# Two Antique Plane Mysteries...New Pics!!!! LQQK!



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

I saw two really unusual planes while browsing an out-of-the-way antiques shop today. Can you help?
*First plane*: A really weird plane marked #3, though it seemed a tad smallish for a #3. It was marked *"DRP& Co." *on the topside of the sole, ahead of the tote. Then I noticed the back of the frog was marked "Germany" in that creepy font often seen on highway signs in Germany. I had the feeling it was early 20th century, but does anyone have an idea what this plane is? 
*Second item*: A Union plane, no other markings except for lever cap, *only 8 1/2 inches long*, Could this be the model sometimes presented on eBay as a 'Union #2'? 
Each of these were marked $25, and looked like they spent eternity in a damp basement.
I did bring home an equally rusty #4 1/2 Stanley plane, however. It will go into the 'corral' until I get some unfettered liesure time to spend on some restoration work. 
Any opinions on the other two orphans above? Thx in advance!!


----------



## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

I can't help you…

That one really Cries Out… "Restore Me"...

... please…


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, Joe! 
I hope I'm not somehow putting you personally on the spot, when I post queries like this! HAGD!!


----------



## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I've never heard of DRP& Co. so I hope you find an answer. I don't have a lot of Union info either, but if it is a #2 size, you probably should go back and get it for $25.

The #4 1/2 does need some love.


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, Don!
The 4 1/2 has two patent dates, I haven't researched it yet but I believe it's early. The tote sits up high on a pedestal. I've got it apart now, there's some chips and cracks in the sole, it could be a user but not minty restoration material. 
I'll have to see if there are any Union #2s on eBay, and what they measure out to. It's really narrow, I've got to remember to keep a tape measure, and the cell phone camera with me when we go plundering.


----------



## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

If planes could tell stories. That poor plane looks like it spent more than a couple decades unloved. Interesting to see you bring it back for a second chance.


----------



## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Might a #2. My Union #3 is 9-1/8" long. Just a hair over 2" wide.


----------



## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Of course, i also know someone whom doesn't mind bringing them back from the dead, either.


----------



## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*Poopie...
*
No problem here…

*HAGD* ???

Interesting…


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, everyone, for the great replies!
*Don:* Yeah, that Union will never move from its spot until somebody around here, who's not daunted by a total rusty rehab, comes by and takes it home. Maybe me, maybe somebody else. I did notice a chip out of the rear sole overhang, where it supports the tote but raised a bit above the sole. It was in a consignment area of the antique shop, where the possibility of making a counter-offer is tedious. * Shane*: The 4 1/2 will be the receiver of 'hand-me-downs from when I re-hab my two Stanleys which are sound but need the full treatment. *Has anyone converted a 4 1/2 to a scrub?*
*Bandit:* I'm surprised that this Union does not have a numerical designation. I was worried that somebody slapped a Union lever cap on a generic plane, but what about that weird length??? 8 1/2 inches across the sole, you're right, it's gotta be something, and if I don't use my own knowledge (or intuition) for spotting a rarity I might as well hang it up!
Verdict is in… I'm just gonna buy those two, and put them in the corral, for when the day comes that I can set up my plane hospital and make some good users out this old iron pile I got. *Joe:* HAGD translates to *Have a Good Day!!*


----------



## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Most of the Unions in my stable, only one has UNION cast into the base, right behind the tote. The older ones have a right hand threaded adjuster wheel. Also check the lateral.









Union meeting?


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, *Bandit! * Appreciate the time you spent putting together the Union meeting! I tried to absorb as many of the details for both planes, not having a camera with me. As I recall, the lateral adjuster, the piece that engages the slot in the cutter, was hexagonal in shape, not round. It rotated (presumably) on the peened rivet that attached it to the lat lever. That does it, I gotta go buy these two now. This shop is closed on Sundays, it'll have to be during the week. I'll have some pics and details once they come home to my stable. Thanks again, Bandit, and all those who responded! I really like the weird planes! The research continues.


----------



## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

if your looking for some Union information, I have several links posted on my refernce blog, http://lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/24091

If you find any I have not post them so I can too. I could never find a plane reference size chart for union.


----------



## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

I just saw a "hex" adjuster, on a "Victory" jack plane. It ended with a union style end, but the rest was six-sided. Looked like it was forged flat.


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

bandit: Is 'Victory' one of those Stanley reincarnations? I'm going to that antique shop tomorrow after work, for the Union and DRP&Co planes. Pics soon. It's hard to get motivated with a wind-chill temperature of -41, I'm serious. Thanks again for your help and participation.


----------



## racerglen (Oct 15, 2010)

I think this is what you're talkin' about Poopie..

" 
(KICKER-Snow-No-Mail)

There's an old saying that neither snow nor rain will keep postal workers from finishing the job.

Except in Winnipeg-where bitter wind chills of Minus-40 meant the mail didn't get delivered to about 18-thousand homes.

John Caines of Canada Post says postal carriers have great parkas and can usually stop in places along their route to warm up.

But he says that just wasn't enough to battle the kind of cold felt in southern Manitoba yesterday. 
(with thanks to Canadian Press ;-)
I've hitchhiked in that temperature, YUK !


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, Glen!! Yes, 18,000 on Monday didn't get mail delivery, today it was 12,000 homes! They're forcasting a windchill of -42 for tonight, into tomorrow…Sad to say, I didn't get to the shop that had the planes, like I had planned. It will be done, however. 
Wish I had a balcony!!!


----------



## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Interesting facts about the Victor.

As for Victory, I haven't ever been able to find good information. I'm not even sure thay actually made or sold a plane, maybe just replacement irons.


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

DonW: you're undoubtedly right, I believe when people see a generic plane with a 'Victory' cutter, they assume the whole plane is a Victory. Maybe even dealers who should know better: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Victory-No-6C-plane-12122-/150918501021?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item232371929d


----------



## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I don't know, just making an assumption. They could very well have made planes or sold rebranded Stanley's and/or Unions. The ones I've have had where clearly Stanley planes with victory irons. So Who knows. Not even google knows.


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Here's the promised pics… these planes came home with me today:









DRP & Co. cast frog that looks stamped. 'germany' stamped on sole.









Union, in pieces.









Union has corrugated base









'Germany' stamped on backside of frog









More views.









one really weird lateral adjuster on DRP & Co.


----------



## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

poopiekat, those poor things need some serous loving. It look like the union has had some hammering. And what's with that German front knob? I'm glad to see they are now in the hands of someone who will appreciate them.


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Yeah, Don, that cutter has had the life beat out of it, and I don't know why. It must have spent its life in a wooden bodied plane, then stuck into the Union when it should have been tossed. Not a biggie, I've got plenty of potential replacements. Whether or not either has any value as a collectible, I'll never know. I'll work it up into a usable plane, and see if love grows. Same with the DRP plane. Cripes, I'll NEVER find a lever cap for that baby! That tall front knob is cool, and for all I know might be correct for that DRP plane, I've got another plane somewhere with an identical knob, hmmm…. These two may end up in the corral in Tupperware til I can give them the time they deserve. Until then, I'll hunt parts on eBay, one of my favorite other things to do.
Thanks once again for all the great replies!


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

One major question for the eBay experts: When I'm browsing for planes, I typically see only US and Canada listings. There are a few British sellers of note whose listings are visible to me, and I'm sure they have somehow listed internationally. How would I get to see, say, listings in Germany? I'm sure a lever cap for the DRP plane above is available from a German eBayer, right? I know it's a long shot, and translated to English also, but has anyone had any experience with European eBay listings?


----------



## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Not sure, but I think a lever cap would be like the ones on the West German Fulton planes









They had a bar across the body like yours, and a screw-type of thick lever cap. That lateral would be above the screw in the cap.

Mine had a bolt instead of the rod. Might be like the caps on Liberty bell style planes?


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, Bandit! I gotta say, I got no idea what that type of lever cap is called, where a little thumbscrew applies the tension and fulcrums against a bar rather than a screw thru the keyhole. Yes, you are onto something there, I'd forgotten that Fultons are German! I've tried a Liberty Bell cap, from a #132, it was too wide, I think I have a #127 or other somewhere to try. I've got very few planes that are not of the typical Stanley lever cap design, hmm I'll have to work on that. If all else fails, I'll machine a block of brass, and bring it to the "Engravables" kiosk at the mall and have them do the DRP& Co logo, that would be uber-cool. Man, I'll be a hundred years old before all my projects are finished…


----------



## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Here is another DRP


----------



## stonedlion (Jan 12, 2011)

Poopiekat - ebay shows you listings from sellers explicitly willing to ship to your country.

But, you could go to www.ebay.de and search for handhobel (handplane) and ask a seller if they are willing to ship to you. I have had some luck that way.


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*Don, *You amaze me with your response once again!! That for sure is indeed the same plane body that I own, although in much better condition!! And the seller refers to it as a "Jordan"? wow… I'll start a search. At least now I know what that retainer and lever cap look like!! Fantastic, Don, I really owe ya for this! Wow, how much research did you put into this? I just bought a cutter on eBay, but it does not have those graduated notches, I purchased based on correct width alone…
*Richard:* Thanks for the suggestion, I actually did find my way to the German eBay site, but I figure, after noodling around, most sellers there would probably not prefer to ship to Canada.


----------



## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I've been searching and searching almost none stop!!!!

And if you believe that …. boy do I have a deal for you. Actually I just stumble onto it. I saw the plane on ebay, thought it looks cool and saw the DRP. I may do a little research with the Jordan name when time permits.


----------



## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Poopie, I can almost hear the spooge tank gurgle. That's gonna be a challenge.
I sure want to see the results.
Bill


----------



## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Something to shoot for









A Union #4G. This is after a few re-habs/refreshers. The before picture?









yep, it was ugly!


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks for the pics, *Bandit!!* 
yeah, I need a little reassurance that my three latest projects are not too far gone to save. I know I'm pushing it, buying that Union on the hope that it is an equivalent to a Stanley #2, and my weak spot for utterly wacko unusual planes. They end up in my critter corner, in individual Tupperware containers, 'til I can spend some quality liesure time like when I retire or my next extended sick leave….

*Don: * I went to the original listing, although closed, and that particular seller ships to the USA only. I'm registered as a Canadian user, and I'm automatically filtered out of those listings. That's why I never see such things! You're a great person to find, recognize, and post your discovery, it's why LJ is the best anywhere!


----------



## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Yet another, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Wood-Plane-3-Jordan-Germany-/111010525187?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d8be3003


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Wow, Thank You *DonW* for yet another posting of a Jordan plane! That one is exactly the same as mine, and complete! Again, this is a 'ship to USA only' listing, so I don't see it in my eBay search from my Canadian account. Apparently, Jordan made a multitude of iron tools I'm guessing during the post-WWII reconstruction period? Also, Don, I've got a 'Ritter' block plane on its way, will post some pics when it arrives.


----------



## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

That jordan plane will ship to Canada, just by USPS only. Cost would probably be a bit much though.


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, Don! There is some contradictory information in the listing, in one area it clearly states it will not ship to Canada. However, he says he will calculate international postage. He did not select the right parameters when setting up the ad. That is why I never saw this plane in my eBay search. Much appreciated! Hmmm, next.. I want my own Armstrong plane…


----------



## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*Contact The Seller* and ask him…

Shipping to Canada isn't a big deal is it?


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*Shipping to Canada isn't a big deal is it?*
yes, Joe, it is. Problems originate mostly by under-informed sellers and buyers. For example, a Canadian MUST specify shipping ONLY via USPS. If a package from the USA gets sent to Canada via UPS, for example, there will be a Brownie at your door with his hand out, wanting to collect bogus customs fees and brokerage duties. On my last purchase from the USA for some 80/20 aluminum, the purchase was $110, and I was on the hook at my door for $38 in UPS brokerage fees. No Pay, No Package! So… lots of Canadians say screw you, and the package goes back to the sender, who gets hit with a re-delivery charge. This understandably makes sellers wish to avoid dealing with Canadians.

Same is true of Fed-Ex, though they are a bit more sneaky, sending a bill for customs brokerage charges to the addressee after some time has passed. Canada Post?? I've heard they sometimes charge, but in the 100 or so purchases I've made from US sellers, never once did I have to pay any fees at all. I've only made an issue of it when I specifically ask for USPS, Royal Mail, etc, and the seller went ahead and put it through via UPS/FedEx. They get "incentives' if they have a shipper's account, I am told.

And then of course there are shippers who can't fill out a declarations form correctly, or use the wrong form. they have to eat the 'undeliverable' backcharge, and Paypal finds always in favor of the buyer. I could go on and on, there are many pitfalls to avoid, but the educated shipper has no problems… 30 minutes in the eBay discussion boards on international shipping will get you on the right track…


----------



## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I shipped to Canada once UPS. It was 3 planes. I called and got the prices. I didn't think it was to bad. $150 worth of planes and $45 shipping. They then charged the buyer $65 for all kinds of fees, plus they broke one of the plane totes.


----------



## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

A mystery plane for you PK.
 








The "white Lever" is for parts. That Black Lever cap one, is the Mystery plane. Picked both of these yesterday, on a rust hunt. Blackie is a #3 size, with a thick tapered iron. Ever see a solid steel adjuster wheel??? More pics later, if you want.


----------



## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

DRP probably stands for Deutch Republican Party (just a guess)


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, bandit! Hmmm, well I have only one #3 plane with a black lever cap. It's a generic, like yours but does not have a solid steel wheel. Does yours have a stamped steel frog? What is the name stamped into the iron?



















Here's some pics of planes I have that DO have solid adjuster wheels, and lo and behold, they're all Stanleys of the sick blue paint era, one of which is a Handyman!










Thanks for the pics, hmm maybe we need an *'Orphan Plane Identification*" thread where we can post the really difficult planes, by pics of all relevant components.


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks for the info, DonW! Shipping to Canada is a breeze, if you use USPS. Purolator, Fed Ex, UPS and any other courier service will get you dinged for subsequent Customs fees. If you have a Canadian customer that insists on one of the courier services, tell him what *HE* can expect.


----------



## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Mystery Plane has a cast iron frog. On the iron, I can make out two lines, wriitten in Script form. Apparenttly it is for someones True Value store. It has a cheapo lateral, stuck on an early Stanley frog. No "gap-toothed one here.

The "Parts Plane is a Worth (less, I know) that can provide spare parts for a PARPLUS #5 I have, even the (now) shiny lever caps match. There is a stamped steel "toad" under the iron on it. Dark blue paint on the base. Handle bolts are just that, bolts. One piece bolts.

Mystery Plane's tote is in the clamps, glued up a crack that went all the way through. May strip the finish( what's left) and see what the wood is. Maybe just a coat or two of BLO?

$25 for the pair, after talking they owners down from $40. So, about $12.50 a piece?? Not too hatefull. And, I still had to go to work that night, for a 12 hr. shift. Pictures are after some of the crud was cleaned up.


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

LOL, bandit I'm with you on the practice of calling a stamped steel frog a "Toad" !! Though I am hesitant, from a historical point of view, to mix parts from one or more planes to get one working, complete plane. Well, except from IDENTICAL planes. I don't even like to see contradictory brand of cutter on a given plane! The retail/collector value will never exceed its intrinsic value as a working plane. Having said this, it explains why I no longer buy generic toolbox planes. The absolute weirdo planes, yeah, I can't get enough of them! Sorry I can't be of more help, bandit. I'm thinking seriously about an orphan plane identification thread. Somebody out there must have that privileged knowlege about unmarked planes!!!


----------

