# Molding Head for Table Saw



## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

I just watched another of the old New Yankee Workshop episodes over the internet. In the episode currently available, Norm uses a molding head on his table saw. I have never seen a molding head for a table saw.

Does anyone use these things anymore?


----------



## manumurf (Mar 4, 2010)

I have one, actually two. One has 3 knives the other has 2. I would think the hard thing to find would be knives that are shaped the way you want. I think mine is a Craftsman Brand, I would have to look when I get home.

It came in a box with five sets of knives, tounge and groove, window sash, male and female, and a beading one.

Rick3ddd's post below shows something similar to my reaftsman one in the Carob Cutters link.


----------



## Ger21 (Oct 29, 2009)

Actually, he gave you the link to a shaper cutter. The table saw molding head is here.
http://www.lrhent.com/magic.htm

You can get them at Amazon.


----------



## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

I'm almost embarrassed. I have been involved in woodworking for a long time and for the last 3 years (since I retired) I have become a very active woodworker. Nonetheless, I had never heard of putting a molder or shaper on a table saw until I saw the old New Yankee Workshop episode today. These molders look very interesting. Are there safety concerns - like the risk of a blade flying off?


----------



## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

hey rich..i inherited one from a friend some years ago…a sears model..the blades are quite safe as they have an allen screw to secure each cutter…the guy i got mine from didnt go about useing it right..and it scared him…but ive had it for some time now, and if you are safe with it just like any tool..it can be a nice addition to the shop ..


----------



## Viking (Aug 26, 2009)

Rich;

I have the Craftsman molding head also. Bought in the early 1970's when I was restoring an 1880's house we owned. Used it to create some replacement molding. When I bought the house it had been a rent house for over 50 years so was quite a bit of the molding that was in really bad shape because renters don't take care of a place like an owner / occupier would.

The Craftsman molding head had three cutters and came with five different sets of cutters. Luckily all the patterns I needed were included. I felt that it was as safe as a dado head. Still have it but 95% of its use was when I was doing the house restoration.

I actually installed on my radial are saw a long time ago. You had to remove the blade guard to use it. It scared the crap out of me when I turned it on. Took it off without ever using it on the RAS. It works great on a table saw though.


----------



## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

I had a fairly elaborate 3 knife Craftsman set for a while. They can do some things that other tools can't but the steel blades aren't likely to stay sharp very long. It sounds like an airplane taking off and the thing always scared me more than I was comfortable with so I sold it.


----------



## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

Okay - I have to show my ignorance. Can anyone tell me the difference between a molder and a shaper?


----------



## mike85215 (Oct 16, 2009)

Rich…I have been looking at buying a molder for my unisaw for about two months now. I like the idea of using the table saw that I already own rather than buying a shaper/molder. But I must admit that the single biggest reason that I have not done it yet is that it scares me. They are not very popular and my logic tells me that there is a reason for that. And the fact that I think their advertising is a little "cheesy" has kept me from buying one. But I am curious as to how others that have used the product thinks about it after using it.
I am glad that you started this thread as I am still considering this as an option.


----------



## dmorrison (Jun 20, 2009)

Rich 
I have 2 molding head units. One is a Sears 3 head cutter. Much like the Carobcutter. I also have a 2 head cutter which is like a rectangular bar that holds 2 heads at each end. I have used the Carobcutter type unit numerous times. It works well but you have to be careful about the feed rate and depth of cut. Feed to quickly or to large of a cut and it could send it back to you very quickly. It is susceptible to kick back. But if you take shallow cuts, and you can hear how its going as you feed it, It works well. The table saw with a molding head sounds like a shaper when running.

Shaper vs. molder. I have always figured it depends on the position of the arbor of the machine. A table saw with a horizontal arbor uses a molding head. A Shaper has a vertical arbor and so uses a shaper head. I may be wrong but that is always what I have seen. Another consideration is the surface being cut. The table saw will allow the flat of a piece of wood to be cut. Cutting the edge requires the wood to be fed vertically. Which is a little more tricky, for this I would rather have a shaper. But with the proper jig it can be done safely.

Now a question for those of you out there. I have considered using the molding head on the table saw to cut cove molding. I know you can do it with a normal blade and feeding the wood at an angle with a stationary fence. But why not us a molding head with a 1" flute head. I would think that it would cut smoother and do a better job on the molding. Any comments?

Dave

PS here is an article on using a molding head on a Shopsmith.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/proj_articles/tablesawmolding/


----------



## Eagle1 (Jan 4, 2010)

When I bought my saw the otherday at sears. I was buying a dado blade setup. I saw the blades for the cutting heads that Norm was using.


----------



## Chipncut (Aug 18, 2006)

These have been around for a long time, but they're very dangerous if not used properly.

*You can get severe kick back from them.*


----------



## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

Thanks for all the great input and advice on molder heads.

I've pretty well decided that I am not going to get a molder head at this time, if ever. I've already have lots of ways to hurt myself.


----------



## jacktheripper (Mar 28, 2009)

Dado blades and molding cutters will push the board up and kick back a board much more often than a saw will- and they will turn your fingers into mince meat

When using my molding heads on the tablesaw, I never hold down the wood with my fingers. Take the time to clamp a featherboard down off the fence, or stick a magnetic one to a steel fence.

Your fingers can't hold down nearly as well as hold downs, so you will get a better cut as well


----------



## Chipncut (Aug 18, 2006)

*I didn't think Sears still sold these, because of the safety issues.*


----------



## Ger21 (Oct 29, 2009)

*>>You can get severe kick back from them.*

You can get severe kick back with a regular blade. I actually think they're safer, if used properly. Which means using featherboards, both on the side and on top, holding your part down to the table and against the fence. Since you're not cutting through the material, you're chance of kickback is much less than with normal cutting. Same goes for dado blades. Been working in a cabinets shop with 4 table saws for the last 15 years, and have never seen a single case of kickback with a dado blade. I guess it comes down to knowing what you're doing.


----------



## rsmith71 (Jan 26, 2010)

I'm not familiar with all the brands mentioned here but I have the craftsman cutter and do not care for it. However, at work we use the Magic Molder molding head for the table saw. Runs very smooth, quieter than others. The design of it makes it extremely easy to set up and run. Would be my first choice for this type of work on the table saw.


----------



## olddutchman (Aug 17, 2007)

I almost lost a finger about 12 yrs. ago, after the push stick grabbed a knife. Still have them, but don't use them. Found that the router in a table can do so much more, and is mush safer!


----------



## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

I got my first Craftsman molder head about forty years ago. Though I infrequently used it, I considered it a valuable addition to my tool collection. As such, when I rebuilt my shop, I jumped at the chance to acquire another when I found it at a garage sale.

I, primarily, use mine for shaping large stock, like 2x's. Though I have Porter Cable's big boy router and a good table and lift, and limitations of molding head bits aside, it can't begin to compete with my three horse saw and one of these heads, when I have a lot of basic straight line molding work to do.

As noted, a limitation with these is the tool steel bits. Still, I got a lot of miles out of these and light sharpening seemed to push my bit mileage up to tolerable levels. Of course, if I were to do a lot, I'd look at going carbide, even if I had to pay to have the bits machined, which seems not an impossible task, considering the simplicity of the bit design.

Back when I started, I didn't have money for "toys," like hold downs (now I have lots of them - and use them). However, when running large stock past these heads, I seemed to have pretty good control over kick back, even on my three horse Unisaw. I don't think you could convince me to run short stock on this and I'd only run long lightweight stock with hold-downs.

As others noted, as with any shaping blade or bit, you don't want to get carried away with how much stock you're taking off, and listening to the sound will tell you much. You should get a different sound, of course, when you are removing stock (like with a router), but you shouldn't hear chipping of wood sections, or be getting too many hesitations on forward movement. If so, back the head down a bit and plan on another pass.

A note regarding running stock without hold downs and my forty years of sawdust making: Within a year of starting my sawdust making ventures, I quit using push sticks. With rare exceptions, I NEVER use push sticks. They appeared, to me, like an accident waiting to happen. I could never understand why even well known "pro's" insisted on rambling about safety, but shoved chunks of wood through a blade holding down only one square inch of it. Have you ever had a board try to lift due to a dull blade? It didn't start lifting at the back.

Instead of push sticks, I use [somewhat triangular shaped] push boards, made from plywood, Masonite, etc., with a push heel, so I have a lot of area of the stock being held down, and a lot of wood between me and my blade. Too, I try to avoid cute or fancy push sticks, since their very purpose usually means they're going to suffer significant wear with almost each use. However, once I get a design shape I like, I stay with it. Then I make a lot of them, including different widths, with the idea they'll be replaced frequently, or as needed. Of course, if they are tall enough, I can often run the bottom through the band saw to freshen them up for a little extra mileage.


----------



## 8iowa (Feb 7, 2008)

Rich:

Your Shopsmith can easily be set-up with a moulding head. Check out Nick Engler's video instructions;

http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Archives/SS115/SS115_Molder.htm

Molding heads and cutters often "show up" on eBay at modest cost.


----------



## oldworld124 (Mar 2, 2008)

A molder is a machine similar to a planer except it has one or more cutterheads and uses various profiles including straight knife blades. They can be simple such as a Hussey or ShopFox single head and go real elaborate CNC multi head, multi position, horizontal and vertica heads.Such as a Weinig.

A shaper is generally considered a machine that has a vertical spindle with either a fixed or tilt spindle and can be fed by hand or an optional power feeder. They run the gambit from a simple Craftsman to an industrial mahince such as a Martin.


----------



## oldworld124 (Mar 2, 2008)

I usually make a zero clearance plate in the shape of the profile I am using. I mount it on the shaper fence. It makes shaping much safer.


----------



## newbiewoodworker (Aug 29, 2010)

vancra: I seem to have the same approach as you: Push sticks are expendable: If it means running one through the blade, to ensure a safe cut, then Im all for it… I see people in shop class make these elaborate ones… poly and everything… mine I know will be cooked in a few months time…

OP: Shaper cutters on the TS, are definately a little more hazardous… With regualar blades, you have probably 1/8in +/- of surface contacting the workpiece… with a dado, and a cutter, you have almost an inch… And you also have uneven contact, due to the profile. With that said, as with anything, just be sure to use every single safety measure available. Push sticks are a requirement! Featherboards and uni-directional rollers are recommended. Anything to make it a bit more safe.

Has anyone tried making a custom riving knife? Run a blpck through, then trim it to the profile, minus a hair. Then mount it.. Sure its alot of work.. but it could make things a little safer..


----------



## woodgu (Oct 21, 2010)

A friend bought a Craftsman radial arm saw several years ago. It came with a free molding head. He didn't want it and gave it to me. I have used it several times (although not for a while now). It seemed very useful and user friendly. I did use finger boards and push sticks when using them. I also made progressively deeper cuts to reduce kickback.


----------



## Riowood1000 (Jul 29, 2009)

I just use my molding head Cutter on the table saw today. It work well, but you do need to take many cuts and use the proper hold downs and hold ins. The best thing to run cove molding is this cutter from CMT. http://www.cmtutensili.com/show_items.asp?pars=RBSET~800.523~2


----------



## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

I was looking at some picture frames on the site at spuwood's page. He had mentioned that he uses his TS to make molding for the frames. I ask to see some cross sections and he sent me a PM of a blog he did showing me his work.


----------



## Max (Sep 13, 2006)

I have one that my father had. It is an old craftsman set and works very well. I used it to make the walnut pieces on this Picture Frame.


----------



## bubinga (Feb 5, 2011)

I have two ,and have used them several times.
Use,Use,Use, feather boards ,or other ,hold in ,hold downs


----------



## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

I used a molding head once about 50 years ago. We had a Delta Unisaw in our high school wood working shop. I suppose this head was sold by Delta also. I don't remember it cutting very well. It wanted to lift the wood like it was dull but it was't dull so I decided it was the nature of the beast. We were possibly cutting too deep in a single cut. I decided then, that it was a tool that should be used with great caution. I don't think featherboards had been invented yet. We didn't have one in the entire shop. I don't own a molding head and have managed to woodwork without one for all these years. I would try to set up a router if I could. 
SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY


----------



## Steve_RW (Oct 20, 2015)

I am in the process of reworking over 30 pairs of double hung windows to fit new jam liners. I am wondering if a set of custom moulding knives would simplify the process of re-cutting the window stiles but I am concerned about safety. Because I am working on complete windows they are not really easy to guide on more than one side and the bottom.

Currently I have been making a dado cut (0.165" deep x 0.664" wide) in the stile and then routing a 30 chamffer on the sides of the dado like the drawing below.










Does anyone have ideas on a safe and simpler way for me to make these cuts?

Thanks


----------



## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

I've had a Sears moulding head for years, and it's the one that uses only one cutter. It surprisingly does a reasonably good job. You have to take very light passes, and follow up with a lot of sanding. I made a kind of tunnel out of scrap to be clamped over the moulder, and always stayed out of the line of fire. Pretty well eliminated the kickback hazard. The wood couldn't go anywhere but through the "tunnel."

One problem with the Craftsman cutters is they came with a really crude, rough grind profile. They required a lot of careful sharpening to be useful. On the other hand, you can grind your own profile, which I have done on occasion.


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

This is the modern version'






As safe as any woodworking machine.


----------

