# shop heat fuel costs



## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

I just ran a calculation based on my current electric rates vs the cost of propane and was pretty amazed to find that electric is about HALF the cost of propane here. I pay 11 cents per KWHr. I used a simple calculator that compares the cost of 100,000 BTUs of heat from either source based on your local cost for each.

$3.22 for 100,000 BTU from electric 
$7.37 for 100,000 BTU from Propane using a 90% efficient heater.

I had no idea there would be that much of a difference and I honestly thought propane would be cheaper.

With the holidays and the cold weather, I haven't been in my shop to work in WEEKS. I would love to be able to just keep it at around 40 or 45 when I'm not out there, and bring it up when I'm working.

I can bring the AIR temp up real fast with a 35,000 BTU propane heater, but it's noisy. And bringing the air temp up doesn't do anything for all that cold iron out there. So ya have to bring it up and keep it warm for an hour or so before you can touch anything without stickin' to it 

My shop is only 16×18 , but soon to be 16×24 when I build my wife's garden shed and get her out of the shop building. She actually volunteered to give me that extra 6 feet if I build her a garden shed. I only have 2×4 walls so that's all the insulation I could do. Seems fine once I warm it up.

thoughts welcome


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Charlie, I use a big 220V electric radiant heater hung over the workbench and tool chests. Within an hour the temp on the thermometer moves from 32 to about 60. That's not air temp, but the result of radiant heat striking the nearby surfaces. This quickly makes the tools easy on the hands, helps with condensation that would otherwise develop with air heaters. I LOVE it. 
I paid $4 for it at an auction where they thought it was a fluorescent light fixture. Got another one for $1 later same auction. Don't run out and try to buy one like these 5' twin tube deals because they list for about $1500 each! But you can get reasonable cost ones, even if you have to use more than one. The old chicken house heat lamps worked well before I got these super ones.

DanK


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

Electric heat is 100% efficient, if you can keep it in the building, and is dry, to boot. If electricity costs are that low for you, I wouldn't even bother with propane. Then again, I live in sunny southern California. I use natural gas for cooking and the clothes dryer. It's WAY cheaper than electricity. I bought a gas dryer and stove not long after I moved in here, and they paid for themselves within a year. One thing to try is radiant barrier insulation in the roof/rafters of your workspace. It makes a huge difference in both hot and cold weather.


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## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

Hmmmm, something wrong with those figures, but I'm not sure what.

We manage an RV park and our rates are 13¢/Kwh. Temps over this winter have been dipping to lower 20's F.

Depending on the preference of the site, normal cost is around $55-$75 per month for electric heat.

If they use their standard 20KBTu RV furnace, they will go through a tank or maybe a tank and a half per month.

These are 30 pound tanks, 5 gallons, cost is $27 to fill from empty.


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## RonInOhio (Jul 23, 2010)

When you are comparing fuel costs, you must take into consideration more than just the unit cost of
each fuel. That is, 
oil costs many times more per unit than electricy, but each unit of oil produces much more heat.

I looked up a chart that demonstrates what I'm trying to explain.

The chart shows that for furnaces, the propane @ 78% efficiency costs less than a 98% eff. 
electric furnace. For space heaters, the electric 100% efficient baseboard or room heater was about 5 dollars cheaper per million BTU. 
than 65% efficient vented propane space heater.

So cost will be determined to large extent on the efficiency of your particular propane heater.

If the chart below is too difficult to see you can tap the control key and "+" key to enlarge or
you can download it here->Fuel Cost Comparision Excel File


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## TheCaptain (Feb 3, 2013)

For me, being a boater and always worried about condensation, I have to tell you that, unless a propane heater is vented through an outside vent, it will produce more aitch-2-oh than you can imagine. Not a good thing in my shop. So, torpedo-type propane heaters can be a liability as far as I am concerned. Just saying.


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## RonInOhio (Jul 23, 2010)

If you can find a propane vented space heater that is ~75% or better efficient. It will likely 
cost less to heat with than a 100% efficient electric baseboard.

@Charlie Your numbers don't add up .

A unit of electricity (kilo-watt-hour) typically only has around 3400 btu 
(fuel heat content per unit)

Propane has 90,000 btu per unit.

So if I'm not mistaken, that translates to electricity costing 1/20 less for a unit than propane,
but only having ~1/30th the btu per unit than that of propane.

typical cost per unit of electricity is ~ 12 cents per KWH
typical cost per unit of propane is ~ 2.40 dollars per gallon


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Propane is expensive. I switched it out for a heat pump and the slight bump in my electric bill is about 1/4 what I used to pay for propane.


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## sprucegum (Dec 6, 2012)

I purchased a Sterling ceiling hung vented 45,000 btu propane heater. I did most of the installation myself but hired a gas tech to run the line and pressure test it. Total cost for the heater, concentric vent kit, and installation came out just under $1000. I am very happy with this unit it does not make a lot of noise,and it is 82% efficient . Electric was not an option for me without upgrading the electric system in the shop.
Prices tend to be all over the place on propane. I could have paid as much as $3.50/gallon but as a member of the local chamber of commerce I am able to buy it for .35 over cost which was $1.55/gal on my last delivery. I could get it a few cents cheaper if I owned my tank but not enough to make it worth doing.
If you are going to burn propane SHOP AROUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

Price per gallon on propane around here is about $2.78 and the calculator I used….. RonInOhio, you're right… something doesn't look quite right about the numbers.

I worked in my old garage at the previous house with a natural gas heater mounted up near teh ceiling. Commercial type. And I have worked in a shop with radiant electric and I have to say I prefer how the radiant electric feels, but this is going to come down to a cost issue as well. 
And I might not solve it before spring at the rate I'm going. At which point I'll be looking for an air conditioner.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I can't buy into those numbers. Electric gives you ~3400 BTU per KWH, LP about 94K BTU per gallon. In my case, electric is 9.75¢ per KWH, and LP about $2.00/gallon. LP is only 80% (+/-) efficient, so for me electric heat is about $2.90 per 100,000 BTUs while LP is about $2.75 per 100,000 BTUs. My electric cost is close to Charlie's number, but LP must be really expensive to get that $7+ number, and that's at 90% efficiency. I can tell you this, to heat my 24×32x8 shop so far this winter I've burned 74 gallons of LP. I have a meter to keep track of it. Last winter when it so warm, I burned 100 gallons the entire year.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

I wish I could bring a gas line from the street to my shop bu the cost would be around $5000.00
This winter, for the first time I tried to keep my space electric heater on t to keep the shop at around 45/50 F. 
My cost just for that is around $80.00/month 
I turned the heater off.
I use a wood stove when I am in the shop.


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## shawnmasterson (Jan 24, 2013)

I have a 26×30 well insulated detached garage.. I heat it with a side kick(wood). If I load it once in the morning it will hold 55 for 24 hours. if I want it 80 for finishing I only have to load it 3 times in a 24 hours.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

My shop is 24×30x10and also very well insulated but I have to load m,y wood stove all the time, I burn scrap wood.


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

Charlie, from an up-front investment standpoint, you're generally going to be better off going electric resistance. An electric baseboard or quartz (or other) radiant heat setup can be had (for what I assume your requirements would be) for probably $100. And electric is quiet and should be able to boost your 40-45 degree maintenance level up to a working temperature pretty quickly (and quietly). Ongoing fuel costs, however, are going to be high - just about as high as a propane or kerosene vented heater.

Systems that cost less to operate generally cost more to purchase or require much more "hands-on" maintenance (refueling), or both.

Something I'm considering for my shop is a high-efficiency ductless heat pump. I have (personally) installed two of them in my house and love them. The up-front investment is around $1,000 but they can produce heat at 1/3 the cost of electric resistance (which is what I'm replacing in my house). And they produce a/c in the summer. My concern, since they circulate/blow heated or cooled air in the room, is air filtering. I'm considering mounting the indoor unit inside a ceiling-mounted air filtration box, as I don't think the heater's standard filters would be able to handle a woodworking shop's un-pre-filtered air.

Here's where I bought mine: http://www.goductless.com/

Edit: For anything 12,000 btu and under (not sure what your 16X24 shop will require), you can use a single 110 circuit. That might be helpful.


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## SamuraiSaw (Jan 8, 2013)

@Dan,

What brand are those heaters?


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Here is the propane vs heat pump costs for my area. Note, the electric cost is taken from my bill and includes all taxes and fees, the propane does not include taxes and fees (local taxes would add about $300). Additional note, I used the price of propane as of Jan 1st, it has gone up 3 cents per gallon since.










I switched 4 years ago and in practice, the heat pump is much cheaper and requires less maintenance.


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

I would love to do a heat pump, but I question the efficiency once we're below freezing. It's 2:30 in the afternoon and we're likely at our high for the day…. 18 degrees. I think most heat pumps use what they call "emergency heat" once they get below a certain temperature and for some it's as high as 37 degrees. Right now I'm not likely to see 37 degrees for another week and then probably only briefly. I have Mitsubishi splits in the house. We originally installed them to get some air conditioning as we have hot water baseboard heat in the house and no ductwork. And while they work WONDERFULLY as air conditioners, I was surprised to find they also provide heat!

I'd have to look up the specs again but I think in heating mode they are CAPABLE of providing heat down to about 17 or 20 degrees, but their efficiency drops off markedly around 30 if I remember right. We spend an awful lot of time below 30 here and I'd hate to spend a grand or more on a unit only to find it can't provide heat when I need it.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

As for efficiency, "dropping off" to a heat pump means approaching 100% which is the worst case scenario; but even at only 100% it's still cheaper than propane. The only time my emergency heat has kicked on is in the low 20's (not very often here in Raleigh). In NY it might be too cold for a heat pump, they do have limits I imagine.


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

The ductless heat pumps do not have auxiliary (electric resistance) heat.

I have one 12,000 btu Grunaire system that produces heat (at very near the 12,000 btu rating) down to an outside temp of +14F. That's certainly good enough for my detached shop, as I currently run a kerosene salamander out there (yes, they're noisy) plus a couple of kerosene space heaters. I wouldn't get rid of those, knowing that we have at least a couple of days each winter (central Indiana) that fall below 14 degrees.

My other ductless heat pump is a 12,000 btu Mitsubishi that produces heat (again, at very near 12,000 btu) down to an outside temp of -17F. I have that in our living room and plan on installing another one (again, to replace electric baseboard) in our kitchen/utility area where most of the plumbing lines run.

We haven't had outside temps lower than -5 since I put in the Mitsubishi, and I can say that it did fine down to that level. I'm kind of hoping for some -17 or -18 temps so I can observe how the thing behaves.


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## RonInOhio (Jul 23, 2010)

As for heat pumps. If you guys are talking about geothermal furnace with resistance heating. A friend of mine has it. Not sure if the ductless ones are the same animal or not but….
Geo-thermal is expensive to repair. And only a few places around here are certified or even qualified to fix them or do maintenance on them.. My friend paid over 2000 to have a compressor replaced. Couldn't just replace just the motor. Has to be replaced as a unit. An all day job and labor cost is expensive on these type of repairs.

Also of note. They had to wait a week for the parts and ran the furnace off of resistance heating during that time.

In the chart above that Rick posted…..is that showing 180% effficency for the heat pump ?

But on point. Any comparisons that are made for fairness sake, should be done comparing apples
to apples. A heat pump furnace will definitely be more efficent than a baseboard or vented propane
space heater.And yes, it is more efficent than a propane furnace. As a propane furnace will be more efficent than a space heater, be it electric or propane.

Having rambled on though, I use some kerosene space heaters. The kerosene is expensive. I also have a few oil filled electric heaters which I haven't tried yet cause haven't got insulation in yet. If I were to install "permanent" heating in my small 10×18 shop , I probably would go with those 220 volt radiant electric heaters if the oil-filled 120 volt ones don't do the job.

In the end the best solution will depend upon what weather zone you live in. One may be fine for milder southern climates but not effective for northern weather.


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## rockindavan (Mar 8, 2011)

I wish I could go electric but lack the power to do so as it is a rental. With an uninsulated one car between radiant propane and forced air I average about one 20lb tank every two days at $20 per tank. It sucks but its not worth investing to make it better as I will likely move in the next few months.


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

Ron, I saw the 180% thing, too. I've never seen it stated that way, but I think it ties back to the HSPF (Heating Seasonal Performance Factor) rating of the heat pump.

From what I understand, electric resistance has an HSPF rating of about 3.4. So a heat pump with an HSPF rating of 6.12 would be 1.8 times (or 180%) more efficient than electric resistance.

The ductless systems typically carry HSPF ratings of around 10 (my Mitsubishi is 10.55), so, if I'm interpreting Rick's chart correctly, those would have a "Heater Efficiency %" of around 300%. That's why I stated in my first post that they produce heat at about 1/3 the cost of electric resistance.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

As a propane furnace will be more efficent than a space heater, be it electric or propane.

In what sense?


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## RonInOhio (Jul 23, 2010)

In terms of cost per million btus. For a 78% eff. propane furnace vs. 100% eff. electric baseboard.

But the cost difference isn't very significant in that example admittedly. 
Propane cost for million BTUs. 33.67
Electric cost for million BTUS 35.26

And it depends on

what one pays for propane or unit of electrical heat. I used the median average.

Using efficency probably not the best way I could of put it either. Since electric heaters are 
100% efficient.


Just a sidenote: The fracking boom has made natural gas a real player these days. The same million BTUs for gas furnace cost = 14.00
gas vented room heater= 17.66
gas unvented room heater = 11.48

electric geothermal heat pump furnace =10.68
electric air source heat pump =14.67


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Propane cost for million BTUs. 33.67
Electric cost for million BTUS 35.26

I get these numbers using the same calculator as before but removing ducting efficiency (taxes not included):
Propane: $36.06 
Electric baseboard: $28.13

http://www.energyexperts.org/calculatorstools/Heatingcostcalculator.aspx

Here's another that compares several at the same time:
http://www.travisindustries.com/CostOfHeating_WkSht.asp

Natural gas is dirt cheap but not available everywhere.


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## realcowtown_eric (Feb 4, 2013)

I use a 3 car garage at a rental property and reimburse the tenant for utility costs.

leave the shop, thermostat (gas furnace) is turned down to bottom. all electrics (battery chargers, etc turned off)

I use an electrical energy monitor om the fuse box to calc cost of electricity 
and a timer on the furnace to monitor time running ( checked it out in the suumer with the furnace turned onto calculate CF consumption.

Turn down the furnace, it typically comes on at 2am for a few minutes and then shuts off.

Wintertime consumption, in two years max conusmption has been 45 Elec/ 30$ nautural gas in -20ish weather.-but thats actual consumption, not ancilliary distribution costs, which would likely double that if it was a stand alone installation.

2×4 walls, R40 in the ceiling. Energy is an ongoing cost, it's foolish not to try and attenuate it.Otherwise the hands just reach deeper into yer pocket.

And I keep watching solar solutions get cheaper and cheaper. At some point the cost of a solar powered overnight heating system willl be rational. Just to keep the shop from freezing the water (ie non-solvent 
)based materials.

I used to use a wood stove in another situation, but I never will leave a wood fire unattended, and that was a drag! I couldn't un off to town to pick up bits and pieces. Others would, but not me. Call me stupid….

Eric in Calgary


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