# Sawstop triggered by a staple, and Sawstop is offended that I'm unhappy.



## daveshilling (Apr 11, 2016)

Yesterday my brake triggered after touching a staple in dry wood. I called SawStop and they had an explanation ready to go for how even though this should be fine, it may have triggered the brake and that's my fault. They told me to send in the brake and they will evaluate it, primarily just to make sure my saw is working properly.

I went online to order some replacements and the shipping is $12 for an 8 ounce part. I called them to ask for free shipping since I'm already down $200 for a saw blade +brake (and lets not forget a $4000 table saw) , and they were shocked and confused that I would ask for something so over-the-top as free shipping after being told that cutting through a staple was okay, but perhaps not THIS time.

The sales girl was honestly confused that I would even think to ask.

I ask for a manager, she finds me the Vice President of operations. Today is inventory day at SawStop, so everyone is busy and irritable. VP gets on the phone and her first sentence is to tell me that free shipping is an unreasonable request. $12.00 is UNREASONABLE. Just send in my faulty brake and who knows, maybe they will send me a brake for free…blade not included. They already made it clear that they have no intention of doing so, unfortunately.

Good saws, ********************ty customer service. I know my finger is worth the hassle, but I guess Sawtop figured out that once they sell an ICS, they dont need consumer loyalty because I'll never have to buy another saw?

Perhaps they forgot that people talk to other people… be warned that the high cost of entry isn't finished when you buy your saw.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Oh well…....Glad ya have a SawStop?
Bill


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## daveshilling (Apr 11, 2016)

I was glad two days ago… today I'm just complacent. Ask me again when I touch the blade.


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## Mike_in_STL (Dec 8, 2016)

Another reason why I refuse to buy this design. You would think that for 4 grand, they could throw in a second unit out of the box. On the other hand, mind the spinny bits, they bite.


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## Knockonit (Nov 5, 2017)

wow, just wow


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## JCamp (Nov 22, 2016)

That sucks. No matter how good the product is if the customer service sucks it's not worth it 
Hope they make it right. If not send them this forum. Lol


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

I don't get it… the machine acted like it should have and the staple in the wood was your fault, not theirs - yet you want them to compensate you for your error? You knew up front about the limitations of the saw, and that maintenance costs for that machine was higher than normal, so I think your complaint is unreasonable IMO.

Cheers,
Brad


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## JADobson (Aug 14, 2012)

> I don t get it… the machine acted like it should have and the staple in the wood was your fault, not theirs - yet you want them to compensate you for your error? You knew up front about the limitations of the saw, and that maintenance costs for that machine was higher than normal, so I think your complaint is unreasonable IMO.
> 
> Cheers,
> Brad
> ...


My thoughts too.


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

What part you need is only 8 oz? I do think $12 for shipping something that could be thrown in a padded envelope is unreasonable, so is asking for free shipping on something if it isn't a standard thing.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

Having spent $4000 on a saw with this safety feature that worked as advertised $12 shipping is unreasonable? I understand being frustrated it tripped and the blade is trash as well as needing a extra brake unit. Still it could have been something important like a finger. A ER visit cost you $200 just to get in line for the nurse. If it did not come with a extra brake unit having a extra on hand seems like a good idea verses having the saw down for a length of time.


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## socrbent (Mar 9, 2012)

Dave, I hear your frustration at an unexpected expense, but I have similar feelings as Brad and JA. My dealings in the past with SawStop support have been good experiences. I'm glad I bought a SawStop.


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## daveshilling (Apr 11, 2016)

Well thats lovely for you gents who are so eager and willing to take responsibility, but Sawstop told me flat out that hitting a staple WILL NOT trigger the brake. I hit a staple, and the brake triggered. Simple as that. Yes, I could just not hit a staple, but Sawstop says "don't worry about it, our system knows the difference between a staple and your hand" so I didn't worry about it. Trusting the company who made the saw is unreasonable? You're welcome to your opinion, but I respectfully disagree.

Sawstop told me that a piece of the staple must've gotten between the blade and brake, and that staples SHOULDN'T trigger the brake, but oh, they do sometimes….. I agree, it was me that caused the blade to touch a staple, but it was also me who called Sawstop, asked if I can cut through a staple, and was told that it would be fine.

I'm sure many of you aren't familiar with the fact that touching a non grounded tiny bit of metal is okay on a sawstop, but they advertise this. $200 later, I now know that the word "generally" in their FAQ is their opportunity to tell me tough ********************.

Also, gimme a break, shipping gets waived at PLENTY of companies as a customer service tool.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> *What happens if the blade comes in contact with a nail or staple in the wood?*
> 
> Generally, the safety system will not activate when a nail or staple is cut. Although conductive, these objects are not large enough to cause the safety system to activate unless they are grounded to the table or operator when they contact the blade.


Source: From their FAQ

"Generally" means most of the time but not always. And you apparently knew there was a staple there, decided to leave it in place and cut through it anyway. Could have easily saved you some frustration by bypassing the safety mechanism for that cut, but didn't even do that. For what that staple is costing you, you could buy a nice used Unisaw and cut through all the staples you want without worry ;-)

Cheers,
Brad


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## daveshilling (Apr 11, 2016)

> *...Sawstop told me flat out that hitting a staple WILL NOT trigger the brake….*
> 
> *...I now know that the word "generally" in their FAQ is their opportunity to tell me tough ********************….*


Source: Me, a couple posts prior. No need to go to all that trouble Brad, I already pointed out the Generally clause. My staple was not grounded to the table or the operator, but great job.

I simply asked that since they gave me bad information over the phone, they cover $12 while I spent another $140 buying a replacement and a backup brake because I trusted their employee and didn't ask my lawyer to read the FAQ's.

I think some of you are missing the point. It's not that they didn't give me $12, its that after explaining the situation, they treated me like I was a lunatic asking for the moon and the sun and I wanted it hand-delivered by the CEO. It cost them more than that just to sit on the phone with me, trying to explain the obvious like Mr. Cheers up there.


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## Knockonit (Nov 5, 2017)

Bummer dude, you post it up and don't like the comments, shame on you, lol, not every one is gonna share your opinion.

shame it happened, and sales men will be salesmen, and if you've been around awhile, youd' know they tend to embellish items of interest during a sales pitch.

and bummer on the customer service, if that is the case, but again, may be how you presented it to them. 
I have no dog in the hunt, and probably would never purchase a saw that requires certain things ect, like this one, 
My uni saw of 3 decades is more than sufficient for my need.

Hope you get it sorted out, 12 bucks is a small amount to be peeved about.

again jmo
try to have a better day
Rj in Az


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

*I wish I had a Saw Stop on my saw !! (and it performed as advertised)*










*I would buy the salesman a steak dinner (IF I knew this would have happened)
and it would have saved my insurance company over $87,000.00 (so far)*

.


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## daveshilling (Apr 11, 2016)

> Bummer dude, you post it up and don t like the comments, shame on you, lol, not every one is gonna share your opinion.
> 
> shame it happened, and sales men will be salesmen, and if you ve been around awhile, youd know they tend to embellish items of interest during a sales pitch.
> 
> ...


 I just don't need to hear dumb stuff like "use bypass mode" and "well you knew there was a staple" because I didn't ask for advice on how to use my saw… this isn't the power tool forum, and I didn't post there for a reason. Obviously I've learned from the incident, so no need to explain it back to me, ynow?

There is a HUGE difference between "Generally, you can cut through a staple" and "DO NOT cut through a staple, although if you do, you may get lucky" .. and the SERVICE department told me a staple wont trigger the brake, not a sales person.

12 bucks is a small amount, you're right. So small that SawStops reaction was excessive. I have high expectations for customer service, you are welcome to expect less I suppose.


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## daveshilling (Apr 11, 2016)

> *I wish I had a Saw Stop on my saw !! (and it performed as advertised)*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about your accident John…you may not want to mention it here, or 8 LJ's are going to tell you how it was your fault and explain to you that you just need a Unisaw and to learn how to properly use it.


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

*Dave - it WAS my fault for cutting a small piece of wood without the splitter (riving knife) in place.
nobody to blame but my own careless stupid self. not a day goes by now that I don't think about
54 years of experience - then something like this happens. I should have known better.*

and yes, I also expect a high degree of customer service and understanding 
from companies that sell expensive equipment or a service.
I just spent $2700 on my Dodge Durango at the Dodge Stealership and I was not expecting anything
but the repair job and pick up my car….... needless to say, I was pleased with the complete detail job,
new windshield wipers, tankful of gas (20 gals) and freon in the A/C.
yes - it is probably buried somewhere in the price. but I was given the price quote prior to dropping the car off.

so - excellent customer service DOES exist - just not in your case….. 
sorry to hear about your equipment malfunction.
a nicely written letter to the company's president may get you a more positive response
than an irritated phone call with the office staff.
begin the letter with how pleased you are with the product and how it could have
saved you from permanent blindness and serious facial disfigurement.
then - ask about your Twelve Dollars.

.


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

You cut through the staple on purpose?


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

None of this would have happened if you had not cut thought a staple.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Beware the fine print.

Sawstop doesn't stop kickback. Unless the blade cut your face?


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

Ya never heard of Amazon(TIC)? What about google "sawstop brake free shipping" I got about 15 on the first page.

My son tripped mine twice by letting it contact my INCRA gage and he had adjusted it (to help me). Sucked and he replaced them, but if it ever is for real and you come in contact with that blade ROI is not going to matter to you.

Love mine, happy PRIME member  cheers


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## daveshilling (Apr 11, 2016)

> You cut through the staple on purpose?
> 
> - patcollins


No.


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## daveshilling (Apr 11, 2016)

> None of this would have happened if you had not cut thought a staple.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy


That is certainly accurate.


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## daveshilling (Apr 11, 2016)

> Ya never heard of Amazon(TIC)? What about google "sawstop brake free shipping" I got about 15 on the first page.
> 
> My son tripped mine twice by letting it contact my INCRA gage and he had adjusted it (to help me). Sucked and he replaced them, but if it ever is for real and you come in contact with that blade ROI is not going to matter to you.
> 
> ...


I've heard of Amazon, yes. Now try searching for the old brake (the clear one, not the blue one) for my CB saw…aaand nothing. Luckily a guy at Rockler remembered seeing a couple in the back somewhere, said they had been sitting there for years (they arent advertised as being for sale at Rockler anymore). So I was able to get a replacement brake same-day by pure chance.

Yeah, if I ever touch the blade, Sawstop will happily send me a new brake for free (even though its my fault?), and all extra costs will have been worth it, for sure.


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## daveshilling (Apr 11, 2016)

> *Dave - it WAS my fault for cutting a small piece of wood without the splitter (riving knife) in place.
> nobody to blame but my own careless stupid self. not a day goes by now that I don t think about
> 54 years of experience - then something like this happens. I should have known better.*
> 
> ...


Something tells me that if a VP is willing to tell me that I'm unreasonable, the recipient of my letter would do the same…I don't care about the $12, it was really just me offering them a scenario where they could provide a small goodwill gesture in exchange for giving me misleading info on the phone.

They could have said no without also trying to convince me I was insane, and that would be perfectly fine. 
They could have apologized for the misinformation instead of just saying "well that guy should have told you…"

Those of you who run your own business like I do know that there is a way to tell someone no, and it doesn't include brushing them off, telling them that you are too busy to deal with their absurd request, or making them feel stupid.

Like any organization, the good outweighs the bad and I'm sure most SawStop owners have had good experience when calling, like I have in the past. As it stands now, if someone asks me about my saw, I will be sure to elaborate on the "Generally" type of language they use when describing the pro's and cons.

And since I cant trust the saw to nip a staple on accident I bought a metal detector.. cheaper than a brake. I recommend other owners do the same!


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Beware the fine print.
> 
> Sawstop doesn't stop kickback. Unless the blade cut your face?
> 
> - TheFridge


Actually, they have made it incredibly easy to remove/install the splitter/guard, so i reckon they are safer in that regard as well.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

This is my point. _

This is your head. 0

Notice how it's over it?


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> This is my point. _
> 
> This is your head. 0
> 
> ...


No I don't, could explain please without insults?


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## unclearthur (Jul 4, 2013)

It would be interesting to know, how likely hitting a staple is to set off the brake on a sawstop - ie - what does "generally" mean? If its a 10% chance thats pretty high and maybe Sawstop should make it more clear - if its 1/10,000 and the OP was just unlucky thats a different story. Only they know, and "generally" doesn't tell us much.


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## mudflap4869 (May 28, 2014)

You asked them about the staple *before* you cut it with your saw? But *YOU* gambled. Now that just says a mouth-full, doesn't it?


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## OleGrump (Jun 16, 2017)

SO, Sawstop doesn't think it is "unreasonable" to sell a $4,000 table saw that fails to operate as advertised, but finds it "unreasonable" when a customer asks them to make good on their product, even AFTER admitting their saw malfunctioned…..??? ANY customer who has dropped four grand for a table saw should receive top notch customer service. Period. There are many work holding devices designed for use with table saws which, even if purchased separately would cost a HELL of a lot less than a Sawstop. Piss poor attitude on their part. Twelve bucks spent would have netted them a LOT more in good will value, instead of the bad will they're generating.


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

> SO, Sawstop doesn t think it is "unreasonable" to sell a $4,000 table saw that fails to operate as advertised, but finds it "unreasonable" when a customer asks them to make good on their product, even AFTER admitting their saw malfunctioned…..???
> - OleGrump


Believe me I am not a sawstop fan ( because I think they charge way too much for their lower end saws and their business plan to litigate themselves into growth) but to say it malfunctioned is ignorance.

If you understand how it senses flesh you have to realize there is a threshold that it decides to trigger at because the saw really can't tell the difference between flesh, dry wood, wet wood, metal etc. The staple just in combination with the wood, and yes even the humidity that day caused the trigger threshold to be put over the top and triggered. This is why there is a test function and a bypass switch. That test function doesn't work with a piece of metal in the middle of a board however.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

> This is my point. _
> 
> This is your head. 0
> 
> ...


I was referring to the fact that sawstops do not prevent kickbacks in reference to the injury posted.

This situation kinda sucks all around. It's easy to understand both points of view but I think they have a leg up because of the wording they used. Regardless, there is a need for them to be a little more understanding because of their wording and not be such dicks about it.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

No mention of, but what gauge staple was it. I'm sure that makes a difference.


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## daveshilling (Apr 11, 2016)

T


> It would be interesting to know, how likely hitting a staple is to set off the brake on a sawstop - ie - what does "generally" mean? If its a 10% chance thats pretty high and maybe Sawstop should make it more clear - if its 1/10,000 and the OP was just unlucky thats a different story. Only they know, and "generally" doesn t tell us much.
> 
> - unclearthur


I would also like to know that, if only for academic purposes.


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## daveshilling (Apr 11, 2016)

> You asked them about the staple *before* you cut it with your saw? But *YOU* gambled. Now that just says a mouth-full, doesn t it?
> 
> - mudflap4869


Actually when I very first bought the saw, i cut straight through an embedded nail in the edge of a piece of plywood that I didnt notice. I actually thought that this would trigger the saw, so I called Sawstop and asked them why the nail DIDNT trigger my saw… they told me then that the saw was working normally and that it will cut through a nail floating in wood, not grounding to the table or myself.

This time around, I was trying to cut a stapled end of the board off. I was too close for comfort, so I stopped short of the blade… unfortunately the staple curved closer to the blade on the underside, and I ended up hitting the staple anyways. It wasn't my intent to cut through it…

but AGAIN, my intent isnt relevant. They told me the saw can cut through a staple. Then later on, hid behind some FAQ language.


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## daveshilling (Apr 11, 2016)

> SO, Sawstop doesn t think it is "unreasonable" to sell a $4,000 table saw that fails to operate as advertised, but finds it "unreasonable" when a customer asks them to make good on their product, even AFTER admitting their saw malfunctioned…..??? ANY customer who has dropped four grand for a table saw should receive top notch customer service. Period. There are many work holding devices designed for use with table saws which, even if purchased separately would cost a HELL of a lot less than a Sawstop. Piss poor attitude on their part. Twelve bucks spent would have netted them a LOT more in good will value, instead of the bad will they re generating.
> 
> - OleGrump


As a small business owner, If I could buy customer loyalty and good advertising for only $12, I would certainly take that deal… Or at least, spend $0 but pretend like you have empathy.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> This is my point. _
> 
> This is your head. 0
> 
> ...


Ah, I see. I thought you were just attacking sawstop in general.

Sawstop sent me a new motor, 2 cartridges and a premium blade overnight from WA to MD. Over 60 lbs. I checked and that would be about $300 just for shipping. I think they are great.


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## daveshilling (Apr 11, 2016)

> Sawstop sent me a new motor, 2 cartridges and a premium blade overnight from WA to MD. Over 60 lbs. I checked and that would be about $300 just for shipping. I think they are great.
> 
> - RobS888


That's awesome. Like any company, they have their good moments and their bad. I just called on a bad day I guess.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

> That s awesome. Like any company, they have their good moments and their bad. I just called on a bad day I guess.
> 
> - daveshilling


Sounds like they have zero QA in how customers are compensated when their products fail independent of the conflicting information they offer about the product's ability. More than a little worrisome that a saw would need a motor to be replaced when not too old also!


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> That s awesome. Like any company, they have their good moments and their bad. I just called on a bad day I guess.
> 
> - daveshilling
> 
> ...


Not worrisome at all in my case, It caused a vibration, so they spent at least 1/2 the price of the saw making it right.

It would be foolish to take a couple data points and judge any company.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Working with way, way more than two points, these are just two additional!


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## JonU (Jan 10, 2018)

Bad service is bad. But that's the price of safety perhaps. I'd still choose my finger over some shipping charges.


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## GregInMaryland (Mar 11, 2010)

Ok, it took me to post 42 to realize that the discussion was about a staple and not Sapelle. I think I need better glasses.

Greg


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

> Ok, it took me to post 42 to realize that the discussion was about a staple and not Sapelle. I think I need better glasses.
> 
> Greg
> 
> - Greg In Maryland


ROFL


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