# having issues with the stain on maple



## wlandymore (Sep 4, 2013)

Hey guys,

I have a maple table top that I'm working on and after reading a lot about the issues with maple I did the following:

finished up to 220 grit sandpaper
applied a wood conditioner to the table top
20 minutes later applied a gel stain to it

However the results are pretty bad in my opinion. I'm wondering what I can do now that the stain has been put on. Is there any way that I can sand it with something higher like 320 and then apply another layer of stain, or maybe even another layer of stain right over the other one?

I've never finished maple before but I felt like I read a lot about how to battle the blochy-ness of it, but without success. Is there any way to save this table top and make it look good now?


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Salvaging after the fact can be difficult , however we will see what we can do .Any chance of getting a photo and the exact products you used. Time can also be an issue, If the products have dried they can be much more difficult to remove easily and effectively .


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## wlandymore (Sep 4, 2013)

Yeah, I took a couple of pictures. one of the pre-stain conditioner and gel stain that I used, and the other of the table top. I would like to think that there is something I can do at this point besides taking 80.00 worth of maple and heaving it in the garbage…


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Ok, this is going to sound a little drastic, but take some lacquer thinner and wash as much off of it as possible, you will need to get it wet , let it soak a bit then clean it off. Of course be care ful, lacquer thinner is quite flammable and be sure to wear gloves and a respirator, and have plenty of ventilation , you dont want the fumes getting in your house. Then show us what you have and we will go from there, but I think we can save it.


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## keninblaine (Jan 5, 2014)

Is there any reason you can't sand off the surface, or is the veneer too thin? I have a similar issue with maple plywood and have carefully sanded off the stained surface and am experimenting with using toner plus stain as recommended by the cabinet maker that made the other cabinets in my house that I'm trying to match.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

First mistake? Using a MinWax product.
I'd wash it down as best ya can with a solvent, use a wash coat of shellac, dye for color.
Bill


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

You can sand it off but with the Gel stain and the oil Pre-stain, ( BLO & mineral spirits) , It will probably be pretty gummy unless allowed to dry for a week or so and even then it's still a mess. Washing off as much as possible with the thinner, will pull as much off as possible as well as dry what remains. Hopefully we will get back to a clean enough surface to redo , or at least get to a surface much easier to sand.

I have to agree with Bill , Minwax has some decent products,but these are not amoung them.


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## wlandymore (Sep 4, 2013)

I know. I didn't want to but there are so few options around me I figured it probably wouldn't be that big a deal. Guess it was…


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

I've used a few brands of gel stain, and minwax is the worst. General Finishes a lot better. I'd look into Charles Neil conditioner. That being said, I think Maple looks great with just Arm-R-Seal on it, but it would be a lot lighter, of course.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

I know it is after the fact - but you really wanted to DYE the maple not Stain it.

Differnce - the dye penetrates, while stain sits in the scratches.
you sanded to 220 then sealed the grain with the conditioner - - so the stain doesn't really work so well, as there is nowhere for the 'grains' of pigment to go.

use a NGR Dye (non grain raising) I find a trigger plant spray bottle works great.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

As I recall, General Finishes recommends only sanding to 120 for their Gel Stain.


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## wlandymore (Sep 4, 2013)

I've seen so many things recommending what grit to go to. Some were saying no more than 120, some up to 150 or 220, I even saw a few that said 320! The unfortunate part about the internet is that there is tons of bad information with the good.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

Yes, there is. This is what GF says:

USE: Interior and Exterior 
COLORS: American Oak, Antique Walnut, Brown, Mahogany, Candelite, Colonial Maple, Georgian Cherry, Golden Pine, Java, New Pine, Nutmeg, Prairie Wheat. 
ALWAYS test color on hidden area to make sure it is what you want.
SHEEN: Satin.
SANDING: 120-150 grit on bare wood. It is optional to sand stains before topcoating.
COATS: Normally 1-2 (additional coats can be applied to deepen color).
RECOAT/DRY TIME: 6-12 hours under ideal conditions (70° and 70% humidity).
CURE TIME: Cure time for all General Finishes products is about 14 days. 
APPLICATION METHOD: Wipe on, natural bristle brush, foam brush, or paint pad applicator.
TOPCOAT: Use Gel Satin Topcoat or Arm-R-Seal.


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## wlandymore (Sep 4, 2013)

No, I wasn't saying that there wasn't good information out there, heck, that's why I'm here.  I was merely saying that it can be tough for the novice to know what to trust where there are many conflicting opinions out there.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Wlandymore.. I couldn't agree more.. but I can assure you , I know how to handle this . I do woodworking for a living, and have finished a few pieces in 40+ years . We just need to go one step at a time.

In as much as sanding goes, here is an excerpt from my book that Apollo used in their newsletter, as we speak the "read more" link doesn't work but they are correcting it . http://www.thefinishingstore.com/newsletter-144/
it may answer some of your questions , scroll down its the "sanding can make a difference thing" .I will further say, if your looking for a super quick magical finish, it doesn't exist, finishing like woodworking requires some knowledge and effort. Sorry to break the news !


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

CharlesA ,

Stay tuned  ..I am a huge GF fan , but..well let just say " This will be interesting " , and hopefully helpful to many .

Ps thanks for the CN Blotch plug, and it will probably be the answer, but thats not my goal here. I want to get this guy out of trouble .

DRdirt.. You on the right track , definately .


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## wlandymore (Sep 4, 2013)

Thanks a lot for all the useful tips guys. I'll let you know what happens to this project after I switch to oak. 

I'll give the advice a shot and see if I can make something out of the maple first


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## wlandymore (Sep 4, 2013)

Just an update on this one…

I used the lacquer thinner and poured it on the table top and then got as much off as I could. It definitely didn't get it all, but it did make a big difference. Then I sanded it (a lot) and because of the sanding I decided to put on the frame on the outside. I attached a picture of it now. The slightly darker shade on the left edge is just water after I wiped it down there. 










Still, quite a difference. Thanks for all the help. Now I just have to have the guts to try dying it.

I did have a question about this though. I was 'planning' on dying the 4 1×6 boards the dark color but leaving the edge frame without a color on it table top edge, and then dying that the same color on the sides of the edge pieces. Basically so you have that blonde 'frame' around the dark table top. However, I don't want to have the dye that I'll have to put on the center boards bleeding into the frame edge. Has anyone tried something like this before and do you have any tips on how to keep the color separate?

I was thinking about something like painters tape on the edge before I dye the center but I'm worried about it getting under the tape. Normally I would have finished the pieces separately and then glued and clamped after, but I was forced to put the edge on first because I wanted to be sure that there were no changes to the shape after all that sanding.


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