# How to make money as a woodworker



## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

My wife got laid off and had to take a much lower paying temporary job, while I was trying to get a woodworking shop put together, get some skills, and start some sort of a business, so now we're up against it. I'm 60 ( yeah that picture is 30 years old ), so getting a job is getting really difficult, and I'm hoping to make it on my own.

I want to start making things out of wood that I can sell. I'd like to make the equivalent of a decent paycheck doing this, and I haven't got the faintest idea of where to start. What types of things to make, how to market them, what appropriate price points are, etc, so I'm asking all you experienced woodworkers for help and advice. Anything that any of you could tell me would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jerry


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

You're in for a harsh ride.

Can you do custom casework? Are you able to do the lifting
and squatting involved in doing cabinet installations?

If you want to make products that can move at modest shows,
these are things that can sell, though they are all rather 
generic and that will depress the prices you can get for
them:

- birdhouses
- cutting boards 
- jewelry boxes
- pizza peels

A major factor that is going to depress your income is sanding
time. I would not recommend a drum sander. A stroke
sander is way faster.


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

Loren, thank you for the great information, No, I can't do custom casework, but I am very strong - 40 years of doing Traditional Chinese martial arts ( Eagle Claw ) has kept me very fit and limber, I have legs like tree trunks and I can still bench 300 lbs, but I doubt that will help me make money woodworking…


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Great. I do way more heavy lifting than I would have
ever expected in doing woodworking. I kind of like
it but at times I got hurt when I was younger… now
I work out in part just to stay fit enough not to get
hurt when I'm moving 90lb. sheets around or doing
lean-over lifts of cabinets.

There's some market for refinishing services. It's awful
work but people want it done. Floors refinishing also.

There's somebody on here who refinished for many
years and he said it was the least fun but the best
money he ever made in woodworking I think.

People want furniture repaired too, which is cool but
the repairs are often minor and they don't want to
move the pieces to your shop… if you can offer
pickup and delivery that can help secure repair and
refinishing jobs.


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## InsideTheBox (Oct 25, 2013)

I wish I had an answer for you. Everything I've made so far has been a gift for someone… although I am running out of people to give things to and I am going to have to start justifying the expense of the tools… By showing off the few things I've made to some of my peers, I've gotten a few "I want one, too!!"s and people are willing to pay, but that's not making a living. LJ is a good site for inspiration, but the speed-up videos and photos don't show the sweat and tears.. hopefully not much blood… that goes into a lot of these projects. Best of luck to you - I look forward to seeing more of your work!


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Jerry-Ever heard of Ron Brown? He is a pro who does the Woodworking Shows circuit … he also offers a free business plan for people who want to do woodworking as a business. All you need to do is shoot him an email and request it. Here is a link to the relevant page on his website:

http://www.coolhammers.com/earn_$50_hr_with_lathe.htm

Try this link to send him an email: Business plan for Free (this link may or may not work depending on the email system you are using).


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

To learn any trade well enough to "make a living" at it takes 4-6 years or more of working for professionals in that trade. This is why apprenticeships exist. I sell my wood working items (Seven years now) but make about 1/10 of what I made as a construction tradesman. If I needed more money I would look for a job. UGH!


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## GpaLarry (Feb 23, 2014)

I make bird houses from cedar fence boards, no finishing or adornments. They sell rapidly @ $15 for a single occupant size. 2 nests size $18. There are so many hobby type projects you can build and sell at farmers markets, flea markets, & the like. I'm older than you & living with a serious back injury. Because of this I found a money making hobby in up-cycling old furniture. It's a lotos fun. I go to yard sales, estate sales, and shop sites like Craigslist to get my little friends to love & build. I have even found treasures on the curb waiting for the garbage truck.
Best of luck on your voyage, remember "Do what you love ,Love what you do."


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

RE TheDane: Thanks amigo, I will follow up on that


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

RE Loren: Thanks for the refinishing and repair idea. I actually love doing that type of work. I spent 5 years restoring an FJ40 Land Cruiser so I got good with finishes.


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

RE GpaLarry: That is great information Larry, thank you very much. I am getting a lot of great ideas here, THANK YOU EVERYONE!


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## JimRochester (Dec 24, 2013)

Don't know anyone that can make a full living selling craft items. I price mine at 2 - 2.5 times wood cost and still don't make minimum wage after sanding and finish times. Cabinet work and some carpentry would probably get you more of a living. Tons of Amish around make quite a living making furniture.


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## huff (May 28, 2009)

Jerry,

I wish there was a simple answer to your questions, but like Loren said; You're in for a harsh ride.

That is not a negative, but starting and building a woodworking business ( like a lot of other businesses) is not a get rich quick, sucess overnight, instant rags to riches venture.

There are a couple ways to start and build your business that has been mentioned above. TheDane gave you good advice and a link to making a business plan and that is very important if you want to build a sucessful business.

There's a lot to a business plan then that, but that's a good starting point.

Another way of building your business is like Loren mentioned; that is maybe selling some items that you build, but also do other type of woodworking besides, like furniture repair and/or refinishing. This gives you a better chance to build a customer base on what you design and build and still generate a paycheck while it develops. You should still have a business plan, but it's some great ideas other then just trying to decide what to build and sell to start with.

It's strictly up to you what you build and sell or what other type work you may do along with your woodworking, but the most important thing to remember is "Marketing"!

*The reason most woodworkers have a hard time making a living doing woodworking is "not" their lack of woodworking talent, or the product they build, but their lack of knowing how to market themselves, their business and their products!*

You can build the most beautiful furniture going, but if you can't reach the right customer, you will have nothing. We may be woodworkers, but we are in the "people business", so we have to learn how to deal with people.

I started my business with no tools, very little woodworking experience and virtually no budget, but I was able to build a sucessful business realizing there was a lot more to owning and operating a woodworking business then simply knowing how to build something. When I first started my business, my wife had a good job and it helped pay the household bills while I was building my business, but a couple years into it, my wife was diagnosed with terminal cancer and was no longer able to work. I had no choice, either I was going to make a living for my family doing woodworking or I would have to find a job to pay the bills.

I don't have much patience for those that whine about not being able to make a living doing woodworking! Trust me, you can and I wouldn't have traded it for any other career.

Feel free to ask me any questions you may have about having a woodworking business, I'm retired now and would like to help others enjoy the world of woodworking.

I have written a blog series on both pricing your woodworking and another series on how to market and sell your woodworking. There may be some information in those that may help you.

Good luck,


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

John, Thank you VERY much for your inspirational words. I would like to see your blog, but did not see a link for it on your website. I'm going to PM you with a couple of questions.


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## huff (May 28, 2009)

Jerry,

My blog series is here on LJ's so you can just click on blog on my avitar and it will take you directly to them.

Thanks and I'll look for your PM.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

I started 5 years ago. I have a full time job, and if things go well by the end of this year I hope to be making a decent sustainable profit from the woodworking. It could be done faster than that, but not a lot faster. My other problem is that I am working as fast as a one-man shop can.

You need to be unique. If you do the same thing as an established business, you will lose. I wish you well sir. I would be glad to answer questions if I can.


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

Thanks John, I see it now. Let me read through your series before you answer my marketing questions, if I still have some after that then I will ask, but for now you can just ignore the questions in the PM


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

Monte, thanks, I may take you up on that.


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## changeoffocus (Dec 21, 2013)

Jerry,
What did you do for a living before trying to start your woodworking venture? 
I am a big proponent of any kind of service offering, as Loren pointed out, people want things done and they like to keep things with attachments and they want it picked up and delivered. 
My wife has had the same chair reupholstered twice in our 48 years of marriage, both times at a price greater than a new one, all she did was ask for price, no shopping. 
By the way I am in full support of her decision. 
You just have to be good at what you do and honest with your customers. 
Good luck,
Bob


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## Pezking7p (Nov 17, 2013)

Hire a skilled woodworker (or multiple woodworkers) on a contractual basis who is looking to make some money on the side. Spend your time developing a business and customer base.

The key to success in any business is not to spend your time making things, but to spend your time selling things. Hire someone else to make stuff.


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## BJODay (Jan 29, 2013)

Jerry,

I had an acquaintance who had a woodworking business. His hope was to build and sell dining room tables. He had several very good designs and did nice work. He always had a hard time making ends meet. I wish I knew a fraction of what he knows. I wish I had skills like his.

Maybe it would pay off to work for a cabinet or furniture maker. You could learn a lot. It wouldn't be your own business, but you could get paid to do something you enjoy.

BJ
From the other Milwaukee


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

RE Bob Current What did you do for a living before trying to start your woodworking venture?

I spent about 15 years trying to make it as a martial arts instructor, I was a very good teacher without a clue as to how to make it into a business. Then I decided to just teach small groups on the side.

After that, I built an espresso cart in the beginning of the espresso craze, landed a contract with the local VA hospital, and stayed there operating that business for 5 years. At the very end, competition forced me out because I didn't have the foresight to expand into other areas once they built the skybridge connecting the VA Hospital to OHSU. All of my clients who used to make the walk over from OHSU to the VA to buy my coffee stopped coming when they opened their own espresso cart on the OHSU side. If I'd seen that coming, I'd have built and staffed a second cart on that side, but the loss of that much business made it impractical to carry on.

After that, I decided to re-invent myself, spent some serious time with computers and the Adobe suite of products, taught myself graphic design, website development, etc. ( I still maintain a website for that stuff here and I occasionally get freelance graphic design and website development gigs. ) and went on to become a graphic designer and digital pre-press technician. I managed the one of the top large format graphic design houses in Portland, OR for about 4 years until the owner sold the business and there was no place for me since the new owner was going to step into my position.

After that, my wife and I decided to start our own mortgage loan processing business, so I built a couple of high powered computers, the systems and infrastructure for a paperless office, and we went to town doing that for about a year, then the housing market crashed, and the money was just not coming in, so she went to work for Wells Fargo as a loan processor, then got promoted to Underwriting, was doing extremely well, top of her class, so to speak, then Wells had mass layoffs starting with 2600 people the first go around, then there were 5 more mass layoffs. She survived the first 4, but did not have the seniority to survive the last one, so now she's working at half the pay in a temp job, and I'm trying to reinvent myself again doing something that I really love for a change.

I sure hope I succeed, I'm going through Huffs blog right now, and it is very encouraging.


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## HowardInToronto (Sep 27, 2013)

There's lots of good, valuable advice here.

Both Monte and Loren have a lot of practical insight to offer.

But I'd like to throw something different into the mix.

Instead of thinking products, start thinking markets.

In other words, rather than a quick race to the bottom selling low price low profit items that millions of other woodworkers offer, why not look deep inside yourself and think of all the knowledge and interests you have and ask yourself what people with the same interests would buy if they knew where to find it.

Thinking of boxes? Why not custom cases for pool cues. Or cases for RC cars.

Birdhouses? Make a few that match houses. Take a photo of the house. Show the birdhouse next to the pic. Now instead of pennies, you can charge much more because no-one else is offering that in your area. Get a deposit to help cash flow. And then work like the dickens to finish it and get the rest of the money.

Just some general ideas. But the formula of thinking markets vs thinking products is a life-changer.

Howard


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## Kentuk55 (Sep 21, 2010)

Somewhere on in LJ's pages, there is a jock that did a detailed explanation of just that. I thought I had it in my favs, but, nope. Good luck to you.


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## changeoffocus (Dec 21, 2013)

Jerry, 
You have a lot of pluses and experience with hard knocks, I'm seeing some great advice being offered by the group. 
Good luck and keep you chin up, we all have your back. 
Bob


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## Puzzleman (May 4, 2010)

Jerry, you *can* make money doing art and craft shows. Is it easy? NO Is it hard? YES Can you make money at it? YES

I make puzzles. I have built a successful business to where I now have 10 people working for me making puzzles. I started attending shows, doing as many as 35 a year. I will travel up to 14 hours driving to get to a show. Mind you that I only attend shows that have an attendance of at least 100,000, preferably 200,000 plus. These shows are not cheap nor easy to get into. But once you get in, you can make some serious money. I currently have reduced my show schedule down to 10 shows as I have increased my wholesale business to where it sustains the shop. I won't do a show unless I have a good chance of making at least $5k in one weekend. I do several shows where I consistently make over $10k in one weekend.

You need to have a good product that others won't want to do or can't do as good as you. My thing is that I do personalized puzzle stools. I do many other items but the stools are 80% of my business. I do them with higher quality than anyone else out there. I do them quicker than anyone else out there. So I get to charge more than anyone else out there.

Some of the things that I have learned are: Marketing is number 1. Without marketing, nothing is going to get sold. No matter how good it is. You can be the best at what you do, but if you don't know how to sell it to someone else, it isn't going to sell.
Pricing & Cost Control go together is number 2. Read Huff's blog on pricing. Don't be afraid to put a high price on your work, if it is worth it. I proudly tell my customers that you will pay me more for this product than my competitor will charge. I then explain why mine is worth the extra cost. Like I tell my new customers, there is a reason that I have so many returning customers. Watch your costs. Don't cheat yourself. Track your time doing tasks and compute your time for each product and figure out how much to make for each hour. don't settle for less.
Woodworking skill is number 3. I have seen some things that make me shake my head but they sell like hotcakes. Why? Marketing. Good woodworking is needed but again marketing is number 1.

Selling was not my thing before doing puzzles. I hated selling. Couldn't do it. Noway, no how. However, when your back is up against the wall and you need money, you will step out onto the ledge of salesmanship. I learned to do it by being passionate about my work. Now I feel that I can sell almost anything. Some of things that helped me were: Taking classes at the community college about sales, practicing while driving to the shows, recording and listening and critiquing my sales talk and reading every book, new and old, on sales.

It is possible, just not easy.


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## huff (May 28, 2009)

Jerry,

Jim, (puzzleman) is a great example of having a successful business and offers some of the best advice. Pick his brain and listen to what he has to say and it will help you along the way.

Monte is also a good example of having a successful business and always has something positive to say. Even though he recently lost his shop in a fire, he didn't let that stop him or I doubt even slow him down much. He may not feel he's where he wants to be yet with his business, but I would venture to guess he is a lot farther along to having a profitable business than many.

Another one that I thought had some really good input is; HowardInToronato. He also gave some good ideas on one of the other forums you should take the time to read. Anyone care to discuss your prodecures or formulas, if any, for pricing of your products?

Lots of good advice from many, but these three always get my attention.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Their a lot of variables to making a living in woodworking ,Take a look at all the other post that cover the subject very well.

http://lumberjocks.com/search_results?cx=017914489645407774653%3Agwwk-zif3wk&cof=FORID%3A9&safe=high&q=woodworking+as+a+business&sa.x=4&sa.y=13


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

Wow guys, I don't know what to say, so many responses, so much good advice. I appreciate this very very much. Many thanks to Huff for his amazing information on marketing which I am still devouring. HowardInToronto has given some amazing insight into this, and what he says goes right along with Huff. Monte has good advice, and Puzzleman, thank you so much for your extremely well thought out response. A1Jim, as usual, you have come through for me with this search. Looks like I have a little homework to do . I hope I've not left anybody out. Bob Current has sent me a wonderful PM with some great ideas that I will be responding to in kind. Thank you one and all for your support, it means a lot to me, and I now feel armed with some seriously good advice, information, insights, and ideas.


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