# Glue question



## smokie (Dec 29, 2012)

Morning all. Has anyone brushed a bit of water into their mortise and tenon joint prior to applying the glue , Ie:Titebond 3? I've read this will increase the open time of the joint. I've just spent $30 for a bottle of old brown glue and I'd prefer to return it if possible. My glue up is a bit extensive, maybe 1/2 hr tops. 
Thanks.


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## gargey (Apr 11, 2016)

Can you figure out how to do it in parts?

It may work, but it may not. And you'd only find out the hard way…


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

No, I've never used water on wood before glue. That wouldn't be recommended with yellow PVA glue.

I like TBII best, but they do make TBII Extend which is thinner and gives a longer open time. I don't use it much because it's too runny and tends to pour out of joints and make a mess.

I just break my glueups into bite sized chunks.


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

this is a good example of "if you are not sure" of a product or technique,
to experiment and practice on a scrap of the same material with the same products.
experience can often be a very expensive lesson.

.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

If you want to use liquid hide glue, you can make your own for under $3 per pint. Hot hide glue is great for gluing up in stages since it develops a tack in just a few minutes that's strong enough to move on to the next joint. Also, with any hide glue you can use a UV flashlight to see any excess that needs to be cleaned up, and that excess can be cleaned with warm water even weeks or months after it's hardened.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I use white glue for furniture joinery because
of the typical longer open time. You'd have to
check the bottle though.

Formulations vary but you shouldn't have 
a problem finding a pva glue with a 30-minute
open time at a regular hardware store. Glue
color doesn't really mean anything anymore
but certain working properties are associated
with the premium yellow glues like Titebond.
Quick grab and set, ease of sanding, etc.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

For fussy glue-ups I'll use epoxy. Long open time is the key to low stress.

As to adding water, you run the risk of swelling the wood in the joint such that the parts no longer will fit.

Alternative as stated is to do it in steps. Glue up some of the joints and assemble the opposite joints without glue. This gives you the alignment so you can go back and finish the glueing after the first set dries.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Gorilla glue is a polyurethane glue that requires moisture for it to set. You would only need to add moisture to the joint if you live in a very dry climate (low humidity).


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I wouldn't wet your joints for glue ups.

Titebond Extend Glue has a longer open and setting time than regular wood glues specifically for more complex glue ups.

Titebond also has a liquid hide glue that is much cheaper than OBG. Should have similar long open time qualities to the OBG but is cheaper. Nice thing about liquid hide glues is that glue also acts like a lubricant which makes tight joints assemble more easily.

Don't use polyurethane glue unless you want to clean up a mess. Squeeze out is bad enough without having to worry about doubling the problem. Liquid hide glue squeeze out can be cleaned up with water and some scrubbing. Another plus in a long glue up because you don't have to worry about that until assembly is done.


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

I tried polyurethane glue - - once.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Titebond also has a liquid hide glue that is much cheaper than OBG. Should have similar long open time qualities to the OBG but is cheaper. Nice thing about liquid hide glues is that glue also acts like a lubricant which makes tight joints assemble more easily.
> 
> - Lazyman


It's cheaper for a reason. OBG is the standard. However, you can make your own with hide glue granules, water and urea for a fraction of the price of either.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Rather than just saying ithere is a reason it is cheaper, why not provide what you think the reason is. I haven't tried the Titebond LHG, just the OBG. The reviews I've read were all favorable.

I'm not sure I agree that it would be cheaper to make a single batch of LHG yourself. You can buy a bottle of TB LHG for about $8 It will cost a minimum of $10 to buy the hide glue at the cheapest source I've found, plus you'll need to buy urea and a way to prepare, cook and mix the ingredients. Not to meantion the learning curve if you've never used hide glue much less made LHG before.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

OBG is hide glue, urea and water - period. Franklin uses ingredients they don't advertise and it's considered to be an inferior glue to OBG. Can I prove it? Nope.

I don't understand your "single batch" argument. Heck, it's cheaper to buy a cheeseburger at MacDonald's than it is to make one at home given the bag of buns, bottles of condiments, etc. That's why you work in quantity. You can make three pints of liquid hide glue from a pound of glue granules, so that $10 goes a long way.

It sounds like you're not someone who's going to give it the effort. That's OK.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Do you go out of your way to be a jerk or is it just bad manners? Not that it really matters why. Seems to be a common theme with you Rich.

My point was that he needs only one bottle of glue to do THIS glue up. He doesn't need to buy a pound of hide glue another pound of urea and figure out the recipe and any other nuances of making it. If he is just going to use it this one time it is much cheaper to buy one that will work just fine. $8 and done. Also, OBG and Titebond HG has to be used within 18 months or refrigerated so I assume that the stuff you make yourself has the same requirement. 3 pints would be a lot to use in that time frame for most people, especially if it is not the only glue you use.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Do you go out of your way to be a jerk or is it just bad manners? Not that it really matters why. Seems to be a common theme with you Rich.
> 
> - Lazyman


Sometimes it just comes naturally, Nathan.  Looking back, that last sentence was uncalled for and rude. I apologize for that.

You are correct that for many woodworkers, a pint of glue lasts a long time. I'm a huge fan of hide glue, both hot and liquid, and buy the granules in 5 or 6 lb quantities, which lasts me about a year. The granules have an indefinite shelf life and, as you stated, once hydrated it's best stored in the fridge. For the hot glue, I heat it daily, so there's no worry about mold, etc.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Now, getting back to the OP, I completely forgot about mentioning plastic resin glue, like DAP Weldwood. It has a long open time - up to 30 minutes - and is incredibly strong. It's also fairly stain friendly, like hide glue, so if there's any you miss cleaning up, it doesn't stand out as much as PVA glue.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

> I tried polyurethane glue - - once.
> 
> - ArtMann


Like Mitch hedburg said. I used to be a hot tar roofer. I remember that… day.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

Titebond three has a longer set up time. Have you tried that?


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Like Mitch hedburg said. I used to be a hot tar roofer. I remember that… day.
> 
> - TheFridge


I miss Mitch. How about "I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to too."


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## IantheTinker (Jan 19, 2018)

I think I would plant myself firmly in the "glue up in steps" camp, if it's possible to do that is. Otherwise, like John Smith said, test any ideas out on scrap wood of the same kind. Wouldn't want to find anything out the hard way (like I usually do).


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## Sparks500 (Jun 30, 2017)

I used plastic resin glue on a stair rail I built for our house. Nice to work with, but don't over tighten the clamps. I over did it on the first try and the glue up failed. Had to sand the old stuff and re glue. Worked fine the second time.


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