# It is Just Plain Hard to Make a Buck!



## andy6601 (Aug 23, 2011)

I just wanted to hop on my soap box for just a minute, and say it is just plain hard to make a buck! I do not care what industry you work in it is just hard to make money as a business. Now, first let me say I am not in the wood working industry I am in the electrical industry and it is flat out stupid! I do wood working as a hobby and like everyone romantised about how great it would be to do this for a living and so on, but the truth of the matter is that once you start to do ANYTHING for money or compensation it takes it to a different level. 
If you take a commission you can not work on it on and off for a year. Your client, well they will not be your client for long, will not have it. What happens is it does become a job and like any job it has to be done and requires extra effort and energy that goes above and beyond the hobby level. Even if you are building something for a friend and they are paying for any portion of the project, they have just become your client, customer, or what have you and you now have a reputation to uphold like it or not. You have just brought your wood working to a new level, that being said this is the best way to find out if this is something that you would want to pursue further or decide it is not worth the headache. 
Please do not misunderstand I am not trying to rip anyone's dreams to pieces and I will never say not to take the leap of starting a business, but most business owners I have talked always say do notnget in to this business do x,y, or z, the truth is there is no bullet proof business model out there and anyone who promises you that there is, is lying, so walk away slowly and keep your hand over your wallet! 
I have done some wood working for money and have enjoyed it a lot, however it is a headache to have deal with people, and I deal with people at my day job, contractors beating me up on price, deadlines, staying compliant with permits etc. It is a real pain in the rear. Wood working for profit is no different, and has problems just like any other business has, I believe that is just the business world.
Again I am not trying to discourage anyone from selling their wares, I just want people to realize it is DAMN hard, and please ask for advice, but sometimes it seems like people just ask the same questions over and over again and the poor folks that do this for a living would have to getting tired of answering the same questions over and over. 
I am not a professional woodworker I am in the electric business, but there are a lot of simularties that I believe are universal in running a business. I just want folks to really think about it before taking it to the next level. I hope I did not turn anyone off by this but please understand it is hard, but not impossible and it takes a lot of work to sell stuff, sometimes more work than building what you are trying to sell. I welcome any comments as I hope I made my point and if anyone has any further insight to contribute to what I have tried ot say.
Thanks,
Andy


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## happy_budah (Jan 1, 2008)

you are so right a job is a job! WORK….... just another 4 letter word!!!!!


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

There are a lot of ducks to get in rows to make real money in any business:
production, efficiency, outsourcing, competitive advantage, marketing and
so forth. It can be done, and the complexities of these processes are 
part of the reason for business school degrees - business is detail oriented
and the way you make money has much less to do with producing a 
good end product than most beginners realize. The harsh reality is that
with savvy in other crucial areas, it is possible to do well in business with
a not-so-fabulous product that is well-packaged. Custom woodworking is
tricky to package in today's commoditized marketplace. Artists at least have
their unique aesthetic but woodworkers are, accurately, usually perceived
not as artists but as competitive creators of commodity.


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## danr (Sep 5, 2009)

Interesting comments. I have thought about starting my own business many many times but never really got close. It is more of a fantasy for me I guess. I have never done woodworking for money (just for charity) and the charity stuff was ok and I was glad to do it. As far as a business in wood working is concerned I guess I have kind of decided that I will only try it if/when I retire from my real job (and hopfully will not NEED the income). In the mean time I will enjoy wood working as a hobby. I admire, very much the small business owners/operators in any field.

It is my opinion that in order t make it in the wood working business these days you would be better off having somthing unique and somwhat artistic that caters to the wealthy. Mass produced furniture and cabinets are so available today that are of reasonable quality and price. This makes it tough from a small business perspective. Good luck to all those who try. Some will be sucessful. Keep trying.


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## andy6601 (Aug 23, 2011)

I guess where I am trying to go with this is, business is business and like Loren said marketing has a lot to do with it. Marketing is not wood working, nor is networking, accounting all this other junk that is needed to be a business. I feel that sometimes folks keep asking the same questions on this topic hoping for a different answer. I will use this example, we all know how to lose weight, eat right and excersize, but yet how many diet fads come and go and pills? The only thing that gets lighter are the people's wallet! I have done other things too; small engine repair, handyman work, woodworking, electric and one thing I have found is it is not so much what you do, it is how you do it (if that makes any sense). Doing the acutal thing that you are being paid to do is the easy part! It is everything else that take so much darn work, finding leads, coridinating with the customer, price issues and listening to customer's life stories and all that drama (some of you know what I am talking about) Things that have absolutly nothing to do with what you are being paid for, I for one enjoy it but did not realize how involed it can get when I first started out.


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

*" It is everything else that take so much darn work, finding leads, coridinating with the customer, price issues and listening to customer's …....."*

Those are what makes a hobby into a business. You can't think of the shop time being the only thing that "you're paid to do." As soon as you go into business, all of the activities involved in establishing, growing, and maintaining the business become things that "you're paid to do."


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

My family has been self employed for three generations. Each generation started their OWN business, it wasn't passed on. My grandfather started a well drilling business. My father started a locksmith business. I started a residential service business. We've all had very little problem making a living.* IT CAN BE DONE!*

I think it comes down to motivation and creativity. For example, I was motivated by my desire to work on my own terms, not punching a clock for somebody else. If I get lazy, I need only remind myself that I have to keep going or else I'll end up bagging groceries for someone else. If I want to maintain my freedom, I have to work for it.

The creativity comes in when you have to deal with competition. You have to come up with new ways to make money, and that sometimes opens up whole new avenues for you. For example, after 15 years running my business I decided it wasn't enough to make money working for myself anymore. I wanted to truly enjoy what I was doing for a living. So I looked at my hobbies and figured out how I could make money doing that. Long story short, every year I spend less and less time at my old business and more time doing what I enjoy for a living. In fact, 80% of my income is now generated from things related to my hobbies.

Add to it the fact that I live in Michigan, which has been in a single state recession for more than a decade. Yet I still make it work. Not because I'm some business guru… I can do it because I don't buy into the "it's too hard" crap.


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

I retired at 59 and could not have done so had I not spent the previous 17 years self employed. I kicked myself often for not making the leap sooner.
I was never without a customer base and each year brought greater financial rewards and personal freedom than the previous one. 
However, my business was a service and did not produce a tangible product. Also, no shop space or employees were necessary. My equipment costs were minimal compared to my present shop and machinery budget. Which, if one were in a cabinet or furniture business, would not be adequate.
I did spend an ungodly number hours/days and lots of $$ traveling in order to sell and provide the contracted services. 
There is a whole lot to be said in favor self employment. It may not be for everyone, but for those who can weather the storm, it's great!


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## LeeBarker (Aug 6, 2010)

Good discussion; thank you, Andy, for throwing the first pitch.

One of Andy's points seems to be that going into business for yourself is hard. Granted.

My caution is that we not then assume that the alternative-working for someone else-is easy.

I have lots of admiration for those who have chosen a career, grown in it, and stayed.

Similarly for those who have done this, done that, done something else.

All three choices require this for success: Show up, look your best, do your best, and be grateful.

I'm anxious to read more on this topic…

Kindly,

Lee


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## andy6601 (Aug 23, 2011)

Working for the "man" is just as hard, really that is what I am getting at is life is hard, if you expect things to be handed to you then you are in sad shape. Again I am not trying to discourage anyone from making a leap into a business. You never know it is for you until you try, I have been comming to lumber jocks for a while this is by far my most favorite forum topic to read. It seems that every month someone posts "I want to make money making sawdust, I made a bird house and I want to sell it for $500.00 what do you think?"(for those who make bird houses I mean no disrespect) I honestly think they feel that someone is going to say here is the magic formula that you need to use to be come rich making sawdust and working 10 hours a week…..come on! The folks that have put in their blood sweat and tears and had hard won the lessons of business I can not think are just going spill it all out there, really until you yourself are in the postion to learn those hard lessons I don't think really you can explain it to someone who has never been in that spot.

Maybe I am getting ahead of myself or to far out there but this forum is great, but like anything you have to pay your dues and nothing easy is ever worth while. Maybe it is a sign of the times we live in of instant everything and "I can buy it cheaper than I can make it" and on and on. I believe that people can make it in business, it is that so many look at thru rose colored glasses. Like Stumpynubs said enough excuses.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I have no problem with helping people understand that they have to work hard to run their own business.* But the vast majority of times a person says he is considering becoming self employed he gets a bunch of responses from people thinking they need to give him a reality check. *They go on and on about how many hours they put in, how many lean years they've endured, how complicated the process is.

*My attitude is, if someone REALLY needs to be told all that, they're probably not intelligent enough to run a business anyway! *

I believe that the people who come on this and other forums to talk about "taking the plunge" didn't just wake up this morning and decide to quit their jobs. No, they've been thinking about it for a long time, and in the course of those thoughts it has certainally occured to them that being self employed isn't about sitting on your butt and cashing checks. They KNOW it's complicated, they KNOW it's hard work and they're looking for ENCOURAGEMENT, not reality checks. *They want to know how you achieved your successes, not how you've been scarred by your failures.*

When someone comes to me and says he wants to start his own business, (I have helped several people start businesses) I don't start laying on all the negatives. I ask what they plan to do or sell, what are their goals, what books have they read, which industry insiders have they talked to. Then I suggest they look into some of the things that I found helpful, talk to the people who helped me, etc. If in the course of that conversation I find out that they're expectations are unrealistic, THEN I might consider a reality check. What I DON'T do is automatically assume they're anything less than fully capable of making their dreams into reality or that they are unaware of the hard work ahead of them.

How many of you self employed out there would never have done it if every time they brought it up all you got was a bunch of people moaning about how hard it was. What if nobody tried to encourage you to follow your dreams?


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## andy6601 (Aug 23, 2011)

Have I not said through the entire thread that I am *NOT* discouraging anyone from starting a business. My main focus is on the fact that once you are in business wood working is just a small portion of what you do. But like any decision there are pros and cons that need to weighed and at that point one can make a decision. 
I have to disagree, I hate to say but I feel there are a lot of people out there who don't have a clue as to how to run a business or what it entails, I am no means an expert on businesses but there is a big difference from selling a piece now and then being a legit business dealing with all of the legalize taxes, insurance, paper work. I am saying that most people don't have a clue because I didn't when got into the business side of what I do.
I am not trying to throw cold water on anyone's dreams.


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## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

I have made a very deliberate decision to not try to make money woodworking. I'm quite sure it would take away the fun. My Mother likes to place orders with me for me to make stuff that she gives away as Christmas gifts. On year I made 8 pizza cutters with racks. On something as simple as that I learned that I don't like taking orders and/or working in a production fashion.

More recently, my Mother placed an order for me to make 3 chairs for her church.

I need to learn to say no to my Mother but, so far, I have not been able to do that. Nonetheless, this little mini-exposure to working for a client, with a deadline, is something I just don't enjoy doing.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Hey Andy- I think you missed my point entirely.

I am saying that 99% of the information the average self employed person gives to someone who is considering starting their own business is the negative stuff. You hardly EVER here someone encourage someone to follow their goals with good, positive advice.

I just wonder why that is…

Hey Rich- Give my your mommy's phone number. I'll tell her no for you.


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## Puzzleman (May 4, 2010)

StumpyNubs, I agree. Most of the talk about most anything is the negative side. We do not hear the positive near enough.

I for one love being in business for myself in my woodwokring business. I love the woodworking part, the sales part, the running an office part and all of the other great parts about running a business. One thing that I do realize is that while many people dream about being their own boss, they really just want to put in their time and get a check. I for one, love what I do so much that I don't think about the money but rather the excitement of the next day's work, the next day's sales, the next day's issues and all the other fun of the next day.

Being in business for myself is a blast. I do have several people who work for me that do their work very well and get a check for it and they are very happy doing it. I could not run my business without them.

As far as it being harder to make a buck, my sales have been up every year, some more than others, but still up from the previous year. In fact, at my last art show sales were up by over 20% from the previous year.


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

andy6601, I've read all these posts, especially yours, and you have me a little confused. I think we mostly understand that nothing is easy if you want it done well, and you want to do it full time. Neither is working for some slavedriver in a job you might not like. What confuses me is you seem to negative on both ends of the stick, and then I caught your little end saying you put at the end of each post.
"Nothing is hard once you know how to do it."

Doesn't that fly right into the face of most of what you've said up till now???


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## andy6601 (Aug 23, 2011)

Tennesse, 
You are correct, I guess I kind of lost where I was trying to take my thread. What spurred me was a perivous thread that I read about someone who took a commission and complained about how much they did not enjoy building this piece for someone. Than at the bottom of their rant they post how they just accepted another one after all that was said. So what I was trying to convey to everyone is once you begain exchanging compensation for your work it takes it to a new level and makes it "harder" just like the description on this forum intro says it does. Where I came up short was not keeping my original thought clear on this. As for my signature I have that becuase I believe a person really can do anything they want, but in the beganing it seems hard, but once one knows how to do it, it is not so. I hope this makes it clear as mud for you.


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## handystanley (Jun 4, 2010)

Last Thursday my 15 year old son and I were coming back from the welding class we are taking together. I was complaining to him about my left hand really hurting. He told me, "Dad you need to stop working on computers (I am an analyst at a university that requires me to be on a computer all day) and start a woodworking business."

Now that I am vested and can walk away with retirement benefits my wife and I have talked about me starting up my handyman business again (I live just north of the Golden Gate bridge). She even wants me off the computer.

I conducted a presentation at Oracle Open World this year ( http://www.oracle.com/openworld/index.html ) and in 2006. Presented at the Higher Education Users Group Alliance Conference. Co-contributed and authored a white paper to Oracle and have been serving on the Oracle Usability Advisory Board and on a Product Advisory Group. But this year I have taken notice of one thing…I am no longer having any fun. Even my welding instructor tells us in class to have fun.

My daughter just turned 17 and my son will be turning 16 in November, I will be turning 57 next month as well. Honestly, I am getting tired of the commute and want to work closer to home in addition to other issues.

I suppose the hold up is the need to make what I am making now and getting over the fear of the economy. Personally, I agree with StumpNubs this forum needs to take a positive approach to those of us who want to create our own income instead of just being benefactors of a monthly paycheck.


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

Stan -
Be careful about that handyman work - it can be pretty challenging for us old guys. That was my original plan when I "retired" (i.e got laid off and couldn't find a new job in my late 50's) in '03. The handyman part didn't last long because of bad knees, bad back, and the realization that "I'm too damned old for this crap". I focused on cabinets and furniture and have done pretty well since then.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

I opened my business more out of nessessity. I was struggling with a state job. It is a long and maybe boring story. But my wife and I now run a fairly successful custom cabinet business. It has been a challenge to say the least and a huge learning curve. It has been difficult and stressfull in our first full time year but overall I have enioyed it.


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## handystanley (Jun 4, 2010)

@Sawkerf: I hear you loud and clear about the handyman issue. For the points you laid out are some of the same reasons I am hesitating.

@Jerry: What you and your wife have done sound interesting and allows those creative juices to be used. This would be something that would be appealing to me. It is just getting the experience to make quality cabinets.

I have also thought about doing something with furniture repair and / or refinishing.


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## DHaden (Feb 13, 2011)

The hard is what makes it great, if it was easy everyone would be doing it.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

My brother and I manufacture Architectural Molding and have been doing this sort of thing for 40 years. There are a lot better and easier ways to make a living. I thought that maybe we would get to slow down at our age but because of this economy we have never seen it rougher than it is today.


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## Puzzleman (May 4, 2010)

What is interesting to me is that even my grandfather said that is was very hard to make a dollar in his day. He owned a Heating and cooling company back when people where switching from oil and coal to gas, so most of what he did was putting in new furnaces, duct work and maintaining them.

Things never change.

If you think that you can make a buck and work at it the same way you always did, you will get the same result. Trying new ideas in production, design and marketing might yield some benefits. At the worse, you discover some ways that don't work. Which isn't all bad.

DHaden, Right on!!


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

You need a written plan. Not necessarily an MBA quality plan, but one detailed enough to cover all the components of running a business.

Find a mentor that is business savvy. Have them be your devil's advocate.

Test and revise your plan until you are reasonably comfortable with viability.

It may be your dream, but I recommend not to take the leap without a plan. It just makes good sense.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

I knew there was a reason I put Stumpy as a buddy. I was an employee for most of my life, I returned to Mexico and could not find a job with a decent wage so I started my own business. I wish I had done it back when I was in my 20s and 30s not now in my early 50s.

Tell me if this sounds familiar. You work for a company, if you have a profession they tell you your salary. Then pretty soon the overtime starts to kick in, you en up working 10, 11, 12 hours days, one third of those hours for free. After a while, if you complain they tell you "ok, you deserve a raise" and then they give you a pittance…

Now, I don't care what job you do, you will have to deal with people, even if it is your own co workers. I rather deal with customers, even if they area PITA than some a$$hole co workers I had to deal with. At least I know I will get paid for putting up with the customer.

So tell me, what is so different? You work long hours, you have to put up with people, etc. The difference is that at least your are doing or building something for yourself, not for someone else or that CEO on the top of the line Mercedes Benz.

Positive attitude and an unrelenting self promotion plan are the key to success. You should read the blogs by Michael1 he has some very good advice.


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

handystanley:
I did refinishing for 12 years back when I was in my late 30's and 40's. Now I am 62 and I would not touch that business with a ten-foot pole. It's just way too hard to do proper refinishing compared to building and finishing new. That's why I got into guitars. First off, I love the instrument, even though I am not that great of a player. But designing new guitars to owners wishes and bringing that to life is very rewarding, and takes up a lot less space than a cabinet shop. I think there may be as many guitar builders as cabinet builders! But people will buy multiple guitars, only one kitchen and a couple baths. 
So I would recommend if you have a personal love of some sort of woodworking, that will be much more rewarding than trying to compete in another form of woodworking that you might be talented in, but does not hold your interest as much as the love. 
Maybe it's just woodworking for you, but that would be rare. Most of us specialize in some sort of woodworking. In any case, also remember you have limitations, so if you get into cabinets, can you also hang them?
When I build a guitar, the customer either gets it shipped, or if local, they come over and play it in my studio and I get money. No effort!!


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## handystanley (Jun 4, 2010)

@Tennessee…good food for thought. Thanks.


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## cabmaker (Sep 16, 2010)

Nice thread Andy. Lots of good responses as well. I too have seen many posts about the prospect of going into this business and have a few times given an honest reply, then got slammed for it. I can take it. I have seen a few ups and downs in the business. According to the yellow pages I have had a remodeling and building business for 38 yrs now. This has for the bulk of those years been shop supported and I would tell anyone that it is not easy but can be done but cannot be done by everyone.
Sorry, but I do not agree with previous posts about school degrees, business school,etc just to get you up and running in business. I know quite a few degree holders in the art of business that I would not hire to rake leaves.
If you have been playing with wood for a few years it is not likely you would become successful in a woodworking business based on that criteria alone. The following four items are those I have surmised as being basic criteria for succes in any endevor:

1 Lots of cash available
2 Lots of product knowledge
3 Lots of people skills
4 lots of determination ll Gotta ask yourself, If you have all four you have a winning combinatiion. If you have any two you have a chance. If you have one or none,sorry, slim to no chances of success


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## Neight (Nov 6, 2011)

As someone only days into actually starting my own business, I can say that I have a healthy respect for self-employment. My dad was always self-employed. for most of my life, he refinished antique furniture, he was also a salesman for quite a lot of that time as well. That man worked harder than anyone I have ever known in my life! His father made cabinets, and that love of woodworking, and being in business for myself has been passed down several generations of my family. nearly every one of my immediate blood relatives are in business for themselves! I know what is coming, I know how hard it is, and I know exactly what to expect. I do not ask people what they think of my idea for a business, nor do I want advice about it.
I know why most people jump right to the negative with advice, it was hard for them to get where they are, and someone else getting into it is more competition! No one wants to help someone else who might just have a better idea than they do get into the same business as them. It's much easier to be discouraging, because you know first hand what kind of a struggle it really is. Ask the guy who made a few million in his first year about starting a business, and he will tell you to work hard and follow your gut! That's it, that is his big secret! But the guy who sweated and worked for years just to survive, or even someone who worked and just broke even, will be much more prone to emphasize that part of it. It's just human nature at the end of the day 
I have always wanted to be self-employed. For me personally, I HATE punching a clock, and working for the sake of paying bills (no offense to anyone who lives that way, I have nothing against living that way, it's just not for me). In my late teens and early 20's I was content to have a job and collect a check, but back then I wanted an easier life. Now, with work getting harder and harder to find, among other more personal reasons, I can't imagine the idea of starting all over with a new job that I don't enjoy doing, simply to have enough money to pay someone else to live how they want to!
To me, the most important reason to be self-employed is to do something that you love, or at least makes you feel more in control of your life. I know my limitations, and even though I am new to building my own products out of wood, I have been around and involved with woodworking my whole life. There is a reason I am building and not following my dad into refinishing. Refinishing is HARD WORK! It is much harder to repair someone else's creation than build your own. I know I wouldn't enjoy refinishing, so I don't do it. Instead, I choose to create, because that is also something I enjoy.
I think something most people have missed in this thread is you really have to know yourself to succeed in anything. You have to know what level of quality or originality you can sustain. You have to know your limitations, and more importantly, when to challenge them! I feel I have a good handle on what I am capable of, so I am diving in head first. I plan to build what I can with the tools I have and skills I can acquire quickly. Fortunately for me, my wife and I live as though we are poor, even when we have plenty of money in the bank. We enjoy being simple, and I think that is another thing that people might not consider. You have to be willing to tell yourself no, and not indulge in things you don't need. learn that first, then worry about having your own business.
success or failure is not determined by how hard something is, it is determined by how committed you are to overcoming the challenged that are headed your way! It's funny I happened to read this today, since earlier I changed my sig line to the Mark Twain quote it is now. An occupation is work if you only do it because you have to. That holds true for anything you do in exchange for money. Most of the rest is logistics, it's all in how you get done what needs to be done to make it to bed that night


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## MattF (Mar 22, 2011)

Read "Quitter" by Jon Acuff


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

I think there's one important thing missing from the original post "it's just plain hard to make a buck *in this economic climate"* I never imagined I would end up being self employed and running my own woodworking business, but here I am, making one off jobs to order and will be for the foreseeable future.
This is my fifth year out on my own, for the first 20 months I had work ahead of me for months and months. On the crest of the wave that everyone was riding during the good times, no one was afraid of opening their wallet. Then we had the banking crisis, credit crunch and recession. Things are a whole lot different now. 
For me, going from job to job, as I am at the moment, is better than having no job at all - which is the situation I'd be in now if I hadn't taken the plunge. I never anticipated getting rich from woodworking, it was more about having a sustainable career for the next 25 years - I've done the 9 to 5 and been there numerous times when management have trimmed the workforce - always managed to dodge the bullet though. That's one thing I definitely don't miss about working for someone else. 
If I only cared about money and did another start up, I'd probably be jet washing drains, some of those guys charge whatever they like, have no skill and no morals. It's not that I love what I'm doing, what drives me is the challenge, and the belief that if I can do these things now, what will I be capable of in a couple of years time.
If the job market picks up, I'd certainly consider working for for someone else, for a steady wage and without the headache of designing jobs and all the running around to meet, discuss, measure, get materials before you've even made a cut. At least now I have another set of skills as well. But chances are, if the job market picks up, so will my own business, so I can't tell you if I'd be any better off or not. 
I think you're being unnecessarily negative about the dealing with people part, sure you come across some oddballs, you come across some great people as well. It's not that big a deal for me to listen to someones life story or reminiscences, in one ear and out the other. I don't think you'd get many commissions if you weren't tolerant of that, though.
So maybe I've been rambling a bit - Is it hard to make a buck? yes of course it is, but better to just get on with it and ride out the storm than look at it in a negative light. The day I stop caring about how well I can do a job will be the day I quit this and do something else.


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## peteg (Sep 2, 2010)

I worked in the Corporate feild for about 35 of my 50 years working, the other time spent running my own 1 man business in 3 totally different non related feilds.
Guess I was lucky with my Corporate background I learnt to do the basics by nature. I was grilled by the Directors untill they were satisfied it was going to work & it was pulled apart/ reviewed every month to make sure it was always on track, & I think this is a major problem with a lot of small operators they dont have that independant continual review available to them.
Research your target market / product, Draw up a plan that will work for you (ie best use of your skills)
Do your numbers, build in your review mechanisim, & if you are lucky enough to have a minder who knows the game to look over your shoulder like a guide dog, then go do the business.
I used to say to my accountant every morning "How much do we owe?, how much are we owed?, & how much money is in the bank" 
I have seen too many small business who dont get the bills out on time, dont chase up the money, then run out of cash & go broke & loose the lot. If it aint working for you get out before it throws you out


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## nate22 (Jul 12, 2010)

I agree with stumpynubs it seems like when you tell somebody you want to start your own business they start telling you all of the negative things. I got that some when I started mine 4 years ago. I finally told myself to ignore the negative people and just listen to the positive remarks. Yea I will agree it is hard the first few years but if you are willing to put in the hard work it will pay off. And I have a supportive wife so that helps alot to. But business can be successful if you put in the work.


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## bobsmyuncle (Jan 12, 2011)

After 30 years working for corporate worlds, I left to start my own business-one man band. It has been successful, but not without a lot of work.

I really get irritated with one of my nieces who is an elementary school teacher. All she does is whine and complain at the end of her vacations in her job where she only works 185 days a year. What was that line on Jaws, "Chum some of this s**t?"


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## geofftirr (Dec 25, 2011)

Ok couldn't resist since I had to post one of those posts a few minutes ago. Hey it could be worse I started my video business in 2007 right as things were starting to tank. point is it can be done with persistence and cash. I really wish high schools and colleges taught business as in small business, finding a market etc these days. I get approached all the time by people who want to get into film thinking it would be easy and It couldn't be more different.

Whats worse I am seriously considering starting a small scale woodworking business just to even out my slow times or possibly in the future provide more stability. Long way off on that one.


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## dankc908 (Dec 3, 2011)

This is a fascinating topic - in fact, this will be the first on LJ that I intend to add to my watchlist. My wife and I had a craft show business. That business is what led me to my first scrollsaw due to the fact that she wanted me to "do something" to add to our craft lineup (she did a lot of sewing and other small craft items). Later I added a lathe because handmade pens have always fascinated me. A little over a year ago we decided to shut down the business side of our crafting due to some health issues. She has a deteriorating back and I have had 2 knee replacements and 2 rotator cuff shoulder surgeries. We just couldn't handle the setup and tear-down at the craft shows any longer. That and the fact that I couldn't get much shop time in kind of sapped my (our?) enthusiasm. After looking 'at the numbers' we decided that the craft show circuit didn't allow for much profit after ALL expenses were factored in. She now sews the 'fun stuff' for family and friends. I, now, give away a lot of pens and clocks. I just got a bandsaw and I am looking forward to making some bandsaw boxes in order to give to family and friends. In short - we've left the business and are now enjoying the hobby side of what used to be a business. It is much more enjoyable! I do, however, need to be fair. I still have a full-time job that I do enjoy (Associate Professor of Philosophy). I think part of my problem was trying to work a business and work full-time for someone else as well. Trying to maintain that balance would, in my opinion, be very difficult. It might have been different if the woodworking had been a full-time adventure. I do try to support my fellow woodworkers. In fact, my wife and I have decided that, for quality purposes, when possible we will buy 'small furniture' pieces at craft shows. We like the prices and the quality is much better than what we get at our local furniture stores. My philosophy is "Buy local and buy American!"


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