# Clear finish for a white oak table



## Oldgoat41 (Oct 19, 2017)

I am making a 30" diameter white oak coffee table for my grandson. He supplied info about a commercial table he liked and I'm trying to duplicate it. The manufacturer says it has a matte laquer finish. He already has an end table with that finish. My finishing preference for the last few years has been wipe on poly, multiple coats, roughed between coats with non-woven pad, final coat rubbed out with 0000 steel wool/ paste wax. Obviously that would add some color so wouldn't match. I haven't worked with laquer and don't have facilities to spray a finish. I am leaning toward water based poly which would be clear but haven't used that either. I don't know if that would rub out like oil base does. I bought a 1/2 pint each of gloss and satin polycrilic to try on test pieces but haven't got around to it yet. I would appreciate your opinions, advice, or ideas.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

You'll want to make some test boards anyway, so why not do one with the wipe on poly and see how it looks compared to his side table? In my experience you will never get the depth from a water based finish that you can with solvent ones.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

Matching furniture is a whole different ball game. I once made 15 sample boards before I found a stain that matched. But the main thing for you will be keeping the finish clear. Even non-yellowing lacquer gives white oak a yellow undertone. Clear shellac is a pretty good choice, otherwise I would be thinking about a WB finish.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

It is going to be very challenging to match an existing finish by using something other than that finish. Be prepared for some disappointment.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Posting a pic of the end table would be helpful, especially with a piece of your white oak next to it. How much yellow tint is there to the end table? "Matte lacquer finish" is not enough info from the mfr. See if the mfr will provide brand and name of the finish, and whether it is solvent or wb - some are water clear, some will yellow. As to visual depth of finish, probably wont matter much if it is truly a matte finish and you may be able to match it pretty close with a wb product (sure would not use mw polycrylic on anything much less a dining table - too soft).

As for rubbing out, you dont want to rub out a true matte finish - the final coat needs to be sprayed and left alone. To answer your question tho, yes wb can be leveled and rubbed out like ob. The effect of abrasives is a bit different and you may not get the exact same results with the exact same process, but a little adjustment will get you there. You definetely want to do some practice boards, beginning to end, until satisfied with the look.


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

Water-based polyacrylics tend to turn milky if brushed or "worked" too much. I have had best results by using a spray gun. Since the white oak is an open grain wood, it may be essential to match the filler of the lacquer finished end table.


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## Oldgoat41 (Oct 19, 2017)

The problem is that the end table is in New York City and I am in Iowa. I will try to attach photos of the original table. https://photos.app.goo.gl/qAh85c9Jq9qyFi7F9 https://photos.app.goo.gl/WEx8ioy3Usv2TmGz5 https://photos.app.goo.gl/bMbuc2H99E8x9EwE6


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

I normally use nitrocellulose based lacquer for finishes like that or solvent based polyurethane if durability is an issue. On a whim, I tried some Minwax water based Polycrylic in a rattle can. I didn't like the result at all. It looked cold, dull and plasticky. Other brands may be better and YMMV. My advice is to always try a new finish schedule on matching scrap wood before committing to it.


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## Oldgoat41 (Oct 19, 2017)

End table photo. https://www.akronstreet.com/collections/the-collection/products/case-side-table


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## EarlS (Dec 21, 2011)

Looking a the pictures, I wonder if the end table was white washed or bleached? It looks really pale compared to the normal tones in white oak.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Looking at the pics, a water based poly is your best bet. From those picks the wood does not appear to have any chatoyance, so the blah look from wb finishes should match. #1 product - Target Coatings Poly EM9000, flat or satin available, #2 GF High Performance poly, flat and satin available. Both claim they can be applied by brush, never tried it. I have read where others claim success brushing them, usually with a foam brush. If you have an air compressor, you might try the purple hvlp sprayer from HF for under $20.


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

The photo of the end table is definitely not a limed oak finish typical of the 1940's.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Looking at the pics, a water based poly is your best bet. From those picks the wood does not appear to have any chatoyance
> 
> - OSU55


You can tell that from an underexposed photo that is grossly lacking in dynamic range? Not to mention the fact that it's a catalog photo and not one of the actual table.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

> Looking at the pics, a water based poly is your best bet. From those picks the wood does not appear to have any chatoyance
> 
> - OSU55
> 
> ...


Apparently you have trouble reading…..see the 1st 4 words of my statement.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Apparently you have trouble reading…..see the 1st 4 words of my statement.
> 
> - OSU55


No trouble reading at all. You said that from looking at the pics the wood does not appear to have any chatoyance. I'm just amazed that you have such a keen eye that you can ascertain that fact from a dull photo. I went on to say that anything you can glean from those photos regarding the wood grain is pretty meaningless, since they're not photos of the actual piece of furniture.

Sorry I mixed two concepts into one post. I should have kept it simpler for you.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Looks like a real piece of furniture to me, I could be wrong…...


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Looks like a real piece of furniture to me, I could be wrong…...
> 
> - OSU55


End table photo. https://www.akronstreet.com/collections/the-collection/products/case-side-table

Since you said pics - plural - you were obviously referencing the catalog photos. If you're referring to the single photo, I clearly see areas where there is likely some level of chatoyance. Either way it seems like you're missing the boat.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

I prefer to help the op solve his problem vs debate with someone who's intent is to simply argue for the sake of argument and considers it good discussion.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I prefer to help the op solve his problem vs debate with someone who's intent is to simply argue for the sake of argument and considers it good discussion.
> 
> - OSU55


Go back to post #1 in the thread. I helped the OP solve his problem with a rational suggestion that anyone can comprehend. Do test boards.

But you, as you are wont to do, came along with your magical chatoyance lens and your "I know all there is to know about finishing" attitude and confuse the issue.

So, no, I don't argue for the sake of argument, I just expose poseurs.


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

+1 test boards are absolutely needed when matching finish.

+1 matching matte finishes is total PIA regardless of how you do it: 
http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/matte-finishing-techniques/

+1 Matte lacquer finish is a 'no-touch' spray on top coat. Spray it on, leave it alone. 
Matte surfaces will even have to be fully foam protected in shipping, as rubbing against any corrugated cardboard or other packing material will polish finish and increases gloss level - leaving a glossy mark.

+1 There is no reason to discuss if one option is better for OP, as only they know what skills and tools can be used for project and actual wood colors. 
To avoid getting berated for sharing an less than optimal option not already mentioned, will post and leave the remaining discussion to the experts.

IMHO - 30 inch table is relatively small piece of furniture. OP does not need to buy any spray equipment to enable use of matte lacquer. One finish choice to test would be matte finish rattle can lacquer. 
Rattle cans are never cheap way to spray a finish. But 30" table does not need massive amount of top coat. My guess, needs ~6-8 rattle cans - hopefully less if you seal wood as part of matching color.

Couple of product suggestions:
Watco brand is relatively easy to find solvent lacquer and cost about $5 at HD. Mohawk also sells matte lacquer in spray can for touch-up work, for ~$10 can.

Taking the 'no-touch' spray finish recommendation on step further, Rust-Oleum and Varathane brands both offer matte finish water based Polyurethanes in a spray can. These finishes are supposed to be water clear, and might make matching finish easier? I.E. If you need to add color, you can apply very light amber dye or some shellac; then top coat with WB spray finish. Benefit of water clear is you might get deeper chatoyance by using dye with shellac base coat.

Is rattle spray can the best spray solution? 
No. 
Not for anyone with an air compressor, or some one willing to buy a cheap Graco/HF airless electric sprayer.

Hope this back yard mechanic idea helps you find more options for finish on this project.

If it were my project, would test using Mohawk pre-cat lacquer with HVLP sprayer on my first color match test. It is one of the older popular commercial solvent lacquers used, and most lacquer competitors attempt to match, or sell similar product. Mohawk is easy to get from several local wood finishing suppliers in PHX, if your local supply house has something similar give it try. I might be only thing you need to test. 

Please keep progress posted. Would really like to see your test samples shipped to NY, and pictures shared of comparison results on top of table. Who knows: You might find that customer prefers something just a little different that what they already have. Customers are fickle when given better looking hand made choices. :-0)

Cheers!


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

> I prefer to help the op solve his problem vs debate with someone who's intent is to simply argue for the sake of argument and considers it good discussion.
> 
> - OSU55
> 
> ...


In this community members are expected to treat each other with respect at all times.

There will always be disagreements and fusses between members. It is simply human nature. We truly encourage members to discuss and openly share their thoughts on a topic. It is how we all learn and life would be pretty boring if we all felt the same way.

That being said, this is not grade school. We don't gang up in little groups to take sides or encourage others to do the same.

If you were at a local get together and got into a disagreement with someone, I am guessing you would take it outside instead of ruining the party for everyone. I expect the same here.

*If you are not able to discuss a topic respectfully then you need to remove yourself from the topic. If you are unable to discuss a topic with a specific member then you need to choose to ignore that member or take the discussion off the boards. If you are unable to do either of these things, I will help you to do so.*

- Cricket


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I tried to find if this has been said and didn't see it, but be aware that all waterborne finishes are not water-clear. Some of the manufacturers add a tint to mimic the oil based counter part. While i think the waterborne approach will be your best solution, be sure to check the particular finish to see if it has the tint.


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## Snipes (Apr 3, 2012)

Does indeed look like waterborne finish to my eye. I am not a fan of polycrylic. I will often use old masters. Osu why do you prefer target over general? hardness, color? just curious as i've never used it


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## Oldgoat41 (Oct 19, 2017)

> +1 test boards are absolutely needed when matching finish.
> 
> +1 matching matte finishes is total PIA regardless of how you do it:
> http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/matte-finishing-techniques/
> ...


Thanks for your thoughtful comment. I had decided to make up some test pieces to send to NY. This whole laquer thing has me a bit out of my comfort zone but i have been there before.


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## Oldgoat41 (Oct 19, 2017)

> If anyone is interested in the resolution test pieces were done with water base poly satin and gloss satin oil based. Side by side comparison to my eye had almost no discernable difference. Final finish was wipe on satin poly rubbed out with steel wool/wax. Client(grandson) happy with results.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> I am making a 30" diameter white oak coffee table for my grandson. He supplied info about a commercial table he liked and I m trying to duplicate it. The manufacturer says it has a matte laquer finish. He already has an end table with that finish. My finishing preference for the last few years has been wipe on poly, multiple coats, roughed between coats with non-woven pad, final coat rubbed out with 0000 steel wool/ paste wax. Obviously that would add some color so wouldn t match. I haven t worked with laquer and don t have facilities to spray a finish. I am leaning toward water based poly which would be clear but haven t used that either. I don t know if that would rub out like oil base does. I bought a 1/2 pint each of gloss and satin polycrilic to try on test pieces but haven t got around to it yet. I would appreciate your opinions, advice, or ideas.
> 
> - Oldgoat41





> I am making a 30" diameter white oak coffee table for my grandson. He supplied info about a commercial table he liked and I m trying to duplicate it. The manufacturer says it has a matte laquer finish. He already has an end table with that finish. My finishing preference for the last few years has been wipe on poly, multiple coats, roughed between coats with non-woven pad, final coat rubbed out with 0000 steel wool/ paste wax. Obviously that would add some color so wouldn t match. I haven t worked with laquer and don t have facilities to spray a finish. I am leaning toward water based poly which would be clear but haven t used that either. I don t know if that would rub out like oil base does. I bought a 1/2 pint each of gloss and satin polycrilic to try on test pieces but haven t got around to it yet. I would appreciate your opinions, advice, or ideas.
> 
> - Oldgoat41


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

If that little round table is the one in this old thread it looks pretty darn good. Fits the space nicely.
You captured the essence of white oak perfectly with the finish 
Good Luck


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## Oldgoat41 (Oct 19, 2017)

> If that little round table is the one in this old thread it looks pretty darn good. Fits the space nicely.
> You captured the essence of white oak perfectly with the finish
> Good Luck
> 
> - Aj2


That is it in it's new home, an apartment in Brooklyn, NY. Thanks for the comment.


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