# Job Site Stress levels



## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

Pardon my grammar, Typing isnt my forte, neither is spelling

I cant speak for others but job site stress can freak me out. Its our job to be the last guy in. Its our job to make what others &^%$ed, look good again and that is often challenging because the dude that made a mess is standing there beside you and they are the distant cousin of the sister in laws nephew so one cant always call a spade a spade can they but they can be pushed that far if people so choose.

Ever have a guy at a job site who lays tile, and they think they know everything. Ever try having a dialog with some one who knows everything ? Well you cant have a conversation, you can only listen to the monologue cuz there is no such thing as a dialogue : (

I often find that those who think they know everything, will not stop talking until every one in the room is convinced, they are expensive because they stop trades form focusing on what they do, they go through long monologues explaining why they did things the way they did, they had the answer from the start.

I instantly think, to myself……..(What a dick, and y me, dear God, Why me ?…….Why do I have to listen to this ******************** ? )

The ultimate stress level is where the client, is spending half a million on a custom home, where the trades who did the mudding of the drywall joints, laid the paper across the corners did a bang up, piss poor job, so much mud, you need to put a big ass taper on the back of the baseboard other wise the crap is listing at 8 degrees or u need a "WHACK" of DAP.

What should a nice trim job be worth in a half a million dollar home? ………Just labour ?……….what should the budget be in a halh a million dollar home?………….any ideas ?………..Cux I have an idea of how much thats worth, a real good idea which brings me back to job site stress.

Sadly the kitchen is by others, and I got to watch the "High End" kitchen go in by the master installers, the "in" crowd. Yup, certianly high end when it arrived, the owners of it still refer to it as a "Master Piece". I got to watch. I kept my shut, with the exception of this forum I kept my shut.

I watched the pieces file in the door and listened to the "Master" tell the client, that there was a problem in that it wasnt calculated into the equation that no deducted the depth of the concrete floor that buries the radient heat tubing, nor did they deduct the thickness of the drywall on the ceiling and the hardwood on the floor, which meant cutting off just a few inches. ……………we just wont put the trim piece of the gable of the fridge ?……………I couldnt believe my ears, when the "Master" passed on the cost of the "alterations" with the help of the tiler, to the customer ?

I watched these masters of their craft ( and apparently every other craft) , butcher a kitchen, throw dust across the room, leave hardwood flooring unprotected from the perils of an install, I watched them cut a hole in the ceiling of the drywall, never covered the hardwood , the 300 pound man, grinding his boot into the chunks of debris into the floor………………..powerless, to say a thing.

At or near the end of any big reno or build, the client, the owners, they are often mentally "$#@^ing Fried", done, without shame, tears, just spent. Dealing with that, near the end, can be stressful. I watched the master rip apart a unit that holds a flip up, piece of hardware for a Kitchen Aid Mix Master

unbelievable


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## BentheViking (May 19, 2011)

i feel your pain…some people are so stupid. Its probably the best redeming quality of my current unemployed situation is not having to deal with the stress provided by the people around you who are just idiots.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Usually all it takes to be a master at something is to be a master at bull******************** and charge more than anyone else.


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## bhog (Jan 13, 2011)

I can relate.The company I work for is 2 people,the owner and me.Were there from start to finish normally helping with the basement to doing touchup before they move in.We dont do the plumbing/hvac,drywall finishing,or painting,but usually everything else.I trim out by myself and absolutely hate when a drywaller just slaps mud around corners etc.I always scrape alot of it off to try to keep away from having to taper base.I cannot stand to see a gap between the base and wall so if its white base i caulk,if its stained-major scraping.

4 yrs ago a homeowner requested we let their buddy install the kitchen,cool we had other stuff to do.Its the most embarrassing kitchen in any of the homes we have built.Gapped crown-major now,stiles not flush and tight,not level etc.They were "Master Carpenters" older guys that seemed to know it all,and acted like I knew nothing because I was in my late 20s.At the end I told them everything about the job they did that I did not like and I think since I wasnt the one paying them(homeowner connect) they took it to heart.
My dentist bought that house last year and she loves that kitchen-lol.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I hear you, and I hope you feel better just getting that off your chest. Sometimes it just seems like nobody takes pride in their work anymore.


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## ShopTinker (Oct 27, 2010)

I think some of those guys worked on my house. I stopped by when they were framing and they put the door frame for the door from our kitchen to our deck on the wrong wall.

I stopped by at lunch the day the guys installing the counter tops were putting our kitchen bar top on and they were getting ready to stack concrete blocks on the laminate top to hold it down while the adhesive cured. I stopped them and went out to the garage for cardboard boxes to cover the bar top. I couldn't believe they were going to stack those rough blocks on the laminate.

When we were doing the final walk through and my wife pointed out we were missing several of the recessed lights in the kitchen and hallway. Turns out they were there, but under the drywall.

Our builder had a reputation of having the best subs. I'd hate to see the worst ones!

I don't know how you do it. I couldn't work around these guys (bozos) without stressing out.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

unfortunately there are too many tradesmen out there and too many "masters" and some are far from either. been there, seen that.

But then you get to a job site and see some cabinetmakers to a terrific job and it's just so nice standing there and watching then and the cabinets and appreciate TRUE craftsmenship.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

still no guesses on what a 550k house is worth to trim,….assuming there is trim ?

when you live in isolation, it becomes harder to mail a fathers day card and get the address right : )…………kidding


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## bubbyboy (Jan 10, 2011)

I am really OCD and like things done right the first time…...........But you guys better stop talking about my brother because he has done it all seen it all knows it all, if you don't believe me just ask him he will tell you so, you have to ask though because I can't stand to talk to him…..
Ron


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

I'm starting to like pens

its at least a "starting" point

22,000 members, 15,000 can make one ?

everyday

multiply that by the amount of exotic wood it takes to make one

multiply that by the amount of people who aren't a member of this fine forum, and its a big ass chunk of wood.

i do apologize for telling anyone, who might be so inclined to shut the %$#@ up,….to speak up …….I find it far more entertaining if you speak up. That should be what a job site is…………..to avoid, costly errors……..so please do list a grievance pile and I will forward it to HR.


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## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Trim work for that house would be $ 18,950 , finished in two weeks , which would actually run into 6+ weeks at intervals ,between rounds of golf and working on other Call Backs to fix the "masters" fu's on other jobs. If your BS tolerance gets thin, just take the rest of the day off and go drink at the VFW or pool hall . You will find a sympathetic ear. Always worked for me . By the way…....i like that word 'burble' ! Nice to see you posting again .


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

i looked at a job recently, where the potential client, claimed the finish carpenter did what I couldn't do in 2 months, …………….a perfectly trimmed job, multiple coffered celings with crown and beams, 4 sets of stairs nicely done, wainscotting, kitchen install…………….in 5 fkg days for 6 K with her hubby as a helper

I call BS


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## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Super BS. Total lie .


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## bubbyboy (Jan 10, 2011)

Moron…. Thats more than just BS I always found it amazing that clients would tell me that while I was there bidding a job for them. At the point they started telling me that crap I would say why are you talking to me if the other guy was so good where is he???


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## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

I would tell her that she might want to have her jewelry appraised , and check hubby's bank statement to see where the rest of that money went…and to whom. lol


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Moron, Try adding 4 or 5 "0"s to the price and you can watch stupidity on a grandiose scale. Total imbeciles with IQs lower than their ages doing everything you are talking about, plus the general contractors superintendent trying to make a name for himself pushes sheetrock before the building is fully dried in. Rain gets to the bottoms of the walls while they are painting! Everyone gets done in record time. Owner is about to move in, but just one thing; the walls are full of mold. All the Sheetrock has to come out and be replaced!!


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

First time in a long time, that I have wanted to walk off the job, forget the money, count my losses and move on.

Listening to the client say "It's a master piece"……………..

Topomax………who ever put the mud on the drywall, must have owned stock in the mfg, of the mud : ))

Stressful times


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

The drywall mud was likely put on by the lowest bidder who hired the cheapest labor he could find. I would expect nothing less when I take on a cabinet install.

Regardless, of the site conditions, it is the job of the Cabinetmaker/company to install true and level and account for floor thickness, counter thickness, wall variations and ceiling issues. This should not be treated as a change unless the conditions are a dramatic deviation from normal practice.

It is not uncommon to find 3/8" to 1/2" taper for mud in the corners, so I plan on this being the case in my designs. Crown treatments should have a scribable detail for variations in ceiling height. The toe height should be set to allow for the specific flooring selected so the 'net' height is uniform. (Not knowing the flooring and counter thickness beforehand is a 'rookie' mistake and comes from a modular, on-size-fits-all, production mindset.)

A high-end installation is about anticipating the details and making the flaws of the room disappear. The BS on the site is unfortunate, but, you should ensure, at least, that the work you have control of is always top flight and beyond reproach.


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## Woodwrecker (Aug 11, 2008)

It seems like everything has turned out to "time is money" to these masters, and pride in workmanship 
has been all but forgotten.
Good topic and good point of view.


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## usnret (Jul 14, 2011)

This is America, we no longer take pride in our work. We dont pay attention to the details. We rush the job and do it half a$$ and then charge even more money because we got it done early. Pride and craftsmanship has gone right out the window. I dont know maybe it's in China now.


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## KayBee (Jul 6, 2009)

As a former "shop only" cabinetmaker, I hated going on installs. I couldn't deal with the 'can't see it from my house' attitude that many had. I know I couldn't (okay, still can't) keep my mouth shut at some of the bs people try to pull. Especially when they start destroying something to save themselves a few minutes of work. Sorry that you're having to watch that and say nothing. That does make for serious stress.

Haven't kept up with pricing. But I do know that people really expect the price to be something below the cost of materials. Pointed that out and got the reply that "Joe can do it for less." I'm sure you know the conservation.


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## CampD (Nov 8, 2008)

*"a perfectly trimmed job, multiple coffered celings with crown and beams, 4 sets of stairs nicely done, wainscotting, kitchen install…………….in 5 fkg days for 6 K with her hubby as a helper"*

Ahhahhhahahahah, I got a bridge for ya too!


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## CampD (Nov 8, 2008)

Moron,
you dont mention how many sq ft the house is, how many ft of base? doors? ect ect ect.
You see around here (Boston) a 500k house is a 2 bed room ranch!


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

In this neck of the woods, 500 K buys about 3,000 square feet be at bungalow or a 2 story, comes with ocean views and acreage, 9 to 14 foot ceilings, radiant heated floors, and a 3 car garage. Sweet deals but most folks are retired and jobs are some what scarce.

Travel 50 miles north along the coast, and the millionaires and billionaires litter the coast.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

DS251……..thats what I'm sayn. When you charge 1,000 to 1,400 bucks a lineal foot for a kitchen, the cabinet company should get it right and the customer shouldnt have to pay for his lack of experience so watching the units get butchered……..I find it stressful.

I've done 4 installs for this guy, and a friend has done 40 or more. All have been a nightmare. Sinks not centred under the window, no scribe allowances for bastardized walls, some of the archaic kick-plates have scribe, others don't, forgotten specialty hardware, plumbing pipes perfectly centred on an interior gable causing drawers to be permanently fixed shut. Every time I suffer from hyper anxiety.

On this job, there is a "hood vent" and its stainless steel with goes wall to wall, a 10 foot span,cool lookn and he supplies it via a sub contractor but he tells the client that he wasnt sure about the site details and couldnt measure until after the lower cabinets are in place……….what a crock of BS.

same for the granite and yes, in some situations granite should be templated after the cabinets are installed but on a kitchen Island ?………….. or maybe the cabinets to the right and left of the stove where there is a granite back splash ?

I just find it all stressful


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I find it amazing that things I considered part of my job are now mistakes these clowns make these days and expect to get more money because they don't know their A$$ from a hole in the ground. This trend started in the 1980 recession when the work volume recovered but the price structure never did.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

What makes it real bad, is that the guy who owns the company, is a personal friend and has a type "A" personality. he just doesnt listen, conversations are always monologues and he "truly" believes he is right, that what he does cannot be improved.


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

I once did a couple of cofferred ceiling grids for a contractor. 
The first one was paint grade and was taped and plastered, so there was a lot of room for fudging joints, etc. 
The second one was 1200 square feet of all phillipine mahoganey with angled risers, compound miter joints and v-groove details on the face. (I think they still give tours, heheh)

After one week of leveling the ceiling, the contractor's best carpenter came to me and proudly announced it was level within one half of an inch and I could proceed with my installation.

I actually asked him which end of the room should I put the half inch of wood putty!

After another week of leveling, which I did myself, (at no extra charge), we were able to install the ceiling with less than 1/8" of variation from one end of the room to the other and no open joints.

It is an entirely different mindset from framing and trim carpentry to cabinetry and fine furniture carpentry. Sometimes we have to make an extra effort to bridge the gap.

I'm not sure the next lowest bidder would have taken the extra week to level the ceiling to ensure proper fitting of joints, but I wasn't going to put my name on something that would reflect so poorly on me.

Once you begin compromising to resolve a problem, it tends to multiply, not get better.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

DS251……….I totally concur

Never ever give up on/and/or surrender your own convictions, your own sense of ethics and principles.

Like you say, it does multiply and does not get better.

When I walk into a new job site, and the owner is bashing trades that were fired, my first instinct, my first thought, my radar says………….."its not that they did bad work, you just didnt want to pay the bill"

The $#it one has to deal with : )


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

When you had better be right. I had a small job to move a device on a hospital project. The device does not exist and the engineer most likely looked at another device when making the drawings. Oh well too bad; but, it is a weekend equipment up grade. Monday AM the penalty on the general contractor is $100,000 /day if the surgery suites are not ready.


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