of most resins, and chalk will be about half of that.)

Structurally, you want the powder, whatever it is, to be as fine as you can get it, and obviously as well dispersed as you can mix. Maybe even porter-and-pestle the mixed resin to break up clumps.

One last thing (that you also know), chalk will introduce a lot of air, so degassing would step up in importance.


----------



## Ocelot

The Bailey no 7 type 10 that I recently bought has been sharpened now… Along with 2 other planes that I've had for years but never sharpened.


----------



## Ocelot

I know y'all are excited and relieved to hear that news.

Now if I had finished a project, that would have been real news.

Oh, and 2 drawknives sharp too.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't know much about it at all Mike. Per my usual MO, I'm just kinda winging it and hoping something good falls out in the end ;-) I do know that it takes a lot less pigment than you would think. For that knob, I mixed 90 ml of resin and only 8 drops of food dye. And based on that one, I probably only need about 5 drops. I ordered some opaque dyes today to try a drop of white mixed in with some red and see how that does.


----------



## drsurfrat

I think, if you want opaque, you need a pigment (Nathan's chalk). There is a technical difference between dye and pigment, and the term 'opaque dye' doesn't sound right. This is a risky statement, but either it's a pigment called a dye and will need higher amounts, or its a dye for opaques resins, and won't turn yours opaque. It may be about the millionth time I was wrong, so please let me know how it goes.


----------



## HokieKen

It's actually pigment dissolved (or maybe just suspended?) in alcohol if
I understand correctly. Again, I've done embarrassingly little research on this. I'd probably be ashamed if I could feel shame. Given enough time, a monkey will type Shakespeare, right?


----------



## Pimzedd

For what it is worth. I used to buy colorants for polyester resin. For opaque, I bought pigments. For transparent, I bought dye. Someone mentioned fumed silica. I think that is what I bought as a filler/thickener; i bought Cab-0-syl. It did make the resin an opaque light grey.


----------



## Mosquito

> The Bailey no 7 type 10 that I recently bought has been sharpened now… Along with 2 other planes that I ve had for years but never sharpened.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Ocelot


Always feels good to get some stuff sharpened up


----------



## KentInOttawa

I tripped across this interesting little one today.










Notice that it says Made in Canada on the box. Up until today, I thought that Union was an Ohio-based company. Thanks to Don W's site, I now know that Stanley owned Union from 1920-1957, so I'm guessing that this was made in that timeframe at the Roxton Pond facilities.

Live and learn.


----------



## rad457

Think I have a Millers falls #5 that looks Identical?


----------



## donwilwol

I had to flatten a maple slab yesterday. Took the 410 for a spin


----------



## HokieKen

Those are some cool looking ribbons peeling off there Don


----------



## HokieKen

Just a reminder for anyone who may have missed this or forgotten since originally posted back in January. We have 8 folks signed up already. Anyone else that wants in, shoot me your info at the e-mail address!



> Looks like some interest for the HPOYD Secret Santa 2021
> 
> I propose the following:
> 
> 
> "Registration" will be open through March. Register by shooting me an e-mail at [email protected] that contains your LJ username, your real name, and your mailing address. Also let me know if you ARE NOT willing to ship to Canada. I'll send out name assignments first week of April.
> Secret Santa will only be open to members in North America (US and Canada). Shipping and customs can get very convoluted and expensive going overseas unfortunately.
> Rules as follows:
> Spending cap of $40 USD (Canadians use the current exchange rate when you purchase your plane). Any shipping costs to get the plane and to send the plane to your recipient are your responsibility and are outside of the spending cap. $40 has to cover the full package though. Any replacement parts etc. must be included. In other words do not spend more than $40 excluding shipping. If you have replacement parts on-hand, you must include them in your spending at a reasonable market price.
> If you already possess a plane you would like to send instead of buying another, that is perfectly fine. If that's the case though, you should be able to remember how much you paid for it and know it was less than $40. If you don't know what you paid for it, you should be confident that if you were to shop for the same plane on Ebay etc. you would be able to purchase another for $40.
> You can send any plane (or planes) you wish but it must be a plane or directly plane-related. A jointer fence or shooting board or set of cutters for a combination plane are types of things I would consider plane-related. As far as defining what is a plane, I'll leave it up to each person to decide. Cabinet scrapers? Spokeshaves? I think those qualify. But you can decide for yourself.
> The plane you send doesn't have to be complete but does have to be usable in the condition you send it in. You can send a fillester plane that's missing depth stops and the fence because it can be used as a shoulder plane. You can't send a fillester plane without a blade though.
> You don't have to consider your time or consumables in your spending (but certainly can if you wish). So if you buy a crusty but complete vintage plane for $40 then spend 6 hours, a few sheets of sandpaper and a rattle can of enamel rehabbing it, you've still met the $40 spending cap. If you spend $40 on a vintage plane and then pay Don W or Sansoo to rehab it for you though, you're a damn cheater ;-)
> Your plane should be shipped to your recipient sometime after Thanksgiving but in time to arrive before Christmas. This will make sure that everyone receives their gift around the same time.
> #When you receive a plane in the mail, post some pictures here for the rest of us to see and tell us who sent it to you.
> If you sign up, don't forget you signed up ;-) If for some reason you wish to drop out, please inform me ASAP because it will require re-shuffling some names around. So just don't drop out.
> 
> 
> 
> So that's what I'm thinking. It's definitely a democracy so if you have any better suggestions/ammendments/revisions I'm all ears!
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## theoldfart

I signed up, right?


----------



## Mosquito

and I think I was "signed up" as well right? (I think that's what happened, I was told I was signed up )

I was trying to buy some stuff for it already, but was outbit and it went outside our range lol


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, got you down Kev.


----------



## HokieKen

Mos, I didn't have you on the list officially but if you're confirming, I'll put you on it. I was probably going to anyway but it's easier if you don't fight it ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

lol yeah, go ahead and put me down; in pen this time


----------



## HokieKen

Dammit. Now I have ink on my monitor.


----------



## Mosquito

and forever I shall be immortalized 

Or, alternatively, I know a guy who could sell you a monitor or two, as is tradition :-D


----------



## HokieKen

Well… immortalized forever or until my 10-year-old Samsung monitor craps out or is antiquated. Whichever comes first. And actually, monitors are one thing I don't need. You could probably talk me into the stuff upstream of them though ;-)


----------



## drsurfrat

I'm in, too. This is different than the one Dave is starting, right? 
This is the forty buck special for the end of the year (?), and Dave P's you'll have to actually make one, coming up next…

Right?


----------



## theoldfart

Sounds right to me but then again I never pay attention.

Age related attention span issues I guess


----------



## HokieKen

Yes Mike, two different things 

For those that don't follow the LJ swaps, the next one (not yet posted) will be a plane swap.


----------



## bandit571

I think I'm in the $40 swap….seem to remember something about that…..when is the Shipping Date? And to whom…


----------



## RWE

Hokie:

Can you rig the swap so I get to receive Bandit's plane. The man always gets the most bang for the buck.


----------



## Peteybadboy

My Dawg bought me this. I thing he used my superbowl pool winnings.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep Bandit, I've got you down. It is a "secret santa" so I figure we'll ship somewhere around Thanksgiving. Given the USPS performance this past Christmas though, maybe we should shoot more for Halloween to be safe… I'll wait another month or so to make sure everybody who wants to sign up, does. Then I'll pull names out of the hat and pass em out.

We'll see RWE. I'll use a spreadsheet function to assign names at random. But if anyone wants to offer bribes, I might be able to put a finger on the scale ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

I'm jealous Petey!


----------



## RWE

I can send the bribe, as soon as I get Bandit's plane. What you can do is split it with him to keep him motivated. That should work out very well.


----------



## HokieKen

I dunno, I might should give Bandit my name. He has lots of Millers Falls planes. Hmmmm


----------



## RWE

Do that and I will nominate you to congress. That has all the earmarks of a great politician. I can see the ads now. You can make campaign appearances wearing the cape. I believe that you could win. Millers Falls vintage tools for all, just need a small tax increase.


----------



## Peteybadboy

Hokie,

I plan to use it to build a traditional Rubio maybe style bench.

I have been reading along. You guys know your stuff. I have a 45 I hope to have you "opine" on when I get all the pictures together. Some wood molding planes too (which I have used) the 45 not so much a few times. I have the exact one that is on ebay for 475? Metal box. prices are kind of nuts.

Anyway I like following along w what you guys are doing.


----------



## RWE

Petey:

If you have time before your build, I would highly recommend the Chris Schwarz book on workbench design.

I built his two day Roubo which was shown in a video series on the Popular Woodworking site, with modifications. I wanted a bench that could break down, so I used his plan for a half lapped base framework, but used a solid wood top. You use bolts to hold the two base ends to the stretchers, but the ends are solid assemblies.

The last thing that you want to do is go to the length of building a bench and then decide it is not quite what I wanted. The book will take you through all the considerations.

I am a Paul Sellers fan and I like how he uses the English bench with the quick release on one front side. I have the shoulder/side vise and end vise that is typical for a roubo. I work a lot on the end vise. I could be persuaded to go with another metal vise like Mr. Sellers.

If you go with a shoulder/side vise, take a hard look at the Benchcrafted hardware. Excellent hardware. I only got the retro fit scissor piece because I had already built mine when I ran across their stuff. I helped a friend build a solid thick oak Roubo with the Benchcrafted hardware. it is good stuff. A bit pricey, but this is a lifetime build.


----------



## Lazyman

Ok, ok sign me up. I've got some crusty old and cheap estate sale planes that heard about your swap and started crying for some attention. Is gold plating considered a consumable?


----------



## HokieKen

It certainly is Nathan. We're into double digits now!


----------



## theoldfart

Cool, five for you and five for me. We're done!


----------



## HokieKen

Shhhh. I told you not to tell anybody else!


----------



## theoldfart

Oops, sorry. My bad!


----------



## HokieKen

I made an offer to buy a knob off a broken Buck Rogers plane on Ebay last night and the seller accepted.

Don't tell Nathan. He might beat me with a rubber hose. Again.

I finished milling 46 cutters last night too so I'll get those stamped and flat ground and sent off to be heat treated later this week


----------



## bigblockyeti

I need to make a plane till and I'm trying to figure out what would be my best orientation, I'll also have to deal with tail storage.


----------



## Lazyman

Hah! that's not nearly as much fun. I'll bet that it doesn't arrive with a sampler of IPA's either. I hope its not some Lazy SOB making reproductions with his 3D printer.


----------



## drsurfrat

> Hah! that s not nearly as much fun. I ll bet that it doesn t arrive with a sampler of IPA s either. I hope its not some Lazy SOB making reproductions with his 3D printer.
> - Lazyman


I'm w Nathan, making is much more fun.

BTW, how did someone actually BREAK one of those planes? They are like the Sherman tank of planes.


----------



## HokieKen

LOL, if it is a fake, they did a fantastic job of "weathering" it and went to a lot of effort to make it for a plane with a broken tote and lever-less lever cap  And while they were at it, they should have printed the piece to go in the lateral adjuster too…









I think I would have gotten a knob that I was happy with eventually but even if it matched perfectly, I would have known it wasn't a 100% original plane and it probably would have bugged me forever. I assumed I would get a knob eventually. Just had no idea it would be this quick 

Your efforts aren't in vain though. You've pretty well convinced me to buy a printer. And I already ordered the dye and have some resin that's probably nearing the end of its shelf life so I'm gonna pour another one anyway to see how close I can get the color and how the mold holds up with multiple pours.

And I'll definitely be keeping the ones I pour as well as the ones you printed just in case somebody else happens into a knobless Buck Rogers in the future ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

> I m w Nathan, making is much more fun.
> 
> BTW, how did someone actually BREAK one of those planes? They are like the Sherman tank of planes.
> 
> - drsurfrat


Cast Aluminum is a fickle beast Mike. I'm guessing there was a bad ingot somewhere along the line and the thin sections had micro cracks when cast. Then a few years useage and…fatigue failure.

If the lever cap was complete, I would have included that in my offer. Those things are phenomenal! It's amazing to me how easily they lock down with the rollers. I SO wish that all the MF lever caps had been like the Buck Rogers ones!


----------



## KentInOttawa

Kenny, I'm just spit-balling here, to get the ball rolling. My first thought was a series of two or three 2×12 shelves about 2-3 feet long. The planes would get placed and balanced, nose in, on a 1×4board that is raised above the shelf, creating a sort of I-beam or display platform. The tails could get coiled or stuffed loosely into the spaces created by vertical dividers.










I added the back brace to counter the shelf bowing after I considered the total weight of 3 or 4 of those tailed planes.


----------



## HokieKen

You confused me for a second Kent (easily done). I think you were directing that to Yeti  I like the idea though!


----------



## Lazyman

My guess is that BR was dropped bottom up on some concrete to break both the tote and the cap. What was he asking for the entire thing or was it an auction?


----------



## HokieKen

$75 was the asking price for the plane. He agreed to take $20 for the knob and bolt with shipping included.


----------



## controlfreak

I was hoping to get the plane till done before vacation (if you call visiting MIL vacation) But I think I am running out of time.


----------



## bandit571

Does the Swap include a hammer to adjust with?









I guess I could go shopping, again…









I may have to keep this one…









And…the seller keeps adding to the stash….


----------



## KentInOttawa

> You confused me for a second Kent (easily done). I think you were directing that to Yeti  I like the idea though!
> 
> - HokieKen


Doh! You're right.

It only happened because I'm easily confused.


----------



## Peteybadboy

RWE thanks for the advice. I purchased the book.


----------



## Notw

> I was hoping to get the plane till done before vacation (if you call visiting MIL vacation) But I think I am running out of time.
> 
> - controlfreak


No need to play the lottery you already won the jackpot on that vacation.


----------



## HokieKen

I have one tailed plane that I inherited. I went to use it once and the belt broke. Still haven't replaced the belt. Probably never will.

IIRC, it's an old Makita but it's all steel Yeti. I could probably be coerced into trading for a worm gear circular saw


----------



## Lazyman

This little guy showed up today. Not sure it was ever used. When I got it for $20 less than they typically go for on eBay, it got a little worried that I missed something but it looks fine to me. Even has the original box.


----------



## HokieKen

Cool Nathan  I contemplated one of those but wasn't sure how it would work in practice with both cutting edges in the same plane. I'll be curious what your impressions are.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

$20 is a great price, Nathan, and my No.79 is an english made tool as well. Hasn't gotten much use since the 98/99 side rabbets arrived on scene, but still a useful tool. I read to avoid dulling the 'passive' cutter, simply draw it back, out of play. Pretty easy, and it doesn't take long to set back into place when needed.


----------



## bandit571

> This little guy showed up today. Not sure it was ever used. When I got it for $20 less than they typically go for on eBay, it got a little worried that I missed something but it looks fine to me. Even has the original box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Lazyman


Wondered who out bid me….


----------



## theoldfart

+1^


----------



## bandit571

Last "tailed" plane I used..was a Rockwell…..

usually just wrapped the "tails" around the handles, when storing them away…

Doesn't I********************ani USE one of them Makita Tailed Planes? Hmmmm…


----------



## Lazyman

> If the lever cap was complete, I would have included that in my offer. Those things are phenomenal! It s amazing to me how easily they lock down with the rollers. I SO wish that all the MF lever caps had been like the Buck Rogers ones!
> 
> - HokieKen


I'd like to see some close up pictures of that when you get a chance. Seems like you said something earlier about here being no backlash.


----------



## Lazyman

> $20 is a great price, Nathan, and my No.79 is an english made tool as well. Hasn t gotten much use since the 98/99 side rabbets arrived on scene, but still a useful tool. I read to avoid dulling the passive cutter, simply draw it back, out of play. Pretty easy, and it doesn t take long to set back into place when needed.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop
> 
> - bandit571


Not $20. $20 less than the other auctions out there for other #79s I've been watching. Heck, even the ones missing parts or with obvious cracks were selling for more.

Thanks for the tip on drawing back the cutter.


----------



## theoldfart

Noob?
Are you sure?
Not in my book.


----------



## HokieKen

> If the lever cap was complete, I would have included that in my offer. Those things are phenomenal! It s amazing to me how easily they lock down with the rollers. I SO wish that all the MF lever caps had been like the Buck Rogers ones!
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> I d like to see some close up pictures of that when you get a chance. Seems like you said something earlier about here being no backlash.
> 
> - Lazyman


I intend to take some good pics of these planes before I'm done. The lateral adjuster and depth adjuster are super tight compared to most bench planes. There is exceptionally little backlash in the depth adjuster. And the lever cap has a unique lever mechanism as well. It really is an innovative design for the time. I'm not a big fan of plastic or aluminum in my tools but they made it work.


----------



## HokieKen

And I'm a fan of tools in general so I wouldn't store Yeti's planes in file 13. Johnny's post did give me a chuckle though.

For the record, they're both solid contributors around here if you ask me ;-)


----------



## RWE

Petey:

I consider the Schwarz book on workbenches one of the best resource books for a project that I have ever read. You don't have to do any of his builds, but you get a lot of the why and wherefores of the different options you can use. The biggest factor is going for weight. Get a solid, heavy base, so that sucker doesn't move around.

In my case I had average joinery, but I can unbolt the parts and get them out the door if I move.

Have fun with it. Find a friend or a shop where you can plane and joint up to 12 inches or run the top slabs through a big sander. For a Roubo, 12 inches wide, two slabs is enough. I have a gap for clamps in the middle, that I put removable runs of wood so the middle is solid. I took the hard route and milled the slabs with a Router sled on parallel supports. That works, common enough for natural edge slabs, but if you can locate a shop, go that route. More precise and you get a better top surface.

My friend that I helped build the oak bench had railroad tie sized white oak drying in his utility room for two years. His marriage survived and he has a beautiful bench now.


----------



## HokieKen

Just for everyone's info, there's a plane swap that's kicking off. Here's the thread. It can be wood or metal planes and you can make/modify/restore/overhaul as you see fit and includes most anything that can loosely be defined as a "plane" like scrapers, spokeshaves, beaders and kerfing planes.

It would be cool to see some new faces in this swap. They're a blast if you've never done one  Would be nice to see some faces that used to do swaps but haven't lately (hmmmph MOS hmmmph DON hmmmph) as well. I haven't done one in a while (except for the beer swap, I never miss beer) but I'm pretty excited about doing planes again.

Maybe I'll get something like this again:


----------



## controlfreak

Well here is the first fail of the plane till. I made it too small for the Stanley No. 8 so it will need to ride on top . The other problem is while the slope will hold the larger ones the smaller ones want to flop over. Need to work on this a bit to devise some holding lips.


----------



## HokieKen

Magnets CF. Embed a fairly strong one right under the toe of the planes. Very secure and it doesn't add anything that might catch the edge of the plane when you're removing it. If you don't like the look of the magnets, put a thin sheet of veneer over top. The dovetailed case looks great  Also, I think the #8 looks good sitting on top. Kind of like a king surveying his peasants ;-p


----------



## controlfreak

Thanks Kenny, 
Plywood is only 1/2" so I will have to watch that but I think that may be the quickest path forward. Plan is to place some wood strips to separate the planes and pin nail in place so I can change things around as needs change. That was all the justification I needed to buy a pin nail gun.


----------



## HokieKen

A pin nailer is something you won't regret having CF. It'll come in handy for all kinds of stuff. If you don't use veneer over them, 1/4" diameter x 1/8" thick magnets should be more than sufficient if you do veneer over them, double them up.


----------



## Notw

KJ Magnetics has some 1/4" x 1/8" magnets that can hold 2.85lbs
https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D42-N52

or you could step up to a 3/4" x 1/8" and get 9.76lbs
https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DC2


----------



## Mosquito

the thing about magnets to remember, is that their holding power drops off dramatically when they are not in direct contact. I.e. behind a veneer layer. So if that's the plan, size up on the magnets well beyond what you think you "need".

Kenny, I do want to participate in the shop made plane swap, it's just a time commitment issue at this point. There are some potentially impactful work changes hanging out there right now that might shake things up some, so it's kind of a weird time for me right now


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, you'll have to decide what's really important, family, life and income or sawdust!

Shouldn't be too hard a choice.


----------



## Mosquito

lol well, its potentially a question of putting a worth on those things… I'm rolling off of my current project with a client, and they want me (and my collective 4-1/2 years of knowledge) to stay, by way of them hiring me directly.


----------



## 33706

My next plane till will use those magnets found in dead microwave ovens. Two little donuts about 2 1/2" around. If your finger gets between these magnets and a iron surface, they will bite a nip of flesh right off your finger. Perfect!


----------



## Mosquito

or the cylinder magnets that are about the size of a pop can… double duty, hold the planes in the til, and the til to the shop fridge


----------



## controlfreak

I had some of those super magnets at one point. They came out of a old CT or MRI machine in a cardiology office. Yeah I would need a two handed grip to pull a plane off of those….and check to make sure the till with the other planes was not still attached.

No fancy veneers, this till build was mostly to get some dovetail practice and like many shop projects, save some space. I think a saw till is next followed by my next big one, the wall mounted tool cabinet. I my need to move the door to hang that though.

Still thinking on the plane swap. I bought a group of five once and need to look up what I paid for them. Hmm can I do more then one to equal $40?


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, if you can get 5 planes for $40 and want to send all 5, go for it. And I'll give you my name ;-)

You don't need much pull on the magnets in your till. You don't need them to actually hold the full weight of the planes, just to keep them from tipping. Of course, with the small magnets you can get like 100 for $10 or so. Might as well stack them double if you want a little added insurance. You could also get one of the magnetic tool bars from Harbor Freight and lay it into a dado across the full span but that's uglier IMO…

Edit to add: I also plowed a really shallow dado about 1/4" wide where the iron protrudes from each plane on my till. That may add a little to the edge life depending on how often you remove/replace a plane but mostly it lets it sit completely flat on the backrest which puts it in direct contact with the magnets (no veneer on mine either).


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> Kenny, I do want to participate in the shop made plane swap, it s just a time commitment issue at this point. There are some potentially impactful work changes hanging out there right now that might shake things up some, so it s kind of a weird time for me right now
> 
> - Mosquito


Trust me, I get it. I'm not committed to the plane swap yet. I have a lot of other irons in the fire and have been doing a lot of late nights and weekends at work lately. I could definitely commit to doing it if I wanted to refurbish a vintage plane but I feel like that's something anybody could do for themselves if they wanted one. I've had a few ideas of planes that I'd like to have that no one ever made (I'd have a skewed version of every plane on the market if I could ;-p) that I'd like to machine prototypes for. So I'm hoping to feel like I have the time to make one of those happen for this swap. Plan B may be a tandem build to get that shoulder plane I've been shopping for unsuccessfully 

Speaking of… what's the real difference between a rabbet/rebate plane and shoulder plane? Is it just that a shoulder plane is pitched low for end grain and a rabbet is pitched higher and/or skewed?


----------



## DLK

Kenny where did you post the rules of your plane swap?


----------



## HokieKen

In this thread back on January 6 Don. Here is the post.


----------



## Lazyman

When I decommission an old PC, I take apart the hard drive and get the magnets out of them. Very strong and fairly large. There are also 1 or 2 tiny magnets in there too. I usually keep a couple of the large ones sitting under my bench grinder to help catch filings. They are also handy for finding a screw that may have been sucked up into my cyclone dust bin. I stick it to the end of a steel rod and go fishing.


----------



## drsurfrat

> ...
> 
> Speaking of… what s the real difference between a rabbet/rebate plane and shoulder plane? Is it just that a shoulder plane is pitched low for end grain and a rabbet is pitched higher and/or skewed?
> - HokieKen


That's what Woodsmith says. Also seems to be lacking any kind of fence or depth stop. Don't have one… But I do have my MF skew block for all that kind of work.


----------



## Mosquito

> Speaking of… what s the real difference between a rabbet/rebate plane and shoulder plane? Is it just that a shoulder plane is pitched low for end grain and a rabbet is pitched higher and/or skewed?
> 
> - HokieKen


Basically blade angle and/skew is pretty much it (and how they eject shavings)

This is probably a more in depth thing than necessary, but sharing regardless 
https://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/shoulder-planes-vs-rabbet-planes/#:~:text=Rabbet%20planes%20likewise%20make%20great%20rabbets%20both%20with,used%20to%20dial%20in%20a%20fit%20or%20shape.



> (I d have a skewed version of every plane on the market if I could ;-p)
> - HokieKen


I feel like a skew bench plane might be a little tricky to use lol


----------



## bandit571

You can also use them large magnets to go "fishing" with…....need a way to attach a rope to the magnet..long enough to reach out to the middle of a body of water…...be surprised what you may find along the bottom….

Thinking about either a #3 &#4 plane in a box for the swap…or a #4 and a block plane to match….fills out the box better…maybe fill with the shavings the planes made?


----------



## HokieKen

> ... But I do have my MF skew block for all that kind of work.
> 
> - drsurfrat


A man after my own heart


----------



## HokieKen

> (I d have a skewed version of every plane on the market if I could ;-p)
> - HokieKen
> 
> I feel like a skew bench plane might be a little tricky to use lol
> 
> - Mosquito


I'd step on a baby and slap an old lady to get my hands on this skewed jack...

But yeah, in general, I guess I like my bench planes straight across ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks for the feedback. That sorta confirms what I was leaning towards which is a shoulder plane for endgrain and stick with my skewed block or fillister for cross-grain.


----------



## bandit571

May throw this in the box…Logos?









Well, it does say "Solid Tool Steel"...









Nothing here….No, it is NOT a Stanley 220…









Millers Falls No. 75…...









( quit drooling, Kenny, LOL)









May toss the Mutt in with it..









Someone will have to supply the "V-Line" label….


----------



## rad457

On the topic of Plane tills, I know late as usual
Added this one after seeing something Fridge had made,








Got small way to quick so have been working on setting this up on the back side of the bench, work in progress just need to stop buying planes?








Rare earth magnets from L.V. 3/4" for #5 and #6 and 1/2" for #4 an under. recessed with a little thick CA to keep them in the wood








Wood planes an Veritas still have some room in the Wall Cabinet Block planes on, under an around the Bench!


----------



## 33706

> Kent, my plan is to cut at the blue lines:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I can mount between centers to sand and polish it. Then I ll chuck it up using the boss below the knob and machine the boss off the top and drill and counterbore it and finally cut the boss off the bottom. That s the plan at least. I ll use this one to do all that to see how the resin holds up and handles it
> 
> - HokieKen


Sorry, for quoting an entry that is 100 posts old.
I have tried using "RIT" dye as a tint instead of the opaque pigments used as colorants. In my ever elusive search for a satisfactory process for re-creating Permaloid totes and knobs, this is what I came up with this morning:










This is 'Scarlet Red' and I used too much of it. It does allow bright sunlight to pass through, but it's too dark to show in normal ambient light. I also think that knobs should be made by creating billets of epoxy with the intent of final shaping on the lathe, rather than going for a precise match right out of the mold. The clamshell mold is still the way to go for the totes, and it is truly an art to create the proper mold.


----------



## HokieKen

Looks cool from here PK. Still a bit too opaque though? Hard to tell from pics.

A couple of new additions to the Buck Rogers family showed up yesterday


----------



## HokieKen

I also got the replacement knob for the jack plane. It's pretty beat up and much more faded than the tote. I may end up using one I make instead if the color match is better…


----------



## bandit571

On another site….there is a poster that wanted to know where the chipbreaker for a Millers Falls No. 75 was…whether it went missing….yeah…
Hmmm…









Logo says Millers Falls No. 75….









Oooh-kay….









Methinks that red cap iron MIGHT be the "chipbreaker"?


----------



## HokieKen

Kinda hard to set a proper chipbreaker on a bevel up plane huh Bandit?

I'm calling Fat Man and Little Boy done other than lapping the soles on both 









Mike's smoother cleaned up pretty good. The paint isn't as complete as the jack but it's good enough to let it be. And the Tennite is more faded than the tote on Fat Man but it's in good shape and the tote matches the knob well 



























The only thing required on these other than general cleanup and polishing was a little filing on ghe bottom of the frogs to get them to seat solidly. I had to scrape one small spot on one of the pads on the smoother that was raised and I had to file the iron bed flat on the smoother. And both have a significant high spot at the mouth I need to lap out:


----------



## HokieKen

Also, Mos' is neck deep on my craplist for that full link up there.


----------



## RWE

Fat Man and Little Boy are looking good. Congratulations.

When you get a chance, do a photo op for the whole Buck Rogers collection.


----------



## Mosquito

hahaha, oops


----------



## HokieKen

One more to bump it away


----------



## HokieKen

> Fat Man and Little Boy are looking good. Congratulations.
> 
> When you get a chance, do a photo op for the whole Buck Rogers collection.
> 
> - RWE


Most definitely. Just waiting until I have a chance to get a shine on everything. There's one more eggbeater and a brace that are commonly considered Buck Rogers that I'm on the prowl for. There's also a sliding bevel I want that some consider a BR tool. I've had one of those on my list for a while anyway though since before I got the Buck Rogers itch. There's also a hacksaw with a Tennite handle I think I'll grab too. Then I'll have to figure out where to put all of it…


----------



## HokieKen

Here's the current stable in as-recieved condition (other than the planes)










I haven't decided whether the keyhole saws and spade bigs get to stay. Some consider them BR tools because of the designer and time period but I tend to think they're only Buck Rogers if they have red tennite.


----------



## Karda

mos don't over think the color, if you looked at 6 different Buck Rogers plane you would see different shades of red. remember Anything that is mixed varies from batch batch


----------



## 33706

Ken, can we refer to your workshop as '*The Manhattan Project*' now?


----------



## HokieKen

It certainly looks like a test site some days PK 

Fat Man and Little Boy now have flat, shiny hineys  There's still a bit of a hollow behind the mouth of Little Boy but I'm tired and it'll do.


----------



## HokieKen

Here are my two Buck Rogers push drills. One I've had for several years and is a regular user. The other Mike sent me along with the smoother. I tore Mike's down and polished everything up, cleaned out all the old grease and put new white lithium grease in and glued the index ring back to the tennite handle so it points in the right place now. Can you tell which is which?


----------



## drsurfrat

Ha. You call them "Mike's" but have made them your own for sure. They *deserve* their new home (anthropomorphically speaking)


----------



## HokieKen

I fell asleep watching a movie last weekend and when I woke up, this was on TV:









A Buck Rogers episode with the Dad from Dirty Dancing and Bull from Night Court  I watched it and I recorded another episode I'm watching now. Good news fellas. All the women in the 25th century are hot and wear short skirts.

Also, everything appears to be made from concrete so the hand planes probably don't get much use…


----------



## BenDupre

In the future everyone wears track suits!


----------



## Lazyman

Kenny will still be wearing Crocs though. Well, the robot body that hosts his head will anyway.


----------



## BenDupre

Do we need a Buck Rodgers Mitre Box now?










Ebay

Buck had enough tools to build his own wooden space ship!


----------



## 33706

Yeah, I realize this is not a screwdriver thread, but while scrolling through a Ebay search for Turner planes, I saw this Aussie screwdriver:

VINTAGE TURNER NO-24 1 1/4" STUBBY FLAT SLOTTED HEAD AUSTRALIA SCREWDRIVER

TOOL









Maybe I'm hasty about connecting the dots, but Turner planes have an uncanny resemblance to Millers Falls tools, and I'd hazard a guess that this Turner screwdriver has a Tenite handle. In fact a lot of stuff on a Turner search on Ebay turns up with that classic Roman Red plastic components.


----------



## HokieKen

I have a Langdon box with the red stippled deck like that Ben. Fortunately, the deck isn't plastic ;-)


----------



## bandit571

May have to build another one of these…









Even has an adjustable fence…









Harbor Freight supplied a skew chisel for the iron..


















hmmmm
I do still have the Jack plane..









two of the three projects from a video series I followed back then…the 3rd?









18" Frame saw…9ppi


----------



## Johnny7

> ... I tore Mike's down and polished everything up …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


I ask you the following in your capacity as Master of Tennite: what do you find works well/best for polishing the stuff?
Nice job, by the way.


----------



## HokieKen

Just micro-mesh abrasives Johnny. Like the flexible pads you buy for pen turning. I tried some polishing compound on a cotton wheel but this stuff burns fast and easy. I haven't found a good way to get rid of black spots or to generally shine the stuff up. But if it has some light scratches, the micro mesh will smooth the texture. Mineral spirits on a white scotchbrite pad and a a toothbrush to get into grooves and threads will clean up the white plasticizer residue though and that's all I've done to any of it except the knob on the jack plane.

If anybody has suggestions on really polishing it up, I'd be interested. I have the extra push drill that the tennite is in rough shape on so I can experiment some with it.


----------



## HokieKen

I'll have to look into Turner tools later PK. I am unaware of any relation but in the later years, Millers Falls did expand to some degree internationally so it's possible.


----------



## HokieKen

So, the 104 eggbeater is broke down into its components:









Note for future: the crank knob is attached with a screw and the lower part of the knob is attached then the cap is bonded on top, permanently, to cover the screw head. I assumed it was attached with pin peened over and that I was milling the peen off. I was actually milling the screw out. So now I'm gonna have to get creative when it's time to reattach :-/

I would really like to paint this drill and the Plan'r File. But, the red paint in the recessed letters is perfect and I don't want to have to redo that. Any suggestions on masking the letters while I spray the gray parts? I'm leaning towards packing grease in the letters then scraping it off the top. Maybe I'd be better off just painting it all grey then redoing the letters?


----------



## rad457

Fill with melted Wax?


----------



## bandit571

Get a tube of toothpaste…wipe it over the lettering. Spray the gray, then wash away the toothpaste. Just some plain, cheap toothpaste.


----------



## HokieKen

Toothpaste huh? Great idea  Not sure about the melted wax Andre. I'd be worried that it may shrink a little and let the gray have a path around it or not be perfectly flush and make the edges raggedy looking.


----------



## Johnny7

*HK*

explanation of your methods much appreciated

Also - and I hate to do this to you (and maybe it's old news) but there's another red tennite-handled MF push drill , No 170-and there's one out there right now. (and I think you know where "there" is)


----------



## rad457

> Get a tube of toothpaste…wipe it over the lettering. Spray the gray, then wash away the toothpaste. Just some plain, cheap toothpaste.
> 
> - bandit571


Extra fresh or Whitening?


----------



## bandit571

Just the cheapest stuff you can find in the toothpaste isle….










my 3 drills….plus a #104…


----------



## corelz125

Who knew. Kenny I use this one all the time it's my go to hacksaw.


----------



## HokieKen

Ahhh yeas Johnny, I let the 170 slip my mind but you're right, it was on my list as well 

Naturally Bandit already has every tool we mention ;-)

That's the one Corelz. Haven't seen a bunch of those listed but they donbring a lot of cash either so I'm not too concerned over it. My focus now is finding the larger eggbeater and the brace for a price my wife won't notice ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

I recant my previous statement regarding the 170. I recall now that I scratched it off my personal "Buck Rogers list" because it was released much later, wasn't by one of the 3 designers that did the rest of the line and because it was a V-line offering and I'm just not really interested in those tools. Also, all of my push drills use the lobed-shank bits so I'm not interested in adding another one that uses the dimpled style which the 170 does. So that's one less to hunt down ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Nathan requested some detail on the adjustment mechanisms of the Buck Rogers planes. I took some photos as I was putting the smoother back together over the weekend.

The depth adjuster is unique in that the threaded rod rotates by turning the knob pinned to the end:









The threaded rod is held in place by a washer on the inside at the shoulder of the threads and the face of the knob on the outside. The square piece rides on the threads and the depth adjuster fork mates the same way it does on the standard knob on most bench planes.









It's a standard thread form but there is virtually no backlash in the fit. I assume that was accomplished by machining to tighter tolerances. Or maybe I just got lucky with these 2 planes? The large knob is really well positioned to be able to comfortably adjust the depth while gripping the tote and even while planing.









The adjuster is pinned similar to standard bench planes. But the fit between the pin and the adjuster fork is is really close. When pinned and mated with the nut on the other end, there is very minimal side-to-side play in the position.









The lateral adjuster has the disk pressed onto the lever rather than a single-piece stamped lever/tab:









The disk is a pretty close fit in the slot in the iron:









You can see too that the lever is pinned closer to the disk than is common. The longer lever and shorter arm from the pivot to the disk makes adjustments easier and more precise compared to common bench planes.

Finally, the lever cap is exceptional. For starters, the angled faces at the contact faces of the lever and main body provide a positive stop so the lever rotates to specified position and stops. Compared to an old cap which can keep on rotating if you want it to.


















But, the deal sealer is the roller on the lever that forces the leaf spring down. It is smooth and requires virtually no force compared to the other design that has a cam formed into the lever piece.


----------



## Notw

I take a weekend off and this place becomes egg beaters of your dreams?? LOL The set is coming together nicely Ken!


----------



## Lazyman

Thanks Kenny. Makes you wonder why those improvements didn't eventually get incorporated into more planes.


----------



## RWE

All of this Buck Rogers stuff makes me wonder, what was the impetus that made Millers Falls come up with that branding? Did they decide tenite was the future for plane makers, how can we build a marketing "thing" around that?

I don't figure tradesmen to be big Buck Rogers fans, so I guess they used the "looks" of the plane to help build a marketing campaign and the plane actually had some nice improvements that would appeal to workers who actually use the plane.

I was never interested in most things post WWII as far as old tools. I figure the tool world went to hell about that time and I never understood why folks collected the later type Stanleys. (What years did they actually ship good ole Buck?)

Maybe Buck was Bucking that trend.

I have discovered that the Record products maintained good quality beyond what Stanley did.

If I ever see a Buck Rogers in the wild, I will not now dismiss or ignore it. Thanks for the details Hokie.


----------



## HokieKen

Cost is my guess Nathan. Future iterations on their plane designs were obvious attempts to reduce costs. I doubt after the early 50s that many companies were looking for ways to make their planes better instead of cheaper. And honestly, with all the innovations of the Buck Rogers planes, I wouldn't trade cast iron for aluminum overall.


----------



## Notw

interesting article on the Buck Rogers tools with some possible explanations.
https://workingbyhand.wordpress.com/2013/11/29/atomic-era-buck-rogers-tools/

Still not 100% sure why they did it but I do know if they would have done a Star Wars line I would own them.


----------



## HokieKen

> All of this Buck Rogers stuff makes me wonder, what was the impetus that made Millers Falls come up with that branding? Did they decide tenite was the future for plane makers, how can we build a marketing "thing" around that?
> 
> ...
> 
> - RWE


Millers Falls never called anything "Buck Rogers" actually. That is a term coined by collectors by to describe tools designed by 3 particular industrial designers who worked for MF and that were released in the late 40s. Most had Tennite bits, but not all. I feel like the overall design was just typical of the time with the Atomic Age and Art Deco influences abounding rather than a concerted attempt to introduce a line of "futuristic" tools.


----------



## RWE

Seems I have been skating around outside that whole universe and never realized that Buck Rogers was not the actual advertising concept.

Makes more sense now. Still not sure if the ole boy carpenter was into Art Deco, but economy of production was probably the driver for the company. Like I said, the wheels fell off the old tool world post WWII when power tools came into being and cornered the purchasing dollar. Now there are some cool old power tools.


----------



## corelz125

NOTW it has become Buck Rogers of your dreams. How about those red handle chisels are they part of this line also??


----------



## HokieKen

Nope Corelz, those are Permaloid, not Tennite. At least they aren't Buck Rogers in my opinion. They can be if you want them to be though ;-)


----------



## corelz125

Ok then I have some buck Rogers chisel to match my hack saw


----------



## HokieKen

From what I've read of them, those chisels are supposed to be really good users. I bid on them from time to time but have never won any.


----------



## corelz125

I abuse them. They were the chisels I would use to notch 2×4s inside the wall or other rough construction. Maybe I'll treat them a little better now. I've nicked them a few times already.


----------



## siemensgeek

I was sitting here reading all these Buck Rogers posts while watching "The Woodwright's Shop 2021 - Tool Chest from Bristol Series 36 Episode 13". At the end of the video during the closing credits Roy is planing a board with a Buck Rogers plane!


----------



## Johnny7

> I was sitting here reading all these Buck Rogers posts while watching "The Woodwright s Shop 2021 - Tool Chest from Bristol Series 36 Episode 13". At the end of the video during the closing credits Roy is planing a board with a Buck Rogers plane!
> 
> - siemensgeek


*Coincidentally, I was watching an episode last night (workholding without vises) and saw this:*


----------



## HokieKen

Just when I didn't think Roy could be any more of a stud…


----------



## DavePolaschek

Seems like this might be a good place to mention we're cranking up a plane swap. Deadline for signing up is April 10th.


----------



## HokieKen

Well, this one's on the way…









So I have both eggbeaters now. So now I need a 1950 brace and a 300 hacksaw and I'll call my collection complete 

But, at the risk of getting back on topic… Some of my research into the Buck Rogers tools led me to this rendering of some block planes that was done by Garth Huxtable who was one of the BR designers.









None of these block planes, or any similar ones, were ever produced by Millers Falls. But maybe some influence can be detected in the designs of modern high-end plane makers?









Huxtable had a prototype made for a block plane but it never went to production. The body is obviously based on the Buck Rogers bench planes. And see the lever on the front for adjusting the throat? Looks like the lateral adjuster on the bench planes.









I may, or may not, be gathering up some ideas for the upcoming plane swap…


----------



## ac0rn

If you enlarge the rendering #5, draw wheels onto it, you have today's sports cars. Same with the Veritas block plane.


----------



## Notw

> But, at the risk of getting back on topic… Some of my research into the Buck Rogers tools led me to this rendering of some block planes that was done by Garth Huxtable who was one of the BR designers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


Looks like if you turned the "handle" around on the third one (number 6 on the sketch) it would be a perfect spot to hold and push the plane between your thumb and index finger while adding downward pressure with the front knob.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah I'm not sure how #6 works. How does the lever cap lock the iron down? I think I want #5 with some divots in the side for grip.


----------



## HokieKen

Lapping plane soles is not something I enjoy doing. I'm a guy who gets them mostly flat and moves on. I've even considered milling and scraping them to avoid grinding on abrasives. But, I lapped the Buck Rogers planes over the weekend and I still had my #22 and #24 planes that hadn't been lapped. So I figured as long as I had the big granite block out, might as well get that over with.

I started with 120 grit like always and put some lines on the soles with Sharpie. The 22 cleaned up nicely pretty quick. That's what I like to see. However the 24 is a different animal. After about 200 strokes on 120, I regressed to 60 grit paper. And after another 200 strokes or so on that, I still have this:









I don't think I've ever had a plane with this much twist in it. I've kept a constant check on it with a straightedge and it's definitely improving but the mouth, a section at the left on the toe and a section at the right on on the heel were all that were coplanar to begin with. I have it "mostly flat" along the full length now but the twist is still evident by the remaining sharpie. I think this is probably the most I have ever had to do to a sole. But, there are no cracks that I can find and the plane overall is solid as a rock so I'll keep at it.

Kinda like Sisyphus huh Kev?


----------



## RWE

You should try the windshield wiper automatic handplane lapping technique. I tried to find the video, but two fellows did a YouTube where they built an apparatus to lift the plane body, drop it down on the sandpaper and drag it across the surface with the windshield wiper motor. It was hilarious, but I don't think it was very effective, being a little herky-jerky.

I've done a few and that might be the worst I've seen if I am seeing it correctly. Mostly the ones I have done, I see a belly in front of the mouth and perhaps in the rear, but even on the sides.


----------



## theoldfart

Keep pushing that rock up the hill Kenny.


----------



## Notw

This is why I believe my collection of Stanley planes will stop at a No. 6. It was a bear to get flat, i really don't want to do a No. 7 or No. 8


----------



## rad457

> This is why I believe my collection of Stanley planes will stop at a No. 6. It was a bear to get flat, i really don t want to do a No. 7 or No. 8
> 
> - Notw


Yup I was given a #7 (after building my bench) and have never really used it, 1 #6, have lost count of the #5's 
Now if that was a new plane out of the box, I am pretty sure it would have been returned?


----------



## HokieKen

If it were new, it certainly would have been returned. Wonder if Millers Falls will still take returns on pre-war planes? ;-)



> This is why I believe my collection of Stanley planes will stop at a No. 6. It was a bear to get flat, i really don t want to do a No. 7 or No. 8
> 
> - Notw


My #15 (5-1/2 size) is the largest plane that gets regular use so I wouldn't fault you for not having a jointer. I will say though, it's about time for me to flatten my bench top and I'm really looking forward to having this big boy for that job


----------



## Notw

The next two I would like to have are pricier so they may have to wait a little while


----------



## rad457

> The next two I would like to have are pricier so they may have to wait a little while
> 
> - Notw


My collection of Baileys was going well until some of dem Millers Falls an Winchesters started showing up! Heck even a Sargent marched in Do Veritas an L.N. count? Threw the Wind Rivers into the recycle(trash) bin


----------



## Johnny7

> Kinda like Sisyphus huh Kev?
> 
> - HokieKen


It's only Sisyphean if each new day you have to flatten it all over again.


----------



## Lazyman

Did you measure how much more you have to remove or is it better not to know?


----------



## HokieKen

Nah, I haven't measured. It's not a whole lot, it just takes a while with the overall surface area being that large. And when I do a plane that's bigger than my surface plate, I'm careful not to put much downward pressure for fear of ending up with a hollow in the center. Plus I stop to check with a straightedge more often for the same reason. It's time consuming but I just do 20-40 strokes whenever I walk by it and have a second. It'll get flat when it gets flat then I'll stop. Fortunately, I don't need it to make a living


----------



## bandit571

These two followed me home…can I keep them?









$2..









And…









For a Sargent made for Sears Craftsman Jack plane…..414 smooth sole…Type?













































Not too bad of a day….only had to go 3 blocks each way….$21.45 counting sales tax…


----------



## corelz125

$18 that's a little more than your usual costs Bandit. Kenny what type of sandpaper are you using?


----------



## HokieKen

That's just regular 3M sandpaper from Lowes Corelz. I use dry paper up to 400 then finish with 600 and 1200 wet/dry. I keep the shop vac next to the bench and vacuum off the swarf after every 40 strokes or so.


----------



## RWE

Well Bandit, you beat me again. Congratulate me fellows, just had my second Covid shot and to celebrate i went rust hunting. I got a plane for the Christmas swap, but it cost more than $18 but below the $40 cap. Have the parts soaking in Evaporust now. Good wood front and rear and should clean up nicely. Smooth bottom Jack, but I will say no more, not sure about the rules.

I am thinking of sending it up to Hokie to handle lapping the bottom since he has been practicing a bit.

Bandit: I had a Craftsman Sargent and really liked it, but sold it to young man that I have done some timber framing with. I needed to thin the herd and it was an outlier amongst a bunch of Stanley's, one other Sargent, and mostly older oods and ends like a Lakeside #3.

Today, I trudged through 3 Flea Malls with no luck at all, until finally I hit a booth at the 4th Mall with several interesting planes. Could have bought home a decent Stanley #6 for $45, but just did not need it. I guess I am an outlier on that subject, but I don't like a #6 that much and jump to a #8 from a Jack if needed. Don't use my 7's that much either, but respect them.


----------



## corelz125

The difficult soles I bought ceramic sandpaper. It cuts aggressively. I was using regular paper and it was taking too long.


----------



## rad457

I have always used Self adhesive 180 or 220 grit from a auto body supply store, have the Lee Valley granite block but found the Cast wing of the Table saw or jointer allows for longer flatter stokes? Been a few times the thought of some 80 grit were very appealing


----------



## HokieKen

I have ceramic belts for my 2×72 grinder but no sheets. I do have some lapping films but they are just ultra fine grades so no help here. If I had plans to do any more big planes, I'd order some. But I have all of the MF big boys and they're all the types I like and in great shape so I don't forsee that being the case 

I have used my jointer bed to lap planes before Andre but to be honest, my jointer is behind my mower in the corner and has a bunch of crap stacked on it so I just didn't feel like dragging it out. I really need to just sell that thing. Between hand planes, my face jointing sled for my planer and straight-edge ripping jig for my table saw, I just don't use the jointer. It's probably been 2 years since I have.

Hmmm… I wonder now if I could make some kind of drum to replace the head in my jointer and use it as kind of a drum sander for stuff like flattening plane soles? Anybody ever seen something like that? Kind of a upside down, manual surface grinder?


----------



## Mosquito

They do exist Kenny, I've got a small Dara James one. There were also larger versions made by other companies as well (Frank Howarth has one that's probably close to 36" wide)


----------



## drsurfrat

> ...
> SomeBigLongThingOfTextForMyLinkEvenThoughIAmMakingItAWordLinkJustToAnnoyKenny
> - Mosquito


That is priceless


----------



## HokieKen

Fix it Mos you sunuvabich!

;-p

I was just kinda thinking out loud at first but that actually might be worth considering  My jointer is a 6" Atlas from the early 40's that I got for scrap and did a full restore/rebuild on:









So it has far more value to me than it would to anyone else. Hmmm. I'll have to think through the possible uses. Not a lot comes to mind immediately.


----------



## Mosquito

hahahaha Couldn't resist this morning  I was planning on editing it before my hour window was up, hoping Kenny would see it by then, so as to not be THAT mean but now that you've quoted it you would have to do the same lol


----------



## HokieKen

Dammit now Mike quoted it. Let's just hope this thread is busy today and it's bumped off the page before I'm away from my desktop!


----------



## DavePolaschek

> SomeBigLongThingOfTextForMyLinkEvenThoughIAmMakingItAWordLinkJustToAnnoyKenny


Huh. Doesn't pose a problem for me on my iPad. Guess it's a difference in the wrapping between the desktop and mobile sites. Interesting!

Oh, and priceless! ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

lol I fixed mine 

You'd probably want to get some new pulley's for it I would think, the speed of a jointer head may not be ideal for sanding. I was actually looking at a lot of new manufactured sanders like that Dara James one before I found it on craigslist. There were 2 or 3 I think that I found, basically a drum and a table with a slot in it, and a way to adjust the distance between the two. I imagine you could probably make a drum for your jointer if your Lathe had enough capacity


----------



## Mosquito

> Huh. Doesn't pose a problem for me on my iPad. Guess it's a difference in the wrapping between the desktop and mobile sites. Interesting!
> 
> Oh, and priceless! ;-)
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


It's not a desktop issue it's a mobile (phone) issue. LJ doesn't force line breaks, and doesn't clip overflow so it jacks it all up


----------



## HokieKen

The funny thing is that on mobile, if you hold the phone in landscape, it truncates the link. No wrap/line break, just cuts it off. But in portrait, no truncation and it just gives the whole page a seizure. Grumble grumble grumble…


----------



## Mosquito

yup, that's them making it "mobile" just to tick the old google SEO boxes right there… I loved when Cricket went on about how they had such good google mobile friendly scores, etc, yup, works great, excellent mobile experience right there lol


----------



## DonBroussard

> ;-p


Dang it! Kenny even has the Buck Rogers mobile base! I like it!


----------



## HokieKen

When I go, I go full tilt Don.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Random plane photo to spark conversation?

Having some issues with Veritas replacement blade & chip breaker. 
Grabbed a plane from the 'to be refurbed' box and checked fitment.

All I proved is that type 6 Stanley 603 does not need to be shiny, and can have bork'd tote and still plane wood with sharp Veritas PM11 blade.


















Going to start a separate thread on replacement chip breaker issue as i don't want it buried in this thread.

Cheers!


----------



## HokieKen

I'll be interested in the issues CK. I really like the PM-V11 irons.

I just bought my Secret Santa plane. I have about $10 and 8 months to make all the missing parts now…


----------



## drsurfrat

I'm on my way with the Secret Santa plane as well. It leaves me time to find an even better offering, since I have spare parts coming out my ears.


----------



## Mosquito

I won't lie, I'm shallow… I like my IBC plane irons because I like the way they look more than Hock or LN lol 
That and I like the .140" thick blades in my KK planes


----------



## bandit571

maybe after Supper, tonight….I may take that Craftsman Jack plane to the shop, set a timer, and see just how long it takes to do the rehab….with photos IF you want….Rain Day outside, no shed building today….not a whole lot else going on….we'll see…..


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> I ll be interested in the issues CK. I really like the PM-V11 irons. - HokieKen


 Here is thread on Veritas Cap Iron issue..
Veritas Replacement Cap Iron for Stanley Hand Planes?

Appreciate any and all input.


----------



## bandit571

That $18 jack plane?








Took almost 2 hrs to clean up, rehab and get to making shavings….









Tote was broke, had a swamp under the frog, iron had a big chip out on the edge…rust everywhere under the hood..









One bolt needed a little "extra" to remove…and replace..









Back took 10 minutes to flatten…









Wire wheels for the rest of the dirty parts….reassembled, only to find out the iron was still too dull….20 minutes to sharpen…









I think that will do….









Sargent made for Sears Craftsman jack plane…..a smooth sole to go with my Sargent No. 414c…...


----------



## HokieKen

Lookin' good Bandit


----------



## RWE

Need some help. Got to hit a couple of Antique stores. 2 Questions.

1. Is a clean Union Jack, looks to be pre-WW1 vintage, good rosewood tote and knob worth $60.00 I passed on it since I don't need another Jack, but if it is worth some money, might go back and pick it for Ebay. Did not get a picture, but it was very clean. First and only Union I have seen down here in the sleepy South, other than a transitional that I got.

2. What the heck is this wood smoother sized/sort of rabbet plane for. Is it user modified? Was it used say for coopering or some specialty purpose.

It is a Sandusky Ohio plane. Paid $15 for it to sit on the shelf. I like it. Wood appears to be beech, I think.



















Sides are curved, so you could rabbet curved work. That is what made me think it was for coopering.









This shows the iron edge being parallel with the side hence a rabbet?










Iron was protruding too low in pictures, was as bought. When recessed back, it is inline with the sides.


----------



## DevinT

Looks like a coffin smoother. Rex Krueger talks about them and they pre-date metal bodied planes.

I can add that while you certainly could use one on a coffin, and many certainly were, it gets its name from the tapered toe/heel which makes the body look like a coffin. They have great stearing ability and many people find they fit their hand better because of the tapers.

Since you would use this plane after already having flattened the surface with a try plane, you wouldn't need to rely on straight sides to check for flatness.


----------



## corelz125

That's a market price for that union maybe towards the high end. Looks like a coffin smoother. Might be user altered. That's only a guess though.


----------



## bandit571

May need to go out and find a new base casting…









Type 20 Stanley No. 5-1/4…..has issues….









One side is cracked…other side was fine….I had to supply the depth adjuster wheel….I got the big chip out in the iron sharpened away..









Would like to get a better base casting….


----------



## RWE

The rabbeting area is 1/2 inch deep. One side, right side is 3/8 inch inset to the blade edge. The user must have been right handed, the side shown in picture is also flush with iron but the inset is only 2/8's. So the plane was made with the iron off center of the bottom I guess.

In my rush to figure it had some exotic use, it just may be a coffin smoother. If it is user modified, it was done very early.

In any event, I always wanted a coffin smoother and each one I have looked at was damaged in some way, so I finally got one, with a curious feature.

I'll check out Rex and may look up the Roy Underhill episode where he builds a coffin. Guess I can also check Sandusky #3 and see other images.


----------



## DevinT

You know, now that you mention coopering, I think what you've got there is a coffin smoother that was converted into a howel. Wow, never seen one of those before except in the Handplane Book by Garrett Hack, which I just referenced for coopering tools. This would have been used before the croze when getting the staves on a barrel ready for the top.

https://books.google.com/books?id=lSVMWpzqfNgC&lpg=PA212&dq=cooper%20plane%20used%20upside%20down%20making%20barrel%20staves&pg=PA212#v=onepage&q=cooper%20plane%20used%20upside%20down%20making%20barrel%20staves&f=false

It's also possible based on the offset blade configuration that this was used as a combination howel and croze. Run the plane around the barrel staves one way to create the shallow hollow, and run it the other way to cut the narrow groove for the bevelled barrel head.


----------



## RWE

DevinT:

I just happen to have the Garrett Hack book and I think you may be correct. It is the only thing that makes sense as to why a user would modify the coffin smoother. I am in the process of cleaning the iron and I will restore the wood a bit, seal some cracks and such and see how it performs.

I used to watch "The Pickers" quite a bit and one of those fellows had an operating principle that went something like this "if you see something unusual, buy it and figure it out later".

I did go online and Google #3 Sandusky and it is always shown as a typical coffin smoother. So it has to be a user modification.

Worse case is my $15 purchase reacquainted me with the Hack book, which I may need to reread a bit.


----------



## donwilwol

Ok. Who messed up the formatting? I really wish they would fix the issues with this software!!


----------



## HokieKen

That would be Devin this time Don. Mos' gets a pass for once.


----------



## DevinT

Oh, I saw mention of this in another thread … I'm sorry for that. I'll be more sensitive to the effect long links have on mobile (I myself browse the site on mobile when I am out walking the dog and similarly lament the formatting issue)


----------



## Lazyman

Devin, Just use the brown link button (between img an I) to create a link. You highlight the text you want to use for the hyper link and paste the URL into the pop up box.


----------



## rad457

Dang, just bought a Craftsman plane, not really sure why?


----------



## Lazyman

I bought a Craftsman plane before I knew even a little about what to look for when buying them. The cool thing I discovered later is that it has a Hock blade in it.


----------



## HokieKen

Most Craftsman planes were made by Millers Falls or Sargent IIRC. So you probably got a good user


----------



## Notw

I pulled out my 5-1/4 this weekend which I just restored a few months back and noticed a little bit of surface rust on the sole. What do you guys use for protection on your planes? I was thinking of just using paste wax but wanted to see if there is something better I am unaware of first.


----------



## HokieKen

I give mine a light wipe with oil before I put them back in the till Notw. Paul Sellers recommends 3-in-1. I use CRC 336. Just a light oil with anti-corrosive properties that won't leave residue on the wood. I also keep my soles waxed with paraffin while in use which may help some.

All that said though, I still get some flash rust from time to time if a plane sits in the till for a long time between uses (looking at you #3 size). It's just the nature of the beast here in the southeast with cast iron in a garage with no air conditioning.


----------



## Mosquito

> That would be Devin this time Don. Mos' gets a pass for once.
> 
> - HokieKen


But to be fair, my last one was on purpose :-D

I rarely every use LJ on my phone, because it's been so historically terrible. I never got in the habit of using it on mobile, and now about the only time I do is when I want to directly upload an image to LJ instead of hosting it on one of my sites


----------



## HokieKen

I've figured out a pretty good work around for all of the issues with the mobile site other than the fact that full links break the page. Even that is workable in landscape mode but landscape mode sucks.

Not to worry though, I think I have most everyone trained now ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

On the subject of surface rust, I haven't historically done much of anything… I just run a dehumidifier in the summer, and it's so dang dry in the winter with the heat that it's mostly a non-issue for me. I do try to keep the dust blown off from time to time though.


----------



## HokieKen

> Oh, I saw mention of this in another thread … I m sorry for that. I ll be more sensitive to the effect long links have on mobile (I myself browse the site on mobile when I am out walking the dog and similarly lament the formatting issue)
> 
> - DevinT


Just to be clear, I wasn't picking on you Devin. You had no way of knowing we're dealing with AOL-era code here ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

By work around do you mean you whine about?


----------



## Notw

> By work around do you mean you whine about?
> 
> - Lazyman


LOL


----------



## Lazyman

> Oh, I saw mention of this in another thread … I m sorry for that. I ll be more sensitive to the effect long links have on mobile (I myself browse the site on mobile when I am out walking the dog and similarly lament the formatting issue)
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> Just to be clear, I wasn t picking on you Devin. You had no way of knowing we re dealing with AOL-era code here ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Or a bunch of old dinosaurs who know what AOL was.


----------



## HokieKen

Yes, that's exactly what I meant by workaround. And at least I don't still have 200 AOL CDs that they sent me in the mail. Probably.


----------



## DevinT

HokieKen,

The Internet wasn't a thing until I was in high school, so we're cool. My parents used AOL, while I preferred to go down to the local college and get on the "real internet" served by an OC3 sonnet ring (showing my age here).

My Biology teacher taught me HTML 1.0 and I was stumped on how to make HTML forms work, and so went to Borders book store and picked up the 1996 Special Edition Using Perl for Web Programming by Que publishing and taught myself CGI and Perl-no easy task when the Internet was only about 1 year old and forums weren't even a thing yet. My home library has rows and rows of computer books.

If someone told me this site was programmed in Perl, I would probably lose my mind (huge fan of Perl and still use it to this day-though I occasionally have to fight my colleagues that rewrite my Perl into Python while I rewrite their Python into Perl).

I actually dig the CGI based interaction. I know REST API's and "Rich" HTML5 based websites are all the rage, but logging in here felt like greeting an old friend.

Not to mention, that when I point my Dad at the website so he can see my projects, it's in a format that he recognizes. He's a retired railroad engineer that resisted getting e-mail until about 2010 (hoping he doesn't find this message and correct me, lol) and somehow I imagine that he can more easily navigate the old-style websites easier than the new rich fancy interactive ones.

Oh, and hey, I found that if I turn off JavaScript on my browser, the site still functions and all the ads disappear, heh. The ads don't bother me though, so I leave them on (got to make you some money, after all).


----------



## controlfreak

> Most Craftsman planes were made by Millers Falls or Sargent IIRC. So you probably got a good user
> 
> - HokieKen


I was looking at my fathers Craftsman plane and my Stanley Bailey No4C and they are very close to being twins. I ned to get a picture for you.


----------



## DevinT

I would like to tackle the topic of both flash and non-flash rust, as I recently handled this in my shop.

First, let me extoll that I had this problem and tried several things. I resisted what people told me about paste wax, and, spoiler-alert, you really want to use paste wax (US) or machine wax (UK).

I can also add that it doesn't matter which paste wax you use. I went to the store and they were all sold-out of the regular and the guy tells me I can try the "special dark" but he's not sure if it will work the same or if will leave a color. Rest assured, use whatever Minwax finishing paste wax you want. The special dark dries clear.

Now, I'd like to share some detailed pictures of me cleaning up my Veritas No 4 smoothing plane and Starrett combination square. The former had developed flash rust despite being oiled (oil didn't do it, paste wax does).

(below 3 images) Flash Rust on the sides (sole was fine)!


























(below 2 images) After scouring with a generic medium (maroon) ScotchBrite pad with long even strokes the entire length of the body.


















Nice and shiny.

(below image) Applying the special dark Minwax finishing paste wax (again, don't even worry about it being "Special Dark")










(below 4 images) After the paste wax dries, I buff it out and here is how it looks. I treated all exposed steel. Any steel that didn't have mill scale on it got scoured and waxed.


----------



## HokieKen

Scotchbrite and Paste Wax are two things that are always stocked in my shop Devin. The only reason I don't use paste wax on planes is that it seems to wear off pretty quick in use. I do use it on all of my cast iron surfaces on all of my power tools though.

And regarding your previous post, I'm just an ME. I don't understand all those big words ;-)


----------



## DevinT

Non-flash rust, my Starretts had been getting rusty because I tried several finishes that just weren't doing what paste wax does.

(below 2 images) Example, my Starrett center attachment and 24" rule:


















That's about 6 months of rust development. I haven't cleaned those yet, it's on my to-do list.

(below 2 images) I have however recently cleaned the 6 months of rust off of the combination square head, and here's how that turned out:


















Make sure you catch it before it goes too long or you'll get pitting. 6 months is a little long, by the way.

Also note that once I applied paste wax, no rust has returned. Not even flash rust. Not even after casual use. It's been 30 days since I treated it and not one spec of rust.

I do expect that I may have to go in and add some more paste wax, but I plan on doing that before I see the first spot of rust. If I see rust, I will have to wipe down with mineral spirits to remove the existing paste wax, scour lightly, and re-wax. I think it's far better to put another layer of wax on before you see the first spot of rust.


----------



## HokieKen

> Most Craftsman planes were made by Millers Falls or Sargent IIRC. So you probably got a good user
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> I was looking at my fathers Craftsman plane and my Stanley Bailey No4C and they are very close to being twins. I ned to get a picture for you.
> 
> - controlfreak


It's very possible that Stanley made planes for Craftsman as well. I imagine the information is on DonW's site but I haven't gone digging yet.


----------



## DevinT

HokieKen,

ME = Mechanical Engineer?

Guessing based on my own background in electrical engineering where we called it EE


----------



## HokieKen

Yes, ME=Mechanical Engineer. And as we ME's refer to them, EE=Black Magician ;-p


----------



## DevinT

Kenny,

I was so frustrated with the Veritas. I would pick it up, hold it, and set it back on the shelf. Come back the next morning and rust everywhere that I touched. Guess I'm salty ;D

Without paste wax, I can't even handle the thing without rust developing. At least with some paste wax on there, I can actually pick the thing up and move it without gloves. So, every time I am done using it, I come back a day later and check for rust to see if I need to wax to prevent rust from building in-between uses.


----------



## Mosquito

I also use paste wax for my cast iron surfaces as well, tablesaw/bandsaw/pin router tables, lathe ways, jointer and planer beds…

I also use a mix of paste wax and mineral spirits for cleaning wooden parts too, like totes/knobs, saw totes, brass bound folding rules, wood handled squares, stuff like that. Apply and rub in with a red scotchbrite to give it a good scrub


----------



## HokieKen

Wow Devin, that's rusty. I would almost wonder if your plane wasn't heat-treated properly when manufactured. Normally cast iron has some sort of an oxide treatment to give it some anti-corrosive properties. Is it just the Veritas or do you have similar issues with other planes?

Mos, I use scotchbrite and MS to clean wood too but never thought to put paste wax in the mix. I'll give it a go next time.


----------



## DevinT

Kenny,

My neighbor can't tell me when he purchased it before he gave it to me, but he definitely knows it was pre-2017 (which I grilled him on, because it has Bubinga handles which, due to CITES appendix 2 which added Bubinga to global export restrictions in 2017; Veritas will only ship torified maple handles to the US now (angry face).

He also said that the Custom planes weren't even an option back when he purchased it. Can't say, but it's entirely possible that it was processed differently or poorly.

The Veritas apron plane purchased around the same time has a similar issue but not as pronounced.

The $20 el-cheapo palm-sized block plane I bought from a big box store, hanging on shelf in a blister pack, no rust.

The $200+ Starrett combination square with attachments? Even more rust prone than the Veritas.

So I don't think it's the shop, I think I've just got varying degrees of quality, unfortunately.


----------



## HokieKen

In the case of the Starrett, because of the precision required, it would have been finish ground as the last process. Any heat treating after that could affect the flatness/squareness. My Starrett squares are bad for rusting too. They definitely get scotchbrite and paste wax on a regular basis.

Try some CRC 336. It's an anti corrosive oil. I'll clean stuff up and then let it soak overnight in the CRC then wipe it dry and apply paste wax. It definitely keeps the rust at bay longer than using the paste wax alone.


----------



## rad457

> Most Craftsman planes were made by Millers Falls or Sargent IIRC. So you probably got a good user
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> I was looking at my fathers Craftsman plane and my Stanley Bailey No4C and they are very close to being twins. I ned to get a picture for you.
> 
> - controlfreak
> 
> It s very possible that Stanley made planes for Craftsman as well. I imagine the information is on DonW s site but I haven t gone digging yet.
> 
> - HokieKen


With out having it in hand to verify, appears to be made by Stanley, what is this "rust" thing you all talkin about


----------



## DevinT

I have been trying to get my dad to scrounge through his workshop to find his grandfather's hand planes. I would love to rehab some family heirlooms.


----------



## Ocelot

> Yes, ME=Mechanical Engineer. And as we ME s refer to them, EE=Black Magician ;-p
> 
> - HokieKen


Wrong!

EE stands for *Excellent *at *Everything*!

;-)


----------



## bandit571

The funny thing about Any plane from Sears…..it all depends on who had the winning bid that year…..

Sitting Stanley Handyman #4 beside a Sears Companion #4…...other than the lever caps, they are the same plane….well, you'd have the Handyman logo on the iron, or the Sears Companion Numbers on the other iron….

Fulton and Dunlap were house brands of Sears…before they changed to the Craftsman, Companion lines….

Weird ones are the red lever caps, with the black "SEARS" stenciled on it….


----------



## Notw

> I have been trying to get my dad to scrounge through his workshop to find his grandfather s hand planes. I would love to rehab some family heirlooms.
> 
> - DevinT


Getting a Bailey No. 4 that was my grandfather's is what got me into this mess in the first place. Now the darn things keep following me home. There is something really cool to me to restore a tool that sometimes is over 100 years old and think of how many people used it and how many projects were built with it over the years, then have it back into good working condition for hopefully the next 100 years.


----------



## HokieKen

> Yes, ME=Mechanical Engineer. And as we ME s refer to them, EE=Black Magician ;-p
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> Wrong!
> 
> EE stands for *Excellent *at *Everything*!
> 
> ;-)
> 
> - Ocelot


If they were excellent at everything, they would be MEs Paul.

;-P


----------



## Berto

> What do you guys use for protection on your planes? I was thinking of just using paste wax but wanted to see if there is something better I am unaware of first.
> 
> - Notw


This is my go to…..


----------



## RWE

Here is a weird experience for you. I have come into a completely new level of appreciation for the first plane I bought back in the mid-80's. Newly married and settling into a "new to me" house, I needed to plane some door edges, so I go to Sears and buy a Stanley #4. In my childhood I had used Jacks and Smoothers, but they belonged to my father's Forestry company. So it was the first plane I owned.

About 7 to 10 years ago, after years of power tool woodworking, I got into the hand tool thing. I now have about 30 to 40 or so hand planes of all types, wood, transitional and metal.

I would look at my Plastic handled #4 Stanley with great disdain and kind of smirk at it. I thought several times that I might just throw it away. It was offensive.

So a few months ago I made a serious shooting board and planned to dedicate a plane to it. I work small, so a smoother was going to be fine, maybe a jack.

I started trying each of my early Stanleys, Bedrocks, Keen Kutter's etc. and not one was 90 degrees square on the side. Most had a center belly on the side.

So I grab a Sargent VBM Jack and it is square, but I don't want to use it and mess up the refurb job I did to it. I finally grab the *Made In England Stanley Mid-Eighties Plastic Handled smoother* and it is dead to rights 90 degrees.

I looked at Don W.'s TimeTestedTools a bit and he has an article on Made in England Stanleys.

I had a mid Seventies Record Jack that I sold, but the two were comparable in casting quality. It made me wonder if Record made the Made In England Stanleys.

Not much information on them and they do not show up on the timelines and typing flow charts.

Moral of the tale. "Do not scoff at your lowly plastic handled "disco era" plane". It will make a good shooting board plane.


----------



## HokieKen

I would never scoff at plastic-handled planes RWE ;-)


----------



## RWE

You remind me of a proud parent wanting to show off his kids. LOL.

If anyone has more info on Made In England Stanleys, particularly if they were made by Record or in a true Stanley factory, I would be interested.

Calling The Brit. Calling the Brit. Need some other side of the pond perspective here.


----------



## Ocelot

RWE,

Similar story here. 1985 from Walmart probably… blue plastic-handled Stanley No 4. It planes just fine. When I bought it, however, knowing nothing about planes, I didn't know I had to sharpen it first. So, I was planing the top of a sticky door - including the veritical stile (end grain on top) and it was not a beautiful experience. But I got it done and put that plane on the top shelf of the closet which was right behind the door that I was planing and it stayed there for 20+ years before I built my shop and remembered it and put it out in the shop somewhere.

Only after I had worked up a few antique Bailey's did I get that thing out and sharpen it (for the first time in it's life). It works as well as any antique bailey.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmmmm..









One was sold at Sears….the other was a Stanley..









Hmmm…


----------



## Johnny7

In the period from about 2009-2014 (when hand tool value was not nearly so well-understood) I spent 3-4 days a week driving miles and miles and hitting every estate and garage sale for a 50 mile radius.

For next to nothing I acquired literally tons of planes, chisels, saws, miter boxes, etc., etc. So much in fact, that I still haven't begun to go through all of it.

I say this by way of background, because today, while going through one of a dozen "planes" boxes, looking for a particular part, this little block plane caught my eye:

(apologies for lack of focus)









Not a particularly nice example, nor rare plane (I believe it to be a Type 3, No 9½ (1875-79) but it's the iron inscription that caught my eye. I thought others might want to see it.


----------



## Notw

> In the period from about 2009-2014 (when hand tool value was not nearly so well-understood) I spent 3-4 days a week driving miles and miles and hitting every estate and garage sale for a 50 mile radius.
> 
> For next to nothing I acquired literally tons of planes, chisels, saws, miter boxes, etc., etc. So much in fact, that I still haven t begun to go through all of it.
> 
> - Johnny7


That must have been nice, I got into collecting these apparently too late in the game and with a Bailey No. 4-1/2 being next on the list they are not going cheap.


----------



## controlfreak

I had a similar experience with my fathers plane, hitting that end grain on the top of the door was brutal. Now that I can sharpen it works so much better.


----------



## Johnny7

> In the period from about 2009-2014 (when hand tool value was not nearly so well-understood) I spent 3-4 days a week driving miles and miles and hitting every estate and garage sale for a 50 mile radius.
> 
> For next to nothing I acquired literally tons of planes, chisels, saws, miter boxes, etc., etc. So much in fact, that I still haven t begun to go through all of it.
> 
> - Johnny7
> 
> That must have been nice, I got into collecting these apparently too late in the game and with a Bailey No. 4-1/2 being next on the list they are not going cheap.
> 
> - Notw


It's like that with all things collectible, right?
Think of the guys who had the foresight to scoop up all those '60s musclecars when noboby wanted them. (a few years back, a '71 Hemi Cuda went for 3.5 million at auction)


----------



## Notw

true i remember bitcoin being worth almost nothing and then thought about investing when it was around $1200 each…now they are over $50,000 each SMH


----------



## donwilwol

> What do you guys use for protection on your planes? I was thinking of just using paste wax but wanted to see if there is something better I am unaware of first.
> 
> - Notw
> 
> This is my go to…..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Berto


Mine to


----------



## corelz125

My first stanley was a plastic handle #4 took some tuning but it works just fine. That seems to be the story for many many planes. A person buys it for a certain job uses it a few times it gets dull and they throw it to the back of the closet or under the work bench and sits for years. Just think of all the planes that have been thrown away because it didn't work just because it wasn't sharp. Rust on my planes is a losing battle. No climate control in my shop. I put silica gel packs on them to try to control some of it.


----------



## bandit571

First No. 4 plane? One of them plastic handle Great Neck No. 4s….with the finger grip rear handles…..POS.

Also a blue bodied, chrome capped Stanley #110….

First Jack plane? Stanley No. 126…..and it needed a new rear handle, to boot.


----------



## RWE

Post 6696 above I posted about the Plastic Handled Made In England Stanley #4 that I bought in the Mid-Eighties. It was my first plane.

Here are some photos. Outside of the handles, it does remind me of a Record.

I put in the Veritas PM-V11 iron and use it for a shooting plane, small boxes, drawer ends etc. As I mentioned, it was perfectly dead square (90 degrees) and outside of a Sargent VBM Jack, it was the only plane in my collection that would not require a whole lot of lapping to square up.

I would be curious if some of you fellows with big collections would check for 90 degree square on your planes and see how many and what brands are square. It matters not unless you want to use it for a shooter, but just curious.










I guess by 1985 we are all cretins so they show an image of the bevel and say 25 Degree for Grinding on the <stanley> Made in England iron.


----------



## RWE

Post 6652 I posted about a Sandusky #3 (8 inch Coffin Plane) with a curious modification that made it into a sort of rabbet plane, or perhaps a cooper's howel.

I was cleaning it up tonight and pulled the iron out of the Evaporust and saw that the iron was a Buck Brothers iron. I have never seen one before. Like everything I have never seen before, I guess they are somewhat common place. If you have one chime in. Just curious.










I wish this software would not automatically rotate the picture orientation.


----------



## corelz125

I have a couple of buck brothers chisels. Not the home depot ones. I wonder if the union x planes are square.


----------



## RWE

One of my favorite vintage chisels is a Buck Brothers. I guess it is termed a paring chisel, since you can lay it flat on the bottom and not touch the handle to the surface.

Just don't think I have ever seen or heard of a Buck Brothers plane iron. Quite a surprise.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Why does the body of the plane have be be dead on 90º between side and bottom to be used on a shooting board?


----------



## RWE

Technically it doesn't. You can adjust the plane iron. *However, if your planes, nearly every other Stanley that I tried have a belly in the middle of the side, that is not good. * You would have to lap out the concave and get a flat side or the plane *will rock back and forth* and be useless for shooting.

Between you and me and rock and a hard place, I was not interested in that much lapping and sanding.

In my mind, with all the attention on having a flat sole and how that sets a well made plane apart from a poorer quality plane, it stands to reason that the sides should be perfectly flat if not 90 degrees to the sole.

I am simply asking for a kind of a poll to see if my collection of vintage Stanleys are the norm with bellied sides, or not.

I love the older planes and would not trade them for the world, but they don't make good shooters, at least mine do not. In reality, they were not manufactured for that purpose, so no big deal. Just seems odd that they are not square.


----------



## HokieKen

Chances are they were machined fairly square to the sole at munufacture RWE. But thin walled cast iron will move a little bit over a century or so. I have found the same to be true with a slight belly near the center on the planes that I've checked. It's also possible that when machined, the way the castings were held caused them to flex so they weren't ever flat to begin with.

FWIW, I did lap one plane flat and square on the sides. I wouldn't do it again unless I had a damn good reason.

I have a shooting board planned that I haven't gotten around to starting yet but it's one of the main reasons I bought the Veritas LAJ.


----------



## donwilwol

I don't buy the "cast iron moves over time" argument.

On average, Sargent planes are flat and square, and they're 100 years old too.

On average Stanley planes need work in both areas.

I obviously have tuned a lot more Stanley planes than Sargent planes, just because there are more of them, but I've got to the point if I have. sargent I assume it will work as it is, and if it's a stanley it needs work.

What I have never been able to determine is if some of the ones that are close to perfect actually came that way, or if the craftsman of the day made them that way. Some guys believe the old timers didn't tune their planes. I think they did. They knew wood planes needed to be flat and true, and they made sure they stayed that way, why not cast planes as well?


----------



## controlfreak

A shooting board is on my list of things to make now that the plane till is almost complete. I guess I need to select a shooting plane to fit it around first. I keep telling the wife I am buying a low angle jack plane but she refuses to believe me.


----------



## HokieKen

That's an excellent point regarding Sargent vs Stanley Don. The only ones I've ever checked are Millers Falls which tend to have the same belly on the sides as RWE found on his Stanley.

You may be right about cast iron not moving over time too. However, long, thin-walled castings like plane bodies come with certain issues as far as warping and having non-homogenous composition throughout due to varying cooling rates within the mold and things like carbide formations. I have always considered it likely just because being a machinist, I know that it is most likely that the casting was held with the sole as a reference to machine the sides which should make them pretty square and relatively flat. However there are a ton of ways to skin that particular cat so it's entirely possible that the workholding/machining process put the belly in there.

Another possibility is post-machining heat treatment. Here at work, we do a process that involves heat treatment with steam to provide some corrosion resistance in all of our cast iron parts. It's a "trade secret" process so I won't go into more detail but, it does cause enough movement in the parts that after it's done, certain critical features like piston bores or sealing faces have to be re-machined to maintain tolerances. Perhaps some plane manufacturers had similar processes after which they re-ground the sole but not the sides? Maybe Sargent had a cold-treatment process so they didn't have the same issue?

Likely all questions that will go, for the most part, unanswered. It's a damn shame that the internet wasn't invented 50 years earlier so we could have gotten answers to such questions from the folks that were doing this stuff.

And I totally agree that craftsmen/craftswomen of the day would have tuned their planes. I have yet to meet anyone truly skilled in any craft from plastic model building to paper crafting to machining to woodworking that doesn't spend significant time and attention on tuning and maintaining their tools. And woodworkers seem to have a fondness for their tools that most other craftsmen lack


----------



## HokieKen

> A shooting board is on my list of things to make now that the plane till is almost complete. I guess I need to select a shooting plane to fit it around first. I keep telling the wife I am buying a low angle jack plane but she refuses to believe me.
> 
> - controlfreak


A LAJ is a good choice but if you were of a mind to make one, here is an excellent build from JayT on Don's site with detailed instructions. He uses donor parts from a transitional plane with some flat steel stock and wood to build an infill shooter. You could always make a pair and use one for the plane swap ;-p


----------



## RWE

Thanks for the feedback. On Blaster's question about whether it was necessary for the side to be 90 degrees I wanted to add this thought.

When I set my iron, I typically take a 1/2 or 3/4 wide board in the vise and take shavings on one side of the plane and then the other until they are the same thickness. I bought a digital device to measure the iron depth but have rarely used it, after i got more familiar with tuning a plane. The digital device works well if any one is considering something like that, ultra precise and fairly quick.

I would not want to have to change how I set the iron to use the plane in a shooting board. My expectation is that I simply lay it on its side and have a perfect 90.

So that was the assumption and I measured every Jack and Smoother and only found the modern Made in England Stanley and the Sargent to be 90 degrees. I think I measured about 8 or 10 Stanleys, back to the late 1800's, early Pre-WW1 and WW-II era planes and all had varying degrees of belly on their sides. I don't collect the later types, I am bigoted toward the earlier types. So I was somewhat shocked.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree RWE, I would choose a plane that was already square to use for shooting. Personally, when I first set up a plane, or after I sharpen the iron and put it back in, I use a digital height gauge referenced off the sole to adjust the lateral so that it's even all the way across. 









Then I use a board to do final fettling. The height gauge is a big help in getting dang close right out of the gate though.


----------



## RWE

I got my "dedicated for plane use" gauge from IGaging. I have the Wixey that you show and got it for router bit height and table saw etc. I had the IGaging first and needed the Wixey later for some precision work. The Wixey is certainly more versatile.

I forgot to mention that the Igaging device is magnetic. Stick it on the plane and adjust away. So that feature is better than the Wixey, but Wixey is more versatile with other setup tasks.


----------



## HokieKen

That Wixey is magnetic too RWE ;-)


----------



## RWE

Have not used either in a while. I feel a strong "influence" to add them back to my methodology.

I kind of had the idea that the old timers did not use that sort of stuff and that I should not. However, the old timer that I speculate about probably was a tradesman and could adjust a plane in his sleep. When I get in the shop, more and more infrequently it seems, I could probably use the help those measuring devices provide. I have paid my dues and Paul Sellers would be proud of me, but why not use those aids now!!

I don't have the ME degree, but I agree precision is precision.


----------



## HokieKen

For the record, I wouldn't call that Wixey "precision" ;-) It is plastic and has a resolution of .002" after all. But, as a quick check, it does the job and won't damage the edge on the iron (my main reason for choosing this one - the plastic edge on the sliding section).

You're right, tradesmen a century ago would not have used them. Know why? Cause they didn't have them ;-) If you ask me, anything that would have given them better results or gotten them back to work faster is something they would have embraced.


----------



## RWE

Stumpy Numbs on the this topic, digital measuring tools.


----------



## rad457

I use the Krenov method, hard or soft tap on my Wood planes, when looking for absolute precision Hard = 1 thou.
Soft about a 1/2 thou.


----------



## bandit571

Next question…...WHAT is a Shooting Board?

As 99% of my cuts are square off the saw….I guess the back of the mitrebox will do…









Same with the miter cuts….


----------



## DevinT

In my opinion, a shooting board, while it does address angles/squareness, is more about actually using a plane at a desired angle than it is about making the stock square or angled.

If you don't have a miter box and you do have a shooting board, then you will be relying on the shooting board to square your ends. However, if you have both, you might want to shoot the ends with your plane after mitering to give them that finish-ready surface.

If your saw gives you that off the miter box, excellent. I personally like to shoot the ends just to give them that glass-like surface that really drinks-in the finish.


----------



## bandit571

Seems to be close enough…


----------



## RWE

I was in the Bandit camp before. But I am trying to improve my work and having those glass-like surfaces on the end grain became a goal. Also, I have been trying the knife wall, saw to the line Paul Sellers thing with handsaws. I have two 12 PPI panel saws and get very good and smooth edges (also use backsaws, typically 11 PPI). Unfortunately, I am not Sellers and my hand cuts often are not perfectly square, so the the shooting board helps correct that. Paul does that thing on the end grain where he uses a smoother to square the end to the knife wall and I can do that and have done it, but for me the shooting board seemed the better route.

Some of this depends on what you are building. I do small boxes and the glass-like end grain would really matter there. You do plane after assembly of the box, but it helps in getting good fits to begin with. Helps prepare the ends for dovetails as well.

The truth is, most of this is about the fun of woodworking and whatever comes along and grabs my attention is what I do. No right or wrong in either approach. I like my Stanley 358 but I also like the handsaws, just trying to exercise them all a bit.


----------



## RWE

Bandit:

I just understood your ending phrase: "A planer? I'm the planer, this is what I use."

I am a dimwit and just figured it out. The other day I was complaining to the cashier at an Antique store about not having and saws or planes etc. She says to me: "We have some planers in the back, in that black cabinet."

I should have quoted Bandit to her. Missed an opportunity.


----------



## DevinT

I think I would have made a crack along the lines of storing people inside cabinets.


----------



## HokieKen

What's wrong with storing people inside cabinets?


----------



## DevinT

There we go, I was having trouble coming up with a joke. How about:

"I guess you could store them in there, but what do you give those people for entertainment?"

To which she would probably be puzzled until you explained her oops ;D


----------



## rad457

> What s wrong with storing people inside cabinets?
> 
> - HokieKen


I do believe that lots of people are stored in Cabinets, most have bars on the doors


----------



## drsurfrat

I'd prefer to be stored in a bar, with no doors on the cabinets

hey, one groaner deserves another


----------



## Notw

They even feed you in those cabinets


----------



## 33706

...And the thread gets* Nub-ified.*...


----------



## controlfreak

I need a shooting plane for when I screw up the length by just a minor amount. Not enough to get another saw cut in. When using the table saw I would just keep shaving…...until it became to short. Rinse & repeat.


----------



## HokieKen

If you accidentally cut it too short just flip it around and take a little off the long end.


----------



## DevinT

I have built the hand plane of my dreams.

I purchased a ca. 1910-1918 Stanley No 8 type 11, put in a "new" type 11 blade, and installed new Bubinga handles that I finished with 9 coats of Danish Oil and a lavender & beeswax emulsion.


























































The leading 1" of the toe is a high-point and the rear 7" are another, meaning there is a significant low spot or hollow almost the entire length of the plane. I'll have to set up a lapping station to flatten the sole.

The iron needs sharpening. The cap iron needs some minor attention.

Once those things are done, I should be able to put it into use.


----------



## RWE

Hokie and JayT:

A LAJ is a good choice but if you were of a mind to make one, here is an excellent build from JayT on Don's site with detailed instructions. He uses donor parts from a transitional plane with some flat steel stock and wood to build an infill shooter. You could always make a pair and use one for the plane swap ;-p

I like that JayT blog on Don W.'s site on building an infield skewed shooting plane. That actually looks within reach, doable. Looks like a fun project. Work keeps interfering with my reading it, but I will study it a bit and may give it a go. I love the idea of using a transitional frog and iron. That takes the issue of needing the triangular files to set up the throat on a wooden plane out of the equation.

What I think you should do is make two or three and machine the parts and get them ready. Send them to me and I will do the epoxy work. That would be a good division of labor.

I have my demons to live with and buying a modern Shooting Plane seems defy everything that I hold sacred. But now building a plane, that is ok. I just deal with the instructions that are handed down to me, I don't make the rules. The biggest guideline is that old is good and new is bad. However, there seems to be an exception for carving gouges and chisels. LOL


----------



## RWE

Looks like a beauty DevinT. Good work on the refurb.


----------



## Notw

Is that original japanning DevinT?


----------



## donwilwol

Damn DevinT !! That's some plane porn for sure.


----------



## donwilwol

Damn DevinT !! That's some plane porn for sure.


----------



## DevinT

Notw, it is not, unfortunately.

2 coats of metal primer and 3 coats of modern stuff (japanning would have asphaltum, this does not)


----------



## donwilwol

> If you accidentally cut it too short just flip it around and take a little off the long end.
> 
> - HokieKen


is that the cut twice, measure once routine?


----------



## donwilwol

> If you accidentally cut it too short just flip it around and take a little off the long end.
> 
> - HokieKen


is that the cut twice, measure once routine?


----------



## bandit571

Seems to be an echo in here, today…..


----------



## HokieKen

Don's posting twice, typing once


----------



## Notw

Also, DevinT good luck lapping that sole, the sole lapping is why I believe my collection is stopping at a No. 6. LOL


----------



## RWE

Don speaks with authority, but can be somewhat redundant!


----------



## DevinT

Notw, how hard could it be?

Couldn't be more than a few weeks of sanding ;D


----------



## donwilwol

Didn't I just mention about how I wish they'd fix their software?

I didn't post twice, they just likes me so much they wanted it repeated.


----------



## rad457

> Didn t I just mention about how I wish they d fix their software?
> 
> I didn t post twice, they just likes me so much they wanted it repeated.
> 
> - Don W


So you only have 9968 posts?


----------



## Lazyman

With all this talk of squareness and shooting boards, I had to go see how square mine are. The Millers Falls I just recently cleaned up is literally perfect for both right and left shooting. My #7 Stanley (MI England) is square on the right for right handed shooting not on the left. The other Stanley's and #4 green Craftsman were all out of square but none of them had "bellies".


----------



## DevinT

I checked mine for squareness just now too. Stanley 8 type 11 not square against my Try square. However, it doesn't rock and the sole is presented at 90 whether I lay it on the right side or left. Veritas No 4 dead-square, all sides.

I don't know that the sides have to be flat and square, but I do know that the plane must not rock and must present the sole at 90-degrees.


----------



## HokieKen

The sides have to be flat-ish. They can have a center hollow but not a belly. If it's a plane dedicated to shooting, it doesn't have to be square because the lateral adjust can square the blade up even if the sole is slightly out. But, if the plane serves double duty, it has to be square on all 3 sides. I know the Veritas LAJ has the sides ground flat and square to the sole. Not sure if that's true of all Veritas planes or just certain ones?


----------



## HokieKen

That Heft and Hubris has some serious sexy slathered on it Devin! Looks like one of them Sansoo jobs.

Anybody seen that dude around? He signed up for the secret santa then just kinda dropped of the face of LJs…


----------



## DevinT

Looked at some of sansoo22's work and it's *very* nice. Looks like his last post to LJ was:

https://www.lumberjocks.com/replies/5356057


----------



## corelz125

I was wondering where he's been. He has disappeared before then reappeared. Nice looking #8. I checked the Union X4 I have. It is pretty square. Since the X series don't have a removable frog I wonder if that makes a difference. Anyone else have an X series to check?


----------



## HokieKen

If you didn't check out Sansoo's blog series on rehabbing planes, it's a good read Devin.

My shop is union-free Corelz. See what I did there? ;-)


----------



## corelz125

Sounds like there's some rats running around in there then Kenny. I wonder if Sansoo ever started his attempt at nickel plating.


----------



## Mosquito

hopefully attempting home nickel plating isn't why sansoo is MIA…


----------



## Mosquito

I believe I've only got 1 Union plane in my shop


----------



## Ocelot

Twice the pay for half the work plus 26 holidays?


----------



## HokieKen

I'll take it Paul!

That's a cool looking Union Mos. I like the full tote instead of just scales or a "hot dog" that slips over the web. How is it attached?


----------



## controlfreak

> Looked at some of sansoo22 s work and it s *very* nice. Looks like his last post to LJ was:
> 
> https://www.lumberjocks.com/replies/5356057
> 
> - DevinT


@sansoo22 rehabbed a No. 8 for me and he does a fantastic job! The No. 8 is on top because I screwed up and made the till a bit too small.


----------



## HokieKen

One last call for the HPOYD Secret Santa. Rules are here. I'll be finalizing the list and assigning names in the next week or so.


----------



## Notw

Control Freak I see that as less of a screw up and more of a design choice in order to showcase the work of Sansoo22. Very nice looking till


----------



## rad457

Question, on a #46 how long is the wooden fence supposed to be?


----------



## Lazyman

The original that is on mine is 9.5" long.


----------



## HokieKen

There were two different types of 46 Andre. Does yours have the center sliding section or just the main body and the fence? I'm not sure if the length of the wood was any different between the two but it may have been. I can measure mine tonight but it's probably the same as Nathan's.


----------



## Mosquito

Kenny, that Union is really a Siegley in disguise. It would have been after Stanley bought both Siegley and Union, before killing off Union

An earlier type Siegley No. 2.










I'll have to grab some better pictures later tonight, but it's got a screw from the top to remove it


----------



## Mosquito

> There were two different types of 46 Andre. Does yours have the center sliding section or just the main body and the fence? I m not sure if the length of the wood was any different between the two but it may have been. I can measure mine tonight but it s probably the same as Nathan s.
> 
> - HokieKen


The style with no separate fence and sliding skate castings didn't have a wooden strip, I'm not sure that there would have been a difference in fence length among the various types that had the rosewood fence


----------



## rad457

Strange, the one I have with no sliding skate came with a rosewood fence but after dismantling, noticed that when compared to my other one there is a 1/4" difference in length, only 9 1/4" so if original should be 9 1/2" maybe an add on? Going to have to check centering on the mounting screws, see if just one end trimmed off?


----------



## HokieKen

Does yours have the fence like Mos' shows Andre? If not, you may have the type that has the sliding skate that's just missing the sliding skate.


----------



## Peteybadboy

Devin that 8 is awesome.


----------



## DevinT

Petey, thank you. I am looking forward to fettling it today. Just picked up an 8' x 4" granite plate for $10 that should be long enough to tame the hollowed sole


----------



## Notw

DevinT does that say 8 feet? you can get a running go with that much distance


----------



## DevinT

LoL, yes, 8 glorious feet for $10.


----------



## DevinT

It's so long I would have to get on a ladder to get the whole thing in a photo, lol


----------



## Lazyman

That have been a backsplash. That is a great idea for a source for sharpening and lapping plates.


----------



## rad457

> Does yours have the fence like Mos shows Andre? If not, you may have the type that has the sliding skate that s just missing the sliding skate.
> 
> - HokieKen


Kinda what I'm thinking, the knob had the wrong screw in it as well. Mounting screw holes all match, looks like a 1/4" cut off one end. I have a skate like the one in Mos. Pic on it's way so will see what gets created?
Sure hope my blades are that shinny


----------



## HokieKen

Blades are on the way back to me from heat treatment. Should be here beginning of next week. I intend to do the finish grinding and get them shipped out by next weekend ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

I grabbed an old granite fireplace mantle that someone was getting rid of for my plane lapping needs. Still have it somewhere, but I've since picked up a countertop drop, around 24"x34", that I typically use for that sort of thing now, unless it's #7 or #8 sized


----------



## HokieKen

If I had more space and money, I'd just get a surface grinder.


----------



## BenDupre

> If I had more space and money, I d just get a surface grinder.
> 
> - HokieKen


There's an idea! You can pimp that out! Do automotive machine shops ever do plane lapping? or bigger like jointer bed/table saw lapping?


----------



## bandit571

This might take a while to rehab…









Side view….barely 6-1/4" long…









Top view..1-5/8" wide









Sole view…at least there isn't any cracks….cambered iron?









Might be worth the effort?

Picked this today, as well as the plane ( turned down a Great Neck #4)









Why do these always look like a crab?










Says it is a No. 51….iron has the clipped corner box logo….

Ever see a sash chisel…









Where the "back" looked like this?









Groovy, man…..

Along with a North Bros, No. 135….was my run-around day, today…


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny, that Union is really a Siegley in disguise. It would have been after Stanley bought both Siegley and Union, before killing off Union
> 
> An earlier type Siegley No. 2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ll have to grab some better pictures later tonight, but it s got a screw from the top to remove it
> 
> - Mosquito


So is that a fixed width plow plane? I don't see a sliding section and it doesn't look like the fence does double duty. Is the blade straight or skewed?


----------



## HokieKen

> If I had more space and money, I d just get a surface grinder.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> There s an idea! You can pimp that out! Do automotive machine shops ever do plane lapping? or bigger like jointer bed/table saw lapping?
> 
> - BenDupre


Automotive shops wouldn't typically have surface grinders Ben. The lapping they do is usually in valve cylinders and that's a whole different tool. Your local machine shop will have a surface grinder they could do a plane on pretty easily though if you needed one done. As far as larger stuff, it will just depend on the shop. Grinders big enough to do jointers or table saws aren't all that common. So unless a shop has a particular need for a a biggun that justifies the expense, probably not. When I was rehabbing my table saw several years ago, I considered having the table ground but I couldn't find a shop in driving distance that had the capability.


----------



## rad457

Mos has that 24" by 34" slab of Granite, throw on some honing compound an start stroking, ya know sort like flatten Water stones


----------



## Mosquito

haha, there you go Andre :-D


----------



## donwilwol

> If I had more space and money, I d just get a surface grinder.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> There s an idea! You can pimp that out! Do automotive machine shops ever do plane lapping? or bigger like jointer bed/table saw lapping?
> 
> - BenDupre
> 
> Automotive shops wouldn t typically have surface grinders Ben. The lapping they do is usually in valve cylinders and that s a whole different tool. Your local machine shop will have a surface grinder they could do a plane on pretty easily though if you needed one done. As far as larger stuff, it will just depend on the shop. Grinders big enough to do jointers or table saws aren t all that common. So unless a shop has a particular need for a a biggun that justifies the expense, probably not. When I was rehabbing my table saw several years ago, I considered having the table ground but I couldn t find a shop in driving distance that had the capability.
> 
> - HokieKen


As I understand it, the biggest issue with surface grinding a hand plane is holding it. It's easy with something like a knife, just magnetic it down, but a plane needs to be held without squishing the sides. Cast flexes, so you can't flex it and grind it, then it won't be flat. A few guys have made a special jig, but all those guys that I know of stopped doing it. (Got.to.old or died)


----------



## HokieKen

I have very little grinder experience but I would think that two vises and a couple well placed jacks would be all that would be required. I could be completely wrong though.


----------



## RWE

All this flattening the sole talk made me check YouTube. Ran across this Paul Sellers video where he uses a few techniques that I was not familiar with.

Sellers technique for flattening a plane sole

He files a chamfer on the rear half moon of the #4 he used as an example. He also does a "ruler trick" that I have never seen. Otherwise, pretty much the same stuff. May be worth a watch for some of you.


----------



## Johnny7

> Automotive shops wouldn t typically have surface grinders Ben.
> 
> - HokieKen


Not trying to start trouble here, but the OP specified "automotive *machine* shop"-in a previous life, I built many a fire-breathing street machine, and sent engines out for rebuilding. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a surface grinder was what they used to true up the faces of cylinder heads and the corresponding surface on cylinder blocks.
I'm no machinist though, and if these were not surface grinders, I'm more than willing to be corrected.


----------



## BenDupre

Johnny! That's my recollection. I have only done one cylinder head in my lifetime but I did take it to a machine shop to have the valves, and seats ground and the gasket surface lapped. I've heard of a lapping table, but I haven't seen one. Also recall from my time as a tech writer for a company that makes hydrostats the end caps and valve plates had to be lapped during rebuild.

This may be OT but I am in the middle of a Ridgid jointer rebuild where someone had painted the beds. I ground off the paint but it left me worrying if the tables needed to be resurfaced. I used a paint-removal pad on the grinder but I had to dig in because the bastard had also fully primed it before painting the tables. What a mess.


----------



## Mosquito

> So is that a fixed width plow plane? I don t see a sliding section and it doesn t look like the fence does double duty. Is the blade straight or skewed?
> 
> - HokieKen


No, the skate is on the opposite side


----------



## DevinT

I just lapped my No 8 by hand. Took 3 hours and it's flat.

500 passes:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1377411747393368064A few passes in realtime:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1377415300803489795500 more passes:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/13774224214650470441000 more passes:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1377438502757957635Results:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1377440884162060290
And it tests flat against my 24" Starrett ruler.

The leading 1" of the toe and the rear 7" of the heal were both proud leaving a concave in the center. I can guess by this how the person used it (I am only its second owner, if the seller is to be believed). I presume they set the toe down on the wood about 1" away from the front and lifted it about 7" before the rear. I cannot guarantee that I will use it the same way and fall into the same wear-pattern, so I'm flattening the whole thing. It was a banana when I started. Now it's flat.

While performing those 2000 passes, something came to mind:

If you make 2000 passes on an initial lapping operation, I can almost guarantee you that you'll fall into good planing form because your arms will be so tired you will have no choice but to use your body/legs (setting you up for proper hand planing method when you go to use it).

I'll just state right now, I don't mind repetition. And lapping a 100+ year old collectible hand plane? Totally worth it. Nearly killed me, and everything still feels like jelly, but, yeah, I did that!


----------



## HokieKen

Well done Devin! I'm well on my way to about that many passes on my Millers Falls 24 (same size as Stanley 8) but I've spread it out over about 2 weeks ;-) Had I done what you did, with the granite on the floor and me on my knees, I wouldn't be able to get up yet…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Did you by chance hit the arrow back button and then go back to your post again? I have done that only to find that it makes another copy of my post.



> Didn t I just mention about how I wish they d fix their software?
> 
> I didn t post twice, they just likes me so much they wanted it repeated.
> 
> - Don W


----------



## Mosquito

Sometimes I think the site has a retry policy in place too, where a call to post a new message might time out, so they try again, but then they both end up succeeding.

I also love it when the forum swallows a post because 2 people post at the same-ish time. One will just sorta disappear until another post comes in


----------



## HokieKen

> Not trying to start trouble here, but the OP specified "automotive *machine* shop"-in a previous life, I built many a fire-breathing street machine, and sent engines out for rebuilding. Correct me if I m wrong, but I believe a surface grinder was what they used to true up the faces of cylinder heads and the corresponding surface on cylinder blocks.
> I m no machinist though, and if these were not surface grinders, I m more than willing to be corrected.
> 
> - Johnny7


LOL, no need to worry about starting trouble with me. And you're absolutely right, I completely missed the "machine" in Ben's post. They do use a grinder to refresh mating/sealing faces on cylinder blocks/heads. But, it's more like a mill that uses a big abrasive disk instead of cutting tools. This is done so that the full width of the part can be ground in a single pass.









A typical surface grinder uses a comparatively smaller and narrower wheel and cuts on the circumference rather than the face. The width of the part covered by moving the workpiece over slightly after each pass. 









Surface grinders aren't always ideal for interrupted cuts and can't take a very heavy cut at all. They also don't typically have very large work tables because of the cost involved with keeping all of the axes in tram over the full travel range.

All that being said… It should be possible to grind a plane sole with an automotive grinder. But I'm not familiar with the machines so I don't know how versatile they are when it comes to workholding or what kind of precision they can hold. I imagine they're precise enough for woodworking though.



> Johnny! That's my recollection. I have only done one cylinder head in my lifetime but I did take it to a machine shop to have the valves, and seats ground and the gasket surface lapped. I've heard of a lapping table, but I haven't seen one. Also recall from my time as a tech writer for a company that makes hydrostats the end caps and valve plates had to be lapped during rebuild.
> 
> This may be OT but I am in the middle of a Ridgid jointer rebuild where someone had painted the beds. I ground off the paint but it left me worrying if the tables needed to be resurfaced. I used a paint-removal pad on the grinder but I had to dig in because the bastard had also fully primed it before painting the tables. What a mess.
> 
> - BenDupre


Getting the two tables flat is possible by using them to print one another and then filing/sanding/(ideally scraping) them to each other. Of course that doesn't mean they'll be coplanar when installed on the jointer necessarily. That seems like overkill though. Do you have a good straightedge you can use to check the tables?

Failing a simpler method, an automotive grinder has the size to grind your tables if you can find a shop that can use it for side jobs.


----------



## HokieKen

> No, the skate is on the opposite side
> 
> - Mosquito


Ahh now I see.


----------



## BenDupre

Kenny thanks for the photo. I don't own a straight edge but I ordered one. Will be here tomorrow. Then I can check to see if I did any damage. Seems to me a flat bed is one thing but critical is relationship to the ways. This jointer doesn't have any coplanar adjustments that I saw. If I do find a shop with a lapping table and if turns out I need one, ill bring my #6 and #7 along for the ride and they can throw them all on.


----------



## Johnny7

Thanks for that *HK*

my (limited) metal machining knowledge grows incrementally with explanations such as yours.


----------



## HokieKen

That's a blanchard grinder Ben. A third kind of animal and in the best choice for large parts. If you can find a shop with one of those that takes outside work, you'll be in business.

Regarding the relationship of the table tops to the ways, I believe on most jointers you have to use shims to correct for that.


----------



## DevinT

Ken, I didn't really have a choice. The granite dealer wasn't willing to cut it and at only $10 it was a steal. However, I don't have a bench that can fully support 8' of granite. Setting it on my current table results in bowing toward the floor at the ends which generates a convex reference.

The only way I could get the entire thing flat was to set it on my garage floor, which itself is not perfectly flat, so I had to shim in a few spots. It worked really well.

Now I have another problem. I'm not sure where to store this huge piece of granite. I tried cutting it with a hack saw and it laughed at me. I think after 5 minutes I had made a 1/64" dent in the corner. Before long I am sure the hacksaw would be ground to a nub.

Thinking about just supporting it on the ends with some short risers and smacking it with a big hammer to try and do a controlled break in the middle.


----------



## BenDupre

Just break it in half. Hit it with a brick hammer. Put something underneath as a fulcrum and pow. There must be 50 ways to break your granite…


----------



## DevinT

I was thinking, these things are prone to snapping when carried end-to-end horizontally anyways. Might as well just put a 6" riser on each far end and then push down in the center


----------



## drsurfrat

Believe it or not, that might break it into three. A fulcrum in the center is more controlled. And if you can score it with a hardened tool of some sort it will also help, although granite is 'multigrain' so there won't be a smooth surface.

The 3-piece break is a real possibility: it happens in spaghetti


----------



## BenDupre

Wow I knew that about Spaghetti. Do the three pieces form a golden mean? That would blow my mind.


----------



## DevinT

Well, I guess I got lucky. I got a clean single break.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1377714204497473536


----------



## controlfreak

I would score the break point, place a round rod under the break point, some heavy weight on one end and apply pressure on the other side that's in the air. A good dead blow may even be enough but you may want to have something to dampen the impact after facture. May also need to play around with the size of the rod if you get a lot of flex.

Or…you can do it your way.


----------



## DevinT

It's $10. I could afford to go pick up another one if I needed to. Also, I finished lapping before breaking it down (literally) for storage


----------



## controlfreak

> It s $10. I could afford to go pick up another one if I needed to. Also, I finished lapping before breaking it down (literally) for storage
> 
> - DevinT


I need to get a piece to start rehabbing my planes. Did you use only one grit and what size grit(s) did you use? Also where to get that long paper.


----------



## DevinT

LoL it's 6 pieces of regular paper taped end-to-end. I used 2" wide carpet tape to adhere the paper to the granite. Used only 150 grit. I would have preferred 120 but I didn't have any. I probably could have used 100 though.


----------



## Peteybadboy

Devin an angle grinder w a diamond blade will cut Granite like butter.


----------



## DevinT

I have a healthy fear of angle grinders, so haven't gone there yet


----------



## DevinT

I wish I could find a 5.5" or smaller diamond segmented saw blade that fit a 10mm arbor. Can't seem to find one for my circular saw


----------



## corelz125

Mk diamond makes diamond blades for cutting stone with a circular saw. I prefer the grinder. I have a piece of a bathroom vanity top that somebody left in a Lowe's parking lot. Couple years ago I was cutting 2" thick granite flagging. That put up a fight. Counter top is pretty easy to cut.


----------



## rad457

> LoL it's 6 pieces of regular paper taped end-to-end. I used 2" wide carpet tape to adhere the paper to the granite. Used only 150 grit. I would have preferred 120 but I didn't have any. I probably could have used 100 though.
> 
> - DevinT


Auto body supply stores sell self adhesive rolls of paper in many grits, I only have 180 an 220, more so for Wooden Krenov planes. By the way they are all perfectly square


----------



## DevinT

I looked into the cost of replacing all my sheets with rolls and it was several hundred dollars to get all the grits I have in self-adhesive roll-form. I gave up on that venture and just tape them together. Sure, if I just needed one grit in roll form, I might go for it. But I rarely ever buy just one of anything, and I tend to buy sand paper in bulk.

Grits: 60, 80, 100, 150, 220, 240, 320, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000, 5000


----------



## bandit571

The difference between a Junior Jack and a Normal #5 jack plane?









The #5 is a Sargent made for Sears….Junior is a Stanley No. 5-1/4….

Apron plane vs..









A Stanley No. 110…..even worse when it gets parked beside..









A Stanley No. 7c, Type 9…..

Not much more that I could have done for this sole…









Afraid it would get too thin….still can make shavings, though..


















American Tool & Foundry Co. not sure what model number…


----------



## corelz125

That little fella took a lot of abuse in its lifetime.


----------



## KentInOttawa

newsposttodaymag reported as spam
29 posts in 81 minutes


----------



## Mosquito

Obviously a little late as the deed is already done, but tile wet or dry saws of the handheld variety work for granite too.

+1 on rolls of adhesive backed sandpaper, that's what I use. Though sometimes getting them off the granite is annoying. I keep 100, 220, and 320 on hand usually, anything beyond that I don't really need in pieces bigger than what I can get at the home centers for what I do


----------



## HokieKen

Yep. I bought a water cooled slow speed circular saw with a diamond blade several years ago. It's come in handy more than enough to pay for itself.


----------



## rad457

I have 4" rolls of 180 and 220, getting old an small, some 3"-120 from Lee Valley that has the peel off backing that really sticks! have been using that up on push pads and push sticks My Diamond wet saw got purged last move along with the Cement finishing tools thank God!


----------



## controlfreak

I am thinking that if I get some 100, 220 and 320 grit and a good granite piece I should be good. If I need to replace the japanning I will need to find some sort of mini oven or sneak into the kitchen when the boss leaves.


----------



## drsurfrat

I mentioned this somewhere before, but my local granite shop appreciates me taking the broken pieces since they don't have to pay to dispose it. I don't take enough to really help them, but hey, it's free.


----------



## controlfreak

Good Idea @drsurfrat


----------



## corelz125

I have porter cable adhesive backed paper and bought these belts." https://www.amazon.com/Metal-Grinding-Ceramic-Sanding-Assortment/dp/B01H4AK2DI/ref=sr_1_3?crid=FPS0SXOD78KY&dchild=1&keywords=ceramic+belt+sander+belt+4x36&qid=1617392734&sprefix=ceramic+belt%2Caps%2C140&sr=8-3":http://https://www.amazon.com/Metal-Grinding-Ceramic-Sanding-Assortment/dp/B01H4AK2DI/ref=sr_1_3?crid=FPS0SXOD78KY&dchild=1&keywords=ceramic+belt+sander+belt+4x36&qid=1617392734&sprefix=ceramic+belt%2Caps%2C140&sr=8-3


----------



## HokieKen

Corelz hath sinned


----------



## Johnny7

> Corelz hath sinned
> 
> - HokieKen


If by "sinned" you mean his overly-loooooooooong hyperlink, then Yeth, he hath


----------



## CaptainKlutz

+1 Use the Red Label green coated ceramic (zirconia) belts in my shop. 
Last much longer than coated aluminum oxide on metal. If only need a couple belts, Red Label on Amadud is often cheaper than Klingspor ceramic thanks to Amadud free shipping.

*Corelz125* You only need to post part of link from Amadud. 
Can truncate everything after the 10 digit product ID, like this: 
https://www.amazon.com/Metal-Grinding-Ceramic-Sanding-Assortment/dp/B01H4AK2DI

FWIW - Mobile version of LJ does not tolerate long links, and is best to use link button while editing a post so everyone can enjoy the sharing of your information.

BTW - Part of the reference information in copied links is a unique encrypted ID tag of your Amadud account. We can now track all your Amadud links posted in any forum on WWW, and know that it is YOU. :-(0)
Big brother is every where….



> I have porter cable adhesive backed paper and bought these belts." https://www.amazon.com/Metal-Grinding-Ceramic-Sanding-Assortment/dp/B01H4AK2DI/ref=sr_1_3?crid=FPS0SXOD78KY&dchild=1&keywords=ceramic+belt+sander+belt+4x36&qid=1617392734&sprefix=ceramic+belt%2Caps%2C140&sr=8-3":http://https://www.amazon.com/Metal-Grinding-Ceramic-Sanding-Assortment/dp/B01H4AK2DI/ref=sr_1_3?crid=FPS0SXOD78KY&dchild=1&keywords=ceramic+belt+sander+belt+4x36&qid=1617392734&sprefix=ceramic+belt%2Caps%2C140&sr=8-3
> 
> - corelz125


----------



## DevinT

+1 for Red Label.

I have their 4×36 belts in 600, 800, and 1000 grits.
I have their 2×36 belts in 1000, 1200, 1500, and 5000 grits for knife sharpening.


----------



## corelz125

All,the cool kids were doing it I wanted to do it to


----------



## DevinT

I got this weird plane today. Never seen one like it before. I don't really know anything about it but it was cheap and looked fun.


----------



## HokieKen

I can't tell from pics Devin. Is it for rounding over sharp corners?


----------



## DevinT

Ken, that's what I think it is for. OK, so I'm not being silly … this *is* a weird plane, isn't it?

I find it interesting that the blades are at offset heights. The diagram in the paper says:

"FRONT BLADE APPROXIMATELY 1/32 BELOW REAR BLADE"

and

"REAR BLADE APPROXIMATELY 3/32 MAXIMUM ABOVE ROOT OF BRASS"

At the bottom it reads:

"NOTE: Like any plane, you have to watch for slash grain and generally develop a feel for the tool. Once mastered, the RADI-PLANE is an efficient method of rounding corners with an accurate radius faster and easier than with a router or sandpaper."

I see this as an alternative to using a spoke shave to round corners, I guess.


----------



## DevinT

I think this is the first time I've ever heard of "slash grain" ... I've heard of rip grain and reverse grain, but I've never heard of slash grain


----------



## DevinT

More pictures


----------



## donwilwol

There are so many styles of those radius or chamfer planes! Some look like a spoon, some look like a plane, some look like a medieval torture device. Some are called round over planes, some radius planes, some chamfering planes…..

Just type radius plane in Google and you'll see what I mean. Amazon has about a bazzilion of them. There must be people who collect hand planes or something .


----------



## DanKrager

DevinT, I've used that type of round over plane for many years. it's as handy as a block plane and takes a prominent place in my till. The two blades are offset so that full depth of cut is reached by the second blade, supposedly requiring only a single pass. Doesn't usually work that way so I take a "spring pass" to make sure. And as the instructions say, grain orientation is especially important because these are relatively deep cuts for a hand plane. Tiny, yes, but deep enough that tearout in cantankerous grain is a problem because of the deep cut and the fact that carbide cannot take as sharp an edge as steel. Still like to use it though because of its consistency.
DanK


----------



## DevinT

I gave it a go and quite like it. I definitely like the results and I found that if I gently roll it side to side over the sharp edge while going back and forth that it can take smaller bites. Definitely a keeper and I think an may be grabbing for it more often than I think. Thanks for the info!

The details on L.A. Mathers as a company seems pretty sparse but what I have been able to piece together is that they incorporated in 2010. I surmise that they are no longer in business. The planes are cheap and plentiful to come by though.

Video


----------



## HokieKen

I have one of those spoon type ones. Never found it particularly useful. I prefer a block plane or sandpaper. Or router if I need it larger. That molding plane style might prove more handy though.


----------



## Ocelot

I have Japanese and Chinese planes that do the same, but with only 1 blade.


----------



## DevinT

This summer the neighbor is sending over her son to learn the craft. I think I will put this in his hands and see how he likes it.


----------



## Lazyman

I had the Rockler version of that plane with a chamfer blade and I could never get it to make a good cut. Way too fiddly to be useful for me.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…









Nothing fiddlly about this one..


----------



## corelz125

Just found out Union is making planes again from the original patents. Unionmfgco.com.


----------



## DevinT

> Just found out Union is making planes again from the original patents. Unionmfgco.com.
> 
> - corelz125


!!


----------



## HokieKen

Interesting Corelz. Unfortunately, it looks like a vintage plane at LN/Veritas prices. I hope they can make a good run at it.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Huh! Plan E for the plane swap is someone's getting a shop-made radi-plane. Thanks for posting that, Devin!


----------



## BlasterStumps

I use a round over cutter same a Devin Shows. Used it quite a bit last summer when doing the balusters for the deck. Used the small router also for round over on that project.


----------



## corelz125

They're selling them for a lot more than you can find an original x series. The originals sell fast. Wonder if people buy them to use or to sit on a shelf.


----------



## donwilwol

> Just found out Union is making planes again from the original patents. Unionmfgco.com.
> 
> - corelz125


It's not Union, Robert Porter bought the rights to the name and patent. It's a brand new company using the old name. Most planes you have to pre order and wait

For planes like the very rare (like the #4 1/4 and x0) they'd be cheaper than an original, but they'll also probably never be worth the original.


----------



## HokieKen

Ahh, I didn't realize the originals were rare and valuable.

I hope Mr. Porter didn't spend too much on licensing an expired patent ;-)

All things considered, I'm happy to see another player in the game and hope he can stay in it!


----------



## theoldfart

Flagged, persistent little bugger.

The new Union plane is having QC issues. The least batch has pin holes in the casting.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks for the update Kev, are you following along somewhere? I'd be curious to follow along as well. I've not had a Union X series plane before, but they've always interested me


----------



## HokieKen

I don't know much about Union in general and know even less about the X planes in particular. What's the advantage(s) over standard planes? From what I saw on the site, it looks like a block plane style depth adjuster and pinned lever cap? And I seem to recall the vintage Unions having really beefy irons?


----------



## HokieKen

Pin holes in cast iron is not unusual for castings with relatively thin sections. They can often be mitigated by impregnation after casting though. I wonder if the issue is cosmetic or structural?


----------



## 33706

> I don't know much about Union in general and know even less about the X planes in particular. What's the advantage(s) over standard planes? From what I saw on the site, it looks like a block plane style depth adjuster and pinned lever cap? And I seem to recall the vintage Unions having really beefy irons?
> 
> - HokieKen





> Thanks for the update Kev, are you following along somewhere? I d be curious to follow along as well. I ve not had a Union X series plane before, but they ve always interested me
> 
> - Mosquito


Here's some pix of Union -X planes in my shop:


























A couple of U-502-X planes and a Union #6 X

note that there are two different iterations: The #6 has the vertical post with the round knurled jam nuts, the two transitionals never had vertical posts, but a divot in the casting shows where a drilled and tapped hole* should* be. A bit better control over yoke engagement/backlash compared to equivalent typical planes but that's it.

I see no advantage to using the X-series. The frog is integral to the base, so good luck adjusting the mouth. These resemble the Stanley Liberty Bell planes, which aren't so versatile either. But at least the Union-Xs have lateral adjustment capabilities. I've used the better of my U-502-Xs, It performs okay, sorta, but my #4s and #22s perform generally better in every way. Mine have cutters that are not particularly thick.

The Union X series is just a footnote in history. I wouldn't mortgage the farm to get my hands on any. I need a few parts to complete mine, and can hardly justify the expense, just to have them sit in my glass showcase.


----------



## corelz125

See they are in PA now also. Don do you know if they are only going to make the rare models or start making the normal size models?


----------



## Johnny7

https://www.unionmfgco.com/shop-online


----------



## Lazyman

I wonder if what the guy bought was the original Union casting molds along with the rights to selling under the name?


----------



## corelz125

Those casting molds like most things probably went right into a dumpster after they closed down the factory.


----------



## corelz125

I have a X 27 transitional that's similar to the metallic ones.


----------



## controlfreak

I decided since I was between projects I would rehab my Stanley No. 117? spoke shave. I started by flattening the iron but had to quit because I was getting too much blood on the lapping plate. Not real sure what edge was cutting me but it was in four places. Later I made a jig to hold the blade and dropped down to a 200 grit diamond plate and finally met success. Rest of the plane awaits.


----------



## rad457

> I decided since I was between projects I would rehab my Stanley No. 117? spoke shave. I started by flattening the iron but had to quit because I was getting too much blood on the lapping plate. Not real sure what edge was cutting me but it was in four places. Later I made a jig to hold the blade and dropped down to a 200 grit diamond plate and finally met success. Rest of the plane awaits.
> 
> - controlfreak


Wood block attached with 2 sided tape


----------



## donwilwol

I haven't followed the Union and don't know what the plans are. I sold all my x planes. They were ok, but adjustor is a bit time consuming for me. Some say it's better, but the Bailey style always did what I needed it to do.

I seldom buy new hand planes, so …........


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have an X No.4 Union plane. It works but could use a new blade and chip breaker. I have no idea how to date Union planes. This one has the patent numbers along side of the tote and, it has a short wooden knob.


----------



## donwilwol

> I have an X No.4 Union plane. It works but could use a new blade and chip breaker. I have no idea how to date Union planes. This one has the patent numbers along side of the tote and, it has a short wooden knob.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


FYI, the chip breaker is different on some ( maybe all) x series.


----------



## controlfreak

> Wood block attached with 2 sided tape
> 
> - Andre


Thanks Andre, I cut a shallow slot in a block but the tape sounds a lot easier.


----------



## HokieKen

IIRC, Paul Sellers had a video or blog on sharpening a spokeshave. It was basically what you did I believe but I think he attached it to a block with a screw and washer.


----------



## controlfreak

Won't fit in my honing guide so after getting the back flat I just free handed the bevel. Shaves hair so it is on to de-rusting and getting the bed clean.

On another note I pulled the lever on a Veritas low angle jack. I just couldn't take it anymore.


----------



## rad457

> IIRC, Paul Sellers had a video or blog on sharpening a spokeshave. It was basically what you did I believe but I think he attached it to a block with a screw and washer.
> 
> - HokieKen


Never one to refuse the chance to screw (maybe skip the washer) but usually alone in my shop An now the thought of Paul Sellers may be some what disturbing?


----------



## controlfreak

My bad, it is a No. 151 Spoke shave. The sole is not rusty and in good shape but looks like it has a very mild curve to it but almost flat. Not sure if it is natural wear or if it was made like that.


----------



## GrantA

I just got my first transitional! From what I can tell it seems to be a #28 Fore Plane made prior to 1915. The tote is loose but intact, the knob is cracked but all there so it's repairable 
I'm impressed how good the sole and mouth look! 
So- clean and tune it as a user or put it on a shelf to look pretty? I'm leaning towards making it a user even though it may not get a lot of use


----------



## DevinT

Couldn't find rolls of PSA sandpaper in 4" so bought some 100 grit stearated SunGold that is 4.5" wide in a 30' roll for lapping because I am pretty sure it will be more efficient than taping sheets together (not to mention built-in adhesive backing so I can save my carpet tape). Should make lapping faster. So far I am about half-way done lapping the sole of the Stanley No 8 after performing 2k passes over 150 grit and 5k passes over 100 grit attached to granite.


----------



## RWE

What is take on Diamond Edge planes? I had one almost ready to check out with it. It was a smoother. I think I remember some positive comments on those planes. Shapleigh Hardware. Who made them?

Any info would be appreciated.


----------



## Johnny7

> What is take on Diamond Edge planes? I had one almost ready to check out with it. It was a smoother. I think I remember some positive comments on those planes. Shapleigh Hardware. Who made them?
> 
> Any info would be appreciated.
> 
> - RWE


More than one supplier/manufacturer behind the "Diamond Edge" name.
We're gonna need photos.


----------



## RWE

This one did not have the "rubber/plastic" handle, but it was wooden and kind of plain, not well rounded, so I was put off by that. I figured it was a 50s/60's model. I was looking for a plane for the plane swap and decided against it. No pictures. May have been a Sargent. It has been in the same store for over a year and this is the second time that I have decided against bringing it home.

I figure the early ones that you can tell were made by Sargent may be good planes. I just read up on them. Only a few on Ebay.


----------



## bandit571

This came through the Rehab Shop a long time ago….DE-5









Seems to be a Sargent made plane…









Looks the same as a Sargent No. 414…..









The iron also had that diamond edge logo on it….


----------



## HokieKen

Okay all, here is the list of participants I have for the *HPOYD 2021 Secret Santa*:


sansoo22
theoldfart
HokieKen
Jeff
RWE
bandit571
Ted Tolstad II
Smitty_Cabinetshop
Mosquito
DonW
drsurfrat
Lazyman
ControlFreak
corelz125

If you thought you were signed up but don't see your name on the list, let me know ASAP. I'll assign recipients in the next week or so.


----------



## Lazyman

Has anyone reached out to Sansoo to see if he is alright? He hasn't commented on anything since January.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, I e-mailed him over the weekend to make sure before I finalized the list. He said he's still participating but has just been putting in long hours at work so hasn't been doing any woodworking/plane restoring for a couple months.


----------



## HokieKen

Speaking of e-mail… When I send out names, I'll do it via e-mail not PM. So make sure you check there and that it doesn't go to spam. I'll post here after e-mails have been sent out.


----------



## controlfreak

I have a Kobalt plane that would be perfect for this ;-)


----------



## controlfreak

I had been looking at the Bedrock planes thinking that they would be fun to collect. I had a 605 1/2 on my watch list that started at $10, it went for $650. I think I am done with vintage unless I find a yard sale treasure. I am waiting on my first premium new plane to arrive and thinking about selling some others to fund my habit.


----------



## Mosquito

Somewhere I have a buck brothers from HD…


----------



## HokieKen

I have one of those POS Stanleys I'll probably toss off on some poor sucker ;-)



> I had been looking at the Bedrock planes thinking that they would be fun to collect. I had a 605 1/2 on my watch list that started at $10, it went for $650. I think I am done with vintage unless I find a yard sale treasure. I am waiting on my first premium new plane to arrive and thinking about selling some others to fund my habit.
> 
> - controlfreak


That Veritas LAJ will certainly give you pause when you're shopping Ebay…


----------



## corelz125

Don W just loves handyman planes.


----------



## HokieKen

I forgot to put ComboProf on the list up there. So we have 15 players as of now


----------



## corelz125

So Kenny you get 2 guys?


----------



## HokieKen

I have no idea how to respond to that but I'm 99.9% sure it's with a definitive NO.


----------



## donwilwol

> Don W just loves handyman planes.
> 
> - corelz125


My fav!


----------



## drsurfrat

> Don W just loves handyman planes.
> 
> - corelz125
> 
> My fav!
> 
> - Don W


Ha ha, how do I politely mention what I don't want showing up on my doorstep?


----------



## donwilwol

> Don W just loves handyman planes.
> 
> - corelz125
> 
> My fav!
> 
> - Don W
> 
> Ha ha, how do I politely mention what I don t want showing up on my doorstep?
> 
> - drsurfrat


I think you just did


----------



## GrantA

Mike wants a handyman. Noted!


----------



## HokieKen

Mike and Don can share this one.


----------



## HokieKen

And tshiker is in for some secret-santa-ing. Sixteen and counting!


----------



## controlfreak

You lost the cape


----------



## controlfreak

Duplicate


----------



## adot45

What is HPOYD if I may ask? And what/where are the rules? 
Thanks


----------



## controlfreak

> What is HPOYD if I may ask? And what/where are the rules?
> Thanks
> 
> - adot45


Acronym for the title of this thread.


----------



## drsurfrat

> What is HPOYD if I may ask? And what/where are the rules?
> Thanks
> - adot45


Kenny is making the rules up as he goes. 

I think originally they are here in this thread starting at entry #5062


----------



## GrantA

Email sent
I'll play in the Santa Swap!


----------



## HokieKen

Here are the rules for the Secret Santa


----------



## HokieKen

Grant makes seventeen )


----------



## GrantA

It's not even legal til 18
8-/

Who else will join?


----------



## DevinT

I would, but I just don't think I can build a plane for $40 or less.


----------



## Lazyman

It's not build. It is refurbish a crappy old $40 plane (including parts) so that you would want to use it.


----------



## controlfreak

> I would, but I just don t think I can build a plane for $40 or less.
> 
> - DevinT


This kind of scared me into looking at the rules. I can build a forty dollar plane but it would take a $200 kit to do it.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, this isn't really geared towards plane-making. It's kind of a fun thing for when you're ebaying or rust hunting to try to score the coolest plane you can for <$40


----------



## HokieKen

Wow, this may be the best deal I've seen yet on Ebay…


----------



## Ocelot

Probably meant $4.30.


----------



## DLK

I don't think so. The shipping is free. Maybe he meant $45.00 (also too much).


----------



## Johnny7

The awkward listing title aside, the saddest part is that he thinks it's an antique.


----------



## HokieKen

He also thinks it's a bench plane…


----------



## theoldfart

And a corrugated sole to boot.


----------



## DevinT

Well, I mean, if we're allowed to just buy a plane and, for example, strip/refinish it, I guess I could pick up a Radi plane and participate. They're pretty cheap and I know I could stay under $40 that way. Hasn't the deadline for the HPOYD secret Santa already passed to join?


----------



## HokieKen

Nope, it's still open Devin. It's a moving target. The "real" deadline will be whatever day I decide to assign names and send them out ;-)


----------



## drsurfrat

> a fun thing for when you're ebaying or rust hunting to try to score the coolest plane you can for <$40
> - HokieKen


I got the vibe that we have all year to look for a hidden gem (not a POS) that is hidden by rust or missing parts…

I've seen three so far, a complete Stanley No3 in a lot that went for $28, a No40 scrub plane body for $10, and a No5 that I had all the replacement parts already for $20. Sorry Kenny, there were all Stanley  I'm going to keep looking for that No 1 for $5 at a garage sale.


----------



## HokieKen

If I find that $5 number one, it's not likely to make into Santa's bag ;-)


----------



## DevinT

Finding a $5 No 1:

Buyer: It's full of holes
Seller: What holes?
Buyer: From rust, eaten all the way through
Seller: What? No! Those are "speed holes," they make the plane go faster. Like race car drivers that put holes in their car to make it lighter.


----------



## bandit571

$40 sitting right here…









Not that hard to find, around here…sargent/craftsman jack, stanley no. 5-1/4…...


----------



## GrantA

> Here are the rules for the Secret Santa
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## corelz125

But that $450 bench plane is solid tool steel.


----------



## DLK

I had a nightmare last night that I was bidding on ebay and the auction went for $1,000,006. I woke up in a cold sweat and checked all my accounts. I didn't spend $1M but I think I will slow down on the spending. I think with spending on the Sorby proedge and Nova lathe and loads of accessories for both, I could have bought that Stanley No. 1. I must give my bank account a rest.


----------



## HokieKen

Don't give your bank account a rest Don. If you do that, it'll just get lazy.

For that kind of money, I hope it was a Millers Falls you were bidding on. Otherwise it's just plain crazy.

You have me curious now though, I wonder what the highest all-time selling price for a plane on ebay is? Not even sure how to go about using the search to find that out…


----------



## HokieKen

> It s not even legal til 18
> 8-/
> 
> Who else will join?
> 
> - GrantA


Devin makes 18. We still can't buy beer but I think we can legally purchase White Claw now.


----------



## GrantA




----------



## DLK

> For that kind of money, I hope it was a Millers Falls you were bidding on. Otherwise it s just plain crazy.
> 
> - HokieKen


Of course! What else is worth bidding on? (Actually that's the funny part about the nightmare. I don't have a clue about what I was bidding on. I think it was a psychological message, that I have been over spending.)


----------



## DevinT

Bring back Zima!


----------



## DavePolaschek

Oh my! Don't get Kenny started about Zima…

Perfect thing for hot summer days when even Hamm's tastes too thick, though.


----------



## rad457

Legal drinking age is 18 in Alberta Cannabis too? Can start work at 14 but need to stay in School till 16?
Going to cancel the Amazon Prime when it comes up for renewal, but found an Government on line auction site that may inflict some damage


----------



## corelz125

Zima is one of the things that are better off cancelled.


----------



## DevinT

I got to taste a cold Zima off the line in 1993 when my family toured the Coors plant in Colorado.


----------



## HokieKen

I think I can say without being overly dramatic that Zima was one of the worst things to happen in the history of our great nation.


----------



## bandit571

Followed by Golden Goebel….

Or…calling Mad Dog 20-20 a wine….


----------



## Lazyman

Brewery Tours. I miss those.


----------



## corelz125

Coors light is a poor excuse trying to be passed off as a beer.


----------



## DLK

^ Is just like making love in a canoe.


----------



## controlfreak

I always think of the article (joke) where the press took a sample of President Carter's brother's Billy beer to be analyzed. The results came back with a note "We regret to inform you that your horse has leukemia."


----------



## controlfreak

I guess my order for a LA Jack from Veritas got delayed after I fat fingered the card exp date, shipping Monday.

Gimmie Gimmie


----------



## corelz125

Little guy needed a new home.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice score Corelz


----------



## BenDupre

MOS

Did you sell all your type 11 to Martin J Donnelly?


----------



## Mosquito

lol I did not, but wouldn't mind it… I still haven't done anything with the rest yet… been too busy with other things to deal with it :-(


----------



## BenDupre

Tonight's auction is lousy with type 11 stanleys


----------



## DevinT

Still fettling my type 11 No 8 after 10 days and 17,500 passes on the lapping station. I sure do love the idea of rescuing a 1910-1918 Stanley, but sheesh, it is quite the workout.


----------



## HokieKen

Something's amiss methinks Devin. 17.5k strokes on sandpaper should get you through 1/8" of cast iron. How often do you change the paper? Do you clean it periodically? Careful that you use both arms too or you'll be Popeye on one side and Olive Oyl on the other.


----------



## BenDupre

> Still fettling my type 11 No 8 after 10 days and 17,500 passes on the lapping station. I sure do love the idea of rescuing a 1910-1918 Stanley, but sheesh, it is quite the workout.
> 
> - DevinT


I can't count that high.. Did you attach a pedometer to the lever cap?


----------



## corelz125

Way over thinking that #8.


----------



## GrantA

Yeah Devin if I recall you're starting about 100 grit, depending on the paper quality it might be toast after 50 strokes on that #8 
I read somewhere a while ago to use sandpaper like someone else is paying for it. It's the truth! 
Checkout trugrit for future abrasive orders


----------



## DevinT

I have started to notice after about 300 strokes it is toast. But it is so dang hard to get that PSA off the granite I just let it ride until it isn't taking off any marker. Also, after it is blunted, it still has life enough to polish up what was removed and make it shiny before I refresh the paper and go for another aggressive removal.

The sole was twisted, which was causing the most pain. After 17k passes, albeit sub-optimally (because I am the one paying for the sandpaper) I finally got the wind out of the sole and I only have 3 shallow hollows to take care of and this thing will be flat and shiny. Then it is up to 220 or 240 to polish it. Might go further. Might also dress the sides.

I predict though that once the bottom is flat I will probably move on to honing.


----------



## rad457

> I have started to notice after about 300 strokes it is toast. But it is so dang hard to get that PSA off the granite I just let it ride until it isn't taking off any marker. Also, after it is blunted, it still has life enough to polish up what was removed and make it shiny before I refresh the paper and go for another aggressive removal.
> 
> The sole was twisted, which was causing the most pain. After 17k passes, albeit sub-optimally (because I am the one paying for the sandpaper) I finally got the wind out of the sole and I only have 3 shallow hollows to take care of and this thing will be flat and shiny. Then it is up to 220 or 240 to polish it. Might go further. Might also dress the sides.
> 
> I predict though that once the bottom is flat I will probably move on to honing.
> 
> - DevinT


Sounds like ya need to either try pushing down or stop using grease as lube?


----------



## DevinT

I will admit I was not pushing down until about the last 1500 passes and I was thinking I might not get a flat surface if I inadvertently pushed harder on one side without knowing it. I also didn't have much upper strength to work with. When I had the granite on the floor at least I could use my body weight. However those first 2k passes hunkered down on the floor nearly killed me. Over the following days, I think the blind repetition at least helped me gain enough upper body strength that I can do a good 500 passes while pushing down. It requires a lot more strength but it does go faster. I really hoped it was heavy enough to uses its own weight working with gravity but that is a super slow process. Still, getting really close to finished now and it is getting really exciting. Plus, I have some experience lapping now and pretty much anything else I all will seem like small potatoes. I imagine lapping a small No 4 would be child's play now, or lapping a woodie, should be trivial.


----------



## Mosquito

This is why all my bench planes are corrugated lol


----------



## corelz125

I can't find it now but I watched one YouTube video of a guy lapping a #8. He only made a couple of passes flat to see the high spots. Then turned the plane upside down and sanded down just the high spots. Repeated that until it was flat.


----------



## DevinT

"We put grooves in the sole because it's easier to flatten that way, less metal to grind."

If your product was flat to begin with, you wouldn't need such a gimmick. I am of the mind that Stanley is actually an inferior product, and if it were not for the simple fact that you literally cannot buy a No 8 sized plane except for Stanley, I would have avoided it like the plaque. Seeming how Lie-Nielsen has dropped the ball and is practically (actually?) sold out of every plane they make - let alone the coveted No 8 - Stanley is the *only* game in town. Be that as it is, I went for the Stanley No 8 that looked like it was in the best condition.

I was fleeced.

The seller had made it look pretty but took exquisite care to never photograph the plane against a flat surface or from an angle that allowed you to see the real condition of the sole.

I am pretty pissed about it actually. The sole was banana shaped and twisted.

But, I'll be damned if I am going to give up on it. I didn't want a Stanley, I wanted a No 8. Getting in my opinion at least the only Stanley type that I would be caught dead owning (type 11), was the only option, and there was only one up for auction, so my hands were tied.

Would I buy it again? Sure. Lie-Nielsen still has zero plane stock to speak of. It might not be until next year until the No 8 is available again. Lie-Nielsen is, for the record, the only metal plane maker that even advertises a No 8, even if you can't buy one right now.

When it comes time to flesh out the rest of my collection, I can assure you it will not be with Stanley's. I knew enough to stay away from them and buy premium but again, that's simply not an option when it comes to a No 8.

I am looking at WoodRiver or Clifton for my No 6.

Does the sole of a No 8 have to be dead flat to work? Probably not, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that this No 8 I got off eBay would only create sprung joints, which is fine if all you want to do is edge glue wood all day everyday (and I argue that its ability to even do that was fading quickly). However, I need to mate boards on their faces and you can't (or at least should not attempt to) glue two boards with a hollow together on their faces.

Could I have settled for a No. 7? Maybe.

Lie-Nielsen is sold out of those as well.

In short, it's a real ********************-show for someone that is serious enough to need the tools.


----------



## Mosquito

I have had 4 #8s, only one is an actual Stanley, but haven't used it, so no idea how flat it is just yet (and may never). My first Keen Kutter KK8 made by Ohio was pretty good, and the new KK8 from sansoo is tip top, though I assume he flattened it before sending it. My Siegley #8 was also rather flat, and that was of an eta when they were made by Stanley, though with the Siegley patterns still


----------



## KentInOttawa

I picked up a vintage, wooden, skew rabbet plane yesterday. It's marked JNo Cockbain Carlisle (UK). My web searches revealed that he made planes around 1860 in the UK. Most of his planes that I've found online were plough planes with a few molding planes out there, too.










I took some oil and wax to it and have been letting those soak in and/or spread around. The screw arms are working more freely but still need some more effort. Here's a shot of the other side with the Chief Inspector photo bombing).










The iron that came with it is wrong on so many levels; it is a 3/4 inch blade when it should be a 1-inch blade, and the tang (or bevel) is on the wrong side. Let's not even talk about the profile. Here's a shot of the wrong blade overlaid on a standard 2-inch bench plane blade to see if I could make a better blade from that. Nope, not quite long enough.

It will also need a replacement slitter fabricated for it.


----------



## bandit571

Note: Millers Falls also made a #8 sized plane….called the No. 24…..though the No. 22 is a bit easier to find…

The Stanley I have, is a type7…..and it did indeed pass the 2 Finger test.

BTW: My feeler Gauge Set stays in the tool drawer, with the set of Craftsman Ignition Wrenches, where it belongs.

If and whenever I need to sand a sole flat,,,I find it much easier to power the belt than move the plane, taking care not to overheat the cast iron….
The before….ATF Apron Plane's sole..









And after about 15 minutes riding a 100 grit belt…









Not perfect…but the 3 main areas are coplanar with each other. And, once the iron is sharpened up..









Will indeed make decent shavings.

The biggest reason a #8 will look like it is twisted….after a 100+years of use, going along at a diagonal along a few MILES of wood, it slowly gets a bit worn in a pattern that matches the direction the users were pushing the plane.

As Patrick Leach is wont to say…..a perfectly flat jointer sole? Good luck, as there are no such things. Also..a plane the size of a #8…is NOT a smooth plane, and never was made for that type of work.

A Perefectly Flat Sole on a 24" long plane? Ranks right up there with those that think the world is flat….

If the previous owners/users went along at a skew…the trick would be to go along at a skew the opposite angle, where the non-worn "high spots" are on the wood…and, in about, say..100 more years, it will wear down to match the "low" areas. Also…wood will warp, cast iron will not, unless the shop had burned down around it.

About the only thing else the would affect a sole….if some ham-fisted operator should happen to drop a plane onto the brick/stone/concrete floor….









And something like this happens…..Sometimes, they would braze it back together….sole would still be "warpped". But, the plane could still be used…









At least until they could afford to buy a new plane. Might be a week ( next paycheck?) or the next year?


----------



## DevinT

Flattening the sole of my No 8 I was able to slowly see every detail of how the previous owner(s) used the plane. I can tell for example that they placed their left hand on the tote and the thumb of their right hand on the leading right side of the toe. This led to a very significant low spot on the toe where they placed their thumb and a low spot along the right edge of the sole. I could also tell you that they tended to set the plane down 1 inch from the edge of the toe and lifted it 7 inches from the edge of the heel. I could make a guess as to the height of the operators but there are other things to consider that might throw that guess off (like the stock length). Either way, it was clear that this plane saw a lot of action in the past ~105 years (plane blade has "V" logo circa 1915, though body could be as old as 1910 when type 11 first appeared).

Also while flattening it, I noticed some serious problems that required flattening. Problems that would have led to a kind of snipe at the end of every pass when the blade gets lifted as a high spot rolls onto the wood, lifting the blade out of the wood slightly as the body rises and changes angle. That type of action in a cut will also lead to tearout because there is nothing holding the fibers down in front of the blade.

The twist is most certainly from the way it was used and not atmospheric in nature. To remove it, I had to press down on opposite sides of the plane while sanding to lower the opposing high sides. The whole thing was hollow in the center from about 1" behind the front and 7" in front of the rear. Bringing down the sides to meet the hollow was the biggest part of the job. Both sides were very high which leads me to believe that this thing was only ever used for edge jointing and never for surfacing.

Over all, I think it's interesting that the metal records such detailed information like a record, that when I flatten the sole it plays like in reverse. I can see the miles of use in every hollow, low point, and pattern of wear. I quite like the idea that given a fresh flat surface that my actions will then similarly be recorded into the metal. Such that, should someone flatten the sole after I use it for 30 years, it will tell the tale of my own use through a unique set of wear patterns. Since I am ambidextrous, I imagine it will wear more evenly, and since I plan to use it almost solely for surfacing, that too will lend itself to wearing more evenly.


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## GrantA

I found another super clean transitional today, I wasn't sure exactly what it was but now I'm thinking I might go back and snag it.
It's a Stanley Liberty Bell No127 Jack 
Any thoughts?


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## RWE

I have a Sargent transitional that is the same size. It absolutely glides over the surface and is a real joy to use. I have other transitionals that I probably have not set up as well, but when you get one that works well they are fun. If the iron is good and the mouth is not too open, it will probably surprise you about how much you like it and how it works compared to the metal planes. I have some fully wooden jointers and fore planes and learning to set them with a hammer is not that bad. It is my opinion that a variety of the old tools is worth the effort just to see what they can do.

That Liberty Bell looks very clean.

Wood on wood is good!!!


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## rad457

Have never tried a transitional, but have a special love for my Krenov planes!
Best of all, flatten the sole's is really easy


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## GrantA

Thanks that was all the nudge I needed


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## donwilwol

I use Sargent's, so no need to flatten soles.


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## DevinT

Of all the talk about never being able to find a 24" metal plane that is flat, I wonder how flat a Lie-Nielsen No 8 would be. One theory could be that all Stanley's were flat when they were made but that they were so popular and got used so much that it's nigh-impossible to find one that is flat. Possibly it is the case that every flat 24" plane is flat because it was either never used or it was lapped.


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## corelz125

Plenty of other company's made #8 sized planes. Could also find Bedrock 608s. Sargent has the 424


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## donwilwol

Sargent had a 424 and a 24. Both would typically be flat. Millers falls had a 24. I have not had enough through to comment on their typical flatness. A lot of Stanley's can use some flatten, although I think there is a lot of over achievers .


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## corelz125

Those Millers Falls 24s are hard to get. Don't see too many Record #8s either.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice Union No. 8 here.










Available on the 'bay.

I know, too late.


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## HokieKen

I managed to get my hands on a MF 24 and it had a pretty significant twist in it. By far the worst Millers Falls I've had. On the other hand though, my #22 required very little work.


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## donwilwol

I've got a bedrock 607 that so bad I'm not sure what to do with it other than part it out


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## HokieKen

You could do 17,500 strokes on sandpaper Don ;-)


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## rad457

> You could do 17,500 strokes on sandpaper Don ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Not sure done that much combined on all my planes Even my #7c with the welded check? Mind you that one was made in Canada so maybe better quality?


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## donwilwol

> You could do 17,500 strokes on sandpaper Don ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


I'm pretty sure the base isn't thick enough for this one. If it was there would still be some movin and shakin going on.


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## donwilwol

> You could do 17,500 strokes on sandpaper Don ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


I'm pretty sure the base isn't thick enough for this one. If it was there would still be some movin and shakin going on.


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## corelz125

At some ppint I would go to the belt sander after a couple of thousand passes


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## DevinT

Yesterday I discovered a faster way to get to flat, and also why it was taking me so many passes.

ASIDE: I'm at 20,550 passes now, and I'm moving from 100 grit to 150 grit to sneak up on the last few microns to eliminate the last 2 hollows behind the blade.

The number one hindrance in getting the sole flat is this:

Using only a 4" wide swath of sandpaper (because I am using a granite counter back-splash that is 8 foot x 4 inch) what is happening is that the high spots that exist on the left/right sides of the plane are wearing down the sandpaper and the middle never gets worked on.

If you have wider sandpaper, no problem, just shift the plane so its not riding in the same spot each time and you'll take down those high spots in a fraction of the time it took me.

But, if you can't use a wider track because you're limited to the width of the granite like me, you can do this, which worked wonders to speed up the process:

1. Do 25 strokes pressing hard on one of the high sides only
2. Rotate the plane so it is facing the other way and repeat, keeping pressure on the same side of the granite/sandpaper (meaning you have just switched the side of the plane you are pressing on)
3. Do another 25 strokes
4. Rotate the plane again
5. Pressing on the opposite side now (so in steps 1 and 3 you would be pressing on the right side of the granite/sandpaper, now you will press on the edge of the plane that is over the left side of the granite/sandpaper as you do your passes) do another 25 passes
6. Rotate the plane
7. Do another 25 passes
8. Rotate the plane
9. Vacuum the sandpaper
10. Pressing in the center of the plane now, perform about 30-50 passes
11. If the sandpaper still has life, go back to step 1 and only continue when you feel the metal just gliding over the sandpaper and taking off very little. The sandpaper should be showing signs of carbon (black) build-up within 5 strokes or it is toast.
Optional: At this point don't change the sandpaper yet. Flip the plane on its side and do about 25-50 laps on squaring/spiffing-up the sides (if you want). When the sandpaper can no longer efficiently take carbon off the sole *or* the side, trash it and lay down new.

I did more than 20k passes to figure this out so you don't have to. Maybe this was already common knowledge to some, but I've never lapped anything in my life, and had to figure this out and nobody exactly explains it in such detail that I have found.


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## DevinT

Just waiting for my 4th roll of sandpaper to arrive. This one will be Porter-Cable. Last one was SunGold. Before that was some off brand.


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## theoldfart

So, this is a woodworking forum, right?


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## DevinT

theoldfart, yes, why do you ask?


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## 33706

> I found another super clean transitional today, I wasn t sure exactly what it was but now I m thinking I might go back and snag it.
> It s a Stanley Liberty Bell No127 Jack
> Any thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - GrantA


*Remember with a Liberty Bell Transitional, there is no lateral adjustment for the cutter. I collect Libbies, I just don't use them very often.

*


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## GrantA

Devin, are you certain that the granite is on a dead flat surface (or shimmed to be)? I worry that you'll end up with a #8 compass plane


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## HokieKen

I think Kev may be suggesting that we go to excessive lengths to flatten planes that don't really need to be that flat to do their job ;-) A valid point but one the machinist in me cannot abide


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## DevinT

Grant, yes, it's dead flat. The granite is sitting atop a dead flat sheet of MDF that I had to scrounge for. I noticed that the sides are coming flat MUCH faster leading me to believe that the main issue is that lack of fry-ability in the sandpaper combined with the need to be using a surface at least 1.5x the width of the thing you are trying to flatten. The plane is about 3.5 inches, the granite is 4 inches. This only left me with 0.25 inches on either side of the plane. After about 20-30 passes I am no longer taking down the high sides (as it were) because I was just re-passing over dead tracks in the sand paper. This of course is not the case with squaring/flattening the sides because the plane is not as tall as it is wide and therefore I can avoid riding in the same spots. All-in-all, I have been periodically testing it and it continues to get closer and closer. It is actually looking so good right now that I find myself just staring at the shiny metal getting lost in its beauty. I can't wait to move on to honing, the last step before use.


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## GrantA

OK, not doubting it but just want to point out that unless that dead flat Mdf is a torsion box it still has to be on top of something else that is dead flat or shimmed while checking with a precision straightedge. 
Of course it's a hand plane so there's definitely a point of diminishing return!
The granite and the Mdf will conform to a wavy tabletop or floor though.


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## DevinT

The MDF is sitting atop a WORX Pegasus and I tested the whole thing out with a 24" precision Starrett rule and also used feeler gauges and nothing could get between the granite and MDF. No torsion box, would like to have one someday, but I think my cheapo solution is doing quite well. I initially started (first 2k passes) on the floor with the granite shimmed with cedar shims, but that wasn't performing well. The MDF on top of the Pegasus is doing very well.


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## GrantA

That works! I'm still blown away at how many passes you've made chasing flat. I get it though, need to get my surface grinder cleaned and operational! It can only do 18" though


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## DevinT

Not just flat but shiny and scratch free. There is one deep scratch where I think the previous owner caught a nail or screw that I don't think is going to come out, but it doesn't bother me. Getting all the pitting and scratches out has produced a fantastically beautiful surface and still plenty of material left.


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## DevinT

I also suspect the seller used a hammer and chisel to remove the rust.


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## bandit571

Almost made me go to the shop, and double check my Stanley No. 8, Type 7….almost…..









But,,,we have "back-up" on call…









Stanley No. 7c, and Ohio No. 0-7…....


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## bandit571

Mine seems to work well enough..









Last used on 1×8 x 36" pine planks, to make a glue up panel….


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## RWE

I will report on my Bedrock 608 in the fullness of time. I am in a kitchen remodel and will be getting a granite "sink cut out" in the next few weeks. All of this discussion has made me want to check it again. I normally flatten all my planes when I get them, but I don't recall what the status was on the 608. I will put some sandpaper on the cut out and give it a test.

I have stated multiple times that the 608 is my favorite plane and I expect it to be very close when I check it.

Also, for the record, I picked up a Stanley that I may use for the Christmas swap. After all the discussion about the curvature on the sides of my collection of Stanley planes and using them on shooting boards, the one I picked up was very close to flat on the sole and dead 90 degrees and flat on both sides. A type 16.


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## DevinT

Flat sole and square/flat sides? Good find! I am interested to know what you discover on your 608. When I am done fettling this No 8 I expect it to work as well or better than my Veritas planes, only better because Veritas never made a No 8.


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## adot45

HokieKen - I think my email may have went to your spam folder?

At any rate if there is room for one more I'd like to participate.


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## HokieKen

I just haven't checked that e-mail in a few days but I got it now. You're on the list  That gives us 19 participants thus far!


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## adot45

OK, Thanks….just wanted the official Okey Dokey!


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## Notw

And I'm back. Devin the amount of strokes you are going through on that plane is exactly why I am not sure I will go any higher than my number 6, it took enough time to get flat and shiny


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## DevinT

Notw, oh, believe me, I wouldn't be doing this if there wasn't clear incentive.

I refuse to spend time lapping a hand plane if I can buy it brand new already flat and shiny. As such, my one spokeshave is from Veritas, my one smoother is from Veritas, my one apron plane is from Veritas, my one finger-pull plane was brand new when I bought it, etc. Doesn't have to be a Veritas, but it has to be new and shiny so I can get to using it right away and not fight the tool or be left with disappointing results without realizing it was the tool's fault.

So, when I buy a No 6, I have it narrowed down to Veritas, Clifton, WoodRiver, and Lie-Nielsen.

But here's the problem … should you want a 24" metal bodied plane (because when you're like me, when you enjoy something you go all-in; started with a smoother, liked it, let's jump to the biggest), you have exactly zero options other than auction.

Trust me, if Lie-Nielsen wasn't sold out (of every single plane they sell), I would have bought a Lie-Nielsen No 8.

But hey, I'm not mad. There was literally no other choice. Believe it or not, I picked what I thought was the singular 24-inch plane in best condition. Of course, it's really hard to tell from online pictures that it was basically spiffed up just barely enough to look pretty. I'm not mad at that either. I planned for it.

Before I even had the plane, knowing that I had to go to auction, I made new handles and acquired a NOS blade. I knew no matter how good the thing looked, it was going to need work. The question was how much.

I knew within 5 seconds that I was going to be in for a world of hurt. I put that 24 inch Starrett ruler on the sole and my heart sank. Of course, this is an exaggeration, but I felt like I could drive a MAC truck under the ruler, the gap of light was humongous. I sat there and twisted the ruler until I could eliminate the gap. With the ruler running diagonal along the sole, I identified that the leading 2 inches of the toe and the trailing 7 inches of the heel weren't just high spots, they were Mt. Everest to the rest of the sole.

Of course, steel tells all when you bring it to a flat surface and start abrading it.

This plane had multiple owners, the steel told me. The first owner ran it over more wood in a more consistent manner using early 1900's techniques, compared to the later owners. The first owner used his thumb to hold down the toe. One of the later owners skewed the plane to make it easier to push the blade through the wood.

Like a forensics investigator, Each 1k passes removes a micron or two and as each of those layers is peeled away I can tell how the wear patterns stacked on each other over the years. It is quite fascinating to me.

But hey, ... there is a silver lining in this venture to own a flat and shiny 24-inch bodied plane.

...

When it comes time to lap pretty much *anything* else, the task will seem small and quantifiable. Lapping a 10-inch smoother? Hah, I laugh at the idea because I know it would be extremely trivial by comparison. Kind of like how when you're in woodshop as a yout' and they make you do all the hard things before teaching you the easy ways.

Maybe some day I will buy a massive resurfacing machine. Or maybe I'll just continue to lap everything by hand because I know that (1) it only takes about 7-8 days to do 20k passes which can get even the most fugged-up sole flat at the rate of about 2-3k passes per day, and (2) using a wider piece of granite with wider sand paper would have gotten the job done in about 3k passes, and if I used Cubitron, it would have only taken about 1k passes.

Lessons were learned.

a. There *is* a technique to lapping
b. You *can* just mindlessly power through it if you want, but sandpaper quality is important
c. There are superior sandpapers out there (like Cubitron) that would just blow this task out of the water
d. Nothing is impossible, and I prefer to have *all* shiny tools, versus the situation I was presented with-all shiny tools except, oh, some crappy Stanley No 8 that looks shoddy next to all my Veritas tools


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## DevinT

I'm not some Veritas fan-girl though, ... I just like Norris adjusters. However, I think it was stupid of Veritas to shorten the down-rod on their custom line of hand-planes and as-such refuse to own one.

NOTE: The idea has crossed my mind to replace the short down-rod in the custom line with the longer down-rod from the non-custom line, but they designed the custom hand planes in such a way that the Norris adjuster from the original line would hit the handle were you to put it into a custom line.

So when it comes to Veritas, I only like 6 models they make. Nos. 1, 4, 4.5, 5.25W, 4.5, and 6. That's it. I don't like bevel up planes except for block planes. I'll probably pick up a No 1 from them, but I am seriously considering WoodRiver for my No 6 simply because I can buy an after market part called the "AdjuStar" from Rob Cosman's site (I already have some signs of Arthritis and he markets that depth adjustment star-wheel as being great for arthritic hands).


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## HokieKen

I'm not a Veritas fan-girl either.


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## Notw

Devin, I agree with you, all of the planes I own with the exception of the newer sweetheart planes (No. 62, No. 92 and the 60-1/2) are vintage Stanley planes I have collected and all were rusted almost black when I got them. I could have cleaned the soles a little, sharpened the blades and put them to work but I instead to go a lot further and make them shine and almost everyone has received new walnut totes and handles that I made.


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## Notw

> I m not a Veritas fan-girl either.
> 
> - HokieKen


But you are a Miller Falls fan-girl?


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## HokieKen

Nope. But I might consider a second wife if I found one ;-)


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## DevinT

[un-deleted]



> I m not a Veritas fan-girl either.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> But you are a Miller Falls fan-girl?
> 
> - Notw


Oh, I've never had the pleasure of using one before. What is your opinion? What do you like (or dislike) about them?


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## HokieKen

You just made everyone that reads this thread groan Devin 

I'll make it brief but be happy to elaborate if you have specific questions.

The main reason I abandoned Stanleys in favor of Millers Falls was the knob. The first couple of planes I bought were vintage Stanleys and I had a terrible problem with loosening the knob during planing sessions. So then I bought a Millers Falls smoother at a yard sale and after using it for a while, the knob never loosened. So I took it apart to see why and I was sold. They cast a series of radial ribs inside the raised ring where the knob sits. Then corresponding grooves are cut in the bottom of the knob to lock the position. To this day, my sole remaining Stanley and my Veritas LAJ inevitably develop "sloppy" knob when I use them. But never a Millers Falls. (Except the Buck Rogers, they have the same problem, grrrr, grumble grumble grumble).

Millers Falls also have the patented 3-point lever cap. Probably not a practical advantage but the design theory is solid and I appreciate that. And the debossed name with the red background is just cool looking IMO, especially paired with the red enameled frog. And in a period where it seems like everyone was just copying the Bailey pattern for which the patent was now expired, I just like that it looked a little different in addition to having a theoretical advantage and a patent to back it up.

They also used Cocobolo for the totes and knobs (wartime production and later crappy models excluded) and Cocobolo just happens to be my favorite wood. And the irons were solid tool steel and hardened thru on the full blade. So you can sharpen a MF blade until you actually break into the slot and still have a sharpenable edge.

Then there are the Buck Rogers planes which were a whole nother animal but I think I've "Bucked" everyone enough in the last couple months so I'll digress


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## HokieKen

You suck so bad. Now it looks like I just wanted to talk about Millers Falls. Again.

Ah whatever, I do.


----------



## RWE

Paging Mos to explain the benefits of the Keen Kutter KK series. Paging Don W. to explain the superior quality of the Sargent plane (my pick but I rarely find them).

Hokie has had his turn.


----------



## Notw

> You suck so bad. Now it looks like I just wanted to talk about Millers Falls. Again.
> 
> Ah whatever, I do.
> 
> - HokieKen


It's okay Ken, this is a safe place where you can discuss your feelings towards Miller Falls, we are all here together.


----------



## seeds444

I have been surprisingly lucky in that department, of late. I also work on old bicycles. Everything i've dropped, over the course of the last couple years, has been found within a few minutes. Often right after I've picked up the broom.


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## DevinT

Sorry Ken. Yes, I asked Ken to bestow upon us the virtues of his favorite plane.


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## bandit571

Hmmm..









The Dungeon Woodshop is an EOE shop….


----------



## DevinT

I admit to being intrigued now by Millers Falls.

Interesting thing though, when I took the knob off my type 11 Stanley, it had what you were describing on the base of the knob. I can take a picture of it if you like, but perhaps Stanley did away with that later on or maybe most of the Stanley's you've come into contact with had remade handles (the handles I had remade for my type 11 lacked this feature).

I had actually never seen that before, and was quite impressed with it, as it too seemed to me that it would prevent the knob from developing play/slop.

I might have to pick me up a Millers Falls and try it out.


----------



## rad457

A Few M.F.s , Sum Winchesters, all "user" Stanleys have PMV-11 irons,(except for the new SW #62) sum L.N. and a bunch of Veritas, oh ya 1 cute little Sargent #407(now with PMV-11 iron an on the working shelf) an a Craftsman that should be here today or tomorrow? LOL! then there are the Wood Krenov planes that I can always depend on!
No stand out favorites, funny how some times one plane just seems to work better than another?
Forgot about that KK that I won but was never delivered, does a Record Plough/plow plane count?
Unlike Kenny, no need for the Second wife, just enjoy a little Variety


----------



## HokieKen

I was just teasing you Devin ;-) But yes, I'd be very interested in seeing what lies below the knob on your T11 Stanley. I was totally unaware of them ever using such a feature.


----------



## DevinT

I just can't get past the name "Keen Kutter" sounding juvenile to me-severely impacts my ability to associate it with quality based purely on the name. Stupid, I know, but I just can't shake it. Using a "K" instead of a C? Self-aggrandizing by saying your "Keen?" It's all just too much. I have the same problem (aggrandizing) in the name "Great Neck" (which is decidedly NOT great). I feel like I would have the same problem if there were such a thing as a plane named "Best Product" or if tried to be cutesy with a name like "Penny Plane" (think: Beatles)


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## HokieKen

At least they didn't misspell both words like Krispy Kreme…


----------



## DevinT

Don't get me started on Krispy Kreme Ko.


----------



## RWE

It is one thing to disparage Stanley and Keen Kutter, but do not get after Krispy Kreme. Is nothing sacred?

In terms of the great plane debate, my position is that I like old planes simply for the idea that the tool has had a 100 year life or more. In my area, I mostly find Stanleys, so I buy Stanleys. I have a couple of Sargents, had a Miller Falls smoother, a few Unions (mostly transitionals). To round out my attempted run at a set of Bedrocks, I picked up two or three K series Keen Kutters (rebranded round rocks).

Like Andre, if I am going to get serious on some work, I use Hock or Veritas PMV-11 irons, but I get very good results with the older irons as well.

I totally dislike "modern" and would not buy a modern plane. This is a hobby for me and flattening and sharpening are part of the hobby. It has gotten to the point that refurbing old tools is as much fun as woodworking, so why would I want something that is ready to go out of the box, unless I was more into woodworking and did not want to be bothered.

I think a high percentage of the folks on here enjoy the rust hunt and the refurb aspect of the hobby.

If I ever saw a KK series Keen Kutter, I would snap it up, same with a vintage Millers Falls (once had my hand on a MF #7 equivalent, but the boss was with me). I just don't see them in the Southeast, nothing but Stanleys and a smattering of other brands. The hunt for rust is also one of the most fun things. Ebay is cheating.

Those are the principles that I operate on. No Ebay, have to find it in person. Any old plane that seems worthy is a candidate.


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## bandit571

A wee bit of "Show & Tell"?









Name is right on the side..Millers Falls No. 9 ( type 4)









The fancy lever cap. iron is stamped as Solid Tool Steel, BTW..under the knob?









They do not cut very deep, otherwise they will split the knob…just enough there to hold things still..









Left to right…M-F No. 9, T-4…..Stanley No. 4, type 10…..Sargent VBM No. 408…

Got sole?









This be the sole of a working plane, not a Display Piece….up on the "Bow" 









No. 8…with the LOW knob….Starboard side view?









Stanley No. 8, Type 7….









Mutt & Jeff….Millers Falls No. 9 is the same size as a Stanley No. 4, BTW

Tain't allowed any Krispy Kreemes…...









A little rough around the edges?









Could be…









Under da hood…KK 4



























Hard to stop, when they are working so nicely, ain't it?

Made by Ohio Tool Co.


----------



## DanKrager

I've not experience the loose knob issue with my Stanley planes. If it is really an issue, would it be sacrilege to put three dimples in the casting under the knob and 3 matching dimples in the knob and squeeze three little BBs in there when the knob is put back? The action would mimic the ribs under the MF plaines HK talks about.

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

To be honest Dan, I think I'm the only one who does have that problem… I don't know why but there's evidently something in the mechanics of my stroke that causes me to twist my left hand. I think the muscle memory has reached the point that it isn't likely to get corrected though. But to your point, there are indeed ways to fix the problem. Except with my LAJ, that knob has to be able to loosen. And I have to very concious of what I'm doing to prevent unlocking it and moving the throat plate when I use it.


----------



## Mosquito

I think I'd sooner go with a leather washer under it myself. I did that with a tote that wasn't quite tight when screwed down all the way before, worked great


----------



## rad457

> I just can t get past the name "Keen Kutter" sounding juvenile to me-severely impacts my ability to associate it with quality based purely on the name. Stupid, I know, but I just can t shake it. Using a "K" instead of a C? Self-aggrandizing by saying your "Keen?" It s all just too much. I have the same problem (aggrandizing) in the name "Great Neck" (which is decidedly NOT great). I feel like I would have the same problem if there were such a thing as a plane named "Best Product" or if tried to be cutesy with a name like "Penny Plane" (think: Beatles)
> 
> - DevinT


So Sargents VBM "Very Best Metal" branding sound better I'm still mad about not adding a KK to the herd, Do have a Bedrock #604, cost a whole $30.00! CAN.
Did find a Hokke, made in in Germany hiding, think it was my Dads ?


----------



## Mosquito

If I end up with another extra KK, I'll let you know Andre ;-) I already sold my extra KK8, after I got the one Sansoo restored a few months ago


----------



## bandit571

V.B.M. Stands for, according to Sargent….Very Best Made. I have that No. 408 and a 414c in VBM markings. And…have yet to ever add an aftermarket iron to any of my planes….nor have I ever felt the need to.


----------



## rad457

Metal, Made, hey Close enough I get the PMV-11 irons because of being lazy, less sharpening


----------



## rad457

> If I end up with another extra KK, I ll let you know Andre ;-) I already sold my extra KK8, after I got the one Sansoo restored a few months ago
> 
> - Mosquito


There is a K.K. 2 on Fee-bay right now, only $750.00 CAN. too bad I already have that #407! An this is why my Plane tills never get completed. Thanks but no need for ANY #8


----------



## DevinT

> I just can t get past the name "Keen Kutter" sounding juvenile to me-severely impacts my ability to associate it with quality based purely on the name. Stupid, I know, but I just can t shake it. Using a "K" instead of a C? Self-aggrandizing by saying your "Keen?" It s all just too much. I have the same problem (aggrandizing) in the name "Great Neck" (which is decidedly NOT great). I feel like I would have the same problem if there were such a thing as a plane named "Best Product" or if tried to be cutesy with a name like "Penny Plane" (think: Beatles)
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> So Sargents VBM "Very Best Metal" branding sound better I m still mad about not adding a KK to the herd, Do have a Bedrock #604, cost a whole $30.00! CAN.
> Did find a Hokke, made in in Germany hiding, think it was my Dads ?
> 
> - Andre


You've now ruined Sargents for me. I thought VBM was Vaughn & Bushnell Manufacturing.


----------



## corelz125

The Ohio tool planes are solid users. Bandit keeps that 07 in the rotation. The early Unions are good also. Should of did some more research Devin. There are other options out there besides Stanleys. V&B is an entire different company. The 900 series V&B are nice planes also.


----------



## corelz125

V&B 903 and 905


----------



## DevinT

Why does nobody talk about Paragon's? It f I was to buy another smoother it would be a G&W Paragon.


----------



## Mosquito

> There is a K.K. 2 on Fee-bay right now, only $750.00 CAN. too bad I already have that #407! An this is why my Plane tills never get completed. Thanks but no need for ANY #8
> 
> - Andre


Good thing I don't collect K series Keen Kutters. There was no KK2


----------



## donwilwol

I was going to write a book once by testing all kinds of smoothers. The guy who was supposed to do the testing started, got through several common brands and bailed on me so I never got to write the book. But he managed to test Most of the major vintage brands using a new LN as the base point. The only plane that came close to the LN, and it was darn close, for flatness, rigidity, and fit and finish was the Sargent type 4(vbm) and type 5. I already knew this but it was nice to have the validation.


----------



## Mosquito

Oh, did I say collect? I meant use 

(No, really, the KK's are my users)


----------



## DevinT

Don W, so I was probably right to go after a LN No 8 as my first pick. From the sounds of it, a Sargent type 4/5 would have been a good second choice for a No 8 sized plane. But, seeming how Lie-Nielsen is sold out and this is the only Sargent 424 I could find for sale, I'm not mad that I went with Stanley for my 24" "jointer" plane


----------



## HokieKen

So it sounds like we have unanimous consent - Millers Falls rules and all others drool.

;-)


----------



## corelz125

Nothing wrong with that 424. Nice low beaded knob. Needs a little cleaning but since its from Jim Bode it must be at a premium price.


----------



## rad457

My Bad, K-2

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/KEEN-KUTTER-K-2-PLANE-THIS-IS-THE-HARD-TO-FIND-2-SIZE-PLANE/233872591530


----------



## Lazyman

I cannot add anything to the discussion really but that MF 14C I found a few months ago is by far the best plane in my till (if I ever get around to building one). It is so easy to setup and is really a joy to use. Of course none of the others are particularly collectable.


----------



## 33706

Ooops, my #10 is a Paramo, not Paragon. It has replaceable cutter edges. My bad.


----------



## donwilwol

There is a decent looking 424 for $165 on ebay right now. They are not rare or uncommon. It's just everyone wants a Stanley. Their marketing still prevails even over their quality


----------



## rad457

Dang she showed up but think it may be a little over priced?
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/133725458329


----------



## corelz125

Priced high but not many of them out there. Looks like it just came out of the box Andre


----------



## Mosquito

Wait for someone to buy it, and the answer will be "not priced too high"


----------



## DevinT

I saw a Stanley No 8 in horrible condition going for $775. Seller must have been the owner forced by the boss to sell and set a price to detract from purchase, is my theory. Could be something similar going on here.


----------



## DevinT

If I was going to think about spending that kind of money on a Sargent, I would probably save myself $200+ by getting this Sargent 409 instead … so beautiful.










On Etsy


----------



## DevinT

Andre, did you get your Craftsman? I have to admit, I've always liked that metallic green paint they use. That electric yellow they use as accent on the lever cap is also quite fetching. I haven't purchased one though because I had concerns about their quality. Interested to know how yours turns out.


----------



## corelz125

Sargent, Miller's Falls and Stanley made planes for Craftsman so most are good users


----------



## bandit571

Up to a point….about the time Stanley was selling Handyman planes….hmmmm…


----------



## DevinT

Got a chance to try the Porter-Cable sandpaper today for lapping. I will go be going back to SunGold which lasted twice as long and the PSA backing doesn't leave a residue on the granite. Not to mention that it takes me less than 10 minutes to remove the SunGold from the granite whereas I am now 30 minutes into trying to remove the Porter-Cable sandpaper and I am not even a 1/4 way done. The adhesive is way too strong for the paper which keeps tearing and it is so strong that I have to use almost all my strength to lift even a small amount.

In fact, if anyone has any tips on how to get strong PSA sandpaper off easier, I am all ears/eyes. I've just about hit a wall with this sandpaper. Currently I am using a putty knife to painstakingly lift it off. I tried using a heat gun on the low setting to try and make it easier, but that didn't work. Maybe rubbing alcohol? Acetone? Fire?


----------



## DevinT

At the beginning of this video you can see the SunGold is hard to remove, but it's do-able.

At the end of the video you can see how hard it is to [try and] remove the Porter-Cable sandpaper. Where the video ends is where I am at now. The next thing I'm going to try is turning the heat gun on high and see if that makes a difference.


----------



## DevinT

UPDATE: With the heat gun on high (~300 degrees) the Porter-Cable sandpaper is coming up-easier than the SunGold actually (which leads me to believe that with heat the SunGold would actually come off even easier than this sandpaper is doing now).

Thank goodness I had a heat gun. Some people online suggested a hair dryer … no way that would work. I sat there with the heat gun on low (which is hotter than a hair dryer) and it did nothing.


----------



## DevinT

AND, things went from bad to worse. There is now a residue on the granite which I cannot get off. Acetone only worked if I flooded it onto the surface. 91% Isopropyl does absolutely nothing to it. Mineral spirits with vigorous rubbing seems like I might get this granite clean in about an hour or 5.

I think at this point, my only options are to flood the surface of the granite with Acetone or chuck it and buy a new granite backsplash. Sigh.

Porter-Cable did not make a fan today.

I have a new roll of SunGold arriving tomorrow to fix this absolute travesty of a situation. I have to make sure the granite is clean by then.


----------



## HokieKen

Got any xylene Devin? Kerosene is a possibility too.


----------



## GrantA

Devin I have to ask- is your acetone the same as ours? I know I've seen labels for some California compliant solvents that are low VOC or whatever else they want to call it. Citrus based cleaners or goof off usually take off residue though. A razor may help.


----------



## BlasterStumps

WD-40 is a possibility for getting the residue off DevinT. Sometimes have to put it on and let sit for a few.


----------



## corelz125

Goof off takes that off. I also use it for the work sharp discs. Rub it in and scrape it off with a scraper.


----------



## donwilwol

> Goof off takes that off. I also use it for the work sharp discs. Rub it in and scrape it off with a scraper.
> 
> - corelz125


I was going to say scraper too


----------



## donwilwol

> Goof off takes that off. I also use it for the work sharp discs. Rub it in and scrape it off with a scraper.
> 
> - corelz125


I was going to say scraper too


----------



## DevinT

Thanks, I'll give a scraper a go. I also have WD40. I'd have to go out and buy Goof Off.

There's a very simple test I can run on the Acetone to see if it is the real stuff. Let me go throw a little of the liquid into styrofoam cup and see if it dissolves. I have no reason to believe it's not the real stuff… I used it to remove the shellac from several items already (and it worked wonders).


----------



## HokieKen

I guess I assumed a scraper was a given. But if not, then yeah - that


----------



## donwilwol

Gas, a match AND a scraper?


----------



## donwilwol

Gas, a match AND a scraper?


----------



## DevinT

It laughed at the scraper. It has the consistency of rubber cement. I am letting some WD40 soak. We'll see how that does.


----------



## HokieKen

If acetone works, wd-40 probably won't. Water vs oil and all that.

You must be scraping like a girl.

Sorry. I've had two beers and it couldn't be helped ;-) Anyone whose done 20k lap strokes with a #8 has far more upper body power than me any way!


----------



## HokieKen

Just for the record in case anyone is on the fence, I think Friday is the day I'll pass out secret santa names. I know at least one person is still mulling it over so I wanted to fire a warning shot…


----------



## donwilwol

I was going to say you must be using a girly scraper, but I haven't had any beer so I didn't . Well, i did now but that's because Kenny's been drinking.


----------



## donwilwol

Where is sweetheart VA anyhow?


----------



## donwilwol

Where is sweetheart VA anyhow?


----------



## HokieKen

It's wherever I go Don.


----------



## corelz125

Speaking of where is. Where's Smitty?


----------



## corelz125

Don who is this guy Mark Webster that's restoring planes?


----------



## HokieKen

Good question corelz. Haven't seen Smitty in a bit.

For those waiting for 46 cutters… I'm sorry, life has been a real PITA the last week or so. I'm doing the final side of the finish grinding now.









Haven't figured out a good way to do the beveled edge on a powered grinder so it gets done on a diamond. I'll do my best to get everyone's in the mail by end of the week.


----------



## donwilwol

> Don who is this guy Mark Webster that s restoring planes?
> 
> - corelz125


I don't know him personally other through Facebook and a bunch of hand plane restoration conversions we've had. I just know he's retired and likes restoring Stanley's. He does a lot on Instagram.


----------



## donwilwol

I'm not even on my phone and its Double posting me!


----------



## donwilwol

> Speaking of where is. Where s Smitty?
> 
> - corelz125


He posted 2days ago


----------



## HokieKen

I follow Mark Webster on IG too. The guy does fantastic work. Probably the most thorough restorations I've seen.


----------



## donwilwol

> I follow Mark Webster on IG too. The guy does fantastic work. Probably the most thorough restorations I've seen.
> 
> - HokieKen


Besides Don's being assumed of course. ;-)


----------



## donwilwol

This double post thing is annoying me.


----------



## DevinT

Thank you all SO much. So here's the winning recipe that rescued my granite from Porter-Cable PSA sandpaper:

1. WD40
2. Wait 30 min
3. Razor blade
4. Wipe down with WD40
5. Wipe down with mineral spirits
6. Wipe down with 91% isopropyl

And she's shiny and still flat.


----------



## donwilwol

See, scraper was right


----------



## DevinT

I need to get me one of those blade holders. I just pulled the blade out of my box knife, lol.


----------



## corelz125

Instagram is where saw his work


----------



## DavePolaschek

Well, I signed up for the Secret Santa. So that's a thing.


----------



## Lazyman

I've never found an adhesive that Goo Gone and razor blade glass scraper can't remove. I've always assumed that Goof Off was more for paint.


----------



## BlasterStumps

you're not by chance hitting the back arrow key after you post? If I do that I get another copy of my post. 


> This double post thing is annoying me.
> 
> - Don W


----------



## DevinT

If you do hit the back button you have about 5s to load some other page to cancel the duplicate post, in my experience.


----------



## rad457

Dang, been busy working on Grangirls birthday stuff an Mother in Laws service this weekend, log on and 36 post behind!
The Self adhesive paper I get from Auto body supply peels off very easy, stuff from L.V. not!
Think all ya need is a Stanley #82?
My Craftsman hasn't shown up but apparently did clear customs 6 days ago?
Wasted 6 hours trying to book camping sites this summer only to get 7 days at 2 different campgrounds


----------



## donwilwol

> you re not by chance hitting the back arrow key after you post? If I do that I get another copy of my post.
> 
> This double post thing is annoying me.
> 
> - Don W
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Nope. Once I hit submit it just churns until I move to a different page. When I come back there are two post. I wonder if I didn't get bored and move on, if it would just keep posting


----------



## DLK

> I need to get me one of those blade holders. I just pulled the blade out of my box knife, lol.
> 
> - DevinT


If you do use one of these scrapers Don W shows in post 7092, be sure to round off the corners of the blade, for otherwise you will scratch the the surface you are scraping. You will definitely scratch a saw plate if you don't do this, I am not sure about granite.


----------



## DLK

> I ve never found an adhesive that Goo Gone and razor blade glass scraper can t remove. I ve always assumed that Goof Off was more for paint.
> 
> - Lazyman


Goof off contains: ETHYLBENZENE,BUTOXYDIGLYCOL,PETROLEUM GASES, KEROSENE,ACETONE,XYLENE,PROPANE, ISOBUTANE, and BUTANE.

I think it can remove just about anything, but contain ingredients with potential for damage to DNA; for cancer and for respiratory effects.

Goo Gone, is a mixture of citrus extracts and petroleum-based chemicals. But there are home brew recipes.


----------



## corelz125

You're right Nathan it's goo gone not goof off. Goo goof blurred together


----------



## DLK

Oh and apparently, WD 40 is mostly mineral oil.


----------



## HokieKen

Goo Gone and a scraper are my go-to as well. That's how I remove the spray adhesive from my granite plate when I glue sandpaper to it.


----------



## bandit571

> Oh and apparently, WD 40 is mostly mineral oil.
> 
> - Combo Prof


nope, just Kerosene


----------



## Mosquito

> Speaking of where is. Where s Smitty?
> 
> - corelz125


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Picture for today…








No drooling, Kenny…


----------



## HokieKen

It certainly is drool-worthy Bandit, but I have one of those. This lot with a 209 plane and a Parson's brace is enough to make me drool though. Not enough to make me pay that much though…


----------



## Notw

Do any of you do any polishing on your planes? I have always taken mine up to 800 grit and typically leave them there but have been thinking about a bench grinder with a polishing wheel to get the rest of the 800 grit scratches out. Does anyone do this and if so what is your setup like?


----------



## HokieKen

I don't typically polish anything except nickel-plated stuff like lever caps or screws that are visible. The sole I don't because I don't really want it that slick. It needs some "valleys" to retain oil for rust prevention. If I have a sole that's just really pristine, I may take it up through 1200 or 2000 wet/dry paper but that's as slick as I've ever gone. If it's just scratches that are bothering you, try a fine Scotchbrite pad and some WD-40 to rub it out.


----------



## Mosquito

Red Scotchbrite and oil is about the furthest I ever go


----------



## Notw

So perhaps I am taking the "prettiness" too far…. or perhaps I want an excuse to buy another bench grinder


----------



## Mosquito

buy a buffer if you're buying a new one for buffing, then you don't have to worry about making an excuse for buying another grinder 

Prettiness level is up to you. I like the look of clean but unpolished cast iron on my planes, but I won't tell anyone not to polish theirs


----------



## Notw

> buy a buffer if you re buying a new one for buffing, then you don t have to worry about making an excuse for buying another grinder
> 
> Prettiness level is up to you. I like the look of clean but unpolished cast iron on my planes, but I won t tell anyone not to polish theirs
> 
> - Mosquito


I wouldn't have listened if you did LOL


----------



## DevinT

> I was just teasing you Devin ;-) But yes, I d be very interested in seeing what lies below the knob on your T11 Stanley. I was totally unaware of them ever using such a feature.
> 
> - HokieKen


Here is he original knob that came with my T11 Stanley No 8.


----------



## HokieKen

Ahhh. Those marks probably came from the drive center used to turn it. Are there corresponding marks cast into the base or just on the knob?


----------



## HokieKen

Notw, I like shiny things as much as the next guy. Problem with making vintage tools shiny is maintaining the shine. I'm too lazy for that ;-)


----------



## DevinT

Regarding shine, I put paste wax on the steel after it has been shined-up. Keeps my salty hands from causing flash rust. Before it goes on the shelf, it gets some paste wax. If I see any rust, red scotchbrite, and then paste wax. I am very careful with the scotchbrite pad though. Even pressure, toe-to-heel passes, full-width. I like the look it creates and the paste wax protects it for a long time.


----------



## DevinT

Ken,

Here's the base …


















Zoomed-in:


----------



## Ocelot

> I think I d sooner go with a leather washer under it myself. I did that with a tote that wasn t quite tight when screwed down all the way before, worked great
> 
> - Mosquito


Thanks ofr the suggestion.


----------



## donwilwol

> Do any of you do any polishing on your planes? I have always taken mine up to 800 grit and typically leave them there but have been thinking about a bench grinder with a polishing wheel to get the rest of the 800 grit scratches out. Does anyone do this and if so what is your setup like?
> 
> - Notw


Deburring wheel then buffing wheel. I just use electric motors.


----------



## Mosquito

> buy a buffer if you re buying a new one for buffing, then you don t have to worry about making an excuse for buying another grinder
> 
> Prettiness level is up to you. I like the look of clean but unpolished cast iron on my planes, but I won t tell anyone not to polish theirs
> 
> - Mosquito
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn t have listened if you did LOL
> 
> - Notw
Click to expand...

lol that's why I don't try, I've got a wife if I feel the need to talk to someone who won't listen :-D


----------



## HokieKen

That's what I thought Devin. If you look at Bandits pics in post 7030, you'll see the raised area around the knob and the radial ribs that "lock" the knob against rotation. Like I said before though, that really only seems to be a big deal to me…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop




----------



## Mosquito

Hey the SW signal worked again… Hey Smitty, hope things are going as well as they can be


----------



## HokieKen

Smitty is taunting Andre with that vintage LAJ  Good to see ya!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Things okay.

My Pop, like all of us, is dying. But his is with Pancreatic cancer. Spending time with him (he's home, chemo stopped for now) and enjoying life in the spring! Major (down to stud walls and opened ceiling) kitchen reno coming soon as well. Keeping up with the banter here and in our other mutual haunts, all good stuff. Except Kenny's affinity for MFs is so strong that it's making me wonder about an intervention… ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

So sorry to hear it Smitty. Let us know if you need anything. I can post periodic Millers Falls photos to keep your spirits up ;-)


----------



## controlfreak

Picked up two pieces of granite to stick some paper to. @DevinT what paper did you think held up the best?


----------



## DevinT

controlfreak, I have been liking the rolls of SunGold PSA from Amazon. The 100 grit works well for heavy removal while the 120 gets a nice finish. If you want to polish after flattening, I just keep using the sandpaper, no need to buy a higher grit, just keep using it. After about 125 passes it will no longer do heavy work and will be in "polishing mode" and after about 2k passes, chuck it.

Stay away from Porter-Cable rolls. They put super glue on that paper, practically.

If you have a hard time removing it, a putty knife in the spots where it sticks helps a lot. It won't leave a film though, which is nice.

I am using only stearated SunGold rolls.


----------



## rad457

That # 514, gone an I actually thought about making an offer! Not really what a guy needs with your Pop Smitty,
looking back guess my Dad was lucky, Ma still mad that he just went fishing and passed doing what he loved.
Mother in law passed in her sleep 3 weeks ago, service this Sat.


----------



## DevinT

Here is the stearated SunGold Abrasives 27207 4-1/2"... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005YUJO3U?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share I got the best results with for flattening

Choose your grit. They have 80 to 2000


----------



## controlfreak

I have the paper in my cart but going from 100 grit to 120 grit doesn't sound like much of a increase in grit to me. Don't want to buy more than I need so I am trying to resolve before pressing the buy button. Thanks!


----------



## Mosquito

> Things okay.
> 
> My Pop, like all of us, is dying. But his is with Pancreatic cancer. Spending time with him (he's home, chemo stopped for now) and enjoying life in the spring! Major (down to stud walls and opened ceiling) kitchen reno coming soon as well. Keeping up with the banter here and in our other mutual haunts, all good stuff. Except Kenny's affinity for MFs is so strong that it's making me wonder about an intervention… ;-)
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Sorry to hear that Smitty. I hope his journey's end is comfortable and full of love and good fun.


----------



## HokieKen

> I have the paper in my cart but going from 100 grit to 120 grit doesn t sound like much of a increase in grit to me. Don t want to buy more than I need so I am trying to resolve before pressing the buy button. Thanks!
> 
> - controlfreak


A good rule of thumb is to approximately double the number for each step with sandpaper. So go from 100-220-400-800 etc..


----------



## DevinT

It doesn't seem like a big difference but when you are working something as big as a Stanley No 8, there is a small but noticeable difference. I would say go for 120 unless you put a straight-edge against the sole and see it is banana shaped. If it is shaped like a banana, you will need 100 or even 80


----------



## Notw

I thought with grits of sandpaper the rule was a 50% increase in grits. in other words if you start with 100 grit then your next paper would be 100 + 50% of 100 (50 for you non math people) so then you would progress from 100 to 150 grit. Then after 150 it would be 150+75= 225 or 220 since i've never seen 225 grit. or is that just with wood and you can make higher jumps with metal?


----------



## DevinT

And I was under the impression it's not % based at all, but grade based. Never jump more than 2 grit sizes.

Grits come in sizes, like 80, 100, 120, 150, 180, 220, 240, 320, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000, and 5000. I have all of those but not in every form (roll vs sheet vs belt).

If you are sanding at 150, you can jump to 220 (or 240 because it is so close to the 2-grade rule).
If you are at 80, you can jump to 120 (or 150 because it, again, is so close).
If you are at 400, you can jump to 800.

The rule that I was taught was though that you should not jump from, say, 150 to 320. Nor should you attempt to jump from 400 to 1000.

I have actually found that this rule applies mostly to wood and metal. When I am sanding plexiglass, cast, or extruded acrylic, I often jump from 80 to 600 to 3000. However, acrylic is special in my mind.

Also, if you are doing wet sanding, then the rules change too, because the issues of binding mostly go away.


----------



## Mosquito

I go by what I have.

Usually 120 → 220 → 320 → 400 → 600 → 800 → 1000 → 1500 → 2000

Depending on what I'm doing and how far I'm going, of course. If I need to, I also add 2500 and 3000 in there too


----------



## DLK

Correcting a bevel and then sharpening HSS : 60,120,240,600,1200,3000.


----------



## DevinT

Binding: With wet sanding, there is a medium to suspend the particles and if you have adequately flooded the surface then it will keep the particles from binding to the paper, reducing the effectiveness of the sandpaper.

Sanding dry, binding occurs easily in wood if you sand at the wrong grit (the "right" grit is the grit that is a bit finer than the current surface but not too much finer). Sandpaper is a reference material in the sense that whatever you bring to it will become as fine as the density of grit. A brown paper page is about 3k grit equivalency, so if you wanted to refine the surface of a paper bag, you could take it to your 5k grit 2×72 belt and work it.

Sometimes I work in reverse with sandpaper because I don't know what the quality of the surface is before I start to work it. If I bring 1k grit and the surface gets better but the paper binds quickly, I know I started too high and will drop down a grade. I don't have to waste time at a higher grit when a simple binding test will tell me the state of things.

Another time I will work the grits in reverse is when working plexiglass. This is a more complex process wherein I mark on a perpendicular edge lined with masking tape the location of the worst areas and as I sand I watch where how they evolve towards a crystal clear finish. To maintain square, I use a sanding block or angle stock with lengthy turning strips, until I get to about 600 grit or higher wherein I can polish by hand because the sandpaper no longer has the ability to bring it out of square.

Going with the "it's a cutting tool and reference tool at the same time" angle of sandpaper, I will use it to take polished and clean material to a rough state for joinery. For example, roughing up surface of crystal clear plexiglass so I can join it with a welding solvent.


----------



## DevinT

For plane blades, I use a 2-sides Trend diamond stone that is 300 grit on one side and 1k on the other. I then take that to my Shapton 16k grit ceramic stone that has a glass backing and is held by the Shapton heavy-holder all while sitting atop a Tormek mat on a lapping station.


----------



## controlfreak

I took a wild stab at it and opted for 120 and 220 because that is how my normal progression goes. I will check my work and adjust based on what I see happen. There may be more than one right answer for this and by that logic more than one wrong one too.


----------



## DevinT

I take knives to 5k usually (Red Label belts). Planes to 16k (though I dream of someday trying the Shapton 30k). Acrylic I take to 3k and then use Meguiar's cut and polish compound on a micro-fiber cloth to give me a glass-like edge.


----------



## HokieKen

I think what we're saying is do whatever works ;-) It's a trade-off, you can jump straight from 60-600 if you want and if you sand long enough, you'll wind up with a 600 surface. But it'll take a lot of sanding. On the other hand, you can go from 60-80-100-150-220-320-400-600 and you won't have to sand long at all at each step to remove the scratches from the previous stage. You just have a lot more steps to go through. So pick your poison 

I follow basically the same sequence as Mos' except I skip 400 and 800.


----------



## DevinT

controlfreak, just remember that the 120 and 220 grits are not worthless when they stop performing like-new. They will just perform more like higher grits after a hundred+ passes. You'll notice the metal will have visible scratches from the 120 when you start and if you keep going in a mechanical motion afterward you will notice that despite not making any progress on any hollows, those earlier scratches will come out and the areas you did successfully level will come to a high polish the longer you go.

This way you can choose to target time or money. The boss was not happy that I've spent $80-$100 on sandpaper in the past 2 weeks, so I've had to "run out" each 5-foot section before I go back to the roll for more. No bother, because I always continue to see forward progress, and perhaps more-so running out each section instead of mechanically throwing on more when it starts to perform "poorly" (really when it starts polishing instead of cutting).

But if you are willing to trade money for time, replace the paper when it stops cutting. I just can't afford that as I've already spent too much on this plane to begin with.

ASIDE: Again, Stanley No 8 here, don't get scared by the $40-$50/week that I'm spending on sand-paper. I got a plane with a bum sole and I have to rescue it, all 24-inches of steel. The time to flatten a sole is not a multiplier of the plane length, I would argue it's almost exponential. I'm on day 16 and not flat yet, whereas if this were a 9" smoother, I'd have been done on day 2 (or 3 at the max).


----------



## Mosquito

> I follow basically the same sequence as Mos except I skip 400 and 800.
> 
> - HokieKen


I often do too lol The lathe is pretty much the only place I go above 320, and I usually stop at 600 (because that's my abranet limit). Only if I'm doing something with acrylic or epoxy do I go above 600 (I might use 800 on a saw plate)


----------



## DevinT

controlfreak, you'll want to see this …

Holy jeebus, my dumb idea worked!


----------



## corelz125

Kevin it just became Sandpaper of our nightmares thread


----------



## Notw

Corelz should we go into sandpaper brands or alumina zirconia, aluminum oxide, ceramic aluminum oxide, garnet, silicon carbide, stearated aluminum oxide?


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm….wonder what kind of plane will work on this…


----------



## rad457

Cabinet Scrapper, Bandit?
LOL! Plane blade prep, lets say a original SW, back flattened with 180 or 220 maybe square edge if required, then to to 1000 W.S. straight to 8000 W.S. for mirror finish. Cutting edge gets a 25 bevel on hand powered grinder with 6" White stone, 1000 W.S. then 8000 W.S.. When required 10 12 passes on the 8000 W.S. will restore edge until leading edge starts getting to wide, 1/8", then just a quick trip back to hand grinder to restore thin leading edge again? With the PMV-11 blades re-sharping is about 2 - 3 longer intervals System worked for James, but he never had the chance to use PMV-11 just them silly Hocks


----------



## rad457

Yahoo, Craftsman arrived! Right cheek to base square, left cheek maybe 3-4 thou. Knob and tote loose so will give it a quick clean then reassemble before final tune an test. Green finish looks mint


----------



## DevinT

Andre, I'm so jealous of that green finish. How's the yellow paint on the lever cap?


----------



## DevinT

controlfreak, some more tips:

As you get closer to a polished state it becomes more important to wear gloves that prevent hot-sweaty hands from generating moisture against the freshly cut iron which has no protection on it. Leather gloves I have found work best, otherwise I may be generating flash rust on a side I just polished while working the other side, for example.

Vacuum the sandpaper often. Put some blue painter's tape on the tip of your vacuum nozzle so it doesn't get shorter (replace tape as needed) as you vacuum the sandpaper.


----------



## controlfreak

> controlfreak, you'll want to see this …
> 
> Holy jeebus, my dumb idea worked!
> 
> - DevinT


I just now looked at this, Why not just place the PSA directly on the granite? I use it on float glass without trouble.


----------



## corelz125

Notw many many options


----------



## DevinT

controlfreak, this video will explain why not directly on the granite …

NOTE: Start of video, removing Sungold; end of move, *attempting* to remove Porter Cable. Of course, now I'm thinking I could use the porter cable even if it bonds like cement to the painter's tape, because I can easily remove said painter's tape. The Sungold still adheres to the blue tape well enough that a vacuum can't pull it off, but it comes off like butter with little effort.

Jump to 32 minutes into the video to see where I start to remove the Porter Cable.

In this video, I finally got the Porter Cable off using a heat gun.

Of course, the heat gun caused the adhesive to separate and melt to the granite.

The lovely folks in this forum helped me fix that (WD40, razor blade/scraper, mineral spirits).

In other words, it's a nightmare to take the sandpaper off the granite without a barrier like the blue tape.


----------



## corelz125

Siegley #10 









.


----------



## drsurfrat

that is great, they have so much more classy mechanisms than the standards, the O R Chaplin's do too.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> just remember that the 120 and 220 grits are not worthless when they stop performing like-new.


This! I have nothing but 80 grit for my belt sander, but I have new belts that are 80 grit, and worn ones that work almost like 400 grit because they're damn near smooth, and I'm too cheap to throw them out until they tear.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Picture…









Needed a touch more?









getting better?









Making beads….and, if I space things out correctly…with the second bead..









A third one shows up…


----------



## DLK

> just remember that the 120 and 220 grits are not worthless when they stop performing like-new.
> 
> This! I have nothing but 80 grit for my belt sander, but I have new belts that are 80 grit, and worn ones that work almost like 400 grit because they're damn near smooth, and I'm too cheap to throw them out until they tear.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Don't forget you can unclog sandpaper by using a rubber Cleaning Eraser Stick:









Theses sticks not only work on belt sanders they also can be used to unclog static sandpaper and even files.

I bet you can make your lapping sand paper cut a very long time if you periodically clean i with one of these natural rubber eraser sticks. Of course over time the grit will wear and becomes finer.


----------



## adot45

Works great on the finer grits of the Work Sharp too.


----------



## DevinT

I do not recommend using an eraser stick on sandpaper with iron filings. Use a vacuum cleaner. I will take a picture of my eraser stick later to visually explain why you want to avoid that (unless you want to buy a new eraser stick)


----------



## HokieKen

I use eraser sticks on my Worksharp abrasives and on my 2×72 belt grinder for grinding metal. They do get really dirty and swarf embedded in the surface. I use a clean 36 grit belt on my grinder to "resurface" the erasers.


----------



## donwilwol

> I use eraser sticks on my Worksharp abrasives and on my 2×72 belt grinder for grinding metal. They do get really dirty and swarf embedded in the surface. I use a clean 36 grit belt on my grinder to "resurface" the erasers.
> 
> - HokieKen


Ditto


----------



## donwilwol

I suppose you could have a stick for metal belts and a stIck for wood, but I have a hard enough time keeping my belts separated


----------



## donwilwol

I suppose you could have a stick for metal belts and a stIck for wood, but I have a hard enough time keeping my belts separated


----------



## DLK

I have do have two sticks (actual I think 3) but I also do what Kenny said. (Great minds think alike. LOL)


----------



## DLK

> I suppose you could have a stick for metal belts and a stIck for wood, but I have a hard enough time keeping my belts separated
> 
> - Don W


I hope (for fire reasons) you keep your metal working tools separate from your woodworking tools, and hence the two eraser sticks would be in separate locations too and won't get mixed up.


----------



## corelz125

Worksharp gives you one of them or they used to. I use it all the time with the worksharp


----------



## Notw

I use the small one that came with the Worksharp and use another larger one on the oscillating spindle sander


----------



## DevinT

Here is my stick after I used it to clean up metal swarf. It was looking pretty dapper before then, only had used it to clean wood and plastic swarf. So, you're saying this is still good and/or some low grit on the bench sander will clean that right up?


----------



## HokieKen

Yep. Just grind or cut the surface off and it'll look like new.


----------



## HokieKen

Everybody who signed up for the Secret Santa exchange should have either an e-mail or a PM from me with your recipient's information. Let me know if you don't!


----------



## bandit571

Message received….


----------



## Mosquito

ditto


----------



## donwilwol

> I suppose you could have a stick for metal belts and a stIck for wood, but I have a hard enough time keeping my belts separated
> 
> - Don W
> 
> I hope (for fire reasons) you keep your metal working tools separate from your woodworking tools, and hence the two eraser sticks would be in separate locations too and won t get mixed up.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I wish! It was hard enough getting the first 2×72 grinder and mill and bench and belt sanders and vises. I can't image having 2 of each.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, mine are one the same too Don.


----------



## theoldfart

Got it Ken.

Devin, nice red BC. I miss mine.


----------



## HokieKen

What is a red BC Kev?


----------



## Johnny7

> What is a red BC Kev?
> 
> - HokieKen


pssssst! (it's a red border collie)


----------



## DevinT

theoldfart, they are amazing.


----------



## theoldfart

I've had three over the years. Incredible friends.


----------



## DevinT

Kevin, why not a 4th?


----------



## theoldfart

I found it very hard to part company with them when the time came. Don't want to do it again.


----------



## bandit571

When I need to joint two boards together, that are 49-1/2" long..who ya gonna call?









Why Mr. Heft & Hubris himself..









And get the old Type 7 to make a few shavings..









Stanley No. 8, Type 7…









However, it is NOT much of a smoother sort of plane…









I'll leave that to that puny little M-F No.9 to do….


----------



## DevinT

Kevin, totally understand.

bandit571, I like your style.

My own type 11 No 8, and a puny LV No 4.


----------



## DLK

> I suppose you could have a stick for metal belts and a stIck for wood, but I have a hard enough time keeping my belts separated
> 
> - Don W
> 
> I hope (for fire reasons) you keep your metal working tools separate from your woodworking tools, and hence the two eraser sticks would be in separate locations too and won t get mixed up.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> I wish! It was hard enough getting the first 2×72 grinder and mill and bench and belt sanders and vises. I can t image having 2 of each.
> 
> - Don W


You very likely don't use the grinder and mill on wood and only rarely use a bench vice on wood. Normal Benchtop belt sanders are cheap so having two of those are easy to get. I actually have three (One is in storage). In addition I have a Sorby and a worksharp which I can't consider cheap. I only violate my rull of keeping woodwork and metal work separate with the Sorby which I have next to the lath. When I can make a better shop arrangement. I will move it. I just need a different place for the small bandsaw. maybe I can rid of all this wood. LOL.


----------



## donwilwol

I assume your first "you" was meant as "I". I use my 2×72 grinder about 50/50 wood/metal. An awful lot of knife makers us one for both. I use mine for Bow making extensively.

As for the mill, since I typically do more wood working than metal, my mill gets used for wood more than metal.

Files I use for both, rasp only wood

An awful lot for wood bow makers use a blacksmith vise or similar for their wood bows. I happen to use a wood vise most of the time, but not Always.

And isn't sharpening always sharpening metal?

I suppose even if I had a separate location I'd wind up cross using machinery but right now I'm out of space and looking for ways to eliminate what I don't use, and I don't have much I don't use, so adding a duplicate is out of possibility.


----------



## 33706

I've always used old 'crepe' soled shoes to clean sanding belts. They work just as well, and… free.


----------



## HokieKen

If I had the space and the money, I'd be happy to have a second belt grinder and milling machine. For the time being, I'll just keep the sawdust out from under my grinder and keep the ways protected on my mill. I will admit that I once set a cotton buffing wheel on fire when the buffer was mounted behind my belt grinder. The buffer has been relocated 

But yeah, nearly everything I make, metal, wood or some amalgamation of them, gets touched by the belt grinder. And I'm working on a project now that will involve some extensive wood machining on the mill. Ya do whatcha gotta do


----------



## DLK

Well after setting a fire in a pile of sawdust behind the belt sander. I installed a second belt sander for metal. I am also out of room.


----------



## bandit571

I do have 2 grinders…one is for metal, mainly….the other has a wire wheel and a cloth wheel…..The second has a base, that I can clamp into the bench vise…then put the grinder away, when not in use.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree with you there Don. Definitely have to be careful about grinding metal around sawdust!


----------



## bandit571

Rooooooh, kay….this will not do..









Makes it a bit rough to lay out a mortise,,so









A swipe or two more?









No problem…..


----------



## bandit571

Random plane picture for today ( since the No. 8 is out of the way..)









2 Stanley No. 5 planes, sitting in front of a Stanley No. 5-1/2. Cabinet also has a No. 5-1/4, a #4, and a #3, plus a few block planes. 
Need to clear the bench..









Soo…









I could get to work, today….


----------



## corelz125

I have had a few little flames come out of the worksharp once or twice.


----------



## HokieKen

UNICORN! UNICORN! UNICORN!

Aggghhhhh! My heart can't handle Ebay today. I lost a 289 plane that sold for $30 over my bid this mornign but was still a good deal for somebody. But I couldn't keep bidding 'cause I'm saving my pennies for another auction that ends tonight. (Sorry, not letting that cat out of the bag lest one of y'all try and take it away ;-p) And now a MF #7, the only one I have yet to acquire, pops up. And all of this after we just finished booking a trip to the Grand Canyon next month and my wife just told me to keep my wallet in my pocket for a while. Good thing I have PayPal ;-)


----------



## corelz125

That's steep Kwnny.. I watched. Union #2 go for close to $300 today.


----------



## ac0rn

No, more likely a good thing you have a wife.


----------



## rad457

Safe here Kenny, above my pay scale an "may not ship to Canada", waiting to hear back on a #408 I won that now has no shipping to Canada message? LOL! have the Craftsman pulled apart can't find the time to clean an tune
Anyways, got my #407 under the bench and has actually been used! Might just get a user series of Sargent's?


----------



## adot45

My Stanley till, all type 11's where possible….not the scrubs and extra #3 on the bottom though. I guess I could also use this picture as the "before" on the before and after restoration thread. Sprucing these up is one of my next projects. You notice that I have a space available above that #6…..a guy has to have a dream right?


----------



## DevinT

Nice till! I happen to be partial to type 11 myself. Love the low knobs.


----------



## Mosquito

nice Adot, I like it


----------



## controlfreak

Looks great adot45! I have lots of Stanley's but no idea what type, it's on the "to do" list.


----------



## adot45

Thank you all. 
Devin, I really like the victory logo as well as the low knobs.
Mos, mine isn't adjustable like yours is!
controlfreak, see what you can do with this link. https://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/dating_flowchart.php#Types%201-20


----------



## controlfreak

That looks very interesting, thanks!


----------



## Mosquito

haha, that's alright, mine just got adjusted about a month ago for the… maybe 3rd or 4th time in almost 10 years 

I too was/am in the camp of V-logo and low knob. I went for T11's because of the low knob and frog adjustment screw. While I like the v-logo, it wouldn't have necessarily been something I would have chosen as a reason


----------



## drsurfrat

adot45 - are those your users? (and do you often use a scrub plane? - good workout) I have mine in drawers under my bench (no dust), but that looks like a more efficient set up.

control freak - we also have single page type studies if you like to have paper in your hand as you examine: here


----------



## drsurfrat

Since I can't find a separate sharpening thread (is there one?) I will post this here.

I was trying to find out what my water stone grit was; this pretty much seems to say somewhere between 1000 and 10,000 depending on the official scale


----------



## adot45

drsurfrat - Nope, not my users, I do use mostly rough sawn lumber from local sawmills but I'm way too old and lazy to hand plane it. My till needs some felt strips to keep the dust out more efficiently.


----------



## DLK

*drsurfrat* You might want to check the sharpening info here. I'm sure it answers your question exactly, but it may give you some ideas. It has a lot of interesting articles.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Dreaming about some NEW hand planes? :-(0)

Grizzly edirect mailing has hand planes list on sale this week. 
https://www.grizzly.com/4-19-hand-plane-sale?

ROFL


----------



## rad457

> Dreaming about some NEW hand planes? :-(0)
> 
> Grizzly edirect mailing has hand planes list on sale this week.
> https://www.grizzly.com/4-19-hand-plane-sale?
> 
> ROFL
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


Actually the price for the SW #62 seems pretty good, less than what I paid for mine, was not disappointed in the plane, jury still out on the light duty lever cap. All square, sole flat enough to use for everyone but Devin an Kenny (under a 100 passes on #220) Iron was square, took maybe 15 minutes to hollow grind an flatten/sharpen the iron to my working standards? The lack of a PMV-11 iron will probable be the only reason it gets less use than it deserves?


----------



## DevinT

LoL. I flattened my Veritas No 4 on Friday. It t took ~500 passes on 150. I was actually shocked that it had 2 hollows. One on the toe and one on the heel. Nowhere near as bad as the Stanley which had 4 hollows: 2 on the heel, 1 on the toe, and 1 in front of the mouth. The Stanley is almost done, but I ran out of sandpaper at 30k passes on the sole (82.5% complete), 4k passes on the right side (99% complete), and 2k passes on the left side (60% complete). I had to put it away after 18 days. The Veritas by comparison felt like I was holding a child's toy and it took less than 20 minutes. It was laughable.

Why flatten the Veritas? Well, I got it second hand and it is plenty old, so I didn't know what condition the sole was in. It checked mostly flat against a Starrett ruler but the granite reveals all.


----------



## HokieKen

Lovely till adot!

Don't worry, if I drop $600 on that MF #7 I'll have to take turns crashing on y'all's couches. And I'd miss my shop if the wife throws me out ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Devin, if you buy me a surface grinder, you'll never have to touch a plane sole to sandpaper again.


----------



## DevinT

How much does a good surface grinder cost?


----------



## HokieKen

$5k should get you a vintage used one big enough to do a #8.


----------



## BenDupre

My 62 cost $109 thanks to camel camel camel price watch. It's nice but the sides are not square to the sole so my plans to use it for shooting went poof. Not even sure how to fix the issue.


----------



## Johnny7

> My 62 cost $109 thanks to camel camel camel price watch. It's nice but the sides are not square to the sole so my plans to use it for shooting went poof. Not even sure how to fix the issue.
> 
> - BenDupre


My understanding is that these repop 62s have a Norris adjuster.

If so, use the lateral aspect of the adjuster to get your *blade* edge perpendicular to the edge you're shooting.


----------



## BenDupre

Going to have to try that. Thanks!


----------



## Mosquito

That's how I always did it back when I used my #7 for shooting.

My 62 cost me $160, but it was also a used LN, and I also bought the guys 164. Wishing I would have bought the 7-1/2 (low angle jointer) that he had too, but I didn't have the funds at the time.

But then again, maybe I only wish I would have bought it because they don't make them anymore… not sure how much it would actually get used. If I'm honest, the 62 doesn't get used all that often, and the 164 doesn't see too much action anymore either


----------



## HokieKen

My Veritas LAJ doesn't get used a whole lot but when I need it, I don't even bat an eye at the cabbage it cost me. It earned its keep just on the endgrain cutting boards I made for Christmas. I imagine it'll see a lot more use whenever I actually get a shooting board made too.

There's another MF Unicorn on ebay now. Not as rare as the #7 but the price is more my speed


----------



## bandit571

My WR #62 ...vs… tearout in Ash?

"Sometimes I do, and then sometimes I don't"

"Sometimes I will, and then sometimes I won't"

IF an area will show…of course it will have tear-out from the #62…..

"Chuting Board"? Haven't ever needed one….or used the use I do have….other than as a home for wayward spiders & dust bunnies…..


----------



## DevinT

Wonder if anyone here has had the pleasure of driving a Veritas BUJ


----------



## controlfreak

> My Veritas LAJ doesn't get used a whole lot but when I need it, I don't even bat an eye at the cabbage it cost me. It earned its keep just on the endgrain cutting boards I made for Christmas. I imagine it'll see a lot more use whenever I actually get a shooting board made too.
> 
> - HokieKen


Mine arrived yesterday and I played with it a bit, I like it. Can anyone recommend a shooting board design they really like. YouTube seems to have so many variants to choose from.


----------



## bandit571

Would much rather have a Stanley No. 51/51, instead..


----------



## DevinT

Ramped shooting board for the win … 




Matt Estlea wasn't the first person to do this (you can actually buy one online for $500; but why not make your own?)


----------



## GregoryH

Wow! Nice. I'm waiting on my first hand plane to come in the mail. A Stanley 91/2.


----------



## bandit571

Already have….long ago…









Took too long to set it up. Had issues with holding a part still….and, once the Stanley And Langdon Mitre Boxes were up and running…never really needed this thing, again…waste of shoptime…


----------



## DevinT

I have been toying with the idea of a shooting board where the plane is locked down to a surface mounted to rails. Keep the sides of the plane nice and it wouldn't matter how much the plane weighs, the shape of the side, or how much friction there is between the plane side and the material underneath it.

There will certainly be technical challenges, but I think it has merit. I especially like the idea of the fact that I wouldn't be fighting friction as much since it will mostly be ball bearings in play. Should make the motion more fluid.


----------



## Mosquito

> There's another MF Unicorn on ebay now. Not as rare as the #7 but the price is more my speed
> 
> - HokieKen


I thought we were friends here? Which one? 

-

I like my Veritas shooting board and shooting plane. both work well by themselves, and great together.

Between the two modern new premium shooting planes, (Veritas and LN), I think the Veritas is the better buy, and the better plane. It's a modern take on it, with modern adjustments, and I think it's just a better design. I do prefer the look of the LN though


----------



## controlfreak

> Would much rather have a Stanley No. 51/51, instead..
> 
> - bandit571


Party pooper.

I have many vintage planes but felt like I wanted a premium LAJ plane. With how crazy Ebay prices were for a vintage Stanley LAJ I decided to take the easy route. I have been wanting to make a shooting board for awhile so I wanted to have a dedicated shooting plane that likes to play with end grain well. There is a nice one that is the subject of a FWW video but it looks like it may be difficult to "dial in". Guess I need to watch for the third time.


----------



## controlfreak

> Ramped shooting board for the win …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matt Estlea wasn t the first person to do this (you can actually buy one online for $500; but why not make your own?)
> 
> - DevinT


$500, I think not, and I thought the plane was expensive. Thanks for the link but I will have to watch it after work. Boss (wife) is across the hall and YouTube videos get a big WTF. I can obviously type incognito though.


----------



## RWE

I made a shooting board that is a combination of design ideas from YouTube. Primarily it comes from

Pressure fit parts



















I added a ramp and the slick/plastic tape (Amazon).

What I liked about the design is that you use your table saw and router table to cut 90 degree dadoes so getting everything square on the fence is easier.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have the low-angle jack but not a low-angle jointer. I call the Jack the mother of all planes. It's a pleasure to use. 


> Wonder if anyone here has had the pleasure of driving a Veritas BUJ
> 
> - DevinT


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

For Bandit.










Best. Shooting Board. Ever.

;-)


----------



## Notw

Whoa Smitty are you allowed to post those types of pictures here??? there could be children


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

And they have to grow up someday. Besides, you want them to learn about shooting angles on a street corner, or here, where it's safe?


----------



## adot45

Heh heh…...this place is a hoot

That is an awesome setup.


----------



## HokieKen

> There's another MF Unicorn on ebay now. Not as rare as the #7 but the price is more my speed
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> I thought we were friends here? Which one?
> 
> - Mosquito


I can tell you now, the seller shot my offer down :-( There's a 209 which is the permaloid knob/tote and chrome version.


----------



## DevinT

Learned a lot about shooting angles. Doubly-so because I got my vaccine shot today.


----------



## Mosquito

ha, that's what I figured it was Kenny. Assumed it was the $120 one, not the $650 that came with hack saw and brace lol


----------



## BlasterStumps

What kind of rabbit hole did I find now? I bought this 22" transitional Stanley. looks to be a type 6 pre-lateral. I especially like the wood screw driven into the top of what remains of the tote. The mouth is still narrow so I don't think anyone has cut the sole (yet). I may just a smidge to get it smooth again. Whatcha transitional guys think, should I put much effort into fixing it up?


----------



## corelz125

That pic just is unfair smitty. Thats the original sticker to?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yes it is the original sticker.
.
.
.
Unfair how?
.
.
.


----------



## RWE

Blaster:

I have a Sargent transitional that is one of my favorite planes, about that size. If you set it up well, it has potential for sure. I need to circle around and tweak the others that I have picked up, mostly smoother sized ones and see if I can get them to perform better.

It is a new day for me with sharpening. I picked up two CBN wheels and have been finessing my lathe tools, bench chisels and a couple of plane irons so far. Both wheels are the Mega Square style and they are doing a fine job. So I am inclined to run back through my wooden and transitional planes to see if I can set them up a bit better.

I still go to the diamonds of course, but getting the bevel almost there is so much easier with the CBN wheels. I like the transistionals and the wooden planes and setting one with a hammer is not that bad.

I am on the lookout for one if you want to give that one up. I am thinking about doing the shooting plane build that was linked earlier in the thread by Don W. and JayT.

Transistional to Infill Shooting Plane


----------



## MikeB_UK

Talking of transitional planes.

The casting for an interchangeable sole pattern makers plane just turned up this morning.
Always wanted one of these, but was too cheap to buy one


----------



## corelz125

Because looking at your plane smitty is like looking at a Ferrari. I want one but can't afford one.


----------



## DanKrager

I've been fascinated by compound angle capability. Some you can buy, some you can't, and some you can't afford. Well, I can't.


















DanK


----------



## BlasterStumps

RWE, I don't know just yet what my plan is for the transitional. I think I will clean it up, sharpen the blade and see what it is like to plane with. This is the first one I have brought home so I would like to try it out. Not too fond of the wood screw digging into my hand when I hold the tote so I go to do something with it. : )


----------



## BlasterStumps

Hope the shot went well. Probably wont want to push that No 8 around for a day or so.



> Learned a lot about shooting angles. Doubly-so because I got my vaccine shot today.
> 
> - DevinT


----------



## RWE

I think that you will find that you like that plane. I enjoy hunting rust so I am good. I wasn't that serious about wanting it, only if you were not going to give it a go and repair that tote. Thanks for the reply.


----------



## Mosquito

> Talking of transitional planes.
> 
> The casting for an interchangeable sole pattern makers plane just turned up this morning.
> Always wanted one of these, but was too cheap to buy one
> 
> - MikeB_UK


Mike that's awesome, I was just looking around at pattern makers planes earlier this week for fun. I think they're really cool


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Mike that s awesome, I was just looking around at pattern makers planes earlier this week for fun. I think they re really cool
> 
> - Mosquito


Yeah Mos

I've got a wooden one, but could never find one of the metal bodied one's at a price I wanted to pay (Well, I've got a mini one that takes half inch irons).

So now I need to build the infills and soles, oh, and shape some irons without a forge, It's possible I didn;t think this through very well


----------



## DevinT

Thanks BlasterStumps. Yeah, the arm I got the shot in was hurting something fierce by bedtime. It still hurts this morning but I have been told by many that it should be fine tomorrow


----------



## Mosquito

> So now I need to build the infills and soles, oh, and shape some irons without a forge, It s possible I didn;t think this through very well
> 
> - MikeB_UK


haha, a lot of this would be a lot less fun if we thought rationally :-D


----------



## controlfreak

> Thanks BlasterStumps. Yeah, the arm I got the shot in was hurting something fierce by bedtime. It still hurts this morning but I have been told by many that it should be fine tomorrow
> 
> - DevinT


It's the second dose that you need to worry about. I felt bad for two days after. It hits some worse than others. Still glad I got it though.


----------



## DevinT

controlfreak, well anything is better than catching a case of DEATH!


----------



## DevinT

I'm having a hard time conceptualizing how these "fences" work on this strange plane once-produced by Bridge City Tools.

Bridge City Toolworks HP-6 Plane & Accessories - $2,075

Can anyone help me to understand how that thing is supposed to be used?


----------



## bandit571

Trying to make a block plane into a combo/molding plane….4th picture shows how to use one set of fences…maybe as a Match Plane?


----------



## DevinT

I just … if this is a plane, won't those hardwood blocks attached to the offset walls sitting on rods prevent the blade from touching the surface you want to plane? I'm just at a loss as to how to read this picture. It's an enigma to me.


----------



## DevinT

Or is the blade so supposed to protrude from the top, all the way past those wooden "feet"? That makes no sense to me because then the blade is just sitting in this chasm with no mouth to compress the fibers being lifted by the blade, and is there like 3 inches of just dead air that the blade is just floating above the wood?


----------



## Lazyman

Maybe for centering a board when cutting tongue and groove or other edge profiles?


----------



## DevinT

Ah! Not on face surfaces but on edges! Duh … moldings go on edges and the edge goes in between those feet.

Derp. OK! That makes sense. I don't know why my brain wanted to use this thing on a flat (face) surface. That's actually not a bad design then in my opinion.


----------



## BlasterStumps

"I don't know why my brain wanted to use this thing on a flat (face) surface."

I'd blame it on the shot! : )


----------



## donwilwol

> "I don't know why my brain wanted to use this thing on a flat (face) surface."
> 
> I d blame it on the shot! : )
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Drinking will do that


----------



## corelz125

Any divider fans in here? Recently acquire these 10" Johnson dividers


----------



## RWE

I picked up a Pexto 10 inch a few months back.










Little brother is a Starrett










The Pexto is solid. I really like it. I use some shorter more pedestrian dividers for dovetails.


----------



## corelz125

The pexto looks nice and solid rwe.


----------



## HokieKen

I have several dividers of different makes and sizes. They are definitely handy for layout work.

Spring calipers like RWE's starrett get more use in my shop though. I will often have 4 or 5 set for various dismeters when I'm turning wood.


----------



## bandit571

Had a small pair of outside calipers in my hand, today….turned it down for…









Seymore Smith & Son double spokeshave…









Maybe tomorrow, I can clean the Clear Coat off and see about a tune-up? 
Dividers?









I might have a few sitting around…..
..


----------



## BenDupre

Buck Rodgers egg beater drill for sale this weekend on FB Can I Have It tool auction

Link


----------



## HokieKen

Won't let me view it Ben. But I already have both models so I guess I don't need to  Thanks for posting though!


----------



## DevinT

Does this count as a divider or is it strictly a compass? Or does it count for both?


----------



## Phil32

It counts as both.


----------



## corelz125

Who made that one Devin?


----------



## DevinT

corelz125, company named Ally Tools, available here


----------



## corelz125

Ok so its a new tool. It's listed as a divider and compass.


----------



## HokieKen

Those definitely count for both Devin. I have a pair of dividers similar to those with the "chiseled" tips instead of the conical points. I don't like them as well personally as dividers but I like them a lot for scribing arcs. The faceted point leaves a better line without having to put much pressure on it.


----------



## bandit571

These two got a bit of work, over the weekend…









Spokeshave to clean up all the burn marks from the bandsaw….#9 to flatten the top a bit….and level the base a bit..









And a Jack plane was used as a Jointer….I figured it could handle a 2' long edge…( Sargent, made for Sears Craftsman….No. 414)


----------



## DevinT

bandit571, nice corbels, if that is indeed what they are


----------



## HokieKen

70 minutes until somebody gets DeLuxe…


----------



## bandit571

> bandit571, nice corbels, if that is indeed what they are
> 
> - DevinT


add-on for the shelf the monitor was supposed to sit on…









And..without the monitor in the way..


----------



## DevinT

bandit571, oh it looked like 2 separate pieces in your first photo


----------



## MikeB_UK

Just got myself a shiny new (well, newish) Jointer from ebay.
£27 including delivery. Gotta love ebay sometimes 

Beech body, lignum vitae sole, the irons never even been taken out of the wrapper.
The iron is stamped Peugeot, which probably means this has sat on a shelf somewhere since the 70's (But I'm not great at dating French planes so could be wrong)


----------



## RWE

That is s very nice looking plane. May be the first "modern" woody that I have seen.


----------



## drsurfrat

Wow, very nice. I know they made cars and bicycles, but never heard of planes. Big sucker, too. What is the name the side (in red)?


----------



## DevinT

Wow, nice find!


----------



## Johnny7

> Wow, very nice. I know they made cars and bicycles, but never heard of planes. Big sucker, too. What is the name the side (in red)?
> 
> - drsurfrat


Goldenberg

These planes were indeed made in the 70's, as that's when Goldenberg and Peugeot entered into a cooperative agreement.


----------



## HokieKen

I had a buddy in HS that had a Peugot car. I remember thinking that the car was a POS but it had a really cool hood ornament.

Edit: I guess it was a radiator ornament, not a hood ornament. I still think it's pretty cool though.


















Looks like their newer designs have considerably more sexy slathered on em…


----------



## RWE

I am a history buff. If any of you are familiar with the works of Patrick O'Brian (Russell Crowe was in a movie based on his novels called "Master and Commander"), you would see the reverence his protagonist, a British Navy Captain had for a French Built ship. The French were some of the finest woodworkers during the heyday of hand tool woodworking. We all know about a Roubo workbench. Those novels were works of fiction, but based on O'Brian's exhaustive knowledge of the period.

One of the amusing things about that period of sailing ships and the men that created and sailed them is that the ship's carpenter in the British Navy was very highly regarded and was always called Chips or Mr. Chips.

If that plane is part of that strong French hand tool lineage it is probably a very nice and well crafted plane.

All Peugeot had to do was make a decent iron. I expect Goldenberg made the body and had a history there in France much like Stanley in the US.


----------



## RWE

Several years back, Bandit offered some rather odd looking planes to anyone interested. I took him up on the offer. After dong my "history buff" post above, the name Goldenberg came floating back into my memory.



















Another one, note: these comments were from Workingbyhand about the complete plane shown below:
https://workingbyhand.wordpress.com/2013/09/30/identifying-european-wooden-planes/

A beautiful plane, and maybe a rare find. The plane blade in this case is a Goldenberg, (a French tool company) and likely a replacement as it has been modified (i.e. the hole cut in the centre!). This method of locking together the cap iron to the cutter is known as the "Long screw". The Goldenberg catalogue described this as the "Bavarian" pattern, with various other patterns describing changes in the head of the screw. The use of the "Long screw" cap iron was restricted to Austria, Switzerland and France, which shows that knowledge about a planes components can help in finding its locale.










The planes should look more like this one:










They are missing the bottom section and I have chosen not to put them in working order simply because they are too cool as is. May add a bottom to one someday. They sit in my office.
*

From my research back in 2019:*

The French/German confusion (post #144341, reply #4 of 8)
by crsmith in reply to Piranga [original] on Tue, 01/12/2010 - 09:39
The French/German confusion may be attributable to the fact that the company originated in the Lorraine region, and like the Alsace district, over the last two centuries has variously been under the ownership of Germany and France as it lies in the border region between these two countries.
I have several Goldenberg planes, and became sufficiently interested in them that I began searching information from some French and German museums. As best as I can translate it (using my high school German and French), here is what I know about Goldenberg et Cie. (and Co.)...
Jean Guillaume (or, in German, Johann Wilhelm) Goldenberg (7 December 1778 to 18 February 1858), was born in Remscheid in Bliedingshausen, but for political reasons moved to Baerenthal in the Lorraine district of France (Alsace and Lorraine being the two districts between France and Germany which changed hands at times). There, from 1826 he was the Director of the iron works, which had been purchased by Jacques Coulaux in 1818. Goldenberg had great success in the development of this work and the improvement in steel production. As well, he improved the health of the residents by draining the local marshes and reducing the mosquito population, which served as a vector of disease.
Guillaume's son Jean Gustave (Gustav Friedrich Paul Albert) Goldenberg was born on 10 May 1805 in Remscheid. In 1818 he went with his father in Molsheim. His career began in a small shop where side arms were manufactured. Because of a lack of factory orders, he used his metallurgical knowledge for the manufacturing of tools, and in 1835 he founded his first factory in Dorlisheim in Alsace. This was followed, two years later in 1837, by a second factory in Zornhoff in Saverne. Initially, only files were made, but later the product line expanded to include general tools, saws, coffee grinders, agricultural equipment and plane irons. The first catalogue was published in 1838.
In 1850, the company began operating under the name 'Goldenberg et Cie' [Goldenberg and Co.] Mention of the company was first made in the "Official Report on the Industrial Exhibition of all nations to London in 1851", in the section on French participants at the exhibition. The record indicates that G. Goldenberg et Cie., a large establishment at Zornhoff near Saverne in Alsace, produced "hardware and edge tools". Goldenberg et Cie. sent an extensive collection of different tools to the Exhibition, for which they received a medal for their saws and tools.
In 1870 they established a new plant in Tronville en Barrois, with the name 'French Tool Manufacturer, formerly Goldenberg & Cie'. At the same time, the parent factory in Zornhoff changed its name to 'Alsatian Zornhoff Tool Factory, formerly Goldenberg & Cie'.
Starting in 1893, the first full planes were produced in Tronville.
In 1897 there was a large fire at the factory in Zornhof. Within two hours, almost a half million [Marks] of equipment was destroyed. The fire, whose origin was unexplained, began in the polishing studio. Of significance, it destroyed the smithery where the valuable machinery was located.
In 1924, the two parts of the company in Tronville and Zornhoff were merged into one entity, the "Former Companies Goldenberg et Cie".
Between the world wars, the sale of tools waned because of competition with Peugeot and the increasing presence of American tools.
In the 1970's, Goldenberg and the tool portion of Peugeot entered into a cooperative agreement and formed the company SICFO (Société Industrialist et Commerciale Française d'Outillage) [French Industrial and Commercial Tool Company]. In 1986, SICFO was purchased by the British arm of Stanley.
From beginning production in 1835 until 1893, only the plane irons bore the company's mark. The trademark consisted of the name, an eye, or "Zornhoff" with a zig-zag. Later, the name Goldenberg was accompanied by one of three characters to denote the quality of the steel, the best being marked by the eye and the others by a hand or a swan. Beginning in 1893, the plane's body was stamped with 'Goldenberg'.
There were two production lines of planes, one for domestic use and one for export. The export line was made of hornbeam and had a nose with a rounded shape (very similar to the planes of John Weiss & Son). As well, iron planes were made for the British market. Shortly after World War II, the iron was stamped 'Goldenberg Acier Chrome' [chrome steel], the body was marked according to the wood type, and included a medallion bearing the mark Zornhoff.
I hope that helps. Any errors in the above information are mine!
Charles R. Smith MD

From http://forums.finewoodworking.com/fine-woodworking-knots/hand-tools/french-plane

German museum site with many images of the plane makers marks
https://www.holzwerken.de/museum/hersteller/goldenberg.phtml


----------



## MikeB_UK

And the sole is flat, well, my idea of flat, not Devin's (I have been known to use a 2×4 as a straight edge before now though).

Turns out my bench is very not flat, so I've got something to test it on already, not sure where I'm going to store it but I'll figure that out.


----------



## HokieKen

My idea of flat is akin to Devin's. However my commitment to achieving it falls well short of hers ;-)


----------



## controlfreak

I got the granite and paper, they just sit there in my shop. I ask them if they are done yet daily but no.


----------



## drsurfrat

> I got the granite and paper, they just sit there in my shop. I ask them if they are done yet daily but no.
> - controlfreak


That's right! you need to leave it up to the plane as to how flat it wants to be.


----------



## Ocelot

Nice plane!

On my wrist today..


----------



## DevinT

Just biding my time until I can buy more sandpaper. LoL

Just bought a wheel marking gauge, some embedment nuts, and set screws today. I hear people like those little set screws on the sides of the plane blade. Thought I try to do that in wood.


----------



## bandit571

Trying to fix a crack…









Used a Dremel to grind a better channel..









To fill the crack..









Then beltsand when the stuff has cured..









Tested out as a Junior Jointer on Ash..









And then the face grain on the same board…









Stanley No. 5-1/4 Junior Jack. Mid 60s, blue paint….yellow background in the lever cap logo…
Ready for work.

Spokeshaves..the current line-up…









With the new arrival out in front…there is one problem…









New arrival has a HEAVY coat of ClearCoat…that needs to….go. Then both irons need sharpened…for size reference..









Starrett No. 85…..PEXTO 8"....and the Seymore Smith & Son….


----------



## corelz125

I never had any luck with epoxy or jb weld to fix cracks.


----------



## donwilwol

> I never had any luck with epoxy or jb weld to fix cracks.
> 
> - corelz125


I haven't either.


----------



## donwilwol

> I never had any luck with epoxy or jb weld to fix cracks.
> 
> - corelz125


I haven't either.


----------



## HokieKen

Ditto for me. JB weld is much better as a filler than a structural component. Might work fine on Bandit's cheek though since there isn't much movement going on there.


----------



## bandit571

More on that Stanley No. 5-1/4….









Sole is flat, and polished….Test track set up…









Ugly Oak? Give it a try?









Might work even better..IF was going WITH the grain? Flip over and try the other face…









I think that will just have to do….for a Jack plane…


----------



## bandit571

That double Spokeshave in the picture? ClearCoat removed when I worked on the soles…









Irons were also sharpened up ( to 2K grit, then the Unicorn Edge) Test drive the curved part..









May get used as a round-over "bit"? Might be ready to a little work?









That little Ball Peen hammer comes in handy as a depth setter…


----------



## RWE

Estate Sale popped up in my neighborhood. I did not make out like a bandit or the Bandit, but I got one very useful article, a magnifying lamp. I have a Harbor Freight lamp that is just so so, so I am hoping this lamp will be useful for hand saw sharpening and carving.










Picked up a 60's - 80's green color Craftsman/Stanley 9 1/2. Lots of rust, but will clean up. It was a mercy purchase, hate to see a potentially decent plane waste away.










But I am posting to make Hokie jealous. How bout a Millers Falls tape measure. Try to contain yourself Mr. Hokie. Look at the beautiful patina and wear markings!!










Plus a Lufkin folding ruler with the brass slide.










Also got a rechargeable Dremel? Hope it works.

$15.00 for the lot. If the magnifying lamp works, worth the time.


----------



## HokieKen

I must admit, I don't have a MF measuring tape. I do have a MF folding rule with slider though ;-)


----------



## DevinT

Ken, so what's up with the "V-line" from MF? Better? Worse? Same as the other MF's?


----------



## donwilwol

> Ken, so what's up with the "V-line" from MF? Better? Worse? Same as the other MF's?
> 
> - DevinT


if i was Millers Falls, I'd be embarrassed. They are the handyman equivalent.


----------



## donwilwol

> Ken, so what's up with the "V-line" from MF? Better? Worse? Same as the other MF's?
> 
> - DevinT


if i was Millers Falls, I'd be embarrassed. They are the handyman equivalent.


----------



## HokieKen

Worse Devin. I would like to qualify that with a "in my opinion" but I don't think that's the case. They're just worse. Intentionally so, they were made to be a low-priced option. In my experience, they aren't worth owning.


----------



## RWE

Just to make you really upset, look at the cool back side of that fine Millers Falls tape. I don't think I have ever seen one with decimal equivalents. Kind of interesting.


----------



## HokieKen

I think I'd even call them inferior to the Handyman line Don. The couple I've had, the machining was absolutely atrocious.


----------



## drsurfrat

Yes, I put an almost new one (No900) on fleece-bay and will be lucky to get $10.


----------



## HokieKen

That is pretty cool RWE


----------



## donwilwol

> I think I d even call them inferior to the Handyman line Don. The couple I ve had, the machining was absolutely atrocious.
> 
> - HokieKen


well you know how i feel about handyman. the only thing inferior to a handyman is a broken handyman.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't know about the Handyman line, never actually had one, but the frogs were "machined" on a belt sander rather than milled or ground on the V-line tools.

Anyone considering a Millers Falls plane can look for three things to identify a better quality example:

3 point lever cap
recessed face on the depth adjuster nut
flat head hardware on knob and tote

Anything else is either type 5 or V line. Neither are worth having IMO.


----------



## RWE

You guys are too hard on those planes. They make nice colorful accent pieces in an office setting. I call them my "deplorables".

Here is a refurbed MF 900 that I picked up at a local flea market. Probably spent $30 bucks on high priced model spray paint to match the original color.



















Here is the cast of deplorables: The Dunlap was new in the box. The Victor is a later, less desirable model. The Dunlap might be a good user, but I keep it new and unused. I forget the plastic knob planes name, maybe a Great Neck? I only like block planes that have an adjustable mouth so these just sit.










Looks like I need to dust the "deplorables". Cheap, but colorful.


----------



## donwilwol

yes, some "can" be made to work. My one and only hand plane restoration video series stars a Handyman. And it actually worked really well in the end.

https://www.timetestedtools.net/category/hand-planes/hand-plane-restoration-help/hand-plane-restore-videos/


----------



## bandit571

I do have a V-Line in the shop…sits on a shelf….I do NOT have any Handyman "Bench" planes….

Friday Garage sale…$5.50…









Tap & Die set…..$5….John S. Fay & Co. No.2 Extension….$0.50

Not too bad of a morning…


----------



## BenDupre

RWE - those look like they belong hanging on a Christmas tree


----------



## RWE

Lots of holiday colors for sure. The Dunlap smoother was made by Sargent I believe and I think it would be a pretty nice user. I just don't need it in the shop. I think the Victor would be ok as well.

When I am stuck in the office, it gives me something pleasant to look at.


----------



## DevinT

Say what you want, I like the look of the Stanley 2-tone planes. They might function like sh!t, but I like their looks.

I am also a huge fan of the Victor line (pre-Stanley). What can I say? I like accents. However, I don't think I would be willing to plunk down $1k for this baby


----------



## donwilwol

> Say what you want, I like the look of the Stanley 2-tone planes. They might function like sh!t, but I like their looks.
> 
> I am also a huge fan of the Victor line (pre-Stanley). What can I say? I like accents. However, I don t think I would be willing to plunk down $1k for this baby
> 
> - DevinT


I think they have their Victor lines confused. 2 tone planes were not nearly as bad as the handyman. 2 tone planes were reasonable users. once tuned.


----------



## DevinT

> [snip]
> I think they have their Victor lines confused.
> [snip]
> 
> - Don W


Who? The seller? Is that not a pre-Stanley Victor?


----------



## Savlaka

I don't have anything rare or odd, but two of my favorite planes are this Sargent 3422 I restored:


















This one has the old horseshoe lateral.
I don't have any "before" pics, sorry… But if it tells you anything the blade, chip breaker, and frog were rusted together when I got it - had to use a chisel to separate them. The wood screws going into the body were badly rusted too, and the holes heavily worn out. I used 3/4" dowels to repair the holes and replaced the screws with new, brass, screws. I Painted the cast parts, and I used Spar varnish on the body, except for the sole… I used minwax's wood hardener there to fill some of the fine cracks remaining after I flattened it.
I use it as my go to plane for general jointing work. And I works very well for this.

The other favorite is a 5 1/4 sized plane, it's a "household jack plane" by stanley, if my research is correct is was part of their 4 square tools, made in the mid to late 1920's :









It honestly works better as a fine finish smoother than any of the #3's or #4's I have it easily takes translucent shaving's…


----------



## drsurfrat

the 1860's Victor line is ENTIRELY different than the 1960's line.


----------



## HokieKen

I love how the seller admits they "don't know anything about them" then prices his $70 plane at a grand


----------



## DevinT

drsurfrat, I am well aware that Stanley was taken to court for using Bailey's product-line names-unfortunately Bailey lost and they continued to plagiarize the names Defiance and Victor.

I've never seen a non-Stanley Victor, and I thought based on the price of $1k that I was looking at one of the non-Stanley's (the word Stanley surely doesn't appear anywhere on the plane).

How can you spot a vintage Victor?


----------



## HokieKen

Here's a Bailey Victor:


----------



## DevinT

Wow, that looks completely different!

I hope nobody buys that $1k Stanley imposter only to find out that they have a $70 hand plane.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm guessing at $70, I've never shopped the Victor line. That may be a little generous…


----------



## donwilwol

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/02/11/the-victor-planes-by-stanley/


----------



## DevinT

My Dad said that his father had (may he RIP) a whole bunch of Defiance tools. I've been bugging him for weeks to get down to the garage and unearth them, because he said that his dad got them from his grandfather. I think there's a very good chance that they might be Bailey Defiance planes, though my dad said that [my] Grandpa was a cheap bastard and didn't invest in expensive tools. Not sure if his father (my great grandfather) was the same way, but Dad says almost all the tools in our family were handed down from my great grandfather.

I guess I'll just have to keep bugging my dad until we know if we have a Seldon Bailey Defiance from Woonsocket, Rhode Island, or the Stanley imposters.

ASIDE: Stanley was a real piece of work for ripping off Bailey's names.


----------



## HokieKen

To be fair, Stanley didn't rip them off, they bought both the Victor and Defiance plane lines way back in the 19th century long before they re-used the names.


----------



## donwilwol

> My Dad said that his father had (may he RIP) a whole bunch of Defiance tools. I ve been bugging him for weeks to get down to the garage and unearth them, because he said that his dad got them from his grandfather. I think there s a very good chance that they might be Bailey Defiance planes, though my dad said that [my] Grandpa was a cheap bastard and didn t invest in expensive tools. Not sure if his father (my great grandfather) was the same way, but Dad says almost all the tools in our family were handed down from my great grandfather.
> 
> I guess I ll just have to keep bugging my dad until we know if we have a Seldon Bailey Defiance from Woonsocket, Rhode Island, or the Stanley imposters.
> 
> ASIDE: Stanley was a real piece of work for ripping off Bailey s names.
> 
> - DevinT


If they were your great grandfathers, they had to be the original. And as Kenny said, Stanley and Bailey had a long turbulent relationship. Lawyers probably became wealthy due to that relationship. A lot of the court cases are documented in PTAMPIA


----------



## donwilwol

> My Dad said that his father had (may he RIP) a whole bunch of Defiance tools. I ve been bugging him for weeks to get down to the garage and unearth them, because he said that his dad got them from his grandfather. I think there s a very good chance that they might be Bailey Defiance planes, though my dad said that [my] Grandpa was a cheap bastard and didn t invest in expensive tools. Not sure if his father (my great grandfather) was the same way, but Dad says almost all the tools in our family were handed down from my great grandfather.
> 
> I guess I ll just have to keep bugging my dad until we know if we have a Seldon Bailey Defiance from Woonsocket, Rhode Island, or the Stanley imposters.
> 
> ASIDE: Stanley was a real piece of work for ripping off Bailey s names.
> 
> - DevinT


If they were your great grandfathers, they had to be the original. And as Kenny said, Stanley and Bailey had a long turbulent relationship. Lawyers probably became wealthy due to that relationship. A lot of the court cases are documented in PTAMPIA


----------



## DevinT

Then what was the big court battle over?


----------



## donwilwol

> Then what was the big court battle over?
> 
> - DevinT


which one?  they were over contract disputes, patent infringements etc, etc. Bailey was bought out by Stanley, agreed to work for them, quit, went back making his own, back and forth like a yo-yo. And how Seldon Bailey was involved is a bit of a mystery. I'm sure actually ready all of PTAMPIA may sort it out, but it hurts my head!


----------



## Johnny7

> https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/02/11/the-victor-planes-by-stanley/
> 
> - Don W


Wow, Don-The picture at the top of the article takes me back.

Doc Bailey bought that plane for $1.00 ten years ago and sold it to a collector for many, many times that amount. It was never used, and in it's original box.

That pic was taken in my driveway. Here's another shot of it:


----------



## donwilwol

> Then what was the big court battle over?
> 
> - DevinT


which one?  they were over contract disputes, patent infringements etc, etc. Bailey was bought out by Stanley, agreed to work for them, quit, went back making his own, back and forth like a yo-yo. And how Seldon Bailey was involved is a bit of a mystery. I'm sure actually ready all of PTAMPIA may sort it out, but it hurts my head!


----------



## HokieKen

I *THINK* it was a patent dispute when Bailey parted ways with Stanley and began making his own planes. IIRC, Stanley had purchased the rights to Bailey's patents and he was still using some aspects of the patented designs and Stanley went after him and won.


----------



## DevinT

> [snip]
> And how Seldon Bailey was involved is a bit of a mystery.
> [snip]
> 
> - Don W


Seldon is involved because it was Seldon Bailey Tool Co that produced the Defiance line in Woonsocket RI.

Victor/Defiance planes

Quoth:

"... the Defiance line of planes produced in RI by Seldon Baily and the Bailey Tool co. of Woonsocket RI."

Quoth:

"Although Seldon and Leonard Bailey were not directly related there was a connection, and for a period of time when Leonard was in contract disputes with Stanley he was connected with Seldon in Woonsocket Rhode Island when this and the Victor line of planes were being produced."

Quoth:

"At one point [Leonard] was working out of location producing these planes in RI, that bears his same last name but actually was run by a different fellow Seldon Baily."


----------



## bandit571

This one came through the shop a few years ago…









Before a rehab….it was a bit rough around the edges…

The V-line by Millers Falls, after a tune-up









And..



























Still sitting down in the shop…IF anyone wants it…


----------



## bandit571

Brought it home from a Village Yard Sale thingy….$10…..


----------



## drsurfrat

> ...
> How can you spot a vintage Victor?
> - DevinT


The really beautiful knob, the decorative lever cap; and the tote (like the knob) is cast iron. The larger plane totes had a flange at the back for a second screw. The block planes are also very different, kinda boat shaped, with the same ornate treatment.








[from AntiqBuyer.com]


----------



## DevinT

I found this:


----------



## DevinT

So even the one you pictured with ornate knobs may have been sold by Stanley even if it wasn't made by Stanley. I think that depends on what "general agents" means in this context

"The tools comprising this list are made under the direct supervision of Leonard Bailey, the original inventor of L. Bailey's Patent Adjustable Iron and Wood Bench Planes. The Stanley Rule & Level Company are General Agents for the sale of these goods."

Also very interesting that they could be ordered with wood handles if-so desired:

"The Victor Planes have Iron Handles. They will be furnished with Wood Handles if so ordered."


----------



## bandit571

No. 1204 Victor, by Stanley…

However…IF you happen to see one of these…..









Do not touch, just turn around, and RUN the other way…...


----------



## DevinT

bandit, the plane on the left in the picture containing 3, the logo on the lever cap kinda has a Blade Runner feel to it


----------



## bandit571

That be a No. 1103…..

These all can be made to work….just that they could not HOLD a setting….


----------



## HokieKen

I don't know what year that catalog page is from but there were at least a couple of years after Stanley bought the Defiance and Victor lines from the two (unrelated) Baileys that production continued before Stanley stuck a fork in em. It's possible that's why Stanley was a "general agent(s)" for distribution.


----------



## donwilwol

> [snip]
> And how Seldon Bailey was involved is a bit of a mystery.
> [snip]
> 
> - Don W
> 
> Seldon is involved because it was Seldon Bailey Tool Co that produced the Defiance line in Woonsocket RI.
> 
> Victor/Defiance planes
> 
> Quoth:
> 
> "... the Defiance line of planes produced in RI by Seldon Baily and the Bailey Tool co. of Woonsocket RI."
> 
> Quoth:
> 
> "Although Seldon and Leonard Bailey were not directly related there was a connection, and for a period of time when Leonard was in contract disputes with Stanley he was connected with Seldon in Woonsocket Rhode Island when this and the Victor line of planes were being produced."
> 
> Quoth:
> 
> "At one point [Leonard] was working out of location producing these planes in RI, that bears his same last name but actually was run by a different fellow Seldon Baily."
> 
> - DevinT


that's directly from PTAMPIA. But it's theorized it's more than that, and even some of that is speculative. 1878 (when that is about) is after L bailey worked for Stanley and left and was being sued. So it''s a pretty tangled web


----------



## donwilwol

and in 1876 Sargent Co. was even involved


----------



## donwilwol

and in 1876 Sargent Co. was even involved


----------



## drsurfrat

Is there a place in LumberJocks to put references? There is some information, like type studies, that I'd like to find (or share), but a search only finds things like forum threads where you have to dig thru thousands of comments.

Kenny has a google drive for label repros,, and I have a drop box available for type studies, but it'd be easier to have here "local" and easily findable.


----------



## RWE

All this talk about the Victor planes made me look into the one I picked up some more. It seems that it is older and therefore more worthy of respect than I remembered. In my simple formula, most things after the 40's are headed to the "junk" state. The main tell to me is the detail in the tote and knob, whether brass was used for the screws and the general feel of the plane.

Stanley's Junk web site

*The Victor Line

Not to be confused with the very early Leonard Bailey designed Victor, the Stanley Victor line was the successor to the Four Square. Victors were manufactured from about 1936 through the beginning of WWII (about 1942) and came in 3 sizes of bench plane, 1103, 1104 and 1105, as well as an 1120 block plane. Though there is some confusion about exact production dates, a later version showed up again in about 1952-53 for a national promotion but only lasted those two years. Designed for the homeowner, the earlier planes were similar in appearance to the Baileys with black japanned castings and frog. The hardwood tote and knob were painted/stained black and the plane looked much like the Baileys produced during and just after WWII. Speculation would lead one to believe that perhaps during the shortages of the war, Stanley substituted parts from each line to supplement those needed for the Bailey planes then produced.

The later Victor planes featured a brightly colored red cap iron, tote and knob, gray painted casting and plated lever cap with "VICTOR" embossing with red background. Clearly distinct aesthetics but with similar configurations to the earlier Four Square and Bailey. *

So my Victor (1104) is 1952-53 and since I was born in 52, I am going to like it a bit more. It may demand some shop time. I don't know if the limited time span it was offered makes it more desirable or not. It is a nice looking plane if you don't mind the painted chip breaker.


----------



## HokieKen

Nope. Nothing like that available on the site Mike. Don has a pretty good collection of stuff on his site though.


----------



## bandit571

A very different Defiance plane….a #3 size..


















A one of a kind lever cap…









Yes, that IS the frog…

Don't bother to strip the handle finish….that RED colour goes all the way through..


----------



## DevinT

bandit571, gorgeous! That frog though. How does the thing work in your opinion?


----------



## DevinT

bandit, that frog positively identifies it as an Eclipse sold for Montgomery Ward in the 1930's as part of the Stanley Defiance line sold in department stores. The normal defiance line had a traditional frog


----------



## RWE

I had my hands on one of those Defiance planes with the weird frog. I was traveling to the beach, stopped at an Antique store on the way, saw it and passed on it since I did not know what it was. I did some research, stopped by again and passed on it the second time. I believe that the issue was that it was too pricey for what it was. I don't like missing out on something and it haunted me for several months. Now that I finally got over it, here comes Bandit and I am haunted again.


----------



## DevinT

So, I learned something this morning.

Turns out, that Rob Cosman was not the first person to conceptualize the "AdjuStar" style depth adjuster …

Squiggly bottom jack plane

Faucet blade adjuster transitional

And Rob Cosman's AdjuStar for comparison


----------



## corelz125

I sold one defiance like that and might have one or 2 more like it. Are the 1200 series.


----------



## DevinT

Anybody ever had the pleasure of driving a Shelton like this?


----------



## DevinT

It looks like the Eclipse Defiance wasn't the only (or even the first) plane to use that style of "frog"

Apparently the first was a Libterty Bell 104 manufactured between 1876 and 1904. About 3-6 decades before the Eclipse.


----------



## 33706

> It looks like the Eclipse Defiance wasn t the only (or even the first) plane to use that style of "frog"
> 
> Apparently the first was a Libterty Bell 104 manufactured between 1876 and 1904. About 3-6 decades before the Eclipse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - DevinT


The Liberty Bell planes by Stanley did not even have a lateral adjuster. Whether iron or transitional, I keep buying 'em!


----------



## DevinT

And here, I was worried that because my next hand plane design which uses a unique adjuster was going to suffer from not being Bed Rock style-these planes (type 1-2 Liberty, and then later Eclipse Defiance) have barely anything at all supporting the blade. Given these styles, I'm more apt to believe that the Bed Rock is an extreme bedding while the non-BR beddings are still quite adequate at reducing chatter compared to the Liberty et. al.

poopiekat, what's your experience with the blade movement through the wood on those Liberty planes with such style "frog?" Is chatter noticeable in the finished product?


----------



## bandit571

Liberty Bell No. 122..









Wasn't much bigger than a No. 220 Block plane…









Depth adjuster was that finger loop….

Arlin Eastman now has this little critter….as I have moved "up" to an Ohio Tool Co. No. 0-35….









And, the frog is better…









Iron is a bit thick…









But tapered….makes for a wide mouth…


----------



## donwilwol

> Anybody ever had the pleasure of driving a Shelton like this?
> 
> - DevinT


Yes. I've had several. Made them all scrubs. Terrible smoothers.


----------



## DevinT

Don. Thanks. Good to know.


----------



## rad457

Here is one for you Devin, did take a lot more work than expected, but it cuts clean thick and thin.
Blade has a lot of pitting so will not get a lot of use


----------



## DevinT

Nice shavings indeed.


----------



## adot45

> Say what you want, I like the look of the Stanley 2-tone planes. They might function like sh!t, but I like their looks.
> 
> I am also a huge fan of the Victor line (pre-Stanley). What can I say? I like accents. However, I don t think I would be willing to plunk down $1k for this baby
> 
> - DevinT





















The block plane has a navy blue base and yellow lever cap and FWIW it has a Z stamped in it. The bench plane has a maroon base, aprox. #4 sized, yellow chip breaker and Stanley (in script) 50-51 iron.


----------



## 33706

poopiekat, what s your experience with the blade movement through the wood on those Liberty planes with such style "frog?" Is chatter noticeable in the finished product?

- DevinT
[/QUOTE]

My Liberty Bells languish in a glass showcase, mostly. I saw that on most of mine the frog is moved back far enough so that the cutter firmly rests on the back surface of the mouth. To me these are just a blip in history, just a semi-collectible oddity. But I like 'em!


----------



## BenDupre

Wow! Two-tone planes? I just saw that same pair at an estate sale today. I passed because they looked like junk. The smoother had a Stanley Rule and Level blade and the latteral was stamped and folded. The block had a green cap. I had no idea what I was looking at. Both were so rusted you could not tell they were colored. Both were missing the front knob.

So I assume the SRL cutter was transplanted right?


----------



## DevinT

Wow, never seen this color of blue on a plane before. I like this.

Whitemore hand plane made in Britain


----------



## 33706

The inscription is familiar to me on that Whitmore plane. It's identical to that of the Rapier planes, and probably a few others as well.

Check out this older thread about British planes. They seem to be a bit more prevalent here in Canada.

https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/91602


----------



## theoldfart

Record planes are usually blue.


----------



## DevinT

As are Kobalt, but not THAT kind of blue. I like the metallic paints such as the blue used on that Whitmore as well as the metallic green used on vintage Craftsman planes


----------



## RWE

From my post a page or two back, on Defiance planes:

*I had my hands on one of those Defiance planes with the weird frog. I was traveling to the beach, stopped at an Antique store on the way, saw it and passed on it since I did not know what it was. I did some research, stopped by again and passed on it the second time. I believe that the issue was that it was too pricey for what it was. I don't like missing out on something and it haunted me for several months. Now that I finally got over it, here comes Bandit and I am haunted again.*

Seems the only thing haunted is my memory. I must have bought that plane on the second stop. I was reorganizing the shop and looked at the shelf that contains incomplete projects and look what I found.

Like Bandit's Defiance, it is a #3 size:



















I have been haunted by the lack of Antique/Flea market opportunities lately, so I guess I just need to rummage through the shop a bit and it will cure my "need an old tool blues".


----------



## RWE

Bandit, Devin, Corelz or anyone:

Can you paste some links about this model plane. I am prepared to accept that it is a Defiance model but i cannot find any info on the model with the unusual frog. Any help would be appreciated.

The rear tote is fairly well rounded and the Defiance planes on Don's site have regular frogs and flat sided totes.


----------



## bandit571

Read down a little further….and you will find it…
Stanley Defiance No. 1244


----------



## DevinT

I am distraught. Very upset.

Before my neighbor moved he loaned me his Veritas hand tools. All of them. The jewel of the bunch was a No 4 smoother - with a broken horn on the rear tote that just simply loved to dig into your hand and make using it unbearable after just a few minutes.

I resolved to buy a new handle to make it usable without thick leather gloves.

Veritas refused to sell me the handle because of an export ban on Bubinga.

I had a Canadian buy the handle. 3 months later, it arrives at my door (today).

It has 3 hairline fractures, one of which is large enough that it makes a sharp ledge that sits right where my forefinger rests and seriously threatens to slice my finger open whilst holding the plane.

I am so upset with Veritas.

I am seriously so very upset with Veritas right now. For so many reasons. WoodRiver is looking better and better. At least when they sent me a Bubinga handled screwdriver that came cracked, I got a new one, but not only is the replacement which they wouldn't send me worse than what I already have but I am essentially stuck owning a bunch of Veritas hand tools that in all essence cannot be serviced.

The replacement handle they sent me wasn't even tapped properly and I had to drill a hole for the underside toe screw. Friggin ridiculous.


----------



## DevinT

I performed a valuation on my neighbor's lot of Veritas hand tools and came to about $600 if the problems were fixed and about $300-$350 if not. I have the option of either holding on to them rent free, paying for them (we agreed on $300-$350 already), or giving them back, and honestly I am thinking of just getting away from Veritas altogether, and as soon as I have replacements for the things he loaned me giving them back.

It's a good thing I have cigarettes and alcohol or I might do something irrational. I hate being dragged along only to be disappointed.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Cosman uses wood river happily. I have a number 1 wood river plane I got in a lot I bought from someone but haven't used it, number 1's just aren't all that useful but it's cute.

I'm pleased with my Veritas arsenal. Sorry you're having issues.


----------



## DevinT

Well strike 1 they don't have things I need in stock. Strike 2 is things I have purchased have been delayed 4 months. Strike 3 is things they make (not things they resell) have come broken. The only Veritas tools I have were gifted. I thought they were good quality. Thought I would make them "my brand" but perhaps that needs to be someone else. Or, I could (and perhaps should have) just gone to eBay for Veritas additions and parts.


----------



## HokieKen

The supply chain is a bear right now for everyone. Hard to hold LV's feet to the fire. Lie Neilsen is having the same problem keeping stuff in stock. I ordered some carving tools a few months ago and ended up having to reach out to Ashley Iles in England directly to order them because they were back ordered at all US distributors. It still took better than a month to get them in hand. Which is better than the two Pfeil tools I ordered from Woodcraft in January and still haven't seen. Woodriver is made in China so you may have better luck there.

Can't really fault LV for the Bubinga issue either. They're just playing by the rules. The fact that your new tote is cracked is their fault though. And I'm sure their CS would rectify it post haste. Of course that would require an extra trip across the border.

Have a toke and snort and the sun will shine brighter tomorrow;-)


----------



## DavePolaschek

You could always make your own tote. I haven't needed to do that to refurb a plane, but I bookmarked the template just in case…

Hell, I even use Bench Dog planes, which are made in India. Never got too fussy about brands, as long as the tools don't completely suck.


----------



## bandit571

Upon further review….a #3 size one would be a No. 1243 Defiance. A #4 size was a No. 1244 Defiance…

Have been known to use a WR #62, from time to time. There seems to be a "Rotation" in my shop….Stanley, Sargent, Millers Falls…..repeat as needed…can throw in an Ohio Tool Co. No. 0-7, to give the Stanley No. 7c a break.

Didn't Veritas make those weird looking handles for their planes, so one would be forced to buy replacements from them….and not just slap a Stanley tote on, instead…?


----------



## DevinT

Veritas offers "Standard" (as in the Veritas standard) or "Traditional" (as in Stanley shaped) totes. Mine happens to be the standard and I have to say having tried both, I find the Veritas standard is comfy but the traditional feels more supportive.

I was just thinking I would have better luck if I just made my own tote but drilling the hole for the rod that connects the tote is a slight issue. No drill press.


----------



## DevinT

Dave, I found someone that modified the tote on their Veritas #4

So perhaps I can improve on the design in the process and make it personal instead of having to live with regret and disappointment. Still not sure how to bore ~4.5" hole for rod though without a drill press.


----------



## DevinT

If the holes I need to bore are 3/8" or greater in diameter, then I might be able to go buy these dangerously long router bits and just bore from both sides and meet in the middle. Good news is the bits are not expensive. Bad news is the bits can be dangerous as hell. Should be fine if I follow this advice though


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> No drill press. - DevinT


*No BLEEPING DRILL PRESS?*
You own a $2K+ Shaper Origin, but can not afford a drill press? Sounds like priority issue?

Don't need to spend thousands to straight/square holes in wood. HF sells table top drill press for < $100. Used they sell for $50. Can also pick up a WolfCraft Multi-Angle Drill Guide for $30 from BORG. You likely have a Festool battery powered hand drill that works with WolfCraft guide. :-(0)


----------



## DevinT

I've no place to put a drill press


----------



## DevinT

The drill guide looks nice. Would you personally recommend that one over the MilesCraft?


----------



## DevinT

I was promised that when I finish the Air Conditioner project that I can buy both a drill press and a scroll saw. Of course, once I finish that project, I will have room for the new tools, because it will clear up a huge space in the garage where all the materials for that project are currently mingling.


----------



## donwilwol

> Bandit, Devin, Corelz or anyone:
> 
> Can you paste some links about this model plane. I am prepared to accept that it is a Defiance model but i cannot find any info on the model with the unusual frog. Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> The rear tote is fairly well rounded and the Defiance planes on Don s site have regular frogs and flat sided totes.
> 
> - RWE


https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/27/stanley-defiance-line/

Scroll down.to 1243
And if you scroll to 1244 (same thing just an inch longer) you'll see links to additional pictures)


----------



## HokieKen

Devin, if you pilot your hole with your Origin (or any plunge router) to a depth of 3/4" or so, you can use a handheld drill to finish it using the piloted hole to guide it.


----------



## bandit571

Last tote I drilled…I used a #4 bit with a brace. 









And the MK II Eyeball guide…


----------



## HokieKen

If anybody is interested, there is a Millers Falls 22 on Ebay (Stanley 7 size) ending in a little under 2 hours that's sitting at a pretty low bid at the moment. If it doesn't get bid much higher, I may be forced to buy it just on principle ;-) It's a crusty fella but from the pics appears to be solid and all parts original and present. It's a type 3 so it's a wartime production with steel adjuster and knob/tote hardware and "tropical hardwood" knob and tote. A damn good candidate for anyone looking for a fixer-upper that will make a good user. Would also be a fine candidate for the Secret Santa exchange if it doesn't get bid up ;-p


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Still not sure how to bore ~4.5" hole for rod though without a drill press.


Bandit beat me to it, but I drilled a long hole in the tote of a plane for the swap with a bevel gauge set next to it to give me a sightline. Needed a 3/16" hole, so I started it with a 3/16 bit in a cordless drill, then switched to a #3 Jennings bit in my 4" sweep brace to finish it off (a 3/16 Jennings bit is not stiff enough to accurately start a hole in my experience, but will do fine if you get about an inch or so of hole started).

That was one of the few bits of my swap work this time that went right on the first try.


----------



## RWE

Thanks Bandit and Don W. for the info on the 1243. What was throwing me was the noticeable flat on the rear tote in your pictures. I re-examined mine and it also has a flat area, just smaller. I conclude that it was an earlier model in the 1940-1962 range and your pictures were of some of the 50's 60's models. It has bubbled up on the list of projects so I will post pictures after the refurb.

I did get the little Craftsman 9 1/2 equivalent put back together (estate sale find last weekend).









As long as I have been refurbing planes, chisels and such, I have been doing most of the sharpening with diamonds and an Veritas MK2 jig. For all of you folks with power sharpening systems, you have been cheating. Now I am cheating. Kind of feel dirty. I bought a 180 and a 350 CBN wheel for my 1/2 horse Rikon grinder. I added a shop made 25 degree side grind guide to the 90 degree jig sold by Woodturnerswonders.com.



















For most of the chisels and plane irons that I have done, I blunt the edge at 90 degrees, then use a side grind on the 350 wheel to creep up on the edge. No heat problems. My wheels are coated with the lubricant that woodturnerswonders sells since Ken (answered the phone one day when I called to check on my order) stated that it was good for the softer steel in chisels and plane irons as opposed to the lathe tools steel.

Once I get almost to the edge I switch over to the diamonds and the MK2 jig. Luckily my shop made guide matches up with the MK2 guide very well and it is just a matter or polishing the bevel. I never did a secondary bevel previously but started using it to finish off the edge. I think I am getting better edges now for sure.

Wider plane irons will still be done on the front of the wheel, but the little 9 1/2 iron took just minutes to reface the bevel and then sharpen. I had polished the back first of course.

My conclusion about sharpening. If I did not have the lathe tools to deal with, I would probably favor a Worksharp with a couple of CBN disks. But since I had the Wolverine setup and lathe tools, the CBN thing is real and has really changed the time it takes to get a great edge. Love it.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

That's tempting Kenny for someone wanting to give MF a shot but I guess I don't use a 7 all that often so a smaller one would be ideal. Looks like a great deal to me and it's not as crusty as I thought it would be when you said it's crusty.


----------



## HokieKen

Well, it's still sitting at the same bid Dave. So it might be coming to live with me for a while. I don't know why I need another one though…. Guess I could mount my jointer fence on it and leave it. Cause that's something I'll use a lot (rolling eyes).


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Not sure if shipping is the same for you but it's $25 for me. Would be $51 plus whatever it takes to win it. I'll watch it to the end but I have a Stanley 7 that gets used but not often. No need for another so go for it. I'm passing on that big daddy. I wouldn't mind a 5 1/2 or something equivalent. I don't know MF numbers.


----------



## corelz125

Starting with the peer pressure hmh Kenny?


----------



## DevinT

Does anyone have experience with the newly manufactured Stanley's like this one

It's got more features than my Veritas and isn't made by a company that pissed me off.


----------



## HokieKen

5-1/2 is a MF 15. There's one listed now that somebody is parting out but that's it. They aren't extremely common but they come up fairly often. Definitely one of my most used sizes.

Yell out if you're bidding Corelz so I don't bid against you. It just jumped to $41. Anything under $100 shipped is a good deal on that plane IMO.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I'll keep an eye out for a 15 Kenny. I'm not married to any brand so I'll give an MF a shot when one comes up if it's reasonable.


----------



## HokieKen

Somebody outsniped my snipe on that jointer. $47 was a steal on that thing.


----------



## rad457

> Somebody outsniped my snipe on that jointer. $47 was a steal on that thing.
> 
> - HokieKen


Not Me Saw those all too common words, may not ship to Canada!


----------



## rad457

> Does anyone have experience with the newly manufactured Stanley's like this one
> 
> It's got more features than my Veritas and isn't made by a company that pissed me off.
> 
> - DevinT


I bought the SW #62, other than the light Aluminium lever cap it was square and almost Flat, a lot better than that Craftsman
For the Veritas handles I have the Standard handle on the L.A. smoother #4 but went with the larger custom one for the 55 deg. H.A. gives me a better grip for downward pressure if that makes any sense, ended up going with a scrapper plane (Veritas) and the old faithful #81!


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Still not sure how to bore ~4.5" hole for rod though without a drill press.
> 
> Bandit beat me to it, but I drilled a long hole in the tote of a plane for the swap with a bevel gauge set next to it to give me a sightline. Needed a 3/16" hole, so I started it with a 3/16 bit in a cordless drill, then switched to a #3 Jennings bit in my 4" sweep brace to finish it off (a 3/16 Jennings bit is not stiff enough to accurately start a hole in my experience, but will do fine if you get about an inch or so of hole started).
> 
> That was one of the few bits of my swap work this time that went right on the first try.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Another vote for brace & auger. It's surprisingly easy to get the angle right.

I'd use a center bit to start the hole instead of a drill though. That might just be because I use them for pretty much everything though.


----------



## Notw

Devin, i have the sweetheart No. 62 in the newer version. no complaints, came flat and square.


----------



## HokieKen

Seems like the majority of chatter on the modern Stanleys revolves around inconsistencies in QA. Never had one personally though. I would be sure that I purchased it from somewhere that it would be easy to exchange it if necessary if I were buying one I think.


----------



## DevinT

I am very interested in their take on the Norris adjuster. They added a knob to lock the lateral. I can't find much on this modification.

NotW, how do you like the lateral locking mechanism?


----------



## donwilwol

> Seems like the majority of chatter on the modern Stanleys revolves around inconsistencies in QA. Never had one personally though. I would be sure that I purchased it from somewhere that it would be easy to exchange it if necessary if I were buying one I think.
> 
> - HokieKen


I've heard the same chatter. If you get a good one, great. If you get a bad one, call and they send a new one. I've heard a couple times it took 2 or 3 tries to finally get a good one, but they ended up with a good one in the end.


----------



## DevinT

Here is the new knob that I am curious about …


----------



## HokieKen

Paul Sellers wasn't impressed with the modern Stanley planes.


----------



## HokieKen

I guess the first question that comes to my mind about the lateral lock screw is why? I've never seen another plane, Bailey pattern or Norris style or any other, that needed one. In fact, pre-lateral planes didn't even have an adjuster much less a lock. So I figure it's one of two things: (1) there's something sloppy about the blade retention that requires it or (2) it's an unnecessary feature that either gave them something to patent or allowed them to skirt an existing patent.


----------



## DevinT

I was thinking that it was Stanley's answer to the issue of adjusting depth affecting lateral.

Ken, thanks for the Sellars's review link. Looks like it's a dud.


----------



## HokieKen

That's a good thought Devin. I hadn't considered that. However, unless the adjuster is aligned with the blade, adjusting the depth will still cause the adjuster to move laterally to some extent. So, I think adjusting the depth will still cause some change in the lateral position.


----------



## DevinT

That's my understanding as well.


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## Notw

I don't have any experience with the No. 4 they sell but here is what it looks like on the No 62. there is not a lot of skew adjustment maybe a few degrees left and right. The only thing about this plane that annoys me is the front knob is internally threaded and i can't figure out how to get it apart, so the knob and handles on this plane are light and the rest of my planes are either rosewood or walnut so it bothers my OCD.


----------



## corelz125

I put a bid or 2 Kenny but didn't go to the end.


----------



## adot45

The little discussion about the Defiance planes kinda rang a bell with me so I dug up a couple of planes that I bought just to have for anyone wanting to make a scrub plane but now am wondering if they could possibly be Defiance planes? There is only Made in USA on the bases and on the irons but no number like Bandit showed. Mine are both the same size, same lever caps, same irons, etc. They are out in the shop but I think they are 9 to 9 3/8" long. Here are some pictures. I suppose they can just be clones but IDK.


----------



## 33706

*Not to change the subject, but here is a couple of pics of my latest Stanley Liberty Bell #104*:



















And now.. the rest of the story:

I've owned this plane for about a year, an Ebay find, but missing three critical parts. The lever cap was missing, the cutter was missing, and that 'nib' was missing.

*Dan K* stepped up and was willing to make this confounded little part. It is unique to the Liberty Bell series, and it bolts to the cutter/chipper assembly and engages with the cutter height lever. It was discussed here a million posts ago. I don't even know the name of this part, but Dan was gracious enough to barter something I had in exchange for ten of the little buggers from his machine shop.

*Hokie Ken* expressed an interest in finding an articulated fence for his #45, so I rummaged through my spares and found him a good one, asking whether he consider a fence in trade for machining a Liberty Bell lever cap, which took me almost a year to find. It was from a #127 trannie Liberty but I thought it would work. It didn't. Kenny machined off 3/4" from the toe and I just received it in the mail. It fits like a glove!

All to say once again what we all know here: A great bunch of people willing to help one another. It's great to add another complete #104 to the stable, and this one is special to me because it was made with the collaboration of some talented, generous people. It will go in queue for restoration now.


----------



## HokieKen

Glad it worked out PK ). Unfortunately shop time is sparse of late so I haven't used my 45 since getting the fence but I have definitely put it on and played with it some. I do believe the microadjust will knock down the aggravation level of setting that sucker up significantly.

If you ask me, I definitely got the winning end on that deal ;-)


----------



## corelz125

Those are Defiance planes Adot. the one on the bottom with the red tote might of had Defiance on the tote


----------



## adot45

Wow, thank you corelz125 that's really nice news! I looked for the name on that tote but i'll take another look tomorrow. Thanks again. Dave


----------



## RWE

Speaking of Defiance planes. I started working on the one I had forgotten that I bought a few years ago.

I thought that I would show this jig to hold sanding belts tightly to aid in flattening things. Not sure where I got the idea, may have been a Popular Woodworking article a few years back. Essentially you get MDF and laminate two boards. You bisect a large round bit of stock and glue one of the sections to the end of the laminate. You make two wedges and use them to tighten the second section and stretch the sandpaper.



















The little Defiance is hollow in the back middle. Both sides are flush. Devin is in my consciousness as I work on this little fellow and I actually bought some PSA paper to put on my stone slab, just have not gotten to that point yet.










All of that is so I could ask this question, *Ken* or others, what is the reality about the plane flexing under the pressure of having the iron placed and being under tension?


> ?


I just did a 9 1/2 block plane, this is a #3 equivalent size Defiance. It seems to me that both of those planes based on their size would not have enough flex to be of any practical concern. A #4 seems to be the tipping point where it might matter, but I am not sure. Then from a Jack up it seems to be something to consider.

Size does matter!!!!!! Is there enough flex in these smaller models to actually matter???


----------



## HokieKen

I convinced myself several years ago that it was necessary to have the iron in and tensioned when flattening the sole RWE. I've failed to convince many others of the same but it's my story and I'm sticking to it ;-)

If the blade flexes the sole, it's most likely because the frog is not properly mated to the sole. And it's unlikely you'd see it on a #3 or a block plane in any case.

All that said though, I see no advantage to lapping without the iron installed and no disadvantage to lapping with it installed. So I always install it.


----------



## DevinT

In my opinion, flex is a myth. There is some evidence to help you sleep at night. In my personal experience nothing you do in the lapping process will effect the outcome more than simply where you apply pressure and how evenly you apply it. Though the rate of change is so slow that to screw up you have to be repeatedly applying offset or uneven pressure. Also, you can lap a sole with no pressure other than gravity if you like, it you are ham-fisted, or just have no upper body strength. That actually gets a very even finish but will take about 4x longer.


----------



## DevinT

I will say the same as Ken. No advantage one way or another, but I will add something that might sway your decision. When I lap, I avoid using the handles at all costs. There is carbon black and other spot you don't want transferring but above all else, you don't want to impart a wear pattern from the repeated abnormal use (opposed to a wear pattern imparted by planing). So it, like me, you have nice new handles you want to keep perfect you may strip all the hardware. It does make it a little easier in some ways and harder in others. My favorite way to lap is with everything stripped but the frog so I have a little more metal to grip.


----------



## DevinT

I use heavy leather gloves in the process to keep the oils from my hands transferring to the freshly ground metal causing flash rust


----------



## HokieKen

And in direct contradiction, I lap using the handles and applying pressure the same way I do when planing. Cause that's my use-case so that's how I do it.


----------



## HokieKen

> I will say the same as Ken. No advantage one way or another, ...
> 
> - DevinT


Not exactly what I said but a valid POV ;-)


----------



## RWE

Well I always break down the plane, clean it, evaporust etc. In the case of the Defiance, I plan to Japan the body. I don't want to take a refurbed plane and get that mess all over it.

Of course, I can reassemble it before I do the Japanning, lap it etc. but I was just wondering about the *"practical"* value of even worrying about stress on such a small plane. Seems to be chasing an "ideal" and not of practical consequence.

I respect your opinion Kenny, but I think I will establish my boundary at smoother and up before I worry about putting the iron back in.


----------



## sansoo22

I've lapped a plane or two in my day. With a typical Bailey pattern I will often leave the frog in when I lap. The only place I've ever been convinced of flexing under pressure is if the frog seats unevenly where it meets the mouth of the plane. If you plan to lap the frog as well then by all means take it out.

Ken has a really good write up about "dye printing" the frog bits to ensure a good solid fit. This has become part of my restoration workflow now.

I'm one of the ham fisted jerks so I typically use low grit paper and let gravity do the work for me. Unless you get a plane with a bow or twist. Then you have to use a bit of pressure to even that out before letting gravity give it that nice super smooth surface.


----------



## RWE

Ken or Sansoo, can you link the "dye printing" write up. Not sure what that is, but enquiring minds want to know.

Devin's "some evidence" link gets back to my "practical" value point. Not sure about his testing methodology, but it backs my supposition about "maybe not that necessary".


----------



## sansoo22

> Ken or Sansoo, can you link the "dye printing" write up. Not sure what that is, but enquiring minds want to know.
> 
> - RWE


https://www.lumberjocks.com/HokieKen/blog/97098

That's the link I was referring to. It may be outside of "practical" value. I am fully aware many of the things I do with my planes is outside of that.


----------



## RWE

Thank you Sansoo. My respect for Mr. Hokie is increased.

The thought occurs to me that I might be well served to go back through my "users" and revisit them with a goal of improving them. I have filed frogs before, but never as methodically as the blog suggests, just tried to clean any burrs and machine marks.

I think a better idea would be to ship them to Ken, but I might be waiting too long to get them back. He will be chasing hares again soon I am sure.


----------



## sansoo22

I don't do all of them as well as Ken does in his blog post. Then again all of my users seem to keep getting older. I think most of them are type 9s thru 11s now and the machining seems a bit more precise. Then there is the occasional Marsh in the till that had a better frog design and higher quality machining in general…in my humble opinion at least.

I have had a few type 16s or maybe they were 18s that liked to chatter no matter what I did. So I finally broke down and went full Hookie Ken methodical on the frog and that solved the problem entirely.


----------



## HokieKen

In all seriousness, the flex when the blade is installed is probably a non-issue. In theory, it could cause a slight change in the shape of the sole. But that's in theory, not in practice. It's fairly easy to quantify on a case-by-case basis though. Just lap first, install the blade (fully retracted and fully tensioned) then put some marks on the sole and give it a couple of strokes on the sandpaper you used for your final lapping. If there is a significant amount of sharpie left in any area, then you'll know installing the blade flexed the sole. Then you can sing my praises for the remainder of your days ;-)

The frog on the other hand is a much more significant factor. And I say that with the full conviction of theoretical possibility AND practical experience. I have had at least one plane change shape significantly after lapping when the frog was installed. That was precisely when I decided to be more methodical about the mechanical aspects of refurbishing old planes.

In my opinion, the two things that must absolutely be done properly and without compromise are making a perfect fit of the frog to the base and having a perfect, knife-edge fit of the chipbreaker to the blade (speaking of BD bench planes obviously). I suppose a close third would be lapping the sole to at least "mostly" flat but I also think there is a very direct relationship between that and fitting the frog to the base.

I am religious about dye printing the frog/base mating surfaces on every plane I get. And if you read the blog post that Sansoo linked, you'll see the details. However, it's not strictly necessary to use dye most of the time. For me, it's easier but maybe not for everyone… You can simply see if the frog "rocks" by putting pressure over the mating points with your fingers and then filing down the high spots. The only time printing provides better feedback is if all the mating pads have contact but not across the full width. So, in the case that the base may have become cupped over the years, the frog may seat solidly but only at the front of the front pads and the rear of the back pad. So now when you install the screws and tighten it, the screws pull some of the cup out of the base and voila, the sole has changed shape. If you lapped before installing the frog, now your sole isn't flat any more.

I'll hop off my soapbox now ;-) In summary though, whether or not the blade is installed when you lap probably isn't a big deal but you can easily verify by a quick check after you install the blade. However, I strongly urge you to spend significant time making sure the frog is fit as perfectly as possible to the base and lapping with the frog installed is a very good idea if not absolutely mandatory. At least in my most humble of opinions ;-)

There is a bit of good news though! It rarely requires much work for me to get a frog perfectly seated on the base with vintage planes. In fact, the one I used in the blog post Sansoo linked is the worst case I've came across with any plane I've had. Most often a quick file across the pads to remove corrosion and burrs is all that's required. At least on Millers Falls. I have done a handful of Stanleys though and they didn't require any heroic methods either. The plane in that blog series I did was actually poorly done all the way around. That was when I drew a hard line at type 3 as the newest MF plane I would own. Type 4s might be okay but I don't like the adjuster nuts (purely cosmetic) but that jointer from the blog post turned me off completely to Type 5s. It turned into a good user but it took way too much effort…


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> I think a better idea would be to ship them to Ken, but I might be waiting too long to get them back. He will be chasing hares again soon I am sure.
> 
> - RWE


FWIW, anyone who does run across a really troublesome frog fit and can't get it done by filing/scraping/sanding is welcome to reach out. I've never had to do it but I do have the capability to re-machine the mating surfaces of the frog and base in worst-case scenarios. Don't expect a speedy return at the present time but the option is there if you have a plane you feel is worth the effort. Handyman/Defiance/MF Vline are excluded from this offer ;-p


----------



## RWE

Well I claim an exemption on the Defiance, can't remove the frog. LOL

I will circle around to my users and check the frogs again. Most are Bedrocks or Keen Kutter Round rocks, with various early Stanleys mixed in. Most of the Stanley planes are the earlier types and hopefully have better machining as mentioned by Sansoo.

Thanks for a good discussion. I will go through the blog.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Sweet!!

Going to send you a handful of things to mill for me Kenny thanks!

On a side note, I agree with Kenny's very long winded assessment. I also think flattening with iron in makes more sense. Even if it doesn't flex wouldn't you want it registering the way it's used? Hell, even holding the handles means it's going to be flat the exact way you use it so that's even better IMO. Just a thought, I didn't have any sugar in my Cheerios so my post isn't as winded.


----------



## Lazyman

BTW, If you send locally brewed IPAs with whatever you send Kenny for milling, you'll get priority attention-the first priority being drinking the beers of course.


----------



## HokieKen

Also, if you DON'T send beer with whatever you need milled, I'll have to do it sober. I'm not sure how that would go, never tried it.


----------



## controlfreak

Flattening without your tongue protruding past your lower lip on the right side will also cause uneven results.

IPA's, there not just for breakfast anymore!


----------



## bandit571

Ve haft werk…..









Except..when a saw plate is too wide for the vise….









Vise is high enough to just fit under my armpit…









First pass is done….5-1/2ppi










Have this one waiting it's turn….planes are put away, for now…


----------



## ac0rn

I agree with Ken's procedure. When lapping, the plane is fully assembled, blade retracted.


----------



## bandit571

Have done lapping all 3 ways….assembled, blade retracted…..Handles installed, hold like a plane…..Just the base…have not seen any difference between the 3 ways…but…..I tend to move the belt, rather than the plane..

Just depends on how much of a hurry I'm in….same results. 









YMMV..


----------



## rad457

My Two cents starting out with Wood planes (Krenov) was taught "always fully assembled, iron retracted!
Got too say, flatten a wood Plane A LOT EASIER! Unless you are working on a Coopering Plane?


----------



## donwilwol

for metalic planes it depends on the frog style. If the front leg sits on the mouth and the screws put pressure there, it's probably best to have it assembled. If the style of frog doesn't put pressure there then it doesn't matter.


----------



## donwilwol

for metalic planes it depends on the frog style. If the front leg sits on the mouth and the screws put pressure there, it's probably best to have it assembled. If the style of frog doesn't put pressure there then it doesn't matter.


----------



## RWE

From Don W.'s comments, I would assume that a Bedrock should just be checked to see that the flog sits flat (per Hokie and the dye printing test) but with the way that frog is fastened, it probably should be ok to lap disassembled.

All of this discussion is making me feel guilty so I will just probably reassemble my planes to lap. That way I can sleep at night. LOL


----------



## KelleyCrafts

That's what I was saying RWE, if it makes a difference or not then I figure it's just best to do assembled the way you use it. Then if it actually matters, it's flat the way you use it and all is good. If it doesn't matter then no harm done.


----------



## DevinT

However, if you don't do it both ways you'll never really know. Personally, I have to know, so I took that Stanley No 8 (YMMV with others) and lapped it every which way I possibly could to test for differences. It didn't matter. I could do 500 strokes assembled and compare it to 500 strokes disassembled and there was no discernible difference in wear pattern. I did over 30,000 strokes on the sole trying to find a difference. Nothing.

So to test the theory further, I pulled out my Veritas No 4. Same thing. Assembled, disassembled, no difference.

Over a period of 18 days performing 30k passes on the sole and another 8k passes on the sides to square them up to the sole, I can tell you that even pushing down with all my might, concertedly trying to flex the sole to cause a change in the wear pattern, it was impossible with the Stanley No 8.

I also tried putting *ALL* of my weight on the Veritas, same thing. Can't flex the sole.

How do I know? Both planes had a hollow in front and behind the mouths. The Stanley was hollow underneath the tote and knob. I put all of my weight on the handle and knob and performed 250 passes and still couldn't get the hollow to flex to a point that I could abrade the hollow.

Maybe because I'm a woman I just can't do it. However, I highly doubt that anyone can flex a plane sole on a metal bodied plane.


----------



## controlfreak

Now I can't get that song out of my head "Lap Lap Lap they call him the Lapper"


----------



## RWE

Ok, thanks Devin. Just when I made my mind up, I need to change it again. LOL

My reason for not reassembling was that I generally soak the plane body in Evaporust. After that, I like to do the messy lapping thing, then strip the old japan if necessary and at that point paint and reassemble. Ken made the point about lapping after painting to clear any bleed through areas with paint on the sole, but that could be touch up lapping.

I hereby resolve to be a "frog" man. I will embrace the frog and dye it and then I can sleep at night. Maybe.


----------



## HokieKen

Take a U-shaped piece of steel that rests fore and aft of the frog location then use two screws to fasten it to the frog mounting holes. Then tighten the screws. Male or female, you can flex that sucker. So with an ill-fit frog that is cupped, you have the same effect.

And trust me, you can flex that #8 sole ;-) You just can't quantify it by looking at wear patterns off sandpaper. Fix the ends in two vises and put a dial indicator in the center and start pushing. You'll see that the iron moves with much less force than you would expect.

Again though, I'll reiterate, this is very much on a case-by-case basis. The vast majority of planes, won't be afflicted with induced deformations from a poorly fit frog. As Don said, it also depends to some extent on the style of frog. My personal conclusion is that there may be an advantage to putting it together before flattening but there is no possible disadvantage (at least not that I can think of…).


----------



## HokieKen

And just what hell kind of lapping are you people doing that is so messy??? ;-) Personally, I can't imagine anything that I would use that would cause me to have to repaint or de-rust the plane again after flattening. The majority of the time, flattening the sole is the last thing I do to a plane.


----------



## DevinT

I'm with Ken on this one. Lapping is not messy (for me). The iron that gets abraded stays on the sandpaper.

Now, if you go rubbing your face and hands all over the sandpaper instead of taking your shop vac and vacuuming up those particles, I could see it getting messy. For me, I just do some passes, run the shop vac over the paper, and go back to doing more passes. It's totally not messy. I also wipe down the sandpaper occasionally with a prostick to remove anything the vacuum can't pick up.

Also, from what little tiny amount of particles do transfer, a little mineral spirits pick those right up if they don't just brush off with your hand.


----------



## RWE

I have an idea Hokie. You send me your sand blasting cabinet and I will fully embrace the technique of reassembling the plane before lapping.

Hate to do this, but what do Lumberjocks do to clear old japan if they don't have a blasting cabinet? I always used paint stripper but am reluctant to admit it since it is probably wrong. LOL

I know that if I do that, I have to clean it in a hurry and get it painted to prevent flash rust.


----------



## HokieKen

I only rub my face on the sandpaper when I run out of blades for my razor.


----------



## RWE

Maybe I was wrong about the messiness, but I was doing the block plane and the number 3 sized plane on diamond plates with Simple Green. it does get messy with that. I also used the jig with belt sander paper and simple green, that was messy as well.


----------



## HokieKen

Actually RWE, I typically just use wire brushes and a wire wheel on the bench grinder then finish with picks and handheld brushes. It takes a little longer than sandblasting but I have to lug it to work and find time to go use the blaster when I go that route and it's just more trouble than it's worth. Plus, blasted iron rusts if you look at it funny.

And if stripper speeds up the process, I won't hesitate to use it!


----------



## DevinT

RWE, in my experience flash rust is only a problem if you are not wearing gloves.

Once the iron becomes "naked" and "fresh" any kind of brush with naked skin will start the chain reaction. So, ... don't let skin touch it after you've got abraded and stripped it.

I've left unfinished metal sit for days in the shop without flash rust developing so-long as I am ultra careful not to let my skin contact it. If you do brush up against it, wipe it immediately.

I think knowing this could help save you from rushing like mad to cover the steel after you've stripped it. I don't exactly live in a desert either-Northern California is quite humid, especially since I live less than 1 mile from the coast-line. I am convinced that the salt in our hands is far more a contributor to flash rust than the air around us-unless you are basically on a boat getting sprayed by salt water.

I'd say stripping is fine. Just strip it and throw some primer on it, then paint it. 2 coats of primer and 3 coats of paint ought to look real nice.


----------



## bandit571

One other thing that tends to set me off…..use of feeler gauges…

Yes, I do have a set..









And, they were my Dad's…however, this stays in the drawer, with the rest of the Ignition Tools….









And a few other useless items…

When was the last time you had to "set the points"......


----------



## corelz125

Maybe we should start lapping before the initial cleaning and tuning. The iron dust does get all over the plane when I lap it. That's usually the last step I take also get everything clean, sharp and oiled put it back together and lap away. The vacuum gets a lot of the dust but some still gets stuck in the places on the base.


----------



## sansoo22

RWE - I use Klean Strip on anything I'm removing the old finish on. I try not to get it on the unfinished metal but it happens and things rust a tad. After Klean Strip has done its thing I wash them thoroughly with soap, water and a wire brush. From there its picks, small cup brushes in the cordless, or handheld wire brushes to get the rest of the finish.

Depending on the season here in KCMO they can flash rust just by looking at it sideways. Nothing I can do about that so I worked it into my process. After the body is stripped of old finish I do the bulk of my lapping. That black dust never stays in the sand paper for me and gets freaking everywhere. So the plane is going to need cleaned again before paint anyway. So once lapping is done its back to soap and water. The last step is nitrite gloves and an acetone bath before taping and paint.

The acetone bath has prevented anything from flash rusting and gives me ample time to do a good tape job before paint. The only "lapping" after paint is the higher 220 thru 400 grits to make it all shiny. Those grits leave very little dust behind.


----------



## BenDupre

> When was the last time you had to "set the points"......
> 
> - bandit571


You don't lash your valve rockers Bandit?


----------



## RWE

Good info Sansoo. I will try the acetone on the next one. I think the brand of paint stripper I use is Klean Strip as well.


----------



## sansoo22

> Good info Sansoo. I will try the acetone on the next one. I think the brand of paint stripper I use is Klean Strip as well.
> 
> - RWE


I forgot to mention I also wear gloves when taping. It sucks and i still havent got the hang of that but like DevinT said you really dont want to touch bare cast iron with your bare hands.


----------



## DevinT

Sansoo, are you using stearated sandpaper? Regarding whether the dust gets everywhere vs staying in the sandpaper.


----------



## HokieKen

I make a mess when flattening too but I grab a paper towel and an air gun and the plane is clean again in seconds.

There's no arguing that Sansoo's planes come out making mine look like a turd though so my advice would be to follow his advice. I'm actually flattening my MF24 before doing any of the cosmetic stuff (not intentionally, I just had another plane to flatten so did this one while I had the stuff out) so I'll see if it makes any noticable difference for me on this go-round.


----------



## bandit571

Normal day in the rehab shop..









I keep a cheap, 2" wide paint brush, with some 3in1 oil, nearby….bare iron gets a swab with the oily brush….then all gets a wipe down when done…









Keeps the rusty fingerprints at bay….


----------



## sansoo22

> Sansoo, are you using stearated sandpaper? Regarding whether the dust gets everywhere vs staying in the sandpaper.
> 
> - DevinT


I restore more planes than any one person should so for sand paper I buy whatever reputable brand I can find in bulk at a fair price. I try to stick with aluminum oxide because I'm used to its characteristics at this point. Last October and November combined I think I restored around 18 planes total. My hands, face, apron, clothes, and bench looked like the pic Bandit posted.

I ended up mounting a hook for the shop vac hose on my bench and adding foot pedal as the on/off switch. After each grit do a quick vacuum and move on to the next.

Thank goodness I have a bathroom in my shop or the boss lady would make me live out there for washing my hands in the kitchen sink. I already get in trouble for baking planes in the oven so I don't need to get lectured about washing my hands in the kitchen.


----------



## DevinT

I too have my vacuum on a hook, but I don't have a foot on/off pedal. That would be nice. Sounds very handy, as does the sink/bathroom in the shop.


----------



## ac0rn

Points and a dwell meter. So the foot pedal then is for turning on your high beams.


----------



## sansoo22

Since I haven't posted a pic here in quite a while here is the current crop of planes ready to hit the restore bench.









There are a handful of type 9 thru type 11 bailey's that will most likely get promoted to personal users. Another garage sale Bedrock find. A Miller Falls so Ken has a reason to keep tuning in. And an Ohio 5-1/2 that i also found at a garage sale of all places. I can't wait to get that one done to try it out. The iron on that thing is THICK.

I wish that was all of them but I know of at least 8 that aren't in the current queue and probably at least that many more I simply forgot where I put them.

Some day I may admit to having a problem but thankfully today is not that day.


----------



## corelz125

I admit I have a problem but it's not going to change


----------



## Lazyman

BTW, I really like Pinerite hand cleaner when my hands get really grubby, especially when restoring tools and other metal work. What's better for a woodworker than one that uses sawdust as the abrasive. So far, I haven't found anything it would not clean off and I never feel like I've used a solvent to wash my hands.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

You get a new job Nathan?

Ambassador Nathan I should say.

Kidding, never heard of the stuff.


----------



## corelz125

I go to the old faithful gojo. Gets the grime right off.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, gojo is the bizness.

Have y'all tried a barrier lotion for when you're working on planes and such? I don't use it anymore but I used it a lot when I machined cast iron for a living. It's basically a lotion that dries as a thin film on your skin. Kinda like wearing really thin nitrile gloves with no loss of tactile feedback. Might want to check into it if you don't like having man-hands.


----------



## HokieKen

When you get that Millers Falls done and take the first shaving, you'll just dump all that other crap in the trash can Sansoo.

;-)


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I put lotion on before working on any car stuff Kenny. Just regular lotion and it helps a lot. Gojo otherwise.


----------



## Lazyman

A job? What's that? Happily and voluntarily unemployed for 7 years now. How time flies…

I used to use Gojo too. I like the Pinerite better. A buddy whose hobby is restoring old cars sent me some and I've never looked back. The pumice in the consumer version of Gojo is just too fine, IMO, and it sometimes takes multiple applications with a really oily grime. The original Gojo SDS is actually a little scary. It actually recommends wearing eye protection while you use it and instructs to wash your hands in case of skin contact. Huh?


----------



## bandit571

Just plain, old Ivory Liquid, and hot water….


----------



## rad457

Look what showed up in the mail today, the ugly one on the right came with the plane, guess time to clean and test out that #46! Thanks Kenny! Still got too figure out how to Flatten it


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Some nice blades Andre!


----------



## corelz125

I have a tube of that stuff Kenny. A long time ago I took a print making class and used it there. I forget about it most of the time. That stuff worked well just rub it on and wash it off.


----------



## DevinT

Damnit! I was going to buy this plane for the secret Santa and I just spaced on the auction, and nobody bid on it. Crap!


----------



## MikeB_UK

Bit harsh sending someone a Shelton, Devin.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Talking of cheap and dodgy planes.

I knew Aldi did chisels, but didn't know they'd had a go at planes.

Found this on ebay for £8 and figured, why not.

Even came with an instruction manual, iron still had the (fairly rough) factory grind on it.









Solid beech body with, surprisingly tight mouth and the iron was fairly flat to begin with.









After flattening and sharpening the iron it worked well as a smoother, left a nice finish.









Worse thing about it is the screw on the chipbreaker, tightening it moves the chipbreaker forward about 1/8th of an inch, simple enough to account for, but annoying.

The grip has some sharp angles that'll need taking off and the horn needs a bit of a re-shape, but all-in-all not too bad.


----------



## DevinT

Oh, are Shelton's no good?

I thought it looked cool. Like what hand planes from Gotham City would look like.


----------



## HokieKen

Sheltons as a whole seem to be "bargain" planes Devin. And "auto-set" type planes as a whole aren't that well regarded either. So you can use the previous two statements to extrapolate general opinion on Shelton auto-set planes ;-)

For the record, I have never owned a Shelton or an auto-set of any kind so I'm not passing judgement based on experience. It's just hearsay.


----------



## HokieKen

Interesting Mike, I didn't know Aldi made planes either. The issue with setting the chipbreaker is one I run into often when trying to set the 'breaker on a smoother. If there is a lot of spring in the 'breaker, tightening the screw expands the length so it may take a try or five to get it just right. That's one thing I like about some modern blade sets - the "spring" is machined in and deformation when it's tightened is minimal.

If you don't mind me asking, how much was that plane at Aldi? In real money. Don't make me convert that British crap ;-)


----------



## DevinT

So if Shelton is not a good bargain plane for a $40 capped secret Santa, what else would folks want?

I have been avoiding:

Block planes (I would like Santa to send a bench plane)
Handyman
V-line
Pexto
Testa
Fulton
Corsair
ACE
Buck Bros
Dunlap
POWR-KRAFT
Windsor-style
Unlabeled
AmazonBasics


----------



## 33706

I kinda like Sheltons. The blade height adjustment patent more closely resembles a Norris-style adjuster than the poorly conceived Stanley design which uses a yoke that swings in an arc at the point of engagement.

Just my opinion.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Don't make me convert that British crap ;-)


Just double it and add 30, Kenny.

Mike, was that actually made by Aldi (pretty sure they don't actually make anything) or is it an ECE with "Aldi" stamped onto it? Seems to me like you got a bargain, in any case.


----------



## DevinT

poopiekat, very nice. Also, exactly what I imagine Bruce Wayne's hand plane collection to look like, sitting in his bat cave


----------



## DevinT

When you say Aldi, are we talkin about the grocery store?


----------



## DavePolaschek

> So if Shelton is not a good bargain plane for a $40 capped secret Santa, what else would folks want?


Devin, I think a Shelton would be a fine plane for the Secret Santa, as long as it's been fettled to work as well as it can.

Once I get past the difficulties I'm having with my swap plane, I'm planning to play with the Gage "auto-set" mechanism. Seems interesting to me, and the Gage wooden planes have the interesting property of having all the metal bits encapsulated in a single package, which means that replacing a beat-up wooden body with something new looks to be relatively straightforward.

As Kenny explained it to me, a cleaned-up and fettled Shelton sounds perfect for the Secret Santa. As does Mike's Aldiif it can be made to work. If I didn't still have a stash of Stanley Global planes bought cheap from Canada when the exchange rate got funny, I'd be looking at them for a possible donor.


----------



## sansoo22

I'd be excited to get a Shelton. I've never used one and I'm intrigued by the adjuster on it. Like many here I have no real need for another plane so secret santa is an exciting opportunity to get something different than what I'm used to. I don't even need it fettled and/or usable. Complete with all its parts and rusty as a boat anchor suits me just fine. Part of the fun is figuring out how it works and imagining the beauty hidden under all the rust and gunk.


----------



## HokieKen

> So if Shelton is not a good bargain plane for a $40 capped secret Santa, what else would folks want?
> 
> I have been avoiding:
> 
> Block planes (I would like Santa to send a bench plane)
> Handyman
> V-line
> Pexto
> Testa
> Fulton
> Corsair
> ACE
> Buck Bros
> Dunlap
> POWR-KRAFT
> Windsor-style
> Unlabeled
> AmazonBasics
> 
> - DevinT


Sorry Devin, I didn't mean to say that a Shelton wasn't okay for the swap. Of course it is. We aren't gonna be swapping Spiers around with a $40 spending cap ;-)

The idea behind the conception of the Secret Santa swap was to send the "coolest" plane you can under the spending cap. So, there are no real restrictions on what you can or can't send aside from the spending cap and the requirement that it be "functional" as sent.

I wouldn't rule block planes out at all and I certainly wouldn't limit the scope to just bench planes. There are all kinds of other planes out there ;-)


----------



## RWE

Devin:
I am not a collector, but, I have a few hand planes. I don't have an old Shelton with the auto-set. I had my hands on a Gage one time but the folks here said that it was overpriced and not worth getting at the asking price. However, I distinguish between planes that are historically or because of features, interesting and those that I use. So the Shelton would be interesting and could be inserted into the line up of deplorables and just admired. When the Zombie apocalypse comes and all the planes have been stolen from my workshop, I can start using the deplorables.

Often the listing will come back on Ebay, so watch for it. I agree, that Santa should send a bench plane, but he could send an interesting deplorable as well.


----------



## DevinT

Re: block planes

Hate everything about them. Only met one block plane I ever liked. The Veritas Apron Plane (which may be debatably not a block plane). Beautiful and super duper functional. I used it on some pine end-grain yesterday. Other than that though, I find block planes to be hideous and shameful.


----------



## corelz125

I'll accept a b plane block plane or a sargent auto set with open arms. For £8 a little work isn't bad.


----------



## DevinT

I wish like hell that this B plane was under the $40 cap.

NOTE, look at the blade. It's an actual B plane


----------



## rad457

Bought the Craftsman only because of the Colour  As far as Block planes, the Veritas apron is great because of the PMV-11 iron but my favorite by far is my Brass LN 102 with a Hock iron! Just feels "right" in your hand!


----------



## HokieKen

> Re: block planes
> 
> Hate everything about them. Only met one block plane I ever liked. The Veritas Apron Plane (which may be debatably not a block plane). Beautiful and super duper functional. I used it on some pine end-grain yesterday. Other than that though, I find block planes to be hideous and shameful.
> 
> - DevinT


Wow, that makes me sad for you :-( I love block planes in all shapes and sizes. Honestly, I don't know how one would work without them!


----------



## HokieKen

> I wish like hell that this B plane was under the $40 cap.
> 
> NOTE, look at the blade. It's an actual B plane
> 
> - DevinT


It is under the cap at present. Shipping is excluded from the spending limit.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Interesting Mike, I didn t know Aldi made planes either. The issue with setting the chipbreaker is one I run into often when trying to set the breaker on a smoother. If there is a lot of spring in the breaker, tightening the screw expands the length so it may take a try or five to get it just right. That s one thing I like about some modern blade sets - the "spring" is machined in and deformation when it s tightened is minimal.
> 
> If you don t mind me asking, how much was that plane at Aldi? In real money. Don t make me convert that British crap ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


In your money Kenny
8×24 oz Walmart Great Value Enriched Quick Grits
Or about $11

I believe it depends on which bit of the United States of Canadia you are from as to which you use ;-)


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Going to have to agree on the block plane argument. Can't even think of working without a couple. I have a Veritas standard block plane which is nice but the skewed rabbit block from LV is exceptional. Use that for all sorts of stuff, a small rabbit on the pin board? No problem! Clean a shoulder? Ok standard block plane duty? Of course!

Can't beat it if you only have one.


----------



## DevinT

> I wish like hell that this B plane was under the $40 cap.
> 
> NOTE, look at the blade. It's an actual B plane
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> It is under the cap at present. Shipping is excluded from the spending limit.
> 
> - HokieKen


What?! I was under the impression shipping and tax were to be considered in the cap.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Mike, was that actually made by Aldi (pretty sure they don't actually make anything) or is it an ECE with "Aldi" stamped onto it? Seems to me like you got a bargain, in any case.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Definately not an ECE 
Yeah Aldi get someone else to make their stuff (No one famous AFAIK), most of it is fairly good.



> When you say Aldi, are we talkin about the grocery store?
> 
> - DevinT


Yes, over here they have a couple of isles in the middle with some fairly random stuff in.
Go in for some ham, come out with a chainsaw and a dog bed, it's a strange place


----------



## DevinT

Oh, I've been to Aldi's. I have family in Kentucky.


----------



## theoldfart

Devin, give a Stanley 140 skew block plane a try. The you'll change your mind about block planes.


----------



## bandit571

Red frog…..Fulton….#3 size….York pitch frog…









Just looking back at a few that went through the shop…









This one is still in the shop….









As is this plough plane…









This block plane gets a lot of use in the shop..


















Stanley No. 5-1/2, T-17









Sorry..I had to strip off the black paint on the handles….









Avoid either of these….Windsor #33 or the Stanley SB4….









But…IF you happen upon a No. 56B….grab it!
The Jury is still out, on this one..









For some reason, it hates to work on Ash….









Come around this coming Labor Day Weekend….and you might just find something….


----------



## HokieKen

You mean a Millers Falls 07 Kev? ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

I have a couple of sets of Aldi chisels. They were definitely worth the $6 or whatever I spent for them. Had them for several years and they still come out when I need to really wail on something. I also bought some quick clamps they had about the same time. The clamps were utter crap. Ya never know!


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Oh, are Shelton's no good?
> 
> I thought it looked cool. Like what hand planes from Gotham City would look like.
> 
> - DevinT


I think the iron is probably the weakest point with them, very thin.









Although the one piece lever cap, depth & lateral adjuster is kinda cool.
You need to remember to slacken off the tension before adjusting the blade though.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> What?! I was under the impression shipping and tax were to be considered in the cap.
> 
> - DevinT


Nope. Here are the rules. Shipping when you buy it and shipping to your recipient do not have to be considered in the spending limit. I didn't address it specifically but we'll exclude taxes as well.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Of you included shipping then the budget would be $20. If you included taxes it would be $2 for Devin in CA.


----------



## DevinT

That really opens up possibilities. Especially considering the 9.5% tax where I live.


----------



## adot45

I kinda like block planes…and the little fellas too.


----------



## HokieKen

Looks like you have room for one more too adot!


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> In your money Kenny
> 8×24 oz Walmart Great Value Enriched Quick Grits
> Or about $11
> 
> I believe it depends on which bit of the United States of Canadia you are from as to which you use ;-)
> 
> - MikeB_UK


Ahhh, the universal *********************************** currency - Walmart grits. Well played Mike ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

> Since I haven t posted a pic here in quite a while here is the current crop of planes ready to hit the restore bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are a handful of type 9 thru type 11 bailey s that will most likely get promoted to personal users. Another garage sale Bedrock find. A Miller Falls so Ken has a reason to keep tuning in. And an Ohio 5-1/2 that i also found at a garage sale of all places. I can t wait to get that one done to try it out. The iron on that thing is THICK.
> 
> I wish that was all of them but I know of at least 8 that aren t in the current queue and probably at least that many more I simply forgot where I put them.
> 
> Some day I may admit to having a problem but thankfully today is not that day.
> 
> - sansoo22


Sounds like you've got a lot on your plate lol It's ok, you're among friends, there are no problems here


----------



## DevinT

I only see solutions


----------



## controlfreak

I pick up a nice Stanley 45 for $50 last year so I guess that barely misses the cutoff, too bad.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I wonder what I could get sniping auctions for $39.99 on eBay…

Someone could get a nice surprise. Or just a surprise!


----------



## sansoo22

> Sounds like you ve got a lot on your plate lol It s ok, you re among friends, there are no problems here
> 
> - Mosquito


There is a smooth sole KK5 in there as well. Picked that up after having trouble with the bevel geometry on the KK8 from last year. I saw what you did with the KK8 and just had to take another crack at one.


----------



## bandit571

Let these photos sink in, a bit..









Tight mouth, flat sole. #3 size..









Head-on view..









Starboard side..









Aft….









Frog details..









Contact points (4)..









Lateral adjust area…
Iron has an ECLIPSE stamp..


----------



## RWE

On the Block plane question, I only use those with an adjustable mouth. I work on small projects a lot, boxes and small pieces of furniture. They are useful for smoothing on those type of projects but I mainly use them to chamfer edges.

I am not sure of the angles, but I have a 60 1/2 that is a lower angle than the 9 1/2 angle for the plane iron bed.

Devin: Maybe you were using one of the clunky hard to adjust models when you developed your dislike?


----------



## RWE

Bandit:

Let these photos sink in, a bit..

What is your point with the photos of the Defiance? I am working on the same plane now. #3 like yours. Are the posts uneven?


----------



## DevinT

RWE, I think Stanley block planes are hideous as sin. I like the LV/LN block plane appearances. However, most block planes look like Stanley block planes. Maybe I cannot find beauty in them because they have never worked well for me. They usually destroy whatever I use them on. Every time I pull one out, I am repeating to myself "this is a bad idea" which usually leads to choice words being shouted as they do what they always do.


----------



## RWE

Devin:

Don't hold back on your opinion. However, the question remains, did you try a Stanley adjustable mouth plane with a decent depth adjuster? If you tried one of the cheaper models with no easy way to adjust the iron, I am with you.

I have 4 users in my block plane collection: 
Stanley 9 1/2
Stanley 60 1/2 smaller size and lower angle
Keen Kutter 65 lower angle
Millers Fall 75

I favor the 60 1/2 a bit more than the others.

You seem to like more modern offerings and I am vehemently opposed to "modern". I like the older planes, saws, chisels because I like the history behind them and I like working on them and with them.

I get that a lot of folks like the LN/LV stuff, particularly the low angle jack, but I got into this hobby for the fun of restoring antiques and it would be a violation of my sacred beliefs to buy something modern.

I don't quite get "hideous as sin" but to each his own. The only thing "modern" in my shop are my carving gouges.


----------



## DevinT

The one I tried had no adjusters apart from the screw in the lever cap. To "adjust" it, I would set it on a flat surface, put the blade in, hold the blade … I digress.

I don't care about modern. I just have a certain aesthetic. That bulbous beetle butt doesn't fly with me. I want something substantial that I can grip. The LV Apron plane has sort of a beetle butt, though admittedly smaller. The front thumb plate makes up for it. The fact that I can put a handle on the LV block plane is another great advantage.

Yeah, I don't care about modern. I care about aesthetics and I just don't like that rounded horn that sticks up in the air.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree RWE, an adjustable mouth is pretty much a non-negotiable requirement for a block plane to me. The exception is my MF07 (Stanley 140) which would be better with an adjustable mouth but they never made such an animal and the skewed blade makes it worthwhile. 9-1/2 is also my main 20 deg. block but I find I prefer my 65-1/2 when it comes to a low angle block. The extra length is more comfortable for me for some reason.

I recently got a MF36 which is basically the same as the 9-1/2 but has a knuckle block cap. That knuckle block cap is the most comfortable block plane I've held. If you've never tried one, I recommend it ;-)

I don't share your opposition to modern planes. I've been eyeballing the Veritas skewed rabbet for quite a while now


----------



## HokieKen

A depth adjuster on a block plane can be helpful but even if they have a lateral adjuster, I find I get it set faster and better using a hammer to set the lateral.


----------



## HokieKen

You know you like my beetle butt Devin.


----------



## DevinT

Here are two block planes I think are beautiful …

Infill block plane by Tony Rouleau:










More on that plane

Clifton block plane:


----------



## RWE

60 1/2 in foreground, my favorite, smaller, lower angle
Keen Kutter 65, still new to me, no opinion on it yet, other that is has that cool factor, lower angle










Higher angles, 9 1/2 foreground
Millers Fall 75

These all adjust well, you can set the mouth opening and get very fine shavings or go big. I keep the 60 1/2 finely adjusted, do rougher stuff with the others. Chamfering is big, knock off the sharp edges of boards, use them all the time.










You must have used something like the front row "deplorables".


----------



## DevinT

I think my problem with block planes are that the majority of them have no wood. I think that's why I find most to be ugly, considering that the ones I find to be nice looking incorporate wood.

EDIT: Baby knobs (painted or not) at the front don't count in my opinion.


----------



## RWE

Ken: My general opposition to modern planes is a defense mechanism for my wallet. Plus I try to limit my purchases to things I find in person in the wild.


----------



## rad457

Well,,,,, after actually throwing a Wind Rivers 60 1/2 into the garbage can, I picked up a newer model Stanley 60 1/2 that got tuned and a PMV-11 iron, still on the bench! Then got a LN 102 that will always have a spot in my shop, then came a LN 60 1/2 rabbit that I would recommend to everyone! Kenny's BAD influence got me buyin a bunchn of M.F.s and the MF07 is another plane that will stay close to the bench. All said after picking up a Veritas DX60 and using it all that can be said is the best Block Plane in my shop! The #110, #220 an #9 1/2 all look happy on the shelf


----------



## sansoo22

Who needs wood when you can have polished nickel with that oh so sweet sweetheart logo…technically only the sweetheart part is still nickel plated. The rest is steel and way too much time in front of the buffer.


----------



## DevinT

Yeah, no thanks. I guess I'm just strange.


----------



## RWE

Sansoo: When you post your beautiful planes pictures, I get embarrassed and want to pull down my posts. That block is pretty.


----------



## HokieKen

Ha! Was just thinking the same thing RWE. Saw Sansoo's pic and now I have an overwhelming urge to leave work, go home and polish the living sh!t out of the Millers Falls 36…


----------



## DevinT

I misspoke earlier. I said that LN block planes looked alright. I pulled up their website and looked at them and I was wrong. I find LN block planes to be ugly.


----------



## RWE

Devin:

I think everyone on here is somewhat strange. Most of my relatives are all consumed with their golf game or some sort of "normal" pastime and they wonder about me and this whole woodworking thing.

Look at Kenny's cape for instance. LOL. Bandit has a certain mystery going on. Sansoo is a perfectionist extraordinaire.

My life's goal was to become a "character" and I am well on the way to achieving that. So strange is not bad. You have things that you feel strongly about. This is all good. My point is that it might be erroneous to argue from the specific to the general. Many Stanley blocks are junk, a commodity, sold to Joe Average to plane a door that was sticking, but don't assume they only made junk.

As far as aesthetics, you got me there, don't have much in the way of taste.


----------



## HokieKen

> I misspoke earlier. I said that LN block planes looked alright. I pulled up their website and looked at them and I was wrong. I find LN block planes to be ugly.
> 
> - DevinT


I'm with you completely. I think LN planes in general are ugly. I do not like Bronze parts. At. All.


----------



## Notw

This one has wood on it Devin


----------



## sansoo22

Holy crap I just looked at the price of the Clifton. For some reason i thought they were in the LN or Veritas price category…i was wrong.


----------



## DevinT

Nice. Looks like a Holtey.

Can you name any of these block planes? I'll give you a hint, they are all from the same maker.


----------



## bandit571

Reminds me of a Beer Stein…..


----------



## MikeB_UK

Of course you can have lots of wood in the plane and it still not be pretty.

This is not technically a block plane, but it's what I use for small chamfers etc, so close enough.
Comes in at 3 1/2 inches long.


----------



## corelz125

Sansoo have you tried the nickel plating yet?


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Holy crap I just looked at the price of the Clifton. For some reason i thought they were in the LN or Veritas price category…i was wrong.
> 
> - sansoo22


The bench planes are, at least over here.
Did you just look at the price of their low angle block plane?
That one is expensive but pretty.


----------



## DevinT

Woah, £288, that's more expensive than the Lazarus planes I posted pictures of above. I'd rather have a Lazarus mouse plane than a Clifton block plane, any day of the week. The Mouse Plane is only $385 (£277)


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Woah, £288, that s more expensive than the Lazarus planes I posted pictures of above. I d rather have a Lazarus mouse plane than a Clifton block plane, any day of the week. The Mouse Plane is only $385 (£277)
> 
> - DevinT


If you've got the money Devin go for one of Bruce Neville's
https://www.nevilleplanes.com/classic-handmade-planes/


----------



## sansoo22

> Sansoo have you tried the nickel plating yet?
> 
> - corelz125


I tried it once and I failed pretty hard at it. It was either metal prep or bad solution. I did a small thumb screw off a pretty beat up #45 and it the nickel flaked off on me. I assume it was bad metal prep. This #45 I'm trying to restore was plated with copper and then nickel over top that. I guess some of the early nickel plated Stanley planes were done that way. I'm not sure if i need to remove all the copper first or if i could attempt to replate the copper and then nickel over top.

MikeB - I just looked at the block plane price. Clocks in at about $350 here in the states.


----------



## donwilwol

https://www.timetestedtools.net/product-category/tools/hand-planes/?orderby=price

anything under $60 i'll ship for $40 if you plan to use it for the swap.


----------



## donwilwol

the clifton reminded me of this project--->


----------



## HokieKen

Man Don, all that effort on the back end and you left the phillips head in the knob! ;-) I like the lever screw and the filler in the rear.


----------



## DevinT

Don, very nice. I like what you did there.


----------



## HokieKen

Original Untouched Condition? Somebody in Stanley's QA department really screwed the pooch when that one left the factory!


----------



## sansoo22

Does "original untouched" mean how it came off the assembly line…or does it mean some jerk like me hasn't ruined the "patina"?


----------



## HokieKen

> https://www.timetestedtools.net/product-category/tools/hand-planes/?orderby=price
> 
> anything under $60 i ll ship for $40 if you plan to use it for the swap.
> 
> - Don W


I think whoever has Devin's name for the swap should take Don up on his offer and get the KK18 block plane. Devin loves beetle-butted-block planes.


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, on some level that sounds wrong! ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

It's because I'm recommending a plane that isn't made by Millers Falls when there exists a Millers Falls equivalent Kev. I agree, it's pretty crass.


----------



## DevinT

Ken, help me out with something.

I have run into the occasional oddity. Like a MF plane that ought to be grey being black. A Stanley Defiance that was not black but grey.

To the best of your knowledge, was battleship gray unique to MF? Did MF ever stray from that? Was Stanley Defiance copying MF for a brief time?


----------



## controlfreak

I may have a block plane with Devin's name on it!


----------



## HokieKen

> Ken, help me out with something.
> 
> I have run into the occasional oddity. Like a MF plane that ought to be grey being black. A Stanley Defiance that was not black but grey.
> 
> To the best of your knowledge, was battleship gray unique to MF? Did MF ever stray from that? Was Stanley Defiance copying MF for a brief time?
> 
> - DevinT


The gray Millers Falls planes were the V-Line planes Devin. And the Buck Rogers planes but that's a different animal. All of the MF bench planes that weren't economy models were black enameled. And other than the early Type 1s and later Type 5s, they had red frogs.

Most of the MF block planes were also enameled black but I believe that a couple of the most basic models were gray even before the V line was introduced.

I don't doubt that there were other companies that used gray enamel but no examples come immediatly to mind. But "industrial gray" was a very common color in that era for power tools and I'm sure it bled over (no pun intended) into hand tool lines as well.

And of course it's likely that some tools were repainted by their owners. Especially if they were used in shops and in the field and the owner was worried about them walking off. I've seen more than one plane that was sprayed bright orange on Ebay and I'm certain that was the underlying motivation for doing so.


----------



## Mosquito

> There is a smooth sole KK5 in there as well. Picked that up after having trouble with the bevel geometry on the KK8 from last year. I saw what you did with the KK8 and just had to take another crack at one.
> 
> - sansoo22


All I did was set the frog and give it a quick hone :-D I actually kind of dig the back bevel. I've not put my IBC iron in it yet, just using it as is for now


----------



## HokieKen

Speaking of Buck Rogers… Finally scored one of these in my price range:









Now a 1950 Brace is the only remaining piece to complete the collection


----------



## sansoo22

> I don't doubt that there were other companies that used gray enamel but no examples come immediatly to mind…
> 
> - HokieKen


Have you conveniently blocked the memory of the Stanley Handyman? It most definitely came in battleship grey.

Oddly enough the later Vaughan and Bushnell drop forged planes came in grey as well. One of them will pop up on ebay from time to time and remind me not all grey bodied planes were economy line models.

For example:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/313497450638?hash=item48fde7788e:g:4G4AAOSwxSRgVkR7










I want one but the earlier version which was still black. I really like the lever cap with the brazed logo but that front knob bothers me.


----------



## adot45

> Speaking of Buck Rogers… Finally scored one of these in my price range:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now a 1950 Brace is the only remaining piece to complete the collection
> 
> - HokieKen


Ken, I have one in pretty nice shape, interested in trading?


----------



## HokieKen

One of which adot? The 1950 or the hacksaw?


----------



## DevinT

I found a grey Stanley Defiance, and a grey non-V-Line MF (or at least I think the 900B is not a V-Line plane; could just be missing there badge on the lever cap). Just thought both of those were slightly interesting.


----------



## adot45

For some reason I couldn't add this to my post above.


----------



## adot45

> One of which adot? The 1950 or the hacksaw?
> 
> - HokieKen


The brace Ken, I'm giving up on the BR plane. :-(
There is a pile of em on ebay right now. (The drills)


----------



## HokieKen

> I found a grey Stanley Defiance, and a grey non-V-Line MF (or at least I think the 900B is not a V-Line plane; could just be missing there badge on the lever cap). Just thought both of those were slightly interesting.
> 
> - DevinT


The 900 was sold under the Mohawk/Shelburn branding until the V-line came out some time in the 50's. I'm pretty sure that they were black prior to the V line introduction but I may be wrong about that. I know the wood knob/tote were painted black before the V line and were stained hardwood after.

In any case, any Millers Falls plane that's grey that isn't a Buck Rogers model is a low-end model and I wouldn't waste any time or money on it.

*Edit*: I just looked it up and there was a period between the Mohawk line and the V line when the 900 and 814 models were sold under the Millers Falls name. And they were painted grey during that period as well.


----------



## DevinT

Ken, thanks for the skinny. Definitely helps prune the watch list.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Not convinced on the Buck Rogers stuff, $64 for a surform seems OTT.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324129755897?hash=item4b77a392f9:g:3b8AAOSwl4xejeV1

Not sure I like the look either TBH


----------



## HokieKen

Ebay sellers are all over the place on those. They're a $20-30 tool IMO. It's just a Surform with a handle that can be rotated to be either positioned like a file or like a plane.

Here's a reasonably priced one.


----------



## DevinT

Are Kobalts any good? Meaning, if you got one for free that was tuned up, would you be upset?

I have researched a few opinions and remarks are usually about how the handle has an exceptionally nice feel and how it has some heft. That it usually needs fettling (no problem), but other than that they are considered alright. Interested in others' opinions.


----------



## drsurfrat

Block planes are beautiful, especially low angle ones. maybe they don't have wood, (neither do Bailey Victors) but i really enjoy what they do to wood, especially endgrain. Give me a beaten low angle over a clean deplorable any day.hint hint 
...clearly just my opinion , take no offense


----------



## HokieKen

> Are Kobalts any good? Meaning, if you got one for free that was tuned up, would you be upset?
> ...
> 
> - DevinT


It's hard to be upset with something that's free. However, I can say with a high degree of confidence that it would exit my shop almost as fast as it entered… There are too many affordable vintage planes out there that represent a piece of US industrial history for me to spend any time or energy on a piece of Chinesium devoid of any soul. Obviously that's just my opinion. And therefore, the right one.


----------



## HokieKen

> Block planes are beautiful, especially low angle ones. maybe they don't have wood, (neither do Bailey Victors) but i really enjoy what they do to wood, especially endgrain. Give me a beaten low angle over a clean deplorable any day.hint hint
> ...clearly just my opinion , take no offense
> 
> - drsurfrat


I agree that in general low-angle blocks are the more useful sort. But I actually prefer the lines of the 20 deg bedded ones. Kinda like a Kardashian in heels, that big beetle butt pushed way up in the air like that just does something for me ;-)

Sorry Devin but I'm afraid beetle-butt will forever be a staple of my plane lingo now that you've coined it.


----------



## DevinT

Oh my. I guess I shouldn't dare ask about your opinion of Rolson then. Does this also mean you wouldn't be happy with, say, a shpuntubel? (antique Russian plow plane)

While I've got you, What about antique B planes from the 1800's?

I guess Records are always safe.

Then there's this strange brand, Wodon I've never heard of. The 18" Wodon fore plane doesn't look bad.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I agree with Kenny on the Kobalt. Plenty of North American made planes that would take my time and space in the shop before a Chinese made plane.

Even some old Records from across the pond would do as well.

Veritas and Lie-Nielsen aren't an exception, they fit great into the arsenal as well.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I think I'm the odd ball in this group of odd balls.

I don't collect anything so if it doesn't get used it doesn't stay in the shop. I just don't have the space to keep the things even if I want to sometimes. I have a strict "No Loitering" policy. It includes wives, kids, and tools.


----------



## HokieKen

I think wives and kids loiter by definition.

I have a little bit of a collector in me I suppose but nothing I buy is strictly a shelf queen. Even if I rarely use a tool, it still has to be available and capable of being used when I want to.

I've never heard of Rolson or Shpuntubel Devin but an "antique Russian plow" doesn't sound like anything I would kick out of bed. I recently sold a Record 07 that was my jointer for years until I replaced it with a Miller Falls. It was a great plane. I've never owned a Woden but IIRC they're just re-branded Records so they should be good users from what I've heard. Never heard of a B plane either. If it's from the 1800s though, it's probably a good plane. Unless it's one with an integral frog. I've never really liked those.

To clarify, I wasn't suggesting that only US made planes are good. I was just saying that I'd rather spend $20 on an old Defiance, V-line or Handyman than on a Kobalt. Similarly, if I were in need of crap plane, I'd prefer it be one that had a little history behind it. Even if it was a history of marginal mediocrity…


----------



## controlfreak

I wanted a block plane and bought a kobalt before I knew what a real plane was. I guess I could mess with it or use it to scrape glue off or ohhh if it is less than forty dollars…......


----------



## HokieKen

Well, if you spent more than $40 on a Kobalt block plane, I have a beach house in Arizona I'm looking to sell ;-)


----------



## controlfreak

Now I am afraid to look Kenny

I looked $17.00 or $21 so if I get your name you know what coming


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Oh my. I guess I shouldn t dare ask about your opinion of Rolson then. Does this also mean you wouldn t be happy with, say, a shpuntubel? (antique Russian plow plane)
> 
> While I ve got you, What about antique B planes from the 1800 s?
> 
> I guess Records are always safe.
> 
> Then there s this strange brand, Wodon I ve never heard of. The 18" Wodon fore plane doesn t look bad.
> 
> - DevinT


Nothing wrong with woden, either the ones they made themselves after buying WS or the later ones made by record.


----------



## controlfreak

Woden, that name makes me think back to a cheap furniture brand named "REAL WUD"


----------



## HokieKen

> Now I am afraid to look Kenny
> 
> I looked $17.00 or $21 so if I get your name you know what coming
> 
> - controlfreak


If only there were some way I could ensure you don't get my name…


----------



## DevinT

For the record, shpuntubel is not a brand.

A shpunta is a groove. A shpuntubel is a groove making device. It was part of a family of antique hand tools.

It's a carpenter's tool for building houses.

Shpunutabel up for auction

You had your sherhebel' (short for sherhebelem), shpuntubel' (short for shpuntubelem), fugonok (a jointer plane), a shorter fuganok called a polufuganok, shliftik, kalevkami, gorbachami (compass planes for planing arcs and coopering), and other tools in the plane family.


----------



## theoldfart

Devin, you left out the earschplitenloudenboomer!

If you don't know the term google it. Giving away my age with this.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> For the record, shpuntubel is not a brand.
> 
> A shpunta is a groove. A shpuntubel is a groove making device. It was part of a family of antique hand tools.
> 
> It s a carpenter s tool for building houses.
> 
> Shpunutabel up for auction
> 
> You had your sherhebel (short for sherhebelem), shpuntubel (short for shpuntubelem), fugonok (a jointer plane), a shorter fuganok called a polufuganok, shliftik, kalevkami, gorbachami (compass planes for planing arcs and coopering), and other tools in the plane family.
> 
> - DevinT


They look a bit clunky, but I quite like the design with the screws fixed into the main body instead of the fence, I prefer the ones with wooden screws.
The good thing about the eastern bloc stuff is it was made to work, so it might not look pretty but will function.

I had to widen the throat on mine slightly because it didn't quite fit standard plough plane blades (it was pretty close though).


----------



## DevinT




----------



## HokieKen

I'm more from the *gunter glieben glauchen globen* generation Kev.


----------



## Mosquito

I looked up shpuntubel to see what they looked like, and Bing did not approve lol


----------



## HokieKen

Looks pretty agreeable to me Mos!


----------



## DevinT

Mos, oh my. Google didn't do that to me. Gave me schematics in French for building a house


----------



## corelz125

Found the tube today Kenny.









How much did you get the hack saw for?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Mos posting porn and then Coreiz posting lube…

Great thread…great freaking thread.


----------



## sansoo22

We were talking old eastern bloc planes today and it just so happens that my new toy from Slovakia showed up this evening.










Kinex 500 mm DIN 874-0 spec straight edge. I think that translates to something like 7 micron tolerance for flat and parallel. Either way I have no way to check.

No I did not buy it for checking planes for flat…im not that crazy yet. And yes I did check a few i lapped on my big surface plate…they are indeed flat.


----------



## corelz125

Lol Dave I don't think that stuff will work to good as lube


----------



## HokieKen

Hacksaw was $15 plus $10 shipping Corelz. I budgeted $25 shipped for it and the brace. I thought the brace would be the easier one to get. Guess I thought wrong…


----------



## drsurfrat

> I m more from the *gunter glieben glauchen globen* generation Kev.
> - HokieKen


 For a woodworking site, you sure spend a lot of time with all kinds of metal.


----------



## corelz125

Not bad Kenny. I use mine all the time


----------



## bandit571

Here, I have too many braces in the shop…to the point my No. 1950 is considered "Extra"....

In getting a couple irons ready to ship Monday….looked at a box.
.








Hmmm..









Hmmm…









Ok…..









It do have Sole…









And seems to have a grip on things…









The two irons that will be getting shipped out?









Hmm…









The Craftsman may need a little work….the Stanley seems to be a hair thicker..









Will see how the fellow likes them…( the plane stays here, though…)


----------



## Lazyman

I stumbled upon this Lakeside R3 at a flea market yesterday. Pretty cruddy and has a broken tote but all the parts are there and it came apart pretty easily. Well, except for the screw that holds the u-shaped frog adjustment bracket. I can't seem to get that off. It has Lakeside script on the iron. Am I correct that this is a Rockford made for Montgomery Wards? A quick search doesn't seem to show too many of them in the wild.




























Also, there seems to be no paint or japanning left on it. Were they typically black? What about the cap? Were they painted?


----------



## RWE

Lazyman: I picked up a Lakeside 3 and posted here about it. I remember Don W. or someone identifying it and giving the history. That was a couple of years ago or there abouts. I think what happened was that I found an antique store that had acquired a fellows collection because I picked the Lakeside 3, a Sargetn VBM Jack and a couple more planes including a Stanley transitional. Like a gold mine and the dealer would discount.

I am out of town now, but will post a picture of the plane when I get back. It has the original japanning which I am pretty sure was black. It made a decent little user. Search this thread for Lakeside and it may take you to that discussion.


----------



## corelz125

I just saw a R5 with a lakeside iron on market place yesterday. Might of been going for $30. I had a lakeside #5 a few years ago. It was a good solid plane.


----------



## sansoo22

> Also, there seems to be no paint or japanning left on it. Were they typically black? What about the cap? Were they painted?
> 
> - Lazyman


The 5 examples of a Marsh/Rockford I own were finished in black. I do not believe they were japanned though. The black finish comes off super easy. My guess is they were simply painted or enameled. I quite like the Marsh/Rockford design of the frog. Its machined along the sides where it contacts the body and seats very solidly.

Marsh M4, Stanley #4, and Rockford R4


----------



## Lazyman

Being the impatient sort, I did a quick clean and rust removal followed by a sharpening and this plane will cut. Not too bad for a restoration rookie, IIMSSM. Not sure why it looks so dark in the picture.










Quite a bit of pitting I need to deal with and I have not done anything to the nob and broken tote yet. The backlash on the depth adjustment seems a little greater than I'm used to. It'll never look anywhere close to a Sansoo restoration but with a little more attention it will make a reasonably good user.


----------



## ac0rn

Sansoo- Very nice as usual.


----------



## ac0rn

This morning a serendipitous opportunity presented itself. Planes, saws, with the manual grinders thrown in. $350. All irons appear sharp, and saws as well.










Lie-Nielson 102, Stanley #'s 60, 78, 80, 4, 7, Woodriver #5










Ulmia 60mm Frame saw, Grammercy Tools Frame saw, 3 Veritas, 3 Disston, 1 ??










I intend to keep the Ulmia saw, and Large Veritas saws, everything else will need to go. 
If there is any interest send a pm. It will go CL or Eb in a few weeks


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Greta haul Jeff. You should be able to get your $359 back easy.

Fwiw, I have that little LN 102. It sits in my apron and chamfers things. It's amazing how much I grab that thing. Totally cool little plane. With bought it for me for a gift at one point.

Saws look great. Grinders too. I've always wanted one of those but couldn't think of a good enough reason to have one take space.


----------



## RWE

Lazyman:

My Lakeside 3 is a Union made plane. Will not help you in your restoration.


----------



## corelz125

Nice score Jeff


----------



## sansoo22

> The backlash on the depth adjustment seems a little greater than I'm used to.
> 
> - Lazyman


The backlash seems to be hit or miss on my Rockford/Marsh planes. Two of the bunch feel sloppy, one has barely any backlash to speak of, and the others feel comparable to a Stanley.


----------



## DevinT

I almost bought a 1889 B Plane. I liked the twisted lateral adjuster and wanted to check out the "captive" lateral which was patented. Wasn't quite the condition I was looking for though.


----------



## DevinT

So, my the first plane I had success with was a Veritas, but after using a Stanley type 11 I have to say I am falling out of love with the Norris adjuster. Anyone else have a similar experience?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Yes Devin. I'm a fan of BU planes and Veritas planes in general but if you're smoothing and want the smallest of shavings then you have to stop pushing to adjust unlike a Stanley bench plane or similar.

So for smoothing especially I think the Norris adjuster is annoying. Otherwise I'm good with it.


----------



## RWE

Devin: I get as much enjoyment out of restoring a plane as I do in using it. I have taken to sharpening my irons with a flat edge and just rounded corners. I used to put a bit of camber on them and still have several set up that way. So I think the key is to have multiple planes in any size, but particularly in smoother and jack sizes with different setups, camber on the iron for aggressive planing, flatter irons for smoothing.

Each type of plane will have characteristics that are different, but if you use one of those digital devices to help you make sure your iron is "laterally adjusted", I am not sure if the type of lateral adjuster makes an overriding difference.

So my recommendation is to buy restorable planes cheaply and set them up a bit differently. If you are chasing perfection, get the Hock irons or the PM-V11 irons.


----------



## sansoo22

Found my plane for Secret Santa. And because I love planes so much…not because I have a problem…I wound up also getting an elusive Rockford R7 and a Stanley #31 transitional to go with my #32. I guess I'm working my way backwards from largest to smallest with with wood bodied bastards.


----------



## rad457

Interesting, all my user Stanleys have PMV-11 irons as do the few Veritas planes I have but to date I think the thinnest shaving I ever produced was from a Krenov style with a Hock iron Hammer type adjuster! 
On a side note cleaned up one of the #46 and started to work on Kenny's blades, dang them suckers are hard!


----------



## DevinT

I'm not chasing gossamer shavings or imperfection.

What I am seeing is that the backlash in the system is really annoying. The lateral adjustment itself is super touchy and even with the long Norris down-rod (vs short one on planes like the Custom line) hitting the sweet spot is rather challenging compared to my Stanley.

Hitting that sweet spot on the Stanley is faster and once I hit it, I will sill be adjusting the depth to adapt to changes in the wood as I approach flat.

Again, not chasing perfection, just trying to eliminate time wasted getting to where I need to be to remove twist or sundry hindrances to creating a finish-ready surface or glue-ready surface.


----------



## DevinT

I sharpened all my blades and chip breakers over the weekend


----------



## RWE

By perfection, I meant that buying a replacement iron gets you to planing well much faster. Sharpening is a bit of an art and some of the old irons can be a challenge. However, I think the older irons can give a great result and I only have two Hock irons and one PMV-11 that I acquired for my shooting board plane.

To be quite honest, I am going to try to systematically go back through my users and do some refining.

Also, nothing wrong with chasing perfection. If you don't think so, just ask Sansoo.


----------



## DevinT

I have 3 PM-V11 blades, a laminated Stanley No 8 blade from 1910-1915, and some unknown tiny block plane blade. No Hock irons yet. Thinnest shavings are PM-V11 for me. Never heard of a digital device to check for lateral adjustments. Would like to see one of those.


----------



## Lazyman

> The backlash on the depth adjustment seems a little greater than I'm used to.
> 
> - Lazyman
> 
> The backlash seems to be hit or miss on my Rockford/Marsh planes. Two of the bunch feel sloppy, one has barely any backlash to speak of, and the others feel comparable to a Stanley.
> 
> - sansoo22


Good to know. Thanks.


----------



## RWE

Here is a link to one from IGaging the Rockler site. May be on Amazon as well, Google for it. Kenny posted about this earlier in the thread and he uses a more generic device, but the key is to have magnetic "feet" on the device. You can check each side easily and make sure you are getting a level shaving.


----------



## DevinT

Oh I see. And it's from a brand I already have invested in (I have the iGaging Fastener Calipers, and the digital wheel marking gauge). I'll have to pick those up. Thanks!


----------



## KentInOttawa

A local crafter collects my shavings for her craft. Some days, like today, I just feel like making some more for her.


----------



## DevinT

That's better than what I did with my shavings this morning


----------



## Lazyman

No! Don't toss them out. Compost them or save them to mail your swap plane instead of packing peanuts.


----------



## DevinT

Oh, that's a good idea! I'll pull them out of the bin and put them in a bag and set them aside.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Oh, that s a good idea! I ll pull them out of the bin and put them in a bag and set them aside.
> 
> - DevinT


Just makesome more. :-D


----------



## DevinT

Here are some more images from this weekend's planing. The goal: take a board that was 1 1/8" thick and get it down to 5/16" thick with one finish-ready side and one glue-ready side. I started off by opening the throat on my Veritas smoother real wide and taking cuts across the grain (first pile of shavings) then switched to the Stanley No 8 (second pile of shavings) and then finally closed the throat on the smoother and took it as far as it would go without a sharpening (last pile of shavings in background):










Overhead view:










Overhead view from the other side of the table:










Close-up of the shavings made during initial smoothing efforts:










The board looks to be in rough shape in the photos, and that's because it is. I had not done final smoothing on it yet.

It looks good, but whether the face that I flattened becomes the show side instead of the glue side depends on how the other side turns out.

First, I will place the piece flat-side down on the tape using carpet tape and then go over it with my router and surfacing jig until I've hit all the low spots. Then I will go over it with a smoother to take out any tracks. Depending on which side comes out best and which has the nicest grain pattern, that will be the side I dedicate to being the non-glue sides.


----------



## DevinT

> Oh, that s a good idea! I ll pull them out of the bin and put them in a bag and set them aside.
> 
> - DevinT
> Just makesome more. :-D
> 
> - Kent


I am sure there will be more. Who knows, might get a mix of exotic and domestic shavings for packing material.


----------



## ac0rn

Devin- With a board that size, why not resaw for two boards. shavings may be nice, but saving the resource for another project might be nicer.


----------



## sansoo22

> Here is a link to one from IGaging the Rockler site. May be on Amazon as well, Google for it. Kenny posted about this earlier in the thread and he uses a more generic device, but the key is to have magnetic "feet" on the device. You can check each side easily and make sure you are getting a level shaving.
> 
> - RWE


I have that IGaging gauge. I got it mostly because I was having issues with getting my #112 set correctly but I've also used it to better train my eye and fingers to set my bench planes correctly after sharpening. It taught me a great deal about making micro adjustments with the lateral lever. It rarely takes more than 3 tries to get a plane to pull full width shavings and leave no tracks now…and I don't camber any of my irons more than a heavy touch at the corners on the stones. But then again I am a bit of a perfectionist as we are well aware. I attribute that trait to many years in martial arts when I was younger. You will never reach true perfection but the knowledge gained in its pursuit is its own reward.


----------



## DevinT

> Devin- With a board that size, why not resaw for two boards. ...


I did.



> shavings may be nice, but saving the resource for another project might be nicer.


I don't have a band saw, that means a resaw (like the one I did by hand) needs cleaning up. Shavings are just a by-product of making a reference face by hand without having a jointer. The next step will produce sawdust as I use a router in a surfacing jig in-lieu of having a thickness planer. Seeing the pattern?

Don't care about shavings. I am simply doing the age old task of dimensioning lumber for a project, albeit with one twist by using a router/sled to make the face opposing the reference surface parallel so I don't have to worry about "going over" and creating faces that are not parallel with one-another.


----------



## RWE

I don't use my Igaging much now, but as i noted, I am in the process of reevaluating my cleaning and refurbing techniques. I posted about a saw on the saw forum today and I am going to change how I clean my saw handles based on info shared by Summerfi about Oven Cleaner and Oxalic acid. So I may do the same with plane totes and knobs. Normally I sand and just go with BLO/Denatured Alcohol mixture.

I figured I had fallen into a rut and need to push a little more on my efforts in restoration. So I think I will bring back the Igaging and do some more experimenting with it.

As long as you are advancing your skills, that is the main thing, I guess. I used the Igaging when I first started with planes and have since done more of the Paul Sellers thing where I put a narrow board in the vise and test shavings off of each side, till they match. That assumes the middle is rounded consistently if there is camber or flat if the iron is not chambered, but the MK2 jig takes care of that assumption fairly well.

Devin: You should go full Paul Sellers with that thick board and just hand resaw it perfectiy with a nice but old rip saw. That is not actually to bad a thing to try, just flip the board as you deepen the cut and keep the kerf at a 45 degree or so angle. All of you cutting focus should be on the line you follow, and when you flip it around, your saw follows the cut on the other side. For my part, I use the bandsaw, but I can do the handsaw thing if time allows.


----------



## RWE

Sansoo Posted:
It rarely takes more than 3 tries to get a plane to pull full width shavings and leave no tracks now…a*nd I don't camber any of my irons more than a heavy touch at the corners on the stones.* But then again I am a bit of a perfectionist as we are well aware. I attribute that trait to many years in martial arts when I was younger. You will never reach true perfection but the knowledge gained in its pursuit is its own reward.

One more thing. How about some comments about plane iron camber and how folks approach that. I have a dedicated scrub plane with heavy camber. I have the MKII option that lets you rock side to side to camber an iron. For the most part, other than my earlier metal planes that I set up for scrubbing, before I got the sure nuf scrubber, I keep them square with the edges rounded over.

I get band saw mill air dried lumber that often has twist and such. So you eat up a lot wood on a power jointer or preprocess the wood with the hand planes, which I do. After that, it is jointing, smoothing with mostly flat irons.

I figure a very light camber might be best, but I am not sure.


----------



## bandit571

I really do mot bother with replacement irons…as I tend to view those way too thick irons as simply a crutch….some replace the OEM irons, instead of just setting the plane up properly…..









This does indeed have the iron that the factory supplied it with…









All of these are OEM irons…


















IF set up properly, there is never any chatter. usually view after-market irons as a waste of money…


----------



## RWE

For the most part I am with you on the plane iron thing Bandit. I have a few that had badly damaged, pitted or missing irons, so I first got a Hock. A friend wanted to buy me a woodworking tool for my birthday, so I got the PMV-11 to see what that was about.

I got tired of seeing that square top on the Hock irons in my old plane. It ruined the purity of the experience but it sure cut well. So if I deal with the devil and get another after market iron, it will be the PMV-11 again. That matte finish on the PMV-11 is just not right though.

I need an iron for a #6, early type, type 11 I believe, so for that I will try to conjure an original iron. My weird rules don't allow me to mess with the really old tools, but say a type 16, no problem, slap an aftermarket iron in it and go.


----------



## controlfreak

I bought a Work Sharp 3000 an really like it for my chisels. This camber talk has me thinking, about how to get a camber on a iron if it will fit in the sloped guide. When I build a top tray I suppose I can use the guide and a little pressure or just go to the stones to get a little camber.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I mostly agree with Bandit but in this case I don't see an aftermarket blade as a crutch. A lot of the steel made today is much better than it was even 30 years ago which could mean less time sharpening which is something we all hate to stop work to do even if it's a quick task sometimes.

I can see the benefit. It's not like using a dovetail guide with a jap saw, that's a crutch IMO (I've done this way back when) but I don't necessarily think an aftermarket blade is a crutch. I don't have any aftermarket blades but I won't say I never will.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I bought a Work Sharp 3000 an really like it for my chisels. This camber talk has me thinking, about how to get a camber on a iron if it will fit in the sloped guide. When I build a top tray I suppose I can use the guide and a little pressure or just go to the stones to get a little camber.
> 
> - controlfreak


If you dig deep into the manual for that thing (manual?), you'll discover that they've left open access to the bottom of the disk/plate at the rear for "freehand operations. If you want something more repeatable than freehand, then figure out a jig for back there (or up top). Here's a short video to get the creative juices flowing. PLMK what you come up with so that I can steal your idea. Also, Stumpy has an ancient video (10 years ago already) on making your own platform and disk storage.


----------



## corelz125

First plane I bought was a new Bailey with the plastic handles. I had no clue about sharpening so I bought a hock. I usually keep the original irons but if I need a replacement I will go with another Hock.

Actually I need a chip breaker and iron for an Ohio #02. See if Hock has any.

My shavings usually end up as Husky bedding


----------



## sansoo22

All of my scrapers have Hock irons in them and it made a big difference in how well they performed. I've had a Hock in a block plane and bench plane. Didn't notice much of a difference at all and don't have either of those planes anymore.

If the new irons keep an edge longer then I can definitely see that as a bonus if you do a lot of hand tool work. There are a few rare instances where a new iron may eliminate issues. The iron that came in my 604C felt like it had been put on an anvil and pounded with a hammer. That side mated with the frog and no matter what I did that plane would chatter. No amount of sharp fixed that behavior either. I swapped the iron for another Stanley OEM iron and the problem went away. This year I will probably break the 100 mark for planes I've restored/tuned and of all of those only 2 irons have had the rippled/hammered issue…so it does happen but my experience says its rare.


----------



## bandit571

Have never had any chatter for a Millers Falls plane…..rarely with a Sargent made plane…Stanley Handyman planes tend to chatter..

Been rehabbing planes since the early 1990s…...I might just have the system down.

Seem to recall, that one of the ideas from Leonard Bailey…..he could USE a thinner iron because the chipbreaker worked to stiffen the iron, and prevent chatter….IF the chipbreaker is mated to the iron properly. The other item…was a ramp for the iron to rest on, at the back of the mouth…..Ramp and face of the frog need to be coplannar…..To support the iron in the plane.

And…as soon as one moves the frog ahead of that ramp ( close up the mouth?) you WILL get chatter from the unsupported iron. The idea is to use the chipbreaker to close up the mouth….by being set as close to the edge of the iron as you can. The above, Patented ideas have been in use since…..1865 or so?

Now, IF a plane is designed to use those too thick after-market irons….and, you can get the chipbreaker that goes with that fat iron to work…fine. But, to say a vintage plane NEEDS such a thick iron…is more like marketing hype.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> But, to say a vintage plane NEEDS such a thick iron…is more like marketing hype.
> - bandit571


Couldn't agree more with that one.

On a side note, I probably over paid for it but I did snag my first Miller's Falls off EBay last night. I grabbed a MF 10. I'll wait to get it to decide how far of a restore I'll go with it but it'll be my main user as I get back to more and more hand tool work. It'll replace the Veritas low angle/BU smoother I have now as my everyday carry.

Can't beat a quiet shop.


----------



## drsurfrat

> Can't beat a quiet shop.
> - KelleyCrafts


Couldn't agree more with that one.


----------



## controlfreak

> Can't beat a quiet shop.
> - KelleyCrafts
> 
> Couldn't agree more with that one.
> 
> - drsurfrat


My thoughts too. I have been binge listening to old Woodtalk podcasts in the shop as I was cutting through mortices last night. Was going to drill out the waste but ended up knocking it out with a chisel.


----------



## controlfreak

Found a plane in the right price range on ebay the other day in its original box. Not sure if it is a good enough candidate for the Santa plane swap so I will need to reread the rules and see how I feel about it. At least I have a back up plan if I can't find something unique to rehab.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Control freak, I don't mind d the drill press much so I don't usually mind firing that up and it's fairly quick.

I'm building an executive desk for my dad and have been using electrons mostly to dimension everything. It would take me forever otherwise and I have to much on my list to go all hand tools. So shop time for me lately has been loud, not as relaxing.

Once I'm past this part I'll get to hand tool work, DT drawers, shoot the ends of everything square, etc. looking forward to that part.


----------



## Mosquito

> Now, IF a plane is designed to use those too thick after-market irons….and, you can get the chipbreaker that goes with that fat iron to work…fine. But, to say a vintage plane NEEDS such a thick iron…is more like marketing hype.
> 
> - bandit571


This.

This is squarely where I am at with my Keen Kutter KK series planes. The nice thing about them is that they can take the thick aftermarket irons without having to be modified. And in general, their original chip breakers work with said aftermarket irons as well.

Since the KK Planes I use already have the thick tapered irons, I certainly don't need a new thicker aftermarket iron, I just like them because I prefer using my planes over sharpening my plane irons (is that a different way of saying I'm lazy? lol)


----------



## Mosquito

> Found a plane in the right price range on ebay the other day in its original box. Not sure if it is a good enough candidate for the Santa plane swap so I will need to reread the rules and see how I feel about it. At least I have a back up plan if I can t find something unique to rehab.
> 
> - controlfreak


I have a feeling this secret santa swap thing is going to result in a bunch of us buying a lot of planes that we end up keeping before we settle on the one we're sending lol


----------



## DevinT

I am bidding on the first plane for Santa Swap today. With over 6 months to go before the swap, I absolutely see myself buying more than one and keeping some for myself, lol.


----------



## drsurfrat

> I have a feeling this secret santa swap thing is going to result in a bunch of us buying a lot of planes that we end up keeping before we settle on the one we re sending lol
> - Mosquito





> I am bidding on the first plane for Santa Swap today. With over 6 months to go before the swap, I absolutely see myself buying more than one and keeping some for myself, lol.
> 
> - DevinT


I am on number four. Kenny is evil.


----------



## Notw

> Can't beat a quiet shop.
> - KelleyCrafts
> 
> Couldn't agree more with that one.
> 
> - drsurfrat
> 
> My thoughts too. I have been binge listening to old Woodtalk podcasts in the shop as I was cutting through mortices last night. Was going to drill out the waste but ended up knocking it out with a chisel.
> 
> - controlfreak


Quiet shop??? I couldn't hear anything over me wheezing last night flattening a mahogany board


----------



## Mosquito

I should have bookmarked one of the posts with the secret santa swap rules, but didn't… anyone happen to have that handy? Otherwise we'll have to bug Kenny when he's back from vacation lol


----------



## Notw

did I break a rule?


----------



## controlfreak

> did I break a rule?
> 
> - Notw


As my wife would say "well if you don't know then I am not going to tell you"


----------



## Mosquito

updated it to indicate it was the agreed upon rules for the secret santa swap lol


----------



## Lazyman

Most of you probably follow the restoration thread but here it my Lakeside R3 cleanup mostly completed:










I tested it on some bois d'arc, mesquite and pecan and it works a quite well. Pitting on one corner of the iron means it currently doesn't quite make a full width cut. Wondering if a slight back bevel might help with that instead of grinding the edge further back or a couple hours of flattening on the back.


----------



## drsurfrat

Rules posted on this thread, by HokieKen, #5083 posted 01-06-2021 09:57 AM

Kenny will sooner or later make a separate thread, I assume.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks. That post is HERE if anyone else needs it


----------



## Notw

> did I break a rule?
> 
> - Notw
> 
> As my wife would say "well if you don t know then I am not going to tell you"
> 
> - controlfreak


Then my response is typically "If I don't know and you aren't going to tell me then I'm not going to worry about it "


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Looks great Nathan!


----------



## controlfreak

> did I break a rule?
> 
> - Notw
> 
> As my wife would say "well if you don t know then I am not going to tell you"
> 
> - controlfreak
> 
> Then my response is typically "If I don t know and you aren t going to tell me then I m not going to worry about it "
> 
> - Notw


As she leaves the room in a huff


----------



## Notw

CF so i don't know whats wrong and i get peace and quiet????


----------



## controlfreak

I can only wish she would say "go out in your shop and think about what you have done" , Oh yeah.


----------



## controlfreak

The kids didn't really do much for Mothers day, boy am I glad I got her something nice. It was kind of hard to hide the purchase but I did. She kept saying I"I know you bought another tool". I hid the gift in the shop where she never goes. I also neglected to tell her I bought another dovetail saw too.


----------



## corelz125

Control freak you get that comment to? Glad I'm not the only one. I had some self control only bought one plane for the swap. The others I bought for myself were over the spending limit


----------



## sansoo22

I technically bought two for the swap by accident. Tossed out a couple low ball offers and both got accepted. Which probably means I used up all that magic for the year already.

The lack of self control comes in when I'm already on ebay and just for giggles decide to search for V&B, Rockford, Marsh, or other out of the ordinary brands and something shows up at a fair price.


----------



## corelz125

I've been avoiding ebay. The V&B's are going for more than what I want to pay lately and are spotty. Not a whole lot of 900's to choose from.


----------



## bandit571

Self-control?









When you turn a corner in a store…and see this….


----------



## DavePolaschek

Huh. I bought five planes since signing up for the HPOYDSS, but I also bought five Stanley Global #3s from a guy in Canada when the exchange rate made them less than $20 US briefly on eBay, so…

One of you will be getting a special treat. And if I'm successful in my sniping, maybe a Global #3 as a bonus. ;-)


----------



## sansoo22

I found a 905 V&B priced less than all the 904s I had seen in the last several months because I can't spell "Vaughan" on the first try and apparently the seller couldn't either. With shipping I'm in it for $105 so "reasonable" might be stretching it but with all the 904s starting around that mark and up, I figured I'd pick up the 905.

Fortunately for me I'm not short on seriously butt ugly planes I spent very little on that I've made look near new to list and recoupe my cost on the V&B. And that ladies and gentlemen is how the rabbit hole gets you. Buy cheap plane, make "purdy", and sell to get fancier and fancier planes.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I didn't even join the swap and I bought a vintage plane. It's contagious.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> Self-control? - bandit571


Easy. Carry an empty wallet. :-(0)


----------



## rad457

> I ve been avoiding ebay. The V&B s are going for more than what I want to pay lately and are spotty. Not a whole lot of 900 s to choose from.
> 
> - corelz125


Got ya beat, cancelling my E-Bay account an closing Pay-Pal, and attempting to close F.B. 
Figured the time has come


----------



## DevinT

Haven't been able to get a good plane yet for my Secret Santa recipient. He is rather particular and knows what he likes. All the acceptable planes are going for more than $40. There is time.


----------



## corelz125

That hand plane group on FB was another place for temptation Andre. Don W was enabling when he shared that one


----------



## controlfreak

> Haven't been able to get a good plane yet for my Secret Santa recipient. He is rather particular and knows what he likes. All the acceptable planes are going for more than $40. There is time.
> 
> - DevinT


You know who it is? I must have missed an email I guess.


----------



## adot45

> You know who it is? I must have missed an email I guess.
> 
> - controlfreak


Yes, I think you did cf, I got the name of my recipient April 16, maybe check your spam folder?


----------



## controlfreak

Found it using search, I even acknowledged it but forgot I did.


----------



## Mosquito

CF must have me, I have one of those forgettable faces


----------



## controlfreak

One word Mos…Kobalt. Because a little blue looks good on you.


----------



## Mosquito

lol it can have a spot right next to my buck brothers


----------



## bandit571

Kobalt? You don't suppose it is the same one I returned to Lowes, after a week of trying to get it to act like a plane…...hmmmmm…


----------



## Mosquito

Oh my buck brothers acts like a plane…

A plane with 2 buck teeth and an overbite…


----------



## BlasterStumps

"The goal: take a board that was 1 1/8" thick and get it down to 5/16" thick with one finish-ready side and one glue-ready side."

Devin, why not resaw the thickness first, then plane?


----------



## DevinT

> "The goal: take a board that was 1 1/8" thick and get it down to 5/16" thick with one finish-ready side and one glue-ready side."
> 
> Devin, why not resaw the thickness first, then plane?
> 
> - BlasterStumps


That's the first thing I did. I resewed it roughly in half, then thicknessed, then planed smooth; both sides.

It took me 2 hours to resaw that little board by hand using a Ryobi pull saw. Then it took me 6 hours to plane both sides to a glass-like smooth surface.


----------



## bandit571

Kobalt….








Mohawk-Shelburne…








And….this one is from a Worth brand of PEXTO


----------



## controlfreak

> Kobalt? You don t suppose it is the same one I returned to Lowes, after a week of trying to get it to act like a plane…...hmmmmm…
> 
> - bandit571


Bandit, I can't even imagine you down to one plane and it being a Kobalt.


----------



## DevinT

Before the resaw: 1 1/8" thick x 20" long x 5-6" wide (the smaller of the two boards in the below photo)










Setting up for the resaw:










After the resaw:










Then thicknessed to remove the rough bits left by the resaw:










Then planed smooth using Radi plane first to round 2 of the edges to prevent blow-out during scrub-up and smoothing, then Stanley No 8 to get flat, then Veritas No 4 to get smooth, then Veritas apron plane to get even smoother:




























Then flipped the board and planed the other side:





































I bagged up the shavings to use for packing material:










Some of my favorite shavings that I saved:


----------



## DevinT

What are some of the places other than eBay that I should be looking for HPOYDSS? Because I am seeing it as not really all that feasible to nab something for $40 (or less) that would make my guy happy

There have been a couple rust buckets that would take about 4 weeks to get into the shape my guy needs from his planes, but I am not sure I want that level of commitment right now


----------



## theoldfart

Devin, if your looking to resaw by hand regularly I'd suggest a frame saw and a kerfing plane.



















Mine is rather large, 48" cutting blade. Isaac Smith at Blackburn tools has three sizes available as kits.

http://www.blackburntools.com/new-tools/new-saws-and-related/roubo-frame-saw-kit/index.html


----------



## DevinT

Kevin, thanks. It looks like you can't buy a kerfing plane already made, and that I'll have to make one. Might try and make one out of a Vaughn Bear Saw blade.

I've seen Rex Kreuger use a frame saw on his YouTube channel. They look really useful. Definitely a lot less metal to get pinched and I think that should make it work better.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Good job Devin. Your upper body strength is pretty good. Nice work. I presume your pull saw has a rip side. You certainly have stick-to-it-ivness, much more than me that's for sure. I'm impressed.


----------



## DevinT

Thanks BlasterStumps. My secret weapon is lack of fear. I don't know what I don't know.


----------



## controlfreak

> Devin, if your looking to resaw by hand regularly I'd suggest a frame saw and a kerfing plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mine is rather large, 48" cutting blade. Isaac Smith at Blackburn tools has three sizes available as kits.
> 
> http://www.blackburntools.com/new-tools/new-saws-and-related/roubo-frame-saw-kit/index.html
> 
> - theoldfart


Man, that is something I have got to try building soon, beautiful! What's the frame wood, Ash?


----------



## sansoo22

> Kevin, thanks. It looks like you can t buy a kerfing plane already made, and that I ll have to make one. Might try and make one out of a Vaughn Bear Saw blade.
> 
> I ve seen Rex Kreuger use a frame saw on his YouTube channel. They look really useful. Definitely a lot less metal to get pinched and I think that should make it work better.
> 
> - DevinT


Bad axe sells both a pre-made Roubo style frame saw and kerfing plane if you got around $800 bucks you need to spend. Or you can order a kit with the parts to make both for around $275.

http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/kpfs-Roubo.php


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, it is ash on both planes. The fence on the kerfing plane is from a dealers parts bin.

Devin, if you make both make sure the plane blade is the same thickness as the saw plate.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Here's a sway on topic. Hand planes of your dreams and all. I've always wanted a Stanley 72 chamfer plane.

Anyone on here have one and use it often? Worth the crazy dollars people ask for them? It's not in my budget this month unless I had a solid deal fly my way but I've been watching eBay for a couple years now and haven't found a deal worthwhile. Should I just stop looking or is it worth the buy?


----------



## Mosquito

Kevin, did your 405 bases show up yet?

I got my Records today


----------



## theoldfart

Tomorrow Mos. Having trouble waiting!


----------



## DevinT

Ooo.


----------



## Mosquito

I've been waiting for a set of 3 planes from over in the UK for a month now lol. You pay out the noise for shipping from the UK, and you'd think you'd be able to get things moving a little quicker lol


----------



## controlfreak

The boats all wear masks now Mos and the extra drag is slowing them down


----------



## Ocelot

> Here's a sway on topic. Hand planes of your dreams and all. I've always wanted a Stanley 72 chamfer plane.
> 
> Anyone on here have one and use it often? Worth the crazy dollars people ask for them? It's not in my budget this month unless I had a solid deal fly my way but I've been watching eBay for a couple years now and haven't found a deal worthwhile. Should I just stop looking or is it worth the buy?
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


Do you just want to chamfer things or do you just want that particular plane?

I have a japanese adjustable chamfer plane and really like it. Mine is older and not scewed.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I definitely want it to be a user. I like changers over rounded corners. I'll have to check those Japanese planes out.


----------



## Ocelot

Video


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Doesn't look like it would be too difficult to make actually. I'm always stretched on time but I have a metal mill. Could even do one in metal.

Interested to see how deep/wide a chamfer that can make. I would want to use it as a decent sized chamfer, not just the means to ease edges.

Those aren't necessarily a cheap alternative to the Stanley 72 but definitely worth a look. You have sent me on a research journey Ocelot.

Thanks!


----------



## Lazyman

So on the 72, do you have to adjust the sole/depth after each pass? It doesn't look like it has an adjustment screw so does it have to be tweaked forward manually as you go? That seems like it would be a PITA.


----------



## RWE

If you take JayT's approach that he used on making an Infill Shooting Plane, I believe you could use the parts from a transitional mounted to a v-grooved body.

JayT's infill shooting plane on TimeTestedTools


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I do t think it would be a pain Nathan. You would just move the body as you go with the adjuster.

Just like the Japanese one Ocelot linked you would have to widen the screws along the way as well.


----------



## RWE

My best friend has a 72. I have looked at it but not used it. However, i got one of those cheap little block plane sized gizmos off of Amazon. I set the depth of the blade for the size chamfer I want and just cut lightly until I bottom out. No adjusting for each pass. Works well that way for me.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Funny you mention JayTs shooting plane. I built that when he was blogging about it.

That makes sense RWE on the shallow passes.

I'll stay in the market for a 72 and still do some more research on other options. Would be nice to get say a 3/4" chamfer on a desk top or something.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> So on the 72, do you have to adjust the sole/depth after each pass? It doesn t look like it has an adjustment screw so does it have to be tweaked forward manually as you go? That seems like it would be a PITA.
> 
> - Lazyman


Warning: I have NO firsthand experience.

I understand that you run one side of the guide down one of the adjacent surfaces while pushing the blade ahead and towards that edge. You just keep planing until the second guide acts as a stop.


----------



## RWE

KelleyCrafts:

I have been looking for a cheap (trashed out) transitional to make the shooting plane. However most of the transitionals I have have an elongated metal section behind where the iron fits. I assume you would just cut that off, but I was wondering what size transitional you might have used for your build. I assume you would use a Jack/Fore plane sized parts? I guess I need to go back and read the blog, but I just started looking for the parts before reading and studying about it.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

That makes sense Kent, then you wouldn't readjust the depth and make uneven chamfers from one edge to the side or back of a table/desk etc. you know you would never get the thing set right again to match them up.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

RWE I honestly can't remember what transitional I bought for it. I snagged something at my local antique store but iirc it was rough jack plane size. Bigger than a smoother for sure.


----------



## Ocelot

> Doesn't look like it would be too difficult to make actually. I'm always stretched on time but I have a metal mill. Could even do one in metal.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


Glad to help. Mine was used and less than $40, I think. The kids like it too. Since it cuts so little wood, it's very easy to use. I should have called it mentori kanna (sometimes mentori ganna)

Search youtube for Mentori Kanna and there is a guy making one.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I already watched that one Ocelot. Doesn't look to bad. I might go that route if a 72 doesn't jump out and bite me.

Going to research more on the Japanese plane front.

The 72 was in Stanley's lineup for over 50 years so it couldn't have been that bad to use.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> So on the 72, do you have to adjust the sole/depth after each pass?.
> 
> - Lazyman


Nope. Set the width of the cut (that's the chamfer face) and go to town. Quite simple to do.


----------



## theoldfart

^ yea, if one has one of those unobtanium #72 chamfer in their till!


----------



## theoldfart

Drooling while jealous is not a pretty sight so turn away if your easily upset.


----------



## corelz125

RWE the last lot I bought was a there was a trashed Sargent transitional but I think it was a smoother. Looking for a jack?


----------



## RWE

> RWE the last lot I bought was a there was a trashed Sargent transitional but I think it was a smoother. Looking for a jack?
> 
> - corelz125


I think a smoother would work. I work "small" so I don't need a really wide iron. Probably close to the same width in both.

Truth be told, I have a decent metal plane to use. I just wanted to do the JayT thing for the fun of it.

PM me if you have it and want to turn it.


----------



## Mosquito

I've got a transitional jack plane you can have if it doesn't work out with Corelz's smoother, RWE. It's in pretty poor condition as a plane, but if all a person was looking for was the frog and cap stuff, it should be fine for that I think. I'd have to look again though, as I haven't really examined it in quite a few years (like 10) lol


----------



## Mosquito

On the #72, I believe Dan had one, but I think he may have mentioned selling it a few years back. Though he also doesn't pop in here anymore either, so I guess that wouldn't help either.

Closest I have to a #72 is the box for a #72-1/2 lol


----------



## corelz125

Lol Mos the one you have can't be much worse than the one I have. At least yours is complete


----------



## HokieKen

Missed a ton of posts that I may or may not catch up on. I tooled across Rt. 66 to Williams AZ today and will be riding the rails to the Grand Canyon in the morning for a few days. But for tonight… Grand Canyon Brewery Taphouse 

Seen a lot of canyons but mountains are severely lacking out here in the desert. There was some interesting scenery in Vegas though…


----------



## KentInOttawa

> That makes sense Kent, then you wouldn't readjust the depth and make uneven chamfers from one edge to the side or back of a table/desk etc. you know you would never get the thing set right again to match them up.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


Rob Cosman has a video where he shows the 72 in action. Here's a link starting when he installs and sets the blade.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Look for a Radi-Plane if you're after making chamfers, Dave. They have both a round and a flat chamfer, and I picked up a pair for $40 on eBay a while back. Work okay…


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Kent is making the sale!!!

Dave, I want something that I can set the chamfer. Most of the wooden mounding planes are kind of a set distance. That jap plane and the 72 are all I've seen this far with adjustability.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Kent is making the sale!!!
> 
> Dave, I want something that I can set the chamfer. Most of the wooden mounding planes are kind of a set distance. That jap plane and the 72 are all I've seen this far with adjustability.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


Let me work on that. Not!

Just putting a pair of 45-degree blocks /guides/fences under almost any bench or block plane will achieve the same thing. If you can adjust the width (distance apart) of the fences, then you can adjust the width of the chamfer. There are several videos that all show how to achieve the same thing, just with some minor differences in execution.
1 2


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

No. 65 chamfer shave is out there as well.


----------



## HokieKen

Just scored this ebay lot for $21 shipped.









The Buck Rogers collection is complete!


----------



## drsurfrat

> The Buck Rogers collection is complete!
> - HokieKen


I want to see the Buck Rogers display case you come up with.


----------



## RWE

Yeah. Buck Rogers is complete, but you still don't have one of these. LOL


----------



## bandit571

Showed up at the downtown Antique Mall a few years ago…..$125 +tax….
decided I had better uses for that much cash…









This is still in that store…...









Same place I picked this coat hanger/dowel cutter at….$32.50


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Dang bandit. I would spend the $125 on that. I keep hoping one will pop up at an antique store near me but I'm not holding my breathe.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I just keep hoping and antique store will pop up near me. : )


> Dang bandit. I would spend the $125 on that. I keep hoping one will pop up at an antique store near me but I'm not holding my breathe.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


----------



## HokieKen

I just keep being glad I have electricity when it comes time to grind anything


----------



## Mosquito

Me too.

Speaking of which, anyone need a hand crank grinder in their life?


----------



## DevinT

Mos, I've been eyeing a hand crank grinder since I saw one used on the Woodwrights Shop a few weeks ago. Would be useful in restoring a plane blade that has a pitted edge that is a bit much for my sharpening stones to handle.


----------



## Mosquito

If you want it you can have it, I'll grab some pictures tonight if I can get out to the shop.

I used it for a while until I got an electric grinder and no longer lived in an apartment. It was nice to be able to slow it down to not make as much noise or mess. It's got a white Norton wheel on it I believe, (I know it's a white friable wheel, the part I'm not 100% on is if it's a Norton). I bought the wheel through Don W as he came across some at local (to him) flea markets more often than I did. I may still have the other more aggressive wheel for it too, if I dig. It has a clamp, and I always had it clamped to a scrap piece of 2×6, so I could just throw it on the bench with the holdfasts, nice and quick


----------



## Mosquito

And this is the only picture I have handy of it otherwise lol


----------



## DevinT

Mos, awesome! I live in a condominium where noise is also a concern. I can get away with routing wood, but chopping a mortise tends to be more annoying. So I tend to avoid banging with chisels outside of the weekends and I take all my gear to a friends house by the water to do my steelwork.


----------



## Mosquito

haha, funny, as I had the same qualms with mortises. I did a lot of pre-drilling and paring of mortises lol

Either that, or I would just pare the whole thing, basically paring a ramp that got steeper and steeper until I reached the other end and got it to vertical. I also did a surprising number of mortises by pre-drilling the end and then using the router plane lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hard to find an authentic iron for the No. 72 for much less than that, Bandit.


----------



## tshiker

> Devin, if your looking to resaw by hand regularly I'd suggest a frame saw and a kerfing plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mine is rather large, 48" cutting blade. Isaac Smith at Blackburn tools has three sizes available as kits.
> 
> Keven, I lust after one of those frame saws! One of these days!!
> 
> http://www.blackburntools.com/new-tools/new-saws-and-related/roubo-frame-saw-kit/index.html
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Smitty, you trying to make me jealous?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Absolutely not.


----------



## DevinT

Roubo resaw frame saw and kerfing plane pre-made from Bad Axe Tool Works, ready to go.

About $800 for both. I know what I'll be asking for on my birthday. ^_^


----------



## theoldfart

Tom, Isaac has excellent instructions and patterns. Considering the saw and plane were the first tools I've ever made I was quite happy with the results.


----------



## DevinT

Kevin, how much did it cost to put the two together using Isaac's patterns? I saw something about some custom parts that take 3-4 weeks, but didn't scope the entire cost.


----------



## bandit571

As soon as I am allowed to motivate a jointer plane…we have work to do…









Table for the new Gazebo…..this is to be the top of it…..got close..









They are 30" long….and the panel is right at 16" wide….figure a No. 7c can joint the edges a bit better…

Nice to look down at a saw cut…









"Reflections of…"

Yep, saw can indeed cut straight…









At least the saw's operator can…...

This weekend, I am finally allowed over the 10 pound limit on lifts….between lifting that #7c AND pushing it around, might get close to that limit…..Cardio for today was trimming 3 planks to length….planes can wait a day..


----------



## controlfreak

Don't over do it Bandit, we need you around here.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

You'll be past 10lbs pushing the 7 but at least it's a C!! A lot less friction.


----------



## DevinT

Do you even need to wax the sole of a C? Would it further reduce friction or just make a mess by getting wax in the grooves? Or maybe the grooves are to be a reservoir to make the sole self-waxing


----------



## theoldfart

Devin, the saw kit drilled and sharpened is $188 and the kerf plane is $63. Isaac has been unable to source the fence parts, I've gave up waiting and got a wooden threaded fence and retro fitted it. I used ash to make both. I didn't see any wait times on the two kits. You can always write to Isaac to check on availability.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…I suppose, since it is only 30" long….maybe a #6c, or a No. 15? Will have to see IF either are ready to go to work…..the #8 would be a bit of an overkill…..


----------



## Mosquito

> Do you even need to wax the sole of a C? Would it further reduce friction or just make a mess by getting wax in the grooves? Or maybe the grooves are to be a reservoir to make the sole self-waxing
> 
> - DevinT


Yes, it still helps considerably. I've not had a huge problem with was buildup in the grooves, but I guess I also don't smash the wax on my plane that hard either lol


----------



## Notw

> Do you even need to wax the sole of a C? Would it further reduce friction or just make a mess by getting wax in the grooves? Or maybe the grooves are to be a reservoir to make the sole self-waxing
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> Yes, it still helps considerably. I ve not had a huge problem with was buildup in the grooves, but I guess I also don t smash the wax on my plane that hard either lol
> 
> - Mosquito


I thought you were supposed to drip in on the bottom of the plane from a candle???? LOL


----------



## bandit571

> Do you even need to wax the sole of a C? Would it further reduce friction or just make a mess by getting wax in the grooves? Or maybe the grooves are to be a reservoir to make the sole self-waxing
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> Yes, it still helps considerably. I ve not had a huge problem with was buildup in the grooves, but I guess I also don t smash the wax on my plane that hard either lol
> 
> - Mosquito
> 
> I thought you were supposed to drip in on the bottom of the plane from a candle???? LOL
> 
> - Notw


THAT would involve fire in a woodshop…...much more easy to just rub the candle across the sole of the plane…


----------



## DevinT

Or install a beehive in your garage for a never-ending supply of beeswax (I actually use beeswax instead of paraffin)


----------



## sansoo22

I used the Paul Sellers rag in a can sprayed with CRC 3-36. Can sits in a holder in my tool well. When smoothing stock the plane never leaves my right hand. Wipe across rag in a can and go back to work.


----------



## corelz125

I think it's more of the operator cutting straight than the saw Bandit. Give me that saw to make that cut and it will be crooked, sideways, and beveled.


----------



## controlfreak

Ditto Bandit, one look at my cut and you will say "no point in putting a square on that"


----------



## DanKrager

I've taken a hankering for a set of "ballers". These little widgets put a rounded end upon a dowel. I walked past several opportunities years ago and now it's hard to find the set of three, 1/2", 3/4" and 1", let alone at a reasonable price.

Maybe I'll make my own.

Also wondered if anyone had ever dreamed up a "universal" gadget that can cut a range of radii from 1/4" to 1 1'2" or so.

DanK


----------



## bandit571

6 edges needed jointed. Weight Restrictions ended today….so..









1st edge. Plane?









Millers Falls No. 15, T-3…..much lighter than the Stanley No. 7c, Type 9…..









Then a dry fit….









Once the gaps and beveled edges were …gone









Half the "fun" was getting a squared edge…kept checking for fit…









No glue, just sitting there..top board is bowed a bit..cauls to remove..


----------



## DevinT

> Look for a Radi-Plane if you're after making chamfers, Dave. They have both a round and a flat chamfer, and I picked up a pair for $40 on eBay a while back. Work okay…
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


I had the roundover plane, didn't know they made a chamfer plane. Was your flat chamfer plane in Black Walnut? I just picked one up on eBay to complete my set.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Yeah, the flat chamfer is walnut, the round over is in… something lighter.


----------



## DevinT

Which one do you find you use more?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Looking good bandit!


----------



## DavePolaschek

I find I use the chamfer more often than the round over, but I still use a block plane most often, as I generally have that within reach on the bench.


----------



## sansoo22

Got my R7 in the mail today. The seller was kind enough to disassemble it for me. I really with they wouldn't do that. Or at least put all the hardware in a ziploc bag so I don't almost lose it and then have to crawl around on the floor looking for a small washer.









And turns out it was a Lakeside. Took a couple minutes on the wire wheel to get all the "gunk" off to even read the stamp in the iron. Was really hoping it was a Rockford stamped iron…oh well I've made worse mistakes.









Stay tuned for the restoration on this one. I have 4 type 18s to clear the rehab bench and then this big boy will go from crusty barn ass to near new condition.

Edit: I may do another blog write up on this one. Depends on the amount of time I have but I've been waiting for another butt ugly plane to do a write up with.


----------



## bandit571

That Millers Falls No. 15? Was $45 last year….came home painted a solid…..PURPLE….might have a before and after, around here somewhere….
This is for those that like a Marsh plane…

















As the Jumbo Jack came home..


















And…the paint was already flaking off?









Now there be 3 Jacks in a set No. 11, No. 14, and No. 15


----------



## bandit571

Something for Devin to look over..









I saw and held a Bedrock No. 603, today….then set it back down CAREFULLY..









And…..Stanley Handyman planes were priced at $58..for a #4 sized one..









The one beside that red handled 1960 Stanley No. 4….is a steel toad Worth plane by PEXTO…...$28?









Wrong knob?


----------



## DevinT

The odd looking shoulder plane appears to have a swivel handle that can be locked into vertical or horizontal, though that is a guess on what the metal rod above the toe is doing without being able to hold it in my hands.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Pretty sure those are nickers to make it a dado plane.


----------



## bandit571

These are what I brought home, today….$83 and change..









Stanley No. 4,









Type 20….$30…and…









Stanley No. 80….for $31 and change…..









Plus a couple $8 Brown & Sharpe, Co…..calipers…one inside, one outside….

Was a LONG day, today…..check-out line was 30 people long….


----------



## controlfreak

Nice score Bandit!


----------



## TedT2

My greatest score to this point was a Bedrock 603 that I got for $5….it was rusty but cleaned up great….it sold good…lol


----------



## RWE

Well I may have beaten Bandit today. It is pretty roached out, but should clean up. $20.00

Sargent VBM 1910-1918. Jack.



















Beauty and the beast. Same planes but one sure had a hard life.









I guess I will have to make a tote and knob. Knob should not be a problem. I have shaped saw handles, so I think I can pull off a rear tote. I hate putting new on old, so I may try to repair both.

This is for the saw forum, but I got this as well. Disston Dovetail saw, 1940-47 USA Medalion. $10.00


----------



## BlasterStumps

RWE, I think I see a difference in the lever caps of those two planes. Could by chance the dark colored one is off a transitional plane? Maybe you posted about it already and I just missed it.


----------



## RWE

> RWE, I think I see a difference in the lever caps of those two planes. Could by chance the dark colored one is off a transitional plane? Maybe you posted about it already and I just missed it.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


I will check into it. I have no reason to think the Black one is not original to the plane. I don't know if they made a transitional plane with VBM on the lever cap? It is hard to see in the picture, but VBM is under Sargent on both planes.

I just cleaned up the Beast a bit with the Porter Cable Restorer and the Scotchbrite drum. Patina is a kind word. The Beast should make a decent user, but it will show a lot of patina. Letting some WD-40 work on the frog screws now.

I will have to check Don W.'s site, but I thought the color on the Beauty was period correct. I bought it with the lever cap painted. I cleaned it up and put on the same color on the lever cap as I put on the "japan" on the bottom.

The Beast has a nice polished finish on its lever cap after the Restorer knocked off the rust coating.


----------



## donwilwol

The black vbm cap (assuming it's original) is not a transitional. Sargent made a few planes with japanned caps. I've never found out why, they're somewhat rare, and span a couple type periods.


----------



## bandit571

These 2 stayed put…..$28 for a steel frog/toad…plus a whale tale…









Not the style of plane I like…









This one is missing a few parts?









Small stuff….









Only half there…









Watch your step…









Wrong knob?









IF you need to find just the right sized screwdriver, nutdriver, and/or socket….he might just have it…..









Saws, anyone…..









Hmmmm….









Disston on the left, Simmonds on the right..









IF a plane is inside a glass case….don't ask how much…









Have to get just the right angle…









Was one of them kind of days…..


----------



## DevinT

I wish there were places like that around here


----------



## corelz125

The 603s seem to be like lumber lately. Prices just keep going up and up


----------



## sansoo22

A couple new additions to go with the old #32.

The #30 needs resoled. Thanks in part to TERRIBLE packaging leading to a large chip but also its just beat up. Thinking of going two tone style and shaving a good half inch off and replacing with walnut. Do like a box joint seam to hold the two parts together.

The #26 was an ebay steal in my opinion. Most of the waterslide decal still on it and it cost $55 bucks. I've seen a lot worse go for a lot more so its a win in my book. The body and mouth on this one are AMAZING. I will probably restore the handles and metal parts and simply shellac or lacquer the body in a nice semi gloss to protect that Stanley decal.


----------



## HokieKen

A couple of new friends were waiting when I got home from vacation last night


----------



## bandit571

Couple were working, today….









And…they left a big mess….


----------



## DevinT

> Yeah, the flat chamfer is walnut, the round over is in… something lighter.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


The lighter one is Rock Maple (aka Hard Maple). I checked the manual that came with mine.


----------



## DevinT

2 new radi planes acquired. I love the look of the Walnut on the flat chamfer one.


----------



## RWE

Hokie: 
I thought about you and your Millers Falls thing when I saw this. Started to buy it because it had a very clean and unused appearance.



















The I looked at the price tag. $35.00. The tag stated "extremely rare Millers Fall hammer". Maybe so, but to my mind it was not $35.00 worth of rarity. Did I err?

Then another vendor wanted $25 for this weird Stanley "Caliper". I don't see how it can be a caliper but maybe it is. Anybody who knows what it is and what it used for, please explain.


----------



## DevinT

Perhaps this image can better illustrate how it can be used as a caliper


----------



## DevinT

It's a Stanley No 36 folding ruler and caliper.

Here is one on eBay


----------



## RWE

Thanks Devin. I guess I get it now, but I think $25 was a bit steep for it. I wanted the hammer. I bought a good Stanley hammer a while back and enjoy using it. A good clean period hammer is hard to come by, but again, it was overpriced.

I did come up with a very nice P. S. & W 8 inch drawknife (Peck Stowe and Wilcox). The blade feels like you could shave with it. I actually think that it is unused. I will post some pictures of it later. It was the kind of deal that makes you feel lucky with a price of $22.00. The fact that it had the P. S. & W. logo and not Pextco in the oval, means it was made between 1870 and 1914. Based on the condition of the blade, i figure it probably dates from the early 1900's.


----------



## HokieKen

Hard pass on both of those at those prices for me too RWE. Millers Falls hammers are not hard to come by and can be had for less than $25 on ebay all day including shipping.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Sometimes the days and nights were long but I had lofty ambitions and traveled to great heights when I wore a pair of those things hanging to the left of that MF hammer. Well, maybe not that particular brand though. : )


----------



## HokieKen

I'm guessing something for climing Mike?


----------



## DevinT

The item hanging to the left of the hammer doesn't look like anything climbing related to me. I honestly have no idea what Mike is saying.


----------



## bandit571

Telephone pole climbers, for one…....and, tree toppers for another…....Used along with a wide leather belt, can climb up and down poles and trees…...


----------



## BlasterStumps

They are a pair of lineman's pole climbing gaffs. We didn't have bucket trucks for a big part of my time in the trade so we did everything off the wood.

Tree gaffs usually have much larger spikes.


----------



## DevinT

Ah, I was thinking of outdoor climbing, not industrial on-the-job climbing. Kept thinking to myself "those could be crampons but I've never seen any that looked like that."


----------



## bandit571

West Liberty, Ohio..Village wide garage sales today…...spent $8..









$1 Keyhole saw, $1.00 1/4" chisel, $1.00 Driver handle….the rest went to a plane..









Low knob, has a No. 3 up in front..









A very solid sole….









Iron has a "V" logo stamped into it…









3 patent dates, and a frog adjuster…..handles are rosewood…appears to be a Stanley No. 3, Type 11 =$5.00

Picked a $2 D-8 yesterday…..not too bad of a weekend?

Having a Guinness Extra Stout to cool down…..79 degrees outside, right now….busy morning..


----------



## DevinT

NICE! I love T-11's. Great score, bandit.


----------



## BlasterStumps

DevinT, here is a basically untouched No 2 Type 11 (I believe). You need it. : )


----------



## DevinT

It's so pretty!


----------



## BlasterStumps

DevinT, here's the logo on the blade:


----------



## DevinT

Wow, pristine!


----------



## Lazyman

I paid more than $8. The entire pile cost me $100 but but I still feel like I made off like a Bandit.










Because the Stanley #92 is smaller than the others it was only $5.


----------



## Lazyman

I've got a how-to question for the group. Just for grins, I decided to see if I could make a new cap iron for a crappy old plane of unknown make or age that was ground down to a nub sometime in its past.
Old is second from right and the new WIP is second from left. I used the Stanley and Dunlap as templates. 









The plane actually works pretty well, all things considered, but with the cap being so short, it does have problems from time to time and I am thinking about converting it over to a scrub plane. I may remove the lever from the old one and my question is how are the rub plates that protects the chip break from the lever cam attached to the back? It sort of looks like a one sided rivet, if there is such a thing, but this one actually looks like there is some solder or something in there? Anyone ever fixed one of these that came off or was missing? Any tips?


----------



## bandit571

The No.3 is now making shavings..









From a Pine test track..









And the logo on the iron….









Took about 90 minutes to rehab….









had to pry the dang frog off the base…..


----------



## adot45

Double post deleted.


----------



## adot45

Nice finds guys, and nice job on the #3 Bandit. Beautiful #2 Blaster, gotta love those 11's I overpaid compared to you guys but still feel like I got a deal….a E C Stearns scraper (?) not cleaned up yet but that's what it looks like, and a Sargent 408 I guess a type 5 according to the hourglass shape of the brass on the knob and tote bolts.


----------



## ac0rn

> This morning a serendipitous opportunity presented itself. Planes, saws, with the manual grinders thrown in. $350. All irons appear sharp, and saws as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lie-Nielson 102, Stanley # s 60, 78, 80, 4, 7, Woodriver #5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ulmia 60mm Frame saw, Grammercy Tools Frame saw, 3 Veritas, 3 Disston, 1 ??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I intend to keep the Ulmia saw, and Large Veritas saws, everything else will need to go.
> If there is any interest send a pm. It will go CL or Eb in a few weeks
> 
> - Jeff


Well I did sell the LN102, Woodriver#5, and the Stanley#4 via EB and net 345. So everything else only cost $5. Does that mean they can all qualify for the santa swap?


----------



## corelz125

$5 for a #92 I say that was the deal for the day


----------



## HokieKen

Yep me too. I had Mos hunting me one at his MWTCA meet today for $50 and he couldn't find me one :-(

Nathan, I feel like those springs are just riveted on the lever caps but I'm not sure. I'll pull one out and look later and see if I can find anything else. It's possible they silver soldered the rivets in to prevent cracking the cast iron from driving them in.


----------



## sansoo22

These are all I came across today. Won't even work in my bench but they were really clean and shiny still so I snagged them.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Nathan, if you want the cap-iron from a Stanley Global #3 like this one I could drop one in the mail for you on Monday. I parted out one of my cheap Global #3s and that's one of the pieces I haven't needed to reuse.

As for how they're attached, I would cast the cap-iron with a nub sticking out there, and then rivet it over after putting on the rub-plate.


----------



## Lazyman

> Nathan, I feel like those springs are just riveted on the lever caps but I'm not sure. I'll pull one out and look later and see if I can find anything else. It's possible they silver soldered the rivets in to prevent cracking the cast iron from driving them in.
> 
> - HokieKen


Could it be that they attach the spring with a hammer drive screw? It would have to be a pretty short one as it will be 3/8" thick before I shape it.


----------



## HokieKen

Peening cast iron is a trick I'd love to see Dave ;-)

Sansoo, Dibs!


----------



## HokieKen

> Nathan, I feel like those springs are just riveted on the lever caps but I'm not sure. I'll pull one out and look later and see if I can find anything else. It's possible they silver soldered the rivets in to prevent cracking the cast iron from driving them in.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> Could it be that they attach the spring with a hammer drive screw? It would have to be a pretty short one as it will be 3/8" thick before I shape it.
> 
> - Lazyman


Definitely. That's the most likely method IMO but it doesn't explain the
solder/braze on yours.


----------



## Lazyman

On closer inspection, it could just be where the head of the drive screw just flattened out under whatever tool they used to set it? Perhaps the tool actually forms the head as it is hammered in.

I've obviously never used one of these. How hard are they to set properly. Of course the cap I am replacing never had one so I guess it may not be necessary.


----------



## HokieKen

Not hard at all Nathan. Just tap it in with a hammer. Just be sure you drill the hole the right size and you won't have any problems.


----------



## Mosquito

Yup, I struck out on Kenny's list, but since I didn't have a list of my own I just came home with whatever caught my eye in my budget.

This was my haul. All Keen Kutter, except the Walker Turner tablesaw throat plate. Little more than bandits $1, but I'm ok with that up here lol










Overall, it was just good to get back out and reconnect with people again


----------



## sansoo22

Nice finds Mos. A couple of those planes I didn't even know were offered by Keen Kutter. Had I known you were going I would have put a knob for a KK5 on your list.


----------



## corelz125

Keen Kutter rabbet plane and scrub?


----------



## Lazyman

> Nathan, if you want the cap-iron from a Stanley Global #3 like this one I could drop one in the mail for you on Monday. I parted out one of my cheap Global #3s and that's one of the pieces I haven't needed to reuse.
> 
> As for how they're attached, I would cast the cap-iron with a nub sticking out there, and then rivet it over after putting on the rub-plate.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Thanks Dave. I am still in the mode of seeing if I can make it work. If I cannot get this one to work as needed, I will let you know.

The cap that I am replacing never had a spring/rub plate but where it would be attached there is a dimple cast into it presumably to locate where to drill a hole for the hammer screw.


----------



## Mosquito

> Keen Kutter rabbet plane and scrub?
> 
> - corelz125


Yup, K10-1/2 and K240 respectively. I paid a fair bit less for the 10-1/2 than most Stanley's go for, despite being made by Stanley and more rare, so I was happy with that. I'd been passively looking at 10-1/2s for a while, so finding this one was nice. Bundled it with the KK tool cabinet metal badge and two of the pictures/ads, which he basically threw in for free. As we were catching up afterwards he handed me the diamond edge one on top of it to boot. I've bought stuff from him a couple times over the years, he and his wife are good fun, and generous. Gave my buddy a free carpenters square last time we had one (Oct 2019), and we didn't even buy anything from them that time.



> Nice finds Mos. A couple of those planes I didn t even know were offered by Keen Kutter. Had I known you were going I would have put a knob for a KK5 on your list.
> 
> - sansoo22


I didn't see many KK specific parts, but could have dug a little more through the general parts that were there. Not a ton, but a few totes and knobs. Though the guy with the most loose parts also wanted $10 for a #45 slitter iron, so I would guess he would probably want $30+ for a KK/Ohio knob


----------



## sansoo22

That's been my luck finding non stanley parts lately. If I can find them they cost almost as much as I paid for the plane. The knob on my KK5 is still in tact but it has a TON of hairline cracks in it. In my experience those tend to get worse once you've released the pressure by taking the handle off. You don't notice it until you've spent time finishing and then put it back on though.

Maybe I will learn a new skill and mix up some epoxy resin, thin it with some DNA, and dip the handle a few times. Chuck i up in a drill and sand the epoxy skin off.


----------



## corelz125

Don't see those 2 very often and usually come along with a heavy price tag.

Go for the epoxy Sansoo or if they're that small try some ca glue.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Here's a millers falls 07 I picked up at an auction for 22.00. It still has an original (I assume) price sticker from the local hardware store on it for 6.89! It is in super clean condition with minimal use. I bought it as a user but can't bring myself to use it…


----------



## BlasterStumps

The weak spot on some of those skew blocks seems to be the lever cap just back of the screw.

DustyD, I wouldn't use it either. : ) What a great score!


----------



## HokieKen

I would use it


----------



## theoldfart

My 140 is my apron-go-to plane. Except if I'm not wearing an apron, then it's in my pocket!


----------



## Mosquito

I'm still debating what to do about a skew block. I want one, but can't decide what I want to do. Technically I have a 140 somewhere, but it was poorly repaired so the front is not even close to co-planar with the back, and missing the knob and side plate. Though I don't think I care about the side plate, as I'd use it as a skew rabbet most I imagine



> Don t see those 2 very often and usually come along with a heavy price tag.
> 
> - corelz125


Usually, yeah. For everything I got, I was only in it for $210 including the $10 registration fee  I've sold more than that recently, so I'm calling it a win lol


----------



## Thedustydutchman

My plan was to use it mostly as a skew rabbet as well. But once I got it in my hands and saw the original tag still on it….I just couldn't put it to work. So, for the time being its a display piece. Oh well, I dont need a skew rabbet that bad anyway lol


----------



## DavePolaschek

Huh. In a previous swap I made a skew rabbet plane (without even having a shop). I believe I have all the pieces parts to make another, but none of Mos, Dusty, or Kenny are in the plane swap…

[sad trombone]

Oh well. I'm actually pretty happy with my Veritas skew block plane. It cleans up almost every rabbet I cut, which is ten rabbets per Jefferson bookcase, so it's done about 600 rabbets in the past year. Guess I should sharpen it one of these days.


----------



## HokieKen

My MF07 is my go-to block plane too. I used to have a 140 without the side plate and it got used a lot too. Can't say either is any better than the other. The Millers Falls is just more at home in my shop ;-)


----------



## corelz125

That's not a bad price for all of that Mos.


----------



## Mosquito

see, I think I opened a can of worms… Where I had previously been resisting buying the Stanley made K series Keen Kutter planes, I've just bought 3 lol


----------



## sansoo22

Vintage Stanley 130 Skewed Rabbet Block Plane anyone? On the fleaBay for the low low asking price $199.99!!!

Seriously though who doesn't search "Stanley 130" on either Google to know its not a skewed rabbet plane or eBay to see they sell for like 10 dollars.

I've been on the hunt for a good 140 for awhile now. Doing some rust hunting next weekend for my birthday so maybe I will get lucky and find one.


----------



## Johnny7

> Vintage Stanley 130 Skewed Rabbet Block Plane anyone? On the fleaBay for the low low asking price $199.99!!!
> 
> Seriously though who doesn t search "Stanley 130" on either Google to know its not a skewed rabbet plane or eBay to see they sell for like 10 dollars.
> 
> I ve been on the hunt for a good 140 for awhile now. Doing some rust hunting next weekend for my birthday so maybe I will get lucky and find one.
> 
> - sansoo22


The seller fails to mention a massive crack running from the mouth up the sidewall-it appears to be all the way through. The mouth is also chipped.

I took the liberty of enlarging and enhancing an image from the listing:










I have seen many of these with cracks, but they typically are found originating from the cross bar (where the screw head is in the sidewall)


----------



## corelz125

That's a funny looking skew on that skewed block plane. I wonder if it's skewed on both ends?


----------



## Lazyman

It probably cracked when the straightened out the skew.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Vintage Stanley 130 Skewed Rabbet Block Plane anyone? On the fleaBay for the low low asking price $199.99!!!
> 
> Seriously though who doesn t search "Stanley 130" on either Google to know its not a skewed rabbet plane or eBay to see they sell for like 10 dollars.
> 
> I ve been on the hunt for a good 140 for awhile now. Doing some rust hunting next weekend for my birthday so maybe I will get lucky and find one.
> 
> - sansoo22


My starting assumption for anything on eBay is that the seller does not know what they have or what they are talking about. Then, if they prove me wrong, I am pleasantly surprised. Also, sometimes sellers just add words that they've heard used together in the hopes that it gets trapped in more searches, e.g. Soviet Hand Rabbet Plane Vtg Wood Jointer Jack Planer USSR Smoothing Iron Tool. I consider the latter case to be somewhat unethical and haven't bought any of them yet, whereas I consider ignorance to be unavoidable and actually count on it because these are the same people that would list Grandpa's 604 as an old "hand shaver", a "plainer" or a "planner" for $10 because it is dirty.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

I've picked up a few of those "hand shaver" deals. One of my No5s was one. Every once in a while I get lucky


----------



## DevinT

My favorite was a Stanley listed as a "Stack-On"

Or a C559B listed as O5598 because they were unable to read carefully.


----------



## bandit571

Guess I over-paid for that Stanley No. 3, Type 11…....seems they were $2.10 when brand new…..and here I paid $5?

One thing I tend to like going to…..Village-wide Garage Sale Weekends…..if you don't mind putting a mile or three on the LPCs…...( Leather Personnel Carriers).....


----------



## Mosquito

Down by the cabin they have a "100 mile garage sale" every spring, that goes roughly around Lake Pepin. I've never done the whole tour, as that would be a long time lol But there are always quite a few near us, so we often hit up a number of them. One in particular usually has a lot of stuff, and a mini donut truck


----------



## bandit571

1st weekend in August…..World's Longest Yard Sale…...around her it goes down Rt 127…Celina,OH to Greenville,OH is usually about long enough…...thinking they might have it again….this year…


----------



## Notw

> These are all I came across today. Won t even work in my bench but they were really clean and shiny still so I snagged them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - sansoo22


These are super cool, I didn't even know that Stanley had made bench dogs. Very nice find.


----------



## sansoo22

> These are super cool, I didn t even know that Stanley had made bench dogs. Very nice find.
> 
> - Notw


I had no idea they existed either until I found them. One of those occasions where i forgot to even attempt to haggle on price. Just grabbed up the stops and handed over my money.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

What size are the shafts on those Sansoo?

Pretty cool!!


----------



## sansoo22

They are 22/32" at measured at the spring clippy thing. So my guess is they are intended for 5/8" dog holes. My new bench im planning may have to have some 5/8" holes strategically located to make use of these.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I definitely would if I were you. Excellent find.


----------



## Mosquito

If they were mine, I'd probably have a couple of 5/8" dog holes down at the end to use them as bench stops, they look like they would be ideal for that too.

I like my 3/4" dog holes because that means I can use my holdfasts in them as well


----------



## HokieKen

> If they were mine, I d probably have a couple of 5/8" dog holes down at the end to use them as bench stops, they look like they would be ideal for that too.
> 
> I like my 3/4" dog holes because that means I can use my holdfasts in them as well
> 
> - Mosquito


My thoughts exactly. I thought they were planing stops to fit in 3/4" dog holes initially. I wouldn't put a bunch of 5/8" holes but I would put a couple at the end too.

I recend my "dibs" since they aren't for 3/4" holes. You may keep them ;-)


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I would totally take them and do exactly what Mos said. Perfect for that.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Huh. My holdfasts are 5/8. Dibs!


----------



## rad457

I kinda like my Veritas Prairie Dogs, only problem can't pull them out and put in hold fasts?


----------



## HokieKen

According to Lee Valley you can Andre:

When used in a through hole, the dog sits on a steel plate that is screwed to the underside of the work top; a strong rare-earth magnet at the base of the dog holds it firmly against the plate. To free up the hole for other duty, the plate is easily pivoted out of the way, and the dog removed


----------



## HokieKen

Know what really chaps my ass? Ebay pics where the seller doesn't get the exposure even in the right ballpark. If you upload 10 pics and I still can't tell whether the adjuster nut is brass or steel, you suck.


----------



## HokieKen

I know it's off topic… again…. but. When I was on the hunt for a 1950 Buck Rogers brace, at least a few of you mentioned that you had one. Just curious if anyone has, or has ever seen, one that had a red ratchet-selector like this one?









I don't really need another one but I'm wondering if it's some kind of variant that I should grab anyway. I've never seen another on ebay and can't find any mention of it anywhere else online.


----------



## bandit571

Keep it plane oriented…









While I go look for my No. 1950…..



























And..we now return you to our regularly scheduled programming….









Millers Falls No. 15


----------



## HokieKen

That's how mine, and every other one I've ever seen, are too Bandit. Knurled steel.


----------



## Notw

I have a red paint marker


----------



## rad457

> According to Lee Valley you can Andre:
> 
> When used in a through hole, the dog sits on a steel plate that is screwed to the underside of the work top; a strong rare-earth magnet at the base of the dog holds it firmly against the plate. To free up the hole for other duty, the plate is easily pivoted out of the way, and the dog removed
> 
> - HokieKen


LOL! only problem is the front 12" of my bench is about 5" thick, would need to put in plugs, not worth the hassle
Back part is over 3" close but still a little to deep.


----------



## HokieKen

> I have a red paint marker
> 
> - Notw


I wondered about that at first. But on close inspection, I'm confident that piece is actually Tennite. It has the tell-tale white residue from the plasticizer separating. I don't really like the look of it but if it's the only known example of some kind of early production or prototype model, I think I should have it


----------



## Notw

ok in my exhaustive research, 5 minutes on google, i have found one on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/324641695442?mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5337379999&toolid=10001&mkevt=1

bonus points to me for a super long link

also not sure if you have seen this or if it is real but it is a red handled corner brace


----------



## Ocelot

I think you should have it too, Ken.

You know, a few years ago, I bought a batch of about 5 MF braces for about $10 on eBay. I'll have to look and see if any are red. I don't think so.


----------



## Ocelot

> Know what really chaps my ass? Ebay pics where the seller doesn t get the exposure even in the right ballpark. If you upload 10 pics and I still can t tell whether the adjuster nut is brass or steel, you suck.
> 
> - HokieKen


The probem is full-auto cameras and careless choice of background. If you put a handplane on a white towel and take pictures with an auto camera with a lot of towel and a little bit of plane in the view, the exposure will be set for the towel and the plane will be way dark.

Take the same plane and put it on a walnut table and you get a completely different exposure.

I love ebay listings with lousy photos. Some of my best bargains have come from that. Nobody can see what the thing is and so they don't bid.

A few years ago in a listing - this one only photo… I bought the lot for I think about $30 + shipping.

Six Old Things.










Bailey No 4C, Type 11.










... and a Miller Falls No. 1 spokeshave.

... and a Stanley No. 80 cabinet scraper (old version, in seems to be factory Red paint.)


----------



## HokieKen

> ok in my exhaustive research, 5 minutes on google, i have found one on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/324641695442?mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5337379999&toolid=10001&mkevt=1
> 
> bonus points to me for a super long link
> 
> also not sure if you have seen this or if it is real but it is a red handled corner brace
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Notw


That ebay listing is the one I was referring to ;-)

And that corner brace is painted wood, not a Buck Rogers tool with Tennite. So not for me ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

I picked that Millers Falls spokeshave out of the photo right away Paul  I have never bought one but always keep an eye open. It doesn't seem like something I would use very much but a whole lot of people seem to like them an awful lot.


----------



## Ocelot

I have 2 of them now, but still haven't used one. Sharpening is tricky.


----------



## Lazyman

> I know it s off topic… again…. but. When I was on the hunt for a 1950 Buck Rogers brace, at least a few of you mentioned that you had one. Just curious if anyone has, or has ever seen, one that had a red ratchet-selector like this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don t really need another one but I m wondering if it s some kind of variant that I should grab anyway. I ve never seen another on ebay and can t find any mention of it anywhere else online.
> 
> - HokieKen


The red looks different to me. Probably 3D printed by some clown. ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Just found a blurb on oldtoolheaven :

*The No. 1950 was nickel plated, equipped with toothless alligator jaws and available only with the standard ten inch sweep. The brace was manufactured through at least 1981 with some of the later production sporting plastic ring shifters.
*

So nevermind. I don't need a brace that was produced after I was ;-)


----------



## sansoo22

> I love ebay listings with lousy photos. Some of my best bargains have come from that. Nobody can see what the thing is and so they don't bid.
> 
> -Ocelot


Its sometimes a gamble and I've been burned a few times but the good deals I've gotten from bad pics or bad angles of the pics far outweighs the bad purchases. You really have to know what you're looking for though. I picked up a Type 11 #3 for $35 shipped off ebay not long ago. Never once had a pic of the patent dates or mentioned its type in the listing. Short ribs on the frog and shape of the lever on the cap is all I had to go off of. I took a gamble and sure enough its a 100% complete type 11.


----------



## corelz125

Usually if they list the type it is. You don't get it for a deal of a price. I got a #8 once that was listed as a block plane.


----------



## Mosquito

That's how I got my Stanley #10 for $60, it was listed as "An unmarked bench plane" with pretty poor photos . It cleaned up really well though.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Usually if they list the type it is. You don t get it for a deal of a price. I got a #8 once that was listed as a block plane.
> 
> - corelz125


IME, this is even more true when they get the Type wrong.


----------



## bandit571

A Type 11, Stanley No. was put to work, today..









Had a couple spots in the Ash top that needed fine tuned…flat


----------



## drsurfrat

There was mention of L Bailey Victor planes earlier . Here's one I have never seen. Wow. A regular bench plane with one side rabbet, including the nicker! Called a Number 11?


----------



## HokieKen

That's pretty cool Mike. Let's see what that sucker sells for


----------



## HokieKen

Is anyone here interested in a Type 13 #6 with a hanger hole drilled in the heel and broken horn on the tote? It's in a lot with another plane I want. Trying to figure out what to offer for the lot…


----------



## DLK

*Kenny* FYI here is a 1950 Buck rodgers with a barber chuck.










Only one I have seen. Cost me $2.


----------



## HokieKen

Interesting Don. I've never seen one before either and don't see any mention of that variant on oldtoolheaven either. Great price too


----------



## HokieKen

> There was mention of L Bailey Victor planes earlier . Here s one I have never seen. Wow. A regular bench plane with one side rabbet, including the nicker! Called a Number 11?
> 
> - drsurfrat


I guess some other people thought it was cool too…


----------



## corelz125

The price on that thing rose faster than the price of dimensional lumber


----------



## bandit571

May have to refresh an edge…









And give this a good run…..push…or….pull?


----------



## HokieKen

I switch it up Bandit. Gets too tiring doing on or the other for very long. I'll stand up and push for a but then pull up a stool to lean on while I pull for a while.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Gee, and I thought I was in new territory when I made my left and rights. Looks like the idea has been around for a long time and I didn't even know it.


----------



## bandit571

Gave the Stanley #80 a try out, today….









After the corners had been rounded…









Had a couple spots needing a bit extra work..









Push and pull both….corners? Lay out a curved line, new belt in the beltsander, sand until the line is gone..


----------



## RWE

I wanted to give Mos a shout out and thank you. Just got his donor (Stanley I think) transitional plane in the mail. I am going to use it to do the JayT Transitional Infill Shooting plane build.


----------



## Notw

New plane to rehab. Stanley Bailey no 4-1/2 smooth bottom, best I can tell it is a type 16 made between 1933 and 1941. Put in the electrolysis tank last night, hopefully it isn't hiding any secrets under the years of grime.


----------



## HokieKen

Very nice Notw. That's my favorite size plane


----------



## Notw

we'll see if I agree after I get it tuned up, it will have to be on it's A game to dethrone my 5-1/4 as favorite plane size


----------



## Mosquito

4-1/2 was my favorite once I got one as well. However that was replaced by 5-1/2 once I got that one :-D But I'm also weird, I like using my #6 as a smoother too…


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I just got a 4 1/2 after not having one for awhile and I like it but was searching for a 4 1/2 or 5 1/2 and I might prefer a 5 1/2 just for the extra mass. So I might need to get one of those too. Just for smoothers.


----------



## Mosquito

When I decided to start getting rid of my Stanley's, the #5-1/2 was probably the one I wanted to get rid of least lol I've got my KK5-1/2, but still :-D

Then I got the #8 from Sansoo and got it tuned up… maybe I should use that as my smoother just for the ridiculousness lol


----------



## HokieKen

My 4-1/2 is setup as a smoother but occasionally does light jack duty. The 5-1/2 basically serves as the final jointer for me most of the time. Occasionally I'll grab a 6 or 7 size but rarely.


----------



## Mosquito

my workflow is a little more oddball… #8 if I'm jointing, #6 if it's small stock, #6 does smoothing duties, unless I use the #3 lol


----------



## HokieKen

My 3 and 4 rarely come out of the till anymore at all. And I recently got my first #8 which I haven't gotten into service yet so we'll see if I use it much. I do need to give my bench a re-flattening soon so it'll at least see duty on that  I used to prefer the #6 for jointing smaller stock but for some reason I grab the 5-1/2 instead these days.


----------



## sansoo22

I have a Type 10 #7 that is setup similar to a smoother because the mouth was cut too narrow to get it open any farther. I set the frog co-planer to the body and that's just how it works now. I will not even consider fixing it after using it though. It makes for a pretty crap jointer but the PEREFECT tool for flattening. I actually refer to it as my flattener. I gotta say having a plane addiction…there I admitted it…does have its benefits. Instead of changing a plane setup just grab the one you have setup for the task at hand.


----------



## Ocelot

I bet your Type 10 #7 looks better than mine. I'll have to look at the mouth and see if mine is narrow too.


----------



## Mosquito

It's your finishing jointer lol

Kenny, I used my #5-1/2 for jointing small pieces all the time too. I basically used it for everything if I'm honest.


----------



## DevinT

So far I've used my No 8 a total of 4 times and it is a dream. One time, I had to remove 1/8th of material and I thought to myself, hmmm, let's NOT get out the surfacing jig and just see how well I can do with the No 8 alone. Let me tell you, it was fast, fun, and delicious! When I started to get close to the scribe lines, I pulled out the winding sticks and Starrett ruler to check for flatness. With the blade fully serviced, I didn't even have to pull out the smoother afterward. I know that the Veritas smoother could have improved the surface further, but this was a glue face that nobody was going to see but me anyways. The glue-up between two faces flattened by the No 8 was quite nice. Even before glue-up, all the air was squished out between them just holding them together with your hands, giving that super satisfying suction/spring effect when you slowly clap them in slow motion. It just makes me want to use hand tools more often.

Of course, I don't have anything in-between a 4 and an 8, so the 8 comes out pretty often because there are a lot of things that are just too big for a 4 to flatten without substituting a boat-load of effort and constantly spot-planing, and checking, ad-nauseam. I don't mind, as I am building muscle-tone for the 8 which actually feels pretty light (2 things: I used to, pre-COVID, bowl in a bowling league and used a 13 lb ball, so the No 8 is light by comparison, and secondly I don't pick the plane up when pulling it back in-between passes), which means that when I get something smaller for efficiency sake (nobody likes diving off the end of a piece of stock because the plane is too long), that No 5, 5 1/2, 6, or 7 will feel very light indeed.


----------



## RWE

I have two main uses for my planes and I have several set up for those particular uses.

I take air dried bandsawn lumber and prep it for power equipment. Winding sticks and Jack Planes for the larger boards. When it comes to edge jointing, I use the 608 or the 607. I also finish the "pre-leveling" of a board with the 7 and 8. I favor the eight because of the heft and length. I have a new to me 4 1/2 that will get involved in this as well. So the Jacks are used planing the board at 45 degree angles across the width to knock down cupping issues and the jointers work to level out the jack tracks along the length. I am trying to get a board that is 6 inches wide or less ready for the benchtop jointer or is it is a wider board, ready for the reference side of passing it though the 13 inch planner. (Note Chris Schwarz has a nice video on this process)

Help is on the way. My woodworking friend has a 20 inch wide jointer/planner combo (spiral head) that will arrive in December, so I expect to be able to use that for the wider stock. However, even with that, you can save a lot of wood by doing the the pre-leveling/flattening process by hand.

I like Jacks and use them a lot for this reason. Some have been set up with a nice radius curve on the iron for that 45 degree work. Others are set up as smoothers once you get through hogging down the wood.

I suppose if you don't work from raw lumber the whole Jack thing is not that important??

Second process is working with small parts for boxes. That involves blocks, 3's and 4's for the most part. I really like a 3 as a smoother for that work.

Where I seem to differ is that I don't see much use for a 6, and I have a couple of good ones.

So I suppose that what you prefer has a lot to do with how much power equipment you own and what type of stock you are working with. I respect the Jack and I actually really like them.


----------



## HokieKen

My #5 is essentially my scrub and foreplane all rolled into one. I'll take raw stock down until I get full length shavings then I switch to something longer to joint it then a smoother. It never does any jointing or smoothing for me. It's too narrow to suit me for jointing and too long to suit me for smoothing. So it does all the crap work ;-)


----------



## RWE

> My #5 is essentially my scrub and foreplane all rolled into one. I ll take raw stock down until I get full length shavings then I switch to something longer to joint it then a smoother. It never does any jointing or smoothing for me. It s too narrow to suit me for jointing and too long to suit me for smoothing. So it does all the crap work ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


That is why it is a Jack. *Jack of all trades and master of none.* If you only could have two planes, #4 and #5. I think that was the paradigm (historically) across the country with workers and households having a lot of 4's and 5's. Once your skill level increased or your job required it, you got the Jointers. I think most folks would have had a block plane as well. I am saying this based on what I find at flea markets and antique stores and from what I have read.

Respect the Jack or be a Jack*. LOL


----------



## bandit571

Jack of all trades at work…









Jumbo Jack as a jointer….


----------



## DevinT

I can't decide if the most pleasurable thing in the World is pulling shavings so thin that they stick to you or that the most annoying thing in the World is trying to constantly shake loose those shavings.


----------



## bandit571

Or…when they shoot up out of the plane, and promptly wrap around your wrist?


----------



## DevinT

That's fun too. I've had that happen. You have to stop and fight the thing which acts like those 1980's slap bracelets.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Move to the desert, Devin. Even thick shavings will stick to you down here.


----------



## RWE

On the idea of shavings: I love the feel of wood on wood with a good full wooden plane or a transitional, but boy, it is hard to clear the shavings out of those deep pockets. That is one way that metal planes are far superior, plus they don't tend to wear out.


----------



## sansoo22

This is cheating because its Redwood but that sure was a fun day jointing a half dozen 8 ft 1×4s. I'm sure I took far more shavings than needed but 8 ft long whispy thin curls is just too much fun not to.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Out and about this afternoon to do some rust hunting. Went to antiques place in a neighboring town and my wife spotted this plane on a table with a couple others and pointed it out to me. It looked like it was basically unused until somebody decided to use it as a paint scraper. They hit some metal of some kind chipping the blade on both corners and that looks to have been the extent of use. The japanning is pretty much all on it still.














































I'll put a new bevel edge on the blade, sharpen it up, clean it all up and try it out.

Also grabbed a Wards Master 78 style. It is missing the depth stop but I have one. My most favorite 78 style is probably the same brand so I have high hopes for this one.


----------



## adot45

Very nice find Blaster, can't wait to see that type 11 cleaned up. The wood looks to be in very nice shape!


----------



## sansoo22

Had a wonderful birthday with the family today. They seem to know exactly what I like or my girlfriend just takes me to my favorite tool dealer and lets me picking things out.









A couple non-matching side rabbet planes but I'm not complaining. I've wanted a set for a few years now.









This is the one my GF let me pick out. A complete Stanley 140. This things is amazing with 95% or better on all finishes









Not plane related but still pretty…the Miller Falls 120A









Look how clean those gears are









And again not plane related but still cool…a Benchmade 560 series EDC.


----------



## HokieKen

An excellent haul Sansoo! I have a 120 that's been in the to-do rehab pile for well over 5 years now. I'll geg to it eventually though. And the 140 is a great tool. I got a Benchmade for Christmas and it's a boss ;-)


----------



## ac0rn

Happy Birthday. Very nice presents too.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I couldn't wait, I had to spend a few minutes cleaning the No 4 up enough so that I could take a test drive with it. I'm happy to report that I think I might now know real close what a new type 11 was like to use in the day. This plane has to be very close to what it was like new. I only cleaned some of the rust and took off a couple paint spatters but haven't done anything to the wood. Fixed the cutter and just ran some steel wool on the sole for now and put on a little candle wax before giving it a go. More to go but that will have to do for now.

One more picture to bore you silly. : )


----------



## BlasterStumps

All those tools look really nice sansoo. I'm really envious of the 140 find. happy Birthday.


----------



## tshiker

Happy birthday sansoo!

Blaster, that plane in my opinion is the epitome of Stanley hand plane quality! Good find!


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Happy birthday! I have a set of the 98 and 99 and used one of the two the other night. Can't remember which one. Awesome little planes.


----------



## sansoo22

Thanks for the birthday wishes everyone it really was a great day!!! And not just because of the tools. My mom cooked her incredible lasagna and red velvet cake for desert…I could have called it a perfect b-day with that meal alone.

Ken - The Benchmade is quite nice. I've never had a nice pocket knife. Always just bought something inexpensive and carried it until it fell apart or blade got dinged up. A couple years ago I bought myself a REALLY nice camping/hiking knife from Half Face Blades and learned what a nice knife is all about.

Blaster - That type 11 is the reason I'm hooked on planes. Finding that ugly dirty diamond that cleans up with near mint finishes is my favorite part of rust hunting.


----------



## controlfreak

Happy birthday Sansoo22! Now if you only knew someone who could fine tune that plane for you.


----------



## adot45

Happy Birthday, very nice gifts, and a great meal as well.


----------



## adot45

I found this little Millers Falls #97 at the flea market and it followed me home.
A solid little plane, similar to the Stanley #120.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice find adot. Any of them that have Millers Falls cast in the front like that are early models. Well, Millers Falls early at least - late 20's or early 30's ;-)

I see those most often without the original knob so that's a bonus too!


----------



## DevinT

Happy birthday sansoo!


----------



## adot45

> Nice find adot. Any of them that have Millers Falls cast in the front like that are early models. Well, Millers Falls early at least - late 20's or early 30's ;-)
> 
> I see those most often without the original knob so that's a bonus too!
> 
> - HokieKen


Hey Ken, When I saw that large printing my first thought was that it was an early one, good to know info, nice heavy casting too.


----------



## HokieKen

Unfortunately that lever cap style is problematic adot. Be extremely careful of overtightening the thumbwheel or you'll get stripped threads and/or a broken wheel.

Here's my 537 Sansoo. It holds an edge like no other knife I've owned. 









At first I thought it would be too big to be my EDC and I wasn't sure about the tanto style blade for general use. It's become the blade I grab evey day without even thinking about it though  I will warn you though, the 3V steel is a real mofo to sharpen. I have settled on oilstones with a ceramic to hone as the last step. But I'm leaning towards getting some diamonds for my guide system to speed up the process. As you probably know, Benchmade will sharpen it for free for life if you don't mind doing without it for a bit and paying the shipping. I'm too stubborn to take advantage of it but I certainly wouldn't blame anyone for doing so.

I will say, I'm not a fan of the flimsly scales but they make it weigh next to nothing and so far haven't presented any problem in use so I'm going to hold off on replacing them for now.


----------



## sansoo22

I agree with you on the scales. At first I thought my dad got me a Chinese knockoff because the knife was so light. But it was real and came with all the life sharp warranty paper work. The 560 came with S30V steel instead of 3V. From my limited knowledge they are almost identical steel except S30V is stainless.

I'm wondering how CBN wheels will do for sharpening knives. I'm getting close to ordering a pair of them. I just can't decide if I want the wheels to also service turning tools down the road or if I should just order the 80 and 350 grit mega squares now and worry about turning if I ever get my shopsmith restored.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Definitely jealous of those benchmade knives. I personally love the tanto style Ken. I obviously don't own one of theirs but I imagine sharpening is a lot easier/nicer on that tanto than a recurve would be.

I have some parts (titanium for liners, screws, bearings, etc.) to make a good folder myself from scratch but it'll make the super steels they use so sharpening will be a more common occurs ce once I get the project under way.


----------



## DevinT

S30V is a great steel. I have some knives with that as well as VG10 which is one of my favorites. I do like the tanto, but I really like the look of reverse tantos. Looks like a liner locking knife, is that right? Looks nice. Those handles are pretty light-weight so would make it a pretty good EDC imho.


----------



## sansoo22

Found these on the back patio today. Our mail carrier must of known we weren't home all day yesterday. She really does take pride in her job and I make sure to thank her for it.










Type 16 #3 that only a mother could love but challenged accepted on that restore. Type 7 #4 with about 0 japanning left so won't feel bad "ruining the patinas". And I think a type 2 #9 I will be attempting to bring back to "like new" condition just for HookieKen. All three of these were late night ebay hunting and each one was $40 or under.

I hang out on Reddit from time to time and hear a lot of complaints about finding cheap useable planes. I don't get it. That MF was $32 plus shipping and only needs a fresh edge to go back to work. The type 16 was $39.99 with free shipping. Clean it, sharpen it, go to work.

You can still get lucky and find $5 or $10 vintage planes at garage or estate sales. But even the professional estate sales companies, around my area anyway, track ebay plane pricing. Then they discount it to whatever they think will get it to sell in a day. In other words even estate sale planes are going up so any user under $50 is a win in my book when you consider full retail on a Wood River #4 is $200 these days.


----------



## corelz125

I think the better planes are harder to find at that $30-$40 price range but you do find good prices here and there. It seems the only thing that is cheap is block planes. Guess since there's tons of them around. Plenty of Great Neck, Corsairs, and handyman out there cheap. Guess I'll hoard planes instead of doge coins.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice #9 Sansoo  Looks like T2 from that pic. If the adjuster nut is brass and the wood is Cocobolo, that's what it is. Can't wait to see it in full parade dress!


----------



## DevinT

I've discovered a new fun activity. Take a shaving and try to control your smart phone through he shaving. If it is thin enough it will work as though the shaving is not there between your finger and the glass.


----------



## RWE

> I agree with you on the scales. At first I thought my dad got me a Chinese knockoff because the knife was so light. But it was real and came with all the life sharp warranty paper work. The 560 came with S30V steel instead of 3V. From my limited knowledge they are almost identical steel except S30V is stainless.
> 
> I m wondering how CBN wheels will do for sharpening knives. I m getting close to ordering a pair of them. I just can t decide if I want the wheels to also service turning tools down the road or if I should just order the 80 and 350 grit mega squares now and worry about turning if I ever get my shopsmith restored.
> 
> - sansoo22


Stubby Numbs has several videos on CBN wheels and one in particular about what grits to use for various types of shapening. I just bought a 180 and 350 Mega Square. I sharpened my skews, parting tools and other flat sided lathe tools with the 350 and am very happy.

I am waiting till I buy his adaptor set for my Wolverine to do my gouges.

I think 80 may be too aggressive and that is why I went with the 180. So far, I have favored the 350 and used it more.

If you are like me and only have one grinder, forget about lawn mower blades and such. Ken Rizzo recommended the push up stick of (some formula) waxy stuff that he sells to prevent softer metals from clogging up the CBN surface and I got that. I did all my beater chisels with a 25 degree side grind. I made an adaptor for the 90 degree sliding jig for his table that holds my chisels at 25 degrees to the flat side of the wheel. Great result with that. I have also used it for block plane irons.

I think CBN would be good for knives, but don't have any experience with that. The main thing is it transfers heat and therefore, if you are careful, will not fry your narrow edges.


----------



## Mosquito

I did basically the same, 180 and 320. Had worked great for sharpening my knives, though I always finished with stones


----------



## sansoo22

I watched Stumpy's video and that's where I came up with the 80 grit wheel primarily for reshaping/rehabbing irons in the planes I restore. That is one of the bottlenecks in my process. It can take a good hour or more to reshape one that has a curved profile and is out of square. That whole bevel has to come off.

I may pull the trigger on the 80 just out of curiosity. If nothing else I can report back here what I learn from it.


----------



## donwilwol

Which one of you millers falls guys can answer this?

https://www.timetestedtools.net/community/vintage-hand-plane-discussions/milers-falls-14c-plane-w-usmc-stamp/#post-13


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I'll let Kenny or someone with more knowledge and specifics tell the tale on that one but I can verify that I saw a YouTube on a miller's falls that a guy bought one at auction and it was new in the box unused stock and it was from the army I believe so Millers Falls definitely had a contract at some point with the US military.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I just realized that the type 11 No 4 has a thicker sole than any of my other Stanleys. What's up with that?
Tried to show it in this picture with it in between a type 11, 4 1/2 and a type 16 or later No 4. It is just a hair under 1/4" thick. I wondered why the weight.


----------



## bandit571

Usually Millers Falls would stamp any tool going to the US Government with a "G"......No.14 BCG…

The USMC stamped tools would go into a large Pioneer Chest kept in the Company Supply Room.


----------



## sansoo22

May have gotten a tad carried away with the new blasting cabinet today. All 3 are type 18s sporting their swim wear before they hit the paint booth.










And no I don't tape the face on these ogee style frogs. Its easier to hit them with a razor blade and then lap on the surface plate after paint.


----------



## DavePolaschek

It may just be me, but I think I would pay extra for a plane painted that shade of green, sansoo. ;-)


----------



## adot45

Nice sansoo22, I'm trying to work up the nerve to knock those rivets out.

"Why yes, I do like type 11's, why do do ask?"


----------



## DevinT

adot45 is that for sale somewhere? Very cool.


----------



## adot45

Yes Devin, my wife found it on Etsy and got it for me….the only problem is that it is very thin material, maybe even made from reclaimed dryer lint. But she knew I would be delighted with it and she was right!


----------



## DevinT

Here is a poster you might like


----------



## sansoo22

> Nice sansoo22, I m trying to work up the nerve to knock those rivets out.
> 
> - adot45


A needle file and a punch takes them right out. Now getting them back in as tight as they were is where I run into trouble.


----------



## adot45

> Nice sansoo22, I m trying to work up the nerve to knock those rivets out.
> 
> - adot45
> 
> A needle file and a punch takes them right out. Now getting them back in as tight as they were is where I run into trouble.
> 
> - sansoo22


LOL, I heard that! I can take anything apart….

Here's a Sargent 408 base before and after fresh from the blaster.


----------



## Mosquito

Ha, I got myself a Keen Kutter long sleeve shirt, and got one for my dad. Though, I got the one for my dad because the seller sent the wrong size the first time, and told me to keep it and he'd send the right size lol

"What's Keen Kutter?" - Hey, it's a free shirt, ok? :-D


----------



## sansoo22

> Ha, I got myself a Keen Kutter long sleeve shirt, and got one for my dad. Though, I got the one for my dad because the seller sent the wrong size the first time, and told me to keep it and he d send the right size lol
> 
> "What s Keen Kutter?" - Hey, it s a free shirt, ok? :-D
> 
> - Mosquito


You could have gotten him an old Keen Kutter safety razor to go with it. Tell him its vintage and cool. All the hipsters use them these days.


----------



## HokieKen

> Usually Millers Falls would stamp any tool going to the US Government with a "G"......No.14 BCG…
> 
> - bandit571


+1 Also Millers Falls was never sloppy about their engraving so the USMC was almost certainly stamped by the corp rather than MF. And while I know MF supplied a lot of planes and other tools under government contract, I've never seen any details on specifics of those contracts. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if a good number of them made it to the armed forces though.


----------



## corelz125

Catch the 607 and 608 on Leechs June list? Those look like they just came out of the box.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Adot, what blasting media did you use? It did a good job. I'm trying to get a Wards Master 78 style stripped so it will look okay when painted. mike


----------



## sansoo22

> Catch the 607 and 608 on Leechs June list? Those look like they just came out of the box.
> 
> - corelz125


I saw them. Pretty sure I heard my wallet SCREAM when I opened the image. I didn't buy them of course but the wallet has had traumatic experiences when it comes to planes.


----------



## adot45

> Adot, what blasting media did you use? It did a good job. I m trying to get a Wards Master 78 style stripped so it will look okay when painted. mike
> 
> - BlasterStumps


I use Black Beauty fine and medium, I have medium in there now, I like it but I'd like to try some glass bead sometime too just to see if there's a difference in the etch. I can't remember if I got it at Tractor Supply or Harbor Freight.


----------



## corelz125

The prices are on the high end but doubt you'll find roundy rocks in any better condition than those 2. Too high for me to


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks. I'm going to see if HF has a hand held gun. I know they sell the glass. Might get some. Thanks again.
Mike


> Adot, what blasting media did you use? It did a good job. I m trying to get a Wards Master 78 style stripped so it will look okay when painted. mike
> 
> - BlasterStumps
> 
> I use Black Beauty fine and medium, I have medium in there now, I like it but I d like to try some glass bead sometime too just to see if there s a difference in the etch. I can t remember if I got it at Tractor Supply or Harbor Freight.
> 
> - adot45


----------



## BlasterStumps

What pricing does he have on those two? I don't receive the list. : (


> Catch the 607 and 608 on Leechs June list? Those look like they just came out of the box.
> 
> - corelz125


----------



## sansoo22

Here they are for those that aren't on the mailing list. The price is $295 each. You can get on the mailing list by going to Patrick's site.









Not sure why but I REALLY want to swap the front knobs so the handles on each one matches. Like its really bugging me.


----------



## HokieKen

Patrick has a Buck Rogers smoother that has some bad surface rust for $120 which is a pretty fair price. He also has a MF #11 junior jack that is tempting me…


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Here they are for those that aren t on the mailing list. The price is $295 each. You can get on the mailing list by going to Patrick s site.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure why but I REALLY want to swap the front knobs so the handles on each one matches. Like its really bugging me.
> 
> - sansoo22


For only $590 + shipping, you can do that, Sansoo.

FYI - here's the page subscribing to the tool list.


----------



## corelz125

Lol I didnt notice the knobs and handles until you pointed them out. Some of his prices are fair. Mostly the non Stanley stuff is reasonable.


----------



## sansoo22

First restoration after a 5 month break…I'm a little rusty but here is a Type 18 5-1/4. Some of the finishes are a tad off and I dropped a screw driver right on the rib in front of the mouth and chipped it. Couldn't find my touch up pen so will fix that when the new one gets here.


----------



## Mosquito

Still looking good Sansoo


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## HokieKen

OMG, I'll say those finishes are a little off Sansoo! I could barely shave using that tote as a mirror. Plus the depth adjuster would blind me if I tried. You should be ashamed of yourself ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Gawd, that's nice work!


----------



## adot45

Really nice, a pleasure to see such a job.


----------



## sansoo22

Thanks guys. At one point over the winter I was considering retiring from restoration work. But a couple loyal "customers" from Reddit asked for more stuff so here I am.

And is it just me or did 5-1/4s get A LOT harder to find lately. A couple years ago I bought 3 pre war models for $40 a piece. Now I'm seeing them priced for two to three times that amount. Did other people figure out its quite a nice nimble little to plane to have in your till?


----------



## Mosquito

how long until you retire from it again sansoo? I've got the rest of my KK line up waiting for you to have time and willingness ;-)


----------



## Notw

awesome job Sansoo, that looks great.


----------



## bandit571

There was a discussion about a resaw being done…









Used the tablesaw as a kerf cutter….8-1/4" blade doesn't reach very far, so…









Happen to have a few saws that might..









using the kerf, letting the D8 follow along…









It's done when it pops open…









Needed more elbow room….moved to the side of the bench..









Extra clamp to keep things from flipping over….wound up with 6 panels…3/8 " thick…









6 were a bit larger than another 6..









And how is this plane related? They all need to be planed flat.


----------



## RWE

I do the same technique Bandit. I typically use the bandsaw to finish the cut. I think using a D8 is the more "woodworkerly" method however and I will do that in the future. The bandsaw kerf is much smaller than the table saw kerf, so you can look at it two ways. If you use the bandsaw, while not as elegant as a handsaw, it does leave more clean up work for your plane. So either way works I guess.

These are the problems that a "hybrid" woodworker must face and find the proper resolution to. LOL


----------



## sansoo22

> how long until you retire from it again sansoo? I ve got the rest of my KK line up waiting for you to have time and willingness ;-)
> 
> - Mosquito


If I can afford the CBN wheels soon it will be awhile. Last major pain point in the process is rehabbing old irons. Doing it with a regular grinding wheel now and it kind of sucks. Better than by hand but still takes awhile unless you like turning the edges blue.

Then I will see about a stationary belt/disc sander. I want one for the shop in general but will most likely experiment on a #3 or #4 if I get one.


----------



## corelz125

I'm in the same boat as you with those old irons. Most of them are no where close to being square and any type of consistent angle. I went to 40 grit discs on the worksharp. It make it go a little faster


----------



## HokieKen

2 words Sansoo: Belt + Grinder


----------



## RWE

I am liking my CBN wheels. No more standing over the diamond plates for at least half hours at the time, sometimes hours. No dread fear of frying the edge like you could with a conventional grinder wheel. I did most of the work on the diamond plates and avoided the grinder except for squaring an edge.

I have resharpened all of my"beater" chisels and then put a secondary bevel on them with the Veritas MKII jig. You can creep to the edge of the iron or chisel on the CBN and get very close, then move to the diamonds. I did about a dozen of those chisels in around an hour or less.

I plan to do a refurb of my vintage chisels next then move through my plane irons, but what was a super long process has become "no big deal".

I have stated this before and don't want to be redundant, but if I did not have lathe tools to deal with, I would probably prefer a Worksharp with CBN platters.

The fact that heat does not build up as badly with CBN is the really big deal to me.


----------



## HokieKen

I broke down and put the CBN disks for the Worksharp on my birthday wish list. I have always done fine with abrasives but it would be nice not to have to change them.

The WS has become my primary and nearly sole stop for sharpening anything with a straight edge. It's even my go-to for carving gouges and vee tools using some Tormek jigs. I definitely love it! BUT, it's not a good way to do any significant material removal. Like Corelz, I can put some coarse abrasives on there and square up and reshape a plane iron. But, it's a whole lot faster to remove the material and rough in a bevel on a bench or belt grinder and then go to the WS to get the final working edge.


----------



## RWE

I have only used a Worksharp in passing at the Woodworking "Guild" club here. From what you are saying, you don't have to go to diamonds or stones for your final edge?

The best scenario would be to have the CBN on a grinder and have a Worksharp I guess.

One downside of having CBN is that you don't want to use them on soft metals like lawn mower blades. That will clog up the CBN surface.


----------



## bandit571

Finish up with the Unicorn edge sometime…..you might like it….I certainly do….


----------



## HokieKen

Mower blades get done with an angle grinder ;-p But yeah, different steels require different abrasives. I wouldn't grind any stainless on CBN either. But I don't think I have any tools with stainless tool steels either. I do have some CrV chisels though and they will clog CBN too I think. And HSS like my turning tools and machine cutters all get done on the bench grinder with friable wheels.

But no, I don't go to diamonds any more for a final edge off my Worksharp. I have abrasives up to 6000 grit micro mesh and then I strop with leather and green compound just to make sure there's no wire edge hanging on. My diamond plates used to be my workhorses but they rarely see any action at all these days. When they do, it's usually on knives.


----------



## HokieKen

> Finish up with the Unicorn edge sometime…..you might like it….I certainly do….
> 
> - bandit571


I have been pondering that method Bandit. I will give it a go at some point on something.


----------



## RWE

I can't figure out if the Unicorn edge is sharpening jig or an inside joke. All I know is that my granddaughter wants one if it has anything to do with a Unicorn. Just got a Unicorn pool float in from Amazon.

If it is not a joke, what the heck is a Unicorn edge??


----------



## bandit571

Cloth wheel on a grinder, charged with compound of your choice ( I use the green stuff) start a bit back from the edge, and work towards it….lightly seems to work best…...have the edge pointing down and away. Only takes a few passes. I go to my 2500 grit first, then to the cloth wheel.


----------



## HokieKen

Here's a link to the Unicorn Method RWE. Essentially it boils down to putting a very small, steep concave micro bevel on a shallower main bevel. It makes sense to me but I haven't tried it yet. I think it seems promising on chisels and maybe block planes. Doesn't seem like it would be much advantage on bevel-down bench planes but I could be wrong about that.


----------



## RWE

Work is getting in the way of my sharpening education, but I Googled Unicorn Edge and started a Youtube on it. Will check your link later.

I may be partially "Unicorn" already. I have used a three cloth wheel buffing system on my lathe to polish the backs of irons and chisels. I also use it on the final edge, but have been reluctant about how much to do that since I felt it could dull the edge, so I was always trying to polish the bevel and just glance a bit on the true edge.

My cloth wheels are three different hardness ratings and I typically on work with the firmest and the green compound.

Maybe I am a Unicorn man and did not know it?


----------



## Notw

one of these days when I can afford plywood again I need to make the stumpy nubs Worksharp stand so I can sharpen on the top using a regular sharpening jig. Might have to sell a kid or something to get a sheet of plywood though


----------



## sansoo22

I use the unicorn method for both sharpening and touch ups between sharpening. I put a bench hook on my strop and just leave that on the bench when doing a lot of plane work. I can quickly hit the edge with the buffer and then pull the little tin foil looking burr off the back with my strop and go right back to work. Can usually do that twice before I have to pull out the 1200 and 8000 stones.

The shavings in this photo were from a touched up iron. It would no longer shave hair and after 30 seconds was ready to go back to work.









I have read that the unicorn method can quickly dull an edge if not done correctly. I can't confirm this as the first time I tried it I got surgical sharp edges. BUT…I also spend a lot of time with my buffer on tool restorations so I got a LOT of hours logged in front of that thing.


----------



## HokieKen

On BD planes like that Sansoo, do you buff the back side at all or just the bevel? Do you perceive a benefit in sharpness, edge retention, or both?

I basically shape my carving knives the same way by rocking the edge up a couple of degrees right at the end of the stroke when stropping. It leaves me a slightly less sharp, though still extremely sharp, edge but in return I get a much more durable edge that allows me to use the knife much longer before having to strop again. For a plane, I would be willing to make the same trade off I think if it didn't overly complicate my edge geometry. And for reference, I consider a back bevel (including the "ruler trick") or secondary/tertiary bevels to be overly complicated…


----------



## RWE

> Here s a link to the Unicorn Method RWE. Essentially it boils down to putting a very small, steep concave micro bevel on a shallower main bevel. It makes sense to me but I haven t tried it yet. I think it seems promising on chisels and maybe block planes. Doesn t seem like it would be much advantage on bevel-down bench planes but I could be wrong about that.
> 
> - HokieKen


I was like you Hokie. I did the primary bevel to the edge and that was it. The difference is that you got yours with power, the Worksharp, while I did it by hand with diamonds, occasionally using a grinder to relieve the bevel while I chased it to flat.

When I got the CBN wheels. i*t occurred to me that I could chase the bevel to just shy of the edge with the CBN and then to finish up on the diamonds, using a secondary bevel would be so much faster.*

I do 25 degree bevels, 27 degree secondary.

Thanks for the link. The microscopic pictures tell a tale.

Now I will Unicorn the edge of the secondary bevel I guess and see how that works. I had been using the buffing wheels just to polish the irons and chisels and their backs, just to make them pretty but was super cautious about rolling the edge i worked so hard on. Now I will try to roll it purposefully.


----------



## sansoo22

There is an article somewhere on the interwebs that put the unicorn method under the microscope but I can't seem to locate it right now. Microscopically you do get a curved tertiary bevel as well as steel grain with a much more uniform consistency. I have noticed greater sharpness and edge retention using the buffer. An arch (curve) is a stronger structure and the uniform grain is less surface area to get abused while the blade is in use.

My 1200 grit DMT plate doesn't seem to notice that microscopic curve what so ever. I don't feel it adds anything complex to the edge geometry. I do use the ruler trick on my plane irons but I don't hit the back of the iron on the buffer. For me its 2 to 3 quick passes across my yellow buffer wheel charged with 12000 grit green compound and then 4 or 5 passes for the back of the iron on my horse butt strop using the same compound. A few quick flicks across denim jeans will do the same but damn that's scary. The buffer will leave a burr that seriously looks like tin foil so the strop is just for pulling that off hence why denim can do the same thing.

I have experimented with hitting the backs of chisels on the buffer but have noticed you need to be very careful as too much pressure can dull your edge. I'm still working on this technique but if done right I don't need the strop and can go right to work with the chisel.

I am still experimenting, after all I am a perfectionist, but I will say I worry about specific bevel geometry less and less with the buffer involved. No more low angle block plane should be 23 and 28…its more like everything is 25 + 30 + buffer = transparent shavings.

Edit: That link in Ken's post is the one I was taking about


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks for the feedback Sansoo. I have been meaning to give the method a shot anyway. I think I'll start with a couple of chisels though and if that WOW's me, I'll experiment with a plane iron or two. I have to admit though, I have no complaints about the sharpness or retention of my plane blades whether vintage or modern PM-V11 so I'm not real keen to fix what ain't broke.

RWE - you're right about power sharpening vs stones. Especially if free-handing on stones. To me, manual sharpening is where secondary bevels have an advantage. With something like a Worksharp though, it takes no more time to have a continuous bevel than it does to hone a secondary bevel so that's how I roll


----------



## RWE

> There is an article somewhere on the interwebs that put the unicorn method under the microscope but I can t seem to locate it right now. Microscopically you do get a curved tertiary bevel as well as steel grain with a much more uniform consistency. I have noticed greater sharpness and edge retention using the buffer. An arch (curve) is a stronger structure and the uniform grain is less surface area to get abused while the blade is in use.


Sansoo, the article that Hokie linked has pretty dramatic proof with microscopic pictures of chisel edges. Video is good too.


> Here s a link to the Unicorn Method RWE. Essentially it boils down to putting a very small, steep concave micro bevel on a shallower main bevel. It makes sense to me but I haven t tried it yet. I think it seems promising on chisels and maybe block planes. Doesn t seem like it would be much advantage on bevel-down bench planes but I could be wrong about that.
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## sansoo22

Ken - you have way more experience with sharpening and edge geometry than me so you may not see a huge improvement. First time I tried it I was skeptical. I had a fresh honed edge off the 8k stone and was like "damn thats sharp…it shaves hair like nothing". Went to the buffer, then strop, and did the arm test again. In a single pass I had a literal bald spot…like arm hair had never grown there. I was actually in the shop giggling like a child at the difference.


----------



## bandit571

Tried to push this plane around, today…









Figured I could at least try to flatten a few boards of Ash…..the ones I had re-sawn….before & after?









And…after the second board was done…









Plane is a Millers Falls No. 15…..slightly bigger than a "normal" Jack plane…









A No. 14…...had to stop, toes were starting to cramp up….kind of hard to push a plane that way….2 done, 10 to go….

Need to get a bit better at sharpening the Stanley # 80…..and…may build a wooden case to house it? Or..maybe just my 4 spokeshaves?


----------



## sansoo22

Bandit that book matched Ash looks very nice. I'm not familiar with the MF #15…is that roughly a Stanley 5-1/2 size?


----------



## sansoo22

A couple more type 18s to go with the 5-1/4. We have a classic smooth bottom #5 and of course the #40 scrub plane.


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice, how tempting was it to polish the lever cap on the #40 instead of paint it back, just so it would match?


----------



## bandit571

Lets see…a Millers Falls No. 11 is the same as a Stanley No. 5-1/4. The No. 14 is the same as a Stanley No. 5.

The Millers Falls No. 15 is about the same as an early Stanley No. 5-1/2…..uses a 2-1/4 wide iron, instead of the later 2-3/8" wide iron. I do happen to have a Stanley No. 5-1/2…with the 2-3/8" iron..a Type 19, I think.


----------



## Mosquito

The Ohio made Keen Kutter are also 2-1/4" wide on the 5-1/2's. I wish they were 2-3/8", but oh well


----------



## HokieKen

I actually like the 2-1/4" iron on my #15. If it was 2-3/8" it would basically be an 18 (#6). The slightly narrower iron is better for edge jointing narrower boards IMO


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, but the only thick IBC iron I could get for my KK5-1/2 was a Rob Cosman special


----------



## DevinT

I THINK I DID IT!

I've been stalking my HPOYDSS recipient for a month now (I am watching your every move! LoL) and boy-howdy, do I think I've finally got the plane for this hardened plane connoisseur.

It was tough, because he has a lot of planes. So so many planes. I was dead-set on not only getting something that he doesn't have but something that I would want too (and I will certainly have a hard time sending this off), all while costing $40 or less.

Honestly, I can't believe nobody is bidding on this thing right now. It's worth at least double what the seller is asking for starting bid ($40). Quite obvious by the $75 buy-it-now option, but with zero bids on the thing right now, and less than 60 minutes to go in the auction, I'm starting to get excited.

Someone is going to get a gem of a plane that they don't already have. I don't know how I'm expected to sit on this thing for 5 months though.


----------



## sansoo22

> Very nice, how tempting was it to polish the lever cap on the #40 instead of paint it back, just so it would match?
> 
> - Mosquito


Well there is a 4th type 18 I haven't quite finished yet. After polishing 3 lever caps and all the associated hardware I was relieved when it came to the #40.


----------



## DevinT

I won the auction! Unless something else pops up in the next 5 months, I think I've got my HPOYDSS squared away! Phew! That $40 cap is a beast to deal with but I did it! Didn't want to make anyone jealous of my recipient getting something that cost more than $40. Certainly didn't want to be called-out for breaking the rules ^_^

*EDIT*: and now I can give the Radi plane to the neighbor's kid


----------



## 33706

> The Ohio made Keen Kutter are also 2-1/4" wide on the 5-1/2 s. I wish they were 2-3/8", but oh well
> 
> - Mosquito


Not that I wish to condemn Stanley #27 1/2 trannies any further than they already are, but they too have a 2 1/4" cutter which fits the early Stanley 5 1/2. Just don't try to use the chipper, it's a no go for yoke engagement.


----------



## DevinT

What's wrong with the 27-1/2 transitional?


----------



## bandit571

BARN SALE today….my favourite two words….









There be $11 sitting there…..$1 for the hammer….needs a better wedge?









When I bought the Jack plane, they threw in the Mortise Gauge for free…









Then two little points are very sharp….as for the jack plane..









It does have issues…









Tote is cracked, lateral lever MIA, chipbreaker is the wrong size..









It do have 3 patent dates..









Lever cap has been brazed…









Has a No. 6 on the back deck..









Hmmm, $0.20 a piece for the knives?









Yep, that is a Case knife…handle is 2-5/8" long. Spent a $1 on a flashlight, too..









Not too bad of a day….


----------



## bandit571

Ok…back to that iron….logo is a Stanley in a clipped corner box….with just "Made in USA" under it. However, on the "backside" of the iron, i found three numbers…..241….2nd quarter of 1941. Kind of rules it out as a Type 12 iron, doesn't it. Tall knob, but no ring…...3 patent dates.

Replacement iron, AND a replacement chipbreaker?.......I can go ahead and replace the chipbreaker, since it is for a #3 sized plane. Might go ahead and replace the lever cap, too. Will glue the cracked rear handle. Body has ZERO cracks or pitting. Wood is rosewood, BTW. That iron will shave arm hair, right now….haven't even touched it yet….might give it a quick strop?

Hmmm…what would Sansoo do?


----------



## rad457

I read a #5 on that deck?


----------



## bandit571

Ok…that "free" Mortise Gauge?









Needed a little clean up..









Not sure which company used these as sliders..









Wood seems to be a Rosewood…..all ready to go to work…


----------



## DavePolaschek

> That $40 cap is a beast to deal with but I did it!


Congratulations!

I guess I'm just lucky. I found a plane that seemed likely before I even signed up for the secret Santa, and set a bid of $39 for it on eBay. Ended up getting it for $37. That means I can buy $3 worth of glitter to spiff it up for my recipient!


----------



## tshiker

Good for you Devin, sounds like a big load has been lifted off your shoulders! That $40 is a challenge!


----------



## bandit571

> I read a #5 on that deck?
> 
> - Andre


Just seeing if you all was awake….


----------



## adot45

Pretty good day rust hunting, at least by my standards. A (yep another) Sargent 408 that is in sharpen the blade and go condition with intact knob and tote. And a Stanley No. 4C type 11 that aside from rust is in perfect condition and complete with perfect rosewood knob and tote and a pretty good length blade.



















And the Stanley 4C


----------



## donwilwol

Nice finds! They should make great additions


----------



## HokieKen

Nice haul adot. If you don't start buying something besides #4s we're gonna have to call you Paul Sellers though ;-)


----------



## DevinT

Ken, LoL @ Paul Sellers

It's funny because it's true


----------



## adot45

Thanks Don, they should indeed. I'm getting a nice little selection of Sargents but still no VBM's :-(

LOL Ken, Well, I'm open to a little expansion…...


----------



## 33706

> What s wrong with the 27-1/2 transitional?
> 
> - DevinT


I feel bad encouraging people to de-commission a transitional for any reason.


----------



## bandit571

Might have that $10 Jack about done….re-hab-wise.









Took it for a test drive..









As for the sole? Sorry, this is about as good as I tend to get in a rehab…









No cracks, no pits. Only question I have?









Barnes who?.....Replaced the chipbreaker and the bolt, and the lever cap…









Swapped out the bolts for the handles…









Had the wrong ends, had to re-use the threaded rod for the tote, was the correct length…









letting the glue sit a day, or two….then sand things out on the tote…









At least it was a clean break…

Iron still has 2 small nicks in the edge, will hone them out next sharpening session…no rush.


----------



## bandit571

So…how is this for a Jack plane?









$4.45 ….









Hmmmm…









And…it works!.....


----------



## RWE

> Finish up with the Unicorn edge sometime…..you might like it….I certainly do….
> 
> - bandit571


Bandit is now in Hokie territory. He has become a veritable INTERNET INFLUENCER. I finally got a bit of shop time and just put a Unicorn edge on the last two groupings of chisels that I had refurbished and sharpened.

I did about 12 "beater" chisels. and about 8 0r 10 20 degree bevel English chisels.

I have very little hair left on my left forearm.


----------



## DevinT

I tend to have to shave my legs with my blades to see if they are sharp ^_^


----------



## BlasterStumps

Bandit, well at least it doesn't have that awful helix shaped cutter like one I had years ago. Looks like you might be able to sharpen that one just like the blades in a jointer. Cool find.


----------



## bandit571

TMI…


----------



## bandit571

> I tend to have to shave my legs with my blades to see if they are sharp ^_^
> 
> - DevinT


TMI…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here's the Wards Master 78 style that I found the other day. I am fixing it up for my youngest son. Still have a ways to go on it though. Worst paint job ever but it looks better now than it did.


----------



## HokieKen

> I tend to have to shave my legs with my blades to see if they are sharp ^_^
> 
> - DevinT


Ditto


----------



## bandit571

Put a fancy-schmansy plane to use, this morning..( was down there, doing the Laundry Detail stuff) so..









Fancy Jointer..









Then ..









Going cross grain at the diagonals to flatten a few boards….
( that item in the black circle? Broken off screw, needed to dig it out, BEFORE flattening the bench top)

Discovered the bench had a high spot, preventing parts from laying flat…









Turned out bigger than I first thought..









It was the plane sitting out, in use….put it to work…


----------



## Notw

Ok finished my Stanley Bailey No. 4-1/2 restoration. There was a lot more pitting in the metal than I originally thought, I sanded out what I could. First time painting a plane, not sure i'm very happy with how it came out, it is nowhere near as smooth as japanning is, not sure what can be done to improve that.

Handle and knob were good but made new ones out of walnut to match all my other planes.

The before pictures again:


















And the after pictures


----------



## RWE

Looks good to me. Nice job. My eyes run to the knob and tote and if they look good, the plane looks good. I like a little age and patina. The iron and lever cap look great.

If a plane body had some flaws but not enough to paint, I leave it alone. So having some character on the plane body seems okay to me. If you are not happy with the paint and how it dried, I would not worry much about it.

Sansoo does not approve this message.LOL


----------



## HokieKen

How did you paint it adot? What paint specifically and what process? Just looking at it, it looks to me like you used a paint that was too flat and too thin or you didn't put enough coats on. Best way to mimic japanning IMO is using Duplicolor engine enamel in either gloss or semi-gloss and putting a minimum of 3, probably 4, and occasionally 5 coats on. When it's wet, it'll look way too thick but it shrinks significantly as it cools.

Read Sansoo's process in his blog. I've never baked mine but I pretty much follow the same process. Depending on what paint you used on yours, you might be able to spray a couple of coats of duplicolor right over what you have there.

I just painted this one. I was dumb and experimented with a different enamel because I had it on hand and was being a cheapass. It looks okay but I left it way too thin. I should have given it at least one, probably two, more coats.


----------



## HokieKen

And the plane looks awesome BTW ;-) Excellent job on the knob and tote!


----------



## Notw

Ken was your painting question directed at me?


----------



## HokieKen

Yes it was  Not sure where I got adot…


----------



## RWE

> Ken was your painting question directed at me?
> 
> - Notw


I am following this thread and Ken is addressing the Notw post and just made a mental mistake and used the wrong name. Being an "INTERNET INFLUENCER" is hard and your mental processes wear down a bit under the pressure.

Notw is not Adot. Buck up Ken, get a drink and relax a bit.


----------



## Notw

Here was my process for painting.

- soaked everything in electrolysis tank which removed a lot of the original japanning
- removed remainder of japanning with a brass wheel on the drill
- taped off areas I didn't want paint on
- sprayed 2 light coats of duplicolor engine enamel gloss black
- sprayed 1 wet coat of duplicolor engine enamel gloss black as per can instructions
- removed tape, used a razor blade to remove paint from top edges and top of frog
- sanded smooth top edges 
- took picture to share with Lumberjocks


----------



## adot45

Notw - I like how it turned out and I think it looks very nice. Gotta love that walnut, Good job!


----------



## Notw

> Notw - I like how it turned out and I think it looks very nice. Gotta love that walnut, Good job!
> 
> - adot45


Ken ^^^^^^^ that is Adot


----------



## Notw

Thank you Adot


----------



## Mosquito

> Notw - I like how it turned out and I think it looks very nice. Gotta love that walnut, Good job!
> 
> - adot45
> 
> 
> 
> Ken ^^^^^^^ that is Adot
> 
> - Notw
Click to expand...

That… was funny


----------



## RWE

Speaking of reading issues. I missed the Walnut note in Notw's post. I have been scratching my head trying to figure out how he got from the original wood knob and tote to the final wood knob and tote and wondering what I was doing wrong.

In the for what it is worth category. I go to an auto-parts store and buy car engine paint with ceramic content. It is a Dupli-Color brand. I favor Semi-Gloss Black but I had a Gloss black can and have used it on the last couple of plane refurbs. My theory is the ceramic content will provide a longer lasting and harder finish? No scientific proof, just a common sense notion. You certainly could bake it. Withstands up to 500 degrees it says. It has always finished out well for me. The last couple of planes, I did use a Dupli-color Grey primer and I think I got a better final finish. The key is light coats like Ken stated, I think. I had primer, then three coats of paint.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm just gonna call you both aNotw45 to avoid confusion ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

> Here was my process for painting.
> 
> - soaked everything in electrolysis tank which removed a lot of the original japanning
> - removed remainder of japanning with a brass wheel on the drill
> - taped off areas I didn t want paint on
> - sprayed 2 light coats of duplicolor engine enamel gloss black
> - sprayed 1 wet coat of duplicolor engine enamel gloss black as per can instructions
> - removed tape, used a razor blade to remove paint from top edges and top of frog
> - sanded smooth top edges
> - took picture to share with Lumberjocks
> 
> - Notw


Interesting. The final finish looks flatter than the semi-gloss let alone the gloss. Of course that's only in pics and ones that are downsized considerably for this site… May have just needed another coat or two? With duplicolor you should be able to spray over it but I'd wait at least 2 weeks if you do to make sure what's already on there is fully cured.


----------



## drsurfrat

Does anyone need an Ohio Tool plane iron? Too late for the plane swap, but I only got them yesterday in a batch. Two are 2+1/8" wide and have that massive taper. There is also a screw-less chipbreaker, but the hole is bigger than the usual 3/8".

The third iron is not marked that I can tell, but DonW's site says it's an Ohio with the hexagonal hole. 2+3/8" wide, also with a fat taper. They'd be good users, not much corrosion and no deep pitting.


----------



## Ocelot

Man, it's tempting to say yes for any givaway, but I gave away one myself not too long ago.

I've got some old woodies that were my grandfather's, but no blades. Maybe no wedges. I'll have to dig 'em out. Meanwhile, somebody else will take these, which is fine.

So, I might want … but don't know and it might take awhile to find out so … yeah, I needn't have said anything.

-Paul


----------



## HokieKen

Mos' might want those. I think those are the same blades used in the KK planes?


----------



## drsurfrat

Wouldn't they have KK logos? It is Mos'; there will be NO frankenplanes in his shop  or office.


----------



## Mosquito

I've got two irons for each of my KK's, so I'm good


----------



## HokieKen

I guess they would have KK logos. But I know he has IBC irons in at least some of his so he isn't THAT much of a purist ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

> I ve got two irons for each of my KK s, so I m good
> 
> - Mosquito


Sounds to me like somebody needs another set of planes…


----------



## Mosquito

lol it's true. I do have all the original KK irons for them, but for whatever reason I wanted the IBC irons, so that's what I went with across the board lol


----------



## bandit571

Have an Ohio Tool Co. No. 0-7 that could use an iron…..instead of the Stanley it has…


----------



## HokieKen

Dropping a hint for whoever has my name in the Secret Santa Swap.

Ugh I hate it when there isn't even a "best offer" option to give me a sliver of hope…


----------



## corelz125

For painting and baking I use VHT engine enamel. In the directions it says to bake. The baking helps it level out a small amount.i could use an Ohio 1 5/8" iron and chip breaker


----------



## RWE

Live and learn. I am baking my first plane as we speak. I picked up a Sargent VBM Jack the other day.

I used the cheapo Harbor Freight sand blasting gun with my 6 gallon Dewalt air compressor. Talking about skimming the tree tops. It did work. I am not so sure which process was messier, using paint stripper or using the Coal Slag media in that blaster.










After blasting the japanning off, I hit it again with wire wheel to get off the next layer shown in picture.

So this old dog has learned two new tricks, sand blasting as opposed to paint stripper and now how to bake a plane when Momma is away. I hope it does not generate a smell or I will be in trouble when she gets home.

Credit to the restoration thread for the sand blasting approach. I don't have room for a cabinet and don't need a bigger compressor, so I will skim the tree tops with my rig.

Credit to the Sansoo blog linked by Kenny above for getting me to try baking. Ceramic content Dupli-Color engine enamel which seems to be approved in the Sansoo blog.

I will post a picture after the two sessions of baking.


----------



## HokieKen

Very nice RWE! I want to try baking too on my next plane. I harbor no misconceptions though - it will stink and my wife will not be happy ;-)

Looks like somebody's been working with Osage Orange ;-)


----------



## sansoo22

The smell from the baking isn't bad for a smaller plane. I'd say up to a #5 size is moderate. After that it can get pretty strong when you open the oven. Turn on the exhaust hood and leave the oven cracked for 30 min or so is what I do.

One thing I will add about baking with Dupli Color is it will shrink your final finish a tad. Its a bit of an art form but I try to build up my paint a little thicker than what I want it to be on the finished plane. My gauge is a bit like "oops the letters in the casting look a tad flooded"...that's when i know its ready and will bake nicely. VHT is a different animal that corelz could speak to with greater expertise. I find VHT hard to judge coat thickness myself but it is a very durable paint as well.

The other nice thing about baking is if you do a cycle in the 150 range and your paint shrinks too much you can respray it and bake it again. I haven't tried this after the final 200 deg bake as that finish is pretty damn hard at that point.

Damn I need to do a new blog about this I think.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> Damn I need to do a new blog about this I think.
> 
> - sansoo22


Not a bad idea. I know you've spread information around various threads that isn't really detailed in your blog. I think little things like how thick you coat before baking (with pics please ) and how long you wait before baking and when you scrape the edges and primer vs no primer etc. etc. would be nice to have documented in one place


----------



## Lazyman

I'll take sand blaster blow back to messy paint stripper almost any day, though the black coal slag might change my mind I suppose. I need to check the local mason suppliers to see if they have some #000 sand to see if it is a more uniform cheap media than the generic sand from HD and Lowes.

What temperature does is required to bake the paint and for how long? Just wondering if I could rig up a solar oven or something to make it work.


----------



## RWE

The Osage was part of a project to get some bow wood to Don W.

When I picked up the blaster, HF had no media that suited my budget. Northern Tools had an ad for sand, but when I got there, all they had was Coal Slag. That is life. Nothing works out. So I will look for some sand on the next go round. I looked like Levon Helm in "Coal Miner's Daughter" with that coal slag.

I had not done any sand blasting since I worked on my old 1959 MGA in the early 70's.


----------



## sansoo22

> What temperature does is required to bake the paint and for how long? Just wondering if I could rig up a solar oven or something to make it work.
> 
> - Lazyman


I do ~150 for an hour and then 200 for an hour. Let the parts completely cool to room temp in between cycles. The 2 times I've tried going straight to 200 the paint bubbled on me so I introduced the first bake at a lower temp and no issues since then.

I got the 200 deg stat from VHT. They say to bake at 200 for 30 min and every time the engine gets up to temp the paint cures more. So I figured why not take the planes to 200 for an hour since they don't have internal combustion.


----------



## HokieKen

Maybe your planes don't have ICEs…


----------



## RWE

I just completed the hour at 140 degrees. The finish did look noticeably crisper and flat. I believe it helped the logo show up a bit better. Maybe Sansoo knows a thing or two??

I did not get any bubbling. It had cooled and I just put it in for the second hour at 200 degrees.

Next up is the little Stanley Defiance plane that was posted about by Bandit a while back. I am going to get some sand and work on it with the HF sand blaster, then switch back to Semi-gloss Black. I kind of like the Gloss, so on the fence now about that now.

Will post pictures of the final result after the second hour.


----------



## donwilwol

Duplicolor instructions used to say not to bake. I just looked and they've removed that, although it does give temperatures. It will also cloud up in direct sunlight and instructions say to keep it out of direct sunlight, I'm not sure if that's from heat or something else.


----------



## adot45

> I ll take sand blaster blow back to messy paint stripper almost any day, though the black coal slag might change my mind I suppose. I need to check the local mason suppliers to see if they have some #000 sand to see if it is a more uniform cheap media than the generic sand from HD and Lowes.
> 
> What temperature does is required to bake the paint and for how long? Just wondering if I could rig up a solar oven or something to make it work.
> 
> - Lazyman


I would be very careful using sand if using a hand held spot blaster or a portable type outfit. Wear a mask and use a fan for some side draft. I use Black Beauty (also called coal slag because it is basically ground up coal slag) It takes about a coffee can of the stuff to charge my cabinet and it lasts and lasts. A vacuum hooked up to the exhaust port removes the dust and makes it easy to see, not to mention that it keeps your work area clean. I'm not trying to be preachy here but silica is nothing to mess with. You will want to enjoy your retirement for as many years as possible.


----------



## Lazyman

Absolutely. Got have a good filter mask to avoid breathing the silica dust, but I don't really want to breath any dust from sandblasting for that matter, weather from the media or what you are removing. I also made sure that the wind was blowing away from me which was a little bit of a pain because it kept changing direction. If I was doing this regularly, I would probably get a cabinet but for the rare time I do this, I don't really want to dedicate the space for it.


----------



## adot45

Good deal, I really wasn't trying to single you out Lazyman but I've read a few others talk about using play sand and just felt it was important to say something…I just want people to stay safe. OK, I'm done now.


----------



## RWE

On the sand blasting and protective equipment, I use googles and I have a serious mask. Some wood I was working with a few years back was highly toxic, at least the saw dust was, so I picked up a good mask. (N100 Rated I believe)

Don't judge me by my results, just make allowances because I have good intentions. LOL

The Sargent was in rough shape. The toe is not a thing of beauty, but the baking improved the paint finish overall. Look more at the heel where there was not as much pitting. Looks pretty good on the heel to me. I had the paint on fairly thick and I believe that SARGENT is now easier to read. It cleaned that up very well.

The sole is flat. Will work it some more. The sides are within 3/100 of being square, as she sits after just cleaning it up a bit.

I am either in love or deranged for buying this fellow. I declare it was love. I want to rescue every plane that is in dire straits. Going out to the shop now to use a razor blade on those side tops.

One hour at 140 and one hour at 200 degrees. Dupli-Color, Gloss Black with Ceramic, Car Engine paint.

*That begs a question to Kenny and Sansoo. User primer or not. I used Grey Dupli-Color primer this time. Never used it before. Right or wrong?? Don W said he never used primer.*










This is what I was against on the toe:


----------



## HokieKen

Sansoo told me that on a olane ge primed that it prevented the baking from being effective RWE. I prime about half the time. If you look at my most recent blog post, you'll see the issue I discovered with using primer and then scraping the edges…. I believe Sansoo is swearing off primer and I'm inclined to agree. I've never found improved adhesion. I only really use it if I'm lazy about cleaning up the old finish and the casting. With sandblasting, I certainly don't think it's necessary.


----------



## RWE

Thanks Hokie. The Sargent will be the first and last one that I use it on I guess.

I keep coming up with questions. I did a study of the toe edge and heel edges of my planes. Some vintage planes, no refurb, had paint on the edges. Most did not. I guess if you wanted to be correct you would have to do a study on that point.

*Any opinion on that question? Paint or no paint on the toe and heel leading edges. Someone needs to do a study on that.*

This is the Sargent after doing the top edges. I am playing around with the idea of doing my own tote and knob, but am giving it the old college try with the originals. The rear tote was broken in half, got a pretty good repair on that, then added the top section. Using Oxalic Acid to get the two wood species to meld colors a bit better. Only one coat of acid so far. Probably will need three coats. The front knob is awful. Was water logged for years it seems, just real soft and punky, probably lost a 1/4 of its size from sanding.










Because it was in such bad shape with tote and knob, but was very square, I figured the plane Gods had lead me to it to make this: (Don W. shooting plane with custom grip) This is where I will probably go with it.


----------



## corelz125

Looks Good RWE


----------



## HokieKen

Miller Falls planes sometimes had paint on the top edges of the cheeks and on the heel and toe ends. And sometimes they didn't. And I haven't been able to nail down any specific time frame for one or the other. I've seen type 2s both ways and type 3s both ways. I don't recall seeing any type 1s with paint on those areas but I haven't seen all that many type 1s of any ilk. And I've never paid much attention to later types.

As for Stanley, Sargent etc, I couldn't tell you…


----------



## HokieKen

Somebody needs an ass kicking.


----------



## RWE

Explain yourself Hokie. Do you mean the red screw heads? Not being a Millers Falls guy, I am not sure what the ass kicking should be rendered about. Bad refurb on that fellow? Supposedly straight from an Estate Sale, so you may have to go to heaven or hell to to kick that ass. LOL.


----------



## Mosquito

lol Kenny, for some reason my first thought was someone's 7 year old got in to Mom (or Kenny's) nail polish and decided everything needed some lol


----------



## sansoo22

I am indeed swearing off primer. I used grey Dupi Color engine primer this time on 4 planes. I wanted to give it a fair chance and not just do one. I figured 4 planes would eliminate any bone head mistakes in my testing. Of those 4 one turned out mostly satisfactory. One has already been stripped back down and the other two…which are keepers for my own personal till…have gone back into the restore queue to be repainted.

My biggest complaints were cure times were off, semi gloss seems closer to gloss, and if you chip the paint you get BRIGHT GREY spots. I don't expect these planes to look awesome forever and chips in the finish are a pretty much unavoidable but that grey peeking thru just looks terrible.


----------



## bandit571

Could have been much worse…









Remember this Millers Falls No. 15? It also cost $45 + Tax…as is.








Everything that wasn't wood…now?









Look any better?









Has been is use, lately…


----------



## rad457

> Somebody needs an ass kicking.
> 
> - HokieKen


What you don't like my accent painting, was going to do flames down the sides 
By the way they rejected my bid on the M.F.s. #7, wouldn't ship to Canada again?


----------



## HokieKen

> Explain yourself Hokie. Do you mean the red screw heads? Not being a Millers Falls guy, I am not sure what the ass kicking should be rendered about. Bad refurb on that fellow? Supposedly straight from an Estate Sale, so you may have to go to heaven or hell to to kick that ass. LOL.
> 
> - RWE


If they're in heaven, I guess they're safe. If they're in hell though, I'll get there eventually.

While I'm not a purist and don't mind a "customized" plane, for some reason, painted hardware irritates me. And they painted the lateral lever and the depth adjuster too!


----------



## HokieKen

For some reason, yours irritates me less than the ebay one Bandit. But you made the right call returning it to original ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> By the way they rejected my bid on the M.F.s. #7, wouldn t ship to Canada again?
> 
> - Andre


Somebody snatched that thing quick. I thought it was overpriced but maybe not? I guess a T1 #7 is about as collectible as you can get with Millers Falls planes…


----------



## Notw

> Somebody needs an ass kicking.
> 
> - HokieKen


Something about lipstick and a pig…


----------



## Mosquito

Of course within weeks of getting a Record 041 and 042 in the shop, both came up back in stock at LN after a year+ wait…

Unrelated, anyone have a desire for any Record shoulder planes?


----------



## sansoo22

> Unrelated, anyone have a desire for any Record shoulder planes?
> 
> - Mosquito


I might. I only own one shoulder plane right now and its the ugly tribal pattern wood river. It performs well but there isn't a way to grip that thing where some piece of its design isnt trying to stab you.


----------



## Ocelot

A shoulder plane is something I do not have. If they work well and are not expensive, I'm not (particularly) partial to Staney. What are you asking for one?


----------



## Mosquito

lol Sansoo, I've not heard anyone describe the WoodRiver as tribal, but now that you say it I definitely see that lol

That's kind of the problem Ocelot, I'm probably in them for too much… Because they're not as common in the US (being not sold here); between the 041, 042, and 073 I'm in them for around $500, at $150, $165, $175 respectively (and the applicable shipping to get them to me). I didn't have intentions of selling them anytime soon, so I wasn't that worried about getting a screaming deal as much as I was looking for usable tools I could keep for a while.

They may just end up being the "tool chest set" or something, not sure


----------



## Ocelot

I've never sold a tool. I wouldn't if I were you.  Just buy more.


----------



## HokieKen

When you ask how much a tool is and the seller opens the response with:



> That s kind of the problem Ocelot, I m probably in them for too much…
> 
> - Mosquito


you know you're in trouble.


----------



## Mosquito

lol I'm among friends here Kenny, so I can be honest ;-)


----------



## Ocelot

I understand! Really, I do. And Mos probably understands that if I don't have a shouider plane, it's because I'm too cheap to pay the going rate, 'cause I've got lots of other tools.


----------



## sansoo22

I've got a couple planes I definitely overspent on because I wanted what I call a "turn key" user. My #71 and #45 were both on the high end but came as complete tools with all parts and accessories. For me those were a couple planes I just didn't feel like chasing down parts for. I think I could have bought the veritas router plane for about $40 more than I spent on my #71. And we don't speak of what the #45 cost since it came in box and I'm pretty sure I was the first person to ever use it.


----------



## HokieKen

Don't even get me started on overspending on a 45. I got totally hosed on mine.

(Not really. Just givin' Mos some crap ;-p)


----------



## rad457

So where would 2 #46's fall in this discussion? We won't mention the 4 #5s that showed up in one week(1 M.F.s 
1 Winchester and 2 Stanley baileys) But I do have a killer set of blades for the #46s  even flattened and sharp!


----------



## Mosquito

I didn't say I paid too much, just that I'm in tuneful for too much if/when selling 

It's not too much if it's worth it to me, just too much to sell to you (unless it's the right you, where's OF, he's got a record… Lol)


----------



## corelz125

Lol I think most of us been there and over paid. Ebay can be a dangerous place when you get caught up in a bidding war. Then when the smoke clears and you get that invoice and say to yourself. What did I just do? Then we just hit the pay now button.


----------



## sansoo22

Ken - here is a couple images of what my last or next to last coat looks like on my planes. It is more art than exact science though. One coat to many and it won't "shrink" down properly to give crisp lettering and one coat to few and the whole body can orange peel.

Type 16 toe last coat









Type 16 toe after baking









They are different planes of course but same exact paint technique on both. I don't know how else to explain it besides you want an "Oh CRAP i just flooded it" type of look.

I will do a blog write up again soon with an entire break down of the pain process. I just wanted to throw this out for now since I had a couple type 16s in various states I could snap pics of.


----------



## corelz125

Just got this Record 311. Got it for a ok price and it was on this side of the pond. Pretty beefy. Mouth is a little beat up and missing one part but I think a guy with a big pile of scrap steel might be able to make it.


----------



## HokieKen

I know a guy with a big pile of steel Corelz ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

That's much thicker than I put it on Sansoo. Maybe I need to just go thicker. I'm considering spraying a couple of more coats over top of the plane I'm working on now after I'm sure what I've done already is fully cured. The more I scrutinize it, the more it feels "thin" and the less I like the flatness of the Rustoleum enamel. I'm thinking 2 coats of Duplicor semigloss on top will right my wrongs. I may regret it but worst case is it goes back in the blast cabinet.


----------



## corelz125

Almost brought some 1 1/8" by 1" circles home for you Kenny


----------



## Mosquito

> Lol I think most of us been there and over paid. Ebay can be a dangerous place when you get caught up in a bidding war. Then when the smoke clears and you get that invoice and say to yourself. What did I just do? Then we just hit the pay now button.
> 
> - corelz125


Ha, I don't think I overpaid but I wouldn't call them a screaming deal either. I'd bet I could move them for what I have in them, just maybe not as quick as say half that. Only the 073 came from eBay, and I think there was only around 5 bids on it including mine (and I only entered my one bid). It wasn't a big mistake or a heat of the moment thing, it's just what I was willing to pay for what I wanted. It's just that the timing could have been better on the 041 and 042 lol


----------



## DevinT

Hey Kenny, ever seen an MF like this one ?


----------



## bandit571

Great Neck Corsair C-4


----------



## HokieKen

> Hey Kenny, ever seen an MF like this one ?
> 
> - DevinT


Wow. No I haven't. Haven't ever seen anything like that at all. At first I thought it was a different plane somebody put a MF lever cap on. But I haven't ever even seen a lever cap like that either. Even their later years economy models weren't that sad. If it was appropriately priced, I'd probably buy it just so I could do some 'vestigatin'. But it's at about 600% of what I'd be willing to pay so I guess I won't.

Thanks for linking it though  Has anyone else ever seen a MF this pathetic? It's not even mentioned on the crappy planes page at oldtoolheaven.



















On another MF note, there's a fairly nice Buck Rogers Jack currently up for auction.


----------



## HokieKen

> Great Neck Corsair C-4
> 
> - bandit571


Corsair! That's what was ticklin' the back of my mind that I just couldn't conjure to the front. I knew the knob was familiar  Have you ever seen a lever cap like that though Bandit?


----------



## HokieKen

> Almost brought some 1 1/8" by 1" circles home for you Kenny
> 
> - corelz125


You're supposed to be sending me work to use up some of the 500# of steel you already sent me, not more steel ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

> ... But I do have a killer set of blades for the #46s  even flattened and sharp!
> 
> - Andre


You're a step ahead of me, I still only have one sharpened that I honed up just to test it out. I haven't even gotten my 46 shined up yet. I do like it an awful lot for cutting grooves/dadoes/rabbets based on a few test cuts though


----------



## Notw

Found this picture on the interwebs this morning, may be my new life goal


----------



## BlasterStumps

I looked long and hard for a Corsair plane at one time. I wanted the plastic tote for my old Delta 1172 tenoning jig. Never came up with one at the time so I ended up making a wooden tote.


----------



## DevinT

I see a Stanley No 37 "Jenny" transitional at top right in that photo. I am jealous.


----------



## corelz125

Have some of the stuff ready to come your way Kenny. Figure you're already neck deep in projects right now.


----------



## HokieKen

> Have some of the stuff ready to come your way Kenny. Figure you re already neck deep in projects right now.
> 
> - corelz125


Always am… Just send it on and I'll work it in ;-)


----------



## RWE

Thanks for the picture Notw. Can you share the link where you found it. I figure I am somewhere around 1/30 to 1/50 in comparison. However, as big a fraction as that is, I am ahead of Kenny.

Kind of makes me want to do a group picture of my users (will not say "collection").


----------



## Notw

> Thanks for the picture Notw. Can you share the link where you found it. I figure I am somewhere around 1/30 to 1/50 in comparison. However, as big a fraction as that is, I am ahead of Kenny.
> 
> - RWE


Not sure if the link helps as it only takes you to imgur, not sure where the original is from


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm..not all of the Great Neck planes had those very uncomfortable plastic handles…



























Plastic handles came out later than this one..


----------



## RWE

Well, after studying the collection I have more 45's than he does (or at least he displays). 3 to 1 as best I can tell. Mos can beat him on that I am sure. Very nice collection. I did not know there were as many spokeshave models. Also impressive is the number of blocks and transitionals.

I was giving up "acquiring more users" and now I feel the fire burning again.


----------



## HokieKen

> Found this picture on the interwebs this morning, may be my new life goal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Notw


Meh. Not a single red frog in the whole lot! ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

> Great Neck Corsair C-4
> 
> - bandit571
> 
> Corsair! That s what was ticklin the back of my mind that I just couldn t conjure to the front. I knew the knob was familiar  Have you ever seen a lever cap like that though Bandit?
> 
> - HokieKen


The cap looks similar to the ones that normally come on Corsairs (that say Corsair) but it just has Millers Falls cast in the same trapezoidal indention. 

















The iron on the MF does look beefier that what I would expect on what was probably a cheap plane.


----------



## RWE

Hokie:

You ain't woke. Your discriminatory views are very outdated. Red, Orange, Black Frogs, we are all equal planes. Wake up and get woke. Why, even I have room for Sargents and Stanleys and a token Millers Falls.


----------



## HokieKen

All men may be created equal RWE. But they created planes that are not. And I have certain inalienable rights. Like life, liberty and the pursuit of superior planes!


----------



## HokieKen

> The cap looks similar to the ones that normally come on Corsairs (that say Corsair) but it just has Millers Falls cast in the same trapezoidal indention.
> 
> - Lazyman


Good eye. Maybe Great Neck made bargain planes for MF in the 80's after they moved to NJ and changed the name to Millers Falls Tool Company. While doing some sleuthing to see if maybe Ingersoll Rand owned Great Neck at the same time they owned Millers Falls, I found that the Millers Falls trademark is still registered. To HANGZHOU GREAT STAR INDUSTRIAL CO. in China.

My soul died a little bit this morning.


----------



## Mosquito

Some things are better left unknown…


----------



## RWE

> All men may be created equal RWE. But they created planes that are not. And I have certain inalienable rights. Like life, liberty and the pursuit of superior planes!
> 
> - HokieKen


Well it is time to start your Sargent collection then!

Your earnest appreciation of all things Millers Falls is admirable. Makes me want to try out that new to me MF Jack.


----------



## HokieKen

> Well it is time to start your Sargent collection then!
> 
> Your earnest appreciation of *all things* Millers Falls is admirable. Makes me want to try out that new to me MF Jack.
> 
> - RWE


I would say "most things pre-1960" is more accurate ;-)


----------



## donwilwol

He probably shouldn't start a Sargent collection. I'd hate to see all those millers falls suddenly on the market!


----------



## drsurfrat

> Found this picture on the interwebs this morning, may be my new life goal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Notw


Wow, I have had my hands on many of those, but never all at once and NEVER that well displayed. I think the most impressive thing in the whole picture is the plug outlet: the collector isn't even in the US.


----------



## RWE

This back and forth on which plane is the best reminds me of College Football.

Hokie pulls for Millers Falls, but they are in the ACC, not a very strong league and relatively new to real football. Now that we know they have Chinese money involved, what will happen?

Mos is for old Keen Kutters, they are an Independent, not league affiliated. Hard for them to make the playoffs, but they play hard.

Sargent and Stanley are both in the SEC, more money, more tradition, more history and more winners.


----------



## HokieKen

I tried to lower the border fence and let a Sargent into the shop just yesterday. I bid on a 507 with an ugly but well-done braze job. But even that Humpty Dumpty went above my max bid…

I have several Stanleys and a couple of Records. There are some planes Millers Falls just didn't make ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

If MF played college football, they'd definitely be in the ACC. And I don't really think they're better than Stanley, Sargent, etc. But a knob that won't spin and a red frog makes me smile


----------



## RWE

I did not mean to get under your skin. Just a little levity!!

I forgot to mention that Team Millers Falls did that gosh awful new fangled uniform for a while. I believe they called it the Buck Rogers uniform.

Allegiance to college teams can be a passionate thing and that is what this whole plane allegiance thing reminds me of. At least you have a league affiliation. Poor ole Mos and the early Keen Kutter team are just trying to get recognition on the national scene.


----------



## HokieKen

Oh, you didn't get under my skin at all ;-) I'm far less passionate about my planes than I am my Hokies ))


----------



## RWE

Quoting the late great Lewis Grizzard:

"I said the blessing before we had lunch. I thanked the Lord for three things: fried chicken, potato salad and for the fact he had allowed me the privilege of being a Bulldog. "And , Dear Lord," I prayed, "bless all those not as fortunate as I."

Go Dawgs!


----------



## HokieKen

At least you didn't say Roll Tide!


----------



## Ocelot

In Alabama, people have diverged into two species. Bama fans and Auburn fans rarely even socialize with each other let alone cross-breed. :0


----------



## DevinT

Over here in California, we have not one but two rivalries. UCLA vs USC or Stanford vs Berkeley. Take your pick. I know the latter rivalry started when one of the two schools (who shall remain nameless) stole a goat from the other in the 1970's which quickly escalated.


----------



## HokieKen

I think the less breeding taking place in Alabama the better it is for all of us. No offense Paul ;-)


----------



## Ocelot

Hey! I resent that! I'm actually a football agnostic, but I have 6 children!
[Edited to remove photos]


----------



## Notw

Got to agree with Ken on this one Go Hokies! been a lifelong Hokie fan


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

He's got me on trannys and shaves. I got him on everything else. I think. Maybe. ;-)


----------



## RWE

I live in a house divided. I am a Dawg (Georgia for the uninitiated), Wife is a Bammer and Daughter is Awbern.
I can tolerate the Bammers, but I despise the Awbern Tiger/Plainsmen/War Eagles mainly because they have an identity problem. Anyway Awbern is wandering in the wilderness and the Bammers are on the fade. Them Dawgs will rise to their proper status at the top of the pyramid. That is what I have been saying for the last 20 or 30 years at least.

Funny thing about the whole football thing is that in the South, the Sixties were the Seventies. In the early 70's I was a full blown hippie, hair and all of that, and I never went to a football game when I was at Georgia. That would have been uncool for a hipster. After the Vietnam war ended, I did not recognize the campus anymore. No more draft dodgers and non-serious students, just regular kids.

My whole football mania thing began with Hershel Walker and the 1980 National Championship season when he was there.

Maybe there is a hippie thing with this woodworking deal. I just read an article on Christian Becksvoort that said he went west to join a commune at one point, back in the day.

Too long on this rather stupid departure from planes. I cease. Just a little levity, very little levity. One last thing, I don't think I would talk about Alabama with the usual looking down the nose things that people do. The state is a beautiful place from the Northern mountainous/hill county to the Gulf coast. I used to fly a lot and I heard many people say they felt that way until they were transferred in or what ever, then they would always say, they would never leave.


----------



## Ocelot

> [...] I don t think I would talk about Alabama with the usual looking down the nose things that people do. The state is a beautiful place from the Northern mountainous/hill county to the Gulf coast. I used to fly a lot and I heard many people say they felt that way until they were transferred in or what ever, then they would always say, they would never leave.
> 
> - RWE


Shhhh. Keep it quiet.

I met a guy from Chicago one February day, one of those days with blue sky from ear to ear, in the 50's. He was biking on a trail. Said he would never go back to Chicago.

And Walnut grows around here like weeds, literally. On my 3 acres, it's about the most common volunteer tree exceot for the oaks.

... and if you saw up the Walnut you can plane it with some of these dreamy planes. (just getting back on track here.)


----------



## bandit571

Shhh…I am a Buckeye….leave it at that.

Although…I have NEVER had a Millers Falls plane chatter…..and..their irons are thicker than the Stanley ones.

Equal Opportunity Employer in my shop…


----------



## HokieKen

I was totally kidding about the 'Bama breeding Paul ;-) I've only spent time travelling through Alabama but I wouldn't be upset about living there other than having to listen to the Tide fans. They're obnoxious enough here in VA, I can't imagine having to live in the same state with them!

To be fair to Bandit though, OSU fans aren't much better ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

My college couldn't win a game against any of your team but at least the mascot is not a mutt, turkey or seed pod. Ours carries carries a weapon and threatens to use it. Axe 'em Jacks!


----------



## corelz125

Up here in NY we don't have any big college football. Syracuse is the only school with a big football program and they aren't very good and also far away. Only rivalries here are pro hockey and baseball.


----------



## RWE

Lazyman:

Have some respect for the mutt as you call him. Real story. I had a part time job for the first year at Georgia installing TV antennas for a TV store. I pull up to a house, ring the bell and an English Bulldog comes after me. All you could see was this massive head and teeth. The lady of the house took a broom and began whacking that bulldog with everything she could muster down on its head and it was literally spinning its wheels with each whack she applied. In the meantime, I ran and jumped into the back of the pickup truck with that "dawg" hard on my heels.

I barely escaped. I think I would rather confront your Axe'em Jacks fellow than to have another run in with that "mutt".

A Georgia fan hates a Georgia Tech fan. They call themselves Yellow Jackets. We call them gnats. One day a swarm of those gnats sent me to the emergency room. 20 or 30 bites from where they chased me around the house. My hands were blue and pulsating from too much toxin. To make matters worse, it was right at the beginning of a Georgia game.

Respect the mascots.

Just not sure of that whole Turkey thing. Turkeys don't scare me much. A Buckeye up against the head might hurt a bit.

I lied, got off topic again, but back to the handplane stuff now.


----------



## RWE

On the hand plane thing. Are the Millers Falls irons really thicker? I have one MF Jack, so I guess I will have to verify what Bandit said. I trust the Bandit, but just got to know for sure. I agree with Mos on the thick iron KK planes because I have similar irons in some old wooden planes. They do cut well when they are thicker. I just don't find any KK planes to buy, or I would get one. I am an equal opportunity fellow with my obsessions for planes like Bandit, just have more Stanley and Sargent at this point.


----------



## HokieKen

Ever been Turkey hunting? You get a big Tom bearing down on you cause he thinks you're a hen in heat and you'll remember that bull dog fondly.

I think we can all agree though, that one thing we don't fear are orange men Corelz ;-)

And yellow jackets are my mortal enemies. I get into a nest of em about twice a year and have yet to win one of those battles. I've never gotten it bad enough to go to the emergency room though. A little swelling for a couple of days is about as bad as it's ever been. But I get a little more sensitized every year as I get older…


----------



## HokieKen

MF irons are a but thicker than Stanley IIRC. Around 1/64" I think. But they're also through hardened along the full length instead of only partially hardened and/or laminated. So I think they probably have a slight advantage over Stanley but I wouldn't pick a dog in that fight if it came right down to it. They're nowhere near as thick as the KK irons.


----------



## RWE

If a turkey is so deranged that he thinks I might be a hen in heat, then I am scared of that Turkey. LOL


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> My college couldn t win a game against any of your team but at least the mascot is not a mutt, turkey or seed pod. Ours carries carries a weapon and threatens to use it. Axe em Jacks!
> 
> - Lazyman


My kid will be a Lumberjack this fall…not SFA (assuming that's where you went) but NAU. A school that doesn't compete well in college football either.


----------



## KentInOttawa

A mixed bag of tricks here. Stanleys from Canada, USA and Mexico, but not England or Australia. Also some no-names, an Este & a Woden. The only Sargents and Sargent-made (Winchester) are block planes. Not shown are the Records and an EP Preston (rabbet, shoulder and plough) and a wooden soviet rabbet.










Almost everything gets used sometimes. I'll usually switch planes before I mess with the adjustments on one that is working well as it is.


----------



## RWE

Nice collection of users Kent. That picture today of the Stanley collection got me interested in block planes and the variations in them. I would like to see the Sargent blocks and the Winchester/Sargent block if you get the time. Plus any of the other blocks that are more unusual but good users.


----------



## sansoo22

> He's got me on trannys and shaves. I got him on everything else. I think. Maybe. ;-)
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Some day I would like to see your entire collection of planes. I'm sure its quite a site to behold. I don't have near as many as in that image. Mine just happen to all be rather stupidly shiny.


----------



## ac0rn

> Ever been Turkey hunting? You get a big Tom bearing down on you cause he thinks you're a hen in heat and you'll remember that bull dog fondly.
> 
> I think we can all agree though, that one thing we don't fear are orange men Corelz ;-)
> 
> And yellow jackets are my mortal enemies. I get into a nest of em about twice a year and have yet to win one of those battles. I've never gotten it bad enough to go to the emergency room though. A little swelling for a couple of days is about as bad as it's ever been. But I get a little more sensitized every year as I get older…
> 
> - HokieKen


Talk with your Physician about an epei pen. Should my younger brother get bit or stung the pin helps keep him breathing until the ER. He looks like the Pillsbury dough boy.


----------



## rad457

> I tried to lower the border fence and let a Sargent into the shop just yesterday. I bid on a 507 with an ugly but well-done braze job. But even that Humpty Dumpty went above my max bid…
> 
> I have several Stanleys and a couple of Records. There are some planes Millers Falls just didn t make ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Ya forgot about the Veritas that was on my wish list that they shipped to you by mistake? Thus forcing me to buy that New SW #62 
Have found that the casting and some blades are heavier on most English made Stanleys? Kept a England made #78 over a made in the USA one because of the weight difference (also better condition NIB 
An if ya need a real "Straight shooting" plane, got be a Winchester!


----------



## Lazyman

> My college couldn t win a game against any of your team but at least the mascot is not a mutt, turkey or seed pod. Ours carries carries a weapon and threatens to use it. Axe em Jacks!
> 
> - Lazyman
> 
> My kid will be a Lumberjack this fall…not SFA (assuming that's where you went) but NAU. A school that doesn't compete well in college football either.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


Yup. SFA. I am probably going to be in Flagstaff in a couple of weeks. I may have to check out the campus while I am there.

I wonder if the chant at a VT game has anything to do with threats of turkeys molesting members of the the other team? ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

That's not a threat, it's a promise!


----------



## HokieKen

Yep Andre, I did forget Veritas! I have the LAJ and also a corner-trimming block plane. I expect I'll add their 112 to the collection too. The prices on the vintage ones are too rich for me.

Jeff - 20 years ago, I could wade through a swarm of yellow jackets to pick the wild blackberries they guarded. 10 years ago, they started to hurt. These days, they hurt like a mofo and I get some localized inflammation around the sting site for a day or two. So given the projection of my reaction severity, I made need that epipen by the time I hit fifty.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Nice collection of users Kent. That picture today of the Stanley collection got me interested in block planes and the variations in them. I would like to see the Sargent blocks and the Winchester/Sargent block if you get the time. Plus any of the other blocks that are more unusual but good users.
> 
> - RWE


Well, this is going to be disappointing. ;-)

Here are the blocks that I use most often: a Stanley 140; a Stanley 60 1/2 that stays on the bench (there are 2 others in the queue); and a modern 100 knock-off from Lee Valley in Kunz Green livery. I like the relatively tight (low lash) screw adjusters for depth on the two Stanleys and I like the smaller size and weight of the 60 1/2 combined with the low angle bed. It just feels and works right for me.










The bunch that I consider to be Sargent-made planes with a Stanley 9 1/2 for comparison. Next to the Stanley is a Winchester knuckle that I figure is made by Sargent based upon the throat adjuster which is different than the Stanley's. The next 2 just say Made in USA but the throat adjuster on the one just screams Sargent to me, as does the depth adjuster on the broken 220-equivalent plane. That one is available for the cost of shipping if someone needs the parts. FWIW, I absolutely despise the vertical screw adjusters that are anything at all like the 9 1/2










Damn. There are three of them!










Next are some planes that I just haven't unloaded yet. I'll sometimes buy a lot of planes to get the one that I want, which explains things like the 110s, 120s, 220s and variants in the shop. When I get visitors, especially novice woodworkers in the shop, I'll use these to show the difference that the various features make (depth adjusters, bed angle, adjustable mouths, etc). Then I'll donate one of these with the explanation that "it will work while you learn but it will also educate you on the value of upgrading" and "it will help you learn what is important for you".










One surprising one in this bunch is a post-WWII West German-made Tum with an interesting screw depth adjuster. While it's not all that easy to precisely adjust this plane, it is still far superior to similarly-sized 110s et al.


----------



## sansoo22

Is it block plane day?










I don't have that many. All the knuckle caps are Smitty's fault and the 140 is Ken's fault. The lone non Stanley in the bunch is the first plane I ever restored…i was not so good back then.


----------



## HokieKen

Smitty got me onto knuckle caps too  I only have one so far but I really like the feel a lot so I expect to have another on the way in a couple days if the bidding goes right. Neither the one I have or the one I want say Stanley on them though ;-) And if the 140 was really my fault, it would be an 07


----------



## Ocelot

The thing I like about block planes is you can put quite few in a cardboard box labled "block planes" and put it on a shelf. Bench planes take up a lot more space.


----------



## RWE

Many thanks Kent.

I too favor the 60 1/2. I covet the 140. I keep reading and seeing folks on YouTube carrying on about skewed block planes.

I have one of those squirrel tail planes but I don't use it much. It was part of a box of planes that I bought from a fellow nearby and may have been the best deal of my life. Got a very early #94 shoulder plane and the two little fellows, violin makers planes, plus a very early Stanley 6 for around $100.

Here is my block and violin makers group, plus a shot with the 94.

Violin makers, 60 1/2, 9 1/2, Keen Kutter KK65, Millers Falls 75.










No markings on the 94, just the Stanley on the depth adjuster. That makes it the first version of the 94 according to Leach. If I had to rate all the planes I have acquired, the 94, a 608 and the 60 1/2 would be the top three.



















As always, need to clean up the shop.


----------



## rad457

Kenny, I have the Veritas #112 and have found it kind of a pain to set up? For my crude ham fisted approach the #81 and or the Veritas version work better Actually have probably used my Brass L.N. #212 more
As always gathered up most of my users only to remember that M.F.s #4 that is stashed in the tool box. 
Do wooden Krenov planes count?


----------



## bandit571

I really do not feel like digging out all 17 block planes in the shop….then I'd have to put them away…Have a Stanley No. 9-1/2 sitting on my bench tool tray, ( where it can't waddle off onto the floor..)

I think there MIGHT be a Great Neck block plane,,,somewhere….there is also a Worthington from Cleveland, OH. And..there is a Marsh block plane. And a Shelton No. 18….and a AMF 110…


----------



## DevinT

It would be a sad photo from me. Just a lone Veritas apron plane and a violin maker's plane. That's it. That's all I have. I might just take the photo just to participate.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Lazyman:
> Have some respect for the mutt as you call him. Real story. I had a part time job for the first year at Georgia installing TV antennas for a TV store. I pull up to a house, ring the bell and an English Bulldog comes after me. All you could see was this massive head and teeth. The lady of the house took a broom and began whacking that bulldog with everything she could muster down on its head and it was literally spinning its wheels with each whack she applied. In the meantime, I ran and jumped into the back of the pickup truck with that "dawg" hard on my heels.
> 
> I barely escaped. I think I would rather confront your Axe em Jacks fellow than to have another run in with that "mutt".


Yiou must have different Engish bulldogs than we do in England


----------



## Ocelot

That bulldog would make a fine footstool. He doen't look like he would mind!


----------



## RWE

Imagine that Bulldawg has some of that Turkey in him. He mistakes you for a beautiful fine female bulldawg in heat, then comes after you??

All I can tell you was that it was no joke. I don't exaggerate about the lady beating him with the broom on the head. I had been bitten by a German Shepard when I was about 12 years old and wanted no part of that fellow. I take it that he was a temperamental sort of fellow, because the lady acted like it was common practice to have that kind of thing happen. I had about a 20 yard run to the rear of the pickup and jumped up on the bumper with the dawg jumping after me. Luckily he missed on the bumper and I got into the back and was safe. The whole time I was running the lady was keeping pace and wacking him as we ran. Those blows would set him back a bit and enabled me to escape.

You do know they were breed to herd bulls?

I think I like your English English Bulldog much better MikeB.

I think our mascot was justified in trying to get that Awbern player.


----------



## rad457

> It would be a sad photo from me. Just a lone Veritas apron plane and a violin maker s plane. That s it. That s all I have. I might just take the photo just to participate.
> 
> - DevinT


I try to use the Veritas apron plane because of the PMV-11 iron, but darn, that Brass LN 102 just feels so good
The DX60 is by far the best performer except when ya need to get in close and personal, then the LN Rabbet gets pulled out. LOL did have a Windriver 60 1/2 that actual got tossed into a scrap metal bin!


----------



## controlfreak

I remember that game when "UGA" almost got an Auburn snack. One of my customers has that blown up in his game room.

Clemson fan here, it helps that we have had a good run lately. They took my money for three kids tuition so some decent football may be my repayment. I have no idea how this year will go.

Kenny, Biden changed it in his last speech, it is now "Life, Liberty, etc." so I guess a quality plane can fit in.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> I really do not feel like digging out all 17 block planes in the shop….then I d have to put them away…
> 
> - bandit571


I hear ya, Bandit!

Nice knuckle blocks! ;-)


----------



## RWE

Smitty or Bandit:

What is it about the knuckle plane that you like. Just the feel and handling? Never held one and I don't believe I have ever seen one. Keeping my eyes open for one.


----------



## bandit571

Just the way that cap iron settles into the palm of your hand….Nothing sharp to dig in.


----------



## HokieKen

+1 from me. The knuckle caps are just the most comfortable to me. The big, smooth, round surface just suits my hand better.


----------



## donwilwol

Here is a couple older pictures


----------



## donwilwol

And since we're talking block planes, https://www.timetestedtools.net/2019/05/22/the-simple-block-plane/


----------



## corelz125

Sansoo that little green one in the middle is a craftsman?


----------



## sansoo22

> Sansoo that little green one in the middle is a craftsman?
> 
> - corelz125


Yep and as far as I can tell it's never been used. I used to have a box for it but left that out in the shop to long. It kind of came apart because I dont have AC in there….wasn't in great shape to begin with.


----------



## corelz125

I have the same one. There's something about it that makes me want to keep it. Was thinking about giving it away but changed my mind.

Don what's that low angle off to the corner over there?


----------



## sansoo22

I've almost sold it a few times but something about that hammered green paint makes me keep it. Been half ass keeping an eye out for a smoother or jack to go with it.


----------



## corelz125

Have you used it yet? Mine is still in the to do pile. Funny I thought I was the only one that was drawn in by the little green guy.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice displays Don Yoda!


----------



## rad457

> I ve almost sold it a few times but something about that hammered green paint makes me keep it. Been half ass keeping an eye out for a smoother or jack to go with it.
> 
> - sansoo22












This the color you looking for? Shipping probable more than what he plane is worth? Make me an offer with your Zip and I will see what shipping will cost.


----------



## donwilwol

> I ve almost sold it a few times but something about that hammered green paint makes me keep it. Been half ass keeping an eye out for a smoother or jack to go with it.
> 
> - sansoo22
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This the color you looking for? Shipping probable more than what he plane is worth? Make me an offer with your Zip and I will see what shipping will cost.
> 
> - Andre


Regional A priority box should be $8-$10. Probably about the cheapest way


----------



## HokieKen

Andre is in Canada Don. I doubt he can ship the depth adjuter for $10.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Andre is in Canada Don. I doubt he can ship the depth adjuter for $10.
> 
> - HokieKen


That's only funny 'cuz it's true.


----------



## DevinT

Anyone ever seen a plane like this before?

It's like a bronze LN but Norris based?

GTL Bronze Hand Plane


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Anyone ever seen a plane like this before?
> 
> It's like a bronze LN but Norris based?
> 
> GTL Bronze Hand Plane
> 
> - DevinT


Yeah, keep trying to get one on the cheap so I can have a play, it's in good nick that one


----------



## DevinT

Good user or looking to collect it?


----------



## MikeB_UK

Oh, and the best thing I've ever heard anyone say about them is that they shine up well.

Meant to be absolutely terrible.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Good user or looking to collect it?
> 
> - DevinT


Morbid curiosity - same reason I have a shelton


----------



## DevinT

Yeah, that metal looks really thin. Can't say I would expect the same kind of performance out of that GTL compared to a bronze LN.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Problem isn't with the brass so much as the build and design.

Was brought in as a cheap option to the new stanley baileys in the 20's/30's? aimed at people who were used to the norris. Build quality meant to be pretty grim.

Soles aren't even close to flat, although brass easier to lap than steel 
Build quality pretty grim.
The (not) norris adjuster doesn't do lateral adjustment


----------



## sansoo22

Sometimes there is a reason you find old planes with full length irons and shiny nickel…they sucked from the day there were born.

Look how far that lateral has to be adjusted to get an even cut









Bridge City, PEC, and Starrett squares all ruled out chip breaker and iron as the culprit so it was down to mating surfaces. The bottom of the frog was definitely machined poorly and had about a 32 nd of an inch high spot on it. I've been dye printing and filing for a couple hours trying to get this thing to seat properly. When I started there wasn't enough play in the lateral to get the iron even.

It cuts well and is going through cherry like it doesn't exist…and I didn't even check my grain pattern. I just don't like the adjuster being that far over when I know my iron and breaker are dead on square.


----------



## HokieKen

Any chance the lateral lever is bent or pinned off-center Sansoo? That can cause the same symptoms. For that matter, is the slot in the iron centered?


----------



## sansoo22

> Any chance the lateral lever is bent or pinned off-center Sansoo? That can cause the same symptoms. For that matter, is the slot in the iron centered?
> 
> - HokieKen


Didn't even think to check for an off center lateral and it is indeed pinned off center by 1/64th on the right side. Could explain why that corner of the iron is always low.

This whole thing was a mess and I wish I had checked it better before painting it. Mouth was out of square but I fixed the back edge so its coplaner with the frog. I even dye printed it before it hit the blasting cabinet to make sure I was getting flat mating surfaces. I just didn't account for poor machining causing the frog to lean to the right side.

Now that I know its also pinned off center I think I'm going to leave it as is. Either sell it at a discount or wait and see if I find a cheap replacement frog for it.


----------



## HokieKen

Is the bed on the frog roughly parallel to the mouth? If not, it would be the machining. If it's worth it to you, I can mill just enough off the bed to square it up with the machined pads on the bottom. Just shipping both ways will cover it. It'll be up to you to figure out whether or not that will resolve the problem though ;-)


----------



## sansoo22

I must be having a bad day…i could of swore the slot in the iron was square. Never occurred to me to pop the iron and breaker out of the other type 18 #5, or the type 19, or the type 16 or grab a spare iron from my drawer full of them. All of my damn fettling the frog must have paid off in some way or another. I dropped the iron and breaker from the other type 18 in and it sits near dead square and even without touching the lateral adjuster.


----------



## HokieKen

That's about the best case scenario 

I didn't get much done today but I did get a frog Red-dy. Yucca yucca.


----------



## sansoo22

You're making me want more Miller Falls planes than the 2 I have with that red and black combo.

I spent more time than I should have redeeming myself with the other type 18 #5.


















Effortless transparent shavings in cherry and walnut are good enough for me. Now I can call it a day and clean up the mess I made tomorrow.


----------



## bandit571

Clean up, aisle 1!...









Stanley No. 9-1/2…..have a knot causing problems in the bench top…


----------



## HokieKen

You don't want that Sansoo. Then you have to keep two colors of duplicolor on hand. It's a terrible hardship ;-)


----------



## BlasterStumps

i bought a Stanley 65 low angle block in Denver at an antique shop that was with it's original box. Thought I was getting a bargain at the price I paid for it. When I got back home and tried to use it, I discovered the casting was cut wrong at the mouth. I spent quite a bit of time messing with it filing the casting to level it out. finally got it but what a lesson. Still prefer my Craftsman low angle block.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Anyone ever seen a plane like this before?
> 
> It's like a bronze LN but Norris based?
> 
> GTL Bronze Hand Plane
> 
> - DevinT


And looks like I now own one, although in, err, slightly foxed condition.

Ebay win










Wouldn't have paid that just for the GTL, but chuck in some decent old irons and I'm in


----------



## HokieKen

Dang, just missed this one.


----------



## HokieKen

A good candidate for some Sansoo TLC. So far the bid makes it worthwhile to flip or keep.


----------



## sansoo22

> A good candidate for some Sansoo TLC. So far the bid makes it worthwhile to flip or keep.
> 
> - HokieKen


I tossed in a few bids but still didn't make it past someone's highest. Pretty sure that got won on a snipe. Winning bid came in exactly 10 seconds before time ran out.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> I tossed in a few bids but still didn t make it past someone s highest. Pretty sure that got won on a snipe. Winning bid came in exactly 10 seconds before time ran out.
> 
> - sansoo22


I don't worry about sniping anymore - bid what I'm happy to pay and if someone beats it in the last week or second, doens't make a difference, just bid and then don't look again.

Probably saved me a ton, if someone beats my bid a couple of days before then I'm tempted to up it


----------



## HokieKen

It wasn't worth that in the condition it's in IMO. You can get a decent #18 for around $75 if you're patient.


----------



## HokieKen

Picked up another MF knuckle block


----------



## BlasterStumps

Good find Kenny. Should clean up real nice. I looked around to see if I had a lever for the sliding front but I don't got one. : (

I'm still waiting on the mitre box. No word yet but hopefully the first part of this coming week. (fingers crossed)


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, what box are you getting?


----------



## drsurfrat

> I don t worry about sniping anymore - bid what I m happy to pay and if someone beats it in the last week or second, doens t make a difference, just bid and then don t look again.
> 
> - MikeB_UK


Sound practice. I take what I know it's worth, add 5 or 10 bucks, and bid that. If a sniper gets it, they paid too much. Stress / regret / second guessing is on them, not me.

Kenny, I might have a throat adjuster from a Stanley if you think it will fit.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Mike. I'm gonna try one off one of my Stanleys and see


----------



## corelz125

$84.50 thats a good price for that 112. I was trying for awhile to get one under $100. Came across a Sargent #59 got that one instead. For a little over $100


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Pictures, for today…









haven't posted one for a while..









They have been working out, lately….


----------



## HokieKen

> $84.50 thats a good price for that 112. I was trying for awhile to get one under $100. Came across a Sargent #59 got that one instead. For a little over $100
> 
> - corelz125


My bid would have put me at $100 with tax and shipping. I decided that's the number that makes a vintage one make sense. Any more than that and I'll just go with a new Veritas. That one is probably the closest I've come to winning one in my budget.


----------



## Mosquito

Well, it's official… I now have enough shoulder planes to start a family photo.


----------



## BlasterStumps

tof, it is a Goodell-Pratt 1285B from somewhere around the late 30's to early 40's I think. The pictures I have seen show ball bearings in the saw guides. I'm hoping they are all in place. It is missing the length stop hardware. : (


----------



## sansoo22

That's awesome Mos…and for some reason I really want to introduce those Record planes to my buffer.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Wow Mos, what in seven types of blueberrys are ya gonna do with that many shoulder planes? Nice group. I like the big Record.


----------



## Airframer

> Wow Mos, what in seven types of blueberrys are ya gonna do with that many shoulder planes? Nice group. I like the big Record.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Plane a bunch of shoulders duh


----------



## sansoo22

> Plane a bunch of shoulders duh
> 
> - Airframer


If you're ambidextrous its a time saving to have two sets. You plane one shoulder with each hand and get twice as much work done.


----------



## Mosquito

I'll have to make a jig to plane all 4 sides at once lol

And yeah, the 042 is in need of some love. The 041 is quite nice, and the 073 is somewhere in the middle lol


----------



## ac0rn

I use Stanley smoothers, and am satisfied. I am however intrigued by the Ulmia horned smoother. Opinions?


----------



## Notw

Jeff, I know nothing about them nor have never used them but Stumpy Nubs did a video on wood bodies planes and the horned ones just looked like they would be comfortable


----------



## MikeB_UK

> I use Stanley smoothers, and am satisfied. I am however intrigued by the Ulmia horned smoother. Opinions?
> 
> - Jeff


One with a mechanical adjuster or hammer adjust?

I like wooden planes, use them a lot, not got anything by Ulmia though.

Horned planes are quite nice to use though, this is a dirt cheap Aldi one I got that works well as a smoother, my main scrub plane is a Pinie horned.


----------



## Ocelot

I just bought a Nooitgedagt horned smoother on ebay, but it's still in the mail. Cheaper and not as nice as Ulmia. I hear good things about that type of plane and wanted to try one myself.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> I just bought a Nooitgedagt horned smoother on ebay, but it s still in the mail. Cheaper and not as nice as Ulmia. I hear good things about that type of plane and wanted to try one myself.
> 
> - Ocelot


One of the old ones before Irwin bought them out or one of the new ones?


----------



## Ocelot

Looks brand new. Instead of J. N under a crown, it says Nooitgedagt.


----------



## bandit571

Miter adjuster…from the saw..









To the vise..









Plane off what doesn't fit…until..









Had 4 corners to do..and glue up…









Hey…my slips are showing….


----------



## MikeB_UK

Looking brand new could go either way.
Got a goldenberg not long back that was technically brand new (Unused stock that had sat in a storeroom for 40-50 years)

Let us know how it works.


----------



## rad457

Hey Mos, ya need a set of these beast








Actually still use this one, first I ever owned. Think I got it from L.V. many years ago?


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Pictures, for today..









Work required….to flatten this lid….and, after the corners were sawn, do a bit of round over work…tools?









No. 9 to flatten the lid….Spokeshave had other duties..









Block plane to plane the end grain of the lid….next..









Spokeshave and the Block plane to round the edges….and, remove any burn marks on the curves..









Getting there….Round-over bits?


----------



## BlasterStumps

I only have one horned wooden plane. It is my toothed plane. My eyesight isn't good enough today to be able to tell you who made it. Here's a couple pictures of it.


----------



## HokieKen

This MF 17 block just arrived. Might need a bit more than a sharpen and go…


----------



## bandit571

Alrighty, then…..a No.5c jack plane….with a fence…with an adjustable mouth….and an electric cord?









Was only $4.45…...









Seems to be about the same size as a Stanley No. 5c…....









Hmmm…


----------



## r33tc0w

Just inherited this from my wife's aunt. Belonged to my grandfather in law. It feels so perfectly balanced despite it's weight and the engine turn on the side is something I've never come across. It's equivalent to a #7 in size but it's so darn pretty I dunno if I ever want to use it lol


----------



## sansoo22

I wish these images could zoom. I really like the Craftsman. The "BB" would indicate its made by Miller Falls. In that condition there is a good chance I wouldn't use it either.


----------



## r33tc0w

Try this;
https://photos.app.goo.gl/f29qpmcCzFkWzdJQ8


----------



## sansoo22

> Try this;
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/hzuWzZuZhJ2rM7PU9
> 
> - r33tc0w


Thank you! That really is a beautiful piece of history. Now I have a new type of plane to hunt for. Man you guys like spending my money.


----------



## DevinT

Oooooo. That is gorgeous. Yeah, I wouldn't use it. I'd get a plane sock for it to protect it from moisture. And I would only handle it with gloves.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh my, with decal. Very nice, love those bb craftsman planes.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Oh my, with decal. Very nice, love those bb craftsman planes.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Unless it's a 6. ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nooooooo-o-o-o!!!!!

Quite a true statement, Kent!


----------



## r33tc0w

Here's a couple more


----------



## HokieKen

*They're Millers Falls planes made for Craftsman. Not prime bench planes, but quite serviceable.*

Not prime? Quite serviceable? You cut me to my core Smitty :-(

JK. Millers Falls did "gimp" the planes they made that bore Craftsman and Dunlap badges. Single piece lever caps vs. the jointed 3-point design that is so recognizable. They also used stained "hardwood" instead of Cocobolo and they didn't put the screw and tab in that was used for frog adjustment. So they aren't as flashy and maybe take a minute more to fettle initially but after that, just as functional as a *prime* bench plane ;-)

One of the things I like about MF planes is the solid tool steel blades that are thru-hardened along the full length. I'm not sure if this carried over to the secondary lines or not?

I am very intrigued by your CBB reetcow. Millers Falls always stamped the part number on the left side of their planes including the house-branded ones they made for Sears. And with the exception of later planes made for Sears in the 70's and 80's that were sorta corrugated on the cheeks, there are no examples that I've ever seen of MF planes with anything but cast or milled cheeks. So, my instinct is that it was modfied by someone somewhere along the line. It appears that the cheeks were milled down enough to remove the model # stamp and then the engine finish was applied.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Not prime? Quite serviceable? You cut me to my core Smitty :-(
> 
> - HokieKen


That was a favorable review, I thought. What more that quite serviceable could anyone ask for from a rebranded tool? ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…See what the shop has…









Stamp on the side….









Says it is a 3C….but it has a smooth sole?









Brass? Or, just gold paint? 









And the decal on the tote…..otherwise, this is a Millers Falls No. 8…..just made for Sears….Type 2 ( post war version)


----------



## sansoo22

This isn't a plane but plane related and Miller Falls I figured why not post it.



















I don't think its ever been used. Random eBay suggestion that caught my eye so I bought it.


----------



## HokieKen

You sunuvabich. I've been trying for one of those for 2+ years.

To be fair though, the only reason I don't have one is because I refuse to pay more than $40 shipped. And I have a feeling you paid $54.99 + shipping for that one ;-) I also want one with the brass roller because steel has a bad habit of galling the aluminum table on my Worksharp…

You're the first person I know that actually has one though so I'd really like a good review when you take it for a spin a few times. It looks like a really excellent design to me.


----------



## RWE

Why do the rollers appear uneven. It it their way of allowing some camber? I suppose you would make a setup board with a stop for each angle you want to use. However, Kenny, it has no red!!

Looks solid. Congratulations Sansoo.


----------



## sansoo22

> You sunuvabich. I ve been trying for one of those for 2+ years.
> 
> To be fair though, the only reason I don t have one is because I refuse to pay more than $40 shipped. And I have a feeling you paid $54.99 + shipping for that one ;-) I also want one with the brass roller because steel has a bad habit of galling the aluminum table on my Worksharp…
> 
> You re the first person I know that actually has one though so I d really like a good review when you take it for a spin a few times. It looks like a really excellent design to me.
> 
> - HokieKen


I did pay $54.99 but had a coupon from that seller that pretty much negated shipping. IIRC when I clicked the coupon link in my email this was one of the items eBay randomly displayed from the seller. I didn't even know ebay sellers could send out coupons but have received a few in the last couple weeks.

RWE - Only reason I can think the roller is setup like that is to put a slight camber on an iron. There appears to be just enough clearance to the left and right to achieve that. I might give that a shot with one of the 14 or so jack planes I have lying around right now.


----------



## HokieKen

The roller is stepped like that so you can camber your irons. I like the design because, like my Veritas Mk1 jig, I can do skewed blades in it. And that MF design goes a step further in letting you tweek the angle with the fine adjustment. My biggest question is whether or not there's too much slop in that bent steel frame so that the blade bed can rack a bit and be out of parallel with the roller. And the downside as I see it, is that you couldn't use a jig to set angles precisely if you use the fine adjustment screw.

If you don't like it and want to issue me a "coupon" just let me know ;-)

And I think I posted this question in this very thread sometime in the past but, *Why hasn't anyone copied this design for a honing guide?* The patent is obviously defunct and it seems like such an effective design to me.


----------



## adot45

Stanley no. 40 scrub plane dilemma - On one hand, it has the Stanley decal that I have no reason to suspect it's not original.









On the other hand I just can't stand to see the wood on this plane in such unsightly condition.

















It's held me back from sprucing this plane up, but now it's decision time. ?


----------



## HokieKen

What do you plan to do to the wood adot? Just clean it up or sand it back and refinish? If you just want to clean up the finish that's there, you could probably masknit off and carefully scrub around it with oxalic acid. If you want to sand it back to bare wood and start over though, just bite the bullet ;-)

Another option would be to make a new knob and tote and store those away in case you want to sell it down the road.


----------



## sansoo22

> Another option would be to make a new knob and tote and store those away in case you want to sell it down the road.
> 
> - HokieKen


I would go the replacement route myself. Even if you purchases #40 handles off eBay the set you have will sell for more than those. You could actually come out ahead on the deal. That was my original plan with a type 14 #3 until I found a type 11 to make it my user instead.


----------



## adot45

A couple of good ideas there, never thought of making new wood pieces and saving the originals….I've flip flopped about this for quite a while, just don't want to look back on this as a bungle. (I'm going to keep the plane so resale value isn't a consideration) I've never used oxalic acid on anything before maybe I'll investigate doing that…..thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## BlasterStumps

There are a lot of 40s out there that look just like that. Stanley went thru a phase I guess. One of my 40s had that same coloured wood.


----------



## adot45

D


> Another option would be to make a new knob and tote and store those away in case you want to sell it down the road.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> I would go the replacement route myself. Even if you purchases #40 handles off eBay the set you have will sell for more than those. You could actually come out ahead on the deal. That was my original plan with a type 14 #3 until I found a type 11 to make it my user instead.
> 
> - sansoo22


Didn't see your post until i was responding to Ken's but now I've been thinking of what you both suggested and think I'd like to make a new set of wood pieces. Need to do something besides blasting and painting for a change of pace anyway.

Blaster - The 40's are plentiful that's for sure, it's the 40 1/2's that are a little more scarce. I think the wood on both of them is Beech though. There is a "high knob" version on the 40's too, not sure if there is one on the 40.5's. Here's both styles:


----------



## DevinT

You can always buy yourself out of the situation (complete with sticker)


----------



## theoldfart

Three scrubs, three different knobs.


----------



## Airframer

I have discovered this week while cleaning up so e old stanley rulers that the combination of unconcentrated simple green and a grey (ultra fine) 3m sanding pad (looks like the green scrubby but is grey). Does amazing work removing years of stains and grime from old wood that has a finish on it. Just wrap a corner around your finger dip it in the simple green and scrub. It removes dirt but doesn't touch the finish. I would still be careful around the label but a but of time cleaning may just be what that needs and nothing more.


----------



## Airframer

*duplicate post*


----------



## adot45

Another good suggestion, thanks Airframer. Worth a try although I'm leaning toward making some new wood pieces.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Pictures….had to level the top and bottom edges of a box…









Bottom….slips needed to be flush with the bottom edges of the sides…









Top-side….couple corners were a tad too high….same plane to level the top edge…

Type 4, Millers Falls No. 9…...


----------



## drsurfrat

adot, I made my own, not too difficult. I would just save the labeled one like Kenny said.

These are out of mahogany, but a really dense species. I liked the older style, so copied that knob and long horn. And that blade is my successful heat treatment of A2 steel. woohoo


----------



## adot45

Real nice job with the new knob and tote, the wood is very attractive. Is that a wax finish? I'm going to have to make the same knob style that's on there now so I can use the same knob hardware. I have lots of choices for lumber but have my eye on using some Cumaru , real hard and dense for one choice, spalted maple or beech for another. Looking forward to doing this.

That blade sure looks stout enough, nice.


----------



## drsurfrat

the finish is just Danish oil. I like to sand to 320 grit so it gets velvety. The knob I can pop out in no time, the tote takes me a while. coping saw - carving knives - rasps - sandpaper, I get very sore since there's no way to put it in a vice and get at all the curves.


----------



## Bertha

Not a plane, but look what I found.
A set of Disston things. Curvy things. I don't know what the hell these things are.


----------



## DevinT

Carving gouges?


----------



## bandit571

Used to clean out Babbitt bearings…..before new lead was poured back in…


----------



## theoldfart

Bearing scrapers Al.

Damn, Bandit got there first!


----------



## Bertha

Thank you, fine gentlemen. That's what I thought they were, but now that Bandit describes the Babbitts, it makes a lot more sense. Anyhow, I have a big boxed set of Disston bearing scrapers. I don't sell tools, as a rule, but if y'all know someone who's just dying to have these, let me know. I don't sell tools, as a rule, but I sure accumulate tools, which is cule.


----------



## Bertha

Damn, it's nice to come here, see old pals, and get some answers. I really appreciate everyone here. I need to start posting some planes, b/c I got a few. My niece's artwork. She gets it.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I think there are three 40's in the workshop. This one is the only one I made a knob and tote for. Then I found it's bigger brother that I sharpened to a 6" radius I believe. They both work equally well.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Sorry 'bout that. was trying to upload some pictures on that last post but no way could I get it to work. Weird!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Trying it again. Got into some weird stuff trying this before. Don't know what happened.




























Edit: Nope still can't upload my pics. Huh!

test:








Nope still hosed. Been uploading the same way for several years with no problem. Have no idea what is up.


----------



## Airframer

I see your pics in both posts


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I see your pics in both posts
> 
> - Airframer


Here, too, Blaster


----------



## BlasterStumps

oh good, well I still can't see them so I think I will do a reboot to see if it is just a glitch.


----------



## HokieKen

Interesting, didn't know Disston made bearing scrapers. Fortunately, not even my 1936 South Bend lathe or my 1941 Atlas jointer have babbits so I don't guess I'll make an offer ;-)

Beautiful work on that scrub Boston Mike. With a fancy new blade and fancy furniture, you really need to paint that thing though ;-)

I like the wooden lever cap Colorado Mike! Can't say the same for the hex flange nut on the tote… But, it's a scrub, I guess you do what you gotta do ;-) I would offer to make you a proper barrel nut for it but I STILL haven't acquired myself a 12-20 tap :-(


----------



## BlasterStumps

The larger plane was produced with that style of bolt and nut to hold the tote. I just reused them. I can't think of the brand right now. Maybe Bandit will recognize it.

There is one thing about the Stanley scrub 40 that I am not too fond of, it stinks when handled. Literally, the metal stinks. It's not just this one plane, all of the 40s I have stink with same strong iron metal smell. If ever there was a reason to paint a plane, covering that iron up so it doesn't smell so bad is a good one. I might put that painting on my list of to-do s.

Got notified that my all steel box was shipped.  hope that seller feller is okay.

Weird about those pictures not showing last night. Got up this morning, turned on the 'puter and there they are. Huh? No clue.


----------



## adot45

Those are the way they came, I've got a few of em and I don't know why…..


----------



## RWE

All this talk about 40's is making me ill. I have seen one and it was selling for $200 or so at an Antique shop, and that was over 4 or 6 years ago. Must be common as dirt in the Northeast?

Anybody have one they want to sell or barter on, PM me. As long as the iron works, I can refurb.


----------



## Bertha

What started the 40 push? I saw Peter Follansbee using one on ScrewTube and really had the motivation to pull mine out. His was wood-bodied and was taking some massive shavings. I can't see paying $200 for a 40. I've seen a few in WV and OH, but they're not common in antique stores by any stretch.

Are you looking for Stanley only?


----------



## bandit571

Since I have had to re-shape a lid….these now have work to do..









Re-shaped…









A little smaller, with a finger lift….

Right now? Nasty Thunderstorm rolling through….possible Dungeon Creek will be going across the shop floor…may put a bit of a crimp in shoptime….maybe..


----------



## corelz125

I think that style of bolt was goodall


----------



## RWE

Nice box Bandit. Post a picture after you put some finish on it.


----------



## drsurfrat

RWE - I have a couple, including the one just posted. I have 2 No40's, and a new modified No5 that I like almost as much as the official scrubs. Are you looking for the Stanley original, or a user (body with new parts)?

If you want to start from scratch, I have a design I would like to try with some 3/16" thick 1+1/2" square stock. I bought enough for three.


----------



## DavePolaschek

RWE, I have a LN 40½, because it's pretty, but I mostly use a Stanley Global #3 I converted to a scrub plane. Works great, though I'm only using about 3/4" of the blade most of the time due to the heavy camber.

If you're looking for a cheap global #3, the guy selling them on ebay (from Canada) still has five in stock for $35 (US) each. It took me about an hour to do the conversion.

Or you could buy a brand new LN 40½ for under $200, though you'll have to wait for them to come back into stock.


----------



## RWE

Mike: Just sent a PM.


----------



## RWE

Dave: I have several #3's but none that I want to sacrifice, all kind of vintage and interesting. I am a purist at heart and would like to use a real vintage 40, but the reality is that your suggestion on the Global makes sense. I have an Angel on one shoulder saying "buy vintage" and a devil on one shoulder saying "be practical and modify a #3". That makes you the Devils Advocate I guess.

I have never considered modifying a 3, but it makes sense. I have done a 4 with a serious camber and a 5.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Wow, my pictures are gone again. Bandit's pictures are gone. What the? Might have to get my son to help me with this one.


----------



## bandit571

RWE: Harbor Freight #33 Windsor…..$15…..re-grind the iron to a 3" radius…..perfect #3 sized scrub plane.


----------



## Ocelot

The other day off the bay I bought a …
(I don't know why, but I did, OK)
Nooitgedagt fillester plane. I wasn't paying very good attention. It is a strange beast, seemly set up to make very wide shallow rabbets (rebates, for some of you). It's also missing the nicker.

The minimum width of the rabbet is 1 inch and the long arms take the nicker edge all the way out to 6 inches (or a bit more) from the fence.

Meanwhile the depth stop (which seems designed to adjust with a mallet) only allows a depth of about 1/4".

Does anybody know what planes like this were intended to do?


----------



## theoldfart

Ocelot, I really like your tag line.


----------



## drsurfrat

Here is the idea for a tough scrub plane. I have enough metal to make three, but do not have a bandsaw for metal, I haven't the enthusiasm to start with a hacksaw. The idea is to use the square top parts to be an integral frog and levercap crossbar. I have one perfect sized piece of A2 for the blade, and was going to shape tote and knob from cherry, and epoxy/pin them in like an infill plane.


----------



## RWE

-I intended to be a woodworker, but turned into a tool and lumber collector.

*I think I see the problem with the pictures. Site seems to have reverted to a smaller picture size threshold. I get a message "You can only upload files up to 5MB"*

I am full of dumb questions. It is my gift. Is there a "wood" forum where folks talk about various wood and the working properties. I was not aware of the Restoration thread until recently. I know about the chisels, saws, and of course planes.

Like Ocelot, I collect a lot of wood and just came up with some large Redbud slabs. I think it will work well, but maybe someone has done projects with it before.









Slabs are 2.5 to 3 feet tall, various widths and 2 inches thick. I can Google info about the working properties but just did not know if there was a forum on just "wood".


----------



## RWE

> Here is the idea for a tough scrub plane. I have enough metal to make three, but do not have a bandsaw for metal, I haven t the enthusiasm to start with a hacksaw. The idea is to use the square top parts to be an integral frog and levercap crossbar. I have one perfect sized piece of A2 for the blade, and was going to shape tote and knob from cherry, and epoxy/pin them in like an infill plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - drsurfrat


Kenny, calling Kenny.


----------



## BlasterStumps

"You can only upload files up to 5MB". I don't think that is it. Not sure but I think 5mb picture would be huge.

All the pictures are back now. ??


----------



## RWE

It may be my new phone/camera, but 5 shots of the slabs and only one was below 5 MB. I have not had a problem in the past and have had the new phone for about a month. I used to struggle to get pictures that I could upload, would have to crop them, then it ceased to be a problem. I think someone tweaked the site and reverted to a more stringent size requirement.


----------



## DevinT

Saw some pretty nice looking hand planes on the bay. Just go on the bay and search for "Gorgeousness plane"

They come from China, but just look at them. They don't seem to come in any sizes larger than 6 1/2", but the 6 1/2" ones are really nice looking.

*EDIT*:

At last check, there were 37 hand planes that match the description, and all of them ship from China and are reasonably priced while exhibiting beautiful rosewood infill.

In my opinion, these hand planes are probably made by a Hongmu maker in China. Hongmu is highly prized rosewood furniture in China.

*FURTHER EDIT*:

They don't appear to have adjusters, and the blades look exceptionally simple. I wouldn't put them above a Veritas or LN or Holtey or Lazarus or anything else with an adjuster. I just think they look really nice.


----------



## Johnny7

> Does anybody know what planes like this were intended to do?
> 
> - Ocelot


If I understand the pics/text correctly, I'm thinking panel raiser.


----------



## Ocelot

Thank you TOF,

It is, unfortunately, the sad truth.

-Paul


> Ocelot, I really like your tag line.
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## Ocelot

J7,

Hmmm. Maybe… something like that.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> The other day off the bay I bought a …
> (I don t know why, but I did, OK)
> Nooitgedagt fillester plane. I wasn t paying very good attention. It is a strange beast, seemly set up to make very wide shallow rabbets (rebates, for some of you). It s also missing the nicker.
> 
> The minimum width of the rabbet is 1 inch and the long arms take the nicker edge all the way out to 6 inches (or a bit more) from the fence.
> 
> Meanwhile the depth stop (which seems designed to adjust with a mallet) only allows a depth of about 1/4".
> 
> Does anybody know what planes like this were intended to do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Ocelot


Weird one that, fence is on the wrong side for a sash fillister.
Which makes it a moving fillister with a stupidly long fence (no point going further than the end of the blade), which seems unlikely.
Not seen one before, the Dutch always were a bit strange though.

Depth stop you just use something to set a reference depth then tighten the locking screw, no hammer required.


----------



## HokieKen

> Here is the idea for a tough scrub plane. I have enough metal to make three, but do not have a bandsaw for metal, I haven t the enthusiasm to start with a hacksaw. The idea is to use the square top parts to be an integral frog and levercap crossbar. I have one perfect sized piece of A2 for the blade, and was going to shape tote and knob from cherry, and epoxy/pin them in like an infill plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - drsurfrat
> 
> Kenny, calling Kenny.
> 
> - RWE


Yep. Bring it on. I can knock those out quick and easy. I need a win in the shop anyway ;-)


----------



## Ocelot

The reason I guessed a mallet is that the ears of the depth stop stick way up above the plane body. I was guessing they were there to facilitate tapping them with a mallet, otherwise why have 'em?



> [...]
> 
> Depth stop you just use something to set a reference depth then tighten the locking screw, no hammer required.
> 
> - MikeB_UK


----------



## theoldfart

I agree with Johnny, looks to be a panel raiser plane. Someday I'd like to behave badly and buy a nice infill panel raiser.
Someday!


----------



## MikeB_UK

When it was friction fit, hammer to set the depth. Change the way it works and people are used to the old method so keep it as an option 

Main problem with this type of plane, hitting with a hammer changes the depth of both irons and the stop, the locking screw on the depth stop means you can set the depth and stop it moving as you adjust the Iron.


----------



## MikeB_UK

I, sort of, agree with panel raiser - for stupidly wide bevels, that fence adjusts out too far and the edge of the mouth stops the cut.

you could start at the edge and then cut in though.


----------



## DevinT

> Here is the idea for a tough scrub plane. I have enough metal to make three, but do not have a bandsaw for metal, I haven t the enthusiasm to start with a hacksaw. The idea is to use the square top parts to be an integral frog and levercap crossbar. I have one perfect sized piece of A2 for the blade, and was going to shape tote and knob from cherry, and epoxy/pin them in like an infill plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - drsurfrat


Woah, hold on a minute!

You're telling me (visually through this picture) that you can conceptually make a plane out of piece of large square tubing instead of dovetailing 2 sides to a sole and peening the pieces together and sanding them flat?

HOLY MOLY, BATMAN! That's GENIUS!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Just a T11 whacking away at a window frame…


----------



## MikeB_UK

Ah, square tubing makes more sense, thought it was a solid bar they we going to mill the centre out of - my metalworking skills are woefull in my defence


----------



## DevinT

Kinda makes you wonder why bedrocks have a flat top instead of a round one ;D


----------



## MikeB_UK

Kitchens going well smitty, I think I managed to make a planter and paint the back yard walls in the time you took to gut and rebuild that.


----------



## Ocelot

That's what I was thinking. As you come in (by moving the fence out), the edge of the bottom of the plane will bottom out on the already-cut giant rabbet at the same level that the depth stop will settle on the uncut wood. So maybe you could lower the depth stop and cause it to make a bevel after the first cut - ... OK. I'm confused.



> I, sort of, agree with panel raiser - for stupidly wide bevels, that fence adjusts out too far and the edge of the mouth stops the cut.
> 
> you could start at the edge and then cut in though.
> 
> - MikeB_UK


----------



## corelz125

Drsurfrat you could also cut it out with a grinder and cutting disc. If your not used to using a grinder it might take a little cleaning up after the initial cut.


----------



## donwilwol

> Drsurfrat you could also cut it out with a grinder and cutting disc. If your not used to using a grinder it might take a little cleaning up after the initial cut.
> 
> - corelz125


You can set a block of hardwood for the grinding wheel to ride along. Gives a nice straight cut even for cavemen like me.


----------



## donwilwol

> Drsurfrat you could also cut it out with a grinder and cutting disc. If your not used to using a grinder it might take a little cleaning up after the initial cut.
> 
> - corelz125


You can set a block of hardwood for the grinding wheel to ride along. Gives a nice straight cut even for cavemen like me.


----------



## Johnny7

> I agree with Johnny, looks to be a panel raiser plane. Someday I'd like to behave badly and buy a nice infill panel raiser.
> Someday!
> 
> - theoldfart


Hi TOF

I believe the course of action you describe would actually qualify you as a hell-raiser.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thx Mike. It's taken several weeks, internet makes it look faster (and easier) than reality. That said, I coulda used an A5 for that work. Holdi g a cast iron jack in front of you, full extension, gets heavy real quick.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Thx Mike. It's taken several weeks, internet makes it look faster (and easier) than reality. That said, I coulda used an A5 for that work. Holdi g a cast iron jack in front of you, full extension, gets heavy real quick.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Took several weeks to make the planter & paint the wall's, I may have got sidetracked a bit, made a plane, pubs re-opened after lockdown 

Forget the iron, wood bodied planes, big beefy coffin plane is what you want - light and no handle to get in the way for planing on the vertical.


----------



## MikeB_UK

And thinking about it, what do you call an A5?

Massive heavy beastie over here


----------



## Ocelot

Alluminum No 5 = A5.

2 5/8 lb vs 4 3/4 for the iron No 5.


----------



## bandit571

No. 80 in use…









Getting a lid flattened….and smooth….


----------



## MikeB_UK

Ah, makes more sense

Norris A5 is a infill smothing plane, cast iron number 5 is lightweight in comparison.

Don't think Mads will mind me using his for an example
https://www.lumberjocks.com/mafe/blog/30722


----------



## CO_Goose

> Kinda makes you wonder why bedrocks have a flat top instead of a round one ;D
> 
> - DevinT


Marketing.

Older bedrocks had rounded tops. Square tops make them stand out in the crowd


----------



## ac0rn

> Just a T11 whacking away at a window frame…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Our project won't be at that stage for at least another 8 months. complete remodel of a home with good bones. We call it "The playhouse"


----------



## Mosquito

Since my #3 is currently out of commission, I took the #2 out to bevel the leading edges of some boards I was running through the planer… Every time I use that thing, I convince myself not to sell it lol


----------



## corelz125

As your kid gets older Mos and you are all over the place doing things. You will be power feeding boards into that planer while your at soccer practice.


----------



## HokieKen

I got my MF #37 knuckle cap block plane and it's missing the throat adjuster. I tried one off my Stanley 9-1/2 and it's a perfect fit. If anyone has a throat adjuster from a Stanley or Millers Falls they want to sell, or a beater plane that has one, I'm in the market!


----------



## sansoo22

> I got my MF #37 knuckle cap block plane and it's missing the throat adjuster. I tried one off my Stanley 9-1/2 and it's a perfect fit. If anyone has a throat adjuster from a Stanley or Millers Falls they want to sell, or a beater plane that has one, I'm in the market!
> 
> - HokieKen


I have a spare later style Stanley with the straight tip on it but its already cleaned and polished. You can have it if you want it.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Sansoo! I'm not familiar with that type but if it will fit a vintage one, it should work. If you've polished it though, I'm probably gonna have to double my efforts on the rest of the plane so it won't look out of place ;-)


----------



## sansoo22

> Thanks Sansoo! I'm not familiar with that type but if it will fit a vintage one, it should work. If you've polished it though, I'm probably gonna have to double my efforts on the rest of the plane so it won't look out of place ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


It looks like this…same exact size as a vintage Stanley on all the parts that matter. Tried it on an 18 and 9-1/2


----------



## adot45

Ken and Sansoo - I got the new wood pieces made, not saying I'm particularly proud of them but it solved my issue. The knob looks more like a hot air balloon than a Stanley tote but there it is at least until the next blank glue up. I'd like to have some profile templates but I'm not going to waste one to cut it in two. 

















The tote came out better than I figured it would using no rasps or carving type stuff, but a router and small mouse sander did the job.


----------



## sansoo22

Very nice work. I think that tote is fantastic. I'm not a turner so I have no complaints with the knob. In fact if you were trying to clone a V&B pattern knob you nailed it. I imagine the Stanley "sphere on a stick" style knob is a bit harder to turn…but again I have no frame of reference for that.


----------



## Ocelot

Nice wood on that plane, Adot.


----------



## adot45

Thank you guys!


----------



## controlfreak

> I got my MF #37 knuckle cap block plane and it's missing the throat adjuster. I tried one off my Stanley 9-1/2 and it's a perfect fit. If anyone has a throat adjuster from a Stanley or Millers Falls they want to sell, or a beater plane that has one, I'm in the market!
> 
> - HokieKen


You have a Stanley?


----------



## Notw

Working on restoring a No 7 and the japanning is about 95% in tact other than a chip at the front. The issue is the previous owner sprayed a dot of spray paint on it. Anyone know any magic to get spray paint off of japanning without hurting the japanning?


----------



## Johnny7

> Working on restoring a No 7 and the japanning is about 95% in tact other than a chip at the front. The issue is the previous owner sprayed a dot of spray paint on it. Anyone know any magic to get spray paint off of japanning without hurting the japanning?
> 
> - Notw


I have a technique which works perfectly for paint splatters, but apparently you're talking spray paint.

in that case … I use denatured alcohol on a rag to rub paint off of japanning. It may take several applications and some elbow grease, but it works.
In many years of doing it this way, it has never harmed, fogged, or otherwise removed the japanning.


----------



## drsurfrat

+1 Johnny. Japanning seems impervious to solvents. Maybe even CAREFULLY try acetone. That will surely take off the paint, and I THINK leave the japanning. Note the capitals…


----------



## corelz125

That knob looks good from here.


----------



## drsurfrat

I just tried acetone on my japanning, no damage, made it shiny.


----------



## HokieKen

Gracias Sansoo, I'll take it 

CF - I have a few Stanleys. A few block planes, 45, 46, 113 compass plane, 71 router, 12 scraper and probably one or two I'm not recalling. There were some things Millers Falls never made, and others they didn't make enough of ;-)

Scrub furniture looks real good adot


----------



## adot45

Thank you guys, appreciate it. Next challenge will be to make the next set better.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't have any japanned planes left in my possession but I'm pretty sure I discovered that goo-gone will remove paint but not harm japanning. Won't swear to it though and YMMV anyway so do a test spot. It also may not remove the paint depending on what kind of paint it is.


----------



## Johnny7

> It also may not remove the paint depending on what kind of paint it is.
> 
> - HokieKen


I have found it virtually worthless for removing paint from old tools. I think it only really works on latex paint, and, as you might imagine, most of the older tools have oil paint drips and spatters.


----------



## Lazyman

Your mileage may vary but I found that Citrus Strip (The new formulation anyway) barely had any affect on jappanning on this plane. This is after applying CS. I did see a little bit of it sort come off in flakes but it was mostly in the areas where it was already starting to flake off anyway, like around the heel, which is why I was trying to strip it off in the first place. The bottom picture is after both CS and trying to remove it with a small wire wheel. I even used the wood sticks to try to loosen it while the CS was still wet. I finally had to resort to sandblasting to remove it.










After


----------



## r33tc0w

> *They're Millers Falls planes made for Craftsman. Not prime bench planes, but quite serviceable.*
> 
> Not prime? Quite serviceable? You cut me to my core Smitty :-(
> 
> JK. Millers Falls did "gimp" the planes they made that bore Craftsman and Dunlap badges. Single piece lever caps vs. the jointed 3-point design that is so recognizable. They also used stained "hardwood" instead of Cocobolo and they didn t put the screw and tab in that was used for frog adjustment. So they aren t as flashy and maybe take a minute more to fettle initially but after that, just as functional as a *prime* bench plane ;-)
> 
> One of the things I like about MF planes is the solid tool steel blades that are thru-hardened along the full length. I m not sure if this carried over to the secondary lines or not?
> 
> I am very intrigued by your CBB reetcow. Millers Falls always stamped the part number on the left side of their planes including the house-branded ones they made for Sears. And with the exception of later planes made for Sears in the 70 s and 80 s that were sorta corrugated on the cheeks, there are no examples that I ve ever seen of MF planes with anything but cast or milled cheeks. So, my instinct is that it was modfied by someone somewhere along the line. It appears that the cheeks were milled down enough to remove the model # stamp and then the engine finish was applied.
> 
> - HokieKen


Just noticed this, duh


----------



## drsurfrat

> Have an Ohio Tool Co. No. 0-7 that could use an iron…..instead of the Stanley it has…
> - bandit571


Bandit, If you want one that is 2+3/8" wide I have the one with the hexagonal hole. It has a really thick cutting edge. I tried it in my stanley, and it fills the entire throat. Make sure you have the room for it.

Here it is next to a 'regular' iron:









It has an oxidation shadow on the underside that has to be an iron plane, not wooden, so they must have made room at some point.

Heres the logo:
OHIO TOOL CO.
THISTLE BRAND
AUBURN, N.Y. U.S.A.










I know you are used to getting 10-cent deals, but this is gonna cost you four thousand dollars. Or just shipping.


----------



## corelz125

That jappaning isn't bad Nathan I think I would leave that one as is


----------



## cc3d

You'll laugh, but I use this more than any plane in my shop


----------



## bandit571

The OEM iron had a globe logo….iron snapped….right at the hex hole…


----------



## Lazyman

> That jappaning isn t bad Nathan I think I would leave that one as is
> 
> - corelz125


I went back and forth but it was a little rusty at the heel. It actually looked a lot better after the stripper but it was going to be a gift for someone and I wanted it to look new-ish so went for a full strip and paint.










Tote and nob on this cheap Fulton was pretty boring so I embellished it with some Transtint dye.


----------



## adot45

That looks great, nice job.


----------



## DevinT

Wunderbar!


----------



## corelz125

Nathan giving Sansoo a run for his money. I guess it depends I don't mind the worn look but I can see as a gift it's more impressive all shined up. Nice looking wood on it.


----------



## Notw

Thank you to Mike and everyone else who said Acetone, it worked perfectly. Yay science!


----------



## Notw

> You ll laugh, but I use this more than any plane in my shop
> 
> - Chris Cook


Ok what number is that Stanley plane Chris? I think I have to have one.


----------



## sansoo22

> Tote and nob on this cheap Fulton was pretty boring so I embellished it with some Transtint dye.
> 
> - Lazyman


That's one of the fun parts about the less than desirable planes. You get to experiment a little with them. I've got a Shelton that was gifted to me I will be playing around a tad with the handles. Right now they look like orange stained beech. Definitely could use a little Transtint dye to make them look a little more presentable.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> You ll laugh, but I use this more than any plane in my shop
> 
> - Chris Cook
> 
> Ok what number is that Stanley plane Chris? I think I have to have one.
> 
> - Notw


I won't laugh at Chris because I have one, too. It's a modern (still available) 12-101 which is a functional replacement for the original 101.


----------



## drsurfrat

NOTW, want this one? Not Stanley, and not exactly the configuration of the 101, but good if you want a palm plane. Complete with custom lever cap 










little enough to send cheap, too.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ love that lever cap!


----------



## adot45

What he said….seems stout enough. ;-)


----------



## TedT2

That little guy has character….


----------



## KentInOttawa

> NOTW, want this one? Not Stanley, and not exactly the configuration of the 101, but good if you want a palm plane. Complete with custom lever cap
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> little enough to send cheap, too.
> 
> - drsurfrat


If NOTW isn't interested, I'll take it. It looks to have a lower angle bed than my 100 knock-off. I also like the lever cap and find that the squirrel tail planes just feel good in my hands if the plane hasn't been super-sized.


----------



## drsurfrat

25 degree bed angle. You could turn it bevel down, and that might tighten up the throat gap, too. Back bevel it if it's too tight.

I had posted the drawings but it seems to have been removed. "Tip: Closing the Mouth on a Fixed-mouth Block Plane"


----------



## sansoo22

Up front is a Type 13 #5 and in the back is a Type 14 #6.









Going back to work making fluffy walnut. Got carried away with the #6…its headed for a new home tomorrow. Might have to touch it up before I ship it.


----------



## DevinT

sansoo, such beautiful images. Those are some really nice shavings and I can absolutely see getting carried away. Thank you so much for sharing. That board looks really nice. Really great job on restoring those planes.


----------



## HokieKen

Awesome work Sansoo, as usual! I really like the lighter wood on the tote one the #5. Is that original or is it a replacement?


----------



## sansoo22

> sansoo, such beautiful images. Those are some really nice shavings and I can absolutely see getting carried away. Thank you so much for sharing. That board looks really nice. Really great job on restoring those planes.
> 
> - DevinT


Thanks Devin. I do love making old rusty tools look and perform as close to new as I can.



> Awesome work Sansoo, as usual! I really like the lighter wood on the tote one the #5. Is that original or is it a replacement?
> 
> - HokieKen


Its an original Stanley just not to this plane. This #5 showed up in a box of planes with a bunch of missing parts. I find myself gravitating towards the blonde or sapwood totes more and more. Might be hard to sell this one but I have 14 jack planes right now…some of these need new homes.


----------



## ac0rn

Sansoo, When you finish a plane it is usually in better condition than new. As to the looks, they probably didn't look that good when new.


----------



## DevinT

I had a moment of weakness and decided to contact the seller of a Stanley Victor hand plane on eBay asking for $1000 for a plane worth at most $100, and this is the response I got:



> you have no idea what is going on and apparently from your feedback no experience as a seller so thanks but no thanks for your advice.


With a response like that, I've no qualms with sharing the idiot's item and what I sent so that we can all have a laugh at this fool.

ASIDE: Alternatively, we could choose to read the response in such a way that suggests that the seller is using the plane for money laundering. Honest mistake on the value of the plane, wink wink, nudge nudge, know what I mean?

Stanley Victor for 1,000

Here is what I wrote the seller:

You do realize that this plane is worth at-most $100, right? This is not a Bailey Victor, but a Stanley Victor. Bailey Victor's have ornate front screw/knob, like this

Here is a real Leonard Bailey Victor

And a Leonard Bailey Victor hand plane will absolutely fetch a price of $1k. However, that is not what you have. You have a Stanley made Victor. Here is a Stanley Victor 1105 in much better condition than yours for only $65, buy-it-now:

https://ebay.us/k74GXX


----------



## DevinT

I mean, I thought I was giving the seller some valuable insight as to why his plane has not sold in over a month. I just took pity and tried to inform them because of the item description:



> I will be listing several plane's I bought from a large collection. I don't know anything about them so ask questions or for more photos
> 
> This one appears pretty good used condition. a little white paint?? on the handle see photo


----------



## HokieKen

Ebay sellers can be surprsingly adolescent when you hurt their feelings. I don't even bother unless it's something I'm really interested in buying. I usually just link their item and ridicule them elsewhere on the interwebs for posterity.


----------



## Lazyman

He either doesn't know the difference or is hoping is that someone with less knowledge pays him 10 times what it's worth. Unless they have misrepresented the item, it's not worth the time to 'splain it to them and if they have, you should just report it to Ebay.


----------



## Mosquito

I also like the "100% complete, all parts there"

I didn't see these two parts, but the description says 100% complete, are those two just not pictured?

"Whatever is in the pictures is what's included, it is complete"

Ok, so not complete, but rather missing those two, got it

-

Seller even had a reprint of the manual with all the parts in the parts diagram to reference lol


----------



## Ocelot

Sometimes something *is* going on. For example, 4 kids splitting estate. Here brother, you get the tools which are woth thousands. I'll take the guitars. Whatever. Lots of games being played in this world.


----------



## Notw

Found this little guy in a box last night, can anyone tell me anything about it? The red cap makes me think it is a Stanley Handyman but i'm not sure.


----------



## HokieKen

Not a Handyman but not vintage either Notw.


----------



## Notw

$22.99 at Ace Hardware….so you're telling me it's a premium plane 

Thanks Ken


----------



## BlasterStumps

I bet it will work for chamfering or rounding in some cases.


----------



## HokieKen

> $22.99 at Ace Hardware….so you re telling me it s a premium plane
> 
> Thanks Ken
> 
> - Notw


You could always list it on Ebay for $1000 ;-)


----------



## DevinT

^_^


----------



## Notw

LOL


----------



## sansoo22

> Ebay sellers can be surprsingly adolescent when you hurt their feelings. I don't even bother unless it's something I'm really interested in buying. I usually just link their item and ridicule them elsewhere on the interwebs for posterity.
> 
> - HokieKen


They can be surprisingly adolescent…full stop.

Ask a question regarding where your item is because they said they would combine shipping and it has the same tracking number as your other item but never showed…get treated like an ass hole. I guess I forgot the first rule of ebay…every seller is doing me a favor by listing items.


----------



## adot45

A little different approach to sprucing up tools. Instead of cleaning and then painting with shiny or semi-gloss black, I stripped these scrapers down to bare metal and painted with a couple of coats of flat black. After that dried I shot a top coat of semi-gloss lacquer on them. 

















How durable this finish is remains to be seen but I like the look so far.


----------



## HokieKen

Very nice adot. I really like the flat black but haven't had much luck painting things that color at home and having it stick. My motorcycle has matte paint so I tried to paint some brackets I made for it flat black and it lasted about a day before chips were noticeable. I haven't tried with a top clear coat though. Though that somewhat defeats the appearance of the flat paint, it's still a unique look. I like it  Keep us apprised on how it holds up with use!


----------



## corelz125

Adot interesting approach. Looks good in the pics


----------



## adot45

Thank You guys.

Would either of you guys happen to know the thread pitch of the tote bolts?


----------



## DevinT

I can tell you that it's smaller than 1/4-20. Though, not by much. I was able to throw a couple of 1/4-20 nuts on the end of my No 8 tote bolt, use a couple crescent wrenches to force them together, then put a socket wrench on the end to tighten the tote bolt up into the boss. Then I just unlocked the nuts by squeezing the wrenches together and away we went.


----------



## adot45

Yep, I noticed that the 1/4-20 was close but no cigar. I think I recall reading that all these Stanley may or may not be standard sizes.

Do you need an original tote bolt?


----------



## HokieKen

Pitch is 20 tpi. The thread is a #12-20. That is true for most vintage planes. I have seen some with 10-24 threads. I think all Stanleys used that thread size and I know all Millers Falls did. If you need a tap or die… good luck. It's not a common thread.


----------



## adot45

> Pitch is 20 tpi. The thread is a #12-20. That is true for most vintage planes. I have seen some with 10-24 threads. I think all Stanleys used that thread size and I know all Millers Falls did. If you need a tap or die… good luck. It s not a common thread.
> 
> - HokieKen


Yes, I wore myself out trying to find a 12-24 size for a Sargent….I just asked because I figured one of you guys could give me a definitive answer. A real oddball. Thanks


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> The thread is a #12-20. If you need a tap or die… good luck. It s not a common thread. - HokieKen


Hogwash.

#12-20 taps are easy to find.
Victor Machinery Exchange has tap, bottom tap, and threading die in stock.
St James Bay Tool in Mesa Arizona usually also stocks some tap/die for Stanley plane repair. St James Bay Tool Co has fleabay store, and he often lists taps in the store. If not listed, just give him a call him and order over phone.

There are some unmentionable folks who make these tap/die as custom order, or resale from Victor above for ridiculous prices too.

YMMV

PS - If you own a older set of large OD adjustable fit threading dies (1.5-2.0" OD) from Greenfield Lil-Giant, FMT or others; you can use the 1/4-20 die for #12-20 thread. Just have to close down the OD slightly (~0.010" I think) to create #12-20 threads. If you have a decent #12-20 thread to use as template for OD, it makes it really easy to clean up bork'd threads.  The modern adjustable smaller 1" OD dies required a lot pressure to close properly for #12-20.


----------



## adot45

Thanks for the information CaptainKlutz.


----------



## drsurfrat

adot, I rebuilt a scrub plane recently, and ended up needing a knob bolt. I took a 1/4-20 stove bolt, chucked it into a hand drill motor, took a small triangle file and chased the threads until it was the right diameter to fit the 12-20 boss. Not pretty, but solid.
Maybe I will try the Victor "#12-20 Special Pitch Round Die" and see what I can bung up.


----------



## HokieKen

Last I checked, Victor didn't have any 12-20 taps or dies and I don't think St James Bay has had them for several years. Victor still listed them but showed them on backorder indefinitely. I'll take another look though, it's been a while.


----------



## HokieKen

Okay, Victor does have them in stock. Put a tap and a die in cart to meet the $25 minimum order. Go to checkout… $18 shipping for a single tap and die? I don't think I need it that bad…


----------



## drsurfrat

Well, Kenny, it is "Special" (or not)


----------



## HokieKen

It is special Mike. But USPS doesn't give a rat's ass!


----------



## adot45

drsurfrat - good idea there, sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do to get something back up and running, I get it. I too am interested in a die for chasing the threads on the tote bolts, they seem to get all wonky after a few decades of use and abuse.


----------



## adot45

> Okay, Victor does have them in stock. Put a tap and a die in cart to meet the $25 minimum order. Go to checkout… $18 shipping for a single tap and die? I don't think I need it that bad…
> 
> - HokieKen


Ouch, me either, like so many instances, shipping is wringing the fun out of shopping.


----------



## drsurfrat

Maybe I will get one, thread 16 feet of #12 rod and cut off chunks as I need them

Or sell it to you guys !!

I wonder how many man-years, sorry, person-years have been blown discussing Stanley oddball threads.


----------



## HokieKen

I can handle to male threads on my lathe so I won't be buying any of your threaded rod Mike ;-). It's a tap that I'd really like to get my hands on. Of course once I do just bite the bullet and buy an overpriced one, I will never, ever have another use for it.


----------



## DanKrager

HKen, I've known good machinists who made their own oddball tap. You do know how to harden and temper one (or more) yes? Can't say I do, but I'm dumb enough to try….









This plane fixer-upper dropped in today.

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah but honestly Dan, by the time I buy some drill rod, turn the tap, mill the flutes and harden and temper it, even if it remained straight and true I'd have invested more than what it would cost to buy one. Even at outrageous, borderline criminal, shipping charges ;-)

Is that a Smithy? That's a sweet puppy!! Doesn't look like it needs miluch attention to be put to work either


----------



## corelz125

Kenny might have to eat that one and order the tap and die they have been out of stock for awhile. St james doesnt seem to make them anymore.


----------



## HokieKen

Just curious how many are interested in a 12-20 tap and/or die? If there's enough interest, I could order for everybody and we could all split the shipping up. Then I should be able to ship anywhere in CONUS for <$5. So assuming their shipping charge is a flat rate for small orders, I'd say 5 people would make it worthwhile to do a group buy. That would put everybody's shipping at less than $10 and nobody would have to worry about meeting the $25 minimum order. Just a thought. I've had a few beers though so it's very possible it's a dumb one…


----------



## adot45

I would like the die.


----------



## bandit571

Spares…with no place to call home..


----------



## DavePolaschek

Hmm. The Stanley Global #3s I bought a bunch of all have 12-32 threads on the rods for the tote and knob. I generally leave one end alone (in the plane body) and turn the munged-up end into a 10-32, which is easy to find. Then I tap something pretty for a nut.


----------



## bandit571

Thought I had lost a plane….









happen to notice it just sitting there….on the bench….a Miller Falls No. 8….thinking it might be a type 2…


----------



## sansoo22

Count me in for a die. Will probably get one either way but saving on shipping would be nice.


----------



## corelz125

I ordered a couple of items with the tap and die. They have some other things that are good to have on hand


----------



## Ocelot

Ken, I'd be interested in a tap and die also. I show $47 and change to order from Victor myself. I suppose if I could get them for $38, I should do it, though I can't say when I would use them.


----------



## ac0rn

Count me in for the 12-20 set. Let me know.


----------



## HokieKen

adot - 1 die
Sansoo - 1 die
Ocelot - 1 tap and 1 die
Jeff - 1 tap and 1 die

Right? Anyone else? I'll wait a day to give folks a chance to see the thread and place an order in the morning. If it's okay with everyone, we'll just split the shipping evenly among everyone then everyone will be responsible for actual shipping from me to you.

And unless you tell me otherwise, I'll assume these will be used to chase existing threads and will order bottoming taps for everyone.


----------



## HokieKen

I checked and shipping stays the same with all of the requested taps and dies thus far. So shipping per person would be $3.60 plus whatever it costs me to mail your stuff to you. A lot less than $18 in any case


----------



## adot45

Sounds good to me. Thanks…..


----------



## drsurfrat

I would like one set as well, Kenny. Thanks for thinking of it.


----------



## HokieKen

I'll add you to the list Mike.


----------



## DevinT

I'd join in, but I'm on a 45-day moratorium on spending (which started June 4). So no purchases from me until July 19, unfortunately.


----------



## Ocelot

Your's should ship free, Ken. It's the least we can do.


----------



## Mosquito

I agree with Ocelot 

Also, I'd potentially be interested, but I'd have to check my older Keen Kutter KK planes to see if they use the same thread, which I wouldn't be able to do until this evening I don't think


----------



## corelz125

Big run on 12-20 tap and dies. Might use up all their stock again.


----------



## controlfreak

If you are a Hokie prime member shipping is free


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, I'll take a set.
I'm with the others on picking up your shipping.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Kenny I'll borrow your set if I ever need it.


----------



## adot45

^ What he said about the shipping. 
You will have plenty of tasks to do that will be time eaters…..you take bitcoin right?


----------



## HokieKen

Alright, here is what I have so far:









Let me know if I missed anyone.



> Big run on 12-20 tap and dies. Might use up all their stock again.
> 
> - corelz125


I thought about that last night after I proposed the group buy. Guess we'll roll the dice and see what we get. IF they should run out of stock though, I'll prioritize in the order that requests were posted. That's the fairest way I see to handle it.



> ...
> Also, I d potentially be interested, but I d have to check my older Keen Kutter KK planes to see if they use the same thread, which I wouldn t be able to do until this evening I don t think
> 
> - Mosquito


I'm going to wait until tomorrow to place the order to give folks a day to get requests in so just let me know when you get a chance to check.

I appreciate the thoughts and I'll take the free shipping  That'll cover the cost of padded envelopes for redistribution ;-)

Everyone okay with sending $ via PayPal friends & family? If not let me know and we'll work out something else.


----------



## Berto

Hey Kenny,
Can you add me to the list?
I would like to acquire the Tap & Die. 
I know I'll be at the bottom of the list…......and if I get them….......great…......if not…....oh well.

I'd prefer *to not use* PayPal if possible.
I'll PM you a message with my thoughts and details.

Thanks,
Berto


----------



## sansoo22

All the Keen Kutter KK tote bolts I have hear are checking out to be 1/4-20. They definitely don't fit a spare Stanley body and 1/4-20 nuts fit like a glove.

I'm fine with PayPal F&F.


----------



## HokieKen

I'll assume that takes Mos' off the list but I'll wait for him to verify. Added Berto to the list.


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, looks good to me. I'm not a high priority so I can be last on the list.


----------



## HokieKen

You're always a high priority in my book Kev ;-)


----------



## BlasterStumps

Kenny, I would like to get a tap and die, if you can still add me to the list. Thanks


----------



## controlfreak

With this much demand Kenny you need to raise the price.


----------



## HokieKen

Will do Mike.


----------



## sansoo22

All right which one of you is to blame for this? A month ago I had a single Type 4 #14 hanging out in the shop…now look? They are breeding faster than my Stanley planes.


----------



## HokieKen

Even with all the gorgeous restorations you've shown Sansoo, that is by far the sexiest plane pic you've ever posted.


----------



## sansoo22

> Even with all the gorgeous restorations you ve shown Sansoo, that is by far the sexiest plane pic you ve ever posted.
> 
> - HokieKen


Surprisingly, to me at least, I've picked up each one these for under $40. A couple of them were right at $40 even including shipping. What I find odd with MF planes is anything over a jack size seems to just sky rocket in price. Must to be to scarcity of the larger sizes I guess.


----------



## bandit571

Have a No. 8 ( and a Craftsman 3C) about 3 No. 9( and a V-Line..) a No. 11, Type 2…..3 No. 14s, and a single No. 15

Nope, wasn't me,,,,was too busy using them…..


----------



## HokieKen

Yes Sansoo, 9s and 14s are pretty affordable. 18s and 8s aren't bad. The tally climbs pretty quick with any other sizes though. I think it's just a matter of how many were produced.


----------



## drsurfrat

I believe it's become apparent that when you appreciate Kenny's efforts, you send him good beer. I intend to.


> With this much demand Kenny you need to raise the price.
> 
> - controlfreak


----------



## HokieKen

I'll never kick a good beer out of bed ;-) And it's way more interesting than boring old cash.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Picked up this little wards master no 3 today for 13.00. Its it great shape. Not sure what it is about it but this thing just feels right in my hand. Ill clean it, sharpen it and put it to use

I have tried to get the picture posted right from my phone, no matter what I do its crooked. I dont know what else to do. Sorry.


----------



## DevinT




----------



## Thedustydutchman

Thanks!


----------



## donwilwol

> Picked up this little wards master no 3 today for 13.00. Its it great shape. Not sure what it is about it but this thing just feels right in my hand. Ill clean it, sharpen it and put it to use
> 
> I have tried to get the picture posted right from my phone, no matter what I do its crooked. I dont know what else to do. Sorry.
> 
> - Thedustydutchman


First, try opening the picture and do something, anything to it and save it, sometimes even just saving it again works.

I don't know what it was about the wards masters, but I'm never had one that didn't work well. They seem to have tighter tolerances that the normal line they come from. I've even had a few of the later models from the handyman line, and they were nothing like the handyman. Nice addition!


----------



## RWE

I wanted to post about a new to me #40 that drsurfrat provided to me in a swap deal. As I have mentioned previously, I get a lot of bandsawn lumber from a friend. Tonight I was milling some wood to clear the bandsaw marks and figure out what character the lumber had. Most of it is still green, so I try to trim off the bark and get the lumber in rough shape for more drying time.

I had some scrap Cherry boards that were already air dried. The two I worked on, had twist and major cupping.

I have used cambered irons in a #4 and a #5 for this process, plus I have a horned wooden Austrian scrub that works well.

Drsurfrat put this 40 together by making a cap iron and as i believe he posted earlier, by heat treating some metal to make the iron for it. He also made the "furniture" for it. Great job. Sansoo will object to the unpainted sides, but I am good with it.

The little 40 is very nimble. The camber on the iron and the mouth opening to match the camber work very well. The boards, although very short, had about a 1/4 inch valley in the centers.

I do not go all the way with handplanes, just preprocess so the lumber will lie flat for power jointing and planing.

This was on a small scale, on larger boards I may have to go back to a cambered Jack, but I am impressed with how well and fast the nimble little 40 knocked down the high spots.



















That got the boards flat enough to power joint and plane. Made quick work of it too.










Thanks to drsurfrat. This is a bit of a paradigm change for me. I mill a lot of lumber. It is free to me and I get all kinds of wood that often is not found in normal circumstances. Tonight I worked on Redbud, Cherry, Walnut and some figured Hickory.

The Redbud is interesting, but will need some drying time. I am thinking of handsaw handles for some of it.


----------



## corelz125

Redbud looks real nice. Sounds like Mike rebuilt most of that #40 from scratch


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Im in kenny


----------



## HokieKen

Tap and die Smitty?


----------



## HokieKen

I have several Redbuds in my yard RWE. I haven't felled any but every time I prune a large branch back, I try to salvage some turning stock. So far, no bueno. It always checks so horribly I can't even get a small bowl out of it. Your's look too big to be anything other than trunk wood though so hopefully it will behave better. It certainly looks worth the effort 

I have that same folding table your boards are laying on. That thing is a workhorse


----------



## RWE

I did some research with Google on Redbud and how it works. Guess where I found some good information.

Lumberjocks, DocT

*The other thing I have noticed is that Redbud has a tendency to split as it dries (even when the endgrain is sealed). I have not had this issue with boards (although my boards are approx. ½" thick), but chunks left for turning are prone to split. I am still working out what numbers would lend a predictability to this tendency. On other species, I have seen numbers for the percentage of shrinkage from green to dry (both tangential and radial); perhaps the predictor is a ratio of these two numbers, as it would define shrinkage stresses. I will investigate this further. For now, let's call this the "shrinkage ratio".*

Essentially, the post from DocT stated that once the wood is cut into boards it quits checking, but raw staves/logs will check badly. I may go buy some Anchorseal for it for insurance, but the preprocessing for drying typically cuts a square end. If I know how I will use it, I will bisect the thicker slabs to expedite drying. Leave the turning stock thick and turn it green. No turning stock in this, maybe a bandsaw box, only two inches thick.

The Redbud was dead and therefore the more interesting swirly grain sections are a little on the punky side. There are some slabs that are good and firm, but more straight grained.

That work table is a Keter brand (made in Israel). I picked it up at an estate sale. I have not used saw horses since I got it about a year ago. Love it. Doing a kitchen remodel and I bring it in the house for a temporary work bench, outside on the deck for miter saw stand for the crown molding work, and when I mill the rough lumber, I use it outside to get the big pieces cut down for milling. I highly recommend it to anyone that needs the utility it provides. On Amazon , but I got mine at a much better price at the estate sale. I keep it under my deck, plastic and aluminum, so no problem with the weather. Collapses down to suitcase size.


----------



## HokieKen

Here's the list I have for tap and die order. I have my cart loaded and ready to go. Just waiting for Mos' to let me know for sure if he's in or out. If you aren't on there and want to be, speak now!


----------



## Mosquito

> I ll assume that takes Mos off the list but I ll wait for him to verify. Added Berto to the list.
> 
> - HokieKen


Well…. What the heck, I'll be in for both anyway, I have a handful of K series planes made by Stanley as well. I've got a whole bunch of random tap and die pairs already, so what's one more? Besides, you'll already be shipping things my way anyway


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Tap and die, yes pls.

No woodworking or kitchen today.


----------



## HokieKen

Got it Mos. In that case I'm going to go ahead and place the order.

Taps are 18.75 and dies are 11.50. Shipping to me winds up being $1.71 each  I'm pretty sure shipping from me to each of you will be $6 and I have to buy some more padded envelopes so if it's okay with everyone I'm gonna round it up to $7 each. If it ends up being significantly less, I'll send you some back.

So everyone that got a Tap and a Die, your total is $38.96. Sansoo and adot who only got a Die, your total is $20.21.

If y'all don't mind sending me money in the next day or two before my wife sees the $350 charge, I'd appreciate it 

Here is a link to my Paypal. Use Friends and Family please or add 3% to cover the fee.

Or you can send via Venmo to @HokieKen if you prefer that.

I prefer PayPal but I know some people don't like it so it's fine if you want to use Venmo instead. (BTW, for anyone who doesn't know, PayPal owns Venmo ;-p)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dupe post…


----------



## HokieKen

Wow, looks like a rough life Smitty


----------



## Mosquito

Done. Since the ATM machine spits out $20's, I rounded up


----------



## Ocelot

I never saw a cabinet shop like that one, Smitty.


----------



## Mosquito

> I never saw a cabinet shop like that one, Smitty.
> 
> - Ocelot


That's because it's a typo, it's not a cabinet shop it's a cabernet shop


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> I never saw a cabinet shop like that one, Smitty.
> 
> - Ocelot


Retirement is a wonderful thing, especially when young enough to enjoy it. ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

^ Oh yea!


----------



## theoldfart

Sent


----------



## controlfreak

I plan on retiring early….at age seventy.


----------



## DevinT

If being retired is just getting tired a second time, I have retired many times


----------



## Notw

I've only got 27 more working years ahead of me….yay :-(


----------



## HokieKen

Which one of y'all is Hope Dean? I got your money but I'm not sure who to mark paid ;-P

Also, everyone who has a tap and/or a die coming to them, PM me your shipping address sometime in the next couple of days please. If you're signed up for the Secret Santa exchange, don't worry about it, I already have your address.


----------



## Berto

Paid $38.96

Thank you sir


----------



## Ocelot

> Which one of y all is Hope Dean? I got your money but I m not sure who to mark paid ;-P
> - HokieKen


Ah, my wife paid you - still has account in her maiden name. I told (I mean, asked) her to send the address and my name. So, Hope is mine.

PM with address sent.

-Paul


----------



## HokieKen

> Sent
> 
> - theoldfart


Was that directed at me re: paypal? If so, you might have sent somebody else an unexpected surprise 'cause it didn't show up in mine…


----------



## HokieKen

And I'm squared away with everyone on the taps and dies. Thanks all for the quick attention  I'll get mailers addressed and ready so I can turn them around and get them redistributed as soon as they get here. I'll keep you all apprised of the order status.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Portrait…..









Left to Right: No. 1455, No. 8, No. 9 (out of 3 on hand) No. 11, No. 14, No. 14, and a No. 15…...
Stanleys?









Mainly the LARGE ones….No. 8, T-7, two No. 5, T19, and a No. 5-1/2, T-17…...and that No. 80..

The No. 8 does carry a "Spare" 









By American Tool & Foundry….


----------



## bandit571

BTW….When you take a step back….









Then look to the right….








And, then the left…









View towards the top of the door, then the view at the bottom..









The 2 small planes?









Are both Stanley No. 3, T-11s


----------



## bandit571

So…when the doors are shut..









There be a few saws at the ready….just in case…


----------



## sansoo22

Bandit - What is in the box in the bottom right corner? Is that for your #45 or router plane?


----------



## DevinT

Impressive!


----------



## sansoo22

Taking a short break from restoring planes while finishes cure. Decided to finally get around to adding the fence extension to my #386.



















Added the last image of the V logo just for Devin as I know how much she likes Type 11s and that logo is pretty synonymous with that type.


----------



## bandit571

> Bandit - What is in the box in the bottom right corner? Is that for your #45 or router plane?
> 
> - sansoo22


Box is to keep all the hardware for projects….mainly the leftovers. Makes a nice shelf for the Stanley Jacks to sit on…..


----------



## DevinT

WOW! I didn't even know the fence had a knob (so many others that I have seen are knobless). That logo looks like it just came off the factory line, I imagine 110 years ago. Wow!


----------



## sansoo22

> WOW! I didn't even know the fence had a knob (so many others that I have seen are knobless). That logo looks like it just came off the factory line, I imagine 110 years ago. Wow!
> 
> - DevinT


I can tell you from experience eBay charges extra for the knob…that bastard wasn't cheap.


----------



## corelz125

Miller's falls fence has a knob also


----------



## Mosquito

Glad I'm (trying) getting out of the T11 game lol That fence is sweet!


----------



## Lazyman

I wish you hadn't shown that fence. I am trying to pretend that I've never seen it.


----------



## HokieKen

My fence is a pre-MF Stearns without the knob. But, there is a beefy enough section of casting where the threads were later added when MF added the knob and their branding to casting. It's not a particularly rare or valuable fence so I've pondered just drilling and tapping it myself and making a knob for it. I figure I should use it at least once first though to make sure I even want a knob on it ;-)

Yours looks fantastic Sansoo. I'm surprised you allowed those cam clamps on your enamel though ;-) Did you line them with something or just roll the dice?


----------



## sansoo22

> Yours looks fantastic Sansoo. I m surprised you allowed those cam clamps on your enamel though ;-) Did you line them with something or just roll the dice?
> 
> - HokieKen


I just rolled the dice. I'm not super happy with the paint job on that #8 so if it needs redone no biggie. But now that you mention it I might put some PFTE tape on the tips of the cams.


----------



## sansoo22

New transitional #28 showed up today. I got this one for the price of shipping. Someone on Reddit was giving away a few planes if you could prove you would give it a loving home.









Only downside is someone decided to widen the mouth with a chisel at some point in its life. The chisel marks aren't fresh so this was done years ago.









And here it is joining its friends. I haven't even been trying to pick up the same type of transitionals. I just seem to always find this style when I do get one. The type with "Bailey" in front of the knob is by far my favorite so I guess if I pick up more I will be looking for that style.


----------



## bandit571

Anyone know anything about this….?









BTW, That white ceramic nozzle fell about…seems the set screw had cracked it…


----------



## adot45

Nozzle for sandblaster


----------



## bandit571

need an address to mail it to….


----------



## corelz125

Sansoo you can put a new sole on it if it doesn't perform well.


----------



## sansoo22

> Sansoo you can put a new sole on it if it doesn t perform well.
> 
> - corelz125


I've done one before and its not terribly hard. The last one just didn't look very appealing. It was an 1/8" veneer of hard maple and I found out a 1/4" chisel is just a tad to big for cutting the edges of the mouth.

If I resole the #28 I'm thinking I will go thicker and maybe use walnut. Probably cut grooves in the body and the new walnut sole so it has more of a box joint look when its completed. But first I need to find a 3/16" or smaller chisel so I can cut the mouth cleanly.


----------



## corelz125

Or get a nice piece of brass plate.


----------



## Mosquito

I've got a wooden jack plane that someone just put a triangle infill in front of the iron. But even that got wide by the time I had it flat on at least most of the bottom. But being a jack, I didn't care that much anyway


----------



## HokieKen

I've never owned a transitional but would a thicker iron close the mouth up without causing any other issues?


----------



## HokieKen

And update on the tap and die order: They were delivered yesterday. I haven't even had a second to open the box yet to be sure everything is present and accounted for but I will try to tonight. I had to come to the office this morning and it's my wife's birthday so we'll see how that shakes out…

I stopped at a store on the way to work to get some small bubble mailers and the smallest they had was 6×9. So it'll probably be tomorrow before I can… go to Walmart… (I just cried a little bit at the thought) and pick some smaller ones up. So probably Tuesday or Wednesday before I actually get these things in the mail.

I don't think anyone was in a huge hurry to get these things in hand BUT if you are, do not be shy to shoot me a PM and I'll definitely get yours mailed out tomorrow morning!


----------



## adot45

Hey, I've made it 75 years without that die…a linear projection based on trend says I can go another week (or more) with no problem. Happy Birthday and many happy returns to your wife.


----------



## theoldfart

^ just under70 but same sentiment. I can wait.


----------



## corelz125

They got that to you pretty quick Kenny. Do they have left handed dies for the Y adjusters?


----------



## Lazyman

You guys are too nice. Tell him to stop screwing around and mail those dang things.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> You guys are too nice. Tell him to stop screwing around and mail those dang things.
> 
> - Lazyman


Kenny,

Stop screwing around and mail those dang things.

VR,
Smitty


----------



## controlfreak

Remember Hokie prime is free and next day shipping, you all are members right?


----------



## HokieKen

> They got that to you pretty quick Kenny. Do they have left handed dies for the Y adjusters?
> 
> - corelz125


Nope. I looked specifically. They have the 9/32 taps and dies but only right-handed ones.



> You guys are too nice. Tell him to stop screwing around and mail those dang things.
> 
> - Lazyman
> 
> Kenny,
> 
> Stop screwing around and mail those dang things.
> 
> VR,
> Smitty
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Nathan has yours Smitty.


----------



## corelz125

Just turn the right hand ones backwards and upside down then it will work on a left handed thread.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oops.


----------



## HokieKen

> Remember Hokie prime is free and next day shipping, you all are members right?
> 
> - controlfreak


Hokie prime shipping is always free after you pay for it. And it's always shipped next day. The next day I go to the post office ;-)


----------



## DanKrager

Corelz125, it just doesn't work that way. You have to do it with mirrors.

What size left hand threads are needed? If they're SAE maybe I can help.

DanK


----------



## corelz125

I wish a die could work that way. There's been a few times I really needed to clean up the adjuster threads.


----------



## HokieKen

It's a 9/32-24 LH thread Dan.


----------



## HokieKen

I picked up some mailers on my lunch break and addressed them. So now I just have to stuff them when I get home tonight and drop them at the PO tomorrow so hopefully most of y'all will get the tap and/or die by the end of the week. Except Mos' and drsurfrat. They're unfortunate enough to have pending packages heading their way in the near future so they have to wait a little longer ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

> I wish a die could work that way. There s been a few times I really needed to clean up the adjuster threads.
> 
> - corelz125


Pick one of these up corelz. You can clean up most any thread that falls in the pitches on it. LH or RH doesn't matter. I typically use one of these before I bother chasing with a die because it takes less effort and material removal is minimal and 75% of the time it's all that's needed.


----------



## DanKrager

I have 7/32 - 24 LH and 9/32 - 20 LH taps and dies, but not 9/32 - 24 which are available here RH. I got a very complete set of British taps and dies for LH that are commonly sold to antique car guys at very reasonable cost from a company called ALPS.

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

The 9/32-24 RH is the right thread for the lever cap screw if anybody needs that. Fortunately, I've never had a depth adjuster that the internal threads were too damaged to use. And the only time I've had really damaged external threads, I was able to fix them with a thread file like the one I linked up there^^.


----------



## HokieKen

Not sure if this is a bad casting or if the front end was broken and ground back? Thought maybe one you Stanley guys would be interested if this is a known variant that may be collectible. The front looks like it's the right shape and BAILEY is pretty even so I'm thinking it may have been a poorly set insert in the casting tooling.


----------



## Mosquito

given that it's missing 4", I'm guessing some came off the front, and obviously some came off the back too


----------



## adot45

Here is a "normal" #7 toe, that one looks like a regrind to me.


----------



## HokieKen

Ahhhh. Didn't even notice that it was a #7. Just assumed it was a #6. Nevermind :-/


----------



## drsurfrat

Yea, somebody stumped it. And replaced the lat lever. I imagine it was in pretty bad shape at one point, good effort making it usable.


----------



## HokieKen

Alright, taps and dies are on their way to their new homes. Looks like they are all scheduled to arrive on Saturday. If anybody needs tracking, shoot me a PM.


----------



## Mosquito

I mean, functionally between a 6 and a shortened 7, not much really, same width iron, same size now lol


----------



## Notw

it's like the sawed off shotgun of No. 7's


----------



## DevinT

Makes it easier to conceal the plane in a trench coat


----------



## bandit571

I had a KK7 like that, at one time…..most was cut from the back end…..threw the balance of the plane way off, was VERY "nose heavy"


----------



## controlfreak

> I had a KK7 like that, at one time…..most was cut from the back end…..threw the balance of the plane way off, was VERY "nose heavy"
> 
> - bandit571


I guess they wanted a low rider plane.


----------



## HokieKen

Damn Patrick Leach and his sweet MF #7!


----------



## bandit571

Imagine IF it was a Type 1…....THEN you can complain..


----------



## Mosquito

I was more eyeballing the Hamler #50 repro lol


----------



## HokieKen

I'd actually probably prefer a T2 Bandit so it fits with the rest of my collection. I wouldn't kick a T1 out of bed though. At $590, I guess I'll stay married and just keep dreaming…


----------



## adot45

<--- New owner of a #12-20 die - Thanks Kenny


----------



## Ocelot

I recieved the Leach list too…. wrote down some numbers on a postit note. Now all I gotta do is throw it in the trash.


----------



## HokieKen

That was quick adot!


----------



## adot45

> That was quick adot!
> 
> - HokieKen


Well, that's the USPS in action for ya……being bordering states doesn't hurt either, lol.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'm on the hunt for some parts for this plane:


----------



## bandit571

Maybe build it a casket, instead…


----------



## Ocelot

Broken off lateral. So you want a frog too? Is this Ohio or what?


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'm not sure who made the plane but it's a Keen Kutter KK8.

A stanley frog would work, I believe. I might swap the frog from my old No 8 to this plane after I get it cleaned up and give it a try.


----------



## HokieKen

I say throw a blade, chipbreaker and lever cap on it and go to town Mike. You'll have to set it with a hammer but that's not a new concept. I think it'll work fine with the decapitated frog.


----------



## Berto

I also received my T&D today- perfect fit
Thanks again Kenny


----------



## HokieKen

Looks like my fellow VA jock and our neighbor in WV got the first deliveries  There was one that went to NC too. Let's see if that one takes longer…


----------



## drsurfrat

KK's were made for thick irons, right, or is that the single K's? Is that a 22 or 24" long plane? looks like an eight in the pic, but can't be sure.
I have a n OHIO iron (thick wedge) but it's 2+3/8", not 2+5/8…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Mike, It is 24" long KK8 C. I'll give it a clean and see what it looks like.


----------



## drsurfrat

Sorry, I got nothin' for you in that size. It'll be fun to put together, though


----------



## sansoo22

KK = Ohio Tool and K = early Bedrock clones. I checked the parts drawer and don't have anything larger than 2-3/8" for KK planes.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thank you guys. I appreciate you checking. I would imagine that I will run onto something sooner or later. I think this casting is a good one. Seems flat enough. Looks like the frog was broken many years ago. The sole of the plane doesn't have much in the way of scratches. Yes, it will be fun to fix up. Have to dig out my PCV pipe that I soak stuff like it in. I don't see any cracks in the casting but will check again after I give it a soak.


----------



## corelz125

Mike a frog for that kk8 is a needle in the haystack. Quite a few #2's on this months list. Never thought there was a Marsh or Zenith #2 ever made. Mos how about the KK boxwood rule? That looks like it came out of the Sansoo museum. Was it Andre that was looking for the Sargent 514?


----------



## adot45

Sorry Blaster, I knew I had a box of stuff with several larger frogs but when I dug through it 2 3/8" were the largest sizes that I have. Flea markets this week end though and I'll keep an eye out for one.


----------



## corelz125

Ohio #8s are tough to find.


----------



## BlasterStumps

i took the frog, and blade from the pre-1900s No 8 that I have and put it in the KK8. Works great. The frogs are made the same but the machined bed for the frog is a slight different design. Doesn't matter though as they basically take the same frog. So, if I don't find an Ohio Tool, I might run across a Stanley. That makes me feel a little better about the plane. Thought for a bit that I was going to have to take Bandit's advice.

One thing is for sure, that tote is damned uncomfortable with the pointed end on it. I got to fix that.


----------



## HokieKen

Very cool Mike! I'll keep an eye open for a Stanley or Ohio frog and a blade/chipbreaker/lever cap.


----------



## HokieKen

KK8 Blade and Chipbreaker
KK8 Lever Cap
KK8 Blade
KK8 Chipbreaker
Another Blade

So parts aren't scarce at least. No real bargains there though… I didn't see any frogs currently listed but there were several KK frogs for other size planes so I imagine they'll pop up from time to time.

And I think MWTCA has resumed their swap meets and I know Mos sniffs out the KK stuff so maybe he can turn some parts up


----------



## bandit571

Have an Ohio No. 0-7 in the shop…this is what a full frog would be..









And this is what the frog seat would look like..


















Hex hole….that has a bad habit of bending and snapping..









So…My No. 0-7 now has a Stanley iron..









More pictures…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Once again, Thanks guys for the help. I'm in some shops on occasion that possibly could have some misc plane parts so who knows maybe one day a frog will be inone of them. Thanks again.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Another thought on the KK8…If someone is looking hard for an 8-size plane, let me know. I would let it go for $55 plus shipping. I already have one so don't really need another monster laying around. : )


----------



## BlasterStumps

Got my package today. YAY! Thank you Mr. HokieKen.


----------



## corelz125

Very tempting Mike


----------



## rad457

Someone mention a Sargent 514 Maybe? Last one I saw was Way above my reach! Returned from the West Coast a proud owner of a #3 Handyman, a friend of my Mom knew I was interested in old Planes and got it for me. First glance I saw the size and a bright red frog and got some what excited until I saw the Handyman badge. Did I mention broken tote? LOL! will grab a Pic tomorrow.


----------



## drsurfrat

Can anyone down under tell me about this one? Does everyone have one in their garage? A Falcon jack plane (14"), by Pope. It seems similar to the Millers Falls planes with the lat adjuster, red frog, knurled depth wheel. It's on the opposite side of the globe from where it started.

The blade says "Rockwell tested", but not to what hardness. 























































good site:
https://www.htpaa.org.au/hand-tools/australian-tools-makers/australian-makers/pope-tools


----------



## rad457

OOOPS #4 not a #3









Nothing on the Falcon, but I do have as #4 Hoke from Germany


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Other Pope hand plane web pages:

https://www.lumberjocks.com/Momcanfixit/blog/35197

https://thevillagewoodworker.blogspot.com/2012/04/falcon-pope-hand-planes-small-review.html

https://www.toolexchange.com.au/ has a few for sale too.


----------



## corelz125

The 514 is no bargain Andre it's on Leechs tool list for July


----------



## rad457

Sort of what I figured, the reason I finally picked up the New SW #62 as a user. Plus when I figure in Exchange and shipping? (And a Wife who has no sense of humor) "WHAT MORE TOOLS?


----------



## bandit571

LONG time ago…









When Sears sold a Companion line of tools….


----------



## rad457

Good thing you posted that Pic of the Handyman, was thinking something different for the Tote, found a chunk of 
scrap Birch that should work fine!


----------



## bandit571

Seems there was another company that used a triangle in their logo…








Blatz. This is a can/bottle opener found in today's Yard Sale find..









When was the last time you needed one of these, to open a can of beer?


----------



## controlfreak

The big hole to let the beer out and the small hole to let the air in.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Not seen one of these before
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194218841618?hash=item2d38585612:g:GHEAAOSwkMFg2IsR


----------



## Mosquito

They pop up on occasion, and get discussed at about the same frequency "around" lol They're interesting little planes. A lot smaller than what you would think. I like the idea that the spurs and the iron are separate, but stacked


----------



## Mosquito

And I did not win it lol


----------



## MikeB_UK

I'll keep an eye out for you Mos, might stumble across one in an antique shop now I know what to look for.
Wouldn't get too optimistic though


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Picture for Kenny….and others…









A Type 4 No. 9 was a tad busy….yesterday…


----------



## Ocelot

Tap and Die arrived. Thanks Ken!


----------



## HokieKen

Everyone's tap and die should have made it by Saturday except for Mos' and drsurfrat. If anyone's doesn't get there by tonight, let me know and I'll check tracking.


----------



## Mosquito

> I ll keep an eye out for you Mos, might stumble across one in an antique shop now I know what to look for.
> Wouldn t get too optimistic though
> 
> - MikeB_UK


I would seriously consider it if the price was right… I was actually the high bid on it when you posted it lol


----------



## Mosquito

> Everyone's tap and die should have made it by Saturday except for Mos' and drsurfrat. If anyone's doesn't get there by tonight, let me know and I'll check tracking.
> 
> - HokieKen


I got mine, I don't remember which day, but they are in the shop, and seeing as how USPS didn't do deliveries today or yesterday, must have been either Friday or Saturday lol (I was at the cabin Thursday night until Sunday evening)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Now I'm ready for the next time window frames need planing!


----------



## controlfreak

I was checking in on Ebay and a nice Bailey No. 5 with three patent dates only had two minutes left and was $40 so I thought "maybe everyone is at the beach" I waited for the last 5 seconds and it quickly escalated to $89. I guess they still had internet on vacation.


----------



## HokieKen

.


----------



## controlfreak

Yeah, there was a reason that $40.00 cought my eye Kenny. I was thinking $41 is close enough.


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, I assume the aluminum ones are more delicate than the iron ones?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Don't over-tighten the frog (which is also alum, btw). But otherwise, they seem pretty tough. My No. 4 isn't abused, though.


----------



## HokieKen

I have a couple planes with Aluminum frogs. 









Base is still cast iron though and I wouldn't call em lightweights…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

So cooll!


----------



## Lazyman

You need to take a picture Kenny that shows how well the BR's hover.


----------



## bandit571

Was the Type 4s the last "Good" type Millers Falls made?


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, it was Bandit. After that, the machining of the frog and mating surfaces was changed to pretty much cleaning up the cast surfaces on a disk sander from what I've seen and gleaned from others. They also did away with the 3 point lever cap and went to cheap wood and phillips head screws. I'm not a big fan of the solid adjuster wheel or the tropical hardwood on the type 4s but functionally, they're just as good as earlier types IMO.


----------



## corelz125

I passed on one of those type 4 MFs the other day. Think it was going for $25. Think it was a #9


----------



## HokieKen

Type 1 MF10 for $100 with free shipping.

Somebody snag it and save me from slipping down the slope to collecting a set of Type 1s please. I already have two #10s :-/


----------



## HokieKen

I knew it wouldn't last. Whew! I dodged that bullet ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Did y'all know your Ebay watchlist can fill up? It would seem 400 is the limit. Seems kinda dumb for a site that makes money when people buy things to put a cap on how many things users can think about buying…


----------



## corelz125

Watching 400 items is way more than I need to watch. I don't think I ever watched 100 items


----------



## HokieKen

A lil sumpin for somebody.


----------



## drsurfrat

O that's so cool.

Sorry you bled all over it to make the cuts.


----------



## drsurfrat

On a more selfish note, here is what I did with my stop-groove plane










a little cleaner than a chisel. I only had to chisel out less than an inch at the ends.


----------



## HokieKen

I bleed beer Mike.

Very cool with the stopped groove


----------



## DevinT

Ken. I am jealous. I want to be able to machine metal like that.


----------



## rad457

The Handyman has made sum Shavings, not completely original anymore, couldn't bring myself to paint the new Tote


----------



## bandit571

random plane photos from today….









One face of the panel, was worse than the other..









Wound up feeling…Groovy, man….









Millers Falls No. 15, laying down on the job…









After all, it had just finished those 2 bevels….


----------



## sansoo22

Some planes headed off to a local charity next week. The block planes aren't anything to speak of. A couple 220s, a couple 110s, and a 120. One of the 110s has a V-Logo and was in pretty darn good shape so I left all of its original finishes intact.

The 2 bench planes are a Stanley Type 14 #4 and a Keen Kutter K3C. Both of them have some pretty significant imperfections that I didn't notice until getting them all cleaned up. But they will still make some fine users.


----------



## RWE

Not exactly handplane related, but close. I have been feeling left out and depressed for years now. I am constantly reading where someone put the plane iron or body on a grinder with a big wire wheel. I have done the wire wheel on my drill press but always felt like I was missing something vital in the refurb world. My slow speed Rikon grinder stays set up for Wolverine stuff, so I never wanted to put a wire wheel on it.

Today at an estate sale, i got this baby for $3.00.










Got to put it to use today and it sure beats the Dremel and the drill press with wire wheels. The fellow whose goods were being sold had connected a foot power switch. It is heavy and I will have to find a way to secure it to the bench. Used clamps today and that worked ok.

So I don't have to feel bad anymore. I also managed to lacerate the back of my left index finger a bit. Oh well.

Looks like i need to refinish the cedar potting bench too.


----------



## ac0rn

Sansoo,
Sweet as usual.


----------



## HokieKen

You can't beat a wire wheel sometimes RWE. It can cut clean up times way down 

What kind of charity Sansoo? Are they being auctioned off or sold or is it for a WW group?


----------



## sansoo22

> What kind of charity Sansoo? Are they being auctioned off or sold or is it for a WW group?
> 
> - HokieKen


Its kind of like Restore but focused on arts, crafts, and trades. They have a store front they sell from. Pre-pandemic they had adult learning courses focused on the trades and of course those got canceled. Last time I talked with them they were trying to spin those classes up again and gear some of those towards teach new skills to homeless folks around the city. So I don't know what they are going to do with the planes. Most of these were given to me so I'm just trying to pay it forward in my own small way I guess.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sansoo, beautiful.

RWE, congrats! (I'm still a have-not…)


----------



## corelz125

I have a wire wheel on my bench top grinder and I use it for a lot of different things.


----------



## Lazyman

That's a great idea Sansoo. I have sort of curtailed my plane hunting some because I have run out of room but if I can find a charity that would put them to good use, I would always have a way to move them on.


----------



## CO_Goose

> So I don t have to feel bad anymore. I also managed to lacerate the back of my left index finger a bit. Oh well.
> 
> - RWE


RWE, Use Heavy Leather Gloves. After a couple of run-ins with a spinning wire wheel, I never go near it without leather gloves. It seems that I am too much of a klutz to keep my hands safe.

Goose


----------



## HokieKen

As a general rule, gloves around spinning machinery is a no-no…


----------



## RWE

I was sitting in church this morning and felt my irritated index finger. It has a nice rosy color near the nail. I resolved to wear gloves the next time I used the wire wheel.

I believe that God was speaking to me. Telling me that gloves would give me comfort and protection.

Then Kenny (must be allied with the other side) tells me not to wear gloves???


----------



## donwilwol

I don't wear gloves with the wire wheel. I tried that. Now I tend to use pliers and vise grips a lot. when my skin is close I have learned to be very careful. Getting to close is like a burn that's removed skin. After 2 or 3 times you will learn.

The first time your glove is seared to your skin you'll decide not to wear gloves and just be extremely cautious.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I use heavy leather gloves for two machines, the belt sander, and the wire wheel on the grinder. But they're gloves that are sized correctly for normal humans, so they're pretty dang tight on my hands. I'll probably get caught and lose an entire arm some day, but for now they save me from lots of little oopses.


----------



## bandit571

No gloves in my shop…of any kind…can hold items close to the wire wheels with a pair of Visegrips….Regular jaws or needle nosed.

I would rather NOT have the glove get caught on any spinning object.


----------



## RWE

Don W. et al. I am working on a scraper. I have two of them. One is a Sargent and the other is a Starret. I will post pictures after refurb. Both have a handle that can pivot and lock at different positions. Both have square irons/scrapper blades. One side of the 4 sides has a beveled edge, the other sides are flat.

I understand putting the hook on the flat sides. Just like a card scraper, the hook gives you a great edge for finishing wood.

Is the beveled side just meant to be sharpened and used with a sharp edge or are you supposed to turn a very fine hook on it as well. Seems to me that it should just be sharp. Never thought about it. I am not even sure if you could put a fine hook on it and if so would it last. I guess you could if you follow the bevel.

Probably just a dumb question, but I never thought about it before and I am getter dumber by the day.


----------



## bandit571

Usually, the hook is applied to the edge with the 45…..rolled towards the "back" of the blade…some out there even sharpen the opposite edge, so that when one edge gets a bit dull, flip the blade over, and use the other sharpened edge…

Would the Stanley be a No. 82, by chance?


----------



## Ocelot

RWE, I don't want to imagine a wire wheel on skin.

The other thing they do is throw wires at you. I would wear a full face shield and keep eyes away from the plane of rotation. I remember my Dad got a wire or two shot into his arm.


----------



## Lazyman

One thing that I learned when making a cabinet scraper for the plane swap is that you don't need to use much pressure to get a good hook when there is bevel. I was doing it like you do with a card scraper and over rolling the edge.

Here are instructions for the Stlanley scrapers blades.









EDIT:
This one should be easier to read. I converted it from the PDF file I have to jpeg









Send me a PM if you would like a copy of the PDF.


----------



## sansoo22

You need a Stanley #185 if you're going to follow the Stanley instructions









But I agree with Nathan when putting the hook on a cabinet scraper iron. With practice you can do it in about 3 or 4 strokes and if you have a #185 use the tip to pull the hook up to the proper angle. Most likely overkill on the last bit but I sure think it works very well.


----------



## DevinT

Narex makes a good burnishing rod. That's what I have.


----------



## bandit571

I think I wore these two out, today..









Looks like they decided to take a nap…..

See through shavings…..all well and good for showing off, but…









It takes forever for a Stanley 45 to get 5/16" depth…









Other groove for today ( I need to do 2 grooves)...I reset the depth stop a hair deeper….trying for about…egg noodle shavings…..got done in half the time…









Trimming a panel for width…









Getting there…then rebevel the edges…for a better fit..









All to get a lid for a box glued up..today..









Was a very busy day….


----------



## DevinT

bandit, excellent work and thanks for sharing, as always.


----------



## RWE

I have a good burnisher that I will use. Thanks for the info. The Starrett scraper was an Antique Store find and I have used it off and on. I am refurbing the Sargent scraper now. I like how you can adjust angles easily to find the sweet spot for shaving a surface.

Trying to up my game and get things a bit more correct. Good info. Thanks again to all the replies.

PM sent to Lazyman.


----------



## RWE

> RWE, I don t want to imagine a wire wheel on skin.
> 
> The other thing they do is throw wires at you. I would wear a full face shield and keep eyes away from the plane of rotation. I remember my Dad got a wire or two shot into his arm.
> 
> - Ocelot


I think I got off easy. I have some short (1/8th inch or so) parallel lines just below the nail on the left index. Kind of a neat pattern. It has quit hurting for the most part now.

The biggest thing that hurts is how dumb I feel.

We had a thread here where shop accidents got shared and discussed a bit. I jointed off the tip of one of my left hand fingers several years ago. I think I have had two stitch requiring chisel wounds. As long as I don't sever an arm, I will be ok.

Ever since the finger tip got power jointed off, I have been pretty cautious. I guess the joy of actually getting a wire wheel and motor got me off balance. LOL


----------



## HokieKen

> …
> Then Kenny (must be allied with the other side) tells me not to wear gloves???
> 
> - RWE


I've been accused of worse ;-)

In all seriousness, gloves are a bad idea with a wire wheel. If the good Lord really is trying to coerce you otherwise, I would encourage you to use some thick Nitrile or Viton gloves that will give some protection but will still tear free of your meathooks of they should get caught up in the wheel. In the shop at work the only gloves allowed are ones that will pull off or tear. There's good reason. Lots of former machinists walking around out there with a mangled paw thanks to leather gloves and a lathe or grinder.


----------



## Lazyman

I've been wondering about gloves that are safer for use around machinery. Quick google search found these with tear away zones. There are others out there as well. I might have to get some. When rough turning bowl blanks, especially with lots of bark on them, the chips hitting my hand can be pretty uncomfortable. I've even had a a piece of bark hit just right and get under my fingernail.

EDIT: These are the only "safety gloves" other than nitril on Amazon.


----------



## donwilwol

RWE, you will find different scraper sharpening works better in different woods. Try what works best for you but you can keep them square and pull a burr, sharpen at an angle (45 deg is recommended but I do 25 because that's what my grinder is set at). With the beveled edge you can leave it and scrape or pull a burr. You can also sharpen like a knife and scrape. I use a knife on bows a lot. I make narrow scrapers from old saw plates, these get an angle and a burr. So play around and find what you like.


----------



## HokieKen

These are the gloves I use at work now. They are thicker than typical so they will offer some protection against abrasion but not a whole lot. They are tight-fitting and rip easily though so there's no danger in them pulling your hand into the lathe/grinder. The texturing works pretty well too and they're tight enough that you still have some feel while you're working. At home I just use the Harbor Freight nitirile gloves but almost always just to keep stuff clean. I rarely, if ever, wear gloves when I'm working on something on a power tool.


----------



## HokieKen

I constantly turn burrs on my scrapers to adjust how they function. Once you get a feel for it, it's pretty intuitive to make it a little more/less aggressive with a quick swipe or two on one side or the other with a burnisher. On my scraper planes, I hone a 45 degree bevel like the instructions Lazyman posted call for. I feel like the burrs on those last longer than the ones on hand held scrapers for me but that could be owing more to the thicker blade than the bevel. I also sharpen both sides on my cabinet scrapers but you gotta remember that the side sticking up can cut ya. DAMHIKT.

Don's comment makes me wonder though how tweaking the bevel angle might affect longevity?


----------



## RWE

Great minds Hokie. I have been turning this over in my mind and it seems that a thick nitrile would be best. I have resolved to not do any wire wheel work on smaller parts like I was when I got the abrasion. If I do, I will use vise grips.

I have never used gloves around my lathe, but I have never turned really large objects that might get catchy if I had gloves on anyway. I realize a small object could grab as well, but I exercise a lot of control with the lathe and keep the rest very close to the work to prevent tools grabbing or fingers getting pulled in. My fingers never get near the work, always behind the rest.

Jointing off the fingertip years back was probably the best lesson I ever got. Ever since I make sure that if I am doing anything potentially "interesting" that I exercise a lot of caution and that I am fully alert and focused.

I was enjoying the new wire wheel/motor thing, now thanks to Ocelot, all I can visualize is a wire sticking out of my eyeball LOL. Thankfully, I do have to wear glasses to see so I never have my eyes exposed.



> RWE, I don t want to imagine a wire wheel on skin.
> 
> The other thing they do is throw wires at you. I would wear a full face shield and keep eyes away from the plane of rotation. I remember my Dad got a wire or two shot into his arm.
> 
> - Ocelot


----------



## corelz125

I use these with a grinder all the time. They saved my fingers plenty of times.


----------



## HokieKen

My biggest worry with gloves on the grinder isn't so much the wheel grabbing the glove (though that is more of a possibility with a wire wheel) but the glove getting pinched between a rest or guard and the wheel and getting pulled in that way. For the same reason, you won't find any wheel covers on any of my grinders. But, I digress. I think everyone here has a good helping of common sense 

RWE - wire wheels will definitely launch wires at you. Fortunately I've never had one fly above the work but glasses are always a good idea with a grinder. Don't wear your flip flops when you wire wheel though ;-)


----------



## ac0rn

Glasses are always a good idea for anything in the shop. With machines a face shield too.


----------



## DevinT

Wouldn't the simplest solution be to just stand off to the side when using the wire wheel? I'm not saying this is a substitute for PPE, but that if you are standing to the side it doesn't matter if you are wearing kaki's or denim, shorts or pants, or are completely naked with just an apron. Let the wires shoot where they want, just plan on not being in the way when they do.


----------



## RWE

I think there is always the issue of deflection off of the work that you are holding. So eye protection at least, which I do since I wear glasses. I can deal with a few wires embedded in my skin occasionally.

Neighbors will talk if I run around naked with just an apron. Police might call on me as well.

Now Kenny naked, but wearing his cape, that would probably be okay. Kind of a superhero thing.


----------



## HokieKen

Not a superhero thing. Just a Monday.


----------



## bandit571

All depends on how HARD you are pushing an object into the wire wheel….

Then, there is always the one about a part either getting stuck between the wheel and the tool rest..or..getting tossed across the shop, never to be found…

When the wheel starts to toss wires out at you,,,getting time for a new wheel…


----------



## sansoo22

> Wouldn t the simplest solution be to just stand off to the side when using the wire wheel? I m not saying this is a substitute for PPE, but that if you are standing to the side it doesn t matter if you are wearing kaki s or denim, shorts or pants, or are completely naked with just an apron. Let the wires shoot where they want, just plan on not being in the way when they do.
> 
> - DevinT


That is a lot easier said than done. The wire wheels, buffer pads, etc that are spinning at 3450 RPM are literally trying to take whatever you are holding and throw them into the floor or rocket them across the shop with the speed and precision of a musket ball.

A lot of it has to do with the power of the motor, the wheel size, and grit being used. For example on my little 1/5 HP Delta the coarse wire wheel can toss some stuff around and remove skin pretty quick where as the fine wire wheel is like getting hit with 220 grit paper on a sander…burns a little but no real damage done.

Then there is the high speed buffer which will try to launch small parts in to orbit if given the chance and its only 1/2 HP. Can't wait to see what the 1 HP unit I want to upgrade to will do…might need some Kevlar.

Finally I have an 8" real brass wire wheel on my 3/4 HP grinder and I don't know if you can hurt yourself on that without trying really hard.

And as always your results may vary. An old football injury has left my hands with less than optimal nerve sensation so what is an irritant to me might actually be painful to others.


----------



## DevinT

Thanks for the education! I think I know enough to use one now. I'll keep a look out for one. They are primarily good for polishing metal, right? Any other cool uses I should know about?


----------



## rad457

> Not a superhero thing. Just a Monday.
> 
> - HokieKen


Or Tuesday, or Wednesday, or Thursday,,,,,,,

I switched to Leather Chaps Harley Davidson of course!


----------



## HokieKen

> Thanks for the education! I think I know enough to use one now. I'll keep a look out for one. They are primarily good for polishing metal, right? Any other cool uses I should know about?
> 
> - DevinT


Wire wheel is more geared to stripping rust/paint/plating from metals rather than polishing. It won't generally leave a finish you want to leave as final. Typically you'll move on to polishing after wire brushing.


----------



## RWE

> When the wheel starts to toss wires out at you,,,getting time for a new wheel…
> 
> - bandit571


Anyone have a recommendation for a wire wheel brand? I usually prefer shopping on Amazon, but I do have a Woodcraft and a Harbor Freight nearby.


----------



## HokieKen

Harbor Freight wheels work fine but they're a little coarser than I prefer. If you have a Lowes nearby, they sell a Norton brand 6" that's brass coated steel wire that I think works very well.


----------



## donwilwol

i've had this one since Mar 17, 2015, still going strong and has had an awful lot of use." https://amzn.to/3AVbfk0":https://amzn.to/3AVbfk0


----------



## donwilwol

i've had this one since Mar 17, 2015, still going strong and has had an awful lot of use." https://amzn.to/3AVbfk0":https://amzn.to/3AVbfk0


----------



## RWE

Thanks Kenny.

I am boycotting Lowes near me because of such poor management, but there is one not to much further away that is okay. I went in and pulled a stack of "straight" deck lumber (yeah right) and left it on a cart labeled with my name and that I would pick it up the next day, per the store's procedures. I spent two hours on that. The next day, the cart was gone, no explanation, and no "give a damn" from the management.

From my point of view, the idea of customer service and competency in staff and management pretty much is a dying idea from the past. Folks punch in and punch out and don't give a rat's ass about whether they do a job well or not.

I have switched to Home Depot for big box stuff. The Lowes near my daughter's house is great. Top notch staff and management. Management and competency is very location dependent it seems.


----------



## HokieKen

Here's the one I like from Lowes RWE if you want to check stock before you make a trip. Note it's a 6" wheel with 1/2" arbor so make sure it fits.

I don't even have a grinder that will push that one Don. I need to set up a belt-driven arbor to run off my belt grinder motor so I can run a big one.


----------



## Notw

so after the wire wheel is on one side, what do you guys recommend for the polishing side for polishing cast iron planes? Do you need special adaptors to make a cotton wheel fit a bench grinder?


----------



## HokieKen

Nope. Just get a stitched cotton wheel that's 6 or 8 inches depending on your grinder. It'll come with reducer washers as necessary.

Personally, I don't find polishing very effective with cast iron. It's too coarse of a grain structure. I do my polishing on hand planes with wet/dry paper or scotchbrite. Buffing wheel with green compound works well for steel, brass, aluminum and most stainless.


----------



## donwilwol

> so after the wire wheel is on one side, what do you guys recommend for the polishing side for polishing cast iron planes? Do you need special adaptors to make a cotton wheel fit a bench grinder?
> 
> - Notw


Get a deburring wheel instead if your going to use it on cast

Edit, looks like Amazon doesn't carry the one I bought, so pick one, https://amzn.to/3k9Qs6a. Mine is a 6" and I bought it in 2014. Still going strong.


----------



## bandit571

Hmm..









Mine….6" clothe ( Unicorn Edge system) 6" Brass wire wheel ( rehab work…all things Rusty & Krusty)


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane photo…









Matching a Lid to a Box…


----------



## r33tc0w

Stumbled across this guy's YouTube page.. has some beautifully made infills:
https://youtube.com/shorts/Cq7uXDplYs8?feature=share


----------



## Mosquito

looks like you can buy them too
https://www.nevilleplanes.com/


----------



## Peteybadboy

Wow beautiful planes!


----------



## DevinT

Neither adjusters nor snecked blades nor strike buttons? Beautiful but I think I would pass for an A55 from HNT Gordon (not an infill, but damned useful made out of extremely hard Ringed Gidgee).


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Neither adjusters nor snecked blades nor strike buttons? Beautiful but I think I would pass for an A55 from HNT Gordon (not an infill, but damned useful made out of extremely hard Ringed Gidgee).
> 
> - DevinT


I'll have to test it to be sure, front handle that close to the iron works fine as a stike point, never tried one at an angle though.
What do you reckon from the pics, about 30 degrees?

That paternmakers casting I was having a play with I didn't bother with a stike button, just used front handle top and front for adjustment.


----------



## MikeB_UK

That was a different thread so for reference - this, not as pretty but same general shape


----------



## donwilwol

I don't believe you'd ever need to sneck a 1/4" thick blade and most smoothers didn't have a strike button. Once you learn to use this type of plane you find adjusters annoying if you want very fine adjustment. It is a bit of a learning curve though.


----------



## DevinT

Time and again I am blown away by the number of people that say once you learn how to use a plane without an adjuster that it becomes preferred over an adjuster.

I say hokem. Here's why:

Time and again I see YouTube videos where planes lacking adjuster are plodded on-screen and within 5 seconds the person says they won't be using it because it is set up for something else and they won't take it apart because it is set how they like it.

If you collect hand tools, or have 20 hand planes all set without an adjuster but ready to go, then I will suspect you are unlike most YouTube creators. However the glut of people willing to parade their plane instead of use it on camera tells me that a lack of an adjuster is a bigger deal than they are willing make it on-screen. Otherwise, why is *only* the folks with 30 years of experience in wood working that favor all-hand-tool approaches with 20+ hand planes that are actually willing to use an adjuster-less plane on-camera and for an actual task that is not just a demonstration?

I would also like to point out that a number of times I've seen videos with people that have adjuster-less planes sitting in a till in the background as they reach for a plane with an adjuster.

Is an adjuster required? No way!

Is an adjuster useless? No way!

Is an adjuster less accurate? Nope! Give me a 1/4-28, 10-32, or pretty much any thread pitch/size and I will tell you within 5 minutes of using it what the turn measurements are to achieve 0.001" depth of advancement.

Back-lash? Please! Taking out the slack becomes second nature after about 10 seconds of use, not to mention that you only need to remove the slack when you back the blade off and then re-advance the adjuster to remove the slack.

It's just different and the differences I attribute to workflow and personal needs.

I personally think it takes more time to stop what I am doing and pick up a hammer and lose my spot than it is to stay on the board and turn a knob without moving the plane.

If you're working a wide/long board ain't nobody got time to fiddle with a hammer. I prefer to use one tool at a time.

By the way, I'm just cranky right now because the cafeteria at the hospital closes early on Sunday and I can't get a snack right now without sending out for food.


----------



## DevinT

I was able to get a sandwich from the nurses. Feeling better. Sorry DW. Lots of love.


----------



## donwilwol

This is why you can buy hand planes with all the fancy adjuster and gizmos and and basic no frills no adjuster type plain Jane hand plane.

That's why you can learn to sharpen your plane blades by hand, or spend lots of money on fancy jigs and gizmos.

You said it yourself, "I personally think…...."

Work however makes you happy.

If you don't have time, then your right, there are lots of devices to make it quicker. Only you can draw the line.

Hope all goes well in the hospital.


----------



## HokieKen

I see both sides and won't discriminate against any plane based solely on adjuster vs non-adjuster. I actually feel like a lateral adjuster is of more benefit than a depth adjuster. It's quite easy to tweak the depth of cut with a hammer. But, as Devin pointed out, I do like being able to adjust the depth mid-stroke while I'm planing too. It also depends a lot on the adjuster design. A crappy adjuster can be a severe frustration.

So there, I drew my line. I'll take either ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

I sometimes use my brass hokie-hammer on my depth-adjusted planes too…


----------



## HokieKen

That's funny, I use mine on my SkeeterSmoother


----------



## HokieKen

There's a Buck Rogers jack up for grabs.


----------



## Mosquito

good thing I didn't have to make you a mallet or you may have called it a skeeter-beater, and that just sounds wrong lol


----------



## HokieKen

As soon as I read that, I knew there was no way skeeter beater wasn't used for something


----------



## Lazyman

> There s a Buck Rogers jack up for grabs.
> 
> - HokieKen


The nob almost looks liike it is painted. Some clown probably 3D printed it.


----------



## HokieKen

Welcome home my new friends


----------



## sansoo22

You just had to go and "one up" me and get them both huh. Looks like they barely saw any use.


----------



## HokieKen

The one on the right I'm pretty sure is NOS. The instructions don't look like they've ever been opened and it was still wrapped in the oil paper 

I had allowed myself a budget of $40 for one. I got both shipped for that. Stubborn patience and cheapassedry wins again!


----------



## theoldfart

And a little bird……


----------



## Johnny7

> I had allowed myself a budget of $40 for one. I got both shipped for that. Stubborn patience and cheapassedry wins again!
> 
> - HokieKen


*HK*

That deal just moved into first place as score of the month (year?)
Congrats!

*Kevin*-you need to start charging for that service


----------



## HokieKen

The other one appears to have seen light use but it has a weird flat on the roller.









Not sure what would cause that but it's enough to make it unusable. Fortunately, it's easy enough to fix on the lathe. Since that one came my way pretty much as a freebie, I ain't complaining


----------



## controlfreak

I vote for an official "you suck" Kenny, nice one or two!


----------



## HokieKen

And yes, muchos thanks to my little bird  I sure am glad he flies around other forums that I don't frequent to spot deals like these for me!


----------



## HokieKen

> *HK*
> 
> That deal just moved into first place as score of the month (year?)
> Congrats!
> 
> *Kevin*-you need to start charging for that service
> 
> - Johnny7


Maybe the best deal that wasn't from Kev ;-) I'm far more excited about the Langdon Star 41 I got from him last week. Not only did I get a great deal, it's just more of a useful tool to have.

That miter guide and this sharpening guide are both big checks off my Millers Falls list though.

Still on the list are #7 and #209 planes and a 15-1/2 or 16-1/2 Miter Box if anyone stumbles on a bargain ;-) Oh and a Langdon Mitre Trimmer if you have an unused one stuck under your bench….


----------



## DonBroussard

Hokie - I can't pretend to be excited for you, since I have no idea what your new treasures are.


----------



## HokieKen

> There s a Buck Rogers jack up for grabs.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> The nob almost looks liike it is painted. Some clown probably 3D printed it.
> 
> - Lazyman


Lol. Nope, that one's legit. That tennite has a weird reflectivity. I can't exactly explain it because light is both a wave and a particle and I'm just a hillbilly from the mountains of Virginia. But it's actually really easy to spot the real deal from a replica. Which is part of the reason I ha such a hard time dying epoxy to approximate it I think.


----------



## HokieKen

> Hokie - I can't pretend to be excited for you, since I have no idea what your new treasures are.
> 
> - Don Broussard


Thanks for trying anyway Don ;-)

They're Millers Falls 240 honing guides. They're very similar to the Veritas Mk. 1 honing guide but they have an extra thumbscrew up top that moves the casting that the blade is bedded on up and down to "micro"adjust the bevel angle.









It's a pretty great design I think and I'm very surprised no modern toolmakers are copying it. The implementation is mediocre unfortunately. There is too much slop between the cast piece and the stamped steel frame to have reliable, repeatable precision I think. But that could be remedied in a new embodiment.


----------



## DonBroussard

Hokie - Thanks for the explanation. Yay for the MF 240 honing guides!


----------



## RWE

Bandit and other plane experts. I am refurbing my little Defiance #3 equivalent and should have it ready soon. I am going to try some dye to get the front knob and rear tote evened up with the stain residue.

I had a friend just call me and say that there is a Defiance (he believed it was a jack size) at a local antique store for $25.00. Said it was in great shape. On Ebay there were two, one at $35 and another at $65 or so.

I guess I could get it and turn it, but I was wondering what folks thought of them as users. I can put it with my other "look at but don't use" assorted planes I guess.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.


----------



## bandit571

They can be made into decent users….just don't expect LN or LV performances…A jack plane is a jack plane is a jack plane.


----------



## HokieKen

Never owned on so take it with a grain of salt but, I think they rank with Handyman planes. Can be tuned well enough to be generally useable but generally don't bump Bailey line planes out of the till.

And I wouldn't put them in the look but don't touch stack. Nothing particularly pretty about them IMO and as far as I know, nothing collectible about em either.


----------



## bandit571

I guess this should be in the Spokeshave thread, but..









A case for the 4 that I have….all set to go to the…









"Bandit's Dungeon WOOD SHOP" 









Might just do the trick, for now….beats hanging them up on a nail…


----------



## RWE

Well thanks for the comments. My rational brain hears you. My irrational and stronger brain tells me "But you don't have one of those".

Truth is, I don't need another Jack for any reason. I will go by and look at it and if it is clean and no issues, my irrational "collector" self will probably buy it.

All I can say is that I have totally (exception being block planes) kept away from Handyman planes. I drew a line in the sand with that brand. But "Defiance" just is such a good name. Got to love it.

The other issue is that I just don't see that much variety here in the South, so I tend to buy anything that is of interest if it crops up.


> Bandit and other plane experts. I am refurbing my little Defiance #3 equivalent and should have it ready soon. I am going to try some dye to get the front knob and rear tote evened up with the stain residue.
> 
> I had a friend just call me and say that there is a Defiance (he believed it was a jack size) at a local antique store for $25.00. Said it was in great shape. On Ebay there were two, one at $35 and another at $65 or so.
> 
> I guess I could get it and turn it, but I was wondering what folks thought of them as users. I can put it with my other "look at but don t use" assorted planes I guess.
> 
> Any thoughts would be appreciated.
> 
> - RWE


----------



## HokieKen

I say if you want it at whatever the price is, then it's a good buy ;-)


----------



## ac0rn

Honing guide for when I'm tired, and need to restore muscle memory.










And like all the commercial items it is adjustable.


----------



## donwilwol

The defiance is not close to being as crappy as the handyman. My biggest complaint is the lateral lever. For some reason the wing look annoys me. It's also a bit flimsy, but works.

The plane itself I have found usable. And like bandit said, a jack is a jack is a jack.

$25 is on the high side for me, but not having shipping and being held in n your hand before buying is worth quite a bit.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Well said, particularly the part about Defiance not sucking like Handyman tools do.

I have two defiance planes (jack, smoother) that'd use in a pinch for real tasks. The Handymans are solely on static display… why, I have no idea.
.
.
.
Anyone wanna buy a great-looking Handyman collection??


----------



## HokieKen

You should ask RWE. He has a whole pile of planes that are just for looking and not for using. I imagine a Handyman lineup would fit in perfectly! ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> .
> .
> Anyone wanna buy a great-looking Handyman …??
> 
> 
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


If you amend your statement as so^, we can pass the offer along to our wives ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

> Honing guide for when I m tired, and need to restore muscle memory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And like all the commercial items it is adjustable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Jeff


I've never been comfortable relying on my muscle memory for wide, short bevels like plane blades. I'm a jig man all the way.

Here's a couple more pics to show more detail on the Millers Falls guide if anyone's interested.


----------



## RWE

> You should ask RWE. He has a whole pile of planes that are just for looking and not for using. I imagine a Handyman lineup would fit in perfectly! ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Eat your heart out Kenny. I passed on the Defiance. I like a sculpted plane tote and did not need another smoother.









But I did get a great deal on this Buck Rogers slaying plane. Just can't figure out where the iron fits into it.










Isn't a beauty!!! What a plane!!










Actually, I know it is not a plane, but I did buy it because I am sanding some stair treads. Picked up a new detail sander and if this "plane" will hold a sheet of sandpaper, I will put it to use. I am not sure if it was meant for general use or was meant for sheetrock, but I love the clamps and how they work.


----------



## HokieKen

That's a big ole tote on that sander RWE!


----------



## RWE

I think some of that is camera angle. I tried it out and it works fairly well. I made some cork bottomed sanding blocks a while back, but this "plane" may turn out to be useful.


----------



## corelz125

Might work as a nice float for cement work to RWE


----------



## ac0rn

I was thinking a bacon press for the grill


----------



## Mosquito

Hmmm… why not a bacon plane? lol


----------



## HokieKen

Cause I would eat it.


----------



## RWE

Okay. I will offer up the exciting bacon frying/cement float/sanding plane for a buy it now at $50. You could even put it on the shelf and just admire it. That might make you a collector though.


----------



## corelz125

I'm not a plane collector more of a plane hoarder.


----------



## DevinT

I have never seen an adjuster like the one on this unbranded transitional hand plane

Hard to tell how the mechanism works and how the blade is held to the frog.

Anyone ever seen anything like it before?


----------



## DevinT

I admit that I am intrigued by the locking mechanism of the American Boy block plane

Looks like it would be easier to get the blade locked-in compared to other block planes like Craftsman and Stanley with similar frogs (if we can even call them that).


----------



## DevinT

Kenny is influencing me. I can't stop staring at this Miller Falls No. 9

It's so pretty. It still has its tote decal (I didn't even know MF put decals on the tote until now).

I doubt the price will stay that low as the auction comes closer to ending. Wondering how it rides.


----------



## DevinT

I keep telling myself though …

No! You need to be saving your money for the HNT Gordon. Either that, or be buying the parts for your custom adjuster to put into next year's swap plane.


----------



## 33706

> I have never seen an adjuster like the one on this unbranded transitional hand plane
> 
> Hard to tell how the mechanism works and how the blade is held to the frog.
> 
> Anyone ever seen anything like it before?
> 
> - DevinT


That's just a common, everyday Stanley Liberty Bell Plane, Devin. Probably a #127 or #129. I got quite a few of these.


----------



## HokieKen

That #9 is a really well-preserved example Devin. It's on my watchlist just in case it doesn't get bid up. I don't have any type 4s in my collection at present but the chrome plating and decal on that one tempt me if the price is right. If you're going to bid though, shoot me a PM and I'll stand down ;-) I definitely don't need another #9. Don't really use the one I have all that much. It's a great plane, I just prefer it's bigger brother #10 for smoothing chores.

I've never seen one in the wild with the decal on the tote but they are shown in the MF catalogs so I'm guessing it's original. Don't see why anyone would go to the trouble of a repro on a type 4.


----------



## Lazyman

If the #9 MF type 3 that sold yesterday is any indication, it one sold for $75 and it was not as new looking, though appeared to be in good shape.


----------



## HokieKen

It's not uncommon for them to sell in that range if it's in that good condition Nathan. That one had the box too which seems to boost the price 10-20 dollars. That same plane with no box and a little surface rust might only sell for $30 though.


----------



## Lazyman

I put in a bid for $51 knowing I would be outbid but oh well. There is (was?) a rusty one at a local antique mall. They were asking $35 but it was a little rough for that price and didn't want to come down on the price. I guess if you consider no shipping cost, it is probably not a bad deal. It has a couple weird spots on the sole that almost looked like someone had welded to fill a hole or deep pit or something. I should go see if it is still there. and send you guys a picture of the spot to see what you think.


----------



## DevinT

So torn. It's a wonderful specimen and would allow me to test drive MF to see what Kenny loves about them.

On the other hand, I already have an LV Veritas No 4, and I really need a Roubo frame saw.

The Blackburn Tools kit is probably going to be my next purchase. I don't have a full arsenal of tools yet that I can purchase things I want but already have.

I just can't decide on whether to get the 3×36 saw or 4×48


----------



## theoldfart

My choice was the 4×48, it allowed resawing stock that was too much for my PM bandsaw.










At some point I am going to get his smallest size.

I would also recommend getting his kerfing plane kit.


----------



## DevinT

OMG, you have one! I'm so excited to find someone that owns one! Is it as lovely as I suspect to use?

I'm kind of torn between the Blackburn kit and a fully made ready to use Bad Axe One-Sawyer. How hard was it to build the frame (assuming you used the Blackburn kit)?


----------



## theoldfart

The frame was relatively easy. Isaacs plans are excellent. Follow them exactly and the parts fit without much fuss.
It takes some effort to use the big beast. Work holding is the challenge. The kerf plane helped immensely in keeping the cut on track. Watch some of the videos on using the saw, you'll cut down on the learning curve relative to technique. PM me with any questions.


----------



## controlfreak

Now that is something that I must have! Question: Are you able to steer that cut slightly or once you are off you just need to start again from another side?


----------



## theoldfart

The first time I used it it went off direction and I couldn't correct it . So I flipped the stock and went at it from th3 other end. Took some planing but it worked out. Next time paid a lot more attention as I was cutting and the cut was almost perfect. Using the kerfing plane helps significantly.

I do gently guide the saw now as a matter of course, tilting it side to side.


----------



## tshiker

The decal on that MF #9 is NOT original! He says so in the ad.


----------



## HokieKen

I thought it looked really good Tom. Somebody must have called him on it and he revised the listing. It didn't say so when I looked the other day.


----------



## bandit571

Have a M-F No. 1455 with a decal across the back of the cap iron…..









With the OEM box, BTW…

















Here is a "Project" for the Machinist in this group…









Instead of saw BOLTS…two saws I now have use these…saw screws..









As in "bolts" on one side..








And nothing on the other…..Wheedle, Madden, & Clemson…of Middletown, NY?
Hand saw has it's original 3 screws….the keyhole saw is missing one of it's 2 screws…









It would be nice to complete the set…


----------



## HokieKen

Sure bandit. Although it will be hard to copy the threads exactly on my lathe, I can approximate the pitch/taper and make sure they're the same size. I'd need you to send me one to copy.


----------



## RWE

Bandit: do you think your Wheeler Madden and Clemson is also missing the side plate on the handle.

I picked up a saw many years ago that I thought was a WMC, but Bob Summerfield said it was just a knock-off imitation. Seems there were companies that imitated the style.

Get Kenny to make you the side plate as well. Seems to have the outline still visible.

I think they are beautiful saws.


----------



## bandit571

Not all Millers Falls No. 9s were created equal…









There was the V-Line….there was the Mohawk-Shelbourne….there was the No. 9, T-4, and the No. 9, Type2…..and then there was the No. 8…


----------



## DevinT

Do you have a favorite?


----------



## Lazyman

If he does, he would never admit it because it makes the other ones jealous.


----------



## bandit571

Yeah…right…









Case of open the doors, and take your pick…....I usually pick the sharpest of the bunch, and go from there…..sometimes it is Millers Falls, sometimes it is Stanley…..other times…Sargent will get the nod…


----------



## MikeB_UK

yeah, but which do you sharpen most often


----------



## drsurfrat

Hey hey hey! with Kenny's help, it might just become a plane yet.










- Make a scrub plane, it allows for a *whole lotta* slop and mistakes.


----------



## RWE

Nice looking scrub there. Good job. Very cool to look at. Looks to be be very ergonomic.


----------



## HokieKen

Looks like that turned out pretty darn good Mike!


----------



## ac0rn

Sharpened the most…









From left to right
Corsair #4- This one was my Uncle's
Sargent #3- This from my Dad
Stanley #4 1/2


----------



## tshiker

Yeah I don't doubt it Ken. I never, ever, trust decals any more! Almost every time a description doesn't specifically say it's original and I press the seller I find out it's new. And when I ask the sellers if they think not mentioning it's an after market decal is deceitful they either don't answer or just say no! There's a guy on ebay that sells lots of vintage Miller's Falls drills and braces for more then 3x the going rate and every one has a decal. In the ads he states that the tools are all original but never mentions the decals which are not!


----------



## Ocelot

As long as it is just a tool, a decal would be a nuisance to me… something to keep me from using the tool (don't want to mess up the decal). I might have one on a 4-square household jack, but I can't remember. It came sharp and ready to use is what I remember.


----------



## HokieKen

Here's a MF9 at a good price for a restoration candidate. It's type 3.


----------



## bandit571

happen to have a MF8 with a decal on the tote…...except….it says…Craftsman Tools…..


----------



## drsurfrat

This guy is almost there. I have to attach the knob and tote permanently w epoxy and screws, flatten the screws, and it will be a functional plane. Once I do that, I won't be a able to work the metal without scratching the wood. I hit the sharp edges with 320 paper, but I was hoping that someone might suggest what finishing touches I could put on the body before attaching the wood. I don't have a buffing wheel. I do have some steel blackening fluid (phosphorus/sulpher based). ... I'm not gonna engrave


----------



## DevinT

Did you start with square tubing? I definitely like it. That's some thick metal, ... 1/4"?

Could I suggest something "different?" What if you blued a pattern instead of bluing the entire thing?


----------



## donwilwol

That's pretty nice. I like the idea of blackening. What is the plan for the wood. Fume it ? Black on black?


----------



## corelz125

Print making comes to mind for the cheeks on it Mike, but easier said than done. Unless you know some one who has the set up.
For the next one tell Kenny to corrugate it.


----------



## drsurfrat

Thanks for the suggestions. (and a 'that's pretty nice" coming from the man who's handled a million planes quite a complement)

Yes, the square tube is the trick to not having to make a frog or put a rod in for the lever cap. The iron is 3/16" A2.
My blackening paste can be painted, so a pattern is a possibility.

The wood is maple, and I already gave it a coat of Danish oil. I think that makes it too late for the Johnny Cash outfit. What color does fumed maple turn into? The oak I tried turned grayish. I should've thought of aniline dyes, too.

It is a little bigger than the No 40, but the same width.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Pictures, from Yesterday's Shoptime..









Millers Falls No. 15 ( that be a Stanley No. 6 parked just ahead of it) flattening a panel ( or two)

Then drive the little guy around abit..









Millers Falls No. 9, to get things fairly smooth…


----------



## MikeB_UK

Finally got around to using the plough plane, the extra heft works as I'd hoped to let it glide through any tricky grain. Makes it really nice to use.


----------



## bandit571

Mr. G. Roseboom made this back about 1865? had to refurb it up a bit…









From down in Cincinnati, OH….









Bad part? No depth stop…..and no nicker….









Seems to work ok…just have to watch how deep it is cutting…









Makes a lot of these….


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Bad part? No depth stop…..and no nicker…
> 
> - bandit571


Depth stop is easy to add, but seems a shame to change a plane that's been working for more than 150 years 

Nickers are awkward to add to plough planes, you either need one for the width of each iron or two that can adjust sideways.
Been trying to think of a decent design for adjustable ones since I built that one, keep flipping between something a bit like a mortise gauge and 2 seperate offset ones.


----------



## drsurfrat

You could make 2 separate, but fix one of them and one side of the cutter to the same vertical plane. The other nicker could be on an adjustable post, driven in and out depending on the cutter width (like some wooden+brass depth stops, just horizontal instead).

It would take some pretty tight tolerances to make it work repeatably, though.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> You could make 2 separate, but fix one of them and one side of the cutter to the same vertical plane. The other nicker could be on an adjustable post, driven in and out depending on the cutter width (like some wooden+brass depth stops, just horizontal instead).
> 
> It would take some pretty tight tolerances to make it work repeatably, though.
> 
> - drsurfrat


I'm not a fan of tight tolerances if I can get away with it 

Simplest option I could think of was a couple of irons attached to the front of the plane, overlapped with some slots for a simple srew adjustment.

Of course this leaves two sharp pointy bits sticking out at the front of the plane inviting bloodshed.









I'm leaning toward the sideways depth stop type, it'll probably need a sliding dovetail or similar for stability so seems a bit overcomplicated for something that's never really caused me that much of an issue.


----------



## corelz125

A few interesting planes on this month's list. Not a bad price for the #444. The #15 was some eye candy for Kenny.


----------



## HokieKen

So it's eye candy for the Eye Candy?

My 15 is prettier anyway ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It seems market prices are down for #444 planes, right? Nice example he has listed.

No. 77 dowel cutter set, on the other hand…


----------



## HokieKen

The 289 he has is not a terrible price but way too high to tempt me. Though that is a plane I'd really like to have. The only other one that really tempted me this month is the Odd Job with the folding boxwood rule. But again, the price isn't outrageous but it's still too steep for me to seriously consider it.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Pictures, to start the day..









No. 181 Skewed Rebate plane…









Sitting behind it, is a Ward's Master Quality N0. 78


----------



## Mosquito

I tried to grab the #444, but was too slow (12 minutes after I got the list)


----------



## corelz125

The eBay prices for the #444 are up there. That's why his price was a bargain.


----------



## Ocelot

I thought you *had* a 444, Mos.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

That 444 is super cool. Not sure why I hadn't ever heard of it.

Might need to be on the lookout for one of those.


----------



## corelz125

Smitty is a enabler for the #444.


----------



## HokieKen

> Smitty is a enabler for the #444.
> 
> - corelz125


Not unless he gives me his credit card information…


----------



## Mosquito

> I thought you *had* a 444, Mos.
> 
> - Ocelot


I might have a slightly incomplete one


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Pictures for today..









Ward's Master Quality No. 78 (stanley) had a bit of work to do…









Stanley No. 45, Type 4 (?) set up to do a dado…..seems the spurs might need a little work?


----------



## HokieKen

If anyone's interested, there's a Buck Rogers smoother on Ebay. It may or may not end up going for a good price but it started with no minimum bid so it's a good price as of now ;-)


----------



## corelz125

Thought you were gonna share that buck Rogers shiny new looking one with the box still Kenny?


----------



## HokieKen

If you're talking about mine, I don't have boxes for either one Corelz. Is there one on Ebay with the box that I somehow missed?


----------



## corelz125

Yea Kenny it looks like it came out of the factory yesterday. Has the original box but a price tag that's in outer space.


----------



## Johnny7

> Yea Kenny it looks like it came out of the factory yesterday. Has the original box but a price tag that s in outer space.
> 
> - corelz125


I see what you did there (Buck Rogers, outer space)

I assume you're talking about this item?

304084735388

Agreed price is high, but original boxes for these are seldom seen, in my experience.
And boxes are important to collectors.


----------



## Notw

ohhh Ken doesn't have a box


----------



## HokieKen

I haven't ever seen a Buck Rogers plane with original box either. Luckily for my wallet, I'm not a collector ;-)


----------



## rad457

> I haven t ever seen a Buck Rogers plane with original box either. Luckily for my wallet, I m not a collector ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Box's are over rated unless they are Dove tailed! I just check the shipping and move on, funny how the Buck Rogers shipping was $56, but a Bedrock 608 was only $39


----------



## corelz125

Caught that one huh Johnny. It definitely is a nice piece for a collection. It's a good thing nobody in here is a collector. We just have a lot of planes. That one was for Kevin.


----------



## theoldfart

absolutely!


----------



## HokieKen

Not a plane but crossed another line item off the Millers Falls wishlist


----------



## HokieKen

I went almost two months without buying any Ebay tools. Then the seller sent me an offer I couldn't refuse on that ^ bevel gauge Wednesday. And then this morning a 4-piece set of 1430 chisels pops up for $22 BIN. 









Could there be tool gods out there that reward restraint?

Funny thing is, Kev sent me a link to this NIP set the other day and I passed because I'm cheap as hell. The new ones would be nice but these will be users for me since I'm not a collector ;-)

So my Wishlist decreases by two lines this week and three lines in the past few weeks thanks to Kev's heads-up on the sharpening guides 

Oh wait! Four lines thanks to the miter guide I got from Kev a while back!

Still, the planes elude me. I need a #7 and a #209 still and haven't had any luck with finding either of those close to budget. I have decided that if I can score a Fulton 3708 (#2 size made by MF) for <$100 that I'll take it as a place holder for the #7. So if anyone stumbles on one of those, let me know!


----------



## bandit571

Just Picked a Dunlap 3D BB for a 10 spot, this morning…film at 11…

Also "picked" this morning….Ridgid cordless circular saw, with charger…$1


----------



## Notw




----------



## bandit571

Original price…$25…marked price..$15…MY price? $10









Hmmm…








3D BB?....even the top of the iron has a BB stamp…








View of the frog…and a small (the ONLY) defect..









And Kenny's favourite wheel?









And that $1 saw…









Yep..one dollar…


----------



## HokieKen

Great find on the BB plane Bandit


----------



## adot45

Way to go Bandit!

Had a little luck today at a flea market: This batch for $21 -A Record 9 1/2, Great Neck thumb plane, Little square marked in 8th's-unknown and another English plane, a Stanley 75 clone. Some extra pictures of it, maybe friends across the pond have an idea what it is.


----------



## MikeB_UK

It's a stanley 75 clone 

One for Kenny - Millers Falls made them over here in the early 70's


----------



## adot45

Thanks Mike, very nice to know that.


----------



## HokieKen

I didn't know MF ever made anything in England. Pretty cool, thanks for the info Mike. Though by the time production moved there, Millers Falls was already a poor reflection of what it had been and most of their focus was on economy rather than quality. I wonder what prompted the move to English production? I don't know of any other planes that were made over there so I have to assume they outsourced the manufacture of that plane to some other company as opposed to opening a production facility across the pond?

I'll have to dig through some history when I have time and see if I can figure out what that was all about…


----------



## MikeB_UK

They'd been bought out by a multinational by that point, best guess is they just had some manufacturing capacity in Sheffield and it was cheaper to make them there with cheap global shipping being a thing by then.


----------



## HokieKen

They were owned by Ingersoll-Rand at the time. I'm sure they had international production facilities in the 70s but they were heavily focused on industrial power tools. I didn't find any mention of England specifically but, the main plant in Millers Falls was closed in 1970 and some of the production was moved to Greenfield but woodworking and hand tool manufacture largely were eliminated or outsourced.

The situation had deteriorated to the point that it was deemed necessary to close the Ervingside plant in Millers Falls-home to most aspects of the company's electric tool production. The electric tool operation was relocated to the Wells Street plant in Greenfield, a move that *ended the manufacture of hand-powered tools at that location. A number of the company's hand-powered tools were dropped from the line; the production of others was outsourced; the production of still others was transferred to the Union Tool Company*, the manufacturer of precision tools and squares acquired by the Millers Falls Company in 1957.


----------



## rad457

Mine is U.S.A.  May of polished the iron a wee too much?


----------



## corelz125

There's a few in here that might possibly own one. Anyone ever try a Stanley #11 on wood?


----------



## DonBroussard

I have a No. 11, but I've never tried it on wood. Come to think of I've never used it on leather either.


----------



## corelz125

Is it tuned Dan?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I have tried it on wood. Was it awesome? No, not really.


----------



## DonBroussard

corelz - I haven't touched the No. 11 in a while (more than two years, at least).


----------



## drsurfrat

There are two number 11's in case you don't know. (Or i'm being captain obvious and missed the joke)

From Leach's site:


----------



## DevinT

What exactly is a "belt makers" plane? What kind of belt? How is it used?


----------



## corelz125

I never seen that bottom #11 before. I was talking about the top one. That yours on top Mike?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Tapered the cut ends of leather belts used to drive machinery, back in OldFart's day. Then the two ends could be more reliably joined / seamed and put back in service.


----------



## Johnny7

.


----------



## theoldfart

;-(

Really?

Harumph.

Actually, when I first started in the shop we had leather belts joined like that but we had a grinder with a tapered bed to do it.


----------



## DevinT

> Tapered the cut ends of leather belts used to drive machinery, back in OldFart's day. Then the two ends could be more reliably joined / seamed and put back in service.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


OK, that makes sense. Thanks for explaining it to me.


----------



## bandit571

$10 plane…









That Yard Sale Dunlap…well…look at me now..









Steel wheel? WW2 era? Handles have Brass ends…









Type 3?









With a BLACK frog? 
Still…all in the Family, I guess..









Millers Falls No. 8 in the middle…Craftsman has a Red Frog..


----------



## corelz125

Devin the #11 interests you now?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> ;-(
> 
> Really?
> 
> Harumph.
> 
> - theoldfart


Since when did we get all sensi? 

Figured it get a rise outta ya, lol.


----------



## HokieKen

My metal lathe, a 1936 South Bend still uses a leather belt to drive it


----------



## corelz125

Kenny sounds like you need a belt makers plane. I don't think MF made any though


----------



## drsurfrat

The outboard handles on the No 11 would be awkward on wood. Direct weight on the toe and heel seems better for control. (I know I'm not the first to notice) For a leather belt, maybe the lateral control was more important than the depth of cut. It seems like you'd need to be over/above it to get a good cut with that bed angle. -Like the No74 floor plane.








(from Hans Brunner Tools)


----------



## DevinT

> Devin the #11 interests you now?
> 
> - corelz125


No, not unless I can think of an alternate use than its originally designed purpose. I don't make belts and most of my motors are direct drive (no belts).


----------



## HokieKen

Nah, I butt joint and stitch mine.


----------



## corelz125

You sure I'll trade you an #11 for that #24 You have. MJD has an original bakelite 709 handle.


----------



## HokieKen

I found an original handle for my 714 and my 709 came with one.

You'll have to do a lot better than an 11 for my 24 ;-)


----------



## DevinT

Let's play "what would you give up your 24 for?"

How about an HNT Gordon A55 try plane?

How about a Teske plane?

A Lazarus jointer?

How about a Holtey jointer?


----------



## HokieKen

LOL. I dunno. 24s are not easy to come by at any price. All of those are worth more monetarily. But they're also all still in production. With the possible exception of the Teske, I guess only you can answer that ;-) So even though those planes are worth, 4 or 5 times what my 24 is worth, seeing it in the till with all its siblings is worth more to me


----------



## DevinT

I feel the same way about my Stanley No 8 Type 11


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, Kenny, Kenny!
A Karl Holtey joiner?

Are you daft man?

TAKE IT!

The previous rant does not reflect the opinion of LJ's management.
It does however represent those individuals with common sense.


----------



## corelz125

He'll pack that #24 up with a smile if you trade him a MF #7.


----------



## bandit571

And…it is a Type 1….


----------



## HokieKen

True Corelz. I would swap it for a #7.

False Bandit. It's a T2 ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Yes Kev, if presented with a Holtey in the flesh, I'm certain I'd trade. And with haste ;-) Probably the Lazarus too though I'm not as fond of his asthetics. No question I'd drop it for one of Konrad Sauer's though no one has offered one of them…


----------



## mochoa

Ya'll still talking about hand planes?

Just stopping by to say hello!


----------



## Mosquito

Hey Mauricio!

And I'd give up Kenny's 24 for a Sauer & Steiner K18


----------



## Notw

I would gladly give up Ken's 24 for Devin's #8


----------



## theoldfart

Hi Maur.


----------



## DevinT

> Yes Kev, if presented with a Holtey in the flesh, I'm certain I'd trade. And with haste ;-) Probably the Lazarus too though I'm not as fond of his asthetics. No question I'd drop it for one of Konrad Sauer's though no one has offered one of them…
> 
> - HokieKen


No adjusters on the Sauer & Steiners that I have seen. Meh.


----------



## DevinT

> I would gladly give up Ken s 24 for Devin s #8
> 
> - Notw


LOL!!


----------



## Ocelot

Well, I for sure would not trade my G0490X for anybody's 24 or even the Hotley, whatever that is.


----------



## bandit571

No worries here…have my Stanley No. 8, Type 7 safely locked away…


----------



## DevinT

> Well, I for sure would not trade my G0490X for anybody s 24 or even the Hotley, whatever that is.
> 
> - Ocelot


A "Holtey" is a metal hand plane made by one, Karl Holtey, with custom machined parts and astounding fit and finish. A Holtey plane makes a Bridge City Tool Works hand plane or Lie-Nielsen hand plane look like a piece of trash.

A1 Panel/Jointer Plane

The A1 is for "Adjuster, version 1" and the panel/jointer plane is a beautiful specimen of classic infill planes re-imagined using modern tooling and machining techniques.

A jointer plane from Karl Holtey will run you (/me checks ) ...

About £7000

Or

About $9,682.86

We'll just call it an even $10k.

Lazarus hand planes cost about the same, but most people agree that Holtey is the king of modern hand planes, though some may disagree or have their pet favorites they favor more - that being said almost everyone lusts after a Holtey.


----------



## HokieKen

> No adjusters on the Sauer & Steiners that I have seen. Meh.
> 
> - DevinT


He makes them both ways. To be honest though, I think the adjusters detract from the lines of the planes with his designs. I would probably opt for an adjusterless one if I was ordering.


----------



## DevinT

Cool! Thanks for sharing those


----------



## Mosquito

I'd agree with Kenny, no adjusters on my Sauer and Steiner's please.


----------



## HokieKen

> I d agree with Kenny, that way I know I'm right.
> 
> - Mosquito


Fixed it


----------



## corelz125

I'll still take a an early type MF 24 over one of those high end shiny new jointers. Like if i had a choice between a 32 3 window coupe or a 2021 Lamborghini Huracan I'll take the 32.


----------



## bandit571

Might prefer a T-bird…


----------



## HokieKen

> I ll still take a an early type MF 24 over one of those high end shiny new jointers. Like if i had a choice between a 32 3 window coupe or a 2021 Lamborghini Huracan I ll take the 32.
> 
> - corelz125


To be fair though, comparing a MF 24 to a Holtey is more like comparing a 2021 Huracan to a 75 Ford LTD ;-)


----------



## Peteybadboy

Bandit my parents had that Thunderbird. Same body color, Blue two tone seats, power windows, big honking V8.


----------



## Ocelot

> A "Holtey" is a metal hand plane made by one, Karl Holtey, with custom machined parts and astounding fit and finish. A Holtey plane makes a Bridge City Tool Works hand plane or Lie-Nielsen hand plane look like a piece of trash.
> 
> A1 Panel/Jointer Plane
> 
> The A1 is for "Adjuster, version 1" and the panel/jointer plane is a beautiful specimen of classic infill planes re-imagined using modern tooling and machining techniques.
> 
> A jointer plane from Karl Holtey will run you (/me checks ) ...
> 
> About £7000
> 
> Or
> 
> About $9,682.86
> 
> We'll just call it an even $10k.
> 
> Lazarus hand planes cost about the same, but most people agree that Holtey is the king of modern hand planes, though some may disagree or have their pet favorites they favor more - that being said almost everyone lusts after a Holtey.
> 
> - DevinT


For that price, you could have a G9953ZX 16 inch wide, 99 inch long, 5 HP jointer - and another couple of thousand for lumber. (Although they are backordered).

... or, I am told, a brand new power window switch for a 1965 Mercedes. (My motor-head guy tells me.)

-Paul


----------



## donwilwol

I've always wondered if that $9,682.86 really makes the wood smoother than my Sargent VBM? I only wish I had one for the sake of selling it for $8k, still being happy with my Sargent. But it sure would be nice to be able to afford it just to post pictures of it here and make you guys jealous like Smitty does!


----------



## corelz125

Well said Don. Gotta go from point A to point B. 
I don't know Kenny I woukd expect a better comparison coming from you on MF. You just put that one step up from a Pinto.


----------



## Mosquito

Sorry, I forgot that part two changed this thread to "Handplanes of your practical minded conscious thoughts"


----------



## corelz125

I'll take a K8 also Mos.


----------



## DevinT

I keep telling myself that my reward for finishing the Nursery (used to be my old office and had peach colored walls; now is a very smart looking nursery for a baby boy) is going to be my purchase of the Bad Axe kerfing plane. The promise of that reward keeps me going.

Finished painting yesterday and have almost finished shampooing the carpets.

In reality (that is, not so much in my dreams), I know that I will probably catch a lot of flack for the purchase, but the nursery is my secret weapon. "Yeah, I spent $150 on a tool; but the nursery!" which will be followed up in 6 weeks with "Yeah, I spent $350 on the same tool and the $150 was really a down payment; BUT THE NURSERY!"

Hmmm. How am I going to swing this one. Tool is $425 (I'm guessing there is tax too) with a $150 down payment.


----------



## corelz125

Apply the credit card rewards to it Devin. That way it doesn't seem to hurt that much.


----------



## DevinT

Hmmm. I wonder how many rewards I have now. Probably a few thousand. I never check. Never used rewards before, despite knowing I have them. That's not a bad idea. I'm going to start checking to see if I have any.


----------



## DevinT

> A "Holtey" is a metal hand plane made by one, Karl Holtey, with custom machined parts and astounding fit and finish. A Holtey plane makes a Bridge City Tool Works hand plane or Lie-Nielsen hand plane look like a piece of trash.
> 
> A1 Panel/Jointer Plane
> 
> The A1 is for "Adjuster, version 1" and the panel/jointer plane is a beautiful specimen of classic infill planes re-imagined using modern tooling and machining techniques.
> 
> A jointer plane from Karl Holtey will run you (/me checks ) ...
> 
> About £7000
> 
> Or
> 
> About $9,682.86
> 
> We'll just call it an even $10k.
> 
> Lazarus hand planes cost about the same, but most people agree that Holtey is the king of modern hand planes, though some may disagree or have their pet favorites they favor more - that being said almost everyone lusts after a Holtey.
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> For that price, you could have a G9953ZX 16 inch wide, 99 inch long, 5 HP jointer - and another couple of thousand for lumber. (Although they are backordered).
> 
> ... or, I am told, a brand new power window switch for a 1965 Mercedes. (My motor-head guy tells me.)
> 
> -Paul
> 
> - Ocelot


But you can't put a G9953ZX 16 inch wide, 99 inch long, 5 HP jointer in a till. I've approximately 48 square feet of shop space, but I still have to accomplish basic tasks like flattening a board, and I've no room for a 99 inch long 16 inch wide jointer, but I would have space for an 18-24 inch long 3 inch wide hand plane. Primarily because the jointer is several feet tall and the hand plane is only a few inches tall. Let alone the weights.

Similar reason why I am going to buy a Roubo frame saw instead of a band saw. I still need to be able to perform a resaw efficiently but I don't have the room for a band saw, or table saw, or pretty much any table based machine, though I am plotting and scheming how I can fit a mini metal lathe into my shop.


----------



## HokieKen

Some new family members arrived today.


----------



## HokieKen

Buck Rogers smoother went for $102 on the bay last night. Somebody got a great deal on that one.


----------



## TedT2

Off to an auction this morning….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice. Jealous I am.


----------



## HokieKen

Holy crap! Look at all those MFs in their boxes!

If you can score a #7 for under $250, I'll make it worth your while Ted. Any Millers Falls #7 (Stanley #2 size) regardless of type or condition as long as it's complete and unbroken


----------



## corelz125

Looks like that auction will get some good money.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Hmm, this is going to require more work to refurb than I usually bother with.
Someone recommended cider vinegar for rust removal?


----------



## RWE

I have used several products but settled on Evaporust. it is available on Amazon.

The acid based products that I had used made clean up a real mess. I used citrix acid (grocery store item used for canning), a toilet cleaner (forget the brand name), vinegar etc. All of those were very messy so I settled on Evaporust despite it being a bit pricy. You can use it over and over until it no longer works, so figure on a second container to hold your "used" Evaporust. Buy the gallon.


----------



## Notw

i don't like chemicals so i use electrolysis


----------



## DevinT

I don't use any chemicals or electricity. I just use a maroon scotchbrite pad.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> i don t like chemicals so i use electrolysis
> 
> - Notw


I don't class it as a chemical if you can put it on food, you've got to draw the line somewhere


----------



## DevinT

You can put Evaporust on food?


----------



## RWE

Before I began with Evaporust (which I put my hands in all the time, may be right, may be wrong in doing so) I used this product that I got at Lowes

The Works

https://www.lowes.com/pd/The-Works-32-fl-oz-Toilet-Bowl-Cleaner/3697678

Dirt cheap and works well but was messy. I believe I read about it on a Chris Schwartz blog or somewhere like that. Used it for a few years. Pour it down the toilet bowl after you use it.

If you don't plan to do many planes, I would use it. Easy to use, easy to dispose of and works very well.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> You can put Evaporust on food?
> 
> - DevinT


Cider vinegar.

You can put evaporust on food, but I don't think it's food afterwards


----------



## HokieKen

I use phosphoric acid based products if the rust runs really deep. The process converts iron oxide to iron phosphate which is corrosion resistant. It also changes the color of the metal significantly though. These days I try to get by with just wire brushing or sand blasting. I only use the acid if there is severe pitting and I want to be sure to nip it in the bud.

I've never tried it on food. It's environmentally friendly though. Your lawn actually likes it ;-)


----------



## DevinT

Speaking of phosphoric acid based products …

COCA-COLA!

I'm dead serious, by the way. You can literally just soak your plane in Coca-Cola or Dr. Pepper or what have you.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Ah yes, I remember coca-cola cleaning up coins, great for dirt, didn't know it worked on rust - but a cheap thing to try at least.


----------



## rad457

> Speaking of phosphoric acid based products …
> 
> COCA-COLA!
> 
> I m dead serious, by the way. You can literally just soak your plane in Coca-Cola or Dr. Pepper or what have you.
> 
> - DevinT


JUST DON"T go Wasting any Mountain Dew Need that for my Bourbon!


----------



## donwilwol

Most guys use acid until they ruin their first tool, then they start to listen to those of us who already ruined our first tool.

They use Evaporust until they figure out you can tell a tool that's been used on a tool a mile away (unless you do as much manual work as you would have for the rust)

There is no good reason to use acid, Evaporust or electrolysis on a hand plane.

But, your tool, your process.


----------



## Ocelot

I once tried citric acid on an old pair of sicsors that I was going to throw away. It worked very well. I was surpised. I was never good at chemistry and it seems odd to me that acid would remove rust, but there you are.


----------



## Ocelot

sizzers, whatever.


----------



## HokieKen

Over the years, I've come to agree with Don Yoda. I've never ruined a tool with acid but I can tell an obvious visual difference when chemicals are used vs wire brushing or sand blasting. Both of those methods will alter the look of the surface of the tool but you can sand/polish it back out. The chemicals will get down into nooks and crannies and even if you sand the conversion coating off the surface, you will have dark spots that are too deep to sand out.

On the other hand, Phosphoric acid is a good way to add "instant patina" to cast iron.

I tend towards manual removal these days. But, if something is really rusty, I don't take issue with soaking it either. I'm also a little more selective in the tools I buy these days. If it looks like it's going to be a major undertaking to recondition it, I tend to pass and spend a little more money on one in better shape to save the time and elbow grease later.

As Don said: your tool, your process.


----------



## RWE

I have stopped using chemicals a good bit as well. I do saw plates, planes (particularly the sides and soles) with my Porter Cable Restorer and the Scotchbrite type wheel. I used to use Scotchbrite (Harbor Freight) sanding balls on my drill press. The Restorer is essentially a mini drum sander that is the size of a small angle grinder, if you are not familiar with it.

It has the advantage of being a hand tool that you can control very well and you take it to the tool and not the tool to it (like with the drill press).

If I have a frog or other parts that need derusting, then I use the Evaporust and clean the part up and paint. The main body of the plane and saw come clean and shiny with the Restorer. Plus, it is fast and effective.


----------



## corelz125

Andre mountain dew is coming out with an alcoholic drink soon. So now can either skip the bourbon or use less. 
Almost as many opinions on rust removal as sharpening. Harbor freight sells evaporust and you used to be able to use the 20% off coupon on it. I use evaporust when parts are frozen. I'll give it a soak see if things loosen up.


----------



## Notw

One caveat of using electrolysis which can be seen as a pro or a con is on almost every part I have done with electrolysis it has either removed or loosened the japanning. I see this as a pro because I would prefer to repaint or remove all the paint if the japanning is not in good shape. I have done a couple of planes where 95% of the japanning was good so I manually removed rust instead of using electrolysis.


----------



## MikeB_UK

OK, so, assuming I've understood everyone right (fairly low chance)
To sum up

Easy but iffy
Weak acid - may ruin plane
Evaporust - easy to tell it's been used
Electrolysis - will probably destroy japanning

Hard but good
Wire brush wheel
Sandblast

Easy but good
Send to someone who knows what they are doing

Err, Canadian?
Mountain dew and bourbon for daily RDI iron intake
Bourbon?

So, given I don't have anything to sandblast it with, hand brushing with a wire brush seems hard work and I only care about function instead of looks I'm left with the relatively easy stuff.

It doesn't have any japanning, but given my very limited knowledge of electricity is "don't mix it with water" means I'll skip electrolysis.

Given it was bought on the cheap, mostly to see if there were any differences to the frog and to have a play with a wood body plane with a metal body adjuster, pretty much leaves by exeption
Coke
Weak Acid
Evaporust

Hell, I'm tempted to go with Coke just to see how well it works 
If that doesn't wotk I reckon whatever vinegar I have lying around. (Sorry Don)
Then evaporust type stuff - costs more than I paid for the plane so the experiment will probably die at this point


----------



## bandit571

Gave someone a workout, today..









Plus…









and…









Was a busy day….Resaw for the drawer's back?









Tablesaw to act as the Kerf Plane…then this big guy took over..









Disston D( no hyphen) 8…28" long, 5-1/2ppi….


----------



## r33tc0w

> Before I began with Evaporust (which I put my hands in all the time, may be right, may be wrong in doing so) I used this product that I got at Lowes
> 
> The Works
> 
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/The-Works-32-fl-oz-Toilet-Bowl-Cleaner/3697678
> 
> Dirt cheap and works well but was messy. I believe I read about it on a Chris Schwartz blog or somewhere like that. Used it for a few years. Pour it down the toilet bowl after you use it.
> 
> If you don t plan to do many planes, I would use it. Easy to use, easy to dispose of and works very well.
> 
> - RWE


Whatever you do with this stuff, don't put it in a plastic bottle with aluminum foil.. just my HS days saying…


----------



## Lazyman

One pro for Evaporust over mechanical removal is on plated planes. Wire wheels and other abrasives are likely to remove the plating but the evaporator doesn't, if you want to save it. It worked great on my crusty old 46. Probably half the plating was gone but since it wasn't rusty where it was still in place, I figured I'd let it keep protecting as much as it could.


----------



## HokieKen

Phosphoric acid won't remove plating or japanning either UNLESS there is rust under it. Then the acid will creep and break the bond.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Speaking of rusty plane revival, got me some free wood chips with latest rust covered fleabay acquisition.









While wood is valuable these days, the chips have a rusty metal smell, afraid they won't taste good in smoker? LOL

Used some glass beads in sand blast cabient to knock off most of rust, trying to determine amount of pitting, and next step:









Which leads me to my thoughts on rust removal processes:

Every rust removal process has pro/con, and some are 'better' than others, Definition of better depending on part and condition. 
Plus as already noted: each one also leaves behind a signature when used. Challenge with mechanical abrasion to remove rust and metal is loss of metal. For critical fit parts, you often want the smallest metal loss possible.

IME - Evaporust conversion leaves more metal behind, then most other removal methods (tied with electrolysis). It works well on bolts, screws as they loose less diameter; and end up looking like a worn black oxide finish. If you want shiny bolt heads, polish the head; but leave the threads alone or they can get loose inside the bore and prone to vibration loosening. 
That said, Evaporust is not for every rust removal job.

Evaporust uses chelation to convert unstable, constantly growing red oxide into stable black oxide that rarely grows deeper. But the process leaves behind a dark grey 'stain' or color on metal. Using evaporust on cold rolled steel with fine polish, leaves an grey aged patina (almost like mill scale on hot rolled steel); which makes the part look dirty. Most want this extra metal oxide removed.

I tend to reserve Evaporust for cast iron parts. Cast iron has pores filled with carbon. This carbon absorbs water and becomes a nucleus for rust growth. Evaporust gets into the pores, converts red to black; which tends leave pores looking natural, after I polish off the gray 'stain' to make cast iron look shiny. Hence, using Evaporust helps to slow new rust formation in pores. 
For painted parts, I leave the Evaporust black oxide alone as it provides good paint adhesion. All rusty metal primer paints have an acid in them to do same red to black oxide conversion. Clean metal primer even has some of same acid as it improves paint adhesion to oxides. 

Media blasting is a good tool as you can adjust the process for desired amount of metal. 
Metal oxides (black oxide. coal slag, or garnet) leave a deep pebbled surface, with dark grey tone; and can bore a hole through sheet metal. Glass beads remove less metal, leave a finer grain, almost satin finish (like shown above). Calcium carbonate or walnut shells leave more polished, but still satin finish. Once you have used these processes, you usually tell when final surface treatment was media blasting, by the near perfect random satin surface finish.

As mentioned above by our resident plane expert; most rust removal methods require a secondary operation to return the part to original condition. Often the mechanical oxide removal, or 'make it shiny' polishing is same amount of work as if you didn't use any rust conversion process. 
I agree, with two exceptions. 
Using a rust conversion/reversal process, before using mechanical abrasion can:
- Result in less metal removal as rust is removed.
- Allow use of finer grits during secondary mechanical polish steps.

Example: Can often use a fine wire brass wheel or a buffing wheel to polish up metal after Evaporust, where you need a coarse steel wire wheel to remove rust, leaving deep scratches behind.

Thanks for reading my babble.

Best luck cleaning up your old rusty tools!


----------



## MikeB_UK

Remember not to drink it after


----------



## donwilwol

I think part of the misconception is leaving some rust is a bad thing. Kenny made a point about making patina. Metal restorers intentional rust items to get the patina.

I'm not suggesting we intentionally rust hand planes, but pointing out that rust left in remote places in a well maintained tools doesn't hurt and actually helps prevent further rust.

Evaporust does the same, but is an extra step and leave that ugly grey finish that is almost impossible to completely get rid of.

You can test this. Take a rusty plane and do nothing but oil it daily and use it. Over time the rust either goes away or turns to patina. If the rust is heavy it will take time, but it will happen. A reasonably rusty tool will happen in a pretty reasonable time.


----------



## HokieKen

Agreed Don. In fact, that's basically what a conversion agent does. It turns iron oxide into some other form of oxide. But the "new" oxide is stable and less ugly (aka patina). But it's still oxide.

As Don points out, the bad part about conversion is that it not only turns rust to patina, but also discolors the un-rusted areas.

CK, good points and thanks for chiming in. I never thought about conversion removing less material but it's a good point. It should also be added that chemicals will interact differently with different materials. I've never had a problem with cast iron or steel in phosphoric acid. But, I dunked a pot metal gear off an eggbeater drill once and it came out with a much sloppier fit on the shaft.

FWIW, I do also do localized conversion treatments on occasion. There used to be a product called Naval Jelly (not sure if it's still sold or not) that was a thickened form of phosphoric acid for targeted application. I never cared for it. It was too thick to spread evenly but too thin to keep in a small area. I just use a medicine dropper and apply the liquid form to areas like the deep pitted spots on CaptainKlutz's blade and chipbreaker. Just a drop or two in the pitted areas left to soak for a few hours will put a halt to the corrosion without discoloring the entire piece and requiring me to polish it out later.

Final thought which CK's chipbreaker reminded me of. If you have pitting on the end of a blade, a conversion soak can make it worse. And by worse, I usually mean better. It will show you how deep the pitting goes rather than you having to grind away on a stone only to discover you have a big chunk missing in your cutting edge because there was pitting there you didn't see. Here is an iron that I probably would have just polished up and sharpened until after I did a soak and saw how bad it really was:


----------



## TedT2

> Holy crap! Look at all those MFs in their boxes!
> 
> If you can score a #7 for under $250, I ll make it worth your while Ted. Any Millers Falls #7 (Stanley #2 size) regardless of type or condition as long as it s complete and unbroken
> 
> - HokieKen


We didn't have a #7 yesterday. The smallest was an #11. I will definitely keep a look out and see what I can find. We did have a type 11 Stanley no. 2 that sold for $200….


----------



## RWE

Good information about de-rusting.

I feel good about my techniques after reading all the input.

I recently added a wire wheel to my arsenal, so I have not put that into play much so far.

With a rusty plane this is my technique.

1. Sides and sole use the Restorer. This is essentially the same as sanding, just uses a Scotchbrite type drum.









2. If the plane's jappaned body needs to be redone, I have concocted a sandblasting cabinet. Otherwise, I leave a plane as is if it has minor defects in the jappaned parts. I tape the sides and sole before blasting the inside of the body.

3. Rusty frogs, irons, other parts, go in Evaporust and then I would polish the metal with the Scotchbrite ball on drill press. (I have had some luck using the Restorer on chip breakers and irons, just hard to secure/hold, have to be careful) I may use the "new to me" wire wheel to clean the frog a bit. I also have a new rechargeable Dremel that I use to polish small parts after Evaporust, little wire wheel.

So this seems to be a minimally invasive approach that does not remove much metal. I would guess 60 to 75 percent of my planes have just been cleaned and the sides worked on. Only the real rusty ones get the above treatment.

I saw Don mention oil. I see Paul Sellers with his oil in a can method. I have made the Sellers oil in can thing.

However, I started using this:










*So what is best for anti-corrosion protection after you have a plane finished???? 3 in 1 in the can a la Paul Sellers or a product like CRC. Inquiring minds want to know!!!*


----------



## HokieKen

CRC 3-36 is what I use RWE. I see no problem with 3 in 1 either. I just like having it in a spray bottle (not the aerosol that you have) and being able to mist it on a towel to wipe small tools or spray it over my whole table saw table. It's just easier than oil IMO and it works very well for me down here in the humid south.


----------



## bandit571

Hmm..before….









Note the base casting? and the "after" 









Brush has been loaded up with 3in1 oil, is all Non-Japanned surfaces get a brass wire wheel…









So that things are clean..


















The wood even gets a light sanding, then the oily brush…the sole gets a ride on the beltsander, LIGHTLY pressing down..









YMMV


----------



## HokieKen

That's one fine Dunlap Bandit. Best ones Dunlap ever sold ;-)



> We didn't have a #7 yesterday. The smallest was an #11. I will definitely keep a look out and see what I can find. We did have a type 11 Stanley no. 2 that sold for $200….
> 
> - TedT2


I'd be extremely grateful for a heads-up any time you do have a line on a Millers Falls #7 Ted!


----------



## MikeB_UK

I'm calling the 6 hours coke bath a success.
The obvious rust is gone and everything moves as it should again.

Sharpen and polish and I should be good to go when I've stripped and oiled up the body.


----------



## HokieKen

Looks like it worked a trick Mike. You should rinse the parts in cold water and dry them completely to make sure the acid is fully removed.


----------



## hiljac

BEAUTIFUL work Steve!
Dunlop of your dreams.



> Hmm..before….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So that things are clean..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YMMV
> 
> - bandit571


----------



## CaptainKlutz

For sake of full disclosure: 
Much of my rust removal experience is restoring machinery, and not piles of hand planes.

Am a hand plane USER, and not a collector. Seldom buy a rust bucket plane, unless it's < $5-10 or fills a empty slot in my plane drawer. While I like nice shiny planes, do not fuss over user tools to create a show room finish. I primary remove rust to prevent the rust transfer to the wood, when it might interfere with tool performance, or create a bigger problem when ignored (pitting). Shiny plane lovers might shed a tear after detailed inspection of my plane drawers. :-(0)

Hence;

+1 *Don* comments = not needing to remove every spec of iron oxide. 
Only your OCD needs all iron oxide to disappear. 
And yes, 100% true: Evaporust patina left behind can be biatch to remove on some alloy steel. Sometimes harder to remove than rust itself, thanks the fantastic adhesion of black iron oxide.

+1 *Bandit* method = light touch restoration works well.
Most of my used plane purchases, needed only light cleaning, some oil, adjustments to chip breaker, and sharp blade. I use brass wheel, oil and emery cloth, and/or cotton buffer wheel (with medium rouge) to clean up tools to a usable condition. Most of my user planes are missing some japanning and I don't care. To protect the cast iron; apply some 3in1 oil, add some mild heat with propane torch, oxidizing the oil to brown film; and will be long time before have rust problem on the exposed cast iron.

+1 CRC 3-36 
Use it on alloy steel parts that don't see a lot of handling, or cast iron heading into storage. CRC3-36 is a unique mix of paraffin, petroleum solvents, and stearate (fatty acid). The stearate to metal reaction creates protection sort of like a red to black oxide conversion, but it is not permanent chemical change. Once the stearate is removed, and the unprotected iron can bond with oxygen again, and parts will rust. CRC 3-26 leaves a slightly tacky or waxy surface, if not polished after application. In my dry AZ climate; see no difference between plain Carnauba wax and CRC 3-36 after it is polished up. So I save my $$, and use a tub of H.F. Staples Bowling Alley Wax on most working metal surfaces.

Ken reminded me of an old saying: 
*When all you have is hammer in the tool box, everything looks like a nail. *
It's true:
Restoring metal tools requires many different methods and materials. So experiment with different methods, and find what works for your tools in your shop. Sometimes all you need is a little Simichrome or Blue Magic metal polish with some elbow grease to clean up a tool. When you have basket case like this beauty; 









you will need every tool in your arsenal.

Will admit that since I added media blast cabinet to my shop, have different approach to rust removal than I had previously. My first decision is always: How bad is the rust? 
Do I need total strip down, or will some buffing do the job? 
If it looks questionable, I tend to use the fastest 'hammer' in shop. Either will dust off surface rust with glass beads, or use brass wire wheel to get look underneath. Both are relatively gentle when used properly.
But When all you have in shop is course steel wire wheel or Evaporust; you can do more damage then needed, which takes twice as long to fix. 
So while several of us suggest: Evaporust, Coke, Naval Jelly, or media blasting for rust removal; they are not always needed to get job done. Right *Bandit?* (wink wink, nod) 

Cheers!


----------



## bandit571

I just MIGHT have a little more practice, than most…i prefer the K.I.S.S. way….Keep It Simple system…


----------



## donwilwol

For oil, I use fluid film. Probably the same as CRC or at least in the same family of products. I really don't think it matters a big deal what you use. I'm sure old crankcase oil would work just fine. It's just a barrier to moisture, as long as it's up to that task, it'll work.


----------



## corelz125

Don the Sargent Shaw's patent planes. How do they perform?


----------



## ac0rn

I too am a user, not a collector. However I do enjoy the efforts of the restorer's. Just as it is nice to admire, and appreciate the restored cars, and boats, all done with diligent and dedicated efforts put in to them (they cannot take a spot on our mantle, nor bookcase) An old fly reel, or pristine restored hand plane certainly can. I already have the reel, sometime later there will be a plane. The restored planes are nice eye candy.
Currently we are 12 months into a house restoration with another 16 months to go. Then there will be a mantle and time for such things.


----------



## drsurfrat

> ... Then there will be a mantle and time for such things.
> - Jeff


That sounds poetically idyllic.


----------



## MikeB_UK

OK, so it works.

I really don't like it.

- The rear tote is too far away from the iron, my forefinger won't reach to rest on the iron (and I have big hands).

- The front is just weird, it's uncomfy and seems designed to make your hand slide off if you put any forward pressure at all.

- The adjuster is hard to adjust because the sidewalls are in the way for your off-hand and it's too far from the tote to use your forefinger easily.

This is not going to see much, if any, use


----------



## bandit571

Look up on top of the til….that be a 22" long jointer plane…works the same as a Stanley No. 7…


----------



## Lazyman

I think the Marples wood planes like that came as a kit so IMO it would not hurt the value of it to customize it to make it a better user.


----------



## Lazyman

> For oil, I use fluid film. Probably the same as CRC or at least in the same family of products. I really don t think it matters a big deal what you use. I m sure old crankcase oil would work just fine. It s just a barrier to moisture, as long as it s up to that task, it ll work.
> 
> - Don W


I have never heard of Fluid Film before. I like the idea of a lanolin based product over the other oil based rust preventers on tools I'll handle frequently. I'll have to give it a try.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> I think the Marples wood planes like that came as a kit so IMO it would not hurt the value of it to customize it to make it a better user.
> 
> - Lazyman


It doesn't have enough value to hurt 

Given I don't like the handle position, the sides or the front, customising it would be building a new plane.


----------



## HokieKen

I have used Fluid Film before too and it does work well as a rust preventative and it never caused any issues with transferring to wood and affecting finish either. It always felt thicker and tackier to me than CRC though but not as bad as Boeshield. The price is about the same if you buy them by the gallon. It looks like FF is supposed to be sprayed with compressed air though. I wonder if it can be effectively sprayed from a bottle? I bought the aerosol when I had it.

The main reasons I settled on CRC was because it is affordable and convenient to buy it by the gallon and transfer to a spray bottle. (I'd say I'm 3 years in with my first gallon and have plenty left.) It's simple to apply. I just spray it on when I'm done with a tool and leave it. Then wipe it off with a paper towel or rag before I use the tool. But, even if I forget to wipe it down, it's never caused me any grief with transferring to wood.


----------



## Lazyman

Man. A gallon of anything like that would last me a couple lifetimes and I am planning to live forever.

I've got some CRC and like it okay. It sort of smells like wintergreen to me which I find annoying for some reason. I do not like Boeshield. I tried it on my bandsaw table and it was like pouring melted wax over it. Probably better for storing things long term when you don't want to coat it in grease.


----------



## HokieKen

I spray it on everything Nathan. It gets humid here and my shop is insulated but un-conditioned. So I spray it on every tool I use just out of habit. I also have a lot of steel bar and plate stock sitting in a pile. I keep that coated too to keep the rust at bay. Even so though, I have no doubt that a $30 gallon of CRC will go at least a decade for me.


----------



## Lazyman

Humidity can get pretty high here too but luckily I've never had much problem with rust. Even when I took about a 15 year hiatus from woodworking (damn work and kids), my table saw top stayed rust free except where "someone" set a cold can on it (wasn't even a beer) and forgot about it. I usually just use paste wax to protect my tools and I guess it was pretty effective even though I never recoated the top during that long break.


----------



## donwilwol

> Don the Sargent Shaw s patent planes. How do they perform?
> 
> - corelz125


They're kinda a breed of their own. They work very well if you like a heavy plane. The base is thick enough that the blade must sit on the back of the month or it's far enough away that you may get chatter. That said, once set that chuck of cast makes it pretty solid. As with most Sargent planes of that era, the machining was pretty good. Better than most actually.

I would have no problem using one daily, but I still prefer a nice VBM 400 series.


----------



## corelz125

I see a Shaw's #24 listed now. Not many of them come around. It's the same price range as a #608. So it sounds like it's just as good as a bedrock


----------



## donwilwol

> I see a Shaw s #24 listed now. Not many of them come around. It s the same price range as a #608. So it sounds like it s just as good as a bedrock
> 
> - corelz125


That looks like a pretty good deal.


----------



## bandit571

In use today..









WR #62 and the M-F #9….


















Stanley #45,T-20…Groovy…or








A maker of Pho Noodles?










Stanley #45, T-4…still trying to do dados…









This came out last night….for a rare Photo Op….


----------



## corelz125

Kenny that rusty Buck Rogers price sky rocketed. A MF 07 went for half of it.


----------



## HokieKen

Still wasn't a bad price for that Buck Rogers. It had some rust but it was complete and original.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Random Plane pic - poor tired 5-1/2 taking a break…


----------



## bandit571

Leveling the playing field?









Corner had a high spot in it…HAD…

Have a KK 4c sitting here on the desk…debate is in WHEN Ohio Tool Co. was making them for Keen Kutter…


----------



## bandit571

THIS KK 4..









A "c" model..


















Keen Kutter logo on the non-tapered iron..









Froggy went a-courtin…









A wheel of Brass, and a toe bolt…on a #4 sized plane..









Tip of the horn was worn down a bit…maybe from use? Apparently made before Frog adjusters was a "thing"

Ohio Tool Co. made for Keen Kutter brand of E.C. Simmons….


----------



## bandit571

Looking like I dig out the Scrub Jack tomorrow….then maybe the #6 to smooth a panel out…BEFORE I can do any cutting…









need to square the ends, too…MIGHT be fun…Film if and when I get around to it….


----------



## DevinT

Look what just landed on eBay

Think it will sell for the asking price of $20k?


----------



## Ocelot

For 20K, they could have wiped the fingerprints off and worn white gloves to handle it.


----------



## DevinT

Right? Rubes! Found this plane at an estate and probably shat themselves so badly when the estimate came in that they couldn't wipe down the plane without making it worse? I mean only someone that knows nothing about (1) selling, (2) buying, (3) marketing, (4) hand planes, and (5) eBay would put up a Karl Holtey festooned with smudges. For $20k, I want to know that few people have touched it. All those smudges in my opinion make it worth about $5k. There is a reason coin sellers put mint condition coins in hermetically sealed cases. The moment a finger touches it, you lose mint status. So right off the bat we know this plane is far from MINT status given the number of times it was handled by Lord-knows how many people.


----------



## HokieKen

$20k and they're still too cheap to include shipping.


----------



## bandit571

Can just imagine the "Seller's Fee", when FeeBay figures up the bill….


----------



## DevinT

Oh gee whiz, the seller has not one, but TWO to sell.

Smaller Holtey plane up for auction


----------



## controlfreak

For that kind of money it will be cheaper for me to pay someone to plane my boards


----------



## HokieKen

I know Holtey only works on commissions so there are no posted prices on his site. But, it seems like I recall that his planes are generally in the $5-10k range depending on size, materials etc. Does anyone know if that's the right ballpark? Just trying to get a handle on whether $20k is actually reasonable or if it's as ridiculous as it feels.

And for the record, I'm not suggesting Karl's prices are unfair, just questioning the Ebay seller's. There is an incredible amount of engineering and artistry that went into his designs and the machining is not by any means something the average joe with a benchtop mill and lathe in his garage can accomplish. He has invested heavily in the tools to build his tools. And while his designs aren't my favorite, I'm a huge fan of his designs, methods and end product.

But, when you get right down to it, you're buying art from Karl. Regardless of how well made his planes are, let's be honest, there is nothing there that you don't get from other planes in terms of accomplishing the task at hand. You're buying a Holtey instead of a LN or Veritas because it is a Holtey and because it's being made for you, to your specs. And ultimately, IMHO, you're buying it for the same reason you might buy a Dahli or a Picasso. Because looking at it (and in the case of a Holtey, touching it and maybe even using it) makes you feel something that you don't feel when you use a Veritas. Even if the finished surface ends up just as good and just as efficiently.

On the other hand, I have a till full of old Millers Falls planes. Why? Because I like them. I like the three point lever cap. I like the filled in recess behind the embossed name on the lever cap. I like the red frogs, the adjuster nut design, the Cocobolo handles and the cast ribs that prevent the knob from turning. And I like sprucing them up so they look nice. But, when you add in all the time I've spent on said "sprucing", I could probably have a till full of LN and Veritas if I value my time at a reasonable rate. And even if we stick with the vintage tools, Stanleys are just as good and more readily available and often at cheaper prices. Especially if I stuck with the same era as my MF planes which is 30s and 40s.

So why do some people spend such an extravagant amount on a Holtey? Why do I spend hours restoring and lapping old planes when that time could be spent working wood with a new Veritas instead? Not to mention the, frankly embarrasing, amount of time I've spent on Ebay over the years tracking down all of the ones I have. And the time I spend now trying to track down the last straggler or two?

Like I said, I think it's the same reason people appreciate a painting or a song or a sculpture. It makes you feel something unique. Something that's worth the investment it requires of you be that time or money.

What say you?


----------



## drsurfrat

yep


----------



## corelz125

If I have an extra $20k I'll put it towards my mortgage


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Very well said Kenny.

Iirc I think he averaged around $10k so I think you're in the ballpark.


----------



## 33706

...And yet I had multiple different bidders try to grind me down on my bottom-end listings for crappy planes, all telling me that $10 US and $8 US was too high, and I should accept a bid of $12 US, and please knock off a few bucks further beyond combined shipping. In one particular instance, this for a listing of an Este #4 and Dunlap #4, both sharp, functioning planes. There are people who swim in the shallow end of the Ebay pool, presumably sorting their search by lowest price first, and beating up sellers for an even lower final price.

All to say, in my Ebay experiences, that my items that I offered at a ridiculous price sold easily, with no haranguing by the bidders. There seems to be a mutual respect for buyers and sellers of high-ticket items. My budget-priced items attracted chiselers and tightwads that were never going to bid without giving me some grief. A lot of my lesser quality tools ended up in the hands of grateful local civic groups or H4H donations just to spare me the endless hassles.


----------



## Notw

I like restoring as opposed to buying new because of the satisfaction I get once I've taken a piece of history from at least 80 years ago and restored it to a like new or newish condition. It's taking a piece of history that was destined to be thrown out in the disposable society and bringing it back hopefully for another 80 years at life.


----------



## Ocelot

Ken, I think you are too gererous in saying people buy them for how it makes them feel…

... unless you include the possibility that it makes them feel superior.

Snob appeal, in short.


----------



## DevinT

Hand plane with a clear handle

Looks uncomfortable as Hell, but looks cool (ish).

Would be cooler if the knob was also clear and if the tote was more rounded like a Stanley. I might have to try making clear totes/knobs one day to see if I can do better.


----------



## corelz125

I agree with NOTW


----------



## ac0rn

Kenny- "Like I said, I think it's the same reason people appreciate a painting or a song or a sculpture. It makes you feel something unique. Something that's worth the investment it requires of you be that time or money."

I agree with Kenny. Though I don't feel the Hotley planes are that hot, and not many an average Joe can come up with that amount of scratch. Certainly the planes that Sansoo restores look as good or better.


----------



## donwilwol

It's only money. It's just a matter of do you have it or not. If course there is that "priority" thing as well.


----------



## Notw

> I agree with NOTW
> 
> - corelz125


I'm confused, what just happened? Did someone agree with me?


----------



## HokieKen

> I agree with NOTW
> 
> - corelz125
> 
> I m confused, what just happened? Did someone agree with me?
> 
> - Notw


Yes but don't get too excited, it was only Corelz ;-P


----------



## donwilwol

> I agree with NOTW
> 
> - corelz125
> 
> I m confused, what just happened? Did someone agree with me?
> 
> - Notw


I've been told even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in a while.

I'm not sure how that's relevant, but it seems appropriate.


----------



## corelz125

Just because I sent Kenny some "folk" art now I've been labeled.


----------



## 33706

> Hand plane with a clear handle
> 
> Looks uncomfortable as Hell, but looks cool (ish).
> 
> Would be cooler if the knob was also clear and if the tote was more rounded like a Stanley. I might have to try making clear totes/knobs one day to see if I can do better.
> 
> - DevinT


There are Turner and Millers Falls with the so-called Permaloid translucent totes and knobs out there. I had a thread going about casting your own knobs and totes using polysiloxane molding compound and liquid epoxy casting resin. It can certainly be done, the only problem is finding the right translucent tints. Not a problem if you wanted clear ones! Most colorants are opaque. I'll dig up some photos of my Permaloid ones and post them.


----------



## DevinT

Wow wow wow, that looks gorgeous!


----------



## 33706

> Wow wow wow, that looks gorgeous!
> 
> - DevinT


Here's my genuine "Turner" #4, which I bought long ago from an Aussie dealer.


----------



## HokieKen

That 209 is one of the "stragglers" I referred to earlier for which I still search


----------



## 33706

> That 209 is one of the "stragglers" I referred to earlier for which I still search
> 
> - HokieKen


Do you mean *with* Permaloid garniture or without?


----------



## drsurfrat

Yes, the 209 is *very* cool, and the knob is the same clear cellulose acetate (Permaloid) as the tote. I had a set and fleece'bayed them years ago. They have a tendency to warp and crack, even as spiffy as the good ones do look.

Kenny, here's a fake label if you ever get one.










Note that permaloid is made by Hercules, known maker of smokeles gunpowder. (Unlike Hogdon's Pyrodex, my favorite)

OK, Down the rabbit hole: cellulose acetate is similar to nitrocellulose, which can be mono-, bi- and tri-valent nitrogenated. The mononitrate was used as nail polish. The tri version (TriNotroCellulose) aka gun cotton is similar to TriNotroTolulene, aka TNT…


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah PK, the 209 was the only plane MF made with permaloid furniture. I've always wondered why they never made a jack with those handles. I have to assume that they just didn't sell enough of the smoothers. But yes, I'd love to acquire one and I would prefer it was all original for sure but I'd live with one with repro handles if the price was right. The 209 was also fully chromed on the bare metal and was the only MF olane to have that distinction too. And from the examples I've seen, the chrome plating held up superbly. They were named "DeLuxe" planes by the MF marketing department.

Mike! I can't believe you Ebayed my plane! :-(


----------



## drsurfrat

It was only the knob and tote, and I would have given them to you if I had known you back then. You will get the next one that falls into my hands.


----------



## Lazyman

Here is a little jointer I saw at the cooper's shed in Colonial Williamsburg today.


----------



## bandit571

Was a bit busy, today…









At the halfway point…every step seemed to go "CRUNCH"

How to remove burn marks..









From moving to slow on a tablesaw….









Just plane them off

BTW: What is a Schrade OLD TIMER Honesteel? Picked a tool bag loaded with pliers for $2…found a leather belt sheath, with a flat steel bar in it…


----------



## bandit571

Photos?









As found in the tool bag..









Steel!









With a Patent Number…


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Hmm, found a OLD TIMER Honesteel for sale on Amadud, is a made in China clone.

Borrowed from bladeforums.com forums:

The Schrade HS1 Honesteel was a unique knife sharpener which came boxed with a sheath, leather thong, and use instruction sheet. According to the Schrade instructions, its uses are; General sharpening on most cutting tools, Cracking Deer Pelvis, Wood Splitting and as a fish "billy". Touted by Schrade as "The Lazy Mans way to Sharpen", they were designed to be used without the need for oil or wetting agent. The unique sheath is designed as a handle for easier sharpening.

The Honesteel was patented by Henry B. Baer ("Uncle Henry"), and assigned to Imperial Knife Associated Companies. The design patent was filed in June of 1971, and issued in July of 1973. The patent expired in 1984, fourteen years. The design claim allowed was "The ornamental design for a combination whetter and sheath". The patent does not mention the tapered end, nor show the sheath deployed as a handle, or claim that it can be used as such. The patent drawings also show the finial as the bottom part of the female snap portion, though no claim for it's use is mentioned. Neither is there mention of the honesteel's surface texture or material, or uniqueness of it's use. Those details would have been subject matter for a utility patent which evidently Henry's patent attorney advised against, probably based on a search of prior utility patents. The patent issued July, 17, 1973 as #D-227733. The name "Honesteel" did not appear in the patent, where it was referred to as a "combination whetter and sheath". "Honesteel" was a separate copyrighted trademark name.

The HS1 first appeared in the 1972 catalog with a stamp of SCHRADE - WALDEN over OLD TIMER over HONESTEEL over PAT. PEND. Most of these came in a "Schrade-Walden" stamped sheath. These early ones had a single face bevel, later changed to a double bevel. Patent Pending stamps are more commonly seen with the Schrade tang stamp, indicative of the patent issue after mid 1973 when Schrade Walden became Schrade Cutlery. The Schrade-Walden (and early Schrade) HS1 Old Timer Honesteel appears with two holes in the handle. The first, smaller hole (0.262), is a thong (or lanyard) hole. The second, larger round hole (0.274), is for handle attachment into the finial when the Honesteel is reversed into the sheath. The first thongs were tied in a square knot, or included loose in the box. Later it was permanently attached with a metal cylindrical clamp band near the joined ends.

The Honesteel was listed in the 1973 Schrade Cutlery catalog as HS1 Hone Steel, patent pending, and sold for $10.00 with sheath/handle and thong. In 1975 it is also called the HS1 Hone Steel (picture notes still pending, though this may have just been an oversight) and sold for $11.00 with sheath/handle and thong.
By 1980, the name in the catalog was made one word, Honesteel (as it always was when stamped on the tool), the thong hole had been eliminated, and the second hole made teardrop shaped to facilitate the included thong while still allowing handle attachment, and the price was $15.00. The thong was shown permanently attached with a metal clamp band. Since the Honesteel this was seen on was mint and complete in the brown woodgrain folding box with the accompanying paperwork, this was a factory installed item.

In 1988 the price was $20.95 (thong not illustrated now), $22.95 in 1989, and $24.95 in 1991, and $25.95 in 1992. In the 1999 catalog it listed for $36.95, and the single hole for handle attachment was made round. The price was $37.95 in 2000, when it appeared alongside the new SK-1 diamond sharpener which sold for $9.99. Schrade dropped the HS1 Honesteel from the catalog in 2001, and from then until the closing, the SK-1 was the only hone offered by Schrade.

The sheath style stayed the same for the full production period, though variations in finish paralleled those of production knife sheaths. I have one circa 1980's with a tan suede sheath. Most I have seen have been either smooth brown polished leather or natural undyed polished leather like the replacement knife sheaths. It is a rectangular tubular folded sewn sheath with a small rivet at each end of the brown or white stitching for reinforcement. A male stud (sometimes called a finial) affixed to the interior engages the hole in the Honesteel when the sheath is used as a handle, and a bifold lateral flap has male and female snap studs for closure. The back of the sheath is folded over the back and riveted with two small rivets midway down the sheath back forming a belt hanger. The first sheaths were stamped "SCHRADE-WALDEN over OLD TIMER over HONESTEEL", though most of the sheaths seen are embellished with the identifying emboss "SCHRADE over OLD TIMER over HONESTEEL"

The true composition of the Honesteel is, according to the included sheet, "high carbon cutlery steel" (I occasionally see one with rusted spots) and impregnated with chromium carbide. It seems to be several times harder than common steel, as I have never seen one worn out. They are seven inches long, 1" wide, and the end opposite the stamp and hole is tapered to a chisel shape, purportedly for splitting deer pelvis.

The aggressive surface texture is a modified file, striated lengthwise. It works well with most blade steels, but I find the handle contrivance to not be rigid enough to be of any help in actual use. Often when I see an older used unit, the back of the sheath shows signs of stropping, which is a good use. Schrade sold a good many of these over the years, and whether or not there were repeat customers for them, they are a useful tool. A set of the three main types makes for an interesting addition to any Schrade knife collection.

Type 1
Stamp: SCHRADE-WALDEN over OLD TIMER over HONESTEEL over PAT. PEND.
Sheath Stamp: SCHRADE-WALDEN over OLD TIMER over HONESTEEL
Thong: Tied
Holes: 2 round
Bevel: Single (front)

Stamp: SCHRADE-WALDEN over OLD TIMER over HONESTEEL over PAT. PEND.
Sheath Stamp: SCHRADE-WALDEN over OLD TIMER over HONESTEEL
Thong: Clamped
Holes: 2 round
Bevel: Double

Stamp: SCHRADE over OLD TIMER over HONESTEEL over PAT. PEND.
Sheath Stamp: SCHRADE over OLD TIMER over HONESTEEL
Thong: Clamped
Holes: 2 round
Bevel: Double

Stamp: SCHRADE over HS-1 PAT. NO. Over D-227,733
Sheath Stamp: SCHRADE over OLD TIMER over HONESTEEL
Thong: Clamped
Holes: 2 round
Bevel: Double

Type 2
Stamp: SCHRADE over HS-1 PAT. NO. Over D-227,733
Sheath Stamp: SCHRADE over OLD TIMER over HONESTEEL
Thong: Clamped
Holes: 1 teardrop
Bevel: Double

Type 3
Stamp: SCHRADE over HS-1 PAT. NO. Over D-227,733
Sheath Stamp: SCHRADE over OLD TIMER over HONESTEEL
Thong: none
Holes: 1 round
Bevel: Double

DuckDuckGo search Chi is strong right now….


----------



## bandit571

Not too bad…since I paid $2 for a tool bag with 10 pliers and the Honesteel in it…AND threw in 2 Piano hinges…gave to tool bag and the pliers to my Grandson to use….kept the hinges and the Honesteel.

have already tried it out on a couple of my pocket knives. Does a NICE job! Debating on whether to get a new leather thong…for it.


----------



## DevinT

Sounds like the chestnut Tools Universal Sharpener from Lee Valley


----------



## MikeB_UK

Technically it's a steel, not a sharpener - it straightens the edge, but doesn't remove any material.

In practice it means you can go a long time between sharpenings and touching up the edge only takes a couple of seconds, but you will need to sharpen again eventually.

Damn good price for it


----------



## HokieKen

Those are like the steels that chefs and butchers use. Basically it consolidates the steel and forces a burr. A nice, uniform and razor sharp burr if used properly. However, said burr is also very fragile so you'll need to use the steel often to reform it. I use them for butchering game and they work great. I haven't ever found them very useful for anything else though.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Thanks for the type study Captain. Apparently, there may be a Type 4 still available on Amazon!


----------



## HokieKen

There's a type 1 Millers Falls #7 on Ebay. I was keeping it to myself but it crept up past my limit last night. I'd like to tell you that no tears were shed. But even the most masculine among us have our weaknesses.

Anyway, I can't part with the scratch it's gonna take to buy that sucker so it's open season if anyone else is interested. My prediction is that it will sell for $625.


----------



## bandit571

There was also a M-F No. 18 cruising on the Bay….cheap, too….with box!


----------



## TedT2

> There's a type 1 Millers Falls #7 on Ebay. I was keeping it to myself but it crept up past my limit last night. I'd like to tell you that no tears were shed. But even the most masculine among us have our weaknesses.
> 
> Anyway, I can't part with the scratch it's gonna take to buy that sucker so it's open season if anyone else is interested. My prediction is that it will sell for $625.
> 
> - HokieKen


I asked a tool buddy of mine if he had one today. He has several hundred planes…he said he has never seen one….he collects no. 2's…I am trying to help you out…lol


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks for looking out Ted! They are definitely few and far between. If your buddy has a Fulton 3708 that was made by Millers Falls, I might be interested in that too. They seem to be a lot more common than the MF version for some reason.


----------



## HokieKen

A Millers Falls 24 popped up overnight too. Another rare one to find.


----------



## corelz125

Better be hand delivered for that Shipping price Kenny.


----------



## HokieKen

Factoring in shipping, I'd consider getting it for less than $200 shipped a good deal Corelz. Looking a pictures though, I can't tell type. Looks like T4 based on the stained wood. Could be T3 with brass hardware though. If it has the red frog and recessed adjuster, I'd go a little higher than one with a black frog and domed adjuster nut. $200 shipped even for a T4 isn't a bad deal for anyone really wanting one though considering how rarely they show up.


----------



## corelz125

Just getting going see how many bids it gets.


----------



## HokieKen

Tell you what Corelz: you spend whatever it takes to buy the #7 and I'll buy the #24 and we'll trade ;-)


----------



## corelz125

I should of made a run for the one a few months ago on Leechs list. I have a Sargent #407 I'll trade.


----------



## HokieKen

Nope, only a MF will do. I'd do some horse tradin' for a MF made Fulton 3708 but I wouldn't give up my 24 for it ;-)


----------



## corelz125

I've watched some of the 7" Fultons before. Some go for almost the same money as a Stanley. I was surprised.


----------



## HokieKen

> I ve watched some of the 7" Fultons before. Some go for almost the same money as a Stanley. I was surprised.
> 
> - corelz125


Well yeah. Even a Sears house brand is better than those crappy old Stanley things (he says as he ducks and runs for cover)

;-)

The Fultons come up fairly often and I've seen them go for as little as $150 in good shape. One has to be careful though because Sargent also made a #2 sized plane for the Fulton line and it had the same number - 3708. So you have to be careful to make sure you know which one it is. Not that there's anything wrong with a Sargent made model, I just obviously have a particular interest in the MF version  I've been holding out for a genuine #7 but I'm coming around to the idea of a 3708 as a placeholder since they're a little easier to find and a good deal more affordable.


----------



## corelz125

That Stanley comment takes some guts. You might of just ended your friendship with Smitty.


----------



## HokieKen

Nah, Smitty's really a closeted MF fan. His Craftsman BB planes are his real favorites ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

I see how it is Kenny, the Mos Smoother just isn't good enough ;-(

I could help you fill the void with a Stanley #2


----------



## HokieKen

The Skeeter Smoother ain't goin' anywhere ;-) It just doesn't match everything else in the till. Neither does a Stanley ;-)

Speaking of Stanley… I've been snatching up MF block planes here and there when the price is right for the past couple of years. I think I've gotten to a point where I need to thin the herd a bit and let go of my remaining Stanley blocks. So I have a 9-1/2 and 65-1/2 that will both be going on Ebay shortly unless somebody on here gets to them first. So if you're interested in either of those, shoot me a PM.


----------



## Lazyman

> The Skeeter Smoother ain t goin anywhere ;-) *It just doesn t match* everything else in the till. Neither does a Stanley ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


I know you have some red paint.


----------



## Lazyman

This MF 9C found its way to my shop last week. It has a black frog (type 4?) but looks like it is pretty much unused with no rust. In fact, the discoloration on the cap and irons looks like it might be the original grease or oil it was shipped with that has dried on it. Looking forward to basic cleaning and sharpening so that I can put it to use, though it showed up sharp enough to use.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, definitely type 4 Nathan. Functionally, no problems with that vintage. I just prefer the red frog and the recessed adjuster nuts and Cocobolo. The Goncalo is probably the nicest I've seen on a T4 on that plane though. Most of the time it's a boring wood with a hideous stain. I wouldn't kick that one out of bed though, especially not in that good of condition


----------



## bandit571

Picked this morning..asking price?









Talked down to $12.75, why?




































Name on the side says "Millers Falls No. 9"

Might need a little clean up….iron was set for a very heavy cut…









Be careful going to Garage Sales….ever pick up something, and it refuses to be set back down?

Stained Hardwood handles…haven't removed the bolts in the handles yet…

One of THEM days…


----------



## Lazyman

> I just prefer the red frog and the recessed adjuster nuts and Cocobolo. The Goncalo is probably the nicest I ve seen on a T4 on that plane though. Most of the time it s a boring wood with a hideous stain. I wouldn t kick that one out of bed though, especially not in that good of condition
> 
> - HokieKen


I've been wondering about your adjustment nut preference. Is there a functionality difference you like with the recessed nut or is it just aesthetics? The MF 14C I have has the red frog and recessed nut but the wood is actually too dark to see any real grain and is actually sort of boring compared to this one. I might need to rotate the front nob, though, because the grain running diagonally just doesn't feel right. 

One reason that I bid on this one was that the wood grain was relatively interesting. In the pictures, I assumed it had been refinished but now that I have it, I don't think so given the condition of the rest of the plane. I was actually watching it as a potential for the secret Santa but it got out of range so stopped paying attention to it. An alert popped up on my iPad and it was still relatively cheap so I threw out a bid and accidentally sniped it because it turned out there were only 5 seconds left when I placed my bid.


----------



## HokieKen

No, no functional difference at all. It's purely a cosmetic preference. And honestly, I'm not even sure why I like the look of it better, I just do. Does your 14 have the Cocobolo or the Walnut-colored stained hardwood? Cocobolo is one of my favorite woods but it can be so dark that it kinda hides the character.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> I might need to rotate the front nob, though, because the grain running diagonally just doesn t feel right.
> 
> ...
> 
> - Lazyman


Be careful if you do. I have noticed on a lot of my planes that there is definitely an orientation at which the knob seats firmly and others at which it doesn't. I have to guess that the radial spacing of the ribs underneath isn't uniform so once grooves are formed, rotating it one groove may cause a slight misalignment of the grooves and the ribs. I've also read that people have problems with knobs splitting from the ribs when they tighten it down. I've never found that to be an issue but keep it in mind.


----------



## bandit571

Just checked the bolts in the handles…Type3 Blued one piece bolts..1942-46…


----------



## bandit571

There are a pair of M-F No. 18 son FeeBay..from Springfield, OH…last I looked they were ~$20 a piece…An 18 and an 18c with original boxes….if it weren't for the fact I have the Stanley version of both….


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah there's a smooth soled type 3 and a corrugated type 4 sitting at $20 Bandit. But, they both have 3 days left in the auctions. I imagine they'll get close to the $100 mark. The T3 might even break $100 since it has the box. I already have a T2 that's in good shape so I'll pass too. And boxes make no difference to me. I don't have anywhere to store the damn things.


----------



## Lazyman

I suspect that the new non-recessed adjuster design was a result of their designers working on the Buck Rodgers line. I kind of like it myself.



> No, no functional difference at all. It s purely a cosmetic preference. And honestly, I m not even sure why I like the look of it better, I just do. Does your 14 have the Cocobolo or the Walnut-colored stained hardwood? Cocobolo is one of my favorite woods but it can be so dark that it kinda hides the character.
> 
> - HokieKen


I don't think that it is the walnut-colored stained hardwood that the type study says was on the type 1 but it actually does sort of look like they applied a stain to it to darken it? I had to put it into sunlight to see the grain at all.










Fairly sure that this is a type 2 but not sure if it post or pre-war version.


----------



## HokieKen

You're right, that's Cocobolo. Definitely T2 but there's no reliable way to know if it were pre or post WWII. Supposedly if the logo on the blade doesn't have "1868" anywhere you can be sure it's post war and if it has "Since 1868" you can be sure it's pre-war based on the type study. But just "1868" could be either one. But, I wouldn't put a lot of stock in that unless it's NOS or you know for sure the blade is original to that plane. And, at least to me, it doesn't really matter. The materials and (as far as I have ever seen or discovered online at least) the casting and machining processes were the same.

The walnut-stained hardwood furniture that I've seen is very evident because the color is very inconsistent. The endgrain sections turned much darker than the long grain faces.

As far as the adjuster nuts, you might be on to something with the Buck Rogers plane. The switch was made in the main line shortly after the BR planes were released. I really never understood why they recessed them to begin with. It was extra machining time, tooling wear, and wasted material and served no functional benefit that I can come up with. It makes sense on the steel adjusters used during the war because those adjusters were made from 2 pieces presses together in order to conserve material. But I don't know why the went with that design on the brass ones out of the gate unless it was just as simple as "that's how Stanley makes theirs so that's how we'll make ours".


----------



## Lazyman

As I was fettling my new plane today after I cleaned and sharpened it, I found what may be a minor advantage to the solid adjuster nut. When you are changing the direction you want to move the iron, you usually have to turn it a ways before it starts moving the iron in the opposite direction. When I sort of flicked it with my index finger, the extra mass of the nut caused it to spin until the adjuster tab engaged the other side of the slot so there was less turning before it started to move in the new direction. The recessed nuts will do that too to some degree but this one has quite a bit of play or backlash and one flick was all it took so that the next turn was starting to moving the iron. That extra mass in the nut was actually pretty noticeable to me.


----------



## bandit571

Rehab of the latest plane, so far ( waiting on paint to dry)

Depth adjust is Brass,...threaded rod it was on, had some bad threads…rod came out of the frog with the wheel..took a while to get that fixed..

One piece bolts for the handles USED to be Blued steel….90% of the "blue" was rusted off. Threads were rusty

Under the frog (RED!) was enough junk to make decent Wren's nest….75% of the black japanning was gone, has been cleaned up, and Semi-Gloss Rustoleum to replace…

75% of the nickel plating on the lever cap was simply flakes…and pits were some of the flakes USED to be…a lot of Copper plating was showing up..there was no red paint on the lever cap..

iron had a huge chip in the middle of the edge,,since grounded off, back is now flat. chip breaker has been polished up…other bolts have been cleaned and polished up

May get the plane back together, tomorrow..after the paint cures. Photos?

Type 3?


----------



## bandit571

Look any better, now?



























Yes, that IS a brass wheel…and a frog adjust bolt…









Those are Steel bolts..most of the bluing was rusted off…merely cleaned the bolts up..









The sole was actually pretty flat, just needed cleaned up…









And there is Kenny's RED frog…


----------



## HokieKen

Looks good to me Bandit!


----------



## HokieKen

Now that #7 is still sitting at $5 over my limit after several days. I'm sure it'll get bid up with only 3 hours left. But if it ended up selling for $5 more than I was willing to pay, I doubt I could sleep tonight….


----------



## HokieKen

Nevermind, it's comfortably over my limit now ;-)


----------



## Berto

Was that the one that just sold for $737.00?

(Jumped from 430 to 737 in 30 seconds)


----------



## HokieKen

Yep Berto. I just looked and saw:









I guess I undershot with my $625!


----------



## rad457

Thank God they don't ship to Canada Anybody want to buy some rare Winchesters???? 
Not my model #94!


----------



## Lazyman

It was me that outbid you by $5 Kenny. You should not have told us what you were willing to pay.  Just kidding. I don't want one even half as bad as you do…yet.


----------



## bandit571

Trying to resist the two No. 18s….as it is only a 40 minute drive to pick them up = no shipping! $20 and $31 at the moment…..

It appears I now have a Type 2, a Type 3 and been using the Type 4 Millers Falls No.9s Don't have any "C" models.


----------



## HokieKen

I never said what I was willing to pay Nathan ;-) In fact, I didn't even mention the auction until it was bid over my limit. I have a budget of $250 set for a #7 but that's with the assumption it will be type 2 or 3. The one that went yesterday was a Type 1. I was prepared to ask my wife if she would kill me if I bid $350. But it became obvious that wasn't gonna be sufficient pretty early on. I still didn't think it would go for over $700. I definitely don't want one that bad.


----------



## HokieKen

> Trying to resist the two No. 18s….as it is only a 40 minute drive to pick them up = no shipping! $20 and $31 at the moment…..
> 
> It appears I now have a Type 2, a Type 3 and been using the Type 4 Millers Falls No.9s Don t have any "C" models.
> 
> - bandit571


I'd be surprised if the T3 goes for much less than $100 Bandit. The box will bring that one home. You might get a decent deal on the T4 though so without shipping being an issue, they might average out to a good deal for the pair.


----------



## defrosted

So, this sargent 407 #2 analog is only listed at $ 199! but it is missing the tote. And the back part of the plane where the tote would attach…..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124726000052?hash=item1d0a3fb9b4&trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAADIBhHlE4JDXdxSTYowAUIjdcttqrin2XFSzJ7%252FnTUNTA%252BIv%252FccKwhirTPLofeTrvixzG86KNZ7ShMeu7fc4sIAr6nVbM0liEy6cWWH5fGRa02Kt8ja0dH7DGr11u23ycXDR2HO2HNlrm4cQ%252BCKnq6DctTzAks3BLtcJtrAMy4b4u0vp0KkVviyaoljrSNWTFp63L3qVyCoOz7tv8q1wPj1r%252F6it8PzvhBn6dySEcwNQ36cuFfJq1bg%252BPJifk2KNHUaKA3a6K%252BcqSyr1eQmITJiVP35lV4katqi77gQ5fB1lbuBKInj%252BF%252B8ga46N6I0BtpV1M59uRfWk7oZgPTw3qvTeBkAZ9ikW3UoW7VYNrwVgo9d5bUQaEgKnT6wUpJkdcURNaEnq7wp5nIWXrr2Wz1Ft1lOG6NQ7n6sj200nj4f%252BLFGZT471t9OEuSqgjYWNNqjFRKiSlQyhG7Z4su%252BGXiyyiu839rl8DKiGuWLedO6Pmexpk2LjgrbVsj8p6nknacHh2sQ04eZJp6foqizoGLiqc%252B1cGc3NCLacmKBkBRUmHNb1YZ1Cik7qzd25WPilFof9zQqyHjA3KzlYSvtacuiU8nTRnYbYJ06ZmVl%252FvfKzeX157jdKK3nxmXoRgkyySj7hhclC%252FlM0hbYTOj%252B74cOBCNQvfUVhap0XR9f4VinNij2tjpBOMr4GxcpqUIFvYdlnySdEeLHmz4ExialsKZZdI4lFLSkPSNExafo7x8%252F8gZpUf2jR%252Be20lJfNeO8IosFsGSx8LEWnwIIngk9kHijHoMmMIU1N%252BNmQ%252BlSt4PwuqmOHynEg7FCe0A2jcxlu4eLReA%252F3doz5OJj9%252FEXGIXUOxtThVtUG9RsaKFoGfofEFwF9iYJSdgUZgXwK1GztpfRA5RPYV6Mp4wrmSfIe4Ueu5dvY78kpxvBeLmrgZwyqMGe5RYKeC5vCrStGNRbJ0FCDEwk8eXN9di1J1iEq1hfKTQAdSzgAo%252Bsu8ADEJP1oaPgihGH4saq7hAvxVFmNYlkDGSQZv5ayPmc4kMUj%252Ba9Q2RWn01TiXWa2peUCSbcqNa%7Campid%3APLCLK


----------



## HokieKen

Somebody tell him.


----------



## rad457

> Somebody tell him.
> 
> - HokieKen


Nah, why ruin his day The one Kent found for me looks pristine compered to that and a lot cheaper!
LOL! the Grangirls kinda like it, just there size Well still a bit big for the 6 year old!


----------



## defrosted

Lets look at the positive perspective of this partial plane!!

What is the number 1 complaint of the #2 size? not too narrow, not too short. The complaint is that the tote is too small!!!

Problem solved!!!!


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Some body's dream plane was expensive today!


----------



## corelz125

The bedrocks have gained a lot of momentum lately in price. That collection that was up for $5500 even sold. I hold on to some of the extra 605s I have for a few more years I might be able to retire early.


----------



## bandit571

Bid the $20 No. 18 up a bit…will wait and see…


----------



## defrosted

The $60 for my 605 was more than my plane budget was supposed to be at that estate sale but my wife actually talked me into it. on purpose.

And now i am not using it. I actually prefer the bailey pattern. I can not get the mouth of the BR open enough to use it for anything but a smoother, and jack is in its name. I can not get a 1/32" (34 thousandths or so. I am actually limited to more like 22 or 25 thousandths) clearance between the sharp (hopefully) edge and front of the throat because when I pull back the frog the beveled side of the iron is already in contact with the back of the throat so the frog can not back up at all. The only way it would work is if I had a primary bevel of 10 or 15 degrees to thin the blade away from the back of the throat and then a secondary bevel of normal proportions. And then chatter… well, maybe not if the bevel is backed up to be supported by the back side of the throat. This jack plane can not be used as a jack plane without butchering an iron, never mind a scrub plane, not that I would need a BR for that anyway. Since the throat opening is supposed to be about 2 shavings thick, I am sorta limited to 10 to 12 thousandths at a pass. Not very jackish… Anyone need a no. 605 smoother?


----------



## drsurfrat

I imagine that I a one of many 
I have a 605 that works as my primary jack. I will have to measure the throat and see if there is a difference.
Back to you soon.


----------



## drsurfrat

My jack has a throat set at 0.032", takes a 0.014" shaving. My smoother takes a much smaller bite at 0.005. It has a regular Stanley blade, just under 1/8" thick. Do you have a replacement iron that is thicker? Do you know what type yours is? (mine is a type6, 1912-21)
I am very curious…


----------



## defrosted

So my 605's throat is right at 5/32 wide (156.25 thousandths), the blade is 5/64 thick plus a thou or 3 (81 thousandths) and the frog appears to be at 44.5 degrees. So, the blade at roughly 45 degrees would fill up (80*1/cos(45))=113 thou plus 1 or 2, less than an eighth of an inch, leaving 40 + thousandths, more than 1/32" between edge and front of throat on paper, so i am not sure why I can't get more of the throat's 5/32 open.

Of course, extending the iron out the throat at that 45 degree angle even with a horizontal separation of 40 thousandths at the level of the plane's sole means 40cos45degrees or at most 28 thousandths for shavings to slide through under the low overhead of the throat front edge.

In english, the iron is roughly half as thick as the opening is wide. tilt it over 45 degrees and it takes up almost half again the horizontal space front to back or roughly 3/4 of the throat. but the shavings are not passing vertically up the opening, but rather sliding up the flat side of the iron and the closest the iron comes to the front of the throat will be less than 3/4 of the 40ish thousandths horizontal separation. mid to high 20 thousandths.


----------



## defrosted

mine is a 6a, '14 to '18. iron/blade has stanley V trademark placing it in the '12 to '18 range. and all of that is assuming I am correctly interpreting other people's research properly.

The only part I am questioning at this point is the cap iron. I have to keep it fairly close to the edge of the iron to have enough travel to retract the iron fully, then it does not have a whole lot of travel before the chipbreaker is obscuring the little throat opening i have. how much iron do you have extending past the chipbreaker?

Sort of like the problem I had with my frankenplane 5 1/4 that came with a sargent cap iron and a lever cap from a sargent 409 that had been ground narrower from it's #4 ish size to fit in the #3 width body… the sargent cap iron was longer from the breaker edge to the depth adjuster slot such that the edge could not be retracted into the body. think i paid 12 for it. Had never seen a cordovan frog before either….


----------



## defrosted

ok, now that i have hijacked everyone's thread, having disassembled, adjusted, etc. I am able to extend the edge far enough to get 3/128" or 23 thousandths thick shaving. not in the scrub plane range but probably way more than the minimum to call it jack again, probably way more than i want to take at once with the jack, and way way more than i was getting before. it is almost to my theoretical thickest shaving i can pass between the iron and the front of the throat. Thank you for the help and sorry again for hijacking y'all's thread.


----------



## DevinT

> Some body s dream plane was expensive today!
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


Rob Cosman probably bought it. He has been trying to complete his bedrock collection for his shop. That was the last one on his list. I bet after he receives it, he will reveal it the following Saturday during his live Q&A.


----------



## drsurfrat

> ...
> and sorry again for hijacking y all s thread.
> - defrosted


That is what the thread is for. And you were actually talking about hand planes, so that's a bonus.

Dang, that means I don't get a backup 605….


----------



## donwilwol

i really wish they'd fix mobile on this site!


----------



## donwilwol

double post from a computer

i really wish they'd fix mobile on this site!

ok, maybe it's not just mobile!!!!


----------



## HokieKen

Should be okay now Don. Defrosted's full link has been bumped off the page. I had to ignore this thread last night.


----------



## Mosquito

but "it gets a really high score on google" so it's fine :-D


----------



## Lazyman

BTW Defrosted, to avoid dirty looks and especially from HokieKen, use the link button (the one between the italics and img buttons above the text box) to post URLs into Lumberjocks. Long links like that are especially annoying on iPhones. Sometimes we post long URL just to annoy Kenny but it does create collateral damage for the rest of us when we use our iPhones.


----------



## controlfreak

> Rob Cosman probably bought it. He has been trying to complete his bedrock collection for his shop. That was the last one on his list. I bet after he receives it, he will reveal it the following Saturday during his live Q&A.
> 
> - DevinT


Does Wood River know Rob is seeing other planes?


----------



## drsurfrat

Hey, defrosted is doing pretty good for being new to the site. He hasn't even posted his first sideways picture on this archaic site.

[BTW, it seems that if you edit/crop the pics for upload w *any* app, it will keep them right side up.]


----------



## Lazyman

Absolutely. As a site rookie, that is to be expected; however, once you have heard the sermon, you are converted from a pagan to a heathen for future sins. ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Well, got outbid on the $20 No. 18 ….I bid up to $33…and that was it. Since I already have a No. 6, and a No. 6c Type 10s….I'm good, for now…maybe next time, eh?


----------



## HokieKen

Too bad Bandit. The 18s aren't terribly rare but they don't pop up every day either. So the going rate on Ebay is definitely more than a Stanley or Sargent.


----------



## corelz125

Kenny that #24 is up to $171 and it will most likely keep rising.


----------



## HokieKen

I saw that Corelz. I'm kinda surprised really. I'm pretty convinced it's a T4 based on the stain on the knob. Can't be sure without seeing the adjuster nut though. But as a rule, a type 4 generally draws about 30% less than T2 or T3s. I really figured that one might go around the $200 mark. But, being bid that high with 2 days left to go, that's probably an underestimate.

Glad I don't need it!


----------



## corelz125

I should of went for the one that Leech had a few months ago.


----------



## bandit571

The No. 18s went for about $104 …each….too rich for me


----------



## HokieKen

Not a bad price for the T3 since it had the box with it. But I would have passed too unless I was specifically looking for one with a box.


----------



## HokieKen

I see that the type 3 went for $131. About $27 more than the type 4. That's about what I figured the type 3 would go for. The T4 sold a bit high IMO. But, I've noticed the prices of MF planes in general creeping up over the last year or so. I'd prefer people just focus on Stanley again until I can round out my not-a-collection…

I have to get a root canal tomorrow. A hair under $2k and I found out my dental insurance benefit is maxxed out for the calendar year. It's a good thing I didn't go crazy and buy that #7 over the weekend. Otherwise I'd probably have to live with an excruciating toothache until my benefit resets in January. Or sell my body for extra cash. Again.


----------



## bandit571

Seems I fell a little bit harder than I thought…right knee is acting up…badly…think I'll just sit the rest of tonight….

Just a tease, until I can get a few glare free pictures..









Way too many trips up and down the basement stairs…didn't help this knee, either…


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I have to get a root canal tomorrow. A hair under $2k and I found out my dental insurance benefit is maxxed out for the calendar year. It's a good thing I didn't go crazy and buy that #7 over the weekend. Otherwise I'd probably have to live with an excruciating toothache until my benefit resets in January. Or sell my body for extra cash. Again.
> 
> - HokieKen


I can empathise. I had an extraction last week in preparation for an implant. Yeah, $2K+/- and similar insurance issues plus some (mis-)management-related issues that left me with an exposed set of roots for about three months. Ouch.

While I've been recovering and NOT doing any heavy physical activity I've gotten most of the boards for the next garden boxes mostly jointed/skip-planed. I've been jumping back and forth between a #4, a #4 1/2 and a #6. They're all due for a good sharpening again.










When I finish planing the last one which is currently in the vise, I'll move on to ripping some corner cleats and then assembly.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Must be season for painful dental work on wood workers?

Sitting here reading the forums, with an extra hole in my head from an extraction this morning. 
Hate the taste of sucking on gauze waiting for hole to clot closed.   

Don't get started on dental insurance. It is not for folks that need major work.

Cracked a filling, and it broke the tooth; saving the tooth was dental heroism and 2x the cost to remove and implant a fake one. But might get lucky for once? Have enough left on dental insurance this year, that should be able to sneak the implant in by end of December, and then max out next year budget in January for crown on top. Just hope 2022 has no new dental issues. 

sigh.

Oh Yeah - Hand planes?
Was playing with media baster last week on a rusted mess of a 605-1/4 plane for my Bedrock user collection:
Before:








blasted, with lot more work needed:








Front knob is destroyed. It's getting Rosewood furniture, especially to replace the aluminum tote - Bleech. Have a #5 parts donor with similar age.

Now this post in plane related. 

Cheers!


----------



## RWE

CaptainKlutz:

What is the year for that 605-1/4. Guess I can survey Blood and Gore and see. Was it one of those destined for shop class at schools. I don't think I have ever seen an aluminum tote before. Very interesting. Sandblasting is really such an improvement over other methods I have used. Good work on it.

As far as all the dental stories. I had no cavities last week and my insurance paid for for my second cleaning this year. I am feeling good. I got soaked about 2 years ago with an extraction however.


----------



## corelz125

Kenny if you had a few bedrock you could of sold them and paid off the dentist.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> CaptainKlutz:
> 
> What is the year for that 605-1/4.
> 
> - RWE


I use Rob Kaune's Bedrock Type study. I'm guesstimating a type 10 or later (1933+) based on "Beds of No.603, 604 & 605-1/4 planes have raised handle receivers".


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> CaptainKlutz: What is the year for that 605-1/4. - RWE


Franken Plane?

My SWAG is plane is/was type 8A (~1927), before new blade and tote where added?

Cap iron is nickel plated Type 8 (1927-1930), did not have orange like type 9 before it was cleaned up.

Base casting is missing the patent date from Type 7, which makes it type 8 or later.
Front knob area is key type 8A ID, as knob receiver is straight walled like type 7; not cupped like later type 8's. Have examples of both. The front knob was destroyed on bottom, which was reason the cup changed in later years and supports type 8A date further.

Blade logo is newer, it is a type 10 (1933-1941)

The aluminum totes were released in early 1932 (same as type 10), and sold through 50's; best I can find on interweb.

Cheers!


----------



## RWE

All I can say is that I am happy to have some just old plain Bedrocks with wooden handles. That last post makes my head hurt.

*If you have an interweb link on the aluminum totes thing, that would be appreciated. *

I have a pretty nice collection (there I said it) of Bedrocks or rebranded Bedrocks, 2 Keen Kutters. My most interesting one is the first model of the Flatrock in a 608. I think your exploits will make me go back to studying the types and years and get mine cataloged a bit better.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> *If you have an interweb link on the aluminum totes thing, that would be appreciated. * - RWE


 They only reference I found with hard dates, was from a fleabay listing, offering NOS:










Blood & Gore site only lists Stanley started selling the aluminum totes in early 1930's.

+1 Head hurts - BTDTGTTS

My head hurts every time I attempt to fully type date all plane parts. 
Learned have 1, maybe 3 planes that appear to be entirely original with properly matching parts from same type. Didn't remember how depressing the type dating process was until you asked about the 605-1/4. 
LOL


----------



## drsurfrat

Heres a 1 page reduced version of Roger Smith/John Walters type study on Bedrocks

It is a pdf in dropbox, should be sharable


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks for that Mike! I took a look though and the formatting is pretty rough. Could you maybe change it so the columns all fit on one page width?


----------



## drsurfrat

Ah, sorry, I thought I had cleaned it up better than that. gimme some time and I will overwrite the file.

Overwriting doesn't matter in Dropbox, so I put up a new link


----------



## HokieKen

Gracious. I hate to be a picky begger ;-)


----------



## drsurfrat

That was easier than I thought.

Bedrock is the new one, don't bother with the old link

Also from Smith/Walters studies:
Baileys 
Block Planes (2 pages)
Combos (5 pages)
Routers (2 pages)

These are not exact as everyone should know (even apart from my typos) since Stanley used up parts that were left until gone.
And the No55 combo is just an adaptation fo the 45 type, nothing about it's extra parts, etc.


----------



## drsurfrat

Nah, I like (gentle) critiques. Compliments don't give you anything to improve.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks for that distillation Mike.

I have a spreadsheet in process to catalog Millers Falls tools drawing information from various sources. So far I have completed the list of bench planes, block planes, planes made and rebranded for other sellers (thanks to Glenn and Don for the comprehensive list on Don's site), push drills, spiral drivers and multi-tools. Information is readily available on eggbeaters and braces, I just haven't put it into format for my sheet yet.

But, next I'd like to tackle screwdrivers made by Millers Falls. Unfortunately, there isn't a comprehensive listing anywhere that I've been able to find. So, if anyone knows of any sources, I'd love to know what they are. Otherwise, I'll probably just start combing catalogs and trying to sort it out as I go. I'm not sure at this point if I will make a distinction between the ratcheting drivers and fixed ones or not but I hope to catalog both. I won't be lumping spiral (push) drivers in with these though because oldtoolheaven already has those sorted out.


----------



## bandit571

Take note of two chisels in the drawer?









Them 2 red handled ones on the right…Permaloid…the two on the far left are by Crescent..









I don't think anyone will be breaking THOSE handles….


----------



## HokieKen

Good lineup Bandit. I have a set of the MF Permaloid and a set of the Stanley 60s  Don't have any with cast handles though!


----------



## drsurfrat

That is like a third level of chisel; paring chisels for delicate work, firmer chisels for timber framing, and those siege-engine chisels for taking into battle.


----------



## HokieKen

Did you pony up for that #24 Corlez? Somebody wanted it pretty bad. It went for about $30 more than I figured for a T4 in that condition.


----------



## bandit571

Those all steel chisels, were made and sold by Crescent for the use of Plumbers and Electricians….There were 3 sizes sold…I have 2…so far…..

Currently watching a Stanley No. 8, Type 5….about 6 days left ….( already have a Type 7 in the shop…)


----------



## corelz125

Nope out of my budget. Went for more than I figured.


----------



## waho6o9

Oops wrong thread.


----------



## HokieKen

Okay, not plane related but this popped up in my Millers Falls search alert on Ebay and I've been having a WTF fit ever since.

I'm no connoisseur of fine art but I can usually tell the difference between a Picasso and something my granddaughter did in her kindergarden art class. So this painting strikes me as somewhere in between but closer to the latter. So given the appearance of the painting and the absurd starting bid, I figured it must be something by a really famous painter. Well, not that I can find on google.

For me, the icing on the cake was when I was looking at the detail pics in the description and noticed that the train is just chugging right across the grass. No tracks required in New England I guess?

Strange coincidence too that the canvas has "Since 1868" printed on the back too 

So am I missing something or is this just absurd? And the seller is pretty established and has a lot of what appears to be "amateur" art listed. But it all appears to be much better than this one and it's all listed at much lower prices.

I'm just trying to decide if it's a worthwhile gamble for $2 million or if I should pass…


----------



## Lazyman

The best offer button is available Kenny. Offer them $2. I am sure they will just assume you had a misplaced decimal point.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Beware of that kind of sale on fleabay. Notice the free local pickup only?
Two high dollar scam types I have heard about:

1) It is a type of money laundering scam.
The buyer will actually pay the high price, pay with dirty cash, stolen or overseas CC. 
Seller is related to buyer. They give painting and money back, minus a commission; upon pickup

2) Is masqueraded sale.
The buyer pays the price, and when painting is picked up; it includes some illegal contraband; guns, drugs, diamonds, etc.

Ignore it, or report it; but definitely don't get involved with seller.
Don't need ANOTHER reason for FBI to be parked outside your house.


----------



## drsurfrat

Ohhhh, that's wicked bad gahbage.

There was a period in the '30's depression that had this kind of art by amateurs trying to get dinner. They became collectible with the novelty that there were obviously untrained painters. I believe that they were nicknamed "outsider art" -Yea, wiki says it was coined in 1972, and it wasn't just the 30's depression.

I'm pretty sure that this did not include 1980's acrylics that were painted on mass produced canvases with a barcode.

Even funnier, the Howard Lee I found as an artist is known for his hyperrealism


----------



## HokieKen

I wondered if the seller just accidentally put the decimal place in the wrong spot Nathan. But even if you move it over two spots, that's still $20k…

CK - that is perhaps the most reasonable explanation. But if you were laundering money through art, why do it on Ebay where there are fees? 5% of 2 million bucks is pretty hefty!

Outsider Art is interesting Mike. Never heard of it before. I agree though, I don't think this one falls into that category either.

Maybe the seller's grandkid made this for him and he told them it was so good he was going to try to sell it for two million bucks. Then the child demanded proof ;-)


----------



## Johnny7

> So am I missing something or is this just absurd?
> 
> - HokieKen


Kenny, you philistine! - that is a Hunter Biden original!


----------



## theoldfart

Does that qualify as a crypto-NFT-BS' n investment vehicle?

No, I don't know what I'm talking about!


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> But if you were laundering money through art, why do it on Ebay where there are fees? 5% of 2 million bucks is pretty hefty! - HokieKen


Fleabay/Paypal is legit bank and money transfer agent. If they actually accept the dirty cash, and give seller (buyer in disguise) clean money; 5% is not bad deal?

What other options exist for buyer and seller to keep the deal at arms length, and look legit (regardless of reason for sale)?
- Art or Auto Auction service wants 10-20% buyer/seller premium.  
- Raw gold transactions lose at least 10% to covert nuggets thru jewelry store 'off book', .vs. selling to exchange which is reported as mining income. Gold bars are serialized and tracked.
- Real estate transactions subtract 8-12% off value of every sale. 
- Bitcoin and other virtual currencies have all US exchange transactions over $4k per day logged, tracked and flagged for review against IRS records; just like bank transfers.

IME - People with big money work hard to hide where it comes from, where it goes, and can afford the commissions or 'gifts' given for services rendered to keep it quiet. DAMHIK


----------



## defrosted

stuck at home. i will never know if this is truly a treasure trove of planes as advertised or not


----------



## Lazyman

Transactions like that are not a good way to launder money. Anything over $10k is going to catch the eye of the IRS and a bunch of other agencies too. Money laundering is about a bunch of small transactions spread out over time.


----------



## HokieKen

> Fleabay/Paypal is legit bank and money transfer agent. If they actually accept the dirty cash, and give seller (buyer in disguise) clean money; 5% is not bad deal?
> ...
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


Paypal takes another 3% on top of Ebay's 5. But I guess I was thinking that doing the transaction through PayPal and skipping Ebay would serve the same purpose. As Nathan said though, I don't think anyone paying $2M for a painting from the resident artist at the School for the Blind is going to go unnoticed by the authorities regardless ;-)


----------



## Notw

Wow this is a nice Stanley no. 1

so if anyone wants to give me $2,395.00 just let me know.


----------



## defrosted

my wife said No. Actually i am not sure if that was no we are not buying it, or no we are not giving money away…


----------



## HokieKen

> my wife said No. ...
> 
> - defrosted


This will probably be etched on my tombstone.


----------



## controlfreak

> my wife said No. ...
> 
> - defrosted
> 
> This will probably be etched on my tombstone.
> 
> - HokieKen


Hell, I could etch that on a lot of my tools too!


----------



## controlfreak

In my ongoing search for the perfect sharpening system I now have four. Wet stones, PSA on float glass, work Sharp and now diamond plates. I needed something for wide irons and one way on PSA was ridiculous. I free handed some irons last night and liked it. It allows me to put a slight camber on it and speed things up. I even turned my fathers old Craftsman No. 4 into a scrub plane, something that's been on my wish list. So anyway I have most of my planes sharp now and will continue through the weekend.


----------



## HokieKen

For putting any true camber on a blade, free-hand is about the only way to go. Otherwise, it's the WS and a jig for this fella.


----------



## Lazyman

> my wife said No. ...
> 
> - defrosted
> 
> This will probably be etched on my tombstone.
> 
> - HokieKen


Followed by "Yeah Right"


----------



## defrosted

here is a 1 for only 1650!!

Trying to convince my wife this is a savings of 750….


----------



## controlfreak

> For putting any true camber on a blade, free-hand is about the only way to go. Otherwise, it s the WS and a jig for this fella.
> 
> - HokieKen


I have no jig and the work sharp freehand will just let me screw things up faster.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree completely about freehanding on the worksharp. That can ruin your day in a hurry if you aren't careful.


----------



## Ocelot

Aside from that "art", I'm seeing some Corningware™ for hundreds of dollars too.


----------



## RWE

I think Hokie is correct about freehand sharpening. However I gave up on trying ot master that a while back. I think it requires a more frequent cycle of sharpening than I practice to become good at it.

I do like the Veritas MKII jig with the camber roller option. It is kind of best of both worlds approach. It holds the degree setting and you and rock the iron to match the camber that you have set on the edge.

I use the flat roller most, but on the couple of cambered irons, I use the camber roller. I also have the jig that accepts narrow irons/chisels.

I would recommend it.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> my wife said No. ...
> 
> - defrosted
> 
> This will probably be etched on my tombstone.
> 
> - HokieKen


Only if you don't listen to her


----------



## Notw

> here is a 1 for only 1650!!
> 
> Trying to convince my wife this is a savings of 750….
> 
> - defrosted


Every time my wife goes shopping first thing she says when she comes in is look how much I saved


----------



## corelz125

Kenny how's the MF sharpening jig for a camber?


----------



## HokieKen

Useless Corelz. It's just like the Veritas mk1 as far as that goes. It has a flat roller the full width.


----------



## DevinT

My Dad drove up state to see the new baby, spouse, and myself … and brought family tools to hand down!

Tools he inherited from his father and his father's father. I have come into my possession tools from my own grandfather and great grandfather. Some tools I have never heard of before and some I have yet to identify.

First up, the hand planes. There are two:

First we have a transitional. It is 10" long, and has a razee back end, so I am thinking Stanley #36 (very early model).










This was my great grandfather's plane (as is the one behind it which we will get to, but first the transitional). My next comments on the quality of the plane do not accurately reflect how I feel about this plane which is priceless to me being a family heirloom. That being said, let's get to the unbiased opinions.

Japanning looks pretty rough. The rear tote is loose and without a toe screw, I'm not sure how I'm going to fix it until I get the tote off to see what the boss looks like. Surprisingly, the depth adjuster has reverse threading, so as I spin the wheel clockwise, it raises the blade. Both of the planes from my great grandfather are that way. It threw me for a loop at first when I went to go retract the blades. The knob spins surprisingly well for its age.

We (my father and I) upon inspection and taking apart these planes found shavings that looked like red oak. Great grandfather lived from 1880 to 1985, so he has tools from multiple eras. Not sure how old these tools are, but I am thinking this transitional is late 1800's. Here's where things get interesting:










At first we thought it didn't have a brand. I took a brass bristle brush and showed my dad where to scrape on the blade and like magic, we had a name: "SAVAGE"

No markings on the front










I googled for savage hand planes and/or blades and I get nothing related to what I am looking for.

My favorite part of this plane is the lateral adjuster. It has a twist in it. I've only ever seen that on early Birmingham transitionals ("B" planes). I really like the twisted lateral adjusters. Reminds me of twisted railroad spikes that my dad used to bring home.

It's clear great-grand-dad used the plane because the lateral adjuster was bent slightly downward to make it easier to access with your thumb while planing.

Next up, is great grand-dad's vintage Worth plane. (I found this thread)










That handle is in rough shape. Is that plywood? Clearly this tool was loved and needed to work but resources were tight and ingenuity provided a solution.

This one was packed with shavings, so it was clearly used. Japanning is a little rough, great patina. Again here too I find that the depth adjuster is buttery smooth. If anything can be said for my grandpa and great-grandpa, they kept their tools well oiled.

This plane has a unique dog-leg in the metal plate behind the lever on the lever cap. After playing with it for a mere 10 seconds, I declared it superior to Stanley's lever cap action. It has a more positive feedback from being locked into place. It was also easier to get it locked into place while providing the same amount of tension as-on a Stanley which just has the flat plate which lays [nearly] flush with the back of the lever cap when the lever is lifted. It's a nice design. I also see that on *bandit571*'s post in this thread.

I'll get measurements on it tomorrow and take more pics. It's about the size of a Stanley No 5-1/4

Up next, we have a draw knife. That's like a hand plane for people wanting to debark trees in the forest, right? Or maybe putting really really big chamfers on table legs? I'm not exactly sure how to best use a draw knife (personally) quite yet, but now I am the proud owner of one and will gladly find a way to use it (if only to scare small children on Halloween … I joke).




























It is very sharp.

OK, this one is just really cool. It's a Millers Falls 732-101 ratcheting bit brace, complete with quite a few bits.




























There are some really unique bits in there. Like one which appears to be an adjustable hole saw which can adjust from 0-3" in size. I'll definitely have to take pics of that, but it's getting late and need to get to bed.

Let me throw in a few more goodies though.

A set of triple-slip-joint pliers, which I've never seen before. Not one, not two, but *three* different jaw positions on these slip-joint pliers:



















And now I will leave you with a mystery to help me solve. What on Earth is this …




























Aside from the obvious which it is a clamp to hold things, there is a lever to tighten the angle which is rather limited in motion even when loosened. Then there is another lever to tighten the jaws. What would you hold with this thing?


----------



## MikeB_UK

That's a saw vise Devin - holds the saw plate so you can sharpen it.


----------



## controlfreak

MikeB_UK beat me to it. You have a saw vise now , along with its curse.


----------



## Peteybadboy

Devin,

Very cool you have those priceless tools from family! BTW in the right hands too.


----------



## donwilwol

I think you're transitional was made by Ohio. Check and see if the hole in the iron is an octagon. I've seen the Savage marking before, but don't recall where.


----------



## bandit571

Might be an 035? made by Ohio Tool Co. ( Yes…I do have such a plane in the shop…with a very THICK tapered iron)

One of the nicer things about using that draw knife…you can use it bevel up, OR, bevel down, depending on the direction of the cut vs the direction of the grain…having trouble with the knife wanting to "dive" down into the wood…flip the knife over…..Drawknives are great at turning a square stick into a round pole….then smooth the ridges you've left with a spokeshave….

The main problem I found with the Worth plane's frog….is where the bolt for the lever cap goes….as that hole can, and will move…..best to tilt it back towards the rear of the plane….Otherwise, after the first couple of strokes across the wood, the depth setting will have changed…as the bolt will tilt to the rear, taking the iron and chipbreaker with it.

I seem to recall that the name "Savage" was a hardware store brand name…..doubt if it is related to Shotguns….


----------



## MikeB_UK

Savage Arms made the lewis gun, no clue if they made plane irons though


----------



## theoldfart

Savage Arms did produce shotguns. I had a 12 gauge five shot pump from them. A good friend was the CFO there.


----------



## controlfreak

On the shooting range at camp everyone wanted the Savage because it sounded cool!


----------



## DevinT

I found a patent from early 1900's assigned to Alva L. Savage for a unique adjustable beveling plane

Perhaps this is the name Savage refers to.

It could be possible that either the blade was married with an Ohio Tool Base and sold together at a store of the time, or that the blade was a replacement for an [unbranded] Ohio Tool plane.

Though other Ohio Tool transitional owners report having the blade with octagonal hole. I'm thinking that Savage made blades for Ohio and even for some Sargents that I've seen. Though it's also possible that these blades were sold alone and found their way into these planes because those are the planes they were made for? You never see such blades in Stanley planes for example.


----------



## DevinT

> That s a saw vise Devin - holds the saw plate so you can sharpen it.
> 
> - MikeB_UK


AHA! That answers another question, which is how exactly grandpa took a hacksaw blade and fashioned it into a knife. Check this out:


----------



## KentInOttawa

Some tasks just leave you feeling good. I especially like knocking the aris off the edge of a board; the curlies are just so < descriptor of your choice here >.


----------



## donwilwol

The octagon hole was to get around the patent Stanley had for the hole being at the bottom. Ohio moves the hole to the bottom an d made it octagon so it wasn't the same, trying to avoid a patent suit. They were in all their plane of that time, not just transitionals


----------



## DevinT

Took my dad to MacBeath Hardwood again today and he picked out some wood that neither of us could identify. Looked like Buninga but not quite. Staff at the store told us it was Santos Mahogany. Beautiful stuff. The Veritas No 4 was having a rough go and kept diving in and tearing out. I figure it was tired and maybe needs a sharpen. Pulled out the Stanley No 8 and it made short work with the extra mass. Thick cardboard-like shavings with zero tear-out.

Dad was impressed.

Making a family-name plaque out of it for him and will take it down to him for Christmas.


----------



## theoldfart

Devin, MacBeath is inBerkley?


----------



## DevinT

It is. My dad started telling the guys there how he used to buy from MacBeath down in Montebello in the 60's and 70's. I mentioned that the store we were in (Berkeley) has been there for over 60 years and the staff proudly proclaimed that the Berkeley store was the first! I never knew that Berkeley was the first location, and now I am very happy that I was able to give my dad that experience of visiting the first after growing up buying lumber from one of their other locations.


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, a couple of trends who did boatbuilding and house restoration told me to go there. It's a bit of a ride for me but I will get there. In the mean time Hughes in Sacramento has a good selection for my needs. Recently bought a bunch of basswood for the railroad car I'm working on.


----------



## Ocelot

Devin,

Karpenter was one of the brands made by Winsted Edge Tool Works of Winsted Conn. T. H. Witherby was also made by them.


----------



## JohnDi

PSA there is a Stanley #1 on Phila. Craigslist.

Person wants $2400

Never thought I would see one of them on CL.


----------



## Johnny7

> PSA there is a Stanley #1 on Phila. Craigslist.
> 
> Person wants $2400
> 
> Never thought I would see one of them on CL.
> 
> - JohnDi


This is the very same plane (e*ay) Notw linked to in post #9097 (above)


----------



## DevinT

Correction, I said my grandpa made that knife from a hacksaw blade. He actually made it from a railsaw blade. A railsaw is a machine that cuts rail for the railroad. In the photo next to the knife is not a hacksaw blade but a blade for said machine and is harder than railroad rail. To make the knife he used a high powered grinding wheel at the rail yard.


----------



## DevinT

Showed Dad fonts.google.com today and had him pick out a font for a family plaque, and put something together quickly and threw it on the Shaper Origin and made a plaque for Dad. Then we threw some Danish Oil on it and some finishing wax and called it done. Wanted him to leave home with something nice as a Thank You for the visit. It has been almost 5 years since we had seen each other last. It was a lot of fun having Dad by my side in the shop. It was like old times except now that he has retired he is the [wise] helper and I am the worker. It was truly splendid.


----------



## DevinT

Oh, and I should mention he brought me a new Railroad lantern! He knows I love the railroad. My family has worked for the railroad for 3 generations before me, and though it was never right for me, I always loved everything about it. Especially the times he snuck me onto the train for a ride-along, despite the fact that I fell asleep both times (much to his conductor's amazement as to how a child could fall asleep on a freight locomotive).


----------



## HokieKen

Very cool stuff Devin! Looks like you got the rundown on most of your tools. I'll toss this in: I can't find any info. on the -101 version of the 732 brace so I'm not sure what the suffix identifies. Very possibly means it was made under contract for the government or some large company. But, the 732 brace is a very good user and one of the more popular Millers Falls models. The 10" swing is a good, general-use size and the enclosed ratchet and holdall chuck means it was one of their upper shelf models at the time. It had Cocobolo wood before the war and "tropical hardwood" after 1935. I'm guessing your's is of the later variety with the -101 suffix. If that's the case, it will also have a ball-bearing head.

You can estimate vintage a little further by the jaws. If it has Leland's Universal Jaws:









it would have been made pre-1957.

It was made after 1957 if it has Economy Universal Jaws:









All this information is from the brace section of oldtoolheaven so you can dig some more if you're of a mind 

And I don't see it sticking up with your other bits but I'm guessing that your "hole saw" bit is probably an expansive bit. Pretty neat bits and I've never used one but I'd be willing to bet it's a helluva workout ;-)

That knife is very cool! I don't know what railsaw blades are made of but lots of info out there on making blades from hacksaw blades. I think most of those are HSS. If it's big enough for the blade you want, it's a great way to do it, the stock is already ground flat, hardened and tempered.


----------



## DevinT

Thank you Kenny! Here are some more pictures. I am thinking pre-1957, despite its excellent condition making it look newer than it really is.


----------



## DevinT

> Devin,
> 
> Karpenter was one of the brands made by Winsted Edge Tool Works of Winsted Conn. T. H. Witherby was also made by them.
> 
> - Ocelot


I have been researching how to use a draw knife and after watching that video I have to admit that I am absolutely interested in practicing the draw knife. I just didn't know how it was used or what you did with it. Looks to be for very efficient stock shaping.

Anyone here used one before? Thoughts on the tips in the video? Anything you might add? Things you might pull it out for besides shaping an axe handle?


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, made somewhere between 1935 and 1956. Should be a good user


----------



## DevinT

Another family heirloom. Really excited about this one.

Grandpa's vise. In an antique U.S Navy fireworks/ammunition box.

Let's unpack it together. Brought up state by my dad.


----------



## RWE

> Devin,
> 
> Karpenter was one of the brands made by Winsted Edge Tool Works of Winsted Conn. T. H. Witherby was also made by them.
> 
> - Ocelot


Paul:

I have a T.H. Witherby drawknife. So I did some background Googling after your post. It seems there is no relationship between Winsted and Witherby. It was speculated that Winsted "dropped" the Witherby name in some advertising to gain some good pub, but the companies were totally separate.

I found a long discussion on this subject on another board.

Neither here nor there, but I had not looked into Witherby for several years and your post made me curious to do some research. Hey, it is on the internet, it must be true!


----------



## Johnny7

> Very cool stuff Devin! Looks like you got the rundown on most of your tools. I ll toss this in: I can t find any info. on the -101 version of the 732 brace so I m not sure what the suffix identifies.
> 
> - HokieKen


The perceived suffix is actually a mis-reading of the imprint; it says No. 732-10 IN. (the "10" and the "I" are being read as "101")


----------



## DevinT

Good eye! I absolutely believe you are correct.


----------



## HokieKen

> Very cool stuff Devin! Looks like you got the rundown on most of your tools. I ll toss this in: I can t find any info. on the -101 version of the 732 brace so I m not sure what the suffix identifies.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> The perceived suffix is actually a mis-reading of the imprint; it says No. 732-10 IN. (the "10" and the "I" are being read as "101")
> 
> - Johnny7


AH! Excellent cipherin' J7


----------



## Ocelot

Well, RWE,. I might have forgotten it wrong. I'll try to find my source.

Actually, I think I have a knife with both Winsted and witherby marked on it.



> Devin,
> 
> Karpenter was one of the brands made by Winsted Edge Tool Works of Winsted Conn. T. H. Witherby was also made by them.
> 
> - Ocelot
> 
> Paul:
> 
> I have a T.H. Witherby drawknife. So I did some background Googling after your post. It seems there is no relationship between Winsted and Witherby. It was speculated that Winsted "dropped" the Witherby name in some advertising to gain some good pub, but the companies were totally separate.
> 
> I found a long discussion on this subject on another board.
> 
> Neither here nor there, but I had not looked into Witherby for several years and your post made me curious to do some research. Hey, it is on the internet, it must be true!
> 
> - RWE


----------



## Mosquito

Yup, MF Holdall 732-10IN is 10" sweep. It's a newer type of the first version from the looks of the base on the top handle (earlier ones had a recessed metal plate instead of the full cap), and the full knurled barrel on the chuck

I like my Holdalls… I guess I do have MF stuff after all lol

http://oldtoolheaven.com/brace/brace5.htm


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## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> Anyone here used one before? Thoughts on the tips in the video? Anything you might add? Things you might pull it out for besides shaping an axe handle?
> 
> - DevinT


I'm not a big user. I have a couple but usually only use them for quickly sizing green wood for blanks. I've just never been good at using them for finish work. You have to be exceptionally careful of grain direction. You can tear a chunk out quickly and without warning. At least I can… I much prefer spokeshaves. The sole and closed mouth give me much better control. Yes, they're two different tools but they're very closely related too.


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## Ocelot

I've only used my drawknives a little.
I've found that using them bevel down gives more control. If it's wanting to go deep, just rock forward on the bevel to lever the edge up and control the depth.


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## HokieKen

> Yup, MF Holdall 732-10IN is 10" sweep. It s a newer type of the first version from the looks of the base on the top handle (earlier ones had a recessed metal plate instead of the full cap), and the full knurled barrel on the chuck
> 
> I like my Holdalls… I guess I do have MF stuff after all lol
> 
> http://oldtoolheaven.com/brace/brace5.htm
> 
> - Mosquito


Buck Rogers and Holdalls. Mighty high standards!


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## Johnny7

For *Ken's* viewing pleasure

my N.O.S. 732 (8")-the label end is stamped $5.80


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## Mosquito

I did actually find my No. 9 a couple weeks ago too. Killing time waiting for the wife to get ready to leave for the cabin, looking for one of my rivet tools I would need "Down the road" (last weekend). I wonder what's in this box… OH, a whole pile of tools… a hell, there's that MF 9

Along with a bunch of other stuff… a newer sargent, another transitional jack, a Stanley SW level (102), another Keen Kutter K5 (I didn't think I had sold that one), my dilapidated 140 skew block, couple other odds and ends. And a boxed set of Jennings No. 100's


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## Mosquito

Kenny, I also have a couple of push drills/screwdrivers too


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## bandit571

Hmmm….









So many goodies..so little space…..
.

















Somewhere down in the shop….hangs a Millers Falls No. 1950 brace…holding a countersink bit….


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## HokieKen

> Kenny, I also have a couple of push drills/screwdrivers too
> 
> - Mosquito


If I ever wrap up my plane collection, I might persue those next. I have a handful already but I do like them. I have a couple more multi-tools to round up too. They aren't really useful but they're cool


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## donwilwol

I use several draw knives for bow making. Look up any video on making a self bows and it'll probably consist of draw knives.


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## RWE

Devin:

Lately I don't get any shop time, but in a past life I used to turn projects on the lathe. The last couple of items I turned were tool handles (Osage Orange and or Persimmon) for timber framing chisels.

Now you can knock of the square corners of a spindle blank very well with a roughing gouge on the lathe, but it is a bumpy and somewhat hazardous thing if you don't know what you are doing (I do, but I teach some fellows and I like having the corners eased off for them). So, I will use one of my drawknives to knock off the corners of spindle blanks. (spindle meaning a long blank of wood versus something like a bowl blank)

When I was a wee child, eons ago, my father was a forester. They kept drawknives (bigger than what I have picked up over the years) to strip bark off of fence post material. That is where a big drawknife really shines.

I have smaller ones and they are useful for any curve as a precursor to using a spokeshave. Like any tool, sharp is better and with practice you will soon find all kinds of use for one. As far as sharpening, I have learned to clamp the drawknife to my bench, on the sides of the knife and then use a diamond plate like you would a file to sharpen the long knife blade. Plenty of info on YouTube about that.


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## corelz125

Kenny a nice Stanley 278 sold the other day for $66 it was missing the fence but think it had the depth stop. I forgot about it other wise I would of made a run at it for that price.


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## DavePolaschek

> Anyone here used one before? Thoughts on the tips in the video? Anything you might add? Things you might pull it out for besides shaping an axe handle?


Yeah, not extensively, but I have four different drawknives of various sizes (a cute little 2½" blade, up to an 8") and curves.

I tried doing the curves on the plinths of my Jefferson bookcases with a drawknife. I'm not good enough to do that, but I'm getting better with practice.

An important thing to remember is that you can use a drawknife both bevel up and bevel down. If you encounter resistance or tear-out, try skewing the blade. A slicing cut will give you a smoother result than just pulling it straight through. And IIRC, you've got a workmate, which actually works ok with a drawknife. Just put a foot on it to hold it in place. Not as slick as a shavehorse, but definitely serviceable.

Back in the spring I got a lot of practice making stakes for the trees we planted. Used a treated tubafor, cut into lengths, then ripped diagonally to make stake-like-objects with the circular saw, then refined them with the drawknife. Good practice, and even the worst mistakes still got used.


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## DonBroussard

> Back in the spring I got a lot of practice making stakes for the trees we planted. Used a treated tubafor, cut into lengths, then ripped diagonally to make stake-like-objects with the circular saw, then refined them with the drawknife. Good practice, and even the worst mistakes still got used.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Dave - I see what you did there: mistakes -> stakes.


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## HokieKen

I have a 1950 waiting in the triage pile for cleanup Bandit. It won't likely see much action though. There are some things I rely almost exclusively on power tools for. Drilling holes is one of them. Unless they're small pilot holes for screws. I like poking those with a push drill  I have a few braces but never really took to using them all that much.



> Kenny a nice Stanley 278 sold the other day for $66 it was missing the fence but think it had the depth stop. I forgot about it other wise I would of made a run at it for that price.
> 
> - corelz125


Dang, that was a good deal Corelz. That one's not on my currently active search list anymore. I decided a 289 would be a better focus for my efforts and cash. But for $66 I'd have still made a run at it too!


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## HokieKen

> For *Ken s* viewing pleasure
> 
> my N.O.S. 732 (8")-the label end is stamped $5.80
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Johnny7


That's a 733 J7 and DAMN it's beautiful!

Also, if you read the label, you would have gotten *TWO* of them for $5.80 ;-)


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## Lazyman

Time to finally get some of these out of drawers and make a till to hang on the wall. Just gotta decide which ones to include and then a design that is flexible enough to swap some out when I decide I made the wrong choice. There are a couple not shown but they aren't candidates for the till










I obviously don't just stick with a single brand in my non-collection. A few of them still need some cleanup and rust removal.

For some reason, I thought that jointer was a number 6 and not a 7. Good thing I didn't bid on that 7 I was eyeing a while back.


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## HokieKen

To me it would depend on the space available for the till Nathan. I would lean towards a till just for metal bodied bench planes on the wall and a separate hanger for spokeshaves and cabinet scrapers. Depending on space, I'd probably do a shelf for wood bodied planes. Then block planes I'd keep in the drawer. That's kinda been my thinking lately given the space I have. Of course if you have a wall space big enough, go ahead and put the woodies and block planes with the bench planes.


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## KentInOttawa

Devin - the city came through in June and trimmed some branches to make clearance for the power lines and street lights. I convinced them to leave a couple of the larger branches for me to work with. Using the drawknife 2 days after the branch was removed from the tree made really short work of debarking. As you can see, it was literally slippery and wet when first removed.

I prefer bevel-up and I almost always skew the blade. I could easily peel back 4-foot strips of bark.










A small amount of work with a crosscut saw, then some splitting waste off with a large chisel or hatchet (use what you've got), a little smoothing of the handle with the tool(s) of your choice and then some wax for the end grain and voila! I have a primitive but very usable maul.










As for plane storage, I don't think that there is one till to rule them all. I used to use this.









Now I'm using this, which is definitely more usable for me.


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## Lazyman

> To me it would depend on the space available for the till Nathan. I would lean towards a till just for metal bodied bench planes on the wall and a separate hanger for spokeshaves and cabinet scrapers. Depending on space, I d probably do a shelf for wood bodied planes. Then block planes I d keep in the drawer. That s kinda been my thinking lately given the space I have. Of course if you have a wall space big enough, go ahead and put the woodies and block planes with the bench planes.
> 
> - HokieKen


That is pretty much my thinking Kenny. The wood bodies are so far not really users so will probably migrate back to the drawer, along with the #12 and maybe my combo planes (not shown) for now. I will probably sell some of the ones that don't get used much. Several are duplicates that were picked up at estate, rummage and garage sales when they were just too cheap to pass up.

I actually have a pretty big spot I have been saving on the wall for this and have also considered making a cabinet to hang there. I like the idea of a cabinet to minimize the dust that collects but not sure I really want to open and close a door. The cabinet does help to multiply the space because you can hang stuff both inside and out on the door but you have to think about what is on either side of the cabinet when they are open.

For flexibility, I am actually thinking about making individual hangers that can basically be placed anywhere and easily moved around. I hung a sheet of plywood on the wall so that I can pretty much hang them anywhere without worrying about a cleat or hitting a stud for anything heavy like a cabinet. I started the tool wall over 2 years ago and didn't get very far before getting side tracked so I just need to concentrate on this to free up shelf and drawer space.


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## Johnny7

> That s a 733 J7 and DAMN it s beautiful!
> 
> Also, if you read the label, you would have gotten *TWO* of them for $5.80 ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


*Ken*

Back in the jurassic period of real-live hardware stores, it was typical to mark the per item price on the ends of boxes containing more than a single item. In this case, for example, no one was buying (2) braces at a time, and so the merchant would take the box down, pull out a brace, note the price, and put the box back.
If you were the buyer of the last one, you got the box. Otherwise, you took the tool bare, or it got wrapped in brown kraft paper.

I actually have more than a few boxes marked in this way.

Here's an even better shot of the label-in faded red marker you can see that, at some point, the price was reduced to "4.00 ea."










Lastly, I'd be interested to know more about that "J7" designation.


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## HokieKen

LOL. J7 = Johnny7 ;-p

Interesting about the prices. Makes sense now that you mention it. I guess it would be unusual for most folks to purchase two at a time.


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## Johnny7

> LOL. J7 = Johnny7 ;-p
> 
> Interesting about the prices. Makes sense now that you mention it. I guess it would be unusual for most folks to purchase two at a time.
> 
> - HokieKen


Boy, now I feel like a dope.
But I love my new code name!


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## controlfreak

I would like to know what year that box dates back to, $5.00 may have actually been a lot. My father used to tell me how he could pickup my mother on a date, eat dinner and see a show for less than ten dollars.


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## HokieKen

I think somewhere between 1917 and 1935 controlfreak. Assuming it has Cocobolo wood which it looks like it does.


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## Johnny7

> I think somewhere between 1917 and 1935 controlfreak. Assuming it has Cocobolo wood which it looks like it does.
> 
> - HokieKen


Kenny-in what year does the label change from "Millers Falls, Mass" to "Greenfield, Mass" take place?


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## drsurfrat

This reference says sometime after March 29, 1931.


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## HokieKen

> This reference says sometime after March 29, 1931.
> 
> - drsurfrat


Yep. At least that's when the main HQ was moved to the Goodell-Pratt site in Greenfield. I don't know that there's any mention of labels specifically but it makes sense to me that they were changed at that time.


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## HokieKen

Catalog #40 (published 1929) still shows Millers Falls, Mass









Then the 1931 Price List shows Greenfield. I couldn't find anything in between to nail it down any closer.









So, assuming your wood is Cocobolo J7, I'd say that dates your brace to between 1931 and 1935.


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## Johnny7

> So, assuming your wood is Cocobolo J7, I d say that dates your brace to between 1931 and 1935.
> 
> - HokieKen


Cocobolo or some other "tropical hardwood"-I can't say …


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## MikeB_UK

This is what happens when you have a rough bit on the back of your chipbreaker, must have dinged it on something.
Shaving catches on the rough spot accordians up and clogs the mouth.

Shaving on the right from the same plane 2 minutes later after smoothing the back.


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## controlfreak

Thanks MikeB, I have been seeing that on one of my planes and was wondering why. I have been trying to hand surface some reclaimed wood as a skill exercise. So now I need to figure out which one one the six planes I have been using that did it.


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## HokieKen

> So, assuming your wood is Cocobolo J7, I d say that dates your brace to between 1931 and 1935.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> Cocobolo or some other "tropical hardwood"-I can t say …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Johnny7


In that picture it does look more like the "tropical hardwood". I also just noticed it appears to have the ball bearing head which didn't go on the 733 until 1935. So, I guess that would put yours post-1935.


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## bandit571

Hmmm…mine seems to be from…1950s…









Not too sure about the plane (type 4) or that screwdriver….


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## Johnny7

Time to get this Handplane thread back on track-

a curiosity, which may be of interest to some.

From time to time, Stanley sold planes which were cosmetically flawed, but functionally/mechanically sound.
These were stamped "IMPERFECT" 
In my limited experience with these, all were tiny casting voids or pinholes.

here are two examples:

*a No. 78*



















*a No. 9¼*


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## controlfreak

I can almost see the ebay ad "vintage plane formerly owned by Imperfect".


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## controlfreak

I have been using more of my inventory of planes since I went though most of them and honed the irons after buying some diamond plates. This leads to a question, when you are done for the day do you just shake them off and place them in their home? or is there a routine to prepare them first. I started to blow them off and wipe with CR2 but all the dust is possibly not the best thing for my lungs either.


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## HokieKen

I tend to give them a blast of compressed air and wipe the soles and cheeks with anti-corrosive CF. You're probably right about blowing dust in the air but I've been in the habit of blowing off every tool after I use it for 25 years now. I smoked for 15 years but quit 15 years ago. I figure I'm still ahead ;-)


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## bandit571

Question: Where did the WW2 factory tour take place? Because…one of the scenes shows how they made the bends on the braces…with the sweep handle already in place….among other tasks going on….also shows the outside of the Factory…and a dam…they seem to think it was at Millers Falls?

Question #2: Just how much production did Millers Falls move to Greenfield, and how much stayed at Millers Falls? And ( Part #2A) for how long?

Didn't they also renumber a few of the G-P items into M-F's number system? Like when they kept the best braces and other G-P drills, after the take-over…but used different model numbers?

Good thing G-P didn't make planes…....


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## 33706

> Question: Where did the WW2 factory tour take place? Because…one of the scenes shows how they made the bends on the braces…with the sweep handle already in place….among other tasks going on….also shows the outside of the Factory…and a dam…they seem to think it was at Millers Falls?
> 
> Question #2: Just how much production did Millers Falls move to Greenfield, and how much stayed at Millers Falls? And ( Part #2A) for how long?
> 
> Didn t they also renumber a few of the G-P items into M-F s number system? Like when they kept the best braces and other G-P drills, after the take-over…but used different model numbers?
> 
> Good thing G-P didn t make planes…....
> 
> - bandit571


*Bandit:*

Here's a liink to the Millers Falls factory tour, 1943:






The bending of the sweep is approximately 8:31 in the video.

This is a fun video to watch!


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## bandit571

I thank you!


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## Mosquito

I missed the context of what Bandit was talking about, but I have watched that video before, and it is great. It's fun to hear the little short mentions of "So and so did that when I worked there", and what not. Fun


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## HokieKen

> Question: Where did the WW2 factory tour take place? Because…one of the scenes shows how they made the bends on the braces…with the sweep handle already in place….among other tasks going on….also shows the outside of the Factory…and a dam…they seem to think it was at Millers Falls?
> 
> Question #2: Just how much production did Millers Falls move to Greenfield, and how much stayed at Millers Falls? And ( Part #2A) for how long?
> 
> Didn t they also renumber a few of the G-P items into M-F s number system? Like when they kept the best braces and other G-P drills, after the take-over…but used different model numbers?
> 
> Good thing G-P didn t make planes…....
> 
> - bandit571


The company headquarters was moved to the GP plant in 1931 but the Millers Falls factory was kept active until it was closed for good in 1969-1970. The plant in that video is the original one on the river in Millers Falls. Which, interestingly, the plant had it's own power plant there at the dam. The factory operated on 550V instead of the 440 that everything else used. Which became an issue when Ingersoll Rand went to move or liquidate the machinery in 1970.

The GP and MF product lines were merged and pared down at the same time.  There was a lot of overlap between the product lines of the two companies. Between the two companies, there were 48 different hacksaw frames and 89 different models of braces. By the 1935 catalog, the lines were combined and cut down by about half. The vast majority of the GP products that were retained eventually got the GP name removed and MF added with a new model number. But I don' know what the timeline was on that. I haven't ever seen a good source on what was produced where but, I would imagine that for the most part, production remained where it was. Products previously made by Goodell Pratt stayed in Greenfield and everything else stayed put in Millers Falls.


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## theoldfart

A good place to look for MF/GP history is the Museum of Our Industrial History in Greenfield, MA. 
Kenny, they have a number of videos on metal machining.


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## KentInOttawa

> The company headquarters was moved to the GP plant in 1931 but the Millers Falls factory was kept active until it was closed for good in 1969-1970. The plant in that video is the original one on the river in Millers Falls. Which, interestingly, the plant had it s own power plant there at the dam. The factory operated on 550V instead of the 440 that everything else used. Which became an issue when Ingersoll Rand went to move or liquidate the machinery in 1970.
> 
> - HokieKen


 The availability of water power was important to other early plants as well. I've read in several places that Stanley chose Roxton Pond for its Canadian site in a large part because of the availability of water power adjacent to the site. They even sold electricity to the municipality for a while. Initially, Roxton Pond used a belt drive system in the plant but later went fully electric.

Johnny 7 - I have a Stanley 9 1/2 marked as "SECOND". I suspect that the reason it is marked as second instead of imperfect is that it was made in the aforementioned Roxton Pond plant, although I can't confirm that. The casting on this block doesn't indicate which country it's from, although, for what it is worth, the blade is marked as Made in CAN. I haven't been able to see anything that would have caused it to fail any QC checks.


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## bandit571

Was just pointing out…that sometimes…there are better answers out there…than just going through old catalogs….since Millers Falls was really bad about updating theirs…sometimes up to 20 years between. So What was in or on a catalog might be a wee bit out of date?


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## HokieKen

Oh I agree completely Bandit. Randy Roeder has done a fantastic job researching and compiling information on oldtoolheaven.com but he states in many places that there's info that just doesn't line up. And yeah there were big gaps between catalogs for Millers Falls and even when they were released, there are a lot of illustrations that were out of date for the time of publication.


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## HokieKen

> A good place to look for MF/GP history is the Museum of Our Industrial History in Greenfield, MA.
> Kenny, they have a number of videos on metal machining.
> 
> - theoldfart


I've spent some time on that site before Kev. Very cool site that covers a lot of different industries in the area. Not a whole lot of info on Millers Falls specifically though and their Goodell-Pratt page just links back to oldtoolheaven


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## pottz

> Another family heirloom. Really excited about this one.
> 
> Grandpa's vise. In an antique U.S Navy fireworks/ammunition box.
> 
> Let's unpack it together. Brought up state by my dad.
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not a follower here but a good friend of devin.wow girl what a treasure trove of priceless antique tools,and more importantly the memories that are associated with everyone.i know how much it means too you…..priceless !


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## donwilwol

> Oh I agree completely Bandit. Randy Roeder has done a fantastic job researching and compiling information on oldtoolheaven.com but he states in many places that there s info that just doesn t line up. And yeah there were big gaps between catalogs for Millers Falls and even when they were released, there are a lot of illustrations that were out of date for the time of publication.
> 
> - HokieKen


And he's the only one I've ever asked if I could use his info to further it and said no.


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## HokieKen

Really Don? He didn't want you to use the information he published online?


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## donwilwol

> Really Don? He didn't want you to use the information he published online?
> 
> - HokieKen


Correct.


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## Lazyman

He's got a pretty prominent "copyright all rights reserved "on each page which is pretty odd since he doesn't have any ads to help support his content. Also, fair use rules allow "limited copying of copyrighted works without having to seek the author/copyright holder's permission, when use is for purposes such as teaching, research, scholarship, reporting, criticism, or parody". This is especially true for factual information.


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## HokieKen

I just wonder what the reasoning is. He put the information out there for everyone for free presumably solely for the purpose of preserving the history as much as possible. I certainly understand him not wanting someone to take the work he did and publish it or otherwise monetize it. Perhaps it simply boils down to erring on the side of caution in regards to that?

To be clear, this is pure speculation on my part. I'm in no way casting dispersions about Mr. Roeder. He did a fantastic job compiling information and is by far the most complete source for most things Millers Falls. Regardless of his reasons, I am very much appreciative of his site. And your's as well Don! There is some MF info over there that can't be found elsewhere, including oldtoolheaven.


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## controlfreak

I think this falls under the "it's easier to say no to all" rather then giving written permission to whoever. I don't think he is trying to be rude but I must admit "No" can be very efficient at times.


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## donwilwol

Well I tried to teach my kids to share their toys, but I guess it is not for everyone.


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## 33706

> Well I tried to teach my kids to share their toys, but I guess it is not for everyone.
> 
> - Don W


*Looks like Pinterest freely borrows his images.*


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## DevinT

pottz, thank you!

It took months of prodding my Father to see what he was willing to part with. He was so impressed with my attention to detail and interest in the tools that he finally did give me some of them and I am beside myself.

I didn't get to know my grandfather or great grandfather much when they were alive, but I feel connected to them when I use their tools. I like to think that they are watching gleefully every time I put one of their tools to use on a project.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Congrats Devin, it's a wonderful connection indeed.


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## pottz

> pottz, thank you!
> 
> It took months of prodding my Father to see what he was willing to part with. He was so impressed with my attention to detail and interest in the tools that he finally did give me some of them and I am beside myself.
> 
> I didn t get to know my grandfather or great grandfather much when they were alive, but I feel connected to them when I use their tools. I like to think that they are watching gleefully every time I put one of their tools to use on a project.
> 
> - DevinT


dev ive never known anyone with attention to detail that you have.if i had a special tool i didn't need or use it would go to you.your appreciation of high quality tools impresses me.you have a passion that few have at your age or level.


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## DevinT

Thanks pottz! You're a great friend. Not sure where it comes from (I have a few ideas, stories for another time). I do know that the best thing I have found to do with it is to help others.


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## Mosquito

I may have come across a few more pieces to my Fales Patent addiction. I mean collection. I mean plane!

Only two duplicates in the lot, even, and some irons to finish some sets I already had.










Also the pistol is Otis A Smith too. Didn't really need it, but rather than come down in price on the rest, seller included it to keep the pistol together with my other Otis A Smith stuff


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## theoldfart

Nice haul Mos. What's your Fales inventory look like now?


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## Mosquito

Starting to get there… One of the more exciting pieces on that haul is the grooving attachment (attached to the plane). If you recall that odd fence that took some research of the various articles and patents to figure out how it worked. It seems to be not all that common. I just wish I could have grabbed the misc profiles that went by a few weeks ago!


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## theoldfart

Wow, you have been busy.


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## Mosquito

Yeah, though that recent haul accounted for 13 lol

I also have a 3rd plane now, since the grooving attachment came with the plane, so I'll have to decide if I keep the 3rd or list it with some other spare bases. I like having two, not sure I need 3 (says the guy with 23+ #45's…)

I'm legitimately thinking about making a home for them in a tool chest. It really is fun to use


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## HokieKen

Looks like a nice haul Mos! What other O. Smith stuff do you have? I have heard of the "S&W without the Wesson" revolvers but didn't know he made anything else.


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## Mosquito

I think I've seen reference to a saw set, and a half dozen or so pistols, but beyond that I'm not too up to speed on other Otis A. Smith tools


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## Notw

Latest restoration is a Stanley 130 dual ended block plane
Little before action


















And where I stopped, some of the pitting was unfortunately deeper than i wanted to go


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## rad457

Way too purity to use


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## DevinT

Never understood why double-ended


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## Lazyman

The short end allows you to get closer into a corner.


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## HokieKen

> The short end allows you to get closer into a corner.
> 
> - Lazyman


That's what all the boys say.


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## corelz125

A little Sansoo inspiration there nice and shiny


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## Lazyman

I finally made a till for my main user bench planes so I doubt have to get out a Lowe drawer anymore. 









I decide to make individual hangers for each plane so I could play around with different arrangements. This Still gotta make something to hold my block planes. I might just make a shelf for that


----------



## Notw

I like those Nathan, can we get a closeup of those holders?


----------



## Lazyman

Mostly made from some solid maple flooring I found on someone's trash pile which I resawed and planed to 1/4" thick.


----------



## HokieKen

I like the retention that lets you hang them flat to the wall Nathan.


----------



## Notw

I like the ability to rearrange this design, might have to reproduce it one day


----------



## Lazyman

Thanks. It took some careful fiddling to get the lengths of the top tabs just right-long enough to hold it on but short enough that when you slide it up to remove the plane it doesn't catch. I am a little nervous about the holder for the number 7 though. I wasn't thinking and made the grain on both retention tabs run sided to side and I am worried the tabs could easily snap off at some point. I might want to remake that one.

I toyed with tilting each one slightly by putting a block under the bottom of each one but decided that might look weird if each one is tilts slightly differently.


----------



## HokieKen

You could always embed a small magnet in the back at the toe for larger planes so it isn't relying solely on the tab to retain it.


----------



## DevinT

I need to know more about the things attached to your combination squares!


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Good work Nathan. Some rare earth magnets will stick those suckers nicely to the wall and relieve stress on that thin wood.

I don't see anything attached to his combo squares other than the holders securing it to the wall??


----------



## Lazyman

Yeah Kenny, I may do that on the number 7 at least. I've got a stash of neo magnets leftover from my free energy generator build that I can use 

Devin those are simply the holders for my combo squares. I've never liked the ones that hold them horizontally. I saw these in a Woodsmith magazine a while back and because they look cool decided that is the way to go. Basically there is a kerf that the rule slides into which holds them securely in place. 
.


----------



## drsurfrat

Nathan, do you retract the blades before hanging, or is there enough of a gap not to rub on the blade? I try not to ever rest my planes on their soles, I put them in a drawer on their side. Being in a drawer seems to keep oxidation down, too, but much less convenient than on a wall.


----------



## Lazyman

Mike, I just hung them yesterday but I don't expect to have to retract the blade. There is enough room for them to slide in and out without the blade hitting and they don't really rest with any pressure on the blade. Just like my cast iron tables on my table and band saws, I regularly rub a little paste wax on any exposed surfaces to cut down on oxidation and rust. I will occasionally rub some paste wax on the iron and cap after sharpening too, especially if I had to dunk it in water to cool it on my belt sharpener. I was keeping them in a drawer but the only drawer I have large enough to hold them was not convenient, which often led to them laying around. With the other tools I have on the wall, I find that I more frequently put them back instead of laying them down on the bench so I hope to continue that with these planes too. It should be more convenient all the way around.

EDIT: If I find that the edge hits, I may just carve a groove there to give it some clearance.


----------



## Mosquito

Worst case scenario, eventually the blade will make its own clearance anyway. It's just wood, after all


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> …eventually the blade will make its own clearance anyway. It s just wood, after all
> 
> - Mosquito


^ This.


----------



## controlfreak

I don't stress over the sole down or on its side argument. Unless the surface is harder than wood I place on the sole. I sharpen or hone the iron after heavy use anyway.


----------



## drsurfrat

i don't stress by any measure, but i have lots of examples of higher corrosion of bare metal when held against other surfaces. for regular users, no issue, but some sit for a while depending on the project. on their sides, with my habit of putting them on their sides, i don't ding the edge or affect the sole.
i recently switched from 3in1 oil to paste wax, and that seems a little more enduring.


----------



## corelz125

Kenny There's a #7 for sale at Jim empty your bank account Bode's website. You might want to start playing Powerball to buy it though.


----------



## HokieKen

There's also a Fulton 3708 on Ebay that I'm pondering Corelz. The opening bid is more than I'd like to pay but, if it doesn't get any bids, I might go for it…


----------



## Lazyman

There is also a BIN Fulton 3708 on ebay too for twice as much.


----------



## corelz125

The buy it now is not that bad of a price. That would be a bargain if you get it at that auction price.


----------



## HokieKen

I'd rather see it for less than $100, especially with the broken tote. That same plane went unsold last week with a $150 opening bid. I'm still not convinced it's worth the min bid now.


----------



## Lazyman

If they've already had it out there with no bids before, I would contact the seller and offer less.


----------



## HokieKen

Well, I let it go again. Maybe he'll list it in my range next time…


----------



## corelz125

I saw that Kenny almost made me wanna throw a bid out there for it.


----------



## HokieKen

I wouldn't have been mad Corelz ;-) I'd really rather find one with a good knob and tote. At the right price, I'd do the repairs though.


----------



## Lazyman

When I saw no bids I just offered them $50 plus shipping. It should be here by Wednesday. JK ;-)


----------



## MikeB_UK

Ah crap, you know that thing when you are on ebay while drinking and see something going for much less than it's worth that you don't really need and can't fit anywhere - 16 hours to be outbid.


----------



## DevinT

Yeah, I've been there. I'm tracking such an item right now, I can't believe it's so cheap given its provenance.

/me checks to see if there was a bid on that item-hopefully we're not vying for the same item

Damn, 3 bids since 1h ago. Pretty sure we're not looking at the same item though because there's 4d 22h left on the item I'm looking at.


----------



## DevinT

MikeB, woah, I think I just found it. Wow, I can't believe it. You're going to be really lucky if you get it. I won't compete with you on it, but wow, that's an amazing price for something I wouldn't mind having myself.


----------



## Lazyman

Weill Kenny, it resisted at $119.


----------



## bandit571

So….after this has been resawn….how does one plane it smooth and flat, with a bum right knee?









Bad enough, having to drive with it using the D8 rip saw…...


----------



## DevinT

Maybe take a 2×4 and clamp the leg of a chair to the leg of the bench and plane sitting down. When you push the plane the chair will want to slide backward but it can't because it is effectively clamped to the bench.


----------



## Lazyman

Make yourself a peg leg, Bandit?


----------



## HokieKen

> Weill Kenny, it resisted at $119.
> 
> - Lazyman


Ugh. That's still a little high for my taste. We'll see how I feel by the end of this go round.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> So….after this has been resawn….how does one plane it smooth and flat, with a bum right knee?


If I'm having a bad knee day and need to plane sitting down, I use a pull-plane (Indonesian) coming toward the front of my bench. I can brace my right hip against the front of the bench, and kinda work sideways, pulling mostly with my right arm, and steering a bit with the left. It's not great, but with the plane set for a thin, finishing cut, I can make slow but steady progress.

I can also do that with a western plane, pulling on the front knob, but the Indonesian plane works a lot better. It's designed to be pulled. A block plane will also work if I'm working on small pieces.

If I've got a lot of work to do because I had a wavy resaw, I generally will go to the belt sander and let the machine do most of the work.


----------



## Lazyman

Bandit, maybe a roman work bench would help with the knee?










Devin, this might be an option with your space limitations too.


----------



## DavePolaschek

So, got a question about the Secret Santa…

If a guy were to have a functioning plane that qualifies, but which is in kinda rough shape, is it too late in the year to tear it apart to do a complete rebuild and refurb done in time to ship it off to someone else by Christmas? Theoretically speaking, of course.

Asking for a friend.


----------



## DevinT

I would say go for it, but I don't know who is doing the rehab or how busy they are. Take stock of potential interrupts when gauging your response to your friend. Also, does it have to be "all or nothing?" Or could there be a partial restoration? I would probably plan time for one restorative action that could stand on its own and if I have time for the next, then re-evaluate doing more. A sort of measured response because we often experience the unfortunate occurrence of interrupts.


----------



## Lazyman

A retired guy like you, Dave? Shouldn't take more than a week. Seriously, I've taken a couple of piles of rust and turned them into pretty nice users in just a few days. On one I even made a *********************************** sandblaster first to completely strip and repaint it and it still took less than a weeks worth of work and certainly less than 2 weeks elapsed time.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Well, it's functioning, so if you've got Kenny's name it's good to go.

Otherwise - If your friend is retired and doesn't, for a random example, have to make bookcases anymore - then there should be plenty of time.


----------



## MikeB_UK

New toy arrived, well, new to me obviously

Ward iron, dovetailed sole, no makers marks on the plane, shape looks like a mathieson, but I'm not too worried.









It's obviously been franken-planed a bit over the years.

Weirdest addition is an adjuster for the iron
Might have been designed for a different iron, but it doesn't work worth a damn so it's out, leaving me with a very useable infill smoother.



















The iron is going to take a bit of work on oilstones, I should probably get a diamond plate for rough shaping.


----------



## MikeB_UK

My mistake on the iron - it's actually Thomas Wales & Sons









Bit more of a camber on the iron than I'd have on a smoother, but a few sharpenings will sort that out.


----------



## HokieKen

> So, got a question about the Secret Santa…
> 
> If a guy were to have a functioning plane that qualifies, but which is in kinda rough shape, is it too late in the year to tear it apart to do a complete rebuild and refurb done in time to ship it off to someone else by Christmas? Theoretically speaking, of course.
> 
> Asking for a friend.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


That's up to said friend to decide I guess ;-) I would side with Nathan though, I can't see a refurb taking more than a week unless you have to fabricate parts. Especially for a retired fella ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

That seems like a good opportunity to leave a *reminder about the Secret Santa Exchange*  If you signed up, don't forget! Rules are here if you need a refresher.


----------



## HokieKen

Mike, than infill is a beauty!


----------



## HokieKen

What am I missing?? This MF 56 block plane got bid up to $108.50 yesterday. These planes in good condition can be had for $30-50 easily on Ebay. Granted this one looks prettier than most but it's nothing spectacular. There was a NIB #56 on Ebay sometime back that was brand new in the original box that sold for less than $100…

So did this seller draw this kind of payout simply by cleaning the plane up and taking nice pictures? His description was quite good too and he explained how the plane had been fettled and how the blade had been honed. I wasn't watching this plane until I saw it had a lot of bids with a good bit of time left.

Unless I just missed something special, this looks like a good lesson on how it pays to spend a few extra minutes on your Ebay/CL/FB listing


----------



## Mosquito

Don't underestimate the power of good pictures… Especially when you can't get hands on before buying


----------



## controlfreak

Thanks for reposting the link to the rules. I have some candidates that I have bought over time and one that I set a $40 top max bid that I won but I am still kind of looking too. One thing for sure is I "need" a grinder buffer thingy so does anyone have a recommendation. This will be one of those "Honey I had to buy it because of that Secret Santa Exchange" things. What good is committing to something if it doesn't force you to get a tool out of it?


----------



## HokieKen

Any old 6" bench grinder works IMO CF. A variable speed one is a nice plus but far from a necessity.


----------



## Notw

I bought a 6" porter cable one and haven't been thrilled with it, have a wire wheel on one side and buffing wheel on the other. it doesn't take much pressure to bog the motor down


----------



## Notw

A while back Drsurfrat was kind enough to sent me a small squirrel plane (thank you again). It had a wonderful patina that I had fully anticipated leaving alone. But one day in the shop the brass called out to me asking to shine and I couldn't resist it.

Before, beautiful patina









After, all shiny


----------



## drsurfrat

That is great, SO much nicer.

Is it useful? If I remember, the throat was pretty wide.


----------



## corelz125

Nice shine you have there notw


----------



## Notw

> That is great, SO much nicer.
> 
> Is it useful? If I remember, the throat was pretty wide.
> 
> - drsurfrat


It really is nice to use, the tail fits my hand perfect. I feel like i have a great grip on it when using it


----------



## DevinT

Oh man, what a transformation! That makes me rethink leaving the patina on great grandfather's planes


----------



## donwilwol

> Thanks for reposting the link to the rules. I have some candidates that I have bought over time and one that I set a $40 top max bid that I won but I am still kind of looking too. One thing for sure is I "need" a grinder buffer thingy so does anyone have a recommendation. This will be one of those "Honey I had to buy it because of that Secret Santa Exchange" things. What good is committing to something if it doesn t force you to get a tool out of it?
> 
> - controlfreak


I find electric motors at yard and garage sales or flee markets. Usually $10 or less. Adapters are cheap.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I saw an ad for: an antique military toilet. Seller says he doesn't want to damage the patina so he will let the new owner clean it. Uh, no.

You did good on that little plane Notw


----------



## DavePolaschek

> That s up to said friend to decide I guess ;-) I would side with Nathan though, I can t see a refurb taking more than a week unless you have to fabricate parts. Especially for a retired fella ;-)


Well, that's just it. It doesn't need any parts to work today. But if um, my friend takes it apart, I'm guessing there's at least one part that will need replacing. And which won't be easy to find, so some fabrication will probably end up happening.


----------



## drsurfrat

ONLY SPEAKING FOR ME, I would not want just a functioning plane (I have some of those), nor would I want one just rebuilt (I like doing that myself), but I'd want one from you that was Polaschek'd, something personalized.

Or a Stanley No 1.


----------



## HokieKen

You could always gift aRARE 21.5 inch Millers Falls Number 7

That is a REALLY rare one


----------



## corelz125

That one got you excited at first Kenny didn't it when you got the notification a MF#7 was just listed


----------



## KentInOttawa

> You could always gift aRARE 21.5 inch Millers Falls Number 7
> 
> That is a REALLY rare one
> 
> - HokieKen


It's even more rare than you can imagine. The ad states: "RARE 21 1/2' millers falls no 7 metal wood plane". That's a 21.5 FOOT No 7!


----------



## HokieKen

I don't get too excited about #7's being listed until I see the listing Corelz. 95% of the time it's a #07 skewed block plane so I don't get my hopes up. I was kinda excited because around the same time that one was listed, a Fulton 3708 went up with a low opening bid. But the body on that guy is in pretty bad shape and beyond repair so that balloon burst pretty quick too…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hope my secret santa recipient isn't dead-set on a glistening refurb, because I just don't do those. It'll be a great tool that is fully functional, tuned and ready to go. One that is not terribly common but is useful for many. Got it right at the $ limit, too.


----------



## HokieKen

Ditto Smitty. My offering is relatively uncommon so I don't intend to take any efforts towards making it pretty aside from cleaning it up. My recipient is welcome to do so if they wish but I believe this one is best left in as-found condition (with the exception of fabricating a couple of missing parts…).


----------



## bandit571

My recipient will be getting a pair…a smoother and a jack in the Brand name he favours. Just need a "Mail-by" date…....


----------



## drsurfrat

> My recipient will be getting a pair…a smoother and a jack in the Brand name he favours. Just need a "Mail-by" date…....
> - bandit571


I was wondering too, but Kenny's shipping 'rules' said after Thanksgiving, but well before Christmas.


----------



## DevinT

I snagged the plane for my recipient for the exact $ limit and I did months of research stalking them to find out what their brand was and what they were missing. I may not do much to it other than make it usable because it's pretty old but in great shape minus a huge nick in the blade I have to grind out


----------



## corelz125

Bandit I'll take a Union X4 and X5. Kenny any MF 07 come up under $50?


----------



## HokieKen

Y'all can ship at will. I just suggested waiting until after Thanksgiving to keep the "Secret Santa" in the general neighborhood as Christmas. But if you're ready and want to ship, be my guest 



> ... Kenny any MF 07 come up under $50?
> 
> - corelz125


Nope. Not that I recall ever seeing. If you can land a complete one for <$80 you've done really well. They sell for well north of $50 regularly with a missing side plate. There's one listed now for a low opening bid that has no lever cap or blade. If anyone needed the side plate, it would be a great donor.


----------



## donwilwol

> My recipient will be getting a pair…a smoother and a jack in the Brand name he favours. Just need a "Mail-by" date…....
> - bandit571
> 
> I was wondering too, but Kenny s shipping rules said after Thanksgiving, but well before Christmas.
> 
> - drsurfrat


With USPS, there is no such thing as after Thanksgiving, but well before Christmas!


----------



## donwilwol

A routine android double post!


----------



## DevinT

So, how's about a little infill for breakfast?

*EDIT*: I Just realized it's nearly the exact plane that is at the top of this forum thread!


----------



## MikeB_UK

That one's had such a hard life it makes mine look good 

I keep toying with the idea of getting a kit-, but by the time the shipping goes on I could just buy a norris for that.


----------



## Mosquito

> I snagged the plane for my recipient for the exact $ limit and I did months of research stalking them to find out what their brand was and what they were missing. I may not do much to it other than make it usable because it's pretty old but in great shape minus a huge nick in the blade I have to grind out
> 
> - DevinT


Did you end up getting a grinder?

I've still got that hand crank one, and even found the old grinding stone that came with it. In the same box as the millers falls, and pair of keen kitted k5s I thought I had sold after not finding them for 5 years lol


----------



## controlfreak

Going to get a grinder today. I am guessing it will come with some wheels so maybe I will get a brass and steel wire wheel to go with.

I feel your pain Mos, I have been looking for my wooden mallet for a month now.


----------



## HokieKen

> Going to get a grinder today. I am guessing it will come with some wheels so maybe I will get a brass and steel wire wheel to go with.
> 
> I feel your pain Mos, I have been looking for my wooden mallet for a month now.
> 
> - controlfreak


It should come with wheels. Most often the wheels are too coarse for fine work but they'll do for hogging off material. I would recommend grabbing a wire wheel with fairly small wire size and a cotton buffing wheel (I prefer the stitched ones) and some green polishing compound. That will do for 90% of restoration and polishing chores.

And somebody probably won't like me saying this but, take the wheel guards off as soon as you take that thing out of the box. Especially if you are going to use it for brushing and buffing. They are much more of a hazard than a safeguard when working with small parts. Personally, I don't even like them for general grinding chores.


----------



## corelz125

Things like that CF you need to have multiples of. Like tape measures I need at least 3 of them 1 or 2 always seem to walk away.


----------



## DevinT

> I snagged the plane for my recipient for the exact $ limit and I did months of research stalking them to find out what their brand was and what they were missing. I may not do much to it other than make it usable because it's pretty old but in great shape minus a huge nick in the blade I have to grind out
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> Did you end up getting a grinder?
> 
> I ve still got that hand crank one, and even found the old grinding stone that came with it. In the same box as the millers falls, and pair of keen kitted k5s I thought I had sold after not finding them for 5 years lol
> 
> - Mosquito


YES! Still interested. What did we agree on? Can switch to PM if you like.


----------



## DevinT

> Things like that CF you need to have multiples of. Like tape measures I need at least 3 of them 1 or 2 always seem to walk away.
> 
> - corelz125


I keep my favorite tape measure locked up in my toolbox for this reason. Milwaukee Stud with 25' standout.


----------



## Ocelot

My first type 8, in green. This was after initial cleanup.


----------



## Ocelot

Not original iron. It's a type 16 iron.
Was like this when I bought it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ My daily driver No. 5 sports a knob and tote with very similar green paint!


----------



## bandit571

Hercules?


----------



## corelz125

Hercules was made by Sargent that looks an after market paint job.


----------



## Ocelot

It's a Stanley Bailey no 5, type 8 . Somebody spray painted it.

I'll get the rest of the green off next go-round.


----------



## controlfreak

> Things like that CF you need to have multiples of. Like tape measures I need at least 3 of them 1 or 2 always seem to walk away.
> 
> - corelz125


I did that with my 6' Milwaukee tape measures, I just kept buying until I always had one in reach. Now there are three in the same spot forever more. It has been side that two things that will become inseparable are two umbrellas so you will always have one at work and one at home.


----------



## controlfreak

> It should come with wheels. Most often the wheels are too coarse for fine work but they ll do for hogging off material. I would recommend grabbing a wire wheel with fairly small wire size and a cotton buffing wheel (I prefer the stitched ones) and some green polishing compound. That will do for 90% of restoration and polishing chores.
> 
> And somebody probably won t like me saying this but, take the wheel guards off as soon as you take that thing out of the box. Especially if you are going to use it for brushing and buffing. They are much more of a hazard than a safeguard when working with small parts. Personally, I don t even like them for general grinding chores.
> 
> - HokieKen


Too funny, I bought a Bauer at HF. Wheel guards are off and I bought a steel wire wheel, brass wire wheel and a stitched cloth wheel before reading your post. The wheels are thinner than the stones so what do you use for spacers? I rooted around the junk drawer for some washers but no luck on the size needed. I then sat down to watch the Clemson - Georgia Tech game and had no idea it would take six hours to complete.


----------



## HokieKen

Did the stitched cotton wheel not come with a domed washer to space it out CF? I thought they came with one but maybe not. You can use most anything to take up the space. Stack up some 1/2" washers.


----------



## HokieKen

I had pretty much convinced myself to drop the $120 for that Fulton 3708. Just looked and somebody finally bid on it. It took some self-convincing to come around to $120, I don't think I'm gonna bid it up any higher. They can have it :-(


----------



## HokieKen

All yours Corelz


----------



## HokieKen

Question for the brain trust on a tote repair:

I'm plugging away on my #24 restoration and one of the major flaws was a busted horn on the tote:









So I cut a piece of Cocobolo that looked to be a decent color match based on the already milled faces and epoxied it on:









But, after a little bandsaw work and belt grinding to rough shape, it's an atrocious match as far as color…









It's got a lot of the pinkish-reddish color rather than the brownish-orangish of the tote. Cocobolo darkens in color with time (as evidenced by the milled face fooling me so thoroughly) but in my experience, the colors like the repair piece I used tend to a deep red color while the tote is a deep brown color.

So, I'm not convinced that this repair is ever going to blend like I want it to. So, questions are:


Anyone have experience staining or dying Cocobolo? In the past, I've used gel stains to darken repaired sections to better match the original wood but never on anything as oily as this.
Think it's going to darken to match pretty closely and I should just leave it alone?
Think it's never going to blend well and I should either start over on the repair or just make a whole new tote and stick this one in the spare parts?
Other?


----------



## RWE

> Question for the brain trust on a tote repair:
> 
> I m plugging away on my #24 restoration and one of the major flaws was a busted horn on the tote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut a piece of Cocobolo that looked to be a decent color match based on the already milled faces and epoxied it on:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, after a little bandsaw work and belt grinding to rough shape, it s an atrocious match as far as color…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It s got a lot of the pinkish-reddish color rather than the brownish-orangish of the tote. Cocobolo darkens in color with time (as evidenced by the milled face fooling me so thoroughly) but in my experience, the colors like the repair piece I used tend to a deep red color while the tote is a deep brown color.
> 
> So, I m not convinced that this repair is ever going to blend like I want it to. So, questions are:
> 
> 
> Anyone have experience staining or dying Cocobolo? In the past, I ve used gel stains to darken repaired sections to better match the original wood but never on anything as oily as this.
> Think it s going to darken to match pretty closely and I should just leave it alone?
> Think it s never going to blend well and I should either start over on the repair or just make a whole new tote and stick this one in the spare parts?
> Other?
> 
> - HokieKen


I am working on some saw handles and plane totes. Bob Summerfield had recommended that I use Easy Off oven cleaner on saw handles to get off the old finish. I have done that several times now on saw handles. Works well. You put it on for 10 or 15 minutes, wash it off with water, then let it dry for a day or so, rinse and repeat until the finish is gone. It saves the sanding that seems to mess up the finish and takes so much time.

To make repairs match, he recommended using Oxalic acid to get the repaired handle/tote bleached to the same level of base natural color. Then use stain or dye to blend in the two parts and build up the finish after you have the whole thing somewhat matched in color.

So what I like about this is that the Easy Off saves so much work and works very well. Then the Oxalic acid gives you a better chance to stain/dye the handle/tote and get a good match. Summerfi does good work as you know, so I figure these practices are all that.


----------



## HokieKen

Good advice RWE. And definitely a reputable source for it  I've never tried oven cleaner to remove the finish. I'll have to give that a try sometime. I usually scrub it down with lacquer cleaner and then sand it down which is what I did here.

I would actually prefer not to lighten the color of the existing tote. Or change it in any way for that matter. It's a lovely deep deep brown with some lighter brown splattered in for some character  It also matches the knob on this plane very well so I'd like to keep them the same.

Dying the repair piece is certainly an option. I'm just not sure how well Cocobolo will take dye being so oily?


----------



## RWE

Cocobolo may be more interesting, but I have been surprised by how much color comes back after using the Oxalic acid and then putting on some oil or stain. Whitish, clear looking wood seems to spring back with a lot of color.

Find you a piece of cocobolo to run an experiment on.

I think the handles I have done were Apple and Beech.

I will never sand another handle, at least not as the only option, after using the Easy Off. Don't get the wimpy stuff now for modern ovens (I guess the modern ovens did not keep score, they were all winners), get the old fashioned strong Easy Off, seems there are two or three varieties of Easy Off to be found now.

Mix up a paste of the Oxalic acid and coat your work with it. Leave it for a while, 10-30 minutes. Like the Easy Off, wash it off, let it dry a day and do it again if necessary. I got my Oxalic acid on Amazon.


----------



## Lazyman

Did you try just putting it or a cutoff out in the sun for a few hours (days?) to see what affect that has on the color? Many woods darken with UV exposure. I've not done that with cocobolor but I have with a few others to sort of pre-age them before finishing.


----------



## Lazyman

That's weird. Clicked post and everything just disappeared. I guess I will type it again. And there it is. I guess I should have refreshed a few more times.

Deleting the repost


----------



## controlfreak

> Did the stitched cotton wheel not come with a domed washer to space it out CF? I thought they came with one but maybe not. You can use most anything to take up the space. Stack up some 1/2" washers.
> 
> - HokieKen


Went to the Borg to stock up on washers while I was waiting on the grass to dry out. Also bought a can of Vienna Bites at the dollar store just for the can to try Paul Sellers rag in can thing. Looks like I could almost eat them too except for the Corn Syrup that got added but still only 1g carb. Don't ask me how many carbs beer has.

Though loss you had there Saturday Kenny.


----------



## HokieKen

A good win for the Tigers CF. The score in our game made it look better than it was. We pretty much slept through the first 3-1/2 quarters. Still almost pulled it out of our butts though. It was a damn exciting 3 minutes at the end but the sad truth is they outplayed us by a mile. It's hard to believe the team yesterday was even the same team I watched the first two weeks. Ugh.


----------



## HokieKen

Nathan, I was thinking I'd go ahead and finish shaping the repair then sit it out in the sun for a couple of days and see how it looks. Cocobolo definitely oxidizes but it seems to take a while. I'm not sure how much direct sun will accelerate the process but there's one way to find out!


----------



## corelz125

Looking for a car payment for that 24 Kenny.


----------



## Ocelot

1939 Stanley Bailey no 4 that I stole from drsurfrat.

I just did the blade and chipbreaker.


----------



## Ocelot

It's sitting on cherry, but the shavings are pine.


----------



## HokieKen

> Looking for a car payment for that 24 Kenny.
> 
> - corelz125


I've noticed the past several months that there is a lot of Millers Falls stuff being listed out of the UK. And it's not all the same seller either. Not sure why vintage MF tools got so plentiful in England all of the sudden… But yeah, that price is steep for that plane. Even if the prices are good though, shipping tends to make stuff coming across the pond a no-go anyway.


----------



## HokieKen

> 1939 Stanley Bailey no 5 that I stole from drsurfrat.
> 
> ...
> 
> - Ocelot


That's the shortest #5 I've ever seen. But if it can peel pine shavings off a cherry board, it's a keeper!

;-)


----------



## HokieKen

I broke down and put a $129 bid on that Fulton plane but it wasn't enough. Oh well, c'est la vie.


----------



## Ocelot

> 1939 Stanley Bailey no 4 that I stole from drsurfrat.
> 
> ...
> 
> - Ocelot
> 
> That s the shortest #4 I ve ever seen. But if it can peel pine shavings off a cherry board, it s a keeper!
> 
> ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Hmmm


----------



## corelz125

The shipping than add tax the total adds up fast. EBay can be a strange thing. Tgat 3708 went last week with no bids then got 2 this week.


----------



## donwilwol

> Question for the brain trust on a tote repair:
> 
> I m plugging away on my #24 restoration and one of the major flaws was a busted horn on the tote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut a piece of Cocobolo that looked to be a decent color match based on the already milled faces and epoxied it on:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, after a little bandsaw work and belt grinding to rough shape, it s an atrocious match as far as color…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It s got a lot of the pinkish-reddish color rather than the brownish-orangish of the tote. Cocobolo darkens in color with time (as evidenced by the milled face fooling me so thoroughly) but in my experience, the colors like the repair piece I used tend to a deep red color while the tote is a deep brown color.
> 
> So, I m not convinced that this repair is ever going to blend like I want it to. So, questions are:
> 
> 
> Anyone have experience staining or dying Cocobolo? In the past, I ve used gel stains to darken repaired sections to better match the original wood but never on anything as oily as this.
> Think it s going to darken to match pretty closely and I should just leave it alone?
> Think it s never going to blend well and I should either start over on the repair or just make a whole new tote and stick this one in the spare parts?
> Other?
> 
> - HokieKen


Here is what I would try. Lightly burn the repair and down about 1/4 of the way. Then sand and feather it in.


----------



## HokieKen

I was wondering about taking a torch to it Don. I think I'll test a cutoff of this wood to see how it behaves.


----------



## BlasterStumps

You're trying too hard to match that wood Kenny. You should just grab a piece of blood wood or how about white oak, yeah, there ya go, white oak! : )


----------



## HokieKen

Lol. I actually have a piece of Ironwood that's a really good match. If nothing else pans out, that's plan B.


----------



## donwilwol

> Lol. I actually have a piece of Ironwood that's a really good match. If nothing else pans out, that's plan B.
> 
> - HokieKen


which ironwood?


----------



## HokieKen

Desert Ironwood Don. If that's what you're asking? Stuff that grows in AZ.


----------



## donwilwol

That was it. There are several known as ironwood, but that's the real stuff. Makes great knife scales to.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, it's one of my favorites to work with Don. Great for turning too 

It looks like I'm gonna be okay on this Cocobolo though. A couple of days laying outside, even in overcast weather, indicates it's headed in the right direction.


----------



## Lazyman

Wow, in the picture, that looks like a perfect match.


----------



## HokieKen

It doesn't show well in the picture Nathan but it's still pretty red by comparison. But it darkened enough that the tone is getting pretty even now. I think once I get it shaped and get some finish on the whole thing it'll blend in pretty well. It's probably never going to be an invisible repair but I don't think it'll stick out like a sore thumb either.

On a side note related to my work on that tote… I've had a sensitivity to Bolivian Rosewood and East Indian Rosewood for a couple of years now where it gives me a rash and makes me itchy for a week or two. Last time I turned it, it also made my eyes swell up. I was just glad I could work Cocobolo without such issues. Well guess what? No rash and no eyes swollen but, my forearms and hands have been itchy as hell all week after some bandsawing and belt grinding that little piece over the weekend. Looks like it's long sleeves, gloves and a respirator for Cocobolo too from now on…


----------



## HokieKen

Anybody got a recommendation for a handle maker's rasp that won't break the bank? Gramercy makes one in two cuts but they're out of stock and have been for some time now. And at $55 each, they're the cheapest I've seen but still not exactly a bargain.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I'm pretty partial to the Gramercy one myself, Kenny, but there's an iwasaki curved rasp that seems to be available from multiple vendors that I've found useful. I don't like it as much as the Gramercy, but it's cheaper, so that may appeal to you.

Edited to add, I have the coarser Gramercy, but have been back-ordered on the fine one for a while now (months). My suggestion is to place an order with TFWW to get into the queue, though. You can always cancel later if you decide you don't want to wait it out.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I saw that Iwasaki Dave but it zigged when it shoulda zagged (curved the wrong way) and I've never liked the file teeth like that for detail work in wood.

I did just remember I bought this Corradi Sculptor's Rasp last year and have only used it twice I think. It should do the job just fine for shaping this horn. I'm still keeping the Gramercy on my watchlist though.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Yeah. The iwasaki isn't my fave, but it's available.

McMaster is out of their Nicholson curved rasp, which wasn't very good in the first place.

The corradi is shorter than I'd like, and more expensive than I'd have thought you'd go for. Huh!


----------



## HokieKen

When I bought the Corradi, I thought it would get used a lot more than it has so far. It's still a lot of bang for the buck though with two different cuts and the versatile geometry. I don't regret the purchase, just need to put it to use more often


----------



## donwilwol

> Anybody got a recommendation for a handle maker s rasp that won t break the bank? Gramercy makes one in two cuts but they re out of stock and have been for some time now. And at $55 each, they re the cheapest I ve seen but still not exactly a bargain.
> 
> - HokieKen


I like my Gramercy. It's one of the few I've paid up for and glad I did. I don't have any thing else that compares. I have the Iwasaki ( a couple actually) and they're ok for a lot of stuff, bit not handle making. I use the occasionally on bows, but not that often.


----------



## theoldfart

I have both Gramercy's. Though they do not get out very often, when they do it's a good time.


----------



## Lazyman

Good thing for me the Gramercy are not available. I would already have one in my shopping cart and entering my credit card information and I don't even need one right now.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree Nathan, if it was in stock right now, I'd buy one.


----------



## bandit571

Makes me glad I already have a couple Dremels…...the contour sander and a flex-shaft….


----------



## controlfreak

So true Nathen, when I see a quality tool with good feed back I am always tempted to order up.


----------



## MikeB_UK

For detail and tight curves I got some hand stitched Renzo Milani stone carving rifflers.

Closer to your Corradi than a curved rasp - Good for detail work though.


----------



## HokieKen

I worked on this briefly last night using the Corradi. Just to shape the countour in the transition from the existing tote into the repair section.


















The geometry is great on the rasp but the handle is less than ideal. I'm definitely keeping a handle maker's rasp on my wishlist. The fine end on the Corradi worked great but a gentler curve and a real handle would have been nice on the coarse end.

And as you can see, removing material exposed another layer of horribly mismatched color…


----------



## HokieKen

This is just cruel and unusual…


----------



## HokieKen

Anybody know what this is about?


----------



## donwilwol

> Anybody know what this is about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


Been going on for a while. I have serious doubts


----------



## HokieKen

I knew about Union resurrecting. I was just curious exactly what that tool is?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Kenny,

Here's the iwasaki that's curved the right way. Turdy bux.

I've also got a Stanley SurForm, which is surprisingly less horrible than expected. Five bux.

At a hunner-twenny, the Auriou is probably out of your range.

But at seventy, the auriou ironing rasp might work for you…

All seem to be in stock. Heck, you can almost drive to Highland Woodworking, can't you?


----------



## Johnny7

> I knew about Union resurrecting. I was just curious exactly what that tool is?
> 
> - HokieKen


Sure looks like a sliding t-bevel. Think Stanley 18.


----------



## DevinT

I have to admit the new Union X planes look really nice. Looks to be adjustable mouth with a nice knurled nut between the knob and boss with deep knurling on the depth adjuster wheel too.


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny,
> 
> Here's the iwasaki that's curved the right way. Turdy bux.
> 
> I've also got a Stanley SurForm, which is surprisingly less horrible than expected. Five bux.
> 
> At a hunner-twenny, the Auriou is probably out of your range.
> 
> But at seventy, the auriou ironing rasp might work for you…
> 
> All seem to be in stock. Heck, you can almost drive to Highland Woodworking, can't you?
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


The Iwasaki is still curved the wrong way Dave. As is the Auriou. I would want one like the Gramercy that is toothed on the inside (concave) rather than the outside like those are. I could see a usefulness to those too but just not for what I want to do in this particular case.

I have SurForm. Mine is more like a block plane though. I also have a Millers Falls Planer-File which is the same thing but bigger. I haven't actually used the Millers Falls but I've used the Stanley a bunch over the years. It's a damn good tool for fast removal and good control. I tend to turn to my Shinto rasp more often these days but I won't be throwing my SurForm away anytime soon 

And I can drive anywhere with land access to CONUS but 7 hours is a bit further than I'm liable to drive for a rasp ;-) Unless I can convince my wife it's a good weekend motorcycle trip….


----------



## HokieKen

> I knew about Union resurrecting. I was just curious exactly what that tool is?
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> Sure looks like a sliding t-bevel. Think Stanley 18.
> 
> - Johnny7


That rings true Johnny! I guess I was off on scale and looking at it as plane-sized. I think you're on the right track though


----------



## KentInOttawa

I've been watching some Gordon Addison videos lately. He's been restoring the knobs and totes on hand planes and he has some interesting techniques. He certainly gets good results. He generally advocates rasps and files in general, but the one tool that he has recommended is a vintage Stanley 297 surform rasp. Modern versions (#21-297) are still available.










I've attempted to use my 6" Stanley surform "pocket plane", but have never had great results; the damned thing just wants to dig in and stop or, alternatively, just skate across the surface making scratches occasionally. Grrrr….


----------



## donwilwol

> I knew about Union resurrecting. I was just curious exactly what that tool is?
> 
> - HokieKen


He started with the sliding bevel before the x planes.


----------



## Lazyman

I like these Microplane shaping rasps. The sets seem to be hard to find now but the large handled individual ones appear to be available at microplane.com.under woodworking.


----------



## bandit571

Been using sanding drums on my Dremel Flex shaft…


----------



## HokieKen

> I knew about Union resurrecting. I was just curious exactly what that tool is?
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> He started with the sliding bevel before the x planes.
> 
> - Don W


Ahhh. I didn't see anything about them on the site but looking back through his old IG posts, I found em.









Good call J7.


----------



## HokieKen

> I ve been watching some Gordon Addison videos lately. He s been restoring the knobs and totes on hand planes and he has some interesting techniques. He certainly gets good results. ...
> 
> - Kent


I checked out his video on replacing a broken horn Kent. He does do good work and get good results. His process is pretty much the same as mine except I'll use my drill press or mill to open the hole back up rather than using a rotary tool like that. He did fine with the dremel, I'd just be worried about getting it oblong in my hands. Poor dude needs to invest in some better workholding though. Hot glue and squeeze clamps have their place but he spent too much effort fighting with them ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Barn Sale, today ( gotta luv those!) Spent $2….









Both squares are Stanleys..No. 122 and..









No. 501A…a 3" c clamp and that low angle block plane…









Plane is missing the cam arm to lock the cap iron in place…."We haft vays.." 









Wedgie? Need to straighten out the lateral lever a bit. Thinking it is made by Sargent?

Combo Square has it's level and it's Scriber on board..IF I can get to the shop, I might try to rehab some of these?

Lateral lever IS attached to the plane's iron. Adjustable mouth does indeed work….needs a good clean up…

edit to add: upon scraping the iron a bit, discovered this model was THE Firestone SUPREME…underside of the cap iron…is stamped both as a 306 and a 307…I doubt IF I have a replacement cap iron for this plane…


----------



## HokieKen

I don't know if everyone is aware or not but today is Christmas here in Roanoke. It got moved up this year due to covid and daylight savings time. So I got to open my HPOYD Secret Santa gift from DonW 


















Not one but TWO Millers Falls block planes ) One #16 (Stanley 9-1/2) and a #707 (at least I think that's the model…). That's great stuff for me. The 16 is a fantastic plane that I'd be happy to have half a dozen of  And the 707 is one I was missing that will add a splash of color to my lineup.

The Secret Santa swap has officially been kicked off! Thanks Don!!


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I ve been watching some Gordon Addison videos lately. He s been restoring the knobs and totes on hand planes and he has some interesting techniques. He certainly gets good results. ...
> 
> - Kent
> 
> I checked out his video on replacing a broken horn Kent. He does do good work and get good results. His process is pretty much the same as mine except I ll use my drill press or mill to open the hole back up rather than using a rotary tool like that. He did fine with the dremel, I d just be worried about getting it oblong in my hands. Poor dude needs to invest in some better workholding though. Hot glue and squeeze clamps have their place but he spent too much effort fighting with them ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Yeah, I wouldn't get the same results with a Dremel either but it does seem to work for him.


----------



## controlfreak

Damn, I better get busy.


----------



## HokieKen

Me too CF!


----------



## bandit571

Looks like I'll have a 3 plane box to ship out, in about a month…


----------



## HokieKen

Don said he didn't trust the USPS during the holiday season so he shipped early. I can't say I'm upset ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Not so much the time of travel…it is more about how much damage they can do to a box….I'll need to line that flat rate box with 1/4" plywood. Seems they like to toss/kick boxes…a lot. Cast iron don't like such things.


----------



## Mosquito

Well hot damn, I've been waiting on mine… I'll have to get it ready and send it out. Or maybe I should wait 2 weeks, little dude tested positive for Covid this week after an exposure this weekend… Guidelines change so fast I can't remember if they say it's transmissible by surface contact or not anymore lol


----------



## HokieKen

Mini-mos got the 'vid? Sorry to hear that man. Hope it doesn't make him too uncomfortable.

Spray it with Lysol and let er rip ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

> Not so much the time of travel…it is more about how much damage they can do to a box….I ll need to line that flat rate box with 1/4" plywood. Seems they like to toss/kick boxes…a lot. Cast iron don t like such things.
> 
> - bandit571


I agree, I see the same around here. But, New York in general goes to hell in a handbasket as far as shipping times around the holidays. I bought something last December on Ebay and it took nearly 3 weeks to get here. So I understand Don's trepidation…


----------



## corelz125

He's a toddler right Mos? He goes to daycare?


----------



## Mosquito

almost 11 months old corelz, and yes to the daycare (though not since Tuesday, and not for next week either)

So far we all seem to be doing fine. He's got a little runny nose, and had a little cough, but that's been it so far



> Not so much the time of travel…it is more about how much damage they can do to a box….I ll need to line that flat rate box with 1/4" plywood. Seems they like to toss/kick boxes…a lot. Cast iron don t like such things.
> 
> - bandit571


I have done that exactly before. I built a wood box for the #444 fence I was shipping, then put that in a small flat rate box. I think I did similar when I sent Kev some Fales plane parts too. I'll often throw in some pieces that span the length of a box if it's something long like a jointer plane too, try to help the cast iron thing not be the only thing to stop the box bending in half when they do whatever they do lol Even that doesn't always work though… never underestimate the brutality of shipping lol

I recently shipped some fence rails for a tablesaw (along with the fence but that was a separate box). I just built a small wooden box that was just big enough to fit the rails, shrink wrapped it, wrapped it in heavy craft paper, taped it up and shipped them that way (worked great). Managed to keep it under 48" long that way, so shipping via UPS was only around $24.. not bad considering it weighed 17 pounds and was 47" long lol


----------



## HokieKen

Took all of 30 seconds of fettling to get these guys ready to roll


----------



## bandit571

Back out at a barn sale, today…these came home..cost me $2









Of interest here ( besides the M-F made for Craftsman chisel) is that Stanley No. 120









A look under the hood?









But why had the logo under the iron?









"Stanley Rule & Level Co…...has "Made" on one side of those grooves, and "in USA" on the other side of the grooves.

The bevel gauge? Brown Bakelite handle, steel bolt, brass lever….









Blade has been blued, and is stamped " CRAFTSMAN BN"

Not too hateful of a day?


----------



## corelz125

Could of caught it in daycare. My kids got it last year they showed no symptoms at all. Sounds like he's doing ok. As the recipient of that 44 fence I have to say it was one of the best packed items I ever received in the mail.


----------



## HokieKen

I floated a $90 bid on this sucker thinking I was being generous given the condition and was smacked down immediately. They can have it. Got a crack at one corner of the mouth and some deep pitting all over.


----------



## Mosquito

> Could of caught it in daycare. My kids got it last year they showed no symptoms at all. Sounds like he s doing ok. As the recipient of that 44 fence I have to say it was one of the best packed items I ever received in the mail.
> 
> - corelz125


Yeah, we're not so sure on whether it came from daycare or a known exposure on Saturday night. I'm leaning more towards daycare and the Saturday exposure was just a coincidence myself. He was starting to have runny nose and a little cough on Monday already, that's a little too quick from Saturday lol Who knows

Yeah Kenny, that Fulton has been up before, he had it as a buy it now for $250 a few months back I think? Unless I'm thinking of something else


----------



## HokieKen

There's another in much better shape that's up for $250 BIN Mos. It ain't in $250 shape though. I don't think there is one in $250 shape unless it's NIB.


----------



## Mosquito

I would agree, for a Fulton totally.

As an interesting side tid-bit… I ordered two of the same replacement iron from Lee Valley, both were shipped at the same time (same package), but one has a bigger more detailed label with the Veritas in its signature font, texts in both french and english and "Made in Canada".

The second one, has a single language, no veritas, and says Made in China… the made in China one has a coarser grind on it, and still has a burr on the back, where the Canadian made one does not. Wonder if they're outsourcing offshore because of being short supplied, or if that's a new margin booster they're going to be doing


----------



## corelz125

Seems the wee ones handle it the best. Now look what you done did Kenny I seem to be watching all sorts of Fulton 3708s now. If I didn't get a Record 08 recently I might of went for one is the 3708s.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't see why people think the auction for 3708s needs to last for a week and a half?

You can have the Sargent made 3708s Corelz ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

That's bad news Mos :-( I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it's because they just can't keep up with demand right now due to Covid shortages in the supply chain. If they move production to China permanently though, that sucks.


----------



## HokieKen

Color match is crap again…


----------



## DavePolaschek

> I have done that exactly before. I built a wood box for the #444 fence I was shipping, then put that in a small flat rate box. I think I did similar when I sent Kev some Fales plane parts too. I'll often throw in some pieces that span the length of a box if it's something long like a jointer plane too, try to help the cast iron thing not be the only thing to stop the box bending in half when they do whatever they do lol Even that doesn't always work though… never underestimate the brutality of shipping lol


I try to build a box as a bonus for every swap I'm involved in. When I'm on my game, the box fits neatly inside the USPS flat rate box, or leaves room for a couple bonus boards of some kind of offcuts down a side. When I'm off my game, I end up building the box a half inch too big in one dimension, and then have to pay extra for the shipping.

But I don't think I've every had a swap project arrive damaged. Part of why I'm not certain about diving in to a full teardown for the secret Santa is that I figure I need to build a box, too. And this past week I got three days with about 90 minutes of shop time through the whole week. Tomorrow we're putting a coat of oil on all the exterior woodwork on the house. Day of rest my ass.


----------



## corelz125

Thats ok Kenny I already have a Sargent 407.


----------



## Ocelot

> It s a Stanley Bailey no 5, type 8 . Somebody spray painted it.
> 
> I ll get the rest of the green off next go-round.
> 
> - Ocelot


And here it is with jatoba. I never tried to handplane jatoba before.


----------



## controlfreak

> Blade has been blued, and is stamped " CRAFTSMAN BN"
> 
> Not too hateful of a day?
> 
> - bandit571


Bandit I think I have an iron with the "Craftsman BN" on it but what's BN stand for? I kept thinking of Tool Time and Binford Tools.


----------



## donwilwol

> Not so much the time of travel…it is more about how much damage they can do to a box….I ll need to line that flat rate box with 1/4" plywood. Seems they like to toss/kick boxes…a lot. Cast iron don t like such things.
> 
> - bandit571
> 
> I agree, I see the same around here. But, New York in general goes to hell in a handbasket as far as shipping times around the holidays. I bought something last December on Ebay and it took nearly 3 weeks to get here. So I understand Don's trepidation…
> 
> - HokieKen


And holiday shipping rates go into effect on the third. Cost goes up, quality goes down!

And don't get me started on the whole insurance scam thing. I wish I could go to my work place and say, "well you pay me for the job I do, but it'll cost you extra to insure I do it right"!!


----------



## donwilwol

> Not so much the time of travel…it is more about how much damage they can do to a box….I ll need to line that flat rate box with 1/4" plywood. Seems they like to toss/kick boxes…a lot. Cast iron don t like such things.
> 
> - bandit571
> 
> I agree, I see the same around here. But, New York in general goes to hell in a handbasket as far as shipping times around the holidays. I bought something last December on Ebay and it took nearly 3 weeks to get here. So I understand Don's trepidation…
> 
> - HokieKen


And holiday shipping rates go into effect on the third. Cost goes up, quality goes down!

And don't get me started on the whole insurance scam thing. I wish I could go to my work place and say, "well you pay me for the job I do, but it'll cost you extra to insure I do it right"!!


----------



## Mosquito

Kenny, will the repair darken with age and use? Maybe a dark Danish oil or something would help?


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, it darkened up pretty quick just being left in the sun last week. But then I finished shaping it yesterday and exposed the lighter wood again. If sunlight isn't enough, I may try torching it per Don's suggestion.


----------



## Johnny7

> Yeah, it darkened up pretty quick just being left in the sun last week. But then I finished shaping it yesterday and exposed the lighter wood again. If sunlight isn't enough, I may try torching it per Don's suggestion.
> 
> - HokieKen


For a localized area like that, I would use dye. 
It need not be one of those over-priced commercial dyes-dark brown shoe polish works just fine.


----------



## Jim55

> My smallest metal plane and my largest wooden (complete) and most beautiful plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - CFrye


May I please see some more pics of that large wooden plane? I have never seen one quite like it. Do you know who made it.


----------



## HokieKen

Hadn't even thought about shoe polish J7. That sounds like a simple solution and the color would be about right too. I wonder if there are any waxes or other chemicals in shoe polish that might affect finishing though? I intend to go shiny on this plane and either build several coats of wipe-on poly or try my hand at a French polish.


----------



## drsurfrat

Hey Jim55, I recognize that character from Tumbleweeds. One of my favorites was Obsequious Eagle.


----------



## HokieKen

If anyone's interested, there's a MF #10 ending tomorrow morning that has a low opening bid and hasn't seen any action yet. Looks to have some rust problems but nothing a good cleanup and maybe a little lapping on the frog and sole wouldn't rectify. And it's a T2 so it's got the Cocobolo and brass. Just a PSA ;-)


----------



## rad457

Kenny BAD, clicked on the then remembered I already have a #10! Maybe a #11 would look good in the till?


----------



## rad457

> Hadn t even thought about shoe polish J7. That sounds like a simple solution and the color would be about right too. I wonder if there are any waxes or other chemicals in shoe polish that might affect finishing though? I intend to go shiny on this plane and either build several coats of wipe-on poly or try my hand at a French polish.
> 
> - HokieKen


I have used Walnut wood stain to match wood colors, extra coats or longer soaks get it close? 
Bombay Mahogany stain if you want a Red tint.


----------



## HokieKen

#11s don't come along very often Andre so good luck. They pop up once in a while if you're willing to pay for em.

I have used stain on the "tropical hardwood" totes MF used during the war but never on the Cocobolo. I may experiment on a cutoff. I'm just not sure how well the dense, oily wood will take the stain.


----------



## Johnny7

> Hadn t even thought about shoe polish J7. That sounds like a simple solution and the color would be about right too. I wonder if there are any waxes or other chemicals in shoe polish that might affect finishing though? I intend to go shiny on this plane and either build several coats of wipe-on poly or try my hand at a French polish.
> 
> - HokieKen


Let me clarify-I had in mind strictly the kind of product with which you'd dye or color leather.
Those tins of shoe polish typically contain carnauba wax-applying a finish over them would be troublesome, though acetone would remove the wax, leaving the dye.

On the other hand, you could just apply it as is, and consider it dyed and waxed.

As with any finishing schedule, always experiment with a scrap


----------



## Johnny7

.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Those tins of shoe polish typically contain carnauba wax-applying a finish over them would be troublesome, though acetone would remove the wax, leaving the dye.
> 
> - Johnny7


And a whole lotta stuff that you need to be a chemist to understand.


----------



## donwilwol

I use fiebings leather dye (because dye is dye). I put spar varnish over that, then Johnston paste wax.

It's fairly inexpensive, (like $4 if you search) and you experiment with different colors together to get a shade you want.

I use it exclusively on my self bows, but it'll work anywhere there is wood.


----------



## Ocelot

> It s a Stanley Bailey no 5, type 8 . Somebody sprayh painted it.
> 
> I ll get the rest of the green off next go-round.
> 
> - Ocelot
> 
> And here it is with jatoba. I never tried to handplane jatoba before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Ocelot


And actually cocobolo. No curls yet, but it was rough sawn. Tomorrow we'll find out if my hands swell up.


----------



## Lazyman

Kenny, if the the solar aging doesn't quite get you there, I have had pretty good luck using dark walnut Transtint dye to move a wood in the right color direction. Nice thing about Transtint is you can start with a fairly diluted mix (I use alcohol) and just keep building until I get the darkness I want or add a drop of the dye to the mix at a time until I get the color I want.


----------



## Lazyman

> You can have the Sargent made 3708s Corelz ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Is there a telltale to ID the the Sargent vs. the MF made 3708s?


----------



## donwilwol

> Pi
> You can have the Sargent made 3708s Corelz ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> Is there a telltale to ID the the Sargent vs. the MF made 3708s?
> 
> - Lazyman


The easiest way is the lateral, but both follow the respective manufacturer to a t.


----------



## HokieKen

For me, the easiest way to tell in photos is by the depth adjuster nut.

Sargent:









Millers Falls:









Second easiest way for me is to look at the toe of the casting. There is a gentle swell of the casting around the knob that's quite a bit larger than the base of the knob itself:









If you can see the frog, it's plainly evident.

Sargent:









Millers Falls:









Don's right about the lateral although that's hard to see in most pictures in my experience. I believe the Sargent is double folded? The MF will have only one side folded down. The MF will also have the bottom end doubled to create a raised boss to engage the slot in the iron. From what I can tell, the Sargent is just bent up? Don would know better than I.

Finally, when you see a Millers Falls made version, you'll get a euphoric sensation. When you touch it, the heavens will open up and the angels will sing. The sargent just feels like cast iron.


----------



## HokieKen

That #10 I linked yesterday sold for $63 this morning. That's probably the cheapest I've seen a #10 sell for on Ebay. Especially for a type 2. Had I thought to look before I left the house this morning, I probably would have put in a bid on it. Everybody needs three of those…


----------



## rad457

> That #10 I linked yesterday sold for $63 this morning. That s probably the cheapest I ve seen a #10 sell for on Ebay. Especially for a type 2. Had I thought to look before I left the house this morning, I probably would have put in a bid on it. Everybody needs three of those…
> 
> - HokieKen


Thought about that for a Sec. but my 4 1/2" Bailey has a PMV-11 iron in it and is the user already the M.F.s #10 
jus sits there looking pretty! (An the doubling the cost for Shipping, an $ exchange)


----------



## DevinT

On Friday, spouse asked me if I could make a name plaque as a gift for the neighbors. Name was to be of their child that turned 1 last Monday. I went to my wood pile and picked out some nice African Teak that I wasn't going to use for anything else. Just a cutoff I picked up out of the $10/lb bin at MacBeath. Nothing special in the sense that I had another, nicer, piece of the same wood in the same size.

Set it down and it rocks on both faces, severely. This is going to take some work.

Hmm, the piece is slightly larger than my smoothing plane, I guess now's the perfect time to pull out Great Grandpa's Worth brand jack plane (marketed by the Bigelow & Dawes Co of Boston, Mass about 1925; made by Peck, Stowe & Wilcox for Bigelow & Dawes; similar to a ParPlus in style from what I can tell-unlike others which report their "Worth" brand planes looking more like Pexto).

Here it is in the middle between my Stanley #8 and Veritas #4 for comparison. So we can clearly see it (Great Grandpa's "Worth" brand plane) is about a #5 in size. However, we'll see shortly some differences to what I might consider a normal jack plane (I suspect that it is a junior jack-the only "Worth" brand 5 1/4 sized plane I've ever seen).

ASIDE: The 5 1/4 is not only the junior jack but also the Stanley Four Square which was marketed as a household jack plane, only being made from 1923 to 1930. Combine that with the production of Worth planes in 1925, the size and brand certainly dates this plane to that era. 5 1/4 backstory-so it appears we can add Worth to the list already containing Stanley and Ohio Tool as companies that produced this smaller jack plane in the years.










Below we see why this plane would be a good choice for this board; perfect size:










However, that handle needs to be fixed (or so I thought-plane detective Stanley Columbo is on the job):




























I happen to have a replacement tote/knob from 1910-1915 that I think would make Great Grandpa's plane look real nice; salvaged from the old Stanley No 8 (T11) before I put Bubinga handles on it.










Wait, what's this? The handle won't fit?










The boss has a large raised area that won't sit in the small hole on the Stanley handle and of course, everything is jammed up in there so the angle is wrong for the height-so the lateral adjuster is in the way.

OK. So it's starting to make more sense as to why the handle that was on there is in pieces. Let's have a closer look:

First let's stack the old tote that was on the plane over the even older (in-tact) tote:










And vice-versa:










Now wait a minute … I think I see what's going on here …



















Yes, OK, wow, this is no hack job but Great Grandpa did something skillful here.

It appears as though this was a normal tote (forward leaning, tall, small hole for threaded rod, etc.) and Great Grandpa:

1. Cut a section out
2. Made the hole bigger
3. Cut a shim
4. Put a hole in the shim
5. Angled the faces on the shim
6. Re-assembled the plane
7. Shaped the outside of the shim

I mean, wow, but why? Talked with my Dad and we both agree that the age of the plane and size would make it perfect for teaching [my] Grandpa how to plane. That is to say that my great grandfather bought this plane to teach my grandfather.

The handle broke at some time (kids break things) and seeing how these planes were only made in 1925 for a single year, a replacement could not be acquired (certainly, the "Worth" brand planes are seldom talked about and far between; which is not to imply they have great value other than sentimental)

Then Grandpa grew up and with the rest of him, his hands got larger. So the horn was broken off to make it more palatable for an adult hand. Since the handle was shortened, the horn would have dug into an adult hand (I tested this theory).

The plane did not end up un my possession until a few weeks ago when my Dad gave me some of Grandpa's tools (which my Dad did not acquire until the passing of his father). My dad does not use hand planes (but does other kinds of woodwork).

Back to Great Grandpa's (or perhaps Grandpa's) hand plane.

ASIDE: We'll call this Great Grandpa's plane because my Dad said that his Dad said that it was his father's and so it is believed that Great Grandpa bought it to teach Grandpa and it eventually ended up back in his Dad's tools when Grandpa went off to the service. Probably completely forgot about it and/or his Dad converted the handle while his son was gone because he needed a plane to use and it was larger than the transitional he had (which I also have; Dad says there are more planes from great Grandpa to pick up when I go down to visit for Christmas-like a Stanley Defiance jack plane that we are eager to find).

So, I tried to take a shaving with the plane and it refused. Skew? No. Scrub? No. It was all sorts of "nope." It would have nothing to do with this thing called "planing" despite being a plane (well, it looked like one, felt like one, so thought it must be a plane … must be a paper weight).

Next post … let's try to get this thing to take its first shaving in almost 100 years.


----------



## DevinT

OK, so I colored the tip black with Sharpie so I could keep track of my progress. Then I busted out the diamond stone.










Got the blade set in the jig:










After just 60 seconds on the 300 grit side:










60 more seconds:










I could have stopped there, but I already have the angle I want set in the jig, might as well go a little further so that I have a nice registration surface for finding the new primary angle easily:










And now I take it over to the 1000 grit side and work it on the diamonds:










Then I work it on my 16000 grit Shapton at a slightly higher angle to get a polished clean edge (notice the razor-thin mirror-polished leading edge):



















Not shown is the back bevel.

Here are the first shavings it has taken in almost 100 years:


----------



## HokieKen

Very cool to have that piece of family history Devin.


----------



## DevinT

The plane promptly jammed after taking those few shavings. So, I took the chip breaker to the diamond stone and cleaned it up and that problem was fixed. Now it can take a fat honkin' shaving thick-as-cardboard.

Trying to take a thin shaving however is nearly impossible because the depth adjuster and yoke are just plain horrible. To go from advancing the blade to descending, you have to turn the wheel about 5 times (yes, FIVE TIMES before you change the direction of travel on the blade). There is a metric ********************ton of slack (yes, I think that is the correct measurement here).

There is no closing of the mouth-that's OK, can use it as a scrub.

But other issues arise. I think the yoke is bent because the depth adjuster is so far in that I can barely reach it while holding the tote. I basically have to turn the knob with one hand while holding the plane tote in the other.

There is altogether too much tension in the system because as you advance the blade the tension increases. Ascending the blade the tension decreases and I've had the lever cap pop off while raising the blade.

You have to put so much tension on the lever cap to keep it from rotating that it makes depth adjustments nigh impossible.

All of Great Grandpa's planes have RH threaded adjusters so to descend the blade you turn the depth adjuster counter-clockwise. Also, all the blades in Great Grandpa's planes (that I have so-far) have the hole for the chip breaker at the top of the blade. These two differences are just annoyances and don't detract from use, they just catch me off-guard.

I can deal with all these issues, but …

The chatter.

I felt like I was skipping stones. Fresh blade, perfect edge able to shave hairs, but the frog design is horrible that you literally go bouncing toward the end of the stroke when the downward pressure lightens and all that stored pressure against the blade (which flexes, storing energy, due to the poor frog design) gets released, lifting you out of the cut.

While sharpening the blade, I got a real sense of Great Grandpa's skill in preparing a blade. It had a sweet camber and a beautiful angle. It just wasn't maintained by Grandpa (despite the fact that I know Grandpa could form also form a blade-as he made knives out of railroad equipment)-I think Grandpa just had no interest in hand planing so when his dad died, the tool was used and not maintained until it because useless. I also suspect that every time Grandpa picked it up that it was quickly put back down since even when sharp it would bounce in anything but softer woods.

So, ... Great Grandpa probably used it for softer woods (sharp, I can see this being a great user but just not on woods like Teak).

And … I am all but certain now that Grandpa probably broke the handle fighting the dang thing (no, I don't think he through it-this is not ductile iron and would have broken easily if thrown or dropped; I believe that the plane fought the user and the handle broke which was common if the handle was manufactured without care to the grain direction).


----------



## DevinT

> Very cool to have that piece of family history Devin.
> 
> - HokieKen


I am thinking about machining new parts to turn it into a user for my son when he gets older.

I would tell him "this was your great great grandfather's hand plane that was used to teach your great grandfather, and your grandpa gave it to me, and I fixed it up to teach you"


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## HokieKen

Sometimes with a plane like that, you just gotta pass it on for sentimental reasons. Some planes just plain don't work. I'd either make it work within its limits or put it on a shelf. You can certainly machine new parts for it but for me, it would be more satisfying to keep it original, as it was when your great grandfather used it than to frankenplane it. Teach your son with a good plane then pass that one as a keeper rather than a user ;-)


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## DevinT

I think that's a wise approach. Especially with something that was only made for one year and is basically impossible to rehab without machining-which afterward it wouldn't have any connection to the way it was used originally.

You are right that it has greater value in its original state than it does as a user. Users are a dime-a-dozen while there is only one hand plane with this specific history and seeing how it functions teaches us what my great grandfather had to use and kept on-hand.

Phew … that solves this plane. Hopefully there's at least one good user in his lot of planes, but if not, oh well. I'll keep them all and pass them all along.


----------



## HokieKen

In my experience, very few planes can't be made to work well once one understands the finer points of how they do what they do. But there are some that take way more effort and some that just aren't gonna cooperate no matter how much TLC you give them. If it can't hold the blade tight enough to keep it rigid and loose enough to let the depth and lateral be adjusted, it's a lost cause IMO.


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## corelz125

It has a stamped steel frog Devin?


----------



## HokieKen

Has anyone used these powdered solvent dyes or similar ones? Just wondering if it's more cost effective to buy these and mix them in some DNA vs buying a single color of liquid dye like leather dye or Transtint?


----------



## CaptainKlutz

*Ken* 
Have handled pigments and dyes to make colors for decades. Yes, it can be cheaper, but I refuse to do it at home. There is a huge hassle factor to consider, plus cost of very accurate scale if you want recipe repeatability.

IME - The powders are insidious. The powders are microscopic and go everywhere, and coat everything. Your entire table top will have micro fine coating of powder; just by opening the bag. You will find the powder in places you never dreamed were possible. A month after using powdered dye, will wipe wet rag on leg of bench and will find same color residue. 
Many of the dyes contain organic metal complexes that are dangerous to continuing the human condition. Need to use respirator when bags, bins with dye powders are open.
YMMV?

If you want a cheaper and easy option for large quantities of dye; check out the Mohawk Dye concentrates. The quart sizes are half price of Transtint.

YMMV


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks CK. Good feedback. I have powdered pigments I use in casting resin so I'm familiar with the mess! I TRY to remember my respirator anytime I deal with possibly airborne fines. Biggest attraction is multiple colors and being able to mix to suit.


----------



## bandit571

Something for Kenny to drool over?









And when raised up…









No. 1816 Millers Falls, Made in USA….was "picked" over the past weekend..









For a $1…..mainly because I wanted the saw…


----------



## DevinT

What is it, bandit?


----------



## bandit571

Millers Falls No. 1816 Mitre Box & saw. patent date is from about 1961…..back when I was about..8 years old.


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## HokieKen

Can't beat it at that price Bandit!


----------



## HokieKen

*Just to clarify:*

In the Secret Santa Exchange Rules I suggested that we ship sometime between Thanksgiving and Christmas. But since, there have been several comments about folks not wanting to wait that long so we said that shipping sooner is fine. So, the new rule is *ship your package anytime you wish but make sure it makes it to your recipient before Christmas.*

And whenever you do receive a package, make sure you post some pics for us and tell us who sent it  Also , when you send your package please be sure to put a note or something in it that at a minimum identifies who you are so your recipient will know who to thank ;-) I have a list of everyone who signed up and who everyone is shipping to so I can keep track as folks send and receive.


----------



## bandit571

About ready to rehab a block plane….have found a cap iron that might work. 









Thinking this MIGHT be a Sargent No. 307? 7" long. However…iron is stamped as a Firestone Supreme? Any info towards that? Not sure where the lateral lever hooks onto….right now it just sits between the uprights on the base casting…









The adjustable mouth works great, just needs a good cleaning…..not sure what colour scheme Firestone used for their planes….

Might run the Stanley No. 120 through the rehab shop at the same time….









Kind of needs a bit of work. Hmmm…just what the shop needs..2 more block planes…


----------



## corelz125

Maybe I should go look for the plane I bought for the Santa swap. Forgot where it went.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I started rehabbing the plane I was going to send for the swap, but I'm thinking it might be the more involved job I was worrying it was. I've discovered three or four parts which really ought to be replaced now that I have it all apart and there's no petrified grease holding things together any more. But it's also something I decided I kinda want for myself once it's all done.

But that's ok, I found something that will be a better fit for my recipient, for under the limit on eBay today and it's on its way to me for a quick cleanup and a note, and then on to my recipient.


----------



## HokieKen

Take your time guys. It's a long time until Christmas ;-) I still have a good bit of work to do on my gift plane before I'm ready to ship it off.

Like Dave though, I've become quite fond of what I initially thought was just a unique, uncommon specimen. So I have an Ebay alert set up for one of my own. Scoring another one under the spending cap is looking to be exceptiknally unlikely though…


----------



## Lazyman

I've got several planes in various degrees of needed rehab that I have collected at garage and estate sales that all qualify under the price limit. I guess I will just rehab them all and hope that one of them is good enough for my recipient…and doesn't turn out to be better than one of my more expensive planes and want to keep it. Most of the candidates are in pretty rough shape so it might be time to break out my *********************************** sandblaster again. One is missing a part that could push me over the limit if I buy one so I might have to see if I can make the part out of scrap brass I have laying around.


----------



## HokieKen

Does anyone have a 9/16-24 left-handed tap? I haven't had any luck finding one online. These are the threads in the adjuster nuts on Stanley and Millers Falls planes (I'm not sure about other manufacturers).

I've been intending to go through all of my bench planes and make new knobs and totes from Cocobolo to replace all of the "tropical" hardwood ones that I have. I've also, in a separate train of thought, been watching Ebay for Type 2 planes to replace the Type 3's that I have. But, the only difference between T2 and T3 other than Cocobolo vs Tropical Hardwood is the brass adjuster nut and brass cylinder nuts attaching the knob and tote where the T3s have steel screws.

So, I realized last night that it would be silly to spend time making new knobs and totes if I were going to replace the planes anyway. And I really like the lineup of planes I have now. They are all tuned to my liking.

So, my new plan is to just upgrade the ones I have. New totes and knobs from Cocobolo and turn some threaded rods and brass cylinder nuts to attach them. No problems there. BUT, the one outstanding chore then will be new adjuster nuts. No worries with turning them but, threading a hole that small with a single point tool on a manual lathe is…. well, not something I look forward to. And I have 4 planes that would need them so I definitely don't relish the idea of doing it that many times.

So, my favorite option is buying a tap if I can find one. Or, renting a tap if someone has one they could do without for a while but don't want to part with permanently? And I'd just be using it on brass so there wouldn't be any appreciable wear on the 4 parts I'd need it for.

But, if neither of those come to fruition, I suppose I can make one from drill rod. Not as simple as it may sound but doable I suppose…

In any case, I say all that to ask if anyone either knows where I can get a tap or has one they'd be willing to sell or rent out  OR if anyone happens to have a pile of brass Millers Falls adjuster nuts laying around, I'm in the market. They would have to be Millers Falls though. Or at least exact replicas…


----------



## DanKrager

HK, would this work for you? This is a really odd size. Well, of course it is….it's for a hand plane.

or perhaps this?

DanK


----------



## DavePolaschek

Kenny, a quick search turned up this tap and die set - am I missing something that makes that unsuitable (other than the cost)?


----------



## HokieKen

Well duh. The one time I go to specialty sites and not Amazon and Ebay… Thanks for the links guys. They Ebay link you both had led me to this tap that's inexpensive and from a US seller so I ordered one  I've never had the need for a die and I have thread files to clean up the external threads so I skipped on that part.


----------



## Ocelot

Wow. Is that a normal thing? Why would anybody be selling those? twelve bux.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't really know Paul but there is a bunch of them available on Ebay from China. I couldn't find them at any machinist supply or industrial sites so I doubt it's a really commonly used thread.


----------



## rad457

I thought left hand threads were for South of the Equator?


----------



## HokieKen

I got sucked into a documentary the other night on the Flat Earth "movement" Andre. How do you even know there is an equator? ;-)


----------



## DanKrager

Well, the argument seems simple enough to me. If the earth were flat, the cats would have pushed everything off it by now, including all the hand planes of your dreams, left handed taps with their dies….

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

Leach has a MF scrub plane on the October list. I'm pondering that one… He has a MF made Fulton 3708 too but it's a little rich for me and those planes are fairly common. I've never actually seen a Millers Falls scrub before though. It seems pretty steep at $155 for a scrub plane but maybe??


----------



## Lazyman

I'd say that if Kenny hasn't seen a particular MF plane, it must be rare. Better buy it and corner the market.


----------



## Lazyman

I would love to know how Leach gets his hands on so many great planes.


----------



## bandit571

Both of last weekend's block plane finds are now rust free, irons are sharpened to 600 grit. Moving parts are clean and oiled up.

Film when I can take the camera back TO the shop….also both Stanley squares are cleaned up, and ready for work.

Spent one whole hour down in the shop….had to evict a Brown Recluse Spider from the work area,,,,little bugger is quick….could not get it stomped flat..this time.


----------



## Johnny7

> I would love to know how Leach gets his hands on so many great planes.
> 
> - Lazyman


I could tell you, but then I'd have to … y'know


----------



## controlfreak

And, I have just bought another plane. The weird thing is she hasn't noticed yet. ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Yes she has. She has just chosen not to reveal her knowledge yet. Be afraid. Be very afraid.


----------



## controlfreak

And, I have just bought another plane. The weird thing is she hasn't noticed yet. ;-)


----------



## Ocelot

> And, I have just bought another plane. The weird thing is she hasn t noticed yet. ;-)
> 
> - controlfreak


... and maybe she has, but since you haven't notice what *she* bought, she didn't say anything.


----------



## Notw

I bought a new one as well and it is sitting on my porch, i actually had to go into the office today so it will be a race to get home before the wife


----------



## corelz125

I got lucky the last couple of purchases I made it home first. The small ones I can sneak by sometimes this Record 08 would of been a dead give away.
I guess when you have been in the buying and selling plane game for so long the planes come to you.


----------



## rad457

> I got sucked into a documentary the other night on the Flat Earth "movement" Andre. How do you even know there is an equator? ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


From where I'm at, the further South I go the warmer it gets? LOL! snuck a couple of carving chisels home with my last L.V. order, pretended to order some baking stuff the the Boss. Was very disappointed to see that their dowels are now coming out of China


----------



## Ocelot

So LV is falling apart? <sigh> They were good for a long while.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…Firestone Supreme?









According to the iron's logo….aka No. 307 Sargent…..waiting on paint to dry..









managed about an hour in the shop, today…the "other" block plane..









Stanley #120….


----------



## corelz125

Kenny he has some other very interesting planes on this months list also. That Shaw's patent #7 is a nice one.


----------



## HokieKen

I didn't really spend much time on it Corelz. Just skimmed the "miscellaneous" section looking for Millers Falls. I'll give it a more thorough look tomorrow.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> It seems pretty steep at $155 for a scrub plane but maybe??


The Lie-Nielsen Scrub Plane is $185. And out of stock. So $155 seems like a bargain, right?


----------



## Lazyman

I also got a new plane today. I didn't have to hide it from my wife because she got it at an estate sale for $15. Nothing special and I have not dated it yet but looks like a decent Stanley #4 and won't take much to clean it up to make it ready to use.


----------



## Ocelot

Kenny,

Is that the same thread as on a Stanley?

I might buy one in that case just because…

-Paul


> Well duh. The one time I go to specialty sites and not Amazon and Ebay… Thanks for the links guys. They Ebay link you both had led me to this tap that s inexpensive and from a US seller so I ordered one  I ve never had the need for a die and I have thread files to clean up the external threads so I skipped on that part.
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## HokieKen

> It seems pretty steep at $155 for a scrub plane but maybe??
> 
> The Lie-Nielsen Scrub Plane is $185. And out of stock. So $155 seems like a bargain, right?
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Honestly, if I used a scrub plane, I wouldn't hesitate to drop the $155. But, I do make a sincere effort not to be a collector and to only "collect" tools that are going to be put to use. It is a rare, if not particularly valuable, Millers Falls plane though…


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny,
> 
> Is that the same thread as on a Stanley?
> 
> I might buy one in that case just because…
> 
> -Paul
> 
> - Ocelot


Yes it is Paul. At least on every Stanley that I know of. I don't know of them ever changing thread size. If I remember right, early on Stanley used a right-handed thread on the adjuster though? But if you have a left-hand threaded adjuster, that tap should be what you need.


----------



## Ocelot

Thanks Ken.

But shouldn't it be 9/32-24, not 9/16?


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Honestly, if I used a scrub plane, I wouldn't hesitate to drop the $155.


I've actually got a LN scrub plane. I use it once in a while, but I use one of my Stanley Global #3s that I converted to a scrub plane more often, as I'm better about sharpening it more regularly, so it's ready to go. But then I hand-flatten a lot of material, and if I get something that twists after I resaw it, I'm not shy about hogging off a bunch of wood with a scrub plane. Got some apple that was supposed to be 3/8 thick that's closer to 5/32 after I flattened out the potato chip, but it's getting used in a project, and will be darned pretty when it's done.


----------



## HokieKen

> Thanks Ken.
> 
> But shouldn t it be 9/32-24, not 9/16?
> 
> - Ocelot


Sunuvabitch


----------



## Ocelot

approximation and visualization.  9/16 is more than a half inch which *seems* too big. Then found this document.


... which has a lot of interesting history far beyond only the history of hand planes, but also has the thread sizes.

And this auction which describes the threads too.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, so I typoed when I first asked about a tap for the adjuster nuts. Then Dave and Dan sent links to precisely what I asked for. Then I purchased what I asked for.

And none of it was what I needed. Ugh. It's 9/32-24 left hand that I need. And 9/16-24 that I purchased.


----------



## Ocelot

You might can still cancel the order.


----------



## controlfreak

> Yeah, so I typoed when I first asked about a tap for the adjuster nuts. Then Dave and Dan sent links to precisely what I asked for. Then I purchased what I asked for.
> 
> And none of it was what I needed. Ugh. It s 9/32-24 left hand that I need. And 9/16-24 that I purchased.
> 
> - HokieKen


"Be very carful on what you ask for, you just may get it!" That quote is mine when a customer asks for a notification any time a camera detects motion. It is usually followed by "how do I turn this $hit off"


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, total blunder on my part there. Unfortunately the order shipped yesterday so I can't cancel it. I have tons of taps that I'll probably never use. I'll just add this one to the pile. I went back to Ebay and searched for the proper size with no luck in left-hand threads. So I'm back where I started.


----------



## Ocelot

I was about to order one myself… on the theory that if I had what Ken has I will be *so cool*.  But I stopped to think, which is always a good idea (I should be thinking about my job right now, for example, instead of this stuff).


----------



## Mosquito

You're going to have to build some big ass hand planes now Kenny lol


----------



## DanKrager

I should have said something more helpful because I wondered about the 9/16" LH tap in a hand plane context. The 9/32" -24 LH UNF does appear to be non-existent.

Now, I know you are a machinist and have the tools and probably the knowledge and skill, why not make one? Or a dozen and sell them to cover the expense if that's an issue. If i did it, there might be one that cut…. LOL. There seem to be custom mfrs who offer near miss sizes for about $100 each…..

I now follow a hobby machinist site and they do stuff like that. Some are not pretty but they claim to work.

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

I probably wouldn't make them to sell Dan. To make a proper tap, you have to grind it to final shape after hardening and I don't have the capability to do that. But, since it's only going to be used on brass, I think I can probably make one that'll get the job done from some semi-hard steel and not have to harden it. That seems the most likely solution at this point.


----------



## Lazyman

Speaking of Stanley threads. Anyone have tip for the best way to cut the large threads into a replacement nob on needed for a Stanley 220 block plane? The stud it has to match appears to be just over 3/8" OD and about 8 TPI?


----------



## HokieKen

Drill the hole a little smaller than the OD but larger than the minor diameter of the threads. Then just twist the knob on allowing the stud to cut the threads. That's how I did the knob on my 45. I did it with the intention of taking it back off and putting some epoxy in there. But, it was such a good, tight fit, I never added the epoxy and it's still holding strong after a couple years.


----------



## HokieKen

Well, I found one. But that price, OUCH…


----------



## corelz125

I was wondering how those taps were so plentiful and easy to find. I almost ordered one myself.


----------



## HokieKen

.


----------



## Ocelot

50 Pieces for $210.


----------



## drsurfrat

I have found turnbuckles to be very useful at times, but then again, you'd need both a tap and die… Kenny, just spring for ONE MORE thing to get.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Sorry 'bout that, Kenny. I thought 9/16 was a mite big, but you generally know what you're talking about… and when you don't, it's often funny.


----------



## Ocelot

That link to 50 pieces was not very good but if you go select the item it says 9/32-24 LH . Might be whitworth. Hard to tell. Worth asking. If we each take 3 . 17 people. 208/17 is about $13 .


----------



## controlfreak

> Sorry 'bout that, Kenny. I thought 9/16 was a mite big, but you generally know what you're talking about… and when you don't, it's often funny.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Now this is funny!


----------



## HokieKen

> …you generally know what you're talking about…
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


This^ is what's funny ;-)


----------



## DavePolaschek

As long as it's funny, does it really matter who gets hurt?


----------



## HokieKen

Not in the least Dave ;-)


----------



## corelz125

Kenny are you going to place a mass order for these also?


----------



## HokieKen

If we have enough people wanting to buy in, sure!


----------



## Mosquito

Not me, Keen Kutter adjusters spin the right way 
At least the KK series ones that I have. Obviously the k series doesn't


----------



## HokieKen

You can get the RH thread tap pretty readily Mos. It's just the LH that is 'spensive.


----------



## controlfreak

I haven't anything curved to plane but for some reason there are a bunch of compass planes on my watch list. I definitely have ODO (Order Dis Order)


----------



## rad457

> I haven t anything curved to plane but for some reason there are a bunch of compass planes on my watch list. I definitely have ODO (Order Dis Order)
> 
> - controlfreak


Simple solution, start building a Krenov Cabinet with Coopered doors?


----------



## corelz125

CF for that one project in the future that needs a radius you already have the tool ready to go. Also the prices aren't going down.


----------



## donwilwol

> I haven t anything curved to plane but for some reason there are a bunch of compass planes on my watch list. I definitely have ODO (Order Dis Order)
> 
> - controlfreak


OR---
You can foresee the future, and you know you will need a radius plane (but then who doesn't)


----------



## theoldfart

I'm all in favor of them. The results are rather cool.
Works good on railroad roofs as well!


----------



## controlfreak

Just as I suspected, all the cool kids have them.


----------



## HokieKen

I have a 113 but never used it the first time. I figure I'll need it one day. If not, I'll sell it back to Mos' at a profit. He always develops seller's remorse ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Dammit. Is this the new normal for these Fulton planes??


----------



## HokieKen

I got a couple hours of shop time this evening and spent it working on my Secret Santa plane. The hard work is done


----------



## rad457

Kinda looks like my Sargent 708


----------



## HokieKen

You wish your Sargent looked that good ;-)


----------



## Ocelot

I wrote to the eBay seller about the 50 LH taps.. as follows.

Can you sell smaller quantities of the 9/32-24 LH tap? Don't need 50.
5 maybe.

The replay was as follows …

Hi,thanks for your inquiry.
Sorry,it's for custom order,the factory don't accept few pieces orders.
Best regards
Frank

-Paul


----------



## HokieKen

I figured it was something like that Paul. I'm debating now whether I want to spend the $42 at A Plane Life for one or just make my own. Normally, I'd just spend the money because of the time involved in making one. But, I've never made a tap and I'm kinda inclined to give it a go just for the experience. I'm sure that in working with vintage tools, this won't be the last time I need a tap that I can't find…


----------



## Ocelot

Well, if you are going to make *one* Ken, you might as well make one for each of us.  It shoujld be not much extra trouble.


----------



## Mosquito

> I haven t anything curved to plane but for some reason there are a bunch of compass planes on my watch list. I definitely have ODO (Order Dis Order)
> 
> - controlfreak


I used to have two, but I coaxed Kenny in to taking care of that problem for me. He's usually good for that


----------



## HokieKen

If when I get a good tap made, it should be fairly easy to replicate if folks need one Paul. However, what I'm intending won't be hardened and will probably have a fairly limited life span in brass. And will probably be useless for steel.

LOL Mos'. I was looking at that plane last night after the comments the other day. I wanted badly to play with it for a bit but I forced myself to spend my time on more important projects. Soon though, very soon ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

That just proves that hand plane collecting follows the normal rules of math.
Where:
Mos = 1 fool + 2 planes
Kenny = 1 fool

Mos - 1 plane + Kenny +1 plane = (1 fool + 2 plane) - 1 plane + 1 fool = 2 fool +2 plane 
or 
2(fool + plane).


----------



## Mosquito

should be usable whenever you're ready Kenny, I sharpened it up before I sent it 

And Nathan, that math doesn't work out very well for tool collecting, that's just tool moving :-D


----------



## HokieKen

I really hate that I noticed this but,



> ...
> (1 fool + 2 plane) - 1 plane + 1 fool =
> ...
> 
> - Lazyman


is *2 fool + 1 plane*. Not 2 fool + 2 plane. You didn't carry the last term in your first statement.

Nerd OCD. ;-)


----------



## rad457

If memory serves me right, my 708 had a 113 in the box as well, but not sharpened 
The 708 now has a PMV-11 iron and almost got used yesterday but the Bailey #3 was chosen at the last second


----------



## Lazyman

> And Nathan, that math doesn t work out very well for tool collecting, that s just tool moving :-D
> 
> - Mosquito


This is just one of the formulas related to tool collecting (according to Hari Seldon's formulas for psycohistory-Encylopedia Galactica). It is actually the *fool* collecting subset. 

I hate it when that happens Kenny. Somehow I transcribed the formula wrong. Probably why MIT turned me down.


----------



## HokieKen

They're doing important work up there at MIT Nathan.


----------



## Ocelot

Thanks Ken, I don't know what that has to do with handplanes and dreams, but I sent that to my wife…. said it was about our daughter.


----------



## theoldfart

Wife did not laugh, just gave me that look. ;-)


----------



## ac0rn

Be careful what you wish for, there are more women than men.
DeMotivational?


----------



## corelz125

You guys should know better than to show that to your wife.

Mos how is the little guy doing?


----------



## bandit571

> They re doing important work up there at MIT Nathan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


Now…IF they can just do that with a member of Congress….


----------



## HokieKen

I tell people all the time that if they're ever around my wife and she's not talking, somebody's in some seriously deep sh!#.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Is this when I repeat the "if it's funny, it doesn't matter who Kenny's wife is mad at" comment?


----------



## Lazyman

Or should it be "whose wife is mad at Kenny"?


----------



## HokieKen

Both are FAQs.


----------



## ac0rn

but beware those who do not get angry, they may get even with a smile.


----------



## controlfreak

I showed it to the guys in the office, but not my wife who also works in the office. I used to be self employed till she came to work here.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Picked up this no 5 today. It looks like a type 4? I think it will be getting listed on ebay or something because I already have 3 no 5's and don't really "need" another. Its been repainted once I believe but it looks to have been done well. Should I just list it as is or try to clean it up first? I am very inexperienced with tool selling as I generally do not sell tools. Sorry if this is the wrong forum for these questions. I will remove if asked.


----------



## drsurfrat

Nah, don't offer to remove it, objectors can just skip over it if it offends them so.

It has the full horn on the tote (and looks the right shape), so it will get 'full' price, but even for a type 4 that isn't that much, tho a nice one sold recently on fleecebay for $75. 
Type4 = no lateral lever (not just broken off), no plane number on the bed; a bead on the knob base; a recessed depth adjuster nut with "Bailey Aug 8, 1867" inside; 'football' logo on the chipbreaker, an arched logo on the iron.

It is pretty cool that it would date to 1874-84, about 10 years after the civil war.

If it has a solid adjuster nut, a banjo shaped lever cap spring, and a football logo on the iron, you are in MUCH better shape.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

This one does have the lateral adjuster on it. It says Stanley with 2 pat dates on the adjuster. The iron says Stanley pat apl 19 92.

With further information it seems this is a type 5 due to the lateral adjuster.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

If you list it, my reco is to do so as-is.


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos how is the little guy doing?
> 
> - corelz125


He's doing well, thanks. He was symptom free by the end of last week, so best we can tell it was just a runny nose for a week and a little bit of a cough early on for a couple days. He tested negative on Monday (got the results back yesterday).

We had to have some "discussion" with daycare, as they initially said he couldn't come back until he was symptom free AND had a negative PCR test. According to our Dr and the CDC the PCR tests can come back positive for up to 3 months after having it, since it doesn't tell the difference between alive and dead (non-contagious) cells. Luckily they found the "right" people to talk to, and got a form for us to fill out, and it was approved for him to go back (even though he had the negative come back that same day anyway so it didn't matter). He should have been able to go back on Monday per the cdc and MN department of health, but oh well, wasn't the end of the world having him home another 2 days.



> but beware those who do not get angry, they may get even with a smile.
> 
> - Jeff


There is much truth to that


----------



## corelz125

It makes you dizzy trying to figure out all the rules and regulations now.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, if nothing else hopefully we at least saved someone else the headache if it comes up again


----------



## bigblockyeti

> It makes you dizzy trying to figure out all the rules and regulations now.
> 
> - corelz125


All part of the fun of building back better!

If it's any colsolation, the folks making the rules know the least about them.


----------



## HokieKen

> Yeah, if nothing else hopefully we at least saved someone else the headache if it comes up again
> 
> - Mosquito


Leave my headache alone commie! My head, my choice.


----------



## controlfreak

I have a new (old) plane that has a crack in the tote. I plan on stripping and refinishing the handle. I haven't removed the screw yet to see what's going on but the two sections look to mate together very well. So my options as I see them are epoxy or wood glue. After I get the sections apart I will see if any sanding may be needed but if not am I better to attempt to place in a vise to help the bond or place back on the sole to let the screw provide clamping pressure?


----------



## HokieKen

My preferred method CF:









If the break is perpendicular to the bolt, then you can just mount it back up. The trick is to get your clamping force so it pushes straight down on the break so it really depends on the angle of the break.


----------



## donwilwol

My tote repair method

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/27/repairing-the-bench-plane-tote-the-dw-way/


----------



## Mosquito

any of you yeayhoo's have and use a 15g FN style (25°) nailer?


----------



## corelz125

CF this is what I use for pressure to hold a tote together. Toggle bolt and over size washers.


----------



## controlfreak

Thanks Guys, as usual lots of great ideas to go over here.


----------



## DevinT

I've not seen anyone mention it before, but you know, these do exist and I imagine are pretty easy to make (no need to buy-they do appear on eBay from time to time)


----------



## Johnny7

> I ve not seen anyone mention it before, but you know, these do exist and I imagine are pretty easy to make (no need to buy-they do appear on eBay from time to time)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - DevinT


Had not seen one of those before and like the idea, but I suspect it's 3D printed and wonder about its durability.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm sure it's plenty durable Johnny but you could make one from wood pretty easily I would think. The tie rods wouldn't be necessary, just a clamp or vise would do. That is a slick little package though if you have a 3D printer.


----------



## DevinT

I mean, it's not really even necessary … you *could* just do what mafe did

But, if you want the 3D models for the 3D printed clamp, it's available on thingiverse


----------



## BugeyedEarl

I need to print a backup set of open end wrenches in case any of my Protos fail…


----------



## controlfreak

A tote clamp jig is in my future I think. I should be able to make one out of wood though, I don't think I will ever 3D print anything.


----------



## DevinT

I'm with you. I don't think I will get into 3D printing until I can print metal (like Shapeways)


----------



## Lazyman

I use my 3D printer mostly for making jigs and custom shop vac fittings. I even printed a cyclone for the shop vac. I've printed new inserts for a bandsaw and hold downs and dogs for my CNC. Pretty handy to have. Just out of curiosity, I downloaded the tote clamp from Thingiverse and it would take over 13 hours to print so unless I was going to use it a lot would not be worth the trouble. It would take about $1 worth of filament.

Here is the most recent thing I printed for checking bevel angles. Used about 6 cents worth of filament. Much easier than using the protractor.


----------



## drsurfrat

I have printed many parts over the last decade for work, and like Nathan said, most were fixtures. I was also lucky to have access to both FDM (hot glue gun method) and SLA (UV resin) methods, and could send out for SLS (laser powder melting) and DMLS (metal). For engineering work, it really spoils your ability to be patient.

They have a long way to go with metal printing quality in my limited experience. The one part I had made in stainless (316, I think) had a very coarse surface, and was so full of inclusions that a very good machinist broke three taps trying to thread a #4 screw hole. As he was doing it he let me listen the crunching sounds as he tapped it.


----------



## drsurfrat

Does anyone know about these plow plane blades?

They are marked "JAs DOUGLAS & CO / SHEFFIELD". They seem to be high quality, and you can see the steel lamination difference. Can't find "Douglas" related to plow planes at all.










It is a numbered set of eight with one missing, but the widths don't seem to have a method to their madness.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Widths should just be 16ths of an inch + 1/16th by the number
Accuracy is a bit hit and miss with them though in general.

Widths should be about these









Not heard of Douglas & Co, but there were a *lot* of makers in sheffield.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Does anyone know about these plow plane blades?
> 
> They are marked "JAs DOUGLAS & CO / SHEFFIELD". They seem to be high quality, and you can see the steel lamination difference. Can t find "Douglas" related to plow planes at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a numbered set of eight with one missing, but the widths don t seem to have a method to their madness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - drsurfrat


I know nothing specifically, but looking at the numbers I suspect that the numbered sizes equate to 16ths of an inch, just like drill/auger bits. If you factor in a 45 or 50-degree bed angle and some skew, those should work out about right. I'll leave reverse-engineering the math to you. Have fun.


----------



## drsurfrat

Ah, plus 1/16 makes sense, thanks Mike. "Hit or miss" is an understatement.

There was also a comment somewhere that blade makers would leave their work blank and let the plane makers stamp their name on the iron.

Now if I just had a wooden plow plane… Number 3 is probably sitting in it.


----------



## defrosted

So, how do I date this Union No. 2? Bailey larger and smaller planes did not strictly follow the same progression of updates that the mainline 4's and 5's did, and the 1s and 2s especially got locked in to earlier forms. No idea if the Union No. 2 had any changes over the 16 year window it seems to fit in, or if Stanley just kept making this 2 the same way for a while. The Union planes went from "B planes" to this general style in 1904 and then Stanley bought them in '20 and things changed again.

So I have the riveted washer on the handle side of the pivot but no date on the lateral adjuster, 
Cap iron screw hole on the top end of the blade, 
Plain lever cap with more rounded edges like earlier Stanley, 
Right hand depth adjuster threads (like my type 6 #6 that likes to bite me..), 
UNION No. 2 in front of the tote, 
Frog receiver area that looks almost like a Stanley type 5 except for this has grooves along the sides, 
3 washers on each frog screw to keep them from punching through the base
Someone lost the nut for the front knob and replaced it with a standard hex nut and hogged out the top of the knob to fit. eerrrggggggggg. Ok, not a dating help at all. But not as bad as the lever cap from a Sargent 409 I found ground down and fitted into a #3…



























And not much else to go on…

And I literally bought it out of the back of a truck…


----------



## 33706

Now that the discussion has returned to #2 planes, please take a peek at my "ECLIPSE" #2 plane.




























There seems to be an association between Eclipse and Speer & Jackson tools. I'm not sure if the Eclipse tools of today have any relationship with the Eclipse tools of 100+ years ago.

Mostly this little guy just sits in a glass front cabinet along with other gems that I don't have the heart to use. Cement floor, y'know!


----------



## bigblockyeti

> any of you yeayhoo s have and use a 15g FN style (25°) nailer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito


I do but mine are 34 degrees. I have 15, 16, 18 & 23 gauge depending on what the situation calls for.


----------



## HokieKen

I know nothing about Union planes defrosted. But is that a $12 price tag on that Millers Falls #8 photobombing back there? If so, nice score!


----------



## defrosted

I have been the beneficiary of a couple of inspiring estate sales.









and so my livingroom shelf


----------



## Mosquito

> any of you yeayhoo s have and use a 15g FN style (25°) nailer?
> 
> - Mosquito
> 
> 
> 
> I do but mine are 34 degrees. I have 15, 16, 18 & 23 gauge depending on what the situation calls for.
> 
> - bigblockyeti
Click to expand...

Darn, was looking for somewhere to send about 990 of them lol

I have 15, 16, 18 and 23 as well, but my 15 is also 34° DA nail, so these do me no good


----------



## HokieKen

There's a Buck Rogers Smoother listed BIN for $100 on Ebay if anyone's interested.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

As-found too, looks nice.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, it could use a little cleaning and polishing but it appears complete and original and I don't see any breaks or anything. And the Tennite looks to be pretty well preserved too.


----------



## DevinT

Wow! That's a monster of a thumb wheel on that depth adjuster!

Also, wow, look at that cute lateral adjuster! It's adorable!


----------



## HokieKen

I love the Buck Rogers depth adjuster design. The big knob that doesn't move is very ergonomic and the carriage that moves on the threaded rod provides much less backlash than on Bailey pattern planes.


















And the lateral works just like on a Bailey pattern but the short throw from the pivot and disc that fits the blade slot more closely makes it easier to adjust it precisely with less movement.


















Of course, if you're like me, these adjustements are made immediately after sharpening the blade then not touched again until you sharpen again. So neither is a huge deal to me. But, I still like that Millers Falls was attempting to make design improvements at a time when hand tools were in danger of becoming extinct  I'm not a big fan of plastics or the Aluminum frog but I understand and respect the intention behind the design choices.


----------



## DevinT

The depth adjuster doesn't move? I am intrigued


----------



## HokieKen

The wheel doesn't move. It's pinned to the threaded rod. The whole rod turns and the carriage rides on the threads.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, rather than a thumb nut that moves on a threaded post, engaging with the yoke on the frog, the Buck Rogers planes have a carriage that moves on a threaded rod, which is fixed to the thumb wheel.

Like Kenny said, it's nice because they don't wear like the brass thumb wheels on many other planes do, so they hold their tolerances quite well with age


----------



## DevinT

It's a great design in my opinion-seeing it remotely at least.

Looks like a good plane. I can't say much for the "unbreakable" (read: early form of plastic) handle as I've never held a plane with such a tote before, though.


----------



## HokieKen

As a user, I'd definitely prefer wood knobs and totes. But I like the look of the Tennite on the Buck Rogers tools.


----------



## DevinT

Wonder what if you took a naturally red colored wood and stabilized it to make even redder, trying to somewhat match the color in wood


----------



## DevinT

I might add, the Buck Rogers plane tote looks like a knife with scales. Imagine what you could do if you just made scales to fit the tote


----------



## Mosquito

Not quite scales, they wrap around the back of it too.

The knob on mine is, I believe, blood wood, from none other than Mr. DonW


----------



## DLK

> There s a Buck Rogers Smoother listed BIN for $100 on Ebay if anyone s interested.
> 
> - HokieKen


I passed on one for $75, in about the same condition. Should I get it?


----------



## HokieKen

IMO $100 is a good deal on a complete 709 in that condition. They don't come up nearly as often as the 714 and even those rarely sell for less than 3 figures. I would have already grabbed it if I didn't already have a nice example of that model.


----------



## DLK

Well I can probably still get it. I will try.


----------



## rad457

Thought about it only $142.00 U.S. (185.00 CAN.) delivery Nov. 2nd to 29th ? Naw, really don't need it.


----------



## HokieKen

Oh, I thought you meant you regretted passing on the $75 dollar one and were asking if you should get the $100 one Don. Yes, the $75 is a no-brainer to me if all the original parts are present and unbroken!

Here's another Buck Rogers smoother ending soon. It's sitting at a low bid right now but I feel sure it'll sell quite a bit higher.


----------



## HokieKen

> I might add, the Buck Rogers plane tote looks like a knife with scales. Imagine what you could do if you just made scales to fit the tote
> 
> - DevinT


Like Mos said, the tote "scales" are more like a hotdog bun.









But they could certainly be replicated with wood. Would be very similar to making a new handle for a 45 plane. Personally, I like the Tennite because it kinda defines the "Buck Rogers" tools and has a very Atomic Age look and feel. If I were to replace the tennite, I'd also paint everything black. I'm not a fan of industrial gray. But, like the Tennite, it defines the niche so I keep it.


----------



## Lazyman

Just gotta find a red 3D printer filament that matches the Tennite pretty closely and design one in CAD. It will require some post-print sanding and maybe a clear top coat to get it shiny but it could look pretty darn close with the right filament and will probably be more durable as well. In fact if this was going to be a user, I would probably remove the old nob and tote hotdog to preserve them and use some printed ones. We've already designed and printed a front nob. We just didn't try to use a red filament (because I didn't have any on hand so I painted it).










I'll bet as soon as the second one on ebay hits $100, the BIN one will be gone.


----------



## HokieKen

There's a third one listed now with a cracked lever cap. It's also missing the small Tennite piece in the lateral lever. I'm not sure I've ever seen 3 listed at the same time before. Might hurt the price more than help it. I'd still bet on the two auctions closing higher than the $100 BIN price though and would grab that one if it were me.


----------



## HokieKen

The auction 709 ending today is up to $118 so far but the BIN for $100 is still up for grabs. The difference in condition probably justifies $20-30 more but at this point, I'd start considering the rusty one…


----------



## HokieKen

Auction ended at $127.50 and the $100 BIN sold right before the auction ended.

Nathan, I liked the 3D printed mold and resin casting method. Just need to find the right dye for the resin. Had I not found a knob for sale, I'd probably still be experimenting…


----------



## DevinT

What does BIN stand for? I know NIB is New In Box, and NOS is New Old Stock, but not familiar with BIN


----------



## rad457

> What does BIN stand for? I know NIB is New In Box, and NOS is New Old Stock, but not familiar with BIN
> 
> - DevinT


Buy It Now


----------



## bandit571

Dug out 3 planes…to get them ready to ship out…









Had to make sure they all work like new, too….

Picture is blurry for a reason….


----------



## DavePolaschek

For those who were looking for the Gramercy Tools handle-maker's rasp, they have some back in stock today. Just an FYI.


----------



## HokieKen

Sold out by the time I got there Dave. They still have the coarse in stock but it's the fine cut I was after.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Place an order, Ken. They'll email you when it's back in stock and hold one for you. Or if someone who placed an order for a fine cut from this batchdecides "naw, don't want it anymore," you'll be in the queue.


----------



## HokieKen

I did that with a couple of carving gouges from Woodcraft back in January and I'm still waiting. I'm on the e-mail list for notification when they re-stock. I'll take my chances on getting there in time when they restock.


----------



## Mosquito

I did that with shoulder planes at LN… Gave up hope, bought two records to complete the set of 3 instead… Same week I got the planes, I also got the notifications from LN… So now I have two sets, naturally.

Also something I ordered from LV this spring (March) is still not in yet. Annoying times lol


----------



## ac0rn

LV email notifications seem to work when the product is back in stock. I've been waiting for a nobex replacement blade for months. Notification came today.


----------



## rad457

Couple of weeks ago got a call from L.V. about some bearing guide rods for my Rikon 10-305, forgot that I had even ordered them, they sent a complete lower bearing assembly, the new tool less style, $13.65, the price quoted for the pins Almost made up for the made in China dowels. Good day, was using the M.F.s 07!


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah the two gouges I ordered are Pfeils and they have apparently been hamstringed pretty severely by Covid. Inventory of their tools seems to be dwindling everywhere and not being replenished for the most part. It's not something I'm in a big hurry for though and I haven't found them available anywhere else so I'll just stick it out. With supply chain issues being what they are right now though, I won't likely be ordering any back ordered items any time soon unless I'm willing to just wait indefinitely…


----------



## Mosquito

My same thoughts as well Kenny


----------



## Notw

Latest restoration a Stanley No. 220 block plane.

Before:









And the after, I used semi gloss enamel and I'm really happy how it looks matte next to the shine of the blade and plane body.


















Still looking for a Stanley No. 18 but they've been going for $40+shipping on eBay and that's more than I care to put into one.


----------



## HokieKen

Very nice work Notw. I flounder between the semi-gloss and full gloss Duplicolor for planes. The semi-gloss requires more prep work to look good and you nailed it 

I have the Millers Falls equivalent of the #18 and it's a great plane. I wouldn't count on the price going down. It's worth $40 if you don't have a 9-1/2. If you do have a 9-1/2 it's kinda redundant but I personally have found I really like the knuckle cap compared to the cammed cap for comfort. As far as function, I see no advantage of one over the other though. And a lot of people (DonW included) don't like the knuckle caps because they have a problem with them popping loose in use. I've never found that to be an issue though. I'm certain it's just a nuance in the way one holds the plane and applies pressure. Lucky for us, Stanley made 8 or 9 different variations of each block plane in their lineup so we have choices ;-p

*Edit to add*: If you've never had a block plane with the screw-type depth adjuster, be careful trying to adjust it with the lever cap tight. The threads on the sliding piece strip pretty readily. DAMHIKT.


----------



## controlfreak

> Yeah the two gouges I ordered are Pfeils and they have apparently been hamstringed pretty severely by Covid. Inventory of their tools seems to be dwindling everywhere and not being replenished for the most part. It s not something I m in a big hurry for though and I haven t found them available anywhere else so I ll just stick it out. With supply chain issues being what they are right now though, I won t likely be ordering any back ordered items any time soon unless I m willing to just wait indefinitely…
> 
> - HokieKen


I had a starter set given to me for Fathers day and got one of the three missing gouges last week. Still waiting on the last two from Woodcraft.


----------



## controlfreak

Look what followed me home, a sash plane. My wife said, oh that looks nice. I guess that is the go ahead to buy more molding planes.


----------



## DLK

Thats is a lovely sash plane. Make her a nice window frame for some stained glass!


----------



## HokieKen

Nice CF


----------



## Ocelot

That *does* look nice.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> Still looking for a Stanley No. 18 but they ve been going for $40+shipping on eBay and that s more than I care to put into one.
> 
> - Notw


Here's a pretty cool one ending in about an hour and a half. Has the excelsior body and the original cap style and the adjustable throat without the eccentric adjuster.


----------



## bandit571

1/4" x 24" x 24" plywood panel has been bought….Is now cut to the sizes needed to slip into Large Flat Rate USPS mailing box. Bubble wrap and tape were also picked up, last night. Need Mr. Motivation to stop by….and I can start packing up a few planes…Shipping out tomorrow, I hope…


----------



## Notw

> ...
> 
> Still looking for a Stanley No. 18 but they ve been going for $40+shipping on eBay and that s more than I care to put into one.
> 
> - Notw
> 
> Here s a pretty cool one ending in about an hour and a half. Has the excelsior body and the original cap style and the adjustable throat without the eccentric adjuster.
> 
> - HokieKen


Dangit didn't see this in time. It was the older style cap too


----------



## MikeB_UK

Nice stick and sash plane there CF.


----------



## corelz125

St James Bay has the 12-20 tap and dies back in stock. If anyone missed out on the Kenny mailing list.


----------



## bandit571

Roh..kay, Raggy…..3 planes are NOW packed up, and ready to go out with tomorrow's mail. USPS Flat Rate box.

Inside is a second "box" of 1/4" plywood….inside that are 3 bubble wrapped planes….


----------



## Mosquito

I hope to get 3 planes boxed up and out the door early next week. MWTCA tool meet this Saturday, so I can still change my mind on what I'm sending lol


----------



## Mosquito

Little fun with the Fales 1-1/4" hollow set tonight


----------



## theoldfart

Really nice Mos.


----------



## BugeyedEarl

Just wanted to pop in and say hi. I'm currently living in this thread's sordid past (page 79, July 2020,) having started reading from page 1. Lots of great stuff in here and some planes of my dreams for sure. Up until several months ago, I got by with only a Miller's Falls made Sears that I inherited, plus a 60-1/2 and a dreadful copy of a 63. Then I found a Bailey No 6 and got the fever.

I've since picked up an assortment of mostly Baileys and a bevvy of block planes (they're always too cheap to resist at the flea market…) I expect that by the time I've gotten up to date on the reading, I might have a little motley family to show off.

Back to the past for now!


----------



## DevinT

Wow, such Stamina! Happy reading, and hope to see you sometime around November or sooner.


----------



## Mosquito

Lol probably not wrong… It took me a week to catch up, and we were only 17k posts in on the original thread lol


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah Bugeyed, like Mos said, this is the sequel. You'll want to read the original thread first so you don't loose the plot ;-)


----------



## TedT2

It took me a couple months but I did read both threads in their entirety. It was so much info and fun really. I've thought about doing it again…maybe this winter if I have down time.


----------



## HokieKen

I read through most of the original at one time. It took a helluva long time. It was well underway before I found the site. It is certainly informative though!


----------



## BugeyedEarl

> Yeah Bugeyed, like Mos said, this is the sequel. You'll want to read the original thread first so you don't loose the plot ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Yeah, that thread is on my radar, but I've heard that it's a little dull. Still, there's bound to be a gem or two in those 54k messages.


----------



## DevinT

In my opinion, if you want a wild ride, check out 2021 plane swap


----------



## bandit571

Box with 3 planes has been mailed, this morning..have tracking number available….should be fun to watch it in it's "Travels"....."Supposed" to arrive in next Monday's mail…..."Trick or Treat"?

Should I inform the lucky person of the tracking number….or just let it ride?


----------



## HokieKen

> Box with 3 planes has been mailed, this morning..have tracking number available….should be fun to watch it in it s "Travels"....."Supposed" to arrive in next Monday s mail…..."Trick or Treat"?
> 
> Should I inform the lucky person of the tracking number….or just let it ride?
> 
> - bandit571


Just let it ride for now Bandit. If it gets lost somewhere then we'll re-assess.


----------



## RWE

Since I am always looking at Bandit's posts where he buys 10 nice tools for $5, I figure karma will make me the lucky recipient of the 3 planes box by Bandit. Yeah right. One can always hope.


----------



## defrosted

Anyone know what manufacturer made this #8 casting? it is not a bailey frog receiver, but does have stanley features like the screw hole for frog adjuster and raised knob ring.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Pictures, for tonight?









Jumbo Jack was available…to level a panel after a glue up…the plane?









Millers Falls No. 15. Didn't do too bad, either…









It did leave a couple high spots, though…..we have ways..









Millers Falls No. 9, Type 4 seemed to do just fine…


----------



## corelz125

Defrosted that might be a Vaughan and Bushnell plane.


----------



## Mosquito

Getting some plane part organization in tonight. If I ever get a hold of the 1/4" and 3/16", the set and this rack will be full. Will make a second one for the rounds next. Would have been a lot easier to evenly space the slots, but I wanted to keep them tighter together


----------



## donwilwol

> Anyone know what manufacturer made this #8 casting? it is not a bailey frog receiver, but does have stanley features like the screw hole for frog adjuster and raised knob ring.
> 
> - defrosted


https://www.timetestedtools.net/fulton-32-jack-plane-german-made-like-a-5-my-32-080417-1-43/


----------



## donwilwol

> Anyone know what manufacturer made this #8 casting? it is not a bailey frog receiver, but does have stanley features like the screw hole for frog adjuster and raised knob ring.
> 
> - defrosted


https://www.timetestedtools.net/fulton-32-jack-plane-german-made-like-a-5-my-32-080417-1-43/


----------



## defrosted

> Defrosted that might be a Vaughan and Bushnell plane.
> 
> - corelz125


Unless I am looking at it wrong, the frog receiver area does seem to match . Thanks to all.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Woohoo! Got a notice that the USPS delivered the last bit for my lucky recipient to our gang-mailbox about 8:45 yesterday evening. So I get to retrieve that, gather up all the pieces-parts, and probably have a box ready to get dropped off on Monday morning. Hopefully.


----------



## bandit571

Box is out for Delivery, this morning…....someplace called Hoosick Falls, NY…...we'll see how that goes…


----------



## adot45

Speaking of boxes….I received one in the mail today too. And when I say box, I mean Box! 








A Stanley No. 12 that someone along the way customized into a 12 1/2 look alike. Then Mike (drsurfrat) took it over the top making a new maple handle and matching maple face plate and even added a card to complete it, along with a custom burnisher with a matching maple handle! What a nice job on the woodwork Mike, Thank You so much. 



























Mike still wasn't done. He also added a super nice Stanley No. 52 scraper….
And for the frosting on the cake, it's a type 11, my favorite!










Another big heartfelt Thanks my friend!


----------



## DevinT

I see some beautiful checkering on the handles of that No 52 scraper (relevant to my recent interest in checkering on plane handles).

Very very nice No 12. Hmmm, putting the pressure on me to really spiff-up my swap plane some more before sending it off.


----------



## donwilwol

> Box is out for Delivery, this morning…....someplace called Hoosick Falls, NY…...we ll see how that goes…
> 
> - bandit571


I think bandit tips his postman well!! Always a good day when a couple vbm's gets thrown on the porch


----------



## Mosquito

Man… I need to find better places to scrounge up planes locally I think…


----------



## DavePolaschek

Delivered in/at mailbox! Someone's got a present!


----------



## HokieKen

That's funny that three packages make delivery on the same day. Well done folks!


----------



## bandit571

I included the OEM cap iron for that block plane….IF DonW wants to try and fix it up. Lever to lock it down is missing. What is on the block plane ( No. 307) is a replacement. Might want to see IF the 2 VBM are sharp enough to do a bit of work?


----------



## HokieKen

Decided to 'speriment with some french polishing on some plane furniture. So far, it's extremely simple and looks great


----------



## Ocelot

That looks great, Ken. Somebody around here said the only sand handle-things up to 150 grit 'cause they didn't want 'em to be slippery. Is it?


----------



## HokieKen

Not with the shellac. But I haven't gotten as far as the polishing stage yet, I'm still applying it. It may get too smooth to suit me. That's why I decided to experiment on this plane. It's my #24 (#8 size) which just isn't a plane I use often. So looks can trump fuction to some extent on this one


----------



## Mosquito

What the heck; a groove on a curve?










Tec-Tool



























Angry looking fellow










Has lots of pieces, so that's good.










Pretty neat little thing. Going to have to give it a proper clean and sharpen rather than the lazy quick job I did. I'm actually pretty danged excited; I've always wanted to do curved top rail doors, or other computer related things with curved grooves, but hate the corded router. Now I think I'm going to have to, because the right answer is always to design projects to use the tools you have 

But Dave… WTF man, how am I going to make a plow plane stand for this thing?

To those in the back row (*cough* Kenny *cough*) this was the Secret Santa item sent by Dave Polaschek.


----------



## Mosquito

Also, for those that didn't see it go by on the combo plane forum, I'll break my own philosophy on cross-posting and share this here too, since I brought up the bases earlier in the thread



> New video up actually using a couple of the bases I just cleaned up and sharpened
> (wish I could just embed the video…)
> 
> - Mosquito


----------



## theoldfart

Now that's a cool tool Mos. Dave out did himself on that one.


----------



## DevinT

Super nifty!


----------



## HokieKen

Well ain't that nifty! Never heard of a Tec Tool. I like my corded routers just fine though so I haven't ever really searched for such an animal.


----------



## bigblockyeti

That does look cool but kinda like trading in a pickup truck for a covered wagon.


----------



## HokieKen

Just to make sure I'm caught up on the Secret Santa…

*People who have shipped:*

RWE
bandit571
DonW
drsurfrat
Dave Polaschek

*People who have received:*

HokieKen
Mosquito
DonW
DevinT
adot45

If you have shipped or received and I missed it, let me know! And for those that haven't shipped yet, don't worry there's still lots of time! Just get it there before Christmas and you're good.


----------



## HokieKen

> That does look cool but kinda like trading in a pickup truck for a covered wagon.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


LOL. My thoughts exactly. Of course sometimes I just prefer to ride in my covered wagons too ;-)


----------



## DavePolaschek

I hadn't ever heard of a Tec-Tool until this Secret Santa thing, but when I got Mos, I knew I needed to find a combination plane he hadn't seen, which was going to be tricky (I've seen his collection in person). Some digging turned up the Tec-Tool, an English oddity that apparently didn't sell very well. And then I had to keep watch to find a nice one. Eventually found one on eBay.uk for under the limit, complete with directions, which was a much better deal than the ratty one that I'm keeping for myself (and was the backup for Mos, but would've required making a few missing parts).



> But Dave… WTF man, how am I going to make a plow plane stand for this thing?


I hadn't thought of that, Mos. But as I said in the note, I was mostly thinking about all the room you'll save, now that you don't need to keep all those Model 45s, because the Tec-Tool is so Easy To Use! And Cuts Both Ways! And Grooves To A Stop! It's the New Approach to ALL Ploughing! I strongly suspect it'll change your life. ;-)

Seriously, I'm interested to see what you do with it. I'm pretty sure it'll cut grooves on a curve running the other direction too (as in a groove parallel to a curved edge) if you make a proper fence for it, much like some marking gauges can track around a curve. And I made a copy of the instructions from yours, which helped greatly in figuring out exactly what parts I'm missing.

I probably should've written a Wikipedia article or web page on it, but there's really not very much information about them out there, and I didn't feel up to all the research with the other projects I've got in the works. Maybe MikeB will chime in with some more, since it is one of them "wrong side of the road" tools. ;-)


----------



## Ocelot

Well, now the price of those things is going to go up sharply because we've all got to have one now. Unless, of course, we can get Paul Sellers to say they're no good.


----------



## Mosquito

haha yeah Dave, it's pretty cool, and I hadn't seen them before either.

They're a little tricky to use in my very limited experience, but if you've used a draw knife bevel down before, you'd get the hang of it pretty quick. It's a "rock to adjust the cut" situation.


----------



## corelz125

Nicely done Dave. Not easy to find a tool not many in here have never seen before.


----------



## Ocelot

For what it's worth. My eBay watch list is now completly empty (as well as the shopping cart).

There *are* shipments from exoticwoodzone and a set of 7 planes on the way. I'm gong to (try to) be a good boy for awhile.

-Paul


----------



## DavePolaschek

The toughest part of the whole thing was keeping my yap shut about it for almost four months while I waited for a good one to come up on eBay. And trying to figure what the missing parts looked like from vague internet descriptions, when they seem to have only sold a few thousands of the things…

Yeah, it's tricky to use, but I think once you figure out the "rock to adjust the cut" bit, it's not too bad. And seeing the actual instructions, well, that helped a LOT.

Glad I could surprise folks with a new tool. Maybe for next year's plane swap, I'll make one. ;-) I can see why someone thought they'd be able to sell a bunch of them. I also can see why they didn't sell very many at all. Cool little corner in the tool universe, and if someone were to write an article about it, I'm SURE the MWTCA would run it.


----------



## HokieKen

> - Mosquito


Is that wooden piece something that came with the Tec Tool? It looks like the holes are spaced to fit the screws on the tool but can't figure out what it would be used for?


----------



## Mosquito

It is Kenny. If you can see in the instructions letter I, it's a fence to get closer to the cutters, where the metal one is only able to get so close to it, the wooden one can get all the way to the cutters


----------



## Mosquito

> Glad I could surprise folks with a new tool. Maybe for next year's plane swap, I'll make one. ;-) I can see why someone thought they'd be able to sell a bunch of them. I also can see why they didn't sell very many at all. Cool little corner in the tool universe, and if someone were to write an article about it, I'm SURE the MWTCA would run it.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Maybe with any luck the winter (February) meet in Medina theme will be "tool oddities" and I could display it there :-D


----------



## HokieKen

Makes sense Mos thanks. FWIW, I looked and there are none available on Ebay at the moment ;-)


----------



## Ocelot

yeah, I looked too.


----------



## DevinT

As did I


----------



## MikeB_UK

Hell, I can get 3 of them, you're all looking in the wrong country


----------



## DevinT

Could this be something similar?


----------



## MikeB_UK

If you want older, search for a coach makers plough/router plane

Very nice plough
https://shop.vintagevials.com/product/fine-coach-makers-plow-plane/


----------



## DevinT

I found a Tec-Tool on eBay UK for 18 pounds

NOTE: Sharing obviously because seller won't post it to the United States


----------



## DevinT

> If you want older, search for a coach makers plough/router plane
> 
> Very nice plough
> https://shop.vintagevials.com/product/fine-coach-makers-plow-plane/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - MikeB_UK


Oh, is that what those are for? I had seen them but didn't know why they existed-OK, so plough a curved edge. Nice!

Yeah, I think that would probably work better.


----------



## bigblockyeti

> Could this be something similar?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - DevinT


That's a pear of anguish without the smooth outer case installed.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Hell, I can get 3 of them, you re all looking in the wrong country


I did say I found it on eBay.uk, didn't I? I think only a few of them made it to the states when originally manufactured, which was part of why I was pretty sure Mos hadn't scored one in the past couple years since I ogled his collection.

But heck, I also have Jamie Oliver's second and third books in the UK printing, because I didn't figure I should wait the extra six months for them to print the US-specific version, and I had an Amazon.co.uk account already… I also bought some UK-only socks for my mom back when she was still alive. The company wouldn't ship to the US, but they would ship to my Irish friend in Barcelona, who was more than happy to send them along to the US. It's a small world, especially if you don't mind paying the shipping.

Nice that the one Devin found has additional instructions. Looks like a newer model. *Mos*, you need to upgrade!

Devin, not sure what you've got there.


----------



## Johnny7

> Could this be something similar?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - DevinT


I suspect that's a knife sharpener


----------



## drsurfrat

That's gross yeti.

Maybe it is a pair of steels for sharpening. the crossed bars are the steels, instead of abrasive stones. Very cool design, regardless.


----------



## adot45

It definitely looks like a knife sharpener to me.

Also for the SS I can be marked as shipped.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Nice that the one Devin found has additional instructions. Looks like a newer model. *Mos*, you need to upgrade!
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Same version, It just has the instuctions for the older model with it.

This is the older model, the new one added that trapezium plate to keep the blades fixed.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144255405892?hash=item21964acf44:g:VV0AAOSwDbVhXXzS


----------



## HokieKen

Doesn't look anything like my Pear of Agony Yeti.

Definitely looks like honing steels for a knife. Pretty cool that you can adjust the angle of the steels with the thumb screw.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Oh, MWTCA is aware of the Tec-Tool.

Here's another article…


----------



## DevinT

Pulled out the SS plane for my recipient.

Gosh golly, this is a fine specimen. I just can't find anything to improve upon it. I know he's going to absolutely love it. I'm going to start packing this thing up, I guess. Don't want to be the last one to ship.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Guess I better get busy.


----------



## theoldfart

Me too Smitty. Sigh!


----------



## HokieKen

Me three…. The shopping is done at least but there's still a little bit of elbow grease yet to be applied.


----------



## corelz125

Add me to that list. You guys are making me feel guilty


----------



## DevinT

Ok, I don't feel so bad now. I took a *close* look at the thing and I realized that it doesn't really pass my usual quality of what leaves my premise. It is going to need a few weeks of work in-fact. I think I was just blinded by the fact that I want it.


----------



## sansoo22

Didn't know it was time to ship Secret Santa planes already. I've had mine done since June and boy am I sure glad I did. The rest of the summer was one big damn mess bookended with a couple funerals. This last weekend was the first time since late July I've had any down time to get into the shop and try to figure out where in the hell I left off.

Seems I picked the right time to rejoin my fellow plane lovers.


----------



## Mosquito

dang Josh, sorry to hear that. You holding up alright otherwise?


----------



## ac0rn

Josh, Welcome back. You have been missed.


----------



## sansoo22

> dang Josh, sorry to hear that. You holding up alright otherwise?
> 
> - Mosquito





> Josh, Welcome back. You have been missed.
> 
> - Jeff


Thanks guys! I'm doing well. Immediate family is doing well. Extended family…ehhh…been better. But my parents are both back to 100% after their bouts with COVID. And more importantly back to doing their own yard work. After heading out to their place every other weekend for awhile to help with that I was able to get my house all caught up and get the one project I needed done this year knocked off the list. So now its time to relax a tad and try to enjoy my hobbies.


----------



## controlfreak

All of these cool one of a kind planes and completed projects are making me nervous.


----------



## HokieKen

Welcome back Sansoo! If it makes you feel less alone in your predicament, I'm still working on rehabbing the same plane I was working on when you went MIA ;-) Sorry to hear of the funerals and health issues. Hope everything's back on the rails now.

And just to reiterate for everyone - you *CAN* ship your Secret Santa plane whenever you want but it's not "due" until Christmas


----------



## ac0rn

Why is everyone opening presents early? We always had to wait, and wait for Christmas morning. Amazing how the rules change for parents (really just older kids). Yes, ship by Christmas, hide in the closet, place under the tree, and open Christmas morning. No peeking. :>)


----------



## controlfreak

It reminds me of the phrase "you are slow as Christmas".

Sansoo, good to see you back, sorry about your difficulties and losses. I am working on my first plane rehab and hope I can make it half as good as the ones I got from you!


----------



## bandit571

Needed a way to level the mortise for a hinge…









I think this will do the trick…


----------



## HokieKen

> It reminds me of the phrase "you are slow as Christmas".
> ...
> 
> - controlfreak


When I was a kid, I'm fairly certain my mom asked me "What are you waiting for?! Christmas?!" at least 3 times a day on average.

I'm also pretty sure that responses like "Yeah, so don't ask about it again until after Thanksgiving" are why my ass hurt so much for the bulk of my childhood…


----------



## sansoo22

> Welcome back Sansoo! If it makes you feel less alone in your predicament, I m still working on rehabbing the same plane I was working on when you went MIA ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


When I went back into the shop this weekend there were drill press parts everywhere. Not entirely sure how that goes back together but I think I took plenty of pics. The headstock of my Shopsmith was also torn down and I scribbled some notes about bearings. And of course I was also met by a stack of Rubbermaid containers with disassembled planes in them.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> When I went back into the shop this weekend there were drill press parts everywhere. Not entirely sure how that goes back together but I think I took plenty of pics. The headstock of my Shopsmith was also torn down and I scribbled some notes about bearings. And of course I was also met by a stack of Rubbermaid containers with disassembled planes in them.
> 
> - sansoo22


I can relate to that, too. I moved my press into the new shop on 3 Jan and still don't have it set back up. Now I can't remember how the motor was wired and where the two belts are.


----------



## Mosquito

Stacks of plane parts? Sound fun lol


----------



## sansoo22

Currently waiting on ONE stupid Push-lock hose to finish the much needed upgrades to my blast cabinet. Logistic supply chain nightmare finally bit me I guess. I only found one place that sells the fancy hoses for the fancy push-lock barbs by the foot and my order hasn't shipped in 12 days.

I have all new high flow fittings from compressor to the new desiccant filter / regulator assembly. I have a new high flow pick up syphon assembly and a new gun complete with fancy push lock barbs. Everything except the stupid 1/2" media hose.

That's what i get for trying to be fancy and use all push-lock kit instead of old school hose clamps…but I really hate hose clamps. And no I don't know why I hate them I just really really do.

TLDR - Once the hose shows up I will be diving back into plane work.


----------



## Mosquito

I finally broke down and got a low speed buffer on the way. Been using my drool press with wire and nylon wheels lately, figured I might as well. Going to try to get all of my Fales Patent plane bases cleaned up this winter


----------



## sansoo22

> I finally broke down and got a low speed buffer on the way. Been using my drool press with wire and nylon wheels lately, figured I might as well. Going to try to get all of my Fales Patent plane bases cleaned up this winter
> 
> - Mosquito


I think you will be very happy with a dedicated buffer. I can't imagine my shop without mine in it. I currently have a 1/2 hp high speed and will be picking up a new 1 HP dual speed when they are back in stock.


----------



## HokieKen

My buffer is a regular high speed grinder. I've about decided to get an 8" dual speed grinder to use for grinding sharpening and move my 6" VS grinder currently doing that duty to buffer duty. Then I'll probably keep the current buffer dedicated solely to wire brushing. I had pretty much settled on an 8 inch Bucktool dual speed grinder but I'm hesitant to go with a 1/2 hp motor on a grinder for grinding. It would be plenty sufficient for sharpening woodturning tools but I don't think it would be up to grinding hss tools for machining. So I'm going to continue to ponder…


----------



## Notw

I have a WEN 8" slow speed grinder for all of my grinding and turning tool sharpening needs and recently added a 6" porter cable grinder to the arsenal for wire wheel and buffing. I am not a fan of the porter cable grinder as it is under powered, but it was in budget at the time and still gets the job done.


----------



## bandit571

I also have a WEN….a "Wet Wheel Sharpening machine" that I may try out sometime….might need a new wheel, though…


----------



## bandit571

I also have a WEN….a "Wet Wheel Sharpening machine" that I may try out sometime….might need a new wheel, though…


----------



## HokieKen

> Stacks of plane parts? Sound fun lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito


What exactly do you have going on there Mos?


----------



## Mosquito

Building out a scrap plywood rack for Fales plane bases. I made two trays for the hollows and rounds since they match in dimensions, and will be making racks for both flavors of beading bases, plow/rabbit bases, nosing bases, and misc bases. Will probably have to make something else to house other pieces, and planes I imagine. Just wanted to get something together quick to get organized. Otherwise I've just got pieces of scrap plywood all over with bases sitting on them, taking up a ton of shelf space lol


----------



## HokieKen

Pretty slick Mos.


----------



## Mosquito

Took measurements and got 3 more trays designed up last night, hoping to cut them out tonight. Using the CNC because why not lol Could have just as easily set the dado stack and made a bunch of passes on the tablesaw, or even the RAS, but I've got the CNC, and I've gotta do the math anyway so might as well run it on the CNC. Plus then I have containment, and don't have to worry about anything sliding off the front or back


----------



## Notw

Who has sheets of plywood laying around as scrap in this lumber market? I can barely find hardwood plywood at BORG anymore


----------



## controlfreak

Okay hand plane experts, I have a wooden sash plane the cuts the glazing rebate at the same time as the interior profile. It is meant to leave about a 1/4 inch untouched in the middle which is the bed for the window pain. 



























If you look the adjustable knobs only constrain the outward spreading of the two pieces however I am finding my hand pressure wants to compress them. I feel like I am not holding it correctly or maybe I need place a piece of wood as a spacer in between? Please chime in to assist if you can. If this style plane dates back to the 1800's it has to be me that's doing something wrong. I am also assuming the the low edge is the reference edge so should I grab that fixed piece and only hold the large adjustable knobs with my other hand?


----------



## bandit571

"Ve haft werk to do.." 









A very heavy box arrived, today….7 planes. The "price"?

I have to rehab one of these planes, and then ship it back out to Gene Howe….









Stanley No. 4, with 3 patent dates. Has the Triangle logo on the iron, too…

A No. 6c, a No. 5-1/2c(with 3 patent dates) 2 No. 5s…and these Craftsman Sargents..









This MIGHT take a while…."Yer gonna need a bigger boat (til).."


----------



## Mosquito

Cf a lot I've seen either have wood spacers that very clamped in the middle (repeatability), or wooden nuts between the two halves

And believe it or not, I've been cutting up and throwing away a lot of plywood scraps in my shop lately. Have a lot and I just can't stand it anymore


----------



## controlfreak

> Cf a lot I ve seen either have wood spacers that very clamped in the middle (repeatability), or wooden nuts between the two halves
> 
> And believe it or not, I ve been cutting up and throwing away a lot of plywood scraps in my shop lately. Have a lot and I just can t stand it anymore
> 
> - Mosquito


Thanks Mos, I will try that.

I got to the breaking point to and was throwing out a half sheet of 3/4 PT ply just because it was in my way. What good are scraps if you can't move.


----------



## Ocelot

CF. Now I want one like that! Nuts, I think, were common, but hey whatever works has probably always been the way.

I've supposedly given up eBay now, so I'll have to wait a few years until you want to get rid of that one. Just send me a PM when you're done with it.


----------



## MikeB_UK

CF anything with an adjustable fence I've ever seen in person locks on both sides, so I'd go with Mos's idea of a scrap in the middle - I'd follow the line of the wedges for simplicity.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Just tried doing a traditional drawer bottom.

It certainly ain't going to win any prizes, but went surprisingle well, at least I can make a drawer if I don't have any ply around now.


----------



## Mosquito

> I got to the breaking point to and was throwing out a half sheet of 3/4 PT ply just because it was in my way. What good are scraps if you can t move.
> 
> - controlfreak


I haven't gotten quite that far yet , in throwing away the big pieces (but I also don't have many of those, most big pieces I keep are closer to 24"x24". Trying to limit myself more to 6"x12" or bigger


----------



## Mosquito

More progress…
3 more trays cut tonight, and my goal was to not put any bases in the rack that weren't cleaned up (irons not withstanding; I have a lot of sharpening to do, other than the hollows and rounds lol). I succeeded in that. While the CNC was cutting out the tray, I'd clean up the bases to go in it.










So that's nosing, side bead, center bead, hollows, and rounds accounted for (top to bottom)


----------



## Mosquito

> Just tried doing a traditional drawer bottom.
> 
> It certainly ain t going to win any prizes, but went surprisingle well, at least I can make a drawer if I don t have any ply around now.
> 
> - MikeB_UK


I like it Mike, that's my favorite drawer bottom approach. I only use it maybe 10% of the time, but still my favorite lol


----------



## HokieKen

How big is that thing Mos?


----------



## Mosquito

Each tray is 10×10, the whole box is about 11 wide, 10.5 deep, and roughly 17 tall


----------



## drsurfrat

And do you do anything to the plywood to keep corrosion at bay?


----------



## HokieKen

You gonna close it in so you can carry it around or leave it open and stationary? Might be good if it was portable for when you travel the country doing seminars on combo planes ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

A couple desiccant bags isn't a bad idea too.


----------



## defrosted

I went antiquing again yesterday. Beats real work sometimes. (Not sure if I am supposed to essentially advertise someones store, so erring on the side of caution, am not including that info. Feel free to yell or nudge either way.)

This trip was brought to me by dreams of the numbers 1, 2 and 8.

And there they were. Well, not a 1. But 2 through 8 spread out among 4 booths, representing at least half a dozen manufacturers or at least rebrandings. Plus 4 1/2 and 5 1/2 but no 5 1/4 was noticed. And block planes, wood bodies, molding a shave or 2…......... Never seen this many planes in person under one roof before.

And I did not buy anything.

The 2 was about $450. And I was definitely not sure a Stanley 2 is worth over 100 times as much as the Union 2 I found a couple of weeks back. Wish I could figure out how to date either one, but the 2s don't follow the same "upgrade" path of the middle sizes.

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content









vs. 








(Union 2 shown in front of my type 19 no 3 Stanley)
OK, this almost looks like 2 in the hand, one in the bush but actually in somebody's hand, no , wait,...

Maybe some day someone will teach that guy how to hold a camera…

The 8s were over half again more than I have ever paid for a plane. But the one labeled Birmingham had no detected problems. Even the wood was good, unlike the single date small nut Stanley next to. Split knob and missing horn.

The 7s were over $150 and did not look significantly better than mine.

And a fun time was had handling most of the 45 metal bodied bench planes. Retracted quite a few sharpish edges. Saw a steel bodied one in person for the first time. Saw some real strange workarounds (aka butcher jobs) like the saw handle bolted onto the plane body, through the sole… But most looked at the very least salvageable if not pretty good.

Most of the planes there are pictured in the Google Maps site for the store but again, not sure if I am supposed to advertise that.


----------



## drsurfrat

> ...
> And I did not buy anything.
> - defrosted


For a dreamer, you sure have self control. I always end up thinking "I've gotta leave w something." Seriously, those prices are about twice what I have found similar planes for, but it takes patience.

The No 2s can be dated with some of the major changes, just not as meticulously as Smith's type study. The logos still follow the type dates, the tall knob after 1919, low knob bead before 1888, The ogee frog shape after 1933, lateral lever changes, ... I don' know about the frog mating designs, though.


----------



## Mosquito

Plan for this box is stationary, the trays I'll probably paint soon. I keep desiccant bags that I get with stuff and put them in the #45 hutch, might do that with these too. I was thinking I'd make something for a door on front for now. I do run the dehumidifier in the shop, so I don't usually have much of a rusting problem out there. I'll likely pastewax and/or oil them tonight. I think keeping dust off them will be a good rust preventative right now.

Eventually I want to make something nicer, with actual drawers on one side, and cabinet on the other for the planes. Whether both sides had doors or not I'm not sure yet, that's a ways off for sure. This was mainly to get them stacked instead of sprawling lol. I'll see if this works out once I get the last two made, and make tweaks as needed. The nosing tray has just an open tray cut in it for the rest that isn't holding bases, for various small parts. The plow/rabbit/dado bases will be the most tricky I think, depending on how well I want them to fit


----------



## bandit571

From this…









High knob T-11, No. 4…to..









One evening's work…









Small wheel..3 patent dates, frog adjust screw..rosewood handles…brass"waisted" nuts..









With a Proper Logo, to boot..









Should be about ready to sent back to Gene Howe….I hope…









Ya think?


----------



## DevinT

Gorgeous


----------



## sansoo22

This batch has been done for MONTHS but had them out getting their close ups before they hit eBay so thought I'd share a group photo of them for everyone here.


----------



## rad457

What no Green in the lot?


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Sansoo, that reminds me I've gotta get some stuff prepped to list tomorrow… almost forgot about that lol


----------



## Mosquito

Right before heading in for tonight, I have the 3/8" center and side beads a run on the Fales planes



















I couldn't quite decide if the intention was to use the side bead with or without the fence. The outside of the bead base is definitely lower than the inside edge, but then the cutting edge also goes down to that part of the base as well (as in has a flat at the bottom).

But then the fence also doesn't clear the base either, so trying to make the cut with only the tiny 1/16" wide base making content, in addition to the curved profile of the iron trying to shove you off the board, it didn't really work all that well to use the fence anyway, so the second try I just skipped the fence entirely. That worked fine, but then also didn't end up quite as rounded on the outside edge, since it pushed it away slightly before the other side of the bead engaged…










I feel like this is correct, I just need to practice finding where the right "starting" point is for it


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice result, Mos. Congrats, that's got to feel rewarding!


----------



## ac0rn

Josh, It's always a pleasure to look at your work. Nice candy.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Smitty, it's nice to get it out and get some shavings made finally lol I've had it for way too long without cleaning up and using most of them.

Jeff, more fun than looking is owning ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Those suckers are some kinda shiny Sansoo! Bandit's ain't as shiny but it still looks mighty good 

Beads look sweet Mos. I still need to watch your video. Been a busy weekend…


----------



## Notw

Wow Sansoo those are gorgeous


----------



## HokieKen

Well, I didn't need that at all but for $39 I wasn't gonna let it sit there…


----------



## drsurfrat

Whoa, what a snag, Kenny.


----------



## donwilwol

^almost criminal!


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah I couldn't click fast enough on that one. It's all there too with unbroken depth adjuster parts and removable side plate with both screws present


----------



## Mosquito

it ain't real until it shows up lol I've had my share of those "Holy under priced" deals that turned in to seller canceled orders


----------



## HokieKen

> it ain t real until it shows up lol I ve had my share of those "Holy under priced" deals that turned in to seller canceled orders
> 
> - Mosquito












LOL. JK, I know it's a real possibility. But this was a relatively experienced (297 items) seller with no negative feedback so I'm hopeful. If it falls through, no biggie. It'll probably just end up being sold or swapped for something else I actually need. If I didn't already have such a good Secret Santa plane, this would be it…


----------



## sansoo22

You can send it to me as a super secret santa gift. I won't tell anyone. There are enough Miller Falls items in the shop that it won't feel lonely.


----------



## HokieKen

> You can send it to me as a super secret santa gift. I won t tell anyone. There are enough Miller Falls items in the shop that it won t feel lonely.
> 
> - sansoo22


I might do that. But it might be so SUPER SUPER secret that you don't even know about it! In fact, you may already have it. There's no way to know for sure…


----------



## Ocelot

Thanks Ken! It's lovely. How did you know I wanted it?


----------



## corelz125

I don't know how but this Union #8 arrived packed like this but it made it in one piece. Was a good deal but not as good as Kenny's thievery.


----------



## Mosquito

it's amazing that things like that can survive, yet I wrap something in 38 layers of bubble wrap, line the box with wood, and it still shows up busted lol


----------



## Ocelot

The Russians are coming.
Actually, they are here.


----------



## Ocelot

These planes were previously owned by this gentleman, Colonel Khanon Zaretsky, a WWII veteran, who died 4 years ago in Atlanta at the age of 93.









Unfortunately, he had little opportunity to use them, according to his son, from whom I purchased them. They mostly seem to be unused, though made in the 80s at the latest.

An article about him is here


----------



## HokieKen

> it ain t real until it shows up lol I ve had my share of those "Holy under priced" deals that turned in to seller canceled orders
> 
> - Mosquito


Just got a tracking number ;-p


----------



## sansoo22

> it s amazing that things like that can survive, yet I wrap something in 38 layers of bubble wrap, line the box with wood, and it still shows up busted lol
> 
> - Mosquito


I packed one so well I thought there was no way USPS could damage it without trying real hard. Yet it arrived with a corner chipped off. Crazy thing is there was no visible sign of damage to the box at all. Buyer was just as dumbfounded as I was.


----------



## corelz125

This one came UPS I don't know if they're any better than the USPS. USPS can accomplish some pretty amazing ways to destroy a package


----------



## drsurfrat

I've experienced the opposite. USPS is great, and UPS destroys boxes. Local phenomena.


----------



## bandit571

I guess these were Sargent #79s









As that number is cast into the fence…









have went and priced proper replacement parts….OUCH!...

Rehab #2 and #3 are done.


----------



## corelz125

Kenny this is your motto?


----------



## HokieKen

Rings true for me!


----------



## HokieKen

I think I have a new finishing schedule for Rosewood plane totes and knobs.









It takes a good amount of time due to curing and the number of coats but it's not labor intensive and it only takes a few coats to get the hang of it.


----------



## Ocelot

Is this the French polish?


----------



## sansoo22

Looks really good Ken. Sounds similar to my finish schedule. Lots of easy steps and patience is all it takes.


----------



## HokieKen

It is French polish. That's after 8 coats. I wish now that I had taken the time and did a better job of filling the grain. The tote looks pretty good but the knob looks pretty porous. Live and learn though. I think I'll skip the complexity of the final polishes which is basically just polishing with straight alcohol to even out any minor imperfections. But on something small and non-flat, imperfections aren't really detectable anyway. So I'm thinking I'l do one more session with my 1 lb cut dilluted to about 1/2 pound then rub that out with a final spritz of DNA then let it cure for a week and buff it up.

All in all, it's gonna take about 3 weeks to get it done but that's only about 15 minutes of hands-on every 2 or 3 days. The rest is curing time.

Sansoo - it does looks similar in sheen to several coats of wipe-on poly. But up close, it has more depth and, for me, a better feel. Of course the flip side is that it's shellac and not poly so it ain't gonna last forever.


----------



## sansoo22

I did French polish a tote long ago shortly after I got into restoring planes. I would agree it has a much better luster and deeper chatoyance than poly can provide.

If ever a time arises where I am finally decided on which set of planes are my personal users I may French polish them all.


----------



## corelz125

How durable is that finish Kenny? How does it hold up against a hot sweaty hand?


----------



## HokieKen

We'll find out Corelz but I don't expect it to be super durable. It holds up well on guitars though so maybe it can handle me fondling it from time to time? I chose this plane to experiment on because it's the #8 equivalent and won't see much use. So I figured for this one it may be okay to focus on looks more than function.


----------



## Lazyman

Kenny, Are you using an abrasive or just using oil and shellac?

I've always avoided any shellac based finish on handles because I was concerned that the moisture on your hand (sweat) would eventually cloud the finish like leaving a wet glass on a table does.


----------



## Mosquito

One of the Phillips patent planes out to play tonight










Look 'ma no spurs


----------



## DevinT

WOW Mosquito! $1k hand plane


----------



## Mosquito

I bet that never sells lol
They do have an early version, and the early irons, but they want that much with no fence? Ouch

This is the one I'll be selling shortly. It's not as nice as my other one, but I bought it because it came with a bunch of irons which I'm keeping with my other Phillips plane. Will be selling the spare iron and this plane together, hopefully soon (had it out for pictures). Realistically, for what I paid, and the irons I'm keeping from it, if I clear $100 I'll be happy.

Similar to the Fales bases, they came with a bunch of other bases I wanted, so I'll be starting to sell off the duplicates that I couldn't convince Kevin to buy 

Starting to clean house on some of the "bought the set to get what I want" items. Have a No. 8 H&R pair for a Stanley #45 that will likely be on the block next, probably followed by some more Fales bases, maybe a #45, and who knows after that what else I'll dig up.


----------



## adot45

That really looks nice Ken, I like it.


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny, Are you using an abrasive or just using oil and shellac?
> 
> I ve always avoided any shellac based finish on handles because I was concerned that the moisture on your hand (sweat) would eventually cloud the finish like leaving a wet glass on a table does.
> 
> - Lazyman


I don't sweat, I glisten.

I feel like after it's fully cured it will handle normal use fairly well. I don't think trace amounts of moisture over a fairly large surface area at near the same temperature as the shellac will cause any damage. At least not in the short term. But, it'll certainly suffer degradation over time. One of the upsides to shellac is that it's very easy to repair/refresh. Of course me actually taking the time to do so when it needs it is a whole 'nother thing…

I didn't use any abrasives like in the traditional process. I figured Cocobolo wasn't too porous so I didn't need to. I was right about that on the tote but not so much on the knob. It definitely could have used a grain filler. It looks fine and has a nice sheen but it's not glass-smooth like the tote. The traditional approach would be to apply a couple sealer coats of shellac then use some ultra fine pumice and alcohol to fill the grain. Instead, I applied two sealer coats and wet sanded it back thinking that would be good enough for grain filler. Like I said, it was on the tote but next time, I'll take the time to use the pumice and do it properly on the knob.

I'm just using shellac, DNA and mineral oil. I did the sealer coats and the first two polish coats with a 2# cut of shellac and then switched to 1# cut for the remainder of the polish coats.


----------



## Mosquito

I agree Kenny, I've used shellac quite a bit (my favorite finish), and haven't had any issues with it on handled items, but like you said it does wear through eventually. I've switched to pretty much danish oil exclusively for most shop things, but that's mainly because … well, I don't know lol


----------



## Mosquito

When I had the Fales Patent beading bases out and running loose, I also shot video of that to continue on the series. Nothing earth shattering in it, just showing its use and why I like them


----------



## Lazyman

I typically use Tried and True Varnish oil on tool handles because it just has a great feel in the hand but for the latest planes I have restored, I used DonW's recommended Rustoleum spray lacquer. So far it seems to make a nice durable finish and might even be polished to an even higher sheen I think. Sure is easy. Another thing I've been thinking of trying one of the friction finishes used for turning. -basically shellac, BLO and wax. If you sand it to high grits so that the surface is burnished and buff it out with a buffing wheel to generate some heat, it should give a French polished look, though I am not sure how durable it would be with glistening hands.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm not real sure how a friction polish would compare in appearance. I'd be interested to find out though. I do know that several things I read said not to use any drying oils like BLO in the process because it won't completely rise out of the shellac to be "spirited" off with alcohol. But, if you're doing it in a one-shop application, that's not really an issue.


----------



## Lazyman

I think that the linseed oil hardens with the heat of buffing so it serves a different purpose than the non drying oils used in a true French polish.

Below is probably the best picture I have using Myland's Friction Finish. I think that the key is to get a flawless and burnished surface before applying. One reason I like it so much is because it literally takes just a few minutes to apply several coats and it is mostly cured within about 24 hours. Most of my orbs are finished with it.










I will have to try it on a handle to see how well it holds up.


----------



## bigblockyeti

> I think that the key is to get a flawless and burnished surface before applying. One reason I like it so much is because it literally takes just a few minutes to apply several coats and it is mostly cured within about 24 hours. Most of my orbs are finished with it.
> 
> I will have to try it on a handle to see how well it holds up.
> 
> - Lazyman


What do you typically burnish with? I remember seeing Norm grab a handful of shavings from under the lathe and press them tightly in his clutched hand against a just sanded work piece spinning pretty fast. It worked well for him and it's worked pretty well for me too l, something larger like a bowl I wouldn't dare try that on as adverse consequences could be much worse.


----------



## HokieKen

I'd definitely like to see how it looked applied on a tote Nathan. Maybe I'll try it on the plane I just snagged with a best offer on ebay 









She may be the ugly stepsister but she'll keep a spot in th till warm until I stumble on the real deal.


----------



## bandit571

Ok…This little box is now upstairs, out of the way….









So those two Stanley No. 5, T-16s are now IN the shop…..Nickel plated lever caps…about 98% good….the other 2% is rather flaky…may just feather those out. Logo gets and orange, or a Red infill? Did any use Black for the infill?

Or just leave them un-painted?

Top of the one iron was mushroomed out a bit….wonder why, since it was missing the bolt between the chipbreaker and the iron…lots of "hammer adjust"?


----------



## Lazyman

> What do you typically burnish with? I remember seeing Norm grab a handful of shavings from under the lathe and press them tightly in his clutched hand against a just sanded work piece spinning pretty fast. It worked well for him and it s worked pretty well for me too l, something larger like a bowl I wouldn t dare try that on as adverse consequences could be much worse.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


I have used a brown paper bag but I usually just work my way up the grits of sandpaper. At least 600 grit but often 1000 or even 2000 grit so that the wood looks polished before I apply the finish. I've never had much luck using the shavings but have only tried it a few times.


----------



## corelz125

Found a Fulton in your price range Kenny?


----------



## HokieKen

Yep. Pretty well within my range too. Funny thing is, there was another one 2 listings below that had 4 days left and was already bid up to $81. I figured WTH and shot a lowball offer (not really but lowball compared to recent prices) and got it


----------



## HokieKen

At least I sincerely hope it's a 3708… It's not stated anywhere in the listing because I think the patina obscured the engraving on the side and the seller didn't know to look for it. It's definitely Millers Falls made based on the swell around the knob, "Made in USA" cast behind the frog, and the depth adjuster nut. So I floated my offer based on all that telling me it was MF and the tote telling me it was #3708. So I either WAY overpaid for a 3709 or got a decent deal on a 3708.

Only issue I noticed in photos (assuming I guessed right on the model) is the lateral lever needs some docking assistance.









Something new I noticed last night that may be of interest to other Ebay Shoppers: I've noticed a few minor changes to the site UI in the last week or so. But when I clicked to "submit best offer" last night, it told me that there were 2 competing offers. So evidently I was the third to submit an offer. The first two fellas must have REALLY lowballed ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Can't always get a plane for $2?


----------



## HokieKen

The rest of us never get a plane for $2 Bandit ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

^ truth lol

I got my Stanley #10 that way too. Was way dirty, and not listed as a 10, just a bench plane. $28 shipped to my door, some elbow grease and I'm a happy camper. Also my $75 Stanley #2 at a store was fun too. Even if it's not a V-logo


----------



## bandit571

> The rest of us never get a plane for $2 Bandit ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


And now you understand WHY I am called Bandit..


----------



## HokieKen

I'll swap you a MF07 skewed rabbet block plane for your #10 Mos ;-) The 07 tracking shows "out for delivery" so I guess the tool gods did smile on me at least once this week


----------



## Mosquito

haha well I do have the Keen Kutter 10-1/2 now, but I think I'll keep both  I've actually used the #10 quite a bit. Comes in handy for wide rabbets and larger tenons


----------



## donwilwol

It'll be interesting to see how that lateral is bolted on!!


----------



## TxSurveyor

Not sure if this is the best thread to post in, but seems close enough.

Restoring some planes. 2 of them have jagged lever caps. Grind them straight or leave them alone? I feel like even pressure would be best, but i also don't want to pull the contact point too far away by grinding it back.


----------



## Mosquito

As long as the contact point will still be on the hump of the chip breaker, I would grind 'em back if they were mine. Though the second one I might ignore the right corner, and just fix the rest of it, as the corner would be a lot


----------



## TxSurveyor

> As long as the contact point will still be on the hump of the chip breaker, I would grind em back if they were mine. Though the second one I might ignore the right corner, and just fix the rest of it, as the corner would be a lot
> 
> - Mosquito


Thanks!


----------



## HokieKen

Ditto to what Mos' said. I'd grind the edge back to where it was smooth and flat. As long as your pressure is still on the raised section of the chipbreaker, it'll do the job. If you wanted to move the pressure point lower, you can file the keyhole a little longer.


----------



## controlfreak

I am not sure how you would even get that type of wear on a lever cap?


----------



## donwilwol

Grinding it back will prevent it from catching the shaving. If it doesn't catch the shaving then it's really a personal choice. Like Most said, make sure it stays on the crown of the chip breaker


----------



## donwilwol

> I am not sure how you would even get that type of wear on a lever cap?
> 
> - controlfreak


Using it as a screwdriver


----------



## Ocelot

And in my one experience of "grinding" a lever cap, a diamond plate is all you need, not a grinder.


----------



## HokieKen

> I am not sure how you would even get that type of wear on a lever cap?
> 
> - controlfreak
> 
> Using it as a screwdriver
> 
> - Don W


+1



> And in my one experience of "grinding" a lever cap, a diamond plate is all you need, not a grinder.
> 
> - Ocelot


Or just a file. The lever cap isn't hardened.


----------



## sansoo22

> Using it as a screwdriver
> 
> - Don W


Every time I watch Paul Sellers do that I literally yell "STOP IT" at my monitor. Maybe he has never chipped one using it like that but I can assure you several others have.

I use a grinder to fix them. Use a small square to strike a line on the back, take a light pass or two on the grinder and check against the line, repeat. Then off to surface plate with sand paper or a file to reset the proper radius on the leading edge.


----------



## HokieKen

Twinners!


----------



## sansoo22

Outstanding condition for what you paid for it. My Stanley #140 was about 3 ballparks away from $39 bucks.


----------



## HokieKen

So was my first 07 and the 140 I had before that Sansoo. The one in the back in the above photo is the one I stole  The only issue I have found is there is some chipping at the back of the mouth.









Almost like somebody was planing boards with nails in them. Shouldn't be a functional problem. And certainly still worth double what I paid.


----------



## sansoo22

I'm a big Stanley fan but I have to admit Miller Falls FAR outclassed Stanley with the #07. The tightening wheel for the lever cap, depth adjust knurling, and hell even the way the knob is fastened just looks like its a better designed plane to me.

I "needed" the 140 for the sake of adding to my collection but for a user I would love to get my hands on a #07 to take it for a test drive.


----------



## HokieKen

I can't really say that the MF is a better user than the 140. Though my 140 did have a busted wheel to tension the cap and I had to replace the sliding piece and screw on the depth adjuster. The MF seems to be less fragile in those areas. But apples to apples, in use I can't really say I prefer one to the other. They both have a gaping mouth and it's still a PITA to get the blade aligned dead nuts and flush with the open edge. But, IMO, the skewed blade makes it more than worth the effort.


----------



## HokieKen

I've had a good week on Ebay so I ain't complaining. But, I did forget this was ending yesterday and let somebody get a smoking hot deal with no competition :-(









I'll be self-flagellating for a while over that one…


----------



## sansoo22

Is that one of the models with weird red transparent handles? I forget what the called that material.


----------



## bandit571

Until you look at the shipping costs…

Twin Jacks…one was rehabbed tonight..









May do #2 tomorrow….if I get time..









Ever take the frog off a plane….and find..









Yep, I had just torn down Jack #2….nasty mess…This MIGHT take a wee bit longer?

Tote had a clean break, so…we are back to waiting on glue to cure….again..









using it's own bolt as a clamp. Not sure I can save that nickel plate….kind of flaky..


----------



## HokieKen

> Is that one of the models with weird red transparent handles? I forget what the called that material.
> 
> - sansoo22


Yep that's the "DeLuxe" smoothing plane with Permaloid furniture and chrome galore. Everything that wasn't painted black, including the sole, cheeks and blade, was chrome plated.


----------



## TxSurveyor

<blockqoute />


----------



## TxSurveyor

> Or just a file. The lever cap isn t hardened.
> 
> - HokieKen


I must be using the wrong file. Took a swipe or two at it and wasn't to impressed. Using a 12" Nicholson mill file. Only tried on one and not the other. I will put it in a vise and put a full swipe on it.

Thanks for input everyone.

- TxSurveyor


----------



## HokieKen

Don't get me wrong TxS, I would use a grinder or belt sander personally. But the lever caps are cast iron and should be workable with a file. I was just pointing out that a file will get the job done if it's all you have. Not suggesting it's the best or fastest tool for the job ;-)


----------



## donwilwol

I have always used the belt sander usually starting with 120grit or so paper for caps


----------



## sansoo22

> I have always used the belt sander usually starting with 120grit or so paper for caps
> 
> - Don W


This is the route I would go if I had one. Maybe if that last batch of planes sells I can get one. Then again need to finish the drill press and Shopsmith restores so I have room for one.


----------



## BugeyedEarl

Finally finished all 197 pages of this thread, and must admit to skipping past a few lengthy digressions into high-tech sharpening equipment that I can't afford, but all very enlightening! If anyone needs a break from swanky infills and Liam Neeson planes, here's a cheapo I picked up as an unknown brand from an auction recently. I wasn't sure what it was, but I've spent more on a tuna melt, so what the heck…










The mark behind the mouth doesn't appear to be a chip, but a casting flaw.










Casting QA was not job one, but I like the double beads on the knob.


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content










It won't replace my 60-1/2 or 9-1/2, but the simplicity is interesting, and it's actually pretty beefy.










So it's not worth much, but it certainly has some Worth. The little symbol reminds me of something, can't quite put my finger on it…


----------



## Ocelot

Bug, A worthy little plane indeed. We need to see some shavings!

I assume that you have figured out by now that handplanes can be *extremely* addictive.

Be careful.

I had sworn off buying planes … oh, about 2-3 weeks ago. I don't really use them much, since I have some nice power tools, but today I bought 2 more - on eBay again, which I was determined not do buy *anything* on. <sigh>

A Bailey No 6, type 14. (I already have a No 6, type 15 - which was my first number 6, and 4 others)

Also an english (Mosely) wooden adjustable tongue plane. I don't think I've ever actually used tongue and groove in a project and I already have a No 148, no 45 and another wooden tongue plane. <sigh>

No more. really

-Paul


----------



## rad457

Yup no more for me either, well maybe a M.F. #7 or a you suck #62 ? Did try to sell some but that hasn't worked so well Finally got the Delta 37-212 tuned up with some new blades, had forgotten want a sweet finish straight blades leave compared to the helical heads.
Did use my Sargent 708 yesterday An a Bailey #4.


----------



## bandit571

That Worth Logo…..you might see something close to that while walking around in WalMart….


----------



## corelz125

708 Andre. How do you like the Sargent auto set?


----------



## BugeyedEarl

Well, it does work, but the blade doesn't make it easy. They didn't even grind the mill scale off the back. I got the back edge cleaned up, but I was tempted to put it in the press to see if I could get that hollow improved.










Also, I have a newfound respect for people who use planes without depth adjusters!


----------



## BugeyedEarl

> That Worth Logo…..you might see something close to that while walking around in WalMart….
> 
> - bandit571


My cat walked across my desk in front of me, and I remembered where I'd seen it before.


----------



## DevinT

I inherited a Worth brand plane from my great grandfather (link to my Sep 27 post in this thread).

Some history about Worth hand planes:

Worth Hand Planes were manufactured by Peck Stow & Wilcox Co. (which dates back to 1797 ), but Worth planes were distributed by Bigelow & Dowse Co. of Boston [1] (see below NOTE)

*NOTE*: Incorrectly spelled "Bigelow and Dowes" on timetestedtools.net

Same manufacturer as "Pexto" brand planes (combing letters from Pe[ck] to[w] & [Wilco]x to create "Pexto"), but rebranded in manufacturing as "Worth" for sale by Bigelow & Dowse (a store that sold hardware, cutlery, bicycles, and much more).










Bigelow and Dowse often changed and added to what they sold. In 1895 we can see on their billhead (below) that they specialized in "Hardware, Bicycles, and Electrical Supplies"










Whereas on the 1897 billhead (first image) we can see that they changed to advertising Hardware, Cutlery, and Bicycles. They did not stop being interested in electrical supplies, rather they were simply advertising the newest addition of products they carried (cutlery).

By the time the 1900's rolled around, Bigelow & Dowse was classified as "commercial catalog department store" selling items from these categories:

Hardware
Hand tools
Mechanics' tools
Farm tools
Automobiles and automotive equipment/accessories (including trucks and buses)
Dry-goods
Cutlery
Fencing
Rope
Home furnishings and appliances
Eelectrical goods
Sporting goods
Store ladders and fixtures

Here is a billhead that showed a rare glimpse of the inside of the store:










Bigelow & Dowse had a run at selling their own tools for a while and did so under the "B&D" brand (before the "Worth" brand).

Here is a B&D Axe for auction once made and sold by the department store under its own name.










Though there have also been Axes found with a *circular* logo that fully spells out Bigelow & Dowse, and prove exceedingly rare:










Axes are not the only tool that carried the B&D or Bigelow & Dowse name.

Saws were made by the company between 1872 and 1884. The Bigelow & Dowse logo on that saw is faint but you can make out a half-circle logo if you look closely.



















However, several times the company's ability to sell their own products (not manufactured by another company) was hampered by disaster

Timeline:

1872: "Macomber, Bigelow, & Dowse" was formed by John F. Macomber, Samuel A. Bigelow, and Charles F. Dowse after a fire destroyed large sections of Boston and with it every hardware house in the city.

1884: "Bigelow & Dowse" was formed, (unincorporated) after partner John F. Macomber retired on account of illness.

1894: "Bigelow & Dowse" incorporated under Boston law as "The Bigelow & Dowse Company".

January 28, 1903: Franklin Street building destroyed by fire. Rebuilt on original site later that year.

and fast forward 22 years:

From 1925 to 1950 Bigelow and Dowse contracted with Peck Stow & Wilcox to create the Worth brand of tools.

When Peck Stow & Wilcox was sold in 1950 to Billings & Spencer, Worth planes ended.

You can find hammers, punches, plane Irons and more with the Worth branding.

Researching the Bigelow family, ...

The Bigelow family (starting with Augustus) were board members of several iron associations in the New England area for generations. That is why you generally find the Worth branding on the iron or steel component that they made, put inside some brand-less body made by someone else (e.g., Pexto body plane without brand with a Worth brand iron).


----------



## Ocelot

Fountain of knowledge


----------



## BugeyedEarl

Very interesting, thanks for the history lesson Devin! I did see your inherited Worth plane in my earlier reading, it's very cool that you managed to get it to make some shavings.

I have an obscure hand saw that I inherited from my grandfather (along with a lot of his other tools,) but haven't found any history on the manufacturer at all. It still means a lot to me because I spent lots of time with Grandpa as he worked on my parent's house.

I also found another member's comparison of a similar block plane to two others (but the search limitations are making it tricky to find again.)

**edit: this is the comparison I referred to, it was another site entirely.

This little plane isn't something I'd likely use for real work, I just wanted to grab it because my curiosity got the best of me.


----------



## corelz125

Paul the trick is to keep yourself too busy to even browse ebay. Once you get the free time and start browsing it turns in a black hole of plane browsing. Sooner or later you find something just too good to pass by or one that's a decent price and why not throw a bid out there. Then the next thing you know you won and how are you going to get to the mail first.


----------



## DevinT

> and how are you going to get to the mail first.


Been there


----------



## BugeyedEarl

> Bug, A worthy little plane indeed. We need to see some shavings!
> 
> I assume that you have figured out by now that handplanes can be *extremely* addictive.
> 
> Be careful.
> 
> I had sworn off buying planes … oh, about 2-3 weeks ago. I don t really use them much, since I have some nice power tools, but today I bought 2 more - on eBay again, which I was determined not do buy *anything* on.
> 
> A Bailey No 6, type 14. (I already have a No 6, type 15 - which was my first number 6, and 4 others)
> 
> Also an english (Mosely) wooden adjustable tongue plane. I don t think I ve ever actually used tongue and groove in a project and I already have a No 148, no 45 and another wooden tongue plane.
> 
> No more. really
> 
> -Paul
> 
> - Ocelot


I'm trying to be selective about it, but I did notice that I've got some overlap going on already. Still, I think I can quit any time…


----------



## rad457

> 708 Andre. How do you like the Sargent auto set?
> 
> - corelz125


Brain Fart, #407, no idea why I was thinking 708, all Kenny's fault
Was using the new Stanley #62 to square off some Oak end grain and sure wish there was a PMV-11 iron for it!


----------



## rad457

*I'm trying to be selective about it, but I did notice that I've got some overlap going on already. Still, I think I can quit any time…*

LOL! Sure you can, when that Craftsman showed up I knew I had a problem. The Millers Falls I could understand some what, but not sure about those Winchesters


----------



## Ocelot

Checked the auction already this AM


----------



## drsurfrat

> ...
> My cat walked across my desk in front of me, and I remembered where I d seen it before.
> - BugeyedEarl


OK, I just got that.

I do the same when I find a curiosity. Especially when I don' know what it is. Then I get to clean it up and dig out its history. Usually I find it wasn't worth even the $5 I paid, but sometimes it is a gem. I know I am not alone.


----------



## corelz125

Andre now you need a 708. Quitting is for losers.


----------



## HokieKen

And how is that my fault? I didn't even know what a 708 is ;-)

I do however have a *707* recent delivered from Santa DonW.


----------



## HokieKen

Earl, that little 110 clone is a common design. Everybody who made planes made one like that and they were the ones homeowners picked up at the hardware store to get a door to quit dragging or fix a sticky window. So there's lots of them in the used market and while they lack depth adjusters and moveable throats, that doesn't make them useless. A person that can sharpen and tune one can have a dozen of them set up and tuned for different tasks for the price of a #60 or 9-1/2.

So keep it handy. You never know when a door will drag or a window will stick ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Ok…those 2 Stanley No. 5 Jack planes have been rehabbed…however..they are NOT twins,,,









This one IS a Type 16Note the frog's seat…now..note the other one…









The center rib is now in the shape of a Wishbone…...Type 19…









Also note the tops of the irons? Type 19 being more rounded…









All rehabbed up…T-19, T-16…









Rear views…note the different wood for the handles….









Jointing some Ash…with the T-19….









And the 2 from the Tool Chest…...Can never have too many Jack planes? (says the guy with 4 M-F #14s…)

Anyone like a jack plane?


----------



## bandit571

Ok…will start on the Stanley No. 5-1/2c on Sunday…I hope…


----------



## Ocelot

I never bought a 5 1/2. I've got 6 no 6s though. A no 6 cost me half a 5 1/2 so I figured I didn't need a 5 1/2 but that was when I was still thinking you buy these to use. So maybe I need a 5 1/2 now that I know the real deal.


----------



## donwilwol

A story behind the simple block plane

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2019/05/22/the-simple-block-plane/


----------



## donwilwol

A story behind the simple block plane

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2019/05/22/the-simple-block-plane/


----------



## corelz125

That's a good write up Don. I read that awhile ago. That Birdsill Holly still cost 3 or more weeks of pay.


----------



## ac0rn

Don, Thanks for the morning read.


----------



## rad457

Great read, funny did a sharpening on my L.N. 60 1/2 rabbet and realized that it was probably the first time and 
I actually used a screwdriver handle tap to fine tune blade skew


----------



## defrosted

So I still have not made any totes. Been a bit distracted. But I need to get started, But I have a question about the tools actually used to create the original totes. If you look at the picture above with the type 19 and the earlier one, you see the 19 has basically flat sides and a round-over on the edges as if it was run through a router, while the earlier ones are contoured, carved, shaped quite a bit more, ughh, ?? organically?

Stanley and other manufacturers pumped out millions of these totes of very similar outline and dimensions all with eliptical-ish cross-section. How? hundreds of guys with carving knives and chisels, files, etc.? Consistently turning out very usable and consistently shaped handles and knobs? What tools were actually used, how many man hours did it actually take to produce a tote that was not simply cut as a flat shape and rounded over? Or did they have a router bit that was not just a quarter circle? Is there a better round-over router bit available?


----------



## HokieKen

I've no doubt that most of the totes were shaped on shapers with special jigs and custom ground cutters. Earlier ones were probably shaped by drawknife and spokeshave but in mass production, that would have been extremely inefficient and costly.


----------



## Ocelot

I bet they were shaped by ladies if it was done by hand.


----------



## bandit571

Wide bodies, anyone?









2 from Stanley..but…









This one kind of fits inbetween the other two….Oldest?









There are a few signs the other Stanley is a bit newer..









Besides the lack of any Patent dates…..Older one also has this…









On the bottom of it's frog….iron IS 2-3/8" wide…underside of chipbreaker was blued…









This one MIGHT take longer than the "usual" 90 minutes to rehab…maybe…?









Older Stanley is a #5-1/2 c model….newer one is a smooth soled one…as is the Millers Falls No. 15…

Knee is acting up, today…will have to wait a day, or two….


----------



## donwilwol

> I've no doubt that most of the totes were shaped on shapers with special jigs and custom ground cutters. Earlier ones were probably shaped by drawknife and spokeshave but in mass production, that would have been extremely inefficient and costly.
> 
> - HokieKen


I've never seen anything for plane totes, but hand saw totes where made by hand for a long time. They trained skilled labor to make them. I would bet plane tote where the same deal, but I have no evidence to back that up.


----------



## bandit571

The iron on the #5-1/2c seems to have been Japanned black….and not very well….kind of lumpy…..all gone, now…

Left the blue on the back of the chipbreaker. Front is nice and shiny, now.

Off to research that other No. 5-1/2…..might be an 18, or 19?


----------



## bandit571

Drawing a blank….no flat ribs at the toe or heel. Diagonal knurling on the Large Depth adjuster wheel (Brass)

Casting is a lot thicker….Top of frog has the "S" Curve to it. In front of knob is BAILEY, and behind the knob is Made in USA…..Plane size is on the back porch….Lever cap has the Notched corner STANLEY logo….with black infill.

Hardwood handles that WERE painted black( was flaking off, went ahead and stripped what was left)

Seems to be either a Type 18…..or? Stamped into the iron is a date code…140…1st quarter of 1940….Hmmm…

The No. 5-1/2c is pure Type 16…...not sure what this other one is…any clue?

BTW; The Millers Falls is a Type 3….


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Whats the plan with the type 18? Is that a keeper?


----------



## bandit571

I have had the T-18 for quite a few years…been using the M-F #15, lately. Sooo…not sure which of the 2 Stanley planes I'll keep…yet…


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Ah I see. No worries, I kinda like type 18 &19 for some reason.


----------



## sansoo22

Bandit I'm not sure what type that is. It definitely sounds like a type 18 except I've never seen one with a black infilled logo. That date code on the iron isn't right for a Type 18 but I have found a few with date stamped irons from 1940 or 1941 and just assumed it was a replacement iron from another plane.

My current crop of Type 18s all have orange infill logos. Both the #5 and #5c have ribs at the toe and heel but the #5-1/4 does not. Altho I can't recall ever seeing a 5-1/4 with them.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Ah I see. No worries, I kinda like type 18 &19 for some reason.
> 
> - Thedustydutchman


I know what you mean, but the 18s can also be a little weird sometimes.

I have a 4C, a 5, a 5C and a 6 (all made in Canada) and I've sold off a 5c (made in USA). Most of my Canadian 18s have the T19 wishbone-style base for the frog. Also, all of my Canadian-made T18s have the diagonal knurling going in the opposite direction to the knurling on the USA-made T18 that I sold or all of the USA-made ones I've seen on the net, although PoopieCat has seen an American-made T18 with knurling like mine. Sometimes the knurling is very crisp like this one and sometimes it's very poorly done and appears almost worn off.

The totes are a mix of rosewood and black-painted hardwood of some kind.


----------



## Ocelot

Jerry, I've never sold a plane, though I did give one away recently. That said, since you like type 18, I should mention that I have a type 18, no 7 …

I have 6 no 7s altogether, so I should, you know…

... well anyway.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Oh id love a type 18 no 7! My current no 7 is a k7 with a very old repair from being dropped. It works ok but not great.

I just picked up a type 18 no4 that is currently in progress of being brought back to life. I love the diagonal knurling. Not a huge fan of the black painted knob and tote but I usually strip them and oil em anyway. They do seem to need a bit more fetteling than the older ones but im drawn to them. My early t19 no5 is my very favorite plane, it makes me smile every time I pick it up and works just beautifully.


----------



## Ocelot

I sanded off the paint and put walnut Danish oil on the lumber. There's a picture of it on LJ somewhere. Hold on, I'll find it.


----------



## bandit571

My Stanley No. 7c is a Type 9, sorry. The single No. 8 in the shop ( slacker!) is a type 7…...

The "new to me" Stanley No. 6c that I still have to rehab…is a Type 17….iron's date code is 243. Has the composite depth adjuster wheel. My spares box had to provide the bolt between the iron and the chipbreaker.

Hmmm..did Stanley make a No. 5-1/2c in an "H" model? As the base on that T-18 is twice as thick as "normal" planes…..matches the thickness of that "war time" No.6c,T-17….."Very IN ter est ing.."


----------



## BugeyedEarl

Pretty good day at the flea market yesterday.

I came home with a lifetime supply of Norton abrasive pads, a sharp dovetail saw, a Bailey No 3 (type 16, I think), and the rest came from from various $1 tables. I was most surprised to find the Stanley Rule & Level iron for a buck, and it still has plenty of life in it!


----------



## bandit571

Those "4-in-Hands" come in very handy.

Drill bits look good…is there a #3 in the back? #3 = 3/16"

Looks like a good haul…


----------



## BugeyedEarl

Yes, I organized my file drawer recently and realized I was dangerously low on rasps, so the four in hands were a must! The bits were 3 through 6, Irwin and one Russell Jennings. A little while later, I found a guy selling a complete set that looked to be nickel plated in a tool roll, but I already have everything I need, so I passed.


----------



## sansoo22

My current crop of type 18s. We have a #5, #5c, #5-1/4, #40, and not sure the #71 fits this era but it has black handles so its part of the black handle crew.

I'm not even a fan of type 18s all that much. I think they look pretty bad ass with the beach handles died black tho. The totes sometimes pick up this faint ghost grain lines that I think gives them a pretty interesting look.









The two #5s I'm selling off cuz I think at last count there are 15 jack planes in my shop that I know of.


----------



## HokieKen

Everybody remember to post photos when you receive a plane from your Secret Santa please. We all want to see what you got and I'm trying to keep track as folks get a package so we can make sure nobody ends up empty-handed come Christmas


----------



## controlfreak

Mine is still in pieces but I am working on it.


----------



## Ocelot

Sansoo stuff is always amazing!

Mine don't look like that.


----------



## HokieKen

> Mine is still in pieces but I am working on it.
> 
> - controlfreak


No problem. You've still got a month and a half ;-)



> Sansoo stuff is always amazing!
> 
> Mine don t look like that.
> 
> - Ocelot


I dunno, I'm a little disappointed in that photo. I can't see my reflection in the lever cap on that 5-1/4 like I can the other two. He must have been tired that week ;-)


----------



## Johnny7

> Sansoo stuff is always amazing!
> 
> Mine don t look like that.
> 
> - Ocelot


I am a minimalist when it comes to cleaning up old tools. Part of the reason this works for me is that I pass on things that need a lot of help-in other words, they're in pretty darn good shape to begin with.

Nevertheless, I must agree-Sansoo's rehabs are indeed impressive.


----------



## sansoo22

> I dunno, I m a little disappointed in that photo. I can t see my reflection in the lever cap on that 5-1/4 like I can the other two. He must have been tired that week ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Sorry to disappoint Ken. Polished cast iron is a bit tougher to get a mirror finish than actual nickel. I will spend more time at the buffer next time.


----------



## Ocelot

I'll take that 5 1/4 any day.

My only 5 1/4 (I also have one or 2 household jacks) was apparently owned by a person named Moran, who scratched his name (faintly, by some mercy) into every single part of it.


----------



## HokieKen

> ... I will spend more time at the buffer next time.
> 
> - sansoo22


I recently read a blog post from Greg Ricketts at aPlaneLife on how he gets planes so shiny. Roughly 5 hours standing at the buffer per plane. I don't like shiny that much…


----------



## bandit571

This didn't take quite THAT long..









Stanley No. 5-1/2c









"Reflections of, the way life used to be.."










Almost too shiney….Someone else must have liked the Taller knobs…and replaced the OEM Low knob….otherwise this IS a Type 11. 









Groovy, Man!


----------



## RWE

That is a "Supreme"s job.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

That is my style of restoration. Most of mine look similar to that. Maybe not that nice but close. I get em clean, straight and sharp and put em to work. I started out repainting and polishing etc but found i liked them better with the patina.

The no 4 t-18 im currently working on has a lot of pitting in the plating on the lever cap. What's the best way to deal with that? I dont have a sandblaster. I got it smooth enough just wondering if it could look a bit better.


----------



## bandit571

I wire wheeled mine…then the cloth wheel with green compound..









To..


----------



## controlfreak

I am the proud owner of two Sansoo planes, They work as good as they look too.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> The no 4 t-18 im currently working on has a lot of pitting in the plating on the lever cap. What s the best way to deal with that? I dont have a sandblaster. I got it smooth enough just wondering if it could look a bit better.
> 
> - Thedustydutchman


Sandblasting won't help much with pitting. Only real option to remove pitting is to sand or grind it out. For lever caps, I usually use my belt grinder and work the whole thing evenly. You can do the same by hand if you don't have a belt sander to speed the process. After you're happy with the pitting, work up through higher grits to achieve the finish you want.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

I think I'll try hitting it a bit harder with the grinder and see what it does. I was just worried about going to far and making it look worse. Id almost like to strip the plating off.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

I get depressed every time Sansoo22 post a shiny restored hand plane picture. :-(
But I don't want him to stop. 

Pour some w(h)ine:

His gorgeous work reminds me I am a Klutz. One who has worked in shop ~12 hours in last 2-1/2 months, and way too many dream projects.

Due health limitations, don't have enough vertical hours in a week; much less time required for me to produce shiny hand planes. Takes me couple days to make time for a simple Bandit like restoration. 

Have a stack of Stanley Bedrock planes and #10; all sitting in 'to be restored' storage boxes. The Bedrock planes were bought with intention of replacing my generic Stanley planes, to have a 'Bedrock' user set. But this is just one dream, like many of the restoration projects laying around the Klutz Zoo. 
Digressing, have four TS, edge sander, and shaper in machine restoration pile. Plus SWMBO keeps asking if her 2020 blanket chest Christmas present will get done this Christmas or next year. Seems I missed getting it done for her B-day today. :-(0)

Sadly this means; the hand plane restorations have to wait, and wait…..

And that is why every time I see a shiny Sansoo22 plane, I get depressed.

Happy hour is over, get back to work.

Have a great day.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

I'm working on a shelton no 9 (no4 equivalent) and I am in need of a tote. I might try to make one but I've never done that before. Does anyone happen to have one laying around they would part with? I should probably just put this one on the parts bin but I just like this plane for some reason and want to save it. The rest is in great condition.


----------



## sansoo22

Does it need to be a Shelton tote?

I have this most likely Stanley tote I won't be using for anything I restore you are welcome to.


















Its a little worse for wear and was repaired at some point in time in its life but free if you want it.


----------



## Mosquito

Speaking of parts bin, anyone want a crack at this 140?


----------



## bandit571

Started a tear down of that War Time Stanley No. 6c…..start with the lever cap..









Flat black (sub-dued?) paint only on the face of the lever cap? The Underside?









What some might see as a "B"...is actually an "8". Will Look up that patent number later…

Frog has…"issues"....









That is the bolt for the frog adjust clip…missing 1/2 of the head. From the slot out. Will need to find a bolt to replace it….

lateral lever: 









Best picture I can get right now, but..IF you can make out the "Y" ( in STANLEY) you see the name is NOT centered on the lever…it is right at the edge, instead…

One frog bolt was loose. Chipbreaker was missing it's bolt ( spares box to the rescue, again)....haven't found anything else, really. Handle bolts that should have been Blued, are shiny steel. 
This might take awhile….


----------



## HokieKen

Still need to work up the blade and chipbreaker and polish the lever cap a bit. But I couldn't resist a little sneak peak ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Patent number is for that kidney shaped hole in the lever cap….dates from 1933 era….

That "8" might just be a mold cavity number…not sure about the "U".

Will search my other 2 spares boxes, and see about a replacement bolt for "Half head"

Must have been either a new-hire, or close to quitting time at Stanley…..stamp operator almost missed the lever…

"Very INT er est ing….."


----------



## HokieKen

> …anyone want a crack at this 140?
> 
> - Mosquito


Looks like it comes with its own crack ;-)


----------



## bandit571

OK..Spares Box #3…had a Stanley Bolt for the toe of the totes…I merely have to cut it down to length.Frog adjust clip will have it's "new" bolt…

I MIGHT have a tote that would fit that Shelton #4….would know IF I can see what the bottom of the Shelton tote looks like….is there a small hole under the toe? Or, a slot…?


----------



## Mosquito

> …anyone want a crack at this 140?
> 
> - Mosquito
> 
> Looks like it comes with its own crack ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Or like 3 lol The threaded part of the little casting that moves the iron is repaired as well. I think there's two small hairline cracks in the lever cap palm rest area too. Basically, anyone need a #140 iron? lol


----------



## BlasterStumps

that MF jointer is looking great Kenny. I really like that tote. Ain't nobody got anything on you when it comes to making 'em purdy. Nice job.


----------



## donwilwol

Flagged with care


----------



## Thedustydutchman

I believe the tote has a slot under it. The issue im running into with all my other spares is the bolt (screw?) That goes through the tote to hold it on is much more upright than all my others so it won't line up with the threads correctly.


----------



## DLK

> I believe the tote has a slot under it. The issue im running into with all my other spares is the bolt (screw?) That goes through the tote to hold it on is much more upright than all my others so it won t line up with the threads correctly.
> 
> - Thedustydutchman


Do you have any part of the original tote?

I was going to say that it may be hard to match up where the bolt runs through a stanley tote. So i think you should make your own. I would copy the this pattern for the stanley #3 tote provided by Lee Valley and modify it to fit the shelton.


----------



## drsurfrat

> Speaking of parts bin, anyone want a crack at this 140?
> 
> - Mosquito


I will *if no one else wants to*. I have a MF07 for use, but have lots of Stanley parts that might complete it.


----------



## HokieKen

In addition to the blade Mos', I know the wheel that tightens the lever cap is often found broken and the little piece that slides to adjust depth is often found with stripped threads. Somewhere, somebody is searching for those.


----------



## HokieKen

> that MF jointer is looking great Kenny. I really like that tote. Ain t nobody got anything on you when it comes to making em purdy. Nice job.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Thanks Mike. There are lots of guys that make them prettier. If I spent the time and effort that guys like Sansoo do, I'd never use them for fear of scratches or fingerprints ;-) The lighting last night was kinda harsh so I snapped one in the morning sun.









Not thrilled with that one either. I'm trying to capture how nice the French polish looks on that tote but I just don't think I'm going to be able to. I'm very pleased with how the tote came out. Even if the horn repair doesn't blend at all…


----------



## Mosquito

> In addition to the blade Mos , I know the wheel that tightens the lever cap is often found broken and* the little piece that slides to adjust depth is often found with stripped threads*. Somewhere, somebody is searching for those.
> 
> - HokieKen


The threads aren't stripped, which is an upside. It's also been cracked and attempted to be repaired (still cracked) lol


----------



## HokieKen

Would anybody happen to have a Millers Falls #8 or #11 (looking at you Bandit ;-p) or any parts from them that they would want to unload? I've decided I want to put a MF lever cap on my Fulton 3708 and there aren't spare parts from the #7 planes floating around. So I think I'll take a 1-3/4" cap and mill the sides to "fake it". But a 2" cap won't work because I would have to mill too close to the recessed name and it would look off. And I've been in need of a proper depth adjuster nut for my #8 anyway. So if I could pick up a parts plane, that would scratch both itches 

Just thought I'd float it here before I go pay too much on Ebay. Which I'll probably end up doing anyway…


----------



## bandit571

Spare #3 sized plane…









Craftsman No. 3C









With a Dunlap Iron….









Anything here of interest? 









There is a "3C" stamped into the side …

Otherwise, a dead-ringer for a M-F No. 8….


----------



## HokieKen

Dang, so close Bandit! I could use the depth adjuster nut but that's about it. I need a 3-point lever cap with the Millers Falls name on it. I'd hate to make a complete plane like that with the decal still on the tote into a parts plane.

I'd probably still buy it if the price was right though since it is MF made and in such good shape. So let me know if you want to sell it!


----------



## DanKrager

I have no idea if this was done by or for any maker of plane totes, but copy carvers were used extensively for production carving. Things like military rifle stocks for the war effort were made 32 and 48 at a time on these giant machines. Of course, touch up by hand was necessary as the carvers only roughed things out of a blank.

I'm betting someone has been guilty of making plane totes of the original form with their CNC in the garage….

DanK


----------



## DevinT

Hold on, let me go get my book called "Router Magic" by Bill Hylton … there's a tool you should see …


----------



## HokieKen

Panto router seems too labor intensive to me unless you're doing production quantities with multiple routers and a big machine. CNC is certainly the way to go if batching them out. I imagine that's what most of the folks that sell tote/knob sets are doing.


----------



## DevinT

"Router Duplicator" on page 19 under "Carving" section of "Router Magic" by Bill Hylton


----------



## drsurfrat

I remember seeing a *film* of WWII rifle stocks being made in parallel like Dan Krager said. A dozen or more stocks rotating around and each being shaped by a cutting head all in concert. The closest I could find was a reference on vintage machinery about a rifle lathe


----------



## DevinT

It often makes me wonder if the occasional aluminum tote wasn't actually inspired by a similar pattern tote used for a copier like the rifle lathe


----------



## DanKrager

'nother 93 posts and have to start a new thread?

DanK


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Ok, back from work so I can play in the shop again. I do have the tote but it has been massacred. It looks like it was sanded down and then someone tried to do some sort of something with epoxy. Terrible. I might try to save it but I'd like to attempt making my own. Just trying to convince myself this shelton deserves that kind of attention.


----------



## DLK

Having the massacred tote will give you clues to what the bottom should look like, how to drill for the rod and what the tote should look like. You can probably deduce the first tow but having the tote will give you more confidence.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

I think I'll attempt it. Can't hurt anything anyway! If it works, great. If not, its definitely not a huge loss. I dont even remember where the shelton came from but its got a nice feel to it so I'll see what it turns out like. Thanks for the advice everyone, ill keep you all posted


----------



## bandit571

The last of Gene's planes are done…









Stanley No. 6c, Type 17…









That be a lot of grooves…









Once it started making shavings….









It was hard to stop…way too much fun….Test Track is Ash 1×6…










Yep, having way too much fun…


----------



## DevinT

So, I am sitting here reading Plane Craft-as one often does-and I'm slowly plodding through the Glossary (learning all the British terms) and I am cruising through letter "C" and happen upon …

Corrugated Base.

Oh, awesome, maybe this 1959 book from England can answer what corrugated bases are for.

Oh, how awesomely relevant, bandit just posted such a plane, perfect timing!

Here is what Plane Craft says:



> Corrugated Base-
> The base of the "C" series of Record Smooth, Jack, and Jointer Planes, in which
> a series of semi-circular grooves is machined longitudinally along the sole. It
> is sometimes found when planing thin and comparatively wide boards that, as
> the surface becomes true, a suction is created between the face of the board
> and the sole of the plane, due to a combination of an accurately machined
> and practically non-wearing sole and accurate work on the part of the user. The
> corrugations allow just enough air between the surfaces to break the vaccuum
> and prevent the suction, which can be enough to lift the board with the plane
> under favourable circumstances. Hence, those who have much face side planing
> to do will find that a corrugated base plane will ease the work. The corrugations
> further assist by holding a little of the libruicant (oil, paraffin wax, etc.) which
> is applied to the sole of the plane when working.


----------



## sansoo22

That explanation definitely makes a lot of sense in theory and is probably the best one I've ever heard of for the corrugated soles. In practice I am not sure I've ever run across an old plane machined accurately enough for that to be an issue though. Although at last count I've only restored/tuned 91 planes so my sample size is not that large.


----------



## DevinT

But what about after they get the sansoo treatment?

Edit:

I've experienced the issue with my Veritas smoother and Stanley No 8 when using wax and working the face of thin boards. Never put two and two together. Sudden urge to buy corrugated planes now for those occasions of working thin boards with just a plane stop


----------



## HokieKen

Personally, I have no preference between corrugated and smooth soles. My collection is a mix of both. Never had a plane suck a board up but it's certainly feasible. Especially if oil or wax are involved.

I still think, after all the marketing hype is sorted through, it simply came down to less tooling wear when machining the soles. A cost-saving measure touted as a feature.


----------



## sansoo22

Tout it enough as a feature and you get guys buying 2 of some types just to make sure they don't have the suction cup issue.

I'm wondering how thin and wide the board would have to be to make it light enough for that to happen. My type 11 #6 is probably the flattest and widest plane I have that isn't corrugated. Devin has me curious if it will suction to a board now.


----------



## Mosquito

I prefer corrugated because it's a heck of a lot faster to flatten by hand lol Beyond that, I've never noticed an appreciable difference as far as that's concerned. It does seem like I need to wax my LN planes more often in use though (non corrugated)


----------



## ac0rn

I too use both, without any real discernible difference. All of my planes also get waxed.


----------



## defrosted

On Estatesales.net there is a sale in Wisconsin that appears to have walls of planes. Anyone we know here?


----------



## CaptainKlutz

I have one each size with smooth bottom and corrugated bottom in my user plane collection.

Besides the 'stiction' issues mentioned above; find the corrugated bottom advantage only on longest (#6, 7, 8) and wider (#4-1/2 & 5-1/2) hand planes. Smaller #4/5 planes work about same on 3/4-4/4 lumber, regardless of bottom surface. When smoothing a large panel, definitely use less wax as grooves hold and release wax with heat due friction. Corrugated bottom also seems less tiring on heavier planes when used for long duration. Seem to notice that more as I get older? lol

At same time, the corrugations are PITA when edge jointing boards. The grooves can catch on edges, and change the angle. Skewing the plane does not prevent it. Edge jointing is when I reach for the smooth bottom planes.

YMMV


----------



## donwilwol

When I edge joint, I hold the front of the plane with my finger on the bottom to act as a guide. The corrugations will sometimes pinch. Other than that, I've never seen a difference.

I don't have a preference either. What ever one is sharp


----------



## donwilwol

When I edge joint, I hold the front of the plane with my finger on the bottom to act as a guide. The corrugations will sometimes pinch. Other than that, I've never seen a difference.

I don't have a preference either. What ever one is sharp


----------



## corelz125

Mos said it the best. The advantage of corrugated planes It's a lot easier flattening the big planes. Devin the #8 you tuned was corrugated? When using a #8 it's never felt stuck to a board from suction.


----------



## HokieKen

That is true. Flattening definitely goes faster with corrugated soles. I'm glad my MF24 is corrugated or I might still be working on the bottom of that bastard.


----------



## rad457

> That is true. Flattening definitely goes faster with corrugated soles. I m glad my MF24 is corrugated or I might still be working on the bottom of that bastard.
> 
> - HokieKen


Send it to DevinT?


----------



## DevinT

One day I shall own a precision grinding machine so I can service all your needs.


----------



## Notw

> That is true. Flattening definitely goes faster with corrugated soles. I m glad my MF24 is corrugated or I might still be working on the bottom of that bastard.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> Send it to DevinT?
> 
> - Andre


Her arms are probably still sore from doing her No. 8, I know mine would be


----------



## HokieKen

> One day I shall own a precision grinding machine so I can service all your needs.
> 
> - DevinT


You obviously have no inkling as to the breadth and depth of my needs ;-)


----------



## donwilwol

> One day I shall own a precision grinding machine so I can service all your needs.
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> You obviously have no inkling as to the breadth and depth of my needs ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


or the absurdities of such


----------



## DevinT

> One day I shall own a precision grinding machine so I can service all your needs.
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> You obviously have no inkling as to the breadth and depth of my needs ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


So what you're saying is, ... you need a small bank of precision grinding machines working in concert around the clock to handle all the planes you have? I can imagine that. Question is …

What would you do with all those flat soles? Start a plane business? Need a partner?


----------



## HokieKen

You didn't specify planes. You just said "all" my needs. You'll need some 5 axis machines, lasers, water-jets and cnc lathes in addition to your grinder ;-)


----------



## DevinT

Touché


----------



## HokieKen

I'm very high maintenance ;-)


----------



## rad457

> I'm very high maintenance ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


I can't imagine that, thought ya drove a Ford?


----------



## DevinT

*


----------



## bandit571

Hmmmm…









and









A Shelton No. 18…..


----------



## HokieKen

My Santa plane is on its way to its forever home and should be there Saturday. Because I shipped it "2 Day Priority" on Tuesday morning and… you know… Saturday is 2 days after Tuesday. I also checked the tracking on it this morning and see the USPS is already using their standard holiday tracking protocol where it goes from "Package Recieved" to "In Transit to Final Destination" for some indeterminable amount of time to "Delivered" eventually. Hopefully. I will say, *knock on wood*, I have never had a package I shipped lost or damaged so bad that the item inside was damaged though so I'll let their antiquated system and rising prices slide ;-)


----------



## Notw

I wish my work used the USPS days of the week calendar


----------



## Ocelot

Mos, Have you noticed that there is a Fales for sale on the bay?


----------



## sansoo22

> My Santa plane is on its way to its forever home and should be there Saturday. Because I shipped it "2 Day Priority" on Tuesday morning and… you know… Saturday is 2 days after Tuesday.
> 
> - HokieKen


They do have today off for Veteran's Day and you have to figure in Friday as a "well ******************** I gotta go back to work" day so really Saturday is the second day after Tuesday once you figure in the day off and the loss of productivity on Friday.


----------



## DevinT

> Mos, Have you noticed that there is a Fales for sale on the bay?
> 
> - Ocelot


Jeebus. Is that a Multi-Plane or what?


----------



## Ocelot

I thought Mos had two of those.


----------



## Ocelot

I dug out my Bailey No 7, type 18. It looks better than I remember and I was astonished to discover that I had not sharpened the blade. It doesn't look like my work and it has a big camber on it. So, I think I'll sharpen it up and see about Sasoo-ing the lumber. I had sanded off the black paint which was in bad shape and tried to darken it with walnut danish oil, which left the wood fairly blonde.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

I just can't help but love that one! The color on the tote looks nice to me and that diagonal knurling….I dont know why but I just love that too


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Well here's the cleaned up shelton no9 with the world's ugliest tote. I ended up using my dremel to get most of the epoxy off the tote and get it to the point that its comfortable to use. I should have taken a before picture cause it was just terrible. I'm not really happy with it but it works. Still planning on making a new one but this will do for now. This plane actually seems like it might be a decent user surprisingly. I have no idea how to date this one but it definitely seems very similar to many of my Stanleys. I think Stanley did buy them out?


----------



## DLK

So who outbid me for the "Metallic Plane Company - Plow plane"?










Whoever it was, I thank you. I was in it way to deep! It would have been very cool to have.


----------



## DLK

^ Sold for $162.50


----------



## bandit571

Here I am..trying to figure out where to put TWO No. 79s and a Ward's #78 when the case only holds the ward's, a Stanley No. 39-3/8", and a Sandusky skewed rebate plane…May need to build another case?


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos, Have you noticed that there is a Fales for sale on the bay?
> 
> - Ocelot


Of course I have lol



> I thought Mos had two of those.
> 
> - Ocelot


I have three plane bodies, actually . It's the bases I don't have too many duplicates of, and that set would be a ton of duplicates to sort through, and I'm not sure Kevin would buy enough of them lol



> Jeebus. Is that a Multi-Plane or what?
> 
> - DevinT


Kinda, the bases are added to the main plane, and have different irons that go with each. I've made a handful of videos about that plane, and have posted some pictures in this thread over the past couple weeks


----------



## BugeyedEarl

> I dug out my Bailey No 7, type 18. It looks better than I remember and I was astonished to discover that I had not sharpened the blade. It doesn t look like my work and it has a big camber on it. So, I think I ll sharpen it up and see about Sasoo-ing the lumber. I had sanded off the black paint which was in bad shape and tried to darken it with walnut danish oil, which left the wood fairly blonde.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Ocelot


Ocelot, does that depth adjuster nut have a sorta sharp feeling edge at either end of the knurling? It looks like the one that came on a type 12 plane that I picked up a while back, and I couldn't tell if it was modified by a previous owner, or if it came that way from Stanley. I figured it wasn't the right nut for a type 12, but couldn't quite place it.


----------



## Mosquito

> So who outbid me for the "Metallic Plane Company - Plow plane"?
> Whoever it was, I thank you. I was in it way to deep! It would have been very cool to have.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I was briefly tempted, but never put a bid on it. I'm not a fan of the spray over everything job that someone did to it. From 10 feet away, though, it probably would have looked fine on the shelf lol


----------



## rad457

> So who outbid me for the "Metallic Plane Company - Plow plane"?
> Whoever it was, I thank you. I was in it way to deep! It would have been very cool to have.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> I was briefly tempted, but never put a bid on it. I m not a fan of the spray over everything job that someone did to it. From 10 feet away, though, it probably would have looked fine on the shelf lol
> 
> - Mosquito


Nor I, Wife said no more buying till I get paid for the last one I sold


----------



## Ocelot

Bug, as far as I know that's a normal type 18 adjuster. Somebody must have swapped if you found that on a type 12.

As I recall, type 12 has a high knob with no taper at the base and no iron ring cast into the base.

PAT APR-19-10

stays on through type 14.
I can't remember the other details that distinguish them from type 13.

Type 14 gets the iron ring at the base of a knob which is tapered to fit snugly in the ring.

Type 15 loses the patent date in the base.


----------



## Ocelot

Double post


----------



## donwilwol

> ^ Sold for $162.50
> 
> - Combo Prof


These have really come down in price!


----------



## BugeyedEarl

> Bug, as far as I know that s a normal type 18 adjuster. Somebody must have swapped if you found that on a type 12.
> 
> As I recall, type 12 has a high knob with no taper at the base and no iron ring cast into the base.
> 
> PAT APR-19-10
> 
> stays on through type 14.
> I can t remember the other details that distinguish them from type 13.
> 
> Type 14 gets the iron ring at the base of a knob which is tapered to fit snugly in the ring.
> 
> Type 15 loses the patent date in the base.
> 
> - Ocelot


Yeah, I assumed it wasn't the right one for the type 12, but I wasn't sure it was even a Stanley-made part. This one was on one of the planes I rescued from the "clown car" collection (a bunch of planes tarted up and painted by a Dr Frankenplane, safe to assume there are a lot of mismatched parts in that batch.)


----------



## DLK

> ^ Sold for $162.50
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> These have really come down in price!
> 
> - Don W


Really? I didn't know. I also didn't "need" it and so quit the quit the fight at $120. ( With shipping that would have been an investment of $132 and I only $140 left in paypal. More on the way.) Good thing too as I was given an offer on some calipers I did need and would not have been able to take the offer if I got the plane. Paypal reload happens in a couple of days.


----------



## Mosquito

It wasn't a great example Don, it was just rattle canned over the whole thing, no cleaning up the old stuff first, etc. I'm surprised it was that low, but I'm guessing many others interested in a plane of that nature thought the same thing


----------



## KentInOttawa

> - Ocelot
> 
> Ocelot, does that depth adjuster nut have a sorta sharp feeling edge at either end of the knurling? It looks like the one that came on a type 12 plane that I picked up a while back, and I couldn't tell if it was modified by a previous owner, or if it came that way from Stanley. I figured it wasn't the right nut for a type 12, but couldn't quite place it.
> 
> - BugeyedEarl


Earl, FWIW I actually find these very comfortable to use. I like to use a light grip when adjusting the depth and these seem to give me a better grip than the typical depth adjusters, especially on the well-worn ones.


----------



## Ocelot

Kent,

Aside from the planes, that's a very nice looking board they are sitting on.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Kent,
> 
> Aside from the planes, that s a very nice looking board they are sitting on.
> 
> - Ocelot


Not quite. It's actually a stack of laminated and pressed sawdust that I'm going to be trimming to fit for a friend of the War Department. It also happened to be a clean flat surface that was available for the photoshoot.


----------



## controlfreak

Even though this is a rough test run I am feeling like the sash plane is dialed in now. Bottom sash ready for joinery work now.


----------



## Ocelot

Ah. Fooled by the imitation plastic wood grain.


----------



## controlfreak

> Ah. Fooled by the imitation plastic wood grain.
> 
> - Ocelot


Real WUD


----------



## HokieKen

Awwww. Ain't it cute


----------



## bandit571

Looks a bit Nay-ked…..


----------



## HokieKen

Definitely needs a little love but it's in dang good shape


----------



## DanKrager

ControlFreak, I would like to know how you plan to cope the ends of the sash frames.

You've got the cutters working really nicely on the long grain. I've built some sash for restoring a house I owned, but coping the ends near the mortise was always problematic, even with electron burners. At one time I owned a single end tennoner and it was really slick. Made sash making like child's play.

But I've never figured out how it was done precisely and efficiently with hand tools.

DanK


----------



## KentInOttawa

Dan,

Here's a 3-minute video showing the technique that I've used. He uses a tailed mitre saw for the initial cut, but that is easy to duplicate with hand tools. Since I've never had great success with a coping saw, I usually don't quite cut all the way to the profile with it, and then I use a knife to pare back to the edge.

The undercut with the coping saw and/or knife does not need to be exactly 45 degrees, since it is just removing waste that could hold your joint open.


----------



## RWE

> Dan,
> 
> Here s a 3-minute video showing the technique that I ve used. He uses a tailed mitre saw for the initial cut, but that is easy to duplicate with hand tools. Since I ve never had great success with a coping saw, I usually don t quite cut all the way to the profile with it, and then I use a knife to pare back to the edge.
> 
> The undercut with the coping saw and/or knife does not need to be exactly 45 degrees, since it is just removing waste that could hold your joint open.
> 
> - Kent


I just did a bit of crown molding in a kitchen renovation. Years ago, I did crown and used the coping saw method. Caulk is your friend. This time, a friend recommended that I "sculpt" the cut with a flap sander on and angle grinder. So give that a try. Works well. The flap sander will give you a great deal of precision and you can cut right to the profile line easily. I used a coping saw to cut the bulk of the wood away, but left 1/4 or more inches to the line, then sanded to the line. Loved the ttechnique.


----------



## controlfreak

> ControlFreak, I would like to know how you plan to cope the ends of the sash frames.
> 
> You ve got the cutters working really nicely on the long grain. I ve built some sash for restoring a house I owned, but coping the ends near the mortise was always problematic, even with electron burners. At one time I owned a single end tennoner and it was really slick. Made sash making like child s play.
> 
> But I ve never figured out how it was done precisely and efficiently with hand tools.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Based on what I have seen you cut the 1/2" of the remaining ovolo at a 45 deg. angle after paring away the rest. You then follow the 45 with a curved gouge similar to the video on cope cutting molding. I may find out in real time later today.


----------



## DevinT

Speaking of crown molding, I have been studying fence design on antique wooden plow planes and I have a theory.

I theorize that the fences on plows were either sections of crown molding or that craftsman used the fences on the plow planes they made to show off their molding skills.

No two fences appear exactly the same. Some with ovolo, some ogee, and everything in between.


----------



## HokieKen

I think it's more likely the latter Devin. It's kinda like the Studley tool chest. It seems like overkill for a tool chest but back then a craftsman's tools could be a portfolio of sorts to show what they could do. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if a cabinetmaker would have pulled out a plow plane to show a potential customer an example of molding profiles he/she could make.

On the other hand, the former is entirely plausible as well. After making a particularly nice molding from a nice piece of wood, I would have been very likely to keep my offcuts for such uses


----------



## HokieKen

> Dan,
> 
> Here s a 3-minute video showing the technique that I ve used. He uses a tailed mitre saw for the initial cut, but that is easy to duplicate with hand tools. Since I ve never had great success with a coping saw, I usually don t quite cut all the way to the profile with it, and then I use a knife to pare back to the edge.
> 
> The undercut with the coping saw and/or knife does not need to be exactly 45 degrees, since it is just removing waste that could hold your joint open.
> 
> - Kent
> 
> I just did a bit of crown molding in a kitchen renovation. Years ago, I did crown and used the coping saw method. Caulk is your friend. This time, a friend recommended that I "sculpt" the cut with a flap sander on and angle grinder. So give that a try. Works well. The flap sander will give you a great deal of precision and you can cut right to the profile line easily. I used a coping saw to cut the bulk of the wood away, but left 1/4 or more inches to the line, then sanded to the line. Loved the ttechnique.
> 
> - RWE


Kent's video is how I learned to cope as well. Cut a 45 to project the profile then cut it back with a couple degrees of undercut. I've always tweeked the fit with rasps though. I like the idea of the flap sander a lot RWE. Thanks for posting that one, I'll be tucking it away in my brain


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## corelz125

A lot of the moulding now is MDF. So try your best and caulk the rest.


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## Mosquito

That's how I've done it too, 45, cope, rasp/file to clean it up.

Some videos I've watched before used the flap disc in the grinder and that too seemed pretty slick, but maybe a little too quick for me to screw it up faster


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## rad457

I have found that if the angle is off a few degrees a block plane fixes the problem a lot quicker? You know when you are in a house you didn't build yourself


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## HokieKen

> A lot of the moulding now is MDF. So try your best and caulk the rest.
> 
> - corelz125


MDF still gets mitered for me. It's soft enough that it can be force together some and stable enough that caulk won't end up cracking like it can with wood. I'll still cope chair rail because it just looks better and is more visible. But I used MDF to do some work at my son's house and using a digital protractor to measure the angle and mitering to that was good enough to suit me. Just not at my own house ;-)


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## ac0rn

Just an added step before you cope. Highlighting the edge with a pencil lead can make the coping cut easier to see. Then touch up for the final sanding or filing.


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## DanKrager

Coping molding such as crown, chair rail or baseboard is wildly different than cutting the cope on a MT joint for something like a sash. Sash coping was my topic because of the sash molding being made.Thanks for all the ideas, though. BTDTA.

I suppose if one is not too concerned about tradition or possible opening up, one could simply miter the bit of molding that meets in the inside corner. That is not as simple as it might seem because one would have to trim off some waste on the front side of stile and possibly the back side of rail to let the miter close up. Unless you were fortunate enough to have the molding exactly the same depth as the rabbet.

I was just wondering if anyone had heard tell of a magic hand plane that could cope the MT joint for sash and door assemblies.

DanK


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## corelz125

I have to do some crown soon. It's MDF so I'll give Kenny's method a try


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## donwilwol

Miter, then cope. Once you miter, you just follow the edge.


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## Mosquito

> I was just wondering if anyone had heard tell of a magic hand plane that could cope the MT joint for sash and door assemblies.
> 
> - Dan Krager


There were coping planes that would do that for you for sash. I believe there was a Woodwrights episode that used them.

A couple example (credit to Jim Bode's site)

I don't want
Kenny to hate me
For big long stupid links


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## Mosquito

This was the one I was thinking of, "scribing plane" around 16 minutes
Double Casement Window

Around the 24 minute mark is one way, miter then in-cannel paring (long) gouge.
Simple Sash Restoration

Same/similar technique at about 24:30 in Corner Cupboard, Part 2


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## Ocelot

> [...]
> On the other hand, the former is entirely plausible as well. After making a particularly nice molding from a nice piece of wood, I would have been very likely to keep my offcuts for such uses
> 
> - HokieKen


Who made molding out of boxwood?


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## HokieKen

Question for the brain trust (probably Bandit since I know he has planes from both manufacturers):

I'm in the final stages of the restoration on my Millers Falls 24 (Stanley 8 size) which is working up the iron and mating the chipbreaker to it. I bought a NOS MF iron when I first got this plane so I'm in good shape there. But, I realized last night that I may have a bit of a problem with the chipbreaker. Somebody ground the edge of this one for some purpose which I can't figure out but it wasn't to mate it with an iron. On my original inspection, I thought I'd just have to put some heat to it and bend the "hump" back in a bit then bend the whole thing a tad to get the proper pressure at the business end.

But when I was figuring out my plan for how to shape the hump and not destroy the spring temper last night, I realized that one side of the contact edge was ground WAY further back than the other. I'm guessing that I'm probably going to loose about 3/8-1/2" in the length by the time I square the end and forge the hump. And I haven't tried it yet so I'm not sure how that will work with the depth adjuster fork on the plane having a brand new, full-length iron and a chipbreaker shortened that much. But I have a feeling it may not work so well. And since the 24 planes are pretty uncommon and is the only plane MF made that takes an iron that wide, finding an original chipbreaker isn't a promising prospect.

So, I figure I have a couple of options:

Grind and re-forge the shape on the chipbreaker I have then mill a new slot for the depth-adjuster fork wherever it needs to be.
Grind and re-shape the one I have and set it where it mates with the depth adjuster and let it hit the iron however far back from the edge it hits and see how the plane performs.
Buy a chipbreaker from a different manufacturer's plane and not worry about it being OEM equipment.

*So my question is whether or not the distance from the edge of the chipbreaker to the depth adjuster slot is the same on Stanley planes as it is on Millers Falls?* I know no one probably has a MF24 for comparison but if someone could give me that distance from a Stanley #8, I could figure out if it would work. And if anyone has Stanley and MF planes in the same size, like MF18/Stanley6 or MF15/Stanley 5-1/2 or MF22/Stanley7 and could just see if the chipbreakers are identical that would give me confidence that the same is true for the #8 size.

I imagine I can find a Stanley chipbreaker at a reasonable price if it will fit. And I think that would be my preference rather than spend the time necessary to reshape the one I have if it means I'll end up having to modify it with a new slot anyway.

And I would consider a replacement blade/chipbreaker set from Veritas for almost any other size plane. But, this particular size is not a size that will see enough use to justify the expense. Especially since I already dropped more than I wanted to on a NOS iron for it. The good news is I practically stole the plane itself so I'm still ahead of the curve 

Also if it turns out the MF and Stanley are the same (and I imagine they are, MF seems to have copied Stanley pretty much to the letter on planes as far as dimensions go) and anyone has a spare 2-5/8" chipbreaker to sell, let me know!


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## Mosquito

I've got a No. 9 I can try out with, I think, both Stanley and KK, alternatively I can get at least measurements from Stanley and KK #8's. My Siegley's are no help, since they don't have one lol


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## sansoo22

I have a spare 2-5/8" chip breaker you can have. I'm not sure its a Stanley as the hump isn't so much a hump as a round over but its clean and shiny. I put a caliper on it and it specs out identical to both my Stanley #8 chip breakers. From leading edge to bottom of depth sloth is 4-1/64". From top of large center hole to bottom edge of depth slot is 29/32".

If you want to give it a try I can toss it in the box with the drill press parts. I have that scheduled for pickup tomorrow.


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## bandit571

Bottom of slot to edge of chipbreaker..4.12"

Seem to remember it was Stanley vs Sargent where the slots weren't the same…

Also, make sure the chipbreaker is not from either a Stanley No. 33 or No. 34…..as they will not ever fit…..ever see a chipbreaker with TWO slots…...that is the reason, someone else tried, apparently…and had to cut a new slot…

Chipbreaker I have still has the L. Bailey Patent DEC 24, 1857 stamped on it….Iron has the PAT.APL. 19,92 stamp..


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## HokieKen

> I have a spare 2-5/8" chip breaker you can have. I m not sure its a Stanley as the hump isn t so much a hump as a round over but its clean and shiny. I put a caliper on it and it specs out identical to both my Stanley #8 chip breakers. From leading edge to bottom of depth sloth is 4-1/64". From top of large center hole to bottom edge of depth slot is 29/32".
> 
> If you want to give it a try I can toss it in the box with the drill press parts. I have that scheduled for pickup tomorrow.
> 
> - sansoo22


Perfect, please and thank you! If it doesn't work for some reason, or I don't end up needing it, I'll send it right back with the DP parts


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## HokieKen

I got these CBN wheels for my Worksharp back in August










but haven't taken the time to make shims to set them flush with the table attachment so I haven't used them. Until today. I used them to flatten the back of my iron.










I am a believer!! They cut MUCH faster than equivalent grades of AO paper and run unbelievably cool. I never once had to cool my iron. Can't speak to longevity and the 1200 grit isn't fine enough for a mirror polish so they won't stand alone. But at first glance they seem like a superb upgrade.


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## Thedustydutchman

I'm so happy to hear that you like them because I just ordered mine on Friday! On backorder until mid December though.


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## HokieKen

If you like the Worksharp, you'll like it even better now )


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## HokieKen

Well, I shouldn't have gone for the glossy finish on the wood parts for this plane. The lever cap looked fine to me before but when I put it on tbe plane, it just wouldn't do. So I spent about 45 minutes just sanding and polishing that damn thing…


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## sansoo22

Ken - chip breaker is in the box and will head your way tomorrow. Nice work on making the lever cap shiny. Takes a bit more work than seems worth it at times until you see that shiny plane all put back together.


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## HokieKen

Problem is, after polishing I had to spray red paint into the recess. Normally I would just sand it with a flat block and whatever grade paper. But now that it's polished, I have to remove the paint from the letters without marring the finish. And I can't go back to the buffer because it may remove paint again. So I guess I'm gonna end up with magnifying glasses and a small scraper.

I have to admit though, I can see the appeal of going full bore shiny…


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## ac0rn

?? Years back a co-worker talked of using a thin coat of vaseline on parts that didn't need paint (Lionel trains). Could you use a small printers platten to coat the letters with vaseline, then paint, then clean up vaseline. Maybe try the method on a spare part.


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## HokieKen

Might could have Jeff. But that ship has sailed ;-)


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## sansoo22

I wish I had some advice for you Ken but I paint the infills by hand with tiny brushes. If I get any paint on the letters I use paint thinner and q-tip. Need to ring the q-tip out real well so the paint thinner doesn't run but it does the trick. The q-tip approach may help after you've done a one pass on scraping to get any bits of straggling paint. Worst case you get to call me an idiot and respray it.


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## bandit571

Walk into a Hobby Lobby…..buy both a small bottle of Testor's Enamel paint in the colour you want….and a couple small brushes like you used to use on building plastic car models as a kid…...

Dupli-color also sells paint pens….that also have a small paint brush in the cap…...( Cardinal Red, anyone?) BTDT….


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Santa got a pkg to my PO Box today! Tomorrow will be a great day!
.
.
Then I need to become an elf and work on my delivery!


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## Lazyman

I think that I would try Micromesh, Kenny. Higher grits might require you to buff it again and if they do, a polishing compound on a cloth might help you touch it up.


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## rad457

I use a rigid felt buffing wheel from L.V. with white compound, no paint removed?


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## DLK

I primarily use the worksharp to flatten backs of molding plane irons. But concerning the CBN discs WoodturnersWonders writes:


Try to avoid softer steel used in older tools. If Softer steels are used we suggest using the Wonder Slick Stick to avoid loading and used for cleaning.
 Softer metals will start to load up the discs which means particles of softer steel will begin to embed in between the pores of the CBN grit and start to glaze the disc over. Sometimes this will happen over a wide area gradually or it could start a single narrow ring if a tool is held a certain way. This is more likely to happen on the higher grit discs because the pores are smaller and closer together.
The grain on these discs is half embedded in nickel alloy and half sticking up. The grain is especially small on the higher grit discs and is susceptible to being "gouged" if a very sharp pointed object is pushed into it. Make sure any tool you insert from below or above is square to the disc with bevel presentation first otherwise you risk scoring the disc. This is especially true with the 800/1200 disc. This is NOT covered under the lifetime warranty of the grit not coming off as it is rather a misuse of the disc. 

So befor I buy them: *my questions are:* has anybody had any trouble with the sort of metals we encounter in our old plane irons? Am I better off just buying a set of CBN wheels for a (slow speed) grinder or polisher?

I did see at SharpeningSupplies the Cleaning Stick for Diamond or CBN Wheels they we might find helpful


----------



## DLK

I primarily use the worksharp to flatten backs of molding plane irons. But concerning the CBN discs WoodturnersWonders: 

Try to avoid softer steel used in older tools. If Softer steels are used we suggest using the Wonder Slick Stick to avoid loading and used for cleaning.
 Softer metals will start to load up the discs which means particles of softer steel will begin to embed in between the pores of the CBN grit and start to glaze the disc over. Sometimes this will happen over a wide area gradually or it could start a single narrow ring if a tool is held a certain way. This is more likely to happen on the higher grit discs because the pores are smaller and closer together.
The grain on these discs is half embedded in nickel alloy and half sticking up. The grain is especially small on the higher grit discs and is susceptible to being "gouged" if a very sharp pointed object is pushed into it. Make sure any tool you insert from below or above is square to the disc with bevel presentation first otherwise you risk scoring the disc. This is especially true with the 800/1200 disc. This is NOT covered under the lifetime warranty of the grit not coming off as it is rather a misuse of the disc. 

So befor I buy them: *my questions are:* has anybody had any trouble with the sort of metals we encounter in our old plane irons? Am I better off just buying a set of CBN wheels for a (slow speed) grinder or polisher?

I did see at SharpeningSupplies the Cleaning Stick for Diamond or CBN Wheels they we might find helpful


----------



## HokieKen

I think that's probably referring to CrV and other alloy steels that were used in some tools. I expect high carbon steels should be fine. Stainless would probably present issues too. I have only done this one iron but it wasn't an issue. I did buy and use their "slick stick" just to be on the safe side. I cleaned them afterwards with a stiff nylon bristle brush and water. That cleaning stick may be worth trying out.

As far as buying wheels for the WS vs bench grinder, I like the grinder for turning tools. Everything else pretty much gets done on the Worksharp.


----------



## HokieKen

> I wish I had some advice for you Ken but I paint the infills by hand with tiny brushes. If I get any paint on the letters I use paint thinner and q-tip. Need to ring the q-tip out real well so the paint thinner doesn t run but it does the trick. The q-tip approach may help after you ve done a one pass on scraping to get any bits of straggling paint. Worst case you get to call me an idiot and respray it.
> 
> - sansoo22





> Walk into a Hobby Lobby…..buy both a small bottle of Testor s Enamel paint in the colour you want….and a couple small brushes like you used to use on building plastic car models as a kid…...
> 
> Dupli-color also sells paint pens….that also have a small paint brush in the cap…...( Cardinal Red, anyone?) BTDT….
> 
> - bandit571


Thanks for the suggestions guys. I've tried filling the back in the past with a brush and it worked okay but I was never fully happy with it because the "walls" of the recess were never quite right on close inspection. Probably me being too picky but the method of spraying then sanding back the face has always given me the results I want. But, I've never really polished the lever cap before. Usually just sand up to 600 or so wet.



> I think that I would try Micromesh, Kenny. Higher grits might require you to buff it again and if they do, a polishing compound on a cloth might help you touch it up.
> 
> - Lazyman


That actually popped into my head this morning  I think I can actually tape the face of the cap up then sand on top of the tape with my micro-mesh pads to remove the paint from the letters. A light touch should get a clean and even result I think. I'll let you know.


----------



## DLK

> I think that's probably referring to CrV and other alloy steels that were used in some tools. I expect high carbon steels should be fine. Stainless would probably present issues too. I have only done this one iron but it wasn't an issue. I did buy and use their "slick stick" just to be on the safe side. I cleaned them afterwards with a stiff nylon bristle brush and water. That cleaning stick may be worth trying out.
> - HokieKen


Thanks. Good to know.



> As far as buying wheels for the WS vs bench grinder, I like the grinder for turning tools. Everything else pretty much gets done on the Worksharp.
> 
> - HokieKen


I use the sorby pro edge for turning tools and the worksharp primarily for sand paper flattening of molding irons, but sometimes chisels and plane irons. However I must prefer using oil stones for my chisels and irons. I use various slip stones and rods and shop made profiled mdf for carving tools and modeling iron bevels. Just bought the CBN rods from WoodturnersWonders, when they arrive I will report how on them. I am always looking for rods, I have some Arkansa and ceramic rods and of course sandpaper on dowels.

This is making me want to run out to the shop and sharpen something. But I have to get ready for teaching my neighbor about spoon carving. (she's is a Pratt as was my mother, so we must be very distanced cousins .)


----------



## HokieKen

Don, if your Worksharp just does the "heavy lifting" on flattening the backs of irons/chisels, I'd recommend getting the 80/180 CBN then just use sandpaper to polish it up to a finer finish. The CBN cuts fast and cool but once the blade is flattened, it only takes a few seconds on sandpaper to polish out the scratches. I found that the 1200 CBN is about the same as 1000 sandpaper. So even after using the finest CBN, I still used 3600/6000 micromesh disc to polish it up.


----------



## controlfreak

In John Lhotka's blog It has in step 12 that the "ovolo depth and the glazing fillet *must* match". This had me looking at my sash plane again.









There is a very pronounced elevation difference. I then noticed some nail holes in the base where it looks like someone in the past may have tried to remedy this.









I can always just keep tapping the iron out as I go but it seems to get a little chattery without any support. I thought I would post this here to see what you all think about it.


----------



## TxSurveyor

> I have to admit though, I can see the appeal of going full bore shiny…
> 
> - HokieKen


High polish should also help with corrosion….I think….Looks awesome though. 
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## donwilwol

Actually high polish is harder to maintain. The smoother the surface the less it will hold oil or wax, so the quicker air moisture will affect it.


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## HokieKen

Very true Don. This particular restoration left the realm of practicality some time ago anyway though


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## donwilwol

I wasn't necessarily suggesting against it. Just making a fact for reference. Higher maintenance seems to always come with higher polish in All attributes of life, not just tools


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## HokieKen

Yeah, my wife often wishes I was a little less polished.


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## donwilwol

> Yeah, my wife often wishes I was a little less polished.
> 
> - HokieKen


Ok, point proven it's not always ;-)


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## DLK

> Yeah, my wife often wishes I was a little less polished.
> 
> - HokieKen


Is this so that you will be more oily and waxy. I'm so confused.


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## sansoo22

The smooth shiny surfaces do require constant maintenance. I'm a huge proponent of the old fashioned rag-in-a-can. I like to use a terry cloth towel and CRC 3-36 in mine. The terry cloth takes off any fine dust the air hose missed and leaves a nice protective coat of oil behind.

Only downside is you have to build that cleanup process in to your shop shutdown habits. Here in the mid west it only takes one time of being lazy for your nice shiny plane cheeks to turn yellowish on you.


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## HokieKen

> Yeah, my wife often wishes I was a little less polished.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> Is this so that you will be more oily and waxy. I m so confused.
> 
> - Combo Prof


So I'll require less maintenance ;-)



> The smooth shiny surfaces do require constant maintenance. I m a huge proponent of the old fashioned rag-in-a-can. I like to use a terry cloth towel and CRC 3-36 in mine….
> 
> - sansoo22


I'm a big fan of CRC336 too. I just use a blue paper towel to wipe it on though. I'm not refined enough to use a terry cloth ;-P


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## controlfreak

I have been using the rag in a can with 3 in one oil because it was the only one that I was sure wouldn't spontaneously combust.


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## HokieKen

I hope I die by spontaneous human combustion. It's the laziest way I can think of to be sure that I'm remembered after I'm gone.


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## sansoo22

> I hope I die by spontaneous human combustion. It s the laziest way I can think of to be sure that I m remembered after I m gone.
> 
> - HokieKen


Cheapest as far as funerals are concerned too. No cremation costs. Just a broom, dust pan, and a box…done.


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## rad457

> I hope I die by spontaneous human combustion. It s the laziest way I can think of to be sure that I m remembered after I m gone.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> Cheapest as far as funerals are concerned too. No cremation costs. Just a broom, dust pan, and a box…done.
> 
> - sansoo22


Cordless blower, open the door an POOF Gone


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## bigblockyeti

> I hope I die by spontaneous human combustion. It s the laziest way I can think of to be sure that I m remembered after I m gone.
> 
> - HokieKen


If you're oily and waxy enough, just start sleeping in a pile of rags, you just might get your wish.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

My Secret Santa was Kenny!










A patina-laden (love it!) Stanley No. 239 "Special Dado Plane, used for blind wire grooving of all things! But it wasn't complete, so Kenny did his machinist magic to create missing screws, a new cutter, and a new slitter/nicker! Oh, and a screwdriver that fits it all, along w/ a SW tape measure!

Wow! Just… wow!

Action shots of the No. 239 later tonight!


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## KelleyCrafts

Well done Kenny!


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## HokieKen

Glad you like it Smitty  Did I actually manage to send one you didn't already have? I bought the plane before I assigned names. Luckily I drew your name before I got around to sandblasting and painting as I originally intended. I had a feeling you'd prefer the well-earned patina though ;-)


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## theoldfart

Ya done good Kenny.


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## Ocelot

I sharped up that Bailey no 7, type 18 over the weekend. Just trying it out on the edge of this hickory.










Coming along










Not bad.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Whats the plan with that type 18? Keeping it in the collection?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I didn't have a No. 239, but I do have a complete 238 and 248A. So it was a close call!


----------



## HokieKen

Well, now you can do grooves for wires in addition to weatherstripping!


----------



## bandit571

Blast from the past?









May have to sharpen it up a bit…









G. Roseboom of Cincinnati, OH…1864-1865 era?


----------



## HokieKen

The micro-mesh did the trick on my lever cap


----------



## DLK

Great!


----------



## bandit571

Looks good…


----------



## corelz125

Very impressive Kenny you found a Stanley Smitty didn't have. Sansoo has been an influence on some of you guys. Lots of sparkly shiny planes lately.


----------



## HokieKen

And I found it for less than $40 too Corelz ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Both are://storage.googleapis.com/aws-s3-lumberjocks-com/r2n9r9g.jpg!



> Very impressive Kenny you found a Stanley Smitty didn t have.
> 
> - corelz125


Kenny = Best Secret Santa Ever

Here are the 238 and 239 next to each other. Clearly a close relation.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Action shot.










And Kenny, that MF cap looks awesome!


----------



## Lazyman

Nice result on that MF logo and a unique find for your swap recipient, Kenny.


----------



## Mosquito

So that's where that 239 was headed, all makes sense now lol Looks awesome, and like the right home… I've been having doubts about my contribution lol


----------



## HokieKen

Looks like it even works Smitty  Glad it found a home where it can see a little action from time to time!


----------



## HokieKen

> So that s where that 239 was headed, all makes sense now lol Looks awesome, and like the right home… I ve been having doubts about my contribution lol
> 
> - Mosquito


Had it been anybody other than Smitty, I'd probably have kept the 239 and sent the MF07 I snagged for $39 a couple of weeks ago. I figured Smitty would prefer the Stanley badge though and I'm sure he probably has a 140 hanging around somewhere anyway ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

I forgot but I need to give a shout out to Mike (drsurfrat) for hooking me up with one of the thumbscrews for the fence on Smitty's plane  I couldn't find one that would keep me under the spending cap until he offered me one of his.


----------



## drsurfrat

It is a beautiful circular system here. I just got the welded No 140 from Mos. It's all good


----------



## KentInOttawa

There's a really strange #4C Handyman that was just listed on eBay.

Strange, you say? It's a Made in CAN 4*C* with a 1" steel depth adjusting knob. I haven't seen many corrugated Handyman planes. I have a similar Canadian Type 17 4C Bailey with the same depth adjuster knob, so Roxton Pond must have had a lot of them on the shelf when the war began. I know that there isn't a Handyman Type study, but if I had to guess, I'd say that this plane qualifies as a Type 17.


----------



## Ocelot

Well Jerry, I dug it out because I had remembered (or mis-remembered) that in some previous moment when I thought I had too many planes, it was one of the ones I thought I could live without. And because you said you liked that type of plane. But…
... after seeing it again, and especially after sharping it up, I've changed my mind. I had thought we might do some kind of swap involving your Type 5, No 5. "Collectors" might opine that your type 5 was worth more than my plane anyway.

So, yeah, I guess I'm keeping it for now.

If anyone wants to weigh in on the relative value of those two planes, it would be interesting to hear however.



> Whats the plan with that type 18? Keeping it in the collection?
> 
> - Thedustydutchman


----------



## donwilwol

> There s a really strange #4C Handyman that was just listed on eBay.
> 
> Strange, you say? It s a Made in CAN 4*C* with a 1" steel depth adjusting knob. I haven t seen many corrugated Handyman planes. I have a similar Canadian Type 17 4C Bailey with the same depth adjuster knob, so Roxton Pond must have had a lot of them on the shelf when the war began. I know that there isn t a Handyman Type study, but if I had to guess, I d say that this plane qualifies as a Type 17.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Kent


My bet is it's a defiance with a handyman cap. Defiance did make a corrugated, although they're somewhat collectable. I say somewhat, because it is defiance after all.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Well if you do decide that you want to get rid of it I would be interested in it. I would probably be into a trade for my #5 as well. No big deal, not in desperate need for it. I would also be interested in the value of both as I honestly have no idea!


----------



## KentInOttawa

> - Kent
> 
> My bet is it s a defiance with a handyman cap. Defiance did make a corrugated, although they re somewhat collectable. I say somewhat, because it is defiance after all.
> 
> - Don W


Thanks for the info. I had considered that it was a Handyman cap on another plane, but all the features (older-style frog, no frog adjusting screw, folded lateral adjuster, and bowed [?] front web) all said Handyman to me.


----------



## HokieKen

I tend to ignore anything that says handyman to me Kent ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> I tend to adore anything that says handyman to me Kent ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


There, fixed it for you Kenny!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, forgot the best one!


----------



## HokieKen

That your Goodwill pile Smitty? ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Santa Stash.

Oops, did I say that out loud???


----------



## Lazyman

That is literally a priceless collection.


----------



## bandit571

> - Kent
> 
> My bet is it s a defiance with a handyman cap. Defiance did make a corrugated, although they re somewhat collectable. I say somewhat, because it is defiance after all.
> 
> - Don W
> Thanks for the info. I had considered that it was a Handyman cap on another plane, but all the features (older-style frog, no frog adjusting screw, folded lateral adjuster, and bowed [?] front web) all said Handyman to me.
> 
> - Kent


Did anybody else notice…no iron, nor a chipbreaker? Whale tail lateral? Whale Tails got crimped down about 1962? Handles look like someone has stripped the black paint off of them…

I'll pass….


----------



## Ocelot

Jerry, I don't think anybody noticed we were looking for an opinion. They're too busy wagging their heads at handyman and reveling in Santa's generosity.

Meanwhile I took a few swipes at a billet of bloodwood with the thing.

I'm going to have to touch up the blade now but I'm pleased with what it would do. That stuff is supposed to be Janka 2900.


----------



## Ocelot




----------



## Thedustydutchman

Wow! Looks like its working well. Nice job getting it tuned up


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

For the record, I have no "worth" opinions on either a T5 jack, or a T18 jointer. Not my swim lanes, as I'm a T13 fellow.


----------



## DevinT

I'm a T11 fan myself. What gets you excited about T13 the most?


----------



## bandit571

The letters "S" & "W" inside of a heart…

Mine range from T-7 (#8) up to a made in England T-20…(#4c)...Have quite a few with 3 patent dates…and a couple with just 2.

An EOE shop…..


----------



## DevinT

EOE?

England Over Everything?


----------



## HokieKen

My preferred type is the type with the red frog and hinged lever cap ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

First and foremost, it was the first 'type' of bench plane I ever bought. A T13 No. 4, with partial decal and beautiful tall knob. And yes, I like the SW logo too.

Finding original decals on 90+ year old tools is just cool to me.


----------



## Ocelot

> Wow! Looks like its working well. Nice job getting it tuned up
> 
> - Thedustydutchman


Thanks. After 7 years of trying, I think I've finally gotten fairly good at sharpening a plane. I'm not so good a planing, however.

.... and after I planed both faces of that bloodwood, with shallow cuts so I needed a lot of passes, about 200 square inches planed, it's not such a keen edge anymore, so I'm going to have to go through the last couple of grits (2000 and 3000) and strop again. Wood database, in the bloodwood entry, says something about "pronounced blunting effect".


----------



## sansoo22

For users I have everything from a type 9 to a type 19 English made 4-1/2. A peferct setup for me would be Type 10 for #6-#8 as I prefer a low knob and the old style tote for larger planes. And for sizes #3-#5 it would be a type 14 or 15 because I like the ring in the casting for the knob and I dislike the ogee frog.


----------



## sansoo22

Ocelot - I looked over the picks of Jerry's T5 #5 and your T18 #7 and if I was shopping for either I'd expect to pay in the $150 to $175 range. Maybe a slight node the T5 #5 in terms of value but not by much. The #5 has what appears to be a large scuff on the knob and either paint or glue in the mouth. Those two things keep me from being able to bump it up into that premium collectible tier.

That's my take on it but I'm not really a collector of anything except #4s from various brands and Rockford/Marsh planes. Although I must admit I was looking around at the 50 or so planes here to see if I had anything to trade for the T5 #5


----------



## bandit571

EOE= Equal Opportunity Employer….


----------



## Ocelot

Thanks Sasoo. I figured they were close, but his was a bit more worthy.

It's a 7C if I didn't say that. I don't think I showed the bottom of it.


----------



## DevinT

> In John Lhotka s blog It has in step 12 that the "ovolo depth and the glazing fillet *must* match". This had me looking at my sash plane again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very pronounced elevation difference. I then noticed some nail holes in the base where it looks like someone in the past may have tried to remedy this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can always just keep tapping the iron out as I go but it seems to get a little chattery without any support. I thought I would post this here to see what you all think about it.
> 
> - controlfreak


I hate to say this, but are we sure those aren't insect holes?


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Wow, I was a bit off on my estimate on what that number 5 is worth. I was not expecting it to be that much! Good thing I didn't turn it into a scrub lol.


----------



## controlfreak

> In John Lhotka s blog It has in step 12 that the "ovolo depth and the glazing fillet *must* match". This had me looking at my sash plane again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very pronounced elevation difference. I then noticed some nail holes in the base where it looks like someone in the past may have tried to remedy this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can always just keep tapping the iron out as I go but it seems to get a little chattery without any support. I thought I would post this here to see what you all think about it.
> 
> - controlfreak
> 
> I hate to say this, but are we sure those aren t insect holes?
> 
> - DevinT


Based on their spacing and size they appear to be where a shim of sorts was attached. I only looked after I saw the post where the molding depth and glazing rebate are supposed to be identical in depth. I guess I need to find some other sash planes to check this. I also bought the molding plane book hoping to find answers.


----------



## bandit571

Is there a "Spring Line" on the front end?


----------



## controlfreak

What is a spring line bandit?


----------



## bandit571

They a lines on the end on a molding plane, to show the operator how to tilt the plane for best results

One is a "Level line" the other is a Plumb line….goal is to keep the plumb line vertical….

usually they were "high-lighted" with white chalk, or paint…so they would stand out better.

Roy Underhill had a couple shows on Molding planes…where he put the lines to use.


----------



## theoldfart

This'll help Bandit









Using this plane to make an edge on a dressing table on a test piece before hitting the cherry stock.


----------



## sansoo22

My new blasting cabinet upgrades are performing admirably even with a barely able to do blasting work sized compressor. Who knew swapping to a cyphon feed and upgrading all fittings to hiflow would make such a difference.

This one is going to be a keeper. The mass of the English made castings does come in handy. Stubborn grain really has no chance. Pretty sure the bare body weighs as much as my entire 604.


----------



## Ocelot

Now that's sandblasted! How did you keep the little yoke from flying away in the storm?


----------



## Ocelot

After seeing the english gentleman's video expose' on scrubbing with a 78, I ordered an extra blade from my Craftsman Rabbet and Fillister (aka Sargent '79). So, I don't have to think of converting anything to a scrub plane.


----------



## HokieKen

Very nice Sansoo! I agree about the mass too. I prefer my 4-1/2 smoother to all the others because I just like the heft.


----------



## Mosquito

I did too. Until I started using my 5-1/2 instead. Then the #6 got healthy… now I basically smooth with my #8 (that's a lie, but it's sharp as hell so it's kinda not lol)


----------



## HokieKen

I think my ideal smoother would be the length of a #3 with a 2-3/8" blade and the weight of a #6.


----------



## bandit571

Happen to have an English Stanley…a #4c










Gets used for raising panels…alot. 









Kind of like a decent Stanley No. 4, T-11…for most smoothing jobs…









Although…a well tuned No. 15 is hard to beat….until the arms get tired..









Then the No. 9(Type 4) can take over…


----------



## sansoo22

> Now that s sandblasted! How did you keep the little yoke from flying away in the storm?
> 
> - Ocelot


Harbor Freight needle nose pliers. If they get worn out from the sand blaster I absolutely won't miss them.



> I did too. Until I started using my 5-1/2 instead. Then the #6 got healthy… now I basically smooth with my #8 (that s a lie, but it s sharp as hell so it s kinda not lol)
> 
> - Mosquito


If I keep my 7s and 8s scarry sharp I barely have to do any final smoothing. The #7 is usually kept that way but the #8 is my primary jointer and rarely sees face grain so I don't sharpen as often as I probably should.

Speaking of 7s and 8s there is a local lady that has a 607c and a 608 that she wants $600 for. She is convinced they are in collector condition and I have yet to convince her they are NOT. They aren't even in user grade shape at the moment. They aren't rusted but both front knobs are toast as well as the irons. I made her a respectable offer on the high side for what she has but her internet research trumps my real world experience. Oh well you win some and you lose some.


----------



## corelz125

Are they roundy rocks or flat tops?


----------



## DevinT

> Speaking of 7s and 8s there is a local lady that has a 607c and a 608 that she wants $600 for. She is convinced they are in collector condition and I have yet to convince her they are NOT. They aren t even in user grade shape at the moment. They aren t rusted but both front knobs are toast as well as the irons. I made her a respectable offer on the high side for what she has but her internet research trumps my real world experience. Oh well you win some and you lose some.
> 
> - sansoo22


You want me to go beat her up for you?


----------



## HokieKen

Girls scrappin' over handplanes. How cliche'.


----------



## HokieKen

My #15 is probably my second most used plane Bandit. In all honesty, I could probably live with just my #10 and #15 and my LAJ and never miss the rest of them. I'm not going to. But I could ;-)


----------



## sansoo22

> Are they roundy rocks or flat tops?
> 
> - corelz125


One of each variety. The flat top is type 6 or 6a which is the Bedrocks I prefer and have a couple of already. I like picking up Bedrocks in poor shape so I don't feel bad restoring them and "ruining the history". And when I do restore them I pay a premium for spare parts to restore with proper logo irons.



> You want me to go beat her up for you?
> 
> - DevinT


She's old but she looks mean. You can probably take her though. You can have the 608 if you win. I want the 607C to go with my 604C and 605C of the same type.


----------



## corelz125

Anything bedrock seems to go for a premium price now. Even in excellent shape a flat top 608 getting $300 is a stretch. She was looking on Jim Bode?


----------



## sansoo22

> She was looking on Jim Bode?
> 
> - corelz125


Most likely this with some thick beer goggle. I don't know how else people see a Jim Bode collector tool and then look at their below user grade tool and go "yep its the same".


----------



## Ocelot

You folks better be careful. If anything happens to that lady, you're headed to the pokey.


----------



## sansoo22

Took a spin on the eBay wheel of misfortune and lost. The pile on the left is hot garbage and the pile on the right I get to keep. Tossed in a bid for $45 and forgot about it. I should have paid closer attention because I won and then paid $15 shipping to get some parts.

I can't quite tell but I think someone took this plane apart, hit it with a small cup brush, and then sprayed it with vinegar or something to make it rust. I didn't see the swhirl marks in the photos and it looked like nothing but brighter orange rust which is usually a sign its all surface rust and no big deal. Well whatever got on this plane ate in so well the stamped "Stanley" on the lateral lever is completely gone.

On the bright side I have a matching set of rosewood handles without a nick or scratch on them. I'm sure I will find a plane they can call home sooner or later.


----------



## Ocelot

You have standards, sansoo.

That looks like a regular plane to me. You would be amazed at some of my beater planes. With chunks of iron missing and still acting like a plane


----------



## sansoo22

> You have standards, sansoo.
> 
> That looks like a regular plane to me. You would be amazed at some of my beater planes. With chunks of iron missing and still acting like a plane
> 
> - Ocelot


I should have mentioned the body has ~0.015" twist in it. Fixable but with all the other issues not worth the time. If I had a belt sander to fix it quicker it might be worth it.


----------



## controlfreak

> They a lines on the end on a molding plane, to show the operator how to tilt the plane for best results
> 
> One is a "Level line" the other is a Plumb line….goal is to keep the plumb line vertical….
> 
> usually they were "high-lighted" with white chalk, or paint…so they would stand out better.
> 
> Roy Underhill had a couple shows on Molding planes…where he put the lines to use.
> 
> - bandit571


Ah, I see, I will check but on my sash plane you naturally hold it vertical so I doubt it will have any lines. I have started the "Moldings in Practice" book. Lots of interesting stuff on using molding planes.


----------



## HokieKen

Found another thing I prefer about MF over Stanley. The chipbreakers on MF planes has a very pronounced "hump" compared to a more gentle turndown at the end of the Stanley. At least I assume the ones I have are Stanley. This one came with a Stanley iron in my MF 24 plane.









Makes it much more difficult to shape a knife edge at the mating interface with the blade when there's not much room there for an undercut.

But the one Sansoo sent me worked fine after some sweating on my diamond plates  The 24 is done finally. Action shots later ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

Showroom nice!


----------



## corelz125

You ever gonna use that thing Kenny or put it on the mantle over the fire place for all to admire?


----------



## rad457

She going look "SO" pretty sitting on that shelf Like I tells my Wife, you just Too Pretty to actually use


----------



## bandit571

A box will be mailed Monday..heading for Kenny. The MO got here today, was too late to mail the box….window at the Post Office closes at noon on Saturdays….mail gets to my house about..1400 hours…


----------



## sansoo22

Very nice Kenny! I don't think the chip breaker I sent you was a Stanley. Most of my Stanley planes have a breaker nearly identical to the breakers on the few Millers Falls planes I have. I always assume the odd shaped ones without a pronounced hump are a Sargent because I don't like Sargent planes. Can't explain why I don't like them I just don't. Unless its the one with the brass embossed logo in the lever cap…I would make room in the collection for one of those.


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice Kenny!


----------



## corelz125

Which is the brass one Sansoo?


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Bandit! I hope you aren't setting me down a path to a second till full of Craftsman BB planes ;-)

It's a user Corelz. I'm going to use it to give my bench a fresh face and flattening. After that, who knows how much it'll get used. Probably not much but it'll be there if I need it ;-)

Good to know Sansoo. It's been a long bit since I rehabbed a Stanley so I couldn't remember what the chipbreakers look like. There isn't much chance of me finding a MF replacement but I may get a Stanley. This one should work fine but just doesn't have the geometry I like at the contact edge.


----------



## sansoo22

> Which is the brass one Sansoo?
> 
> - corelz125


I think its the 400 series that had them in the late 20s thru late 30s. I know I have seen a 410 and a 414 with the brass insert in the lever cap.

There is a 414 ebay right now. If I didn't have over a dozen jack planes already I might buy it.


----------



## 33706

> I think my ideal smoother would be the length of a #3 with a 2-3/8" blade and the weight of a #6.
> 
> - HokieKen


Are you interested in a #8 Stanley, bobbed to 12 1/4"? If so, I got a sole and frog for you, Ken. I'm not into owning desecrated planes, but I got a bunch of 8's that needed the parts off this truncated one.


























Guessing a type #17 but not sure. I gotta hit the books.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks PK but that wouldn't suit me. Too long for a smoother IMO. My 10" MF10 is close to perfect for most jobs but occasionally I'd like for it to be a couple inches shorter. And a #8 would be wider than I'd like I think. I think 2-3/8" would be good but I might even want 2-1/4" when I get right down to it.

One of these days I may get around to making myself an infill that is the size I think would be ideal.


----------



## corelz125

I havent seen too many of those Sargents.


----------



## Mosquito

A couple of the Keen Kutters out for a spin this afternoon. #3 sized jack plane (not really, just a heavy cut to get dowels down faster), and the #4-1/2 to smooth it all out



















Wood hinge, incase you were wondering


----------



## HokieKen

Those things are SHINY Mos! You need to use them more often ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Heft and hubris is a load to push!


















She works well though


----------



## Mosquito

KK#8 pulled jointer duty to straighten up the edge too, felt good to get 3 out today lol

While I agree I do need to use them more often, they're so shiny because I didn't do it 

Seriously though, I've had the set for 8 or 9 years, and not fully cleaned any of them up lol


----------



## corelz125

Nice wide shavings Kenny. If it's too heavy for you to push I can take it off your hands for you.


----------



## HokieKen

I'll try waxing the sole first Corelz. Thanks for the offer though ;-)


----------



## defrosted

Hubris and Heft. I am picturing the monologueing villain and the muscle backup…

Or a 55 at the microphone and an 8 looming behind, just to keep things "civil".

Where's my photoshop….


----------



## bandit571

Box was mailed out this morning…expect it to be delivered to Kenny this coming Friday.

Currently not working on anything big enough to break out the Stanley No. 8, Type 7…..just small stuff…









So this will be as big as I use…..for now.


----------



## sansoo22

Probably the only part of a hand plane restore that Bandit and I do the same. Infilled logo with model paint and tiny brushes.


----------



## HokieKen

That's not red and you misspelled MILLERS FALLS.

Looks good and clean from here!


----------



## sansoo22

> That s not red and you misspelled MILLERS FALLS.
> 
> Looks good and clean from here!
> 
> - HokieKen


Ha…well its not even American made but I decided it was worth the effort anyway.










English Made 4-1/2 aka "Fat Sally" going back to work on some cherry.


----------



## HokieKen

Can't argue with those shavings


----------



## sansoo22

This is a plane I bought "tuned and user ready" before I knew what I was doing. I've tried to like it but it always seemed to let me down.

After I restored and tuned to my liking…which included taking a cup out of the sole that ran nearly its whole length…its a night and day difference. I know I only tested on cherry which is pretty darn easy to plane but it was practically effortless.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah a cupped sole is a dealbreaker on a smoother. Even if the cup is only .002", that's a problem when you're shooting for a cut less than .001" deep.


----------



## ac0rn

The 4 1/2 is one of my main user's


----------



## defrosted

was watching Paul Sellers' video on restoring/salvaging Stanley Bailey planes last week. The plane he was working on had a hollow or cupped sole, a slight valley running slightly diagonally the length of the sole. He mostly flattened it on the diamond plate and I was surprised when he said that this would have to be repeated every few years depending on usage because the cast iron will wear like that from the silicates in wood. I am guessing that working on edges will tend to wear the trough at whatever angle you usually attack the wood at, while planes used mostly to flatten faces will wear somewhat more evenly? I wonder if there is a chart comparing woods abrasiveness?


----------



## Johnny7

Silica is predominantly found in significant concentrations only in tropical woods


----------



## HokieKen

I imagine one would have to use a plane a lot more than I do before they had to flatten the sole repeatedly. It does make me curious though. Maybe when I sharpen a blade, I'll start checking the sole on my planes just to see if they are wearing significantly.


----------



## controlfreak

Speaking of sole flattening. I am trying the get a sole flat and although making progress it has a area on the toe about the size of my thumb that is being stubborn. More like I need to remove a lot of material elsewhere to get to dead flat. I don't se light when I extend a strait edge from the already flat region over it so I must be getting close. I am using 120 grit adhesive on a marble runner (counter top cutoff). is there something more aggressive I can use? I have some diamond stones (300 & 600 $1200) that I use to hone Irons but I don't want to ruin them, if that is possible, on this task. Should I go Diamond plate, use a courser paper or stay the course?


----------



## HokieKen

If it's taking that long CF, I'd drop back to 60 or 80 grit paper until it's cleaned up. Alternatively, don't worry about that spot. If it doesn't affect function, leave it a little low. You can sand it by hand so it doesn't look different if it bugs you.


----------



## corelz125

Kenny said it go to a lower grit. I bought red label ceramic belts.


----------



## controlfreak

> If it s taking that long CF, I d drop back to 60 or 80 grit paper until it s cleaned up. Alternatively, don t worry about that spot. If it doesn t affect function, leave it a little low. You can sand it by hand so it doesn t look different if it bugs you.
> 
> - HokieKen


Oh, it bugs me alright. 80 grit ordered, thanks!


----------



## Lazyman

I use some 80 grit sanding belts that I bought at an estate sale for a dollar each where the tape broke the first time I tried to use them (I guess they were as old-lesson learned). They are 48" long and 6" wide so you can take long swipes on long planes for flattening and rust removal. Makes quick work of them.


----------



## DevinT

I use 80 grit PSA rolls. I first put down a layer of painter's tape on the granite/marble making sure not to overlap and make the gaps as small as possible. Then put the PSA sandpaper on top of the painter's tape. Trust me when I say you don't want to stick PSA sandpaper directly to the granite/marble (unless you like using a scraper and denatured alcohol for hours on-end to get your granite back to a usable state). The PSA lifts right off the painter's tape when you are done with it.

Also, get yourself a prostick rubber block for cleaning your sandpaper and it will last you many times longer.

I use light colored rolls because they show the black streaks easy so you know when the paper is loaded and it is time to rub it with the prostick to unload it. When you can no longer unload it, pull it off and put on fresh.

When all is said and done, just peel off the painter's tape.


----------



## DevinT

The "area on the toe about the size of my thumb" is indicative of long term use jointing the edges of boards whilst using a technique that was taught in schools.

Place a thumb on the toe to push down (keeping the blade in the cut) with the rest of your fingers under the plane riding on the board to feel "plumb" (allowing you to keep the plane upright).

I had the same thumb-sized area on my No 8 and it took about 10 thousand strokes on 80-grit before it disappeared completely (and another 10k strokes to remove the twist and another 10k strokes to get the area in front/behind the mouth to be co-planer with the toe/heel - arguably the most important part)

It probably took many hundreds of jointing operations to cause the thumb sized wear on the sole and I don't think anyone in these modern days can do that unless they work in a factory and use the thing every day. So once removed, I think you are good to go for life.


----------



## DevinT

When I bought my No 8 and it arrived the sole was a twisted banana with cupping the length the of the toe and heel. Basically everything that *could* be wrong with a sole was exaggerated on this specimen.

If I was jointing the edges of boards, I am sure it would have needed less work to rehab.

My take away is that when you can examine a plane in person, you have a chance to see how much it will need to rehab *for your needs*

I needed the No 8 for flattening large surfaces, not edge jointing.

So I at least knew I could leave the cupping in the center alone and not worry about it so-long as I brought everything else around the mouth and sides down to the same level. A little recess in the center of the toe/heel is not going to make it non-functional for that purpose because riding on a large surface it won't matter. But the area in front and behind the mouth *must* be flat for surface flattening.


----------



## Notw

> I use 80 grit PSA rolls. I first put down a layer of painter's tape on the granite/marble making sure not to overlap and make the gaps as small as possible. Then put the PSA sandpaper on top of the painter's tape. Trust me when I say you don't want to stick PSA sandpaper directly to the granite/marble (unless you like using a scraper and denatured alcohol for hours on-end to get your granite back to a usable state). The PSA lifts right off the painter's tape when you are done with it.
> 
> Also, get yourself a prostick rubber block for cleaning your sandpaper and it will last you many times longer.
> 
> I use light colored rolls because they show the black streaks easy so you know when the paper is loaded and it is time to rub it with the prostick to unload it. When you can no longer unload it, pull it off and put on fresh.
> 
> When all is said and done, just peel off the painter's tape.
> 
> - DevinT


I use a heat gun to loosen the adhesive to pull the paper off then some goo gone and it cleans any stubborn residue right off. But then again this is on my scary sharp station that I don't change the paper on very often. For flattening I like to use a piece of MDF clamped to my table saw wing, holds the PSA roll well and peels right off.


----------



## sansoo22

When I'm flattening smoothers I make sure they are dead flat all the way up thru 220 grit on the surface plate. If I get a few slight variances on the final 400 grit I just sande those out by hand. Jack size and larger planes I aim for flat thru 150 grit and take out any variances from 220 up by hand.

I flatten large planes on the table saw with metal grinding belts cut along the tape line. A couple clamps to hold it down and off you go.

Pro tip for taking out twist: CA glue and shim washers. McMaster Carr has quite a nice selection and they are pretty darn cheap for the qaunity you get. Find the right size shims to take out any rock when placed on a flat surface, glue them down, and sand right through them with some 60 or 80 grit.


----------



## Ocelot

Nice tip, Sansoo22


----------



## rad457

I use PSA rolls from a Auto body supply outlet, 180 and 220gr. way less adhesive than a roll from L.V. I have. 
Like to use the out feed table of the jointer, easy access!


----------



## KentInOttawa

> was watching Paul Sellers video on restoring/salvaging Stanley Bailey planes last week. The plane he was working on had a hollow or cupped sole, a slight valley running slightly diagonally the length of the sole. He mostly flattened it on the diamond plate and I was surprised when he said that this would have to be repeated every few years depending on usage because the cast iron will wear like that from the silicates in wood. I am guessing that working on edges will tend to wear the trough at whatever angle you usually attack the wood at, while planes used mostly to flatten faces will wear somewhat more evenly? I wonder if there is a chart comparing woods abrasiveness?
> 
> - defrosted





> Silica is predominantly found in significant concentrations only in tropical woods
> 
> - Johnny7


Regardless of the exact source of the abrasion, wood can be quite abrasive. Here's a picture of 2 bits that were similarly rusted until the lower bit was used yesterday to bore some holes totalling about 30" deep in Spruce.










I will admit to checking my planes for flatness when I first put them into service, but I also don't use any one plane enough to cause me to want to recheck it for wear.


----------



## bandit571

I have a 2-finger test I use to check a plane's sole…IF it passes that…all I'll do is just clean it up..

Feeler gauges will stay IN a drawer with the Ignition Wrenches (remember those?) where they belong, period.

As Patrick Leach is wont to say: "A perfectly flat sole? Good luck with that, as they do not exist. Yet the oldtimers USED those planes everyday to earn a living"

Usual Suspects, for today…









Wound up not needing the woodie…other two worked quite well…one for rebate work, the other as a shoulder plane…









Simply because I only have a depth stop and fence for one…


----------



## controlfreak

> I use 80 grit PSA rolls. I first put down a layer of painter's tape on the granite/marble making sure not to overlap and make the gaps as small as possible. Then put the PSA sandpaper on top of the painter's tape. Trust me when I say you don't want to stick PSA sandpaper directly to the granite/marble (unless you like using a scraper and denatured alcohol for hours on-end to get your granite back to a usable state). The PSA lifts right off the painter's tape when you are done with it.
> 
> Also, get yourself a prostick rubber block for cleaning your sandpaper and it will last you many times longer.
> 
> I use light colored rolls because they show the black streaks easy so you know when the paper is loaded and it is time to rub it with the prostick to unload it. When you can no longer unload it, pull it off and put on fresh.
> 
> When all is said and done, just peel off the painter's tape.
> 
> - DevinT


Thank You, I think the painters tape trick will speed things up. Also acetone seems to take the glue of very well after the baulk is removed. I messed up my razor blade trying to remove so that shut me down last night. It worked out because I needed some exercise, I started rough milling some SYP for my window sash project. Broke out the hand saw and then I put my No.8 on the edge after honing. I will need to let the moisture content drop a bit before getting it to final size. It's at 19% but I can tell by how heavy it is that it needs some time. I got a plane and a grandbaby that need attention anyway.


----------



## bandit571

A box is out for delivery, this morning…..Roanoke, VA area….


----------



## HokieKen

> A box is out for delivery, this morning…..Roanoke, VA area….
> 
> - bandit571


 She landed Bandit! Thanks again  Two nice #3 size MF planes that don't say MF. One C-man and a Dunlap. The Craftsman is super nice. Dunlap will find some purpose too )


----------



## HokieKen




----------



## Thedustydutchman

Does anyone have a full listing of type 17,18 and 19 sizes? I know they have the obvious 3,4,5,6,7 but did they make 8s or 1/2 sizes in those years? I have decided to stick with these types and get rid of the others I have acquired. I know I am definitely the odd one out but I just like these better. Maybe its the large adjustment knob? I dont know.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Does anyone have a full listing of type 17,18 and 19 sizes? I know they have the obvious 3,4,5,6,7 but did they make 8s or 1/2 sizes in those years? I have decided to stick with these types and get rid of the others I have acquired. I know I am definitely the odd one out but I just like these better. Maybe its the large adjustment knob? I dont know.
> 
> - Thedustydutchman


I also like the adjustment knob on the T18s; they just seem to "speak to me". I have a set of 3C, 4C, 5C & 6C with the T18 knob and T19 bases, but all made in Canada. I've been on the lookout for a 4 1/2C, 5 1/2C and a 7C (Made in Canada) for the last 2 years but haven't seen any yet. I'm not interested in a #8, so I haven't been looking for them. I suspect that they are out there, but that there weren't as many of them because of the short production run and the declining market for hand tools as power shops took off.


----------



## drsurfrat

According to Walter/Smith bench plane study
T17: 42-45, T18: 46-47, T19, 48-61

No 1. ... ... 1867-1943
No 2. ... ... 1867-1961 / C 1898-1943
No 3. ... ... 1867-1984 / C 1898-1970
No 4. ... ... 1867-1984 / C 1898-1970
No 4+1/2. 1884-1962 / C 1898-1961
No 5. ... ... 1867-1984 / C 1898-1970
No 5+1/4. 1921-1983 / C 1921-1942
No 5+1/2. 1898-1962 / C 1898-1958
No 6. ... ... 1869-1984 / C 1898-1984
No 7. ... ... 1869-1984 / C 1898-1964
No 8. ... ... 1869-1984 / C 1898-1984


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Perfect! I guess that means I have a lot more to find!


----------



## corelz125

I have a #5 type 18 is my go to when it's sharp. It didn't take much to tune it up either.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

My no5 type 19 is my absolute favorite plane. It works beautifully and was easy to set up as well.


----------



## DevinT

I don't know how it happened, but I took out my Veritas No 4 to work on a Christmas gift for my Aunt and as I was planing, something felt strange.

I didn't think I had the blade out far enough to actually make a cut yet, but I was getting "shavings"

Stopped, looked at the board, and it was getting all gouged up. What was going on?



















Flipped the plane over and goodness gracious the toe had been hit on something and there was a small dent causing a disturbance in the flatness of the sole.

Grandpa's vice to the rescue! I proudly exclaimed. This was very exciting, as this was the first time I was going to really get to use it since my Dad dropped it off a few weeks ago.










Oh, would you look at that! The jaws are just under the width of a standard 2×4, which means the risers for my surfacing jig make wonderful wooden jaws! Let's get this thing clamped up so we can service the sole on the Veritas.























































Wow! I found out that I LOVE having a vise. I love *this* vise. So easy to use, held tight, and made cleaning up the sole much much much easier than without.

No wonder my dad has been wanting to give me this thing. It's a rock. Probably where the name came from: it's a Rock Island pipe vise with blacksmith anvil. Love this thing.


----------



## HokieKen

Very nice Devin! For reference, that's a machinist's or mechanic's vise. A pipe vise doesn't have the wide flat jaws or the anvil. Your's may also have pipe jaws under the flat jaws. A lot of them do. In any case, definitely a must-have tool IMO.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> In any case, definitely a must-have tool IMO.
> 
> - HokieKen


Agreed. A 4" (or so) mechanic's vise comes in handy in so many ways on so many days. I refurbished this one that I inherited from my step-father. I'm keeping it until one of my kids gets it. Like Devin, I value both the functionality and the history.










Devin, off and on you'll read about people easing (chamfering or rounding) the ends or edges of their planes, either as a result of similar damage or as a way of preventing it. I have a couple with the edges eased and they do feel nicer to use.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah I meant to mention that too and I forgot Kent. I like to ease the edges of my soles for the same purpose. Especially on smoothers.


----------



## corelz125

Every shop needs a vise like that. Vise I use was my grandfather's also. I also have a small anvil that was his. 
Devin you need to find the culprit that nicked it in the first place.


----------



## rad457

Remember talking to a fellow LJ who did some prototype tests on the NX60 for L.V. the one he got cut his fingers when he got it.


----------



## DevinT

Thanks! Rob Cosman does this too but his explanation as to why did not hit home until now.


----------



## donwilwol

I just did a count in my head, I've got 7 different vises in my shop. If I had 3 more I'd bet I'd use them. Definitely a must have!


----------



## HokieKen

We counting all vises Don? If so, I bet I can double that ;-)


----------



## sansoo22

Machinists aren't aloud in this competition. You guys have vises to hold other vises with which to hold your work piece.

I only 5 in the shop and of those one is never used and my old Morgan isn't even mounted to a bench at the moment so it barely counts.


----------



## HokieKen

Did some milling today for boards for Christmas gifts. I let the electron eater do the heavy lifting then I couldn't decide which smoother I wanted to use so I let two of them battle it out for the starting slot.









Buck Rogers got the call because the #10 needs a quick trip to the Worksharp. Turns out the thing that makes the Buck Rogers so recognizable is also what makes it a not-so-great user. Damn tennite tote will raise a blister during extended use. If I were going to make it my go-to smoother, I'd either need a glove or have to replace the tote.

In spite of that though, it did a damn fine job


----------



## DLK

From whom do you order the mirco-mesh that is getting your planes so shiny? What grit or microns do you usually  purchase?


----------



## DevinT

Speaking of horrible totes, my first bench plane was a Shop Fox. After 3 hours of use, I experienced severe nerve damage and lost feeling in 2 fingers for 3 months!! The plane was promptly returned after those 3 hours


----------



## HokieKen

I assume you're asking Devin since those 2 planes I showed are far from shiny. But I will recommend these pads from Amazon if you want to really polish stuff up. They aren't the micro-mesh brand but I prefer these because they seem to last significantly longer than the brand name ones. Though I do get equally good results from both.

And now that I go get the link, I see that Amazon doesn't have the Legacy Woodturning ones any more. At least not right now. So, maybe the brand name is the best. Or maybe somebody else has the Legacy ones…


----------



## DevinT

Silicon carbide P400 to P600 will get you a mirror finish


----------



## bandit571

Two planes in use this evening…working on a "house" for a third one..









Panel for Box #2's lid..needed a bit of work, out of the clamps..









Good thing this is the underside..









Cleaning up Box #1….getting ready to saw the lid off…needs the top flattened..









Lid sawing, had issues..









Needs to be leveled a bit..









We have ways….









Getting there…









At least the #79 will fit….adding a keeper to keep it from sliding around….

Guess I had better update that blog? Had to stop…Uncle Charles had cramped up the toes in the left foot, BADLY…


----------



## RWE

Just got home with an interesting find. I keep hanging around in Bandit territory. Bought what I think is a Type 4 #6 for $10.00. What is even more interesting is the aftermarket iron is a Riverside Tool Co. iron. Mos would be excited because it is a very thick iron. I will post more once I get it cleaned up.

Dow W. lists Riverside Tool Co. on his site. Their logo is a Anvil with Trade and Mark on either side. Don, if you have more info on Riverside Tool Co. (not the Montgomery Wards line, but the 1800's one in New York), send a link or post here.

Here is a picture of the logo/trademark for the iron that I found on the internet.










My iron and plane just got home and I have not cleaned them yet.



















Iron is* thick*.









If there are some Type 4 junkies/experts out there, see if you can verify my conclusion. No mark on the body, no mark on the lateral, low front knob. I am not sure about the whether the tote is original. I have one or two type 4's in the shop so I will compare. I do know that the tote front screw is not original. Anyone have a screw they would turn lose, PM me.


----------



## bandit571

Has a look of a Union ….....Late model….mainly from the lateral lever's pivot style. The rivet is below the disc, when you lean the lever to the left, the iron will also lean to the left….unlike say a Stanley lever….


----------



## RWE

Thank you Bandit. I had noted the hallmarks of what I thought was an early Stanley and never ever focused on the Lateral Adjuster. In any event, the only Union I own is a transitional smoother, so I am proud to have it. I think the Lakeside that I have is also Union made. Looking forward to cleaning the 6 up and getting it sharp.

I will have to school myself up on the Union types.

Also, the knob screw and the tote screw did not look right, conventional screw and they don't look like brass that you would see on a Stanley. Will check that, but that was of concern when I was studying buying it.


----------



## sansoo22

I think that 6 has a bit of Ohio Tool vibe to it. Everything except the chip breaker feels very Ohio/keen kutter. They used steel screws for tote and knob and thick irons. The depth adjuster post hanging way past the brass is very Ohio.

As for the Lakeside if it's number is prefixed with a R it's a Rockford. I have an R6 and R7 both with lakeside irons in them.


----------



## RWE

I guess I will have to pull it apart and see if there are any markings hidden beneath the frog or tote to help identify it properly. Did Ohio Tool have the same type lateral as a Union (with the twist).

I will dig out the Lakeside (#3) and see if I see an R. I believe that I had got it figured out to be a Union, but now the certainty in my universe is all gone.


----------



## sansoo22

Ohio used a twisted lateral lever like Union. The bed where the frog sits in the body on Ohio made planes is machined with several small flat spots or thin rectangles depending on it's size. I've restored 6 of them so far and they are a royal PITA to tape off for paint.

I like getting mystery planes to disassemble and figure out who made them. It's part of the fun of rust hunting.


----------



## bandit571

One usual clue: Ohio had an 0- in front of the plane's number…Union just a No. in front of the number…

I have an Ohio No. 0-7 in the til. One of the 3 Unions I used to have , one was a No. 5A….for a 5-1/2 size plane….

Also, Ohio used a hexagon hole instead of the large round hole in the iron, as Stanley held a patent on that…

Also the twist in the lateral was different between the two makers. Later model Unions did have UNION on their lever caps…


----------



## Lazyman

I received a package from the North Pole yesterday. I was naughty and opened it early. Inside were 2 nicely restored toys.

First was this 80M cabinet scraper. It was either restored to like new or almost never used. 


















Also included was this Stanley 64 Spoke shave also in great condition.


















I am going to need some help identifying who Elf#76 is









Whoever you are, nicely done and thanks. These will both get used in my shop. I wasn't able to spend much time fettling yesterday but a quick setup yielded some nice shavings from both.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice package Nathan  I don't know that I've ever seen a "M" model of the #80. I do know you can't have too many of those scrapers though. And it looks like new. The spokeshave is handy to have around too. Something else you can't be over-burdened with.

And Elf #76 is Jeff ;-)


----------



## RWE

Bandit: The reason I was thinking Type 4 Stanley was because there were no marks front or back on the plane body. So the way the plane was numbered doesn't help. Also, it seems that the iron was replaced with the "Anvil" Riverside tool Co. iron, so the hexagon hole point cannot be used. I will have to get the frog off to see what that tells me. Later tonight I will try to break it down.









Sansoo: If it is an Ohio Tool plane might the mouth opening be wider than a Stanley or a Union, in order to accommodate the thick irons like in the KK series of planes? Since this plane seems to have a replacement that is thick perhaps that would point to it being an Ohio Tool model. One would assume the mouth would be a bit bigger for those planes? Do you have one you can measure. I just checked the mystery 6 and it is 1/4 inch wide. I checked several Stanleys and they were 3/16 wide.

*To heck with work, I think I will see if I can get the frog loose.*

Found a new Antique Mall on an alternate route to my daughter's home, where we travel very often, two hours north of where I live. One vendor had some nice push drills and drawknives.


















He also had some high end braces (price wise), one of which was a North Brothers Yankee brace. I don't think I had ever seen a Yankee before.

I looked


----------



## Lazyman

> Nice package Nathan  I don t know that I ve ever seen a "M" model of the #80. I do know you can t have too many of those scrapers though. And it looks like new. The spokeshave is handy to have around too. Something else you can t be over-burdened with.
> 
> And Elf #76 is Jeff ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks Jeff!

A quick search yielded one comment on another forum that suggest that M indicates it is made from malleable iron.


----------



## HokieKen

That's correct Nathan. Just a different cast iron alloy. Not sure there's any real advantage over regular gray iron unless you're a klutz and drop your tools all the time ;-) There's definitely no disadvantage with the malleable iron though.


----------



## RWE

> Bandit: The reason I was thinking Type 4 Stanley was because there were no marks front or back on the plane body. So the way the plane was numbered doesn t help. Also, it seems that the iron was replaced with the "Anvil" Riverside tool Co. iron, so the hexagon hole point cannot be used. I will have to get the frog off to see what that tells me. Later tonight I will try to break it down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sansoo: If it is an Ohio Tool plane might the mouth opening be wider than a Stanley or a Union, in order to accommodate the thick irons like in the KK series of planes? Since this plane seems to have a replacement that is thick perhaps that would point to it being an Ohio Tool model. One would assume the mouth would be a bit bigger for those planes? Do you have one you can measure. I just checked the mystery 6 and it is 1/4 inch wide. I checked several Stanleys and they were 3/16 wide.
> 
> *To heck with work, I think I will see if I can get the frog loose.*


Here is the frog bottom, the frog seating area, and the screws for the tote and knob. No numbers, nothing on the plane body to help identify it. it is corrugated.




























Can you say Ohio Tool or Union based on the frog mating area?


----------



## donwilwol

Stanley Bases


----------



## donwilwol

android double post


----------



## RWE

I am thinking it is Union based on the rounded v shaped feature where the frog mates. That seems to be a singular feature of Union planes.

However, I cannot find a Union type study that has a note about bases with no number showing or other marks. The new Union startup/web site has a study through the first two types and nothing after those.

So it is probably a late Union as Bandit hypothesized and there seems to be no good resource to actually type it or date it. I think Union went out of business around 1920, so that might be the era it is from. Possibly, it was made by Union and sold by a hardware store or something like that, hence the lack of marks on the plane body.

The wider mouth is also a curious feature. 1/4 inch versus 3/16 for Stanley.

If anyone has a link to a good Union type study, please post it.

body.


----------



## Notw

Stanley No. 80 vs. Stanley No. 80M for Hokie Ken


----------



## RWE

Discussion Don's web site:

Based on this thread, it looks like my plane is an early Stanley buyout model with a pre-Stanley lever cap (no Union on lever cap) or a Union Frankenplane. The position of the lateral adjust washer is the differentiator.

It matches the plane in the middle other than the Union lever cap. Lever cap looks like the one one the left. I don't see a number or any markings on the base, but I cannot see the rear of the base in the photo.

It makes sense that a cap iron from the previous series could have been used during the transition with Stanley. I had a discussion with Hokie about the same phenomenon with Millers Falls planes during transitioning between types. Just practical to use up existing stock.

If all of this is true, the plane probably dates to the very early 1920's.


----------



## RWE

Dumb question (or dumber) for the day. I just got a wire wheel mounted on an old motor at a garage sale a while back. I bought a new wire wheel, with brass ends on the wire.

To clean a plane iron, my previous technique would be to soak if for several days in Evaporust. After that, i would go to Harbor Freight scotchbrite balls on the drill press to clean it more and polish it.

Do any of you just go to the wire wheel directly for rust removal? I was not too sure about how aggressive the wire might be. I am out of Evaporust.


----------



## HokieKen

I do RWE. I wire wheel it to get all the surface rust off and get down into the pits then go to sandpaper or stones to smooth it up. I don't polish the whole thing but I'll polish the top where the name is that sticks up above the chipbreaker. And of course the bottom gets polished near the cutting edge but not along the full length.


----------



## sansoo22

I go straight to the wire wheel as well. Have a medium and fine stainless brushes on my 6" bench grinder. After that it goes into the ultrasonic parts cleaner. I haven't used Evaporust in so long I tossed all of mine out a couple weeks ago.


----------



## HokieKen

> Stanley No. 80 vs. Stanley No. 80M for Hokie Ken
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Notw


Interesting, looks a little smaller. Is the blade the same width or is it smaller too?


----------



## Notw

> Interesting, looks a little smaller. Is the blade the same width or is it smaller too?
> 
> - HokieKen


Blades are both the same width at 2-3/4" wide, in person they don't look as different in size as they do in the pictures, the No. 80 may be a fraction shorter


----------



## corelz125

I go to the wire wheel on my bench grinder. It does a good job and unlike a wire wheel on the 4" it's a lot softer and doesn't hurt when my fingers get to close the it unlike the grinder.
I say that's a Union also. It has some Ohio characteristics but seems more Union.


----------



## Notw

for me straight to the wire wheel versus rust removal (i like electrolysis) depends on the amount of surface rust. I am not a big fan of making a huge cloud of rust dust in the air so if it has a ton of rust it takes a bath first then goes to the wire wheel


----------



## sansoo22

NotW - Don't quote me on this, as I was wrong about RWEs plane being an Ohio, but I think your #80 is an early type. I have a sweetheart era #80 that is shaped identical to your #80M. Does your #80 have any markings on the clamping plate?


----------



## donwilwol

i go straight to a wire wheel and never ever soak a plane blade in anything except maybe diesel fuel if i found one that dirty. I'm not of fan of soaking a hand plane in anything, but the harden steel of a blade is extra susceptible.


----------



## RWE

Well, I feel a little bit better now. From the Union #6 posted about above.

I used the wire wheel but I found the Porter Cable Restorer was more effective for those flat surfaces. Then I polished the parts on a green buffing wheel a bit.

The Riverside Tool Co. logo is pretty cool.

I am full of dumb questions. *Can you wear out a wire wheel or get it so that it does not cut well? * I did not put the new wheel on and the old one seemed to be slow to clean a surface. So I switched to the Restorer with almost immediate results, Scotchbrite coarse drum.



















Before:


----------



## DLK

I stopped using the wire wheel and now use 
SCOTCH-BRITE 
6 in, Radial Bristle Brush, Arbor Hole, Ceramic,
400 Abrasive Grit
Mfr. Model # 61500187762
I didn't like the pieces of metal that boke of the wire wheel and impaled in my skin.

I like the scotch brite radial bristle brush wheel a lot.


----------



## drsurfrat

> I didn't like the pieces of metal that broke off the wire wheel and impaled in my skin.
> - Combo Prof


 Mine shoots them while I am not looking and buries them in my belly


----------



## RWE

You guys are wimps. I use the Restorer and have to be ready to dodge a plane iron that was not secured properly. I have had a saw plate or two jump and kick back. I made a board with a stop to hold those saw plates. But if you can secure the part, the Restorer is great. Just stand out of the possible trajectory. LOL.


----------



## bandit571

Old plane, new home…









A Craftsman #79 ( early Sargent #79)









Fitted into place…waiting on Box No.2 to get done, then both will get a finish…









Closed up, until I need the plane, again..


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## RWE

> You guys are wimps. I use the Restorer and have to be ready to dodge a plane iron that was not secured properly. I have had a saw plate or two jump and kick back. I made a board with a stop to hold those saw plates. But if you can secure the part, the Restorer is great. Just stand out of the possible trajectory. LOL.
> 
> - RWE


Well, me running my mouth just paid some dividends. As I meandered back to the shop, it occurred to me that it might be a good idea to lock the Restorer and use it that way. All because of my last post where I was trying to be funny.

Got the #6 sides done without great jeopardy. Yeah.










Now to sandblast or not to sandblast, that is the question.

Please excuse the shop mess. Have been doing household renovations have not done any fun things in the shop for almost a year. It is in total disarray from carting tools up to the house and then not putting them back properly.


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## KentInOttawa

> Old plane, new home…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bandit571


That's a nice case, Bandit. I was watching your progress and then a similar case with a 78 came up for sale locally. My first thought was: "Bandit", then it sunk in that my local listing would be the last place that you'd post.


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## bandit571

Have a pair of 79s…one complete, one not so….Benn putting them to work lately


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## Mosquito

Recent sharpening seems to work…


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## HokieKen

I like that box Bandit. I need to make a few such boxes for some of these planes Mos' keeps pawning off on me…

RWE, I want one of those things. The Restorer. Not another #6 ;-) I went poking around on Amazon and it looks like there are sanding drums available for an animal like that. Which got me to thinking… wonder why nobody makes scotchbrite sleeves for sanding drums? Sure would be a handy thing to be able to pop one on my OSS to clean stuff up. I have a wheel for my Worksharp but it's pretty grabby and only works well for small stuff I can get a strong grip on. And I have belts for my belt grinder but sometimes something wider than 2" would be much preferred. So if anyone knows of any such sleeves (I couldn't find anything in quick google search) I'd love to know!

Those are some nice shavings Mos! Now let's see how long it takes you to remove 1/4" from that board with the plane set like that ;-)


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## DevinT

To plane the Cocobolo before I work it or not, that is the question.

Assuming I sharpened to insanely sharp, I wonder just how hard 3000 janka hardness is to hand plane.

I don't know if I can resist the temptation.

I got a good deal on a 12" x 3" x 1" thick hunk of the stuff and am going to make some feet for a Christmas project I am working on.


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## HokieKen

I plane Cocobolo often Devin. It's not that bad because it's not as abrasive as a lot of similar exotics. I actually don't run it through my power planer because I'm usually working with pieces too short to safely feed through. I cut to rough size with my bandsaw and 4-square it with a smoother. IIRC you don't have a bandsaw or a table saw? If you have to remove a lot of material with planes, keep the stones handy and stretch before you start ;-)


----------



## RWE

> RWE, I want one of those things. The Restorer. Not another #6 ;-) I went poking around on Amazon and it looks like there are sanding drums available for an animal like that. Which got me to thinking… wonder why nobody makes scotchbrite sleeves for sanding drums? Sure would be a handy thing to be able to pop one on my OSS to clean stuff up. I have a wheel for my Worksharp but it s pretty grabby and only works well for small stuff I can get a strong grip on. And I have belts for my belt grinder but sometimes something wider than 2" would be much preferred. So if anyone knows of any such sleeves (I couldn t find anything in quick google search) I d love to know!
> 
> - HokieKen


Great minds Hokie. I looked over the internet for sanding sleeves for a drum sander. I have the reciprocating sander that can swap between belts and drums. No luck.

What I am going to try is to see if the holes on the Restorer drums can be rigged to fit on a pipe/bar in my lathe. I need a new Scotchbrite Restorer drum anyway, so I am going to see if I can rig the old one in the lathe. Putting the little hand held Restorer in the vise was great, but you still have to fight to get to some corners with all the bulk of the machine around the drum exposure.

I use a Penn State Industries three buffing wheel solution in the lathe all the time.

I figure if you have that restorer drum wide open where you can bring the work to it and have no obstacles around the drum, it would be ideal. Having written this, it occurs to me that a bolt of the correct size would allow you to mount one to a drill press. May try that, but the lathe and horizontal presentation would be better I think.

For the record, I don't like #6's much. That is my third, but what is an addict to do when one jumps in your shopping cart. You are forced to bring it home and try to help it live a while longer.


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## RWE

Testament to the Restorer. Not much time to get to this point. I am going to see if the Restorer drum will fit my reciprocating sander. If so, that might be a pretty good way to go.

I think one could buy the scotchbrite drum and put it in a drill press no problem, if you don't want to fork for the Restorer. However, I do a lot of saws and it is great for saw plates doing the hand held method and a stop block to keep the saw plate from flying away.

Woodcraft has started carrying the Restorer parts. Mine was purchased at Lowes or on Amazon. Home Depot does not carry it, at least so far.


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## Lazyman

Anyone know how the Restorer compares to these angle grinder versions? Some look like they come with angle grinders but there some that are just attachments for an angle grinder. There are a bunch of different types of drums for these including non-wooven abrasive and nylon abrasive wire at various grits. There are also buffing wheels for them. If I was going to rig up a lathe version, I would probably design it around these since they seem to be generic (and don't appear to fit the restorer).


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## bandit571

Think I MIGHT have found something…









Hmmmm…maybe add the other part as a separate label? Like No. 79…..will have to do a bit of drawing, take a picture or three…


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## RWE

My apologies. I keep referring to the "Scotchbrite" wheel, when it is probably a quite different type of material. Most of you understand to interpolate what I mean with what I say, assuming you are married.

This is the equivalent of the type of wheel I have been using.  Paint Stripper type

When I got the Restorer, I got a series of sanding sleeves which fit on a universal center, and the stand alone self contained aggressive "paint stripper" type of drum.

I am not sure if the polishing/buffing types would work well for heavy rust removal. You could get a series and do some scratch removal. I just go to the green compound buffing wheel after doing the restorer, but having a softer grit/abrasive step would probably be good.


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## DevinT

> I plane Cocobolo often Devin. It s not that bad because it s not as abrasive as a lot of similar exotics. I actually don t run it through my power planer because I m usually working with pieces too short to safely feed through. I cut to rough size with my bandsaw and 4-square it with a smoother. IIRC you don t have a bandsaw or a table saw? If you have to remove a lot of material with planes, keep the stones handy and stretch before you start ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks Ken! Just what I needed to here to build some confidence


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## Lazyman

I've never tried to figure out the age of this one but here are logos on my #4

















Man. How did that cap get so dirty? This was one of my first plane purchases before I knew anything about hand planes, much less restoring them, so maybe I just never cleaned off the original grime?


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## Lazyman

double post


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## RWE

Lazyman:

Based on the lateral adjustment style, was that old Craftsman a Stanley or a Sargent? One of my favorite Jacks was a Craftsman made by Sargent. The teardrop hole looks like a Stanley.


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## Ocelot

I kept waiting for somebody else to say it…

The 80M was identical to the 80 except for the M (and the maliable iron, of course).

The difference in the shape of two tools pictured is the old-style vs. the new-style 80. I have one of the old-style and 2 or 3 of the new style.

New is 1904, I think. (or 1914 more likely) After that they never changed.

The upper one in the picture is the old style.

The real effect of the change is the CG. The old style, if held losely, will rotate in your hands (can't remember which way). The new (1904+) will stay level. It's better. I don't use my old-style one.

Of course, I don't use my new-style one either, LOL. But the point is I don't intend to use the old-style one.

I didn't post this earlier because I ddn't remember the details and haven't had a chance to check my shop.



> Stanley No. 80 vs. Stanley No. 80M for Hokie Ken
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Notw


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## Notw

According to blood and gore the M was the trade school version made out of malleable iron. I don't use them a ton but I do find they do a good job of getting rid of squeeze out on glue joints.


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## Ocelot

Looking on eBay, I see that the change in shape was 1914. This is from the clamping bar on an early new-style 80.

I don't know if there were any 80M prior to 1914, but the later 80M were the same shape as the 80 of the same era.


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## Johnny7

Good stuff, Ocelot.


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## Johnny7

> According to blood and gore the M was the trade school version made out of malleable iron.
> 
> - Notw


To be accurate, he stops well short of declaring that it was the trade school version. This is one of Leach's many speculations.
He writes:

" ...the malleable iron version of the tool, probably aimed at the punks that populated the trade schools …"


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## DLK

The scotch-brite drums run around $100 each.










They are thread for 5//8"-11 so yes you could easily spin one on a lathe. On the other hand from Empire Abrasives you can get one of theses for $29.










They have 4 grits, 60, 120, 240, 320 . I may give these a try and rig them up like drum sanders for the drill press.


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## corelz125

I forget the years but they changed the size of the screws on the clamping bar on the 80's.


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## RWE

> The scotch-brite drums run around $100 each.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are thread for 5//8"-11 so yes you could easily spin one on a lathe. On the other hand from Empire Abrasives you can get one of theses for $29.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have 4 grits, 60, 120, 240, 320 . I may give these a try and rig them up like drum sanders for the drill press.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I was just in the shop. The restorer uses a 1/2 inch arbor. The drum is 4 inches wide, so a 6 inch bolt with threads for the last two inches (1/2) inch diameter should work for a drill press.

The Restorer drum I used, which works very well is on Amazon for *$19* and change.










I made a mistake in calling the linked Restorer drum a "Scotchbrite" product. I think it is a more abrasive and different animal. I have Scotchbrite balls from Harbor Freight and while they are cheap, they do no cut that well, more for polishing. Before you spend a lot of money, get one of the coarser grits and see if they work and if they hold up. I would expect the drum to work better than those balls however. I can vouch for the results of the linked Restorer paint removal drum. In the notes about the product, they mention rust removal as one of the things it is good for.

The existing arbor on my Penn State three wheel buffing jig for the lathe is 3/4 inch. So I may see if there are some 3/4 inch products, or look for a 1/2 inch rod to use for the drum. I am thinking the drill press will do what I want.

It looks like all the products use hard rubber to form the arbor hole.


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## vjc

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this but I would like some expert opinions on this. This is one of the planes i've inherited. This one is a Stanley No. 5C type six. The original frog was broken so I bought a replacement on Ebay. Starteed to clean it up and I noticed this crack:









It looks like the crack does not go all the way through and it doesn't extend to the mouth. What should be done if I want to use the plane? Thinking about drilling a small hole at each end of crack. Is that a good idea or should it be brazed?


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## HokieKen

No holes at the ends vjc. They'll just create stress points in the cast iron that thin and close to the edges. If it were me, with a crack that shallow, I'd probably try some silver solder just to reinforce it. Brazing is an option too but I think you would have to grind it a little bigger to do that.

There's a good chance you can use it forever and it never be a factor too.


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## bandit571

Might check with Dave over at "Chisel & Forge" as he was the one that fixed my Millers Falls No. 14 one year…even made a video about it….


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## drsurfrat

I'm with Kenny, just use it. If it does eventually crack through, you can always get a new bed. I know it's inherited, but it's still a tool. And one of the easier parts to replace.

One of my favorite jokes is "It's my favorite ax, it's had 10 handles and 4 heads, but it's still my favorite ax."

BTW, definitely the right place to post…


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## corelz125

Use it see if it gets bigger. If it goes to the mouth then look to replace or repair.


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## ac0rn

Stanley Tools-John Walter shows this trademark for the years 1923 - 1935



> Looking on eBay, I see that the change in shape was 1914. This is from the clamping bar on an early new-style 80.
> 
> I don t know if there were any 80M prior to 1914, but the later 80M were the same shape as the 80 of the same era.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Ocelot


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## Lazyman

> Lazyman:
> 
> Based on the lateral adjustment style, was that old Craftsman a Stanley or a Sargent? One of my favorite Jacks was a Craftsman made by Sargent. The teardrop hole looks like a Stanley.
> 
> - RWE


I can never remember which style is which but I think this is the Sargent style with the end bent into a horseshoe? Here are pictures of the frog and lateral.


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## adot45

I'm sure most of you guys have seen this but for those that haven't…...from the Virginia toolworks site.


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## donwilwol

> Lazyman:
> 
> Based on the lateral adjustment style, was that old Craftsman a Stanley or a Sargent? One of my favorite Jacks was a Craftsman made by Sargent. The teardrop hole looks like a Stanley.
> 
> - RWE
> 
> I can never remember which style is which but I think this is the Sargent style with the end bent into a horseshoe? Here are pictures of the frog and lateral.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Lazyman


That is a newer Stanley (similar to handyman)


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## Lazyman

...and probably only works about as well as a Handyman too. It seems to need constant adjustment, though this is pretty much the last plane I reach for in my stock. I've got more #4s than I need and this one will probably be one of the first ones to go when I finally decide it is time to liberate a couple of them.


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## vjc

Thank you all for the help. I think I will just use it and hope for the best.


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## HokieKen

I recently posted a blog on fixing a tote like yours vjc if you're interested in doing that.


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## vjc

Good idea, think I'll try that - and I have a Stanley 35 with a similar problem. Thanks.


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## 33706

*Regarding all the recent posts about sole flatness:*

Once again I'll extoll the virtues of Transitional planes. Whenever there is an out-of-flat condition, you can quickly remedy it with a couple of light passes on your jointer. Flatness achieved in 15 seconds, rather than the tedious hours spent on an iron based plane to get it right. And if the sole is beyond saving, you can create a new replacement sole as below:


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## sansoo22

Would this concern anyone else? Bottom hole is original and the top seems to be drilled and tap to fit an unknown maker's tote. This is a Marsh M4-1/2 and the added heft of this size smoother coupled with how thin that sidewall is has me a bit concerned if I want to put this in to regular service.

My thoughts were JB Weld fill or sacrifice a tote rod by cutting it off afters its seated then getting out the dremel to grind it down smooth.


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## RWE

I would think JB Weld would work. No need to commit the sin of wasting a good rod.

Do I recall that you have a blog on your plane refurb techniques? I may go full Sansoo on the latest plane. What I am wondering about is how polished your plane sides get. I have done the Restorer and gotten down to shinny metal, but I was wondering if you Random Orbital or hand sand to a high grit. What progression do you use if so?


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## Johnny7

.


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## Johnny7

> My thoughts were JB Weld fill or sacrifice a tote rod by cutting it off afters its seated then getting out the dremel to grind it down smooth.
> 
> - sansoo22


I vote for the tote rod stub approach


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## HokieKen

I think either approach would work. If it's the standard 12-20 thread though, I'd chase it out with a 1/4-20 tap and use an off-the-shelf screw to fix it rather than waste a good tote rod. If you use a low grade screw (not hardened) and high-strength thread locker on it, then you can go back and chase the good threads with a tap and have a structurally good-as-new thread. JB Weld would probably work just as well but I find it can be somewhat brittle so I'd probably go with a plug instead with a wall that thin.


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## sansoo22

Thanks Johnny and RWE for the suggestions. I have a rod from a knob that has seen waaay better days. I'll cut the garbage threads off it and run a little jb weld on the threads before installing it. I won't feel bad sacrificing something I would probably never use on a plane otherwise.

RWE - I do have a blog and ironically just started another today. I either sand by hand or using a sanding block. Progression all depends on how ugly the plane was to start with but assuming I used all grits it goes 60, 80, 150, 220, and 400. I used to slip in a 320 and finish at 600 but i've learned cast iron scratches so easily why bother.


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## defrosted

I have acquired for the sum total of $30 cash money 2 size 5 1/4 BAILEY planes, and still do not have one to use.

Between them I have acquired 2 bodies with enlarged arched rib, frog adjustment screw hole behind the frog, but only one adjustment screw and no yokes. They both have BAILEY on the nose, knob rings, MADE IN USA behind the knob, U stamped under the tote, and No 5 1/4 behind the tote. One is mat finish with a hang hole on the tail and japanned even on the mating surfaces. The other is scratch signed and a clear gloss finish covers the signature, rust, japanning, cheeks and everywhere top and bottom except where the frog covers, so I am not sure who "refinished" it. Neither any big deal to me, but it gets better…

One came with an all-over black japanned frog, including bearing surfaces, and no slot for either rib and just sitting on top of the rib, stamped C55, whale tale lateral with raised folded washerless end, solid one piece wishbone also japanned, small steel adjustment nut with 3 rows of knurling, and the ogee-less top. The other frog is japanned cordovan except on mating surfaces, larger solid steel adjustment nut with 2 rows of knurling and no rear recess, washerless U shaped folded later, split pressed wishbone and ogee top, stamped C455.

One came with the proper modern Stanley blade but has a lever cap from a Sargent 409 that had been ground down skinny enough to fit between the cheeks. The breaker is also ground down from 4 or 5 size Sargent and is too "long" between the leading edge and the rectangular adjustment hole to allow the blade to be retracted. The other had appropriate Stanley blade, breaker and lever.

One had a tote that is #2 sized, not 3 with hex nut and washer holding it down on the shaft. Not sure what plane the tote came from, #2 or transitional, or what? Looks birch-ish and is in very good shape if anyone needs a 2ish tote…

Both knobs are sitting on top of the knob rings, no tapered bases to fit in the rings and the black painted one is cracked already but the one that looks like rosewood is ok so far. The nut holding the black tote appears to be aluminum.

So, lots of parts that almost work together. actually one plane is working decently but I wish it had a frog compatible with the adjustment screw and not the hip 60s look. I am wondering how I missed most of this mish-mash while buying them, but the dim light in the basement can be blamed for lots of missed details. Yeah, the dim light. That was it…


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## donwilwol

I've had the dim light problem a few times. The voices in my head seem to provoke some of my bad decisions as well. And that old calendar with the girl standing next to the 1968 mustang convertible is always a bit of a distraction! I'm pretty sure my tin foil hat helps, but nobody will let me in the dim lighted basement if I wear it, and I believe it's because they know it makes me smarter and I see the flaws better!


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## sansoo22

I guess it begs the question if you're really a plane enthusiast if you don't have a few "WTF was I thinking?" planes floating around the shop or home or office.

Needless to say I have a few of those myself. Probably more of them than I care to admit….looking at you Liberty Bell plane.

The only downsides are figuring out what to do with them…and well the money you spent. Pretty sure if I had all the money back from questionable planes I could afford a shooting plane by now.


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## Ocelot

Photos of the decrepitude would provide amusement or enlightenment, defrosted.

(I have a strange super wide J. Nooitgedankt fillister plane myself.)

-Paul


----------



## drsurfrat

Yes, defrosted, that is a mish-mash. I'd worry about the totes self destructing and the frogs stressing both parts of the metal. You might be a able to remedy much of it if you look for a broken body No3 for cheap.


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## corelz125

Having a Pexto or two makes you wonder what am I going to do with this thing and how did I end up with it.


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## donwilwol

> Having a Pexto or two makes you wonder what am I going to do with this thing and how did I end up with it.
> 
> - corelz125


Especially the second one!!


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## bandit571

Random Plane photos…









and…









Circling the wagons?...

The Old Guard?


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## HokieKen

I had a few of those "questionable" planes too at one time. I've unloaded most of those Stanleys now though.

;-)


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## Mosquito

I had a bunch too, and I unloaded most of them on Kenny


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## controlfreak

Not sure if anyone has seen this but I thought it was interesting. It is a YouTube video for spray on Japanning.


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## DLK

Ah ha. So I should send my questionable planes to Mos. I wondered what to do with them.


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## Lazyman

Isn't that why we're having a swap?


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## corelz125

That's what I signed up for? Send my junk for somebody else's junk? 
So far there's been very impressive kicks for the money. How many Pexto's and Handyman's equal $40?


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## Mosquito

I had one very specific pipe dream in mind for the swap, but never came across what I wanted within the rules, so I had to go with Plan B (Or was it Plan A, if I was figuring it would be the one?).

That can be the next swap, the "from the shop swap" :-D A specific box size with tools you're not using/don't want anymore. Kinda like the lottery lol


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## controlfreak

Spending time on the swap today, wish me luck, it has been elusive so far but I think I can turn things around.


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## Lazyman

I guess I am thinking white elephant exchange. That can be the next one. Pack as many planes as will fit into a flat rate box. ;-)


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## DLK

> I had one very specific pipe dream in mind for the swap, but never came across what I wanted within the rules, so I had to go with Plan B (Or was it Plan A, if I was figuring it would be the one?).
> 
> That can be the next swap, the "from the shop swap" :-D A specific box size with tools you re not using/don t want anymore. Kinda like the lottery lol
> 
> - Mosquito


The grab bag swap, the grab box swap, or maybe rust you just don't want to be bothered with swap.

I just saw via you tube, a cooperative restoration. They started with a beat to death transitional plane. Apparently one guy got it apart, then it was mailed to someone who sandblasted it clean, another who did a braising, another did the japanning, another remade the wood body and another made a new iron. (At least I think thats how it went. I only saw the japanning. He said something like this. Maybe less mailing.oeee) So if we had enough experts and enough planes we could mail them to and fro and eventually we would all end up with a nice restoration. If your are interested in "spraying on japaning" see this video.


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## Lazyman

I'll do the take it apart part. Who should I send it to next?


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## Johnny7

> I ll do the take it apart part. Who should I send it to next?
> 
> - Lazyman


Truly, you have honored your screen name.


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## drsurfrat

In other words, how to sink $300 in labor and $50 in shipping into a plane that will never be worth no more than about $20.


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## DLK

Well there is that! LOL. Still the japanning video was informative.


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## corelz125

Shipping rates right now Mike, it would be almost as much as labor. 
Would stuffing a broken 606 into a medium flat rate box count?


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## bandit571

Have always had a standing offer: One can send me a plane, I rehab it, and send it back….as long as there is a return postage label so I can ship the plane back in the same box. All the person needs to do is provide postage both ways….nothing else will be charged.

Just my way of "Paying Forward"....


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## KentInOttawa

The trick is to be the last person in the chain.


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## 33706

Whew! Glad I didn't sign up for this rodeo, though in truth it's more of an international postage thing!

Wouldn't be fair to a fellow LJ.


----------



## sansoo22

I've been busy. We have a nice mix of Miller Falls, Marsh, Rockford, Bedrock, and last but not least Type 11 Bailey. Still have some knobs to do so good thing I have a second one of these racks.


----------



## DevinT

Tried planing cocobolo today. One area with wild grain gave me problems with tear out and card scraper was needed. Not really happy as it looks nice, feels smooth, but is nowhere near flat. Will sharpen up and give it another go to see if I can get it flat but I might just surface it


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Devin, if you're going to work with those hard woods and only hand tools you might want to start thinking about a high angle plane. Would make it easier and a better finish on crazy grain.


----------



## sansoo22

> Devin, if you're going to work with those hard woods and only hand tools you might want to start thinking about a high angle plane. Would make it easier and a better finish on crazy grain.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


Would a thicker iron such as the IBC iron/breaker combo that lets you set a 5 deg back bevel achieve the same results? That effectively puts your angle of attack at 50 deg. I believe I've seen Rob Cosman do this with some highly figured birdseye maple.

Then again I don't recall what planes Devin has other than a #8 so maybe the IBC combo won't fit.


----------



## DevinT

Looks like this plane maybe just got bumped up in priority on the things-I-need list if I am going to get the best results out of Cocobolo. Card scraper definitely tackles the wild grain without tear-out but, two things I don't like about the card scraper: 1. It hurts my hands and 2. It leaves a dull surface (smoother than sanding but not as glassy smooth as a smoothing plane).

As for which bench planes I have, only a Stanley No 8 (T11) and a Veritas No 4.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> Devin, if you're going to work with those hard woods and only hand tools you might want to start thinking about a high angle plane. Would make it easier and a better finish on crazy grain.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts
> 
> Would a thicker iron such as the IBC iron/breaker combo that lets you set a 5 deg back bevel achieve the same results? That effectively puts your angle of attack at 50 deg. I believe I ve seen Rob Cosman do this with some highly figured birdseye maple.
> 
> Then again I don t recall what planes Devin has other than a #8 so maybe the IBC combo won t fit.
> 
> - sansoo22


Absolutely. My BU planes have more than one blade and one is set as a high angle (50 or 52 degrees iirc). No special plane needed. All the magic can be done at the blade.


----------



## DevinT

The only BU plane I have is my Veritas apron plane. It seems to work well on the Cocobolo if not a bit touchy on the adjuster (the tiniest of turns equates to such a big increase in bite and the lateral lever on it is very sensitive).

I have heard LA (Low Angle) and either York (50) or High Angle (55) degree pitch would handle the reversing and rip grain areas with ease, but I still haven't made a decision on which to embrace.

From what Terry at HNT has to say on the matter, Low Angle BU doesn't work on "cranky" woods (where Cocobolo is at the low end of hardness compared to Australian timbers).

I like working exotics because they look amazing and are less popular (read: fewer supply issues). Not to mention I never did like taking the easy way out of anything. So I have been leaning High Angle, but as you pointed out there is more than one way to skin that feline.

I think James from Wood by Wright did a video on some Stanley aftermarket parts, but I only have the Veritas smoother.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I plane a lot of AZ hardwoods and they are definitely tough with crazy grain. I use a Veritas smoother as well, I just swap the blades. LV sells a high angle blade for that plane that I use when need be. Cheaper than a whole new plane.


----------



## rad457

I found the Veritas 55 deg # 4 smoother worked the best on a real nasty chunk of Walnut burl, actually better than a scrapper plane? (But then again took me a long time to figure out how best to set it up) The #4 L.A. as Devin states always struggled with grain direction change.


----------



## DevinT

> I plane a lot of AZ hardwoods and they are definitely tough with crazy grain. I use a Veritas smoother as well, I just swap the blades. LV sells a high angle blade for that plane that I use when need be. Cheaper than a whole new plane.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


I have the non-custom bevel-down smoother. I could not find any high angle options for this smoother on their website. Do you have a link to the blades you use?


----------



## DevinT

> I found the Veritas 55 deg # 4 smoother worked the best on a real nasty chunk of Walnut burl, actually better than a scrapper plane? (But then again took me a long time to figure out how best to set it up) The #4 L.A. as Devin states always struggled with grain direction change.
> 
> - Andre


Now I wish I had the "custom" BD smoother instead of regular BD smoother so I could just swap out a frog for high angle and be done with it.

Ugh.

I am loath to buy another LV plane because they stared putting torrified maple handles on everything they send to the States. Guess I could reach out to my Canadian friends again to try and acquire a Custom BD body with Bubinga handles lke I prefer and have them reship it to me States-side. That or wait for one to land on eBay.

*EDIT:* Except it looks like even eBay Veritas choices are going maple


----------



## Lazyman

Interesting that you say that the scraper is leaving a dull surface. I often find that I have to lightly sand after using a card scraper because the surface is too shiny (burnished) to accept a finish.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> I have the non-custom bevel-down smoother. I could not find any high angle options for this smoother on their website. Do you have a link to the blades you use?


If you were to put a 5-10 degree back-bevel on the factory blade for that plane (as sansoo suggested), you would have a higher angle. Be harder to sharpen, but it would be a lot less expensive than a new plane. A thicker blade will make that easier to do accurately, but my memory of that plane is that the blade is thick enough that it should work.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, for me a scraper leaves a smoother surface than any plane on hard woods. You should try a scraper holder or something like a #80 Devin. Having something that keeps a consistent angle and relieves the stress from your hands is a huge help.

I agree with Dave completely on the high angle plane or on an iron modified to act like a high angle plane. For hard woods with wild grain, you want something that approaches a scraping action. In my experience, low-angle is even worse than standard pitch on funky grain. Low angle excels at endgrain and cross-grain but any time a bailey pattern plane is causing tearout, a low angle is most likely going to tear it worse.

When I say low-angle though, it's with the assumption that you have a low angle frog with a 20-25 degree bevel on the iron. As covered above, you can simulate a higher pitched frog by using different cutting edge geometries. Of course then it becomes less effective on end/cross grain so you need a second iron. Unlike others, I'm just too lazy to swap irons out in planes. In theory it's a good plan of attack. I just won't do it because of the time to fettle. And having to remember where my extra irons are at… If I were going to do so though, it would be on my Veritas LAJ because of how quick it is to fettle after replacing the iron.

That's a really pretty chunk of Cocobolo Devin but that grain is running all over. If I were you, I'd consider using the router on it first then smoothing it with a plane or scraper after it's approaching flat.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Unlike others, I'm just too lazy to swap irons out in planes. In theory it's a good plan of attack. I just won't do it because of the time to fettle.


Oh, I'm far too lazy to swap blades out in planes and re-fettle them myself. It's part of why I've bought over a half-dozen of the Stanley Global #3s and set three of them up as special-purpose planes (that guy in Canada has six left at $37.50 each, free shipping if you want one).


----------



## HokieKen

#3 size is probably my least favorite size. It's basically the same length as #4 but with a narrower blade. Even as a scrub, I find the 1-3/4" blades too narrow. Especially when you camber it. Of course at the right price, there are very few planes that I couldn't find a purpose for if I really wanted to ;-)


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Sorry Devin, all my LV planes are BU and I have a few different blades you can throw into that thing. I don't mind swapping them out, doesn't take to much time to get those dialed in IMO.


----------



## DLK

*Devin*, you could first use a toothing plane and follow with a sharp card scraper. If the card scraper is leaving a dull finish then it needs to be sharpened with a better hook.


----------



## DevinT

OK, I will try sharpening the card scraper later.

Right now?

Round 2! Fight!

I put the deadliest edge I can muster on this thing. Let's see if this hair poppingly sharp PM-V11 blade can get the results I need.

Totally willing to go down the route of higher angles, but I just want to see if it is this simple.


----------



## DonBroussard

Devin-Like others have said, using a No. 80 is not only helpful for maintaining a consistent angle of attack, it is more comfortable and prevents all that heat generated from the friction of scraping from getting your hands uncomfortably hot.


----------



## Mosquito

I agree with Don's assessment re: #80. It's my preferred method for large areas.

About the plane secret santa, are we sending tracking to our recipients or keep it a surprise? Anyone have "issues" with a package showing up at an unknown time?


----------



## bandit571

Around here…porch pirates are a PROBLEM….AND they WILL follow Buster Brown's Truck all day long…

So…yeah, a little warning about when to be on the look out would be nice…couple of blocks away from me, they stole 4 boxes..worth $500….


----------



## rad457

#80 is made even better if you throw in a Hock iron or the Veritas version which has thicker irons! Sure wish they made a PMV-11 version.


----------



## DevinT

MUAHAHA! I feel all powerful right now


----------



## bandit571

Or…just a well sharpened SW No. 80, with the SW iron…works nicely for me..


----------



## rad457

As per Soul of a Tree, the True Japanese craftsman would sharpen his plane iron after every stroke


----------



## HokieKen

> I agree with Don s assessment re: #80. It s my preferred method for large areas.
> 
> About the plane secret santa, are we sending tracking to our recipients or keep it a surprise? Anyone have "issues" with a package showing up at an unknown time?
> 
> - Mosquito


So far everyone's kept it a secret and just let me be the middle man if they needed to check on anything. In your case, I wouldn't worry about alerting the recipient.


----------



## DevinT

Honed to 16000 and 1 degree back bevel, wispy cocobolo shavings look really nice.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Honed to 16000 and 1 degree back bevel, wispy cocobolo shavings look really nice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - DevinT


That looks pretty darned good to me. Are you using Rob Cosman's 32 seconds to sharp technique?


----------



## controlfreak

> Around here…porch pirates are a PROBLEM….AND they WILL follow Buster Brown s Truck all day long…
> 
> So…yeah, a little warning about when to be on the look out would be nice…couple of blocks away from me, they stole 4 boxes..worth $500….
> 
> - bandit571


Great, I have two laptops coming today.


----------



## DevinT

I do everything he does but I have also added some steps, modified some, and I used a homing guide instead of trying to hit the angle by hand - too many inconsistencies in doing it by hand.

I mirror polish the secondary bevel, no tertiary, use charlesworth back bevel, and …

I nick the corners in a very specific and repeatable way.

The charlesworth back bevel is done by using a small metal rule to give the blade a 1-degree lift when honing the back …

Not unlike that approach, I use the steel rule to give a small lift to one side, then the other, to do a repeatable 1-degree nick on each corner.

This eliminates tracks in my experience.

I am eliminating the tertiary bevel also because it doesn't add much in my experience but makes it harder to hone - instead I am making the secondary bevel about 1/8" so I can easily find it for re-honing


----------



## rad457

I do a hollow grind for the primary bevel, makes hand sharpening almost fool proof No time for all dat udder stuff?


----------



## Mosquito

I don't get hung up on what exact angle my bevels are at; as long as they're under 45 degrees I don't really care lol I just don't want to take the time to set up a jig every time I go to sharpen (plus, my affinity for combination planes makes that half useless anyway)


----------



## rad457

Come to think about it the #46 blades didn't get a hollow grind Nor the 1/16" detail chisel!


----------



## sansoo22

Hollow grind 25 ish primary, 30 deg secondary up to 8k, ruler trick back bevel, then finish up on the buffer at 12k green compound. After that I can shave wood or cats.

I can usually re-hone at the buffer once or twice before going back to the stones.

For combination irons I usually just do the back. If I can feel a burr I will use a strop and/or some profile sanding blocks with whatever high grit sandpaper I have on hand to remove the burr. I'm not great at sharpening combination irons just yet though.


----------



## bandit571

One single bevel, no back bevel….OEM irons….I go up to 2500 grit, then strop….have also started with the Unicorn…WHEN the grinder is out on the bench… Green compound for the cloth wheel…

KISS….and back to work.

BTW: I have way too many Block Planes….(15!!!!) not really looking for any more…..


----------



## HokieKen

I have the perfect sharpening process. My way is the only way. The methods and equipment I use are the only proper methods and equipment. My way is better than your way and your way is wrong. If you use a honing guide you are a simpleton. If you don't, you're a buffoon.

There's ^ my summary of 90% of the sharpening discussions I've read on WW forums ;-)


----------



## DevinT

Machined up real nice using the router sled to make the other side parallel to the reference side I planed flat this morning.

Cocobolo is really pretty. The surfacing went really really well. A little sandpaper or light scraping and this side is readying to go!

Almost ready to CNC the pieces for the Christmas gift I am making.


----------



## Ocelot

You are wrong, Kenny!


----------



## HokieKen

Very nice Devin! Hopefully you're wearing a respirator when making airborne dust? Cocobolo is a Rosewood and a known skin and respiratory sensitizer. Just a PSA


----------



## Ocelot

Devin has bravely and selflessly volunteered to be our Cocobolo alergy tester today.

All the Coco I have is about 125lb - $100 worth - of scrap sold as "misc cocobolo". Lots of cracks, some rot, some wane and sapwod, but there are pleny of enough pieces to make some little things but I've been afraid of it.

I tried to plane one piece and it was like planing a rock. Devin's results look outstanding to me.


----------



## HokieKen

I have skin reaction to Bolivian and East Indian Rosewoods when I create fine dust like when turning or sanding. So far, I haven't had any reactions to Cocobolo thankfully. But, I didn't react to other Rosewoods a couple of years ago so who knows. I still wear a respirator anytime I sand or turn any exotics though. Just to be on the safe side.


----------



## sansoo22

> I have the perfect sharpening process. My way is the only way. The methods and equipment I use are the only proper methods and equipment. My way is better than your way and your way is wrong. If you use a honing guide you are a simpleton. If you don t, you re a buffoon.
> 
> - HokieKen


This is why this forum is the ONLY place I will ever discuss sharpening. Here it feels more like "this is how i do things…pick and choose if any of it works for you"...or at least that's how I try to interpret what I read and write here regarding sharpening.

Other forums I barely even discuss edged tools anymore. Been told several times I don't know how to get my tools sharp enough.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree Sansoo. And actually, there are only a couple of threads on this forum that I will opine on the matter when it's relevant. If there's a thread about sharpening posted, I may or may not post an opinion depending on the specific question. And if I do post, I won't go back later to see if I got flamed or not ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

I agree with both sansoo, and Kenny's caveats to it lol


----------



## Notw

> I have skin reaction to Bolivian and East Indian Rosewoods when I create fine dust like when turning or sanding. So far, I haven t had any reactions to Cocobolo thankfully. But, I didn t react to other Rosewoods a couple of years ago so who knows. I still wear a respirator anytime I sand or turn any exotics though. Just to be on the safe side.
> 
> - HokieKen


This is how I got into replacing all my handles and knobs with walnut, Rosewoods make me itch so I don't mess with repairing them. After I changed the first couple to Walnut I went for it with all the others.


----------



## adot45

> This is how I got into replacing all my handles and knobs with walnut, Rosewoods make me itch so I don t mess with repairing them. After I changed the first couple to Walnut I went for it with all the others.
> 
> - Notw


Sounds like you have some sweet looking tools Notw


----------



## sansoo22

No reaction to rosewood thankfully but osage orange makes me break out in hives. Osage orange or as well call it hedge…grows likes weeds in my area and is a nice dense wood for using as shoes for the bottoms of 81s, 12-1/2s, or maybe as a fence extension attached to a #386. I even thought about trying to use some for the body of a transitional because of its 2600 janka rating but after resoling my 81 with it and itching for a day and half I'm done with that species.


----------



## bandit571

IF you thinking a sharpening thread is bad here….go over to SMC, sometime….

They even have a war going on about which work bench style to have…...including what vises to use and where they need to be…..

Hmmm…ok, about to meander to the shop, and remove all them clamps…and see how much plane work I'll need to do…BEFORE sawing the lid off….


----------



## Mosquito

That is why I don't go to SMC… (well, that and having been kicked off lol)


----------



## Notw

Didn't SMC go pay per view a while back? are they still that way?


----------



## HokieKen

I don't frequent any WW forums besides this one. And I'll pay to join one when I get a newspaper subscription ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

I keep getting kicked off SMC too but only because they must cancel an account when you don't use often enough. I think I have signed up with the same ID 3 times now. Coincidentally, I tried to sign on to see an image today and yup, we don't recognize your user ID. Not worth the trouble to set it up again. Why the heck do they hide images. Makes no sense to me.


----------



## Johnny7

> I keep getting kicked off SMC too but only because they must cancel an account when you don t use often enough. I think I have signed up with the same ID 3 times now. Coincidentally, I tried to sign on to see an image today and yup, we don t recognize your user ID. Not worth the trouble to set it up again. Why the heck do they hide images. Makes no sense to me.
> 
> - Lazyman


Picture viewing privileges are among the "perks" reserved to those suckers who pay to be "contributors" rather than "members.


----------



## KentInOttawa

FWIW, sometimes I sharpen my blades well and sometimes I don't. I'm still working on improving it ;-)

I like Kenny's observation about general sharpening "discussions".


----------



## bandit571

It costs a whopping $6 per year…to be a "Contributor"....meh..


----------



## DevinT

When I was hand planing the Cocobolo, I used a respirator (and my normal vision glasses) but no gloves. That was fine. Handling the shavings was also fine. Standing in the room with all the shavings was fine. No problems whatsoever.

Then I surfaced it with my router sled.

With full PPE. Respirator, gloves, safety goggles over my vision glasses, leather apron, long sleeves. The whole nine yards.

and then …

When I was cleaning up, I did two things that were wrong …

1. I took off my safety goggles when I was dusting up

2. When I was using a putty knife to scoop the sawdust into a ziplock baggy (never know when I might need to mix some of it with glue to fill a crack or something), I-without gloves-tamped down the sawdust with my fingers before closing the bag.

The tips of my fingers on the hand that I used to tamp down the sawdust in the baggy are numb.

My eyes started to sting and water the moment a faint whiff of dust hit them when I was using a hand brush to sweep up the dust.

I basically only had incidental (and avoidable) brief contact with the dust, and I am fascinated by the effects.

My face actually feels the same as though I ate a hot pepper. I am sweating as I type this. It's quite interesting.

I can't say that there is any pain involved (yet), and I am wondering if on cold nights one might just want to take a bit of Cocobolo and throw it in the air like fairy dust. Would keep you warm on a cold night, LoL! No hives, but I didn't walk away unscathed.

Next time I have to surface the stuff, I will add these precautions:

1. Don't take off PPE until the shop is entirely clean

2. Change clothes after being around the dust

The shavings don't seem to bother me in even the slightest. Planing the stuff is actually quite enjoyable (when the plane is sharp enough)


----------



## HokieKen

Well from personal experience, I can give you another rule for your list Devin: *Wash your hands thoroughly before you pee when you work with it.*

I have had my eyes swell pretty badly once too. Hopefully yours won't do the same. Itchy red rash is the norm for me.


----------



## rad457

Saw rule applies when cutting up hot peppers for salsa. wash before an after!
Funny thing about sharpening is think I have tried most methods but seem to return to the same one?


----------



## DevinT

My spouse is 100% immune to poison ivy/oak (and we suspect sumac, but we've not tested this), and has been handling the Cocobolo without incident.

Unfortunately, we suspect some of the oils might have transferred to our son in contact. 50/50 jury is out because he can't speak, but he seams irritated by something and has exhibited flushness in the cheeks. Poor guy.

I told the spouse they have to help in the shop now. LoL


----------



## Lazyman

You know, I don't think I need to find out if I am affected by cocobolo. I am immune to poison ivy (knock on wood) but I have known a few people that were also immune but started getting a reaction to it later in life.

Stupid spell check wants to change cocobolo to COBOL.


----------



## DevinT

LoL @ Cocobolo → COBOL … o

;D


----------



## bandit571

Another tip, learned the hard way…..weedeater along the back fence..stopped to extend the string a bit…later, had to go Pee….was in a bit of a rush…..Poison Oak does leave some bad welts, doesn't it….


----------



## bandit571

Random plane picture for today..









For that flat bottom look..and a flat top…









WR No. 62..


----------



## HokieKen

I could roll around naked in poison ivy and not get so much as a pimple. (Verified on a spring break camping trip my senior year of highschool. Mushrooms were involved. Also never attempt to mount a wild horse in the mountains during a thunderstorm…) Then in 2008 at the age of 33 I spent a Saturday weeding all of our flowerbeds and thinning some brush in the woods behind our house. I woke up Sunday swollen and itchy. It's been all downhill since then. And it gets worse every time I'm exposed. Getting older sucks…

On the other hand, I had a boss several years back whose sister had inhaled poison ivy when they were clearing some property and burning the brush. And ever since (20+ years at that time) she had chronically inflamed lungs and respiratory tract. And there was little hope for improvement and not much they could really do to even ease the discomfort. So in contrast, I can deal with external exposures without much complaint…


----------



## DevinT

Round 4, here we go!










Oh, and update, spouse now starting to show signs of irritation. So, even if you are immune (or were immune) to poison ivy, it seems that Cocobolo can still get you.


----------



## ac0rn

Never had poison Ivy, but that changed when I was 37, not fun. MY Sonia turns into the Michelin Tire lady if she goes near the stuff.


----------



## DevinT

I don't recall anything being as painful as playing by the side of the road and falling into a ditch, rolling down a hill of stingy nettles. So much worse than poison ivy/oak in my opinion.


----------



## corelz125

So Kenny what are you trying to say about the time you went to go pee and didn't wash the cocobolo off your hands? I hate sharpening that's why I use the worksharp change a few glass wheels shove the iron in and it's all over with.


----------



## DLK

What is the absolute worse Handplane? What is the "lump of coal" of handplanes?


----------



## RWE

Par Plus


----------



## bigblockyeti

> Well from personal experience, I can give you another rule for your list Devin: *Wash your hands thoroughly before you pee when you work with it.*
> 
> I have had my eyes swell pretty badly once too. Hopefully yours won't do the same. Itchy red rash is the norm for me.
> 
> - HokieKen


Have you experienced unintentional swelling?


----------



## HokieKen

LOL Yeti. If that were the problem, I'd have already retired from my Rosewood Boxer & Briefs venture ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

> What is the absolute worse Handplane? What is the "lump of coal" of handplanes?
> 
> - Combo Prof


The little block planes that use disposable utilty blade type inserts are pretty bad.


----------



## HokieKen

> So Kenny what are you trying to say about the time you went to go pee and didn t wash the cocobolo off your hands? I hate sharpening that s why I use the worksharp change a few glass wheels shove the iron in and it s all over with.
> 
> - corelz125


Let's just say when the itching gets that bad, the Worksharp with a scotchbrite wheel isn't exempt from consideration.


----------



## DLK

Just wondering what my "secret santa plane" will be. I guess there are 19 more days left, but I am feeling neglected. 
No worries I'll be patient.


----------



## HokieKen

There's about half of the participants still waiting Don ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

I almost sent this one to my swap victim as a joke but decided that would be just mean. Definitely in the running for worst plane. Not sure it would even raise to the level of lump of coal.










When I was in college, I spent a summer session at what we called Forestry Field Camp. One of the guys got a really bad case of poison ivy. I've never seen such as bad case of it. We found him one night in the kitchen scouring his festering rash with Comet. When someone asked what he was doing, he said the burning was better than the itching.


----------



## DLK

> There's about half of the participants still waiting Don ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Good to know. There was flurry of planes received and then silence. Got me worried.


----------



## corelz125

There's a lot of very bad block planes out there. The pextos that stamped steel frog is a killer. They have a nice solid base on them.


----------



## DanKrager

I'm not yet sensitive to poison ivy (nor do I seek exposure) and I don't work with exotics. It is my understanding that if one starts out immune to something, there seems to be an allotted number of exposures before a reaction begins to be noticeable. Different for different people, but no one (that I know of) seems to escape reactions after many exposures. It seems to be the opposite of building up one's immunity to disease by exposure.

FYI and off topic, for every toxic plant that grows in the midwest, there is an antidote plant growing nearby. For example, where poison ivy grows you will notice jewelweed nearby. You have about 12 minutes to wash off the poison ivy resin (with Dawn type soap) or treat it with a mash of jewelweed. Even if you are fairly sensitive like my wife (who walks past it 3' away or touches my exposed clothing and reacts) these will minimize your reaction.

DanK


----------



## defrosted

worst? maybe that thing harbor freight sells…

The comment about bad welts when ignoring the before and after rule was immediately followed by a picture that I had to think twice about scrolling down to….

There is a thread going on about what plane to use to flatten a 2×4 topped workbench, discussing how to do the jacking and smoothing with one plane swapping between 2 blades and such. I think most of us have run into marginal or better 4s and 5s in the under $10 range that have been easy to set up for the scrub, fore and jack stages. I have acquired sizes 2 thru 6 in at least that level of quality for $6 or under. (Yes the 2 is a union, not a Bailey. and the 4 is a handyman…) Is there anyone here that does not have a semi-expendable plane to abuse with bulk removal of pine?


----------



## rad457

My first block plane, Wind Rivers 60 1/2! Spent way too many hours attempting to get mouth aligned before she went into a trash can Had a Craftsman #4 for awhile, but was quickly replaced with a Handyman


----------



## DevinT

The Shaper worked a treat on the Cocobolo. It was sure slow going though. Took 7 passes to get down to a thin skin on 3/4" thick stock using 1/4" diameter cutter, then a final pass using 1/8" diameter compression bit cutting through the 1/32" thin skin and 0.01" offset off.

Had to go slow and let the router guide me as to how hard I could push it and had to really ease into those fillets when stepping down from 1/4" dia. to 1/8".

No bits were broken, but I am exhausted. My heart was pounding the whole time as it requires constant attention (unlike softer woods where I tend to zone out). Several times during the cut I had to remind myself to breath, calm down, feel the cut, back off on speed, et cetera. Certainly not a boring wood to work.

Though, after getting the pieces cut, I am impressed by the woods' tone generating qualities. Didn't know it was a tone wood when I selected it.


----------



## DevinT

Oh, one fun fact, I blew the circuit breaker 4 times and the power went out on me mid-cut each time. Doesn't effect me though, I just wait for the bit to stop spinning, lift it out of the cut, and restore power. Fun fact: the Origin will not power on the spindle unless the power switch is engaged after the OS is booted. So after a power outage, even if the spindle is in ON, the OS boots, ignores the ON state, and keeps the spindle off. To restore power to the spindle you have to flip it off and back on again. Smart, huh? Though doesn't hurt to flip the spindle off before restoring power.


----------



## RichT

> The Shaper worked a treat on the Cocobolo.
> 
> - DevinT


Be careful. KellyCrafts told me that calling it The Shaper is wrong (hint: it's called The Origin). Kinda funny since I've been on calls with the Shaper Tools team who also called it The Shaper.

Go figure.


----------



## ac0rn

There is nothing fun about tripping breakers. What else is on the breaker in use? What size breaker?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

***Edited to let Rich win this one and feel better about himself. I don't need to participate in things like that to feel better, my life is awesome.


----------



## rad457

Some how the topic of "Hand Planes" is getting real Fuzzy? Either tell us all the "Best" way to sharpen a 
"Hand plane"or keep your off topic opinions to yourself's


----------



## DevinT

> There is nothing fun about tripping breakers. What else is on the breaker in use? What size breaker?
> 
> - Jeff


Shop vac and Shaper Origin, and a few other low voltage appliances on the same circuit because while I suspect there may be another NEMA outlet somewhere in this garage, the only ones I have found are by the water heater and by the garage door opener (beside the twist lock outlet for the electric dryer). If there is another outlet, I suspect I will find it when I build shelves to put our storage up by the ceiling. Could be another outlet hiding behind a stack of boxes or containers.


----------



## bandit571

> Some how the topic of "Hand Planes" is getting real Fuzzy? Either tell us all the "Best" way to sharpen a
> "Hand plane"or keep your off topic opinions to yourself s
> 
> - Andre


Maybe something like this..?









Or….









Now..is this a plane?









Hmmm…









Because I know this one is…..


----------



## controlfreak

I am always tempted to say "the only proper way to sharpen is on an inverted belt sander" just to get a good dumpster fire going.


----------



## HokieKen

You don't invert it CF. You hang it from the ceiling and lay on the bench under it. Dang newbs.


----------



## controlfreak

You're holding it wrong!


----------



## defrosted

So, for you Millers Falls guys, what value would you place on a red allover Sears 9" made by MF with the standard very square and solid body (they just feel a hair more substantial than Stanleys and I don't know why) and the MF lateral with the folded down side flap, and the Sears name and size number stamped on the lower left side but missing a few niceties like a victor or defiant does for Stanley:
No joint in the lever cap
No spring flap under the lever cap so levering moves the blade
No frog adjustment hardware or holes
Solid steel adjuster nut with no hollow, just not brass.
Red frog. and wood. and japanning. and lever cap…

I just can not pull the trigger on it for $15 local, even though very little rust - the metal parts look metallic and not rusty brown like this one


----------



## defrosted

And for the belt sander you have to upgrade the bearings for your sharpening jig so they don't smoke before the blade does. Otherwise using the smoke detector to tell you when you are done sharpening does not give an accurate reading….


----------



## bandit571

Those were made just like the V-Line planes in the 1950s….and made to what the retailer wanted as to "colour scheme". Flat sided rear handle, so the retailer's name could be printed on the sides…

Was the Millers Falls version of the Handyman line by Stanley…..

Plus..IF you do strip off all that thick red paint….you'll find M-F did NOT polish things up…left things quite rough.

I'd pass too…


----------



## Ocelot

> [...]
> Oh, and update, spouse now starting to show signs of irritation. [...]
> 
> - DevinT


Y'all been married awhile. Don't worry. It's normal.


----------



## Mosquito

> [...]
> Oh, and update, spouse now starting to show signs of irritation. [...]
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> 
> 
> Y all been married awhile. Don t worry. It s normal.
> 
> - Ocelot
Click to expand...

This is WHY I have a shop, not just because :-D


----------



## Lazyman

Irritation-annoyance, potato - poe-tot-toe


----------



## Ocelot

Devin,

I do appreciate the honest reports on the effects of Cocobolo. I'm not sure I won't be thinking of swapping my stash for something less threatening. I don't have the patience for all the PPE, probably.

I'm sorry for any suffering - especially for the little guy.

-Paul


----------



## MikeB_UK

Weirdest selling point ever

Little 9 inch spoke shave that comes with 8 irons so you don't need to sharpen.
None of the irons were sharp when they turned up, so just a weird selling point.

£13 including delivery, wasn't expecting much - I only wanted the irons to have a go at making some rounding planes.

Actually works quite well when you sharpen up an iron.


----------



## rad457

Thanks Bandit! nothing like a little Plane Porn to start the Day


----------



## sansoo22

Anyone else have enough plane parts on hand they have to come up with a way to organize it all? I need some ideas on how to better store the extra parts. Right now I have them all in 2 small drawers. Handles and hardware in one with breakers, lever caps, irons, and misc in the other.


----------



## controlfreak

It sounds like, I know I have one of those, but where did I put it, moments.


----------



## HokieKen

> So, for you Millers Falls guys, what value would you place on a red allover Sears 9" made by MF with the standard very square and solid body (they just feel a hair more substantial than Stanleys and I don t know why) and the MF lateral with the folded down side flap, and the Sears name and size number stamped on the lower left side but missing a few niceties like a victor or defiant does for Stanley:
> No joint in the lever cap
> No spring flap under the lever cap so levering moves the blade
> No frog adjustment hardware or holes
> Solid steel adjuster nut with no hollow, just not brass.
> Red frog. and wood. and japanning. and lever cap…
> 
> I just can not pull the trigger on it for $15 local, even though very little rust - the metal parts look metallic and not rusty brown like this one
> 
> - defrosted


Hard pass for me. Like bandit said, they left those rough. Instead of machining, most of it was hand ground on a disc sander. The BB line of Craftsman planes made by Millers Falls are good users. Most anything with a solid depth adjuster nut is a nothankyee from me.


----------



## HokieKen

> Anyone else have enough plane parts on hand they have to come up with a way to organize it all? I need some ideas on how to better store the extra parts. Right now I have them all in 2 small drawers. Handles and hardware in one with breakers, lever caps, irons, and misc in the other.
> 
> - sansoo22


My part storage is really fancy. A large flat rate box from the post office


----------



## Notw

is that corrugated cardboard Ken????

Mine are in a drawer, then some in another drawer, then some more in a different drawer


----------



## Ocelot

... on the floor under the bench.

(I shouldn't have said that. Most of them are somewhere else, but I'm not sure where.)


----------



## drsurfrat

I found partition boxes from HD that suit me. The partitions can be modified, and fit most parts for most planes (up to partial assemblies). And full, they are not too heavy to stack on my one shelves.


----------



## DevinT

Hmmm, nice idea drsurfrat!


----------



## bandit571

Sitting in a small pile, on the top shelf of the computer desk's hutch..between two lamps….


----------



## Lazyman

Today's hand plane fun









Still need to attach 2 or 3 more boards but wanted to play with planes today.


----------



## controlfreak

It was exactly what you are doing there Nathan that got me hooked on hand planes.


----------



## corelz125

Those v line MF kind of suck to. Can put them in the handy man category. 
Spare parts I have in zip lock bags, tupper were containers, padded envelopes from Amazon, then inside a storage container.


----------



## ac0rn

Sansoo, I think you can organize what I have at your place, unless someone else has a need. That way they may get used, and I gain space.
Some are OEM, and others are obviously not. One of the totes still has a Stanley label. Some of the totes and knobs are plastic.


----------



## bandit571

Needed a hole drilled, tonight…got out the old cordless..









And a #9 bit..drilled from both sides..









Odd shaped board?









Fitted to hold the Craftsman 3720/Sargent 79….and..









And it's parts…then close the lid on Box #2..









Waiting with Box #1 for a finish…









Had to level the front of #2…









Yes, that IS a Type 4, No. 9 Millers Falls, doing what it does best…


----------



## DevinT

I did something crazy and it turned out amazing.

So, I was sanding the Cocobolo, thinking to myself, wow, this stuff is really hard. In fact, it's almost as hard as plexiglass. Hmm, I wonder, what would happen if I treated this wood as though I was polishing plexi up to a shine.

60, 150, 220, 320, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 2000, 3000 grit, then polishing compound.

Wow! Who knew wood could polish to a high shine like this?


----------



## DevinT

Was making a sign and botched it by stupidly mounting the magnets backwards.

Then stupidly thought, I'll just bore through the magnets and put in new ones. How hard could they be?

Dawned every piece of PPE I have and geared up for war.

Mounted my steel boring bit in the Shaper Origin, aligned everything, set plunge rate to 0.56 ipm and a depth of cut of 0.001"

Contact!

Sparks!

Hmm, maybe once we get through the outer casing it will get easier.

Kept stepping up 0.001" at a time. Things going fine. Decided at 0.01" to jump to 0.02"

Loads of bright yellow sparks.

This does not seem wise.

I decide to call it a no-go before I punch through the casing and witness the magnet explode angrily, taking out my Origin and possibly me in the process.

I have heard that magnets like to explode.

I take a break. Decide I will just cut around the magnets to remove them.


----------



## Lazyman

If they are neodymium magnets they are very brittle and can usually be broken by just using a punch or old screwdriver with a hammer. The shiny (nickel?) outer casing is usually what holds them together. I have had them break by just letting them slam into each other too hard. Once you get them to break, you can probably pry them out. If you glued them in, a little of the appropriate solvent might help too.


----------



## DevinT

3mm x 6 mm neodymium. Tried a punch, just made a mark. Super tough. Used steel reinforced epoxy.


----------



## Lazyman

Might have to really wail on it. Heat may loosen the epoxy enough to pry it out?


----------



## DevinT

I am afraid of damaging the Teak wood which proved to be quite temperamental. Out of curiosity how would you apply the heat and how much? Heat gun? Soldering iron?

I went back into Inkscape and just modified the border and will grid the piece back into Shaper Origin and just trace the new frame to route out the old magnets then bore new holes in the new frame.

When I mount the new magnets I will probably mark the side that gets mounted face down to make sure I don't make the same mistake.


----------



## Lazyman

Heat gut or even a blow dryer. Might not work but I would try it at least. Would it be possible to drill a small hole next to the magnet so that you can get a nail or other small spike under it to pry it out?


----------



## Johnny7

> I did something crazy and it turned out amazing.
> 
> Wow! Who knew wood could polish to a high shine like this?
> 
> - DevinT


If you like shiny wood, you may want to investigate polissoirs


----------



## rad457

Hey Bandit, can we get some more "plane" Pic's ?


----------



## rad457

Needed to check, see if I was on the right thread


----------



## bandit571

Andre's favourite?










or… Kenny's?









that better?


----------



## HokieKen

Most magnets of the neodymium or rare earth type are exceptionally hard Devin. Like Nathan said, they're very brittle too. If you've epoxied them in though it would be hard to break them out. You could try heating them to flow the epoxy by putting a soldering iron on them to avoid scorching the wood. But, if milling them out is an option, it's probably your best bet.


----------



## DevinT

There were more sparks than I was comfortable with trying to end mill them out. Decided I would just cut them out for three reasons. No sparks, no chance of flying hard debris, and the new design actually works better. I should have designed it this way in the start (explanation and pictures to be posted when I finish this Christmas gift)


----------



## HokieKen

A diamond tipped end mill would probably work too Devin. But it would still be messy and you'd have small, hard, magnetic particles flying around…


----------



## DevinT

... embedding themselves into places likely never to be clean again. I mean, cutting ferrous metal is one thing (compressed air blast can knock the chips out), but the thought of having tiny magnet chips stuck inside scares the crap out of me

*EDIT:* just realized cutting the magnets out will leave me with cute fridge magnets

*EDIT EDIT:* and I can either include those magnets with the Christmas gift or keep them for myself


----------



## HokieKen

I fully agree, I wouldn't do it either.


----------



## DevinT

On the topic of hand planes, lest someone be confused as to which thread they are on; if you had $1k to buy any plane, what would it be? One rule: you have to use it. No shelf queens. I need something to pine over and right now the leaders of the pack are: (1) HNT Gordon, (2) Lie-Nielsen


----------



## bandit571

Would that result in a Magnetic Personality?

IF it is just embedded in wood, drill around it with a plug cutter, pop it out, and plug the hole…


----------



## Ocelot

I'm wondering if you could just put it in the oven at 150 F with the magnet facing down and if it will fall out when the epoxiy get's soft.

Since this is HPOYD, I can say that removing the magnet with a hand plane will likely destroy your project, but you knew that. All the same for the sake of hand plane discussion I felt it was the right thing to say.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I've bought four Lie-Nielsen planes. And only one HNT Gordon spokeshave, but that's mostly down to the difference in shipping costs, one from Maine (where I go to visit friends sometimes) and the other from the antipodes, where I would like to go visit friends, but would probably never return from, having gotten eaten by a wombat or drowned in a vat of beer.


----------



## DevinT

Having gained some experience with Cocobolo and really liking it, I am digging the fact that I can get Cocobolo totes/knobs on the Lie-Nielsen planes. The appeal of HNT Gordon for me is the thicker blades, 55 degree bed angle, the fact it is made out of Gidgee (harder than Cocobolo), and I have an option to select an HSS blade (which would make planing cranky timbers a snap).

I mean, I love me some Veritas planes (I have 3), but I just don't like torrified maple, the blades are thinner (than HNT), and I think I want to try something else higher quality.


----------



## Notw

So does the $1k have to be used all on one plane?


----------



## Ocelot

I read an article a couple years ago by THE MAN at HNT Gordon, who I suppose now must have been Mr. Gordon - about spokeshaves and why his look the way they do. It was the most useful thing I have read about spokeshaves and clearly was written by a person who understands what he is doing - that is - making toosl that work rather than just look nice.

In short, I learned why people have so much trouble with using round-bottom shaves and what you have to do to master them.

So I am intrigued by his tools just based on that.


----------



## DevinT

> So does the $1k have to be used all on one plane?
> 
> - Notw


One plane, cap is $1k

*EDIT:* And the closer to the cap, the more you have to be seen using it


----------



## DevinT

> I read an article a couple years ago by THE MAN at HNT Gordon, who I suppose now must have been Mr. Gordon - about spokeshaves and why his look the way they do. It was the most useful thing I have read about spokeshaves and clearly was written by a person who understands what he is doing - that is - making toosl that work rather than just look nice.
> 
> In short, I learned why people have so much trouble with using round-bottom shaves and what you have to do to master them.
> 
> So I am intrigued by his tools just based on that.
> 
> - Ocelot


I haven't seen that video, I will look for it.

On the topic of spokeshaves and tools that work…

I know LV sells "chair devils" and convex spokeshaves both able to make a chair seat that has a dished out section for your rear end, but …

I have been reading about travishers. They are like spokeshaves but the handles are curved to keep your knuckles from getting in the way. Seems very practical.

There are a couple on eBay but at the prices they are asking they would be more collector items than users - and I have a strict policy against collecting except when the connection is personal.


----------



## Ocelot

Chair devils are for scraping the spindles. I just bought one chair devil blade (of the radiius I wanted) and put in in the vice to pull spindles through. (actually was a hammer handle, not a spindle, so it was the 1 1/4" one) Cheap and probably less effective, but the actual tools were out of stock and while the blades were not.


----------



## DevinT

Oh, thanks! Didn't know!


----------



## Notw

Hmmm $1k cap, I could put a down payment on a Stanley No. 1


----------



## rad457

Thanks Bandit Still hoping to to find that (affordable)#62 at a Flea market, the new SW #62 works okay but for some reason the Old stuff jus feels better!


----------



## Notw

Here you go Andre a shot under my bench, and let me know if you know how to remove the front knob off a SW #62, the knob and tote are not the correct color, ALL must be Walnut, might need a bigger bench….


----------



## HokieKen

A grand will get me one of JayT's S8 smoothers


----------



## Ocelot

Alternatively M. S. Bickford Starter Set A.


----------



## ac0rn

For myself there isn't a tool made that I would consider purchasing for $1000. The needs are greater elsewhere.


----------



## Ocelot

This is "of your dreams", Jeff.

I wouldn't either, even if I had a few millions to spare.


----------



## DevinT

Right, the idea is "of your dreams" right now. I wanted to see what others could dream up with the idea of free money with the stipulation that it has to be spent on a single hand plane.

Think Brewster's Millions, but on a smaller scale.


----------



## sansoo22

If I'm lucky enough to find one in the wild a Stanley #51 and #52 shooting board combo. Don't think a grand will get me one at auction though.


----------



## Mosquito

for only $1k?


----------



## DevinT

> Alternatively M. S. Bickford Starter Set A.
> 
> - Ocelot


Very interesting. I had not considered sets!

Hmmm, wonder what makes that set worth $1k versus cobbling a vintage set together from eBay. These aren't exactly very popular planes, and I see vintage ones go for pretty low prices on eBay-albeit their blades are likely to not be modern alloys or be in great condition.


----------



## DevinT

> If I m lucky enough to find one in the wild a Stanley #51 and #52 shooting board combo. Don t think a grand will get me one at auction though.
> 
> - sansoo22


Oh my, those *are* sexy. Also reminds me of the Stanley 10 1/4 with its tilting handle feature (which I think would also be a nice find).


----------



## DevinT

> A grand will get me one of JayT s S8 smoothers
> 
> - HokieKen


Very interesting.


----------



## HokieKen

Langdon Miter Planer would be on my "throw some money at it" list too:


----------



## DevinT

> Langdon Miter Planer would be on my "throw some money at it" list too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


Ooooo, that's an interesting beast. That will surely give me some welcomed mental diversions (translation: day dreams)


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny has the right idea. 
Bidirectional beats the 51 to my mind. Mind you I do have a LN51!


----------



## HokieKen

Either TOF or Smitty has one. Can't recall which right now. I'm angling to get them both to adopt me though so I can get in the will. Both have many things I covet ;-)


----------



## rad457

> Langdon Miter Planer would be on my "throw some money at it" list too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


? gee I wonder where Lee Valley/Veritas got their ideas for there version?


----------



## MikeB_UK

If you up it by a factor of 10 I'd be tempted for a Holtey


----------



## DevinT

But if you had a Holtey, would you use it?


----------



## DavePolaschek

I have a LN51, too. Pairs nicely with the Veritas shooting board.


----------



## Mosquito

I would rather a S&S K18, and you better believe I'd use it if I could afford it


----------



## HokieKen

That was my first instinct Mos. But you can't get a K5 for double the limit ;-)


----------



## Ocelot

> Alternatively M. S. Bickford Starter Set A.
> 
> - Ocelot
> 
> Very interesting. I had not considered sets!
> 
> Hmmm, wonder what makes that set worth $1k versus cobbling a vintage set together from eBay. These aren t exactly very popular planes, and I see vintage ones go for pretty low prices on eBay-albeit their blades are likely to not be modern alloys or be in great condition.
> 
> - DevinT


Did you look at them?

5 planes made to order from the same board, with Lie Neilsen blades, sharp, readty to go, with perfectly fitted wedges (I know, you won't have a plane wihtout an adjuster) They are *only* $200/ea. If you like them, you can order a full set and he'll give you credit for the ones you already have (but then they won't all be made from the same board).

No, I'm not going to order any, but I like them.

-Paul


----------



## bandit571

Need to haul this down to the shop…might have a spot for it to land on…(plane porn?)









It does have sole..









Gearing up to "Ramming Speed!" 









Starboard side view?









And…the back porch….Stanley No. 5-1/2, Type 19? Yes, those handles came from the factory painted black…by the time I got the plane, most had flaked off…thought it would look better, that way….

Have 2 cases to try to get a stain on, today..


----------



## corelz125

I'll take a Edward Preston router plane for the money. Then again there's some one in here who has Prestons laying around like block planes.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> But if you had a Holtey, would you use it?
> 
> - DevinT


Hell yeah, whole point of a tool is to use it - only reason I don't use something is if I have something that works better (I may draw the line at an ultimatum brace though .


----------



## DevinT

What is an ultimatum brace?


----------



## Johnny7

> What is an ultimatum brace?
> 
> - DevinT


https://www.jimbodetools.com/products/magnificent-solid-boxwood-marples-ultimatum-brace-excelsior-91212

and here's a beauty in ebony:

https://www.jimbodetools.com/products/lovely-marples-ebony-and-brass-ultimatum-brace-79782


----------



## DLK

With a spare $1,000 I'd buy a Bill Carter miter plane.


----------



## bandit571

I'd just settle for $1000 in lumber…think I'm already pretty well set as to planes I use…


----------



## defrosted

I am standing right over there forming 1/4" Plexiglas into templates for my daughter to run her rotary cutter around and cut out cloth to sew up into bowl cozies. Not my thing, bowl cozies, but she likes them and has sold a few.

So there I am rough cutting 1/4" plexi with a hand saw and then planing it down to spec with my type 18/19 SB #7 (made on a Thursday in 1948 from parts available I think). Held upside down with the knob right here on my overly large belly, convenient only for this moment… and running the plexi down the mostly stationary plane with my remaining free hand to get the correct dimensions and then leaning it this way and that to chamfer the edges (there, I added chamfer to my dictionary so I got rid of at least 1 red underline). A shorter plane simply did not work in this configuration. Clamping a 7 or 8 upside down in the bench vice might have made more sense, but this way I could stand up and look down the edge on each pass. And the shorter planes simply did not have long enough infeed and outfeed tables.

I had originally clamped the thick plexi and moved various planes more normallishly but this way of holding it gave me quite a bit of control and significant time savings. I even edged and chamfered some scraps and started using them as clamping pads for my totes project that I was finally starting when this came up (mmm - whispy cherry). Lets me see what is under the pad to make sure I am not pressing junk into my workpiece. I doubt window thickness plexi would plane as nicely unless you pinch clamped it right behind the edge to avoid chattering and shattering, but I am just speculating there. Squirrel!!

Then on one of my FEW and FAR BETWEEN breaks I saw DevinT's post on polishing cocobolo, not COBOL of course, and her comment about the wood seeming near the hardness of plexi and polishing plexi and then the wood, which made me remember reading so many times that a planed and/or scraped surface is so much superior to a sanded surface, and polishing is essentially sanding on steroids to me, and it made me go HMMMM…. The planed edge of the plexi was semi see-thru, but far far from polished. The pictures DevinT shared made the surface of the wood look very shiny and just plain nice looking but appears slightly textured, not dead flat (unless that is an artifact of the photography and not really there on the wood) like planing/scraping produce when I am not messing up royally…. Did the polish need to be on a stiffer substrate to avoid digging in slightly more on the softer spots and around pores? Not sure how you would polish it on a flat surface or 12000 grit stone.

So is this accepted saying that planing/scraping is superior one of those mostly true truisms?


----------



## HokieKen

It depends on the definition of "superior" but I can get a much slicker suface on most hard woods than I can achieve by sanding. But it's also a different surface. Scraping is a combination of slicing and burnishing while sanding is abrading. So on a broad flat surface, scraper for the win! Of course that is somewhat dependent on the finish to be used.


----------



## DevinT

The wood is dead flat. I used my plane flattening reference granite. It slides slick on glass and feels like glass. The visual texture you are seeing on the Cocobolo I polished is in fact wood grain artifact from light refraction. Yeah, I went over kill. In the hand it has the feel of an immaculate chess piece for a high quality chess set that cost over $5k. I plan to try and take it over the top by filling holes in the end grain by mixing the Cocobolo dust with Danish Oil and rubbing it in then burnishing and coating again. Should be interesting to see what it looks like under magnification then. This is just a Christmas gift so I feel I can experiment here. The recipient is a musician and knows nothing about wood (that I know of).


----------



## DevinT

On this Cocobolo, I scraped one side, planed another, and polished another. I find each has unique character.


----------



## defrosted

That sounds awesome. kinda wish I could see and feel it when you're done, but if EVERYone did that it would probably stop looking quite so awesome…


----------



## DavePolaschek

> With a spare $1,000 I d buy a Bill Carter miter plane.


I keep thinking I should attempt to build a miter plane one of these years. Will probably cost me a lot more than it would to buy one of his…


----------



## Lazyman

I've been studying Bill Carters videos for a some day attempt as well.

I would also like to take a shot at making JayT's shooting plane design too. Don did a write up on TTT about it. Instead of cannibalizing a transitional plane, I think that I would just use an old #4 or #5's guts to cannibalize for it. At the end of the day it might cost (me) just as much as buying one but what's the fun in that.


----------



## DevinT

> Alternatively M. S. Bickford Starter Set A.
> 
> - Ocelot
> 
> Very interesting. I had not considered sets!
> 
> Hmmm, wonder what makes that set worth $1k versus cobbling a vintage set together from eBay. These aren t exactly very popular planes, and I see vintage ones go for pretty low prices on eBay-albeit their blades are likely to not be modern alloys or be in great condition.
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> Did you look at them?
> 
> 5 planes made to order from the same board, with Lie Neilsen blades, sharp, readty to go, with perfectly fitted wedges (I know, you won t have a plane wihtout an adjuster) They are *only* $200/ea. If you like them, you can order a full set and he ll give you credit for the ones you already have (but then they won t all be made from the same board).
> 
> No, I m not going to order any, but I like them.
> 
> -Paul
> 
> - Ocelot


Didn't look close enough. You are right, those are wonderful, and well worth the money.

They can do so much more than router bits because you can get right up next to the edges and create complex moldings that would otherwise be impossible to make.

Will definitely need a set of something like this for when I get to moldings, but I thought I might try my hand with the older ones first. My thought process often goes:

1. Learn *about* the skill
2. Learn *about* the tool
3. Learn how to *maintain* said tool
4. Buy the tools to maintain the tool
5. Buy an old version of the tool
6. Practice restoring old tool
7. Test drive restored old tool
8. Buy top of the line tool that uses same maintenance schedule but comes ready to use
9. Compare new tool use/results to restored one
10. Try to get restored tool up to quality of top of the line or better

Then when I need to restore either, I know how, have the practice, and am confident I can get the results I expect - baselines off the new out-of-box top-of-line product.

This set of rounds/hollows is exactly what I need for baselining molding planes.

Thanks for sharing those. I was actually completely unaware that anyone still made hollow/round molding planes akin to the vintage ones of years gone by. Without those new shiny planes I don't think I could get a good baseline.


----------



## defrosted

erg. planing the plexi went well, but when I went back to the cherry my plane was acting a bit outa kilter. It was throwing up 3 to 5 thin whispy strips, could not go deeper. Notched my blade all up.

grind. hone. ooooohhh!!!

Then I noticed something else. As I got down to my scribed lines the edges of my wonderful wide whispy shavings began to be corrugated and lumpy. erg. cheap dull marking gauge. Could not see the one i had been using and grabbed an unopened one and used it without even really looking at it. And why does spell check dictionary have so few good woodworking terms? Anyway, scribe point much less bullnose and much more needley now. Bladeish would be better. job for later.


----------



## DevinT

Yeah, I was going to say …

I've planed plexiglass before. Quite successfully, I might add. However … the things I noticed were …

It dulls the blade *very* fast. Unless your blade is wicked sharp to begin with, as you noticed, it will be like trying to plane a rock-and when your blade *is* sharp enough, you get these crazy wispy plastic shavings but the blade won't last long. If you had kept going on the plexi, eventually it would stop taking a shaving and create a ledge that you can't get past (read: back to planing a rock). In fact, when you are planing wood and you stop short and leave a "skin tag" it is often no big deal … it usually breaks off on its own by being run over by the plane again or is scooped up on the next pass. In plexi, if you stop short, it's no good. You create a hard stop that unless your plane is super sharp, cannot penetrate. In other words, interrupted cuts in plexi are the worst. Sometimes you can skew the blade to get a lower angle, go slower, and really apply down pressure to get through an interrupted cut, but you're going to have to sharpen again anyways so might as well get sharp when that happens.

I don't really plane plexi anymore for these reasons. It's horrible on the plane and I end up honing away my blade faster than I would like.


----------



## HokieKen

Plexiglas is highly abrasive. It's tough on bandsaw and table saw blades so it's definitely going to take a toll on a plane iron.


----------



## DevinT

Off a fresh hone, I can get *maybe* one or two swipes on the edge of a panel of 1/4" thick plexi where the results are near-crystal clear. In other words, I have *never* (regardless of how sharp) got a crystal clear edge from planing plexi. What usually happens is after the first or second swipe, the blade is deformed and on the third swipe you will see a line in the middle of the cut. That's where the deformation was cutting on a different plane at a microscopic level, leaving an unlevel (and therefore, not-crystal clear) surface. It's an exercise in futility I have found. The surface gets better *then* it gets worse because the blade has degraded so quickly.

If you are after crystal clear results in plexi (be it on the edge or anywhere else), my recipe doesn't involve back-sliding on results, but rather is a steady progression toward better and higher clarity until you can see through a 3-foot column of the stuff as if it were not even there (the type of clarity you have on prescription glasses-I know, I've used this technique to actually restore my glasses, albeit without the AR and blue light coatings).

1. Shape with 80 grit (aluminum oxide)
2. Refine with 220 (aluminum oxide)
3. Jump straight to 600 grit (silicon carbide) with polish compound (Meguiar's)
4. Jump to 2000 grit (silicon carbide) with polish compound
5. Jump to 3000 grit (silicon carbide) with polish compound
6. Microfiber cloth with polish compound

It's fast, and the polishing compound ensures you don't go backwards in clarity. Swarf binding is real and when it happens it adds time to the process and it sucks-suspending the particles in the Meguiar's Solo Cut and Polish cream excellently traps them and prevents rebinding. As you progress from steps 3 to 6, you will notice big jumps in clarity. Also, once you reach step 3 at 600 grit, you're really not in danger of changing the shape much.

I have made and used jigs to help sand on-the-90 to make sure I get perfectly perpendicular edges.

Planing the edges of plexi, I can never guarantee the results are jointed perpendicular to the face.


----------



## HokieKen

You're either much braver or much cheaper than me Devin ;-) Not a chance you'll see me taking abrasives to my specs!


----------



## DevinT

I had nothing to lose. It was that or get a new pair. They fell 3 stories onto concrete and had a big old scratch. It lasted the month I needed until we rolled over into a new year to get new ones.


----------



## HokieKen

Ahh. In that case, yeah it would be worth a shot.


----------



## DevinT

I certainly wouldn't have wanted to wear them for any longer-abrading the lens changed the prescription ever-so-slightly and I require a pretty strong prescription that has to be accurate or I get massive headaches all the time.


----------



## bandit571

Buster Brown has just dropped off a box…film at 2300 hrs…


----------



## bandit571

For now, this will have to do…









1st 2 boxes opened…9 pounds of paper?









Excavate the paper, to find "The Black Box" 








Follow that paper trail!









Hmmmm, interesting…









The 3 Amigos?


----------



## sansoo22

I don't wear my glasses unless I'm driving and even then it depends where I'm going. Was having trouble reading football scores last year but easy solution for that was buy an 80" TV. Bigger TV equals bigger words…problem solved.


----------



## HokieKen

Last year I could hold my phone at arm's length and read texts/e-mails/websites without my glasses. My arms must have gotten shorter this year…


----------



## HokieKen

You don't even have to build a box for these Bandit! What exactly are they?


----------



## bandit571

Not exactly sure…yet…


----------



## adot45

The big one is a Craftsman 4 edge, 3740BL aluminum.


----------



## sansoo22

> The big one is a Craftsman 4 edge, aluminum.
> 
> - adot45


Yep I have one. The boss lady confiscated it for decoration duties in the house. Which is fine by me because it wasn't all that fun to use.


----------



## RWE

> The big one is a Craftsman 4 edge, aluminum.
> 
> - adot45
> 
> Yep I have one. The boss lady confiscated it for decoration duties in the house. Which is fine by me because it wasn t all that fun to use.
> 
> - sansoo22


What time period was that model made? Might be a brother of Kenny's Buck Rogers planes, timewise, by the appearance.


----------



## sansoo22

My research came up with 1960s and that is as far as I could narrow it down. Mostly from the few examples I saw online with images of the box using the Craftsman crown logo which I believe debuted in 1960s. Mine is near mint condition and since its period correct for the time the house was built it got confiscated for decoration.


----------



## HokieKen

Well, Bandit got a plane that he doesn't already have. That's impressive in and of itself!


----------



## bandit571

aka..Sargent No. 600…1953 to 1960

Wonder IF Hock make replacement blades?

Large block plane seems to be an AL one, from Foster…1 KINSEY Buffalo, NY.

Little fellow is also by FOSTER,,,also AL body….

Will have to go and look up Foster of Buffalo, NY…..


----------



## HokieKen

Nice haul Bandit. Who is Santa???


----------



## bandit571

MOS….


----------



## corelz125

> MOS….
> 
> - bandit571


Looks like your on the outs with Mos now Kenny. He found some body else to gives planes to.


----------



## DLK

> I ve been studying Bill Carters videos for a some day attempt as well.
> 
> I would also like to take a shot at making JayT s shooting plane design too. Don did a write up on TTT about it. Instead of cannibalizing a transitional plane, I think that I would just use an old #4 or #5 s guts to cannibalize for it. At the end of the day it might cost (me) just as much as buying one but what s the fun in that.
> 
> 
> 
> - Lazyman


I actually bought the parts by mistake for a transitional plane. I had thought I could use them for another purpose, but Don W pointed out that I was wrong and suggested I build JayT s shooting plane . I just haven't got around to it. Maybe it a this winters project.


----------



## RWE

I have the parts to build one as well. Don't have the metal yet, but I have the transitional parts. Mos sent me one that had a bad body but good parts otherwise. I have the shooting board ready. I have more uncompleted projects in front of it, but it is tugging at me. Looks like a fun build.

I have the downloaded PDF on the build from Don's site. I don't know if it was linked there or if JayT emailed it to me. If you need a copy, PM me your email address and I will reply it back. 48 pages and good detail.


----------



## Mosquito

> The big one is a Craftsman 4 edge, aluminum.
> 
> - adot45
> 
> Yep I have one. The boss lady confiscated it for decoration duties in the house. Which is fine by me because it wasn t all that fun to use.
> 
> - sansoo22


I actually kinda liked it. It grew on me the more I fettled with it doing test runs. Though I will say trying to sharpen an iron where all 4 sides are sharp is interesting lol The iron's steel was actually better than I thought they would be. My guess would be 'late 50's or 60's too, as the bronze paint seems to match up with that era of power tools too

The two blocks are both Foster aluminum planes to fit with the theme. 
I already told Bandit, but I was really hoping to find a decent panel raiser, but the closest I got was a little over double our limit. After that, it was an adventure of trying to find something I hadn't seen him have before in the almost 11 years I've been here/seeing him post. Coming from the land of the dollar plane antique stores, no less lol

Edit: Looks like from Bandit's cross reference on the Sargent 600, they put the manufacture of those from '53-'60


----------



## Mosquito

The shavings picture I posted a few weeks ago was from that craftsman



























And the other two for good measure


----------



## Lazyman

I have a transitional plane that I could use for the shooting plane but I just can't bring myself to cut it apart. Rex Krueger did a video where modified the frog from a metal plane to make a plane similar to the old Marples wood kit planes. Seems like it should work for the JayT shooter too. I've got what should be the perfect no-name Jack to sacrifice for that.


----------



## RWE

> I have a transitional plane that I could use for the shooting plane but I just can t bring myself to cut it apart. Rex Krueger did a video where modified the frog from a metal plane to make a plane similar to the old Marples wood kit planes. Seems like it should work for the JayT shooter too. I ve got what should be the perfect no-name Jack to sacrifice for that.
> 
> - Lazyman


Do like I did. Appeal to the generosity of the LJ folks here. Someone will send you a transitional that is not reparable as far of the wood body. I see them all the time in the Antique Malls. Just make sure the iron and the frog part are good enough.


----------



## HokieKen

> I have a transitional plane that I could use for the shooting plane but I just can t bring myself to cut it apart. Rex Krueger did a video where modified the frog from a metal plane to make a plane similar to the old Marples wood kit planes. Seems like it should work for the JayT shooter too. I ve got what should be the perfect no-name Jack to sacrifice for that.
> 
> - Lazyman


Having a CNC where you could accurately cut the mouth/bed etc, I think I would look at making an infill if I were you with the blade bedded on the wood. Maybe put a Norris adjuster in there. I have the beginnings of a design to do something similar. I plan to use some heavy angle steel as the sole and reference side. Haven't decided yet about the innards.


----------



## HokieKen

It looks like that Craftsman works just fine Mos'


----------



## Lazyman

The CNC is not a bad idea Kenny. After the wood plane that John sent me (via Grant) in the plane swap earlier this year, I am trying to imagine a way to adapt his split down the middle technique, though that might not work with the skewed angle. I've got to play around with some ideas in CAD.


----------



## 33706

> I have a transitional plane that I could use for the shooting plane but I just can t bring myself to cut it apart. Rex Krueger did a video where modified the frog from a metal plane to make a plane similar to the old Marples wood kit planes. Seems like it should work for the JayT shooter too. I ve got what should be the perfect no-name Jack to sacrifice for that.
> 
> - Lazyman


I made one, about ten years ago. All but lost to history, but the plane itself is on some obscure shelf.

https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/34646


----------



## drsurfrat

> I have a transitional plane that I could use for the shooting plane but I just can t bring myself to cut it apart. Rex Krueger did a video where modified the frog from a metal plane to make a plane similar to the old Marples wood kit planes. Seems like it should work for the JayT shooter too. I ve got what should be the perfect no-name Jack to sacrifice for that.
> - Lazyman


Nathan, want this stuff?

aagch! - see below


----------



## drsurfrat

It has the first lateral design, so that puts it around 1885-1888


----------



## Mosquito

I made a 2-piece "traditional style" plane quite a few years ago (pretty early on, remember the old workmate apartment shop? lol)








It's blog here

Also made a hybrid version for one of the plane swaps that was 3-piece laminated, but the outsides were still done the same way as the 2-piece, which I found easier than just the 2-piece. With my CNC now, the 2-piece might be interesting to revisit now.









Project post
With its accompanying blog


----------



## HokieKen

My thinking on the CNC was to make a single-piece infill. But I guess most home shop woodworking CNCs only cut in two axes?


----------



## controlfreak

> I made a 2-piece "traditional style" plane quite a few years ago (pretty early on, remember the old workmate apartment shop? lol)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It s blog here
> 
> Also made a hybrid version for one of the plane swaps that was 3-piece laminated, but the outsides were still done the same way as the 2-piece, which I found easier than just the 2-piece. With my CNC now, the 2-piece might be interesting to revisit now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Project post
> With its accompanying blog
> 
> - Mosquito


Aww crap Mos, I have been thinking a lot about how the old world planes were made. Thinking how can I make the ramp (frog?) true and straight using only hand tools, you're split method seems to be the answer I was looking for. I skimmed the your blogs but will go into more detail later. I do have two questions 1) what did you do about that tear out? 2) Is step one to get the iron and build around that?


----------



## HokieKen

I have a 3-piecer from Mos' too. Rock solid  Almost as pretty as its owner and twice as pretty as its maker!


----------



## DevinT

> My thinking on the CNC was to make a single-piece infill. But I guess most home shop woodworking CNCs only cut in two axes?
> 
> - HokieKen


Even with extra axes, it would still be hard. That's because to make a 45 degree bed in a 2" thick piece of lumber, you have to cut the length of the hypotenuse (solve cos(45) = 2 / x) or in other words, you need a bit that is 2.82" long.

Most CNC machines use 1/4" shank bits. You're not going to find a 3" long bit in 1/4" shank (well, there is that *one* Yonico straight bit, which terrifies me; seems Yonico is the only company that flies in the face of danger).

So your CNC is likely going to either have to use a shorter bit and extend it so the collet doesn't hit the wood surface, or you're going to need a 1/2" shank bit to reach all the way to the mouth.

Alternatively, you could route half the bed, flip the stock over, and then cut through the mouth. That way you'd only need a 1.5" long bit. ... and the ability to cut on an angle either by tilting the piece or the CNC head.


----------



## Mosquito

> Aww crap Mos, I have been thinking a lot about how the old world planes were made. Thinking how can I make the ramp (frog?) (*bed*) true and straight using only hand tools, you re split method seems to be the answer I was looking for. I skimmed the your blogs but will go into more detail later. I do have two questions 1) what did you do about that tear out? 2) Is step one to get the iron and build around that?
> 
> - controlfreak


 
Nothing lol It worked fine the way it was, and I eventually ended up (somewhat recently actually) sawing off the about 1/4" from the bottom, then jointing it flat. It did open the mouth wider, but it got rid of the tear out. The main reason for doing that, though, was because it just felt too tall in use (too top heavy, so was hard to balance when jointing) 
I did build it around the iron, yeah. Seemed the easiest to have it on hand before starting, just to mark off the iron instead of measure.

the 3-piece was the easiest to get a good bed for the iron quickly, as I could use my miter box to cut that, and a hand plane to clean it up. Then I just had to match up about 3/8" from the sides with it.



> I have a 3-piecer from Mos too. Rock solid  Almost as pretty as its owner and twice as pretty as its maker!
> 
> - HokieKen


I think you're being generous to the maker lol
That one was also a Krenov style with the cross pin rather than traditional with the abutments for the wedge


----------



## MikeB_UK

> I have a transitional plane that I could use for the shooting plane but I just can t bring myself to cut it apart. Rex Krueger did a video where modified the frog from a metal plane to make a plane similar to the old Marples wood kit planes. Seems like it should work for the JayT shooter too. I ve got what should be the perfect no-name Jack to sacrifice for that.
> 
> - Lazyman


You're meant to modify it?
I just stuck a hand grip on the side.


----------



## Lazyman

The way John did it in his project I posted above was to deconstruct it and then it can be done in 2D. 









But with the JayT design it would probably require 3D I think because the bed for the iron is sloped in 2 dimensions relative to the sides. Either that or you have to mount it on the CNC at an angle or cut the side at an angle after the inside is cut out. I will have to draw it up so that I can visualize it better.

My CNC can do 3D carving but my ability to model it so that I can then import into to create the G-code is lacking … but figuring that out is sort of what makes it fun for me.


----------



## DevinT

You undoubtedly remember the plane I made from this year's swap. Though a bit of back story …

I bought an LV plane kit which included metal parts and instructions.

The first thing I did was throw the instructions away. The second thing I did was toss the 1/4" brass rod it comes with. Both of these were useless (the instructions contained numerous errors that only the trained eye could find-actually, what I did was to annotate all the mistakes in pen and sent the instructions with my notes to Eric along with the plane I made him … so that he can see where the LV plane kit instructions do you wrong).

Then I used CNC to cut 2 profiles of the blade bed at 27/32" thick and glued them together using an undersized 1/4" alignment hole (1/4-20 threaded rod to align during glue-up).

It took me about 30 seconds to prepare the blade bed after glue was dry. I didn't sand it smooth because I wanted it to have texture to grab the back of the iron under pressure. I just ran some 120 grit over it with some very very light pressure to make it look nice.

Glued up, I had a 1-11/16" thick blade bed usable for infill or for sandwiching between wooden cheeks.

I thickness a board down to 27/32" and cut both profiles from the same board before gluing.

The iron sits deliciously flat every time.




























Here are pictures I haven't posted here before of the build process:


----------



## Mosquito

> My thinking on the CNC was to make a single-piece infill. But I guess most home shop woodworking CNCs only cut in two axes?
> 
> - HokieKen


They're usually referred to as 2.5D when they're only 3 axis machines like that. X Y Z, but not A or B (rolling the part along X or Y)



> Even with extra axes, it would still be hard. That s because to make a 45 degree bed in a 2" thick piece of lumber, you have to cut the length of the hypotenuse (solve cos(45) = 2 / x) or in other words, you need a bit that is 2.82" long.
> 
> Most CNC machines use 1/4" shank bits. You re not going to find a 3" long bit in 1/4" shank (well, there is that *one* Yonico straight bit, which terrifies me; seems Yonico is the only company that flies in the face of danger).
> 
> So your CNC is likely going to either have to use a shorter bit and extend it so the collet doesn t hit the wood surface, or you re going to need a 1/2" shank bit to reach all the way to the mouth.
> 
> Alternatively, you could route half the bed, flip the stock over, and then cut through the mouth. That way you d only need a 1.5" long bit. ... and the ability to cut on an angle either by tilting the piece or the CNC head.
> 
> - DevinT


It also depends on how much open space you have. With the right endmill you can do parallel tool paths on a ramp, without having to have the side edge of the tool cutting the whole thing.

And you can find long 1/4" shank bits, not quite 3" long, but you don't REALLY need to have the cut length be that long anyway, unless you need to do a single finishing path (and let's face it, we're not production sales here).
They're just a little more nerve wracking in practice… depth of cut went way down for this lol This was a 4" long bit, with 2" LOC


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, in 2" lumber you can cut a bed at any angle with a 2" end mill if you can cut in the Z axis and X/Y at the same time. Think of it as cutting stairs instead of a ramp but with infinitesimally small steps. Or you can use a ball end mill and use the tangency for the toolpath. Or a v-tool. Lots of ways to skin that cat if you can cut in all 3 axes. In this case, you wouldn't need to rotate about X or Y (4th axis).


----------



## DevinT

Is that cell cast acrylic? I have long been thinking about doing an acrylic plane out of a single block like that.


----------



## DevinT

> Yeah, in 2" lumber you can cut a bed at any angle with a 2" end mill if you can cut in the Z axis and X/Y at the same time. Think of it as cutting stairs instead of a ramp but with infinitesimally small steps. Or you can use a ball end mill and use the tangency for the toolpath. Or a v-tool. Lots of ways to skin that cat if you can cut in all 3 axes. In this case, you wouldn t need to rotate about X or Y (4th axis).
> 
> - HokieKen


Hey, that's a cool idea! I had not thought of that. Like my Kingston 3/4" ball router bit, you are absolutely right. If you can ramp on the tangent then no rotation of the head needed. Then once you've cleared a good amount, you can go in there with a straight or spiral bit to open the mouth because you've removed enough waste that the collet can get down in there below the surface to reach the mouth (or you're using a CNC with 1/2" collet router and you've got long bits and don't have to worry about pushing the collet past the surface)


----------



## HokieKen

Can the origin do that Devin (ramp on the tangent)? I know it can't cut in the Z simultaneous to moving in the other axes but I'm not sure how granular/precise the Z movement is between cuts or what the travel limit is?


----------



## Mosquito

It is cast acrylic, yeah. It was for a custom reservoir+pump unit that I made for a computer case mod project










What is the z-axis range on an Origin? I never thought ti to be all that much, but truthfully never looked in to it.


----------



## DevinT

> Can the origin do that Devin (ramp on the tangent)? I know it can t cut in the Z simultaneous to moving in the other axes but I m not sure how granular/precise the Z movement is between cuts or what the travel limit is?
> 
> - HokieKen


No ramping. Not likely to come via software anytime soon. So far, the only ramping features they've given us is the "Helix" mode which will ramp into a cut on a spiral but you can only enable that feature when the entirety of the cut path is (1) a circle that is (2) completely within the correctable area. In other words, to do a helix operation, you position the Origin over a small circle, hold it stationary, make sure the "helix" icon is highlighted, and press the green button. Instead of plunging straight down, it sweeps the bit in a spiral descending at the requested speed sweeping at the desired feed rate (both auto speed and plunge speed effect the helix operation).

While cool, the issue with doing a ramped operation via Origin for the programmers would be that there are different modes to consider. Could you ramp a pocket (which assumes the human can move anywhere within the pocket)? Or can you only ramp a path (which presumes linear progression along the path and no traversing backwards up the ramp as you could considering a ramped pocket).

It's not impossible, I am saying, but if they did offer it, they would probably only offer it on a path (not a pocket). In fact, then you have to consider whether the path is open or closed. If open, then one need only set an on-screen depth for the start node and end node-computer would ramp the bit in the appropriate direction depending on which end you started from (and an open path does not allow plunging anywhere in between-you have to start your plunge at a predetermined start or end node and intermediary nodes are ignored). Allowing the ability to ramp a closed path would be more difficult considering that the human could plunge it anywhere into the path. Also, with a closed shape, how would you even go about defining the depths-again, considering that the human can plunge anywhere, even mid-way between defined nodes.

No, if this feature to ramp the bit by user-defined values ever does come to the Shaper Origin, it will be limited to basically open paths at the onset for simplicity sake. I could actually see that happening as it is not that difficult. The existing math that the Origin performs in its "head" is already far more complicated than a simple ramp between A and B on an open path (for example, the math involved in the helix plunge feature far surpasses the math required here).

Though, I am not holding my breath.


----------



## RWE

> I ve been studying Bill Carters videos for a some day attempt as well.
> 
> I would also like to take a shot at making JayT s shooting plane design too. Don did a write up on TTT about it. Instead of cannibalizing a transitional plane, I think that I would just use an old #4 or #5 s guts to cannibalize for it. At the end of the day it might cost (me) just as much as buying one but what s the fun in that.
> 
> 
> 
> - Lazyman


If any one has been following the ramping and CNC discussion, but was interested in doing the JayT transitional shooting plane, he uses a compound miter saw to cut the bed for the frog. Not rocket science. Interesting, but not too complicated.

Here is a picture of the wood part, which is open on one side. Get the PDF on the build to get details.


----------



## DevinT

> It is cast acrylic, yeah. It was for a custom reservoir+pump unit that I made for a computer case mod project
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the z-axis range on an Origin? I never thought ti to be all that much, but truthfully never looked in to it.
> 
> - Mosquito


0" to 1.75"

or

0 mm to 45 mm

Closer you get the bit to the work surface at rest, the more of that range you have at your disposal.

Longest 1/4" shank bit I have is a 1.5" Amana Tool affair that extends below the base of the router if I completely seat the spindle.

Naturally, it stands to reason that if the end of the bit at rest is above the router sub-base, that distance is subtracted from the usable range, and thus if the bit at rest is *below* the router sub-base, that distance is *added* to the usable range.

So in the example of that bit, if I say, pocket out 1" depth and then fully seat the spindle and the bit at rest is 1/2" into the pocketed area, my realized effective range of depth is now 1/2" to 2 1/4".


----------



## Mosquito

1.75" is almost more than I was expecting, but not sure why lol


----------



## HokieKen

> 1.75" is almost more than I was expecting, but not sure why lol
> 
> - Mosquito


----------



## bandit571

Dungeon Woodshop isn't much on the graphic arts..but…need to chose between these 2 labels…









HMMMmmmmm?


----------



## DevinT

> 1.75" is almost more than I was expecting, but not sure why lol
> 
> - Mosquito
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


Hah. Between you and I (and everyone else in this thread), "that's what he/she said" is a common utterance in our household (which will have to change once the baby is old enough to repeat what he hears)


----------



## DevinT

> Dungeon Woodshop isn t much on the graphic arts..but…need to chose between these 2 labels…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HMMMmmmmm?
> 
> - bandit571


Ummm, is it worth considering that the thin line around what I presume is the model will be the first thing to deteriorate?


----------



## bandit571

Leaning more towards using the bottom label…have to do a bit of trimming, first..


----------



## defrosted

AAArg, trying to lay out totes on a block of cherry wood. (see??? plane content!!!) Had a curious thought about my ruler since I first picked up a cheap see-thru one because it simplified laying out the templates, then thought to myself (as if I could actually think to another… not me…) "I wonder if this cheap plastic ruler is accurate."

The difference over 12 inches is just overish of 1/32 of an inch, getting progressively further behind with each passing inch, not because it stopped at 11 15/16 like one I used to have…. The cheap plastic ruler is a hair shorter than my cheap metal rulers so it measures long and marks short, if you will.

And my favorite 6 inch combo square is almost 1/64" short on one end and 1/128" long on the other (Or the other way around) but at least it still registers dead square and the intervals are dead on with the rest of the agreeing pack of scales. (and I just noticed the spirit vial is empty!!!)

If I am measuring with a combination square from the end to the first bore and then measure over to the next part with the ruler the difference is admittedly rather small but it will add up over the 7 intervals in the 2 foot of cherry I have. I am aiming for 7 totes out of it and I have 3/8" wiggle room after accounting for kerfs and such but that was using the tape measure that loses about 1/64" every foot compared to all 6 etched metal measurers I have in front of me.

AAArg.

How much is a gold standard measuring stick?


----------



## DevinT

These aren't Starrett's are they? It's exactly things like this that drove me to pay through the nose for my 12" and 24" precision engineering rules (and would love a 36"). I would be so upset if I heard that Starrett gave anybody a bum product because I was sold on the idea that it's impossible to get an out-of-whack Starrett.


----------



## drsurfrat

When I layout totes, I just cut a thick card template and draw them on by a sharpie, which accounts for the kerf. Then whatever fits, fits.

I also have 2 sets of 3 templates (w + w/o front bolt) for the changes Stanley made over the years. I could digitize them if you are interested.










I also now run the grain parallel to the horn, and not the base. Less dehorning I hope.


----------



## defrosted

Thanks doc. I was going at it from the other direction. Going to bore my holes for the threaded rods first while it is one big thing and easy to position and hold, and then index the cutouts around the centerline of each of the bores instead of the edge of the blank. I figured out how far apart these bores would need to be to sneak in an extra tote or 2 into my 24" of cherry by alternating top/bottom and left/right so that the bases would overlap between the first 2 boreholes, then the HORNs overlap in the next gap. Saves over an inch of board for each tote compared to Lee Valley's template that calls for cutting our a 4 1/2 by 4 3/4 blank for each. And I can deploy all 7 totes that are theoretically available this way. Just the irritation of uncertainty and inability to trust disagreeing measuring devices.

Wonder if i "snuck" one of the agreeing scales into Woodcraft or Rockler and compared them to a Starret? At least that would tell me if I really needed to sink the money.

Then to further demonstrate that I really do not know what I am doing, I proceeded to lay out entry and exit hole positions, indexing from the end I had not squared…...........................


----------



## drsurfrat

I have similar trouble every time I maker a tote. I always seem to have to open the long hole up a bit with a rattail file. The counterbores I can get positioned after cutting, but even then, I get chipping at the top hole near the horn. Next time I will leave extra 1/4" of material at that spot and shape the arc after the counterbore.


----------



## donwilwol

I drill the bolt hole all the way through after layout but before cutting them out. I then counter bore to a depth of about half way down a short nut.

Then cut them and shape them.

I now have a counter bore started and can easily be completed to the depth I need without chipping. I can use a short or long nut without knowing it before I start.


----------



## drsurfrat

Much better idea, thanks Don.


----------



## Lazyman

Warning: Tool Gloat Ahead:

Lucked into a deal at an estate sale. This is my take home pile. Total price tag was well under $100. See anything that might be of interest to the HPOYD crowd?










Veritas 112 was NIB and had 2 extra blades including a toothing blade stuck inside the box. .

Tons more turning blanks, many of them exotic woods with price tags on them. They were asking half the sticker price on anything marked. I may have to go back over there this afternoon and get a few more. The garage has a bunch of turning tools and several Incra sleds and miter gauges that they weren't even ready to sell yet so plan to have another sale for the tools. He had ShopSmith setup and 2 tall metal tool cabinets that they said were full.


----------



## defrosted

DevinT, I have less $ in 6 combo squares and half a dozen scales from sales and such than a single Starret anything would / will cost me. Never heard a single disparaging word about Starret.

I caught the layout issue before boring anything. Got 7 1/4" bores all the way through the stick, and have gotten the 7/8 holes for shaping the curve at the bases, and discovered that I totally burned up my 1 1/4 spade on some hair brained project in the past, possibly getting the plumbing in to get inspected on time.

So off to get something to bore 7 1.25" holes with with, and then a coarse diamond plate while it is on sale at Woodcraft. taking one of my scales with me for comparison if they don't mind. I bet they have one in use in the back where the possibility of scratching it will be less troublesome.


----------



## rad457

You Suck Nathan I have the Veritas 112, but no extra blades, took awhile to figure out how to use it.


----------



## corelz125

Great deal you got Nathan.


----------



## corelz125

Mentioned parts storage early this week. I have a couple extra parts. Out of all of it there's still parts I need that I don't have. Boxes, zip lock bags, the large pill bottles are good for small screws and tote rods.


----------



## bandit571

More label work….printer even came up with an idea…
from that B&W thing to…









and then to what the printer tried out…









Someone suggested I add a label on the ends…hmmmm..









With or without model numbers?


----------



## HokieKen

Nathan you suck soooooooo much!


----------



## Lazyman

I do, Kenny. I really do… but this doesn't.










Just a quick sharpen, hone and burnish to give it a try. I didn't have time to really fettle but got nice shavings on a small scrap of SYP, none the less.


----------



## drsurfrat

To drive the point home, you suck Nathan.
Nice find…


----------



## donwilwol

Well, it's not a Sargent but you still suck!,


----------



## sansoo22

Wanted to play with some one of the transitional planes today. I've learned a lot about sharpening since the last time I used one. I think its doing pretty good with this piece of ash.









Since I had one out may as well get them all out for a family photo.


----------



## rad457

LOL! I think even a CNC machine could plane Ash


----------



## bandit571

Label work…for someone not trained in the Graphic Arts..









Then again..neither is the printer, I think…









Have to do some cutting, next..
.








May not be a CNC, but…..


----------



## Thedustydutchman

My latest purchase, type 18 no 7. I dont usually buy from eBay but took a chance I this one. Shipping all the way across the country had me worried but it was packaged VERY well. Needs some cleaning but is in super good shape. I'll clean it up this weekend and see how it looks. Still waiting on my CBN wheels for the worksharp to ship so no sharpening yet.


----------



## controlfreak

Looks nice!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Look like it should be a good'n. I like the No 7 size. Nice to have.


----------



## Ocelot

Well done Dusty!


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Thanks guys! I'm really happy with it. Anyone wanna buy a repaired keen kutter k7 that this will be replacing lol


----------



## 33706

> Wanted to play with some one of the transitional planes today. I ve learned a lot about sharpening since the last time I used one. I think its doing pretty good with this piece of ash.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since I had one out may as well get them all out for a family photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - sansoo22


Glad to see others experiencing the joy of Transitional planes!


----------



## DevinT

Santa has been in the shop because the elves got lazy.

The blade on the plane for my recipient was jacked all to hell. Had a humongous chip that required me to grind back almost 3/8" from the edge. The rest of the edge was so bad, it would have given Rob Blunt a run for his name. It took me over 8,000 strokes on 300 grit diamond to restore the primary bevel.

... and by the time I had done that, I figured, hey, let's just keep going and put a mirror finish on the whole bevel.

That's right … someone is getting a mirror polished single bevel blade for Christmas.

Santa is tired, so the rest of the plane is up to the recipient. I did the hard work, they get to have all the fun.


----------



## tshiker

HPOYD - Secret Santa.

Update from Long Island NY.

1 Secret Santa package received and nestled under the tree waiting for Christmas morning and one package loaded on Santa's sled heading for someone on the nice list far north!


----------



## theoldfart

Elves are tired, will finish tomorrow. If it doesn't snow it'll be on it's way tomorrow.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Santa's elf has been here, too. And he's now worn out. Like Devin, we have a mirror finish single bevel that's key to the final product. And I have bald spots on my arm as testament to sharp. Package hitting the PO tomorrow!

Mos, nice selection you found!

And on a separate note, a photo bomb for Kenny.


----------



## bandit571

This Santa's Elf is not so much tired out, bad fall the other morning, dealing with a concussion at the moment….


----------



## HokieKen

I was getting ready to leave for work Smitty! Now I have to go take a cold shower :-(


----------



## TedT2

A little gift is headed east at the moment….UPS should be delivering tomorrow….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You're welcome, Kenny. ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

At least it wasn't the Langdon Smitty. Then I would have had to call in sick ;-)


----------



## KentInOttawa

> This Santa s Elf is not so much tired out, bad fall the other morning, dealing with a concussion at the moment….
> 
> - bandit571


That sucks, Bandit. Get whatever rest you need so that you can get back to the dungeon.


----------



## RWE

> This Santa s Elf is not so much tired out, bad fall the other morning, dealing with a concussion at the moment….
> 
> - bandit571


Get well Bandit. I always enjoy the random plane pictures. Keep'em coming.


----------



## Lazyman

Careful Bandit, they are going to make you start wearing a helmet. Be careful out there.

A question for the brain trust here. I need to smooth and flatten the end of the my work bench top after sawing it to even out the ends after the glue up. I have gotten one end is good enough but where the wagon vise will be I need it flat and square so I can attach an end cap. I wound up with it a little out of square top to bottom but not enough that I want to use a saw to cut it again. I think it is little enough that with a little sweat I can plane it square and flat. Any tips on how make this easier? I've had the best luck with a #5 (MF 14)-a block plane worked for a couple of small high spots but was too small to handle the 5"x21"end grain in a reasonable time. What bevel angle will work best in SYP end grain? Any thoughts about the best way to handle this? The end grain is pretty brutal on the #5's iron and the only low angle planes I have are small block planes.


----------



## RWE

If your top is mounted, you can screw or clamp boards to the front and back and create a router sled platform and use a bottoming router bit. I did this on my bench build. You use a level and strings that form an X pattern to level the front and back boards to one another. This is for a more drastic/serious type of wood removal and leveling. If you can do it with planes, that is probably the better way to go.

If you get interested in the router sled thing, post back here or PM me and I can did up some references. I think I picked up the idea on a Chris Schwarz (sp) video.


----------



## HokieKen

A low-angle jack is your best bet for endgrain Nathan. You can certainly do it with your standard Jack but you'll want it razor sharp and set for a light cut. A low-angle is a far better pitch for endgrain and unfortunately there's no way to really approximate a lower pitch on a bevel-down plane. I don't think the bevel angle is going to make much difference, just that it's as sharp as you can get it. I'd set the chipbreaker tight to the edge as well.


----------



## Lazyman

Thanks RWE, I have not built the base yet and I am trying to get the end cap ready for mounting the wagon vise. This will be much easier with the top upside down. I considered the router but did not spend any time trying to figure out how to do that. I would be interested to see how that might be done.

I also have a power planer and I considered using that to remove the bulk and then switch to the hand plane for a final finish.


----------



## Lazyman

Thanks Kenny for giving me an(other) excuse to buy a LA Jack. I almost bought one during the Lee Valley blemish sale but didn't pull the trigger. Doh!

With the standard Jack, I may be spending as much time sharpening as I am planing. So do you think that there is any benefit at all in using a 35° back bevel for example?


----------



## HokieKen

It'll be a little more durable in general. Way back, I experimented with different bevel angles and secondary, tertiary bevels etc. In the end, I concluded 25 degrees was my sweet spot. Steeper angles may last a little longer but I didn't feel like it was as keen off the stones. I also didn't feel like a secondary bevel cut as good as a single bevel. So, for me, all bevel-down planes get a single 25 degree bevel for all circumstances and I've been happy with that method thus far.

Of course you know what opinions are like and how many people have them so YMMV ;-)

And the LAJ is a highly recommended purchase. If you want to test drive one, I can send you mine for a few weeks. No endgrain cutting boards for gifts this year so I can live without it ;-P


----------



## HokieKen

Oh wait, I just noticed you said a 35 deg. BACK bevel. No, that will be a disadvantage in endgrain. That would be like a 80 degree pitched frog. So a scraper. Any back bevel will be a detriment on endgrain IMO.


----------



## RWE

> Thanks RWE, I have not built the base yet and I am trying to get the end cap ready for mounting the wagon vise. This will be much easier with the top upside down. I considered the router but did not spend any time trying to figure out how to do that. I would be interested to see how that might be done.
> 
> I also have a power planer and I considered using that to remove the bulk and then switch to the hand plane for a final finish.
> 
> - Lazyman


Depending on how thick your top is, you might could use a long router bit to mill the end grain. Put a fence board for the router to run against and let the two or three inch bit make the cut. I believe I have seen this where the fence board was continuous around the end so you could flip the top and make passes on both sides without having to try to adjust the fence to match. In other words, the fence was made of a top and bottom board with sides and was fixed to the top so that you can mill around it. Remove it and move it to the other end, rinse and repeat. Sound like you only need a very light pass and if you have a good bit, it should be very clean.

It was the Wood Whisperer where I got the method for the router sled to flatten a bench top. I have used the same technique to flatten slabs.

I was not fond of the idea of trying to find perfectly flat on edge lumber, so I used two by fours with angle iron fixed to the top to get a good flat reference for the sled to ride on.

If you do this, it is wise to have a strip of sacrificial lumber or in my case, a two by four side, that you can cut into with the router bit, else you leave a strip along the front and back of your top. A hand plane will clear the strip, but if you can cut into the sacrificial layer, you wind up with a better top.


----------



## Lazyman

Thanks for the offer Kenny but I probably don't need my hands on one to convince myself to buy one.  I am just kicking myself for not getting the blemished one or more LV gift cards-I've already spent the one I ordered on a MF clone bench stop.

Unfortunately, I have probably already used up my xmas list with other things but I will put one on my list just in case my wife is feeling generous or doesn't want to hear me whine about it.


----------



## ac0rn

When planing, it may be easier if you stand the top on its long edge, this way you are planing down vertically instead of horizontal.


----------



## Ocelot

I bet your elbow is sore today!



> Santa has been in the shop because the elves got lazy.
> 
> The blade on the plane for my recipient was jacked all to hell. Had a humongous chip that required me to grind back almost 3/8" from the edge. The rest of the edge was so bad, it would have given Rob Blunt a run for his name. It took me over 8,000 strokes on 300 grit diamond to restore the primary bevel.
> 
> ... and by the time I had done that, I figured, hey, let s just keep going and put a mirror finish on the whole bevel.
> 
> That s right … someone is getting a mirror polished single bevel blade for Christmas.
> 
> Santa is tired, so the rest of the plane is up to the recipient. I did the hard work, they get to have all the fun.
> 
> - DevinT


----------



## DevinT

> A low-angle jack is your best bet for endgrain Nathan. You can certainly do it with your standard Jack but you ll want it razor sharp and set for a light cut. A low-angle is a far better pitch for endgrain and unfortunately there s no way to really approximate a lower pitch on a bevel-down plane. I don t think the bevel angle is going to make much difference, just that it s as sharp as you can get it. I d set the chipbreaker tight to the edge as well.
> 
> - HokieKen


Skewing the plane in the cut effectively lowers the angle. Just FYI


----------



## DevinT

> I bet your elbow is sore today!
> 
> Santa has been in the shop because the elves got lazy.
> 
> The blade on the plane for my recipient was jacked all to hell. Had a humongous chip that required me to grind back almost 3/8" from the edge. The rest of the edge was so bad, it would have given Rob Blunt a run for his name. It took me over 8,000 strokes on 300 grit diamond to restore the primary bevel.
> 
> ... and by the time I had done that, I figured, hey, let s just keep going and put a mirror finish on the whole bevel.
> 
> That s right … someone is getting a mirror polished single bevel blade for Christmas.
> 
> Santa is tired, so the rest of the plane is up to the recipient. I did the hard work, they get to have all the fun.
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> - Ocelot


Actually, I work the stones pretty low (around waste height) and make sure to keep my shoulders un-tensed while working back and forth.

For me, the real issue was making sure I don't continuously look down at the stone. Having my head down, the moment I stopped my round (I worked in rounds of 300 and 500 strokes before flipping the stone and repeating) I would look up and get a shooting pain in my neck.

So, I had to keep the motion fairly mechanical so that I could lift my head, look around the room continuously, all the while keeping the iron on the stone while blind to the process. That's the only way that I could keep my neck from locking up through the process.

Alternatively, for a couple rounds I did try sitting down, but as you stated, that just moved all the tension into my elbows. With the whole sharpening rig mounted at waste height, I was instead able to impart a slow rocking back and forth to completely minimize building tension in my arms, wrists, elbows, and shoulders-albeit having to sharpen "blind" because looking down for long periods was brutal.

*EDIT:* The trick to keeping tension out of your shoulders is that every so often (say, every 30 seconds or so), try to lower your shoulders toward the floor. You may not realize you are even doing it, but as you get into the sharpening motions, your shoulders may rise. If your shoulders stay risen, you will pay a steep price the next day, and so every so often, just try to lower them (while still in motion, still working the stones)-if you can lower them, then they had risen and you need to self-monitor where you are building tension. The whole process should be very relaxing in my opinion-almost Zen-like-and you should aim to stay as limber as possible. The diamonds work effectively, let them work the iron for you, you don't need pressure, just motion, time, and wiping down in-between cycles.

*SECOND EDIT:* I wonder if there is a more effective way to get the same results-that is, a fat honking single bevel that has no hollow and is mirror polished. Wheels (like on a Tormek) won't do it because they will impart a hollow (which to get rid of, you'll have to take it to the stones in the end anyways). How about those precision grinders they use to flatten plane soles? That seems like it would be rather overkill and I am not even sure how you would mount a plane iron in one of those things.


----------



## HokieKen

Very true and a good point Devin. It requires a lot more force to push a plane through endgrain compared to long grain though so I imagine that it would be awkward (for lack of a better description) to push with the knob, blade and tote out of alignment. It would certainly be worth a shot though!


----------



## DevinT

> Very true and a good point Devin. It requires a lot more force to push a plane through endgrain compared to long grain though so I imagine that it would be awkward (for lack of a better description) to push with the knob, blade and tote out of alignment. It would certainly be worth a shot though!
> 
> - HokieKen


Yeah, it would be awkward, but I find that it can be made to work with the right hip motion and locking your arms. The motion almost becomes a twisting motion than a pushing motion.

The shavings that come off look like those that come off a spill plane (used to create conical barrel shavings used like matches to light fires).

*ASIDE:* If you never skewed your plane and (1) produced such shavings and then (2) light said shaving on fire, then I definitely recommend it. Pro-tip: don't light the shaving on fire adjacent to other shavings (you may be tempted to shake the spill to put it out, but an ember could fly off the tip and land in a nearby pile). In many ways, these bespoke matches I find to be quite pleasant and satisfyingly effective. I think they actually work better than matches. All I am missing is a little box to hold some spills and then if anyone ever asks me for a light, I can pull out a spill, light it with my Bic, and then hand it to them … they can't steal my lighter then and it's sure to be a conversation piece. Not to mention that they smell absolutely wonderful (like the wood the shaving is made from). Very aromatic.

*EDIT:* Either when I get a home with a fireplace or I buy camping gear, I am definitely going to buy a spill plane


----------



## Lazyman

Pretty much the only way I could get it to cut at all was to skew the angle to get a slicing cut. This probably helps lengthen the time between sharpening too. It doesn't help that the ends are perpendicular to the floor (it is about 6' long). It makes for a pretty uncomfortable position for any sort of planing but with the end grain particularly so because you don't have gravity and your weight helping to keep contact with the surface. Any sort of resistance can cause loss of cutting actions. I have also noticed that because the growth rings run in random directions that some of the boards in the glue up require me to change directions so that makes it even tougher.

EDIT: I wonder if that MF No. 7 skewed rabbet/block plane my wife is going to give me for Xmas would be any easier. Santa might have to come early.


----------



## sansoo22

> *SECOND EDIT:* I wonder if there is a more effective way to get the same results-that is, a fat honking single bevel that has no hollow and is mirror polished. Wheels (like on a Tormek) won t do it because they will impart a hollow (which to get rid of, you ll have to take it to the stones in the end anyways). How about those precision grinders they use to flatten plane soles? That seems like it would be rather overkill and I am not even sure how you would mount a plane iron in one of those things.
> 
> - DevinT


The DMT extra extra coarse stone takes very little time to remove the hollow grind on an iron. Or you can use a honing guide, surface plate, and 60 grit paper. I've done both and its maybe 5 to 7 minutes of work to remove the hollow.


----------



## DevinT

> *SECOND EDIT:* I wonder if there is a more effective way to get the same results-that is, a fat honking single bevel that has no hollow and is mirror polished. Wheels (like on a Tormek) won t do it because they will impart a hollow (which to get rid of, you ll have to take it to the stones in the end anyways). How about those precision grinders they use to flatten plane soles? That seems like it would be rather overkill and I am not even sure how you would mount a plane iron in one of those things.
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> The DMT extra extra coarse stone takes very little time to remove the hollow grind on an iron. Or you can use a honing guide, surface plate, and 60 grit paper. I ve done both and its maybe 5 to 7 minutes of work to remove the hollow.
> 
> - sansoo22


Any preference to sandpaper type? Aluminum Oxide is what I assume, but silicon carbide is another fun flavor.


----------



## DevinT

> Pretty much the only way I could get it to cut at all was to skew the angle to get a slicing cut. This probably helps lengthen the time between sharpening too. It doesn t help that the ends are perpendicular to the floor (it is about 6 long). It makes for a pretty uncomfortable position for any sort of planing but with the end grain particularly so because you don t have gravity and your weight helping to keep contact with the surface. Any sort of resistance can cause loss of cutting actions. I have also noticed that because the growth rings run in random directions that some of the boards in the glue up require me to change directions so that makes it even tougher.
> 
> - Lazyman


The sharper you can get the less grain reversal will effect you. It's a pain, I know, but my experience is that if you labor intently on the blade (slide a fingernail along the blade both from left-to-right and right-to-left … it should feel like glass with no detectable interruptions … also test for bur by shining a very bright light on the edge-sometimes a bur is not detectable by feel but is visible under very bright light), I can hit grain cathedrals, reversing grain, and rip grain, sometimes all in the same cut, without any problem.

*EDIT:* Though I see a custom shooting board in your future-one you can clamp onto the end of the table from the underside. I do that a lot-clamp jigs to the underside of a table to impart a reference to work to. Have you considered clamping a shooting board to the end of your table from the underside?


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> *SECOND EDIT:* I wonder if there is a more effective way to get the same results-that is, a fat honking single bevel that has no hollow and is mirror polished. Wheels (like on a Tormek) won t do it because they will impart a hollow (which to get rid of, you ll have to take it to the stones in the end anyways). How about those precision grinders they use to flatten plane soles? That seems like it would be rather overkill and I am not even sure how you would mount a plane iron in one of those things.
> 
> - DevinT


Worksharp.


----------



## DevinT

> Pretty much the only way I could get it to cut at all was to skew the angle to get a slicing cut. This probably helps lengthen the time between sharpening too. It doesn t help that the ends are perpendicular to the floor (it is about 6 long). It makes for a pretty uncomfortable position for any sort of planing but with the end grain particularly so because you don t have gravity and your weight helping to keep contact with the surface. Any sort of resistance can cause loss of cutting actions. I have also noticed that because the growth rings run in random directions that some of the boards in the glue up require me to change directions so that makes it even tougher.
> 
> - Lazyman
> 
> ...
> 
> *EDIT:* Though I see a custom shooting board in your future-one you can clamp onto the end of the table from the underside. I do that a lot-clamp jigs to the underside of a table to impart a reference to work to. Have you considered clamping a shooting board to the end of your table from the underside?
> 
> - DevinT


For example …

Here I am doing the opposite of what you want to do. The end of my "table" (*cough* ... sheet of 3/4" plywood) is already squared up-and as-such I can use it as a reference to cut this here Cocobolo.



















I am placing the saw against the table's edge to make sure the saw makes a straight cut























































I think the results speak for themselves:





































Not perfect, but sure as hell better than otherwise … I mean, it's a Ryoba … it's going to move without a guiding kerf.










But what I envision as perhaps working well for you is doing something similar but taking a shooting board of your own design made to fit that you clamp to the underside of the table to give yourself a platform to work off of and a reference edge to work to so you know the results are perfectly squared.


----------



## HokieKen

The more I try to think of a good solution to your problem Nathan, the less I come up with. Honestly in your situation, I think I'd clamp a guide to the top and use a circular saw to cut it off square. You'll want to keep the blade in the cut the whole time but the worst you have to loose is 1/4" or so off the length. Well worth the sacrifice IMO. And I imagine you can get it square and straight enough that you won't require any additional tuning with a plane.


----------



## DevinT

> ...
> *SECOND EDIT:* I wonder if there is a more effective way to get the same results-that is, a fat honking single bevel that has no hollow and is mirror polished. Wheels (like on a Tormek) won t do it because they will impart a hollow (which to get rid of, you ll have to take it to the stones in the end anyways). How about those precision grinders they use to flatten plane soles? That seems like it would be rather overkill and I am not even sure how you would mount a plane iron in one of those things.
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> Worksharp.
> 
> - HokieKen


Like this?

Work Sharp WSKTS-KO-W Knife & Tool Sharpener Ken Onion Edition=#


----------



## HokieKen

No, like this.


----------



## Ocelot

Nathan,

Whiteside 3019... and a lot of nerve.

I'm not recommending it. I don't know if you should use a bit that large outside of a table.

I think I have one, but I've never used it.


----------



## DevinT

> No, like this.
> 
> - HokieKen


Lots of reviewers reporting a wobble and potential "burning" of the blade (I would guess they actually mean inadvertent annealing?) because it is an air cooled high speed grinder instead of a slow speed water cooled grinder.

Here's a question …

I just realized that the sides of Tormek wheels can be used … but I don't see any jigs or holders for making that accurate. Is it possible to use the sides of the Tormek wheels to dress a hollow-less grind or to remove the hollow from a grind?

*EDIT:* I found this testimonial for the worksharp and it seems like a winner to me … (while I do have water in my garage, the spigot leaks and I hate using it, which leads to the next closest source of water up a flight of stairs … and carrying water down a flight of stairs does not sound fun)



> hi everyone,
> 
> I really like the WorkSharp. It makes lapping a chisel or plane iron very fast. Lapping seems to take the most time, that is to get the back flat. That is the biggest advantage of the Worksharp I have found so far. Neither the Jet or Tormek will lap or advertise they do.
> 
> I realize the edge may not be exactly 90 degrees, however, neither will a Tormek or Jet if the operator is not careful with his set up and his stone is not graded or manintained properly. Glass stays flat.
> 
> I do not recommend the belt sander idea, It creates a lot of excess heat and can depend on the operators expertise.
> 
> Also I do not like the inevitable mess of a water system, even a slow speed can slop water, and if water is not available in your shop, you have to carry it in and carefully pore it, and not exceed the water level, then dump it when you are done. Each step can lead to spills and dedicating a space away from other tools.
> 
> I use my WorkSharp on chisels and plane irons and am very pleased with the result and the speed I can achieve sharpening at. There is very little mess afterwards. I have just sharpened most of my tools and will let you know about re-honing in the future, but it looks easy to me.
> 
> Good Luck in finding a system that works for you. Nothing is perfect, but a combination of dry and wet systems might be.
> 
> David Elsey


Reference


----------



## HokieKen

It's actually a slow-speed air cooled grinder Devin. I have yet to destroy the temper on a blade. Though I certainly could if I tried. I keep a bowl of water nearby and dip the blade occasionally if I'm really grinding a lot. For just resharpening a blade though, it doesn't take long enough to get the blade hot. The percieved wobble, I believe, is a matter of the arbor hole and the outside diameter of some of the platens not being exactly concentric. However, I've measured the runout on the face of several platens on mine and never had one with significant TIR. And the arbor definitely runs true.

It's not a foolproof sharpening solution. But, it's my favorite by far. I recently added some CBN discs to mine. I'd marry it now.


----------



## RWE

> The more I try to think of a good solution to your problem Nathan, the less I come up with. Honestly in your situation, I think I d clamp a guide to the top and use a circular saw to cut it off square. You ll want to keep the blade in the cut the whole time but the worst you have to loose is 1/4" or so off the length. Well worth the sacrifice IMO. And I imagine you can get it square and straight enough that you won t require any additional tuning with a plane.
> 
> - HokieKen


I am a slow Jeopardy champion. Give me a few hours and I remember things. The guide around the bench top that I described was used by me with a circular saw, not a router. My bench is about 4-4.5 thick heart pine, Roubo style. So I could not cut in one pass.

I now have some timberframing friends that have those super large worm-drive circular saws and if I built another bench, I would use one of those.

I put White Oak ends on the bench, so I was not worried about beauty, just flat.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> ...
> *SECOND EDIT:* I wonder if there is a more effective way to get the same results-that is, a fat honking single bevel that has no hollow and is mirror polished. Wheels (like on a Tormek) won t do it because they will impart a hollow (which to get rid of, you ll have to take it to the stones in the end anyways). How about those precision grinders they use to flatten plane soles? That seems like it would be rather overkill and I am not even sure how you would mount a plane iron in one of those things.
> 
> - DevinT





> Worksharp.
> 
> - HokieKen


+1

This tapered blade had a *ahem* unique hollow grind on it when I received it. I still haven't removed all of it because I didn't want to lose that much blade length.










I used one of my worn-out sanding disks on the Worksharp and applied some green stick polishing compound to it to polish the back of the same blade. I count on all the abrasives being frangible and breaking down even smaller. It seems to work for me.


----------



## HokieKen

IIRC, when I cut the ends on my bench, I cut it using a circular saw on the top but couldn't cut all the way through. So then I cut from the end and removed the notch. Then I flipped it over and used a flush trim bit in my router to remove the rest. A big 10" circular saw would be the cleanest solution though.


----------



## DevinT

> It s actually a slow-speed air cooled grinder Devin. I have yet to destroy the temper on a blade. Though I certainly could if I tried. I keep a bowl of water nearby and dip the blade occasionally if I m really grinding a lot. For just resharpening a blade though, it doesn t take long enough to get the blade hot. The percieved wobble, I believe, is a matter of the arbor hole and the outside diameter of some of the platens not being exactly concentric. However, I ve measured the runout on the face of several platens on mine and never had one with significant TIR. And the arbor definitely runs true.
> 
> It s not a foolproof sharpening solution. But, it s my favorite by far. I recently added some CBN discs to mine. I d marry it now.
> 
> - HokieKen


Oh, cool!

Just looked up "CBN wheels for Worksharp" and found these (out of stock, of course).

What grits of CBN wheels did you get for your Worksharp?

I am accustomed to the Rob Cosman sharpening system (300/1000 Trend Diamond + 16000 Shapton), so I wonder with the Worksharp, I would theoretically never have to use the 1000 side of the Trend ever again and only ever have to use the 300 side of the Trend to flatten the Shapton between honing. Then I would just go straight from the 1200 CBN disc on the Worksharp to the 16000 Shapton to get that final mirror polished edge.

Or do they make a disc that can get mirror polish straight off the Worksharp?

*EDIT:* I am reading that in 2018 they (Worksharp) discontinued their accessory for honing blades wider than 2" on the Worksharp. This is most distressing as I believe the majority of my blades are wider than 2"


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Pretty much the only way I could get it to cut at all was to skew the angle to get a slicing cut. This probably helps lengthen the time between sharpening too. It doesn t help that the ends are perpendicular to the floor (it is about 6 long). It makes for a pretty uncomfortable position for any sort of planing but with the end grain particularly so because you don t have gravity and your weight helping to keep contact with the surface. Any sort of resistance can cause loss of cutting actions. I have also noticed that because the growth rings run in random directions that some of the boards in the glue up require me to change directions so that makes it even tougher.
> 
> EDIT: I wonder if that MF No. 7 skewed rabbet/block plane my wife is going to give me for Xmas would be any easier. Santa might have to come early.
> 
> - Lazyman


Got a course rasp?
Could try to rasp it flat then smooth with the plane.


----------



## HokieKen

I have that same set of 3 CBN discs that you linked Devin. There are micro-mesh abrasives== in 3200 and 6000 grit available for the Worksharp too for a mirror polish. Also a leather honing disc. I'm not sure how 6000 micro mesh compares to a 16000 shapton but it's ~4 microns. Looks like the Shapton is about 1 micron so you may still want to use that. For me, I don't even go to the micro-mesh most of the time.


----------



## HokieKen

> ....
> 
> *EDIT:* I am reading that in 2018 they (Worksharp) discontinued their accessory for honing blades wider than 2" on the Worksharp. This is most distressing as I believe the majority of my blades are wider than 2"
> 
> - DevinT


They did and it was utterly assinine. Fortunately, there are a lot of plans out there in the interwebs for Worksharp stations that put a platform level with the top of the machine so you can use the honing guide of your choice.

To be honest, without the platform, it's a much less useful machine IMO. The way they quit making all of the attachments kinda aggravates me still. Fortunately, mine came with them when I bought it used…


----------



## DevinT

> I have that same set of 3 CBN discs that you linked Devin. There are micro-mesh abrasives== in 3200 and 6000 grit available for the Worksharp too for a mirror polish. Also a leather honing disc. I m not sure how 6000 micro mesh compares to a 16000 shapton but it s ~4 microns. Looks like the Shapton is about 1 micron so you may still want to use that. For me, I don t even go to the micro-mesh most of the time.
> 
> - HokieKen


I wonder if one mirror edge is equivalent to another. What I do know is that the below edge fresh off the Shapton 16k tackled my Cocobolo like it was a hot knife through butter …










*NOTE:* That's a Veritas No 4 iron










In the lower-left corner of this photo you can see the types of shavings I was getting before rehone:










And then in this photo you can see what kind of shavings I was getting after a trip to the 16k Shapton:





































So I know a few things now …

1. Mirror polish good

2. 16k good

3. PM-V11 == good

Which combine to make Cocobolo easy to handle


----------



## RWE

> ....
> 
> *EDIT:* I am reading that in 2018 they (Worksharp) discontinued their accessory for honing blades wider than 2" on the Worksharp. This is most distressing as I believe the majority of my blades are wider than 2"
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> They did and it was utterly assinine. Fortunately, there are a lot of plans out there in the interwebs for Worksharp stations that put a platform level with the top of the machine so you can use the honing guide of your choice.
> 
> - HokieKen


Stumpy Numbs has a plan for a Worksharp station.

I put CBN wheels on my Rikkon 8 inch slow speed grinder. I created a jig for the slotted table (home made) that allows me to grind chisels and such with a 25 degree side grind on the side of the CBN wheel. Like Ken, whatever way you use CBN (pricey but great) they are pretty nice.

I square the edge of the iron or chisel, then side grind a flat bevel until the edge is almost gone. Then I go to the diamonds to finish it up.

On the wider plane irons, you cannot side grind (note: this is safe on CBN, but not conventional wheels) so I set the table at an angle and do a hollow grind.

So if you have a Worksharp, get CBN. If you don't, you can put them on a Grinder. I had the Wolverine system for lathe tools, so I had a good table for the grinder.


----------



## RichT

> I just realized that the sides of Tormek wheels can be used … but I don t see any jigs or holders for making that accurate. Is it possible to use the sides of the Tormek wheels to dress a hollow-less grind or to remove the hollow from a grind?
> 
> - DevinT


If you're looking for a Tormek-class system that grinds a flat bevel, check out the Sorby ProEdge.

I have a Tormek from 20 years ago or so. Frankly, I like the concave grind on the bevel. I have the WorkSharp which I find is the most convenient way to keep small blades like chisels sharp as I work. Nothing to set up, just a couple of touches and then back to cutting. I don't like it for wider blades though.

I also have a set of waterstones from Pride Abrasives that I use for my planes. Starting with the Tormek means less grinding away on the stones to get started and less steel to remove when I do go to the stones.

Yes, I'm a sharpening geek.

One option the Sorby offers is a pigtail mandrel for attaching a buffing wheel. I don't see the method mentioned often, but I do my final dressing on edges with my Beale Buffing System's white diamond wheel and compound. When I first read about the technique I was skeptical. How can a buffing wheel not round over the edge? Well, it doesn't, it just polishes it to a mirror finish, and sharper than I've ever achieved with a strop.


----------



## HokieKen

The higher you polish an edge, the keener it is Devin. The cutting edge is the intersection of 2 planes. The flatter and smoother those planes are, the sharper and more continuous the intersection is. Like most things though, it's a matter of finding the right balance. You can hone an edge to the point where even under microscopic investigation you can hardly find any voids or radii. But if you take a single swipe and that edge crumbles to where it looks just like an edge honed to 1000 grit then whatever time you spent honing beyond 1000 grit was spent for a single swipe of the plane.

It's kinda like a knife edge. Sure you can hone a razor sharp edge that can shave the fuzz off a peach without breaking the skin. But if you're going to then take that edge and use it to hack branches off a tree, you wasted a lot of time  On the other hand, if you need to shave your head and hone your razor on a soft arkansas stone then go straight to work, there's gonna be very little hair removal and a whole lotta bleeding…


----------



## DevinT

> I just realized that the sides of Tormek wheels can be used … but I don t see any jigs or holders for making that accurate. Is it possible to use the sides of the Tormek wheels to dress a hollow-less grind or to remove the hollow from a grind?
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> If you re looking for a Tormek-class system that grinds a flat bevel, check out the Sorby ProEdge.
> 
> I have a Tormek from 20 years ago or so. Frankly, I like the concave grind on the bevel. I have the WorkSharp which I find is the most convenient way to keep small blades like chisels sharp as I work. Nothing to set up, just a couple of touches and then back to cutting. I don t like it for wider blades though.
> 
> I also have a set of waterstones from Pride Abrasives that I use for my planes. Starting with the Tormek means less grinding away on the stones to get started and less steel to remove when I do go to the stones.
> 
> Yes, I m a sharpening geek.
> 
> One option the Sorby offers is a pigtail mandrel for attaching a buffing wheel. I don t see the method mentioned often, but I do my final dressing on edges with my Beale Buffing System s white diamond wheel and compound. When I first read about the technique I was skeptical. How can a buffing wheel not round over the edge? Well, it doesn t, it just polishes it to a mirror finish, and sharper than I ve ever achieved with a strop.
> 
> - Rich


Well, with an Amazon review like this:



> Robert Sorby ProEdge Plus Sharpening System was so disappointing! Setup was so easy, belt changes so simple, and even a cave man could use the attachments to obtain crisp razor sharp edges.
> 
> So, why disappointing? This sharpener is so easy to use that I sharpened all my chisels, knives, and other edged tools so quickly and with such wonderful edges, there was nothing else to do with it after a very short time of sharpening.
> 
> Disappointed for a good reason.


It's hard to discount this as "the ultimate solution"-I only get one or two purchases like this a year, and if it works as good as some folks claim, then it might have a chance in the running.


----------



## HokieKen

> If you re looking for a Tormek-class system that grinds a flat bevel, check out the Sorby ProEdge.
> 
> ....
> 
> - Rich


If money were no object and I could only have a single sharpening system for all of my tools, the ProEdge would get the call. I could replace my Worksharp and the grinder I have setup for lathe tools with that one machine. If I had known 5 years ago how much I would end up investing in various jigs in the long run, I probably could have convinced myself to pony up for the Sorby…


----------



## DevinT

> The higher you polish an edge, the keener it is Devin. The cutting edge is the intersection of 2 planes. The flatter and smoother those planes are, the sharper and more continuous the intersection is. Like most things though, it s a matter of finding the right balance. You can hone an edge to the point where even under microscopic investigation you can hardly find any voids or radii. But if you take a single swipe and that edge crumbles to where it looks just like an edge honed to 1000 grit then whatever time you spent honing beyond 1000 grit was spent for a single swipe of the plane.
> 
> It s kinda like a knife edge. Sure you can hone a razor sharp edge that can shave the fuzz off a peach without breaking the skin. But if you re going to then take that edge and use it to hack branches off a tree, you wasted a lot of time  On the other hand, if you need to shave your head and hone your razor on a soft arkansas stone then go straight to work, there s gonna be very little hair removal and a whole lotta bleeding…
> 
> - HokieKen


(nodding furiously)


----------



## RichT

Never mind. I misread the post.


----------



## DLK

> Still waiting on my CBN wheels for the worksharp to ship so no sharpening yet.
> 
> - Thedustydutchman


It seems the CBN wheels have been shipped, at least mine are. (O.K. the shipping label was created , but soon ….)


----------



## DevinT

> Never mind. I misread the post.
> 
> - Rich


Did not see what you wrote before, but I understand what I wrote about the Sorby might be taken as a negative-for clarification, the review I cherry-picked in my opinion is a glowingly positive review hilariously written in a sarcastic way to describe that the thing works so well that you'll have nothing left to sharpen.

I like that idea.

Who knows, maybe the tool should come with a warning that you'll be sharpening everything in-sight/on-site and then quickly start to asking to sharpen your friends' knives and your neighbors' tools. I mean, who doesn't want to own a sharpening system that's both fun and easy?

The additional thing I have to consider is raising a son-the cost seems reasonable ($450 for basic Sorby, $650 for PLUS model) if it pulls off the illusion of making the act of sharpening look easy, then it will have done its job. That is to explain that the money here is inconsequential because it can allow you to focus on using those results instead of being frustrated by attaining those results.

*EDIT:* Worth adding that I understand a lot of people are frustrated by sharpening. My own Veritas No 4 came to me for free from a neighbor because he was frustrated and I believe his exact words were "the whole affair seemed to be associated with sharpening" and he would rather maintain machine parts, and as-such owns a planer/thicknesser (separate). It took me time to learn how to get sharp, mostly by research, experience, and trial/error. Not a lot of people have patience for that unfortunately (case in-point). I have no illusions that my son will have the patience for it-who knows what his generation will have patience for-and I won't force him to learn how to sharpen, but I think it's worth trying to optimize the process for myself and in-doing so perhaps it becomes something he can do when he is older if he is interested in working with hand tools, is old enough to safely handle the instruments, and respects the tools.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm..Random Plane Photo time?









Well…maybe the cases as well…stacked and ready to head for the shelf…fancy plane gets the dovetailed corners,,plain plane gets the finger joints..









Will have to hide these from DonW…..Sargent (#79) made for Sears…No. 3720..









And….they both helped to build these boxes….BTW.


----------



## RichT

> Who knows, maybe the tool should come with a warning that you ll be sharpening everything in-sight/on-site and then quickly start to asking to sharpen your friends knives and your neighbors tools. I mean, who doesn t want to own a sharpening system that s both fun and easy?
> 
> - DevinT


I've considered replacing the Tormek with the Sorby many times, but I'm heavily invested in the Tormek. Back when I bought mine, none of these newer attachments were available, and as they've come out, I've dutifully purchased each and every one (minus the turning tool jigs since I'm not a turner).

Also, the original support bar lacked the micro adjust the current one has-so of course I had to upgrade it. Same with the advanced square edge jig.

So, yes, the Tormek has been a major money pit, but I have no regrets.


----------



## RichT

A little cornball humor while we're discussing Tormek. Mine is the model 2000, likely named for the Y2K hype at the time. It has the same 10" wheel that the T-8 sports.

Way back I posted on Rick's HOT DEALS thread that "I bought my Tormek 2000 years ago." Rick quickly replied and said he had no idea I was that old.

Anyway, I follow this thread because I am fascinated with the info on planes you folks provide. I generally have nothing to contribute since, although I use hand planes regularly, I am nowhere near your league regarding vintage tools and the amazing restorations I see you all do.

I mentioned the buffing of the edge earlier. Has anyone tried it? Like I said, I was skeptical but am impressed with the results.

Sadly, my electron microscope is out for calibration, otherwise it would be fun to do some edge analysis to compare the results.


----------



## Lazyman

Well I decided to resort to power planer to hog off the difference and then used a block plane to clean it up. It's not a glue joint and the flaws [ a couple of ridges from the planer and a gouge) will be hidden with the end cap which will be bolted on. This'll do.


----------



## RWE

I think the term for using the buffing wheel on an edge is called the "Unicorn" method. Bandit is a practitioner and I have also tried it as well as other LJ members.

I think the chief benefit is that the edge last longer, stays sharp longer.

Here are two YouTube videos

First video
Second video


----------



## Lazyman

I have the Sorby Proedge. I bought it mostly for turning tools and it is fantastic for that. I've started using it for quickly sharpening plane irons and chisels. My main complaint is that it is not variable speed. You have to be very careful to not over heat the edge, especially with a fine grit.


----------



## sansoo22

> I mentioned the buffing of the edge earlier. Has anyone tried it? Like I said, I was skeptical but am impressed with the results.
> 
> - Rich


I am a practitioner of the buffer and/or Unicorn method. It took a little getting used to but i've got the muscle memory down now. My edges went from shaving hair to effortlessly leaving bald spots on my arm. Like you barely even feel the iron touch your skin and its bald.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

> It seems the CBN wheels have been shipped, at least mine are. (O.K. the shipping label was created , but soon ….)
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> I got that email today as well! Woohoo!! I have many things waiting to be sharpened


----------



## HokieKen

I use something akin to the unicorn method on carving knives. I haven't ever tried it for planes or chisels. I'm a big fan of KISS when it comes to sharpening. That's why I use a single bevel and no back bevels or ruler tricks. I might be able to get a little better performance or longevity out of some blades. But to me it's not worth the effort of adding in additional steps to my process. Carving tools are the exception and they're a pain in my ass ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

.


----------



## DevinT

Oh my Santa!

Looks like a Christmas of "firsts"

My first transitional hand plane … a Sargent VBM no less.

Also my first DonW plane!





































The front knob was actually stripped when I received it. I packed the whole with wood filler and then reinstalled the knob. She is rock solid now.
































































The blade has a healthy camber which would make it excellent for scrub work … except I have no way of sharpening a cambered blade (can this be done by hand?) so I don't plan to use it.









































































But wait, there's more!

My first real block plane. A Craftsman affair. Very ingenious minimalist frog but the real gem is the single-point lateral adjustment lever that is also ingenious in its approach. It also happens to be my favorite color, green.


----------



## RichT

> I think the term for using the buffing wheel on an edge is called the "Unicorn" method. Bandit is a practitioner and I have also tried it as well as other LJ members.
> 
> I think the chief benefit is that the edge last longer, stays sharp longer.
> 
> Here are two YouTube videos
> 
> First video
> Second video
> 
> - RWE


Thanks for the links. I didn't know it had a name. It's just something I read somewhere, thought seemed sketchy, so I tried it and became a believer.

I knew it works, I just didn't have a clue why. The videos cleared that up.


----------



## DevinT

> I mentioned the buffing of the edge earlier. Has anyone tried it? Like I said, I was skeptical but am impressed with the results.
> 
> - Rich
> 
> I am a practitioner of the buffer and/or Unicorn method. It took a little getting used to but i ve got the muscle memory down now. My edges went from shaving hair to effortlessly leaving bald spots on my arm. Like you barely even feel the iron touch your skin and its bald.
> 
> - sansoo22


sansoo approved!


----------



## RWE

> I think the term for using the buffing wheel on an edge is called the "Unicorn" method. Bandit is a practitioner and I have also tried it as well as other LJ members.
> 
> I think the chief benefit is that the edge last longer, stays sharp longer.
> 
> Here are two YouTube videos
> 
> First video
> Second video
> 
> - RWE
> 
> Thanks for the links. I didn t know it had a name. It s just something I read somewhere, thought seemed sketchy, so I tried it and became a believer.
> 
> I knew it works, I just didn t have a clue why. The videos cleared that up.
> 
> - Rich


I keep a buffing wheel jig in my lathe (Penn State Industries, three wheel buffing jig) and so it is no problem to go through my routine and finish with the Unicorn step. CBN on a grinder to establish the bevel and get very close to sharp, then Diamonds, then Unicorn.

I wish I had the space for a sharpening station and dedicated buffers and such, but in my small shop, this works well.


----------



## sansoo22

I'm of the same mind as you RWE. I have a big shop rearrangement coming up when I build my miter saw station and assembly table. I'm hoping to have room on the multi purpose bench to setup a dedicated sharpening station. I'm thinking my 8" variable speed grinder with CBN wheel and a buff, along with 600, 1200, and 8k stones.

Just have to figure out which CBN wheel to get. I'm thinking a 180 grit mega square if that will also work to rehab/resquare irons from all the old crusty planes I restore.


----------



## donwilwol

@Devin, camber blades can definitely be sharpened by hand. I use a sideways motion so the curve follows the stone. Roll you're wrist, keeping the blade level (in other words your not rocking it like you may when your sharpening a very slight camber like on a smoother)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Devin, what Don Yoda said…

Also, even if you have a (cheapo) eclipse-style sharpening jig (like me), camber is do-able. This is what I do.

https://www.popularwoodworking.com/chris-schwarz-blog/camber-with-a-honing-guide/


----------



## RWE

> I m of the same mind as you RWE. I have a big shop rearrangement coming up when I build my miter saw station and assembly table. I m hoping to have room on the multi purpose bench to setup a dedicated sharpening station. I m thinking my 8" variable speed grinder with CBN wheel and a buff, along with 600, 1200, and 8k stones.
> 
> Just have to figure out which CBN wheel to get. I m thinking a 180 grit mega square if that will also work to rehab/resquare irons from all the old crusty planes I restore.
> 
> - sansoo22


I got the 180 and the 350 mega squares. I am told that if you get a 600, you can almost pass on even doing the diamonds, just come off the CBN and go to work.

However, I rarely use the 180. I work off of the 350 since most of my irons and chisels are already beveled and such. Since you do a lot of refurb work, the 180 might be your best bet, but I like going from the 350 to diamonds and it might be a better grit as far as being more universal if you only get one. Woodturners Wonders sells a relatively inexpensive i inch wide 180 wheel and I started to get that and the 350. Check their site.


----------



## corelz125

I have one of those green craftsman block planes. Think Sansoo has one also.


----------



## sansoo22

This one is for Kenny. This little MF 07 should look familiar…or maybe not…it wasn't this shiny when I got it.


----------



## sansoo22

> I have one of those green craftsman block planes. Think Sansoo has one also.
> 
> - corelz125


I do have one…very good memory Corelz!


----------



## RichT

> This one is for Kenny. This little MF 07 should look familiar…or maybe not…it wasn t this shiny when I got it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - sansoo22


That's a thing of beauty. You really are a master. My hat's off to you.


----------



## sansoo22

> That s a thing of beauty. You really are a master. My hat s off to you.
> 
> - Rich


Thanks for the kind words Rich, I really appreciate it.

Now if only I spent as much time woodworking as I do restoring woodworking tools I might actually get good at making things.


----------



## RichT

> Thanks for the kind words Rich, I really appreciate it.
> 
> Now if only I spent as much time woodworking as I do restoring woodworking tools I might actually get good at making things.
> 
> - sansoo22


There's a future for you. Take a look at Florip, or Badaxe. Maybe someday I'll regret not buying a Sansoo restoration back when they cost less than a Rolex.


----------



## HokieKen

> This one is for Kenny. This little MF 07 should look familiar…or maybe not…it wasn t this shiny when I got it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - sansoo22


Hubba Hubba! That looks fantastic man! I don't usually spend much time on block planes but maybe I need to see if I can match that… I swapped lever caps before I sent that one to you so I could have the shinier one. Now you have the shinier one. I just can't win ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Between that #07 and Mafe's crate tool, I'm gonna have to start making time somewhere in my schedule for tool rehabs. I used to get up an hour earlier than I do these days. I may make it my new year's resolution to start doing that again so I can spend an hour a day working on the umpteen tools I have requiring rehab work to some degree or other. I have at least 4 of my MF bench planes that I want to replace the furniture on and/or repaint and polish up. Three of those will need brass hardware and adjuster nuts. I have the 9/32-24 LH tap on my Christmas list  Several old hatchets/hammers/axes needing some grinder work and new handles, half dozen or so Perfect Handle screwdrivers needing scales. A crate tool. And the list goes on…

Maybe I should quit trying to make things and just play with the things used to make things…


----------



## drsurfrat

> Maybe I should quit trying to make things and just play with the things used to make things…
> - HokieKen


You know you're in deep when you make a tool to make a tool to do a job. I imagine Kenny's gone at least one level deeper.


----------



## HokieKen

There are very few tasks I perform that I don't think of at least one thing I could make that would make the task at hand easier/better/more efficient. If left to my own devices, my shop would probably be an entirely self-contained ecosystem where everything I made was made in the shop and for the shop. Fortunately I have friends and family who make sure at least a few things make it to the outside world every year ;-)


----------



## Ocelot

Devin,

Paul Sellers has video on sharpening cambered irons freehand. He uses a "figure of eight" motion (his phrase).

In the video about converting a 78 to a scrub he shows this technique. Also, scrubs, he said, don't have to be so very sharp as a smoother.

-Paul


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Also, scrubs, he said, don t have to be so very sharp as a smoother.
> 
> -Paul
> 
> - Ocelot


That's very, very true. This, as rough as it is, was up to the scrub task on some softwood this morning.


----------



## Notw

Does anyone have a chart showing the physical dimensions of Stanley planes No. 1 - No 8 with all half and quarter sizes. All my googling can find is the lengths with blade width and not total width.

I want to start thinking about designing a plane till but my collection is not complete yet.


----------



## HokieKen

I bet DonW or drsurfrat do. And if not, I bet there's at least a dozen people here who can measure em for ya  I can measure all the sizes for you in the Millers Falls flavor if not. They were direct copies of Stanley's models and are probably pretty close on footprint though I'm sure there are some minor deviations.


----------



## Notw

the only ones' i don't have that i need dimensions for are the No. 8, No. 2 and No. 1


----------



## DevinT

Re: Scrub not needing to be as sharp as a smoother

I have a policy against using any tool I cannot sustainably maintain (either myself or in some other means)

*EDIT:* Which often translates to first learning how to maintain it before using it so that when use degrades it I can restore it to previous good state


----------



## RWE

> Does anyone have a chart showing the physical dimensions of Stanley planes No. 1 - No 8 with all half and quarter sizes. All my googling can find is the lengths with blade width and not total width.
> 
> I want to start thinking about designing a plane till but my collection is not complete yet.
> 
> - Notw


I have a Bedrock 608, very early Flatrock.

It is 24 inches long, 3 1/8 inches wide. I would assume Stanley made the Bedrocks and the regular Stanleys the same size.

Devin, help Notw out and post the size of your #8 to verify.


----------



## DevinT

> the only ones i don t have that i need dimensions for are the No. 8, No. 2 and No. 1
> 
> - Notw


My [T11] No 8 measures about 3 5/32" wide and about 23 27/32" long


----------



## DevinT

Anybody else look at this early Stanley Rule & Level hand plane and start to think … that looks awfully familiar.


----------



## DevinT

Wow, didn't think I'd see one of these actually appear for sale.

See:

Wranglerstar, Dec 20, 2019

Matt Estlea, Dec 18, 2020

Rob Cosman, May 4, 2021

Rob Cosman, Jul 21, 2021


----------



## sansoo22

NotW - Type 15 #2 is 7-9/16" x 1-15/16"


----------



## DevinT

Interesting, ... I came across a "Steers Patent Plane" and now I'm wondering … hmmm, ... what if you took a standard corrugated bottom sole plane and infilled the grooves with rosewood.










You know, for S&G


----------



## KentInOttawa

the only ones i don t have that i need dimensions for are the No. 8, No. 2 and No. 1

- Notw
[/QUOTE]Whenever I feel the need to know, I check out Patrick's Blood and Gore Planes #1 - #8C


----------



## HokieKen

You'd have a hard time filling in the typical corrugations Devin. They are kinda like cylinders that taper in all directions and curve from end to end. And they're far from identical. You'd have better luck taking a smooth sole and milling the grooves out.


----------



## donwilwol

> Does anyone have a chart showing the physical dimensions of Stanley planes No. 1 - No 8 with all half and quarter sizes. All my googling can find is the lengths with blade width and not total width.
> 
> I want to start thinking about designing a plane till but my collection is not complete yet.
> 
> - Notw


I know blood and gore uses the blade size for width, but you can pull the length, keeping in mind they changed slightly from time to time


----------



## sansoo22

never mind Don W beat me to it


----------



## DevinT

> You d have a hard time filling in the typical corrugations Devin. They are kinda like cylinders that taper in all directions and curve from end to end. And they re far from identical.  You d have better luck taking a smooth sole and milling the grooves out.
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks for the reality check (and saving me the money from buying a C plane to find this out)


----------



## bandit571

That "Amazon" plane looks a wee bit to much like what Lowes sells as a Kobalt #4…..I tried for 1 week to get it to act like a #4 should…..then went back to Lowes and got my $40 back….I can pick up better ones at yard sales.

Is a #5-1/4 the same width as a #3?

Are the No. 4-1/2, No. 5-1/2 and a No. 6, No.7 all the same width? Since they all use the same iron.

A No. 4 is the same width as a No. 5

Somewhere under my bench, on the back of the "Ready Rack" of planes…there is a Sargent No. 3416 Jack plane.


----------



## Notw

Thank you!


----------



## DevinT

I am sure that the Amazon Basics hand plane is thoroughly horrible.

In other news, I have been researching the Robert Sorby Pro Edge and other than the pre-described angles and the support rod for fingernail sharpening, it looks to be very similar to my Bucktool

Here are the belts I have for it:

M-jump 12 Pcs 4 x 36 Inch Aluminum Oxide Sanding Belt (P60, P80, P120, P150, P240, and P400; 2x belts per grit)

4 X 36 Inch Silicon Carbide Extra Fine Grit Sanding Belts 600, 800, 1000 Grits, 6 Pack Assortment (2x belts per grit)

Red Label Abrasives 2 X 36 Inch Knife Sharpening Sanding Belts - 1000, 1200, 1500, 5000 Grits - 4 Pack Assortment (1x belt per grit)

*ASIDE:* I also recently found out that I can get a Trizact belt for it (it's like Cubitron for your bench sander, for polishing metal)

My research tells me that I *should* be able to do this with my Bucktool and the above collection of belts, right?

I mean, Sorby is absolutely better, and offers more types of belts (*cough* like a diamond belt *cough*), but I'd rather not dump another $1k on a system (assuming that the $500 entry price just gets you started with the Pro Edge system) if I can make the one I have work for me.

I just haven't tested my setup for sharpening yet because I found this video implies that you really want to modify it to install a fireplace ceramic platen-which he doesn't go into any details about.

*EDIT:* After watching this video and this video I actually think that the reason they are adding those platens has nothing to do with heat but to create plunge lines on knives. Hmmm, I think maybe this is a green light to just use the equipment I already have and see how it turns out.

*SECOND EDIT:* One reviewer on the Red Label belts (2×36) recommended buying two sets and doubling-up to get to 4" width … not a bad idea! (considering they don't sell them in 4×36)


----------



## Ocelot

Diamond belt sounds like something Elvis (or Liberace) would have worn atwinkle in the spotlight.


----------



## DevinT

> Diamond belt sounds like something Elvis (or Liberace) would have worn atwinkle in the spotlight.
> 
> - Ocelot


LoL!


----------



## Lazyman

Devin, before I bought the Proedge, I made my own belt sander, including making indexed tool rest and fingernail gouge attachments based upon theirs. If I hadn't built the sander just for fun, I would have bought one and added similar attachments to it. Only reason I don't still use it for sharpening is because Rockler put the Proedge on sale for over $100 off and I couldn't resist.


----------



## Mosquito

> Are the No. 4-1/2, No. 5-1/2 and a No. 6, No.7 all the same width? Since they all use the same iron.
> 
> - bandit571


Depends on when the 5-1/2 was made. Many earlier ones from at least a few manufacturers had a 2-1/4" iron that was only in the 5-1/2. I know I ran in to this with both my Ohio made Keen Kutter and my Type 11 Stanley 5-1/2. But otherwise, in most of my experience yes (Keen Kutter and Stanley)


----------



## HokieKen

My Millers Falls 15 which is the 5-1/2 equivalent has a 2-1/4" iron too. According to Blood and Gore, Stanley changed from 2-1/4 to 2-3/8 in 1939.


----------



## Johnny7

.


----------



## Johnny7

> Diamond belt sounds like something Elvis (or Liberace) would have worn atwinkle in the spotlight.
> 
> - Ocelot


I thought it described a geographical region on the African continent where the diamond mines are the most numerous.

(must resist urge to comment on the use of the word "atwinkle")

- Johnny7


----------



## HokieKen

> Diamond belt sounds like something Elvis (or Liberace) would have worn atwinkle in the spotlight.
> 
> - Ocelot
> 
> I thought it described a geographical region on the African continent where the diamond mines are the most numerous.
> 
> - Johnny7


I thought it was what I would have got my ass whipped with had my parents been wealthy.


----------



## ac0rn

" I thought it was what I would have got my ass whipped with had my parents been wealthy."

Growing up my parents had a razor strop hanging up high in the kitchen pantry closet. It was used twice. When your Dad gets home your all getting spanked (three of us 8, 6, and 4). He would sit on the couch and tell us to get the strap, We had to use a chair to reach it. Brought it to Dad, "now turn around and pull down your pants". It became very quiet, in our anticipation we were tense and wound up. He would snap the two leathers for a loud snap, we nearly jumped out of our skin. Then we each got a light smack on the bottom. "Okay, pull up your pants, turn around" "What do you say?" "Sorry Mom" then we would have to say "Thank you" and put the strap back up on the hook. I'm sure my folks had a difficult time keeping a straight face, and giggled about it later. We laugh about it now, and would tell friends about our trials.


----------



## DLK

> Does anyone have a chart showing the physical dimensions of Stanley planes No. 1 - No 8 with all half and quarter sizes. All my googling can find is the lengths with blade width and not total width.
> 
> I want to start thinking about designing a plane till but my collection is not complete yet.
> 
> - Notw
> 
> I know blood and gore uses the blade size for width, but you can pull the length, keeping in mind they changed slightly from time to time
> 
> - Don W


You can more or less use this chart which compares Millers Falls to Stanley.


----------



## donwilwol

> Does anyone have a chart showing the physical dimensions of Stanley planes No. 1 - No 8 with all half and quarter sizes. All my googling can find is the lengths with blade width and not total width.
> 
> I want to start thinking about designing a plane till but my collection is not complete yet.
> 
> - Notw
> 
> I know blood and gore uses the blade size for width, but you can pull the length, keeping in mind they changed slightly from time to time
> 
> - Don W
> 
> You can more or less use this chart which compares Millers Falls to Stanley.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I forgot about this ( I'm getting old!)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nm


----------



## Notw

Here is what I have so far, need to go through and type them all, but that is a task for another day


----------



## DevinT

Santa is going to need a *big* box


----------



## theoldfart

Oo oo, bubbles. And blue painters tape! Good omens.

Lotta stuff there Devin. Is Devin the feminine version of Kevin? Of course I could have it backwards, Kevin is the male version of Devin. Hmmm beers working, it's all so clear now.

Oh yea, just shipped mine. Bad idea to wait so long, line was out the door.


----------



## DevinT

> Oo oo, bubbles. And blue painters tape! Good omens.
> 
> Lotta stuff there Devin. Is Devin the feminine version of Kevin? Of course I could have it backwards, Kevin is the male version of Devin. Hmmm beers working, it's all so clear now.
> 
> - theoldfart


I've seen both males and females named Devon/Devin.


----------



## DevinT

Phew. I feel like a magician










*EDIT:* Now, only if I could remember who it is for and where to send it


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, I was contemplating using my big furniture clamps on mine for a while. Finally just got a bigger box!

Safer.


----------



## corelz125

Burly Bob recently bought a #1. Maybe the SMittysonian of Stanley has a #1 he seems to have all the planes we dream about.


----------



## Notw

> Burly Bob recently bought a #1. Maybe the SMittysonian of Stanley has a #1 he seems to have all the planes we dream about.
> 
> - corelz125


Smittysonian LOL that's great


----------



## controlfreak

Buster Brown has a Santa box and is heading North. It was fun but it is also nice to be finished.


----------



## theoldfart

CF, have a beer, you earned it!


----------



## drsurfrat

My No 8 is 3+1/8 in. wide
My No 2 is 1+7/8 in wide.
By extrapolation, the No1 should be about 1+1/4 and 2/8 more = 1+3/4 in wide.
As you know Leach's pages have the lengths, but my older (type8 and before) No 7's and No 8's were half an inch shorter that what he calls out.

PS: wow, I am late to the party…


----------



## sansoo22

Learned another valuable lesson about applying finishes today. If you live in the midwest check the weather report. We went from 53 deg and 30% humidity yesterday to 76 deg and 63% humidity today. Normally I will bring my plane handles in from the shop if I know mother nature is going to throw a hissy fit. But I got lazy since things had been so normal for a couple weeks and didn't check. Shop dehumidifier filled up overnight and this morning was reading 71%...I emptied it first thing this morning but damage was already done. A couple sets of plane handles flaked on me.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mike, my measures didn't match up w/ the table above either.


----------



## HokieKen

Lotta santa loads leaving today  I think that leaves us with only one left to be shipped and he said his will go out this week


----------



## corelz125

Dropped mine off at the post office Monday night. Kevin you could avoid the line at the post office by using pirateship.com. Just buy the label there and print it.


----------



## drsurfrat

> Mike, my measures didn't match up w/ the table above either.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


+/- 1/32" close enough for a plane till?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hell, 1/4" is a tight tolerance for a till, imho.

BTW, what is this Smittysonian place? I have users, I'm not a collector.

;-)


----------



## rad457

Pulled out a Plane today almost as old as Bandit or was that TOF still able to shave sum Ash!


----------



## MikeB_UK

That's not an old plane 

Shaving some yew


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, Mike! Same bones on these planes. What's yours?


----------



## donwilwol

i've updated my spreadsheet

Plane - Length - Width
No. 1 - 5 3/4" x 1 1/2" 
No. 2 - 7 5/8" x 1 15/16"
No. 3 - 8 3/4" x 2 1/8"
No. 5 1/4" - 11 7/16" x 2 1/8"
No. 4 - 9 3/8" x 2 3/8"
No. 4 1/2 - 10 15/16" x 2 13/16"
No. 5 - 14" x 2 7/16"
No. 5 1/2 - 15 1/8" x 3"
No. 6 - 17 11/16" x 2 7/8"
No. 7 - 21 15/16" x 2 7/8"
No. 8 - 23 7/8" x 3 1/8"


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ those were the numbers I was seeing too, Don.


----------



## controlfreak

Greensboro, NC this morning. Santa didn't get very far last night.


----------



## Notw

Hmm, now I'm curious, going to have to re-measure tonight make sure I didn't make a mistake


----------



## adot45

> Hmm, now I m curious, going to have to re-measure tonight make sure I didn t make a mistake
> 
> - Notw


Which one(s) Notw? I"m only missing the No. 1 I can measure mine for you.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Wow, Mike! Same bones on these planes. What's yours?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Well, the Iron is James Wales & Sons.
Given the shape of the tote & body (and lack of markings) the plane itself was probably made by Mathieson.

I'm confident it's been a bit frankenplaned over the years, especially as it had a homemade adjuster that looked based on the shelton (and in no way fit the iron) when I got it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sharpening Day!


----------



## sansoo22

Im envious of those windows in front of the bench. I once had decent natural light in my shop…then Meth Head Johnny let himself him. He found out I am armed and angry but since then I've boarded up all the windows. I need to do some rearranging and then I can make some secure shutters for them and get back to letting a little of the outdoors in while I'm out there.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That sux, Sansoo. I'd hate to not have my widows. Used to be smaller and higher, swapped those leaky bastards out years ago now.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

More sharpening.

.









Put this off too long.


----------



## RWE

Before Jon Hall passed (mitre box expert if you don't know him), he posed a question for the mitre box thread:
*
What would be the most important feature you would need in a workshop if the Zombie Apocalypse hit and we lost power and the Zombies were running amok?*

Since I work in a "cave", a basement room on an extension to our home, I immediately correctly answered Jon's question. Windows.

Everything I do is under fluorescent or LED tubes lighting. The fact that it is heated and air conditioned from the main house's systems mitigates this issue. In the deep south and no air conditioning, it could be a problem.

Fortunately, no Zombies or Meth heads so far.


----------



## drsurfrat

My Secret Santa box came today! I'm gonna put it under the tree and wait 'til Christmas.

Yea, right.

TedT2 sent it and it even included a Christmas card. It is a gigantic panel raiser (razer?) with a massive tapered and skewed blade. That tiny little iron next to it is a 2" No5 blade. It's all wood apart from the single iron, but weighs *5 lbs.* This is going to be fun. It is very solid and clean with a beautiful even patina, and I don't even have to sharpen it.


----------



## DLK

Isn't it a badger plane?


----------



## RWE

That is pretty. Does it allow angles on the cut side or does it create a flat surround on the panel.. In looking at it in the pictures, am guessing that the cut is flat, but can't be sure from the pictures.

Historically, I am not sure if angled sides around a raised panel is a modern thing or not.


----------



## HokieKen

Wow, that's a great Santa package Mike  Well done Santa Ted!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Beautiful tool!


----------



## DevinT

Wow, 5 pounds! That's hefty! Very nice tool indeed.


----------



## drsurfrat

> Isn t it a badger plane?
> - Combo Prof


Sure? I have no idea. The quick search has badgers planes without stops. otherwise, it matches.
Bode has one he calls a panel raiser. Mine is a simple 90 degree rabbet, no other profile.


----------



## sansoo22

Beautiful plane! Reminds me a little of the massive moulding plane Frank Klausz made.


----------



## TedT2

So glad it made it safe. That thing is an absolute beast and that iron is huge. I hope you enjoy it!


----------



## bandit571

While out and about, today, decided to check out my usual Antique Mall here in town…

Complete with OEM box…a Worthington #4..quite minty, too….and made by Millers Falls…@ $25 + tax….

There is also a Minty Millers Falls No. 8 sitting on another shelf….also $25…..

However..there is one little plane that I will be going back to get….film tomorrow afternoon, after some errands…

ps: there is also a Stanley No. 35…....and another "4-Edge" Handy Plane with original box…..


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Isn t it a badger plane?
> - Combo Prof
> 
> Sure? I have no idea. The quick search has badgers planes without stops. otherwise, it matches.
> "Bode" has one he calls a panel raiser. Mine is a simple 90 degree rabbet, no other profile.
> 
> - drsurfrat


As far as I know a badger is a panel raiser - with none of the optional bits, so no fence, stop or nicker.


----------



## Johnny7

> Isn t it a badger plane?
> - Combo Prof
> 
> Sure? I have no idea. The quick search has badgers planes without stops. otherwise, it matches.
> "Bode" has one he calls a panel raiser. Mine is a simple 90 degree rabbet, no other profile.
> 
> - drsurfrat
> 
> As far as I know a badger is a panel raiser - with none of the optional bits, so no fence, stop or nicker.
> 
> - MikeB_UK


Some old texts describe a badger plane, as nothing more than a rabbet plane with a top (rather than side) escapement (opening through which shavings are ejected)


----------



## TedT2

I never could figure out exactly what it was. I called it a badger but never could find anything quite like it. I spent some time looking but obviously not in the right place. It is unique.


----------



## theoldfart

And a Butcher iron too boot. Amazing gift, well done Ted.

Did I just say well done Ted? Oh my!


----------



## TedT2

> And a Butcher iron too boot. Amazing gift, well done Ted.
> 
> Did I just say well done Ted? Oh my!
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart
> 
> That Butcher iron has an awesome stamp too.


----------



## DLK

"badger" sounds so much cooler than "panel raiser".

See this article. .
If I understand it correctly bager planes are panel raising planes. The difference may be that The mortise of a badger is not only skewed, it's rotated 10 degrees about its vertical axis. Simple badger planes have no fence or depth stop.


----------



## bandit571

About like the way I use a #4 plane to raise a panel? Like Paul Sellers does….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Like the way I've used a #78 to raise a panel?

https://www.lumberjocks.com/Smitty_Cabinetshop/blog/24504










Can use just about anything, it's not hard to do when sharp is present, but that 5 lb plane just drips with coolness.


----------



## bandit571

A little "ME" time, today….rather than spend the $100 to fix the external hard drive, AND then spend another for a new one to download the data into….decided to save a bit of cash…









Might still need to buy a new hard drive, but…









This was just next door to the computer repair shop, and was calling my name…









Needs a bit of work, but the sole doesn't look too hateful..









Shouldn't take too long to do…for size reference ..









It's little brother that Santa MOS had sent….


----------



## controlfreak

My Santa plane has arrived at someone's front door this morning, hoping the bubble wrap did it's job. I was trying to emulate Sansoo22 style of making it shinny. I said something to that effect to Josh when he reveled that he was Sansoo22. I get very twisted up between screen handles and real names.

Since it has arrived I figure it is time to show off the the fine No. 3 I received from Sansoo22, he never disappoints.


















Ironically I already have two of his restored planes so this makes three. Of course I had to give it a pre Christmas Test drive. Thank you Josh on another fine job!


----------



## HokieKen

Wow that thing's got some sexy on it CF


----------



## RWE

I figure with the name Controlfreak, that you exercised some control on Kenny so that you could get Sansoo to be your secret Santa.

Beautiful plane. I work "small", boxes and such, and I love a #3.

What type is that one?


----------



## corelz125

My box showed up today from control freak. This one might have to stay inside the house instead of out in the garage. It's too shiny to let it get rust on it.


----------



## Ocelot

Oh man! You guys are pretty good at playing Santa!


----------



## sansoo22

That looks very nice! Controlfreak did a fantastic job on that restoration.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice work CF! Trying to copy the Sansoo planes you have? ;-)



> I figure with the name Controlfreak, that you exercised some control on Kenny so that you could get Sansoo to be your secret Santa.
> ...
> 
> - RWE


If I weren't so virtuous, I would have auctioned off that name assignment ;-)


----------



## sansoo22

Not a Secret Santa plane but one I did pickup for myself for Christmas.










My first LN plane! It's impressive but for whatever reason I still prefer old planes. But Stanley never made a #97-1/2 so LN it is.


----------



## HokieKen

I hate those bronze castings so much. It looks like something that belongs in a 70's porno. It does look mighty damn useful though ;-)


----------



## controlfreak

> Not a Secret Santa plane but one I did pickup for myself for Christmas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My first LN plane! It s impressive but for whatever reason I still prefer old planes. But Stanley never made a #97-1/2 so LN it is.
> 
> - sansoo22


I have a Stanley chisel plane but not really sure where to use it. What are you going sick that purdy plane on?


----------



## HokieKen

I have a sorta similar (though much more simplistic) Veritas bull nose plane. I don't use it often at all but it's fantastic for cleaning up inside corners of boxes after gluing up box joints or dovetails.


----------



## DLK

.


----------



## DLK

My secret santa box arrived today, but I don't know who sent it, maybe it says inside the box. I will exercise restraint and open it on the 24 or 25. Who lives in Sound Beach N.Y. ? Corelz ?


----------



## theoldfart

Don, send me the combination.


----------



## HokieKen

> My secret santa box arrived today, but I don t know who sent it, maybe it says inside the box. I will exercise restraint and open it on the 24 or 25. Who lives in Sound Beach N.Y. ? Corelz ?
> 
> - Combo Prof


Nope, not Corelz. If there's not a note inside and your santa doesn't speak up, I'll spill the beans ;-)


----------



## defrosted

Anyone care to guess the age or type of this millers falls 9 being auctioned? has a black frog so not everyone will be impressed with it, but it looks pretty good and comes with a box…


----------



## bandit571

1945-1949? 2nd type 2 era…just before the Type 4s came out….


----------



## corelz125

Nope not from me. I never even heard of sound beach. USPS is doing another fine job allegedly priority arrives in 1-3 days . I dropped it off Monday hopefully it should be there tomorrow.


----------



## DLK

My secret santa box arrived today, but I don't know who sent it, maybe it says inside the box. I will exercise restraint and open it on the 24 or 25. Who lives in Sound Beach N.Y. ? Corelz ?


> Don, send me the combination.
> 
> - theoldfart


A little early but O.K. .... 708


----------



## DLK

> Anyone care to guess the age or type of this millers falls 9 being auctioned? has a black frog so not everyone will be impressed with it, but it looks pretty good and comes with a box…
> 
> - defrosted


It looks to me to be a Type 4. (1953 - 1966). I like this type. I would bid on it.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, Don has it. Type 4 with brass nuts on knob and tote, solid depth adjuster and black frog. I don't like much about type 4s in terms of appearance but they're just as good a user as any other.

It's probably a $30-40 plane. Box adds another $10 or so.


----------



## ac0rn

> My secret santa box arrived today, but I don t know who sent it, maybe it says inside the box. I will exercise restraint and open it on the 24 or 25. Who lives in Sound Beach N.Y. ? Corelz ?
> 
> - Combo Prof


I don't know who it is, but they are 30 minutes from Connetquot River Preserve. A spectacular place!


----------



## theoldfart

Will use it on December 24'th Don, figured you'd be busy before the holidays.


----------



## theoldfart

Will use it on December 24'th Don, figured you'd be busy before the holidays.


----------



## DLK

No not busy. Just going stay at home with the wife.


----------



## HokieKen

I am amazed by the restraint shown with some of these packages!


----------



## DLK

Without the restraint I'd have nothing to open for the 25th. But perhaps I should open it for Winter Solstice. Dec 21. I'll see what the wife says.


----------



## bandit571

Ever hear tell of "American Tool & Foundry"? Seems I also have a 102 sized plane, except…

It is about an inch longer than a Stanley #102…

Cap iron is held in place by a bolt, as there isn't a rod across.

Iron is the same width as the #102….mouth opening is twice that of the #102 ….a block plane as a scrub?

At one time…I thought I had a Stanley 103….and a #203…..will have see…Laundry Detail, today…


----------



## Lazyman

Or Festivus: December 23rd. Of course the Airing of Grievances might come back to bite me.


----------



## HokieKen

Two more to go then just gotta make em pretty.


----------



## theoldfart

Our grandson stayed over last night. Went straight to the tree, scoped everything out, took his inventory.

Can I open mine now?

Nope!

Why?

'Cuz.

maybe just…….

No.

The Grinch is back. ;-)


----------



## controlfreak

I always made the kids wait until Christmas morning, more magic that way. Wife said when she was young Santa came on Christmas eve. I said different Santa, different rules. I miss leaving snacks for Santa, still disappointed she opposed leaving Santa a beer.


----------



## corelz125

We had to make sure the planes arrived in one piece and no damage was done. You only have so many days to file a claim for damages.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Santa's sleigh (USPS Truck) seems to be stuck outside of Cincinnati. Ugh. Still should be there by Christmas, but hate the delay.


----------



## DevinT

The carrier could drop my package from 3 stories up and it would still arrive perfectly as I sent it. I don't trust the carriers this year.

In other news, I was on the fence to buy a Robert-Sorby Pro Edge Plus when …

I discovered Axminster Trade Ultimate Edge

Video

From what I can tell from research, the Axminster puts the Sorby to shame for the same price and the Axminster is actually designed to sharpen planes, chisels, and spokeshaves whereas the Sorby is basically for turning tools.

I think the Axminster may be the game changer I have been looking for.


----------



## ac0rn

Well Santa did arrive early. A brand new Grand daughter, 8 pound 3 oz Kara Quinn.


----------



## HokieKen

Congratulations Jeff!!


----------



## HokieKen

I got these chisels a few years ago in a lot with some Bergs I was after. I've come to like them a lot for fine paring type work.









They're Sweedish made by Torshalla Smide.









But they're kinda odd in that they have uneven bevels. My cutting edges are squared up but you can see the bevels are wider on one side. Anyone ever seen chisels beveled like that? Just curious if there is a specific intent. Maybe the edge was originally skewed?

Also I was unable to find anything about Torshalla Smide other than a few forum threads where other people were looking for information about them too with no luck. So if you know anything, gracious


----------



## sansoo22

Very interesting chisels. My Google search yielded almost nothing. Torshalla is a city in Sweden where Eskilstuna Steel was once located and Smide is the swedish word for forge. So you have chisels forged in Torshalla which are most likely made of very high quality Eskilstuna steel.

Edit: Forgot Jill's brother lives in Sweden and is a woodworker. I will ask him if he knows anything about them. Although its not likely as most of his vintage tools come from me.


----------



## DevinT

Jeff, Congratulations!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Congrats, Jeff!


----------



## corelz125

Congratulations Jeff.
I'm looking for the sharpening system that sharpens everything while I'm asleep. Once you have the bevel established and just need touching up. I have no complaints about the worksharp it's quick and easy.


----------



## bandit571

Congrats to Jeff!

Trying to get the left shoulder to move a bit better, without that needled pain…..good thing I'm right handed…


----------



## theoldfart

Welcome Kara Quinn and congrats Jeff and family.


----------



## theoldfart

Dave, looks like Brown ran into some "logistics" issue. Web says a delay but it is in Albuquerque!


----------



## donwilwol

Congratulations Jeff!!

Now theres a reason to open the presents early. Just say they're birthday presents for Kara Quinn, but you're holding them till she's older!!


----------



## donwilwol

Congratulations Jeff!!

Now theres a reason to open the presents early. Just say they're birthday presents for Kara Quinn, but you're holding them till she's older!!


----------



## theoldfart

Still unopened

Please tell Santa I be good!


----------



## Lazyman

Congratulations Jeff. No USPS delays for that delivery.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Congrats Jeff.

You're fooling no one Kev that box has been empty since you got the combination


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thanks for the update, Kevin. I have a six-pack of wine that was supposed to be delivered today too that's delayed until Monday. But I got the air cleaner I bought from Lee Valley via brown today, which wasn't supposed to be here until Monday.


----------



## corelz125

Couple new additions to the plane family. Stanley four square 5 1/4 and Sargent 409 that would give Bandit some competition for a bargain deal. Some mixed parts on the Sargent. Has a sweetheart iron, also has a steel knob on it. The lever cap was also ground down.


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, if it is somebodies gonna die!


----------



## HokieKen

> Very interesting chisels. My Google search yielded almost nothing. Torshalla is a city in Sweden where Eskilstuna Steel was once located and Smide is the swedish word for forge. So you have chisels forged in Torshalla which are most likely made of very high quality Eskilstuna steel.
> 
> Edit: Forgot Jill s brother lives in Sweden and is a woodworker. I will ask him if he knows anything about them. Although its not likely as most of his vintage tools come from me.
> 
> - sansoo22


Thanks. That's about what I came up with when I was searching. They are very close to identical to EA Bergs right down to the pinned hoops on the butt and knurling on the ferrule.










Except for the assymetric bevels that I noticed I neglected to post the photo of earlier…


----------



## Johnny7

Kenny

The explanation is simple-your chisels were made en Måndag morgon


----------



## HokieKen

Or Friday afternoon…


----------



## DLK

> Still unopened
> 
> Please tell Santa I be good!
> 
> - theoldfart


What a nice looking box. LOL.


----------



## bandit571

A before…









An After..









A Before…









An After…









Same size as a Stanley No. 102…..


----------



## Lazyman

> The carrier could drop my package from 3 stories up and it would still arrive perfectly as I sent it. I don't trust the carriers this year.
> 
> In other news, I was on the fence to buy a Robert-Sorby Pro Edge Plus when …
> 
> I discovered Axminster Trade Ultimate Edge
> 
> Video
> 
> From what I can tell from research, the Axminster puts the Sorby to shame for the same price and the Axminster is actually designed to sharpen planes, chisels, and spokeshaves whereas the Sorby is basically for turning tools.
> 
> I think the Axminster may be the game changer I have been looking for.
> 
> - DevinT


 There are definitely some things to like about that belt grinder but the Sorby is not just for turning tools. it just excels at them , IMO. The big thing I like about the Axminster is the variable speed and the reverse direction, both things I wish the Proedge had. While the angle jig looks nice and precise, it seem like a lot of trouble to me. By the time he got them set up for one plane iron, even discounting for doing a demo, I could have sharpened all of my planes, even if they aren't all the same bevel angle and even if I need to use multiple grits. I can literally touch up a 2" iron in about 10 seconds and be back to work. It takes longer to reset the chip breaker than it does to sharpen, even if I have to change the angle of the tool rest.


----------



## HokieKen

The Axminister Edge looks like a competent design. It's like the Tormek had a baby with the Proedge. I have a bar attachment for my Worksharp to use Tormek jigs. I dislike the same thing about that one that I dislike about the attachment I have - the bar is cantilevered and is a relatively small diameter. Which means it can flex. For that reason, I only use the bar on mine for carving tools and skew chisels. I don't use it for anything where I apply even moderate pressure like plane irons or chisels. And I would far prefer a tool rest that sets an accurate angle rather than one that relies on the plane iron being set with a proper projection from the jig. The variable speed and reversible motor is a winner though.


----------



## DevinT

What if I told you the Axminster has a shelf accessory, pictured below …


----------



## sansoo22

I found the addition of a buff for "Unicorn" sharpening a nice addition to go with the tool rest. This Axminster setup has me re-evaluating my future sharpening station.


----------



## HokieKen

That is better IMO Devin. I'd still prefer the rigidity and positive stops that the Sorby sports though I think.


----------



## DevinT

the Sorby runs the belt backwards in my opinion. How are you supposed to pull a wire edge if the belt is running into the blade instead of away from it?


----------



## HokieKen

Agreed. I sharpen with abrasives into the cutting edge until I get the wire edge rolled up then hone away from the edge to remove it. The Sorby not being reversible is a big shortcoming IMO. I assume stropping by hand is the preferred method for removing the wire edge after sharpening on the machine.


----------



## Mosquito

I often manage to get a bur off the grinder?


----------



## HokieKen

You mean you get the burr rolled up on the grinder or remove it on the grinder? You can definitely roll it on the grinder. For me, removing the burr requires several alternate strokes on the bevel and the back of the blade.


----------



## DevinT

For me, removing the bur takes but 3 seconds on the diamonds or Shapton using a "pull while sliding left and right" motion. Forming a good bur is more time consuming than removing it in my opinion (affected by the equipment I use, of course)

I just don't see how the Pro Edge can form a bur with the belt rolling into the edge instead of away from it (sparks fly down on the Pro Edge, like a Brodbeck 2×72)


----------



## RichT

> I just don't see how the Pro Edge can form a bur with the belt rolling into the edge instead of away from it (sparks fly down on the Pro Edge, like a Brodbeck 2×72)
> 
> - DevinT


Physics. The burr forms on the narrow edge, regardless of the direction of the abrasive.


----------



## HokieKen

I pretty much always work with the belt/disc/stone turning into the edge until my final grade when it's time tor remove the burr then I flip the other way and let the abrasive run away from the edge. On stones, I sharpen in both directions until time to remove the burr. But, it can certainly be done the other way too.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dear Lord….

Santa's "sleigh", i.e. USPS, has taken an extreme detour en route to my recipient. This is not good. It's packed solid… very solid… but I'm worried. Six days in transit and it's really no closer to being there than it was when I stuck postage on it and bid farewell.


----------



## HokieKen

Let's see how it goes this week Smitty. If it doesn't get there by Christmas, I'll let your recipient know what the delay is.


----------



## Lazyman

I definitely get a wire edge when I use my finest Trizac belt on my Proedge and a couple swipes on a fine stone or even 1000+ Grit wet/dry paper removes it. The finer the grit of the belt the finer the wire edge. Unless I damage an edge that needs to be ground back, the finest belt just stays on it.

I looked at the table for the axminster and it looks better than most grinder tool rests but still pales in comparison to the presets of the Proedge, especially when it comes to repeatability. The little bevel gauge for varied skewed edges is a nice option. The Proedge also has a similar buffing wheel attachment as well has a leather strop wheel option. Another pro for the Axminster is that its bar is compatible with some of the Tormek jigs, which might be nice to have some of those as an option.


----------



## Mosquito

> Agreed. I sharpen with abrasives into the cutting edge until I get the wire edge rolled up then hone away from the edge to remove it. The Sorby not being reversible is a big shortcoming IMO. I assume stropping by hand is the preferred method for removing the wire edge after sharpening on the machine.
> 
> - HokieKen


Formed, the below is more what I was answering. The grinder wheel is moving in the same direction. I don't leave the edge off the grinder, it goes to the diamond stones after that, gets honed, and the burr gets removed similar to what you describe, though sometimes I'll just use the MDF on the cabinet that the sharpening stones sit on instead of the back and forth on the diamond stone



> I just don't see how the Pro Edge can form a bur with the belt rolling into the edge instead of away from it (sparks fly down on the Pro Edge, like a Brodbeck 2×72)
> 
> - DevinT


----------



## HokieKen

Gotcha. That lines up with my experience as well. And all this brings up another check mark in the "pro" column for the Worksharp. When sharpening on top, changing direction is just a matter of moving the blade to the other side of the disc


----------



## DevinT

> I definitely get a wire edge when I use my finest Trizac belt on my Proedge and a couple swipes on a fine stone or even 1000+ Grit wet/dry paper removes it. The finer the grit of the belt the finer the wire edge. Unless I damage an edge that needs to be ground back, the finest belt just stays on it.
> 
> I looked at the table for the axminster and it looks better than most grinder tool rests but still pales in comparison to the presets of the Proedge, especially when it comes to repeatability. The little bevel gauge for varied skewed edges is a nice option. The Proedge also has a similar buffing wheel attachment as well has a leather strop wheel option. Another pro for the Axminster is that its bar is compatible with some of the Tormek jigs, which might be nice to have some of those as an option.
> 
> - Lazyman


Which Trizact? A16? A6?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Got my Secret Santa package today.










A Sargent #4, a Transitional Sargent jack plane, and a minimalist mitre box. Thanks, Kevin!

Didn't get a chance to play with them at all today. I was trying to wrap up a present which involved some GlowPoxy (glow-in-the-dark epoxy), but apparently it was beyond its shelf-life and had mostly solidified. Sigh.

More on the planes once I have a chance to play with my new toys.


----------



## Mosquito

I've got two of those miter boxes, and I really like them, I bet you'll enjoy it Dave!


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, those lunch pail miter boxes are the deal. When ya gotta take the toll to the work instead of visa versa  Great package Kev Clause!


----------



## Lazyman

Devon, I have an A30 and an A16 Trizac and I usually have the finer one on for touch ups. I really love those belts for sharpening.


----------



## HokieKen

The Trizact belts are great. I have them in 3 or 4 different grades for my belt grinder and they're what I use to do the final grinds and put the edge on knives I make. My only beef with them is that they seem to be very fragile. I rarely damage a belt before I wear it out but I've shredded one of the trizacts and have two where the edges have gotten kinda ratty.


----------



## Lazyman

I haven't run into that yet Kenny but the tiny little belts for the Proedge may have a much lower risk of problems than the (72"?) ones for your big belt grinder. The tracking on the Proedge seems to be pretty solid. I set it once and it seems to work for any belt I put on it so there is little risk of that at least causing edge damage.


----------



## Lazyman

I am definitely going to need an action shot of that small miter box, Dave. I've never seen one like that before and cannot understand how they would be setup and used.


----------



## Mosquito




----------



## HokieKen

Here's a pic TOF posted a while back in the Miter Box thread using a similar guide Nathan.


----------



## Lazyman

Dang it. Now I need one of those.


----------



## Mosquito

There was a little more about them on this page (101) in the miter box thread as well


----------



## theoldfart

Nathan, I may be able to come up with one for you. Pm me.


----------



## Mosquito

I need to make a new little wheel for mine, it broke in half at some point, so now if I overshoot the cut, the saw hits a screw instead of a wooden wheel. My second one just has a piece held in there with a screw that doesn't spin, but I was hoping to make a large leather washer type thing for it, little more durable than a wooden one


----------



## bandit571

This arrived some time ago, never got the time to rehab it…and may never use it, anyway..









Not sure when I'd get around to rehabbing it….









Seems to be complete, though….









Looks like if you'd remove 2 bolts, this could even do compound miters….

Not sure what I'll do with it, right now…


----------



## bandit571

Ok…Mystery Plane…keep or toss…









Front view…Yes, that is a washer under the bolt…the way it came to my shop…









Side view…not a "Low angle" plane..6-1/4" long..









The sole is not really all that good..straight sides?









Compared to the #102…..mouth is too big, too…LOGO?









An A.T.F. plane? ( Not Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms?)

Compared to the other Tiny Tots in the shop…









Finger rest out front is kind of…









SMALL….Maybe for one's pinky to rest on?


----------



## corelz125

I think I have one of those ATF block planes. Never gave it much thought I might of even sold it.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thanks for the action shots, Mos, Kenny, and Kevin!

I spent the morning fiddling with the GlowPoxy that I'm still trying to use for a present. The tech called me back this morning and said "heat it to 145F and it'll reliquify" so I popped it in my crock pot that normally heats my hot hide glue, and sure enough, it did. So I still haven't had a chance to play with my new toys, but I might get the glow-in-the-dark cup finished before Christmas…

Also made some progress on a juniper bowl I'm turning. It was brittle enough that I had to do some patching with CA glue between turning sessions, but at least I had plenty of sawdust available for packing the cracks.


----------



## DevinT

> Devon, I have an A30 and an A16 Trizac and I usually have the finer one on for touch ups. I really love those belts for sharpening.
> 
> - Lazyman


Thanks!

I haven't seen too many (any?) people ever talk about using an A6.

I am really interested in the potential of using an A6 at low speed for quick touch-ups.

I am almost certain that the Pro Edge uses an induction motor (AC) but to be compatible with a VFD it would need to either be 3-phase 110V or at least single phase 220V because I cannot find any VFDs for single 110.

The fact that the Axminster comes with a VFD is nice, but I have been reading that the VFD they paired with their motor is not that fancy (no soft start, and low end is 200 RPM, which some users reported as still generating significant heat).

There are better VFDs. I think it is safe to say though that the Axminster is a 3-phase induction motor in their 110V offering.

I am thinking that perhaps if the Pro Edge in 110V had a 3-phase motor, and it was possible to access the wiring (HINT: I tried to to dismantle my Bucktool 4×36 to check whether it was single-phase induction or 3-phase but could not get the casing off), the Pro Edge with a high quality VFD could blow the pants off the Axminster.

I am also aware that as you step up in grit (e.g., going to A6 Trizact) more heat will be generated. I have seen VFDs that can provide full torque at speeds far lower than 200 RPM.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That ATF is not something I'd cling to as a potential user. And not sure it has any other kind of value past "USER". Given the Dungeon Shop is saturated with all other types of iron, brass and rosewood, I say relocate the thing.
.
.
.
But, who am I to judge? 
.
.
.


----------



## bandit571

Ok…the ATF thing has left the building, currently residing in the trash can….having just missed Trash Pick-ups today…

Of course…there is still a Stanley H1248 in the til, somewhere….May just send it on it's way, too?


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> I am almost certain that the Pro Edge uses an induction motor (AC) but to be compatible with a VFD it would need to either be 3-phase 110V or at least single phase 220V because I cannot find any VFDs for single 110.
> 
> The fact that the Axminster comes with a VFD is nice, but I have been reading that the VFD they paired with their motor is not that fancy (no soft start, and low end is 200 RPM, which some users reported as still generating significant heat).
> 
> There are better VFDs. I think it is safe to say though that the Axminster is a 3-phase induction motor in their 110V offering.
> 
> ...
> - DevinT


A 120V 3 phase motor would be extremely uncommon. I'm sure there were/are some made for very specific applications but not anything you'll find on the consumer market. And a VFD can only power a 3 phase motor. Something like the Axminster grinder with a speed control is almost certainly a DC motor with controls that take 120AC and rectify it to output a DC voltage to the motor based on the speed controller.


----------



## DevinT

> ...
> I am almost certain that the Pro Edge uses an induction motor (AC) but to be compatible with a VFD it would need to either be 3-phase 110V or at least single phase 220V because I cannot find any VFDs for single 110.
> 
> The fact that the Axminster comes with a VFD is nice, but I have been reading that the VFD they paired with their motor is not that fancy (no soft start, and low end is 200 RPM, which some users reported as still generating significant heat).
> 
> There are better VFDs. I think it is safe to say though that the Axminster is a 3-phase induction motor in their 110V offering.
> 
> ...
> - DevinT
> 
> A 120V 3 phase motor would be extremely uncommon. I m sure there were/are some made for very specific applications but not anything you ll find on the consumer market. And a VFD can only power a 3 phase motor. Something like the Axminster grinder with a speed control is almost certainly a DC motor with controls that take 120AC and rectify it to output a DC voltage to the motor based on the speed controller.
> 
> - HokieKen


A VFD is capable of powering a single phase 220 motor.

Correct, special case single phase 110 motors have been made with special purpose VFDs, and they are extremely uncommon.

However, there are a number of VFDs on Amazon that can connect to a single phase 220.

3-phase 110 is actually pretty common in treadmills. Washing machines also come to mind.

I don't think the Axminster is using a Variac or Triac, I think it is using a VFD. From what I have read, it is a VFD.


----------



## Peteybadboy

Lazyman,

You got your scraper. Very happy for you. (I backed out of a sale to you) remember?

BTW you do suck. That is an amazing deal.

Go back and get the rest!

The best.


----------



## HokieKen

> A VFD is capable of powering a single phase 220 motor.
> 
> Correct, special case single phase 110 motors have been made with special purpose VFDs, and they are extremely uncommon.
> 
> However, there are a number of VFDs on Amazon that can connect to a single phase 220.
> 
> 3-phase 110 is actually pretty common in treadmills. Washing machines also come to mind.
> 
> I don't think the Axminster is using a Variac or Triac, I think it is using a VFD. From what I have read, it is a VFD.
> 
> - DevinT


I think you may have misread something. VFDs can take a single phase 230V *input* and power a three phase motor. And it is technically possible to supply 3 phase power to a single phase motor but only for very specialize motors that are high powered (10 hp range) and inverter duty which is a much different winding than is present in consumer grade motors.

I'd be interested in links to VFDs that claim to power single phase motors. Like I said though, I think you may be getting the supply and outputs inverted? It has been a couple of years since I deep-dove on VFDS though so maybe (hopefully) there is some new tech I'm unaware of  I know I'd LOVE to be able to add speed control to both my lathes without having to buy new motors!


----------



## DevinT

> A VFD is capable of powering a single phase 220 motor.
> 
> Correct, special case single phase 110 motors have been made with special purpose VFDs, and they are extremely uncommon.
> 
> However, there are a number of VFDs on Amazon that can connect to a single phase 220.
> 
> 3-phase 110 is actually pretty common in treadmills. Washing machines also come to mind.
> 
> I don't think the Axminster is using a Variac or Triac, I think it is using a VFD. From what I have read, it is a VFD.
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> I think you may have misread something. VFDs can take a single phase 230V *input* and power a three phase motor. And it is technically possible to supply 3 phase power to a single phase motor but only for very specialize motors that are high powered (10 hp range) and inverter duty which is a much different winding than is present in consumer grade motors.
> 
> I d be interested in links to VFDs that claim to power single phase motors. Like I said though, I think you may be getting the supply and outputs inverted? It has been a couple of years since I deep-dove on VFDS though so maybe (hopefully) there is some new tech I m unaware of  I know I d LOVE to be able to add speed control to both my lathes without having to buy new motors!
> 
> - HokieKen


I mean, I could also be wrong - there are a lot of crazy product claims out there - but I believe this unit is single phase 220 output …

ATO 5 hp 4 kW VFD, 220V Single Phase Input & Output VFD, 23 Amps Variable Frequency Drive for Single Phase AC Motor Speed Control

*EDIT:* part of a line. That unit is 5HP, but they have one as low as 1/2HP for $161, and others in the line rate at 1HP, 2HP, 3HP, 5HP (the above-linked unit), 7.5HP, and 10HP


----------



## DevinT

For a sharpening setup, of course that 5HP/23A unit is WAY overkill. You need like 5A (maybe a 1HP/7A unit for $195).


----------



## HokieKen

I stand corrected. It is indeed as you say. I'd still be extremely cautious if it were me and I'd get an EE to check the specs on it and the motor I intended to use. I have a feeling you still need an inverter duty motor but I don't know that for sure.


----------



## DevinT

> I stand corrected. It is indeed as you say. I'd still be extremely cautious if it were me and I'd get an EE to check the specs on it and the motor I intended to use. I have a feeling you still need an inverter duty motor but I don't know that for sure.
> 
> - HokieKen


Yeah, I don't know if much has changed in the World in the decades since I went for my EET degree

*EDIT:* And if I'm being honest, I remember very little from college


----------



## HokieKen

LOL. I think we all remember very little from college ;-)

Know what I do remember every year? (How's that for a segue?) To hone my EDC knife to a finer edge than normal. Wrapping paper, cardboard and scotch tape is surprisingly abrasive. So I thought I'd share a photo:









It's relevant because I do this with my tools as well. A thin layer of layout dye shows me immediately where I'm removing material and how close to the edge I'm getting. Once all the dye is gone, I start feeling for a burr. Same can ve done with Sharpie but it's a little thicker and more easily removed. It's not really helpful with jigs but if I'm free-handing anything, it's a must-have for me.


----------



## ac0rn

I didn't know that Santa was from California, but she is! She likes bubble wrap, and rolls of blue tape too. The tape also has unwrapping direction arrows. All safely unwrapped, and assembled.
A Stanley Type 13V #27 Jack plane. Lovely and SHARP. Tested it on both fir, and cherry.
Thank you Santa Devin.


----------



## RWE

Looks very nice. Nothing like how a transitional glides with that wood on wood feel.


----------



## DevinT

*Jeff* oh you are very welcome. Now, I do believe it is a 27 1/2 which I believe was missing from your stable (or at least in ALL of your posts, I've never seen that you had one). I saw you had other transitionals and thought you could use another one 

Those are some nice shavings. She takes a bit of a heavy cut but as you probably know quite well, Some attention to the sole will fix that. I felt you might know more than me here and so I mostly focused on the blade. It has a wonderful iron, very hard, holds the edge well (I test drove it and then touched it up again right before sending it - lots of metal left; should last a while).

I suspect the iron may also fit some of the other planes you have ^_^


----------



## HokieKen

Awesome Devin! Great package for Jeff. Use it well and in good health Jeff!

I have confirmation that all packages have been shipped and are at least scheduled for delivery before Christmas


----------



## Lazyman

> LOL. I think we all remember very little from college ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


40 years later and I still sometimes have a recurring dream where I stopped going to a class and forgot to formally drop it and finals are coming up. I think it was that calculus class that took "just for fun" that triggered that dream.


----------



## HokieKen

Well yeah, calculus is fun. It was all the useless humanities crap that always gave me nightmares.


----------



## RichT

I had a recurring nightmare during engineering school that I sat down to an exam and had forgotten my calculator. In 1976, during an electrical fields midterm, it came true. Taking a fields exam without one was impossible. I walked down the lecture pit stairs and asked the professor if I could reschedule.

With a wry grin he said no, but you can use one of these, and laid out two Pickett slide rules. I grabbed one and completed the exam. He was blown away, and I aced the test.

Back in 4th grade, I begged my mom to buy me one of those 97 cent Sterling plastic slide rules at the five and dime. I had no clue how to use one, but it looked cool. She caved and got it for me. I remember picking it up getting nowhere and putting it away many times. One day I discovered how to use the C and D scales to multiply and divide and was hooked.

For Christmas in 9th grade, I asked for a Post Versalog (a whopping 25 dollars at the time) and Santa delivered. I still have it to this day.










After I graduated mom said many times that that Sterling rule was the best 97 cents she ever spent.


----------



## tshiker

Great story Rich!


> I had a recurring nightmare during engineering school that I sat down to an exam and had forgotten my calculator. In 1976, during an electrical fields midterm, it came true. Taking a fields exam without one was impossible. I walked down the lecture pit stairs and asked the professor if I could reschedule.
> 
> With a wry grin he said no, but you can use one of these, and laid out two Pickett slide rules. I grabbed one and completed the exam. He was blown away, and I aced the test.
> 
> Back in 4th grade, I begged my mom to buy me one of those 97 cent Sterling plastic slide rules at the five and dime. I had no clue how to use one, but it looked cool. She caved and got it for me. I remember picking it up getting nowhere and putting it away many times. One day I discovered how to use the C and D scales to multiply and divide and was hooked.
> 
> For Christmas in 9th grade, I asked for a Post Versalog (a whopping 25 dollars at the time) and Santa delivered. I still have it to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After I graduated mom said many times that that Sterling rule was the best 97 cents she ever spent.
> 
> - Rich


----------



## DonBroussard

Rich - Great story. One of my early classes in civil engineering was how to use a slide rule. I still look for them at flea markets when I go antiquing - there is still a bit of nostalgia to them, even though their highest and best use is to stir paint.


----------



## RichT

> Rich - Great story. One of my early classes in civil engineering was how to use a slide rule. I still look for them at flea markets when I go antiquing - there is still a bit of nostalgia to them, even though their highest and best use is to stir paint.
> 
> - Don Broussard


I've bought several at antique malls when I found one in good condition. Why? I'm a geek.


----------



## Lazyman

> Well yeah, calculus is fun. It was all the useless humanities crap that always gave me nightmares.
> 
> - HokieKen


It would have been fun had I not been a senior in my last semester and didn't need the credit to graduate. I really didn't want to do the homework. That normally would not have been a problem but the professor was terrible so I basically was having to teach it to myself. I have to admit that the other reason I took it was because a cute girl was also taking the class-That did make it a little fun.


----------



## TedT2

Well Santa Smitty showed up in a big way today with a beautiful 5 1/2C Stanley. An awesome plane and a great gift. He didn't probably know it but I am a huge corrugated plane fan. Really a wonderful gift. Thank you Smitty for the gift and letter.


----------



## HokieKen

Great score Ted! 5 1/2 is one of my favorite sizes  Well done Smitty!


----------



## theoldfart

^+1.
Actually kudos to everyone. Especially to the swap master himself, well done Kenny!

Edit, maybe SantaProf will give me a bye so I can open mine.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree Kev, I haven't seen a plane passed around that I would be upset about getting  And Don already gave you the combination. That's a "bye" in my book!


----------



## sansoo22

Jeff - That transitional is beautiful. Good job Devin! I am slowly building a set of transitionals all with "Bailey" stamped in before the knob. That is a size i still don't have and I must admit I am a bit jealous of nice that one is.

Ted - that 5-1/2C is one heck of a nice santa swap gift. I think only a guy like Smitty can find one of those under the spending limit.


----------



## TedT2

I have to say that I really enjoyed the plane swap. It was fun looking and cleaning and anticipating. Thank you Kenny for heading this up. Would love to do it again next year.


----------



## RWE

About a year or so ago, I picked up a pretty trashed out Sargent VBM Jack at a local monthly trade fair. Domestic duty has kept me out of the shop for most of the year, but I finally got the ole Sargent mostly done.

Before:


















I made two repairs on the tote. The front knob was waterlogged and punky. I may turn a new one or use a spare from the collection of old parts. Forgive the washer in the pictures, I did not want to shorten the front bolt enough to get it to lock down. More work to go, but close.

This is the first plane that I had my sandblasting rig to use on. Also, I did bake the Engine Enamel that I used. No Evaporust was used. I used the Porter Cable Restorer on the sides and bottom, flattened the bottom on a slab and used a new to me wire wheel that I picked up at a garage sale. So there were a lot of new techniques and tools on this one.

This fellow was a mess and probably was not worth the effort, but it should make a decent user.

After:


----------



## DLK

Kevin, If you can claim to be a Celt than I give you permission to open your box for grianstad an gheimhridh (winter solstice).


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yay, the Sleigh finally got there!

Ted, you put that together in record time. The USPS sent a note that it was delivered at 10:42 this AM; you had it assembled and posted here at 10:50! 

So glad it arrived, and is intact! And glad you will enjoy it - it needed a good home.

Great job Kenny and Everyone Involved! Merry Christmas!


----------



## theoldfart

Don, I'm descended from, Murphy, Niellon and Ryan. Do you say Keltic or Selltic?

My Gaelic and Scotch Celt music collection takes a good bit of space.

So, going for it!


----------



## GrantA

Hey everybody! Long time no see, I've been up to my elbows with the shop renovation, finally making good progress!
Lee Valley finally has something I have been wanting and I was looking to see what else they might have in stock. Any thoughts on these scrapers?


----------



## theoldfart

So, this is new territory for me.



















Don, thank you.

It's a Sargent 708 auto set smoother.

This is gonna be fun.


----------



## theoldfart

Anybody notice the Sargent theme?

I think it's a DonW conspiracy!


----------



## TedT2

> Yay, the Sleigh finally got there!
> 
> Ted, you put that together in record time. The USPS sent a note that it was delivered at 10:42 this AM; you had it assembled and posted here at 10:50!
> 
> So glad it arrived, and is intact! And glad you will enjoy it - it needed a good home.
> 
> Great job Kenny and Everyone Involved! Merry Christmas!
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


LOL. I walked in opened it and started assembling…didn't have the patience to wait…thank you again. It is an awesome plane. It will get put to work….


----------



## HokieKen

> Anybody notice the Sargent theme?
> 
> I think it's a DonW conspiracy!
> 
> - theoldfart


Can't be that. Don sent me Millers Falls )


----------



## HokieKen

That 708 looks like a complex animal. Should be fun to play around with and see what's what  Nice package Don!


----------



## drsurfrat

> Any thoughts on these scrapers?
> - GrantA


Shop progress is always great to hear.
I would get a used Stanley No 80 or equiv. body for probably $20-30, then buy the LV spare card for it.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> I would get a used Stanley No 80 or equiv. body for probably $20-30, then buy the LV spare card for it.
> 
> - drsurfrat


+1 I don't see that Veritas has improved over the old #80 with that design. And I don't really have any complaints with the old #80 blades for that matter.


----------



## sansoo22

I prefer the Hock scraper blades myself. They are a little pricier but you get about twice the amount of steel and they retain the hook for a long time. I have a Hock in all 4 of my scraper planes. I like them so well I sent Kenny all of my spare Stanley scraper irons.


----------



## rad457

The Veritas is a little longer behind the blade if memory serves me right, I actually like the Veritas iron slightly more than the the Hock in my #80  Find a huge difference in how they feel in use, wouldn't give up one for the other?
The Stanley iron makes a good hand scrapper card!


----------



## MikeB_UK

> So, this is new territory for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don, thank you.
> 
> It's a Sargent 708 auto set smoother.
> 
> This is gonna be fun.
> 
> - theoldfart


Cool, I get how the depth & lateral adjuster work.

The screw on top of the cap/breaker sets the distance to the iron?


----------



## theoldfart

I think so Mike, much to learn on these.


----------



## DLK

*Kevin*, OMG celtic is always pronounced Kel-tic except by the thick gob********************e Boston NBA.

FYI grianstad an gheimhridh is Irish for winter solstice in Scots gaelic it is solstice geamhraidh.
I'll let you work out how to pronounce them. You'll be wrong unless you do some research.

(Once upon a time and a long time ago it was the language of the Irish and the Scots were both called gaelic. Now they are called Irish and Gaelic (or Scots gaelic). )

Anyway *glad you like the 708. *I was going to pawn off one of my many 78's onto to you, but thought you deserved better. I had a hard time trying to figure out what you might not have. Only thing I did to it was to get it sharp and take some shavings. I think they sell now for $150 -$300, so if you give up on it you'll be able to turn a nice profit. Don W has a write up on the 708. I had always planned to make a box for whatever I sent. But for you I decided to make one that looked similar to the boxes that Russell Jennings came in. It is even long enough to stash your extra auger bits in it. You need not keep it for the 708.

Sliánte ( or Sliànte if you're Scot.)


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Picture for today..









Millers Falls No. 9, Type 4….doing some jointer work? ( size the plane to the size of the work)

IF I remember…I sent DonW 3 Sargent planes….maybe he had to make room for them?


----------



## sansoo22

My Secret Santa planes from corelz125 arrived today…or maybe it was yesterday…I don't remember the last time I checked the mailbox.

A nice little 102 which is a block plane size I don't actually have so very much appreciated.









Some toe screws for Stanley totes which are also needed in the rehab center. Those tend to get super pitted on some of the rustier planes and one of the things I have trouble shining up.









And lastly a very interesting bevel down tiny plane. I have no idea who the maker is and I definitely don't have one of these.









It's about the size of a 60-1/2 block plane. I don't really know how to use it. I did put a very crude edge on the iron and test drove it. Its oddly very comfortable and accurate when using the front horn as a thumb hook.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, I'm going to make a finished interior fitted to the 708.

It will have an honored place on my bench.


----------



## ac0rn

Devin, Yes it is indeed a 27 1/2


----------



## corelz125

That's a nice 708 you got Kevin. I don't know how he pulled that one off for $40 they go for a lot more than that most of the time.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice package for Sansoo too! I'll bet that's one guy who won't let those spare screws go to waste . And I have a feeling we may soon see the world's sexiest 102. I'm curious about the mystery plane too. Is the back part metal or wood? Thing looks like it weighs a ton


----------



## DLK

To tell the truth I have no idea how much I paid for the 708. But I got it 10 years ago.


----------



## corelz125

It's not heavy at all Kenny. That back part is some sort of plastic. It' felt pretty good in my hand. I was looking for something different and came across that one. Knowing he's a Stanley guy I had to include a Stanley also.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm not even gonna comment on that front knob ;-)


----------



## bigblockyeti

Kenny to the rescue saying what everyone else was thinking . . . . . . without actually saying it.


----------



## Ocelot

You guys and gals have done a great job of the swap. I'm envious. I would be afraid that whatever I came up with would be the worst. I had a chance to buy a V&B 904 for like $10, but I could never find time to drive there and get it.


----------



## Ocelot

I have a question. I just yesterday used the 12-20 die that Kenny got for us, to make a tote rod. It works ok. The rod stock I used was oil-hardening steel. Is there any advantage to heat treating those? It would make it stiffer, I suppose.

- Paul


----------



## HokieKen

No Paul. Hardening it will make it brittle which is worse for something that will be in bending stress which is what that rod will see. The heat would likely distort the threads too and you'd have a hard time chasing them with that die after hardening.


----------



## HokieKen

I should have said, that rod doesn't need to be hard. Unlike the knob on Sansoo's plane.


----------



## Ocelot

Thanks Ken,

The rod stock was labled "nonshrinking", so I figured maybe the threads would still fit after hardening. Surely there is no need to harden the threaded parts going into brass and cast iron.

While it makes it easier to not do the hardening, I wonder if there is a procedure for half-hardening.

The only reason I'm replacing the original rod is that it was bent.

I'm not sure what you mean about Sansoo's plane, probably an inside joke.

-Paul


----------



## sansoo22

The falic plane I have already started drawing up a plane to convert it to an infill. I need to find a 1-1/4" square chunk of brass for the knob though. I'm thinking a reversed saddle horn gives multiple grip options. The body maybe something dense and exotic that gives a little more heft to the plane.

I do have all the paint colors on hand to do the 102 up nicely. That battleship grey is nye impossible to match in anything that has decent durability so it may end up a tad darker grey but it should still look fantastic. Unfortunately its going to have to wait. I've got 4 commissioned restores and my 605 in front of it at least.


----------



## bandit571

Stanley No. 102…









The only places not Japanned black was the sole, and the iron.

Prices have indeed gone up….used to be these were about fifty cents at yard sales….now?









Hmmm…










It does have a "Little Brother"....


----------



## BugeyedEarl

Must… Resist… Knob jokes…


----------



## bandit571

Next trip to the shop….maybe later today….going to get all the stashed block planes out of their hidy-holes and see what can be tossed out. 15 (Last count?) is just way too many. may keeps things like knobs and irons…spares box is getting a bit skimpy, right now…..may do a before and after photo shoot? Hmmm, might get ugly?


----------



## Ocelot

You can't …

... actually…

... throw away…

*PLANES!*


----------



## bandit571

Watch me…


----------



## drsurfrat

I'm w you Bandit, some are no more than "a weight upon the earth" as Homer said, and should return to it…


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, pack 'em up and offer for free plus shipping.

Newbies need to build up an inventory of spare parts once they get the rust hunting bug!


----------



## Ocelot

I admire you Bandit.

You see, I have this theory…

... that a person should have goals…

... and evaluate every *thing* with respect to his goals….

... and if it doesn't help toward one of his goals…

Get rid of it.

But, I don't do it.

-Paul


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Pictures,,









and,









and one for Kenny..









That IS a glued up panel it is working on…

Unable to sort through the other block planes…









As there is no room on the bench, right now….


----------



## GrantA

I should show off what I got- adot45 sent me a super clean No 4 Stanley that he rescued from a flea market and cleaned up. Here she is cleaning up a little panel. 
Thank you David! I'll get lots of use out of her


----------



## GrantA

> ...I have a Hock in all 4 of my scraper planes. I like them so well *I sent Kenny all of my spare Stanley scraper irons.*
> 
> - sansoo22


Well now I know why Kenny likes the Stanley irons bahahaha they were free!


----------



## donwilwol

I need to learn to speed read to keep up with you guys lately. Hope everyone has a good holiday.

A random picture just because


----------



## donwilwol

I need to learn to speed read to keep up with you guys lately. Hope everyone has a good holiday.

A random picture just because


----------



## MikeyBoyAz

My dream smother, with my tote and knob… New to turning so every other knob is oddly shaped


----------



## TedT2

That's a pretty no. 4 Grant. Definitely some awesome planes that were given…I just wish I had time to use mine…maybe in a couple of weeks when work slows down….


----------



## HokieKen

Good stuff Grant. Very nice santa plane adot 

So I know all santa planes have been shipped and I think everyone has recieved theirs. If you haven't gotten a package yet, let me know and I'll try to get some tracking info!


----------



## HokieKen

MikeyBoy, that's a sharp looking tote on the LN.


----------



## ac0rn

Thanks Ken for setting up the santa swap.


----------



## DevinT

Thank you very much Ken. It was a lot of fun.


----------



## MikeyBoyAz

> MikeyBoy, that's a sharp looking tote on the LN.
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks. It's my 5th try. The first 3 became firewood they were so bad. #4 was purple heart by request from a coworker… I was working up my courage to cut into the walnut
...in the end it turned out gorgeous…and it sits on the bedside table as much as it planes stubborn grain (most days)


----------



## adot45

> I should show off what I got- adot45 sent me a super clean No 4 Stanley that he rescued from a flea market and cleaned up. Here she is cleaning up a little panel.
> Thank you David! I ll get lots of use out of her
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - GrantA


Glad you like it Grant, and nice to see it's been put to work.

Thanks for running this swap Ken, it was loads of fun..


----------



## drsurfrat

Yes, Thanks Kenny. Very fun and appreciated.


----------



## RWE

I wanted to wish all of you a Merry Christmas and thank Kenny for the swap organization. I am in receipt of my swap gift. My neighbor picked it up for me off the front porch and is keeping it till I get back home from my daughter's home a couple of hours north of where I live. I believe it arrived at my house about an hour or so after I had started the drive. So later today or tomorrow, I will post about it.

It was fun to see the variety of planes. Thanks again Kenny.


----------



## bandit571

A big THANK YOU to Kenny, and a big THANK YOU to MOS….and have a Happy Holiday, everybody!


----------



## corelz125

Merry Christmas to everyone and great job done by everyone in the swap.


----------



## TedT2

Merry Christmas to all!!!


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Spent a bit of time in the shop this morning getting my no 7 cleaned up and sharpened. It came out nice and has a really nice patina on the knob and tote that I'm a big fan of leaving as is. A bit of wax after cleaning is all I like to do.

Merry Christmas to everyone!


----------



## HokieKen

Mwrry Christmas all! And thanks for a successful Secret Santa swap


----------



## RWE

Back home and just opened my box from Grant. Two planes. An English made Stanley #4. The first plane I bought, to shave some sticking doors, back in the 80's was a plastic handled English Stanley #4. This one is very nice, in great shape and actually has wood and not plastic. I will put it to good use. Many thanks.

Also included was a very interesting Fulton block plane. Adjustable mouth, interesting levers and cap lock mechanism. When I first saw it, it looked like a Millers Falls block that I have, same side ways profile, but all of the interesting parts makes me wonder who made it. I don't know Fulton history very well. Some of you folks that know about Fultons please chime in.

My daughter gave me the new Michael Peckovich book, Foundations of Woodworking.

Pictures:


----------



## bandit571

That Fulton was made by Sargent…that cap iron will fit either #306 or a #307 block plane.

One of the 3 planes I sent to DonW was also a #307…


----------



## RWE

> That Fulton was made by Sargent…that cap iron will fit either #306 or a #307 block plane.
> 
> One of the 3 planes I sent to DonW was also a #307…
> 
> - bandit571


My research just had taken me to a page on Don W.'s site. An image of a block there had the same adjusting lever style so I am guessing it is certainly a Sargent made plane, probably at least a 100 years old now.

Check the block plane here on TimetestedTools


----------



## bandit571

> ?


?










Called Fat Fingers…this was sold as a Firestone Supreme..









Seems they had lost the swivel lock…









And used a wedge, instead..


----------



## RWE

Bandit: I edited, too funny but too coarse a joke. Fat fingers can be a hoot.

Thanks again Grant. I will try to exercise those planes tomorrow.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice package Grant. A #4 is always handy


----------



## DLK

My the note with my Secret Santa gift:










had me worried. Why is there a broken piece inside a baggie? Then I opened the box!










Wow, I always wanted a 99. How did you know? And who are you?

Thank you so much my Secret Santa!

Now where can I find a reasonably priced Number 98?

(Also thanks Kenny for setting this up. Good job.)

Happy holidays to all.


----------



## theoldfart

A very useful plane Don. Good get.


----------



## DLK

> A very useful plane Don. Good get.
> 
> - theoldfart


Yes. I am quite pleased. And I just bought an expensive 98 on ebay to match it.


----------



## DLK

.


----------



## theoldfart

Do they have fences?

Mine don't but it has not been an issue.


----------



## HokieKen

Tshiker was your Santa Don. That's a fantastic offering


----------



## DLK

> Do they have fences?
> 
> Mine don't but it has not been an issue.
> 
> - theoldfart


They have a depth stop but no fence. I don't see how they could work with a fence.










Blood and gore says: "Starting around 1930, the plane came equipped with an adjustable depth stop located on the backside." So this one is post-1930. Unfortunately the 98 I just bought is pre-1930. But I don't see having a depth stop is all that useful anyway.


----------



## theoldfart

Meant to say depth stop, still in a food coma!


----------



## RWE

I hope to soon lapse into a food coma. Heading to the inlaws for the annual Christmas dinner.

Grant: The planes were sharp and worked well. I am always torn between leaving a plane looking like it has some age on it or going full Sansoo. I think I come down to making that determination based on how much Japanning is intact. Also, on how old the plane is. Later planes, doll them up. Earlier planes, have respect and and leave them be, just a bit of cleaning.

On both the English #4 Stanley and the Fulton block, I will just polish up the sides a bit for now.

The plastic handled English #4 that I bought in the 80's did have a triangular (Sargent like, but not rounded) lateral adjust lever whereas the Grant #4 had a typical Stanley lateral adjustment. Otherwise the body, the frog, the depth adjuster knob all seem the same. I don't think there is a lot of info on English made Stanleys, but I would guess that the Grant model is a 60-70's variety and my plastic handled one is 80's.


----------



## DLK

> Meant to say depth stop, still in a food coma!
> 
> - theoldfart


I too was in a food comma I didn't even realize it was you Kevin I was responding too. LOL.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Picture, anyone?









Had an Aromatic Red Cedar lid to clean up….Millers Falls No.9, T-4…









Grain running 4 ways at once? Not a Problem…same plane…this is the bottom of the box,,,,


----------



## DLK

How the *&$# do you take a part a Buck rogers plane. More precisely how do you get to the screw that s under th tote that holds the rear of the frog on. I got the four screws out that hold the tenite tote on but I can't figure out how to remove the tenite. Help please.

Frustrated I came in for lunch andI think I found the answer here

It slides up.


----------



## HokieKen

You got it Don


----------



## DLK

Pain in the ass, but I did get it off. I understand that most Buck Rogers planes when found are in pretty good shape, because they were not very used. Not ture true of this one. I think it must have been used in the deepest rain forest. I haven't restored a plane this rusty in quite a while. Surprisingly the paint is quite good. I got the body, frog, knob and tote cleaned up. Took a look at the lever cap and iron and decided to take a nap. Look for the result tomorrow or the next day in restorations and here.


----------



## DLK

What do you use to polish the plastic Buck Roger knob and tote?


----------



## HokieKen

Nothing Don. Use some mineral spirits and a rag to remove the white residue. I've never gone any further than that. The tennite burns pretty easily.


----------



## DLK

Well I did some reading and decided to go this route, I sanded the teniter from 400 to 6000 grit. Then I wiped it sparingly with denatured alcohol and quickly dried and buffed it with a paper towel. Looks pretty good now. Working on the lever cap now which is in bad shape. Tomorrow the Len Hovarter vise mechanism arrives. So am am rushing to get the Buck Rodgers done. BTW the Hi-polymer erasers clean CBN .


----------



## Lazyman

Have any of you ever seen these Reed Plane upgrade kits? Looks like they might be nice on an old plane with lots of slop in the depth adjuster.


----------



## ZenAtWork

Okay, FINE. Maybe it's not a plane. Or even handheld, really. but just think of how clean of a glue line you'd have! ...and talk about "finished right off the plane!"


----------



## RWE

My poor man's Restorer, that is, assuming you have a lathe. I did not like working on the smaller parts of a plane with the hand held restorer. So I bought some 1/2 inch threaded rod and mounted an old worn out paint removal drum and a Scotchbrite sleve mounted on the Restorer drum that is used for Scotchbrite and Sandpaper.

With this set up, you can present the part to the rotating drum. You can change rotation direction.

The restorer uses a 1/2 rod to hold the drums. Some of the drums on Amazon for other products may use different diameters.

As always, please excuse the mess, in this case at least, it is an overcrowded wood rack, which kinda has some charm and beauty, if you are a wood geek.










This is the little 306 Sargent/Fulton before:










After. I still need to move up in grits a bit to get that Sansoo shine.


----------



## RWE

I made a New Years Resolution to thin the herd a bit. I have three number 6's at this point and rarely use them. I favor the 608 for jointing or a 7.

Logic and practicality however don't seem to win over illogical passion.

I just acquired a Union #6 and am in the process of sand blasting the body now, for paint. It is clean, has an interesting iron, good wood, so I am inclined to keep it. It is probably the least valuable of the three.

One of the #6 planes is a type 6 Stanley. It may be the oldest metal body plane that I have. So it would be hard to part with that. That squatty hot air balloon front knob is just too cool.

The third plane is a Rockford/Marsh #6, with R6 in the plane bed. So that was the one that I was going to get rid of and after researching it, it seems to be somewhat rare and very well regarded.

*So, after great deliberation, I think I will keep them and just start using them. LOL.*

Rockford:


















Stanley Type 6 and Rockford 6: Guess I will need to fix the tote on the Stanley.


----------



## sansoo22

Does your R6 have a Rockford or Lakeside stamped iron? My R4 is stamped "Rockford T.M.P." but both my R6 and R7 have Lakeside irons.


----------



## RWE

I am one iron short in the #6 planes. I have an iron with STANLEY in the block letters only, in the R6. However, I think it may properly belong in the Type 6 Stanley. So I will have to look in the shop and see if I have another #6 iron. I do know that I don't have a Lakeside iron in that size. I have a Lakeside #3 with a Lakeside iron in it and that is the only Lakeside iron that I have.

Several years back, probably 5 or 6 years now, a new Antiques Shop opened near my daughter's home. I picked up a pristine Sargent VBM Jack, the Lakeside #3, and a couple of other planes there. It seemed that a "Lumberjock" type fellow had passed away and that shop had acquired his collection. I think I got the Razee type Stanley transitional there.

Around here, in the sleepy South, all you ever see are Stanleys, so I was in heaven with all the variety. The Union #6 that I just bought is the first Union all metal plane that I have run across. I want to move to New England.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

RWE that is a genius idea for the lathe use! I will definitely be stealing that idea.


----------



## RWE

> RWE that is a genius idea for the lathe use! I will definitely be stealing that idea.
> 
> - Thedustydutchman


Thanks. The Craftsman brand Restorer paint removal drum goes for less than $20 bucks on Amazon and seems to me to be about the same quality as the original Porter Cable drum which was priced in the $30-$40 range. I just bought one of those and put the old worn out one on the lathe.

Finding a Scotchbrite drum that uses a 1/2 inch rod would be the next thing. I had the Restorer with the optional sanding sleeves and Scotchbrite sleeves, so i did not go as far as trying to source those.

You have to drill a hole in the end of the 1/2 inch threaded rod for the cone center, but that is it.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Finally got to play with the transitional I got as part of my Secret Santa package today.










Worked nicely to flatten some ¼ inch pine, though it's so dry in the shop that the shavings just end up sticking to the plane body. Oops. And the adjuster goes the opposite direction of all of the other planes I regularly use. That will probably confuse me fairly often.


----------



## corelz125

RWE now you need a An Ohio 06, VBM 418, MF 18, and a V&B 906


----------



## RWE

I have never seen a V&B in any size, but as i understand it, they are fine planes. I will look for a MF18 but I think Kenny has all of them in his shop.

Actually, I need a 606. I have 3 through 8 in Keen Kutter K planes or Stanley round or flat rocks, minus a 606. Anyone want a nice Rockford for a 606?


----------



## RWE

I tried to sandblast my new Union #6 today. Guess I am just a rookie. It is very humid. I was using coal slag as the blast media and a Harbor Freight gun. The gun kept clogging. I could not make much progress.

Being half smart, I had drained the air compressor tank before I started. However, just blowing air on my fingers with an air nozzle would leave my fingers moist.

I have a minimalist rig. Anybody ever use *an inline cheapo drier.* Harbor Freight has some and Home Depot has some Husky branded ones. I have a Dewalt pancake compressor and it did well enough last summer with the rig. Just too much humidity. Slag may have picked up some moisture too.


----------



## HokieKen

> Well I did some reading and decided to go this route, I sanded the teniter from 400 to 6000 grit. Then I wiped it sparingly with denatured alcohol and quickly dried and buffed it with a paper towel. Looks pretty good now. Working on the lever cap now which is in bad shape. Tomorrow the Len Hovarter vise mechanism arrives. So am am rushing to get the Buck Rodgers done. BTW the Hi-polymer erasers clean CBN .
> 
> - Combo Prof


I got luck in that all of my Buck Rogers tools had tennite that is in pretty good shape with the exception of the plasticizer seperating and leaving that white residue. So I never spent much time worrying about polishing it up. Good to know it sands up okay though for future. I did experiment with a buffing wheel and compound on one of my push drills and found that the tennite burns very easily so after that, I decided to forego any further efforts.


----------



## HokieKen

> Have any of you ever seen these Reed Plane upgrade kits? Looks like they might be nice on an old plane with lots of slop in the depth adjuster.
> 
> - Lazyman


I wasn't aware of those Nathan but they do look pretty good. My only issue is with the fact that regardless of how fine you pitch the thread and how well you fit the yoke to the adjuster knob, you will still have some slop in the fit of the other end of the yoke in the chipbreaker. So that kit will give you finer control over the depth but will still leave you with some backlash in the system as a whole.

I like the idea behind the frog wedges too. I've often mulled over the possibilities of making angled shims to change the pitch of the frog on Bailey pattern planes. The biggest issue that I continually hit is that if you insert a wedge or shim like that, then the front pads on the frog are either lifted off the mating surface or make very little contact with it. I've come to the conclusion that if you want to re-pitch a frog in a Bailey pattern plane, machining of both the frog and the body is required to maintain a solid mate between the parts.

But, I like the shot he's taking at both issues and hope it helps some folks out! I'm tempted to order the wedges just to see if I'm assigning too much importance to the fit of the frog. But the price tag is a little steep for just an exploratory…


----------



## Lazyman

RWE, I am no expert but if your fingers are wet as you describe, it seems to me that the water has to be coming from the tank so I would just double check to make sure that you drained all the water out of it. I suppose that you also could have gotten some water in the line too that just hasn't been blown out since you drained the tank. After double checking that the tank is drained, I would see if you could just run as much air as you can through the hose to see if that would clear any water out of the line that may be sitting in there.

I don't have any experience with the driers so cannot offer any advice there.


----------



## HokieKen

> I have never seen a V&B in any size, but as i understand it, they are fine planes. I will look for a MF18 but I think Kenny has all of them in his shop.
> ...
> 
> - RWE


Nope, only one of those and you can't have it ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

> I tried to sandblast my new Union #6 today. Guess I am just a rookie. It is very humid. I was using coal slag as the blast media and a Harbor Freight gun. The gun kept clogging. I could not make much progress.
> 
> Being half smart, I had drained the air compressor tank before I started. However, just blowing air on my fingers with an air nozzle would leave my fingers moist.
> 
> I have a minimalist rig. Anybody ever use *an inline cheapo drier.* Harbor Freight has some and Home Depot has some Husky branded ones. I have a Dewalt pancake compressor and it did well enough last summer with the rig. Just too much humidity. Slag may have picked up some moisture too.
> 
> - RWE


Like Nathan said, make sure your tank is well and truly drained and make sure there's no water left in your hose. In fact, you may want to get a separate hose to use only with your blast gun to eliminate the possibility of moisture in the line causing problems in the future.

If that's not enough, or for a little added security, you can add an inline separator along these lines=. A cheapo should be fine for the low flow and infrequent use. I'd get one with a clear sump so you can see when it needs to be drained.


----------



## RWE

> RWE, I am no expert but if your fingers are wet as you describe, it seems to me that the water has to be coming from the tank so I would just double check to make sure that you drained all the water out of it. I suppose that you also could have gotten some water in the line too that just hasn t been blown out since you drained the tank. After double checking that the tank is drained, I would see if you could just run as much air as you can through the hose to see if that would clear any water out of the line that may be sitting in there.
> 
> I don t have any experience with the driers so cannot offer any advice there.
> 
> - Lazyman


I spoke with a couple of folks that know a bit more about these matters. I was told that the best practice is to empty the tank and leave the drain open so that any water in the tank drips out and the tank has a chance to dry out better. I typically leave the tank full and pressurized because 90% of my activity is just blowing air to clean the bench etc. So I am going to get one of those cheap inline driers and also drain the tank after each use. I can do this when sandblasting for sure and revert to my old habits of leaving the tank pressurized most of the time.

You can get the inline drier (cheapo models) for $10-20 bucks, so I will spring for that. One of my experts used to paint cars a bit back in the day. Can't paint well without a serious drier, so he knew about the inline driers and said to get one.

I had drained the tank during the last go round, but as you say, either there was water in the line, which is very long, or it was pulling water out of the air as it compressed the air. In any case, the cheapo drier should get me going.

Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## Lazyman

Kenny, I am mostly interested in the replacement depth adjuster yoke. On some of my older planes in particular, it seems to take more than a full rotation before it starts changing the depth of the blade in the opposite direction, which also means that if you backed it off, you have to turn it back that same amount to hold the blade in position. This is a PITA when trying to make it take a lighter cut with those planes. It looks like you basically file them to fit your nut and the slot in the chip breaker which should eliminate most of the backlash.

EDIT: BTW, Just the yoke is $15 which may be no more than a vintage one would cost on eBay.


----------



## RWE

> RWE, I am no expert but if your fingers are wet as you describe, it seems to me that the water has to be coming from the tank so I would just double check to make sure that you drained all the water out of it. I suppose that you also could have gotten some water in the line too that just hasn t been blown out since you drained the tank. After double checking that the tank is drained, I would see if you could just run as much air as you can through the hose to see if that would clear any water out of the line that may be sitting in there.
> 
> I don t have any experience with the driers so cannot offer any advice there.
> 
> - Lazyman


I spoke with a couple of folks that know a bit more about these matters. I was told that the best practice is to empty the tank and leave the drain open so that any water in the tank drips out and the tank has a chance to dry out better. I typically leave the tank full and pressurized because 90% of my activity is just blowing air to clean the bench etc. So I am going to get one of those cheap inline driers and also drain the tank after each use. I can do this when sandblasting for sure and revert to my old habits of leaving the tank pressurized most of the time.

You can get the inline drier (cheapo models) for $10-20 bucks, so I will spring for that. One of my experts used to paint cars a bit back in the day. Can't paint well without a serious drier, so he knew about the inline driers and said to get one.

I had drained the tank during the last go round, but as you say, either there was water in the line, which is very long, or it was pulling water out of the air as it compressed the air. In any case, the cheapo drier should get me going.

Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## HokieKen

I suppose if it's oversized and you file it to fit the chipbreaker, that's a better tact to take. But, that's only going to maintain a tight fit within a limited range of adjustment. Which is probably fine. As you move the blade deeper though the angle of the yoke end changes and eventually it will bind up. But, it will probably work fine assuming you always set the chipbreaker the same with respect to the cutting edge of the iron and don't need it to move from fully retracted to more than a few thousandths cut depth.

To me, sloppy depth adjusters have never been a source of frustration. I just remember to always adjust down to my final setting to make sure the backlash is all taken up to prevent the cutter from being able to slip backwards. But on most of my planes, once I get the cut depth set, it's where I'm going to leave it until I have to sharpen it again. If you find yourself adjusting your depth often though, it's certainly something to look into.


----------



## bandit571

One reason maybe that those who slap a new, extra thick iron into a plane…find the yoke no longers reaches the slot in the OEM chipbreaker. After all, a THICK iron is suppose to stop the plane from chattering, right?

There is a little built-in slop….to allow things to move laterally….because as the iron tilts, but the yoke can not, except by making the hole the rod goes through a loose fit. Try to move the lateral lever all the way to one side…and see.


----------



## Lazyman

Good point, Bandit, I hadn't though about the lateral adjustment requiring a little bit of room too. I just have a couple of planes where the there is just way too much slop. It doesn't make them unusable-just annoying at times.


----------



## corelz125

I have a 606 round rock but it's in real rough shape right now.


----------



## RWE

> I have a 606 round rock but it s in real rough shape right now.
> 
> - corelz125


Just sent you a PM. Been on the road all afternoon.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Random plane photo of the year.


----------



## HokieKen

What is that wizardry Smitty? Looks like a low angle smoother with adjustable throat? I wasn't aware such an animal existed in the vintage tool realm


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Santa was good to me. It's a Stanley No. 164. My grail if you will. Totally excited!!


----------



## Johnny7

Smitty

That truly is the RPP of the year, making it just under the wire.
Happy New Year!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yepper!  And it's impossible to contain my excitement!


----------



## DavePolaschek

Nice, Smitty!


----------



## DavePolaschek

Oh, I just checked and Lee Valley has the bench plane kits back in stock if anyone is thinking they want one for the next plane swap. I put in an order for three kits today, so I'm stocked up again.


----------



## drsurfrat

Whoa, Smitty, it's as rare as seeing Bigfoot petting the Loc Ness Monster. They ARE real!!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Whoa, Smitty, it s as rare as seeing Bigfoot petting the Loc Ness Monster. They ARE real!!!
> 
> - drsurfrat


Love that. Not sure it's that rare, but still love it.


----------



## HokieKen

Wow, I wasn't even aware of its existence Smitty. Somebody had to take a second mortgage for that puppy ;-) Congrats!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Old farts on this thread (and it's original precursor) will know how much I've lusted after this plane… a few bakesales later, and a raided college fund, and presto! ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

So that is what the "LN 164": is an imitation of. 
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/products/low-angle-smoothing-plane-

Because of the dash on the end, the imbeded link would not work.


----------



## Ocelot

Wo!

I would just buy the Veritas one. It's waaay cheaper than the old one


----------



## Ocelot

Next Smitty will have a Miller Patent in gunmetal!


----------



## rad457

> Wo!
> 
> I would just buy the Veritas one. It s waaay cheaper than the old one
> 
> - Ocelot


I have the Veritas one, even PMV-11 iron, heck would even trade straight across


----------



## donwilwol

A #164 of any maker has been on my want list for a long time. Smitty is my hero once more!


----------



## corelz125

The Smittysonian does it again.


----------



## HokieKen

I've eyeballed the Veritas version a few times because I like my LAJ so well. But I'm just not convinced I need a low angle smoother too. When I find myself dreaming of a new smoother, it's usually a higher pitched one rather than one slung low.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Stanley and LN 164s.


----------



## HokieKen

I prefer the Stanley myself. For some reason I'm not much of a fan of bronze castings. I'm unlikely to ever own a LN plane for the simple and ridiculous reason that they use bronze on them :-/ Hey, if my wife can make illogical decisions based on silly perceptions I'm entitled to one now and then ;-)


----------



## DavePolaschek

All this talk of low angle smoothers is probably going to convince me to make another low angle smoother out of one of my spare global #3s. Shoulda ordered more plane kits.


----------



## HokieKen

Then you can have one for each hand Dave!


----------



## DavePolaschek

That first one got sent off in the swap, Kenny. I have zero low angle smoothers at the moment.


----------



## Lazyman

Here is someone who modified a NO. 4 to emulate a 164.

My wife came into the shop this afternoon and said happy early Valentines Day. She paid $7 for the lot at a garage sale. Nothing to dream about really but all in pretty good condition.

L-R 

Craftsman rabbet plane with beatup box and missing the rod for the edge guide. Stamped Made in Eng. 
MF 75-01-B block plane
Stanely No 5 . I haven't determined the type yet. Not sure that I have ever seen one painted blue before.


----------



## BlasterStumps

the No 5 looks like it is carrying Record blue paint.


----------



## Lazyman

That's what I thought at first sight but it says made in USA and it's a darker shade than my other Record planes.


----------



## rad457

Better choice Kenny, after I got the L.A. I ordered the 55 deg custom which worked better, but the scrapper plane finally finished the project My only Brass L.N.s are the #102 and #212?


----------



## defrosted

Type 20 blue?


----------



## Lazyman

A quick check and it looks like a type 20.


----------



## drsurfrat

> Type 20 blue?
> 
> - defrosted


Yea, seems to have the folded lateral lever, rounded top of the handle, and probably a 2-pc stamped yolk…7 bucks is great.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thanks for that link, Nathan. I find that for a smoother, I prefer the #3 size to a #4. Except once in a while when I want a 3½ (do such things exist?) or 4½ with a wider footprint.

Nice score by the missus, too! I'd buy that for a buck!


----------



## Lazyman

I don't really need any of them, Dave, though the rabbet plane is a new design I haven't tried before. I may need to see if I can find a cheap edge guide rod for it. That'll probably cost me way more than all 3 planes. I've definitely got more #5s than I need so I'll probably list it on FBMP at some point to sell. It won't need much more than a little grime removal and a sharpening to make it presentable. The MF 75 is my first MF block plane so I'll give that a run too, though I've also got block planes of that style coming out of my ears. I noticed this morning that the depth adjuster may be slightly bent so I will have to play with that to see if I can bend it back without breaking it.

Too bad I didn't stumble upon these before the SS swap, I could have thrown them in the box and still been under the limit.


----------



## HokieKen

I can make you a rod for the fillister plane if don't find a proper one Nathan. Nice score on that lot  That MF block isn't anything to write home about but it'll work.


----------



## drsurfrat

Yea, I think it's a 10-28 for that guide rod.


----------



## Lazyman

Thanks Kenny. I'll let you know if I need your machinist alter ego assistance.

Yeah. I agree that the MF block doesn't look it is much different from the Stanley versions I have. I paid even less for them!


----------



## HokieKen

It's an exact copy pretty much Nathan. I personally typically grab an equivalent that has an adjustable throat if I have a choice when it comes to block planes. Just not a big fan of fixed mouths.

The rod for that fillister plane should be the same as the Stanley 78 and there are loads of those in the wild.


----------



## HokieKen

Don jogged my memory about Buck Rogers planes. I had the opportunity to put the smoother through its paces whe working on some Christmas gifts.









Overall, it makes a fine smoother. Though, like Bailey pattern planes, getting the frog set just right with the proper depth of cut is kind of a pain. On Baileys you have to remove the blade to loosen the frog screws so you have to start over on fettling the depth and lateral after tweeking the frog position.

The Buck Rogers is the same except you also have to remove the screws holding the tote on and slide the tote up to access the rear screw as well. I have read that some advocate leaving the front frog screws just snug so you can move it without removing the blade. I may give that a whirl but it goes against my better instincts.

Eventually I got the blade set right and the frog in the right spot to take shavings that suited me. But increasing the depth of cut even slightly caused the throat to clog. So I ended up backkng it off a tad to give it a little more flexibility.










So I got the performance I expected with about the same amount of fettling as my other MF bench planes. But, I doubt it will ever be my go-to smoother. It's just not comfortable. It's lighter than I would like too. I wish the frog piece was cast iron instead of Aluminum. That would give it a leg up.

But ultimately it comes down to two things. One is that the tote hurts after a while. The hard tennite and the less ovoid shape just doesn't feel good like a wooden tote. And two, the knob is too small, and like most planes, it likes to rotate on me during use. Which is precisely why I became a Millers Falls fanboy in the first place - the knobs won't spin.

On the plus side, they got the depth adjuster, lateral and lever cap right. I much prefer all three over the Bailey pattern. And for folks that prefer a lighter weight plane, this one has an edge there. But it's not enough to make it the plane I grab most of the time.

It's a really neat plane that performs well and has some nice innovations for the time. I wish they had continued to iterate on the design and make it more useable but electron eaters were taking over the market at the time so it fell by the wayside.

I'm glad I acquired these planes and they'll get to stretch their legs from time to time. But they just fall a hair short when it comes to being every day users.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dialed in as a smoother









.


----------



## adot45

Pretty sweet, happy for ya,


----------



## Lazyman

I just noticed that decorative base under the front nob on the 164. Not sure I've ever seen that on a vintage plane before. Pretty neat.

Kenny, Have you thought about making some new wooden scales for the BR to see if you can make it more comfortable? You've already got a replica of the front nob. You could store the stock ones in a bag filled with nitrogen or Bloxygen to preserve them for future generations.


----------



## Mosquito

Damn, take a couple day break to watch the kiddo while daycare is closed, and Smitty comes up with a Stanley 164! Very nice Smitty, congrats!


----------



## bandit571

The decorative base on the front knob…is where you adjust the opening for the throat on that plane…about the same as a Stanley #62's front end….

The "Mos Plane" at work..









Along with the #102…..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thanks Mos, and Bandit is correct.

The 164 will not get a lot of use, being notoriously prone to chipping at the mouth, but will not be display only either. Hardwoods? I'll continue to rely on the LN copy (ductile iron) for that. Same as knotty stuff.


----------



## HapHazzard

> I have read that some advocate leaving the front frog screws just snug so you can move it without removing the blade. I may give that a whirl but it goes against my better instincts.


I would think that would depend on whether or not there is a frog adjustment screw at the back of the frog. (My Stanley #5 has one, but my Buck Bros #4 doesn't.) Not only does the adjustment screw help keep the frog from moving back & forth, but it's arguably less useful if you have to remove the blade and loosen the frog before you can use the adjusting screw.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I have read that some advocate leaving the front frog screws just snug so you can move it without removing the blade. I may give that a whirl but it goes against my better instincts.
> 
> I would think that would depend on whether or not there is a frog adjustment screw at the back of the frog. (My Stanley #5 has one, but my Buck Bros #4 doesn t.) Not only does the adjustment screw help keep the frog from moving back & forth, but it s arguably less useful if you have to remove the blade and loosen the frog before you can use the adjusting screw.
> 
> - HapHazzard


Having the frog adjusting screw certainly makes finding the correct frog placement much easier when you remove and replace the frog. It's a feature that is not used often but I, for one, appreciate having it when it is there and miss it on my T17 planes without it.


----------



## bandit571

The Buck Rogers plane did not use a frog adjuster screw,,,no room.

Once I have a frog set where I want it( coplanar with the ramp at the back of the mouth) I never need to adjust the frog, again…..The frog adjust does help when putting the plane back together, during a rehab….but, that is about all I've found any use for it.

"Oooh, I HAVE to tighten up the mouth opening!" Yep, and then listen to the plane chatter….

Maybe…after a frog's face gets a good flattening (and 10 layers of paint removed) one could move the frog forward a tad, to make up for lost material….

A "tight mouth" usually results in a clogged up mouth. Best way to "close up the opening" is to simply move the chipbreaker closer to the edge of the iron…..the one on that M-F No. 9 is set 1mm back from the edge. never had any chatter…works great, even when the Aromatic Red Cedar has a few knots….and, never clogs up. YMMV…


----------



## DLK

> Don jogged my memory about Buck Rogers planes. I had the opportunity to put the smoother through its paces whe working on some Christmas gifts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


A now that I have the Jack(714) I need the smoother (709). I will put pictures of the cleaned up No 714 tomorrow. I just need to Sharpen the blade and maybe flatten the sole.


----------



## controlfreak

Almost bailed on my window hand tool only project and got the table saw and DW735 planner out. After that moment of weakness I honed the iron in my No. 6 & 7, put the board in my vise and hand rip sawed it. Plane to a perfect square and got a much needed workout. It's all good.


----------



## donwilwol

question for you buck rogers guys

https://www.timetestedtools.net/community/vintage-hand-tools/millers-falls-714-buck-rogers-cap-iron/

I recently came across an old MF 714 "Buck Rogers" plane I am trying to refurb and get functional again. Unfortunately it is missing the cap iron/chip breaker. I am having trouble finding the one made for that plane and was curious if anyone knew of another cap iron that would fit and would be more common and easier to find.


----------



## HokieKen

No wood on the Buck Rogers Nathan. Then they wouldn't be Buck Rogers ;-)

The BR planes have three screws to lock the frog position. Two in the usual spots and one at the back underneath the tote scales. No adjuster screw.

I tens to agree with Bandit about just setting the frog in line with the back of the mouth. But I have been experimenting some lately with "fine tuning" the setup on my smoothers. So far, my thinking is that the mouth opening makes little difference and the chipbreaker makes all the difference. But it's worth further investigation.


----------



## donwilwol

> Almost bailed on my window hand tool only project and got the table saw and DW735 planner out. After that moment of weakness I honed the iron in my No. 6 & 7, put the board in my vise and hand rip sawed it. Plane to a perfect square and got a much needed workout. It s all good.
> 
> - controlfreak


What happened to the pictures?


----------



## HokieKen

> question for you buck rogers guys
> 
> https://www.timetestedtools.net/community/vintage-hand-tools/millers-falls-714-buck-rogers-cap-iron/
> 
> I recently came across an old MF 714 "Buck Rogers" plane I am trying to refurb and get functional again. Unfortunately it is missing the cap iron/chip breaker. I am having trouble finding the one made for that plane and was curious if anyone knew of another cap iron that would fit and would be more common and easier to find.
> 
> - Don W


I dunno Don, there may be something out there that will fit. But it ain't a Millers Falls.


----------



## HokieKen

And now I read better and see it's a chipbreaker and not the lever cap…. No-go there too.


----------



## controlfreak

Here you go Don.









My table saw has had another purpose lately.









Planner is not much better.


----------



## HokieKen

I can take that planer off your hands if you need some extra space CF ;-)


----------



## controlfreak

> I can take that planer off your hands if you need some extra space CF ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


That's what happened to the 6" jointer, glad its gone. Thinking about getting a Harbor Freight dust vac and building an external dust house to put it in. That should free up about six square feet of floor space the shop vac is occupying.


----------



## Lazyman

I don't mind housing your dust collector for you so you don't have to build a whole new house for it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Don K, der Leachmeister has a MF 709 on this month's List, with box…. You said you needed one, right?


----------



## HokieKen

There's one sitting on Ebay for a good deal less too. Seems to be in similar shape but sans box.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Well, the box is everything now, isn't it??
.
.
.
;-)


----------



## DLK

Finished the restoration.










Now I must find smoother.


----------



## HokieKen

For me, the box is something else to store that I don't have room to store Smitty ;-)


----------



## DLK

Kenny and Smitty. I saw the one for $150. Thats too much so I'll wait until I find one in the wild. It would be just vanity for me to buy one for $150 plus.


----------



## corelz125

Nice restoration Don. This months list was a little disappointing compared to some in the last few months.


----------



## HokieKen

Good luck on the hunt Don. $150 is what I ended up spending on mine. The smoothers are just in shorter supply than the jacks.

Now that I think about it, that might be the most expensive plane I've bought…


----------



## DLK

Well I only bought the Jack because at $75 you guys would have strung me up if I didn't get it.

I also have a 1950 brace that I got for $2 to go with it.

How does the 709 work as a smoother? Is there a non-collector reason to have one?


----------



## HokieKen

It doesn't work any better than a Bailey pattern smoother when you get right down to it Don. The depth adjuster has less slop and the lever cap is smooth as butta. Same as your jack. But if someone was looking for a good smoother to be a primary worker, I would steer them away from the Buck Rogers. I just don't find it ergonomic for extended use.


----------



## HokieKen

And I think I ended up paying $70 for my 714 with no knob but then paid another $10 for an OEM knob. So you beat me there. And I don't recall what I paid for my 1950 but it was more than $2!


----------



## DLK

BTW my 1950 has a barber chuck and not a lealand chuck. It also has a red painted wood head and handle. There are catalog photos that show it with a barber chuck.


----------



## rad457

> Good luck on the hunt Don. $150 is what I ended up spending on mine. The smoothers are just in shorter supply than the jacks.
> 
> Now that I think about it, that might be the most expensive plane I've bought…
> 
> - HokieKen


You got the Veritas L.A. Jack for less than $150.00? $309.00 CAN. here! (Still on Back order) in Canada?


----------



## sansoo22

Bedrock Type 3 605C I've been working on and blogging about is all done.


----------



## DevinT

Ooo, very nice shaving, sansoo!


----------



## Peteybadboy

Sansoo That is beautiful!


----------



## HokieKen

> Good luck on the hunt Don. $150 is what I ended up spending on mine. The smoothers are just in shorter supply than the jacks.
> 
> Now that I think about it, that might be the most expensive plane I've bought…
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> You got the Veritas L.A. Jack for less than $150.00? $309.00 CAN. here! (Still on Back order) in Canada?
> 
> - Andre


Oops, forgot about the LAJ. That's my most expensive plane ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Sansoo,


----------



## controlfreak

Another example of quality work Sansoo! I can't wait the read the blog.


----------



## Mosquito

Do I have to count all the bases with my Fales plane(s)? If so, then that/those are definitely my most expensive lol Otherwise the Phillips patent and Walke-Moore router are probably around tied for me (though I sold my "spare" Phillips patent for about $100 more than I paid for it, even after keeping the 6 irons that I wanted when I bought it, so do I deduct that from the one I kept? lol). After that things get pretty fuzzy with a lot that fall in and around similar price ranges


----------



## HokieKen

If I figured it on a cost per hours used basis, my 45, 46 and 113 are by far my most expensive planes. And they all came from the same over-priced vendor ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Tool costs = Pretty fuzzy = TRUE

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.


----------



## bandit571

I'll keep quite on THAT subject ( No. 71-1/2 @ $35 + $50 in needed parts+ make a case to house it all in)


----------



## drsurfrat

My most expensive was a No. 603 for $170, and only 6 others did I spend more than $100 (No2s, No55s). Well, that doesn't include the piecemeal buildups that may add up to more than that.


----------



## controlfreak

I have no idea what I spent on any plane…except for the one or two I got a really good deal on. Kind of like the gambler that always tells you how much he has won recently but is currently broke.

I should have kept notes but I had no idea in the beginning that I would have this many planes


----------



## DLK

I have a complete 55 with all four boxes of cutters that I bought for $300.


----------



## corelz125

I kept notes on about 90% of the planes I bought. I'm too scared to add it up and look at the total number. There's been a few after I paid I said to myself what did I just do.


----------



## sansoo22

> There s been a few after I paid I said to myself what did I just do.
> 
> - corelz125


My #2 with a near perfect orange frog comes to my mind when you mention that after thought.


----------



## DevinT

I can't keep it a secret any longer.

I bought a sansoo! It's supposed to arrive soon.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I have an excel spreadsheet listing every hand tool I've purchased for the last decade +, along with the price I paid for it. Even have notes on ones I've sold.

It makes for interesting reading.

Congrats, Devin T! You can't go wrong there, that's for sure!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Family photo from the wayback machine…










And, some blockage in a pic that's just shy of nine years old.


----------



## HokieKen

> I can t keep it a secret any longer.
> 
> I bought a sansoo! It s supposed to arrive soon.
> 
> - DevinT


You coulda just bought one of his planes. But I guess you can just buy the cow and never have to buy milk again.


----------



## Ocelot

Good idea, Smitty. I keep all old emails, so I could reconstruct my ebay purchase history. Not too many from other sources, and I can probably remember those.

I'm envious, Devin T.


----------



## HokieKen

That's a great record to have Smitty. I wish I'd have done the same. In truth though Inthink I remember what I paid for most of mine. Which is a paltry sum compared to the smittysonian ;-)


----------



## drsurfrat

Yea, I have a spreadsheet starting 2001. mostly fleecebay. It has a total too, but I justify to myself that it doesn't include the sales I've made…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> In truth though I think I remember what I paid for most of mine.
> 
> - HokieKen


The Smittysonian respects your remembrance, and also concurs the gentleman from Virginia that we probably have too many tools at this point to trust the power of total recall without the modern conveniences of Gates-based sheets arrayed with numbers and dates and descriptions. ;-)

Said sheet, when spread, counts no fewer than 53 block planes, 34 bench planes, 58 specialty/joinery planes and scrapers, 44 H&Rs / moulders (wood), and over 60 saws. We won't go into measuring and marking tools, or chisels and shaves, or bits, braces and other drills, or 'other.'

Yes, I have a tool problem.


----------



## corelz125




----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jealous of that, I am…


----------



## rad457

90 % of the planes/tools I buy the receipts are destroyed, no evidence when the wife asks how much I paid for some thing No access to my E-bay and Lee Valley accounts either!


----------



## HokieKen

Indeed Smitty, my humble collection wouldn't even register on your spreadsheet ;-) I may have a leg up on ya with carving tools though. Them suckers are 'spensive…

One of my more recent acquisitions that I finally got around to flattening and sharpening:


----------



## DevinT

> In truth though I think I remember what I paid for most of mine.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> The Smittysonian respects your remembrance, and also concurs the gentleman from Virginia that we probably have too many tools at this point to trust the power of total recall without the modern conveniences of Gates-based sheets arrayed with numbers and dates and descriptions. ;-)
> 
> Said sheet, when spread, counts no fewer than 53 block planes, 34 bench planes, 58 specialty/joinery planes and scrapers, 44 H&Rs / moulders (wood), and over 60 saws. We won t go into measuring and marking tools, or chisels and shaves, or bits, braces and other drills, or other.
> 
> Yes, I have a tool problem.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Goals


----------



## DevinT

> 90 % of the planes/tools I buy the receipts are destroyed, no evidence when the wife asks how much I paid for some thing No access to my E-bay and Lee Valley accounts either!
> 
> - Andre


This is the way


----------



## Lazyman

My most expensive was the Record 405 via eBay UK.

This is my most recent acquisition. Xmas present from the missus. BIN from eBay that I put on my wish list. MF 07 skew rabbet. It came ready to use and has already seen a little action tweaking tenons on my work bench build. It is either in pristine condition or someone (one of you?) did an excellent job restoring it. Lighting in the shop doesn't do it justice but as you can see from the reflections the nickel plating is in excellent condition.










Not the most expensive but probably in the top 3.


----------



## sansoo22

My most expensive plane thus far was the new old stock #45. I wanted one for awhile and when this popped up I bought it without thinking.


----------



## corelz125

A Record 08 was on the high side for me but it came with 3 irons. So it justified some of the cost. So I like to tell myself. Completing the #444 might be my biggest ticket item.
That looks expensive Sansoo. 
Talking about high price tags and MF07 what's with the one on eBay going for $595?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Indeed Smitty, my humble collection wouldn't even register on your spreadsheet ;-) I may have a leg up on ya with carving tools though.
> 
> - HokieKen


The Smittysonian has a meager assortment of carving tools, 'tis (shamefully) true. There is a six - piece MF carving set though, as I recall. And another small set by somebody (?) that has cool rosewood handles…


----------



## HokieKen

You mean the one listed for $595 corelz. It ain't "going" anywhere ;-)

Good score Nathan. By far my favorite block plane. It can be kind of a pain to get the blade set just right but otherwise it's a peach. I sold Sansoo an extra one I had a couple of months ago. I should have put him and your wife into a bidding war ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

I have the same MF set Smitty. Hate to say it but they aren't some of my better users. Names like Pfiel and Ashley Iles take top shelf for me.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yeah, figured as much.


----------



## ac0rn

Smitty "Yes, I have a tool problem."

You don't have a problem, but someday your estate may have one.


----------



## Mosquito

I have a partial spreadsheet, that spans up until I started buying LN, Red Rose, Crucible, and Walke-Moore lol

I'm looking forward to my complete set of Keen Kutters Devin, just watch yourself, you might get addicted lol


----------



## DevinT

I showed incredible restraint just now by letting a Veritas No 6 fore plane go on eBay for $234.50 when I was ready to snipe it.

...

I need to reserve the political capital for when I drop $1k on an Axminster Trade Ultimate Edge system plus belts, wheels, mops, compounds, jigs, and polished. Just trying to figure out which belts, wheels, mops, compounds, and polishes. Leaning toward ceramic 60/120, trizact (x3 grits), and strop belt, with various compounds and polishes with a sisal, stitched, and loose-leaf mop set.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I think the most expensive plane here is a LN51. But I keep thinking I should buy a Bill Carter at some point.


----------



## defrosted

605 for $60. works fine but the horn popped off…

i mean literally. squeezed the tote and ping.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sansoo, that #45 is beautiful!

Jeff, the plan is disperse them to kids when I'm done enjoying them. In about 30 years.


----------



## controlfreak

I think my best was a 45 that was on offerup. Person was asking $75 but was such a pain to meet with it took months to finally meet. Even that took an entire morning. I looked at it and said it is missing a few parts so I offered $50 for it. I haven't played with it much since I already have one but it is complete. I need to get around to rehabbing it.

Speaking of #45, Sansoo that one looks amazing!


----------



## Mosquito

And looks like it might be a type 12, my favorite


----------



## DevinT

Oh, wow!

He did it! Rob Cosman actually did it!

He made a version of his depth adjuster knob for vintage Record/Stanley hand planes

I just ordered two.

Legend has it, the first time you order from Rob, he rings you on the phone to thank you for your purchase.

Which reminds me, I need a "dead cat sweater" - it's in the low 40's here in the morning and I need a warmer layer for braving our morning walks.

If he does call, I plan to ask if he can do a video on face planing instead of edge planing (I don't think he has done a video on that yet).


----------



## HokieKen

Functionally, I can see the point Devin. But looking at it makes me sad :-(


----------



## DevinT

They could have used a better vintage plane to showcase it.

He wants to sell WoodRiver products, so it makes sense they would use a beat up old plane which makes it look just strange.

I am hopeful that it will look much nicer on my No 8 which is far and away much cleaner than the example on the sales page.


----------



## bigblockyeti

^ You don't like the surface finish or the deviation from form to function?


----------



## HokieKen

I guess I just don't like the look of star knobs in general. Never liked the feel of them either. They do allow one to apply more torque than on a knurled knob of the same diameter but if you need that much torque on your depth adjuster, your lever cap is WAY too tight.

I do agree that the bigger diameter is a functional improvement and a useful one depending on how long ones fingers are. Millers Falls bench planes have 1-1/4" diameter knurled adjusters and they work well for me to be able to adjust depth without taking my hand off the tote on most planes. I know the diameter of Stanley adjusters varied over the years but I think the majority are 1". I know some of them were 1-1/4" too though.

Having used the Buck Rogers planes, I can see the value of the larger diameter.









I haven't measured it but I'd guess it's probably 1-1/2". But it definitely makes it easier to adjust while gripping the tote. Even while making passes you can increment the depth of cut. It looks like Cosman's is a 1-7/8" diameter. Seems excessive to me. But even with the larger diameter, I think I'd still prefer a knurled nut for function. And I'd definitely prefer the knurled nut for form.

And I probably wouldn't like the shiny chrome look on a vintage plane unless the other steel bits were similarly shiny. But one could modify that easily to suit the plane of choice.

So, don't misunderstand me, I appreciate that Rob is addressing what is apparently a problem for some users and making products to fit vintage tools  And while this one's not for me personally, I don't begrudge anyone who uses them if it enhances the usability of their tools


----------



## Mosquito

> [...]
> Legend has it, the first time you order from Rob, he rings you on the phone to thank you for your purchase.
> [...]
> If he does call, I plan to ask if he can do a video on face planing instead of edge planing (I don't think he has done a video on that yet).
> 
> - DevinT


I've only ordered once, and he did.

He has done several face planing videos, if you search for them on his youtube channel.
Just a few that relate:

Hand Planing Wood - Flat, Smooth, and Polished
Planing Wide boards more accurately with Rob Cosman
Hand Plane Wide Boards
Hand Planing Wood - How to Thickness a Board

And I agree with Kenny, I don't like the look of the star knobs. I'm sure they're fantastic in use, but I'm not too concerned about that particular function for that sacrifice in form. I'd rather have the ability to make my own replacements for my Keen Kutters that are worn to a lot of slop than replace it with a star


----------



## bandit571

Looks more like what Shelton and Sargent made. ( think auto-set?)

Maybe adapt a pair of them for the bathtub faucets…....with a white ceramic insert, with ebony "H" and "C" lettering?

Re-invent a wheel.


----------



## DevinT

I like it when a tool disappears during use.

On the topic of adjusters, ever use a Stanley 27 1/2? It's like they weren't thinking when they designed it. Adjuster knob is so far away from the tote only Paul Bunyan could adjust depth without taking his hand off the tote.

I don't have problems with reach or torque (on my type 11's), but the ability to physically feel without looking and to also gain finer adjustment is something that attracts me. I also have suffered from carpel tunnel issues multiple times from computer related work and foresee raging arthritis in my near future.

ASIDE: I have cans of paint in black, gold, titanium, or white that any one could fix the nickel plating if it ends up looking too distracting.


----------



## drsurfrat

Metallic Plance Co had a lot of interesting designs, including the faucet handle. I've got one in my weird collection if anyone wants detailed pics. Not very robust.


----------



## DevinT

> [...]
> Legend has it, the first time you order from Rob, he rings you on the phone to thank you for your purchase.
> [...]
> If he does call, I plan to ask if he can do a video on face planing instead of edge planing (I don't think he has done a video on that yet).
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> I ve only ordered once, and he did.
> 
> He has done several face planing videos, if you search for them on his youtube channel.
> Just a few that relate:
> 
> Hand Planing Wood - Flat, Smooth, and Polished
> Planing Wide boards more accurately with Rob Cosman
> Hand Plane Wide Boards
> Hand Planing Wood - How to Thickness a Board
> 
> And I agree with Kenny, I don t like the look of the star knobs. I m sure they re fantastic in use, but I m not too concerned about that particular function for that sacrifice in form. I d rather have the ability to make my own replacements for my Keen Kutters that are worn to a lot of slop than replace it with a star
> 
> - Mosquito


Thanks Mos!

I will give those a watch (not sure how I missed them - or maybe I have already seen them but just see him using his Wood River 5 1/2 to edge joint so often I just can't remember him doing anything else plane related, dovetails aside).

Well, now I am in a pickle.

Now I don't know what to say when he calls, other than "I'm a huge fan" like some drooling idiot.


----------



## Notw

Sheesh took a couple weeks off from the computer for Christmas and was over 300 post behind!


----------



## DevinT

> Metallic Plance Co had a lot of interesting designs, including the faucet handle. I ve got one in my weird collection if anyone wants detailed pics. Not very robust.
> 
> - drsurfrat


Link is 403 forbidden when I try to visit it.

I have seen the occasional odd plane with a faucet handle. Can't say it was all that fetching.

Personally, if I could have any wheel, I think one with detents would be nice. Being able to "feel" advancing 0.001" would be interesting I think.


----------



## DevinT

> Sheesh took a couple weeks off from the computer for Christmas and was over 300 post behind!
> 
> - Notw


That's how I feel about Gunny's Garage on occasion


----------



## drsurfrat

Metallic Plane also had the Palmer and Storkes patents, one of which had 3 levers under the blade; also not very robust, but very interesting.


----------



## DevinT

I don't think that looks bad at all


----------



## Mosquito

Edge jointing because it's easier to get a good looking super thin shaving when you don't have to worry about the feathered edge of the iron fraying the shaving on you 

I almost bought a Metallic Plane Co. jointer a couple years ago at an MWTCA meet because I thought it looked neat, but we couldn't come to agreement on a price, so I am without. Still neat planes though. Similar to my combination plane addiction, I've become more interested in weird bench planes lately than full sets like I used to (hence I finally started selling off the Stanley Type 11's )


----------



## drsurfrat

Bad - no, flimsy, yes. Note the bent laver cap bar and the barely-hanging-on cap iron screw and the folded lateral lever mechanism.


----------



## DevinT

On the topic of poor form, I never liked the look of Hock blades due to the lack of keystone shape at the top like Stanley blades. The square top just looks strange to me. I am sure they work fine (never used one yet), but it's just not what I am used to seeing so looks strange.

If I had a chance to evaluate one and see it's function perhaps I could find beauty in its form.


----------



## sansoo22

> If I had a chance to evaluate one and see it's function perhaps I could find beauty in its form.
> 
> - DevinT


My guess is no. I had one once and while it performed really well I could not get used to the square edges and neither did my knuckles. Working the lateral lever was a royal pain in the ass because those damned corners kept getting in my way. After about 2 weeks I slapped it on a restored plane and sold both off.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree Devin, they do look sorta "off" when you're used to the typical shape.


----------



## HokieKen

I had one Hock blade as well and never really found any advantage. It didn't seem to take any better of an edge than my vintage irons and if the edge retention was better, it wasn't significant enough for me to notice it. And it took longer to sharpen (probably just because I use a single-bevel edge). But all-in-all it didn't inspire me to want more. And when I sold that plane, the Hock went with it.


----------



## rad457

I have hock irons in my LN 102 and LN Brass spoke shaves, they are thicker to the point that the spoke shaves required some mouth adjustments, makes for a very tight fit which for me is a good thing for detailed work.
All of my Krenov planes have Hock irons and I am very happy with them. (When I actually use them
All the users at the bench have PMV-11 blades. Even the 407 now.


----------



## Ocelot

nevermind


----------



## Ocelot

What I meant to say is … that looks like the star knob on a Stanley #72 chamfer plane, and I know Crosman has a couple of them. I imagine it was loosely based on that design.


----------



## DevinT

Thoughts on the below?

Leather Plane Hanger










HINT: Probably doesn't need to hang completely vertical.


----------



## DevinT

> nevermind
> 
> - Ocelot


He makes it for LN planes too but currently sold out


----------



## HokieKen

I'd have to *really* trust the leather and the stitching Devin.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I like the Hock blades in older planes, where the factory blades are thinner (looking at you, Stanley), and in spokeshaves. I also use Hock blades in most of the things I build that need blades, because Ron has always had what I've needed available, unlike some other vendors (looking at you, Lee Valley). But when LV got their plane kits back in stock, I ordered 4, plus 3 spare blades, so I'm relatively set for the moment.

The corners on Hock's replacement blades might bother me more if I used them as often as I use my LN planes. Or I'd take them to the grinder and "fix" that. I've got three or four carving knives in shapes Mora doesn't make because I wanted to see how they'd work.


----------



## Notw

> Thoughts on the below?
> 
> Leather Plane Hanger
> 
> HINT: Probably doesn t need to hang completely vertical.
> 
> - DevinT


 
John Malecki uses something similar in his shop but I'm not sure what the brand is, I'd have to rewatch the youtube video again


----------



## Notw

So as I was looking through my favorite place to lose money today I ran across a plane I hadn't seen before. It is listed as a Stanley 2314-1 router plane prototype. Does anyone know anything about these or have used one before?


----------



## DevinT

> Thoughts on the below?
> 
> Leather Plane Hanger
> 
> HINT: Probably doesn t need to hang completely vertical.
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> 
> John Malecki uses something similar in his shop but I m not sure what the brand is, I d have to rewatch the youtube video again
> 
> - Notw


Digging his style


----------



## HokieKen

I've seen a similar plane before Notw but can't remember who made it or what it's purpose was. It looks like some sort of dado plane to me.


----------



## DevinT

> So as I was looking through my favorite place to lose money today I ran across a plane I hadn t seen before. It is listed as a Stanley 2314-1 router plane prototype. Does anyone know anything about these or have used one before?
> 
> - Notw


Doubt it was a prototype-looks special purpose like a Stanley 171 door mortiser which is basically a router plane with totes instead of knobs.


----------



## DLK

> Thoughts on the below?
> 
> Leather Plane Hanger
> 
> HINT: Probably doesn t need to hang completely vertical.
> 
> - DevinT


Unless there is some sort of spring behind the leather I would think over time it will be difficult to remove a plane for use one handed.


----------



## Notw

> I ve seen a similar plane before Notw but can t remember who made it or what it s purpose was. It looks like some sort of dado plane to me.
> 
> - HokieKen


Dado plane was what I was thinking but it looks like it would only be for one width blade since the part of the body that sits below is already made.


----------



## Ocelot

Martin J. Donnelly auction sold one (2314-1 plane) October 8, 2005, according to their site. They included this info in the description.

Length: 7.000in.
Maker : STANLEY (Unmarked)
Condition: GOOD+
Estimate: $350.00 - $750.00
SOLD: October 08, 2005
A rare "STANLEY PROTOTYPE" ROUTER PLANE. Were it not for the documentation published in the now-defunct "Stanley Collector News" few collectors would be aware of this prototypical Stanley router plane. Equipped with the standard issue handles and blade fixing yoke, the body of this experimental plane is marked with a casting number "2314-1". Only a few examples of this plane have been found, indicating that the plane was either distributed for testing, or that the original batch somehow found their way to the market after having been tried and found wanting by Stanley. Unmarked in any way, but of sufficient authenticity to warrant inclusion in the magazine that was for several years the Bible of Stanley Tool Collecting, we are proud to offer this rare experimental Stanley plane.


----------



## corelz125

The look of the Hock iron doesn't bother me. The Autosets and Gage planes have different looking irons also. Ron Hock also is pretty helpful when you have a question for him.


----------



## Mosquito

I have no shame in admitting I prefer IBC irons over Hock irons specifically because of the square corners


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> Well, now I am in a pickle.
> 
> Now I don't know what to say when he calls, other than "I'm a huge fan" like some drooling idiot.
> 
> - DevinT


Just don't get confused and call him a huge drooling idiot ;-p


----------



## HokieKen

> I have no shame in admitting I prefer IBC irons over Hock irons specifically because of the square corners
> 
> - Mosquito


I thought the IBCs had the traditional shape with the angles at the top?


----------



## bandit571

Random plane photo bomb….note that handle line-up, behind it….


----------



## HokieKen

I spy some grocery store chisels Bandit. Got a couple sets myself.


----------



## HokieKen

Bite me myloan.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Pay me myloan.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Support me myloan.


----------



## Mosquito

> I thought the IBCs had the traditional shape with the angles at the top?
> 
> - HokieKen


Exactly. I meant I prefer IBC over Hock because of Hock's square corners


----------



## HokieKen

Ahh. Gotcha. The corners on Hock blades have a small radius which is what confused me. I thought you were saying you'd like them better without any radius at all ;-p


----------



## Mosquito

I had a Hock iron once, in a #4-1/2 that had a severely pitted iron (and only 1/2" left). I got the Hock mainly because I already had an IBC in a #5-1/2, and wanted it to try Hock for comparison sake. I sold the plane with the iron, and can't say I've missed it. I do like O1 steel for the edge it takes, but I'd rather sharpen a little less often, and not have [rounded] square corners lol


----------



## Mosquito

And this was a long while ago too lol 









Was back when I was working on the work bench (9 years ago?) on a bench lol


----------



## HokieKen

I don't know that I've ever had any A2 irons. O1 suits me fine for the most part. But my issue with the Hock I had was that the keenness and retention seemed about on par with vintage OEM blades but it took longer to sharpen. So I was sharpening it just as often and taking longer to do it for similar results. This is in comparison to Millers Falls irons though which I think are a bit thicker than most and some claim are of better steel. I haven't use any other vintage irons enough to have an opinion. I do know that PMV-11 blows my MF blades away in terms of edge retention and is about equal in terms of how sharp of an edge I can get. If I ever replace any of my bench plane irons, it'll be with those


----------



## bigblockyeti

I'm not even sure if my #4 has A2 or O1, I am sure it doesn't have PMV-11 as that's kinda what I wanted after I found out about it but since it, among several other things, was a gift I can't complain.


----------



## rad457

Still hoping that L.V. will bring out a PMV-11 iron for the new Stanley #62! 
Was another company advertising a "new age" metal blade but no new #62 irons yet? Of course I have now lost their email address.


----------



## HokieKen

How about a "year in review" for 2021?

In 2021 I acquired 2 planes I figured I'd probably never land for a reasonable price. My Millers Falls #24 (#8 size) popped up at a jaw-droppingly low BIN price on Ebay and I happened to be the lucky sucker that snagged it. I believe it's also the only #24 that was listed on Ebay all year  That left the only size I lacked for a full till being a #7 (#2 size). The few I saw for sale were WAY out of my price range. But, MF also made that plane for Sears under the Fulton brand. The Fulton 3708s are far more common than the Millers Falls version but still generally sell for a whole lot more than I was willing to pay for a "placeholder". But, one popped up on Ebay with a Best Offer option so I shot an offer over assuming it would be laughed at. And instead it was accepted a few hours later 

So I officially filled my till with all of the sizes of bench planes MF made last year  I still hope to eventually score a proper #7 but a rebranded one suits me pretty well until then.

I also acquired both of the Buck Rogers planes in 2021. Which were never on my "must have" list but were definitely on my "like to have" list. So now I just need a 209 DeLuxe Smoother to fall into my lap in 2022 ;-p









I guess we all know what Smitty's dream-maker was in 2021 ;-) How about the rest of ya?


----------



## controlfreak

I didn't get as many projects done as I would have liked but did have a few small victories. I finally set and sharpened my back saw for my miter box, my first time trying it cuts mush better now. Since this is a plane thread the other was my first plane rehab going the shinny Sansoo22 route. He was very nice and helpful but I imagined that he was thinking "oh no, another question?" Not perfect but it looked nice and the wife didn't bat an eye when I brought it in to bake it. I guess that massive exhaust hood was a good Idea. Only problem is I have quite a few planes that need rehabbing, (putting procrastination glasses on). Starting to eyeball adding onto the shop but I need to relevel the existing, permits? we don't need no stinking permits.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

There's a No. 22 on the 'bay right now, Kenny!

My '21 dream-maker was the same for each of the previous 5+ years… it was the hand plane of my dreams, I guess. Is there another on the horizon? Not sure there's anything more in the Stanley universe (think Blood and Gore) that really has my attention. The bedrocks have never done anything for me (only have one, and that's enough). Not crazy enough to filter to a full set by only being "Type 13", that's just not me. Got all the block derivatives that have any merit. Not one for upgrades, either. The No. 196 has been out there and interesting to me for quite a while, but Patrick says "...if you have more money than brains, and want to use this contraption…" So that has killed it for me, mostly. 'Cause I'd want to use it.


----------



## HokieKen

Wow, it must be nice to run out of planes you want Smitty ;-)

I saw that 22 but it's a Type 5. Equivalent of a Handyman IMO. My type 2 #22 suits me fine


----------



## MikeB_UK

Guess my 2 best purchases were the 1970's Goldenberg Jointer & the much older infill, mostly for getting them really cheap 









I made a few though.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Did I mention I wouldn't mind having a Bill Carter? I sure wouldn't. I'd even learn to set a plane by whacking it with a mallet.


----------



## Lazyman

I watched Bill Carter's entire series for making one of his planes. I would love to try making one. Of course he has years of experience but he really makes it look doable, even for a hack like me.


----------



## DevinT

Random plane photo. I think it is hard maple, it's just a random cutoff I grabbed from my bin.

Needed this piece to be flat on one side. Doesn't need to be smooth, just flat. The No 8, working across the grain and then with it got it flat in under 10 minutes (including the time it took to clean up afterward).


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, that 4 1/2 looks a bit familiar!

Still my go to smoother.


----------



## DevinT

Edge jointing … end grain … with a Bevel Down plane … without a shooting board … in hard maple … pulling 0.00025" to 0.0015" thick shavings … edge to edge … end to end.























































With a surprise visit from Dave Polascheck card scraper (thanks Dave!)










Here is one of my favorite tricks. If you have this starrett accessory, it makes a great square checking tool for edge jointing



















A look at some of the shavings


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Beautiful stuff, Devin!

Traversing some spalted maple.










Jointing with old Heft & Hubris, face and edge. Even thiugh pic only shows edge.










Smoothing with 4 1/2.


----------



## RWE

I picked up some interesting saws in 2021, but that is another thread. I bartered and swapped for several planes.

Never had a fractional plane. 4 1/2 Stanley (swap)

Could not find a #40 anywhere (swap/barter)

Never saw a KK Keen Kutter till I stumbled over this KK65 block plane. (found in the wild)

Saw a couple of Winchesters at a collector's building full of tools. I fell in love. Got this Winchester #3 sized smoother made by Sargent. (barter)

I have the Union #6 in the process of being restored and the nifty little Fulton block plane from the Christmas swap.

So 2021 was not a bad year. Early on in my hand tool obsession, I would buy off of Ebay. I have learned to like the hunt. I prefer to try to find things in the wild. As I have stated, in my area of the country, you don't have the variety that other parts of the country offer. This year there was more swapping and bartering.


----------



## HokieKen

Good stuff all. Thanks for the pics 

But Devin, mixing units (in and mm) brought down the Challenger. Let's not do the same to this thread ;-)


----------



## ac0rn

After selling three items, the final cost of the serendipitous acquisition this spring was negative $10. However, I was more so interested in the saws, than the planes. Does that mean I could have used any of those planes for santa?


----------



## Mosquito

Glad to hear the 4-1/2 lives on Kev  I liked that plane, it was my first wide smoother.

I don't recognize that #8 Devin's got, do I?

I don't remember what all I bought in 2021… I had some good work bonuses that I got to spend in/on the shop, so I got a few. LN Shoulder planes, Walke-Moore router, a BUNCH of Fales bases. I think the thing I'm most excited about, which has bled in to 2022, is getting all of my Keen Kutter bench planes to where I should have gotten them to years ago (or truth be told well beyond where I would have).

And the only plane( r ) work I've been doing lately may not be appropriate for this thread lol


----------



## 33706

> How about a "year in review" for 2021?
> 
> In 2021 I acquired 2 planes I figured I d probably never land for a reasonable price. My Millers Falls #24 (#8 size) popped up at a jaw-droppingly low BIN price on Ebay and I happened to be the lucky sucker that snagged it. I believe it s also the only #24 that was listed on Ebay all year  That left the only size I lacked for a full till being a #7 (#2 size). The few I saw for sale were WAY out of my price range. But, MF also made that plane for Sears under the Fulton brand. The Fulton 3708s are far more common than the Millers Falls version but still generally sell for a whole lot more than I was willing to pay for a "placeholder". But, one popped up on Ebay with a Best Offer option so I shot an offer over assuming it would be laughed at. And instead it was accepted a few hours later
> 
> So I officially filled my till with all of the sizes of bench planes MF made last year  I still hope to eventually score a proper #7 but a rebranded one suits me pretty well until then.
> 
> I also acquired both of the Buck Rogers planes in 2021. Which were never on my "must have" list but were definitely on my "like to have" list. So now I just need a 209 DeLuxe Smoother to fall into my lap in 2022 ;-p
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess we all know what Smitty s dream-maker was in 2021 ;-) How about the rest of ya?
> 
> - HokieKen


On the subject of Permaloid, here's my (Australian) Turner #4 plane which supposedly predates the MF example by a few years.



















I'm still trying to perfect a recipe for coloring translucent epoxy resin to match the originals, the molds are ready to go!


----------



## DevinT

My No 8 I bought on eBay, March 14, 2021, and then replaced the blade with NOS iron and replaced the tote/knob with custom Bubinga ones made by Michael K Woodworks which I refinished by removing the shellac, sanding, and polishing for a more natural look.


----------



## DanKrager

Isn't it getting time to start another thread? This one has over 11,000 posts!

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

I can't say I'm a huge fan of the Permaloid look or feel PK. But it's the only Millers Falls bench plane I don't have other than the #7 and I at least have a rebranded one of those. I will say though the permaloid is tough. I have an old set of Stanley 60 chisels that have taken some serious beating and keep on keepin' on. So I feel sure the comparatively soft life of hand plane handles is a walk in the park for the material. There is something appealing about the look of the chromed-out everything with the permaloid handles on the 209 that make it kinda sexy to me 

Jeff, you could have sent ALL those planes for the Secret Santa! Nice score on that lot!

This thread still loads pretty fast for me Dan. I'm sure Cricket will let us know when it's time to roll over to a new one.


----------



## bandit571

Remember when this lot of toys came in my mail box?









With the deal being I rehab one plane, and send it back?









I could then rehab and keep the other 6 planes..









Hmmm…and, this on top of the 3 planes MOS sent me?

Wasn't too bad of a year, plane wise..


----------



## corelz125

Do we have to show all the planes acquired for the year or the more memorable ones?


----------



## HokieKen

Just your favorites Corelz ;-)


----------



## BlasterStumps

Hey Mike, nice work on those wood planes. Lots of nice work. I presume you are set up to make threaded wooden pieces like in that plow plane. Nice. I like the dowel cutter. Not easy to make one of those that works good. I know, I have tried a few times.



> Guess my 2 best purchases were the 1970 s Goldenberg Jointer & the much older infill, mostly for getting them really cheap
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I made a few though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - MikeB_UK


----------



## Ocelot

Hmmm.

When I look into the question of planes aquired in '21 I see I might have a problem. I really didn't need any more planes (except maybe good wooden H&Rs). 

2021 Planes (and parts)

7 Stanley planes (one now given away). 5 bench and 2 specialty planes.

29 woodies of various kinds, American, English, Dutch, Russian, Chinese.

1 drawknife,

... and a cam rest for my 45. (sung like "and a partrige in a pear tree")


----------



## 33706

> Hmmm.
> 
> When I look into the question of planes aquired in 21 I see I might have a problem. I really didn t need any more planes (except maybe good wooden H&Rs).
> 
> 2021 Planes (and parts)
> 
> 7 Stanley planes (one now given away). 5 bench and 2 specialty planes.
> 
> 29 woodies of various kinds, American, English, Dutch, Russian, Chinese.
> 
> 1 drawknife,
> 
> ... and a cam rest for my 45. (sung like "and a partrige in a pear tree")
> 
> - Ocelot


Yup, the wooden H&R's are on my wish list too, and just when I got a decent run of 'em, piece by piece, I saw a listing for a complete set of H&Rs …by 16ths!! So I guess I own only a half-set? Oh, yeah, I do own a #7 hollow, so only 15 more to go!


----------



## BlasterStumps

I only bought one plane last year, a basic Record 405 set:










It has just sat in the box since I brought it back to the shop. Haven't even tried to sharpen any of the cutters.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The No. 239 doing it's thang on some spalted maple that will become a small dovetailed, sliding-lid box.


----------



## HokieKen

Good to see it stretching its legs Smitty! I have to say, of all the similar dado planes like the 78 and 278, that 239 is the most comfortable one I've had in my hands.


----------



## rad457

Did buy a couple of #46, ($$) an some Really nice Custom made blades($$$$) Still need to build a box for that one!
My SW #62, A record 050 and a #79, #98, #99 think there were a couple of Stanley #5 that were set up as Jacks
Did part with a #98 and a Real nice Crafstman? Which for some silly reason was replaced with a Handyman????
Hard to remember and really try not to leave any paper trail or evidence


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Hey Mike, nice work on those wood planes. Lots of nice work. I presume you are set up to make threaded wooden pieces like in that plow plane. Nice. I like the dowel cutter. Not easy to make one of those that works good. I know, I have tried a few times.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Cheers Mike

Yeah, the dowel cutter means I can now go from rough lumber to threaded rod, took a while to get it to work right - the trick seemed to be no sharp edges on the iron so it doesn't catch, over camber the iron.


----------



## Notw

Kind of dangerous listing our planes here, my wife could log on one day and see all that I bought in 2021, which would be:

Stanley No. 5-1/4 
Stanley No. 6
Stanley No. 5-1/2
Stanley No. 4-1/2
Stanley No. 130
Stanley No. 220
Stanley No. 18
Stanley No. 7 
Stanley No. 8

I really think I'm going to like the 18 when I finish with it, already have the knuckle shining, just need to get it painted and reassembled.


----------



## corelz125

The memorable ones are 
Record 311
Stanley 94
Record 08
Union 8
Ohio 02
V&B 904
Stanley four square 5 1/4


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Picture…









Had to use the small stuff, today..


----------



## Mosquito

Glad to see the middle size one get some reps in bandit


----------



## DevinT

My first sansoo plane is set to arrive today. Can't wait!


----------



## HokieKen

Photos or it didn't happen!


----------



## DevinT




----------



## DevinT

Pink bubble wrap was a very nice touch.


----------



## DevinT

There will be more photos after flattening, squaring, and polishing. Then will come testing.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Good grief that is one beautiful plane!


----------



## rad457

Kenny had to ask for Pictures Some one doodled all over it?


----------



## DevinT

I wasn't going to post pictures until after it was spit shined, but Kenny had to ask


----------



## Mosquito

I wonder if that pink bubble wrap came from me… I sent a healthy dose of it his way lol

Plane looks like it'll be sweet, I'm sure you'll enjoy it

Also, is that a baby sign language poster on your door?


----------



## HokieKen

That how your wife makes you communicate Mos?


----------



## DevinT

It is indeed baby sign language. We heard babies learn to communicate with their hands before they find their voice.


----------



## HokieKen

My brother and his wife used sign language with all their kids. It was effective and they said well worth the effort. Of course by their fourth they were too tired to require more than a please when he wanted something;-)


----------



## Lazyman

The only signs my one of friends' kids learned was more and MORE!. The exclamation point was added with a shrill grunt when they weren't quick enough. Please would have been an improvement. Might have been because it was the 3rd one and they were just too tired too. I always wondered if it slowed down them trying to talk (the kids not the parents).


----------



## Mosquito

haha Our son has "all done", and "more" pretty well down lol Still working on the rest. Will sometimes get water, but not so much with the thumb and pinky thing. He knows what they mean too, because when he's hungry he keeps doing more and pointing at his highchair… if you're holding him for too long and he wants down, he starts doing all done frantically lol


----------



## rad457

Sounds a little like the Wife, the holding and all done part
See the L.V. LAJ with PMV-11 back in stock, After getting that SW #62 last year, do I really need it?


----------



## HokieKen

Not unless you want to sell the Stanley IMO Andre. I love my LAJ but can't think of any reason I would need two unless I was just dedicating one to a shooting board.


----------



## DLK

I taught graduate and undergraduate Computer Science theory classes at R.I.T. The R.I.T campus was adjacent to the campus for the Technical Institute for the Deaf and they shared facilities. We had many deaf students in our classes and they each came with a interpreter who would stand to right of the chalk or blackboard and sign what I said for the students. One very fun thing to do was to say something like: "Consider a very very very very small number" and watch all the deaf students laugh while the non-deaf students had no clue. Apparently the sign for very was to spread the the index and middle fingers wide to make a V on both hands and then press the tips of these fingers on one hand against the same fingers on the other hand in a sweeping motion in front of the chest. If very is repeated rapidly enough, then inevitably the interpreter would miss and the V-fingers of the two approaching hands would interleave. This is the sign for ********************.


----------



## DevinT

Not bad for one day's worth of work … I'd say.


----------



## Lazyman

I might need to learn those signs, Don. Just don't teach them to babies. Bad enough when they screech for more. You don't need them flipping you off too.


----------



## HokieKen

That's funny Don  If only all professors were so clever and devious I may remember a little more from those hellish math theory classes! Unfortunately there were no deaf students in there…

I did have one mildly racist physics professor who lacked much of a social filter, was tenured and beyond an age where he could retire if he wished anyway. He was a good teacher but was easily flustered by stupid questions. So if an Asian student asked a question that flustered him, he would inevitably give a smart-ass answer in a poor impression of the student's accent. The first time he did it, everyone was completely dumbfounded. But after the third time or so, those students would snicker when he did it so the rest of us figured we could release the breath we had been holding. By the end of the semester, I think those students of Asian descent were trying to provoke such a response. Even the ones that were obviously US born and normally spoke with no accent would fake a touch of an accent when they asked a question ;-p

This was pre-Twitter/TikTok and in the very early days of Facebook and when Blackberrys and PDAs hadn't yet been replaced by smart phones. So he was never "cancelled". Just accepted for what he was and passed lots of knowledge along to thousandths of modern engineers and physicists.


----------



## donwilwol

So I guess he didn't believe in the " the only stupid question is the one not asked" philosophy!


----------



## HokieKen

LOL Don. I actually wrote an essay for an English class in college on the absurdity of the idea that "there is no such thing as a stupid question". I got the idea when the professor, after digging through a couple of bags, pulled out her pen and said "why are things always in the last place you look?"



> Not bad for one day's worth of work … I'd say.
> 
> - DevinT


How high did you polish that thing Devin? Sure is shiny but if that plane's a user, it's not likely to stay that way for long ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

For me, things are never in the last place I look. I always keep looking just so that isn't true. Of course my wife always says that when looking for something in the pantry I just open the door and say "I can't find it".


----------



## DevinT

> Not bad for one day's worth of work … I'd say.
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> How high did you polish that thing Devin? Sure is shiny but if that plane s a user, it s not likely to stay that way for long ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


I almost bought this plane except it didn't have a Type 11 iron, and I didn't feel like hunting one down.

I want to see if I can make a plane look like that.

I know it won't stay that way forever, but:

1. It was unacceptable in the condition I received it in (winding sticks showed twist, ruler showed the entire plane was only riding on two thin high spots, and the scratch pattern looked like 40 grit or even "dragged on asphalt" look, let alone a deep gouge).

2. Remove signs of abuse, not signs of use. ... except when you want your use to be the only record because there were no signs of prior use

3. It only took about 30 minutes and look how shiny!


----------



## DevinT

Random note:

Things are only perpetually in the last place you look if you never make lists of places to look


----------



## Notw

Finished restoring my Stanley no. 18, took a little extra time on this one because I wanted the knuckle cap to shine.


----------



## Lazyman

I thought they were always in the last place you looked. Why would look after you found it?


----------



## RichT

> Things are only perpetually in the last place you look if you never make lists of places to look
> 
> - DevinT


If something is not in the last place you looked, doesn't that mean you kept looking after you found it?

A clerk-er, I mean administrative assistant-at a company I worked for marveled at that. She was amazed that she always found things in the last place she looked.

She also once organized a pizza party for the department. When she said how many pizzas she had ordered I did some quick figuring and said well, that's only two slices per person if there are eight slices per pizza. She said it was OK because these pizzas are sliced into 12 pieces so everyone will get three slices.


----------



## HokieKen

A distinction has been drawn between things being in "the last place you looked" and in "the last place you could *think of* to look" ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

> Finished restoring my Stanley no. 18, took a little extra time on this one because I wanted the knuckle cap to shine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Notw


Sweet! Those knuckle caps sure do polish up shiny


----------



## TedT2

That no. 18 is gorgeous. Love the knuckle cap…I am entertaining the idea of working on mine this week. I am stuck home with Covid and bored out of my mind.


----------



## DevinT

Sure love a shiny tool! Excellent work, *Notw*


----------



## rad457

Dang! almost makes me want to go out an give the MF 07 some attention


----------



## GaryCN

The Stanley #78


----------



## DevinT

I've never understood why there are two blade positions.

Simply to allow conversion to a bull nose affair?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yes.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I ve never understood why there are two blade positions.
> 
> Simply to allow conversion to a bull nose affair?
> 
> - DevinT


Theoretically yes, although I've never used mine for that. Here's a picture of my Record 778 sporting the front knob from my WS Birmingham A78, and that is an excellent use for the front position. It provides better control and it is much more comfortable to use than any of the multitude of other ways that I also tried.


----------



## Notw

now to start restoring my No. 8….can't I just ship it to Devin????


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Hand tool in same picture as power tool?
Blasphemy! 
Keep that up, and you will forfeit your #78.
:-(0)



> - GaryCN


----------



## DevinT

> I ve never understood why there are two blade positions.
> 
> Simply to allow conversion to a bull nose affair?
> 
> - DevinT
> Theoretically yes, although I ve never used mine for that. Here s a picture of my Record 778 sporting the front knob from my WS Birmingham A78, and that is an excellent use for the front position. It provides better control and it is much more comfortable to use than any of the multitude of other ways that I also tried.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Kent


Very creative. I like it!


----------



## HokieKen

LOL CK. My router table is serving as a second plane till at the moment too ;-)

78 is a handy plane to have Gary. But it's an awkward SOB to hold for me. A knob like Kent has is on my to-do list.


----------



## bandit571

That is what is nice about those Sargent No. 79s..









They had a small handle made out in front….


----------



## corelz125

Find one of the #78s with the front piece cut off. Then you can get into tight corners.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Yep, that front position on a 78 is for a knob or horn : )









Not a Stanley. Possibly a Wards


----------



## sansoo22

Devin - I apologize the plane was not to your liking. I haven't had a complaint thus far on my planes but everyone is due for a dud eventually and I guess my number was up. I will gladly give a full refund if you wish to return it. I will even cover return shipping.


----------



## DevinT

what? No. I'm good.

Besides, I've already put a couple hours into it.

End of day 2 …




























*EDIT:* I hope there is no offense taken. I like to put a personal touch on things. There is a glowing review of your work pending. As a new parent I don't have enough time to both write a review of the initial plane, perform the modifications I want to try, and blog about those modifications, with a final project posting at the end. I was planning on just making the modifications, highlighting the beautiful work you did, and explain what I observed (like minor sole twist which could have happened in transit) and what I decided to change.


----------



## DevinT

*sansoo*

This is how it arrived. I suspect something happened in transit. Your work is excellent, but the sole had twist.



















Not sure what happened there, but I believe that nobody but yourself, myself, and the USPS system touched it as my mail carrier handed it to me personally.


----------



## sansoo22

No worries Devin. I wasn't sure if you were polishing to how you like it or you were not happy so I offered the refund option just in case because I felt it was the proper "customer service" thing to do. I totally get putting your spin on things. I don't know if I own a tool that isn't modified or has plans for a mod at some point.

I have no clue how that package arrived like that. That was a brand new unused crisp and clean flat rate box when it left my house. I'm just thankful it showed up in one piece. My mail carrier is an awesome lady that knows everything I ship is fragile. What happens when it hits the distribution center is anyone's guess though.

Regarding the twist I swear I checked it like all others. I start with a machinists straight edge looking for any places it may pivot. I then check all four corners with the straight edge and a feeler gauge. Finally I put every plane #5 size and smaller on the surface plate and check the entire thing with a feeler gauge. I should have noticed if opposite corners were high because that's a dead giveaway there is twist. However I did have my late cancer patient of a dog to take care of while I was working that plane and its entirely possible I missed something in my final checks.


----------



## DevinT

Got to spiff it up for Catherine Kennedy ^_^


----------



## controlfreak

> I have no clue how that package arrived like that. That was a brand new unused crisp and clean flat rate box when it left my house. I m just thankful it showed up in one piece. My mail carrier is an awesome lady that knows everything I ship is fragile. What happens when it hits the distribution center is anyone s guess though.
> 
> - sansoo22


Once it hits distribution center they shoot packages out of cannons.


----------



## corelz125

Should of gave it a few test runs and see how it performed before going crazy with it Devin.


----------



## DevinT

I bought it to modify it and I have little shop time these days. Starting from a known good place at the highest quality gets me closer to where I want and need it to be.

It is only because it is a sansoo that I can even focus on the things I am doing. If it was a rusty resto I would be focusing on more germane tasks.

I honestly don't want to know how it performed before. I am sure without any hesitation whatsoever that it worked fine.

I plan to test drive the iron before sharpening it. Though I suspect it will be fine, despite the fact that I haven't even taken the chip breaker off yet to look at the blade.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree with Corlez. Sansoo gets such good results from his planes that I wouldn't have been able to resist driving it a few laps first. Even if I was gonna polish it and/or change the setup, it's always helpful to me to see how other people fettle their planes (and tools in general) and compare and contrast with my own methods and results. But of course in the end, it's your plane now and I have no doubt it'll be gorgeous and do its job well!


----------



## DevinT

Well, part of the issue is that Nathan decided to call me out for:

1. A supposed design flaw in my kerfing plane

2. Supposedly being too lazy to make a prototype to prove or disprove the above flaw

And so a couple days before the sansoo arrived, I started work on a stupid prototype for Nathan - while also maximizing the Galoot Index of said prototype (as a personal challenge) by making it entirely by hand.

Less than 24h before the sansoo arrived, I just finished squaring 3 sides of the maple I am using for the prototype (which only requires 3 sides to be surfaced). The next tasks are going to be using a hand drill to bore some holes and then using the draw knife and spike shave to give it a nice shape.

Honestly, when the sansoo arrived, it interrupted my rage and I am in no mood to faff about with anything right now.

Do I love the plane? Yes.

Would I have liked to have test driven it? Of course.

But right now I just want to make it supreme, add it to my arsenal, and then use it for the task I see it best suited at doing …

Being used like a galoot to prove Nathan wrong with a quick kerfing plane prototype.


----------



## DevinT

So you see, there is a simple explanation for me not doing my usual:

A. Purchase

B. Gushing

C. Testing

D. More gushing

E. Then modifications

Nathan pissed me off and I am not in a mood to ******************** around right now.

*EDIT:* If you want to see what got me heated, just read the last few posts on my kerfing plane thread


----------



## HokieKen

LOL. I don't. But Nathan pisses me off a lot too so I understand.

Not really Nathan ;-)


----------



## DevinT

So, you see, the way we should take this situation is that sansoo planes are so perfect out of the box that if you happen to be having a bad day and want to use it for therapeutic purposes but have nothing to plane at the moment, the only thing you can really do to it is polish the body.


----------



## DevinT

Honestly I might put a pause on this therapy and switch to just wailing on a bench chisel, he made me so mad.

*EDIT:* but I am trying to stay productive


----------



## HokieKen

No judgments Devin ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

.


----------



## DevinT

Right now, I have to rob at least 3 people to get shop time:

1. Work
2. Spouse
3. Infant

So Nathan is pretty scorched-Earth right now for forcing me into robbing those three people continually to satisfy his own personal need to be right (when all he had to do was wait until the actual Shaper-made prototype was to be produced following the final development of the fence shape and handle contouring; but instead he chose to hammer the same topic for 4 months and essentially take over my thread).


----------



## HokieKen

To be fair, unless Nathan is signing your checks, you're under no obligation to meet his deadlines. And if you block him, he can't comment on any of your threads. And I lied and went and read the last several posts on your thread…

And I refuse to fan any flames on this site but I genuinely value both of your participation here so I will say this: you're both absolutely correct ;-) And I mean that sincerely. I won't go into detail because I'm not taking sides. And I'm not taking sides because I truly think both have valid POVs.

So y'all wrestle it out or kiss and make up. I don't care which. I would watch video of the first one though if you post it on Youtube. But please keep it in that thread and don't let it spill over?

Unless it's Corelz. You can flame that dude all day. He sucks ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

My Sansoo rehabbed planes have been great, though I didn't take them to my scrap granite either (I don't have a a real surface plate either, so can't say for sure what flat is anyway I guess,. Or so I've been told… Who was it that was preaching you had to be within .0002" back in the day?). I'm not sure I've gotten a board to stay thousandths flat in my life, and don't expect I ever will, so as long as the results I get work for my needs, I don't often bother to check anymore. But I used to, so I won't blame those that do ;-)



> So Nathan is pretty scorched-Earth right now for forcing me into robbing those three people continually to satisfy his own personal need to be right
> 
> - DevinT


From the sidelines, it looks like you suffer from the same need . No one is "forcing" you in to your shop but you, unless you have a retail/customer deadline, which you committed to. So just stop caring, work at your pace, and "see when we get there".

Other than that, I have no further opinions to express, as I can't say I really care one way or the other to be honest (I.e. I agree with Kenny. Ouch, that hurt on the way out )

Been a while since we turned it in to handplanes of your drama


----------



## HokieKen

> My Sansoo rehabbed planes have been great, though I didn t take them to my scrap granite either (I don t have a a real surface plate either, so can t say for sure what flat is anyway I guess,. Or so I ve been told… Who was it that was preaching you had to be within .002" back in the day?)....
> 
> - Mosquito


Said what had to be within .002"? The surface plate or the plane? Surface plate depends on grade. But unless it's very large, it has to be much flatter than that. For instance, my Grade A 12×18 surface plate has to have <.00008" of variation over the whole surface. Grade AA would be half that and Grade B would be double that. So yeah if you want to be REALLY flat, get a surface plate and learn to print and scrape. But that would be absurd for a handplane ;-)

FWIW, scrap granite like backsplashes or countertops is usually plenty good for sanding handplanes. Any deviation is averaged out. So check it on your surface plate if you're so inclined but you can flatten it on a countertop scrap and get it close enough.


----------



## Mosquito

There was someone that was arguing that the sole of the plane had to be less than .0002" at any given point to be considered usable/acceptable for woodworking. Surface plates are a whole different animal. I don't remember the exact number that they were using to say it had to be within for the plane sole, but either way lol

I have and use two pieces of scrap granite in my shop (one long fireplace surround one counter sample) so not saying not to use them by any means. I can also guarantee that mine won't be the same flatness as anyone else's either lol

Edit: Looks like I missed a 0 in my original post earlier


----------



## HokieKen

Gotcha. .0002" is excessive for a handplane to say the least. And the only way you're getting there is with a surface grinder or by hand scraping. Either way, you just spent a buttload of money and/or time ;-) Oh and BTW, if your cutting edge isn't dead straight and dead parallel with the sole, it was all in vain…


----------



## Mosquito

that is more or less the summary of the interactions before they disappeared lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> … while also maximizing the Galoot Index of said prototype ….
> 
> - DevinT


Yay, a shout-out to the Index! Thanks for the smile, Devin. BTW, you do insanely good work.


----------



## bandit571

Have always found the best place to keep ANY feeler gauges to be where they belong…in a drawer right with the Ignition Wrenches…in the Car Mechanic's Tool Chest…..and NOT in a Woodworking Shop.

All I ever use to get a plane with…is the 2 finger test….place one finger on either end of a plane(usually the plane is sitting on a flat surface, like the bench of tablesaw) and see IF it rocks….2 finger centered on the ends, then diagonally on the ends….no rocking going on? clean the sole up a bit and put it to work.

Have found 99% of the Iron bodied planes out there do NOT "warp"....but, wood bodied ones do. An iron sole will get slightly out of flat….from a few decades of use…and the "out of flat" is just from wear…or a user using the plane a certain way….

Go out and look how the tread on your tires wear….then imagine said tire on a bad rim, or not aligned….Tire wasn't made that way, but use or abuse caused those bald spots or cords sticking out the sides….

Mirror bright soles look nice….come back after a full day of use, and see how they look then.


----------



## Lazyman

LOL. It is always fun to be blamed for someone else's bad behavior. I will take the blame for mine. And don't worry Devin. I've already promised not to provide anymore input on your project. Sorry I didn't realize you did not want it. I truly was trying to make sure that you were successful, not poke you in the eye.


----------



## RichT

> LOL. It is always fun to be blamed for someone else s bad behavior.
> 
> - Lazyman


Nathan, you know darn well that it's your fault that I'm a troll!


----------



## Lazyman

Guilty!


----------



## DevinT

> Mirror bright soles look nice….come back after a full day of use, and see how they look then.
> 
> - bandit571


Unless it has a clear coat


----------



## sansoo22

I believe my surface plate is a Grade A. It came with a certificate of accuracy showing where any deviations were but I can't seem to find that sheet now. Which is odd because I have the manuals for everything in my shop including a Lincoln face shield.

For larger planes I ordered a Grizzly cast iron table saw wing. I intend to build a stand for it with an incorporated clamping mechanism for holding a couple grits of sanding belts at the same time. I never thought I would need to do that but I'm currently booked solid for commissioned plane work and recently started taking orders for planes I have in inventory but not yet restored.

If all goes well I will soon be placing an order for a large Grizzly belt/disc sander which should let me fly through #5 and smaller planes. Will need to keep a couple beater plane bodies around to test on first though.


----------



## HokieKen

Clear coating planes is something I've pondered more than once. Not so much for abrasion resistance like on the sole but for corrosion resistance on the cheeks. I've never actually put the rubber to the road though and tested anything so I'd be interested in any results if you try any products. I'm unaware of anything that could withstand the abrasion the sole sees but there are thousands of people (and a few manufacturers) that would love to find one


----------



## DevinT

I have been looking into adding one of these to the shop so I can restore everything up to No 8 sized planes


----------



## HokieKen

> I believe my surface plate is a Grade A. It came with a certificate of accuracy showing where any deviations were but I can t seem to find that sheet now. ...
> 
> - sansoo22


Grade A is by far the most common. If I had to wager money on it, I'd say most companies grind to Grade A specs and then when they certify them, if it's good enough they give it an AA and if it doesn't meet the A spec they sell it as a B. I have a small AA and a larger A. But, I haven't had the AA recertified in over a decade and I've never had the A certified and I'm not particularly gentle with them. So they are probably both encroaching on B-grade territory these days. In the shop here, all of the AA inspection plates are kept in a climate controlled semi-clean room and are covered when not in use and cleaned with a special solution every time they are used. Mine don't live nearly as cushy a life ;-) The QA manager would probably birth a calf on the spot if I asked if I could attach a sheet of abrasive to one of his with some spray adhesive and flatten a handplane.


----------



## sansoo22

> I have been looking into adding one of these to the shop so I can restore everything up to No 8 sized planes
> 
> - DevinT


I think a 6×80 or larger edge sander would be a better choice. The nicer models come with a cast iron table you can use as a reference surface which will allow you to lap and square all 3 sides of the body on planes up to a #8. The Grizzly G1140 is on my wish list just for that purpose.


----------



## HokieKen

Tread carefully with powered belt sanders. There is a LOT of art to getting something even small relatively flat on one. And they can remove material fast enough to ruin your day before you know it. And cast iron is even worse to grind like that because the hardness varies so greatly over a surface due to carbide formation and distribution during casting. Not saying it can't be done or shouldn't, just saying it's gonna be a learned skill and not just a technical exercise ;-)


----------



## sansoo22

> Tread carefully with powered belt sanders. There is a LOT of art to getting something even small relatively flat on one. And they can remove material fast enough to ruin your day before you know it. And cast iron is even worse to grind like that because the hardness varies so greatly over a surface due to carbide formation and distribution during casting. Not saying it can t be done or shouldn t, just saying it s gonna be a learned skill and not just a technical exercise ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


I have been keeping an assortment of bad plane bodies around to attempt to learn this skill with. Anything broken, brazed, with hang holes, or super pitted will be donated to the cause.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, that's a good opportunity to bring out your dead!


----------



## rad457

LOL! Few chuckles but after looking at Krenov's work and using some of his Hand planes ya got to laugh when ya hear the term thousands of an in. in relation to wood working! His only use for Sand Paper was to flatten the soles of his planes (220 gr.)


----------



## Lazyman

I'm getting better!


----------



## Ocelot

> Tread carefully with powered belt sanders. [...]
> - HokieKen
> 
> I have been keeping an assortment of bad plane bodies around to attempt to learn this skill with. Anything broken, brazed, *with hang holes*, or super pitted will be donated to the cause.
> 
> - sansoo22


For me, at least, hang holes make a plane un-pretty, not un-good.


----------



## sansoo22

> For me, at least, hang holes make a plane un-pretty, not un-good.
> 
> - Ocelot


I don't personally disagree but the market says otherwise. I can't restore a plane with a hang hole and turn a profit so they get bought as parts planes.


----------



## controlfreak

I have made a plane clean and flat but just don't have the desire to polish to a mirror finish. I just don't have that kind of time knowing what I am going to do with it, scrape it across an abrasive wood surface over and over again. But it does look pretty.


----------



## Mosquito

My parents used to have a mini van with chrome wheels. My dad swore never again, as we'd spend hours polishing the damn things every year lol
(clarification, those "hours" were spread out over a few occasions a year, not just once)


----------



## DevinT

> I have been looking into adding one of these to the shop so I can restore everything up to No 8 sized planes
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> I think a 6×80 or larger edge sander would be a better choice. The nicer models come with a cast iron table you can use as a reference surface which will allow you to lap and square all 3 sides of the body on planes up to a #8. The Grizzly G1140 is on my wish list just for that purpose.
> 
> - sansoo22


Ooo, I didn't know that Grizzly made such a thing. The first time I learned that such machinery existed was when I heard the Axminster folks talk about "linishers" and I went to look up what a linisher was and found those machines.

Thank you for cluing me in that there are domestically operated companies (like Grizzly?) that can offer such machinery.

/me takes a quick moment to look up the specs on the Grizzly G1140 (crossing my fingers as I look up the voltage requirements, hoping for nothing crazy)

WHAT? IT CAN RUN ON 110? THAT'S CRAZY!

I was prepared (for the Axminster) to add a second 220 outlet, and now I find out that Grizzly makes a better machine for the same cost that can actually run on 110? I am impressed. (I wonder if it's worth wiring for 220 anyways-if there is a difference in performance)

This definitely just hit my radar. Will have to read some reviews, but I think it's safe to say that it just replaced the Axminster linisher.

ASIDE: I'm still pretty set on getting the Axminster Ultimate Edge for sharpening-the linisher or grizzly 6×80 is to get something bigger than my Bucktool 4×36 which I don't feel comfortable working anything larger than a No 5 sized plane on


----------



## DevinT

> Tread carefully with powered belt sanders. There is a LOT of art to getting something even small relatively flat on one. And they can remove material fast enough to ruin your day before you know it. And cast iron is even worse to grind like that because the hardness varies so greatly over a surface due to carbide formation and distribution during casting. Not saying it can t be done or shouldn t, just saying it s gonna be a learned skill and not just a technical exercise ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> I have been keeping an assortment of bad plane bodies around to attempt to learn this skill with. Anything broken, brazed, with hang holes, or super pitted will be donated to the cause.
> 
> - sansoo22


I can share what I have learned so far …

1. Zero pressure-let gravity do the work. Not even the slightest down pressure anywhere. None (as much as you can avoid it).

2. Keep it moving. Left-to-right to cover the width of the belt. It's OK if you go over the edge a little.

3. Use your wrist to test the temperature. When you start, the iron will be cold (literally; it will feel cold on your wrist). Work the metal and if at any point it feels warm or god-forbid hot, stop! Also, if at any point you start to see any gray spots, stop. Do not attempt to cool the metal forcefully. You can spray DNA or Isopropyl on it but definitely do NOT put in water (that would be a no-no). As the metal cools, that gray spot will disappear. Keep a finger near (but do not push down) the sole to gauge temperature of the metal while it is sanding. Stop if it gets warm.

4. Your neck will start to hurt from constantly looking down. Mount a mirror at an angle so you can point your head straight and only move your eyes to see that as you continually (at a fast pace) move the plane left and right, that you are also keeping the plane on the belt and not fish-tailing the back end of the plane off the belt.

5. Don't run dry if you can avoid it. I put Lubricut on the seam of the belt (which is usually the high spot of the belt) so that as the belt comes around the wax picks up the swarf, collects it, and cools, applying a thin coat of lubricant to the metal, each and every time it passes. This allows me to go 5x longer in a single sitting without having to stop due to the metal heating up. It's a god send. It doesn't smell too great, but it performs well. I also use it for cutting steel and tapping. It's a wax, so it doesn't get every where (I use a popsicle stick to smear it on the belt so when I turn on the belt it doesn't go flying-really smoosh it into the belt; applying it to the seam makes it easy to track where I put it and how much is left when I break between visits to the belt).

6. Get yourself a prostick or similar block of rubber for cleaning your belts. This both removes the metal and the waxy build-up from the Lubricut.

7. Aluminum Oxide for grits 400 and below, Silicon Carbide for grits 600 to 1000, and whatever Red Label Abrasives uses for their 1200 to 5000 grit belts. No cut wax on the Red Label belts … instead, polishing stuffs.

8. DNA, Isopropyl, or Acetone will remove 2 things quickly that hamper you at the higher end grits. First, the cut wax will leave a film when you approach a mirror finish, and secondly, your shop is likely to fill up with particles of hot rubber all over the place because you will be cleaning your belts about every 3-4 visits to the belt. As you wipe down the plane, it invariably happens that a piece of rubber got on your cloth and STREAK! right down your mirror polish-just hit it with some alcohol or acetone and it'll pick that right up.

9. Re-apply the cut wax between visits

10. Always wear full PPE. A thick heavy leather apron is great because those rubber particles from the prostick used to clean the belts just wipe right off (can't say as much for the car behind me … I don't recommend cleaning the belt with the car in the path of the debris … otherwise do what I do and stand in the path of the debris and let it hit your apron and then just wipe it off).

ASIDE: Shout out to Gunny for the apron. Still loving it!


----------



## bandit571

There is/was an Antique Tool dealer around my next of the woods…who would spray a thick coat of Clearcoat all over the tools….a ROYAL PITA to remove. He never bothered to even take a tool apart, well.MAYBE he'd take the wood parts off…...and never bothered about any rust…any pitting was filled in solid with clear coat.


----------



## Ocelot

> For me, at least, hang holes make a plane un-pretty, not un-good.
> 
> - Ocelot
> 
> I don t personally disagree but the market says otherwise. I can t restore a plane with a hang hole and turn a profit so they get bought as parts planes.
> 
> - sansoo22


Makes sense to me! This is the "handplanes of your dreams" thread, not "flat boards of your dreams". Sorry, I lost track for a moment - or a month or whatever. Yes, Happy New Year. Uh. 

Good point. You have good focus on what you are doing.

-Paul


----------



## HokieKen

Just bring that 444 when you come ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

> My parents used to have a mini van with chrome wheels. My dad swore never again, as we d spend hours polishing the damn things every year lol
> (clarification, those "hours" were spread out over a few occasions a year, not just once)
> 
> - Mosquito


When I started shopping for my motorcycle I was dead set on flat black paint and satin finish on the bare parts. No way I'm gonna spend more time cleaning it than riding it. Took a while to find it but it was worth the wait. I hose it down a couple of times a month while my son probably spends two hours a week cleaning his gloss black chromed machine


----------



## DevinT

> Just bring that 444 when you come ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


LoL!


----------



## Mosquito

> When I started shopping for my motorcycle I was dead set on flat black paint and satin finish on the bare parts. No way I m gonna spend more time cleaning it than riding it. Took a while to find it but it was worth the wait. I hose it down a couple of times a month while my son probably spends two hours a week cleaning his gloss black chromed machine
> 
> - HokieKen


Exactly lol


----------



## DevinT

I found this article to be a good read


----------



## HalR

I posted this over in hand tools but was advised someone here might have some idea of what is going on with this Sargent plane. https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/316899#reply-5449622

I recently found a Sargent 409 VBM at a Recycle store for $8 and went about restoring to add to my working toolset. Everything went smoothly till I tried to re-install the front knob. The brass screw/nut descends almost 3/4" into the knob before it makes contact with the base. I know the screw should be flush with the top. I found a wad of paper stuffed into the knob by the previous owner to try and take up some of the slack, but it definitely was not done correctly. I'm trying to understand if there is some kind of spacer missing, or this knob is not original, or it was bored out for some reason? It turns out the post is not long enough even if I try to use a spacer because the nut barely makes any contact with the post when it is already just below the surface.


----------



## corelz125

Parts on that plane aren't original. A little hard to see but it looks like that's not a Sargent lever cap. So either the knob or the rod aren't original.


----------



## HokieKen

Hal, if you can measure how long your brass nut is and how much longer it needs to be, I can make you one that will work with the rod and the knob you have and you won't need any spacer.

Corelz, is that thread the same #12-20 as Stanley uses?


----------



## donwilwol

The thread on a Sargent is different. They did make a long and short brass nut, the pictures doesn't show which is on the plane.

I would just make a wood plug if it was mine. If the hole is the right diameter at the top.

It looks like it might be a Stanley knob. The brass nut on a Stanley was larger, so the hole would be sloppy as well as not the right depth


----------



## HokieKen

> The thread on a Sargent is different. They did make a long and short brass nut, the pictures doesn t show which is on the plane.
> 
> I would just make a wood plug if it was mine. If the hole is the right diameter at the top.
> 
> It looks like it might be a Stanley knob. The brass nut on a Stanley was larger, so the hole would be sloppy as well as not the right depth
> 
> - Don W


I suggested the wood plug Don but he said that the threaded rod was too short and the nut wouldn't engage until it was below the top of the knob. He's either gonna need a longer rod or a longer nut. Do you know what size that thread is?


----------



## HokieKen

Here ya go Corelz. This will get you started on your 24 ;-)

And what the heck happened to your comment yesterday about coming to get my #24? Did that get flagged? That's ridiculous!


----------



## bandit571

Happen to have these 2..
.









0.412" diameter..longer one is 0.742" long…shorty is 0.510" long

Address to send these to?


----------



## HokieKen

Excellent Bandit  Those are the right threads for the Sargent?

PM Bandit your address Hal. He's good for having what folks need and being generous with it ;-)


----------



## adot45

Way to go Bandit! Very nice of you.


----------



## bandit571

Shorty's shaft is..0.192" in diameter,and the longer shaft is..0.195" in diameter…I think they are from Fultons…


----------



## HokieKen

Sounds like a #10 thread. If it's a standard 10-24, Hal could probably go get a long bolt or piece of all-thread and just cut the length he needs to make the nut he has work?


----------



## donwilwol

I believe it's a 12/24 national thread

Did we find out what the existing nut looked like and if the top hole was 27/64" like a Sargent or larger like a Stanley?


----------



## HalR

Wow! Thanks for all the responses! You guys really know your stuff so I decided to send more info and pics just to satisfy the curiosity! Please let me know your thoughts! I measured the nut length and it is 3/4". Post length is 1 1/2". Knob height is 2 1/8" tall. I just looked at the post threads and this is definitely not a standard 10-24 thread. Nut does thread onto existing post but I would call the fit "sloppy" as it is very loose on the threads. I'm betting the 12/24 is more likely the size.

I figure I can make a new post from a long fully threaded bolt so that is not a big issue, I am just curious why the knob didn't work in the first place?


----------



## drsurfrat

I think the simplest answer is 'wrong knob', possibly edited to fit the post


----------



## donwilwol

And a japanned cap. They're kinda rare!


----------



## donwilwol

And I didn't notice before, but they look like rosewood in the pictures. A vbm should be mahogany


----------



## corelz125

The lever cap is original. You have a nice solid plane there Hal.
I would be trying to complete that #24 for the next 20 year's Kenny. Stanley #8 frogs are hard enough to find forget about a MF one. It wouldn't be the first time one of my comments were removed. Big star wars fan Kenny?


----------



## HalR

OK I was searching for a similar knob/post as I have on my plane and found the following EBAY listing. 
This shows the exact knob/handle I have on my plane and states they are from one of the early planes. I think I do have a pretty early model. I looked at both nuts and one seems a bit tighter than the other. I will use that one on the Knob, but unfortunately the post is cross threaded on one end as whoever last worked on it tried to force it into the base. The base threads are still OK though. I actually just need to replace the threaded post and for some reason use at least a 3/4" long spacer to take up the slack inside this older knob. It must have had something there in the beginning.

By the way Don, early VBM's were originally Rosewood as these are..










https://www.ebay.com/itm/115166496232?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=115166496232&targetid=4580496732614416&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=418233788&mkgroupid=1230353745471221&rlsatarget=pla-4580496732614416&abcId=9300542&merchantid=51291&msclkid=a9a6ae5078971f5f00e3cf8f320384de


----------



## HokieKen

Not as big of a fan as some corelz but I've probably spent more time watching the movies and series than I should admit… I don't have any costumes or collectibles though ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

I think a new rod and a spacer is your best path forward Hal. Sounds like the rest might be original and even if it's not, it ain't broke.


----------



## donwilwol

Ugghh, not the long link curse!!

Yes, very early vbms could have left over rosewood, but it's pretty unusual. A japanned cap with rosewood is extremely unusual, but we can expect anything with Sargent.


----------



## corelz125

Don is that a definite jappanned lever cap or a shop painted one?


----------



## HokieKen

It looks pretty legit to me just from tbe pics. I don't know if Sargent japanned or used enamel but whatever it is looks original based on the look of the plane.


----------



## donwilwol

> It looks pretty legit to me just from tbe pics. I don't know if Sargent japanned or used enamel but whatever it is looks original based on the look of the plane.
> 
> - HokieKen


They used japanning. The pictures look right. But who knows.


----------



## bandit571

Road trip, today…results?









Looks nice? Missing a cutter…









That's one way to keep a "Match" set together…









A pair of Stanley No. 7s….front one is a 7c


Code:


$135....Back one is a type 19

 $150….Pass…









There is still a plane til….









Some were just piled up on a shelf….meanwhile, up the road in Urbana,OH…...









A Store called the Boston…has a "Back Room" note that red arrow..price tag said $65….









I figured that was enough for a Stanley No. 8c, Type 19…..With sales tax, it came to just under $70…

Do not go upstairs, despite the sign saying "Man Cave"...as this is all it has…









And that rusty No. 101 was $25? Jack is a Stanley No. 5, Type 19….already have 4 of those….
Just walk in the front door, and go all the way to the back of the store….


----------



## bandit571

Of course…IF you do like wooden planes….









When you can see this while walking down Aisle 8….hang a right..and, look up…









There was another booth at Heart of Ohio…that looked like someone had dumped an entire Snap-on truck's contents on to whatever racks they could find…..

IF you happen to go to Heart of Ohio Antique Center…plan on about 3 hours of walking around….and, watch your step….never know what is on the floor…









Might hurt..


----------



## rad457

Pulled the 4 1/2 out for a little fun, ended up comparing the Veritas L.A. smoother and H.A. #4, The 4 1/2 was my favorite








Not sure of type, Made in England and by the looks of the finish may have been restored?


----------



## DevinT

Very productive last two days in the shop


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Dang bandit….looks like a blast. Wish we had one that packed around here.


----------



## RichT

> If it was a rusty resto I would be focusing on more germane tasks.
> 
> - DevinT


I always try to focus on germane tasks. Mundane tasks… Now that's another story. I hate those.


----------



## HokieKen

> Dang bandit….looks like a blast. Wish we had one that packed around here.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


+1 Most folks think the east coast is a good spot for rust hunting. But not so much south of the Mason-Dixon. I'm trying to talk my wife into taking a vacation to let me spend a week in New England peeping leaves and picking tools. So far she's agreed to another leaf-peeping cruise "someday"...


----------



## HokieKen

> Very productive last two days in the shop
> 
> - DevinT


Lookin' great Devin. Have you been using the Barricade on other tools? I use a similar oil and it does great for keeping rust at bay with my rifles but I always have to clean it off before use. Seems like it may have too much tack for a plane sole and may transfer to the wood? I've never tried it on tools and never used Barricade specifically so I'm curious of your experience with it


----------



## bigblockyeti

> Dang bandit….looks like a blast. Wish we had one that packed around here.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts
> 
> +1 Most folks think the east coast is a good spot for rust hunting. But not so much south of the Mason-Dixon. I m trying to talk my wife into taking a vacation to let me spend a week in New England peeping leaves and picking tools. So far she s agreed to another leaf-peeping cruise "someday"...
> 
> - HokieKen


Are you going to toss your bike in the back of your truck when you head up?


----------



## HokieKen

If I'm allowed to I certainly will ;-)


----------



## DevinT

> Very productive last two days in the shop
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> Lookin great Devin. Have you been using the Barricade on other tools? I use a similar oil and it does great for keeping rust at bay with my rifles but I always have to clean it off before use. Seems like it may have too much tack for a plane sole and may transfer to the wood? I ve never tried it on tools and never used Barricade specifically so I m curious of your experience with it
> 
> - HokieKen


I am going to try putting paste wax over the coat of barricade to seal the barricade in and give the surface a nice feel that I can also just wipe finger prints off with a dry cloth.

Will let you know how it goes. This is an experiment, but I think it will work well. If it goes well, the barricade should keep things rust free and the paste wax should do double-duty in making it easy to clean dust off while also reducing the effect of friction.


----------



## Ocelot

Bandit,

Is that a 148, 147 or a 146?

I have a 148, which of course makes me want the other two - even if I rarely do any tonguing and grooving.

-Paul

I just realized that Heart Of Ohio is another reason to drive to upstate NY to visit my MIL. It's right on the way.


----------



## Notw

Looking really good Devin!


----------



## Lazyman

Have any of you ever used camellia oil on your tools? Paste wax typically does a pretty good job preventing rust for me and I will scribble a stick of bees wax on the sole when I want to reduce friction but I keep reading about camellia oil protecting from rust and actually making the sole slicker than wax does.


----------



## theoldfart

Nathan, I've been using it for some time now with no adverse issues. Still use bees wax for the sole during use.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

My wife got me a couple lie Nielsen planes a couple years ago for Christmas and they sell Jojoba oil for their stuff and she bought that too. It seems to work fine but you still wax the sole as you work. I don't think anything is made to last long when you're rubbing it along a board.


----------



## ac0rn

I have used both camellia oil and Hoppes gun oil for wiping down tools and iron decks. Never tried to do a comparison test, they both seem to work okay. My rag in a can, and my wipe down cloth (you have one) probably have both products in them by now. The power tool decks also have a get good scrubbing, and a coat of paste wax at least once a year. No rust conditions present.


----------



## bandit571

3in1 oil in a cheap paint brush….wipes down everything…

Plain old Parafin Candle to add some ZIP! to a sole or a saw blade.

That No. 8c I bought yesterday…has a thick coat of ClearCoat…on all but the wood handles. Will take a day or 2 to strip all that junk off….he didn't even bother to clean up any rust, before he sprayed the plane. Even the iron and chipbreaker….then put the chipbreaker on the wrong face of the iron…never heard of a "Bevel Up" No.8c….

Got to looking the plane over a bit better, last night…..yep, a Type 19….handles are rosewood…under a thick coat of varnish that Stanley used. The yoke, is a 2pc steel one….yet Stanley stopped making No. 8c about 1961…hmmm.









Le Frog neighborhood…









The Forcastle….









That be a LOT of grooves to clean..









And this is back near the "Stern"...."Quarterdeck"?

My "other" No. 8 has a smooth sole, and is a Type 7…that Charles Neil gifted to me from his shop..in 2016. It iron is almost worn out, just barely longer than the chipbreaker…..may just retire the old boy, let the younger generation take over?

May start the rehab later….may not be up to Devin's standards….but it will be ready for work when done….


----------



## bandit571

BTW…that little divider laying there? 









Logo says it was by J.Stevens A & T Co. of Chicopee, MASS. Apparently James made more than just rifles and such…...and he was bought out around 1897ish by Savage Arms Co.

Someone long ago made a handle for it, too…








From top of the spring to the pointy ends…just over 3" long…might come in handy?


----------



## ac0rn

Good memories, Savage 311 16ga with plastic stock. Good for chasing rabbits.


----------



## Notw

I am in the same boat you are Bandit, restoring a no. 8c, so many little grooves to clean and sand


----------



## drsurfrat

> Good memories, Savage 311 16ga with plastic stock. Good for chasing rabbits.
> - Jeff


Mine's a Rossi side-by-side, good for chasing quail.


----------



## DevinT

> Of course…IF you do like wooden planes….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you can see this while walking down Aisle 8….hang a right..and, look up…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was another booth at Heart of Ohio…that looked like someone had dumped an entire Snap-on truck s contents on to whatever racks they could find…..
> 
> IF you happen to go to Heart of Ohio Antique Center…plan on about 3 hours of walking around….and, watch your step….never know what is on the floor…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Might hurt..
> 
> - bandit571


I hate you.

Correction: I hate living in a hand tool desert.


----------



## HokieKen

Old Winchester 10 ga. here. Not great for anything but good enough to get Thanksgiving dinner ;-)


----------



## bigblockyeti

> If I m allowed to I certainly will ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


You've got a truck and a bike, sounds like the only discussion would be with gravity and a sturdy (very!) ramp?


----------



## HokieKen

Her name is Stephanie, not gravity. Their effects are equally inescapable though.


----------



## DevinT

Finally bolted the vise down














































So I could do this









































































And this …



















Before finally doing this …





































To end up with this …


----------



## theoldfart

Devin, what brand is your needle file holder with the wooden handle?

Trademark seems to be a horse jumping through a hoop.


----------



## DevinT

So, I have seen blades with "H" stamped on them before, but, ...

This plane *sansoo* found and sold to me is the first one I have ever seen with:

1. Such a crisp and clear "H" stamped on the blade

2. An "H" stamped on the body underneath the tote (as well as a "2" in the same boss relief under the tote.

I am absolutely positively giddy.

There is still much speculation behind the meaning of these stamps (most likely being just location of manufacturing) however the fact that both the blade and the body have it leads me to believe that this plane is special.

When I first saw how crisp the "H" on the blade was - having seen NOS blades without such a crisp stamping - my first thought was …

*sansoo* must have put that there knowing that I love how these blades perform.

ASIDE: I am not convinced that "H" is a location. Sharpening these things requires crazy effort. I would even be willing to say more effort than my PM-V11 blades. I suspect that "H" means hardened - but he jury is still out.

Then when I saw it on the body under the tote, I lost it. Did *sansoo* put that there to mess with me? If he did, hats' off to you sir, well played!

*sansoo* does amazing work, but …

I have heard so much about jack planes being the preferred go-to plane for so long, this being my first I naturally wanted to get to know every inch of it. I suspect that this will become my new favorite plane.

Can it dethrone the Veritas No 4?

I have given it every chance and I believe it will. I have been looking for something with a little more length than the No 4 for slightly longer boards (which are not long enough to pull out the No 8).

Of course, only having (previously) a No 4 and No 8, the No 8 got pulled out quite often even when it was way over kill (basically on anything longer than the No 4 could flatten, the No 8 came out).

As such, holding the No 5 it feels (compared to constantly using the No 8) light as a feather. I don't even feel like I am holding anything. I actually think it feels lighter than the Veritas No 4, oddly.

Next steps before putting this thing to use is to just do the mundane things. Adjust the frog, sight the blade, adjust the lateral, retract, hit the sole with some beeswax, and get the thing moving.

As an aside, I put 3 coats of paste wax over the barricade and I could not be happier. Finger prints disappear within one or two seconds after being touched. Zero finger prints or smudges. I performed friction tests by placing a small block of plywood on the sole and it slides right off simply with gravity's.

The sole is "slicker than snot on a doorknob," as my step-father used to always say. Actually have a hard time holding onto the thing without it slipping through my fingers (if I try to hold it by the body).

There is a full review still pending which will talk more about the little touches *sansoo* did that really surprised me that nobody does.

I am proud to be an owner of another Type 11, expertly prepared by *sansoo* that I then made my own (as I would have done with any plane before use).


----------



## Johnny7

> Devin, what brand is your needle file holder with the wooden handle?
> 
> Trademark seems to be a horse jumping through a hoop.
> 
> - theoldfart


That looks like a Pferd logo, Kevin.


----------



## DevinT

> Devin, what brand is your needle file holder with the wooden handle?
> 
> Trademark seems to be a horse jumping through a hoop.
> 
> - theoldfart


Pferd - French company.

Good eye. I love that needle file holder and it took me forever to find it, but it is available on Amazon. I bet a search for "Pferd file handle" should pull it right up.


----------



## bandit571

Guess I should head to the shop WITH the camera, this time….last , it was merely to haul Heft & Hubris To the shop…
Hour later????..."You'll have that, on the bigger jobs"

BRB…


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I knew stamping an H on every plane I've owned would mean something at some point to someone.


----------



## HokieKen

There's a good chance the H and the 2 identify the casting pattern. It's common to identify tooling in such a way. I'm not familiar enough with Stanley to know if that's the case or not.


----------



## bandit571

Ok….since this is a HUGE plane…treat it like a Battlewagon?

USS Heft & Hubris II…starboard view…









And along the Port side..









A view at the "Keel"..









And a bows-on look..









Bailey on the Bow…."Sea Trials"?









So, should do for a jointer?
Back in port with the "Wussy" No. 7c, T-9









Think it might just be worth the $69 and change? ( that No. 7c was "only" $25, when bought a few years back..)


----------



## DevinT

Heh. I paid $350 for my No 8


----------



## DevinT

My order from Rob Cosman arrived today.

I did NOT get a phone call from him. Just a stupid e-mail saying thanks for your first order.

I am disappointed I did not get the phone call.


----------



## DevinT

This came today. Initial impression is that it is well thought out, well made, and it went on smooth. I need to test drive it, but I think it is going to be magical. Looks real nice in my opinion. Reduces the amount of brass for sure.


----------



## corelz125

When my planes are clean, oiled, and tuned I can turn the adjuster with little effort. The small brass adjusters never gave me a problem. That thing looks like you can get some real torque behind what ever you want to crank on though.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I wonder if there is a dollar amount that gets you a phone call Devin? I've had two calls from the dude so far.


----------



## theoldfart

Johnny and Devin, thank you.

In my Amazon cart!


----------



## DevinT

> When my planes are clean, oiled, and tuned I can turn the adjuster with little effort. The small brass adjusters never gave me a problem. That thing looks like you can get some real torque behind what ever you want to crank on though.
> 
> - corelz125


For me it is not about torque but radius. Larger radius equals finer adjustments.


----------



## DevinT

> I wonder if there is a dollar amount that gets you a phone call Devin? I've had two calls from the dude so far.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


The AdjuSTAR accessories are $39.99 USD a piece and I bought 2 for just under $80 before tax and shipping/handling.

So probably right. Maybe you have to spend $100+ USD or maybe the threshold is in CAD.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I have no clue but wish you would have gotten a call since you wanted one. Super nice dude.

Looking forward to hearing more about the adjustar. I have one millers falls classic but that's it, I still thought about putting one on it if it works with MF planes.


----------



## Lazyman

> I knew stamping an H on every plane I've owned would mean something at some point to someone.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


You too? Dang. I should have used K.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Thanks Nathan, I know most of my jokes are stupid so I appreciate the acknowledgement.


----------



## DevinT

> Thanks Nathan, I know most of my jokes are stupid so I appreciate the acknowledgement.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


I thought it was funny


----------



## DevinT

Does anyone use a side rabbet plane? There is one on eBay for $50 (WoodRiver, used) that I am looking at (though might just buy new, not sure which brand or vintage yet).

Just caught my eye because:

1. Not that expensive

2. Saw WoodByWright explaining how it is used and looks useful

Just not sure how useful and if worth it (other ways to skin the cat?)


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I use these suckers any chance I get!!


----------



## theoldfart

^ +1

You'd be surprised how useful they can be for fine tuning joinery, dados, rabetts, T&G and the like.


----------



## RichT

> Does anyone use a side rabbet plane? There is one on eBay for $50 (WoodRiver, used) that I am looking at (though might just buy new, not sure which brand or vintage yet).
> 
> - DevinT


Here's my WR side rabbet plane in action. I only use it when I need a precise fit for something like a shelf that will be at eye level. The plane is OK. Nothing great. It's hard on your hands and the little blades are a nightmare to sharpen. Once you get it dialed in though, it does do the job.


----------



## Lazyman

I have a #79 side rabbet plane and it helps clean up rabbets when I screw up and don't keep a rabbet plane registered properly against the edge.


----------



## rad457

Started with the #79 and ended up getting a #98 & #99, found the #79 always had the wrong blade out when I went to use it! Both times Nice for a collection but for practical use I think very few people could find a Need?
I am sure that a 1/2 of thou. shaving could be obtained (if polished to a high enough degree)


----------



## DevinT

Thank you all. Especially thanks to *KellyCrafts* and *Rich* for the photos.

Thanks *Andre* and *Rich*, I will look at the Stanley's. Especially 98/99


----------



## DanKrager

You won't regret that decision, DevinT. I have both, and like the others, use them a lot more than I thought I would when I bought the pair.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Devin, there are two styles in the 98/99 planes. The early ones do not have a depth stop, these are the ones I have. So far I haven't found myself needing one. Maybe others here can address why the stop would be necessary.


----------



## DanKrager

The 98/99 without the stop, which I have, tend to dig into the bottom of the dado if you're trimming a sidewall. The blade point protrudes ever so slightly beyond the sole (thousandths) and the cutting action is clean on the full sidewall then. But it may be that it could be adjusted even with the "sole" runner so it doesn't keep digging. But I haven't found that to be an issue and I would rather it clean out the corner nicely. If the area were exposed in the finished product, then it might be a different story.

A stop is desirable in some instances, but I don't miss it.

DanK


----------



## DevinT

Well, the frog adjustment unexpectedly just became a lot easier on this plane after installing the AdjuSTAR


----------



## HokieKen

A 24 popped up Corelz.


----------



## corelz125

Thanks Kenny. Did you see the #22 with the box? It has some nice looking furniture on it.


----------



## bandit571

On that shelf of wood bodied planes…









All the way down to the right, near the bucket…there was a Jack plane…..not markings on it, no frog adjust bolt…handles looked a bit too "Stanley"....yet, it had a Millers Falls ( with the RED paint) lever cap..?

Weren't for the fact I already have 4 No. 14s in my shop…..was unable to read any logo on the iron….was to busy digging up these toys, instead..









BTW…Machinist People….what the flock are these things..









A wooden rack to hold some sort of bit…LOTS of bits…was even "guarded" by a BIG mouse trap…


----------



## HokieKen

> Thanks Kenny. Did you see the #22 with the box? It has some nice looking furniture on it.
> 
> - corelz125


Those Type 5s get no looks from me.


----------



## corelz125

Furniture is nice but the price is ridiculous


----------



## HokieKen

I burned electrons yesterday instead of galootin'. My watch scolded me.


----------



## bigblockyeti

I need to get me one of them thar NSA tracking devices to wear, even better if I can be talked into actually having to pay for the privilege.


----------



## Lazyman

Don't forget to wear your foil hat too.


----------



## donwilwol

I bought a set of these

I have fairly significant hearing loose do to youth stupidity of not wearing things like these.

I got them on sale, and bought them more for the woods, but they seem to work well. They block anything over 95 decibels.

They work well as a phone Bluetooth to. The hearing enhancement isn't great for my level of hearing lose, but better than nothing and I like the protection.


----------



## HokieKen

I do wear hearing protection when running machines. Learned that long ago in a production shop with 30+ CNC machines running around the clock ;-)


----------



## bigblockyeti

> Don t forget to wear your foil hat too.
> 
> - Lazyman


It never comes off!


----------



## ac0rn

I was one of very few switchman to wear hearing protection in telco switch room (32 years). Thankfully. Hearing must still be good, because I can hear Sonia even when she is not talking. :>)


----------



## rad457

Years of selective hearing, Pardon me Dear, what did you say? Ahh the sound of a freshly sharpened plane blade slicing some Walnut! Funny what is crystal clear


----------



## HokieKen

> I need to get me one of them thar NSA tracking devices to wear, even better if I can be talked into actually having to pay for the privilege.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


Whoever has the job of tracking and listening to me leads a very very very boring life ;-)


----------



## DevinT

> Years of selective hearing, Pardon me Dear, what did you say? Ahh the sound of a freshly sharpened plane blade slicing some Walnut! Funny what is crystal clear
> 
> - Andre


+1


----------



## controlfreak

I can always hear when she says "what did I just say?"


----------



## rad457

> I need to get me one of them thar NSA tracking devices to wear, even better if I can be talked into actually having to pay for the privilege.
> 
> - bigblockyeti
> 
> Whoever has the job of tracking and listening to me leads a very very very boring life ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


I kinda think I'd be in jail by now


----------



## bandit571

Had mis-placed a plane, somewhere….dug around looking for that Stanley No. 5-1/2c….was in the till, hiding behind a #4….so, got out ALL the Groovy planes…









Left to right: No.8c, No. 7c, No. 6c, No. 5-1/2c, No. 4c, and a No. 3c….The no. 5 and the no. 5-1/4 planes are smooth soled…Groovy..









I recommend NOT sneezing right at the moment…..get these down before they take a tumble..









Bad part? I could post the same set, with smooth soles…No. 8, No. 0-7, No. 6, No. 5-1/2, a No. 5 ( 3 patent dates) a No. 5-1/4 (blue paint) a No. 4 and a No. 3 (3 patent dates)....

The numbers could change..IF I sit out the Millers Falls bunch….but, none are grooved…


----------



## DavePolaschek

Groovy indeed, Bandit. Groovus dudous.


----------



## corelz125

Missing a couple of #s there. Where's the #2 and #4 1/2?


----------



## DevinT

Spalted walnut or walnut with sapwood? Can't tell if rot/fungus or sapwood


----------



## DevinT

Nevermind, looks like walnut sapwood is white according to a quick google search. I think it looks nice.


----------



## bandit571

aka …crotch figured…where a tree had a fork in the way upwards….

Have never had a No. 2 plane ( I use a No. 60-1/2, instead) and never had a No. 4-1/2 plane…c or otherwise…since a No. 5-1/2 works just as well…..or a M-F's No. 15…...


----------



## corelz125

The 4 1/2 size seems to be a go to size.


----------



## HokieKen

That's a really nice piece of Walnut Devin.

4-1/2 size is my go to smoother. 5-1/2 size sees a lot of action but not as a smoother.


----------



## bandit571

THE go-to smoother in the Dungeon Woodshop is a Type 4, Millers Falls No. 9…....









Even with knots…..Cedar is not the most fun wood to plane…The No. 9 has no trouble at all.

YMMV…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Kenny, got ice outside? Didn't look good on the radar.


----------



## HokieKen

About 8" of snow with a little ice on top. Less than we were expecting but more than I'd like ;-)


----------



## DanKrager

Devin, I agree with you that walnut sapwood is interesting, partly because of the extreme contrast. The sapwood is frequently of a very different texture soft enough to be "punky" even. Traditionally the furniture grade walnut was culled aggressively not permitting any sapwood on exposed surfaces. I assumed it was for cosmetic purposes, but later learned that sapwood interferes with stability if significant strips are allowed. And it is structurally weak.

Being a custom woodworker though, I could pick and choose where to allow sapwood and I did plan to expose it here and there when structure or stability wasn't an issue. It was an interesting challenge to make it part of the design. I did this to call attention to the fact that this piece was made of solid wood, not some fabricated mush. I did realize that this was more effective on informal pieces where asymmetry was involved. The sharp contrast was distracting to more formal presentations.

To stay on topic, I enjoy planing walnut by hand….

DanK


----------



## Lazyman

It is sometimes hard to find sapwood because most walnut seems to be steamed these days.


----------



## DevinT

Went to go comment on another thread …

"You cannot participate in this discussion because you are on the poopiekat's blocklist."

Well, that's new. Never seen that before.

Achievement unlocked?


----------



## DevinT

> Devin, I agree with you that walnut sapwood is interesting, partly because of the extreme contrast. The sapwood is frequently of a very different texture soft enough to be "punky" even. Traditionally the furniture grade walnut was culled aggressively not permitting any sapwood on exposed surfaces. I assumed it was for cosmetic purposes, but later learned that sapwood interferes with stability if significant strips are allowed. And it is structurally weak.
> 
> Being a custom woodworker though, I could pick and choose where to allow sapwood and I did plan to expose it here and there when structure or stability wasn t an issue. It was an interesting challenge to make it part of the design. I did this to call attention to the fact that this piece was made of solid wood, not some fabricated mush. I did realize that this was more effective on informal pieces where asymmetry was involved. The sharp contrast was distracting to more formal presentations.
> 
> To stay on topic, I enjoy planing walnut by hand….
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


SWEET!

Now I am trying to figure out how to best use it.


----------



## KentInOttawa

I've been watching a Youtube series by a young German woodworker starting a minimalist shop using nothing but traditional hand tools. In this clip, he's just created a dado using a stair saw and has cleared the bulk of the waste with a mallet and chisel, but he needs to clean up the bottom of the dado. I found this version of a poor man's router plane to be absolutely genius. Enjoy.

If you watch the whole video, you'll also see him using a variation on a milkman's workbench that knocks down for easy transport.

If you select the subtitles to "German (auto-generated)", then go back to select it again, you'll have the option for Autotranslate; I selected English. It isn't perfect but it helps augment my very rusty German. The technical woodworking terms (both English and German) always give the autogenerated text gizmos trouble.


----------



## Ocelot

> Does anyone use a side rabbet plane? There is one on eBay for $50 (WoodRiver, used) that I am looking at (though might just buy new, not sure which brand or vintage yet).
> 
> Just caught my eye because:
> 
> 1. Not that expensive
> 
> 2. Saw WoodByWright explaining how it is used and looks useful
> 
> Just not sure how useful and if worth it (other ways to skin the cat?)
> 
> - DevinT


I have one of those. (I don't use it a lot, which is not saying much because I don't use any of my tools alot). One thing that is different from having the 79 or 98/99 is that the fence of the WR side rabbet is only on one side. That is, if you are using the fence/depth-stop, and you have to flip the plane to go the other way with the grain, you have to take the fence off and turn it around, then reset it to the depth. That makes the depth stop less usefull. Why have a plane that can go both ways - and also has a fence if you have to do that?

But maybe I don't understand how to use it correctly.

I don't have a 79, but I don't see why you couldn't just keep both blades set to depth (as long as it's very shallow) and then just go back and forth at need - and if you have the later version with fence (depth stop really), it seems like it would be nicer.

-Paul


----------



## Lazyman

I just leave both blades set to take light shavings and it seems to work just fine going in either directions as needed.


----------



## drsurfrat

Me too.


----------



## HokieKen

I cried myself to sleep last night after this sold for $1 over my max bid :-(









I probably bid more than I should have but those MF scrapers are about as common as hen's teeth. C'est la vie!


----------



## bigblockyeti

Are they that much better than just holding the scraper by hand?


----------



## HokieKen

For larger panels, yes Yeti. At least to me they are. I have a Stanley version of that one and use it a lot. I just like to have the MF version of stuff when it's available


----------



## bandit571

Any thoughts on using the Stanley No. 80?


----------



## HokieKen

I use that one too Bandit but I tend to use it for smaller areas. The #12 is more comfortable for me in extended use and I like the ability to change the angle.


----------



## Notw

I love my no. 80, it comes out on most projects


----------



## bandit571

That ball of shavings in the NEW Stanley No.8c…









Is just a ball of stringy stuff….so, later today…I take a cup of water to the shop..and grind off the pitted end of the iron….Need about 1/8" removed…..Grind, dunk, grind, dunk…..then re-do the new bevel at 25 degrees…hone to 2500 grit, then Unicorn….should be back in service later today.

A Chair-maker over in Brooklyn,NY. needed a reamer…so..









I mailed this out this morning. L.L.Lord Co. No. 3 Reamer. 3/8" -1-1/2". Should do the job…


----------



## Mosquito

Just because it only sold for $1 more doesn't mean the winning bidder only had a max $1 higher ;-) Who knows, they may have been willing to pay $192 lol

Kent, I agree that's a damn good idea for a router!


----------



## ac0rn

A modified #12 for easier use. Held like a standard plane, so can make long swipes. Though I prefer the Stanley 112.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah I know Mos. But it does mean I was only contending with one other person and the fact that $92 may have been his max bid is what bugs me ;-) I had already stretched beyond my initial "max" bid though so I'll just have to wait for the next one to come up…

That's a nifty idea for the scraper Jeff. Seems a little large to effective though? Most times my final jointing is done with a plane shorter than that. A 112 has been on my hitlist for quite a while now. I imagine eventually I'll end up buying the Veritas version given the current prices the vintage ones go for.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Don't beat yourself up, Kenny. The winning bidder's max bid may have also been $50 more than that, and the only way to know for sure would have been to bid another $50+ over your max.

Patience, grasshopper.


----------



## DevinT

Any thoughts on Stanley No 83? Keep scraper angle consistent with roller in front of scraper. Good idea? Practical?


----------



## rad457

> Any thoughts on Stanley No 83? Keep scraper angle consistent with roller in front of scraper. Good idea? Practical?
> 
> - DevinT


Would look pretty sitting on the shelf 99% of the time will grab the #80(or Veritas) before the Veritas #112!
LOL most of the time just grab a scraper, always have a few miniature scrapers on the bench for a quick touch up.


----------



## DevinT

That's my thinking too *Andre*

Thanks! I just don't see anyone ever talk about the 83 which leads me to believe it wasn't popular


----------



## bandit571

A before and after…not so much of a rehab..just a cleaning..









Was starting to get a bit dusty..









After a good clean up….frog details?









There is a patent date on the lateral lever…









Lever cap is correct….for a Sargent No. 3416…the chipbreaker is a Stanley….as the OEM  Sargent was too far gone..test drive?









This IS a cambered Jack plane….might find some use for it….


----------



## bandit571

Something for Kenny?









While re-arranging the plane til….this Millers Falls No. 9 showed up….a Type 2…prewar version…









Prefer either the type 2 or the type 4?


----------



## bandit571

And..to cap off a busy day in the shop…









Worked on that Stanley No.8c….that bolt needed a burr ground off,,,









And, took a file to remove this BIG burr…otherwise, you HAVE to remove the bolt to remove the lever cap…

Iron was in need of work..









Ya think? Ground back to get rid of the pits..









Then re-grind a new bevel…flatten the back, again..









Coarse Crystolon stone, 600 grit medium India stone, 1500 grit wet or dry, 2000 grit wet or dry…









Then a green stick & strop…









Then a test drive or two…









Was a busy day….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The No. 83 is an interesting scraper. Saves thumbs, but offers less control. Maybe the scraper blade should have a bit of camber, but I've not experimented much wirh it.


----------



## corelz125

A complete #83 is a lot harder to find than the #80. I think most of us have been in that same boat Kenny get beat by a $1 but like everyone says you never know how much more the other person's max bid was at. That MF scraper doesn't come around often at all.

The Smittysonian produces again.


----------



## drsurfrat

I have a bunch, but admit that sandpaper is still my first option.
No 80: fixed angle, good price
No 81: fixed angle, heavier(good), pricier (bad), hard to find complete, thin rosewood sole.
No 83: adjustable angle (limited), poor ergonomics, handles high, roller not far enough out.
No 12: adjustable angle, nice and heavy, beautiful design and rosewood handles.
No12 1/2: same as No12 but w rosewood sole, card might chatter more because of gap, can't quite tell.
No 112: I have a Kunz, good ergonomics, very comfortable hand plane feel, Stanely's are very costly.
Nathan's Spalted Scraper: my new favorite, got it in a swap and now it is the go-to.


----------



## bandit571

No love for the No. 82?


----------



## drsurfrat

nope 

And I don't have one.


----------



## HokieKen

Who has an 85? Looks like a handy bugger. Think I'll pass on the 83. 82
might be a good option for long sessions on large panels.


----------



## RWE

I started out with a Starret scraper that was missing a handle that fits over the blade. One day I will turn one.
Second from the right in the group shot. Just got a Sargent scraper (3rd in shot) from Don W. Stanley 12 and last a Stanley 112. Kenny sent me Stanley iron/blade to complete the 112. I had to pick up a brass adjuster knob off of Ebay as well.




























After looking at them, I may have to do the refurb thing. I stay torn between having the plane look old and historic and having it look refurbed. Older, more rare items, I tend to leave alone. The 112 could sure use some work if I can make my mind up about it.


----------



## corelz125

The #85, #212, and #87 are in a different class. Smitty must have one of them.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You would be incorrect. I have none of them, sadly.


----------



## corelz125

> You would be incorrect. I have none of them, sadly.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


If you don't have one I doubt anybody else in here has one then. Are any of them on the I want one of those list?


----------



## RWE

Off topic a bit, but since some wood pictures were posted earlier by Devin, here goes.

I have pulled out the Incra I-Box and am working on a series of pencil (cups) boxes for gifting.

I have accumulated a lot of interesting wood. My favorite right now is the Ambrosia Maple with spalting and bark inclusions. As you all know, it will pop and show out once you get some finish on it. The bark inclusions make for interesting work on the box joints.









Still have some Box Elder. I have made several boxes and bowls over the years with Box Elder and if you use Spar Urethene, the color holds up well. Note the Chatoyance in the Box Elder. This is where showing this wood makes sense because some of wild grain begs for a scraper of some sort.










My use of a Walnut Crotch Burl in an old box that I made years ago. It may be too busy, with the Ambrosia Maple sides and the Crotch top, but oh well.










This is another Walnut piece that will probably become a box top
:









And last but not least, I have a lot of Magnolia that has some interesting light and dark wood sections. Not sure what I will do with it yet, but probably a box to start with. After the discussion about sap wood earlier, I am not sure if that is sap wood in the Magnolia or just part of the coloring variation that is normal.










One of my good friends is a tree surgeon. That is how I get this interesting variety of wood.


----------



## Lazyman

I am glad that scraper is working for you Mike. It is always a little scary sending a swap item that is the first one you have made so don't know how well it will work long term. I guess I need to finally make myself one. Unfortunately, I don't think I have any pieces of that hickory left that are big enough. The log that I milled that from had some really special wood in it.

EDIT to add: Is that a recent picture? Just wondering if the bois d'arc handle on the burnisher is still that bright a yellow color?


----------



## HokieKen

> The #85, #212, and #87 are in a different class. Smitty must have one of them.
> 
> - corelz125


212 is of interest too but the 112 seems more generally useful. And it's unlikely I'll spring for both…


----------



## Lazyman

I never realized that the #85 has tilting handles.


----------



## DevinT

I finally test drove the plane I bought from *sansoo*

I spent 4 hours putting the keenest edge possible on my Veritas No 4 for a control. I then spent 45 minutes using my Veritas No 4 and then switched to the Stanley No 5 (T11) ... which I did little more to than spit shine (did not touch the blade in even the slightest, not even taking off the chip breaker - I wanted to see how a *sansoo* prepared blade drove).

The results are all positive. I will go further …

This is the "Handplane of you Dreams" thread, and my dreams came true with this plane.

Zero tear out. No tracks with minimal effort.

I used it for 5 minutes and I was hooked. I love this thing. The Veritas will probably be getting a lot less use now. Seriously.

*ASIDE:* I can't get my Veritas to not leave tracks (still working that out in the Sharpening - tried knicking the corners but I think I need to actually put a barely detectable camber as recommended by Matt Estlea). Also, the Veritas short length causes it dive down which is no good. So when I use the Veritas, I am pulling the board out of flat and that makes me angry.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Catching up from a long weekend trip.

Sorry for your loss Kenny. I lose the Stanley 62 chamfer planes all the time. Not exactly sure why I want one but I do and someday I'll have one.

Devin if your Veritas will be strictly a smoother then definitely round that blade off in the no detectable style you speak of. I haven't seen Matt's video on it but that dude did graduate from a decent woodworking school and now teaches there along with YouTube. I say he know some stuff.


----------



## Lazyman

I think we might all like to have a 72, Dave. During last year's plane swap, I actually thought about trying to figure out how to make a wood version but didn't get very far before I abandoned the idea, for the swap anyway. Still kind of have it in the back of my mind. We just need to get JayT to figure it out for us.

BTW, I suspect that the 72 is where Cosman got the idea for his spoked replacement knob.


----------



## DevinT

> where Cosman got the idea for his spoked replacement knob.


Speaking of which, so far I have nothing but good things to report


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> The #85, #212, and #87 are in a different class. Smitty must have one of them.
> - corelz125
> 
> 212 is of interest too but the 112 seems more generally useful. And it's unlikely I'll spring for both…
> - HokieKen


Love the 212, wouldn't turn away an 87 in need of a good home either. The 85's wood is too fragile:


----------



## rad457

I have a L.N. #212, Brass  Cute little feller, actually real nice for small jobs.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I agree Nathan, first time I saw the knob on Cosman's site I thought about the 72 immediately.

The 72 might be a splurge at handworks if there's one sitting around somewhere. I honestly think it would get used a lot in my shop.


----------



## HokieKen

Now the wheels are a-turnin'. I've pondered making some parts and turning a 4-1/2, or other wide-bodied plane, into a scraper just for kicks (and to save the cost of a 112 ;-p). Maybe I can go a step further and mill the cheeks out and make it a rabbet scraper like the 85. I don't much care about the adjustable handles anyway. And honestly, I don't know when I would ever need to be able to scrape right up to a corner like that. But, it would let me have a wider blade which is my biggest hesitation in using a bench plane body. I like the breadth of my #12 and I may as well use the #80 if I only want a 2" blade. The biggest concern that comes to mind is the thin cheeks on the castings being a breaking point.

I really need to retire. Or tame this ADD…


----------



## HokieKen

> I have a L.N. #212, Brass  Cute little feller, actually real nice for small jobs.
> 
> - Andre


I looked at the LN 212 several years back when I realized owning a Stanley wasn't in my future. But the bronze body just kills it for me. I don't know why, I just hate bronze castings :-( But the small Veritas looks pretty handy. It has a wider blade than the LN and the palm rest looks comfy. But it's a fixed angle… which I could live with but I'd rather not. I don't necessarily find that I adjust the angle on my #12 all that often but it does make it much easier to fettle after turning a fresh burr on the blade. I can just install the blade so it is flush with the bottom and tweek the angle to get the cut I want. It's much faster to tune than the #80.

And as long as we're on scrapers… I picked this Veritas holder for card scrapers up a couple of years ago at Charles Neil's estate sale. I don't use it as often as the 80 or 12 but it is mighty handy at preventing finger cramps


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## Lazyman

Crucible has a card scraper with a curved edge that they claim doesn't required you to flex it, making it easier on your hands. It would be easy enough to grind a curved profile into a cheap one to try it. Well, it could take some time but shouldn't be too hard to do.


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## waho6o9

Interesting Vimeo video on the Crucible scraper, thanks.


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## Johnny7

> Now the wheels are a-turnin . I ve pondered making some parts and turning a 4-1/2, or other wide-bodied plane, into a scraper just for kicks (and to save the cost of a 112 ;-p).
> 
> - HokieKen


Paul Hamler used to make an insert to turn a plane into a scraper. LoonLake Toolworks now sells it.

https://loonlaketoolworks.com/products/hamler-scraper-insert?variant=28878891974740

There's also the LV version:

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/scrapers/32635-veritas-scraping-plane-insert?item=05P0601


----------



## rad457

Never noticed the Small Veritas, dang another thing to go on the wish list, I could see a use for it probably, more than I have used the 212? I have the Veritas holder plus a wood version that I really cannot remember were it came from? Have a box full of scrappers, and usually just find one that has the desired burr and use it. Really do love those Miniature ones from L.V. even though them suckers are a pain to polish and burr!


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## bandit571

Didn't there used to be an attachment for planes, where you removed the frog and installed a scraper frog?


----------



## DevinT

> Paul Hamler used to make an insert to turn a plane into a scraper. LoonLake Toolworks now sells it.
> 
> https://loonlaketoolworks.com/products/hamler-scraper-insert?variant=28878891974740


That is a pretty sexy looking piece of hardware.



> There s also the LV version:
> 
> https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/scrapers/32635-veritas-scraping-plane-insert?item=05P0601
> 
> - Johnny7


That one looks to be more useful as it keeps the depth adjustment functionality.

But, dangit …



> Item No Longer Available


----------



## HokieKen

The Hamler insert is essentially what I have in mind. I just can't bring myself to buy that one from LoonLake when it's essentially the same price as a Veritas 112…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Anyone looking for a challenge? This poor old thing was dropped big time. I picked it mostly for the lever cap. It would be cool to get it brazed and find a replacement frog. I think I could put some lipstick on the rest of it. Looks to me like a type 1, 604 if I am not wrong. I cleaned some of the gunk off the lever cap. It has a good blade and chip breaker. Without the lateral adjustment lever, I may never know which type it it for sure.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Dropped? That thing looks like it took a ride through a big wood chipper!


----------



## HokieKen

Sorry Mike. Brazing cast iron is outside my wheelhouse.


----------



## corelz125

Kenny another #24 came up. Nice looking but price tag not so nice.


----------



## corelz125

There's a good bit of work to put into that 604 Mike.


----------



## donwilwol

If I have any nickel rod left I'll take a shot at welding the 604. I've done a couple. They're not pretty but were usable.


----------



## BlasterStumps

That good to know Don. I had a local welding outfit that I was going to go talk with. Chances are they won't work on it though. So yeah, I might be back in contact with you on it. Seems a shame to not give the 604 another chance to make shavings. I might make a no-lateral frog out of the busted frog at least until I should run on to another one. Thanks.


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny another #24 came up. Nice looking but price tag not so nice.
> 
> - corelz125


That one's a T4. Not as desirable but still a solid user. It's way overpriced though. The 24C is a T2 or T3, can't tell from the pics. Current price on that one is a bargain. Still 3 days left though. It'll probably go around $250 if I had to guess.


----------



## Lazyman

> If I have any nickel rod left I ll take a shot at welding the 604. I ve done a couple. They re not pretty but were usable.
> 
> - Don W


Don, Do you have any write ups on your site with tips for welding broken planes? I didn't find one with a quick search but that doesn't always mean it is not there. I imagine that any experienced welder would know how but that is why I ask.


----------



## bandit571

Chisel & Forge website had a video, that should how Dave fixed a Millers Falls No. 14 that was cracked almost that bad….might be worth the time to dig around for that video?


----------



## donwilwol

> If I have any nickel rod left I ll take a shot at welding the 604. I ve done a couple. They re not pretty but were usable.
> 
> - Don W
> 
> Don, Do you have any write ups on your site with tips for welding broken planes? I didn t find one with a quick search but that doesn t always mean it is not there. I imagine that any experienced welder would know how but that is why I ask.
> 
> - Lazyman


I don't have a write up, but it's basic cast iron welding. Heat it ahead of time. Cut a groove, and use nickel rod. Then cover with a welding blanket or bury it in ashes so it cools slow. I don't weld enough to be efficient, so I sometimes have to grind and reweld. Transitionals are easier because repainting hides a lot of flaws.

The other issue is warping. Try to keep the rest of the plane cool. I have kept it buried in ashes but have thought about keeping it in water to keep it cool. I welded a 607 that was severely warped. I still think it was warped to start with and that's why it was cracked.

If someone wanted to practice a bit, I think it would work well, however nickel rod is not cheap either.


----------



## HokieKen

You're using a stick welder Don as opposed to just a torch and rod? My understanding is that for thin sections, brazing is the easier method. I've never attempted either on cast iron though personally and my welds in general look like a kindergartner threw pooh on the steel…


----------



## Johnny7

> Without the lateral adjustment lever, I may never know which type it it for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Assuming the lever cap is original, it seems it can only be a type 3 (1900-1908).
Earlier round sides would not have "6xx" series numbers, and the type 4 would have a 2-line "STANLEY/BED ROCK" cap.

By type 5, we're into flat-top sidewalls.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Johnny7. I was hoping you could help ID it. That helps me with looking for a replacement frog if I can get the plane body welded. Thanks again.


----------



## corelz125

Cast iron rod is really expensive. You can also post heat in sand. You can keep the heat down by welding small amount at a time. Let it cool a little between passes.


----------



## HokieKen

If it had a good frog and/or a good body, it may be worth saving Mike. But, by the time you have the body welded and get a replacement frog, you may have been better off to just buy a complete plane. But I certainly wouldn't fault you for fixing it up just because you want to ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

I know next to nothing about welding but I am surprised that you want the rest of the plane to stay cold to prevent it from warping. In other circumstances it is the differential heating that causes warping. I would have expected that you would want to slowly heat up the entire body, maybe in an oven for example, and then heat up the spot you are welding for the final welding or brazing. Then bring the temperature down slowly.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I found the video. Thanks for sharing the info on it. Looks like he did a fine job on your plane. Crazy as it might sound, since I don't have any welding equipment, I was thinking if I can't get it brazed, I would try some Loctite Super Glue Liquid. That brazing looked really good though.



> Chisel & Forge website had a video, that should how Dave fixed a Millers Falls No. 14 that was cracked almost that bad….might be worth the time to dig around for that video?
> 
> - bandit571


----------



## BlasterStumps

I hear ya Kenny. And you're right as rain. I really only cared about the lever cap, blade and chip breaker. I thought they were worth the cost of the plane. Still, it might be fun to see what I can do on the broken body.



> If it had a good frog and/or a good body, it may be worth saving Mike. But, by the time you have the body welded and get a replacement frog, you may have been better off to just buy a complete plane. But I certainly wouldn t fault you for fixing it up just because you want to ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## BlasterStumps

removed. double post.


----------



## bandit571

Stanley No. 5-1/4…..had a crack in the right side…JB Weld fix. Used the Dremel to turn the crack into a "V" channel…allow to cure with the base clamped down flat….then sand the repair smooth…

I can't weld…and do not have a torch….let alone the No. 1 tip needed….A relative of mine tried his TIG welder to fix a broken iron…..iron warped, then snapped later as I tried to sharpen it…

I used the 2-part "Mix a lot" JB Weld….I can dig out the plane, later. I use a Millers Falls No. 11 instead..same size planes.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have some of the JB Weld, not sure exactly what type. I will explore that.


----------



## bandit571

Ok..this might be a long one…but, Kenny may not mind…first off, the JB Weld fix..









And the shavings?









Plane is from after 1962…has the wrong sized wheel..and is a dark blue with hanger hole..









The Millers Falls No. 11 is a Type 2…









Yellow paint vs red painted Lever caps…









Now, as for that jack plane DAVE repaired?









Not pretty, but it works fine..









Millers Falls No. 14, Type 4…









Goes with my No. 9, Type 4…









There is a No. 9, Type 2 in the background, BTW..


----------



## corelz125

You're right Nathan you want to pre heat first to weld it. Then after the welding is done you post heat.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

FWIW - Before welding, absolutely must fixture the plane base onto a flat surface to correct the warp that happens when one side is cracked completely through mouth.

Likely have to separate the large 604 fix into two steps. Grind/weld outside to lock sides to keep bottom flat, and then after 60 min post anneal, weld the corner at mouth and inside of crack at internal brace.

If brazing, be sure to treat the fixture plate to prevent the braze wicking into the gap and attaching the base to fixture plate. 
At least that is what worked for me. YMMV


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks guys for all the information about fixing a broken plane. Lots of good info and I appreciate all of it. You are all great. Thank you.
Mike in Co


----------



## BlasterStumps

I took the knob and tote off the 604 so now I get to get down on my hands and knees and crawl all over looking for one of the brass nuts that went missing while I wasn't looking. I will let my wife know to come check on me if I don't surface after a while. Might not be able to get back up off the floor. : (.


----------



## Lazyman

I am old enough that when I kneel down to tie my shoes, I look for something else to do while I am down there so that I don't waste a trip.


----------



## RichT

> I am old enough that when I kneel down to tie my shoes, I look for something else to do while I am down there so that I don t waste a trip.
> 
> - Lazyman


Wait! You can reach down and tie your shoes? I'm so jealous.

For me, thank God for Minnetonka slip-on moccasins.


----------



## donwilwol

Usually buy the time I get down on my knees I've forgotten what I was looking for anyhow.

The good thing is I usually find something I lost a week ago.


----------



## HokieKen

I just skip over getting on my knees to look for stuff and go straight to laying down. I usually either find what I was looking for or get a quick nap. Either way it's a win ;-)


----------



## controlfreak

Because its brass I know that a magnet is of no help but it makes me think back to a time I was working for a locksmith company and someone brought in a lock set with a key broke off deep in it. The owner went to the back and came around in a nano second with the key removed. The customer was shocked and asked "how did you do that?" Without batting an eye he said "we have an aluminum magnet it the back." The look on the mans face was priceless.


----------



## Lazyman

Actually, I have elastic laces on the shoes I wear most days so I rarely have to kneel down for that anymore. I love them. Saves so much time in the morning remembering how to tie a shoe.


----------



## DanKrager

Don, you may be on to something there. Maybe a weekly trip around the shop on hands and knees or perhaps a creeper just to see what's down there and recover it! Whole planes might reappear. LOL.

Pull on boots for me. Can still corkscrew down there for that long….

DanK


----------



## bandit571

Usually the day after you buy a new part…the old part will show up, usually when I run the broom around in the shop…and places the broom can't reach..the air hose will clear out the background areas…..DAMHIKT…

Usually take a BRIGHT flashlight, and lay it on the floor…roll it around a bit…non-dirt like metal will shine up…


----------



## DevinT

Not hand planes related but just had a story to share …

So i ran into an old friend that is opening a second restaurant.

Tells me she wants a quote for a counter top and bar top.

So I go to the lumber yard to try and find something that fits the bill …

For the counter top …

22" deep, left side front radius from 15 9/16" depth to 22" (~6 7/16" radius), 36 1/2" to surface top from floor, 1 1/2" thick top, 81 1/2" wide. Cut-out for sink at 13.5" to 32" at 20" deep. 4" wide batten reinforcement under cutout.

Bar top: 16" deep, 101 1/2"

While at the lumber yard, I spot some white oak that could be used for a single piece on both …










The top board is 16.5" wide and 9 feet long and the board with "22" written on the end is 23" wide and 11 feet long (the pile is 8/4 lumber at almost 2" thick).

We calculate board feet and we are looking at $800+ for the counter top, $500+ for the bar top, $60 for some milling, and 1-2 weeks to send it to the mill (and I bet it will cup after milling), not to mention White Oak tends to turn black in the presence of water and steel (can even happen if sealed; was recommended to use Bob Smith's penetrating epoxy but still may not guarantee no discoloration).

I think the better option is to go with butcher style.

MacBeath has White Oak, Maple, or Walnut 1.5" thick counter tops made in butcher block style that are 25"
wide by 8 feet.




























Here comes the fun part …

She needs it done in a week so the city inspectors can approve it, and I get approval on the butcher style tops, then send her this text message …



> Cost of wood we are looking at $1789.70, some delivery costs to have it moved into my garage, and I have not yet figured epoxy cost or labor


And …

No response. Radio silence.

Pffft. Glad I always follow my Dad's advice and always get a firm commitment on material costs before you ever spend one second or dime on a project regardless of how passionate or in-need the customer/client appears.


----------



## DevinT

If she can't handle ~2k in material costs, pretty sure she won't like my hourly rate


----------



## controlfreak

Devin,

Some people have no clue what somethings cost and this inflation is not helping either. Sometimes they are looking to "save a buck" too. I tend to take what I think and add extra $$$ to that as a "budget number" to see if it is going to be worth the effort to plug in the real numbers. If they freak or go silent you will save a lot of effort. I think the short time line was not in your favor either, you may have dodged one.


----------



## DevinT

That's what I think (dodged a bullet)

Also, that is really good advice. Making up a number to test the waters could have saved me an hour and a half at the lumber yard


----------



## DevinT

I am firmly in the "no more shoe tying" camp with these shoes …










But, who am I kidding? For nearly my entire life I would just tie them and leave them tied (just tight enough to still be able to forcefully slip them on).

Though, I must admit these new shoes are all the better because I never had to tie them even once


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The (albeit limited) work I've done 'for hire' was also eye-opening in this regard. When folks can go to Walmart and pick up a sofa / coffee table for less than $50, it's a shocker when lumber and material is quoted, and labor estimated, to make "the same thing".

I estimated a reasonable hourly labor rate but added a modest 15% burden to the material costs just to cover getting stuff, doing returns and exchanges, etc. that were always part of the build. Made sense to me.

But always, with side jobs, there's 1) enthusiasm by the client, 2) getting the quote / estimate pulled together, and 3) sign on the dotted line. Very few make it to #3, and that's probably okay given it's a hobby for me and not needed income. My .02 for today.


----------



## Lazyman

My first response when a friend asks for something like that is to tell them that they probably cannot afford me and that is assuming that I would do it at cost for the fun of doing it. I usually tell them to look at IKEA first and then at least double the cost just for materials for a custom version. Get them over the sticker shock right off the bat and if they come back, you know that they are serious. Usually only small projects survive first contact.


----------



## Mosquito

I agree with Smitty. I've had a couple of people who understand, and one who has been a pretty regular repeat (usually annually she has an idea she asks about), but that's about it. Though, I've also not tried making an effort to try to get more work, it's just been word of mouth/"Hey I have a friend…" scenarios. As long as the project has been interesting, I've done a few of them "at cost" just because I wanted to try it and it was an excuse to do with someone else's money. It's like when I help friends with computer case mods. I get to do what I enjoy and someone else pays for the parts, and I don't have to figure out what to do with yet another computer lol

Otherwise, most things I've made that other people have were random gifts


----------



## bandit571

three boards from Lowes, today…OUCH! Red Oak, 1/2" x 6" x 48"...at $22 and change each….Military Discount took 10% off the total. Just a shade over skipped planed, with a hint of snipe on an end….The fourth one still in the rack…could have been used as a Long Bow….

Looks like I'll need to plane these to final smoothness

They were out of the clear Pine 1/2" x 6×36" boards….didn't like the looks of the Poplar ones….my fingers look straighter than the Poplar boards.

My Hardwood dealer returns from Sydney,AZ about the first week in March…..then I can go back to $3 per 5bft Ash….


----------



## DevinT

One of my neighbors down the street built his house from scratch (a 4-story affair) using lumber from the local lumber yard. I can't imagine doing that today with lumber prices the way they are. Sigh.

And yeah, as *bandit* points out if you want quality the costs triple


----------



## MikeB_UK

Always thought butcher blocks were end grain up, damnable terminology must have mutated over the years again.

Been a while since a plane pic, so…
Curly ringlets


----------



## bigblockyeti

> And yeah, as *bandit* points out if you want quality the costs triple
> 
> - DevinT


It doesn't have to, just depends on how many middleman you want to pay for.


----------



## donwilwol

> And yeah, as *bandit* points out if you want quality the costs triple
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> It doesn t have to, just depends on how many middleman you want to pay for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bigblockyeti


^This

Probably 75% of the lumber in my house I dragged out of the woods!!


----------



## DevinT

That's the thing about living in an Urban setting.

You get fined or put in jail if you take a chainsaw about town cutting down trees.


----------



## BlasterStumps

i actually have done that very thing and for quite a few years as well. You just need to be doing tree trimming and removal for the power company. : )


> That s the thing about living in an Urban setting.
> 
> You get fined or put in jail if you take a chainsaw about town cutting down trees.
> 
> - DevinT


----------



## Ocelot

> Paul Hamler used to make an insert to turn a plane into a scraper. LoonLake Toolworks now sells it.
> 
> https://loonlaketoolworks.com/products/hamler-scraper-insert?variant=28878891974740
> 
> That is a pretty sexy looking piece of hardware.
> 
> There s also the LV version:
> 
> https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/scrapers/32635-veritas-scraping-plane-insert?item=05P0601
> 
> - Johnny7
> 
> That one looks to be more useful as it keeps the depth adjustment functionality.
> 
> But, dangit …
> 
> Item No Longer Available
> 
> - DevinT


I've got one. Haven't used it much. When I first got it, I didn't really understand how to sharpen scraper blades. Probably still don't, honestly. I did buy the extra blades of differeent thickness for it.


----------



## theoldfart

MikeB, that is a fine looking plow plane.


----------



## Mosquito

> That s the thing about living in an Urban setting.
> 
> You get fined or put in jail if you take a chainsaw about town cutting down trees.
> 
> - DevinT


So then don't cut them down in the city… find somewhere else. Or find fallen trees in the city, or other trees that are coming down for various reasons… it's called Urban Logging


----------



## DevinT

can you imagine me trying to stuff a tree in my Fiat convertible? or perhaps the minivan?


----------



## bandit571

Chain it to the back bumper, and drag it home….


----------



## DevinT

Hahaha, yes! Go for that distressed look ;D

You've got your S3S and S4S lumber … but I think with this plan we could be looking at D3S and D4S …

Distressed-3-sides, and Distressed-4-sides.

LoL!

Guy 1: Have you got some of that new D3S lumber? It's so hip and modern!

Guy 2: Yeah, I used to have to get the kids to beat on the lumber for some years, now I can just buy it that way, what's your secret?

Seller: My supplier chains it to a vehicle and drags it

ASIDE: You've got to be careful when you brake ^_^


----------



## corelz125

They went around my city cutting down tons of trees. They took a maple down in front of my house I asked for about a 6' log. He said take what you want I have to pay to dump it.


----------



## Mosquito

My bad. I have logs for bowl blanks that didn't come from my yard, neighborhood, city, or even state, thought it may be allowed in other states too.


----------



## RWE

You get that log home after dragging it and distressing it. Then you have to figure out how to saw it. Assuming you can get it sawn then you wait 1 to 2 years for it to dry, or you pay someone to dry it or make your own kiln.

I speak from experience. My tree surgeon friend has been passing me band sawn lumber from freshly felled trees for years. I have a drying rack under my back deck. The termite man came by and told me that was not a great idea!!

So after a year or two, then you can have some fun. But you have to mill everything. I preprocess the boards with planes to get them where they can be power jointed and power planned. I have done a few smaller pieces all by hand, but with limited shop time, you need the power to save time.

I actually love the milling process. After the wood has dried, you get to rediscover the grain and color when you mill it.

I do have cavalry on the way to rescue me. My rack is full of dried wood. A woodworking buddy is soon to receive after a year long wait, a Hammer 12 or 20 (forget the width) inch wide planner/jointer with the spiral head cutter and carbide. Looking forward to using that. No more bisecting boards to get them to 6 inch widths.

I actually like working from the raw air dried wood and rarely if ever build from purchased lumber unless it is a "hack" project that I am not really interested in. It is certainly economical, other than time invested.


----------



## donwilwol

I started with an Alaskan mill. But as I got older, I switched to the bandsaw mill. Both are a lot of work, but the Alaskan takes a strong back.


----------



## bandit571

Lumber supply…









and 









and..









We have work to do….some of which will involve hand planes…









Like a plough plane, a router plane, and a #9 smoother plane…..and a bit of cussing, maybe?


----------



## HokieKen

I have an Alaskan mill but my big boy chainsaw crapped the bed a couple of years ago and I just can't justify the $$ for a new one big enough to do any big cutting. So I completely reversed course and got a battery powered 18" saw to cut up turning stock. Lumber will just have to be purchased rough sawn. Which is fine because I don't really have the space to dry it and that Alaskan mill ain't for lazy folk…


----------



## BlasterStumps

"crapped the bed". There's a pretty picture for ya!

There is a similar saying that is catching on now-a-days. A gal from Arkansas just introduced me to it this last summer. She was frustrated or surprised at something and came out with, "Well sh_t the bed!".

Say that a few times. It has a nice ring to it. : )


----------



## BlasterStumps

I put Loctite super glue Liquid all over both sides of the break on the 604 plane. Looks like it worked. Have to go clean some of it off now that it has sat over night. Might have the break solid enough for now at least. If it fails, well…


----------



## HokieKen

It's "sh*t fire and save the matches" in my family Mike ;-)


----------



## ac0rn

I thought it was "eat lightning, and s**t thunder"


----------



## drsurfrat

> - BlasterStumps


If id goes south, you could transfer it into these bookends


----------



## DevinT

Lee Valley slowly creeping their way back into good graces.

Opted for the free shipping and this arrived in 2 days.

New honing guide. Upgraded from the low budget eclipse honing guide to the Veritas side-clamping honing guide.

ASIDE: The Mk.II Veritas honing guide looks too fiddly. I went with a traditional style guide over the Mk.II. This side-clamping guide is new. I think it was introduced in 2019 (so new-ish product). I believe previously they only offered the Mk.I (discontinued) and Mk.II.



















The problem I was having with the budget eclipse was that the thicker Veritas blades were tilting in the guide when it was fully clamped down. This guide should prevent that from happening to give me a more square bevel.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I saw those bookends Mike. Someone must have not have had enough locktite glue huh?

What do you think, is this better than the bookends? Can't see the break at all, can ya? Color is a little off I know. : )


----------



## corelz125

Nothing like a fresh coat of paint. Going for the Record blue look?


----------



## BlasterStumps

I don't know corelz, I'm a bit color blind. Did I miss by much?


----------



## DLK

> The problem I was having with the budget eclipse was that the thicker Veritas blades were tilting in the guide when it was fully clamped down. This guide should prevent that from happening to give me a more square bevel.
> 
> - DevinT


With a file you modify "the budget eclipse" so that this is not an issue. See for example this link


----------



## DevinT

I know that was an option, and I have filed many other tools, but that would have made it work less well for some of my chisels.

Would rather keep the old guide unmodified as it still works well for my chisels


----------



## corelz125

It's pretty close Mike. By looking at that pic.


----------



## donwilwol

https://www.lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/33555
https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/95091


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice work Don. Good use for broken planes. I decided to put some lipstick on the one I have for the time being. Since I was able to glue my irrigation pump impeller to the shaft after it had broken away and it held for something like 4 years that way, I thought why not try it on the plane and it seems to be together again. But, it looks like I might have grabbed the wrong color paint. So that's not engine black, is it?

Anyway, I like the bookends. They are actually pretty cool.


----------



## donwilwol

and of course there are these










https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/02/06/cut-away-views/


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Those cutaways are sooooo cool! I gotta do something like that.


----------



## 33706

> and of course there are these
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/02/06/cut-away-views/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Don W


Now there's the quintessential display of *Blood and Gore!
*


----------



## corelz125

Nice ideas for the planes Don. Have you sold any of the cut away planes?


----------



## DevinT

If you keep cutting does it become a one-sided shoulder plane?


----------



## BlasterStumps

It's too bad that someone dropped the Stanley 604 that I have been working on. The tote, frog and metal body all were busted. Turns out, after cleaning it up and putting it back together, that it is a really nice smoother. I had it down to bare metal when I discovered I didn't have any more black paint so I used what I had. I know, the brilliant blue is kind of like adding insult to injury : (.


----------



## DevinT

Speaking of things that break easily. I lent my chisels to the neighbor so she could de-bark some dried cookies after her husband felled a tree.

I gave her a quick lesson on how to use them properly.

I hope I don't have to spend a day regrinding, honing, and polishing them when they come back.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane photo…









2 rebates done…









Found something this one could do…

3 hours or so IN the shop, today..









Both ends of a box now have their "tails" done









Maybe tomorrow, I can get the Pins done?


----------



## donwilwol

> Nice ideas for the planes Don. Have you sold any of the cut away planes?
> 
> - corelz125


I've sold several


----------



## RWE

Don W.: Wrong thread I know, but what model/brand of saw is that?? Is it a "ships saw" per chance.



> - Don W


----------



## donwilwol

> Don W.: Wrong thread I know, but what model/brand of saw is that?? Is it a "ships saw" per chance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Don W
> 
> - RWE


The etch says
Dearborn
Extra spring steel. Patent tempered
The best is the cheapest


----------



## corelz125

Nice way to recoup some money on a broken plane what other wise be a loss.


----------



## RWE

Well "Dearborn Brand Handsaw" comes up with a meat company, "Dearborn Handsaw" comes up with nothing??

Did you research it and figure it out? Is it on your site? Got a link. Curious minds want to know.

I have a mystery saw of my own. There should be a rule against posting pictures of "mystery" saws. Maybe I can get some sleep tonight, but I doubt it.

The handle seems to be Oak? Seems to be thick and well rounded, which typically means somewhat early. Yet you either restored it well or it is relatively new, or lived life in a nice dry shop. I have only acquired one saw that had an Oak handle.

The "Best is the Cheapest" in the etch makes you figure it was a hardware store offering, maybe limited to the Dearborn Michigan geographic region.

If you have info on it, switch over to the handsaws thread. Don't want to upset the "plane" heads. The taper suggests a ship saw and there is plenty of plate beneath the handle, so it is not like it has been sharpened a lot.

Found one hit on the full etch wording:

Sumerfi has stated that there are many many Warranted Superior type hardware store brands that are undocumented. May be one of those.


----------



## bigblockyeti

> Speaking of things that break easily. I lent my chisels to the neighbor so she could de-bark some dried cookies after her husband felled a tree.
> 
> I gave her a quick lesson on how to use them properly.
> 
> I hope I don't have to spend a day regrinding, honing, and polishing them when they come back.
> 
> - DevinT


I have chisels from the grocery store just for lending purposes. I hate sharpening and having to start from zero and do everything, that would make no one happy!


----------



## HokieKen

I have grocery store chisels too but I don't loan them out. Actually, I don't loan chisels out at all. If they need chiselin' done, they borrow me, not the chisels…


----------



## Lazyman

I keep 2 sets of Harbor Freight Chisels as beaters so I would probably loan one of those out. They actually keep an edge very well for $7 chisels.


----------



## DevinT

Well, it's not like I lent her Narex.

I lent her Buck Bros. with the factory edge still on.

I went by today to check on her progress and it was good. She had almost completely de-barked a whole cookie in less than a day and was sanding the top when I came by.

She's like me, she has patience for things like that. I think I also started her off right by demonstrating first by de-barking a few small sections, showing her where to keep her fingers, how to enter at an angle and pick the appropriate size chisel and switch as needed. Made sure to tell her if she was going to chisel on the concrete, work half the bark down and flip it, don't try and chisel all the way to the floor.

She seems to be doing well from what I saw of the cookie. Haven't seen the state of the chisels yet. Will let her use them a while longer.


----------



## DLK

When we were first married I caught my wife taking my chisel to open a paint can. I stopped her. We have been married for 41 years now.


----------



## bandit571

Ok…seems that to get this curved look…









Sellers used his No. 4 to hand plane the radius. All 4 sides. Before he glued the sides together….Oooh-Kay.

He also used a plough plane to plough a groove into the end grain on the lid and bottom panels….Wonder IF he used the spurs for that?










We'll see..


----------



## DevinT

Looks like MF has some competition for Permaloid … auction for Turner hand plane with Permaloid handles


----------



## HokieKen

I've read a bit about the Turner planes in the past Devin. Best I can surmise, they are a well-made Bailey pattern plane. EA Berg made the blades for them in early production which makes those models more valuable. At some point they started making their own blades which seem to be good quality as well. They just don't have the "shark stamp" on em. The refined look of the castings and the attention to fit and finish look top notch to me in all of the examples I have seen. And for those reasons, I'd like to get my hands on one someday. Unfortunately, they were made in Australia for a relatively short time. And I just found a page that says they bought the patterns for the planes from Falcon Pope.

There is one thing about Turner planes that makes them more of a curiosity than a serious consideration for every-day-workers in my mind though… Aluminum frogs. Yuch! Much like the Buck Rogers planes by Millers Falls, I would like to have one but it would see only occasional use. And I think the Turner is a much worse use of the material because it's just a Bailey pattern frog. The Buck Rogers is a much beefier frog that incorporates the rear tote and has a very large mating surface with the cast iron body and a large, flat bed for the blade. The size and mating area makes it more rigid and stable and the large bed will resist wear longer and give better holding power on the blade. The Turner has the usual small contact areas with the bed casting and has the raised edge bed like some Stanley types used:









Between the fairly thin structure of the frog and small contact area, I have to think that there is probably a very fine line between overtightening the lever cap screw and deforming the frog or undertightening it and the blade being able to slip. And in the process of slipping, wearing and possibly galling the bed.

You brought it up and rekindled my curiosity so you had to read all my drivel ;-) Like I said, if I ever stumble on one stateside at a reasonable price, I'd be intrigued enough to purchase it. But, as a I've preached dozens of times over the years, as a general rule, I like my tools like I like my blood. With some iron in em.


----------



## DevinT

*HokieKen* thank you so much for all the historical info. Yeah, that aluminum frog sounds horrible.


----------



## 33706

A bit of a closer look at *Turner Planes*, from one in my collection:



























The frog on this one is indeed aluminum, but I can think of worse reasons to not like a plane. This one has a disc-actuated lateral, and the lever somewhat resembles the typical peened two-piece lever end like a Stanley.

In my mind, I had thought that the *Turners* had an ell shaped lateral, like MF planes. Then I realized that such a feature was seen on Falcon-Pope planes.

Somebody out there has to know of the historical evolution of Australian planes, I strongly feel that the coincidences of their design in general can be explained by someone with hands-on experience in both American and Aussie production.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice archived example PK ) As far as the evolution of Australian planes, I imagine most roads eventually lead back to the Bailey patent. According to the Hand Tool Preservation Association of Australia , Falcon/Pope planes were made from 1946 to sometime around 1956. The Pope (& Falcon) line of planes were a copy of the Stanley USA range. according to the Turner page. I haven't dug deep enough to know if anyone in Australia was making planes commercially prior to 1946. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say they were probably being imported from the US and England. Then in 1970 Stanley bought out Turner and I guess the operation was just boarded up? I'm not aware of Stanley ever doing any production in Australia.

Here is a list of Australian plane makers. I have no idea if any of them were making metal-bodied planes prior to WWII commercially. I'm a little leery of diving too deep for fear of adding more saved searches to Ebay…

For some reason HNT Gordon is missing from that list. Maybe the HTPAA only deals with vintage tools.


----------



## MikeB_UK

OK, not the plane of anyones dreams, but if anyone is after a little chamfer plane, this cheap chinese thing is actually pretty good.
Got the plane & extra cutters for £25


















I have no idea why they've stuck in a spirit level (Well, 2 vertical one side, horizontal the other)


----------



## HokieKen

'Cause every tool needs a spirit level Mike! Then it's a multi-tool ;-)

A couple of people on here have given those planes (or some variation thereof) a go and I think for the most part folks think they're worth the money. I could see the usefulness for breaking edges. Especially if you wanted a nice even roundover instead of a quick chamfer with a block plane.


----------



## adot45

[/QUOTE] I m a little leery of diving too deep for fear of adding more saved searches to Ebay…

- HokieKen
[/QUOTE]

LOL, I heard that! Amazing how some things can go from that's interesting to I think I should have an example of that…...


----------



## MikeB_UK

Well, 7 irons means it's already a multitool, they should've done a proper job and etched markings in the side to double as a ruler.

It's just possible I should stop getting more chamfer planes.


----------



## RWE

Anyone have a #50 Stanley that includes a depth stop? I just picked up a Craftsman 45 yesterday for parts. It cost me $12 and I got it for the short bars for one of my 45 planes.

The Craftsman had no irons, but had the main body parts, long and short rods and three depth stops. So I am going to try to sand/file down the post on one of the depth stops to fit the smaller hole in the #50.

*I was trying to figure out what the "standard" size was for a #50 depth stop*. I just perused Blood and Gore and it was stated that the early ones shipped without a depth stop, No mention of what the depth stop dimensions would be.

The 45 depth stop post is 1/4 inch. The #50 is 7/32.

I guess I should have posted to the 45 forum, but here it is anyway.

I am going to keep some thumb screws, but have no need for the main parts if anyone can use them. Note the weird circular spurs?? Was that a Craftsman thing or did later 45's adopt that style of spur.









Depth stops (black) and the shiny one is from Record 043 (it fits). Just want one to fit the Stanley 50 as well.










Weird spurs.

PM me if anyone could use the body sections or weird spurs (free, just shipping). I am keeping the rods and some thumb screws, depth stops.


----------



## HokieKen

Is there a slitter on there RWE? I need one for my 46 if there is a spare one there.


----------



## RWE

No slitter. Sorry.


----------



## donwilwol

that combo plane was made by Sargent for craftsman, that's why it's different than Stanley


----------



## bandit571

Busy day for planes, today..









and…









Had to plane a radius..


----------



## bandit571

The "Woody Fleet" is back in port….









2 Stanley No. 31s are over in Dry Dock..









L-R: Ohio No. 035 Razee, Sargent No. 3416 Jack, Stanley No. 28 Try, and an Ohio/Sandusky/Auburn No.81 Jointer..
Razee?









A way for a short plane to still have a tote, and allow access to the depth adjuster wheel. Plane has a very thick, tapered iron.

No. 81 has a Butcher made iron.

Olde School?


----------



## HokieKen

Some good stuff on Leach's list this month if anyone needs a #2 sized plane. A very tempting Millers Falls version if a brazed cheek doesn't sour you…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Thought about you while perusing that list…

I liked the Vaughn & Bushnell No. 4 1/2. Not enough to buy it, mind you, but it's a very nice plane indeed, one that you don't see very often.


----------



## DevinT

On a larf, I pulled out the wallet and was about to impulse-buy a busy bee hand plane to review it, but …

They don't sell a fore plane.

/me puts wallet away

Welp, that ends that.


----------



## bandit571

Devin: go to Poopiekat's thread, follow the link at the start ( I just did) and you will find a 4-1/2, a #5, a No. 5-1/2 and the #7 Jointer planes…along with quite a few other planes.


----------



## DevinT

*bandit* that's precisely what I did.

Went to go buy a No 6 to review and they don't sell one. I need a No 6. They want people to review their planes. They don't make what I need. Pretty much end of story.


----------



## bandit571

Picky, picky, picky…..And here I sit with 3 Stanley No. 6s….


----------



## DeCe40

That was the first time I've seen a V&B 4 1/2. He had some nice Sargents also this month.


----------



## DevinT

> Picky, picky, picky…..And here I sit with 3 Stanley No. 6s….
> 
> - bandit571


They just don't sell any sizes I need right now and I haven't got to the point of buying duplicates yet.


----------



## Ocelot

> Picky, picky, picky…..And here I sit with 3 Stanley No. 6s….
> 
> - bandit571


I think I have 6 no 6.


----------



## KentInOttawa

I really like my #6. I use it when I need something longer than a #4 or a 4 1/2, but I don't have a piece big enough to need a jointer. I'm actively searching for T18/19 #5 1/2 with the wider blade, but they seem to be relatively uncommon. All in good time…


----------



## 33706

> Picky, picky, picky…..And here I sit with 3 Stanley No. 6s….
> 
> - bandit571
> 
> I think I have 6 no 6.
> 
> - Ocelot


Hey, Ocelot,
I found out the hard way, few people actually give a hoot about #6's


----------



## Ocelot

Ah PK, now I'm thinking I don't have much of a problem. After all, I *do* have 6 children too.

Looks like you have enough for the 4th generation.


----------



## HokieKen

> ^ Thought about you while perusing that list…
> 
> I liked the Vaughn & Bushnell No. 4 1/2. Not enough to buy it, mind you, but it s a very nice plane indeed, one that you don t see very often.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I thought long and hard on that one Smitty. But since I have the Fulton-branded version I decided that was still a little pricey for a brazed plane. If someone was putting together a set of Type 1 users on a budget though, that would be the one to get.


----------



## HokieKen

Devin, there are a couple of Millers Falls 18s (#6 size) on Ebay that would be good deals if they sell at opening bids. Smooth bottom type 3 looks complete but there's probably a lot of rehab to polish it up to your standards ;-) And on second look, I would probably pass on the corrugated one. I didn't notice the blue frog at first. Probably not original and if not, definitely not a good fit.


----------



## 33706

> Ah PK, now I m thinking I don t have much of a problem. After all, I *do* have 6 children too.
> 
> Looks like you have enough for the 4th generation.
> 
> - Ocelot


Brings to mind one of Jay Leno's quotes as he spoke of his own life: *"Most guys in Hollywood have 100 girlfriends, and one car. I have 100 cars, and one wife."*


----------



## DevinT

> Devin, there are a couple of Millers Falls 18s (#6 size) on Ebay that would be good deals if they sell at opening bids. Smooth bottom type 3 looks complete but there s probably a lot of rehab to polish it up to your standards ;-) And on second look, I would probably pass on the corrugated one. I didn t notice the blue frog at first. Probably not original and if not, definitely not a good fit.
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks *Ken*

I am re-evaluating my needs after realizing that my hands really don't like tall knobs. I don't have many data points to go on, but here is wht I have noticed:

I can plane for days with my low knobs.

The one high knob I have is on my Veritas No 4 - and it bruises my hand and I don't know exactly why yet. I think it is because the screw is slightly proud. All I know is that low knobs give me sufficient surface area to place my hand and I suspect that is why they don't hurt my hand.

ASIDE: Probably not an issue for men, but as a woman I am finding the high knobs to be intolerable if you have to plane for 3-4 hours straight. Not because of the size of my hands, but because of the shape and how it sits in my hand.

Unfortunately it appears to be shaping-up that I either have to stick to type 12 and older Stanley's or replace the knobs on every plane I have with a low knob.


----------



## bandit571

High knob vs low knob..









2 from Millers Falls, both are No. 9s, and a low knob from Stanley..Type 11 No.3..

Tall knob grip: 









2 fingers go over the top, straddling the bolt, other 2 wrap around the bottom of the knob,,









Which leaves the thumb across the back of the knob..to steer and push..

Low knob? Index finger only across the top of the knob..The Finger across the front, other 2 go where they fit best. Thumb still is behind the knob. At no time on either style knobs, is the palm in contact with the knob.


----------



## rad457

All this reminds me of how Krenov, I was told would stop planing a piece, pick up a knife and carve his plane to feel more comfortable. Had the chance to use one of his planes a while back, did have a nice feel. Did waste a few hours the other day trying to tune my Wood smoother, maybe the reason I have a few iron body planes now?
Trying to wrap my head around planing something for "hours" guess everyone needs a hobby?


----------



## HokieKen

That's what I was thinking Andre. Not gonna find me planing for 3 or 4 hours straight with any knob ;-) That's what power tools are for ;-)


----------



## bandit571

I can only work IN the shop for 1-3 hours…depending on how many tasks are needing done.


----------



## DeCe40

Devin look this one up on ebay "Vintage Cast Iron Sargent No. 418 Corrugated Bottom 18" Woodworking Plane". Needs a new tote and not much life left on the iron but if it stays at that price you have a lot of extra cash for a replacement iron.


----------



## DevinT

I bet my great grandfather is rolling in his grave right now (mumbling something about "those yout's" and their lack of patience and satisfaction/pride in hand work).

Hobby? No, ... numbers game.

Malcolm Gladwell outlined in his famous book "Outliers" the "10,000 hour rule"

The average person takes about 10 years to reach 10,000 hours of experience in a task.

The book also talks about how once you have reached 10k hours of experience in any one area, that gaining the same level of expertise in another area does not necessarily require another 10k hours (read: 10 years) of dedication.

The more parallels you draw to your existing experience, the less time you have to spend to reach the level of mastery described in the book.

Myself? I don't have a good parallel to draw from, so, ... my plan-of-attack is to pummel myself with hours of experience-but I don't want to spend 10 years doing it; so I pack the hours on where I can.

I have been extremely successful in life because I follow the mantra …



> 2 things make you successful; things not everybody *can* do, and things not everybody is *willing* to do


Simple example: Garbage men/women in the latter category, welders in the former.

Some may look at a board, consider it to be too cupped and too far gone to put time into it …

I look at the same board and think "how many hours of experience I can extract from that board and will I learn something?"

In this case, my hours are high 2-digits edging into 3-digits, and I'm not picky about where those hours come from, but I do extract the most experience from sequential hours versus an hour-here an hour-there.

As for how I hold the knob … I am quite grateful, *bandit* for taking the time to show me how you hold it. I am likening this to perhaps my experience in billiards …

For a great many years, I thought I was getting good at pool, and one day decided to play one of the sharks (I knew they were sharks, they knew I knew they were sharks-they always saw me in there, and I never once took them up on an offer to play, knowing I would lose). My decision to finally play them was predicated on a different kind of unspoken arrangement-I was going to lose, I knew it, but I brought enough money so that I could lose multiple times in a day, multiple days a week, for many weeks. There was never any false pretense that I was good, and I studied every move and asked lots of questions. What they taught me (correct or not) was …

If you use a closed bridge to hold your cue, you will only ever become so good at pool. There will be a ceiling to how good you can get until you switch to an open bridge. All the sharks had open bridges.

Whether or not this is true is of course debatable, but if you look at Nick Varner, in 1991 he's using a closed bridge for every shot, but by 1994 he's only using a closed bridge on the break in tournament and open bridge for every other shot.

My own personal experience is that-as the sharks warned me-changing from a closed to an open bridge your game will get worse (often times *much* worse) before it gets better but once you reach where you were with the closed bridge you will notice that you very shortly surpass that level.

It bore true to my own experience. My game got worse (so bad) before not-long I got better. One night, I was playing another gal in league and she snickered because she blocked me. I called a full-table bank to a carom on the corner pocket to sink my 2nd-to-last ball and then took down the 8. I retired from league after that-I don't think I'll ever top that call. I occasionally pull out the cue to play co-workers for fun, but last time I walked into a hall just to practice with myself, I got asked to join another league.

So, yeah … holding the front knob correctly of my plane differently could mean the difference between good and great.

Can't wait to try the suggested hold by *bandit*


----------



## DevinT

> Devin look this one up on ebay "Vintage Cast Iron Sargent No. 418 Corrugated Bottom 18" Woodworking Plane". Needs a new tote and not much life left on the iron but if it stays at that price you have a lot of extra cash for a replacement iron.
> 
> - DeCe40


Thanks, checking it out.


----------



## HokieKen

I am very familiar with Outliers and the 10000 Hour Rule Devin. And I applaud your commitment 

Regarding knob grip, I'll have to pay more attention to my "default" grip. But, I can say for sure that I change grips depending on the plane and the task. Scrubbing or any other heavy-ish cut I think my grip is about opposite Bandits with my ring finger about top center and force concentrated down and forward. For face jointing, my grip is probably about the same as Bandits. For edge jointing, I don't grip the knob but the nose of the plane with 3 fingers on the adjacent face of the board to help maintain a consistent angle. For smoothing, the knob rests in the crook of my thumb and forefinger and the other 3 rest on nose of the plane.

Why my grips evolved to be such, I can't really say. But I'd venture to say that 10 people probably hold the plane 10 slightly different ways


----------



## DevinT

The problem for me is that the Veritas No 4 has such a short nose and is so heavy (significantly heavier than a Stanley Bailey No 5 even) that if I don't push down with my palm when starting the cut, the plane won't register flat as I start to push. This is before I have even started the cut.

Come to think of it… all my low knob planes have tremendous noses and perhaps this has nothing to do with high-vs-low knob but nose length versus over-all weight.

NOTE: Still going to try the no-palm grips both yourself (*Ken*) and *bandit* employ, but I am thinking this has more to do with other factors.


----------



## DeCe40

That 418 also has one of the nice beaded low knobs on it.


----------



## DevinT

> That 418 also has one of the nice beaded low knobs on it.
> 
> - DeCe40


This Millers Falls 418 that you linked-to (the smooth bottom one) doesn't look like a low knob to me.


----------



## bandit571

Millers Falls never used them….was always a high knob…


----------



## HokieKen

I linked the Millers Falls 18. Sargent made the 418.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I recently joined TATHS, the Tool And Trades Historical Society and got their newsletters from last summer and autumn. In the "whatsit" section of the newsletter was an article on the Tectool, which some might remember I sent to Mos in the Secret Santa.

I thought that was pretty neat.

Here's the page from the newsletter for those who are interested. Apparently they made a rabbet plane as well.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here's a couple pics of an Edwin Hahn No. 2 smoother:


----------



## DevinT

Ooooo, checkering! Fancy! Very nice plane.


----------



## Mosquito

And an Edwin Hahn #2 is similar in size to the Stanley #4 if I remember correctly?


----------



## Mosquito

I need to get my Siegley's down to where I can use them. Right now they're in a display case on top of the #45 display cabinet


----------



## RWE

Mos:

What is the price range in your estimate for a fairly clean Siegley #7. I have one and am thinking of doing the Ebay thing with it. I could not dig up much on recent sales.

I have always liked the looks of the plane, but don't need two 7's. I favor a Bedrock 607 that I purchased from JayT a while back.

Post Stanley takeover model I believe:


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Devin.


----------



## bandit571

Ok..see how many planes YOU can find here…(including the Stanley45)..









7 man crew, 7 different tool chests…..Wonder how such a crew would do, today?


----------



## bandit571

Picture is from the US Forestry Service, BTW


----------



## Notw

Bandit if I was a betting man I would wager that crew would do a faster, better job today


----------



## DevinT

*bandit* ... I'm counting 12 hand planes visible but yeah, that's a tough one


----------



## RWE

Sorry to break the faith, but when I blew the picture up, handsaws started talking to me. I want the saws.


----------



## bandit571

In how many Mitre Boxes?


----------



## RWE

Well, I want the handsaws that would be called panel saws I guess, but they sure are big panels. Full sized saws all over the place.

Got some nice slicks in the bottom right.


----------



## MikeB_UK

I was more on the beam drills than the saws.


----------



## DevinT

I was looking at that drawknife-I like the hatchets too


----------



## bandit571

Just imagine having to haul those tool boxes from site to site, back then. 
That might be the Lead Carpenter on the left, the one holding the Story Pole.

And..NO..I am NOT that short guy over on the right….


----------



## DevinT

I imagine a good carpenter had to be given a lead time on arriving on site and often sent his tools ahead of him. Once he had been telegraphed that his tools had arrived he would then follow suit. Though would probably need a month or two prep time to get them ready to ship.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I apologize, I have been out dusting off some of my oddball planes. Here is probably the most uncommon example of a Stanley that I have. I refer to it as a US version of the "H" planes that were made available in England. I think there was a 4 1/2H and a 5 1/2H. The "H" designation was there because of a heavy base casting. I took a picture of this No. 4 next to my brilliant blue 604 to show the noticeably thicker casting of the No. 4. Both of these planes were made before the raised rib was added to Stanley planes. Not sure how uncommon the heavy base is but it's the only one I have seen.


----------



## bandit571

Along with the "Buckboard" wagons to haul from the Train Station to the jobsite…


----------



## DeCe40

RWE it's hit and miss with the Siegley's. Some times they sell low other ones sell high. That's a Stanley made Siegley right?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Mos and others, Here is a picture to show size comparison.
Front to back: 
E.Hahn No. 2
Siegley No. 3
Stanley No. 4
Stanley Bedrock 604










OOPS! I better go look again. Might not be the Siegley in that bunch. : (

EDIT number 2: Sorry 'bout that. It was a Union X something. But I found the Siegley and it is shaped like the Hahn and the same size.

Some difference in size between these four but not a lot. Hadn't noticed it before but the Hahn has a squared-off nose.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Bandit, you've shown that picture before if I recall correctly. Which one of those guys is your son?


----------



## donwilwol

Anyone have a bit of history on kunz? I know they're from Germany but that's about as far as I've ever got.


----------



## drsurfrat

> ... Not sure how uncommon the heavy base is but it s the only one I have seen.
> - BlasterStumps


Uncommon enough to get an asterisk on Leach's Supertool site.


----------



## donwilwol

http://www.tresselt-gmbh.de/index.php/en/our-company


----------



## donwilwol

Sup post


----------



## drsurfrat

Your question piqued my interest, and of course your site showed up at the top of a search…

I have a 112 made by them, it seems near as good (functionally) as a vintage one, but with a little L-R play in the card holder.

They have a No 62 low angle jack, maybe their prices might compete with the latest craze.

I also saw one marked "Made in *West* Germany" that means they have been around since before 1989.

PS. the prices seem to be above $200, and one site said "Since 1992"


----------



## drsurfrat

OK one more thing Poppe dup. They may be named Tresselt. Kunz gumbo is an aircraft machinery company.
Tresselt was est. 1992…


----------



## HokieKen

Mike - that H is AWESOME  I like my smoothers short, wide and BEEFY. So a 4-1/2 with extra mass fits the bill perfectly. Too bad the frog ain't red ;-)

Don - I know nothing except that Kunz has tempted me for years and has thus far been unsuccessful. I was briefly intrigued by their LAJ but ended up going with a Veritas and I've been pondering their 112 for some time now. But it lacks the camber screw of the Veritas version and is only $50 less so I've been hesitant. Mike's comment about it having some slop in the holder pretty much pushes me over the Veritas line. Plus the Kunz comes with plastic furniture that's neither red nor translucent.

The green would match my cape though…


----------



## drsurfrat

f*&^ing auto correct - .popped up. and .Tresselt gmbh. is what should have posted.

I have the sitter screw, just coordinate it with Andre so we aren't confused…


----------



## adot45

I have some Kunz planes and know that they also made their versions of a #4 bench plane, 113 compass plane, 220 block plane (Stanley numbers) and some others…Mike has their 112 clone.


----------



## rad457

Not sure about all there hand planes but bought a couple pf there spoke shaves and design, quality same as vintage models I have seen/used.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Trying to figure out how bad I want to mess with this.









There's no pitting and I can't feel any of it dragging a fingernail across but from an anesthetic standpoint, it's not pretty. The sole has a little degradation but not nearly as bad, the opposite side also isn't nearly as bad as this side. It still cleans up with a near mirror finish when viewed at an angle.


----------



## HokieKen

What plane is that Yeti? Whether to polish all that out would depend on (a) whether the plane was worth the effort and (b) whether the casting is thick enough on the cheek to handle the material removal.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Yeti, looks like a job for one of those rust removal wheels or whatever they are called. I have a small 3" used wheel that really does a nice job for it's size but they make some wider ones. Maybe they are 3M

Maybe an older Veritas?


----------



## bigblockyeti

Veritas #4 ~ 7 years old.


----------



## HokieKen

I'd probably clean that up if it was me Yeti. If not for appearance sake then to prevent it from getting in any deeper.


----------



## bandit571

Had to switch out the Atkins No. 50 Coping saw….and bring in the Red handled replacement..a Millers Falls No. 43….from Greenfield MASS. Had a better blade, too…

90 minutes of shoptime, today….too sore and tired to get much done,,
From this…









To this…









Since somebody here happens to like Millers Falls things…


----------



## bandit571

Something for Kenny:










Glue line clean up = random plane picture…









Millers Falls No. 9, Type 4….last of the "Good" types…


----------



## HokieKen

Don't worry Bandit, I won't try to steal your type 4s ;-) They are great planes. I just don't like the look and feel of the totes or the look of the adjuster nuts. But the wood doesn't know the difference… And I've had an eye out for a #42 coping saw for a couple of years to no avail.


----------



## Notw

Question for those of you using the Dupli-color engine enamel to paint planes. I noticed after painting my No. 8 and the frog that part of the frog didn't paint well. I don't see anything on the can about how long to wait to recoat (can states to get all coats within 30 minutes). Other paints I've used in the past you have to wait 48hrs but I don't see anything on the can about a wait time. Does anyone have any experience with this?


----------



## RWE

I don't know about the wait time question, however, I believe that Sansoo has a blog here that might answer that question. Based on that blog, I baked my last plane in the oven (see blog for time and temperature, my memory is not that great) and the Dupli-Color engine enamel "flowed" and looked much better, smoother. I will be baking all future plane paint jobs.


----------



## Notw

as tempting as that sounds RWE I don't think SWMBO would be very happy if i started baking planes in the oven


----------



## RWE

I neglected to mention that I stealth baked my plane when SWMBO was away for a few hours. You have to learn to improvise and do the steps that are necessary to achieve your goals.


----------



## HokieKen

> Question for those of you using the Dupli-color engine enamel to paint planes. I noticed after painting my No. 8 and the frog that part of the frog didn t paint well. I don t see anything on the can about how long to wait to recoat (can states to get all coats within 30 minutes). Other paints I ve used in the past you have to wait 48hrs but I don t see anything on the can about a wait time. Does anyone have any experience with this?
> 
> - Notw


I'd wait at least a week. In the absence of baking, that paint doesn't really fully cure for several days. Even though it's cured to the touch in 24 hours, I believe there's still some shrinkage that will occur. If you re-coat before it's fully cured you're liable to get crappy results.

*Edit to add:* Duplicolor says wait 5 days..


----------



## bandit571

I usually use 3 LIGHT coats..5-10 minutes apart…then left sit overnight…with the first coat just enough to fill in any pits….and missing japanning spots…pause to shake the can a bit….then spray again…more of a "Spritz"....shake the can again….top coat to even things out.


----------



## Notw

Thanks Ken, i looked on the website for the product but didn't think to go to the FAQ section. Looks like Thursday i can reapply


----------



## Ocelot

As for Kunz, I have the Kunz 65 chamfer shave, which I picked up second hand for about 1/3 the price of a Stanley. PoopieKat has one too, as I recall. Seems fine to me, though Kunz spokeshaves seem not to be much loved.


----------



## drsurfrat

I have a Kunz 112, but haven't used it much. It has a little side-to-side slop along the pivoting rod/levercap, but everything else is as solid as any Stanley I have held. Plastic handles are even comfortable.


----------



## bandit571

Random plane picture for today…









1st rebate..









Last rebate….Sargent #79 vs Stanley #78…..


----------



## DevinT

Today's shenanigans


----------



## HokieKen

Whatcha doin' there Devin?


----------



## DevinT

Trying to determine the angle at which my wrist is most comfortable.

So far 17 degrees feels pretty good. My wrist doesn't rotate too much at the full extension of my arm, nor does it rotate too much upon pulling my arm to my waist.

By super gluing the handle to a protractor style sliding bevel gauge, I can use the "fence" of the gauge to ride along the edge of my bench - simulating a fenced plane with a tote.

I can change the angle, lock the angle, then practice a few pushes while keeping an eye on my wrist.


----------



## donwilwol

When I paint with dupli color I set my phone timer for 15 minutes between coats. If you go more than an hour I'd wait at least a week. I made the mistake of recoating after an hour and paid for it. It looked like crap but was almost impossible to strip.


----------



## donwilwol

Duplicate post but I will add.
I never bake it and I usually put it back together and continue with it after about 2 hours. You may have to be a little careful but you won't hurt it. Usually by then I'm ready to make shaving with it.


----------



## HokieKen

> Trying to determine the angle at which my wrist is most comfortable.
> 
> So far 17 degrees feels pretty good. My wrist doesn't rotate too much at the full extension of my arm, nor does it rotate too much upon pulling my arm to my waist.
> 
> By super gluing the handle to a protractor style sliding bevel gauge, I can use the "fence" of the gauge to ride along the edge of my bench - simulating a fenced plane with a tote.
> 
> I can change the angle, lock the angle, then practice a few pushes while keeping an eye on my wrist.
> 
> - DevinT


Is it just and exercise of curiosity or are you designing custom totes for yourself?


----------



## DevinT

Rebate saw. I am attaching a plane tote to a rebate (rabbet) saw - also known as a kerfing plane or grooving plane


----------



## bandit571

IF a tool has a handle that hurts to use it….then change to something that doesn't. Important part is…it has to fit YOUR hands….and be comfortable to use, that you would want to use that tool. Doesn't matter what type of tool, either….

Uncle Arthur (itis) seems to like my hands…..and I have to adjust my grips, sometimes.


----------



## Mosquito

Drive by, I do still use my tools


----------



## DevinT

Beautiful! That looks like sansoo's quality work


----------



## theoldfart

Sweet shavings Mos, one of your Hocks in there?

Nope, just looked more closely.


----------



## Mosquito

That's a Sansoo restored KK 5-1/2 with IBC iron. Must have gotten it 3 or 4 months ago now I think. After having slung the #8 around for a while, the #5-1/2 actually felt small and light lol

I've got an IBC iron for all my KK planes except the #5, which I'm only tempted to get an IBC for completeness of the matching aesthetic. Otherwise I'll probably just keep the stock iron in that one unless/until I decide I need to buy other IBC things. It's a flat $30 shipping, so add that on top of a $45 plane iron… ouch. Gotta spread that shipping out a little more.

Circled back to my dutch tool chest after a … I actually think it's a 7 year hiatus after we moved and it ended up pulling packing/storing duties.


----------



## HokieKen

That panel's looking good Mos'. The plane looks mighty sweet too!


----------



## Notw

I know that WoodRiver makes a small chisel plane and Lie-Nielson makes small chisel plane which they say is half size of the Stanley No. 97 but my question is did Stanley ever make a half sized version of the 97?


----------



## HokieKen

48 1/2


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Funny Kenny.


----------



## adot45

+1 LOL, Ah that humor….ya gotta luv it.


> 48 1/2
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## corelz125

Smitty might have the 48 1/2


----------



## Sylvain

What i this?
found in tools from my great grand father:

























I recently found the answer in this video:




jump at about 6' to see it in action.
It seems to be known in Germany as a "Wangenhobel" which google translate in "cheek plane".


----------



## controlfreak

Nice find there Sylvain, I didn't come up with that type of use till I watched the video. I guess if the ploughed groove wasn't wide enough they couldn't just add a few shims to the dado stack back then. Do you know what your great Grand father's trade was. I think mine was from your neck of the woods. My daughter started researching and said "are these people stupid, they keep changing the country of birth?" I had to explain the there were two world wars and the boarders kept changing. Still have a medal from one Grand parent that I met when I was too small to remember. It was for the Great War for Civilization. The didn't call it WWI until WWII came along.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Lemmee check, be right back….



> Smitty might have the 48 1/2
> 
> - corelz125


----------



## Sylvain

My great grand father was a fine furniture maker.
He was already dead when I was born.
I once have seen an animated map showing the boarder changes in Europe during a few centuries. 
found one: 




I don't know if he had used dado stacks at that time but it is now forbidden in Europe. One has to use a shaper or a router… if one wants to use machinery.


----------



## controlfreak

That was very interesting to watch Sylvain, thank you for posting.


----------



## controlfreak

Back to planes, I have a chisel plane that is a Stanley I think but am wondering if it is a broken plane that got converted. I can't find any irregular marks or filing areas. I think this is the right place to find some answers.


----------



## drsurfrat

It is definitely a convert . Looks like a No 4 with the front broken off. It looks good, though… And if the iron goes to the outside of the bed casting, that is even better


----------



## controlfreak

I bought it before I knew about broken planes becoming modified. Might move the tote to a No. 5 that is in need.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Finaly got around to tweaking my yew plane, handle reshaped a bit, sharp bevel smoothed out, stike button cut down a bit and cheeks deepened to ease chip clearance.
It's working very nicely now.


----------



## corelz125

CF is that a #10 iron and chip breaker on that?


----------



## bandit571

Open a door, this morning…









Stanley No. 5, Type 19…hanging out with the spare chisels…

Others were trying to hide in a corner..









Next project will be a rack to hold a bunch of squares….and clean up that corner….









Something a bit better than this…

We'll see. There is another THREE Stanley No. 5, Type 19 hiding behind the other door…


----------



## DevinT

I bought plans to make a cabinet like the one pictured above by *bandit* and am now realizing (not a bad thing) I will need some more tools to pull off the build.


----------



## drsurfrat

> I bought it before I knew about broken planes becoming modified. Might move the tote to a No. 5 that is in need.
> - controlfreak


I dunno, it looks like a really useful setup. And the No 5 needs a different tote, one with a second screw.


----------



## controlfreak

> CF is that a #10 iron and chip breaker on that?
> 
> - corelz125


I never really took it apart before, it was an acquisition phase I went through without knowing much about what I was getting.








It looks like the iron was altered to fit and the slot was elongated into the makers stamp. The Iron also has a primitive looking taper where it is much thinner at the top.








Chip breaker has no markings but the metal is consistent with the iron.


----------



## RWE

That looks like a Jack Rabbet iron. That may be a half Jack Rabbet.


----------



## corelz125

Yea that iron was altered. Not a bad idea to use those old heavy irons. Does the chip breaker look like it was shop made or from a #10?


----------



## BlasterStumps

i've put together a couple of the wall mounted tool storage cabinets as shown above Devin. I built the first one with the side wings mounted with piano hinges. I never closed them. The second one, I just fastened the side wings on to the main carcass, no hinges. If I was to build another such cabinet, I would give some consideration to whether on not I would close it up. If not or only on occasion, I would save the money for the hinges.


----------



## DevinT

> i ve put together a couple of the wall mounted tool storage cabinets as shown above Devin. I built the first one with the side wings mounted with piano hinges. I never closed them. The second one, I just fastened the side wings on to the main carcass, no hinges. If I was to build another such cabinet, I would give some consideration to whether on not I would close it up. If not or only on occasion, I would save the money for the hinges.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


You don't close it when working power tools to minimize dust accumulation? I have a small shop (~50 sq.ft.) and when I use my router surfacing jig it can get pretty dusty.


----------



## Sylvain

If I were doing a cabinet, I would consider one with a roll shutter like on this old Stanley one:
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/stanley-951-roll-oak-tool-cabinet-1787923395


----------



## drsurfrat

I believe that is called a tambour door. The vertical travel is a good space saver, most I have seen are horizontal and take up valuable footprint on the side of the cabinet.


----------



## Sylvain

> - Sylvain


It seems I made an error pointing to a video without giving an explanation of my own.
The "Wangenhobel" I have found in my great grand father's tools is used to widen grooves when grooves are a bit too tight to accept the panel which they are supposed to support.
if one google "Wangenhobel" and click on "picture", one will see a black & white picture showing how it is used.
Sorry, I haven't used it yet.

Concerning the video, I am in no way affiliated to the guy producing it.
He is producing a few videos about hand tools but visibly he doesn't use them often. He is a professional "Tischler" and (time is money) a "machinist" most of the time.
(In another video he is using machinery to reduce the width of a wedge while a whack with a chisel would have been perfectly ok - the width was not critical and would be unseen anyway).


----------



## Mosquito

I recently started this one back up again


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I built that exact cabinet in my earlier days Devin and didn't like it. I never shut it and all of my tools ended up living in the tool well on the bench. I hated that too. Finally solved it for me at least. I built a bench with no tool well and put drawers under it. I actually put things away now and they are all nice and safe/clean in a drawer.

Just my .02.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I like cabinets with hinges and tambour doors.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mos, for the first time ever, I've been entertaining thoughts of making a Dutch chest… looking fwd to hearing your thoughts on usefulness (?) when yours is done.


----------



## bandit571

The 2 doors on mine stay shut…unless I need to get out a tool, then I close the doors back up. Not enough room to work with them open, anyway. Need to learn to put tools away, more often than a the end of a Project…









Things can get a bit…..messy…

There IS a shelf under the top of the bench…filled with a ready rack of planes….shelf extends just enough, that a panel can sit on that ledge, and be held by the leg vise. The 2 drawer cabinet down below that shelf is mostly filled with "spare" chisels….









Welcome to my little world


----------



## bandit571

So….how many toys..er..TOOLS can you ID ?


----------



## HokieKen

I am plumb out of floor space and wall space in my shop. I need some better hand tool storage. Thinking one of the 4 roll-around tool boxes needs to go. But all 4 are full and full of stuff I actually use. Am planning on adding a storage building out back this year to get all the lawn stuff out of the shop and that will reclaim a corner of all wall space. So I'm kinda waiting on that to make any hard plans on proceeding. The under-bench cabinet continues to grow on me though. And that wall space could be partially shelved for miter boxes and my mortiser which currently take up the bulk of the space on the shelf under my bench at present. A nice wall cabinet would be a nice addition and a fun project. Just not sure how practical it would be for me.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Won't be long Kenny, just give in now so it's not a prolonged ordeal. The cabinet under the bench is the answer no doubt.


----------



## RichT

> I am plumb out of floor space and wall space in my shop.
> 
> - HokieKen


Ditto. Mine is one of those circular reasoning problems. I can't do A without doing B first, and I can't do B until A is complete.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

+1



> Won't be long Kenny, just give in now so it's not a prolonged ordeal. The cabinet under the bench is the answer no doubt.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photo for today…









Stanley No. 5, Type 19…..one of 4 that call the tool cabinet home….


----------



## Mosquito

I'll try to remember to share my thoughts Smitty. I'm not even sure what I'll put in it yet to be honest. I had ideas when I started it 7 years ago, but I'll have to reevaluate.

Picked up a couple of 39s today at our regional MWTCA meet, along with some Starrett tramel points. Making a beam for it, in progress.

39s are 1/4", 1/2", 3/4"


----------



## Mosquito

And in action (briefly, because shorts)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Love the 39s… so far only have one, and it hasn't spawned others.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm going to try to keep it to 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4, and see if I can convince myself that those are all I need…


----------



## bandit571

I do happen to have the 3/8" version…Can be used to clean out 3/4" dados, too


----------



## HokieKen

Very nice Mos. I don't think I realized the 39s had skewed blades. Looks like a nice user but I'm unlikely to buy a dado plane without an adjustable fence.


----------



## terryR

+1 to adjustable fences on any groovy plane.

I've made a lousy attempt at reading the past 2 years of posts here, sure as hell hope there is no test. LOL But I'm back to talk about planes, or whatever…

I have NOT purchased a plane in over 3 years, but I just finished this one recently from Bronze, steel, and Brazilian Ebony.



















and the next should be done tomorrow!


----------



## HokieKen

Beautiful work TR. Good to see you back peenin' tails!


----------



## Mosquito

What do you mean no adjustable fence? Put the batten wherever you want, doesn't even have to be parallel to anything . Using a #46 in the middle of a bookshelf side would result in the same operation, unless your bookshelf was really short, but I get it. For anything close enough to the edge I'd probably just prefer a fence too.

Welcome back Terry, looking forward to seeing more of those around here


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah the fence is only good for so far Mos'. But for me, that's most of the time - drawer bottoms, sliding box lids, that kind of stuff. Setting the batten parallel can be a pain for somebody whose OCD compels them to use a caliper instead of a rule ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

haha just cut the dados and make the board match afterwards :-D

What I like about these so far, is it's just ready to go, no messing with it (apart from getting the iron set and centered, common to most). I don't think it would have been that difficult to have a #39 with a fence either, but then they take up even more space (these 3 take up less foot print than a #45 with short rods)


----------



## donwilwol

Glad to see you're back Terry


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice work Terry. I like the setting hammer too.


----------



## bandit571

While cleaning up the tool cabinet…noticed one of these planes..









The one hiding in the corner….Stanley No. 3, Type 11…..other one is a later model No.4. There is also a No. 102 and a 103 sitting there, along with the MOS A-block plane. And…the Stanley No. 80…..

That big front end?









Is a Stanley No. 8, Type 7…...there are 3 jacks sitting behind it…all Stanley No. 5, Type 19s…..


----------



## Mosquito

When I was emptying my tool chest to start working on it again, I came across all kinds of goodies lol 2 Keen Kutter bedrock style #5's (K5), a Millers Falls No. 9, couple blocks and other various screw cap style bench planes, bunch of push style Millers Falls screwdrivers, some molding plane irons, clock parts, saw nuts, 4 different sets of turn screws… I might have to have a shop sale soon lol


----------



## ac0rn

Deep tool chests are just like chest freezers. Once something gets comfortable and cozy in the bottom, it stays there, forgotten for ages.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah but the bodies hidden in the freezer don't smell as bad as the ones in the tool chest ;-)


----------



## rad457

> Yeah but the bodies hidden in the freezer don't smell as bad as the ones in the tool chest ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Duh! that's why we have compost for the garden!


----------



## Bertha

I do the same thing with my "to-be-restored" tools; pack them in a bin and open them at a later date. It's like Christmas all over again. I made a deal with my wife that I'd restore a minimum of 1 tool per week lol.


----------



## bandit571

Where ya been, Dude! Long tome no see!


----------



## HokieKen

I won some money in a Super Bowl block pool Sunday night. So I thought to myself "ya know what? You been after a 112 for several years now, just go ahead and blow this found money and finally order it!" So I went to Lee Valley to place the order  I knew it would be on back order since everything is. But new stock is "expected" at the end of June :-( And in my experience with LV, that deep of a backorder means I *may* get it in 2022…

So a buddy suggests I look at LN because he really likes his. So I do. "No longer in production until further notice." And it doesn't have the camber screw which is one of the main reasons the Veritas sits atop my list of preferences.

The reason I haven't bought the Veritas before now is because I always have the hope of scoring a vintage Stanley or Sargent in need of some TLC for a decent price. But I've all but abandoned that hope. Vintage Stanleys regularly sell for the same price or more than a Veritas and lack the camber screw, not to mention the "newness".

Currently there is a lightly used Veritas on Ebay. But it's already bid within $20 of a new one and has 5 days left in the auction. I'd probably pay slightly over list price to get my hands on it soon. But not much. And in truth it's no emergency. I don't really have any projects at present that would benefit from the 112 over my 12 or 80.

I almost "impulse" bought the Veritas small scraper plane but then thought better of it. It has a fixed angle and I really just don't think I'd reach for it instead of the #80 or just a handheld card.

The only real option available immediately is the Kunz. It's around the $150 mark so it's ~25% cheaper than the Veritas. But it also lacks the camber screw, has plastic handles, has reports of being roughly finished and by at least one reliable report (drsurfrat) has some slop in the holding mechanics. Not to mention it's butt ugly. So I've pretty much ruled that one out unless I stumbled on a used one for < 1/2 the cost of a new one.

So for the time being, I guess I'm gonna keep an eye on Ebay and see if/when stock of the Veritas shows up on LV. I'm planning to go to Handworks in September so maybe they'll have some on hand there and I can try it out and pick one up in person


----------



## corelz125

Kenny I bought my Sargent 59 from the Facebook group can I have it for a very good price. I haven't been following the auctions lately but maybe someone else in here can keep an eye out if they have been watching.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm still stubbornly holding out on Facebook. Usually I can have my wife reach out if I find something on marketplace I'm interested in. But I don't think I want her being in the middle of my tool acquisitions…


----------



## bigblockyeti

> I m still stubbornly holding out on Facebook. Usually I can have my wife reach out if I find something on marketplace I m interested in. But I don t think I want her being in the middle of my tool acquisitions…
> 
> - HokieKen


Do what I do, use your wife's account just for tool acquisitions with the promise to not troll the HOA page with anything resembling facts or requests for accountability.


----------



## HokieKen

No worries about that Yeti. She learned just how strongly I feel about HOAs when we were house hunting ;-)


----------



## bigblockyeti

I wasn't a fan but we have a pool and it's cheap, just too many Julie's worrying about others' businesss.


----------



## controlfreak

Last HOA house I looked at was late like after dinner late and in the entire neighborhood it had no car in any driveway, not one. Knowing that I had to make room for a garage shop I asked if parking in the driveway was a problem. The answer was "that could be frowned on", I bailed because I knew if I fired up any power tool I would get served.


----------



## HokieKen

Ditto. We have 3 vehicles, 2 motorcycles and several kid's bikes. And not a damn one of them goes in my garage except my motorcycle on some occasions. I usually keep loud power tools and open bay doors between 9am and 7pm but that's a courtesy. If somebody decided they were going to tell me when I could make noise, I'd likely go nocturnal just out of spite.


----------



## DevinT

I live in a community with an HOA. I even served on the HOA for 2.5 years in the past.

We're a relaxed community with at least 4 or 5 woodworkers. We're all packed-in tight, but nobody complains. I think we're just more easy-going than the places you describe. I think in all the time on the HOA, the worst thing we ever did was to fine someone for parking in a fire lane (not once, not twice, but for months on-end; so they got sent a fine for basically acting like a scoff-law for months).


----------



## rad457

I happen to have a Veritas Scraping plane, that I doubt I will ever use again, wonder what shipping would be?


----------



## HokieKen

> I happen to have a Veritas Scraping plane, that I doubt I will ever use again, wonder what shipping would be?
> 
> - Andre


Not too much. PM me if you really want to sell it. I definitely want it


----------



## SuperJoe

My #12 & corrugated #6.


----------



## bigblockyeti

It seems nobody in this neighborhood has all vehicles in the garage, I would guess 60% have zero as the garages are too small (20' × 19' on some houses) for two vehicles and the ability to actually get in and out of them. We've got few woodworkers and they board doesn't have the power to issue fines, that would take a 2/3 vote to change the rules and that ain't happening.


----------



## rad457

The Plane, Da Plane Boss








Any guess's as too the Wood it is on?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Natural beech?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Looks like salt cedar or leopard wood.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Oh whatever Kenny will give you for that plane I'll give you a $1 more. Just to mess with him.


----------



## HokieKen

I offered $725 but you can have it for the extra dollar Dave.


----------



## DanKrager

Andre, me thinks it's sycamore. Nice scraper!



















DanK


----------



## rad457

sycamore? maybe pretty soft, the wood came from Mississippi I think, strange how the wood changes from some nice rays to straight grain.



> I offered $725 but you can have it for the extra dollar Dave.
> 
> - HokieKen


That CAN $ ? Dang haven't been watching the exchange rate close enough Well maybe after shipping is included?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> I offered $725 but you can have it for the extra dollar Dave.
> 
> - HokieKen


I know you Kenny. $725…..uh huh. Biggest cheap ass I know.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> sycamore? maybe pretty soft, the wood came from Mississippi I think, strange how the wood changes from some nice rays to straight grain.
> 
> I offered $725 but you can have it for the extra dollar Dave.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> That CAN $ ? Dang haven t been watching the exchange rate close enough Well maybe after shipping is included?
> 
> - Andre


I have the LN version so Kenny can pay the $725. Totally worth messing with him though.


----------



## Mosquito

Tiny rant…

As much as I like that St James Bay Tool co makes hard to find reproduction parts (though the quality has been hit or miss for me so far), they still annoy the crap out of me. Looking at two replacement spurs for a #39, $11 each… ok fine. $4.50 and $4 for shipping. Add to cart, request total "They don't do combined shipping". Ouch, guarantee they'll show up in the same package. Probably just don't want to deal with having to combine or set up combined shipping?

Maybe I can live without …


----------



## KelleyCrafts

That's a worthy rant Mos and I agree. As someone who sells online and ships fairly often, shipping costs are the worst part of the business for a small seller. When you can go to Amazon, Walmart, even Lee Valley and get free shipping then people don't expect you to charge a ton for shipping if any at all. To not combine shipping is literally just ostracizing your customer and looks greedy for the business. They should be able to do the shipping based on cart total or something to that affect instead of just charging a flat rate on each item. It's easier for them to do it the way they are but it doesn't look good overall.

To play devils advocate, not many places you can go to buy that stuff either. So I guess they can call whatever shots they want.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, I agree Dave. That's why I prefaced it with as much as I like that they make hard to find parts. It just feels lazy to me, but I guess I don't know what their volume is like either; maybe it's just not worth the time to try to make that extra effort. I'm not expecting free shipping, but combining would be nice, knowing that they have about a 98% chance of showing up in the same packaging. It's not a huge issue, it's at most $4.50 extra, just fundamentally annoying


----------



## HokieKen

Not to mention the actual shipping cost of those two blades is probably about $1.50. Which I understand packaging and time being factored in as well. So $4 is fine IMO. But double charging it when it doesn't cost any more money or time on their end is kind of annoying. Of course the other side of the coin is, where else you gonna get it? I'd say I could make you a couple but the cost of material alone would put me past what they're charging.


----------



## controlfreak

It may be that there online ordering is not sophisticated enough to do the shipping math on the fly and it is a one part one ship rate per. Of course, why fix it because the bad math is always in their favor.


----------



## HokieKen

True but if you request a total from the seller, they can adjust the shipping just as easily as they can reply to tell you they aren't going to adjust shipping.


----------



## Mosquito

It's eBay, so they just selected the option to not allow it, as it was an automated eBay message and not a reply from them directly.

I guess whatever they've gotta do to do stay in business, it's their business not mine, but that doesn't mean I can't be annoyed out of principle


----------



## rad457

Shipping tends to upset me some what, now with the exchange rate ordering from down south just doesn't make sense, reminds me of years ago when trying to get Memory sticks or SD cards from the States, $25.00 shipping for 2 SD cards? Free shipping from China?? Only good thing is that at least now we can actually get more things Local.
Speaking of which need to head to the Post Office, selling off my Grand Daughters Inheritance


----------



## bandit571

Plane tils have been re-organized…

Have 2 No. 5s both Craftsman branded…one is a Stanley, the other by Millers Falls….set aside, deemed as "Extra"..Along with a Sargent 409…..also deemed "Extra"

Hidden amongst all those planes…3 Stanley No. 3, Type 11, plus a No. 4, Type 11….might just keep them…

Combo Square Rack put up a fight….put it IS installed…and filled.

Camera will go a;ong, the next time I go to the shop…


----------



## Mosquito

shipping from the UK to the US sure does suck these days too lol

To be fair though, China used to have (and probably still does) HEAVILY subsidize shipping rates for people selling things and shipping them like that


----------



## HokieKen

I generally try to shop in the US just because of shipping costs and lead times these days. I don't have a problem spending my USD north of the border though if the deal is right ;-)


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I have been known to spend significantly more for US made but I have also ordered more than my share from Lee Valley so I can agree North of the border is fine with me.


----------



## Mosquito

I generally try to buy over here too, because of the lead times.

But Record, Marples, and various other tools are much more common over in the UK than over here, and ya gotta feed the addiction sometimes lol


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Buying the used tools you just get them where you find them, I was mainly referring to manufactured goods. Collectibles are fair game imo.


----------



## rad457

A few of my Stanley's have come from the UK. seem to have heavier castings? Kept the Eng. #78 over the USA, heavier and perfect Japanning. 
Sargent 409 you say, an extra you say?? My Little 407 has been asking for some help lately. those big old Stanley's an Millers Falls have been making fun of him!


----------



## corelz125

You try contacting St James Bay Mos? I heard he's hard to get a hold of though online.


----------



## DevinT

According to "Legend of Stanley" (book published in 1995), when Americans lost interest in hand tools and largely switched to power tools in the (then) billion dollar market (in the 1950's), Stanley shuttered their US factories and moved all the machinery to the UK, Sheffield plant-and so that is why there is a larger selection in UK in the past decades (or so it would seem).


----------



## KentInOttawa

> shipping from the UK to the US sure does suck these days too lol
> 
> - Mosquito


But shipping from the UK to Canada is about the same as shipping from the US to here. I tend to buy what appeals to me but will admit that the total cost including shipping and duty/brokerage fees is certainly a factor.


----------



## rad457

No duty/brokerage fees if you ship as a gift The "Present" I just sent Kenny was $42.00, did include $200 insurance?
Stopped sending Christmas gifts to Brothers Family in Hawaii few years ago, shipping cost more than gifts, they like Cash better now anyways
Hey Kent, been down to the Party yet?


----------



## controlfreak

Who wudda thunk, machines are better and a bunch of us fools would yearn for yester year and bid up the cost of outdated tools nobody wants anymore. I love'em!


----------



## KentInOttawa

> No duty/brokerage fees if you ship as a gift The "Present" I just sent Kenny was $42.00, did include $200 insurance?
> Stopped sending Christmas gifts to Brothers Family in Hawaii few years ago, shipping cost more than gifts, they like Cash better now anyways
> Hey Kent, been down to the Party yet?
> 
> - Andre


I can relate to the cash thing; it's much cheaper to send and is always appropriate to the receivers' needs.

No, haven't been to the party but have talked to a few who've been for a visit.

<rant> Frankly, it is p#$&&!*g me off. Everyone I know from out of town is calling or messaging to ask me what my experience is, only to tell me then that I'm wrong. I've experienced nothing firsthand because it isn't in my neighbourhood. I'm 8 km from ground zero and I'm getting "educated opinions" from folks coast-to-coast. FWIW, my experience is that ALL the media about this is full of crap because everybody is selling clicks. Both bad and good behaviours are being sold and resold ad infinitum. My opinion is that we should say "Okay kids, go to your corners, ******************** down and shut up for 15 minutes" (timeout). </rant>

Worse, it's sucking my energy which is keeping me from doing any woodworking. My current project (a dog bed) is getting some pieces cut to length before I joint the edges and run a plough plane down the edges. Stay tuned for an interesting interpretation of frame and panel construction along with some simple dovetails.


----------



## Mosquito

The band is back together


----------



## bandit571

A China Jack?









At 18" long…









That be a Millers Falls #15 beside it….

China Jack needs a bolt between the iron and the chipbreaker….


----------



## bandit571

The Plane Til has been sorted through…larger planes are now in the til..









With a pair of Stanley No. 8s sitting on a shelf..









So…where did the #3s and #4 all go hide at?









Well, there IS this parking lot…









And a "Ready-use Rack" for a few jointers…

There are 3 "Extras" 









Craftsman brand….(F to R) Sargent #409, Millers Falls #14, Sargent #414….yes, Kenny…that IS a RED frog….


----------



## 33706

> shipping from the UK to the US sure does suck these days too lol
> 
> - Mosquito
> But shipping from the UK to Canada is about the same as shipping from the US to here. I tend to buy what appeals to me but will admit that the total cost including shipping and duty/brokerage fees is certainly a factor.
> 
> - Kent


That's the truth,* Kent!* Not all British shippers specify whether their listings will appear in Canada/US Ebay searches, and that's a tough one. I've known that shipping is cheaper from UK to Canada, and that's why I have owned proportionately more Brit planes than usual.


----------



## DLK

Kenny a 12 scraper plane for sale here.
I think it was you who was desperate for one.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Don but I have a #12 already. It's a 112 that I WAS desperate for but I scratched that itch yesterday ;-) Andre has an empty spot in his till and I have an empty spot in my wallet 

It didn't escape my notice Bandit… And I've considered gathering up a set of BB planes but decided against it. I don't have space for extra bench planes or I'd already be on the hunt ;-)

Till looks awesome Mos! Is that lone Stanley on the left a #2? I assume there wasn't a KK branded one in that size?


----------



## Notw

Does anyone have a Stanley no 101, that is taking up too much space in their life?


----------



## HokieKen

I might Notw. Let me check when I get home tonight and I'll let you know.


----------



## Mosquito

There's actually three Stanley's in the til, first one is indeed a #2, the #10 next to it, and the #101 above it. Unless you count the #80 as a plane too.

Then a Chaplin's improved 1210, a Fulton 15 wooden jack, and a big wooden jointer I made on the other end.
Three LN shoulder planes, #62, and #164.
The Lee Valley replica bevel square rounds out the entirety of what's actually in the til, and a lot of stuff around it lol


----------



## Mosquito

Oh, and no; there was no Keen Kutter KK2 known. They had a K2, but luckily for me, I haven't gone down that road yet


----------



## HokieKen

Ah yes, I missed the #10. I did notice the other non-KKs but the orange on the Stanley lever cap just jumped out at me. I know at one point you were contemplating making a new till. Did you change your mind and decide to keep that one?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> Does anyone have a Stanley no 101, that is taking up too much space in their life?
> 
> - Notw


I don't use the one I have Notw. I use the guy on the left.


----------



## Mosquito

> Ah yes, I missed the #10. I did notice the other non-KKs but the orange on the Stanley lever cap just jumped out at me. I know at one point you were contemplating making a new till. Did you change your mind and decide to keep that one?
> 
> - HokieKen


The new til is still in the works. I've done some POC and experimenting for it, but the plan/hope was to do that as part of a bigger tool storage solution. Whether that's a wall hung, free standing, or hybrid solution of some sort I'm not sure quite yet.


----------



## Mosquito

How do you choose which bench plane to use for a given task? Do you pick a favorite by task type, or are there other parameters that go in to it?

I was asked a related question, that got me thinking… there's a lot more that goes in to it for me than just "a #3 for smoothing, a #7 for jointing, and rarely anything else" or something like that

Reserving my answer to my own question for now


----------



## HokieKen

It's size of work and task for me Mos. I prefer my 5-1/2 size for jointing faces but sometimes I end up using 7 or 8 size if the board is longer than 4'. On the other hand, if I'm making a box or something small-ish, I'll go from rough-sawn to finished board with just my 4-1/2. In general my 5-1/2 is my go-to for flattening boards and 4-1/2 is my go to for smoothing. All the others are basically just there to fill in the gaps


----------



## bigblockyeti

I pick whichever one is sharp while contemplating (procrastinating) sharpening the best one for the job. Or I grab an electric hand plane.


----------



## Lazyman

Sharpness.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I intentionally don't have as many planes as all of you so I can't just grab the sharp one but the 5 planes I use most not including a block plane or shooting plane are purpose driven.

I have a Veritas smoother with a 52 degree blade for my AZ hardwoods, MF 4 1/2 for general smoothing, LAJ for the rough work, a #7 I don't use that often and a 112 for scraping.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> How do you choose which bench plane to use for a given task? Do you pick a favorite by task type, or are there other parameters that go in to it?
> 
> - Mosquito


Task type is the first thing that qualifies one plane over another. Such as, the need to flatten means the No. 5 comes out of the Not-Wall-Hung. It's always first in that regard. Second, and even third, choices may come after that. Sharp, as mentioned above, is one. Type of material I'm working with is another reason for reaching for something else. Like, a hardwood may mean reaching for the No. 5 1/2 for the same traversing work. Not likely, but it's happened. And if it's jacking around ;-) in a non-usual place (not at the bench) I've actually used the No. A5 with good results. Or even the S5.

I carry a No. 118 block in the tool tote for such similar reasons.

For jointing, it's ONLY the No. 8. Nothing else will do, period. Can't tell you the last time I even touched the No. 7 jointer in the bottom of the tool chest.

Smoothing goes to size. First is typically the No. 4, but with larger efforts the No. 4 1/2 is the standard. Never use a No. 3 (no particular reason, but I do have two or three in easy reach). For smaller parts or assemblies that need attention, the No. 9 sees action because I like the left-hand / overhand grip and the squirrel handle. That's also why my No. 9 3/4 squirrel tail block is the default block at the bench. Love that thing, seriously.

With that cast being the go-to planes for all jobs, it's the others that 'fill in' as warranted.

Long answer to a short question!


----------



## HokieKen

I should add that I do use my 5 size for scrubbing. And 4 size for edges on boards thinner than 4/4.

Dave reminds me about the LAJ but it's pretty much only used for end grain. And I have a little woody around #2 size with a high-pitch that gets used for smoothing figure or gnarly grain. Can't remember where I got that little thing at ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Out & about today, by meself…decided to visit the local Antique Mall here in town….turned me nose up at the 2 Handyman planes….yet, when I picked up another plane to look it over…just could NOT set it back on the self..









Price?









Plus sales tax..came to $26.81…..









A Patent date on the lever cap?









"Solid Tool Steel" 









That brass wheel Kenny likes so well…behind a RED frog…









Sole looks good, just not to Devin's Standards..









Wasn't too bad of a day…despite all the rain…Millers Falls No. 8, Type 2


----------



## HokieKen

Awesome Bandit! I'd pick up another #8 at that price to replace my Type 3 too


----------



## Mosquito

It might be a short question, but I was banking that for at least some of us there was a fairly lengthy, likely not always conscious decisions that goes in to it 

The question I was asked was "how do you know which one to use?". The answer can be textbook, sharp, some formula of work size to plane size ratio. A lot of those "rule of thumb" situations for many, and I imagine more so among professionals/for profit

But for me, it's also complicated by emotion/"feel". Sometimes, would a #4-1/2 make more sense? Probably, but then sometimes I'll reach for the #6 just because I "feel like using it" too. Spread out the love a little, because I like using the tools, and since I make no attempts to make money or have margins, or whatever, I feel no need to run as optimized as possible


----------



## Lazyman

That settles it. The next time I go visit my daughter in NYC, I am going to drive back by way of Ohio and see if I can nab a few bargains. It's like there is some sort of gravitational pull sending old planes there.


----------



## RichT

Saw this on IG. Pretty nice.


__
http://instagr.am/p/CaFbc5OLvkN/


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## DavePolaschek

Which plane? When in doubt, I used to always grab my LN 5½. That's my favorite size plane. I cambered the blade a little so it's good for flattening, but I also like it a lot for edge-jointing.

I got a transitional jack plane from my Secret Santa this year, and that's now, more often than not, the first plane I reach for, especially if I just need to flatten something in a hurry.

Beyond that, size matters. I won't grab the #7 unless I know I need the length because it's a heavy bastard. The shooting board plane only comes out if I'm shooting something. The #2 only gets grabbed when I'm smoothing something small. I've got two Stanley Global #3s set up for various things, one a smoother (with a Hock blade), and one a scrub plane. There's a #4 that came from my Secret Santa, but the tote on that is broken, and I haven't gotten around to fixing it, so that plane sits sad and lonely in the corner for now.


----------



## DevinT

*Mosquito*, ...

Choosing the plane to use for me is actually fairly mechanical at this point, however, you are correct that there is a fair amount of thought that goes into it without realization.

First-off, pick up a piece of wood. Look at it. Examine its current state. Now, form a picture in your head as to what you want to do with it (if you don't already know before picking it up). Identify the steps that are required to go from where it is to where you need (or want) to be.

What you are trying to determine at this point is:

1. Does it need roughing? (in other words, is there more than 1/16" of material to remove? if so, grab a plane with a cambered or toothed blade with a wide mouth-if you don't have one with a wide mouth, pull the frog back on a plane but make sure the blade doesn't hit the rear of the mouth as you lower the blade … attempting to plane when the iron touches the rear of the mouth may lead to a cracked mouth).

2. Does it need trying? (in other words, does it need flattening to become "tried and true"-where "tried" means putting winding sticks and straight edges to it and when it looks good, it is "true")

3. Does it need smoothing? Does it feel smooth to the touch?

Sometimes a board can be smooth but need truing (it's not flat; it has cup, twist, bow, or crook disfigurement). In which case you will need to flatten it and then re-smooth it.

Once I have determined which operation needs to be performed, I still may not have selected the plane yet.

Next, is to pick up a plane and bring it to the wood. Is the plane the proper size for the task? For example, if I'm trying to true a board, my smoother can do it, but it will be much more time consuming because I can't just mechanically wield the thing over the board to create a true surface. I will have to take a swipe, dip down and check it ("try" it) and then take a pencil, mark the low spot, and plane everywhere except where the pencil is (or alternatively you can mark the high spot and plane it, but that's less efficient because after one pass, you've lost your pencil mark indicating where the high spot is-much more efficient to mark the low spot and then plane the high spot until the pencil in the low spot starts to disappear at the same time).

Now, here's where things get tricky …

I sometimes will switch a plane in the middle of that operation (be it roughing, trying, or smoothing)-because if the operation is taking too long, I won't waste energy, I'll switch to a different plane. This is like the "we're gonna need a bigger hammer" scenario.

You need to identify quickly when what you are doing is not making forward progress on the task.

For example, if you get tear-out on the first pass, immediately flip the board to see if you were planing against the grain. Similar to that well-known situation, when you are trying, if you dip down and find that a new hollow has been created where you did not intend to create one, then your plane is either too short or you are doing something else wrong. For example, I often see beginners continue to plane after they have dove off the end of the board and slammed the toe on the bench. *NO*! Stop and reset because you've just inadvertently increased your depth by slamming the toe into the bench by diving off the piece at the end of your stroke.

I mean, yeah, making shavings is fun, and dipping down to look at a straight edge for light (or just tiling your head to peer at the gap between the plane tilted against the surface) is less fun, time-consuming, and, well, a pain in the neck-but you have to do it (unless you're just roughing of course-when it doesn't really matter). After some time of doing this, you will get better at it-so much so that you will dip down, look at the gap, "know" roughly how many swipes it will take to lessen it, perform that many swipes, then repeat. Before you know it, trying a surface will be fast and efficient. You'll feel like a super hero when you flatten after only minimal checks. You will learn tricks like intentionally planing a hollow in the center of the board with a smaller plane specifically so that you can then just go grab your beast of a joiner and mechanically flatten out the hollow without thinking.

ASIDE: Above I describe a *very* useful trick in the efficient flattening of a high spot. Convert the high spot to a low spot using a smoother then go back over it with a joiner to flatten it, then go back to the smoother to smooth it.

There is no one "smoothing" plane
Nor one "joiner" plane
Nor one "try" plane

etc. All planes can be used for all tasks.

Got a 72 inch board? Stanley No 7 can be used as a smoother and a big monster 36" woodie can be used for trying.

Got a 9" board? Stanley No 4 can be used to make it tried and true (using the "smoother" as a "try" plane).

There really aren't any rules as to which plane can be used for which task with very few exceptions (in the realm of bench planes-which are planes that have top escapements versus side escapements).

Any plane that is to be used for roughing would benefit from a blade that has a 1/16" or greater camber, protruding out of a huge mouth (1/8" or larger).

Any plane that is to be used for trying needs to be at *bare minimum* 1/3rd the length of the surface to flatten.

ASIDE: Be real careful with that "bare minimum"-technically speaking, the process of flattening a board requires you to traverse diagonally, that means that in reality you should never expect to be able to mechanically flatten a board that has a hypotenuse that is greater than 3x the length of your plane-not the length of the board but the length of the hypotenuse).

Any plane that is to be used for smoothing needs to have a tight mouth (less than 1/16"), depending on the wood.

Now, you ask about choosing a plane for a task, and I've highlighted a few tasks (3: rough, try/join, smooth; there are others), and I explain that sometimes I switch planes in mid-task, but I have not yet touched on cross-purpose planing.

Say you've tried the surface (held a straight edge up to it and used winding/winking sticks) and determined you can move straight to smoothing because whatever light that is shining through or whatever twist you observed is minimal. So you start planing, but you find that your initial assessment was wrong for whatever reason (the wood is harder than expected; your tool is duller than you thought; whatever)-the process is taking a lot longer than anticipated. I won't necessarily switch to a different task, but I will incorporate a few swipes here and there with a different plane (one configured to take a deeper, perhaps rougher, cut) while still continuing the effort to smooth. This prevents me from changing the depth setting on my smoother which is already dialed-in, laterally adjusted, and locked-down.

ASIDE: If you have a screw cap instead of a lever cap, loosen the screw slightly when adjusting the lat, and then lock it down again. I've had issues where planing with a loose screw can lead to the blade shifting … yes, even on a Veritas with blade set-screws; nothing more annoying than getting dialed-in and then have to re-dial).

So, I guess to answer your question …

You'll *rarely* ever see me with just one plane out at a time. In-fact, just about the *only* time that I *EVER* have *JUST* one plane out, is when I'm working-on, test-driving, or honing that one plane (and the wood doesn't matter-though, I *will* pick a wood that needs the task at-hand or is challenging for the plane if I am testing it).

Honestly, from experience, the amount of effort it takes to flatten a board with a smoother is so comical, if there is even the slightest hint of needing to flatten it, I just go straight to the No 8. It makes getting a flat surface stupidly easy-no pencil marks, no dipping down, no tilting my head, just mechanical processing without thinking and in a matter of a couple minutes, usually it's flat the first time I check.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The question I was asked was "how do you know which one to use?"

Oh, now that's a much different question!

Christopher Schwarz gets the credit there. And I mean all of it. When he was at Pop Wood -actually, publishing the short-lived Woodworking magazine- he blogged every day and talked endlessly about bench planes. His Coarse - Medium - Fine approach was it for me, and still is.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, I agree Smitty, that's the regiment I follow as well for a question that specific. That was just the question that lead me to thinking about the one I posted originally  It got me thinking about it.


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## HokieKen

I've never seen that article. I'll give it a read later  It won't cost me any money will it? l have sizes 2-8 and a small army of blocks. Surely he can't make me buy anything else…


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## rad457

Printed that out to read normally I know which one I use the least, an now never tend to use #4 and under the most, usually small projects, did set up a stable of #5 as multi purpose jacks along side the new LAJ. Block planes get majority of the use, with the Veritas apron plane slowly pushing the LN 102 aside


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> I ve never seen that article. I ll give it a read later  It won t cost me any money will it?
> 
> - HokieKen


Actually, it's from his pre-Anarchist Toolchest days. So it's kind of funny, he has a number of tools in the article that he loves but has since gotten rid of.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> How do you choose which bench plane to use for a given task? Do you pick a favorite by task type, or are there other parameters that go in to it?
> 
> - Mosquito


For me, there's far less science involved than I would like. I'll +1 on the coarse, medium, fine approach, but will sometimes also revert to Paul Sellers approach and just use a #4. I have enough #4s that there are always some that are sharp, so I generally reach for one of them.

I select which specific plane to use based upon its blade's camber and how deep it is set to cut. With my cognitive issues, I find that fighting with the play in a plane's depth adjuster too much will just suck the pleasure out of the task at hand, so I generally have several planes within reach, set course, medium and fine. Small adjustments within the range aren't a problem for me. Rarely, I'll switch to a #5 for the fine setting. I also have a few#3s, but they all feel too light to me. It's like they don't want to cut because they aren't heavy enough.

I'll use my 4 1/2 for cross-grain stuff and scrubbing because it has a nice weight and feel to it. Rarely, I'll use a 5 1/4 for this, too. I'll use a #6 or #7 for jointing depending upon the length of the work. I deal mostly with smaller pieces, so I tend to use the smallest plane that will achieve the results. The 6 & 7 are always set up with straight blades and a shallow cut. I may use them for a pass or two to quickly locate where to take more off, but I'll use a #4 for that because they're lighter.

I'll generally use a 60 1/2 or a #4 for end grain work. A block plane is my normal goto plane for easing edges.


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## ac0rn

Also +1 on the course, medium, fine approach. I do try to maintain sharpness with all the edge tools (not always successful). Today my 1 inch chisel found what appears the remains of an old thumbtack/brad, still sharp, but a nick dead center.


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## bandit571

I've always sized the plane to the size of the work being done….

Lets see, should I reach for the #3 or the #4…..which one is the sharpest…..which one is closer to my hand…that sort of thing. Bigger planes? Depends on how tired my arms are…do I want the jacks or the 8s….

All depends on what the task is…and what size the boards are…Don't need to use a Stanley No. 8..when all I'm trying to do is joint an edge that is 1/2" across..by 12" long…

But, IF I need to slap 3 boards face to face to face, to joint all three edges at once for a panel glue up, that is 3-4' long….yeah, THEN the No. 8 is a-coming for a visit…..BTDT…needed the Icy Hot afterwards…


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## Sylvain

I like the "essential tool" approach of Paul Sellers:

#4
router plane
plough plane 
rebate plane
spokeshave
a 57 cm long wooden jointer
cabinet scraper.

I have a cheap plane I had bought 35 years ago when I knew nothing; it looks like a Stanley SB3 except it is in sheet metal. I use it to scrap old finish and scrub recycled wood.

I recently received, as a gift, a rehabbed #4 I have only tested until now. It weights 200g less than the #4 I have used until now. Should be less tiring.

I have a few wooden planes I have never used until now.
On this side of the pond, one will practically only see wooden planes on the flea markets.

Each added tool needs to be mastered.


----------



## HokieKen

> I ve never seen that article. I ll give it a read later  It won t cost me any money will it?
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> Actually, it's from his pre-Anarchist Toolchest days. So it's kind of funny, he has a number of tools in the article that he loves but has since gotten rid of.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Ain't that the truth? "... I use mine as little as possible now that I own a powered jointer and planer." Did that utterance flow from the ink of the Schwarz's quill?!

Just kidding ;-) I've read a lot of his stuff over the years including in his "hybrid" phase. I have a great deal of respect for his expertise and methods and think he is an excellent and entertaining communicator. Not sure how I haven't seen that article before but it's a good primer. I think all hand tool users probably work under the coarse-medium-fine methodology whether we take the time to put it into those words or not.

There's no denying the quality of Schwarz's work. Same for Sellers. Though I can't really come around to the "bare bones" approach. I don't particularly even like a #4 sized plane and the thought of taking a board from rough sawn to finished using it and only it makes me want to plug my jointer and planer in. Don't get me wrong, Paul can, without a doubt, take a rough board to a finished board with that single tool in less than half the time it would take me with 3 different hand planes and have a better result. And I feel no shame in admitting it ;-) But he could probably do it 8X faster and 10X better if I also were constrained to use only that single plane….

On the other hand, I have become so fond of my 4-1/2 sized plane that I do often take small boards from rough to finished with only it. I could probably do so more expediently with another plane or two in the mix but not by a lot. It's just one of those tools that makes me feel warm and fuzzy when it's in my hands 

I guess my point is simply, there are a lot of considerations in woodworking in general but also in hand planes specifically. Are you under time constraints (business) or is it for fun (hobby)? Do you like tools for the tools' sake or do you only care about what they ultimately accomplish? (Anyone reading this thread is most likely inclined to the former ;-p) For a new woodworker or new galoot-convert, I'd suggest they read Schwarz's article and start there. But eventually, I think we all develop our own method for a variety of reasons. For myself, it comes down to getting the result I want and enjoying the process. If I need it done adquately and quickly, you'll most likely hear a lot of noise coming from my shop 'cause the planer is running ;-)


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## controlfreak

I like to test my ability to work wood using hand tools. It makes my small shop feel bigger. I like not needing any protective gear. I find my self reaching for the No. 7 for jointing, the No. 5 for flattening and the No. 4 for smoothing. Every once in a while I will get my Veritas LAJ to see how it feels but use it mostly for shooting.


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## KelleyCrafts

> I like to test my ability to work wood using hand tools. It makes my small shop feel bigger.
> 
> - controlfreak


Well said! I can relate to this completely.


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## KentInOttawa

Thanks for sparking the discussion, Mos. I've enjoyed reading where we are similar and where we differ in our approaches. I wonder how and how many of us will change our Modus Operandi over the next year or ten?


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## Mosquito

No problem, it's what I was anticipating and hoping for  Been a while since we've had that sort of dive in to our shop processes. It's nothing without everyone else's involvement though


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## Sylvain

It is not that Paul Sellers says one has to limit oneself to the essential tools, the message is that you don't have to spend a lot of money to enjoy/do/start woodworking.

Recently, Paul Sellers has shown a #78 (rebate plane) with a crowned iron used as a scrub plane; the #78 has, in my view, three qualities for this usage: narrow blade, some mass and an affordable price.

I am contemplating buying a second iron for mine.


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## HokieKen

I agree Sylvain. I was really just referring to the way he uses a #4 plane almost exclusively


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## bandit571

For a scrub plane…I use a Great Neck Corsair C-5 Jack plane…cost me $6..has a huge mouth, has an 8" camber to the iron….shavings are usually about the thickness of a Dime. Mean, FAST, and wood will not talk back to it…


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## Mosquito

I used to use a #5 with a good camber, but in the last set of planes I got back included a Keen Kutter K240 (Stanley 40), that I sharpened beyond what's reasonable for a scrub plane, and will definitely be using that going forward


----------



## Mosquito

I will say, whether you like Sellers or not, I have respect that he puts out a message of it's possible to have a low barrier to entry in to woodworking, and actually follows it. It's not "You don't need all these fancy tools, but I'm going to use them". He has a lot of tools, and a good number of nice tools. But he uses mundane and unremarkable tools when he presents, and I think that's pretty cool.

It's one thing for someone to get up there and preach about "you only need these few tools, so no excuse not to start", but then have $5000 between 10 "basic" tools and try to encourage people it's not so hard


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I remember watching a masterclass of his at one point and he used a bandsaw in that video. Personally I like sellers. I read most of his blog posts and I don't really care if he pulls out the bandsaw to assist him with something.

I think he draws A LOT of people into hand tool work which ultimately is a good thing. So I'm good with him regardless.


----------



## bandit571

Scrub Jack's bevel…









Frog…yes, it was made with just a single bolt..and a large rib to hold it still..









Normal shavings…









Normal opening..









For when things get "rough", who ya gonna call?


----------



## RWE

My scrubs:

Started with a modified Stanley #4, opened the mouth a bit and put good chamber on the iron.

Speaking of Paul Sellers, the 190 on the right had the iron chambered based on one of presentations (poor man's scrub plane I guess) and it was okay, but the mouth was not open enough.

Then I stumbled over the horned wooden Austrian scrub and it works well.

Last and not least, actually the best by a country mile is the #40 (courtesy of Dr. Surftrat sp.).










Note how large the mouth opening is for the Austrian horned scrub and the #40.










At this point, I am going to put the 190 back to square. I primarily use the 40 and I just like looking at the Austrian. It is pretty. I use the #4 on occasion.


----------



## controlfreak

I saw the Band saw video but my jaw dropped when I heard him say he prepared some pieces on "the table saw". I totally get what Paul Sellers is doing and I enjoy and subscribe to it (pay him money). I have an income now where I can buy, within reason, any tool I want but this wasn't always the case. Back when I was in school it was all about power tools and mom and dad were not eager to fund a hobby for a son with a short attention span. If I could have only cought the hand tool bug back then. On one hand planes and saws would have been dirt cheap, on the other there were no such things as computers or eBay. South Carolina isn't a great place to find old hand tools like New England or the upper mid west, looking at you Bandit. I don't know if it is that people just considered them junk and threw them out or if high humidity took them out.


----------



## corelz125

I know there's not many Ohio plane guys in here. Maybe Mos or Bandit are more familiar with Ohio planes. Recently got this Ohio 08 and when I took off the frog I found this. This is a new one for me. ANyone else ever come across this?


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## bandit571

I have an 0-7 in the shop….however, mine has a different base for the frog…


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## corelz125

Your 07 has the maroon Jappaning Bandit?


----------



## Mosquito

Can't say that I have, my Keen Kutters are either 3 or 4 pad frog bases, depending on the width (4-1/2, 5-1/2, 6, 7, 8 all have 4 pad, the rest are 3). None of mine have solid


----------



## bandit571

No, black. 









Frog..









And, where it sits…









And..them holes are very shallow, BTW..and the bolts are quite short…









And a look at the "bow"....merely has an "0 7".....and that be a Stanley No.8c sitting behind it…


----------



## Mosquito

Working on a new storage board to add on the adjustable plane til. It will replace the shelf with the LN 164 and 62 on it now, and will also take up some of the space the LN large and medium shoulder planes are occupying.

Will have the #39s, mini router, 98, 99, Walke-Moore router and set of Lee Valley irons, and the 3 shoulder planes. Not sure if there will be anything else included, but there is a little space under the router irons if you dare risk you knuckles lol










And just for reference, this is the current state of the til


----------



## Sylvain

> Then I stumbled over the horned wooden Austrian scrub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE


It looks like the metal sole on the wooden plane was a later add-on.


----------



## Sylvain

> At this point, I am going to put the 190 back to square. I primarily use the 40 .
> - RWE


I understand if you have a 40 you don't need anymore to use the 190 as a scrub . Does the 40 perform better than the 190 did ?


----------



## Peteybadboy

Mos

Love your plane till! I plan to use your idea of the T track. That makes a lot of sense to me.

Thanks for posting that


----------



## Mosquito

No problem Petey, if you find it useful, I posted a blog entry way back when I made it

The configuration has changed a few times since then, but not drastically. A little while back there was a discussion about it here, sometime last year. Not sure if I'd do it this way again or not. The t-track dividers at 3/4" width take up a bit of space for just a divider, but I guess that's the price for the flexibility.

It wasn't cheap 9 years ago, I'm not sure I'd want to know what it would cost now lol


----------



## RWE

> Then I stumbled over the horned wooden Austrian scrub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE
> 
> It looks like the metal sole on the wooden plane was a later add-on.
> 
> - Sylvain


I don't think it was an add-on, but I have no way of knowing. The fit, the screws used to hold it place, all seem to suggest it was built and sold with that bottom. If it were manufactured later in time, after the turn of the century, say post WWI I would not be surprised about it. I think that style of horned plane is still made, so it could be post WWII as well. It makes sense that it was manufactured as a scrub and with a metal plate it would suited for rough work.

Paul Sellers had a blog on scrub planes. In essence, there used to be no scrub planes, just worn out wooden planes that had the bottoms worn down so that the mouth was so large it would no longer make fine shavings. It then got demoted to become a scrub. When metal planes took over, the 40 was manufactured to deal with that function.

So I figure some Austrian company made this with the plate knowing that it would have a longer working life.

When I first acquired the plane a couple of years ago, we had this discussion. I need some German or Austrian Lumberjock to pipe in and tell us if what the history is over there for this fellow.


----------



## corelz125

Bandit you have the tapered iron?


----------



## RWE

> At this point, I am going to put the 190 back to square. I primarily use the 40 .
> - RWE
> 
> I understand if you have a 40 you don t need anymore to use the 190 as a scrub . Does the 40 perform better than the 190 did ?
> 
> - Sylvain


The 40 is the best thing going to me. The Austrian was good, better than anything I had in the arsenal. The 4 was okay, but it is wide compared to the 40 and and the Austrian. I think the narrow width is what makes the 40 and the wide mouth, heavy iron.

I am pre-processing air dried band sawn lumber to get it ready for a power jointer and then planer. I do the Chris Swaztz 45 degree both ways from the side , then length ways and knock off the high sides or cup depending on the attack plan. The 40 seems best suited of this work. I pull in the #4 on the length passes, once the board is coming into a straight flat shape.

You eat up a lot of wood trying to take a board in rough shape, straight to the jointer because it will simply chew up a lot of unnecessary wood as it evens up one end and then tries to get the other end to conform. Getting it relatively flat to start with a scrub is much more effective and more fun.

I probably put too much camber on the 190 iron and the mouth just was not big enough to be useful for a scrub function. If I had reduced the camber a bit, it may have been okay. But it is superceded now and I will retire it from scrub duty.

If I where to start over, I would have picked a number 3 to convert to a scrub and not a #4. Open the mouth and I think the narrower width would make it hog out chips better. Heft is not a great benefit, just a lot of repetition of strokes.


----------



## Sylvain

Wooden planes are still common on this side of the pond (or should I say this side of the Channel?)
https://ecemmerich.de/en/portfolio/planes/ (hornbeam sole)
https://www.ulmia.de/ulmia-en/ (beech or lignum vitae sole)
https://www.pinie.cz/en/wooden-planes/ (hornbeam sole)
...?
no metal sole on them.

Although I have found this https://www.handplane.com/images/Catalogs/Joh-Weiss-And-Sohn-1909-Catalog/Joh.WeissAndSohn1909Catalog1-Big.jpg

where the scrub plane can be had with
pockholzsohle (poplar sole) or
eisensohle (iron sole); so it might be one of those.


----------



## Sylvain

> If I where to start over, I would have picked a number 3 to convert to a scrub and not a #4. Open the mouth and I think the narrower width would make it hog out chips better. Heft is not a great benefit, just a lot of repetition of strokes.
> - RWE


It is feasible to use a narrower iron in he #4.


----------



## bandit571

> Bandit you have the tapered iron?
> 
> - corelz125


Not in the 0-7. It came with a "Globe" logo. Slot in the iron was narrower than a Stanley. When I went to remove the BIG curved length it had…..it snapped.

I do have an 035, with the tapered iron, though.


----------



## bandit571

Harbor Freight still sells that Windsor #33…..that you can grind a 3" radius camber to the iron. Turns it into a #3 sized VERY HUNGRY Scrub plane….right now in the store, they are around $15…..and, they do have a BIG mouth.


----------



## RWE

> Wooden planes are still common on this side of the pond (or should I say this side of the Channel?)
> https://ecemmerich.de/en/portfolio/planes/ (hornbeam sole)
> https://www.ulmia.de/ulmia-en/ (beech or lignum vitae sole)
> https://www.pinie.cz/en/wooden-planes/ (hornbeam sole)
> ...?
> no metal sole on them.
> 
> Although I have found this https://www.handplane.com/images/Catalogs/Joh-Weiss-And-Sohn-1909-Catalog/Joh.WeissAndSohn1909Catalog1-Big.jpg
> 
> where the scrub plane can be had with
> pockholzsohle (poplar sole) or
> eisensohle (iron sole); so it might be one of those.
> 
> - Sylvain


Okay. I have reexamined the sole. I don't work with metal. I am not sure how common the plate material would be. The width of the plane works out so that a row of the holes are bisected on both sides.

However the cutout around the mouth does look a little less than precise. 









The screws are placed in a good pattern, countersunk into the plate. So I guess if it was done by a fellow after purchase, he had some decent skills.

*I suggest that we buy a bunch of horned planes, say a 100 or so and send them up to Kenny and he can put plates on them. LOL.*


----------



## notearoutallowed

Recently came into ownership of a Stanley 45. Tried to clean off the rust off some of the exposed metal, but the rust remover I have turned what little nickel plating the 45 had left pink. Anyone have any recommendations on what I can use to reverse the color change I've experienced?


----------



## bandit571

Between the Nickel plating and the iron..there is a layer of Copper….which is more than likely starting to show through…..


----------



## HokieKen

Try wire brushing the rust away. It'll also take a lot of the nickel off but whatever flakes off is barely hanging on anyway.


----------



## HokieKen

Seems like that perforated plate would create a lot of friction RWE? If I was looking to add a plate to a wood sole, I'd just epoxy it.


----------



## Sylvain

> I am pre-processing air dried band sawn lumber to get it ready for a power jointer and then planer. I do the Chris Swaztz 45 degree both ways from the side , then length ways and knock off the high sides or cup depending on the attack plan. The 40 seems best suited of this work. I pull in the #4 on the length passes, once the board is coming in [...]
> 
> - RWE


45 degree both ways[...] then length ways

Without the length way, one could obtain a "ruled surface"; e.g. a paraboloid.
see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hyp-paraboloid-ip.svg
As one can see this paraboloid is generated by straight lines.


----------



## Sylvain

> Seems like that perforated plate would create a lot of friction RWE? If I was looking to add a plate to a wood sole, I'd just epoxy it.
> 
> - HokieKen


1. I don't thing it is important on a scrub plane.
2. Mirror finished surfaces are sticking. Wasn't it for this reason that Stanley made corrugated soles?
3. I am contemplating hand scrapping soles. It would create little pools for oil.
google "Hand Scraping: the Last Bastion for the Blacksmith's Art in a CNC World"


----------



## HokieKen

My thinking is just that the holes would catch on the wood causing it to be harder to push the plane. Corrugations run longitudinal on the plane to prevent that. If the the corrugations ran across the sole rather than along it, I doubt they would work so well ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

And hand scraping is a dying art that I hope I get the chance to learn one day. I scrape my frogs to the seating areas when I have a poor fit. But what I do is only "scraping" in the broadest of terms.


----------



## DevinT

> Then I stumbled over the horned wooden Austrian scrub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE
> 
> It looks like the metal sole on the wooden plane was a later add-on.
> 
> - Sylvain
> 
> I don t think it was an add-on, but I have no way of knowing. The fit, the screws used to hold it place, all seem to suggest it was built and sold with that bottom. If it were manufactured later in time, after the turn of the century, say post WWI I would not be surprised about it. I think that style of horned plane is still made, so it could be post WWII as well. It makes sense that it was manufactured as a scrub and with a metal plate it would suited for rough work.
> 
> Paul Sellers had a blog on scrub planes. In essence, there used to be no scrub planes, just worn out wooden planes that had the bottoms worn down so that the mouth was so large it would no longer make fine shavings. It then got demoted to become a scrub. When metal planes took over, the 40 was manufactured to deal with that function.
> 
> So I figure some Austrian company made this with the plate knowing that it would have a longer working life.
> 
> When I first acquired the plane a couple of years ago, we had this discussion. I need some German or Austrian Lumberjock to pipe in and tell us if what the history is over there for this fellow.
> 
> - RWE


Paul Sellers May know a lot but he doesn't know what he is talking about when he says there were no scrub planes. That is a farcical comment and flies in the face of the historical plane called a Schropphobel or Schrupphubel - the German inspiration for the American and English scrub plane, first made in 1700. Initially, all scrub planes were imported and sold as German planes. The Sandusky Tool company as well as Hammacher Schlemmer sold them in their 1896 catalogue under the name of "Horn Shrup" planes (an anglicization of Schropphobel or Schrupphobel). They were also called Bismarck planes in England and after WWI called Horned Scrub planes by the Columbia Tool Co.

Similar, the Germans also had a plane called a Gertschaaf (whale or scroll plane).

In the Netherlands, the D Stolp catalogue listed a plane nearly identical to the Schropphobel named the Blockschaaf met horn, schrobber in 1915.

France 1945 made a plane inspired by the schropphobel for scrubbing named the Riflard.

The Japanese has a Herashi-Kanna for scrubbing as well as the Ara-Shiko.

Dear Paul needs to read more and talk less.


----------



## RWE

> I am pre-processing air dried band sawn lumber to get it ready for a power jointer and then planer. I do the Chris Swaztz 45 degree both ways from the side , then length ways and knock off the high sides or cup depending on the attack plan. The 40 seems best suited of this work. I pull in the #4 on the length passes, once the board is coming in [...]
> 
> - RWE
> 
> 45 degree both ways[...] then length ways
> 
> Without the length way, one could obtain a "ruled surface"; e.g. a paraboloid.
> see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hyp-paraboloid-ip.svg
> As one can see this paraboloid is generated by straight lines.
> 
> - Sylvain


What I tried to describe is here in this YouTube video by Schwartz.

What is different is that the board he starts with with his Jack plane is more like what I am trying to get to. Air dried, bandsawn lumber is typically much more cupped and twisted. My starting point is a lot rougher. So instead of doing straight across the width, I go 45 degrees on one pass then go back in the other direction 45 degrees, maybe more like 35 degrees. Then I go to length passes. However, my goal is to get it ready for power, not to fully flatten it. So I would stop at the point where he is picking up.

I will use winding sticks and deal with twist if needed. Then go to the power.

Also, I don't generally have long stock. I have a small shop, make boxes, small furniture. So anything lengthy is usually halved or such. That shorter stock is easier to deal with as far as twist.

If I reincarnate and get my tools back for my new younger self, I might do planes and S4S or whatever it is called, but since I have limited time here on earth, I go with the power tools to flatten stock.

You completely lost me on the paraboloid thing, but methinks you are pulling my paraboloid.


----------



## RWE

> My thinking is just that the holes would catch on the wood causing it to be harder to push the plane. Corrugations run longitudinal on the plane to prevent that. If the the corrugations ran across the sole rather than along it, I doubt they would work so well ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Well I am just a brute of a man. LOL. The plane glides well. You can see by the pictures that I tried to flatten the sole and polish it a bit, but gave up. Hogging off wood does not require the precision of a fine smoother.

It is just a pretty little plane, highly ergonomic and the last thing I would do is to remove the plate, since it makes the fellow somewhat unique.


----------



## HokieKen

Good RWE. It was just an instinct. I guess if you think about the perforated diamond plates, it's the same thing. As long as there are no burrs on the holes, it should glide.

I'm sure you're a brute of a man too though ;-)


----------



## DevinT

The unique sole should excel with a toothed iron which may conceivably create more dust which the holes would make the sole immune-to


----------



## RWE

> Paul Sellers May know a lot but he doesn't know what he is talking about when he says there were no scrub planes. That is a farcical comment and flies in the face of the historical plane called a Schropphobel or Schrupphubel - the German inspiration for the American and English scrub plane, first made in 1700. Initially, all scrub planes were imported and sold as German planes. The Sandusky Tool company as well as Hammacher Schlemmer sold them in their 1896 catalogue under the name of "Horn Shrup" planes (an anglicization of Schropphobel or Schrupphobel). They were also called Bismarck planes in England and after WWI called Horned Scrub planes by the Columbia Tool Co.
> 
> Similar, the Germans also had a plane called a Gertschaaf (whale or scroll plane).
> 
> In the Netherlands, the D Stolp catalogue listed a plane nearly identical to the Schropphobel named the Blockschaaf met horn, schrobber in 1915.
> 
> France 1945 made a plane inspired by the schropphobel for scrubbing named the Riflard.
> 
> The Japanese has a Herashi-Kanna for scrubbing as well as the Ara-Shiko.
> 
> Dear Paul needs to read more and talk less.
> 
> - DevinT


In defense of Paul Sellers, he may have been talking about tradesmen in England and not across the continent. I like hearing him talk. I think it may be a generational thing, but I have great respect for Sellers and I don't get the idea that he is too talkative that I see sometimes in comments.

I am working from memory, I think it was the blog on converting a 78 or a plane like the 190 to a scrub that he made those comments on scrub planes.

I am more familiar with the American and English traditions.


----------



## Sylvain

> What I tried to describe is here in this YouTube video [...]by Schwartz.
> 
> I will use winding sticks and deal with twist if needed. Then go to the power.
> 
> You completely lost me on the paraboloid thing, but methinks you are pulling my paraboloid.
> - RWE


My comment was in no way a critique.
I just wanted to point out that one has to plane in three different directions (as you do) to obtain a flat surface.


----------



## bandit571

Schwarz was more concerned about promoting HIS No. 5 as THE foremost plane…and even dissed the Stanley No. 40

While watching the videos I used to build that Desktop Organizer..Sellers had a Stanley No. set up as a Scrub, and used it to roughly get an edge to shape…he even called it his scrub plane. Then the "other" No. 4 came out as a smoother.

As for that metal soled plane….IF you wax that sole? All them holes will fill with wax….Maybe a swipe with the "Rag-in-a-can" instead?


----------



## HokieKen

I no longer have a dedicated scrub. I just never used it. If I have to scrub much I either set my 9 or 14 (4 or 5) for a little heavier cut. Or I pull out my jointer or set up my jointing jig for my planer. Lots of ways to skin that cat


----------



## RWE

> As for that metal soled plane….IF you wax that sole? All them holes will fill with wax….Maybe a swipe with the "Rag-in-a-can" instead?
> 
> - bandit571


Good idea Bandit. I actually have the rag in a can, but it seems to require an awful lot of 3 in 1 oil.

I am not a collector, will never admit to that. However, the horned Austrian is mostly admired at this point, so it is all academic about the sole being aftermarket or ineffective. I think Hokie's comment about the holes on Diamond plates makes sense.

Like the Lord of the Rings, one "scrub plane" to rule them all. The 40 was forged in Mordor and rules them all.


----------



## ac0rn

The 40 scrub works well for me. It really came in handy at the Playhouse. I had several areas of sub-flooring that needed to be leveled out prepping for oak floors, and the 40 made short work of it. The new underlayment is now all flat.
Years back I did convert a 5 1/4 to a scrub and it worked well. That plane now resides with my younger brother.


----------



## RWE

> I no longer have a dedicated scrub. I just never used it. If I have to scrub much I either set my 9 or 14 (4 or 5) for a little heavier cut. Or I pull out my jointer or set up my jointing jig for my planer. Lots of ways to skin that cat
> 
> - HokieKen


About 8 or 9 years ago, I was all power tools. Then I bought a Disston D-8 at an Antique Shop. I got it because I had fond memories as a child sawing with one. I met my Tree Surgeon friend and started accumulating the band saw lumber. That lead to need for a plane to pre-process the lumber.

For 3 or 4 years, all I did was buy a new tool, refurb it and then go out an hunt for more. Pure addiction.

30 plus handsaws, all sharpened and set, 30 plus planes, 3 combination planes, around 40 or more chisels, calipers, tammel points etc. etc. Now I am finally back to some woodworking.

Dug up the Incra I-box and made 25 box-jointed pencil boxes in the last couple of weeks. Using the shooting board resulted in a much more accurate product. So for me, hybrid is the name of the game.

Before I kick the bucket, I am going to do a fine handcut dovetailed box. I have done some drawers and other boxes, but that is the current goal.

It all begins with the scrub plane.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I am working from memory, I think it was the blog on converting a 78 or a plane like the 190 to a scrub that he made those comments on scrub planes.
> 
> - RWE


As Bandit mentions, Paul also converted a #4 for use as a scrub and he mentioned the no scrubs thing in that video, too. Since I haven't met anyone who is perfect yet, I'm more than willing to give him a pass for passing along a small bit of info that is basically irrelevant to creating a scrub plane from another plane.

On that subject, it is often overlooked or at least brushed past, especially for the 78s with missing fences and depth stops, that you can start with a basically worthless or low-quality plane and create a completely functional scrub plane.


----------



## controlfreak

I am thinking, without going back through a volume of video, Paul Sellers was commenting on was what the plane is referred to as. I think it was more by trade than by regions. It seems like I recall jointers called it a fore plane and carpenters used the term scrub plane. The function of each was very similar. Please don't beat me up if I am all wrong here and may even be backward because this is taken from bits and pieces of memory and that's getting worse by the year.


----------



## RWE

> I am working from memory, I think it was the blog on converting a 78 or a plane like the 190 to a scrub that he made those comments on scrub planes.
> 
> - RWE
> As Bandit mentions, Paul also converted a #4 for use as a scrub and he mentioned the no scrubs thing in that video, too. Since I haven t met anyone who is perfect yet, I m more than willing to give him a pass for passing along a small bit of info that is basically irrelevant to creating a scrub plane from another plane.
> 
> On that subject, it is often overlooked or at least brushed past, especially for the 78s with missing fences and depth stops, that you can start with a basically worthless or low-quality plane and create a completely functional scrub plane.
> 
> - Kent


Like Robert Johnson, I met the devil at the Crossroads. I made a deal that I would only use vintage handtools, no longer buy on Ebay (I sin occasionally, just bought an iron for the 1080). So I can't buy a Harbor Freight tool or the Devil will terminate me. I did buy one of those modern and cheap chamfer planes that was posted about here, a Chinese product.

I work with home grown air dried wood, no purchases allowed. Did sin and got some Mahogany for the Sellers Organizer box project.

No Lie Neilson, no Veritas, must be old and pure. Modern is bad.

Actually that is all garbage and a sensible fellow would get whatever tool worked best. I guess I am not sensible. The history is highly important. The devil will have his due.

It is kind of like which version of Crossroads do you like, Eric Clapton and Cream or Robert Johnson. In my wayward youth, I liked Cream. Now I recognize the purity in what Robert Johnson did. Old tools rule.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Schwarz was more concerned about promoting HIS No. 5 as THE foremost plane…and even dissed the Stanley No. 40
> 
> - bandit571


That's nonsense. Schwarz doesn't sell No. 5 planes, you know that. Doesn't need me as a defender, nor does Sellers, but I'm not sure why folks feel the need to slight either of them.

Cite either as influences, fine. Even towards the negative, as Schwarz so often says: Disobey me. But to say he's promoting a product (No. 5) that he doesn't sell is just silly. He bases his love of the foreplane on the written (European) record of 11" planes being ideally suited to do rough work. I'm sure you meant something else, Bandit, when you emphasized "HIS".


----------



## KentInOttawa

I often find what I'm looking for buried in a lot, so I'll buy the entire lot. That leaves with some non-collectable and lower-end tools that I still have a hard time parting with, so I sharpen them and play with them and learn what I can from them. I just haven't learned how to get rid of them as fast as I acquire them, although I have donated some of them to some beginner woodworkers. These gifts were only after demonstrating the performance and differences with some of my keepers on some scrap lumber.


----------



## Mosquito

I have that same problem Kent

Smitty, I'm with you. I think at this point Schwarz is pretty well jaded by all the negativity he gets all over, that he seems to mostly poke fun at it or block it out.

I like both Schwarz and Sellers, but have my own mind and merely draw inspiration from others' knowledge. I'm all for my routines, but I'm also willing to try new things just to see. You never know when you try something you think is stupid, only to find out you like it more than what you're used to.


----------



## bandit571

The Woodwright's Shop, Hand Plane essentials, with Chris Schwarz….

Might be worth the watching….


----------



## bandit571

In regards to the Millers Falls I "picked" the other day….face of the frog still has it's factory grind. Blade does not look like it was ever re-sharpened. All the "square" corners…be careful, they are quite sharp.

Lever cap has a Patent date on the front…..there is also a Patent Applied for under the lever cap's front end. Bolts for the frog are domed. Brass nuts for the handles…Adjuster wheel is Brass. Handles look more like Rosewood, grain wise…Chipbreaker is Nickel plated. Iron is a lot thicker than a Stanley iron..

A Type 2, but…which one?


----------



## Mosquito

Got the storage board done tonight and on to the plane till. Pretty happy with it, not sure if I'll keep the spoke shave there, more just something to fill the space. May eventually find something else to go there.










Now have some other space to play with too, just below it



















There's just something particularly pleasing about this part of my shop to me, so I'm happy to be making some updates


----------



## controlfreak

Mos, I love looking at the display of planes there! Lots of ideas to to steal but so little time to do it.


----------



## donwilwol

I've been contemplating a lot of this discussion lately and actually missed the last 66 comments! Coming out shortly.










.


----------



## DLK

I picked up this record 05 handplane in Southport, N.C. yesterday for $65, because I did not have a record. According to http://www.record-planes.com/ I think it is late 1940s or early 1950s. And I think the price was fair but not a bargain. Why is it painted black and not blue? Was it re-painted, if so they did an excellent job. Knob and tote appear to be stained beech.


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## RWE

I had a blue Record #5 from the 60's-70's and really liked it. I think it went to my timber framing friend. The quality was very good.

That is a a fine looking plane.


----------



## corelz125

Nice set up Mos. What are the papers you have framed right above the planes?


----------



## HokieKen

Those are some of my wiser forum posts that he printed and hung up for inspiration Corelz.


----------



## RichT

> Those are some of my wiser forum posts that he printed and hung up for inspiration Corelz.
> 
> - HokieKen


I wallpapered my entire living room with them and had a ream left over.


----------



## corelz125

They have the KK logo if it was MF then you might of had a shot Kenny.


----------



## HokieKen

KK = King Kenny


----------



## HokieKen

Me too Rich. My wife loves it ;-)


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> KK = Kocky Kenny
> 
> - HokieKen


Fixed that buddy.


----------



## DevinT

> Me too Rich. My wife loves it ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Initially read as:

"I have too much money. Wife loves it."


----------



## corelz125

On some roll this morning Kenny must of had a good Saturday night


----------



## corelz125

Mos there's a K2 listed and 2 KingKenny tool cabinets on eBay now.


----------



## Mosquito

hahahaha that's some good discussion to come back to 

They're all various Keen Kutter and one EC Simmons advertisements or posters. All but one of the framed ones (the bottom right one I printed), came from a regular seller at my regional MWTCA meets. Some I bought, some he gave me when I bought other things.

Luckily for me, I don't chase the K series planes, and they never made a KK2 . It would be cool to replace my Stanley #2 with a K2 though. Same with my #10, making my bench planes all Keen Kutter (or the two LN low angles, and the one I made)

The bigger of the two tool cabinets is something I'd love to emulate some day, though not necessarily like my other tool cabinet, I wouldn't be looking to make a full set from a catalog, just a likeness for my various other KK tools


----------



## bandit571

You know..it is hard to stop..









The No. 8 is now rehabbed..









Might not be to some's standard..



























Not too bad a little smoother…


----------



## Mosquito

These are just crops from another picture, but if anyone wants more specifics I can get some more when I'm in the shop next


----------



## bandit571

Well, what do you know….I do indeed have a set of feeler gauges..









Right in the drawer with the rest of the Ignition Tools

And. ...I do have a Starrett Steel ruler…
Just have never used them together…


----------



## DevinT

Looks great *bandit*


----------



## Lazyman

> You know..it is hard to stop..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bandit571


"Try not to be seduced by the gossamer shavings" -The Woodwright.


----------



## azwoodworker

Why is this thread so long? It came up in my notification, but can't find the quick click to get to the last post.


----------



## Mosquito

Because we're chatty and sometimes catty 

Easiest way to the bottom is either post like you did, or just refresh once open


----------



## Mosquito

These are the old advertisements I have on the wall. All but one area period.























































And the one I keep in the tool cabinet










And neat car on the back side


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> Why is this thread so long? It came up in my notification, but can t find the quick click to get to the last post. - azwoodworker


Tip time: 
Click on the number of new posts in right side of notifications window, and you jump your first unread post.


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## corelz125

Wow $85 tool cabinet back then must of been huge.


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## Mosquito

That one was around 1905-1906, I don't remember which (the two wooden framed ones were 1905 and 1906, just can't remember which way around they were). In the one that I keep in the tool cabinet, which is dated Dec 1912, there was a $125 price listed, but given the large one on the advertisement is $35, I imagine the $125 was more than just a tool cabinet, likely came with workbench among other things


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Coming out shortly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Don W


Very cool, Don Yoda!!


----------



## bandit571

There are 2 brace drills in the Tool Cabinet in my shop, with the Keen Kutter logo on them….

There is also a KK4 in the til….


----------



## RWE

Weekend adventures:

Cleaned and sharpened a very clean and nice Record Jack Rabbet for my timber framing buddy.


















The Record will become his user. He has a very old and beautiful Stanley that I finally convinced him to retire. Maybe i am wrong, but it did not seem fair to wear it down to extinction. The Record will do the job and while nice, it is not that old and rare.

We both build *boxes* but his are a bit bigger.

*His box:*
He is working with a friend to build this timber framed structure. It has a creek flowing in between the two bottom concrete sections. It flows to the Cahaba river, which will be the focal point of the large wall with big windows on the far side of this shot. The bottom is 1800's barn timber and the rafters are hand hewn new timbers. The top and bottom of the rafters are flat, but the sides were left round, which was a typical style. They are serious timber framers. The whole timberframe will be wrapped in a conventionally built house. The frame is just there for the beauty. Has a barn ladder still in place that will be visible in the living room.









*My boxes:*
It fits a bit on the hand plane thread because I made great use of a shooting board to get the box parts square and sized the same, coming off the table saw. I did a bunch of these previously, maybe 10 years ago. These are much better. Maybe I have learned something after the switch from power to hybrid and hand tools. Knocked out about 25 of these in the last couple of weeks.

Box Jointed Pencil boxes with Walnut and "spalted Ambrosia Maple with bark inclusions".









Used the 40 on a small slab of nicely figured Cherry.


----------



## ac0rn

I get a few hours in the shop on sundays. Weekdays are for the playhouse. "Course" work this afternoon. Roughing out a Golden Plum round in prep for resawing. 40 scrub, followed by the #5 jack. The bandsaw only clears 6".


----------



## Sylvain

> Why is this thread so long? It came up in my notification, but can t find the quick click to get to the last post.
> 
> - azwoodworker


On top you can click on "view all replies" 
It will show:
1 2 3 4 …237 next

Then to come to the end, click on the last number and you will arrive at the last page.

Do it when you are logged in; then the next time you come (logged in) to this thread, you will land on the last page you have been looking at.


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## Lazyman

Once you open a thread, it assumes you have read them all so just refresh the page and it will take you to the last page.


----------



## bigblockyeti

> *His box:*
> He is working with a friend to build this timber framed structure. It has a creek flowing in between the two bottom concrete sections.
> - RWE


My condolences in advance to your friend.


----------



## RWE

> *His box:*
> He is working with a friend to build this timber framed structure. It has a creek flowing in between the two bottom concrete sections.
> - RWE
> 
> My condolences in advance to your friend.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


I have often used the phrase that someone "has more money than they have good sense". However, I believe the engineering for that issue was handled well. They have the creek bed channeled with rocks, water proofed the walls, provided drainage all around the building base etc. etc.

What I found interesting was that they were going to put metal girders all around the top of the base and build the conventional two by four framed structure to sheath the timber frame on the girders. No chance of that getting wet, and if it does, we are all in trouble.

When I took the tour of the structure, they were finishing the timber frame and the plan was for a conventional builder/contractor to take over.

You have to admit, it will be a pretty sight, looking out your window and seeing a stream of water running by.


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## Lazyman

As long as the engineering is done right it can work just fine


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## RWE

> I get a few hours in the shop on sundays. Weekdays are for the playhouse. "Course" work this afternoon. Roughing out a Golden Plum round in prep for resawing. 40 scrub, followed by the #5 jack. The bandsaw only clears 6".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Jeff


Post some pictures of the boards that you get from that plumb. Looks like it will be some pretty wood for sure. I assume that plumb like other fruitwoods has a dense and tight structure. Might make a good saw handle.


----------



## Notw

I finally finished the Stanley No. 8C I have been working on for what seems like forever, good chance I will not work on another no. 8 again, these things are long and take forever to get flat. This one needed a lot of love since upon arrival there was quite a bit of pitting, some had to be left as I didn't want to go any deeper to remove it all. As always knob and handle were replaced with walnut to match all my other restorations.

*Before*









*After*


----------



## RWE

That looks like a fine job. Very pretty. You are getting into Sansoo territory I think.

I favor an 8 over 6's and 7's. Hopefully you will find it to be one that you really like for edge jointing, or flattening a bench top.

Did you use Engine Enamel for the jappaning and did you bake it, or just do multiple light coats. Looks smooth.


----------



## controlfreak

Looks great!


----------



## Notw

> That looks like a fine job. Very pretty. You are getting into Sansoo territory I think.
> 
> I favor an 8 over 6 s and 7 s. Hopefully you will find it to be one that you really like for edge jointing, or flattening a bench top.
> 
> Did you use Engine Enamel for the jappaning and did you bake it, or just do multiple light coats. Looks smooth.
> 
> - RWE


Duplicolor engine enamel semi gloss black. Did two light coats and then a third heavy coat. no baking.


----------



## HokieKen

Fantastic work Notw! I agree, you may be giving Sansoo a run in the cosmetic department ;-)


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Wow! Excellent work Notw!


----------



## Mosquito

very nice indeed! That engine enamel semi gloss black is popular stuff lol


----------



## bandit571

All things Keen Kutter..









Logo on a drill I have..









A KR6 Brace drill….

Almost done..









Starting to fill up nicely?


----------



## DevinT

> I get a few hours in the shop on sundays. Weekdays are for the playhouse. "Course" work this afternoon. Roughing out a Golden Plum round in prep for resawing. 40 scrub, followed by the #5 jack. The bandsaw only clears 6".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Jeff
> 
> Post some pictures of the boards that you get from that plumb. Looks like it will be some pretty wood for sure. I assume that plumb like other fruitwoods has a dense and tight structure. Might make a good saw handle.
> 
> - RWE


I didn't have my glasses on and I immediately exclaimed to myself:

Wow, that's a nice hunk of meat and some funny shenanigans with hand planes though the shavings look deli thin.

Then I squinted and saw it was wood.


----------



## Mosquito

For braces I actually prefer my Millers Falls or Yankee, but I've got a larger sweep KK in the tool cabinet. I like having short throws around though


----------



## corelz125

Nice work Notw. I love me some heft and hubris


----------



## ac0rn

Ouch! Well last night I came in to upload the Plum pictures, and called it a night. Then later thought I was missing something, but couldn't think what it might be. I remembered while having my morning cup. That last picture shows the location of the #5 (resting on green wood overnight) Alas, to late. Flash rust! All cleaned up, and oiled. Thankfully I remembered this morning, and not next weekend.

RWE- Not sure what it be used for, that time frame is at least a year away.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Need to get some paint on the ends of that log pronto if it's that green. At least, in my experience with a similar chunk of apple.


----------



## ac0rn

The paint will go on right after I slice the log. should be next sunday. Cold this week, so no worries.


----------



## HokieKen

Had a box from the Great White North show up on my porch yesterday 









Much thanks to Andre for working out a deal with me on this thing! This guy ticks a line off my wishlist that's been on there for 3 years or so


----------



## RWE

Congratulations Kenny. Now you know that you really need a vintage 112 to go with it. LOL

That looks like a very thick plate. I expect it has a different feel to it than the thinner platies in the 12 and 112 and equivalents.


----------



## HokieKen

That is a thicker blade than the stock blade RWE. Andre included both  I like the ability to camber the blade with the thumbscrew on my #80 though so I'm going to try both blades in this one and see which one suits me better.


----------



## rad457

Glad to hear you are pleased Have you guessed as to what that Dark wood was in the Box? The Birch was from a tree that fell victim to a Alaskan chainsaw mill a few years back!


----------



## HokieKen

It looks kinda like some sort of Mahogany Andre but I'm not positive. It's a lot more dense than the Honduran and African Mahoganies that I've had. Maybe Santos Mahogany?


----------



## rad457

Very close, did come from Africa, I got some in 2014 in Portland Wa. Was one of Krenov's favorite woods


----------



## HokieKen

Teak?


----------



## rad457

> Teak?
> 
> - HokieKen


Common Name(s): Afzelia, *doussie*, xylay, chanfuta, pod mahogany
Have to admit, have strong attachment to his work and philosophy. Krenov that is!


----------



## HokieKen

Interesting! Never heard of Afzelia before. I like the look and feel of the piece you sent though so I'll have to keep an eye out next time I go wood shopping


----------



## BlasterStumps

I picked a Stanley No 3, type 11 today that I am going to try fixing up. One strange thing about this No 3, after looking at it closely, is that it looks like it the outsides of the casting was japanned. Anyway, here is what it looks like with the lever cap that I added to complete the plane:
















It will need lots of TLC, but does look worth while to fix up. I had to pay $10 with no lever cap. Even the chip breaker and blade look like they were japanned. Weird.


----------



## RWE

Looks like a good project. I like a #3. Lumber looks good, so no problem having to repair that.

Great deal for $10.00. Congrats.


----------



## bandit571

Chipbreakers back then were Blued….I can go and look at mine, after a bit….


----------



## BlasterStumps

I believe you are correct Bandit. Howsomeever, this one has either been sprayed black or it was black from factory. Looks just like the japanning on the body. I might be able to tell more once I start cleaning it up. The black is on both sides of chip breaker and blade.


----------



## bandit571

Hmm…seems I have 2 of these little critters…



























I kind of like the No. 3 size….









Whether it be a Dunlap No. 408, a Millers Falls No. 8 or the Stanley No. 3, type 11….


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice collection Bandit. I have an 8 also. I might need to revisit it again though because although it works nice, I think it could be a little better. I might not have the frog set up just right or, I might have messed up sharpening it. Something.


----------



## DevinT

Not sure if there is going to be a swap this year or who will run it, but I just bought an LV kit with PM-V11 blade for the swap in anticipation. Kit showing as out-of-stock until March 25th, but I've made the purchase so it will eventually arrive. I already have one kit ready-to-go, and just made this order so I wouldn't be using my last kit for the swap (or, worst-case scenario, the new kit arrives either during the swap or shortly-after).


----------



## DLK

> That is a thicker blade than the stock blade RWE. Andre included both  I like the ability to camber the blade with the thumbscrew on my #80 though so I m going to try both blades in this one and see which one suits me better.
> 
> - HokieKen


I think a toothing blade would work well in a 112 type plane too.


----------



## controlfreak

Something that arrived this week that needs some tuning and a test drive.


----------



## theoldfart

Nice sash plane CF. Who's the maker?


----------



## rad457

Anybody have use one of these?








With its ergonomic form for better working comfort the RALI 260 features a precision laminated steel sole and anti corrosion blackened steel side. The throat opening and back plate are also easily adjustable. Comes with 1 replaceable chrome steel blade and 1 resharpenable blade.

RALI hand planes feature quick-swapping blades, instant blade depth adjustment by lever, and always have their blade square to sole saving you time and hassle in the workshop. If the blade gets dull or nicked while on a job, it can be replaced in seconds.


----------



## Mosquito

looks a bit like the aluminum Craftsman I sent bandit lol


----------



## BlasterStumps

i would like to try a Tersa cutter head in my 6" jointer. I would imagine they are a bit pricey though.


----------



## Lazyman

If they are going to come out with new style, they could at least make it interesting like a Buck Rodgers or something.


----------



## controlfreak

> Nice sash plane CF. Who's the maker?
> 
> - theoldfart


I had to check, Ohio Tools.


----------



## controlfreak

Been making shavings all morning. Almost broke down and fired up the table saw & planer but stayed all hand tool.


----------



## RWE

> Almost broke down and fired up the table saw & planer but stayed all hand tool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - controlfreak


I salute your pile of shavings. Looks like some serious flattening going on. I spent the last several days making a new table saw sled. I had built one about 20 years ago based on a Woodsmith plan. Finally realized it had to be replaced. Did the 5 cut thing and got it pretty well dialed in. A tablesaw sled is high on the list of things that make me smile in the shop. But I have learned to move to the shooting board and planes after using it. So I am progressing.

Certain projects, I will do the Seller's knife wall and backsaw/handsaw thing. Now with a shooting board in play to back that method up, I may do more of that. But I do like the table saw sled.


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice CF. Looks like a lovely way to spend some time.

I took a Veritas 3/4" router plane iron and made it bevel edged, so I could use it to clean up sliding dovetails from the #444


----------



## bandit571

Needed to flatten some box parts, today…so..









They be flat, now….


----------



## theoldfart

Clever idea Mos, pretty cool.

And the Walke Moore is kinda noice too!


----------



## corelz125

I don't care what Kenny says about these old Bedrocks. They get the job done.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Is that all we get to see of that Bedrock? Looks nice from that picture.

I'd show you mine but, it is brilliant blue : )


----------



## Mosquito

I'd show you mine but it says Keen Kutter lol (both of them)


----------



## HokieKen

I'd show you mine but it has a red frog and hinged lever cap ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

lies lol


----------



## controlfreak

I planed until I realized I was worn out. I was taking some framing SYP down to 1 1/4" to remove a slight bow or cup depending on which side I am looking at for a pair of window sashes. I can only imagine the fitness level of a furniture maker that did this kind of work 8 or more hours a day. I was taking thin shavings but should probably attempt to take a little more wood on each pass to reduce the amount of work but was afraid of going to far. I call it "chasing my tail" where I plane and over correct or start on the wrong corners. I must admit that I am very pleased at the skill I am getting at reading the grain, winding sticks and straight edge to end up with a square piece of wood.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I planed until I realized I was worn out. I was taking some framing SYP down to 1 1/4" to remove a slight bow or cup depending on which side I am looking at for a pair of window sashes. I can only imagine the fitness level of a furniture maker that did this kind of work 8 or more hours a day. I was taking thin shavings but should probably attempt to take a little more wood on each pass to reduce the amount of work but was afraid of going to far. I call it "chasing my tail" where I plane and over correct or start on the wrong corners. I must admit that I am very pleased at the skill I am getting at reading the grain, winding sticks and straight edge to end up with a square piece of wood.
> 
> - controlfreak


Doing similar things was when I started to see the wisdom in cutting pieces closer to final length before planing. It's quite a switch in perspective from the machine-planing perspective of running longer pieces though once instead of running several shorter pieces through.


----------



## DevinT

I use a construction pencil (could be any pencil, but construction pencils don't roll, so I can toss them on the bench after use and they stay where I toss them) and do the following …

1. Find high spots
2. Mark the low spots with the pencil
3. Mark the high spots with the pencil *separately*
*NOTE*: By "mark" I mean squiggles, no need to get fancy here
4. Perform a single pass over the high spot
*NOTE:* could mean a single swipe, partial swipe, switching to a smaller plane, hanging the blade off the edge of the board, or even overlapping multiple passes if the high spot is really wide
*ASIDE:* Now here comes the magic
5. Make a pass with about 1/3rd of the iron passing over the low spot

Here's what you are looking for:

a. After having removed all the pencil from the particular high spot you are working
b. You want to see if you have brought the high spot down to the low spot
c. You do this quickly by seeing if the iron can take off the pencil in the low spot while 2/3rds of the iron is taking a shaving over the high spot

By bridging the high and low spot and simply planing repeated passes over the high spot *UNTIL* you can take off some pencil in the valley that-is the low spot, you know when the two areas are or are-not co-planer.

Once a swipe down the middle of the peak and valley produces a co-planer surface, it's time to take off all the pencil in the low area working outward from the previous high spot. However, don't over-do it, you're just trying to remove the pencil with light passes so you can …

Move on to the next high spot (if there is one), or get out the winding sticks and straight edge and determine if you're done or if you want to make it even flatter.

This is also how I know whether I am taking off too little material or not. If I can't bridge a low with a high spot in 2 passes over a high spot, I'm immediately increasing my depth. I keep increasing my depth by about 1/16th of a turn of the knob or less, ... sort of "creeping up to a run" and as soon as I have bridged the high and low, I'll immediately back off to a very thin shaving.

That is to say that planing to produce thin shavings is like crawling while planing to produce thick shavings is like running. I want to run up to the finish line-I am OK with crawling the last few inches of the race, but I don't want to crawl the entire time. Knowing when it is time to crawl and when it is time to run is very important, IMHO. That's why I mark the highs and lows separately-I can take cardstock type shavings knocking down those high spots with confidence because I know as long as the pencil remains in that adjacent valley, I have to keep going on that same high spot.


----------



## DevinT

The question may arise … how do you know where the high and low spots are?

Easy …

Take a flashlight or any light source and stick it behind one of your winding sticks. Dip down. Look for light …

Where the light starts, make a mark with your pencil.
Similarly, where the light stops, make a mark with your pencil.
Connect the marks.

*ASIDE:* Quite often you may see that the bottom straight edge of your winding stick (or ruler, or whatever) makes contact where no light gets through in multiple places (that is to say there are distinctive separate sections where light gets through).

Now move the winding stick forward a couple inches and repeat (how many inches is entirely up to you).
When you get to the end of the board, remove the winding stick and connect the ends of the lines to create clear boundaries between the peaks and valleys.

Yes, this can take a few minutes depending on the size of the board, however …

Say you've got a busy life (like a newborn that requires tending to when the spouse gets exhausted). This method allows you to walk away from planing in the middle of the process and pick right back up where you left off. One simple glance at the board and you immediately know which spots you were working (the high spots without pencil; *NOTE:* Marking the high spots is actually entirely optional; marking the low spots where light gets through and then planing all the non-marked areas until you can remove the pencil in the valleys as-described above is perfectly valid approach as well).

I also get the sense that I am always making forward progress when I approach it in this manner. I never get frustrated …

... except ever-so-slightly when I come back the next day and find that the 1/8" cup I removed is now a 1/16" cup-but even in that case, I know that the amount of work has halved and … as experience tells me … working that out, I can expect a tolerable amount of cup as the stresses stabilize.

NOTE:


----------



## corelz125

Here's a couple more pics Mike.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm, Jacks or better?









Stanley No. 5, Type 11….and









Millers Falls No. 14s…Type 2 and Type 4

May have just sold that Type 2….









As I'd rather keep the Type 4….since it had been repaired…


----------



## rad457

My one an only Bedrock, cost $30.00 CAN. but seems to work okay








That date mean anything?


----------



## corelz125

Looks like the same type as mine Andre.


----------



## terryR

Mos, how can I order one of those sliding dovetail blades? LOL. Nice work! Love the Walke Moore, too.










No shavings for me the past week. Just sore wrists from filing. But there's a day of woodwork ahead as soon as I finish a few night shifts…


----------



## DavePolaschek

That's looking pretty good, Terry! I'm really hoping I can get caught up enough on projects one of these days to start cutting and filing metal, myself.


----------



## DevinT

I have been trying to find a good source for gray iron for planes. So far the only place I have found is speedymetals dot com. Not really economical to buy old planes and chip them up. I can mill the cast iron easily but not create it (no forge or press).

From what I can tell from studying alloys, gray iron would be a much better choice for a plane sole than steel due to gray iron's flake graphite content that acts as a natural lubricant.

Should I scrap the idea of using gray iron soles on wooden planes and just use annealed precision ground tool steel (no need to harden it; usually harder than cast iron even in its annealed state I think)?

The advantage would be that it is extremely easy to source precision ground flat stock in steel - from the knife making market.

Just can't seem to source quality gray iron.


----------



## corelz125

Devin what parts are you looking to get? The Pexto's are crappy planes so you can usually get them cheap and they have a pretty heave sole on them.


----------



## DevinT

I'm after the sole.

Going on eBay and typing in "hand plane" and sorting on lowest price first is not very encouraging.

$18.99 for this No 3

Slim pickins for tiny amounts of iron


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos, how can I order one of those sliding dovetail blades? LOL. Nice work! Love the Walke Moore, too.
> 
> - terryR


 You send me a Terry R infill plane, and I'll send you two dovetail router plane irons lol. I just wish the Lee Valley irons worked better in the Walke Moore router. Kind of a pain to modify them to work well with it


----------



## corelz125

The can i have it facebook group some guys give away the pextos for free. I bought a Sargent 409 for less than that #3


----------



## HokieKen

Look for Durabar Devin. It's gray iron cast in bar form.


----------



## Mosquito

And speaking of router planes… Anyone been looking out for or wanting a router plane? I have a Stanley #71 with an original 1/2" iron I'll be listing soon, unless someone here wants it. Clean, sharp, and ready to go. It was my main (and only) router for a number of years, until I got my first Preston style, then Walke-Moore.

It's in good shape, with some nickle plating loss on the bottom. Knobs were sanded and painted satin black, then clear coated. I have extra 1/4" and 1/8" Lee Valley irons as well that I might be able to be convinced to swap out for the 1/2". I have a Keen Kutter router that I want either the 1/4 & 1/8, or the 1/2" for. (I might almost lean towards the 1/2" honestly)

If you're interested, shoot me a PM with what you'd be thinking. Doesn't need to be Jim Bode pricing, but still want it to be fair all around.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Mos, do the LV irons drop right into the 71 or do they have to be massaged a little? I've had mine for a while but have yet to use it because I never bought any irons for it.


----------



## bandit571

Depth adjuster wheel needs to be turned over, is all

My 71-1/2 uses a 1/4" cutter from LV….other than that, no issues…


----------



## Mosquito

Yeti, what Bandit said. On the #71 there's no modifications required to either the plane or the iron. I've run mine with the depth adjuster set both ways with original irons before too, so it's just a matter of 1/4" difference in max depth vs max height


----------



## DLK

The LV irons drop right in. I think the adjust nut only needs to be turned over if you want full depth.

Ack you got in first Mos and bandit. LOL.


----------



## DevinT

> Look for Durabar Devin. It's gray iron cast in bar form.
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks! That's what I was looking for.


----------



## terryR

very cool, Mos.

Devin, I use 1018 mild steel for the base; cannot imagine filing the T&G for the mouth from tool steel. I just assumed it would be tougher than cast iron, but now I kinda want to try Durabar.


----------



## DevinT

The machinability of cast iron is most excellent and it can be machined dry very well because the high graphite content. Another benefit of gray iron.


----------



## HokieKen

Working with hand tools, I'd stick with mild steel TR. Cast iron is very brittle. Try peening it and you get to start over ;-) If you're machining a one-piece base it's a good option but otherwise not so much. I'm not sure in practical terms either has a clear advantage in terms of use. But cast iron is more economical for mass production so that's why it was used so extensively.


----------



## HokieKen

And another one gets away…









She was out of my league and the winning bid reflected such :-(


----------



## donwilwol

> The machinability of cast iron is most excellent and it can be machined dry very well because the high graphite content. Another benefit of gray iron.
> 
> - DevinT


I'm not exactly sure what you are looking for when you mentioned cheaper planes, but would something like these work for you?


----------



## DevinT

DonW, exactly what I am looking for.


----------



## HokieKen

Devin, FWIW most planes are poured from Ductile Iron rather than gray iron. At least in modern planes. I can't really say for sure about the 19th century planes. Ductile iron has nodular graphite rather than flake which gives it some ductility and increased strength. In practical terms for hand planes, this allows the thinner castings to be poured and still be strong enough to survive the occasional drop or gorilla using it to hog off 1/8" cuts. On the downside for what your considering though, DI isn't as machinable as gray iron. Wearability is pretty much the same for both.

But if you're looking to put thin soles on wood planes, I'd definitely look to ductile iron instead of gray. However, all things considered, I think you'd be better off going with flat ground steel stock. Even in the annealed state it has significantly more strength and elasticity than either flavor of CI. And in terms of wear it's also superior. As far as the graphite giving lubricity, I can't say for sure but I imagine that the better surface finish that is attainable on homogenous steel more than makes up for any advantage the graphite gives with the relatively porous surface condition of cast iron.


----------



## DevinT

Thanks Ken! That is very useful info.

Here's the backstory …

I bought this book and have been learning










Besides trying to cut up a plane to use its sole, here is the *OTHER* reason I want a really junky old piece of hand plane iron to work …










I want to try two things.

I want to try the "Frosted" effect.

I want to try engraving a hand plane.

Both of which I will use the Shaper Origin and a special Amana bit I purchased that has a 90 degree engraving tip and is designed to cut stainless steel or anything softer.

For the frosted effect, I would do as the book says and glue a disc of emery paper to a dowel but then mount the dowel in the Origin so I can meticulously place the frost circles.

I have been acquiring more metal working tools and this book has also helped me to identify some of the chisels I inherited from my grandfather and great grandfather. Like star drills, flat cold chisels and sundry.

As the book says, the best way to learn is to "have a go" and so now I need some gray iron to work.

For soles, I will heed your advice and look to DI or steel which I have the ability to machine as well. You are probably right that the flake graphite (which so effectively dampens the abrasive qualities of sandpaper when flattening soles) is not helping much when planing (and in any way, we can always just use plane wax).

Looking at those DonW soles and dying to "have a go"


----------



## DevinT

I guess what the book calls a "frosted" effect the rest of the World calls "engine turned" effect


----------



## HokieKen

Any book that has a picture using a surface gauge to do layout work on the cover gets my endorsement Devin  Most consider it an antiquated tool these days but it's a must-have for me. I use it for all kinds of stuff.


----------



## HokieKen

What you're talking about is also known as "spotting" Devin. Engine Turning is done on special type of lathe for ornamental work and is done with a cutting tool. Using abrasive on the end of a rod is spotting. Same general effect but a little different when you look at them up close.


----------



## DevinT

Do you know why putting a pattern on the surface keeps rust at bay? Author of the book admits he doesn't know why but says that it does.


----------



## HokieKen

Not a clue. Never heard that before. I don't know that I've ever seen cast iron surfaced in that way at all unless it was plated first. I can't think of any good reason that it would prevent corrosion but there's a lot of things I don't know. Well… maybe not "a lot" but a few ;-)


----------



## corelz125

Was it that one Ctaftsman plane that had a similar look on the sides?


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah there was a Craftsman plane with a similar finish on the cheeks. Pretty sure it was chrome plated though.


----------



## Notw

I've always heard it as metal jeweling


----------



## bandit571

Follow-up Doctor's visit is done…blood drawn, pee in a cup…Bp, 127/72

Now have to take the Boss on her errands…

Need to pick up a flat rate box to be able to ship out a Millers Falls No. 14, Type 2….later.

Not much shop time, today…


----------



## donwilwol

> DonW, exactly what I am looking for.
> 
> - DevinT


How many do you want and what is the smallest you can use?


----------



## DevinT

> Any book that has a picture using a surface gauge to do layout work on the cover gets my endorsement Devin  Most consider it an antiquated tool these days but it s a must-have for me. I use it for all kinds of stuff.
> 
> - HokieKen


The book is amazing so far. For example, I didn't know that there is an optimum speed for filing certain metals by hand. The thing is chock full of lost knowledge (in fact the book says in the introduction that it is dedicated to documenting knowledge that was common around WW2 about working metal by hand, everything from measuring and marking out to using cold chisels). So many things I had never heard of, and detailed information like the correct angle at which to hold a cold chisel depending on the material, relief angle, etc.

Even contains good safety info like when to retire your cold chisel (when the head mushrooms; causing brittle parts to hang over the edge that can break off and hit you in the eye, for example)-or at least pair back the head with an "emery wheel"

I'm still not quite clear on what exactly emery paper is. Is it like ceramic sandpaper? and I wonder if Zirconia sandpaper is better (so far from tests at the 4×36, my ceramic belts are winning over zirconia for performance and finish)


----------



## donwilwol

it would be ceramic sandpaper before there was ceramic sandpaper. I think it is probably one of the first "flexible" paper. I think today it is just called wet/dry


----------



## DevinT

> DonW, exactly what I am looking for.
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> How many do you want and what is the smallest you can use?
> 
> - Don W


Smallest I can use is the ~9.5" long bench planes.

corelz shot me a link to a Handyman on eBay for $6 BIN ($8 shipping) which came out to $15 (purchased and on its way), but …

It's a nearly complete plane (lacking front knob).

No complaints, of course, everything but the sole will go into the "Plane Parts" box to get used at a later date (or have some other franken-idea foisted upon them).

But right now I'm basically needing the iron to have a go at metal working gray (non-ductile) iron.

There will be no peining obviously, just cutting, milling, spotting, and engraving tests. I do hope to get a few usable hunks of iron out of it for a franken-plane or "infill"-not dovetailed, mind you, as peining should shatter the iron, but perhaps milling off the bosses.

Cracked mouths, chipped corners, distorted bosses, 0% japanning, 100% surface rust with massive pitting, ...

I'll take any of it.

What I need is:

No warp/twist on the body (hollows, bumps, whatever, I don't care, but twists are just a pain and getting something twisted into my clamping setup is just going to more pain, and having removed twist from a Stanley No 8, I'm just not excited about servicing the hunk of iron before its usable).

At least 9" long (if the thing is completely broken in half, that's fine … I don't need the toe and heel of the body to be intact … I can Frankenstein them into a usable position, but I do need enough iron for a heel and toe and ideally that ridge in the casting in front of the mouth should be intact as it has structural value to keep the walls rigid.

I'm looking for at least 2, maybe 3 bodies to start with.

I'll do spotting on one using emery cloth on dowel with Shaper Origin.

I'll try using a cutter in the Shaper Origin to do the same technique as above on another plane to see which I like more.

I'll be handling both to test the claim that this makes them resistant to corrosion.

And on a third, I will test engraving. Naturally, it would probably be nice to have at least one intact body for the engraving tests (so we have something pretty to look at).


----------



## DevinT

> it would be ceramic sandpaper before there was ceramic sandpaper. I think it is probably one of the first "flexible" paper. I think today it is just called wet/dry
> 
> - Don W


Thanks. Yeah, I think I'll skip it (emery cloth) then. In my experience, ceramic is soooo much faster than regular sandpaper it's ridiculous.


----------



## rad457

Wet n Dry, think I still may have a few sheets of Crocus cloth


----------



## HokieKen

Emery is actual a mineral that is primarily Aluminum Oxide with some traces of Iron Oxides mixed in. The reason you see it mentioned so often in relation to metal working is because the bonding process used to adhere the refined grit to the cloth backing prevents pieces from breaking loose and embedding into the metal being polished like can occur with AlOx.

Like Don said though, modern synthetic abrasives and bonding adhesives have pretty much rendered Emery Cloth antiquated. Even if you find something called emery, it's most likely a ceramic of some sort.


----------



## DevinT

Interesting. This looks like AlOx to me but they call it Emery. In one of the photos, I swear I can see part of the word "Aluminum" on the back of the cloth.

Thank you so much for your very thorough explanations, *DonW* and *Kenny*


----------



## DevinT

> Wet n Dry, think I still may have a few sheets of Crocus cloth
> 
> - Andre


Internet says they stopped making that in 1989. Hey, it must be increasing in value!


----------



## Notw

Looks like the specification ended in 1989 but it appears to still be sold on Amazon


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Ken, I now remember cast iron is not peen-able. Tool steel will peen a small amount, but not in my shop. Give me the 1018.

That book for home machinists looks like One I'd like to own! I didn't even know machinists used carbide drill bits to drill bronze, but after breaking off a bit in a nearly finished plane I won't forget!


----------



## corelz125

Emery cloth reminds me of sweating pipes. Everyone would say get the emery cloth to clean the pipe off.


----------



## bandit571

3m Wet-or-Dry sandpaper…just bought a pack of 2000 grit sheets last week …at Walmart. And…most places that sell Auto Body refinishing supplies sells them….up to 3000 grit.

I usually stop at 2500 grit when I sharpen…then strop/Unicorn….and, I simply add a squiggle of 3in1 oil to help things along. KISS….


----------



## DevinT

Toward the end of January, I took a huge leap forward in efficiency.

That's a 5000 grit Red Label on the 4×36. Some of the green belts are Red Label Zirconia and other green belts are Red Label Ceramic










In minutes, went from this:





































to this:


----------



## DevinT

Note, it wasn't just surface rust. The thing was pitted all to kingdom-come. This (above and below) is my go-to twist drill bit for when I need a 60-degree tip (better for acrylic than the normal wide angle on twist bits) for when I need to make a 1/2" hole in plastic. Cleaning it up wasn't just for aesthetics, but also for smooth operation.

Look how pitted this thing was before I took it to the belts.


----------



## corelz125

First blue one to come into the family.


----------



## DevinT

> First blue one to come into the family.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - corelz125


Hmmm, did they actually put the decal there back then? Looks original.


----------



## corelz125

Not sure how old this one is. I haven't read too much about the type studies for the Reocrds. I have a couple of those Red Label green ceramic belts. They work the best when lapping a sole.


----------



## Sylvain

"frosted"; "engine turned" "spotting" effects.
Happy to see the acknowledgment that
flat, shine, non-frictional, and wear resistant are 4 different concepts.


----------



## bandit571

At one time, before I traded it off for a Millers Falls No. 9….I had an Anant No. A-4 with the paper label stuck on the tote, like that.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Not sure how old this one is. I haven t read too much about the type studies for the Reocrds. I have a couple of those Red Label green ceramic belts. They work the best when lapping a sole.
> 
> - corelz125


Assuming the sticker is original, makes it 60's-70's if it's a transparent background, 80's plus if a blue background.
Looks transparent, but pics a bit blurry.


----------



## corelz125

It is transparent Mike. How was the quality of this type of plane?


----------



## MikeB_UK

Generally pretty good, normally slightly better than Stanleys of the same period, although you could get the odd monday morning build.


----------



## Lazyman

Never thought about using a handplane on a lathe but it sort of makes sense, once you see it done.


----------



## bandit571

used to use a Stanley No. 110 with the lathe.


----------



## Mosquito

I believe that discussion came up a good while again when Mauricio was spotted/admitted to doing it if I remember correctly. That was when he was on his wood screw making adventures I think


----------



## DevinT

That's a neat trick. Bet if you did that often enough the sole would have a nice width-wise hollow in front of the mouth. After a while, I bet you'd just have to junk the plane


----------



## bandit571

That was mainly WHY I used the No. 110…..cheap plane, easy to find….

Note: You do NOT need to press down very hard…just let the plane ride along. Hold it merely to keep it under control.

Also is better than all that sanding dust flying around….


----------



## BlasterStumps

I was watching a guy weld a broken cast iron manifold for an engine with thermal spray gun. Was wondering how that method would work on a broken plane body. Might also be known as spray welding or puddle gun welding?

By the way, the Loctite super glue I used on the Bedrock 604 seems to be pretty solid fix.


----------



## corelz125

I never heard of that before Mike. I'll have to look it up
Looks like it might be hard to get control over the bead to get a fine bead laid down.


----------



## BlasterStumps

no bead, just a broad spray of metal


----------



## corelz125

Looks like that spray weld ads a light layer of metal doesn't really penetrate. It might work for heavy pitting but it puts a lot of heat into the piece.


----------



## 33706

> Never thought about using a handplane on a lathe but it sort of makes sense, once you see it done.
> 
> - Lazyman


I'm glad you posted this!
Years ago I spoke of a video I saw where a well-experienced turner used a butcher's meat cleaver on his lathe workpiece, and achieved a near perfect cylindrical surface with it. Everyone laffed at me for suggesting it. This was probably a thousand pages ago here in HOYD.


----------



## Sylvain

> Bet if you did that often enough the sole would have a nice width-wise hollow in front of the mouth. After a while, I bet you d just have to junk the plane
> - DevinT





> That was mainly WHY I used the No. 110…..cheap plane, easy to find….
> Note: You do NOT need to press down very hard…just let the plane ride along. Hold it merely to keep it under control.
> - bandit571


The plane might be lost for planing boards, but does the hollowing affect its use on the lathe?
Won't it act as a pencil sharpener?


----------



## Mosquito

Discussion from a while back, but this is why St James Bay Tools is such a double edges sword for me… Yes, they make parts no one else does, but I'm 0 for 4 now on "satisfied" with workmanship on stuff I've got from them










Big deal? No, I'll file down the nub and live with the gouges. It just feels silly that I have to, and like a lack of caring to be honest


----------



## DevinT

Somebody didn't have their cutter set up properly when facing off. Also, that finish is ridiculous. Like, you couldn't even be bothered to do a spring pass let alone at the bare minimum run some emery cloth over it while it was still in the lathe?

Not to mention, that face doesn't even look perpendicular. Poor concentricity or they just used a 3-jaw chuck or something stupid.

Yeah, those are all easily fixed, but where is the pride in your work?


----------



## Mosquito

I'm sure they part the end off and don't face it. Guessing they make a bunch at a time, parting the previous one off makes the face of this one, and leave it at that.

Looks like they ran a little deep with the cutter to make the taper, went to feed it off the end, disengaged the lathe when they saw it still cutting, then scratched the cutter across the rest to clear it?


----------



## HokieKen

That's classy right there Mos'. What is it exactly? I remember you ordering something but don't recall what.


----------



## Mosquito

The rod for my Keen Kutter router plane. Had the front foot with it, but no rod (read that as someone probably needed the rod for another plane and swiped it)


----------



## Lazyman

Random plane shot. Cleaning up the taper on my new cherry leg vise chop with the MF 14 I restored about a year ago. Definitely my most reliable user.


----------



## RWE

Speaking of sharpening, I spent the day yesterday creating a new base for the Rikon (1/2 horse) grinder.

I owned the Wolverine system because I turn a bit. When I decided to add CBN wheels to grinder a year or so ago, I modified the Wolverine platform to accept the jigs (WoodTurners Wonders) for lining up skews and other turning tools.

I created a 25 degree side grind jig so I could use the sides of the CBN wheels to do chisels and small plane irons. But I never had a way to do hollow grind on wider irons, other than free hand on the modified Wolverine table.

For years I have had the Veritas grinder table and I never liked it. If you mounted it on a grinder, it got in the way of the Wolverine system. I had it mounted on a smaller 5 inch grinder but just never got much use out of it.

So today, I wake up and I have peace of mind. I am not anxious about not having a Tormek or a Worksharp. My life is complete. As a matter or fact, i am not sure how to handle this new found peace. I will have to find some other shop problem to obsess about.

On the new base I mounted the Veritas table on the back of the 350 grit wheel, but I used threaded inserts to be able to remove it if I have to put in the Wolverine long bar. I also put in threaded inserts so I could mount the Veritas on the 180 grit wheel.

The Veritas had a lot of slop in the sliding part that fits in the groove. I think it was by design. The idea is that you set the jig and then push up to register on the front of the groove, grind then let off pressure and the slider will shift away from the front and drop to bottom side of the groove. I always hated that slop. So I put in some plastic tape (from a shooting board project) and got rid of the slop.

After getting the new system ready, I was able to knock off the plane iron from the Union #6 that I picked up a while back. There is enough flex in the uprights on the Veritas platform that I was able to set it and just flex pressure to begin the grind. Worked very well. With the CBN, I can creep right up to a barely visible edge and then make short work of finishing on the diamonds and a unicorn on the buffer.

As always, pardon the sloppy workbench.


----------



## BlasterStumps

very nice setup RWE.


----------



## HokieKen

Nicely done RWE! A good and easy sharpening setup is a pleasure to have and for me it's always something I'm thinking how to evolve  I have a bench grinder set up with white AO wheels and a wolverine system for turning gouges that I'm happy with. And I have my Worksharp set up well for straight edge tools of all kinds and with Tormek-style jigs for carving gouges.

I got CBN wheels last summer for the Worksharp and for Christmas I got a Tormek jig for skews which was one thing I still did freehand and I wasn't satisfied with. Today I used that jig for the first time on one of my turning skews and with the jig and the CBN, I feel like I've taken another step towards the perfect sharpening system


----------



## BlasterStumps

Just some rambling:
I was out in the shop going thru some drawers and cabinets trying to organize things a bit and came upon these:

















I knew I had a 607 someplace but wasn't sure where.

The Wooden plane is a really nice jointer plane (Stanley 30 with arched logo on cutter) but I messed it up by putting a stain on it. Might see if I can figure out a way to remedy that. I believe it might be beech and it didn't like the stain. Hmmm, how to get rid of that nasty blotchy look? Yes, I stuck that ugly tote on there : ). I still have the other tote but it needs a new top put back on.

The No 7C in the middle has real promise of being a good jointer plane. I'm not sure if it is a type 9 or 10. Two patent dates but don't remember which that is. I really like the plane and can't remember why I stuck it away in a drawer. Maybe it is because I hate the tote on it. I will have an eye out now for another one.

I think I will spend some time working on all three. I'm not real fond of the 607 but probably just need to revisit it to make it work better. I know it could look a little better.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Are those double sided CBN discs? Two grits?



> Nicely done RWE! A good and easy sharpening setup is a pleasure to have and for me it's always something I'm thinking how to evolve  I have a bench grinder set up with white AO wheels and a wolverine system for turning gouges that I'm happy with. And I have my Worksharp set up well for straight edge tools of all kinds and with Tormek-style jigs for carving gouges.
> 
> I got CBN wheels last summer for the Worksharp and for Christmas I got a Tormek jig for skews which was one thing I still did freehand and I wasn't satisfied with. Today I used that jig for the first time on one of my turning skews and with the jig and the CBN, I feel like I've taken another step towards the perfect sharpening system
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## HokieKen

Yes, 80/180 - 350/600 - 800/1200


----------



## DevinT

I hope to join the fun in sharpening this weekend, but first have to gain some political capital by doing chores.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice method for sharpening that worksharp with those discs. I guess I need to come up a little in that area. I still use sandpaper discs.

Hope you can share your method with us Devin. Not sure if you are getting something new or?


----------



## terryR

Kenny, what are you making?


----------



## Lazyman

Kenny, is there some sort of gauge for setting the skew angle on that Tormek jig?


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photo..









Had to clean up that box back there, BEFORE I could glue that panel on…


----------



## RWE

> Nicely done RWE! A good and easy sharpening setup is a pleasure to have and for me it's always something I'm thinking how to evolve  I have a bench grinder set up with white AO wheels and a wolverine system for turning gouges that I'm happy with. And I have my Worksharp set up well for straight edge tools of all kinds and with Tormek-style jigs for carving gouges.
> 
> I got CBN wheels last summer for the Worksharp and for Christmas I got a Tormek jig for skews which was one thing I still did freehand and I wasn't satisfied with. Today I used that jig for the first time on one of my turning skews and with the jig and the CBN, I feel like I've taken another step towards the perfect sharpening system
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


The Woodturners Wonders jigs for the table that they sell worked well for me. Like you I did all my turning tools when I got the CBN. Skews now look kinda professional. When i did them by hand, I had a "multi-faceted" tool for sure.

In my many ideas that I have had to get the best (also least expensive) jig for the CBN's on the grinder, I did discover that there is a new (new to me at least) Wolverine product. It puts a Tormek type of round bar in one of the Wolverine slots and lets you pivot a "flat grind" off that bar. It is called a Grind n' Hone. At $175.00 for that, I opted to give the Veritas Table, which I already owned, a shot.

My biggest problem is shop space, else I would have multiple grinders and such. Having one Grinder and keeping the Wolverine system, the Grind n' Hone made sense, but just too pricey. Might be right for someone. Anyone ever use one and if so, what is the opinion of it.


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny, what are you making?
> 
> - terryR


Just turning a few pepper grinders. Nothing exciting. Still wrapping up belated Christmas gifts…


----------



## Lazyman

I've thought about buying a Worksharp several times but I have a project in the back of my mind to try and make one using an old Breadmaker.


----------



## HokieKen

There is an angle scale on that jig Nathan. It's not super precise but it gets you close enough.


----------



## corelz125

Kenny have you tried sharpening a router plane cutter on the worksharp?


----------



## DevinT

> Hope you can share your method with us Devin. Not sure if you are getting something new or?
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Depends how dull/damaged.

Might start with 60 grit Zirconia Red Label 4×36 and then use 120 grit ceramic (also Red Label 4×36).

I use a block of rubber to clean the belts (called "Prostik").

Then, Trend 1000 grit diamond plate (using Windex or HoneRite) with honing guide and last but not least, Shapton 16000 grit (in Shapton heavy holder, atop Tormek rubber mat) for mirror polish.

I use a high polymer eraser to clean the diamond plate.

I use the 300 grit side of the Trend Diamond plate to flatten the Shapton once or twice a year. In between flattening, I use a Lansky eraser block.

Goes directly to work after the finest of burs is removed on the Shapton. After some hand planing it gets stropped with extra fine to restore the hone.

I can go weeks or even months between honings. I only have to use the 4×36 when regrinding the primary bevel or removing a nick.


----------



## terryR

Ahhh, Kenny, now I see the photo more clearly…

I thought you were rough shaping a new iron for a plane (since that is what I'm doing today); didn't notice you were sharpening a skew. You know how every thing looks like a nail to a guy with a hammer!

But I sure like that jig holding the chisel! I have a few 8" diamond wheels (used for rock) for this flat top tool, and may have to rig something similar to your photo.










…not for sharpening since I prefer DMT's for that, but for initial stock removal before heat treatment.

…or just for the hell of it, since no shop has too many jigs!


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny have you tried sharpening a router plane cutter on the worksharp?
> 
> - corelz125


Nope I've only ever sharpened those with diamond plates.

TR, Tormed sells a retrofit kit to use their jigs with a bench grinder. Would probably be simple to mount it for use with your lapidary grinder.


----------



## bigblockyeti

I need diamond plates, stones are all but gone (one froze and turned to gravel) and they were too small to start with, suggestions?


----------



## HokieKen

DMT are the only large-ish diamonds I've owned Yeti and I've been happy with them. They've stayed flat for several years and I haven't had any issues with unexpected wear. I just lube with glass cleaner and scrub them with Barkeeper's Friend and a stiff nylon brush occasionally.


----------



## drsurfrat

I just picked up a woodcraft /Wood River coarse 120/180 diamond plat to lap my water stones. $43 on sale.


----------



## RWE

Like Hokie, all I have ever owned are the 8 inch DMT DuoSharp, XtraCoarse/Course Extra Fine/Fine. I don't want to step on the SurfRats toes (hanging 10 over the tip of the surfboard), but I bought the Woodriver 10 inch and it separated from the plate after a few months. It was not well made and not worth the price I paid ($40 to $50 on sale). I hope you have better luck DrSurfRat.

I use a Veritas MK2 jig and have never had a problem working on the 8 inch size, but there are 10 inch diamonds and you could take longer strokes. DMT is good, available on Amazon. I see Paul Sellers using a diamond with smaller perforations than the DMT I use.


----------



## anneb3

For me making small things, such as picture frames, I always Good will stores, folks are always replacing good old furniture with new particle board.

My best good find was at a university auction. 25 4 by 8 ft desks that they were getting rid of, complete with drawers and andl legs for 1 . dollar each. Solid Maple, not a knot anywhere. Bought all of them.

Called brother with a truck and off we went went.

Good thing about stuff, It it is usually finished on both sides, so no more warping.


----------



## Mosquito

I've had Eze-Lap diamond plates for quite a few years now, 7 maybe? I've been happy. Little smaller than the Dmt Duo-Sharp plates I had before, but I didn't like the holes


----------



## drsurfrat

> ..., but I bought the Woodriver 10 inch and it separated from the plate after a few months. It was not well made and not worth the price I paid ($40 to $50 on sale). I hope you have better luck DrSurfRat.
> - RWE


Thanks for the tip, I only intend to use it to flatten other stones.


----------



## RWE

> ..., but I bought the Woodriver 10 inch and it separated from the plate after a few months. It was not well made and not worth the price I paid ($40 to $50 on sale). I hope you have better luck DrSurfRat.
> - RWE
> 
> Thanks for the tip, I only intend to use it to flatten other stones.
> 
> - drsurfrat


If you are using waterstones, I always wanted to try them. You hear so many positive things about how fast they cut. That Woodriver diamond should be good for a flattening plate. I got the fine grit and the center came loose and starting moving inside the diamond sides. I lost faith in it.


----------



## RWE

I am a country boy now living in the city. So I decided to take up baking.

Actually, I started reading Sansoo's blog on the 605 restoration. This is my second time to bake.

My faulty/cheapo sandblasting rig did not work so well on the Union #6 body, but the Fulton block (Christmas swap gift) and the little Defiance 1243 smoother came out ok (Bandit posted about the Defiance with the little posts for a frog further back in the thread).

Before baking:










After baking. First bake at 150 Degrees










Like the first time I tried it, the paint does seem to settle and even up. The grid on the little Fulton block looks much better. Hard to tell from the pictures, but I believe.

Now I want to see if I can get another hour done before SWMBO gets home.

Engine Auto Paint with Ceramic content, Semi-Gloss Black.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Picked this little weirdo 5 1/4 up today. Has a newer tote and knob on it, they are terrible. As you can see it has a big chip out of the side but it shouldn't effect usability. Has B.OF.E (board of education) stamped into the side and 245 stamped on the iron (classroom number?).I think that's neat! It will get type 18 wood to replace the ones on it and made into a user. One step closer to a full set! Still have a few more to go.


----------



## DevinT

The knob that wouldn't come off met my 1" bench chisel


----------



## RWE

> ..., but I bought the Woodriver 10 inch and it separated from the plate after a few months. It was not well made and not worth the price I paid ($40 to $50 on sale). I hope you have better luck DrSurfRat.
> - RWE
> 
> Thanks for the tip, I only intend to use it to flatten other stones.
> 
> - drsurfrat


In the interest of a full vetting on this Woodriver diamond plate:

I have not touched it for years now. Since I was sharpening some plane irons today and the mention came up, I pulled it out of the sharpening box and looked it over.

It seems that the manufacturer (probably India, like the planes) used magnets to hold the diamond incrusted plate to the plastic center panel. All I knew was that the plate started slipping in use and I got a bit ticked off and put it aside. I wanted the 400 grit side for grunt work in getting a bevel in place. Now I don't need that with the CBN rig, so I usually go to the DMT coarse or fine off of the CBN.

So I am a dummy. the plate seems intact and I just put some epoxy to hold the thing from slipping.

Having said that, I would not recommend those plates for fine work, 400 and 1200 is too big a gap. I don't think the standard of flatness is as great as DMT and other brands.










Note the magnets:









The other side never broke free. Just a weird way to construct the tool to me.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Picked this little weirdo 5 1/4 up today. Has a newer tote and knob on it, they are terrible. As you can see it has a big chip out of the side but it shouldn t effect usability. Has B.OF.E (board of education) stamped into the side and 245 stamped on the iron (classroom number?).I think that s neat! It will get type 18 wood to replace the ones on it and made into a user. One step closer to a full set! Still have a few more to go.
> 
> - Thedustydutchman


As I understand it, the 3-digit numbers stamped in the irons referred to a date. In your case, 245 equates to the second quarter of 1945. It seems that this practice was only done for a few years, approximately 1939-1945, but I may be wrong about that.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Well thats interesting! I might have to look into that


----------



## theoldfart

Well, J Bode is selling this plow plane, just $30k!

https://www.jimbodetools.com/collections/whats-new/products/unheard-of-ohio-tool-co-no-113-solid-ebony-plow-plane-ca-1869-1893-excelsior-102493


----------



## RWE

Got the Fulton block plane (Christmas swap) put together and tested. It is I believe a rebranded Sargent 306. Has 306 stamped in there somewhere.

I have a Stanley 60 1/2 low angle, a Keen Kutter Low angle and now this Fulton/Sargent low angle block.

Got two more planes to go, but they need work on the lumber first.

I think I am going to like this fellow. Always want the adjustable mouth in a block. Iron is in great shape.

I love the 60 1/2 and this is the same thing just bigger.


----------



## bandit571

Yes, that was a date code, used during the "War Years"...
Random plane picture…









Getting the box's bottom to match the sides…


----------



## corelz125

RWE sargent stamped the numbers on the lever cap of the block planes. Thats where the 306 most likely is.


----------



## bandit571

The only difference between a #306 and a #307….the 307 had a longer body….but both took the same lever cap, so Sargent stamped both numbers there…same with a #409 and a #414….you are liable to find both numbers stamped…usually it is just the #409 used….usually under the frog.


----------



## RWE

> RWE sargent stamped the numbers on the lever cap of the block planes. Thats where the 306 most likely is.
> 
> - corelz125


*Looks like Bandit was reading my mind. His post preceded this by seconds.*

I just can't remember anything from the shop by the time I get in the house. Memory is not what it used to be. I had noted it but did not note where.

It is under the lever cap and it has 307 and 306. I assume there was some feature difference between the two but the lever cap fit both? Calling Don W.

Happy to have another Sargent in the arsenal.

That 30k plane is fantastic, but I don't think it is 30k fantastic.


----------



## Mosquito

> Well, J Bode is selling this plow plane, just $30k!
> 
> https://www.jimbodetools.com/collections/whats-new/products/unheard-of-ohio-tool-co-no-113-solid-ebony-plow-plane-ca-1869-1893-excelsior-102493
> 
> - theoldfart


Good thing I'm not in to wooden plows


----------



## DevinT

That plane is $30k because of the combination of 3-arm bridle arrangement, materials, and condition. Nobody would ever buy it to use it. Copies have been made but not quite the same as the original. Copies go for $3k+ easily that I have seen. I happen to think the 3-arm plows are all very well made. I am working on copying the Chapin-Rust 3-arm plow fence mechanism on a couple tools of my own. Will report back if they are any good (I certainly won't spend the money for one but will spend the time to appropriate one to try it out).


----------



## RWE

Ok. It seems that you measure the side of the plane to determine the length, not the center line. The Fulton is 6.25 on the center line, but 6 inches on the side. That makes it a 306.
Made From 1887 to 1953. I suspect mine is a 40's 50's model by condition, but would have to check Sears to see when they sold Sargent/Fultons.

Seems it was a very popular plane in the day:

According to David E. Heckel's "Sargent Planes Identification And Value Guide - Second Edition" (page 36) the Sargent Nos. 306 and 307 were probably among the biggest sellers in the Sargent line of block planes. They were available over a longer period, and the body style was the inspiration for almost 20 other models, including the #316, #317, #606, #607, #1206, #1207, #1216, #1217, #1306, #1307, #1316, #1317, #1606, #1607, #4306, #5306, #5307 and #5607.

Sargent web site

The KK block is a KK 65 made by Ohio Tools co. Don W. shows one on his site.

So I am spreading the love on block planes, Millers Falls, Ohio Tools, Stanley, Sargent.


----------



## HokieKen

You're preachin' to the choir RWE, I love block planes. I have several and never feel like it's too many 

Kev's just taunting us with that Ohio plow plane. He knows he's gonna buy it.


----------



## DevinT

Why spend $30,000 when you can spend $300


----------



## RWE

> You re preachin to the choir RWE, I love block planes. I have several and never feel like it s too many
> 
> Kev s just taunting us with that Ohio plow plane. He knows he s gonna buy it.
> 
> - HokieKen


The most important point in all of this is that "I am not a collector". I use all of the 30 plus planes, 30 plus handsaws and 30 plus chisels. Just don't use them that often. I take pride in knowing I am not a collector and that some of you folks here are. LOL

I really do use all the block planes with fair frequency.


----------



## HokieKen

> I ve had Eze-Lap diamond plates for quite a few years now, 7 maybe? I ve been happy. Little smaller than the Dmt Duo-Sharp plates I had before, but I didn t like the holes
> 
> - Mosquito


I agree, I don't really like the plates that have the holes in them. I've never owned one but I've used one and didn't care for it for some reason. I use the Dia-Sharp plates that are one continuous abrasive surface.


----------



## bandit571

Why spend $300, when you can spend $16….









Made in 1864, in Cincinnati, OH…by G. Roseboom…


----------



## bandit571

Block planes?









No love for the Cordovians?


----------



## DevinT

*bandit* Very nice.

Of course, you are (as usual) absolutely right. The Jack-handled dual wedge-arm Yankee plow gets the job done.


----------



## bigblockyeti

> Well, J Bode is selling this plow plane, just $30k!
> 
> https://www.jimbodetools.com/collections/whats-new/products/unheard-of-ohio-tool-co-no-113-solid-ebony-plow-plane-ca-1869-1893-excelsior-102493
> 
> - theoldfart


Is that alot? I know very little about wooden planes but it seems pricey, then again I have been instructed to lower my expectations so maybe it is a good deal?


----------



## theoldfart

Devin, I like that bridle plow. Search out Summerfi's Swan plow, it's a beauty.



BBY, not if you consider only three are known and Bodes is supposedly the best. Granted his prices are In the premium range most of the time. I would get that a private sale would be somewhat less.


----------



## RWE

I have a question for anyone that wishes to give an opinion.

I am working on two planes, down to the knob and totes. Can you give your favorite type of finishing?

I read Sansoo's blog and he does wipe on poly. I used to do a very thin BLO with Denatured Alcohol. Now I am not sure what is best. I have used shellac a lot on boxes recently. Used to do Lacquer on the boxes, but the spray can of Shellac worked very well.

Today I used some old Watco Danish Oil to add some color and may have messed up a bit since the Oil was old and had gotten too thick. Got to let it dry and sand it down.

I have used stain on plane "lumber" that I had sanded down do far as to lose a lot of color.

My inclination is to go with stain when needed and to give the spray Shellac a try for the top coat. My theory is that you can sand and reapply the Shellac down the road, very easily and it will meld together (recatalyze is the term I think).

Now I know that no one here has a strong opinion about any of this. So fire away. Maybe I should do the wipe on Poly, just never have used it.

What is your go to method. Details please.


----------



## corelz125

I like the spray can lacquer. Quick, fast, and easy. Wipe on poly takes a lot of coats to buld up a good finish that will take a beating.


----------



## Lazyman

I like the spray can lacquer for quick application and durability. I think that it may be like shellac in that reapplication will melt into to the old finish. I also like Tried and True varnish oil for a less shiny finish that just feels nice. It is my go-to finish for most tool handles. It doesn't provide as much protection as the lacquer but it too can be reapplied without stripping as long as you clean off any grime with mineral spirits first. It definitely takes longer to build up a finish than the lacquer does. Last year I restored a Fulton plane that had a apparently originally been stained brown and after sanding off the old finish, it was pretty boring. I used dark walnut and red Transtint dye to give it a richer color before spraying on the lacquer.


----------



## bandit571

Have to be careful with those Rosewood handles….as any kind of oil finish will turn them a dark black colour…I just use a couple coats of shellac…..non-Rosewood handles usually get a brush on coat of 3in1 oil…









Brush on a decent coat…then wipe and buff with a rag….


----------



## donwilwol

If it's a plane for me, I use tru-oil. For quick and easy I like Rust-Oleum spray lacquer.


----------



## HokieKen

I used to go with a BLO/MS/Poly mix but on the last one I did, I did a French polish and I really like the look and feel of it. It was anything but quick though… I plan to try wipe-on Poly on the next one because I really like how Sansoo's look when he's done with them. Again though, his process isn't a quick one.


----------



## HokieKen

Price is steep but I'm still a little tempted.


----------



## RWE

> Price is steep but I m still a little tempted.
> 
> - HokieKen


Jump on it. Seems like a great thing to have in your shop. Early birthday of something.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> Price is steep but I m still a little tempted.
> 
> - HokieKen


Dude $70 is nothing for something you can't get many places. You would be the guy that appreciates it.


----------



## drsurfrat

Oooo, it lights up Purdy.

Yea 70 is step, but it would be something I kicked myself over later for not getting it.


----------



## corelz125

Take a look at it. Might take $50 for it. What's that saying you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.


----------



## RWE

Got the $12 Union #6 "commissioned" today. On the Carving forum, when you get a new chisel sharpened, they say you commissioned it. So I guess that would work for a plane.

I made an idiot of myself when I posted about this after picking it up at a Flea Mall. I saw no dates or marks in the bed and was sure it was a very early Stanley. Never noticed the twisted lateral adjuster. Anyway, I have another #6 at a great price and it was a chance to do more of a Sansoo type of commisioning. I did more sanding and I actually never did it by hand previously. 3 Coats of Engine Enamel, baked at 150, 175, 200 an hour each time.

You can compare and contrast with the other 2 #6's that I did previously. I always like patina. I wanted an old plane to look old, just work well. Now I am confused. What to do?

Union in foreground, Rockford R6 center, early Stanley at back:










Interesting iron in the Union. Tapered to a thick bottom. Anvil Trademark:










Solo shots: (I will have to get a better sandblasting system to get the body smoother, but the paint did bake down and flow better, just some defects that did not get cleaned up during the sandblasting)

Went with Medium Walnut Watco Danish Oil, one coat. Then three coats of spray Shellac. I believe the wood is Mahogany on Unions.


















Crazy thing is I don't even like a #6. I do like finding and restoring planes however. I am not a collector!


----------



## HokieKen

If it was closer I would go look. But it's about 80 miles away. If it was the older triangle logo, I definitely would anyway. But that one just doesn't have much soul for some reason.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Crazy talk. You need that sign…


----------



## Lazyman

I would ask him if he will meet you half way. Bad etiquette to ask for a lower price too but it will save you gas and time.


----------



## corelz125

Kenny I know you dislike bronze how about brass?


----------



## HokieKen

That a copy somebody cast off a 71 1/2 Corelz? For some reason, it doesn't look bad with patina on a router plane.


----------



## corelz125

Yep it's all brass. The letters are a little blury from the casting. It's a good copy though


----------



## terryR

I like the brass router.

Also like the #6, RWE. Hey, they don't all have to look the same. Just loved.










^Brass, Steel, Madagascar Rosewood. Iron is O1 bedded at 20 degrees, 1.25" wide.


----------



## corelz125

That's alot fancier brass you have there Terry than the router


----------



## Ocelot

Well I caught up.


----------



## HokieKen

TR that's looking great! Are these planes you're making to be sold or are they personal users?

Corelz, I could see a brass router actually being an advantage for me because it's heavier than cast iron. I've pondered making a really beefy router before for inlay work so all I have to do is "drive" and not have to worry about keeping it pushed down in the cut. Inlay type work is almost exclusively what I use a router plane for.


----------



## HokieKen

So a while back I bought a Millers Falls made Fulton 3708 (#2 size). So I already bought a 1 3/4" lever cap I'm going to mill down to fit it and I plan to make new Cocobolo furniture for it. At that point, it will be identical to MF #7 other than the model number engraved on the side and the blade. But there is a genuine MF#7 blade on Ebay for an opening bid of $50 OBO. It's been listed and relisted for a couple of months and I've made an offer 3 or 4 times being rejected every time. I think my last offer was $30 which is a fair price IMO. But, am I going to regret having this pseudo number 7 where the only visual cue (ignoring the model number) that will stand out from the rest of the till is the blade without the MF logo? Am I being cheap by thinking $30+shipping is a fair offer? The seller says it appears to be NOS and it does look to be pretty close to full length.

Just curious if y'all think the higher price is fair and I'm just being a cheap-ass? And am I being silly wanting a MF iron in a Fulton plane anyway?


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Hand Plane things that make you go, 
Hmm….....

Rare case of TWO Stanley Bedrock 5-1/4 planes on fleabay right now. 
(items 115278453435 & 325089532708)
There are two bidders with same anonymous codes hammering bids against each other on both listings.
The one ending in ~1 hour has a lower price, than one ending in ~3 days?
Must be a couple of auction amateurs? Don't they know it is silly to drive price up until the last 1 minute?

There is more:
Current bid price is in the normal selling range for this rare plane, but have seen best examples go over $750 recently. There are over 30 people watching these auctions. If I were a gambling man, bet some snipe bidder will to show up last minute and deny both of them the privilege of buying either plane. 
I already have a 5-1/4 Bedrock in my shop.

Best luck bidders.

Update - oh look they drove the price up over $800? Wow. Desperate folks.


----------



## corelz125

It doesn't hurt to make an offer but after being shot down after the 1st time I would go more. I would try $40. The cost of shipping and added tax sucks now. A offer of 50% of my original price I deny every time.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah I'm usually pretty good about being careful not to lowball people with offers Corelz. But like I said, I think $30 (40+ after shipping and tax) is fair. And the fact that he's relisted so many times indicates that he's over-priced. And the more I think about it, it's a T1 iron so it doesn't have the size stamped on it. So in reality I could get a 1.75" iron which are more common and grind a little off the sides and it would look the same….

I think I'll just bump it off my watchlist and forget I ever saw it. It'll be quite a while before I get around to making a new knob and tote anyway and I still need to sandblast and paint it. So I'm not in a rush.


----------



## corelz125

If it's a must have then I would pay but if it's not then I would let it go.


----------



## Lazyman

Maybe if I offer him less, he will starting thinking that $30+ST is a fair price. *Or *you could just sell me your Fulton for what you paid and put the extra $50+ towards one with the correct engraving on the side.


----------



## DevinT

Two schools of thought here.

You are putting a price on your happiness. That price is the difference between your offer and the buy it now price. What is the level of discomfort? Foregoing 3 cups of coffee? 2 packs of cigs? 2.5 bottles of beer? Skipping a couple breakfasts? What thing cost $20 that gives you less pleasure than having the blade in your hands and the tool becoming usable?

When I bought my Roubo frame saw, I contacted the seller and told them I wanted it but was not willing to pay the high shipping. I waited 6 months, and eventually the shipping came down and I bought it. Since I didn't need it for a project and not having it wasn't holding anything up, it was win-win (seller got rid of the item, I got it for a reasonable price, and the 6 months didn't hurt anything).

That being said, passing on it will lead to one of many things:

1. It disappears and another appears at a higher cost and you kick yourself

2. It disappears and another appears at a lower cost but lower quality

3. It disappears and no other appears and you are out of luck

4. It disappears and it is months before one appears and then you know to pounce on it (see number 1 and 2 above; could be higher price, could be lower quality, or any combination thereof).

5. It remains available and no other appears in as good quality

6. It remains available and another one in good quality at lower cost appears and you win

7. It remains available and another one or more at lower quality or higher cost appear and you decide to finally bite the bullet

I think the number of situations where you make out are in the minority.

I would just find some way to lessen the pain and bite the bullet.


----------



## DevinT

I paid $65 for a NOS No 8 Type 11 blade. I've never seen one higher quality since. Very glad I bit the bullet on that one. The blade will out-live me, lots of iron left. Could I have haggled it down? Sure, but it is essentially a durable good that will take decades to use up. Considering I will be able to pass it on to my children who probably still won't use up the iron in their lifetime either, haggling over $20 seems silly.


----------



## DevinT

> Maybe if I offer him less, he will starting thinking that $30+ST is a fair price. *Or *you could just sell me your Fulton for what you paid and put the extra $50+ towards one with the correct engraving on the side.
> 
> - Lazyman


Hah! I don't see the harm. It's not like he can prevent you from taking the Buy It Now whenever you want.

You could offer him $1 less, wait a week, then $2 less, wait a week, … he might bite sooner than you know it 

FOMO (fear of missing out) is a powerful tool


----------



## Mosquito

Kenny, what are the chances it'll cost you more than $20 to sell your pseudo #7 to upgrade to a real one with the right iron?

That would be my answer  Were your offers rejected immediately, or did the seller actually reject them? My bet would be that they put OBO on there to entice offers higher than the opening bid, and set a "reject offers lower than" of $50


----------



## terryR

Kenny, I'm still learning, so this one has gaps in the dovetails d/t hard brass and inadequate annealing. So, I'll probably keep it for my shop. The others are for sale! (others=1) Funny, how Devin's 7 pointers also apply to my plane pricing. Bottom line is buy it now.

LOL


----------



## Mosquito

> Maybe if I offer him less, he will starting thinking that $30+ST is a fair price. *Or *you could just sell me your Fulton for what you paid and put the extra $50+ towards one with the correct engraving on the side.
> 
> - Lazyman
> 
> Hah! I don't see the harm. It's not like he can prevent you from taking the Buy It Now whenever you want.
> 
> You could offer him $1 less, wait a week, then $2 less, wait a week, … he might bite sooner than you know it
> 
> FOMO (fear of missing out) is a powerful tool
> 
> - DevinT


There is on BIN, it's bid or best offer.

And I believe eBay still has a max number of offers of 4


----------



## HokieKen

No, seller rejected my offers himself. On the last one, he made a counteroffer that was lower than the opening bid but not low enough. And IF I ever upgrade to a true #7, it'll cost me a load more than $20. However I doubt the iron would have any affect on the selling price of the Fulton if/when it's time to sell it. I'm kinda hoping I'll stumble on a body for a #7 at some point at a reasonable price. But in all truth, I'll probably end up living with the pseudo version forever 

I think I'm gonna let it pass one more time with no bids and when it gets relisted again I'll make another offer.


----------



## HokieKen

There is a max number of offers but it resets every time he relists it.


----------



## Mosquito

true, I should have specified that, max of 4 per listing.

At least there's hope if the seller rejected them, and made a counter


----------



## bandit571

A "Before"...









The lid had gaps…..even the ends..









Opposite corners were high…so..the "After" 









That Millers Falls No.8, Type 2 leveled the playing field…


----------



## ElizabethL

Today is my birthday, and I got myself a present: a Stanley boxwood marking gauge that appears to be barely used and well-loved but eminently functional Stanley 71 router plane.

I'll be pouring over this thread for tips on how to restore it to glory. Super excited!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Congrats, Elizabeth!


----------



## RWE

Got the Stanley Defiance 1243 put together today. I have had it stripped down for two or three years, so getting it back together is a big deal. I may have another go at the wood, needs to be dyed a burgundy red. I tried Watco Danish Oil, cherry, but it did not stain the wood enough.

Planes ok. It will go on the shelf of "deplorables".










Has two posts built in instead of a frog. Bandit showed one in this thread a while back.


----------



## RWE

> Today is my birthday, and I got myself a present: a Stanley boxwood marking gauge that appears to be barely used and well-loved but eminently functional Stanley 71 router plane.
> 
> I ll be pouring over this thread for tips on how to restore it to glory. Super excited!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - ElizabethL


Congrats. I have a #71 also. I like that it is flat all around. Have fun with the restoration.


----------



## drsurfrat

> Today is my birthday, and I got myself a present: a Stanley boxwood marking gauge that appears to be barely used and well-loved but eminently functional Stanley 71 router plane.
> 
> I ll be pouring over this thread for tips on how to restore it to glory. Super excited!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - ElizabethL


You pick good birthday presents. It looks like its is a 1884-85 era if there is a patent in the ring. Personally I would do very little to refurbish it; leave the japanning and patina.

From Patrick Leach's site
The plane underwent many modifications during its production by Stanley. The first of which was arching the portion of the sole, forward of the cutter, into an open throat configuration. This was done ca. 1890. Then, probably during the mid-1890's, a mechanism to close the throat's opening was added so that the plane could work narrow surfaces, like grooving the edge of a board, to add lateral stability to the tool.

The knobs on yours look like a very early version.

From Walter's 1996


----------



## corelz125

Nice router plane Elizbeth. There's not much to them. Looks like the cutter is in some what good shape


----------



## ElizabethL

I was wondering if I should keep the japanning. I'll definitely do so. I scrubbed it enough to get the dust off, and I'll stop there. The bottom had very little rust. A little vinegar cleaned it right up. I think the cutter just needs sharpening.

1884. Incredible. Imagine all the hands it passed through. That's 138 years-how many of our new tools will still be operational and desirable in (checking calculator) 2160?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Plus 1 for what Mike (near Boston) wrote. That looks like one of the very early ones. That's a beauty!


----------



## corelz125

RWE the furniture on that Defiance looks good. Are you trying for the original red they had?


----------



## RWE

I've got to do some research on router planes. I have the 71 1/2 model. I picked it up several years ago at Edward Lebetkin's shop above the Roy Underhill class/shop in Pittsboro NC.

I thought a 71 had the round/curved section in front of the cutting location and the 71 1/2 was the flat variation. Obviously, there were flat 71's as well. Live and learn.

I don't know if Ed is still in business or not, but boy that was a fun place to shop.

If you are new to the thread Elizabeth, you might not have seen posts about being able to use Lee Valley router plane irons in Stanley planes. I think you have to flip the adjuster nut to be able to match up with the slot in the Lee Valley irons. There are various shapes, triangular, flat, narrow etc. So if you become a routerholic, you may want those. Congratulations again on a great find.

My 71 1/2


----------



## RWE

I've got to do some research on router planes. I have the 71 1/2 model. I picked it up several years ago at Edward Lebetkin's shop above the Roy Underhill class/shop in Pittsboro NC.

I thought a 71 had the round/curved section in front of the cutting location and the 71 1/2 was the flat variation. Obviously, there were flat 71's as well. Live and learn.

I don't know if Ed is still in business or not, but boy that was a fun place to shop.

If you are new to the thread Elizabeth, you might not have seen posts about being able to use Lee Valley router plane irons in Stanley planes. I think you have to flip the adjuster nut to be able to match up with the slot in the Lee Valley irons. There are various shapes, triangular, flat, narrow etc. So if you become a routerholic, you may want those. Congratulations again on a great find.

My 71 1/2


----------



## RWE

> RWE the furniture on that Defiance looks good. Are you trying for the original red they had?
> 
> - corelz125


Pardon the double post??

I was trying but failed. I lost patience I guess. I tried the Cherry Watco Danish oil that I had laying around. I had purchased some dye on Amazon, but I seem to have filed it away somewhere that is very safe and secure, because I cannot locate it. LOL

I may give it another go, but I looked at pictures of a Defiance on Ebay and boy it was like paint, very red, not much grain showing. I wanted it to look the part, but the lumber will have to get another attempt. It is hitting in the ball park now, but if you go on Ebay you will see how bad I missed.

I do think my Defiance is an earlier model. The one on Ebay has rough metal sides, flater tote. I suspect that was one of the last ones made . They were made from 1940-1962 and I bet the Ebay one is a 60's model.


----------



## DevinT

I've been told that if you like router planes, you'll want to add a hinge butt mortise plane to your arsenal as it is essentially a router plane that allows you to get up along the edge of something. So I am told.


----------



## corelz125

I had one or two of the Defiance planes with the red handle and defiance written on the tote. You're right you can't see any grain. It seemed more like an enamel than a stain. The Defiance bench planes aren't really great planes so I wouldn't worry about it looking original


----------



## bandit571

On the Defiance handles….the ones I have had, that red goes all the way through to the holes for the bolts..

Ain't nothing on a Defiance that can be traded with other Stanley planes….

That "red" is almost like Stanley soaked the wood in ATF….in a pressure cooker…then added a final finish over that. Even smells funny, when you go to strip the colour…or, at least try….tain't coming back out.


----------



## RWE

> I had one or two of the Defiance planes with the red handle and defiance written on the tote. You re right you can t see any grain. It seemed more like an enamel than a stain. The Defiance bench planes aren t really great planes so I wouldn t worry about it looking original
> 
> - corelz125





> On the Defiance handles….the ones I have had, that red goes all the way through to the holes for the bolts..
> 
> Ain t nothing on a Defiance that can be traded with other Stanley planes….
> 
> That "red" is almost like Stanley soaked the wood in ATF….in a pressure cooker…then added a final finish over that. Even smells funny, when you go to strip the colour…or, at least try….tain t coming back out.
> 
> - bandit571


The Defiance is going to live on the shelf of the "Deplorables", Victor, Millers Falls 300, Dunlap (probably an ok plane) Corsair (terrible) and a bunch of colorful Handyman type block planes. I may wind up painting the lumber just to make it look ugly. I actually like the look of the plane as a whole, but I will take your word for that it is not a good user. I have several #3 sized planes that are nice so I would never use it.

I am just a nut over odd planes.


----------



## ElizabethL

RWE, thanks for the info! I was thinking a few other cutter sizes would be handy.


----------



## bandit571

Mine is a #3 size..









Depth adjuster is Steel…









Might make a decent scrub plane?


----------



## RWE

I think your plane and mine are earlier models. The depth adjuster on mine is steel also.

Both have a more rounded (hence older) style of tote. Now that I look at your pictures, you are probably earlier than mine, 40's for you, late 40's/50's for mine and the one I linked on Ebay above has to be one of the 60's models.

The world is rapidly going to hell and a handbasket. If you don't believe it, study the rapid descent in the quality of plane totes. Flat sides and paint, how will we ever survive. It is the Zombie Apocalypse starting and it all began with handplanes.


----------



## corelz125

I guess then the Defiance would be the first one to use to kill zombies with


----------



## DevinT

Probably not a $7000 draw knife, that's for sure!


----------



## RWE

You might get one Zombie with a Defiance (love the name anyway) and it would crack and disintegrate. You would have to hope that Kenny is nearby and could beat them off with a Buck Rogers. Anyway, I am not too worried. Zombies want to eat brain, my brain is pretty much gone. Zombies would not even notice me.


----------



## 33706

I like Defiance planes, with the angled blade-height adjustment knob. Just their uniqueness appeals to me.


----------



## BlasterStumps

It's only 9:59 PM so it's not too late to wish ElizabethL a Happy Birthday. *Happy Birthday* ElizabethL !!


----------



## ElizabethL

> It s only 9:59 PM so it s not too late to wish ElizabethL a Happy Birthday. *Happy Birthday* ElizabethL !!
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Thank you so much! I think I'm really going to enjoy being 26* years old!


Years are an estimate only and may be off by a quarter century, based on the declining eyesight and increasing hip pain observed.


----------



## RWE

> It s only 9:59 PM so it s not too late to wish ElizabethL a Happy Birthday. *Happy Birthday* ElizabethL !!
> 
> - BlasterStumps
> 
> Thank you so much! I think I m really going to enjoy being 26* years old!
> 
> 
> Years are an estimate only and may be off by a quarter century, based on the declining eyesight and increasing hip pain observed.
> 
> - ElizabethL


With that new router, there is always the issue of sharpening the iron. This is a good review of the issues involved:

Paul Seller on sharpening a router iron

Buying a new iron on Lee Valley would get you past the issues that Paul shows. You can also happen over the irons on Ebay. But getting a router iron sharpened is a pretty daunting task and the trick that Paul shows using a board in the vise to raise the router iron so that you sharpen a micro bevel is a great technique. If you don't have the narrow diamond stones like he shows, they are available at Woodcraft. You could also get by with sandpaper glued to a thin length of hardwood.

I found myself worrying about you needing to sharpen that iron and then maybe messing it up. Not sure what your experience level is, but there are a lot of YouTube videos on "sharpening a router plane iron" that you can study.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

If the cutter isn't completely hosed, try sharpening before filing.


----------



## ElizabethL

Your advice about sharpening comes at a good time, since I'm working on the plane today. I got the back (bottom?) flat without too much trouble, but I am feeling perplexed by the blade. I will take myself to YouTube and the Sellers video!

And if I find myself at a loss, I'll head to the Lee Valley site.


----------



## RWE

If your iron is flat and co-planar with the sole, all you have to do is worry about sharpening the "top" of the iron. Sharpening is about accuracy and repeatability. What Paul shows is how to deal with the "top" of the iron and get a very sharp micro-bevel. On router planes, you want the "bottom" of the iron completely flat, and the top edge only should then be sharpened. Never put a bevel on the bottom side.

Watch the video. Do the same test, if you are co-planar and the iron cuts both sides of your wood equally, then all you have to do is get the top sharp. Unless someone butchered the iron, it is probably co-planar.

Paul shows how to set up a small diamond plate to deal with the accuracy issue. He has longer plates than I do, but the only issue is how high up in the vise do you have to mount the board to hold the router iron. So shorter plates like mine and like linked below will work.

What you have to have are some small sized diamond plates. Woodcraft or Amazon


----------



## controlfreak

High Elizabeth,

RWE is correct, sharpening or creating a bevel on the bottom is like putting a bevel on the flat side of a chisel.


----------



## ElizabethL

I didn't sharpen the bottom, just made sure it was flat and free from rust, as I would with a chisel. It was in good shape to start with, thankfully. Next step is run Paul's step for the co-planar thing.


----------



## corelz125

The 1/4" and pointed ones a real pain to sharpen


----------



## RWE

Elizabeth:

Once you get the router sharp, it is mandatory that you build some shelves where you saw lines for a dado, custom fit each board/shelf dado to that board. You must saw two lines, use chisels to clean out the waste and then use the router plane to finish up and smooth out the bottom of the hand saw cut dados.

I kid of course, but if you are not a Paul Sellers fan, you can see all of that on his web site. I have not done that yet but I do use his technique for using the router to perfect tenons. He will cut the tenon wall with a hand saw, and then the cheek, staying away form the line, or he will split the wood away with a chisel, and then use the router to perfect the face of the tenon. Better to watch than for me to try to explain.

Point is, there are a lot of practical uses for that router.

Have fun.


----------



## ElizabethL

Well, I don't want to violate tradition! I will duly watch the videos and go forth and fit shelves.

I agree with everyone who has said sharpening the 1/4 cutter is a PAIN. I was actually relieved when I had to stop and make dinner.


----------



## controlfreak

When I was curious about hand tool woodworking I watched Paul Sellers use his "cordless router" and had to get one. It is a Stanley 71 or 71 1/2, I can't remember which is the flat front version. Mostly used it to true up tenons but I only had one cutter. When I had some extra Birthday money I splurged on a Veritas large router plane that comes in a wood box with all the cutters as a set. It lives outside the box more than in it. I am finding more uses for the narrow blades on my latest project. May need to get the medium version next.


----------



## HokieKen

I have the Veritas spear-point blade in my 71 and don't remember the last time I used a different cutter. I use it almost exclusively for inlay and other pockets.


----------



## Lazyman

So is the spear point intended for getting into corners?


----------



## bandit571

It do come in handy…


















Like in a stopped dado, to level the floor of the dado…...Type 5, Stanley No. 71-1/2


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I have the Veritas spear-point blade in my 71 and don't remember the last time I used a different cutter. I use it almost exclusively for inlay and other pockets.
> 
> - HokieKen


Me too. Okay, not the inlay part. ;-)



> So is the spear point intended for getting into corners?
> 
> - Lazyman


That, too.

I find that I get cleaner slicing (skew) cuts across the grain regardless of whether I skew the base of the router plane and move it side-to-side or hold it square and move it front-to-back,










Overall, I just find it more versatile.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, what Kent said ;-)


----------



## corelz125

I have this router plane with a w on it. I don't think it's a winchester any other ideas of the maker?


----------



## controlfreak

> I have this router plane with a w on it. I don t think it s a winchester any other ideas of the maker?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - corelz125


The "W" is for a western grip on the handles, don't you know anything about router planes?


----------



## bandit571

"Worth" by PEXTO ?


----------



## HokieKen

How do you know it's not an M? ;-)


----------



## corelz125

I like the W better than the M. Could be either one just like Keen Kutter or King Kenny? Bandit says it's pexto made. I'll go with that.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> If your iron is flat and co-planar with the sole, all you have to do is worry about sharpening the "top" of the iron. Sharpening is about accuracy and repeatability. What Paul shows is how to deal with the "top" of the iron and get a very sharp micro-bevel. On router planes, you want the "bottom" of the iron completely flat, and the top edge only should then be sharpened. Never put a bevel on the bottom side.
> - RWE


Just to clarify - the bottom should be flat, but not level with the sole - the cutting edge needs to be lower than the back, doesn't need to be much, just a few degrees is fine.


----------



## 33706

"Woden" of Birmingham, England, made a line of router planes.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> "Woden" of Birmingham, England, made a line of router planes.
> 
> - poopiekat


Never seen them or W.S. just use a W as a stamp though?

Edit - possible they just dropped the S during the sell-off though, the W looks about right.


----------



## corelz125

So far didn't find any Pexto router planes. Not much info on WS router planes. Just they made an A71 router plane but that one has the WS Birmingham England on it. Just as soon as I type in router plane 1000 Stanley's show up.


----------



## KentInOttawa

I stepped onto a very slippery slope this week.










There are 19 H&Rs in there. but not a full set. There are another 14 moulding planes and 2 skew rebate planes. I can see some cleaning and sharpening coming up, not to mention a few more H&Rs to fill out the set.


----------



## theoldfart

Now that's an impressive acquisition. Same maker on all?


----------



## KentInOttawa

Nope. It's a real mixed bag of tricks. There are some Marples and E. Preston & Sons, but most are by makers unknown to me. There's even one plane from Germany, although I can't recall which one it is right now. As I clean and sharpen them, I'll also be making a small sample cut with each. That'll really help with the H&Rs since several of them aren't marked with their sizes and a couple seem suspect to me now.


----------



## 33706

> Nope. It s a real mixed bag of tricks. There are some Marples and E. Preston & Sons, but most are by makers unknown to me. There s even one plane from Germany, although I can t recall which one it is right now. As I clean and sharpen them, I ll also be making a small sample cut with each. That ll really help with the H&Rs since several of them aren t marked with their sizes and a couple seem suspect to me now.
> 
> - Kent


Great Collection! All mine came to me at an agonizingly slow pace, but it can be done!
I just finally got all of my H&Rs into a cabinet, away from the dust. I've patched together a complete set, from various British makers and some from Roxton Pond, Quebec (later absorbed by Stanley). Now I see that some I have should be swapped out for ones of better quality. I oughta use them more often!!
Finally, I found legitimate room also for my croze, mule's ear, and stair saws that sometimes get used for kerfing, too. They had been relegated to some dark corner of the workshop.


----------



## KentInOttawa

It's always great to see what else you've got squirrelled away, there, PK.

SWMBO says that cleaning and sharpening these need to wait until I finish my current project. Fortunately, there's a place built for these things in my vintage tool chest. They'll go in there tomorrow morning so that I can use the workbench for its intended purpose.


----------



## BurlyBob

I've got over 50 hand planes and my favorite is still my 4 1/2 Stanley. As much as I love my #2 and my cherished #1 
sweetheart. My 4 1/2 will always be my favorite.


----------



## HokieKen

I hear ya Bob. My Millers Falls #10 (4-1/2 size) is by far my most used plane 

Nice lineups there Kent and PK!


----------



## Lazyman

For some reason I tend to gravitate to my MF #5 first and the Lakeside #3 second. Of course I don't have a 4-1/2 (yet).


----------



## HokieKen

Millers Falls didn't make a #5 bench plane Nathan. That's a 14. That's almost 3X better than a Stanley ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

Somehow I knew you would say that. You are nothing if not predictable. 

EDIT to add: Immediately after posting that I wondered if I should fix it but then decided. Nah. Kenny will fix it for me.


----------



## rad457

Around my shop the "Winchester's" kinda keeps dem other planes in there places 
I usually grab the users under the bench that all have PMV-11 irons, even the Sargent #407! 
(and the Stanley 60 1/2)


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Fortunately, there s a place built for these things in my vintage tool chest. They'll go in there tomorrow morning so that I can use the workbench for its intended purpose.


My vintage tool chest has a place designed just for planes like these, so I worked on fitting all the pieces of the puzzle together this morning. A couple of them were about 1/16-1/2" too long to fit where I really wanted them, so some adjustment to the storage location was in order. Everything just fits, now.



















Now that I can see more of my bench, I can get back to work on my project.


----------



## 33706

Looking good, Kent!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Spent my morning sharpening and tuning the planes I have in the tool well on the bench. Glad to have that done. Might take the No 3 out of there though. Not a lot of use for it for the most part.


----------



## HokieKen

I need a thumbscrew that goes into the main body to lock the depth attachment on a 71 router plane. It's a 1/4-28 thread. Anybody got a spare they want to sell? I can make something up but thought I'd see about finding an original first. So if you have an extra, lemme know


----------



## bandit571

Would the Thumbscrews for a Stanley No. 45 fit? IF so, I have a couple…as I went with slotted screws on my 45…main stock where it holds the rods.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep those are the same size Bandit


----------



## bandit571

Yep, have one the right length, I think….can mail it out Monday


----------



## HokieKen

Much appreciated Bandit! No hurry, whenever you get a chance


----------



## DevinT

I have seen some silly sellers do some pretty funny things with wedges, like insert them upside down before taking pictures …










But this one takes the cake …


----------



## theoldfart

Oh, that's just a radical skew plane!


----------



## HokieKen

LOL. That's even better than miter saws cutting the wrong direction ;-)


----------



## controlfreak

> Millers Falls didn't make a #5 bench plane Nathan. That's a 14. That's almost 3X better than a Stanley ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


I was like, wait for it…wait for it…


----------



## DevinT

> Millers Falls didn't make a #5 bench plane Nathan. That's a 14. That's almost 3X better than a Stanley ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> I was like, wait for it…wait for it…
> 
> - controlfreak


LOL!

Hahaha, until you said that, I was all …

Well, the castings ARE like 3X greater, and they have those ribs under the knob, and …

And then you said "wait for it" and I got it. LoL


----------



## bandit571

Millers Falls No. 14..type 2 and type 4….compared to a No. 8









Which is a #3 size. "Mutt & Jeff"?


----------



## KentInOttawa

> - DevinT


The Wedge: The simplest tool known to man. And still…


----------



## DanKrager

Bagover¹ planes are not too uncommon. I don't like the looks of this but it sure is comfortable to hold. Seems very natural to me and adds a great deal of control. Can take this item off the bucket list now.



















DanK

¹ Bagover is how you conceal UGLEEE!


----------



## HokieKen

Bagovers are also known as Handyman Dan ;-)


----------



## Sylvain

Nicely done


> I don't like the looks of this but it sure is comfortable to hold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Dan Krager


Might be useful if one puts a cambered iron into a #78 to use it as a scrub plane, but not so much for rebate making.
One has to exercise a lateral pressure with the left hand.
Although, it might be handy when working with the left hand on the tote. See 3rd picture here:
https://paulsellers.com/2016/05/rebate-plane-1-closing/

As one can see, the original "button" is vertical. 
See how P.S. uses his left hand thumb when making a rebate. This allows simultaneous vertical and lateral pressure.


----------



## HokieKen

A knob like that one is on my to-do list for my Millers Falls version of the 78. I love the functionality of the plane but it's dang near impossible for me to grip comfortably.


----------



## Notw

This little plane started out it's life as a Stanley No. 101 that I took and transformed into a little baby bench plane, perhaps call it a Stanley No. 0.25. Thank you to Hokie Ken for providing the plane and a guy on eBay for the idea. The knob and handle are walnut like the rest of my planes and the "screws" are 3/16" brass rod with a slit cut in them to make them look like screws. Knob and handle are epoxied to the body.

Original









After



























Riding on the back of my recently finished Stanley No. 8


















Still works to make shavings


----------



## BugeyedEarl

The No. 0.25 is adorable, well done!!


----------



## drsurfrat

That is one of the coolest rebuilds I have seen. And of course it is spotless. Nice work.


----------



## HokieKen

That does look nice Notw! Well done. I've seen those on Ebay before and thought it would be a fun little project. Not sure how much of a user it would be but it should be a good conversation piece ;-)


----------



## corelz125

Next one you have to grind down the top of the cheeks flat. Then it will be a bedrock 0.625


----------



## DevinT

> Next one you have to grind down the top of the cheeks flat. Then it will be a bedrock 0.625
> 
> - corelz125


LoL!


----------



## bandit571

Used for scale purposes…to show the size of 2 boxes…









Stanley No. 18…..ruler is from Starrett, No. 0601…


----------



## Notw

> Next one you have to grind down the top of the cheeks flat. Then it will be a bedrock 0.625
> 
> - corelz125


The one i got the idea from did that, i liked the rounded cheeks better


----------



## HokieKen

I like rounded cheeks better too.


----------



## Notw

> I like rounded cheeks better too.
> 
> - HokieKen


I KNEW you were going to comment on that


----------



## corelz125

But adding a flat top drives the value up at least $100.


----------



## bigblockyeti

> A knob like that one is on my to-do list for my Millers Falls version of the 78. I love the functionality of the plane but it s dang near impossible for me to grip comfortably.
> 
> - HokieKen


You can get an identical newel post & knob at almost any BORG.


----------



## DanKrager

> You can get an identical newel post & knob at almost any BORG.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


Yah, but not in mahogany (or luan) or whatever this is.

DanK


----------



## defrosted

Anyone need a Siegley no 5 with 1893 patent date screw cap screw to complete their collection? Not sure it is worth the $60 the fleatique wants…


----------



## terryR

0.25 is very nice.

Still unpacking my tools and setting up a shop,










Brass miter plane with Rosewood makes lovely shavings,


----------



## DLK

> A knob like that one is on my to-do list for my Millers Falls version of the 78. I love the functionality of the plane but it s dang near impossible for me to grip comfortably.
> 
> - HokieKen


Concerning the knob for filester planes in the comments to the link that Dan posted Paul sellers wrote:

The front knob was not installed to most of the filletster planes and I don't find it useful at all, so if you go for a Stanley or Record minus the front knob you will be just fine.

and a bit later Jack Chidley wrote:

In Woden's (and WS) manuals and marketing, the front knob is for when using the 78 as a smoothing plane. I can't imagine that the 78 would make a good smoother.

So for rebate use I think the knob if you decide to add one should have a different design. A design that would make it comfortable to add lateral pressure. Perhaps a different knob (and iron) when used as a scrub plane. Or a combination that will allow for both operations.


----------



## HokieKen

I use the plane strictly for rabbets Don and can see your point (and Sylvain's) about lateral pressure. I'll certainly keep it in mind whenever I finally get around to making a knob for it. As it is, I just feel awkward trying to use the plane and have a hard time keeping it registered squarely because I just can't seem to get a grip on the dang thing. Which I'm sure is a problem of technique than tool design but nevertheless, it's a problem ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

A week or two ago we had some discussion about "spotting" finishes on planes like on some old Craftsman planes. Devin had been reading about it and was contemplating attempting it IIRC. Well, Don K posted a link to a Clickspring video in another thread this morning. It's one of my favorite YouTube channels and I noticed his two newest videos are about the specialty tools that were traditionally used to create such decorative surface finishes on metals so I thought I'd share. Straight line lathe and Rose Engine.

And I could spend all day watching Chris' videos so if you have any interest in clocks or ancient technology or just like watching how really skilled people make stuff, give him a look  Warning though since this is a woodworking site, he doesn't work with wood very much ;-)


----------



## KentInOttawa

FWIW, I mounted the front knob of my W.S. Birmingham A78 on my Record 778. I think that it is a VAST improvement in both comfort and control.










I need another (one or two) knobs so that I can equip all my 78-ish planes with one. I don't have a lathe and never will, and it will be quite a while before I get around to carving one. Until then, I dread using the plane without the front knob.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…..remember how the old wood bodied planes were held? The ones that had a "strike button" out in front, instead of a knob. Left hand went across the top of the plane, left thumb on the left side of the body, and the 4 fingers gripped the right side…THAT is the grip I use on my Ward's/Stanley No. 78…with the thumb gripping the bed of the bullnose iron. Thumb provide the lateral pressure…palm of the hand pressing down.


----------



## 33706

> FWIW, I mounted the front knob of my W.S. Birmingham A78 on my Record 778. I think that it is a VAST improvement in both comfort and control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I need another (one or two) knobs so that I can equip all my 78-ish planes with one. I don t have a lathe and never will, and it will be quite a while before I get around to carving one. Until then, I dread using the plane without the front knob.
> 
> - Kent


I'm all in favor of the #778, it's such a better design with the fence supported with two rods instead of one. My 78's have all been retired from active duty now, because of the Woden and Record #778s that I now use exclusively wherever I used a #78 before. Working on some front knobs now.


----------



## bandit571

A box is out for delivery, today…actually, a padded envelope….Kenny will need to go and sit by the mailbox…


----------



## HokieKen

Gracias Bandit  My 71 will FINALLY be complete after buying it 4 or 5 years ago


----------



## corelz125

Sargent was way ahead of you guys. They put one on.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah Corelz, I think even having that little cast piece sticking up would be enough to do the job.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I'm all in favor of the #778, it's such a better design with the fence supported with two rods instead of one. My 78 s have all been retired from active duty now, because of the Woden and Record #778s that I now use exclusively wherever I used a #78 before. Working on some front knobs now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - poopiekat


In a perfect world, I would have one with the slotted screws for the fence(like the 778), two screwed-in rods (like the WS Birmingham A78) and a screw-type depth adjuster (like the 778). A front knob of some kind would also be mandatory, but the knob from the WS would be my preference. Oh, and NOT in blue; there's just something about the British blue planes that irks me.










As for the casting on the Sargent, that would be a great improvement over the plain-Jane 78 variants and it wouldn't need to be removed for bullnose operations although I consider the latter to be an insignificant consideration.


----------



## 33706

Kent said, "* Oh, and NOT in blue; there's just something about the British blue planes that irks me."*

Understood! There's the inevitable association with crappy Type #21 Stanley planes, with their own hideous shade of blue paint.


----------



## Sylvain

> and a bit later Jack Chidley wrote:
> 
> In Woden's (and WS) manuals and marketing, the front knob is for when using the 78 as a smoothing plane. I can't imagine that the 78 would make a good smoother.
> - Combo Prof


Reading Paul Sellers, it seems a #78 was used as a jack of all trades:
"As a bevel-down plane pattern type it is generally used by joiners and furniture makers for forming the occasional rebate and especially for cleaning up machine marks from spindle moulders before finish is applied. [...]
The Stanley 78 was one of Stanley's most popular carpentry tools for those hanging and fitting doors and also for refitting sticking doors too. [...] Of course most woodworkers today see them as planes used to form rebates only and not for the tasks I have just described.[...]
You can readily plane end grain as in shoulder lines and such too so don't think you can't because you can. If and when you do it's a good point to sharpen up the blade as this gives pristine results with the least resistance. You can also plane across the face of tenon cheeks too to remove face grain for fitting tenons into mortises and then the bottoms of large and wide housings and dadoes. Very handy. I often use this plane up against and adjacent to the shoulders of tenons on the face grain taking one or two swipes and then completing the outer reaches of the surface of the tenon using my #4 smoothing plane. [...]

*This plane can be an answer for joiners and furniture makers, boat builders, timber framers and several other woodworking trades. Placing it alongside a 1" shoulder plane is not to compare apples with apples,but if you need to start with a plane that does pretty much everything then this is the one to start out with.*_"

And then he found (may 2018) that, with a cambered iron, it could be used as very effective scrub plane.


----------



## HokieKen

Evidently of all the Millers Falls planes I've owned and looked at over the years, I've never see one that still had the original paint!


----------



## Lazyman

They probably meant that it still has the original paint on the bottom of the sole.


----------



## Notw

is it red black and green?


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, red/black/green. And all these years I've been looking at planes obviously repainted by their owners with boring old black! ;-)


----------



## corelz125

Colors of the Pan African flag there Kenny.


----------



## bandit571

Next question…did that bolt fit where it was needed?

Not sure where that Knurled bolt came from, either…


----------



## HokieKen

Sure did Bandit  It was a little snug but I ran a thread file across it and it works a trick now. I didn't try the knurled one but I put it in my parts bin. Somebody around here will need it sooner or later for whatever it fits in ;-)


----------



## DLK

I think they are using the original as a noun means "unusual or eccentric" as in that is sure an original way to re-paint that plane.


----------



## Sylvain

I guess this paint scheme is to discourage tools being taken away by somebody else.


----------



## DevinT

If I repainted a Festool pink, would it keep guys from taking it?


----------



## corelz125

Devin some of my tools have pink paint splatter all over them.


----------



## DevinT

I tend to avoid any tool that is pink from the factory (and in truth don't really even like the color much) because they use the color to market for women and think they can cut corners and sell an inferior product.

Most of the time they are probably right - (some) women demand less from their tools and abuse them less.

There are only 2 pink items in my shop. One (Viper) toolbox and one utility belt. Everything else is about as serious as possible and color doesn't matter.


----------



## Notw

Color plays into me buying tools, I used to use some Ryobi tools when they were blue, now that they have changed their color to neon green I will not buy their tools anymore. Not sure why but the color just makes me angry when I see it…


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Pink tools have a place in the shop. 

I bought my daughter a 300+ piece set of pink house hold repair tools when she began renting her first house. 
She loved them and used them often. She had some basic IKEA building tools already; but her brother a couple blocks away would borrow her tools (was closer than home) and lose them, or not return them. My son refused to use the new pink tool set, much less borrow them. Problem solved. :-(0)

Cheers!


----------



## Mosquito

Got the secret Santa plane all mounted up tonight


----------



## MikeB_UK

Did you ever try using it Mos?
Always wondered how well/badly those tec-tools work.


----------



## Sylvain

> If I repainted a Festool pink, would it keep guys from taking it?
> 
> - DevinT


I said "discourage" not "prevent".
The idea is to be able to say "this is MY tool" without any discussion about ownership.


----------



## DavePolaschek

My fiddling with the TecTool suggested that it's a good tool for a few things. Putting a groove on a curved edge? Yeah, that's the main one.

For general use, I think it's less useful than a 45 or a Veritas Combo Plane, but it's also about a tenth of the cost. Is it 1/10th as useful? Hmm….


----------



## Mosquito

I tried it out when Dave first sent it to me, and then just now. I used it to make the groove for the holder in that picture. It's a bit like a scraper or draw knife, in that how you angle the tool determines how well it cuts. It's not bad though. I'm hoping to do a short/reel/something about it this weekend, if timing works out

Like Dave said, works well in its swim lane, but many other planes plow a straight groove better lol


----------



## MikeB_UK

Cheers, might grab one then, looked fairly usefull for finishing stopped grooves as well.


----------



## HokieKen

It's one of those tools I feel like would never get used until that one time when it's just the thing. And that one time would justify the cost.


----------



## Mosquito

Pretty much lol


----------



## HokieKen

Since it was free for you, it's already paid for itself Mos ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

My FINALLY almost complete 71 thanks to Bandit 









"Almost" because the collar has been repaired and tapped out and has a temporary screw. But it's a perfectly good user.









I also tapped out the handle threads and used 1/4-20 screws and turned Purpleheart knobs for it when I first got it. It was just a body, busted collar and depth adjuster nut as purchased so I'm pretty happy with its current condition


----------



## corelz125

Nice looking knobs Kenny


----------



## DavePolaschek

I'd say you should, Mike. Maybe make a pilgrimage to Dagenham too.


----------



## Mosquito

I agree with Dave Mike, and should you happen across a rabbeting one, let me know


----------



## Mosquito

A little moulding plane action tonight. No reason other than I pulled it off the shelf and ran it


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, do you use a rabbet to hog off waste first?


----------



## DevinT

Looks like a Reverse Ogee with Astragal molding profile and those spring lines on the end grain are lovely; highly visible. The small flat that appears (to my eye) between the ogee and astragal seems to eliminate the need for boxing in that area (where a full quirk would definitely need boxing).

Very nice, *mos*!


----------



## DevinT

I want to know how you sharpen the blade


----------



## Mosquito

With this plane I don't usually go rabbet first, Kev. I find it takes more time when all I'm doing is a short practice/for fun piece. If I were doing longer lengths and/or multiple sticks I probably would though, as it would likely be worth the extra layout and step then.

There is no boxing, and it's a little ridge. I cleaned out the spring lines and colored them in with an ultra fine sharpie so they'd be visible. That was a couple years ago.

The key is to try to not let it get dull to the point where I have to sharpen. So I just hit it on a leather wheel on my buffer with some honing compound regularly instead. Otherwise I touch up the edge with a diamond rod knife sharpener, and then back to honing. That's the same basic regiment I do for most of my profiled irons these days, regardless of what tool it's for


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I want to know how you sharpen the blade
> 
> - DevinT


No jigs or fancy set-ups. All by hand. I've been going down that rabbit-hole because I recently acquired some that haven't been touched for a century or so.


----------



## controlfreak

Man I like those! I feel an urge to buy more planes now!


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> ... No jigs or fancy set-ups. All by hand. I ve been going down that rabbit-hole because I recently acquired some that haven t been touched for a century or so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Kent


Hmm?


----------



## rad457

Spent way too many hours the last few days sharpening a set of #55 blades, I have the European ceramic slips but put a set of these in my cart at Lee valley to help speed thing up
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/sharpening/stones/33012-water-cones


----------



## MikeB_UK

> I d say you should, Mike. Maybe make a pilgrimage to Dagenham too.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Let's not be too hasty, no one want's to go to Dagenham


----------



## MikeB_UK

> I agree with Dave Mike, and should you happen across a rabbeting one, let me know
> 
> - Mosquito


A rabetting tec-tool?


----------



## Mosquito

Compliments of a publication Dave found and sent me


----------



## MikeB_UK

Huhn, never even heard of it before, much less seen one in the wild.

Given we call it a rebate instead of a rabbett I reckon this was optimistically made for export and it tanked.
Hell I can only find one reference to it on google (same one dave found from the look of it).

Looks reasonably easy to reverse engineer so I reckon sic one of the engineer types on it as a challenge


----------



## DavePolaschek

Yeah, Mike. I am a member of TATHS, for what it's worth. Also subscribe to Quercus to help out the UK publications.

The whole TecTool seems to me like it was something of a niche product, but I've managed to find one good user for me and one very nice model for Mos, both from this side of the pond (and without going over the secret Santa limit, as long as one doesn't count the shipping).

If I see a rabbetter (or rebater) on eBay, I may pounce, but I don't find the tool super useful. As said above, it's very useful for one thing (grooving along a curve), and an interesting idea, but I don't find myself reading for it all that often. But I will probably find an excuse to use it once a year or so, if only because I decide to decorate a curved edge that I could've made straight, except I realized it was time to use the TecTool again.

But then again, I seem to be developing as a tool-maker, so poking at niche tools is interesting to me. Maybe I'll end up deciding I need to make one for a swap at some point. I've got a number of things printed out from Marples catalogs from the late 1800s and early 1900s as idea fodder for future swaps.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Yeah, started subscribing to Quercus after you pointer me to it.

The TecTool plough isn't a new idea, it's very closely based on a coachmakers plough, with the extra blade added so it can cut back and forwards.









I do prefer making tools myself, although some of that may be because I have to dimension everything by hand, so a hand tool is a lot less roughing out work than a cupboard.


----------



## KentInOttawa

In Season 30, Episode 10 of the Woodwright's Shop (PBS), Chris Shwarz and Roy discuss an early fiction book: The Joiner and Cabinet Maker. A reprint of this book is available from Lee Valley or Lost Art Press.

One of the things discussed in the 1839 book and the PBS episode (starting at 16:55 and again at 21:00) was the correct pronunciation of rebate. The book says that, despite the spelling to the contrary, it was properly pronounced as "rabbit".

Given this historical reference to rebates and rabbets both being pronounced as "rabbit" in 1839, I suspect that Paul Sellers and most contemporary British woodworkers have learned to pronounce it as "ree-bait" because some of the ignorance mentioned in the 1839 book have been passed on. As such, I'll pronounce it "ree-bait" regardless of how it is spelled.


----------



## bandit571

^Must have been from Yorkshire…


----------



## corelz125

This may bring a smile to Don W. Cleaning up the scraper. Need it for a project now.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> As such, I ll pronounce it "ree-bait" regardless of how it is spelled.
> 
> - Kent


Doh! All that time writing it up, and I still messed it up. I meant to say that I'll pronounce it "rabbit" regardless of how it is spelled.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

More than a random plane pic. This is my 9 3/4 Stanley block plane.










For as long as I've read about hand tooling, there have been assurances that block planes, more than any other hand tool, are personal in nature. That you'll find one that 'fits your hand,' and is always within reach. Well, this one has done that for me.

I love the size, the way it fits my hand, and find that it's always the first thing I reach for when I'm at the bench. Hence, this post, naming the 9 3/4 as the best block plane (for me) of all!


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice Smitty. Do you normally 2-hand it, or can you reach the sides of it with the squirrel tail still?


----------



## Sylvain

Taking into account a rebate (in finance) is a discount or in other words a price diminution, and a rebate (in wood working)is a thickness diminution, it seems to me perfectly appropriate to use the English term rebate.

The French equivalent of the financial rebate is "rabais".
The French equivalent of the woodworking rebate is "feuillure". That is because a rebate is often used to insert a (stationary or mobile) panel or a glass; a panel or glass being in some way a leaf or in French "une feuille".


----------



## DLK

> The key is to try to not let it get dull to the point where I have to sharpen. So I just hit it on a leather wheel on my buffer with some honing compound regularly instead. Otherwise I touch up the edge with a diamond rod knife sharpener, and then back to honing. That s the same basic regiment I do for most of my profiled irons these days, regardless of what tool it s fo
> 
> - Mosquito


What leather wheel did you buy? Or did you make one?


----------



## Mosquito

I bought one from Grizzly I believe. It's a hard wheel wrapped in leather more like a stop on a wheel than a buffing wheel made of leather


----------



## HokieKen

Very nice Smitty  I'd love to try one but you don't run across those often.

That Sargent looks nice Corelz but it's not gonna work very well without a blade ;-p


----------



## Mosquito

I actually managed to get it sharpened up, some wood prepped, and a short videos shot of the Tec-Tool. Not very comprehensive, but my limit was a minute lol

And a link for the embed challenged


----------



## corelz125

Blade needs some sharpening. 
Smittysonian comes through with another gem of a plane.


----------



## HokieKen

Wow, that's really slick and looks like it works pretty dang well Mos.

By "embed challenged" you mean like LJs mobile?


----------



## Mosquito

Not necessarily everyone on LJ mobile lol


----------



## Mosquito

one challenge I'll have to overcome is that the cutters seem to move a bit, no matter how much I tighten them down. Will have to do some looking to see if i can take a look at getting them a little more bite on the body of the tool. It has some grooves in the side of the cutter that are probably for that purpose, I might just have to see about deepening them a little or something


----------



## DevinT

Brand new Apple iPhone 12 purchased less than 30 days ago … queue trombone


----------



## Mosquito

I just have a Galaxy S10, but I also use Firefox mobile for my browser of choice, which is likely a bigger impact than what the phone is


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Impossible for me to take a still picture of the two handed method, Mos, but I do that on occasion. And that versatility -two fisted planing- is also a reason it's a Go-To. But typically I'm using the plane one handed. It's an earlier Excelsior model, so the side rounds are centered further back on the tool vs. the middle. That is another factor I think. And finally, the ball of the handle fits against the underside of my wrist, giving good control and feed back to what's going on.










(Man, that pic makes my hand look fat…)

Corelz, you're funny! But I do admit to having a wide variety of tools. Know too that almost all of them (like me) have imperfections / assorted dings that keep them from being 'premium collector models.' And that's okay with me.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't need one then. My fat fingers make my hand look fat enough.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You're just being stubborn 'cause it ain't got any red on it…


----------



## HokieKen

Only a couple of my block planes have any red on them. Most of MF's block planes were black or nickel plated. So I wouldn't deny it entry to the shop like I would its larger brethren ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

lol - fair enough!


----------



## bandit571

Compromise ….maybe a Maroon shade? 1/2 black japanning, 1/2 Cardinal Red….


----------



## corelz125

Glad to hear you keep the unwanted planes still working Smitty. Most people see a repair or small crack and they throw it to the scrap pile.


----------



## rad457

Found some hairline cracks back of the mouth of my M.F. #8  good thing there was a Bailey ready to finish the job.
Surprised at how thin the metal is there compared to a Stanley? Guess I am going to have to go shopping for a Sargent/Winchester #3 ?


----------



## HokieKen

That's like trading your Ferrari for a Pinto because there's a scratch in the paint Andre. ;-)


----------



## corelz125

Now that's crazy talk there Kenny. They put VBM on the planes for a reason


----------



## donwilwol

> Now that s crazy talk there Kenny. They put VBM on the planes for a reason
> 
> - corelz125


LOL. Not just a reason, a good reason!


----------



## rad457

> That s like trading your Ferrari for a Pinto because there s a scratch in the paint Andre. ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Well, I am sort of a Ford Man Wife wanted to buy a Toyota, asked her where she intended to Park it? Ordered an Escape the next day.
Scratch in the paint, can live with, cracked frame not so much Found a guy who is going to try an weld it, see how that goes?


----------



## HokieKen

VBM = Vintage But Mediocre? ;-)

I don't blame you for swapping out if you have cracks behind the mouth Andre. If they're hairline cracks though, I'm not sure how welding is going to help? Unless he's going to grind some out first?

Here at work we have our own foundry and make a lot of cast iron parts. We make a lot of pneumatic valves that have to be air-tight too. But, cast iron is inherently porous. So we use an impregnation process to seal up tiny holes in the cast walls. It's basically the same as stabilizing wood where you have a very thin fluid you submerge your part in and then pull a vacuum to get any air out and pull the fluid into where it was. Then, somehow only the fluid inside the part cures. Not real sure how that works exactly but it does…

Anyway, I say all that wondering if there may be commercial places that offer that service? I'm sure it would be cost-prohibitive for one piece but, if somebody who restored planes had collected a bunch of bodies with hairline cracks at the corners of the mouth and/or up the cheeks, it might be a way to salvage them?

For yours though Andre, if the cracks are just behind the mouth and they're really small, you might be able to repair them with just some silver solder. It works well on cast iron and is a pretty simple process to do at home.


----------



## donwilwol

I know most of you guys do not need the help, but I would appreciate it if you would pass it along to those that do

https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/317606


----------



## rad457

My one an only Sargent was not a VBM iron, but it really likes the PMV-11 upgrade
Quite comical actually, saw some lines on a piece of wood I was smoothing so thought blade chamfer, gave her a quick touch up on the 8000 WS and lines got worse? pulled the blade out again, knock the corners of on the Diamond stone few more passes on the WS and lines still there? With the blade out there is no problem They claim with age comes Wisdom, or was that Dementia?
Got rid of most of my metal working stuff 15/20 years ago, got tired of paying for gas cylinders that were not being used. Sometimes miss the Oxy/Acet. bottles but not all that often Really miss the hi frequency TIG set up we had in the shop at Work! (and the free consumables)


----------



## DevinT

> A little moulding plane action tonight. No reason other than I pulled it off the shelf and ran it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito


Some additional info …


----------



## MikeB_UK

Right that's me Tec-Tooled up then.
I'm blaming the usual enablers-not-so-anonymous of course.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Ooh! With a box, even! Nice, Mike!


----------



## bandit571

Decided to give the Millers Falls no. 8 a break for a day…and…









And…









With a Keen Kutter iron on-board..









A No. 4 size…with a toe bolt in the tote?...









A K K 4…..figured it could do with a few shavings being made…


----------



## Mosquito

definitely glad the KK series didn't come with high knobs, they just look wrong lol

Very nice Mike. With a red frame too, which I think indicates it's an older version than mine. Mine has a guide plate for the middle that aligns the blades at consistent angles (and has a blue frame)


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Ooh! With a box, even! Nice, Mike!
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Every one I saw seemed to have a box, I think most of these got bought back in the 70's and just sat in the box since.



> definitely glad the KK series didn t come with high knobs, they just look wrong lol
> 
> Very nice Mike. With a red frame too, which I think indicates it s an older version than mine. Mine has a guide plate for the middle that aligns the blades at consistent angles (and has a blue frame)
> 
> - Mosquito


Yes, I think the guide plate was the main improveent for the V2, but it looked like I could Fashion one out of brass fairly easily if it's an issue, so the extra 1/16th blade may be useful - only seemed to have the V1's available at the moment over here anyway & it probably won't see a lot of use to be honest.

Of course mines's faster because it's red


----------



## theoldfart

On a little three day trip to the North Coast.
Going to stop into a shop called Hock Tool Co.,ever heard of 'em? 

But first, North Coast brewing.

Tomorrow a ride along the coastal cliffs.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, the guide plate would probably be pretty easy to make if you needed it, and I honestly think going from two screws per cutter down to 1 was a mistake. I think having two would help the issue I have of the blades walking out of adjustment as I use it

Sounds fun Kevin, wear your helmet if that's a bike ride, you've got too many miter saws to be taking on head injuries again


----------



## theoldfart

No worries, did one ride already. Still here!


----------



## DavePolaschek

Say hi to Ron and Linda, Kevin! Wish I could get out there to see them.


----------



## bandit571

Well since nobody liked that K K 4c…how about..









Stanley No. 3, Type 11?










Even put it to work, tonight..









Cleaning out resaws


----------



## theoldfart

Didn't see Ron Dave, Mark got me my order. Did talk to Ron before I got there, he works from home mostly.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Ahh well. Going to give us a report on your field trip at some point?


----------



## HokieKen

Have fun Kev! North Coast brewing and Hock Tools sounds like my kinda trip 

Bandit, I appreciate your willingness to leave the MF in the till and go slummin' for a day with the KK and Stanley. Keeps a man grounded ;-)


----------



## bandit571

The Dungeon Woodworking Shop is an Equal Opportunity Employer…..as long as a tool can DO the task, it will get used in the "Rotation" of the tool chest.


----------



## RWE

Had some work in the Nashville area and drove back through Tennessee Walker territory. I checked stops in Shelbyville and Fayetteville. There was a vendor on Main street in Fayetteville that had quite a collection of planes for sale. Unfortunately, he was selling at Ebay prices.

This 39 1/2 was in great shape. Maybe $135 is a good price but it was over my budget.



















About 5 or 6 years ago I was at a open air Flea Market (no ATM's) and had exhausted my cash. Needed $15 more to be able to buy a Stanley 48. Wife would not give me any of her cash since I had already bought something. So for 5 years I have been haunted by the ghost of the 48 that I missed out on. I believe he was wanting $45 and all I had was $30.00.

No more haunting. I picked up a Fulton (48 I guess). I have read that Fulton was mostly made by Sargent, but I suspect this is a Stanley with the 48 marking removed. I got it for $50.00 (down from his asking price of $68.00). In researching it on the internet I saw that Jim Bode had sold one very much like it for $125.00.




























The same vendor had about 7 or 8 compass planes.


----------



## RWE

I had never seen a Firestone branded plane before.

In the 60's my father and i used to frequent a Firestone store that was run by a fellow with the nickname "Skeet". I have a lot of memories of that store and my father and Skeet so the plane was talking to me. At $68.00, I thought it was overpriced. Most of the the other offerings were junkers. Worths, Handymans etc and they were all overpriced.

*With the twisted lateral, what do you experts thing this is. A Union maybe.* I saw several on Ebay when I got back and checked it out.


----------



## Mosquito

> This 39 1/2 was in great shape. Maybe $135 is a good price but it was over my budget.


I wouldn't pay that much for a broken one, even if it's a common break (the lever cap)


----------



## donwilwol

> I had never seen a Firestone branded plane before.
> 
> In the 60 s my father and i used to frequent a Firestone store that was run by a fellow with the nickname "Skeet". I have a lot of memories of that store and my father and Skeet so the plane was talking to me. At $68.00, I thought it was overpriced. Most of the the other offerings were junkers. Worths, Handymans etc and they were all overpriced.
> 
> *With the twisted lateral, what do you experts thing this is. A Union maybe.* I saw several on Ebay when I got back and checked it out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE


I would say Stanley. Maybe made in the union factory,but well after Stanley bought them


----------



## RWE

> This 39 1/2 was in great shape. Maybe $135 is a good price but it was over my budget.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn t pay that much for a broken one, even if it s a common break (the lever cap)
> 
> - Mosquito


Well I am glad that I didn't scoop that up. I did not notice the broken lever cap. Everything else looked real good, clean. I guess the vendor was trying to overwhelm the buyer with a pristine looking finish so that he would overlook the lever cap.


----------



## bandit571

I know of one dealer near me…that will spray a thick coat of "Clear Coat" on the tools he sells….rust and all…does not matter to him…..Then I have to spend time stripping that junk back off…patina in a can.


----------



## Mosquito

Could be that they just didn't know/notice either. It's pretty common to find that broken


----------



## corelz125

Also have this one Kenny. I got it before the Sargent scraper. I figured a Stanley 112 was never gonna come my way at an affordable price. Some point in time a previous owner put a small washer to get rid of the slop in the blade. I swapped out the plastic furniture for wood.


----------



## drsurfrat

My Kunz 112 has slop side-to-side in the blade holding assembly. Although under use, it is a non-issue, the blade is firmly held, and I don't exert sideways pressure. And I really like the plastic handles, they aren't cold metal, and the texture agrees with my hands.


----------



## corelz125

Mike I found the washer when I took it apart to clean it and put it back in. I have extra totes and knobs around and these 2 fit. The plastic ones aren't bad much better than the Stanley plastic ones.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Really need to sort out a way to joint stuff outside, bench isn't big enough.


----------



## HokieKen

Now paint it and it will be presentable Corelz ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Christmas came WAY early this year  I got a package yesterday from Mos' and tucked in among the expected bits, was a fabulous little surprise:









A little closer…









It's an iron for a Millers Falls #7 ) The final piece of the puzzle for my pseudo #7 from a Fulton 3708 is in place. Now I just need to make some Cocobolo furniture for it and mill the lever cap I have down a hair and do all the restoration work… Oh well, I can at least quit scouring Ebay for an iron )

Thanks again Mos'!!!


----------



## corelz125

Not sure if I will keep it. So paint color can be somebody elses problem. That's some friend sending you that iron for free.


----------



## Mosquito

I told him to mill it down to a scrub plane iron and send it back, but I don't think that's happening LOL


----------



## HokieKen

It's not.


----------



## corelz125

Had a better chance of sending him a Stanley #1 iron to mill down for a scrub that would of been done already and on it's way back to you.


----------



## HokieKen

I'll mill down a whole Stanley #1 if that's what you want. But I ain't lettin' loose of that MF blade ;-)


----------



## DevinT

Hey *Ken*, I've a question for you …

Topic: Engine Turning

Cratex in the Shaper Origin

It just occurred to me that the moment that rubberized abrasive touches the surface, the router is going to pull massively in the direction of the spindle.

Before I invest the non-trivial amount of money to stock up on cones, cylinders, and mandrels, ... I wonder if I shouldn't first get a machine dedicated for this.

I've seen folks do engine turning in their drill press just holding the piece down with their hands (against a fence, of course), so I'm left thinking that if I get the RPM right, then the pull effect won't be that much.

For that matter, drill presses run pretty slow.

Looking up the range of speeds on the Shaper Origin:

Speed 1 = 10,000 RPM
Speed 2 = 13,200 RPM
Speed 3 = 16,400 RPM
Speed 4 = 19,600 RPM
Speed 5 = 22,800 RPM
Speed 6 = 26,000 RPM

And I can dial anywhere in-between 1 and 6, but the lowest RPM is 10k and the highest RPM is 26k.

I've no idea what speed is best for engine turning or how the rubberized abrasive will react.

ASIDE: There might be one little gotcha … and that is that while most folks are engine turning steel and aluminum and using some kind of lubricant, I was going to do iron and attempt it dry-at the most a sprinkling of graphite but nothing else, so the "grab" could be pretty intense on first-contacts, ... but never tried it so not sure.


----------



## HokieKen

I think you'll be okay even at 10k Devin. You'll be making extremely light contact with a relatively small, unedged tool. I would give it a test at least before investing any $ in an alternative.


----------



## DevinT

Thanks Ken.

According to this [PDF] brochure from Cratex explaining their offerings, the plan is to take part no. 1350 (cylinder shape with 7/8" diameter) and attach it to mandrel No 1341 (1/4" shank).










I will have to determine what "light pressure" is with the Shaper Origin. Is it a depth of 0" (perform Z-touch and use 0" depth?) or is it 0.005"? something deeper? No idea. I also imagine that I might have to re-perform Z-touch after a number of plunges.

Then there is the question of which grit to use. There is coarse (1350-C), medium (1350-M), fine (1350-F), and extra fine (1350-XF).

I found some 1350-C (the "-C" is for coarse grit) on eBay.

NOTE: But I'm not about to pay $41/ea when I'm not even sure coarse is the right grit.

I found some 1350-M on Amazon.

NOTE: A little better at $28/ea but still kind of pricey

It seems that the 7/8" cylinder is really hard to find. I can only find 1350-C and 1350-M and they are much more expensive then the 1" dia. cylinder (No. 1351).

I can find 1351-C, 1351-M, 1351-F, and 1351-XF very easily. The prices of which are much lower per-unit than any of the 1350's I can find. Strange how a larger diameter product with more abrasive cost less! Ugh!

ASIDE: A standard hand plane is only about 2.5" tall (less if we are talking BedRock) talking specifically about engine turning the sides of hand planes. The 7/8" diameter cratex is what I settled on based on the amount of "swirls" I can pack-in with a 50-70% overlap. With a 1" diameter, I can pack less or would have to increase the overlap.

I just purchased mandrel 1341 on eBay-a 10 pack for $16.

Trying to find a good source for Cratex 1350 with various grits.

Unless, *Ken*, you perhaps have suggestions with grit that might work best for the purpose of engine turning hand plane sides.


----------



## MikeB_UK

The trusty No. 4, when mostly smooth is more important than mostly flat 

I'll clean it up with a card scraper tomorrow - I'm knackered now.


----------



## DevinT

*Mike*, I'm getting tired just looking at the photos. Get some rest! You've earned it.


----------



## DanKrager

DevinT, you'll want to be very sure that those abrasive bits you plan to use are rated for that RPM. If you've ever had one come apart at speed under load, you'll know why I'm concerned. If they are not marked, it's an expensive mistake to assume.

I see where some customers are using Cratex products in a Foredom tool that can go as high as 50K RPM. That makes an assumption pretty easy. I can't see anywhere Cratex rates for max RPM.

Like metal milling there may be some math that involves depth of cut, feed speed, diameter of cutter and material. With an edged tool, there is also chip load. There is wisdom in being close to right on this.

DanK


----------



## DevinT

Speed ratings are in the PDF I linked and in the image of said PDF I embedded. 20k RPM for up to 1/2" diameter and subtract 20% for each 1/4" beyond that. The Shaper can do 10k to 26k and Cratex says optimal results are achieved at 30-80% of maximum speed.

I haven't sat down and calculated for 7/8" (1350) and 1" (1351) yet but something tells me it should be fine.


----------



## DevinT

Calculating …

20k RPM max for 1/2"

Cratex no 1350 is 7/8 … that's 3/8" larger. Cratex says subtract 20% for each 1/4" beyond 1/2". I take that as to subtract 30%.

20k x 0.7 = 14k

And they say the best results are obtained between 30% and 80% of maximum speed given diameter. That translates to a range of 4.2k to 11.2k for the 7/8" diameter spindle (if I am reading everything correctly).

That would translate to between setting 1 and about 1.5

Now for the 1" Cratex (no 1351), if I read everything correctly, we should subtract 40% from the max speed.

20k x 0.6 = 12k

Best results between 30% and 80% of that, translating to a range of 3.6k to 9.6k.

That puts the Shaper Origin's lowest speed setting below the max RPM and just slightly above the recommended speed for best results.

Given that information, I can absolutely see how using these things can easily become dangerous. Chucking anything larger than 1" diameter into your router would be a recipe for disaster even on the lowest setting.

The danger becomes doubly-compounded when you have to not only consider the diameter, but the length beyond the mandrel. In the case of 1351 (1" Cratex cylinder) there 1" of length that extends beyond the end of the mandrel. Were the length beyond the mandrel to be greater than the diameter, than the above calculations would have to use the larger of the two numbers to calculate max RPM.

And then … from *DanK* there is real life experience that trumps all the companies recommendations.

I'll just hope for the best and prepare for the worst (use all necessary PPE including heavy leather apron).


----------



## HokieKen

For what you're trying to do Devin, you don't want to remove much metal at all. You just want to touch enough to "scuff" the surface. So you shouldn't really engage the bit. And eve so, full face contact like that means the router's reaction force should be pure rotation compared to fluted cutters that will also try to "run away" from you. I think you'll find no cause for concern.


----------



## DevinT

Thanks Ken!

Yeah, you're absolutely right about running vs spinning. I had neglected that cold fact (the "bit" is not going to remove anything, so it's not exactly going to try and walk itself).

OK, so here's where I'm at …

1. I need to wait for the mandrels to arrive (ETA Apr 2 - 6)

2. For economic and availability reasons, I'll skip Cratex 1350 and go to Cratex 1351

3. I'll use the lowest speed setting possible for Shaper Origin

That should get me to where I can do some trial engine turning.

HOWEVER …

It would be a damn shame to stop there. The advantage of using a Shaper Origin instead of a drill press is of course to take the next logical step …

Move the cutter in a pattern instead of just plunge-scuffing.

I have no idea what to expect but I am willing to try some crazy things like scuffing a repeating wave pattern.

What kind of ideas do some people want to see? I have dedicated half of the dozen-or-so broken planes for engine turning and the other half for engraving tests. So I have a few sides I can play with.


----------



## bandit571

Diamond Treads?


----------



## corelz125

That was some challenge you took on there Mike. Ding the iron up on those knots?


----------



## MikeB_UK

> That was some challenge you took on there Mike. Ding the iron up on those knots?
> 
> - corelz125


It'll need sharpening again now for sure, the convex bevel helps a bit, I think, although I may be wrong about that


----------



## Sylvain

> [..] means the router's reaction force should be pure rotation [...] I think you'll find no cause for concern.
> 
> - HokieKen


An uncle of mine broke his arm with a big hand drill when the bit was suddenly stuck in the hole.

Of course, here, there no risk to really stuck the bit.


----------



## RWE

I got my "48" equivalent cleaned up and sharpened. Still some more work to clean the knob a bit.

It is a Fulton. The only marks are Fulton on the two irons.

Don W. has some Fulton info on his site.

The same model sold by Jim Bode lists the plane as a STANLEY UNION No. 48 Tongue & Groove Plane for Fulton.

So I am guessing, based on the Jim Bode info that Union was acquired by Stanley and that Union had a clone of the 48 (note that the holes in a Stanley 48 pivot fence are round, but are rectangular in the Fulton, different caps on the screws to lock the irons) that was then sold as a Fulton for Sears.

Anybody have the straight info on this plane? What I can't figure is the date range it was sold and what model number might have been used if any as a Fulton. I guess I could look for old Sears catalogs and see what they had in the listing. Anyone have a link to Sears catalogs?


----------



## Notw

very nice RWE, with the no "48" what is the thinnest stock you can tongue and groove?


----------



## bigblockyeti

> [..] means the router's reaction force should be pure rotation [...] I think you'll find no cause for concern.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> An uncle of mine broke his arm with a big hand drill when the bit was suddenly stuck in the hole.
> 
> Of course, here, there no risk to really stuck the bit.
> 
> - Sylvain


Yeah, but I would venture that drill had quite a reduction on a torquey motor to start with, the origin is a trim router at best and has no further mechanical advantage. Even if it grabbed and you fought the force of the kinetic energy contained in the armature and spindle, they're both tiny with little mass.


----------



## RWE

> very nice RWE, with the no "48" what is the thinnest stock you can tongue and groove?
> 
> - Notw


I don't think I would want to do less than 3/4, but you could probably do 5/8. From what I found in my research, they were made originally for one standard thickness size. 7/8 is the size I have and 7/8 was a common lumber size back in the day.

From Patrick's Blood and Gore:

*An extra wide cutter (5/8") was also shipped with this plane, making for a total of three cutters on complete examples. The wide cutter is positioned into the right side of the plane so that it can cut tongues on thicker stock. If this cutters isn't with the plane anymore, you can still cut tongues on wide stock, but you'll need to remove the narrow strip of remaining wood on the rightmost side of the wood with a small bench plane or whatever else you use for lightweight trimming.*

I did not know about this wider iron and accused a shop owner of selling a 48 with improper irons. It was missing the spring locking mechanism and knob and the fellow was wanting $100 for it. After I got the one I posted about, my research told me that the wider iron covered something like from 7/8 to an 1 1/4 in width.

Now that I have written this, I can see that I could add a wider second iron on the 7/8 model and get the same result.

Also from Blood and Gore: *The 49 would work on 3/8 to 3/4:*

#49 Tonguing and Grooving Plane, 10"L (9"L 1937 on), 3/16"W, 2 3/4lbs, 1877-1944.
This plane is identical to the #48, except for the width of its cutters, each of which measures 3/16" wide (it, too has an extra and wider cutter so that it can work thicker stock). It is designed to work stock 3/8" to 3/4" thick, and centers its groove on stock 1/2" thick. It's less common than the #48. Like the #48, the early models are japanned, with the later ones nickel plated. The true type 1 has the patent date stamped into the sole of the plane, not depressed in the casting directly below the tote. I can't recall seeing a japanned World War II model of this plane, but I'm sure they must exist.

The plane was shortened by about an inch during the late 1930's. These shorter examples are not found nearly as often as the earlier and longer examples. Furthermore, the planes really aren't as long as the propaganda claim (which I use as a reference above). They are really closer to 8" long. These short planes have the smaller, slotted, trumpet horn-shaped, and nickel plated screws.


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## Notw

Thanks RWE, quick search through eBay and the number 49 must be rare as the only one i see is a body only.


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## RWE

> Thanks RWE, quick search through eBay and the number 49 must be rare as the only one i see is a body only.
> 
> - Notw


If you wanted a 49, getting the body and using parts from a 48 if needed, might work. You would just need to source or make some irons.

In my case, I will conjure up a project that will use the 48. I have a biscuit joiner that I have not used in 15 or 20 years, so if I ever do a build that would demand biscuits, I have the alternative now. Of course I could cut tongue and grooves with the 45. As a matter of fact, if you want to do thinner stock, the small tongue iron that you find with 45 irons might get you there.

I am not a collector. But I do have a couple of 45's that I acquired so that I could set one up to groove and the other to cut the tongue. Never used them for that purpose yet. LOL


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## Mosquito

that's why I have so many #45s too RWE… that way I can set one up for each iron


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## RWE

> that s why I have so many #45s too RWE… that way I can set one up for each iron
> 
> - Mosquito


How small a width board can you do with the smaller tongue iron in a 45? I figured you might know!


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## bandit571

The smaller tongue cutter is 3/16" , so, go from there


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## Mosquito

yeah, "just over" 3/16 lol Since you have an adjustable fence on the #45, you center the tongue on whatever width you want. You could use the 3/16" tongue iron on a 7/8" board if you really wanted to, it would just require some cleanup of the edges lol


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## rad457

> that s why I have so many #45s too RWE… that way I can set one up for each iron
> 
> - Mosquito


Yup, that's why I got the second one and then a Record 050, But haven't figured out why I have 2 #46 but only 1 set of irons? LOL! Missed out on number 3 by $2.50 on E-bay, but it did have a set of irons


----------



## KentInOttawa

> that s why I have so many #45s too RWE… that way I can set one up for each iron
> 
> - Mosquito





> Yup, that s why I got the second one and then a Record 050, But haven t figured out why I have 2 #46 but only 1 set of irons? LOL! Missed out on number 3 by $2.50 on E-bay, but it did have a set of irons
> 
> - Andre


Since the 45s will both be set up differently, you don't need 2 sets of irons. 8-D


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## Sylvain

For floor boards, one doesn't center the tongue and groove.
Those are closer to the bottom face. So one has extra thickness on the top to allow for sanding/planing the floor when installed.


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## Notw

Sounds like I might be better off jumping into the world of 45's and not into a 48 or 49


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## Notw

Stanley No. 2 restoration completed. This plane looked to be in great condition when I got it, but once I got into restoring it there was pitting and the body was anything but flat.
Before


















After, all cleaned up with new Walnut wood



























Do you guys still like the restoration pictures?


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## HokieKen

Wow, that looks great Notw!


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## adot45

Beautiful, well worth the effort. Very nice work.


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## Lazyman

Shiny!


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## Mosquito

Definitely looks good now Notw. And yes, we like the restoration pictures (both of me, anyway )

And on the #45 vs 48/49… there is something to be said about a tool that requires no setup too. If T&G is a regular part of your woodworking, the 48/49 would probably serve you better, as all you do is swing a fence around, instead of having to get depth stop and fence dialed in just right


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## corelz125

Nice job on that #2


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks great! And I don't doubt you, but I've never heard of a No. 2 not being flat, that's wild!


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## KelleyCrafts

Good looking tiny plane.


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## terryR

Nice little No.2! Somehow I'm still missing one of those.

But, finished plane No.3 (for me) this year; a 6" long miter plane built from Bronze, Steel, and East India Rosewood. Blade is 1" wide and this is a solid user!


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## RWE

> Sounds like I might be better off jumping into the world of 45 s and not into a 48 or 49
> 
> - Notw


If you don't have a 45 (or two or three), I think I would pursue those over the 48/49. As Mos stated, a single purpose plane is nice if you have a big job. That was always the take of Roy Underhill who would pan a 45 versus a dedicated wooden plane for the same job. However the 45 is more "interesting" and more versatile if you learn to live with the setup tweaking that goes with it.

The reason I got the 48 was because "it was there" and I had missed out on one earlier. If I were starting from scratch, i would go for a 45.

#2 looks great. I have never seen one so far. I try to refrain from Ebay and look for items in Antique Malls and Flea Markets, and number 2's are just not there and if they were, probably over my budget constraints. Congrats on having one.


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## DevinT

*terryR* that is a magnificent plane you have made there. Very nice!

I do have one observation for potential improvement, if you are open to suggestion (if not, please ignore) …

The escapement is missing a pair of "eyes" that would be seen on older planes. These are slight concavities in the top-inside edges of the escapement sides so that your fingers are not scraped by sharp edges when you reach in to pull out a stubborn shaving.



















You hardly ever see an old plane with a deeply recessed escapement without a pair of eyes because reaching in with pinched fingers leads to pain after a few dozen scrapes against that sharp leading edges as you reach in, regardless of whether it is a wood plane or metal, but more so with metal.

Beautiful work! Please don't take this comment as anything less than full praise, with just a hint of a suggestion.


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## KelleyCrafts

> Sounds like I might be better off jumping into the world of 45 s and not into a 48 or 49
> 
> - Notw
> 
> If you don t have a 45 (or two or three), I think I would pursue those over the 48/49. As Mos stated, a single purpose plane is nice if you have a big job. That was always the take of Roy Underhill who would pan a 45 versus a dedicated wooden plane for the same job. However the 45 is more "interesting" and more versatile if you learn to live with the setup tweaking that goes with it.
> 
> The reason I got the 48 was because "it was there" and I had missed out on one earlier. If I were starting from scratch, i would go for a 45.
> 
> #2 looks great. I have never seen one so far. I try to refrain from Ebay and look for items in Antique Malls and Flea Markets, and number 2 s are just not there and if they were, probably over my budget constraints. Congrats on having one.
> 
> - RWE


I only half agree here. Now I want to preface this by saying that I believe RWE and I know especially Mos have far more 45 experience than I do but there's definitely something to be said for certain single use planes.

I have a 45 and I get better with it every time I use it, I just don't need it incredibly often. I do make plenty of boxes and drawers so using it as a plow plane is perfect except it's not really. It's just kind of big and funky trying to cut a 1/4" groove 1/4" from the bottom compared to a #44. I don't have a 44. I tried to find a decent one on EBay and couldn't for a price I liked so I ordered a Veritas small plow plane in Jan. it hasn't arrived yet but I think I won't regret that plane setup for those specific grooves all the time so I just grab it and go.

If I were better/more comfy with the 45 maybe it wouldn't be as big of deal but it's a lot of fiddling to get that thing dialed in and storing it setup is more significant than the 44 or Veritas version will be (I think).

The 45 however is pretty amazing and I think everyone who does hand tool work should grab one. These combo planes are pretty fun to use overall.


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## DevinT

As a general aside (not related to anything above), when I first joined LumberJocks and started learning more about planes, I saw mention of something called a "plantation hose column plane"

Haven't found one yet, but I think I might be able to make one … if only I knew what it was for.

Not entirely sure that I wasn't having my chain yanked. Such a thing exists, right?


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## theoldfart

I have never seen a metal mitre plane with eyes. Seems like a difficult thing to accomplish.


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## KelleyCrafts

Without eyes how can it steer??

Awesome little plane Terry, as usual.


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## Notw

beautiful plane Terry, my dovetails in wood are so so on a good day, i imagine metal is a lot less forgiving


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## MikeB_UK

> I have never seen a metal mitre plane with eyes. Seems like a difficult thing to accomplish.
> 
> - theoldfart


Only ever seen it on ones where the metal planes use a traditional cheek instead of a crossbar, otherwise the sides aren't really thick enough to need the extra access.


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## DevinT

Mike, those are ears, not eyes (in the picture above)


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## terryR

Thanks, guys, any advice welcome any time.

That plane above looks cast maybe? And looks like it has eyes and ears both. Cool. And the wedge looks like it has legs


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## MikeB_UK

> Mike, those are ears, not eyes (in the picture above)
> 
> - DevinT


Yes, well, kinda, the terminology kind of wanders a bit depending on place and era.

Ears around here are the sticky out side bits on the wedge, eyes is the decorative bit easing into the abutment/cheeks, given how most infill planes use a pin, it probably gets even worse with naming


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## MikeB_UK

Or, to avoid all the terminology - I've only ever seen the cut out bits at the top when there are sticky out bits for the wedge, instead of a pin.


----------



## DevinT

I don't see how using a pin versus a wedge effects the ability have eyes in the least.

If the top of the cheeks are square with 90-degree internal edges, it has no eyes - those edges (if tall enough) will scrape your fingers when you reach in to pinch the clog and pull it out.


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## donwilwol

That's fantastic work Terry!


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## MikeB_UK

> I don't see how using a pin versus a wedge effects the ability have eyes in the least.
> 
> If the top of the cheeks are square with 90-degree internal edges, it has no eyes - those edges (if tall enough) will scrape your fingers when you reach in to pinch the clog and pull it out.
> 
> - DevinT


Ah, that kind of depends on which school of thought you follow for what the eyes are for.

1) Decorative, like a cupids bow on the wedge
2) A little extra knuckle room without weakening the abutment too much.
3) A chamfer to protect your fingers.

I tend to reckon a little bit of 1 & 2
I'm not convinced about 3 because you'd round the edges more if that was it's primary use, and I've never seen it on a krenov plane.

So, if you use a pin
1) It's generally a style of plane with more curves and less decoration, no lambs tongue, cupids bow etc.
2) Cheers are flat, so the width of the throat is followed all the way up.
3) Should be as common on a Krenov as a traditional (Yes, krenov style dates back to at least Roman/viking times, but you get what I mean)


----------



## DevinT

The book on making wooden hand planes which covers 250+ years of study (referencing everything from 1700's onward) with over 3000 images says the eyes are for 3, a chamfer to protect your fingers.

I did not put them on one of my planes and I regretted it as reaching into the mouth without scraping your fingers is cumbersome. Wish I had put them on the wooden plane I made.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> The book on making wooden hand planes which covers 250+ years of study (referencing everything from 1700 s onward) with over 3000 images says the eyes are for 3, a chamfer to protect your fingers.


There's always more than one reason to do something.
Given a convex instead of concave top would be better at protecting your fingers, I say that's 1 editor fitting things in to match their opinion - althought I'm happy to admit I may be wrong 



> I did not put them on one of my planes and I regretted it as reaching into the mouth without scraping your fingers is cumbersome. Wish I had put them on the wooden plane I made.
> 
> - DevinT


I added the ones on that Yew one I built, after a few weeks of use, to make it easier to clear shavings, it's a really simple retrofit.


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## DevinT

Easy retrofit if you still have the plane and did not give it to someone ^_^


----------



## MikeB_UK

Well, OK, I'm pretty sure Eric isn't going to hack a few bits of that plane.
Anyway, that was a krenov style wan't it? - the romans didn't put eyes on so it's all good.


----------



## DevinT

Not a Krenov … made from the Veritas kit. The only similarity is that they are both laminated carcass.

Yeah, since it's finished, taking a chisel to it would also mean you'd have to match my finish on the freshly cut eyes. I think I just did 3 coats of D/O followed by some Daddy Van's lavender and beeswax furniture wax if memory serves … but, luckily, I don't have to rely on memory … I documented how it was made, right down to the finish, in the 22-page booklet that accompanied the plane. I wanted to make sure he could service it if need-be, which entailed documenting every dimension, chemical, and material comprising the thing.

ASIDE: I am not detailed because I want to be, I forget things easily-so I tend to leave myself copious notes so that I don't have to remember details, just the highlights.


----------



## donwilwol

Just buy the book already!!


----------



## DevinT

But, I don't like Krenov style planes.

Remember? I'm obsessed with adjusters and mechanical linkages. Also, I think the toe on Krenov's is far too short for my tastes. Otherwise, I wouldn't have spent 30 days designing my own based on the Veritas kit and another 30 days building the first one (I imagine I can build one in under a week-and I will surely get the chance to test that theory as I currently have 2 full Veritas kits in my shop ready to use, though I wanted to get to 5 full kits before I did the next batch). I'm currently ordering 1 kit every time the previous order arrives. That has been speeding up considerably as Lee Valley is now starting to keep them in stock.

As I type this, the kit (in PM-V11) has been available and in-stock for well over a week now, so I'll likely be ordering my third kit soon as I continue to stock-pile the kits en-masse.


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## donwilwol

All planes have adjusters. It just a matter of how complicated you need them to be!


----------



## DevinT

When the adjustment is a hammer blow, I believe we should say that the hammer is the adjuster and therefore the plane itself lacks an adjuster.

I would have said "all planes can be adjusted" rather than "all planes have adjusters"


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…









And.
.








and









Ohio 035 vs Sandusky No. 35 Jointer…Also in that group photo, is a Stanley No.28


----------



## MikeB_UK

> When the adjustment is a hammer blow, I believe we should say that the hammer is the adjuster and therefore the plane itself lacks an adjuster.
> 
> I would have said "all planes can be adjusted" rather than "all planes have adjusters"
> 
> - DevinT


Easy enough to sort.

Although, I will concede, the built in adjuster makes it a little harder to use.


----------



## donwilwol

I'm not as picky. Wood, metal, aluminum, adjuster, no adjuster, If it's a hand plane, I want to know how it works!


----------



## rad457

My introduction to hand planing was to build and use a Krenov Plane, using some of his actual planes as reference.
My first reflex is to tap the iron with a hammer to set it The passing grade was to read a newspaper through a shaving, got real hard with a Coopering plane!


----------



## DanKrager

A kerfing plane (saw?) has been off and on my wish list for a long time. Never found the making of one round tuit, but on current project (a drilling till module) one might be useful. There are sliding dovetails to cut and several rabbets and dadoes. Trying to polish up hand skills. Suddenly the phrase "in a pinch" jumped out at me, so I put the following together as a test. No planes were harmed in this experiment which seemed to work very nicely. The trick was to install the pinched blade at the shallow angle because the hook of this blade is severe making it too grabby. The good news is that when I figured that out, it is very aggressive and quick with a smooth cutting action with or perpendicular to grain.



















DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Very nifty Dan. Good thinking!


----------



## DevinT

Dan, is that a hacksaw blade? Very cool.

Andre, I think gossamer (see through) shavings are more a test of sharpening and honing than they are a test of the ability to produce desired results in wood, but I guess the going assumption these days is that you have to finish with gossamers.

I have taken Walnut crotch wood and finished it with 1/32" shavings and the surface is just as glass smooth as if I had taken it down with 0.002" or thinner shavings.

But then again, all the planing I do is face grain, so I don't pay much attention to the thickness of shavings. I just see the wood and determine do I need to take off a little or a lot, and then work it. I don't even look at the shavings anymore. They go right onto the floor and then into a box for packing material.

I mean to each their own, but I just thought it odd that the passing mark for ability to plane is to take a thin shaving instead of produce a finish- or joint-ready surface


----------



## bandit571

Final test for a board that was planed….I run my hand across it….feeling for any rough spots….if any.


----------



## Lazyman

That's kind of funny Dan. I did something similar a couple of months ago using some old reciprocating saw blades designed for pruning, only I just clamped it between 2 pieces of maple flooring scraps. I probably bought those blades 20 something years ago but there are other brands that have a similar tooth design on Amazon now. The nice thing about them is that it cuts on both the pull and the push stroke. I played around with angling the blade but this blade worked the best with the blade flat, starting at the far end and pulling it to get it started and then both pushing and pulling. Next time I need to do that I will try using the 45. Having a handle and a fence will make it much easier than just grabbing 2 boards and guiding by eye.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Interesting looking wooden plane MikeB. I like the bench too. Did you build it?


----------



## rad457

Devin, The building of the plane encompassed the prep and sharpening of the Hock irons, building the Body, Flattening the soul and tuning quirks of wood body planes. More of a Class competition in the end, we did a longest and thinnest test for the Jointer style and largest Radius for the Coopering Met some very talented People that took their Planes to the next level with Body carvings I will not forget and regret not having the ability to photo!


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Interesting looking wooden plane MikeB. I like the bench too. Did you build it?
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Cheers Mike, theres a project and picture blog of the plane build if you want more info - but basically, it's made out of Yew.

The bench is nothing special, just 2×4 construction lumber and kind of on the small side, keep meaning to rebuild the top, but it works well enough so I never seem to get a round to it.


----------



## DanKrager

DevinT the blade I used is precisely what Lazyman used, a pruning blade from a reciprocating saw because it was the only blade I had that would fit. I clamped it between the body and middle skate.

A thinner blade would be ideal and to keep from changing blades with grain direction, a combination sharpening job is good. A new frame saw blade might be an ideal candidate?

DanK


----------



## DevinT

Andre, Ah, I see! All good then. Sounds like excellent fun, indeed.

EDIT: when I first read "tuning quirks" I thought for a second we were talking molding planes ^_^ but you meant tuning oddities (quirks is perfectly valid, but I am currently reading through the chapters on molding profiles in my books-to-read which has lots of quirk-ovolos, quirk-coves, quirk-astragals, and such).


----------



## RWE

Off topic. We need a "Milling the wood of your dreams" thread.

I have seen the black markings in some Persimmon before. I just milled some Pecan that has unusual black spots throughout the board I was given. I guess it is just mineral deposits. Any of you guys strong on this kind of stuff? Any ideas. Google has nothing to say.

The spots are about as pronounced on the other side, probably an inch thick or so.

Nice Cherry crotch burl in the other board shown.

I will be planing them, so it kind of fits the thread.

Thanks


----------



## RWE

> Off topic. We need a "Milling the wood of your dreams" thread.
> 
> I have seen the black markings in some Persimmon before. I just milled some Pecan that has unusual black spots throughout the board I was given. I guess it is just mineral deposits. Any of you guys strong on this kind of stuff? Any ideas. Google has nothing to say.
> 
> The spots are about as pronounced on the other side, probably an inch thick or so.
> 
> Nice Cherry crotch burl in the other board shown.
> 
> I will be planing them, so it kind of fits the thread.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE


After posting, I study the board a bit more and there are tiny holes for each Black spot. I have to assume that there is a beetle that secretes waste causing the stain, much like an Ambrosia beetle does to Ambrosia Maple. Guess I should study a bit more before posting.

In the Persimmon, I don't recall any holes, so that remain a mystery.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Milling the wood of your dreams….I'm liking that.


----------



## Lazyman

Looks like you left an uncapped Sharpie laying on it or spilled some India ink or dye. I wonder if oxalic acid would at least diminish the darkness of those stains. I can't say that I have ever seen anything like that on the pecan that I have milled. I have seen some sort of orange colored stain.


----------



## RWE

> Looks like you left an uncapped Sharpie laying on it or spilled some India ink or dye. I wonder if oxalic acid would at least diminish the darkness of those stains. I can t say that I have ever seen anything like that on the pecan that I have milled. I have seen some sort of orange colored stain.
> 
> - Lazyman


I like unusual. With some stain on the wood to darken it a bit, I think the spots will work as "interest". I am sure it is secretion from a beetle of some sort after looking it over. That beetle must be in to iron rich food.

I turned pens for several years and my favorite of all time was one made from the Persimmon with the black steaks in it like on this Pecan. May try to do a pen blank with some of that black stuff featured in it.


----------



## rad457

Speaking of Mineral deposits, working with some Doussie(Afzelia) after milling the wood came across nice yellow deposits that dull even the PMV-11 blades rather quickly. Remember when I bought the board in Portland I had them cut it to fit in truck box and they didn't charge me for a 4 foot section that showed some yellow coloring in the grain.
Did make up a bunch of Pen blanks out of some of the cut offs, need to turn a couple see how it turns?


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> ... Doussie(Afzelia) ....nice yellow deposits that dull even the PMV-11 blades rather quickly. - Andre


Yellow? You mean Yellow Cake? Eeek… Is it radioactive? :-(0)

Outside of Amber/Rosin (which melts/burns and does not make crystals); Carnotite (uranium mineral) would be my first thought for a yellow mineral stain in a species that grows in tropical Africa and Asia. Carnotite is a bright yellow and can be absorbed into fibers by plants. Both Africa and China mine a lot of uranium ores.

Amazoo sells radiation detectors, but you probably just learned that after a frantic search…..


----------



## Notw

Drooling over the Patrick Leach newsletter this morning, he has a Stanley #51/52 shooting board with plane….I don't need both kidneys do I???


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I was too. It's only $1885, surely a small price to pay for square boards?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That price is more than double what they were three years ago or so.


----------



## HokieKen

Well, I think I've finally unseated my last Stanley plane that can be replaced with a Millers Falls equivalent 


















Just purchased the other day so I don't have hands on it yet. It'll certainly need a ton of work in terms of clean up but it was the model I wanted with "Millers Falls" cast across the bridge and that accepts the fence. And it has the fence to boot  When I clicked BIN I thought I saw the depth attachment but on later inspection I see it's missing. But that's okay, the one from my Stanley is the same. Even missing that though, I'm still happy with what I paid for it. Should be able to recoup the cost for it by selling my 71.

If anyone's interested in the 71, let me know. I'm not going to let it go until I get the Millers Falls rehabbed but if someone has a particular hankering for one, I'll make a good deal and put your name on it now.









Note that the thumbscrew in the back is no longer there. The collar had been brazed by a PO and the threads were damaged and stripped out on me. So I tapped it out to a larger thread and put a standard socket head bolt in there. I'll post current pics when I'm ready to sell or sooner if requested. It will include one cutter but I can't recall what size right now. The knobs are replacements I turned from Purpleheart and the screws holding them are 1/4-20 brass round head screws. So it's obviously not a collector's piece but it's been a damn good user for me for the last 5 years!


----------



## corelz125

For that franken router i'll trade you a Pexto.


----------



## Mosquito

Congrats Kenny. I recently got my Keen Kutter router back in fighting shape, so I know the feeling. Though I didn't need another one lol


----------



## Mosquito

A while back I bought a set of random #45/55/46 irons. There were a couple of custom ground profiles in there, so I decided to sharpen one up and see what it was like in the #55.



















Seemed to work alright. Like most of the bigger irons, light cut and a heck of a shove for momentum lol


----------



## theoldfart

Kind of neat the way the end grain coordinates with the blade pattern.
Nice work Mos.


----------



## bandit571

Gave the Stanley No. 8c a quick tune up tonight…we have work to do…









Need to get these 4 planks ready for a glue up….Might take a while?

Planks are 33" long…should be enough of a runway?

Will need to eat me Wheaties in the morning, eh?


----------



## DevinT

Looks like an Ovolo Fillet Cove profile. Very nice indeed. Love those shavings coming off the plane.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Mos that blade is pretty cool.

Speaking of Keen Kutter, you can't call yourself a fan unless you get the nail clippers.


----------



## Mosquito

Ha, I hadn't noticed that Kev, but I think that raises the bar for all molding from now on lol

Dave, I'll have to see if he still has those at our next MWTCA meet lol. I will probably chat with him again anyway, he's a regular stop and chat for me. Maybe I need to have him on the lookout for some stuff for me too… There's another regular at the meets that usually has a lot of Keen Kutter stuff, who I've bought from a lot in the past, roo


----------



## HokieKen

KK fingernail clippers? Now that's just ridiculous. (He says as he opens a new browser tab to see if Millers Falls ever made nail clippers…)


----------



## Mosquito

lol that will probably be the difference between a tool brand and a hardware store brand Kenny


----------



## Lazyman

I think that MF made toenail clippers but only under the Fulton brand. ;-)


----------



## adot45

> Mos that blade is pretty cool.
> 
> Speaking of Keen Kutter, you can't call yourself a fan unless you get the nail clippers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


Or the Match Safe…at least I've always thought it was a match safe.









I think the wife has a couple of KK meat grinders too.


----------



## Mosquito

yeah, outside of pocket knives and razors, they seemed to have a lot of meat grinders out there too… I've seen quite a few of those match safes, but those (and thermometers) are two of the most counterfeited Keen Kutter items out there, so you've got to be careful


----------



## Notw

If I collected meat grinders instead of hand planes I would have plenty to chose from at the antique stores near me


----------



## DevinT

Match safe?

Looks like a bottle cap catch. Mount below opener.


----------



## ac0rn

Course work today at the Playhouse to take down a high spot. Prepping for under-layment before oak flooring.


----------



## bandit571

Had a choice tonight..









Use the No. 8c…or….the No.81

Hmmm..









Old Heft & Hubris seemed to work just fine.









Fill him up…









Sorry, Kenny..don't have anything bigger than a #15 by Millers Falls..


----------



## bandit571

$10 + sales tax..
.








According to the price tag..









Sole doesn't look too hateful..









Though the top of the iron has been hit with a hammer..









Enough to cause a mushroom to grow there…


----------



## BlasterStumps

That blade has slots cut into the bottom side doesn't it? What in seven shades of purple would someone want to bang on the blade with a hammer for when the blade can't go anywhere unless the adjuster is turned. I've seen stuff like that as well Bandit. Makes you shake your head with wonder, huh? Good score on the plane though, they are handy.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Definitely an underrated block plane right there. It does benefit from a hit of wax on the sole, as steel doesn't slide as well as cast iron.


----------



## Mosquito

Needed to shapen the 164, and for some reason decided to polish up the bronze bits too…


----------



## corelz125

Devin here's one for you
https://www.finetools.com/product-page/w-l-epperson-masonic-plow-plane


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Mighty nice plane there Mos.

I'm digging through the couch cushions for that one Cortez. Actually that one doesn't even excite me for some reason. Not sure why.


----------



## rad457

> Devin here s one for you
> https://www.finetools.com/product-page/w-l-epperson-masonic-plow-plane
> 
> - corelz125


Might work real nice if you converted it into a Kerfing saw


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Needed to shapen the 164, and for some reason decided to polish up the bronze bits too…
> 
> - Mosquito


Wow, that is shiny!


----------



## Mosquito

I almost hate to admit it, but my LN #62 is in serious need of some rehab work… it needs quite the cleaning, and also a sharpening. I just don't use it all that often, and when I needed a plane to clean up some stuff I didn't want to use one of my other bench planes for, I grabbed that. As weird as that is to think… a LN relegated to the "don't care" set of tools, along with the first set of Stanley Bailey chisels (not the SW ones)... It's got a lot of adhesive and pieces of vapor barrier tape (from an epoxy project in 2020) on it still

In fact, if we're being completely honest, I've thought about selling both the 62 and the 164. I use both so rarely anymore


----------



## bandit571

Jointer work done…for now..









Boards are 33" long…and that is what that shaving turned out to be….Stanley No. 8c…..might have it set about right?


----------



## BillWhite

> Persimmon is related to the ebony family. That's where the black grain comes in to play.
> 
> Off topic. We need a "Milling the wood of your dreams" thread.
> 
> I have seen the black markings in some Persimmon before. I just milled some Pecan that has unusual black spots throughout the board I was given. I guess it is just mineral deposits. Any of you guys strong on this kind of stuff? Any ideas. Google has nothing to say.
> 
> The spots are about as pronounced on the other side, probably an inch thick or so.
> 
> Nice Cherry crotch burl in the other board shown.
> 
> I will be planing them, so it kind of fits the thread.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE
> 
> After posting, I study the board a bit more and there are tiny holes for each Black spot. I have to assume that there is a beetle that secretes waste causing the stain, much like an Ambrosia beetle does to Ambrosia Maple. Guess I should study a bit more before posting.
> 
> In the Persimmon, I don t recall any holes, so that remain a mystery.
> 
> - RWE


----------



## BillWhite

> Persimmon is related to the ebony family. That's where the black grain comes in to play.
> 
> Off topic. We need a "Milling the wood of your dreams" thread.
> 
> I have seen the black markings in some Persimmon before. I just milled some Pecan that has unusual black spots throughout the board I was given. I guess it is just mineral deposits. Any of you guys strong on this kind of stuff? Any ideas. Google has nothing to say.
> 
> The spots are about as pronounced on the other side, probably an inch thick or so.
> 
> Nice Cherry crotch burl in the other board shown.
> 
> I will be planing them, so it kind of fits the thread.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE
> 
> After posting, I study the board a bit more and there are tiny holes for each Black spot. I have to assume that there is a beetle that secretes waste causing the stain, much like an Ambrosia beetle does to Ambrosia Maple. Guess I should study a bit more before posting.
> 
> In the Persimmon, I don t recall any holes, so that remain a mystery.
> 
> - RWE


----------



## bandit571

Took about an hour…to clean and sharpen…



























Used to be a yellow label..









Might be worth the $10.35?









Once I got the layer of Clear Coat cleaned off…


----------



## Mosquito

I too spent about an hour. Decided to address the #62 issue. Cleaned it up, sharpened it, and gave it the same polishing treatment as the #164. Even works too


----------



## corelz125

Mos where are you installing all this moulding you've been making?


----------



## Mosquito

scrap bin, mostly lol I've thought I should start installing it around the shop as crown molding though, would make for an interesting conversation piece :-D


----------



## ac0rn

It would be a good conversation starter. I was once in a house that had different carpet on every stair tread, and every baluster was different too.


----------



## Lazyman

Random plane shot. Pine is so much fun.


----------



## Mosquito

Agreed Nathan. I sharpened and tuned the #5 tonight too, after deciding I'll skip the IBC iron in this one, at least for the time being. Then had to take it for a run










Followed by #6 to flatten, then 4-1/2 to smooth










Haven't done that in a while, and I need to do it more often lol


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Looking good Mos!

Nice bench Nathan!


----------



## HokieKen

Mos, those KKs are 200X sexier than those LNs.

Still not as sexy as that thing Nathan is pushing though ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

This thing arrived yesterday.









I have my work cut out for me :-/ Every screw is rusted solid. I tried to turn both thumbscrews and tried (gently) to remove the one holding the fence on the bottom. Not a single one showed any signs of compliance so they are all soaking in some Kroil today to see if they act any better tonight. I haven't tried to loosen the hardware holding the knobs on yet. They seem to be brass and appear in decent shape. And the wood is in good shape. Which is odd because I'm fairly sure this thing was buried somewhere. What I assumed was surface rust on the top is about 50-50 rust and dirt. The hole for the depth stop attachment is packed full of dirt. And some of the holes for attaching a wood base and the fence are packed with dirt.

Fortunately, it seems structurally sound. So we'll see what I can do with it


----------



## KelleyCrafts

It made its way into the right hands Kenny.


----------



## Mosquito

good luck Kenny! My Stanley 71 was in pretty rough looking shape when I got it too, and came back amazingly well


----------



## BlasterStumps

Good find Kenny. 
Strangely enough, I have not found a MF like that in the wild.


----------



## corelz125

What's the move if the kroil doesnt work Kenny?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Mike I sent Kenny a link to the exact same plane brand new in the box a week ago. Was $250 so he passed. Was a super nice example though.

I imagine a little heat on that thing would work if the derusting fails.


----------



## bandit571

At least Kenny's wasn't being used as a dowel cutter/coat rack…like the 71-1/2 that I rescued….


----------



## HokieKen

If spraying the Kroil on the threads doesn't work in a couple days, I'll submerge the whole thing in an Acetone/ATF bath. If that doesn't work, it gets the torch.


----------



## theoldfart

That 50/50 solution has always worked for me. Sometimes it takes a day or two.


----------



## Mosquito

When I was cleaning up my foot powered mortiser, nothing moved. At all. The only thing I used on almost all of it was 3-in-1 oil. Only the morse taper chisel was stuck so bad the 3-in-1 didn't work. Had PB Blaster for that. But I had acetone and atf at the ready


----------



## bandit571

Teamwork, this morning…









Cleaning up tapered legs…
.








Tapers…remove the saw and sanding marks…









And flatwork…with a Stanley No3, Type 11….

Had the fence set wrong..









As I did not want a quirk on the outside….got that corrected 









To where it covers the outside quirk..on a #23 bead cutter…

Planing stop?









Resting up the right leg..may try again later…


----------



## HokieKen

The only time Kroil and Acetone/ATF have ever failed me was on a bearing retainer on my milling machine. Eventually I had to weld up a special wrench and take a torch and 3' breaker bar to that bastard. Other than that one instance, patience usually wins out


----------



## corelz125

PB blaster doesn't work all the time for me. I use Kroil very sparingly with the price per can. PB blaster I'll spray like a water gun. Anyonectry give the New wd 40 a try yet?


----------



## HokieKen

All hail King Kroil!









Depth adjuster nut is still feeling stubborn so he gets another squirt and soak.


----------



## drsurfrat

Ohh, bitchen

remember that word?


----------



## bandit571

Bead work..









then reset for a "normal" bead..









only need one..









A second one won't be seen…


----------



## HokieKen

> Ohh, bitchen
> 
> remember that word?
> 
> - drsurfrat


I use it often  In both ways: "quit yer bichin'!" as well as "bitchin' wheels man!"

Let the depth nut soak while I went to the gym and it spun off when I got home. So it's all apart now. Off to the sandblaster next!


----------



## 33706

> The only time Kroil and Acetone/ATF have ever failed me was on a bearing retainer on my milling machine. Eventually I had to weld up a special wrench and take a torch and 3 breaker bar to that bastard. Other than that one instance, patience usually wins out
> 
> - HokieKen


Oh, I thought that Kroil (AeroKroil?) and other aerosol solvents worked by holding your Bic lighter to the spray stream. That way, the combination of flame and penetrating solvent worked together to release stuck parts.


----------



## HokieKen

You can certainly give it a go that way PK  I do have the aerosol can but I'm not so brave. Every time I use it though, for the next few days, every time I walk into the shop I marvel at what a wonderful air freshener it is!


----------



## HokieKen

Just a PSA. *DO NOT SEND MONEY VIA WESTERN UNION*

I bought a tool from another forum member back in February. This member is in Canada and doesn't use PayPal and requested and international money order. Well, I looked and the fee to wire the money via WU was less than the fee for a money order. So, I arranged with him and he said that was fine.

So I send money, it's available immediately and he goes that day to Walmart to pick up cash. But, there was some confusion about what the amount should have been with the currency exchange so he refused payment so he could talk to me before accepting it. He contacted me and we got it straightened out.

So he goes back a couple of days later to pick it up and Walmart tells him that WU cancelled the transfer because it wasn't picked up within 24 hours. On the other end, WU tells me that the money was picked up when he went to Walmart the first time.

So I call WU and tell them the situation. The seller goes back to the Walmart again and speaks to the manager who again told him WU had cancelled the transfer. WU says they have to "open a case for investigation" and it should be resolved in 3 weeks. This was on February 22. I have done online chat or called them at least once a week since then and every time they say "it's still open and being investigated and we don't have any new information at this time." Well after the last call, roughly 6 weeks after filing the complaint, I told them to kiss my ass.

So now I'm working through Mastercard to resolve it. But, it'll be a cold day in hell before I use them for anything ever again.

So I just wanted to spread a little word of mouth that they have so thoroughly earned: *[email protected]%K WESTERN UNION*

We now resume your regularly scheduled broadcast already in progress…


----------



## DevinT

> Ohh, bitchen
> 
> remember that word?
> 
> - drsurfrat


+1


----------



## HokieKen

Step 2:


----------



## controlfreak

I need me one of them blasters!


----------



## Mosquito

I need space for one of them blasters…


----------



## HokieKen

You're both wrong. You just need a job somewhere that has one of them blasters. Or in my case, about a dozen of them blasters ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

I suppose that could work too lol I used to have access to one through a friend of a friend that did custom bike fabrication, but he's since "moved on"


----------



## controlfreak

Yeah Mos, space is another problem here too.


----------



## rad457

> You re both wrong. You just need a job somewhere that has one of them blasters. Or in my case, about a dozen of them blasters ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


About the only thing I miss from my working days, unlimited resources and consumables Very seldom used sand as blast medium, usually glass beads or pecan shells for the more delicate stuff. Guess the Salary an Bonus's were nice?


----------



## Notw

I think we are all wrong, we don't need anything we have a Ken and a post office :-D


----------



## HokieKen

LOL. True though ;-) Sandblasting is quick and painless for me so I don't mind doing it if it's worth the shipping to you.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Who marked their No 5 size plane with the raised letters R5 on the rear of the body back behind the tote? I saw one in the wild this morning with no blade just the frog and main body. It was an early plane whatever it is. Looked like turn of the century model maybe.

edit: found it possibly, Rockford tool co


----------



## Mosquito

Kenny, how much to ship a Barnes mortiser? Lol


----------



## HokieKen

That might be a one-way trip Mos ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

haha, that's what I'd be afraid of!


----------



## bandit571

Renovac…R5?


----------



## DevinT

I learned two things recently …

Kroil succeeds where others fail.

Need to quit job and go work at a company with sand blasters.


----------



## corelz125

Yea the R is for Rockford.


----------



## corelz125

Can add UPS to the avoid list. Got a plane delivered and a small chunk broke off one side. Filed a claim with UPS. They only deal mostly with the shipper not the receiver. First they wanted to pick up the package to inspect it then send it back to the shipper. I said no to that. Then they rejected the claim because the Sri,g cardboard box was used. As bad as the USPS is they are still better than UPS to file a claim with.


----------



## Lazyman

I think that Lakeside (Montgomery Wards) also labeled their planes with an R5. I've got a Lakeside R3 and I have seen a LS R5 somewhere too, though they might have put the R5 at the toe?


----------



## 33706

> Just a PSA. *DO NOT SEND MONEY VIA WESTERN UNION*
> 
> I bought a tool from another forum member back in February. This member is in Canada and doesn t use PayPal and requested and international money order. Well, I looked and the fee to wire the money via WU was less than the fee for a money order. So, I arranged with him and he said that was fine.
> 
> So I send money, it s available immediately and he goes that day to Walmart to pick up cash. But, there was some confusion about what the amount should have been with the currency exchange so he refused payment so he could talk to me before accepting it. He contacted me and we got it straightened out.
> 
> So he goes back a couple of days later to pick it up and Walmart tells him that WU cancelled the transfer because it wasn t picked up within 24 hours. On the other end, WU tells me that the money was picked up when he went to Walmart the first time.
> 
> So I call WU and tell them the situation. The seller goes back to the Walmart again and speaks to the manager who again told him WU had cancelled the transfer. WU says they have to "open a case for investigation" and it should be resolved in 3 weeks. This was on February 22. I have done online chat or called them at least once a week since then and every time they say "it s still open and being investigated and we don t have any new information at this time." Well after the last call, roughly 6 weeks after filing the complaint, I told them to kiss my ass.
> 
> So now I m working through Mastercard to resolve it. But, it ll be a cold day in hell before I use them for anything ever again.
> 
> So I just wanted to spread a little word of mouth that they have so thoroughly earned: *[email protected]%K WESTERN UNION*
> 
> We now resume your regularly scheduled broadcast already in progress…
> 
> - HokieKen


I'm in Canada, Ken, and I've used my CDN Paypal account all over the world, without a problem, ever!
Sounds like he steered you to Western Union with criminal intent.


----------



## HokieKen

Not at all PK. I've dealt with him before. I'm 100% confident that no fault lies with him. He just doesn't use PayPal anymore.


----------



## corelz125

Good thing your not on facebook Kenny. A minty shiny MF 07 block plane was listed tonight with the original box. Looks like it was never used


----------



## Lazyman

The Can I Have IT facebook group also has a MF 67 router plane. Looks like NOS in the box.


----------



## corelz125

Nathan is it the same guy that has the 07?


----------



## Lazyman

No, different guy. It was posted about an hour ago.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

The router plane was on last week for $250.

The block plane was at like $170 last I looked. Cheap ass isn't buying either of them.


----------



## corelz125

The price on the block plane shot up real fast


----------



## HokieKen

Cheap ass already has both ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

.


----------



## RWE

> Persimmon is related to the ebony family. That s where the black grain comes in to play.
> 
> Off topic. We need a "Milling the wood of your dreams" thread.
> 
> I have seen the black markings in some Persimmon before. I just milled some Pecan that has unusual black spots throughout the board I was given. I guess it is just mineral deposits. Any of you guys strong on this kind of stuff? Any ideas. Google has nothing to say.
> 
> The spots are about as pronounced on the other side, probably an inch thick or so.
> 
> Nice Cherry crotch burl in the other board shown.
> 
> I will be planing them, so it kind of fits the thread.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE
> 
> After posting, I study the board a bit more and there are tiny holes for each Black spot. I have to assume that there is a beetle that secretes waste causing the stain, much like an Ambrosia beetle does to Ambrosia Maple. Guess I should study a bit more before posting.
> 
> In the Persimmon, I don t recall any holes, so that remain a mystery.
> 
> - RWE
> 
> - Bill White


Thanks Bill. I have been our traveling and don't use my phone to post. I found a remnant of the Persimmon with the black coloration that I was speaking about and it is shown in the picture below. I also saw the post about planes with an R designation. I believe that mine is a Rockford (related to Marsh, both in Illinois) plane. I have one Lakeside and it did not have the R designation mentioned, but who knows.

I believe Sansoo has restored some Rockford planes and he knows a bit about their origins.

Persimmon with Ebony colored streaks and Rockford R6 plane:


----------



## MikeB_UK

An action shot only Kenny could love.

A Millers Falls 900 flattening construction lumber.


----------



## Lazyman

Not enough red on that plane for Kenny.


----------



## corelz125

Even Kenny doesn't like the 900 series


----------



## rad457

Think I have one of them, sitting next too the Handyman The Bailey kinda looks down on them as long as Big Brother 604 is nearby Above them all the Veritas sits high on the shelf, not really wanting to get too close to any of the wood I can afford these days?


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Even Kenny doesn t like the 900 series
> 
> - corelz125


No one does, that's why you can get them so cheap 

I think it has a bit of a bad rep, it's certainly one of the better budget planes I've used, though the handle is a bit close to the adjuster for my knuckles.


----------



## HokieKen

No V lines for the cheap ass ;-) Though the V line block plane DonW sent me in the Santa swap is a keeper


----------



## HokieKen

Opinion time! I've decided to go off the reservation a bit on this router plane. Mine was either nickel plated or gray enameled originally. It had so much rust and dirt that I can't tell which. In either case, it's getting black enamel because I like it 

The ones that were originally black like the one Nathan posted:



> - Lazyman


could have had a nicel plated collar or black enameled one. As far as I know, all that came with the fence had a nickeled fence.

But, this guy is going in the till with my MF bench planes that all have red frogs and red fill behind the name on the lever cap. So I'm contemplating adding a little sexy to the router plane so he doesn't feel out of place.

I'm considering 3 different options. Here they are frome simplest to hardest to do:

Paint the cutter collar red and leave the rest black.








Fill the space behind the letters on the top face with red and sand the raised letters back to bare metal.








Paint everything black, sand the raised letters on the bridge back and then paint just the letters with red.








Some comination of the first 3?

Got a vote? Speak now! I'll carefully tally all opinions and consider whichever gets the most votes the winner. Then I'll do whatever I want anyway ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Red in-fill…WHITE lettering


----------



## drsurfrat

black w red letters


----------



## MikeB_UK

Fill the space red, paint the letters black, so just the lowspots in the boxes are red.

Not sure how that works on the bridge, but hell, I'm not the one painting it


----------



## rad457

Option # 2 an then if it doesn't look right, white lettering? (Black Base coat)


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Purple with white letters? as this klutz quickly hides under his desk…...

OK, a serious suggestion:

Black base coat, followed with Holographic Pearl in clear coat, or ShellShock Pearl in Clear Coat.
Both are affordable as you only need a few grams. :-(0)

Didspade linked above is a local supplier. If you are a fan of old school, candy, pearl, or metal flake; custom vehicle paint jobs; visiting the show room is like a kid visiting a candy store. I used some of their silver flake and green pearl on 1970's metallic green Powermatic 66 TS paint job. 

Cheers!


----------



## HokieKen

There will be no white letters. Sorry but I've never seen it done on a plane that didn't make me a little sad.


----------



## bandit571

Black with red letters? Didn't Stanley use that on a small mitre box? Hmmm..


----------



## KelleyCrafts

You know my opinion and it's the right one.


----------



## Lazyman

You missed a couple
5. Red flames. 
6 cast some red nobs ala Buck Rodgers - you already got a mold :

Actually, I would paint both the collar and the name letters red. If that's too much, just the collar.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Nathan, that was exactly my suggestion. Do the collar and if you can do it well, do the millers falls letters across the bridge.


----------



## HokieKen

For some reason, I feel like a red colllar will stick out like a sore thumb. But it's easy enough to repaint so what the hell. I'll start with the collar then make a call on the letters after I see how that looks.

On an unrelated plane project…. Anybody know what these will be when they grow up?


----------



## corelz125

I vote black collar and red letters. I know what those are.


----------



## corelz125

Sometimes you just need big shoulder's. Not perfect has a repair on the top took a bit of work to get it flat but it's back to work.


----------



## sansoo22

Half of my V&B experiment came out pretty darn good.









The other half not so much.









The grey went on a few shades darker than it dried. That was disappointment number one. The second disappointment was performance. The iron has gone soft it seems. Either they weren't stellar to begin with or sometime throughout its lifetime it lost its temper.


----------



## HokieKen

I need a good shoulder plane Corelz. I had it in mind to make my own but I'll probably end up buying one instead because I don't seem to have time to do 1/10 of the projects I "plan" to do.

As you see, I did at least get started on one of the projects I've had on the list for several months now ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Dang Sansoo! That gold looks awesome! I'm not a fan of industrial gray tools but everything else looks great  Is that gray the original color?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Love the gold Sansoo. Seriously love it. The grey is meh unfortunately unless that was the original color.


----------



## sansoo22

This is a later model V&B that came with grey body, black frog, and gold/brass infill. I contemplated making it all black like the earlier versions but I wanted to try and stay true to the plane as best I could. The grey should be a bit darker but for the life of me I had trouble finding a grey that was the right color and also a nice durable finish.

The body is also forged steel instead of cast iron. I'm not going to test it but it could probably handle falling off the bench without breaking.


----------



## corelz125

Looking for a wood or metal shoulder plane Kenny? I think they are under rated. I use one quite often..

I have one V&B the front is shifted about 1/8" from the back. It happen during shipping so they are durable.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

You keeping that one Sansoo? Maybe throw a Hock blade in it and it should be good regardless yeah?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I have the medium shoulder from Veritas and a woodriver one that's really small I received in a bundle of things. I tend to grab the medium one the most but I do use them far more than I thought I would.


----------



## ac0rn

Sansoo, Welcome back. Eye candy.


----------



## controlfreak

Planning on paying a visit to Ed's tool store on Friday. Might be fun!


----------



## Lazyman

I didn't realize that the Woodwright School was so close to Raleigh. I was there last summer. I'll be interested to hear what Ed's prices are like with the crazy prices on eBay these days.


----------



## corelz125

Taking orders CF?


----------



## HokieKen

Sunday morning hemorrhoid…









I understand why nobody makes these things, they're a PITA! That and the fact there are probably only 4 people that own a 444…


----------



## HokieKen

Gettin there though!


----------



## corelz125

There's at least 3 owners in this room. Smitty need one? Put your order in now while he's making them.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> There s at least 3 owners in this room. Smitty need one? Put your order in now while he s making them.
> 
> - corelz125


Nope, mine is complete. Yes, they're a pain to find if missing, and Kenny's doing a great thing. Very nice.


----------



## HokieKen

Oh, it's way too late to put in an order now. These are a one-time deal. I did ask Smitty before I started though just to be sure ;-)


----------



## corelz125

I've only seen one of them come up for sale once. It sold pretty quick.


----------



## controlfreak

Had something come up with my Stanley No. 78 this weekend. As I was getting to the depth limit I kept seeing a scar on the piece. Originally I thought it came from my sash plane. It was really bugging me. I scrutinized the 78 and was so focused with the retracted knicker to see if the screw was out a bit that I missed the the chip breaker had moved out a tad and was the culprit. I think it may be time to give it some TLC and a rehab.


----------



## HokieKen

Can you not just rotate the lever cap a bit CF? Don't get me wrong, I'm not discouraging a rehab. Just think it may be more than is strictly necessary in this case.


----------



## Sylvain

> Had something come up with my Stanley No. 78 this weekend. As I was getting to the depth limit I kept seeing a scar on the piece. Originally I thought it came from my sash plane. It was really bugging me. I scrutinized the 78 and was so focused with the retracted knicker to see if the screw was out a bit that I missed the the chip breaker had moved out a tad and was the culprit. I think it may be time to give it some TLC and a rehab.
> 
> - controlfreak


read this blog and look for the before last paragraph "warning" 
and the before last picture.
https://paulsellers.com/2016/05/rebate-plane-no1-78-filletster-plane/
There is nothing to rehab; one has just to verify this when assembling/setting the plane.


----------



## Notw

So I've been collecting hand planes now for a while, during this time I have refined how I restore my hand planes and how I like them to look at the end (i.e. they all have walnut knobs and handles, etc.) I am now in the process of going back through the earlier ones and restoring them up to the level of the last ones. After this I plan to build a hand plane till for them since I have a full set from 1-8 with half and quarter sizes. Other than thrown on a shelf or a bin, what are some cool ideas for hand plane tills you guys have?


----------



## drsurfrat

There are plenty of examples here.

https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/tag/saw+till

I especially like adot45's
edit: it isn't a project, and I can't find it by searching, sorry


----------



## adot45

Thank You Mike, I'm flattered. Here is a couple of pictures. 
















I've got room for a #1 but unless I find one in the wild it isn't going to happen.


----------



## Mosquito

I think you mean unless you find one in the wild from someone without internet, or access to other people lol


----------



## HokieKen

Just the internet Mos'. I don't know a single person that I didn't meet online that could tell me what a Stanley #1 is ;-) Access to other people is overrated anyway.


----------



## corelz125

Have to find the person like the one I bought a #8 from that had it as a block plane.


----------



## controlfreak

> Can you not just rotate the lever cap a bit CF? Don t get me wrong, I m not discouraging a rehab. Just think it may be more than is strictly necessary in this case.
> 
> - HokieKen


Oh I know I can adjust but I am mostly done with it on this project. It has a little rust on the rod and screws so I want to tune and clean it. I obviously need to get more familiar with all of its parts. May not go so deep as to make it purdy.


----------



## Notw

Adot, do you like having the cabinet for a till or do you find the doors never close?


----------



## adot45

My doors are always closed as the planes in there are "my collection". Things would get dusty fast with no doors. Doors would be a hindrance for someone that was constantly grabbing a plane to use I'd think. I have a few planes that stay handy as users that live near my bench. I'll admit that I don't use planes a lot, but I do enjoy them. I hope I understood your question Notw.


----------



## Notw

Thank you Adot, I see a lot of hand tool cabinets but I worry for using them everyday if the doors would ever get closed and if they don't get closed then what's the point of the extra time and cost making doors?


----------



## BlasterStumps

The tool cabinets I have now don't have doors. Just open boxes.


----------



## MikeB_UK

You mean you're meant to open & close the doors?

I just use them for extra storage.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Mike, your brace drill next to the breast drill caught my eye. What make is it? Looks like it might be a Skinner.


----------



## bandit571

My Tool Chests/Tils stay closed…unless I am digging around for a tool, or, putting tools away…Shop has no room to leave a door open. Get in, get out, shut the door behind you.

I am able to do an "About FACE!" from my bench, face the tool cabinet, open one or both doors, grab what I need…close the door(s) and turn around, right back to work..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Point, counter point, but I like my doors. They're not only kept closed when not in use, but locked as well. There's something therapeutic behind the simple act of opening the cabinet and getting to work.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Mike, your brace drill next to the breast drill caught my eye. What make is it? Looks like it might be a Skinner.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


It's not a Skinner, not entirely sure what make it is actually.








The logo is kind of worn off, probably B&B

The French one doesn't have a name, the 4 Jaw one is Flott.









Elsewhere I've got a very ugly 3 jaw eastern european one hiding in a cupboard and a Toga corner brace that seemed like a good idea at the time but has never been used.
Here's everything (I think) but the corner brace


----------



## Mosquito

My tool storage is almost all open, with 3 "junk drawers" for misc stuff without a home yet too. Mainly because I haven't had time to design and build anything else yet, but I really want to. And intend to put doors on it.

Though I do really like the aesthetic of my current configuration, and it's been a "familiar" background in my videos and what not that I've rather liked. Will be a little sad to see it go lol


----------



## Notw

I can see myself building a cabinet, hanging it over my bench, starting a large project on the bench and then not being able to open the cabinet to get my tools out, haha


----------



## Mosquito

I've always liked having my tools behind me, with a small rack of stuff on one back corner of the bench for the mallets and squares. Making gauges, marking knives, bench brush, and some pencils, screwdrivers, scissors, and pliers are permanent staples in the tool well or tool cup hanging off of it in that same corner too.

Otherwise, I've found I prefer looking out in to the shop rather than the wall, since I have no windows. Plus it's easier to setup to shoot video lol


----------



## RWE

I guess I am a "hybrid" on tool cabinets.

I picked up this cabinet at an Estate Sale. The original owner used it for some hobby tools. Makes a decent plane cabinet. 
*Note: Pardon the 90 degree rotation on some of the pictures.*




























My shop is a dusty mess. Ever so often I wipe down or use the air hose to circulate the dust around a bit.

I only have room for the tool panels at the back of my bench. There is a tool well mounted below the panels but free of the bench. I keep bench dogs, mallets, drills etc. in the well.










Larger planes and braces with varying sweeps









Panel saws and back saws:









Saw till that i wish could be closed. May scrap it at some point and put a conventional hanging tool cabinet in its place. Need to sell some saws. I favor the panel saws now. I had/have a saw "problem" at one point.
Top cabinet holds combination planes and related parts.


----------



## Notw

Not all of us are movie stars Mos


----------



## BlasterStumps

MikeB, thanks for sharing the pictures. Looks like a nice group of handy tools.


----------



## bandit571

Someone found a high spot…









Might give it more work tomorrow….


----------



## corelz125

Watched a Kunz 112 sell for $66 last night. Had the red plastic handles. Surprised it went for that low of a price.


----------



## HokieKen

95% done









100% sure I won't be making more ;-)


----------



## BlasterStumps

Good work as usual Kenny. I'm anxious to see in the plane and what they do.

RWE, that's a serious collection of tools you have there. I don't have room for a tall plane cabinet like you show but if I did, I would have to copy your's. It's cool. Is that a 608 I see on the shelf?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Mos, I been looking at the shop picture you showed. I'm impressed with your organization and neatness. I've seen other pictures of your tools and I know you have some stunners. I really like the plane till too. Looks like you used T-track. Cool. I have been thinking about building another one that I would set on the new bench. Something small for about 4 planes. A till takes some work. 
anyway, nice tool assortment.


----------



## corelz125

Mike those parts Kenny is working on are spur blocks for a #444.


----------



## HokieKen

> Good work as usual Kenny. I m anxious to see in the plane and what they do. …
> 
> - BlasterStumps


They mount on the side of the 444 to put a nicker even with the edges of wider blades Mike. I don't fully grasp how they work exactly but luckily I was loaned some originals to copy


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos, I been looking at the shop picture you showed. I m impressed with your organization and neatness. I ve seen other pictures of your tools and I know you have some stunners. I really like the plane till too. Looks like you used T-track. Cool. I have been thinking about building another one that I would set on the new bench. Something small for about 4 planes. A till takes some work.
> anyway, nice tool assortment.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Thanks Mike, that's one of the views of the shop that makes me feel happy just looking at it 

Yeah, I used t-track and 80/20 extrusions for the dividers (can still use t-bolts in it, but I could get custom cut sizes)


----------



## controlfreak

I think I had one of those 444's in my hand at Ed's tool shop but didn't know what to make of it. It was worth the trip. I picked up a nice 7PPI rip saw, a 78 to make into a scrub plane, MF egg beater, panel gauge and half set of H&R.


----------



## corelz125

CF if you looked at the price of a complete 444 you would of probably put it right back down


----------



## corelz125

Some big ticket items right out of the gate in the CanIHaveIt facebook page this weekend. Two Stanley 72's and a Stanley 51 that looks like it just came out of the factory.


----------



## controlfreak

> CF if you looked at the price of a complete 444 you would of probably put it right back down
> 
> - corelz125


Wasn't complete but when I wanted a 78 to make into a scrub plane he dug one out for $15, I had a lot of fun there.


----------



## DevinT

Remind me to post pictures tomorrow, about the following …

So, I am in chapter 12 of my big book on the history, form, and function of wooden planes (a thick hard cover book from the 80's that covers everything you ever wanted to know and then about 10 more chapters of stuff nobody alive that isn't a rhykenologist would know).

NOTE: Chapter 11 was a scintillating repetitive act involving countless utterances of Astragal, Ogee, and Cavetto (or Cove), among others as hundreds of complex moldings were covered. I did my best to use voice inflection when announcing the systematic names for each profile, whilst reading to my child. I thank my spouse for silently suffering through that chapter, read aloud.

Chapter 12 covers other types of tools that make shavings that are neither a bench plane (being defined as a plane where the shaving ejects out the top of the plane) or side escapement plane. In this grouping is of course the router plane.

But, hold up a moment.

There are like 7 different types of router planes apparently, according to the book. Many I have seen, such as the Granny's (or Old Woman's) Tooth router plane, but …

I was interested to learn that there is an all wooden (minus cutter, of course) version of what is traditionally called just a "router plane." It looks like a coffin plane, but one cannot be made from a coffin plane.

I have never seen one in real life, though to be honest this book has so many planes I have never seen before, it is ridiculous.

For example, a spelk is the name used for a thick shaving. Spelks were often used in making baskets. There was a spelk plane for cutting these really thick shavings (and it was the craziest looking plane you've ever seen with upwards of 8 different handles mounted all over the thing like some octopus was expected to operate it).


----------



## rad457

Snagged a VBM 408 on Fee Bay to replace my Broke M.F. #8, Kinda sucks that it costs more to ship it than to buy?
Wonder what a cracked M.F. #8 is worth for parts


----------



## DevinT

My cratex mandrels arrived. Now I just need to order some Cratex 1351-M for testing the claim (from a machinist handbook) that engine turning cast iron inexplicably makes it resistant to corrosion (in other words, jeweled iron doesn't rust, is the claim in a nutshell).

If you may recall, I had 2 jocks send me their unfixable plane soles, knowing full well that I was going to strip them of all rust and patina, take them up to a mirror finish, then apply engine turning using a Shaper Origin.

If it works as this book on machining suggests, then - because I have a Shaper Origin - I can try doing something other than a boring old circle-overlap. Maybe something like a wave pattern. Herring bone. Whatever.

I also am going to see how true the statement is (from the same book) that cast iron should be milled dry. That is especially attractive to Shaper Origin (a dry CNC system; opposed to a wet CNC system like Tormach PCNC). I also want to experiment with antiquing cast iron post-engraving.

Who knows, maybe I might end up with something that has been:

In order:
1. Polished to a mirror finish
2. Engraved
3. Antiqued
4. Re-polished back to mirror finish (leaving the engraving antiqued)
5. Engine turned

Which should leave a finish that is both engraved and fully rust resistant. Then you throw some WIP over it and it will surely never rust and probably look pretty amazing.


----------



## DevinT

Coolest part about the above is that I will be mounting my grandpa's machinist vise onto my Shaper Workstation. Oh what a sight that will be!


----------



## corelz125

That sounds like an upgrade Andre going to the VBM. The Sargents go for a lot les than Stanley's sometimes. I got one or two that the shipping was more than the plane. That wasn't crossing the border either just a few states.


----------



## HokieKen

> Snagged a VBM 408 on Fee Bay to replace my Broke M.F. #8, Kinda sucks that it costs more to ship it than to buy?
> Wonder what a cracked M.F. #8 is worth for parts
> 
> - Andre


If it's got brass hardware and Cocobolo wood, it might be worth a little bit  Let me know!


----------



## MikeB_UK

> I was interested to learn that there is an all wooden (minus cutter, of course) version of what is traditionally called just a "router plane." It looks like a coffin plane, but one cannot be made from a coffin plane.
> - DevinT


One like this?
Always assumed they were a hinge mortise plane.


----------



## HokieKen

Stick a fork in these SOBs.


----------



## corelz125

You deserve to drink a few of those crappy IPA's after making those.


----------



## HokieKen

The beer fridge is currently stocked with a new IPA from Blue Moon. So that may be exactly what I'm drinking tonight - crappy IPA. But a crappy IPA is better than most other beers ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Have a Yuengling Traditional Lager sitting on my desk, at the moment….while trying to figure out where to sit..









This…..

project is done, need to go back and put away all the toys….sharpen all the ones that need it….will be at least a week before any more lumber gets to the shop….

Can NOT stand IPA"beers"....there IS a reason Guinness does not brew any….


----------



## corelz125

> The beer fridge is currently stocked with a new IPA from Blue Moon. So that may be exactly what I'm drinking tonight - crappy IPA. But a crappy IPA is better than most other beers ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


I'll stick with Guinness


----------



## DevinT

> I was interested to learn that there is an all wooden (minus cutter, of course) version of what is traditionally called just a "router plane." It looks like a coffin plane, but one cannot be made from a coffin plane.
> - DevinT
> 
> One like this?
> Always assumed they were a hinge mortise plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - MikeB_UK


YES! That's exactly it. First real one I have ever seen besides the drawing in the book (The Wooden Plane, by John M. Whelan).


----------



## corelz125

I've seen plenty of ones like the one on page 311. Fig 12:27 looks similar to those Cowryman router planes


----------



## Mosquito

Those look great Kenny, I'm excited


----------



## controlfreak

I like to hang out in the IPA zone.

I need to build a shelf soon for my molding planes and maybe some side rails on the plane till for the No.8 and LAJ. I need to up my game on tool storage to save room.


----------



## HokieKen

This makes me a little sad.


----------



## HokieKen

See you in the zone CF! I had one of the Blue Moon IPAs last night. It was actually pretty good


----------



## controlfreak

> See you in the zone CF! I had one of the Blue Moon IPAs last night. It was actually pretty good
> 
> - HokieKen


Goose Island IPA at the moment, I had to wait till 11:30 because the big diet is supposed to start Monday. I need to walk to the Gym at 4:30 in the morning, I'll let you know how that goes.

Spreading mulch this morning and cleaning out closets, two of my favorites. One of the blessings of 100 year + house is small closets. Have to store the offseason clothes in containers.


----------



## Johnny7

> This makes me a little sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


That's not sad, *this* is sad …


----------



## theoldfart

There're both sad. The first more so the hands of someone with no clue.


----------



## DanKrager

A little Easter Sunday relaxation with "family"...the 444 in action to help hold the brace till together securely. Five strokes across the end completes one surface of the sliding tail. A router will be used to create the tail dado in the sides of the case. The sides will be clamped back to back inside up with a spacer between and the cut will start at the back edge (the center of the clamped "panel") and proceed to a stop. Using an adjustable home made dado jig like this will guarantee a close fit and side to side vertical alignment.


















This till is being built without using a ruler, only a story stick.

DanK


----------



## corelz125

Thats a nice 444 Dan. Impressive not using a ruler.


----------



## rad457

> Snagged a VBM 408 on Fee Bay to replace my Broke M.F. #8, Kinda sucks that it costs more to ship it than to buy?
> Wonder what a cracked M.F. #8 is worth for parts
> 
> - Andre
> 
> If it's got brass hardware and Cocobolo wood, it might be worth a little bit  Let me know!
> 
> - HokieKen


Nope #8 an #10 steel, #9 an #14 Brass (Better)

On a side note that #444 appears to be working mighty fine! Don't ever remember seeing a tape or ruler during my time at Inside Passage, still transfer most measurements by way of the stick. Extra fine Sharpies work well.


----------



## HokieKen

> This makes me a little sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> That s not sad, *this* is sad …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Johnny7


They're both sad but the Stanley is something I'm accustomed to seeing. I've never seen the Millers Falls logo on something so obviously not made in Massachusetts. Even during the IR years stuff bearing the brand was at a minimum "respectable-adjacent." I did a deep dive on their history a while ago and was aware that the rights to the name had been purchased by some Asian conglomerate in the 90's but I don't think I've ever actually seen it applied to anything by said owner.

I'm truly considering buying those carabiners so I can destroy the evidence…


----------



## HokieKen

Dan K, it's exciting to see the 444 eating wood  They're rarely spotted at all and even less often in use. And even when they're spotted in use, I think it's primarily just YouTube demonstrations (don't get me wrong, I love those and have spent hours watching them for various old tools Mos' ;-p). I love seeing it make something


----------



## corelz125

Most people have now idea who Millers Falls is now.


----------



## HokieKen

> Those look great Kenny, I m excited
> 
> - Mosquito


Coming soon to a mailbox near you ;-)


----------



## bandit571

There is a debate going on at another site….

IF after spending all those "hours" to get the back of a plane's iron flat…..

Do you spend any time at all, flattening the side that rests on the face of the frog….that you also flattened?

Hmmm….


----------



## Mosquito

don't worry Kenny, I'd love to see mine making something too, but I need my spur blocks


----------



## Mosquito

> There is a debate going on at another site….
> 
> IF after spending all those "hours" to get the back of a plane s iron flat…..
> 
> Do you spend any time at all, flattening the side that rests on the face of the frog….that you also flattened?
> 
> Hmmm….
> 
> - bandit571


I never flatten the entire back, just enough to make a flat mating surface for the chip breaker and a sharp edge, so no. I think whoever says you have to, doesn't understand the purpose of flattening the back of the iron


----------



## controlfreak

I have a lot of clean up and learning to do on my latest shop addition. I had a lot of fun in Ed's tool store.


----------



## HokieKen

> There is a debate going on at another site….
> 
> IF after spending all those "hours" to get the back of a plane s iron flat…..
> 
> Do you spend any time at all, flattening the side that rests on the face of the frog….that you also flattened?
> 
> Hmmm….
> 
> - bandit571
> 
> I never flatten the entire back, just enough to make a flat mating surface for the chip breaker and a sharp edge, so no. I think whoever says you have to, doesn t understand the purpose of flattening the back of the iron
> 
> - Mosquito


+1. The lever cap is going to force it to take the shape of the frog anyway unless it's a really thick iron. Which is why I make sure the frog is flat. I'll make sure there's no bend or twist in the iron but otherwise, I just make sure the back is flat for the last 1/2" to an inch next to the cutting edge.


----------



## Johnny7

If I read this right, you guys (Kenny, Mos) are talking about flattening the *entire* back (as opposed to just the last ½")-Pretty sure he's referring to flattening the other side-the "bevel" side of the blade


----------



## Mosquito

Correct Johnny. And what I also don't do. I don't flatten the entire back of an iron, because it's mostly pointless, so I don't flatten the front (bevel) side either, because it's similarly pointless as far as I'm concerned


----------



## Johnny7

> Correct Johnny. And what I also don t do. I don t flatten the entire back of an iron, because it s mostly pointless, so I don t flatten the front (bevel) side either, because it s similarly pointless as far as I m concerned
> 
> - Mosquito


I agree with your philosophy


----------



## BlasterStumps

How many of you pop the pin out of the frog so you can flatten the frog surface for the iron? I don't know if I can see good enough to try it. I would probably break an ear off. : (


----------



## corelz125

I replaced a couple of yokes and it's a little tense putting that pinback in. I try to avoid taking them out. It feels like you never know when that next tap and bang pieces everywhere.


----------



## Mosquito

I've done it a few times as well, but similarly avoid it when I can. It's pretty easy to file around.

If I had the ability to make my own thumb wheels, though, that I would probably replace more often lol


----------



## HokieKen

Removing and replacing the yoke pin in the frog is pretty straightforward. Just make sure you drive it the right direction.


----------



## sansoo22

I don't have any issue with the yoke pin. They come out pretty easy as long as you follows Ken's advice and remove it the right direction and then remember to reverse that when reinstalling.

Now the pin for the lateral lever can be a bit more problematic and if done incorrectly will crack your frog. The simplest of things like not removing any excess paint out of that tiny hole before installation can crack the frog. I've removed the lateral lever on about a dozen planes and cracked 2 frogs. First time i chalked it up to a fluke. Second time I started rethinking what I was doing wrong. Since cleaning the hole in the frog and removing any left over peen from the pin it's been a complete success. Luckily the 2 i cracked were type 16s and easy enough to hunt down broken bodies with good frogs as replacements.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm not flattening the face (bevel side) of a plane's iron (blade, cutter, whatever) either. No friggin' way. Can't imagine a performance issue that would be significant enough to register with the user by having any less that 100% contact between face and frog that's manifested by non-flat iron.


----------



## HokieKen

The pin in the lever cap is a bit of bear too. I've only removed it once and won't again unless I have to. It's dang near impossible to get it back in so it matches the contour of the sides exactly.


----------



## HokieKen

What's so wrong with a flat face Smitty?


----------



## donwilwol

for that to make sense wouldn't you need to flatten the lever cap too? And remove the lever and tighten the screw?


----------



## corelz125

Guess because it doesn't make sense Don.


----------



## Sylvain

The frog and face of the cutting iron don't need to be flat.

Although, the cutting-iron/cap-iron assembly must be able to slide between the lever-cap and the frog.
So it is important to remove any burr that might cause hard point in the movement.

This makes it easier to find the sweet spot for the setting screw of the lever-cap.

Removing burr doesn't mean flat or mirror finish of course.
So I remove any burr from
- the frog;
- the cutting iron (edges and edges of the slot);
- top of the cap-iron;
- edge of the lever-cap;
- underside of the springy leaf under the lever.

I don't polish the external faces of the cutting-iron/cap-iron assembly or frog but I spend about one minute to soften the machining marks with some sand paper.

Anyway, small irregularities will create some little pools for oil.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Here are some plane pics for today. I must have been in a mood or something because I think I have three planes coming this week and I rarely buy planes because I don't collect them, just users. This one came from the other side of the Atlantic.





































Looks like it's been barely used or never used. The 1/4" cutter does have a weird bend to it.










Also included as it should be, is the cutter hold screw. However, I'm not actually sure where it goes and why it's needed. Maybe larger blades or the tongue and groove?


----------



## Mosquito

very nice Dave, looks like a fine example


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Thanks, It'll be a user. Any input on that cutter hold down screw? The cutter stays in as it is right now. Not sure where it would go but it is on the pamphlet as part of the plane.


----------



## bandit571

Over the past few decades of doing Plane Rehabs…..Have come across more than a few irons that needed flattened on both faces…to the point they would rock on the face of the frog. Most times, an iron would be concave on one face..with a matching convex on the other face. I do not mirror polish the bevel face….just enough to get it smooth.

Rather than "force" an iron down flat onto the frog….I prefer the iron to be able to move smoothly..both for setting the depth, and the lateral…would rather not have to crank on things just to get them to move.

I also grind a "knife edge" on the chipbreaker, where it sits onto the iron. I do " crank" the chipbreaker down to the iron…to where it will SLIGHTLY deform that edge…eliminates gaps, that way.

Kept wondering on 1 plane.. why I could keep cranking the depth adjuster, and still not cut….chipbreaker was being pushed over the edge…because the bolt holding the 2 parts together was quite tight enough.

Have seen a few irons with either a "reverse camber, or it was doing the "wave" like this ~

Lost track of how many planes I have seen with the chipbreaker on the wrong face of the iron.

The idea behind doing both faces is more about balance…it even helped a Stanley No. 8c achieve see-through shavings….

Also…sometimes, an iron will sit nicely on a frog…in the center of the iron…but not out at the corners…


----------



## bandit571

Stanley No. 8c..









and..









Edge jointing Ash..









Millers Falls No. 9, test drive…


----------



## sansoo22

I have a customer plane I'm working on now that had an iron doing the "wave"...that was not fun to get straightened back out. Mainly because they sharpened it and were trying to use it which meant working very carefully around something I'm trying to bend flat with force.

I have noticed several of my old Stanley irons have a dimpled feel to them. Like they were hammered flat with giant ball peen hammer on an anvil. Doesn't typically affect the tempered section or how they perform but if you wanted to flatten those entirely you're going to be at it awhile…or need a surface grinder.


----------



## HokieKen

The laminated blades that Stanley used are more likely to have a "hitch in their giddyup" than the solid tool steel irons Millers Falls used. Just sayin ;-)


----------



## CO_Goose

Dave,

The answer to your question of the extra holder screw comes from Patrick's Blood and Gore,

"There is one slight problem with this design of sandwiching the cutter between two castings to hold the cutter in place, and that is that the narrowest two ploughing cutters (1/8" and 3/16") aren't wide enough to be secured in this manner. A holding screw was added when these two cutters were provided starting ca. 1936. The holding screw has a head that measures 3/4" in diameter, and it's this wide head that holds the cutter in place; the sliding section is removed, and the holding screw is substituted. The same wing nut that pulls the sliding section up against the left edge of the cutter also pulls the holding screw's head against the left edge of the cutter. The holding screw is normally MIA."

Goose.



> Also included as it should be, is the cutter hold screw. However, I'm not actually sure where it goes and why it's needed. Maybe larger blades or the tongue and groove?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


----------



## donwilwol

This piece came to me from Al. Definitely one of my rarer pieces.

It's back in the archive somewhere.


----------



## controlfreak

Started to clean up my Stanley 78 rebate plane last night. Had a little mild surface rust on the rod so I chucked it in a drill with some 220 grit paper and got it looking good. So I have ended up with a rusty cap knurled knob and some very mild rut on the iron top around the logo area. The lever also has a few splotches but looks like a pain to get off if even possible. What do you think my best clean up options are for these? I have a brass wire wheel on a bench grinder and a Dremel that I can fit a wire wheel on. So I guess I am asking Evaporust, wire wheel or something else? Not going for a shiny restore but wanting to check any rust while still mild.


----------



## corelz125

> This piece came to me from Al. Definitely one of my rarer pieces.
> 
> It s back in the archive somewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Don W


Interesting Don. Guess that would work well on a shooting plane.


----------



## HokieKen

Soft wire wheel on the grinder is always my first stop for steel parts CF.


----------



## controlfreak

Been looking for a round bottom spokeshave but the flea bay prices are getting to far up there for me. Anybody have a new one that works well? I looked up Kunz and the are reasonable but do they preform well. Also not sure how good I am with John Deere green either.


----------



## Mosquito

I've got a Veritas round and flat spoke shave. I've been happy with them, with no complaints. The Lie-Nielsen Boggs spoke shaves are nicely made, but for my money I'd stick with the Veritas, because of the depth adjustments.

The Pinnacle ones are pretty nice too. I've been able to try those out at my local Woodcraft and they felt pretty good. The irons in those are exceptional. I've never gotten to try one, but I'd be curious to hear anyone that's had hands on the new Clifton ones too.

But all of those are considerably more expensive than Kuntz. I'm wondering if you could get the Kuntz and get an upgraded iron for it down the road if that was the weak link.

A rattle can can fix the color


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> Dave,
> 
> The answer to your question of the extra holder screw comes from Patrick s Blood and Gore,
> 
> "There is one slight problem with this design of sandwiching the cutter between two castings to hold the cutter in place, and that is that the narrowest two ploughing cutters (1/8" and 3/16") aren t wide enough to be secured in this manner. A holding screw was added when these two cutters were provided starting ca. 1936. The holding screw has a head that measures 3/4" in diameter, and it s this wide head that holds the cutter in place; the sliding section is removed, and the holding screw is substituted. The same wing nut that pulls the sliding section up against the left edge of the cutter also pulls the holding screw s head against the left edge of the cutter. The holding screw is normally MIA."
> 
> Goose.
> 
> Also included as it should be, is the cutter hold screw. However, I'm not actually sure where it goes and why it's needed. Maybe larger blades or the tongue and groove?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - KelleyCrafts
> 
> - CO_Goose


Thanks Goose. I should have looked at Patrick's site first before asking. Totally makes sense now because with the little skate added, there's literally nowhere this can go so that at least clears that up.

I'm looking forward to using this guy in place of setting up a 45 for small tasks.


----------



## Notw

> Been looking for a round bottom spokeshave but the flea bay prices are getting to far up there for me. Anybody have a new one that works well? I looked up Kunz and the are reasonable but do they preform well. Also not sure how good I am with John Deere green either.
> 
> - controlfreak


I've got two of the Kunz, other than the color they work fine, I am tempted next time I refurb a handplane and paint it to paint them too. That being said i have no others to compare to, the veritas handles look a lot more comfortable


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Been looking for a round bottom spokeshave but the flea bay prices are getting to far up there for me. Anybody have a new one that works well? I looked up Kunz and the are reasonable but do they preform well. Also not sure how good I am with John Deere green either.


The LN Boggs one is nice, and the HNT Gordon round spokeshaves are dreamy. In both cases I have the blade adjusted so it's a thicker cut on one edge and thinner on the other. The MF cigar shave is… tricky. I've never managed to get my old blade corrected from mistakes made sharpening it by previous owners, but I'm told they're great if working correctly. But the Kunz isn't horrible, and I reach for mine if the Gordon and LN are both dull. It doesn't feel as nice, but it'll do the job.


----------



## rad457

> Been looking for a round bottom spokeshave but the flea bay prices are getting to far up there for me. Anybody have a new one that works well? I looked up Kunz and the are reasonable but do they preform well. Also not sure how good I am with John Deere green either.
> 
> - controlfreak


I picked up the Kunz, flat and round bottom, work fine with a little tuning: ) My personal favorite are the Brass L.N.set.
Did squeeze in some Hock irons so very tight mouth that is great for more delicate work, think I had to file open the curved one just a little? Lee Valley/Veritas sells the same size round bottom with a PMV-11 blade which now gets 90% of the use.


----------



## DevinT

I love my Veritas PM-V11 flat spokeshave. It's *really* good at contouring things to an arbitrary shape and stays sharp, not to mention the feel in the hand.


----------



## DanKrager

The 78 in a seldom used configuration. Note the story stick in background.










It looks like chisel work is required.










DanK


----------



## RWE

Just visited a neighbor who had two planes inherited from his Grandfather. One is a Stanley 9 1/2 Block and the other is this Mohawk/Shelburne. I have never laid eyes on one of these. I believe that I have seen ads for them in old Popular Mechanics and such.

Anyone have info on the brand? Has an L shaped lateral adjust lever. The adjusting nut is 1 1/4 wide. Seems to sport a Black and Red color scheme. As a Georgia fan, i have to love that!!

I suppose somewhere in the old advertisements will be something about a "Mohawk scalping some wood".

Seems better than a lot of the second tier lines I have seen (Par Plus, Millers Falls 300 etc.). I assume it was respectable, but not a high volume seller.





































Who made them? What time period were they sold etc. I will Google about it, but I figure some of you fellows would know about them.

I am just going to sharpen the iron for the young man. I like the patina and that is the way he got it from Grandpa.


----------



## corelz125

Millers Falls made them


----------



## RWE

Yes, I just saw that. Was scanning Ebay to see what was up. OK Kenny. What is the skinny on this line? Is it the Millers Falls Handyman line or what?


----------



## corelz125

Pretty much RWE its the same class and the 900 series


----------



## HokieKen

That's about the size of it. Mohawk were Millers Falls economy line early on. Eventually they got folded into the Millers Falls name and became the V-Line planes.


----------



## RWE

> That's about the size of it. Mohawk were Millers Falls economy line early on. Eventually they got folded into the Millers Falls name and became the V-Line planes.
> 
> - HokieKen


My neighbor doesn't want to do a full refurb, sentimental value. I may just have to get one for the "deplorables" collection. I have been giving some thought to building a display case for them. Many are not truly deplorable, but just a plane that I would not use in the shop either because it would not work well or because it is in such restored shape and somewhat rare, that I would not want to mess it up.

Thanks for the info guys. The little 9 1/2 is cleaning up well and is in good shape.

I do like the Red and Black color scheme on the Mohawk. Maybe Millers Falls got something right!!


----------



## controlfreak

Thanks for all the recommendations, great group we have here! In case you are wondering, I am feeling the need to build a chair. I seem to like butchering projects outside of my skill set but I do it well.


----------



## donwilwol

> That's about the size of it. Mohawk were Millers Falls economy line early on. Eventually they got folded into the Millers Falls name and became the V-Line planes.
> 
> - HokieKen


https://oldtoolheaven.com/bench/economyplanes.htm


----------



## sansoo22

> I seem to like butchering projects outside of my skill set but I do it well.
> 
> - controlfreak


That made me laugh!!! Mainly because its how I do my woodworking projects. I swear its because I tackle the beginning of a project the same way I would writing a new application. And since I find writing code very easy I just assume implementing my woodworking plan will also be easy. And every time I end up way over my head…seriously every time.


----------



## RWE

> I seem to like butchering projects outside of my skill set but I do it well.
> 
> - controlfreak
> 
> That made me laugh!!! Mainly because its how I do my woodworking projects. I swear its because I tackle the beginning of a project the same way I would writing a new application. And since I find writing code very easy I just assume implementing my woodworking plan will also be easy. And every time I end up way over my head…seriously every time.
> 
> - sansoo22


A couple of decades back, I was at a Woodworkers Guild exhibition. I was new to the Guild. One old fellow (about the same age as I am now) asked me what I liked doing in my woodworking hobby. I replied, I turn bowls, pens, make small pieces of furniture, make boxes and anything else that catches my interest. The old fellow looked at me and said "You need to pick something and concentrate on it". 20 years later I have realized he was correct. I now enjoy doing the same project multiple times. I think repetition is a key to getting better.

So pick something and repeat it a few times. Maybe you will get one of the permutations correct. LOL

I know we have some engineers on the board, but I was wondering if there is not a correlation with computer programmers/IT types and woodworking as a hobby. I program and I think you get the same sense of fascination and fun programming code as you do building projects. It is "problem solving" that is common between the two.


----------



## Lazyman

For me, programming (coding) is a creative thing and problem solving was one of the funnest parts for me. When I retired, I knew I wanted to get back into woodworking but worried that I might miss the creative outlet that coding provided and want to go back to work. Not even close. Woodworking easily fills that creative niche. While I still miss it sometimes, I almost never think about coding even as a hobby any more, though I do still think of Arduino projects now and then. I approach my woodworking projects like I did coding, where the design process is over half of the fun part. That is probably why I rarely repeat anything. Even with turning, few of my projects are repeats.


----------



## sansoo22

My boss is a metal fabricator and two other devs i work with on other teams are wood workers. I think there is probably a correlation between programmers and hobbies like woodworking. It does scratch the creative itch quite well.

Lazyman - focusing on the process end to end has made me a better woodworker. I used to get all excited for the building part without proper planning and that is usually where getting in way over my head took place. At work all of our crap like dev environments and CICD pipelines is all routine anymore. I forget that it took months and in cases years to get it to that point. At work its easy to skip the mundane and go right to the exciting parts because we put in that leg work already. In the shop I have to remember that each project is its own end to end process which has really helped my accuracy and reduced waste by a large margin.

Edit: Because I'm still newish to the hobby at least one part of every project I will have planned improperly but that's the learning part. At least I typically don't fail at the same thing the next time.


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## controlfreak

I got in the shop to finish de-rusting my Stanley 78 last night. I must say I have a new go to tool especially on small parts like the adjustment lever, my cordless Dremel & brass wheel. It did great and after that and some WD40 with green pad I had it looking like a good user.


















Gave it a test run but didn't have the lever cap tight enough and it shifted during the test run. I got it back in place and corrected the sloped rebate. I need to get some practice in setting it up for some specific rebates of a fixed depth and with to make sure I am consistent.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Looking good control freak. I got yet another new little toy today but I'll post that later.

I'm with Nathan on the creative portion. I'm not a full on developer but I'm a DBA and I have to code stuff, just not all the time. I also have minions to do some of that for me as well. Either way, IT here as well and I'm always happy to get away from the screen. I don't think I'll miss it when I retire in another 15 years. Probably less than that but still a ways to go.


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## DevinT

Wow. More programmers than I realized here.


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## DavePolaschek

I programmed for almost 40 years before retiring. I haven't done any actual coding in three years, and don't miss it at all. I did write an Apple Shortcut on my iPad a while back, and I've answered a few technical questions in exchange for a beer, but I don't miss it at all. Playing with my wood scratches the problem solving itch for me, too.


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## CaptainKlutz

Reads like programmers grow on trees? Lol


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## corelz125

Some guys frown upon using plans to build a project but I find using them keeps me in order and make less mistakes than when I don't use them. That might keep you on track for the next project Sansoo


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## DevinT

My dad asked if I would be offended if he called me a "bag lady" after he saw how meticulous I am about assembling complex woodworking projects (individually bagging each and every piece and then bagging those into a larger bag and labeling everything so that when it comes time to assemble, nothing has degraded from the point it was finished).

I of course told him no offense at all.

I don't know if that's because I am a coder or if I am a coder because I am this way. Meh-doesn't really matter.

I have entire months where I don't feel like coding and then I will rat-hole something for a year or two (or 30)


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## HokieKen

Geeze what a buncha nerds.


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## bandit571

Never been a "Programmer"....as for plans? That is why I use The Single Brain Cell Sketch Up….

You could say..it is all in me head….in a good way.

Things like that table I just made….nothing was ever committed to paper…Yet I could see every detail clear as day…


----------



## RWE

> Geeze what a buncha nerds.
> 
> - HokieKen


I bet you were a "slide rule" guy and you call others nerds. LOL

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of LJ members occupations. Perhaps LJ and such boards are skewed toward nerds (programmers and IT) because nerds know how to use computers and spend a lot of time on them?

Note: I am a programmer, but I don't fit the geek nerd mold too well. Old country boy that fell in love with programming back in the 80's during the home computer revolution.


----------



## Lazyman

Hah, My major in college was actually Forestry (BSF) but I had to take a Fortran class as part of the program and discovered that I am much better at computers than Forestry. I was too far along with the forestry degree to change my major so I just added a second major and a 5th year. I used my programming skills to pay for my last 2 years of school helping my forest entomology professor compile a complete bibliography of every paper ever published about the Southern pine bark beetle. Thank you very much Dendroctonus frontalis. All those old forestry professors thought I was a wizard of something and I encouraged that thinking every chance I got.


----------



## RichT

> Geeze what a buncha nerds.
> 
> - HokieKen


And proud of it. This is my Post Versalog that I got for Christmas on my 16th birthday (1970). I still have it.


----------



## Sylvain

self made kitchen sliding rule:
https://www.lumberjocks.com/Sylvain/blog/132753

Still have a Faber Castell sliding rule with manual and my HP35.
A few month after buying the HP35, I could have had an HP21 for half the (huge) price of the HP35.

Not much coding here (a little bit of Fortran, Basic, Pascal and spreadsheet-macro a long time ago).


----------



## MikeB_UK

Don't do quite as much coding as I used to, but still about 1/4 of my job.

Does seem like everyone here is a programmer sometimes, or an engineer, or Kenny.
Must be a way to deal with the OCD tendancies


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, y'all are rubber and I'm glue ;-) EE's and software guys call me a grease monkey (affectionate name for MEs) and I call them Masters of the Dark Arts and Liars. Both also being terms of endearment ;-)

I have a slide rule but have never used it. I still have my TI-84+ on my desk and it still has macros I wrote for it many moons ago. I have done some VB code editing but never written anything from scratch and I use Excel Macros extensively. Most of my "coding" is OOP in LabView. I'm definitely more grease monkey than dark magician. But sometimes you need a spreadsheet with inputs for application and environment that outputs a list of greases that fit the monkey!


----------



## controlfreak

Coding is something I will never do. For woodworking I am a pen and paper guy. I tried to dabble in AutoCAD and SketchUp but I ended up feeling my time is better spent on paper. Once I realized that dimensions in hand tool work were all relative it was liberating. My son on the other hand makes his living coding. He just can't tell me what he works on, I wouldn't understand it anyway.


----------



## DevinT

I keep a TI-89 in my toolbox.


----------



## Sylvain

> For woodworking I am a pen and paper guy. I tried to dabble in AutoCAD and SketchUp but I ended up feeling my time is better spent on paper. Once I realized that dimensions in hand tool work were all relative it was liberating.
> - controlfreak


The same for me.
The learning curve of CAD is too steep for an occasional use. Without regular use one will nearly start from scratch each time.

I tend to work with a minimum of plan/measures as does Bandit571. Of course it varies according to the project.


----------



## bandit571

back to planes…Thursday Runt Hunt…









About $30 all together….Plane?









Seems to be a Stanley No. 60-1/2 ($1)

Millers Falls No. 61A was about $8

That countersink bit was $0.50

Irwin Expansive bit..goes out to 3" diameter…That chisel is an 1/8" Sash Mortise..

Wasn't too bad of a morning?


----------



## MikeB_UK

And now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Good luck identifying this one, something user-made I reckon.
Someone went to far too much effort to make an infill coffin plane.
Works nicely though.


----------



## controlfreak

Nice one Mike!


----------



## donwilwol

I've done enough scripting to know I never want to do coding. Almost the same thing, just in smaller increments.


----------



## DevinT

Depends on the language, *Don*.

I've met some languages to which that is an understatement. To name one, ... *Forth*


----------



## corelz125

You structural engineers drive us nuts sometimes. Everything works great and fits perfect in theory and auotcad or what ever program they use to design it. In real life it doesn't work that way. I don't have the attention span to sit all day. I have to keep moving.


----------



## bandit571

All cleaned up and sharpened ..









iron had a big chip missing…sharpened back to get rid of that..









On the sliding section of the adjustable mouth…there is a "S" foundry mark. Most of the nickel plate was gone.

Base was a black colour….and not blue, nor Maroon…

Might come in handy, sometime…


----------



## KentInOttawa

> All cleaned up and sharpened ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bandit571


I would call that a steal of a deal on that Stanley No. 60-1/2. Over time I have picked up 3 of them, and have given two of them away to good homes. I paid considerably more than you did, though. The 60 1/2 is my goto block because it is low angle and it fits in my size 8 hands beautifully.


----------



## RichT

> I ve met some languages to which that is an understatement. To name one, ... *Forth*
> 
> - DevinT


Often referred to as write-only code, i.e. very difficult to read unless liberally commented with stack diagrams.

I met Chuck about 40 years ago when he was doing work for the U of A at the Kitt Peak National Observatory outside Tucson. He presented at a conference on FORTH which I attended. He named it FORTH because it was developed for 4th-gen computers and the OS he developed it on only allowed five character file names (it was also originally all caps, like pretty much ever other language at the time). I remember how strange it seemed starting to work in C after a decade of doing nothing but FORTRAN and assembly because of the use of lower case.

I also got to spend time with Grady Booch, whose Rational Software Corporation Apex and Rose products we used on a project I headed up in the early '90s. Want to have as little fun as possible writing software? Ada is the way to go. I used to say programming in Ada is like having sex wearing 5 condoms-yeah sure, you're doing it, but it's not exciting. Grady was probably the smartest person I ever worked with. Fortunately for me, I was able to avoid Ada for the most part because my portion of the project was creating the GUI using X Window and Motif. The only Ada I had to do was for the interface between the C++ X code and the Ada back end.


----------



## DevinT

Wow, *Rich*.

I was always kind of partial to the X Athena widgets (Xaw), but Motif was cool.

I wrote Forth for many years. I actually came to love it. But then, I also prefer Perl over Python (because it runs faster).

ASIDE: I know 28 languages. R was the latest one I learned.


----------



## DevinT

For *Rich*:



> \ determine if a word appears in a string, case&dash;insensitive
> : contains? ( addr1 len1 addr2 len2 &dash;&dash; 0 | &dash;1 )
> 2 pick 0= if 2drop 2drop true exit then
> dup 0= if 2drop 2drop false exit then
> begin
> begin
> swap dup [email protected] dup 32 = over 9 = or over 10 = or
> over 13 = or over 44 = or swap drop
> while 1+ swap 1&dash; repeat
> swap 2 pick 1&dash; over <
> while
> 2over 2over drop over compare&dash;insensitive 0= if
> 2 pick over = if 2drop 2drop true exit then
> 2 pick tuck &dash; &dash;rot + swap over [email protected] dup 32 =
> over 9 = or over 10 = or over 13 = or over 44 = or
> swap drop if 2drop 2drop true exit then
> then begin
> swap dup [email protected] dup 32 = over 9 = or over 10 = or
> over 13 = or over 44 = or swap drop
> if false else true then 2 pick 0> and
> while 1+ swap 1&dash; repeat
> swap
> repeat
> 2drop 2drop false
> ;


----------



## KentInOttawa

I did a few software patches in C for this beast during my four years in Europe. The hardware that I was writing code for has now been upgraded so my code is now just aging out in the archives.










I think that a lot of programmers like woodworking because code and wood both need to be manipulated through a process to meet an end goal or spec. The pleasure gained from making them conform against all odds is essentially the same.

Edit: Not a hand plane.


----------



## DevinT

Totally agree, *Kent*. My Mom wrote software for this beast …


----------



## DevinT

Trying to fly this conversation back to hand planes …

As a segue between the two conversations, I never learned G code for CNC, and I think what I like about Shaper Origin is that there is no coding and it makes you flatten your lumber first (if you route atop it anyway).

So I get to use hand planes a lot and just draw pictures as a release from coding. Fancy CNC without G code was appealing because woodwork should be enjoyable.

And what do I make with the Origin? Heh, hand tools


----------



## RichT

> But then, I also prefer Perl over Python (because it runs faster).
> 
> - DevinT


Ditto. I always marveled at its ability to determine context. Talk about shoot-from-the-hip programming, Perl makes it possible. I did an entire version management system at one job using Perl. It once took two programmers an entire afternoon to pull code from SourceSafe, do a dozen builds for regional customizations, and release it. I made it turnkey. For that I used Perl/Tk on the front end.

I was always a Perl evangelist (appropriate term given Larry Wall's religious fervor), but had zero followers. I guess it was too freewheeling for the rest of the group.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Another old fart programmer here: 
I learned B code for PDP-7 hardware, before switching to C on PDP-11 hardware. Attended several C classes taught by Dennis Ritchie at his IBM facility, running 360 series main frames. I forget more hardware and languages than I remember. 
To this electrical engineer, programming is not a job; it a task or tool to complete a small portion of a project. Code is everywhere. My son was coding python at 12 yrs old. I use code just like a pencil in my pocket, and I really don't care about the color of my pencil, or the name of the language. 

So that I can anger all the programmers further:
Code is nothing without hardware. My career was spent creating the hardware that makes running code possible. Sorry, can't say what I did and stay anonymous Klutz. But my family likes to joke: 
Anyone who carries a smartphone, laptop, or drives a modern car; has a little piece of my brain with them everywhere they go.
And NO, if you drop kick your phone or laptop; I won't feel it. :-(0)

Cheers!


----------



## KentInOttawa

I've been working on this 100% unplugged project for a while now.










Here I am laying out the frame pieces so that I can cut the side frame pieces to length. I used a few planes (#4, A78, 778 and a 92) to rectify all my previous blunders.










Tomorrow, I hope to lay out and cut the dovetails.


----------



## DevinT

I am still writing Perl. Last piece I wrote was this in 2020


----------



## DevinT

Great work, Kent! Looks really nice


----------



## DevinT

Re: pencil color

Some pencils are wrapped in barbed wire.

Context: Python numpy and itertools are anywhere between 60% and 300% slower than equivalent PerlXS which matters if you are trying to write code that scales. Donald Knuth would demand no-less in language selection and it is no wonder he largely chose C for his work.


----------



## RWE

> All cleaned up and sharpened ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iron had a big chip missing…sharpened back to get rid of that..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the sliding section of the adjustable mouth…there is a "S" foundry mark. Most of the nickel plate was gone.
> 
> Base was a black colour….and not blue, nor Maroon…
> 
> Might come in handy, sometime…
> 
> - bandit571


In my limited sample size, every 60 1/2 has been black. Blue must be a Record clone? Maroon must be a very late/recent model? I will double your money on it and pay you $5 for the refurb. Private message me your email and I will Paypal you $7.00. LOL. Actually don't need another one.

It is my favorite block plane for sure. The low angle is great.


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## RichT

> For *Rich*:
> 
> determine if a word appears in a string, case‐insensitive
> [...]
> 
> - DevinT


Like I said, write-only…lol

I'm probably in the same neighborhood in terms of languages. Most of them you would never have heard of. ETL, the Eaton Test Language used on their digital card testers was very C-like, ATLAS…the list goes on and on. Seemed like every project I worked on used a different language.

I once said that FORTRAN does everything I need a programming language to do (of course I grew out of that).

If you want to read a great book, check out Tracy Kidder's The Soul of a New Machine. He embedded himself in the team at Data General that was designing the Eclipse computer to compete with the DEC VAX and wrote the book about his experience.

In 1980 I was at Siemens and we were deciding what system to buy. I got to spend time on an Eclipse, a Harris running their Vulcan operating system (totally bizarre) and the DEC. We went with the DEC.

Those were fun times. Pretty much everything had to be written from scratch.


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## RWE

I figure this is a Hokie question. I met a fellow at a yard sale in the neighborhood. He turns a bit and makes boxes and such with all modern power tools. So I invited him up to see the hand tools.

He then volunteers this: * "If you ever need a plane sandblasted, I can use an industrial grade sand blaster at work and will do it for you. We use ball bearings and sand."* So with my rigged up Coal slag poor mans sand blaster rig, I would probably take him up on that.

I assume ball bearings are too much??? Not sure what size they come in. I figure sand only. What does Hokie think or anyone in the know.


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## CaptainKlutz

Ball bearings used for blasting is called shot blasting or peening. It is primarily used to surface harden machined steel. Common use is on axles, or spindles to reduce wear. Shot blasting creates dimples in material, which overlap to eventually make a smooth hard surface.

I would not shot peen a cast iron plane. The cast iron structure and larger carbon nodules is weak compared to steel, and can cause cracks if using large ball and/or too much pressure. Might be OK on a large casting, but not a thin web on hand plane.

'Sand' blasting quality depends on grit size of the silica dioxide media. If they use regular old play sand, that is a course grit, like common coal slag.

My preference for hand planes is glass bead media. The glass beads fracture on impact and produce consistent removal rate, and/or damage to surface. It is kinder/gentler blasting media for metal, without resorting to a 'soft' media like walnut or soda.

YMMV


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## RWE

> Ball bearings used for blasting is called shot blasting or peening. It is primarily used to surface harden machined steel. Common use is on axles, or spindles to reduce wear. Shot blasting creates dimples in material, which overlap to eventually make a smooth hard surface.
> 
> I would not shot peen a cast iron plane. The cast iron structure and larger carbon nodules is weak compared to steel, and can cause cracks if using large ball and/or too much pressure. Might be OK on a large casting, but not a thin web on hand plane.
> 
> Sand blasting quality depends on grit size of the silica dioxide media. If they use regular old play sand, that is a course grit, like common coal slag.
> 
> My preference for hand planes is glass bead media. The glass beads fracture on impact and produce consistent removal rate, and/or damage to surface. It is kinder/gentler blasting media for metal, without resorting to a soft media like walnut or soda.
> 
> YMMV
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


Thanks. I had researched this all about a year ago and memory fails a bit. I will check on the sand size and see what he says.

I have a Rockford R6 that could use a sandblasting. I stay torn between liking patina and going full Sansoo. I kind of evaluate each plane, and that R6 needs some attention.


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## RichT

> So that I can anger all the programmers further:
> Code is nothing without hardware. My career was spent creating the hardware that makes running code possible. *Sorry, can t say what I did and stay anonymous Klutz. *
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


I have a BSEE and MSEE, and designed many complex digital systems back in the TTL days, so you're not angering me.

I do find it amusing that you cherish your anonymity-yet you tried to DOXX me. Care to explain that one?


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## donwilwol

I started scripting with perl about 20 years ago. I haven't done any since PowerShell came out.

My day job is designing and implementing systems. That means software, and hardware working together. That typically includes a migration with some kind of acquisition or divesture, so the business background helps.

But right now I am studying for RETIREMENT!


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## HokieKen

+1 for glass bead. Play sand or coal slag is fine for removing japanning or enamel too but glass beads leave a nicer finishnon machined surfaces.


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## bandit571

I don't think shot blasting will fix this $5 item..









First went to pick it up, thought it was a Coffin Smoother..









As this is what I saw….O. Cantz Tool Co.









It even has a custom grip. Iron is a Sandusky Warranted Cast Iron…with chipbreaker…









Sole isn't too bad…iron has since been sharpened up, chipbreaker matched up….not sure what to do about that flaky nose…..sole will need flattened….next time it goes to the shop…


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## Sylvain

40 years ago, digital computers were either too slow or too expensive for real time applications.
So analog computers were used in combination with real-time digital computer for things like flight simulation. It is about plane ;-)

I once had to deal with the following combination 
- Analog computer 
- HP1000 A700 under RTE with math coprocessor "mini computer" 
- special hybrid graphic processor mixing digital/analog techniques for generating the visual.
The analog computer was using hundreds of 741 operational amplifiers.

analog computing: http://www.analogmuseum.org/english/introduction/


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## EricFai

Hitting flea markets today. A Miller Falls #11 and a #14C, both appear to have Rosewood handles.


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## HokieKen

Lucky dog! I know a guy who'd be interested in the #11 if you wanted to sell it ;-)


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## EricFai

Kenny, unfortunately I'm going to hang on to it. Got both of them below the low end of pricing according to Miller Fall page I found. There are a few small nicks in the blades but I think I can take care of that.

The expansion bits, there are 2 Craftsman, 1 which is older, no oval around the stamping. The other one I not sure yet, it dies have a stamp "made in USA"


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## BlasterStumps

Eric since that #11 has been dropped and broken like that, you might want to check the rest of the base casting to be sure there are no more cracks. Like at the mouth corners.


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## EricFai

I realized that later, once I got back to the daughter's house. I also see that there has been a hole drilled in the end for hanging.

Once I get home I work on the restoration and see what else I find. The 14C seems to be solid, I did find an engraving USN on the side. Did not see the letter "G" for a marking.


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## HokieKen

Ahhh, I didn't see the break on the 11 before. The only reason I was interested is because mine has been broken and brazed on the cheeks. So put it to work  I've personally never used mine. I have little use for a plane that size, just needed it to complete the lineup


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## EricFai

Kenny, so your saying you need a #11 to add to your collection. I'll keep my eyes open at the flea markets I hit over the summer. Not sure but I might try another one tomorrow.


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## bandit571

Kenny knows where there is another No.11…..except, I do use mine….


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## EricFai

I'll tune this one up and probably use it to.


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## Bearcontrare

Founs this cute and interesting plane at the flea-tique mall today. It has no chip breaker. The blade adjustment wheel and cap screw knob are brass. Thete are no markings on this plane anywhere.
Does anyone have any idea who made it or it's age? I experimented with this plane a bit after sharpening the iron. It seems to like the blade inserted with the bevel down better, but more trials are in order beore any definite conclusions can be made.


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## Bearcontrare

Here is the blade assembly and the blade adjstment device. You just put the top slot of the blade onto the bass wheel atop the screw.


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## BlasterStumps

question Barry, Is there nothing on the top of the cutter just above that slot? I would clean that spot good.


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## bandit571

Has the look and smell of a Block plane made by Sargent…..made to compete against the Stanley No. 118…


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## controlfreak

Bought 5 planes for $5 a piece, don't know why but the price was right. All look like violin planes so I guess I will put that on the build list…Not! As Clint Eastwood said "A man's gotta know his limitations"


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## EricFai

CF, how about a photo. You might even sell them if you not going to use them. No sense of them just sitting there collecting dust for no reason.


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## Bearcontrare

Blaster,

No, Sir. I've cleaned up the blade and I can't find anything on it. Bandit says looks like Sargent. Sargent made planes for several other companies to sell under their own name, like "Craftsman", so this could have been one of those rebrands 
I just found two smaller planes with very similar features listed as Sargent on the bay.
Hafta say, this plane is light weight, fits in my hand very well, and with the blade installed bevel down, it works very well. Fun to use as well as interesting looking. Eight total pieces of metal and a wooden knob. Glad I ran across this piece today. I'm enjoying it a lot!!!


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## donwilwol

@ Bearcontrare A Sargent #2204

You guys may have some interest in this. You will see a #2204 as well

A bit of my Sargent block plane collection


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## theoldfart

Good video Don but you need the I am not a collector T shirt.


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## donwilwol

> Good video Don but you need the I am not a collector T shirt.
> 
> - theoldfart


That would probably be a hard sell!


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## corelz125

Good video Don. I keep my 507 tucked away for now.


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## bandit571

I think I know where that Firestone Supreme block plane came from….


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## DLK

> A couple of decades back, I was at a Woodworkers Guild exhibition. I was new to the Guild. One old fellow (about the same age as I am now) asked me what I liked doing in my woodworking hobby. I replied, I turn bowls, pens, make small pieces of furniture, make boxes and anything else that catches my interest. The old fellow looked at me and said "You need to pick something and concentrate on it". 20 years later I have realized he was correct. I now enjoy doing the same project multiple times. I think repetition is a key to getting better.
> 
> So pick something and repeat it a few times. Maybe you will get one of the permutations correct. LOL
> 
> I know we have some engineers on the board, but I was wondering if there is not a correlation with computer programmers/IT types and woodworking as a hobby. I program and I think you get the same sense of fascination and fun programming code as you do building projects. It is "problem solving" that is common between the two.
> 
> - RWE


I suppose, because I have a joint Mathematics and Computer Science Ph.D and have written two books on algorithms (combinatorial and graph theory), I am obligated to reply on this topic. The only thing that makes computer programming interesting is the problem you are trying to solve, otherwise programming is tedious and boring. As long as I am learning figuring out clever techniques both for woodworking and programming or anything for that matter I remain interested in the project. The I get quite board. Hence I tend to master one thing after another and then move on .


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## RWE

> A couple of decades back, I was at a Woodworkers Guild exhibition. I was new to the Guild. One old fellow (about the same age as I am now) asked me what I liked doing in my woodworking hobby. I replied, I turn bowls, pens, make small pieces of furniture, make boxes and anything else that catches my interest. The old fellow looked at me and said "You need to pick something and concentrate on it". 20 years later I have realized he was correct. I now enjoy doing the same project multiple times. I think repetition is a key to getting better.
> 
> So pick something and repeat it a few times. Maybe you will get one of the permutations correct. LOL
> 
> I know we have some engineers on the board, but I was wondering if there is not a correlation with computer programmers/IT types and woodworking as a hobby. I program and I think you get the same sense of fascination and fun programming code as you do building projects. It is "problem solving" that is common between the two.
> 
> - RWE
> 
> I suppose, because I have a joint Mathematics and Computer Science Ph.D and have written two books on algorithms (combinatorial and graph theory), I am obligated to reply on this topic. The only thing that makes computer programming interesting is the problem you are trying to solve, otherwise programming is tedious and boring. As long as I am learning figuring out clever techniques both for woodworking and programming or anything for that matter I remain interested in the project. The I get quite board. Hence I tend to master one thing after another and then move on .
> 
> - Combo Prof


I don't want to get this topic restarted. It was interesting to see the responses. I would like to clarify some things.

I program for my own software program. For that reason, I was always problem solving and learning, being challenged and growing. I also sold, managed, supported the product. I would not want to "program" for a living, but no matter how you shake it down, writing code to solve a problem has parallels to building a project in the woodshop. Code is mental, woodworking has the mental aspect as well but you can see the end product.

As far as the repetition goes, you still have to match grain, wood features and execute the plan when you do the same project multiple times. I mill my wood from rough lumber. Some of the "creativity" in my work is in the milling when you are looking and discovering the wood and how to feature it.

There are a lot of layers in this hobby. Keeping tools sharp, cutting on a straight line, jointing with a plane at 90 degrees etc. So dreaming up a project and executing it is I am sure a creative pursuit. However there is a lot of creativity in doing the same project multiple times. The creativity is in the wood selection and the incremental steps to do the work. I work from plans most of the time. I see a plan and I start thinking about wood selection and milling. That is the creativity that gets me through the day.

If you are building something, that is the main thing. Whether it is your design or a plan, seems to be a dividing line in folks work, but in either case there is plenty of creativity in the execution, unless you are building boxes out of plywood.


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## KelleyCrafts

Here's another one I grabbed from the UK last week. The 50 I posted last week I think had never been used but this one has very little use. All the blades had bad not so flat bevels from whomever attempted to sharpen them. Came with all three blades. I spent some time last night making some ultra short rods for it. It'll just spend its life cutting my drawer/box bottoms.


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## OleGrump

Don,

Thank you for sharing the GREAT video!!! I had to wait until I could watch it on a real computer with a larger screen than my cell phone. (And a chance to have some popcorn while enjoying it….;-D

While I agree this plane is a Sargent, of some type, I'm not quite sold on it being a 2204. My reasons are 1. This plane is 7 3/4" long, a bit too long for a block plane, and 2. There is the wooden front knob, which sure looks factory installed.

Whatever it is, it sure is interesting!!! Thank you again, for sharing that wonderful video. It sur was a lot of fun viewing your supply of block planes…. we dare not say "collection", ....right????


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## theoldfart

^only of you have the Tshirt!


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## donwilwol

> Don,
> 
> Thank you for sharing the GREAT video!!! I had to wait until I could watch it on a real computer with a larger screen than my cell phone. (And a chance to have some popcorn while enjoying it….;-D
> 
> While I agree this plane is a Sargent, of some type, I m not quite sold on it being a 2204. My reasons are 1. This plane is 7 3/4" long, a bit too long for a block plane, and 2. There is the wooden front knob, which sure looks factory installed.
> 
> Whatever it is, it sure is interesting!!! Thank you again, for sharing that wonderful video. It sur was a lot of fun viewing your supply of block planes…. we dare not say "collection", ....right????
> 
> - OleGrump


You might be right about the 2204. I have seen several different versions and I don't think I've yet to see it in a catalog. I've been doing some digging on the block planes so I'll add the 2204 to the list. I have seen it in kids toy box sets.

I'm curious about the 107. I posted this on my Facebook group yesterday. The gull wing 106 and 206 (t-2) is fairly common even in catalogs and finding an example is pretty easy. However the 107 and 207 is very rare and the 1887 catalog shows the t-1 and the 1888 catalog shows the wheel cap. I can't find the 107 gull wing in any catalog and there are very few examples (although there are a few)


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## KentInOttawa

kunist ^^^ spam reported.


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## bandit571

Why is it….if I use this plane as a short Jointer..









I have trouble getting it to balance on that edge….always seems to want to tilt….yet, when a "real" Jointer plane shows up..









It has no trouble staying balanced? Leaves a nice square joint..









While I have to keep checking the #62's path with a square….I don't need to with the No.6c?










And leaves a nice, tight joint. The #62 got fired, yesterday….leave it to clean up glue joints, from now on…









Will see how it does with these….


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## donwilwol

I've listed a Sargent block plane reference

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2022/04/27/sargent-block-planes/


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## RWE

*Stump the band time!!!*

I was out at an Antique Mall this afternoon and ran across this unusual plane. It looks to be a 50's 60's type animal.

The only mark on it is "Made in USA" behind the front knob. It actually has brass nuts on the front knob and rear tote bolts. I think I have seen the *spread out v-shaped lateral adjuster wings before* but I can't conjure up a name.

I don't plan to get it, but I don't like mysteries. $24.00 was the price.

Bandit or anyone else with an idea what this animal is? Nothing on the iron.


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## bandit571

Before Stanley crimped that end in 1962….was called the "Whale Tail" adjuster…They are not too hateful…and you can crimp the tail closed, IF you want to. They are a step above the Tu-Tones, and Handyman brands….


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## RWE

> Before Stanley crimped that end in 1962….was called the "Whale Tail" adjuster…They are not too hateful…and you can crimp the tail closed, IF you want to. They are a step above the Tu-Tones, and Handyman brands….
> 
> - bandit571


I thought the frog looked like a Stanley. What was the line called? Is it rare enough that I should go ahead and get it? It has a broken tote, but should clean up.


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## bandit571

Type 21…1956-1962….not rare, but not dogs, either…just not "collectable"....but they can be good users. The handles were painted gloss black…..they looked better once the paint has been stripped off.


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## EricFai

I would probably add that to my collection that I'm starting to build up it seems to be priced decent, but sill haggle the price.

I found 2 Miller's Falls last week, 1 for 30 and another for 40, irons needed to be sharpened. I used one tonight after sharpening, and it worked well.


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## corelz125

Nothing special about them it will probably need some work to get it tuned up good.


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## RWE

> Type 21…1956-1962….not rare, but not dogs, either…just not "collectable"....but they can be good users. The handles were painted gloss black…..they looked better once the paint has been stripped off.
> 
> - bandit571


Every time I post, I wind up making an idiot of myself. Comes natural I guess. I have never looked at Types beyond 16 or so. So I had no idea of what a Type 21 would look like. What baffles me is why no trademarks.

It looked to me that it could be made into a good or fair user but I don't need another 4. Either the spirit will move me or it won't, to get it. I could see having some fun with the paint. It could go with the collection of Deplorables and like the Dunlap, not really be all that deplorable. The same vendor had a Dunlap smoother (Sargent made) that was in good shape, same price ($24) and such, but I have a Dunlap already.


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## bandit571

Random plane picture…









Cleaning up them legs, this evening..









Just making shavings…..









No need for any sanding….


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## EricFai

I am getting into using the planes, I do like the fact that you don't have to sand. Shavings I can deal with, dust not so much.


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## RWE

> I am getting into using the planes, I do like the fact that you don t have to sand. Shavings I can deal with, dust not so much.
> 
> - Eric


Probably a good topic for the veteran woodworkers here. I have watched enough Paul Sellers to see that for most of his projects he will plane the surface and then come back for a very light hand sanding. He does that to allow the finish to be able to penetrate more evenly I believe. However the dust from hand sanding is not the same thing as using power equipment.

I bounce around between hand sanding and power sanding but I did just install an Air Filtration System. I bought the Wen device. My shop is so small that going cheap was going to be adequate. I have noticed less fine dust now. I was not concerned about my lungs as much as I was all my beloved tools. I am building momentum toward making a hanging tool cabinet with doors now.


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## EricFai

RWE, I still in the process of learning some techniques using the hand tools. And I am liking them more. I still need a DC and air filter in my small shop, 432 square feet.


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## RWE

> RWE, I still in the process of learning some techniques using the hand tools. And I am liking them more. I still need a DC and air filter in my small shop, 432 square feet.
> 
> - Eric


I get by with a Shop Vac but I added a small cyclone on the top of a 5 gallon bucket (available at Home Depot). I found that to be too small so I took an old Shop Vac and removed the motor and made it into a sort of Cyclone first stage. Gravity and deflection makes it pretty effective and I don't have to constantly dump it.

If you can get by without the power, just go hand tools. It is certainly quieter and more satisfying. However you may overrun your shop at some point with your "collection". This is a problem I have.

I was not trying to be preachy about the sanding. If you have a hand planed surface on some wood, it may not absorb your finish very well. Just wanted to throw that out in case you were not aware. Probably depends on the wood you are using as well.

If you go hand tools, watch some Sellers. Do his "the four joints" on YouTube. Use his free web site. Good content. The knife wall is "all that".


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## EricFai

RWE, I'll have to look into Paul's videos. As for DC I still want to have a hard line for the tools in the shop. I have it designed and just need to pull the trigger.


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## RWE

> RWE, I ll have to look into Paul s videos. As for DC I still want to have a hard line for the tools in the shop. I have it designed and just need to pull the trigger.
> 
> - Eric


I just looked at your projects section. Obviously you are not a rookie. I was all power tools for years and only got interested in hand tools when I needed to preprocess bandsawn lumber for the power jointer. Probably 40 planes later, 30 or 40 handsaws, same amount of chisels, 4 or 5 braces etc. etc. I am back from collecting and refurbing old tools and doing some woodworking again.

Finishing up a run of about 40 finger jointed pencil boxes all done with power. Lots of dust. Some shooting board work.

But I keep chasing the elusive "properly done" hand cut dovetail.


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## EricFai

In the process of collecting old tools myself, flea markets mainly.

If you have tome check out blog on my shop build.


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## bandit571

Paul Sellers…Masterclasses…get the free series….


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## donwilwol

> *Stump the band time!!!*
> 
> I was out at an Antique Mall this afternoon and ran across this unusual plane. It looks to be a 50 s 60 s type animal.
> 
> The only mark on it is "Made in USA" behind the front knob. It actually has brass nuts on the front knob and rear tote bolts. I think I have seen the *spread out v-shaped lateral adjuster wings before* but I can t conjure up a name.
> 
> I don t plan to get it, but I don t like mysteries. $24.00 was the price.
> 
> Bandit or anyone else with an idea what this animal is? Nothing on the iron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE


I think it's a Stanley defiance with a Millers Falls Mohawk cap.

Defiance


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## Johnny7

> I think it s a Stanley defiance with a Millers Falls Mohawk cap.
> 
> Defiance
> 
> - Don W


Most likely this is correct.

At the very least, one can plainly see, from the frog alone, that RWE's plane is pre-1933 (new frog design introduced), so no way it's a type 21.


----------



## RWE

> I think it s a Stanley defiance with a Millers Falls Mohawk cap.
> 
> Defiance
> 
> - Don W
> 
> Most likely this is correct.
> 
> At the very least, one can plainly see, from the frog alone, that RWE s plane is pre-1933 (new frog design introduced), so no way it s a type 21.
> 
> - Johnny7





> *Stump the band time!!!*
> 
> I was out at an Antique Mall this afternoon and ran across this unusual plane. It looks to be a 50 s 60 s type animal.
> 
> The only mark on it is "Made in USA" behind the front knob. It actually has brass nuts on the front knob and rear tote bolts. I think I have seen the *spread out v-shaped lateral adjuster wings before* but I can t conjure up a name.
> 
> I don t plan to get it, but I don t like mysteries. $24.00 was the price.
> 
> Bandit or anyone else with an idea what this animal is? Nothing on the iron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE
> 
> I think it s a Stanley defiance with a Millers Falls Mohawk cap.
> 
> Defiance
> 
> - Don W


Does this account for the fact that it has no trademarks at all, other than the Made in USA on the body behind the front knob. May be a frankenplane.

Would a Defiance have a mark on the iron? I have a Victor and it has a mark.

I think I will go buy that sucker so I can run a road grader over it. I hate mysteries.


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## Johnny7

> Does this account for the fact that it has no trademarks at all, other than the Made in USA on the body behind the front knob. May be a frankenplane.
> 
> Would a Defiance have a mark on the iron? I have a Victor and it has a mark.
> 
> I think I will go buy that sucker so I can run a road grader over it. I hate mysteries.
> 
> - RWE


It's not necessarily true that everything which looks like a Stanley "Defiance" plane is a Stanley "Defiance" plane.
The castings for these second-line planes were farmed-out by Stanley to other foundries, as were most all of their castings.
Given that the blanks were devoid of any maker's marks, they could be, and were, used by other plane wholesalers.

I took a quick look at my database and see that over the decades I've sold about 40 planes which fit this description. The photos show that most of the Stanley offerings had the markings on the side of the rear handle.
Some had "Made in USA" on the iron (as well as the casting); others had blank blades.


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## bandit571

All I had to go by….was that "Whale Tail" lateral lever…..and those ended in 1962…..


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## KelleyCrafts

Stanley 1 in the box for anyone who wants it in the can I have it auction this weekend.


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## RWE

> Does this account for the fact that it has no trademarks at all, other than the Made in USA on the body behind the front knob. May be a frankenplane.
> 
> Would a Defiance have a mark on the iron? I have a Victor and it has a mark.
> 
> I think I will go buy that sucker so I can run a road grader over it. I hate mysteries.
> 
> - RWE
> 
> It s not necessarily true that everything which looks like a Stanley "Defiance" plane is a Stanley "Defiance" plane.
> The castings for these second-line planes were farmed-out by Stanley to other foundries, as were most all of their castings.
> Given that the blanks were devoid of any maker s marks, they could be, and were, used by other plane wholesalers.
> 
> I took a quick look at my database and see that over the decades I ve sold about 40 planes which fit this description. The photos show that most of the Stanley offerings had the markings on the side of the rear handle.
> Some had "Made in USA" on the iron (as well as the casting); others had blank blades.
> 
> - Johnny7


I will buy into that.

The wood looked like a second tier plane, but the 60's 70's main tier planes have similar wood. I did study the tote but it may have had a stamp in it that I did not pick up on inspection. Having brass nuts is usually an indicator of an earlier period and a better line of planes.

In any case, I was excited to see the "Whale Tail" and it got me curious as to what the heck it was.

I am going on vacation next week and hope to hit some Flea Malls and see what I can come up with. I think I like rust hunting a bit more than woodworking at this point. Nah! I didn't say that. No way.

Thanks to all for the "stump the band" comments.


----------



## corelz125

whats the asking price on that #1 a few mortgage payments?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

They have the starting bid price set to $4k. So you about nailed it Corelz


----------



## bandit571

Random plane photos from this evening..









No.6c hard at work..









Date code on the Iron…243….2nd Quarter of 1943….

Instead of looking through old catalogs…I prefer to actually USE these planes….much more fun, and a Cardio to boot..









Was a bit busy…


----------



## EricFai

Cardio, is right. Bit that is a good thing.


----------



## rad457

Got my 408 C, started to clean it up, fixed a small crack on the knob then decided to sand down the tote and surprise it was plastic? made new knob and tote from some mystery pallet wood, made the knob lower and the tote a little thicker to fit my hand better. Even threw a little Black Tremclad on the body jus to make it look pretty


----------



## EricFai

Well done Andre, it looks good.


----------



## donwilwol

Glad you got the plastic totes of that VBM. Who would do such a thing!


----------



## donwilwol

first rust hunt in a while for me. Is there a reset on beginners luck?


----------



## RWE

Depending on what you paid Don W. I think you and Bandit should get in a ring and duke it out for top honors in rust hunting.


----------



## HokieKen

That a #8 down there at the end of the bench planes Don? I'd say that looks like a pretty nice haul!


----------



## Lazyman

Speaking of rust. I picked up this Union block plane for $3 at a yard sale. I have never had a Union but for $3 I figured that it could not be too bad.


----------



## donwilwol

Kenny, that is a #8

Those union knuckle planes are probably the heaviest of the knuckle blocks.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

That block plane is really interesting Don. I might have to look out for one just to play with. I definitely don't need another block plane but I am interested in different designs.


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny, that is a #8
> …
> 
> - Don W


If it's a T2 and it's for sale, let me know!


----------



## corelz125

Mos you have one of these?


----------



## corelz125

Nice day you had Don. The for sale section on the site looks like it will be restocked soon.


----------



## DevinT

corelz, dem ain't cheap (the patent scissor fence plow); got one you trying to get rid of? (then ignore what I said, they are horrible, extremely common, and I'd be happy to take it off your hands for $30)


----------



## donwilwol

> Nice day you had Don. The for sale section on the site looks like it will be restocked soon.
> 
> - corelz125


Yea, I keep saying I'm not going to do that anymore and these things keep jumping in my backpack. I carried that group in a back pack for hours. It has to be some kind of mental incapacity.

When I walked up on the Millers falls I


----------



## corelz125

No seen it on ebay. First time I have seen one on there but then again never looked for one. I think it was over $3k. Don that's some workout you had carrying all of that around on your back.


----------



## bandit571

and…









and..









And..









And…(Stop drooling Kenny)









One more?









Hmmm….


----------



## EricFai

Nice collection Bandit, at anytime you are willing to part with some let me know.


----------



## bandit571

That is just one plane….Millers Falls No. 8, Type 2


----------



## EricFai

I have seen your photos of others. Just saying.


----------



## HokieKen

Did anyone get Leach's list yet? Just want to make sure I'm not missing out


----------



## TedT2

> Did anyone get Leach s list yet? Just want to make sure I m not missing out
> 
> - HokieKen


I have not gotten it either.


----------



## Notw

> Did anyone get Leach s list yet? Just want to make sure I m not missing out
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> I have not gotten it either.
> 
> - TedT2


No temptress here either Ken


----------



## KelleyCrafts

The April list email said the May list would be "late by a day or two".


----------



## Notw

Never mind it just showed up


----------



## KelleyCrafts

And as funny as it is, I just received the May tool list.


----------



## HokieKen

Me too


----------



## Lazyman

Have you ordered your MF level, Kenny. It's already gift wrapped for Christmas. It is even painted the right color.


----------



## HokieKen

Nope ;-) At the right price I may have been tempted but only as a novelty. And that ain't the right price…


----------



## Mosquito

I know we've got many "Of Your Dreams" threads, but does anyone remember anything around tool chests other than Smitty's blog series on the Stanley tool chests/cabinets?


----------



## Mosquito

Found it, Tool Storage of Your Dreams

Been working pretty heavy on my tool chest, figured I might as well start sharing it here too, rather than just instagram/wherever that posts to


----------



## Sylvain

There are numerous exemples of tool trays, tool boxes, tool chests, but I have found only a short thread (98 comments) about tool boxes.

Not always clear when it is a box or a chest.

Combining a tool box with a tool cabinet:
https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/297938
In the background there is a toolbox suspended to the wall wit a french cleat.


----------



## RWE

Thanks Mos. I did not know about that thread either and I am mulling over a hanging tool cabinet build. I have had the FWW Mike Pekovich (sp) plan for some years, but would like to do a study before I commit to a plan.


----------



## Mosquito

The thread I posted was titled what I would have created (Tool Storage of Your Dreams), but it is pretty short and has been dormant for 4 years now… worth reviving?

And Sylvain, those types of tool boxes are pretty cool, and I've wanted to build one before. Not sure what I'd do with it, though, so that's probably why I haven't yet lol


----------



## Lazyman

I start a new one called: "Show Us Your Chest"


----------



## Mosquito

LOL there you go Nathan

I guess RG Tools posted another similar thread as well
 though similarly dormant


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Looks like we abandoned both of them 4-5 years ago but I still had them on my watch list apparently.


----------



## DevinT

LoL at show us your chest.

Speaking of which, a woman was walking around topless in our town a week or two ago. She looked "out of it" so we called for a welfare checkup. Turns out she was high and wandered away from the homeless encampment at the end of the block


----------



## bandit571

Small tool chest…for all the garage sale finds..


----------



## controlfreak

I have two needs at this point 1) a tool cabinet for the shop. I will plan on possibly leaving the doors open but still want to be able close them. I want it to look cool and show work but I am not to the inlay fancy stuff yet. Mike Pekovich has a nice one but it is a little too power tool built for me. Shannon Rogers has one that looks interesting too. 2) A portable tool box for when I need to travel to the work.

Right now I keep sticking things in random places and spend way too much time looking for them.


----------



## DevinT

When I build my wall cabinet to hold my hand tools, it will absolutely have doors and they will definitely see closed-time for when I pull out the grinding tools and make the whole shop dusty with soot


----------



## HokieKen

Every time I start to think through a hand tool cabinet, I come back to the Studley Chest. Building something similar would be a dream project to design and build and I hope I'll tackle it some day. The problem is that something that precise leaves no room for expansion. So I need to feel like my tool collection is complete before I start. And does that ever happen???


----------



## bandit571

and..









When them doors are closed…


----------



## controlfreak

> Every time I start to think through a hand tool cabinet, I come back to the Studley Chest. Building something similar would be a dream project to design and build and I hope I ll tackle it some day. The problem is that something that precise leaves no room for expansion. So I need to feel like my tool collection is complete before I start. And does that ever happen???
> 
> - HokieKen


You???oh hell no!


----------



## EricFai

Come on Kenny, get building. You can always build another one even better if the need arises.


----------



## corelz125

Kenny go go for the MF #85 from the May list?


----------



## HokieKen

Already got one Corelz.


----------



## corelz125

MF didnt put the little horn on the front like Sargent did. How about that MF boring machine got one of them?


----------



## HokieKen

Nope. And probably never will ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

MF wasn't horny like Sargent.


----------



## controlfreak

$25 on the broken plane stop, somebody got a gem there.


----------



## RWE

Ran across another plane that I had never seen before. A Hinge Butt Mortiser??

One just like it on Ebay

I think he had around $100 on it. How rare are they in your opinion. Based on the price on Ebay, it might be a good item to try to flip.

I can see the utility of it for cutting hinge mortises on doors, but a router plane works for me for smaller hinges and I don't do large ones.

It is a "Rumbold" brand.


























I also saw two more gull wing Defiance planes while looking around. Now at least I know what they are.


----------



## donwilwol

> MF wasn't horny like Sargent.
> 
> - HokieKen


That was because their plane division had not hit puberty yet.


----------



## donwilwol

> I also saw two more gull wing Defiance planes while looking around. Now at least I know what they are.
> 
> - RWE


what is a gull wing Defiance?


----------



## Johnny7

> I also saw two more gull wing Defiance planes while looking around. Now at least I know what they are.
> 
> - RWE
> 
> what is a gull wing Defiance?
> 
> - Don W


I suspect he's referring to the splayed tip of the adjustment lever


----------



## adot45

I have a Sargent 106 that has the "Gull Wing" lever cap.


----------



## Bearcontrare

Hey Mos,
I'll be installing some brackets on the wall and mounting this drop side box like a cabinet.

I was looking for that toolbox thread myself four or five weeks ago. I remebered that there was a shortlived thread a few years ago, that abruptly and sadly died.
I had the screwy idea that I wanted a wooden drop front "suitcase" style tool box (Don't know exactly why….) Had plans to make one, but then lumber prices skyrocketed.
Found one in need of just a little love at a flea market for WAY less than I could buy mayerial to make one.
After trying a few arrangements, it looks like this box may house my 55 and my go-to 45 among some other tools.


----------



## Bearcontrare

Somehow, the last sentence moved up to the top of my last post. Blasted elwctronics!!!


----------



## RWE

I meant whale tail. Several posts back I had seen a plane with a strange winged lateral adjuster. Bandit called it a whale tail type 21. Johnny7 said it was a Defiance. Never had seen one then two more popped up on this trip.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Whenever I hear whale tail this is what I think of. Had to look through a lot of whale tails on google to find one woodworking related.


----------



## RWE

At NCAA women's beach volleyball tournament today. Spectacular whale tails on display.


----------



## bandit571

Looks more like a Muffin Top….


----------



## KelleyCrafts

2 for 1 bandit.


----------



## HokieKen

I asked you not to post pics of me in the shop Dave.


----------



## Notw

> Whenever I hear whale tail this is what I think of. Had to look through a lot of whale tails on google to find one woodworking related.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


Poor thing


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Can't help myself Kenny. The pics of you hanging in my office just aren't enough, I have to share.


----------



## corelz125

> MF wasn't horny like Sargent.
> 
> - HokieKen


Or Sargent wanted to be a little better than Stanley and made a more comfortable plane to use. Put a little more thought into theirs just didn't copy and paste.


----------



## donwilwol

> I have a Sargent 106 that has the "Gull Wing" lever cap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - adot45


And an early gull wing as well!! Nice!


----------



## Mosquito

> Hey Mos,
> 
> I was looking for that toolbox thread myself four or five weeks ago. I remebered that there was a shortlived thread a few years ago, that abruptly and sadly died.
> I had the screwy idea that I wanted a wooden drop front "suitcase" style tool box (Don t know exactly why….) Had plans to make one, but then lumber prices skyrocketed.
> Found one in need of just a little love at a flea market for WAY less than I could buy mayerial to make one.
> After trying a few arrangements, it looks like this box may house my 55 and my go-to 45 among some other tools.
> I ll be installing some brackets on the wall and mounting this drop side box like a cabinet.
> 
> - Bearcontrare


haha, sometimes procrastination DOES pay off


----------



## adot45

> I have a Sargent 106 that has the "Gull Wing" lever cap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - adot45
> 
> And an early gull wing as well!! Nice!
> 
> - Don W


Thanks Don, I came close to not showing it due to not being cleaned up yet.


----------



## donwilwol

> I have a Sargent 106 that has the "Gull Wing" lever cap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - adot45
> 
> And an early gull wing as well!! Nice!
> 
> - Don W
> 
> Thanks Don, I came close to not showing it due to not being cleaned up yet.
> 
> - adot45


Type 1 base and blade with a type 2 cap! I have a 206 that's like that.


----------



## adot45

Sweet ID, thanks


----------



## EricFai

Have to agree with Bandit, muffin top.


----------



## RWE

Folks, not sure about the muffin top but this is the "whale tail" of which I spoke.










According to Johnny7, a Stanley Defiance model or derived from a Stanley Defiance casting.


----------



## RWE

I thought this was an interesting transitional. Some sellers have no idea. It was marked down to $65 from $85. The body was busted to hell and back. Might have been worth $10 or $20.

I did like the iron adjusting mechanism and would have liked to have tried to refurb it. I have never seen a transitional with an adjuster like that.

I did not get a chance to figure out what brand it might have been. Anyone have one or something similar?


----------



## RWE

Here is an extremely rare "wooden" Millers Falls plane. I figure Kenny is foaming at the mouth to get it.


----------



## bandit571

Used to be a Jointer, someone shortened down to a smoother….


----------



## bandit571

> Here is an extremely rare "wooden" Millers Falls plane. I figure Kenny is foaming at the mouth to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE


Millers Falls No. 75A?


----------



## RWE

> Used to be a Jointer, someone shortened down to a smoother….
> 
> - bandit571


Who made the frog/iron platform? Kind of interesting.


----------



## RWE

> Used to be a Jointer, someone shortened down to a smoother….
> 
> - bandit571


Who made the frog/iron platform? Kind of interesting.


----------



## corelz125

That chopped up transitional is a Gage


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Used to be a Jointer, someone shortened down to a smoother….
> 
> - bandit571





> Who made the frog/iron platform? Kind of interesting.
> 
> - RWE


It is reminiscent of an ECE Emerich mechanism, too.


----------



## RWE

> That chopped up transitional is a Gage
> 
> - corelz125


All the Gage planes I have seen have two adjuster nuts captured in a slot on the top corners of the iron. This fellow had something more like a block plane. I did not get a chance to inspect it closely but I figure it had slots in the iron like a block.

I thought of Gage also, but this seems to be a major variation, an encapsulated metal frog/adjuster mechanism that protrudes through the body as shown in the second picture.

I think this does seem more like the ECE Emerich that Kent mentioned.


----------



## DavePolaschek

RWE, that sure looks like a Gage from here. My Gage transitionals all have that metal frog / adjuster that comes out the bottom of the plank. The slots are in a rectangular metal bit that's bolted to the front of the blade. Also, the mounting for the tote looks just like the Gages I have.


----------



## corelz125

This one looks pretty similar. Its an original Gage before Stanley got their hands on them.
https://www.goantiques.com/gage-tool-co-1849958


----------



## RWE

> This one looks pretty similar. Its an original Gage before Stanley got their hands on them.
> https://www.goantiques.com/gage-tool-co-1849958
> 
> - corelz125


Thanks. It matches the one in the link, at least the mechanism does.


----------



## corelz125

The back tote looks exactly the same also


----------



## RWE

> The back tote looks exactly the same also
> 
> - corelz125


There is a pristine one on Ebay right now for around $100 buy it now. It is pretty.

Do the early ones work well? Might have to give it some thought.


----------



## donwilwol

I've had a few gages come through. https://www.timetestedtools.net/?s=gage


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Bandit, type 20 by Stanley runs from 1962-1967.

All of the features of the previous, except:

All castings are now painted blue, instead of the black japanning used for over 100 years.

Type 21s are cordovan.


----------



## donwilwol

posted to my channel


----------



## bandit571

The "Whale Tail" lateral levers died about 1962….when Stanley crimped them down. Cordovans were 1967-1969.

Didn't the Blue Stanleys come before the Maroons….then back to black….

And..what "Type" number would the Stanley "Tu-Tone" plane fall into?

Mid 50s…there was a Defiance brand and a Victor Brand of handplanes…..along with the Handyman brand…..Have had all three brands' No. 4 sized planes at one time….basically the same plane, just different "trim"....Same way there were Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, GMC, AND Cadillacs….just the trim packages.

However, back in the 1930 era…you had a very different Defiance plane and a 4 Square product line up….that does not fit into any "Type" study…

Stanley planes made for sale by hardware store chains…..lack a lot of the features a Normal Stanley "Premium" plane would have…


----------



## Lazyman

A few grimy finds for $10 each today. No. 8, 112 and 4C. No markings on these other than the No. 8 so I am not sure who made them or anything else for that matter but for $10 each I figured I would take a chance.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Looks like a good haul Nathan.


----------



## controlfreak

I would have jumped on those too, nice!


----------



## donwilwol

for $10, you did well!


----------



## EricFai

Not bad for $10 Nathan.


----------



## HokieKen

Any 112 for $10 deserves a big fat YOU SUCK


----------



## theoldfart

^ double ditto on the112!
That pre lateral lowknob eight looks sweet as well.


----------



## corelz125

$10 each? Did you have a gun and a ski mask on when you took those Nathan?


----------



## bandit571

And they call ME a Bandit?


----------



## Lazyman

Hah. When I have a chance to get the grime off, I will post some more pictures and maybe you guys can tell me what I have. A quick rub seems to show the japanning to be in good shape. In hindsight I should have dug around on the shelves a bit more because there was a frog sitting on the same shelf with these that I did not see the rest of the parts for that were probably there somewhere. The place was a mess and it was actually a little hazardous to maneuver around.

The guy was selling everything in his shop, These were about the only woodworking tools he had, though. Most were metal working. His wife said that when he originally retired, his first project to was to make from scratch a huge steam engine just for fun. I drooled a little over a good sized mill and a metal lathe he had. They were both just from Harbor Freight but looked to be pretty substantial machines and he seemed to able to make them work well. I almost bought reamer and broach sets just because they looked cool and looked like they were almost new, though I have no idea how to use them.  I did pick up one of those Workmate bench top tilting vises for another $10 just to see if I find it it useful for carving. My wife gave his wife our number so she could text us when they uncover more stuff to sell. I got the impression that there were more tools in the house that she will be glad to clear out.


----------



## Lazyman

I had a few minutes so used some WD40 just to clean off the grim from the No. 8 and scrub a little. I did not expect to see this color of paint under there. Must have been a VT fan.










The iron is wedged and has a hexagonal hole for the cap iron screw. 









Still no marking other than the "No. 08" at the toe.


----------



## corelz125

That's an early type Ohio 08


----------



## Lazyman

Sure enough. Easy to verify on Don's website.


----------



## corelz125

Don have you heard from Brian Akers lately? His site seems to be dormant


----------



## 33706

Still no marking other than the "No. 08" at the toe.

- Lazyman
[/QUOTE]

*Don't forget that Record planes also used the 'zero' prefix in their numbering. Red paint was used in some of their early production. Just a point to consider, the 08 plane is a great find.*


----------



## corelz125

Ohio's had the hexagon tapered Irons. The early types had the maroon Jappaning then they switched to black jappaning later on.


----------



## 33706

> Ohio s had the hexagon tapered Irons. The early types had the maroon Jappaning then they switched to black jappaning later on.
> 
> - corelz125


yup, I missed that in the photo.








From a 1923 catalog


----------



## bandit571

I happen to have an 0-7 in the til…it also have the hex hole….just with a flat steel iron….and yes, it was black japanned. The hex hole was to get around Stanley's patent on the round hole….


----------



## controlfreak

I was playing around in the shop making some nice pieces reclaimed mahogany flat for boxes. I decided to try Shannon Rogers technique of frequently retuning the iron to the strop rather than the stone. It worked surprisingly well.


----------



## donwilwol

> Don have you heard from Brian Akers lately? His site seems to be dormant
> 
> - corelz125


Actually I haven't. Hopefully he's just been busy. He isn't as active on Facebook either.


----------



## bandit571

Random plane picture..









From last night..


----------



## corelz125

Brian's site was starting to get busy to and had a lot of good info.


----------



## donwilwol

> Brian s site was starting to get busy to and had a lot of good info.
> 
> - corelz125


I pinged Brian. He's good. Been working on the book


----------



## bandit571

random plane picture for today..


----------



## corelz125

> Brian s site was starting to get busy to and had a lot of good info.
> 
> - corelz125
> 
> I pinged Brian. He s good. Been working on the book
> 
> - Don W


Should be a pretty good read.


----------



## RWE

> Brian s site was starting to get busy to and had a lot of good info.
> 
> - corelz125
> 
> I pinged Brian. He s good. Been working on the book
> 
> - Don W
> 
> Should be a pretty good read.
> 
> - corelz125


I went on Google to look for Brian Aker's website to see what it was about. I could not find it. I found links to posts that he made etc. Lots of Aker's out there with websites.

Can one of you fellows post a link in to his site. I was just curious to see what he offered.


----------



## corelz125

It's Ohiotoolcompany.com RWE


----------



## Lazyman

Unfortunately almost none of the links on the site work right now.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Picture for Monday…









Millers Falls made for Sears Craftsman…M-F #14…Craftsman #...?


----------



## bandit571

Ok..so, does this count as a plane?









Had to use it, before I could install a knob on a drawer front…









Stanley No. 80


----------



## Notw

very nice looking table Bandit


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, really nice work there Bandit!


----------



## Notw

And the No. 80 is one of my favorite 'planes' to use


----------



## controlfreak

I need to rehab mine, never have used it. Its on the "list".


----------



## Lazyman

I agree. When properly setup, scraper planes are great. It is one of those tools you don't know you need to until you finally use one.

Note that because there is a bevel on the edge, they do not require nearly as much pressure to burnish a burr as a card scraper does. That frustrated me at first.


----------



## EricFai

That table is looking really good Bandit.


----------



## Mosquito

Hey, look what I found at the MWTCA meet


----------



## HokieKen

Nice Mos! That author is excellent ;-) You buy me anything?


----------



## bandit571

Lets see…red frog, missing the lever cap bolt…and the lever cap, and the chipbreaker ant the iron….Frog bolts are Phillips head…bolt for the missing front knob is also a phillips….body is "primer gray"...tote and it's bolt is MIA…LOTS of rust….Frog is also missing the depth adjuster wheel

I think I will PASS…

Picked a $1 Disston D-8, instead….

Handyman eggbeater drill….no jaws in the chuck, everything is frozen/locked up….PASS…

Combo Square….japanning is flaking off the head…adjuster is locked up….PASS

Not a good weekend for rust hunting…


----------



## Mosquito

Kenny, I'll have to grab pictures when I get them home, bought a Miller's Falls something but that's for a different thread lol. No. 4 small drill, I believe.

Few planes, a rule, 4" double square with miter blade, small hammer, and an interesting adjustable t square bevel thing. Pretty good day for me, but even when I come home with nothing but having paid the entrance fee, I enjoy the conversations and catching up all the same


----------



## bandit571

$1 saw..









15 minutes IN the shop..









pre-1928 Disston & Sons D-8….Plate is now straight…rust has been removed…Have not polished the brass, yet..


----------



## EricFai

That looks like a good find for a buck, Bandit.


----------



## donwilwol

Good find Mos 

Here is a new one you guy may be interested in too

https://www.timetestedtools.net/chronicle/the-hand-plane-collection-chronicles-first-edition-the-mark-nickels-collection/

Also, looking for those who want to contribute.


----------



## RWE

> Good find Mos
> 
> Here is a new one you guy may be interested in too
> 
> https://www.timetestedtools.net/chronicle/the-hand-plane-collection-chronicles-first-edition-the-mark-nickels-collection/
> 
> Also, looking for those who want to contribute.
> 
> - Don W


I just bought a copy. I like the concept. Looking forward to getting it this Wednesday.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Finally got a 5 1/2 kidney bean. Cleaned it up today and it came out nicer than expected. Only one more till I have a full set!

Also grabbed a type 17 no.4 today at a flea market for 8.00. Didn't really need it but for 8.00 why not!


----------



## terryR

Don, that's great stuff! 
hmmmm….Stanley with brass sides


----------



## HokieKen

#4 drill is cool Mos. Strikes me as impractical for general use but if you drill a lot of small holes for something, it would be handy. Even if you don't use it though, I think it's a cool looking piece


----------



## bandit571

I would..but I don't think my small stash of planes would make much of a "Collection" to tour through…


----------



## Mosquito

> #4 drill is cool Mos. Strikes me as impractical for general use but if you drill a lot of small holes for something, it would be handy. Even if you don't use it though, I think it's a cool looking piece
> 
> - HokieKen


It might be son sized too lol
Have to figure out drill bits if I were to use it though. It's not a standard chuck, and haven't had time to research what else I can use yet. Set of drill points originally, but I have none lol


----------



## HokieKen

IIRC the collet in that drill is sized for 1/64-3/32" drills Mos. But I don't have one so I can't verify.


----------



## Mosquito

Kenny, it doesn't really seem like a collet, and the catalog drawings seem to indicate special drill points were included/used, but I haven't investigated much.

! https://oldtoolheaven.com/hand_drills/drillimg/DiaPoints.jpg!

Keen Kutter K2, Stanley 100, Stanley 39-3/4", the Miller's Falls no. 4, an angle gauge and ruler, Starrett 4" double square with bevel blade, Starrett 6" small rule, and the small Stanley ball peen.



















Anyone have any info on this guy? No markings that we could find, but it's like the Starrett angle gauge, but it's fenced on both sides. Similar angle markings, locking screws, etc. Neat because of the double fence instead of single sided like my Starretts.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thought I would quickly sneak in a couple pics of a 78 I picked up at a flea market the other day. When I first saw it on the shelf, the guy was trying to sell it for $15. It was missing some parts so I put it back and then he said $10 so I bit. The blade was badly sharpened and I had to remove some rust and grime. I have another Stanley that is a real late one. This one is older and seems better made.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice haul Mos. You seem to have a knack for finding the unusual and cool tools. Congrats on that bunch. I like the angle gauge too.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Mike, it looks like that will get the job done nicely.

And thanks, I'm at the point where I don't "need"&ast; many tools, so it's about neat, interesting, upgrades/replacements, and anything else that catches my eye at this point. I picked up that K2 from the same couple I've bought a bunch of other (mainly Keen Kutter) stuff from in the past, and we usually spend a good hour chatting every time too. Finally caved, and decided it's time to give that Stanley the boot too . I should be able to roughly break even too, which I'm pretty happy about, given the K2's are usually a bit more than the Stanleys around here it seems

&ast; Need from the perspective of getting the woodworking done. Need to scratch the itch and feed the addiction not considered in this context ;-)


----------



## Notw

> Finally got a 5 1/2 kidney bean. Cleaned it up today and it came out nicer than expected. Only one more till I have a full set!
> 
> Also grabbed a type 17 no.4 today at a flea market for 8.00. Didn t really need it but for 8.00 why not!
> 
> - Thedustydutchman


That came out great Jerry and i don't blame you on the no. 4 at all thats a steal


----------



## HokieKen

Based on the green level and the thumb nut, that appears to be a Brown and Sharpe Mos'.









It should have engraving on the fence side flange though. Of course that could have been removed through rust removal at some time in the past.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Kenny, that sure looks like it to a T (Yes, I did that on purpose lol). I'll have to keep an eye out for that when cleaning it up to see. Or could have been an un-branded "made for whomever" type thing too, I suppose.


----------



## corelz125

I have a lot of #8s but I'm not a collector


----------



## terryR

^awesome.










next one finished


----------



## donwilwol

> I have a lot of #8s but I'm not a collector
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - corelz125


Now there is a man in denial! Wow!


----------



## controlfreak

> I have a lot of #8s but I'm not a collector
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - corelz125


Yeah, I can stop anytime I want to.


----------



## TedT2

You got to love a squirrel tail Stanley 100. Those things are cool


----------



## HokieKen

You've been playing grab-ass too much with your #8s Corelz. A bunch of them have busted tails ;-) That's quite the accumulation!


----------



## Lazyman

36 feet worth.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Holy Sh*t, Corelz!


----------



## corelz125

Don I was inspired by Kevin.
Every time I'm on my way to the planes anonymous meeting I get side tracked and buy another plane.
There's a few that need some work done to them Kenny. Couple parts here and there. That's how you know which ones were shelf queens and which were hard workers the tail is busted off. 
Maybe I can send one of them a year to Devin to get tuned up.


----------



## corelz125

Have those things down to a science now Terry. Very nice


----------



## Lazyman

So other than your driveway, where do you store them all?


----------



## corelz125

Most of them in a box with styro foam. Some go on shelves.


----------



## controlfreak

> Most of them in a box with styro foam. Some go on shelves.
> 
> - corelz125


You know you keep them under the bed don't you?


----------



## corelz125

> Most of them in a box with styro foam. Some go on shelves.
> 
> - corelz125
> 
> You know you keep them under the bed don t you?
> 
> - controlfreak


A few that were hard to get and a couple more I want to get, would go there. If the swmbo found them under the bed I would be sleeping on top of the box theyre in now.


----------



## corelz125

> Holy Sh*t, Corelz!
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Getting this reply from the Smittysonian made my day. Lots of heft and Hubris


----------



## DonBroussard

> So, THAT's why Magnetic North is shifting!
Click to expand...


----------



## 33706

Gee, I wonder who it was that ragged on me for supposedly 'hoarding' No. 8's … instead of letting others get a crack at them????


----------



## Mosquito

lol I've gotten that a number of times about my #45 type study collection too


----------



## 33706

> lol I ve gotten that a number of times about my #45 type study collection too
> 
> - Mosquito


Hey, there's plenty for everybody, even in this bleak prairie wilderness I live in, Mos! I don't know where the attitude or reasoning comes from.


----------



## sansoo22

I've never been called a hoarder here but its come up a handful of times on other forums. The strangest time was when I was asked to post my users. I did and got accused of hoarding because I have multiples in my most commonly used sizes.


----------



## corelz125

I never call anyone out for hoarding tools. Is there a fine line between collecting and hoarding? How many #8s are in that cabinet poopie?


----------



## bandit571

I "only" have two #8s….a T-7 smooth and a T-19 c model…figure that is enough..

Found a high spot on my bench…









Millers Falls No. 11, Type 2….









That I have to hide from Kenny…..


----------



## Notw

I've used Johnson's Paste Wax for years to protect hand planes and cast iron surfaces in my shop. It's time to buy another can and I am having a hard time finding it. Lowes and Home Depot seems to be out of stock, Amazon wants $30 for a can which is nuts. Is this a supply chain issue or is this product being discontinued?

Also, is there a comparable alternative?


----------



## EricFai

I found a can at the local Ace Hardward, seems like it was about $15.


----------



## Notw

> I found a can at the local Ace Hardward, seems like it was about $15.
> 
> - Eric


I need to find one of those then


----------



## EricFai

Or if you a old time hardware store in your area, you could check to see if they still carry it.


----------



## Lazyman

Just about any paste wax will do. My 33 year old can of Minwax paste wax is almost gone so I started using something I found at a local hardware store. I actually like it better because it smells more pleasant than the petroleum based one I bought so long ago and it works just as well so far.


----------



## donwilwol

I'm glad I bought a new can a few months ago. The prices have gone insane!


----------



## corelz125

My hardware store sold Staples paste wax. They were around way before the office supply place.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

I prefer a mostly Carnuaba wax blend in the shop.

STAPLES Clear Carnauba paste (bowling alley) wax tends to be cheapest, was ~$15 last year for new tin at Woodcraft.

Amazon is always the last choice buying hazardous materials. They jack up prices dramatically to hide the actual costs of free shipping.

YMMV


----------



## rad457

Have never found a can of Johnston wax around these parts, use paraffin on the bottoms of my planes but not for rust protection Picked up some locally made paste wax a few years ago made from bee's wax that has a real nice citrus smell, good for the hands as well!


----------



## Notw

> Just about any paste wax will do. My 33 year old can of Minwax paste wax is almost gone so I started using something I found at a local hardware store. I actually like it better because it smells more pleasant than the petroleum based one I bought so long ago and it works just as well so far.
> 
> - Lazyman


I agree Nathan the smell of the johnsons is not pleasant


----------



## Lazyman

I just remembered I actually have 2 different kinds of paste wax because I was at my daughters place in NYC and needed some to put on a family heirloom that needed some protection. One can is Liberon which I think that I got from Woodcraft now that I think about it and the other is Trewax which I picked up at a mom and pop hardware store in Brooklyn. Both are mostly carnuba wax with something to soften them and both smell better than the old Minwax can.

BTW, while the mom and pops can be a little more expensive in general, they also sell lower volume so you may find that they have pre-inflation prices because their stock does not turn over as fast and they don't adjust their prices like the big chains do. It is also kind of nice to keep help keep the local shops in business so I regularly go to one nearby instead of the chains just because.


----------



## BugeyedEarl

I recently found two nearly full cans of Johnson's at the local flea market for $1 each. I gave one to a friend, and with the can I bought new a few months ago, I think I have a lifetime supply.

I did notice that the wax in the new can was very soupy, I nearly returned it. It seems to be thickening up (maybe something volatile is evaporating off?) The flea market cans were both solid with a few cracks, like I'm used to seeing in the last old can that I used for ages.


Do we have a "paste wax of your dreams thread? **


----------



## Lazyman

I need some advice. I am doing a sympathetic restore of that Union No 8 I showed about 2 weeks ago, trying to preserve as much of the red japanning as possible and leaving much of the patina on the sole and sides as well. I am having a heck of a time getting the screw that holds the cap iron onto the frog out. It must have been like that for a while because the slot was already a little mangled when I got it. I let it sit overnight with some penetrating oil sitting overnight in the threaded hole that comes out the back of the frog but it still refuses to budge. Any tips on getting that screw out without doing any more damage to the screw or japanning? I would normally try a little heat from a small butane torch but don't want to overheat the japanning.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Percussive maintenance (tapping), and soak time, repeated over time, might do it. Slow and steady wins. Also know that tightening a screw (machine bolt, whatever) sometimes breaks it free easier than only trying to out it.


----------



## RWE

> I need some advice. I am doing a sympathetic restore of that Union No 8 I showed about 2 weeks ago, trying to preserve as much of the red japanning as possible and leaving much of the patina on the sole and sides as well. I am having a heck of a time getting the screw that holds the cap iron onto the frog out. It must have been like that for a while because the slot was already a little mangled when I got it. I let it sit overnight with some penetrating oil sitting overnight in the threaded hole that comes out the back of the frog but it still refuses to budge. Any tips on getting that screw out without doing any more damage to the screw or japanning? I would normally try a little heat from a small butane torch but don t want to overheat the japanning.
> 
> - Lazyman


I had the same problem with the front screw on a plane rear handle. The metal was soft and the slit in the screw head was widening. So after 36 hours or so of penetrating oil, I grabbed my old impact screw driver. I have had that impact driver since the 60's when I got it work on my old Honda 305 Superhawk.

I was mindful of not banging away. Persistent tapping on the impact, light taps finally got the screw to come loose. The virtue of this is that the impact keeps the driver in the slot for maximum leverage.

I had already used the impact on one of the frog screw but it was not that big of a problem since the screw head was more robust. One tap there and it freed up.

Now the bottom of the rear handle is soaked with penetrating oil. Probably will use some Oxalic acid on that to try to even up the color.

The alternative I had come up with if the impact did not work, was to grind the head of the screw off with a Dremel and use vise grips to get the screw out. I was going to put tape or thin metal around the screw head to protect the wood from the Dremel. Luckily, the impact worked.


----------



## HokieKen

Repeated applications of Kroil are pretty near 100% effective for me with steel/cast iron joints. Light taps in all directions will help as well. Light though, cast iron is fairly brittle. I'd probably stay away from impact drivers on a screw that small. The corrosive bond can be stronger than the torque required to sheer the steel at the thread root. If a week with Kroil (or 2 weeks with PB Blaster etc.) doesn't do it, or you're too impatient to wait that long, I'd torch the screw with a small torch.


----------



## RWE

> Repeated applications of Kroil are pretty near 100% effective for me with steel/cast iron joints. Light taps in all directions will help as well. Light though, cast iron is fairly brittle. I d probably stay away from impact drivers on a screw that small. The corrosive bond can be stronger than the torque required to sheer the steel at the thread root. If a week with Kroil (or 2 weeks with PB Blaster etc.) doesn t do it, or you re too impatient to wait that long, I d torch the screw with a small torch.
> 
> - HokieKen


After I wrote about the use of the impact driver, I expected a flurry of replies saying don't use one. I had trepidation, but in my case, I had the plane on a wooden bench and the screw was in the casting on a flat bottom. Different physics from a cap iron screw.

Two weeks waiting for PB Blaster would test my patience. Plus it was ruining the wood or at least staining it.

Also, I had a replacement screw lined up.

I have used the impact for frog screws several times. Those are easy. But the soft metal in that screw was the big issue. I did not want to have to grind off the head and perhaps scar the wood doing so.

But generally, patience and penetrating oil are probably best.


----------



## HokieKen

The impact driver is always tempting to me RWE ;-) I'm not an overly-patient fella. But, I've sheared more than one screw with them too so I treat it is as a last resort with rusted bolts smaller than 3/8" or so.


----------



## Mosquito

Agreed with Kenny.

Though I did once drill a hole in a screw I broke with a wrench, pounded in a #2 square drive bit, and used the impact to back it out… that was a proud day for the impact driver lol


----------



## RWE

> Agreed with Kenny.
> 
> Though I did once drill a hole in a screw I broke with a wrench, pounded in a #2 square drive bit, and used the impact to back it out… that was a proud day for the impact driver lol
> 
> - Mosquito


But was your impact driver a "vintage" tool from the 1960's. I think that makes a difference.


----------



## Lazyman

Thanks. I finally got it out. I squirted some CRC 3-36 in the hole in the back this time and let is sit for another 7 hours and it still wouldn't budge because I could not get much torque on it with the mangled slot. I ground the tip of an old screw driver to get a tighter fit in the mangled slots of old planes and clamped a small vise grip on the shank (because it doesn't yet have a handle on it) and it actually came out pretty easily. I suspect that just getting a better fit in the slot so the screwdriver would not cam out may have been the most important part. I guess I finally need to turn a new handle for that modified screwdriver shaft so I can actually use it on planes like I planed to do.

I should have some pictures of the plane in a day or 2 since I am not doing much other than basic rust removal.

I was wondering if putting some shellac or something else easily removed later if needed would be of any use to protect the old red japanning or maybe even make it stand out a little better? Shellac can easily be removed with alcohol so I would think that it should not damage the japanning if it turns out I don't want it on there. Thoughts?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Shellac should work to protect the japanning (though it's like protecting a piece of steel by wrapping it in nerf… japanning should be a *lot* harder than shellac). But yes, shellac is easily removed.


----------



## Lazyman

I guess I am not really sure if this is really japanning or just some sort of paint? Only color I have seen in true japanning is black. Is there a true japanning that is red? Quick searches for red japanning found references to red lacquer finishes on furniture not the japanning typically done on metal tools.

Part of my thinking about adding some sort of top coat is is to perhaps make the red stand out a little.


----------



## DavePolaschek

There's red urushi lacquer, and there are planes that were "japanned" red (e.g. ), but I'm not sure what they used for that. Almost certainly not urushi lacquer.


----------



## corelz125

Coating it can save it a little where it might be starting to lift. Then rust can't get under it.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> shellac or something else easily removed later if needed would be of any use to protect the old red japanning..


On black hand plane japanning, I have used Loctite Extend rust neutralizer. It is clear lacquer based spray with acid that coverts red iron oxide to black iron oxide stopping further rust growth. It leaves the bare cast iron a dark grey color, which is perfect way to hide damage in black japanning. Sheen is semi-gloss and is close to original. Not sure how well it would work on Red?

If you want a removable coating, need to test surface, to know the durability/type of coating.
First test the surface with wet solvent rag and vigorous rub. 
If ANY color transfers to a white rag, the finish will soften or lift with that solvent and it should be avoided.

If you simply want to make the existing surface look better: 
- Use a wire brush on a Dremel tool for any rust you can see.
- De-grease with water/dawn, followed by alcohol wash to quickly dry surface and prevent flash rust.
- then when dry, spray several very light coats of clear semi-gloss enamel. 
Give this a week to cure before reassembly as the solvents may soften the existing japanning.

Cheers!


----------



## sansoo22

Haven't posted a restoration in a while so here is a Stanley Type 7 No 3 I've been working on. This is one of 6 current restorations I have in various states. Will have images of more coming soon.


----------



## Lazyman

The Loctite rust neutralizer sounds a lot like the Rustoleum rust reducer? If so, that sounds like it might cover the red japanning that I want to preserve and highlight.

Wire brush may be too aggressive for this. True japanning can usually withstand the dremel wire brushes but in my experience enamels and paints with some surface rust often cannot. Since I do not know exactly what kind of coating this is. I want to be a little more careful with it. When I want to preserve coatings I usually use these bristle disks because they are more gentle but can still slowly work on surface rust but usually not remove all patina down to shiny steel. That worked fairly well and I am pretty much done with rust removal and cleaning of the main body. This plane is definitely going to reflect its long history.

I did a test with some DNA and it does seem to remove a little of the red so this may be some sort of lacquer? I have had some lacquers come off with the usual big box DNA. I think that I am probably going to just keep it simple and go with a light coat of carnauba paste wax with minimal buffing.


----------



## HokieKen

Haven't seen any Sansoo goodness in a while! I need a cold shower now ;-)


----------



## corelz125

Any V&bs in the clean up process Sansoo?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Looking good Sansoo. Really good.


----------



## donwilwol

Anything that keeps moisture away from metal prevents further rust, and general maintenance will stop rust from continuing.

I've used the rust converters before but not on hand planes. It won't hurt although I'm not sure it adds any real value either. I suppose it may speed up the process.


----------



## Lazyman

I have used the Rustoleum Rust Reformer before on other projects. It is is sort of like applying a black primer and it might be okay if I didn't want to keep the existing red japanning (or whatever it is) or just wanted to repaint it but taking it back to bare metal with wire wheel or sand blasting and then repainting would look probably look better.


----------



## HokieKen

I like phosphoric acid rust converter but I only use it when I want to save the japanning/enamel on a plane and the rust is more than surface. It makes a noticable color change so I avoid it typically if I'm restoring a plane to be purrdy.

Speaking of…. finally got a weekend without rain. Of course it's also 90 friggin degrees :-( So I needed a brief reprieve from yard work 









The router plane has sat neglected for weeks awaiting a new paint job. And I forgot I had even blasted the little block plane. I don't know how long he's been sitting naked and lonely under my bench…


----------



## bandit571

This MIGHT take a while…









$3 for the pair…Chisel is a Craftsman 3/4" chisel








Plane is either a Sargent OR a Millers Falls….Plane is outside, having a PBlaster soak..without the front knob…


----------



## bandit571

Underside of the cap iron has a 307 and a 308….iron has a DUNLAP APPROVED stamp


----------



## sansoo22

From left to right we have a Type 11 #7, Type 13 #6, Type 14 #5, and a Type 11 #4. The #6 and #7 were commissioned restores so the irons aren't quite right for the types but they work. The #4 and #5 were from my inventory and all 4 are going to the same customer. I think they are getting quite a nice starter set.


----------



## Lazyman

I did a little more testing just to make sure that reddish color that came off the Ohio No 8 with the DNA wasn't just rust or grime residue. I tested some mineral spirits and nothing came off on the paper towel. I tried DNA again and it lifted some of the reddish finish. That seems to indicate that this is not a true japanned finish but some sort of lacquer.


----------



## donwilwol

The maroon color on Ohio tools has been a subject of several discussions on the hand plane groups on Facebook. The experts can't seem to agree. Some insist it's maroon japanning (which I guess there was such a thing) and some say it is not. The real experts seem to say they don't know.

I know replicating the color seems to be quite the challenge as well.


----------



## controlfreak

Once again a beautiful job sansoo!


----------



## adot45

Beautiful set Sansoo22, really enjoy seeing your work.


----------



## bandit571

Upon further review…..Lever cap iron markings: 306 and 307
Stamped in the base behind the mouth opening: 217-16

Stamped into the iron: DUNLAP APPROVED BL 619. 3701
Length of base: 7-1/8"

Iron has 3 slots all the way through. Has a LOT of pitting down at the edge to remove.

Knob has had it's finish renewed. Bolt for the knob has been cleaned up, and given a drop of oil to stay that way.

Depth adjuster cleaned up, and oiled….works great. Bolt for the cap iron also cleaned and oiled…

Will get some pictures done, later today….

ps: There was a plane, in original box….that I declined…..Plane was a G-4 by great neck….with a black lever, and black plastic "Finger grip" handles…..PASS!


----------



## corelz125

You spoiled them Sansoo now they think every plane is suppose to look like that.


----------



## Lazyman

This is as far as I am going to take this Ohio No. 08.

So you do not have to page back to see original condition:








After cleaning the red or maroon finish is actually in decent shape considering where it started. 








I did manage to find the maker's mark under the rust on the iron. Someone really wailed on this iron for some reason to the point that they mushroomed the end and actually bent the iron a little at the end too. It doesn't affect how the iron and chip breaker lay on the frog so I didn't try to straighten it. I didn't take a picture but the underside of the chip breaker appears to be painted grey. 








There is one little knick on one of the edges but otherwise no cracks and the sole is pretty darn flat too so I did just enough work on the sole and cheeks to remove obvious rust. I used a razor blade first and then very slight wet sand with some 600 grit paper. 




































I just did a basic sharpening so far but may try to take a little of the camber out of the edge at some point. Right now the widest shaving I can get is about 1". I seem to get the finest shavings with the frog nearly as far forward as it will go. Is that normal for one of these thick, wedged irons?

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I did use a little sandpaper on the furniture just to remove some paint splatters and smears but did not completely remove the varnish on them. I did wipe them with a little danish oil just to freshen them a bit but they still mostly show their wear.

Let me know if any of you want any other pictures.


----------



## EricFai

That looks good Nathan, a job well done.


----------



## donwilwol

here is how i like to set the ohio tools plane with a thick blade https://www.timetestedtools.net/2020/09/03/sharpening-and-setting-an-early-ohio-tools-hand-plane/

great job on the #08


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Good stuff Don. I don't plan to ever own an Ohio plane (not a collector) but still found it interesting.


----------



## corelz125

Thats a good looking 08. I would of left the jappaning alone to.


----------



## Mosquito

I set my Ohio made Keen Kutters up about the same way as Don linked to


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm Rehab about…..done..









Sole will do…









This IS a block plane….









Iron still needs some work….









217-16? Iron is stamped as BL 619.3701 DUNLAP APPROVED

Hmmmmm…


----------



## Lazyman

> here is how i like to set the ohio tools plane with a thick blade https://www.timetestedtools.net/2020/09/03/sharpening-and-setting-an-early-ohio-tools-hand-plane/
> 
> great job on the #08
> 
> - Don W


Thanks, Don, that helped.


----------



## HokieKen

Sansoo - great looking set for your customer. You can't buy 4 planes that look that nice anywhere else!

Nathan - good call on the Ohio. I like that color and given the enigmatic composition of the original finish, I'd have probably left it too. Personally, on a #8, I'd take all the camber out of the iron. You want to be peeling wide shavings with that size plane and leaving a few tracks isn't going to hurt anything. That's what smoothers are for.

Bandit - pretty sure that block isn't a MF made one. I don't recall having seen any of their's with a cast number under the blade like that. In any case, it cleaned up nice and should make a good user 

I took the opportunity to dip my toe in the enamel-baking pool over the weekend. Since I painted a small block plane, I decided to give it a bake in my shop toaster oven following Sansoo's recipe. Looks mighty good so far  I didn't bake the lever cap so I can compare them after they cure completely and see if there's enough difference to make the baking a worthwhile extra step. More photos to come…


----------



## corelz125

I only baked the finish on my planes because that was the directions on the can of enamel. It did help to level it off a little.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah it did seem to smooth the finish out a little better than letting it cure on its own. I think getting the shrinkage done in short period in a controlled environment will probably improve results overall. My wife came in the shop and immediately complained about the smell though so I guess I won't be baking anything that won't fit in my toaster oven though. Although, I can hold temperature very consistently in my Big Green Egg. Maybe I'll smoke the enamel on my next bench plane ;-)


----------



## Notw

Sansoo those came out looking awesome, the knobs and handles look flawless.


----------



## RWE

> Yeah it did seem to smooth the finish out a little better than letting it cure on its own. I think getting the shrinkage done in short period in a controlled environment will probably improve results overall. My wife came in the shop and immediately complained about the smell though so I guess I won t be baking anything that won t fit in my toaster oven though. Although, I can hold temperature very consistently in my Big Green Egg. Maybe I ll smoke the enamel on my next bench plane ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


I baked the last two planes that I refurbed and had a much smoother finish. So I am all in on baking.

The only trick to it is the timing. You must time everything and get the baking done when the wife will be away for several hours.


----------



## HokieKen

Well, another lesson hard-learned. If you're going to scrape paint from the edges of a plane, do it BEFORE you bake it. I'm probably going to be painting the block plane again.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Kidney bean no.2! Well…sort of anyway. Can you spot whats wrong?

Can I still claim my set is complete? Probably not i suppose.


----------



## sansoo22

From that angle its hard to tell but the knob on your #2 looks a little funky compared to the one that's on my type 15. Only other thing I see is the infill of the lever cap looks brass colored. That could be lighting, paint, or someone cleaned it with a brass wheel.

I really like the full line up of kidney bean Stanleys. Most of my users are just whatever plane I liked the most. The only 3 I have that are of the same type are my 2, 3, and 4 type 15s with orange frogs.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Correct sir! The knob is not quite right. No idea what it's actually from. But the big one is the lever cap. It's a kidney bean for sure but it seems to be a filed down no.3 cap (type 21? It's yellow backfill) someone made to fit. The no.2 with the kidney bean is 8 inches (longer that the normal 7 1/2) someone took a regular no 2 and put the wrong cap on it. Neat to have a no.2 but sadly it still does not complete my set.


----------



## donwilwol

I've seen a lot of #2s like that. I never figured out if it was a "thing" to change them for a larger one or Stanley just used what they had.


----------



## Notw

> Well, another lesson hard-learned. If you're going to scrape paint from the edges of a plane, do it BEFORE you bake it. I'm probably going to be painting the block plane again.
> 
> - HokieKen


What kind of paint are you trying to bake?


----------



## bandit571

Way too many "Model Numbers" on one Block plane…
..








Cap iron has the 306/307 stamp
Iron has the BL 619.3701
Base has a 217-16 stamp

Appears to be a Sargent, made for Sears, as a Dunlap…..but…..which model was the Sargent version?









Hmmm..


----------



## HokieKen

> Well, another lesson hard-learned. If you're going to scrape paint from the edges of a plane, do it BEFORE you bake it. I'm probably going to be painting the block plane again.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> What kind of paint are you trying to bake?
> 
> - Notw


It's the Duplicolor Engine Enamel. It wasn't the baking that was the problem, it was waiting until after baking to try to remove the paint from the edges with a razor blade. The paint was just too hard after baking to be able to get a clean edge. The cheeks did okay but you can see I chipped some out on the heel. I didn't sand the edges smooth before painting either which only made it harder to get a clean cut with the razor. I will say, baking did give a nice even finish and I think was well worth the extra step


----------



## Thedustydutchman

> I ve seen a lot of #2s like that. I never figured out if it was a "thing" to change them for a larger one or Stanley just used what they had.
> 
> - Don W


I think I'll make up a fun story and say its a super rare one off custom lol. Just to make myself feel better about it not being right. It actually cleaned up really well so it will stay with me for a while. At least until I find a real kidney bean no.2.


----------



## controlfreak

Kenny,

I can't remember if I cleaned up the edges before or after baking, probably before.


----------



## Lazyman

Even without baking, I get better results removing the engine paint from the edge with wet-dry sandpaper. The one time I tried to scrape it, I got a ragged edge; plus, the fine sandpaper polishes the edges too.


----------



## Notw

i find scraping the edge works fine but it needs to be done within the first 24 hours, if you let it cure for a few days you will get some edge chipping, not as bad as Ken's example above but noticeable.


----------



## HokieKen

I scraped the edges on my last bench plane and was tickled with the results. But, I didn't bake it…


----------



## BlasterStumps

i must be doing it wrong. I have just masked off the tops of the sides.


----------



## Notw

Blaster that's a fine way to do it, I find for me i can scrape it with a razor blade faster and with better results


----------



## HokieKen

That's how I always did it until Sansoo suggested scraping instead Mike. I was just never completely happy with the crispness of the lines when I masked those edges. I found that scraping paint afterwards with a razor blade gave me edges I liked better.


----------



## Notw

Another tip I use, which I'm not sure where I picked it up is to use a small need file to cut the edges, especially when on something like the frog instead of using a razor blade and trying to get close


----------



## sansoo22

> That s how I always did it until Sansoo suggested scraping instead Mike. I was just never completely happy with the crispness of the lines when I masked those edges. I found that scraping paint afterwards with a razor blade gave me edges I liked better.
> 
> - HokieKen


I sand my edges down to 220 before painting. Paint, wait 24 to 48 hrs depending on humidity levels at the time, scrape the edges, blow the body off with the compressor, and finally bake. Most the time if I follow this method the edges peel off in long strips. Once baked you can come back in with 320/400 and get a nice clean shiny edge to your planes.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I'll definitely sand the edges before I repaint it. I think I would have been okay even after baking if I had smooth edges for the razor to ride on. But between the hard paint and the constant digging in of the blade, it wasn't pretty…


----------



## Notw

> Another tip I use, which I m not sure where I picked it up is to use a small needle file to cut the edges, especially when on something like the frog instead of using a razor blade and trying to get close
> 
> - Notw


----------



## Notw

Not sure why it quoted myself….sorry


----------



## HokieKen

Sometimes I forget what I said too.


----------



## Notw

My wife claims I do that a lot, or I forget what she said, I'm not sure which I wasn't listening.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> Not sure why it quoted myself….sorry - Notw





> Sometimes I forget what I said too. - HokieKen


BTDTGTTS

Thank you for submitting your Klutz membership application.
As soon as the club secretary hobbles home from his fateful tree trimming with a circular saw while on top of a 30 foot ladder; your application will be promptly reviewed. :-(0)

For faster processing of your Klutz Club membership fee, please forward your; full name, current address, SSN, bank routing code + account number, and medical insurance information via PM.

Once a Klutz, always a Klutz.
... #IAMAKLUTZ


----------



## 33706

> Not sure why it quoted myself….sorry - Notw Sometimes I forget what I said too. - HokieKen BTDTGTTS
> 
> Thank you for submitting your Klutz membership application.
> As soon as the club secretary hobbles home from his fateful tree trimming with a circular saw while on top of a 30 foot ladder; your application will be promptly reviewed. :-(0)
> 
> For faster processing of your Klutz Club membership fee, please forward your; full name, current address, SSN, bank routing code + account number, and medical insurance information via PM.
> 
> Once a Klutz, always a Klutz.
> ... #IAMAKLUTZ
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


Not to be a jerk or anything, but it needs to be said, the *Klutz* family built beautiful violins, over three generations, in the18th and 19th century. How their name became associated with clumsiness, I don't know…


----------



## controlfreak

That's because one of them built a fiddle by accident I'll bet.


----------



## HokieKen

Klutz has Yiddish roots. The original word literally translated means "block of wood."


----------



## HokieKen

Also, I have been told I'm a fair hand at making nice things in my shop. However, if you saw me on the trampoline with my grandkids, you'd know that elegance doesn't always transfer from one arena to the other ;-)


----------



## EricFai

Do you ware the cape when your on the trampoline Kenny?


----------



## 33706

> Klutz has Yiddish roots. The original word literally translated means "block of wood."
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks,* Ken!* But I must say I mis-spoke. I had a friend who had a* Klotz* violin, he properly pronounced it 'Klutz'. Just to set the record straight. Never actually saw the name in writing.


----------



## HokieKen

> Do you ware the cape when your on the trampoline Kenny?
> 
> - Eric


Not since I taught the 5 year-old redhead what a horse-collar is…


----------



## RWE

I am on a road trip. I stopped by an Antique store. The store owner had his previous location hit by a tornado. At his new location, he had a basement with two or three boxes of old wooden planes. Most were incomplete and defective in one way or another.

I picked two skewed iron rabbet planes (Auburn Tool) and I had always wanted just a good clean coffin smoother, and I found one of those as well (Buffalo, on iron, which I assume means NY). I will post pictures later.

So I see this incomplete *wooden plow with good wood screws and body.* That is in itself a rare find. However it had no wedge or iron. I am in a hurry and I passed on it.

Now I am thinking of dropping by on my return home and picking it up.

*Long story but this is my question. Did those wooden plows have a single iron (no chip breaker) typically??? Or did they feature an iron with a chip breaker and a wedge with a groove to allow for that? I expect that they had a single iron, no chip breaker, but I wondered if anyone had one to give me guidance on that point.*

The Antique dealer has so many parts: irons, wedges, misc. parts etc. that I was going to find an iron that might work and a couple of "period" wedges and give a try at bringing that plow back to working shape.

Maybe I am a bit insane, but I love how those wooden screw plows look. It might be a shelf sitter, but it will be a pretty one, hopefully.


----------



## theoldfart

My wooden plow uses single irons with a wedge. It was made by M Copeland sometime before the civil war in Huntington, MA. The irons were made in Rhode Island by the Providence tool Co. I've haven't encountered a wooden plow that didn't use a wedge and iron setup.


----------



## RWE

> My wooden plow uses single irons with a wedge. It was made by Copeland sometime before the civil war in Huntington, MA. The irons were made in Rhode Island. I've haven't encountered a wooden plow that didn't use a wedge and iron setup.
> 
> - theoldfart


Thanks.

I looked online and the wedges and irons look like those used in my other wooden planes. I hope to find an iron or two in the fellows assortment. I have a means of cutting an iron so my hope is to get something close in size. Cutting a wedge should not be too much of a problem. Probably will cut one in a soft wood to get the shape, then use that one as a template for the real one, probably Beech.

I hope the fellow will deal on it. Will know tomorrow.


----------



## theoldfart

One thing to know is the back of the irons have a groove that mates with the steel skate. It keeps the iron positioned laterally.


----------



## RWE

> One thing to know is the back of the irons have a groove that mates with the steel skate. It keeps the iron positioned laterally.
> 
> - theoldfart


That is good to know. I will be going through two or three large boxes looking for parts, so maybe I see an iron with a groove in it.


----------



## theoldfart

Finding a full set is your best option. Otherwise you'll be doing a lot of adjusting while setting the wedge each time you change cutters.


----------



## Mosquito

K2 is now cleaned up and back in to service. I might do some more repair and touch up if the knob and tote, as they have done cracking and previous repairs. Haven't flattened the done yet, but it's fully functional.


----------



## Lazyman

I decided to post my restoration of the $10 #112 over in the Restoration before and after thread in case any of you wants to see it and are not watching that thread.

But here is a teaser:


----------



## HokieKen

Great stuff Mos' and Nathan. Make me want to quit working on my job and get back to working on my router plane!


----------



## 33706

Speaking of router planes, who's got a sure-fire method of sharpening/ honing router plane cutters??


----------



## Mosquito

For traditional irons I follow the same as Paul Sellers demonstrates here.

Otherwise on my Walke-Moore and larger Lee Valley irons, the business end is removable, so I go about it the same as any other iron (apart from making sure they're square)


----------



## MikeB_UK

> One thing to know is the back of the irons have a groove that mates with the steel skate. It keeps the iron positioned laterally.
> 
> - theoldfart
> 
> That is good to know. I will be going through two or three large boxes looking for parts, so maybe I see an iron with a groove in it.
> 
> - RWE


The irons are tapered, so pretty easy to spot.


----------



## corelz125

Router plane irons are frustrating little critters to sharpen


----------



## RWE

So I went by the "tornado" Antiques mall again. From what the proprietor told me, he had bought the assortment of wooden planes from a vendor that had closed shop. I will post later on some of the wooden planes that I got, but here is a picture of the plow that I did get. Good price, got it, a round, several irons and chip breakers from big wooden jointer planes, a Stanley Mitre box 246 in good shape with all the parts (Sweetheart era) except for the work holding clamps, a couple of old wedges to try to modify for the plow, for $75.00. Not Bandit territory but close. I figure the 246 alone is worth that (no saw, but I have one already that will work).

In looking online, I came across an image that looked like this plow and it was described as an "Early Russian" plow?? No maker's marks to be found. I figured if the irons had been with it, might have had mark there.

I checked Ebay and I can get an iron or multiples there. * If any of you have duplicates or spares PM me. * The mouth "frog" ramp is about an inch 1/8 to an inch 1/4. No experience with these plows, but I am assuming that the skate at the bottom was a standard width so that a given plane could accept other makers irons?? I also guess that the mouth/frog ramp width was somewhat a standard. I am not sure, but I would expect the slot in the iron to fit to the skate and lock in the iron and it is not that dependent on the walls of the frog mouth opening holding the iron. *Kevin: Can your clarify this. Explain to a novice how these work?*

I mainly wanted to get it to refurb and clean up. Could not bear to leave it in the cardboard box in the basement of that Antique shop.




























246. Will post on the mitre box thread. Has two length stop rods underneath, both front and rear clips, foot levelers, just no work holding clamps, but does have the clamps that would lock them down.



















Also forgot about the 190, part of the $75 package:

Seems the fish scale handle makes it a bit more rare than a floral handle?? Per Blood and Gore.
What concerned me was the curvature on the bottom of the lever cap. I was wondering it that was broken or normal. Very smooth, so I guess it was a design to allow for clearance with shavings?


----------



## corelz125

That's lever cap is broken


----------



## theoldfart

If you look at the cutter pic Mike posted you'll notice that the cutters are the same width, only the business end changes. It's the width of the bed that holds them in position. I have a few extra cutters so pm your address and I'll get them mailed to you.
I want to look at my plow and check out the bed slot. Yours looks wide to me, maybe take a different style iron.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photo?









Not much can make a Stanley No.8c look like a Jack plane, but..









59" of 1×6 Maple comes close..


----------



## RWE

> If you look at the cutter pic Mike posted you'll notice that the cutters are the same width, only the business end changes. It's the width of the bed that holds them in position. I have a few extra cutters so pm your address and I'll get them mailed to you.
> I want to look at my plow and check out the bed slot. Yours looks wide to me, maybe take a different style iron.
> 
> - theoldfart


PM Sent. If your cutters are narrower, I can probably put a side wall in the plow to compensate.


----------



## RWE

This is the plane on Ebay that looks most similar to the one I picked up today. The seller described it as an "Early Soviet" plane??? Does not match exactly, but the style is similar.

First I am a "deplorable" and now I am a "commie".

Early Soviet on Ebay


----------



## theoldfart

The cutter set has eight irons with the 1/8 there twice!

My plow










Cutters and the wedge










And cutter width compared to bed width










The cutter set if you want it, width varies from 9/16 to 5/8".


----------



## BlasterStumps

RWE, Nice find on the 246 box. Did you get the tie bar and screws for it?


----------



## RWE

Would love the cutter(s). I think my idea of narrowing the width of the bed would allow them to work, adding some side wall. That makes the new plow something that I can really utilize.

I will start cleaning it this weekend and see if can get the wood rejuvenated a bit.


----------



## RWE

> RWE, Nice find on the 246 box. Did you get the tie bar and screws for it?
> 
> - BlasterStumps


I guess I did not notice that. LOL. I have a Poa refurbed 358, so I should know to look for that. It was kind of like the plow plane. I just hated to see it left in that basement. I like doing the refurb work but honestly don't have much room for another box. My 358 is an SW box as well.

Are you the custodian on the Poa parts inventory?


----------



## theoldfart

That would be me RWE


----------



## ac0rn

I don't have a collection of tools, to me they are all considered user's. This week I became a collector, and one is going to be enough. See post 12892. So my collection is a splendid example of Sansoo's talents.
Thank you Josh.


----------



## 33706

> For traditional irons I follow the same as Paul Sellers demonstrates here.
> 
> Otherwise on my Walke-Moore and larger Lee Valley irons, the business end is removable, so I go about it the same as any other iron (apart from making sure they re square)
> 
> - Mosquito


*Thanks, Mos! I didn't even think of looking for a Paul Sellers video!!*


----------



## MikeB_UK

RWE - not sure what irons fit those early ruskie ones, throat definitely than standard at 9/8ths, your idea of packing the sides will probably work.

My soviet one is a later one, but more in line with UK ones, It was a bit narrower than the 5/8ths and needed widening out slightly, but now takes my normal irons.









Instead if filling the throat I'd try making a custom wedge first to fit the irons into the existing plane as is - Should be easier to tweak to get the iron centered on the skate.


----------



## RWE

> RWE - not sure what irons fit those early ruskie ones, throat definitely than standard at 9/8ths, your idea of packing the sides will probably work.
> 
> My soviet one is a later one, but more in line with UK ones, It was a bit narrower than the 5/8ths and needed widening out slightly, but now takes my normal irons.
> 
> Instead if filling the throat I d try making a custom wedge first to fit the irons into the existing plane as is - Should be easier to tweak to get the iron centered on the skate.
> 
> - MikeB_UK


Great idea. Kevin is going to send me some irons and I will follow your advice and make a custom wedge.

That is a fine set of plows, or ploughs.

Excited to have the plane. From your research, would you say that that style of plane would be Russian made? I get the sense that the one I picked up is not early, but a very late build, just based on the shape it is in. So I was wondering if they were still in production or were in production a lot later than Western planes.

I left a moving filister (no depth stop but otherwise ok), another plow but with "beams" and wedges, but no wedges, but it was in poor shape . If I ever get up that way again, I might pick up the filister. The vendor was a very nice fellow. The Antique store is about an hour and half north west from my location and I rarely travel that direction.


----------



## 33706

> RWE - not sure what irons fit those early ruskie ones, throat definitely than standard at 9/8ths, your idea of packing the sides will probably work.
> 
> My soviet one is a later one, but more in line with UK ones, It was a bit narrower than the 5/8ths and needed widening out slightly, but now takes my normal irons.
> 
> Instead if filling the throat I d try making a custom wedge first to fit the irons into the existing plane as is - Should be easier to tweak to get the iron centered on the skate.
> 
> - MikeB_UK


*I got rid of all my planes from the former Soviet Bloc. It seems they were demanding or occupying shelf space that they weren't legitimately entitled to.*


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Great idea. Kevin is going to send me some irons and I will follow your advice and make a custom wedge.
> That is a fine set of plows, or ploughs.


Cheers



> Excited to have the plane. From your research, would you say that that style of plane would be Russian made? I get the sense that the one I picked up is not early, but a very late build, just based on the shape it is in. So I was wondering if they were still in production or were in production a lot later than Western planes.
> - RWE


Basen on the stems being fixed to the body instead of the fence, I'd go Russia, somewhere in Eastern europe or France. The throat means it should be early - but a lot of planes were user made so unless there is a makers mark on it, it's hard to judge place or age - the shape it's in isn't normally a good indication of the age, wooden planes can last a very long time in good conditions. 
How the skate is attached is normally a better indication - any relatively recent build will probably have phillips screws.


----------



## HokieKen

Whatcha mean my #8 lever cap won't fit my #7 plane?


----------



## RWE

> Basen on the stems being fixed to the body instead of the fence, I d go Russia, somewhere in Eastern europe or France. The throat means it should be early - but a lot of planes were user made so unless there is a makers mark on it, it s hard to judge place or age - the shape it s in isn t normally a good indication of the age, wooden planes can last a very long time in good conditions.
> How the skate is attached is normally a better indication - any relatively recent build will probably have phillips screws.
> 
> - MikeB_UK


Well the mystery continues. The skate is pinned in place. 4 pins in the rear, 2 in the front skate.

But the kicker is the depth stop screws go into "Threaded Inserts". I don't know, but I believe threaded inserts may be a more recent deal? Maybe it had wooden threads tapped in and someone added the inserts later.

So I guess the skate was put into place, probably epoxied or glued. The body was drilled and a pin was driven into the holes. Reminds me of how handles are fitted to saw plates on newly made saws. Holes are visible on both sides of the body. Pictures show them if you can zoom in a bit.

Also, the thumb screw used on the depth stop seems "modern". I guess it is possible that it is an old model that someone updated with threaded inserts and serious thumb screws. Or it is somewhat modern and recent in manufacture.


----------



## bandit571

> Whatcha mean my #8 lever cap won't fit my #7 plane?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


Ok, NOW, remove the same amount from the angled sides….and it will look much better, rather than looking like someone had simply filed it down to fit…


----------



## Notw

I got worried at first, then I noticed it was just a Miller Falls plane LOL


----------



## RWE

> I got worried at first, then I noticed it was just a Miller Falls plane LOL
> 
> - Notw


Speaking of Millers Falls. I was on my recent expedition in the basement of the Antique Shop where boxes and boxes of incomplete wooden planes were stored.

I think the tension in deciding what to get, what to ignore was inducing a dizziness and I found myself leaning on the proprietor's workbench. This high pitched voice kept ringing in my ear as I tried to steady myself and not pass out. The voice kept saying: "Look in front of you dummy. You have to get that plane." I stumbled a bit and this impish creature fell off of my shoulder and sprawled out on the workbench in front of me. He was an odd looking fellow. Had on a green cape. Pretty much overweight too.

That imp had been yelling in my ear the whole time. My vision cleared up and I looked and the imp was pointing at this Red and Black plane near me. I examined it and on the iron was "Millers Falls". When I had looked at it, the imp started jumping up and down and making some funny turkey sounds.

So my head starts clearing up. I think "I am a Stanley and Sargent man". I don't want another smoother and certainly not a Millers Falls.

About that time, I felt a push on my other shoulder and a beautiful fairy leaped off my shoulder and landed on the bench. She did a cartwheel and then kicked the imp off the bench and to the floor where he ran away and hid. She was wearing a UGA cheerleader uniform and she smiled at me and said: "Get it, it is Red and Black".

Millers Falls 900 Red and Black edition:


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Well the mystery continues. The skate is pinned in place. 4 pins in the rear, 2 in the front skate.
> 
> But the kicker is the depth stop screws go into "Threaded Inserts". I don t know, but I believe threaded inserts may be a more recent deal? Maybe it had wooden threads tapped in and someone added the inserts later.
> 
> So I guess the skate was put into place, probably epoxied or glued. The body was drilled and a pin was driven into the holes. Reminds me of how handles are fitted to saw plates on newly made saws. Holes are visible on both sides of the body. Pictures show them if you can zoom in a bit.
> 
> Also, the thumb screw used on the depth stop seems "modern". I guess it is possible that it is an old model that someone updated with threaded inserts and serious thumb screws. Or it is somewhat modern and recent in manufacture.
> - RWE


Ahh, looking at that, I'm edging toward an old plane that got retrofitted with the skate and screws, then the depth stop was added at a later point.
Hard to see what those thumbscrews are made of - looks like bakelite in the pics


----------



## HokieKen

LOL RWE! That cheerleader came looking for the imp afterwards. She's clucking like a hen now and wearing a green cape and a smile ;-)

Bandit, that was my plan but I think it looks better like it is. I only had to take a light skim cut from each side.


----------



## RWE

> Ahh, looking at that, I m edging toward an old plane that got retrofitted with the skate and screws, then the depth stop was added at a later point.
> Hard to see what those thumbscrews are made of - looks like bakelite in the pics
> 
> - MikeB_UK


I thought they were plastic when I first felt them, but they are painted metal, very solid. The fact that I thought they were plastic got me on the whole, this is a recent build tangent.

The wood all seems to match up good so I never figured it would be an incremental build as you speculate. However the species used may be common where ever it was made.

I am thinking it was a mass produced item because I don't think a custom builder would use the pins technique. Might have been sold in the Soviet Block equivalent of Home Depot. LOL

No matter what, I have wooden screws on a plow plane and I can cross that irrational obsession off the list and proceed to the next one.

The moving filister that I left at that shop is yelling at me now.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Kenny, you get to have all the fun with all those machines. All I have is a cordless drill that just about broke my right wrist a few minutes ago when the bit got stuck. : (. My wife says: "See, there ya go! That's what happens when you get tools you shouldn't be using."


----------



## BlasterStumps

deleted, double post


----------



## drsurfrat

Sounds more like a reason to get a new drill press


----------



## donwilwol

> Whatcha mean my #8 lever cap won't fit my #7 plane?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


UUmmm is that legal?


----------



## theoldfart

Maybe in Elbonia or Bizerkastan, questionable here!


----------



## MikeB_UK

> I am thinking it was a mass produced item because I don t think a custom builder would use the pins technique. Might have been sold in the Soviet Block equivalent of Home Depot. LOL


Depends on what the pins are made of, if they are iron, then nail through cut off and pein is a tried and tested method, cheap, quick and reliable. 
Around that area could have been either, scratchbuilt, plane with plough and stop added, plough plane with stop added, none of the above.

Ah, hell, stick an iron in it and cut some grooves.



> No matter what, I have wooden screws on a plow plane and I can cross that irrational obsession off the list and proceed to the next one.
> 
> The moving filister that I left at that shop is yelling at me now.
> - RWE


I know how you feel, I want a badger (panel raiser) plane, but there aren't that many cheap ones in good condition around - probably because if you were making raised panels back then you were good enough to just freehand it with a rebate plane. It's probably even worse that I can make a raised panel without one, but still want it


----------



## HokieKen

I think it's okay to mill the lever cap as long as I give it new furniture too.


----------



## adot45

Pretty Rosewood.


----------



## corelz125

Is that some of the Cocobolo from SOCAL there Kenny?


----------



## HokieKen

It sure is Corelz  I was cutting some blanks to turn knobs for my router plane and got sidetracked…


----------



## adot45

OK, I goofed"……..☺


----------



## HokieKen

Cocobolo is a Rosewood Dave ;-)


----------



## adot45

Thanks Ken, learn something every day.


----------



## corelz125

This is a new way to remove rust. Some of you might of seen it before but a first for me.


----------



## RWE

> This is a new way to remove rust. Some of you might of seen it before but a first for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - corelz125


Interesting but a little to late today. I just got through cleaning about 5 irons and chip breakers on my restorer drum on a lathe rig.

I will give it a try though. Interesting.


----------



## EricFai

I need to file that away for future use, at least give it a try.


----------



## Mosquito

I've seen that trick used for things like cast iron machine tables before, but not seen it used on planes like that. No reason it shouldn't work there too, I suppose



> UUmmm is that legal?
> 
> - Don W


It's already in drag, so I guess why not lol


----------



## HokieKen

Now if I can find a body for a Millers Falls #7 I'll have fully converted my Fulton version


----------



## Lazyman

Well let me know when you do and have a complete Fulton leftover to sell.


----------



## adot45

Went for a ride this morning to a flea market and picked up two items. The Stanley No.3 has a type 11 base but a tall knob and also a Sweetheart iron. Seems sketchy but the wood is in great shape and it really does have an unmolested look to it, . Otherwise I would have passed on it. I'll post it on the restoration before and after thread if I can decide the best rust approach for me at the moment. My sand blaster is charged with black beauty right now and that's kinda rough so that leaves evaporust or electrolysis.

The keen Kutter jack knife isn't old (IDT) but I lost my Uncle Henry I carried for years so needed a pocket knife.


----------



## HokieKen

That KK knife is really cool looking Dave! I hope you know Mos' is already plotting how he can relieve you of it ;-)


----------



## adot45

> That KK knife is really cool looking Dave! I hope you know Mos' is already plotting how he can relieve you of it ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


LOL, I know Mosquito is all about Keen Kutter, I wasn't trying to tempt him though.


----------



## HokieKen

> Well let me know when you do and have a complete Fulton leftover to sell.
> 
> - Lazyman


I really had no intention of converting it, I was just using it as a place holder until I eventually got a MF branded one. Then I ended up with an extra lever cap from a #8 and thought I'd mill it down so it would match the rest. Then an OE iron from a #7 lived on Ebay for a couple months and the seller kept refusing my offers. Until Mos' bought it for me  Then I noticed the frog on the Fulton isn't as well-machined as it's MF brother and some PO had removed the rivet from the lateral lever and attached it with a screw and nut. So when the #7 frog showed up last week, I meant to bid and forgot and it ended without selling. So when it was reposted yesterday, I sent a best offer to BIN for the opening bid amount and he accepted. And pottz sent me a chunk of Cocobolo last year specifically for the purpose of making furniture for my MF planes that have Mahogany now.

So I've pretty well replaced it bit-by-bit. The only things remaining from the original Fulton are the chipbreaker (identical to MF version as far as I can tell) and the studs and brass barrel nuts for the knob and tote and the body. So if I can luck upon a MF branded body in good shape for a reasonable price, I'll put the Fulton back together and send it down to TX ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

> LOL, I know Mosquito is all about Keen Kutter, I wasn t trying to tempt him though.
> 
> - adot45


If I were a betting man, I'd wager he already has one or five of em ;-)


----------



## adot45

I'd say you're correct in assuming he has several already, and probably the old ones.


----------



## donwilwol

I made use of a broken Ohio. Another Display. No good planes were harmed in the making.


----------



## Lazyman

A few other recent acquisitions waiting in the queue for cleanup. 2 down a few more to go. Hmm, which one is next.


----------



## HokieKen

That's quite a lineup Nathan. I'd do block planes first if it were me. They're quick and easy and I never seem to have enoigh of them.


----------



## bandit571

2 Random Plane Pictures, from today.."Mutt & Jeff"?








No. 60-1/2 Mutt…









No. 8c "Jeff"

Do saws count?


----------



## corelz125

That gives a little insight of the tapered irons Don


----------



## EricFai

Nice little line up Nathan. Do you sell any of these after you finish with the restoration?


----------



## Lazyman

Eric, I haven't sold any yet but I am going to have to sell some because I don't really have enough room for the users I already have. I think that I may try having sort of a tool sale this fall while my wife does her annual vintage Christmas yard sale where she culls her vintage Christmas decoration collection. I bought most of these because they are versions, styles or brands I have not tried before. There are a couple of Unions, some Sargents and Dunlaps . There is just one Stanley and a MF block that were just too cheap to pass up. Nothing particularly rare, except maybe the Ohio #8 and the 112 scraper I have already cleaned up. These are mostly just new to me.

... Plus, it is just fun to take an old plane and make it functional again and they were all mostly pretty cheap at estate sales. Of that lineup, I think that the average price per plane is maybe $15? I think that the most expensive one was $35.


----------



## EricFai

I am always looking, want to fill out a small collection I've started.


----------



## Mosquito

> That KK knife is really cool looking Dave! I hope you know Mos' is already plotting how he can relieve you of it ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, I know Mosquito is all about Keen Kutter, I wasn t trying to tempt him though.
> 
> - adot45
Click to expand...

Lol I actually don't have any KK pocket knives yet. That's one area I haven't ventured in to so far. I'd be curious to find out how those new ones are though. I've seen that someone bought the rights to the KK name and still makes them, just haven't picked one up yet. I'm more of a single handed pocket clip type pocket knife guy myself


----------



## adot45

Mos
Some info you may or may not have:

Merging with the Shapleigh Hardware Company in 1940, the Keen Kutter® catalog achieved remarkable success through innovative campaigns designed to simplify the job of the retailer & satisfy the customer. The Shapleigh Hardware Company became one of the most extensive corporations of its kind with divisions in Wichita, Sioux City, Ogden, Toledo, New York, Minneapolis & St. Louis.

By the turn of the century, Keen Kutter® warehouse space occupied over 1.5 million square feet & its pocket-knife plant in New York was the largest in the U.S.A.

Today, the Keen Kutter® trademark is owned by the Val-Test Hardware Group of Illinois. After Val-Test acquired the trademark, limited use authorization was developed for a premiere line of Keen Kutter® pocket-knives manufactured by Schrade Cutlery, Frost Cutlery and most recently Bear & Son Cutlery Co. to remain committed to the finest quality made in the U.S.A.

Val-Test would like to express immense gratitude to the legacy of E.C. Simmons & A.F. Shapleigh. Both gentlemen are founders of historically significant companies & greatly responsible for founding the wholesale hardware industry as we know it today.
The above was from the KK website

Ebay, etsy etc. have loads of KK knives of all shapes and sizes, E C Simmons makes their own knives as well. I'm getting kinda interested in these knives so I may have to cut loose some planes…..


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, and it's the Bear and Son knives I was curious about. You can buy them new, in the $100-300 range, but I've only seen one in sock the last few times I've checked.

I looked at a few older ones at the last MWTCA meet, from my regular Keen Kutter hookup, but they were all pretty tired examples


----------



## HokieKen

> … I m more of a single handed pocket clip type pocket knife guy myself
> 
> - Mosquito


Me too. At least until recently. I have a Benchmade clip knife that is my main EDC and a Kershaw Scallion that rotates in when I want something smaller.

But on a trip to the Smokey Mountains back in March, I bought a Swiss Army Knife. I started carrying it when I wanted a knife that I could use to whittle because the "super steels" of my EDCs are just too hard to effectively strop and have a more durable edge rather than a razor-sharp one.

So I carried it for a while. But then I switched back to the Benchmade because the SAK just isn't strong enough for some stuff and I am utterly spoiled to one-handed, spring assisted operation.

But then I would be at a little league game and want to whittle and missed my Swiss Army. I also find I use the saw on the SAK a lot for cutting whittling blanks. And the screwdrivers and bottle opener come in handy more than I would have thought.

So, long-story-short, most days you'll find my Benchmade clip on the outside of my pocket and a SAK nestled down inside. Which bugged me because I don't like over-filled pockets. So I solved that by not carrying keys anymore. I leave them in my truck (has a keypad on the door so I can lock them inside) or my saddlebags if I'm on my bike.

Then I was doing some research on how to replace the SAK blades with carbon steel versions for better edge retention. And I got sucked down a rabbit hole of customized Swiss Army knives. So now I have a dozen or so donors to experiment with. As if I have time for another obsession…


----------



## RWE

In my recent adventure looking at wooden planes in the basement of an Antique shop, I spotted a plane that I just dismissed as being some sort of junk. Now in retrospect, i am wondering what it was exactly.

*It was a jointer sized metal plane, with a the whole body, the front knob, the frog all cast into one solid piece.* No iron was with it and I believe it may have had a screw hole for a tote, or the tote was also cast into the body. Can't remember that detail. At the time it looked like junk and just trouble. Now that have thought about it, not so sure. It is certainly a weird looking plane.

*Has anyone ever seen such a plane and know anything about it? * I dismissed it and did not take a picture.

That plane, another wooden plow, with beams (but no wedges), and a moving fillister may propel me on another trip in that direction.


----------



## donwilwol

Sargent made some of their scrubs all cast. I don't recall ever seeing a jointer.

I have a Fulton and a Dunlap #3 size plane all restored and tuned but missing lever caps. If anyone has a #3 size cap that may work for either or both and willing to trade or barter, let me know.


----------



## HokieKen

Sent you an e-mail Don.


----------



## HokieKen

I've never bothered making a template for a knob before. But, I wanted to make a near exact replica for the MF7 I'm working on. 









Okay, I'm a believer. Not only did I get it almost perfect on the first try. But it was a lot quicker with the template


----------



## EricFai

Templates can be nice to use Kenny. I'll use them at times if I am doing something that is a set.

The knob looks great.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Eric. I would typically just grab a handful of spring calipers and wing it for a plane knob. But I didn't want to take any chances on scrapping any of this Cocobolo.


----------



## donwilwol

I needed a 2 1/8" blade and chip breaker for a Ohio Tools #05 1/4C. Although it's an extremely hard plane to find, this one isn't exactly in collector condition, but man what a jack it makes. Today I decided to make the chip breaker. It has a Stanley blade in it with a Hock on it's way ( he doesn't have a 2 1/8" chip breaker)


----------



## 33706

> I needed a 2 1/8" blade and chip breaker for a Ohio Tools #05 1/4C. Although it s an extremely hard plane to find, this one isn t exactly in collector condition, but man what a jack it makes. Today I decided to make the chip breaker. It has a Stanley blade in it with a Hock on it s way ( he doesn t have a 2 1/8" chip breaker)
> 
> Don W


*Hey Don…would a chipbreaker from a Stanley #27 help? you'd have to relocate the yoke engagement hole but the width is correct. Hmmm, maybe an Ohio #027 equivalent?*


----------



## donwilwol

> I needed a 2 1/8" blade and chip breaker for a Ohio Tools #05 1/4C. Although it s an extremely hard plane to find, this one isn t exactly in collector condition, but man what a jack it makes. Today I decided to make the chip breaker. It has a Stanley blade in it with a Hock on it s way ( he doesn t have a 2 1/8" chip breaker)
> 
> Don W
> 
> *Hey Don…would a chipbreaker from a Stanley #27 help? you d have to relocate the yoke engagement hole but the width is correct. Hmmm, maybe an Ohio #027 equivalent?*
> 
> - poopiekat


I actually two of those. I figured if I was going to the trouble of making a hole, might as well make a whole new chip breaker. I find the heaver metal works better, so win-win.


----------



## controlfreak

Now that I know exactly how to use an American sash plane I need some help with one of mine.








In order to get the bottom depth of the ovalo and rebate to match I will need to add some wood to the plane sole. I noticed that there are some small nail holes on that side of the plane where I assume a repair had been made or a harder wood was used and was later removed. My question is what wood should I seek to add about 1/8" to this plane and how to attach it?


----------



## HokieKen

Well yesterday I was thinking that I needed to blast this block plane due to the chips in the heel. And I thought, hell, I'm gonna try just overspraying first. What's to loose? So I taped up the front half and sprayed a couple of heavy-ish coats over the back end. So far it looks promising. The chips are find-able if you know they're there but they aren't noticable to a less critical gaze 









Of course it's only been 18 hours or so since I sprayed it. I'm hopeful though 

I'm not sure baking the Duplicolor is for me. I screwed up by not scraping this one before baking but I'm not convinced the final cured paint looks as good as leaving it to cure at room temp. Of course Sansoo's work blows the notion that it isn't effective out of the water. But I feel like it would take some experimentation and extra care as far as how thick to coat planes for baking to get it just right. And I am not as meticulous and methodical as Sasoo is with his finishing schedules. I'll continue to experiment with any block planes I do in the future. But I think I'll either stick to what I know, or box them up and ship them to Sansoo when it comes to bench planes ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photos..









prep an edge..









Not too bad, for a Stanley No. 8c?










How many passes does it take, to get down 1/4" depth…









About that many? For ONE groove….hmmm…


----------



## corelz125

I bake it if the manufacturer recommends to bake it.


----------



## Notw

Ken, there is a guy on instagram that powder coats his, they come out looking real good as well


----------



## donwilwol

well, there's another use for broken plane parts. I suppose I should repaint the other two so they match


----------



## corelz125

Bottle openers Don?


----------



## donwilwol

> Bottle openers Don?
> 
> - corelz125


I'll have to try that! They're just drawer pulls


----------



## bandit571

Another Random Plane Photo?









Board was too short to use the Stanley 8c on….

Stanley No. 60-1/2, instead…


----------



## controlfreak

Well here goes nothing!








You can see the nail holes from the previous repair. I planed it down to fresh wood and found a piece of Cocobolo to fill in to bring it back to the proper level. I also took a shoulder plane to refine the registration rebate because I tend to ride out of this crucial reference point.








This leads me to how to attach the added piece. I have no idea how well Cocobolo takes to glue but I am pondering several options. Regular tite-bond or hide glue? Hide may allow for recovery if something goes wrong. Maybe use pins under the piece to keep it from slipping while clamping. This would also allow me to adjust the surface with a hand plane. I guess lastly I could use through nails or recessed screws. Any input is welcome.


----------



## corelz125

I never used one of those planes so dont know how much pressure is used but would double side tape or hot glue hold the piece on?


----------



## RWE

> Well here goes nothing!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the nail holes from the previous repair. I planed it down to fresh wood and found a piece of Cocobolo to fill in to bring it back to the proper level. I also took a shoulder plane to refine the registration rebate because I tend to ride out of this crucial reference point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This leads me to how to attach the added piece. I have no idea how well Cocobolo takes to glue but I am pondering several options. Regular tite-bond or hide glue? Hide may allow for recovery if something goes wrong. Maybe use pins under the piece to keep it from slipping while clamping. This would also allow me to adjust the surface with a hand plane. I guess lastly I could use through nails or recessed screws. Any input is welcome.
> 
> - controlfreak


Looks like we are playing in the same ball field. I got my "Soviet Block" Plow cleaned up. Kevin is helping me on some irons. When I get them and make a new wedge, I will give it a go. A big shout out to Kevin for being so helpful.

I have no idea about Cocobola. I would favor pins in the body that project into the added Cocobola, so you have a clean run of wood with no screws showing. Pins and epoxy.


----------



## Johnny7

> This leads me to how to attach the added piece. I have no idea how well Cocobolo takes to glue but I am pondering several options. Regular tite-bond or hide glue? Hide may allow for recovery if something goes wrong. Maybe use pins under the piece to keep it from slipping while clamping. This would also allow me to adjust the surface with a hand plane. I guess lastly I could use through nails or recessed screws. Any input is welcome.
> 
> - controlfreak


I have used tite-bond or 2 part epoxy on many miles of various tropical hardwoods without failure.

But, I always wipe gluing surfaces down with acetone first to remove the oils which are characteristic of dalbergia and related species.


----------



## controlfreak

Thanks for all the feedback. I may opt for the pin method. I have never used hide glue but hear it can be "undone" with heat. I am nervous that if a future repair is needed (or I screw up) will be difficult if I use epoxy of Tite-bond II. Also does anyone know how well cocobolo wears? It seems fairly dense.

Sorry for all the questions but it is a beautiful plane and I would hate to screw it up. I want a user after me to say "this was a good repair".


----------



## MikeB_UK

It's a fairly specialised plane cf, you aren't going to use it enough to wear down balsa, let alone cocobolo 

I'd be tempted to attach it with recessed brass screws just for the look though.


----------



## Lazyman

Hide glue needs heat AND moisture for the best de-bonding. I have removed veneer using an old clothes iron to press a wet rag against it while slowly slipping a thin putty knife into the joint. It basically reactivates the glue. I have also use a heat gun (my daughter's blow dryer actually) to break apart a PVA glue joint (aka a mistake) in sort of the same fashion but it leaves a messy residue that has to be completely scraped and sanded off afterwards regardless what kind of glue you plan to use for the repair. With hide glue you can sand it or scrub it off with a wet abrasive pad if you want to remove it or if you are going to reglue with hide glue you can just reactivate with water and apply more glue.


----------



## controlfreak

Good stuff there Nathan, time to get some hide glue!


----------



## RWE

Finally got a decent Coffin plane. Made by the Buffalo Tool Company.

Got it sharpened and made some shavings tonight.



























I picked up an unusual one about a year ago. Folks here speculated that it was modified for coopering. Had the bottom sides rabbetted back to expose the sides of the iron.


----------



## ac0rn

+1 Hide Glue


----------



## rad457

Acetone wipe then T.B.III my go to for woods with oil content?

RWE LOL! that reminded me of when we were testing our Krenov planes, Instructor looked at our "shavings" and commented, shavings, that looks like some nice Veneer!


----------



## MikeB_UK

> I picked up an unusual one about a year ago. Folks here speculated that it was modified for coopering. Had the bottom sides rabbetted back to expose the sides of the iron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE


Unless the side is an arc, I'd say it was for panel raising rather than barrel making.


----------



## RWE

> Acetone wipe then T.B.III my go to for woods with oil content?
> 
> RWE LOL! that reminded me of when we were testing our Krenov planes, Instructor looked at our "shavings" and commented, shavings, that looks like some nice Veneer!
> 
> - Andre


Let's just say that it is an art to set the blade depth. I got better after the first veneers were cut. At least the iron was sharp. It was like no shavings on a test pass, then one tap and veneer. Those thick shavings were from the first test passes on the edge of the little walnut board.

I guess I will have to take lighter taps. It is kind of fun using a hammer to set the plane, but to be honest, I had not done it in a while, so I will have to do some more experimenting.

On a side note, I was able to flatten/square the front edge of the very thick iron and create a new bevel with about 30 minutes of work on the CBN wheels. I would put my thumb on the back of the iron where I was pushing it against the CBN and when it got hot enough for me to notice, I would quench it. So that was satisfying. It probably took about 15 minutes on the diamonds to get a burr. Did the Unicorn thing with the lathe buffing wheels. An iron like that would have been hours of diamond work before I changed up to the CBN. Conventional grinder would fry the edges, so you could not get that close to sharp. Coming off the CBN, it was short work because I was able to get a very close to sharp bevel established.

Mike: Panel raising makes sense, but the bottom sides do have the same curvature as the top sides.


----------



## bandit571

Need a T&G joint….which means..









This PITA needs to be set up….after I sharpened the cutter…lot of set up time, just to mill 4 Tongues….then reset to mill the matching grooves…..just to make a corner glue joint…


----------



## drsurfrat

One thing I have found successful is to clean the cocobolo (rosewood) with acetone before epoxying it. Rosewoods are oily, so they end to resist gluing up well. I have not tried other glues.


----------



## controlfreak

> One thing I have found successful is to clean the cocobolo (rosewood) with acetone before epoxying it. Rosewoods are oily, so they end to resist gluing up well. I have not tried other glues.
> 
> - drsurfrat


I ended up gluing the fresh planed surface of each so the oils were not too bad…we'll see.


----------



## RWE

Thanks to Kevin I now have some irons for my "Commie" Soviet Block Plow. I will have to fashion one or more wedges to work with irons. My plane has an inch or more width on the opening and these irons are just over .5 inches. So the plan is to make a wedge that has a groove in the bottom (per Mike's suggestion) to keep the irons aligned.










This Commie plow is ill behaved. It keeps trying to knock the Narex chisels off of their hangers.










Once I get the irons done, I will try to make shavings and not veneer.


----------



## theoldfart

RWE, there's a good mix of British brands in that group.
One possibility is to have someone with a mill and and the skill set to make them uniform in width.


----------



## RWE

I have had a crazy work day and have not measured them yet. I do have a friend that has a milling machine. I will probably make a wedge for the narrower ones and if making the wedge is not too difficult, just make a second. If it is problematic to make the wedge, then I will get the wider ones milled to the same width and use one wedge. Should be a fun project. Block planes, knife walls, dovetail saws and such to make the wedge.

I have a busted up wooden fore plane that I kept so I would have some beech wood to use for such things. it is about 1/3 gone, but there is plenty to make some wedges.


----------



## bandit571

"We have work to do.." 









Not too sure about that fifty cent block plane….

$1 screwdriver ( needs bits)









Might clean up decently…Millers Falls No. 67…Hammer head will need a handle….as well as the firmer chisel…

Will wait and see about that brace…spent $3 for all of this Rusty & Krusty….

Which plane maker used that sort of knob on their block planes?


----------



## controlfreak

I have some wooden screws on my sash plane that when the wood nuts were removed seem a bit dry with a few damaged threads. What should I use to care for them, paste wax or BLO ?


----------



## Lazyman

I would be worried that BLO might gum up the threads.


----------



## theoldfart

CF, a good paste wax applied with 0000 bronze wool.

It's how I do all of my old wooden screws including clamps, bench vise and fenced planes.

You could substitute 0000 scotch bright for the bronze wool.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> I have some wooden screws on my sash plane that when the wood nuts were removed seem a bit dry with a few damaged threads. What should I use to care for them, paste wax or BLO ?
> 
> - controlfreak


paste wax, walnut oil, nivea moisturising cream, bacon lard, whatever - actually, any kind of animal fattty greasy type of stuff is really, really good - but if it sems dry, pretty much anything will work, if something gums up, run it back and forth a bit, or use a card scraper in extreme cases.

Basically, don't overthink it


----------



## controlfreak

All good ideas. I have been using paste wax on my lake Erie vise screw and while it works it seems to kind of dry out over time. I may try it again with the bronze wool to see if it lasts longer.

Bacon lard is interesting too but I will need to stop adding it to my eggs to acquire some stock first.


----------



## donwilwol

https://www.lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/41460

Take a look!


----------



## KentInOttawa

I was doing a little bit of detail work today. I had some REALLY small pieces that needed to be trimmed. I started with the 60 1/2 set very, very fine.










Later, when I had some even smaller pieces that need more taken off, I actually switched to my #4.



















I think that these are the smallest curls that I've ever made.










I'm sneaking up on a tight fit, so the fine set is a requirement.


----------



## ac0rn

I someone making a birdhouse?


----------



## corelz125

Kent you need a stanley #101 or thumb plane. I have a set of the veritas minis.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I someone making a birdhouse?
> 
> - Jeff


What you are seeing is a maple leaf being assembled as part of an award that a friend asked me to build. That hole is part of a clamping jig so that I can hold such fiddly little bits in place while working on fitting another. Here's an earlier picture of some layout and template pieces.












> Kent you need a stanley #101 or thumb plane. I have a set of the veritas minis.
> 
> - corelz125


I have an unopened and unsharpened 12-101, a sharp Kunz (Lee Valley) green squirrel tail thumb plane, an unrestored and dull #2 plus a whole fleet of #3s that would also be better choices. I also have a time crunch, bad eyes and a long list of excuses that I haven't even broken in yet, so these planes are what I'm using today. It seems that sharp enough and in reach are sufficient. Given the size of the pieces, I've been wearing a headband magnifier and only taking one to two shavings at a time.


----------



## DevinT

> I have some wooden screws on my sash plane that when the wood nuts were removed seem a bit dry with a few damaged threads. What should I use to care for them, paste wax or BLO ?
> 
> - controlfreak
> 
> paste wax, walnut oil, nivea moisturising cream, bacon lard, whatever - actually, any kind of animal fattty greasy type of stuff is really, really good - but if it sems dry, pretty much anything will work, if something gums up, run it back and forth a bit, or use a card scraper in extreme cases.
> 
> Basically, don t overthink it
> 
> - MikeB_UK


Beef tallow


----------



## corelz125

Ok so you're using the same system as a few of us use. Grab what ever plane is sharp.


----------



## drsurfrat

+1 corelz, yep.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Ok so you re using the same system as a few of us use. Grab what ever plane is sharp.
> 
> - corelz125


Pretty much, yeah.


----------



## bandit571

Ok…no name stamped into the iron on that Block Plane…no numbers, anywhere…Funny looking front knob with a bolt….Cap iron is/was RED, as is the wheel. 









"Japanning" looks like a dark blue. However, on the rear deck, there are two names…

PRUTTON…and ..CLEVE. OHIO

Hmmmm. Pedestal to hold the iron up, looks like one could drill the required holes, and turn this into a #220.

Ramp behind the mouth opening is huge, almost 1/2" long. Ridge in front of the mouth opening is triangle shaped.
Base is 7" long, by 2-1/8" wide..

Will have to research Prutton of Cleveland, OH….might be a hardware chain?


----------



## bandit571

Little research…seems to be related to something called DHP?


----------



## HokieKen

The Gramercy handle maker's rasp is still on my want list. But this Corradi Sculptor's rasp is an excellent tool for shaping totes.









I do wish thay made one slightly smaller though for getting into the tighter curves. And I rarely use the coarse end and the handle can lead to crampy-hand during long sessions. So I'm considering whacking the coarse end off and grinding the center section down and making a handle for it.

Of course as soon as I do, I'll need the coarse end…


----------



## RichT

> Of course as soon as I do, I'll need the coarse end…
> 
> - HokieKen


You'll eventually need the coarse, of course. (Now I have the Mr. Ed theme song stuck in my head).


----------



## MikeB_UK

> The Gramercy handle maker's rasp is still on my want list. But this Corradi Sculptor's rasp is an excellent tool for shaping totes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do wish thay made one slightly smaller though for getting into the tighter curves. And I rarely use the coarse end and the handle can lead to crampy-hand during long sessions. So I'm considering whacking the coarse end off and grinding the center section down and making a handle for it.
> 
> Of course as soon as I do, I'll need the coarse end…
> 
> - HokieKen


Corradi also make rifflers - ideal for getting into those tight spaces (other riffler rasps are available  )


----------



## controlfreak

Well I guess CA glue was the right call on my sash plane. I came up about an 1/8" short of where I needed to be and popped off that piece and made sure I nailed it on the second try. The sash plane is sharp and dialed in now and is ready foe another window build. Got to decide what wood to use after a quick trip next week. Happy is when things go together!


----------



## DanKrager

Hokie, Ivandea.

If you slit the handle of your double ended file on the diagonal, you'd have two files with a tang each for the new wooden handle. A little heat would straighten it to CL if you have OCD, but a hot tang in an undersize hole would work just fine too.

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

Sometimes it just takes someone with a little common sense to make me realize how dumb I am. Thanks Dan ;-)


----------



## terryR

I may have a plane problem. I quit eBay 5 years ago, but just joined again.










H Slater Rebate Plane. I intend to copy it. Yeah.










^and Miter plane No.4 (for this year) is done and sharp.


----------



## sansoo22

While not even as remotely kick ass as Terry's miter plane…I did recently finish this setup with the proceeds from the last 4 planes I restored.










I'm not a fan of the Peachtree tool rest on the left tho. The lower set of arms don't pivot which keeps the rest from getting as close to the wheel as I like. The right side is the TayTools version which is on backorder right now…but when its available I will pick another one up.

The 80 grit wheel on the left is no joke…it flings tiny hot shrapnel around. I will need to put a hook on this flip cart to keep my face shield close by. On the plus side it put a 20 deg primary bevel on a 3/16" thick iron in under 10 minutes with no heat issues.


----------



## corelz125

Terry when you think you finally get out they pull you back in. That's going to be a nice one making that rebate plane


----------



## DevinT

Very nice, Terry!

Off to bed.


----------



## HokieKen

Lotta sexy in that post TR!

Nice grinder setup Sansoo. I don't have CBN on my grinder but I have them on my Worksharp and I'm amazed at how cool they run. And I have that Peachtree rest too and have never totally loved it either. It's awkward to get set just right and doesn't lock down tight enough if you're really leaning into something. And the aluminum guide sliding in the aluminum slot is just north of worthless. If that's something you're using, I found that some teflon tape on the front/back of the guide helps a lot with the sliding as well as tightening up the fit. Hopefully the TT version will serve you better. You've also got a great rig for sharpening turning tools now too


----------



## Lazyman

Have any of you ever used one of the Kodiak tool rests? They are targeted for turners but appear to be good for other types of tools too. They also have one that allows you to use Tormek jigs on a bench grinder.


----------



## RWE

> Have any of you ever used one of the Kodiak tool rests? They are targeted for turners but appear to be good for other types of tools too. They also have one that allows you to use Tormek jigs on a bench grinder.
> 
> - Lazyman


I have a friend that has the full system. He turns a lot. As a turner, if you embrace the presets, it means that all of your tools may have to tweaked a bit from what you had done by hand. if you are a hardcore type that liked this or that little nuance in your grind, then you might get a bit frustrated.

I adapted my Wolverine table to accept the sliding jigs that go in the Kodiak table and they are great for skews. I highly recommend those.

I would like the Kodiak table with the preset locking positions. However I get by with the Wolverine table that I modified and a digital angle gauge to set it.


----------



## sansoo22

For your viewing pleasure some before and after shots of a pretty terrible looking KK5. I love how the rear tote came out. I don't know why but on the KK/Ohio planes I really like the look of the dark knob and light tote.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Picture…from this morning..








Stanley No. 8c
Have 6 panels that need to be flat…just so another plane can bevel the edges to make a raised panel..









Millers Falls No. 9, Type 4


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Sansoo, your planes come out so nice it makes me not want to work on mine anymore lol. Another beautiful job!


----------



## bandit571

More pictures of planes getting put to work..









Sole on that No. 9, T-4 is quite shiny..









That is the #78's reflection showing up….









Too many planes?









Nah….


----------



## HokieKen

Beautiful as always Sansoo  The un-matched tote and knob tickles my OCD but you made both of em look nice!

Nicely done Bandit. Raising panels with a smoother takes some skill.


----------



## HokieKen

I've been working a bit on my Millers Falls #7/Fulton 3708 hybrid. And I've discovered that MF did cut some corners on the Fulton branded planes. The #7 frog I have is machined as expected but the plane body is not. The pads just behind the mouth are milled but the top pad where the back of the frog sits is not. Both the machined and non-machined surfaces were enameled. But when I sandblasted the paint off, I found the top pad is just as-cast including a cast-in "800." So I was concerned that the MF-branded frog wouldn't fit but a quick investigation found it's pretty close. I'll need to file/scrap a bit of a high spot on the upper surface to remove a little wobble but otherwise it sits pretty solid and the bed of the frog aligns pretty well with the ramp at the back of the mouth. Casting wise I can't see any other difference. I know on a lot of the re-branded planes they made for Craftsman/Dunlap/Fulton they left the frog adjusting parts/machining out but the #7 didn't have a frog adjuster any way. So with the exception of a single surface not being machined and not masking the frog mating surfaces before painting, it seems that the MF7 and Fulton 3708 are proper twins


----------



## sansoo22

Type 18 #5-1/4 going back to work!



















This will be the last one for quite awhile. I need to switch gears and get my drilled pressed restored which includes a cabinet/stand for it. And then I think I will start work on my miter saw station. Actually use my wood shop for projects made of wood.


----------



## donwilwol

are you planning plywood?


----------



## HokieKen

Who can afford plywood?!


----------



## EricFai

Prices are coming down, just a tad.


----------



## sansoo22

> are you planning plywood?
> 
> - Don W


It does kind of look like plywood but nope its just some scrap 1×8 clear white pine. Not sure why but I really like it for testing planes. Maybe its because if you're not sharp + tuned and try to take tissue paper shavings they will turn to dust.



> Who can afford plywood?!
> 
> - HokieKen


I've got enough ply to do the drill press cabinet and the base of my miter saw station. Might have to sell a kidney to afford the upper cabinets.


----------



## HokieKen

I used to get Maple veneer ply at my local Lowes for $49 a sheet. It was a hair over $100/sheet at the highest I noticed. It's down to $98 now. So it's at least going the right direction.


----------



## HokieKen

> I ve got enough ply to do the drill press cabinet and the base of my miter saw station. Might have to sell a kidney to afford the upper cabinets.
> 
> - sansoo22


That's what the second one is for.


----------



## Notw

Sansoo what finish are you using on your knobs and totes?


----------



## bandit571

Name that plane?









Cleaning a rebate..









Almost done..









Flattened…
Fine tune a bevel..









May have to return a plane to it's case…later..









Busy morning?


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Name that plane?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bandit571


I'll play.

From the front…

Stanley 78 (or variant) 
Stanley 60 1/2 (or similar) 
Stanley 45 (or variant) 
Stanley 80 
Stanley 71 router 
Jack and his other brother, Jack

How did I do? What is that down in front of the bench?


----------



## Mosquito

> That KK knife is really cool looking Dave! I hope you know Mos' is already plotting how he can relieve you of it ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


As it turns out, it was Kenny who was plotting lol


----------



## bandit571

1. Ward's (Stanley) #78
2. Stanley #60-1/2
3. Stanley 45 T-20
4. Stanley #80
5. Stanley 70-1/2 router plane
6. Millers Falls # 9, Type 4
7, Craftsman ( Millers Falls) 14" Jack plane…

On the shelf below? Stanley No. 8c

Also on the bench…2" wide Blue Grass ( Stanley No. 60?) chisel. Hyper Tough Mallet.

May have to start and put away some of these tools…?


----------



## HokieKen

> Lol I actually don t have any KK pocket knives yet. That s one area I haven t ventured in to so far….
> 
> - Mosquito


Well, we couldn't have that crap! I think Dave replaced that one with a 2-blade KK so maybe he can tempt you inside now that the door is open ;-)


----------



## MikeB_UK

Not sure, the name Keen Kutter as a pocket knife sounds a bit serial killer-ey


----------



## RWE

It is like Christmas in June here. I first got a bunch of Woodies a few weeks ago, including a plow, a round, a couple of skewed rabbets and a coffin. Yesterday, I got a Siegley Knuckle block in need of some attention and another wooden plow from Don W.

I had done a swap with the honorable and esteemed Sansoo so the beautiful KK5 he showed this week is now in my shop. Also the Junior Jack. Absolutely fine work by Sansoo. They look better in person than in the pictures.

By happenstance, I stumbled over a KK4 (extremely rare to see such an old and somewhat rare plane in the Southeast) and I am in process of trying to make it match the KK5. Fat chance, but we shall see.

I sent Mos an email telling him that I was chasing him on the KK plane thing. 2 down and 4 to go.

Can't wait to try out the Junior Jack 5 1/4 and see what it is about. Looks like a handy size.

I think I will have to modify my current plane cabinet and I will probably build a second one to house the main users.

And yes, I do clean off the table saw top periodically. Just not for this picture.


----------



## adot45

> Well, we couldn t have that crap! I think Dave replaced that one with a 2-blade KK so maybe he can tempt you inside now that the door is open ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Yep, I picked up a 2 blade with the same Rosewood scales that was made in 2006. It's the same size as yours but no spiffy KK logo button on the scale.


----------



## MikeB_UK

And, just to wind Devin up now she's got all the bits for the kerfing saw.

The Quangsheng 43 is back in stock.
It's bloody small, even compared to a drawer bottom plane.

I'll have a play when I have a bit of free time and see how well it works.


----------



## corelz125

Good looking planes you received RWE. I like your style don't restrict yourself to one brand try them all out. Have a K8 or KK8 yet?


----------



## 33706

> I think I will have to modify my current plane cabinet and I will probably build a second one to house the main users.
> 
> And yes, I do clean off the table saw top periodically. Just not for this picture.
> 
> - RWE


I leave a layer of dust on my table saws ALL the time. It provides a protective layer to prevent damaging the cutters of the planes and chisels that I set on it. And the top of the saw is protected as well.


----------



## RWE

> Good looking planes you received RWE. I like your style don t restrict yourself to one brand try them all out. Have a K8 or KK8 yet?
> 
> - corelz125


I bought an early flatrock 608 probably a decade ago. I liked it so much, that I attempted to round out a Bedrock group. I stumbled over a K4 a few years back and got it for a good price. At the time, I did not know what it was but I remembered Mos talking about Keen Kutter planes, so I grabbed it up. In my mind, not being a purist, it is a Bedrock. So I now have K3, K4, 605, 607 (JayT purged his Bedrocks a year or two back and I got the 607 from him with custom lumber) and the 608. For the #6 size I have an type 11 Stanley. Anybody with a spare 606 or K6 private message me.

Along the the way, I stumbled over a Sargent VBM Jack and started liking Sargents. I got a Winchester #3 made by Sargent from Don W. I had for a long time a Craftsman Jack that was one of my favorites and as I grew more familiar with the whole plane universe, I realized it was a Sargent.

So if I run into an "interesting" plane, I grab it up. Down in my area of the country, there are not a lot of interesting planes, but I have been antiquing for quite a while now so I have found a few. I liked the earlier Stanleys and have a good group of those, particularly the 4's and 5's.

The KK5 from Sansoo is impressive to look at and to use, so I hope the KK4 I am working on will be a good user as well.

Recently I got a Union #6 and I have a Lakeside #3 which is a Union made plane.

I keep thinking of thinning the herd and doing the Ebay thing with some of them. May do that at some point, but for now I going to expand my storage cabinets. LOL

Got some full length and full width 1.5 inch shavings with KK5 tonight.


----------



## RWE

Here is a topic I would like to see discussed. I have all of my planes set with 25 degree bevel. I use an MKII sharpening jig on diamonds for the final edge and do the green compound Unicorn thing.

The planes from Sansoo had a very narrow back bevel. I only do totally flat 25 degree primary and sometimes the first setting on the MKII (think that adds 2.5 degrees, so 27.5 ) for a secondary bevel. I do this when I can't raise the burr because I am hitting the whole bevel.

So I emailed him and he stated that he does the ruler trick on all of his personal planes and creates a very fine and narrow back bevel. He also stated that how you sharpen is a "religious" topic and not to be discussed because tempers will flare and feelings will be hurt. Actually he said it was a "religious" thing and he let his customers do their own irons.

Who does a back bevel? I am going to try it because I was getting some great shavings with one.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I have worked pretty hard to free hand sharpen this last year and I found doing the ruler trick for a back bevel is worth the effort.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Freehand here - no backbevel.
Although I may give it a go at some point.


----------



## controlfreak

I moved to free hand here, makes touch ups very quick. I often just visit the strop too.


----------



## donwilwol

Hollow grind and freehand for me. Just like I show in my book. To me, it's better than a back bevel (I actually hate the back bevel idea and only use it if the blade is pitted past flattening)

Hollow grinding makes free handing for beginners easier.

The ruler trick does eliminate the need to flat the back, but it makes pulling the burr more of an art.

Bottom line, the best system is the one that works for you.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't like back bevels because they can interfere with a really finely set chipbreaker. But, like Don said, if you can't get the back flattened for some reason, they're a lifesaver. I use my Worksharp for plane irons so I go with a single flat bevel at 25 degrees. When I sharpened on stones, I used a jig and sometimes used a small secondary bevel to save time.


----------



## HokieKen

> … He also stated that how you sharpen is a "religious" topic and not to be discussed because tempers will flare and feelings will be hurt…
> 
> - RWE


He only said that because he does it wrong. If he would get a Worksharp and do it the right way he would see the light and want to spread it to the masses! ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY WORKSHARP!


----------



## RWE

> … He also stated that how you sharpen is a "religious" topic and not to be discussed because tempers will flare and feelings will be hurt…
> 
> - RWE
> He only said that because he does it wrong. If he would get a Worksharp and do it the right way he would see the light and want to spread it to the masses! ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY WORKSHARP!
> - HokieKen


I made up the tempers would flare part. The Great Sansoo did state that "If he had a Worksharp with a CBN wheel like Hokie, he would do that technique."


----------



## RWE

> Hollow grind and freehand for me. Just like I show in my book. To me, it s better than a back bevel (I actually hate the back bevel idea and only use it if the blade is pitted past flattening)
> 
> Hollow grinding makes free handing for beginners easier.
> 
> The ruler trick does eliminate the need to flat the back, but it makes pulling the burr more of an art.
> 
> Bottom line, the best system is the one that works for you.
> 
> - Don W


I have always been afraid that I would just mess up an edge if I freehand it. Might give it a try, but I do like the MKII. I have seen it described as "fussy" but to my mind it deals with all the issues: repeatability, secondary bevels if necessary, 90 degrees square alignment etc.

If I had a Worksharp with CBN, I would use it too. However i am locked in with the CBN wheels on my slow speed grinder and no more room on the secondary bench.

I salute all of you freehanders!!


----------



## rad457

Hand power grinder for Hollow grind(White Cool wheels), 1000 then 8000-1000 Water Stones. Usually mirror polish about an inch on the backs, touch ups are a few strokes on the 8000 W.S. with a couple strokes with pressure on either side to micro chamfer. Most users are PMV-11 so sharpening and touch ups are seldom
Only use the Arkansas Oil stones for the Bedrock #604 over a sense of Historical accuracy!


----------



## bandit571

Careful….there is a Danger…of this becoming a J.A.S.T.

Just
Another
Sharpening
Thread

I have my own way…leave it at that…..seemed to work very well on the Ash, and Maple I have been working on, lately…









Tissue thin shavings might look very nice, and all…..takes way too long to get any work done…


----------



## corelz125

I can't free hand I end up all over the place with the bevel. That's why I bought a worksharp.


----------



## controlfreak

I need to build a rig for my worksharp, one that has a platform for a guide. It puzzles me as to why they stopped making the bar for the top. I don't do plane irons on it because I fear I will get out of control but I will batch out all my chisels


----------



## Mosquito

> Not sure, the name Keen Kutter as a pocket knife sounds a bit serial killer-ey
> 
> - MikeBUK


Lol you are not wrong there



> And, just to wind Devin up now she s got all the bits for the kerfing saw.
> 
> The Quangsheng 43 is back in stock.
> It s bloody small, even compared to a drawer bottom plane.
> 
> I ll have a play when I have a bit of free time and see how well it works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - MikeBUK


Very nice! I tried to buy one last fall when I found some in stock, but then once it got all the way to final checkout button it finally said they couldn't ship to US… Darn. They're only slightly larger than a Record 043 aren't they?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Mos, you can buy it on AliExpress

You're welcome. ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Sand, sand, sand, sand, wet sand, shellac, shellac, shellac, wet sand, wet san, wet sand, poly, poly, wet sand.









Now some more poly and some more wet sanding…. I'll stop when they look like Sansoo's!


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos, you can buy it on AliExpress
> 
> You're welcome. ;-)
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


I know, I saw that one when I was looking last fall too. There's no indications at all that that one comes with the kerfing saw kit though, and I know how long it would probably take me to make one…


----------



## rad457

Dang, dem are SEXY! (Best Southern Accent)


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Very nice! I tried to buy one last fall when I found some in stock, but then once it got all the way to final checkout button it finally said they couldn t ship to US… Darn. They re only slightly larger than a Record 043 aren t they?
> 
> - Mosquito


The handle is a bit bigger, but other than that, Pretty similar size.

Like Dave said, Ali-Express will sell you one, as will Rutlands and a few others, but, as far as I know, Workshop Heaven is the only one that includes the kerfing saw and imperial irons - and they won't sell to US because of the manufacturers deal with Wood River (I assume Wood River don't do the 43)


----------



## EricFai

Wow Kenny, beautiful.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I already have a couple kerfing saw / planes, so that wasn't a big draw for me. As for the imperial vs. metric irons, if it really bothers me, I suspect I can make some drawings and send a chunk of O-1 to my buddy in 'Tonka and he could knock them out on his mill for me. Then I could heat treat them and TA-DA!

Or I could just use the 6mm one to make grooves for quarter-inch panels and take a swipe or two down the edge with a block plane like I usually have to do even with a "real" quarter inch iron. Or grind the 9mm one down to 7mm to make a "fat quarter" iron, which is probably most useful for me.


----------



## MikeB_UK

I agree on the imperial & metric - waste of time for me, they are near enough identical and I tend to size the wood to fit the groove I can make anyway.
TBH I've got to the point where I don't need a kerfing plane either, but I was cutting some drawer slides the other day and figured a kerfing saw would be ideal for them.

Ah, hell, OK, new toy that I don't really need


----------



## MikeB_UK

I'll put it next to the 45c that I've also never used.


----------



## sansoo22

> He only said that because he does it wrong. If he would get a Worksharp and do it the right way he would see the light and want to spread it to the masses! ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY WORKSHARP!
> 
> - HokieKen


Worksharp with CBN discs is on the list right after a 6×80 edge sander. Need to restore and sell a handful more planes and will have enough stashed away for the edge sander. The number of 6 thru 8 size planes I have in the queue is starting to add up and I really don't want to lap those bastards by hand. The edge sander will take some practice but that's why I kept a handful of broken plane bodies around for.

For RWEs KK5 I put the back bevel on it because it was pitted. Choices were back bevel or grind an 1/8" off the iron. I personally like the back bevel and add it to all my irons but I've been practicing with it long enough taking the burr off is no issue for me anymore. I also like the back bevel for the unicorn method…you can be off by a degree or two on the back side and it wont hurt anything.

For planes I'm restoring and selling/trading I only do a back bevel due to pitting and wanting to save the length of the iron.


----------



## Mosquito

> Very nice! I tried to buy one last fall when I found some in stock, but then once it got all the way to final checkout button it finally said they couldn t ship to US… Darn. They re only slightly larger than a Record 043 aren t they?
> 
> - Mosquito
> 
> The handle is a bit bigger, but other than that, Pretty similar size.
> 
> Like Dave said, Ali-Express will sell you one, as will Rutlands and a few others, but, as far as I know, Workshop Heaven is the only one that includes the kerfing saw and imperial irons - and they won t sell to US because of the manufacturers deal with Wood River (I assume Wood River don t do the 43)
> 
> - MikeB_UK


Yeah, and that was the issue lol. I'm not too worried about the imperial vs metric thing either. We don't make our plywood actual 1/4" anyway lol. Like Dave said, if I'm making solid panels they're usually raised panels, and I can just make them fit anyway


----------



## ac0rn

I just posted https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/318207
If anyone in this group is interested send a pm. Charity of your choice, maybe pay shipping.


----------



## bandit571

Afternoon of tool rehabs…this little fellow got cleaned up..Japanning is Stanley Blue, Red Cap and wheel, little round ball of a front knob, with a slotted, steel bolt. 









Sole is flat enough for a block plane…had quite a backlog to clean up..


----------



## Mosquito

For those that didn't follow the back and forth, the Keen Kutter pocket knife I posted was sent to me by Kenny. Today at I was collapsing the USPS mailing box to recycle, I noticed he had left a note for me too lol (it was on the lid, but I normally open the ends, so didn't notice it right away)










(this after my comment about not having one and I haven't gone down that road yet)


----------



## DanKrager

Good one, Ken.

DanK


----------



## Johnny7

Kenny is the Will Rogers of Woodworking.


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny is the Will Rogers of Woodworking.
> 
> - Johnny7


I guess that's a compliment? ;-) Coming from you, I'm sure it is. I don't know much about the character of Will Rogers but I do know he was a witty fella. Ranks up there with Mark Twain and Jean Shepard in terms of being brilliantly quotable.

One of my favorites: "There are two theories to arguing with a woman. Neither works."


----------



## HokieKen

I posted a pic of the Cocobolo tote and knob I've been working on last Saturday. After I posted, I put a coat of poly on them and set them aside to cure. They're STILL tacky. Ugh. I hate summer humidity :-(


----------



## Johnny7

> I guess that's a compliment? ;-) Coming from you, I'm sure it is.
> 
> - HokieKen


It was indeed intended as such.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks J7 ;-p

A package was on my porch yesterday. It was addressed to my wife but the return address was Tools For Working Wood in Brooklyn NY. The only thing on my wishlist from that store is the Gramercy handle maker's rasp. So I guess I know what I'm getting for father's day


----------



## Mosquito

haha, I had a box from them show up on Monday, though I knew what was in it, and It was from myself, so I guess the mystery might still be alive for me


----------



## RichT

> A package was on my porch yesterday. It was addressed to my wife but the return address was Tools For Working Wood in Brooklyn NY. The only thing on my wishlist from that store is the Gramercy handle maker s rasp. So I guess I know what I m getting for father s day
> 
> - HokieKen


You won't believe how awesome it is. I bought a Liogier 6" 14 grain modeller's rasp a while back. Stupid expensive, but worth every penny. I have several Iwasaki and Nicholson rasps that are excellent, but not even close to being in the same league as the Liogier.


----------



## Lazyman

> Kenny is the Will Rogers of Woodworking.
> 
> - Johnny7
> 
> I guess that's a compliment? ;-) Coming from you, I'm sure it is. I don't know much about the character of Will Rogers but I do know he was a witty fella. Ranks up there with Mark Twain and Jean Shepard in terms of being brilliantly quotable.
> 
> One of my favorites: "There are two theories to arguing with a woman. Neither works."
> 
> - HokieKen


Kenny never met a hand plane he didn't like unless there was a Millers Falls equivalent.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> You won t believe how awesome it is. I bought a Liogier 6" 14 grain modeller s rasp a while back. Stupid expensive, but worth every penny. I have several Iwasaki and Nicholson rasps that are excellent, but not even close to being in the same league as the Liogier.
> 
> - Rich


I am envious. I bought some of the cheaper hand-cut, Czech-made rasps from Lee Valley. They are so much nicer than any of my machine-cut rasps. I only wish it was in my budget to get (many) more hand-cut rasps, especially some of the French-made ones.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> A package was on my porch yesterday. It was addressed to my wife but the return address was Tools For Working Wood in Brooklyn NY. The only thing on my wishlist from that store is the Gramercy handle maker s rasp. So I guess I know what I m getting for father s day
> 
> - HokieKen


They're terrific tools, congrats Kenny!


----------



## theoldfart

I'll second Smitty's statement.

Have both the corse and fine versions, make handle making and most other curved work easier.


----------



## bandit571

Something for Kenny to drool over…









No.1816…..with a rehabbed saw..









Needed to miter a few cleats, tonight









Glue only, no metal fasteners used…


----------



## EricFai

Nothing wrong with using no fastners in a project, well done Bandit.


----------



## sansoo22

This type 15 #5-1/4 junior jack is one of my favorite planes in the till. Doing a little test run as I prep for a new shop cabinet. I think I got it sharp enough.



















I really love this smaller nimble size for squaring up the corners of frame and panel cabinets. Its far less of a mess and usually faster than breaking out the trim router. I only have one trim router so it usually doesn't have the bit I need in it which makes reaching for the plane which requires to setup faster for me.


----------



## ac0rn

Sweet.


----------



## HokieKen

Knowing the Handle Maker's Rasp is imminent is spurring me to go ahead and get totes drilled and roughed out for a couple more of my planes. Some of those planes need brass barrel nuts and studs made/bought to replace the steel bolts Millers Falls used during the war so I started taking inventory.

Which led a little further down the hole… Several of my planes got "functional" overhauls on acquisition (flattened the sole, checked/fixed frog fit, flatten the iron, fit the chipbreaker) but never got any cosmetic attention like painting or polishing. So I decided I want a till full of nothing but sexy.

So I disassembled and brought three plane bodies to work with me today to sandblast. My 9, 10 and 15. I've contacted Sansoo about doing the bodies for me and in the meantime I'll be making new totes and knobs and brass hardware.

So all you Stanley fellas stay tuned over the next few months. I'll show y'all what real planes look like ;-) *Let the rotten veggies fly!*


----------



## HokieKen

Sansoo - I love seeing the planes you rehab and the evident skill that goes into them. But it's even better to see that you know how to use them when you're done


----------



## adot45

The brass will look super next to your knob and tote…a small detail but huge improvement in the "sexy".


----------



## HokieKen




----------



## KelleyCrafts

Wry nice. I wish I had access to a legit sandblaster.


----------



## sansoo22

> Sansoo - I love seeing the planes you rehab and the evident skill that goes into them. But it s even better to see that you know how to use them when you re done
> 
> - HokieKen


Thank you Kenny. Knowing how to use them is something I thought you had to know in order to call yourself a restorer. I found out on Reddit that is not remotely close to true. I was making my case that I think new hand plane users should buy a restored plane for their first one or two so they know how a good plane works before jumping into rust hunting. Then Reddit went full Reddit on me for that suggestion. Apparently a lot of folks have been burned following that advice because a lot of pretty planes on ebay don't actually work that well. Every plane I've ever listed is accompanied by images of it doing what its meant to do. What's funny about the Reddit argument is I sold 8 or 9 planes to people who messaged me privately and picked up a couple restore commissions.



> So all you Stanley fellas stay tuned over the next few months. I ll show y all what real planes look like ;-) *Let the rotten veggies fly!*
> 
> - HokieKen


I may have to sneak in one or two of my own Miller Falls planes when I work the bodies for yours. See if I'm up to the challenge of making MF planes pretty.


----------



## HokieKen

It's pretty much the same as any other plane. You just need a second color of paint ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Laying down on the job?


----------



## Lazyman

Fortunately on my MF planes, the paint was all in excellent shape so it was mostly just cleaning the rust off of the bare metal.


----------



## RWE

> Wry nice. I wish I had access to a legit sandblaster.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


I moved up from the gutter to the first rung on the ladder last month. I had a home made (modified plywood chest with gloves and plexiglass window) blasting cabinet. It worked well the first time I used it, then moisture in my hose and visibility finally got me pushed over the brink to upgrade.

Got the benchtop Harbor Freight cabinet, two magnetic lights for inside the cabinet. I put a HF water filter on the air compressor connection. I had one of those Home Depot orange cyclone things for a five gallon bucket and hooked it in line with the shop vacuum.

I am refurbing several planes and will give it a good test soon. I have a friend that I split the cost with. Eventually it will be housed in his shop.

So far so good. I have gone from bottom feeder to first rung of the ladder.


----------



## RWE

I can't remember yesterday but I remember watching Bill Anderson in a series of videos on Wooden Planes that was part to the online library on the bump up Popular Woodworking video library. That was probably over a decade ago.

The video that fascinated me the most was one about a moving fillister. I loved the look of that plane. His video is on YouTube now.

So, I stumbled over one in the Antique store basement where I picked up a wooden plow and other wooden planes a few weeks back. It did not have the depth stop, so I passed on it. I reached out the Don W. about a depth stop and it turns out he had moving filister to spare.

I am now a happy camper. I will be tuning and playing with this fellow after a decade of wanting one.

Bill is a great presenter and knows what there is to know about the wooden planes.


----------



## Hammerthumb

> - HokieKen


Kenny - this is supposed to be a family friendly site. What up with the nude pictures?


----------



## HokieKen

It's fine Paul. I was nude when I took it so it cancels out.


----------



## Lazyman

I think that you should polish and buff them (also in the buff) to a high shine and spray with a clear lacquer. Start a new trend.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Not too high a shine - we definitely don't want a mirror polish on these right now.


----------



## controlfreak

> It s pretty much the same as any other plane. You just need a second color of paint ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Do they make red engine paint?


----------



## donwilwol

If there are any wooden planes any of you might be looking for, now is the time to let me know. I'm on a mission to rid my shop of them. They're going on ebay, unless I find homes for them before.


----------



## controlfreak

> If there are any wooden planes any of you might be looking for, now is the time to let me know. I m on a mission to rid my shop of them. They re going on ebay, unless I find homes for them before.
> 
> - Don W


I am always in the market, whatcha got?


----------



## HokieKen

> It s pretty much the same as any other plane. You just need a second color of paint ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> Do they make red engine paint?
> 
> - controlfreak


Yep. Duplicolor has red. I think it's called Ford Sunrise Red but not positive.


----------



## bandit571

Now he tells….









16" long Jack plane….2-1/4" wide iron…missing the bolt between it and the chipbreaker. Iron stamped WARRANTED HOWLAND…...Bee Hive Trademark….$3 this morning…along with a pair of Lufkin RED END X46 rulers…for $6…


----------



## donwilwol

This is just the ones from Albany. I don't know what I have yet


----------



## DanKrager

Don, Might there be anything like this? I would like to have a plane like this skew dado, so my plan is to restore this, the only one I have found anywhere when not looking.

So if a parts plane shows up, i'd be interested.










DanK


----------



## donwilwol

> Don, Might there be anything like this? I would like to have a plane like this skew dado, so my plan is to restore this, the only one I have found anywhere when not looking.
> 
> So if a parts plane shows up, i d be interested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


I just sold RWE one. I will look for another. I think I seen one


----------



## HokieKen

Is Don coming over to the dark side with the rest of us Iron Slingers? ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Cardio Workout for today..









Got 2 edges done…









Only 4 more to do….Stanley No. 8c


----------



## donwilwol

> Is Don coming over to the dark side with the rest of us Iron Slingers? ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


I'm so far down this rabbit hole, I haven't seen light in years!


----------



## HokieKen

Some Father's Day fun.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Bandit, I have a tapered blade with chip breaker and screw. I will go measure the width for you if you are interested. I'm moving a little slow this morning, tweaked my back somehow. : (

edit: Well bummer, looks like I have used the chip breaker on something else at some point. Thought it was still with the blade but it is not. Just have the tapered blade and it is 5 centipedes wide.


----------



## Johnny7

> Just have the tapered blade and it is 5 centipedes wide.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


We need to take up a collection and get this poor guy a ruler-he's using insect bodies as a system of measurement!


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Just have the tapered blade and it is 5 centipedes wide.
> 
> - BlasterStumps





> We need to take up a collection and get this poor guy a ruler-he s using insect bodies as a system of measurement!
> 
> - Johnny7


Anything but metric :-D


----------



## bandit571

Rulers..









Picked these 2 Saturday….$3 each….Lufkin X46 Extention…..


----------



## EricFai

I need to dig a few of then out that I have.


----------



## corelz125

Took one of those rulers out the other day and my daughter said what is that? How does it even work?


----------



## HokieKen

Father's Day booty


----------



## HokieKen

I spent about 20 minutes with CBN chasing that low corner on this block plane iron yesterday.









That's when the ruler trick makes some good sense. Of course, me coming up short in that particular department, I chased it until it got flat…


----------



## donwilwol

My father's day booty has not much to do with tools


----------



## HokieKen

I'll trade you a rasp for a 4 wheeler Don!


----------



## corelz125

Very nice gift Don


----------



## donwilwol

> I ll trade you a rasp for a 4 wheeler Don!
> 
> - HokieKen


wait until i get it stuck. Then we'll talk.


----------



## Notw

> My father s day booty has not much to do with tools
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Don W


We are in different tax brackets sir


----------



## bigblockyeti

You hit a deer (delicious looking BTW) with your ATV?


----------



## Mosquito

Anyone have any good info on "The Goodwood Plane"? I'm looking at the UK folks, as that's where it came from originally I believe.

This is the only stamping I've found on it so far


----------



## Notw

google searching has led me to believe it could have been an Australian company, the Goodwood Aust. Productions. But I could be wrong.


----------



## Lazyman

I wonder if they ever got their patents.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> This is just the ones from Albany. I don t know what I have yet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Don W


Any of those Albany planes by M. Crannell that I don't have?


----------



## HokieKen

The HTPAA does list Goodwood Productions as an Aussie plane maker. I didn't find anything more about the company though.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Notw and Kenny, that's more info than I had found before


----------



## bandit571

In use, today…in no particular order….









A Cordless Jointer..









Flattening a panel, AFTER..









Craftsman Jack plane gave things a good scrubbing..









A rebate made, and a block plane to add a slight bevel … 5/16" cutter..


----------



## donwilwol

> This is just the ones from Albany. I don t know what I have yet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Don W
> 
> Any of those Albany planes by M. Crannell that I don't have?
> 
> - SmittyCabinetshop





> This is just the ones from Albany. I don t know what I have yet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Don W
> 
> Any of those Albany planes by M. Crannell that I don't have?
> 
> - SmittyCabinetshop


Here's what they are

Albany
M. Crannell
Bensen & Crannell (3)
Bensen & Crannell with no blade (#12 round)
D. Benaen
J&J Bensen
Joseph Gibson
Randall


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

What's the profile is on the M. Crannell? Can't tell, might be a hollow?


----------



## donwilwol

M.Crannell Albany 2in Skewed


----------



## MikeB_UK

That stamp on a weird looking plough Mos?


----------



## bandit571

This WAS going to get used, today…but









Too much wood to plane….









KK-4 was switched out for…









McRough and McFine….on the bevels…

Router got used..









Got a little bit done..









Before the Heat Cramps hit..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Let's make a deal, Don.


----------



## bandit571

Random plane photo from this evening…









Spalted Maple….vs…Stanley No. 80…


----------



## sansoo22

My two favorite block planes getting a quick tune and test before heading back to work. The knuckle cap is by far my favorite. That thing is dialed in superbly well.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Pictures:









and from the front..









Middle one is a No. 15, type 3….Stanley No.8c and the Craftsman( M-F's ) 14" jack plane….









And a "Motley Crue" of planes…and…









The No. 80 at work…


----------



## RWE

Eat your heart out Kenny!!

Another Millers Falls in the house. Actually, have mercy on me, why did I do this.

This seems to be the last of the line, 1974. a 9814 Jack. It was basically free, so I am not going to get depressed.
From Old tool heaven:


*Nos. 8900 and 9814.
Millers Falls economy plane

In 1974, the models 900 and 814 became the 8900 and 9814. Under the new numbers, the two popularly priced economy planes were offered through at least 1984-eight years after the last premium bench plane had disappeared from the catalog. Neither the sides nor the bottoms of the planes were milled. Catalog copy indicates that only the bottoms of the planes were polished.

Although the company offered a premium bench plane until 1976, it had been apparent since the late 1960s that the mass market for quality hand planes had collapsed. The Millers Falls economy planes were deemed adequate to meet the needs of a public that had become increasingly unaware of the capabilities of a fine hand tool.*









What is this strange trigger type part. Is this real or is this a Frankenplane?










That trigger does not match the adjuster in the picture on Old Tool Heaven. Anybody have one of these? I will add it to the "Deplorables" group. It is so ugly it is pretty.


----------



## corelz125

I never seen one of them before but it looks like it could be worse than a Pexto


----------



## RWE

I had a big day today. Not that I needed them, but between Don W and the store with the infinite basement of odds and ends, I came up with about 20 or 30 or so working molding planes, fillisters, one beam and wedge plow, coffins and various parts, wedges, cap irons, irons and so forth, plus a box full of incomplete molding plane bodies.

I will post more on that stuff later. Have to get it sorted out.

*Now it is time for "STUMP THE BAND".*

What is this?


> ?


? I mentioned it a while back. I forgot to take photos. Got it for free, and not sure what the heck it is. I think there is a Trademark Name below where the adjuster comes through. I will see if I can clean it up and post back when I figure out the brand.





































The adjuster rolls in a cam motion. I think the iron must have ridden in the tab that rises out of the center or mouth /frog. The adjuster seems to move about 3/8 of inch back and forth, so I have to assume there was an iron and some sort of lever cap.

Help??


----------



## CO_Goose

Looks like a Birmingham.

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/27/birmingham-plane-co/

Goose.


----------



## DavePolaschek

So, I was just thinking… I've really been enjoying the plane I got in the HPOYD Secret Santa last year (a Sargent transitional fore plane, which has become my most-used plane once I slapped a Hock blade in it and thereby eliminated the little bit of chatter it had), and I wonder if the interest would be there for another go-round this year?

I used to have Kenny's rules bookmarked, but I seem to have deleted that (or Apple deleted it for me). It's somewhere up-thread there.

So what say, folks? Give it another try?


----------



## corelz125

That is some gift you got there RWE, thats not a deplorable even though its missing some parts


----------



## RWE

> Looks like a Birmingham.
> 
> https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/27/birmingham-plane-co/
> 
> Goose.
> 
> - CO_Goose


I just knocked off some rust. It had been broken and welded back, both sides behind the mouth. Nice repair however. I think you are right. There were no marks under the adjuster. You sir have beat "Stump the Band".

Thanks, I now know where to direct my research.


----------



## RWE

> So, I was just thinking… I've really been enjoying the plane I got in the HPOYD Secret Santa last year (a Sargent transitional fore plane, which has become my most-used plane once I slapped a Hock blade in it and thereby eliminated the little bit of chatter it had), and I wonder if the interest would be there for another go-round this year?
> 
> I used to have Kenny's rules bookmarked, but I seem to have deleted that (or Apple deleted it for me). It's somewhere up-thread there.
> 
> So what say, folks? Give it another try?
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


I enjoyed the swap. I would vote yes to do it again.


----------



## HokieKen

https://www.lumberjocks.com/replies/5353468

Here are the rules from last year. If there's enough interest, I'm in again.


----------



## RWE

> I had a big day today. Not that I needed them, but between Don W and the store with the infinite basement of odds and ends, I came up with about 20 or 30 or so working molding planes, fillisters, one beam and wedge plow, coffins and various parts, wedges, cap irons, irons and so forth, plus a box full of incomplete molding plane bodies.
> 
> I will post more on that stuff later. Have to get it sorted out.
> 
> *Now it is time for "STUMP THE BAND".*
> 
> What is this?
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> 
> ? I mentioned it a while back. I forgot to take photos. Got it for free, and not sure what the heck it is. I think there is a Trademark Name below where the adjuster comes through. I will see if I can clean it up and post back when I figure out the brand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The adjuster rolls in a cam motion. I think the iron must have ridden in the tab that rises out of the center or mouth /frog. The adjuster seems to move about 3/8 of inch back and forth, so I have to assume there was an iron and some sort of lever cap.
> 
> Help??
> 
> - RWE
Click to expand...

Bingo. On Worthpoint. It is an ANTIQUE MOSHER'S 1884 PATENTED BIRMINGHAM PLANE CO. NO. 102 ADJ. IRON JACK PLANE body.

Any of you fellows have some spare Birmingham plane parts!!


----------



## 33706

> I had a big day today. Not that I needed them, but between Don W and the store with the infinite basement of odds and ends, I came up with about 20 or 30 or so working molding planes, fillisters, one beam and wedge plow, coffins and various parts, wedges, cap irons, irons and so forth, plus a box full of incomplete molding plane bodies.
> 
> I will post more on that stuff later. Have to get it sorted out.
> 
> *Now it is time for "STUMP THE BAND".*
> 
> What is this?
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> 
> ? I mentioned it a while back. I forgot to take photos. Got it for free, and not sure what the heck it is. I think there is a Trademark Name below where the adjuster comes through. I will see if I can clean it up and post back when I figure out the brand.
> 
> The adjuster rolls in a cam motion. I think the iron must have ridden in the tab that rises out of the center or mouth /frog. The adjuster seems to move about 3/8 of inch back and forth, so I have to assume there was an iron and some sort of lever cap.
> 
> Help??
> 
> - RWE
> 
> Bingo. On Worthpoint. It is an ANTIQUE MOSHER S 1884 PATENTED BIRMINGHAM PLANE CO. NO. 102 ADJ. IRON JACK PLANE body.
> 
> Any of you fellows have some spare Birmingham plane parts!!
> 
> - RWE
Click to expand...

I was going to suggest that the plane was a *Birdsill Holly* tool. Pk.


----------



## donwilwol

That's definitely a Birmingham. Finding the rest of the parts will be a bit of a challenge I think.

Pretty cool find though


----------



## RWE

> That s definitely a Birmingham. Finding the rest of the parts will be a bit of a challenge I think.
> 
> Pretty cool find though
> 
> - Don W


That is the problem with this kind of a pick. I have an incomplete B-Plane, several incomplete transitionals, parts and pieces.

I figure the the B-Plane will make at least some good shelf art.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Well, that's three potentially in for the Secret Santa. I suspect there will be a few more, so I'm leaning towards doing it. We're a bit later getting started than last year, but there's still a good chunk of time, so I don't think that's an obstacle. And I was thinking that with inflation as it has been, maybe we bump the limit to $50. I don't think that's strictly necessary, but a little more breathing room on the price means we won't be seeing all block planes…

So I guess if there's interest, I've just bout talked myself into running it. I'll give folks a few days to speak up, and I'll get the email account set up and such by the Fourth of July, provided of course there's a little more interest.

Sound like a plan?


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks for heading it up Dave. You can put me down as a "definitely."


----------



## TedT2

> So, I was just thinking… I've really been enjoying the plane I got in the HPOYD Secret Santa last year (a Sargent transitional fore plane, which has become my most-used plane once I slapped a Hock blade in it and thereby eliminated the little bit of chatter it had), and I wonder if the interest would be there for another go-round this year?
> 
> I used to have Kenny's rules bookmarked, but I seem to have deleted that (or Apple deleted it for me). It's somewhere up-thread there.
> 
> So what say, folks? Give it another try?
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


I would love to do it again.


----------



## sansoo22

Count me in for Secret Santa as well.

We will see if this year I can settle on just one plane purchase for the exchange. I think last year I bought like half a dozen…once I start plane shopping it tends to get out of hand quick.


----------



## DavePolaschek

So, I'm convinced there's enough interest, and I got the email account set up, so we're ready to go.

*Announcing HPOYD Secret Santa 2022* 

"Registration" will be open through July 15. Register by shooting me an e-mail at [email protected] that contains your LJ username, your real name, and your mailing address. Also let me know if you ARE NOT willing to ship to Canada. I'll send out name assignments first week of August.

Secret Santa will only be open to members in North America (US and Canada). Shipping and customs can get very convoluted and expensive going overseas, and the delays can be brutal. If you want to fire up an EU, UK or AUS plane swap, you're welcome to steal these rules, since I stole them from Kenny.

Rules as follows:

Spending cap of $50 USD (Canadians use the current exchange rate when you purchase your plane). Any shipping costs to get the plane and to send the plane to your recipient are your responsibility and are outside of the spending cap. $50 has to cover the full package though. Any replacement parts etc. must be included. In other words do not spend more than $50 excluding shipping. If you have replacement parts on-hand, you must include them in your spending at a reasonable market price.
If you already possess a plane you would like to send instead of buying another, that is perfectly fine. If that's the case though, you should be able to remember how much you paid for it and know it was less than $50. If you don't know what you paid for it, you should be confident that if you were to shop for the same plane on Ebay etc. you would be able to purchase another for $50. If you purchase two planes for $90, and you're keeping the worse one, you may be cheating (not that we'll know). If you're keeping the better one, you're probably ok.
You can send any plane (or planes) you wish but it must be a plane. As far as defining what is a plane, I'll leave it up to each person to decide. Cabinet scrapers? Spokeshaves? I think those qualify. But you can decide for yourself.
The plane you send doesn't have to be complete but does have to be usable in the condition you send it in. You can send a fillester plane that's missing depth stops and the fence because it can be used as a shoulder plane. You can't send a fillester plane without a blade though.
You don't have to consider your time or consumables in your spending (but certainly can if you wish). So if you buy a crusty but complete vintage plane for $50 then spend 6 hours, a few sheets of sandpaper and a rattle can of enamel rehabbing it, you've still met the $50 spending cap. If you spend $50 on a vintage plane and then pay Don W or Sansoo to rehab it for you though, you're a damn cheater ;-)
Your plane should be shipped to your recipient sometime after Thanksgiving but in time to arrive before Christmas. This will make sure that everyone receives their gift around the same time.
When you receive a plane in the mail, post some pictures here for the rest of us to see and tell us who sent it to you. If you don't post showing off your goodies, expect to get coal (or something else brown) in your stocking for Christmas.
If you sign up, don't forget you signed up ;-) If for some reason you need to drop out, please inform me ASAP because it will require re-shuffling some names around. So just don't drop out.

So that's what I'm thinking. These rules seemed to work last year, but I bumped the limit to account for inflation / supply chain headaches / whatever.

Edited to add: apparently there's some interest. By the time I sent an email to myself to register, I already had the first registration from someone else. Nice!


----------



## Thedustydutchman

I've never participated in anything like a swap before. Are these planes we restore? Custom built planes? Do we try to find exactly what the swap partner would want? I'm interested in trying this out but not sure what would be expected. I'd hate to let someone down.


----------



## sansoo22

> I ve never participated in anything like a swap before. Are these planes we restore? Custom built planes? Do we try to find exactly what the swap partner would want? I m interested in trying this out but not sure what would be expected. I d hate to let someone down.
> 
> - Thedustydutchman


I wouldn't worry about letting anyone down at all. This is all just for fun and camaraderie around a hobby related to woodworking. If you find an interesting odd ball plane and send it as a gift most of us enthusiasts will appreciate it because it might be something we've never seen or perhaps only seen in pictures before.

I will say its probably easier for those of us that have been on this thread for a while to know other users tastes and needs.

I'm not sure what the rules are for a custom built plane but if you can do it under $50 I think it would be appreciated by anyone that participates. Personally I'm known to be a bit of a restorer so I sent out a fully restored #3 last year.


----------



## BB1

I posted about fixing up a couple hand tools that were my grandpa's. For the hand plane, a Stanley 130, there is a number by the throat as well - looks like 208. Wondering why there are two numbers.




























Any insights are appreciated!


----------



## bandit571

usually the cavity in a mold, from when the base was cast…


----------



## DavePolaschek

Jerry, it can be a used plane, or one you restored. The transitional I got last year had just been cleaned up, and I was plenty happy with that. A custom-built plane would probably be over the top, and probably exceed the spending limit, but if you can do that and want to, have at it.

If your recipient has specific tastes, you can send something that fits their proclivities such as the Tek-Tool I sent Mos last year. He's big into combination planes, and the Tek-Tool sold itself as a sort of combination plane, and I was almost certain he didn't already have one, so it seemed like a good idea and he seemed happy with it. But the one I found on eBay was essentially new, so I didn't get to do much cleanup or customizing. I expect I'll be doing a bit more work this year.

As for letting someone down, don't worry about that. Most of us who participate in swaps or the Secret Santa are going to have expectations set by previous swaps. Sometimes you get great stuff, and sometimes it's nice, but not great, and as long as *something* shows up in the mail, it's good. The only times I've been disappointed has been when someone "ghosts" a swap and doesn't send anything and doesn't tell us they're dropping out. Please don't do that.


----------



## corelz125

Count me in again this year.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm in.


----------



## donwilwol

Count me in


----------



## donwilwol

> I posted about fixing up a couple hand tools that were my grandpa s. For the hand plane, a Stanley 130, there is a number by the throat as well - looks like 208. Wondering why there are two numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any insights are appreciated!
> 
> - BB1


The 208 mark doesn't look cast, it looks stamped. The typical reason for stamping is an owners mark. Something unique to tell it from others an owner puts on a tool. With the unique cap, it's also possible it was some kind of prototype. That might be a bit of a stretch, but not impossible.


----------



## BB1

By "owners mark" - would that be by the manufacturer? I don't think he would have added it (guessing more extensive tools involved?)? It was under the rust so I likely pulled the paint off when cleaning/sanding. Hard to tell and it's pretty faint.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Well I think I'll give it a try. I've had an idea in my head I've wanted to try for a while and I think this would be the perfect opportunity.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Hmm. I've seen a lot of people saying, "I'm in," but I only have four emails so far. Remember to email [email protected] to sign up if you want to be in for reals.

I've sent a reply to everyone I've received an email from. If you don't have a reply, I haven't heard from you yet.


----------



## donwilwol

there was nothing in the instructions that said we needed to read the instruction!


----------



## donwilwol

> By "owners mark" - would that be by the manufacturer? I don t think he would have added it (guessing more extensive tools involved?)? It was under the rust so I likely pulled the paint off when cleaning/sanding. Hard to tell and it s pretty faint.
> 
> - BB1


The manufacturer was Stanley. Not that there are not copies made by pattern makers and foundry worker who used a Stanley plane as a pattern, but they are usually easily spotted, and this is not one of them, so we'll assume Stanley was the manufacture.

An owners mark is something put on a tool so when a craftsman went to a job site, his tools could be distinguished from everyone elses. Sometimes its a name, sometimes it's just some kind of pattern of marks.

I do not know what "208" would mean, but I assume it is some kind of identifying mark put on after manufacturing.

It's all a quess, so take it for what it's worth.


----------



## BB1

Don- your guess is better than I would ever come up with. Will ask my dad if he has any memory of the added number. Thanks for sharing your insights.


----------



## EricFai

Dave, I might jump on on this one. Haven't hit a flea market for a while.


----------



## corelz125

> there was nothing in the instructions that said we needed to read the instruction!
> 
> - Don W


Glad I'm not the only one who doesn't follow instructions


----------



## HokieKen

E-mail sent Dave.

I will note one thing about the rules: Last year lots of folks were ready to ship before Thanksgiving and we allowed it. So I'd probably change the shipping deadline to just be "so it gets to your recipient before Christmas." Reveals were spread well out anyway.


----------



## theoldfart

E mail sent Dave.


----------



## RWE

Dave:

How much would it cost me to get the swap rigged so that I could get a Sargent from Don or a restoration from Sansoo?

I have an extra $5 if that would do it. Let me know.


----------



## bandit571

I was in last year's swap….not sure about this year…yet…

I have a lot of trouble with Emails…and prefer PM here….

Also, there is a HUGE Labor Day Tractor Fest I usually go to….a LOT of old tools are for sale…..and I try to save up for that….I think last time, I picked a Stanley No.6….

Last year, I shipped out 3 Sargent planes to upstate New York….

Hopefully later today…I can try to use that Stanley No. 71-1/2 to clean up hinge mortises….and a VIX bit for the hinge screws..


----------



## DavePolaschek

Well, my email program thinks I've got ten messages from people who've entered. Of course one didn't read the directions and include his address, so who knows where his plane is going. Maybe to RWE for a few extra bucks?

Bandit, if you PM me with the required info, I'll email it to myself so you end up in the pile of names when it comes time for me to draw them.

I probably wouldn't take away anyone's birthday for shipping early. I mean heck, there's not really much enforcement power with this position. But I can't edit the post, so…

I now have four planes potentially slated for the Secret Santa. All of which will require some work to be "working." Sigh.


----------



## bandit571

Stanley No. 71-1/2 router plane, to clean and level hinge mortises?










Sure…









Move and rotate the cutter….not enough room on the inside,,,outside works just fine…


----------



## Lazyman

Dave, I think that last time Kenny later excluded sales tax from the spending cap.

Still on the fence about whether to join.

Now that I think about it, I do not think I ever saw the items I sent for the last one shown? I hope they got them.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah tax and shipping didn't have to fit into the spending cap last year.

Who did you ship to last year Nathan? I don't think I kept the list…


----------



## Lazyman

I will have to go back and look myself. They are not a frequent poster on the thread.

EDIT: it was tshiker. I went and looked at their profile and their last 2 posts were back in December. One was an acknowledgement of receiving the package and that they were going to wait until Christmas to open and then another unrelated post on 12/22. Hope they are okay.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I hope none of the participants this year do that, Nathan. Sucks to send something off and then never hear any more about it.


----------



## Lazyman

I am more worried about their long absence.

I guess I should look for the pictures I took before I shipped it. They weren't anything especially exciting but I enjoyed refurbishing them.


----------



## HokieKen

Tom isn't a frequent poster but I think he lurks in the shadows pretty regularly. He's a good contributor when it comes to vintage tools. It's strange for him not to have at least acknowledged recieving though. Like you, I hope all is well. *Give us a sign if you're about Tom!*

By all means post a pic if you have one Nathan!


----------



## RWE

One of the items that I came up with in the "infinite basement" at the Antique Store on my recent visit is what I believe is a frankenplane.

I have never seen a white field behind the Stanley logo on a lever cap. The iron is Stanley. So I think they go together. However the body looks like a Millers Falls. Perhaps it is a late Stanley model that I am not familiar with or the Antique store guy slaped some parts together.

Does anyone recognize the body of this plane. Talking to you Bandit and Kenny, or anyone else that might recognize the odd body. "Made in USS" is behind the raised ring for the knob.

C557MP is stamped under where the tote would rest

C556MP is stamped in the center hollow square of the frog top.

I figure the body is a late model, 60's 70's, gull wing lateral and the adjuster is metal, not rubber.

Help? What is this? Defiance, Handyman??









MF?


----------



## Lazyman

As I said nothing too exciting but here are some pictures. The Stanley 220 was very rusty with only about 50% of the japanning left so it was a total strip down and repaint.









Initially, I thought that the nob looked to be in good shape and the original finish was in excellent condition but upon closer inspection I realized that it had a crack almost all the way through. I stabilized it with some CA and sent it along with the plane but decided to make a new one out of massaranduba. I always find that the nobs are a little too small so I over sized it. I tried to let the threads on the stub just sort of make their only threads in the new nob but I think the massaranduba was probably too dense for that to work. I found that the woodworm screw from my Nova chuck has about the same pitch as the stub on the plane so I used it to sort of pre-cut some threads which worked well. The massaranduba turns so nicely that I was able to simply burnish with some 600 grit paper and I just used a little T&T varnish oil to pop the grain a little.










I also cleaned up this old wooden plane and sent it along for the ride too. I don't remember if it had any makers marks on the iron and I don't seem to have taken any pictures of it. This mostly just required a little scraping to clean off the barn grim and I used a little CA to seal a couple of cracks but the wood was in pretty good shape overall. I did use my #7 to take a slight bow out of the sole taking the finest shavings possible until I got a full width shaving from end to end. It didn't take much. I applied a little wax on the sole and some T&T varnish oil on the rest. I didn't do anything to the wedge or throat as they seem to fit pretty tight. IIRC, the handle had been glued before I got it and I didn't do anything but clean it with a damp rag.


----------



## RWE

Also from the "infinite basement" was a body for a Transitional Stanley 135. I assume the term Liberty Bell came from a logo on the iron? Nothing on the body with that logo. This is obviously missing the lever cap, chip breaker and iron. I may have a knob and tote for it on Ebay if I don't get outbid.

I was wondering is anyone had a trashed out body for one of these, but good iron and cap. PM me if you do, I would like to put it in order.

I am not a collector.


----------



## bandit571

The one I have like that…is by Ohio Tool Co. No. 035….however…it is NOT made like the Liberty Bell planes…the bolt that connects the chipbreaker to the iron has a fragile tab….that engages the depth setting arm. And. Liberty Bell irons have narrower slots to fit that bolt….

However…IF you happen upon a slightly larger, but beat up Liberty Bell Jack plane…save all the cap iron, chipbreaker, and iron…make sure it is the correct iron and chipbreaker….and use that for parts.


----------



## RWE

> The one I have like that…is by Ohio Tool Co. No. 035….however…it is NOT made like the Liberty Bell planes…the bolt that connects the chipbreaker to the iron has a fragile tab….that engages the depth setting arm. And. Liberty Bell irons have narrower slots to fit that bolt….
> 
> However…IF you happen upon a slightly larger, but beat up Liberty Bell Jack plane…save all the cap iron, chipbreaker, and iron…make sure it is the correct iron and chipbreaker….and use that for parts.
> 
> - bandit571


This is the second Liberty Bell I have ever seen. We don't get a lot of variety in my area of the country. The other one was in a collection of a fellow who had been collecting for 20 or 30 years.

I checked Ebay for Liberty Bell parts and came up blank other than the tote and knob.


----------



## Johnny7

> One of the items that I came up with in the "infinite basement" at the Antique Store on my recent visit is what I believe is a frankenplane.
> 
> I have never seen a white field behind the Stanley logo on a lever cap. The iron is Stanley. So I think they go together. However the body looks like a Millers Falls. Perhaps it is a late Stanley model that I am not familiar with or the Antique store guy slaped some parts together.
> 
> Does anyone recognize the body of this plane.
> "Made in USS" is behind the raised ring for the knob.
> 
> C557MP is stamped under where the tote would rest
> 
> C556MP is stamped in the center hollow square of the frog top.
> 
> I figure the body is a late model, 60 s 70 s, gull wing lateral and the adjuster is metal, not rubber.
> 
> Help? What is this? Defiance, Handyman??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MF?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE


Appears to be a late model (1970's) Stanley which would originally have had a Cordovan finish (oxblood).
The white background of lever cap would've been yellow.


----------



## corelz125

Thats a Craftsman RWe


----------



## RWE

> Thats a Craftsman RWe
> 
> - corelz125


So you think the body is Craftsman and someone put on the Stanley lever cap and iron.


> Appears to be a late model (1970 s) Stanley which would originally have had a Cordovan finish (oxblood).
> The white background of lever cap would ve been yellow.
> 
> - Johnny7


I like this theory better. I will see if there is some online info on the late 70's Stanleys. The white is so far gone, it could have been yellow.


----------



## RWE

We have a winner. Looks like it is a Stanley. Don has a write up on it and the pictures match up perfectly.

Stanley Cordavan


----------



## bandit571

Those also came in a light blue colour…before the Cordovan years 67-69…...Handyman planes never had those ribs around the rear handle, either.

Whale Tail Lateral levers were "crimped" down somewhere around 1962 on….


----------



## RWE

> Those also came in a light blue colour…before the Cordovan years 67-69…...Handyman planes never had those ribs around the rear handle, either.
> 
> Whale Tail Lateral levers were "crimped" down somewhere around 1962 on….
> 
> - bandit571


I think this is a Cordavan model based on the field color. I just found a listing on Ebay for a Blue one and the field color is orange behind the Stanley logo on the Blue model.

Thanks for the info.


----------



## corelz125

That makes sense that i've had Craftsman that looked like that since Stanley made planes for them.


----------



## donwilwol

RWE, the liberty bell on the cap

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2022/06/12/stanley-liberty-bell-hand-plane-series/


----------



## RWE

I am rebuilding the estate sale cabinet that I keep my planes in. Some fine old fellow had put it together for storing his hobby materials. It was only 5.5 inches deep, but would accommodate two planes side by side. I have doubled the depth so that I can get smoothers straight in.

Anyway, I got to use the 78 to cut about 18 feet of rabbets to hide the 1/8 inch back ply. That was fun. Then I got to use the Fulton swing arm tongue and groove plane to joint some boards to make wider shelves.

I made an amazing discovery. Using the planes is maybe more fun that refurbing and collecting them!!










A work in progress:









Once I get this completed and my 45's all moved into it, then I can free up some wall space next to the bench and build a more serious cabinet for my favorites.


----------



## KentInOttawa

I flattened the back of the blade for a wooden round today.










Then I touched up the cutting edge. By the looks of it, it hadn't been sharpened for at least a century.










I fashioned a slip stone from a chunk of dowel. The diameter doesn't need to match the size of the iron. If the iron is skewed correctly when sharpening, it will match. After a few strokes with 180 grit to get the accumulated grunge off, I did some minor polishing with green buffing compound.










That appears to have worked. I enjoyed practicing using the cross-peen hammer for setting the blade and the wedge. A shallow set and cuts are the key to the best results.


----------



## RWE

Kent:

I have a series of hollows and rounds to do. Good info. Have you ever replaced "boxing" on molding planes? I will search YouTube, but if anyone has good info on how to clear old boxing and insert replacement, any secrets, post it here. Mostly what I am talking about are the thin strips that are boxed into beaders and such.

At the Antique store with the infinite basement, I picked up some usable (iron and wedge included) and some just wood only molding planes. I am planning to remove boxing from some of the bad ones and replace it in ones with the irons. I can't remember the species typically used for boxing, but I know it was hard and durable.

I may give a hand at making irons as well. Any links or info on making your own irons would be appreciated.


----------



## KentInOttawa

I haven't repaired or replaced any boxing yet, although I don have one plane that has some loose boxing. I've been looking into that, but haven't found anything definitive yet.

One area to investigate further is that most vintage planes would have been glued with hide glue, so perhaps some heat and steam to loosen the existing boxing would do the trick? Also, depending on the condition of the existing boxing, I've contemplated laminating a layer or two of veneer to it to create a sort of micro-plywood that is both stronger and marginally thicker than the original boxing. A scraper could then be used the shave it thin enough to fit back in.

Just some thoughts…


----------



## RWE

> I haven t repaired or replaced any boxing yet, although I don have one plane that has some loose boxing. I ve been looking into that, but haven t found anything definitive yet.
> 
> One area to investigate further is that most vintage planes would have been glued with hide glue, so perhaps some heat and steam to loosen the existing boxing would do the trick? Also, depending on the condition of the existing boxing, I ve contemplated laminating a layer or two of veneer to it to create a sort of micro-plywood that is both stronger and marginally thicker than the original boxing. A scraper could then be used the shave it thin enough to fit back in.
> 
> Just some thoughts…
> 
> - Kent


I had considered that hide glue might have been used. I have a heat gun for paint removal. I guess I could try that on one of the incomplete planes and see.

I have Persimmon on hand, that I could use for replacement wood. Maybe that is the better direction, just replace the bad boxing with Persimmon.


----------



## Lazyman

You will have better luck getting hide glue to soften with both heat and moisture. It takes both to basically reactivate and soften hide glue.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> At the Antique store with the infinite basement, I picked up some usable (iron and wedge included) and some just wood only molding planes. I am planning to remove boxing from some of the bad ones and replace it in ones with the irons. I can t remember the species typically used for boxing, but I know it was hard and durable.
> - RWE


Boxwood - hence boxing


----------



## Thedustydutchman

My set of kidney bean bench planes is now officially complete!!!!! The long number 2 was the last one I needed and now I have it. Its super mint too.


----------



## Notw

Mandatory picture of the full set Jerry!


----------



## Mosquito

^ What he said! Congrats on the #2 and full set


----------



## Thedustydutchman

I will post a full set picture when I get home. I am way more excited than any normal person should be lol


----------



## BlasterStumps

Working on scrubs. I was comparing the totes on them and it turns out that the one with the light colored wood is by far the most comfortable to use. Looks like crap as it is now. I need to find out what will help it look better. I think a lot of the 40's had beech wood. I know the gel stain I have now will only make it look worse so I got to do a little research. The tote on the top 40 in the picture is one that I made. Don't like it, not comfortable in the hand when using the plane. The rosewood tote on the middle plane has been broken and glued back together. Seems strong enough but looks like crap up close. It seems a little easier on the hand than the one I made but still a big difference between it and the light colored one. If I get my mitts on some 15/16" something, I will make some new furniture for the scrub 40 to see if I can improve on one or more.


----------



## Mosquito

> I will post a full set picture when I get home. I am way more excited than any normal person should be lol
> 
> - Thedustydutchman


I'm pretty sure we've determined not many of us here are normal to anyone other than within our group


----------



## EricFai

What is normal anymore.


----------



## corelz125

> I will post a full set picture when I get home. I am way more excited than any normal person should be lol
> 
> - Thedustydutchman
> 
> I m pretty sure we ve determined not many of us here are normal to anyone other than within our group
> 
> - Mosquito


Other people think that we have a problem. The only problem most of us have is not enough room and not enough money


----------



## EricFai

Agreed Corlez.


----------



## RWE

> Other people think that we have a problem. The only problem most of us have is not enough room and not enough money
> 
> - corelz125


 I certainly qualify on the enough room and enough money. If I did not have a money problem, I would have more planes.










There is a method to the madness in my expansion of the old planes cabinet:

One B-Plane to rule them all on top

Blocks

Scrapers and Routers

3's then 4's, one 4 1/2 and a 40

5's and one 5 1/4

7 and 8

45's, plows and the 78

Leaves room for one row that will probably be transitionals

Parts and odds and ends in the bottom.

I am just a normal Lumberjocks guy.

Now that I have these fellows housed, I can build a serious hanging cabinet for the best of breed selection. Got to make one more shelf and the depth expansion will be finished.


----------



## theoldfart

Thank heavens I'M not a collector! I just move stuff around to find my tools for some reason!


----------



## Thedustydutchman

As requested! My full set of kidney beans. 1/2 and 1/4 sizes included. Good thing they never made a no 1 with the kidney lever. Next on the list is the kidney carrage makers planes….Not that I need them in any way, shape or form lol.


----------



## EricFai

That is a beautiful set. Now all you need is a till to put them all in.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Thanks! I have a nice shelf under my bench where I keep them


----------



## EricFai

I have a few planes that I need to build a till for. Get them off a side bench.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

My shelf is full at this point. If (when) i buy any more i will have to make something else to hold them. I would like to build a small till to hold my most used ones though


----------



## Notw

Wow that is an awesome looking set


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Stanley clapboard gauges in use yesterday. Pretty slick little things!



















Yes, I'm scraping and painting 'This Old House.' A few boards were worse for wear after 125 years, so have been replaced with salvage stock.

Here's the new color scheme (shed #1 is done):


----------



## Mosquito

Very cool Smitty. I wasn't aware that they would do their job in place. I always thought they were something you had to hold while in use


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I should do an instructable video on their use…


----------



## Mosquito

I'd watch it lol


----------



## Thedustydutchman

I never knew those clapboard gauges existed. Thats really neat!


----------



## theoldfart

I will second the motion to have Smitty do a video. I also didn't realize they would stay in place on there own. Lack of imagination I guess!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Looking good there Smitty. I can definitely appreciate the work involved with what you are undertaking. I like the color scheme too. All the best with your project.


----------



## donwilwol

I'd like to see that video as well. I always used a block of siding. That you need to hang on to!


----------



## RWE

I posted several months back about a "gull-wing" lateral on a Made in USA smoother.

It was pointed out to me that it was a Stanley Defiance. I think Bandit made the clarification.

So I stopped by today and the plane was still at that vendor's booth, now for $24.00 bucks. So, what the heck, I seem to be drawn to second tier planes.

I looked and could not see any images doing a Google search that matched. Most of the models shown had Defiance carved into the tote.

So I just cleaned up the iron and lo and behold, it said Lakeside. I have a #3 Union made Lakeside that is a good user. Same logo on the iron.

I Googled again and Don W. has this to say:

*Lakeside - Lakeside planes were cheaper Stanley-made (mostly) planes that were made for Montgomery Ward and, as such, they're not really worth a lot of money. Montgomery Ward never made their own tools but instead used other makers tools which were then rebranded. The fit and finish isn't quite as good with say a normal Stanley or Sargent plane, and the handle and knob are usually stained beech or another hardwood, rather than rosewood. With some fettling though you can end up with a decent enough worker plane.

The key word in the above paragraph is "mostly" Union also rebranded Union X series planes as Lakeside*

The knob screw is brass and the same for the tote. So I would think this might be an earlier model. The solid black lever cap is also not shown in any picture that I could find.

So, I guess I have a cheapo, somewhat early (brass) Lakeside Defiance made by Stanley.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The clapboard gauge video has already been done! Enjoy.


----------



## Lazyman

Cool tool. I've never seen siding nailed where the nails are visible like they are doing in the video.


----------



## Notw

Cardio from night before last, flattening a couple pieces of African mahogany that were too wide for the jointer


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Notw, what's the plan for that African Mahogany? I just bout 144bf of the stuff.


----------



## Notw

I am finally making a plane till, the 'box' will be plywood but there will be an accent of the mahogany on the top and bottom


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Nice! I've never worked with it. I hear tear out is pretty prevalent but it should look nice.

Mine is going to be a G&G style desk but I have enough to build another roubo instead….tempting.


----------



## RWE

> I am finally making a plane till, the box will be plywood but there will be an accent of the mahogany on the top and bottom
> 
> - Notw


Are you designing your own or will you pick from a plan. I am going to do a plane till soon (relative term) and I am exploring different designs. I don't have much head room in my shop, so it will only be about 30 inches in height. So probably just planes in the middle section. Has to be wide enough for the #8. Thinking Jacks and Smoother on the incline, but 6 7 and 8 to be horizontal.

I have had the Pekovich FWW plan for years, and if I cut off the top of his design, that is hitting on what I have room for.

Any links to designs that you like would be appreciated.

I am going with Walnut and either Sycamore or Maple. My wood sawmill buddy told me yesterday that he has plenty of Sycamore on hand.


----------



## Notw

I created my own design for this one, right now just milling the mahogany down as I don't have the heart yet to go and buy plywood, makes me sad how expensive it is.


----------



## corelz125

> The clapboard gauge video has already been done! Enjoy.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


It probably works better than most tools made today


----------



## corelz125

Nice Millers Falls sign on the July list Kenny


----------



## HokieKen

I saw that Corelz. Too rich for my blood though…


----------



## corelz125

Do you really have to eat for 2 weeks?


----------



## HokieKen

No but my wife says she does. I told her we can get by on Ramen. She said she can get by on the life insurance…


----------



## EricFai

Sounds like she means business Kenny.


----------



## tshiker

Lazyman,,

Please don't take my Inexcusable lack of acknowledgment of you're extremely generous Christmas swap gifts personally! I'm sorry and never meant any disrespect! I love the over sized knob on the 220 and you did a bang up job tuning the plane. The wooden plane decorates my shop. Thank you for your concern for my well-being. I'm alive and kicking and humbly ask for forgiveness!

Tom.


----------



## Lazyman

No worries, Tom and I am glad to hear that you are okay. When I didn't see any activity since the holidays I started to worry, with the pandemic and all. I had forgotten about it myself until this year's swap came up.


----------



## Lazyman

Has anyone compared a new Stanley 62 LA Jack to vintage ones or the LN LAJ? The modern 62s are so much cheaper but I am just curious if they are any good.


----------



## HokieKen

I've never had a 62 but I'm very happy with my Veritas LAJ. It's a really good value and they even appear to have them in stock.

I think Andre recently bought a new model 62.


----------



## bandit571

Have used the WR #62 on the last Project….









Working on beveled edges..









Along with a #14…(Craftsman/Millers Falls) Jack plane….









And with a M-F No. 15 and a No.9


----------



## Notw

I have the new Stanley no 62 but have no other ones to compare to


----------



## donwilwol

I have the LN 62. Great hand plane but I wish I would have bought the #164 instead.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, difference between the two?


----------



## HokieKen

About 102.


----------



## donwilwol

#164 is smoother not a Jack


----------



## HokieKen

.


----------



## Notw

> About 102.
> 
> - HokieKen


This ^


----------



## corelz125

Leach has the stanley #164 for July. Just might have to sell a kidney to get it though


----------



## Lazyman

Yup. He's got it at the "I really do not want to sell this" price.


----------



## Lazyman

I hadn't considered the LA smoother before now. For what I would most likely use if for that might be a better option.


----------



## rad457

Have been happy with the New Stanley #62, Used a Veritas #62 a few times but found it a little large for most of the work I do and at my age getting weaker(lazy)! 
Thought the Stanley iron would be disappointing compared to PMV-11 blades but so far really can not complain too much. 
Not sure about it's use as a smoother, think I would prefer a #4 more so?(with PMV-11 iron)


----------



## bigblockyeti

Lie-Nielsen has a 164 for $295, is a vintage Stanley better or just bragging rights?


----------



## corelz125

> Lie-Nielsen has a 164 for $295, is a vintage Stanley better or just bragging rights?
> 
> - bigblockyeti


If you can find a Stanley and if the person knows what they have. It will cost you a mortgage payment


----------



## EricFai

I'm keeping my eyes open for a Stanly #5, at some point I need to build a till, and if I design it around the Stanly Planes I would have a few empty spots.


----------



## Lazyman

You looking for a specific type Eric? Stanley #4 and #5 are one of the most common planes out there.


----------



## EricFai

Nothing in particular, I recently received a few planes from BurlyBob, would just like to find a few more. I did see a poster on pintrest a while back and I see that there are a few that have been discontinued. Not sure how accurate it was though.


----------



## waho6o9

> Has anyone compared a new Stanley 62 LA Jack to vintage ones or the LN LAJ? The modern 62s are so much cheaper but I am just curious if they are any good.
> 
> - Lazyman


I have both and like the Stanley better. Both work well YMMV


----------



## corelz125

Wasn't the new Stanley 62 sw a gamble with machining quality at first? They got it figured out now?


----------



## rad457

> Wasn t the new Stanley 62 sw a gamble with machining quality at first? They got it figured out now?
> 
> - corelz125


Found mine square and surprisingly flat, really only real complaint would be the cheap/light feel of the cap?
Iron plenty thick and seems to hold an edge as well as most, PMV-11 excluded


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Lie-Nielsen has a 164 for $295, is a vintage Stanley better or just bragging rights?
> 
> - bigblockyeti


The only solution is to get both.


----------



## HokieKen

Vintage Stanley is a collector item. Hard to find. I'd almost bet Leech's is already sold.


----------



## donwilwol

> Vintage Stanley is a collector item. Hard to find. I'd almost bet Leech's is already sold.
> 
> - HokieKen


I agree


----------



## donwilwol

Anybody ever try to repair something like this?


----------



## HokieKen

I can't tell from the picture Don but is that wood or plastic?

If it's wood, then I have and it didn't go well because the toe screw split it on the grain. I just made a while new tote after that. But if you put a spline underneath it would probably eliminate the splitting on the grain.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Got the 2" rebate today, Don. Thanks for offering it! And is that tote from a DE? That's where I see those composites, and they're always busted in some fashion…


----------



## Johnny7

I have the same first impression as Smitty-Don's tote looks like gutta percha

The majority of info on repairing gutta percha is on gun forums where members discuss repairing handgun grips


----------



## donwilwol

Glad that monster is in your collection Smitty

I'm not sure what the plane is yet, maybe. DE with a Stanley blade.

I'll reinforce the base









Add a little reinforcement









And epoxy the crap out of it and see what happens


----------



## corelz125

Cleaned this up today. Didn't take it for a test drive yet. Was a little surprised with it Don. The sole wasn't very flat.


----------



## ac0rn

> Nothing in particular, I recently received a few planes from BurlyBob, would just like to find a few more. I did see a poster on pintrest a while back and I see that there are a few that have been discontinued. Not sure how accurate it was though.
> 
> - Eric


Eric, Are you willing to put some elbow grease into it? check for pm


----------



## EricFai

Jeff, elbow grease is no problem. I have brought a few tools back to life. PM sent.

Found this at a flea market last year $5, lathered it up with oil and set it aside. Finally took it apart, and gave it a scrubbing with paint thiner an a nylon brush. did not want to remove any marking to identify. It is a Circle U #2 dating back to the mid 40's, so not really worth much


----------



## corelz125

That's a pexto Eric


----------



## EricFai

Corelz, from what I found, Plomb was the manufacturer, at least I though. Looks like a pressed frog.


----------



## corelz125

Yea the stamped steel frogs aren't very good. The base is a nice heavy casting but they went cheap with the frogs. Peck, Stow, and Wilcox is the name of the company who made them. That's where the Pexto comes from. They were sold under a variety of hardware store brands.


----------



## DevinT

> And, just to wind Devin up now she s got all the bits for the kerfing saw.
> 
> The Quangsheng 43 is back in stock.
> It s bloody small, even compared to a drawer bottom plane.
> 
> I ll have a play when I have a bit of free time and see how well it works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - MikeB_UK


It always makes me laugh when I see grown men hunched over a piece of wood holding the tiny Quangsheng/Luban 43 trying to kerf something.


----------



## Lazyman

That statement is quite a setup for some off color humor.


----------



## DevinT

> Sand, sand, sand, sand, wet sand, shellac, shellac, shellac, wet sand, wet san, wet sand, poly, poly, wet sand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now some more poly and some more wet sanding…. I'll stop when they look like Sansoo's!
> 
> - HokieKen


I think they look good. Can't wait to see how they turn out (by continuing to scroll - might already be finished)


----------



## DevinT

> That statement is quite a setup for some off color humor.
> 
> - Lazyman


I just re-read what I wrote.

Face-palm.


----------



## DevinT

> Just have the tapered blade and it is 5 centipedes wide.
> 
> - BlasterStumps
> 
> We need to take up a collection and get this poor guy a ruler-he s using insect bodies as a system of measurement!
> 
> - Johnny7


This is the funniest thing I have read all week!


----------



## tvrgeek

One can dream vintage, collectable, pretty. I dream of function.

Here is my first attempt at making a MF 814 into a shooting plane. I am still considering a larger wider plate for the right side as a more stable sole. But so far, it feels better in the hand than just holding on to a #5 and my wallet feels a lot better than plunking down for a Veritas or L-N. Not entering as a skew is not the best, so an angled board may be smart.


----------



## HokieKen

Funny that you commented on my tote and knob just now Devin  I was just about to post about them.

So I put 3 or 4 coats of shellac on those and wet sanded them and had a nice seal coat. Then I switched to poly. I know some people have trouble with poly curing on oily woods like Cocobolo but I thought the shellac would make it fine. So I started with 3 thin coats of wipe-on poly. The curing times were a lot longer than normal but it's summer in VA so even in a conditioned space that's not too unusual. But after tge third coat took several days to cure to the point it wasn't tacky, I decided to switch to spraying. So I wiped them down witn MS and rubbed them out with 0000 steel wool and sprayed a light coat. That was 10 days ago. This morning they look like this and are still tacky to the touch. Like really tacky.









Grrrr. So I wiped the knob down with MS and let it flash off and I got this.









The finish is dull on most of the part but there are some glossy spots where I assume the poly did cure so didn't come off? I've wiped it down 3x and my rag is coming off clean. There is no tackiness.

So looking for suggestions on how to proceed? Should I sand back to bare wood and start over? If so, should I just give up on the poly? (I'm trying to replicate Sansoo's finishes which is why I'm using it). Wet sand lightly and try another coat of poly? I'm more converned with appearance than efficiency on these so even labor-intensive suggestions are welcome!


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Curious if your poly is old Ken. Poly doesn't last all that long and when I read about people struggling with it I don't think it's the person mostly, I think it's the finish itself. Nothing that complicated about a poly finish so I'm going to point to that.

I also think your French polish knobs you did prior we're awesome so I would go back to that to make them match. I don't think you put poly on those?? Just my opinion.


----------



## 33706

> Corelz, from what I found, Plomb was the manufacturer, at least I though. Looks like a pressed frog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Eric


Eric, these planes were sometimes sold under the brand name "Parplus" as well. That eagle-nosed yoke is the give-away. Not sure where they come from, or why. Not listed in PTAMPIA either.


----------



## HokieKen

Nope, the wipe-on and spray are both fresh Dave. The French Polish is plan B. I just kinda like the gloss on Sansoo's planes so I thought I'd give it a go.


----------



## Lazyman

Did you use rattle can poly for the spray? I had a similar problem with Varathane's spray poly. It took about 2 weeks before it stopped feeling tacky after the second coat. For totes, I have had the best luck using Don's recommendation of using Rustoleum gloss spray lacquer. It dries in minutes so you can put on several coats in a day. I usually do not want a high gloss but for those showy pieces, I might go that route so some burnishing with high grit before each coat would be good.

BTW, I have heard that some people have problems with poly over shellac too so that could be another factor.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I've never done poly over shellac so Nathan might be on to something.


----------



## bandit571

You can come and check out…









1 coat of Stain…2 coats of Amber Shellac…then a single coat (brushed on) of Minwax "Warm" clear gloss poly….

Let each coat dry overnight….no issues found…

Of the 2 coats of shellac…1st at a 2 pound cut, 2nd at a 1 pound cut…both were applied with a brush, as was the varnish….Wood is Spalted Maple.


----------



## HokieKen

I actually have done poly over shellac before but never on an oily exotic like this. So there may be something to that.


----------



## bandit571

Hmm, wouldn't the Shellac SEAL the oily wood, and keep the oily from affecting the poly? Hmmm?


----------



## HokieKen

That was exactly what I *thought* would happen Bandit.


----------



## RWE

Whelan, The Wooden Plane, Its history, form & function.

Anyone here own this book and have any comments reviews. I am refurbing a bunch of wooden planes now and could use a good reference.

My main interest now is how were the planes used. It seems there is a British and American spelling for Moulding/Molding planes. I need info on bench and coffin planes as well. This looks like a good reference, just wanted to see if any of you folks could vouch for it.


----------



## Mosquito

This is the plane to go with that makers mark awhile back. Funky little thing










The handle and depth stop move together, and the depth stop surrounds the whole skate. Depth of cut is limited to 5/16" by the design of it










Size references


----------



## DanKrager

Even though I put two coats of oil based polyurethane on a set of six walnut salad bowls for daily use over 55 years ago they still look like new. So put on correctly (recoated with itself within 24 hours) it's pretty durable. Other than that, poly and I are not friends because it is not a "serviceable" finish, meaning, that it cannot easily and durably be recoated unless you mechanically scuff the surface thoroughly. Even then, any bonding is mechanical, not chemical. I would never try to put it over something other than itself and never put anything over the first two coats of poly. YMMV.

Me thinks regular varnish or lacquer are better choices for tool handles that will want touch up after some wear. Shellac is pretty and is not very durable even under less than demanding circumstances. Like varnish it can craze over time affecting its beauty. It scratches easily, and it is not heat nor moisture resistant in the least.

A good oil and wax finish is the most easily serviceable finish of them all. A good cleaning, recoating and good to go like new.

Good luck. 
DanK (working on a French polish finish after scraping off the old French polish that had crazed and absorbed a lot of dirt over its 75+ year life on a portable reed organ)


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Dan. I've never used poly on tool handles but Sansoo's look so nice I wanted to give his method a shot. I've about come to the conclusion that I sanded my shellac back to far in some spots before applying the poly. After several wipes with MS this weekend, the tote and knob both have no tacky spots but there are some glossy spots and some spots that look like bare wood. So my hypothesis is that in the spots where poly didn't adhere I sanded the shellac all the way off.

In any case, I'm considering options and think I'll try a light wet sanding and another coat of poly. If that doesn't cure in 24 hours I'll know it's not adhering for sure and I'll sand back to bare wood and start over with either shellac or lacquer or a combination of the two.

Thanks to all for the feedback!


----------



## donwilwol

A Stanley type 2 (although It has the recessed brass adjuster like a type 4). I think the type 2 & 4 were the most solid users Stanley made. Everything beyond that was fluff and marketing.


----------



## Johnny7

> I think the type 2 & 4 were the most solid users Stanley made. Everything beyond that was fluff and marketing.
> 
> - Don W


I would hardly call the lateral adjustment lever (introduced with the type 5) "fluff and marketing" 
I consider it a massive improvement over tapping the iron back and forth with a little hammer.


----------



## Notw

Ken I'm pretty sure Sansoo dips his handles in candy or perhaps runs them under the icing machine at Krispy Kreme


----------



## BlasterStumps

I did some practicing on making totes for the scrub planes. I roughed out a couple. They turned out to be a touch too small so I know now to enlarge the pattern before trying them again. Drilling totes is not my favorite thing. After using a forstner to drill a hole top and bottom, I drill in from one side part way thru the tote then drill in from the other side. Tricky. Now to find some thicker material to make a couple usable totes.


----------



## donwilwol

> I think the type 2 & 4 were the most solid users Stanley made. Everything beyond that was fluff and marketing.
> 
> - Don W
> 
> I would hardly call the lateral adjustment lever (introduced with the type 5) "fluff and marketing"
> I consider it a massive improvement over tapping the iron back and forth with a little hammer.
> 
> - Johnny7


I don't use a hammer either. I'll change my statement. "*In my opinion*, everything beyond that was fluff and marketing"


----------



## rad457

> I think the type 2 & 4 were the most solid users Stanley made. Everything beyond that was fluff and marketing.
> 
> - Don W
> 
> I would hardly call the lateral adjustment lever (introduced with the type 5) "fluff and marketing"
> I consider it a massive improvement over tapping the iron back and forth with a little hammer.
> 
> - Johnny7
> 
> I don t use a hammer either. I ll change my statement. "*In my opinion*, everything beyond that was fluff and marketing"
> 
> - Don W


Having started with Krenov planes, 99% of the time still tap the iron to adjust LOL! sometimes even on a Veritas. 
Do the lateral adjusters even work on a Millers Falls?


----------



## Lazyman

> I actually have done poly over shellac before but never on an oily exotic like this. So there may be something to that.
> 
> - HokieKen


Which polyurethane did you use? I would think that shellac should be compatible with oily woods because you use oil when french polishing.

I tried to find where I read about the issues with shellac and poly and the only thing I can find now is with shellac that still has the wax in it.

BTW, I also read once that you can dewax shellac by putting it in the freezer. The wax congeals before the alcohol which allows you to separate the wax by pouring it through a paint filter. You may be able to use this method to verify that your shellac is actually fully dewaxed?


----------



## bandit571

lateral adjusters work VERY well, indeed….


----------



## DevinT

Self delete. Bed time. Night all.


----------



## DanKrager

That is interesting to read that shellac can be dewaxed by freezing it. I wonder how that affects the performance of the shellac? Seems like that would remove one of the essential ingredients to its unique performance as a finish.

As I am new to French polishing, I've been studying the various techniques used to do it. So far had not read about freezing to dewax it. The old timers did indeed use tiny amounts of light mineral oil to lubricate the application process, but only in the heavier, later coats that tended to be sticky. Then they had the problem to remove the oil. A less "sketchy" process was to use the light mineral oil to lubricate an abrasive leveling process, similar to honing, and the oil was more easily removed. But all the reading I did pointed to removing the oil in the end, the full meaning of which I don't comprehend yet other than leaving the oil was not good somehow.

Watching to see the end results.

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

I have to side with J7 on this one, the lateral adjuster was a good functional add to plane designs. Maybe it's because I cut my teeth on planes with laterals but it's a must-have for me. I do have some planes that have to be tuned with a hammer and I'm okay with doing it. But, if I'm buying a new plane it's gonna have a lateral adjuster of some ilk  Frog adjustment screws on the other hand…


----------



## HokieKen

> Which polyurethane did you use? I would think that shellac should be compatible with oily woods because you use oil when french polishing.
> 
> ...
> 
> - Lazyman


On these plane parts, I used Minwax wipe-on and spray. This is the first time I've used their wipe-on or spray but I have used their poly before and never had any issues. I don't recall what poly I've used over shellac before though.

For shellac, I generally buy Bullseye in the can. I can get it locally and it's always worked well for me. It comes as a 3# cut and I cut it further with DNA when needed. When I use it as a seal coat though, like in this case, I just leave it at the full 3# cut. I don't believe it's dewaxed. That could be part of the issue. I hadn't considered that.



> ...
> As I am new to French polishing, I ve been studying the various techniques used to do it. So far had not read about freezing to dewax it. The old timers did indeed use tiny amounts of light mineral oil to lubricate the application process, but only in the heavier, later coats that tended to be sticky. Then they had the problem to remove the oil. A less "sketchy" process was to use the light mineral oil to lubricate an abrasive leveling process, similar to honing, and the oil was more easily removed. But all the reading I did pointed to removing the oil in the end, the full meaning of which I don t comprehend yet other than leaving the oil was not good somehow.
> 
> Watching to see the end results.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Dan, I did a "pseudo-French-Polish" schedule on a knob and tote I did a while back on another plane. I didn't build the coats as much as a true FP finish but I was very happy with the look and feel. Of course on a plane that I use regularly, a French Polish isn't going to hold up very long at all. But it was on a #8-sized jointer which is not one that I use frequently so I decided to experiment. I did a blog post on the finishing schedule I followed if you're interested in the process and some pics of the results. I'm actually really looking forward to the next project that is appropriate for a French Polish finish so I can go at it full-tilt  I'm looking forward to seeing how your organ progresses and what schedule you end up following!


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> Do the lateral adjusters even work on a Millers Falls?
> 
> - Andre


Troll.

;-)


----------



## Lazyman

Dan, I think that traditionally, people would simply wait for the wax in the shellac to separate and then decant the shellac without disturbing it. (I assume that dewax flakes are dewax more thoroughly.) Cooling it off in the freezer makes the wax congeal so that you can separate without the wax getting mixed back into the shellac but freezing is also supposed to cause the wax to settle out more quickly and completely than just sitting it on the shelf for a while. I have never tried this mind you because I buy dewaxed flakes these days and mix my own in small batches but I've got a can of Zinsser on the shelf so maybe I will try it with a few ounce of it.


----------



## HokieKen

I bought this MF utility knife off Ebay because I don't have one and it looked like it was in good shape and came with the original (badly damaged) box. And the price was right.


















Turns out it's NOS with the original blades still inside in the oil paper  Score!


----------



## bandit571

Was in use, today..









Millers Falls No. 11..
.









Along with…









The Heft & Hubris No. 8c…..neither were much of a Cardio Workout..compared to the 2 Disston saws….









Both are D-8s…









One a Rip, the other a Panel saw…


----------



## Mosquito

Nice score Kenny, the shape of that knife looks pretty comfy too


----------



## HokieKen

You ready to be rid of that pesky #11 Bandit? ;-) The only Type one I have is my #11 and it bugs me so I'm on the lookout for a nice T2.


----------



## EricFai

Kenny, for some reason I don't think Bandit will part with it. He has to much fun using the planes.

And a great score on that utility knife.


----------



## Lazyman

Mine shows a little more use and has no box but it was only a buck.


----------



## HokieKen

I was on the lookout for one along those lines Nathan. Notw posted a Stanley that he painted and polished up a while back and I was going to do the same with a Millers Falls because I liked his so much. But then it showed up in such nice shape, I'm not gonna mess with it. So I'm still keeping any eye out for a beater


----------



## DavePolaschek

Just a reminder that there's one week and one day left to sign up for this year's Secret Santa - I've currently got 11 names.


----------



## Lazyman

Yeah, I've been thinking about something similar to the one Notw did myself.


----------



## Notw

> Yeah, I ve been thinking about something similar to the one Notw did myself.
> 
> - Lazyman


Oh no, what did I do?


----------



## bandit571

Still in use, this morning…









Results?









As for the lid?









Although…Heft & Hubris still had some work to do…









Twas a busy morning…


----------



## RWE

> Yeah, I ve been thinking about something similar to the one Notw did myself.
> 
> - Lazyman
> 
> Oh no, what did I do?
> 
> - Notw


Would you please repost or provide a link to this plane. I keep reading the thread and keep wondering what I missed. The search features are not helping.

Link or pictures please sir. Enquiring Minds Want to Know.


----------



## HokieKen

Post that thing up again Notw. I started to look back for it but I can't recall how long ago you posted it.


----------



## Notw

Will do as soon as someone fills me in on which thing we are talking about??

Feels kind of like my wife telling me 'you know what you did' and I never know what I did.


----------



## EricFai

Notw, I hear that comment frequently, and we are not even legally married. Granted going on 15 years.


----------



## HokieKen

> Will do as soon as someone fills me in on which thing we are talking about??
> 
> Feels kind of like my wife telling me 'you know what you did' and I never know what I did.
> 
> - Notw


The Stanley utility knife you painted and polished up. Wasn't that you?


----------



## Notw

Alright finally found the original post



> Not sure if this counts as a restoration as much as it does a transformation since it technically didn t need restoring. I bought a Stanley No. 199 utility knife after seeing a guy named Matt Lepper on Instagram (thetoolengraver) show some of his engravings on one. The knife is made of aluminum and comes painted in a matte gray so first step was paint removal and filing all the rough casting as smooth as possible. Next I sanded from 150 to 1,000 grit then polished with white compound and red rouge. The paint was done by hand with a tiny brush and Testors model paints. Thinking about doing another one and using different paints, I didn t like the way the Testors came out.
> 
> Enough yapping, here is a picture offline of the knife before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here is after I finished playing with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Notw


----------



## RWE

that is pretty. Now I need to find a Keen Kutter or Sargent model.


----------



## HokieKen

> Funny that you commented on my tote and knob just now Devin  I was just about to post about them.
> 
> So I put 3 or 4 coats of shellac on those and wet sanded them and had a nice seal coat. Then I switched to poly. I know some people have trouble with poly curing on oily woods like Cocobolo but I thought the shellac would make it fine. So I started with 3 thin coats of wipe-on poly. The curing times were a lot longer than normal but it's summer in VA so even in a conditioned space that's not too unusual. But after tge third coat took several days to cure to the point it wasn't tacky, I decided to switch to spraying. So I wiped them down witn MS and rubbed them out with 0000 steel wool and sprayed a light coat. That was 10 days ago. This morning they look like this and are still tacky to the touch. Like really tacky.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grrrr. So I wiped the knob down with MS and let it flash off and I got this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The finish is dull on most of the part but there are some glossy spots where I assume the poly did cure so didn't come off? I've wiped it down 3x and my rag is coming off clean. There is no tackiness.
> 
> So looking for suggestions on how to proceed? Should I sand back to bare wood and start over? If so, should I just give up on the poly? (I'm trying to replicate Sansoo's finishes which is why I'm using it). Wet sand lightly and try another coat of poly? I'm more converned with appearance than efficiency on these so even labor-intensive suggestions are welcome!
> 
> - HokieKen


Quick update. I've left these all week untouched after wiping them down with MS several times last weekend. There is no tackiness and I can't detect any oil that's risen to the surface. The gloss is still "blotchy" where the poly cured in some places but not others.

I'm considering two options for next step:

Sand with 600 grit to degloss and even out the sheen then wipe down with MS and spray another coat of poly and see if it cures in a reasonable time.
Sand with 600 grit, apply another coat of shellac but not sand it back, then try another coat of poly. The goal being an additional seal coat allows the poly to adhere uniformly and without reacting to oil in the wood.

Opinions?

Will also add that I sprayed a coat of poly on a piece of scrap maple and wiped a coat on another piece earlier this week and both cured to touch within a few hours. So I don't think there's anything wrong with the poly itself.


----------



## Lazyman

Did you try spraying the poly over shellac as a test? Before I added another coat of shellac, I would see if that is what made the poly take so long to cure.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Kenny, if your shellac is curing, that should serve great as a primer under the poly. But if it's got wax and/or is old and doesn't cure right, it'll make things worse.

I don't sand shellac back much. I just use a piece of balled-up grocery bag to burnish the surface, which knocks down any dust nibs and seems to work great for me. Sanding, I always had to worry about being too aggressive. 0000 steel wool should be gentle enough, but give a brown paper bag a try, maybe?


----------



## HokieKen

I did not put shellac under the poly on the scrap pieces. That's a good point. And my shellac is not dewaxed so that's another good point.

I think I'll just proceed with sanding and another coat of poly. If that doesn't cure, I'll sand back to bare wood and re-evaluate at that point. May as well take the shellac out of the equation at this point. Thanks!


----------



## Lazyman

The Zinsser shellac definitely starts to go bad if not used within about 2 or 3 years which is why I started mixing my own in small batches. The dewaxed flakes turn out to be much cheaper, especially when you end up throwing away a can of shellac that is over half full.


----------



## Mosquito

I've had 2 cans of Zinnser sanding sealer (dewaxed shellac) leak through the bottom seam of the can after a year or two. I always keep it in Mason jars now as a result, and it seems to last a bit better that way too.

If I'm not being lazy, I mix my own as well, but it's a lot easier to just pop a jar open and start finishing lol


----------



## HokieKen

I buy Zissners out of pure convenience and I put the purchase date on the lid and toss it after 2 years to be safe. The can I have now is less than 12 months old. And I didn't know the "sanding sealer" was dewaxed. I may have to get that next time.


----------



## DevinT

Acetone removes shellac really well. Just sayin'

Wow that utility knife is really somethin'


----------



## controlfreak

I bought a nice looking compass plane. Not sure why but they look cool and I didn't have one.


----------



## theoldfart

CF, they are fun to use.


----------



## DavePolaschek

If you get a small magnetic stirrer, mixing up a batch of shellac is almost as easy as opening a can, and you don't have to worry about it being expired before you open it the first time. I go through *pounds* of shellac flakes in a year now because it's just so easy to reach over and grab the salsa jar full of shellac that's sitting on the magnetic stirrer.


----------



## corelz125

Kenny this plane is a user or a you're going to be taking it out for a night around town, little dinner, catch a show.


----------



## bandit571

This Marking Knife seems to fit my hand..









Despite Uncle Arthur (itis)


----------



## HokieKen

I'm going a little prettier on these Corelz. It'll be a user but I don't foresee the #2-size seeing a lot of action. I like my regular-use gals a lil on the hefty side ;-)

I sanded them back with 400 yesterday enough to even out the sheen but not all the way to bare wood and sprayed another light coat of poly. The knob cured in a few hours. Spots on the tote are still tacky this morning though. I'm pretty convinced that it has something to do with my shellac. Either I sanded back to bare wood in spots and the oil in the wood affects the poly in those spots or the shellac not being dewaxed is the root of the problem. I think tbe tote will get sanded back to square one and started over with dewaxed shellac. The knob seems to be good to go so I'm just gonna continue building coats on it and see what happens. I have several sets of these to make from this Cocobolo so I really want to nail down a good finishing schedule.


----------



## HokieKen

Finally got this Millers Falls 56 back in business. The blade required a lot of work so I've been kinda putting it off. But she's got new paint and lost a load of rust and she looks and works great 


















I traded off my 60-1/2 a while back thinking I would get this one set up sooner rather than later. So I've been without a low-angle block for a while now. And let me tell you, I've noticed its absence!


----------



## KentInOttawa

Over the last few days I've modified a shooting board so that I could shave the sides of a strip of Purple Heart to fit in a groove for my new saw till. The strip will act like a plate rail, turning the top saw support into a very shallow shelf. It should be big enough for pill bottles filled with shavings, wedges and small pieces (eg- walnut, Purple Heart, etc.), as well as for toothpicks and pieces of wax.










It worked well enough but V2.0, when it eventually gets built, will be longer as will the shims for under the workpiece. Regardless of the fixture's shortcomings, it was nice to be able to plane such a small piece without trying to find a way to clamp it.

Once the Purple Heart was shaved and fitted to the groove, I used the bench's built-in clamp for the glue-up.










I used a number 6 round (I think it was a 6) to make a bullnose on the now-secured (glued) Purple Heart. A rasp was used to round over the ends and a 60 1/2 was used to smooth out the rasp marks. In hindsight, I should have used a file to smooth out the rasp marks.



















It has been a pleasure to learn and use the wooden rounds. I just need to forget all the handtool lessons from Looney Tunes and remember to go slowly and make shallow cuts.


----------



## sansoo22

A set of Marsh handles I did this week as a test run using shellac under poly. I think they came out rather nice altho I have no idea what species these handles are. They came of a Marsh m4-1/2.









And here is the big orange store grade products I used to achieve that result.









I think I put a total of 7 coats of shellac on before switching over to poly. I did 3 coats shellac and then lightly sanded with 400 grit. If any brown dust showed on my sandpaper I sprayed 2 more coats and lightly sanded again. I wanted to ensure the seal coat was a 100% seal so the poly wasn't coming in contact with bare wood.

I did this as a trial run for some cocobolo handles I'm going to be working on this weekend. I have no clue as to the longevity of the finish but I think it came out nice.


----------



## HokieKen

Looks mighty good Sansoo!

I took a break from wood bits to paint some stuff. Got my 67 router plane looking like it should have to begin with ;-)


----------



## sansoo22

Nice work Ken. Glad to see the "leather stamp" method worked that well. I will have to remember that trick next time I need to do raised lettering like that.


----------



## corelz125

Nice grain on that Marsh tote. Really stands out.


----------



## HokieKen

Actually it didn't  I tried it but it didn't work well. I ended up just using a small model brush.


----------



## Lazyman

I bid on a Fulton 3708 on ebay today and a shill bidder ran up the price with $3 increments a few seconds apart. As soon as they exceeded my bid, they retracted their last bid 2 minutes later. That really chaps my 4$$. When I looked that the bidder's history, they had 13 retracted bids in the last 30 days and 63 in the last 12 months.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Kenny, my MF 56B is the only plane I have ever dropped while using it. And I dropped it twice that same day. Both times I lucked out, no damage. It's a small son-a-gun and hard to hold onto.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nathan, is the shill bidder thing happening a lot nowadays? The last time I bid on an item, been a month or so back, I kind of suspicioned that someone was just running me up, After a couple times, I dropped out. I guess I should have watched it to the end to see what that person actually did. I have never tried to look at another bidders bid history. I assume that info is accessed by clicking on their user name?


----------



## Lazyman

I haven't been bidding much lately but I have suspected it a few times in the past. I have never had one where I was the only real bidder AND they retracted the winning bid. This was pretty blatant if you ask me. The auction ended yesterday and it had one bid for the the starting price. I bid about $15 over and took the lead with $1 over the opening bid. About an hour before the end, a new bidder came in and bid $3 more and repeated every few seconds until their bid beat mine and them retracted their last bid. I actually chatted online with an eBay rep and they agreed it looked suspicious and said that they would open an investigation, not that I will ever know if they actually do anything. I think that having an account that has been active for 18 years helped my argument, not to mention that bidder has so many retracted bids. Not wanting to reward this behavior, I contacted the seller and told them that unless they want to retract all of the illegal shill bids and sell the plane for my last bid before the shill bidder came in, they can cancel my purchase. Of course if eBay doesn't really do anything about it, it won't make any difference.


----------



## HokieKen

Speaking of 3708. I finished painting mine yesterday. Black and red sure is purrdy together!


----------



## EricFai

Kenny, well done. Is that the one you made the know an tote for?


----------



## HokieKen

Yep that's the one Eric. Speaking of…. I sanded the knob and tote back to bare wood yesterday and wiped them down with DNA then put on a light coat of wipe-on poly. Last night both seemed fully cured. So I put a second light coat on them. This morning, the knob seems fine but the tote has some spots that are still very tacky to the touch. So I don't think poly directly on the Cocobolo is the answer. I think the next step is to get some dewaxed shellac and apply several coats as a sealer then repeat the poly. I could just switch over to lacquer but at this point it's a learning exercise. I have a good bit of this same Cocobolo left and several more sets of plane handles to replace so it's worthwhile to figure out a finishing schedule now. I could switch to lacquer. But like I said before, Sansoo's results inspire me and having the protection of poly on regular users is appealing as well.


----------



## RWE

> Speaking of 3708. I finished painting mine yesterday. Black and red sure is purrdy together!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


I am a Red and Black guy myself. I have that economy MIllers Falls plane to do. What color/brand of Red did you use. I use the Duplicolor Semi-Gloss Black on the body, which seems to be a standard.


----------



## bandit571

Couldn't find a Roxton Pond made screwdriver…to go with the Stanley 45, Type 20…but…









I think this Millers Falls No. 6 will do the job, just fine….


----------



## HokieKen

> Speaking of 3708. I finished painting mine yesterday. Black and red sure is purrdy together!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> I am a Red and Black guy myself. I have that economy MIllers Falls plane to do. What color/brand of Red did you use. I use the Duplicolor Semi-Gloss Black on the body, which seems to be a standard.
> 
> - RWE


That's Rustoleum rust-prevent enamel in red RWE. I prefer the way Duplicolor Ford Red goes on. It seems like it's eadier to get a smooth finish. But the Rustoleum color is a good match and I've never had any issues with it adhering. I finished that can yesterday though and I'll be restocking the Duplicolor.


----------



## RWE

I had a video pop up on YouTube yesterday. A fellow had visual type studies of Stanley planes. I had never seen his videos before, so I pulled out my oldest Stanley, which I thought was a Type 8. The video was very informative and detailed enough to clarify various identifying features that I had missed in my previous examination.

If you have seen them, no big news, but if not, they are very helpful. Just Plane Fun Type 5-8

Turns out the plane was a Type 7, had the S foundry mark on the bed. What had thrown me was the B mark on the bottom of the frog. My conclusion was that it was a late run of the 7 series and it wound up with a B frog, Also there was no space between No. and 6 like you would see on the Type 8.

So check Just Plane Fun in YouTube where they have 3 or 4 types compared in each series. It seems easier than the flow chart types of typing techniques.










Having just Stanley on the iron is a "normal" variation in type 7's and I think I remember type 8's.


----------



## corelz125

RWE that's Micheal Jenks. He sells tons of parts. He has a FB page.


----------



## RWE

> RWE that s Micheal Jenks. He sells tons of parts. He has a FB page.
> 
> - corelz125


I gathered he was a parts guy. If his prices are better than mjdParts on Ebay, I would like that. I don't frequent Facebook so I had not heard about his page there.

The visual type studies are a nice way to "type" a plane and it gives him some advertising as well, so that is all good. I don't like the idea of taking a plane and breaking it down for parts money however. But if you need a part, that is one way to find it I guess.


----------



## corelz125

His prices are better than MJD. He has an eBay page also. From what I've seen he doesn't chop shop planes for parts like MJD does.


----------



## bandit571

In use, this morning…









Have 2 bevels to plane..









And..









Millers Falls No. 11, Type 2


----------



## TedT2

> His prices are better than MJD. He has an eBay page also. From what I've seen he doesn't chop shop planes for parts like MJD does.
> 
> - corelz125


I would say that he doesn't chop them. He buys a lot of parts planes and rust buckets. He also sells complete planes. I have followed him on FB.


----------



## sansoo22

> His prices are better than MJD. He has an eBay page also. From what I've seen he doesn't chop shop planes for parts like MJD does.
> 
> - corelz125


He will scavenge off of complete planes from time to time….at least he's done it for me before. Even when he's willing to scavenge its off user grade tools and not stripping down collector grade tools…which is how I assume MJD gets so many quality parts.

About the only time I purchase from MJD anymore is when I'm looking for full length pre-sweetheart era irons. He seems to be the only parts dealer that usually has them on hand.

I used to buy from old Bob Kuane quite often but I don't know if he's still around. I haven't been able to get ahold of him for months.


----------



## Mosquito

Decided to add the 4th shelf (lower left) back in last night for some of the smaller/shorter planes on display. Did some other rearranging as well, and now I've got a little more room . Thinking about some under cabinet lights under the shelves… I've already got a spare set, now that I think of it


----------



## Notw

how do you keep dust off of them on open shelves?


----------



## bandit571

Difference between a Stanley No. 8c…and a Stanley No. 3, Type 11…









About 2 miles….









Gave this a try, for today…









Right down to the correct iron….


----------



## Notw

you really have to see the #8 next to another plane to appreciate it's size


----------



## Mosquito

> how do you keep dust off of them on open shelves?
> 
> - Notw


Occasional air hose dusting… Namely I don't. Same with my open bench plane till behind me at the bench too. I'd love to get things behind glass, but that's an expense I haven't decided to drop yet.

My set of #45's are behind glass though, and I've thought about condensing that down to make room for the rest of the combination planes too, but I kinda like the way they're arranged, and each one has a light directly above it in the current configuration


----------



## KentInOttawa

> how do you keep dust off of them on open shelves?
> 
> - Notw





> Occasional air hose dusting… Namely I don t. Same with my open bench plane till behind me at the bench too. I d love to get things behind glass, but that s an expense I haven t decided to drop yet.
> 
> My set of #45 s are behind glass though, and I ve thought about condensing that down to make room for the rest of the combination planes too, but I kinda like the way they re arranged, and each one has a light directly above it in the current configuration
> 
> - Mosquito


+1 on Mos' solution. Every time that I put something behind a door or in a drawer, I tend to lose it and spend a lot of time searching for it when I need it. As a bonus, I tend to wipe my tools down with an oiled (BLO) cloth or some wax more often because they are dusty when I pull them out. The cleanest ones are the ones most recently used.










Despite all of that, these had the dust blown off of them this morning, just before I did some work directly above them.


----------



## EricFai

The air compressor works great, that's what I use in the shop. Occasionally use the leaf blower with the overhead open.


----------



## Notw

> The air compressor works great, that s what I use in the shop. Occasionally use the leaf blower with the overhead open.
> 
> - Eric


I used to do this twice a year, I would drag everything on wheels out of the shop, blow the shop out and then blow off each tool individually.


----------



## rad457

Well the overhead door has not opened for many years, too much wood piled up against it Turn the Dust collector on open a few ducts, crank up the overhead filter, an strap on a N95 then head in with the Leaf blower every spring.
After building a box for the #45 I had to buy another user just to sit under the bench as an occasional user? LOL! then a #46(2 now) then a Record #050, wish I could find more use for them.


----------



## theoldfart

Don't forget the 405 Andre'!


----------



## EricFai

I'll take the air hose after a lot of heavy cutting, before the tools start to bind up from the dust.


----------



## rad457

> Don't forget the 405 Andre'!
> 
> - theoldfart


Maybe? Wood handle might be nice running out of room under the bench No room for bigger bench so may need bigger Shop?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Well, sign-up for this year's Secret Santa closed on Friday. If you were waffling and simply must join late, I plan to send out the names this afternoon, so you still have a couple hours to email me.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Names for the Secret Santa have been sent via email (or PM).

If you signed up and didn't get an email from [email protected], check your spam folder. If you didn't sign up, better luck next year!


----------



## corelz125

Dave is running this thing with an iron fist. Got my email Thanks


----------



## DavePolaschek

For those who are worried about finding something "good enough" for $50, I should mention that thinking outside the box is good.

In the past month, I've passed on a beautiful transitional jack plane (because I have a nice one already from last year's Santa), a pair of transitional smoothers (one looked like it needed new wood, but the other looked pretty good as-was), a set of *three* complete block planes (at least one of them would be a great present after some cleanup, and that leaves you with two for future years), and a few other goodies on eBay. All would've met the $50 spending limit. There was also a matched hollow & round that went by that looked like they'd be pretty easy to rehab.


----------



## bandit571

Between now and shipping date…I have the West Liberty, OH. Tractor Fest on Labor Day Weekend…usually 1 to 2 MILES of vendors out at the Lions' Park east of town on St Rt 245…...Usually a VERY good source of Vintage tools…including Hand Planes….may have to do a bit of shopping? Then a bit of Rehab before shipping…


----------



## HokieKen

Got my victim.


----------



## TedT2

Lol…got mine as well…should be fun


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

My Jock is certainly a victim… feeling pressure…

In the meantime, a working bench is a happy bench. And the planes were pisitively giddy.



















And yes, call me crazy.










Told my wife I was using it, and she said "What's the point of having it and not using it?" Sweet….

Sharpened it up, figure out the adjuster and went to town on nice, fluffy shavings while make a board smooth as my bottom. ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

Hold up, Smitty, that doesn't look like your dark handled Lie-Nielsen… Did you?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Not from Leach, but yes.


----------



## Mosquito

Hot damn, congrats on the acquisition!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It was 'of my dreams,' as they say. Thanks!


----------



## corelz125

Christmas in July. Very nice Smitty


----------



## HokieKen

Yowza Smitty! Nice score 

Last time I wanted a board as smooth as my bottom I had to hunt through a firewood pile.


----------



## theoldfart

Nice to see a good plane get a great forever home Smitty.

Gotta research my victim and the hunt's on!


----------



## Notw

Quick design question on the hand plane till I am building. My thought was to build a 4 sided box out of plywood with box joints, add a back and then add an angled board for the planes to sit against (like most designs out there). My question is on how did most of you go about attaching the angled board to the "box", did you simply screw through the 'box' into the angled board? Create dados in the sides and bottom for the angled board to sit in? Pocket holes and screws? Something else fancy I haven't even thought of?


----------



## Mosquito

I skipped the back panel on mine, because I figured I'd never need it if I'm putting the planes on an angle anyway.

I glued and screwed some supports inside the frame, which I then glued the plane till panel to


----------



## HokieKen

I think I cut dados for the angled board on mine but can't recall right off. I do know that I just used two sides and an angle board. No top or bottom since I wasn't adding doors or shelves or anything.


----------



## Mosquito

The brad nails are hidden by the planes once it's populated, and were just for clamping until the glue dried. There's not much weight on the back piece in mine, as all but the 4 and 4-1/2 rest on the bottom, and only lean on the angle piece


----------



## EricFai

I was thinking king about a back, but after see yours Mos, think I'll just use that for French cleats. Still want the angled face and I can use blocks to support.


----------



## Notw

Mos i'm assuming you attached the bracing pieces from the inside to the exterior box so there are no exposed fastners on the side?


----------



## Lazyman

I'm curious, Mos. Why did you put the tote towards the top?


----------



## Mosquito

That is correct, they're glued to the sides, and a handful of brad nails in to the sides from the inside of the case.

I was planning to inset a french cleat on this one, until I decided to stack them so I could use a scrap of oak veneer plywood (1/4", by the way). So now it's not quite wide enough to reach 2 studs on a french cleat if it were hidden by the case. So I'd just end up surface mounting the french cleat and a spacer block on the bottom instead.

For now, though, it's sitting on a platform on top of my #45 display cabinet


----------



## Mosquito

> I m curious, Mos. Why did you put the tote towards the top?
> 
> - Lazyman


That is a fantastic question lol I've been asked that about my main plane till too. 
There's two reasons I have currently

When I first made that original till, it was on the floor, so it was easier to grab the planes by the tote with them all tote up. Since that's what I got used to, that's just how it's stayed since
I like that it gets the "front wall" of the planes a little further from the front edge of the till. In this example, if the totes were down, the #5 and #5-1/2 and possibly #6 would have dictated that the case would have had to be wider, or the angle of the back steeper. With the knobs down, where the angled panel is closest to the door, it helps get the totes, irons, and lateral adjusters further in to the case for the shorter planes


----------



## corelz125

Smitty can we get a full photo shoot of that thing?


----------



## RWE

Speaking of Christmas Swap victims. Sorry, but I could not do this to a fellow Lumberjock.

I have a collection of Deplorables, but this is may be so bad that adding it would make the other Deplorables embarrassed. It is a Deplorable Deplorable Squared.

I am guessing it may the last run for Montgomery Ward/Lakeside before they folded up sales. Got to be late 60's or 70's by appearance. If anyone knows feel free to clarify. It is a rebranded Gull Wing Defiance: Lakeside. At $25, I could not stomach to pull the trigger. Ugly.

Get the women and children out of the room:


----------



## RWE

I passed on this one as well. I am guessing a Union after the Stanley acquisition. What puzzles me is the lateral adjust lever. It seemed that the lateral adjuster would move the depth setting pin from side to side and therefore move the iron. Either that, or it was missing a piece. I guess I will have to research that style of lateral unless someone is familiar with it.

It had a low knob, but a thin iron. Just could not decide what it was, but in any case, I did not need another Jack.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> - RWE


Now that I've seen a hand plane in John Deere livery, my life is complete.


----------



## RWE

> Now that I ve seen a hand plane in John Deere livery, my life is complete.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Kent


I may be quite likely that there was a marketing plane around that idea. Get your John Deere styled plane. Seems plausible.


----------



## EricFai

I was thinking John Deer also.


----------



## theoldfart

Desecration is putting that iron on perfectly good vinyl


----------



## BlasterStumps

Is that Deere a "B"?


----------



## Hammerthumb

> Desecration is putting that iron on perfectly good vinyl
> 
> - theoldfart


+1


----------



## theoldfart

Hello Paul, how's by you?


----------



## RWE

> Desecration is putting that iron on perfectly good vinyl
> 
> - theoldfart


Hey! That was mostly "country" vinyl. I am a folk/Americana/Rock n Roll and Blues guy.

*No desecration. *

Country died when Hank died. Besides that country stuff had plastic wrapped around the albums. Give an "ole boy" a cowboy hat, make up some lyrics about trucks beer and country girls and let him sing through his nose and you have a country star.

That Antique Mall had the worst music being piped in. Some girl band playing "Born on the Bayou" by Creedence and it was awful. One horrible song after another. It all went well with the John Deere plane, kind of cheap and extremely poor taste.


----------



## donwilwol

> I passed on this one as well. I am guessing a Union after the Stanley acquisition. What puzzles me is the lateral adjust lever. It seemed that the lateral adjuster would move the depth setting pin from side to side and therefore move the iron. Either that, or it was missing a piece. I guess I will have to research that style of lateral unless someone is familiar with it.
> 
> It had a low knob, but a thin iron. Just could not decide what it was, but in any case, I did not need another Jack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE


That's a Birmingham B Plane. You probably should have brought that home!


----------



## RWE

> - RWE
> 
> That s a Birmingham B Plane. You probably should have brought that home!
> 
> - Don W


All hope is not lost. I will call the Antique Mall and get them to hold it for me.

I guess the strange lateral adjuster is the key to identifying it. The tote has issues, but the front knob was salvageable.


----------



## donwilwol

you always, always, always buy it if you don't know what it us.

Yes, you wind up like me with a whole bunch of crap you can't get rid of, but that's what it is all about. Man with the most crap when he dies wins!!!!


----------



## RWE

> you always, always, always buy it if you don t know what it us.
> 
> Yes, you wind up like me with a whole bunch of crap you can t get rid of, but that s what it is all about. Man with the most crap when he dies wins!!!!
> 
> - Don W


'There is one rule that overrides that Don. Always, always, always buy it if you don't know what it is, *unless momma is around. *

Momma was around that day.


----------



## EricFai

That's an interesting theory, I'll have to keep that in mind the time a go to the flea market or antique shop.


----------



## 33706

> you always, always, always buy it if you don t know what it us.
> 
> Yes, you wind up like me with a whole bunch of crap you can t get rid of, but that s what it is all about. Man with the most crap when he dies wins!!!!
> 
> - Don W


*
Amen to that, Don!!*
I've dabbled in antiques since high school, er, 50 + years ago. Doing the flea markets and sntiques shows, I learned to deal with the bottom of the deck first. Save your choice, premium items for later and develop a righteous inventory for the big shows…later. Turn over that ratty, low value inventory!!

Same with the planes. I had about 530 of 'em, and began peddling them on Ebay a year or two ago. Starting with the hideous Parplus, Este, Brillant and Handyman planes, and slowly working my way up toward the upscale planes. But that biz model blew up in my face with a drastic change in Ebay controls.

There will always be buyers out there who are interested in bottom-tier planes, with that said, you can curate your finer planes and tools for your permanent collection to be the envy of others!


----------



## RWE

Well Don, you guilted me into buying that B-Plane. I called and they still had it. I will pick it up on the next trip north to visit relatives.

I am a "if it is unusual, buy it" type of guy. In that case, I thought it was certainly different, but the last Union I bought had a nice thick iron, so I was thinking this B-Plane might have been a later Union and with a bad tote and thin blade, I second guessed myself and left it.

I have made amends. The Plane Gods are celebrating. B-Plane is soon to be in the house.


----------



## Hammerthumb

> Hello Paul, how's by you?
> 
> - theoldfart


Doing fine Kevin. Enjoying the current weather as spring was cold and was continually raining. Summer is nice, but current workload has me busy. Can almost see retirement. Two more years or so.
Hope all is well and you're staying safe.


----------



## HokieKen

This is a bit off-topic but I figure this thread is probably the one most likely to have an answer  I recently acquired a NOS Millers Falls utility knife. It has the original blades in the handle but I'd like to preserve them rather than use them. I do want to use the knife though. I thought standard blades would fit but I was mistaken. It uses a 3-notch style of blade:









I can't seem to find that style blade in less than a 50 pack from a company called Allway. Since I only have the one knife that takes this style, I hate to spend that much on that many blades that I'll likely never use. Especially not knowing anything about the quality of the brand. Anyone got recommendations on a source? Or better yet, got a supply of this style blade you'd be willing to sell me 5-10 pcs of?


----------



## Mosquito

What's the blade lock mechanism look like? Does it have to be 3-notch? Wondering if a 4-notch would work (Irwin and Lenox make 4-slot that I'm aware of)


----------



## Mosquito

Amazon has Amazon Basic blades that look just like the Allway in a 5-pack. 
They also have Allway blades in a 5-pack as well

I'd assume they're one in the same, looking at them


----------



## Lazyman

I just realized that my MF utility knife is shaped differently than yours, Kenny, both inside and out. Has a more rounded butt (and who doesn't like that .



















Mine came with a bunch of Stanley 2 notch blades inside and they seem to work just fine as only one of the notches is engaged. Even though there looks like 2 on mine only one is tall enough (the front one on the bottom half in the picture) that it would actually be used. I assume that the multiple notches are because the blade doesn't retract and the extra notches gives you 3 positions you can set the bade. I wonder which one is older?


----------



## Mosquito

Looking at it now after seeing yours Nathan, I see that it doesn't retract, so I'd be surprised if the notches mattered all that much, as long as you got enough projection for it to be usable.


----------



## HokieKen

Mine actually is the same as yours Nathan. That picture I posted earlier is one I just grabbed online because it showed the blades. I tried the 2 notch blade on mine but it wouldn't fit. Maybe I need to try the other position? I'll check it out again tonight. Thanks!

*Edit to add*: Now that I think about it, I know for sure both of those pins are tall enough to engage the notches in mine. I installed one of the original blades and the 2 bosses engaged in 2 of the notches giving 2 possible positions. But with a 2 notch blade, the distance between the pins was too close and it couldn't engage both notches. I wonder if a PO may have filed down one of the bosses in your knife so they could used the standard 2 notch blades?

Thanks Mos, I looked at Amazon but didn't see the Allway 5 pack. That'll fit the bill fine assuming they fit


----------



## corelz125

A nice qswo KK cabinet came up today on the CIHI facebook group.


----------



## donwilwol

if its just for use, can't you cut another notch? Make one long notch? Something like that?


----------



## RWE

> A nice qswo KK cabinet came up today on the CIHI facebook group.
> 
> - corelz125


Can you do a link to the page. I don't use Facebook much and it is all a bit of a muddle to figure out the navigation and such.

I am planning to build a cabinet (maybe in my next lifetime) and would like to see a vintage one.


----------



## HokieKen

> if its just for use, can t you cut another notch? Make one long notch? Something like that?
> 
> - Don W


Yeah I can. I just have to enlarge one of the notches. It's just kinda a pain to do. It will likely go that way though. At least for the first blade. The 5 pack Mos found is worth the expense though.


----------



## bandit571

Seen while shopping at a local Antique Mall….just before I found a decent eggbeater drill…

It did have a red frog…..had a solid Depth adjuster wheel…chrome. Had the Millers Falls lateral lever…and the front knob's ribbed location…and a RED one piece Lever cap with SEARS in painted on black lettering….$25 + tax was just a bit too much…settled for the drill, instead..









G-P No. 5-1/2 B…..$10+ tax…


----------



## Lazyman

I think you are right Kenny. Under magnification, I can see what looks like very fine marks from a file or something on the second boss. Whoever made the mod did a pretty nice job of it and it works just fine. The blade is held firmly and doesn't move with just one notch engaged. I guess that shouldn't be a surprise since the version you pictured above only has only one as well.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah if it wasn't for the fact that mine is NOS, I'd probably do the same mod to it Nathan. But even though it's of no particular collector value, I'm hesitant to alter it. I think I'll just do as Don suggested and widen the notch on a regular blade and see if I even use the knife enough to worry about it. If it turns out I do, I'll order some of the Allway blades.


----------



## Lazyman

I would not modify it either. I actually reach for this one quite a bit for some reason ever since I got it. It feels pretty comfy in the hand. I guess I need to do some rehab work on it to make it pretty now.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep! I hadn't seen that video so thanks for the link  That's pretty much exactly what I intended to do when I bought this one. But then when it showed up and had never been used, I decided to leave it alone. I'm still watching Ebay for a beater that I can polish up and paint though.

As far as actual use goes, I'm not sure how often I'll use it with the fixed non-retractable blade. Leaving that laying on the bench is asking for trouble. And I have a folding lockback utility knife that lives on my bench now that I use constantly. So the MF may end up living in its box more often than seeing action…


----------



## bandit571

Spent $8, this morning..









V Line plane, 6-1/4" Draw Knife, No.51 Spokeshave..









Fellow said make an offer on all 3 items….handed him $8, and load these up….not too bad of a morning? No camera is taking some getting used to….


----------



## RWE

> Spent $8, this morning..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> V Line plane, 6-1/4" Draw Knife, No.51 Spokeshave..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fellow said make an offer on all 3 items….handed him $8, and load these up….not too bad of a morning? No camera is taking some getting used to….
> 
> - bandit571


I have that V-Line plane. Millers Falls 900 I believe. I spent a lot of time looking for a paint to use on it. Wound up in a Hobby shop buying paint used on models. It was named "battleship grey".

However, I will double your money and give you $4 each for the spokeshave and draw knife, and I will gladly pay the shipping cost. LOL

I have an 8 inch draw knife but don't think I have ever seen a 6 inch. Looks to be in really good shape.


----------



## rad457

Sorry Kenny, went through a few old tool box's, remember seeing some 3 notch blades some where, lot's of 2 notch? Made me realize that perhaps I need to sort, clean up some of my mess Still haven't come across the retractable knifes for the blades so some where they be hiding? LOL! went the OLFA cutter route in the early 80"s after working in a warehouse for awhile.


----------



## BlasterStumps

kenny, maybe you have already found that Lennox has a 3-pk of blades with four slots. prime on Amazon


----------



## corelz125

See if this works for you RWE.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/CanIHaveItToolAuctions/permalink/1178181589716097/


----------



## RWE

> See if this works for you RWE.
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/CanIHaveItToolAuctions/permalink/1178181589716097/
> 
> - corelz125


Thank you sir. I am a Walnut guy, but that quarter-sawn White Oak is pretty. Very cool old box. Not sure I like the hangers and such, but it probably fit the bill back in the day.

Looks like an Stickley Arts and Crafts piece of furniture.

I have some QS Oak on hand. May think about using it on my cabinet when I build it.

Thanks for the link.


----------



## bandit571

Draw knife is a 6" P.S. & W. Co.. Has been cleaned up and sharpened. even has the oval with PEXTO inside…blade does have a slight curve to it.

Was waiting on gray paint to dry…..tote does have a name incised on the left side…W.H.KIEFABER CO. Iron had a large chip in the edge…gone now. Iron does have the Millers Falls logo….with "SOLID TOOL STEEL" 
Note: Lever cap does not have that flat steel spring. And, is a one piece. Steel hardware, slotted bolts…most of the Nickel Plate was flaking off.

Getting ready to start the rehab on the No.51 spokeshave….Film @2300hrs…


----------



## corelz125

The V Lines are in the same boat as the Handymans. They're better off being used as an anchor for the boat instead of a hand plane


----------



## bandit571

Have never had any problems with the No.900 planes….trouble began when they add that "8" in front….

Rehabs…









iron is sharp, will test it out later this week, on some Maple..









Millers Falls logo on the iron…something about Solid Tool Steel, and Made in USA..









Sole was flat, just needed to remove the rust and white paint splotches…









W. H. Kiefaber Co. of Dayton, OH.

And the rest of the crowd..









P.S. & W. Co. made the 6" draw knife…and that is a Stanley No. 51 spokeshave..









With a flat sole, and a, now, sharp iron.

Remember..these 3 tools cost me a whopping ….$8 total, this morning…so..between these 3 and that G-P No. 5-1/2B…I spent just under $20 ….....


----------



## KentInOttawa

A while ago I bought a lot of wooden planes through eBay. There were a number of hollows and rounds, but not a complete half set. Today I started going through these planes to determine just which sizes and makers' planes I had when I saw this owner's marks.










I know that it is hard to read, so I played with Google filters to show the owner's mark a little better.










T. Winkells. Is that ""THE"" Tiddley WInkells?


----------



## HokieKen

Google says "there are no search results for tiddley winkellis." So I have no idea.


----------



## rad457

> Google says "there are no search results for tiddley winkellis." So I have no idea.
> 
> - HokieKen


That's because you are not Canadian "Eh" 2nd cousin to Tiddle Winks


----------



## Notw

> Google says "there are no search results for tiddley winkellis." So I have no idea.
> 
> - HokieKen


You are braver than I am, I was too scared to google that, LOL


----------



## bandit571

Random plane photos…








Just rehabbed No. 900…going at a diagonal…panel needed flattened smooth..









Seems to work…


----------



## HokieKen

If I could get poly to cooperate with Cocobolo, this guy would be done.


----------



## Johnny7

> If I could get poly to cooperate with Cocobolo, this guy would be done.
> 
> - HokieKen


The plane (as is) looks great Kenny. If your finishing problems are not humidity-related, I would advise wiping down any tropical wood with acetone immediately before finishing. The same applies to gluing such woods.
Again, the wipe down must occur close in time to the finishing or gluing as the oils will resurface quickly.


----------



## Lazyman

Can anyone tell me what sort of extra customs related charges to expect on an eBay purchase from Canada? How do they assess and collect on something that is being shipped? Is the carrier responsible for collecting?


----------



## HokieKen

> The plane (as is) looks great Kenny. If your finishing problems are not humidity-related, I would advise wiping down any tropical wood with acetone immediately before finishing. The same applies to gluing such woods.
> Again, the wipe down must occur close in time to the finishing or gluing as the oils will resurface quickly.
> 
> - Johnny7


Thanks Johnny. My problems originated from trying to use shellac that wasn't dewaxed as grain-filler/seal coat at first. The poly wouldn't stick at all. So then I switched to dewaxed shellac and that fixed the problem except for a few spots where the poly wouldn't cure. I apparently sanded too aggressively on the seal coat in spots and the poly wouldn't cure in those spots where it was bare wood. So after adding another layer of dewaxed shellac, everything was peachy  I think I got the final coat of poly on them yesterday. I'll know for sure when I check this evening and make sure everything is smooth and even. Hopefully I'll have some completed plane pics to post later tonight.



> Can anyone tell me what sort of extra customs related charges to expect on an eBay purchase from Canada? How do they assess and collect on something that is being shipped? Is the carrier responsible for collecting?
> 
> - Lazyman


I've never had to pay any extra on shipments coming from Canada. I would think that as long as the shipper declared everything properly that it should be fine.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Well for the first time in a while I have been super motivated to get in the shop. So, my swap item is all done!


----------



## HokieKen

The cocobolo put up a good fight but I eventually won!



























This is my Frankenplane Millers Falls #7. It's a Fulton 3708 (made by Millers Falls) that I bought a frog from a #7 for. Then Mos' gifted me a genuine 1-5/8" Millers Falls iron. I milled down a lever cap from a #8 to fit and made a new tote and knob from Cocobolo. The studs and brass barrel nuts are original to the plane. So if I ever run across a #7 body, I'll have both planes complete . For now, this will fill out the till quite nicely


----------



## HokieKen

Bump to get that damn link off the page.


----------



## Mosquito

Which link, this one?



> See if this works for you RWE.
> Just kidding
> 
> - corelz125


----------



## theoldfart

Very shiny Ken, my eyes hurt!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice work Kenny. Looks very nice.


----------



## HokieKen

Mos you sunuvabitch


----------



## Lazyman

Going through some of the planes I have picked up over the last couple of years trying to figure out which ones to let go of. Finally took a look at this Dunlap 4DBB. Look like a Millers Falls 09









When I removed the frog, a previous owner had put a lift in there. A simple steel plate about 1/16" thick with a couple of holes. 









Do you think this was to increase the angle or is there some other reason someone would do that? Works about the same with or without it.


----------



## RWE

Looks good Kenny.

Mos is messing with me. Sorry but I don't do Facebook or Twitter or Instagram. Too old fashioned and too old. So getting on Facebook and finding a site would have required a bit of concentration to figure out the search engine. Corelz was a gentleman and I appreciated the link.

Mos, the communists are tracking your every move. LOL


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos you sunuvabitch
> 
> - HokieKen


haha, interestingly, I had planned to come back to edit it before the 1 hour expired. I got busy in the shop, and forgot until just now (about an hour 15 after posting the original). I hadn't navigated away yet, so it still let me click edit and save it 

You're welcome


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Looking AWESOME Kenny.


----------



## adot45

Really nice looking plane Ken, you did a great job on the wood pieces. Your tote reminds me of the Fulton #2 sized plane with the very circular shape.


----------



## EricFai

Looks great Kenny, a well done job.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks fellas! Especially you Mos ;-)



> Really nice looking plane Ken, you did a great job on the wood pieces. Your tote reminds me of the Fulton #2 sized plane with the very circular shape.
> 
> - adot45


That's actually what it is Dave. Millers Falls made the #2 sized plane for Fulton for some period of time. And I used the original knob and tote to make a template to make the replacements


----------



## HokieKen

In fact, here's a before photo when I bought the plane:


----------



## Mosquito

Glad you got through the poly finish issues, it looks really good. I'm debating doing similar with the tote and knob on my K2, so it matches the rest of my bench planes


----------



## HokieKen

> Going through some of the planes I have picked up over the last couple of years trying to figure out which ones to let go of. Finally took a look at this Dunlap 4DBB. Look like a Millers Falls 09
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I removed the frog, a previous owner had put a lift in there. A simple steel plate about 1/16" thick with a couple of holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think this was to increase the angle or is there some other reason someone would do that? Works about the same with or without it.
> 
> - Lazyman


My guess is to increase the pitch of the frog. I imagine that plate has an angle of a few degrees milled into it. The problem with making such a modification is that the toes of the frog won't seat quite right. And unless you make some washers for the frog screws that match the angle of the plate, they provide less clamping force. If you want to modify the pitch of the frog on a Bailey pattern plane, it really needs to involve machining of both the frog and the body. Don't think I haven't pondered it ;-)

The other possible reason is that somebody tried to fit a frog to that body that wasn't an intended mate and the steel plate just makes the frog fit like it should. But that is a Millers Falls made plane and the frog looks to be a Millers Falls made frog from what I can see in your picture. So I doubt that's the case.


----------



## bandit571

Had to remove one of them plates, a few years ago….a fellow could not get his #4 plane to work…..Seemed it was filling up UNDER the frog…as it no longer sat on that ramp at the back of the mouth….threw the plate away, re-installed the frog….plane worked like new. Amazing…..


----------



## Notw

Awesome looking job Ken, looks like the knob and handle were worth the hassle in the end.


----------



## HokieKen

> Glad you got through the poly finish issues, it looks really good. I m debating doing similar with the tote and knob on my K2, so it matches the rest of my bench planes
> 
> - Mosquito


DEWAXED shellac was the key. And make sure it seals 100% before you start with the poly. But, this is fresh wood. I don't imagine I would have had the same issues if these were 100-year-old handles when I started. I have to say, I do like the look of the high gloss on with the freshly painted surfaces and polished cast iron. I wasn't sure I would. I still don't particularly like the feel compared to the shellac on the last plane I did:









But I do like the look and it should give a lot more protection. So I'm a bit conflicted about how to proceed with other planes I need to replace the wood on. Do I go with the silky feel of the shellac that will require periodic maintenance since there's little protection against wear or do I go with the poly that has a good look and durable protection but doesn't feel as good in the hand? Decisions, decisions…


----------



## HokieKen

Ugh. After posting that picture^ I just now realized I painted the lateral lever rivet. How did I not notice that before? I guess I'll be scraping some paint tonight…

Some of the more observant may notice that I painted the depth adjuster fork on the 7/3708 red. That was not lazy or accidental. The frog is from a Type 1 plane and MF used a cast fork on the type ones that was painted the same color as the frog. I almost painted it black because I think it would look better. But I decided to go with the OEM scheme.


----------



## Mosquito

> DEWAXED shellac was the key. And make sure it seals 100% before you start with the poly. But, this is fresh wood. I don t imagine I would have had the same issues if these were 100-year-old handles when I started. I have to say, I do like the look of the high gloss on with the freshly painted surfaces and polished cast iron. I wasn t sure I would. I still don t particularly like the feel compared to the shellac on the last plane I did:
> 
> But I do like the look and it should give a lot more protection. So I m a bit conflicted about how to proceed with other planes I need to replace the wood on. Do I go with the silky feel of the shellac that will require periodic maintenance since there s little protection against wear or do I go with the poly that has a good look and durable protection but doesn t feel as good in the hand? Decisions, decisions…
> 
> - HokieKen


Yeah, once you said you were using regular non-dewaxed shellac, I figured dewaxed would fix it for you. And I'm right there with you on the poly vs shellac, or even just danish oil (another favorite of mine for tool handles)


----------



## Lazyman

My favorite handle finish is Tried and True Varnish oil. Not nearly as much protection as poly or maybe even shellac but just has a great feel. Easy enough to clean with some mineral spirits and apply more coats as needed, though.


----------



## Johnny7

> The cocobolo put up a good fight but I eventually won!
> 
> This is my Frankenplane Millers Falls #7. It's a Fulton 3708 (made by Millers Falls) that I bought a frog from a #7 for. Then Mos' gifted me a genuine 1-5/8" Millers Falls iron. I milled down a lever cap from a #8 to fit and made a new tote and knob from Cocobolo. The studs and brass barrel nuts are original to the plane. So if I ever run across a #7 body, I'll have both planes complete . For now, this will fill out the till quite nicely
> 
> - HokieKen


Nice work on the Frankenplane Kenny. That is Sansoo-level lustre on those knobs.
I dug up this rare photo of you (and your assistant) hard at work in the lab.


----------



## HokieKen

LOL! That's some really good photoshop work there Johnny. I almost didn't even notice! )


----------



## sansoo22

I vote use the poly handled plane in a project before you decide. I will admit it felt "gross" to me at first too. Now my hands are so used to it that anything that isn't glossy smooth feels wrong. The other advantage of the poly handles is how stupid easy to clean they are. A microfiber towel has them looking brand new with a simple wipe down.

Mos may change his stance on the poly eventually too. I know for a fact his entire set of KK bench planes have poly finished handles.


----------



## HokieKen

I definitely will Sansoo. I have handles for my 10 and 15 plane to refinish next. And those are probably my two most used planes. So I think I'll do one with poly and just hold off on the other until I decide whether I'm okay with the poly on a user or not. I know it's fine on this #7 since it's a plane that won't get used often or extensively. But my #10 touches about every piece of wood that I do so it'll be a good test subject


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, all my KK bench planes are Sansoo poly'ed. I will say that when you're not thinking about it, you probably won't notice. Though they do show dust more, so I end up blowing the dust off my planes more often (not a bad thing…) .

I wasn't saying I didn't like the polyurethane finish, just that to me I prefer the feel of other finishes, but the function of the poly finish is great. The benefits of the poly finish has kept me from even thinking about doing anything different with any of them.


----------



## HokieKen

I usually blast my planes with compressed air before I put them back in the till anyway. They're usually some gathered dust from sitting in the till and I like to make sure no residual moisture from the wood is left on the sole to cause flash rusting. So I don't foresee that being a roadblock for me. Like you said, I imagine if I don't think about it, I won't even notice.


----------



## HokieKen

Gotta have the obligatory money shots


----------



## corelz125

After I posted that link I had a feeling it was gonna be a long one. I did it from my phone so I could find the link before it got lost.


----------



## corelz125

Nice work on it Kenny. Not a fan of lacquer from the spray cans?


----------



## KentInOttawa

I was attempting to cut a rebate with a 778 today. Nothing that I could do with that plane would produce a smooth cut. So I pulled out this old woody and the rest of the rebate went beautifully. This wooden skew rebate plane was such a pleasure to use.



















I did a little search for the maker after this and discovered this page (in German).

It shows:
Wilhelm Heinrich Ingwersen (Wilhelm Heinrich Gingersen)
Born on December 5th, 1826 in Rellingen (a hamlet on the outskirts of Hamburg)
Employed in the Cathor workshop from October 26th, 1853 to April 30th, 1858.
[Hamburg] Citizenship on April 30, 1858
Died on May 5, 1893

I remember reading a while back that wooden planes made before about 1860 (IIRC) were slightly longer than planes made after that. This tracks, since this plane is about 1/2" longer than almost every other hollow, round and moulding plane that I have, and it won't fit on end in the slot for these planes in my 1860-ish tool chest. Does anyone here have a link to info about the "standard" length of wooden planes?


----------



## RWE

From a book borrowed from Don W: * Woodworking Planes A Descriptive Register of Wooden Planes* by Alvin Sellens

Page 86 on Rabbets
*
...They were made in at least 18 different widths 1/4 inch to 2 1/2 inches. The simplest types are similar to moulding planes in size: 9 1/2 inches long and 3/12 inches deep.*

Now this book is about American made planes. The earlier English and other Continental planes also had a wider chamfer on the top of the toe and heel sections. Your plane seems to have that bigger chamfer.

From what I have read, no one knows quite how to account for it, but the American made planes, even though many of the plane makers learned the craft in Europe, all seem to hit the 9.5 inch size and use narrower chamfers, so those are tells of whether the plane is European or American.

Early in American History, the English wanted the colonies to buy goods and plane making here was discouraged. So most of the American plane making comes after the revolution. There are not that many 1700's American planes. My memory is fallable, but that is what I recall in some other reading.


----------



## KentInOttawa

RWE - thank you. Most of my wooden planes are indeed 9 1/2 long, while I do have 2-3 that are 9 3/4-10" long. That 1/4-1/2" doesn't seem like much, but the wooden cover for my tool chest won't close even with the 9.75" long German (Continental) plane.


----------



## RWE

I decided to check the theory. The only "non-American" moulding type plane I have is what is called a "Continental", like you describe. It is a moving fillister with metal for the depth stop and the fence on the bottom.

Every other moving fillister I have is exactly 9.5 inches long (4 of those) and the Continental (French or German most likely, no makers mark found as yet) comes in at 9.75 inches long.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Mine are a bit mixed
Looks like the newer factory made moulding planes are 9.5, dado planes are 9.25 and everything else (except the ploughs) are about 9 - 10, but a fair chunk of them are user made, so probably not that usefull as a guide.


----------



## bandit571

Plane photo..









Doing a bit of clean-up work….Stanley No. 3, Type 11….


----------



## HokieKen

My 7's older brother just got home from uncle Sansoo's house. Yowza! That's some fantastic work )


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Well damn Kenny. I might have to reach out to uncle S and ship my two old MF planes over to him.

Excellent.


----------



## HokieKen

Highly recommended Dave.


----------



## Lazyman

It looks so shiny, I can see MY reflection in it.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I remember I was going to make eucalyptus knobs and totes for those. Once I do that I might see what he's up to.


----------



## corelz125

You started it Kenny, now all of them have to look like that.


----------



## donwilwol

I like shiny. I just hate trying to keep them shiny. How do you guys do it?


----------



## HokieKen

I don't know Don. Those are the only two I have that are that shiny and they haven't been put to work yet!


----------



## HokieKen

> You started it Kenny, now all of them have to look like that.
> 
> - corelz125


You're probably right… I was already undertaking upgrading the T3s I have to type 2 which meant replacing the steel hardware with brass and making new knobs/totes. I imagine while I'm at it now though, I'll be refreshing paint where needed and polishing up cast iron to keep them all on par  Fortunately, I did all of the functional stuff like lapping soles and fitting frogs and tuning chipbreakers to them as I got them. So any work I do will be purely cosmetic and purely because I want to and not because I need to


----------



## sansoo22

> I like shiny. I just hate trying to keep them shiny. How do you guys do it?
> 
> - Don W


Renaissance Wax on everything except handles keeps them pretty darn shiny. I use regular paste finishing wax on the handles of my personal users. After each use the bodies get wiped down with CRC 3-36 applied using a rag-in-a-can. I use the same method to apply a thin coat of oil on the iron and breaker after each sharpening.

The high touch parts like iron, breaker, and bodies will start to patina no matter what you do. Keeping them waxed and oiled just lessens it really. Once a year my users get cleaned with mineral spirits to take the wax off. I then use Flitz polish on a microfiber towel for the bodies, iron, and breaker. This step removes around 99% of any patina build up. Then its re-wax everything, oil all the threads, and enjoy your shiny planes for the next 12 months.

Its a fair amount of work but I take one weekend a year to clean and service all my tools. Hand tools on day one and power tools on day two.


----------



## Mosquito

Sansoo, do you offer a maintenance plan on your restored planes? Asking for a friend


----------



## HokieKen

He just gave you the maintenance plan Mos.


----------



## HokieKen

I got some 3 notch blades and taped the box up best I could.


----------



## Lazyman

I hope you used archive quality tape, Kenny. ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

You mean off the shelf packing tape? Yep ;-) The side facing the camera is the only side that doesn't have at least one large chunk missing. So I figured the "collector" ship has sailed…


----------



## HokieKen

Even if you didn't drill a pilot hole before you turned, as long as you have the center marks from the spur and live center, you can use those to guide the drill and tailstock and you should be able to drill a nice centered hole.


----------



## HokieKen

Oops wrong thread


----------



## bandit571

"Hide yer eyes, Mabel!" 









Stanley Defiance…..yes, I do have a spare knob….


----------



## bandit571

Work in progress….









Parts?









Waiting on the Box Project to get out of the way, so the wire wheel/buffer grinder can be used…









Sole has been sanded flat…









Sides cleaned up, replacement knob installed ( and it FITS!)









Will need a narrower brush (Brass one?) to clean out the insides better….

Stanley Defiance, a #3 size plane…


----------



## DevinT

Anybody seen those new cast bronze front knobs for Stanley planes?

Contemplating buying a couple to try.


----------



## Sylvain

> Anybody seen those new cast bronze front knobs for Stanley planes?
> 
> Contemplating buying a couple to try.
> 
> - DevinT


Might look nice but…

- Not to be used in a cold workshop.
- Not sure I want to add mass to my planes; it is tiring enough. Sharpness and lubricating the sole are the key points.


----------



## HokieKen

Some extra mass on smoothers sounds appealing to me. I like some heft so I can focus on steering rather than downforce. Ideally I'd like a 12# plane with a 3" blade that takes cuts .0002" deep


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> Anybody seen those new cast bronze front knobs for Stanley planes? - DevinT


You mean these?

First thing my brain thought was: wow, and no thank you…

- $65 for a hunk of rough cast brass?

- The quality of casting work looks marginal. There are separation (cooling) lines from bad sprue design in mold, or paused pouring. The polished versions are showing uneven rate of cooling in mold. To make pretty finished part my OCD would need to mount on metal lathe and clean it up.

- Planes were not designed for hard metal knob, especially the bases with support rings for wood knobs.
If the tall knob mounting screw gets loose, it could easily rip threads out of cast iron, or worse rip the entire area out of the base of plane. The low knob on flat base, stands best chance of not damaging the base.

- Last but not least, If all my planes were the newer blue painted type with random hardwood knobs, might need brass knobs too?

Looooool


----------



## Lazyman

BTW, I think that WbW's planes are mostly vintage planes that he has restored. He just happens to like blue paint.


----------



## donwilwol

A friend of mine made me a knob out of aluminum. I would think brass would be almost as easy. I would think any mediocre machinist with a small lathe should be able to wipe one or two up.

Unfortunately the "machinist" part leaves me out!


----------



## HokieKen

You could turn knobs from brass on a wood lathe for that matter.


----------



## bandit571

It would be the drilling out that would be the hard part…


----------



## JayT

> You could turn knobs from brass on a wood lathe for that matter.
> 
> - HokieKen


Says the guy with the metal working tools and know how.


----------



## HokieKen

Lol JayT. I actually thought about that but I'm not sure my radius turner would be able to swing that big on my little lathe. I believe I could get it done more efficiently on my wood lathe. Fortunately, I quite like my wood knobs so it's a moot issue ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Maybe scrounge the Antique Stores for Brass door knobs?

Maybe a fleet of the Clear Glass & Brass knobs?

Turns out, I already had a low knob Stanley Defiance #3 sized plane….Latest one will be a "tall" knob version….


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Hate turning brass. It's too 'sticky' or 'gummy', compared to other metals. Gives carbide inserts fits. HSS cuts it well. Can be challenge to find best rake angle and relief clearances for clean cuts on lathe, as they are different for different alloys. Brass is so strange to machine, we used 4 flute end mills for drilling holes on lathe to improve chip clearing. Brass cuts better with high feed rates and speeds with proper lubrication, much faster than steel. Making it more intimidating standing over a lathe spinning near max speed, when you don't mill it everyday. 

Brass milling is so fast; be surprised if a CNC production lathe with thru chuck feeding, couldn't make those knobs cheaper from bar stock, than making castings and machining them. Brass polishes well in the vibratory tumblers, but it contaminates the ceramic media so it can't be used on other metals. 
Challenge is you have to make many thousands of them to justify the production setup costs, unless found a shop specializing in brass production.

But then no one wants to process conventional brass due lead content, and environmental issues with disposal of lead contaminated cutting fluids and brass waste. No lead brass alloy(s) solve the environmental issues, but is more like machining copper when it comes to cutting rates and tool wear; removing the advantage of heavy lead brass. 
And now you know WHY things are NOT made from brass very often. lol

Thanks for triggering old useless data in my brain. Nice to feel the neurons firing again.


----------



## corelz125

I have one of the Stanley aluminum totes. Also a couple of rough metal knobs. Haven't tried any yet.


----------



## corelz125

Another one to the (addiction) collection . Thought this was gonna be a tough one to get. Union X 8


----------



## Sylvain

A spokeshave (#151) is a kind of plane with a short sole.
It works very well with a sharp iron. 
It has a low mass though.

The longer soles on other planes are for guiding/reference purpose.
Then one has to keep flexing to something acceptable.
see flexing experience here.

IMO
Sharpness and lubricating the sole are the key points.
My plane seems twice as sharp when I lubricate the sole.
Which means, if I forget to lubricate, resistance to movement is due to friction and not to dullness/wood hardness. 
So to feel how the iron works (without other effects), one has to lubricate the sole.

When an iron becomes dull it also looses its relief angle and will skid instead of bite in the wood. Pushing hard and flexing the plane might change the relief angle momentarily.


----------



## sansoo22

> Sharpness and lubricating the sole are the key points.
> My plane seems twice as sharp when I lubricate the sole.
> Which means, if I forget to lubricate, resistance to movement is due to friction and not to dullness/wood hardness.
> So to feel how the iron works (without other effects), one has to lubricate the sole.
> 
> - Sylvain


Do you use wax or the rag-in-a-can for lubrication? I use the rag-in-a-can myself. I have a holder made for it in my tool well on my bench. Any plane #5 or smaller I can wipe across the top of the can with one hand and go right back to work.

However I do forget sometimes and wonder how the hell a fresh iron got dull so quickly. Then I remember "duh…you forgot to oil the sole stupid"...and all is well in the world again.


----------



## controlfreak

Ha Sansoo22, As I was reading this I realized that the window parts I milled Sunday using my Stanley No. 6 that I forgot to oil it once.


----------



## HokieKen

I keep a block of paraffin in the tool well for plane soles


----------



## Lazyman

I just scribble a quick line with a block of beeswax when I realize that the sole is dragging.


----------



## Sylvain

I use the rag-in-a-can oiler.

useful not only for planes, including specialty planes, but also for saws.


----------



## Notw

Does anyone have a link to more information on the rag-in-a-can oiler?


----------



## Lazyman

Paul Sellers is where I saw the rag-in-a-can. He probably has a video too but it is basically a rolled up rag stuffed into a can with oil on it.

I think that traditionally, they used a grease pot for lubing their wooden planes. IIRC, they used tallow for that but you can use waxes instead.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> Does anyone have a link to more information on the rag-in-a-can oiler? - Notw


It's a term made more popular by Paul Sellers in his blog. It is nothing more than a rag rolled up tightly and hanging out of a small can, where you have soaked a compatible oil into the rag. Wipe an go rust protection for wood working.

Any search engine should find it Seller's blog and other versions as well.

I use paraffin wax while planing, and bowling alley or carnauba wax for rust prevention.

YMMV


----------



## bandit571

I have just a plain old candle….a few squiggles on a sole…and hang on!....no messy oil, no smells…


----------



## MikeB_UK

Same as Bandit - a candle, don't need it for the woodies though, so I often forget to use it for the metal planes as well.


----------



## Sawron

Remember: do not use any sort of finishing oils like BLO that might heat up, or any of the oils that can go rancid with a can oiler.

Mineral oil is the best bet, no matter what various morons online might insist due to it being "a nasty petroleum product" or "a nasty chemical" (what the hell do you think chemicals are folks, water is a freaking chemical! everything which isn't a pure atomic element is a chemical!) and won't have negative side effects on your tools or workpiece.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Same as Bandit - a candle, don t need it for the woodies though, so I often forget to use it for the metal planes as well.
> 
> - MikeB_UK


Me too (candle wax) because my wife provides me with a steady supply of bases from used-up candles. I was using the rag in a can for a while but it was lost in the move to the new shop. Oops & damn.

I sporadically oil and wax my wooden planes, including the soles, but don't feel the need to wax them in use. Oddly, I do find it beneficial to wax the wooden auxiliary fences on some of my metal planes (Record 045C and 778, WS Birmingham A78).


----------



## controlfreak

I am a rag in the can man. No BLO or poof, use 3&1 oil. Its quick and handy for saws too. Not a bad rust inhibitor too.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Candles here. WD40 when I want to keep rust at bay. I found out some time back, don't plane wet or green wood. It will do things to the plane that keep you up at night : ). Just say " NO" to wet woods.


----------



## DevinT

Well, I'll just throw what I use out there, since I am, yet again, different.

I use this product with a buffing pad. I don't throw the pad away, it just keeps accumulating more wax buildup as I use it. The buffing pad sits right atop the wax in a can. Before my final pass, I will only wax in front of the blade.

In other news, I saw this beauty and for the life of me could not figure out why nobody had bid on it. So I watched, and waited, and with 15 seconds left pounced. Yet, there was no competition. With back to school being in full swing, is August the time to be shopping for hand planes to get the best deals or are people losing interest as they go back into the office? Hmmm, I wonder. Their loss, my gain - I have seen similar planes go for as high as $200 - got this beauty for $120


----------



## 33706

> Does anyone have a link to more information on the rag-in-a-can oiler? - Notw It s a term made more popular by Paul Sellers in his blog. It is nothing more than a rag rolled up tightly and hanging out of a small can, where you have soaked a compatible oil into the rag. Wipe an go rust protection for wood working.
> 
> Any search engine should find it Seller s blog and other versions as well.
> 
> I use paraffin wax while planing, and bowling alley or carnauba wax for rust prevention.
> 
> YMMV
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


I charge my rag in a can with Marvel Mystery Oil. Sometimes a drop or two of motor oil. Marvel's scent puts me in a good mood, irrespective of whether it's a good choice otherwise.


----------



## bandit571

Was just using the same model hand plane, last week…


----------



## DevinT

*bandit*, awesome! I suspect I will find many uses for the No 3 soon to be new to me when it arrives


----------



## DevinT

Everybody (including me) likely looking up Marvel Mystery Oil now


----------



## bandit571

Sold in Walmart's Automotive section….


----------



## RWE

I picked up the "B-Plane" that I passed on a few weeks back. I had called the store and paid, so they held it for me. It is in decent shape except for the rear tote. Front knob has cracks but is still together. There is some pitting on the iron and some next to the edge, but there is enough iron to grind it out. The body has that 130-140 year old patina that we all love (actually don't think I have seen metal plane that is certified to be that old except for an early Stanley 6 that I had mis-typed for years). I had picked up that up that #6 early in my rust hunting career and since it had a B in the body under the frog or on the frog, I thought for a while it was a Birmingham plane. Later figured that out.

So I have some refurb work in front of me.

I don't think these command much money, but I feel good about it for $17.00. I like old.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Shiny new to me infil plane.

Usermade, so all the collecters ignored it and it fell into my price range.
In realy good shape, this is as it came, no clean up at all, just need to sharpen the iron. 


















Next to a number 5 for a size comparison


----------



## RWE

> Shiny new to me infil plane.
> 
> Usermade, so all the collecters ignored it and it fell into my price range.
> In realy good shape, this is as it came, no clean up at all, just need to sharpen the iron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next to a number 5 for a size comparison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - MikeB_UK


Just when I thought that I had most of my "plane" wants and needs accounted for, you show this shiny new infil. Now I am depressed, got to have an infil.

Looks really nice, congrats.


----------



## corelz125

Thats a nice looking plane Mike.

Kevin there's one for you in this month's tool list. 
The coolest miter box ever produced, Julius Cowell's August
20, 1889 patent for the "Standard";


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, I saw that. Then sat down and held my breath till I passed out. When I came to I had killed off the "wanna" brain cells and went blissfully on my way!

With shipping it would be a little too close to a thousand dollar tool for me.

But I do really want it. :-(


----------



## bandit571

Well…this was a "Before" photo…









handsome, ain't he? 
Well..









Ready to join it's "twin"?









Low knob vs tall knob?









Why 2 of these? Because I thought the low knob one was a #4 size….these are both a #3 size.









May not be up to Sansoo's "Standards" ....just 2 old planes…about 90 years old?


----------



## EricFai

Cleaned up nicely Bandit.


----------



## corelz125

See if you can get on a payment plan Kevin.


----------



## DevinT

That infill …


----------



## Notw

Devin I really enjoy using my No. 3 its a great size. Yours looks to be in a lot better shape than when I received mine.


----------



## RWE

Old dog, new trick.

I was working on the B-Plane that I picked up on Monday. The rear tote was the devil to get off. As it turned out, some previous owner had wrapped what I took to be thin copper sheet material and wrapped it like a straw around the tote screw. I guess he did that to align the top and bottom parts at the break.

When I saw it, I said that looks like a pen blank tube. So I got the the top and bottom cleared out and thought, why not try a pen tube to help with the alignment during the glue up with epoxy.

It worked surprisingly well. I have not connected the parts yet, but the pen tube was the perfect size for the hole. Alignment is great.

For what it is worth.


----------



## donwilwol

I've used broken aluminum arrows like that


----------



## Lazyman

That is a brilliant idea. Might even be useful for a temporary reinforcement until you have time to glue the parts back together.


----------



## DevinT

What's that? I thought I told that No 8 no picking up any hitchhikers. Looks like a No 3 (also Type 11).

More pictures to come when I can pull that No 8 over to write it a ticket.


----------



## DevinT

Also pictured next to the No 8 are two new-to-me hand planes courtesy of Northwoodsman which warrant a closer inspection. The collection is growing. I'd be lying if I said I had not recently searched a No 2


----------



## Mosquito

I still need to sell my Stanley #2 one of these days, among several other planes. Gotta get organized and get pictures taken


----------



## DevinT

I am still missing a 1, 2, 4 1/2, 5 1/4, 5 1/2, 7 1/2 (but that's another ball-game; LN), and 10 1/4 (that tilting handle). I have seen only one 4 1/4 and it imho is more rare than No 1. Shooting planes too. Also molding planes and plows and shoulders and routers. Still a lot to go. I better pick up the pace before the EMP hits.


----------



## DevinT

I recently learned that the blade in a No 3 plane will also fit 5 1/4, as well as 2 different compass planes (No 20 and No 113) as well as the transitional plane, Stanley No 22.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photo…









Since the Stanley #3 T-11 was still out on the bench..









And..that IS a glued up panel…was trying to get it flat..









Getting there..


----------



## rad457

> I recently learned that the blade in a No 3 plane will also fit 5 1/4, as well as 2 different compass planes (No 20 and No 113) as well as the transitional plane, Stanley No 22.
> 
> - DevinT


Yup, lots of blades interchangeable, over the years changed out about 90% of my blades to PMV-11, got tired of swapping blades Bonus of the PMV-11 irons is they are thicker so on the #4 1/2 the mouth gets real tight.
Problem with a #5 Bailey is that even with moving the frog back may need to file the mouth to open it up enough to make a makeshift scrub


----------



## DevinT

I saw the faintest hint of a threat of a whisp of rust starting to form on the No 3 after simply taking out of the box and setting it on the shelf without so much as breathing on it. A mere 10 hours in the garage over night.

I jumped into action. No time for heroics or fancy shenanigans; glove was donned and the can of paste wax came out in record time. Caught it just in time to where I didn't have to remove any rust, but it definitely did not have enough protection for my climate so close to the water.

Funny how we can identify the mere threat of rust without actually having it yet when you have dealt with it for a while.


----------



## RWE

Anyone here have a Stanley 48. That is the swingarm tongue and groove plane. I have found one that doesn't have the locking pin and the spring for it, otherwise in great shape. I did not buy it, but decided to see if it could be made whole. It has been at the same location now for over a year.

I have a Fulton model swingarm tongue and groove plane and I cannot figure how one could remove or insert a replacement spring and locking pin in it. It seems to me the cap on the pin was fixed during assembly and cannot be removed, so the pin is thereby fixed in place.

So I am wondering if the same situation is true for a 48. I guess one could fabricate a pin and make it work, but I have spotted a parts plane on Ebay and if I could determine that the pin can be removed, that would give me an authentic tool.

I expect this is a dead end, that the 48 has a solid pin that would be difficult to swap out. Any feedback would be appreciated.

I recently used the Fultion and it is a great little tool.


----------



## corelz125

When you tell the wife you're buying another plane.


----------



## TedT2

Bought these this week but have them for sale already but thought they were cool enough to share.


----------



## bandit571

Coopers' Planes?


----------



## TedT2

> Coopers Planes?
> 
> - bandit571


I had to ask on a FB page but they said curved rabbet planes. For doing arc frame doors and windows…


----------



## CaptainKlutz

PREFACE:
.#IAMAKLUTZ hand plane user, not a collector. 
Have all the conventional hand planes I need, and will use most often. I do dream of certain planes I would like to own have at right price, and that is why I watch this thread. 

On the prowl, found and attended a LIVE auction today with nothing but hand planes . 

Detailed story:
Started out disappointed. Arrive at auction house, and since Covid LIVE AUCTION means something different than an auctioneer rattling off numbers endlessly, that only stops when gavel drops. It means the auction has a short period of live 'in your face' bidding online, with limited time after each bid to raise your price; just like you will experience at in-person auction. After 2 fair warnings (maybe 20 seconds?), time is up; high bidder wins. There was almost no reason to drive over hour one way to attend this (cough cough) LIVE auction.

The only good part of being at the auction house for the 90min long auction, was ability to thoroughly scope out the planes while I was watching each lot go live. Plus the auction house is huge has some cool decorations from auctioning antiques for many decades.

My first 'surprised me I bought this' was a box of 'meh' Stanley Defiance and Tradesman planes, 









only because a cute little Stanley #2 was hiding in the lot.

















Never had a #2. Thought it be cool to try one? It needs a tote, tote screw and brass nut. Tote is easy thanks to LV drawings for all tote sizes, and hopefully some #3 hardware can be adapted to work? The blade is worn down severely. Only couple sharpening's left in it. Will see if I got a bargain, or duped; after the sand blaster gets done with it.
BTW - anyone want some Defiance or Tradesman planes cheap? PM me 

Another lot I brought home was Stanley 112:









Has minor surface rust, everything moves, and needs a blade. Highland woodworking sells replacement blades from Kunz for $20. Paid just over 1/2 the current evilbay prices for it. Seemed like a fair price.

A third lot bought was acquired on a strange whim. The lot had 4 generic #5 planes. I do not need any #5 planes, have several as parts planes already. Might use the rosewood furniture or some screws, but the rest are useless for me. The reason I bid on the lot was ONE plane, lets see if you find the one that caught my eye:








.
.
.
Do you see it yet? 
The 2nd from left has abnormal frog pitch!

Tore the plane down and it measures ~55°. The base has elevated back strap with taller mounting screw bosses. 









I have never seen a York pitch Stanley? Not sure if original, or owner modification; but I can't find any weld or machining marks? Need to give it good cleaning, and inspect it further. 
Hopefully our LJ resident plane experts can shed some light on what I found?

PS - There was another lot with 2nd brand planes, and a late model red furniture Miller Falls plane. It had complete Skew plane in the box. Someone got a bargain @ $55. My phone battery dropped below 5%, and turned off WIFI as lot became live, or I would have been chasing that lot as well. :-(
Skew planes are about the thing missing from my USER collection of tools. 

Thanks for reading to end!

Have a great weekend!


----------



## ac0rn

CK, yes, and the one on the right side has a knurled adjusting nut.


----------



## DevinT

I immediately caught the higher angle frog though I think at about 55 you're closer to middle pitch than "York pitch" (about 50 degrees; half way between standard and middle pitch), well below "High pitch" which would be 60-70 degrees


----------



## DevinT

Though the one on the far left has such an interesting lever cap and lateral adjuster in my opinion. Wonder what that plane is.


----------



## DavePolaschek

It has come to my attention that some of our Secret Santas are starting to shop. If you're signed up for this year's Santa, and you have a strong preference about what you'd like to get (within reason, remember the $50 spending limit), it might behoove you to post something here telling Santa what you'd like.

Of course, it might be that Santa knows better than you what you really need (my Santa last year did with the transitional fore plane he sent me), but if you don't want to trust entirely to luck, especially if you're not one of the regulars who everybody knows what they want, posting your wishes might, you know, be helpful.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.


----------



## HokieKen

I can say that I'm currently working on a collection of Millers Falls block planes. So any of those would suit me fine. I prefer the ones that are black enameled as opposed to red and gray V line ones but won't kick any of them out of bed ;-)

That's if my sender wants easy shopping. If their a litte more adventurous, I am too. Anything niche or unusual planes are welcome. I am pretty well set for bench planes but again, I'm an EOE.

A body for a Millers Falls #7 would be welcome and a Langdon Miter Trimmer would make me your best friend for life.


----------



## bandit571

The Dungeon shop does not have a #2 sized plane….nor a 4-1/2 sized plane….nor a #48….

Otherwise, we good to go….have plenty of "spare" planes that MIGHT get shipped out….

Waiting on the West Liberty, Oh. Tractor Fest on Labor Weekend….to see IF there are a few keeper planes…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Well, somebody has got to tell CaptainKlutz that he sucks for snagging such cool tools at the auction. Wowzers Captain, fantastic! That 112 is a bomb, even without a blade in it!


----------



## rad457

From the I'm not a collector side, another Sargent(#409) is on it's way remember seeing something like this but not even sure it is actually a Sargent? Dang E-bay, cost more to ship than to buy!


----------



## DavePolaschek

As for me, I don't really *need* anything specific, but I have metal 2,3,4,5½, and 7, as well as 3 block planes. I have a working set of Gage Transitional planes, but they all need tuning (and some parts, perhaps) before getting put into production, and I have a Sargent transitional fore plane (a 3416, IIRC) I got in last years secret Santa which gets used a ton. I have a set of wood hollows and rounds that I am slowly commissioning and which should be good users once they're done, but I'm still keeping my eye out for smaller and larger rabbet planes and I wouldn't mind a good wooden panel raising plane. Oh, and I have the Veritas combination plane and a pair of metal skew rabbets.

I also tend to build things I find interesting, and next up are going to be a set of floats for my own plane making.

So quirky is good. But there are a ton of tools I'm not familiar with yet. I had no idea a transitional fore plane would become my favorite user.

Surprise me. Or just send me a nice block plane or two.

Or if you feel a need to blow right past the spending limit, a Bill Carter miter plane would be pretty dang neat. ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Oh yeah, I forgot a shoulder plane. I have none so any would be welcome


----------



## bandit571

> From the I m not a collector side, another Sargent(#409) is on it s way remember seeing something like this but not even sure it is actually a Sargent? Dang E-bay, cost more to ship than to buy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Andre


Lever cap IS by Sargent…for their line of Transitional Planes….


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Well if anyone has been paying attention to my collection I like kidney bean lever caps, although I do have a complete set already. I would love a squirrel tail Stanley 100. But honestly you guys all have waaayyyy more experience than I do. Since this is my first swap I'm just glad to be participating. I have already been working on something but im sort of falling in love with it even though its basically useless and destined to be a shelf queen…....


----------



## RWE

I am refurbing a lot of wooden molding planes and came up short in matching pairs of hollow and rounds. So a matched pair of a hollow and a round would be great. Any old profile molder would be great.

A Gage Transitional would be cool.

I like #3's and blocks in the metal category.

I saw a Firestone labeled plane a few months back. Good memories of going to a Firestone store with my dad back in the day.

I have been working on what I call the thick iron series so any old Ohio, KK or Union would be welcome.

Any Sargent would be great.

On Stanley, I have focused on the "between the wars" types so a later type would be of interest, one of those teardrop hole planes, just to see what they are about.

I am basically open to anything. So if you have something in hand, don't hesitate to send that. Otherwise the list above is my current leanings, kind of in descending order.


----------



## TedT2

Well as for me, I am more of a collector than a user at this point…I don't have a shop right now. I am a huge fan of V logo Stanley's. I also like unique stuff and really anything would be cool. I do love me some squirrel tails too. I have a fairly decent collection of 101 sized planes but more is always good. I did put my 5 1/2 to work that I got last year. Trimming doors…lol…little overkill but it worked well.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Since it seems there are more comments on my auction buy of #5 planes then others; decided to investigate types and condition. Here is results:
First plane identification numbers -









#1:Type 9 (1902-1907). Likely made before 1904 based on blade stamp. 
Has type 8 frog (shown below) which sort of explains the strange frog pitch, as type 11 frog in same base is normal pitch.









#2:Type 11 (1910-1918) with a well used blade.

#3: Franken Plane. Has black painted hardwood furniture like a type 17. Has a diagonal adjustment wheel found on type 18. Has a Y shaped frog as found on type 19 (shown below).









#4: Type 17 (1942-1945) war era plane including; a steel adjustment knob and bolts instead of 2 piece brass/steel. Also has stained hardwood furniture hardware. (shown below)









Plane #2 can only be used as parts plane. The holes in base for furniture hardware are stripped out. Shafts were held in with epoxy, that disintegrated when I unscrewed the hardware.








Not upset with the striped holes, as the parts are worth $13 I paid for the plane. 

Cheers.


----------



## theoldfart

I've been on a woody kick so a pair of H&R's would be great, a panel raiser would also be useful. Profile molders are in the mix as well.

On the metallic side there's not much outside of the scarcer #'s so unless your willing to part with say a 1 or 2 or a 444 or 85, you get the idea!


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Oh yeah, I forgot a shoulder plane. I have none so any would be welcome


Were there any MF shoulder planes?

Thanks to everyone who responded so far! I know I've seen a few things I didn't already know about people's proclivities.

For the folks seeking a matched pair of H&Rs, I think I could write up a how-to on how to match a non-matched pair, as even matched ones get out of whack relative to each other with years of use. And I've been reading a lot and experimenting a little, thinking I'd end up making my own set of H&Rs at some point. Also, rather than a single pair, you probably want two pair. Say 4s and 9s or 7s and 11s or something with a little spread between them so you can make ogees that look good. (And sized appropriately to the kind of work you mostly do) That's what Matt Bickford recommends as a minimum starting set.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> #3: Franken Plane. Has black painted hardwood furniture like a type 17. Has a diagonal adjustment wheel found on type 18. Has a Y shaped frog as found on type 19 (shown below).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


I have a few planes that match this configuration, although mine were all Made In CAN. I've always typed them as late T18s or very early T19s.



> For the folks seeking a matched pair of H&Rs, I think I could write up a how-to on how to match a non-matched pair, as even matched ones get out of whack relative to each other with years of use. And I've been reading a lot and experimenting a little, thinking I'd end up making my own set of H&Rs at some point.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


I, for one, would appreciate reading that about Dave.


----------



## RWE

Can anyone help on typing this plane. I don't know if it is an early Defiance or a late Stanley.

I got it in the "infinite basement" pick and have ignored it till now. No lumber with it. It must have been in a moist enviroment, but has cleaned up fairly well, other than the iron.

The lateral has that folded wing style, u shaped thing. That makes me think it is an early Defiance, before the gull-wing style. However the Stanley logo in a white field makes me wonder if it is a late Stanley.

The frog seems to have been red. I think the inside of the body is black, but it is so roached out it could have been red or blue, just can't tell.

I think someone ought to invent one of those phone apps like they have to identify plants. Just snap a couple of pictures and get a definite type on the plane.

Before, as found:








Basic cleanup and disassembled.:









Folded lateral, no logo on the lateral top.








Had a plate sitting on the frog bed, user made I suppose.








Ugly tote screws makes me think Defiance again. The depth adjuster wheel is metal, huge, with 90 degree grooves.








Lots of numbers in the bed.









Got most of the rust and pitting off, first go at it. Will use flat granite slab and adhesive paper next.


----------



## bandit571

Type 21? Post 1962 era…after Stanley decided to crimp down the Whale Tail Lateral lever..


----------



## RWE

I think you have it diagnosed Bandit:

From TimeTestedTools

Smitty has a blog on the later types. It was referenced on Don's site.

Like I said in my "wish list" post above, I don't know much about the later types. Now I seem to have to figure out where to get the proper Cordovan paint.

Anybody have a paint brand and color. Also need lumber if anyone has a busted up parts plane Type 21 #4.

Also the casting is very heavy. i think I read about later types having heavy castings.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

My vote is type 20 - 1962-1967, or later; often called the blue period. 
The C557MP number cast in base gives it away. Drop that number in a search engine and look at pictures. 
Couple for sale on evilbay too.


----------



## bandit571

Usually were a lighter shade of blue….although some had the darker, almost black shade…

Also..throw that steel plate away….unless you like a big gap under the frog…

1967-69 was the era of the Cordovan/ Ox blood colour…the area around the logo would have been a yellow…ugly.


----------



## RWE

I will give it some more study, but even thought the numbers match the blue series, the field around the Stanley logo looks white, but was probably yellow. The one Blue example that I looked at had a red field.

Also the interior of the frog, underneath the blade does look like it could have been cordovan.










Maybe the numbers were used in both series or the blue number was carried over when the cordavan's were introduced.

Not sure if the numbers on the frog will help.


----------



## RWE

I think I found a match. Same number in the body, but Cordovan. Same number on the iron. Yellow field around logo.

Now I have to figure out if it is even worth restoring.

Picclik.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> I, for one, would appreciate reading that about Dave.


Ok. I'll add it to the list of things, and might get to it either just before or after my back surgery this Friday, since I'm not getting any shop time. Which means no photos, but I can go back and add those later…

Thanks for commenting Kent!

And thanks again to those who've written up their list for Santa! Sounds like almost nobody is getting coal!


----------



## RWE

> I, for one, would appreciate reading that about Dave.
> 
> Ok. I'll add it to the list of things, and might get to it either just before or after my back surgery this Friday, since I'm not getting any shop time. Which means no photos, but I can go back and add those later…
> 
> Thanks for commenting Kent!
> 
> And thanks again to those who've written up their list for Santa! Sounds like almost nobody is getting coal!
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


I would be interested as well. I have 10-12 unmatched hollows and rounds.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Those extra reinforcement 'channels' on your plane, RWE, along with that embossed number, lead me to think it's a Canadian casting. And especially towards the end of Stanley's manufacturing run of bench planes, Canada kinda followed the beat of a different drummer when it came to types. IMO, YMMV, etc. etc.

Re: Santa, he's welcome to provide 'whatever,' and I'll be tickled to death. Particularly interested in a tool, or a variation of a tool, that this Santa uses himself, in his shop, that they feel I may enjoy or learn from as well. OR, stuff or a thing with a SW logo is nice.  It's all good.


----------



## RWE

> Those extra reinforcement 'channels' on your plane, RWE, along with that embossed number, lead me to think it's a Canadian casting. And especially towards the end of Stanley's manufacturing run of bench planes, Canada kinda followed the beat of a different drummer when it came to types. IMO, YMMV, etc. etc.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I don't get out much. I had to look up YMMV to figure that out. LOL

I just looked for a cordovan paint. Did you do any restorations on cordovan planes and do you have a brand/color that you recommend? Looks like I may have to visit the hobby shop and pick out some model paint.

With the crazy trigger depth adjuster Millers Falls and the type 21 Stanley, that would give me two end of the line, made in USA, planes. Can't argue with that. I think I will make the furniture for the type 21.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Did you do any restorations on cordovan planes and do you have a brand/color that you recommend? Looks like I may have to visit the hobby shop and pick out some model paint.
> 
> - RWE


Nothing that required painting. And I can't say there's been talk of matching that color before, here on LJs.


----------



## HokieKen

If Stanley was anything like Millers Falls, the cordovan paint wasn't consistent over the years. I spent a great deal of effort trying to match the red enamel on the first eggbeater drill I bought. Only to discover it didn't match the red on the first plane I got. Since then, I've decided any red is fine.


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## DavePolaschek

The cordovan is, at least in what I've seen, more of a family of colors. There's an enamel which matches the current cordovan-ish "world planes" that I've spoken of before. Don't remember who made it off the top of my head because I decided I didn't want to match that color (though I do still have 3 world plane blister-pack #3s that I'll eventually do something with) and I decided that the last one I modified should be CAT yellow.

RWE and Kent, I've started on it, but if you want the definitive source, get Matt Bickford's Mouldings in Practice and chapter 14 on maintaining the edge will have better information than I'm likely to write up.


----------



## RWE

> The cordovan is, at least in what I've seen, more of a family of colors. There's an enamel which matches the current cordovan-ish "world planes" that I've spoken of before. Don t remember who made it off the top of my head because I decided I didn't want to match that color (though I do still have 3 world plane blister-pack #3s that I'll eventually do something with) and I decided that the last one I modified should be CAT yellow.
> 
> RWE and Kent, I've started on it, but if you want the definitive source, get Matt Bickford's Mouldings in Practice and chapter 14 on maintaining the edge will have better information than I'm likely to write up.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


I have pretty much decided to go to a Hobby shop and check out those options. They have a wide variety of spray paints, which they are pretty proud of. I had to do this for a Millers Falls 900 that had the whole body, sides and all painted. I got a "battleship grey" for that plane. I don't know if we had any cordovan battle ships or airplanes, but I will find out.

I will look into the Bickford book. Thanks.


----------



## bandit571

There used to be a shoe polish…by KIWI, called Ox Blood…..about as close to Cordovan as you will get.

Or, find the seats from an old LeBaron…that …"rich Corinthian leather.." style…since both were being sold at the same era..

I currently have 2 such planes…a No. 60-1/2….and a No. 9-1/4…


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Those extra reinforcement 'channels' on your plane, RWE, along with that embossed number, lead me to think it's a Canadian casting. And especially towards the end of Stanley's manufacturing run of bench planes, Canada kinda followed the beat of a different drummer when it came to types. IMO, YMMV, etc. etc.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I've found that the Canadian-made planes (after t16 anyway) generally follow the type studies relatively well, although ALL of my Canadian-made T18 planes (3C, 4, 2×4C, 5, 5C & 6C) with the diagonally-knurled depth adjusters have the T19 soles with the Y-rib. Since the 6C also has the painted black furniture like the wartime planes, I'm speculating that Stanley tried the T19 base out in Canada first, as a sort of trial run. It's pure speculation on my part, but it seems to fit the info that I have.










Also, the C557MP planes that I have seen have all been cordovan or dark blue AND made in the USA, which leads me to believe that they were made in the late 1970s or the 1980s. I've not seen the reinforcement 'channels' on the tail of a plane that was made in Canada and the Roxton Pond plant closed in 1984. Perhaps Stanley didn't want to invest in the retooling for a plant that was going to be closed anyway? Also, the reinforcement 'channels' were on some of the Made in England planes like this Cordovan No 5.


----------



## RWE

Well making the decision about the color is one thing. Now I have to figure out what style of lumber such a plane would have used.

The one on Ebay had those ugly flat sides like so many of the later types show, but it was wood and not painted. I think I will go that route, even though painting the lumber black would certainly be easier for such low value plane.

But as they say "A good plane is a terrible thing to waste".

I am getting too damn old I think. I seem to remember doing a tote where i followed some plans that had me cut the shape and then round the edges with a round over bit in a hand held router (I do have a trim router now, back then I only had a full sized one). That might work for that style of tote. Knock it off quickly and have that flat sided look. Can touch up with a rasp as needed. Can't put nice contoured lumber on a plane that did not have it in the first place. There are rules in the universe and we must obey those rules. YMMV


----------



## DavePolaschek

I blogged about matching / maintaining a pair of moulding planes - there's probably at least one thing horribly wrong in it, so feel free to comment. But it's based on what I've been doing as I slowly recommission my set of hollows and rounds. Most of them were pretty good, but I have a few "practice planes" from eBay I used to practice my techniques on first…


----------



## RWE

> I blogged about matching / maintaining a pair of moulding planes - there's probably at least one thing horribly wrong in it, so feel free to comment. But it's based on what I've been doing as I slowly recommission my set of hollows and rounds. Most of them were pretty good, but I have a few "practice planes" from eBay I used to practice my techniques on first…
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Good timing on your post Dave. I just went out to inventory the hollows and rounds that I picked up lately.

Seems I have a 5/16, 6/16 pair and a 20/16 pair, or close enough to be made to match. Not much range in the two smaller pairs but it is a beginning.

I will order the Bickford book.

I had been working on skewed rabbets first and will probably tackle hollows and rounds last.


----------



## DavePolaschek

If/when you decide to make the 5 & 6 both be 5s, feel free to ask questions. I didn't cover that case very well (barely at all), as I've only tried it once and wasn't especially happy with the results.

But I would say first step is just get a few usable. I used up a couple pretty nasty eBay planes figuring out what not to do along the way.


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## corelz125

I'll take any plane the size of a #8. It's a far reach for $50 but I figured if Kevin can ask for a #1,#2. or a 444 i'll give it a try.


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## bandit571

Cordovan planes?









#60-1/2 beside a No. 9-1/4..









As close as this camera can get to that colour…









Along with my "spare" 60-1/2…

Pass in review?









Something that LOOKS like a Stanley No. 9-1/2..









But has a logo on the front end..









MARSH…and on the lateral..









Also…a Type 2 Stanley No. 9-1/2…









And..a front view…









And..









From the side….


----------



## TedT2

> I ll take any plane the size of a #8. It s a far reach for $50 but I figured if Kevin can ask for a #1,#2. or a 444 i ll give it a try.
> 
> - corelz125


I purchased two junk planes, a rusted but salvageable #8 and a rust bucket, brazed 62 for $5 at an auction last year…so it is doable.


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## RWE

Any ideas about what the rabbet is for on this Skewed Rabbet plane bottom edge?

It is a Kennedy and White plane.

I have guessed that it was from a wear strip that separated, some sort of depth stop, some sort of fence for shallow rabbet cuts.

What the heck is it??? I just read that the closed up mouth with one side for shavings ejectment is a bit unusual.


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## DavePolaschek

My guess would either be boxing that separated and is gone, or a shop-made fence for a repeated small rabbet.


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## RWE

The depth and width is about 3/16. I thought a boxing/wear strip made sense, but it would seem that they would have done a more substantial depth if not width on a wear strip.

I think the shop made fence for a repeatable small rabbet makes the most sense.

I will keep reading the books that I have and see if I come up with any documentation for such a feature.

In reading the Bickford book download, it may be that the cabinet maker cut a small molding that required a narrow strip to be precut, followed by a hollow or round or profile plane. Hard to know.


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## DavePolaschek

I agree, boxing would be bigger unless it was an edge that got damaged, and then (poorly) boxed by a user. But the shop-made fence seems like the kind of thing I would do…

Edited to add: but I am on pain pills for my bad back, so it's entirely possible I'm not thinking straight…


----------



## RWE

> I agree, boxing would be bigger unless it was an edge that got damaged, and then (poorly) boxed by a user. But the shop-made fence seems like the kind of thing I would do…
> 
> Edited to add: but I am on pain pills for my bad back, so it's entirely possible I'm not thinking straight…
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Well I have been worried about that rabbet for a couple of months now it seems. So even if you are not thinking straight, I accept your opinion. (Hope the upcoming procedure helps)

In software there is a phenomena called "confessional programming". If you start to describe the problem then in the process of describing it to someone, the solution appears to you.

So I am going with the shop made fence for a small rabbet theory and now I will have to find something else to obsess about. Got the Cordovan color decided today, got the mystery rabbet resolved, a good day.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I used to engage in confessional programming, too.

Glad you can move on. If it were my plane, I would probably square up that rabbet and maybe enlarge it a bit, then put in some ipe (because I have it, and like it as a plane sole) or other boxing / sole replacement. Depending on how adventurous I was feeling, I might even cut off the entire sole and dovetail on a new sole. Have been looking for an excuse to do that for a couple years, and haven't quite made it past the motivational threshold.


----------



## RWE

> I used to engage in confessional programming, too.
> 
> Glad you can move on. If it were my plane, I would probably square up that rabbet and maybe enlarge it a bit, then put in some ipe (because I have it, and like it as a plane sole) or other boxing / sole replacement. Depending on how adventurous I was feeling, I might even cut off the entire sole and dovetail on a new sole. Have been looking for an excuse to do that for a couple years, and haven't quite made it past the motivational threshold.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


I may do a replacement strip. I have some Persimmon that I could use. I have a transitional that needs a new sole and I have not done that now for about 2 years. I don't think I would ever get one done with a dovetailed bottom. One of my molding planes does have dovetailed boxing. It is a center bead. It is a fine feature for sure.

My inner Paul Sellers is now scribing lines and getting out the dovetail saw, but I will fend him off.

I have Sellers' dovetailed box project with the small drawer all done except the small drawer. I keep waiting for my dovetailing skills to improve.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Cool thing about having retired is that I can let my inner Paul Sellers loose once in a while. Maybe one day I'll let my inner Bill Carter out.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Since my accident, I now do confessional woodworking more often than not. Fortunately, the war department is very good about listening without complaining about it.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photos:









Tongue adjuster…









Router work…


----------



## donwilwol

Bandit, what happen to your picture taking device? Your picture have a melancholy look.


----------



## RWE

> I agree, boxing would be bigger unless it was an edge that got damaged, and then (poorly) boxed by a user. But the shop-made fence seems like the kind of thing I would do…
> 
> Edited to add: but I am on pain pills for my bad back, so it's entirely possible I'm not thinking straight…
> 
> - Dave Polaschek
> 
> Well I have been worried about that rabbet for a couple of months now it seems. So even if you are not thinking straight, I accept your opinion. (Hope the upcoming procedure helps)
> 
> In software there is a phenomena called "confessional programming". If you start to describe the problem then in the process of describing it to someone, the solution appears to you.
> 
> So I am going with the shop made fence for a small rabbet theory and now I will have to find something else to obsess about. Got the Cordovan color decided today, got the mystery rabbet resolved, a good day.
> 
> - RWE


So I picked up reading today in "The Wooden Plane, its history, form and Function by Whelan. The very page that was next up where my bookmark was inserted had a paragraph as follows:

The PANEL plane may be described as a jack, strike block or similar plane which has been modified by cutting a rabbet in the lower right corner of the plane just deep enough to expose the side of the cutter as shown in Fig. 4:12 (The wooden panel plane is not to be confused with the quite different metal plane of the same name.) In most cases the iron is skewed, as this helps both by keeping the plane against the step it is cutting, and also in cutting the cross grain.

Page 68-69

I still don't get it, but will try it out and see if I can raise a panel at some poiint. The idea that you had that it was a fence is valid and I think the key is having a Step in the work to make the plane cant to one side and create a beveled side for a panel. I would call this a "poor man's panel raiser". Take any old skewed rabbet and make a panel raiser out of it.


----------



## bandit571

> Bandit, what happen to your picture taking device? Your picture have a melancholy look.
> 
> - Don W


Might be the Camera operator….


----------



## donwilwol

with a panel raising plane the cutter cuts up to the start, so the rabbet rides the edge to get an even raised panel every time. It looks like the blade on your cuts into and through the rabbet


----------



## RWE

> with a panel raising plane the cutter cuts up to the start, so the rabbet rides the edge to get an even raised panel every time. It looks like the blade on your cuts into and through the rabbet
> 
> - Don W


*
The PANEL plane may be described as a jack, strike block or similar plane which has been modified by cutting a rabbet in the lower right corner of the plane just deep enough to expose the side of the cutter as shown in Fig. 4:12 (The wooden panel plane is not to be confused with the quite different metal plane of the same name.) In most cases the iron is skewed, as this helps both by keeping the plane against the step it is cutting, and also in cutting the cross grain.

Page 68-69*

That is Whelan's comment. I am going to read through it again, but his point was that it was a shop made way to create a panel plane. He did not state that the iron had to filed off so as to not project past the edge. Maybe that is to be interpolated between the lines. it does perhaps explain the odd little rabbet on that plane though.

If you filed the iron off flush with the rabbet you could easily have a flat raised panel and I guess you could work the plane to get a slope as well. Probably freehand off the edge and then when you have some relief, use the rabbet as a fence to get it leveled out.

Also, I mixed and matched irons and planes. That iron may not be the correct or original iron for that plane. So that would explain why it is too wide for the rabbet.

Not to bore everyone with all of this, but in my reading, you would first cut the Step with a Filister which has a fence. Then you take the Poor Man's Panel plane and go to work against the step. That makes sense. All of this is new to me. But it seems you do a lot of prep work to get rid of a lot wood by using rabbets, then you go to the profile or hollows and rounds. I don't think that way, but it must be how this would work.


----------



## donwilwol

Red square is the blade. Black square is the plane. When he says expose the side of the cutter, it means the cutter is showing, but doesn't cut into the rabbet. You could cut a raised panel, but it's not a panel raiser.


----------



## MikeB_UK

A rebate plane already cuts to the edge so wouldn't need the modification, you can make a raised panel with it no problems,
I'd have said it was a repair to a damaged edge that later fell off - but there would be pin holes where it was tacked on and I can't see any.

You'd only modify a plane that had wood on either side of the mouth so you could cut straight to the edge.
Basically making a badger like this out of a normal jack.


----------



## RWE

I agree with Don's diagram. I figure that iron is not the original iron that went with the plane.

This whole discussion started because I was curious about why there was a rebate on the bottom right side of that plane.

So, I will either patch the rebate or leave it and use it to cut panels, but make the plane iron fits the narrower width left after the rebate. The iron is actually proud even if the rebate was not there, so I am sure it is an odd iron that I found to be close to fitting that skew.

I plan to make a hanging cabinet for the metal "show" planes. I have also contemplated making one out of pine or some such wood for the molding planes. So I will probably tweak the iron and try some flat panels for those projects.

Could just tilt the table saw blade and adjust the fence, then cut away, but what fun would that be??


----------



## Sylvain

> The iron is actually proud even if the rebate was not there,
> 
> - RWE


Rebate plane irons have to be proud to work correctly.
And the lateral edge should be a little bit askew to provide a small relief angle.

read the §§ "blade width" and "fettling the cutting iron" in
https://paulsellers.com/2016/05/rebate-plane-no1-78-filletster-plane/


----------



## RWE

> The iron is actually proud even if the rebate was not there,
> 
> - RWE
> 
> Rebate plane irons have to be proud to work correctly.
> And the lateral edge should be a little bit askew to provide a small relief angle.
> 
> read the §§ "blade width" and "fettling the cutting iron" in
> https://paulsellers.com/2016/05/rebate-plane-no1-78-filletster-plane/
> 
> - Sylvain


Thanks for the link. I am aware that the iron should be a bit wider but how much wider I am not sure. What happened is that the iron was matched to the plane from a collection of irons that I got. I got many complete molders and many missing irons, plus a collection of random irons, so I did a systematic process of matching irons to planes. I will be making some irons for sure, particularly for groove planes to mate up with tongue planes that do have irons.

I think it is too proud. I will get the digital calipers out, but the width of the iron by eye is roughly 2 1/16 and the plane body is 1 7/8. So even when you account for the skew angle, it seems a bit overly wide. Having said that, I am proud that I had one that would work in the plane. There are so many variations in the width of the post and the position of the post to the cutting edge, it becomes "interesting" to match up irons and planes.

I have to say that I have been impressed with how well the rabbet planes work. There were around 10 or so skewed rabbets in the collection that I got and most are sharpened and cleaned at this point.

I will see what Sellers has to say.


----------



## bandit571

> Bandit, what happen to your picture taking device? Your picture have a melancholy look.
> 
> - Don W


I run a woodworking shop, not a Photo Studio….is what it is….more than welcome to stop by and take photos that suit others…

Went from a Canon model…to learning how to set up the Polaroid….meh…


----------



## RWE

Last installment of the skewed rabbet with a rabbet mystery.

With a bit more of a clear mind , i read the pages in the Whelan book again.

The little rabbet in the bottom right corner of the plane could serve two purposes.

1. If the iron were modified to fit the width of the plane to the rabbet edge, then you have a "flat panel" panel plane. That was what we concluded previously. Whelan did mention, as I conjectured, that you had to use a fenced plane to create the step that you followed with the modified skew. He mentioned using a a plow to cut a grove that you then followed to get your flat panel. Why not use the plow for the whole thing? Probably the width of cut you could get with a wide rabbet and the better performance of the skewed iron on cross grain cuts.










2. The second case is what is called a "slip panel". I did not follow that after the first read, but now I get it. Say you wanted a flat "frame" with no step down or taper in a frame and panel door. So you retract the iron in the plane, assuming that you have an iron that is full width for the entire plane, and you align the iron with top of the rabbet. That allows you to cut a small rabbet on the panel, all four sides, and it is a narrow rabbet with just enough depth to fit into the grooves of the frame, leaving a "slip panel". I guess you slip the narrow sides into the frame and hence the name "Slip Panel". Whelan stated that when used this way, the user would often tack back a strip of wood into the rebate to put the plane back to normal usage. Lower the iron to the normal depth at the bottom of the plane and you have your plane back after doing that job.










Somewhere up in handtool heaven the original owner (1822-1840 range) is laughing at the dumb modern idiot that cannot figure out such a basic thing.


----------



## bandit571

Trying to joint off an edge of a panel, today…needed about 3-4 strokes to take just enough off…was zipping along just fine with..









The Stanley No.3, T-11…until about the start of the 3rd stroke…seems I had pulled back a bit too far..









And found out just how sharp these corners can be…









When you try to use the side of a finger, OW!

Panels are for..









Side of a box..


----------



## Sylvain

> Whelan stated that when used this way, the user would often tack back a strip of wood into the rebate to put the plane back to normal usage. Lower the iron to the normal depth at the bottom of the plane and you have your plane back after doing that job.
> 
> - RWE


Interesting explanation.

Although, I would prefer to screw a fence to the sole and, if needed, screw a depth stop to the side.
When removing them, the holes would not affect the basic use of the rebate plane.

E.C.E. Emmerich is making wooden filister planes with fence and depth stop.


----------



## RWE

> Interesting explanation.
> 
> Although, I would prefer to screw a fence to the sole and, if needed, screw a depth stop to the side.
> When removing them, the holes would not affect the basic use of the rebate plane.
> 
> E.C.E. Emmerich is making wooden filister planes with fence and depth stop.
> 
> - Sylvain


That certainly would work. I will have to check, but I think I have a rabbet plane or two with holes in the sole. One may have been a fillister that has lost its base movable fence. I have been pre-occupied with several metal planes that I am refurbing and will have to do another inventory on that point soon. Soon unfortunately is a relative term.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thanks for the slip panel plane explanation, RWE.


----------



## RWE

I don't think this is a Stanley. What is it? Might be a good Christmas gift? The lateral is not right. I don't think Stanley had the inverted v shaped lateral until the Defiance series. This plane looks too old.

Any ideas? Union maybe?


----------



## bandit571

Stanley…1955-62 era…the infamous Whale Tail.


----------



## RWE

> Stanley…1955-62 era…the infamous Whale Tail.
> 
> - bandit571


Based on the patina, wouldn't you guess 50's. Brass nuts, more sculpted wood than the later ones.

I came to the conclusion after posting that it was an early Defiance. More to the story, but after Christmas.


----------



## bandit571

Lever cap looks a bit like a 4 Square's lever cap? As they never ground the spring's rivet down….1930s era Four Square…before they added the red square logo? Used to have a 5-1/4 version…years ago..


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Lever cap looks a bit like a 4 Square s lever cap? As they never ground the spring s rivet down….1930s era Four Square…before they added the red square logo? Used to have a 5-1/4 version…years ago..
> 
> - bandit571


Here's my 4 square 5 1/4. Was there a smooth version of the lever cap in the middle, before the 4 square logo?


----------



## donwilwol

cap doesn't look defiance, knob and tote look mahogany which is not defiance. And I don't think most defiance's had the plane number on them? Cap looks Millers fallsy.

A better picture of the lateral and the frog seat will help.


----------



## RWE

> cap doesn t look defiance, knob and tote look mahogany which is not defiance. And I don t think most defiance s had the plane number on them? Cap looks Millers fallsy.
> 
> A better picture of the lateral and the frog seat will help.
> 
> - Don W


Will know more in a few days. Being shipped now.


----------



## 33706

*Here's some Four Squares;*


















The two on the left are #5 1/4, they have a 1 5/8" cutter. They're 11 1/2" long.
The other is marked #1104.

Only one has the original cutter marked 'Stanley Four Square'.


----------



## MikeB_UK

This needed a bit of work









Mostly just cleaned a bit, de-rusted, fixed the screw arm, and added a bit of olive to the wedge (wasn't going to be able to match the colour on the old beech, so why not 
Ready to use.


----------



## controlfreak

That's a beauty Mike! Any idea what to put on the screw threads, mine are dry and a few pieces have fallen off when I disassembled it. It is not that it is difficult to adjust but just seems brittle.


----------



## RWE

I was looking at the pictures and thought, that is a beauty, then I looked down at controlfreak's comment. Anyway, that is a beauty.

Do you have a time period and maker? English I assume.


----------



## MikeB_UK

I just treat them like any other old wood tool - paste wax (mixed with a bit of BLO if it seems really dry).
Seems to work, but old boxwood does seem to get a bit brittle.

That one was definitely brittle - as shown by the arm being snapped of by the postal service.
They also managed to lose the irons through a hole in the box.

I'd have complained, but frankly it was a steal - turns out no one else was on ebay when the Jubilee was on


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photo:









Melancholy because it had to work, today

Stanley No. 3, Type11…vs..Maple…


----------



## corelz125

I have one of the 5 1/4 four sqaure with the black stipled lever caps. I like it considering it was suppose to be a lower lever plane.


----------



## DevinT

Friend of mine text messages me out of the blue.

Says: "hey, I am up in Vancouver, you want anything from the Lee Valley store?"

The way to a girl's heart!

He's dropping off an edge trimming plane


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Lee Valley has a USA shipping warehouse, and opened an 'Express' store location in Reno, NV. Was closed during worst of Covid, but is open now. It's not much to see inside. Mostly a will call pickup desk, and some odds/ends to look at while you wait.

Can order via telephone and ask for pickup in Reno, NV. 
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/storelocations/reno

Most LV stores I've seen are not much different. Except a real store has display cases filled with tools they will pull out and let you play with them. But all the inventory is like Reno, I.E. hidden in back warehouse. Never could figure out why they don't want to grab a shopping cart and wonder around filling it up. ;-)

Might be a good reason for a drive vacation to Reno? Short drive from northern California. 
:-(0)

PS - I do not work for Lee Valley. Just like some of their tools.


----------



## DevinT

I have been to Vancouver. Love it. Would move there in a heartbeat. Didn't get the chance to visit the Lee Valley store when we were there, so don't know what the stores look like, but in my mind's-eye I envision adult Disneyland.


----------



## dbray45

Lee Valley makes a good line of tools. I have a few of them. Their PV steel option is a good choice for the blades.

Their miniature planes are awesome. They did them for an April fools joke but I gotta tell you, they are small, they actually work and fun! Making small doll furniture or anything scaled down, these are must have.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmmm..









Busy morning…


----------



## DevinT

Regarding Lee Valley miniatures, I've always looked at those miniature tools and thought two things:

1. Who uses these?

2. Gosh, they sure do look affordable


----------



## MikeB_UK

Not got any of the LV ones, but I do have the Veritas mini router plane - use it for mortising small hinges mostly, only gripe about it is that the locking screw tends to slip a bit every so often, other than that nice little tool.


----------



## theoldfart

I just got a new plane hammer made by Terry R. African Blackwood and beautifully done.


----------



## corelz125

I have the miniature set of planes and used them. They're useful when making small puzzles.


----------



## corelz125

Terry is one he'll of a tool maker. All of his stuff is very nice.


----------



## RWE

That is a beautiful hammer Kevin. I never conceived of a single hammer for iron adjustment and wooden wedge adjustment. Looking at it gives me ideas.

I use a Garland with wood inserts and a little flea market find small metal hammer (brass or copper heads). The heads on the little metal hammer are removable. I may can get a threaded insert in a bit of persimmon and then turn it down to a good size and use it on one side, metal on the other. As I reread this/proof it, I can probably just cut/tap threads into the wood and make it work.

Like wise, I can put metal in on one side of the Garland, but it really too large for molding plane work. Would work on bench planes.


----------



## theoldfart

Roger, I like the smaller hammers for making slight adjustments to the iron. I've seen a lot of abused wedges and plane ends from aggressive metal hammers.


----------



## donald_wa

DevinT, I used to live near Bellingham(WA) ,about 45 min from the Lee Valley store.At least once a year one of my wood buddies and I would make the trip. I got away by buying my spouse kitchen and garden gadgets. It really is a toy store. I wouldn't move to BC for it though.


----------



## DevinT

Yeah, total buzzkill report from my friend back from Vancouver. Says the store has one tiny (and I mean teensy tiny) display case in the BC store and that's it. All the "good stuff" comes from "the back" (where I would just want to take a shopping cart and go browsing - all the plane packaging has pictures on the boxes anyway, so just let me look at the boxes behind some cage if you are worried about theft, sheesh).

But hey, … the new plane is here.

Friend had to rush off to get a COVID test since he left the country and came back, so could not stay long and chat. I wonder how much this thing set me back - maybe the conversion rate was kind (as occasionally it can be from our friends "up North").

So I got a new joinery plane. The right-handed edge trimming plane with PM-V11 iron. Pictures to come.

Holding it in my hand, it really is something substantial and the pictures online do not do it justice. Online you see people hold this thing and it looks like a toy, but this ain't no toy for sure. It's heavy. It is powder coated in all the right places. I love it.

It was this video which clued me in to what on Earth the plane is for and how it is supposed to be held and used.

Odd thing though, out of the box, I have a right handed model but it feels way more comfortable in my left hand. Shrug. Guess we will know more when I go to use it


----------



## RWE

Anyone ever see this plane body style. I figure it was a type 20, but it is black. Nothing that I have seen on the Type Studies shows or describes this body. Everything else, Yellow field around Stanley, folded lateral, parallel knurling on the adjuster knob looks type 20.

My best guess is Type 19 or early type 20, but I have found no image that matches the features of the toe and heel sections.

Odd flat raised area where USA is stamped









Two raised lines that parallel where the tote connects.


----------



## donwilwol

It is well after any type study. Probably 1980 or later


----------



## corelz125

Interesting frog seat on that


----------



## ac0rn

The raised tabs on the sides of the tote seems a good improvement to prevent twisting the tote.


----------



## terryR

Old Fart, so glad you like the mallet! It's probably the most dainty one I've made.

Covid has slowed me down considerably, but I'm still learning to build infill planes,



















^that one is Bronze, Steel, and Redwood Burl. Next one already in progress…


----------



## HokieKen

I think:



> ...I'm still learning to build infill planes,...
> 
> - terryR


Can progress to:



> ...I'm still building infill planes,...
> 
> - terryR




I like the result of using the square stock to turn your plane hammers too. I may have to give that a go next time I need a small tapper of some sort. My last machinists' hammer design was turned and milled from hex stock. 









Square stock would be less work though so I may give that a run next time. And I also decided that "dainty" was the right direction to go for plane hammers ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

I have heard that it works well but have not yet gotten the guts to try turning brass on my wood lathe. Do you start by moving in from end on non-round stock or can you rough from the side like you do with wood?


----------



## jwoodcraft

Hmm, I might be lost…


----------



## Notw

jwoodcraft I've often wanted to try a Japanese hand plane but wasn't really sure where to start or what was good and bad


----------



## HokieKen

> I have heard that it works well but have not yet gotten the guts to try turning brass on my wood lathe. Do you start by moving in from end on non-round stock or can you rough from the side like you do with wood?
> 
> - Lazyman


Either one. Just turn it like you wood turn wood with carbide tools but take lighter cuts.


----------



## terryR

yes to just scraping brass on the lathe; carbide or steel. A file is a powerful tool as well; use slow speeds. I hold the "far end" of the file with my left hand and shape out mistakes left by uneven turning. files, files, files


----------



## HokieKen

You may already know this TR but for Nathan - coat files with chalk before using on brass or other soft metals. They'll go a lot longer before they start to clog.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> You may already know this TR but for Nathan - coat files with chalk before using on brass or other soft metals. They ll go a lot longer before they start to clog.
> 
> - HokieKen


That is definitely new to me. Thanks for mentioning it.


----------



## bandit571

And…yes MOS, I have been using that little block plane…


----------



## Lazyman

As in powdered chalk that athletes use? Or do you just use a stick of of chalk like you would use on a chalkboard?


----------



## HokieKen

I just use a stick of chalk Nathan but the other may work too I'm not sure. You need it to get into the "valleys" of the teeth and stay there.


----------



## Mosquito

> And…yes MOS, I have been using that little block plane…
> 
> - bandit571


haha nice! I had noticed that, glad it's getting some use. That size block plane has been my go-to for a long time. Just recently got a squirrel tail version of it


----------



## Notw

Where are you buying your brass? I looked at turning a brass hammer a few years ago but seemed the price of brass made me not interested anymore.


----------



## HokieKen

I buy it off Ebay Notw. It's definitely not cheap these days but you can usually find a decent deal on a short piece when you need it.


----------



## jwoodcraft

> jwoodcraft I ve often wanted to try a Japanese hand plane but wasn t really sure where to start or what was good and bad
> 
> - Notw


IME, even moderately priced planes are pretty decent and will do a good job. Avoid ones with a thin blade - it should be at least 1/4" thick at the butt. Expect to let the wood acclimate for weeks to months depending on how different your climate is from Japan's, or wherever the plane comes from. There is a certain amount of set up, even for a new one- Youtube shows how. Some of my planes have come from ebay- fun and can be bargain price 'tho shipping has gone up. Don't buy anything pricey, and skip the really worn ones to start- they need more work. Something like this could be good- the plane is used but not beat, and a few other goodies.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/204070353991?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20220405142716%26meid%3D9b141fe8e2f14355b0e7a8e10e27cf8b%26pid%3D101506%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D25%26sd%3D203968183322%26itm%3D204070353991%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2563228%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseWebMskuAspectsV202110NoVariantSeedNoPLX&_trksid=p2563228.c101506.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A2040703539919b141fe8e2f14355b0e7a8e10e27cf8b%7Cenc%3AAQAHAAABEAzdIKOcP6rVYsexH8mCu6bA2DY6ElM67JKComxjxAnyT9vOhsWu88eBePRdeUyezGJzQOV7Xuwj4hElfgg5l6tEx0LMaYmHU%252B2RMQ3p6dMkaIn7iMdtdYC5jkCZLVoVVdp%252Fv1Tz7tBFTlkq70Pf1rjubhJ7dd1DM1EHAWzsylXzgxKxbjc52bdPEmuocDVc6UGCPjOLdwgzk1NQTlx9eDnveBtTuFhGsb2f%252BEddK5E0QkHyfyW4t72YbMv0pWP%252BnDOqngxwq5OAhH8O1KcKGzXJesIVSlOketkkITPwqNobedf53y2CSygD6eI142msKmyDhqEtuRrDFdCHBR%252BuKMisqaqi3JGy2gYHDvUjBpmY%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2563228
Kakuri (direct or Amazon) has decent quality stuff for new.

Cheers, Jay


----------



## corelz125

The long link wasn't me this time


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah Corelz you can stay this time.


----------



## RWE

I feel like a proud Papa. At the "infinite basement" pick many months back, I bought two boxes of planes and plane parts. Most were molding planes, but there were a few metal planes in the bottom of the box.










I had swapped planes with Sansoo and got a very beautiful KK5 that he did. Later, I stumbled over a KK4 in another Antique Store. I had a Union 6 from a few months before. Long story short, in the bottom of the box was the body of a Ohio Tools #3. So this little baby gives me a thick iron series of Ohio #3, KK4, KK5 (both by Ohio Tools) and the Union #6 which also sported a thick iron.

Still working on the KK4. The Ohio tools had no knob or tote, no screws for them either. The venerable Sansoo helped me out and did the lumber for the #3 and the KK4 and provided screws for the #3. Thanks to Sansoo for such a great job on the lumber.




























I will post before and after pictures on the Restoration thread. I will also post the requisite shavings pictures. I was just excited about my my new baby and had to show it, still has to have the final sharpening.


----------



## EricFai

Have to ask, who has the wide screen. Scroll across instead of down…..


----------



## Mosquito

Eric, you talking about on the mobile app? It's because of Jay's long link a few posts back. LJ can't handle long links on mobile


----------



## corelz125

The early Ohios have a nice hefty feel to them


----------



## EricFai

Everything I post a link, it wraps to the next line. And I use my phone. Hopefully it will clear up down the line.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I ran across a Union 4 yesterday at a local antique shop. Most amazing site, the depth adjuster had been turned all the way in and the person using it had been hitting the top of the blade with a big hammer to set the blade. The blade was literally mushroomed from that practice. I couldn't make out what brand the blade was so it may have been something robbed from a wood plane and put in use in this no 4. Otherwise, the poor old Union plane wasn't too bad. I didn't take it apart to see if the depth adjuster cam had been damaged but my suspicion was that it was okay.

I also found a Stanley 4 1/2 C, most likely a type 8 that was in the average antique shop condition. I left it because of the $85 price. Even at 10% off of that it would have been out of my range. Would have been fun to fix up though.


----------



## bandit571

2 items found, today…









Price tag said $20…got it for $15….EC Stearns & Co. 1/4" - 1-1/4"

The other item was part of a $1 deal…









Block plane is stamped along the left side as a Craftsman 107-37032B…Square MIGHT be a Stanley?

One other $1 sale..









For these 3….might have some clean up to do?

Screwdriver is a Irwin #8000 3"


----------



## bandit571

As for that block plane…the "after"?









And, a side view…









Rumour control says this be by Millers Falls?


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, that's a 16C Bandit.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

For those that 'know' me, having hung around for what seems like so many years now, I thought I'd pass along news that my father died last night of Pancreatic Cancer. He was 89. Taught me so very much… I owe him everything, and I miss him already. He joined LJs just to keep up with what I was doing with wood. He was Iceman50.

That is all.


----------



## RWE

> For those that know me, having hung around for what seems like so many years now, I thought I d pass along news that my father died last night of Pancreatic Cancer. He was 89. Taught me so very much… I owe him everything, and I miss him already. He joined LJs just to keep up with what I was doing with wood. He was Iceman50.
> 
> That is all.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I think that you will find that he lives on in your memories. Things will come up and you will be thinking what would dad think about this. I lost my father over 40 years ago to cancer. I told my sister the other day that dad would not think much of my woodworking projects but would love the old tools as much as I do. He kind of hangs around in the shop with me. I did my first woodworking projects with his guidance when I was around Junior High age and developed a love for tools back then.

Not to get too long winded, but he was the son of a farmer in extreme Southern Virginia. Back in the day it was common for rural folks to do some woodworking and make necessary items that were needed in the home or barn. So he made a few items that I still have and I picked up his love for woodworking.

I think you will be surprised at how "present" your father will be.


----------



## Notw

Sorry for your loss Smitty


----------



## HokieKen

Very sorry to hear Smitty. You have my deepest sympathy.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Sorry Smitty, it's never easy letting go of the ones you love no matter when they go.


----------



## Mosquito

Aww man Smitty, sorry to hear that :-( I hope you and your family heal as quickly and in whatever manor is best


----------



## 33706

Sorry to hear the news, Smitty. He can rest, knowing his legacy of the brilliant, kind-hearted son that he created.


----------



## controlfreak

Sorry for your loss Smitty.


----------



## adot45

I'm very sorry to hear of your loss, our sympathies go out to you.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Sorry Smitty. My thoughts are with you and your loss. Take care brother.


----------



## Sylvain

Then suddenly one think: I have such and such question i should have asked him. 
My father died at the same age.
It is always too early.

Sorry for your loss Smitty.


----------



## TedT2

Sorry for your loss sir. I also lost my dad to cancer. Thoughts and prayers are with you


----------



## DavePolaschek

Sorry, Smitty. All his planes are sharp now, I'm guessing.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thank you, friends. Thanks very much for your thoughts and well wishes. He was a proud member of what I call the "Craftsman" generation, as in, Sears-Roebuck. Sears sold him and legions of men from his gereration all the power tools they needed to do any job. And he has a bunch of them. Stationary and hand-held. But 80% + of all has the Craftsman badge. He used them like crazy, renovating houses from top to bottom. Framing, trim, roofing, etc. etc. across a dozen-plus homes. I learned from all of it from a very young age. I owe him so very much…


----------



## corelz125

Sorry to hear about your loss Smitty but his skills live on with you.


----------



## EricFai

Sorry fir your loss Smitty, you will have many memories to cherish. Prayers and thoughts your way for the healing.


----------



## donwilwol

My prayers are with you and your family Smitty. He left a presence in all those tools, and left the knowledge to carry on a tradition. A legacy is all we have to leave, and that legacy is the story.


----------



## waho6o9

Sorry for your loss Smitty our condolences to you and your family.


----------



## BlasterStumps

My condolences to you and family Smitty. So sorry.


----------



## RWE

I am planning a plane till sometime in the semi-near future. I was just talking with my timber framing friend and he has some Douglas Fir that he just had milled for a barn door. I think the wood he is going to use is 1.5 inches thick and 14 inches wide. He has a "skinny" 1 inch thick by 12 inch wide, by 14 foot long board with my name on it.

I have never worked with Douglas Fir so I was wondering if any of you folks had used it. If so, what would it compare to as far as workabliity? I suspect it might be like Walnut.

Will it plane, hold dovetails etc. Is it brittle. I will go to the wood database, but I would rather hear from anyone here that has used it.

Only negative is that it is plainsawn. But other than periodic cloud patterns, it has some good grain showing.


----------



## Lazyman

I made my lathe cabinet with Douglas fir. It works similar to southern yellow pine. I plan to make more shop furniture from it in the future. The finer the grain the better it looks and vertical grain DF looks fantastic. If you rip the 14" boards in half and remove the middle 2 inches, you can often get nicer looking and more stable boards -the resulting boards are basically rift or quarter sawn grain.

Edit to add: the drawers on the cabinet were done using a dovetail router jig.


----------



## RWE

That is a very nice lathe cabinet. I like the look of the wood. I need to investigate more of the projects posted here.

Brit posted a plane till today and it got me thinking about my build. I am wanting a till/cabinet for the metal planes and maybe one for the the new to me molding planes.

For the molding planes, I was going to use some of the planes to embellish the storage cabinet, so the Douglas Fir might work well with the molders.


----------



## tshiker

My prayers are with you Smitty!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

To all who commented, thanks very much for your kindness. Nice to hear from each of you!


----------



## DanKrager

Somehow I missed the post about your father passing, Smitty. That's an unforgettable experience and that in itself is comforting to know that no matter how distracted one gets by anything, the memories will persist, even pop up unexpectedly from time to time. May you both live and rest in peace.

My father lived to 104 and died of "extremely old age" in quite good health. We were not enemies, but not real close either, yet the many memories are almost all happy ones. There's a couple tools that I take special care of and I just can't bring myself to dispose the mailbox name that identified our POB on a post at the farms.

DanK


----------



## terryR

My condolences, Smitty. CA is such an awful disease.


----------



## Notw

nearing completion on my hand plane till and realized I'm going to need some magnets to make the planes a little more secure, especially on the No. 4-1/2 and smaller. I was thinking countersunk magnets would be easier with less mess but I'm not opposed to using epoxy and regular magnets as well.

I was looking on KJ Magnetics and found some with a 7lb pull force (figured that would be enough?) Problem is UPS shipping is $23 on $25 worth of magnets and when I select USPS i get a message saying it could be delayed as much as a month. Does anyone know of other inexpensive places to buy magnets? Are the ones at Lowes and Home Depot any good? Thank you.


----------



## HokieKen

Same places I buy 90% of everything Notw: Amazon and Ebay.


----------



## RWE

> nearing completion on my hand plane till and realized I m going to need some magnets to make the planes a little more secure, especially on the No. 4-1/2 and smaller. I was thinking countersunk magnets would be easier with less mess but I m not opposed to using epoxy and regular magnets as well.
> 
> I was looking on KJ Magnetics and found some with a 7lb pull force (figured that would be enough?) Problem is UPS shipping is $23 on $25 worth of magnets and when I select USPS i get a message saying it could be delayed as much as a month. Does anyone know of other inexpensive places to buy magnets? Are the ones at Lowes and Home Depot any good? Thank you.
> 
> - Notw


I bought round magnets to use in small boxes as a catch for a swivel lid (guitar pick box). I got them on Amazon. so check Amazon and see what they offer. If you are a Prime member, two days and they will be there.

I have also used magnet strips from Harbor Freight. It just occurred to me that you might could make a groove/dado on the back side of your incline board and embed such a strip magnet, and have enough force to pull through the wood and not have any magnet showing on the face of the board.


----------



## Notw

Do you think there is a benefit with going with countersunk or should I just use regular magnets and epoxy?



> Same places I buy 90% of everything Notw: Amazon and Ebay.
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## HokieKen

I just used round magnets and epoxied them in on mine. But I don't see any disadvantage to c'sunk ones either.


----------



## KentInOttawa

I find that Lee Valley has reasonable shipping costs, although I don't recall who they use. They also sell some "accessories" for magnets that you may or may not find useful.


----------



## controlfreak

You will want the rare earth magnets for there superior pull. If you sink the magnet in and epoxy so that the top is flush with the plane bottom you will have maximum hold. As you go a little deeper you will start to lose power.


----------



## Mosquito

I bought some rather strong magnetic strips from McMaster, but I'm not sure you'd be able to use them from behind the till board in a dado/groove, unless you get all the way down to veneer thickness on the front. I'm more likely to make the groove in the front, and apply thin veneer over it instead.

But like CF mentioned, a magnet's rated pulling force is when it's in direct contact with the metal it's holding, so the further from it you get, the less pull force there is.

For the two tills I have that use magnets (my old travel till, and my Siegley display till), I just used round magnets glued in place from the front, and all have worked well. And of note, the travel till was completely vertical


----------



## RWE

I have an extra HF magnet strip. I will run a test later today and see what thickness of wood it can pull through and report back. I am motivated to find out since I am planning a till of my own. I had been thinking of round magnets embedded in a forstner bit hole for each plane slot. If the strip, which is very powerful, works, then that would be a nice alternative.


----------



## Notw

Sounds like I need to quit over thinking it with the countersunk and get regular disc magnets. Thanks everyone


----------



## adot45

I had used solid magnets inset into the wood and held in place with superglue, never had a problem with them coming out but I found (Amazon) rare earth magnets with a hole for mounting…..hassle free.


















I used them for the 2's


----------



## RWE

For what it is worth.

18 inch 9.4 pound pull HF Bar Magnet. $5.00


















I tested it with a 1/4 inch plywood between the magnet and the plane. It held a smoother and a jack in vertical position. However I should have not had the magnet in vertical position as well. So I went back to the shop and tried the experiment with the ply and magnet in the horizontal position. With less magnetic contact, the plane still held at a slight incline, but wanted to come lose at vertical.

Sorry but no pictures of horizontal position. It is hard to hold the camera and the planes and magnets all at the same time.

Since I plan to use an angled board, I might give this a try but as suggested, get the wood a bit thinner. I believe that 1/8 to 3/16 would work. I will have a clip at the bottom of the plane to lock the bottom, so this could work and would not have the magnets showing.


----------



## Mosquito

On my Siegley display case, the magnets are basically just for safety. The angle of it is enough to get them beyond the tipping point, so the forces on the magnet are minimal. RWE, you're likely in the same scenario from the sounds of it


----------



## RWE

I am a confused soul. I like Adot's cleats now. LOL. Looks like the bottom is shallow and the top cleat has enough clearance that you just lift the plane up a bit and pull out from the bottom. More work, but probably pretty nice in usage. You could throw a magnetic bar on the back for extra measure.


----------



## HokieKen

My magnets are fairly weak because the planes sit at a 5 degree angle. They will sit without falling, but like Mos' said, the magnets are for safety. If I were to accidentally bump one when removing another for example, the magnets avert disaster. If I were to build it with no magnets, I'd want the slope to be at least 10 degrees steeper.


----------



## adot45

Yep RWE, that's exactly how they work. I also have "the lean" working to hold them.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I am a confused soul. I like Adot s cleats now. LOL. Looks like the bottom is shallow and the top cleat has enough clearance that you just lift the plane up a bit and pull out from the bottom. More work, but probably pretty nice in usage. You could throw a magnetic bar on the back for extra measure.
> 
> - RWE


My old tool chest had an arrangement like that.










I found that less than convenient, mostly because this till was below bench height. That made for some really weird wrist manipulations and a few near misses, especially when I was tired. Over time I have switched to storing most planes on a shelf with the handles facing out. That's ready-for-use instead of for-display mode.










Since I've (mostly) retired that old tool box, I've moved my plane storage. Bench and block planes live on a shelf close to the bench. It ain't pretty, but it's quite easy to pick and replace the plane that I'm looking for.


----------



## RWE

While we are on the subject of Plane cabinets, do you think that *molding *planes need a door or would they be okay with an open cabinet? I figure if an open cabinet/shelf system is good enough for Stumpy Numbs, why not me. I also think Ole Stumpy has a better dust collection system than I do.

So should a molder cabinet have doors?

I need to shut up or put up it seems, but I am thinking the recently donated Douglas Fir board might be well used in a cabinet for the molding planes. If I have it correct, the Douglas Fir should plane well and the idea would be to do some molding plane profiles and bead board stuff etc. on that build.

The metal plane cabinet was to be a show thing. I plan on putting my favorites in that cabinet. I have visions of Walnut, Cherry or Maple wood, with a contrasting wood for the panels in the doors.

I expanded the Estate Sale cabinet that I have so that it holds smoothers straight in. So I have all my planes behind doors now and I am not in a big hurry but want to build something to hold the favorite metal planes, and something for the molders that I am still commissioning. Mostly for the fun of it.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Kent, your plane storage looks good to me. At the ready. I like it.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> While we are on the subject of Plane cabinets, do you think that molding planes need a door or would they be okay with an open cabinet? I figure if an open cabinet/shelf system is good enough for Stumpy Numbs, why not me. I also think Ole Stumpy has a better dust collection system than I do.


My (matched set of) moulding planes live in a suitcase-like box. When I'm going to be doing some serious work (mostly making new frame stock), that gets set on the auxiliary bench. About half of them are tuned up and ready to go , but I'm slowly working through the set.

But I also have four mismatched hollows and rounds in commonly used (for me) sizes which live on a shelf at the bottom of my main plane till. They get dusty, but they also get used frequently enough that the dust never gets too thick. And if they get knocked off the shelf, it's no big deal.


----------



## 33706

> While we are on the subject of Plane cabinets, do you think that molding planes need a door or would they be okay with an open cabinet? I figure if an open cabinet/shelf system is good enough for Stumpy Numbs, why not me. I also think Ole Stumpy has a better dust collection system than I do.
> 
> My (matched set of) moulding planes live in a suitcase-like box. When I'm going to be doing some serious work (mostly making new frame stock), that gets set on the auxiliary bench. About half of them are tuned up and ready to go , but I'm slowly working through the set.
> 
> But I also have four mismatched hollows and rounds in commonly used (for me) sizes which live on a shelf at the bottom of my main plane till. They get dusty, but they also get used frequently enough that the dust never gets too thick. And if they get knocked off the shelf, it's no big deal.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Dave,
I put all of my molding planes into a salvaged 24" cabinet, and then I found a similar-sized oak cabinet outside in the weather. I took the oak doors off and added them to the plane cabinet. It keeps the dust off, so that the price stickers stay adhered to them! wink,wink And the cabinet was moved away from the action, to a remote corner.


----------



## Notw

I ending up buying these magnets from Amazon yesterday, supposed to be here later today so we'll see if they really are strong as advertised.


----------



## adot45

Glad you found some magnets Notw, interested to see what you come up with.
Your link just takes me to an Amazon sign in…...?


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, it's a link to the order, not the product (which obviously none of us have access to the order except Notw)


----------



## Notw

my bad, try this one==


----------



## Mosquito

I've got a bunch of those that I had bought for similar use, "eventually". They seemed easier/quicker than gluing them in


----------



## DevinT

I just bought a bronze hand plane knob (low version) from Bench & Chisel (made by Reed Planes), and I can't wait to give it a test drive!


----------



## DavePolaschek

PK, my suitcase is about the same as one of your shelves, but it's just enough for my set of hollows and rounds, plus a rabbet, a pair of snipes bills, and eventually a pair of side rounds, when I get around to ordering them from Matt or making them myself. We'll see which happens first…


----------



## RWE

Well I have heard of teething irons. Are there toothing irons?? What is this? 5 1/2 inch long, two inch wide. Picked it up for a $1 because I could not figure out what it was. It was a standalone item, no plane body or other parts to reference with.

Suspect it was for some small wooden plan, bur perhaps a metal one. Don W., Bandit et. al. what was it used for. If the faceted point was indeed the cutter, I guess it would plow a channel for a sort of triangular bead board groove.

Is it just a normal iron with a user added point? I know that the enlarged o shaped opening was at the top of irons for one period and at the bottom for another, maybe that helps date this baby.


----------



## DevinT

Interesting, RWE.

Brass hand plane knob arrives Monday. Can hardly wait. They admitted that the first few units had casting issues that they claim have been fixed in later units.

They only had one follow knob for sale, which I bought. They still have a tall knob for sale on the bay.


----------



## 33706

> Well I have heard of teething irons. Are there toothing irons?? What is this? 5 1/2 inch long, two inch wide. Picked it up for a $1 because I could not figure out what it was. It was a standalone item, no plane body or other parts to reference with.
> 
> Suspect it was for some small wooden plan, bur perhaps a metal one. Don W., Bandit et. al. what was it used for. If the faceted point was indeed the cutter, I guess it would plow a channel for a sort of triangular bead board groove.
> 
> Is it just a normal iron with a user added point? I know that the enlarged o shaped opening was at the top of irons for one period and at the bottom for another, maybe that helps date this baby.
> 
> - RWE


I;ve seen only one plane, a Stanley #3 (yes, I know it wasn't 2" wide). I was working in a fabrication shop whose principal product was custom-made water tanks and fuel tanks, using primarily 1/2" .polypropylene as a construction material.
Mostly all joints were mitered to 45 degrees, usually on a shaper. But occasionally, like when no exposed joints were allowed, we'd run a Vee down to 1/16" and then bend the plastic to a 90 degree angle. Sometimes we'd use the plane, sometimes we'd run a custom ground Vee cutter on the table saw, cutting just shy of 1/2 inch.

The polypropylene tolerated bending nicely this way, and we'd weld small triangular rods softened with superheated nitrogen to gusset the welds. Fascinating, but all to say your cutter may have been modified for a purpose beyond woodworking.


----------



## Lazyman

Interesting. Looks like someone ground down a standard plane iron to cut V-shaped flutes or grooves. It wouldn't work unless they cut them end to end since you cannot make stopped grooves like that.


----------



## donwilwol

Looks like a heavy duty scratch stoch


----------



## DevinT

They broke the nib off their saw and needed a replacement lol


----------



## corelz125

The mysteries of days long gone. Sharpen it up give it a test drive see how it does.


----------



## RWE

> The mysteries of days long gone. Sharpen it up give it a test drive see how it does.
> 
> - corelz125


That is what I thought after turning it over in my head and before I read the comments here.

The only other thing I can think it might have been used for was cutting grooves for inlay work. I have never done inlay work but I think the shoulders are typically always square and not angled. There is a flat at the point of the triangle and a facet cut for that, so it would cut angled sides with a small flat bottom.

I will sharpen it and see what happens. Expect a report back sometime in the next year. LOL


----------



## RWE

Off subject, but I think I finally beat Bandit on the best deal for a tool (albeit, not a hand tool).

So I am in a new to me antique store in Northern Alabama and it was one of those that catered to the feminine tastes, no tools, some decent furniture. My wife is looking around and I struck a conversation with the lady clerk and a fellow who was hanging around the front check out area. I told the lady that i always looked for tools, planes, saws, chisels and such. So the fellow spoke up and said "So you are a woodworker, do you do mortise and tenon work." So I said yes. He says "Wait a minute, I have something to show you". He goes back and after 5 or 10 minutes reappears with a:

Leigh Super FMT

I had looked at Leigh dovetails jigs way back in the day and I knew the name. The fellow invites me back to his shop in the back of the antique store and he has a nice setup. He says, "I have this jointer I never use and I will never use that jig, I prefer pocket hole screws. You can have it. I had a box that I cannot find that has some more parts for it. Looks like someone has moved the box. I got it at an Estate Sale and I would prefer someone have it that will use it."

Paul Sellers was talking to me. He was saying you can cut a knife wall and saw to the line and use your shoulder plane and get the same result that you get with that jig, why bother.

Then I could see a ladder back chair, angled legs. I could see shop stools with angled legs and angled ended ribs at foot level.

So I graciously accepted the free (needing a few parts though) Leigh Frame Mortise and Tenon jig. They are no longer sold, but the parts they use are shared with the Pro FMT so the parts are readily available.

So there you go Bandit. I got a $400 plus tool for free. Now I don't have to be jealous of all your finds.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> The mysteries of days long gone. Sharpen it up give it a test drive see how it does.
> 
> - corelz125
> 
> That is what I thought after turning it over in my head and before I read the comments here.
> 
> The only other thing I can think it might have been used for was cutting grooves for inlay work. I have never done inlay work but I think the shoulders are typically always square and not angled. There is a flat at the point of the triangle and a facet cut for that, so it would cut angled sides with a small flat bottom.
> 
> I will sharpen it and see what happens. Expect a report back sometime in the next year. LOL
> 
> - RWE


Looks like you can use it to make a small chamfer plane. That V with a flat is an ideal shape for that.


----------



## Notw

I don't have a full review on the magnets holding power yet, I decided to prefinish the strips between the planes and the back board first, but I can tell you they are fragile, hand tightening one with a screwdriver shattered one of them so I have to be very delicate with them.


----------



## DevinT

I came up with a unique idea for a hand plane till that I have never seen done before. What if the till held the planes upright at a steep (but not fully vertical) angle and behind that was a support arm that rode on a bearing to a linkage that provided the ability to pull the plane down, out, and toward you. When extended, the till box would make it much easier to lift the and set the plane down.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Devin you come up with ideas left and right!! However, I think that's a solution looking for a problem. I don't know why it would be hard to just set the plane on the till and pull it off. Unless you wanted multiple layers of planes and had it cycle through ones in the back like a juke box or similar?

With that aside, you ever get that brass knob?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Duplicate post.


----------



## DevinT

Going to pick up the bronze knob now, hopefully.

I think you misunderstood my impetus for making the drawer extend. It's not for ease of getting it out of the till, it's so I don't bang them against each other and allow each box to be removed from the till, facilitate storage underneath, wanton rearranging, and all around good organization.

Any idiot can pull a tilted plane out of a till without difficulty, it's what you do with it once it is out and how you get it back in and how much space it takes.


----------



## DevinT

Saw one guy who made the entire tilt attach to the back with a piano hinge. He didn't even demonstrate lifting it in the video because, DUH, that thing has got to be so heavy by having all the planes on it. Silly really. Hinge each one or some linkage for each one.


----------



## DevinT

It has arrived!


----------



## DevinT




----------



## DevinT

It passes the fit test after some removal of an error that prevented the barrel nut from recessing properly.

However, I didn't want this monster to harm the finish on my wonderfully finished No 5, so I thought it would be best to put a washer under this thing to protect the japanning.

I didn't have a washer in that size and I don't (yet) own a washer cutter for my hand brace (it's on my list).

So I quickly devised a way to make a leather washer out of a strip of leather from my last project (marking knife for the measuring/marking tool swap). This ended up working out fantastically. The japanning is protected and the knob does not spin in even the slightest. I think I might do this on more hand planes (even ones without bronze knobs).


----------



## DevinT

So, it's pretty much unanimous that I should polish this thing up to a mirror finish, right?


----------



## Johnny7

> So, it's pretty much unanimous that I should polish this thing up to a mirror finish, right?
> 
> - DevinT


Right!


----------



## DevinT

So, let it be … getting late though, will pick back up tomorrow


----------



## bandit571

Now will come the hard part…..keeping the Brass shined up…..


----------



## DevinT

Good ol' paste wax


----------



## Notw

Originally I wasn't too keen on the look but polished….I do like shiny things


----------



## Mosquito

definitely still not for me. I think cast iron would look better, but I'm not sure why I'd want one instead of wood


----------



## Lazyman

Brass instruments are coated with lacquer of some kind to keep them shiny. It probably also prevents the brass from reacting with the oils and salts in your skin and causing your hands to turn green. An alternative to lacquer is to have it silver or gold plated. 

Note that leather in constant contact can cause steel to rust. The Japanning should prevent that but keep an eye on it.


----------



## Johnny7

My understanding is that the knob is made of bronze, not brass. (though both alloys contain copper)


----------



## Johnny7

.


----------



## theoldfart

Rosewood with light and dark grain is my preference. I just prefer the look of it.


----------



## bandit571

That, or get the large can of Brasso…..


----------



## controlfreak

Sorry, I am busy buffing my plane knobs today.

Don't go there, I am not going to say "buffing my knob"


----------



## Notw

> Sorry, I am busy buffing my plane knobs today.
> 
> Don t go there, I am not going to say "buffing my knob"
> 
> - controlfreak


LOL


----------



## DevinT

Correct, bronze.


> Sorry, I am busy buffing my plane knobs today.
> 
> Don t go there, I am not going to say "buffing my knob"
> 
> - controlfreak


ROFL


----------



## HokieKen

I like the look and feel of wood handles on planes. I wish I did like the feel of metal so I could add some weight to the front of my smoothers. I like a little mass on those guys.

I prefer dark woods as far as looks go and I like really dense ones like Rosewoods because the knobs look uniform. Woods like Mahogany are always noticeable to me because the end grain and long grain sections of the turned parts always look different like it's wearing horizontal stripes.

If you're going to paint it or lacquer it within an inch of its life though, I think you should use a cast knob instead of wood.

Great job polishing that bronze up Devin! I hope you're wearing some lung protection? Cast bronze typically has some amount of lead in it. And it's usually as much as government regulations will let you get away with. So if someone's casting those in their garage in small batches, there's a good chance it's a significant amount.


----------



## DevinT

Now he tells me I should wear a mask!

Day 2, getting closer to finished


----------



## DevinT




----------



## bandit571

Next…..need a Bronze Tote to match….


----------



## DevinT

Crazy talk!


----------



## Thedustydutchman

I'm not super into the metal knob for myself but hot damn does that ever look sweet!


----------



## donwilwol

My favorite:


----------



## DevinT

DonW, is that 440?


----------



## EricFai

Nice an shinny Devin, nice job.


----------



## donwilwol

> DonW, is that 440?
> 
> - DevinT


 it's aluminum.


----------



## corelz125

You guys woodworkers or jewelry makers with all these bright shinny tools. Don thats a user made or a stanley made knob?


----------



## Sylvain

Now if you have a cold workshop you can do this

Difficult to do on a knob though. Stiched leather might work.


----------



## donwilwol

> You guys woodworkers or jewelry makers with all these bright shinny tools. Don thats a user made or a stanley made knob?
> 
> - corelz125


A machinist friend made.


----------



## putty

For you Devin, I picked up this No. 6 at an antique store about 10 years ago


----------



## Notw

I like the shine Devin but I am partial to handles and knobs being walnut


----------



## DevinT

putty, wow, 10 years ago? That is certainly before REED planes was making these knobs. Is that brass or bronze, I wonder.

What did you think of the additional weight?


----------



## DevinT

Thanks Notw.

It's not about the looks though. Without the additional weight, the plane deflects out of the cut (constantly) in hardwoods. The plane is practically unusable with a wooden knob for the woods I need it for.


----------



## bandit571

IF when pressing down on the front of that plane….does the rear end lift up? IF so, the mouth area is too high….IF sitting with the tail end flat on a board, is the front under the knob NOT in contact with the board? Hmmm?


----------



## putty

For you Devin, I picked up this No. 6 at an antique store about 10 years ago


----------



## putty

oops… sorry about the double post


----------



## putty

Devin, I don't know if it is brass or bronze, though i suspect it is brass. I assume my knob is pretty old…maybe 100 years ?

I never got around to restoring it, it lives on a shelf, so I cannot comment on the additional weight. The No.6 is a pretty heavy plane to begin with.

I just got it out to weigh it… I was mistaken, it is a No. 5 1/2 with a corrugated sole
it weighs 6 lbs 3 oz


----------



## Mosquito

What are you planing that you're having issues with? I've planed some pretty tough wood without issue, and never once have thought a heavier knob would fix any issues I've had. The plane iron, if set properly, should pull itself in to the wood… Paul Sellers has demonstrated this by pulling a plane by the knob across a board and getting a consistent shaving.

Sounds like more of a setup issue than a knob issue, I'm with Bandit on that one. I'd lean more towards how the iron and frog is set up than flatness of the sole though


----------



## DevinT

Figured walnut with reversing cathedral grain and knots. The Veritas No 4 handled it like a boss


----------



## DevinT

You will notice a few things in the video by Paul Sellers that gives away the fact that the knowledge he is trying to impart is incomplete.

He is edge jointing, not surface planing.

He is using what looks to be pine.


----------



## DevinT

There is no substitute for actual experience. I'd like to see Sellers try that party trick with my figured walnut board. Won't happen. People can claim my setup is wrong, my technique is wrong, my toe is not coplaner with the mouth, or any number of things.

Get on YouTube and put your money where your mouth is and show me that party trick on the face of some figured wood with a stock No 5.

Then I will believe there is potentially something wrong with this sanssoo plane


----------



## BlasterStumps

you might try a toothing plane first. Sure worked for me.


----------



## DevinT

And now for something completely different …

I welcome my new High Entropy overlords. Please, revolutionize my world with new plane blades that only need to be sharpened once a millennia

New High Entropy Alloys


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Sigh, this post will fall on deaf ears but let's say that knob ups the weight two pounds, it doesn't but let's say it does. From there you take your plane for a ride and it magically digs in and takes clean cuts because you now have two more pounds of pressure against the wood? That's amazing.

Your little figured walnut is like pine to me. I work with eucalyptus here in AZ really often, literally it's in almost everything I make. It's awesome but it's tough. English walnut is the hardest common walnut species iirc at something like 1200 janka. The river red gum I use constantly is something like 2100 janka iirc. Can I do the Paul sellers trick on it? Nope, of course not. Makes sense that I can't. Edge planing face planing. Doesn't matter. Do you think sellers does all his planing with a string?

Sansoo didn't build a crappy plane, you just have something off in the setup regardless if you want to admit it or not. ANYTHING can be planned with the right setup. Look at all the perfectly fantastic uglies Bandit uses every day!! Most of mine however are new planes, I only have two rehabs. I do think the Veritas planes help me in my particular case but NOTHING wrong with rehabs especially with common wood like figured walnut.


----------



## DevinT

Your Eucalyptus is pine to my Cocobolo (but contrary to popular belief, Cocobolo actually planes easier than most woods).

Ever wonder why woodworkers of yester year would ship a tiny coupon of some wood (known or otherwise) to another woodworker to see if they could work it?

Because every tree is different and I love how you know all about that board even though you've never touched it. Good job at being a know-it-all and double congrats on turning this into some kind of competition when all I did was mention that the plane kept pulling out of the cut on that board and I think it might be a little easier to keep in the cut.

Now this is some kind of competition? What the hell is wrong with you?

Maybe you just like sucking the joy out of things? I really don't care what your impetus is. Fall on deaf ears? Damn straight - I didn't ask for this ********************.


----------



## Mosquito

> You will notice a few things in the video by Paul Sellers that gives away the fact that the knowledge he is trying to impart is incomplete.
> 
> He is edge jointing, not surface planing.
> 
> He is using what looks to be pine.
> 
> - DevinT


Unless you actually watch it, where he does face planing later 

My point was, the angle of the plane iron draws it in, that's why you don't just go at it with a chisel bevel up. It was a physics demonstration of it, not saying it applied to your particular plane or wood. Didn't know that was such a sensitive subject, sorry

One difference between Veritas and old Stanley? About .09" of iron thickness, for starters; and that can matter. In heavy cuts it manifests as chatter, in light cuts it does what you're describing. My guess not seeing your setup, would be the frog is too far forward to close the mouth, and the iron is unsupported between the frog and the work piece. This is why on my Stanley planes I didn't worry about getting the mouth as tight as I could, I aimed to have the sole of the plane under the frog support the edge of the iron to avoid this issue. Might be worth trying to tinker with your frog/iron setup, which doesn't have anything to do with the plane, its flatness, how well the frog seats to the plane, or the iron to the frog.


----------



## DevinT

Before you edit the ******************** out of that, let me memorialize the parts where you belittle me:

"Your little figured walnut is like pine to me."

I don't have a dick so dick comparisons aren't going to go far with me young man.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

No editing needed. Cocobolo wasn't in the original post by the way. What you aren't understanding is people here were trying to assist you, help you, but it falls on deaf ears and you automatically get defensive and you just plane "know it all" but you don't. You read some stuff online and spout it as your own. Carry on, enjoy the pedestal you put yourself on. Everyone is wasting their effort on you.


----------



## DevinT

Please point to where I asked for help, needed help, or wanted help

EDIT: I didn't link to anyone like Paul Sellers - it seems like you are confusing me with someone else because I am not the one out here trotting what other people say into the thread like it's God's word. Hypocrite.


----------



## DevinT

Oh now that's a classy move I love when it gets trotted out …

When someone didn't ask for advice, doesn't need it, and you throw your opinion around like YOU know it all, and then I call you on it, you try to flip the script and not ONLY claim that it is I who know it all, that it is I that get defensive, but you then presume to know what I have read, that what I am saying is not from experience, and that I am some tool repeating something that is counter to what you want to say as you make this narrative all about YOU.

Peace.


----------



## Mosquito

Trying to realign things a little…
Problem statement:



> It's not about the looks though. Without the additional weight, the plane deflects out of the cut (constantly) in hardwoods. The plane is practically unusable with a wooden knob for the woods I need it for.
> 
> - DevinT


Did it fix that problem for you? Lots of arguing here, but it's purely theoretical until we hear that it either did or did not fix the issue. If it does, I would love to see a break down of how/why, because it confounds me, and I would like to learn


----------



## DevinT

I just put the knob yesterday.

But let me drop everything I am doing including my 1 year old child to go plane some damn wood to placate some people on the Internet.

Please.


----------



## controlfreak

I don't think I saw "Do it now" but may need to re-read the post.


----------



## DevinT

If it doesn't fix the problem, I won't keep it on the plane. It looks like a GD door knob and I hate it.

Literally, if it doesn't fix the problem, then it's coming off and it's going in the trash. I don't give a ******************** about the looks and I don't care about anything other than the fact that:

1. It performs like ******************** despite being 100% dead ********************ing flat within an inch of its life

2. The f'd up Veritas No 4 that was literally heaved across the room on accident by previous owner and fell on concrete does a fantastic job

3. I have noticed two things in comparing the Veritas 4 to the Stanley No 5; weight and lateral - when sanssoo sold me the plane he admitted the lateral was f'd but it's just cosmetic that you have to push it to one side to make the blade line up

There is no god damn way this plane should not perform.

I don't want any advice. I don't want any commentary. I will diagnose the issue to completion without any help.


----------



## DevinT

For the record, we may never know if the knob stops the skipping in THAT board because Hell will freeze over before I plane that board again since I got it glass-smooth with the No 4.

Deuces.


----------



## controlfreak

But its a LJ forum, all we do here is comment, help and support each other. If I can't do that, I may as well get back to work.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Work is overrated.


----------



## Mosquito

Agreed, community forums often aren't the right place for fire and forget. My twitter and instagram accounts are usually pretty good for that though lol My son's current favorite book seems applicable here, but I don't want to bring it up lol


----------



## Mosquito

> Work*ing* is overrated.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


I prefer that


----------



## bigblockyeti

Work without working, yeah I'd take some of that but I earned (and paid for) an engineering degree that I now get to use to pay for a whole bunch of underwater basket weaving degrees.


----------



## DevinT

Don't you dare try and lump me in with millennials and their craptastic behaviors. This isn't about fire and forget. It's about presumptuous behavior from people interacting with me like I am under 40. Maybe a little respect will go a long way by acknowledging that I am a person and not calling me a vapid idiot (not in so many words, but that's how I received the message from Kelley, and honestly, I will have none of it).


----------



## controlfreak

I never dreamed HOYD could receive a penalty flag but I am sure we are close. Lets let this go back to planes before Cricket gets involved.


----------



## Mosquito

> Work without working, yeah I d take some of that but I earned (and paid for) an engineering degree that I now get to use to pay for a whole bunch of underwater basket weaving degrees.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


Just wait until Texas expands that class on Taylor Swift lyrics in to an entire degree, at least baskets are tangible lol


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Bandit, what's on your bench today?


----------



## controlfreak

> Bandit, what's on your bench today?
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


I see what you did there! Nice


----------



## HokieKen

Ugh. I may as well get a Facebook account.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Sorry about that gang, wasn't my intention.


----------



## 33706

I looked up *"Narcissist"* in the dictionary. In it was a photo of a Lumberjack.


----------



## bigblockyeti

> Sorry about that gang, wasn't my intention.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


You did nothing wrong.


----------



## bandit571

Careful what one asks for….









and..









and..









and..









Guess this counts, as well? Since the subject was Stanley No. 5 Jack planes..









T-19 and a T- 12….









and…









Type 12 is missing it's lateral lever…not a big deal in use..









White Oak jaws for the vise, end grain is pine…

So..who peed in whose Wheaties? The 2 smoothers at the start? Stanley No. 3, T-11, and a Millers Falls No. 8, T-2….that big plane down on the shelf? Stanley No. 8c


----------



## Lazyman

Déjà vu


----------



## Mosquito

Seeing that Aluminum 101 always makes me happy lol


----------



## Cricket

In this community members are expected to treat each other with respect at all times.

There will always be disagreements and fusses between members. It is simply human nature. We truly encourage members to discuss and openly share their thoughts on a topic. It is how we all learn and life would be pretty boring if we all felt the same way.

That being said, this is not grade school. We don't gang up in little groups to take sides or encourage others to do the same.

If you were at a local get together and got into a disagreement with someone, I am guessing you would take it outside instead of ruining the party for everyone. I expect the same here.

If you are not able to discuss a topic respectfully then you need to remove yourself from the topic. If you are unable to discuss a topic with a specific member then you need to choose to ignore that member or take the discussion off the boards. If you are unable to do either of these things, I will help you to do so.

- Cricket


----------



## TedT2

Wow! On HPOYD? That's a first. Unreal.


----------



## Mosquito

> Wow! On HPOYD? That's a first. Unreal.
> 
> - TedT2


Definitely not a first lol


----------



## corelz125

Well back to our regularly scheduled program of old tools. Lots of Miller Falls tools in this months list. Any temptation's Kenny?


----------



## Cricket

> I never dreamed HOYD could receive a penalty flag but I am sure we are close. Lets let this go back to planes before Cricket gets involved.
> 
> - controlfreak


Thank you.


----------



## 33706

Here's my #55, with a bunch of extra pieces and 4 sets of cutters. The case I built just fits on a 36" wide shelf.


----------



## 33706

Grrr double post.


----------



## HokieKen

Nope nothing jumped out at me Corelz.


----------



## corelz125

The featured plane of the month was interesting
Nice set up there Poopie. I like the stickers


----------



## Lazyman

Sweet box! Were the logos done with onion paper?


----------



## 33706

> The featured plane of the month was interesting
> Nice set up there Poopie. I like the stickers
> 
> - corelz125


Thanks, corelz!
The images are easy to make. Find an image you like and print it on onion skin paper with an inkjet printer. Trim away the excess paper. Staples has onion skin paper.

When your project is ready for its first coat of polyurethane, place the print directly on the wet surface, align it and drive out the air bubbles.

The onion skin becomes transparent, leaving your printed image nicely on the surface. Try it!! I posted a quick how-to on this, probably 5,000 posts ago.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Modded my rounding plane - turns out to end up with straight dowels you need more of an outfeed lenth than I'd built it with.

So it's now got an ugly little sidecar attached to keep the dowel straight as it cuts it, must remember to keep at least an inch of the slot untapered on the next one.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Onion skin paper? Never heard of such a thing! Thats definitely going in the "gonna try on the next project" file for sure.


----------



## donwilwol

Yikes. Glad I was busy today. Are we back sharing our tools?

So I will be moving and shop space is getting a little smaller, so I decided to hold a Barn sale and sell some stuff to save on moving.

What I want to know is why the hell you guys let me pile so much crap up. I dragged out 9 marking gauges. I didn't dare count the saw vises. Hand planes I understand. Everybody needs a pile of those, but I haven't even scratched the surface.

Feel free to stop by. 
https://www.timetestedtools.net/barn-sale/


----------



## corelz125

Mike its like a pencil sharpener on steroids


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Oh boy if that barn sale was closer I'd be there! Looks like lots of good stuff with very reasonable prices. I'm in love with that tall cabinet!


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Barn sale? Where is the barn?
Didn't see any pictures showing the barn. 
How big is the barn? How much? What condition?

Oh, wait. Is the sale inside the barn? #IAMAKLUTZ


----------



## Lazyman

Good thing I didn't know where you live when I was in Poughkeepsie a couple of weeks ago, Don. I might have made a detour.


----------



## corelz125

Don where are the auto sets hiding?


----------



## TedT2

> Wow! On HPOYD? That's a first. Unreal.
> 
> - TedT2
> 
> Definitely not a first lol
> 
> - Mosquito


Lol that is true…just been a while…usually a pretty tame topic….


----------



## 33706

> Onion skin paper? Never heard of such a thing! Thats definitely going in the "gonna try on the next project" file for sure.
> 
> - Thedustydutchman


you can buy Onion Skin paper at Staples, a folder of 30 sheets for $6.00 or so. It looks like tracing paper almost, and is definitely transparent once you get poly under it and over it. Use an inkjet printer that doesn't try to chew up paper.

I always do my 3 coats of shellac first and let it dry, then lightly sand with @220 or #0000 steel wool. Then do a generous coat of OIL-BASED poly, put your graphics on and do a second coat while the first is still wet. You'll be able to slide your image around to get it perfectly where you want it, for the first 10 minutes or so, until the poly begins to set up.

Yeah, let's see some projects with applied graphics!! I just repainted a small metal toolbox, and put my own-made STP images on it!! Kool!

https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/318247


----------



## bandit571

Will try to go Plane Shopping this weekend…That annual Tractor Fest Flea Market….have to get a plane or two to ship out for Santa…..As soon as I figure out which ones to send…

And, yes I will take the camera along….


----------



## ac0rn

Hoosick Falls? Heck that is 3000 miles from here. Though the very best apples are grown an hour west at the Double Dutch Orchard in. Esperance NY


----------



## 33706

> Yikes. Glad I was busy today. Are we back sharing our tools?
> 
> So I will be moving and shop space is getting a little smaller, so I decided to hold a Barn sale and sell some stuff to save on moving.
> 
> What I want to know is why the hell you guys let me pile so much crap up. I dragged out 9 marking gauges. I didn t dare count the saw vises. Hand planes I understand. Everybody needs a pile of those, but I haven t even scratched the surface.
> 
> Feel free to stop by.
> https://www.timetestedtools.net/barn-sale/
> 
> - Don W


Yeah, I had a two-day garage sale extravaganza in mid-August. Got rid of a ton of stuff, and discovered that I really did not have as much of an emotional attachment to stuff that I thought I did. Still got 3X the stuff unsold, will do it again after Labor Day Weekend.
*Don,* I had friends who lived on the opposite side of the Hoosac Tunnel in Clarksburg, MA. Near Mt Greylock. Cool place, good times. I'd come to your barn sale if I could, now that I have some room!!


----------



## adot45

> The images are easy to make. Find an image you like and print it on onion skin paper with an inkjet printer. Trim away the excess paper. Staples has onion skin paper.
> 
> When your project is ready for its first coat of polyurethane, place the print directly on the wet surface, align it and drive out the air bubbles.
> 
> The onion skin becomes transparent, leaving your printed image nicely on the surface. Try it!! I posted a quick how-to on this, probably 5,000 posts ago.
> 
> - poopiekat


Those look really nice poopiekat, and it certainly looks easy enough to try. Don't have a Staples store near me so I was wondering if some other papers I see online would work. Rice paper? vellum? 30 sheets from $36 to $45 online for onion skin paper, yikes, although I guess that would be pretty much a lifetime supply…..


----------



## Lazyman

I bought some onion skin paper on Amazon ($12) right after the last time (last year) someone posted something where they used that technique (I have not tried it yet). It looks like the one I bought is no longer available and I do not see it on the Staples website anymore either. The other items listed on Amazon are crazy expensive. eBay or Etsy might be a source. Maybe some of the crafting supply places like Michael's carry it. Vellum paper may be an alternative?


----------



## Sylvain

I am surprised "onion skin" paper is still available.
It was used with carbon paper to get multiple copies when one used typewriters.
Although, i guess, it could also be used with daisy wheel printers.
There were various colors and a light blue variety for "air mail".

$36 for 30 sheets, that is really very expensive. That is because it is now rarely used.

Wrapping tissue paper might be a much cheaper alternative if it doesn't clog the printer. But one would have to cut it to the format adequate for the printer.
Hallmark 100 sheet 20"X20" for about 10$.


----------



## Lazyman

I think that the Onion Skin paper has cotton fibers in it that make it stronger than tissue paper would be. I would try vellum paper as a cheaper alternative.


----------



## adot45

Thank you guys, I'm going to try "something" as I think this is a worthwhile technique to use.


----------



## donwilwol

> Don where are the auto sets hiding?
> 
> - corelz125


They're in the "I'm ok moving them" pile. There are a quite a few things I am just not ready to part with yet and they are coming with me!!


----------



## EricFai

Tape the tissue paper to a regular sheet and try to print that way. Giving it just a bit more strength.


----------



## adot45

I considered that too Eric, I think that's a good idea.


----------



## 33706

> I am surprised "onion skin" paper is still available.
> It was used with carbon paper to get multiple copies when one used typewriters.
> Although, i guess, it could also be used with daisy wheel printers.
> There were various colors and a light blue variety for "air mail".
> 
> $36 for 30 sheets, that is really very expensive. That is because it is now rarely used.
> 
> Wrapping tissue paper might be a much cheaper alternative if it doesn t clog the printer. But one would have to cut it to the format adequate for the printer.
> Hallmark 100 sheet 20"X20" for about 10$.
> 
> - Sylvain


If your local 'Staples' doesn't have onion skin paper, I'd try an artist's supply retailer. Should be a lot less than a buck a sheet. You can do multiple images on a single sheet, rather than kill a whole sheet for just one image.


----------



## adot45

Yep, I considered that Eric, I think it's a good idea.


----------



## Sylvain

I just have found an interesting post from Richard Maguire "the English woodworker".

https://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/cap-iron-fatigue/

I conclude from what he says: Devin is right when the cap-iron is set very near to the edge of the cutting-iron and Paul Sellers is right when the cap-iron is set further away.

Note that Paul Sellers, if I understand him correctly, does not use the cap-iron very near to the edge. He uses other tricks when need be; like:





I hope this will reconcile the points of view and will serve everybody.


----------



## bandit571

Seen today….a plastic tray ( like a bakery would use) filled with block planes….and…a Jack plane with a stamped steel frog ( Toad?) Managed to just walk on by…









Then these 3..









Jointer, Jack, and smoother….


----------



## RWE

> Don where are the auto sets hiding?
> 
> - corelz125


Speaking of Auto Sets, I found a real nice one today.



















Note the minor damage on the side of the body and the fine repair. You hardly notice it. And it definitely has that patina thing working.

First one I have ever seen in the wild. It peaked my interest. Now I have something else to obsess about.


----------



## BlasterStumps

RWE, there's a 718 on Etsy. Only $165 + shipping and tax. Good start to your collection. : )


----------



## BlasterStumps

Found this Stanley Bailey 4 1/2C type 9 today. I think it might be worth cleaning up. Blade needs the usual work. Some surface rust on the casting but mostly just covered with patina. Has a thick sole similar to the No 4 I found a while back. About twice as thick as most of my Stanley smoothers. Might make a good user.


----------



## donwilwol

> Don where are the auto sets hiding?
> 
> - corelz125
> 
> Speaking of Auto Sets, I found a real nice one today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note the minor damage on the side of the body and the fine repair. You hardly notice it. And it definitely has that patina thing working.
> 
> First one I have ever seen in the wild. It peaked my interest. Now I have something else to obsess about.
> 
> - RWE


Now we have a challenge worth paying attention to!


----------



## RWE

> Don where are the auto sets hiding?
> 
> - corelz125
> 
> Speaking of Auto Sets, I found a real nice one today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note the minor damage on the side of the body and the fine repair. You hardly notice it. And it definitely has that patina thing working.
> 
> First one I have ever seen in the wild. It peaked my interest. Now I have something else to obsess about.
> 
> - RWE
> 
> Now we have a challenge worth paying attention to!
> 
> - Don W


I hate to say it, but I passed on that project. If I could weld and grind out the weld to hide the broken body, I might would have given it a try. It was intriguing and it will probably be there the next time I go by. Lumber would not be a problem.

Now that I am going with a more Sansoo approach on many planes, I do not fear the rust as much as I would have. I would take that down to clean metal and sand it to a fine git. The B-Plane I am working on did have deep pitting on the sides and I was able to get 95% of that out.

What say you Kenny? Can you weld a plane body? Any body else here that could fix what appeared to be a seamless and tight crack in that side. Is that an easy enough repair for a welding shop?

I am about to talk myself in to going back and getting it. LOL


> RWE, there s a 718 on Etsy. Only $165 + shipping and tax. Good start to your collection. : )
> 
> - BlasterStumps


That project above was $15.00. More in my budget and half the fun for me is finding them in the wild. I appreciate the note. Jim Bode had one for just over a grand when I was looking into them after getting home.


----------



## donwilwol

All you need is a stick welder, some nickel rod and some patience. I've welded a few. Not always pretty but always a user. If your lucky enough that it's a weld that can be painted, it's pretty easy to hide. On the side it will show, but it will hold.


----------



## bandit571

Walked away from this one…for some reason…









Couldn't make up my mind…so I passed on these, as well..


----------



## HokieKen

What Don said RWE. Some guys can weld or braze cast iton really well. Not me but some guys…


----------



## DavePolaschek

That's why you need to look at transitionals, RWE. No welding needed, just a little wood glue. And if it's too far gone for glue, just grab a tubafor and make a new body. ;-P

I joke, perhaps.


----------



## bandit571

Dave over at Chisel & Forge had a video out a couple years ago…about how he silver brazed a Millers Falls No. 14…..that is still in my plane til…


----------



## corelz125

Surprisingly that 714 has the part thats usually missing on a lot of them. That top adjusting nut is gone quite often. I would of passed on that one also. Its also missing the iron which might cost triple of what you pay for the plane.


----------



## RWE

> Surprisingly that 714 has the part thats usually missing on a lot of them. That top adjusting nut is gone quite often. I would of passed on that one also. Its also missing the iron which might cost triple of what you pay for the plane.
> 
> - corelz125


I have been researching it. I may pick it up for parts, but the iron is a deal breaker on restoring it. I found a body with good wood for $35 but no iron and no cap. I could put the cap from the $15 plane and that would work, but the only iron I see is around $40. So that puts me at $90 plus to get enough parts to salvage the plane.. I can buy a complete one for $130-$150.

Not as much fun, but I think I will pick one up on Ebay to beat down the demons that are screeching at me and see what they are about. Seems like a Gage on steroids.

I have a friend that could mig weld it, but I don't know that I could live with the ugly repair.

I have never looked into Auto Sets before, just have seen the name mentioned. So this is all new to me.


----------



## corelz125

$90 for an auto set isn't a bad price. $15 for a lever cap is pretty good.


----------



## corelz125

Theres been a couple if Sargent 514s on eBay recently but the kids would have to not eat for a few weeks. At the prices they're going for.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here are a few pictures of the new-to-me 4 1/2C after applying some elbow grease. May not be the prettiest but it sure made me smile when I made a few test cuts with it.


----------



## adot45

That looks great, very nice job!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks adot.


----------



## RWE

> Here are a few pictures of the new-to-me 4 1/2C after applying some elbow grease. May not be the prettiest but it sure made me smile when I made a few test cuts with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BlasterStumps


That is a fine looking plane. Wood and body look great.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks RWE.


----------



## bandit571

Came home today…and got a good cleaning…









8" Fulton Draw Knife…









According to the stamp…back is flat..









Might find some use for this…


----------



## EricFai

Bandit, that cleaned up nicely.


----------



## corelz125

That 4 1/2 looks good to me blaster.


----------



## terryR

Packing 100 planes in a hurry is an easy way to loose small parts. Now I know.

But, working on planes is a never ending hobby/passion for me. This is some of the most oily Ebony I've seen; stains everything it touches. Should look lovely when finished…


----------



## BlasterStumps

A question for the experts: What can I put on beech wood that would look something close to what Stanley used on their transitional planes. The one I am working on looks like it may have had a provincial coloring to the finish. I tried a gel stain I have and it made it look awful. Doesn't seem like a stain is what I want. Maybe a colored lacquer or ?
Please excuse the tote. I robbed it from something else and need to work on it or replace it.


----------



## 33706

> A question for the experts: What can I put on beech wood that would look something close to what Stanley used on their transitional planes. The one I am working on looks like it may have had a provincial coloring to the finish. I tried a gel stain I have and it made it look awful. Doesn t seem like a stain is what I want. Maybe a colored lacquer or ?
> 
> - BlasterStumps


In my opinion, that tote came from a much more recent plane, perhaps not even a Stanley. Stanley Transitionals had a very sparse finish, the best survivors I have seen did look like BLO as others have suggested. Possibly after which they got a thin wash of shellac. 
When I build or restore transitional bodies, I go for three or four coats of polyurethane over orange shellac, sanded to mirror smooth between coats. Sadly nobody wins a prize for "best looiking Transitional" so just go with whatever you find most pleasing to your eye. Do you need a proper tote?


----------



## corelz125

For wood planes I usially use blo. I don't buy many trannies or wood planes.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

I have found BLO and paste wax works really well on wood planes. It ends up being close ish to what they are "supposed" to look like and feels really nice as well. However I have never taken one down to that fresh of a finish. I leave some patina on so that may make a difference


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here's the tote that was on the transitional. Or, what is left of it anyway. I may find some wood to fix it although, i am not a big fan of the early totes. Just never found them comfortable to hold. I will do my best to fix it when I can. That reddish stained one is just one I robbed from somewhere. 
Your guess is as good as mine as to what type of wood the plane body is. I thought possibly beech but you may be right, it might be something else. 
I learned a good lesson on this one, don't mess with the original patina. Whatever wood it is, it hates stain.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> What can I put on beech wood that would look something close to what Stanley used on their transitional planes.


Oil, time and dirt, Mike. At least on the transitionals I've been playing with lately. Take away the dirt (trying to leave as much original finish as possible), and they're more like this color:










Rather than BLO, I've been experimenting with tung oil mixed 50-50 with mineral spirits. The trannies I've worked on have soaked it up like our plants here in the desert. Couple three coats of that, and they're looking pretty good, but nothing like they did before I cleaned them (usually just with heavily diluted citrasolv).

I'll probably use a light wash of garnet shellac and see how that looks on the one I'm currently working on, but I haven't had anything I'm pleased enough with to show off yet. Then again, I've been bottom feeding on eBay, so I didn't start with much fancy, either.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Dave are you doing full restore on yours or leaving the patina?

I agree about the original totes on transitionals I've never really liked them either. They feel too small. The body of that one sure looks like beech to me.


----------



## bandit571

Try Murphy's Oil Soap to clean those type of planes…


----------



## Lazyman

Old wooden soled planes were often lubed with tallow which is one reason that some of them look so grimy when you find them.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Dave are you doing full restore on yours or leaving the patina?


I've experimented with different cleaning solutions, etc. I think this is the third transitional I've started cleaning up in the past month. But they all were pretty much basket cases, and most of what I paid was shipping.

On this particular one, there was white house paint splotched over everything and I didn't want that, so by the time I got rid of the paint, I was mostly patina-free. There's still some dings and cracks that have dirt and oil in the bottom of them, and I didn't sand off anything, but I scrubbed pretty good with 0000 steel wool and degreaser.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Its funny how many planes have house paint spots on them. They can be a bugger to get off too! I've been having good luck with steel wool and paste wax on the metal parts. I use oil soap on the wood and that works well. I like to leave some patina on the wood though. Keeps some of the soul from years of use.


----------



## RWE

> Its funny how many planes have house paint spots on them. They can be a bugger to get off too! I ve been having good luck with steel wool and paste wax on the metal parts. I use oil soap on the wood and that works well. I like to leave some patina on the wood though. Keeps some of the soul from years of use.
> 
> - Thedustydutchman


The old timers that used those planes had no creativity or sense of color. (Neither do I). Why is it always White paint????

Before I kick the bucket, I am going to get a paint brush and flick some red or green on a few of my planes just to break that tradition. You ever buys them at a yard sale will be mystified by the extraordinary color palate. LOL


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Its funny how many planes have house paint spots on them. They can be a bugger to get off too! I ve been having good luck with steel wool and paste wax on the metal parts. I use oil soap on the wood and that works well. I like to leave some patina on the wood though. Keeps some of the soul from years of use.
> 
> - Thedustydutchman


If I still have some chunks of paint splatter or drips left after using oil soap and steel wool, I'll generally get the rest to come off with my thumbnail used as a scraper or with some gentle scraping using nylon or plastic dental picks. The picks allow me to dig into the pores of the wood to remove the paint without damaging the wood itself.


----------



## corelz125

I've had a mint green on a plane think maybe red also. I always wonder why these planes always got paint splattered on them. Until I had a can of pink spray paint explode and now I have pink spots on a bunch of stuff and tools


----------



## Notw

I finally finished my hand plane till, now just need to find the courage to hang it on the wall 


Finished Product









Conceptual Rendering


----------



## RWE

Very cool. I like the contrasting wood and the pizazz with the corner posts.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Notw, do you have a hanging method picked out? I have seen some metal brackets for cabinets that work like a french cleat.


----------



## Notw

I've got a french cleat attached to the back, i'm just worried


----------



## Notw

> I ve got a french cleat attached to the back, i m just worried
> 
> - Notw


 The french cleat is screwed to the case with (6 or 7) 2" #8 screws, which i hope is enough, i need to do some lag bolt research to see what to mount to the wall


----------



## EricFai

That is a wonterful till, the French cleats hold well, I use them in my shop for cabinets. I have one at the top and one at the bottom on a cabinet which is 6' long and 3' high, not going anywhere.


----------



## Notw

So did anyone spot the "imposter" in my hand plane collection?


----------



## HokieKen

> So did anyone spot the "imposter" in my hand plane collection?
> 
> - Notw


If I had to guess I'd say it's the one on the bottom left ;-) Looks like that might be a *WR* logo on the lever cap?


----------



## Notw

> So did anyone spot the "imposter" in my hand plane collection?
> 
> - Notw
> 
> If I had to guess I d say it s the one on the bottom left ;-) Looks like that might be a *WR* logo on the lever cap?
> 
> - HokieKen


 Correct, didn't want to pony up the cash for a Stanley no. 1 so I bought a WR and then made a walnut knob and handle for it to match the rest.


----------



## Mosquito

Can't blame you there, the margins on that one are pretty significant lol 
I've been debating trying to swap my Stanley #10 for a Keen Kutter #10, but the price on the KK10 gets me not very far from a Lie-Nielsen 10-1/4 or Veritas Jack Rabbet, if either ever come back in stock


----------



## RWE

> Can t blame you there, the margins on that one are pretty significant lol
> I ve been debating trying to swap my Stanley #10 for a Keen Kutter #10, but the price on the KK10 gets me not very far from a Lie-Nielsen 10-1/4 or Veritas Jack Rabbet, if either ever come back in stock
> 
> - Mosquito


Mos:

Have you ever read "Keen Kutter Planes" by Alvin Sellers. I picked it up off of Amazon. Kind of light weight on the subject of the planes, but it gave a great history of E. C. Simmons Hardware. I found it to be an interesting read. I guess most plane geeks would enjoy it.

It was amazing to me how big and widespread Simmons Hardware came to be.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, I believe I've got two copies of it, actually


----------



## Mosquito

I know this isn't referencing just handplanes, but in part. I'm reading through Good Work, the book about John Brown and his chair making, and this quote made me chuckle a little. Enough to share it with my wife, which in the realm of woodworking texts is rare lol

Thought I'd share, it's an excerpt from a column he wrote for a magazine in 1999.



> *Working With Hand Tools*
> 
> If you don't have to make money from your woodwork, if you don't have to create blemish-free surfaces and invisible joints, if you want your work to have soul and character, you should avoid power tools. Hand tools will do a better job. If you want to feel good about your personal skills and bad about your bank balance, then you don't need to buy expensive machines.
> 
> -John Brown


----------



## Lazyman

He forgot to add: ... and use the money saved to buy dozens of vintage hand planes.


----------



## Mosquito

I think that's part of the "[feel] bad about your bank balance" comment  At least in my modern and applicable interpretation, anyway lol


----------



## bandit571

Use the money saved to buy the lumber needed…..?


----------



## Johnny7

> *Working With Hand Tools*
> 
> If you don't have to make money from your woodwork, if you don't have to create blemish-free surfaces and invisible joints, if you want your work to have soul and character, you should avoid power tools. Hand tools will do a better job. If you want to feel good about your personal skills and bad about your bank balance, then you don't need to buy expensive machines.
> 
> -John Brown
> 
> - Mosquito


Just one man's interpretation, but given that he's writing in 1999, I don't think he's referencing the cost of hand tools, but rather the lack of making money from the pursuit he references in the first sentence.


----------



## Mosquito

Yes, I'm pretty certain that's exactly what he meant. That's why I qualified my statement with the "applicable" interpretation, as in applicable to Nathan's anecdote relating it to this particular thread. I just found it to be a chuckle worthy phrasing of admission that while yes, machines are fantastic for the end product, his preference is clearly to feel good about his work with a true to craftsman's form, at the expense of higher margins.


----------



## Sylvain

> If you want to feel good about your personal skills and [bad] about your bank balance


Not sure this wasn't a typing mistake or the result of rephrasing and forgetting to remove a word.
It happens to me sometime.

The mantra of Paul Sellers is to demonstrate one can do almost everything with ten essential hand tools and three joints.
Although it doesn't mean that one has to limit oneself to 10 tools.

Personally, I am not a collector even if I have slightly more than 10 tools:

- workbench;
- clamps;
- square;
- sliding bevel;
- angle gauge;
- rules;
- marking knife;
- pencil;
- sharpening plates and strop;
- broom and dust pan;

- rip-cut saw;
- cross-cut saw;
- dovetail saw;
- tenon saw;
- coping saw;

- bench chisels (multiple width);
- chisel hammer;

- #4 plane;
- router plane;
- plough plane;
- spokeshave;
- #80 scraper;
- #78 rebate plane;
- wooden jointer plane;

- rasp & files;
- card scrapers;
- brace and bits;
- screw drivers;
- hammer.

(if I don't forget anything)

No duplicates.
What was most expensive? : workbench vise (new), sharpening plates (dmt), plough plane (veritas), router plane (veritas).


----------



## Mosquito

In the context of the magazine column, I'm pretty sure it's accurate as typed. I think it means what it says; make a living by only hand tools, and you're not likely to become rich in the process, but that's not why he did it&ast;

&ast;it being making chairs by only hand tools (plus a bandsaw) for a living.

I'm not a collector either. I'm an inquisitive preservationist.

Actually, I'm a collector and I don't care; it's just another hobby I enjoy.


----------



## DevinT

.


----------



## controlfreak

ODO
Order Dis Order


----------



## controlfreak

Double post


----------



## RWE

My progression in woodworking was this: Power tools, jigs for power tools, more jigs for power tools, sick of jigs after a while. I did a lot of bowl turning and pen turning for a while

Then I get a source for band sawn lumber and realized that I need hand planes to prep the lumber for power planers and jointers.

Looking for hand tools took me to Antique and Flea malls. I found that I liked looking for tools as much as doing the woodwork. I kept finding tools, learned more about other tools that I did not have and began spending more time refurbing tools than doing woodworking.

I do not apologize for any of this. It was a natural evolution. Old tools are fascinating. I kind of compare the fun of refurbing of the old tools to the fun I had as a child building model cars and planes.

So at this point, I have a fine collection of planes, handsaws, chisels, draw knives. I plan to "monetize" some of the handsaws. I have come to like the panel saws and don't use the full sized saws with any frequency.

Lately, I have added a nice assortment of molding planes. They are screaming at me to build something completely with wooden bench planes, saws and molding planes. So I am trying to put the brakes on acquisition of more tools, but this would be the second or third "philosophical" attempt to get my mind right and go back to nothing but woodworking. Like an alcoholic, I will probably get another drink/tool soon. That whole Sargent Auto Set thing is working me over.

I think unless you are Christian Becksvordt (sp) or someone of his ilk, with a noted style and commissions for builds from repeat clients, you would have a hard time making a living doing hand tool woodwork.

I have sharpened enough saws to know that you could never make money on that.

The problem in this era is that time has sped up so much that no one can be comfortable in taking on a lengthy project and the commitment it brings. Only old retired guys and trust fund millennials have the time for serious projects.


----------



## bandit571

About the only thing this one is good for…









At least for today….


----------



## donwilwol

i'm pretty sure I learn woodworking sometime in the 1600's. Metal work sometime around the 14th century. I think i probably worked across the street from a blacksmith shop in the 1500's. Watching it intrigued me but I never really learned it.


----------



## DevinT

.


----------



## Mosquito

Anyone with a #55 or #46 interested in any of these? They're clean, but not sharppened, as I didn't need them


----------



## 33706

> In the context of the magazine column, I m pretty sure it s accurate as typed. I think it means what it says; make a living by only hand tools, and you re not likely to become rich in the process, but that s not why he did it*
> 
> *it being making chairs by only hand tools (plus a bandsaw) for a living.
> 
> I m not a collector either. I m an inquisitive preservationist.
> 
> Actually, I m a collector and I don t care; it s just another hobby I enjoy.
> 
> - Mosquito


Agreed, Mos!
I have never been able to weed out my hand tool excesses. My stepfather, who built commercial fixtures and millwork for 45 years, settled into his basement workshop in retirement and produced some incredible furniture. His tools, in its entirety, all sat on a 8 inch wide shelf three feet long.

My tools reside in drawers and cabinets that occupy 252 *cubic* feet of workroom space. That doesn't even include my powered equipment!! Will I ever need a tool that reams/recuts faucet seats? A die for 1 1/2" NPT threads? Six brass blowtorches? A balancer for lawnmower blades? Ridge reamer for 3" to 4" cylinder bores?

I just want to simplify, and it's sooo difficult.


----------



## Mosquito

I tend to go in waves where I'll get in the mood to deal with unloading a bunch of stuff at once, or consecutively, and roll it over in to other things that strike my fancy. I need to do that with a couple machines soon. About to have a 3rd table saw show up, so I'll have to finally get my current one restored and sell the parts saw to get back down to 2. And decide on whether I keep the dedicated non-wood bandsaw


----------



## Sylvain

> Actually, I m a collector and I don t care;
> - Mosquito


I have nothing against collecting tools and of course nothing against preserving them.

My point is: the extra tools should not be taken into account in the cost of making wood work.


----------



## Lazyman

I am interested in the 2 46 irons, Mos.


----------



## donald_wa

Mos, how much for the "55" irons? Thanks-Don


----------



## Mosquito

Messages sent on both. #46 irons are claimed


----------



## adot45

Three flea market finds from yesterday. 









The small one is a Stanley #3, type 12 with a sweetheart blade. I bought the middle sized one because I was hoping it was a Sargent. After a little investigation when I got them home I found "409 and 414" on the back of the lever cap and when I spruced up the blade I found "SARGENT OVER No VBM 414c" so It's a Sargent and maybe type 4 ? not too sure about that and just happy about it being a Sargent. There were no names or numbers on the base or front of the lever cap. 









The third one is the one that's a mystery to me. 









Twisted lateral, 18" long, #6 size in Stanley's.

Here is the base. 









The blade turned out to be a Stanley so no clue there other than the fact that it was 2 5/16" wide.
Any ideas what this might be? Any other pictures needed?


----------



## bandit571

#6 is an Ohio Tool Co.?


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photos, from yesterday…









Millers Falls No. 8









It was a bit busy yesterday..









How busy was it?









Yeah…


----------



## adot45

> #6 is an Ohio Tool Co.?
> 
> - bandit571


What I meant was the third plane is the same size as a Stanley No. 6


----------



## RWE

> The third one is the one that s a mystery to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Twisted lateral, 18" long, #6 size in Stanley s.
> 
> Here is the base.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade turned out to be a Stanley so no clue there other than the fact that it was 2 5/16" wide.
> Any ideas what this might be? Any other pictures needed?
> 
> - adot45


I thought it might have been a Union. With a twisted lateral, you have either an Ohio or Union. However, in looking at the shape of the frog bed in the body, I don't think it is a Union. The Unions have a curved v shape.

Post back when you have typed it.


----------



## DavePolaschek

That's a nice mystery, Dave. I've got a Union that has a Stanley lateral in it. Maybe our planes did a swap a couple decades ago? ;-)


----------



## adot45

That sounds confusing!

I agree Dave, the flea markets have been very good to me this year. Hope it keeps up till the snow flies, I'll have plenty to keep me busy this Winter.


----------



## RWE

> That's a nice mystery, Dave. I've got a Union that has a Stanley lateral in it. Maybe our planes did a swap a couple decades ago? ;-)
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


As I understand it, the plane companies would use all of their parts and there would often be "irregular" planes during the transitions that would not conform to a "type study". I know Kenny has run into that with Millers Falls planes.

The Union I have is a late model Union just before the Stanley acquisition. I would guess your Union may be a bit later and during the run out of parts for Union so they threw a Stanley lateral on it.

Just a guess.


----------



## bandit571

Long time ago..I tried a Union/DE frog onto a replacement Stanley base….bolt spacing was just a hair wider on the Stanley base, compared to the Union frog….just a heads up.

Next time I'm in the shop…I could pull out the Ohio Tool Co. No. 0-7 I have….the iron had a Globe logo, though…and the frog seat was a series of small squares….oh, and the iron had a hex shaped hole instead of Stanley's round shaped hole…


----------



## corelz125

It might be a Union a lot of the Ohios had the 06. Or the maroon jappaning


----------



## donwilwol

I think Union as well.

Sargent looks like a t-4 too. Nice finds


----------



## adot45

Thanks for mentioning that Don, I used your book and the blade logo to come up with my guess, I look at the frogs and frog bases and sometimes they start to all look alike.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> As I understand it, the plane companies would use all of their parts and there would often be "irregular" planes during the transitions that would not conform to a "type study". I know Kenny has run into that with Millers Falls planes.
> 
> - RWE


I suspect the original on my Union plane got bent or damaged somehow. Looking at the pin it pivots on, its been peened over a couple different times, from what I could see. I'm guessing a user replacement at some point, but not very recently, given the rust that was holding everything together.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hello all. Did I miss anything?


----------



## HokieKen

Just my witty and brilliant insights


----------



## corelz125

Here's one of the strange Ohio tool #300 series that I recently acquired. Nothing is really different than their regular planes they just added numbers.


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## corelz125

Glad to see you back Smitty


----------



## adot45

Thanks to all who responded with information. This has been a great learning experience and a very interesting history lesson. I see a couple of Union planes on ebay right now and both have Stanley blades. My base doesn't have any numbers or markings but probably is a Union base, frog and lever cap as most here have suggested. 
Thanks again to all!


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## bandit571

Stanley like Union well enough, that Stanley bought out Union around 1920….used up all their parts, then closed the place down…


----------



## Mosquito

Yup, I've got a Union No. 44 combination plane that looks an awful lot like the Siegley No. 2 combination planes, from a time where Stanley owned both brands, to no coincidence


----------



## bandit571

Difference between a rebate plane..









And one that ploughs a groove in the middle of a board?









Not a whole lot…..finally needed the Cam Rest, is all..


----------



## Sylvain

Before buying a #78, I have used my plough plane to make rebates.


----------



## HokieKen

Another hard to find MF item finally checked off my wishlist:









I'll be selling two of them if anyone is interested


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice! If I hadn't already bought a Veritas reproduction, I probably would have taken one


----------



## RWE

This has to be the most unusual Coffin plane I have seen. User modification and I am not sure how long ago the mod was made, but I expect it was a few decades back.



















Also saw two other very unusual (at least to me) items.

Love this Keen Kutter hacksaw but not the price. ($44, which might be reasonable for what I would guess is a very rare item).










And for your viewing please, the common Adze Hammer (yours for $78)


----------



## bandit571

In use today….









Had some work for it to do..









Not just one face, mind you..









Both faces….made a bit of a mess today…


----------



## donwilwol

> Love this Keen Kutter hacksaw but not the price. ($44, which might be reasonable for what I would guess is a very rare item).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE


I would have guessed a meat saw. Maybe? Cool looking though.


----------



## RWE

> Love this Keen Kutter hacksaw but not the price. ($44, which might be reasonable for what I would guess is a very rare item).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Don W


I found about 3 or 4 on Ebay, so I guess it was not as rare. They were listed as hacksaws as well. It did have a conventional hack saw blade in it.

Also, the Adze hammer was readily available on Ebay. I guess I don't get out that often to know about those things. LOL

- RWE

I would have guessed a meat saw. Maybe? Cool looking though.


----------



## Notw

Finally got the hand plane till up on the wall. And no all the holes in the wall are not from me, apparently whoever owned the house before me did not own a stud finder or magnet or knuckle to tap on the wall and instead used the guess and check method for finding studs. unfortunately the majority of my shop looks like it was attacked by woodpeckers


----------



## BlasterStumps

Looks very nice Notw. Pleasing to the eye.


----------



## controlfreak

That looks very sexy!


----------



## RWE

Looks great. Clean and very cool to look at.


----------



## Lazyman

Is that your living room? ;-)


----------



## Notw

> Is that your living room? ;-)
> 
> - Lazyman


Although it fits my decorating style I'm 100% sure the wife would not approve.


----------



## Mosquito

> Love this Keen Kutter hacksaw but not the price. ($44, which might be reasonable for what I would guess is a very rare item).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE
> 
> 
> 
> I would have guessed a meat saw. Maybe? Cool looking though.
> 
> - Don W
Click to expand...

It was originally sold as a dehorning saw, for cattle. I imagine it would work fine as a hacksaw too, though, given it's the same in practice lol


----------



## Mosquito

Plane till looks awesome up on the wall Notw!


----------



## bandit571

Busy day, this afternoon…









As for this morning?









Paid a dollar, in quarters, for this bundle…


----------



## EricFai

> Finally got the hand plane till up on the wall. And no all the holes in the wall are not from me, apparently whoever owned the house before me did not own a stud finder or magnet or knuckle to tap on the wall and instead used the guess and check method for finding studs. unfortunately the majority of my shop looks like it was attacked by woodpeckers
> - Notw


That is a fine piece of furniture and loaded nicely. Wonderful craftsmanship. No worries about the holes next to it, they say toothpaste works.

I use my knuckles first, then I'll check with a tiny drill just in case. Never had much luck with the stud finder, usually found the edge though.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I picked up an older Zircon stud finder the other day that works much better than my old craftsman model I have had for years. Who knew there could be so much difference in their operation, sensitivity, etc.

I also found a shavehook scraper set. (handle with three different contour scraper blades) Weird though because it appears to need all edges sharpened. Maybe that is why it doesn't seem to ever have been used. It was like a couple dollars so I thought I would see if it can be useful or not. Possibly for glue scraping.


----------



## Sylvain

Nice piece of furniture.



> Is that your living room? ;-)
> - Lazyman
> Although it fits my decorating style I m 100% sure the wife would not approve.
> - Notw


This guy has the "family workbench" in his dining room:
https://literaryworkshop.wordpress.com/2018/05/31/working-wood-with-my-children-mostly-pictures/


----------



## 33706

> It was originally sold as a dehorning saw, for cattle. I imagine it would work fine as a hacksaw too, though, given it s the same in practice lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito


Great work, Mos!


----------



## KentInOttawa

> This has to be the most unusual Coffin plane I have seen. User modification and I am not sure how long ago the mod was made, but I expect it was a few decades back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE


Are you talking about the inset on the base ahead of the mouth or the extended base? I've seen both before, although not too often and I don't remember seeing both on the same plane. I managed to buy a coffin plane from eBay recently that has a similar inset. This one is fit quite nicely but does need to be re-glued.










Just after I bought my coffin plane, I tripped across this video about repairing this type of insets. Life is weird like that.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Hey Kent, just wanted to show you what I ended up doing for storage of the planes I want to keep close to the work bench. I didn't have an area where I could put a cabinet like yours and the new workbench does not have a tool well so I put them on little supports between the windows. It works! 
Thanks again for posting the picture of your work space which gave me the inspiration to get this little chore done.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I did the same thing to an old coffin plane. Trouble is, I didn't get it to close up the mouth enough. Maybe adding a thin sole like the one in Kent's picture would be what it needs to get the mouth a little smaller. Might have to give that a try. I super glued the cracks at the corners of the mouth so even though they look bad, they are pretty solid now.


----------



## DavePolaschek

So how are folks coming on the Secret Santa? I've got a plane almost ready to go - it just needs one last part, which is on the way. Unless I'm confused.

Plan A ended up breaking through the limit on cost once I got all the parts ordered, which is probably fine, since I ended up liking it too much to send it away to someone else once I got it tuned up and working happily anyhow.

How's everyone else doing?


----------



## bandit571

Still trying to figure out WHAT to send…


----------



## RWE

> This has to be the most unusual Coffin plane I have seen. User modification and I am not sure how long ago the mod was made, but I expect it was a few decades back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE
> Are you talking about the inset on the base ahead of the mouth or the extended base? I ve seen both before, although not too often and I don t remember seeing both on the same plane. I managed to buy a coffin plane from eBay recently that has a similar inset. This one is fit quite nicely but does need to be re-glued.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just after I bought my coffin plane, I tripped across this video about repairing this type of insets. Life is weird like that.
> 
> - Kent


The extension in front. I guess if you have seen some like that, it was a "thing" back in the day. I have seen others with the insert before.


----------



## RWE

> So how are folks coming on the Secret Santa? I've got a plane almost ready to go - it just needs one last part, which is on the way. Unless I'm confused.
> 
> Plan A ended up breaking through the limit on cost once I got all the parts ordered, which is probably fine, since I ended up liking it too much to send it away to someone else once I got it tuned up and working happily anyhow.
> 
> How's everyone else doing?
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


I just figured out what I am sending. I had several candidates. Now I need to do some clean up and refurb.


----------



## corelz125

I know what I'm sending just haven't started working on it yet


----------



## TedT2

Still in the process of trying to find something….


----------



## HokieKen

I have a line on something that I think will be good for my recipient. I've laid claim to it and am just having the seller see if he runs across anything else I might want to go with it


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Mine is done! This actually got me motivated to get in the shop for the first time in a while.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Cool. Sounds like at least half of the crowd is in good shape, plus we've still got a couple months to go.


----------



## theoldfart

Just happen to stumble across something while on vacation. Need to spiff it up a bit.


----------



## terryR

I hope The Handplane of Someone's Dreams is hiding within this stack of raw materials:










I hated to miss the Secret Santa, but life is complex at the moment; always next year! 

Next miter plane should be done this week…


----------



## bandit571

So….what happens to the Handplane Santa Swap? Will it switch over to the new site…?


----------



## Lazyman

Assuming everything goes as planned, this thread should get converted over to the new software and continue just as it was. If not for some reason, Bertha can just start V3.0 (or 2.1?). I suppose if you do not follow onto the new site then ???


----------



## DavePolaschek

> So….what happens to the Handplane Santa Swap? Will it switch over to the new site…?


Names have been sent out, and I'm expecting everyone will still send something to their recipient. Reveals will happen in hopefully the converted version of this thread on the new site.

I'll be very surprised if links to an individual post like the one for the rules migrate over to the new site, but I made a copy of the text so I can repost it if needed.


----------



## HokieKen

Just got back in town and found 3 new friends waiting for me


----------



## BlasterStumps

Very nice Kenny, a couple look unused even. very nice.
I just added a stop to my new workbench. I don't even remember where I got them some 30 years back. Don't remember where I found the quick release screw either. Might have been Habitat Restore.


----------



## Notw

Ohhh new forum platform all shiny and chrome


----------



## Mosquito

Oooh new shiny. Initial impressions are lackluster...

Speaking of shiny, Stanley 100-1/2 got the business last night

















And the pudding proof








Stanley 100-1/2 Results







youtube.com


----------



## DavePolaschek

Well, that’s kinda spiffy. The link for the Secret Santa rules still works, mostly.


----------



## Notw

oh there is a like button now.


----------



## Mosquito

yes indeed, Cricket said there would be, no idea if that's a good thing or not


----------



## donwilwol

This will take some getting used to


----------



## Mosquito

That's for sure lol I'm having a hell of a time uploading pictures form mobile, but it's insanely easy from desktop now that I can just copy-paste them in. On mobile it just seems to hang when "Loading image" after uploading the first one. It took me saving the draft, refreshing, and uploading a new image to get both those images in my first post-upgrade post here


----------



## corelz125

Seems to be different from each device. Coming on from my tablet isn't bad. I don't like it on my phone.


----------



## donwilwol

Works ok here


----------



## KentInOttawa

Mosquito said:


> That's for sure lol I'm having a hell of a time uploading pictures from mobile, but it's insanely easy from desktop now that I can just copy-paste them in. On mobile it just seems to hang when "Loading image" after uploading the first one. It took me saving the draft, refreshing, and uploading a new image to get both those images in my first post-upgrade post here











Well, damn. Silly me went and used the Insert Image button on the editor's toolbar the first time I tried and it worked about the same as the old system (dialogue box, select file...). Ctl-V is so much easier...

I built this thin strip thicknessing jig a while back and it is now causing me difficulties. When I press down at the near end to start, the far end often lifts and allows the workpiece to be pushed out of the jig. Does anybody have some suggestions or photos of their own jigs that I can see? For reference, I've screwed the sides of this one to a fixed spot because the adjusting screw holes were wearing too much. Now I use a 1/2" shim (approximately) to raise the workpiece to height.


----------



## DevinT

Nice work @KentInOttawa


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

donwilwol said:


> This will take some getting used to


Yes it will...


----------



## HokieKen

I like that thin strip jig Kent. I'll have to keep that in mind for future  Have you thought about using carpet tape to secure the wood to prevent it lifting or sliding?


----------



## Mosquito

KentInOttawa said:


> I built this thin strip thicknessing jig a while back and it is now causing me difficulties. When I press down at the near end to start, the far end often lifts and allows the workpiece to be pushed out of the jig. Does anybody have some suggestions or photos of their own jigs that I can see? For reference, I've screwed the sides of this one to a fixed spot because the adjusting screw holes were wearing too much. Now I use a 1/2" shim (approximately) to raise the workpiece to height.


I've had a similar one for a long time that was always single-height, but I would say check to make sure your shim is long enough to support the whole work piece you're planing.

Otherwise are the pieces you're planing already cut to their finished length? A couple screws or nails through the end stop to grip in to the end grain a little might do the trick too. I've not used mine in a while, so I don't recall having that issue with it, but have with my V-block planing jig for similar issues (I use that for tapering round/octagonal stock)


----------



## DevinT

A note to @Sylvain -- spot on. Mouth was too open for final smoothing. Thanks for the top-notch tip that actually worked. For those that missed it, there was a kerfuffle over trying to determine why a super tuned plane would jump out of the cut on a board that was already finish-smoothed with an even more super tuned plane. Answer was: if your mouth is too far open.


----------



## controlfreak

Glad you found the answer Devin


----------



## KentInOttawa

I have this jig at a fixed height. I was using full-length 1/8" plywood shims without any issues but they warped with the humidity when I recently stopped using the A/C. Since then, I've had nothing but problems. I wound up making a new 1/2" shim to replace the warped 1/8" shims and made sure that it was flat and true.

Despite that, the 1/4"-thick workpiece still rocks the far end up and it ejects itself. The workpiece is still a little longer than needed, but it is still a few inched shorter than either the jig or the 1/2" shim/auxiliary bed that is in it now. I've rejected the double-sided tape because the jig should work without it. I've been mulling over some sort of toothed stop or wood screws and that will probably be my next step.


----------



## Lazyman

Kent, are the pieces rocking in the jig because they are warped?


----------



## bandit571

Went shopping, today...out of the $20.38 spent...most was on a plane...$15...may have over spent?








Not sure IF that is a Model number?








Wood base has a Razee profile...
The metal plate on the handle..








Design feature, previous owner's fix? There is also a metal wear plate in the mouth opening

Toe is imprinted with "GAGE TOOL CO. Vineland, NJ"

Interesting?


----------



## corelz125

bandit571 said:


> Went shopping, today...out of the $20.38 spent...most was on a plane...$15...may have over spent?
> View attachment 3853199
> 
> Not sure IF that is a Model number?
> View attachment 3853200
> 
> Wood base has a Razee profile...
> The metal plate on the handle..
> View attachment 3853201
> 
> Design feature, previous owner's fix? There is also a metal wear plate in the mouth opening
> 
> Toe is imprinted with "GAGE TOOL CO. Vineland, NJ"
> 
> Interesting?


Thats an original Gage plane before Stanley got their paws on them


----------



## DavePolaschek

Yep. Corelz beat me to it, but it’s a Gage, Bandit. I’ve been studying up on them. If you have questions, I’ll try to answer. The “auto-set” feature isn’t really all that, but they’re nice enough users for only sorta having a lateral adjustment (move the piece that attaches to the blade left and right in the slot to adjust laterally).


----------



## TedT2

Yippee! They finally let me sign back in after a day of being rejected. Lol


----------



## KentInOttawa

Lazyman said:


> Kent, are the pieces rocking in the jig because they are warped?


I didn't think so. They passed my go/no-go check with the cheapy calipers.










I was using a "factory second" strip of wood to dial-in the jig when it started giving me the issues. There's no sense in risking damage to a production piece if you don't need to, right?

After swapping in a production piece and taking a lot of care, the jig started working better. Dialling-in the plane's settings helped more. It started to work more like it was supposed to. 




















After switching to a set of calipers that my poor eyes can read, I was able to adjust the height of the auxilliary bed with a shim at one end (worn-out Skip-Bo cards) and get the finished pieces to within 0.010". That's close enough for me.

Now to move on and prepare the stock for some tool trays and some small boxes. This wood is all reclaimed and resawn from pallet stringers, so there were a lot of nail holes to work around but still plenty of clear lumber in small chunks like this. Some of the strips still have nail holes in them. Thes will be used first to make some tool trays. That will give me some practice before I move on to making the boxes with the clear pieces.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Kent, glad you got it figured out


----------



## Mosquito

So after I think 4 different sales, they finally got me... And then, I was one of the random picks for refunds as part of the anniversary sale/celebration/whatever they called it, and it only ended up costing me shipping and tax in the end


----------



## DevinT

@Mosquito (spits out coffee) say what?

that sounds like one helluva deal! What do you have planned for it?


----------



## Notw

Mosquito said:


> So after I think 4 different sales, they finally got me... And then, I was one of the random picks for refunds as part of the anniversary sale/celebration/whatever they called it, and it only ended up costing me shipping and tax in the end


And the rich get richer  J/K congrats on getting it for almost free


----------



## Mosquito

DevinT said:


> @Mosquito (spits out coffee) say what?
> 
> that sounds like one helluva deal! What do you have planned for it?


Re-reading it, I guess it was actually 23 orders (for 23rd anniversary), but still, I'll take it lol 

To date, despite all the combination planes and bench planes I've had, I've almost exclusively used Stanley mini block planes (#101 and recently #100-1/2), so my intention is to make this my "next step up" block plane, as I've mostly been using my #2 single handed for the sorts of tasks one would normally use a block plane for. 

I had been thinking about getting a LN #102 block plane, but this was half the price with the sale and now 1/8 the price after the refund lol


----------



## Mosquito

Notw said:


> And the rich get richer  J/K congrats on getting it for almost free


only regret is I didn't buy something else to make the shipping free


----------



## DavePolaschek

I own that low-angle block, Mos. There are a few jobs where it’s indispensable, but mostly it’s just another BCT too fancy (for me) tool. At some point I’ll replace the allen-head screws with thumbscrews so I don’t have to go find the tiny allen wrench in order to change the height of the skates.


----------



## bandit571

Ok...have taken the Gage Tool Co. plane apart..cleaned every bit of rust off...Trying to decide what to do with the rear handle...replace it, repair the missing horn...keep that metal plate? Or let the fellow I'll be shipping this to in December, figure that out...Iron and chipbreaker have been tuned up. The 2 bolts that fasten the "Frog" to the wood body? I have had way easier bolts to install. They screw into threaded inserts...and it is a bit rough to even get them to start...

Wood sole has a couple small cracks...nothing major...sole is a bit worn from a LOT of use.

Is that "1048" the model number? Waiting on a board, before giving the plane a test drive...

Metal plate under the tote.....I need to pull that off, and clean it, and whatever screws there are, up....tote could stand a refresh on the finish, too. 

Stamped into the "stern" is....J.C.Grove...and a "4" under that..
Stay tuned..


----------



## Mosquito

DavePolaschek said:


> I own that low-angle block, Mos. There are a few jobs where it’s indispensable, but mostly it’s just another BCT too fancy (for me) tool. At some point I’ll replace the allen-head screws with thumbscrews so I don’t have to go find the tiny allen wrench in order to change the height of the skates.


Yeah, that's almost my impression of it too. Getting the iron out is clumsy, and I'm probably going to make a place to store the side whatever they're calling them, so I don't have to live with them on it all the time (so I can hunt for the allen key, and allen screws every time I want to use it lol)


----------



## DavePolaschek

bandit571 said:


> Is that "1048" the model number? Waiting on a board, before giving the plane a test drive...


Nope. The model numbers were stamped on the toe, I think. Mostly they’re just the length, but once Stanley bought them, I think they got numbers that matched up with the Stanley system, and then when they went all metal, they got Stanley numbers, but followed by a G.

The metal plate on the tote is part of the “signature” of a Gage. I would keep it, even if I replaced the tote wood. When I replace that wood, I’ll also clean up the bits that attach the tote to the wood.

I’m not sure which size you have, but I have a batch of 2-¼" blades and the plate that attaches to the cap (chip-breaker-ish) that should be ready before thanksgiving. Not sure what the price will be yet, but probably too high for the $50 spending limit, even if I just charge materials cost for the O1 steel.


----------



## DavePolaschek

DavePolaschek said:


> Mostly they’re just the length,


Here’s a page from DonW’s site with a listing of the gage lengths and iron widths.


----------



## terryR

Pretty cool, Mos!
Especially love the price


----------



## HokieKen

Nice Mos! That plane always struck me as an answer looking for a question. But after seeing Kent’s jig, I can see the usefulness.


----------



## Mosquito

I know there's been "debates" in the past about whether anodized aluminum would hold up for a plane, so there was a morbid curiosity to find out for myself. I don't see any indication I should have to flatten it, but that would be a concern. I look forward to getting to put it to use, and will probably do a video like I did the Walke-Moore router


----------



## HokieKen

Oh, is the sole Aluminum? I have to retract my previous statement. Paying tax and shipping is a price far too steep. These companies making “premium” tools out of aluminum really chap my ass.


----------



## Mosquito

yeah, billet aluminum, and some stainless parts. That was the main sticking point for me, but thought I've spent more money on dumber things (two of which might have been bought tonight lol), so thought I'd see for myself


----------



## bandit571

Measures out as 9" long, with a 2" wide iron...


----------



## HokieKen

Mosquito said:


> … I've spent more money on dumber things (two of which might have been bought tonight lol), so thought I'd see for myself


Do tell???


----------



## Mosquito

HokieKen said:


> Do tell???


Just another combo plane and some more Fales patent stuff I probably didn't need lol


----------



## DavePolaschek

bandit571 said:


> Measures out as 9" long, with a 2" wide iron...


So it’s really a #4, and possibly after the acquisition by Stanley. I’m not clear on when Gage switched the numbering of the smaller planes from “inches long” to Stanley-style numbers. That doesn’t seem to be well-documented on the web, either.

I haven’t yet figured out if it’s possible to remove the threaded inserts from the body without inflicting damage on the wood, but I suspect not. I’ve got one Gage that’s got a severely cracked body that’s probably going to get sacrificed so I can test that, and possibly install them in a new body, but yes, the screws that hold the frog into the body can be hard to install if those inserts have rusted. I squirted a bunch of WD-40 down those holes to free things up, and that helped some, but I’d still like to de-gunk and de-rust the inserts, so I’ll probably be doing that once I clear current projects off my bench. So maybe before the first of the year…


----------



## HokieKen

Mosquito said:


> Just another combo plane and some more Fales patent stuff I probably didn't need lol


Good. You won't be trying to sell me anything


----------



## Mosquito

HokieKen said:


> Good. You won't be trying to sell me anything


Not yet, anyway lol One of those combination planes is actually an upgrade to one I already have, so I'll have one to sell, and I'm at the point where I've got enough Fales parts, that chances are good that if I buy a group of unknown parts I'll end up with mostly duplicates... I might have to gift you a Fales plane body, just so I have somewhere gullable friendly to dump my extras


----------



## HokieKen

Unless you find a Fales body made by Millers Falls, I think I can deny myself.


----------



## Mosquito

unrelated... anyone know of someone making cheap replica Millers Falls stickers?


----------



## Lazyman

Just the ones I have seen on ebay. Are they for the tool or for a box? If for a box, you might print your own and try the onion skin paper method.


----------



## HokieKen

Pretty sure they’re for a combination plane…


----------



## Mosquito

Lazyman said:


> Just the ones I have seen on ebay. Are they for the tool or for a box? If for a box, you might print your own and try the onion skin paper method.





HokieKen said:


> Pretty sure they’re for a combination plane…


haha maybe a rare "Manufactured by Otis A Smith" millers falls combination plane


----------



## Hammerthumb

Anyone here have a pre-WW2 4 and 5 Stanley they want to part with? Don’t care if they have been tuned or not. I have a buddy of mine looking.


----------



## DevinT

New product came in the mail. Got tired of using up all my expensive furniture wax for planing. This is far more economical.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Paraffin in a tube? Just like my lip balm?  

With global warming pushing everyone into triple digits in summer, let me pass along a tip: 
Store paraffin in sealed bag or container if you shop does not have temp control !!

Paraffin is PITA in my Arizona shop. When temp goes over ~100°, all my Gulf Wax slabs soften and join into one giant blob. If box end opens, find paraffin oozing out into drawer. 
Slabs I keep for waxing TS tilt/lift gears, ends up melted in the shape of it's tupperware container every summer, and was a giant mess in bottom of drawer before I learned my lesson.

Have zero issues with melting beeswax, even with shop temperatures to 115°; thanks to higher softening temp. 
It lubes hand planes just as well, and excess removes with naphtha just like paraffin. Have a local beekeeper who services the citrus orchards in my area, that sells block of filtered beeswax cheap in his road side honey stand.  

If you need cheap "furniture" wax for your tools, look for Staples Crystal Clear (Bowling Alley) Paste Wax (available at Woodcraft)
IME - it's same as LV plane wax, except a one pound can is nearly same price as 4 ounce tin from LV.

YMMV


----------



## DevinT

Global warming saw us hit high 80’s this summer and we may not be done yet.

Exactly what I was thinking … Chapstick for hand planes, LoL.

Thanks for the tip on storing in a bag. My shop rarely ever sees temps above 75


----------



## BlasterStumps

That's some good info Captain.


----------



## DevinT

I usually use Daddy Van’s beeswax but it is expensive-ish and I am getting low so wanted to conserve the rest for actual finishes.


----------



## DevinT

I am actually into bowling — never occurred to me to combine elements from bowling into woodwork. This is the stuff I come here for!


----------



## Mosquito

Hammerthumb said:


> Anyone here have a pre-WW2 4 and 5 Stanley they want to part with? Don’t care if they have been tuned or not. I have a buddy of mine looking.


I have a 5 and 3, but no 4, both Type 11s. Also a T11 5-1/2


----------



## Lazyman

Just need to make a little grease pot to keep your plane lube in. 









The Woodwright's Shop | Dovetailed Grease Pot | Season 37 | Episode 8 | PBS


Walnut and boxwood make a little box with a secret lock to stash the woodworker’s pal.




www.pbs.org


----------



## HokieKen

I knew Mos would have something Paul. He loves taking money from LJs 😜 In all seriousness though I don’t regret any of my dealings with him.

You might also check with Don W for the #4 if he doesn’t see your post. I know he’s moving and was trying to get rid of a lot of inventory before he does.

If your buddy isn’t set on Stanley, I have a Millers Falls #9 (equivalent of Stanley #4) that’s been mostly restored I could part with.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Mosquito said:


> I have a 5 and 3, but no 4, both Type 11s. Also a T11 5-1/2


I’ll send a pm.


----------



## Hammerthumb

HokieKen said:


> I knew Mos would have something Paul. He loves taking money from LJs 😜 In all seriousness though I don’t regret any of my dealings with him.
> 
> You might also check with Don W for the #4 if he doesn’t see your post. I know he’s moving and was trying to get rid of a lot of inventory before he does.
> 
> If your buddy isn’t set on Stanley, I have a Millers Falls #9 (equivalent of Stanley #4) that’s been mostly restored I could part with.


I’ll let you know. Thanks.


----------



## HokieKen

This may be my longest plane rehab yet…. Finally turned aome knobs for this #67.








Now all that’s left is to polish up the steel bits, finish sanding the knobs and put some finish on them and put it all back together.


----------



## BlasterStumps

That router is going to look real nice Kenny. Nice work on the knobs.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Do you kick your frog around? I was just looking at a very nice hand plane that has a properly sharpened cutter and yet the lateral adjuster lever was set off to the side in order to get the blade to cut evenly when set to depth. When I have that situation on a plane, I leave the frog screws semi-tight and then kick the frog to one side or the other so that my cutter that I have spent considerable time making sure it is sharpened to a good 90º sets in the plane correctly allowing the cutter to be cutting square to the sole of the plane. Usually then the lateral adjuster only has to move a very small amount. Hope that makes sense. Is it important that the lever is not off to one side? Well probably not but it makes me feel better about my sharpening efforts to see the plane cutting properly and the lever nearly in the middle. Looking at a few planes I worked on a few years ago, I will have to admit I still have a bunch of frogs to kick.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, I sure do Mike. I don’t mind a lateral lever being a couple degrees off center but more than that bugs me. So I’ll set the frog slightly askew if it lets me center the lever and keep the cutting edge square. In most cases though I find that making sure the frog seats properly in the base leaves things pretty true but that’s a lot more trouble.


----------



## bandit571

Sometimes..it is more of a matter about WHAT the frog is sitting on.....as in one of the 2 pads is a slight bit taller than the other.....DAMHIKT....maybe too much paint on one? The file going across was not level....also, check the base of the frog...maybe it was ground a bit....off...


----------



## Lazyman

HokieKen said:


> This may be my longest plane rehab yet…. Finally turned aome knobs for this #67.
> View attachment 3853588
> 
> Now all that’s left is to polish up the steel bits, finish sanding the knobs and put some finish on them and put it all back together.


Careful Kenny. Coc (obolo) can be very addictive.


----------



## Mosquito

Same on the frog adjustment if it's way off. 

And agreed, good looking router Kenny


----------



## corelz125

Kenny which finish are you gonna go with on those knobs?


----------



## HokieKen

Shellac to seal them then a few coats of wipe on poly Corelz.


----------



## Notw

Speaking of router planes, did anyone see this new one from Katz Moses?








KM-17 Router Plane


THE COOLEST TOOL WE'VE EVER RELEASED. CURRENT/NEW ORDERS SHIP BETWEEN 12/15/22-12/31/22 The KM-17 Router Plane is the ultimate hand tool for fine tuning joinery, cutting grooves, creating perfect mortises, and more. It's a collaboration between Katz-Moses Tools and Hongdui Tools — who I consider...




kmtools.com


----------



## DevinT

Why, yes! I saw and I am dead-sold. As soon as I can find $189 “spare” dollar-bucks, that sweet piece of kit is going to be mine!

I have been wanting a router plane for a long time but was pretty much set on LN but then this comes out. De-throned the LN in a second.

I think I still want the LV draw knives over his draw knives though (and I’ll make my own leather sheeth; that or get a vintage antique folding draw knife; the wooden cover he talks about in the same video for his draw knife does not appeal to me).

The thing that sells it for me are the fences, chromium content (read: rust resistance) and slop free depth adjuster — though the last two I think need personal evaluation.


----------



## Mosquito

I think Jim Bode ended up with a couple draw knives by the same person... appear to be the same style, and same wood sheath with leather snap strap. 

I was intrigued by the KM router plane, was tempted to buy one just to do a video review of it, and see if it lives up to the hype he's putting out around it. I understand why, but dislike that it uses proprietary plane irons, so you can't use the Lee Valley irons (yes, I do use my 1/4" and 1/8" irons a lot). I also don't need another router plane, with my Walke-Moore pulling main duty...

If you do end up getting one Devin, I'd be curious to hear your opinion of it. I liked the fence as well, and the rest of what he touted very much fell in the "won't believe it til I see it" category as well.


----------



## HokieKen

I do like the idea of the depth adjuster with scale. Like Mos, I don't like the blade style since they aren't interchangeable with vintage or Veritas blades. The fence looks like a good implementation. The depth adjuster would make inlay work more convenient. But, I much prefer an open-throat for inlays so I can see more of where I'm going. I'm also not sure if I would be comfortable using splayed knobs on a router plane. Probably just what you get used to but I really like the straight ones on my vintage routers.

So it'll be a pass for me but if I didn't already have a router plane and an assortment of blades, $189 is an attractive price for that one.


----------



## Mosquito

Kenny, what are your thoughts on open throat router vs outboard cutting iron?


----------



## Mosquito

I guess I never really did look at the Lee Valley router all that closely. It really is a copy of that with an upgraded cutter stack isn't it... I'd almost be willing to bet they worked with the same foundry that makes the Veritas bases and modified it for their new plane iron mechanism...


----------



## Notw

I already have the Veritas (Lee Valley) router plane and about the only other router plane I would want is a Stanley No 71-1/2 type 4 or 5 just because I like the old English script.


----------



## Mosquito

That's the style my Stanley #71 is NowW, and I'm also a fan of it (And my favorite user #45 is a Type 12, with the same script style trademark).


----------



## HokieKen

Mosquito said:


> Kenny, what are your thoughts on open throat router vs outboard cutting iron?


I typically find the open throat preferable because I like having the blade and the knobs more in line. Don't know why, it's just more comfortable to me. I feel like I have better fine control for tracing an outline. I also tend to cut in both directions, pushing and pulling, when flattening a recess bottom. The needed force to cut feels more consistent when the blade is between the knobs.


----------



## Mosquito

HokieKen said:


> I typically find the open throat preferable because I like having the blade and the knobs more in line. Don't know why, it's just more comfortable to me. I feel like I have better fine control for tracing an outline. I also tend to cut in both directions, pushing and pulling, when flattening a recess bottom. The needed force to cut feels more consistent when the blade is between the knobs.


Makes sense to me. My thought on it was that putting the iron outboard is leading with the iron instead of having the iron between the knobs, so the pivot point is the iron vs the knobs, essentially. Having the knobs significantly behind the iron feels like you're swinging the plane more than rotating it to control the edge of the iron


----------



## DevinT

Wow, so far no one showing any love for LN -- $250/ea at the time of this writing


----------



## Mosquito

I know the LN is a fine plane, and a traditional form, but if you can get past the angled knobs, I feel like the Lee Valley just offers more for the $60 lower price point. I really want to like the LN, because I do prefer that form, but with only the 1 width if iron, having to buy a $40 adapter to use $50 and $75 small router plane blades to get a different size (and only two at that), just ... ouch.

The Lee Valley router plane irons ranging from $18-$20 with the added bonus that they work in the Stanley pattern planes as well... it just feels like a better value, if that's what matters.

Don't take that as me saying the Veritas is a better plane, as I've not done a side by side, only used them at two disjoint times, and I would certainly not fault someone for buying a LN because they prefer the looks, or the company, or whatever, because I do it too. I do own a Walke-Moore, after all lol (which can also use the Lee Valley plane irons, with slight nuances).

That's just why I've not bought a LN router, personally


----------



## HokieKen

I think the fence design on the Veritas and the Katz Moses is better than the one on the LN. My Millers Falls has the same style fence though and it works fine. The main downside is the inability to use vintage or Veritas blades. And, like all modern versions, it's not offered in an open-throat version. Which I think I may be the only person who actually wants an open throat version anyway. I do like the knobs on the LN version better than the ones on the Veritas and KM offerings.


----------



## Mosquito

LN used to offer an open throat router 








And Bench Dog copied it


----------



## HokieKen

Ahh I don't recall ever seeing either of those. Still gonna stick with my Millers Falls 

I do like the fat knobs on that Bench Dog version. Wish I had seen that before I turned the knobs for mine...


----------



## Mosquito

Oh, and despite having the Preston clone, the Walke-Moore, and a LN Mini router, I have no plans to get rid of my Keen Kutter open throat #171, because I agree Kenny, I like having the open throat router plane for a lot of tasks (maybe that's because the first router plane I had for a long time was an open throat Stanley?)


----------



## bandit571

I'm more or less stuck with my Stanley No.71-1/2....type 5? Has the script Stanley...and just 2 counter sunk holes to attach any fence I need..


----------



## AMZ

Mosquito said:


> I guess I never really did look at the Lee Valley router all that closely. It really is a copy of that with an upgraded cutter stack isn't it... I'd almost be willing to bet they worked with the same foundry that makes the Veritas bases and modified it for their new plane iron mechanism...
> View attachment 3853948
> View attachment 3853949


I saw his YouTube video the other day and my first thought was he was buying and upgrading the LV router plane. He went on to say the name of who has casting his plane and I immediately thought of “Pacific rim knock-off”.

I have multiple vintage router planes and a LV. I think he invented a solution looking for a problem.


----------



## Mosquito

I actually don't have a fence for any of my router planes, I don't think... That's my excuse for getting a Walke-Moore with a fence, when they make them again finally lol (probably not)


----------



## Mosquito

I bought a bunch of Fales Patent plane bases last week, knowing without them being itemized or the seller not knowing anything about them, chances were high I'd already have some, if not all 8 of them. I figured I'd be lucky to get one base set I didn't have.

Well I got two! And they're both some of the much more rare ones at that, a quarter round and a v-groove. Color me excited. Though now I have to figure out making some irons for them...


----------



## terryR

I guess I have to stand up for poor ol LN. LOL Love their router just fine. Although I never get to use it.











the Fales patent bases look intriguing. Mos, let me know if you want help with the irons. This new forge heats plane irons to orange in about 60 seconds!


----------



## RWE

Speaking of Millers Falls, I wish I had gotten Kenny as my plane swap victim. I could have thrown in this fine Millers Falls offering. For the man who has everything, but has knarly ugly toe nails.

MIllers Falls toe nail clippers. They do look pretty cool, i have to admit.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Speaking of the Secret Santa, there was talk a while back of allowing early shipping. What do y’all think about that? With some of the frustrations of the changeover here, maybe getting a plane in the mail would be just the antidote.


----------



## Mosquito

terryR said:


> I guess I have to stand up for poor ol LN. LOL Love their router just fine. Although I never get to use it.
> 
> View attachment 3854000
> 
> 
> 
> the Fales patent bases look intriguing. Mos, let me know if you want help with the irons. This new forge heats plane irons to orange in about 60 seconds!


lol Still a nice plane Terry, and those Wenge wooden bits you made for all yours are still fantastic.

Much appreciated on the irons Terry, I might send you a PM at some point. I think I might have to finally break down and figure out how to get these things made, but having a connection for heat treating, at the least, wouldn't be a bad thing, thank you  I'm not really set up to make irons yet


----------



## HokieKen

I thought we were free to ship at anytime Dave? You’re the ringmaster so it’s your call!

RWE you got me all excited for a second. But that’s Millers FORGE not Falls 🙁


----------



## RWE

Well at least I am consistent. (making an idiot of myself) Then again maybe Millers Forge makes hand planes??


----------



## Notw

miller falls of miller forge, who cuts their finger or toe nails with scissors???


----------



## Mosquito

haha I used to... in fact, it was the scissors on my Gerber multi-tool that I used for trimming toe and fingernails for quite a few years, because I was too lazy to buy actual clippers lol


----------



## DavePolaschek

HokieKen said:


> I thought we were free to ship at anytime Dave? You’re the ringmaster so it’s your call!


Well, there it is. Release the hounds!

If you’re involved in the Secret Santa, go ahead and ship whenever you’re ready. Just make sure it goes out around US Thanksgiving at latest. We wan everyone to get their new hand plane before Christmas.


----------



## Mosquito

Put the burden of waiting on the receiver


----------



## HokieKen

Notw said:


> miller falls of miller forge, who cuts their finger or toe nails with scissors???


No kidding. That's what pocket knives are for.


----------



## Sylvain

those are no scissors.
those are pliers with the characteristic curved edge shape of nail clippers (a bit like electrician cutting pliers but curved).


----------



## Lazyman

DavePolaschek said:


> Speaking of the Secret Santa, there was talk a while back of allowing early shipping. What do y’all think about that? With some of the frustrations of the changeover here, maybe getting a plane in the mail would be just the antidote.


I am not participating in the SS swap this year but I though it was a little anticlimactic to have the pictures trickle in over the course of several months last year. Just a bystander's thought.

EDIT: too late, I should have gone to the next page before responding.


----------



## Notw

Nathan, wonder if we can add hashtags # to the secret Santa post, something unique like #secretSanta2022 so they can be easily searched?


----------



## Lazyman

Notw said:


> Nathan, wonder if we can add hashtags # to the secret Santa post, something unique like #secretSanta2022 so they can be easily searched?


That is actually a great idea. I just tried it and it found your post.


----------



## controlfreak

HokieKen said:


> No kidding. That's what pocket knives are for.


I think I came close with a chisel once.


----------



## Lazyman

I have trimmed my nails with my belt sander a few times but my knuckles kept getting in the way.


----------



## Mosquito

Lazyman said:


> Notw said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nathan, wonder if we can add hashtags # to the secret Santa post, something unique like #secretSanta2022 so they can be easily searched?
> 
> 
> 
> That is actually a great idea. I just tried it and it found your post.
Click to expand...

I believe that's what we used to do with tags on all the swap threads? At least we encouraged it


----------



## bandit571

About half way through a rehab...Frog area is looking better..








That be a BIG screw in the knob, all rust removed...Not sure about that pin through the sides...








Have some cracks to repair...no, that mouth opening is not adjustable...iron has been sharpened up...








Do I leave the screws shiny, or paint them black? Have to repair the missing chunk of the horn...and shine the top plate...

Sole is quite worn, will try to plane it flat..we'll see...


----------



## Mosquito

Anyone have a good source of Ohio Tool Company information? (looking at you @donwilwol ) Trying to see what I can find about Ohio 099's. I came across Don's Ohio Tool Company website, but doesn't seem to have a ton up on it yet (and I think it was made 2 years ago). 

Any sorts of catalogs (No. 23, I think?) would be awesome, or other information. I believe I've got two different types of 099's as there are some slight but significant differences between the two


----------



## Mosquito

bandit571 said:


> About half way through a rehab...Frog area is looking better..
> View attachment 3854083
> 
> That be a BIG screw in the knob, all rust removed...Not sure about that pin through the sides...
> View attachment 3854084
> 
> Have some cracks to repair...no, that mouth opening is not adjustable...iron has been sharpened up...
> View attachment 3854085
> 
> Do I leave the screws shiny, or paint them black? Have to repair the missing chunk of the horn...and shine the top plate...
> 
> Sole is quite worn, will try to plane it flat..we'll see...


I vote shiny, if the adjustment knobs, and screws for the knob are shiny


----------



## Lazyman

Mosquito said:


> I believe that's what we used to do with tags on all the swap threads? At least we encouraged it


Same idea but since the SS reveals are done in this thread, if you put the hashtag term in the text, the search will find them. It will sort of act as a freeform tag. It technically doesn't need the # but that make sit easy.


----------



## Mosquito

Excellent point, I'm still stuck in the mindset that "LumberJocks search just sucks" of 11 years of experience


----------



## DavePolaschek

bandit571 said:


> Do I leave the screws shiny, or paint them black? Have to repair the missing chunk of the horn...and shine the top plate...
> 
> Sole is quite worn, will try to plane it flat..we'll see...


I would paint them, but at a minimum, I would clean them up and oil them.

As for the sole, I would plane it flat and see how much is missing at that point. It looks like a prime candidate for having a new piece of wood put onto the sole (I prefer ipe, as it’s pretty long-wearing), but purists might not approve.

Given the rough shape it was in, it’s looking pretty good, Bandit!


----------



## corelz125

Mos Brian Akers has an Ohio tool website. It's in the process of info being added.





Ohio Tool Company | Bench Plane Types


Here is the overarching type study of the Ohio Tool Co bench planes.




www.ohiotoolcompany.com


----------



## Mosquito

corelz125 said:


> Mos Brian Akers has an Ohio tool website. It's in the process of info being added.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ohio Tool Company | Bench Plane Types
> 
> 
> Here is the overarching type study of the Ohio Tool Co bench planes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ohiotoolcompany.com


That's the one I found on Dons website, didn't look like it had been updated in a while, and wasn't much there for me on 099. I'll have to do some more digging around there though, thanks


----------



## donwilwol

Message Brian off his site. He's a great guy and has more Ohio knowledge than probably anyone


----------



## DavePolaschek

Lazyman said:


> I am not participating in the SS swap this year but I though it was a little anticlimactic to have the pictures trickle in over the course of several months last year. Just a bystander's thought.
> 
> EDIT: too late, I should have gone to the next page before responding.


I agree, Nathan. But with the conversion happening, and the natives somewhat restless, I figured a surprise package in the mail and a few reveals might lighten the mood.

I’m finding I liked the pagination algorithm on the old site better too. Sigh.


----------



## donwilwol

I really can't figure out how to use this site yet. Yesterday I tried to find one of my old blogs. That was a lesson in frustration.


----------



## Lazyman

donwilwol said:


> I really can't figure out how to use this site yet. Yesterday I tried to find one of my old blogs. That was a lesson in frustration.


The blogs are now in a forum called blogs. Try this search and see if that finds them for you. I searched by your member name and subset the forum as blogs. Note that they are still looking at blogs so I suppose this could change at some point. 

EDIT to add: if you know the name the blog you are looking for, you can modify the filter to include that name and check the box to search only the titles. 



https://www.lumberjocks.com/search/4177/


----------



## donwilwol

I eventually found it. Your search brings me to an "OPPS" page !!


----------



## Lazyman

Hmm. I thought that I have given links to searches before that worked?


----------



## KentInOttawa

donwilwol said:


> I eventually found it. Your search brings me to an "OPPS" page !!


 6 hours after the fact, and I got the same result.


Lazyman said:


> Hmm. I thought that I have given links to searches before that worked?


So I went to see if I could do better. But now the Blogs option and even the Forums selection are missing from across the top of the page navigation. Cricket must be working overtime trying to get the site's functionality back.

I hope she gets it before too much longer...


----------



## Mosquito

Coming off the overarm router, I only had a 1" diameter bit, so took a #5, #3, #10 approach to taking out the center ridge. 

#5 fit between the outsides after the first pass, it was pretty much guided by that. Clean up last bit with the #3, then clean up what the #3 left with a couple passes with the #10 to get the corners.


----------



## HokieKen

Whatcha makin’ Mos’?


----------



## KentInOttawa

Mos, as someone who doesn't have a #10, would a 78 (or variant) have worked for that? Can you see any down side to using it?


----------



## Mosquito

HokieKen said:


> Whatcha makin’ Mos’?


I'm making some more of those pumpkin tea light boxes I made last year. A friend who had asked to buy one last year, asked to buy the one I had kept from myself + 3 more, so making a whole bunch of them now. There will be 3 more with the spalted maple double sided, and I've got a stack of plain maple ones ready to be made in to boxes eventually. Changed the design a little bit to make it a little easier to assemble with this round.












KentInOttawa said:


> Mos, as someone who doesn't have a #10, would a 78 (or variant) have worked for that? Can you see any down side to using it?


Probably would have worked fine, or if I had cambered the iron on my #3 a little bit, it probably wouldn't have been an issue either. Basically it was to remove plane tracks from the #3


----------



## donwilwol

KentInOttawa said:


> Mos, as someone who doesn't have a #10, would a 78 (or variant) have worked for that? Can you see any down side to using it?


Well, after a week or so I've figured out the quote thing!

Using a 78 for a 10 is like showing up for a party with non alcoholic beer. As long as you don't tell anybody, you're fine.


----------



## corelz125

How about a #29,instead Don


----------



## donwilwol

corelz125 said:


> How about a #29,instead Don


Moral of the story, bring real beer! I'm a firm believer in using the tools you have.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Hmm. According to USPS tracking, someone got a hand plane from Santa today.


----------



## corelz125




----------



## corelz125

Christmas came before Halloween this year. Came home to a box with this Union transitional with its own little house. Thanks Dave. Now I feel pressure to start on mine.


----------



## HokieKen

donwilwol said:


> Moral of the story, bring real beer! I'm a firm believer in using the tools you have.


I’m a firm believer in buying more tools I don’t need 😆

Nice score Corlez! Very cool package Santa Dave


----------



## EricFai

Nice Corelz, looks like you did well on the receiving end. 

Nice job Dave, liking the little box.


----------



## DavePolaschek

It’s a pretty nice little plane, I think, Corelz. Hope you enjoy it and make a bunch of shavings with it. I didn’t quite get the frog adjusted so the (Stanley) lateral is dead center, but it’s pretty close, and I used it to smooth the little box, so it seemed to work.

Edited to add: I wrote up the box.

Also, here’s the “before reassembly” photo of the plane. It was pretty spattered with white house paint when I got it, but I don’t seem to have taken a before photo. The knob and body got three coats of tung oil after cleaning off the worst of the paint and grime. The metal bits just got scrubbed and a coat of oil.


----------



## bandit571

Someone will have to wait until I can ship out a box....on or about the 3rd Wednesday of October....


----------



## corelz125

Nice restore Dave


----------



## KentInOttawa

My thin strip thicknessing jig was causing me some more grief, so I elected to place a pin to help hold the outfeed end of the workpiece down. The smallest gimlet from Lee Valley was just the tool to start and align the very small 5/8" nail that I had.










That worked well enough until the nail bent under the load. So I drive a #6 screw down through the hole to locate it and then drove in back up the hole.










That works much better now. I'm still dialling in the #4. I'd like a little thinner shavings, but not by much.










I plane until I get a full-length shaving, then flip the stock and plane down until final thickness is achieved and the plane stops taking more off. The repeatability is wonderful.


----------



## terryR

Ebony and Bronze, 7” long. Blade is 1.5” wide.


----------



## bandit571

Was put to work, last night..








cleaning up resaws








This is a "before" of the same board...was resawn down to 5/8" thick...
And set up and test drove..








3/16" cutter, means I can only use the main stock...sliding stock would make it too wide. Grooves are 3/16" wide, by 3/8" deep..and they will also be going in the end grain....


----------



## DavePolaschek

In another thread, there was talk of people leaving because of the software change around here. That’s each person’s decision, and nobody can stop you, but as far as I’m concerned, if you signed up for the Secret Santa, don’t leave before you’ve sent off your goodies. If you do leave without sending off your Secret Santa plane, you’re a quitter and a cheat.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Lol, as I responded in that thread im planning on shipping my planes out this week. If I can get to the post office anyway.

If however, due to my considering leaving my santa does not want to send my gift that is fine and there will be no hard feelings. I signed up for the swap and will absolutely fulfill my obligations. I dont plan on just leaving right now and may stay around after I get used to the new setup.


----------



## HokieKen

Well I’m both of those things depending on the situation. But I’ll still be on the site and sending out my Santa package 😆


----------



## Mosquito

terryR said:


> View attachment 3854767
> 
> 
> Ebony and Bronze, 7” long. Blade is 1.5” wide.


Terry, that plane looks awesome! How are you doing the engravings on the lever cap?


----------



## terryR

Chalco Stamp & Die Co.


Manufacturers of metal stamps and dies. Engraving by Hand and Machine




www.chalcostamp.co.uk





Thanks, Mos. It’s a metal stamp that I hit with a 5lb hammer. I got it from Chalco Tool and Die


----------



## Mosquito

very nice, that's a dang good looking stamp


----------



## corelz125

I'm taking my santa plane and going home. Started working on the one i'm shipping thanks to Dave for giving me a push to get started. Turns out needs more work than I originally figured.


----------



## bandit571

in use, today...








Cleaning up after the chisels left a mess..


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Shipped a box of goodies today. One of the items is sort of ironic....you will understand once you see what it is! Hope you enjoy!


----------



## bandit571

Shipping here will be on or after the 3rd Wednesday of this month...will send Tracking number once I get it...


----------



## DavePolaschek

I did find the “master list” of who’s shipping to who the other day, and blue-taped it to the inside of the door of my shop. I look forward to crossing names off as I see postings about received goodies here.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Having never done this before I am unnecessarily nervous!


----------



## Notw

bandit571 said:


> in use, today...
> View attachment 3855026


Of course Bandit has the router plane I want and probably got it for a song


----------



## bandit571

And..I use it...








In use today, in fact...along with









Stanley No.3, Type 11....doing round-overs...








Almost done...ends were easier..








Pencil line is a stop line..3/16" down. Makes a mess..








And this was from just rounding the 2 ends of the box...


----------



## controlfreak

I just want to know how he made it shinny


----------



## BlasterStumps

My latest acquisition is a Stanley No 5 Type 11. I took it apart and found the cutting edge of the blade to look like this:















looks hollow ground too boot. Maybe I will sharpen it like the PO to see how it works before doing anything else to it.


----------



## Lazyman

DavePolaschek said:


> I did find the “master list” of who’s shipping to who the other day, and blue-taped it to the inside of the door of my shop. I look forward to crossing names off as I see postings about received goodies here.


You might try using the new bookmark feature of the site as then post them to save them so you can go back and find them more easily later. You can also ask people to use a specific hashtag when they post their pictures so that the search feature will find them more easily.. I think someone mentioned that before?


----------



## DavePolaschek

I might indeed. There are a lot of things I’m trying to figure out what the best solution to is here in the new world order.


----------



## BugeyedEarl

BlasterStumps said:


> My latest acquisition is a Stanley No 5 Type 11. I took it apart and found the cutting edge of the blade to look like this:
> View attachment 3855206
> View attachment 3855207
> 
> looks hollow ground too boot. Maybe I will sharpen it like the PO to see how it works before doing anything else to it.


I came across a winner like that on a 4-1/2 that I picked up recently. Crudely ground iron:










Nice chunky 45 degree bevel:










No idea what the chipbreaker did to deserve this treatment:










I have some work to do...


----------



## corelz125

Thats the part I hate the most in rehabbing. The majority of the irons the bevels are all over or chipped. When they look like that Earl I just grind them flat and straight across. Then start a new bevel


----------



## BlasterStumps

someone got carried away on that chip breaker. 
My wry neck is some better today so I was able to give the blade from the No 5 a quick sharpening not changing the grind, and it works surprisingly well. I think I will leave it ground as is since regrinding would shorten the blade more. It is the third plane that I have purchased from the same seller. I now have a 4, 4 1/2, and a 5 from her. She must have found an old tool chest with those planes in it. 
Oddly enough, without really trying, I have collected a 3, 4, 4 1/2, 5, 5 1/2, and all have three patent dates. I also have a low knob 2 that has the same logo on the blade. 
Here is a pic of the No 5


----------



## HokieKen

Hollow grind makes for fast sharpening Mike. Especially if you’re honing by hand. Also makes freehanding pretty idiot proof.


----------



## KentInOttawa

BugeyedEarl said:


> I came across a winner like that on a 4-1/2 that I picked up recently. Crudely ground iron:
> 
> View attachment 3855243
> 
> 
> Nice chunky 45 degree bevel:
> 
> View attachment 3855244
> 
> 
> No idea what the chipbreaker did to deserve this treatment:
> 
> View attachment 3855247
> 
> 
> I have some work to do...


I received this tapered blade a few years ago. The most reasonable explanation for the grind that I could come up with is that someone tried to explain the concept of a hollow grind to the original owner when he was away from home (I'm thinking Church or a trip to town). He didn't quite understand the concept clearly but tried to implement it anyway when he got home.








I just touch up the leading edge on this seldom-used blade when I need to because it's just too damned much work to grind out all of that mess.


----------



## BlasterStumps

wow Kent, that is a rough end on that blade. How do you suppose?


----------



## KentInOttawa

BlasterStumps said:


> wow Kent, that is a rough end on that blade. How do you suppose?


Well, if he didn't understand the geometry and centred the initial point of contact poorly...








With the marks on that blade, he obviously used a VERY course slow-speed grinding wheel. Most probably a hand-cranked one.


----------



## BlasterStumps

almost looks like the blade was broken there.


----------



## bandit571

IF I remember correctly...those were laminated irons. Looks like one corner also got a bit too hot?


----------



## KentInOttawa

bandit571 said:


> IF I remember correctly...those were laminated irons. Looks like one corner also got a bit too hot?


Yes to the lamination. The red is just some Sharpie that I apply to help compensate for my poor vision, and the dark spot at the front corner is actually reflecting something darker than its surroundings. IIRC the light reflecting is from the window in the basement shop where this was taken (a few years back).


----------



## bandit571

In use this morning..








Stanley No. 3, Type 11....had to level the top and bottom edges...


----------



## MikeB_UK

KentInOttawa said:


> Well, if he didn't understand the geometry and centred the initial point of contact poorly...
> View attachment 3855303
> 
> With the marks on that blade, he obviously used a VERY course slow-speed grinding wheel. Most probably a hand-cranked one.


If you're particularly good at freehand (or use a guide) that'd still work though - in your sketch you will only sharpen about half the iron you would with a flat grind.
It's more a secondary bevel than a hollow grind, but should work fine in the plane.


----------



## Lazyman

MikeB_UK said:


> t's more a secondary bevel than a hollow grind,


That is what I was thinking. I think that they may have done that to make it easier to sharpen by hand so that they didn't have such a large bevel to hone.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

According to the tracking number someone in New Mexico should have a package!


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thedustydutchman said:


> According to the tracking number someone in New Mexico should have a package!


Yeah, I got notice of the delivery last night, but it’s at the gang-mailbox a half-mile away. I’ll retrieve it during the morning walk a little later on and report back either later this morning or this afternoon.

Yesterday was an outing. We went up to Johnnie Meier’s Classical Gas Museum in Embudo and looked at old gas pumps and oil cans and such. Pretty dang good time.




























Fun outing!


----------



## bandit571

Have to watch using this thing...








As leaks will sometimes happen..








Right Ring Finger...I guess this is now an Official Wood working project?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Santa was early this year, in the form of TheDustyDutchman! I received a transitional smoother (similar to the Union I sent Corelz). Haven’t had a chance to give it a try yet, as we were doing yard work this morning, and I seem to have overdone it a bit, loading brush into the pickup and am now laying down for a bit, but it sure looks good, and it looks as though it has all the parts.










It was also accompanied by a little brother.










I haven’t tried adjusting the blade and using it, but it sure is a cute little guy! I can probably even find room for it in my plane till! ;-)










Thanks, Jerry! Much appreciated, and I think you did fine for your first Secret Santa!

Is #HPOYD_SecretSanta_2022 the tag we agreed on? I can change it if there’s something better to use.


----------



## HokieKen

Great package Dusty!


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Glad you like them! When I saw you give the union transitional away I had to laugh because that Stanley is so similar. It is complete, type 7 (I think) late 1800s. I repainted all the steel and cleaned everything else up. The body was lightly sanded to leave the patina then finished in blo and wax. The little guy was honestly hard for me to give up! I've been wanting to make one for a long time so I figured this was the perfect opportunity. I have a surprisingly large amount of time into it lol. The knob and tote are both curly maple. Totally stripped it down and repainted it as well. Hope they serve you well!

The iron in the little guy has a slight taper from side to side, I like to do them that way for cleaning up edges and you can get varying depth that way sort of like a spokeshave. Realistically its probably more of a display peice anyway.


----------



## DanKrager

This huge dovetail in oak was more than the 444 wanted to do yesterday, so resorted to the array seen here (less the handsaw).


















Details are in the fine print.
DanK


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thedustydutchman said:


> When I saw you give the union transitional away I had to laugh because that Stanley is so similar.


Yeah, I had to look at it a couple times to make sure it wasn’t a Union. ;-) When I bought the Union on eBay, it was bundled with a Sargent transitional that was less paint-spattered, but maybe in slightly worse condition. I still haven’t cleaned it up yet, but the big trannie I got from Santa last year was also a Sargent, so I figured I would start building a set.



Thedustydutchman said:


> Realistically its probably more of a display peice anyway.


Yeah, especially with my huge paws, but I was thinking I might find some uses for it, since I seem to make a lot of small boxes where even my block planes are too big. I’ll definitely give it a try next time I’m in the shop and feeling better.

Thanks again, Santa Jerry!


----------



## bandit571

having trouble...








Can't get that dang screw to budge....giving it a PBlaster soak, at the moment...had to go out and buy a new bandsaw blade, too..








As this block of wood BROKE the blade that used to be in the bandsaw..


----------



## corelz125

Have a transitional smoother of your own now Dave. Nice work on that little finger plane


----------



## DavePolaschek

That‘s tough, Bandit! I haven’t pulled that plate off a tote on a Gage before, so I’m not sure what it screws into, but I’m guessing its a wood screw going into wood… but someone might’ve “fixed” it over the years, so who knows. Good luck getting it apart!

Yeah, Corelz. I suspect I’ll end up with a bunch before I’m done.


----------



## bandit571

2nd soak of PB..square handled Irwin screwdriver....a few taps with a hammer ( NOT "love taps", either) and it finally "broke" free....left about 1/2 of the threaded part down IN the wood...Was going to replace that screw, anyway...need to install the new bandsaw blade, tomorrow....have feet to carve for a box, and a handle to rough out

Oh, and find 2 small screws to hold that top plate to the top of the handle....


----------



## bandit571

I guess a Stanley No.80 would be considered a "plane"?








Got put to work, today...


----------



## EricFai

Stopped at the Flea market today, found 2 planes.

1 a Stanley (Made in England) SB4, I have never seen an adjuster like this one, not sure of the date yet. I did find out that the Staney planes were not made in England until after 1936. I don't think it is that old, it dies have plastic knob and tote, wondering if they were replaced at some time in the past, the screws are straight blades.









The second one I am not finding any marking to help me Identify it. The frog area appears to look like a wishbone, which i found it was after WWII, it does have Made in USA embosed behind the knob. Both the knob and the tote are again plastic, the screws are phillips to include the ones to hold the frog. The underside of the lever cap has a hollow casting that looks like a large crosshatches. I do see a stamping in the top of the frog "G16" 


















Any suggestions as to manufacturing company and possible date would be appeached.


----------



## bandit571

First one is a Stanley No. SB4

Second one is a Great Neck Tool Co. No. 4. 

Replacement handle is about...








Done. Had to dig around to find a few replacement screws...








To replace the snapped off one. And 2 for the top plate..








Might just work...waiting on a coat of shellac ...


----------



## donwilwol

what's wrong with search. I searched "Hand planes of your dreams" and this post didn't come up!!



https://v-cg.etsystatic.com/video/upload/ac_none,du_15,q_auto:good/VID_20221009_120704843_sb0ppi.mp4




And i what the trick to posting video?


----------



## Lazyman

donwilwol said:


> what's wrong with search. I searched "Hand planes of your dreams" and this post didn't come up!!


Did you try advanced search? When you click in the search community box at the top, below it will give you an option for advanced search. Select that and then cllick the search titles only check box. You can also try putting "hand planes of your dreams" including the quotes but you have to spell it exactly as it appears. After search, you may need to click filter and sort by most recent.


----------



## Lazyman

donwilwol said:


> And i what the trick to posting video?


I may be wrong but I think that the site only recognizes hosted streaming video sites as video like YouTube and Vimeo. It looks to me that your link above is just an mp4 file stored in the cloud. It still download and plays in another browser tab or window if you click on it but the site doesn't stream it into the web page.

EDIT to add: just paste a video link from YouTube or Vimeo into the text box to have it show up as a video.


----------



## donwilwol

i did try the advanced search, it's how i eventually found it. I'm not finding this new software much better than the old.


----------



## Lazyman

I was able to find it without the advanced search by using the sort by most recent drop down after the search. Because this is a fairly active thread, the activity will put it near the top. If you are looking for a thread that has not been active for a while, the advance search is the way to go but it will likely take several tries to find it, especially if you do not remember the exact title. 

I think that the search is pretty powerful but it's idea of sorting by relevance is not good from what I can tell. If you search for "hand plane dream" without the quotes for example and check the search titles only box, It would seem to me that the most relevant results should have titles with the most words from the search.


----------



## Johnny7

donwilwol said:


> what's wrong with search. I searched "Hand planes of your dreams" and this post didn't come up!!
> 
> 
> 
> https://v-cg.etsystatic.com/video/upload/ac_none,du_15,q_auto:good/VID_20221009_120704843_sb0ppi.mp4


You need to type the phrase with "handplanes" as a single word (no space between "hand" and "planes")


----------



## duckmilk

donwilwol said:


> what's wrong with search. I searched "Hand planes of your dreams" and this post didn't come up!!


It could be that you typed in hand planes instead of handplanes which is how it is spelled in the thread.


----------



## duckmilk

Both of us typing at the same time


----------



## DevinT

I finally did it. I put my second Rob Cosman AdjuSTAR on a plane — this one went on the coveted No 8. It’s an improvement over the 1-inch diameter Type 11 brass wheel, for sure. It’s not for everyone but I like it and am contemplating putting it on a third plane.


----------



## DevinT

How do I secure my lumber for hand planing? Well, it’s not through a bench dog or sundry, but rarher … 




the benefit here is that it is secured for surfacing should I find that it resists hand planing or I simply do a horrible job and need to pull out the router.

just make sure not to put a strip of tape down the center of the board — I specifically put the tape within reach of a putty knife from the edge to aid in the release process which involves a putty knife and a dead blow mallet


----------



## DanKrager

YMMV, but I've found a heat gun aimed at the gap created by the tape will release the tape without danger of damaging the wood with a pry tool or pulling splinters. It works for two way tapes and hot glue.
DanK


----------



## DevinT

Hmm, I’ll give that a shot here and see how it works in this situation. Low or high heat setting?


----------



## DevinT

What I have done is to get the edge of the putty knife under the tap so that it deforms the tape but if your method works as well as you say I will definitely forego the dead blow hammer and kraft joint knife (which works well because it is a solid piece of metal)


----------



## DevinT

Here goes nothing …


----------



## DevinT

I mean, I don’t know. I ended up just ripping the thing up with leverage by bracing myself against the bench and leaning back while holding the back edge and keeping constant pressure until it gave. Maybe I was too impatient, but adding a bunch of unnecessary heat to this board that I worked hard to prepare just felt wrong and maybe I didn’t apply it long enough. I have my doubts.


----------



## corelz125

donwilwol said:


> i did try the advanced search, it's how i eventually found it. I'm not finding this new software much better than the old.


It's not Don. They complicated something that was simple.


----------



## Mosquito

DevinT said:


> How do I secure my lumber for hand planing? Well, it’s not through a bench dog or sundry, but rarher …
> 
> the benefit here is that it is secured for surfacing should I find that it resists hand planing or I simply do a horrible job and need to pull out the router.
> 
> just make sure not to put a strip of tape down the center of the board — I specifically put the tape within reach of a putty knife from the edge to aid in the release process which involves a putty knife and a dead blow mallet


I use that trick on the CNC all the time, much quicker than having to use tabs for outside cuts when I can't use clamps otherwise. Helps cut down on material waste, if I don't have to have enough material all the way around the part to be cut so I can have clamp and cutting clearance. Hadn't thought about using it for hand planing before.



DevinT said:


> I mean, I don’t know. I ended up just ripping the thing up with leverage by bracing myself against the bench and leaning back while holding the back edge and keeping constant pressure until it gave. Maybe I was too impatient, but adding a bunch of unnecessary heat to this board that I worked hard to prepare just felt wrong and maybe I didn’t apply it long enough. I have my doubts.


I would tend to agree here, I tried it with my CNC tape-gluing a few times, and unless the part was aluminum, I never really liked it either. But then, your feelings might change if you were planing 1/8" thick material too, where you can't muscle it up without the risk of snapping it in half either... I can say it does when I'm on the CNC lol

When the part was aluminum it worked great


----------



## Mosquito

corelz125 said:


> It's not Don. They complicated something that was simple.


 While I 100% agree, they also couldn't maintain it either, and the old site had its share of issues too, we were just all used to them.

I will miss tormenting Kenny with big ass links though


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah I always enjoyed the big asses you posted links to Mos'.


----------



## Mosquito

I chose my words carefully lol Next time, I'll send you links that aren't mine...


----------



## HokieKen

Personally I've found the search function to be much better on this software than on the previous. One thing I don't like is that the OP is no longer pinned at the top of each page. Not a big deal on most threads but for swap threads if I want to look at the list of participants or the deadline dates, I have to go back to the first page of the thread. I think that's pretty typical on most forums though so I don't imagine I'll see it change. I can certainly live with it


----------



## BlasterStumps

I cleaned up the No 5 type 11 I bought the other day. I managed to get the cream colored paint off the tote. Now I understand why someone punched their initials into the left side. It's a nice plane and that someone didn't want to loose it. 























It has a new home on the wall above the bench.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Turned out nice! I love the way you have them displayed. Might have to do something like that in my shop


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Jerry.


----------



## EricFai

Very nice display there.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Eric.


----------



## Lazyman

Hmm. I might have look through my planes. I could swear that I have seen a VT mark like that somewhere before.


----------



## HokieKen




----------



## Lazyman

That is probably it.


----------



## Lazyman

I knew I had seen something in my plane hoard like that. I guess this is actually a J and not a V


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have other tools that have initials on them too but this is the first plane with the initials punched into the cheek. I'm glad the person chose to use a sharp punch and smallish hammer. : )


----------



## HokieKen

Using a punch on a thin section of cast iron like that was pretty ballsy to begin with!


----------



## bandit571

messy bench?

















Nah, whatever gave you THAT idea...


----------



## DevinT

.


----------



## bandit571

Jonathan Thomas? Or, Maybe his Brother Vern?


----------



## EricFai

I just see tools Bandit, no mess


----------



## donwilwol

I'm burning electrodes today!!


----------



## EricFai

Just a few


----------



## corelz125

Some pile of mulch there Don


----------



## HokieKen

I know a lot of us were familiar with drsurfrat in this thread. I don't know how publicly he made it known but he was diagnosed with cancer earlier this year and passed away last week. His wife sent me the e-mail below:

*Hi Kenny,*
_*
This is Eileen, Mike’s wife. Unfortunately I have sad news. Mike passed away on Oct. 6th. He so loved interacting with you all on LumberJocks as well as personal emails. I really enjoyed talking to him about what was going on “with the guys” . I’ve enclosed a link to his obituary. Please pass it on to anyone you think should know about him.

Michael A. Johnson
*_
*Eileen*


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thanks for passing that along, Kenny. Maybe Cricket can add him to the In Memoriam list…


----------



## bandit571

Next Wednesday or so, will be shipping out a box.....

I was also burning electrons, yesterday...and got bit..








When the board had a blow-out...








Oooops...


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Saw this Knuckle Joint Cap Block Plane on FleaBay, and had to share. 








Too funny....
I'm not expert, but it looks like a No2 with replacement lever cap?









Vintage Stanley Knuckle Joint Cap Block Plane Pat. 2-18-13 7 1/2" SW Sweet Heart | eBay


Appears this is a Stanley number 2 bench plane on which a knuckle action lever cap from a block plane was installed. Width of cutter blade is 1 5/8" which can be seen in the last picture. Sharp cutter, adjusts well, knuckle opens and locks in place securely - very good overall condition.



www.ebay.com


----------



## Notw

HokieKen said:


> I know a lot of us were familiar with drsurfrat in this thread. I don't know how publicly he made it known but he was diagnosed with cancer earlier this year and passed away last week. His wife sent me the e-mail below:
> 
> *Hi Kenny,*
> 
> _*This is Eileen, Mike’s wife. Unfortunately I have sad news. Mike passed away on Oct. 6th. He so loved interacting with you all on LumberJocks as well as personal emails. I really enjoyed talking to him about what was going on “with the guys” . I’ve enclosed a link to his obituary. Please pass it on to anyone you think should know about him.
> 
> Michael A. Johnson*_
> 
> *Eileen*


This is terrible new, he was a really great guy, he will be missed


----------



## CaptainKlutz

HokieKen said:


> I know a lot of us were familiar with drsurfrat in this thread. I don't know how publicly he made it known but he was diagnosed with cancer earlier this year and passed away last week.


Crap news. Another one bites the dust....Wait....Will play some Queen in the shop this morning in remembrance. ☹


----------



## Mosquito

HokieKen said:


> I know a lot of us were familiar with drsurfrat in this thread. I don't know how publicly he made it known but he was diagnosed with cancer earlier this year and passed away last week. His wife sent me the e-mail below:
> 
> *Hi Kenny,*
> 
> _*This is Eileen, Mike’s wife. Unfortunately I have sad news. Mike passed away on Oct. 6th. He so loved interacting with you all on LumberJocks as well as personal emails. I really enjoyed talking to him about what was going on “with the guys” . I’ve enclosed a link to his obituary. Please pass it on to anyone you think should know about him.
> 
> Michael A. Johnson*_
> 
> *Eileen*


Aw man... I didn't know that, thanks for sharing Kenny


----------



## waho6o9

Rest In Peace drsurfrat.


----------



## TedT2

HokieKen said:


> I know a lot of us were familiar with drsurfrat in this thread. I don't know how publicly he made it known but he was diagnosed with cancer earlier this year and passed away last week. His wife sent me the e-mail below:
> 
> *Hi Kenny,*
> 
> _*This is Eileen, Mike’s wife. Unfortunately I have sad news. Mike passed away on Oct. 6th. He so loved interacting with you all on LumberJocks as well as personal emails. I really enjoyed talking to him about what was going on “with the guys” . I’ve enclosed a link to his obituary. Please pass it on to anyone you think should know about him.
> 
> Michael A. Johnson*_
> 
> *Eileen*


I hate to hear that. I had the privilege of giving to him last year in the Secret Santa exchange. That is sad…


----------



## corelz125

I just read the post from cricket about Mike. I was wondering where we was lately. That sucks he was a nice guy young to


----------



## EricFai

Kenny, thanks for sharing the news about Mike, he was a wonderful guy and will be missed.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I agree, he will be missed.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photos for today...








Stanley No. 71-1/2....Veritas 1/4" cutter. As for that little fellow?








He got put to work, as well....








Look very carefully..and you will see a Type 2 Millers Falls No. 11...trying to hide from Kenny...


----------



## DevinT

RIP drsurfrat


----------



## HokieKen

Release that #11 Bandit!


----------



## KentInOttawa

I did a little bit of flattening of some laminated panels today. It feels really good when the plane is sharp and cutting well enough to do curls like this in some exotic hardwoods.


----------



## DevinT

Santos Mahogany?


----------



## KentInOttawa

DevinT said:


> Santos Mahogany?


A thin strip of Purple Heart between hard Maple and Bloodwood (although it might be Snakewood; they are related. I bought a box of offcuts from the local hardwood supplier).


----------



## bandit571

And..I now have a tracking number! Planes have been mailed this morning...heading towards Holland, MI....should arrive this coming Friday's mail...


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Hey I'm in Holland MI!


----------



## EricFai

I have a daughter in Sparta, MI.


----------



## Notw

EricFai said:


> I have a daughter in Sparta, MI.


I doubt she is going to get any hand planes from Bandit 😥


----------



## EricFai

Notw said:


> I doubt she is going to get any hand planes from Bandit 😥


Probably not.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Sparta is not to far from me. Around an hour drive.


----------



## EricFai

Jerry, yes it is, The last time I went up there I went through Holland.


----------



## Notw

Not endorsing this auction nor to I personally plan on bidding on anything but Mr. Fred West, Jr. had a beautiful collection of hand tools. Some items here really worth drooling over. 








Hand Tool Collection of Fred H. West Jr. | Day 1 | November 8, 2022 at 10:00 AM


Alderfer’s welcomes the Hand Tool Collection of Fred West, Jr. for a two-day sale that will offer a wide array of handcrafted woodworking tools. Fred West, Jr. was a patron of the hand tool world. Fred was passionate about promoting tool makers and their wares as well as supporting the hand tool...




bid.alderferauction.com


----------



## Lazyman

Some cool tools for sure. If you bid, note that there is a 20% commission. I will bet that shipping costs are not cheap either, though they do have a form to request a shipping quote on specific lots.


----------



## Notw

I didn't get that far Nathan, was way too distracted drooling over his "customized" Stanley tools


----------



## HokieKen

That's an auction that will get a man divorced...


----------



## IdleHandsWorkshop

The magical, mythical, Eclipse No. 1202


----------



## bandit571

There is a box out for delivery, today...in Holland, MI......go sit on yer front porch...


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Oh man I can't wait to get home from work!


----------



## IdleHandsWorkshop

HokieKen said:


> That's an auction that will get a man divorced...


I was looking through that stuff and as soon as I saw the Braces the wife said "NO" so loud the dogs went to their kennels and laid down like they were in trouble...


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Well dang! I must have been good this year. Got a VERY heavy box from bandit today. Inside were 5 really cool planes! Got a gauge transitional (I've always wanted one of these, I really love the mechanism it uses), an Ohio transitional, 2 eclipse smoothers (I think they are both eclipse correct me if wrong) and a super sweet little craftsman block plane. Thanks bandit!!!!! Can't wait to give them a go.


----------



## corelz125

Those brass routers are unbelievable


----------



## EricFai

Those are some good looking planes, Jerry is a lucky guy. And Bandit did not hold back, Well Done Guys.


----------



## IdleHandsWorkshop

Thedustydutchman said:


> Well dang! I must have been good this year. Got a VERY heavy box from bandit today. Inside were 5 really cool planes! Got a gauge transitional (I've always wanted one of these, I really love the mechanism it uses), an Ohio transitional, 2 eclipse smoothers (I think they are both eclipse correct me if wrong) and a super sweet little craftsman block plane. Thanks bandit!!!!! Can't wait to give them a go.
> View attachment 3857454


Well right off the bat I would say they're not Eclipse's because of the lever cap, those are seen on the Defiance 1243, 1244, 1245 BUT !!! I've seen those lever caps on two planes I was just mentioning in the other thread I have about identifying a block plane, that I have found two planes setup almost exactly like that except these had BAILEY stamped on the toe of them and were from two different sellers in completely different parts of the country.

Whether they're Defiance or Eclipse really doesn't matter, they look great !!! Loving that Gauge Transitional, I just bought another plane today for the pure and simple fact the mechanism for the iron looked weird.It's Macaller, Patented by Cornelius Macaller in 1933


----------



## bandit571

Might be related to a Shelton?


----------



## donwilwol

Secret Santa is packed and will be in Mondays outbound mail.


----------



## Mosquito

MWTCA regional meet netted me a couple planes... Another Siegley No. 2, a Stanley 140, and a Keen Kutter K76, which is the same as a Stanley 48, which I can now get rid of lol


----------



## Mosquito

Also, I should have taken some pictures of it, but didn't think of it at the time. First time I had seen (or even heard of) Sandusky metal bench planes. Really interesting design for the mechanisms. I had spent enough before I found it, to not being it home lol

Found more info on it on Don's forum, by David W. Babcock








THE SANDUSKY TOOL COMPANY A Brief History (Part 3), TimeTestedTools


Part 1 Part 2 By David W. Babcock This section will describe The Sandusky Tool Company (STC) Catalog No



www.timetestedtools.net


----------



## donwilwol

Mos, do you remember what the price on the Sandusky was? I am going to sell mine but have not researched what they bring. I would entertain an offer









Sandusky #3SC


Sandusky #3SC - Timetestedtools. Once in a while, the auction gods are with me. I’ve wanted one of these planes for a while, but the prices always scare me away



www.timetestedtools.net


----------



## Mosquito

donwilwol said:


> Mos, do you remember what the price on the Sandusky was? I am going to sell mine but have not researched what they bring. I would entertain an offer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sandusky #3SC
> 
> 
> Sandusky #3SC - Timetestedtools. Once in a while, the auction gods are with me. I’ve wanted one of these planes for a while, but the prices always scare me away
> 
> 
> 
> www.timetestedtools.net


Sent you a message. If the price was right, I'd probably be tempted, again lol


----------



## donwilwol

I can't seem to be able to find messages.


----------



## Lazyman

Private messages are called conversations in the new site. Click on your avatar and click conversations.

EDIT to add: if you hover the mouse on someones name in a forum thread, the popup box also has a message icon at the bottom.


----------



## Mosquito

For the visual


----------



## BlasterStumps

What do you do when you need the brass knob? Buy another plane with it on it. I swapped the wooden knob that I had put on this 9 1/2 some time back to the older one I found the other day. Both cut well but now I have a knob that is at least a brass one. May not be the exact one they used when Stanley started putting the hand-y grips in the sides but it works. A bit worse for wear though. Oh and you can't leave the shop without picking up a 45 to round out the deal. : ) If good for nothing else, it has some good parts on it. If I can find the sliding section and some more small parts, it would be a good one to clean up, me thinks.


----------



## IdleHandsWorkshop

This guy has quite a few gems, also quite a few high priced items..








Kettering Enterprises | eBay Stores


Selling Antique Tools (Axes, Hand Saws, Planes, Chisels, etc) and related items. Located in Annville Pa Please view our website www.ketteringenterprises.com



www.ebay.com





Really digging on that Disston display and some of the other signage


----------



## Thedustydutchman

I've bought from him on ebay. Don't remember what it was but the transaction went well


----------



## DevinT

Is David W a lumberjock? I follow him on YouTube


----------



## bandit571

Would that be David Weaver?


----------



## DevinT

The YT creator I follow: https://youtube.com/user/daw162


----------



## AMZ

Haven’t seen Dave here. He posts on UK Workshop and used to on SMC. Very knowledgable and talented about planing and blade making.


----------



## rad457

Lee Valley's seconds sale today, have a L.A. Jack with PMV-11 iron heading my way! Curious to see the difference to the SW #62?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Great choice on the LA jack Andre. I call mine, "the mother of all planes". I think you will like it, a lot.


----------



## bandit571

David Weaver can Usually be found over on WoodCentral....

There were a couple Trolls that chased him off of SMC....


----------



## Lazyman

Dang, I guess I need to check my email more than once a month this time a year so I see the sale before it is over. At least they did not have a LA smoothing planes on sale so I guess I didn't actually miss out.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Lazyman said:


> check my email more than once a month this time a year so I see the sale before it is over.


I didn't get an email for this sale?  
Probably a good thing I missed it: have only used the shooting plane bought at previous 2nds event ONCE since I bought it. 😯


----------



## corelz125

Kettering enterprise has a lot of good stuff and lists them at good prices. I've bought a few things from him. Has also on the cihitool group on Facebook


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Random Block Plane Picture: 
Cleaning up saw blade marks from edge of UHMW Polyethylene rip fence face.








Yes, Bufford a sharp WOOD plane can be used to produce full length curly shavings on plastic!


----------



## DevinT

If sharp enough, even acrylic, though the edge won’t last long in acrylic


----------



## Mosquito

I can confirm that, I used my #5-1/2 to clean up the sides of an acrylic panel for a computer case window I was making. Worked great


----------



## HokieKen

I've used a block plane to trim brass for wear strips.


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photo...busy morning..








Stanley No. 8c, working as a "Gluing Plane"..was even making "Moxon TP"








No gaps were allowed..


----------



## DevinT

Jump to 2:39


----------



## bandit571

Jointer was back at work last night..








Jointing one edge of 4 drawer fronts....then I could square the ends, and then rip the other edge parallel to this one...had to watch which way that grain was going...








4 blanks, all "4-Squared"


----------



## Mosquito

Mixed emotions of depressing and exciting when you dig out all the "needs a new home" stuff and start putting it in one place... and I'm not even done yet lol


----------



## Notw

Mosquito said:


> Mixed emotions of depressing and exciting when you dig out all the "needs a new home" stuff and start putting it in one place... and I'm not even done yet lol


I have a home


----------



## DavePolaschek

Mosquito said:


> Mixed emotions of depressing and exciting when you dig out all the "needs a new home" stuff and start putting it in one place... and I'm not even done yet lol


Have you seen how many of my projects are things to store tools in? I am *quite* familiar with having lots of stuff needing a new home.


----------



## Mosquito

DavePolaschek said:


> Have you seen how many of my projects are things to store tools in? I am *quite* familiar with having lots of stuff needing a new home.


haha same... Some of these tools were things that came out of the tool chest when I packed it full for the move, so that I could make room for the things I wanted IN the tool chest that had no other home...


----------



## BlasterStumps

Mos, I'd love to find one of those squares like you have in the middle of all those tools. I have seen a couple but they are generally messed up when you find them in the wild.


----------



## Mosquito

BlasterStumps said:


> Mos, I'd love to find one of those squares like you have in the middle of all those tools. I have seen a couple but they are generally messed up when you find them in the wild.


That's a 24" Brown & Sharpe, with its fixings (The center head I believe is a Starrett). That was my stop-gap before I got my Starrett 24" (taking nothing away from the B&S, it's fantastic, I'm just a little OCD about matching and have almost all Starrett otherwise lol). It's even got the scribe


----------



## donwilwol

22 boxes (I tried to totes and didn't like them) .


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice Don, I did something similar when I moved, but made it too big... 2 full sets of bench planes in one rolling crate is a bad idea for the back lol

Nice collection of Metallic Plane Co stuff. I recently acquired a plow, that needed some work (and parts)


----------



## donwilwol

I have an extra set of rods for that plow plane. I had a rod broke, so I had a new set made, then developed a way to fix the original.


----------



## Mosquito

donwilwol said:


> I have an extra set of rods for that plow plane. I had a rod broke, so I had a new set made, then developed a way to fix the original.


I would assume you don't have a spare depth stop? lol That and one of the fence thumb screws is what mine's missing


----------



## donwilwol

Mosquito said:


> I would assume you don't have a spare depth stop? lol That and one of the fence thumb screws is what mine's missing


I'm not even sure mine has the depth stop! I'd have to look. I know there is not extra laying around!!


----------



## Mosquito

donwilwol said:


> I'm not even sure mine has the depth stop! I'd have to look. I know there is not extra laying around!!


Haha yeah, not anticipating I'll find one any time soon


----------



## DevinT

Starrett 24-inch with all 3 attachments is worth almost $500 brand new (I own the 24-inch and 12-inch combination rule blades and the two attachments but not the compass)


----------



## Mosquito

I assume that's new prices? None of my Starrett are new


----------



## DevinT

Mosquito said:


> I assume that's new prices? None of my Starrett are new


Yes, those are new prices.

A 24-inch combination square blade itself is $200 -- without any heads, if you buy the cheap one (they come in different finishes; Satin Chrome is corrosion-proof)


----------



## IdleHandsWorkshop

Mosquito said:


> Mixed emotions of depressing and exciting when you dig out all the "needs a new home" stuff and start putting it in one place... and I'm not even done yet lol
> 
> View attachment 3858216


Yeah, it's a not stop cycle to boot, make homes for every thing and then you get that feeling of missing something and down the rabbit hole you go again.... I just got a box of about 10 planes in the other day and presently, they are sitting here next to my desk in the house because I need to.... you guessed it, make homes for them. Some of them are very nice, was really surprised at the condition of them.


----------



## IdleHandsWorkshop

Thedustydutchman said:


> Well dang! I must have been good this year. Got a VERY heavy box from bandit today. Inside were 5 really cool planes! Got a gauge transitional (I've always wanted one of these, I really love the mechanism it uses), an Ohio transitional, 2 eclipse smoothers (I think they are both eclipse correct me if wrong) and a super sweet little craftsman block plane. Thanks bandit!!!!! Can't wait to give them a go.
> View attachment 3857454


Those two Eclipse planes you've got seem to fit the Defiance profile better with that style of lever cap on them. I'm seeing a lot more of these coming and being listed as Eclipses but the ones I've researched and the ones I own, none of them have that level cap on them. It's odd that now all of a sudden I'm seeing a growing number of these setup like that. If they don't have the lateral adjuster it's most likely a Defiance IMO take a look at the Defiance 1243 and 1244


----------



## bandit571

You will also note there is NO FROG on those 2 . And, only that size lever cap, chipbreaker and iron will fit into that plane....the "lateral" adjuster was when you slide the depth adjuster wheel to one side or the other...


----------



## Thedustydutchman

I thought the same thing that they were defiance. But the irons look original to them and one of them says eclipse on the iron. Bandit is correct, they do not have frogs.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

According to time tested tools the eclipse line was sold through Montgomery Ward and were usually from the defiance line. So probably just rebranding them?

Looking at pics they are most likely rebranded defiance 1243 or 1244 as stated before by idlehands. Interesting!


----------



## IdleHandsWorkshop

Just wait, take a look at the Defiance 1213 and 1213 1/2... the whole Defiance and Eclipse lines are confusing as hell and the more and more I collect and research them, the closer I am to an aneurysm lol. 









Stanley Defiance Hand Plane & Tool Line


Stanley Defiance Hand Plane & Tool Line. In 1929, Stanley introduced the Defiance tool line. Marked by less expensive, quality tools, the line included all the customary tools, braces, drills, hammers, levels, screwdrivers, squares and planes.



www.timetestedtools.net


----------



## donwilwol

Keep in mind Montgomery Wards didn't manufacture hand planes, they bought them. In a lot of cases (Fulton from Sears being an extreme example) a store brand was bought and rebranded from a different manufacturer and likely lowest bidder, so tracking the changes may take you around the world.


----------



## bandit571

And..there were 2 different "eras" for the Defiance line of planes....these were the early models. Then Stanley brought the line back to "life" in the mid-50s...Along with a "Victor" Brand Name...was to be a step up from the Handyman line. 

Those later models all looked the same....just some have a red paint job...the Defiance didn't have any paint. Lever caps without the flat spring....Handles that were "Burgundy" all the way through, to where you could not strip them to bare wood. They would have "Defiance" stamped onto their irons. Theory being that these were to compete with the Millers Falls V-Line planes


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photo for today....








Millers Falls No. 11, Type 2....working to level between the drawer front and a drawer side....front was a tad too high..


----------



## Jeremy11

A few years ago I was finishing my first workbench, and had a lot of flattening to do on top. I wanted a longer plane, so bought a good user #8 for $120 from an old tool dealer I know.
There was an estate sale recently, the second to last day was 50% off, I picked up a #7 and #7c for $20 each, passed one on to a friend. Then the last day, everything was $1!! So I got the wooden jointer below. The make isn't quite legible. I flattened the sole, sharpened the blade, and it works great, a real pleasure to use. Now with a few other wooden planes, I could go entirely wood bodied planes... (but what's the point?).


----------



## bandit571

Sitting here, trying to blame each other for the mess on my shop floor?








Seemed to have narrowed it down to that Stanley No. 60-1/2....








That one can read the newspaper through....


----------



## rad457

Something showed up on the door step!









Comparison to the SW 62 








I believe this is the defect in the casting to make it a second? Think I can live with it


----------



## DevinT

I was hit with a rather interesting bombshell, reading Whelan. In the latest chapter I am on, he reveals that duplex rabbet planes that accommodate two irons were used by window sash makers to efficiently cut the shoulder and molding at the same time.

I always wondered why a plane like this would have two frogs, and mystery solved.




























And while some people have chosen to put handles there ...



















But, occasionally ...










You will find both blades installed ...










and Whelan points out that this optimized the stick and rabbet method of forming sash bars for windows.


----------



## DevinT

I haven't seen it yet, but Whelan also says that the duplex rabbet planes made of wood for sash makers would often skew the irons in opposite directions to aid in clearing shavings


----------



## Johnny7

DevinT said:


> I always wondered why a plane like this would have two frogs, and mystery solved.


I don't believe that your explanation is correct -- the Stanley 78 (a duplex rabbet and fillester) has a 2nd, forward frog to allow for bullnose work.
All of the true Rabbet & Stick planes I have seen or own, have the two irons (with different profiles) side by side.


----------



## DevinT

Johnny7 said:


> I don't believe that your explanation is correct -- the Stanley 78 (a duplex rabbet and fillester) has a 2nd, forward frog to allow for bullnose work.
> All of the true Rabbet & Stick planes I have seen or own, have the two irons (with different profiles) side by side.


Thank you for the clarification. I will re-read the passage as I clearly misinterpreted it.

Whelan did not specify "side by side" and so my mind put them in-line.

Can you take a picture of some of your Rabbet & Stick planes to help bolster my mental image of what Whelan is talking about?


----------



## Mosquito

This is a fair example


----------



## DevinT

Mosquito said:


> This is a fair example
> 
> View attachment 3859292


Thanks!


----------



## Johnny7

DevinT said:


> Thanks!


Thanks Mos -- my wooden planes are all packed away at another location.

Devin - HERE is St. Roy actually using one in an episode of The Woodwright's Shop"


----------



## theoldfart

Something new to me, a door check plane


----------



## rad457

Must be an age thing ordered a parts plane for the lever clamp, saw the broke rear handle, made a new one plus a matching front knob!(found some maple cut offs) checked the bottom for flat, even put some work into the blade that I had doubts about. Got it to take some decent shavings then when putting it on the shelf saw the 409 that needed the lever clamp?


----------



## DavePolaschek

Hmm. Seems like it oughta be time for another Secret Santa reveal pretty soon. I hope.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, but I don't think Kenny has opened what I sent him... I think he's too scared lol


----------



## HokieKen

I opened it but that’s as far as it’s gotten. I’ll be doing any cleanup and fettling over the next couple weeks then reboxing and sending to its forever home😉


----------



## Lazyman

Cool, Kenny. I am looking forward to it.


----------



## Jeremy11

Here's a great condition jack plane by Metallic Plane Co, Auburn NY, by Palmer and Storkes.
I just picked it up for $40 at a local antique store, that usually wants way too much for planes.
This company was apparently only in existence from 1867 thru the 1870's.
The iron only adjusts manually with the set screw.
The throat is adjustable on the bottom, by turning the front knob to loosen and tighten it.
There's a spot behind the throat on the bottom where somebody had presumably filled in a chip with solder, but then left it bumped out. I scrapped it flush. Makes you wonder why they went to the trouble of filling the chip, only to not flatten it...

All it needs is a good sharpening, and I'll make a few shavings.

















Also, not quite a plane, but here's a John Bull Hearnshaw Bros Sheffield 1.5" firmer chisel.
I had to put on a new handle, and still need to sharpen it. The new handle is honey locust heartwood. I'd like to build a small timber frame goat shed/barn so this is just the right tool for the job.


----------



## RWE

That is sad. I swapped some Osage Orange or Persimmon (can't remember which at this point) for a #40 that I have made great use of. Mike made the iron for the 40 (Stanley Scrub Plane) and had put lumber on it as well. Great plane. I was thinking during the exchange of items, what a very nice fellow. He seemed to be a class act. I had commented on here about how hard it is to find anything in the wild other than Jacks and Smoother and such and how I had always wanted a #40. Sorry to hear the bad news.


----------



## DavePolaschek

No Secret Santa updates? I hope everyone’s planning to get stuff sent fairly soon.


----------



## HokieKen

I'll turn my attention to my Santa bag as soon as I get my knife swap package shipped out. I plan to get it shipped out next week.


----------



## RWE

I had a work thing come up that has kept me waylaid for almost a month. I received my Santa plane and will post about it soon. i shipped my plane and the recipient should have it mid-week.


----------



## Mosquito

Anyone remember that table full of tools? Between Covid, RSV, and now the Flu in the past 6 weeks (it's been great...), that's been a little slow... I managed to get about 2/3 of the functional planes photographed, edited, and posted; still working on the rest. If anyone sees anything they're interested in, shoot me a message with any questions, inquiries, or offers. I'll probably start putting some in the classifieds, and elsehere this week, depending on how the flu situation shakes out. 



http://mosquitomediaserver.com/projectLogImages/sell/


And no, I won't ship the planer, sander, or lathe


----------



## HokieKen

I’ll give you $40 for the planer, sander and lathe including shipping.


----------



## Mosquito

I wish I was in a positron to do that lol. Truthfully, $40 isn't too far off of the max I expect out of the lathe, which almost makes me want to keep the motor and Jacob's chuck and give away the lathe lol

As for the other two, fat chance lol


----------



## HokieKen

Okay. You drive a hard bargain but if you ship me the lathe and $40 you can keep the motor and Jacobs chuck. You’re welcome.


----------



## bandit571

A "ME DAY"...as 50 years ago today was my last day of being Single....went out Rust Hunting, today...turned a LOT of "gold plated" tools down......$125 for a Stanley No. 4-1/2? $45 for a Stanley No. 46 that was only the main stock, the sliding stock, and 2 rods....everything else was missing, including the "horn" on the tote....

So..bought a pair of planes...spent about $45 and change...








Both SEEM to be Millers Falls...a No. 9...with a LOW knob? and a No. 8 with a Sargent No. 400 lever cap, and a black frog? Hmmm...may switch the front knobs around. 

The No. 9 has a patent number under the lever cap. It is missing the bolt between the iron and chipbreaker..

This MIGHT take a while...


----------



## AMZ

bandit571 said:


> A "ME DAY"...as 50 years ago today was my last day of being Single....went out Rust Hunting, today...turned a LOT of "gold plated" tools down......$125 for a Stanley No. 4-1/2? $45 for a Stanley No. 46 that was only the main stock, the sliding stock, and 2 rods....everything else was missing, including the "horn" on the tote....
> 
> So..bought a pair of planes...spent about $45 and change...
> View attachment 3860816
> 
> Both SEEM to be Millers Falls...a No. 9...with a LOW knob? and a No. 8 with a Sargent No. 400 lever cap, and a black frog? Hmmm...may switch the front knobs around.
> 
> The No. 9 has a patent number under the lever cap. It is missing the bolt between the iron and chipbreaker..
> 
> This MIGHT take a while...


I love those MF with the two piece lever cap! Equal to any Bedrock!


----------



## ac0rn

bandit571 said:
A "ME DAY"...as 50 years ago today was my last day of being Single

For us today is 40 years and 8 months. I am thankful for every day, and wouldn't enjoy being single. Make sure to treat her to something special, and unexpected.


----------



## HokieKen

Happy Anniversary Bandit! And good choice on your gift ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Have cleaned all the rust off of that smaller plane.....Iron is stamped as a Fulton....there is no frog adjust bolt, was never drilled/tapped for one. Depth adjuster wheel is a Steel version of the Type 2. Tote has flat sides. Bolts for the tote and knob are 2 piece, with a brass cap on a steel shaft. "Made in USA" is between the frog and the tote. Base for the knob is the normal Millers Falls style. Stamped into the left side of the base casting is ..

FULTON No. 3709
BB

Might be a "Keeper"?


Will work on the No. 9 tomorrow....


----------



## bandit571

And..the afters..








Fulton No. 3709..aka Millers Falls No.8 








and the front end..








Has Fulton Made in USA stamped on the iron...
Next ( stop drooling, Kenny)








Need to refresh the paint...on the underside is..








A Patent date/no.
The Millers Falls Type 2 No.9 now has a proper front knob..








could use a bit of touch up on the finish...


----------



## HokieKen

Drool worthy pair Bandit😁


----------



## AMZ

Nice Bandit! Wonder why more guys (and gals) don’t search out MF planes (and other tools)?


----------



## rad457

"Someone" drove the prices up!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ho, Ho, Ho! Santa left the Cabinetshop this AM with a small box for someone special out there in Lumberjock Land!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The Epic Thread... I've killed it...


----------



## corelz125

It wasn't you Smitty. The sun might be setting here but it's rising some place else.


----------



## WillliamMSP

AMZ said:


> Nice Bandit! Wonder why more guys (and gals) don’t search out MF planes (and other tools)?


MFs are really the only vintage planes that I have any interest in buying, though I haven't been actively seeking them out any more. If I tripped over one that was reasonably priced, in decent shape, and it was a size that I didn't already have, I'd be tempted. As it is, though, their prices seem to have gone up, even relative to the increases everything else has seen. 

Besides the planes, the hand drills were a hot item a handful of years ago.


----------



## Notw

corelz125 said:


> It wasn't you Smitty. The sun might be setting here but it's rising some place else.


Where is it rising?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Well, let me say this.

I have plowed more hours into this website than I could count at this point. Seriously. Hundreds of blogs with, in some cases, dozens of installments for each. And this redesign tossed them all to the side. No contrition, just a "it's the best we could do" response. This place meant more to me, at times, that it has ever meant to the company that owns it. So be it, I'm over it.

Handplane content:


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah Verticalscope kinda did to hundreds of user's blog posts what photobucket did with photos a few years ago. And we all know how that worked out for photobucket...


----------



## HokieKen

Santa Smitty made Kenny a very happy boy!!


----------



## bandit571

Might be a little tough to light THAT cigar....


----------



## DavePolaschek

Ooh! You must have been a Very Good Boy, Kenny!


----------



## corelz125

That's some gift you got there Kenny.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Glad you like it! 

Needs some TLC that’s best coming from it’s new keeper. But most certainly an un-mucked-with example.


----------



## HokieKen

It’ll probably get some rust removed but it’s in good shape and I peeled some shavings off a tree branch as soon as I opened it 😎. You couldn’t have chosen any better!

And my granddaughter had a good deal of fun with the packing shavings😁. She was far more impressed with them than with the tool🤣


----------



## AMZ

MF shave?


----------



## HokieKen

Yes indeed AMZ 😁


----------



## HokieKen

I just dropped my Secret Santa package off at the PO. Somebody will have a new toy later this week


----------



## TedT2

Secret Santa gift is outbound….should arrive at its destination the end of this week


----------



## DavePolaschek

I’ve been trying to keep track of them, but I’m pretty sure I’ve missed a few. I’ll try to catch up next week, which may involve emailing people to ask if they've received their plane yet.


----------



## corelz125

Dropped mine package off last night. I thought I was the last


----------



## TedT2

Mine is in the gentle hands of USPS


----------



## bandit571

Currently trying to build a new case..








As the old case, I always had to tear this #78 down....new case I will not have to...








Have a knot to work around....hoping it lands in a gap..








In-between a couple "fingers".

Random Plane Photo #2








Millers Falls No. 11, Type 2....jointing Ash boards...


----------



## RyanGi

Mine lives in a sock. I feel it deserves better than that. I need to make a box for it…put it on the list!


----------



## AMZ

bandit571 said:


> Currently trying to build a new case..
> View attachment 3862045
> 
> As the old case, I always had to tear this #78 down....new case I will not have to...
> View attachment 3862046
> 
> Have a knot to work around....hoping it lands in a gap..
> View attachment 3862049
> 
> In-between a couple "fingers".
> 
> Random Plane Photo #2
> View attachment 3862050
> 
> Millers Falls No. 11, Type 2....jointing Ash boards...


Someone must be feeling better? Hope so! We need projects!


----------



## bandit571

Working on it...








One corner at a time..


----------



## DavePolaschek

We’re getting down to the home stretch on the Secret Santa, and there are a few members I haven’t heard from since the changeover here. If y’all are still around, shoot me a PM or an email so I know I don’t have to hunt you down or send out packages myself to make sure nobody gets stiffed. Thanks!


----------



## theoldfart

Package going out today.


----------



## TedT2

Tracking shows that mine was delivered last night


----------



## theoldfart

And shipped.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I double-checked the list, and there’s one guy who hasn’t shipped, or if he did, I missed marking it on the list (I sent an email). Everything else is either in-flight or received. So that’s kinda cool.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Just got confirmation that all the planes have either been received or are in transit. Looking forward to seeing the rest of the reveals!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Couldn't find this thread using the seach, then I remembered that the spelling in the title was "Handplanes" not hand planes. 
Anyway, I made a handyman's tool tote the other day and just got around to doing a bit of a fit out on it today so that there would be places for the smaller tools. I didn't want to have to unload the tote to find a pencil etc. Also wasn't fond of the idea of throwing chisels or the sharp little marking pick in with all the rest so I made spots for them as well. 
One lone block plane sits down in the bottom now but, I might have to build a little walled off area to set it in. That would help keep stuff off of it. 
I'm sure the tote will be a work in progress for a while. Might see what I would need to do to carry a No 5 also. Didn't put one in there so far because of the extra weight.


----------



## AMZ

Very nice job!


----------



## donwilwol

Sometimes the building of the organization is as much of more enjoyable than the actual usage.

And ongoing it must be!


----------



## donwilwol

With all the moving, new shop setup and all that's going on I'm a bit behind but I do love this new smoother Santa dropped off. I haven't even had a chance to take it for a spin, but I know it's going to be one of my users. It probably won't push the Sargent VBM 410 off the bench, but they may become partners.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I forgot to check for sure in the shop earlier, but I think there’s only one or two Secret Santa planes still in transit. But there’s at least one that I’m pretty sure arrived that never got shown off. But I may be misremembering the status sheet.


----------



## bandit571

I'm still waiting by my mail box......


----------



## DavePolaschek

bandit571 said:


> I'm still waiting by my mail box......


Yep. It’s on its way, though.


----------



## bandit571

The Van Camps have landed! From Kansas City, MO.....And a big thank you goes out to Josh Sternadel!!!

Photos to follow!


----------



## theoldfart

Looking forward to the pics Bandit.
I’ll post pics of my goodies from Kenny(with an assist from Mos) this afternoon.


----------



## Mosquito

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...


----------



## theoldfart

So the seasonal portly provider of presents posted these paradigms of proficient woodworking!

thanks to our VT Hokie fanboy I have a start on building on H&R’s. They are a number 8 set. Kens partner in crime, Mos, tuned them up and made new wedges.










The MF bench stop was an additional goody. It will be installed in the next few weeks.

thanks Kenny, and thanks Mos!


----------



## bandit571

Secret Santa Planes..








Details..









And..








Both irons are stamped as Van Camp...








Under the hood of the #4, and...








The Block Plane....nice wide bed, too...

Again, a very big THANK YOU!


----------



## DavePolaschek

And I believe that concludes our broadcast day for the Secret Santa Swap.


----------



## TedT2

Here is my Secret Santa gift from Kevin(old fart). It is a very nice Union transitional with a wicked sharp iron. I am looking forward to using it at some point. Thank you very much sir!


----------



## theoldfart

Glad it arrived ok Ted. I’m pretty sure it’s all original. The sole will need a little attention though. Let me know how it goes when you give it a test run.


----------



## Mosquito

theoldfart said:


> Kens partner in crime, Mos, tuned them up and made new wedges.
> 
> thanks Kenny, and thanks Mos!


You're welcome for my contribution. Those wedges were made from quarter sawn sycamore that I got as bonus on a previous swap as well.


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, they fit perfectly and throw the shavings well. No cloggin. Ya done good!


----------



## Mosquito

Good to hear. Tuning wedges took longer than matching and sharpening the irons lol


----------



## HokieKen

Nah, I didn't hardly spend any time at all on those wedges.


----------



## theoldfart

Either way I win! 😎


----------



## sansoo22

I received a Union No 411 compass plane from TedT2. Ted wrote me a nice Christmas card and hoped he had found something I don't already own. Well Ted I have good news and bad news on that. The bad news is I already have one of these. The good news is mine has a bent front knob and no rear handle but it does have nicer metal parts with very little pitting. So I am very pleased to have this and will use the best parts from both to make one hell of a nicely restored plane. Thank you very much Ted. I am currently working on a Stanley 113 so maybe I will do the 411 at the same time and test them head to head. The better cutter lives in the till and the loser lives on the collector shelf.


----------



## sansoo22

Bandit - I am very pleased to see that you like the planes. The tote on the No 4 is one of the prettiest I have ever seen on any plane. That sort of tiger strip look to the grain is stunning. I've had both of those planes for about 2 years. Picked them up for next to nothing at an auction and kept telling myself I was going to restore them and put them on my collection shelf. 

Then I drew your name for Secret Santa and was thinking..."what the hell do you get Bandit...he already has a lot of planes". Then I remembered the Van Camps and since those are the only ones I have ever seen in person I thought to myself..."he may have a lot of planes but I bet he doesn't have any Van Camps". 

I'm pretty positive the No 4 is made by Stanley. It looks spot on to the type 8 I have here with the exception of the twisted lateral that Stanley often put on planes they made for other companies. I haven't a clue who made the block plane. I am unfamiliar with that style of locking mechanism for the lever cap.


----------



## TedT2

sansoo22 said:


> I received a Union No 411 compass plane from TedT2. Ted wrote me a nice Christmas card and hoped he had found something I don't already own. Well Ted I have good news and bad news on that. The bad news is I already have one of these. The good news is mine has a bent front knob and no rear handle but it does have nicer metal parts with very little pitting. So I am very pleased to have this and will use the best parts from both to make one hell of a nicely restored plane. Thank you very much Ted. I am currently working on a Stanley 113 so maybe I will do the 411 at the same time and test them head to head. The better cutter lives in the till and the loser lives on the collector shelf.
> View attachment 3862943
> 
> View attachment 3862944


I am glad that you will find use for it. I tried hard to find something but I’m not surprised you had one. I will look forward to some day seeing the finished product.


----------



## sansoo22

As soon as I saw the Union knob and rear handle I was super excited. I remember showing the wife the plane you gave me and the one I already had and being like "I can take this part and this part from this one...and these parts from this one and make an awesome plane". And of course she was like "that's nice dear...you go have fun with your planes". Which I took literally and then got scolded for coming to dinner covered in black metal dust.


----------



## Mosquito

You came back in for dinner? 😁


----------



## sansoo22

Mosquito said:


> You came back in for dinner? 😁


She plays tennis most evenings so if she is home cooking dinner of course I come back in. Which led to a conversation of how I eat when she isn't home. 
wife: "You're covered in filth"
me: "I washed my hands"
wife: "but your arms and clothes are filthy"
me: "I'm not eating off either"
wife: no words...just a long disappointing stare

So now we have a new rule...i say we but really its her rule for me...if she's home cooking dinner I can go play in the shop afterwards.


----------



## Mosquito

I end up doing the lions share of the cooking and clean up, and don't get out to the shop until after the little one is asleep anyway, so I'm not one to talk about skipping dinner for shop time lol


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photo to start the day..








It has been a little busy, lately....Millers Falls No. 11, Type 2


----------



## bandit571

Another Random Plane Photo? This one is from the Plane Swap..








Right out of the box, no less. Van Camp No. 4......was also put to work today as a small jointer..








As I needed all 4 boards to match...


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photos for today...something a bit different..








A time for the short rods, and..








Sometimes you need to get out the long rods...








When ya need to plough that extra groove..









As not all the grooves will be this close to an edge...Stanley No. 45, Type 20....1/4" wide straight cutter.


----------



## Bertha

Bump
Did this thread get killed?


----------



## bandit571

Not sure...








Part of a Tool Chest Tour...








Some are trying to hide, though...








Like those 2 on the bottom of the door frame...
Others are hiding in a box they can call their own...








Along with the ones IN the Plane Til Cabinet...


----------



## KentInOttawa

Bertha said:


> Bump
> Did this thread get killed?


Not quite. Happy New Year Bertha.


----------



## Bertha

Lol, thanks! I've been away on medical leave, but I haven't stopped plane hoarding. I'll get some images up, hopefully very soon! I hope everyone is well!


----------



## Bertha

I see Bandit is running out of room! I've really missed reading his posts.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Bertha said:


> Did this thread get killed?
> 
> 
> KentInOttawa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite.
Click to expand...

+1



Bertha said:


> I've been away on medical leave,


Welcome back! You probably missed the drama of the forum software change while you were away?
Might want to grab some popcorn and read this thread:
*








Community Feedback: New Forum Software Is Live!


We are excited to announce that we are live on our new forum platform! It’s been a long time coming. Let’s face it. Sometimes older forum technology lags behind other parts of the internet. Although seeing the same format for a long time is comforting, the member experience shouldn’t include...




www.lumberjocks.com




*


----------

