# Powermatic 141 bandsaw refurbish



## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

*Diving in*

I wasn't going to blog about this since I hadn't planned on doing so much to the saw, but as things go…..

I had been wanting another bandsaw to complement my MiniMax 16. Usually when I do a project, I end up resawing some wood and also cutting shapes with templates on the router table. Though it only takes about 5 minutes, swapping from a re-saw blade to a blade appropriate for cutting curves gets real old. I wanted another saw that I could leave equipped with a small (1/4") blade for general purpose use. It could be a small saw with low power since it would not need to work very hard.

This blog should run in three segments, each segment will be what happens over a weekend. Since I had already begun the process of refurbishing before deciding to do this writeup, some of the details are not well documented for this first part.

*So let it begin!*

I saw mention of an on-line tool auction about a large drum sander in a Lumberjacks thread. It was then I noticed that the auction was physically nearby so I dug a bit deeper and found this "gem"










It met all my specs! The right size and homely enough that it should go for a reasonable price. I went to physically check it out. It appeared as expected, the only unseen "surprises" were the original motor was gone and the replacement was sitting on a piece of plywood in the motor cabinet. The tires were rotted and grooved as expected for an old saw.

I determined a target price and won the saw with little fuss from other bidders. These auctions have lots of 'fees' associated with buying and I needed to add a 15% buyers fee and $20 loading fee onto my bid price. Still, overall I was happy with the deal.

So on Friday evening I unloaded it into my garage (oops! I mean "studio") and contemplated what to do first.









I had anticipated just leaving it alone except for making necessary repairs, but I have a personality flaw that won't let that happen…..

My mind was beginning to think about a full restoration. This would mean a complete teardown with lots of sandblasting and metal debarring/polishing.

Egads! My summer would be lost!

Ok, I settled on just making the thing look nice on the outside and maybe I'll only lose a month of weekends.

Saturday morning arrives and I begin the tear down.

*Step 1: Remove the easy stuff*









The doors and blade guides come off. The chrome plating on the blade guide bar is flaking off. No problem, the fit is still proper. I notice more detail on the factory "inspection" sticker inside the top door










Built in 1964!

*Step 2: Get the wheels cleaned up for new tires*
The wheels are removed with the help of a three jaw puller and the tires come off easily enough with a razor blade.

I had spun the wheels before bidding and after I got it home and all seemed smooth, but now that I have the wheels removed, the spindle bearings seems a tad rough. The lower spindle just needed some oil behind the seals from a router bit oiler. Things smoothed up nicely! The upper bearings demanded a closer look so I pulled the wheel shaft and bearings.

Lots of black crud (deteriorating bearing seal) and the bearings rotated with a distinct clunking. May as well replace all bearings since 52 years of use/abuse have gone by.

Panic sets in when I read off the bearing part number and look online only to find that bearing doesn't exist! Measuring the dimensions reveals everything is "odd". The numbers are close to metric, but not quite and why would metric bearings be used on a 1964 power tool? A search for replacement parts by tool model found that eReplacementParts.com has the bearings, at $45/per. Ouch! they must be rare and they know they can charge whatever the market will bear!

Fortunately the excellent archives at OWWM provided a bearing part list. The bearings are indeed metric (and readily available!).

Bearings are ordered!

The lower spindle assembly:









*Step 3: The electrical*

The original power switch was replaced with a cheap house wall switch. I found a suitable unit at Grizzly.com for $15 (on order). The original motor was replaced with a 3/4 HP swamp cooler motor. This means a centrifugal switch for the starting winding to cut out instead of capacitor start. No real problem since the starting torque load is small, but I'll have to keep the saw dust away!
I'll see if I can find a better way to use the original motor mount and get rid of the home made plywood mount.
The interior power cord wiring is a bit crusty, I'll replace that as well.

*Step 4: The rest*

No other surprises, everything else comes apart easily, no cracks or other game changers. New urethane tires are on order.

*Step 5: Paint prep*

It's Sunday.
Now for the fun. The paint on this saw was what really made it look "sad". It appears that the previous users had somehow been spilling/splattering some other paint/solvent on the side and base and at one point had tried to scrape it off. 
Two quarts of paint stripper got the exterior pieces down to bare metal and the large cast iron frame ready.



















It's Monday! (a holiday)
I used to do a lot of automotive work, including painting, so I have a stash of old paints and primer. My favorite is Variprime. It is a self etching primer which means it has phosphorous acid in the mix to bite into the steel and also make any rust inert. Basically it is otherwise just Zinc Chromate, the sage green stuff.









Here is the frame after priming









This weekend I'll continue with the painting. Parts are on order and I might get to begin assembly on the weekend after next assuming everything arrives. This will give the paint a week to set up.

Until then!


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## AandCstyle (Mar 21, 2012)

splintergroup said:


> *Diving in*
> 
> I wasn't going to blog about this since I hadn't planned on doing so much to the saw, but as things go…..
> 
> ...


Splinter, thank you for blogging your progress. I have never done anything like this (I'm not mechanically inclined.) and appreciate you sharing your expertise.


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## JimYoung (Jan 20, 2014)

splintergroup said:


> *Diving in*
> 
> I wasn't going to blog about this since I hadn't planned on doing so much to the saw, but as things go…..
> 
> ...


Ditto Art's comments. Nice to see how this is done since I don't usually buy new tools.


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## RibsBrisket4me (Jul 17, 2011)

splintergroup said:


> *Diving in*
> 
> I wasn't going to blog about this since I hadn't planned on doing so much to the saw, but as things go…..
> 
> ...


Great job so far! This has been added to my watch list.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

splintergroup said:


> *Diving in*
> 
> I wasn't going to blog about this since I hadn't planned on doing so much to the saw, but as things go…..
> 
> ...


I'm going to love watching this project. I watched a friend rebuild his Powermatic planer. I was there when he started it for the first time. I would love to be there when you fire up this old girl.


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## teachermiller (Nov 15, 2016)

splintergroup said:


> *Diving in*
> 
> I wasn't going to blog about this since I hadn't planned on doing so much to the saw, but as things go…..
> 
> ...


SPLINTER 
Wow, your machine looks brand new.

I just joined this site today and I am looking for some help with a Powermatic 141-14". I teach at Smoky Valley H. S. in Lindsborg, KS and our machine went out. The lower wheel shaft is worn out along with the bearings. I have searched all over the internet for replacement parts. Wanted to check if ereplacement parts will work.
Powermatic PWBS-14 (1791216K) 1.5HP 1Ph 115/230V Bandsaw Parts or you have another place someone can order from. Thanks in advance for any help.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

splintergroup said:


> *Diving in*
> 
> I wasn't going to blog about this since I hadn't planned on doing so much to the saw, but as things go…..
> 
> ...





> SPLINTER
> Wow, your machine looks brand new.
> 
> I just joined this site today and I am looking for some help with a Powermatic 141-14". I teach at Smoky Valley H. S. in Lindsborg, KS and our machine went out. The lower wheel shaft is worn out along with the bearings. I have searched all over the internet for replacement parts. Wanted to check if ereplacement parts will work.
> ...


Welcome aboard!

All parts can be found at ereplacementparts.com, but at a dear price! The Lower wheel shaft can be purchased there for ~$29 which is not too out of line. This company usually uses the manufacturers part numbers so it makes searching for alternative sources fairly easy. You can get the shaft directly from powermatic for $25.

Bearings are $40 each at ereplacementparts which is just crazy insane. The key is the outer snap ring and the shields. A quick look on Amazon shows a good selection. Avoid the VXB or any Chinese cheap bearings, they don't last very long. NTN or Nachi are good, even if manufactured in China, they are made to the tighter specs of the Japanese company. You can get the required (2) bearings for less then $40.

Old woodworking machinery is a great source for information and instructionals as well.

Good luck!


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

*The painting*

Well, a good weekend for making progress on the bandsaw refurbish has come and gone. It figures that my parts order has not arrived yet (I did get the blade guide bearings however).

Anyway, plenty that can be done!.

*Painting:*

Saturday morning was perfect to set up outside for spraying, Temps were down, air was still.
Nice thing about living in the sticks, I can paint outdoors without complaints. This should complete a repaint of all visible parts with the exception of a couple of small bits and bolt heads. I'll figure out what to do with those later.




























The color is John Deere tractor green, the closest off-the-shelf match I could find locally. The original color was a bit more grey and not nearly as glossy (I hate gloss), but hey, it's just a refurbish on the cheap!









Paint was $10 for a quart, just enough to get several coats on. I thinned about 10% with naphtha.

I used an automotive touch-up gun. I love this thing, it gets into awkward places, it's nicely tunable, and is conservative with overspray. 









I bought it about 30 years ago from Pratco, which was the equivalent of Harbor Freight today. Back then all the 'junk' tools were from Taiwan. Pratco sold these brand name knock-offs for real cheap. They are very well made, nice machining and come with a spare parts kit (seals, etc.) that are identical to the name brand spares.

*Electrical:*

I knew some work would be involved here! Sometime ago the original motor (anywhere from a 3/8 HP to a 3/4 HP) was replaced. The replacement used was a 3/4 HP swamp cooler motor. These are cheap motors in that they use a centrifugal switch instead of a start capacitor to get spinning and they use bushings instead of bearings. The motor is not enclosed leaving the centrifugal switched prone to jamming from sawdust. The pulleys are adjustable in diameter by changing the groove width. Good thing because to get the saws specified 3000 feet/min of blade speed, I needed to get to an about 2.1:1 ratio with the upper pulley. This meant I needed to increase it's diameter about 1/2".

The open motor is something to keep in mind when I consider dust collection!

Previous owners had modified the motor mount plate presumably to compensate for the physically smaller motor bracket. Apparently they still needed to shim up the motor with a 1" thick piece of plywood.










I received the saw with only one bolt holding this menagerie in place. I have some 1.5" galvanized square tubing which should provide for a better mount. Since the modified motor plate is at its upper limit and I increased the pulley diameter, the extra 1/2" of my mount should be easy to accommodate within the motor plates adjustment range.



















The wiring was old and brittle, A grounded 14 AWG cord runs from the switch to the motor, but everything else from the switch to the outlet is ungrounded. Amateur hour!. I guess a new power cord is on the shopping list.

I need to wait until I get the belt installed before confirming if my new mount will work.

*Bearings:*

I did install four new blade guide bearings. These are the blade side bearings on the upper guide









*Door and Table:*

I did some finish work by reinstalling the Powermatic placard on the upper door. I had cleaned this up with fine steel wool and gave it a covering of spray poly.










The table got some loving with a cleaned surface and a new blade slot pin fashioned from a spare 1/4" drive socket (the original was long gone). This pin keeps the table top flush across both sides of the blade installation slot. Without it, the back side of the table springs down about 0.050". Enough to be annoying.










*Sunday:*

I still needed to paint the back sides of a few parts so these were left for today. Same setup, only now it's a bit windy and the freaking Cottonwoods are still seeding.

Think of it as trying to paint in a closet with two shedding long haired feral cats tearing apart a down filled pillow.
I picked out most of the junk stuck in the wet paint but it isn't as smooth as yesterdays work.

An hour of chasing all the threaded holes with taps and I'm done with the saw for this weekend.

Next weekend I should have all the parts ready to go. Finishing assembly should be no problem, maybe one additional day to do the alignment and setup.

Thanks for tuning in!


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## Dee1 (Mar 24, 2013)

splintergroup said:


> *The painting*
> 
> Well, a good weekend for making progress on the bandsaw refurbish has come and gone. It figures that my parts order has not arrived yet (I did get the blade guide bearings however).
> 
> ...


Looking great fantastic job love your choice of color.
Dee1


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

splintergroup said:


> *The painting*
> 
> Well, a good weekend for making progress on the bandsaw refurbish has come and gone. It figures that my parts order has not arrived yet (I did get the blade guide bearings however).
> 
> ...


Looks great. I have a lot of green tools and other stuff in my shop and I like it a lot.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

splintergroup said:


> *The painting*
> 
> Well, a good weekend for making progress on the bandsaw refurbish has come and gone. It figures that my parts order has not arrived yet (I did get the blade guide bearings however).
> 
> ...


Thanks people!

I have no other tools this green, everything else is dust colored.


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## AandCstyle (Mar 21, 2012)

splintergroup said:


> *The painting*
> 
> Well, a good weekend for making progress on the bandsaw refurbish has come and gone. It figures that my parts order has not arrived yet (I did get the blade guide bearings however).
> 
> ...


Splinter, it looks like you are doing a great job. I am green with envy. haha


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

splintergroup said:


> *The painting*
> 
> Well, a good weekend for making progress on the bandsaw refurbish has come and gone. It figures that my parts order has not arrived yet (I did get the blade guide bearings however).
> 
> ...





> Splinter, it looks like you are doing a great job. I am green with envy. haha
> 
> - AandCstyle


Groan! 8^)


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

*Some electrical work*

Well, the refurbish is complete!
Lots of photos and rambling so I'll split the details up into a few more parts.

*Complete the motor wiring:*

The band saw base is sitting up on my dedicated workbench (the table saw) where everything is easy to reach. Funny how as one gets older they become adverse to lying on the floor in odd positions to work on things!

To recap, the original motor was replaced with a swamp cooler motor with a different frame size and mount. The wiring was getting crusty and the original power on/off switch was replaced with a standard home light switch.

As an added bonus, there wasn't a ground in sight.

First things first, make up a new switch to motor cable. I used 14/3 wire (14 gauge, 3-conductors). The switch end has ring terminals which I soldered and covered with heat shrink tubing. I've seen too many crimp-only connectors fail which is what typically happens unless you have one of those heavy duty, $100+ crimpers.










A 12 foot long cable was used between the switch and power plug, same gauge and same terminals used for the switch. The entry into the cabinet was protected with a strain relief and all ground conductors were bonded to the motor frame and metal saw cabinet.









It's nice to know the wiring is up to snuff!

The switch was replaced with a unit from Grizzly.com. Switch model D4157
is an excellent replacement. Under $14 and free shipping with a coupon I had set aside.










The mounting holes needed to be rethreaded for a larger screw (simple enough) and the switch installs without a hitch.


















I also bought one of these switches for an old 1.5 HP Powermatic belt/disk sander I have. It turns out the actual switch body is an exact match for the original. I decided to use the original sander switch faceplate instead of the larger (and better in my opinion) START/STOP plate that comes with the switch. I'll probably change my mind at a later time!

The motor i installed and all the electrical stuff works as it should (the motor even turns the correct direction).

Next up is to get this cabinet base onto the floor and proceed with reassembly!.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

*Reassembly*

The saw cabinet is sitting on the mobile base that came with the saw and I have re-bolted the heavy cast iron frame to the base. 









First item is to get the motor V-belt drive aligned and tightened down. This means working on the floor and turning wrenches in fractional increments while getting into contorted positions (joy!). I'll get this done first and get it over with.

*Lower spindle*

What I need first is a place for the upper pulley. This means I get to put the new bearings onto the lower wheel shaft and assemble this unit.

Fortunately all the press fitting was fairly easy, just some gentle tapping with a wood block. I do have a 50-ton press as a backup, but given how it likes to leak hydraulic fluid I'm glad not to have needed it!

The lower spindle unit assembled with new bearings:









Outer snap rings keep the bearings from moving inwards on the shaft and the drive pulley and lower wheel keep them from moving outwards. I'll use a feeler gauge to set the correct clearances.

Lower spindle installed on saw frame:









The upper belt drive pulley has a key to lock it to the spindle shaft. The set screw is far to the rear of the pulley hub an this key needs to be set as far in as it will go so the set screw will make contact. Note the recessed key in this picture:









Next up is the lower blade wheel, installed with a new urethane tire (details further down). Both pulleys slid onto the shaft with ease (light tapping with a rawhide mallet).









*Upper spindle*

Similar concept to the lower spindle, a deep socket is used to position the bearing onto the shaft and the upper spindle assembly is installed into the blade tracking tilt mechanism. The adjustment screws on this unit are tightened to remove all slop but still allow for easy tilting (gravity alone will cause it to tip).


















*Upper wheel mounting*

The sliding bracket for blade tension adjustment is installed onto the frame. You can see the difference between the original color and 'John Deere Green' that was used for the repaint.









Upper spindle assembly is installed on the sliding bracket, wheel bearing grease keeps moving parts moving









The tension shaft with tension scale and spring is installed next.









Finally the top wheel with new tire is slipped onto the spindle shaft, clearance set, and then locked down.









At this time I checked that the wheels were close to being coplanar by using a long straight edge. What do you know, they are perfect!

*Bandsaw tires*









I decided to use urethane tires since they are purported to last a long time and don't require gluing to the wheel. Reports of not needing to crown the tire are also intriguing (my wheels are 1" wide and dead flat).

These are made by Sulpher Grove tool and I purchased them through Amazon.com for $29 (w/free shipping). Funny thing about Amazon, they have maybe a half dozen listings for these tires from different vendors at all about the same price. There is one vendor however that has them listed for $132. Looking at his other 'offerings' shows such bargains as a 3M 5-sheet assortment of sanding paper for $37 and a 4 ounce spool of solder for $43. Must make most of his sales to some government entity….

Many people say to soak the tires in hot water to soften them up and them stretch them over the wheels. I was able to stretch them on directly without added heat, no big deal!

*Table and trunion plus guide bar*

Basically just bolt-ons. I left the table trunion bolts slightly loose for later adjustments.


















This pretty much sums up my Saturday. I'll easily finish this weekend making this refurbish a 3-weekend project.
Next chapter will cover the saw setup and final tweaks


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

splintergroup said:


> *Reassembly*
> 
> The saw cabinet is sitting on the mobile base that came with the saw and I have re-bolted the heavy cast iron frame to the base.
> 
> ...


Wonderful restoration job. I'm really impressed with the quality of this venerable machine, especially when I compare it to my Chinese Woodcraft bandsaw with its pot metal blade guides, etc. I love it because of it's power, 2hp, and it's capacity, ''18", but even though it has performed well over the last 6 years, I would still love to have the kind of quality that your powermatic has. You will have a really great machine that should last you a lifetime and give you dead accurate cuts.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

splintergroup said:


> *Reassembly*
> 
> The saw cabinet is sitting on the mobile base that came with the saw and I have re-bolted the heavy cast iron frame to the base.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mike!

It kind of reminds me of a 1960's era car. A bit lacking on technology, but tending to be over-built and ooh-so-curvy!


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## Illbmack (May 30, 2019)

splintergroup said:


> *Reassembly*
> 
> The saw cabinet is sitting on the mobile base that came with the saw and I have re-bolted the heavy cast iron frame to the base.
> 
> ...


The upper spindle assembly? Do you have the information on the bearings you used and the retaining clips? I have a 1973 Powermatic 141 and it seems that the bearings were replaced before I became the owner and the float around. I need to fix this because the blades keep getting spit off the wheels. Any and all information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

splintergroup said:


> *Reassembly*
> 
> The saw cabinet is sitting on the mobile base that came with the saw and I have re-bolted the heavy cast iron frame to the base.
> 
> ...


Hey Mack,

the bearings (and other parts) are listed at the end of the next part in this series.
They carry the part number

6203 2NSENR (upper spindle)

6203s are common, but the key to finding them are the postfix characters "2NSENR".

Prices are all over the board, usually depending on who made them. The source for the actual part I used is here

Another apparently compatible Nachi part is here


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

*Saw setup*

*
(Note: updated with tension spring info at the end)
*

The saw is assembled and ready for adjusting all the parts that matter (to me!).

*The Blade*

Everything on the saw needs to be adjusted with respect to the blade. The table needs to be square to the blade, the guide bar needs to be square to the blade, the blade guides need to be set to the blade, etc.

*Step 1:* Get the blade installed

First thing is to install a blade. The saw had a 1/4" blade in good condition so I looped this over the wheels and cranked up the tension on the tension adjustment wheel.

This thing turns smooth…..! Originally the wheel was much harder to turn. The greasing during assembly really did it's job.

Minor gripe This wheel takes a lot of turns to tension the blade, it would be nice if it had a spinner handle!

I get the blade up to tension, but the tension spring is fully compressed. Given that this saw should be able to handle a much wider blade I can only assume the spring is shot. Not surprising given that the saw is over 50 years old and chances are it never was de-tensioned after use. None of the aftermarket springs I can find are correct. The closest, for a Jet 14", is the correct length (3"), but appears to fit around a 3/8" tension adjust shaft. The Powermatic measures in at 1/2". eReplacement parts shows the correct dimensioned spring, but lists it as a 'spring clip'. The price also indicates that what I see is not what I'll get. $8 will buy a $0.50 hardware store item from them, but not a spring.
I'm going to try anyway, at least the picture associated with the part number and price all agree.

Back to the blade install: With the blade under tension I can spin the wheel and adjust the top wheel tilt tracking to keep the blade centered. The tracking is exceptionally touchy, I'll probably have to crown the tire if I continue to use a narrow blade.

Blade is installed and running without drift, I can proceed to the next step.

*Step 2:* Square the table

This assures that the miter slot is running parallel to the blade. I feel a good way to get this reliably set is to use a straight edge and assume that if the blade is running on the wheels without drift, it is where it will be when cutting wood.










Here you can see I have a straight edge aligned with the back of the blade on both sides of the wheel. This cast iron frame allows for nice access like this!. I can now use a square and align the miter slot by twisting the table. Once the square says everything is perfect, I can tighten up the trunion bolts on the bottom of the table.

*Step 3:* Zero the table tilt

99% of my bandsaw use is with the table flat. This saw (and I assume most others) have a stop for setting the table at 0 degrees. I placed a square on the table (aligned with the blade) and tilted the table until all was good. At this point I locked down the tilt levers and set the table stop bolt.









I should now have a table set for a nice square edge and a miter slot that should have the same squareness on a cross cut.

Next up is the guide bar.

*Step 4:* Square the guide bar

The guide bar should run exactly parallel to the blade as it is raised and lowered. If it is not parallel, I'll have to readjust the upper blade guide bearings every time I raise/lower the bar. Not fun!
On this saw the bar slides in a cast iron 'box' that is bolted to the saw frame though some slightly oversized holes.
Alignment (to the table which is now square to the blade) is by setting the bar position and tightening the bolts.
The problem is the bar moves slightly as the bolts are tightened. Eventually I compensated enough to get everything to fall into alignment with the bolts secure.









*Step 5:* Crown the tire
I was hoping to avoid this since everything I read about crowning rubber tires involved some tedious setups and sand paper. Referring to the tire manufactures web site, I found that they recommended crowning for narrow blades and only doing it on the top wheel (only one wheel, half the work I had anticipated 8^).

They also said to use tape! This makes total sense, a layer of tape around the center of the wheel will raise a crown.

Instructions were to run a ring of duct tape 1/4" wide around the wheel









Easy enough! A full width wrap of tape and then I used a razor blade to trim it to 1/4" wide.

Next, another layer twice as wide (same method)









I re-stretched the tire over the wheel without disturbing the tape (again, fairly easy) and behold! A slight crown in the upper tire that takes the 'touchiness' out of the tracking adjust (nice!).

*Step 6:* The Guides

Part of any blade install. I had the guides removed while I aligned everything and it turns out that the lower guides really should be installed with the table removed. I had the trunions secure so I could just tilt the table out of the way, but it ended up being easy enough to get the lower guide mount installed without disturbing anything. The lower guides are much like the steel blocks on other saws except these are angled. I kind of like this since it keeps things further out of the way and kind of acts like a scraper. One side of each guide was worn so I just flipped them over. Replacements from eReplacementParts are $80 each (ouch!) so I'll baby these. At least they should be easy to regrind when needed.









*The Good*
This whole process was much easier and faster than these kind of things usually go! All the bearing presses and pulley/wheel removal/install went easy without the typical binding or something breaking. Everything other than tires, springs, and bearings was in good shape, no bad surprises. The entire process went quick, just three weekends and I still had time to attend to other issues during the days.

*The Bad *
I'm sure I'll find more things as I use this saw, but what I consider 'bad' are ergonomic factors. Mainly these are just gripes. The tension knob takes a lot of turns and there is no way to speed up this process. The guides are a pain to adjust, everything involved uses a different sized hex wrench and/or box wrench. The start/stop switch is in a ridiculous location. I could move it to the column, but I'm not in a hurry 8^).

*The Ugly*
How this saw looked before I began!

*Future Items*

Figure out some dust collection, make some table inserts, keep an eye out for a 'real' motor.

Total costs for the parts was minimal:

Tires $29
Power switch $14
Paint and stripper $25
Bearings (with 6 extra guide bearings) $45

Bearing Part No. 
6200RS (guide)
6203 2NSENR (upper spindle)
6204 2RSNR (lower spindle)

*Before:*









*After:*




































"Mini-Me's" new (old) little brother









Thanks for following along!

*UPDATE:*

The original blade tension spring would collapse before proper tension could be applied to a 1/4" blade. The spring acts as a shock absorber and allows for slight eccentricities in the wheels so it really needs to stay in it's linear region. 









You can see the original has taken a set compared to the new factory spring.

With the new spring installed and the blade fully tensioned, you can see the spring is not fully compressed









Replacement choices for this saw are limited. The spring needs a 1/2" inside diameter to clear the tension rod. Most other 14" saws only use 3/8" rods so their springs would not fit.

Enter eReplacementParts.com
I have mixed opinions about this place. The good thing is they have a lot of parts, right down to washers and nuts. The part searches are based upon manufacturer parts diagrams so if you know where the part you need is located on the machine, chances are good you can reference it in the parts diagram and located the replacement. The web site also provides pictures of most parts, placed upon a 1" gridded background for size information.

The bad thing is their prices can get downright scary-high.

Back to the spring. Iturra Designs makes a nice replacement spring (out of stock when I looked) for $16. eReplacementParts charges around $30 for a similar tension spring on other common 14" saws. The listing for the Powermatic spring was under $9!

They have the part listed as a "spring clip" even though the picture shows the complete tension spring. Since they charge about that much for a retaining clip, I suspect the part is mislabeled. To my luck, I ordered the part and what I received was exactly what I needed.


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## AandCstyle (Mar 21, 2012)

splintergroup said:


> *Saw setup*
> 
> *
> (Note: updated with tension spring info at the end)
> ...


Splinter, I am truly impressed by (and jealous of) your mechanical abilities. I don't even know which way to loosen a nut!  You have a great machine in great condition that will probably outlast you and your heirs. Thank you for keeping it out of the landfill and for taking the time to document your efforts. Congratulations on a job well done!!


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## Dee1 (Mar 24, 2013)

splintergroup said:


> *Saw setup*
> 
> *
> (Note: updated with tension spring info at the end)
> ...


Splinter 
very nice job have you ever ordered anything from Iturra Design Bandsaw access catalog 
order # 904 642 2802 
fantastic folks have everything you or your bandsaw ever needed
if you spend a few bucks on a spring for example you will get a 250 page catalog that will keep you busy for long time 
your saw looks great. I solved the cranking problem with mine by taking the knob off and mounting a study 3/8 ratchet handle it has been working fine for many years now. and it has a new brother also just bought a new Powermatic 14 with a riser on it and it is fantastic.
Dee1


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

splintergroup said:


> *Saw setup*
> 
> *
> (Note: updated with tension spring info at the end)
> ...


Wonderful work on this restoration and also your the knowledgeable way you did the final assembly and adjustments. Very nice step by step blog. I wish we could see more like this one. I hope you find that tension spring you need. Can an old spring be re-tempered?


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

splintergroup said:


> *Saw setup*
> 
> *
> (Note: updated with tension spring info at the end)
> ...


Thanks for following along guys!

Art, sad thing is now that I'm done, it's back to the honey-do list. Painting and tiling is boring!
(and by the way it is "righty tighty lefty loosey" 8^)
Actually I guess I'm looking for distractions. Another blog post coming up on how I spent one hour fixing my drill press depth stop (done after I parked the BS into the corner)

Dee, I have a copy of the Iturra catalog (2010) that someone graciously scanned.I know these are nearly impossible to obtain otherwise. I have my eye on their spring for the 141, but was informed it's backordered. Since I don't anticipate going any bigger than maybe a 1/2" blade, the 'factory' spring should fill in nicely, at least until I decide to upgrade.

A ratchet handle? Hmmmm, Than gets me thinking, perhaps a speed wrench or maybe a bolt head so I can use my cordless drill with a socket adapter! 8^).

To be honest, I'm hoping the spring solves most of this, if I don't have to fully compress 3" of spring to get tension, it shouldn't be too much of a burden.

Mike, thanks for tuning in. I hadn't thought about re-tempering. I have access to my wife's glass kiln with the fancy temperature ramp controller. This may be worth trying, if nothing else just to see if it can be done 8^)


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## Dee1 (Mar 24, 2013)

splintergroup said:


> *Saw setup*
> 
> *
> (Note: updated with tension spring info at the end)
> ...


Ok how about taking the spring or its measurements to your local machine shop they will measure it and order one just like it? I am pretty positive Powermatic did not make the original? Macmasters carr or Grainger is also your friend?
Dee


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

splintergroup said:


> *Saw setup*
> 
> *
> (Note: updated with tension spring info at the end)
> ...





> Ok how about taking the spring or its measurements to your local machine shop they will measure it and order one just like it? I am pretty positive Powermatic did not make the original? Macmasters carr or Grainger is also your friend?
> Dee
> 
> - Dee1


Good advice on the McMaster Carr/Grainger. They have several speed crank handles I've eyed to replace the original tension knob. Maybe a luxury I'll try at some later date. The proper spring lies within their catalog pages, but at a price that is higher than what I currently have on order. Besides, I have no specs on the originals compression force which varies on the heat treatment used as well as the basic dimensions. Of course since I never plan to load up this saw to it's maximum limits, any spring would be acceptable if its length sits somewhere between no-load and fully compressed with a properly tensioned blade installed. 
In a pinch, I have an ample supply of old engine valve springs that match the wire diameter and length, but I'm not in a rush.
That's part of the beauty of having this saw as a backup tool. Not being in a rush means I can bide my time.
Should the eReplacementParts spring fall through, I'd probably just wait for the Iturra part. The guy is a bandsaw Guru and I don't doubt the Iturra spring would be a perfect fit.


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## Halbert9001 (Nov 1, 2021)

splintergroup said:


> *Saw setup*
> 
> *
> (Note: updated with tension spring info at the end)
> ...


Hey, I am feeling really stupid. I was beginning to refub my own Powermatic and now cannot get the blade guide assembly back on. No matter which way I turn it, the surfaces just don't align. I am pulling my hair out, at this point.
Any hints?


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

splintergroup said:


> *Saw setup*
> 
> *
> (Note: updated with tension spring info at the end)
> ...


Can you post a photo of the guide assembly?

What do you mean by "just don't align"? (too loose/tight, sits proud of the guide block so the two cross bars clamp it instead of allowing it to slide freely?)

I can't think of anything that could interfere, the frame mounted block is machined to the dimensions of the bar with a small amount of slop so the lock knob can force it to the rear for alignment. 
The two cross straps mount directly to the guide block (no shims under the straps).

I know these saws have "evolved" over the years and perhaps your unit used some shims in places that have been misplaced?


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## Halbert9001 (Nov 1, 2021)

splintergroup said:


> *Saw setup*
> 
> *
> (Note: updated with tension spring info at the end)
> ...


Hi, again. I got through the last hurdle I asked about (replacing guides), and put on some urethane tires, but I cannot for the life of me get the blade to track. It will look fine, then all of a sudden walk off the edge. You mentioned it being touchy, but this is absurd. I have one successful cut so far.

My question is this: did putting a crown on the tire help?

This may be the last straw for me and this machine, frankly. I love the idea of fixing up old tools, but there is a limit.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

splintergroup said:


> *Saw setup*
> 
> *
> (Note: updated with tension spring info at the end)
> ...


Yes, you need a crown for the top wheel. The "tape trick" I used from the sulpher web site worked well. Some tires come with the crown moulded in (usually stock rubber replacements), but I've not seen any urethane tires with that.


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## Halbert9001 (Nov 1, 2021)

splintergroup said:


> *Saw setup*
> 
> *
> (Note: updated with tension spring info at the end)
> ...


Nice, I saw that trick and thought about it. I needed one more nudge, thank you. Will let you know how it turns out.


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## jeff.randbfan (3 mo ago)

I am trying to source the "spring retainer" and now it shows "obsolete". any suggestions? thx


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

jeff.randbfan said:


> I am trying to source the "spring retainer" and now it shows "obsolete". any suggestions? thx


Jeff, seems the part has been bought out as you indicate. You are looking for the spring itself correct?

Best bet might be to check with Iturra Design, they don't have a web presence, but give them a call and see what they suggest.

Here is a link to a discussion that has the contact info (as of 2020)







Iturra Design


In an earlier post Bruce suggested I obtain a catalog from Iturra. It is a BS accessory catalog and much more. Iturra designs and manufactures their own parts. They also sell accessories from many other companies. What sets this catalog apart is all of the articles and reviews. There are reviews...




www.ncwoodworker.net


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## jeff.randbfan (3 mo ago)

splintergroup said:


> Jeff, seems the part has been bought out as you indicate. You are looking for the spring itself correct?
> 
> Best bet might be to check with Iturra Design, they don't have a web presence, but give them a call and see what they suggest.
> 
> ...


Is this the part number you received?























This looks like good option.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

jeff.randbfan said:


> Is this the part number you received?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My receipt from June of 2016 shows that part number (6813029) and was listed as a "spring clip".

Price was $8.03 " $5.25 shipping.

I believe I considered the Cobra but the price back then turned me off (It's just a spring!)

The key thing I found is that most all of the aftermarket springs for 14" saws had 3/8" ID's where the old 141's needed the 1/2"


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## rhodessam (3 mo ago)

SG Thanks for taking the time to put this info out there. I am looking at an 80's model 141 at a local school auction coming up on the 23rd. It is not as bad looking as yours was. But it is 3 phase. I bought a 70's model Clausing 15" drill press years ago and converted it to single phase. I was curious to know what you think a fair price is for a PW 141 is. Condition is a variable as always and it is never known till you plug it in and try to use it.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

I'm in a "dark zone" as to pricing, varies so much over the country and also day by day.
You've dealt with the 3-phase issues so you know what needs to be done, that might be a way to get a lower price since 3P is usually a deal killer for many.

Most any ready to run 14" BS will be in the low hundred of dollars since there are the most prolific size. Auctions can be tricky so I'd advise setting a top dollar amount and sticking to it. Consider what the cost of a phase convertor or motor swap will add to the total.
You can give it a once over by looking at the tires and spinning the wheels by hand. Usually the problem parts are the wheel bearings, guides, and the tires, the rest are generally lifetime parts.


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## rhodessam (3 mo ago)

splintergroup said:


> I'm in a "dark zone" as to pricing, varies so much over the country and also day by day.
> You've dealt with the 3-phase issues so you know what needs to be done, that might be a way to get a lower price since 3P is usually a deal killer for many.
> 
> Most any ready to run 14" BS will be in the low hundred of dollars since there are the most prolific size. Auctions can be tricky so I'd advise setting a top dollar amount and sticking to it. Consider what the cost of a phase convertor or motor swap will add to the total.
> You can give it a once over by looking at the tires and spinning the wheels by hand. Usually the problem parts are the wheel bearings, guides, and the tires, the rest are generally lifetime parts.


Thanks SG. I missed some of these a few years ago and I try not to be stupid more than once. I swapped motors on the drill press but I am learning on the vfds.


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