# Gas Powered Saw?



## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

I was just reading a discussion about changing the motor on a table saw and it dawned on me that I have never seen or heard of a gas powered table saw, or circular saw either, for that matter.

Seems like a pretty simple substitute on a contractor type saw.

I've seen drills with little two stroke gas engines, but a more useful tool would be a chainsaw type motor on a circular saw. Battery powered drills are pretty much perfected but I don't think the battery saws are there yet. I know they exist, but I hear comments like they run out of juice after a few cuts, or they just don't have the power to cut anything bigger than trim.

I'm obviously not talking about an application for a furniture maker or a fine woodworking shop, but like working at a river house or cabin where there may not be standard power. Or, maybe for a remodeler for use outside where extension cords are a pain.

I think I'd love to have a worm drive saw with a 22cc gas engine.


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

I think I would use a generator I don't see an plication where a gas powered saw would be of any benefit other than at a mill. Just my 2cents.


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## ajosephg (Aug 25, 2008)

Too much starting and stopping


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## mikema (Apr 27, 2011)

unbelievably http://dayton.craigslist.org/tls/2590782419.html

Seems incredibly unsafe to have a gas powered motor directly connected to a TS.


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## PutnamEco (May 27, 2009)

There were a few manufacturers that produced gas circular saws, The Homelite had their XL-100 which was probably the most common, I believe it was based on a chainsaw engine. Piston Powered Products produced their Super Saw, which IMHO is the best design of the bunch being very similar to a string trimmers engine that kept the weight down a reasonable amount. One of the earliest commonly produced would be the Comet by Tote-n Tool, that was part of a series of tools based on the O&R (Ohlsson and Rice) engine platform.

Homelite XL-100 vid





a 1919 Oshkosh Eveready table saw





Re: *sandhill* says:
"I think I would use a generator I don't see an plication where a gas powered saw would be of any benefit other than at a mill."

So which would you rather carry a three horsepower motored saw or a generator capable of powering a three horsepower motor and a three horsepower electric saw? Now think about building a house in the wilderness, where yours access is either by horse or ATV.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Dragging up an old thread, I know, but this is too cool: http://www.farmshow.com/a_article.php?aid=26032 A Stihl chainsaw engine should provide ample power even if not using a worm drive gear train. Surprisingly light too.


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## pauljuilleret (Nov 16, 2013)

If you are close to any Amish they use them all the time I just had some roof work done by a Amish contractor in the Wooster Ohio area that is what this crew used As I understand it they can use electric tools as long as they don't own them These guys though were the strict type (Old order Amish I think they are called) I offered the use of mine and was told they would use theirs instead a few stores in the area do sell them as I understand but you won't get them at the big box stores


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## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

Fire trucks often carry gas powered cutoff saws that use circular blades, but they're a different form factor than a construction circular saw.

Personally, I'm also in the camp that would probably choose a generator and electric tools. The generator will run several tools sequentially, without starting and stopping an engine, as well as power anything else electric. You also only have to worry about things like fresh fuel and maintenance on one engine vs. many.

30A generators capable of powering 220v tools are common, easily transported, and not expensive when compared to many small engines. You'll see them everywhere on R/V's, as well utility trucks in states with vehicle anti-idling laws.

If you want small, I have a 2000 watt Honda inverter generator that is less than 50 pounds, super efficient, extremely quiet, and will easily power any 120v power tool. I've used it to run anything from airplane pre-heaters, to my electric chainsaw, to routers, as well as to cover my critical needs during power failures at home. Yamaha makes a similar unit. The only problem is that small, light, well-made 2000 watt / 120v units cost more to purchase than a garden variety 10,000 watt 220v unit.


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## lndfilwiz (Jan 7, 2014)

Paul beat me to it about Old Order Amish. We have a large community of Amish in WNY with most of them being Old Order. They use Gasoline and diesel powered motors to run their shops. Many have overhead pulley systems to run their power tools that they modify. I have seen one Amish man convert a circular saw to run with a chain saw motor. However, this is frowned upon in this community. Most are not allowed to even own chain saws. The use of overhead pulley systems have been used for hundreds of years and this has not diminished the quality of work the Amish do.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

I was thinking about this concept (maybe a little too much) and I was looking in my shed and remembered my edger really isn't that far off from being a gas circular saw, so I thought why not:




























I did have to fabricate a bushing to keep the blade concentric with the arbor as it's only 0.55" where as the blade is 0.625" but after that, it worked surprisingly well. The speed of the edger is close enough to that of a circular saw that performance was good, cutting a little over 1.5" deep in soft maple was done as quickly as I would be able to with an electric circular saw. Despite holding the blade concentric, the shoulder on the arbor was too small and allowed enough blade wobble to cut a kerf about twice that of the blade, but still did so efficiently.


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

> I was thinking about this concept (maybe a little too much) and I was looking in my shed and remembered my edger really isn t that far off from being a gas circular saw, so I thought why not:
> 
> I did have to fabricate a bushing to keep the blade concentric with the arbor as it s only 0.55" where as the blade is 0.625" but after that, it worked surprisingly well. The speed of the edger is close enough to that of a circular saw that performance was good, cutting a little over 1.5" deep in soft maple was done as quickly as I would be able to with an electric circular saw. Despite holding the blade concentric, the shoulder on the arbor was too small and allowed enough blade wobble to cut a kerf about twice that of the blade, but still did so efficiently.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


That thing would be great for removing a glue down, or other floor!!! Or straigtlinning sheets on the floor, against a guide!! or just random havoc.


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

In regards to Amish modding tools to be gas instead of electric.



















Source:
http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/homemade-and-modified-tools/hacking-a-ridgid-miter-saw.aspx


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Damn that electricity stuff.


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## nicksmurf111 (Jun 6, 2014)

Lawnmower engines are governed, so as long as you have enough flywheel weight they should work great on a table saw. You can even rig up a cutout switch where you would normally expect your on-off switch to be. I like rigging up stuff and would consider using a 3-5hp horizontal engine on a planer or molder.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

A saw or any machine can be run off a belt driven jackshaft. That jackshaft can be run from any power source. This type of drive was in general use 100 years ago. The power source in this case could be steam engine, gasoline engine, water power or even horse power and off course electric motor. The saw doesn't care who or what is powering it. There are even water powered saws for underwater use. I wouldn't want a gas engine running in the same shop as I'm in. A better way is to run an electric saw from a portable generator. It's just not practical.


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

> I wouldn t want a gas engine running in the same shop as I m in. A better way is to run an electric saw from a portable generator.
> 
> - MrRon


In fact a worker in texas Died of Carbon Monoxide poisoning this week running a gas powered concrete saw indoors, w/o proper ventilation.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

I do find the concept very interesting for multiple reasons, but it stands to reason, without some common sense you could earn yourself a Darwin award pretty quickly.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I heard an Amish craftsman on the radio awhile back.

He said they have a phone down in the shop but not
in the house… things like that. He talked about spreadsheets
and how much time they could save him but then
one has to get the computer to run the software
and then there exists the temptation to use the
computer for other things too… so he'd been
thinking about the implications for many years.


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

ont waste your time with the toys get a decent one

http://video.carsguide.com.au/v/182476/Holden-V8-chainsaw-is-an-Aussie-muscle-axe


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

I think that electric motors have better torque response that gas powered motors, especially for applications like wood working machines where sudden, high torque is required. I think that this is why diesel locomotives are basically a large, diesel powered generator powering an electric drive.


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## nicksmurf111 (Jun 6, 2014)

Small engine governors are generally crude. The lightweight flywheels don't help. You need to oversize the engine so that the governor can give it more throttle when you need the torque (using a 5hp in an application where you would need a 2-3hp electric motor). But, generally, you can get them to run at the steady 3600 rpm.

I wish I could get my hands on a hit-and-miss engine.

Diesel locomotives are electric over diesel so that they do not need a gear transmission.


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## bat47 (Dec 25, 2014)

I just bought this saw. It was built by Construction Machinery Corp.The company went out of business in 1967 and left nothing to date it by. The motor is a Wisconsin and was built from 1941-1957. The serial number is unreadable so I cannot get any closer than that. I have a sales catalog from the 40's that has this saw in it. There is one that is smaller and another that has a 4 cyl motor. This one has a 8.4hp single cylinder motor. It would not make a good saw for the construction site since it weighs in at a little over 700lbs.









Here is a link to more pictures.
http://s272.photobucket.com/user/bat47/library/Table%20saw?sort=3&page=1


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

This whole thread seems sort of insane to me. I think in terms of my Stihl chainsaw, and how erratic that really is when compared to my table saw. I cannot imagine using a gas powered cutoff saw as shown above, nor a gas powered rip saw like the Amish seem to use. Seems like a whole amount of work and a real unsafe practice for no gain. Am I missing something here, or is everyone else who uses this type of equipment nuts?

The only one who seems to be interesting is bat47, who bought this old gas powered table saw as kind of a curiosity, restoring a relic from days gone by. As an antique, that makes perfect sense. As a day to day use tool, not on my best day….


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## nicksmurf111 (Jun 6, 2014)

I'd consider something that is chainsaw powered to be a littler cumbersome, but any stationary equipment that has enough static weight or flywheel weight to deal with the vibration of the motor, I wouldn't be worried about. It's going to function the same. The only thing is you need to actuate a clutch and don't have a switch that can be turned off with your knee/palm/elbow. The Amish, around my neck of the woods, run their equipment off a centrally located diesel engine. Their tools can be as inherent safe as an electrical tool, minus the switch. I haven't seen many of their shops, but I'd like to see if they set up proper guards around v-belts, flat belts and pto shafts. I'm sure that de-coupling the engine from the machine probably makes a huge difference.

Other thing to consider, is some of these small engines we see today are still quite unrefined. They don't build engines with heavy iron cases and countershafts (some have 10+ hp engines have countershafts some don't) like that Wisconsin seen above They just don't put a lot of money into producing really nice heavy ones, because they are used for mundane tasks, and also need to be light. Contrary to that, you see sawmills using 100+ hp stationary engines…the Amish probably use similar.


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## bat47 (Dec 25, 2014)

There is no way I would put a piece of wood through the one I bought. It actually came with a fence and a miter gauge of sorts. I don't have either one. The odd thing is that the miter gauge bolted to the table top. When cutting the wood the foot pedal would be pushed down causing the blade to come up. The blade is connected to a long arm which gave the it a lot of travel. Also the motor has a very heavy flywheel on it.


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

> There is no way I would put a piece of wood through the one I bought. It actually came with a fence and a miter gauge of sorts. I don t have either one. The odd thing is that the miter gauge bolted to the table top. When cutting the wood the foot pedal would be pushed down causing the blade to come up. The blade is connected to a long arm which gave the it a lot of travel. Also the motor has a very heavy flywheel on it.
> 
> - bat47


Holy moley…I rest my case.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Not long ago, a CL ad from Anacortes, WA, was selling a 13" Rockwell HD planer powered by a 13 h.p. gas engine. It was mounted on good size pneumatic tires. It was claimed that the power was ample in that application.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Here's the CL ad for the planer I mentioned above


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

When I was growing up, my dad took me to one of his friends' house and this guy had everything in his shop running off his tractor 

Tractor parked outside, just above an idle, turning a big overhead shaft that had sheaves wherever he needed them turning these wide leather belts. Fuel was cheap back then and when you think about it, this is how a lot of factories ran.


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## cutmantom (Feb 2, 2010)

generator allows you to use anything that plugs in, tools, electronics, lights…....


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## bridgeton (Jun 18, 2012)

I have gone to mud sales in Lancaster county and seen Unisaws that had hydraulic and air motors that the Amish use. They said they had a hydraulic power unit to run the saw it had a gas engine on it or a diesel air compressor.


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

For several years, I had a shop in an out building. Only way i could work was with a generator. Expensive, but doable. (do not operate without singing grounding rod and binding frame of generator to it).


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

Because I just saw it…and laughed.
http://charlotte.craigslist.org/grd/4852730744.html


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

Have 4 or 5 people said 'generator' yet? Generator. Then you could use your table saw. And your chop saw. And your drill. And your radio. And so on and so on.

But I'm sure before rural electrification that these guys were extremely common.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

How big a generator would be needed to run a 3 hp TS? Or a big planer?


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Dang duplicate post.


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## nicksmurf111 (Jun 6, 2014)

runswithscissors, I'd overshoot what you need and use a 5kw generator for a 3hp TS. If you do the calculations, you need much less, but you wouldn't want to get a 3.5kw just to figure out you can't start the motor. I assume you are talking about single phase 240v.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

Amps X Voltage = Watts.


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## nicksmurf111 (Jun 6, 2014)

Multiply efficiency (around 70% if you are calculating for hp per watt) and starting amperage (a lot) with that and you can get close to what you need in the way of wattage.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Suppose you could run a tablesaw much like a chainsaw, such that there is some kind of centrifugal clutch system, that engages when the engine is revved.

I am just picturing a pull string on a Unisaw.

then shut the gas engine off.

I still thing for remote use…. a generator is more useful, and will power other tools +lights or a radio


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## nicksmurf111 (Jun 6, 2014)

DrDirt - http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200415723_200415723
Same kind of clutch you see a lot of folks using on gas powered saw mills.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

A clutch like that came on the gas engine of a garden chipper/shredder I bought. Ironically (given the thrust of this thread), I swapped the non-running engine out for a 220v 3 hp. electric motor, and adapted the clutch to the motor's shaft. It works great, and has ample power for all the stuff I shove through there. I used the clutch because I figured the heavy starting load (hammers and chipper flywheel) would be hard on the motor.

But I'm not trying to run machinery off site, and don't need a generator. I asked the question because I think using a gas engine to run a generator to power a saw (or planer, etc.) is inefficient, compared to powering directly with the engine (aside from other reasons for or against the idea).


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