# Shop Made Screwdriver Swap - LJSwap 2016



## Mosquito

Taking the next highest category that narrowly lost out in the last round of voting for Shop Made Swaps, we'll be doing a "Shop Made Screwdriver Swap". Whether you make a set of different sizes, a single driver, or a combination driver is up to you!



*A Note:*This is in no way officially sponsored by, run by, or otherwise tied to "LumberJocks" as a company or organization, or to any of the parent or sibling holdings thereof. It is simply run by those of us who participate on LumberJocks.



*Basic Details*

If you have not participated in one of our LumberJocks Shop Made Swaps before, Welcome! It's relatively simple; each participant makes their swap item(s) and will get a name and address via PM or e-mail a few weeks before the shipping deadline to where they will be mailing their entry. Postage is to be paid by the sender. And entries will be exchanged in a round robin way as much as possible.



*Rules for this swap*

- Teaser shots are allowed, but please do not post full in-progress or finished pictures until after the reveal date.
- A progress pic (sent to me) will be required one (1) month before the reveal date. We want to make sure everyone is working on their item so no one gets disappointed.



*What is Allowed*

Shop made screwdrivers. Whether you make a set of screwdrivers, a screwdriver for a special purpose, or a combination screwdriver, is up to you. The important part is that you've made it in your shop for a fellow JumberJock. You can use raw stock, salvaged shanks, or re-handle existing screwdrivers, whatever works for you.



*How to sign up*

Post below letting me know that you are in and then send an e-mail (--email removed--) or PM containing the following information:
- Real Name
- Email address
- Shipping Address, including country

I'll confirm your entry into the swap by email.



*Important dates*

In order to participate, you need to adhere to the dates below. Failure to do so will result in you getting dropped from the swap. If you can't make one of the dates, please make sure to notify me via PM *immediately* so that I can update my swap spreadsheet.

- *Register for swap*: March 21st, 2016 (*CLOSED*)
- *Progress picture*: May 2nd, 2016 (*CLOSED*)
- *Ship date*: May 18th, 2016 (*CLOSED*)
- *Reveal date*: June 1st, 2016. (*CLOSED*)
No final pics until this date. Let the recipient post a pic or two before the sender posts their "formal" pics and project entry.



*Swap Participants: *

bobasaurus
jmartel
waho6o9
Ripthorn
AgentTwitch
HokieKen
RichCMD
Combo Prof
jeffswildwood
Don W
bearkatwood
Babieca
Rick M.
clieb91
Mosquito
sepeck
TodJB
Mark Kornell
ShaneA
WoodWorkJosh
fatandy2003
terryr
MNClone
7Footer
bmwaits


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## sepeck

I'm in.


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## Mosquito

Some info that we had started talking about in our last LumberJocks Art Swap:



> I am a little uncertain about the screw driver thing. It brings to mind things like needing a metal lathe and messing around with heat treating metal. That said, I m thinking it wouldn t be suggested here if that was the case, so I might just need more information about it. Any "how to" advice that might help me decide if this is something I am comfortable I could do? Thanks.
> 
> - RichCMD





> I certainly don t plan on messing around with metal at this point. Not set up for it. Some day, but I have a list of shop and honey do projects that are somewhat higher priority.
> 
> http://lumberjocks.com/projects/109040
> The simplest, is buying a cheap screwdriver and tearing off all the plastic. My project was one of my first lathe projects but there are YouTube videos on other approaches. I am definitely not doing a 4 in 1 this time if I make one.
> 
> - sepeck





> I agree with sepeck, and I was also thinking that those long hex shank driver bits could probably be used somehow as well. Certainly making your own shanks is an option if you re equipped for it, but I wouldn t expect too many of us to be…
> 
> Lee Valley used to sell just screwdriver shanks for making your own, but looks like they haven t been restocking them. I ve found Xcelite blades as well (http://www.apexhandtools.com/brands/XCELITE/index.cfm?model_list=1&att_id=XCE001&att1=Screwdrivers&att2=Series%2099?reg;)
> 
> - Mosquito





> One suggestion, as someone who has gone the route of rehandling inexpensive (cheap!) screwdrivers-don t do it. It s not worth the effort because you end up with a crappy screwdriver with a nice handle. I m not saying to buy a Snap-on screwdriver, just find a good quality new, used, or vintage, preferably American made of actual tool steel. Couple more tips learned the hard way (by failure)-epoxy doesn t stick as well to chrome so rough up the handle, and use hard and tough wood for the handle or they will fail under use. Okay, stepping down from my soap box.
> 
> I was thinking of sending vodka and citrus. ...
> 
> - XquietflyX
> 
> There s my swap partner.
> 
> - Rick M.





> Tons of driver making kits online, too.
> 
> https://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKSDK4.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No lathe needed. My fav drivers have Hexagonal handles!
> 
> - terryR





> http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=64983&cat=1,43411,43417&ap=2
> 
> - waho6o9


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## terryR

Thanks for setting this up, Mos!
Count me in.


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## Mosquito

Thanks Sepeck and Terry, both should have confirmation e-mails!


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## bobasaurus

I'm in, Mos. Thanks for setting this up.


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## Mosquito

> I m in, Mos. Thanks for setting this up.
> 
> - bobasaurus


Thanks! Your confirmation e-mail has been sent


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## bobasaurus

I've turned handles for magnetic hex bit holders and given them as gifts… they seem to be well-liked. Here are a couple from my Christmas batch:










I used 4" Wiha magnetic bit holders like this: http://www.kctoolco.com/wiha-1-4-inch-bit-holder-magnetic-4-0-inch-p/171436.htm

Oddly, I can't find them on Wiha's official site anymore… they may be discontinued even though I just bought them a couple months ago.


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## Mosquito

^ That's a good idea too, those types of bit holders can be found all over in hardware stores


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## bondogaposis

I'm in on this one.


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## jmartel

Sign me up for now. Now that I have a lathe, I don't have a good excuse to not participate.


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## waho6o9

I'm game for this one as well, thanks Mos!


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## TheFridge

I'm in


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## Ripthorn

Sign me up! I've got a few ideas kicking around that I want to try. And I've got a new milling machine that awaits to do my bidding, MWAHAHA!


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## jmartel

Here's some projects that I found that I liked. Good reference maybe for other people. Something different in all of them.


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## jmartel

> Sign me up! I ve got a few ideas kicking around that I want to try. And I ve got a new milling machine that awaits to do my bidding, MWAHAHA!
> 
> - Ripthorn


Infill screwdriver?


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## Mosquito

> Infill screwdriver?
> 
> - jmartel


Aren't they called "Perfect Handle" lol


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## Ripthorn

> Sign me up! I ve got a few ideas kicking around that I want to try. And I ve got a new milling machine that awaits to do my bidding, MWAHAHA!
> 
> - Ripthorn
> 
> Infill screwdriver?
> 
> - jmartel


You know it! Actually, I have at least 4 different directions I would like to go. I'll pick one to start and see how it goes. Toying with the idea of forging my own shank, then machining and heat treating. We'll have to see, that is pretty hard core, even by my standards…


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## sepeck

> Sign me up! I ve got a few ideas kicking around that I want to try. And I ve got a new milling machine that awaits to do my bidding, MWAHAHA!
> 
> - Ripthorn
> 
> Infill screwdriver?
> 
> - jmartel
> 
> You know it! Actually, I have at least 4 different directions I would like to go. I ll pick one to start and see how it goes. Toying with the idea of forging my own shank, then machining and heat treating. We ll have to see, that is pretty hard core, even by my standards…
> 
> - Ripthorn


So, no way was an 'infill' style in my thoughts, but I have 3-4 ways I am torn between as well. Still setting up the shop but at least now I am finding things and that part will be far less frustrating! Oh hey, 3 of those 4 other links are already in my favorites. Now I seem to have all 4. /grumble, stupid list getting longer.


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## ToddJB

Count me in!


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## ToddJB

I've got some used jointer knives that will fit the ticket for this swap.


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## jmartel

Good call. I've got some planer knives that need swapped out, so that will give me some HSS stock.


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## ToddJB

http://www.amazon.com/0-6mm-Spare-Watchmaker-Screwdriver-Blades/dp/B008XTETEI

http://www.commandoproducts.com/individualbladesforcommandoscrewdriverhandles.aspx

http://apexbits.com/apex-1-4-sel-o-fit-power-drive-bits.aspx

http://apexbits.com/apex-slotted-screwdriver-bits-2.aspx

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pc-12-EXTRA-LONG-SCREW-DRIVER-POWER-BIT-SET-DRILL-/6042221761?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

http://www.tecratools.com/pages/service/blades.html

Maybe some blade only options.


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## sepeck

A break off the handle option to add
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-8-pc-screwdriver-set/p-00947136000P?prdNo=4&blockNo=4&blockType=G4


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## terryR

Maybe I need to retract the statement about tips NOT being heat treated.
Looks like some manufacturers brag about their tips being hardened.


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## AgentTwitch

Count me in, PM sent!


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## Ripthorn

Terry, a hardened tip is good. The trick is getting it tempered right. You don't want it plane-iron-hard. Getting it around the spring temper or slightly harder is good. My plan is to shoot for about spring temper. Especially with flat bladed screwdrivers, it allows one to burnish a slight hook which will hold the fastener better and helps reduce damage to the screw slot.


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## ToddJB

How do you suppose they make the slot for these?










Photo via Combo Prof


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## Mosquito

I was curious on that as well…


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## ToddJB

The only plan I have in my head is getting a super small drill bit and drilling out the mortise then using a scrap piece heating it up and burning/hammering it in.


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## jmartel

Make two halves with the stopped dados cut in, then glue up and turn on the lathe? With a good glue joint you probably wouldn't be able to see.


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## ToddJB

That would definitely work, but I'd bet that's not how they did it back in the day.


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## WoodWorkJosh

I'm in also, but I don't have a lathe so I'll figure something else out. I hope my less than perfect skills aren't too terrible for whoever gets mine.


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## Mosquito

I agree Todd.

No worries Josh, the point of these swaps is to try something new and do the best you can 
I also don't have a lathe, so will be in the same boat there


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## ToddJB

Seems like a good excuse to buy a lathe


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## Mosquito

think I can pull off a treadle lathe build AND swap entry in that time frame? lol


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## WoodWorkJosh

LOL, I don't know if I can get the wife on board for a lathe just yet.


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## ToddJB

Think you'd be a fool not to try.


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## sepeck

> I m in also, but I don t have a lathe so I ll figure something else out. I hope my less than perfect skills aren t too terrible for whoever gets mine.
> 
> - WoodWorkJosh


This is my 3rd I think and if mine are good enough, so are yours. If you have a drill press there are various YouTube videos on turning handles and knobs with them as well. Otherwise, round is not the only handle profile. Have fun!


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## WoodWorkJosh

Thanks guys, this does seem like a fun and interesting project. I'm looking forward to it.


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## jmartel

> That would definitely work, but I d bet that s not how they did it back in the day.
> 
> - ToddJB


Probably not. But I figured it was worth a suggestion if anyone wanted to do it that way for the swap.


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## SASmith

I have been emailing Daniel at grace. It seems he is willing to put together some shank only sets. No prices given yet. He said it would be cheaper with a group buy. Any interest out there? Any recommended sizes? I am thinking 1,2,and 3 in phillips and 6,8,and 10 in slots.
Are most people doing single drivers or sets?


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## jeffswildwood

I'm riding the fence right now. After having to drop out of the last swap I don't want to commit and leave again. I think I am going to experiment a bit before I join. I am interested in the grace bit set if offered. Like others, I have no lathe but I do have a band saw and router table  and ideas. Keeping my eye on the cut off date!


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## 7Footer

I'm down for this swap, in for sure! Will send an email to the lj's swap email.

Thanks for heading this up Mos, let me know if you'd like help with anything!

Holy crap how have I never seen that screwdriver by Bob, that is gorgeous!

I'm interested in those sets Scott.


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## sepeck

> I have been emailing Daniel at grace. It seems he is willing to put together some shank only sets. No prices given yet. He said it would be cheaper with a group buy. Any interest out there? Any recommended sizes? I am thinking 1,2,and 3 in phillips and 6,8,and 10 in slots.
> Are most people doing single drivers or sets?
> 
> - SASmith


I hadn't decided yet, but I'd probably go for more then one set if Grace was willing to sell some shanks. I am very flexible in that regard. (Steven has to go home and look at what those sizes actually look like.)


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## JayT

I'd like to join, but need to think about schedule before committing. I might be in for some shanks from Grace, as well. I'd lean toward skipping the #3 Phillips and going with a stubby straight or additional length of #2 Phillips instead. I almost never use a #3.

For those without a lathe, here's a little inspiration, courtesy of BRK


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## ToddJB

Scott, a group of us had reached out to Grace mid-last year and he seemed up to do it then, but then dropped off communication with us - which was odd.


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## SASmith

Tood, April of last year was my first email with him. He seems willing now.


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## Mosquito

I was thinking either a set of some sort, or a combination, haven't decided yet. Depending on price, might be interested in Grace shanks


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## ToddJB

Even if I don't use them for this swap, I'd be up for a set for future items.


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## SASmith

Todd, mos, anyone, what sizes would you like in a set?


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## ToddJB

For general woodworking I'd say a P1, and P2 and then 3 common size slots. are 6,8,10 millimeters?


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## Mosquito

1, 2, 3 and 6, 8, 10 seems fine to me


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## SignWave

This sounds like fun. I'm in.


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## jeffswildwood

So I got a bit excited and had to try one. Quick and dirty. I beat a handle off an old stripped phillips, cut a 3/4 X 3/4 piece of scrap walnut and gave it a try. This is what I learned. The hole MUST be straight. Even if it is, the flairs may come off sides, more to one side then the other. Don't drive the shank in with a hammer, it flattens the tip. (I should have known that). I used a block plane on the handle and got a nice rounded feel. Taper hard to control. But this gave me a nice "learning curve" even if it did come out looking more like a "prison shank" then a screwdriver. LOL I wish I could post a pic, School of blind efforts!

Still on the fence but SO tempted!


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## sepeck

Some random YouTube videos. slightly different approaches/shapes.

short one 



standard 4 in 1 



multi-axis : 



no lathe- drill press! 



Jack Houweling (homemade lathe), 



and Clickspring because… BECAUSE 



 (more seriously, he has some interesting aspects covered and if I got lost in his video's you all need to have that opportunity as well.)


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## MNclone

Mos, put me down as a maybe for now. I've got a lot to get done around the house this spring and I never received anything on the plane swap last year so I'm a bit gunshy this time around.


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## Mosquito

Sure thing MNClone, I know how that goes (both)

So far I've got 
TheFridge, Ripthorn, 7Footer, and SignWave who have said they're in, but haven't sent details yet. Don't forget to get me a PM or e-mail (lumberjocks.swaps at gmail.com) with the required info


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## Mosquito

Also, do we have any participants who might be willing to do an international shipment? It looks like a small flat rate USPS box is around $34 international, and something 2lbs 12"x4"x4" is around $24 based on some looking I did to get an idea… I know it seems like a lot for shipping screwdrivers, but that is still less than I paid to ship my Art Swap item


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## TheFridge

Sure


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## sepeck

Same answer last time Mos. I'll ship to wherever my swap partner is.


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## Mosquito

Would that include Europe?


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## jmartel

I'll ship international for this swap.


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## sepeck

Wherever, so yes. I figure they may get some random guy in the states so it's only fair to ship wherever to. It's like the lotto, some places will be cheaper to ship to. Who knows, maybe your guy moved and you have to wait a week while stuff is forwarded….


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## Mosquito

haha yeah… the last plane swap the one I got ended up being hand delivered because it wasn't far from where they worked! Doesn't get much cheaper than that :-D


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## TheFridge

Put me as an international alternate. Depends on the cash I have at the time really.


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## Iguana

Sign me up. Every swap needs a token Canadian


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## Iguana

> I have been emailing Daniel at grace. It seems he is willing to put together some shank only sets. No prices given yet. He said it would be cheaper with a group buy. Any interest out there? Any recommended sizes? I am thinking 1,2,and 3 in phillips and 6,8,and 10 in slots.
> Are most people doing single drivers or sets?
> 
> - SASmith


I'm interested. Robertson drive!


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## HokieKen

I've been waiting for a swap I was comfortable I could live up to expectations in. I think I can keep up on this one! Sign me up Mos!


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## AgentTwitch

I use a #2 on Robertson drive a lot


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## RichCMD

i'm in. I've read the responses, and I've already ordered a few different things. I'll decide which I'll use for the swap later; the others will eventually found their way into my own toolbox. The requisite email has already been sent.

Mosquito, thanks for volunteering to run this.


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## Mosquito

I believe I've added all who have responded. If you haven't gotten an e-mail from LumberJocks.Swaps at Gmail.com, let me know!


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## bearkatwood

Count me in, this sounds fun.
I already have the hardware for it, I had planned to make one in a week or two anywho! 
Let's do this thing!


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## DLK

Has a source for slotted screwdriver blades been found?

Put me down as a maybe. (A definite if I can find some blades to use.)


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## ErikF

I want to play- sign me up.


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## clieb91

Be cool to get involved in another swap. So count me in.

CtL


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## Mosquito

I should have confirmation e-mails out to everyone who's opted in so far. Let me know if you haven't. Also, the list of participants and pending participants should be up to date in the original post as well (if your name isn't there and you think it should be let me know).


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## DLK

Up grade me from pending to confirmed. "I got my first screwdriver made!" It was very fun.


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## DLK

It was so nice I said it twice.


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## fatandy2003

I'm a maybe. Lots going on. If I'm in, I'll send an email before the registration deadline…


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## Babieca

I'm in!

I've had a screw driver sitting next to my lathe for a month now waiting to be rehandled. It will make a great test piece/prototype.


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## DLK

Well after searching around the web I have one concern. It seems to me regardless of where I buy bits from to make a nice set of screwdrivers (looked at all of toddjb post #22 list), then it would just be cheaper to order a set of grace screwdrivers or the parallel tip screwdrivers from lee valley. Well I don't think we want to that. These leaves as far as I can see four options.


Buy a set of plastic handle but good quality screw drivers and cut off or bash off the handles.
Make handles for hardware store bit holders or for long shank hardware store bits. 
Rehab antique screwdrivers.
Make turnscrews from tool steel.

I don't think I can be up to speed to do number 4 in time. Are these options acceptable? Any other ideas?


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## terryR

^That's why I buy Grace drivers.
Solid users at $6 each.

Don, try NOT to think of the cost of this swap. Buy a decent set of screwdrivers ( $30 ) and tear them apart. Then add a cool custom handle. Exotic wood, brass, nickel, leather, mammoth ivory, diamonds…


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## terryR

These may not be so fancy, but I'd gladly reach for one instead of a plastic!


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## DLK

Thanks for the encouragement Terry. I would like to make those ^. But I'm not confident I have the metal skills … yet and I have limited shop hours anyway. I made a nice handle last night that I'm going to go with. Sorry no diamonds or ivory :-] Still looking for some nice bit alternatives, but in the end may tear apart some nice screw drivers.


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## terryR

I hear ya about shop time…

But, building confidence is more important in these swaps than building a screwdriver! I say go for the metalwork, Don! If it doesn't come out as great as you want, the next one will.


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## DLK

> I hear ya about shop time…
> 
> But, building confidence is more important in these swaps than building a screwdriver! I say go for the metalwork, Don! If it doesn t come out as great as you want, the next one will.
> 
> - terryR


Then I have to order more O1 steel. How thick?


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## wormil

Another option that might work for a smaller driver is K&S music wire which is 1085 spring steel and comes pre-hardened. I haven't tried this so I'm only speculating. The largest size is 512 = 9/32". Music wire is fairly inexpensive and is sold by many places.


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## sepeck

Some random charts I found on tip sizing that did not pop up weird pages
http://sizes.com/tools/screw_drive.htm
http://sizes.com/tools/wood_screwtbl.htm

May be of use if you are considering making your own blades.


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## terryR

Don, grab a screwdriver that you like and measure the thickness. I haven't really looked yet.

And those^ charts are nice. Thanks, Steven!

Heat treating something as small as this should be easy with mapp gas and crisco. If anyone wants tips, lemme know.

Anyone figured out how to shape a Phillips yet?


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## wormil

Maybe easier to file a Phillips.


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## Ripthorn

Best way to do a Phillips would be to put the taper on the end, and then mount the rod in a square block of wood that has been drilled on the center to accept that shank with a cross hole threaded for a thumb screw to secure the rod. Then, make up a file guide jig that only allows the file to travel along a certain trajectory. File the one recess to desired level, turn the square block to another side, repeat for all four sides. Knife makers sometimes use a file guide jig that could be made to work with this. Of course, it will be labor intensive and you still might not get a good result. Phillips bits are carefully made so that they actually cam out. This was done to prevent damage to the fastener back in the day, but fastener makers' dedication has resulted in screws that easily strip despite Phillips' best intentions.

Personally, I don't think I will try to make a Phillips from scratch, even with my mill. I would just rehandle a decent one.


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## waho6o9

http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece-m2-high-speed-steel-mini-tool-bits-for-metalworking-lathes-40641.html










M2 High Speed Steel Mini Lathe Bits for Metalworking 5 Pc

For 4.49 plus S&H it might be something you can use but none of the ends are cut at 90 degrees.


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## DLK

^ Interesting.


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## sepeck

My buddy who does casting and stuff (he's following some book series where you build all your machine shop tools yourself starting with a foundry) says that is the best deal for that high speed steel and it's awesome stuff for him to work with. He does more with metal then I do so I am going off his expertise and not mine.


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## DLK

I'd run over to HF and buy it. Buts it is a 5.5 hour drive. But maybe i'll order some online. How long are they?
What are the sizes?


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## waho6o9

3/16" square x 2.5 long

1/8" square x 2.5 long

1/4" square x 2.5 long

Thats what's left of my purchase.


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## DLK

Thanks.


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## waho6o9

You're welcome


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## DLK

I think Mafe's blog on restoring old english screwdrivers is very inspirational.


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## HokieKen

Anybody know if the M2 HSS from Harbor Freight comes annealed? If so, it will probably need to be hardened and tempered to be used as screwdriver bits.


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## sepeck

Here's the link to the Mafe's screwdriver series (something went wrong with Don's link for me)
http://lumberjocks.com/mafe/blog/series/4434

For those wondering how they made handles for the flat bladed screw drivers, they are like files with a tang, you can see a picture in the 2nd blog post of it. Nice find Don.


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## Ripthorn

> Anybody know if the M2 HSS from Harbor Freight comes annealed? If so, it will probably need to be hardened and tempered to be used as screwdriver bits.
> 
> - HokieKen


It most certainly is not. Any HSS tool that is sold is hardened and tempered. You simply cannot harden or temper it at home, unless you have a multi million dollar kiln chilling in your shop. You will also not be able to anneal it. That is the whole reason it was invented. You can take it to blazing red hot and it will maintain its hardness. I once heard a machinist say that you could get it so hot that it would melt into a puddle and it would still be a ridiculously hard puddle of metal. It was engineered to keeps its hardness at super high temperatures. With those tool bits, you will have to grind them to shape. Don't worry about wrecking temper, it simply won't happen. Typically it gets quenched just so that the person can hold it while grinding, not for hardness reasons.


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## DLK

> Here s the link to the Mafe s screwdriver series (something went wrong with Don s link for me)
> http://lumberjocks.com/mafe/blog/series/4434
> 
> For those wondering how they made handles for the flat bladed screw drivers, they are like files with a tang, you can see a picture in the 2nd blog post of it. Nice find Don.
> 
> - sepeck


Thanks. I don't know what happened with the link. Concerning the flat bladed screw driver being a nice find, there is by the way a complete Stanley 55 that goes with it.


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## jmartel

For anyone interested, Rockler has a 4 in 1 screwdriver kit for like $6. No idea on the quality of it, but I saw it when I was in the store today. Another option.


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## DLK

> Anybody know if the M2 HSS from Harbor Freight comes annealed? If so, it will probably need to be hardened and tempered to be used as screwdriver bits.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> It most certainly is not. Any HSS tool that is sold is hardened and tempered. You simply cannot harden or temper it at home, unless you have a multi million dollar kiln chilling in your shop. You will also not be able to anneal it. That is the whole reason it was invented. You can take it to blazing red hot and it will maintain its hardness. I once heard a machinist say that you could get it so hot that it would melt into a puddle and it would still be a ridiculously hard puddle of metal. It was engineered to keeps its hardness at super high temperatures. With those tool bits, you will have to grind them to shape. Don t worry about wrecking temper, it simply won t happen. Typically it gets quenched just so that the person can hold it while grinding, not for hardness reasons.
> 
> - Ripthorn


Thats very interesting.


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## SignWave

> For anyone interested, Rockler has a 4 in 1 screwdriver kit for like $6. No idea on the quality of it, but I saw it when I was in the store today. Another option.
> 
> - jmartel


HD has the orange handled 4 in 1 for US$2.97. You can get the plastic handle off with a hacksaw in about 30-60 seconds. The metal seems fine, IMHO.


----------



## HokieKen

> It most certainly is not. Any HSS tool that is sold is hardened and tempered. You simply cannot harden or temper it at home, unless you have a multi million dollar kiln chilling in your shop.
> 
> - Ripthorn


I have purchased M2 and O1 tool steel from a few sources in annealed state, primarily McMaster Carr. To your point though, I do have access to ovens for treating and tempering. O1 can be done pretty successfully at home though. Only reason for buying it annealed is if you can't form it with a grinder. In this case, if anyone plans to file or mill phillips heads, I'd buy annealed O1.


----------



## Ripthorn

That is the first time I've seen M2 for sale in the annealed state. In order to properly harden it, you have to get it to 2200 degrees (it will melt at 2500 or so), then quench in a salt bath. Then it must be double tempered at a very controlled rate. Annealing it is even more tricky. That has to be a nice oven to handle M2. All of these processes take several hours with HSS. Certainly not for the home hobbyist, that's for sure.


----------



## HokieKen

> That is the first time I ve seen M2 for sale in the annealed state. In order to properly harden it, you have to get it to 2200 degrees (it will melt at 2500 or so), then quench in a salt bath. Then it must be double tempered at a very controlled rate. Annealing it is even more tricky. That has to be a nice oven to handle M2. All of these processes take several hours with HSS. Certainly not for the home hobbyist, that s for sure.
> 
> - Ripthorn


Absolutely right. You also have to control the rate of temperature increase and decrease as well. And if you quench in salt, that temperature must be maintained as well at 1000 deg. DEFINITELY not for small shop use. I'm fortunate to work for a manufacturing company with a large shop and a foundry so I have access to all kinds of toys 

O1 is very workable for a home shop though. Plenty of info out there on hardening and tempering it with a torch, some motor oil and a kitchen oven.


----------



## Ripthorn

Yeah, O1 is what I work with. Any time you see a HSS tool or tool blank, especially for machining, it is already hardened and tempered. If you have access to the equipment, that's awesome, it's just that sourcing annealed HSS is not terribly common, at least not at retail places.


----------



## bmwaits

I'm in. Thank you!


----------



## waho6o9

Awesome and welcome to LJs' bmwaits!


----------



## SASmith

I heard back from dan at grace tools.
10 sets of sizes 1,2,and 3 in phillips would be $60 + shipping.
10 sets of sizes 6,8,and 10 in slotted would be $75 + shipping.
Is there enough interest to put together a group buy?
Not sure I will have enough time to repackage and reship them. Anyone up for taking it on? If not I will order it and maybe I can find one or two guys that want a few sets of each.


----------



## bobasaurus

I really like the ratcheting hex bit holders… wonder if I can find a decent one I could put a nice handle on.


----------



## ShaneA

Scott, Can he ship them to us, without you having to be stuck with middle man responsibilities? I would be interested in a set of Phillips and Slotted…if I understand correctly, they are $6 and $7.50 per set, plus shipping?


----------



## Mosquito

Is that 
10 sets for $60 so $6 per set or is that $60/set if you buy 10?

If it's $6/$7.50 + applicable shipping per each set, count me in.


----------



## ToddJB

> Is that
> 10 sets for $60 so $6 per set or is that $60/set if you buy 10?
> 
> If it s $6/$7.50 + applicable shipping per each set, count me in.
> 
> - Mosquito


Ditto.


----------



## jmartel

If they are $6/$7.50 each set plus shipping, I'll take either 2 or 3 sets of each. Figure I can do a set for the swap, one for me, and one for my dad.


----------



## ToddJB

Actually, good thought. I'd do two sets, as well.


----------



## Ripthorn

Scott, I might be interested as well. Just let us know.


----------



## sepeck

> Is that
> 10 sets for $60 so $6 per set or is that $60/set if you buy 10?
> 
> If it s $6/$7.50 + applicable shipping per each set, count me in.
> 
> - Mosquito


I'd be in for 3 sets as well. (of both the flat and phillips)


----------



## AgentTwitch

I would be interested in a couple of sets of each as well if the turn out to be $6/7.50 each set.

Perhaps we could send prepaid self addressed envelopes to you with payment? Might make it less of a hassle if Grace won't ship individually, which I'd be surprised if they did


----------



## SASmith

> Scott, Can he ship them to us, without you having to be stuck with middle man responsibilities? I would be interested in a set of Phillips and Slotted…if I understand correctly, they are $6 and $7.50 per set, plus shipping?
> 
> - ShaneA


They are not interested in making this a regular thing and don't want to ship to a bunch of different addresses(at this price anyway).
And yes they are $6 and $7.50 per set. (3 phillips and 3 slotted)
I think it is a pretty good price. I would get a few sets for myself even if I don't have time for the swap.


----------



## bobasaurus

I would also be up for two sets of each, Scott, if you're willing to manage it.


----------



## DLK

I would also buy 2 of each of these sets. But I may go with what I already have ordered.
Mos I think you take pay pal. Can you handle the distribution?


----------



## PAchemist

Sign me up for the swap.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Maybe grace tools could set it up where we could place orders directly from them but use the "promo code" LJ screwdriver swap. I would get a set of each, even if I am still on the fence.


----------



## wormil

Cost of sets + shipping + shipping again (under $4 to most places) + 3% Paypal

So one $6 set will probably be $12 by the time it gets to the individual.


----------



## builtinbkyn

> Some random charts I found on tip sizing that did not pop up weird pages
> 
> - sepeck


LOL I bet that search presented some interesting results.


----------



## KayBee

I've been watching these swaps too long, count me in! Also interested in 2 of each set of screwdrivers. How are we paying and sending shipping info?


----------



## waho6o9

I'm good for a couple of sets.


----------



## putty

I'm not doing the swap, but if possible I would like a couple sets!!


----------



## Iguana

I'd be in for 3 sets of each, same reason jmart states. My dad's b'day is mid-June, this would be a great present.

And no Robertson drive option? I'd buy 3 sets of that, too.


----------



## john2005

I would be up for 2 sets Scott.

As for the swap I keep going back and forth. I want to do it than my wife reminds me of what I am already committed to. I think I can make it happen though. Like Andy I will let you know before the registration cutoff if I am a go or no.


----------



## jeffswildwood

john2005, I am in the same boat. I too am keeping an eye on the calendar. It's killing me to jump in!


----------



## waho6o9

25 sets are wanted. I can do the logistics if need be.


----------



## CL810

I would also like 4 sets of both the flat and Phillips head shanks wahoo.


----------



## waho6o9

You're welcome CL810

29 and counting

We know you're busy Mos, when time permits we can add to the amount ordered
when you let us know.

If it's $6/$7.50 + applicable shipping per each set, count me in.

Good idea Norm, I just spoke with Paypal and it would be too much hassle 
to set up an account for a one time deal.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Is this worth putting a Paypal page out there so people can pre-order exactly how many they want to buy (quantity of each set)? Might be easier to have the money first to cover the tools and the shipping. You can shut down the page when you are done taking pre orders and add some markup to account for the Paypal expenses. One simple shipping method would be to use small flat rate boxes or envelopes for US orders (you could put 50 sets in a box, or 1 set). It would suck to have Waho or anyone buy 100 sets and then get stuck with the remaining sets and their costs for whatever reason.


----------



## putty

I want to clarify, I would like 2 sets of each.


----------



## waho6o9

Copy that Putty.

No problem Norm, full speed ahead.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Waho!

Put me down for 3 of each set. If we run into an upper limit where they'll only send/sell so many I'm fine with just 1, so let us know there. We should probably find that out too?

Let us know how you want to handle payments. I'd be fine with paying for the driver sets before hand, and then paying for shipping (my share of getting them to you, and then to me) after that. Whatever is easiest/best for you


----------



## waho6o9

Thanks Mos, that's the most efficient way to do this I think.

3 sets for Mos, got it.


----------



## Mosquito

Also, I've updated the first post with the current active list of participants. If you think your name should be in the active list and it isn't, let me know!

Those under "pending" have either not sent info, or not confirmed they're participating yet (on the fence)


----------



## DLK

You can also bump me up to 3 sets.

I am also happy to pay up front.


----------



## ShaneA

2 sets each here too. Also happy to pay up front, just let me know what I need to do or provide. Thanks for the efforts fellas. Appreciate it.


----------



## wormil

> Is this worth putting a Paypal page out there so people can pre-order exactly how many they want to buy (quantity of each set)? Might be easier to have the money first to cover the tools and the shipping. You can shut down the page when you are done taking pre orders and add some markup to account for the Paypal expenses. One simple shipping method would be to use small flat rate boxes or envelopes for US orders (you could put 50 sets in a box, or 1 set). It would suck to have Waho or anyone buy 100 sets and then get stuck with the remaining sets and their costs for whatever reason.
> 
> - AgentTwitch


This looks like a solid plan.

FYI-you can now ship first class packages up to 16oz., discount rate is $3.65, then it drops 5 cents per ounce down to 9oz.

I would get a preliminary estimate of how many sets we need and then go back and ask for a new price because it will be way more than 10 sets.


----------



## sepeck

> Is that
> 10 sets for $60 so $6 per set or is that $60/set if you buy 10?
> 
> If it s $6/$7.50 + applicable shipping per each set, count me in.
> 
> - Mosquito
> 
> I d be in for 3 sets as well. (of both the flat and phillips)
> 
> - sepeck


So… I was telling my wife about this and she asked if I made sure there was a set for her…. That would be 4 each for me then…

Who is doing the counting and such on this? I can send money in advance. Also, if you need to 'even' up to a round 10, I can add an extra set or two to help top off since I am reasonably sure Christmas will show up this year at some point as well.


----------



## bobasaurus

I'd also add a third set of each to round up if needed.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

If you don't mind having someone not in the swap, I'd like two of each set. No biggie either way.


----------



## ToddJB

Ha. Well this is quite the turn out. Why not just ask him for a thousand?

When we were chatting last year I suggested that he add a shank only option to his website as turners would eat that up.


----------



## SASmith

waho6o9, I forwarded a years worth of my emails with dan to you. 
Thanks for taking this on.
Maybe they will see there is a market for these.


----------



## CL810

Wahoo, don't be shy about adding a handling fee for all this. Thanks for doing this, let me know how to pay.


----------



## TheFridge

I need a set


----------



## waho6o9

Copy that Fridge for a set, BRK for two sets, Bobasaurus and Sepeck rounding up if needed.

Thanks for the continuity Scott Smith!

Thank you CL810, we'll see what the vendor says and we'll go from there.

"Who is doing the counting and such on this?" Me


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Wahoo, don t be shy about adding a handling fee for all this. Thanks for doing this, let me know how to pay.
> 
> - CL810


Yes, mark the up a bit for your time and trouble. IF, double IF you want to even mess with it. We shouldn't blame you if not.


----------



## waho6o9

I will take your friendly advice under consideration Red, thank you.

Dan from Grace tools responded and he'll get the order out next week when he returns 
from vacation.

40 Sets have been requested from fellow LJers so far


----------



## waho6o9

If it's easier to send payment with a self addressed / postage paid return envelope,

Excellent ^ Yes and thank you .

Please send payment with a self addressed/postage paid return envelope to:

James Bodine
7011 Vanalden Ave.
Reseda, Ca. 91335 - 3902


----------



## Mosquito

Do we know what size envelope we need to send you?


----------



## DLK

I am getting slightly confused.

Does a set mean all 6 shanks:i.e. one each of size 1,2,and 3 in phillips and one each of size 6,8,and 10 in slotted?
Is the payment $13.50 per set.

What shall we make the rake be?

How much does a set weigh?

What size envelope? for 1 , 2, 3, or 4 sets?


----------



## waho6o9

A set means all 6 shanks.

What shall we make the rake be? ?? Please explain

Not sure how much a set weighs

Do we know what size envelope we need to send you?

I Guess it would depend on how many sets you get


----------



## DLK

You don't play poker. The rake is the kickback to you for your trouble.


----------



## wormil

> Please send payment with a self addressed/postage paid return envelope to:
> 
> - waho6o9


How much does a set weigh and what is the final price per set? I didn't speak up yet but I'm in for one set at least. Thanks.


----------



## DLK

I would guess if you weighed 6 auger bits it would be close.


----------



## bobasaurus

On second thought wahoo, I think I should back out of buying these. I had an unexpected big purchase lately and shouldn't push it. Sorry for being flaky. I think I'll modify some existing drivers I have instead.


----------



## waho6o9

Make that 41 sets, you're covered Rick.

Good idea on the 6 auger bits for weight guesstimate.

You can make the rake what ever you want and what you're comfortable with.

Thanks Combo Prof.


----------



## waho6o9

Copy that Bobasaurus nothing flaky about it and thank you for letting us know.

Rake on


----------



## ToddJB

I may suggest that we hold off sending money out until we have a confirmed shipped price to Waho. Cart before the horse and all


----------



## Mosquito

I agree with Todd


----------



## DLK

I'm away in East Syracuse, visiting my Mother, so could not send it out the "envelope" until next week anyway.

I like sending a pre-paid envelope idea. It should save Wahoo a load of trouble.


----------



## Ripthorn

ComboProf, I lived in North Syracuse/Cicero for 4 years before moving to Texas. Hope you have a good visit. Luckily, they didn't get much (by their standards) snow, so you should be good!


----------



## JayT

Wahoo, whether I join the swap or not, I'd be interested in two sets of shanks.


----------



## MNclone

I'm in for the swap.
I would also like 2 sets from Grace.


----------



## terryR

Wow, looks like the odds of getting a Grace in the swap keep getting better!


----------



## waho6o9

WE have 2 sets for JayT and 2 sets for MNclone as well.


----------



## DLK

Its 70 degrees here, so no snow, but its supposed to rain every day.


----------



## Hammerthumb

waho - I would like 2 sets of each also. I will not be participating in the swap as I have several other projects for my grandchild that I will be working on this spring.

I look forward to the next swap though.


----------



## waho6o9

Hammerthumb's good for a couple of sets, got it.


----------



## jeffswildwood

wahoo, I'm still down for a set. I'll get a padded envelope for the return, just let us know. 41 sets! I agree Grace tools is missing out on a fantastic marketing idea. I wonder if they know no one else sells these!

Sorry for my indecision on joining. If I can get one good test run, I'll jump in with both feet! I'm ordering so I can be ready. I am having a lot of trouble getting a nice, centered hole for the shafts with wings so it comes out even.


----------



## JayT

Wahoo, make mine 3 sets instead of two. I'm going to make a set for my brother, my dad and myself. Hopefully be able to have them done before Christmas.


----------



## DLK

Thinking out loud:



> I just discovered where Grace Tools was. If I was not working full time, I could drive down to Grace Tools and pick up the screwdriver blades for us. Its about a 7 hour drive each way for me. I could maybe work it out some weekend.
> 
> On the other hand shipping them to Wahoo in California is probably cheaper then driving 348 miles each way to get them anyway. So lets not change the plan.


----------



## DLK

> wahoo, I m still down for a set. I ll get a padded envelope for the return, just let us know. 41 sets! I agree Grace tools is missing out on a fantastic marketing idea. I wonder if they know no one else sells these!
> 
> Sorry for my indecision on joining. If I can get one good test run, I ll jump in with both feet! I m ordering so I can be ready. I am having a lot of trouble getting a nice, centered hole for the shafts with wings so it comes out even.
> 
> - jeffswildwood


I bet they make most of there profit on the handles. So not clear to me if it would be a fantastic marketing idea, but maybe it is.

On my test run I centered the hole using a STANLEY NO 59 DOWELING JIG:









worked beautifully.


----------



## waho6o9

Jeffswildwood for 1 set and Jay T for 3 sets duly noted.

No need to drive for 7 hours, I don't think.


----------



## Mosquito

Good thinking Don! I'll have to dig mine out and see what I've got for the inserts… I think I've only got a few


----------



## DLK

> No need to drive for 7 hours, I don t think.
> - waho6o9


Yup. I agree. I was just surprised it was that close to me. Funny how I am relatively close to some suppliers, given where I live.


----------



## DLK

> Good thinking Don! I ll have to dig mine out and see what I ve got for the inserts… I think I ve only got a few
> 
> - Mosquito


Thanks Mos.


I think you could use bearing sleeves for inserts if you are missing one.


I used the number 5 sleeve (5/16 auger bit) for my prototype. I don't know the size of the grace screw driver blades.


You can kerf the drilled hole with a jig saw blade to fit the screwdriver blades wings.


Also see how Red cut a ferrule tenon: Shop Made Screwdrivers Without a Lathe


----------



## wormil

Done, who's my swap partner


----------



## Babieca

Photo redacted


----------



## DLK

I thought:

*Rules for this swap*

- Teaser shots are allowed, but please do not post full in-progress or finished pictures until after the reveal date.


----------



## bobasaurus

I like seeing pictures regardless. Nice job Rick, that looks great.


----------



## wormil

I'm kidding, that's a knock out bar for my Delta lathe  Bit beefy for a screwdriver.


----------



## terryR

One more coat of finish, and I'm done, too! C'mon you slackers,


----------



## AgentTwitch

Prototypes are teasers.

I for one can not wait to build a case for these babies!


----------



## bobasaurus

Hah. Terry, I'd be super impressed if you made those. I kind of want to try now…


----------



## Mosquito

+1 on prototypes being teasers.

Terry, I bet you could make those… having seen some of your other work ;-)


----------



## ToddJB

Rick, love the knock out bar! I currently use whatever dowel rod is in reach. I like the idea of making something special for it.


----------



## DLK

> I m kidding, that s a knock out bar for my Delta lathe  Bit beefy for a screwdriver.
> 
> - Rick M.


Ha… you got me.


----------



## bearkatwood

C'mon Red, get in the fun! I already screwed one attempt up, trying for round two tomorrow. My lathe skills are slipping, but I ended up with a nice screwdriver out of it. Sort-of.


----------



## Boatman53

I'm still on the fence on joining in on this swap because it comes at the busiest time of the year for my boat business and I'm feeling behind now.
Jim


----------



## HokieKen

Wahoo, put me down for 5 sets of the Grace drivers. Thanks!


----------



## waho6o9

HokieKen is down for 5 sets.


----------



## bondogaposis

Question for the brain trust, what is the fluid called that you put on metal so you can see the scribing? and where do you get it?


----------



## ToddJB

Bondo, layout fluid. ENCO has it, Amazon has it.


----------



## sepeck

another interesting screwdriver
http://www.rockler.com/how-to/turned-multi-bit-screwdrivers-project/


----------



## wormil

Bonus points, who can correctly identify the wood in the handle?


----------



## AgentTwitch

honey locust? elm? sasafras?


----------



## HokieKen

> Question for the brain trust, what is the fluid called that you put on metal so you can see the scribing? and where do you get it?
> 
> - bondogaposis





> Bondo, layout fluid. ENCO has it, Amazon has it.
> 
> - ToddJB


Here is blue dye. They also have red (which I prefer) but right now it costs more on Amazon. This is the only brand I've ever used and the only brand I've ever known any machinist to use, but there are other brands that are probably just as good. A small bottle will probably last you forever and the Dykem cleans up with denatured alcohol so don't buy any of the "special" dye removers.


----------



## HokieKen

> Bonus points, who can correctly identify the wood in the handle?
> 
> - Rick M.


Dogwood?


----------



## HokieKen

> HokieKen is down for 5 sets.
> 
> - waho6o9


Thanks!

Mos: It might be helpful to edit the OP to add Wahoo's mailing information so we don't have to sift through the thread to find it?


----------



## DLK

> honey locust? elm? sasafras?
> 
> - AgentTwitch


Not honey locust.


----------



## ShaneA

Mulberry, or elm?


----------



## jeffswildwood

I gather we are still on hold to mail money and envelope to wahoo?


----------



## ShaneA

What exactly will be the process to get them ordered? What type of envelope will I need, and where will I get it, how much do I need to get prepaid to make sure I cover the return cost? What are the accepted forms of payment?

Sorry for all the silly questions, I just want to make sure I understand fully, almost seems like something the MFG should be willing to handle for us so Waho isn't burdened with all the risk. Seems like if he gives us a web site and a code, we can all order from him in the coming weeks, and he can justify a production run based on our needs.


----------



## DLK

ShaneA: The plan is as I understand it is that we are each buying a prepaid envelope from the postoffice or buying a prepaid label online printing it and gluing it to an envelope. Then we put it into another envelop and mail that to Wahoo. He will simply put the bits in the envelop with the prepaid return label and carry it to the postoffice (or have home pickup). This leaves the question on how much to prepay, size of envelop etc. When I return home I'll make an effort to figure this out for my order and post what I will do exactly. I'm away visiting my mother in this week.


----------



## wormil

> Mulberry, or elm?
> 
> - ShaneA


Winner winner chicken dinner. White mulberry.


----------



## waho6o9

" everything sounds good and the way we will handle this is, we will get the order packed up and will ship it with an invoice and then you can send a check when you receive them. I'll be in touch next week when we have your order ready."

This was sent to me from the mfg. When we speak next week I'll ask how much for this many sets
and then we come to terms and he'll ship them.

Checks will not be cashed until there's an understanding on all sides.

Jimmy Bodine
7011 Vanalden Ave.
Reseda, CA. 91335 - 3902


----------



## wormil

Thanks waho6o9, aka Jimmy!


----------



## JayT

Do we know sizes/lengths on the shafts? In other words, will multiple sets fit in a small flat rate box? I'm thinking that the best route to get them mailed my way.


----------



## HokieKen

Wahoo, I'll be out of town all week next week. I can send the SASE and a check the following Monday if that's soon enough. If not, just let me know and I'll work it out. Just don't want to leave you in the lurch since you're being good enough to handle this for us!


----------



## waho6o9

No worries HokieKen enjoy your out of town time.

Thanks RickM!


----------



## DLK

> This was sent to me from the mfg. When we speak next week I ll ask how much for this many sets
> and then we come to terms and he ll ship them.
> 
> - waho6o9


Also please ask how long the longest shanks is.


----------



## waho6o9

http://www.graceusatools.com/item-details.php?item_id=14&category_id=2


----------



## donwilwol

Question for all you participants. I started making myself a set of screwdrivers last fall. They are meant to be more-or-less specialty drivers (split nut, saw nut, etc) drivers. I was making two sets, one for me, and one I was just going to put up for sale, but I'd offer them up as part of the swap (they are half way done)

They'll have worn out file shafts, ground to the need, cherry handles with copper ferrules.

If you don't think these will fit in the swap I'll just watch. Either way works. I just don't want somebody to get them and be unhappy.


----------



## ToddJB

Don, in my opinion, they'd be great. I just finished up a couple specialty drivers for myself and my shop is far better for them. I think more regular screw drivers is one thing most shops don't actually need. But this is a great option for making something mundane into something that could be appreciated. If you considered selling these items their quality would be up to par for anyone's shop.


----------



## HokieKen

I'd be thrilled to have them Don! I was actually leaning in that direction for this swap since, like Todd said, we probably all have more screwdrivers than we'll ever use. I liked Bob's driver with the bit reciever driver and special bits ground from spade drills. Was thinking of something along those lines so if the recipient didn't need spit nut drivers or a driver for a cap iron screw they can use it with regular 1/4" bits.

It would be nice to get a general idea of what most people would prefer to have; specialty drivers, regular drivers or combination drivers. For my $.02, I'd prefer specialty drivers. Certainly won't cry about anything I get though!


----------



## Mosquito

I agree with Todd, works for me!


----------



## PAchemist

I've been leaning toward either a bit receiver screwdriver (1/4 inch) or one similar to one of my grandfathers shown below.


----------



## DLK

Thats sounds good to me Don W, I think your in.

I was going to make a set of shorties and maybe include a couple of specialty drivers. I even ordered the parts.
But now we are ordering the grace driver shanks. So I'm conflicted. I'm going to make 2 sets of each.

I think I too would like specialty drivers, but I'm fine with whatever.


----------



## donwilwol

ok, thanks. Consider me in Mos.


----------



## Mosquito

Don is in (Don't forget to send info)


----------



## DLK

PAchemist that looks familiar. :-]


----------



## sepeck

> Question for all you participants. I started making myself a set of screwdrivers last fall. They are meant to be more-or-less specialty drivers (split nut, saw nut, etc) drivers. I was making two sets, one for me, and one I was just going to put up for sale, but I d offer them up as part of the swap (they are half way done)
> 
> They ll have worn out file shafts, ground to the need, cherry handles with copper ferrules.
> 
> If you don t think these will fit in the swap I ll just watch. Either way works. I just don t want somebody to get them and be unhappy.
> 
> - Don W


Don, I just picked up 4 old Disston saws off craigslist for $15 (which was fortunate since they don't pop up very much). Going to look for some smaller handsaws and such. Frankly anyone in these tool swaps will eventually get around to making a saw or has one already so I add a vote for you to jump in.


----------



## fatandy2003

Email sent, Mos. I'm in.

Cheers,


----------



## donwilwol

Thought of the day: Making two of the same thing should be twice the work or less, but I'm quickly finding flaws in that theory. In my shop, the criteria seems completely different when it's being sent to someone else. I've now on my third screwdriver of a particular type, due to some minor flaws in the first two. Well, now it'll be easier to find one anyhow.


----------



## PAchemist

Wow! Sure got quiet here.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Everyone is nervously awaiting the details of the Grace screw driver shafts, heheh.


----------



## Mosquito

1 more week for registration! I believe I've got the list updated and accurate in the first post. If you don't see your name in the participants list and think you should, let me know!


----------



## DLK

I just sent them an e-mail enquiring about the length and diameter of the #3 phillips and #10 slotted. Jimmy, I hope I have not over stepped.


----------



## waho6o9

No worries


----------



## waho6o9

55 Sets have been requested and no word yet from Grace tools.


----------



## waho6o9

Jimmy,

I tried to make it simple the first go around by making the phillips screwdrivers ($2.00 each) and the slotted screwdrivers ($2.50) all the same price when the larger sizes certainly cost more than the smaller ones to manufacture. I've decided to more accurately give you pricing on each size and pricing for the other new sizes listed below that I mentioned earlier. As you will notice, the price is the same for the #1, #2, #3 Phillip Set ($6.00) and #6, #8, #10 Slotted Set ($7.50) that I quoted before and if you would like to add any of the other sizes we would be happy to make those for you as well. The #0 Phillips and #2, #4 slotted are high demand sizes but there is no pressure to add anything.

Also, because of the large quantity we have decided to pay the shipping for this order to one location.

your cost for 55 each is as follows -

Phillips 
#0 $1.50 (new)
#1 1.75
#2 2.00
#3 2.25
#4 2.50 (new)

Slotted wood screw
#2 2.00 (new)
#4 2.25 (new)
#6 2.25
#8 2.50
#10 2.75
#12 3.00 (new)
#14 3.25 (new)

Also, we have available several different steel ferrules that may be difficult for everyone to make. We have five sizes in nickel plating and three sizes that are finished in black oxide. They range from .10 to .25 cents each ferrule. You may purchase any quantity. These are also made in the USA.

If I can answer any other questions please feel free to contact me any time.

Best regards,
Dan

Daniel D. Morrison, President
Grace USA
6322 Yuba Road
Williamsburg, MI 49690
Email - [email protected]
Website - www.graceusatools.com
Phone - 231-264-8133

So it's 13.50 per set.

You should be able to figure out the shipping from 91335-3902 to your house.

You should be able to figure which envelope to use and how much postage on the self addressed
envelope back to your house or place of business.

My rake, or gratuity will be determined by you as I'm doing this to help out and I'm not in it to
make money, any and all consideration is appreciated.


----------



## DLK

I don't understand. How can we figure out which envelope to use when we don't how long the shanks are?


----------



## KayBee

From Brownells site

straight slot
following dimensions (approx. blade width x approx. blade thickness): #2 - .145" x .020" (.368 x .051cm); #4 - .206" x .033" (.523 x .084cm); #6 - .235" x .040" (.597 x .102cm); #8 - .286" x .043" (.726 x .109cm); #10 - .305" x .049" (.775 x .124cm); #12 - .357" x .052" (.907 x .132cm); and #14 - .374" x .062" (.950 x .157cm). 5-15/16" (15.08cm) to 12-7/8" (32.7cm) OAL.

phillips
Five-screwdriver set includes 0, 1, 2, 3, and 4 tips with round shanks. 5½" (13.97cm) to 13¾" (34.9cm) OAL.
OAL- over all length(I'm guessing ) with handles

Hope this helps clear things up.


----------



## wormil

To be honest I regret speaking up for a set because I won't have time to make handles for a whole set of screwdrivers. I have to gut and remodel a bath and laundry room because the pvc is rotten and bursting, some kind of junk from the 60's that is no longer sold. So I'll be making one screwdriver. Anyone want the set I spoke for? If not, I'm happy to still buy it but it won't be part of my swap.


----------



## PAchemist

Karen - thanks for the dimension info from the Brownells site. Should prove useful.


----------



## ToddJB

Rick, I can pick up your set. That makes my total 3, Waho. Count should stay the same.


----------



## ToddJB

If 13.75 is the overall length with handles then a 12" padded envelope should do fine. There is a flat rate one for $6.80. Are there cheaper EASIER ways?


----------



## PAchemist

Such inspiration. http://www.leevalley.com/en/gifts/page.aspx?p=71447&cat=60655,47276


----------



## DLK

Thanks KayBee. I couldn't find even that info. Would be nice to know length without handles for those guys thinking of using a small flat rate box. But then a 12" padded envelope would be better. How many will fit?


----------



## AgentTwitch

Waho, you are the best!


----------



## ToddJB

I'm getting 3 sets and have zero concern of getting them all into one of those envolopes


----------



## summerfi

I'm not in the swap (yet), but I agree the padded flat rate envelopes are the way to go. Wahoo, you can order them in bulk for free online and have them delivered right to your door. No need for everyone to send you an envelope. Also, if you pay for the postage online, it is a little cheaper than the standard $6.80 for the envelopes.

https://store.usps.com/store/browse/subcategory.jsp%3FcategoryId%3Dpriority-mail


----------



## DLK

I went to the postoffice this morning and weighed 18 of my smallest auger bits came to a little over 2lbs, So I think 3 of the sets will be under 2 lbs. They strongly recommended a box over a padded envelope. But to use a flat rate box requires one to to know the precise shipping day. This I think will be difficult to determine and will place an additional burden on Jimmy. So I got a 12" padded envelop and will enclose inside it a corrugated cardboard sleeve to accept the screwdriver shanks. Prepay shipping for 2lbs and enclose the prepaid envelope in a manilla envelope and send it with a check for for the 3 sets of 6 shanks each. Anyway thats my plan. I hope to get it in the mail by Friday morning.

*Mos* I am a little worried about the important dates.

I think it will take about a week for all of us to get our act together and get the checks to Jimmy. Then Jimmy will have to cash and deposit the checks and order the 55 sets of screwdriver shanks. This will take at least a couple of days. Then Grace tools will ship to Jimmy. This may take about a week. Once they arrive at Jimmy's. He will have to sort out shanks into the envelopes and take them to the post office this will take at least another couple of days. The shanks will be in our hands a week after that. Thus I think it will be 4 weeks from now before we have the shanks in hand and can begin work on the project. (I have a shank and could be ready for the schedule progress picture, but others may not be able to do so.) Thus I think you may want to extend the important dates by a Month or at least 2 weeks.

It is possible that we can work this back and forth shipping a little faster and shave off a week or so.


----------



## ToddJB

Waho, do you use PayPal. Is that faster/easier than getting tangible checks?


----------



## DLK

> I m not in the swap (yet), but I agree the padded flat rate envelopes are the way to go. Wahoo, you can order them in bulk for free online and have them delivered right to your door. No need for everyone to send you an envelope. Also, if you pay for the postage online, it is a little cheaper than the standard $6.80 for the envelopes.
> 
> https://store.usps.com/store/browse/subcategory.jsp%3FcategoryId%3Dpriority-mail
> 
> - summerfi


You must be talking about these:https://store.usps.com/store/browse/productDetailSingleSku.jsp?categoryNavIds=shipping-supplies%3aprepaid-priority-mail&categoryNav=false&navAction=push&navCount=0&atg.multisite.remap=false&categoryId=prepaid-priority-mail&productId=P_PPEP14PE
They didn't tell me about those at the post office.

If Jimmy is willing to do this. That would be great! But it is a little more work from him.

So Jimmy how about this plan you order online the padded envelops, we enclose in an envelope a check and a mailing label to you. You put the the shanks in the envelops and glue on the mailing labels.

Jimmy if you can use paypal, then *MOS* could send you all our mailing addresses for you to put on the envelops and it would be more reliable, cheaper and easier I think.


----------



## wormil

> Rick, I can pick up your set. That makes my total 3, Waho. Count should stay the same.
> 
> - ToddJB


Thank you Todd. I'd rather be making handles but the wife would rather have bathrooms and hot water for the wash. Her priorities are all screwed up


----------



## JayT

> I d rather be making handles but the wife would rather have bathrooms and hot water for the wash. Her priorities are all screwed up
> 
> - Rick M.


If her priorities are screwed up, doesn't she need a nice screwdriver set to keep them there?


----------



## DLK

JayT I like the logic, I may make my wife a screwdriver set too.


----------



## putty

here is an option, 
waho buys shafts,
waho buys flat rate boxes
waho lets us know what the total cost pre set is, with taxes shipping and any other expenses

we mail Waho a filled out shipping label to use on the boxes and a check or cash … with a gratuity for his trouble


----------



## DLK

Putty here is a better option:


we send ASAP (x)($13.50)+($10.00) or more, to cover purchase of x sets and flat rate boxes or envelops to ship them in plus other costs.
Waho buys the shafts and the boxes.
Waho tells when he is ready and picks a shipping day.
A couple of days before the shipping day we buy online a shipping labled filled out for that shipping day and e-mail a pdf of the shipping label to Waho.
Waho prints the shipping labels glues them to the boxes and gets them to the postoffice on the selected shipping day.

The two problems with your suggestion putty are

Wahoo has to invest upfront over $800 (Maybe he cannot afford to do this).
You have to put the exact shipping day on a flat rate box mailing label.

As I understand it with the padded envelope suggested by Bob, that you can order a stack of them at $6.80 each and just fill out the shipping as needed.


----------



## sepeck

This is NOT my swap item. This is test 1 for handle shape. I have two more different shapes to make and I figure why not use the 4 in 1 drives.

This used to live in my truck with a plastic handle, now it will live in my truck with a wood handle. The test piece is hard maple (since I had a blank of it for door stops that was the right size) and clear shellac. I thought the handle was going to be uncomfortable but was intrigued. I find it an unexpected nice fit in my hand. My wife says the handle is about 1/4-1/2" to long. Hrmmm…. Anyway. Onto the next handle shape.










Oh, for some initial idea, I just did an image search on wood handled screwdrivers=

Oh, also came across this link for how he made his handles and ferrule. It's a little different then some other steps I have seen so figured I would add it to the thread resources
http://www.woodtalkonline.com/topic/1532-making-your-own-custom-screwdrivers/


----------



## jeffswildwood

Steven, thank you for the tips! They were right on time. I am still trying test pieces hoping to get one right so I can take the plunge. My biggest problem so far is I have the worlds oldest drill press (a small craftsman model from the 60's) and no lathe. Your test piece looks awesome!


----------



## waho6o9

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/63579

If your so inclined you can make a drill lathe.


----------



## sepeck

> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/63579
> 
> If your so inclined you can make a drill lathe.
> 
> - waho6o9


I like the on button you have. Hey! Is that a 3d printed holder for a phone? So you can film it?


----------



## waho6o9

It's a DKV invention


----------



## JayT

Another option on the lathe is an easy to make a bungee powered bench top lathe courtesy of Richard Maguire, AKA the English Woodworker. The link for plans is at the bottom of the blog post.










I made one in an afternoon and have used it a few times. There's a bit of a learning curve to using a foot powered reciprocating lathe versus one that spins the same direction all the time, but it's a decent solution for someone that won't use a lathe very often. Scrap 2x's, some screws, a couple lag bolts, some rope and a bungee cord. Less than $10 spent to make mine.


----------



## sepeck

> It s a DKV invention
> 
> - waho6o9


ah. so it is…. /me sees link… doh.


----------



## waho6o9

Hi Jesse,

Did you want me to proceed with the 55 sets?

Thanks,

Dan

Daniel D. Morrison, President
Grace USA
6322 Yuba Road
Williamsburg, MI 49690
Email - [email protected]
Website - www.graceusatools.com
Phone - 231-264-8133

Do most folks have Paypal as we have to make a decision and I'm not sure what to charge,
including percentages that they request as I don't do that friends and family routine cause they
have to stay in business.
'
Is 30.00 for a set okay? It's about 20.00 to ship with boxes, envelopes (I'm guessing)

If that floats your boat my Paypal is:

[email protected]

I only have one confirmed LJer sending a check.

Waho
All the Best


----------



## putty

What about multiple sets, will they fit in the same boxes?


----------



## JayT

I can PayPal, waho and can send whenever. I was waiting until we got confirmation from Grace that they were actually going to follow through this time.

Are you willing to pick up the envelopes or whatever is needed to mail and address accordingly? (You can print shipping labels from PayPal, right?) I'm willing to do whatever is easiest for you-paypal, sending an addressed, postage paid shipping container, whatever.

Tell us how you want it handled and I'll do it that way. Appreciate your willingness to take this on.


----------



## DLK

Even a flat rate medium box is only $13.45 and will hold many many sets. So I would think at the very most if I buy 3 sets it would be 3(13.50)+13.45=$53.95. If its $30 per set, then I'm out.


----------



## Mosquito

Don, slow down; I would assume that it's not $30 PER set (each), but rather $30 is for the FIRST set. The set, getting boxes/envelopes or whatever, packing it, and shipping it for $30. I would guess additional sets would be $13.50 more per set. (A "set" being 6 shanks)

Is that accurate Waho?


----------



## ToddJB

Okay. This is getting complicated.

Waho, are you willing to do the flat rate envelope option here?

https://store.usps.com/store/browse/productDetailSingleSku.jsp?categoryNavIds=shipping-supplies%3aprepaid-priority-mail&categoryNav=false&navAction=push&navCount=0&atg.multisite.remap=false&categoryId=prepaid-priority-mail&productId=P_PPEP14PE

If so,

Then the actual cost break down looks like this:

1 set (6 shanks) is $14.16 (This includes the PayPal fees) + shipping in a flat rate padded envelope at $6.80 = a TOTAL of $20.96 
Each additional set would be an additional $14.16 of the cost of shanks and PayPal fees so:
2 sets = $35.12
3 sets = $49.28
4 sets = $63.44
5 sets = $77.60

Anything you want to give above and beyond that is a gift to Waho for doing us this super awesome gesture.

Waho, does this sound good to you?


----------



## waho6o9

I like ToddJBs' plan

That is correct Mos


----------



## DLK

Sorry Waho, Mos, and everyone. I'm not feeling very well.

ToddJB: Thats sounds like what I was expecting, but a small flat rate box would be better if they will fit.


----------



## waho6o9

Todds' plan is equitable.

Waho, are you willing to do the flat rate envelope option here?

https://store.usps.com/store/browse/productDetailSingleSku.jsp?categoryNavIds=shipping-supplies%3aprepaid-priority-mail&categoryNav=false&navAction=push&navCount=0&atg.multisite.remap=false&categoryId=prepaid-priority-mail&productId=P_PPEP14PE

If so,

Then the actual cost break down looks like this:

1 set (6 shanks) is $14.16 (This includes the PayPal fees) + shipping in a flat rate padded envelope at $6.80 = a TOTAL of $20.96 
Each additional set would be an additional $14.16 of the cost of shanks and PayPal fees so:
2 sets = $35.12
3 sets = $49.28
4 sets = $63.44
5 sets = $77.60

Anything you want to give above and beyond that is a gift to Waho for doing us this super awesome gesture.

Waho, does this sound good to you?


----------



## ToddJB

Perfect.

Everyone get Waho paid ASAP to his PayPal here: [email protected]

In the notes of the PayPal include your name, how many sets you ordered, and your address

As soon as Waho has enough cash to front the cost of the Grace order and the envelopes he can put the orders in.

IF YOU NEED SOMETHING SPECIAL, like a different shipping option, or you need to send a check cause you can't do PayPal or whatever…. you need to contact Waho to arrange that

Let's make this happen.

Waho, my PayPal is arriving shortly. Thanks again so much for this!


----------



## putty

Todd, That looks good. Does it include anything for Waho's time and trouble?


----------



## DLK

If this is the plan I'll send the paypal money on Friday, as I will be in surgery (routine) tomorrow. Maybe I'll get it to you Thursday night. Right now I feel so sick I am sure I'll screw something up.

Waho's time and trouble would be extra.


----------



## waho6o9

Thanks to all for the insights, let's do this.


----------



## ToddJB

Waho, payment sent.

Putty, those numbers are actual cost. If you would like to tip Waho just add whatever your heart is leading you to


----------



## putty

Ok, I will paypal tomorrow for 2 sets

Thanks for doing this Waho!!!


----------



## waho6o9

Thanks Todd, Putty and Mos, this is going to be good.


----------



## ToddJB

> but a small flat rate box would be better if they will fit.
> 
> - Combo Prof


We can leave this to Waho's discretion once he actually has the shanks in hand, as they are the same price.


----------



## JayT

Payment sent, waho. Thanks again.


----------



## waho6o9

CL810 paid 4 sets

JayT paid 3 sets

Todd paid 3 sets

Waho paid 2 sets

43 to go and then I'll ask Dan to ship them


----------



## BigRedKnothead

paypal sent for my two sets.


----------



## DLK

We need pictures now. So heres a teaser of sorts.










I'm going to sleep now.


----------



## ShaneA

Money sent for 2 sets. Let me know if there are any issues. Thanks


----------



## Mosquito

My paypal should be on the way for 3 sets, thanks!


----------



## TheFridge

PayPal sent for one set


----------



## waho6o9

BRK paid 2 sets

ShaneA paid 2 sets

Mis paid 3 sets

Fridge paid 1 set

8 sets added, 35 to go.


----------



## HokieKen

Paypal just sent for my 5 sets. Thanks again Wahoo!


----------



## ToddJB

Yeah, almost half way there in one evening. Don't be the guy that holds up the progress. Pay early so you can judge those that holds up the process


----------



## MNclone

Paypal Sent for my 2 sets.


----------



## woodcox

Are orders still being taken? I would like a set if possible.


----------



## TheFridge

Yes Todd. And as some of you know. I am very judgey.


----------



## waho6o9

Woodcox paid 1 set

CL810 paid 4 sets

HokieKen 5 sets

PM sent to MNclone

Please put you LJ handle in the note section of PayPal please.
Thank you

30 sets paid, 25 to go


----------



## TheFridge

On the subject of screwdrivers.

Am I the only that tries to keep a set of #2 flat and Phillips at every possible working spot in the shop? Can never have enough I say.


----------



## wormil

Just practicing. Wood came from a headboard post. A beater chisel.


----------



## DLK

My paypal should be on the way for 3 sets, thanks!


----------



## AgentTwitch

Great! Payment sent for 4 sets. Thanks Waho and Todd!


----------



## waho6o9

Copy that Don K for 3 sets

& Norm's paid for 4 sets


----------



## putty

PayPal sent for 2 sets

Thanks Waho


----------



## waho6o9

Cut - off is this Saturday

Putty paid for 2 sets.

Hello Dan

We have 39 sets paid for with 629.36 sitting in my Paypal account.

May we have a little time please and I don't want this lingering so a cut-off date
is important. Saturday 3 - 19 - 2016 should work for everyone.

Jimmy Bodine
All the Best

"Dans' response:

that's fine. if you need longer just let me know. I'm in know hurry. I just don't want to put it off on my end as things tend to get buried here and the next thing I know a year has gone buy….

Dan."

Thoughts?

That should work for everyone. If not, now's the time to speak up.


----------



## Mosquito

Sounds good to me. We can adjust swap deadlines depending on what the timeline is like for getting them from Grace once we get that far as well.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Should I mail a check? It won't get there by saturday but would be on the way. Sorry I have no paypal. If this is not OK let me know before I ride out, if not maybe someone would want my set. Let me know!


----------



## waho6o9

Should I mail a check?

It's up to you my friend


----------



## jeffswildwood

It will be in the mail within the hour. Thanks for you kindness and patients. PS, I will now come off the fence and join. All my projects are done and I have time to work on this.


----------



## waho6o9

Thank you jeffswildwood

Jeffswildwood paid for 1 set

Need to hear from:

Hammerthumb
MNCLone
SASMith
John2005
Kornell
Kay Bee
Martel


----------



## AgentTwitch

Slackers…


----------



## sepeck

This is exciting. The suspense! The Drama!

Bah, went to bed early last night. Need to work on test handle two tonight.


----------



## jeffswildwood

OK, check is in the mail, I completed sign up, one last thing to do-learn how to make a screwdriver!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Sent via PayPal Jimmy. Added a little extra for ya. ;-)


----------



## Hammerthumb

> Slackers…
> 
> - AgentTwitch


I know! Damn work getting in the way of fun.


----------



## jeffswildwood

I agree, work does get in the way of woodworking. I think I'll just retire. (In jan that is).


----------



## jmartel

Just sent money for 2 sets.


----------



## KayBee

Money sent for 2 sets.


----------



## waho6o9

Hammerthumb
MNCLone
SASMith

Kornell
Kay Bee
Martel

Thank you Folks ^^ Paypal verified.

$861.03 in the kitty.


----------



## jmartel

Time for some blackjack and hookers.


----------



## Mosquito

Next thing you know Waho is bragin' about some new LN planes lol


----------



## waho6o9

LOL 2 funny


----------



## TheFridge

> Time for some blackjack and hookers.
> 
> - jmartel





> Next thing you know Waho is bragin about some new LN planes lol
> 
> - Mosquito


Why not both


----------



## marshallLaw

Please add me to the list.


----------



## JayT

> Time for some blackjack and hookers.
> 
> - jmartel
> 
> Next thing you know Waho is bragin about some new LN planes lol
> 
> - Mosquito
> 
> Why not both
> 
> - TheFridge


'Cuz if he buys the LN planes, that means a very cheap hooker. Man shouldn't have to make that kind of choice.


----------



## waho6o9

You're a wise man JayT

65 sets are in the works, I think 3 sets are not needed and we have a couple of extra sets.

Game on


----------



## ToddJB

I think a couple fellas offered to absorb extras.


----------



## waho6o9

& we'll have some for new arrivals as well.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

ya, I regretted only ordering two, I'll take another one or two if there's extras.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Now I just need to order several sets of these. Swap complete.


----------



## DLK

You can make sexier handles then those.


----------



## sepeck

I can find a home for another set or two just fine . Just let me know.


----------



## Hammerthumb

> Time for some blackjack and hookers.
> 
> - jmartel


You in town Jmart?


----------



## DLK

> Time for some blackjack and hookers.
> 
> - jmartel
> 
> You in town Jmart?
> 
> - Hammerthumb


LOL. As a former card counter, I can tell you $800 ain't enough to play blackjack
with a small enough risk of ruin to turn a profit. Better take up low stakes poker.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'm too bogged down to join this swap. When I do turn another set of drivers, I'll imitate the Studley handle. These feel great to my hand.


----------



## bondogaposis

Red neck forge.


----------



## Mosquito

I like it!


----------



## TheFridge

I see your *********************************** forge, and raise you a cajun shop heater.









Note to self: if it falls over (it did once) shavings can light like a match (they did) then blow everywhere (yes again)


----------



## ToddJB

Haha. I had two shop fires the other day, yes two in one day. I was using the trick of putting alcohol in a dent and then lighting it on fire to pop the dent. Twice I reapplied too quickly and caught my rags on fire. I not so smarts.


----------



## bobasaurus

Nice job Bondo. I have some forging plans of my own  .


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## waho6o9

Up in the and waiting for Kornell, John2005.

Please advise if you're not on the paid list:

ShaneA for 2
ToddJB for 3
Martel for 3
Sepeck for 4
AgentTwitch for 4

KayBee for 2
Putty for 2
CL810 for 4
Mos for 3
BRK for 2

Fridge for 1
SASmith for 4
JayT for 3
MNClone for 2
Hammer thumb for 2
Jeffswildwood for 1

HokieKen for 5

Woodcox for 1
Combo for 3
Putty for 2
Waho for 2

55 sets paid for with a little left over for the other LJers that have their plates full.
We won't forget about you but please speak up when time permits.

Waho 
All the Best

Nice work DonW!


----------



## marshallLaw

I want in on this and try my hand at some driver handles


----------



## waho6o9

I have you down for 1 set, correct?

LOL Thanks Putty, just making sure


----------



## putty

You have me down twice. 
Thanks!


----------



## sepeck

> I see your *********************************** forge, and raise you a cajun shop heater.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note to self: if it falls over (it did once) shavings can light like a match (they did) then blow everywhere (yes again)
> 
> - TheFridge


My wife is curious about the after party picture. And if you got a new building out of it.


----------



## TheFridge

Luckily I am spry and was able to put all the flaming shavings out


----------



## DLK

Waho, when the the shanks arrive, could you post their diameters and also the over all width of the projections that keep the shank from rotating. That way I could start on the handles while waiting for the shanks to be in my hands.


----------



## waho6o9

I'll try Combo Prof


----------



## TheFridge

Thank you sir


----------



## DLK

Thanks Waho.


----------



## Mosquito

List in the original post should be up to date, let me know if you're not on there and think you should be, or are there and think you shouldn't!

Just a reminder, today is the last day to register for the swap! I'll give it to end of day (midnight Central Time).


----------



## sepeck

> I m too bogged down to join this swap. When I do turn another set of drivers, I ll imitate the Studley handle. These feel great to my hand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


So, I tried one of these Studley handle shapes in my cheap 4in1 experiment for shapes. My wife didn't like it, but several others have. I like it myself. Limitations with the 4in1 is shank size is pretty big so you can't get to narrow but it's a nice way to play with handle shape cheap and practice. Now have 3 different shapes done… very torn. Hopefully I will get to a 4th shape although I have plenty to choose from already.

I should probably figure out something to do for ferulles.


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## waho6o9

Just as a thank you and per Dans' friendly advice ferrules are included in the sets, I think. LOL

Cats out of the bag now.


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## ToddJB

If your thoughts are correct, that's an awesome gesture.


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## sepeck

> Just as a thank you and per Dans friendly advice ferrules are included in the sets, I think. LOL
> 
> Cats out of the bag now.
> 
> - waho6o9


I am not using a cat for a ferrule wahoo. I don't think I have the right safety equipment to epoxy one to a turning blank. I'll leave that advance stuff to BigRedKnothead.


----------



## waho6o9

LOL


----------



## woodcox

Sweet! I have looked for a source of the longer ferrules if that is what we get. Nice either way. I may have to patronize them for their finished product too.


----------



## Mosquito

I was thinking the same thing woodcox…


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## sepeck

I was considering brass tube stock. Also, need to get time to look at what a local supplier has here as well. Keep in mind McMaster-Carr and Amazon

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-brass-tubing/=11mzis9
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-brass-hollow-tubing/=11mzjhk
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=brass+tubing


----------



## jeffswildwood

Wow. what a nice gesture. Just in time too! I had my credit card out and was heading for lee valley to order. Oh, I have four cats and have tried to attach them. I now have four bald cats.


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## DLK

I live in copper country so I had other plans for ferrules. It is however a nice gesture and I will be sure to use them on other projects.

By the way I think that you use catgut to attach cat ferrules.


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## HokieKen

Awesome if Grace does include the ferrules! I considered ordering some but didn't want to complicate the order or make things more confusing for wahoo.

I made a prototype today with a bit holder to test a shape I have in mind and used a copper pipe coupling from the big box store for the ferrule. Worked fine but I much prefer the steel with steel shafts.


----------



## waho6o9

Dan confirmed the sets with the ferrules!

Hi Jimmy,

The ferrules come to $78.00 so that leaves you with $800.00 / enough for 60 sets of blades. We will be able to ship by end of week.

Thanks,

Dan


----------



## terryR

Wow, nice of Grace! I love their scredrivers.

If anyone doesn't want their set of ferrules, I do. Happy to trade…


----------



## TheFridge

I bought some thick walled brass tubing off eBay awhile back. 5/8" I think? No busting that ferrule.

I found when trying to smooth out the ridges on pez fittings on a lathe that heat would loosen the epoxy I used of the epoxy and not the wood was holding it in place. Had a couple spin loose. Just throwing that info out there.


----------



## HokieKen

> Dan confirmed the sets with the ferrules!
> 
> Hi Jimmy,
> 
> The ferrules come to $78.00 so that leaves you with $800.00 / enough for 60 sets of blades. We will be able to ship by end of week.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dan
> 
> - waho6o9


Great!! Not sure what the $78 is but as long as you do and we're all square then I'm a happy camper


----------



## JayT

Waho, you can send my ferrules to Terry. I've got other plans.


----------



## sepeck

> I bought some thick walled brass tubing off eBay awhile back. 5/8" I think? No busting that ferrule.
> 
> I found when trying to smooth out the ridges on pez fittings on a lathe that heat would loosen the epoxy I used of the epoxy and not the wood was holding it in place. Had a couple spin loose. Just throwing that info out there.
> 
> - TheFridge


Experience is good to hear. I was planning on scoring the heck out of the inside and going for a tight fit. We'll see what I ultimately do but regardless of this project or another, it's something I will do at some point


----------



## waho6o9

No problem JayT


----------



## 7Footer

Jeez this thread is blowing up. Am I too late or you say there's still some sets available?


----------



## DLK

> I bought some thick walled brass tubing off eBay awhile back. 5/8" I think? No busting that ferrule.
> 
> I found when trying to smooth out the ridges on pez fittings on a lathe that heat would loosen the epoxy I used of the epoxy and not the wood was holding it in place. Had a couple spin loose. Just throwing that info out there.
> 
> - TheFridge


Whats a pez fitting?


----------



## HokieKen

> I bought some thick walled brass tubing off eBay awhile back. 5/8" I think? No busting that ferrule.
> 
> I found when trying to smooth out the ridges on pez fittings on a lathe that heat would loosen the epoxy I used of the epoxy and not the wood was holding it in place. Had a couple spin loose. Just throwing that info out there.
> 
> - TheFridge
> 
> Whats a pez fitting?
> 
> - Combo Prof


One that spits out little white candy. There are also pex fittings that are brass plumbing fittings that would probably be more appropriate for a ferrule ;P


----------



## DLK

When I searched it did correct pez fittings to pex fittings, but… what do I know… maybe Fridge does use fittings dispensed by:


----------



## TheFridge

That's like… Not cool man…

You just ate the most acid I've ever seen in my life…

Edit: I won't lie. I held onto a chewbacca pez dispenser for many years longer than I should have.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, JayT. I don't want them for this swap, but have wanted some for other ideas…


----------



## JayT

No problem, terry. They weren't going to be used for the screwdrivers and since I do hardly any turning, figured the ferrules were better off in the hands of someone who would actually use them for something. By the time I needed them, they would have gotten lost or thrown away.


----------



## HokieKen

> That s like… Not cool man…
> 
> You just ate the most acid I ve ever seen in my life…
> 
> Edit: I won t lie. I held onto a chewbacca pez dispenser for many years longer than I should have.
> 
> - TheFridge


I still have a Yoda dispenser on my desk. Getting rid of it I won't soon be.


----------



## summerfi

Someone on this thread asked about how you would insert a screwdriver with a flat tang into a handle. I came across this blog post randomly through another thread and thought it was a good idea. It is about knives, but should be just as applicable to screwdrivers.
http://nicwestermann.co.uk/knife-handle-dowel/


----------



## waho6o9

Interesting way of using a dowel to set a knife or screwdriver, thanks Bob!


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks for the article, Bob. If you used a dowel that was the inside diameter of your ferrule then you wouldn't even be able to see it.

I do find it odd though that he didn't want the tang glued into his handle. Is that common for knives? Why?


----------



## DLK

> Thanks for the article, Bob. If you used a dowel that was the inside diameter of your ferrule then you wouldn t even be able to see it.
> 
> I do find it odd though that he didn t want the tang glued into his handle. Is that common for knives? Why?
> 
> - ToddJB


If you use a dowel the *same* diameter and end shaped to fit the ferrule, you would not need to cut a ferrule receiver on the handle. How well would that work in the long run? Would expansion and contraction of the two woods be a problem.


----------



## donwilwol

> Thanks for the article, Bob. If you used a dowel that was the inside diameter of your ferrule then you wouldn t even be able to see it.
> 
> - ToddJB


Part of the objective to having a tang is to keep the handle from splitting. I would suggest making sure the ferrule is larger than the dowel to help tie it all together. If you use a real ferrule and it has a face, it will hide it anyhow. Otherwise just use a dowel of the same kind of wood.


----------



## ToddJB

Good thoughts, Dons. Thanks


----------



## donwilwol

not sure why i typed tang instead of ferrule !


----------



## DLK

> I do find it odd though that he didn t want the tang glued into his handle. Is that common for knives? Why?
> 
> - ToddJB


The "tang" on the knife has a thin but wide rectangular cross section so it is difficult (but I think not impossible) to drill out a cavity to accept it. Hence the clever dowel insertion method. The tang on a chisel has cross section either small diameter round or small diagonal square. Holes for such a tang can be easily drilled or step drilled if there is a taper.


----------



## wormil

> .
> http://nicwestermann.co.uk/knife-handle-dowel/
> 
> - summerfi


Nice idea. Could go a little farther and incorporate dovetails and wedges.


----------



## DLK

How so?


----------



## waho6o9

The sets are ready, the check has been mailed so now it's hurry up and wait time.


----------



## AgentTwitch




----------



## sepeck

> The sets are ready, the check has been mailed so now it s hurry up and wait time.
> 
> - waho6o9


I made three different handle designs, but feedback so far is across the board. /grumble.


----------



## waho6o9

Keep at it Steven something will click.


----------



## MNclone

I'm picking up a lathe this weekend. I started working on blanks earlier this week. Getting exciting!


----------



## 7Footer

Making a couple prototypes this weekend to see what design I like best. Started on 2 handles last night. Funny how hard it is to find a ferrule in stock at a local hardware or tool store, everything is for hoses and plumbing.


----------



## ToddJB

I hear ya, 7. All the ferrules I make are from some sort of plumbing item.


----------



## ShaneA

Some of our local Ace Hardware stores have a little section dedicated to metal hobby type projects and they have aluminum, and brass tubing in various diameters. Since I don't like the brass look, in general, I find the aluminum pretty dang handy. Buy a tube, cut to length on the miter saw and viola.


----------



## 7Footer

Yeah I'm not huge on the brass look either, only works with certain wood combos imo.

I'd like to find a stainless or brushed nickel ferrules.

Funny Shane I went to Fastenal and Ace at lunch, same exact ferrule at Fastenal was 1.09 each, with our work account, it was .59 at Ace… I almost took the ones I bought at fastenal back, but said forget it, thats hwy robbery though for that ugly ass little ferrule, and I'm gonna have to cut it! -Do you just flare the edges of the aluminum yourself or go sans flare? Whats a viola?


----------



## ToddJB

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ecC+5ie1vWoFOTwafX4qQeK29eun21w8bTothmjJWmMMSQq5jcjs7TyG1NFgkfUsEHYv32OvtqWl4DMR6IXW4u6A9x1b971rBwWcb9Xb/fQ/wB+rI2ltyUZGpTqXH9/cihgFG7E+P8AnWeqQfJHsqaPB25y4dfpTxj9alulXAFwqYcB1LujM7GQANcRsoUXtYBj43BrpOTOZxwQ7Fd8Bb1WrGU04GGa3yT4On7a3XAStoqE+BB9xqHZdDorYahazltzp0eGTD+Rl9SMfcKa42KSPV4pFFgblCBqNNSKlRb4InkhDdm1q0NNfhnj7K2WanRIr8RB8MWNbR0iHvSymjRKmmL3o/ZWt63RcxCjckAes2rijrqoaYjGFNvSvcd1tQfbXYfIJ0hMz4xZSqszRyC3mgls4YAX7bVxzFYLMwsb3DH8lmX7quXkTx5g4kEIJWaNkICltQQVJtyGpJ7L1qhFJHl6jK5zaPS96K0S9he17a22rFWlBAdIemeFwvWI0qmZFv1ahmYEi65soOUHTXsNcL6acXnxNpJ0McrsGa0doiipaDKHJbMM8pzC1ww7rXvyj9DMVLiMRi06vqRGGN5CHtGozaZe46A1y/i8HmROI3COpVW60HOyWDkA2KgXAtbmNaolKXVRrx44dN3uXTov5Zhh0gw82HPUwwLGXQ5pWMaBVIUkAXIB1NNsR06jbio4hEjlQpASRlUedGsd7gtta+g9dc9w3C8TiHWGKB3fVlAU5iBqbE6WtrpUjJwHGQWSWDEIVJNjG9rECxuARbSrJXRTBJypo6LxXyqSzQywtFCFkjaNiGfMA4KnS1hYHmaiOivTSTAxyRQmKzyFzmDO1yANMthyFVKbBMGfcXJtct47Zd/bW8OGYO19b6261gLbjzclgNudVJpv4jQ4VxA6JB5UsYNL4drDziY5b3va3mKR28hS58p2MI0+Cg/7nEn7LD31RMG6gm7IuY7NNiRsbn+LRra8qe505vB+fxY/SgFW38jHJO99i0Dyk8QPyoT9HBTH3zCmuI6e8SP8s6fQwC/rymoDrk5Phj/4/L+natWnHzYD4cTw33yUtnJMjppxP+lYs+GDw4/UNJy9J+JNqZ+IfVijX9GKoyNQ+0URPYvEcMx9gYmlTwuQ/gch+jiI29yGlsDscd4h/OcSPrI90VNZcTi31P8ACJ/rph7oxWo4S5/Ap/zg/wAOaw3BG54LEflX/wDi1G4MMmIPpJjT9LETH3imsvCg/pYV/rzt97CnB4aR+B4r1E/4OtPgX+yYsfW//HSwhueCqBb4Lh7fj4h7fZi1rCcMQbYXAA/95P6+PIpyYAPwfEj+sX78LWt4xvHMPGWP/DilgEjYDROHr9fBP/7kzVkQPf0sB+Tw0+5TQuKgG/Wjxmj/AOUKXXF4c/Kk/OxH+zqUSZgWYbYjDL9E4UfoJTtOvH4XD6nX9VabR4uD50v5cR/UpVpoeTS/lRn7qWQLdVOTf4Uvqdx+itJthcQT/rjfn57/AKNZjkiPypf/AE6FhiJ9Kb8mP9tBZiXhsp3xTk98k5/VpjLwZj6Uw9fXn+zqVmEfN5/yIz+vTSVov5yf83H/AMyhBMeT/o7g3GIMrJIwmUC2cZQUF1s6C/be3OrY3Q/A/JjiGncTbl2Hs27K5KnEUimkVJ8WhZlLARoBfKANROOVOv4ZPLFYv1Df2Yi2lU5Mqi6aPQwaeU42mXx+iWFvp1QIA1tzF78yDWj8JhV8gcXsDovLUb2t286o6cZI/CsV60B9v+k0i2NRiScTOSb3PUi58bYiqXk/g1x001y2T/E+FYRY3HW2YaCwLEE+ibZx2i+1RflGVGjwDFyAYmynq9wEgtpn00sdzvUW0MJGs0p8cOvf/tFSflDgUQ4BWZhlRwPiwWJCYfcdZYaW5nemN+Y4zw6UlbZVBBGLfG3+of21v1EZ061ACeaP9y1iKOP5z/ml/v0oqRdstvooP1qlvcvhF0ZHDoeWLiHhFOPdHTqeAOiqvElC9WVKsMUIyLkG5MeUA6DWm6/Bua4g/WjH6ppriZsOAQIsR6J3xEYG4vp8H2vbnV2N7mPVxqNkIEFGWtlvzrNXHm2a3I51sJ2HZWLX218K3XDueXtqHXcsj7x/DZn4W3YPbW8PEHVgygXG2+/b99aHDN2rWhgbkbnuFQuk6l71Lck+ByELMx+THlH9YdfvqV6A8bTB8QhmkzZBnRsoDEdYpUG3MAkEjsFReDwTCF7nzmIJH0dvfUl0B4MmM4jh8PLfIzOWtvZEeS3dcqBfvrsou2eqo5AwBGoIBB7jqKKzHGFAA0AFgO4aAVih0butxY61zTpf5Lzi5y8UkEUJt8X1RuDazlcrADNoT3qK6bRRqyU2uBhwvhccEaIiKMiKtwoBOUBb6fvrUX5QJ+r4dizr/EONASdRYbeNWOuaeXMOcJCA7ojTEPlYjN8W5VWsRcXB0qSGb+RF0k4fItr2xMoYMulmykDUWIy9lSflFihwvC5kREjViiKqJYZnkXQBRz1qA8i0RU4hFLdUqx2FyRnJclvpEAXPPSoXy5cfxCzjCh2WAxIxVQBnJZicxIvYFUsBbneoFlv8i7q/DFtY2nnB02vIWA9hHtq+dWOweyuJeQfjc5xD4S5OHELyBSPQfOuzb+dmc2N9tNq7hUgTMKndR7BSLcOiO8UZ8UX9lOqKAYScEwzb4eE+MSH7qbv0XwR3weGP9RH/AHal6KAr56EcO/oOE/MR/wB2tR0F4cNsHhx9GMD3VYqKAr3/APEYD+jIPAsPc1aSdB8Ef5Ij6Msg9z1ZKwaA4h0p4N1HEeqjbEdUYs6IMRKBdRGCCc2YC5J0Ivfeo/Go63Cy4iMix0xOIvY/Se3+dXTyqQlJcNMBtIl/AHI42P8AOo31KqfE4vjGAsBfTa2/K3fXn6mco3TPV0mLHNK0RZmxA1GLxP55j7zWv8IYnb4XPtsWB7uYNLsnba/rrSw79jasC1GRdzf4TD/yhJcfiP6Q3rjjbu+UhpN8XMd5I28cNhz74qcFLW1GnePVWmU/vc+uu1qcnzHg8P8AyIjESbHqP/KYf7o6y2NcadVgz44aMe4Clkwzm+VHP0QT7gan+FdEGkAZ7qL7WseXaathlyzezKsmn00F5kVQ417gdTgyTsBDbX8oU7iwmJbbA4Zu4RN2XGqzCuqcL6ORwAWue/T9/wDKjGzixXOgGmudc2hudvAd9boqaXmZgksLdQj9zl2K4TKl3bh8Y71E4JsL/JxPZY+uo2SZAdcLFvb08Tv2f6xXTJuMQp5pyOVNgCb256ENe57NhrUfiOkai9oo/A35XHzvfVU5K+fQvw2lXT6v8lAmxsC+nhQNL6YiVdO3z81JYXH4aUSFcPOAigt/pK3ysyoCM+GPymXTfU9hqy8a46JYynURqQ6uMwOUtGQQpsb5TqLg7kHlTHB9NYQx6zCiJ2AzZVLXIBsdTrvv3mkYxcfmTPLJTXZf29/UiTicOR/F4n1YmL/CVL9O8ZBNHg5F6xkKyZbOoYFRDGcxMZ180chsdwRTyXjOBl1ZYgdNWRl0ue2/jTT+D8FMbxyIGPJZl5DQHPbl2USaJlkxzq7+tlZili5ROfpzXHsWJffSqYpF1+DxHuLTH+2FSuP6NlD5qsL7Zg+UjU3BKC48L771CTYYrowtXErTNOPokthz/Cn+z4X1xE/aXNNcVxKTXJFhluPSSCMMO2xINvGtRHetSpBtUxySRGTSwmqIsYRta3XBDmb1Iac96wUtXTyyKo6PFHsNlhAGlNp5iNBUkw02OtRGNFnYdhy+zQ/beu8Xme5RrJ+7ilHuIEk05gam9PMLFetJ5Dd8kjBIbVYPJhgWk4xCFaRMqyOWjIBACEWOYEZSSFOnyqhkwpAvV98iWCz4+Z7nzMIF0/7R/wD6VJC5O6UVhUsAOzvoqTs3ooooAplxbhUOKjMU8ayRkglW7RsRzBHaKe0UBHcF4JBhE6vDxhFJudSSTtcliSdNNTUb0u6F4XiIT4QrZkvkdGKsAdx2EdxFWOigK50R6G4bhqsMOrZntnd2zOQNhfYDUmw7asdFFAFFFFAFFFFAFFFFAFFFFAV/pxwkYnCSJa5Ckgc7WIYDvyk27wK4qGbIMw85SUfld0tmP1hlcfSr0Q1cn6bcB+CzNIFJw82jZfSQqcwK8rrbbnGT8ysmpx9SN2izdEqZT3BPZ21hNN9ac43CmNgrW/FIa4IO1iNCD202YG9wNtrWG3Zrt3140otOme9GSatG2YeHfe+vs3qZ4bwoPe9wNNbFfUARqTcAEW51CJe/pMPb6xob1J8MxhVgczm2oW72v28watwqPVuV5urp8pcOC9GI0N2UE7m5Hs25a7GpnFY+HDjKWQW3uw0vyt+2oGLpQQturAOtrZvt1/e1UXjWPkkkZiWFzsGa3dYcq9GWaGOPlPPhp55pec6eMaZD8W6m/MOh9x+yqx0j4RO1z1gI/GYAe+qH8KkGzuAOxmH61b4KB5nCZ976udBudapln69qNEdJ7vzdXoPsRwto9WeBfGdB7ze1JvwpSMxxGGA12lzfaqm9Xfot0DSaNJbKsZAIZlzvJYn4wKbLGCdtCbW0FWdvJ5hmuGaQ3JJ1ABJ1JNhrc61MdM3vXqUT1sE6v0OPjh6W0xWE9c9v0lpUcBkk9DqZR+JLEw8Rdhp310/F+S/CuBZnuNs3nDXwIPsIqEx3kfUjzZAdNN094kuPZVqwtdvU48VjfL9CnP0fkVb9RKQOcY6wePmE6VG4nDKPNMbHtDKVPfuPuqy4vybY7DedBI+nNLqfUY3Jt9UUyw/SvHYRurxkazLqAZrE9tllAJJ12OtuypUK5sjyS+Gn6CfCeCvlvh3eK5vkZWjUnTUkZo2Pe1uVNp4s+ZJI7SJ6S5badoUbHvFwQQRUr0p6cukcbYJFBY+eSC2XLaylb8/DS3fUdxSd8c6zvD8HIw4j1uTKS3nBRYFYwCxBa5uAL8h1KKq7KoNxnVUVeWAqdQdN8yka0my09xeHjU6N4gC9N8vd7qzPk9iLtGhj0oA0t+/vpVbdorV/Ead4+6udyWhInVfpD2XF+dV8te5O519Z1qflFx66gCK2afhnje0l5omVqW4VHdqiBVi6MxZmA7a0HmMm8ZhrRg10nyFcNKw4nEH+VmEa/RhFj/xs4+rVW4xgSIVCgF2Kqi9ruQqL62IrsvRjg4wmFhw4N+rjAY/Obd29bEn11KJSJSis0VJ0FFFFAFFFFAFFFFAFFFFAFFFFAFFFFAFFFFAFFFFAFIY3CrKhRxdTuPDUEdhBsQeRFL0UasHLuN9GHwwYZWlwxuwykLJGb3uvyV53U2U73T0TVl4OZSRh2EhAzGNhlmA2ByEXK3vrseRrvOWoXifRjDz+lGAQ2YWAsG3zAEWDX1zCx03rLk00ZG3FrJQOJz4CWO+ZGW1r3Gn7KbG45FfWR291dkbonIotHi5lGvpMXOvfIXPstSMfRbFD8MbxyJfXv6u9/XWV6Np7X6fk2r2gq3r1/ByyLDSy6RxTyN2qrEe21aQ8FkYkExJb0gXzuB9CIMb+yusDoTnv1+IllB3DFmU/VdmQepRUth+jGGUAGMPbYOcyg9yHzF9QFdx0f6/8/JXL2jXH79fwchw3AITt8IntuI1WNQfrXf2qKbT4FIyAkc6SKxusgBBUoQCCBYsLnTzdjvau/RxhQAAABsBoB7KacU4RDiABMgexuNwR26jWx5jnV3hqW1fQz+Nk3vdf3/hD+Tnii4nh2HZbXRBE4HJ4vMYfZfwIqzUlh8OqKFRQqqLKqiwA7ABtStazCwotRRQGCKg+lHRqLGxOjgBmGjW1uNVzfOF/Zra1TtNOKYoxQySBcxRGYC9r5Rfc7VDVkptPY8u4mFoZZIWuGRmXQ/NJUjvsQaVjx7rbKbW20F/339tOpOGz4zESGCNpmJ87IrEZiSZGJA81S+a2axIA01o4n0ZxmHF5oGVe0g++1vVevPlBo9/Hmg1UiOd8xubAne2m9ZYHv9mlJK2v3HQ0qo7dKpd9zTGS7GN+37a1EVzsb0tkHbWCLdlR1EiDQ9xv4a1CY6LK5031Hr3HtvU4de0U04nh7qDuR7uY9xrRgyVKn3PP1+Lrha5RCmrF0UxAWQE7AXqvGui+S3ydyY5hNOCmEU94aYj5K6ehvdvUOZG88Ojonk74Y2LkXGyC0Mdxhgflt6LTeA1VfEnsrpgrWKJVAVQAoAAA0AA2AHIVvUnQUUUUAUUUUAUUUUAUUUUAUUUUAUUUUAUUUUAUUUUAUUUUAUUUUAUUUUBiis0UBi1ZoooAooooAooooAooooArBFZooBCDCol8iquZixygC7Hdjbc99KPGCCDYg8jqK3ooCkdJfJrhcSCUAiftA82/hcW8RauXca8n+NwxJymRdfOUFlt3lRmHrFeiDWLVVLFFmjHqskO55TdCvpCx5g30PiBahgRqRp4j7jXpziHBsPP/ABsEUn0kUn1Ei4qJfoHgD+DgeDuPc1UPTGuPtDbdHnOQ7WBN+zX3f5074ZwHE4lssUTlu5b+s8l9dq9C4XoTgEtbDRn6d3HsYkVPQQKihUVVUbBQAB6hXUcDOJ65tUkcm6H+RyNWEuOKuf5lfQ+sb6/RGnea61DEEUKoCqBYACwAGwA5Ct7VmtKVGBuwoooqSAooooD/2Q==


----------



## 7Footer

Lol, thanks for the clarification Toddwick.


----------



## DLK

Eh bien. voila une viola!


----------



## ShaneA

Apparently my french sucks, but my band knowledge is top notch. So I have that going for me.


----------



## sepeck

> Keep at it Steven something will click.
> 
> - waho6o9


Oh they liked them, but they all had different preferences. I was hoping for a more universal favorite.


----------



## donwilwol

> I hear ya, 7. All the ferrules I make are from some sort of plumbing item.
> 
> - ToddJB


Same here Todd. I find the copper pipe connectors work well cut in half. I also like the look of copper. It looks good polished and it gains a nice patina.


----------



## Ripthorn

Teaser:



Oh wait, nope, that is just what I was working on in between working on my swap item. I am about half way done with mine, really happy with how it's coming so far. Just need a package to come in to get it finished off.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Brian, I Hope I get one of your infill screwdrivers during this swap. Sure looks sweet


----------



## PAchemist

I've got a bunch of stuff going on here at home, so I'm going to have to drop out of the Screwdriver swap. Please remove my name from the list.


----------



## terryR

I finally ordered steel to make my drivers.
Need to get busy…


----------



## AgentTwitch

So I forgot we were making screw drivers (not really) and have been making some saws (dont ask) and I too need to get busy.


----------



## sepeck

> So I forgot we were making screw drivers (not really) and have been making some saws (dont ask) and I too need to get busy.
> 
> - AgentTwitch


I can be your swap recipient and will proudly call whatever it is a screwdriver.


----------



## AgentTwitch

LOL, thanks Steven.


----------



## clieb91

Ouch already 10 days gone.. I need to get started. Just to make sure I did not miss it do we know who is swapping with who yet?

CtL


----------



## DLK

> Ouch already 10 days gone.. I need to get started. Just to make sure I did not miss it do we know who is swapping with who yet?
> 
> CtL
> 
> - clieb91


We haven't even got the grace screwdriver shanks.


----------



## Mosquito

Not yet. I'll wait until we get progress pictures to know who's officially in and who's not


----------



## waho6o9

The drivers came in today and the majority of them have been shipped, with about half a dozen

left to be shipped tomorrow as I ran out of time.

KayBee please send me your address, Thank you.

The geese fly high.

TerryR please PM your address to me so I can send your the ferrules from JayT

Dimensions will be available either tonight or tomorrow.

Waho
All the Best


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks again for handling all this Wahoo!


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah bud. Thanks. I hope you had enough left over for something sweet.


----------



## AgentTwitch

No more excuses, AgentTwitch. Unpack your lathe and start turning!


----------



## waho6o9

L Jers rock!


----------



## DLK

Waho thanks you for all your efforts.
If you can send the tracking number I would appreciate it. It helps me track it down when it gets delivered elsewhere.
But if you can't thats O.K.


----------



## putty

Thanks for doing this Waho!!!


----------



## Ripthorn

I got some drill rod in the mail today. Time to start milling some stuff!


----------



## AgentTwitch

+1 for Waho being awesome!

I think I have settled on the handle making material for this swap. Pretty excited to start bandsawing some blanks up.


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks Waho


----------



## waho6o9

You'e welcome folks, enjoy the day!

The last 6 will be mailed this morning.


----------



## waho6o9

The fins from the end of the Phillips drivers are about 1/4" in distance and

are about 7/16" wide for the large one, 3/8" wide for the middle one, and

about 1/4" wide for the small one. Very good quality as they look the money.


----------



## ToddJB

Cool, thanks, Waho!

Have we discussed installing these yet? Is it as simple as drilling to the shank size and pushing it in, or should you oversize slightly for the wings?

I was thinking leather over machine vise jaws and beating the handle on. Other ideas? Do you think you could pull it out after you beat it in to then add epoxy, or should you epoxy and beat in on one go?


----------



## Mosquito

there's also the option of heating it red hot and burning it on too… that sounds fun lol


----------



## ToddJB

That's true, Mos. What do you think about glue, or no glue needed?


----------



## HokieKen

I have burned hex shanks into undersized holes on a couple of prototypes I've been working on. It works great and is as tight a fit as your going to get. My plan, at least initially, is to drill the hole the size of the shank and then heat it up (you don't have to get it red hot, 10-20 seconds with a propane torch will do it) and let it burn it's own path. Just don't force it, get it hot press it in until it won't go any further, pull it out and repeat until you get to full depth. Any hammering will most likely split your handle… ask me how I know. Once you get to depth, pull it out, add epoxy and press it back in.


----------



## Mosquito

^ That seems like solid advice to me.

Todd, RE: Epoxy vs no Epoxy, I'm personally not sure. I have one that's not glued in, but the handle was hit with a hammer quite a few times, and had split, so I glued the handle back together, and glued the shank in the process.

I'm still not sure if I'm going to use the Grace shanks for the swap items or not yet… still playing with ideas at this point.


----------



## DLK

I built a little saw from a jigsaw blade that I will use to cut a kerf for the fins, but maybe I'll try burning.

How deep should the shanks be set?

Waho, can you measure the diameter of the shanks? If you can't then I can wait.

Are the flat tips all 1/4" square? If so that throws a monkey wrench into my screwdriver plan. I think will have to adopt the burn in method.

I have read about screwdrivers made both ways: glue or no glue. The no glue approach has the advantage that it would be easier to change out that handle should you desire.


----------



## ToddJB

Kenny, is the press and pulling all hand power?


----------



## HokieKen

I'll be using epoxy. It distributes the torsional sheer force over a larger area if the shafts are bonded to the wood. With no epoxy, the wings will either split the handle or wear a groove and get sloppy quicker. At least that's my theory…



> I built a little saw from a jigsaw blade that I will use to cut a kerf for the fins, but maybe I ll try burning.
> 
> How deep should the shanks be set?
> 
> Waho, can you measure the diameter of the shanks? If you can t then I can wait.
> 
> Are the flat tips all 1/4" square? If so that throws a monkey wrench into my screwdriver plan. I think will have to adopt the burn in method.
> 
> I have read about screwdrivers made both ways: glue or no glue. The no glue approach has the advantage that it would be easier to change out that handle should you desire.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Burning a 1/4" square shank into a 1/4" hole would be pretty effortless. I'd definitely recommend trying the burn in method, I think you'll love it and it will give about as perfect a fit as you can get.

I was wondering about the set depth of the shafts myself. I guess it's really a matter of personal preference. I'm thinking 3-1/2" on the long shafts and around 2 or 2-1/2 on the short ones.


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny, is the press and pulling all hand power?
> 
> - ToddJB


Yep, I clamped the shafts between soft jaws in a machinist's vise and heated and then pressed the handles on. That was 5/16" hex shafts in 5/16 holes. With the wings, I don't know… it may require a little tapping since it will have to burn out more of the wood. I'll be experimenting on some scrap when the shafts arrive before taking a chance on screwing up a handle I put effort into. I'll let everyone know what I find out.


----------



## waho6o9

Well, according to my Etalons the diameters are:

.310
.250
.190


----------



## DLK

I built a little saw from a jigsaw blade that I will use to cut a kerf for the fins, but maybe I'll try burning.

How deep should the shanks be set?

Waho, can you measure the diameter of the shanks? If you can't then I can wait.

Are the flat tips all 1/4" square? If so that throws a monkey wrench into my screwdriver plan. I think will have to adopt the burn in method.



> Well, according to my Etalons the diameters are:
> 
> .310
> .250
> .190
> 
> 
> 
> - waho6o9


I'm guessing they are 5/16, 4/16, and 3/16.


----------



## waho6o9

Couldn't really tell with my tape measure but

5/16

1/4

3/16 should get you in the ball park.


----------



## ToddJB

Great info, thanks, Kenny


----------



## MNclone

I've turned a couple test handles and it went alright, but I'm realizing that I don't have much skill on the lathe. Anyone have some good websites or videos to direct me towards?


----------



## Ripthorn

Me and the milling machine spent some quality time today, along with some tool steel. A couple hours later, I have three sets of what I plan on sending that turned out really well. I am very happy with them. I made a set for the swap, one for me, and one for my brother. A little heat treating, a little epoxy, and we should be done! I was going to post a teaser of all the steel chips on the mill after I was done, but it was late enough that I just wanted to get the machine cleaned and get inside. Oh well…


----------



## HokieKen

Way to go Brian. I bought shafts. You machined your own and are still ahead of the curve! Guess I better get on the ball. I have made a few prototype handles to evaluate different geometries. I liked 2 well enough to install bit holders and give them a little real world testing. I've got my wood picked out and have almost settled on the handle design. For me, nailing down a design I like is usually at least half the battle!


----------



## bobasaurus

Nice job, Brian. Did you make some flatheads?


----------



## DLK

I finally have the parts to start making screwdrivers:


----------



## HokieKen

> I ve turned a couple test handles and it went alright, but I m realizing that I don t have much skill on the lathe. Anyone have some good websites or videos to direct me towards?
> 
> - MNclone


Search "as the wood turns" on YouTube. I've found his videos very helpful because he has 2 cameras, 1 over the lathe pointed down and another from his point of view. It lets you clearly see the angle he presents the tool to the wood and how he holds the tool. He has two videos of turning screwdriver handles that might be particularly relevant.


----------



## AgentTwitch

I am pretty stoked to begin the project. A friend from work handed me some gorgeous lumber that I want to use for the handles and I picked up some local tiger maple for some part of the swap.

I posted this in the Modern American Hand Tool forum, but had to share here as well. Does this count as a progress pic, Mos? 

This is still in the rough


----------



## Ripthorn

> Nice job, Brian. Did you make some flatheads?
> 
> - bobasaurus


Come, now! That would be spoiling the surprise. Suffice it to say that both the mill and the metal lathe were used last night. I'll see if I can get a teaser shot at some point.


----------



## CL810

Got 'em - thanks Jimmy!


----------



## ToddJB

Ew-lala!

Is the black a coating or do the flat heads have some sort of insert for their tips?


----------



## jmartel

Those look nice. Now I just need to figure out how to install them.


----------



## CL810

The black is a coating and the tips are ground. Didn't realize only the Phillips have "wings." The flat heads have square shanks.


----------



## CL810

These shanks are keeping me from doing anything productive today. Can't stop thinking about them. My advice is to NOT open the package until you have shop time available. ;-)


----------



## ToddJB

You think the coat is just for rust protection?


----------



## DLK

> You think the coat is just for rust protection?
> 
> - ToddJB


The real questions should we wire wheel and polish the shanks.


----------



## ToddJB

That's effectively what I'm getting at, yes. I'm so transparent.


----------



## HokieKen

No way I would remove the black oxide coat. It's great rust protection and it's dead sexy!



> You think the coat is just for rust protection?
> 
> - ToddJB


That and appearance are the only real uses for the black oxide conversion treatment. It's fairly hard, but it's not very thick so I'm sure the shafts were hardened and polished before the treatment.

I'm sure the tips on the flat heads were ground after the black oxide to ensure they aren't too "fat" after the treatment.


----------



## sepeck

I just won a $50 gift certificate to a local mill. I thought I had known what wood I was going to use. Now I need to go spend my certificate and see if something else appeals to me more. He had a slab a day give a way. Didn't win a slab but I will be happy with what I won  https://www.facebook.com/millersmilling/ (Oh, if you are in the Sacramento, CA area, check him out. Good prices and pretty wood. If you tell him I sent you he will have no idea who I am 

I still haven't completely decided on which of the three handle designs I've tested so far, leaning towards one. May try one more design tonight/tomorrow.


----------



## wormil

*I strongly recommend against burning in the handle.* Grace screwdrivers are tool steel and if you get the shank hot enough to burn into a handle, it will lose temper. It will still work as a screwdriver probably, but you've taken the quality out. Someone linked to a blog where the guy drilled two holes offset from the center to make allowance for the wings, then drilled the main hole.


----------



## sepeck

> *I strongly recommend against burning in the handle.* Grace screwdrivers are tool steel and if you get the shank hot enough to burn into a handle, it will lose temper. It will still work as a screwdriver probably, but you ve taken the quality out. Someone linked to a blog where the guy drilled two holes offset from the center to make allowance for the wings, then drilled the main hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Rick M.


I think it was here: http://thewayiwood.blogspot.ca/2012/07/screwdriver-handles.html


----------



## 7Footer

Those shanks are dead sexy. Awesome stuff fellas.

You guys have any tricks to ensure you get a straight hole when using a drill press? I probably need to make a jig I made some practice runs last weekend and I was only able to get 2 of the 4 straight. I need an MT1 drill chuck, somehow I ended up with an MT2 chuck, so I can't drill it with my lathe yet…


----------



## HokieKen

> *I strongly recommend against burning in the handle.* Grace screwdrivers are tool steel and if you get the shank hot enough to burn into a handle, it will lose temper. It will still work as a screwdriver probably, but you ve taken the quality out. Someone linked to a blog where the guy drilled two holes offset from the center to make allowance for the wings, then drilled the main hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Rick M.


No worries with annealing the tool steel. You can burn it into most woods (at least white oak and walnut) without heating it above 300 degrees (when the steel starts to take on a brown color). I've been burning them in without changing color at all. You have to get to at least 1400 degrees before you are in danger of affecting the temper (bright red). It's surprising how little you have to heat it to get it to go into the wood. 15-20 seconds with a propane torch and it's hot enough to sink ~1/2" into white oak. I had to anneal a wrench to bend it last week. It took about 15 minutes with propane to get it red hot.


----------



## DLK

I'm using a Stanley 59 with a hand drill.


> Those shanks are dead sexy. Awesome stuff fellas.
> 
> You guys have any tricks to ensure you get a straight hole when using a drill press? I probably need to make a jig I made some practice runs last weekend and I was only able to get 2 of the 4 straight. I need an MT1 drill chuck, somehow I ended up with an MT2 chuck, so I can t drill it with my lathe yet…
> 
> - 7Footer


I'm using a Stanley 59 doweling jig with an electric drill and twist bit and getting good results.


----------



## HokieKen

> Those shanks are dead sexy. Awesome stuff fellas.
> 
> You guys have any tricks to ensure you get a straight hole when using a drill press? I probably need to make a jig I made some practice runs last weekend and I was only able to get 2 of the 4 straight. I need an MT1 drill chuck, somehow I ended up with an MT2 chuck, so I can t drill it with my lathe yet…
> 
> - 7Footer


It's much easier on the lathe, but you can certainly do it on the drill press. What kind of drill are you using and how are you holding the wood? I'd recommend v-blocks or a vise to hold the wood. If you're using a twist drill, it's going to follow the grain. Use a brad point or forstner bit.

The dowel jig is a good idea too if you have one.

To make sure you get the wood straight in your vise, you could try turning a 1/2" tenon on the end of your blank before you turn the handle. Then chuck the tenon into your drill press chuck. Now lower the chuck until the blank is in the vise and tighten it up and bolt the vise down before you unchuck the tenon. Then use a 3/4" forstner to "mill" the tenon off and leave a center. That should give you a pretty dead centered hole as long as your drill doesn't walk.
FWIW, I've never done this, just thinking about what I would do to make sure my drilled hole was concentric to my turned handle.


----------



## ToddJB

7,


----------



## Redoak49

Just to clear something up a bit. Tempering temperatures for O1 can be into the 300 - 500 F region. Heating to anywhere around 1400 F would be a bad idea.


----------



## 7Footer

Damn, you fellas are thinkers! Thank you, I forgot, I actually have that jig favorited, I like your Mod to it Todd.. That idea sounds like it would work too Kenny…. I also have a #59 doweling jig, can't believe I didnt think of that the other day! That might be my best bet, especially since some of the practice handles I made where not fully round and also tapered from top to bottom…

I made this last weekend, it's just dry fit now and still needs sanding, but I didn't have a split nut driver yet and need one. I took a copper end cap and drilled a hole in it so it wrapped around the tenon.


----------



## HokieKen

> Just to clear something up a bit. Tempering temperatures for O1 can be into the 300 - 500 F region. Heating to anywhere around 1400 F would be a bad idea.
> 
> - Redoak49


Yes but I think the concern is the annealing temperature. You can heat to the tempering temperature and not effect the grain structure. It's when you hit the annealing temperature around 1400F that the grain changes and the steel softens. Your right, there is no need to heat anywhere near 1400 F or even 300 F to burn the shafts into the wood.


----------



## HokieKen

That looks nice 7Footer!

If you drill your hole before you turn and use the hole on your center, you can be sure it's concentric with your handle. Drilling after you turn will make getting the hole straight twice as hard. And yeah, that jig is pretty slick!


----------



## Ripthorn

For burning in shanks, even if you get the end to, say, 700 degrees (about spring temper for O1, about 50 HRC), the working end likely wouldn't get above about 200. A really hard temper on O1 is about 350 degrees (60-62 HRC). You are pretty safe to burn shanks in

For centering a hole without a lathe drill chuck, I have turned the handle and attached the ferrule. I then take a block of 8/4 scrap, drill with a forstner a hole just big enough to take the ferrule (a nice press fit works best), but just deep enough to seat about 1/4-1/2". Then drill a hole the same size as for the shank using the center divot from the forstner to center the drill bit. If you have about 1-1 1/2" of length of the hole, and if both holes are drilled from the same side using the drill press, they will be concentric. Then you slip the ferrule in the hole and use a hand drill with the smaller drill bit to drill for the shank. It's not as nice as a lathe drilled hole, but much better than free handing it.

You can also drill a hole in rectangular stock prior to turning. Wood screw clamps are great for this, as they are already pretty square, just make sure to square off the end of the piece that will be grabbed by the drive center.


----------



## putty

I received my sets today Waho. Thank you for doing this!!!

I'm not in the swap but will be watching.


----------



## ShaneA

Got mine too. Thanks again Waho, I appreciate the effort.


----------



## HokieKen

Me too, shafts arrived today. And they are purrrrrdy! Thanks again Wahoo!


----------



## jeffswildwood

Wahoo, the shafts arrived today! Real nice! I am following all these tips on here closely. Bad part, I have to work this week-end. Three twelve hour shifts. Work SO get in the way of my wood working.


----------



## waho6o9

Glad to help out!

Enjoy the weekend Folks.


----------



## wormil

> No worries with annealing the tool steel. You can burn it into most woods (at least white oak and walnut) without heating it above 300 degrees (when the steel starts to take on a brown color). I ve been burning them in without changing color at all. You have to get to at least 1400 degrees before you are in danger of affecting the temper (bright red).
> - HokieKen


Sorry but you are way wrong. It doesn't need to be anywhere near 1400F to affect the temper. Tool steel is tempered around 350-500F. And I said ruin the temper, nothing about annealing. Screwdriver shanks are small pieces of steel. You will never burn one in without getting the working end very hot and if the metal is coated, and pretty much all of them are, you won't be able to see the temperature change. There is no reason to risk ruining a quality Grace screwdriver just to avoid drilling a couple holes.


----------



## jmartel

No shanks for me today. Maybe I'll get them in tomorrow.


----------



## ToddJB

My shanks arrived! Thanks again, Waho


----------



## HokieKen

> Sorry but you are way wrong. It doesn t need to be anywhere near 1400F to affect the temper. Tool steel is tempered around 350-500F. And I said ruin the temper, nothing about annealing. Screwdriver shanks are small pieces of steel. You will never burn one in without getting the working end very hot and if the metal is coated, and pretty much all of them are, you won t be able to see the temperature change. There is no reason to risk ruining a quality Grace screwdriver just to avoid drilling a couple holes.
> 
> - Rick M.


You're right, I did state that wrong. Any temperature above the tempering temp. will affect the temper. Reaching the annealing temperature is only necessary to work it with standard tooling. But, I was correct in stating that you don't need to get anywhere near the tempering temperature to burn the shaft in. And it would be really hard to affect the temper on the business end by heating the "tang" end. FWIW, the black oxide will burn off around 286 F. So, if you burn the coating off you'll know you're approaching the tempering range.

All that being said, anyone not comfortable with it should drill the 3 holes as Rick suggests. I just prefer the perfect fit and cauterization of the severed grain that burning gives. In all truth though, I can't state with any certainty that it will provide any better of a tool ;P. Of course, 3 holes won't help with the square shafts…


----------



## wormil

> ... cauterization of the severed grain …
> - HokieKen


You got me, April Fools, and it would be funny except people are going to try this and ruin the temper on their screwdrivers.


----------



## ToddJB

I'm going to keep my tip wet while my shafts hot.

Like this:


----------



## DLK

> I'm going to keep my tip wet while my shafts hot.
> 
> - ToddJB


You are so lucky that "TheFridge" is not in the swap he would have a field day with this!

But seriously I have to ask would not the mass of the vice act as a big enough heat sink that it would be almost impossible for the tip to get too hot?


----------



## DLK

> ... cauterization of the severed grain …
> - HokieKen
> 
> You got me, April Fools, and it would be funny except people are going to try this and ruin the temper on their screwdrivers.
> 
> - Rick M.


I am getting confused. Will or will not heating ruin the temper. It seems to me that this is a pretty standard method for installing a tanged chisel into a handle.


----------



## DLK

"My" shanks have arrived at our post office, but there was a snow storm last night, so depending on if the city gets around to plowing my dead end street (they often forget) I may or may not get them today.


----------



## HokieKen

> But seriously I have to ask would not the mass of the vice act as a big enough heat sink that it would be almost impossible for the tip to get too hot?
> 
> - Combo Prof


Yes it will. I use jaw liners because it takes much longer to heat the shaft if it's in direct contact with the vise.



> ... cauterization of the severed grain …
> - HokieKen
> 
> You got me, April Fools, and it would be funny except people are going to try this and ruin the temper on their screwdrivers.
> 
> - Rick M.
> 
> I am getting confused. Will or will not heating ruin the temper. It seems to me that this is a pretty standard method for installing a tanged chisel into a handle.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Depends on how hot you get it. IMHO (and based on experience) you don't have to heat it even close to a dangerous temperature to burn it in. But apparently my input is malignant and has the sole purpose of trying to wreck your shafts for my amusement ;P

FWIW, you are correct that this is a well established practice for installing tool handles. I actually didn't make it up.


----------



## terryR

I made about $5 worth of steel wool so far.


----------



## DLK

^ Photos? LOL


----------



## JayT

Shanks showed up today. Thanks for your time and efforts, waho.


----------



## wormil

> Depends on how hot you get it. IMHO (and based on experience) you don t have to heat it even close to a dangerous temperature to burn it in. But apparently my input is malignant and has the sole purpose of trying to wreck your shafts for my amusement ;P
> 
> FWIW, you are correct that this is a well established practice for installing tool handles. I actually didn t make it up.
> 
> - HokieKen


I didn't set out to argue but you painted yourself into a corner- The 1400F number you threw out - factually untrue, you admitted it. The 286F number - factually untrue, black oxides are created near or above that temperature, they don't burn off at that temperature. Cauterizing the grain - doesn't even make sense, wood doesn't work that way. That last one made me believe you were joking. It is clear to me that this you didn't know how metal is tempered so how would you know if you screwed it up. Screwdrivers are a pencil sized piece of metal, hold one in your bare hand and pass it over the torch and see how quickly it heats up. Can it be done, no doubt it can be with the right precautions, but if people are going to risk ruining the temper for so little gain, they should get a proper how-to from someone who knows what they are doing. Not a causal dismissal of the risk from someone telling them they can heat it to 1400F without concern.

I don't want to argue about it anymore. My original point was to warn people they can easily ruin the temper of their screwdriver and it's safer to drill the holes. It would be a shame if people just went for it and a lot of nice Grace screwdrivers were ruined in the process. I recommend if anyone tries it, they pre-drill the hole first so it requires less heat and use plenty of heat sink.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm done arguing as well. With the exception of clarifying that cauterizing simply means to burn or sear. I can say with absolute certainty that I can burn wood.



> I recommend if anyone tries it, they pre-drill the hole first so it requires less heat and use plenty of heat sink.
> 
> - Rick M.


OH DEFINITELY! I think we may have the source of our fundamental disagreement! You absolutely have to drill first. Apologies to all if I didn't make that clear earlier. The heat required to install it without drilling first would be A LOT and would definitely destroy the temper. I'm not even sure you could get it that hot with a torch.


----------



## HokieKen

I experimented with burning one of the grace shafts into a scrap piece of oak. I drilled a 5/16" hole. Then clamped the shaft as shown in pics. I heated the "wing" section for 10 seconds with a propane torch then pressed the wood on. I repeated this process 4 times and went about 1" deep. So if only heating for 10 seconds, you'll gain about 1/4" each time. At no point did the shaft get hot enough that I couldn't touch it next to the vise (about 2" from the section I heated. Hope this is helpful if you're going this route!


----------



## wormil

Looks like we are good then. Did you make those vise jaws? Because I have some scrap Delrin and that looks handy.


----------



## HokieKen

No didn't make those. They're made by columbia. They are great insulators and have good grip. Delrin would make excellent jaw liners but might not have much grip? It's strong and a good insulater though so should work well for isolating stuff from the vise for heating.


----------



## DLK

Trudged through the snow to retrieve the shanks today. Thanks for your efforts Waho they look fantastic. Also a tip of a hat to Grace tools whom I assume packaged them up as little kits. I am suitably impressed. If it was your doing Waho I bow to your greatness. I had assumed they arrive to you in a single box and you would have to spend hours sorting and counting out shanks and ferrules.

Let us send photos to Grace tools when we are done with the build.


----------



## terryR

Don, no photos yet. I've clamped so many different gadgets to my bench, drill press, and lathe that I wish I had taken pics. Although it may give away too much of my build! wishin for a mill…


----------



## DLK

I just wanted a photo of the pile of steel wool. :-]


----------



## AgentTwitch

Cant wait to get home and see if my shanks arrived. Feeling the inspiration!


----------



## putty

I set my shafts on my bench next to a can of paste wax. As I looked at them I thought why not see what the wax does to them. I really enjoyed polishing my shaft and it came out silky smooth instead the chalky feeling from before.

With a well lubed shaft, a good thrust may seat them firmly into the awaiting orifice.


----------



## DLK

Just stop it or we will tell cricket.


----------



## woodcox

I just opened mine. Thanks again to all who made it happen. Grace is the business! I love the grind and ferrules. I think maybe something light colored and snazzy to make those shanks pop.

I noticed my smallest shanks are magnetized.


----------



## KayBee

Just got mine out of the mailbox. Really nice! Waho, thanks for all work in getting this buy to happen. It is appreciated.

Second Don's (combo prof) idea of sending grace pics of the completed builds. Think they'll get a kick out of them.


----------



## DLK

^ and maybe motivate them to put out some kits. I would love to get some Parallel sided and/or cabinet tip flat screw driver shanks


----------



## HokieKen

Best I can tell, these flats are parallel ground. It would be great if they would sell the kits. If these hold up well, I'd like to round out the set with the remaining sizes and get a set of square drivers. Maybe even torx if they make them. All this assuming I can make handles that please me.

If not, I wouldn't hesitate to buy their drivers complete. I'm very happy with the apparent quality and like that their USA made. The nickel steel ferrules are a great bonus too! I really feel like I got these at a steal for $13. Plus shipping and Wahoo's rake of course.


----------



## bearkatwood

I turned a few last year and used copper piping for the ferruls.


----------



## sepeck

Picked up some walnut today. Here it is with some of my handle experiments.


----------



## terryR

Got a bunch of ferrules and a set of drivers in the post yesterday. Thanks waho!

Hey, can anyone re-post waho's paypal address so I can pay my dues. I didn't write it down earlier since I wasn't planning to receive hardware…


----------



## Mosquito

I would be willing to compile a set of pictures to send to Grace once we're all done, assuming we can get finished pictures out of everyone in the swap. I think it would be fun, and a nice way to say thank you.

Other topic, how is everyone feeling about the deadlines now that the Grace shanks have been distributed? Is May 2nd for progress pictures (don't have to be 100% complete, but should probably be close), and the May 18th ship deadline?


----------



## bearkatwood

I think I could HANDLE those dates. ha! punny!


----------



## Ripthorn

I finished mine yesterday, so I am fine with whatever date! Do we just send our photos to the LJ swap email account?


----------



## Mosquito

lol nice Brian (Bearkat).

Brian (Rip), yes. I'll add a note to the original post, but progress pictures will be sent to the LumberJocks.Swaps @ Gmail.com account


----------



## HokieKen

Those dates are fine for me.


----------



## donwilwol

Mine are complete.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Why am I always the slacker….


----------



## bearkatwood

So I need to post a tidbit pic here that doesn't give it away and full pics to the other you mentioned??

Kenny I used to live near Sinks Grove WV and spent a lot of time in Roanoke and Blacksburg. Beautiful area!


----------



## DLK

Finally got my first one made to my liking. Got handle making down pat. Unfortunately my technique for insertion of Grace shanks into the handles will only work for the 5/16 shaft. (The # 3 philips). I think the 3 square shanks won't be an issue. But the other 2 philips I'm not sure how to cut the slots for the wings. I sawed the slots for wings for the 5/16 shaft of the #3 using a jigsaw blade a fixed into a handle. But it won't fit into a 1/4" or smaller hole. So I need another solution. I may try the 3 hole drilling method next. So I can have a 50% done progress picture by May 2. It will be close with my work schedule but I think I can have it 100% done by May 18. A couple of more weeks would be better.


----------



## Mosquito

you can share whatever teasers you want here whenever. I just need a picture of overall progress to the lumberjocks.swaps gmail address by May 2nd before I distribute swap partners shortly after.


----------



## MNclone

Could you grind the back off the blade so it would fit?


----------



## Ripthorn

Teaser!


----------



## DLK

> Could you grind the back off the blade so it would fit?
> 
> - MNclone


Possibly.


----------



## sepeck

> Why am I always the slacker….
> 
> - AgentTwitch


enh.. I'm not done either. I've decided on handle shape, got some spare, neat 4in1s for gifts now and picked up the specific wood I am going to use.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Wow, I guess I am in the slacker group also. I'm still fighting. Have a good design in mind though.


----------



## fatandy2003

I think someone mentioned dovetails way back? In a screwdriver swap? Why not!










This is just a prototype/proof-of-concept so I did not take much time to make the dovetails tight. It worked, so I am moving on to the actual swap pieces.


----------



## DLK

> Could you grind the back off the blade so it would fit?
> 
> - MNclone


That did the trick. Picture of knife below for cutting slots for the shank blades … and a teaser …. three done (except for finish). I may be 100% done on time after all.


----------



## terryR

still making fuzz here.
no solid progress yet.


----------



## jordanp

Crap i missed it didn't i?


----------



## HokieKen

So, I've come to a realization in the last week. While I've been playing around with different handle shapes for the swap, I've also been taking a hard look at which screwdrivers I pick up most often. It turns out that I almost always reach for Craftsman when I need a phillips drive. Now I have a full set of those C-man drivers, flat and phillips, but I don't usually grab the flat drivers from that set. I either grab a perfect handle or a tri-lobe combination driver when I need a flat head.

So why do I prefer that Craftsman set for phillips but not flats? I've decided it's because of the handles. When driving a Phillips, you have to apply some axial force as well as torque. If you only apply torque, the driver will cam out. For a flat head on the other hand, I don't apply much axial force, it's almost entirely torque.

So, for Phillips drivers, I like something I can palm and twist but for flats, I want something wide and not round so I can really turn it with little care as to whether or not my palm rests on the end.

So do you guys like different handles for different drivers or do you have a favorite type handle you like/want on all your drivers? Or, do you think this is just a case of an engineer way overthinking things?


----------



## Frustrator

Is this progress?


----------



## DLK

Hmmm… HokieKen thats a good explanation for the handles I chose to make. A compromise between the two. I.E. you can both palm-twist but still wide enough to apply torque. ( All depending on hand position.) Not an innovation of mine but what I was drawn to. So… maybe not the "case of an engineer way overthinking things" just natural selection.


----------



## ToddJB

I needed some roll pin punches, and seeing the quality of the Grace drivers promoted me to pick up theirs. His customer service and quality are paying off.


----------



## waho6o9

Looks like a quality product, when would you use a roll pin punch?


----------



## ToddJB

Waho, my woodworking toys have an average age of 70 years old. They usually need a lot of work when I get them. Split roll pins, like this










were common fasteners for handles and brackets, when they are affixed to shafts and threaded rods.

Grace's common customers though, I'm sure, are gunsmiths, which split roll pins are very common.


----------



## waho6o9

Cool, thanks Todd.

One of those stupid expansion pins fell out of my bandsaw pulley so I fixed it with something
similar.


----------



## sepeck

> Cool, thanks Todd.
> 
> One of those stupid expansion pins fell out of my bandsaw pulley so I fixed it with something
> similar.
> 
> - waho6o9


Isn't it exciting when parts randomly fall out of power tools?


----------



## wormil

> So do you guys like different handles for different drivers or do you have a favorite type handle you like/want on all your drivers? Or, do you think this is just a case of an engineer way overthinking things?
> 
> - HokieKen


Well I throw away every straight slotted screw I find so I don't use those drivers for much except prying and scraping. 

Generally I prefer something not too round but with a round heel, like the Craftsman screwdrivers. But my go-to screwdrivers are some old yellow handle things with tips that fit just right and don't easily cam out, they aren't branded by the same company although they look similar.

Something like this I guess


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## waho6o9

Nice work Don!


----------



## bearkatwood

Frustrator, that ax head looks like evidence in a crime scene


----------



## HokieKen

> Hmmm… HokieKen thats a good explanation for the handles I chose to make. A compromise between the two. I.E. you can both palm-twist but still wide enough to apply torque. ( All depending on hand position.) Not an innovation of mine but what I was drawn to. So… maybe not the "case of an engineer way overthinking things" just natural selection.
> 
> - Combo Prof


My hang-up is that I can't find a single handle that I really like for both drives. So, I'm leaning towards 2 different handle styles. But my OCD keeps punching me in the throat and screaming "they're a SET, they HAVE to match!" I have one last design for a "universal" handle I'm going to prototype. Then I'm gonna pick a design (or 2) and get to it.



> Well I throw away every straight slotted screw I find so I don t use those drivers for much except prying and scraping.
> 
> Generally I prefer something not too round but with a round heel, like the Craftsman screwdrivers. But my go-to screwdrivers are some old yellow handle things with tips that fit just right and don t easily cam out, they aren t branded by the same company although they look similar.
> 
> - Rick M.


Funny, I prefer flats to phillips. I wish it was the other way around. Phillips drivers aren't worth a crap for prying or scraping. 

The picture you showed is similar to my C-man drivers but mine have a "bulb" on top instead of just being rounded over. I like them for phillips heads but I think I'd like them better without the "flutes" and if they were a little bigger in diameter. They're just not quite right for my short, fat sausage fingers.



> Kenny I used to live near Sinks Grove WV and spent a lot of time in Roanoke and Blacksburg. Beautiful area!
> 
> - bearkatwood


That area of WV is great too. My wife has a lot of family a little further south in Hensley. Love the drive in the spring and fall.


----------



## bearkatwood

We used to call them leaf storms in the fall when it would be so crazy with all the leaves falling that we would have to pull over. We lived near Lewisburg, very beautiful place and a fun town. I used to love the drive to Bekley to go shopping. WV is a very magical state, western Virginia is pretty cool too. I really liked exploring the East coast. Too bad it is so far away now.
You can't open a paint can with a phillips either. 
I wonder if I can find square drive bits for mine??
Gotta go, ebay is calling.


----------



## putty

I like to watch the show Barnwood Builders. They tear down old log cabins and barns and, build new homes out of them. They are based out of Lewisburg WV. The lead guy is Mark Bowe. Do you know him Brian?


----------



## bearkatwood

I never met them, but I heard about them when I was there.


----------



## terryR

Nice, Don.
For driving brass screws and filing them flush?


----------



## DLK

This is my first swap and it sure is fun, but I have a silly question that is driving me crazy.

You design handles for the screw drivers that you really like. So you of course make a duplicate set so that you have tools that you made with handles that you like. You trade one set with someone who of course also made a very nice set of screw drivers and very likely (because we almost all bought the grace shanks) you will then end up with two sets of functionally the same drivers. You want to use the ones your buddy made but you also want to use the ones you made. What do you do with the second set? Will you put it in your traveling tool chest and keep the other at home near your daily work bench?

In the future would it be better to do a half and half swap. Half of us make 2 of X and half of us make 2 of Y and then we trade one X for one Y . Then everybody ends up with an X and a Y.

Incidentally or perhaps most importantly: this has been a learning experience! I now know how to make some tool handles without using a lathe. (I wish had gotten my lathe working, but thats another project.)


----------



## HokieKen

I'm actually not making handles for my drivers for that very reason. If I don't get a set of the Grace drivers, then great, I'll handle mine then. If I do get a set of grace drivers, I'll decide whether I want two sets or not. If I do, then I'll make handles for mine. If I don't, I'll tuck my shafts away until I have a need for them. I think at least some people who bought the Grace drivers may not be using them for the swap.


----------



## donwilwol

Don K, we've done swaps with multiple tools, and you told the moderator what you were making and he matched them up with someone who requested such.

When I did the plane swap you could request the type of plane (if I remember correctly).

It can get real complicated for the moderator, but it adds to the fun.


----------



## DLK

HokieKen, I probably should have gone with my original plan of making "mini-drivers" I still can I supposed I have purchased enough for 5 sets (3 grace and 2 mini's).

Don W, Cool. I'm beginning to have some skill now so maybe I'll participate again in a later swap. I thought screwdrivers would be easy. Little did I know how many hurdles I had to over come. If I was retired I would be in every swap.


----------



## Ripthorn

Here are my thoughts on swaps:

1. A good number of swaps are of items that are not easily made in duplicate: art, planes, etc., but some are. Keeping consistent rules between swaps helps minimize the chaos and the work that one moderator has to deal with.

2. I like to see what other people come up with. Mos made me an awesome marking gauge in the shape of a guitar because noticed I had several guitar projects in my profile. I would have never thought to do that, but he did a great job with it. I have made some stuff a little out of the ordinary for swaps, such as a small infill block plane, that challenged me and were definitely different from some others. Sometimes someone else thinks of something you never would have, but that you really like. Other times it can be a bust, but the fun and camaraderie are the main reward for me.

3. You can never have too many screwdrivers. I am constantly looking for another set over in my metal working area. It's only 25 feet or so from my main bench, but when you are in the middle of an assembly or something, you really don't want to or can't move.

4. Yes, most bought Grace shanks, but not everyone will be sending those as the swap items. Just don't worry about what someone is sending you, you can always use another one. Marking knives, marking gauges, planes, screwdrivers, you can always use another.


----------



## Ripthorn

Don W, I think you should call yours the "File Driver". It's like a wrestling move for your woodworking!


----------



## DLK

Yes Brian "don't worry about what someone is sending you, you can always use another one"... I agree. Its just I really like the ones I made they have some sentiment to them. Just my silly brain over thinking.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm still undecided as to whether or not I'm going to use the grace shanks for the swap or not. Depends on what I can get prototyped in the mean time.

Also, the main point in these swaps isn't necessarily getting an item from someone else; it's making something that you may not have made otherwise and sending it to a fellow enthusiast. Try something new, and push your abilities and boundaries.

That said, who couldn't use an extra set of screwdrivers? I know I'm always robbing my workshop screwdrivers to use elsewhere…

And don't forget the sentiment of getting drivers custom made by a fellow woodworker ;-)


----------



## DLK

> Also, the main point in these swaps isn t necessarily getting an item from someone else; it s making something that you may not have made otherwise and sending it to a fellow enthusiast. Try something new, and push your abilities and boundaries.
> 
> - Mosquito


I certainly agree.


----------



## bearkatwood

Naa! It's totally about getting new stuff 
O.k. and building skills, but mostly NEW STUFF!


----------



## HokieKen

Double post.


----------



## DLK

> Naa! It s totally about getting new stuff
> O.k. and building skills, but mostly NEW STUFF!
> 
> - bearkatwood


This I also agree with! :-]


----------



## HokieKen

This is my first swap as well Don and I m really having fun. I probably would have never taken the time to make handles for my drivers otherwise. But now that I have the swap and a deadline, I'm having a blast doing it. And the fact that it's for another woodworker raises the bar on the level of quality I want out of them. Don t get me wrong, I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what I get from a fellow LJ, but I'm looking forward even more so to sending mine out in the mail and seeing how mine stack up against everyone else's. Not that it's a competition, but I totally want to win ;P


----------



## donwilwol

I would personally like to see more "how its being done" interaction even if it means showing photos of the product. You don't know if it's your product. It not a complaint, I just like to learn other processes.


----------



## DLK

I think the LJ talent amazing. The best trade I've made so far was with Terry who made me both a marking knife and a dovetail knife. These knives have made a positive impact on my woodworking. I also have traded with Don W and although you can marvel at the pictures he posts of plane restores and study his methods, its just not the same as having one in your hands. (I have made some good purchases from others too.) So I do look forward to seeing the screwdrivers I get even if they are of the same type I send out. I will also be interested in reading the inevitable blogs and project posts to see how they did it.


----------



## Mosquito

> I would personally like to see more "how its being done" interaction even if it means showing photos of the product. You don t know if it s your product. It not a complaint, I just like to learn other processes.
> 
> - Don W


I was torn when I volunteered to run the swap because I like that idea too, but at the same time the surprise is kinda fun too…


----------



## sepeck

My first swap I made a marking knife and sent it off. I asked a ton of questions about finishing turned items and learned a lot and made something far better then I could have when I started because I had a goal and thread full of resources.

The next swap I started out making 3 router planes. In the end I had two. I learned the value of test pieces and samples and since one of my test pieces went awry, it was good I spent time on test designs. I made a plane. True it was a simple plane, it works, but I learned a ton and want to do something different and better now.

The 3rd was the art swap, which was different and challenging in different ways.  I thought of 3 different things I could have done to 'improve' my art swap item. That said, my test piece sits on my design area of my workbench and I play with it all the time when thinking of ideas. The item I received lives on the fireplace mantle where my wife and daughter determined it goes.

This one is cool. I have learned a lot about little things I never thought of. How various screwdrivers are handled, how the shanks with wings can be put on handles, I've seen hints of how to make your own blades from some and look forward to their posts where often people write up a more detailed how they did theirs. I've spent far more time working on test handles with 4in1 drivers, so as a bonus, I now have a set of gifts later. The very process of making test items is helping me learn to prototype better for my own future projects. Sometimes I focus on just a specific aspect rather then try and make an entire piece now (i.e. how to duplicate a specific shape).

What I receive from someone? That's a bonus. It's also a challenge. Things to use, learn from and play with. Examples to aspire to. On reveal day I often see things and go "OH, I like that idea/implementation better!"  But it's also this kind of thing we learn from and the surprise helps keep things diverse.

These swap threads are AWESOME resources of information later on and we are getting better at using the forum tags to make the projects more findable later. I am learning how to work better in my shop, it gives me a goal and forces me to stretch myself (grumble art swap grumble . I try and do a write up on how I made my swap items and remember, you can always ask questions.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, DonK.

Sounds like you are volunteering to run the next swap? x-y swap?


----------



## Ripthorn

> Thanks, DonK.
> 
> Sounds like you are volunteering to run the next swap? x-y swap?
> 
> - terryR


It's only his first, Terry! Give him one more before we throw him under the bus .

DonK, you have to be careful in these swaps, or you'll get voluntold for things in a heartbeat. I ran the plane swap last year and, while rewarding, requires some work. But it's all in the name of more tool goodness.


----------



## DLK

> Thanks, DonK.
> 
> Sounds like you are volunteering to run the next swap? x-y swap?
> 
> - terryR
> 
> It s only his first, Terry! Give him one more before we throw him under the bus .
> 
> DonK, you have to be careful in these swaps, or you ll get voluntold for things in a heartbeat. I ran the plane swap last year and, while rewarding, requires some work. But it s all in the name of more tool goodness.
> 
> - Ripthorn


When I retire I will run a swap! :-] Maybe a float making swap!


----------



## jeffswildwood

I agree. The fun of this swap is making something for a fellow wood worker. I too enjoy the learning curve I am in right now. I made my first test piece today that actually looked like a screwdriver.  I am not ashamed to admit I am having a rough time at this. I really challenge myself to make a set worthy of swapping and the deadline seems really close. Giving it my best efforts.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Following the pattern I used earlier today I got another good test. Did some tweaking from the earlier one and came out even better. I think I am on to something now. My hand is sore from filing for the ferrells but a nice fit. That makes it worth it. After so many trial and errors it feels good to finally see screwdrivers instead of something that resembles a "prison shank". A couple more test runs and then get some wood. My neighbor has offered me some hickory and my sawyer some maple. Which would you choose. I have not worked with either wood before. I may take photos of each test to show the recipient of my set the struggles I went through.

Sorry for the long post but I'm a bit proud today.  I have been behind the curve but coming on strong!


----------



## HokieKen

Atta boy Jeff! IMO, Hickory and Maple would both be good choices, especially if it's hard maple. I'd take a look at both and see which is prettiest. I've never worked with Hickory and only with Maple a couple of times. I don't remember having any issues. Of course, I work mostly with White Oak so most other woods seem like a walk in the park to me.


----------



## HokieKen

> After so many trial and errors it feels good to finally see screwdrivers instead of something that resembles a "prison shank".
> 
> - jeffswildwood


I think we have the category for the next swap!


----------



## DLK

> After so many trial and errors it feels good to finally see screwdrivers instead of something that resembles a "prison shank".
> 
> - jeffswildwood
> 
> Beat me to it.
> 
> I think we have the category for the next swap!
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## bearkatwood

Next up is the 2×4 swap, hopefully. I like the prison shank swap too, I know there are some inmates that could get in on that one.


----------



## jeffswildwood

I don't think the prison shank idea would work out too well…..but…..*home made knives* sounds interesting! I know there are several kits available as well as reading comments from wood workers on here with metal experience.


----------



## Ripthorn

I think that a shop made knife swap would be pretty awesome. I have some tool steel that would make a great knife of some sort. I nominate Jeff to moderate!


----------



## bearkatwood

How about something like this? 









I just got done with two new backsaws I did for a video, they turned out nice. A carcass and dovetail with walnut handles and scalloped brass backs.


----------



## HokieKen

Wow! Those are gorgeous saws Brian!

I'd be up for a knife swap. I'd definitely be up for Jeff moderating it . It would be a pretty accessible project that may get people interested that are intimidated by some of the other catagories. You can buy good blades pretty reasonably and it shaping a knife blade from tool steel could be done with just a grinder and a set of files.

I still like the prison shank too…


----------



## DLK

I would be interested in culinary knives.


----------



## jmartel

Knives would be a great one to do. Not a whole lot of wood needed, so it opens up the option to use exotics and super figured stuff.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Brian, you have some skills, my friend! Your saws came out awesome! Love the wood selection and the custom shape of your totes.

Reference next swap: I see that Hock sells cutlery blanks now. I am intrigued…


----------



## terryR

I've always liked the theme-based swaps the best. Like anything used to make DT's. So everyone is making different items, and teasers are more fun.

An x-y swap still sounds good to me. Marking knifes and squares. Make a knife, get a square…


----------



## Ripthorn

I think the teasers/full blown photos thing really depends on the swap theme. Some things are harder for swap participants to get necessary info on while only doing teasers. More complicated projects like planes fall into this category. Simpler stuff, I think teasers are better.

An X-Y swap would be cool, too. Marking knives and squares is a good idea. Chisels and mallets. Not sure what else.


----------



## DLK

Hollows and rounds?


----------



## 7Footer

Lol @ prison shank swap…. I'd be allll over a knife swap, mallets and chisels are always fun, and planes of course.

I'm on a mission to find some special wood for me handles!

Holy cow those saws are impressive Brian. They are both walnut handles, the DT is so different? Also really dig that tool cabinet on your wall.


----------



## bearkatwood

Hey guys, sounds like I have a future subscriber here!!!





View on YouTube

Bring me more watchers!! ha ha ha.. evil laugh. I am secretly brainwashing you all thru my videos to be my slaves. Ha ha ha


----------



## sepeck

> Hey guys, sounds like I have a future subscriber here!!!
> 
> View on YouTube
> 
> Bring me more watchers!! ha ha ha.. evil laugh. I am secretly brainwashing you all thru my videos to be my slaves. Ha ha ha
> 
> - bearkatwood


We'll all just be making kitchen cabinets based on that idea.


----------



## bearkatwood

But you have to show me pictures of the finished projects.


----------



## HokieKen

I started turning a handle this evening and thought I'd snap a teaser pic before it really took too much shape


----------



## waho6o9

Nice work Kenny, I'm guessing walnut ?


----------



## wormil

For Paul Bunyan hands :O <kidding>


----------



## jmartel

> We ll all just be making kitchen cabinets based on that idea.
> 
> - sepeck


Next swap? Kitchen cabinet swaps. Islands can be included as a bonus item.


----------



## HokieKen

> Nice work Kenny, I m guessing walnut ?
> 
> - waho6o9


You're guessing right.



> For Paul Bunyan hands :O
> 
> - Rick M.


Nah, just looks that way 'cause my lathe will fit in my pocket ;P


----------



## waho6o9

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/jThompson/screwdriverRevival/screwdriverRevival-01.asp

I kinda like these handles as they're similar to the ones @ Grace tools:


----------



## bondogaposis

Hey guys, sorry to say I am going to beg out of this swap. I have a big commission I'm working on now that is just eating up all my time. I'm just not going to be able to fit the swap in. Hopefully I'll be able to hit the next one.


----------



## Ripthorn

I'm not a fan of those handles or of the Grace, but that is just my opinion. I like more curves and flowy-ness I guess…


----------



## waho6o9

Great news on the big commission Bondo catch ya on the next swap.

Does that mean Jordan can take your place?

Understandable Brian that's what makes these swaps interesting.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Waho, I dig the contrast from the dark wood to shiny ferrules. Chris Schwarz likes the boxy shape of the Grace drivers for their grip-ability. I also like some of the Victorian style handles that have coves and rounded shapes.


----------



## HokieKen

> http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/jThompson/screwdriverRevival/screwdriverRevival-01.asp
> 
> I kinda like these handles as they re similar to the ones @ Grace tools:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - waho6o9


Did anyone else notice he shows a picture drilling between centers when he's boring for the shaft? (Next-to-last picture on the first page) Am I missing something?


----------



## donwilwol

I'm going to assume the drill chuck is on the live end, and he's holding the handle from Turing by hand. I'm not sure i'd do it that way either, but what do I know.


----------



## HokieKen

> I m going to assume the drill chuck is on the live end, and he s holding the handle from Turing by hand. I m not sure i d do it that way either, but what do I know.
> 
> - Don W


Ahhh.. thanks! That was bugging me. I can't see any good reason to do it that way unless you just don't have a chuck. Not saying there isn't one - James was a smart guy - just saying I don't see it.

Anybody else do it that way and can shed some light?


----------



## jeffswildwood

Just finished two 12 hour shifts and playing catch up. Up at 3:30 am, home at 7:00 pm.

Jeff as moderator of a knife swap? I don't know about that. I feel I have good organizational skills, (after 21 years in the Army National Guard) but I don't know. (Would be fun to try)

Ken, seeing your walnut turning made a light bulb go off! Hickory, maple or walnut. Choices choices.

I am now a bearkatwood fan. What saws! What a nice cabinet!


----------



## wormil

> Ahhh.. thanks! That was bugging me. I can t see any good reason to do it that way unless you just don t have a chuck. Not saying there isn t one - James was a smart guy - just saying I don t see it.
> 
> Anybody else do it that way and can shed some light?
> 
> - HokieKen


This came up in a thread a couple years back, someone was struggling to get holes drilled straight and it was recommended to flip things around and drill from the headstock. I tried it myself and found it easier to keep the bit from wandering. It's like using a drill press except sideways.


----------



## TheFridge

> I m going to keep my tip wet while my shafts hot.
> 
> - ToddJB
> 
> You are so lucky that "TheFridge" is not in the swap he would have a field day with this!
> 
> But seriously I have to ask would not the mass of the vice act as a big enough heat sink that it would be almost impossible for the tip to get too hot?
> 
> - Combo Prof


I'm ready to play "just the tip"


----------



## TheFridge

> Hey guys, sorry to say I am going to beg out of this swap. I have a big * I m working on now that is just eating up all my . I m just not going to be able to fit the ** in. Hopefully I ll be able to hit the next one.
> 
> - bondogaposis


This is what happens when you blank out a couple words.

We forgive you. You gave us the bondo.

THE bondo…


----------



## HokieKen

> This came up in a thread a couple years back, someone was struggling to get holes drilled straight and it was recommended to flip things around and drill from the headstock. I tried it myself and found it easier to keep the bit from wandering. It s like using a drill press except sideways.
> 
> - Rick M.


So you hold the piece with one hand and advance the tailstock quill with a live/dead center with the other? Seems counter-intuitive but now that I think about it, I guess it might allow you to compensate for minor misalignment between the head and tail stocks.


----------



## wormil

In general, the tailstock is super handy for getting anything perfectly centered on the headstock. In theory it shouldn't matter but in practice sometimes one way works better than another. YMMV. I find that drills in the tailstock want to wander, I don't know why but that's my experience. I thought the problem was me or my lathes so I started watching metalworking videos and found they can have the same problem (although in their case it's usually by thousandths of an inch) so they use boring bars for better accuracy. You'll probably get a better answer posing this question to the woodturning forum, there are guys here that have been woodturning as long as I've been alive and I'm no spring chicken.


----------



## HokieKen

I have noticed that as well and just assumed it was the nature of my low-end lathe since there is a little "wiggle" in the tailstock alignment. I've gotten in the habit of barely engaging the tailstock lock and holding the quill with one hand and advancing with the other until I can see the drill starts without deflecting then lock the tailstock down completely. I guess it's still a problem though with better lathes! Unfortunately, my head and tail stocks have different MTs. I won't be buying another drill chuck to try it out but it's good information to have in case I have problems in the future. Thanks!


----------



## ToddJB

Unfortunately, my head and tail stocks have different MTs.

What a pain in the ass that is. That's just dumb.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Todd, any luck removing the black from the screw driver blanks?


----------



## HokieKen

> Unfortunately, my head and tail stocks have different MTs.
> 
> What a pain in the ass that is. That s just dumb.
> 
> - ToddJB


Isn't it?! MT1 in the head and MT2 in the tailstock. Can't even buy spurs and live centers in sets.


----------



## ToddJB

> Todd, any luck removing the black from the screw driver blanks?
> 
> - AgentTwitch


Haven't tried. I'm a slacker that works best under pressure. I'll get started the night before progress picture.

Also, what's rattling around in my brian for this swap doesn't involve the Grace shanks.


----------



## HokieKen

> Todd, any luck removing the black from the screw driver blanks?
> 
> - AgentTwitch


The Schwarz says toilet bowl cleaner will do the trick. Read the precautions at the bottom of the article!


----------



## jeffswildwood

Went to see the sawyer today. What a score! I left with several boards of hard maple and walnut. He just kept digging saying "here, put this in your truck" When it was time to go I asked what I owed him. He said "nothing, I should pay you for clearing out my scrap pile". Scrap pile, believe me, it was not scrap! I got home and began cutting, learned a lesson about the maple, IT'S HARD! Gave my little skil table saw a workout. After working mostly with pine and poplar, what a shock.

I'm still in the game, if I don't get this swap done it won't be from lack of trying!


----------



## waho6o9

Good score Jeff, take your time and enjoy the journey!


----------



## wormil

> MT1 in the head and MT2 in the tailstock. Can t even buy spurs and live centers in sets.
> - HokieKen


LOL, I have a GP lathe from the 20's with an 1MT headstock and 0MT tailstock-- 0MT!! The taper is like a sharpened pencil. I did a full resto on it and someday I'm going to build a treadle for it. Maybe.



> Also, what s rattling around in my brian for this swap doesn t involve the Grace shanks.
> - ToddJB


I keep going back and forth on what I want to do. My original plan is in limbo until I solve a heat treat issue.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Question guys. The grace ferrulls are tapered. Three sizes. Without a lathe I have been using a file to get that taper. It involves file and check, file and check. A little more on top, a little more on the tip. Is this the right track? Is there a better way that I am not seeing? I feel like I am using trial and error to get this taper. Thats why I cut 16 blanks for 6 screwdrivers. Any tips or tricks?


----------



## Ripthorn

Jeff, the way machinists tend to do it is to use a marking dye so they can easily see where the high spots are. In your case, what would work is to coat the inside of the ferrule with something like permanent marker. Then to check, you insert the handle and give it a couple good hard twists, remove, and see where the marker was worn off (or where the wood got a little burnished). Also note that the ferrule doesn't have to be the world's tightest fit. A little epoxy can help keep a slightly loose one in place.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Brian, thanks a lot! The marker trick sounds perfect for me! I could feel the fit before but not tell where I needed to remove a bit more wood and would run the risk of taking too much off the wrong place. With this I can tell easily. Can't wait to try it. Thanks for letting me know they don't have to be perfect, I have never used epoxy before and didn't know it's capability's.


----------



## bearkatwood

Two different tapers Todd? Crap! That's is just industrial espionage. 
This screwdriver thang ain't no joke. I have heard more frustration from this build from everyone than making a chair. 
I think I am going to the dollar store and buying a screwdriver and painting it WOOD colored. Ha


----------



## fatandy2003

I agree Brian. No lathe and no drill press have made this difficult. 3 scrapped so far. The last 1 was close… We'll get there!


----------



## Ripthorn

I had some time to kill, so I started in on a bonus item. Teaser:


----------



## bearkatwood

Oooooo


----------



## DLK

One more screwdriver to go. Latest challenge was cutting square holes in a copper end cap for the ferrule. Fortunately I picked up on one of my travels a set of HF diamond files. after drilling a round hole I went to town with the diamond files to make it square. I'm getting better and faster at shaping tool handles on the drill press. I'd like to start over. Two questions:


What sort of finish do we prefer for tool handles?
Any tips on using epoxy to glue in the shanks and glue on the ferruless


----------



## HokieKen

I was wondering about the finish myself. Leaning toward BLO only. Not sure if I want wax on screwdrivers and I don't like film finishes on tool handles.

I am planning on putting epoxy in the hole for the shaft and coating the shaft itself. Will get a lot of squeeze-out so I put some tape around the wood and ferrule so it doesn't get on them. For the ferrule, I'll probably coat the tenon then press the ferrule on and leave it clamped up until epoxy cures so it doesn't slip.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Andy I agree with you. No lathe and no drill press (big enough to use) has made a rough road. I am lucky though, my neighbor has agree to let me use his drill press. I hope he don't get upset when I show up with a wixey angle gauge and start checking first.  I gave finish a little thought, although I am a ways away from that point. I am leaning toward danish oil. I think I will leave the polyurethane alone on this one.


----------



## Ripthorn

DonK, here are a few things I have learned regarding epoxying tool handles:

- Taping is ok, but rarely works in my cases as the piece usually tapers away from the stub for the ferrule
- I like to put one coat of oil on before any epoxy so that the epoxy squeezeout doesn't discolor the wood under the finish
- My general process goes as follows: turn the stem for the ferrule on the lathe; turn rest of handle; Sand to 220; drill for shank; remove from lathe and make sure ferrule fits nicely; one coat of oil; epoxy ferrule on, leaving a little extra in length; sand down extra in length so that ferrule and wood are flush with each other and a nice finish is obtained (after epoxying in the shank, this surface becomes a real beast to deal with; cut turning stub off of piece (the part held by the drive spur); sand and finish handle end; epoxy in shank; complete the finishing process

I can do this whole process pretty quickly now, with waiting for epoxy to cure being the only real time consumer.


----------



## Ripthorn

Regarding lathes and drill presses, some of my favorite shop made handles were for an awl and a marking knife I made several years ago. The handles started life square, but I tapered them with the belt sander and rounded over corners and I got a really great shape that I love and have used a few more times. Of course, I turn handles now as well, but it isn't necessary to have a lathe or such for a great handle.


----------



## fatandy2003

Brian,

I agree with you. I made up 2 prototypes that are hexagonal and I like the feel in my hand a lot. The difficult part is getting the shank perfectly straight. I am not great at drilling perfectly straight holes. Each of my 3 tries has gotten closer to straight, but I think I may look for someone with a drill press just so I can move on. This is one of those times where making a swap tool can really enhance a skill that I am not great at.


----------



## HokieKen

Lathe is definitely not necessary! Take a look at Perfect Handle screwdrivers. I LOVE that shape for flat head drivers and it can easily be made with a bandsaw and belt sander (or spokeshave and rasps for hand tool guys). London pattern handles are also popular and don't require a lathe either.

Truth be told, I'd probably be done by now if I didn't have a lathe. A single little slip and the whole piece is shot to hell. Working metal is soooooooo much easier!


----------



## DLK

Thanks Brian and Kenny


----------



## donwilwol

You should try tru oil for a finish. Goes on like oil, can get a finish like lacquer.


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## bearkatwood

My first try was disappointing, I ended up with a nice screwdriver for my shop. The handle fit o.k.-ish.
I am thinking the best route for my needs is to drill the hole first and then turn it on some shop-made jig-thangy.

Here is my teaser of my failure. The next try will hopefully be a success and use the same species of wood


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## DLK

> You should try tru oil for a finish. Goes on like oil, can get a finish like lacquer.
> 
> - Don W


I would if I could find it at a local store, but I can't find it here.


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## donwilwol

try a gun shop.


> You should try tru oil for a finish. Goes on like oil, can get a finish like lacquer.
> 
> - Don W
> 
> I would if I could find it at a local store, but I can t find it here.
> 
> - Combo Prof


try a gun shop. Walmart usually has it as well. In the sporting goods section.


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## jeffswildwood

I have a really nice design (IMO) starting from square. I am using a combination of band saw, router, files and sanders. I don't really need a lathe for this, I think I just wish I had one.  I think maybe I suffer from tool envy. I hear there is no cure except spend more money on new tools. My Doctor said "buy these new router bits and call me in the mourning". LOL


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## bearkatwood

I think Veritas makes a pill for that


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## jeffswildwood

> I think Veritas makes a pill for that
> 
> - bearkatwood


LOL


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## DLK

> try a gun shop.
> 
> You should try tru oil for a finish. Goes on like oil, can get a finish like lacquer.
> 
> - Don W
> 
> I would if I could find it at a local store, but I can t find it here.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> try a gun shop. Walmart usually has it as well. In the sporting goods section.
> 
> - Don W


We do have a gun shop and a Wal-mart. So I will look.


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## AgentTwitch

Yesterday's attempts at turning a handle were a comedy of errors. I unpacked my lathe that has been sitting in its box since the move in July. I opened the accessory jaws box and went to mount it to the lathe to grip the square stock. I never used these before so I was pretty pumped…Turns out I bought the wrong size thread adapter over a year ago…*sigh* no big deal, I ordered the correct size, should be here in plenty of time. So I drilled out the hole on the drill press (not square-*sigh*) and mounted it to the lathe. Went to turn it on…It spun a few times and died. I looked it over and started copying the warranty information down since it was still under warranty. No big deal, I will work on another little project before I submit the warranty information. I went back to the shop, plugged in the spindle sander and no power…No fuses tripped. Power at the outlet. Turns out the extension cord I was using was no longer working??? Plugged in the lathe into a new extension cord and it fired up! Yay! I mounted the test piece and it was fun shaping it. I had a real snug fit for the ferrule and started shaping the handle. I am going to have to get some measurements from a real comfortable screw driver because what I turned…Well…it will burn well. I had to use a chisel to split the wood to get the ferrule off. Man…This is hard!


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## DLK

> try a gun shop.
> 
> You should try tru oil for a finish. Goes on like oil, can get a finish like lacquer.
> 
> - Don W
> 
> I would if I could find it at a local store, but I can t find it here.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> try a gun shop. Walmart usually has it as well. In the sporting goods section.
> 
> - Don W
> 
> We do have a gun shop and a Wal-mart. So I will look.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Got some from Dunham's Sports . Trying it out on an "Imperfect handle".

Can I put it over BLO? I like the colour that BLO adds.


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## HokieKen

> DonK, here are a few things I have learned regarding epoxying tool handles:
> 
> - Taping is ok, but rarely works in my cases as the piece usually tapers away from the stub for the ferrule
> - I like to put one coat of oil on before any epoxy so that the epoxy squeezeout doesn t discolor the wood under the finish
> - My general process goes as follows: turn the stem for the ferrule on the lathe; turn rest of handle; Sand to 220; drill for shank; remove from lathe and make sure ferrule fits nicely; one coat of oil; epoxy ferrule on, leaving a little extra in length; sand down extra in length so that ferrule and wood are flush with each other and a nice finish is obtained (after epoxying in the shank, this surface becomes a real beast to deal with; cut turning stub off of piece (the part held by the drive spur); sand and finish handle end; epoxy in shank; complete the finishing process
> 
> I can do this whole process pretty quickly now, with waiting for epoxy to cure being the only real time consumer.
> 
> - Ripthorn


I like the idea of oil before epoxying the ferrule on. Much surer method than tape! Be careful following this process for the Grace drivers though. I did notice that wings on one of them were too wide to fit through the ferrule. So for that one, you'll want to install the shaft first. I think it was the #1 but can't recall for sure right now.


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## DLK

Thanks Kenny. I made my own ferrules. Mine are a near perfect fit. Wings will not fit though any of them.


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## DLK

How will the ship date work? Can I ship a day or two early? or a few days later?
I'm traveling May 17 to May 21.


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## HokieKen

I don't see any problem with shipping on 5/16 Don. 6/1 is the reveal date so, as long as your recipient receives it before then and doesn't post pics prematurely, it meets all the required deadlines. Mos gets to make the final call, but as far as I can discern, 5/18 is the deadline for shipping. I don't see any reason we have to wait until then if we're ready a couple days earlier.



> Got some from Dunham s Sports . Trying it out on an "Imperfect handle".
> 
> Can I put it over BLO? I like the colour that BLO adds.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Try it over BLO on some scrap and find out. If you look at the FAQs here I'm guessing it might cause some issues since "Tru-Oil has a difficult time penetrating and drying on oily woods". Let us know how it turns out though. I'm very curious about whether it leaves an "oily" finish or a "filmy" finish.


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## sepeck

I am so weak on finish. Just playing around on some samples at this point. Due to the comments on 'film finishes' I picked up some Tung oil, Orange oil with wax, one other whose name escapes me and already had BLO and put them on some test pieces. They all look the same with one coat. I guess I need to sand or steel wool them and add another coat or two.


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## waho6o9

I made these a couple of years ago with shanks from Lee Valley

and finished them with Shellac and paste wax, they've held up

fine and are used daily.


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## sepeck

> I made these a couple of years ago with shanks from Lee Valley
> 
> and finished them with Shellac and paste wax, they ve held up
> 
> fine and are used daily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - waho6o9


GAH! Decisions! Don't mind me, I will be over here in the corner curled up sobbing.


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## HokieKen

> ... Due to the comments on film finishes…
> 
> - sepeck


My comments on film finishes are based on crappy varnishes and lacquers on old planes and drills I've bought. I've always stripped those finishes because they feel like plastic and/or they flake over time and look like crap. I just like the feel of wood and don't want to grab wood and feel plastic. Of course this is solely my opinion. I'm sure it's possible to get a good feel and look with some film finishes, I've just never tried. I don't mind refreshing oil and/or wax periodically though.



> I made these a couple of years ago with shanks from Lee Valley
> 
> and finished them with Shellac and paste wax, they ve held up
> 
> fine and are used daily.
> 
> - waho6o9


No issues with the wax being "slippery"? I've always used wax on plane totes/knobs and eggbeater handles but was questioning whether or not I'd be able to get a good grip on a screwdriver if it was waxed. I've got a few prototypes and screw-ups so I can wax a few and see what I think.


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## Ripthorn

My go to finish on shop tools is two or three coats of danish oil or similar (Formby's Tung Oil Finish is my current stuff) with two coats of paste wax. The wax does not make it slippery, but can be smooth. It creates a great satin feeling finish. Never had a problem with it with any kind of shop tool.


----------



## Ripthorn

A note on Tru-oil. It is a polymerized tung oil finish that will create a film. It takes many coats to do it, but it works pretty well. Over the last 10 years the price has gone way up due to popularity, so that combined with other finishes I've found has made it a finish that I don't use very often at all. You also have to worry about skinning and such with it much more than something like danish oil. Then again, if you want film thickness and don't want lacquer, go with shellac. If you don't want that, Tru-oil will work  That's just my two cent's worth.


----------



## DLK

I did read that several coats of BLO followed by many more coats of Tru Oil is a preferred finish of professional gunstock makers. Don't know if I will have the time. I may just do the usual, BLO and Mineral spirits..


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## bobasaurus

Kenny, I've used renaissance wax on several screwdriver handles and it makes for great grip, not slippery at all. Plus it doesn't show fingerprints.


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## sepeck

Hmm… My test screw drivers have all been hard Maple with 3 layers of clear shellac and one spray on lacquer and they felt nice and looked nice too. I will play with the oil I picked up some more and see what I come up with.


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## jeffswildwood

Lately I have been having good results with danish oil. I like the natural look it has. I think that will be my go to finish this time.


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## HokieKen

> Lately I have been having good results with danish oil. I like the natural look it has. I think that will be my go to finish this time.
> 
> - jeffswildwood


I like Danish Oil as well. I think it and BLO give equally good "shop use" finishes with wax on top. I work mostly with white oak though and really like the warm golden color that BLO gives it so it's kind of my default finish. I'll be working with a couple of different woods for this swap though and one is Walnut. I think BLO makes it too dark and hides the subtle color changes so I might try some Danish Oil on it to see how it does.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Today was to be the day. I had some time, the blanks cut and drilled, and the shaft and was going to make the first non test piece. Cutting went great. Nice shaping done. Great taper for the ferule. Did a test fit after cutting for the tabs and the shaft went in nicely, and got stuck! When I finally got it out, I cracked the ferule taper. Strike one I guess. That's why I cut 16 blanks for 6 screwdrivers.


----------



## DLK

> Today was to be the day. I had some time, the blanks cut and drilled, and the shaft and was going to make the first non test piece. Cutting went great. Nice shaping done. Great taper for the ferule. Did a test fit after cutting for the tabs and the shaft went in nicely, and got stuck! When I finally got it out, I cracked the ferule taper. Strike one I guess. That s why I cut 16 blanks for 6 screwdrivers.
> 
> - jeffswildwood


I either put the shaft into a cork padded vise and pull with out twisting and get it out. Or I first place a box wrench over the shaft and then insert the shaft into the vise and hammer on the wrench handle. The box end of the wrench should be about the size of the tenon. You may have to insert a washer.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Thanks for the advice Don. Once again I appreciate all I can get! I do have better news, I made the second attempt at a final product. Success!! I now have a completed handle, ferrule fits perfect and ready for the phillips shaft to be inserted. I did a test fit with the shaft in tip first and all looks good. Now to get the tabs set and I will have one down five + to go! Feeling pretty stoked!

What have others been doing, jig saw blade or heating. Which has worked better?


----------



## waho6o9

Great work Jeff keep at it.

I just use epoxy.


----------



## HokieKen

> Thanks for the advice Don. Once again I appreciate all I can get! I do have better news, I made the second attempt at a final product. Success!! I now have a completed handle, ferrule fits perfect and ready for the phillips shaft to be inserted. I did a test fit with the shaft in tip first and all looks good. Now to get the tabs set and I will have one down five + to go! Feeling pretty stoked!
> 
> What have others been doing, jig saw blade or heating. Which has worked better?
> 
> - jeffswildwood


Heating has worked perfectly for me in white oak and walnut for the tabbed shafts and the square ones. Try it in a piece of scrap first but I don't think you'll have any issues.

Nice job. You're well ahead of me! I'm learning that turning a nice handle isn't all that hard… BUT turning multiple handles that are all the same is proving to be quite a challenge for me. Add different woods and multiple axis turning and I've got a long row to hoe! No worries, I'll get 'er done


----------



## jeffswildwood

> Add different woods and multiple axis turning and I ve got a long row to hoe! No worries, I ll get er done
> 
> - HokieKen


 Different woods and multiple axis, Wow, that sounds interesting.


----------



## terryR

Finally success for me yesterday, too!
Shanks done. Playing with ferrule material…


----------



## Mosquito

I might (low likelihood) share a picture of my first trial run… would act as both encouragement and discouragement.

Encouragement, at least yours isn't this bad! 
Discouragement, you might get my swap items lol

I will say, in Cherry with the smallest Philips shank, I just drilled the appropriately sized hole, and drove the thing in with out any issues with splitting or anything. Not sure it'd work with the larger shanks, though.


----------



## terryR

decisions,


----------



## ToddJB

Ha. The red circles are almost always what I go with for drivers like these:



Are the blue ones thick walled or is the top a lip? If thick walled do tell what they are.


----------



## Ripthorn

Rubber band!

Actually, I usually use copper pipe couplers cut in half. I have also used brass compression fittings for larger items and they are virtually invincible.


----------



## RichCMD

> Add different woods and multiple axis turning and I ve got a long row to hoe! No worries, I ll get er done
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> Different woods and multiple axis, Wow, that sounds interesting.
> 
> - jeffswildwood


I am working along similar lines, but think I only need just one handle. I successfully completed a "rapid prototype" using one multi-axis technique, but I am now pursuing a way to achieve a similar handle shape using a single axis. Whatever I end up with, I am certainly learning along the way.


----------



## Mosquito

does "wobbling" count as 'off axis' turning? If so I'm doing great with the drill press lol


----------



## DLK

Made all of mine with the drill press. The hard ones to do were the ones with a 3/16 diameter shaft. The torque on the arbor I used was eventually to much for it. Got the last one done on a broken arbor. But, then I did not put a center point on the bottom of the handle and let it "wobble". With the lathe up and working now I won't need to use the drill press for handles again. But it was interesting. This reminds me. Time to go home and put on another coat of finish.


----------



## HokieKen

> I am working along similar lines, but think I only need just one handle. I successfully completed a "rapid prototype" using one multi-axis technique, but I am now pursuing a way to achieve a similar handle shape using a single axis. Whatever I end up with, I am certainly learning along the way.
> 
> - RichCMD


You and me both! I'm fairly new to turning anyway and entirely new to multi-axis. But I'm a glutton for punishment and just finished dresser project so I figure I can focus solely on this and not start another "big" project until I get this one done.



> does "wobbling" count as off axis turning? If so I m doing great with the drill press lol
> 
> - Mosquito


I'd say that wobbling is by definition off-axis turning ;>) Before I got a lathe, I made a few odds and ends with files and my drill press. I must say that as big a PITA learning to turn on the lathe is, it is much easier than the drill press!


----------



## DLK

We had a winter advisory two/three days ago and it was below freezing. To cold to be in the shop.
Today its 65 degrees and sunny. To nice to be in the shop. ..... I may never finish. LOL!


----------



## terryR

> Ha. The red circles are almost always what I go with for drivers like these:
> 
> 
> 
> Are the blue ones thick walled or is the top a lip? If thick walled do tell what they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - ToddJB


blue in center is LV, other blue is my scrap.

was going with the black Delrin one, but changed to brass today. Shanks hardened, and two woods tested for finish. Hoping to have time for a bonus item!


----------



## jeffswildwood

I really like the grace ferrules but wish I went with the lee valley. The grace added a degree of difficulty I didn't expect. I'll get it though.


----------



## AgentTwitch

The LV one looks like pneumatic hose fittings. Wonder if they are the same thing? Almost picked some up at the hardware store this morning.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Heee haaa, two screwdriver handles done with shanks installed! The two mid size ones. On top of having to work 36 hours this week end. Burn in method works great! I'm still on my way! Next the small ones. (Saving the toughest for last)


----------



## RichCMD

Prototype #1









Prototype #2

These are progress pictures of a couple of "rapid prototypes" I've made for testing different ways of making the handle shape I want. I say "rapid prototype" because I was just testing the basic method and did not focus on accuracy. (At least that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.) Prototype #1 uses multi-axis turning and Prototype #2 is single axis. I am now debating with myself about which method I am going to actually use for the swap.

#1 is more aesthetically pleasing, but it is definitely more challenging. I am concerned it might take me a lot of practice to be able to get the sides in proportion and even more practice before the results are repeatable enough to produce several handles with matching dimensions. Still, I like the end result a bit better than #2.

#2 is a good, functional handle that is much easier to make than #1. If I had never messed with #1, I would probably be completely happy with it. Not only is it easier to make, but I think it would be far easier to get repeatable results.

I have some travel coming up, mostly for business purposes, and I need to make something for my oldest sister's 75th birthday, so I will probably end up using #2. I guess we will just have to wait to see what I actually end up doing.


----------



## jmartel

Made some progress on a prototype tonight. I like the way it came out. So I think I've got a game plan moving forward now.


----------



## sepeck

Meant to post this last week. I have an old Stanley screwdriver acquired from somewhere in the family. But the small ferrule from Grace is the same size and shape. Just thought it was interesting.


----------



## ToddJB

Yep, Grace's style is heavily borrowed from some classics of yesteryear.









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## ToddJB

Starting working through logistics last night. Need to do some material ordering today!


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## HokieKen

Yep, I have an old, unbranded, wood-handled driver that I ground into a birdcage awl a while back. It has the same ferrule as well. My guess is that at some point there was one dominant supplier of the ferrules in the US and all of the major tool manufacturers used them so that style caught on and stuck.


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## sepeck

> Yep, I have an old, unbranded, wood-handled driver that I ground into a birdcage awl a while back. It has the same ferrule as well. My guess is that at some point there was one dominant supplier of the ferrules in the US and all of the major tool manufacturers used them so that style caught on and stuck.
> 
> - HokieKen


That's a good thought. It is pretty much spot on the same size.

As for me, I drilled the hole for the shank. Then sized the ferrule for the big end, snuck up on it for fit. Then shaped the handle.


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## HokieKen

I took some dial spring calipers and measured the inside diameter at top and bottom… then turned the big diameter and snuck up on it for fit ;P Proved to be much faster to do it that way than to try and turn the proper taper to the measurements I took.


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## ToddJB

Materials Ordered. True to fashion - I'll be cutting it close depending on when this ish shows up.


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## jeffswildwood

After hours of filing to fit the Ferrels on my handles I noticed something odd. I had them snug, very tight fit. I used the heat method to insert the shanks. When cool I test fitted the ferrels again. They loosened! The wood had shrunk. Not a great amount but enough where they are a loose fit. I have completed four of six+ screwdrivers and can not start over.

I have researched glues and need a bit of advice. Gorilla glue (polyurethane) expands, how much. Will it push the ferrel out or just fill the void and hold. Epoxy sounds good but will it hold fast to cover a loose fit. How about covering the wood with something prior to gluing. I did a test fit with a single piece of newspaper, (I would not do this, just gauging the fit) and now it is tight so I see how much it shrunk. I know several coats of poly will fill the space but will epoxy stick to this.

Anyone have advice? On glues or covering to fit? I am excited to have 4 ready and hope I didn't mess up this close to the finish!


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## Ripthorn

Jeff, epoxy hideth a multitude of evils. it will fill the gap as long as you keep the stuff in while it cures. In your case, just coat the inside of the ferrule with epoxy, slip it on, then use a spring clamp or similar so that the screwdriver stands point down. Wipe off all excess quickly. Should work fine. Do not use gorilla glue. If you are only a newspaper thickness away, a single application of epoxy is easily that thick.


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## wormil

Not only does steel expand and contact with heat but can lose its temper. If you got any part of those tips over about 500F you may have ruined them.


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## jeffswildwood

Brian, thanks for the heads up on glues. I do believe epoxy is the answer. Or at least that's what I am going with.
There is not much shrinkage with the wood so I may be OK.

Rick, I only heated the insert end of the shaft, and not much. Just enough to burn in. Slowly I may add. There is no way the tips got to 500 degree. How do I know? I used an old sock to hold the shafts while heating and inserting and many times I (accidentally) touched the tip. No burns, no blisters. I never allowed the insert end to get red, Just about 15 seconds was well hot enough. Heat, insert about a quarter inch, repeat. I'm sure my tips (and shafts) are in good shape.


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## HokieKen

Sounds about like what worked for me too Jeff. Don't sweat a little shrinkage. Just the heat pulling out a little moisture. Epoxy will handle a gap much bigger than yours without batting an eye. Follow Brian's suggestions and you'll be golden. Nice job!


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## jeffswildwood

Thanks Ken, I've cut, shaped and filed til my hands hurt to get this far. Just the thoughts of dropping due to a little shrinkage was really depressing. Four down and two to go. I am hoping to have time to do the "bonus items" I have in mind. My goal is completed by the progress pic date.


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## HokieKen

I wouldn't even think about abandoning those drivers. You can always find something that will work as a ferrule. I've read articles by some turners who like to wrap high-strength thread soaked in epoxy around the tenon as a ferrule. There's always something! As much effort as you've put into this, I don't think that, at this point, we would allow you to drop anyway ;P


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## Mosquito

So far, I haven't had any success beyond poor results…. oooh boy what have I gotten myself into lol


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## Ripthorn

Rick, there is actually a wide range of temperatures that O1 can be heated to and still be a perfectly serviceable tool. Typically the 400 degrees ish range is quoted for cutting tools that have to really last with a narrow bevel and need to shear material very cleanly. This is the RC60-62 range. However, you don't start losing significant hardness until close to 900 degrees, which is where you would hit about 50-52 which is a spring temper. For a screwdriver, you don't necessarily need 60-62. 50-52 will be harder than anything you drive save for hardened drywall screws or high grades of stainless.

The dreaded "blue death" with tool steel relates much more to cutting edges than screw drivers. In fact, after careful deliberation, I've decided to try some tools that aren't heat treated because they will come in contact with mostly brass, which is very soft, and I don't want something overly hardened that could damage it. If I am working on a vintage piece, I would rather damage the tool slightly than damage a component that will be hard to replace. Who knows how it will turn out a couple decades down the road, but it is easy enough for me to make a new one if necessary.


----------



## wormil

> However, you don t start losing significant hardness until close to 900 degrees, which is where you would hit about 50-52 which is a spring temper.
> 
> - Ripthorn


Since you apparently won't take my word for it, according to the Engineering Toolbox, screwdrivers are tempered at around 560F. (which is about the temperature of my pan when I cook steaks, it is nowhere near red hot as has been said) Of course only Grace knows what specific alloy they are using and the heat treat. Why don't you guys contact them and ask their recommendation for burning in handles?


----------



## Ripthorn

Rick, all I am saying is that if you go above that temp, then yes, you lose some hardness, but it is not a steep dropoff. If you look at the actual HRC values at the different tempering colors, you will see that between 350 and 560 you are only losing a couple of points. However, if your screwdriver is, say 2 points softer on the Rockwell C scale, most people will never find out in their lifetimes, as it will still be plenty hard. So again, yes it will be tempered a little softer, but it's not nearly as big of a deal with screwdrivers as it is with cutting edges. I am not recommending that anyone purposely mess with the temper on their shanks, but if they accidentally take the tip to blue, they shouldn't feel as though the world is coming to an end or that their swap project is hopeless.

Some of the discussion here has seemed to propose only two possible outcomes: A) temperature doesn't matter all, so don't sweat it even if it gets super hot, or B) temper will be completely wrecked the second it hits blue. Neither of these is really correct. Even after tool steel has been hardened and tempered, taking it right back to red hot will not instantly cause the steel to be annealed. If left to cool in regular air, it will still maintain more hardness than annealed steel because of the heat transfer characteristics and how the steel grain structure aligns. In order to anneal it, you must allow it to cool extremely slowly, by burying it in sand or using a temperature controlled furnace in an annealing cycle.

Furthermore, in order to get the tempered hardness that is mentioned in the handbooks, you have to soak the part at that temperature for at least a few minutes, otherwise, you don't fully draw out the hardness throughout the part. A screwdriver shaft has a lot of surface area compared to volume, so it is extremely efficient at radiating heat. It also doesn't have a sharp edge like a chisel, which does not require much heat at all to get up to temperature (which makes them very susceptible to bluing). All told, you do need to be careful, but the situation is not nearly as dire as some have made it out to be. Neither is it a complete non-issue as you feel others have suggested.


----------



## HokieKen

FWIW, IMHO, ruining the temper IS a concern when heating steel. But, my feeling (for the specific situation of the Grace shafts) is that the amount of heat needed to sink them into PREDRILLED wood is little enough that if it's done in short bursts (10-20) seconds, the shaft doesn't get enough heat to approach anywhere near the tempering temperature. I suggest that, if you're "burning in" that you make sure you can put your finger on the shaft (and leave it there) 1-2" above the tip without getting burned.

BTW, I looked it up a while back and the ignition temperature of most woods is between 370 and 460 F depending on type of wood and MC. So, theoretically if you heat the shaft to 460 degrees, the wood will flame up when you insert it. The charring temperature (burns at a steady rate without ignition), which is what's needed here, is 250-280F. I haven't tested this so I'm not making any claims based on it, just throwing it out for anyone interested!


----------



## terryR

Lots of grey areas with hardening steel, if done by color alone. And since no one is measuring how hot the shanks get while being inserted, we are guessing here.

Send them to me and I can scratch test them for hardness. LOL. Maybe I'll scratch my Graces? Probably not…

Have even considered a brass screwdriver for plane and saw handles.


----------



## Ripthorn

Terry, I made a small brass screwdriver shank for a particular application once, just because it is what I had on hand and it was for a low-torque application. Has worked fine for a year with no sign of wear.


----------



## wormil

My point is that one way carries a risk of losing temper, the other way doesn't so I'm not sure why you guys are pushing the risky method. But I'll shut up, you are grown men and can make your own decisions.


----------



## Ripthorn

No doubt one way carries risk. I think it is important that especially those who are doing this kind of thing for the first time understand the risks. Making informed decisions is crucial. I think it is always beneficial for there to be discussions regarding risk/reward for given methods. Someone doing this for the first time may well go research it on the internet and find the burn in method, which has been done for hundreds of years. They may decide to try it without consideration of how hot to get the shank. For that reason, I think your concerns are a positive contribution for all of us. In the end, all of this is about exchange of information. I love tool making and have gotten into heat treating my own items and was sharing information I have learned from both study and experience, that's all. The whole spirit of these swaps is to try something new and maybe introduce more people to the idea that they can make their own perfectly serviceable tools.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree ^. I'm glad to share my experience and get a lot of knowledge from others on this site! Rick is right-on that heating steel can have undesirable effects on the tool's performance and anyone considering doing so should be informed of that risk. I don't want to push this method on anyone, just give my $.02 and share my personal experience. I've found that for me, the best way I can get tanged tools like chisels and knives (and now screwdrivers) in handles straight and tight is by burning them. But it's not by any means the only way and I won't in a million years claim it's the best way. It's just the way that works for me.

I've learned quite a bit from posts from both of you guys in this thread! I never knew you could buy tool steel that was already hardened until Brian told me. I've always gotten it from work where we buy it in the annealed state. And Rick got me to do some research on tempering to get a better understanding of it so I can be sure I don't risk damage to these drivers. It's funny, I've specified hardnesses and tempers on parts for years and I knew how they were achieved but never really gave much concern to what happens "on the way" to annealing after the fact.

And, of course as a whole, the group in this thread has taught me a ton about screwdriver handles and how much variation there can be in personal preferences for design and fabrication.

So thanks to all! It's my first swap and it's been an great learning experience. I can't wait to see what everybody makes and how my humble contribution stacks up against my betters.


----------



## wormil

I think as long as people are informed of the risk and know they have to take precautions that's the main thing.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree ^.



> ... Of course only Grace knows what specific alloy they are using and the heat treat. Why don t you guys contact them and ask their recommendation for burning in handles?
> 
> - Rick M.


That is a fantastic idea. I just shot an e-mail off asking if burning in was acceptable and what temperature the shafts can be heated to without affecting the temper. I'll post if/when I get a reply.

I'm also going to attempt to take some accurate temperature readings on a shaft to see how hot I'm actually getting it when I mount them. Being able to touch it when heating tells me it's not getting too hot down the shaft but it would be nice to know how hot it's actually getting at the end. I'll report if/when I get it done.


----------



## terryR

I agree, sharing information is what this is about.

And measuring to obtain specific data can only help! 

red hot looks different inside and outside, and different to each of us.


----------



## ToddJB

Speaking of sharing info. Terry, how is your coffee can forge holding up? If plan A goes according to… plan then I'll need to make me one sometime this week.


----------



## terryR

Still looks new. Does a decent job on heating steel less than 1/4" thick. I've had to block the hole in the rear for 5/16" O1 which I don't recommend for this lil forge. I heated enough of 5/16" steel for a plane iron, but 'twas a LONG 30 minutes on my hands and knees.

A photo in case you guys are curious…










a No.10 can using plaster o paris for refractory. looks like crap. works. search youTube "coffee can forge" for details on how to build one.


----------



## ToddJB

Yeah. Thats the one. I considered making a fire brick one, but based on a bit of research it would cost me more, is more fragile. Thanks for the update.


----------



## bobasaurus

My forge should be arriving today, I can hardly wait. I ended up buying a chile forge, as I want to do lots of general purpose blacksmithing and I'm scared of making a propane-burning appliance myself to run near my wood shop and house.

Hopefully I'll get it setup in the next few days and try forging out a screwdriver blade or two.

One note on the shaft heating discussion: steel doesn't conduct temperature all that well… it may be possible to heat the back enough to burn through without overheating the tip. A lot of blacksmithing is done bare handed by just holding the rod being heated a few feet back.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...One note on the shaft heating discussion: steel doesn t conduct temperature all that well… it may be possible to heat the back enough to burn through without overheating the tip. A lot of blacksmithing is done bare handed by just holding the rod being heated a few feet back.
> 
> - bobasaurus


Yeah, I was kind of surprised at how cool the shaft was at about the midpoint when I heated the end up. The end was hot enough to burn into oak but, I could also handle the shaft about midway up barehanded. Congrats on the new forge! Show us some pics when she's up and running.


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## Ripthorn

I have 8 fire bricks that I configure for my heat treating needs. I really like it because I can tailor the internal chamber geometry for a particular need to ensure fastest bring up to temp. From the local brick place it ran me about $2.25/brick.


----------



## ToddJB

Brian, what is a local brick place? Cause BORGS want $30-40 for 6


----------



## Ripthorn

Search for a brick supplier in your area. For example, here in the Austin area, I went to Acme brick. They will be much cheaper, plus no shipping.


----------



## bobasaurus

From what I understand, you want insulated fire brick, not regular fire brick. It's harder to find, but can go to much higher temperatures without cracking and retains heat better.


----------



## SASmith

I'm seeing lots of forge talk. Anyone run one of these?


----------



## Hammerthumb

I only paid a couple of dollars per brick at Home Depot.










I agree with Brian about having ease of re-configuring for different jobs. In this picture, the torch goes into the notch at the front. I have another configuration where it goes in the side at the front. The bricks were carved on the long corners to give a cylindrical shape. With the torch on the side, it swirls through the chamber. Also, the firebrick cuts like butter with a 4.5" diamond blade and a Makita grinder.


----------



## ToddJB

All good info.


----------



## Iguana

Got some scraps out today









and made some turning blanks


----------



## putty

Watcha going to turn Mark?


----------



## Iguana

All of 'em, Putty.


----------



## terryR

Allen, congrats! I've been eyeing a chile forge for over a year, just can't pull the trigger. Which model did you get? Photos and a quick review please, please! 

Although, Scott's torch would certainly improve the performance of my coffee can!

Unfortunately, I ordered insulated fire bricks a few years ago, but didn't protect them from our goats. Only two are intact. Replacing the window unit they also destroyed today…my fault I suppose for NOT building a fence around my shop!


----------



## HokieKen

I heard back from Dan at Grace Tools this morning. He didn't address the "winged" shafts but said they just insert the square ones into holes with no problems. They do drill the hole slightly undersized for the 1/8" shaft. He said he doesn't think heating will cause any issues for the shafts which are 8650 steel. I should think not! The tempering temperature for 60 HRc is ~970 F for 8650. I am pretty certain that 15-20 seconds with my propane torch won't get me anywhere near there  Here are the material properties of 8650 Steel for anyone interested. Dan's e-mail is below.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Mark, those are some fine looking blanks!


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## bobasaurus

Terry, it arrived today and I finally got it setup in a basic form… I'm super pumped. It's a Chile Habañero 2 burner forge, and it heats crazy fast:










It was getting late, so I didn't get to mess with it much… but I did smoosh out a kinda-screwdriver-like shape for you all:










Just mild steel, so nothing usable. I do have some O1 drill rod though…


----------



## bobasaurus

It came super well packaged (which it better for the nearly $90 shipping). I assembled the forge floor, side armor, and inserted the protective shelf. The burners just sit in their holes, no attachments of any sort (oddly). Hope they don't slip out someday, but it seems secure.

One of the burner's cups was slightly bent from shipping, but it was easy enough to bend back. This is what keeps it on the forge inlets.

I did manage to drop the regulator like a dumbass and dinged the pressure dial. Typical of me around new things. Oh well, it still works. I had to go shopping for a pipe nipple and gender changer, extending the regulator past my cart. If I had more ceiling clearance, I could have used their regulator as-is. Had a small propane leak initially from me not tightening this extendo-nipple enough. Gotta crank those things hard, even with pipe thread tape.

I ordered it with a probe port for a thermocouple. I have one, but still need to set it up and try it.

Lighting it is a little intense, it flares a bit. Gotta go easy on the ball valve at first. Then just opening the second valve lights the other burner. You light it at 3 PSI, then forge at 9-15 PSI typically. I left it at 9 PSI after lighting and it took maybe 4 minutes to heat my bar enough to forge. Cooling it is another matter… an hour later and it is still pretty hot. Good insulation


----------



## waho6o9

Nice addition Allen, congrats!


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## bobasaurus

Also, I held that rod with my bare hands while forging, maybe 3 feet away from the hot bit. The steel didn't even really warm up at that point. Considering the hot end was maybe a bit shy of 2000 F, it shows how steel doesn't conduct temperature very well.


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## Iguana

Another teaser


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## ToddJB

Allen, that's stunning!

Hears what I came up with…










Not nearly as impressive, but should do the job for a couple of shanks.

Decided to go this route because the brick store was further away than Ace and I already had everything on hand except Plaster of Paris, so cost was nominal.


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## bobasaurus

Todd, that looks great too. I'm impressed at everyone who builds their own forges. Seemed like too much of a task for me, so I was stuck paying for one.

My anvil is not terribly impressive, it's pretty beat up and mostly cast iron, but it seems solid. I have it bolted to a heavy metal stand I bought at auction a while back, probably weighs 3 times more than the little anvil.


----------



## HokieKen

That's just awesome Allen!

Todd, that's more my speed


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## terryR

Nice set up, Allen. Looks quite sturdy. That's the same model I'd want for forging. No way I'd try to build a torch.

Had no idea a real forge stayed hot so long! Good thing I haven't pulled the trigger since it would have to live inside the goat fence, and would need adult supervision.

Todd, that should work, dude.


----------



## Boatman53

Love these forges everyone in showing. I really could use one of those. Someday when I'm not soooo busy.
Jim


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## ToddJB

Jim that one took me about an hour and cost me $8 dollars out of pocket. If it gets me through a few projects it'll be more than worth it. If you had to buy all the pieces it'd be around $20 - if you already have a torch.


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## Boatman53

I know Todd, I just don't see much time for forging in the near future but I do love getting steel hot.
Jim


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## sepeck

I miss my friends forge. Made some armor there, helped him make some blades, camp accessories. Sigh, for now, need to continue focus on the woodworking part to reduce that list. But these small scale forges give me hope to play some more in future.


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## terryR

I didn't think of it till just now…
But a smaller forge can be made from a soup can. very cheap. could be awesome for heat treating small stuff! less wasted gas, too, for something like these drivers.

I think I'm driving over to Allen's shop this weekend!


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## bobasaurus

Hah, come on over Terry. Colorado is a short enough drive from Alabama, right?

Here's another shot of the forge in front of my small shop:










Got a list of small tools I'll try making with it this weekend.


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## donwilwol

I would have never guessed a screwdriver swap would have producted such a overload you of mass enablement! I got to stop hanging out here!

Off to Google Chile Habañero 2 burner forge!


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## bobasaurus

It enabled the crap out of me, Don. To be fair, I had planned this well before the swap. I've been accumulating blacksmithing tools for a while now waiting to do this.

BONUS PICTURE:


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## jeffswildwood

I now have set my sights on the last shank. The big phillips. This one is giving me a fit! Two tries so far but no luck. I see what I need to do, cut more blanks and adjust them a bit. (Cutting a quarter to half inch longer should accommodate the larger ferrel and shaft). I can't believe I have been through all sixteen blanks I started with! This has been a true learning experience.

If I can get this one done this week end I'll have my goal. Do some final shaping and start the bonus items. So far I like what I see and I hope the new owner does also, whoever that may be!


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## DLK

I wonder what you are doing the big philips was the easiest for me.


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## jeffswildwood

Don, I just had all the blanks cut for the mid size and small shafts. It worked for the big slot also. I can't get the shape I want with the longer ferrel. Just a matter cutting a new blank or two about a quarter inch longer. Also when I tried last I could not make a trip to my neighbors to use his drill press so I tried my luck at hand drilling for the shaft. Not much luck with that. Once I get some nice holes drilled I anticipate no problems.


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## jmartel

Decisions decisions. Which to use for the swap?

Khaya with some ribbon stripe or curly maple?


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## Ripthorn

That's easy, both!


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## jeffswildwood

+1 for Brian. Both are beautiful! I know I would have a hard time deciding!


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## HokieKen

Yep, those are gorgeous boards!

I finished turning the first set of handles today. Just finished sanding and got a coat of oil on. Here's a teaser…


----------



## HokieKen

And an "abstract" teaser


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## bobasaurus

Lookin good there, Ken.

I managed to make a hardie cutter and a kitchen knife today using the forge, exciting times.

For inspiration, check out this amazing screwdriver I saw on instagram:



















a so-called perfect handle screwdriver.


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## AgentTwitch

I need to figure out how to make this work. After lots of botched attempts and little shop time remaining, I am getting nervous. I really liked the hornbeam I was turning, but am running out, lol.


----------



## Ripthorn

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but if someone needs something drilled out, I will do it if you send it to me. Just let me know the hole diameter and I can stick it on the lathe and do it. It might not be very easy logistically, but whatever.


----------



## DLK

My trick was to drill the hole first. Rough shape the handle with saws and rasp. Screw in a hanger bolt into the hole and insert the other end into the drill press. Now spinning the wood blank I finalized shaping the handle using rasps, files and sand paper. In theory the hole should be centered and straight. I then on occasions I re-drilled deeper, cut slots for the "wings" or cut the holes square. I did screw up the latter a couple of times. This worked fine for 1/4 inch and larger shanks but I have trouble with the 1/8 inch because the 1/8 hanger bolt was to weak to stand up the the pressure while sanding on the drill press.


----------



## AgentTwitch

My struggle has been lack of skill using the 5/8" spindle gouge. Fortunately, I have been able to drill centered holes, turn the tenon for the ferrule, size the spindle for each area that tapers and swells…but my technique with the spindle gouge destroys 75% of my blanks. When turning a cove I go downhill, but somehow it catches just right and goes uphill (called runback) causing a deep gash/spiral in my work.





 at the 16:05 mark provides what I am talking about. Might have to follow his solution for fixing it, too!

I have attempted to avoid using it, but my use of the skew chisel will likely give me the same result.

I see a few options that can get me past this:
1.) Practice, practice, practice on scrap.
2.) Find a handle design that doesn't require the use of these tools for now.
3.) Accept all gouges in the turned work as "character" and gleefully pass these handles on to a swap recipient.

*Note: Option 3 isn't an option. It's my throw away course of action.*

Allen, that burl in the perfect handle screw driver makes me way to invest in a resin stabilizing chamber. The burl is beautiful!


----------



## HokieKen

FWIW Norm, when I cut coves with steep sides like that, I rough them out with a parting tool then finish them with a small gouge and/or scraper. That's probably not the "proper" way but it works for me.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Kenny, I think I know what you mean and have done that with some of my tapered tennons. I havent tried it with the cove cut, but I will give it a try. Thanks for the advice


----------



## terryR

Norm, do you have any sort of scraping chisel? Just keep it level and on the centerline of the spinning wood. Slower, but fewer catches. Even a parting tool can be used as a scraper. Detail gouges take finesse and practice.

I keep pushing these tools because they are simple, and let you turn as soon as you take the chisel out of the box. Expensive, but so user friendly!










Worst case scenario, a file can also shape spinning wood without catches. Lots of sandpaper, too.


----------



## terryR




----------



## bobasaurus

My lathe technique for screwdrivers is to put the blank between centers, get it close to round, then remove the live center in the tailstock and put in the jacobs chuck with a drill bit the right size. I align the divot in the blank to the end of the drill bit, use the quill handwheel to start feeding in the bit to hold the blank in place, then turn on the lathe while increasing pressure on the quill handwheel. The drill bit acts as a "dead" center and drills the hole while keeping the blank semi-aligned. When the hole is at the correct depth, I turn off the lathe and replace the live center, which will center on the drilled hole. I then re-true the blank to round, as my hole is never perfectly centered, and turn the ferrule tenon followed by the rest of the handle.


----------



## jmartel

Looks like Bubinga terry?


----------



## DLK

If only my lathe had a morse taper tail stock. But thats another story …. or thread…


----------



## Mosquito

if only my lathe were… a lathe…


----------



## terryR

correct, JI.D. Hope you like it! 

Allen does it the same way I do…but I use a chuck on the headstock.


----------



## bobasaurus

Terry, do you square your blanks then hold the square end in your chuck before roughing?


----------



## terryR

No, I round stuff over between centers, then put the round into the chuck. almost always. then carefully bore the hole in front, and the live center secures that hole for the rest of the shaping.

kinda like this










almost always parting off with a saw, then filing the butt end clean. just my method…


----------



## putty

Terry, have you experimented with a super glue finish?


----------



## bobasaurus

Looks good, Terry. What live center is that?


----------



## DLK

Nice Terry.


----------



## terryR

putty, yes. Had to squirt some in a crack on a piece of firewood, so used it for the finish. Use the thin stuff. squirt on a paper towel and just apply to the wood while slowly spinning. easy. If it develops waves, sand smooth.

Allen, cannot remember the brand, but came with multiple parts to insert into the tip of the cone. very useful!


----------



## putty

Terry, here is a bottle stopper with about 12 coats of thin superglue, wet sanded to 2000 grit then used plastic polish. It may be too slick for a screwdriver handle though
it was the first time and I burnt through the finish in a couple of spots


----------



## jeffswildwood

Wow, you guys are talking a language I don't understand! Quill handwheel? Jacobs chuck? Super glue finishing? Burl stabilizing chambers? I am truly lost. I have never heard of any of these things….but it sure sounds interesting!!!


----------



## DLK

Jeff that electric drill you own has a Jacobs chuck.


----------



## bobasaurus

Hah, lathe terms sound more complicated than they are. I had to google the right term before typing that out.


----------



## jmartel

The rotating thingy. That's the technical term.


----------



## HokieKen

Except the quill, that's the translating thingy. And the quill handwheel is the rotating thingy that translates the translating thingy. And Super Glue finishing is exactly what it sounds like ;P


----------



## AgentTwitch

Terry, those Easy Wood Tool chisels are definately worth a look. I may have to make a purchase to check them out. I beleive there is a website that sells a DIY version of that concept as well. http://www.harrisonspecialties.com/ interchangeable handle version of a similar product.

Jeff, the resin stabilizing chamber is what blue spuce and other tool manufacturers use to completely saturate (inside and out) wood with a resin. It makes the wood much more durable (Blue Spruce uses it on their mallet heads) and you can take wood that was punky or full of voids and use it any number of applications that were not doable before. The chamber removes the air from the wood and sucks the resin into the pores of the wood, completely filling it. After it has had enough time in the chamber, stick it in a toaster oven (dedicated to your shop and not Momma's kitchen applianes) until it cures. I have dreams of owning one for stabilizing some figured wood I picked up for tool parts. (Oh yeah, you can dye it to change the woods color, and buff the resin to your desired sheen, no need to apply finish).

More info on the subject here

Edit: Captn Eddie sells the square rod with carbide cutters. The Super Turners Package has 2 rods, 9 carbide cutters and extra screws for $135 (Link here)


----------



## woodcox

Que the banjos. Yup.


----------



## terryR

putty, that looks far nicer than anything I've produced with CA. Awesome! sandbagger! LOL!

Norm, I hate to talk bad about folks, but I'd avoid a captEddie tool. I have one, and the round shaft is only 3/8" and chatters horribly. My fault for purchasing that one! Go for 1/2" square shanks. The square shanks slide along your tool rest without rotating. More difficult to seat in the handle, yes. Splurge, and get an Easy Wood. You'll enjoy the tool for YEARS. The time you save could be your own.


----------



## sepeck

I have a mid sized R2 easy and a full size finishing. They work well.
Also, Lumberjocks has a few resources on making your own. http://lumberjocks.com/JoeinGa/blog/52914

Dema's Workshop has some videos on casting as well and building stabilizing chambers and some comparisons. This is not a mouse hole I have ventured down yet, but seeing as I am mentally costing out prices and budgets I suspect by years end I will make time.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Terry, thanks for the review. I appreciate your feedback based on first hand experience and will avoid Capn Eddies.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Yea, my lack of knowledge is showing. Thanks for the education guys. I have been schooled!  That chamber thingy, woops, stabilizing chamber sounds fascinating. I have a maple tree in my yard with two large burls on it. I better leave them alone for now though, wife loves the tree too much yet I do see it going down hill. not many years left on it.


----------



## DLK

Just discovered this in A Course in Wood Turning by Milton and Wohled:










What is the meaning of the shaded areas?


----------



## Boatman53

Hi Don, he shaded areas are the profile of the wood at the center of the shaded area. Like a cross section. The handle is oval, but up near the blade it is round.
Jim


----------



## DLK

Thanks Jim, I thought maybe so. But then how did he turn it oval. I'll have to read the book I guess.


----------



## terryR

Easy, an off-center chuck.
Or a shop-built off-center jam chuck.


----------



## DLK

> Easy, an off-center chuck.
> Or a shop-built off-center jam chuck.
> 
> - terryR


Well more to learn. My bearing is supposed to arrive today, so maybe more turning in the future. I'll need chuck lessons. Not that you care except it shows my impatience to ask first and read later but you are right and here are the instructions on oval turning found in Miltons and Wohlers book:


----------



## Ripthorn

More than likely the oval shape is achieved by taking the piece turned round and then flattening an area out by hand. That is much quicker, especially if you don't have a lathe or a lathe where you can easily mount things off center (like where the center point of a spur drive center is too wide for the spacing needed for the eccentricity desired).


----------



## waho6o9

> And an "abstract" teaser
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


Off set the ends of the turning is another way of creating an oval.

Face shield is advised.


----------



## jmartel

You can also just cut a rectangular blank instead of a square blank. Leave 2 sides flat when roughing. Then use a rasp to round over the edges into an oval. In the photo above it would be 1-1/4"x 7/8"ish.


----------



## DLK

A face shield is in the mail.

Thanks for the video. It would be nice to use those centers but alas I do not have a morse taper tail or head stock.


----------



## DLK

> You can also just cut a rectangular blank instead of a square blank. Leave 2 sides flat when roughing. Then use a rasp to round over the edges into an oval. In the photo above it would be 1-1/4"x 7/8"ish.
> 
> - jmartel


Yes that was my first thought and is how I have done it. But I was curious how it was done via turning as the diagram was included in a Wood Turning course book. I like this book by the way because it is as ancient as my finally in working order lathe. Hence it shows procedures using the same dead tail stock center as I have.


----------



## HokieKen

> Off set the ends of the turning is another way of creating an oval.
> 
> Face shield is advised.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - waho6o9


Yep, that's exactly what those marks are. Just be as precise as possible when laying out the center points that they're in line with each other and that the distances are equal or you'll end up with a lopsided oval that's not symmetric. Ask me how I know ;P

In addition the the face shield, make sure you slow the lathe speed down and take light passes. It can take a bit of getting used to making the interrupted cuts. All-in-all, it's a pretty simple process once you get the hang of it and scrap 3 or 4 blanks figuring it all out.


----------



## Mosquito

Looks like we're coming up on the "progress pictures" deadline of next Monday, under a week!


----------



## jeffswildwood

A collective OMG can be heard throughout the land. Send to LumberJocks.Swaps @ Gmail.com?


----------



## waho6o9

LOL

Doneski with one and there's another in the works.


----------



## waho6o9

Upside down teaser pic


----------



## DLK

My fault you got the reminder from Mos I think. I sent my "progress picture in today.. Sorry …:-]


----------



## waho6o9

LumberJocks.Swaps @ Gmail.com

Not a valid email ^^

Anyone else have that happen?


----------



## bobasaurus

gotta remove the spaces, waldo


----------



## waho6o9

so it's a period and not a comma?

Got it, thanks Allen and it's a period.


----------



## bobasaurus

I believe this is the exact address:

[email protected]

There are no commas in it, or spaces.

The case shouldn't matter.


----------



## ToddJB

Some of my supplies still haven't shown up! ha. I might doing some impromptu work.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Mosquito, Progress pic sent. I hope you like what you see!


----------



## waho6o9

Progress pics sent.


----------



## jmartel

Sent progress photos. Not far along at all yet, though.


----------



## HokieKen

My progress pics are sent.


----------



## Mosquito

bobasaurus was correct, no spaces or commas, just periods. I did it that way to try to help cut down on spam from website crawlers. At least the stupid ones.


----------



## Mosquito

I've added a list of participants who have already sent progress pictures.


----------



## waho6o9

Got another one done, yeah buddy.


----------



## bobasaurus

Sorry I made it crawl-able, Mos.


----------



## bearkatwood

Start with wood










Add some metal stuff
and some goop.










and Bob's your Father's Brother.

Screw it with this, I'm done.


----------



## DLK

Whats the goop? And whats is it for?


----------



## bearkatwood

turquoise for inlay.


----------



## DLK

Ah yes. Just found a video on how to fill with it. I'll have to give it a try.


----------



## bearkatwood

It comes in a variety of sizes, it is crushed turquoise.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Found this today, interesting. http://lumberjocks.com/topics/42397


----------



## wormil

Progress pic sent.


----------



## Mosquito

First post should be up to date with who's submitted progress pictures. Let me know if you're not on the list and you've sent progress pictures.

If you're not in the list and you'd like to be, send me some progress pictures  Tomorrow is the preferred deadline for progress pictures from active participants.

Also a reminder that we're hoping people can start shipping on May 18th


----------



## Babieca

That awkward moment when you are cutting the blank you plan to use and you find someone living in there.


----------



## ToddJB

Teaser










Sending progress now, Mos.


----------



## bobasaurus

I just need the weather to improve so I can work on mine, assuming I don't screw (ha ha) it up too badly before the end.


----------



## terryR

Another tease,










progress pic coming later today…


----------



## ShaneA

Picture sent.


----------



## HokieKen

What kind of wood is that that peels off in those wide blue ribbons Terry? ;P


----------



## jeffswildwood

Maybe blue spruce??


----------



## bobasaurus

Why the block between the wood and live center, Terry?


----------



## ToddJB

I'm betting that it's so the live center doesn't widen his pre-drilled shank hole.


----------



## 7Footer

Mos, I should have a progress pic for you late tonight, but it's probably gonna be past your bedtime.

Some pretty sexy teaser pics around here…


----------



## Mosquito

If this were the "SotS" thread I'd be all over that 7' lol

No worries


----------



## Mosquito

Still waiting on a few into the evening… please get progress pictures to me by end of day today, or let me know if it doesn't look like you'll be able to participate.

Thanks!


terryr
7Footer
SignWave
MNClone
ErikF
bmwaits
KayBee


----------



## fatandy2003

Progress pic sent.

Teaser:


----------



## terryR

photos coming in seconds…

I used the wooden jig to push the ferrule on during glue up…didn't want to epoxy the ferrule to my lathe.


----------



## KayBee

I've got some progress, but I'm gonna have to bail. Mom just got move to hospice care and I'm guessing time is going to start running out. (It's ok, sick sense of humor runs in the family.)


----------



## Iguana

Turned a few handles today. I'm making 30 in total, this is really good lathe practice!


----------



## jmartel

Dang that's a lot of handles.

Bit of a teaser from me tonight. One down, 5 more to go.


----------



## DLK

Thats is a lot of handles. I was also going to do 30. But traded 6 of the Grace shanks for some sharpening and decided to wait on 18 and only do 6 until after I see what I get in the Swap.

So how does it work now. Does Mos eventually randomly select to whom we are to send to and email us an address?


----------



## Mosquito

I hope to get names/address out next week. I'll randomize the list once I've got responses from everyone still on the list, or by end of this week whichever comes first

FYI: if I don't get progress pictures by Friday afternoon I'm going to drop you from the participants list.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Mosquito, I bet seeing all those progress pics is *exciting*. Seeing all those screwdrivers that are about to be revealed in just a short time. Are you still going to forward pics to grace? I bet they will be amazed!


----------



## Mosquito

It is fun seeing the various states of the different projects, that's for sure.

I was planning on grabbing some pictures off of here of the finished items, compiling them and then sending off to Grace, and thanking them for working with us to offer the kits to help us out.


----------



## DLK

I need to either send mine out before May 17 or after May 23.


----------



## Mosquito

Shouldn't be too big of a problem Don. I should have the names/addresses out next week Monday at the latest, giving people a week and a half to get things wrapped up and shipped out.


----------



## DLK

Of course I could just hand them to you, as I will be at MSP on the 18-th.


----------



## Mosquito

hey there you go  I live a little further from the airport than I used to, but it's a lot closer than MI!

For the last handplane swap my awesome shoulder plane was apparently hand delivered, as I lived quite close to where MNClone worked


----------



## DLK

I'll be in Shakopee on the 17-th for 4 days. Picking up a friend at MSP on the 18-th delivering him back to MSP on the 21-st. We could have beer or coffee.


----------



## jmartel

The good thing about running the swap is that Mos gets all the photos and can pick which ones he wants.


----------



## bmwaits

Finally able to get all my supplies last week, ready to turn now. Loved the look of this… thought it would be nice. Might have to make myself one too!


----------



## Mosquito

> The good thing about running the swap is that Mos gets all the photos and can pick which ones he wants.
> 
> - jmartel


I should lol I've already set up a randomizer in my excel spreadsheet so all I have to do is keep hitting randomize until I like what I get 

*Terry* Nope, *7Footer* Nope, *JMart* Nope,....



> I ll be in Shakopee on the 17-th for 4 days. Picking up a friend at MSP on the 18-th delivering him back to MSP on the 21-st. We could have beer or coffee.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I'll have a Drs appointment sometime on the 18th, so I'll probably have the afternoon off. I drink neither beer nor Coffee, but that hasn't stopped me from going to a bar or coffee shop in the past


----------



## bobasaurus

bmwaits, is that Australian wood (being upside-down and all)? Hah. It's got some nice grain through there.

The weather is finally improving, I can soon resume working on mine.


----------



## ToddJB

So, I was just curious if I could pick up a cheap set of hardness testing files - crap those little boogers are expensive. I guessed $20 for a set, not 5X that.


----------



## sepeck

> I drink neither beer nor Coffee, but that hasn t stopped me from going to a bar or coffee shop in the past
> 
> - Mosquito


Something we share in common Mos…


----------



## bobasaurus

Todd, I buy old files off Ebay and usually they're still sharp and work great. Heller is a nice brand if you can find it, but anything US, Swiss, or German made will be good.


----------



## DLK

> I ll have a Drs appointment sometime on the 18th, so I ll probably have the afternoon off. I drink neither beer nor Coffee, but that hasn t stopped me from going to a bar or coffee shop in the past
> 
> - Mosquito


I'll e-mail you my itinerary when I know it better.


----------



## ToddJB

> Todd, I buy old files off Ebay and usually they re still sharp and work great. Heller is a nice brand if you can find it, but anything US, Swiss, or German made will be good.
> 
> - bobasaurus


Thanks Allen, I'll keep my peepers peeled.


----------



## 7Footer

Mos only hit refresh on mine because I told him my bonus item is The Accommodator… Toddwick knows what I'm talking about….. lol


----------



## bmwaits

Bobasaurus - it is marblewood! Very cool looking. Maybe it'll be yours!


----------



## HokieKen

Okay, here's a poll. I'm finished with my swap items and I think I'll get enough shop time for a "bonus" item. So, if I had your name, would you prefer an additional driver (of some sort TBD) or, a rack/tote/box/roll to hold the drivers I already made? Not making any promises here, just wondering who prefers what


----------



## DLK

I would prefer to be surprised.


----------



## Mosquito

Don and I think alike lol


----------



## jmartel

I'd prefer approximately $10,000 in unmarked small bills if I had my choice.


----------



## HokieKen

> I d prefer approximately $10,000 in unmarked small bills if I had my choice.
> 
> - jmartel


If your definition of "approximately" means +/- 10,000 then I can handle that. ;P


----------



## jeffswildwood

I too would prefer to be surprised. I have also finished my set and hard at work on the bonus item. I wish I could post a teaser but I'm afraid that would give it away. Mosquito got a sample pic with my progress pics.  Instead of the 10,000, maybe a pound of $20's would work. There's a math question!


----------



## jmartel

$9200 if you round up to the nearest $20. A bill weighs about 0.987 grams according to google.


----------



## bearkatwood

Just to make sure I am covered


----------



## terryR

These are the hardness testing files I use, japanese.

http://www.amazon.com/Flexbar-Hardness-Testing-File-Set/dp/B001CTI7TE

never thought of vintage.

"bonus item should be a surprise, not necessarily related to swap item at all." -LJ Swap Rules 10:04

mine's done…


----------



## sepeck

> These are the hardness testing files I use, japanese.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Flexbar-Hardness-Testing-File-Set/dp/B001CTI7TE
> 
> never thought of vintage.
> 
> "bonus item should be a surprise, not necessarily related to swap item at all." -LJ Swap Rules 10:04
> 
> mine s done…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - terryR


SO, your bonus item is a plane? That's awesome!


----------



## jmartel

Alright, put some time in this week and got my swap items done early for once. No rushing around at the last minute like previous swaps.

I'm pretty happy with them considering they are only my second project ever on a lathe. Still haven't made myself anything with it to keep, yet.


----------



## jeffswildwood

If they are like the box I received from you in the box swap, They will be wonderful!


----------



## summerfi

I'm not in the swap but I thought you guys might like to see the little split nut driver I made yesterday. Just for the novelty of it I turned the handle out of a piece of our native mountain maple, aka vine maple, like the chunk pictured. That's about as big as it gets here.


----------



## wormil

Wow, nice looking driver Bob. You should be in the swap.


----------



## bearkatwood

Nice driver Bob.


----------



## AgentTwitch

What did you make the split driver bit out of, Bob? I really dig the shape of the handle for applying lots of downward pressure.


----------



## summerfi

Norm, it's made out of a piece of spring saw steel.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Makes sense, Bob. I have some spare .032 I thought would be useful for some split drivers.


----------



## putty

Nice Bob, I like the grain in that maple!


----------



## Mosquito

Alright, Official participants have now been determined, and I will be getting people their recipients today. I'll report back once I've gotten them all e-mailed out.


----------



## bearkatwood

Cool, very exciting!! Thanks.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Mine are done and ready. Finished bonus item this week-end. I, for one, can't wait to see all the finished products. Exciting! One question, is the 18th the "ship" date or the "ship by" date.


----------



## bearkatwood

Wait! What? Bonus item? Were we supposed to make a bonus item??


----------



## DLK

No bonus items are not required, otherwise they would have just been called well …. items.

Incidentally IMHO, bonus items should be a surprise and kept secrete. For otherwise their announcement puts undue pressure on Brian (and others). LOL.


----------



## bearkatwood

Man you had me sweating there for a second.  Too much pressure.


----------



## Mosquito

lol nope bonus items are for the overachievers 

May 18th is the "Ship By" date. Meaning once you receive your recipients name and address you can immediately head to the post office and ship it out today if you want, or you can wait until the 18th, but we'd like to have everyone's in the hands of a carrier by the 18th at the latest. That way we can have plenty of time for people to receive their items by the 1st, hopefully.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Sorry I said bonus item. I guess I should have said gift? Not required, just something I wanted to do. From me to whoever gets mine. A lot of people have been really helpful and kind to me so I wanted to do a little something. I hope I didn't create pressure! It was not my intent.  I guess I should have stayed quiet, just got a bit excited. Forgiven I hope?


----------



## ToddJB

You're fine Jeff, don't worry about. Brian is the one that should be apologizing for not having is mandatory bonus item already done. 

xoxo, Todd (who is stressing about the 18th, and not even considering a bonus item at this point)


----------



## Mosquito

I'm waiting on a confirmation from someone, but the randomization is done and I will get the names out as soon as I hear back.

Bonus item. I have ambitions, but we'll see if it happens lol


----------



## jeffswildwood

Chris, I finally got a chance to watch your videos this week-end. Wow, I really like them a lot! The cherry shadowbox series is great. As a power tool user, I love watching people who work strictly with hand tools.


----------



## bearkatwood

Todd, you are totally right. I should be apologizing. If I had any idea that you guys were so cool as to add it extras (which I should have known as I have been on this site long enough to know how great you all are) then I would have thrown together an extra, but as it is I am way too swamped to even think about it. I am currently working on 12 chairs, a bench, suitcases, three videos and trying to get some tool prototypes made.. busy, busy. So no extras from me!  or maybe…


----------



## ToddJB

If my bonus it gets done, then I'll work on a gift item. If I get that done - then I've got an idea for a benevolence item. And then at that point I might start working on an altruism item, but first I have to decide if altruism exists… I'll keep you all up to date.


----------



## bobasaurus

I got some more work done on mine yesterday. Hopefully I'll finish on time. Here's a teaser pic:


----------



## ToddJB

Also, this might be a no brainer to some of you, but it was a revelation to me over the weekend. I was having a hell of a time getting my hole drilled straight in my handles - so here is how I started doing them:










Get to round. Drill, burn, epoxy, then turn.

Note this is not a swap driver. This set is for my FIL retirement.


----------



## terryR

^that's hot!


----------



## HokieKen

I spent last week trying to decide what to make for a bonus item. I still haven't decided but found out I'm going out of town quite a bit for work the next few weeks so I most likely won't get much, if any, shop time before the ship date. Glad I at least have the swap items ready to ship.

For the record Todd, I will accept a bonus item and/or a gift item. However, my altruism dictates that I insist, should you get my name, that you send any benevolence item to someone in greater need than myself and should you send me an altruism item, my benevolence will dictate that I donate to someone else. Unless you decide altruism doesn't exist. Then I'm off the hook and I'll hoard it all! ;>P


----------



## jmartel

Brian, if I'm your swap partner, I'll gladly accept one of those chairs as a bonus item.


----------



## HokieKen

What the hell did you do to that goldfish Allen?!


----------



## bobasaurus

Todd, is that a drill bit in the chuck and a live center on the tailstock? Or did you put a drive/spur center in the tailstock?


----------



## ToddJB

This is the screwdriver shank already glued into the wood block, held by the chuck, with the live center in the tailstock. With the nova g4 chuck this works by taking the jaws off and just using the chuck itself. Works with both the round and square drivers.

Makes for perfectly aligned drivers, and makes finishing the top of the driver easier too since you can part completely off and just sand it on the lathe. Though note, I am doing most of my sanding before I part it off.

Kenny, deal. The reality is though I'll likely only get to an existential item - where I am the item, you are the item, Mos' toilet paper is the item.


----------



## bobasaurus

That's clever, Todd. I like how you think.


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny, deal. The reality is though I ll likely only get to an existential item - where I am the item, you are the item, Mos toilet paper is the item.
> 
> - ToddJB


I believe Mos' toilet paper will simultaneously be the item and not be the item until your recipient opens the box and observes the state of the toilet paper. I also believe the shipping cost for me, you and Mos' TP is gonna kill you… ;P


----------



## Mosquito

lol Are we talking literal TP or the "moxon TP"? 

All the participants should have been e-mailed a Swap Recipient (<->t get the e-mail, or if you receive more than one.


----------



## Ripthorn

> I believe Mos toilet paper will simultaneously be the item and not be the item until your recipient opens the box and observes the state of the toilet paper. I also believe the shipping cost for me, you and Mos TP is gonna kill you… ;P
> 
> - HokieKen


As a physicist, I wholeheartedly approve of this comment.


----------



## ToddJB

Got it. Thanks Mos!


----------



## waho6o9

"So no extras from me!  or maybe…"

Too funny, thanks for the laugh.


----------



## HokieKen

Got mine Mos.


----------



## bearkatwood

I'll see if I can sneak a chair in the envelope as an "EXTRA"


----------



## AgentTwitch

You guys are killing me! Even though I got an early start, I am still not finished…Slacker for life, I guess.


----------



## sepeck

I was on track until a death in the family. Back on track but lost a week.


----------



## Iguana

I was on track until my wife decided I had other plans. Back on track but lost a week.


----------



## Mosquito

I had one of those "Should have just stayed away from the shop" nights tonight… working on a bonus item, but ended up with nothing but varying degrees of "pretty" firewood…


----------



## AgentTwitch

I have had a few too many of those 'should have left good enough alone' moments. I think I have four handles in the waste bin and one on the floor of the shop that had to be split in two with a chisel. I was too angry to put it in the burn pile, I just left it on the floor so I can kick it later.


----------



## DLK

I want to make just more more tweak, but haven't worked up the courage to do so, because it may also turn out to be another 'should have left good enough alone' moment. I'm glad I did not work on it yesterday. Yesterday I repaired a screen door. Today I will buy more screen and do it again. Grrr.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Got mine Chris, hope to have it in the mail by the end of the week.


----------



## terryR

Guys, don't overlook an excellent bonus gift already in your shop…
wood.

And, it's just an extra…not required at all. I only made 4 drivers for this swap, so planned on a small bonus from the start.


----------



## AgentTwitch

In the home stretch now…First stages of finishing the handles are underway.


----------



## HokieKen

> Guys, don t overlook an excellent bonus gift already in your shop…
> wood.
> 
> And, it s just an extra…not required at all. I only made 4 drivers for this swap, so planned on a small bonus from the start.
> 
> - terryR


I'll second that. If you are of a mind to do a bonus and are stumped as to what to do, a little piece of exotic or figured wood will probably put a smile on your recipients face.


----------



## waho6o9

An interesting read on heat treating for future reference:

http://www.threeplanes.net/toolsteel.html


----------



## waho6o9

Mailed by screwdrivers today along with an apology it was a fun build

and I'm looking forward to all the contributions.

Mine were built to be used and they weren't perfect but I tried my best and meet the deadline
Woo Hoo.


----------



## ToddJB

That's a good article. Thanks. And congrats on getting them out of the shop - that always feels good.


----------



## putty

Thanks for posting that article Wahoo…I saved it in my favorites.


----------



## waho6o9

You're welcome for the link I found it interesting as well.

It sure was neat getting the project out on time no doubt, and with a gift to boot.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Just got back from the post office. Mine are on the way to their recipient. I hope he likes them and they measure up. They are set to arrive Sat.


----------



## HokieKen

Looks like Jeff gets the "eager beaver" award ;P Very cool Jeff. Somebody gets a nice surprise Saturday.


----------



## ToddJB

> Just got back from the post office. Mine are on the way to their recipient. I hope he likes them and they measure up. They are set to arrive Sat.
> 
> - jeffswildwood


If you're concerned about how well your swap items measure, I'm concerned that you missed the theme of the swap. You should be concerned about how well they screw (calm down, 7).


----------



## jmartel

It's not the size of the screwdriver that counts, its how well it screws.


----------



## bobasaurus

I started grinding on mine yesterday, after battling the stationary belt sander for about the 10th time (it always needs repairs, it seems… this time I put on a link belt). Some blood was shed, but it's coming along.


----------



## jeffswildwood

> Mailed by screwdrivers today along with an apology it was a fun build
> 
> and I m looking forward to all the contributions.
> 
> Mine were built to be used and they weren t perfect but I tried my best and meet the deadline
> Woo Hoo.
> 
> - waho6o9


----------



## jeffswildwood

I don't think I get the eager beaver award, 2nd runner up.

Todd, true True!


----------



## HokieKen

Oh yeah, I guess I missed that post. Sorry Wahoo!


----------



## HokieKen

> I started grinding on mine yesterday, after battling the stationary belt sander for about the 10th time (it always needs repairs, it seems… this time I put on a link belt). Some blood was shed, but it s coming along.
> 
> - bobasaurus


In light of the 2 previous posts, this just seems wrong…


----------



## jeffswildwood

I got so excited about finishing I had to share one:

Oh wait, we were not to post yet!

Just kidding, this was my first (of many) attempts, the legendary "prison shank"  Actually, I was also testing my photobucket account and figure out how to use it.


----------



## Mosquito

You may want to resize the image(s) down to no more than 640px wide, as that's the most that will display with out getting cut off by the LJ styles. They could use some help lol


----------



## ToddJB

Dude, both photobucket and LJ's need help. LJ's advertise that they are integrated with PB, and they are, if you take 17 annoying steps to make it happen.


----------



## Mosquito

It's a super easy fix too… just add a style to the images in the box for reply text with max-width: 100%. Won't go beyond the bounds of the column that way… maybe I should bring it up….


----------



## jeffswildwood

First time I tried PB on here. I guess I need some practice on that. I thought it would fit. Thought wrong. I appreciate the advice, it was a bit on the big side. I took it out and tried again.









This time I didn't use PB. Just posted. Much better for a bad first attempt photo.


----------



## Mosquito

I wouldn't worry about it (either) too much. You stumbled on one of the nuances of LJ's. Also, both of my "first attempts" ended up in the burn pile lol


----------



## ToddJB

Good for you having the discipline to throw away wood, Mos. I have a bazillion little pieces of failed lathe-ings sitting around for that perfect storm.


----------



## jeffswildwood

I also have a big box full of small pieces. I'm bad for "I may need this some day". Some became cauls but most are possibly that perfect size that I need. The above "screwdriver", I left on my bench, incentive.


----------



## RichCMD

I got about halfway through, but then I had to travel for a while. I hope to get it finished tonight and tomorrow. Trying to not to be superstitious about the date.


----------



## Mosquito

Oh I have a lot still in the scrap bin, but I had already applied finish to both


----------



## HokieKen

I scrapped quite a few handles trying to find a geometry that I liked. I noticed last night that a couple of them can be turned a little more and should make nice handles for a couple socket chisels I have that are missing them so that was a happy coincidence. And, I modified one of them last night into a handle for my scraper burnisher (aka a chipped carbide endmill). The rest went in the scrap bin awaiting their future reincarnation.

I have to find some packing material and take some pics of my drivers this weekend and they should be on their way to my recipient Monday or Tuesday. Woo Hoo - ahead of the ship date! Barely, but still ahead of it ;P


----------



## Mosquito

I've still got a couple of "will this work" experiments laying around too… 3 of them I think. I tried going for a make shift lathe on the drill press, but wasn't happy with the results from that, so ended up just using a spokeshave instead. Seemed to work out, and also how I did the handles for both mallet swaps, the marking kinfe swap, and anything else that would have been well suited to lathe work lol

*Also a Reminder* that the deadline to get your items shipped is *Next Wednesday May 18th*. Please try to have your items in the mail by then so we can try to get them to the recipients by or before the June 1st reveal date. Thanks!


----------



## sepeck

Have two handles that were going great when SNAP! and suddenly it's shorter. One I am going to make into a handle for my knock out rod and replace that piece of plastic on there.

I think I am going to have to eventually invest in a vacuum chamber setup for resin casting of some of this more figured wood.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Excellent, I am on track still…


----------



## DLK

They are in the mail. How do I communicate the tracking number?


----------



## Mosquito

We haven't required sending tracking in the past, but if you feel so inclined you can send your recipient a PM with the tracking # so they can keep an eye on it if they have to.

My bonus item has finish drying now… makes me happy that it turned out alright


----------



## donwilwol

Mine is in the mailbox.


----------



## waho6o9

A little teaser shot


----------



## sepeck

Bah. Working on the last one, then finish.
Here's a teaser. I got tired of looking at the plastic handle of my lathe knockout rod so I used a waste end piece of the handle I was turning to make a new one and test a finish.


----------



## HokieKen

Mine's packaged and will go out on Monday.


----------



## AgentTwitch

A scene from the workbench…no one was hurt during the filming of this program.


----------



## DLK

^Nice. I hope you frame it.


----------



## wormil

I wasn't paying attention, is this one randomized in that I send to one person and receive from a different person? Or is the person I'm sending to the same as I'm receiving from?


----------



## sepeck

> I wasn t paying attention, is this one randomized in that I send to one person and receive from a different person? Or is the person I m sending to the same as I m receiving from?
> 
> - Rick M.


Different, it's a circle.

Person A sends to B, 
Person B sends to C. 
Person C sends to you.
You send to person E. 
Person E sends to person F, etc.


----------



## wormil

Thanks.


----------



## DLK

I am guessing Mos generated in excel a column of random numbers adjacent to a column of participant names and sorted on the column of random numbers. Thus generating a permutation of the participants. He then copy and pasted the new column of names to be beside the old column of names. Thus the swap so generated could be one or several "circles", aka the cycle structure of the permutation. Or more likely Mos figured out a way to randomize the swap using the Stanley 45.


----------



## waho6o9

The randomizing way of organizing the swap with the Stanley 45 makes the most sense.


----------



## putty

I agree,,, if the 46 was to be used the results would be skewed.


----------



## DLK

I am having swappers remorse. Can I get my drivers back ? I miss them.

Putty! Now thats funny! ..... and the 55 would be way to complicated to get it set up to randomize.


----------



## terryR

random swap is easier than that, Don. just list the dudes, then everyone mails to the entry below them in the list.

Anyone can do it if terryR can!  In fact, it's nearly time for the next volunteer…and ideas on what our shops need…

Nice knockout knob, Steven.

Shooting for the post office tomorrow morning,


----------



## HokieKen

> I agree,,, if the 46 was to be used the results would be skewed.
> 
> - putty


LMAO!


----------



## bearkatwood

I am really excited to see what I get, I love new tools!


----------



## HokieKen

I think Rick M. "Easter-egged" a teaser for us in the first pic of his latest project;P

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/246034


----------



## Babieca

Finished and ready for the mail with a couple days to spare.

Quality and presence of any bonus items will largely depend on how long the baby naps this afternoon.


----------



## DLK

> random swap is easier than that, Don. just list the dudes, then everyone mails to the entry below them in the list.
> 
> - terryR


But ack that would not be randomized. You would know precisely who makes what for whom apriori to the making.


----------



## terryR

only the moderator knows…


----------



## Mosquito

So what I did was set up a #45 with a beading iron, going against the grain in oak. For each person I cut a bead and counted the spots of tearout. I wrote that number down for each person and then sorted based on that. For duplicate numbers I'd set up and do one for each again and sort those two based on that.

Or maybe I used excel, put a "random number" column, sorted the list by that, and then each person sent to the next person on the list, except the last person, who sent to the first person on the list. So essentially a little bit of both 



> I agree,,, if the 46 was to be used the results would be skewed.
> 
> - putty


And this was hilarious lol


----------



## wormil

> I think Rick M. "Easter-egged" a teaser for us in the first pic of his latest project;P
> 
> http://lumberjocks.com/projects/246034
> 
> - HokieKen




Good eye.


----------



## waho6o9

Yeah buddy:










Provided AC is a diameter, angle at B is constant right (90°).


----------



## bobasaurus

I worked on mine yesterday. I'm trying to drill two holes through the handle, but it's proving impossible even with nice high-molybdenum drill bits. Hope I can get it done on time.


----------



## ToddJB

Deletedd. Wrong forum


----------



## jeffswildwood

So happy and relieved. After working for two 12 hour shifts and no electricity in between the two shifts, I just found out mine arrived to their recipient safe and sound!  And in just two days travel time!


----------



## sepeck

> So happy and relieved. After working for two 12 hour shifts and no electricity in between the two shifts, I just found out mine arrived to their recipient safe and sound!  And in just two days travel time!
> 
> - jeffswildwood


Wait what? We lost power here too for an hour!


----------



## jeffswildwood

Mine went out at 6:00 pm yesterday, came on about 11:00pm. Wife said then the cable and internet went out, came back on about 3:00 pm this evening.


----------



## bobasaurus

I knocked out a bonus item today, so I'll get at least that shipped on time. Hopefully I can finish the main thing as well, but it will be a push.


----------



## sepeck

Mine are all done except need to wait until tomorrow night to put the last bit of finish on, so I will be shipping out on schedule as well.


----------



## HokieKen

My drivers are on their way to their new home. I'll miss the lil' fellows but I'm anxiously awaiting their replacement


----------



## jeffswildwood

I know what you mean Ken, as soon as I mailed mine I missed them. I guess it's a wood workers thing. Non wood workers wouldn't understand.


----------



## DLK

So the drivers I mailed from up north are now in Orlando, 700 miles south of where they are supposed to be. Does anyone understand USPS logistics?


----------



## Mosquito

I always think to myself "I'll make one for my self when I've got time", but haven't yet lol


----------



## jmartel

^Truth. I've got more stuff ready for turning. Still sitting in the package.


----------



## DLK

> So the drivers I mailed from up north are now in Orlando, 700 miles south of where they are supposed to be. Does anyone understand USPS logistics?
> 
> - Combo Prof


So now it went further south to Tampa????


----------



## jeffswildwood

> So the drivers I mailed from up north are now in Orlando, 700 miles south of where they are supposed to be. Does anyone understand USPS logistics?
> 
> - Combo Prof


----------



## jeffswildwood

> So the drivers I mailed from up north are now in Orlando, 700 miles south of where they are supposed to be. Does anyone understand USPS logistics?
> 
> - Combo Prof


Lets see, about 700 miles north of Orlando…..THEIR MINE!!!


----------



## HokieKen

> So the drivers I mailed from up north are now in Orlando, 700 miles south of where they are supposed to be. Does anyone understand USPS logistics?
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> Lets see, about 700 miles north of Orlando…..THEIR MINE!!!
> 
> - jeffswildwood


LOL. I googled it too. They could also be mine


----------



## DLK

Indeed its one of you, but I won't say which. 
Maybe you will get them, but it won't be today.


----------



## HokieKen

Since they might get stuck in postal purgatory, I hope they're Jeff's . Just kidding Jeff! I'm sure they'll show up either here or down there in your neck of the woods in a day or two!


----------



## jeffswildwood

Ken, it sounds like you and I both are chomping at the bit! A great surprise is coming for one of us! Amazing how a little tip (700 miles) a little map checking and were both all to pieces!

I bet Don is having a good laugh on us.


----------



## Babieca

It's in the mail!

Bonus item took a strange turn when one particular cutoff started speaking to me. I hope the recipient has a good sense of humor.


----------



## Ripthorn

Items are on their way to the land of my forefathers! Pacific NW here they come!


----------



## DLK

> Ken, it sounds like you and I both are chomping at the bit! A great surprise is coming for one of us! Amazing how a little tip (700 miles) a little map checking and were both all to pieces!
> 
> I bet Don is having a good laugh on us.
> 
> - jeffswildwood


Even worse. I had a panic when I saw this message:

The Postal Service has identified a problem with the processing of this item at 12:29 pm on May 16, 2016 in TAMPA, FL 33605. The local facility has been alerted and is taking steps to correct the problem.

But it turns out to be on something I ordered.

As far as your shipment it now says:

Your item departed our USPS facility in ORLANDO, FL 32824 on May 16, 2016 at 7:14 pm. The item is currently in transit to the destination.

Incidentally it was sent 2-day priority mail on the 14-th. Tomorrow begins the third day of its journey.


----------



## bearkatwood

I had a long hard day and I am completely exhausted, so I found myself staring at that triangle in the circle that waho609 posted for like ten minutes before I realized I was supposed to be doing something. I think that thing was hypnotizing me. 
Driver sent and well received, though to be sure it wasn't my best work ever. This sounded like an easy swap at first, but those things are no joke. Anxiously awaiting mine, thanks for this fun swap!
Now back to that mesmerizing triangle circle thingy


----------



## bobasaurus

Bonus item is completely finished and ready. The main item is currently in a pot of vermiculite and hopefully cooling very slowly so I can drill the blasted thing.


----------



## sepeck

> I had a long hard day and I am completely exhausted, so I found myself staring at that triangle in the circle that waho609 posted for like ten minutes before I realized I was supposed to be doing something. I think that thing was hypnotizing me.
> Driver sent and well received, though to be sure it wasn t my best work ever. This sounded like an easy swap at first, but those things are no joke. Anxiously awaiting mine, thanks for this fun swap!
> Now back to that mesmerizing triangle circle thingy
> 
> - bearkatwood


Since this is my fourth swap, I thought there would be a few challenges, but what I found challenging proved a surprise. Thanks to BigRedKnothead for derailing my original plans with his random post. I ended up doing far more test designs than I had planned and the design I am sending is the result. Pretty happy with the ones I am packaging up for shipping out tomorrow though I have a few personal nits (as usual). Even managed to get an extra, simple, item done.

This is the aw shucks moment of the swap. Where everyone hopes their work will be well received. I learned a lot. Next time some things will be better which is the point. Already putting my slightly improved skills to work making something for my wife.

I got my items Friday. But my personal rule is no opening the package until mine is done and ready. So I got to open them tonight. They look great.


----------



## bearkatwood

> Thanks to BigRedKnothead for derailing my original plans with his random post.
> - sepeck


Somebody really ought to ban that guy from this site, he causes so much trouble with his "ADVISE" and what-not!
What a bug! 
But I guess this place just wouldn't be the same without Red to torture us. Ha!


----------



## HokieKen

> I got my items Friday. But my personal rule is no opening the package until mine is done and ready. So I got to open them tonight. They look great.
> 
> - sepeck


So you had a box of hand-made tools sitting there unopened for 3 days? You have the restraint of a Monk my friend.


----------



## Mosquito

The very first swap we did was Mallets for Christmas a few years ago. We said they shouldn't be opened until people opened gifts for Christmas. I got mine like a week early and boy was that tough lol We've since abandoned that idea (don't open until a certain date) in favor of the reveal date for sharing what you received…


----------



## jeffswildwood

Chris, reveal date is June 2, correct?


----------



## HokieKen

> Thanks to BigRedKnothead for derailing my original plans with his random post…
> 
> - sepeck


I have a feeling the drivers I made may look very similar to the ones you made…


----------



## HokieKen

> Chris, reveal date is June 2, correct?
> 
> - jeffswildwood


6/1 according to OP


----------



## Mosquito

June 1st is correct


----------



## sepeck

> Thanks to BigRedKnothead for derailing my original plans with his random post…
> 
> - sepeck
> 
> I have a feeling the drivers I made may look very similar to the ones you made…
> 
> - HokieKen


They may be cousins of inspiration but test subject feedback dictated changes


----------



## jeffswildwood

June 1 it is. Maybe if I had put on my glasses I would have seen that. What can I say.


----------



## sepeck

And after a triumphant return from FedEx, mine is on it's was as well.


----------



## sepeck

> The very first swap we did was Mallets for Christmas a few years ago. We said they shouldn t be opened until people opened gifts for Christmas. I got mine like a week early and boy was that tough lol We ve since abandoned that idea (don t open until a certain date) in favor of the reveal date for sharing what you received…
> 
> - Mosquito


Well yes, mine is self-imposed. If my schedule hadn't been disrupted mine would have been done last week, but unexpected travel and all that.


----------



## bobasaurus

Even after annealing, I couldn't get the damn holes drilled this morning. Still a hard spot in the middle somewhere. So I took it to my machinist friend today and and he managed to get through it with end mills on an old bridgeport. So tonight I can finally try to finish it.


----------



## clieb91

Package has been shipped! 
Mos, thank you for arranging. It has been fun being involved. I look forward to another opportunity in the future.

CtL


----------



## Mosquito

No problem! It was actually not as much work as I thought it would be… Just a flurry of e-mails to deal with initially, and then the rest comes down to being a little organized (excel).

So who's next? ;-)


----------



## jeffswildwood

> Even after annealing, I couldn t get the damn holes drilled this morning. Still a hard spot in the middle somewhere. So I took it to my machinist friend today and and he managed to get through it with end mills on an old bridgeport. So tonight I can finally try to finish it.
> 
> - bobasaurus


That must really be some hard/strong metal!


----------



## bobasaurus

It felt like drilling diamond, Jeff. I just finished hardening it, now I'm tempering it in the kitchen oven. Here is a very non-specific teaser pic:


----------



## donwilwol

Looks like a….never mind!


----------



## GerryB

Infill screwdriver?

Picture?????


----------



## bobasaurus

Glue is drying now… I am the king of last minute.


----------



## Iguana

My epoxy is.curing now. I'm so last-minute, I'll be late to my own funeral.


----------



## bobasaurus

Mark, we can be procrasti-buddies.

It's after midnight, and I just put a finish coat on mine… I think I'll pull this off somehow.


----------



## bearkatwood

I don't think the teaser pics are supposed to be frightening.
What is that thing? It just scares me. 
Looks like a wound picture in a medical journal or something.


----------



## sepeck

> I don t think the teaser pics are supposed to be frightening.
> What is that thing? It just scares me.
> Looks like a wound picture in a medical journal or something.
> 
> - bearkatwood


Think heated metal.


----------



## bearkatwood

that's even scarier.


----------



## jmartel

Mine will be shipped out after work today. Wasn't able to get a bonus item completed in time. Oh well. I'm sure I can toss some other things in the box.


----------



## DLK

Don't open your swap packages until Don't give up the ship day.


----------



## bobasaurus

Brian, oddly it kind of scares me too and I made it. Kind of like the bronco status at the Denver airport that killed its own creator.

I actually managed to complete it somehow. I'll get it shipped today, huzzah.


----------



## RichCMD

Got it finished, finished it, and then took it to the Post Office to mail it. Would you believe that their computers were down and they could not do anything but sell stamps for cash? Had to jump back in the car and drive to a different PO. It's in the mail now, and someone will soon receive something that I think may be a little different than most of what has been discussed here. I am looking forward to hearing what the recipient thinks of it.


----------



## bobasaurus

*oops, I meant bronco statue. Stupid fingers.


----------



## AgentTwitch

It went out this morning. Hope it makes it safe and sound. Fun project full of "learning experiences". I might turn some more handles while my mistakes are still fresh in my mind


----------



## sepeck

I have at least one file handle right now…... It's a very very nice file handle.


----------



## ToddJB

I got my items last night. Showed zero restraint and opened the package immediately. Shoot-freakin'-dang, they're awesome. I'm pumped. Thanks (you know who you are).

On another note - NOT my swap set. I went a different route for the swap, but I know MOS was going to send pics to Grace, so I thought I would post them here - http://lumberjocks.com/projects/247034


----------



## bobasaurus

Well, I had it ready to ship yesterday with a label and everything but missed the post office hours by a few minutes. So I mailed it this morning. Sorry for the overnight delay, but it's on the way now. I sunk a lot of last minute time into this thing, I hope it's well received.


----------



## Iguana

Mailed mine this morning, too. Gimme a high-five, procrasti-buddy!


----------



## bmwaits

Hey all, I shipped mine today. Excited for my partner to receive it!


----------



## sepeck

Ah hah! Per tracking site on FedEx, my recipients package is on the truck out for delivery today. That reminds me, are we posting pics of what we got now?


----------



## wormil

June 1st is the reveal.

I shipped mine today. Apologies to everyone who was on time. Whenever we plan these swaps it's during my slow times but they are always due during my busy times, I'm just bass ackwards.

Also, received mine and it's beautiful.

When this is all over I want to discuss something I tried and wasn't successful at pulling off (yet).


----------



## HokieKen

I got mine yesterday and I am thrilled with them. It may be just as hard to wait to post pics for y'all to see as it was to wait to receive them!


----------



## Mosquito

It's also hard to project your time out 2 months ahead too, at least that's often what I struggle with


----------



## jeffswildwood

Ken, I guess that solved the mystery, darn! It was 702 miles instead of 705 miles. I'm still climbing the walls with anticipation.

June 1st, is that also the date we can post on the project pages?


----------



## Iguana

The package from sepeck was indeed out for delivery today. It arrived about 5 minutes ago. That's fast service by FedEx. I can't even get a letter across town in under 3 days.

So far , I've resisted the temptation to open it. 7 minutes and counting…


----------



## Mosquito

Typically we request that people hold off on posting a project until after the recipient has a chance to post images of it first, or a few days if the recipient doesn't seem to be around. I guess it could be argued that the recipient has already seen it so it won't ruin the surprise, but that's just usually what we've done in the past


----------



## jeffswildwood

Sounds good Mos.


----------



## sepeck

> The package from sepeck was indeed out for delivery today. It arrived about 5 minutes ago. That s fast service by FedEx. I can t even get a letter across town in under 3 days.
> 
> So far , I ve resisted the temptation to open it. 7 minutes and counting…
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Open away. As soon as I ship mine out I open whatever I received 
After that, it's to late to change mine.


----------



## bearkatwood

Just got my swap stuff and HOLY CRAP!! WOW these swap things are fun and I just got the coolest stuff. I can't wait until the big unavailing day!! I have to start on making a holder to put in my cabinet for it. Very Amazed and super happy!!


----------



## jmartel

I was gonna try and make a holder for it, Brian, but I ran out of time, and I figured you would want to make your own to fit in that awesome cabinet of yours. Now to make the second set of drivers as a gift to my dad for Father's day.


----------



## fatandy2003

You know, there is a lot of pressure when your recipient is the most anxious person on the forum.  I had a finishing issue that flared its head about aa week ago and it took until last night for me to get it semi-resolved. It was good enough to send, but I was still a tad disappointed with the final finish. Go it mailed out first thing this morning. Should be there by Monday…

Cheers,


----------



## Mosquito

Now you've all got me excited to see the final reveals, and I've already seen half of them!


----------



## bobasaurus

I got my items today (yes, more than one!), and they are amazing. Can't wait to show them off. Thank you, wood friend.


----------



## AgentTwitch

I have recieved mine! I love these project swaps!


----------



## waho6o9

http://www.bearkatwood.com/store.html

Highly recommend the wax blocks and thank you for the consideration Brian, u da man!


----------



## bearkatwood

Cool, glad you like them. My wife just ordered me some brown dye to use in them which will make them look more like wood. She got soap dye as it doesn't stain anything or leave a residue. Can't wait for it, they should turn out cool. I also have a new hat design I will be adding to the site this week, they are really nice.
You can order them here.
Wax Blocks


----------



## DLK

Returned home from Minneapolis to find a box of screw drivers and "bonus", that I can't wait to reveal.


----------



## Mosquito

So…. just thought of an idea, who wants to have a shop made toolbox swap next? lol Could use a tool chest for all my Swap items :-D


----------



## sepeck

> So…. just thought of an idea, who wants to have a shop made toolbox swap next? lol Could use a tool chest for all my Swap items :-D
> 
> - Mosquito


That sounds like fun.


----------



## Mosquito

If shipping on my shop art was expensive ooooooh boy lol


----------



## DLK

The problem will be the shipping. If we restrict the size to a large flat rate box. I think it would be possible.
More of a "Tackle box" then a tool chest.


----------



## Ripthorn

Sounds like Combo Prof wants to moderate!


----------



## DLK

Hey here is a brilliant idea that I am sure Mos would be glad to organize. A shop made combination plane box.


----------



## Mosquito

Also, in relating to the screwdriver swap, though not really a "swap" and not at all part of this shop made tool swap; this was in some of the stuff I got when I picked up all my grandpa's remaining shop stuff after he passed away


----------



## Mosquito

> Hey here is a brilliant idea that I am sure Mos would be glad to organize. A shop made combination plane box.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Is a shop made combination plane required? lol Might get a little long


----------



## DLK

No just the box.


----------



## Mosquito

I had ambitions to make a plow plane for the last plane swap, but that sort of fell through when time got tight


----------



## Mosquito

So last week I brought my swap drivers in to the office to show a coworker, and explained what they were for, and now every time he walks by he asks if I got my swap items yet, 'cause he wants to see what the other guy made… kinda fun :-D


----------



## sepeck

> So last week I brought my swap drivers in to the office to show a coworker, and explained what they were for, and now every time he walks by he asks if I got my swap items yet, cause he wants to see what the other guy made… kinda fun :-D
> 
> - Mosquito


Heh. I have a guy I met online through IRC in the same tech field I am. Lives not to far, got him on LumberJocks and he's working on his workbench now, but I've been trying to lure him into the swap insanity. I've learned a ton of things doing them. Kind of like a self directed study class. But a size limit on a tool box would sound sane.


----------



## fatandy2003

Got my swap items over the weekend. WOW! These are great! Including a skill I never would have guessed on a woodworking site.


----------



## clieb91

Mine arrived today. Looking forward to putting it to good use.

CtL


----------



## clieb91

Mos, and I thought my grandfather was the only one that owned one of them…



















found it in his toolbox when I cleaned out his place.

CtL


----------



## jeffswildwood

Got up at 3:30 am this morning for work and got home at 7:00 pm. What a long day but what a great finish to find my swap item arrived! I lasted just long enough to eat dinner before I opened it. Much more then I ever expected. Very beautiful and original. I can't wait to share these beauty's.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Chris, different take on the same idea lol


----------



## 7Footer

I received my package over the weekend. It's very nice. Thank you RichCMD.

Apologies to keep my recipient waiting, it will be at your door on Thursday!


----------



## jeffswildwood

I read the entries about a tool box swap. Sounds interesting. Might be hard with a size restriction but challenging. I have another suggestion. We all have small hardware in everything from small boxes to parts bins. Things like hinges, hasps, brads handles and knobs. How about a small item storage center.










This one is store bought but adding our creative touches to a shop made one might be interesting.


----------



## wormil

I would love watching that swap, but I barely got a screwdriver done so watching is all.


----------



## DLK

Jeff. My thoughts exactly a small parts box ... hinges, hasps, brads handles, knobs,* drill bits, screws, * etc.

Rick M. Also my thoughts. Do I have time for it with so many other projects in the way?


----------



## Mosquito

I wasn't serious when I said tool box, but a parts bin could be doable… any other ideas?


----------



## bearkatwood

I was kind of keen on the knife swap.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

. Have you guys ever done a mortice gage swap ?


----------



## bobasaurus

I also like the knife swap idea, Brian. A chisel swap sounds neat, too. Maybe turning tool swap?

Turtle, we did a measuring/marking tool swap. I made a marking gauge for it.

Edit: I guess it was a dovetail tool swap, my mistake.


----------



## Iguana

Allen, there was a measuring/marking tool swap about two years ago. There was also a dovetail tool swap last year.


----------



## HokieKen

I like the knife swap idea. I'd be up for chisels as well. Measuring/marking sounds fun too. Eventually we're gonna have to recycle themes so I'd say it's fair game even if it has already been done.


----------



## jeffswildwood

The knife swap sounds interesting. Could an old table saw blade be used for this? Would that metal work?


----------



## jmartel

I'm sure it could be used. Would be a fairly thin blade though. O1 steel is pretty cheap though. Only about $20 bucks for 18" worth. Enough for probably 3 knives. .


----------



## ToddJB

I'm not oppose to a knife swap, but I will point out that that project is far more metal working than wood working.


----------



## waho6o9

Hock has some knife kits that would make excellent gifts for our

better halves. I agree with Todd that the metal working would be intense.

http://www.hocktools.com/products/kckp.html


----------



## HokieKen

> The knife swap sounds interesting. Could an old table saw blade be used for this? Would that metal work?
> 
> - jeffswildwood


If it's a blade with carbide tips, probably not. The plates on those blades are normally a mild steel and would be useless for a knife. If it's a blade that has the teeth ground into the plate then it's probably a good tool/HS steel but would probably need to be annealed to work and then re-hardened and tempered afterwards. So you'd have to know exactly what type steel it was to do it properly. Like jmartel said, O1 is readily available online in all shapes and sizes. It's easy to work with files and regular grinders and can be hardened and tempered with a torch, some water and your kitchen oven. IMHO, the cost of a tool steel blank is well worth the convience.

On the other hand, if you've got an old blade, try cutting out a hunk and putting an edge on it. If you can get it so it'll take and hold a good edge, then you've got several knife blanks ready to be used!


----------



## bearkatwood

I like the chisel idea as well.


----------



## Mosquito

> . Have you guys ever done a mortice gage swap ?
> 
> - TheTurtleCarpenter


Like others have said, we have had a marking gauge swap before, but we've also had more than 1 mallet and more than 1 plane swap as well, so always something we could revisit


----------



## DLK

Concerning knives see dbray's new blog.


----------



## Ripthorn

If you ask me, repeats of things like marking knives and marking gauges will always get used in my shop. Multiple marking gauges, for example, let me have one for one measurement and one for another so that I don't have to disturb them on layout intensive projects. I will always use marking knives. Other layout tools are great, mallets are fun. Only about half the fun of a swap is getting something. The other half is the creativity, the camaraderie, and the challenge.

Another swap idea would be something like the board foot challenge, with the stipulation that it fit in a flat rate box (doesn't matter which size, that is up to the sender). Turning tools would be fun, but there is some metal working involved. A knife swap would be a lot of fun. Woodcraft occasionally sells pocket knife kits for $10 or so. For me, the metal working and heat treating are part of the fun, but I recognize it is not for some, nor is it possible for others. I will say, however, that my first infill plane was built using nothing more than a hack saw, drill press, dremel, and tons of sandpaper (we're talking a bunch, people).

Tons of possibilities out there. The small parts organizer wouldn't be my first choice, but I also wouldn't bow out of the swap just for that reason.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree, the parts organizer doesn't really float my boat either. I'd still play but there are many other good ideas.

I would like to see another marking knife/gauge swap too. I didn't get in on the other one and those are 2 things that are fun to make, easy to ship, and you can never have too many of them.


----------



## jeffswildwood

I like what Brian said. The fun is the build and camaraderie. I didn't get in on the early swaps and many others my not have either that would try now. Although a knife swap would be fun, the metal work may be a bit out of my league. I just have no knowledge of metals. That don't mean I couldn't learn but how long would that take. Maybe past the reveal date. The small parts storage, however, would be right up my alley.


----------



## bearkatwood

I could do with more storage or less junk.


----------



## ShaneA

Knives sound intriguing to me, there are a lot of kit options out there for the metal end of it. I am not looking to make my own blade, but it does give the opportunity for those who want to make their own, or simply buy/repurpose one.


----------



## Mosquito

I enjoyed the marking gauge swap, it was probably my favorite swap from a personal design standpoint 

Have we done squares and/or sliding bevels yet?

Maybe a "Marking Swap", either marking gauge or marking knife, a square/sliding bevel, etc?

I'd also be open to non-tool swaps too, if we wanted to take a break from tool swaps too… Like Brian said, the camaraderie and pushing yourself to try something new is my favorite parts of these swaps


----------



## sepeck

> I enjoyed the marking gauge swap, it was probably my favorite swap from a personal design standpoint
> 
> Have we done squares and/or sliding bevels yet?
> 
> Maybe a "Marking Swap", either marking gauge or marking knife, a square/sliding bevel, etc?
> 
> I d also be open to non-tool swaps too, if we wanted to take a break from tool swaps too… Like Brian said, the camaraderie and pushing yourself to try something new is my favorite parts of these swaps
> 
> - Mosquito


I like that idea too. Given my current marking gauge is my old abused tri-square and my marking knife I need to do something to fix that anyway


----------



## Mosquito

Dang it! I just realized I never took pictures of my set for this swap with my camera, so all I've got are phone pictures again lol oops


----------



## ToddJB

We've done polls in the past to see what the majority vote is, I've liked going that route.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep a poll sounds like the best way to go about it to me.

I LOVE the square/bevel idea Mos.


----------



## ToddJB

> Dang it! I just realized I never took pictures of my set for this swap with my camera, so all I ve got are phone pictures again lol oops
> 
> - Mosquito


Ha. That's all I ever get. Welcome, Mos, the water feels fine.

Plus when you take pics with chitty phone cameras they don't pick up on as many flaws - I'm blessed in that regard.


----------



## Ripthorn

I've been wanting to make a couple sliding bevels, but haven't had a good reason to…A general layout swap could be done as has been done in the past. It does make it a little more work for the moderator to try to match wants with providers, but it is a fun event.


----------



## ToddJB

I don't think that should be an expectation on the moderator, only if they volunteer that as an available option.


----------



## HokieKen

I would say I'd set up an online poll but I'm afraid that would be misconstrued as volunteering to facilitate


----------



## Ripthorn

Todd, absolutely. I did it for the plane swap, and it wasn't all that bad. If the moderator chooses not to, that's fine as well. If not for the moderators, these things wouldn't really ever get off the ground.


----------



## Ripthorn

Any volunteers for moderator?


----------



## donwilwol

> Todd, absolutely. I did it for the plane swap, and it wasn t all that bad. If the moderator chooses not to, that s fine as well. If not for the moderators, these things wouldn t really ever get off the ground.
> 
> - Ripthorn


I did this for the plane swap as well. It wasn't much more work. It's a lot of work either way!


----------



## Mosquito

I can send you (the next moderator) my spreadsheet 

Kenny, just for the record, I posted the poll for the swap that ended up being Shop Art, but didn't moderate that one


----------



## Mosquito

It's just slightly less random to pair people up with preferences. For this one I could just let Excel do a random sorting and had everyone send to the next person on the list, which was by far the easiest part (I just had to confirm that the person sending to the lone Canadian was willing to ship there)


----------



## donwilwol

I was talking to an antique dealer last weekend. He said he sells all of his old files to a couple knife makers he knows, so I would assume old files work well for making knives.


----------



## Ripthorn

Old files will work, but usually you need to anneal them first, then shape, then re-harden and re-temper. It's harder than doing them from new, annealed O1, but doable.


----------



## HokieKen

> I can send you (the next moderator) my spreadsheet
> 
> Kenny, just for the record, I posted the poll for the swap that ended up being Shop Art, but didn t moderate that one
> 
> - Mosquito


I was just kidding. It's no problem to set it up and get started collecting feedback. I'll just send the results to the moderator when we know who that is 

Link below is a poll for the next swap. If I missed something, let me know and I'll add it.

Summer 2016 LJ Tool Swap Survey


----------



## Mosquito

wasn't that last one what we were doing now?


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

. I assume we all like to work outside the Box and let our creativeness come out. What if we call the next swap a junk drawer build, made out of whatever we can find out of our home or the dumpster and fashion into a working tooll no matter how crude it turns out but rather the item should function well. We could call it the Junk Drawer Tool Build, and the actual swap item would be left up to the maker.

jeff


----------



## HokieKen

> wasn t that last one what we were doing now?
> 
> - Mosquito


Sort of but technically they can't have any metal in them.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Ken, if that last entry wins, (prison shank), I can't join. I already made one. It was my first attempt at a screwdriver.


----------



## ToddJB

For the shank is a previous record required, or is this skill building for our future adventures?


----------



## jeffswildwood

I could fashion it after one of many I found during my career. Filed right next to home made tattoo guns. lol


----------



## HokieKen

> For the shank is a previous record required, or is this skill building for our future adventures?
> 
> - ToddJB


I just see it as one of those "better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it" kinda things. Sounds like Jeff will be our resident expert if that theme wins. Maybe you should start timetestedshanks.net Jeff. ;-P

I posted a new thread with the survey link for possible participants who aren't following this thread. If you see it, just ignore it. It's just a link to the same survey.


----------



## bobasaurus

> The knife swap sounds interesting. Could an old table saw blade be used for this? Would that metal work?
> 
> - jeffswildwood
> 
> If it s a blade with carbide tips, probably not. The plates on those blades are normally a mild steel and would be useless for a knife. If it s a blade that has the teeth ground into the plate then it s probably a good tool/HS steel but would probably need to be annealed to work and then re-hardened and tempered afterwards. So you d have to know exactly what type steel it was to do it properly. Like jmartel said, O1 is readily available online in all shapes and sizes. It s easy to work with files and regular grinders and can be hardened and tempered with a torch, some water and your kitchen oven. IMHO, the cost of a tool steel blank is well worth the convience.
> 
> On the other hand, if you ve got an old blade, try cutting out a hunk and putting an edge on it. If you can get it so it ll take and hold a good edge, then you ve got several knife blanks ready to be used!
> 
> - HokieKen


Kenny, O1 should really be quenched with oil. Water is too fast a quench and can easily cause cracking for this steel. But I agree O1 is super cheap from places like Enco and relatively easy to grind as it comes annealed.

There are also tons of premade knife blanks from woodcraft, hock, jantz, etc.


----------



## HokieKen

Oops… I meant oil and typed water. Yes, O stands for OIL :-/


----------



## WadeHolloway

> I was talking to an antique dealer last weekend. He said he sells all of his old files to a couple knife makers he knows, so I would assume old files work well for making knives.
> 
> - Don W


Old good files work real good for knives. You have to anneal them which means you have to heat them up until a magnet will no stick to it and let the cool. You can then file and shape them into any shape you want to very easily. Then when the blade is finished you heat it up again to just past nonmagnetic again and cool it very rapidly by putting it into a oil bath. Now sand it and polish it and you are done. That is just a short summary of how to make a knife out of a old file. Same thing will work with most any good steel like O1.


----------



## ToddJB

Wade, same tempering process too? 2 hours at 400 degrees?


----------



## bobasaurus

I believe most old files are made from W2, which is a water quench steel. Newer files are likely something cheaper and harder to use.


----------



## Mosquito

Got my set today… pretty dang sweet!


----------



## fatandy2003

I've used knifekits.com before. Quality kits that are even pre-sharpened.

Edit: Also, if knives do win, I would like to suggest passing out swap partners at the beginning of the swap. Knives are very easily personalized which I think can be even better than a "bonus item." I know this can be hard due to people dropping out, but it can also push people to stay in the swap if they are committed to getting someone an item. Just a suggestion…


----------



## DLK

How are Knives are very easily personalized ?


----------



## fatandy2003

1) Inlaid initials
2) looking through profile to see what the recipient's interests are (hunting, fishing, military)
3) Maybe the recipient has an interest in damascus steel
4) Maybe the recipient is Scottish and would appreciate a sgian dubh or dirk…

It would take a little research, but it can be done (but doesn't have to be required), just throwing out options for how to mix things up a little…


----------



## wormil

If you really wanted a challenge, it would be interesting to swap tools from the Melencolia I. Actually I think it would be interesting to have some "challenges" instead of swaps.












http://imgur.com/jUfZg




> The knife swap sounds interesting. Could an old table saw blade be used for this? Would that metal work?
> 
> - jeffswildwood
> 
> If it s a blade with carbide tips, probably not. The plates on those blades are *normally a mild steel *
> 
> - HokieKen


Eh, this is only kind of true. This is one of those things that got started on the internet and people accepted as fact without checking. Disposable construction grade blades are mild steel, or low carbon steel, as a general rule. Decent quality woodworking blades are more likely to be tool steel. I've done a lot of reading on this, and some experimentation with my own blades. Many people believe that a favored steel for saw blades is L6, a very tough alloy tool steel that is difficult to heat treat for amateurs. I have several old Delta branded saw blades and I've come to believe they are L6 or something very similar. The metal is very hard, brittle in that it will break before bending very much, but is also tough in that it is not at all easy to bend. It also turned blue under moderate heat (not the kind of bluing that affects temper) and required a long soak in the oven for tempering, both signs of L6. Also the spark pattern resembles L6, at least to me it does. So if you have one of those crappy combination blades that came on Delta saws in 80's, 90's, or early 2000's, good chance it's L6. There are also plenty of people, like John Heisz, who have experimented with saw blades and found that some are mild or low carbon but there are a lot that are tool steel. John also has a video on how to test if the saw blade is hardenable but I would first just check to see if it's hardened. If it's hard, it's high carbon or alloy, and if you are very careful you can make blades from it without needing to heat treat. You can also grind it and observe the sparks to at least determine if it's high carbon steel. Walter Sorrells has an excellent video on reading grinding sparks.

But, to be clear, *I 100% agree it's better to buy O1 tool steel and know what you have.*

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/180250


^^^^^apparently the forum widget is still broken. What's my tax money get me around here anyway


----------



## DLK

> If you really wanted a challenge, it would be interesting to swap tools from the Melencolia I. Actually I think it would be interesting to have some "challenges" instead of swaps.
> 
> - Rick M.


This would be interesting, but it would require me to make the magic square (as two orthogonal Latin squares) in the upper right corner.


----------



## HokieKen

> If you really wanted a challenge, it would be interesting to swap tools from the Melencolia I. Actually I think it would be interesting to have some "challenges" instead of swaps.


For some of us, "swap" and "challenge" are synonymous ;P Those tools would be appropriate for a layout tool swap and pretty dang cool to boot!



> Eh, this is only kind of true. This is one of those things that got started on the internet and people accepted as fact without checking. Disposable construction grade blades are mild steel, or low carbon steel, as a general rule. Decent quality woodworking blades are more likely to be tool steel…
> 
> - Rick M.


First of all, if it's on the internet, it has to be true so fact-checking is a futile gesture. 

Second of all, guilty as charged :-/ I've never done a lot of research 'cause I've never really needed to recycle a saw blade but I have read that they're mild steel. It made sense to me since they're not doing the cutting if there's carbide brazed on so I didn't really question it. Thanks for bringing it up. You've piqued my curiosity now and I'll have to do some more reading. Especially after looking at your knife! That thing is bad-ass!


----------



## RichCMD

I really like the knife idea. Some time back I made a carving set, knife and fork. I am currently working on a pocket knife for my brother-in-law. Neither required any metalwork like heat treating. It's all about selecting the wood for the scales (handle), and then cutting, fitting, shaping, and finishing. Here's a few links that show some of the possibilities. Scroll around and you can find links to "how to" tutorials.

http://www.thompsonsknives.com

http://www.northcoastknives.com/


----------



## RichCMD

It's too late to make the survey this time, but a thought for some future swap could be kitchen tools. There are lots of possibilities, some from kits and some not. Possibilities include ice cream scoop, pizza cutter, bread knife, cheese knife, knife block, cutting board, platter, lazy susan, tray, trivet, bowl, carving set, chef's knife, chop sticks, and rolling pins.


----------



## Mosquito

lots of good ideas floating around…


----------



## terryR

Ooh, love the idea of a challenge mixed in with our swap. All sorts of challenges…

Just requiring the use of a brass plumbing part, or another easily found item could be mandated?

another source for good steel is used planer blades. HSS should never be thrown out IMO.


----------



## HokieKen

FYI, knives and marking/layout tools are dead even in the survey poll and far ahead of the other options. Nobody voted for prison shanks


----------



## JayT

> It s too late to make the survey this time, but a thought for some future swap could be kitchen tools. There are lots of possibilities, some from kits and some not. Possibilities include ice cream scoop, pizza cutter, bread knife, cheese knife, knife block, cutting board, platter, lazy susan, tray, trivet, bowl, carving set, chef s knife, chop sticks, and rolling pins.
> 
> - RichCMD


I like this idea!


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, that kitchen item one is a good idea. I'm not sure if I'll be able to participate in the next one since the wife wants to move soon. Depends on how quickly it comes up and a swap is decided on.


----------



## jeffswildwood

> Nobody voted for prison shanks
> 
> - HokieKen


Ken, maybe that's a good thing. 

Knife swap sounds fun but I can see I have very little knowledge of metals.


----------



## Ripthorn

Lucky for you, Jeff, as these things are all about learning!


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, don't sweat it Jeff. If you want to learn to do the metal work, there are a ton of resources online. If you don't want to, there are tons of kits and blanks that you can buy. And of course, finding some old, abused knives for cheap is easy and then you can strip them down, clean them up, hone them and re-handle them or whatever you decide to do. It's all about the journey!


----------



## HokieKen

I just looked at the survey results again. Somebody finally voted for prison shank 

Layout/Marking tools have a slight edge but Knives are right on their heels.


----------



## terryR

as usual, I voted 3 times.


----------



## TheFridge

prison shank? Let me go sharpen a tooth brush and I'm done!


----------



## HokieKen

> as usual, I voted 3 times.
> 
> - terryR


That's no problem. I'm just going to make up whatever results I decide I like best anyway.



> prison shank? Let me go sharpen a tooth brush and I m done!
> 
> - TheFridge


Sharpen the end opposite the brush. Then it will have 2 functions and can be considered the swap item AND a bonus item.


----------



## Ripthorn

But if you make your own toothbrush from scratch, the exotics will have much greater piecing strength. Bonus points if you use purpleheart because the splinters will go septic quickly…


----------



## TheFridge

Ahhhh! You're onto something my good man. I think wenge would work well too.

One second I'm brushing my teeth and the next I'm stabbing an intruder in the genitals. That just sounds awesome.


----------



## HokieKen

Just make sure you do it in that order!


----------



## putty

^ good thought HK

It reminds me of a story I heard years ago.

Back in the days of film cameras, a couple on vacation kept complaining about the hotel housekeeping. When they got home and developed the film there was a picture of their tooth brushes up the maids butt. ( bristle first)


----------



## TheFridge

That's dedication right there


----------



## HokieKen

They thought it was her butt. Turned out it was just a really ugly woman brushing her teeth.


----------



## DLK

Here is a hook knife I found that was made from and old file:










If I manage to buy an anvil, I might try to make one of these.

See the restoration here. (Post #29.)


----------



## wormil

> But if you *make your own toothbrush from scratch*, the exotics will have much greater piecing strength. Bonus points if you use purpleheart because the splinters will go septic quickly…
> 
> - Ripthorn


You've done it now. Youtubers are always looking for ideas. I predict that in about 3 weeks or so we'll see a rash of DIY WOOD TOOTHBRUSH videos. Izzy Swan will make a drill powered version. Peter Brown will make one from epoxy and rock salt.


----------



## WadeHolloway

> Wade, same tempering process too? 2 hours at 400 degrees?
> 
> - ToddJB


 Yeo Todd I forgot that part, was in a hurry and did not read my reply all the way through.  Was just trying to give some of the guys that have never done a knife before that it really is not that hard to do.


----------



## Babieca

Came home to find a box waiting and it was full of very cool stuff! Can't wait to share it.

Also in my inbox was the monthly Woodcraft ad, which has four different knife kits for $10 each, 50%-75% markdown. The sale runs through June 24. Pretty good deal for those who aren't keen on the metalworking part of a potential knife swap.


----------



## jeffswildwood

> Also in my inbox was the monthly Woodcraft ad, which has four different knife kits for $10 each, 50%-75% markdown. The sale runs through June 24. Pretty good deal for those who aren t keen on the metalworking part of a potential knife swap.
> 
> - Babieca


Now this could be right up my alley! May be easier then that old rusted meat cleaver I found in my basement. Or an old saw blade. I have virtually no metal working tools except a hack saw and a set of files.


----------



## jeffswildwood

I checked on amazon for knife kits. There is a lot of them. Including the beautiful Damascus kits.


----------



## bmwaits

I received my package last week. It's so beautiful. True craftsmanship. Thank you partner! Will post pics June 1


----------



## donwilwol

I got mine today. Definitely the nicest screw drivers in my shop.


----------



## MNclone

Got mine last night. They are fantastic! Can't wait to share.


----------



## DLK

Paul Sellers makes a layout knife out of a kitchen knife in this video.

No wood working … but easy enough to do. One could make a set of chip carving knives this way.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Tomorrow is the big reveal day! I have to work so it's either post at 4:00 am or when I get home at 7:00 pm. I guess I'll have to see how it goes. Of coarse, 7:00 pm is actually only 4:00 pm for my west coast buddies.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm looking forward to it!

Post whenever works best for you (everyone) tomorrow. As long as the date on your computer/phone/tablet/posting device says June 1st, have at it!


----------



## ToddJB

Mos, what should the tag be?


----------



## Mosquito

Oh that's right, good call Todd.

You can use the tag *"screwdriver swap 2016"* when/if you post a project of your completed entry (after the recipient has posted pictures here, preferably). That way we'll have a place we can go to see all of them.


----------



## DLK

So we post here what we received and not what we made…. correct?


----------



## Mosquito

In this thread, correct.

Once your recipient has shared pictures of what you sent, then you can post any additional pictures you might want to share as well, but not until the recipient has had a chance to show it first.


----------



## ToddJB

Has everyone got their item? This swap had a huge turn out.


----------



## DLK

Ahhh the tyranny, o.k. I will remain patient..

(Edit: it helps when I put on my glasses. LOL)


----------



## Mosquito

Yes, hoping everyone has received (and sent!) their items. If there's anyone who hasn't received a swap item, please let me know (whether in this thread, through PM, or e-mail), and I'll see what I can dig up


----------



## DLK

> Has everyone got their item? This swap had a huge turn out.
> 
> - ToddJB


Wow, really. Whats the usual turn out?


----------



## ToddJB

I believe most, by the end, are in the teens


----------



## DLK

Well, then kudos to Mos. King of the LJ swaps. I think he should be elected swap master for life.


----------



## Mosquito

I think the art swap was in the teens, others have been in the 20s too. I'm not sure what the highest count was, but I'm sure the early swaps were up there too. I think our high on this one was 34 signed up.

I'll pass on the lifetime swap master lol


----------



## HokieKen

There have been 28 responses in the poll I put up for the next swap. Knives are the current choice with 12 votes followed by layout tools with 10 votes. None of the other options are close. So it looks like knives may win the popular vote!

There don't seem to be any volunteers to handle the next swap so I guess I'll step up. I figure if I'm gonna keep participating, it's my duty to shoulder some of the logistics. Might as well get my turn over with!

Mos', if you'd shoot me any information I need (I guess just access to the "swaps" gmail account) I'll get the ball rolling in the next week or two. Unless anyone has any objection, I'm just going to leave to poll open until I'm ready to post for sign-ups and take whatever's in the lead at that time as the new theme.

Can't wait to see all the "driver porn" tomorrow!


----------



## Iguana

Ken, the way I read your post last week, sounded like you'd already volunteered 

When I ran the art swap I just used my personal email, gave out by PM to the participants. So far, none of them have started spamming me…


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah Mark, it's funny how "I'm not volunteering but…" always gets read/heard with the "not" and "but" omitted ;-P. I had too much fun with this swap to complain about a little work though!

Thanks for the heads-up on the e-mail. I doubt I'll use my personal account but I'll probably set up a new one. Unless Mos' wants to donate the one he used to be passed around for future swaps??


----------



## Mosquito

I can probably turn it over once this one is over


----------



## bobasaurus

Hah, it's midnight so I can sneak into posting this first!

Here are the screwdrivers I received from my new friend Chris / clieb91 . The first is a beautiful pen-style turning that has various bits, including a screwdriver, hobby knife, pen, awl, and some mystery tweezers (not sure how they fit in there yet). I believe it is made from B&W ebony and the grain, shape, and finish are all beautiful:




























The second is a nice hefty interchangeable bit driver that somehow has my logo perfectly transferred onto it. I'm very curious about how the logo was done (toner transfer maybe?), as it looks flawless despite being on a curved surface. The shaft can flip around for smaller bit drivers on the other side, and each bit has phillips on one side and flathead on the other. This will be used a lot in my shop.










There was even a mystery turning kit and a piece of padauk to use with it:










Though I have to say, I have no idea what the kit is supposed to make. It looks kind of like a hidden screwdriver that pulls out? I'll have to wait for Chris to post a project and check back.

So thanks a lot, Chris. After a stressful day at work, opening your package really made my day. The craftsmanship and skill required to build these is very impressive. I will happily use them both in many projects to come.


----------



## wormil

The swap items I received from Babieca … the pictures don't do them justice, the colors are more vibrant in real life and the workmanship is top notch. Thank you very much!


----------



## sepeck

I got these nice drivers from wahoo along with a case. Currently it's mounted on my wall with a ledge and a clip. The driver on the far right has a removable point that fits standard bit hex shanks and seems to have a magnetic component as well as the clip. I am curious if the brass ferrule was something made or adapted. I've already used them a few times to test them out. Very nice.










And GAH! As an entry level turner still, I don't have enough time to be looking at the previous two posts. Really, I don't. I have other hobbies I want to find time for or something, really. I am not looking at pen mandrels either! NOPE! (Though disclaimer, I am probably getting a gouge to work on spoons for my camping trip this July but that doesn't count)


----------



## jeffswildwood

This is the beautiful set I received from Andy, (fatandy2003). At first look, it's hard to tell which is the screwdriver swap item, and which is the bonus item! Both work equally well and have already been tested. Andy says in a letter that they are made from a "mystery" wood but believes it is ovengkol, topped off with manzanite burl. I can't recall ever hearing of either but I do like it. The joinery on the brace is unreal. I still look at it and think "how did he do that"! Both have a really nice feel and fit my hand just right. All topped off with a wall display that will be mounted in my shop for years to come. Thanks Andy for the wonderful set!


----------



## Iguana

Received a package in the mail from Steven (sepeck) about a week ago. Resisted the temptation to open it until the 31st (whew, glad that's over!). Here's the contents:










Yup, paper and foam peanuts. Get rid of those, this is what was left:










Walnut, yum! Bonus item is a marking knife. Plus a nice note.

Made a quick holder to put up by my chisel rack. Need to do something more permanent, but that'll be a big project involving storage for the planes, chisels and bunch of other tools.










Steven, thanks! And don't de-rate your turning skills - these drivers fit very nicely in the hand.


----------



## HokieKen

My new friend Don (Combo Prof) really hooked me up. I opened up the shipping box and found this lovely little birdseye maple box peeking out at me:









So I open it up and find a lovely set of ash-handled grace drivers!









The handles are great and have been put to work already several times.









And, impressively, Don made these guys with no lathe! The symmetry of the handles and the uniformity of the 6 handles is spot-on. I love the flats on the sides for getting a good grip for extra torque.









Thanks Don! I couldn't be happier. The box is one of the loveliest pieces in my tool collection and the drivers it houses so perfectly will be workers in my shop as long as I have a shop.


----------



## Babieca

I was thrilled to open my package from 7footer and find this…








(It glows in the dark!)

and inside…








The multi-bit driver handle is yew and the split nut drier is osage orange.

also…








a yew turning blank with a surprise inside and a piece of madrone burl.

There were also a couple of adult beverages from his local brewery, but I'm afraid they didn't make it to June.


----------



## HokieKen

Good grief what a talented bunch of guys! I see nothing posted that isn't top-notch and that any craftsman wouldn't be proud to own. Keep 'em coming y'all!


----------



## waho6o9

Strong work folks and excellent craftsmanship once again.

Brian sent me a beautiful tiger maple 4 in 1 screwdriver with a turquoise inlay and it's awesome.
One side has the square drive which I needed, and the other side is a phillips which is used quite
a lot.

Bonus items include a wax block that's in the shop, stickers, and a cool hat. Thanks Brain!










Here's a pic of the wax block that's very useful in the shop.









www.bearkatwood.com


----------



## Mosquito

all of them are looking awesome so far guys!


----------



## Mosquito

Just a reminder if/when you post a project, if you want to tag it with "screwdriver swap 2016", it will be included with all the others who tag their project on this page:
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/tag/screwdriver+swap+2016

Also, if anyone who sent or received a swap item that used Grace shanks, if you could kindly e-mail me a higher res picture or two it would be appreciated. I'll be compiling something to send over to Grace with a thank you for helping us out with this swap


----------



## donwilwol

Shane did a wonderful job as usual. I suppose I can't beat on these like I do my perfect handled beaters. These will be kept for special occasions. The marking knife has already become my favorite.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Wow! Those swap items look great! Fantastic craftsmanship.


----------



## Mosquito

Those handles quite remind me of Blue Spruce chisel handles, I like 'em! Nice work Shane


----------



## bearkatwood

I am glad you liked it. The hat and other stuff was padding. I had such lofty plans when the swap started, but time and ability (or lack there of) kicked my butt in the end. I still have your mailing address so maybe when time and ability catch up… 

I was given this amazing set of drivers from Jmartel

They looked like they were made for me. When I made my rasp handles I used the same khaya and copper. 









You can see one of rasps on the right.


















I don't use screwdrivers everyday, but these seemed such a great fit that they had to get a holder and some real-estate in the cabinet.




























So thank you Waho6o9 fo being happy with what little I could do, Thank you  Jmartel for the amazing set. Special thanks to Mos for taking on this huge task and thanks to LumberJocks for the fun experience.
I hope you all have a great day.


----------



## waho6o9

" I am curious if the brass ferrule was something made or adapted. I've already used them a few times to test them out. Very nice."

The brass ferrule was made from a plumbing fixture and shaped on the lathe and then sanded. I went to the plumbing store and looked around and got a few items that will work for now and future projects. They're good to have on hand.


----------



## AgentTwitch

I received my swap item from WoodWorkJosh on May 16th and opened it immediately (I may even have shrieked when I saw it on the porch)! I lack the same self-control that others have shown…I am weak.










The driver arrived well packed and snug under a layer of protective foam.



















I brought it in the house and opened it up to find a custom stubby slotted screwdriver made from walnut. It has a great feel in the hand and I put it to use right away for some work I was doing around the house.










I have always been a fan of these swaps and hope everyone here decides to participate in the next one as well. Thanks for the great screwdriver, Josh!


----------



## woodcox

Great show so far you guys! Some fine tools and skill on display. It has been cool following along, so much good info that comes along with these swaps.

I like the rack for those Brian. Beautiful work.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Wow! Excellent craftsmanship shown here. I did not participate in this swap, but have been waiting for the reveal date as if I had. You guys have once again impressed me with you work. Great job!


----------



## jmartel

That is pretty close, Brian. Wish I would have gone with a higher gloss finish though. Then they'd match exactly. I'll post up the drivers I received when I get home tonight.


----------



## RichCMD

This is the screwdriver I received from Brad (bmwaits). Thanks Brad! I love it. The marble wood handle is beautiful, and it is very comfortable.

I really like this type of screwdriver. I have been keeping a similar (but not nearly as nice looking) one in the kitchen "junk" drawer for years so it's handy when I need a screwdriver for a quick fix. I think I am going to keep this one in my office. I work out of an office at home, some I am in here a lot. I have already put it to good use.


----------



## DLK

I was surprised and very pleased to receive these drivers from Terry (TerryR):










The wood is Bubinga and the amazing finish is just buffed wax. The brass hammer which we were all following Terry as he built it was quite the surprise bonus. (The dark ring is buffalo horn. I don't know how he did it. But I have my guesses.) They will be the cherished tools that I will primarily use when adjusting and repairing my planes and saws. Terry made *all* the metal parts. Shanks are hardened O1.

They match the knives that Terry sold me (by trade) last October:










I understand if we all start ordering tools from Terry and put him into business, that he will quit his day job. I think we should do so. :-]


----------



## Mosquito

I thought terry Terry was already "retired" lol Those look sweet. I love bubinga


----------



## sepeck

> Shane did a wonderful job as usual. I suppose I can t beat on these like I do my perfect handled beaters. These will be kept for special occasions. The marking knife has already become my favorite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Don W


Wait…. did Shane have a camera in my shop or did I have one in his? Wow. I think our driver shapes are cousins. I like the shape for the marking knife handle too.

Hmmm… I am looking forward to Terry's project page on his build. the handles Don did were one of the designs I really wanted to try out. I think I may go with that for one of my spare sets I got to make gifts for.


----------



## Mosquito

I suppose I'll throw my pictures in the mix now…

ToddJB sent these awesome turnscrew style drivers. I've always wanted some, and these are sweet! They're quite comfortable too. East Indian Rosewood, custom brass ferrules, and shop made O1 steel shanks, hardened and hollow ground to thickness on the tips. Thanks Todd!


----------



## 7Footer

Holy cow guys. All kinds of awesomeness going on here.

Lol @ Relocate your Donkey….. Those your design? Those are rad.

I received this awesome 7 in 1 combo driver from RichCMD, walnut and maple. Thanks again Rich!


----------



## HokieKen

Wow Mos' those turnscrews are gorgeous. Nice work Todd!

BTW, it's back to a dead tie between knives and layout tools for the next swap. Vote if you haven't already!


----------



## waho6o9

Good stuff


----------



## wormil

> I received this awesome 7 in 1 combo driver from RichCMD, walnut and maple. Thanks again Rich!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - 7Footer


I dig that triangular handle, been wanting to try that shape.


----------



## bearkatwood

Nice job on that split nut driver Terry and Jmartel the finish was dead on, the picture must have not done it justice because they are dead match. 
Amazing work so far guys.


----------



## Mosquito

Still waiting (patiently… sort of lol ) on 10 more people to post what they've received :-D


----------



## ShaneA

I will try to get a picture up of what I received this evening. Sorry for the delay, I should have taken pictures of it last night.

Great work guys, these are great additions to the shop.

Thanks for the effort Mos, well done.


----------



## bobasaurus

These are all very interesting and unique. Those turnscrew-style drivers are impressive, even the ferrules look custom made.


----------



## Mosquito

No worries Shane, there's no rush.

HURRY UP WOULD YA!


----------



## ToddJB

Crazy good work, dudes.

I, as well, have apparently forgotten to take pics. I will do so when I get home.

Mos, glad you like them. Your good camera points out all my flaws - so is life.


----------



## Mosquito

^ That's my phone lol


----------



## fatandy2003

Here are the spectacular drivers made by Bobosaurus. He hand forged the flat blade driver and it fits perfectly in a Stanley cap iron screw; the wood is maple burl. The insert driver is walnut with his renowned logo. I love them, thanks Allen!





































Edit: Sorry the pics are upside down. I just tried rotating and reposting the pictures in every orientation and every time they uploaded upside down…


----------



## ToddJB

> ^ That s my phone lol
> 
> - Mosquito


Way to kick a horse when he's down, Mos

Man, I was hoping for a perfect handle out of you, Allen. I really hope you do a detailed write up.


----------



## Mosquito

What? That's awesome! Love the hand forged that reminds me of a perfect handle driver


----------



## Mosquito

> ^ That s my phone lol
> 
> - Mosquito
> 
> 
> 
> Way to kick a horse when he s down, Mos
> 
> - ToddJB
Click to expand...

I like my phones camera, it is rather good despite only being 8MP. Those Lumia Windows phones do something well, at least lol


----------



## fatandy2003

And the project post…


----------



## bobasaurus

Glad you like the screwdrivers, Andy. It was pretty difficult to forge that sucker, I'm not a great blacksmith yet. Here is the project post (note that the lumberjocks project widget is having issues):

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/249818


----------



## Ripthorn

I was super lucky and had Mark Kornell send me a full set of flat, Philips, and Robertson drivers. He even inlaid the type into the handle for easy ID! They were wrapped safely in sustainable wrapping material, and there was even an awesome marking knife as a bonus! So Stoked!


----------



## ToddJB

Dang Mark.


----------



## ShaneA

I received this from MN Clone… I think, the LJ name was not included. But it came from Minnesota. My poor pictures don't do it justice. The inlayed turning and the fit and finish of this set is top notch. I will be able to put this to use, for sure. Thanks


----------



## donwilwol

> What? That s awesome! Love the hand forged that reminds me of a perfect handle driver
> 
> - Mosquito


Nice work on all of them, but I have a soft spot for perfect handle screwdrivers. That's extra cool.


----------



## Mosquito

Awesome work Mark and MNClone I like the inlay on both

(Yes Shane, yours should have come from MNClone)


----------



## waho6o9

Holy smokes Mark! The inlay for identification is a great idea.

Nice multi use drive Shane and the Celtic knot is a nice addition.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Mark, the handle inlay came out awesome ! Nice job and great idea


----------



## bobasaurus

Dang Mark, the inlaid driver style is amazing.

Thanks Don, I'll have to make another to keep someday.


----------



## ToddJB

Sorry for the delay.

HokieKen made me this stunning multiaxis set out of walnut and cherry, and on top of that he went back through the forum and found where I oogled over Rick's knock out bar and made me one for my lathe. Fit and finish on all are top notch. Thanks Kenny!










Hard to photo the handle shape but they're super comfy


----------



## ShaneA

That is a handsome set right there. Very nice Hokie


----------



## bearkatwood

I would have never thought to make a knock out bar. Nice work, now I think I might make one


----------



## jeffswildwood

My gosh, there have been some beautiful drivers posted here.


----------



## MNclone

Sorry for the lack of info on the package Shane. I had to go out of town for work last minute and my wife was kind enough to package and ship it for me. 
The handle is made of mulberry with a mesquite accent. Don't judge me too harshly on my sewing abilities!


----------



## clieb91

What an awesome collection of work!

I received my package from Rick M. about a week ago and found a great flat screwdriver with a few bonuses.










The screwdriver is a made from a reclaimed shank with a new handle that is quite comfortable to use. The handle is made form two of his locally sourced woods, Mulberry and Dogwood.



















I am planning to put it to some good use.

Mos, thanks for organizing this event it was a fun one to be a part of. I am looking forward to joining in on the next one and giving myself another challenge.

CtL


----------



## MNclone

And now what I received from Mosquito. Red oak box with Sapele insert and inside are two drivers. The short one is Wenge and the longer one is Sapele. I don't know how Mos made that longer one without a lathe but it is fantastic. Thanks Mos!


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks MNClone! How I got the long handled one shaped with out a lathe: Spokeshave until it was as round as I could get it by eye that way, and then a little sand paper to smooth out any facets left from the spokeshave. It's the same way I've made mallet handles in the past too, with the similar limitation of no lathe.

I meant to make the short one a little more rounded, but A.) I hate working with small pieces and a spokeshave, B.) I avoid tight quarters work with Wenge, after I ended up with a 3/8" long splinter in my thumb for a few months… ouch.

I was also really happy with the finish on the long one, it was really smooth, at least compared to the way most of my finishes come out lol


----------



## MNclone

Yeah, the finish on the long one is silky smooth and just begs to be held. 
Thanks again for coordinating this whole thing.


----------



## jmartel

Opened up the box from Jeffswildwood (who I also received as a swap partner in the box swap) and found this.










Storage box for the drivers made out of spalted maple, cherry, and walnut.

Inside was a set of drivers with square handles made of hard maple.










Already used them to do the final install of hardware on my nightstands this past weekend. They work great.
He also included some turning blanks as well.


----------



## jeffswildwood

Jeff, glad you like them and they are working for you. Hope they last for many years to come.


----------



## bearkatwood

That is a beautiful set, love the boxes. What an amazing collection of awesome work. Very thankful to have been part of it. Now I know a little more about these swaps, can't wait for the next one.


----------



## HokieKen

Beautiful work Jeff! What a gorgeous box.


----------



## Mosquito

Awesome, I like the box too


----------



## waho6o9

Great style HokieKen and the knock out bar makes for a great bonus item, good job!

Lucky Chris all the good stuff from Rick. I betcha going to like the Thales squares.

Nice joinery on the box Mos! That's pretty neat how everything fits right in there and the drivers
look very ergonomic.

Classy box there Jeffswildwood. Jmartels' maple drivers look stout and the green background
looks good as well. Very nice


----------



## DLK

I had to read up on what a "knock out bar" is for. But thats because my lathe doesn't have mores tapers.


----------



## Mosquito

heh, so did I…


----------



## bearkatwood

Hey Mos, where did you get that re-toother?


----------



## Mosquito

Seems like a weird forum to ask, but by diligently watching Craigslist


----------



## bearkatwood

I just saw your video and thought I would ask. Thanks for all the work you put into this swap, it was a ton of fun, but also very exasperating. I thought I had plenty of time for the big plan I had, I think if I do another swap I will try to take the clock a little more seriously. So yeah, it is a weird forum for me to ask about your purchases, sorry. Thanks again. Any decisions yet on what the next swap will be?
Also do we have a crowd favorite on any of the items?


----------



## Mosquito

A popular vote on favorite swap items? That's a new idea… Haven't done that before, but I think it would be way too hard to pick one!

I'm not sure when HokieKen was going to close the survey for the next one, but it sounded like knives and marking/layout tools were the two front runners?


----------



## Notw

> Hah, it s midnight so I can sneak into posting this first!
> 
> Here are the screwdrivers I received from my new friend Chris / clieb91 . The first is a beautiful pen-style turning that has various bits, including a screwdriver, hobby knife, pen, awl, and some mystery tweezers (not sure how they fit in there yet). I believe it is made from B&W ebony and the grain, shape, and finish are all beautiful:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bobasaurus


Does anyone know were the kit to make this multi tool came from? It looks awesome


----------



## bearkatwood

I have been looking for that kind of ferrule for a while to make a marking knife. I like that it came with tweezers. I might have to get my glasses updated to use them though, II am slowly going blind. You will see some of my later works look like Monet's last paintings. Fuzzy woodworking 
Marking knives or knives in general would be fun. I have plans to order some kits and have my kids all make themselves a knife. 
The coloring on that piece is amazing, well done!


----------



## HokieKen

> I have been looking for that kind of ferrule for a while to make a marking knife…
> 
> - bearkatwood


Exacto knives use a similar tapered collet design. You might be able to adapt one of those to work.



> I m not sure when HokieKen was going to close the survey for the next one, but it sounded like knives and marking/layout tools were the two front runners?
> 
> - Mosquito


There's been 33 reponses to the survey. Knives and Marking/Layout Tools are dead tied with 13 votes each. I think I'll leave the survey open through Sunday night and use whichever's leading at that point. If they remain tied, I'm not sure how to decide which one to use… I'm planning to get a thread started sometime next week with the dates and theme for the next swap to get the ball rolling. I'm thinking sign-up date around the end of June and ship date mid-to-late August. Sound reasonable?


----------



## ToddJB

You get the deciding vote


----------



## duckmilk

Would it be impractical to have them both? Same rules, same timeline, those that want knives go into one category, those that want marking/layout join the other.


----------



## sepeck

> I have been looking for that kind of ferrule for a while to make a marking knife. I like that it came with tweezers. I might have to get my glasses updated to use them though, II am slowly going blind. You will see some of my later works look like Monet s last paintings. Fuzzy woodworking
> Marking knives or knives in general would be fun. I have plans to order some kits and have my kids all make themselves a knife.
> The coloring on that piece is amazing, well done!
> 
> - bearkatwood


The marking knife I made as an extra, I found a 3/8" bronze bushing in the 'specialty' fastener box at Lowes, cut off an end. Worked great but also permanent. Your idea though… I did a search on ebay for threaded collect and came up with some interesting possibilities. If you do find a perfect item let us know.


----------



## ToddJB

project up: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/249946


----------



## HokieKen

> Would it be impractical to have them both? Same rules, same timeline, those that want knives go into one category, those that want marking/layout join the other.
> 
> - duckmilk


I considered that. On the other hand, we know there are a lot of people who want both so, we have our themes for the next 2 swaps. I think I'd prefer keeping a single theme for each swap but if the majority of participants would rather split it up, I'll be glad to set it up that way.

I think the more people working on the same "genre" of tool, the more input in the forum and the more we learn. But, like I said, I'll moderate it either way. If you want to split it into 2 categories, chime in and let me know!


----------



## JayT

Didn't participate in this swap, but have been following along. Such a great variety of ideas on display and all are well done.

Kenny, I think we're better off with one swap theme. Larger, unified pool of people with better sharing of ideas. Those that want to do both will be able to, and I'd bet there are a lot of us that would like to do both, just not at the same time.


----------



## HokieKen

> Didn t participate in this swap, but have been following along. Such a great variety of ideas on display and all are well done.
> 
> Kenny, I think we re better off with one swap theme. Larger, unified pool of people with better sharing of ideas. Those that want to do both will be able to, and I d bet there are a lot of us that would like to do both, just not at the same time.
> 
> - JayT


My thoughts exactly. The bigger the knowledge pool the better. Plus if we split it, I don't get to participate in both - and I want to do both!!


----------



## RichCMD

I would prefer to do them one at a time. I would want to do both, and trying to do two at the same time is not practical.


----------



## WoodWorkJosh

I received my set from Don W, I couldn't be happier. Looks like the set was made out of cherry and old files. Great workmanship. Thanks Don


----------



## jeffswildwood

Project posted http://lumberjocks.com/projects/250018


----------



## RichCMD

Project posted: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/250042


----------



## sepeck

Project posted: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/250082
(I see widgets are still a bust)

Hey Mosquito, maybe add this link to the announcement at top for future readers? http://lumberjocks.com/projects/tag/screwdriver+swap+2016


----------



## DLK

Project posted: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/250026


----------



## DLK

^ Does anybody now why the zoom picture feature is not working and how I can fix it?


----------



## HokieKen

Not sure about that one Don^ It's working for me on all of the projects except yours.


----------



## Ripthorn

My recipient has not posted what I sent. Am I good to post a picture here?


----------



## AgentTwitch

^ I am in the same position.


----------



## WadeHolloway

Did not get in on this and I have not read every post. All the projects posted that all of you have done look great. I do have one question. Where did all of the parts for the screw drivers come from? This was a really cool idea. I have seen several swaps before but this one was unique. Great job everyone!!


----------



## AgentTwitch

Wade, some of these came from Grace USA, they agreed to sell just the shafts and ferrules as part of a group buy (otherwise, you cant buy them separately). Others have re-purposed existing screw drivers, or bought kits from places ******************** Woodcraft and Rockler.


----------



## wormil

> ^ Does anybody now why the zoom picture feature is not working and how I can fix it?
> 
> - Combo Prof


Check the feedback forum, lots of threads about picture issues.


----------



## Mosquito

Yup, I've been hit by the various project picture issues on a few… kind of annoying. Can't be bothered to go through and re-upload images to all of 'em either


----------



## DLK

I tried the re-upload on one of the pictures and it had no effect. Never happened to me before!

I took a quick at the recent entries on the feedback forum but did not see one that applied. I may check further.


----------



## wormil

There was a post awhile back where the original pictures were deleted and all that remained were thumbnails so you when you zoomed it was just a tiny picture. It first came up, afaik, in this thread about the site loading slowly.
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/156970

Verticalscope also owns the router forums and they completely replaced their forum software which was very basic to begin with, a big improvement. LJ is advanced for a web forum but wasn't designed with mobile devices in mind so they would probably have to create something from scratch and that would be expensive. I think it's the patches to improve mobile compatibility and some of the efforts to make the back end more efficient that caused this problem. Seems to me it started when all the pictures stopped working for a couple days.


----------



## waho6o9

Great work DonW and I like the cool holder too.


----------



## terryR

lots of great work, guys!

Brian, I say post yer goodies now so I can see them before USPS gets a chance to lose them. LOL.

And, thanks to Mos for making sure I didn't get left out on the swap. NOT Brian's fault his gift is still in the mail.


----------



## clieb91

@Notw- The kit for the multi tool comes from Craft Supplies. One of my favorite kits to turn.

CtL


----------



## AgentTwitch

This is the screw driver set that I made for BMWaits. Its made from the Grace USA shanks (nice quality stuff) and maple. Like others, I was drawn to the Lie-Nielsen/Blue Spruce handle pattern. I enjoyed the swap and learned a lot about turning duplicates.

The finish is tinted shellac and Minwax Antique Oil.


----------



## waho6o9

Fancy that Norm, outstanding!


----------



## Mosquito

Awesome Norm! I really do like that pattern of handle


----------



## putty

beautiful !


----------



## bobasaurus

That handle pattern is slick, and your ability to turn repeatably is impressive.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Thanks fellas, it was fun. Project posted.


----------



## HokieKen

Love that pattern Norm and finish looks great!

Just a reminder that the poll for the next swap theme closes tonight - midnight EDT. Layout/marking tools has a slight lead.


----------



## duckmilk

And I was pulling for prison shank


----------



## HokieKen

Sorry Duckmilk, shanks did get more votes than chisels though! I really liked the idea of a chisel swap but I guess me and 1 other person were the only ones.

5-1/2 hours left and layout/marking is still leading but just barely.


----------



## HokieKen

If I luck into 'em, I'll pick you up a set Don. When I asked them, they said they didn't think they would get any more anytime soon though.


----------



## DLK

> If I luck into em, I ll pick you up a set Don. When I asked them, they said they didn t think they would get any more anytime soon though.
> 
> - HokieKen


Wrong forum, but I got the message.


----------



## HokieKen

:-/ Long day… ;-)


----------



## MNclone

can someone post a link to the survey for the next swap?


----------



## waho6o9

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/163346

Here ya go buddy


----------



## Mosquito

Just a reminder, that if you used Grace shanks and haven't e-mailed me higher resolution pictures, they would be appreciated. I hope to get an e-mail sent out to the guys at Grace sometime this week


----------



## ToddJB

It seems fer-realz - new swap is posted - layout won - http://lumberjocks.com/topics/165346


----------



## AgentTwitch

I am a sucker for a tool swap!


----------



## HokieKen

> It seems fer-realz - new swap is posted - layout won - http://lumberjocks.com/topics/165346
> 
> - ToddJB


What he said ^


----------



## Notw

Now that this swap is over does anyone know the probability of Grace selling the screwdriver shanks to the general public? I did not have the time to enter this swap but would love to make myself a set of custom screwdrivers one day.


----------



## Mosquito

Not quite over, I think we're still waiting for Terry to show what he got, or Ripthorn to show what he made… MarshallLaw said he was forwarding what he got on to Terry, since he wasn't able to complete his on time. Hopefully Terry gets them soon… or at all


----------



## ToddJB

And I just thought Terry's mailman was up to no good again.


----------



## fatandy2003

I have my prototype brace I could send to Terry if he doesn't end up getting an item. It was more of a proof of concept, but it still works… I would hate to see Terry draw the short straw and not get anything.


----------



## terryR

thanks, guys, I finally received some sweet drivers today. Thanks Brian! I've wanted a chipbreaker driver just like the one you made!










The tiny guy is staying in my tool tray.

mail runs slow down south. everything does.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Very nice, Brian! Great shape on those drivers


----------



## 7Footer

I'm glad the postman did the right thing… Those are freaking beautiful! Are the split nut and chipbreaker solid steel shanks? They look burly!


----------



## jmartel

Ok, Brian. Spill the beans on how you shaped those drivers. Looks like a radiused edge?


----------



## Peterfab

Beautiful drivers!
Peter F.


----------



## waho6o9

Excellent drivers terryR and Kudos to fatandy for the good Karma.


----------



## ToddJB

Dang Brian, freak in gorgeous. Do you have a vertical mill? My guess is you snuck up on it from each side?


----------



## terryR

yep, milled tool steel.
like a pro.
I used sanding drums…


----------



## terryR

.


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## Ripthorn

I used my milling machine to mill the shanks. I started with 1/2" O1 drill rod, cut off in my horizontal band saw, then mounted in the milling machine using a V block in the vise. Then I used a 3/8" end mill to mill enough off on each side to get the right thickness. The cap iron driver is a nice snug fit on all my vintage Stanleys, but I left it unhardened so that it could have a hook burnished on it for pieces with wider slots. It has plenty of flat to be ground back if needed. The split nut driver was done the same way, but I drilled a 13/64" hole in the center first, then milled the flat to the same thickness as specified by Lie Neilsen on their website.

The handles are quina for the split nut and cap iron driver. The small guy was a vintage screwdriver I had kicking around that had a terrible handle. That one got purple heart with some sap wood in there.


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## HokieKen

Awesome work Brian! Those are fine-looking drivers and fine looking handles. Congrats on receiving them Terry!


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## DLK

Terry.


What is that motor with the two Jacob chucks? (Or more precisely what kind of motor is that and where do I get one?)
What is that clamp with the red handle doing?
What do I see under the sanding sleeve.


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## Mosquito

I've got my project posted now, finally (I was waiting until everyone got to share what they got, or something lol)









http://lumberjocks.com/projects/250842

(would be nice if the cards worked again… )


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## HokieKen

> Terry.
> 
> 
> What is that motor with the two Jacob chucks? (Or more precisely what kind of motor is that and where do I get one?)
> What is that clamp with the red handle doing?
> What do I see under the sanding sleeve.
> 
> - Combo Prof


1. You can buy chucks to fit motor arbors. My guess is Terry just fit a chuck to a bench grinder/polisher arbor.

2. I think that clamp is holding a bar Terry's using as a stop to make sure he grinds back the same amount on both sides

3. Only thing I see is a chuck key?


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## DLK

Thanks.


Do they have Jacob chucks to fit straight keyed arbors? Yes, see this. 
How is the stop working?
Doh!, I should have recognize the chuck key.

So can you buy a single phase variable speed motor? No not really. Would a 3phase plus a VFD work me?

(Like it when I answer my own questions?)


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## HokieKen

2. Looks like he clamped a bar to the lathe tool rest and then he advances the tailstock until the rod hits the stop. Pure speculation of course since I wasn't there 

3 PH +VFD or DC motor + speed controller depending on application.


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## terryR

yep, Kenny has it, the clamp was just stopping the stock from advancing further.

green motor is a Kirjes sanding motor. handy, but expensive for a tool that says not to use it more than 10 minutes at a time!


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## putty

that is like a welder Terry…duty cycle use for 10 minutes off for 15


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## bmwaits

I wanted to publicly thank Norm for the beautiful set. I apologize for not getting around to posting a pic… Thanks again Norm. I'm super impressed. Afraid to use them!


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## AgentTwitch

My pleasure, Brad. Thanks for the note and please do use them!


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## KayBee

Beautiful work guys!


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## DLK

> yep, Kenny has it, the clamp was just stopping the stock from advancing further.
> 
> green motor is a Kirjes sanding motor. handy, but expensive for a tool that says not to use it more than 10 minutes at a time!
> 
> - terryR


Got it. Thanks.


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## TheFridge

> I wanted to publicly thank Norm for the beautiful set.
> 
> - bmwaits


You could always give him a good "thanking" in private. I know I wood… Get it would?

I'm so sorry.


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## HokieKen

> ...
> I m so sorry.
> 
> - TheFridge


You should be. I feel dirty for laughing…


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## HokieKen

In case anyone following this thread is interested, I've been working with Dan at Grace Tools to organize another bulk purchase of bare shanks (let it go Fridge). There's a forum post with all the info here for anyone who wants to get some more or different drivers. Good news is that it looks like Dan may be willing to offer drivers "a la carte" for us!


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## AgentTwitch

Neat!

Mos, did you get the photos off to Grace?


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## Mosquito

I have not yet. I've got all the pictures I need now, but haven't had time to compile it. Will be working on that Sunday or Monday (out of town this evening through Sunday)


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## DLK

I have never in my life seen such passion for the lowly screwdriver. We may need a Screwdriver of your dreams forum.


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## Pappy321

That's an awesome project. Need to tool up for this.


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## HokieKen

> I have never in my life seen such passion for the lowly screwdriver. We may need a Screwdriver of your dreams forum.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I think this is it!


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## jeffswildwood

> I have never in my life seen such passion for the lowly screwdriver. We may need a Screwdriver of your dreams forum.
> 
> - Combo Prof


There was and stills is quite a following for this swap.


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## AUswimKC

I know this was a few years back, but there was a group buy of Grace USA shanks for a swap. Does anyone have any extra shanks left over? Perhaps you bought some and never got around to it.

I am specifically looking for #12 and #14 slotted. But would maybe be open to additional slotted, Phillips, square, torx, etc to go with the #12 and #14.

I also added a topic in the swap forum but thought I would post here too


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## HokieKen

> I know this was a few years back, but there was a group buy of Grace USA shanks for a swap. Does anyone have any extra shanks left over? Perhaps you bought some and never got around to it.
> 
> I am specifically looking for #12 and #14 slotted. But would maybe be open to additional slotted, Phillips, square, torx, etc to go with the #12 and #14.
> 
> I also added a topic in the swap forum but thought I would post here too
> 
> - AUswimKC


I organized that purchase from Grace. I had a few shanks I never used at one time. I'll check tonight and see what, if any, spares I have hanging around.


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## Mosquito

I know I have at least 1 somewhere, but don't remember if I went in for 2 sets or 3… I know I gave one away as a Christmas gift to a fellow woodworker-in-law (almost). If I ended up buying 3 at the time, I'd have a spare set available. I probably shouldn't, but want to keep one set to make sometime


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## putty

I have a full unused set, you are welcome to them for what I paid for them. Anyone remember how much they cost?


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## sepeck

> I have a full unused set, you are welcome to them for what I paid for them. Anyone remember how much they cost?
> 
> - putty


Might want to jump to this thread
https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/312892#reply-5356325


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## HokieKen

I have no idea why but it sticks in my head that we paid $13 for these 6 piece swap sets. I don't remember if that included shipping or not or if that was even the right number.


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