# My ground fault breaker keeps tripping.



## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

I have GFIC circuits wired in my shop and one of the circuits keeps tripping even though nothing is plugged in or running on any of the outlets that is on that circuit. Could this be a faulty GFIC outlet. Do they fail? or should I look for something deeper? When I shut off the main breaker and reset the GFIC outlet, it will immediately trip as soon as I switch on the main breaker.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

You have a short to ground somewhere. It could be the GFI itself, but I've never had one go bad.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

Glad to see you have gfi receptacles in your shop. 
Yes, they DO fail. That is why the new ones have a lock molded into the face. The new ones self test and lock out if they are bad. Breakers also fail. Disconnect wire from breaker, and read hot and neutral to ground if you have a meter. Try breaker with no wire attached. Then reconnect wire and remove gfi and try breaker again. Remove gfi from circut and tie load and line wires together without gfi. See if it holds. If so, replace with new gfi.
One step at a time.


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## Sark (May 31, 2017)

A GFI can fail (has happened to me). And so can a circuit breaker (also happened to me). Also wires can come loose inside a box and cause GFI problems on that branch circuit anywhere in the line. I've also had problems where a wire on the circuit breaker came loose.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Yep. they can go bad and since they are relatively cheap to replace I'd switch it out.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

I would possibly look into using a GFI breaker(s) in the main panel and skipping the outlet style ones. The outlet style gets whacked by lightning all the time and I think the breaker style is a bit more robust. Even though the new ones with arc flash are out I would pass on those. The brushes in motors tend to false trip those often. I had one on my microwave after a kitchen remodel and had to swap it out as soon as the job was finished, it triped almost daily after break in.


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## Knockonit (Nov 5, 2017)

yep, they do go bad , the failure rate of the 15 amp seems to be greater per a study i read awhile back, i changed all mine out to 20amp, since we do a lot of commercial work it seemed fitting, and yep, they go bad more than one would consider
rj in az


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

Stick with gfi receptacles and put the money into a panel mount surge arrestor by square D. Protects the whole shop. And that would be arc fault, not arc flash. Arc flash is an electrical explosion. A very bad thing.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

You are right ibewjon. Sorry, I ment arc fault. Arc flash is well beyond anything a breaker is going to help with.


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## Fresch (Feb 21, 2013)

Any moisture?


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## BuckeyeDennis (Mar 24, 2019)

GFCI outlets often have some standard-type outlets connected downstream. In my house for example, the GFCI outlets next to the bathroom vanities each supply a few outdoor outlets. So outdoor Christmas lights plus wet weather will occasionally trip them.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

I've probably replaced every GFCI in my house over the years due to over sensitivity except for the outside garage door outlet. That thing powers chop saws, grinders, electric fence, etc. and hasn't ever false tripped.

Now I only buy the highest quality units I can find and have switched to GFCI breakers where I could.
It seems to me the cheaper units work, but have limited cycles before they fail (fail-safe at least).


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## EarlS (Dec 21, 2011)

It sounds like the overwhelming consensus is to replace all of the GFCI's in the shop. While you are at it, you might want to take a good look at the wires as well and make sure they aren't a tangled mess in the outlet box just in case a couple of exposed wires are touching.

I had an electric heater that kept tripping the 220V circuit. When I opened up the control box I found that the black wire on the thermostat had burned through the wire insulation in both the black and white wires. The wires were twisted together just a bit close to the terminations.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I too have also had a couple GFCI outlets go bad but I think that they would not reset when they did go bad. Except that last year, I had one almost start a fire. I started smelling burning rubber and when I reached unplug stuff, I realized that the GFCI was really hot but never tripped. When I pulled it out of the wall, it was badly burned and melted. Dodged a bullet.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

I have them fail all the time. I hate the dumb things, but fully understand what they do, and the reason for them. I started buying 20Amps by the box.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

> I have them fail all the time. I hate the dumb things, but fully understand what they do, and the reason for them. I started buying 20Amps by the box.
> 
> - therealSteveN


This is interesting…I have them in shop and no failures in 10 years. Are there some other factors which could cause them to keep failing?


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Redoak, it's only my experience but 10 years isn't long enough. Our house (21 years old) has one that's failing (I think) right now…and I do recall having some others fail well after 10 years in other houses. I'm sure there are other factors that play into this besides age….but in the 3 shops I've had over the last 30 years or so I always put in good quality 20 amp GFCIs and had not had one of them fail. I suspect the quality of the device itself also plays a part in this.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

Like so many things, you get what you pay for. Cheap gfi receptacles are just that. Cheap. I stay with p&s, leviton, Hubbell, and other name brands. Even these even have different quality levels. Home, commercial, industrial, and at the top, hospital grade. A surge arrestor in your panel, also helps to pretext the electronics in the gfi. I have had good luck with the square d panel installed surge arrestors. And all other electronics in the shop, like vfd's, are also protected. There are single phase and three phase versions.


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## doubleDD (Oct 21, 2012)

I had the same experience as this. At first the gfi would pop when using it and after awhile they would be popped without anything plugged in. I was told there is most likely a cut or pin hole or some sort of damage to the wire feeding it. Mine was the main feed to the garage. I replaced that wire and that took care of the problem.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

Two problems with your statement. A nick in the wire feeding TO the gfi will not trip it, only a defect in the load wiring leaving the gfi. And if you changed gfi with no repairs to downstream wiring, there is no problem with the wiring, only with the gfi.


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

I've had them fail repeatedly. One had a freezer plugged into it. Finally electrician put the freezer on separate circuit without ground fault. I have one that I need to replace that's been buzzing/humming for a couple of years. Nothing works on it, so I don't plug anything into that wall's outlets (they are strung together). (I really need to turn off that breaker or replace that thing!) One of mine in the shop I finally got rid of because it seems that they don't like inductive loads. The failed ones didn't always trip. They just seemed to drop considerable voltage somehow and hum or buzz. Maybe they were cheap ones.


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## doubleDD (Oct 21, 2012)

Follow up on my experience with my breakers popping. I forgot the whole garage is on a ground fault breaker.
This was years ago and old age take a toll on my memory.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> I have them fail all the time. I hate the dumb things, but fully understand what they do, and the reason for them. I started buying 20Amps by the box.
> 
> - therealSteveN
> 
> ...


My failures have been on both newly installed, and years old circuits. I initially had a crackpot do the wiring in the shop, lots of issues, but everything has been fixed by a licensed electrician. The panels, and breakers in the shop are Square D QO's, same in the house now too, it had been Siemens. Actually the house has had more failure than the shop, and this drives my electrician crazy. He keeps saying it should be with all the *&%# dust. 

I am NOT an electrician, so I haven't a clue. I just know they are my only electrical PIA.

The electrician says the average life for one is much less than a regular circuit, and probably around 10 years in, it is a good idea to swap them out. I laugh at him, and call him a jerk for trying to drum up business like that. He just shakes his head, and says yeah but….


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

Thanks for all of the replies. The brand is Legrand, made in China, it is 4 years old. It is what the electrician installed when I had my shop built. I'll be replacing it tomorrow or the next day.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

That is normally a quality unit. I have installed hundreds of them on the job. Some do fail earlier than others. Go with an industrial grade replacement. It will cost more, but it's worth it.


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## Mike_in_STL (Dec 8, 2016)

I had to replace the GFCI in my man cave as my 100 watt amateur radio would cause it to trip when I transmitted. Radio wasn't even on that circuit. New GFCI has no problems with RF. So yes, they do go bad, even if there is no huge load on them.


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