# Glue heat tolerance



## RajinCajun (Apr 4, 2009)

I build acoustic guitars and try to adorn them with bindings and other linear pieces to try to break up the round shape. On a current build, I want to put a wooden black-white-black strip below a maple binding. This is typically done as the binding is glued in place…but sometimes it twists or bulges. I want to glue the strips together and then bend with heat (350F). 
The question is: will titebond survive the heat bending?


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Everything I've read and experienced says Titebond lets go at a much lower temp…in the 150º range as I recall.


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## jdh122 (Sep 8, 2010)

I doubt it will work. I've tried going very light steam-bending, for Shaker boxes (thin wood, only needs 15 minutes in steam or hot water), with wood that was edge-glued with TB3. Tried the same thing on shop-cut 3/16 wood for a bowfront chest with a super gentle curve. No luck at all, the glue joint has always failed.
The result might be a bit different using dry heat, but I would be surprise/impressed if it worked.


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## Foghorn (Jan 30, 2020)

The one place where Titebond 3 works well for guitar building is this. The heat won't separate the purfling from the binding. The same reason TB 3 isn't good for other parts is it's not reversible and it creeps over time on stressed components. Steam bending also has no place in guitar building. Too much water and you'll have cupping on sides and separation of glue joints. The sides or bindings are bent on a hot pipe or side bending machine with a light spritz to avoid scorching. Heat is your friend when bending most thin woods used for guitar building..


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Darrel, that's really interesting…thanks for the info.


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## jdh122 (Sep 8, 2010)

Interesting. Maybe I should retry Shaker boxes with dry heat.


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## Foghorn (Jan 30, 2020)

> Interesting. Maybe I should retry Shaker boxes with dry heat.
> 
> - jdh122


Dry heat works well up to about .100" which is about the upper limit for guitar sides. Anything over that and you'll likely end up with lots of cracks. I bend between .080" and .090" thickness usually. A piece of thin stainless as a support backer also helps a lot when bending on a pipe. You could always laminate after bending if you need greater thickness though.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> The one place where Titebond 3 works well for guitar building is this. The heat won t separate the purfling from the binding. The same reason TB 3 isn t good for other parts is it s not reversible and it creeps over time on stressed components. Steam bending also has no place in guitar building. Too much water and you ll have cupping on sides and separation of glue joints. The sides or bindings are bent on a hot pipe or side bending machine with a light spritz to avoid scorching. Heat is your friend when bending most thin woods used for guitar building..
> 
> - Foghorn


That is interesting, and doesn't mesh with what Franklin says about their PVA glues.

*Frequently Asked Questions
What is the best way to disassemble a glue joint?

The key to the disassembly of glue joints is weakening the bond. For Titebond Original, Titebond II and Titebond III, raising the glue joint temperature with a heat gun or a blow dryer will reduce the glue's strength.*

Now an industrial heat gun could conceivably go over the OPs stated 350 degrees, but a blow drier, not quite that kinda warm, or they would be getting sued by bald Women. I'm gonna stand with Fred, and the reps from Franklin I have talked with, anything above 160* and their glue starts coming undone.

Gotten from

http://www.titebond.com/resources/use/glues

3/4way down the page.


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## Foghorn (Jan 30, 2020)

> The one place where Titebond 3 works well for guitar building is this. The heat won t separate the purfling from the binding. The same reason TB 3 isn t good for other parts is it s not reversible and it creeps over time on stressed components. Steam bending also has no place in guitar building. Too much water and you ll have cupping on sides and separation of glue joints. The sides or bindings are bent on a hot pipe or side bending machine with a light spritz to avoid scorching. Heat is your friend when bending most thin woods used for guitar building..
> 
> - Foghorn
> 
> ...


No problem. I'm just going by what has worked for me many times including last week and what other luthiers do. Polyurethane works as well but I hate messing with that stuff.


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## Foghorn (Jan 30, 2020)

> The one place where Titebond 3 works well for guitar building is this. The heat won t separate the purfling from the binding. The same reason TB 3 isn t good for other parts is it s not reversible and it creeps over time on stressed components. Steam bending also has no place in guitar building. Too much water and you ll have cupping on sides and separation of glue joints. The sides or bindings are bent on a hot pipe or side bending machine with a light spritz to avoid scorching. Heat is your friend when bending most thin woods used for guitar building..
> 
> - Foghorn
> 
> ...


No problem. I'm just going by what has worked for me many times including last week and what other luthiers do. Polyurethane works as well but I hate messing with that stuff. I bend at about 180C using a side bender and silicone blanket.

- Foghorn


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## Foghorn (Jan 30, 2020)

The wood purfling on this maple binding is one example of purfling glued on with TB3 and bent at 180C before installing on the guitar.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> The wood purfling on this maple binding is one example of purfling glued on with TB3 and bent at 180C before installing on the guitar.
> 
> - Foghorn


You do beautiful work.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Heat is the enemy of PVA glue. It is considered a thermoplastic. I saw a video a while ago about using a heat gun to take apart a PVA joint. Also, once a PVA joint is broken, you have to remove all of the old glue to get it stick again. Unlike hide glue, it won't stick to itself.


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## Foghorn (Jan 30, 2020)

> Heat is the enemy of PVA glue. It is considered a thermoplastic. I saw a video a while ago about using a heat gun to take apart a PVA joint. Also, once a PVA joint is broken, you have to remove all of the old glue to get it stick again. Unlike hide glue, it won t stick to itself.
> 
> - Lazyman


That's why hide glue is the best for instrument building. It won't release with heat alone and requires a little moisture in combination. Small separations can be fixed by adding a little hide glue and clamping. I built my first few with Titebond original which is still used by many luthiers and is a good choice. You're right though. Once you take it apart, you need to clean all of the old glue off. The nice thing with it is it releases at about 150F. I've pulled a lot of fingerboards and bridges as well as backs and sides using an old steam iron and a palette knife dipped in water. It releases well but all the old glue needs to be cleaned off before re-glueing. Titebond can say what it wants about TB 3. I have never used it for building as I ride on the shoulders off all those who did and experienced some horror stories trying to get it apart. I also use G2 epoxy for fingerboards as it releases almost as easily as Titebond original with heat. The big advantage is the neck doesn't move as it sometimes can when hide or Titebond is used introducing moisture on one side of the blank causing a backbow. Two way truss rods and carbon fiber rods make that pretty much a non-issue but I still do it as I'm stuck in my ways. 

Thanks for the kind comment Rich.


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