# Plea for help - mortise in 4x4



## rmh09 (Jan 14, 2011)

I am attempting to build a fairly basic work bench. The top is glu-lam 5 1/4" thick x 6.5' long by 22" wide (heavy). For the base I wanted to try thru tenons using 4×4's. This is a long sad tale full of opportunity to learn from many iterations. I will spare you most of them. I first used a drill press with a 1/2" auger bit to hog out the mortise. There was too much clean up left and the moritise looked unusable unless I wanted to spend hours cleaning it up with chisels. I then went to two holes with the bit and then used a jig saw. Again, not usuable. Then, I went to two holes, jig saw out the waste and THEN use a long straight router bit = 2 1/2", (flipping the leg to get the 3 1/2" depth). I made a jig for the router using a bushing to keep it within bounds. Nothing seems to get me to a decent mortise. Even after using an ocsillating spindle sander to smooth out the sides, the mortise is down right ugly! I could attach the legs and stretchers with metal brackets but I want to try to figure out if a good square mortise (maybe with rounded corners) is possible. Any help would greatly be appreciated. Thanks!!


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## CRAIGCLICK (Mar 14, 2018)

I, too suck at mortises..but practice helps a lot. Using scrap soft pine and then moving your way up to harder woods, spend a lot of time on your chisel work and it will pay off.

Use a good straight piece of wood as a guide (place it at the edge of the mortise once you drill it out and use it as a guide for your chisel when paring down the sides and corners….that helped me a lot.

Your other alternative is to find a used mortising machine. I purchased one (a Jet JBM-5) from a fellow Lumberjocks member for 150 bucks and it is TOTALLY worth the money in time saved.

Of course, given the time, I'd rather do them by hand…it helps me "connect" to the project…but when you need to do something right now, the mortising machine certainly is a godsend.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Do you have a band saw? Cut a saddle in the post and glue a block in place.








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## rmh09 (Jan 14, 2011)

Thanks AlaskaGuy! I may have to do it your way. The 4×4 is just too thick at 3 1/2" for to get straight sides any other way.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Thanks AlaskaGuy! I may have to do it your way. The 4×4 is just too thick at 3 1/2" for to get straight sides any other way.
> 
> - rmh09


I guess you know the first thing you should do is make sure all 4 of your post/leg are square. Start at the jointer and square them up. It will save you grief later when you assemble everything.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

It won't take hours to clean it out with chisels. Unless you have a mortiser or use a router you'll have to clean it out by hand anyway. The inside of the mortise may be serviceable off the bandsaw but you'll still need to clean it out with chisels.


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## Rayne (Mar 9, 2014)

> Thanks AlaskaGuy! I may have to do it your way. The 4×4 is just too thick at 3 1/2" for to get straight sides any other way.
> 
> - rmh09


Another way is to take 2 - 2×4's and cut the appropriate dado's in each side and glue it together as one.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Thanks AlaskaGuy! I may have to do it your way. The 4×4 is just too thick at 3 1/2" for to get straight sides any other way.
> 
> - rmh09
> 
> ...


You can also build up the leg using 3 pieces of wood, omitting the area were you want the mortise.


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## BFamous (Jan 26, 2018)

One thing to note, the inside of your mortises don't need to be pretty… 
Personally, I prefer to use a good sharp chisel after hogging out the meat. If the chisel isn't razor sharp, you'll be crushing g the wood fibers instead of cutting them. I like to use a chisel the width of the narrowest side of my mortise, it means I can clean up at least two of the sides of the mortise in one pass from each side of the board. The only thing you need to be certain of is that you mortise sides are square to each other and either square or parallel to the side of the board - you don't want your mortises to be crooked. And that's easy enough to do using a marking gauge, but you want to ensure you're right on those marks

Also remember, practice makes (closer to) perfect.


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## rmh09 (Jan 14, 2011)

This is some very good advice. I don't think I would have as much of a problem with the mortise if it was normal sized (1 or 1 1/2" thick). This is HD pine 4×4, the mortise measures 2" x3". Soft wood that "should" be easy to tame, just not by me. Every one that have attempted has been very wonky. Not straight, wavy, and rough on the inside. I will try another method. I really appreciate your help!


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

I use a 2"x2"x2" square of ebony to register my chisels at 90deg. Not so much anymore but this method worked on my 2-3/4" benchtop.


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

why not go bridal joint? I am currently slogging through 4"x6" for legs & stretchers for my joinery bench.


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## MrWolfe (Jan 23, 2018)

Rayne's suggestion works well. You can cut the waste out of each half of the mortise on a table saw with a dado set if you have one. Its easy enough to clamp or tape the two halves of the leg together side by side and run them through your saw on a sacrificial fence attached to your miter gauge. This will make the dados on the two halves exactly the same dimension. Make a plug out of scrap 2×4 that is the size of the tenon and wrap it with packaging tape. You can then glue the two halves of the leg together around the plug/tenon and get really tight alignment. The packaging tape will not stick to the glue and you can knock the plug out with a mallet after the glue sets. 
Hope that helps.

A good set of mortise chisels would be great too.


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## jimintx (Jan 23, 2014)

This video from Paul Sellers helped me understand the best use of chisels for making a mortise. I recommend it.


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## MikeB_UK (Jul 27, 2015)

I did my first mortises on for my bench as well.
Clean up with chisels seems like it will take an age but gets faster as you get the hang of it..

First one took about 3 hours
Last one took 20 Minutes

Clean up half from one side and half from the other, so you only need to get 1 3/4" square at any one time.


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## chrisirving (Mar 21, 2017)

I did Maloof joints because I wanted the legs to be flush with the sides for a leg vise…and they look good . They were fairly easy to cut and fit


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

As Bfamous said: "the inside of your mortises don't need to be pretty… "

I used the Paul Sellers method as pointed to by Jmintx here above.

The two faces where you chop the mortises must be parallel and perpendicular to one of the adjacent face which serve as a reference.

I used a squared blog to guide my chisel (after I experimented two half mortises not meeting correctly in the middle. I nevertheless used it without problem [ it really doesn't need to be perfect ] and nobody can see it now it is glued.)










For mortises for thick tenon, see this . See picture 2 & 3, it is self explanatory.

Making a workbench is the opportunity to learn from mistakes and acquiring/honing skills.

For fine work, Paul Sellers shows a method for precision although IMHO this is overkill for a workbench.


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## rmh09 (Jan 14, 2011)

That is a gorgeous bench Chris! Thank you everyone for your help! The two leading contenders are; one- buck up spend the time to clean out with chisels. Or two, use a bridal joint. The only good thing so far is that I am only mangling HD pine and not better wood. ☺


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## RobHannon (Dec 12, 2016)

Im curious to see the bench when you are done. Please post pictures.


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## jimintx (Jan 23, 2014)

Have fun with it, rmh09 !! And - what is "HD pine"?

thanks


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## PCDub (Sep 24, 2017)

"*H*ome *D*epot"??


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## jimintx (Jan 23, 2014)

AH, oh, I never thought of designating wood as Home Depot, but now, I get it, if that is the correct meaning.


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## rmh09 (Jan 14, 2011)

Yes, HD = Home Depot. Just trying to say that it's not special wood. I was pretty frustrated when I started this thread, now I have several good ways to get this done. Thanks again all!!


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

Fast growing (humid ?) Pine with its alternance of soft and hard growing rings might be more frustrating then fine grain hardwood.
It needs really sharp chisels. Otherwise, the wood compresses under the chisel and the alternating soft and hard rings make it crumble.
But, again, inside of mortises don't need to be perfect. Aim for snug fit and not visible gap.


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## NeophyteGrant (Jan 2, 2017)

Use a marking knife or gauge to scribe both sides of the stock. Whichever method you use flip the stock instead of going through (or use a backer board) to avoid blowout.

Sharp chisels and a set-up block or something (although I don't find them necessary) to register the chisel square and you can pare the walls pretty quick and easy. If you cut lines you can register the chisel on the walls easily. Knife, knife, knife your joinery.

Also, if the walls are thicker and have more waste to get rid of after drilling or routing or whatever you can use a mortise chisel with a mallet.

You'll get it. No worries. Just practice.


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## NeophyteGrant (Jan 2, 2017)

Also softwood is tougher to make nice mortises in.


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## rmh09 (Jan 14, 2011)

I think that soft wood and dull chisels are the biggest reasons that I have had problems (plus user error). I will spend some quality time sharpening, or give up and try bridal joints. Thanks again!


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## CRAIGCLICK (Mar 14, 2018)

> I think that soft wood and dull chisels are the biggest reasons that I have had problems (plus user error). I will spend some quality time sharpening, or give up and try bridal joints. Thanks again!
> 
> - rmh09


Yesterday, I made a practice mortise in a piece of home depot 2×4 using a cheapo Harbor Freight chisel that I had sharpened per the paul sellers chisel sharpening video on a cheap dual-grit watersone.

It cut a beautiful, clean mortise in no time flat…I mean, about 5 or 6 minutes…and the sides baaarely needed cleaning up.


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## NeophyteGrant (Jan 2, 2017)

I may be sick in the head, but I really enjoy making square holes in pieces of wood. And the cool thing is I feel I can do one offs and different size ones faster than setting up a plunge router or some other methods.

Plus the big English style mortises really penetrate deep in few strokes. Once you get the flow of it and master levering to not bruise the ends, you can refine this skill very rapidly. And again: kniving the edges, and even paring them down so that you have a recessed square to begin chiseling into, can make this even more foolproof.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> I may be sick in the head, but I really enjoy making square holes in pieces of wood. And the cool thing is I feel I can do one offs and different size ones faster than setting up a plunge router or some other methods.
> 
> Plus the big English style mortises really penetrate deep in few strokes. Once you get the flow of it and master levering to not bruise the ends, you can refine this skill very rapidly. And again: kniving the edges, and even paring them down so that you have a recessed square to begin chiseling into, can make this even more foolproof.
> 
> - NeophyteGrant


Me being a power tool kind of guy could you explain the different kinds of mortise chisels. And, when doing it by hand what do you use for big mortises….... 1" and 1/2 wide and 3" long?

As a side note I do wish I knew more about how to use hand tools.


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## NeophyteGrant (Jan 2, 2017)

I'd use a 1/2 inch of these guys: https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/item/MS-MORT.XX/English_Mortise_Chisels_by_Ray_Iles

Ray Illes is the only one I know of doing these big, so-called "pig sticker" chisels with the bolstered handles that are like chicken drumsticks with D2 steel on the end. If you're mortise has any sort of depth to it, this is the heavy artillery of the bunch. They have a primary bevel of 20 degrees with a smaller secondary bevel of 35 degrees for strength. The smaller primary bevel allows them to drive deeper per blow with the mallet.

The other two types are light and medium sash mortise chisels, called that because they were/are used for sashes in windows. You can see how they're lighter duty: https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/mortise-chisels/mortise-chisels-1-10?node=4174 These are what most makers sell now.

Generally 1/2" is the largest size you'll find. So you'd start in the middle, take one pound, inch forward and take another then lever, to create a notch. Then inch forward and pound hard and you create a slope and opening that each move forward and successive malleting series drives deeper. (see pic) With the big chisel and a 24 oz mallet you can get to an inch and half realllly quick. For a through you'd do 1.75 inches or such and then flip over and do the other side to handle the 4×4. The toughest part is doing width, I'd say. You just have to move over and do another line a couple times to get to 1.5" wide with the 1/2 chisel. It's surprisingly fast though once you get good at it. And then it's cool to look at a nicely formed square. I'm still starting out and I can produce mortises better than many other joinery elements-which is sort of odd.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Very interesting. Thanks for taking the time to post this.


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

AlaskaGuy,
for wide mortises, one method is doing two mortises each about 5/16" up to 1/2" wide on each side of the mortise to be done and then chopping out the waste between them.
see self explanatory pictures here.


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