# How much to charge?



## BobD (Jan 20, 2009)

I am a homeowner that has spent the last two years completely remodeling the inside and outside of my house. I have done most of the work, but have hired a professional to do such things as hang a brand new wooden front door, complicated electrical work, plumbing etc. My wife has helped me a great deal with staining, sanding, priming and applying finish, and a good deal of other stuff. My house stands out as one of the better looking houses in the neighborhood and my neighbors and even strangers driving by the house have commented on how great everything looks.

Now I'm getting people asking me to do some of the DIY projects, such as paint a room, install moulding, hang doors, install wains coating etc.

How much do I charge for my services? How does one price for projects like those above? I don't have a contractors license (nor do I want one). I've been unemployed for 2 1/2 yrs due to the economy and at my age probably can't get another full time job in my field of learning, I'm an accountant, who happens to love woodworking and DIY home projects. I have not done these kind of projects for anyone else so I need some advice and suggestions on how to make these projects profitable.

Comments and suggestions welcome.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Wow, that's a hard question to answer. Before painting my walls, I would have said a few hundred bucks for a room. After painting the ones in my new house, I'm not sure anyone could afford me 30+ foot ceilings with wallpaper removal, patching, sanding, 2 coats kilz and 3 coats oil paint. I wouldn't do that again for a lot of money. I'm sure you'll get some good advice here.


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

Since you're in San Diego, you're within the jurisdiction of the CA Department of Consumer Affairs which handles contractor licensing. Although you said that you don't want a contractors license, you'll be breaking the law if you do more than $500 worth of work without one. And, breaking a $2,000 job into four $500 jobs doesn't fly.

That said, there are tons of folks out there working without licenses so you might get away with it. If you do, at least tell your prospective customers that you aren't licensed (which also means that you have no liability insurance or a bond) so they can decide if it's worth it to them. You'll also want to watch your back since the licensing board runs frequent sting operations.

I strongly recommend that you at least look at getting a license. It isn't really that difficult and your experience with your own house will probably go a long way toward meeting the experience requirements.


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## mpounders (Jun 22, 2010)

Well, you can charge by the hour and figure out how much you would like to make per hour. But most customers will want a fixed price (because they will worry that you will pad the bill), so you need to be pretty accurate in estimating how many hours it will take you to do something. And you have to describe and get the customer to agree to exactly what you will be doing and what they will end up with for x amount of dollars. And whether materials will be included or not. You have to be careful of little changes or additions that can turn your fixed price into working for free.


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## Richforever (Mar 19, 2008)

Since you're not doing this "as a business", I'd break each project down into small parts; develop a rapport with the "customer"; schedule the work when convenient for both of you; and before doing the work, show the customer an estimate of what you think it will cost to make you both "feel good". Because you don't do this as a full time job, your price might be a little higher, but you can accommodate both you and the customer better.

As the project progresses, you can suggest improvements and be more flexible than others - and this will be appreciated by the client and worth more. In other words, "be nice and not inexpensive".

Hope this helps,


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Think of it from an accounting point of view. Set up an estimating spread sheet. Each task you need to perform gets at least one line on the sheet. Each task gets the amount of time you think it will take and the materials it will take to perform that task. At the end you add up your time, multiplied by your hourly rate, and materials, plus a reasonable mark up.

The further you break it down, the more accurate you will be. The disadvantage is its easy to drive labor time out of whack with task broken out to much. Make the time realistic, but add for the things you may not see.

How you figure your hourly rate can also be figured from an accounting standpoint. Take what you think your worth (or what you think the market can bear) and add your cost.

Make sure all of your cost, such as gas, saw blades, paint brushes, paint thinner, nails, paper towels, etc, everything you need is either in overhead or materials for the job.

tally up your spreadsheet and you've got the cost of the job. Some lumber yards will give average sq foot pricing for some stuff. I don't recommend using it for pricing, but to start, you'll know if your in the ball park.

Last, each job you do keep track of your estimate and correct your mistakes. You'll find a lot of jobs are close to the same, and you'll just re-use the old spreadsheets with the required changes. Painting a 14×14 foot room should be pretty close to the same the next time you do it.

I also agree with sawkerf, running without a license and insurance can be a risky business. I understand when your starting out its extra overhead, but at least see what it will cost. It makes you look more professional and does protect you in certain circumstances. Some municipalities charge pretty large fines for such things. Your best advertising is word of mouth and "perception beats reality" every time.


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

I'm a retired teacher who has done some whole house remodels. Everything, kitchens, stairs, bathrooms, floors, etc. I don't tape sheetrock and don't paint walls though. Too tedious. Anyway, I charge $30/hr. That's in Maine. It might be different in other places. I do tell them though, and it makes the world of difference. I say… I'll be here 5-6 days/week till it's done and being older I'll work about 6 hrs a day but not less. And if I rest to long at lunch I'll deduct the time. And I won't start another job while I'm on yours.

People get the runaround so much with this type of stuff it's usually those statements that clinch the deal.


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## joeybealis (Jul 16, 2011)

I live in central Mississippi and we can do a 10,000 dollar job without a license. Even if you do a larger job we dont have any inspectors to worry about, that being said some banks require that you have a licensed contractor to get a loan to build a new house. But starting out on bidding your jobs figure the hourly you want and make a estimate of the hours you think the job will take and then add a few for safety. If it takes a few more hours so what, its better than sitting at home doing nothing. Try to do your jobs labor only but keep in mind that when you are picking up materials that it needs to be figured into your hourly rate. You can spend alot of time driving and walking around stores that you will need to get paid for. Now for the biggest piece of advice i can give you always do a written estimate and go into detail about what you are doing for what price. Even if you have known the people for your whole life you will be happier and they will be also. Last large job i did a few years ago was the daughter for a real good customer, i lost about 5,000 in labor because i didnt do a estimate sheet.


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

Don & Bob -

Running without a license can also cause problems for the customer when they try to sell a house. In CA, one of the questions on a disclosure is if the HO knows of any unpermitted work on the house. If they lie, they can be held liable years later.


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

ROC?


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## BobD (Jan 20, 2009)

Well CessnaPilotBarry you shouldn't be so shocked about what I do or do not know about reportable transactions with respect to filing a tax return!! That wasn't the question. Your rambling response must be an answer to another question or maybe your just venting about a previous personal experience with the IRS or a competitor.

I realize and understand the implications of state licensing, bonding. insurance, consumer protection, etc. Since this anticipated work for a person in the neighborhood is more than likely a one time shot, and I don't really expect it to grow into a full or part time business, my query was only about pricing the job.

Oh, BTW you guessed wrong. I am a CPA.

Some comments above recommend a job cost estimate using a spreadsheet which collects all the elements of cost of doing a job. Reviewing the estimate with the owner and getting acceptance and mutual agreement is a very good idea. Gathering cost data is relatively straightforward, it's the time estimate for each phase of the job that will be the most difficult to estimate. The largest cost factor is the direct labor amount (based on a per hour dollar amount and estimated time for completion) that seems to be the toughest item. The per hour labor amount, given the current state of the economy, must be fair and reasonable, yet competitive and profitable.


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## casual1carpenter (Aug 16, 2011)

BobD, I am confused. You say that you are not starting a business venture, yet you are proceeding as a business.

"The per hour labor amount, given the current state of the economy, must be fair and reasonable, yet competitive and profitable."

I think that perhaps one would look at cost of materials ans supplies, with perhaps a mark-up for procurement. I would consider tool wear and tear. Then anything above that is a bonus, someone pays for my hobby.

Pro's make money on their skill and ability levels and their quality production vs man-hours. Not to say you are not skilled, you might be very skilled, but business is about providing the level of standard the customer is willing to pay for, and at production levels that make it profitable.

Today was heavy trash day here, I put out a cast iron tub, nothing fancy mind you. Within one hour, the junk collector, not the trash guys, was straining his back loading it onto his truck. Now, I could have scraped the tub myself, and netted a few bucks, but I for one looked at diminishing returns, he was welcome to it.


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## BobD (Jan 20, 2009)

Casual1carpenter, perhaps you are right. I might be over thinking this whole thing. If I were pursuing this a full time venture, I would go about it in a totally different manner, meaning state licensing, insurance , bonding etc. Normally, I would just help someone with their minor home improvements and not expect to be compensated, but that can get out of hand very quickly. I want this to be viewed as "a neighbor helping a neighbor".


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## agallant (Jul 1, 2010)

I think you need to have various price models for different things. For example $15/hr may be reasonable for fixing squeaky doors and what not but i you charged $15/hr for painting a room that takes 8 hours you will spend an entire day painting for only $120. I have also noticed that people want to know what the cost if up front and if you run in to issues and have to go back to ask for more than the home owner tends to get pissed off about that. I find it best to build in as much 'what if' as I can to a quote.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

As a contractor of 22 years I have lost potential customers due to the their neighbors and friends taking work from me many times. My advice is you don't do contracting work and I won't do accounting. ) I've spent many years honing my craft and acquiring the correct tools and paying thousands for licences ,insurance and continuing education. One job might make you feel like you can do anything and may be you can but there are many liabilities involved in doing home repair and remodeling you could loose more than you gain through a law suite or unhappy friends and neighbors if things go awry. I know these are tough times and people need to do what they must to stay afloat but I would very careful dealing with the public regarding home repairs .The reason they want you to do the work is the expect you to charge far less than a contractor ,but they will expect your work to be as good or better than a contractor . I've also had a number of jobs that the customer has had a friend or neighbor do work for them and they have to pay me twice as much for me to fix what the friend or neighbor did for them. You can only guess what they have to say about the ex-friend after having to pay for a job twice.


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## LeeBarker (Aug 6, 2010)

Attempting to summarize from my biased point of view:

1. Wisdom suggests proper licensing and bonding. 
(my editorial: It's not a lifetime commitment. Try it for a year.)

2. Attempting to do professional work when you are not a professional and your customer is expecting professional work is a good way to lose friends and alienate neighbors.

People like to be fairly treated.

Jim and I have both been regularly harpooned by someone who has a Craftsman tablesaw in the garage and agrees to make a set of kitchen cabinets. That's just the backstory. What happens next we can describe in vivid, compressed detail.

Kindly,

Lee


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

Bob -

You seem to be trying to put lipstick on a pig here. If you want to help your neighbor, go for it…........as a neighbor. If, however, you're getting paid, it's a whole new ballgame with much different rules.

What you're proposing is illegal in CA. I don't know how things are going in San Diego (I'm about 6-8 hours north of you), but around here it isn't unusual for a legal contractor (i.e. licensed, bonded and insured) to drop a dime on guys like you. It's hard enough to get work without trying to compete with the hacks.

How would you feel about someone with a couple of classes in accounting hanging out their shingle as a CPA? - lol


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## SnowFrog (Jun 6, 2011)

Hi there;

First - I'm not a pro, did do extensive reno for me. I have lent my help to neighbours and friends but never under contract of any kind but as labor under their direction, I would advise but never decide. When there was money exchange it was what they deemed appropriate.

Second - The warnings from the pros above are clear if not overwhelming but from where I sit… Way over-the-top! The man is not talking about changing roof, outside wall or load bearing wall, rewiring a whole house or even plumbing of any kind. He said "such as paint a room, install moulding, hang doors, install wains coating etc."

I say, let the man be! Let him try. I bet you, few of the Pros started right off the bath as pros. My advise is, Don't try anything too big. Don't extend yourself nor your skills. Don't over promise on anything. Don't expect anything at first else than making a modest buck and helping a friend. If they appear too picky, walk away. And run with it for a while and see if it is something you truely want to dive into. If you really want to after a while then do it properly.

This of course is only MHO.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Snowfrog
My Comments might seem over the top to you but in an economic atmosphere like where in now a contractor might just survive on small jobs. It may not seem a big deal to you but if this kind of work effected your livelihood you might feel differently.


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## derosa (Aug 21, 2010)

I agree that those who are contractors seem to be blowing things out of proportion. Painting isn't that hard and once you've done enough rooms its easy, just remember the oil vs latex issue especially with old houses. 
When painting my wife's uncle's house I charged 100.00 for the small rooms 200.00 for the living room, master bed. In reality it should have been 125-150 for most of the rooms 250 for the living room and master. He paid for all the paint.

You're doing this as on the side jobs, only go with family and friend recommendations, keep it simple and don't expect to make as much as you would if you were a pro. Better you spend a little extra time being nitpicky and make a little less then go too fast. In my experience they aren't expecting a pro job and aren't paying for it, but you should still be putting all your effort into it and make it good enough that they won't notice the tiny imperfections that you will. If you know the person to be OCD, walk away.

Try for between 12-20.00 an hour based on your local pay scale. It might not sound like much but without taxes and anything else coming out of it you should be making out ok. I've usually made about 1200-1500 in two weeks which doesn't sound like a lot but when you're broke and can fold all of it and stick it in your pocket it isn't a bad thing. If you start getting too many recommendations then start filing the right paperwork and upping your prices to match.


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

Snowfrog -
No, the comments from us pros aren't "over the top". They're based on our knowledge of how someone legally goes about working for hire.

While it's true that Bob didn't mention structural, electrical, or plumbing work, the jobs he mentioned are - in fact - subject to licensing requirements in CA. In CA, ANY work over $500 must be performed by someone with the appropriate license(s), bonds and insurance.

In his first post, Bob said that people were asking him to do work and he wanted help deciding what to charge. In his last post, it became a "one time shot" for a neighbor. In either case, the legal requirements apply.

You say "Let him try", and I agree that there's nothing we can do to stop him. However, when those of us who do it by the book are struggling to get work, don't expect a lot of sympathy and support for someone trying to game the system.


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

I don't know about California but I'd think in most other states unless it's plumbing or wiring it's legal. I've even given people a paper bill of things done that is accepted by the bank which requires proof of money spent on what it was borrowed for.

I show people pictures of my work or have them go see it. I tell them that I'm no professional, just a retired school teacher but if they like the work I should be able to duplicate it for them as I did on the one they looked at.

And I'll tell ya, that between good power tools that let you look better than you are, Youtube that lets you see something done, and places like LJ's that fill in the blanks, along with a bit of common sense, many people can successfully garner woodworking jobs in homes of people and they be happy people in the end.

And Like I said before, promise to be there and work at it and only at it till the job is done and they'll love you. Contractor horror stories are common but not usually for shoddy work but for sporadic work. A two week job stretches to two months because they don't show up much or take on other jobs at the same time after the contract is signed.

As for California. Well, when I order something online half the time it's says "not approved for sale in CA". Usually that's the only state. Sometimes it's a motor without a special carburetor, sometimes it has the wrong paint, sometimes it's the wrong cloth, sometimes the reason is not at all obvious. But, it's usually the only place. If they limit the work people can do with wood then that's their business but most other places it's not considered a danger to let someone trim your windows with molding.

So, charge a little less, promise to be there and let them know what to expect in workmanship and go for it. I'll bet there are Contractors out there helping a neighbor change out the carburetor in their car thus taking work away from their local mechanic. People get it where they can and at the price they can. For one, I take it when I can.


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## mnguy (Feb 4, 2009)

As a degreed engineer who did handyman work for a couple years after a layoff, I can relate to everything said so far. The safest route is to either get the licenses and insurance, or to have the neighbor hire you as a laborer. Seems like neither approach will work, because you don't think you want to be a contractor longer term, and if your neighbor had tools and could give you work direction, why would they need you?

From my perspective, if you are talking about a project here and there, skip the license and stay away from structural, electrical and plumbing. Try to focus on small repairs, cabinets, trim carpentry. The licensed pros have a great point about leaving things to the pros, but a lot of licensed pros F*** things up, too. So, mitigate your risk. As for what to charge, I would do time and materials, not a fixed bid. Even though you have done projects at home, estimating is an art honed by practice, which you don't have, and if you goof on materials, that's cash out of your pocket. If your neighbor doesn't trust you to be fair with him, skip the project. As for what to charge, you could look at comps from local unlicensed handyguys. Alternatively, maybe you look at what licensed guys charge, and only charge a little less; this way, you are arguably not undercutting them, since your neighbor could get the benefit of a license and insurance for only a little more $.

I'm not for taking work away from the licensed guys, but realistically, you could do a lot of what they do with equivalent quality.


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## agallant (Jul 1, 2010)

So I want to know how many pors here had their license and insurance on day one of working on their own


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I hate to prolong the pro's view verses the it's ok to do what you want regardless of rules and laws group conversation, but in Oregon you must be licensed to do any work over $500 or face penalties up to $5000. In most things I'm very forgiving and try to be kind and helpful, but when I have an unlicensed person bidding on the same job I am I'll report them in a New York minuet . I view them as thieves steeling my income from my family.As Mnguy says contractors can mess things up too but the difference is with a licensed contractor the customer has recourse through the builders board. As Craftsman on the lake said there are states that do not require contractors to be licensed or bonded, but for the states that are smart enough to protect the consumer,for those wanting to do home repair just follow the laws and rules . nothing complicated. Yes I was licensed before I took my first job.


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

Found this about some states:

~Pennsylvania and Maine do not require any carpentry exams or licenses.
~Kansas, Idaho, New York and Colorado do not have state licensing requirements, but may have licensing requirements at the local level.
~Nevada requires all carpentry contractors to be licensed, as do Hawaii and West Virginia.
~Mississippi and Alabama require carpenters to pass not only a trade exam, but a business and law management exam as well.
~Alabama requires carpenters to get a license if they are working as general contractors on commercial projects costing more than $50,000 or residential projects costing more than $10,000.
~In Mississippi, a license is required for all but the smallest construction projects.
~North Carolina requires carpenters working as general contractors on any jobs costing more than $30,000 to take an exam and get a license.
~In Texas, only specialty contractors doing work such as plumbing, electrical, HVAC, and a few other specialties need to be licensed.


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

That's all very interesting, Craftsman, but it's irrevalent to this discussion. Bob isn't talking about working in those states.

Agallant - I spent the majority of my working life as a licensed engineer. When I occasionally found myself between engineering jobs, I worked for GC's I knew until I got another engineering gig. When I "retired" from engineering, I got my license before I took my first job.


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

"That's all very interesting, Craftsman, but it's irrevalent to this discussion. Bob isn't talking about working in those states."

Oh….Nevermind.


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

In CA, it's the CSLB (Contractor State Licensing Board) They maintain the lists of licensed contractors by speciality, contact info, and status of the license and bond. They don't get into the quality of the work.


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## doughan (Apr 22, 2011)

While the law says you need to be licensed to do any work over 500 dollars in california that dollar amount hasn't been changed in at least 25 years.Can you still buy supplies for the same amount you could 25 years ago as a contractor?gas to get to the job or the things buy with the profit from the job like food or electricity to power your computor?
I say if you are a legal resident of the country and you need to do work to make a living …do it…do a great job…and if anyone tries to arrest you for it take it to a jury trial and someone like me will set you free with a hung jury.
yes i'm a licensed contractor…and I don't care if you try to compete with me…..as long as you are here legally.
if they can't stop contractors from hiring illegallabor why should they try to stop a one man show from feeding himself…..my .02$


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## BobD (Jan 20, 2009)

Spirited conversation for sure but some really good points made by all. The replies above seem to pit two sides of the coin…"professional contractors'" on one side and "do what you have to do to support yourself" on the other.

Fearing this thread could get very political very quickly, I have to say something, albeit political, about how and why we find ourselves on each side of the coin. It all comes down to "trust". Why do we have licensing boards (read that to mean a layer of government bureaucrats) in some states? Answer…supposedly to protect the public from unscrupulous, dishonest and incompetent persons holding themselves out as contractors. Does it work? yes and no. I don't know for sure, but what are the continuing education requirements for a contractor after they receive their initial license? How do they prove they are still capable with regard to new technology(equipment, materials etc) and always changing building codes? That is policed by yet another layer of government…building inspectors (now there is a group that can discriminate or look the other way). Do all the layers of government really protect the public and produce buildings that will last? Just think of the amount of money it takes for a state(or city, or county) to operate just those two layers of government. No wonder a professional contractor is having a hard time making a profit. I can imagine the hoops they must have to jump thru. So we are forced to "trust" the system by funding the system with outrageous fees and taxes. Does this great recession affect the employment levels at these layers? Bet not, these layers are protected because they are immune to a competitive supply and demand economy.

To bring it back to the points made in this thread…So that is why pro contractors are screaming about hacks and unlicensed persons taking their work. The pros have to deal with a different set of fixed and variable costs which must be covered by higher revenues, meaning higher prices to the ultimate consumer. However, many pros will not even bid on the smaller jobs because they don't produce enough dollars to cover the time spent on the project to cover overhead. OK, then don't bitch if someone is willing to do that small job because they "have to". We could get into what caused such a terrible and unrelenting economy, federal government rules and regulations, unemployment, politicians etc but that is a different thread, and I don't want to go there right now.

In summary, all good points made in the replies above depending which side of the coin you choose to be.


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## rustfever (May 3, 2009)

As a licensed contractor in California, I have seen this type of 'Book-Leg' contracting before.

I also have seen some good, well meaning craftsmen hurt financially doing what you are proposing. In California, you must be licensed as a contractor to use the court system. That is, No License, You Loose. Any customer can decide to fail to pay you and you cannot proceed with ANY type of action against them. [Legal action, that is. However, you could possibly use a baseball bat. But that gets you closer to the penial system than I care to go].

Of course, you are only going to hire out to friends and family. And they will all jump to pay you eferything you bill them for, Right? Ya, Sure, Right!

I give you 6 month before you; A. change tunes, B. have been beaten out of a significant amount of money, or C. fall into the CLB's 'Sting operation' for unlicensed contractors.

You might try 'Boot-legging' in other states, but not California.


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

Bob -
You raise some interesting philosophical points, but we live and work in the real world.

Rather than try to respond on a point by point basis, I'll ask you if you have all of the merit badges required to be a practicing CPA in CA - including continuing education. Assuming that you do, ask yourself how you might respond to someone who's had a few accounting classes, done a few 1040A's for friends, and now wants to work as a CPA.

As far as the pros passing on the small jobs, that's not really happening too much lately. All the pros I know are going after every lead they get.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Hey Bob
I agree that this thread seems to teeter back and forth according to one's point of view. I know people will do what there going to do to support them self and their families. At this point you know the pit falls of doing remodeling work over $500. I understand you where just asking a simple question about what and how to charge for work you plan on doing. I agree with the point that all the rules and laws may just be something that"*a layer of government bureaucrats"*has put together,but all of us have to live by many laws and rules put together that we may not agree with but we still have to conform to these rules and laws or pay the price in the form of penalties or even jail time. If you and others choose to do things that may cause you to be penalized in this way no one can stop you. I was recently asked if I had to steal to feed my family and to my own surprise I said yes. I find it sad that some one with your education has to think about painting rooms to make ends meet. I wish you and yours well in spite of us having a difference of opinion .


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## doughan (Apr 22, 2011)

No one in california that is just doing work and satisfying customers will get anything close to jail time for contracting without a license.The usual fine is about what you would have paid anyway to get a license and even that is suspended if you get licensed with in a certain time frame.
Sad that we have come to the point of even thinking that a man or woman trying to work and make a living needs to look over their shoulder for the government.
There are laws against fraud,and theft already.Yes ,little old ladies in the past got taken in by con men.That likely won't ever stop,but jailing a person that wants to support themselves while rewarding people with their hand out has gone too far.
george orwell was right.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Doughan
I was talking about breaking rules and laws in general not specifically contracting with out a licence . Going to jail for not having a contractors licence would be absurd.)


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## BobD (Jan 20, 2009)

a1Jim, Thank you for your comments and it is comforting that even though we may have a difference of opinion about some things, we can discuss it in a civil manner. I wholeheartedly agree that we must live by the rules and regulations as passed by our leaders in all levels of government (federal, state, county, and city). Some of these people are elected, others are appointed and a great number of them are employees. We "the people" still have a strong voice in how these rules and regulations affect our lives whether as an employer or the "public" in general. That voice is called the election ballet box. Hopefully, when we elect a good public official, his or her philosophies will be pushed downstream and implemented.

You mention how sad it is for me to make ends meet by painting rooms. Jim, I'm all right even without doing odd DIY jobs for a fee. Although I doubt if I will ever be able to work again in my chosen field, I have a saved over the years and have a modest retirement fund. Truth be known, the real reason for doing these small projects is to have some play money to support my life long passion-golf. I've been playing golf since I was 9 years old and it is a sport that can be very addictive. Unfortunately, the price of golf in Sp. Cal. is not cheap. So I will continue to play for as long as I am able.
Wishing you well also.


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## topcat (Oct 2, 2011)

Bob,
This is a question I've been struggling with for a long time. I'm in the same boat as you, unemployed for 2 1/2 years, yadda, yadda. The difference is I've done carpentry for 20 years. This means I can do the work, but estimating is a completely different animal. Since you have no overhead costs, the question should be "how much is the job worth to you." You can guess how long the job will take, then settle on a price with yourself, first. If it takes a little longer, so what. You're still going to make something. Just start out with small jobs. It's the best way to learn, and don't worry about under charging. Just have fun, learn the work and the pricing and you'll make more than just being unemployed.


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## usnadad (Aug 26, 2011)

National Construction Estimator can be handy.

http://www.craftsman-book.com/products/info/nce.htm


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