# SAW STOPS,



## pete57 (Jan 22, 2009)

The first saw I ever used was an old Rockwell/Delta Unisaw. It was a real 3hp saw and it kind of frighten me. That was the best part!! I was told that if you want to work with wood and use machines you had to be safe or body parts would come up missing and them you would be talking at the Pearly Gates soon after. Never drink and work with wood, never. Never have children in the shop period. Put a light in the ceiling that is run by a switch so someone could make you aware of their presents without being surprised. This brings me to the part that is saying it is Ok to be unsafe and stupid in the workshop.

I have no problem with innovation and progress, but I am not going to purchase a saw that stops and tears a blade all to hell in the blink of an eye and then you have to buy a new blade and component to start the saw back up. My good friend has a Saw Stop contractor saw. It just shut down on its own the other day and he is out a brand new Frued Blade ($116.00) and the component. He has to by a new one and send the other one off to determine if it was his fault or a bad cell. They will never agree to a bad part and so he may get a new component, but they will never give him a new blade. I will agree that the technology be used in schools and places like that, but not down my throat.

I feel that the industry is headed to a no choice on what ever brand saw you buy. They will all have this technology which will drive woodworking machines up and who can afford a $3,500.00 saw (Powermatic 2000) when the time comes? If this component becomes law on tablesaws, how will it affect home shop guys and beginners when minimum wage has not gone up? Everything is going up except money coming in from day to day working???


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## Maverick44spec (Aug 7, 2011)

I don't think they should make it a law for that vere reason. Tablesaw makers such as Powermatic, Delta, Craftsman, Jet, ect. should start making saws with that saftey feature on it but should also keep making the regular, cheaper saws too. That saftey feature is really good, but there are still a few bugs in it that need to be fixed.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Unfortunately communism is alive and well in the US, and people don't even realize when they're legislating in favor of it.

Life is hazardous to your health, and people do stupid things…how do we regulate that?


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## mmax (Dec 9, 2008)

As stated by Will Rogers:

"You can't legislate intelligence and common sense into people"


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## Uncle_Salty (Dec 26, 2009)

Have two Unisaw's in the school shop: A 2001 model with a 50" Biesmeyer, and a 1964 Unisaw with the standard unisaw fence. The old '64 motor finally shot craps this week. It had been overheating and shutting down of late, but it finally cashed it in. The trunion has been cracked and repaired a couple of times, and the arbor bearing has been replaced at least twice in the last 11 years. The ol' girl will most likely get a new home, because when I mentioned it to my Assistant Principal (an old shop teacher), he said he wanted two bids: one to repair the motor and get the ol' girl up to snuff… and one for the Saw Stop PCS with the 52" fence system.

He and I have talked about this day for several years, knowing that the ol' girl would need some major corrective surgery pretty darn soon. He has told me that he didn't think the Administration nor the School Board would have any major hiccups about purchasing the Saw Stop. There are some things about the saw that do worry me. The chance for a "defective trigger" that may smash into the saw blade and trash it. But that is a risk I get to live with. The bigger danger is, of course, the "intentional" trigger, but I think we have that one covered.

You see… My school has security cameras set up just about every where execpt the classrooms (the teachers unions aren't crazy about cameras in the classroom) and the bathrooms/lockerooms (obvious reasons). However, we do have them in the shop, because access to the amount and value of equipment and tools dictates that. Any triggering incident can be observed on the security cameras, and the intent of the operator can be evaluated.

That said, I have seen a live demo of the Saw Stop at a trade show. It is pretty impressively loud. Just like when a band saw blade breaks… everyone within earshop will know about it.

The plan would/will be to use the 2001 model Unisaw for dado's and as a secondary saw, and the Saw Stop as the primary ripping/panel crosscutting station. I have plenty of room, so that is not a major issue.

As the Principal said, after watching the Saw Stop demo on Time Warp, "I don't see how the School District can NOT afford to purchase this at this time."

Like many on this forum, I don't necessarily agree with the politics involved with the merchandising of the Saw Stop. That said, however, the idea, and its implementation, is very solid. No complaint here. It is simply too bad that the other saw makers, who have manufactured great equipment in the past, have not figured out a way to develop some sort of safety device that performs adequately.

The last seven words in any organization: "We've never done it that way before!"


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## pete57 (Jan 22, 2009)

Man this is weird!! Someone agreed with me on this issue. I have a delta contractor saw with the original round bar fence system. Made in America. 24 years old. It is time to replace it soon but it will be used as a panel saw. It has given me many years of joy. I told my beautiful graceful loving and caring and generous, best friend in the world mistress honey bunny wife that it is time to get the new saw. I have given up on looking for a Powermatic 66 and will go with the PM 2000? Thanks everyone.


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## jgreiner (Oct 23, 2010)

I agree that purchasing a Saw Stop is a personal choice, and it shouldn't be mandated. But I also wish more companies had saws with sawstop like technology so it would bring the cost down. I think the reason that sawstops are so expensive is because they can be. In a recent article it in Fine WW they said it would cost $50 to add to a saw. I would love to have a new delta unisaw that had a "sawstop" option for $200 or so.

As for the accidental break, I've read several posts where people had misfires, sent the break in and sawstop confirmed and refunded the cost of the break and blade. I don't know how common that is but it does happen.

-jeremy


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

These discussions are driving me nuts.
BRAKE is a devise that stops something.
BREAK is what you take when you are tired, or what happens to glass when you drop it.


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## Uncle_Salty (Dec 26, 2009)

The Saw Stop arrived and the dealer did the set up last Tuesday.

It is really a decent tool. I was really surprised at the precision of the set up (after I pulled out my mag base dial indicator and did a couple of spot checks). The blade was less than .002 with both the miter slots and the rip fence, and the fence was parallel with the miter slots. The table top was flat and the extensions were nearly perfect dead flush.

An item I am already trying to figure out how to do: The blade guard has a dust collection port on it, but I am not sure I want to put the overarm hanger on the saw for the dust collection tube necessary to make it effective.

BTW, the 2001 model unisaw is now on a portable base and it is still a joy to use. My Principal says I need to get the old equipment disposed of via Craigslist or Ebay. I'll let everyone know the links and the dates when they go on sale. The old unisaw is still a great tool, minus the motor.


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## calicant (Oct 22, 2011)

First they have to convince you that you are the hot dog. Then they show you how safe you will be if you got shoved (slowly) into the blade.

I also thought the hot dogs were fed slowly - until I saw this video

Skip forward to 6 minutes to avoid a lot of sales banter


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I"m a SS fan even though I don't own one. I would rather see a saw blade destroyed than a persons hand. I don't know if they will make it a law to have SS type brakes on all saws but if they do we won't have a choice weather we want to be safe or not. I guess they had these kind of debates before air bags and seat belts in cars were man dated too.


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## Uncle_Salty (Dec 26, 2009)

cr1: I agree with you… to a point: that point is for you, it is a hobby; for me, it is a profession. For you, it is in your own shop; for me, it is in a shop owned by the district and there, the people who pay taxes in that district.

My bosses, and the lawyers, lawfirms, and insurance companies that direct me/us, say, at present, that purchasing a Saw Stop is the prudent thing to possess and use.

But there are other factors, and therefore, facts that support them, that make this purchase equally improbable in this day and age. The mere fact that my program, at a public school, no less, has not been mothballed, or worse, sold off, simply at the demise of an expensive power tool in this day and age is a positive. The fact that the District said buy the Saw Stop, instead of insisting on fixing the "Old Girl," (a mere $2999 for the Saw Stop!) is also testament to the support that my district has in my program and in me.

You can do whatever you wish in your shop and that really doesn't have any bearing on me or my situation and that is great. You can have your opinion and, like the previous sentence, that is also fine with me. This is, afterall, America!

However, the special interests that have taken control of our country and dictate what lights we can buy to seat belts and airbags in our cars to crib railing ballister spacings to the very device used to pop the top on that can of beer you have in your shop have dictated that this is the item that will be in the best interest of the people who use it and therefore, own it.

You probably have complete control of who gets to use your equipment in your shop. That is a luxury I don't have. You can pick who gets to use your equipment and who gets to use it; I don't always and can't always.

Now at home in my own shop… well… that… is a different story, entirely!


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## omextreme (Nov 22, 2011)

Ill throw in my opinion here. I just bought a sawstop, for me I make a living off of my fingers not in the woodworking industry but without all 10 I would be out a career. So for me it was a "why the heck not" reason. I agree that this technology should not be forced on anyone and I "probably" will never need it but to me the off chance the unit fires once a year and eats $200 is worth it. Plus my neighbors are idiots with power tools and always want to use my saw so…..


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

cr1, why don't you design us a blade stop that uses a brake like a lawnmower uses. That could sit behind the blade and be attached to the arbor. We need a triggering device that would trip the brake. It works on lawn mowers so why no table saws? We need someone out there to design a device so there is some competition. We also need something that doesn't destroy half the machine and cause all this grief. Some thing that doesn't shut you down for a month


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## Uncle_Salty (Dec 26, 2009)

cr!: you sound really jaded about this issue… or you have already started drinking those beers you mentioned earlier! Teaching people how to safely use woodworking equipment IS part of the profession I am in; therefore, for me, it IS a profession; MY profession.

I am not sure how you, or anyone else, can make the diabolical assumption that simply because there is an additional safety item installed on any item, that "there'll be people who don't have a lifetime of safe work habits around machinery."

That is like saying that seatbelts and airbags will eliminate traffic fatalities; therefore all drivers will no longer be safe. We know that seatbelts and airbags help save lives.

Same goes for motorcycle helmets, and I live in an "no helmet required" State!

I make my kids wear safety glasses; not because it is the law (in my State, anyway!), but because it is that ounce of protection against the pound of cure.

The purchase of the Saw Stop… or dust collection… or the Binks Spray Booth… or water based lacquers… or ANY other proven advancement that also increases safety and decreases the normal day to day hazards that are inevitable in the woodshop are welcomed.

After 24 years, I've got a pretty good handle on my profession and the safety technologies available to me. I'll take advantage of them when I can.


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

@Grandpa: The main problem I see with designing a new one, is that the original patent application is usually made as broad as possible and any device that does effectively the same thing but functions differently, or by a different mechanism would still be patent infringement.

Whoever attempts to jump into this arena will certainly look forward to years of patent litigation regardless of whether they have a new and novel device or not. It's dissappointing because we could all benefit from innovation in our industry.


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## calicant (Oct 22, 2011)

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

I know about patents and working around them too. I thought cr1 might be able to do that for us and make a better device. I think the trick would be in the detection device. that is going to be the difficult part. A brake might not stop the blade as quickly as the aluminum block jammed into a blade. When I was working everyday I was sent to a class with some patent attorneys. They talked for hours about how to write patents so they covered everything that might ever come up. that was part one. part two was working around patents. Interesting classes.


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## DannyB (Jan 12, 2009)

As a patent lawyer, I can tell you you don't need a working model to patent something. Not even close.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

If the SS safety in the school shop trips often, will the district want to pay to keep a supply of blades and cartridges on hand? Does your shop have a safety monitor? A different student should be appointed during a shop session to oversee safety procedures and that alone. He will learn safety by enforcing it on others and they will also learn safety.


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## woodnewbee (Nov 23, 2009)

Not sure if I should jump in but think it is likely a good thing but remember that you can't fix stupid and you can't protect everyone from everything.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

I'm just about worn out with the SS issue. Now I'll go have a beer with Cr1.
"Don't let the work overload your brain" 
Bill


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## agallant (Jul 1, 2010)

Really? Another SS thread…...


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

As an old coot in his early 60's, I only wonder how we all made it to 2011 without saw stops, blade guards and splitters sitting on the bench, without those plastic blade covers on the return side of the band saw blade that we hate and take off, without router shields, on and on and on…

My first "table saw", if you could even call it that was in 1971. I mounted a circular saw into a bench from the bottom and took off the blade guard. My fence was a 2X4 with extenders that clamped against the edges of the bench. I made coffee tables, end tables, tool boxes, all kinds of things. I wired it into a footpedal!!
Later, I had a four speed pulley router that I also wired into a foot pedal, on the premise that my foot, lightly over the pedal, was way quicker than a hand that might be already getting wound up. Couldn't stop a tool, but it saved me many times when the wood started getting wobbly. Short sleeve shirts, short hair, face shield and good shoes completed my router ensemble.

If you go back far enough, before WWII there were non-clutch belt driven shaft factories where you didn't have a choice, and if a hot dog even got close it was sausage. Men learned to use tools to hold the work so their fingers didn't get caught.

I've never been a fan of those doggone squirrley flourescent light bulbs, and to my amazement, congress just last night put a stay on the elimination of the good old incandescent light bulb. Now we all die of phosporus poisoning since mercury is SO much safer???? Or was that less ozone…I can't remember. All I know is I have one of those in my light by my scroll saw and I have to turn it on 20 minutes in advance to "let it warm up and get bright".

I think what most old timers like me really want to say is, "Where in the heck has all the common sense gone?" If your high school is even lucky enough to have a woodshop, they certainly must have enough safety training to show any child what a spinning carbide bit blade can do to a piece of oak, not to mention a finger. I know mine did.

You can't fix stupid, no matter what. The only way to keep people safe, totally safe, is to not let them do anything. Like it says on the FIRST PAGE of my Kawasaki Motorcycle Owner's Manual: Riding a motorcycle is dangerous - the only way to stay completely safe is to NOT RIDE AT ALL.

So…in the name of common sense:
I keep my blades down when not in use, I keep power tools, including my stationary ones, disconnected or unplugged whenever I am not using them. I use push blocks. I wear safety glasses, although I hate them. I'll take a face shield anyday. Safer in my book and easier on my glasses. Even the air compressor stays unplugged until I need it. Chemicals stay in cabinets, and I have two well guarded large fans overhead for fresh air circulation. 
I also have a coaster on my drill press that holds my one beer I drink when I work at night. Do I drink two? Once or twice a week, usually the second when I am done with major tools and I am down to hand sanding.
I'm 62, and I've had my fair share of sanding off fingertips, cutting myself with carving knifes, and other minor issues that required a band-aid. But by common sense, (will this hurt me if I do this - Duh, Yes), I have all ten fingers, and intend to keep them with common sense.
Common sense…..


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

"You can't fix stupid, no matter what."

Yeah, yeah. Okay.

But I still wear my seat belt, am happy that my car has airbags, and wear a helmet AND Kevlar riding suit, when motorcycling.

Your mileage-as always-may vary ;-)


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Me too on the seat belts and helmet (when I rode MCs). Hey! I never knew about the Kevlar suits.
I also have GFCIs and circuit breakers, a fire extinguisher in the shop. Just can't figure out how to keep my fingers off the grinder when sharpening my lathe tools. Maybe there's some help coming.
Bill


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## rep (Nov 20, 2009)

And yet, with all the common sense and strict safety practices - accidents happen. Is it luck, or attention, or karma, or focus, or what? In my opinion, we are not perfect. Sometimes things happen. Right now, we get to choose whether to try and minimize the damage from some types of accident…or not. There are costs to consider. Right now, we still have a choice. Not sure what choices the future will hold.
I made my choice. Should not really matter to anyone else what I decided - unless you are planning to stop by for some shop time. (you are welcome - just call first ;-)


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Bill:

The brand I wear:

http://www.motoport.com/

Kevlar. Amazing, huh ?

I'm sure-somewhere-people are saying similar things about Kevlar riding suits: that you can't fix stupid.

Sadly, I usually can't HEAR those people-all bundled up, as I am, in my Kevlar suit and full-faced helmet


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## doncutlip (Aug 30, 2008)

Every time you make something idiot proof, they improve the idiot!


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

Well, you have proved the point. When you use available safety devices then you are not stupid. I didn't hear you say you used a guard over your table saw…...?? Some people are just going to put their hands where they don't belong. I try to use push sticks and blocks etc. I often use two push sticks. I can hold the board down with one and push with the other. Still have to watch the blade. 
I don't think we need to be training more gestapo as safety patrol in our school shops though. Those guy become certifiable in the real world. My plant had a tall door that parted in the center. For humans to enter it has a special button you pushed and it only opened about 3 feet wide and it automatically closed after some time like 15 seconds. Our company photographer was going out to take photos of some equipment. He punched the man door button. It opened. He collected all his camera cases and had to turn sideways to exit. the door close on him before he could get through it and it nearly suffocated him. He got someones attention and they got the door open. The safety man arrived and instead of wanting to know what happened and how they should prevent this from happening, he wanted the photographer to pee in the bottle to make sure he wasn't on drugs. That is all safety people are good for in the real world. Hold a bottle while someone pees in it!


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

That's well said, Grandpa. 
And I do wear seatbelts, not because I can't drive and stay at the speed limit, but it seems like there are more and more people who cannot, due to food, phones, radios, cigarettes, whatever. My neighbor totaled his van recently while driving home when he went to reach for a cigarette. Looked down for three seconds and found himself in a field. Oookkkaaayyyy….
I wear a helmet, strong levis and leather boots and jacket when I ride for the same reason, and common sense tells me I am on only two wheels. I don't do the kevlar thing. Have seen them, knew a couple people who did, and it's a great choice. Just not for me.
And no, I don't have a guard on my tablesaw. Also know enough not to stand in the line of fire, should a piece come back out the wrong way. I do use pushblocks on my table saw, my jointer, and sometimes when resawing on my bandsaw. That's common sense again.


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## jmos (Nov 30, 2011)

What really confuses me about the court case that sparked this potential rule change is why the company that hired the guy, trained him poorly, and provided equipment without the manufacturer supplied safety equipment, isn't the one on the hook for the liability? (Well, I do know the answer, they didn't have deep pockets, but…) Even if this rule change goes through does anyone really think the companies that are already providing unsafe saws on the job won't disable the new brake systems to prevent paying for blades and components?

Having said that, while I do not have a Sawstop, if the actual cost per unit can be driven down to $50/saw wholesale, I think the regulation would be justified. I understand folks saying they don't need it, but don't fool yourself that only those that have poor safety habits are the only ones that get injured. Accidents do happen, even to seasoned veterans. In twenty years in oil refining I've seen all kinds of accidents happen to experienced and inexperienced alike.

While we like to say 'it's my choice,' medical costs are shared by society; many regulations save lives and suffering, as well as money for the medical system.


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

As far as forcing manufacturers to install them..mandating all saws should have this technology….I dont agree with that. I do however think it is a good system, and although it will never replace safe operating practices, it is nice to have lurking in the background for a just in case moment. I have seen dozens of Saw Stop discussions on here and there are always the slew of guys that say I been using a table saw for x many years, blah blah…experience counts without a doubt, but accidents are just that. You don't expect that piece of wood to move, or pinch, or shift..but it does…and all your experience isn't going to stop that blade from damaging you. It should remain a personal choice if you want to buy Saw Stop or not. I have a sweet 2001 Delta Unisaw with a 50" Beis…I love it…but if I had the money I would sell it and get a Saw Stop. They really are a well made saw, and I think I would like the extra safety lurking in the background.


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## IrreverentJack (Aug 13, 2010)

John, A lot went on before Osorio/Ryobi . Here is some of the history. I think the reason we haven't heard much about the employer is that he is a small player in this drama. The manufacturers, product liability attorneys and insurance companies have the biggest parts. The data the CPSC collected , since Gass's petition in 2003, has gotten even more compelling and the arguments against it less so. *My guess* is that the flesh sensing standard will be implemented and the CPSC will arbitrate/negotiate terms allowing other manufacturers to use SawStop patents. Then Bosch will quickly start selling a saw with its (rumored) improved design that does not hurt the blade. -Jack

*IMO*- The cat's out of the bag as to the cost of this type of accident. If the standards don't change (maybe even if they do), the insurance industry will start charging a higher premium for saw users. $50-$200 extra for a new table saw (Ryobi didn't say it would be more in Osorio/Ryobi) might be a bargain if it keeps us from paying higher insurance rates.


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## jmos (Nov 30, 2011)

Jack, I'm no lawyer, but it sounds like you might be. Serious question; If Osario v Ryobi determined Royobi was liable since they had not implemented this safety technology and should have, shouldn't all the manufacturers be recalling all the saws sold in the last few years as defective? Won't every accident from now on mean a judgement against the manufacturer? It seems like they should be running to limit their liability.


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## IrreverentJack (Aug 13, 2010)

John, *I'm not a lawyer,* I just read a lot. Serious answer; trying not to sound like a lawyer - a lot of people are squeezing their cheeks together really hard over this. The manufacturers could have implemented the flesh sensing technology but gambled that it would be cheaper to fight the lawsuits. Gass ruined their scheme by manufacturing SawStop himself, proving his claims and discrediting his detractors. The Osorio/Ryobi suit was probably only the first of many and *IMO* was chosen by the insurance/trial lawyers because the "victim" was so unbelievably stupid. All the cases that follow should be slam dunks. Interesting times for the power tool manufacturers. -Jack


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

I would also get a Sawstop if I had the money. Or maybe I would wait a little longer and see what the others provide when the courts determine we must be protected from ourselves. I will be the first to tell you I have known many tradesmen that have worked a full career and injured themselves after retirement. I don't think it is being careless from not using the saw or tool daily. I think it is because our mental abilities slow as we age and we just don't see things soon enough. As I enter the medicare group in the next month I fit into that group I am afraid. I wear seat belts, have air bags, wore a helmet when I rode bikes, I don't stand under trees during lightening storms etc. Just common sense. So why don't I have a Sawstop now? I think it is largely due to an attitude that was displayed in the Ryobi case. I am hoping some manufacturer comes up with a good device that does not destroy many expensive parts in the process of saving a few limbs. If not we will have to use what is available I suppose. 
Interestingly enough I knew one man that worked in a machine shop for years, He had a missing finger or about half of it was missing. I inquired about it knowing it happened in a machine shop accident. Nope, I cut it off on the table saw at home. I knew another man that worked as a carpenter for 50 years. He had a full cabinet shop. He was with his grandchildren in his shop after retirement. He pushed a board through the jointer with no push-block. He planed the heel of his hand off. Another man worked in a machine shop for 43 years. He retired and was in his garage/shop at home. He was holding a block of wood in his left hand and operating a power drill with his right hand. You guessed it. He drilled through the wood and almost through his hand. How many rules did he break and why did he do it? He asked himself the same questions. I still think we slow down in the thought process dept. Then if we are distracted it is compounded. I would like to think we can all take a pill and become immune to certain things but I am afraid that is a dream.


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## benchbuilder (Sep 10, 2011)

I know a man who was using his table saw to cut up some scrap in his shop, the mistake he made was wearing gloves, the glove and his hand was pulled into the blade. It cut down the center of his hand before he could pull his hand away, but the glove caught again as he pulled away and it cut his hand again in the width as an X. He didn't loose his hand but after many operations, lots of pain and loss of a finger plus not having much use of the hand ever again was enough to almost make me not go into my shop again. But I did and with a new RESPECT of my tools and for thoses who build anything that protects me. The saw that cut my friend set for many years with blood stains on it in a dark shop until his death several years later and was sold along with the house. The saw wasn't to blame, but what it did changed my friend for ever. Just something to think about.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

I can be frightening but like life it goes on. A friend was helping me in high school. He got cut up on the table saw but nothing serious. That was 47 years ago but it is with me just like it happened yesterday. I just get everything in order and try to be careful. I taught adults in a night class at our local technical school some years ago. They always scared me. They would be half way through a rip and start looking for their push stick. I had to watch them more that you would watch young people.


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## JollyGreen67 (Nov 1, 2010)

Has anybody looked at www.whirlwindtool.com ? They have the answer but, the patent office is so far behind, because the Congress keeps stealing money from them for their own purposes. I looked at the SS web site and all the hot dogs had nicks in them. True, you would not loose a whole finger, only part of it, while the Whirlwind stopped the blade prior to any fingers, or hot dogs, from being any where near the blade. For my money, and the wait, I'll take the Whirlwind. It is also, unlike the SS, a retrofit to any tool with a blade.


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## IrreverentJack (Aug 13, 2010)

If you use a blade guard the Whirlwind might be effective even though it reacts *much slower* than SS. The data says only 31% of blade contact TS injuries occur while a guard is in use. That means Whirlwind won't/can't address 69% of blade contact injuries. *If* the $50-$200 number is correct and improved flesh sensing designs come out that don't damage the blade, Whirlwind will be more expensive and less effective.


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## JollyGreen67 (Nov 1, 2010)

I do use the blade guard. Sure it gets in my way - but - I also have all my fingers, without nicks as the SS would provide. The hot dog proved it. For me, the Whirlwind is a much better deal.


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## JollyGreen67 (Nov 1, 2010)

After much deep thought - I ask myself, "Self, why is not your grey matter synapses clicking on more then one cylinder"? I studied the Whirlwind thingee again, in great depth. How is this thing going to work with a jig, of which we all use at one time or another? Ok, ok, I admit I do remove the guard at that time. When the removal takes place, how is the Whirlwind going to protect anything ? I concede to the experts and SS. Believe I'll send an email to Whirlwind, and see what they say.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Jim: now THAT was a MIGHTY impressive 180 

Others will follow. Who knows with what technology, when, and for how much $$$, but … they will.


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## JollyGreen67 (Nov 1, 2010)

A humbalizing (?) experience of a synaptic reconnection is always the best approach. Maybe I'll get a response, or not, from Whirlwind. ) Haven't yet from previous emails. :-((


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

So you are saying that 69% of the injuries occur with no blade guards in place. I understand why but if you don't want to wear a seat belt, crash helmet, safety toe boots, safety glasses, dust collector/air filter, then you probably won't use a guard even with the safety system built into it? Is that what you are saying? Perhaps you are saying we use all the other stuff and throw caution to the wind when it comes to a blade guard. Actually we do exactly that. I use all the other stuff mentioned but I don't use a blade guard on my table saw. With that said I probably wouldn't invest in on of those guards. I have several unused guards hanging on the wall now. So I and only I could prevent 69% of the blade contact accidents on my saw. hhhhmmmmm I could prevent the other 31% of the blade contact accidents on my table saw by investing in a Whirlwind guard. That alone is pretty impressive to me. Am I reading this correctly.


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## IrreverentJack (Aug 13, 2010)

*Of the 66,900 emergency room-treated injuries involving table saw operator blade contact in 2007 and 2008, approximately 20,700 (30.9%) of the injuries occurred on table saws where a blade guard was in use. Approximately 44,500 (66.5%) of the injuries occurred on table saws that did not have a blade guard attached.*

Grandpa, ^Ooops! It's 66.5% not 69%. I was thinking 100 - 31 . I *guess* over 2% of the people hurt on table saws don't know what a blade guard is or they were never asked if it was on. I was trying to use the data to point out that for most TS blade contact injuries the Whirlwind guard would not help because people (you and me) don't use a guard. -Jack


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## cloakie1 (May 29, 2011)

Tennessee is right on the money..i think you can go way overboard on the safty stuff….and having a gadjet the completely self destructs in the name of a hotdog is completely nuts IMO. whenevery i get a new tool or machine the first thing i do is take off all the safety gear….the machines just dont work as well with all that stuff hanging on to them and secondly if we trust all the saftey gear on these machines then we breed complacency and that is a helluva lot more dangerous than a single beer on a coaster in the workshop.most of what i do the safety gear is in the way and takes away the view of the cutter or blades. there is a time for such gear…eg power feeds etc and i always wear eye and ear protection….and my seat belt in the car and lifejacket on the boat,if the machine bites me then it is my own fault and i've only been bitten once in 25 years(touch wood). common sense is no longer taught these days and that is a shame!!lets teach our kids our to be safe,how to work safe and not to rely on safety products that just might not work on the day it really needs too.
i expect i'll cope a bit of flak from some of these comments cos i usually do but i figure as said above that one minor incident in 25 years probably speaks for itself.


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