# Restored vintage Skil 77 worm drive saw



## BreeStephany (Jun 1, 2012)

My most recent of restorations, a vintage blue label Skil 77 7-1/4" worm drive saw, era 1942~1948. Everything says that the saw is 1942, however, the guard lever was generally not found until the end of the blue label series / beginning of the first generation black & orange label saws (1950's). It is likely that the guard is not original to the saw because of this.

When I got the saw, it was in pretty rough shape.

*Before*



































































































*Disassembling*

















I let all of the screws, bolts and other fasteners soak in solvent overnight to get the HEAVY grease off and then took all of the fastener heads to the wire wheel a bit to shine them up. Those fasteners that were badly damaged were replaced with period fasteners.









Upon getting the saw, there was a fair amount of excess noise coming from the motor. Upon disassembling the saw, I found that both the front and back armature bearings were HEAVILY worn to the point that when I attempted to remove them, most of the ball bearings just fell out. The front armature bearing had actually eaten the retention ring and was partially seized, but despite all of this, the worm gear and brass drive gear were unphased and seemed virtually brand new.









front armature bearing 








front armature bearing 

















prepping for paint. I thoroughly cleaned the parts with solvent and a toothbrush inside and out, then took them to the wire wheel and stripped off all of the oil paint and exterior grime and then went over them again with solvent to pull any oil out of them.






















































2 coats of primer, 2 coats of paint and a coat of clear coat later

*Finished*








I replaced the bearings and brushes on the saw, cleaned the seals up and added a very LIGHT coat of rtv gasket maker, put everything back together and filled it up with oil. The brushes needed a bit of adjustment, but outside of that, everything worked wonderfully.

I generally put a standard 4' 6" cord on all of my tools because I always have an extension cord whether I go out on a project or am working around the shop and hate tons of extra cord when trying to store tools. Because I was restoring the saw for a friend as a gift for his birthday, I put an extra long 12' cord on it.


















Cleaned up the case, put on 2 coats of primer, 6 coats of paint and 2 coats of clear coat.




































A photo from a happy friend.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

WOW! Very nice project! I have a much newer version of this saw (2000) and it does not look this good!


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## MrFid (Mar 9, 2013)

Oh wow amazing job. Such a good looking saw.


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## marcuscraft (Nov 14, 2012)

Its amazing how sexy a saw can look. Just dont tell my wife I said that.


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## freddy1962 (Feb 27, 2014)

Sweet


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

I have a blue label 77 (serial number 160239) and I don't know how to decipher how old it is. Mine is in such shape that it doesn't need restoration, and it's never had an abrasive blade on it. I do know it was used professionally by a framing carpenter in Chicago for less than two years in the late 50's, early 60's. After that it was used very little. Even the black crinkle paint and leather handle on the case are still in good shape.


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## BreeStephany (Jun 1, 2012)

bigblockyeti, would it be possible to send me pictures of your saw and case. To my knowledge, the leather handle was only used on the model E and model J Skil saws, which came before the Skil 77, however, it is possible that you have one of the very early model Skil 77's, which could be late 1930's or very early 1940's, if in fact the case is original to the saw.

Unfortunately, as Skil changed hands, a lot of the serial number data was lost, and so unfortunately, its very difficult to date the saws based off of the serial number alone. Parts used and minor design changes over the period are generally what I use to date the saw.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Here's the pictures of my saw.


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## BreeStephany (Jun 1, 2012)

That case is almost exactly the same case used in late model E / J Skil saws of the 1930's but its the correct size case for a 77 and thus is likely the original case. The smaller vent slots on the motor housing are consistent with the earlier Skil 77 saws. I haven't seen all of the patent numbers listed out on a blue label saw before, however, given the serial number range and all of the earlier characteristics, I would saw late 1930's early 1940's… approximately 1937 ~ 1940.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

That's believable as I know it belonged to my Grandpa's brother-in-law, then my Grandpa. But, there's no telling if he actually bought in new as they were prohibitively expensive for most carpenters 80+ years ago. He also wouldn't have been old enough in 1937.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Hey! I can be your friend, and I will have a birthday this year. Do I qualify? 
Great resto.
Bill


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## vikingcape (Jan 3, 2013)

That is a really cool gift and a really cool read. Thanks for sharing that


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## Zer0 (Jun 15, 2016)

OK so lets say I could not get the brush caps off and had to get a little destructive with them. Do I need to look for vintage caps or is there a replacement that I can buy off the shelf some place? Looked like there was some kind of thread lock or a lubricant that turn into thread lock over the past 60 years…..


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## BreeStephany (Jun 1, 2012)

> OK so lets say I could not get the brush caps off and had to get a little destructive with them. Do I need to look for vintage caps or is there a replacement that I can buy off the shelf some place? Looked like there was some kind of thread lock or a lubricant that turn into thread lock over the past 60 years…..
> 
> - Zer0


Zer0,

Eurton 700-CAP external threaded brass insert caps should work. (http://store.eurtonelectric.com/brushcapsexternalthreadbrassinsert-3.aspx), they have the same 5/8-32 threaded brass insert. The plastic cap appears slightly larger than the stock caps but should still fit without issue. They are $3.25 / piece.


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

Great job and a wonderful pictorial. 
Mine is a mid 70s vintage. Only used to break down panels and longer lumber. 
It's a fantastic saw.


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## Zer0 (Jun 15, 2016)

OK so the saw is apart and I am cleaning everything with mineral spirits. Would you recommend just replacing all the armature bearings while the saw is apart and if so do you have any recommendations on sites to get the replacements as well as new seals? The rotor is pretty caked with a thick sawdust paste. Would it be safe to throw it in a mineral spirit bath for a couple of hours or is that a no no? I got the caps you specified and they fit great. Also I was trying to figure out if I were to replace the bearing that holds the saw blade shaft, I am not sure exactly how to remove it. Any suggestions or recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks…


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## BreeStephany (Jun 1, 2012)

Personally, I would replace all of the bearings on the saw. You already have it ripped down to the point of easily having access to the bearings, so why not spent a couple of minutes extra replacing them.

The bearings can be sourced through Eurton or Accurate Bearing. I can't find the order sheet from the last set of bearings I ordered, but if you have a set of calipers, you can look up your bearing size on their website pretty easily.

The seals are a little more difficult to find. I found mine through a local bearing shop.

Do not use mineral spirits on the armature or coil. I personally used dawn soap and a citrus based cleaner (Awesome) with a toothbrush to clean them up. Mineral spirits could break down the coating on the coil or armature, potentially significantly shortening the life of both.

Have you gotten the worm gear and shaft out yet? The blade size bearing just pounds out once you remove the drive shaft and worm gear.



> OK so the saw is apart and I am cleaning everything with mineral spirits. Would you recommend just replacing all the armature bearings while the saw is apart and if so do you have any recommendations on sites to get the replacements as well as new seals? The rotor is pretty caked with a thick sawdust paste. Would it be safe to throw it in a mineral spirit bath for a couple of hours or is that a no no? I got the caps you specified and they fit great. Also I was trying to figure out if I were to replace the bearing that holds the saw blade shaft, I am not sure exactly how to remove it. Any suggestions or recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks…
> 
> - Zer0


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## Zer0 (Jun 15, 2016)

Yes the only things left in the housing are the armature bearings…. There are part numbers on a couple of them that I can read so I will see if there may be some cross reference guide online. Thanks for the help!!!


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

Nice job on the restoration. Your friend is a lucky man to have such a dear fiend.


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## Zer0 (Jun 15, 2016)

OK I found replacements for all the bearings just looking for the two shaft seals now….


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

If you're able to find a reliable source for the shaft seals, post it here. The armature shaft seal on my 77 is leaking a little and I just picked up two 67's that I'm going to tear apart completely and I'd like to replace the seals if I can find them. One of them had no oil and is sounding rough with a little brass smeared on the worm, I hope it's not too far gone. I can't find any info on replacement worm and worm gears on these older saws either.


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## BreeStephany (Jun 1, 2012)

Unfortunately, generally once you start seeing brass in the oil, the worm gear off the blade shaft is generally too far gone to be reliable. You can continue to use the saw, but do so with the knowledge that it will likely fail, and will do so likely sooner than later.

The worm gears are obsolete, so your only option is to source NOS parts, to find a donor saw with a good gear set or to have a machinist make one, which is often cost prohibitive.

I too have had a difficult time sourcing the shaft seals. If I find a reliable source, I will definitely post it here as soon as I can.



> One of them had no oil and is sounding rough with a little brass smeared on the worm, I hope it s not too far gone. I can t find any info on replacement worm and worm gears on these older saws either.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

That's kinda what I was afraid of, when I was fixing power tools for contractors I only had three of the newer 77 saws apart and the parts were (are probably still are) readily available. Of those, two of them were used on panel saws that saw quite a bit of continuous run time. I suspect someone just let this one run without or with too little oil.


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## jimmydred (Mar 16, 2017)

Wow, some great info in this thread. New to the forum. I just bought a blue label 77 today at a garage sale for five bucks. Serial number is 219802. Its in ok shape, but no box and the cord is cut in half. It is missing one of the wingnuts on the boot. Do you have any idea where I could source one of these wingnuts? They look to be very specific to Skilsaw boots. Thanks, Marc


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

It's now a beauty. Impressive, you did a good job of bringing it back.


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## angelobellomo (May 9, 2017)

Beautiful job! I've got a 77 from the 40s. Could you possibly tell me how to remove the armature. The entire saw is broken down, the front armature nut is off. I cannot for the life of me figure out what to do next? Do have to remove the bearings to get the armature out?


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## BreeStephany (Jun 1, 2012)

When you say the entire say the entire saw is broken down, I am assuming you have removed the back casing, field winding and brushes as well as the front bearing cap. Once you remove the back half of the saw off, the front bearing cap and armature nut removed, take a center punch and drive out the armature shaft from the front. You will see an indent on the front of the armature shaft that you can place your center punch in to do so.

When driving out, be sure to support the armature, as once it is released from the bearings, it will fall out.

Once you have removed the armature, take off the gear case access plate on the blade side of the housing and remove the armature worm gear, which is now free inside the gear case.

Once you remove the armature worm gear, remove the output shaft bearing cover and drive out the output shaft from the blade side. Do not use a center punch to drive this out, as you can damage the threads inside the shaft.



> Beautiful job! I ve got a 77 from the 40s. Could you possibly tell me how to remove the armature. The entire saw is broken down, the front armature nut is off. I cannot for the life of me figure out what to do next? Do have to remove the bearings to get the armature out?
> 
> - angelobellomo


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## angelobellomo (May 9, 2017)

It took some serious whacks to get it out. Well I've got it broken down and cleaned. This saw looks like it developed a leak early on, and was not used that much afterwards. I ran it for three seconds before tearing it down, and it sounded good, but dry. When I've got it up and running I'll post a picture.


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## angelobellomo (May 9, 2017)

@breestephany

I found replacements for all of the bearings except for one of the blade bearings which reads:
"FEDERAL FS S503"

I had to use a camera to magnify it so that I could read it. It looks to be the same dimensions as the New Departure 87503, only its fully enclosed. I believe it's the bearing from right next to the blade iirc.

I don't know what special features the designers had in mind for that bearing. I found a nomenclature guide for Federal bearings that indicates that ,based on the letter prefixes, this bearing is a "SPECIAL DESIGN BEARING" and "EXTRA SMALL, INCH DIMENSIONS, FULL TYPE."

Do you remember what you ended up ordering?

https://www.ahrinternational.com/FEDERAL-BALL-BEARINGS_nomenclature.shtml


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## angelobellomo (May 9, 2017)

@breeStephany In my previous post where it says "only it's fully enclosed" I meant to write "only it's *not* fully enclosed". I think all I need is a 503 bearing with one side open. I see several of them now that I know what I'm looking for. As for the "special design bearing", it's probably a much more prosaic internal signification that it sounds like.

I do have to ask you how you got the field coil out of its housing. I'm afraid of damaging the glaze.


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## KevinInColo (Apr 29, 2018)

Great work. I have a few questions. What paint did you use on the saw? Also, my 77 is a newer one, but still all metal. I'm not sure how to remove the blade drive shaft since mine does not have the access hole opposite the blade side. Any tips? Lastly, what's the best way to remove the gearbox bearings? They are really stuck in there.


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## ThomBarlee (Feb 5, 2019)

Super project! And thank you so far Bree for your helpful tips on my saw restoration project! I noticed that in your pics of all the internal parts of the saw that you had the armature out of the case and it separated in two with the worm gear separate…. did you have to use a puller of some kind to separate those parts or did you drive the armature out? did you have to remove the bearings or did you do so because you had to replace them anyhow?

Thanks in advance for any help you can toss my way!
~Thom


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## lafester (Feb 18, 2019)

I'm putting together my black label saw and it looks to be very similar to the blue. 
Curious what the procedure is for getting the guard back on and tensioned properly with the spring?


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## BreeStephany (Jun 1, 2012)

> I m putting together my black label saw and it looks to be very similar to the blue.
> Curious what the procedure is for getting the guard back on and tensioned properly with the spring?
> 
> - lafester


To tension the guard, remove the shoe and upper guard from the saw, install the spring, which as a point which pushes into the guard body and another that pushes into the saw body, install the screws to the lower guard attachment plate, but do not tighten them completely.

After you have done this, wind the lower blade guard (I believe generally counter-clockwise) until you have the amount of tension on the guard that you desire. Once you have wound the guard, tighten the 3 screws which hold the lower guard on and then install the upper guard and shop on the saw.

Let me know if this helps?


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

I salute you on a great refurb, on a worthy old wormer.

Thanks for posting, and all the pics, you tickled my memory bank.


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## lafester (Feb 18, 2019)

I'll give that a shot, thanks! I didn't think there would be enough room to rotate the guard once screwed in, even if just a little.

I decided to rip her completely apart and now I am stuck trying to remove the lower worm and bearings. It does not seem to want to budge! Once I get that out and cleaned up I can get back to assembly.



> To tension the guard, remove the shoe and upper guard from the saw, install the spring, which as a point which pushes into the guard body and another that pushes into the saw body, install the screws to the lower guard attachment plate, but do not tighten them completely.
> 
> After you have done this, wind the lower blade guard (I believe generally counter-clockwise) until you have the amount of tension on the guard that you desire. Once you have wound the guard, tighten the 3 screws which hold the lower guard on and then install the upper guard and shop on the saw.
> 
> ...


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## lafester (Feb 18, 2019)

Ok, so that did not work at all. What did work was to actually bend out the spring a bit so it would stay locked in place while I turned the guard and then secured the screws. It only takes about a 1/4 turn back to get enough tension. Thanks though!

Oh and the lower worm just needed some solid persuading to come out. I did see some gold in the bottom but I do not believe the gears are overly worn. They are pretty damn thick.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

> The seals are a little more difficult to find. I found mine through a local bearing shop.
> 
> - BreeStephany


Dragging this up from the dead, I'm knee deep in another blue label 77 rebuild and given my lack of desire to visit a bearing shop for the time being, I'm going to try to source seals online. The spindle seal is marked CR (Chicago Rawhide) 3312 and measures 1.739" x 0.935" x 0.250 thick. The armature shaft seal is marked TROSTEL 4867 and measures 1.378" x 0.625" x 0.245" thick. I'm getting the OD measurements from the diameter of the seal, not the bore into which they are pressed and the ID from the sleeve that actually touches the inside of the seal as installed. Unfortunately the armature shaft sleeve on this particular saw looks a little chowdered so it will need replacement or I'll have to turn and polish it undersized.


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## john911 (Aug 2, 2020)

Great job on the restoration. I am trying to rebuild a blue label 77 but am missing a few parts. Any advice regarding sourcing parts for these old saws?


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## BreeStephany (Jun 1, 2012)

> Great job on the restoration. I am trying to rebuild a blue label 77 but am missing a few parts. Any advice regarding sourcing parts for these old saws?
> 
> - john911


What parts in particular are you looking to source?

Here is a parts diagram for the type 1 77. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4dbB1AeYWVMSjROMmxNX3E3UlU/view?usp=drivesdk)


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## john911 (Aug 2, 2020)

Thanks for the reply. To start with I need part# 1823. Is the driveshaft part of the gear assembly #1823? If I am able to source a drive shaft I may need more but without the driveshaft I am stuck.


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## angelobellomo (May 9, 2017)

You probably saw this. Buy it and if the worm and gear are in good condition I'll buy them from you for half what you pay for the saw plus shipping.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254576793677


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