# Oak species



## rilanda (Jul 2, 2012)

It is interesting to see the different uses of the Oak species. What I mean by that is it appears that the selection of the type of Oak species is controlled geographically, with our American buddies appearing to use Red Oak (Quercus Rubra) in preference to the White Oak Species (Quercus Alba). I wonder why that is and is my determination of this correct, perhaps fellow Lumberjocks would like to give some thought to this and express there opinion. My own preference is the White Oak although I find it is more difficult to work, another reason is my local timber yard do not stock the Red Oak. my absolute favorite is English Oak (several Quercus species of this including Pedunculata), even though it is extremely difficult to work the end result is very pleasing, and the smell of Oak is very pleasant to my senses. unfortunately my local timber yard does not stock English Oak, if I want that I have to find a sawmill that is converting local grown trees.


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## BrandonW (Apr 27, 2010)

I prefer white oak to red oak myself, but red oak is much more plentiful here in Georgia, which makes it cheaper than white oak.


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## NANeanderthal (Jun 2, 2011)

I think red oak is so common here in the US because its so common if that makes any sense. It grows everywhere and therefor is cheap. Where im at red oak can be had fot about the same price as popular, with white oak being everywhere from a little more to many times more based on cut. Old growth white oak feels like you trying to chisel rock, but comes out great. Store bought white oak isnt bad either. Riven air dried red oak is great to work with. If it sawn and went through a kiln it dont come in the shop.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I prefer the look of 1/4 sawn white oak but the local black oak(close to red oak) is much more affordable in my area.


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

I used to use quite a bit of red oak, but got pretty tired of the grain. When customers ask about it, I tell them that it can look pretty good but you better like a very obvious grain pattern.

It's more expensive, but I've been using white oak in more projects lately. Still have noticeable grain, but less "belligerent" than the red oak.

Just made a very contemporary bathroom vanity with inset doors and drawer fronts, and brushed nickel pulls. Customer loved the cherry sample I made, but choked on the price. Used alder instead and it's almost a perfect match - for quite a bit less money. - lol


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## Woodmaster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

I am picking up some quartersawn red oak tomorrow. I choose it over white oak because my house has red oak trim and my wife said red oak is what she wants. My next project I am going to buy quartersawn white oak so I can get an idea on which to use for my kitchen cabinets, white or red oak.


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## longgone (May 5, 2009)

I have always liked oak (especially quarter sawn) and was able to acquire about 600 bd ft of oak from a friend several years ago after a storm knocked down a bunch of trees. He has a portable sawmill and solar kiln and was able to salvage a tremendous amount of quarter sawn red and white oak and some fantastic spalted oak.
I have built a desk for my wife, a bookcase and numerous other projects from it and still have sa good bit of those special boards waiting for the right project (one will be an entertainment center for a TV..)


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

I am on a quest to try as many oak species as I can Red oak is very common/plentiful in my area (I heat my house with it). But when quarter sawn can be amazing. I recently used some live oak Dallas sent me and I loved it. Your English oaks are beautiful wood and the "bog oak" is spectacular. Australia has silky oak which is pretty special as well. I have no idea how many species of oak there are but I'm sure red oak is the most common.


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

Around here (Mississippi), the only more readily available lumber is pine. Red oak is in every lumberyard and wood supplier shop I go to. It's so cheap when compared to any other hardwood I can easily get (besides poplar) that it's going to be a no-brainer for most woodworkers in this area.

In fact, I have about 10 logs of it sitting and waiting to be cut into slabs right now.


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Like Brandon said, red is more widely available and costs less in most markets. But I would guess most people prefer the look and use of white oak. Especially QS.


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## WDHLT15 (Aug 15, 2011)

There are about 36 species of oak in Georgia, but not all of them are suitable for sawing lumber. Most of these are in the Red Oak Group. This Southern Red Oak made some really nice quarter sawn lumber.










It had to be quartered to fit my sawmill!


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

To avoid quartering is why I run a chainsaw mill. I have some 50" wide oaks waiting to be cut. The slabs they produce are awesome.

Still, I'd kill to have something like a Wood-Mizer to cut the smaller logs and quartersaw the top and bottom 1/3 of each log I cut.


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## BrandonW (Apr 27, 2010)

WDHLT15, I have a few really tall water oaks in the back yard. I know they're in the red oak family, but I wonder if that species is good for lumber. Thought you'd know.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

What we call water oak (small rounder leaf), is very white in color and quite soft compared to our typical red or white oak.


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## WDHLT15 (Aug 15, 2011)

Brandon,

Water oak makes very nice lumber. The heartwood is not as red as say northern red oak or cherrybark oak. However, anatomically, all the oaks from the red oak group are indistinguishable. When you buy red oak lumber, you could be getting water oak or any number of red oak species, especially from a Sawmill in the South. There are many fewer red oaks in the North. The two most common are northern red oak and black oak. The growth rate and lack of defect has as much to do with quality as species.

The best quality red oak in the deep South is cherrybark oak. Water oak grown in the bottomlands and river swamps can be very fine trees. When I get back to the other computer, I will post a few pics if anyone is interested. I hunt for Champion Trees, and I love to walk the woods.


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## rilanda (Jul 2, 2012)

You guys in America and the tropics have such a wide variety of local grown timber to choose from I am positively envious. Here in England most timbers in my local timber yard are imported and the number of different species are dwindling in number. Tropical timbers are becoming more difficult to obtain and what is available is expensive to buy. So I have over the last few years decided where possible to limit my use of timber to temperate region hardwoods and softwoods. But this limits choice, Oak, Ash, Elm, Beech, Chestnut, London Plane (Lace wood), Sycamore and Maple, however even some of these are now becoming more difficult to find, a couple of years ago my local hardwood merchant stopped selling, Maple and Elm. What is so annoying is to see absolutely beautiful pieces of lumber being put through a shredder to reduce them to chippings, the reasons given is economics, it would cost more to convert to lumber than chipping, my local authority prefer this solution. I have over the past few years however managed to find a nice log of Laburnum which I am slowly drying naturally, and a good sized log of Lace wood which I am spalting. One of my favorites for Turning was Pitch Pine, the last time I managed to obtain some of this beautiful timber was about 25 years ago and that was a short length of an old beam taken out of a very old building that was being demolished. At some time I will post that piece of Treen on this site.

regards to all you good buddies

Bill


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

*gfadvm* and *WDHLT15*, it's funny b/c what we call water oak has nothing like a red oak grain pattern and is actually a chocolately color when dried. I'll try and post up a picture later today to show you what I'm talking about.


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

*rilanda*, yes, we do have a lot of trees open for use here in the States. We too have envy of other parts of the world as well because we do not have everything here. Red oak and a lot of the pine species are readily available here. In the Southeastern US, we have so many pine trees that it's like a weed.

For *gfadvm* and *WDHLT15*, here are the pictures of what we call water oak around here (1' diameter blanks cut from spare slabs):


















Both just have some Danish oil on them. I have about 12 logs worth of this stuff sitting around.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

I'll try to take a pic of a live tree that people here call 'water oak'. My guess is it is something else.I don't have any cut wood as it all went in the stove.


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## WDHLT15 (Aug 15, 2011)

Doss, that sure does look like sweetgum to me! Do you have leaves, and are they star shaped? That is definitely not a typical oak.

Here is a pic of a nice water oak, Quercus *************************, from the river swamp. This one is about 3 feet in diameter.


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## BrandonW (Apr 27, 2010)

Yup, I have several that look exactly like the one WDHLT15 posted. The wood looks just like other red oak woods, at least from what I've used from the bigger branches.


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

*WDHLT15*, when I got there, the tree limbs and leaves had already been hauled off. The owner said it was a water oak. My lumber transporter (has a boom truck to move stuff to my site) said it looked like sweetgum. I had 2-3 other guys say it looked like water oak. So, I'm on that side right now. I'll add you to the sweetgum camp.

I'm not 100% sure what it is b/c I don't have the leaves and that is definitely one of the easier way to tell (as you seem to have mentioned).


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## WDHLT15 (Aug 15, 2011)

Doss,

Oak is ring porous and sweetgum is diffuse porous. The end grain is night and day different. If it is oak, there will be a ring of large earlywood pores and a ring of smaller dense latewood pores. This is what give oak the cathedral grain. Also, oak has large rays distinctly visible to the naked eye. Sweetgum does not have two sizes of pores in an annual growth ring. The pores are very small and the same size throughout the growth ring. The grain is plain. The rays are not distinctly visible to the naked eye.

Look at the end grain. That will tell the tale.


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm going to side with you *WDHLT15*. But I will say, that's just what some of the guys call water oak around here (regardless if that is actually the name or not).


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## WDHLT15 (Aug 15, 2011)

Doss,

Many local common names can be misleading, for sure. As is evident from your pictures, heart sweetgum is beautiful. However, it is difficult to dry straight because sweetgum has spiral grain, like elm. That makes it a bear to split!


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

You're absolutely correct on pretty much all those statements. I have a few slabs of it (30-42" wide x 10-14' long) that are drying. The split down the middle mostly (check). But, the still are beautiful and pretty hard once dry. I have some smaller blanks that are about 10% sitting in my house right now and I can't wait to make something with them.


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