# How to bend wood without a steamer?



## shifthappy6

Hi, 
Im new here but am a 32yr journeyman carpenter and woowoker. I am working on an old buffet, turning it into a kitchen island. My problem is the base around the bottom was less than stellar and needed to be replaced, the issue is that on the center front there is a simi round portion! (If pics will help i can try and post some) and I'm having trouble trying to bend thie 3/4×6 inch base that I bought to replace it. It is about a 32 inch radius and I need about a quarter of that radius. I do not have accesess to a steamer nor do I have the disire to try and make one that i'll never use again. this base is fairley detailed so i dont think I can make relief cuts in the back deep enough to do any good. So if anybody has suggestions I'm open, please feel free.
Thanks
Jim

BTW, if it makes any difference the wood i am trying to bend is Alder I think ;(


----------



## sprucegum

Not a clue how to bend without steam or relief cuts but I have rigged up a steamer in the past using a metal 5 gallon bucket and the gas burner from my turkey fryer. All you really need is boiling water and a way to pipe the steam into a wooden steam box. I used a bucket that had a cover, I simply cut a hole in the cover the size I wanted and placed the steam box on top. It was a long box so I made the steam come into the center and supported the ends with sawhorses. Some folks use stove pipe or old furnace duct for the steam box. Sorry I have no pictures it was a one shot deal to bend some shafts for a one hoss sleigh. Like you steam bending was not something I wanted to do a lot of but the time and money to rig up a steamer this way is minimal.


----------



## kdc68

Without knowing exactly what it is your trying to do, I suggest you look into this option…..Thin strip lamination. Build a form to the shape you want out of MDF. Make your thin strips extra long and wider than finished size. Apply glue to all layers and stack together like the layers of plywood. Apply to the form and start in the center and work out to the ends. You will need lots of clamps. The pieces will slip and slide some, but they are oversized so no worries there. Let cure for at least 24 hours before removing clamps. Cut to finished size afer the 24 hour dry time


----------



## pwalter

I know you said you don't have any desire to make a steam box. But a lot are just made out of PVC pipe with the ends capped off. It would literally take you 10 minutes. Any I am sure somewhere down the line you could reuse the PVC pipe. Just a suggestion.


----------



## Moai

make a plywood or MDF form with a tighter radio, because after gluing up several layers of 1/8" of an inch, they are going to spring off about 25%.

I hope that helps.


----------



## JesseTutt

I have no experience with steam bending outside of taking a couple of classes. Both classes recommended air dried wood as easier to bend.


----------



## renners

Make a form and and do a bent lamination, as kdc suggests. Probably the easiest thing to do.


----------



## Finn

I have made a form and did bent laminations using 3/16" thick straight grained oak. I soak the oak strips for 24 hours or more in water and run hot tap water over them to warm them up just before applying yellow glue and lots of clamping together to the frame. Remove from the frame after dry, this takes about 3 days…. in my experience.


----------



## Loren

I think maybe he is trying to bend a fancy moulding.


----------



## shifthappy6

Thanks for all the quick responses, unfortunately I can not laminate do to the piece I'm use already has a detailed face. I have however built a form to wrap it around, tried soaking for several days! Did nothing at all to soften it up so it looks like I will be steaming after all. I do have a turkey fryer so I hope this works, I just have to make a new lid for it as I don't want to cut a hole in this one  how long should something like this steam? And then how long do I have to work with it before it starts getting hard again?


----------



## shifthappy6

Thank you Loren, that is exactly what I am trying to do!


----------



## a1Jim

Some woods do not bend well. soaking in hot water and or steaming should work in a couple hours max depending on the thickness of the piece your working on. I think a photo would help. It might be something you just have to make a new piece for.


----------



## Loren

How big a bend, again?

You said 32" radius, which is a doable bend. Then
you said 1/4 of that, which is an 8" radius - which is a
pronounced bend you will not succeed with.

You can make a shallow steam bend just using muscle
to get it on a curved form.


----------



## a1Jim

I don't know if you have seen these?

http://www.tai-workshop.com/english/tech-2(b)-e.html


----------



## DS

IT will take heat to get this thing bent…
The form is a good idea. I would also consider a metal strap clamped along the outside face to prevent expansion along the outside face. (flashing will work-clamped on the ends)

If you wet the piece and heat it with a heat gun as you add clamps to your form you should have good results.


----------



## Cosmicsniper

I would saw kerfs into the back of the moulding and bend it. If the kerfs show at the top of the moulding, I'd bend a small piece of trim (or trim segments) to cap it. By using segments of the trim, you should be able to soak them, heat them to about 400 degrees in an oven, and then bend them in place over the work. Tape them down until dry, then glue down.

Look at the bindings in a guitar to see the principle of a kerfed binding.


----------



## higtron

I've acually had to do this I used a table saw it took two pieces of base to achieve. I ripped 1/3 off the front and back of first piece of base board, beacause of the kerf you can't get the last 1/3 out of the first piece so you'll need a second piece of base to get the middle rip out of, now you bend the first piece around nailing it on as you go making a pleaseing bend add a small amout of glue between the first, and second piece so as to not have any squeeze out bend , and nail this middle piece off makeing a pleaseing bend repeat for last piece. I had some touch up stain it wasn't perfect, but you had to look really close to see it ws three rips.


----------



## sprucegum

Something I did not think of this morning in my first reply. I remember hearing old timers talk about warping wood around a hot iron. I am clueless how the process works or how hot. Perhaps someone else has knowledge of this process or you could just experiment with some scraps.


----------



## Loren

Hot pipe bending only works on stock up to about 1/4" 
thick though mild bends can be coaxed into wood up
to about 3/8" I suppose.

It is actually heat that plasticizes wood more than 
moisture. If wood is too wet when heat bending
is tried, it can fail.


----------



## Cosmicsniper

Sprucegum - That method is the traditional way of bending the sides of guitar and violins and stuff. They are typically about 1/8" thick, which is why the method works. Now many luthiers use a side bending jig that clamps the side (or rib) against a silicone-rubber heated blanket. I recently built one myself. Works great. By the time the temp controller gets over 300 degrees or so, the wet wood is so pliable that it bends without resistance to the right shape. Once in place, you let the wood dry for maybe 15 minutes longer under heat and then keep it clamped up over night. By that time, there is no springback in the wood.

I have not experimented with thicker stock, but as Loren said, something up to around 3/8" does seem possible.


----------



## dhazelton

Remember that the wood has a memory and you will have to OVERbend it so it will spring back to the shape you want. A tight bend in 3/4 inch material with no relief cuts or lamination is probably undoable. Do you have a plan B? There are rubber or fiberglass moldings out there - you could do the entire front of the piece in that and faux finish to match the rest of the wood. Only other thing I can thing of is make a curved piece, run it through a shaper with custom bit and put that in place. $$$


----------



## TCCcabinetmaker

I think pictures will help, I can help you but need to see what you're doing so I can give you the correct advise.


----------



## Loren

Unless the client was mad to pay the costs of doing
the bend in wood, I would probably use plastic 
type mouldings that bend easily and get a faux 
artist to grain the moulding.


----------



## Jeff28078

I made my own steamer with a length of 4" ABS, capped at both ends and a wall paper steamer. If you have a long time frame you could use the greenhouse effect by tenting the wood in black plastic bags with a little water out in the sun. Bend it a very little each day until you get the shape you want. It might take a month. I'd go with a steamer.


----------



## runswithscissors

I have used heat a lot for bending wood. Heat without moisture. I use a heat gun or infra red paint stripper that runs on propane. If you use a heat gun, be careful of scorching. It is highly advisable to use a bending strap (flexible, thin steel, such as banding used for big piles of stuff like lumber). You clamp the bending strap/material sandwich at both ends (one end in a vise, the other end with a husky C clamp), heat, and gradually apply pressure. Over bend somewhat to account for springback. Once bent, it only needs to cool for a couple of minutes before your bend is set. If you bend too far, you may have to reapply heat to unbend it.

Am I right in guessing that you need about 1/4 of the arc formed by a 32" radius?

But there are some difficulties with your project that make this approach problematic. The main problem is the alder. I simply have no experience with alder, and can't say whether it is bendable. Having an existing profile on it may create some difficulties too. I did successfully use this method to straighten out a piece of oak crown that looked like a ski (I got it cheap because nobody else wanted it). Straightening and bending use exactly the same principles, as the grain structure is actually altered (more or less permanently) when you bend with heat.

I do have another idea, though. Laminate as others have suggested, but not with your profiled wood. Use straight pieces instead. When the glue is set, take it to a mill and have the profile molded in there. You might even find a router bit or shaper cutter that would allow you to cut your own.


----------



## kdc68

*shifthappy* - I read your response. The thin strip lamination idea I gave early on prob won't work….The next option would be steam bending. As *a1Jim suggests *a couple of hours of steaming would probably do the trick. Those PVC steamers work good. Once steamed, you have a short window of time to get it into the form. Once it begins to cool down, bending will be difficult. And you will run the risk of the piece splintering . Work fast. Get your clamps ready. Have a helper because it will take four hands to get it into the form and clamped. I have no experience in bending alder. You might try using a scrap piece of alder (if you have any) and do a trial run in the steamer and bending it into the form. You will know right away if it will work or not because it may splinter or break on you. As other suggested, once cured and taken out of the form it will spring back some. So make your form to accommodate that….Good luck with it !


----------



## shifthappy6

I really appreciate all the responses. In this case though it looks like the only thing that will work is steaming, since the piece already has a profile. I have some iPhone pics ( I know you guys don't like phone pics, but I'm a carpenter not a photographer) so maybe this will help bring some order to all this chaos.!








!


----------



## Loren

Oh, you could kerf it with an angled fixture on a table
saw. Angle the fixture at like 10 degrees off flat
so the kerf hits 3/32" behind the 2 end points.

Honestly, making the jig and kerfing that moulding 
would take less than an hour… less time than fussing
with setting up a steamer (if you don't have one)
and making a forming/drying mold is more time
intensive project.


----------



## JGM0658

You might not need to steam bend it, the piece is short enough that you can find a vessel big enough to put it in hot water with fabric softener. Put 12 parts of water for 1 part of softener in water that you have brought to boil and let stand for a few minutes, let it soak for about an hour keeping the water hot (not boiling) and try bending it.


----------



## Loren

I used to fool around with steaming barrel forms
(I was making conga drums many years ago) and
I would put a "hot pot" (tea water boiler) under
a plastic milk crate and put the work I wanted
to steam (under 30") under a trash can balanced
on top of the crate.

The method melted the bottom of the crate
and got tannins all over the hot pot but it
did make the wood in the can pliable and was
quick and cheap to set up.


----------



## dhazelton

People would normally build that molding profile up in separate elements, not one solid piece as you are doing. Or they might have used MDF. Anyway, if that's a black painted finish you could make relief cuts along the whole length and just use filler along the exposed top edge afterwards. Or add another little strip of wood to the top of that profile to hide the relief cuts.

I also think you'll have to remove the molding you already have on there. You need to split that meeting angle in half and miter both pieces otherwise those profiles won't meet on the same plane.


----------



## RogerInColorado

When you do decide what to do, I hope you post that as well as the result. I'd like to know how this story ends.


----------



## TCCcabinetmaker

OK, in this scenario, set up a dado set on the old table saw. Put some dados in the back of the board like in the middle of the top profile, the bottom a few seperate swipes. What this does is remove some of the wood that you are trying to bend. Leave the wood fat where you are going to attach it, as you will need the meet for the fasteners.

Next take an iron, yes like the type you iron clothes with, and steam the wood.. You will want to do this on the middle section where the arch appears only. next glue the board where its going to go, fasten, then clamp one end of the board, work your way around the arch fastening and clamping as you go.

I've had to do this on a jobsite without the iron on harder archs, so this method should work simply enough for you in a shop setting.


----------



## roman

know your limits

everything else is easy










laminations require little imagination










think fresh


----------



## NGK

I didnt take time to read all the above posts, but kdc68 is on the right track. Cut strips about 1/8 to 3/16ths in thickness. You can bend them to that radius without splitting. Right, you don't need a STEAM box. You could cut them slightly thicker and BOIL them, then holding them in the approximate curve until they dry. Then with pegs or a "form" apply glue and clamp. Expect a tiny bit of "spring-back". Hardwoods such as oak or ash are better than the softer woods.


----------



## shifthappy6

Ok, here's the latest. I have decided to build a steamer! I purchased my mat. yesterday and will begine putting all the parts together after work today. I will take pics during the process and let you know how it turns out. I don' have the clamps I need to do this so I'm hoping that I can do it with ratchet straps (tie downs) any thoughts? 
Thanks 
Jim


----------



## runswithscissors

Whatever material you build it out of (metal? Wood? I fear plastic might be problematic because of the heat), don't make it airtight. If you do, you will have created a bomb.

In bending a shape like the one your show in the photo, start with material considerably longer than you want to end up with. Otherwise, you won't be able to maintain the arc all the way to the ends. Cut the ends off after cooling.


----------



## kdc68

*shifthappy* - Can't say for sure if ratchet straps would work….never tried it that way…Hope someone else replies that can answer that question….My take is your gonna need clamps for either this or future woodworking projects…..Good luck with it


----------



## shifthappy6

Forgot to mention! I made a slight error identifing the wood, it is not Alder as stated in my first post it is Poplar. I hope this doesn't make to much of a difference in some of the answers given. I am making it out of sheetmetal. The steamer that is. 

Thanks
Jim


----------



## RogerInColorado

Well, I think poplar is good news. I've soaked alder into a 54" radius curve, but it was made up of six pieces 1/8" thick. It was doable and the result was good, but I an tell you that three pieces 1/4 inch thick was less cooperative and that's why I had to do it over with twice as many thinner pieces. I think poplar has a bit more of a natural capability to bend but I don't have a scientific or empirical basis for my statement, just something I read somewhere. I don't know if a thick piece will steam and bend to your radius.

If you are painting the trim piece, perhaps your client would give consideration to a molding of your own concoction that would allow you to bend a laminated form and then do the edge treatment on a router table. I've done that and after the initial "what have I gotten myself into" worrying jag, things went very well. By the way, I used a urethane glue, and I got so little spring back that I probably couldn't have measured it with feeler gages between the part and the form.


----------



## shifthappy6

I am married to my client and that is the moulding of her choice! Need I say more?


----------



## shifthappy6

Ok, here is my steamer so far! I still need to make the end caps and put a vent in it. I don't think I have to worry about a drain as I think the mouth of the unit is enough to let the condensation run back down?


----------



## RussellAP

I wonder if you could get some matching veneer and use a BS to trim off the relief design to something that could be glued on the curved form after you make a laminated form and veneer it. If the relief is an outie it would be doable, however if the relief is an innie your screwed with this idea.
I didn't see the steamer you made. Consider resawing the relief to something easier to bend.


----------



## kdc68

shifthappy….quite creative…keep us posted


----------



## shifthappy6

I'm hoping to give it a go this weekend! Not sure how long I should steam it though? Or if i need to relief cut it since i am steaming it? If I do cut it should i start in the center a angle my blade the direction of the bend on each side? To make it easier.


----------



## runswithscissors

A vent is a good idea if you duct tape the end caps on. There is a good chance, though, that they will leak enough that you won't need to do that. I do believe you will get much better performance out of this if you insulate the sheet metal, because it's heat, not moisture, that will let you bend the wood. Bare sheet metal will let your heat radiate away pretty fast. I assume that's why a lot of boatbuilders just make the box out of wood, as it has good insulating properties inherently. Maybe aluminum foil covered urethane foam panels?


----------



## kdc68

shiphappy…I would say an 1-1/2 or 2 hours should do it….not sure about the angled relief cut idea and steamng both…might be redundant….Got some scrap to experiment ?


----------



## RussellAP

They make a roll of foil adhesive insulation you can use. One bag should work. 
I'm just a bit skeptical that you have the necessary wherewithal to bend something 3/4 inch thick. This is going to take a very strong form and some very heavy clamps and lots of help. I'd resaw the form to two 3/8 inch pieces which will be a breeze to bend.


----------



## kdc68

shifthappy not shiphappy….sorry…lol


----------



## shifthappy6

That's ok as long as it wasn't shi*happy. LOL!!


----------



## kdc68

*RussellAP*...agreed for sure….I and others said lots of clamps and at least 4 hands….I suggested early on with thin strip lamination…your 3/8" idea should work..I thought at least that thin myself or thinner….but shifthappy wants to try a 3/4 piece thats profiled…not sure how that will work….any bending experience I have done the details came after it was bent….I am gonna follow his progress….Good luck shifthappy


----------



## shifthappy6

As far as the insulation goes I was planning on covering it with 1inch Polystyrene! Garage door insulation from Home Depot.


----------



## shifthappy6

No camps and no extra hands! Hoping to get it done with a 4inch ratchet strap?


----------



## kdc68

Shifthappy - Again not sure about the 4" ratchet strap…my suggestion would be better ratchet it up quick because you won't have that long before the wood cools down and will make it hard to bend


----------



## Gshepherd

There is a lot of great info already posted and so many diffrent ways to do this so I will throw my 2 cents in worth.

By looking at the profile, you plane the back side to thin it up some, That profile should lay flat and I would use a planer or drum sander, secure your moulding on another flat board, this keeps the roller pressure from denting the top of the profile where it is curved. Thin Kerf blade and cut it just where the profile stops and it goes flat.

Put some relief cuts on the back, make some thin strips and build up again on the chest where you can put a few small brads to make the nice blend. A Thin strip on top to cover up the kerf cut marks, or fill in if it is paint grade. Being poplar it should bend just fine without to much fuss. I have made lots of profiled casing in poplar and Alder but it is usually laminated thin strips on a bending form for a blank then ran through a W&H moulder. Get a piece of poplar scrap and thin it to at least 1/2 thick and see how it bends and you should be just fine.

Hope I made scense here and what ever you do works for you and you let us know what you did.


----------



## kdc68

*Gshepherd*- great advice….guess we will see what happens


----------



## RussellAP

If what you have is actually alder, here is some info you might find useful. Says its good wood for bending because it's used a lot in the furniture industry where they bend a lot of wood for frames.

http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/alder/alder%20fact%20sheet.htm

Still a ratchet strap is a dubious thing to use. You are going to be dealing with a lot of tension and it sounds pretty dangerous.


----------



## shifthappy6

I am overwhelmed by the amount of response I have gotten from you guys! All the suggestions have been great and I don't think I would have made it his far without you!

Thanks again,
And I will keep you posted!


----------



## kdc68

*RussellAP* - I think he stated later on in this forum that it is poplar….agreed on ratchet strap


----------



## shifthappy6

Well here is the finished steam box! I'll find out tomorrow if it works.


----------



## RussellAP

That's a nice box. You should share the plans one day.


----------



## shifthappy6

Can't! There in my head  made it up as I went along!


----------



## kdc68

shifthappy - you certainly put a lot of thought into your steamer….if it works as good as it looks you'll be set


----------



## sprucegum

Geez I suggested a turkey cooker, old metal 5 gallon bucket, a box made out of scrap wood, and a couple of saw horses and look what you did. Dam nice looking steamer for a guy that only wanted to bend one piece of wood looks like you may get into wood bending big time.


----------



## shifthappy6

Well it's done. Had to steam he damn thing 6 hrs but here is the result!


----------



## runswithscissors

Looks good. I'll bet you're relieved that's done.


----------



## kdc68

*WOW*....looks fantastic *shifthappy* !!...awesome job


----------



## shifthappy6

You got no idea how glad I am that this is done! Now I can get to the real project, riding!!










Oops, going to be a little hard to ride upside down


----------



## kdc68

Now that's a sweet looking bike…even up side down


----------



## shifthappy6

Thanks, like I said in my first post, not much of a photographer and u can never tell which way a pic is rotated on a iPhone


----------



## shifthappy6

I will say I was very surprised how much the piece grew in the steamer. Had to plane about 3/8 off the bottom!


----------

