# Stanley #45 - 7 forms of fun in 1! - And other combination/moulding planes



## Mosquito

*The Stanley #45*









This thread will serve as a "companion" of sorts to the blog series that I'll be working on with regards to the Stanley #45. In the blog I will be taking pictures in a sort of step-by-step process for setting up and performing certain tasks with the #45. I will also include a video of me making the cut as well. The intent is for it to act as a sort of visual reference on how a task can be performed.

I present this forum thread as a means of discussion, learning, and sharing our experiences with the #45. If you've got specific questions, or things that you'd like for me to try and then post, I'd like to hear it here.



Blog Series

Introduction and References
Plowing a Groove
Match Plane (Tongue and Groove)



*Type Studies*

#45 Type Study by Gordon Muster - LINK
Patrick Leach's Blood & Gore - LINK
Hans Brunner's #45 type study - LINK



*Manuals*

#45 Manual from Hans Brunner Tools - LINK



*Other*

Parts list from Hans Brunner Tools (excerpt from manual) - LINK
Some reading about the slitter at FineWoodWorking - LINK
Replacement Parts from St. James Bay Tool Co. - LINK
Hollows & Rounds Evolution - LINK
Comparison between Veritas Combination Plane, and a Stanley #45 - LINK
Kenny's Google Drive for #45 Labels and things - LINK


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## Mosquito

I guess I'll just start things out with a picture drop


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## Dal300

Mos, this could prove to be a great thread, rivaling Handplanes, mallets or chiselers!

My question is on dating and identification of the different #45's. Can you or someone go into detail about how to go about this?

I ordered a book on planes, not sure which one, but there isn't enough information on the #45. I actually bought the book to help identify other Stanleys I look at.

The #45 seems to get short shrift in a lot of the Stanley nomenclature.

Thanks!


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## 33706

*And here's my small collection, all probably mid-20th century. *


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## 33706

Mos: 
Not sure if this is one of your links above: http://www.tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/stanley/comb-planes/45types/45types.htm


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## Mosquito

Thanks Dallas, I really like my #45, and was frustrated by the lack of good references online on how to use it (more than just words on the screen) so I figured, why don't I just do something about it…

The forum topic idea was Poopiekat's. I just had the blog going at first.

For dating a #45, I have found it to be more difficult than with bench planes. I like this type study by Stan Faullin, to get a general ball park for most of the types. After that, it gets a little more tricky, because it's a lot of trade mark differences from there on out. The difficult thing with that, is that they don't all seem to match those of the bench planes so it's a little more difficult.

I have ordered a #45 specific book, so we'll see what I can learn from that.

-

Edit, yup poopiekat, that's the one by Stan Faullin that I've got listed. That one is probably my favorite of the two I've found so far.


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## Dal300

I went to the type studies you listed and narrowed my #45 down to either a 9-11 or a 13-15. The problem is, there are some anomalies that don't follow through. 
I have the screw adjustable fence of the 12- up, and the SW logo of the 13-15, but the main casting under the tote looks more like the 9-11 as do the thumb screws.
It may be a frankenplane made up of a number of different models, although the fellow that owned it was in his 80's when he died and this one has obviously been used for many decades.


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## Mosquito

It's entirely possible that some parts are different. For example, my fence was broken and welded back together, perhaps something similar happened, and they just replaced the fence with a new one?

Have any pictures? Perhaps we could try to help narrow it down even further. The main casting pattern of 9-11 should be the same pattern as with 12+ (stippled). What does the depth adjuster have for texture around the outside?


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## 33706

There's quite a few videos on You-Tube, just do a search in You-tube for "Stanley 45 plane" and you'll see perhaps 20 videos, relevant to the care and use of the #45.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice post on the #45, Mos!


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## Dal300

I'll try and get some pictures after work today and put them up.


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## lysdexic

Mos, great post and idea. I will add to the conversation when I can.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks like a freight train in this pic…










Short rods installed, playing with a #115 asymmetrical iron from a #55. Didn't work very well…


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## Mosquito

is that one of the quarter round with beads ones? Mine came with an Ogee cutter, but I haven't been adventurous enough to try it…

What was the issue you had Smitty? Requires too deep a cut? That's what I figured the issue with them would be…


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## 33706

I've had some problems with certain cutters. Seems like some profiles really need for your lumber to be stepped down first with a rabbet plane in order to work right.
Hey, as a side topic, maybe somebody can explain what it takes to sharpen the complex cutter profiles. I have a few crummy old slipstones, but they really don't get the job done satisfactorily..


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## 33706

Smitty: I see you have a depth stop AND a slitter on the same mount. Way cool, can you use both at the same time?


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## Mosquito

As far as I am aware, the #45 cutters only included plow/straight cutters, beads, sash, and match, with a few reeding blades optional later. Not including the auxilery bottoms for hollow/round. I thought all the more complex cutters were intended for the #55, which has the vertically adjustable fence section, to support the asymmetrical cutters

For my beading cutters, I have used fine sand paper wrapped around different sized dowels to sharpen them. I don't have any slip stones. Just make sure you don't sharpen the quirks more than the curve for the beading, or you'll end up making the bead less than half round

-

The depth stop and slitter is standard issue. The depth stop is meant to be used while using the slitter. I've also used my slitter depth stop with the slitter flipped (pointing up) when I wanted the double bearing front and back depth stops. It does get somewhat close to the knuckles, though, which a few people commented on when I did my dado video.


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## woodworker59

I have a #45 and a #46 as well as the Craftsman 1080 I think that's the number they use.. the biggest thing I have noticed in using them is going slow and easy.. don't be in a hurry, let the tool do the work and don't try to eat more than you can chew at one time.. As far as the sharpening question on some of the profiles, it seems that the slipstones are the only way I have found to get them good and sharp, and again its go slow and take your time.. I really like the #45 and the #46, but have found that with some profiles, the old wooden planes just work better.. not always, just on some.. just my 2 cents.. love the post..I have found that most people would rather time a rope to them and use them for anchors instead of planes.. such a shame.. thanks Mos for shining a light on a nice tool… Papa
P.S. I am looking for a complete set of irons for the #46 skew plow.. if anyone has some please give me a shout.. I have three of them now and would like them all…. thanks.. .Papa


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## ksSlim

Is the Fulton 1080/85 a Sargent clone of the Stanley 45?
Haven't figured out how to post pics yet.


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## donwilwol

Sam, the 1080/85 is a copy of the 45/55. According to my book, the significant difference is the method of the cutter placement in the adjusting wheel.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'd love to have the H&R attachments and irons for the #45. Dreamy stuff, those are…


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## Mosquito

Yes they are… Someday, maybe, eventually… #62 or H&R bottoms for the #45…

The other way to look at it would be 9 router bits or the H&R bases and blades… hmmm, that doesn't sound as bad anymore


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Just one size of each, really. I base that on the snippets I'm seeing from the moulding via H&R planes that Lost Art recently published. From that, it sounds like even a quarter set of H&Rs is all you need to do hundreds of profiles. That'd be the way to go vs. the #45, but I still want the capability on the Iron Monster… (term of endearment, really!)


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## Mosquito

If I'm remembering correctly, there's 4 hollows and 4 rounds, and a bull-nose for the #45 (as far as specialty bases goes).

I'd also like some hollows and rounds, though… I think I want the H&R's for the #45 just because they made them, I can have them, and I want to lol


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## mochoa

You know what I want to know. How the heck did Studley cut these cove profiles around these small parts? Was it with one of those hand router scraper tools?


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## Mosquito

My bet would be on gouges… I wouldn't imagine you'd be able to do that effectively with a plane


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## donwilwol

my guess would be a beading tool. Probably one he made himself to.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Man, that's beautiful stuff. My luck, I'd get three of the four all shaped and then botch the final one…


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## DanKrager

Poopiekat, I'm with you pondering the proper sharpening approach. I polish on the face of molding cutters for router and shaper, but I don't know if that would be appropriate for these 45 cutters. By polishing on the face you don't change the profile, but you affect the thickness. 
I would have trouble using abrasives wrapped on a dowel because it is too easy to change the profile, especially in the tiny profiles some of these cutters have. There are also interior angles that are hard to reach even if you had slip stones, which I do. I have found a dental tool sharpener an RX Mini Hone, which is simply a variable speed vibrating holder that secures various shape stones and diamond plated rods. It does a rapid job of removing metal predictably and in tight corners. They are not very expensive. But is it appropriate to try to dress the profile? I have done so on badly disfigured cutters, trying to measure the outcome so it gets very close to the original, but as a matter of routine sharpening, not so much?
DanK


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## dbray45

To sharpen the inside profiles you use slip stones. Here is one source for gouges:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=33013&cat=1,43072,43071&ap=1

Also look at machine shop suppliers for the tool and die maker supplies. They make them in almost any profile.

The key is to sharpen as little as possible and choose your wood carefully, do not take thick shavings.


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## mochoa

What about just honeing the face and stropping off the burr with compound on leather?


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## paratrooper34

I use slipstones on mine. It is admittedly a pain in the butt, yet it does work. Takes some patience to get them sharp. But once you get them there, they should last for quite a while under normal use.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Decent pic of a cutter doing it's thing. I've only polished the backs of such profile irons so far to get good results.


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## Mosquito

Nice Smitty. When I used my beading cutter, I just polished the back as you did, and then used 2000 grit sandpaper wrappeed around a dowel, just to knock off any bur on the bevel side. Your results look great1


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## hhhopks

So how do you get started with these planes?
Unlike the hand bench plane, there are a lot more adjustments.
I have always stayed away from these planes in the past but now I am in deep water.

I attended the last day of this "Mother of all Plane Estate Sale" and end up with 5-6 of these types of planes couple months back. I know the blades are missing as well as the storage box. Since these planes have so many parts and not knowing much about them, I have no idea what parts may be missing. I figured, for $5.00/each I might able to put one together and buy the blades.

I'll start with the links above to see what I can learn and put together. This forum should help me a lot. Thanks for starting this forum. I'll be back with some pictures of my pile of junks later. You guys like junks. Right? Hopefully, with your help, I can turn one or two into a real treasure. If not, it's not end of the world.


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## Mosquito

hey hhhopks, if what you've got is a #45, the last page of this manual has an exploded view of a later model #45. The parts list isn't 100% written down, but the exploded view seems to have almost everything shown.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

$5/ea?? Holy cow, what a score! Common theme with #45 owners is EVERYONE is missing something!  here's to pulling together a working handtool, HH! Pics very welcome!


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## Mosquito

I got lucky, mine had a full set of cutters, with original cutter boxes, and all parts were there except the micro fence adjuster screw. Although, the fence was broken and welded back together, but it works fine, so it doesn't bother me except when I'm taking pictures lol


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That micro was missing on mine, too, but I found a sub…i was actually missing the center fence when I got it, too! Kinda key to the tool, don't ya think? ;-)


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## hhhopks

I hope these pics are true visual treats.

I have stored these planes in the basemenet for the last couple of months:













































Here's a shot from the other side.


















This is a 248













































There are 4 50s.









Looks like there are 5 45s









Yes, $5 each. Evidently, no one wanted it. It was a last day special.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, wow!!!!


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## DanKrager

Yah, OH WOW! Tell me that's not a TOOL GLOAT! (wiping drool)
DanK


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## Mosquito

Very nice! I really like that early model (with the knob on the main body, and not on the fence)

The pictures aren't the easiest to tell, but I am pretty sure you've got enough parts between all of those for at least 1 whole #45, and possibly even 2.


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## shampeon

Picked up a nice #45 with the floral pattern recently. No surprise, but it's missing some blades and one of the short rods.

I'm thinking of picking up some 1/8" thick O1 tool steel in 1/4" and 1/2" width from McMaster-Carr to make some more 3/8", 1/4", 7/16", and 1/2" plow cutters, and some 25/64" drill rod for the short rod. But I'll have a ton of extra steel afterward, if anyone wants to collaborate. I've never heat-treated steel before, so this might be fun.


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## GMatheson

I'm planning on picking up this 45. Just wondering if most of the important parts are there. 
http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-tools-hand-tools-Stanley-No-45-Combination-Plane-W0QQAdIdZ429517453


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## Mosquito

GM, from what I can tell, it looks like it's missing short rods, slitter, slitter depth stop, and the second front depth stop. Overall, though, I'd say it looks pretty good. The cutter box looks to be in fantastic shape. I didn't count the cutters, though, so I'm not sure if they're all there or not, but it looks like almost all of them are.

For the short rods, maybe you could hook up with Ian about making some replacements… ;-)


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## donwilwol

45 short rods, http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-PAIR-OF-SHORT-RODS-FOR-STANLEY-NO-45-PLANE-/230889929893?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c21cbca5


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## GMatheson

Thanks Mos. guess I know what I'm getting for Christmas now.


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## harshest

I just got a pretty decent sweetheart era 45 and I am wondering if there is an easy way of removing the wooden handle on the main body. The wood is fine but the metal body is pretty rusty.

If there is no easy way to remove it, how do you suggest that I "waterproof" it for an Evaporust bath?

Any suggestions?


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## Mosquito

harshest, the answer may depend on how adventurous you are…

I know Don recently had a restoration that required replacing the tote, so removing his was made easier by the fact that it was already half missing.

For actually removing a usable tote, I think you'd have to be able to drill out and replace the brass pins that hold it in place, somehow. I'm not sure if you'd really be able to effectively "evaporust-proof" it, though.


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## mochoa

I say tape it up and go navel jelly.


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## harshest

Will the navel jelly do any harm to the remaining nickel plating?


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## mochoa

I dont think it will unless there is rust underneath it. I've used it on planes and it doesn't strip off all the japaning or anything. Only where there is rust.


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## donwilwol

It seems there where 2 different style of pins holding the tote on a 45. If your pins go all the way through, and you can see them on both sides of the handle, you can probably drive them out. If you can only see one side (like mine where) go with Mauricio suggestion.


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## harshest

Mine only has the pins on one side. I am going to first try the naval jelly.


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## theoldfart

seen a lot commentary on #45 & 55. I've been using a Record 405 for the last two years. Got it with a full set of standard cutters, a full set of additional cutters and a set of I think #10 hollow and round. Once you get it dialed in its a dream!
I've done a entry ceiling of Doug Fir t&g with a bead, frame and panels for a blanket chest and a tool chest.
Only problem is the cost of the other three H & R's. best I've seen is about $100 to $125 per,


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## Mosquito

heh, yeah… the H&R irons and bottoms for the #45 get quite expensive in a hurry too.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sounds wonderful, OF. Pics? I'd love to see a group shot!


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## theoldfart

Here are some pics of a 405








the plane:








Standard blades:








additional blades:








H&R and guides and long bars:


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, very nice tool and chest in those pics! Thanks, Fart!


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## Mosquito

Dang… Shiny! Awesome grab


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## mochoa

Wow, nice score Old Fart!


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## mochoa

45 action for the records.


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## Mosquito

nice, strong showing there Mauricio


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Half laps, great rabbets, random widths and beading detail. All with hand tools. My friends, it doesn't get better than this. If that last shot of boards laid side by side doesn't stir something deep inside, you have no business looking at this thread.

Incredibly strong, Maur!


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## donwilwol

+1 Smitty. There is some traditional type talent showing through there. Maur, I'll bet you were smiling ear to ear as those pieced fit together.


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## mochoa

Thanks folks, I certainly was smiling. The beads were fun to cut and I use the widths of boards I had on hand without too much concern for uniformity. Just a couple of them were too narrow so I glued them up. Then I alternated wide and narrow. I think it works visually.

I can't lie though, I cut the rabets on the TS, sorry for the let down…


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## lysdexic

Oh the shame :^)


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## Mosquito

Ok, I'll take a vote on that one… does Mauricio get banned from this thread after that?



Oh well, you at least used the #45 for the visible part


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sorry, Maur, you're out for that admission…


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## donwilwol

I'm with you Maur. Some days its about the quit, some days you want the chips to fly!


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## theoldfart

not going to throw stones, I did a doug fir ceiling and beaded it with a 405. however started with t&g. did however t&g my ATC bottom by hand
kevin


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## DanKrager

IMHO, I think he gets a graceful pass because of the honesty!
DanK


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## mochoa

Thanks Dan, You know how it is guys, sometimes you just got to get it done!


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## mochoa

I will say I would have gotten better results by hand.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

THAT'S what we wanted to hear! Excellent, you're back in.


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## DanKrager

+1 Smitty! 
You see, cutting by hand you take more time to THINK about things. If you want to make mistakes really fast, use a computer!
DanK


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## mochoa

Thanks for the mercy guys… 

Your right Dan, for some reason I forget to use my brain when using power tools. I put the wrong face of the board against the fence.


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## Mosquito

Little working while the snow slowly drifts down…


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## grfrazee

For those of you looking to reproduce cutter boxes, I've made a blog post with replacement graphics I did based on the originals. Most of the original content I used for tracing is courtesy of Mosquito and Gshepherd.


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## theoldfart

Mos, send some of that snow my way! Backcountry skiing is none existent right now, even good ice for climbing is in short supply.
kevin


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## Mosquito

No way! We're only at around 5-6" of snow, and we're something like 27" below average :-( I haven't gotten to go snowmobiling in 2 years


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## theoldfart

just off topic by about 10. is the 55 worth it? prices seem realy high. any thoughts Mos?
ps just got two feet of fluffy white!


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## Mosquito

#55's get complicated. Trying to make sure you've got one with all the parts may be a bit of a task. I want a #55, but I think that's because I like using my #45 so much, and I've gotten used to what it takes to get things set just right and what not. I have been keeping an eye out for a good deal on one, but haven't wanted to drop the cash on it yet.

We got a good couple inches of snow this afternoon, and slated to get some more overnight


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## grfrazee

I saw a couple complete #55s (including the cutter boxes with pretty intact decals) go for ~$160-180 at a recent auction. If I had a little more money to spend that day, one of them may have been mine…sigh.


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## paratrooper34

I have a 45, but am a little unfamiliar with the 55. What is the difference(s) between the two? Can a 55 do anything that a 45 cannot?


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## Mosquito

Yes Mike. The #55 has to sets of fences (left and right) as well as a vertically movable sliding body section. This allows for many different profiles to be used. With the #45 you need special bottoms to do anything that's not mostly straight across. With the #55, there were quite a few more molding cutters for it.


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## theoldfart

Mike,
Check this out.
http://www.tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/stanley/comb-planes/55man.pdf
and this
http://www.tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/stanley/comb-planes/55picts/55picts.htm
kevin


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## paratrooper34

Thanks Gents!


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## amite

Wondering how old my plane is…the fence has "45", nothing else, knob on fence, floral pattern.


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## theoldfart

Need pics


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## Mosquito

agreed, would need pics to be sure, but floral pattern with knob on the fence would likely put it as a Type 7-8, between 1896-1908


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## amite

Please overlook rust.


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## Mosquito

Yep, I'd still say Type 7-8. It looks like it's in really good shape. Should make an excellent user


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## paratrooper34

Chris, what reference do you use to date the 45s? I think I have a newer one, but it would be nice if I could nail it down to a time period.


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## Mosquito

I use this #45 Type Study by Stan Faullin

There's another one listed in the original post of this thread as well, but this is the one I prefer


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## paratrooper34

Again, thanks, much appreciated. Now to do a little research.


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## Mosquito

amite brought another type study to my attention. I've added it to the list in the original post.

Hans Brunner's #45 type study

Thanks amite.


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## GMatheson

I've been working on replacing the box I have been storing my 45 in since it's not the right size and doesn't close and cardboard ain't the prettiest.










I am doing the whole box by hand and so far I have the dovetails cut for two corners. Since I was finished for the day I thought I would see how the plane fits.










So far so good. Hopefully I can get the rest of the dovetails cut tomorrow.


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## Mosquito

Lookin' good GMath, is it oak?

I wanted to do one of those Roy Underhill 11-groove boxes, or whatever it was. Seemed fitting given it's for a #45


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## GMatheson

It's a mix from the scrap pile. Think it's oak, ash and possibly butternut and will have a pine bottom.


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## Mosquito

I was going back and forth between asking if it was oak or ash, good to hear it involves both lol.

That's a very nice lookin' #45 too.


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## GMatheson

Here's a better look at the wood










I was going back and forth between the 11 groove box and a mini version of a tool chest and went with the dovetailed chest for this one.

After this box I will be making another box for my veritas plow plane and might give the 11 groove box a try.


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## Mosquito

Very nice. I really like the grain patterns in the ash


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## Mosquito

I started working on a box for my #45 tonight, as well as getting an update together for my #45 blog


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## GMatheson

Got a bit more work done on my 45 box. Case is all glued up and I started on the bottom trim. Somewhere along the way I decided to make it a mini version of the anarchist tool chest. This is my first time dovetailing trim but I think I will do it more often from now on.


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## Mosquito

Box is looking good GMath. Mine isn't anywhere near as fancy lol


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## GMatheson

It only looks fancy from afar. I need a lot more dovetail practice. Lots of gaps everywhere. I also had a lot of tearout when making the groove for the bottom panel. I watched your video after so I guess I know why now. Still have a lot to learn about using the 45. Baby steps


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## Mosquito

I'm just using grooves, rabbets, and screws for mine lol No dovetails. Lots of #45 action though


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## BigRedKnothead

I sure do wish I had a 45….;-)


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## theoldfart

Bigred,
save some $ go find a Record 405. Same thing only better blades.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Save $ I get, but better irons? Explain, pls.


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## theoldfart

Smitty, have to leave right now. Will post a response tomorrow.


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## Mosquito

I'm curious to the same, Smitty.

-

Here's the box I've been working on the past 2 nights


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Took pics of my #45 storage solution. It's in the Big Drawer of the bench cabinet.










Sliding tray at the top.










Below is the chisel roll, plane, rods and iron boxes.


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## Mosquito

Nice Smitty.

Here's my other "storage" solution for my #45 (which I'll probably put my other #45 there and have one in the box, or put the other #46 there, or something).










There's a 3/4" groove that the fence sits in


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## Mosquito

If anyone is bored, I made a little shelf and recorded working on the #45 box with a webcam… First part is about 15 minutes, and the second part is about 12.5 minutes


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## donwilwol

I need to re-work my #45 storage. Right now my original is in the box I made for it, sitting on the floor, with the cherry refurb sitting on top. I need to make a box big enough for both.


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## BigRedKnothead

Pretty cool Mos. I skipped ahead on a few parts, but it was nice to see a 45 at work. Also interesting to see how a guy works in an apt. with hand tools alone. I'm sure I'll get one in the near future, but my budget is pretty specific the next few months.


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## Mosquito

Thanks Red. Yeah half an hour is a bit much for just watching someone work with out explaining anything lol. I really enjoy using my #45, so I think this box was almost more of an excuse to use the heck out of my #45 on the new bench lol


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## mochoa

Pretty cool video Mos, I enjoyed watching!


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## Mosquito

Thanks Mauricio. I think I'll post a much more condensed recap video once I get the lid and internals made.


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## theoldfart

Just used the ovlo cutter to make some molding for a six board chest:








Finished product:


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## CL810

That's really nice Kevin.


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## mochoa

Wow, nice!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Can we get a pic of the cutter used? 'I ain't got no ovolo cutter…' in my two-box iron set, want to create that kind of wonderful trim!


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## Mosquito

That looks great!

My cutter set didn't come with an ovolo cutter either. But my #55 did… hehe


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## theoldfart

Smitty, used the larger 3/8" cutter









Need to make a home for the cutters in this box I got for a buck at a tag sale


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## theoldfart

Mos, one of theses days, a 55, a 46, and a 444!


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## Mosquito

Nice set of cutters you have there. And I officially ban you from the thread for having hollow and round bases and not sharing! (No, I don't)

That would make a sweet cutter and accessory box.

And yes… someday I hope to find a #444, that would be awesome. (I've already got the other two ;-) )


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Awe, man! For a BUCK??? That warrants a massive You Suck, dude!

I've thought long on a #46, jury is still out but it's tilting towards 'no.' I don't think a #55 is in my future, either. I think I'd rather go down the woodie H&R path.


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, clarification is in order here. The box was empty! I wish I could have gotten all that for a dollah


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You got just the box for a buck… Ohhhhh….

Well, Sir, I humbly retract the congratulatory "YS", my bad.

It is a fine set of cutters, nonetheless, and your moulding cut looks great. Thanks for the claification!


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, From Patrick's October list:
http://www.supertool.com/forsale/oct/t43.jpg


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah… and if I had the cash, I'd be all over it. But I don't right now :-(

He had another set a few months ago too, I wonder if it didn't sell


----------



## theoldfart

Don't think its the same set, the other one had a repair on the 10


----------



## DonBroussard

I've been looking for some cutters for my '45. Big shout out to JayT for flagging this package of cutters that were listed on Etsy. I got the whole bunch for under $40, including shipping. Pictures below are of the cutters in as-received condition.










There are 32 total cutters, six of which don't have the notch for the depth adjustment. The six un-notched cutters are on the bottom row, on the right.

The one on the end is clearly not a '45 cutter, but I'm not sure what it is.



















Here's are close ups of that item. It looks like "Barton" in cast letters on the top.










I think these are sash cutters, but I'd like verification.



















This piece also might not be for the '45-it looks like a mortising chisel. Note the groove over the length of the part. It's 3/8" wide.

Thanks in advance for any help in id'ing the unknown cutters.


----------



## Mosquito

Yes, those are the sash cutters.

The last two I think are for an older wooden plow plane, but I may be wrong

Overall I'd say that's a pretty good set for under $40


----------



## Mosquito

Since someone still hasn't fixed embedding videos yet, I'm just going to share this link…





I'll probably be reshooting the video with my new camera before I update the blog, and hopefully I'll be able to embed the video by then, so I can update the blog with out including a "go watch it there and hopefully come back" link…


----------



## WayneC

Pretty cool although I would think the 48 and 49 would have a setup advantage if you happened to have both.


----------



## DonBroussard

@Mos-Thanks for id'ing the sash cutters for me. Also, I watched the video you just posted on cutting a tongue and groove -well done!


----------



## Mosquito

Yes, a #48/49 would have the setup advantage, but they don't do beading, plowing at any spacing, rabbeting, slitting, or dadoes though 

Thanks Don 

My cheap camera tripod collapsed on me a few weeks ago and broke the lens on my old camera, so I ended up getting a new one (and new tripod) rather than have that one repaired. The new one shoots HD video, so I was thinking I might redo the video in slightly better quality…


----------



## WayneC

Bummer on the camera. Good that you were able to replace it.

Agree on the overall versatility of the 45. Since I have T&G planes as well as a 45, I will probably reach for the T&G planes first.


----------



## WayneC

BTW. I ordered short rods and 12" rods for my 45 from St James Bay yesterday along with some other Misc. Still need a few odds and ends. Planning to make a combination plane box to hold my assorted combination planes.


----------



## theoldfart

Some of the 55 cutters at NH plane parts look particularly interesting. It looks like they will work with my 405.


----------



## Airframer

Got my #45 cleaned up finally.

Now that it is a little easier to see some detail in it can anyone help me date this one? Also can any of you with experience with this plane tell me if any parts are missing and if I even put it back together correctly? I realized as soon as I got it taken apart than I should have taken pics so I could remember where all the different screws went lol.


















































































And I do believe this cam is missing something…


----------



## DanKrager

Yup. Cam is missing two pieces. One is a bullet that sits under the tightening screw that is also missing. The bullet is soft and presses against the rod to secure it firmly without scarring the rod. If you find the screw you can easily make the bullet.
DanK


----------



## Mosquito

Alrighty, let's see what we can answer here lol

For the type/date it seems like either a late Type 11, or an Early type 12, or a Type 12 with a different Fence. The "Script" logo on the skate is Type 12, so around 1915, but they also started the micro adjustment screw on the fence, which is obviously not there on yours.

Looks like you might be missing the slitter, the main depth stop, and maybe a few thumb screws.











is the incorrect screw for that location. What should be there is #4.
is an incorrect screw for there, it should be a thumb screw (like #3) 
is incorrect, and should be the same screw as the other rod (either #1 or #2)
is incorrect, but would still be a thumb screw.(see 2nd image below)

There should also be a different, larger, and threaded depth stop where #2 is holding the depth stop. It has a knurled thumb nut on the top, that slides into the groove there. Parts as per below:









The small depth stop is interchangeable with the beading depth stop (the long one) where the long one is currently installed. The thumb screw for there looks like this:









I believe either #1 or #2 may go with the cam rest, as it looks like the rest are correct.


----------



## Airframer

Wow, thanks Mos.. so it looks like I am missing 1 thumbscrew, The Slitter and the washer that goes with the slitter thumbscrew and the entire front depth adjuster assembly. Plus the bullet and possibly the screw for the cam. Sound about right?


----------



## WayneC

Eric. You might want to check ST. James Bay Tool Co if you cannot find what you are looking for on NH Plane parts.


----------



## Mosquito

That sounds about right. The bullet is just a small piece of brass rod, that's somewhat pointed, so like Dan said, making your own would be easy. I think one of the two screws (#1 or #2) fit in the cam rest, so I'd check that before trying to find one specifically listed on eBay.

They're all relatively common parts, so I don't think finding them on eBay would be too difficult.

You may also be missing 1 beading cutter too.


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## Airframer

I was able to find everything that was missing on nhplaneparts pretty easily. I did spent twice what the 45 cost me on them though lol.. (that still isn't very much).

Just waiting on the USPS now on those. How critical are any of these missing parts in the performance of the plane? I.E. Can I use it for T&G till they show up?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Someone need these parts? PM me…


----------



## Mosquito

The depth stop that Smitty just posted is probably the only part that's "important" to the planes function, but not "required" since you have the other depth stops. That one is just a lot easier to fine tune.


----------



## mochoa

Mos thanks for the video, I picked up a couple of good tips from it. I like the idea of lining up the groove cutter with the already cut tongue. The tip on setting the depth stop is pretty cool to.

I say sure, the 48/49 is much easier to use but if you're not doing T&G very often then the #45 is fine. But then if you really love landplanes you will eventually end up with both anyway.

Eric, that #45 is looking pretty clean man, very nice.


----------



## Airframer

Damn you Smitty! I just ordered one from nhpp on eBay!


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, this is the book you want to look for. It covers all of the RECORD PLANES but the 405 section is applicable to the 45 and all its clones:









It covers all of the cutters including the H&R's and nosing tool. It also shows how to make most molding profiles using the 405/45. Another good book is Matt Bickford's.


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## Mosquito

That is a very good reference book. These are the 3 that I've got, for #45 information and references










One of which is always displayed in the corner on my Roubo book stand


----------



## theoldfart

I've heard people mention Heckel, how is it?


----------



## Airframer

Stupid question of the day.. are the rods an odd size or is it possible for me to make a couple short rods out of some round stock?


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## theoldfart

Thats one for Mos, I don't know.


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## Mosquito

You can certainly make some short rods out of round stock, I believe I've seen someone here do it before. May even be previously posted in this thread, I'd have to look.

The Heckel isn't bad, it was a little more difficult to find, and a little more expensive than the other two, but is essentially a very good type study, with 2-3 pages per type. Also has a lot of catalog and marketing pictures and info, but not much on how to use it (just images of the manual it came with). It's pretty useful for the history and typing of them, though.


----------



## Mosquito

Looks like it was Ian (Shampeon) in post #43
25/64" rod is what he picked up… maybe if he's still watching he can post his experience with it


----------



## theoldfart

I used the Planecraft to teach myself how to use the plane. Take a look at Matthew Bickford's book. He makes wooden planes and he gives a really good foundation on molding profiles are designed, and then how to execute those designs. You can get a download at Lost Art Press.


----------



## Airframer

Don kindly pointed me to a BIN on some short rods that were cheaper than any round stock I could get so those are incoming too. Once all the parts arrive I will have a complete #45 minus the beading cutter Mos mentioned but the blades will come over time.

And yes, you were correct on the screw and the cam. They do go together and I just measured and if anyone is curious the diameter of the brass bullet is 7/32". Not sure of the length but I have started to manufacture the bullet for the cam out of a 1/4" brass rod. I need to chuck it into my drill press and sand off 1/32" and polish it up but that won't be too hard.

So… what is the cam used for exactly?


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## Mosquito

The cam rest is used for when you're plowing a groove, or bead further from the edge of the work piece. It's supposed to help prevent you from rocking the plane over, since you'll be so far from the fence, registering it with the fence for vertical won't be the easiest.

Figure 6 on page 4:
http://www.tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/stanley/comb-planes/45man.pdf


----------



## theoldfart

Its used for support when either the middle fence is not used or in close and you need help holding the plane steady


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## Airframer

Ahh, cool. That is not even close to what I was thinking it was for lol.


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## Airframer

Finished fixing up the cam. Cut off a piece of 1/4" brass rod.. also noticed the rod was made by Stanley so that makes this OEM right? 



















Chucked it into my drill press and using a combination of files, sand paper (120 - 2000) and some rubbing compound I got myself a 7/32" bullet like item.










Guessed at the length and cut it off. Turns out my guess was right on. Again, if anyone is curious this is 5/8" long. You could probably get away with 1/2" too but I wouldn't go any shorter than that.



















Slipped it inside and gave it a test run.. works swimmingly!



















I can't wait for my other parts to arrive and try this puppy out!


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## WayneC

I ordered short rods from St James Bay tool earlier in the week as well as a pair of 12" rods. Will report back when I get them in hand.


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## Mosquito

nice work Eric. Might have to hit you up if I can't find mine lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sorry Eric, I wasn't fast enough on the 'do you need' post. I do have it if anyone needs it. Free, just didn't want to throw it out…


----------



## Tim457

Hey, question for you combination plane lovers. Patrick Leach savages these in his B&G. Now I know that's just one guys opinion, but what about the arguments he makes like having the separate planes is better, the skates making the mouth essentially open like a chisel plane, etc.

They sure seem to work a lot better than he makes them out to. Thanks for the videos Mos.


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## JustJoe

*but what about the arguments he makes like having the separate planes is better*
The blood/gore website is great for beginner info and quick ID. But don't mistake opinions there for facts. And 
Mr. Leach has a monthly mailing list he can send you of some very nice expensive tools. (I've bought a few - everything is always as described) It would be a poor business model for him to say that you can get by with just one, when he can tell you how awful this tool is and then show you how for just 2-3 grand he can get you into a set of 20 different planes that can do the same thing.


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## Mosquito

Joe has a point lol

Another thing, yes, it is essentially like a chisel plane I guess, since the skates make for a pretty much wide open mouth, but it doesn't really seem to be that big of an issue.

My other argument for why it doesn't really matter is, when you cut a rabbet, dado, groove, or T&G chances are you'll be putting the edge of another board into whatever was just cut, which hides it anyway. If I could afford separate planes for everything, I probably would too. It's a bit finicky setting up the #45 for various tasks, but the fact of the matter is, I don't have the money, or realistically the space, to have all the single planes for doing everything the #45 can.

Plus, to me it's just a fun plane to use 

Great question, Tim, I look forward to hearing other peoples' responses.


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## Airframer

*Smitty* - No biggie lol. I am always a day late and such..

*Mos* - Would be happy to make you one if you need it. I did notice that they are only a buck at St James Bay though. No clue how much shipping would be from there.

Who has ordered replacement parts from there anyway besides Wayne? How is the shipping and are the parts correct? I am tempted to order a #40 cap from them but for $40 I want to know if it will actually work or not.


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## Mosquito

I've bought replacement #46 irons, and a #80 scraper blade, but both were through eBay.

I was disappointed by the first set of #46 irons I got… I mean, there's "requires sharpening" and then there's this:









About 1/2 the irons were similar. The 2nd set of irons still required a fair bit of work, but they were initially much better. The other thing is that the edges weren't that nice, still relatively rough, and not all irons were as exact as I would prefer.

That said, though, I believe it was Smitty who brought up the point that I'm glad that they make replacement parts for a lot of these tools that are hard to find, even if they're not perfect quality.

Should also note that it only took 3-4 eBay messages back and forth and a couple days and they sent me a new set.


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## mochoa

Good points in defense of the #45. But I would add that it is actually not that finicky to set up. Sure the T&G plane is not as turn key as a dedicated T&G plane but I have not found it hard to set up for any of the rabbets or beads I've cut. I mean, how often do you really cut a T&G?

Also, it looks complicated but it really isn't in my opinion. I've always gotten good results with it and one thing I love is that the fence has never slipped on me.

Some examples of the #45's handy work:


































I mean it even has a micro adjuster in the fence! What other dedicated rabbet or plow plane has that?


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## Mosquito

I guess what I meant was it's a little finicky to set up compared to a dedicated plane. It adds a few steps over just grabbing it off the shelf and going to work, but I don't see that as bad, since I enjoy it as a hobby


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## theoldfart

I'm of the same mind as Mos, I can do most anything I want with the one plane, I'm a hobbyist. If I were running a shop it would be a different story, set up time is overhead, better to just grab a plane and go.


----------



## JustJoe

mosquito - are those from St. James Bay?


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## Mosquito

Joe, those two were two if the irons from the set of #46 cutters I bought from St James Bay, yes


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## JustJoe

That's disappointing. He's up in the Phoenix area a few hours north of me and I'd heard great things. I don't do ebay though and when I used his website last year to email him asking if prices on a few things were current I never got a response so I wasn't sure he was still in business.


----------



## WayneC

Those look pretty rough. I wonder how the 66 cutters that I won on eBay this morning will look. Had I of known this I probably would have paid the extra money and gotten the LN set of cutters.


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## Mosquito

I won't speak for Smitty, but I believe he had ordered something specific from St James Bay and it took quite a while before they sent them out…

The second set of cutters were no where near this bad, and they sent them out right after they said they would, so it wasn't an overall bad experience, just not as good as it could have been, I think.


----------



## WayneC

I placed an order for the two sets of rods, and wide blades for the #48 and #49 Thursday. They said the order would ship towards the latter part of next week. Seemed like nice guys on the phone. See how it goes.

I put a minimum bid in on the 66 blade set and saved about $10 over their retail price. Their #66 blades are about $2 less than Lie-Nielson. If I had not put the bid in early in the week I would have just purchased the LN blades from Craftsman Studio. The LN 66 blades are from thicker stock than standard blades. I did get some blank LN blades this week. They seem pretty nice.


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## Airframer

That's good information there. I guess it's just a matter of how quick you need the part and kinda a toss up as to how it will arrive? I did notice that their #45 Blade Blanks are listed as "untempered" on their site. I'll probably stick to trolling ebay for blades and parts for now.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I ordered rods for the #444 and it took nearly a year from St James Bay. But they were the only game in town.

The #45 isn't hard to set up compared to the #50, for example, and that's usually considered to be a plane with a lesser learning curve than the #45. I like the #45; I remember the first time I used it after seeing the right way to use it (thanks, Roy!) and laughing at how easy it was. That's the first time that happened, with the only other time being the #48 T&G plane…


----------



## Tugboater78

Thanks for the video even though I cantwatch it till I get home, it will be a learning experience. My 45 has yet to be put to use but I have some future projects that it will need to be put to use.


----------



## Mosquito

lol not a problem. Hopefully it'll be useful…

I'm trying to decide what I want to do for the next video, done plowing and T&G… debating if I want to do one on rabbets, since it's mostly the same as a groove, just further over…


----------



## Airframer

I couldn't help myself. Sharpened up the 1/4" plow blade and set about cutting a groove in a test scrap just to get my feet wet. You guys are right… not too hard at all! Kinda fun too!






























Might spend all of tomorrow honing all the rest of the blades. Most need brand new bevels ground in them so that will be fun…


----------



## Mosquito

lol there you go! It is fun… lots of fun… I've had a few projects where I incorporated joinery or beading that I could use the #45 on, just so I could use the #45 lol


----------



## Tugboater78

I have an outfeed table for my tablesaw that I am designing to be panel frame and some other.fancy Joubert, I'm sure it willbe used on that endeavor. Not sure why gonna make outfeed so fancy but I need as much storage in every piece of shop furniture I can come up with, started with simple design and just went further. Sketchup is a big help.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mos, how about a video on using the slitter?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

From B&G:

Many folks have no idea what the slitting cutter is used for, nor are they appreciative of what a clever and powerful little gizmo this thing is. It, along with its pressed steel depth gauge, are usually MIA, but replacements are fairly easy to find. Once you use the slitting cutter, you'll realize just how cool it is, and your fingers will forever stay attached to your hands since you won't have to resort to that dangerous spinning blade that sticks up from a cast iron table to rip thin strips of wood. The slitting cutter and depth stop are attached to the plane in a milled area located at the right rear of the plane, just forward of the handle (earlier models attach the slitting cutter over the extra long rear arm). The fence is used to position how far into the wood the slitting cutter does its slitting thing, and the depth stop controls how deeply into the wood the slitter goes. With the slitting cutter extended below the stop, all it takes is a few passes to cut a thin strip off a larger piece of wood (if the wood is thick, you usually run the slitter from both faces). This function is very useful for slicing beads from the wood so that you can use them to decorate whatever your mind can imagine.


----------



## WayneC

Hmmm. +1 on the video. I have at least two slitters in my boxes of cutters…lol


----------



## donwilwol

I'd like to see that as well.


----------



## Mosquito

Dang it … That means I have to figure that one out! I've used it twice so far, with not a whole lot of success, so it'll probably be an interesting one to learn


----------



## DanKrager

I learned about the slitter's powerful potential splitting interior sash mullions. It is just too simple! Cut appropriate sized grooves (plow) on both sides of a stick, cut the desired profile on all four edges, and slit them apart in the middle of the plow. A pass or two on each side and they're apart as clean as can be. Eliminates the allowance for blade width when using a rip. The sash cutters are actually harder to do because they cut so much material at once. 
Beads and quarter rounds are slick too. 
DanK


----------



## mochoa

I recently saw a video on Japanese woodworking where he used a cutting gauge like that. He scored a deep line on each side then snapped the piece off, then he just cleaned it up with a plane.


----------



## Mosquito

I used a cutting gauge to trim some hammer veneer work I did at a Lie Nielsen show, and I believe Roy Underhill uses a cutting gauge like that from time to time


----------



## Tim457

Thanks guys. The 45 and especially 55 just seem so expensive. I guess the other problem is I'd have to bring the parts diagram with me everywhere I go rust hunting to make sure I got a complete one. Of course if anyone is looking to get rid of a complete user 45…


----------



## Mosquito

I think Don W has a few for sale at the moment…


----------



## Tim457

Looks to be just one left, not really sure if it's complete. I need to start doing my homework I guess.


----------



## donwilwol

the one I have left is plane and fences only. its not even close to complete.


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, take a look at this posting. Roy Underhill's video uses a 45.
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/53825


----------



## Mosquito

My bad, I didn't notice that they were "sold, pending payment". Oops

Kevin, that post was how I discovered that there were episodes I hadn't seen yet  I saw one in there that had a #55 as the video thumbnail … :-D


----------



## Mosquito

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1895-Stanley-No-45-Combination-Plane-Rosewood-Fence-Beading-Rabbet-Slitting-NICE-/121191337289?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c37910d49

No cutters, but not a horrible price, depending on what shipping is for you


----------



## 69BBNova

I used my 45 to do a set of second test cuts today, I had to color the end of the board a bit…

This was one of the last complete 45s DonW had, I received it yesterday…

For the most part I cleaned up the parts that were rusty with files (mostly rods and depth stops), I haven't sharpened anything yet…

Some of the depth stops I had to fit because there was a bit of interference, I really had to reshape the micro-adjust depth stop on the main body because the sash blade was right against it and jamming…

It really didn't take long to get it in shape I dought it took an hour. I went slow and looked it over before I did something stupid and now I'm really enjoying playing with it…

Thanks DonW for holding it.


----------



## 69BBNova

Its now almost 6am and I just made this thing with my sash cutter, its a little difficult to make out…

I was determined to make one today before I slept, this was my second attempt.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Making sash is impressive, Nova. Seriously. Good on ya, I'm inspired.


----------



## donwilwol

Well, I'm certainly glad that #45 got in the right hands. Very impressive. Keep it coming.


----------



## 69BBNova

Thanks guys it took a lot of thinking while I was tuning it up on how I would go about using and adjusting it…

I'm also starting to get scared that I might buy a No.55…

I keep on thinking about making a window but the only way it would be usefull is if I jumped out of it…LOL

I'm on the first floor.


----------



## 69BBNova

Today… tongue and groove with a bead…

The joint looks worse than it is, its actually fairly tight, I just have to get a decent set up so I can hold a better line, in time I'll figure out how to clamp everything better…

After I dug up the wood didn't take long at all.


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice Nova!


----------



## 69BBNova

Thanks Mosquito,

I'm thinking about what to do later, I just want to lie down for a while…

I've only had about 7-8 hrs sleep total the past two nights looking the 45 over..


----------



## DanKrager

Nova, you might want to research a little more which side gets the bead. Normally the bead is cut on the tongue side, I believe, so more material remains intact for the T&G, making it a teensy bit stronger for the handling. Once together, machs nicht.

It really looks good, though and I agree that 45's are fun and surprisingly quick.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Novan DanK is right. There is a special guide that rides on the tongue to keep the beaader steady as you cut. It has a cut out on it.


----------



## 69BBNova

Thanks for the info, didn't consider that…

I had offset the tounge and grove to have more strength and I admit I didn't like it…

Its difficult to read up on everything considering how much time I read as it is, in time I would have come across it…

20 years or so ago I realized I would never live long enough to learn all the things I'm interest it…

I'll do another, this time I'll be happy with it…

Thanks again.


----------



## 69BBNova

I did a little cleaning (actually a lot) on the 45 I got DonW two or so weeks ago. The before pic looks better than it really was, and the after (for now) doesn't look as good as it is, but its nearby…

I'm taking a short break until i get back to the small parts and cutters, but I had to get an idea how good I could get it because I had started looking for some pristine examples and I'm just not ready to drop the money on one (hopefully never).

Just found the patent dates…
March 11th '84
Jan 22nd '95


----------



## Mosquito

That looks mighty fine to me!

Have you seen the one I use? It's definitely not pristine lol


----------



## donwilwol

mine are not pristine either. I have two users, each have their own issues. I've got one with the micro adjuster that's stripped. I need to fix that one of these days.

Yours is looking good Bill!


----------



## Airframer

Some #45 action going on tonight..










I learned a couple things about this plane tonight..

1. It can be used left handed if you have to though depth stop isn't as effective..

2. Cannot stress the importance of the use of wax on this plane lol..

Had fun and got the job done much faster than I thought it would go..


----------



## theoldfart

Groovy man!


----------



## Mosquito

Yes, wax is good lol Nice work


----------



## canadianchips

WOW.
I wished I had found this thread earlier.
I have some of these 45's
To-date I am missing type 1
I like looking at earlier models, a lot more ornamental than newer ones.
My Type 20 does have all it's nickel plating and is considered Pristine (I did pay to much)
Since my move last year I haven't seen my #45's for awhile. Need to dig them out of the storage box and see how much rust "patina" is on them.


----------



## Tim457

Yeah definitely dig those babies out and keep em clean. Or use them to make a wooden box to keep them in. 

I just watched Roy's episode on combination planes, and man that 55 is a crazy beast with a moving skate and everything. I picked up a wooden plow and a set of tongue and groove planes so unless I find an Airframer style steal on a 45 or 55, finding these wood ones cheap first leans me toward going the wooden route. Roy clearly thinks only the wooden ones have soul. I disagree since they're all hand tools with steel cutting edges, but he has a good point if you're interested in making period accurate work or something.


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, for your collection
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINT-NEVER-USED-RECORD-8-HOLLOW-ROUND-ATTACHMENT-FOR-PLANE-T-1007-/310790001863?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item485c8714c7

Pretty sure you don't have a set of theses.


----------



## theoldfart

Someone looking for cutters for a 45?
here you go


----------



## DanKrager

TOF, you are an enabler. It's not the same as "you suck" but close! Now I've got the wants for those shoes. We'll see how it goes. Have started working on a set of socket mortise chisels, so money may go there instead. Oh dear. What to do?
DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Question: Are Record hollows and rounds usable on a Stanley #45?
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

YES
MOS is using them on his 45


----------



## Mosquito

Dan, Yes they do, and Yes I am using record hollow and round bases for mine.

And TOF, that seller used to have 2 sets of #8 H&R's 2 weeks ago ;-)


----------



## DanKrager

^ Not after tomorrow night…
DanK


----------



## TerryDowning

Question for the Stanley 45 Experts.

My slitter/aux slitter/depth stop does not stay adjusted. The screw does not tighten down all the way.

Am I missing something? The thumb screw is bottomed out and the depth stop moves up and down easily.










I have seen photos where the slitter is turned upside down between the skate and depth stop and I'm pretty sure that would do the trick. Is this the right screw?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yes, my slitter is upside down and in the location you pictured. I'll have to check if the thumbscrew is the same.


----------



## JustJoe

Is it the right thumbscrew? None of my 45/55 have a thumbscrew with ridges on the side, they're smooth and plated. And the washer isn't round, it's taller than its width with two parallel sides.


----------



## 69BBNova

I actually keep my slitter behind the depth stop at all times…

I'm not sure if its correct but I do it.


----------



## Mosquito

Terry, I too have my slitter upside down behind the depth stop.  The screw bottoms out, and is meant to hold both, so that's why just the depth stop alone doesn't hold.


----------



## TerryDowning

Thanks, I'll make the correction tonight.

Here's everything I received.


----------



## Mosquito

Looks like a really sweet grab!


----------



## theoldfart

Patrick has another set of all four H&R's, $395.00


----------



## Mosquito

yeah… I just wussed out on a set on eBay… watched myself get outbid in the last 10 seconds, and didn't up my bid…. too tempting


----------



## kiyoshigawa

Nova and Mos, thanks for the tip about the slitter and depth stop both fitting at the same time. I didn't realize that, and the slitter was too short to fit in the blade box and be able to get it out easily. Wasn't sure where I should be putting it. I'll swap mine in tonight, and continue on my merry way.


----------



## TerryDowning

There all fixed!!

















Guess I need to clean that up still.


----------



## Mosquito

lol looks cleaner than mine


----------



## DanKrager

I did that (arrange the slitter upside down) and promptly cut my hand. ??? So I turned mine over and it just barely cleared the sole. 
DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's when it's 'too sharp,' Dan. 
.
.
.
I'm thinking 'barely' is enough, though.


----------



## donwilwol

My slitter stays in the cutter box. I can see all kinds of blood happening any other way.


----------



## TerryDowning

Now everybody chimes in!!


----------



## theoldfart

I'm with DonW, too dangerous to be out in the open, back in the box!


----------



## TerryDowning

So for those that opt to keep the slitter in the box, how does one secure the auxiliary depth stop?

FWIW, I have not drawn blood yet having the slitter inverted in place.


----------



## Mosquito

If you're not using the slitter, you might as well leave the auxiliary depth stop off the plane as well. It was only intended to be used with the slitter, which is why the screw is too long to be used with out the slitting cutter.


----------



## donwilwol

If any is looking for a set of 45 cutters let me know. I picked up a set.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'd like to see the slitter cutter in action…


----------



## Mosquito

Smitty, me too… lol I may have a potential use for it, that I might give it another go with, but the shop is on the move between now and March, so doubt I'll have any time for it before then. Bench already made the move


----------



## DonBroussard

I suppose you could use the slitter and the fence as a marking gauge if you didn't already have a marking gauge . . .


----------



## superdav721

Mos first I want to thank you for this thread. It has been most useful.
I recently went down this path with a new purchase.
If you have time
http://chiselandforge.com/woodworking/montgumery-ward-45/


----------



## CL810

Dave - interesting post & video. I have the exact same 45. I had bought a stanley 45 off eBay but was unhappy with it's appearance. I then came across a MG 45 and purchased it for much less and in better shape. Like you, I have no doubt Stanley made this plane. It is identical to the stanley 45 in every respect.


----------



## superdav721

Thank you. I think you get so much more for your dollar with this situation. Same plane just doesn't have Stanley stamped on it.


----------



## theoldfart

Dave, I have a Record 405 multi plane with a number of accessories. I paid a little more than you did but then I goat all of the extra cutters and a #10 H&R. It works every bit as well as a Stanley 45. Like you and most others on this thread I am a user first, collector(preserver) second. Great video and looking forward to hearing about your experiences with your 45.


----------



## superdav721

Kevin thanks. I could not agree with you any more. Well said!


----------



## Mosquito

There's a couple different brands that are almost identical to the #45 by Stanley. All of them should work just as well.

It's also why I've been buying Record brand hollow and round bases… much cheaper.

for $150, I would be all over that too. Won't lie though, there's a little OCD collector in me, that would be annoyed if I didn't have a Stanley lol I also paid $108 for my #45, and all of its irons (with all accessories except the box and screw driver). It wasn't in as good of shape, though.

Still want to find a Keen Kutter combination plane, but that may not be any cheaper than a Stanley (probably more)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dave, that's a nice multiplane you have there! The sleuthing work was good, too. Congrats!!


----------



## theoldfart

Moss, can you put up a couple of pics of your 45 box?


----------



## Mosquito

Sure thing. I also did a couple videos of it too, if you wanted to see the construction process.


----------



## Mosquito

This has 2 #45's in it at the moment (from when I moved), as well as 2 boxes of cutters, Hollow and round bases 6, 8, and 10, and the nosing base.









Just 1 #45, with bases and blades


















I initially designed it before I had any hollow and round bases, to fit a #45 standing up, with long rods. I intended to put two rails on the bottom, so the fence could sit between then and hold the plane upright.









The internal dimensions are 11.25" x 8.5", and 7" tall.


----------



## lightcs1776

Very nice, Mos. I don't know much about planes, just diving into them, but that looks like a great tool.


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, thanks. Really liked the videos and my compliments on the musical accompaniment! I think I may make some separate cutter boxes and a larger box to fit them in in addition to the other bases.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Chris. The #45 was the 5th or 6th plane I bought, and although it may not be my most frequently used plane, it's certainly one of my favorites.

-

That's not a bad idea, Kevin. My original plan was to do built in storage for the irons. Two built in boxes just like they came in, but just in one edge. I'd also probably would have made it slightly larger, had I known I'd be getting the bases that soon after finishing the box… Who knows, I may make another one, it was a quick easy, and fun project.


----------



## theoldfart

Chris, have you picked up any of the other additional cutters for the 45. If I make the cutter boxes i will probably make a big enough batch to hold all of the 45 and 55 cutters. Don't have the 55 now but if one comes up at a bargain price I'd like to add it to the collection, er user tools in my chest along with the 46.


----------



## Mosquito

I do not have any of the optional cutters for the #45 yet. I just have a full set of #55 irons, and then the hollow and round bases that I've got


----------



## superdav721

Thanks guys. 
Mos those are some very good videos. And you have a lot of accessories.
Smitty you make me smile.


----------



## theoldfart

Dave, your video was not so shabby either. Excellent sleuthing on the Montgomery/Stanley connection.


----------



## superdav721

Thanks Kevin. I worked on that sleuthing for about a week. Even with the inter webs it is hard to get specific information.
Thank you again.


----------



## CL810

If anyone has a spare nicker screw I could use it. A few months ago one jumped out of my hand. I've been hoping that I'd find it when cleaning up but have not. I just realized I'm not following the natural order and in order to find mine I first must get another one. When I find mine I'll return the one I get.


----------



## johnstoneb

I need a wider piece for a tool cabinet I am building. I decided to try the match cutter on my 45.










It went pretty well once I got it set up. I did learn use lumber with really straight grain. I got a real work out and some chipping in places. I'll cut the other half tomorrow.


















It is a fun plane to work with. I am sure glad I downloaded a copy of the manual for it.


----------



## theoldfart

Bruce, check your cutter. All the fuzz is in one place so i'm betting you've got a rough spot.


----------



## johnstoneb

TOF I think you're right . I looked closely and the cutter and that side might have a little flat spot on it. Finished the dado this morning and glued it up looks pretty good for first time. Getting quicker with the setup every time I use it.


----------



## Buckethead

Wanted to say thanks for this awesome thread, Mosquito. Invaluable information for those of us considering a combination plane purchase.


----------



## upchuck

This is the place to get #45 questions answered?
I picked up a #45 this past weekend. I believe that it is a type 7-8 from the available on-line type studies (Hans B.'s was not available). It was in what I suspect is an original wooden box with a mess of other loose stuff. The label was missing from the box. And the box had no lid. I also believe that it is complete but I have some questions:
1) What size should an original box be?
2) How thick should the sliding top be?
3) Box made of chestnut?
4) Can someone show me a photo of the screwdriver that came with this plane?
5) Did the type 7-8 come with the cam stop? Which one?
Thanks
chuck


----------



## theoldfart

Anyone looking for some 45 or 55 cutters PM me. Found some stashed on the 'Bay


----------



## lightcs1776

Can anyone confirm what type of #45 this is? I am thinking perhaps a #12, but I am not confident in my ability to detemine the type. I think I am missing the cam, but I am still in shock that I was able to get it, and at a good price at that. It doesn't have the floral cast, uses rosewood, and has "trade 45 mark" on the fence, with a 'B' on it's side about those words.

Pictures to be added momentarily


----------



## WayneC

Bump.


----------



## Mosquito

Oh jeez, forgot about that one. Was at the cabin when I saw the e-mail.

I would say Type 9-11: (1908-1914). The Type 12's is when they added the micro-adjustment screw on the fence, which this one doesn't have. It looks like it'll clean up great, and if it came with irons and the box for a good price, all the better!

Obviously the fence is on the wrong side, and also the main depth stop (the one with the thumb screw) is in backwards.


----------



## CL810

I'll see your bump and raise 1 pic.


----------



## Mosquito

oooh fancy. Are you adding a bead to a bull nose?


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, use the H&R's to make the edge?


----------



## CL810

Yea. Moulding for a display rack. Did the beading first then the round over on the tailed router. I'm joining these with miter joints so I wanted a consistent round over.


----------



## lightcs1776

Thanks, Mosquito. It was $50 for the plane and has all the irons. I was wondering about the fence, but frankly am a real newbee when it comes to hand planes. That is how I bought it. I'll clean it up in the next few weeks and see if I can also find a cam for it.


----------



## donwilwol

$50 with the cutters and box is a steal! Nice acquisition.


----------



## Mosquito

$50 is definitely, as Don said, a steal.

Quite frankly, unless you're looking to have a complete #45 down to every last piece, I wouldn't bother with the cam rest yet. I haven't had a use for mine yet in 2 years.

I really need to kick myself back into gear on making my #45 use videos…


----------



## CL810

OF we posted at same time and I didn't see yours. No H & R's here.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, another question. It looks like the fence has bottomed out on the bench, any problem with the cutter angling in the groove?


----------



## CL810

Lol, ya this was a staged photo. The wood was 7/8 thick to start and I decided to bead it before taking it down to 1/2". That way if I messed up I could salvage the piece and start over. Lol. I wondered if anyone would catch that.


----------



## lightcs1776

Good info on the cam. I'm looking to use the plane primarily for groves, dados, and beading. I sure appreciate the information about it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

A staged photo! *Aghast!*


----------



## theoldfart

Ahm apalled, snicker, chortle, he he


----------



## theoldfart

How i learned the obvious, nicker snicker! Sharpening makes a bit of difference
Before









After









I am very good at missing the obvious apparently. ;-)


----------



## palaswood

Lets get this thread going again. I just bought a 45 lol


----------



## lightcs1776

Congrats, Joseph. I have yet to use my #45, but I am chomping at the bit to do so. I just have to get life's necessary projects done, which is part of home ownership. It is certainly a beautiful tool.


----------



## palaswood

cool chris. Did you buy yours complete with all the cutters? Mine is complete with fence but no cutters, so I got a 1/4" match, 1/4" plow and 1/2" plow cutters from ebay.

I'm excited to use it! I really don't like using power tools to be honest. I have a table saw with complete dado stack and a router and a 6" jointer, but I rarely use any of them. Usually its handsaws and hand planes whenever possible. This plane really opens A TON of doors with regards to traditional rail/style/panel construction, which is what kept me woodturning for the first year of my woodworking, since I was intimidated by all the measuring I guess!


----------



## lightcs1776

I have all the cutters, just not the time. I like a blend of power and hand tools. I just don't have the time to get involved in a project right now. Once I do, I'll be trying out the #45 for making grooves and rabbets for shop storage.


----------



## WhoMe

You guys were talking about a Montgomery Wards version. Here is one on ebay. It is already at $90 but looks to be in excellent shape with all the goodies.


----------



## WhoMe

OH BTW, what is the general bevel angle in which you sharpen your cutters. Is it 25 or 30 degrees. I'm thinking 30 but I will leave it to those who have more experience with this plane. 
Thanks


----------



## upchuck

WhoMe-
ALF (the Cornish Workshop linked at the top of this forum and well worth the read) recommends 35 degrees and explains why.
chuck


----------



## theoldfart

The literature from my 405 also recommends 35 degrees.


----------



## DanKrager

I use 30 degrees on most wood tool cutting edges. It's a good compromise between sharp and durable. I've tried as shallow as 20° on a 45° bedded bevel down blade, and as steep as 40° and I can't tell much difference. The 40° did seem to drag on soft woods, though. 
BTW WHOME, pm if you have questions about the Tormek T7. I have one and love it. Use it to sharpen just about everything. I've especially appreciated the drill sharpening attachment that does four facet sharpening. That makes even cheap bits perform to the max. When is your presentation?
DanK


----------



## palaswood

I was thinking of giving the 45 an evaporust bath. Anything I should know beforehand?


----------



## shampeon

Does it need it? That looks to be in pretty good shape. If there are parts that are particularly rusty, I'd take them off and do them, but the body I'd avoid. The rosewood handle shouldn't be soaked if you can help it.

If there are some rust spots, just rub some 3-in-1 oil on them.


----------



## Mosquito

I would also avoid it if you can, especially the rosewood. Maybe some oil and a nylon bristle brush? Or perhaps white vinegar and some baking soda… it's nickel plated, so it shouldn't be that rusty


----------



## LeTurbo

Today I used a slot router that I haven't touched for …. oooh, 18 years. As I'm doing the cut I think, "Something doesn't look right here", only to find the guide bearing had dropped off during the operation. How to fix the mess? Out came the #45, and literally two sweeps of the thing had that joint perfect. Gotta love those old guys.


----------



## JayT

Another vote for leaving it alone or just some spot touch up.

LeTurbo, sometimes it's amazing to think how far technology and machines have come and yet we are still better off with 100+ year old designs in some cases.


----------



## fuigb

Hey all. A couple of weeks ago I picked up a combo plane labled as Craftsman. Came with a box of single -notch irons. Missing the fence and three of four rods. 12 bucks, so I'm dancing a jig thinking of the fun I will have.

Here's where it gets interesting: I figure "craftsman" = Sargent so I go online and buy a Sargent fence. Damn thing does not fit! Closer inspection sugests that my Craftsman is really a rebadged 45? Adjusting screw is a dead ringer for a 45 , not the Sargent 1080. What say you?

P.S. anyone need my unneeded fence for a 1080? I just want what I paid. But if youneed it and are financially strapped I'll give it to you for the price of postage. 15 bucks was my all-in cost through eBay, but I figure that I can ship for three or four dollars.


----------



## JayT

fuigb, post some pics. Every Craftsman combo plane I've seen has been made by Sargent, admittedly, that isn't a large number. It would be cool to see one that was possibly Stanley-made.


----------



## fuigb

Going to try to do that. I've been arguing with my buddy, insisting that I got a Sargent. Hope I'm wrong just 'cuz it would make this intended-user more interesting to me.


----------



## Mosquito

Craftsman looks pretty Stanley to me:
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/38500


----------



## palaswood

yeah something kept me from dunking the 45 and it doesnt really need it. I submerged a crusty handyman though and it actually came out looking pretty good considering… considering that its a handyman lol. I use it as my paint scraper for reclaimed wood.

Whats a good way to start your cut with a 45 for a drawer bottom dado? is the cutter supposed to be set shallow? im clueless here so help a brutha out


----------



## Mosquito

http://lumberjocks.com/Mosquito/blog/35595
;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice video, to this day it's useful.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Smitty. I have one shot for tongue and groove as well that I noticed I hadn't added to this forum yet… just did it now.

I really do plan to do at least another video or two once my current computer project is done. Who knows, maybe I'll use it on the next computer project… the slitter might come in handy if I can get it figured out right lol


----------



## JayT

> Craftsman looks pretty Stanley to me:
> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/38500
> 
> - Mosquito


Cool. Either hadn't seen that post, or totally forgot about it. I knew some Craftsman planes were built by Stanley, but wasn't aware of the combo planes.


----------



## theoldfart

I don't remember who, but someone on LJ's did a video on the Craftsman/stanley 45. As soon as i can find it i'll post a link.

edit maybe Super Dave?


----------



## theoldfart

Found the post, but it's a Montgomery Ward

http://chiselandforge.com/woodworking/montgumery-ward-45/


----------



## Mosquito

That's the one I figured you were thinking of Kevin, Dave's video.

I've also got an early Keen Kutter K64 that's also a Stanley rebadge. (Early as in knob on main casting still)


----------



## theoldfart

My bucket list right now consists of a 46, 55, and 444. Don't think I'll ever find them in my price range but it's not like i'm holding up projects waiting on tools either. Someday …...


----------



## Tim457

Joseph, Naval Jelly can work well for things that you can't soak in evaporust. That or the evaporust bottle says to cover large items in soaked paper towels. Either way be careful because the borders of where the evaporust or Naval jelly are can etch a line or leave a mark.


----------



## Mosquito

I sold my 3rd #46 at the beginning of the year when I was selling stuff before moving. Down to two now. One of each style (one with a stand alone fence, and one with the fence on the sliding section), which is probably where I'll stay… for now lol.

Have the #55, but the #444 is on the same bucket list as well lol


----------



## donwilwol

I'd like to find a 444 as well. Someday maybe.


----------



## DanKrager

Looks like I'm facing a lot of competition for the 444… I have a sneaking suspicion there's gonna be a grand tool gloat someday.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

^ count on it!


----------



## dbray45

Finally bought a 55. Won it last night. From the pictures, it looks complete and in fairly good shape, we will see.

It has 4 boxes of cutters, the ones I was looking for.


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice David. It looks really clean to me


----------



## Tim457

Full set of cutters, long and short rods, fence has the rosewood, even has the box and manual. Nice catch. Hopefully not missing anything else.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Did I hear someone talking about the #444 in here?


----------



## theoldfart

Aw, goaway. You got yers. No gloating allowed.

A few of us MAY HAVE indicated a viceral need for the aforementioned device. Yours is the only one we've seen so jealousy may rear it's ugly head.

Maybe a few more pics


----------



## Mosquito

^ Pretty sure he's got 2…


----------



## theoldfart

Aw krapp! Wait, two of 'em? Smitty ol budy, ol Pal, if you were to be downsizing …........
Tool chest must be over full by now….......


----------



## JayT

I may have the opportunity to play with a #444 here in the near future. There's a collector in town that is also a member of our woodworker's guild that wants to do a meeting program about specialty planes. The kicker is that he doesn't know how to use any of them, he is strictly a collector, so asked if I would help out and demonstrate while he is talking. I warned him that I would probably need to play with the #444 for a month or two in order to figure out how all of it works.

Crossing fingers that this comes to fruition. If so, Smitty, you will certainly be called upon to help. I'm sure I'll have questions even after re-reading your blog posts.


----------



## theoldfart

Jay, many pics and maybe videos? Lucky fella


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

We have vids, we have pics.

Jay, I need to come to that meeting.

Mos is correct. One is slightly less than complete, it needs the two spur blocks to support the larger two cutters, but is functional as is. I'd sell for a reasonable price, actually, so PM if you're interested.

EDIT: St James Bay sells the blocks for cheap, but the ship time will likely be pretty lengthy. Leach offered a pair of blocks a couple of months ago, but he wanted quite a bit for them. Maybe still has them, don't know.


----------



## donwilwol

there's one here, http://hyperkitten.com/tools/ForSale/Tools_FS.php Under a grand!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks like a Type 1 (there are two types that I know of).


----------



## Tim457

The epic 444 video in case anyone missed it.


----------



## dbray45

Thanks Mos and Kevin, paid under $300 on the bay. My better half has already told me that when it gets here, I am make sure all is good and then she gets it to wrap for a birthday present in the future - unless I really need it to make something for her.

Its all good.


----------



## dbray45

The 444 is sweet. Some day -


----------



## superdav721

MMMMMMMm 444 oh my!


----------



## theoldfart

^ that's for sure!


----------



## palaswood

So any trick to sharpening #45 cutters?


----------



## JayT

> So any trick to sharpening #45 cutters?
> 
> - palaswood


The straight ones can be sharpened like any other plane iron or chisel. I try to get about a 30 degree cutting edge and it works well.


----------



## Mosquito

yes, straight irons just like regular plane irons or chisels, but the beading irons are a little trickier. But they don't have to be, I just use sandpaper on an appropriately sized dowel to clean up and sharpen the beading cutters. Just make sure you don't remove too much material this way, just keep it clean and flatten the back. If you remove material from the sides, you'll eventually make the bead size bigger (which, in operation really doesn't matter, but you'll eventually end up with just the curve and no reveals)


----------



## superdav721

sharpening


----------



## lightcs1776

Great video, Dave. I happen to have that stopping kit here (got it for one of my kids to sharpen his chisels). Now if I can just get some time to get my #45 ready to use.


----------



## palaswood

thanks for the replies, i appreciate it. Got some boxes to put together this week, so i need sharp cutters.


----------



## CL810

Thanks Dave for taking the time to make that video and post it. Very encouraging to me.


----------



## dbray45

Good video Dave.


----------



## dbray45

An update on my 55. The tool is pretty complete, missing the spanner wrench. As it turns out, the previous owner only used a couple of the blades, the rest had the factory sharpening (burrs and all). I spent a couple of days cleaning up the edges - flattening the backs and touching the fronts with a few different DMT plates. This plane is going to be nice as time goes on.


----------



## superdav721

Thanks folks!


----------



## Mosquito

Dang it, I forgot to post this here when I did it…


----------



## grfrazee

Cool video, Chris. Also, just watched your playlist about making the panel saw and found that to be interesting (and informative!) as well.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks gfrazee. It was fun to make


----------



## shirty

Thanks for posting this; it's very informative.


----------



## Mosquito

No problem shirty! I find it quite fun putting this stuff together. I have a few projects I have to get done, then I hope to get back to shooting some more videos to continue my series


----------



## Disneytodd

All I want is one 55 plane with blades or not but I see the price on ebay
And think it's going to take me some time to save up and get a tool 
I would love to be able to use that's it one plane to use and get my shop one step closer to
Being all hand tools if anyone has a lead on one of these rare overpriced wonders I would love to make 
It have purpose once again and not sit on a shelf.


----------



## dbray45

With you on that Todd - took me 10 years to get my 55. Just got it 3 months ago.


----------



## oltexasboy1

After reading all the reviews available , I decided against a #55 and got the #45 instead. I was lucky on ebay and I got a complete 45 set with 1 extra box of blades with a #71 router plane as a bonus for a really good price . When my new Roubo style bench is done , next week ,I plan to make a concerted effort to learn to use this new/old plane correctly. Wish me luck.
BTW thanks for starting this thread. They say that when the student is ready, the teacher will appear.


----------



## oltexasboy1

One note I would like to add, I have been trying to contact the guy at St. James tool co. without any success.
I did contact Ron Hock and he said he doesn't make any replacement blades for #45 or #55 planes.


----------



## upchuck

oltexasboy1-

Bob Howard of St. James Bay Tool Co is hard to get in touch with via email. You might want to give him a call.
I have a phone number but I haven't tried it in years. Try (480) 835-2589 but not on weekends or before 10:00am on weekdays. Good Luck.

chuck


----------



## oltexasboy1

Yeah I tried the ph also but the voice mail was full. something might have happened and he is no longer doing this work. One other out of business alert , The Big Wood Vise guy is also no longer in business.


----------



## theoldfart

O'Texas, try Lake Erie Toolworks for wooden vise screws and New Hampshire plane parts on EBay for 45/55 cutters and parts.


----------



## jakeprater

New Hampshire plane parts is a great source, did some business with him a while back, cutters for my # 55, at a great price.


----------



## jakeprater

Also wanted to show a little odd the work I've done with my # 55. The first is from a dresser I made a while back. The trim was made with a reverse ogee, and the center groove on the drawers was made with a quarter round that I shortened to match the rest of the profile. The next set shows cabinet corner trim using a beeding cutter for several beeds, not perfect, but passable. The last is an extra piece of molding that I made by mistake, using the wrong ogee profile, but it shows how long the pieces were that I was using. The ends are a little chewed, but I was able to get pretty consistent results for almost the whole length.


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice Jake! That looks awesome


----------



## dbray45

Well done!


----------



## CL810

Made a case for my number 10 H & R cutters today. Long range plan: fill the spots for #'s 6, 8, & 12.

They look a little lonely, don't they?


----------



## jakeprater

Nice case, are those magnets on the cover? My #55 came with 3 of the 4 original boxes of blades, with the labels still attached, but I would sure like to get that 4th box! 
Great work!


----------



## CL810

The lid has nail heads. The box has small rare earth magnets. Had to put 2 in each side to have enough strength.


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice! I should make me a set of cutter boxes for my #45 irons and my #55 irons… both have boxes already, but both also have labels that I'd prefer not to damage if I could…


----------



## CL810

I have a Wards Master 45 for sale. It is identical to a Stanley. A great user. $70.00 including shipping to lower 48 states. PM me if you are interested. Happy to send more pics. Thought I'd list it here before listing it the swap forum.


----------



## Mosquito

CL810, has that Wards Master sold? It's still in impressively good shape.

Also, has anyone tried any of the Lee Valley small plow plane irons in a #45? I've heard that they've said they'll work in a #45, but are just a little shorter. Was curious.


----------



## DanKrager

CL810, I like your box, and your plan. Everyone needs to dream…

I dream the same dream, but money's an issue. But hey, it's only money….
DanK


----------



## CL810

Yes it is sold Mos.

Thanks Dan. I did pick up the #8's.


----------



## rhybeka

I'll be disassembling mine today for a thorough inspection and cleaning. Need to figure out what it's missing if anything.


----------



## rhybeka

I wasn't sure If I should post pics here or HPOYD so here's the link to the post

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/26023#reply-1100513

It's at least cleaner, but has a few things that need addressed a bit further


----------



## donwilwol

anybody?
I'm curious! 
http://www.handplaneforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=412


----------



## DocBailey

*Don*

Are you asking about the plane pictured in your link? - if so, I believe it's an Ohio Tools 099

(ignore photo at top of page)










from Warman's Field Guide


----------



## donwilwol

Thanks Doc. I wonder why they didn't call it a 045?


----------



## rhybeka

I am having a tough time with the spur screws on my #45. Could someone give me an idea of the size screwdriver that should go in that slot? I've tried every size screwdriver I have in my house and they are either too big or too little.


----------



## DanKrager

Becka, the easiest way is to make one. If you have or know a gun smith in the area he can help you out by direct observation. 
Like most flat head screws, their heads are flat and the underside is tapered. A square tip screwdriver is not the best fit for such stubborn screws. With a square tip that is full width, the tip corners will hit the tapered socket the screw is stuck in and may hinder a good, deep, full groove connection. If the tip is only as wide as the screw body, it won't hit the tapered socket, but will not engage the full width of the slot. Both scenarios can easily damage the screw head when torque is applied because the engagement is not full. Gently file or grind the corners off a high quality blade that otherwise tightly fits the slot so the corners match the slope of the socket. Make sure the slot is clean. This should permit as full an engagement as possible. 
After the screw has soaked in Blaster or the magic ATFA mixture for several days, then engage the driver fully and squarely and tap on the handle firmly against a solid surface with a hammer. The intent is to shock the screw and its surroundings and cause it to move microscopically helping to break the rust bond. Then ever so carefully apply torque momentarily and with great pressure holding the driver firmly into the slot. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat until you give up and before you damage the slot with impatience. Set it back to soak, and repeat days later. Keep this up persistently and PATIENTLY, the screw will come out intact.

In the early days, I gave up too soon and had to drill them out. No more. No rusted screw has beaten me in the last many years. Keep up the pressure, but patiently.
DanK


----------



## donwilwol

Dan just gave great advice. I'll add one more bit. If you can get help, have someone tap the screw driver (this is were the perfect handle screw drivers excellent) tap the screw driver as you turn. Downward pressure, turn pressure, and tap tap tap.

If that still don't work, direct some heat in it and repeat.


----------



## rhybeka

Thanks guys  I'll start with soaking it and I think I have a screwdriver that's close that I may be able to file… guess I should think more and more about investing in a grinder!


----------



## oltexasboy1

> Thanks guys  I ll start with soaking it and I think I have a screwdriver that s close that I may be able to file… guess I should think more and more about investing in a grinder!
> 
> - rhybeka


A file works ,done that a lot. and if you are not in a hurry , you can use "campho-phenique liquid, available at Walmart. I always kept some in my toolbox when I was working . Let it soak over night and as instructed, put the screwdriver in the slot and tap the handle. One slight alteration, put a little clockwise turn on it first before you try to take it out. and while you are removing it ,go back and fore (tight -loose) as you back it out ,this helps to clear the threads of rust as you turn it. Good luck.


----------



## rhybeka

thanks OT! been getting the snowblower to work and some time in on my mini workbench build so I'm hoping to get back to this this evening


----------



## Mosquito

Updated the video in my first blog for plowing grooves. Should be able to get to the T&G one soon




View on YouTube


----------



## theoldfart

Video looks good Mos. Should help a lot of folks avoid nooby errors and reduce their learning curve. Nicely done.


----------



## knockknock

> ... Let it soak over night and as instructed, put the screwdriver in the slot and tap the handle. One slight alteration, put a little clockwise turn on it first before you try to take it out. and while you are removing it ,go back and fore (tight -loose) as you back it out ,this helps to clear the threads of rust as you turn it.
> - oltexasboy1


From working on my cars, what oltexasboy1 recommends does frequently work.


----------



## CL810

Great job with video. Thanks for taking the time to make these videos.


----------



## Tim457

Great video Mos, very detailed showing the setup and adjustments. I just had to laugh at this though:

"The type, manufacturer, doesn't matter, I'm just using a 45 because that's what I have *most* of."

Lol, hoarder.


----------



## Mosquito

Well it's not a false statement… Though in truth the only other one I have is a Keen Kutter lol I have 5 Stanley's and 1 Keen Kutter (made by Stanley)


----------



## 33706

Yeah, I've got an armload of 45s too…I just don't use them enough. 
Great video, Mos… much better than those other ones on YouTube!


----------



## Tim457

Alright, I've tried getting a handle on the values of these, but they are all over the map depending on how many cutters, etc. A 45 and 55 have come up on CL and I was wondering if you guys could help out with a good offer.

The 45 is listed as $200 OBO with 2 boxes of cutters and looks to be in quite good shape, though I don't know how a perfect one of that vintage should look. Shiny? The 55 is listed as $400 OBO with 4 boxes of cutters and is in similarly good shape. I'll put pictures below, but assuming I can verify they are complete, those prices seem high, but the fact the cutters are included makes it better. The OBO sounds promising too. Hand tools move slowly near me usually. I think I've heard $150 for a complete 45 with cutters is an average deal and $300 for a 55 with cutters is similar. Am I in the ballpark? Anything stand out about these? I see they both have the micro adjust, but don't know what type that makes them. I think I'm more inclined towards a 55, but it depends on how complete either is.


----------



## DanKrager

Those planes are apparently in outstanding good shape and from what I can see, quite complete. The 45 might be short some rods. Depth stops all there? While the prices are a little rich, make a fair offer in the range you are thinking. Maybe less if you agree to take both.
I think I would have bitten on it. Partly depends on how badly you "need" it, too.
DanK


----------



## Tim457

Thanks Dan. I contacted the seller right away to make a time to go look at them so we'll see. I'm not enough of a collector to go for both, even if I would like them, I'm more going for one to use. I figured based on the completeness that I can see in the picture the seller may have the other rods for the 45 as well, but I plan on asking. I'll have to print out and bring along a parts list for both of them with me.


----------



## DanKrager

Get both and offer the one you don't want here on LJ. There are several lined up and looking…but not me.
DanK


----------



## Tim457

Ok, so the 55 followed me home for what I was hoping for. He actually had a 46 that had what looked like a complete box of cutters and was actually willing to sell me the 55, 45, and 46 for $600, but I pretty much tapped out my tool fund lately. I also didn't know he had the 46 so I hadn't looked up what parts that thing is supposed to have. It did look pretty complete and in very good shape. The 45 was in the worst shape and was a newer type, something after the sweethearts. I may have to steal some money from a baby to go back and get the 45 and 46.

Here's the 55:









The 4 boxes of cutters have every single one of the standard cutters, and I haven't checked through the whole parts list, but so far I can't find a single missing part on the thing. Oh and the plane and the cutter box stickers had this mark on them:









It does have some rust to clean up and the cutters will take some work, but now it's off to the races to figure out how to use this beast.


----------



## Mosquito

Looks pretty good to me, and even has the cam rest. Sweet score Tim


----------



## 33706

Tim,
Wow, a #55, you did real good! They're so hard to come by, you did very well. Congrats!


----------



## Tim457

Thanks guys, I'm pretty excited about the molding capabilities. Maybe someday I'll find a decent set of wooden molders but until then I think this will do really well for me. The standard cutters include hollows, rounds, reverse ogees, grecian and roman ogees, beading, fluting, and reeding among others. I found a blog with pretty detailed posts about actually using it to make molding too, rather than most everyone else that just says it's a pain or doesn't give much detail.
http://bringbackthehandtools.blogspot.com


----------



## Mosquito

Once I get videos done for the #45, I was hoping to move on to the #55 after that, but judging by how… not-quickly I've been getting the #45 videos out, who knows how fast that'd happen


----------



## jakeprater

That's a great looking 55! Mine was pretty abused before i got it, and it shows a really hard life. There's barely any nickel plating left on it! It still works well.

For those that say the 55 is a pain (or a boat anchor), i would reply that my experience is that the plane is just finicky. It all had to be aligned and set up properly to get it to cut well. It took me a lot of fiddling and fettling to get it to cut a decent line, but once it was set, it cut easily and pretty consistently. most of the problems are user error, at least problems I've had with it. Getting the blades sharp was a patience building exercise, but i one sharpen them ai need them, not all at once-i don't have that much patience!


----------



## Tim457

Jake, I'd love to hear any tips you have on fettling and using it. Particularly the fettling. I haven't seen anything on that.

Mos, the videos you are doing are great, so no pressure. Have fun with them and do them when you get a chance.


----------



## Mosquito

Updated the video for my match plane blog entry on the #45, finally.

http://lumberjocks.com/Mosquito/blog/40339


----------



## planepassion

Mos, very nice. I look forward to watching it.

Quick question. I just picked up a #45. And it's missing a set screw in the fence. I think it's a 3/16" wide screw but I can't seem to place the thread count. Can anyone help me? Where can I find one?


----------



## Mosquito

I'm not sure on the threads yet, but I can see if I can check. This is the type of screw that goes there:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HTF-Stanley-No-45-No-55-LOCKING-SCREW-Micro-Adjusting-Left-Fence-Side-Type-/181667050029?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4c33322d

Apparently there was also a smaller slotted head style as well, but I've yet to see one on any of the #45's I've had.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Slotted-Stanley-No-45-No-55-LOCKING-SCREW-Micro-Adjusting-Fence-Top-/181649191583?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4b22b29f

nhplaneparts is always a great place to find plane parts. Prices are usually quite reasonable, and he's really great with communication, and quick shipping
http://www.ebay.com/usr/nhplaneparts?_trksid=p2047675.l2559


----------



## Tim457

Great video Mos. So the 55 stuff is up next right? Oh, I forgot, I said no pressure.  There is a fair bit less out there on how to use the 55 but a lot of the 45 stuff is applicable.


----------



## Buckethead

Alright, panel. Any thoughts on the Fulton version of the combination plane? Seems like the only affordable way to get to one.


----------



## Mosquito

As long as it's all there Bucket, I don't see a reason not to. I've seen a couple go by on eBay, and have been tempted…

Tim, indeed a lot of the #45 stuff applies to the #55, it's really just the complex cutters that the #55 differs (any time you're using the skate than you can adjust the height of), really. I'll get there eventually, but I've run out of shot video now for the #45 lol


----------



## planepassion

Thank you Moss. Picking up the missing parts is tacking on a fair bit of cost. But at least the parts are available.


----------



## Mosquito

Could always use it with out it for a while too. The micro-adjust is nice to have, though. I'll see if I have any existing screws I know the thread of, that fit.


----------



## planepassion

I received the fence set screw today and love it. I got it along with several other parts to form a complete #45. Now I want to start using it!

Now Moss. What's your method of sharpening the #45's knickers/spurs?


----------



## oltexasboy1

For those that might care there is a set of #55 cutters for sale on Ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-STANLEY-PLANE-NO-55-CUTTERS-/221698005161?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item339e3b18a9#ht_366wt_1238


----------



## theoldfart

This is an interesting precursor to the 45's


----------



## Mosquito

yeah Kevin, those things are sweet, for no reason other than complexity lol I found one at my local M-W TCA meet this spring. It didn't have any bases, but I was still tempted for some reason


----------



## WoodenGhost

Hey guys, So I too just recently became a proud owner of a 45. But I am having some difficulty using it efficiently. I have to battle each stroke which gets tiring after a while. Is there a specific angle you guys find most effective? Some post back I saw 30*-35*. I was running it at 25* so Ill try those. Anyways, on with the pics.

Ward Master 45


----------



## theoldfart

How thick are your shavings WGhost? Are you taking a full length stroke first shot? Check out Mosquito's videos on setting up and using the 45's.


----------



## WoodenGhost

I couldn't find the original shavings so I reset it again and am getting between .0010 and .0012. On this time around, which surprisingly, was a lot easier to use. What I did notice was that it is really sensitive. Just a slight movement of the knob can make it cut too much or not at all.

Also, no I am not taking full strokes. I try to complete the first cut using 4 strokes. I did watch the video first before I got started that why I was like man, how does he make it look so easy!!!

What thickness should I be striving for?

Thanks for your help

GhoSt


----------



## Mosquito

Shoot for whatever allows you to use it lol

There are times that having a very thin shaving and a lot of passes is required. One example is when you're forced to plane against the grain, because of changing grain directions or which side of the board has to be the face, etc.

Honestly, the bevel angle of the plane shouldn't matter on its use, only how quickly it gets dull.


----------



## WoodenGhost

Ok.

Guess its one of those tools you have to play around with to learn its sweet spot. Ill keep playing with it then.

Thank you very much.


----------



## dbray45

I have a 55 and the the first thing I did was to sharpen the blades. Most of them were still the factory sharp and the ones that had been sharpened were poorly done. The old blades were good steel and this took several days with diamond plates.

When I was done, the plane was incredible. Keep the shavings very thin and adjust using culls until you have the cut performing the way you want - this takes me about a 1/2 hour. Once adjusted, I made the moldings for my window in about 10 minutes.


----------



## theoldfart

Everyone needs one of these


----------



## johnstoneb

Yes. I would bid on it except he wants $50 for shipping.


----------



## theoldfart

Shipping does seem high, you might be able to chew him down! Offer him, say 49.99


----------



## Mosquito

Holy yes, yes we do.


----------



## WayneC

I've been watching it to snipe it at the end…


----------



## theoldfart

Hope you get it Wayne, just don't forget my finders fee


----------



## WayneC

LOL. Been in my watch list since it was listed. I watched it so I could post it in the Handplane of Dreams thread and then got distracted.

Still kicking myself for not buying the $32 BIN #55 the the other day.


----------



## fuigb

Anyone have the particulars for the screw used to secure the front tote/handle? Mine came to me without the tote and after using the tool without it I decided that I may get better results if I replace this missing part.. But none of the taps that I've used in an attempt to ID size and threads have matched up. I'm not averae to retapping but would rather not if I can find whatever oddball size screw is needed.


----------



## Disneytodd

Brad I took mine out of my 55 fence and put my thread gauge on it its 28tpi. I used my pliers to hold the screw level on my bench so the thread pitch gauge would read correctly while I took the picture. I hope this helps I forgot to measure the length of if needed I can do that tomorrow it's my bed time.


----------



## oltexasboy1

That is either a # 12 or a 1/4 inch, those are the only sizes that are cut with a 28 thread count. If you get an after market you may have to use a socket head bolt with the correct thread. See the link for bolt head types.
https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/type-chart.aspx


----------



## planepassion

Thank you DTodd! I did end up buying a vintage screw off of Ebay. But you've added a valuable tidbit of info for this thread.


----------



## fuigb

Thanks guys, but it seems that I've inadvertently asked in a confusing way. I need size and count for the screw or threaded rod that runs down through the tote/knob and into the body of the fence.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Hopefully this is kosher (under the "other" part of the thread title), but I'm wondering if some of the combo plane scholars can tell me what this is and if it's a steal or over-priced or something in between -










I didn't get my hands on it, but it's got a roll of 20 irons. Looks like it has a (missing) cross-type knicker. Priced at $90.


----------



## 33706

*William,*
Is that the Fulton that just passed thru eBay?


----------



## WillliamMSP

No, I saw this locally. Didn't see the makers mark on it, but figured that basket-weave might be distinctive. Fulton, then? Any good?


----------



## 33706

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/FULTON-COMBINATION-PLANE-WITH-22-CUTTERS-TOOL-/251838999303?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa2c62b07

I don't care much for Fulton… unless priced VERY reasonably…or a Transitional.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Thanks for that - I'll do a little more digging on it. The one that I saw looked like it was in better shape than the one on ebay, and $20 less when you factor in the shipping.

Oh, and Fulton *is* the name of the neighborhood that I live in…


----------



## DocBailey

Union, I think - and don't let it get away.


----------



## Mosquito

I believe the Fulton combination plane was made by Sargent:

(Sargent 1080)









Also, if you're in the Fulton neighborhood, you're not far from me in North Bloomington… (If I've got the right area in mind)


----------



## WillliamMSP

Cool, thanks guys.

If it's more or less complete, I take it it's worth the $90 as a user? Any ideas on availability/compatibility of small parts that get lost, like the depth stops and spurs (it has the cross-type, not the round)? It's a little bit of a drive, but I'll have to see if I can get back up there in the next couple days to get hands-on and see what was in the roll.

Mos - yeah, probably not too far, I'm just SW of Lake Harriet.


----------



## donwilwol

I don't think I posted this here yet.

A siegley #2.


----------



## Mosquito

Mmm, very nice Don. I've been eyeballing the Siegley plow planes for a little while now…


----------



## JayT

> If it s more or less complete, I take it it s worth the $90 as a user?


Heck, yeah! Tough to find any combo plane with cutters for under $150.

I have no idea on cross compatibility of small parts, but things like nickers/spurs aren't too hard to make if the Stanley ones don't fit.


----------



## WayneC

You guys remind me I need to make some combination plane boxes…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Don, we need a full expose on that Siegley either here, or over on the Epic Thread, Sir… Please!!


----------



## theoldfart

I'll second the motion!


----------



## WillliamMSP

So I took a drive back up to Anoka and the plane was still there. I picked it up for $80. It came with 21 cutters, long and short rods. It is missing one of the spurs and the depth stop on the sliding skate.










Any recommendations for cleaning it up?


----------



## oltexasboy1

the depth stop looks just like the one for the 45. you might take the measurements and check with Mos and see if they are the same. Nice looking plane, good find.


----------



## JayT

> Any recommendations for cleaning it up?
> 
> - WillliamMSP


Don't. Just wax it and use it.

Looks to be in very good shape and as long as everything moves and is rust free, it's not necessary to make it all shiny.

Spurs are only needed if going cross grain-I've done that with my 45 exactly once in over two years. I also do not use the depth stop on the skate, just the one on the main body, so you should be in good shape for using even if you don't come up with parts. If you need/want them, and they are the same as a stanley, try nhplaneparts on ebay.


----------



## Mosquito

I concur with JayT. It looks to be in very usable shape as is, just maybe clean up the irons and that's it.

And I'm similar on the missing parts. I rarely use the depth stop on the skate, and not often more than 1 spur. Skip buying a second spur for dado's, and get a #46 instead  (Here, let me help push you down this here slippery slope lol)


----------



## WillliamMSP

Gotcha! Yeah, I'm not too worried about it cosmetically. I just pulled it apart and there's a little bit of rust on the threads and the long rods, so they're not moving as freely as I'd like. Other than that, though, it's in good shape.

Geez, man - I haven't even touched a piece of wood with this plane and these enablers are putting another plow on my shopping list.


----------



## racerglen

If I remember correctly Bill, the rods run in a .38 to .40 calibre hole so a gun cleaning brush is a great help.


----------



## donwilwol

> Don, we need a full expose on that Siegley either here, or over on the Epic Thread, Sir… Please!!
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I haven't even had time to try it yet Smitty. I plan on writing a blog, but it may be a while. I've got a lot of stuff ahead of it. I'm a bit behind.


----------



## DLK

Can someone tell me how the Beading Stop (part 73) and the Depth Gauge (part 77) are used and where they go? I find no references in the manual. Note Depth Gauge (part 77) is not the adjustable depth gauge (part 70).

I now think am only missing Parts: 25,76,75,80,81. But I only have Cutters 1, 6, 11, 19 and a weird cutter that Mos sold me that does not look like the cutters in the manual, but may do the job the 1/4 inch match cutter, i.e cutter # 5. Maybe its from a 45 clone.


----------



## Mosquito

These were the irons in question.

The 'weird one' I assume is the one that's in the middle, and it's just a later version of the 1/4" match iron (iron #5). It's the same style my main #45 has as well.

As for the depth stop and beading stop, they're both used in the hole in the front of the sliding skate (30). The depth stop is just another depth stop, but used when cutting a dado.










The beading stop is used as an auxiliary fence when adding a bead to a tongue board. (beading stop is 'T')


----------



## DLK

Thanks Mos, your explanation of the "weird" cuter is an alternative that I thought of later. 
Also thanks for the clear explanation for the beading stop and the depth stop, but
this means I need another thumb screw too! Grrrr….


----------



## Mosquito

Well, technically if you wanted to you could just 'borrow' one from the fence, as neither of the two depth stops really get used at the same time as the fence…

Also, for what it's worth, I haven't used the second depth stop there for much yet. (I have a #46 for dado's though).


----------



## DLK

Well, there is a chance I'll get a few moments to try her out again on Sunday. Eventually I'll get it write and post some pics.


----------



## Lucasd2002

How easy is the replacement of the wooden handle? I found a 45 in the wild locally and the owner says "no rust, but the wooden handle has a crack." Of course, he also said that it was "complete with all parts" but when I asked, he said that he has a total of one cutter. No pictures yet. He's asking $35.


----------



## Mosquito

A complete #45, even with a cracked tote is easily worth $35 in my opinion. If it's got all the parts, but just missing irons.

As far as replacing the tote, it's held in place by brass pins. Don W had a post about it at one point, but can't seem to find it at the moment. Maybe he'll be able to post more about it


----------



## Lucasd2002

> A complete #45, even with a cracked tote is easily worth $35 in my opinion. If it s got all the parts, but just missing irons.
> 
> As far as replacing the tote, it s held in place by brass pins. Don W had a post about it at one point, but can t seem to find it at the moment. Maybe he ll be able to post more about it
> 
> - Mosquito


Thanks Mos. I talked to the guy on the phone and he admitted to not knowing much about the plane. In addition to only having one cutter, I don't think he has more than one pair of rods either.


----------



## Lucasd2002

oops, please delete this post


----------



## DLK

Print out the Manual. When you go to buy the plane (and you will), show him all the parts that are missing, offer him $25 and settle for $30. (Then spend $50-$100 or more buying cutters and missing parts.) I started with a $37 purchase and now I have 6 parts and 17 cutters to go. A $96 investment so far. Owning a 45 is not just owning a tool its a taking on a new hobby. But you can't call yourself a real hand tool man with out mastering a 45 or a 55. The rest are just pretenders! LOL. So what are you waiting for go haggle and buy it.


----------



## Lucasd2002

Couldn't say no.




























I paid $35…

And he threw in this wooden Stanley plane (which is missing the iron):





































DonK: I did take a printed manual.

Any help identifying the woodie would be appreciated.


----------



## Tim457

It's definitely not complete, but I think I would have paid $35 too. I think you'd go broke trying to complete all the parts for this one, so keep on the lookout for another and use this one as a parts plane. You can certainly use it if you find some irons or make some.

Is that other thing really a Stanley? I've never seen such a thing from them. It has two domed screws on the skate and I assume flat head screws are supposed to be there. What does the whole front look like, what profile would it cut if it had an iron?


----------



## DocBailey

^ The wooden plane is a Sandusky Tool Co (Ohio) product


----------



## DLK

*Lucasd2002* yes a bit incomplete, I think the fence has been put on the wrong side for most operations. You do have a part I don't have. But as *Tim* said getting another will probably be a cheaper route than what I did to try and complete a 45. Glad you got it and good on you for at least getting something more. I agree with *Tim* should be flat head screws on the skate. I've often thought about picking up one of these iron-less planes and cutting/shaping a cutter out of a used file.


----------



## DLK

I think I'll make a proper box for my 45. Can some tell me the inside dimensions of the original box?


----------



## DLK

This for *Smitty* and *Mos*. Smitty sold me a 45 with no cutters Mos sold me some cutters. Here is my first success with the 45.

Cutting a tongue or match:








Not to bad!

Flipped the board over and cut a groove or plow:








Not perfect. I should have taken the time and measured, but set the fence by eye.

Lets see if it fits. I had just finished the restoration of this miter box and saw, So I thought lets try it. I cut the tongued/grooved board in half.









The tongue in the groove.








Not a perfect fit but not that bad. I'm not certain that the cutters were a matched tongue and groove pair anyway.

One side thing was I got good at cleaning up and putting a new edge on a practice board with my Stanley 5.
I had a few failed attempts.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Hey, that'll put a smile on your face! Excellent progress, Don! Good to see that plane making shavings, for sure!

And nice job with the miterbox, too. Gonna mount it to a 1x for stability?


----------



## DLK

Thanks *Smitty*. I had hoped it would put a smile on your face. Eventually I probably will mount the MiterBox to a 1x, or maybe if I can find the shop room I will mount the M-box on its own table. I can clamp the legs to the bench if necessary with out the 1x.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice! I found with my set of #45 irons, the 1/4" groove iron didn't quite fit my 1/4" tongue iron perfectly. I worked the iron a little thinner so that it'd fit better for tongue and groove.

+1 on the miter box. I have mine attached to a board long enough that I can get the hold fasts on it to use on the bench top. Much nicer.


----------



## Tim457

My mitre box came with a cleat on the bottom of the mounting board that makes it easy to throw in a vice. Very handy.


----------



## DLK

Well *Mos*., when I build a proper work bench this summer, It will have hold fasts. For now I'm using a craftsman work bench with two face vices and 1/2" dog holes, with pressed metal legs and drawers. Good enough for my purposes pre my hand-tool obsession, but no longer. I can actually get to my wood for the workbench project as of yesterday. So I may be starting soon. The Miter box if used on the work bench forces the front edge to be at least 30" away from a wall. This might be an issue for my narrow hybrid shop.

*Tim* I've thought about doing exactly that. But then I guess I would have to support the back edge when it is sleeping. Maybe the solution is to hinge a front cleat. I think I have an idea.

I'll be posting the story of this miter box and saw on the "... of your dreams" forum. Stay tuned.


----------



## Lucasd2002

Guys, what is my 45 missing other than front knob (and associated fastener), second set of rods, and (all but one of the) cutters/irons?


----------



## DLK

^ A part list for the 45 lis give on the last page of the manual. If you didn't get some loose parts with it, then it looks like you are missing parts 75,78,73,77,81,80. But it is hard to say from the photos. Not all the parts are used in every operation. I don't have 75,78,80 and I am missing one thumb screw. 81,80 the cam stop and set screw are almost never used. For narrow blades like the dado/groove I cut above, the manual says to not to use the sliding section, which helped tremendously when I removed it. The moral is read the manual carefully.

I'm working on some ideas for constructing a new front knob. The difficulty is in making one that will thread on. The one I have is loose and has lost all its threads. I wrapped tape around the screw to snug it up. Smitty suggested that I just epoxy it on, but I am reluctant to do so.


----------



## Mosquito

Lucas, it's not that easy to tell from the pictures you posted, but I'll do my best…


Beading stop
Secondary depth stop
Knurled nut for main depth stop
Screw for securing main depth stop
Main depth stop
Short rods
Cam rest
Knob
Knickers?

Also of note, the knob you'd be looking for is the harder to find version. That is, instead of a threaded rod and brass nut to hold it in place, it's a threaded knob that just screws onto the fence.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Knurled nut for main depth stop

-I have one of these, I t hink.


----------



## DanKrager

ComboProf, I have two suggestions to secure the knob on your 45. 
1. Wax or grease the daylights out of the metal threads and then epoxy the knob on. The epoxy won't stick to the wax or grease but it will form threads that are pretty good match…enough to tighten on if needed. It should make the knob removable, but I wouldn't until it becomes necessary for some reason.
2. Gently heat the metal threads to maybe 200° and fill the hole in the knob with thermal set adhesive (from a glue gun). Screw the knob on before things cool and let it set until cool. The knob will be removable by reheating the metal until the glue melts.

DanK


----------



## Tim457

Anybody know what the thread size is on the screw for a 55 that holds the foot on the center skate? Knowing stanley it's not standard, but it could be. I pulled one out of my other 55, but it's a small enough screw I can't identify the threads by just looking at them. The outside diameter of the threads is 3/16" and by my best guess it would be about 32TPI. I really need to order a decent thread gauge.

Don, the cleat on mine sticks out an inch or less, so it doesn't cause a problem at all. I just set the mitre box down and it tips back a bit, but not enough for the saw to hit the ground. But if you don't have enough clearance that's a bigger problem.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dan, those are great (and detailed) suggestions. Don can obviously do whatever he wants with his plane, but the knob is an early 'beaded' variety that suffered a split at some point that was repaired with a winding of copper wire. I love that kind of provenance, and so suggested epoxy as a fix-over-replace.

And finally, I have no idea how to do a 'stopped tap' that would be needed. Drill a slightly undersized hole and just screw it on, I guess. And hope it doesn't split.


----------



## DLK

Thanks *Dan* those are some good ideas I had not thought of.

*Smitty* my plan was to sharpen the lead thread, turn a knob with a correct size hole. Then use the sharpened thread to cut threads into the knob. Sort of the same way you would cut a wooden nut for a wooden screw.

*Tim* I was of course thinking it would need a bigger cleat, but of course not… silly me.

I was going to start on a dovetail box for the 44, but instead started cleaning up another saw.


----------



## houblon

Dan, the suggestion number 1 will not work, because the threaded rod is not threaded all the way around, but flat on two sides. You can see that on Lucasd's 2nd picture. With epoxy you would not be able to turn it anymore.

I turned a new knob from walnut, drilled a hole (I think 1/4' it was) and simply screwed it onto the thread. So far it holds rock solid (6 month). Knock on wood…


----------



## DanKrager

Good eye houblon. I've not seen one with flats like that. Mine seem to be full round with sort of rough cast round crest threads. Maybe I'm confused.

Again.

DanK


----------



## DLK

I a question. I received today 11 beading bits for the 45 that I e-bay bin purchased. Several of them have a slight bend. Is this natural. i.e. is it a bend that occurs from use? Perhaps improper use. A bend from over clamping. Is it some sort of adjustment that was made to make them work better? I'm sure they can be straightened. Should I straighten them or use them as is? BTW you could not tell this defect from the e-bay pictures, nor do I believe the seller was aware of the defect.


----------



## Mosquito

I've noticed that on a few of mine as well. I'm not sure what it's from, but haven't seemed to notice any issues from it either. As long as the iron still contacts the skate all is good, no reason to un-bend them. It may also be that it helps keep it engaged with the depth adjuster too, no idea.


----------



## DLK

Thanks for letting me know. I'm excited to try them but alas its off to Syracuse to visits my Mom (and rust hunt). After Mothers day I get a week in the shop. (If SWMBO and DWMBW let me.)


----------



## upchuck

DWMBW?
Dog Who Must Be Walked?


----------



## DLK

*upchuck*: Exacatly!

*Mos*: I couldn't stand it. Put the dog on the long string after her walk. Went in put a small beeder in the 45 and cut a bead on the edge of a scrap 2 by 4 cut off. Sweet. Seems when you tighten down the iron the bend goes away.

*Question*: In order to move the cutter. I loosen the wing nut. Pick up a hammer tap the wing nut. Then I can move the cutter. This can't be what to do can it? Is there a better way?


----------



## Mosquito

There should be a little hold down for the wing nut that should keep it from coming out when you loosen it. But what you've described is indeed what I usually end up having to do with my #46's which doesn't have that collar


----------



## DocBailey

^ nice catch Upchuck!


----------



## Airframer

The bend in the 45 irons is usually added by the user and is typically suggested so that when the blade is tightened it sits tightly against the skate (Bend is usually added with the hump going upwards when placed in the plane.. hope that makes sense…). I usually add a bit of bend to my 45 irons when I sharpen them the first time.


----------



## DLK

Thanks (again) Airframer … that what I had thought was likely the case …. nice to have the confirmation.

Where is it typically suggested ?


----------



## Airframer

I cannot for the life of me remember where I first read that but it made sense so I started doing it. I have noticed that on blades that I hadn't bothered putting a slight bend in the blade can have a tendency to chatter and upon inspection you can see that when the blade is tightened into place it causes the sharp end to lift off the skate slightly.. hence the bend to cause it to press down onto the skate when tightened.


----------



## DLK

I had read basically the same thing about blades in the 60 1/2 . I found that if you over tighten the lever cap screw that as you say the sharp end lifts off the bottom. The solution was to not over tighten the screw, to just tighten enough to hold the lever cap and to rely on the cam lock to prevent the lever cap from moving. This adjustment I think is not possible on the 45. But to be honest I'm just starting with the 45 still experimenting and practicing.


----------



## racerglen

Don, Combo, one thing I found on two of mine was the wing nut had separated from the base end, in effect leaving a washer under the hold down Mos refers to, leaving the adjustment non functional when turning the wing nut, and then hammer time as you say.


----------



## DLK

Look what I have:










All complete. See the rust hunting thread (post #709) for the story.


----------



## mramseyISU

I just picked up a 45 today at handworks. Now what? Any good reading to figure out how the hell to use it?


----------



## theoldfart

Go to Mosquito's blog posts, lots of 45 how to videos there.


----------



## Tim457

Between that and the just playing with it you should be off to a good start.

The instructions aren't bad to help understand the thing either:
http://www.hansbrunnertools.com/Stanley%20by%20numbers/45instructions.pdf
Some of the stuff there on the other combination planes might help too:
http://www.hansbrunnertools.com/Stanley%20by%20numbers/Tips.htm


----------



## mramseyISU

> Between that and the just playing with it you should be off to a good start.
> 
> The instructions aren t bad to help understand the thing either:
> http://www.hansbrunnertools.com/Stanley%20by%20numbers/45instructions.pdf
> Some of the stuff there on the other combination planes might help too:
> http://www.hansbrunnertools.com/Stanley%20by%20numbers/Tips.htm
> 
> - Tim


I've been looking for the manual all afternoon. Thanks.


----------



## Mosquito

I hope to be working on more #45 videos this summer, so I can work on some #55 videos as well 

Seems as though the Stan Faullin manual link is now dead… I'll have to update it to the Hans link, as that's the same manual.

Or maybe make my own from the manual I've got…


----------



## DLK

Roy Underhill gives a good demonstration of the 45 and 55 while comparing them to wooden molding planes.


----------



## DLK

> I hope to be working on more #45 videos this summer, so I can work on some #55 videos as well
> 
> Seems as though the Stan Faullin manual link is now dead… I ll have to update it to the Hans link, as that s the same manual.
> 
> Or maybe make my own from the manual I ve got…
> 
> - Mosquito


I have a download of the Stan Faullin manual as a pdf. Would that help?


----------



## Tim457

> Or maybe make my own from the manual I ve got…
> 
> - Mosquito


That would be great as the resolution in either of the current ones isn't that great. And there's always demand for your videos when you get a chance.


----------



## Mosquito

I warn that these two links are large (a 16MB image, and a 60MB PDF)
http://themodsquito.com/images/woodworking/Stanley_45_Manual.png

http://themodsquito.com/images/woodworking/Stanley_45_Manual_small.pdf

Those were scans from the manual that I've got. It seems to be pretty clear and easy to read. Will probably update the first post with links once I get them to a more permanent home I think…


----------



## Tim457

Nice Mos, thanks.


----------



## upchuck

All-
I have some and want to trade for some #45 cutters. More information here if you're interested.
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/99018
thanks
chuck


----------



## mramseyISU

Ok now that I've had a chance to play around with my new 45 I've got some questions on technique. I I'm having trouble with it tearing the wood towards the end of a cut when I'm going with the grain. I've tried both the tongue cutter and cutting grooves (well rabbits too) and it wants to grab and take a deeper cut than what I want towards the end of a cut. I think I'm more or less doing it right, starting by nibbling at the end of the cut and working my way back slowly to the beginning of the cut but it wants to split out a big chunk screwing up my workpiece. What should I be trying different?


----------



## Mosquito

When you say end of the cut, do you mean the far end where the plane exits the work piece, or the near end where it enters the work piece? (just verifying, as you mentioned starting at the far end and working back, so not sure what the "end" of your cut is in that context)


----------



## mramseyISU

Sorry. End of the cut = where the plane leaves the workpiece.


----------



## theoldfart

Try transferring hand pressure from the front of the plane at the start of the cut to the rear of the plane at the end of the cut. Also are you using the depth stops? You should not have any cutting going on by the time you reach your desired depth. Finally how big of a shaving are you taking? Thin shavings will give the best overall results.


----------



## mramseyISU

I'm using the depth stop. I feel like I'm putting most of the pressure on the back handle and using the front knob as more of a guide. I'm not putting much pressure on the front at all I don't think.


----------



## DLK

Did you first chamfer the end?

I suspect you are running over the end. (Even though you say you think your putting most of the pressure on the back, you probably are putting enough on the front that when you run over the end the front drops and you get the tear out. Light thin cuts as TOF says is the way to go.


----------



## theoldfart

mramsey, I also don't use the front knob. I put pressure on the rosewood fence in stead.


----------



## Airframer

I have learned to work the piece from the far end first and work my way to the beginning. Backwards from normal if you will.


----------



## mramseyISU

I took another pass at it this afternoon. Looks like too much pressure on the front. It's going to take some practice like anything but I got a pretty good looking rabbit on my second pass.


----------



## Mosquito

Good to hear it! It took a little use before I got used to it too. And then the other thing that took a few attempts was getting used to making sure it was perfectly perpendicular the whole time, and always enough pressure against the fence so it didn't cut a rabbet that wasn't square…

And starting from the far end and working your way back is the easiest way to longer pieces than you can do in a single stroke. Not required for shorter pieces, but still useful.


----------



## theoldfart

Glad it worked out.


----------



## mramseyISU

Yeah getting the fence squared up to the cut was my first challenge that took some messing around to get the feel of but I think I have that one.

The next thing I want to tackle is cross grain cuts. I tried one yesterday but I don't feel like the nickers are sharp enough. Should I sharpen them up and how should I go about it? I'm guessing I need to lap the flat side and leave the other one alone.


----------



## Mosquito

Well… having the back flat is important, however the main "sharpening" that I do with mine is on the bevel of the knicker (The side that goes against the skate). The problem with sharpening from the back, is that eventually it won't line up with the skate anymore, which likely won't be good.

The other thing is what kind of wood are you using?

One thing I like about the "old" style knickers (where it's not the 3-prong spur, but just the two sided knicker than can slide up and down) is that you can set it to slice just deep enough for the cut you're making, and not much further. This makes it easier in harder woods, in my experience.


----------



## DLK

So, Mos, that brings up a question I have on the 3 prong nickers spurs. It seems that you can rotate so that either of the prongs becomes the active prong. Hence one could sharpen them so that they are at different lengths for different wood species. Is that what is supposed to be done? Or is it so that you would be able to have a new prong when that last one gets dull and can no longer be resharpened? Or was so that Stanley could make money selling replacement spurs.


----------



## racerglen

Question Mos, my latest 45 is down to the forward nicker on the main body still rusted up so it won't be done anytiime soon, but in the meantime found this..








The knob is screwed down and the same style as a later type I have, BUT the post it goes on has the coarse threading for the direct threading of the knob. there's also plating still visible atop the post..someone's later day alteration do you think ?








The screw sitting there is what it came with the top's obviously filed a bit.
(oh, and if I threaded the screw further in, it'd line up properly)


----------



## rhybeka

Looks like I'll be trying to learn to do stopped grooves with my 45. Anybody have any tips? 

In the meantime, I'll be working on my technique as well!


----------



## DanKrager

Yes I do, Beka. Keep a set of chisels handy.

DanK


----------



## JayT

> Looks like I ll be trying to learn to do stopped grooves with my 45. Anybody have any tips?
> 
> In the meantime, I ll be working on my technique as well!
> 
> - rhybeka





> Yes I do, Beka. Keep a set of chisels handy.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


And a router plane.

The only time I use my #45 for stopped grooves is if one end of the groove goes all the way to the end of the board and the other is stopped. If both ends are stopped, it's chisels and the router plane.


----------



## Mosquito

> Looks like I ll be trying to learn to do stopped grooves with my 45. Anybody have any tips?
> 
> In the meantime, I ll be working on my technique as well!
> 
> - rhybeka
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I do, Beka. Keep a set of chisels handy.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And a router plane.
> 
> The only time I use my #45 for stopped grooves is if one end of the groove goes all the way to the end of the board and the other is stopped. If both ends are stopped, it s chisels and the router plane.
> 
> - JayT
Click to expand...

Pretty much my approach too. Can't really do a stopped groove with just a #45 by itself, as the skates prevent that from happening


----------



## rhybeka

thanks guys! I figured as much. My case joinery is going to be box/finger joints (cause I'm too chicken to start with dovetails) with a locked rabbet to hold the back of the back panel in. Luckily for me, I have a router plane too!  I have some utilitarian chisels that do ok…still working on decent woodworking ones.


----------



## donwilwol

I actually like the looks of a box.joint better. Maybe it just makes me a bit square. But the question, why is a hand cut box joint harder than a dovetail?


----------



## DLK

Decided to shine up and and take the Stanley 46 out for a spin.










I need more practice but did manage a groove. It helps by the way to put the blades in bevel down. More difficult to use then the 45, because there is no screw to control the advancement of the blade. You just have to tap it forward. One you get the feel of it it works fine.

There was very little rust on the plane. I just cleaned it with WD-40. The blades got an evapo-rust soak and simple green scrubbing. Only the 7/8 cutter (6-th from the left) has a rust pitted edge and will need re-grinding. One of the two point spurs is broken. Otherwise I think it is all there, but I cannot find a parts list anywhere. The box has a faint stamp saying "cutter set for plane no. 46."


----------



## Mosquito

Wow, that is an incredible looking #46 Combo! Definitely jealous of that one.

I just started a list, and looked up all the types of #45's I've got..

Type 2, 4, 8, 11, 12, and 15 (with 2 T8's). Almost surprised I only had 1 duplicate type…


----------



## DLK

So do you have experience with a Craftsman 3728 Combination Plane. In particular how can I tell who made it? Apparently it was made at one time or a another by, Stanley, Millers Falls, and Sargent. I'll try to clean it up and post some pictures tomorrow.


----------



## DLK

> Wow, that is an incredible looking #46 Combo! Definitely jealous of that one.
> 
> - Mosquito


Thanks Mos. It is a type 10,11 or 12 according to this type study. But I don't know which.


----------



## Mosquito

If you've got pictures, we can probably figure it out. The made by Stanley ones look just like a Stanley #45, the sargent ones will have a different depth adjustment that are fairly easy to identify


----------



## DLK

Thanks for the hint! I think its a Sargent. Yes definitely made by Sargent. I'll post pictures tomorrow.


----------



## Mosquito

Here's a Craftsman made by Sargent combination plane:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-CRAFTSMAN-BL-COMBINATION-PLOW-PLANE-NICE-STANLEY-45-/151732113835?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2353f051ab

Interestingly, I believe some Sargent combination planes were also made by Stanley at a certain point too


----------



## DLK

Got my Craftsman 3278 (made by Sargent) as cleaned up as I can today.

*Front:*









*Back:*









Looks exactly like the "ebay pic" you linked. Only difference is I do have both the short and long rods plus
all the cutters (I think.) There are in total 22. I left one in the plane. The rest are in a tool roll with only 18 slots. How many came with a Sargent combination plane?

*Cutters:*









I still have to clean up the cutters and tool roll. I am surprised that it was not eaten by the the 3 dead mice I found in the tool box where it resided. Probably bad idea to put cutters in a canvas tool roll. I would think it would guarantee moister issues. Maybe I should soak in in some oil or something. Do you think the roll is original to the craftsman or a tool owner addition?


----------



## Mosquito

I wouldn't be surprised if it was original. I know the Keen Kutter irons came in a canvas roll. I can look it up in the book I've got, to see if it mentions anything about it


----------



## DLK

Looks like 23 (maybe 24). I wonder which one I am missing. or did I miss count or nit get them all out of the canvas roll. See the manual for Sargent combination planes. Mos, I think you should add this manual to your "45 manuals list". Look at the manual though and see the carrying case for the Sargent 1080.


----------



## Mosquito

Usually a slitter is counted as an included iron, and it doesn't look like the Craftsman has a slitter, so that could be it


----------



## Tim457

That 46 is so nice. The craftsman isn't so bad either.


----------



## DLK

Thanks Tim. I have the cutters for the craftsman all de-rusted and cleaned up now. I going to try bleaching the tool roll to see if the rust stains will go away.


----------



## Mosquito

Latest addition to my #45 stable… a nice Type 2, with a neat storage box (non-original), and a set of irons


----------



## upchuck

Mos-
After your listing of the different types of #45's you have I was wondering which *one* is your favorite and what features make it your favorite. I know that it might be like picking your favorite child and I don't want to put you on the spot by making the others jealous but I was just wondering. I'm asking you to discount the condition of each of them and name your favorite from the design and features not condition or sentimental attachment.
Thanks, 
chuck


----------



## DLK

Nice Mos. I don't think I'll ever catch up.

I so want this one.










but it is out of my price range.

Also bleach will set rust stains in fabric so I won't be doing that.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

What is a 'Heritage Edition' Miller's Patent? Is that a refurb, or reproduction, or what? Phillips head bolts? Weird Stanley stamp. Etc. Anyone know?


----------



## Mosquito

I so want a millers patent… but yes, price range isn't easy to justify. One day I'll own a miller's patent…

Chuck, I'd say out of what I have, my type 12 or 15, reason being that from type 12 onward they came with micro adjustable fences, and not a whole lot else changed from then onward. That's from a user standpoint. From a collection standpoint, I the Type 2 is my favorite, as I like the look of it, and the slotted brass thumb screws with japanned casting appeals to me more. I prefer the slotted thumb screws of type 2 (and 3) over the non-slotted brass thumb screws of the type 1 for no reason other than I think the aesthetic looks nicer. Functionally, it's nice to have the knob on the main casting if you're using hollow and round bases as well (my main reason [ok, sort of] for getting the type 4 in the first place)


----------



## Mosquito

That's a good question Smitty… I'll have to see what I can dig up on that, now I'm interested too

As for "What I'd like"... 
Otis Smith Fales










They look pretty sweet, and I believe I read somewhere that it was one of the first "combination" planes out there


----------



## theoldfart

Moss, that'll cost you your first born plus your soul


----------



## upchuck

Thank you Mos.


----------



## DLK

> Latest addition to my #45 stable…
> 
> - Mosquito


Sounds like the till you make for them should look like a barn.


----------



## DLK

> What is a Heritage Edition Miller s Patent? Is that a refurb, or reproduction, or what? Phillips head bolts? Weird Stanley stamp. Etc. Anyone know?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


 Here and here is the best information I can find so far on Stanley's line of Miller's Patent planes.


----------



## CL810

Congrats on the type 2 Mos. A beauty to look at for sure. Mine has been on a shelf in my office since I acquired it. Lol, it's never been in the shop!


----------



## JayT

> What is a Heritage Edition Miller s Patent? Is that a refurb, or reproduction, or what? Phillips head bolts? Weird Stanley stamp. Etc. Anyone know?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


http://lumberjocks.com/topics/56851


----------



## Mosquito

> Sounds like the till you make for them should look like a barn.
> 
> - Combo Prof


hehe, probably

Great find JayT! So no, not a 'real' plane, but still looks cool. Also not any more expensive than a real plane, and cheaper in some cases…


----------



## Johnny7

.


----------



## NDakota

I have been following this thread since it began, and I cant thank you guys for all the info you have provided.Now I have a question? I bought a complete Craftsman combo at a auction last year, I paid 12$ by the way, it looks identical to the one Combo has but is numbered 3728. it came with the bottom of carboard box it was sold in so im fairly certain that is the number. What would the difference be? The box says 22 blades and they are stored in canvas roll. The canvas roll is a big PIA because not enough slots and much to tight to easily find blade you want. Again thanks for all the things Iv learned on Lumberjocks!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> What is a Heritage Edition Miller s Patent? Is that a refurb, or reproduction, or what? Phillips head bolts? Weird Stanley stamp. Etc. Anyone know?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop
> 
> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/56851
> 
> - JayT


JayT for the win. It's a Franklin Mint reproduction, not worth it.


----------



## DLK

I have assumed mine is a 3728 also, but I do not find the number anywhere. I have the same issue with the canvas roll and I have 22 blades.


----------



## Mosquito

> I have been following this thread since it began, and I cant thank you guys for all the info you have provided.Now I have a question? I bought a complete Craftsman combo at a auction last year, I paid 12$ by the way, it looks identical to the one Combo has but is numbered 3728. it came with the bottom of carboard box it was sold in so im fairly certain that is the number. What would the difference be? The box says 22 blades and they are stored in canvas roll. The canvas roll is a big PIA because not enough slots and much to tight to easily find blade you want. Again thanks for all the things Iv learned on Lumberjocks!
> 
> - NDakota


Glad to hear it! Spreading the joy of the combination plane  My Keen Kutter K64 irons came in a canvas roll as well, and I agree that it's actually quite annoying…


----------



## racerglen

Still waiting on the former owner to return home so we can go thru the box this was in to see how many parts he has..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Okay, I've been bitten by the #45 H/R bug.

Are there videos out there showing these being used to create a complete profile? Thought you did one, Mos, but it's not linked in the OP above…


----------



## Mosquito

It's not really a how-to, but I did a video here:


----------



## donwilwol

For you 45 collectors, I don't know how else to do this, I can't go straight from Instagram so its on my facebook page, https://www.facebook.com/timetestedtools


----------



## DLK

Picked up this box of cutters for free:










I was hoping they would b Stanley 45 cutters but they are not. Can anyone identify the maker of the combination plane they belong to. They do not have the notch and are 1/2" shorter than the Stanley blades.

(cross posted on the rust hunting forum)


----------



## Tim457

Looks to be a pretty good match for a set of cutters for a Stanley #50, but I'd have to go measure to see if that's short enough to fit a 50. Supertool doesn't list the length of the cutters.

Man I need to go raid your rust hunting spots, I have a 50 without cutters I got recently.


----------



## DLK

> Man I need to go raid your rust hunting spots, I have a 50 without cutters I got recently.
> 
> - Tim


I'm just getting lucky with rust hunting.

I have read that the early models of the 45 contained as few as 18 cutters. But the box I had was full and only contained 16 cutters. So maybe they are for a different plane for example the number 50.


----------



## DLK

> Man I need to go raid your rust hunting spots, I have a 50 without cutters I got recently.
> 
> - Tim


I m just getting lucky with rust hunting.

I have read that the early models of the 45 contained as few as 18 cutters. But the box I had was full and only contained 16 cutters. So maybe they are for a different plane for example the number 50. Reading Patrick's Blood and Gore it seems you may be correct they are for a #50. I wonder where the plane went? Probably sold before I got there.


----------



## DLK

I got one now. So here is a complete Sweetheart Stanley 50:


----------



## Mosquito

3 hours and the man finds an awesome looking #50… I need to get you my "shopping list" lol


----------



## DLK

Yeah. It was quite a remarkable day. (But I did have to wait a half hour for delivery.)


----------



## Tim457

Hah, that's amazing. Was it the same place or a different one? And does it have that chip deflector that B&G was talking about usually being missing?


----------



## DLK

No the 50 was sent here for restoration and sale from Texas. It only arrived this week. What deflector? O.K. I see it from "blood and gore" I'll go look in a bit. I have to run to the Hardware store now. Later….


----------



## DLK

> Hah, that s amazing. Was it the same place or a different one? And does it have that chip deflector that B&G was talking about usually being missing?
> 
> - Tim


It is indeed missing the chip deflector.


----------



## DonBroussard

I picked up a box of Stanley 45 stuff yesterday. It had three bodies, two sets of shorts and two sets of long rods, the original manual, the screwdriver, an almost-full box of cutters and the original metal box one of them came in. One of the bodies is different from the others in the depth adjustment knob, the iron "keeper" and the slitter. I can put up pictures if there's interest.



























Miscellaneous parts included in the get.









Not even sure this piece is part of a Stanley 45 package. It is a bit shorter than the irons, but about the same thickness, and it doesn't have the notch. The tip is pyramidal-shaped and it's pretty sharp. Any ideas?


----------



## lightcs1776

Nice find, Don.


----------



## Mosquito

Sweet score Don. The one on the right looks like it may be a Sargent made variant?


----------



## CL810

You're a lucky man Don. The blades look to be in very good shape. On my screen I couldn't pick up any pitting to speak of.


----------



## Tim457

Awesome score there Don. Manual, Screwdriver, cam stop. What's that thing near the slitting cutter?


----------



## DonBroussard

Thanks, all.

Mos-I haven't found any Sargent markings on that one yet. I disassembled and cleaned it enough to try to find markings of any manufacturer to no avail. All I found was "MADE IN U.S.A." and a couple of individual letter A, B and D.



















Tim-Here's a close up of that piece next to the slitter:










Smitty-There is not much pitting on the irons. BTW, one of the bodies is a real Sweetheart !


----------



## Mosquito

Sargent made is my guess, but not sure for who http://www.sargent-planes.com/sargent-1080-combination-plane/


----------



## donwilwol

I'd say its a Sargent 1080 to.


----------



## DonBroussard

Mos/DonW-I disassembled that one combination plane this afternoon and brushed it clean. No marks identifying Sargent as the maker, but based on that link that Mos provided, I'd agree that it's a Sargent 1080. Thanks for the input.


----------



## CL810

Look what arrived this morning!









My wife asked, "what does this one do?" Best answer is a demonstration. Sharpened up a blade and put it in action.


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice Andy!


----------



## JayT

Andy, that #55 looks a little worn and tired. Why don't you send it to me for a refresh? I'll get it back to you as soon as I'm done. Probably only take 30 years or so.

Green with envy, here.


----------



## Tim457

Sweet 55 Andy. I've been using that two fence trick to keep it square too.


----------



## Mosquito

^ it's a good trick, and how I used it for the smallest iron of that sort as well. Way easier


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Andy, I admit to being as green as those cutter labels right now. Awesome multiplane! Seriously! Congrats!


----------



## Johnny7

I apparently picked a good day for combo plane hunting …




























Came with all cutters, slitter and home-made box

And then there's this …


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice Johnny! A great looking #46 and #45 you've got there.

I've never seen a depth stop with a trademark stamp, that's pretty cool


----------



## Johnny7

Thanks, Mos


----------



## donwilwol

Even the box is in super shape. Very nice.


----------



## upchuck

Johnny7-
I agree with the above compliments but one thing I noticed has me confused (More than my normal confusion).
In the forth picture from the top what are those long (sharp?) things towards the bottom of the photo? The "things" that are covering the very bottom of the letters of the word "Combination"?
chuck


----------



## Johnny7

*Chuck*

those are two short lengths of approx'ly 1" wide spring steel which were once crate strapping on a machine I bought years ago-they've been kicking around in the trunk of my car ever since.

No connection to woodworking whatsoever


----------



## upchuck

Johnny7-
Thanks. I can now return to my normal state of confusion.
chuck


----------



## CL810

Very pretty finds Johnny. The 45 looks mint. Do you plan to use it? Save it?


----------



## rwe2156

Where can I get a nicker screw? Or does anyone know the size of it? 
Mine is missing one have a nicker from a 78 but the screw is too long.
If I can't find one, I'll just grind it shorter.
I've checked hardware store no such a critter.


----------



## Johnny7

> Very pretty finds Johnny. The 45 looks mint. Do you plan to use it? Save it?
> 
> - CL810


It'll probably go into the "collection" since I have an older one that I occasionally use (in almost as nice a condition).


----------



## JayT

> Where can I get a nicker screw?
> 
> - rwe2156


Same answer I posted on the #78 thread. New Hampshire plane parts on ebay. I know you've had some frustrations with ebay, but Eric is a good guy to deal with and any parts he lists will fit what he says they will, in my experience. If he doesn't have what you need listed right now, send him a message with what you need and he'll let you know when he finds one and is about to list it for sale.

http://stores.ebay.com/New-Hampshire-Plane-Parts?_rdc=1

Strongly recommend having him as a saved seller if you will ever need vintage plane parts. One word of caution-make sure you are ready for the part, he ships fast! It seems I finish the paypal transaction and the postal carrier drops the shipping envelope in my mailbox five minutes later. 

OK, maybe not quite that quick, but you won't be waiting around for your parts.


----------



## DLK

> Very nice Johnny! A great looking #46 and #45 you ve got there.
> 
> I ve never seen a depth stop with a trademark stamp, that s pretty cool
> 
> - Mosquito


*Mosquito*: For the record the depth stop for the #50 I posted earlier also has a trademark stamp.


----------



## esmthin

When I use my 45 I am getting really rough cuts on poplar. The cutters are sharp and I've tried going both directions. Any tips for smoother operation?


----------



## DanKrager

Sharp is a relative concept to us mortals, Ethan, but the wood knows. Hone the cutter until it chases hair from your arm before it touches. Take thinner cuts to start, and sneak up on optimum thickness. These are not heavy duty devices, and they require a rather delicate finesse. It should machine poplar with a near glass smooth finish unless the wood is wet.
Others will add more…stay tuned.

DanK


----------



## DLK

^Also, start at the far end and work back to the near end.


----------



## JayT

^ What they said. Sharp, thin cuts, controlling the plane so it's staying level.


----------



## CL810

I spent today trying to develop some "45 skills." Struggling with taking thin shavings. Best I achieved was .006". Is that good with the 45??


----------



## Mosquito

hmm, you know I've never actually measured any shavings before. I do know that in my experience, too thin of shavings causes issues with shavings ejecting


----------



## JayT

I never worry about thin shavings with the 45. Usually I'm after the thickest shaving that leaves a good finish so that it takes fewer strokes to get the groove done. I can see where a nice thin shaving might be good for the last few passes when doing a bead or other decorative cut in order to really smooth it out. I just haven't used mine for those very much.


----------



## CO_Goose

I just picked up a 45 at an Estate sale today. I haven't had much time to look it over yet, but it seems that the fence is stuck on the rods, so I have some penetrating oil working on that tonight. Anyway, here are the pictures of the 45



























A couple of questions. How old is it? The type studies that I have found group all of the sweetheart logos together, without distinguishing them. What parts am I missing? I do not have the short rods, only the long ones, and these are close to 10". What is the best way of cleaning up this 45, as I do not want to harm the nickel plating.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Mike


----------



## Mosquito

I can tell you it is a type 14, as i don't yet have one  If I were at home, I could look up the dates in my #45 book, but if no one does before Sunday, I'll try to remember.

As for parts, if you have all the irons, there is a slitter and slitter depth stop that go just in front of the handle on the right side. There is also a second depth stop and a beading fence that can go in the sliding skate. It's not too easy to tell, but it doesn't look like the rods are original. There were two sets, long and short. Otherwise it looks complete to me. Don't know how much, but looks like a nice score.

On a #45, I often use naval jelly to clean rust, along with a brass brush.


----------



## CL810

55 porn


----------



## Mosquito

^ worth every penny if you ask me. Not saying I could justify it, but DANG that is one fine plane, and for a reasonable price too (I've seen worse asking for more)


----------



## Tim457

Wow, nice one Andy. I'd be suddenly poorer if I didn't already have one.


----------



## CL810

For Mos,


----------



## Mosquito

That looks sweet!


----------



## CO_Goose

Finally had a chance to do an inventory of the 45. 
I am missing the 5/8" blade, Slitter blade, rear slitter stop, beading stop, Cam screw and brass "bullet", and one spur and screw. The second box of blades looks pretty rusted, i am sure that there will be some pitting on those blades, but hopefully the pitting will be where is does not matter as much. I'm not looking for a perfect example, just a solid user.

















Looks like I have some rehab to do on the blades to get them in working order.


















Some light rust on the skates










And the cam without any hardware.

I have several planes ahead of it in the rehab queue, so it might be a while before I get around to this one.

Hey Mos., did you ever get a date for the type 14?


----------



## Mosquito

Oh, thanks for reminding me, the book is on my desk right now… Type 14's were made in 1922


----------



## DLK

^ What book?


----------



## theoldfart

Don, it's Dave Heckel's guide to the 45.


----------



## DLK

Thanks, I'll look for it. (I assume its worth the having.)


----------



## theoldfart

I'm pretty sure both Mos and DonW have it. I picked up a signed copy from a dealer that was closing.


----------



## Mosquito

http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-Forty-Five-Combination-Plane-Identification/dp/B002OFI3OO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441457838&sr=8-1&keywords=the+stanley+45+combination+plane+by+david+heckel&pebp=1441457838079&perid=0N08KBQHZQBE625YHNTN

When I bought mine, they weren't that easy to find, not sure what it's like now. Obviously thee price guide portion isn't so useful anymore, but still a very thorough type study


----------



## donwilwol

I actually haven't found the 45 book yet. I do have Heckels Sargent book. I'm still bugging Mos with the 45 questions.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm Don's "I know a guy" lol


----------



## CO_Goose

Thanks Mos for the date on the Type 14. I find that it is interesting that they made that type for only one year.


----------



## DLK

There are 6 left for sale ($30) here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/STANLEY-45-PLANE-BOOK-D-Heckel-All-you-need-know-/261299992330


----------



## Mosquito

I guess I should have prefaced that they were hard to find cheap lol I paid $12 for mine when I got it


----------



## DLK

^ Yes. I'm not so eager to pay $30 for it, when you're next door.


----------



## CL810

Set out today to make a frame for a print that will be a gift. Wasted about 2 hours fooling around with my 45 only to discover that one of my long rods is out of round at one end. It was the first time I used the long rod on this particlar 45. (Long story.) Anyway, the out of round part made the rod not perpendicular to the main body so I was having a heck of a time keeping the left runner and fence parallel to the main body.

Finally got it working and I think all that mess just made it even more fun when it started producing shavings!


----------



## DanKrager

Oh that looks like tool porn to me, CL810. That's going to be pretty. I need to make a couple picture frames for pictures the grandkids have given me. Thanks for the inspiration!
DanK


----------



## CO_Goose

Did Stanley ever make a 9/16" cutter for the 45? 
It would have been between the #16 and #17 cutter sizes.


----------



## Mosquito

Not that I've ever found reference too. It wouldn't be hard to make your own though (assuming you're talking plowing iron)


----------



## CO_Goose

Yes, just a normal plow iron. From the rust pattern on it it appears to be a different steel than the other irons. Looks like the owner made replacement 1/2" and 9/16" cutters


----------



## Bundoman

Back together again!! Found the Stanley 46 in June at a garage sale with only a 3/16" cutter. The set of irons appeared on the famous auction site last week missing the 3/16" cutter. Dumb luck, I guess. Hoping to touch up the edges and try this little guy out soon.


----------



## Mosquito

Very cool Brent! Looks like a great example to use


----------



## Bundoman

Thank you, Mos. I have a couple of 45's and a 55 also that need some scrubbing. I really have to buckle down and get to learning how to use them. Been watching this thread for awhile to learn from you and others that have been using these things successfully. The 46 wasnt really in the plan but the skewed iron placement interested me as being great for tough wood. Just need more shop time. In the throws of school activities most days.


----------



## Mosquito

The #46 also works great for dado's and rabbets across the grain too, as long as you've got the knicker.

I also like that the skate is wider than the #45, so it's a little easier to feel what "square" is


----------



## Bundoman

The knicker is in place. I will have to give that a go!


----------



## Mosquito

Making a little display cabinet for my #45's (Plan is to make a second one to go next to it eventually)

All my #45's in their eventual place as well


----------



## donwilwol

Well done Mos.


----------



## Brit

Very nice Mos. Glad you left space for one more because let's face it, nine is just not enough is it? )


----------



## Mosquito

Absolutely not Andy. At least not when there's 20 different types


----------



## CL810

I cannot find where it was mentioned, but someone posted a link to the Stanley parts website where you can still order spurs and screws for the 45 and others. I ordered a set and wanted to let everyone know they are black. No big deal to me, but thought it might be to others.


----------



## DLK

> I cannot find where it was mentioned, but someone posted a link to the Stanley parts website where you can still order spurs and screws for the 45 and others. I ordered a set and wanted to let everyone know they are black. No big deal to me, but thought it might be to others.
> 
> - CL810


I posted the link (Stanleytoolparts.com). Thanks for the update. Interesting that they are black.


----------



## DLK

Is there a best way to cut a Dado for say shelving? How do you do it? Its not clear to me how accurate the saw kerf , chisel and Number 71 method will be. But maybe that is the best we can do.

I was pondering this yesterday while using my 78 to cut a rebate.


----------



## Mosquito

I've used just a knife, chisel, and #71 to great effect for dadoes before (especially stopped dadoes). I would suggest starting with a marking knife and 'knife wall' if you're worried about the accuracy of a saw kerf.

I have an example on video for my dutch toolchest





as well as pictures in my blog: http://lumberjocks.com/Mosquito/blog/44817

Otherwise, you can use a #45/46/55 as well. I've got a video from "a while ago" of that too (workmate) 




I've refined how I do them a little since; that was the second time I'd made a dado with a #45. I'll usually get started on a few back strokes to get the lines from the spurs, and then deepen them on the corner with a knife or chisel, and chop it back like I did to start the dado with the knife, saw, chisel, and #71 method, just to prevent any blow out on the back side.


----------



## DLK

Thanks, Mos, good videos. Maybe one could use straight edge to guide the saw kerfs as you did with the 45.

I'm just thinking ahead about making a vertical plane till. My horizontal one is killing my shoulder bursitis


----------



## Tim457

Yeah the knife and chisel (and router plane if you want) method works really well to get press fit dados. Here's also a Paul Sellers video on it, it's quite detailed and he uses the same technique in many of his project videos such as the wall clock series.




I've never done the saw kerf method because the chisel method is so accurate.


----------



## Mosquito

^ That's the video (the clock series) when I first started making dadoes that way


----------



## DLK

Thanks. I like Paul Sellers! (Looks like he used to be a LJ too.)


----------



## CL810

Thanks Don, appreciate the link. Can't have too many spurs around. Of course, now I'll never drop and lose another one!


----------



## WOmadeOD

*Storage Box for my Stanley #45*

I'm in the process of building a box for my homeless #45

For anyone interested, a blog on the whole build is being kept, starting here

Hope you find it interesting.

I'll also be posing a couple of videos on my YouTube channel in the future


----------



## DLK

Once you have a combination plane is there any point (besides the joy of collection) in obtaining the rabbet planes or tongue and groove planes, e.g. #190,192, 148, etc.


----------



## DanKrager

Combo, my thought is "not really". However, sometimes it is convenient to have the combination plane set up for one function while the others perform another function on the same piece. Mos has several 45s partly for that reason. I've found it handy to have more than one available. Like having two tablesaws, two or more bandsaws, or a couple lathes…
DanK


----------



## Mosquito

I like having at least 2 #45's so I can do tongue and groove with out having to swap set ups, which I find especially useful if you're going to be doing a lot, and don't necessarily want to do it all at once.

Otherwise, not really. You can do that stuff with a combination plane, however some planes are an easier/quicker set up than a combination plane. The #48 and #49 planes are way quicker than setting up the #45. A #50 is a lighter plane and slightly less cumbersome than a #45, but is set up the same way.

I guess what I'm getting at is, no you don't need it, but other options might be quicker. For a toolchest, however, a #45 would definitely get my vote


----------



## mramseyISU

> Once you have a combination plane is there any point (besides the joy of collection) in obtaining the rabbet planes or tongue and groove planes, e.g. #190,192, 148, etc.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I've been thinking about picking up a #48 just for doing tongue and groove stuff. One or two isn't bad but I did a shelf a while back with about 15 or 20 tongue and groove joints that a dedicated match plane would have come in handy.


----------



## donwilwol

If I had to choose, I'd rather have a set of planes for individual functions. I have 2 #45 and I never use them because its so much easier to grab one of the planes already set up for exactly what I want to do.

So its really more about personal work style.


----------



## DLK

Thanks guys. I have Stanley 55,50,46 all complete, a Craftsmen made by Sargent "45" and a Stanley 45 missing a few about half the cutters (I think).

My motivation is that having blood lust for planes and the seasonal closing of my rust hunting opportunities, I started scouring the usual online places and see that the rabbet and tongue and groove planes are affordable. I'm just wondering if I should spend my fun money on them or hide in the bushes and wait for that supper excellent garage sale/flea market/auction find. Or…. finish the cleanup of my tub of wooden moulding planes.


----------



## DLK

> If I had to choose, I d rather have a set of planes for individual functions. I have 2 #45 and I never use them because its so much easier to grab one of the planes already set up for exactly what I want to do.
> 
> So its really more about personal work style.
> 
> - Don W


I do admit to grabbing my 78 before grabbing a combination plane.


----------



## racerglen

Posted this in the rust hunt thread yesterday..





















































And..









60 bucks at a flea market, any tips on preserving the label on the cutter box ?, it's flaking off along the bottom..


----------



## Johnny7

> ... any tips on preserving the label on the cutter box ?, it s flaking off along the bottom..
> - racerglen


That's a beaut, Glenn-I would think shellac for label preservation


----------



## Tim457

Last time I asked that Glen, Todd posted an awesome link on museum level paper preservation, but I didn't understand half of it and the rest referred to archival quality adhesives without naming names or sources.

Finally found the conversation and the link:
http://lumberjocks.com/replies/on/1438851/page/216
http://www.collectorsguide.com/fa/fa010.shtml

Then fume happy linked to a supplier, but there were so many options, I didn't know where to go. I suppose I could contact them, but I haven't yet. Here's that link:
http://www.collectorsguide.com/fa/fa010.shtml

Awesome score on that 45. You suck big time.


----------



## racerglen

Hey, thanks Tim, lotta reading there.. Including my own advice I see, this one's a tad more touchy for me, I've already lost a couple of pieces, then found them again..(do NOT blow dust away while having tiny, dry pieces of paper nearby ! ) I think CA glue will soak through the paper, discoloring it, maybe my own Shelac answer ? using it both as a glue and preservative ? It does not discolor the paper

Quite happy with the score, yup, still haven't assembled it, just sitting on the bench, gleaming.. lol. But .I'm doing minor cleanup, found a couple spots that appeared to have some surface rust but as soon as I handled them, rustbegone !


----------



## racerglen

O.K., Shelac didn't work to hold down a test corner, but it did not discolor the 100 plus year old paper either. Next up a very careful use of a tiny bit of clear drying white glue with sheac over once that dries.


----------



## racerglen

Here's how it came out of the box, wee chunks sitting there..








After white glue









The upper right corner has had Shelac, think it's going to work just fine, now waiting on the glue to dry.


----------



## DLK

I may try that on the 4 boxes of cutters I have for the 55. So I eager await the end result.


----------



## racerglen

Here you go Don, my photo skills SUCK, but this is one coat of Shelac .









Despite the picture quality, I think it came out quite well, it brought up the faded color of the background on the label and has given some new life to the 100 plus year old sticker. I didn't try anything other than brushing it off before, afraid I might loose it all if I went chemical or even mild soap as it's so flakey..


----------



## Johnny7

I posted this in the "joys of rust hunting" blog, along with pics of a few other tools which came with it, but this is the main part of the haul …

The 45 looks to be a type 12 (ca 1915) and has all its parts plus (3) boxes of cutters-31 total


----------



## Mosquito

Plane looks great Johnny!


----------



## theoldfart

Am I seeing things or is the auxiliary fence mounted upside down?


----------



## Mosquito

It is Kevin


----------



## johnstoneb

You mount it that way to work on the bottom side of the board.


----------



## Johnny7

*Kevin, Mos*

good catch guys-in my quick inventory, I noticed that the cam was missing the magic bullet, but in having another look at the fence just now, I see that I'm also missing the screw that locks the micro-adjust setting.

when I tried to right the fence, I couldn't-the micro-adjust screw just jams against the casting at the end of its travel and I can't take it apart to flip it over. Not a big deal, since I have other examples.


----------



## rhybeka

Nice finds ya'll! Jealous and happy for you guys finding good deals! I'll just be very happy to get mine in use and figure out how to sharpen some of those fancy blades on my own without Dan having to do them for me


----------



## DLK

Here is an a 45 listed as a surface plane one blade I think, but you might be able to get it cheap.


----------



## Slyy

Got all the irons sharpened up and put my 45 to a task, making an edge bead for some picture frames I'm going to make. 








Now that I'm finally getting to use it, this thing is a heck of a lot of fun to use. The guy I got the blades from has a complete 55 and I'd really like to grab that from hi sometime soon as well!

Glen and Johnny, the planes are looking great, go put them to some wood!


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice Slyy. There's a reason my #45's are some of my favorite planes to use!

This was my most recent acquisition, a later type 17


----------



## Slyy

Yeah Chris, I type mine as a 7B from what I can tell. The blades though are definitely late model, the box looks just like the one you have pictured there. Moulding planes around here are pretty expensive when I find them, think 30-60 dollar range most of the time, even for simple hollows and rounds. Strikes me that the fun of using and tinkering with this and a future 55 (even if that particular plane is a bit pricey) might be worth it in the long run to do more complex mouldings.


----------



## onoitsmatt

I have an old plow plane with one cutter and one of the threaded rods is broken so the fence only extends about an inch and a half. So following this thread, I have slowly convinced myself that I need a Stanley 45. I won this auction last night: Stanley 45

I thought it might go a little on the cheap side since the auction ended in the middle of the night. I think I did pretty good on it. Looks like it may be missing the depth stop for the slicer, but otherwise looks pretty complete and has a box of cutters with it.

Am I missing anything else? Or just the depth stop?

You guys are enablers. And for that, I am grateful.


----------



## racerglen

Looks like a score Matt, I see two sets of rods but of the same length ? But it looks complete to my eyes, less the guide you meantioned. I think your seller is right on the instruction pamphlet, much newer..


----------



## Mosquito

Technically you're missing a secondary depth stop on the removable skate, and the one for beading tongue and groove boards. (And the slitter depth stop like you mentioned). It looks like a solid user either way, and for a good price even missing those parts (I rarely use the secondary depth stop, or beading stop myself).

Also has a bonus set of long rods too

Look forward to seeing it back in use


----------



## JayT

Great pick up for that price! Any time you can get a 45 with cutters for under $100, you're doing well. Honestly, I've yet to use the slitter or slitter stop, so I don't think you'll miss that one. I don't see the depth stop that goes on the skate, either. You have the main depth stop, so may never need the other, but I do find that one to be useful semi-occasionally. If you want it, check out New Hampshire Plane Parts on ebay.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

ono, you done good! And welcome to this side of the slippery slope.


----------



## onoitsmatt

Thanks for the input, everyone! I always get nervous when I think I'm getting a good deal on eBay. Hopefully will get it next week. Will post photos when it arrives.


----------



## Slyy

Matt, no doubt you're gonna have fun with it!


----------



## theoldfart

Matt, great grab at a great price. Well done.


----------



## DLK

Just stumbled across this 2013 video of making a box for a 45
by some guy called Chris Albee. Reminded me a lot of Mos, but this guy was much faster.


----------



## Mosquito

He probably had to work a lot faster because he had to spend so much more time sweeping up that canvas drop cloth  lol


----------



## dannorocks

I'm grateful I found this post/thread. I've come across a Stanley 45 and three similar Stanley rabbiting planes a year ago at an estate sale (got each of them for about $6 dollars) and have yet to put them to use much as I don't know how to set them up very well. I really want to use them and this is a great resource to learn and add some accessories I'll need, thanks!

Here's my treasure from the estate sale I went to (not all my findings are there, but theres a rust free no 45 in the picture)

<a href="http://www.imagecoast.com/">


----------



## Mosquito

Nice stuff Danno! Looks like a nice haul


----------



## Johnny7

Danno

Go to the very first post in this thread and follow the 1st link under "other"-it appears you have only the body for the 45-there are a lot of other parts

btw-that is an awesome looking 48 (or 49)


----------



## dannorocks

Thanks Mosquito/Johnny. I'm interested in getting a blade set and fence for the No. 45, I'd really like to set up to make dados with the fence and some beading would be awesome. A was walking around that sale with that armful looking for more under priced things and made out like a bandit. On a side not I made off with a late 1950's Diston backsaw that I use a lot but I'm realizing I need more than just a rip cut small carcass saw if I do more hand tool work.


----------



## DLK

You can buy blade sets on e-bay for between $50 and $100. Here is a nice one.

You can also get a fence from nhplaneparts for $8.

Also I should point out, that owning a 45 is not only a privilege its a commitment. (A commitment of endless expenditures until it is complete. LOL) Best of luck. P.S. I'm still trying to complete one of mine.


----------



## CL810

Danno, do you need this? I was going to put it on eBay but I'd rather see it go to a LJ.


----------



## Trakem2

Here is an image of the Stanley Tools logo I created in photoshop from a pic of a original label( well, actually my youngest daughter created it for dad ). I had been looking for sometime for a good pic, and finally found one on flickr, for the box I am wanting to make for my second 45. I hope this helps other jocks out there making their own boxes.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice! A while ago a couple of us managed to help Gfrazee make a couple labels for the iron boxes too
http://lumberjocks.com/grfrazee/blog/32410

though they are sweetheart era, so wouldn't necessarily match that label


----------



## Bundoman

For starters, sorry for the upside down pictures. I have been having difficulty with getting them right side up from my Ipad of recent and editting has been unsuccessful. I received this 45 as a belated birthday present this week. My wife's grandfather was a tool salesman and had a sizeable collection of new stock items when he retired. He passed on while my wife and I were dating and the estate was handled at that time. Well, my wife's uncle has had this one in the garage since then and sent it home with her for me. The box is a bit rough but I cannot tell that the plane itself has seen any use. There is just some light rust in a couple spots. The screwdriver and spare spurs are with it. I am pretty pleased to add to this one to the collection.


----------



## Mosquito

As you should be Brent! That 45 looks amazing!


----------



## donwilwol

For those interested in the Miller patented planes, there is an excellent part 1 article of a 2 part series on Charles Miller in the Gristmill this month. If you're not a memeber of midwest tool collectors association (mwtca), and your interested in the Miller patents, this article itself is worth the dues IMO.


----------



## Mosquito

I haven't gotten to read through the whole thing yet, but I agree!

Also, I'm in 2 of the pictures from our spring regional meet lol


----------



## Mosquito

Just in, fresh from the land of Canadians!



















"Type 20". Though there were several trademarks that existed for the Canadian made #45's, the type study's lump them into one type, as far as the study is concerned.


----------



## daddywoofdawg

I'm looking for a rear body stop/depth gauge,knob,irons/blades plough mostly for the #45.If it matters pre 1900.


----------



## Bundoman

That one is quite pretty as well, Mos!


----------



## CL810

Mos that is sweeeet lookin'! A sweetheart Canadian. Must resist…... .


----------



## NDakota

Land of Canadians, Grand Forks ND? LOL


----------



## Mosquito

lol I was actually born in Grand Forks, but I don't admit to that very often ;-)


----------



## NDakota

I didnt mean to offend! My oldest son went to UND so spent time there and always met a lot of Canadians shopping.Youngest son went to NDSU so that made for some interesting arguments?!


----------



## Mosquito

Haha no offense taken. We only lived in Grand Forks for about 6 months after I was born, then moved to WI, and later MN.

My wife and I also went to NDSU, which is why I don't admit to being born in Grand Forks very often lol Go Bison!


----------



## CL810

Mos, have you compared using the hollow and rounds on the 45 vs. using a 55's H & R?


----------



## Mosquito

Not yet, haven't tried on the #55 yet, but that's a good idea…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Anyone have an extra set of H&Rs for the #45 they want to get rid of? I'm buying, cheap. 

-Currently stuck on two of four pair…


----------



## theoldfart

The 55 had H&R's?


----------



## CL810

It has the blades Kevin. My set of 55 cutters came with 4 pair of blades.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm out of extra H&R bases. I'm stuck on 3 of 4 for my Record set (4 of 5 if you include the nosing base). I'm still lacking the No. 12H&R's.

The #55 didn't have 'bases' for hollows and rounds like the #45, but came with the irons since you could use 3 skates and use the fence(s) to come to a similar effect. I don't think you'd use the #55 as much like wooden hollows and rounds like you can/would the #45 with bases…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I don't think you'd use the #55 like woody H&Rs primarily because of size and weight… What's a small hollow weight, and how easily is it held and 'adjusted' vs. the #55? Seriously, not a fair fight. (I still want a #55 though.)


----------



## racerglen

I still haven't seen a 55 in the "wild" but like Smitty..I want one…It may be the DonW disease spreading..oh and a #1.. and..


----------



## theoldfart

I was just wondering. I have two of the four Record H&R's. Looking for the nose as well.


----------



## Tim457

> I don t think you d use the #55 like woody H&Rs primarily because of size and weight… What s a small hollow weight, and how easily is it held and adjusted vs. the #55? Seriously, not a fair fight. (I still want a #55 though.)
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I agree you probably wouldn't, but you can. Since it has two fences, and you can adjust the angle on them, you can run the 55 at a spring angle with training wheels. Here's one guy that uses both fences for molding:
http://bringbackthehandtools.blogspot.com


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh my. Did you see where he's created a kerfing plane of the #55? That is something to check out for the #45, I think.


----------



## Mosquito

What Tim says is what I was referencing as well, with the fences. I believe that's how the manual shows to use it for various things. I'll have to give that a try sometime, possibly this winter, if I can get the camera in the tiny temp shop.

Sweet find on the kerfing #55 Smitty… not a bad idea


----------



## Tim457

> What Tim says is what I was referencing as well, with the fences.
> - Mosquito


Right, I missed that, sorry.

Good find Smitty. That 55 kerning plane conversion is pretty cool may have to try that. Because it seemed to me like a kerfing saw would have sawdust clearing problems, I thought maybe a 1/16" plough plane blade would work faster. I've been experimenting with using a 1/16" (very thick) vintage hacksaw blade that I ground a 40 degree bevel on and made a quick laminated plane to hold it at a 45 degree bed angle. It works, but I need to learn more about making a proper escapement since the shavings are getting jammed. I think I read Tom Fidgen had tried a similar approach and didn't have luck before he settled on his kerfing plane, but I think it might just work if I fix the shaving ejection issue.

Another option I saw to help sawdust clearance was to remove every third tooth to make a much deeper gullet and give a lot more room for sawdust. Basically making it work like a crosscut logging saw.


----------



## Mosquito

No worries Tim, you articulated it better than I did 

On the kerfing conversion, I've thought about using an old wooden plough plane, and just sharpen up the skate, and file down the front to be just below the back to take a shaving…


----------



## dbray45

The 55 that I bought a couple of years ago was only used with one blade - 1/2" rabbet. All of the other blades had the factory edges and the patina showed no use. Since then, I have tried some of the profiles and found the 55 to be a serious pain. It got me looking at the blades. I took one of the complicated profiles that seriously chewed up wood and set out to put a clean sharp edge on this blade. It took a while to flatten and clean up most of the edge and tried it. The result was a real surprise and made a really clean molding in short order.

If you want to get the most of this plane, or the 45, spend the time and cleanup and sharpen the blades, you will be very glad you did. I use the DMT plates, rounds, and hollows then finish with rouge on leather with several profiles that I made. The goal is to have a mirror smooth edge close to a planer blade.

From here, I do want to get some other profiles.


----------



## JayT

> Oh my. Did you see where he s created a kerfing plane of the #55? That is something to check out for the #45, I think.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I've been meaning to make a kerfing plane. Making a blade for one of the #45's might be a better solution. Thanks for the link.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm not sure about better, but most probably easier and more likely to get done in my case lol


----------



## JayT

> I m not sure about better, but most probably easier and more likely to get done in my case lol
> 
> - Mosquito


That's the reason it's a better solution for me, too. Not that it'll necessarily work better. ;-)

It'd also be better for storage space than a dedicated kerfing plane.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I wish you much success, JayT, so I can copy your work in short order. Until then, the extent of my rewawing centers on less-than-6" stock, run through the TS edgewise and finished at the bandsaw. I'm losing stock due to saw kerf of the TS, and have to take several passes at the Alien Head planer, but at least it works.


----------



## Elm55

Trying the kerfing plane mod on your Stanley 45 certainly will not work as well as with the 55. The kerfing plane with the 55, having dual fences, is pretty much idiot proof and stays perfectly straight. While the single fence on the 45 may keep the saw blade somewhat straight, I would be concerned that it would not be dead straight.

The depth of the saw blade is important. The thinner the blade, the less you will want to have the saw blade protruding below the skate/runner. Otherwise, the saw blade might wobble.

The best hand tool to cut the blade is a carbide grit round hacksaw blade…Stanley makes them as does Harbor Freight (http://www.harborfreight.com/the-incredible-blade-carbide-cutting-rods-pack-of-2-96274.html).

The 55 also gives you the option to angle the fence which allows you to make angled cuts as in the male portion of a sliding dovetail.

Next up…I am thinking of making a mod of the right fence to make perfect shoulder cuts for tenons.

Elm
Unique Tips for Hand Tools


----------



## Tim457

> Trying the kerfing plane mod on your Stanley 45 certainly will not work as well as with the 55. The kerfing plane with the 55, having dual fences, is pretty much idiot proof and stays perfectly straight. While the single fence on the 45 may keep the saw blade somewhat straight, I would be concerned that it would not be dead straight.


That doesn't seem like more of a difficult skill to learn than sawing straight without a fence. Of course the 55 is easier.


> The depth of the saw blade is important. The thinner the blade, the less you will want to have the saw blade protruding below the skate/runner. Otherwise, the saw blade might wobble.


Since frame saw blades are fairly thick, having a thick blade for the kerfing saw seems like it wouldn't be a problem


> The best hand tool to cut the blade is a carbide grit round hacksaw blade…Stanley makes them as does Harbor Freight (http://www.harborfreight.com/the-incredible-blade-carbide-cutting-rods-pack-of-2-96274.html).


Nice tip, thanks. That link didn't work for me, but searching by the item number 96274 did.



> The 55 also gives you the option to angle the fence which allows you to make angled cuts as in the male portion of a sliding dovetail.
> 
> Next up…I am thinking of making a mod of the right fence to make perfect shoulder cuts for tenons.
> 
> Elm
> Unique Tips for Hand Tools
> 
> - Elm55


Lots of good ideas, welcome to Lumberjacks. While you're here, what do you think of the modification of cutting off every third tooth on the kerfing plane blade to make more room for the sawdust? Basically turns it into something akin to the M tooth pattern on old crosscut saws. The video where I saw the idea seems to have been made private on Youtube.


----------



## rwe2156

Pulled out a 1/8" slot cutter the other day discovered it is too short probably sharpened down.

I really don't want to pay $20 on Ebay for one.

Can anyone help me out?


----------



## Elm55

Tim,
For the type of blade for the kerfing plane, I honestly tried whatever crummy leftover blade that I had sitting around which happened to be a crosscut miter saw. I have not had issues with the saw binding from sawdust probably because there is enough of a kerf on the saw.


----------



## Mosquito

I spent the afternoon and evening cleaning out the shop (moving almost all of it out, and rearranging, the organizing and putting away). Something that needed to be done, since half the stuff in there was just put there "for now" after we moved.

Anyway, I unpacked all my #45's and decided to get a few shots of them


----------



## donwilwol

Talk about a calendar worthy photo!

A very nice collection Mos.


----------



## DLK

Looks like you could offer a 45 woodworking class. You just need to build a few more benches.

How many do you need so that can have one per cutter?

Very pretty collection. I'm a little jealous.


----------



## WillliamMSP

If you're running out of space in your shop, I know of a place in SW Minneapolis where you can store a couple. Don't worry - they'll still be read to and tucked in every night.


----------



## fuigb

I'm curious: what is the succession plan for that collection? It's a question for the OP but also applies to most on LJ, i.e. folks with big, specialized accumulations of stuff not readily recognizable let alone useful to the average guy. Really, how will it work? As the lights begin to dim one commences selling off or gifting away the equivalent of the above 'battleship row'? Or death comes swift and the surviving spouse and kids become unwilling tool brokers (and likely the first step in a Tool Gloat/Garage Sale Find thread elsewhere on the forum)?


----------



## DLK

I think you make a big enough tool chest to hold both deceased woodwork and his tools. The sell it on e-bay.


----------



## WhoMe

For me, I inherited some antique tools that I didn't have in my arsenal. And what I got created a desire to complete a series "because it was fun and I wanted to".
Since I have no kids and none in the immediate families that woodwork, my tools will most likely be sold off .Hopefully I'll be the one to do it and not burden anyone else. I just hope they go to good homes.


----------



## Mosquito

> Looks like you could offer a 45 woodworking class. You just need to build a few more benches.
> 
> How many do you need so that can have one per cutter?
> - Combo Prof


Some day I hope to get back to making the #45 videos. I've also thought about doing a class/presentation/demo for the local MNWoodworkersGuild at some point in the future too. 
Would depend on the set of cutters, but 23 max lol



> If you re running out of space in your shop, I know of a place in SW Minneapolis where you can store a couple. Don t worry - they ll still be read to and tucked in every night.
> 
> - WillliamMSP


I do have a couple of duplicate types, maybe once I get some of them cleaned up we can talk ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

As for the other question (is it a question or something else? Either way).

The selfish response would be "Not my problem if I'm dead is it".

But, if I got my collection to a point where it was worth while for anything, I wouldn't be opposed to seeking out an institute of sharing history (such as a museum or historical society).

There are also people/places that specialize in liquidating estates as well, so I don't imagine it would be 'difficult' to off load them. At least they're not broken down cars, non-working appliances, or any other random junk you might find scattered across a yard.

I don't see it any differently than anything else. Pictures, stamps, baseball cards, cars, watches, spoons, buttons, antiques in general. Anything really. Anything someone collects is going to fall into the category. If we live our whole lives not enjoying what we enjoy, then what's the point?


----------



## racerglen

Hear, Hear ! Well put Mos, now to convince SWMBO again.. ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

lol thanks Glen. We each get our own set amount of money every month to do with what we please. As long as I only use that, she doesn't really care  She doesn't "get it", but she understands


----------



## CL810

Mos, I hope I live long enough to see the Hoarders episode when they do an intervention at your house. ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

As long as it's organized it's not hoarding


----------



## Tim457

> I m curious: what is the succession plan for that collection? It s a question for the OP but also applies to most on LJ, i.e. folks with big, specialized accumulations of stuff not readily recognizable let alone useful to the average guy. Really, how will it work? As the lights begin to dim one commences selling off or gifting away the equivalent of the above battleship row ? Or death comes swift and the surviving spouse and kids become unwilling tool brokers (and likely the first step in a Tool Gloat/Garage Sale Find thread elsewhere on the forum)?
> 
> - fuigb


There was an article with a very good rundown of the various options for that situation and I think it was in the MWTCA Gristmill publication. I can't recall much more about it, but maybe someone can figure out when it came out.

Mos, you really have quite the 45 collection now.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> As for the other question (is it a question or something else? Either way).
> 
> - Mosquito


Exactly.


----------



## Fretless_llama

Hi to everyone here. I stumbled across this thread, and decided to join in the conversation. I did not come empty handed. I bought this plane about 2.5 years ago, and it remains one of my favorites. I have some newer combo planes, but can't find the pics right now. I will be sure to post those sometime soon.


----------



## Mosquito

looks like a winner to me!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice, fretless. Looks complete, box and screwdriver too!


----------



## mramseyISU

> As long as it s organized it s not hoarding
> 
> - Mosquito


I though it wasn't hoarding if the stuff is cool.


----------



## Mosquito

I'll go with that too lol


----------



## Bundoman

Me likey these lines of thinking! Now..how do I get cool and organized??


----------



## Mosquito

Smitty brought to my attention this link, with a lot of information on the progression of the Hollow & Round bases for the #45 (Also added to the 'references' section on the original post on this thread, or at this link:
Hollows & Rounds Evolution


----------



## Tim457

Very interesting, Mos. I'm somewhat surprised that his third version didn't make it into production along side the 45. It's not like Stanley was afraid of selling multiple planes that did similar functions.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Used a 12R to make trim! First blow has been struck.


----------



## Mosquito

Awesome! Nice work Smitty! So… how was it?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It worked very well, actually. Not that I chose a complex profile or anything, but for a baby step it was one in the right direction.


----------



## DanKrager

Nice documentation, Smitty. Very rewarding, isn't it?
DanK


----------



## Mosquito

Got my Type 1 photographed tonight… after a little cleaning on the fence and skate, it's got less japanning than it looked like it did before… Oh well


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Very nice!


----------



## DLK

I think you guys are trying to turn me into a collector. Very nice Mos and the pictures at the tool swap were outstanding.


----------



## Mosquito

We're not trying to, just making it easier 

I'm planning on putting a blog post together this week with all the pictures I got at the tool meet later this week, probably


----------



## DLK

> We re not trying to, just making it easier
> 
> I m planning on putting a blog post together this week with all the pictures I got at the tool meet later this week, probably
> 
> - Mosquito


Well I have made my first e-bay bid on a tool just because it was beautiful and not because I needed it. So you guys are winning.

Looking forward to the blog.


----------



## Tim457

Very nice pictures Mos. Where did you pick that one up at?


----------



## DLK

In case you need another: http://northernwi.craigslist.org/atq/5411591526.html

Stanley No. 45 plane, pat. 3-11-1884 and 1-22-1895, as pictured.
Good condition, blade dull.

I'd question the good condition.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Tim, that was an e-bay score.

Don, It's hard to tell the condition with such poor pictures…


----------



## DLK

Well the front knob is missing for example. I also "blade dull" was funny as if there only ever was one blade. Its an hour drive closer to you than to me


----------



## Mosquito

Got my Type 2 all pictured up now too


----------



## Pimzedd

Mos, what do you do to shine up the brass? Both are beautiful.


----------



## Mosquito

Just some Brasso, a toothbrush, and some cotton cloth. I don't go too crazy, as I'm not trying to get them reflective or anything, just cleaned up. They also probably look brighter because I've got them under my photo lights too


----------



## Mosquito

Types 15, 17, and 20 have also been added to the list of photographed 

T15









T17









T20 (of the 1922-1938 timeframe)


----------



## mramseyISU

Mos where are you doing your research for the type study? I've looked through your links on the original post and I'm just too dense to find what mine is. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what it is because I bought it to use not just to look at but it's kind of cool to know how old the thing is. Based on your pictures above mine's probably a type 17ish since it shares the same logo.


----------



## Mosquito

Dave Heckle has a book on the Stanley #45, that's largely a type study, which is what I use for a more detailed reference. Otherwise you can get a rough range here: http://tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/stanley/comb-planes/45types/45types.htm

It's an abbreviated version of Dave's book http://www.ebay.com/itm/STANLEY-45-PLANE-BOOK-D-Heckel-All-you-need-know-/262170483778?hash=item3d0a941c42:m:m9G764xrWF9qMWtKOa2_Q-Q


----------



## mramseyISU

Thanks Mos. I figured mine was a later one since it has the rectangular Stanley logo on the skate. Like I said, it doesn't really matter it's just kind of cool to know how old it is. I ordered the reprint of the manual from Lee Valley this weekend to try and get my order up to $40 to take advantage of the free shipping they've got going on. I figure I've spent $7 on dumber stuff before.


----------



## grfrazee

@Mos, I love the brass with the patina-ed iron. Just looks wonderfully aged and substantial.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks, I try to strike a balance between cleaned up and "like new", because it's got character, which I don't mind. Rust, however, I do mind…


----------



## Mosquito

Mmmmm, Groovy


----------



## theoldfart

I assume you you set up four or five 45's and take one pass with each  , otherwise you might be called a collector!


----------



## Mosquito

Sadly no, I used the same plane to do both the rabbets and the groove on all 4 pieces 

My cabinet says I'm not a collector, I'm a …. historian? Yeah, I'll go with that.









(note: there's 1 #55 hiding in there)


----------



## Mosquito

I'm gonna have to build that second cabinet soon…

Old one is plumb full, and I've now got 4 that don't fit…


----------



## JayT

I can help you out Mos, I only have two 45's and one 46, so still have room for some more. Feel free to send those extras my way. Once you get the second cabinet built, I'll send those right back. Shouldn't take the USPS more than twenty years or so delivery time. ;-)

BTW, do you have original cutters for your 46 or did you have to get them from St James Bay? If from St James, how long was the wait. I only have one cutter for mine and need to get a set.


----------



## bandit571

Just posting to get caught up, as I have one of the Roxton Pond 45s..









However…..the bolt for the main stock's spur was rusted too badly, Easy-out finally got it out, now need the next size up for a new bolt, or…..

This was missing the slitter's depth stop, and the two match cutters, and the screwdrivers. Cost? Just a trip to the magnolia Jamboree…..


----------



## Mosquito

> BTW, do you have original cutters for your 46 or did you have to get them from St James Bay? If from St James, how long was the wait. I only have one cutter for mine and need to get a set.
> 
> - JayT


I've got 2 #45s as well… I've also got number 3, 4, 5, 6… lol I'm not sure on the actual count anymore to be honest, but I have types 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, and 20. There are a few duplicates, and a few that aren't in the greatest shape but will probably be users or sold to help fund future purchases. I've got two Type 20's (Canadian) that are both in really good shape. "Accidently" bought the second one, hoping it was a different type (couldn't read the Canada, could only make out the SW part of the logo in the pictures).

Anyway, #46 irons… I had a couple (3) original irons, but I sold those to people that needed them, and I bought a set from St James. I bought mine on their eBay store, to make sure that they actually had them to send so they were shipped to me in a couple days. I got them to let me exchanged the first set, as they were so far out from being ground square that for $110 I didn't like it. The second set was much better, but definitely still needed some work to get them sharp (which is why some still aren't yet). Honestly, I don't know that there is much of a difference in price or not, as I haven't been looking in a while. I know Smitty got a full set or almost full set, of #46 irons when we split a $100 set of irons. He took the #46 irons and I kept the #45 irons and we split it down the middle. Not sure how much a stand alone set for #46 would cost, but I would think under $100


----------



## Bundoman

For reference, I bought my original set of 46 irons last year from the Bay and they set me back 90 bucks plus shipping.


----------



## bandit571

Will try to get out and find a bolt for the spur. Will need to chase the threads to the next size larger. As soon as I figure it out. I might be able to find a SS one that may be close.

Depth stop for the slitter? hard to find? Can one be made in a normal shop? What steel to use? Thickness?


----------



## bandit571

Ok, trying to mill a bead with one of these. Right side seems to want to step down and outward. I'm getting "forced" towards the outside. Iron is cutting differently on each side, one cuts easy, the other wants to hog things out. Skates are in line with the outside edges of the cutter. Plane is also "sticky" in the cut.

Tried a light cut, maybe too light, as right at the start, plane is not cutting at all, then BOOM, thick curls come up, and then jamb the mouth. having to stop after each cut, and clear it out.

Will try again later…


----------



## Tim457

I think that's kind of the nature of cutting a bead with a 45. Towards the tip on the inside of the bead it's making more and more of a scraping cut on the sides as you go down. Same as the part cutting the outside of the bead. Two of the three parts making a scraping cut are pushing the plane outward. The left hand should be holding pressure towards the piece, not pushing forward at all and the right hand should be pushing forward, not in at all.


----------



## bandit571

I gave it a second try. cutter is a #25. Tried to keep pressure against the side, AND still push it along….results looked a bit better. Will take a bit of practizing to get the hang of it..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Bandit - wax the skate and main body. You'll be amazed.


----------



## Mosquito

^ and fence


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, listen to the wise ones. They are knowledgable. Oh and what they say works.  Took me a while and some cuss words to figure the wax thing out.

Hey wait a minute Smitty, your supposed to be on vacation! Dump the 'pooter and drink.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Can't pass up an opportunity to tell Bandit to wax his skate…

That is all.


----------



## bandit571

Since THAT skate has the SW markings on it…..


----------



## WillliamMSP

Back in biz with a combo plane after my boneheaded move resulting in a broken Fulton last year (this one is a Craftsman, but still a re-labeled Sargent 1080). Got this for a little over $50 shipped and I still have the full set of cutters, rods and whatnot from the broken plane. Needs a little cleaning, particularly the threads for all of the adjustments, but it's looking decent overall.


----------



## Mosquito

Awesome Bill. I've been tempted to pick up a Sargent or derivative recently, just for fun, but haven't found the right deal yet


----------



## WillliamMSP

I'm at a distinct advantage because they get no love on the 'bay without cutters. With cutters and you're back to No 45 territory.

Q: Any suggestions for light cleaning of the (I assume) nickel plating? It's not that bad, but there are a couple areas/corners that could use a touch-up. Will a brass brush scratch up/remove the plating?


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, which is why I haven't found "the right deal" yet lol

Re: Brass brush, it shouldn't remove plating that's firmly attached, but will remove loose plating. I've used a brass wheel before (in a dremel) and it worked fine. I've used naval jelly applied with an old tooth brush on #45s for rust removal, as it's pretty easy to keep it off the wood handle. Good for spot removal, just apply where you need to


----------



## WillliamMSP

Brass brush worked nicely and I'm pretty happy with how this cleaned up (well, except for the rods - there were a couple spots that were pretty rough, so I just replaced them with the rods from the broken Fulton). Still need to sharpen the nickers (circular type), and I'm not thrilled that I'll have to remove the secondary skate to access the screws to rotate the cutting edge in and out… but I do like that they're pretty substantial compared to the cross-type cutters and that they shouldn't need to be replaced any time soon.


----------



## Mosquito

Looks good from this end


----------



## donwilwol

That's a pretty good deal William. The Sargent comb planes have been commanding pretty good money lately. You did well.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Cool. I was trying to be patient. I remember missing out on one that went for about 30 bucks shipped a few months back, so I tried to bide my time.

Took it out to the garage and gave it a run-though plowing a 1/2" dado. Worked like a charm, but only after I waxed the skates and fence - it's funny no one has ever suggested that.


----------



## Mosquito

lol I have definitely said to wax the skate and fence before


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Me too.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Lol.

Oh hey, stupid question: looking through my cutters, I have a few that are pronged like they'd cut tongues, but one of the prongs has a cove cutout. What are these used for?


----------



## Mosquito

Window Sash


----------



## donwilwol

William if you don't have the manual, I have it posted here, http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/02/18/sargent-combination-planes-nos-1080-and-1085-description-and-directions-for-use/


----------



## DLK

Does anyone have the British Howkins patented combination wood plane and show us how it works. I'm just a little curious.


----------



## rhybeka

Sweet finds, ya'll! I'm hoping to finally get to building my plane till here shortly. have to work out the best way to store the 45 yet though!


----------



## bandit571

Build a box for it?









I might have a spare box…









You can use as a pattern…..


----------



## WillliamMSP

Thanks for manual Don - I've DLed a copy to look over and reference.


----------



## DLK

What are the dimension of the square box? 
I may have to build 4 or 5. (For Stanley 45,46,50,55, Craftsman 3728 made by Sargent.)


----------



## bandit571

Across the front…12.5" 
Front to back…..7.5" 
Height…...5.25"

At least on my two boxes….









YMMV


----------



## DLK

Thanks. I'd liked to (eventually) make identical depth and height boxes. So that they can all fit in a row on the same shelf. Front length could vary. Your dimensions will give me a place to start.


----------



## rhybeka

Soooo…what you're saying is my 45 should be stored separately from the other planes in my till? I don't have a till like yours Bandit - yet 

@Bandit are those ID or OD? (inside dimensions or outside dimensions)


----------



## Mosquito

45s should have their own till all together… At least that's how I roll


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

One dimension is more obvious than the others: box has to accommodate the width of the cutter box(es). Then it's height of cutter box, and length of plane. Other questions include: Do you want to be able to store it with rods attached? Long rods too? The search for "smallest practical size" likely begins and ends with one of Mos' OEM boxes (see pic above).

I have the #45 and #46 combined in a single drawer, under the bench. They're safe from harm, but it's somewhat involved to retrieve one or the other prior to use. It's a trade-off. The #50 has a user-made box that came with it when I bought it via the 'bay.


----------



## bandit571

Beka: those were from the outside of the box. Box was made with 3/8" thick boards.

Just arrived today's mail….the depth stop for the slitter ( now on the plane) and the 3/16" match cutter….forgot to get a depth stop for it…..oh well. I can match down to a scribed line…..


----------



## DanKrager

Today I applied some knowledge that was gained some time ago (can't remember where….perhaps here). Working on a piano keyboard wall shelf with corbels, and on part of the shelf assembly I wanted fingernail profile on the molding. So out comes the 45, spiffy and sharp, and the curly grain is going every which way. The first pass tore grain deeply even though the blade was set to get a wisp. Reverse direction same place, same thing. What to do? Got out the mineral oil and soaked the edge well. Problem solved! What a difference. It was easy to get nice shaving, cut fast and clean like a plane should! 








I had the entire keyboard for about 18 years, then in a fit of shop cleaning, kept the "ivories" (I think they're actually old celluloid plastic but they have a grain….) and dumped the black keys So I had to make some more.









DanK


----------



## DLK

Alright Smitty can you have Mos give me the (inside) dimensions of an OEM box?


----------



## Mosquito

Which box? I've got 4 different ones I think

Dan, good to know that trick works. I've heard of it but have never tried it myself. May have to sometime, if the need arises. Thanks for letting us know


----------



## DLK

I guess all of them. But, I have a good enough idea about how i'll do it. Just need to find the time.


----------



## Mosquito

That'll probably have to wait until next week, as I'll be out of town starting tomorrow


----------



## bandit571

Seems I did a blog about building mine awhile back….

Do you need sizes? The 45 I have stored the cutters in-between slats, with a strip on cardboard to hold them. You simply plucked up the cutter you needed. Wasn't any loose boxes for cutters.


----------



## DLK

Well for the 55 and 50 and 46 I have all the original cutter boxes. The 45 is still incomplete. The Craftsman 3728 (= Sargent 1080) cutters game in a canvas roll (which I have). So I will likely just corral the original cutter boxes in the to be built bigger box. Make a box for the 45 cutters and keep the the 3728 cutters in the canvas roll. But this is a down the road project anyway. I just dream and plan a head. Projects in order are (1) fix house front door. (2) finish new lathe stand. (3) put stuff away in new lathe stand drawers … and cleanup shop. (4) do one or 2 of wife's projects. (5) finish bathrooms remodel before guest arrives. (6) at least start a plane till. (8) more wife projects. (9) graduate Ph.D. student and make him a gift, (10) just maybe make combination plane boxes. Mix in rust hunting, restoration and spending way too much time on the internet. Maybe just maybe add sleeping, eating, walking the dog, mowing the lawn, opening the pool, more wife projects, and going fishing. That should take care of July. But I'm not wingeing … just lots to do and thankful to be able to do them. Maybe I need to write down a schedule and be efficient … naw.


----------



## rhybeka

> 45s should have their own till all together… At least that s how I roll
> 
> - Mosquito


LOL I understand that for your situation, Mos, but I only have one so far  I was hoping to be able to put it in my plane til so it could 'travel' if necessary


----------



## DLK

LOL Well then you will meet Mos's criteria.


----------



## bandit571

Beka: make one like mine?


----------



## DanKrager

Today the 46 went to work cutting a 1/2×3/8" dado. I was a little concerned about how it would behave at the knot (far end) and almost did it on the table saw because of that. But I'm glad I persisted because I learned that with a very sharp blade, knots are no problem. In fact, the plane said "What knot?". It went right through it without hesitation and no noticeable increase in resistance. I was amazed! The whole process from start of setup to finished dado (no touch up required) took 17 minutes. Long curly spills…









DanK


----------



## DLK

This e-bay advertisement


STANLEY No 45~SWEETHEART COMB. PLOW PLANE, BOX & INSTRUCTION NO RESERVE

just makes me angry. The description reads:

Here is a vintage Stanley #45 plane. I believe they call this the sweetheart plane. This plane is used and has some light wear but no rust and looks to be in near excellent condition. Comes with all you see in the pics including the original instructions and box which has seen better days. *Cutters are in another auction* and I can save you shipping if you win both., thanks.

It just seems immoral to split up "the parent" from "its children".


----------



## WillliamMSP

> It just seems immoral to split up "the parent" from "its children".
> 
> - Combo Prof


That's messed up. I really hope that it comes back to bite them in the ass (namely that they end up getting less money for more work).

It does look like it's in nice shape, though…


----------



## DanKrager

More work for the 45. 









Sweat and hubris prepared some stock for glue up.









DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Since it causes such a stir, I'll be careful about posting too much…  
The 45 with a "new" Record #6 hollow setup. Had to do the concave part of the molding with a router. The hand plane beat me this time, but the hollow cutter did a fine job, easy and crisp.









This is what I'm headed towards. This is a shelf laying on it's back (the wall) while the shelf part is drying in the finishing area. Corbels are next. 









DanK


----------



## bandit571

Recent inventory of that Roxton Pond Stanley 45

Straight cutters= 12
bead cutters= 7
Sash cutter=1
1/4" match cutter=1…...needs a depth stop, since the one in the sash cutter is too wide. 
Slitter ( #8)
Depth stop for slitter, 2 long, and 2 short rods, and the cam.

Looking for a depth stop for the 1/4" match cutter. Am watching a 3/16" match cutter. Apparently, the 3/16" depth stop will not fit the 1/4" one, either.

Sooo, off to nhplaneparts.com to see IF Eric has a depth stop…..don't need the cutter, may have to buy one, anyway.

Some of the cutters will need a spruceing up, most are quite sharp. Need to set up a guide to use on my stones, at whatever that angle is Stanley used. Heard several different figures…....I do know that 35 degrees doesn't work.


----------



## theoldfart

Hey Dan, that's my Record #6 H&R! Nice work by the way.


----------



## Mosquito

Awesome Dan!


----------



## bandit571

Ok, I think I found the last two parts I need for the 45…..

For some reason, the depth stop on the sash cutter will not fit the 1/4" match cutter…...slots are way different in width. Match cutter is a full 1/4" wide, so why is the sash cutter's center so much wider?

Photos later today, IF you want them. IF I can sell an item on the bay Monday, I can get those last parts I need, I hope. Looked up the slitter page….found out I had it and the depth stop on backwards…..easy fix.


----------



## DLK

What are you selling on e-bay. Maybe we could help?


----------



## rhybeka

Which parts are left that you need, Bandit?? !


----------



## DanKrager

I was out sneaking into your shop while Cl810 was sneaking into mine… LOL

Thanks Mos. That cherry is locally grown and as gorgeous as it gets! No stain, clear lacquer.

DanK


----------



## bandit571

> What are you selling on e-bay. Maybe we could help?
> 
> - Combo Prof


Stanley 150 mitrebox with a saw…..a couple block planes and a jack plane…..already have bids on the 150, just waiting til the end of the auction tomorrow.


----------



## bandit571

> Which parts are left that you need, Bandit?? !
> 
> - rhybeka


 Have both parts on my watch list….when the auction ends Monday, I should have enough to put them both in the cart and buy it now…..


----------



## DLK

> What are you selling on e-bay. Maybe we could help?
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> Stanley 150 mitrebox with a saw…..a couple block planes and a jack plane…..already have bids on the 150, just waiting til the end of the auction tomorrow.
> 
> - bandit571


I could buy a Low-angle MF block a 57 preferred.


----------



## bandit571

> What are you selling on e-bay. Maybe we could help?
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> Stanley 150 mitrebox with a saw…..a couple block planes and a jack plane…..already have bids on the 150, just waiting til the end of the auction tomorrow.
> 
> - bandit571
> 
> I could buy a Low-angle MF block a 57 preferred.
> 
> - Combo Prof


The only one I have is either the M-F 56B, or the Cordovan 60-1/2…...well, there is a M-F 1455 with original box…..

Ok, the easy-out had enlarged the hole for the spur's bolt a bit…...new bolt just fell out. tapped the hole for a slightly larger bolt. Had to enlarge the hole through the spur, too. A bunch of work on the grinder to get a new bolt's head down to where it would fit the spur…and cut a new slot for a screwdriver with the hacksaw. Dremel cut-off wheel to cut the new bolt to the proper length. Whew….then polished things up. looks like new, now.

One item I am selling over on the bay, should get enough to buy the two parts I need.

may have the wrong sash cutter? The one I have is stamped as a #1. The depth stop will NOT fit the 1/4" match cutter. Hoping the one I'm buying does fit the #5 , 1/4" match cutter…


----------



## bandit571

Sash cutter is correct.

Have a depth stop #5 on the way, and the 3/16" match cutter with it's own depth stop.

Just need to figure out HOW they packed one of these up at Roxton Pond…....the skate is also stamped with a ( steady there,Smitty) "SW" inside a heart. Seems they didn't use those tidy little, green labeled boxes…..

That 3/16" match cutter will bring the set up to 23 cutters. I have also given the slitter a few swipes on the stones….it had a lot of high and low spots. Places would polish right up, others never did.


----------



## Mosquito

That model of Canadian #45, I believe, would have had a wooden cutter box with a cardboard sleeve.










^ That isn't a picture of my Type 20, but it's the same. I can get a picture of the one I have once I get home from work.


----------



## bandit571

This is what I brought home from the Magnolia Jamboree..









There WAS a strip of cardboard in the front slot, but not the other. Thin board inlet to the box's sides. Box I made to replace the OEM box, also used the same thin boards. Kind of a PITA to pick one cutter out, without the rest flopping over.

Might add a very thin strip of cardboard into the slots, to take up any slack. Make it more of a friction fit?


----------



## Mosquito

Do you still have the original box, and/or more pictures of it? I've not yet gotten one of the hinged wooden boxes, so I'm not sure if the cutters were actually held by the plane box or if they came in their own box like most other #45s


----------



## bandit571

Still have the box, complete with Roxton Pond,QUE , Canada labels….right now, it has most of my dremel stuff stashed inside…I CAN go and take a few pictures. Give me a bit…..


----------



## bandit571

OK, The Roxton Pond box









Open this brass latch..









Be careful, though, as the great USPS had almost destroyed the lid









Played hell with the finger jointed corners, too..









Ok, on to the insides..









Have no idea what these two holes were for. There is an angled brace on the "floor" of the box..









Other end WAS glued to the uprights back there..









This is where all the cutters were. Two thin panels sit in narrow dados. There is also a plain piece of well worn cardboard, with rusty stains from where the irons sat.

Have tried to duplicate all of this, save the post office damage, in a new box. I think I have the dividers a bit too tall, and might just trim mine lower, to match the OEM ones.


----------



## Mosquito

Awesome, thanks Bandit. It sure does look like that's where they must have shipped the irons. I'll see what I can dig up once I get home


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Holes fit rods, I bet.


----------



## bandit571

Holes are too small for the rods. I just went back down and checked that out. Might have been a place to stash the slitter's thumbscrew, and even stick the cam's bolt in one. Cam would have to stand up. instead of laying down.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, most unfortunate…


----------



## Mosquito

The best I can tell, the cutters would have just come like that in the box, with nothing else to hold them…

Also, I just learned (read for the first time), that the Canadian planes were actually all made in New Britain the same as everything else, per Mr Heckel's book


----------



## bandit571

Soooo, even though mine is marked as made in Canada?


----------



## Mosquito

Apparently. Per the book:

"NOTE: The Canadian trademark planes were manufactured in New Britain, Conn. U.S.A. The only MADE IN CANADA markings were on the outer box label, the main body skate, the cutter box label, the spur envelope, and the screwdriver. The instruction book is not marked MADE IN CANADA. It is assumed that the Canadian markings were applied to give the planes more sales appeal to the nationalistic Canadian woodworker"


----------



## bandit571

Soo, what was actually made at their Roxton Pond factory?


----------



## bandit571

Ok, updated box…the "new" one. Dug out the too tall dividers and cut them down to about what the OEM ones were. 









Have about three more cutters on the way, might have just enough room









I am keeping the smallest of the straight cutters on the floor of the box, don't want it getting lost in there. Same with the #8 slitter. The good news is that the lid will close..


----------



## bandit571

While not disputing Heckels work, I went to the Roxton Pond site. Seems they stopped making wooden planes after Stanley bought the factory, and wound up making 80% of all "Made in Canada" planes for stanley, until the plant was closed down. All that remains of the factory is a plaque from 1974 or so…


----------



## Mosquito

A page I came across said 80% of Made in Canada tools not planes, so who knows


----------



## bandit571

Ok. The 3/16" match cutter with depth stop is now in the box. I had to rework the depth stop to fit the 1/4" match cutter's slot. Depth stop looked like it was just a rough casting, onlt the threaded hole for the bolt was done.

There is now a 5/8" and a 3/4" beading cutter on the way to my mail box. Trying to decide what else to "pick" out… maybe a reeding cutter? 2-3 reeds?


----------



## donwilwol

For those of you who are into the Stanley combo plane, you can pick this book up for a few bucks used. It worth it.










..


----------



## Mosquito

Yes, that is a nice one to have


----------



## donwilwol

Mine just Arrived. About $8 with shipping.


----------



## bandit571

Cutters #28 and #29 have just arrived. HUGE. At this rate, I may have to add a third stowage slot….

#28 makes a 5/8" bead, the #29 makes a 3/4" wide bead. Maybe use these on the edge of a board?


----------



## WillliamMSP

St Roy showed some large diameter beading on timber framing, too.


----------



## bandit571

Ok, played around with this plane tonight…yep, got bored. Set it up for a 3/16" match plane. wanted to try out the newly arrived cutter. 









May have set the cutter a hair deep, had to keep clearing out the shavings..









Still, it did a decent enough job..









Then i removed the sliding skate, and the match cutter, installed the 3/16" plough cutter..









Need a better way to set up for center…









Was a hair off. Got to thinking…..I use a T&G joint to make corners…









Ploughed a groove like you would for a drawer bottom, getting better at lay out ..









Both boards did have a slight cup to them. I think I might like this plane…..


----------



## Tim457

Does seem like a good plane for a retired guy that enjoys tinkering.

There must be a trick to setting it up perfectly for center. A jig or registering off something. Looks like you got pretty close for a board that wasn't S4S.


----------



## Mosquito

Doesn't need to be perfectly centered, just has to be perfectly matched


----------



## DanKrager

+1^. Don't change the fence setting when you change cutters and you should be real close. Just make sure to register the fence on the same side of the joint for both pieces.

Lookin' good Bandit.

DanK


----------



## bandit571

Ok, part two of my playing around. With that groove, the pine scrap can take the place of a drawer's side. I usually clip the corners, easier to slide a drawer into the case. Here, it helps prevent any blow out from the dado









Grabbed a 1/2" cutter. Set up both spurs, (had to sharpen one) and the fence , and the depth stops









Might not have needed both stops…both spurs were set up to score the wood









And the fence was set about…1/4" in from the end….









Drag the plane backwards a few times, and then start cutting a dado









Sooo, next time I need a few drawers built, I can set up and do a stack of sides at a time. I just leave the plane alone, and just switch to the next side's dado.

Maybe next time in the shop…...might try the plane as a fillister? I already have the Stanley/Wards #78. May give the 45 a shot at this as well?


----------



## rhybeka

just hopping through 

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/the-stanley-rule-and-level-company-s-combination-planes.aspx

Highland WW has it for $10


----------



## DLK

Poking around on e-bay when I should just get out of bed and into the shop when I saw these weird (to me) cutters.










What combination plane do they fit?


----------



## Mosquito

Mmmm 45 curly therapy










Not sure what those irons would have been from Don. I can't remember which, but I thought there were irons that holes instead of slots but don't recall whose they were. Maybe someone had holes and wanted slots so they filed their own?


----------



## DLK

Thanks, it just bugs me, I swear I have seen it before, but I cannot remember. Nice shavinds. I made purple ones last night until the humidity killed me.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ditto on recalling holes in cutters before, but no more detail.


----------



## DLK

Mmmm 50 beading therapy










See my card scraper project


----------



## bandit571

Need to drag mine out later, and set it up for grooves to house a bottom and a top for a box. We'll see how it works in Cherry..


----------



## bandit571

Test drive, getting set up for the grooves in the box's bottom..









Need to groove these for a bottom panel…









We'll see how this goes…


----------



## Mosquito

A little evening #45 and #55 action tonight


----------



## bandit571

Well, it didn't do too badly in Cherry…









Had the fence move on me..once…









Had to keep my eye on it right at the start, as some of these were against the grain, got all four sides done..









Next will be some narrow stuff..









Then whether to use the 45 or the 78 to make a few rebates in the lid and bottom panels…..


----------



## DLK

I remember a post providing labels for the 45 that I see glued to Bandits box in the background. Does someone have a link to it? Are there similar labels for the 55, 50, 71, and 71 1/2. I'm closing in on a box for the 71 1/2.

I did find Plane Restorations #1: Stanley No. 45 Boxes Reproduction Graphics which has 45 and 55 cutter box labels. But the link he provides no longer work. Can someone send me at least those images?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I used the link; it worked when logged in to Google+ account; did you try that?


----------



## DLK

> I used the link; it worked when logged in to Google+ account; did you try that?
> 
> - SmittyCabinetshop


 Never tried Google+ . I may have used Goole plus a long time ago. From Chrome I get

Google Error 404 NOT_FOUND Unable to process request.

Will try Google+

I can't get google+ to work either.

With Google+ I can get to something call the Lumber jocks emagazine but no further.

I don't know how I did it but I managed to get a download of the cutter box labels for the 45.


----------



## bandit571

Currently, there are two #5 cutters for my #45…..one is wider, and thicker









Could not get this one to seat properly. Would not go all the way into the groove.

Both were too wide for the board I was going to work on, so a 3/16" was used instead









I found out a 45 does not like knots, too..









But, I can bury the bad spots…









Hoping when I do the cherry panel, later, it goes a bit better. Pine will do for a bottom..









This will do for the day….time to put the plane back in the box…









Until it is needed again.


----------



## Mosquito

Endgrain molding in oak with a #55? Woof. Little sacrificial pine, and it's all good.










Long grain was a little easier


----------



## Tim457

Nice work there Mos. Impressed you got the end grain to work.


----------



## Mosquito

Wasn't too bad, sharp iron, some wax, sacrificial pine board, and light passes made it tolerable. Not something I would want to do every day, mind you.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm green over that #55, Mos. Even more so on the work you're able to produce on end grain. Well done!

One of those fabulous planes hasn't landed here, so in the meantime I have to entertain myself with the #45. The Stanley H&R bottoms for it actually work!


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, did you chamfer first or just have at it?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Right at it. Full width shaving means "you're done!"


----------



## Mosquito

I find myself looking for an excuse to use the #55 on things lol I just haven't used it much yet.

I've had good luck with the H&R bases for the #45, but it's a little more awkward than wooden molding planes, as far as having a bunch of stuff hanging off the plane, but easier to get dialed in than a wooden plane


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

#10 round. I really like these aux bottoms!


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Looks awesome Smitty. Now that you guys got me into this 45 nerd crew I want the rounds as well but they are far too spendy for my blood. I'll end up with wood rounds I'm sure.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I was very, very patient in finding my set at not-too-much $. You can find them, takes time.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I'll just have you use your rounds and hollows to make me a set of woody rounds and hollows.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sounds like a fine plan!


----------



## Mosquito

I pieced mine together "eventually" myself. Still waiting for No. 12H&R's, but in time. I also went for Record bases rather than Stanley's too. The first set I got were Records, so I ran with it. They've ended up being cheaper than that Stanley ones, usually.


----------



## theoldfart

Moss, stay away from my Records, they're my Records I tell ya, my Records!

Yea, I'm still chasing #6 and # 12 H & R's

Harumph


----------



## Mosquito

Those 12's seem hard to come by…


----------



## theoldfart

Yup


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I shan't say a word.


----------



## Mosquito

lol I've seen more Stanley 12 H&R bases than I have Records. So far I've only seen 2 pairs of #12's for Records


----------



## Mosquito

Here's a No. 6H for you Kevin 

http://www.jimbodetools.com/RECORD-Special-Base-for-No-405-Multi-Plane-NO-6-Hollow-WITH-CUTTER-Mint-in-Original-Wrapper-Fits-STANLEY-No-45-Combination-Plane-p44797.html


----------



## bandit571

Maybe tomorrow…









Hoping this guy is set up again…..last year there was a #71….a # 45, and a #48…....I didn't have the cash LAST YEAR…...this year might be a bit different….









We'll see….


----------



## Tim457

> Here s a No. 6H for you Kevin
> 
> http://www.jimbodetools.com/RECORD-Special-Base-for-No-405-Multi-Plane-NO-6-Hollow-WITH-CUTTER-Mint-in-Original-Wrapper-Fits-STANLEY-No-45-Combination-Plane-p44797.html
> 
> - Mosquito


I was expecting that to be much more expensive. $45 is a lot for one, but mint in wrapper with cutter doesn't seem too bad.


----------



## Mosquito

it's similarly priced to many Stanleys I find on eBay. Given the source, though, I didn't think it was too bad either


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, going price on the interwebz seems to be about $90 for a pair of H&R's.

Moss, i'd prefer to wait for a pair rather than just one and I don't need shiny!


----------



## Mosquito

same here lol Or if I happen across a screamin' deal on a set of Stanley's, I'd have a couple Records for you lol


----------



## theoldfart

Let me know, I'd be more than interested!


----------



## DLK

Today I was trying to plow 6 parallel 1/4 " flutes (cuter number 32.) 1/2" apart. I was not completely or always successful. Difficulties I have 

*Meandering to the left. *I think I can fix this. Now that I have re-watched Mos's plowing a groove video; 
*Getting the near/back end cut.* I seem to catch the back end and of the board and then take too deep a shave,
resulting in tearing or chipping out the left side of the flute. Any tips to fix this problem?
*Adjusting the cutter depth.* In order to use the cutter adjusting wheel to move the cutter. I first loosen the cutter bolt wing nut, then I tap the wing nut with a brass hammer. I don't think I should have to tap it with a hammer. What can I do to fix this?

Center sliding skate is removed.

Frustrated I'm going to bed.


----------



## bandit571

Wing nut should have a collar on it. I looosen mine until it bares against the collar, this forces the moving part to actually…move. Wing nut has a groove where this collar should sit. Depending on what model you have.


----------



## BurlyBob

These are photos of a 45 I picked up today for $125. It may not have been the best deal out there but I'm quite satisfied. If anyone could date it for me I'd appreciate that. It looks like I need to get a replacement piece of rosewood for the fence.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice pick-up. Love the original pamphlet that came with it, too.

Looks like the rosewood is a little bit blemished / not a flat surface? Back out one of the screws from the other side to see how much material there is to work with, but planing what's there might be an option.


----------



## Mosquito

Box with a lid even! Very nice for $125 in my opinion.

As far as date/type, if you could get a close up of the trademark stamp that should be on the right side of the main skate, just below where the tote is, that would help get an exact date/type. From the look of it from what I can see in the above pictures, I'd say it looks like a Type 8, which is 1907-1908

For the rosewood fence, what Smitty suggested is a good place to start, planing it down flat to see. If that doesn't work, or you have to plane down far enough that the screws end up poking through, you can always glue another thin piece of rosewood to it, and plane it down to match the width and length of the fence. Otherwise, it would be fairly simple to make one out of whatever wood you'd want (I'd suggest keeping the original rosewood in the box, should you ever decide to sell it). For the #45, it's just a rectangular piece of wood


----------



## DLK

> Wing nut should have a collar on it. I looosen mine until it bares against the collar, this forces the moving part to actually…move. Wing nut has a groove where this collar should sit. Depending on what model you have.
> 
> - bandit571


Thanks bandit. Don't know what collar you are talking about. But I get it to move now albeit stiffly. I'm using the "project 45" that Smitty unloaded … err I mean generously sold to me a couple of years ago.

Did some more adjusting, tightened up the fence, decided I was trying to flute do deep and got 'er done. Maybe I should make a new one as Mos suggested to BurlyBob. Project to be posted later.


----------



## BurlyBob

I was thinking a new piece of rose wood might be the best, just to keep it as close to original as possible. Finding a piece is going to be a real challenge in this area.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Unloaded… Sure, make a fella feel bad on Labor Day…


----------



## DLK

Ha … LOL.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I loosen said wingnut an extra two or three turns more than I think should be needed, then push it towards towards the main body of the plane to loosen the cutter.


----------



## DLK

> I loosen said wingnut an extra two or three turns more than I think should be needed, then push it towards towards the main body of the plane to loosen the cutter.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


It was the pushing it towards the main body I had trouble with and so gave it a hammer tap.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Disassemble and clean? Might be gunk around the cutter cylnder causing it to stick.


----------



## bandit571

Don K: Remember the frog adjust bracket Stanley came out with? Same thing with the 45. At least on the one I have. Is there a small bolt head right behind the wing nut? Works like the smaller bolt on the frog adjust bracket. There is a groove on the wing nut, the same as on the bolt you adjust a plane's frog with…..

Short of drawing a picture…


----------



## Mosquito

There are two kinds of wing nuts that hold the blades in place. The older #45's use this one:









The newer ones (Type 5 and onward) have this one (the associated clip that holds it in place is directly to the right of it in the picture)









I typically have to back the wing nut off until I feel it contact the clip, and then give it another turn or two to get it to actually disengage clamping the cutter down. On my older #45's, and my #46, I usually loosen it, and then tap the end of the screw with my cross-peen hammer to get it to let go.


----------



## DLK

I have the older one and do exactly as Mos says, except I tap the wing ends as I have yet to secure a cross peen. So yea me the expert says I am doing it right.

BTW I did disassemble and it looked clean to me.

Maybe I should just buy a newer one…. or work up the courage to use the 55 or the Sargent (Craftsman 3728), but the latter does not have the 1/4" flute cutter. I do like the micro fence adjusting that is on later models.


----------



## Mosquito

Yup, if it's the older style, that's about all you can do, really. I've not had one yet that didn't "stick", but I guess that means it's doing its job well enough 

More #45's is always the right answer


----------



## DLK

Thanks.

Where can I buy a good warrington or cross peen hammer? I see some of dubious quality for sale. Hard to determine who is making a good one.


----------



## Mosquito

I bought a No. 00 and a No. 2 that were listed as new old stock on eBay in the UK. I don't see the No.00 anymore, but this was the No.2 that I bought (from this seller) http://www.ebay.com/itm/No-2-Warrington-Hammer-Ex-Black-Decker-As-Photo-Unused-Old-Stock-/361503005751?hash=item542b421c37:gBgAAOxy83JRGloQ

The No.00 is a more usable size for smaller stuff, and the one I use for small brad nails and when I need a plane adjusting hammer.


----------



## DLK

I guess I need to brave ordering on eBay from outside the U.S. How much does the No. 00 weigh?

I see these two on ebay at the moment.

Stanley W2 12oz Warrington cross Pein hammer

and

Stanley 8oz 230g Warrington Wedge-shaped cross pin pein Hardwood Shaft Hammer


----------



## Mosquito

hmm, I don't recall, but I'd guess closer to 8oz than 12oz. I'll try to remember tow eight it when I get a chance, but it'll be an estimate, since it's mounted on a handle lol


----------



## DLK

Well there is no rush. Paul sellers recommends 8 or 10 oz ones.


----------



## donwilwol

What is the advantage of the Warrington?


----------



## bandit571

Maybe a riveting hammer, for now?









It is also a good brad, and small nail hammer. And is a crosspean.


----------



## Mosquito

> What is the advantage of the Warrington?
> 
> - Don W


So you don't smack your fingers when using short brad nails. Or have to get the pliers out (which is what I used to do).


----------



## DLK

Concerning this "45" discussion Mos mentioned tapping the screw with the cross peen which I presume was to avoid possible damage to the wing nut. The cross peen would fit between the wings. This made me recall that a while back I was looking for a warrington to drive braids. You use the cross peen to start the braid as it will slip between the fingers and not smash them, then you drive the braid with the flat end and finish with a nail set. Unsuccessful I was so I gave up the search and forgot about the quest until now. It seems I need to look to the U.K. now for one.


----------



## Mosquito

Just took inventory, and I'm up to 18 #45's, with 13 different types represented. I've got a couple I should get rid of at some point…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Just took inventory, and I'm up to 18 #45 s…
> 
> - Mosquito


Oh, my.


----------



## theoldfart

18? 18? 18? EIGHTEEN STANLEY #45 COMBINATION PLANES !!!!

meh, so what 

I'm glad I don't have the many mitre boxes, only eleven. I'm much saner…........


----------



## theoldfart

Did you ever notice, Smitty is so tastefully understated? I mean just a two word response. Amazing!


----------



## Mosquito

No regrets, except that my storage cabinet has gotten too small faster than I've been able to build the planned second one lol

I took pictures of all of them so I'd have a visual inventory of the collection. It's getting difficult to remember which ones I have in what conditions…

Type 1









Type 2










Type 3










Type 4










Type 8 (x3)










Type 9










Type 11










Type 12 (x2)










Type 13









Type 15 (x2)










Type 16










Type 17










Type 20 (x2)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Don't you think "Oh, my." says it all? I mean, really…

On a related note, I'm sitting here trying to think about anything I have eighteen of in the way of tools. I think there are eighteen screwdrivers somewhere in the shop. And there are a couple multiples of 18 hand saws. But not eighteen planes, or even eleven mitreboxes. That's rarified air.


----------



## Mosquito

I've got quite a few other "Bench Planes", but I don't have any single model/number/size in a multiple of more than 3, I don't think. Just #45s. I don't think I have any saws that are the same size either, except a couple that I've inherited from my grandfather.


----------



## theoldfart

Moss, beautiful collection especially the early types.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Kevin. My big gap right now is the 5, 6, and 7. Weird that the 7 has evaded me this long (I've tried a number of times for one, just never worked out yet), as that's supposed to be one of the more common ones lol And technically my Keen Kutter K64 was made with the patterns from the Type 6, so I sort of have one of those? :-D


----------



## DLK

Even an octopus can only use 8 at once!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Photography is very fine. Thanks for sharing, Mos.


----------



## donwilwol

Excellent collection Mos


----------



## Mosquito

A number of them still need some cleaning up, but they'll get there


----------



## Brit

What's a collector?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

A collector is what Don W. is, Andy. A damn good one, too.


----------



## Brit

One day there will be a plaque on the wall of his house commemorating his services to hand tools. Huge respect for Yoda.


----------



## bandit571

Had a few problems with the T-20 I have…..have a1/4" match cutter, that will not fit, yet every other cutter I have, slides into place without a problem. Almost like the cutter is too thick?

Second problem..I was trying to think of a way to use it on these..








Wound up using that 60-1/2 instead. Board was just too narrow for the 45 to ride on. Would have had to use a few extra boards for it to ride on….was quicker with the block plane..


----------



## Mosquito

What were you trying to do with a #45 that a normal block plane was sufficient for? Seems like the wrong place for a #45


----------



## bandit571

Cutting a few beads..









Raised panel is a seperate piece. Felt the beaded top edges would look better than just plain square edges…


----------



## bandit571

Now, about that too fat match cutter..









I have two of these 1/4" match cutters. One fits right in, the second one? I need to almost run the clamping bolt all the way out for the cutter to even start to fit in the groove. All the rest of the cutters fit right in, no problems









Board WAS a tad narrow, went with the 3/16" instead. Fit right in the slot for the cutter, no problems at all.


----------



## Mosquito

is the cutter bent? I've seen that be a problem before


----------



## bandit571

Doesn't seem to be. Maybe it is too flat? Most of the other cutters seem to have a slight curve to them..


----------



## DanKrager

Today's task, among other things, was to clean up the bull nose of the stair treads. I had cleaned most of the nose off with a shaper, but I wanted the final touch to be with a hollow plane. I never imagined it to be so easy and the results are beyond my expectation. Makes sanding a waste of time. Moral of the story I think: don't waste your money on a shaper cutter if you have a nicely fettled hollow plane.

















DanK


----------



## DLK

DanK: What is that hollow plane? Veritas? I was expecting a wooden one.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm guessing a #45 with a nosing base


----------



## DanKrager

You keep your pictures a LONG time, Mos. I tried that particular shoe (which I bought from you) with a Record blade, but the profiles were misaligned enough I had to do sacrilege by putting the Record hollow on the 45 with a Record blade. I still haven't sprung for a blade for the Stanley hollow. But it sang like a bird. The floor is covered with wispy curls like on the bench.
DanK


----------



## DLK

> I m guessing a #45 with a nosing base
> 
> - Mosquito


That end shot:



> - Dan Krager


sure made it look like a different plane to me.


----------



## Mosquito

I don't delete anything lol

The only H&R's and Nosing base I've got are all Records with Record Irons. I've been keeping an eye out for a cheap 405 to go with them, so it feels less dirty lol


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I know it's not fancy or anything but the 45 did it's first real task tonight cutting dados for my tool chest dividers. I haven't put the dividers in. Time to call it a day for me. But they are ready to go when I figure out final layout in the bottom.


----------



## DanKrager

It's good to see these old planes come to life again. Good work, fellas.

DanK


----------



## KelleyCrafts

You as well Dan. I just got mine and I have to say, it's really not finicky like everyone says. You just have to remember all of the settings for depth and keep sharp blades. I definitely like mine, played with it a lot but this is the first time I actually used it for something in a project.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I keep searching for rounds and hollows. Explain to me the difference between the different numbers. Are the radius different or do you need different ones for different woods? There's some #8's on the bay right now but they seem a bit spendy. Would love to get some but not sure which ones, do you really "need" all 4 sizes?


----------



## bandit571

Hollows and rounds and Nosing bases and cutters…..nhplaneparts.com

#10 with cutter was almost $70….


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice!

The difference with the Hollow and Round numbers is indeed the radius. The number is in reference to the number of eights it is. So No. 6 is 6/8ths, or 3/4" radius. 8 is 1", 10 is 1-1/4", and 12 is 1-1/2". The 5N (Nosing base Dan was using) is 1-1/4", but is a 1/2 circle instead of 1/6 circle like the others.

Do you need them? Probably not, but I have found them enjoyable. They are a little on the more costly side though like you said, so whether or not it's "worth it" is completely up to you


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Thanks Mos, so does the material need to be that thick or is that the radio is the 1/6th will perform. Lots of math probably but could you use say the #6 on a 1" think edge? Or a #10 on a 3/4"?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I like nhplaneparts bandit. I actually ordered a part to use for the box I will build for my 45. You all will have to wait to see it though. Haven't see the idea used yet so I want to keep it on the DL for now but want to figure out if I need to plan for some new hollows and rounds to go with it.


----------



## Mosquito

you can use whatever base you want on whatever sized stock you want, but it all depends on what you're trying to accomplish. No.6 - 3/4" is the radius, but it only cuts 1/6th of that 1-1/2" circle. You pair the Hollow or Round base with the profile you're trying to cut rather than the material (except with the nosing base like Dan used).

You can also rotate the Hollow or Round around the profile you're cutting to cut more than 1/6 of the circle. That's what you would do if you wanted a 1/4 round, or more.

As an example, this was using the No. 8 H&R bases, with 3/4" material to make an Ogee


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Perfect explaination. Thanks Mos. I watched that video in the past but the audio might not have been up if you explained it on there. Ok, So much to learn….I still don't see these for sale much. So it's kind of a bummer.


----------



## DLK

Someone needs to buy this! Its very cool.

Circa 1880 Antique Phillips Combination Plow Plane Single Fence Very Ornate!!


----------



## Mosquito

> Perfect explaination. Thanks Mos. I watched that video in the past but the audio might not have been up if you explained it on there. Ok, So much to learn….I still don t see these for sale much. So it s kind of a bummer.
> 
> - ki7hy


There was no audio other than music, so you weren't missing anything. I might do a video on the H&R bases sometime, but need to catch up on other things first lol


----------



## Mosquito

That is a pretty neat plane Don, but at $900 it'd wipe me out for a while lol


----------



## DLK

Just sell off a dozen 45s


----------



## donwilwol

> Someone needs to buy this! Its very cool.
> 
> Circa 1880 Antique Phillips Combination Plow Plane Single Fence Very Ornate!!
> 
> - Combo Prof


The Phillips are pretty rare. I'm only about $850 short.

I always wonder, did they buy it from a collector, or find it at a yard sale for $15.

One can dream of such a find.


----------



## Mosquito

I came across this at an MW-TCA meet this spring, was kind of neat. I don't know anything about it, so no idea if the $2400 asking was appropriate or not.


----------



## Brit

That looks a tad overpriced to me. I mean, that case isn't even original. )


----------



## theoldfart

^ haha


----------



## Mosquito

My 19 is 19…

But, to me I'd rather have a Miller's Patent No. 50 over either of the two above…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That is… flowery. I'll take it!


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I like the flowery ones myself. I don't own any though.


----------



## Mosquito

The No. 50 has a certain delicate elegance about it, that I feel like the more "common" Miller's Patent plough planes don't (the 41s, 42s, 43s, and their 100 counter parts)

While they certainly are ornate, and gorgeous tools themselves, they just seem more robust and heavy looking to me…










Really I'd be happy to own any of them lol


----------



## donwilwol

> I came across this at an MW-TCA meet this spring, was kind of neat. I don t know anything about it, so no idea if the $2400 asking was appropriate or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito





> I've been watching those Metallic Plane Co. Fillisters. They are highly collectable. There is one on EBay now. Starting bid is $999. If that one was complete, $2400 might be doable (but not for me ).


----------



## Mosquito

So this showed up on Monday, and has me excited… needs some work though… some screws are stripped, and one of the guide rods on the moving section of the fence has come loose. Also missing a few thumb screws, and could use a little cleaning, and get the terrible attempt at restoring the wood taken care of (Seriously, do these people dip these things in lacquer??)


----------



## theoldfart

Aluminium Moss? How hard will it be to re-tap those threads?


----------



## Mosquito

Shouldn't be hard to re-tap, but what I'm concerned about is whether there's anything left to tap… if it really screwed up the threads, I'd have to figure out a way to add material to tap…


----------



## theoldfart

try a threaded insert, helicoil if I remember right


----------



## Mosquito

Not a bad idea, if I can find one that matches… Otherwise I was thinking I could probably slightly drill out, epoxy in a piece of aluminum tubing, then re-drill and tap that as required.

The really hard one is going to be the part of the micro-adjustment screw that goes into the fence… that's a weird TPI/size combination, and reverse… I probably won't "fix" that one. Realistically I probably won't ever use this one anyway.


----------



## Mosquito

Also, post #1000


----------



## theoldfart

Think of it, 1,000 combination multi thoughts on ones tool!


----------



## Mosquito

> Think of it, 1,000 combination multi thoughts on ones tool!
> 
> - theoldfart


that sounds dirty lol


----------



## KelleyCrafts

You should clean your tool more often Mos.


----------



## Mosquito

I try to polish it daily


----------



## theoldfart

:-0


----------



## DLK

It seems that there are a lot of naked 45s on eBay. (Naked to mean with out cutters and other desirables.)

I'm tempted to buy a few.

Mos how many boxes of cutters do you have? Do you have a complete set for each of your 18 (I guess 19 now)?

How many of each cutter would be nice to have in far as actual users?


----------



## Mosquito

I do not have a complete set for each plane. I think I've got 9 or 10 sets of irons total. One is my set of user irons with my main user #45. Most other sets are ones that are with complete planes+irons+boxes, etc, that won't get separated


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> I try to polish it daily
> 
> - Mosquito


Good one! I have my wife do mine. It's my attempt to get her into working wood. :O Okay okay…the train is off the tracks. Sorry. Of course we could go on and on.


----------



## Mosquito

> I try to polish it daily
> 
> - Mosquito
> 
> 
> 
> Good one! I have my wife do mine. It s my attempt to get her into working wood. :O Okay okay…the train is off the tracks. Sorry. Of course we could go on and on.
> 
> - ki7hy
Click to expand...

 And we haven't even gotten to talking about short vs long rods yet


----------



## theoldfart

uh, and slitters too!


----------



## Mosquito

Depth adjustment… 
knurled vs ribbed…

Dang these things are innuendo friendly


----------



## CO_Goose

> try a threaded insert, helicoil if I remember right
> 
> - theoldfart


Correct, helicoil. You will need to drill the hole larger and then use the specific helicoil tool to insert the helicoil. Once that is done you will have steel threads, and not the easily stripped aluminum threads. I would not suggest installing another aluminum sleeve and tapping it, you will end up with the same issue later with stripped aluminum threads.


----------



## theoldfart

just don't get me started on tongue and groove :_0


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Oh no…..cover your eyes daughter. Son, get over here and read this.


----------



## DLK

> I do not have a complete set for each plane. I think I ve got 9 or 10 sets of irons total. One is my set of user irons with my main user #45. Most other sets are ones that are with complete planes+irons+boxes, etc, that won t get separated
> 
> - Mosquito


So you get by with working out one set. 
Is that a set of the 4 boxes for the 55, or the 2 boxes for the 45 or just the standard box?

Basically I have the 4 #55 boxes and have scraped together a standard 45 box.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Leave it to someone named Goose to get us back on track and offer intelligible conversation. We're all like 11 year olds. It's great.


----------



## theoldfart

and it all started with tools. We should probably get back on track before the PC police find out so lets get crackin'


----------



## DLK

I am so ashamed … that none of you smut peddlars … are named Smitty. LOL


----------



## Mosquito

> So you get by with working out one set.
> Is that a set of the 4 boxes for the 55, or the 2 boxes for the 45 or just the standard box?
> 
> Basically I have the 4 #55 boxes and have scraped together a standard 45 box.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I have 1 set of #45 irons (2 box set) that I primarily use, a second single box set that I use as a 'backup' set if I need the same size iron with two different set ups, as well as the 4-box set of #55 irons


----------



## Mosquito

> Correct, helicoil. You will need to drill the hole larger and then use the specific helicoil tool to insert the helicoil. Once that is done you will have steel threads, and not the easily stripped aluminum threads. I would not suggest installing another aluminum sleeve and tapping it, you will end up with the same issue later with stripped aluminum threads.
> 
> - CO_Goose


Yeah, helicoil is what I thought of when I read threaded insert, as it's the least invasive (smallest enlargement required). I'm not worried about the longevity of the threads, as I'd rather have closer to original if I can. The aluminum #45 probably won't see much use, beyond "getting experience" with it. I'd like to be able to use it a little, so I can knowledgeably speak as to the effect of the weight difference in use, between the cast iron and aluminum versions. After that, it'll just be part of the collection.


----------



## DLK

> So you get by with working out one set.
> Is that a set of the 4 boxes for the 55, or the 2 boxes for the 45 or just the standard box?
> 
> Basically I have the 4 #55 boxes and have scraped together a standard 45 box.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> I have 1 set of #45 irons (2 box set) that I primarily use, a second single box set that I use as a backup set if I need the same size iron with two different set ups, as well as the 4-box set of #55 irons
> 
> - Mosquito


My quest will then to buy a second type 12 or better 45 and box 2 of the cutters.

I do have a Sargent made for craftsman combination plane and I think all the cutters. I have never used it.
(I'm still a little afraid of of the #55, but some day soon I think it will be put to use.)


----------



## Mosquito

#55 is fun too. Little more fiddly with set up, but once you've figured out the #45, there's really only 2 more things with the #55


----------



## DLK

If you says so. Right now I am thinking to wear it as a halloween costume.


----------



## jwmalone

Well fellows, I've been reading this forum for a while and although it wont arrive for a week or so I bought me a #45. It doesn't come with cutters so I need to find me some of those. 
Mosquito, i watched two or your videos yesterday, 2 hours later I bought one on eBay (see what you started). After seeing the videos it looked like to much fun not to own one. Thanks for the videos. anyone know of a good deal on a few cutters let me know. Dados and rabits I'm looking for first.


----------



## Mosquito

Excellent! You'll have to share some pictures once it arrives 

There are almost always sets of irons on eBay, so I'd suggest watching a few and see if you can pick up a set for around $50, would be about average for a box, more if the box/label is good, or the irons are nice and clean, less if the box sucks, and the irons are worn, dirty, or rusted. Seems to be about the average anyway


----------



## jwmalone

Thanks Mosquito, I paid 50 for the plane seems about right best I can tell. I'm a cheap tight wad, this is one of those rare I just want one type things. But I can see the potential use in some really nice projects. Its 100% complete with long rods, I know several welders and fabricators I can come up with some short rods no problem, can probably make some of the cutters.


----------



## Mosquito

If you're only going to have 1 set of rods, the long rods are the ones you want. I use long rods for probably 95% of the time I use the #45, and that's mostly because I'm too lazy to switch them lol. As a result, my secondary user is set up with short rods all the time instead.


----------



## jwmalone

Ok fellows, and lady's, I got my eyes on a set of cutters one complete set in the original box says #45 ($45), the others are lose only 20 $29.00 wish me luck.
Question, I read you can use the #45 cutters on the 55 but you cant use the #55 cutters on the #45. How do you tell the difference by looking at them. I don't trust some of the sellers on ebay to know exactly what they got and damn sure don't want to buy a non returnable blade I cant use.


----------



## DLK

No you can use the 55 cutters on the 45. Where did you read the converse?


----------



## jwmalone

Combo, I've read so much about it in the last two days I cant remember. Only read it once and I know nothing about it, so I ask the pros (you guys) thanks for clearing that up for me,


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The asymmetrical cutters are problematic in the #45 in that the skate depth is adjustable on the #55; not so on the #45. No support for cutters like this:










Straight, fluting and beading cutters are fine.


----------



## DLK

Yes, but the cutters that are for the 45 are a subset of the cutters for the 55. So if you have all 4 boxes for the 55 then you will have included amongst them all the cutters for the 45.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That is a true statement. But not *all* #55 cutters work in the #45 was the point I was making (in reply to JW's question in post #1030 above).


----------



## DLK

Yes. I was confused about what JW was asking.



> Question, I read you can use the #45 cutters on the 55 but you cant use the #55 cutters on the #45. How do you tell the difference by looking at them. I don t trust some of the sellers on ebay to know exactly what they got and damn sure don t want to buy a non returnable blade I cant use.
> 
> - jwmalone


Just check the pictures in the 45 manual and get the cutters that look like those. Also the numbering (if they are numbered) is the same for the common to both 45 and 55 cutters.


----------



## jwmalone

Thanks guys, the one I'm realy trying to get is in the original box and clearly says #45 on it so I should be safe, but I'm going to search a little more first, there 2 days left on the auction.


----------



## theoldfart

Moss, someone in need of guidance


----------



## Mosquito

Got it, thanks


----------



## jwmalone

Hello guys, I won an eBay auction for that box of cutters. So now I have an original box with all cutters for my new #45. All together I have $102 dollars in there (excluding shipping). Seems about right, but I thught it worth it so I'm happy.


----------



## Mosquito

as long as you're happy with it that's what matters, right? I'd say unless shipping was ridiculous, $102 is well within normal. I've spent less on planes, but I've also spent more


----------



## jwmalone

No shipping wasn't bad $10 for the cutters $13 for the plane so $125 in all. The cheapest plane with cutters was 155 I think. Saw one for 500 dollars lol.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah… every now and then those seem to pop up. Unless it's aluminum, I'll probably never drop that much cash on a 45, no matter how nice it is lol


----------



## jwmalone

Looks like there might be another new guy on here, and he is only 17. Good to see the traditional stuff will make into another generation. If the crafts man only worked for twenty years then retired, that means there are tons of tools out there that have out lived five owners. Fascinating aint it!


----------



## jwmalone

Well she's here fellows. now to date it


----------



## Mosquito

There's some miss-match going on there. The floral casting on the main skate was phased out after Type 8, which was 7 years before the Type 12 introduced the micro adjustable fence. The sliding skate matches the fence not the main skate.

Should be a perfectly solid user though, regardless.

Also, just for information's sake; the main depth stop is 180° from where it should be, and the moving section of the fence is upside down as well.


----------



## jwmalone

lol yea I caught the fence part, tonight I'm going to it down and study on it. thanks


----------



## tshiker

jwmalone,
I love how excited you are about you new plane! These days it's hard to get that level excitement out of $125! And you know what? If for some reason your passion fades and you no longer want that plane, you can sell it and recoup most if not all of your money back. And chances are you'd be selling it to someone who, like you, waited with baited breath (is that an out of date saying?) for it's arrival, and subsequently joined a hand tool woodworking forum to brag / talk about it because his / her better half rolled their eyes at the mere mention of it.

Been there done that!
Tom.
ps I have 5 45's a 1080 and a 55.


----------



## jwmalone

Thanks tshiker, and guess what my cutters came to day!! So I'm all set. But ive got to finish the cabinet I'm working on for a lady before I touch it or well…......... you know planes are like live wires you touch one and cant let go 

As far as selling it goes, when they bury me I might l have two 45s in the casket….. Dads Colt and a Stanley. lol.


----------



## Mosquito

I've now got 19 #45s, and the Keen Kutter KK64 equivalent, and still feel that way every time


----------



## bandit571

Type 20 making a kerf cut for a ripsaw to follow









Should have gone a might deeper…oh well..


----------



## jwmalone

Good idea Bandit, the potential is growing. Wonder if I can get mine to fetch a beer?


----------



## bandit571

I tried that a few times…...I think it drank the beer for me…..and hid the bottles..
I think I should have gone a bit deeper, though. Been a better guide, that way. Wonder how the slitter would do for this sort of thing?


----------



## tshiker

Mosquito,
I should have known not to bring a knife to a gun fight! I bow to the Master…..;-)


----------



## jwmalone

Yea, I trained my dog to fetch beer,,, the ex wife taught him to steal it and bury it….

I don't have the slitter, but good idea. I also have to resaw lumber that size by hand. So ive been using the table saw to cut a kerf. But its a small saw so longer stuff doesn't get an accurate grove to follow. Ive also experimented with a guide, a modified miter box if you will for controlling the back side?? I managed to rip some 4/4 2 foot pieces and after planning them down came to be 3/8. not to shabby but half came to be 1/4 so not exactly a success. I was also using my Disston d-28 and d-8 both crosscut so.. I think that slitter would make a smaller kerf and be easier to follow, but my problem is the back side. I can follow a line no problem cross cut but ripping is new.

Oh and just you guys know the cutters I bought look like they got packed up some where and forgot about for half a century or so,, very little wear just some surface rust no problem.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Much been bantered about re: converting a #45 or even #55 to a kerfing plane. I think it was even posted here, cutting a piece of saw plate and mounting it to a #55; it was better suited than the #45 for the job.

Interested to see if you have any luck with the slitter cutter. Leach says it works best on straight grain, and for my (short) experiments, he was dead on. It follows grain lines and gets bogged down quickly. The instinct is it's a finesse tool. It's not.

EDIT: It's "Kerfing Plane," (stupid auto correct)


----------



## jwmalone

Ill keep that in mind Smitty, when I start using it. First I need to google kerning plane


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hah, just read what I typed. It's not Kerning, but Kerfing. I don't know what kerning is, either.


----------



## HerbC

Kerning is the term for adjusting the distance between letters when setting type or doing publishing quality page design using software. The process makes the distance between letter variable due to improved looks and also facilitates text justification.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Hah! Now that you say that Herb, I did have an idea what kerning is. It's amazing, the knowledge there is here on LJs…


----------



## jwmalone

I thought it some thing to do with Orville Redenbacher and pop corn? So you're say my 45 cant make popcorn or fetch beer?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> So you re say my 45 cant make popcorn or fetch beer?
> 
> - jwmalone


I'm not going to tell you that. It's a question you'll have to address for yourself, as one of the (many) areas to explore re: plane ownership.


----------



## jwmalone

Ok, if it will just do what its intended to, I wont ask anything more from it. Guess its time for a new dog.


----------



## jwmalone

Well guys, I used the 45 to cut groves for the plywood bottoms on this drawer I'm making. Work like a charm, way faster than setting up the router table.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Noice!


----------



## jwmalone

Question, I did several practice runs on some scrap. A couple times the skates would bind up real bad as it got deeper. I noticed afterwards that a few were cut at an angle, so I'm thinking the binding happened because I wasn't holding nice and level??


----------



## bandit571

Yep.

Might also wax the skates and fence. Seems to help out. I've also noticed on mine, that when it starts to bind, the fence seems to have move a hair. Might keep an eye on that, too.


----------



## JayT

> I m thinking the binding happened because I wasn t holding nice and level??
> 
> - jwmalone


Yep, that would be the reason. Make sure to wax the skate and body, as well.


----------



## Mosquito

Also, were you using the 1/4" cutter? Technically the 1/4" iron wasn't intended to be used with both skates. It can cause binding because the 2 skates combined are about 1/4", and if the iron doesn't clear enough of a path, it can bind because of that.


----------



## jwmalone

Thanks guys, Now I remember reading that one skate for real small stuff. I did wax every thing. The only thing missing is one bar on the fence need to find one, 
Another question, I haven't used it cross grain yet do you sharpen those spurs?
Yes I was using the 1/4 inch Mosquito. Cool thing bout those cutters I bought they were in really good shape, hell most looked like they were never used so sharpening was a breeze


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nicker / spur sharpening is no fun. And lower your expectations when going cross-grain. That said, both tasks are doable. Patience with the sharpening, and accommodate blow-out when cutting cross-grain.


----------



## JayT

Sharpen the spurs for sure. I have had the best luck going cross grain by retracting the cutter completely and pulling back across the workpiece a couple times to allow the spurs to score the top surface first. Then advance the cutter a bit and start cutting the dado.


----------



## jwmalone

Gotcha Mr. Smitty.


----------



## Mosquito

You may also be well advised to cut the end of the dado before you begin. Whether that means with a saw, or a knife.

I may have a video with that in it somewhere, I'll have to give a look


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

JayT and Mos are wise in their counsel.


----------



## jwmalone

Good stuff guys. Jayt damn good idea, I was thinking something like that but retracting the cuter is a better idea.


----------



## DanKrager

Adequate scoring for cross grain work is hard for me to get with the stock nickers. I usually enhance the score with a very sharp utility knife and renew it every other stroke or so. Much, much easier to make a clean and true cut. Yes, use a back stroke to start the score. And I'm hoping it saves some wear on the precious tiny nickers.

DanK


----------



## jwmalone

Dan that was my original idea. Wasn't sure how to do it I see what your saying. You guys are pretty damn good yall should take up wood working


----------



## DLK

Another combination plane arrived in my shop today:









Now I have 5 Stanley's: 45, 45,50,46,55 . So I guess its time to build some boxes for them. I have a stack of re-sawn white pine for this, that I was about to size into panels. Was about to begin when it occurred to me, that if I build a separate container for the 45 cutters, then I could put the 45s in a smaller box. The two 45's would share these cutters. Is this a stupid idea? (To not keep the cutters in the same box as a 45.)


----------



## DanKrager

Well, not stoopid, but perhaps that's how so many cutters are no longer with the family? I'd vote build boxes that hold everything, even if everything isn't present at this time. Then you "have a place for everything and everything in its place". That's my shop motto.

DanK


----------



## DLK

Yes maybe. I basically have one box of 45 cutters 2 45's and all 4 boxes for the 55 all the cutters for the 46 and for the 50. *And very little shelf space left for it all.* So I was thinking outside the box. But I agree. Maybe A different design. We will see.


----------



## WoodWorkJosh

Hello fellow LumberJocks. I just wanted to post on here first before I sell on ebay or elsewhere. I am selling my Stanley 45 with full set of blades in a box I made for it, and I'm also selling a second Stanley 45 with a set of plow irons. I think the second one I'm selling is a Montgomery Wards. Pm me if you would like pics or prices. Happy woodworking.


----------



## bandit571

Question for the Gurus here…..been hearing tales of adding a back bevel to the beading cutters?

Seems that is the only way to get tear-out free beads…..with the new Plough plane LV is coming out with?

None of the cutters I have, has such a thing. Does it NEED to be done for the #45? Or just more of the "High angle to prevent tear out" hype?


----------



## bandit571

Ok, does anyone here add a back bevel to their cutters? Seems to be all the rage. Derek Cohen is pushing both the new Veritas Plough plane to use bead cutters, and says a back bevel is needed on the cutters?

I went and checked mine…..not a single one has a back bevel…..deprived? Or just hype?


----------



## WoodWorkJosh

Personally I think it is just hype, just like micro bevels. I am a fan of the Paul Sellers method of sharpening. Just very simple and straight forward. It gets you back to woodworking faster. Which after all is the goal. I don't know about you but I'm not a metal worker… I'm a woodworker…. Just my 2 cents


----------



## bandit571

Alrighty, here it goes…...

Needed to make some round bottomed grooves to hold a few auger bits. A hollow or round plane of the needed size was not available…but two large bead cutters are. I have both the 5/8" bead cutter, and the 3/4" bead cutter.

Decided to turn the 3/4" one into a round cutter. 









Took a while at the grinder, and a lot of dunking in the water bowl. Gave it a test drive..









This is after three times of set the depth and plane. Needs to take shallow cuts to avoid chattering. 









I think I have enough left I can go a bit deeper….doubt if the depth stops will be needed, as the skates will do that job. Had to start at the far end, and work my work back. All this just to house five large aurger bits..









That is a #20 bit…..as in 20/16" have a few other bits to make grooves for. The fourth holder will just use a square cutter….as the bits in it will be a lot smaller. Not too worried about the reground bit, may come in handy again sometime. IF I need a 3/4" bead, I know where to buy another one.


----------



## Mosquito

I just received the 2nd most expensive #45 that I've purchased to date (only one more expensive being my A45), and it's not even the most rare one that I have either. Though it did come with the #8 H&R bases (with irons), a reeding cutter, and a cool craftsman built box for it, and I've still never paid over $200 for a normal #45 yet



















Also a box for a beading/moulding attachment for a chamfer plane. Unfortunately just the box lol (not that I have a chamfer plane anyway)









And I also picked up some Stanley H&R bases, No. 6 and No. 8, with irons. So now I've got 2 sets of the No. 8 Stanleys, in addition to my No. 6, 8, and 10 Record bases.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

You must be running out of space for those H&Rs. Mos PM your PayPal info and I'll pay for shipping.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I really like that user-made box too. Looks like the owner/builder had everything he needed with the tool, including the one set of H&Rs he wanted. I'd vote for more pictures (and dimensions) of the box! Very nice, Mos. A box for the beading attachment to the #72, now that's a weird bit of ephemera to find with a #45!


----------



## DLK

I am with Smitty, its a cool "chest" and I like to see measurements and more pictures. Reminds me of a english tool chest.


----------



## theoldfart

Well Mos, since you have two sets of Stanley #8 H&R's you really don't need that Record #8 right?


----------



## Mosquito

Ha, I do seem to have an abundance of H&R bases now… I'll most likely be selling off one of the sets of No.8 H&R Stanley's, as I don't see a need to have 2 [of the same type], but at the same time I like the idea of keeping the H&R set with this particular assembly, since it came that way and the box would look bare with out it…

Kevin, trust me, once I catch up with Stanley H&R's you'll be the first person I contact about the Records ;-) Truthfully, the reason I've got the Records and not Stanley's, is because I'm averaging a *LOT* less per set for the Records than most Stanley's go for. The 2 sets I just picked up, however, are very close to that same average (about +$5/set over my average on the Records). So basically since I've got the Record bases (sans No. 12's), I'm taking my time, and being opportunistic on the Stanley ones.

I will get some better and more detailed pictures of it this weekend, hopefully. There are some things I would change if I were to build one similar to it, and am also considering updating on this one. Only one change on this one, though. More if I was to build another one, I think.

Only reason I'm considering changing anything, is because I have to repair it. There was, unfortunately, some damage to the chest during. Most of it was easily repaired already (the side trim on the lid was coming off, and the inner lid liner fell out, both just pounded back in place, and tapped the nails home a little with a nail set). The divider in the chest between the H&R compartment and the plane compartment suffered the most. I'm thinking I'll try to work the existing nails back out, straighten them the best I can, try gluing the divider back together, putting it back in place, and trying to use the original nails, to keep the paint/patina in tact


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Looks doable Mos. Fantastic collection buddy.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"Yes" to all points in your plan. It'll work, it'd be right to do. You're a good man, Mos. DPs aside. ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

I like the box enough to consider making one like it and sizing it to fit all of the H&R's, the nosing piece and all of my cutters. Guess I'll have to watch Moss's build so get going buddy


----------



## terryR

+1 to considering a copy of that box.


----------



## Mosquito

Goal #1 was to get the Type 14, but what made this one the Type 14 I wanted was definitely the box (the H&R bases were a plus too).


----------



## CL810

+1 to copying the box as well. New thread??? 45 tool chests of your Dreams? lol


----------



## Mosquito

lol As if I need another one to keep up with


----------



## donwilwol

Mos is going for the Guinness book of records!!


----------



## DLK

I thought he was going for the Guinness book of Stanleys.


----------



## donwilwol

Good one!


----------



## Mosquito

Or Stan Lee's Superhumans


----------



## bandit571

Or, maybe something from the pages of "Richie Rich"?


----------



## Mosquito

No, not really


----------



## TheFridge

I tried an ogee(?) in padauk. Went great until the main skate lost contact. Fence rode on vise chop and depth gauge on a piece of scrap and I still had trouble. Hopefully I can get it fingered out one day.


----------



## Mosquito

Fridge I'm not quite sure I follow… how did the main skate lose contact?


----------



## Mosquito

> I will get some better and more detailed pictures of it this weekend, hopefully.
> 
> - Mosquito


I didn't forget about this, and I have gotten many more pictures, though most are measurements for me. I've also made a sketchup model…

I've got all the non-measurement pictures edited, but I'll just post the outside pictures for now. I'll post the others tomorrow, as I don't want to flood too many pictures on one post.


----------



## Mosquito

I guess trying to space them out didn't work out, so here's the second round


----------



## DLK

First round was better, but the second round illuminated more details.


----------



## Mosquito

hopefully the 3rd round will be better still, from a detail standpoint


----------



## Tim457

What no finger joints in the model or separate panels for the bottom? So disappointing.

Hah, just kidding, nice model and detail shots. When you first posted the picture of the chest, I didn't look around the room for anything to judge the scale and just assumed it was a full size tool chest. Makes for a very interesting 45 box.


----------



## Mosquito

haha, no finger joints in the model, I don't like finger joints


----------



## bandit571

Hmm, I like finger joints..









Of course, this is modeled on the Canadian version..









A little less room inside, though..









Seems to work…


----------



## donwilwol

What is there about this thread that makes it not fit on my phone?


----------



## Mosquito

I think box joints are ugly, personally.

Don, maybe it's the title of it? It's rather long, and I know that's been an issue for my phone before too… LumberJocks just has a terrible (no) mobile site… seems like they don't really care much beyond just keeping the forums online since it got sold


----------



## CL810

Most, how difficult is it to get the cutters out of the slots inside the box?


----------



## bandit571

Just use a magnet to lift one out. Saves a cut finger….DAMHIKT
BTW:I have two rows of cutters in the one I made…..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mos, how does that elevated till attach at the right end, given there's a cutter box there?


----------



## Mosquito

> Most, how difficult is it to get the cutters out of the slots inside the box?
> 
> - CL810


Not too difficult, but not the easiest. That is something I'd likely change, if I were to be building a new one.



> Mos, how does that elevated till attach at the right end, given there s a cutter box there?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Unfortunately, there's a nail through the cutter box, from the outside of the box into the ends of the till side. I say unfortunately, as it means the irons don't all fit in size order. Have to get them out of order, to fit enough between the end of the box and the nail. Also something I'd change if I were redoing it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

And the left cutter box… I think I saw a pair of screws on the inside, holding it in place. Interesting.


----------



## Mosquito

There are a pair of screws holding both of them in place




























And here's the nails going through I talked about before


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Think that elevated till was a later add-on?

Great pics, BTW.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks, I have the light+background set up for my case review stuff, so figured I might as well use it 

It's possible it was added later, but I'm not sure. It was at least added before it was painted maroon, but other than that I don't know.

Here's a little video tour of the box I shot last night. I was trying out a new video set up, so it may be a bit shakey (hand held), and trying to demonstrate stuff at the same time).


----------



## terryR

Yep, those are awesome shots. The white background and proper lighting certainly make a difference.

I'm still amazed how simple this lil box is; yet functions perfectly for the plane and accessories. It really highlights what a suck-butt job I did while building boxes for my cutters, and a home for the 45.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice tour Mos, thanks!


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks guys.

Exploring things like this makes it pretty clear how easy it is to over engineer things


----------



## bandit571

Set up to plough some grooves tonight..









I traded out the long rods and cam rest for just the short rods. Installed a 1/4" cutter. Built a cheap jig to hold things still….and ploughed away some Cherry..









Waxed the skates and fence for each of the four pieces I was ploughing. At least the grooves lined up..









Make a bunch of curly shavings, too…..


----------



## WhoMe

Ok mr. Mosquito, did I do ok for $10?? I got it on black Friday from a co worker.

















I know it needs work but the rust seems to be mostly superficial. I already have a newer body with a set of cutters so this would be a second body. So since the wood is missing or really thrashed, I think I'll be making my own parts of some other wood. 
From the links at the beginning, I think it is a type 7-8. There are a couple of "B" casting marks on the plane, would that make it a type 7 or does that matter. The b is on the adjuster wheel and either the skate or fence section, I forgot which. it does have both nickers and screws which is nice.
I'll post a rehabbed shot in the future, of course.


----------



## bandit571

Details…









Details…









Used the #23 cutter..









Details….









A #22 and the #23 cutters. First pair showed the #22 and the #12 cutters. The #12 was for the grooves on the insides, to house the top and bottom panels…


----------



## Mosquito

> I know it needs work but the rust seems to be mostly superficial. I already have a newer body with a set of cutters so this would be a second body. So since the wood is missing or really thrashed, I think I ll be making my own parts of some other wood.
> From the links at the beginning, I think it is a type 7-8. There are a couple of "B" casting marks on the plane, would that make it a type 7 or does that matter. The b is on the adjuster wheel and either the skate or fence section, I forgot which. it does have both nickers and screws which is nice.
> I ll post a rehabbed shot in the future, of course.
> 
> - WhoMe


$10 seems fine as long as you're happy with it, should clean up alright. Would also be fun to add your own wood for handle and knob (that style knob is rather expensive on eBay). It's hard to tell from the picture, but if the fence says "trade45mark" on it, instead of just "45" in an oval, then it'd be a type 8 (assuming all parts are original to the plane).


----------



## WhoMe

Annd, that is why I came to ask wizard Mosquito about the plane type. Thank you for the info.
I'll have to double check on the "45" part.

For $10, I figured, what the heck, it might be an interesting project. At least I have another one to use as an example for the rehab project. Hopefully everything will come apart easily.


----------



## Tim457

It's going to take some sweat to earn your equity but you should be able to make it work so it seems well worth the Hamilton you paid.


----------



## WhoMe

Well I went back and looked, it does say "trade 45 mark" so I guess it is a type 8.
Tim, not sure how much sweat equity will be required to reach what I spent but I figure if it comes our usable, I'm already money ahead.
It is going to be fun.


----------



## WhoMe

I got it all apart. No broken parts or screws. I even got both nickers and their screws out without issues. Yay…
Now to look for the blog on how to remove the pins holding in the handle. I think Don W did a blog on that. I don't want to totally destroy the handle, I want to use it as a template for a new one. 
I did notice some brazing on the fence piece on the arched part close to the rod clamp.


----------



## bandit571

Just some "bead work"..









A single bead, all the way around the box.


----------



## WillliamMSP

> I did notice some brazing on the fence piece on the arched part close to the rod clamp.
> 
> - WhoMe


My old Sargent-made Fulton had a break and repair at the same spot. They didn't get the alignment perfect, so they shimmed the fence a bit. I've since bought an intact Sargent and, after using it, I think that the difficulties I'd had previously stemmed from the (two) imperfect repair attempts.


----------



## Mosquito

My main user had a broken and repaired fence in a similar spot for a long time before I replaced the broken piece. I only replaced it for aesthetic and collection reasons though. The repair on mine, though ugly, was well aligned and didn't cause any issues that I noticed. But then again, I've got a Stanley #140 that was repaired and it it was done so poorly that the nose of the plane is about 3mm off the bench when set down lol

I'd say give it a go once you've cleaned it up and see where you're at.


----------



## WhoMe

I may but an intact fence in the future but since this will be a second "user" , I probably won't get another fence unless it is out of alignment. Even so the repair looks minor.
Thanks for the insight


----------



## WhoMe

Ok, got tired of looking in this thread and even looked I'm Don W's site to no avail. 
Can anyone shed light on the best way to remove the pins that bold the wood part of the handle on place. I want to remove it to start on a new handle and don't want to destroy it when I give the whole plane a good soaking in evaporust. 
Any help will be greatly appreciated. Mike


----------



## DLK

The handle wood is held on the same way as knife scales or perfect tool handle scales are with pins that are peened over. I don't think they can be removed without drilling them out and hence will have to be replaced if you do so.

Are you trying to save the wooden handle? Otherwise you can break the wood and leave the pins in place, but then its hard to get a new handle back on.

You can put wood into clean fresh evaporust and it will be fine provided you don't leave in too long, but the wood will need to be cleaned up when your done soaking. Dirty evaporust will gray the wood and make it look more aged. Leaving it in too long will make the wood sticky.


----------



## bandit571

Those pins only go in from one side, and not all the way through. IF you can grab the end of the pin, give it a few twists, and then pull them out. IIRC….one pin goes in from each side. On the 45 I have, I was able to push the pin back in, and then a nailset to finish setting it tight. Might give that a try. Maybe a pair of diagonal wire cuter pliers to just barely dig in enough to grab the pin, lever it out a bit, then finally pull the pin out?


----------



## DLK

Thanks Bandit for the correction. I hope that will work for him. I guess it is, but I don't see how that would be be a very secure way to hold the scales on. I'm a little surprised it is so.


----------



## WhoMe

Thank you guys. Good stuff on the evaporust combo. I'm not too worried on saving the handle other than to use it as a pattern to make another. So I went to trey to keep it as intact as possible.
Since the plane is missing the front knob already, I'm going to make new ones like other LJ's did in the band plane forum. I need to make the fence wood also. I was thinking a nice oily wood like lignum or bocote. I will have to see what I can find at work. But I'm still undecided. 
Bandit, thanks on the pin info. I didn't know they were that easy to remove. Well, hopefully they are.. I have some ideas now on how to remove them without drilling them out.


----------



## Tim457

Just like a knife scale, if you split it cleanly in half with say a chisel along the grain, you can just join the two halves back together to use as a template. Not great if you want to reuse them, but fine if you don't.


----------



## terryR

I think Stanley attached the wooden handle differently through the types; some are pinned from opposite sides, some all the way through. This is from reading on sawmillcreek, NOT my experience since I only own ONE 45 plane.

Mos?

But, in any case, if you just want to remove the wooden parts, and not re-use them or the pins, any removal method should work. Punch the pins out, drill the pins out.

I would use NEW stainless pins upon re-assembly to prevent rust. Epoxied in place, just like the wooden scales. If that doesn't last 100 years, send it to me for the next restore.


----------



## Mosquito

I'll have to go through and check to verify, but don't recall any of them being all the way through, but I do know that the arrangement of the pins was different between certain types.

On type 1 they were a single pin in the middle of the tote on the right (depth stop/sitter) side.

They switched to a single pin in the middle on the left side of the tote during Type 2.

By Type 8 (possibly as early as Type 5, though I'd guess more likely Type 7) they switched to a pin in the upper and lower area of the tote on the left side, which is how it stayed up through Type 17 (end of production)

I'll have to verify when they switched to the 2-pin arrangement, as I don't have pictures of my Type 7 uploaded yet, so i can't check.


----------



## Mosquito

For visuals


----------



## bandit571

Quite awhile ago, before this thread was born…DonW post a thread about how he rehabbed a 45….including the tote. IIRC, the pins only just barely touch the other side of the tote, mainly just through the one side, and ito a hole in the casting. Pins are almost like a finish nail in shape, they do go through the hole in the casting, and just a little bit into the wood on the other side.

maybe DonW would care to post about his work with the tote on a #45….


----------



## Mosquito

> By Type 8 (possibly as early as Type 5, though I'd guess more likely Type 7) they switched to a pin in the upper and lower area of the tote on the left side
> 
> - Mosquito


I can now confirm that it was indeed type 7 when they started using 2 pins instead of 1


----------



## donwilwol

I knew there were some differences in how different vintages were attached but I didn't know when or how.


----------



## donwilwol

for the next time you need it, (thanks Mos)

http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/12/02/i-need-to-remove-the-handle-on-my-old-stanley-45/


----------



## WhoMe

Don, bandit, thanks. I thought Don did a post on the 45 handle but I could not find it in my search. So I gave up and posted here. 
I do find it interesting that the handle shape seems to have stayed essentially the same thorough out the production of the 45.


----------



## Mosquito

There are more variations than you might think, but the tote always stayed at the back and tote shaped lol

There were 6 iterations to the totes that I'm aware of, 3 of which are above. Type 7 was the major overhaul (when the knob went to the fence) that got rid of the bottom horn, and type 14 beefed up the top horn a little more, and type 16 a little more, and then finally Type 17 was a bit more after that. In my opinion each progressive iteration of the tote got less attractive, visually.

Too bad the Type 1 #45's didn't match the Type 1 #46 tote lol


----------



## WillliamMSP

Now that I've found out what the slitting blade is for, it has dawned on me that my Craftsman/Sargent 1080 doesn't accommodate a slitting blade. But now I want one, of course. Also, turns out that my previous Fulton/Sargent wasn't a 1080 clone - the main body was a 1085 clone, which does accommodate a slitting blade. Too bad I knocked it off the bench and broke the thing so many months ago.


----------



## WhoMe

Wow, talk about being educated. Lots of great info on this thread lately. 
Thanks Mos. No kidding on the #46 tote. But can you imagine how though it would be to find intact ones without the broken horns? There is nothing there to protect it like a hand plane has.
But, that is so graceful, I may look into making a horn like that when I make my new handle. Might be fun.


----------



## Mosquito

I like answering questions rather than going on about stuff. When it's a question it's at least something someone is looking for lol

And absolutely on the tote. No reason you can't do whatever shape you want on yours. I've actually never removed the tote from a #45 yet, but I may on my Type 11, just to ease the clean up process of it. Would probably put the original tote. Not sure I'll keep that one yet or not.


----------



## bandit571

Thinking about how often I would need a fluting cutter like say a #31 up to a #36? At about $12 a cutter, might be a need only. Already have that 3/4" fluting cutter I made. Not sure how much I would actually use any of the others…

Same with those reeding cutters….is there a certain size and number that would get used enough?


----------



## Mosquito

I've only ever used a fluting cutter once, and it was a 3/16" I made from a spare straight iron for a specific task


----------



## WhoMe

Yea, too bad the handle can't come off like a bench plane. It would be much easier to clean and restore these type of planes.


----------



## Mosquito

The latest addition to the collection arrived today


----------



## WillliamMSP

Ooooh - that's blingy-blingy. What's the story with it?


----------



## CL810

Great find Chris. This is probably a stupid question, but what does the E in '45E' on the box represent?


----------



## theoldfart

Export I think.


----------



## Mosquito

It's a Type 21, and I found it on ebay shortly after it listed. I didn't really want to pay the full price (didn't have the money in my "hobby" account for the asking, after just buying a jointer), so I threw an offer in that I felt was fair, but still slightly in my favor. It was about $50 below asking, so I was sort of preparing for the offer to be declined or countered, and have to figure out. To my delight, the offer was accepted, and it shipped the next morning 

The Type 21's were the ones with a box marked 45E, otherwise there were no discernible differences from a Type 15 as far as the plane goes. They were made around 1938, as they all included manuals dated for 1938. Kevin is correct, in that they were made for export to England, before Stanley started making planes over there. They're pretty scarce, since the box is the only thing that changed.


----------



## WhoMe

Wow, that's just so cool!


----------



## WillliamMSP

Well, it's a very cool box and the plane looks like it's in beautiful shape. That plating looks like it's almost got a champagne hue to it, more so than I've seen IRL - is the photo color temp pretty accurate?


----------



## Mosquito

Not really, I don't think. I had the settings a little off on the camera, and had to bump the exposure in post. Because of that, the box started to get washed out, so I tried to bring that back a little with saturation and vibrance. I'll try to get a picture of just the plane tonight, with less fiddling


----------



## bandit571

Meh…









Still sitting around the shop…









Original box for the Roxton Pond, QUE., Canada SW Type 20.

USPS used the package as a football…..not sure IF it is repairable….









Holders for most of the cutters. Not sure why Stanley had this 1x down the center..









Made a reproduction box to house the plane, wondering what to do with the old box..


----------



## DanKrager

A 45 dipped in champagne? Never thought of that!

Merry Christmas, Mos! Nice find.

DanK


----------



## Mosquito

lol that could be interesting Dan. I know I've brass brushed cast iron when it was warm and had the cast iron turn sort of a champagne color, wonder if one could do the same with a #45 (of course, removing the plating first would make it possible)

I'm still on the look out for the right Types 5, 6, and 10 to add as well. Types 5 and 6 are easy to spot at a glance, but Type 10 is all about the trademark stamp. Good news is they're not as rare as the Aluminum plane or this 45E, both of which I've now got, but I've just not come across the right deals on any yet.


----------



## bandit571

Guess I'll just use the old box to hold the Dremel stuff in…...saves me from building a box for the dremel stuff…..

Not sure what these two holes were for…









Something that needed to sit in a hole?


----------



## WhoMe

Well, took the handle off the 45 today. Couldn't remove the pins from the visible side without a lot of material removed from the handle. So I drilled some small holes on the other side and used a small drift punch to drive the pins out. Once the handle was off, I found 2 thin sheets of paper folded over the plane handle used as shims to make sure the handle was tight on the plane before the pins were inserted. Also, the pins went through the visible side and about 50% into the non visible side of the handle. Not sure who else has seen that but it is what I figured. Now the plane and all its parts are in a bath of evaporust.
Now to decide the wood for the handle, knob and fence. I think I will try for that #46 handle shape Mos posted above.


----------



## Mosquito

good to hear Mike!


----------



## WhoMe

Mos,I have noticed several differences between my project plane in working on and my newer sweetheart one. Such as the micro adjustable fence and the knob is held onto the fence piece by a stud and a nut like a bench plane. On the older one, the knob threads onto the fence on what appears to be a threaded insert. Having that insert type threading will make the creation of the knob differences than my newer one. I was planning to use my as plane knob as a template but now I'm not sure the knobs are the same.
Mos, since you probably have the the 7-8 in your col!ection, is it possible, when you get time, to post a shot of the knob so I can see any differences.
I did find on the top of page 21 you posted what looks to be a type 8. It does have the basic shape of the later knobs but it is hard to tell. So any additional info would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Mosquito

Correct, for type 7 when they first put the knob on the fence, they switched to a threaded knob rather than a mounting post and barrel nut like the earlier and later models. I believe this was continued through type 11, and switched back for type 12. I'll have to look into that more, as I'm not sure.

The problem I have is that many of my pictures at the moment are for documentation purposes. That is to say, so that I can look it up if I happen across a good deal on a plane in good shape. I can look up what I've got (what shape the example of that type I've got is in), so I don't have all the angles of all of them yet that I do for some. With that said, I don't yet have pictures of my Type 7, but here are some of my various Type 8s.


----------



## WhoMe

Mos, thanks for the great pictures. That helps a lot. Any idea why some have more details at the base than others. It looks like there is a smooth base, a single bump base and a double base.

And, I have been looking at different woods and I just realized earlier that the grain direction goes vertically on the knob and horizontally on the handle. Which has cancelled out a couple wood pieces because the handle grain would have been vertical. Which is bad for the handle horn. Just like horizontal grain would probably be bad for the knob because it threads on to the fence. If it was a stud and a barrel nut, it probably wouldn't make much difference.
So, because of the wood pieces I have to choose from, osage orange is out (grain direction), zebra (expense and grain direction), black and white ebony (grain direction). So, I'm now looking at bubinga, wenge, maybe purple heart and not sure what else right now. I just want to do something different. I kind of want something with some nice grain structure.


----------



## MNclone

The threads are stripped out on one of my fence knobs. Any suggestions on a proper fix?


----------



## bandit571

Helio-Koil…

New handle wood? Maybe a slab of Cocobolo? But, then it would like like it was made by Millers Falls…..

maybe some figured Walnut, instead?


----------



## saddletramp

Mike …..... birdseye maple


----------



## bandit571

using a cam rest..









Normally, I try to keep the plane clear of shavings….tends to clog up, otherwise…









Was making grooves so I could split off the top from the box, and leave a lip for the lid to close up on. 









Tongue for a T&G corner joint.









Looks better than just a screwed together butt joint….


----------



## DanKrager

Bandit, did you use the slitter to split off the top?

I saw a tip a while back, can't remember where now, about making a box with a rabbeted lid by cutting a rabbet like you did before assembly. Then, after the box is assembled, rabbet off the lid being careful to cut below (towards the bottom) the interior rabbet and just deep enough to separate the lid. With the tiniest bit of touch up it worked beautifully and was perfect fit.

DanK


----------



## bandit571

Basically, I just cut two grooves that overlapped just a hair. I could then fine tune things with a smaller plane. 

















I could test fit as I went along, just stack the two "halves" up to check for any gaps..

Part of the problem with this box, the panel for the lid sat in a rebate around the top of the lid..









I think I came close to what the OEM box was..









New box, sitting in front of the old box, as for the panel in the lid?









Panel is nailed in place, no glue.


----------



## WhoMe

Saddle tramp, hadn't thought of that but I'll have to look at the woods. Pretty sure I don't have access to some 8/4 birdseye. And I would prefer not to laminate the wood for the knob. But I'll still look. Thanks for the idea.


----------



## WhoMe

Check out this old Sigley. 45 style plane. Looks pretty cool


----------



## bandit571

^ Wonder IF any of the Stanley cutters would fit? At least the non-notched older ones? Would be nice to set it and a 45 to do a tongue & groove joint….just switch from one plane to the other.


----------



## donwilwol

be very very careful. Siegley can be very addictive.

That Siegley will probably go in the $150+ range since it has cutters. Anything less would be great deal.

I don't know why Stanley cutters wouldn't work, but I have tried it.


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## bandit571

Went and looked at it, and saw a Stanley #45 listed as well…..SW, 1929, made in USA. Otherwise identical to my Roxton Pond version, right down to the wood box. He is only asking $503, PLUS shipping…....


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That Siegley is a nice looking plough plane, Don.


----------



## Mosquito

Awesome Don. A Siegley is on my eventual list, but haven't pulled the trigger on any yet. Would rather finish off the #45s first.


----------



## donwilwol

I'd like to find an earlier one. Someday.


----------



## Peteybadboy

Could you tell what year this is? What it might be worth? The box is made of metal. I have never seen one like it.


----------



## Johnny7

looks like a type 13-15 due to the sweetheart logo (so roughly 1920-35)
also, check the copyright on the instructions-sometimes useful as a guide to age


----------



## Mosquito

Petey, if you had a better picture of the trademark stamp I could confirm, but with that metal box, that cutter box, and a SW logo it's most likely a Type 15, which was made from 1923-1935.

I've often seen those, with a box go for around $140-$160 or so, depending on what the condition is like on everything


----------



## Peteybadboy

Mosquito, Here you go!









And Thanks in advance


----------



## Mosquito

Yup, that's indeed the Type 15 trademark


----------



## CL810

Has anyone ever seen a cutter like this in your 45 or 55 sets?


----------



## Mosquito

nope, looks custom or poorly sharpened over a period of time to me lol If it works and the profile it creates looks good though, no reason not to use it though


----------



## Tim457

I looked through the 55 manual at the regular and special cutter profiles and none matched. Custom cutter seems reasonable since it's not that close to any in the manual to be just badly sharpened.


----------



## Mosquito

that's kind of my thinking too Tim. At first I was thinking it may have been a round with bead poorly sharpened, but then re-looked at the picture and it almost looks like 2 beads, which would be hard to add by accident when sharpening


----------



## CL810

I couldn't find a match either. I think whoever started out with a straight cutter. I'm gonna have to find time to play with it.


----------



## FrankonThetis

Christmas present from my son. Type 7 or 8 complete except for the hollow & rounds which he believes the PO may have somewhere. PO note 2 93 [presume his purchase date] on fence says type 7 or 8. Made up another cutter box to hold extras.



























Hope this worked, first time loading pictures


----------



## CL810

Frankon, you have a very good son indeed. Hope the PO has the H & R's.


----------



## Mosquito

Tough to see what's going on with that fence, but it looks like a Type 8 (if it says TRADE45MARK on it) Looks like a great one, and a set of H&Rs would be killer. Congrats


----------



## FrankonThetis

Yes CL810 very lucky to have a great son. We both like restoring and using hand tools. The fellow he got it from is an old time collector and just started to sell his collection off. Another trip to see what extras he has hanging around for the 45. We are starved in this neck of the woods for vintage equipment at reasonable prices.
It does say Trade45Mark Mos but seems to be really faded. Have really enjoyed this thread Mos and read all posts from #1 on. Plan to watch your demonstrations again now that have cleaned all the blades of rust and getting ready to use. A few look like they might have secondary bevels. Is this normal?


----------



## Mosquito

it's normal enough. It's all down to how people prefer to sharpen. As long as it's sharp, and is at a lesser angle than the incline of the bed for the iron it doesn't make much difference, really.


----------



## bandit571

I may be having a use for the sash cutter, as I am building a frame and panel sided case. The panels are just 1/4" plywood, but the rails and stiles need a rebate and a molding to go around the panels. Panels get nailed and glued in place. Cutter would be run on the edge of the stock, instead of the face. Hope to make a trial run later next week….


----------



## rhybeka

Sweet! would love to see it, Bandit!

I was looking for parts for a stanley 98 my dad gave me (I'm a bit scared when he starts handing me things from his shop as I never know what he's dug up), and stumbled on a micro adjusting fence from the same seller. I swear we discussed them at some point - or I was 'listening into' a conversation Mos was having about them and was wondering if I should pick this one up? The price is decent - guess I should verify it will work with my type of 45 as well.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

A Stanley #98 is a side rabbet plane, what you missing?

A 'micro adjustable fence' isn't something you'll agonize over not having, IMHO. The rods never changed, so it'd certainly work with your type. It'd likely make yours a frankenplane, but that's not a big issue either.


----------



## bandit571

Beka: IF you want, I can lend you my fence for a while, to try out.


----------



## rhybeka

Thanks Bandit, but I ended up buying the one I was looking at - something about when you request a total on eBay that binds you to buying the items and me not reading close enough before clicking ok. I think it's missing a screw or two but I need to look at Patricks B&G again anyway. I also got a lever cap for the 98 that was missing - had to order the blade from someone else - but the lever cap appears to be a smidge too big even though B&G says the lever caps on a 79 are interchangeable with the 98's. Looks like I may be guilty of mis-reading or not reading again!


----------



## bandit571

Beka: You will need a few more bolts, for that to work..









And a casting. This is what a complete fence should look like. 









The center hole on yours is for an adjuster, to micro adjust the fence in or out.









Might see IF Eric has the rest of the parts, at nhplaneparts…....


----------



## Mosquito

> Thanks Bandit, but I ended up buying the one I was looking at - something about when you request a total on eBay that binds you to buying the items and me not reading close enough before clicking ok. I think it s missing a screw or two but I need to look at Patricks B&G again anyway. I also got a lever cap for the 98 that was missing - had to order the blade from someone else - but the lever cap appears to be a smidge too big even though B&G says the lever caps on a 79 are interchangeable with the 98 s. Looks like I may be guilty of mis-reading or not reading again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - rhybeka


If you don't mind a broken fence, I've got one that's repaired well (works fine, just isn't as "pretty" anymore). Still needs the screw for moving the fence though, I think. I'd have to check on that, but it's the one that was on my main user #45 until I finally replaced it. I could dig it out and get a better picture of it if you're interested


----------



## rhybeka

I didn't realize I was lacking so many parts or I would've left it. I need to start using the plane but I'm fairly certain the fence will be a pretty big asset to me. @Mos I'm not really worried about pretty just functional and it appears all I have currently is a nice piece of rosewood with some metal attached 

EDIT: Think I found the other casting! http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fence-Stanley-No-45-Nickel-Plated-w-Thumbscrews-Micro-Adjusting-Screw-G782-/172474120687?hash=item28284239ef:gc0AAOSw9GhYbkwx

...so when you add the fence I bought, plus the casting, plus the adjuster screw - that's the /whole/ micro adjusting fence?


----------



## bandit571

Needing to make a fancy edge on a project coming up. Figured I could use a sash cutter to do the job….so..









Laid out some parts…









Installed the short rods, and the cutter. Cutter had a slight bow to it, made it a bit rough to..









Install the sliding stock. Might have the wrong length rods onboard, for when I installed the fence…









The thumbscrews just barely made it. ( screwdriver is a Millers Falls, standing in for a Stanley one)

May go back and install the longer rods. Molded edge will be on a 4/4 thick board, will go along the edges as needed.

Drawer making for the project will include a groove for drawer bottoms, and a dado for the backs to reside in, I think I might have a cutter or two for those jobs. Just waiting on the wood to arrive.


----------



## Mosquito

> EDIT: Think I found the other casting! http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fence-Stanley-No-45-Nickel-Plated-w-Thumbscrews-Micro-Adjusting-Screw-G782-/172474120687?hash=item28284239ef:gc0AAOSw9GhYbkwx
> 
> ...so when you add the fence I bought, plus the casting, plus the adjuster screw - that s the /whole/ micro adjusting fence?
> 
> - rhybeka


When you add what you already have, with that casting and adjustment screw, then all you're missing is the knob (and the post/nut for holding it on) and the locking screw, which is one of these two (If you care which is the "correct" one for which fence, if the locking screw goes on the front of the fence like the one you posted, it's the second screw, if it's on the top of the fence (above the adjusment screw) then it's the second, but both should work in either).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Slotted-Stanley-No-45-No-55-LOCKING-SCREW-Micro-Adjusting-Fence-Top-F283-/172454224881?hash=item282712a3f1:g:L-4AAOSwaB5XvDQX

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HTF-Stanley-No-45-55-LOCKING-SCREW-Micro-Adjusting-Left-Fence-Side-Type-G787-/172474124506?hash=item28284248da:g:fVEAAOSwImRYbk1y

Knob:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rosewood-Front-Knob-Stanley-No-45-Left-Fence-with-Hardware-G785-/172474176882?hash=item2828431572:g:TfcAAOSwEzxYblgc


----------



## GlenintheNorth

I'm definitely down for some sash action. I just got a #2 reversed sash cutter so I'm all about checking out what others do with them.


----------



## bandit571

As soon as I can get some 4/4 stock milled up, I might get busy with this sash cutter. IF I watch how the grain goes as I mill them up, I should be able to run the plane. Will post something when I get done. Needs to be a shallow setting to get it to work?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Not wispy but shallow, yes. Good luck and post pics.


----------



## bandit571

Camera issues today, may wind up with a new one later today…..so far..









Not the best camera focus….I did finish up one part









Only need nine more…..might take a while….may get the long rods after all, and set a bit more of the roundover into the molding.


----------



## rhybeka

> EDIT: Think I found the other casting! http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fence-Stanley-No-45-Nickel-Plated-w-Thumbscrews-Micro-Adjusting-Screw-G782-/172474120687?hash=item28284239ef:gc0AAOSw9GhYbkwx
> 
> ...so when you add the fence I bought, plus the casting, plus the adjuster screw - that s the /whole/ micro adjusting fence?
> 
> - rhybeka
> 
> When you add what you already have, with that casting and adjustment screw, then all you re missing is the knob (and the post/nut for holding it on) and the locking screw, which is one of these two (If you care which is the "correct" one for which fence, if the locking screw goes on the front of the fence like the one you posted, it s the second screw, if it s on the top of the fence (above the adjusment screw) then it s the second, but both should work in either).
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Slotted-Stanley-No-45-No-55-LOCKING-SCREW-Micro-Adjusting-Fence-Top-F283-/172454224881?hash=item282712a3f1:g:L-4AAOSwaB5XvDQX
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HTF-Stanley-No-45-55-LOCKING-SCREW-Micro-Adjusting-Left-Fence-Side-Type-G787-/172474124506?hash=item28284248da:g:fVEAAOSwImRYbk1y
> 
> Knob:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rosewood-Front-Knob-Stanley-No-45-Left-Fence-with-Hardware-G785-/172474176882?hash=item2828431572:g:TfcAAOSwEzxYblgc
> 
> - Mosquito


Thanks Mos! The breakdown helps a bunch. Ugh. I need the knob on that one and the other skate - I was going to make them out of lignum vitae (because I picked up a hunk of it from the woodwerks scrap pile) but hadn't gotten around to figuring out if or how to thread it properly.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

The good news is that is the right knob and the price is OK. The better news is that most of the knobs you'll find on that site are the right one 

I went looking for the screw-on knob for my type 7B and people wanted $30 for it. So I ended up picking up a lot o parts for $20 that had a fence with the right knob. I commandeered it. The one you need is the least expensive one.

You need a sliding skate? I might have an extra. I don't think it has a nicker though.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

@bandit: that's a pretty thick piece of sash..is it really for a pane of glass or is it for someing similar?


----------



## bandit571

Making a Frame & Panel sided Chest of Drawers. The piece in the picture will connect two corner posts. Where glass might have gone, now a plywood panel will be. Chest of Drawers will be for my shop, to store all the boxed items, and extra tools. Used to do this with a corded router…..now a days….I use what I have.


----------



## Mosquito

> The good news is that is the right knob and the price is OK. The better news is that most of the knobs you ll find on that site are the right one
> - GlenintheNorth


Ain't that the truth… they're expensive because they break or strip out so often, people need them. I've got a Type 7 in need of a knob, but rather than spending $25-$35 on the knob (the plane ended up being free after I sold the other stuff that came with it), I opted to instead call it my "dedicated hollow and round plane", so I just skip the fence all together lol

@Bandit, how did it work? It looks like it must have worked fairly well


----------



## bandit571

Grain was the tricky part. Needed a bit of clean up afterwards. Maybe the next few will get better. Have a bunch of these to do, so maybe I can get a bit better with all the practice going on. Might need to hone the back a bit more, too. Will post the next ones as they get done.

Chest of Drawer: Drawer building using a Stanley 45. Plough and dados. I'll need to do a rebate for the case's back to sit into…...might get out that HUGE Filister cutter for that….this might be fun to build….


----------



## Mosquito

the tough part with something like cutting sash is that you pretty much have to pick the lesser of 2 evils as far as grain goes. You're stuck having to go against the grain on at least one of the two sides.

I've sometimes wondered if something like a 55° #45 would be helpful for tough or figured grain… Would be interesting, but not sure I'd want to try modifying one lol


----------



## bandit571

Trying to use quarter sawn stuff, to see IF it helps. First I need to surface a few more blanks S4S and see how things go. Would have been nice to use Poplar, but….I have to use what I have on hand…

Some were talking about adding a "back bevel" to ease tear out. Derek Cohen thinks it helps with the beading cutters….


----------



## Mosquito

Back bevel would be essentially the same thing as a higher bed angle, just more annoying to sharpen, in my opinion. I'm not sure why the beading cutters would benefit from it specifically…


----------



## bandit571

They had a big old "fight" about it over on SawMill Creek awhile back. Claimed it helped with the hard woods Derek uses. Haven't see any benefit of doing it, for the woods I use. I just make sure the backs are flat, and that is where I sharpen them. I don't even tough the profiled areas.

Biggest thing with that sash cutter…it wanted to pull towards the fence, forcing the fence away from the wood. Had to really push against the fence area, to keep things going straight.


----------



## Mosquito

I could see that lol I take a similar approach, I clean up the profile/bevel, just so it's clean and somewhat polished (usually just use pieces of dowel rods wrapped with sand paper, and go up to about 1000 grit). After that I very very rarely touch that side again.


----------



## theoldfart

Yup, these things are fun









Made short work of this white oak. The next step will be "fun". Theses will be spline mitred so a groove ninety degrees to the bevel. Working on a jig now.

Note: do not do this


----------



## Mosquito

Roy did a video about one way to do it Kevin, on "11 Groove Box". The miters were put back to back (so there was a 90 degree angle formed by the two), and then you use one of the miters for referencing the fence off of.

That probably didn't make any sense lol

@around 12 minutes
http://www.pbs.org/video/2263884494/


----------



## bandit571

LOL: That is why I keep mine in the box.

The hard part for me will be setting up for a few dados…...have to get the nickers turned down…


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Haha!

Tof if those cutters need a good home I have a box they'd fit in


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, they were in a box. I dropped it with all the regular and special cutters in it :-(. I haven't used the nickers for dados. I make a saw kerf on either side and plow out the middle.

Sorry Glenn, they are spoken for (by me)

Mos, that is BRILLIANT. I was overthinking and over engineering it. The pic says it all so you saved me a ton of time. Thanks for posting.


----------



## Mosquito

I have yet to try it myself, but I have been thinking about trying it. Could use a couple boxes like that around the shop.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

> Sorry Glenn, they are spoken for (by me)


Can't blame a guy for trying 



> Mos, that is BRILLIANT. I was overthinking and over engineering it. The pic says it all so you saved me a ton of time. Thanks for posting.


Seconded. Roy is canonized prehumously for a reason! I have been pondering how to spring a 45, now I know.


----------



## theoldfart

Glen, just to keep the record straight Mos's 45's aren't the only game in town. Mine is a Record 405 and it has a British accent, blimey!


----------



## bandit571

And mine is a Canadian 45…....but a sweetheart of a plane…


----------



## theoldfart

Moss, did a quick test and your(and St Roys) idea worked great. I'll have pics tonight.


----------



## Mosquito

I take no credit for the idea, I only take credit for remembering Roy's video lol Glad it worked out for you, and I look forward to pictures


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I watched that episode last night, it was awesome. But Kevin, have you also made the little oak block for spline adjustments? That's a project all by itself. Excellent to have on hand if there are lots of splined boxes in your future though.


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, I need to make that gauge block tonight.


----------



## bandit571

Ok, in trying to use that sash cutter tonight…..for some reason both skates are out in mid-air? I checked the bevel on the cutter…..meh…has a bit of a round bevel..like this…) Will need to go and flatten that bevel out. After a few trips on the second blank, found out the depth stop had came off….

Will go back down tomorrow, and tune the plane and cutter up, a bit too sore tonight for anymore "fun" in the shop…









We'll see what we can do…


----------



## WhoMe

Making progress on the wood parts. Knob and fence made, handle in progress, all out of bubinga. It has been fun. Unfortunately the knob is from a different board it is more Brown compared to the handle and fence which have more Orange/red in them. 









Have more shaping on handle then finish. Debating on using the original pins or go with something brass like flat head machine screws for a different look. Hmmm


----------



## rhybeka

/sigh/ missed the fence knob auction. going to jump on the screw and the casting though.

Nice work Mike!! that's a really pretty handle!


----------



## Mosquito

Looks good Mike!


----------



## WhoMe

Thanks guys. I ended up drilling the hole in the knob and tapped it with a 7/16×14 tap to establish some kind of threads then slowly worked the knob on the threaded post of the fence. I used slottted brass countersink screws cut shorter for attaching the wood to the fence. 
The handle has been the most time consuming. Lots of work to fit it to the body. 
Mos, I didn't go quite the look of that type 1 #46 you posted earlier but as you can see, I have it with more of a horn. I like the look. 
Now if I could figure out how to refresh the nickel plating…


----------



## rhybeka

thinking I'm going to have to make a 1/2" ply box with some scraps I've managed to accumulate. is it ok to work these blades through ply?


----------



## theoldfart

You could but ply does not play well with planes in general. Be sure to score the ply first. It will splinter readily. Also your cutters will dull pretty quickly from the glue in the ply.


----------



## Mosquito

Yup, no reason you can't, but like Kevin said, it does like to splinter, and blow out on the exit side is also an issue, in addition to the dulling effect he mentioned.

Basically, I agree with Kevin


----------



## bandit571

"Beer Belly" on the cutter's bevels has now been flattened. Honed to 2.5K. Dremel sanding wheel to dress up (LIGHTLY) the curved part. Long rods installed, fence is in a better location. Skates are now supporting the cuts. 









Much easier to push along. Skates were a bit chewed up, used a 1K grit stone to dress them up a bit. They are nice and smooth along the edges. Waxed the skates, and the fence. Much better results, now.

Shavings now pile up inside the skates, meaning I have to stop and clear things out. Instead of little chips, I now get these long ribbons, and they just ball up. 









Still takes a couple other planes to clean things up, just not near as bad as before. Almost fun to use, now.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, shavings building up is a relatively common problem that I've run into as well. Sometimes speed solves it, but you're effectively pushing 2 shavings with that cutter, and things tend to get jumbled up together. Good to hear the tune-up worked well. I think the most important thing with the sash and tongue irons is that both sides are the same length, otherwise you have to have one side with a much heavier cut just to get the opposite side engaged at all


----------



## bandit571

LOTS of shavings going on…









Profile needed a little help, though.
.








That little "tear-out" was there from the crosscut saw.


----------



## rhybeka

guess I'll use the rabbet plane or just chisel. I may also have some scrap pieces of pine I could joint and use. Will have to brave the cold and go look once it's light out.


----------



## bandit571

Dungeon Shop has heat. Welcome to come on over and try the plane out..


----------



## bandit571

Well, about ready for the next time in the shop….









have these rails to do, and a couple more posts to do…getting closer to drawer making day..


----------



## WillieMcCoy

I hope I'm not breaking any forum rules (new member) but I've got a Sargent 1080 up for sale on ebay.

It needs restoration as I make clear in the listing.

The auction ends Wednesday.

The link is http://www.ebay.com/itm/232200172697?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


----------



## Johnny7

^ I believe this belongs in the Trade & Swap forum

If we all starting posting tools we'd like to sell (in that tool's specific forum), then pretty soon, we'll all be slogging through nothing but ads.


----------



## johnstoneb

WM
You're OK posting the link here but more people might see it in the tools and swap area.


----------



## bandit571

Have a couple rebates to do…..1/4" deep, by 3/4" wide, by 42" long. To house the plywood back on the dresser build going on. I have a few wide cutters for the No. 45…but, I also have a Wards No. 78 ( Stanley made)

Trying to decide which plane to use. May give both a try-out, to see which one works best…..

Any thoughts?


----------



## Mosquito

Whichever one is sharper lol I've had good luck with both my #45 and #78 for rebates. I also like using the #46 as well… or just a rabbet plane


----------



## bandit571

I'll give both a try out, maybe tomorrow. Depends on which way the grain is running, too.

How wide a cutter for the 45?


----------



## Mosquito

I usually aim for the next size up from what I'm cutting. So if I'm cutting 3/4" I'll use 13/16", unless you don't have that one, then the 1-1/4" fillester iron instead. I just prefer as small of an overshoot as I can, just so I don't dull one side of the iron more than the rest of it is all


----------



## bandit571

Ok, thanks. I do have the next size up. Will dig it out and get it ready in the morning…


----------



## bandit571

Ok, results of the Great Rebate Contest. #45 vs #78

I went ahead and just sharpened both cutters up. I used the #17 cutter for the Stanley #45. A 3/4" wide rebate would have been a bit too wide, so I set things up for a 1/4" deep, by 1/2" wide cut. As there was two planes, I used one on each of the dresser's sides. mainly to house a plywood back for the dresser. 
First up..









Was this side. I used the Wards #78 for this one..









While it made a lot of shavings..









I found it a bit hard to hold onto. Had to keep an eye out as it wanted to lean a bit to the outside…Rebate didn't look too bad, though..









Next was the Stanley#45..









And the second dresser side.









Main problem here was the two knots, as the cutter wanted to chatter going over them. 









Both planes seemed to do ok, the 45 was easier to hold onto, is all. 









Left thumb is voting for this plane.


----------



## DLK

I think the Sargent 79 with the horn on the fore end might be easier to hold onto then the the Stanley 78.


----------



## bandit571

There isn't much of a spot for my thumb to go on the #78..









As that area where the bullnose's bolt is, just digs into my thumb. Any further back, and shavings will hit the thumb.

But, it was good i had gotten the 78 out of it's box. It was getting a few blooms of rust. So it got cleaned up AND sharpened up today.


----------



## Mosquito

Interesting results. I'll see if I can dig my #78 out and get a picture of how I hold it, but I agree that it's a bit more awkward than holding the #45 for me as well.


----------



## DanKrager

Didn't I see somewhere here that some enterprising person put a knob on the front of the 78 using the bolt hole for the bull nose blade?

DanK


----------



## donwilwol

> Didn t I see somewhere here that some enterprising person put a knob on the front of the 78 using the bolt hole for the bull nose blade?
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


I'm not sure it was here, but I've seen it done that way as well.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Didn t I see somewhere here that some enterprising person put a knob on the front of the 78 using the bolt hole for the bull nose blade?
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager
> 
> I m not sure it was here, but I ve seen it done that way as well.
> 
> - Don W


The Woden W78 Duplex Rabbet Plane was a Stanley 78 knock-off that made 2 improvements. One was the knob on front and the other was 2 rods for the fence.









My Record 778 took the 2 rods from here but forgot the knob (damn). See here for more.









I have a new Stanley plane waiting for me in my mailbox.


----------



## Johnny7

> Didn t I see somewhere here that some enterprising person put a knob on the front of the 78 using the bolt hole for the bull nose blade?
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


I believe you're referring to this post:

http://lumberjocks.com/replies/2915562


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Have you ever sworn you were missing parts to something and spent time combing through listing for this or that just to find that, when you actually took a moment to do inventory, you had the whole set already and were looking for nothing?

I thought I was missing a plow cutter or two from the 45. Nope. Turns out I have everything it shipped with. Hot dog, y'all.

At the meet I'll be up for trades for a micro-adjust fence, beading cutter #29 and fluting and reeding cutters. I have #34, 36, and 38 on the way already (won a stupid cheap auction) but those are the last of the 45 cutters I'm missing. Now if only I had enough shop time to make a box…


----------



## Mosquito

Type 6 just showed up! down to 1 now…


----------



## GlenintheNorth

One type left to get?


----------



## Mosquito

Well, Technically 3, unless I try to pick up one of all the Canadian trademarked planes. I've got an A45, but no non-A aluminum #45, and type 18 according to most studies likely didn't exist, so just type 5 left otherwise


----------



## GlenintheNorth

How is there a type designation that doesn't exist…?


----------



## Mosquito

The thing is that it was referenced in a catalog listing, but the thought was it was never actually made. They were referenced in the No. 34 catalog in '61 and '62, but in early '61 they moved the plane manufacturing to Canada.

Also noting that 2 guys bought all the new old stock parts from planes Stanley never ended up finishing and there were completed type 17 style gold embossed rosewood handles.

It wouldn't really make sense for them to have finished rosewood handles in stock but produce the planes with hardwood handles anyway. The historic trends were usually some crossover between types as they were using up old parts.

At least such is the feeling of David Heckel, who has a pretty extensive type study on the #45


----------



## GlenintheNorth

I believe every manufacturer did that- use up old parts after a design change. I have a few very crazy cross-type Millers Falls bench planes that make no sense at all from a typing standpoint, almost as bad as Sargent!

Mine is a 7b B casting. It has been hard enough to complete this one so I definitely do not want to try for another!

Who am I kidding. I also have a type 3 that needs the rest of its parts.


----------



## bandit571

Maybe I should hide that Type 20 I have been using? SW, Roxton Pond, Que. Canada….....hmmm, nah, I still have a few jobs for it to do…..


----------



## bandit571

After a bunch of grooves were down ( for a drawer's bottom panel to sit in)









I lowered the spurs









And set up for this cut.









Back for the drawer needed a dado to be housed in,,,made a saw cut or two at the entrance and exit, and cut until the depth stops bottomed out..









Results?









A 3/8" deep dado, no blow outs allowed. Drawer back is also a 3/4" thick pine board. 
Saw cuts..









Were just at the edges, the entrance cut needed a little extra done..









To limit any damage for when I started cutting. Candle wax on the fence and the skates seemed to help. 









Been a busy morning…


----------



## DanKrager

That's way cool, Bandit. Thanks for sharing!

DanK


----------



## WayneC

I've been working on my combination planes lately….


----------



## GlenintheNorth

That thing is insane. I want all of it!


----------



## donwilwol

OK guys, what's it off,


----------



## bandit571

No. 55


----------



## Mosquito

yup, No. 55. That's the sliding skate, which can also be adjusted vertically


----------



## bandit571

Missing a thimble, too


----------



## rhybeka

@Don I have no idea 

how many tongue irons are there? I've only got one so I'm curious as to how many I'm lacking.


----------



## DLK

@rhybeka The 55 has two match cutters (tongue irons) 1/4" and 3/16"


----------



## bandit571

So does the #45…..and I have both on hand….


----------



## DLK

.... I have them each twice so there! (Well 3 times if you count the sargent.) LOL


----------



## Mosquito

^ I won't even go there… lol


----------



## DLK

^ ha ha ha


----------



## donwilwol

Not sure how I missed that. Thanks guys. Anybody need one?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Got the rest of the #55 to go with it? If so, yes.


----------



## DLK

yes.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

One day maybe soon, maybe not, I'll part together a 55. It's much cheaper than buying a complete one!


----------



## Mosquito

Hmmm… maybe. That moving skate isn't that cheap, and the carrier for the center skate can go for $60-$80 too. A full set of irons piece by piece isn't cheap either. #55's are tough to get into cheap, unless you're lucky. I was lucky to find my complete #55 and 4 box iron set for $120 BIN back when I did


----------



## donwilwol

Well I can say I don't need it and don't need to get $60 for.it either.


----------



## WillliamMSP

> I was lucky to find my complete #55 and 4 box iron set for $120 BIN back when I did
> 
> - Mosquito


A very belated 'you suck.'


----------



## Mosquito

That's not the section I was talking about, I meant the tower goes for $60-$80 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanley-No-55-Tower-Auxiliary-Center-Bottom-Angle-Iron-Nut-Thumbscrew-E468-/182450121408?hash=item2a7adfeac0:g:ncUAAOSwepJXYAcT










The moving section that you posted Don is more like a $20-$30 part



> A very belated you suck.
> 
> - WillliamMSP


lol I'll take it  That was back even when I still lived in my apartment, and I hadn't gotten quite so… into the #45s lol


----------



## DLK

> One day maybe soon, maybe not, I ll part together a 55. It s much cheaper than buying a complete one!
> 
> - GlenintheNorth


Depends where and from whom you buy it, but I can't claim I was as lucky as Mos. I paid $300 for one found in the wild. Complete with 4 boxes of cutters and the original instructions.


----------



## DLK

Here is an Early Stanley #55 combination plane set
with BIN = $195 + $28.39
Looks complete with 4 boxes of cutters
Needs a good cleaning.


----------



## donwilwol

Damn Mos,, and I already ordered the good beer!!


----------



## theoldfart

Don, he pulled it. error in listing!


----------



## DLK

^ too bad.


----------



## WayneC

I found my 55 cutters for $20 a box quite a while ago. I just got the plane recently. It was NOS with a full set of reeding cutters and other specialty cutters. It paired very good with what I had.

You just have to keep your eyes open. On a side note, I really blew my plane budget tonight. Bedrock 605 1/4 is heading my way.


----------



## bandit571

WayneC: Imagine walking into an auction tent like this with only a $10 bill …









Detail shot?









And all I get out of that days efforts?









Stanley #28 and #29 cost me $5….I had to walk a block to pick the Witherby…..


----------



## GlenintheNorth

> Hmmm… maybe. That moving skate isn t that cheap, and the carrier for the center skate can go for $60-$80 too. A full set of irons piece by piece isn t cheap either. #55 s are tough to get into cheap, unless you re lucky. I was lucky to find my complete #55 and 4 box iron set for $120 BIN back when I did
> 
> - Mosquito


There is a rash of them on eBay now for $20. I already have a tower I got in a lot of other stuff. It's rough, but it'll do the job once cleaned up I think.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

I realized I might have sent people clamoring for inexpensive 55 parts so I had to quickly go grab the one I'd been looking at!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I almost hit the BIN on that #55… wonder if he would have honored it?


----------



## Mosquito

I guess to me a "cheap part" is like $5 or less lol If someone were to be buying parts for #55 with the intention to eventually assemble all of them into a complete plane, the $20 for the moving skate, and the $60-$80 for the tower and you're only 2 parts in and $80-$100 after shipping and what not. Add irons, the main skate, rods, both fences, depth stops, etc and I think you'd end up spending just as much as a fair deal on a complete #55 (unless it has its original box, in which case forget that lol)

Also Smitty, I hate it when people cancel an order and then relist the item. Jim Bode (2lshark) has done that to me more than once after an auction closed, he canceled the order and a few days later relisted it starting at just over what the winning bid was before.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

If any dealer did that to me there would be issues. I'd get ebay involved and go public with the details.

Anyway, are the main stocks for the 45 and 55 not identical? The two tilting fences would be all I'd need for all of the 55 functionality! Beats the pants off of the minimum $150 for a 55 without cutters I've been seeing!


----------



## Mosquito

No, the rod spacing is wider on the #55 than the #45. I once wanted to use a #55 fence on my #45, which is why I checked.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

OooHH! Good to know!

55 main stocks aren't that bad either. The rods themselves are the same diameter though, correct ? That's how it appears in your picture.

Two fences at $30, a sliding section at $20, total $80, already have a tower, plus a main stock. Probably get that for around $25 from what I've seen. That brings me to about $125 sans shipping. Seems to be right about that $150, so potato, potato I guess.


----------



## Mosquito

Yes, rods are the same.

And don't forget your depth stops


----------



## GlenintheNorth

The ones from the 45 fit?


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, same depth stops all the way around


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Sweet. I'm 3 major parts away. Heh heh…


----------



## DLK

I wonder where you got all the extra money.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Haha I've only spent $20 on my new 55 
Er…20% of my new 55!


----------



## GlenintheNorth

55 main stock on its way. It has the long rods and looks like two of its stops. I have an extra beading stop anyway, and an extra slitter. $10.49 + $12 and change shipping. Call it 23 shipped.

So $25 or so with shipping for the sliding section and 23 for the main brings me to 48 roundabout total so far. I need the two fences and already have a tower. Going to try to complete the 55 without cutters for under $100 shipped.

Wish me luck.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice, should be doable if you've already got the tower I think


----------



## WhoMe

Waaa…. I decided to finally play around with my 45. Trying to learn the set up and adjustments.I first tried a beading cutter and learned that yes, indeed, shallow cuts are the rule. But then i tried a #12 straight cutter and learning what would be a good setting and then I felt something hit my shoe. I thought a scree came loose.
Nope… The cutter snapped. The end 1/4" inch broke off. I set the plane up such that both skates supported the edges of the cutter. And I was just cutting pine.
Anyone care to guess as to why might have happened? The cutter just snapped. Should i be checking anything on the plane? 
It has me scared to put any other cutter in it without advice. Thanks.


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, which end broke, bevel or the top?


----------



## GlenintheNorth

I would lean toward the cutter already having been cracked to begin with and/or improperly tempered. I'm not the most experienced with a 45, but I have a hard time believing that you and the plane combined can exert the forces necessary to break off any portion of it.

A too-hard, brittle iron can be cracked by as little as dropping it, but an iron that has been annealed properly after hardening is a tough chunk of steel indeed.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, something had to have been screwy with the iron. I've never had that happen to me before, and with the way the plane works I don't see how the plane would have done it to the iron


----------



## WhoMe

Oops, OF, it was the bevel end.
Thanks guys, that makes mgr feel better. And makes sense. In looking at the cutter, the fracture point does have a dull half and a shiney half. I'll try to post a pic later.
And is it my imagination that the adjuster pin does not fully engage with the notch in the cutters. Even when they are fully seated in the plane body.


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, that sounds like a previous injury! The adjuster pin sort of fits the slot on my Record, I assume it's the same for the other Stanley clones.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

It fits the slot on mine, but I never actually paid attention to how fully it engages.


----------



## theoldfart

By sort of I mean that there is play in the adjuster.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Mike, that sounds like a previous injury! The adjuster pin sort of fits the slot on my Record, I assume it s the same for the other Stanley clones.
> 
> - theoldfart


TOF - am I to understand that you are using Record cutters (for a 405?) in your Stanley 45? I'm curious because I have a Record 045C that does not have a 3/4" cutter made for it (that I know of), and would like to know if a Stanley cutter would fit/work.


----------



## theoldfart

Kent, I have a 405 along with a full compliment of cutters and two H&R's. The cutters, accessories, and parts are pretty much interchangeable with the 45. I can't tell you if the 045 cutters work with either the 405 or the 405.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Thanks. I had to ask.


----------



## theoldfart

Kent, post a close up pic of the cutter adjustment and the corresponding notch on the cutter itself. I'll see if it matches.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Thanks TOF. The Record 045C cutter is simply clamped from the side with this nut slid into the groove on the blade.









The slot is 0.1" wide and .188" (3/16") from the tail end of the cutter

















The cutters are 1/8" thick by whatever width and at least 3.5" long


----------



## bandit571

"play" with my type 20 No.45 is about 1/2 a pin's width. I guess to allow for any "shock" when you hit a knot, cutter can slip back a bit, without snapping the pin off. In theory….

Been using the heck out of my #12 cutter lately…...lot of drawers need grooves to house a lot of bottoms.


----------



## WhoMe

Here are my pics
The broken cutter, sorry, that was the best focus I could get.









And a pic of the pin semi engaging the cutter


----------



## donwilwol

Not sure this will work, but here is a #45 with a brass skate seem

https://m.facebook.com/groups/1410047249324398?view=permalink&id=1767533316909121


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Mike I'd call that a bum cutter. You got another one floating around? I would give another a shot in a test cut to assuage any doubts. They're kinda not supposed to break!

If you can adjust the depth screw all the way down and the broken end of the cutter will go past the end of the skate, you might be able to repair the edge and use it yet.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

> Not sure this will work, but here is a #45 with a brass skate seem
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/groups/1410047249324398?view=permalink&id=1767533316909121
> 
> - Don W


That's awesome; I want one all in brass with a steel skate now. So pretty….


----------



## theoldfart

Kent, I measured a 3/4" cutter and here's what I got.
3 1/2" long by 1/8" thick.
The notch is 3/32" wide by 1/8" deep and is 3/16" from the top.

The cutters from Stanley 45's and Record 405's should fit your plane. I'd be willing to lend you a cutter or two to test the fit if you want. Let me know via PM.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Thanks for the offer, Kevin. I'm declining it because:

I can buy from a Canadian eBay seller for about $16 to my door. In my experience, that's less than the cost to ship one of yours one-way to Canada, and I would still need to ship yours back;
I'm just not able to get enough done in the shop to be able to get around to checking that out, too; and
it's a pretty low priority right now (see above)


----------



## Tim457

Mike are we seeing a pin that is too big to fit in the slot? That's all I can see from that picture. What is your notch depth and pin diameter?


----------



## WhoMe

Tim, the pin is not too large. I tried to get an angle that shows the cutter fully seated in the body and how much or little the pin engages with the cutter notch. To me, only 40 - 50% of the pin engages with the cutter. It works but I would think the pin would engage further. Thus my question as I don't know.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

My 55 main stock arrived. I am pleased with it. It's just as grungy as the sliding section and completely unbroken.

But the wood color doesn't show in my pics. It's light colored, looks almost like a burl and in no way is it quartersawn. Each side has a split in it right across the middle. Fixable? Maybe. Not worried for ten bux plus shipping.

Mos, what type is a main stock with the #45 type 12 script style logo and wood that don't look like no rosewood I have ever seen?

Also, it came with long rods and…the 3/4 cutter.


----------



## Mosquito

Hmm, that I do not know actually. I'm not as into the #55's from that perspective as I am with #45's. They're outside my price range for the time being lol


----------



## GlenintheNorth

If you mean the same kind of 55 collection as the 45s you've got, yeah not many people I know really have the extra change to be pursuing that kind of iron!

Since the logo is the same as the 45 type 12, I'll assume that it's from the same time period.

In any case, I'm in the market for fences and ebay is just not on my level at the moment.

Oh, also the thumbscrew and washer to attach the tower, should be the same as the slitter screw that I'm also missing, as well as the slitter depth stop. I thought the beading stop was the same as the 45 but I discovered it's adjustable laterally. So that, too.

What else? There are a few tiny bits. I'll worry about them later. Estate sale season is almost upon is.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

If you mean the same kind of 55 collection as the 45s you've got, yeah not many people I know really have the extra change to be pursuing that kind of iron!

Since the logo is the same as the 45 type 12, I'll assume that it's from the same time period.

In any case, I'm in the market for fences and ebay is just not on my level at the moment.

Oh, also the thumbscrew and washer to attach the tower, should be the same as the slitter screw that I'm also missing, as well as the slitter depth stop. I thought the beading stop was the same as the 45 but I discovered it's adjustable laterally. So that, too.

What else? There are a few tiny bits. I'll worry about them later. Estate sale season is almost upon is.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, on the #45's the script logo puts it between 1910-1920, so I would assume similar as well.

I've got a broken right fence, if that helps


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Haha I forgot about that. It seems people think those left fences are made of gold or some other unobtainium I noticed. I'll probably have to pick them up as parts of cheap lots.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

I am about as patient as a hungry goat. Fences located and paid for. Without shipping, a presumably usable 55 was pieced together for the princely sum of $101. With shipping it ain't such a great deal.

But hey cool anyway.

I have one of the odd cutters, an ovolo with bead or quarter hollow with bead, I don't remember. It seems I get to futz with it soonish!


----------



## GlenintheNorth

This is what $101 bought. I still need two bolstered thumbscrews for the tower and slitter, a slitter stop, a skate depth stop, adjustable fence locking screw, and one of those cool adjustable beading stops. Oh, and a tower foot with screw. I think that's it beyond cutters.


----------



## Mosquito

"that's it" lol


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Lol. Now you're making fun of me!
They're all cheap


----------



## bandit571

In the absence of a Stanley screwdriver FOR the Stanley 45…..decided to adjust the end of another style of screwdriver..









End needed to be "fattened up" to better match the slots on the bolts….

Set things up to mill a groove tonight..









Using a #12 cutter. Wasn't cutting right…..ah, skates were too wide. Slid them together, grooves were milled a lot better..









Even right through a knot. 









Type 20, Canada made.


----------



## WhoMe

The more I play with my 45, the more I realize that this plane was made for right handed people. I am left handed and just can't get used to planning things right handed. 
Anyone have any helpful suggestions.
To badi just can't flip the fence to the other side, maybe I'll have to start saving for a 55.


----------



## bandit571

Run the rods on through, and place the fence on that side, then. The rods will slide all the way through. You can leave the sliding skate in it's normal side.


----------



## Mosquito

Why can't you flip the fence to the other side? It makes things a bit more awkward, but the sliding skate can have a depth stop on it, so I would think you'd be able too, though it would be weird (like having the knob right back by the tote). I've thought about trying it that way before just to deal with rough grain sometimes.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Yeah, flip the fence and give it a shot. You'll have identical issues with a 55. Like Mos said you can get depth stops on both sides, so it should work!


----------



## DLK

Searching on "Using the Stanley 45 left handed" I found a number of other forum threads that discuss this.


----------



## KentInOttawa

A question on technique: I need to plough a 5/8" groove down the length of a 2×2, but I don't have a 5/8" iron, so I'll need to use a narrower iron and make two passes. Should I make cut "A" or "B" first? Why is that?


----------



## bandit571

I'd cut "B" first, as the area where "A" is will help support the first cut. less chance for a blow-out .


----------



## DLK

The farther you are away from the fence the harder it is to plow the groove accurately. So cutting "B" first might be the way to go as Bandit says.

I think you should get a scrap piece of 2×2 pine and try it both ways and see what works for you.


----------



## Mosquito

Peronally I would cut A first, for 2 reasons:

If you cut B first the main skate won't be on anything when you cut A. While the second skate will be on the wood to be cut, I'd rather have the main skate over wood since that's where your pushing hand is.
If you cut B first, the depth stop on A will only be partially registered at best when it gets down to depth

I'm not sure what blowout you would get on a groove cut, unless you're going against the grain, but even then you've got the same chance on either one…

I'd second what Combo said (after the edit ;-) ) to give it a try both ways on some scrap and see how you feel about it.


----------



## bandit571

Having a "Groovy time" 









A groove for the top panel, a groove for the bottom panel, and a third to split the lid off after a glue up…









Thinking….ok, blow out maybe more of a blow in, as the fence gets pushed into the side of the work, IF the outside edge is a bit thin, it may crack and break off.


----------



## Mosquito

Ah, I see what you mean now Bandit. Yeah I've definitely had that issue before. A deep groove close to the edge is just about done then CRACK… well crap.


----------



## WhoMe

Thanks guys for the encouragement. I'll have to try your suggestions the next time I'm in the shop.


----------



## DLK

> I 'd second what Combo said (after the edit ;-) ) to give it a try both ways on some scrap and see how you feel about it.
> 
> - Mosquito


I see you caught that. The forum gives you about an hour to rethink what you write and edit. In this case it occurred to me as you point out there are more important issues concerning the skate and depth stop which caused me to change my opinion. But there are problems either way that you would have to worry about. So best to try out each and see what works best for you. A third option is to cut two parallel grooves leaving an island in the middle that you remove with chisel and bottom smooth with the router plane.


----------



## knockknock

I did some 3/4" rabbets with my veritas plow. I ended up doing A then B.


----------



## DanKrager

I would tend to do A-B for the very reasons Mos offered. But it may well be a matter of preference.

No one has mentioned sawing the sides of the groove to expedite the accuracy of the plough. I would at least consider scoring the edges to keep the top edge from splintering out, which often happens for several reasons. 
I wouldn't use the scoring cutters because they don't seem to help in "with the grain" operations, so it would be a knife cut or saw cut ahead of the plane in my case.

DanK


----------



## WillliamMSP

Man, 95 bucks for the lot, including a 45 (with some irons), a no-name No 8, a No 5, a spokie and some blocks.

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/atq/6043400114.html


----------



## Mosquito

Missing the expensive knob, but looks pretty good otherwise. Not a bad deal if you were looking for one


----------



## DLK

One of you should pick this up. You can probably make a future LJ happy by selling it at cost.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Wife will kill me bad, so must skip.


----------



## WayneC

Looks like it is gone.


----------



## WhoMe

So, starting to sharpen other irons and look what i found.

















Not the best images from my phone but wow, a second cracked iron. Neither of the irons looked used. Looks like ill need to visit nh plane parts for replacements. Luckily none of the others have cracks. 
Another thing, none of the iron backs are remotely flat. Going to be a marathon sharpening session one of these days. :-(


----------



## dbray45

When I bought my 55, most of the blades had the original sharpening - only two of blades were used. As they were, they were not bad. After flattening, sharpening, and some honing with leather and some rouge, I made the moldings for my windows and it was seriously nice to use.


----------



## DLK

*WhoMe*: I am curious how you came by this set of "defective" 45 irons. So many failures suggests that they were not originals, but cheaply made reproductions. Makes me worry about a few I have bought.


----------



## WayneC

That is wild. Not seen anything like that on my cutters


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, I haven't seen anything like that with any of the sets I've got either


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Hmm. Yeah, it's possible they are repro irons. I still believe they weren't annealed well enough, but it is also possible they cracked at hardening and were left that way.

Do they show signs of ever having been sharpened?


----------



## WhoMe

I'm tending to think the cutters are original.. All are stamped with their numbers in the same position and font as all the other Stanley ones I have seen on the web. It is just weird it is only the #12 & #14 straight cutters. All the other cutters are just fine. Everything was bought from a respected LJ member a couple years ago and I'm sure he did not know about the cracks. If he did, it would have been mentioned.
It is not a big deal to me. I'll just add these to my list of parts I want to get to make this 45 complete.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

If it's just those two, then it's good they're less expensive!


----------



## DLK

List of parts …. is costing me a fortune.


----------



## WhoMe

Yea glenn, it's just those two. All the others are fine. Like you said, they're the easy simple ones and they should be inexpensive and easy to find.


----------



## WhoMe

> List of parts …. is costing me a fortune.
> 
> - Combo Prof


For a 55, I bet….


----------



## DLK

No the 55 I got was complete. But the two 45's needed cutters and little things here and there. They add up.
For example I needed a Stanley alloy 74 - 1/2" cold chisel to complete a Stanley 951 tambour door tool chest.
After looking for almost a year one came up at e-bay auction. I made sure I won it. Just need to find a couple of the right screw drivers and I'll be done with the 951. ( I have some that are the right model but wrong size.) Then some parts for filister's and so forth. Not clear to me that buying piecemeal is a good Idea.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Generally it's not. It only truly pays off for the most patient. I'm not one of those people. I did ok on the 55 because I already had the tower!


----------



## bandit571

Put the 45 to work again tonight…









Split off the lid of the box I'm working on…..Needed a knife to finish the cut, that way the box would stay together until then. Had to shoulder plane the lip to fit….not a biggie. 









#12 cutter. Depth is a hair short of 1/2 way through. 









When I get some new AAA Batteries for the camera, I can post the finished box.


----------



## WhoMe

My experience is piece by piece is always more expensive.
I usually spend nearly as much or more on pieces to complete some tools than being patient and gettinga complete tool at a decent price. A while back, I picked upa nice 71 router plane with one cutter. To get the front foot, post, other 2 cutters and the stop will probably set me back double whati paid for the plane and the total will most likely be more than the going price fora complete one.


----------



## bandit571

Results of the "split the lid off..









Lip formed. Had to thin it down a bit. 









With the lid closed.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Bandit. Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you make that box something like this:









You cut the inside groove before assembly and the outside groove after? How much overlap, if any, did you shoot for?


----------



## bandit571

Basically. I shot for zero over lap on mine, as the depth was a bit hard to control with these thin boards. Then a sharp knife can split the lid off. easier then to adjust the height of the lip. And then thickness of the lip.

This way, I don't lose any more than the width of the #12 cutter ( 1/4") in the height of the box.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

34 cutters for the 55 in the 4-row single box for $72.

Pics when they arrive..


----------



## bandit571

Poplar shavings are in the house..









Feeling "Groovy" 









Just ploughing along


----------



## WayneC

> 34 cutters for the 55 in the 4-row single box for $72.
> 
> Pics when they arrive..
> 
> - GlenintheNorth


I was watching those. Congratulations.


----------



## WayneC

> Basically. I shot for zero over lap on mine, as the depth was a bit hard to control with these thin boards. Then a sharp knife can split the lid off. easier then to adjust the height of the lip. And then thickness of the lip.
> 
> This way, I don t lose any more than the width of the #12 cutter ( 1/4") in the height of the box.
> 
> - bandit571


I bet a kerfing plane would work great. you would only lose the width of the kerfing blade.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Wayne - you are correct, but using a plough plane like Bandit did has the added benefit of creating an overlapping lid without needing to cut and fit additional pieces.









Like almost everything else in woodworking, it all depend on the tools that you have, your experience, your goals, your mood, etc, etc, etc…


----------



## bandit571

Having a "problem with the thumbscrews that hold the fence in place on the rods…...they both need a pair of pliers to turn. I even tok both out, cleaned the threads, gave them a drop of 3in1 oil…...and still needed the pliers to turn them. I don't have the right sized tap to "chase" the threads on the fence part.

Both thumbscrews have a "cone" like end. Is there a reasom why they are so hard to turn? Hard on my fingers….


----------



## DanKrager

The cones on the ends are there to grip the rod more reliably. The smaller surface requires less pressure to make it grip the rod securely. Why they turn so hard? There has to be a mismatch or damage on the threads somewhere. Good chance someone force metric in there…

DanK


----------



## WayneC

> Wayne - you are correct, but using a plough plane like Bandit did has the added benefit of creating an overlapping lid without needing to cut and fit additional pieces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like almost everything else in woodworking, it all depend on the tools that you have, your experience, your goals, your mood, etc, etc, etc…
> 
> - Kent


I was more responding to his comment about loosing the 1/4" width of the blade.


----------



## bandit571

I could have just as easily made the grooves @ 1/8" wide, but since the plane was set up with #12 cutter, might as well use it. Saves changing a cutter, tearing down the plane to remove the sliding stock, and things like that.

On the next box I am working on…a pair of beads will go all the way around the box, then a saw to split the lid off. The two bead would then be the joint between the lid and the box.

Since my 45 is a user plane, maybe re-tap and use new thumbscrews to match. Will have to check which tap size would work, and IF I can get new thumbscrews to match….The "bad" threads seem to be in the fence part. May switch out for two slotted screws and use the thumbscrew elsewhere.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

If needed I have a spare fence, but not a micro adjusting one.


----------



## bandit571

Seems the thumbscrews that came with the fence were NOT tapered….But, IF I were to now buy the tapered ones, they would be too loose..









And, yes, nhplaneparts does have a few of those little locking bolts for the adjustable fence.

Bad news: while resetting the spurs to get them up out of the way…..yep, one of them little, hard to see or hold bolts for the spur went bouncing off into parts unknown….

Trying to set up for some "bead work" 









At least I don't need spurs for this sort of cut. A new spur and bolt runs about $11, counting shipping. Maybe in a few weeks…


----------



## DanKrager

Bandit, I'm sorry that little bugger got away. I keep a very big powerful magnet (think junk woofer or junk microwave) on a short rope and swing it over the areas where I think it landed first and then in an expanding search pattern. So far there's only one missing metal piece somewhere in the shop! (think sprooooiiiiiinnnngggg)

DanK


----------



## DLK

I bought one of those bar magnets on wheels. But a small screw like that could get caught under something for example Bandits shoe and you'll never find it.


----------



## Mosquito

I haven't decided what's worse, losing one of those spur screws or snapping half of it off… at least when you've completely lost it you don't have to try to get the old one out…


----------



## bandit571

BTDT….Easy-out took out the rusted in-place bolt On the other side ( main stock) so a new thread and bolt had to be made from scratch. At least I can just buy a new bolt for the missing one on the sliding stock. Have a magnet on a stick…..picked up everything BUT that bolt. Never even heard the least sound out of it, either. Just disappeared…

Might get the bolt for the #55's spur, and "adjust it' to work. Right now, I have both the boltless spur and a spare spur…...but no spare bolt. The one in the Wards 78 is a bit too long.


----------



## Tim457

Until very recently Stanley still sold a set of replacement spurs and screws, but they went unavailable. Probably stopped bothering to make more and ran out.


----------



## bandit571

I'll see if Eric @ nhplaneparts has a few…

Bead cutter at work..









Needed two beads..









Then split the beads to saw off the lid..









Hand planed to remove the saw marks..









Add some brass hinges, and a coat of Witch's Brew…..and then take a break.


----------



## KentInOttawa

That box is looking good, Bandit.

I've been having a rough month health-wise so, for the most part, I've been woodworking vicariously. Please carry on…


----------



## DLK

Thats a nice box.


----------



## DanKrager

Yes. It does look good.
DanK


----------



## GlenintheNorth

It came. None of the standard plow irons were in this lot so with this 34 add another 10 for the plows I already have and the extra slitter floating about and I have 45 of the 55 of the standard set. Yay~

Oh and the other two tongue cutters for 47. I need a real count.


----------



## WayneC

Getting closer. 

Then come the special cutters. I'm currently working on them.


----------



## DLK

How are you buying these? e-bay?


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Yeah eBay for this bunch. The set for the #45 came primarily from last Hastings area A meet. Between these two I have the majority of the cutters the 55 came with and two of the specials. I am hoping to complete a set such that both planes can use them..and I am actively eyeballing box ideas to hold both planes at once. I figure there's no reason not to house them together if they're going to be sharing underwear anyway…


----------



## DLK

Remember to clean your underwear befor you put it away.


----------



## WayneC

Cross posted. Luban arrived today. This plane is a re-imagined Record 043. Improvements include all stainless steel construction, larger handle and a Kerfing blade.


----------



## Tim457

So how well does it work? We need action shots. And just curious, if you have the record, what led you to buy the Luban?


----------



## WayneC

> So how well does it work? We need action shots. And just curious, if you have the record, what led you to buy the Luban?
> 
> - Tim


It comes with a Kerfing attachment. That was the main driver.


----------



## WayneC

I'm looking to sort out what I'm going to do for a 45. I have a number boxed to pull out and decide from or I may buy another 45. I've also been considering a Record 405. I have all the accessories for the 45.

Also is there a preferred Type over all others? Thoughts or suggestions?


----------



## Mosquito

My personal preference for an all around #45 is a Type 12 or later. Type 12 was when they introduced the micro adjustment for the fence.

If I were going to dedicate a plane to only pull hollow and round duties, I would probably opt for a type 5 or 6, which were the 2 models where the knob was on the main casting still, but they added the depth adjustment for the cutter.

I also prefer the type 6 and earlier planes if all I'm going to do is a simple groove. They're a bit lighter and easier to manage.


----------



## WayneC

Thanks for the advice. I added a $27 type twelve today. I also got a couple more record H&R bodies. Need the cutters. I'll have to evaluate the different types that I have.


----------



## Mosquito

Not bad for $27 that's for sure. If you happen to come across a spare set of Record No. 12 H&R bases (with irons and wing screws not knurled knobs preferably) for under $60 let me know, that's the only set I'm still on the hunt for to complete my set of record H&R's.


----------



## rhybeka

looks like I need to bust out some pine and get comfy with mine - I /think/ I'm going to attempt a shiplap back for my Dutch tool chest. It's still behind a few other projects though so I have time to think on it a bit more and get comfortable using the 45


----------



## Brit

I posted this on the epic thread but I guess it belongs here more than there.

[IMG alt="DSC02815 3"]https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2829/34260788725_3cfc7908ee_z.jpg[/IMG]


----------



## WayneC

I love the Record 043 and 044. They are great little planes. I just purchased another 44 because it came with two sets of H&R attachments for it. The eBay seller had a bit of a gap in knowledge.


----------



## WayneC




----------



## Mosquito

lol I've been kind of wanting a newer 044 just for fun.

I should have started picking up those style H&R bases, I've come across so many more of the ones with the knurled thumb screes rather than the flat ones like I have… Oh well lol


----------



## WayneC

I got all matching Records. Which is also why I'm thinking about getting a 405.


----------



## Mosquito

Similar reason I want a 405 too (apart from a desire to someday acquire as many variations or clones of the #45 as I can) lol


----------



## DLK

*Wow Andy! * I really like that photo. Someone needs to put it on a calendar. But I don't know who.


----------



## WayneC

We need to set up some trades with Andy for stuff you cannot get in the US for stuff he cannot get in the UK.


----------



## Mosquito

I've bought some things from ebay.co.uk who offered international shipping. My Record 073 came from over there. It was a good deal even including shipping for this side of the pond lol


----------



## DLK

WayneC and Andy I would do that.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

I'm tempted, myself. Likely won't but it is a great idea.


----------



## WayneC

> I ve bought some things from ebay.co.uk who offered international shipping. My Record 073 came from over there. It was a good deal even including shipping for this side of the pond lol
> 
> - Mosquito


I'm a frequent shopper on the UK eBay site.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Well I finally tried using two fences at once for a t&g. It works but you have to wax the crap out of them for friction.

So yay

And if you hit a knot, the cutter goes sideways.


----------



## WayneC

That's interesting. I've not tried T&G using a combination plane. (I've got a number of dedicated planes)


----------



## Mosquito

I can back you up on that Glen, my experience is about the same lol Or using a #55 with both fences for anything. It's similar. Lots of friction to overcome.


----------



## theoldfart

I did some rabbet work with my 405 today, fun!


















Making drawer slips for a low boy.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

How come you had to use a shoulder plane?

Oh. While I'm posting, I should probably start asking about boxes for these. I see your cutter box there, is that your ideal box, or are there changes you'd like to see made? I'm on the lookout for ideas. The 45 and 55 need houses that aren't lidded plastic bins.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm..









My Stanley 45 Type 20 SW parked in a rebuilt box…









OEM box also had such a place to stash 24 cutters..









I tried to match the OEMbox as close as I could…









Came close.


----------



## Just_Iain

> - WayneC


Wayne, dumb question time. What is the diameter of the rods for the Record 045? Also length. I misplaced my rods on the plane I bought at least 30 years ago and need to see about replacements.

Iain


----------



## theoldfart

Glenn, the box is something I just picked up and it suits me just fine. As for the shoulder, I use it to fine tune the rabbets.


----------



## DLK

Nice box Bandit. Is there a good solution that allows one to keep the 45 or 55 assembled? My notes say the OEM box for the 55 was 12 L x 7 1/2 W x 6 1/2 H, but to keep it assembled and hold the 4 boxes of cutters I think if I recall it needs to be 12 L x 12 w x 10 H. But alas mine sits in a cardboard box.


----------



## Mosquito

The size of the OEM box actually depends on when it was made, but I don't think any of them allowed for the #45/55 to be fully assembled with long rods. Some of the later boxes allowed for the plane to be assembled with the short rods when in the box, such as the Type 15 hinged metal box (circa 1923-1935):









That is from my Type 21, as I don't have a picture of my Type 15 box handy, but they're the same. I'll try to find or take photos of the inside later.

*Glen:*
This was a user made box that one of my #45's came in:









I also did a video tour of it as well, with some comments about things I might consider if I were to build one similar:









And another one that I created some time ago









It does require that you disassemble the plane if you have H&R bases in it, but I am still able to get 2 of them in there if I want to









Or, you can have one plane fully assembled with long rods









And it's just a sliding lid, similar to the original wooden boxes


----------



## WayneC

> Wayne, dumb question time. What is the diameter of the rods for the Record 045? Also length. I misplaced my rods on the plane I bought at least 30 years ago and need to see about replacements.
> 
> Iain
> 
> - Just_Iain


I don't have a 405 body, but they are the same as the Stanley 45. There is a slew of replacements on eBay or if you want to make them the rod is

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HWHYHC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## WayneC

This rod is probably more exact, but it is a bit tight.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0035FZX22/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## WayneC

I found a box at a flea market that I am planning to fit my combination planes into. I'm thinking of cutters or plane bodies custom fit into the lid. Drawers for small combination plane bodies and cutters.


----------



## Mosquito

That is a sweet box Wayne


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Wayne, dumb question time. What is the diameter of the rods for the Record 045? Also length. I misplaced my rods on the plane I bought at least 30 years ago and need to see about replacements.
> 
> Iain


 Iain - the rods on my *Record 045C* are .388" 









As I understand it, the rods, etc are the same for the 044C, 045C and the 050C. I can't even fathom a guess about interchangeability with and 405 or 45/045 (No "C").


----------



## WayneC

They seem to be the same between the 45/55 rods I have and my 044C. The second of the rods listed above in the Amazon links is .390 and the first is .375.

I got .388 as well on my 044C and .384 on a Stanley 45 rod.


----------



## WayneC

Thanks. Mos.

One more with the tray out.


----------



## theoldfart

That's a whole lotta H&R's in there.


----------



## WayneC

It's a full set of Records including the nosing attachment.


----------



## theoldfart

Very noice.


----------



## WayneC

> Very noice.
> 
> - theoldfart


Thanks. I think the records are easier to find compared to the Stanley.


----------



## Mosquito

Not sure about easier to find, but they sure are cheaper…

They also made them more recently, which probably helps too.

I've still yet to find a No. 12 H&R set that matches my 6, 8, 10 sets and nosing base. Found a few with the knurled thumb screws, but none with the winged style thumb screws…


----------



## theoldfart

Any one have trouble keeping the outside fence tight? I had to resort(wince here)pliers :-(. Wrapped a rag around the knurled screw then just a little twist. Any recommendations based on experience?


----------



## WayneC

I'm guessing that is why they went to a thumbscrew. Perhaps a user Fence?


----------



## theoldfart

Wayne, mine is a Record and I don't recall seeing thumb screws. I might resort to a monkey wrench and SS bolts!


----------



## WayneC

I got some cutters for my Record 044C today. It looks to me like the C model Record Combination planes are interchangeable and there is a conversion options so the 044c and 050c can function like a 405c. I missed the Bid on the the conversion kit but did win some cutters. These are interesting as they share rails with the 405. Although the spacing is different so a 405 fence would not work.


----------



## WayneC

> Wayne, mine is a Record and I don t recall seeing thumb screws. I might resort to a monkey wrench and SS bolts!
> 
> - theoldfart


Well, you could still use a Stanley fence on it I would think. The later Stanley's use thumb screws. Also you could look for screws with screw driver slots.


----------



## theoldfart

Definitely food for thought, thanks Wayne.


----------



## Tim457

I think it's Dan that explained making the shape of the head of the screw a little more like a cone concentrates the force on a smaller spot and gives a little better grip. You could of course, gasp, cut a slot in the screw head with a hacksaw or dremel.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

What's at the business end of the thumbscrew?

Btw, I'm digging the box responses. I have a couple of ideas to try.


----------



## bandit571

Wasn't there a tapered thumbscrew also involved?


----------



## DanKrager

Before you reshape the thumbscrew with a taper, drop a lead shotgun pellet in the hole under the screw and see if that holds.

DanK


----------



## Just_Iain

> Wayne, dumb question time. What is the diameter of the rods for the Record 045? Also length. I misplaced my rods on the plane I bought at least 30 years ago and need to see about replacements.
> 
> Iain
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iain - the rods on my *Record 045C* are .388"
> 
> As I understand it, the rods, etc are the same for the 044C, 045C and the 050C. I can t even fathom a guess about interchangeability with and 405 or 45/045 (No "C").
> 
> - Kent


Kent,

Many Thanks as I have a 045C. I still got the box and the blades packaged with it but the rods went AWOL.

Iain


----------



## Just_Iain

If anyone is looking for one, there is a Stanley 50S still in the cardboard box with a set of 8 cutters that has no bids in the UK with starting Bid of around $10. Looks rather 'minty'.

I was looking for rods for the 045C and it showed up on the search.

Iain


----------



## Just_Iain

> Wayne, dumb question time. What is the diameter of the rods for the Record 045? Also length. I misplaced my rods on the plane I bought at least 30 years ago and need to see about replacements.
> 
> Iain
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iain - the rods on my *Record 045C* are .388"
> 
> As I understand it, the rods, etc are the same for the 044C, 045C and the 050C. I can t even fathom a guess about interchangeability with and 405 or 45/045 (No "C").
> 
> - Kent
> 
> Kent,
> 
> Many Thanks as I have a 045C. I still got the box and the blades packaged with it but the rods went AWOL.
> 
> Iain
> 
> - Just_Iain


I have a set of Long Dowel rods for the Record Dowel Jig, I just thought to check them to see if they would work. If the right size, I just cut them down. All this time and the answer is at the bottom of a box, still in the original wrapping. DOH!

Iain


----------



## WayneC

The will fit. My hollow and rounds are on a set of dowel jig rods.


----------



## WayneC

I got a 45 in the mail today along with some other stuff. I think this is going to be my main user 45.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice, type… 12?


----------



## WayneC

I've not tried to type it yet. The plating looks like it is in pretty good condition. It came with the two boxes of cutters.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

It does look great.

Makes me want to re-nickel mine.


----------



## theoldfart

Practice run for the drawer fronts.


----------



## CL810

Cool!


----------



## theoldfart

Even got it to work cross grain









Tomorrow we do it for real, shudder!


----------



## donwilwol

A recent aquisition



















I need to find someone to make a canvas roll.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice acquisition, Don! Looks like a Craftsman rabbet plane alongside it, to the right?


----------



## Just_Iain

I got blades for the 45 on eBay fairly cheap as they were mislabeled. Then I won the bidding on a fairly complete 45 from the US. Waited and waited and finally… Email from Ebay that they can't ship it Internationally. Ah sh_t! That was the 5 or 6th that I've bid on in the last 2 months and finally I won. And the second plane that I won that eBay declared *undeliverable* and I'm getting a refund.

Darn


----------



## Mosquito

Dang it! Where are you at that they have issues with?


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Can't do the GSP now on anything with a rosewood handle.

I'm not sure how to get around that. The seller never sees the item back again, either. They are seized by Pitney Bowes, not Customs.

They are cracking down much harder than they have in the past. Not sure what has changed.


----------



## bandit571

It would seem that Anant has been selling their versions of both the #45 and the #50…...but, for $300+ for the #A45…I will pass. Haven't even seen the price for the A52 as they call it…..still will pass.

(Still working on that A-4 I found….work in progress, but, for $5…..I can manage.

Have seen a lot of "reviews" on their items…...none were great.


----------



## DLK

> Can t do the GSP now on anything with a rosewood handle.
> 
> I m not sure how to get around that. The seller never sees the item back again, either. They are seized by Pitney Bowes, not Customs.
> 
> They are cracking down much harder than they have in the past. Not sure what has changed.
> 
> - GlenintheNorth


What's the reason?


----------



## GlenintheNorth

> Can t do the GSP now on anything with a rosewood handle.
> 
> I m not sure how to get around that. The seller never sees the item back again, either. They are seized by Pitney Bowes, not Customs.
> 
> They are cracking down much harder than they have in the past. Not sure what has changed.
> 
> - GlenintheNorth
> 
> What s the reason?
> 
> - Combo Prof


CITES-listed endangered species.

As to why PB is confiscating and not returning.. I do not know.


----------



## DanKrager

Some of those guys have hobbies, too.

DanK


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Then they can buy their own…


----------



## Just_Iain

> Dang it! Where are you at that they have issues with?
> 
> - Mosquito


Toronto, Canada. If they asked, I have a delivery address I can use in the US. But they don't ask, just cancel.

Iain


----------



## donwilwol

> Dang it! Where are you at that they have issues with?
> 
> - Mosquito


This is getting posted a lot in the handplane Facebook group. It seems nothing that even may look like rosewood is crossing in or out of the border.


----------



## Mosquito

good to know I suppose…


----------



## donwilwol

I'm with Glen. I don't know what they do with the tools. I hope they're not being destroyed. I don't understand that the buyer gets reimbursed and the seller gets paid.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

Is there a good way to repair the knob on the older type of these without the screw? Mine was cracked in half and I've epoxied it back together, but the hole doesn't fit tight around the nib, can I just epoxy it to it?


----------



## WayneC

> I m with Glen. I don t know what they do with the tools. I hope they re not being destroyed. I don t understand that the buyer gets reimbursed and the seller gets paid.
> 
> - Don W


Seeing examples of this all the time. I'm trying to be extra careful when buying anything that has wood on ebay that needs to ship globally.


----------



## CO_Goose

> Dang it! Where are you at that they have issues with?
> - Mosquito
> 
> This is getting posted a lot in the handplane Facebook group. It seems nothing that even may look like rosewood is crossing in or out of the border.
> - Don W


It seems that a new set of CITES (Convention of International Trade of Endangered Species of Flora and Fauna) regilations started on January 2 2017 for all species of rosewood. Any thing that looks like Rosewood cannot cross a country's border without paperwork. There is more information here:

https://reverb.com/news/new-cites-regulations-for-all-rosewood-species


----------



## GlenintheNorth

https://cites.org/eng/disc/how.php

Rosewood and bubinga both are appendix II now. Joy. All species of Dalbergia and three of the bubingas.


----------



## CL810

Wow, that just made the small piece of bubinga I've been hoarding even more special, knowing it will just get harder and more expensive to acquire.


----------



## WayneC

I'm going to have to look closely at my wood rack. 



> Is there a good way to repair the knob on the older type of these without the screw? Mine was cracked in half and I ve epoxied it back together, but the hole doesn t fit tight around the nib, can I just epoxy it to it?
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


I've not tried it but perhaps build up the knob with a bit of colored epoxy to fit the hole?


----------



## GlenintheNorth

I read the appendix II list. All Dalbergia are indeed on it, but only two species of bubinga.

Sadly, cocobolo is a Dalbergia.

No replacement MF totes for me I guess.


----------



## Just_Iain

I just scored 2 45's that are going to US address thru eBay. I'll get them end of July and per Reverb "It does not apply to instruments shipped within the borders of your country or instruments carried for personal use while traveling internationally [unless they contain more than 22 lbs. (10 kg) of the regulated woods]. " I will be able carrying them for personal use across the border and they contain less than 22 lbs. of the regulated woods.

Thanks for the updates CO_Goose and GlenintheNorth.


----------



## WayneC

That is good to know.


----------



## WayneC

I got a Stanley Combination plane box I need to build a lid for. I've been promised some chestnut. Should be fun.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Wayne. Original lids are really hard to come by for those boxes lol


----------



## WayneC

Most I see listed are missing the lids.


----------



## DLK

Why chestnut? (I'm hoarding 2 boards.)


----------



## WayneC

The boxes are supposed to be made from Chestnut.


----------



## DLK

> The boxes are supposed to be made from Chestnut.
> 
> - WayneC


I did not know that. I've been saving mine for carving.


----------



## WayneC

Carving is probably a better use.


----------



## donwilwol

Why carving?


----------



## UpstateNYdude

Because Chestnut is not any kind of exciting grain…maybe?


----------



## DLK

> Why carving?
> 
> - Don W


You are right. Carving would indeed be a mistake. I don't know what I was thinking. So I guess it will be boxes or in furniture.


----------



## donwilwol

It was a pure question. Chestnut is like oak. I like it. I been wondering why no one made plane knobs and totes or saw handle from it. It was used for everything else pre 1900.


----------



## Just_Iain

> I can back you up on that Glen, my experience is about the same lol Or using a #55 with both fences for anything. It s similar. Lots of friction to overcome.
> 
> - Mosquito


Mos,

Could you swap the rosewood for 'HWMP'? Either as a tape for solid blocks.

Iain


----------



## DLK

So I have an idea now for my chestnut. Instead of carving it, I'll make a box for carving tools.


----------



## Mosquito

I could probably give it a shot Iain. I've got some UHMW tape I could give it a try with. The only hesitation I'd have is that I'd have to try to cover the whole fence. Not a bad idea though. Solid block may work well too


----------



## DLK

'How about lignum vitae instead of UHMW


----------



## DanKrager

Chestnut is a good wood for boxes. It was used a lot because there was so much of it in years past. It cuts and carves pretty easily, it's pretty, but it tends to be a little stringy and can be brittle. I wouldn't make plane totes out of it just because the cross grain strength is not high. Horns on totes and handles would be pretty susceptible to splitting off. If I were determined to make totes or knobs because it is so pretty, I would consider soaking the nicely formed and sanded blank in a thin epoxy a couple times and that would form an exoskeleton shell that would add considerable durability. I haven't used that treatment myself, but it makes sense to me. YMMV!

DanK


----------



## GlenintheNorth

UHMW is that greasy-feeling white plastic stuff?

If so, I got solid blocks of it, Mos. You can grab a piece when you come get your saws


----------



## WayneC

UHMW might be fun to play with on a fence. I might have to swing by Rockler this weekend.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

So why do so many #64 cutters have no notch? Mine has one, but almost every one I see on flea bay doesn't.

Also…what is the reason for the pinhole cutters? The only one I've got is my #10 1/8" plow, which is great because I can use the adjuster wheel to pull it out, but that doesn't explain why so many others have a hole instead of a notch.


----------



## Mosquito

What is the #64 cutter?

Age, mainly, as far as why some have holes and some have notches, and some have none.

Up until 1892 (Types 1-4) there were no holes in the cutters, because there was no depth adjustment. With type 5 they added holes to the cutters to work with the depth adjustment.

In 1895 they switched to slots for type 6, except for 1/8 and 3/16, which kept the holes (No idea why). That's the way it stayed until 1910, when they got rid of the hole on the 1/8" iron and made it 5/16" shorter (I'm guessing to use the depth adjuster to push it down, at least that's how I use them). That changed happened with type 11 and continued through the rest of production.


----------



## DLK

This video by Simon James on how to cut a cove with molding planes has some interesting techniques that may be adaptable to the 45. I particularly like the 45 degree sticking board and the use of the center slot.


----------



## Tim457

That's a good video. After watching it I can't remember the other method of helping the rebate plane follow a line like that that I saw.


----------



## Mosquito

That's similar to what I do with the rabbet plane, except I just use the marking gauge


----------



## Tim457

That's the one, should have known it was yours. I suppose his wooden rebate plane wouldn't work as well with just a marking gauge, but your shoulder plane did well.


----------



## DLK

It might be interesting to put a sticking board on trunnions so that it could be rotated to any angle I may have to think about how to do it.


----------



## CO_Goose

I figure this is the best place to ask this question. From reading this thread, I understand that the nickers are to be down for cross grain cuts to score the sides of the cut before the blade removes the material, making it easier on the blade. But then going with the grain, the nickers are to not be used, why? Wouldn't the same logic hold? What about a board where the grain is more diagonal, or changing directions, should the nickers be used in that case?

Goose


----------



## Mosquito

You can use the nickers whenever you want if it works 

I typically avoid using knickers with the grain because sometimes they'll catch in the grain and try to pull the fence away from the work piece which results in a groove or rabbet that's not straight.


----------



## bandit571

Like this?









I used a shoulder plane to clean the corner up









Might have had mine a hair too deep?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mos, I hope you picked up that #45 on eBay last night. A complete floral type, with box, but also included what the seller called "accessories," two sets of japanned H&R bases, the ones with the brass, slotted screws. BIN $189 or something like that… Money to be made on that one.


----------



## Mosquito

I assume you meant this one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nice-Vintage-Stanley-No-45-Wood-Plane-With-Cutters-and-Accessories-in-Wooden-Box-/182665412974?hash=item2a87b5016e%3Ag%3A0-8AAOSwgu9ZZnxo&nma=true&si=HPD4YrEQozCnhBF3JGbpAgj5n%252FQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I saw it, thought about it, but decided no. I've got my eye on something else at the moment, and I didn't want to tie up the money in that waiting to flip it. If the plane would have been in nicer shape than the one I have I would have done it, but alas it's not so I didn't 

See, I do have SOME self control with these things lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Self control in tool buying? Is there virtue to be found in such restraint? Don't let Don know, please.

If I had the #45 to go with them, it'd have been game over. Never see 'em that old, and actually looked like at least of pair of proper cutters was in the mix.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm trying to put off collecting H&R bases until after I get some other stuff done, like my Record No. 12 H&R's I've been watching for for 3 years lol I've got most of a set of Stanley's too, if only I hadn't sold the Stanley ones I had before….

Someone definitely got a heck of a deal on that one, that's for sure.


----------



## DLK

> Self control in tool buying? Is there virtue to be found in such restraint? Don t let Don know, please.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


When all your money is spent on moving and building a new shop self control is easy!


----------



## theoldfart

You mean MY Record 12 H&R's don't you Mos?


----------



## Mosquito

lol do you want the hollow or the round? 

I saw a set go by once, but I held out because it had the knurled thumb screws rather than the flat thumb screws that matches the rest of my bases… I haven't seen one of those yet, outside of a full set.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Ny 45 has two sets of short arms and no long arms. I think I will try to find some rod that size and cut a couple if I can find out what the length should be for the long arms. my guess is that the long arms are double the length of the short arms. Is that a good guess?
Mike


----------



## Mosquito

That's a good enough guess. At least for the later types my short rods are 4-3/8" and the long rods are 8-1/4". So not quite double, but close enough. Really if you're making your own you can make them however long you want. I have seen people make a set of longer arms that were 12" long. You're only limited to the length of stock you can buy. But, I'm not sure I'd want to try using plane with the fence 36" from the plane lol


----------



## WayneC

I think that St. James Bay sells rods up to 24".


----------



## bandit571

Random plane picture..









Feeling "Groovy" today..


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks guys for the responses. I might have to order something but I have a drill bit that has a 17" shaft that I might try first. If the size is close enough, I will cut a couple 8-1/4" pieces. Thanks again.
Mike


----------



## BlasterStumps

Okay, well that worked. I cut that long drill bit down so that I got two 8" pieces of the rod to use as long arms on the 45 plane. I haven't used the plane yet, just got it from a Restore so still checking it out. Just discovered that the 1/4 flat blade is missing, crap. Oh well, more blades will turn up eventually. The tool roll of blades I got so far are apparently from either a Wards or Craftsman 45. I had to cut a slot in each of them to accept the pin on the adjuster screw. Didn't get a splitter with it either so I will be on the hunt for one of those also. Should be interesting and fun learning how to use this tool. Lots of info and videos posted on this forum and elsewhere online so now just need to do some studying. Thanks again Mos for the info on the arm length.
Mike


----------



## OleGrump

This is a GREAT thread, and I've only read the first couple of pages, so far. Lots of good information posted here. 
Just wanted to briefly chime in and add that I got lucky that the first #45 I bought (and it seems some of us own "a few".....) was a complete version in very good condition, (No original box) made for Montgomery Ward's. (They are also available marked "Craftsman", but I don't have one of those…....yet….....LOL) The condition of this one is "almost" too nice to use, but it does see service from time to time.
The second #45, a gen-you-eyen Stanley, was bought at a flea market, body complete, long rods only and one blade in place. A little shopping on line provided a set of cutters. No short rods for this one yet, but I just move the long rods to the right when shorter distance is needed. Of course one needs AT LEAST two such planes….that way one can tongue and groove without having to reset a plane…... (It's a good an excuse as any, right…....???) I did see some discussion in earlier posts about self control when buying tools . I am fairly easily led into temptation. My name is Barry, and I am a hand tool-aholic…....


----------



## WayneC

What is this self control you speak of? Also, you should consider dedicated T&G planes of various sizes and styles. Not that I would enable anyone.


----------



## OleGrump

Here's the "grandson" (?) of the #45, as purchased in 1999, as part of my "Y2K" kit of traditional style hand tools available at the turn of the Millennium. (An idea I had at the time) Made by Stanley, in England. Not nearly as elegant in looks or design as our beloved 45s, but the blades are exactly the same. One size rods. The second skate's width is adjusted by the screw in the middle. There is a screw on the right rear of the main skate for fine tuning the width. Otherwise, it's pretty straightforward:


----------



## DLK

Maybe it works better. Does it?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Wow OleGrump, that thing looks solid and in very good condition too. Makes me wonder why they didn't continue with it.


----------



## bandit571

L-V copied it….


----------



## bandit571

Was getting to the point of needing the cam rest…









Was too lazy to install it tonight…fourth groove is done..









I came in from the short side, otherwise I would have needed the cam rest…


----------



## OleGrump

The "grandson" of the #45 is good and solid, (even if the casting's surfaces are a bit rough) and it does work well in it's simplified form. It does lack the feel of the 45's handle and knob, but one adapts to it. (Been toying with the idea of making a wooden handle, but there are so many projects, and so little time…...) It may not be very "pretty", but it " Gits 'er dun." and came with new #45 blades. 
I was able to obtain this plane through Garrett Wade, who stopped carrying it shortly after I got this one. It was the only place I saw anything like it in 1999. It might still be available in the U.K, (The Hobbies treadle scroll saw is still available there) but it doesn't seem to be imported to the U.S. anymore. I'm glad I was able to get one, even if it was a little bit pricey at the time. The price tag is probably what killed the U.S. market for this plane, as a good serviceable #45 could be had for less. It is too bad, but that's the economics of it.


----------



## DLK

What I most like about the "machined Metal planes" is the ability to make fine adjustments.

Someone should have a go at making a "transitional 45". It could be a fun project.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Lee Valley has started teasing their new version of the 45. I pre-ordered one at Handworks 2017 and will review it once I get it.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/888436767644196864


----------



## Mosquito

Minneapolis huh? We may have to meet at some point LOL I have been keeping an ear to the ground on that plane since I first heard about it too. Not that I need one, but still…


----------



## DavePolaschek

Well, there's need, and *need*. After I played with it down at Handworks, I needed one.

Yeah, Minneapolis. Figure I'll get together with local Lumberjocks folks at some point, but I'm busy enough that I don't need to push it. Also figure I ought to get up to the school of wood at some point, but that's another thing I don't seem to find time for. Oh well. No hurry.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

There are a few of us up here in the Great White North, eh?

Er.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

You know…there are enough of us that we could one day do a project build in someone local's shop. Could be a fun get together, even if no one actually makes anything (though the pretense is still valid .


----------



## Mosquito

Exactly Dave lol I've been wanting to get up to Mike Seimsen's but the dates and classes I'm interested in haven't lined up for me yet. Maybe some day.

And I think that could be fun Glen. Something outside of MWTCA events where I end up spending money (and/or enabling others to spend money lol)


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Ah I saw this after I saw your PM!

I have also been meaning to get up there to Siemsen's place. I'm curious to see what he's done with the mitre box I slipped him on the way out of Medina this year.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Yeah Mos, the best bet was his week-long class which was during my vacation this year, but I couldn't talk myself into it, since I had so many projects going around the house.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Video!


----------



## DLK

Wow, thats the first of their planes I like the looks of. I would be tempted to sell of my half dozen combo planes to buy it. Any news of when it will be for sale?


----------



## Mosquito

I got a slight chuckle out of "They've really thought through a lot of the different difficulties using a combination plane. There's fine adjustments, threaded depth stops". I'm not doubting the tolerances are way better with the Veritas, but the #45 he showed right away also has fine adjustments and threaded depth stops… I don't see much of any innovation in this plane, just a quality modern version, and that's OK. Keep it simple because the old one worked just fine.

I've got two observations about it.

I like the looks of the blade clamping mechanism, vs what the #45 has.
I hope the irons fit in a #45, as it'd be nice to be able to buy new irons for one if you wanted (like a Hock or IBC blade for an old Stanley bench plane, sort of thing)

And on the subject of blades, it looks like they may be intending to make a left handed version of it as well (similar to their other plow/rebate planes I guess), given how the irons are notched on both sides. That should make some people happy lol

Thanks for sharing the video Dave.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'd also like the opportunity to get new 'special' cutters for my #45 from Veritas. That reeding cutter, for example, looked great. Not one that would get a ton of use, so paying collector price for one is out of the question.

Ditto, Mos. The plane in the video doesn't scream innovation to me either. It's black iron and brass, though, and that will win people over right away. Think #45 prices will be driven down as a result?


----------



## Mosquito

The user #45s may come down in price, depending on retail price point of the Veritas, but they could also possibly go up, if this causes a resugence of combination plane use and people start looking for less expensive alternatives…

If I had to venture a guess, it'd be around $275-$300, and wouldn't be too surprised at $350-$400 for the Veritas either… Not sure if the pre-orders had a price associated with them or not.


----------



## bandit571

One problem…No. 55's Cutter Box No. 1…....I don't think those will work in the new plane….."ogees".....


----------



## Tim457

That's a good point, Mos. I think they would be smart to make the blades fit in 45's because that would widen their market for them a lot.


----------



## Mosquito

I would really think they have made them able to be used in a #45, like they did with the router plane blades. I use a set of their router plane blades with my Stanley #71 and am happy that I could. I would probably pick up a set of irons for my main user #45, if I didn't just pick up a whole set (plane + irons). All depends on prices, really.


----------



## DavePolaschek

The plane was pre-ordering for a little over $300 at Handworks. You get two blade boxes and a box for the plane with pre-orders, though. The blades weren't cheap - with four blades my order was over $400. Sorry I don't have more exact numbers, but it was back in May.

The pre-orders are supposed to ship in August, iirc. I figured I'd get to play with it on Labor Day weekend if all goes well.


----------



## DLK

I will look forward to your review.


----------



## Mosquito

Good enough info for me Dave, thanks. So right around what I was expecting for the plane. Will definitely be interested to hear what you think once it arrives.


----------



## WayneC

> The blades weren t cheap - with four blades my order was over $400. Sorry I don t have more exact numbers, but it was back in May.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Did they say anything about blade compatibility with the 45/55? From the sounds of things it might be less expensive to use vintage cutters.


----------



## DavePolaschek

They said vintage 45 blades would work in their plane. I didn't ask about compatibility in the other direction.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> The plane was pre-ordering for a little over $300 at Handworks. You get two blade boxes and a box for the plane with pre-orders, though. The blades weren t cheap - with four blades my order was over $400.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Sorry, Dave, but I don't understand. What's in the 'two blade boxes', literally a couple of blades? And two more blades made the order $400? It reads like there are four cutters available.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Smitty, the boxes are for blade storage. They're empty, but can hold a dozen blades or something like that. They're a freebie for pre-ordering and will run a few bucks each or come free with a few blades or something when things ship for real.

There was a checklist of 20-some blades available. I bought 4 that I'm pretty sure I'll use almost immediately, and that plus tax pushed my order from 3-something to 4-something. But I don't remember exactly what that blades cost, but I don't think they were all the same price.


----------



## Mosquito

Hmm, ouch.


----------



## bandit571

Cutters would be cheaper through nhplaneparts…...


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

A Big Bead.


----------



## Mosquito

that is quite the bead. Fun how difficult it actually gets if you've got it cutting too deep to tart with? Or did you not fall into that trap lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Had to tweak the center skate to get it better aligned with the outside of the bead cutter, but depth was good. When it neared the bottom, the fence kinda binded up a bit, wax fixed that. So, it went better than I actually thought it would.


----------



## DanKrager

Nice, Smitty.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, "tweak the center skate" ? Was it twisted or something like that? The bead looks really clean. Nice work.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I credit the vintage, straight-grained pine for the clean bead more than technique, but I'll never turn down positive vibes!

Hard to explain without a close-up pic, but the main skate and center skate each extend to the tips of the bead cutter and are barely able to stay 'cleanly' behind said cutter (outside straight edge AND behind inside arches of cutter). Tightening up the cutter itself put just-so-slight of a skew on it, and led to some early tear-out alongside the bead wall. Adjusted the skate (moved it a hair) and the cutter, problem solved.


----------



## theoldfart

Mine fit tight like that too! (Slaps forehead) Think maybe I'll tweak mine as well.


----------



## Mosquito

yeah, there's a fine line between to narrow and too wide when it comes to the skate for beading


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

And an inverse relationship between tolerances and bead size.


----------



## WayneC

Reminds me. I need a beading stop for my 45.


----------



## WayneC

There is a Luban 043 with a full set of cutters for sale on Facebook. It's in the US for $200. If you're interested let me know and I can get you a contact. (not mine)


----------



## CL810

Wayne, if this is what you need, pm your mailing address.


----------



## WayneC

It is. Sending a PM.


----------



## Mosquito

How yummy would these be?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

For a #45 guy, very.

I'd love to have a subset of those reeding cutters but there's just no way they're worth the $.

Right?

;-)


----------



## WayneC

I've got most of the cutters, just not the boxes with labels. Well, actually the 55 box 5-8 cutters.


----------



## Mosquito

They're asking $900 (plus shipping) including the shipping box from Stanley http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXTRA-FINE-STANLEY-45-SPECIAL-CUTTERS-3-BOXES-ORIGINAL-STANLEY-SHIPPING-BOX-/172821049244?hash=item283cefef9c:g:2eoAAOSw2tRZbqB7

At prices like that, I'd rather buy the upcoming Veritas irons if they work…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

... plus shipping. That part cracks me up. Sell something for that much dough, you'd think there's margin to get it to my door.

Wayne, I believe a visit to your shop would be glorious, all the things inside to drool over.


----------



## WayneC

I assume everyone has seen that the Veritas Combination Plane is available to order. They detailed cutter pricing is in a PDF on the page.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Thanks for catching that, Wayne. I should be getting mine soon, I hope.


----------



## Mosquito

I had not seen that Wayne, thanks.

So 'round about $1,000 for the plane and a full set of irons. That's not too bad&ast;

&ast;Seriously, go look up how much some of the #45 reeding and fluting irons go for


----------



## DLK

Still…. I would need a wind fall to buy it, maybe sell my complete 55.

I did like the box and may copy it.


----------



## WayneC

Have the reeding and fluting irons. Happy dance.


----------



## Mosquito

Oh I'm not saying it's cheap lol Just that in the grand scheme of things, all those irons plus a brand new plane with presumably very tight tolerances, is not that bad.

It would likely be the kind of thing that I'd pick up the plane and a few irons, and slowly add sets of irons as I went. But then again, at that cost, maybe I'd just pick up individual irons as I needed them… only get the ones I actually use that way


----------



## theoldfart

I'm not sure the incremental improvements in the LV version are worth it I've had a 405 for a few years now and it has served me well. I have two of the H&R's and all of the cutters, both standard and the extras. I think my total investment is around $275 or so. To spend near a thousand dollars to get the new and shiny doesn't work for me.


----------



## Just_Iain

I just found it on the Canadian LeeValley site. After exchange, about $10US cheaper up here. I'll try to get to the store tomorrow to see if they have them on display.


----------



## bandit571

Are those solid brass bolts? wonder how long before the threads strip out from use? Or, some strongarmed fellow twists the head of the bolt off, trying to tighten it down a smidge more….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thanks for posting, Wayne. It's a very attractive tool, although I'm not sure the 17 brass knobs aren't just a tad busy to my eye.










That's a nitpick, of course, and they'll mellow in color over time.

What I don't think I'll get over quite so fast is the price. That's simply a bunch of $. I wonder how it will compete with the (seemingly) endless supply of 405 Records and 45 Stanleys out there? But then, it won't compete because it doesn't have to. If you're a 'new' guy, you'll get it. If you're a Veritas guy, you'll get it.

Wonder when LN will come out with theirs?


----------



## Mosquito

I'm with ya Smitty, and agree with the analysis. I would certainly love to see LN finally release a plow plane… Not hat I'd be able to justify that either lol


----------



## DavePolaschek

My LV combination plane arrived yesterday. Hoping to finish unboxing it and taking photos tonight. Probably be a while before I can do a real review, but it sure is pretty.


----------



## WayneC

> My LV combination plane arrived yesterday. Hoping to finish unboxing it and taking photos tonight. Probably be a while before I can do a real review, but it sure is pretty.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Congratulations.


----------



## Mosquito

Sweet! Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it


----------



## DavePolaschek

The only blade in the box was the stock 1/4" one. I'm hoping the other blades I ordered aren't too delayed.

But if you want to see it in person, Mos, we can probably figure something out.


----------



## Mosquito

I would totally take you up on that Dave. I can supply a #45 (or 2 or 30) for comparison purposes if we wanted to lol


----------



## WayneC

> I would totally take you up on that Dave. I can supply a #45 (or 2 or 30) for comparison purposes if we wanted to lol
> 
> - Mosquito


Also, cutter compatibility test.


----------



## Mosquito

That would be one of my main objectives with a comparison. The irons are expensive, but modern steel


----------



## WayneC

How much of an issue is edge retention on combination plane blades?


----------



## DavePolaschek

PM sent. Let's figure out the details and we can report back.


----------



## Mosquito

I haven't had too much of an issue with it Wayne, but having to sharpen beading, or reeding irons has never been something I've liked doing lol


----------



## WayneC

I was just thinking that steel quality would have a bigger impact on bench planes. Was there any innovation in profiles for the Veritas cutters?


----------



## DavePolaschek

I didn't notice any surprising cutters in the list at the show, but I haven't gone back and looked at the entire list since they posted it on the website.


----------



## Mosquito

Not really, I don't think.  I believe they're largely just different size variations on the original stock and special irons


----------



## WayneC

Are there hollows and rounds.


----------



## Mosquito

None that they've mentioned yet, just groove/dado/rabbet irons, beading, reeding, fluting, and the T&G iron that they've shown so far


----------



## WayneC

They are pretty.


----------



## Mosquito

And from the looks of the irons, it seems like they're either planning to make a left hand version of the combination plane, or made the irons in a way such that they could make a left hand version if they wanted to in the future


----------



## WayneC

It may be from the perspective so some of their other ploughs. I think the blades may already compatible with left and right handed planes.


----------



## DavePolaschek

You can put the fence on the other side and convert the right-handed plane into a left-handed plane, Mos.


----------



## WayneC




----------



## Mosquito

I'm aware of the put the fence on the other side thing, but to me that's not truely left handed, that's right handed with the fence on backwards lol Your main skate isn't going to be furthest from the fence anymore. How much that matters I'm not sure, but it's still not quite the same. It matters less with the Veritas because it has the blade tightening mechanism on the top of the plane rather than the side, but that's a bit like saying you can use a Diston D8 with thumb hole left handed too. You can, it's just not as comfortable

And that's true Wayne, they're probably just recycling the irons from other planes for this one.


----------



## WayneC

Does it come with long and short rails. Are the rails interchangeable among their ploughs?


----------



## Mosquito

According to their PDF a pair of 5" and 8" rods are both included, not sure on compatibility, but would think so. Why have more sizes on hand than you need to?


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Your main skate isn't going to be furthest from the fence anymore.


Pretty sure the main skate is right down the middle of the body, so it's the same distance from either side.


----------



## Mosquito

if you switch the fence to the other side the order (from outside to inside) is fence, main skate, secondary skate. Compare that to the right handed fence position, and you've got fence, secondary skate, main skate. Like I said, not sure it would do much, if anything, different in use, but it's a difference regardless, but that's what I meant by furthest from the fence


----------



## DavePolaschek

Ok. Just finished unboxing, and yeah, it's not identical if you turn the fence around. But it's not going to behave any differently either, as far as I can tell.


----------



## WayneC

I finally got a Record 405. Missing a couple of parts and cutters. Need to make a box for it.


----------



## Mosquito

Awesome Wayne!


----------



## WayneC

Thanks.


----------



## theoldfart

Welcome to the Record club Wayne. Should pair up with those Record H&R's nicely.


----------



## DanKrager

Wayne, want a photo of a box with Record in it?

DanK


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm….









Cutter #6 at work…..followed by..









A #11 straight cutter….to make a corner joint..









Had to adjust the depth stop a hair..









Allfour corners are now glued up…









Just a small box, nothing fancy…


----------



## Mosquito

Assuming all goes according to plan, I'll be heading to Dave's shop tomorrow morning, for a little comparison between the Veritas combination plane, and the #45 (I have both a later type and earlier type packed).

If anyone catches this post between now and 9am CST, what sorts of things do you want us to check out?

My list is as follows so far:

General size comparison
Are the irons cross-compatible
Compare rod diameters and spacing
I have a pair of H&R bases, will see if those fit.
Are the bolts solid brass


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Are the Veritas adjustments 'more fine' than legacy Stanley combo allows? Does it perform easentially identically, or are there tangible differences? Which works better cross-grain (if either)?


----------



## WayneC

Ha. Just logged in to ask you to check adjustment and Smitty beat me to it.

I heard some complaint about the nickers. Check them out in general. Are the nickers cross-compatible?


----------



## DavePolaschek

The only snag for a full comparison is that the only blade I have for my Veritas combination plane is the 1/4" that comes with it. Apparently the order for the other blades didn't make it back to the Lee Valley shop from Handworks, so I've ordered them again, but they haven't arrived yet.

I'm looking forward to seeing the differences, too.


----------



## Mosquito

That's a bummer, always annoying when you have to wait longer after already waiting lol


----------



## GlenintheNorth

1. What's the weight like? How much heavier/lighter is it than a 45?

2. Sharpening the 1/4" iron, how does that compare to sharpening the vintage iron?

2a. What is the edge retention like in heavy use? Longer or shorter than the vintage iron? Will you run test grooves until it dulls to find out?

3. Is the design more stable out in the middle of a board than a 45, i.e., will it be easier to keep it vertical in grooving far from the edge or center beading?

I'm sure I can think of more but I checked LJ before I checked my coffee..


----------



## DavePolaschek

> That s a bummer, always annoying when you have to wait longer after already waiting lol


Yeah. Lee Valley has always had great customer service for me, and things were a little chaotic at Handworks, so I'm willing to cut them some slack. Plus the blades are coming with free shipping. Just wish they'd arrived with the plane, or even yesterday, instead of having to wait until next week.


----------



## Mosquito

> 1. What s the weight like? How much heavier/lighter is it than a 45?
> 
> 2. Sharpening the 1/4" iron, how does that compare to sharpening the vintage iron?
> 
> 2a. What is the edge retention like in heavy use? Longer or shorter than the vintage iron? Will you run test grooves until it dulls to find out?
> 
> 3. Is the design more stable out in the middle of a board than a 45, i.e., will it be easier to keep it vertical in grooving far from the edge or center beading?
> 
> I m sure I can think of more but I checked LJ before I checked my coffee..
> 
> - GlenintheNorth


Definitely didn't spend the time to run grooves until they're both dull, we weren't that bored lol

We did try center-beading with both, though. I'll have a more thorough set of findings written up later, but we met, planes were used, comparisons were made, pictures were taken.


----------



## Just_Iain

Time to think about refurbishing my 2 45s. Anyone got suggestions on removing the rosewood knob and totes? I know I'm being lazy by not going thru the 1651 comments in this topic but even I have limits.


----------



## bandit571

DonW did a thread about that..IIRC…..those pins only go in so far, may have to drive them on through, maybe through a predrilled hole?


----------



## Just_Iain

> DonW did a thread about that..IIRC…..those pins only go in so far, may have to drive them on through, maybe through a predrilled hole?
> 
> - bandit571


Thanks Bandit, I found the thread and you drill into the pin, turn in a drywall screw and gently turn till the pin starts to rotate. Then pull out will still turning to keep the screw engaged.


----------



## Mosquito

And the knob is easy. There's either nut on top, or you just unscrew the knob, depending on what type it is


----------



## DavePolaschek

Glad we got to compare the 45s and the new Veritas. Thanks for bringing them by, Mos! I'm happy I bought the new shiny after looking at the 45s. I probably could have gotten nearly as good buying vintage, but I have plenty of projects in my queue, and I probably wouldn't have a nicely working 45 for a few more months because it would take me a while to tune up whatever I bought.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sounds like Dave was none too impressed with your #45s, Mos. ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

LOL I should have really brought my main user #45 but it wasn't as convenient. I'll have my full analysis when I do the write up (which I'm working on at the moment). I'm trying to decide how best to post it. Right now I'm about 1/2 way through and it's already 1-1/2 pages in word lol


----------



## DavePolaschek

Actually, I *was* impressed with Mos' 45s. But they've been cleaned up and tuned by an expert. The ones I looked at would've been a couple hundred, and would've still needed work to make them good. For $400, I got a new shiny that works out of the box, and everything is tight. There's a lot to be said for getting to know a tool by rebuilding it, but I've got enough projects on my list already, that I'm happy not to have to add another.


----------



## Mosquito

Truth be told, I hadn't cleaned either one of those, and hadn't ever used that particular #45 either lol Neither were bargain basement price, though, so there's also that… But, cleaning up and de-rusting a #45 is so far one of the most annoying planes I've restored to date. So many little pieces and tight areas to try to clean up…

I'm done writing, and before the editing pass I'm at just over 9 pages in word… almost 3,00 characters. Maybe I should have just shot video lol


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Maybe I should have just shot video lol


Oh geez. The way we were jumping all over the map, editing down a video would take weeks.


----------



## Mosquito

Also true lol

I'm thinking I might make this a blog post, or maybe a blog series to break it up to 6 different posts

Intro/table of contents
General comparison
Irons comparison
Rods/Fences Comparison
Thoughts on use
Conclusions


----------



## DanKrager

You writin' a BOOK, Mos? lol.

...it'll be interesting. Thank you for doing it.

DanK


----------



## Just_Iain

Looking forward to it. It would answer the question of restore and keep the 2 45s I got that need a lot of attention and a number of parts or restore and sell to get the Veritas. Decisions, decisions. I should take one of my 45s over to one of the local LV stores and do a hands on. I've handled the Veritas as I have the 45's but it was a month apart and the 45s do need a lot of TLC.


----------



## Mosquito

Dan, as anyone who's hung out with me can tell you, I'm not a man of few words lol


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Yuh Mos talk engrish gud.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> I'm thinking I might make this a blog post, or maybe a blog series to break it up to 6 different posts


That sounds relatively reasonable. We did cover a lot of ground with them, and they do have seven functions in one. But as you pointed out, almost nobody uses all seven forms of fun.


----------



## Mosquito

For those of you who aren't "buddies" on here, the blog has been posted. For those of you who are "buddies" on here, sorry for the notification e-mail spam lol

http://lumberjocks.com/Mosquito/blog/series/19345


----------



## dbray45

Dave - You make a good point. When I bought my 55, it was obvious that it was only used as a rabbet plane because only 2 blades were worn. The rest had the factory sharpen (which is not real sharp). It took a couple of afternoons sharpening all of the blades.

Just ordered the beading blades from LV, will see how sharp they are. Would have liked them better if they were the PV steel.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I'm not sure I would wish for PM-V11 steel, David. Other people have been complaining about PM-V11 irons (for bench planes) being majorly back-ordered and facing months of delays. I like the new steel, but when I ordered my pair of skew rabbet planes, they were out of stock on the PV-11 irons, and I was happy enough with the A2. I read through Lee Valley's technote on the different steels and my take is that I'm probably happiest with O-1.

Then again, I don't mind sharpening once I actually get started on it. I enjoy it in fact. It's just sometimes hard to get started. I think the fluting irons are only available in PM-V11, which I haven't quite figured out, but I figure Veritas know what they're doing.

All that said, the 1/4" that came with the combination plane was sharp enough to take nice shavings out of the box. I didn't make time to hone it before Mos showed up on Saturday.


----------



## WayneC

Dave,

What cutters do you have in the mail?


----------



## DavePolaschek

All the tongue & grooves (minus the 1/4" groove I already have), plus the 1/2" straight groove and the 1-1/16" rabbet blade. I have a LN Beading Tool with a full set of blades for beading / fluting already, plus a shop-made beading tool, so I don't need that functionality today.

The goal is to use the Veritas combo plane to groove in the bottoms / backs of the various tills / boxes I need to build to hold my tools while I improve my skills. I desperately need to get that missing 2/3 of my bench-top back. :-/


----------



## Mosquito

Made some tinder material last night and tonight. Apparently, my wide rabbet iron needs some work, though. It's plenty sharp, but not flat…


----------



## KentInOttawa

Some Veritas-supplied info about the new plough plane.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Would someone who has a slitting cutter for their 45 or other combo plane be willing to share the dimension of the cutter with me. I'm thinking either a 1/4" or 5/16" adjustment slot but don't know what length the slot needs to be. I also don't know the placement of the slot from the cutting end. I'm guessing a 1-1/4"? Any help would be appreciated. 
Thanks
Mike


----------



## bandit571

The one I have is a 1/4" slot. Slot is 15/16" long. From the end of the slot to the "point" is 1-3/16" 









Hope this helps.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Perfect Bandit. Thanks very Kindly.
Mike


----------



## Mosquito

This is a carry over from my Veritas comparison blog series, but figured I'd bring it here…



> Mos, there was talk over there about that blade alignment feature you were impressed with. Seems there was a short-lived variant in the #55 line that actually had such a thing. No pictures accompanied the talk, sadly, but it appears Stanley adopted such a thing for at least one type of multiplane.
> 
> I found that interesting, as you had mentioned it as being a plus for the Veritas.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I believe I've figured out what they were talking about, and I think I've found an example. It looks like it must have only been on the later types of the #55. (photo from an eBay listing)










I don't think it was blade alignment, but rather blade support. I think what they were saying was that there's a screw that gets put in the highlighted threaded hole in the vertically moving skate, that will support the back of the blade so you can keep extending the blade beyond the main skate, and still use it (for stopped grooves, apparently). If I happen into one, I'll have to give that a try


----------



## GlenintheNorth

I have that on my 55. It was on more than one type. There is a hole under the tote on the main casting to store the screw when you're not using it.


----------



## Mosquito

More than one type I'm sure, but still the later types right? Neither of my #55's have it, which is probably why I didn't know about it.

Also, just like that, I've happened into one… lol


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Ill try to ppst pics when i get home.

My center skate has a 3-corner nicker but the has that single edge spur.


----------



## WayneC

Mine has it. I'll also look for the screw.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

The *main casting* has the single spur. Correction.

Anyway, pics. The first is where it works, the second is where it lives.



















Yeah I don't this much. As it turns out, I haven't used it at all. I had to clean rust off just to get the center skate on past the edge of the cutter!

The purpose is to keep from knocking the cutter out of alignment.


----------



## CO_Goose

Cross-Posting from the Rust Hunting thread:

I picked up a Wards Master branded Stanley 45. It appears to be all there, however the box sat in some water and there is surface rust in places, and the manual is toast.



















The plane itself is in great shape, and it has a full compliment of irons, and all of those fiddly-bits, including the ever-coveted screwdriver. The little envelope is a couple more nickers.










Light rust everywhere, nothing a little WD-40 and brass brush can't take care of.










Two of the adjusting knobs are red, and it appears that is factory. 
The spare irons are in a cardboard box with this label.










Most of the irons appear untouched.


















Now to hone the blades, knock off the rust, and get this one making shavings.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks for the pictures gents. The question is, do I sacrifice a #45 to try that?..

Great looking Wards Master CO_Goose. That didn't happen to be on eBay not long ago did it? I was watching one that looked in similar condition. Was thinking about expanding to the "Stanley Made" combination planes for my collection too lol Yes the red is from the factory. It's the fastest way to identify it in most eBay listings. Craftsmans are a little trickier


----------



## CO_Goose

Not on eBay Mos, at a garage sale.


----------



## Mosquito

Perfect, I've yet to find a decent one locally not at an MWTCA meet


----------



## WayneC

I would love to go to a MWTCA meet.


----------



## Mosquito

Our next Area A meet is October 21st, you buy the plane tickets and you can be my guest, I'll even pay


----------



## GlenintheNorth

That might entice me to go then. I was thinking of skipping this one.


----------



## CO_Goose

Following up on the Wards Master. First, I cleaned it all up. Not too difficult a job, the worst rust was on the bow of the skate that normally has "Stanley" on it, but was ground off for Montgomery Wards to sell it.










I made a replacement cover for the irons out of wood since the cardboard one was in sad shape. I scanned the sticker, and cleaned it up in Photoshop, and printed it out on label paper.










Well, once that was done, I just had to make a special box for it, the one that it came in was water damaged, so I searched Lumberjocks for ideas, and settled on a Christopher Schwarz styled Japanese toolbox that I resized to the dimensions that I needed. First I needed a wider board, so out came the tongue with the Wards,










And the groove with my other 45.



















Smoothed it out with the trusty #6










The resulting glue up looks like this:










I found that the setup for the T&G was easier than I expected. The depth settings were set using a harbor freight depth gauge, nothing accurate, they just had to match each other. And the centering on the boards was fairly easy as well. A couple of swipes on a test board, and then the fine adjustment on the skate tuned it right in so that there was almost no mis-alignment between the boards, nothing that the #6 didn't clean up in a couple of passes. This was way easier than the T&G that I had done on the table saw, I'm sold on the 45's for this function.

Stay tuned for Part 2…


----------



## CO_Goose

Part 2

Thanks to Brad, and his 45 box build thread here: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/196978, I stole his graphics for the Stanley labels, (Thanks, Brad), and found some handle hardware that had the appropriate beefy look in black, and finished the box, using 1/4" walnut dowels.










The sides and interior braces are pine. I thought that the wood that I was using for the base and lid were also pine, however once I cleaned them up, it turned out to be cherry, which will be better for the wear and tear on the base. I made fitted locations for all of the parts inside, and I can tilt the box at least 45 degrees in all directions without anything moving. Here are some pictures of the completed box.



















Interior views, the 45 rests in a groove cut into a board that is glued to the bottom of the box. there is a stop block for the back of the skate and an overhang on the front of the skate to keep it secure when tilted. The long rods are held captive at the end of the box, and the spare nickers are in a ziplock bag that is between the rods.



















And a detail shot of the corner joinery.










The whole thing has a coat of Boiled Linseed Oil for some protection since it is a tool box, and not fine furniture.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Nice looking container for your 45!


----------



## Pimzedd

Nice box. Why don't you post this as a blog or a project so LJ's could favorite it. I know .I would.

Thanks.


----------



## Tim457

Wow, great job. I agree, definitely post that as a project. My tongue and groove planes don't match in width that well, may have to bust out the 55 to do some until I can get a chance to make a new blade for the groove plane.


----------



## DanKrager

That's simply terrific, Goose. Very inspiring.

DanK


----------



## Mosquito

Really nice looking plane there, and the box is awesome!


----------



## CO_Goose

Thanks Guys! I am glad that you enjoyed it. I will look into making a blog post, and adding some more detail to the build.


----------



## CO_Goose

OK Bill, Here is the Blog on the box:

http://lumberjocks.com/CO_Goose/blog/113474


----------



## Pimzedd

Thanks, that is great. Appreciate it.


----------



## Pimzedd

Thanks, that is great. Appreciate it.


----------



## mikey78

Hello guys,
I've just finished my Stanley 45 plane restoration …. 
The only thing I still need to do is sharpening cutters !!!
I've gone through a good number of replies but could not read them all,
so I'm here to ask what is the correct bevel angle for 45's irons ?
Is the angle the same for all the cutters ?
Thanks for your help !!!


----------



## DLK

Don't over think this. Flatten the backs and keep the bevel the same as they are!

It will be around 25 to 30 degrees the same as you would for a chisel or plane blade.

Here is a good video.

I often just touch up the flat or convex ones with a diamond paddle or handheld india or arkansas stone and handheld stop free hand. By holding the cutter in my hand and drawing the paddle, stone and strop over the iron.

Or use the method that Paul sellers uses for knives and spokeshaves.

For the concave irons you need a round arkansas file or wrap sandpaper over a dowel.


----------



## smitdog

Awesome job on that plane and box Goose!
I am kicking myself after looking through all these posts for not buying what I believe was a 45 ages ago at a local antique store. It was sitting in a dusty corner along with a couple other random old tools and it peaked my interest. I didn't know what the heck it was as I hadn't gotten into woodworking yet. By the time I had gained the knowledge, the store had closed down…


----------



## bandit571

Was wanting a better look for the top of a tray…..used a #23 (1/4") bead cutter..









To make a few beads..










Looks better, now, when I open the lid…









The hard part was getting across the corners…









Pins were getting in the way..


----------



## Tim457

> Awesome job on that plane and box Goose!
> I am kicking myself after looking through all these posts for not buying what I believe was a 45 ages ago at a local antique store. It was sitting in a dusty corner along with a couple other random old tools and it peaked my interest. I didn t know what the heck it was as I hadn t gotten into woodworking yet. By the time I had gained the knowledge, the store had closed down…
> 
> - smitdog


smitty, console yourself with the fact that it was almost certainly missing a lot of parts and buying the parts to complete it would have cost you more than buying a complete one today. But yeah, the ones that got away still haunt me sometimes too.


----------



## CO_Goose

> Awesome job on that plane and box Goose!
> I am kicking myself after looking through all these posts for not buying what I believe was a 45 ages ago at a local antique store. It was sitting in a dusty corner along with a couple other random old tools and it peaked my interest. I didn t know what the heck it was as I hadn t gotten into woodworking yet. By the time I had gained the knowledge, the store had closed down…
> 
> - smitdog


Thanks Smitty.

I have been looking at estate sales and garage sales for tools for the last couple of years. Many sales are a bust. But I keep looking, and eventually, you find things. Read the Blog that Brad posted about searching for old tools here: http://lumberjocks.com/planepassion/blog/54858 There are lots of great tips to finding tools. Also the "Joys of Rust Hunting" thread/blog http://lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/41460 is a great inspiration to get out there and dig through the rust.

Goose


----------



## glideking

My first post on LJ.

Sash OG cutter I had for years in a pile of #55 parts. Most I have seen are ovolo so worth getting this OG to work. Perhaps this is a #2 special cutter. Rust pits were deep so I ground it down with a belt sander. Went through the stones and polished on leather. I was happy to find the high carbon laminations at the tip. Very important to sharpen so that the skates take the same thickness shaving on each side. I was blown away by how well my first bar came out using a #45 on redwood.

Video of cutter in use
Video click here:


----------



## Mosquito

> My first post on LJ.
> 
> Sash OG cutter I had for years in a pile of #55 parts. Most I have seen are ovolo so worth getting this OG to work. Perhaps this is a #2 special cutter. Rust pits were deep so I ground it down with a belt sander. Went through the stones and polished on leather. I was happy to find the high carbon laminations at the tip. Very important to sharpen so that the skates take the same thickness shaving on each side. I was blown away by how well my first bar came out using a #45 on redwood.
> 
> Video of the cutter in use
> Video click here:
> 
> - glideking


Welcome to LJ! Video is cool, but can't see any of the photobucket pictures. You'll have to host them somewhere else, or upload them through LumberJocks to share them, since PhotoBucket decided to block that feature for non-paying members.


----------



## glideking

Pictures are important. My editing time ran out on that reply. I will try to add photos again here. Some photos come out upside down. I will get this!


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, that cutter sure was in rough shape when it started wasn't it. Nice save!

And yeah, the LJ photo upload stuff can be finicky sometimes lol


----------



## Tim457

Wow, that was in bad shape, you saved that one. Nice sash too, are you planning on making a window or just testing?


----------



## DLK

Nice save on the sash cutter. And I enjoyed your video. I particularly like your last line: "How would you like to make a house full of these?" My response is "yes, yes I would."


----------



## bandit571

Picked a LORAY sharpener kit yesterday…wondering IF I could use it on the straight cutters….Just a dollar for the kit…









Wondering if it would work on the bevel….









Not sure if chisels would fit…









Just a dollar…


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Glide just tell everyone you're Australian. No need to mess with your photos then.


----------



## RWE

Hello everyone. I just picked up a Craftsman/Sargent 1080 off of Ebay. I was in the shop knocking the rust off of the parts. When I came in and looked at the Handplanes forum I saw mention of this forum by CO_Goose. So I hope you don't mind a lowly Craftsman/Sargent in the conversation. I make boxes and small pieces of furniture. I was wanting a combo to use the plow function. So I look forward to learning about technique. Here are some pictures before the rust was taken off.









I got 23 cutters, no slitter.









Everything is cleaning up nicely, no major pitting on the cutters.

I will post a picture or two once I reassemble it after cleaning the pieces.

If there are are any Sargent experts on the forum, I think this is a type II. I would appreciate an opinion. I actually read that Stanley made the 1080 in the later production period for Sargent. That made me wonder if my Craftsman is a Stanley made Sargent labeled as Craftsman.


----------



## Mosquito

> So I hope you don t mind a lowly Craftsman/Sargent in the conversation.
> 
> - RWE


Not at all! I've been wanting to add one to my collection for a while, just haven't found an enticing enough deal to pull the trigger yet. Too many other things on the list that take priority at the moment.



> If there are are any Sargent experts on the forum, I think this is a type II. I would appreciate an opinion. I actually read that Stanley made the 1080 in the later production period for Sargent. That made me wonder if my Craftsman is a Stanley made Sargent labeled as Craftsman.
> 
> - RWE


Sargent did make the early craftsman combination planes, as well as the Fulton combination planes.

When Stanley was making the 1080 planes for Sargent, they looked just like the Stanley #45s (since they just used modified casting molds). 








http://www.sargent-planes.com/sargent-1080-combination-plane-stanley-made/

The Craftsman planes were also made by Stanley at that point, and consequently also look the same.

23 cutters would put it as type 2, but you could just be missing 2 irons (if you have 11 groove/dado/rabbet irons that's more of a sign it's type 2). It's either a 1080 or 1080PB, if you don't have the box, you'll never know  (I'd guess 1080PB as it seems more likely that the cardboard box would go missing than the wooden box.)

Either way, it looks nice.


----------



## RWE

Mos: I think it is a type 2 and I will post pictures later. All I can say is that I watched your tutorial videos on the 45 and now I want the adjustable fence.

It is definitely a 1080 PB (Craftsman model). I got the original box (paste board) but it had no discernible markings on the box. I think it may have never been used, or at least only slightly used since I can see no wear on any of the cutters and none of them show signs of having been flattened or sharpened. The rust and patina appear to be from moisture while sitting on the shelf in the box. The cloth that was used to store the cutters seemed to have pulled in some moisture, but they cleaned up nicely.

I plowed a couple of groves in some walnut to test it. Once I get it cleaned and the cutters sharpened, I think it will be a nice plane. I have mostly Stanley conventional planes. I have one Craftsman Jack that was made by Sargent and I have always liked it. I don't see Sargent with any frequency in the Southeast. I passed on a very nice Sargent Hercules Jack this last weekend. I have more Jacks than I need, so I did not need another one to sit on the shelf. But I loved the color scheme on that Hercules. Dang, I should have picked it up.


----------



## RWE

The knock on combo planes that I had heard (blame ole Roy Underhill) was that you spent too much time getting them set up. Well Roy has a universe of old tools, so he can grab a single purpose plane for this and single purpose saw for that. So I decided to get two planes so that I could keep them set up for whatever I had going on. For box making, I would use the plow to cut a grove to fit bottoms and lids. I would use the rabbetting function to cut rabbets on the lids and bottoms. If I ever do tongue and grove, I could set up the two planes and go at that.

Yesterday I posted a picture of the Craftsman/Sargent 1080 that I picked up. I am sharpening the cutters now. Today I picked this up. It is in poor shape, but I have refurbed so many planes that it does not look too bad to me. It will never win a beauty contest, but hopefully it will be a decent user.

Mos had the video with the 45 with the adjustable fence and that grabbed my imagination.

My new 45, Ebay junker to be refurbed:










It has the adjustable fence, so I hope to bring it back to glory.

Does anyone know if the Stanley will accept the cutters from a Sargent. The Stanley takes the side notch and the Sargent has a side notch and top notch. So I think the Stanley would accept the Sargent, but not the other way around. If not, I will be shopping for Stanley cutters.


----------



## Mosquito

> Does anyone know if the Stanley will accept the cutters from a Sargent. The Stanley takes the side notch and the Sargent has a side notch and top notch. So I think the Stanley would accept the Sargent, but not the other way around. If not, I will be shopping for Stanley cutters.
> 
> - RWE


I haven't tried it myself, but I would say that the Sargent irons should work in a #45, but you may end up having to push the iron with the depth adjustment on the end of the iron, rather than the notch in the middle. With the Sargent plane, it pushes on the end of the iron where that notch is to adjust the iron deeper. The side notch is only used for retracting the iron, and won't work to extend it out with a #45 (the side slot in the Sargent irons has an angle to it). So yes, you should be able to use them, but they may not be as easy to set up as the proper irons. That said, once set up it wouldn't be hard to leave it that way lol


----------



## Tim457

> The knock on combo planes that I had heard (blame ole Roy Underhill) was that you spent too much time getting them set up. Well Roy has a universe of old tools, so he can grab a single purpose plane for this and single purpose saw for that. - RWE


If you watch what he actually uses when he needs to in an episode not about the planes, he uses his 45 a lot when a wooden or iron single purpose plane would work just fine. Even in the show on combination planes he says he prefers the wooden planes, but in the end he basically concludes the combination planes work well.


----------



## Mosquito

Personal preferences are personal 

I've had better luck with my H&R bases than my wooden H&R planes. Mainly because the #45 is tuned up all the time, whereas the wooden H&R planes I have need to be tuned up


----------



## RWE

I have spent several years now building up a hand tool collection. I prefer the flea market approach because I enjoy bringing old saws and planes back to life. There is a major geographical component in the flea market/Craiglist approach. In the South you just don't have the selection that you have in the Northeast. I can't speak about other sections of the country, but I have traded emails with folks in the Northeast and they tell me that you can find mitre boxes at garage sales and flea markets all day long. I have yet to see a mitre box for sale. I saw the first jointer plane (Millers Falls) this last weekend. It is all block, smoother and jack planes and no H&R (at least no H&R that you would want).

I have looked for a metal plow plane. I have looked for a wooden plane to cut grooves. Cannot find them. So I have had to go to Ebay and as a practical matter the 45 and Sargent Combos make more sense. Plus they are just cool. I may get around to having some usable H&R planes, but for now, practicality and finances dictate staying with metal.


----------



## Mosquito

I have enough #45s that a full set of H&Rs would take up less space, but that's not the point lol The #45 was actually the 3rd or 4th plane I ever got. The engineering on the combination planes of all varieties is fun to mess around with


----------



## RWE

Ok. I can hold my head up proudly now. I just got in the Stanley 45. It seems to be a Sweetheart model, has the heart and SW. I assume that sets the date pretty well. I will get pictures up later, it is taking a bath now.

Here is the Craftsman/Sargent 1080 cleaned up. I got all of the 90 degree cutters sharpened. I believe that I came in with 23 total.


----------



## dubois

Here I am with a combination plane, (and more), in action.


----------



## Just_Iain

The last few days I won 2 more 45s on eBay. One is just the main body and will be to provide parts for the 2 awaiting restoration. The other I snagged today is one labeled for 'parts or repair and appears to be in good condition. I grabbed the one today as it might be in better shape than what is in storage. The 2 I snagged last summer are in rough shape so with luck I might be able to assemble one working fairly quickly and the other might not be that far behind. From 3 1/2 is the hope. Seemingly I think I have parts for 2 type 6 (or it could be 1 type 6 and 1 type 7) and 2 type 12 but until I get them together, it's looking and trying to remember.

I'm definitely on the slippery slope as I finally got all the parts together for the Record 045C and need to start sharpening it and I need some wood for the fence…


----------



## RWE

Anyone want to give me a reasonable price for a Cam for a type 12-14 Sweetheart 45. There is one on Ebay now and the price is climbing. I am not sure if you actually would use one in the first place. Need some feedback if you have a minute.


----------



## bandit571

Depends on how wide a board you are working on….and where in the width. I needed mine a couple times, and should have used it on a few more.

Maybe check what BIN price Eric @ nhplaneparts is asking? There was only two styles of cams….Second type would be the best bet. Type "1"...a bolt tightens a split clamp….bolt comes up missing too often. Type "2" a bolt pushes against a brass rod inside the cam, which then pushes against the rod.

BTW; mine is a Type 20 ( Roxton Pond, QUE. Canada.) SW model. Takes the same as your plane.


----------



## RWE

Before:










After cleaning:










Sweetheart Logo if anyone knows which type this would be. I read that the later Sweetheart logos had script? So this makes me think 12 or 13??










Missing knob, need picture of proper knob for this model. I can turn one or go to my box of plane parts, or fork out some more money for one on Ebay.










Thanks Bandit. I won a type 1 Cam, missed on a Type 2. Got it for $16.50 which may or may not be a bit rich. I still need a knob for the fence. *Hopefully someone can let me know the knob style for the type 12*. I have been amazed that there is not more in the way of type studies for the 45. I guess the plane is so complex, that it was hard to keep up with all of the changes for a type study.


----------



## bandit571

How about this?









Would that work?









Need any other views?


----------



## RWE

Thanks. There were two styles on Ebay. One had a longer stem at the bottom and a narrower top. The other looks like your knob above, more round. I will check out Ebay or see what I have in spares that might work. Looks like yours is rosewood or is it stained? That answers that question. Really appreciate it.


----------



## bandit571

Rosewood…


----------



## WillliamMSP

This is just ridiculously stupid.

I want one really badly.


----------



## Just_Iain

> This is just ridiculously stupid.
> 
> I want one really badly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - WillliamMSP


I've eyed it as way to get some really fine slots for small boxes. So very tempting I make it a point to avoid when I drop into LV.


----------



## Mosquito

haha that's awesome. I haven't seen it before. I wonder if you could palm grip it like the Record 043?


----------



## BlasterStumps

glideking, nice work on the sash cutter. Nice to see an old tool go back to work. I got some blades that I need to spend some time on. Hopefully, I can get them working again too.

I like the single cab in the cage too. I presume it is in there for bodywork. Cool.

Mike


----------



## dbray45

I have several of the LV miniatures. I actually use them. The router is great for small hinges


----------



## Mosquito

Not sure that I'm going to keep the boxes in there.. Maybe just the one for the Type 21 (The one labeled 45E). I've already got 4 or 5 boxes stashed in the drawers and cupboard part below.


----------



## glideking

If you have enough 45s you could have one of each cutter set up all the time.

Now let's see full sets of honed cutters for each one you have!

I am totally enjoying your display.


----------



## Mosquito

Lol I do have enough for a whole set of standard irons and then some lol

Having a set of sharpened irons for each is a goal, but a long term one lol I'd say I have a set of irons for maybe 2/3 of them at the moment


----------



## Tim457

Nice display Mos. To go with the stands you showed in the SOTS thread, you could put one plane on its box in each row instead of the single holder. You have the boxes, might as well display a few too.


----------



## Mosquito

I had thought about that, but the box for the Type 17 is the only one that lines up correctly lol Also, I'm not sure what I'm going to do about the Type 21… It's really only the box that signifies Type 21 as it says 45E


----------



## rmander

Hello I am new to posting to this forum, but I have been a fan and follower for some time. Here are some photos of crown moldings for a bay window made with my combination planes;









Center section done with 12H attatchment









I have a extra fence on the rgt side of my 45 to make sticking and guiding the plane easier









Lots of shaving!


----------



## DanKrager

Nicely done in a beautiful shop! Save those shavings for packing stuff….

DanK


----------



## CL810

Man that looks great rmander! And shaving show you know how to sharpen. I'd love to hear your approach to sharpening 45 blades.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks like that crown profile needed a couple "R" attachments, too.


----------



## Mosquito

Gorgeous work rmander. Was that done with a combination of an ogee iron, the #12H base, rabbet and Sash iron? That sounds like a lot of work, but it sure turned out fantastic!


----------



## rmander

CL810 After I polish the back for the curved cutters (flute, reed, bead, H&R, and 55 cutters) I freehand the profile with a round ceramic rod, either from a "crock stick" 1/4" dia or the from those little plastic units with the 1/8" dia rods. They cost under $10 and I carefully cut away the plastic to salvage the rods. I then mounted them in a wooden dowel to make them easier to hold. Spydico also make a 4 profile (square, round, triangle, teardrop) ceramic rod set that has come in handy. The rods are so fine that I have barley removed the factor grind marks on many of the cutters after several years of sharpening. I really like the way that the High carbon steel of the old Stanley cutters sharpen up quick and will hold an edge for 30-50 ln ft of clear pine before they need touched up. 
And that is usually just a quick honing. Also if I run into a small knot I will drip a little turpentine to soak the knot and it will usually profile nicely.


----------



## rmander

> Gorgeous work rmander. Was that done with a combination of an ogee iron, the #12H base, rabbet and Sash iron? That sounds like a lot of work, but it sure turned out fantastic!
> 
> - Mosquito


I believe that I used a #38 in the 45 and #86 in the 55 , #12H for the center cove and a Rabbit, shoulder, or Fillister to remove waste or establish a shoulder. I friend of mine new to woodworking found a 45&55 at a yard sale for cheap and I was showing him what they were capable of and that he did not need a expensive shaper/router to do molding work.









This small corner cabinet was the example pcs


----------



## Mosquito

So a fluting iron and a reverse ogee. I got the ogee right, but I see now where I was mistaken on the sash iron, oops. That corner cabnet looks awesome. How long does it take to cut all that molding by hand?


----------



## DLK

Very very nice.


----------



## rmander

> So a fluting iron and a reverse ogee. I got the ogee right, but I see now where I was mistaken on the sash iron, oops. That corner cabnet looks awesome. How long does it take to cut all that molding by hand?
> 
> - Mosquito


 I keep a 12" section of each profile I make so I can duplicate it in the future. It's tough (for me) to guess by pictures. After the cutters and wood are ready about 15-20mins per profile so I estimate about 2-3hrs. I think that there were 7 different profiles (2 on crown molding). The nice thing is that not much sanding or scraping to remove tools marks is required.









Molding detail.


----------



## Mosquito

Oops… Where'd that one come from… :-D


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have a 45 I picked up at a Habitat store. When I found it there were no cutters with it. Since then, I found a set of Wards cutters but gone missing was the 1/4" cutter. I'm wondering how much the 5/16" cutter would be used if ever. I am contemplating making it into a 1/4" so I can do slots for drawer bottoms. That's probably the one thing the 45 will be used for more than any other in my shop. Before I get to grinding on the 5/16" cutter I just thought I would see if you 45 owners have a better idea. 
Mike


----------



## DLK

A 1/4" cutter would be easy to make or you can buy one from Saint James bay tool company. (See also his ebay store.) Give him a call (800) 574-2589 and see what he will do.

Here is one for sale on ebay, but pricey.


----------



## Tim457

I'd buy one or make one from tool steel before I ground a 5/16 down, but that's just me. I know that I would never need a 5/16" iron until just after I ground it down. The potential of being pissed about that would get me over my cheapskate ways. Of course I could then just make or buy a 5/16" so I'm not really being logical.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks guys for the suggestions. I got the Wards cutters along with some other tools and all together I don't have a lot in them but maybe I will keep as is for now. I can use 3/16" for smaller drawer bottoms. I think I will bide my time and see if more cutters come my way. I'll be in and out of junk stores so who knows. If I find another set or even a single cutter that I could grind down then I will do it. Heck I might have to buy another 45 if it comes my way and with luck it will have the 1/4". That's the way it works, right? : )
Mike


----------



## bandit571

Might check with nhplaneparts on fleabay..Eric usually has a few 1/4" cutters.


----------



## dbray45

Lee Valley has cutters that fit the 45


----------



## DLK

> Lee Valley has cutters that fit the 45
> 
> - dbray45


I did not know that! But it is true as shown here.

I would wait for free shipping and get them from Lee Valley.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks guys. I may have to buy a cutter and it is good to know all the places that carry them. Thank you all.


----------



## TheFridge

Of all the stuff I buy, I'm haveing trouble paying 10$ for a 45's spur screw


----------



## BlasterStumps

Is it a special thread size? Different from the 78?



> Of all the stuff I buy, I'm haveing trouble paying 10$ for a 45's spur screw
> 
> - TheFridge


----------



## bandit571

A 78 is a longer bolt, is about all….


----------



## TedT2

Hello all. I have enjoyed reading this thread the last few days. I am still on the prowl for a 45 but have been unsuccessful in my rust hunts. I do have this 46 though and was wondering what all I am missing. I onky have a one cutter but what other pieces do I need….ignore the paint job…this is how I bought it.


----------



## TedT2

I apologize for the sideways pictures…not sure how to fix that…


----------



## Mosquito

looks like it's been cleaned up, and though not original, I actually really like the accents on the floral pattern.

It looks like you may be missing a thumb screw for securing the depth stop. You're missing the slitter, slitter depth stop, and the knurled nut that goes with that as well. I can't tell if you have the spur for the main section either. The main thing you're missing is the sliding skate that goes between the fence and the main body of the plane.

I'm also not sure what they were supposed to be fore, but there are a few holes drilled in the lower part of the skate that aren't factory on that particular type. Also, your fence rods are swapped. The one with the longer threaded section goes on the back, as that's where the slitter is.


----------



## TedT2

Thank you Mos. Is there somewhere I can look to date this plane. I would like to find the correct pieces if I can….


----------



## Mosquito

About the best I know would be a pretty wide range of 1905 - 1942, given that it has the rosewood on the fence.

http://tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/stanley/comb-planes/46types/46types.htm


----------



## TedT2

> About the best I know would be a pretty wide range of 1905 - 1942, given that it has the rosewood on the fence.
> 
> http://tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/stanley/comb-planes/46types/46types.htm
> 
> Thank you sir. I appreciate it.
> 
> - Mosquito


----------



## BlasterStumps

Anyone have a source for reproduction "Stanley Tools" trade mark labels for plane totes? 
Mike


----------



## Mosquito

Are you asking in general for hand plane totes, or specific to the #45 totes? I don't have a source specifically, but I do recall someone on eBay that used to have 'reproduction' tote stickers for sale


----------



## bandit571

Might ask Smitty and see IF he remembers about those labels…..
Random plane picture…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Asking in general. 


> Are you asking in general for hand plane totes, or specific to the #45 totes? I don t have a source specifically, but I do recall someone on eBay that used to have reproduction tote stickers for sale
> 
> - Mosquito


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yes, there was a seller on the 'bay that peddled reproduction Stanley Tools stickers in packs of six, if I recall. And that's the only time I've run across such things. It's probably been a couple years ago now.


----------



## Mosquito

That's what I remember too Smitty. I haven't seen it for quite some time now, but I do remember it sparking a bit of a debate over in the HPoYD thread I think


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Don't know where the bidding will lead, but so far this is a very good price.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-STANLEY-45-PLANE-5-NOSING-8-HOLLOW-AND-8-ROUND-WITH-CUTTERS/401481773168?hash=item5d7a2db070:g:K2AAAOSwRTVaZpfm


----------



## Mosquito

Shhhhhhhh I was watching that one 

Wasn't likely to bid though, #8's is the set I've got two of I think


----------



## Pimzedd

> Anyone have a source for reproduction "Stanley Tools" trade mark labels for plane totes?
> Mike
> 
> - BlasterStumps


A fellow on youtube called the Plane Collector has a video in which he states that he sells decals. The specific video is


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks guys for the information on the labels. I'll check the leads you gave me.
Mike


----------



## Trakem2

The seller on EBAY is jimijames66 and he does currently have decals listed. More expensive than those from the Plane Collector though.


----------



## Just_Iain

Another question. Does anyone know the approximate dimensions of the rosewood used on the fence of the 45?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Iain, the fence on the 45 I have measures real close to 1/2" x 1" x 9 1/2"

Mike


----------



## Just_Iain

Thanks Mike,

I was looking a block of Rosewood and as it has gotten really rare and is somewhat expensive up here in Canada, I wanted to be sure it would be correctly sized.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Iain, Hope you will share some pics of your plane when you get the fence done. Sounds like you are paying lots of attention to detail. Would be fun to see it.
Mike


----------



## Just_Iain

BlasterStumps(Mike), it'll be nothing special, trust me. Presently I have 'possibly' 2 whole 45s in storage with additional pieces from eBay to try for one complete one.


----------



## FrankonThetis

New home for an old tool. The finger jointed box that it came in was getting mighty crowded. Should be fine it the new home for the next while.


----------



## RWE

Frank: Would you mind sharing the dimensions of your box. I have been planning a similar layout but I want to keep the long guide bars on the plane during storage. It looks like you could do that with the layout that you have there. I am guessing the walls are a half inch thick?


----------



## FrankonThetis

RWE, yes the box is 1/2" thick, O.D. 11" Wide, 13" Long & 7" High with 1/2" plywood bottom. With my side pockets being 3/4" each to hold the cutter boxes, am 1/8" short of having the long guide bars permanently in place. Should have gone to 12" OD width.


----------



## RWE

Frank: Appreciate the dimensions. I had figured on setting up a box in a similar fashion so that takes some of the mystery out of the design. A picture is worth a thousand words. I will push the width out to 12'.

Yours looks nice. Looks like Walnut sides and unknown top with the nice contrast.


----------



## FrankonThetis

Thanks, it is a maple top but only had a light oak stain handy. It discoloured the middle a bit darker.


----------



## glideking

Reproducing that painted Victorian molding with two #45s a #55 and a #78 cut out of 2X6 redwood salvaged from an old deck.









The #55 cutting the reverse OG using asymmetrical cutter # 86









The lowly and underrated workhorse #78 hogging out material in preparation for the bead cutter.









The first #45 cutting the bead.









The second #45 cutting the triple flutes with special cutter #233.









I had to make a cutter to do this profile that only the #55 could handle with this asymmetry.









A line of planes to make 15 feet of Victorian molding to match.


----------



## Johnny7

Nice job, Glideking!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Glide, that's great work right there!


----------



## theoldfart

Impressive Glideking.


----------



## Tim457

Glideking, very nicely done. Did I miss some previous information about what the molding is for?


----------



## Mosquito

Looks like a lot of work, but sure does look good Glide!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Okay Mos. Aside from missing short rods (not a huge issue with a #55), a slitter cutter and a fourth box of cutters, what did I miss? Paid two bills for this plane on the 'bay as of earlier this evening. Is this a 'you suck,' or a 'that plane sucks' moment?


----------



## Mosquito

Based on that picture, it looks like a pretty solid deal to me, for an older #55. Either that or there's a mismatch and you got two right fences (usually the left fence had a taller piece of rosewood on it I think). You also got two of the sliding skates too, from the looks of it, and you have at least one tower (on the skate that's on the plane). That's about an $70-$80 part you won't have to find. Don't know if it's got the shoe to go with it or not, but that's not a huge deal. Also, there's usually 4 boxes of irons.

The label on that plane box though… It looks fantastic!


----------



## DanKrager

Smitty, that looks like a goon acquisition. Have fun.

Am I allowed to ask questions about a 46 on this 45 forum? 

I tried to get a good picture of the situation, but I'm afraid it doesn't show well. ( I took the time to sharpen and polish the cutting edge but not the rest of the blade.) I'm trying to cut a 1/4" x 1/4" tongue on a 13/16ths edge. As you might be able to see, the wide blade is not supported beyond the narrow main skate. I cannot get it to cut even with the finest of shavings because as soon as the cutting edge hits the wood, the blade flexes microscopically and digs into the wood. At best it chatters severely, and I'm afraid of breaking something with that much force. So the question is, how was this done in the old days? Was this operation limited to soft woods where it does seem to (almost) work? Is there a way to support the blade using original equipment?










I did the job with a 78 on both sides and it worked smoothly, so the question may be esoteric. But inquiring minds want reassurance that the old timers weren't THAT stupid.

DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Main skate should be behind one 'prong' of the tongue cutter, and the sliding skate behind the other. Looks like in the pic they're together, behind only one side of the cutter. (IF, and it's a BIG IF, I'm understanding the description and picture.)


----------



## DLK

This is an all kinds of combination plane forum. I have a 46 but not have used it enough to answer your question.


----------



## DanKrager

Good catch, Smitty. I was experimenting to see if the sliding skate would give support if it were closer to the main skate, but it doesn't. I started with the sliding skate on the other side of the tongue, but in both positions it's either 1/2" or 1/4" behind the cutter! Not even close!

I hope there is a working solution better than the Rupe Goldberg solution that I have in mind. It would be a very short task if this could work.

DanK


----------



## Mosquito

The problem with the #46 is that the sliding skate doesn't support the irons unless the iron is wide enough where you can move the skate out far enough where the two finally intersect. Dan, can you try getting the sliding skate out to the very left edge (in picture) of the iron? This may mean that the sliding skate is out over the fence.

In reality, they should have come up with a way to adjust the sliding skate forward and backward as well as in and out (from the main skate).

I'm not sure if my words accurately describe the problem I'm trying to convey… [edit] looks like you know what I'm talking about, given the reply you snuck in ahead of me


----------



## DanKrager

Thanks, Mos. You're right on, and the skate never comes close to the blade. I have another skate and even tried it in tandem, but no contact possible.

My first reaction, Rube Goldberg style, is to make a wooden wedge to fit, but keeping it in place is a problems. The only other solution I have come up with so far is to machine a metal support plate that rides the bars, has an angled surface for the blade to rest upon. After inserting the blade with the new support skate in close proximity, the new skate could be slid into contact with the blade. It would have to be cleverly made not to interfere with the tallest tongue somehow.

I REALLY want to use these things, so there has to be a solution out there somewhere.

DanK


----------



## tshiker

DanK Are you sure the cutter you're using is correct for the Stanley 46?


----------



## DanKrager

Tshiker, good point. It came with it, so I never questioned it. There are other blades of similar size that are definitely used with the 46.










I made a temporary wooden "frog" and it seemed to help enough that a crude tongue began to emerge. But I've come to the conclusion that there is no way to use this cutter in this plane body unless you are cutting balsa or soft pine, or one goes to the trouble to machine a skate that acts like a frog. I discovered at the end of my experiment that the blade had bent a few thousandth's so I straightened that out, polished it all up, oiled it and put it back in storage. Someday, if I live long enough, there will be an answer.

DanK


----------



## DLK

I got mine out to see what you have been whinging on about. But you are right it seems it would be very difficult to use the tounge cutter in the 46. I wonder if there is any historical discussion about this and what to do. But I have not the time now to try and see if I can make it work. I have used it to plow a groove. Reading Patrick's Blood and Gore I see that he raves about the 46 for cutting rabbets and dadoes, but he says nothing about cuttings tongues. He does make some interesting remarks that I guess you should read. There is not much in the instruction manual that helps either.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You'd think I'd have noticed the width of unsupported iron!


----------



## Mosquito

Yes, that's exactly the problem Smitty. The only way the sliding skate supports the iron, is if the iron is wide enough to intersect with the skate at the right position. It's obvious why it's like that (because otherwise you wouldn't be able to slide the sliding skate out at all), but still lol


----------



## DLK

I was going to say you would think a clever enough mechanic/engineer could have solved this problem. But I don't see how to do it unless you allow a portion of the skate to slide forward somehow.


----------



## Tim457

If the sliding skate was long enough to support the iron you could just remove the iron first before sliding the skate out. But then sliding skate would have to be made at a length to contact the iron at one specific width. It could be made to work with the tongue cutter for example. So yeah, basically they just ignored the problem and it isn't designed to cut tongues well.

Seems like your wood frog solution could be made to work well Dan.


----------



## Mosquito

I understand on the earlier planes, where the sliding skate was also the fence. Obviously you have to have full range with that, or you can't use it correctly.

Maybe on the later models, that included a fence separate from the sliding skate (like the one Dan and Smitty have shown), I think it would have been perfectly acceptable to make the sliding skate such that the point of intersection happened a set distance from the fence, even if that wasn't all the way out to the edge of the widest iron. For example, if it hit the iron 1/2" out from the main body, I think that would have been fine.

Perhaps that's why the #289 came into existence?


----------



## bandit571

Face frame build coming up…..will try to run these around all the openings…









We'll see…


----------



## tshiker

DanK,
This is fascinating to me! I just checked both of my 46's thanks to you, and for the life of me, I can't think of a single thing that sliding skate is good for! I have a near complete set of blades for both and that skate never touches any of them. What I don't have is any type of manual by Stanley or anyone for that matter on the use of a 46. Does anyone have any documentation on the 46 they care to share? It seems silly Stanley would add a skate for no reason.


----------



## Mosquito

They needed something to put the knicker on for cutting dadoes. The other reason is stability, to help keep the plane level when making wider cuts. I do not have a #46 manual, unfortunately.

This is about the best I've found:
http://www.hansbrunnertools.com/Stanley%20by%20numbers/46instr.pdf


----------



## bandit571

Made a bit of molding tonight…









Kept having to clear the shavings out..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm a No. 55 owner! And the three boxes of cutters? One of them had two rows of cutters. Seems to be several duplicate profiles, but double beaders are there.


----------



## Tim457

Awesome, I'm a little surprised this is your first 55 with some of the unique planes you have.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's a very intimidating (and heavy!) plane. First time I've seen a 55 in person was unpacking this one.


----------



## Mosquito

Sweet Smitty! The #55 is a fun one for sure. Little more fiddly than the #45 to set up, but I've enjoyed using it the couple times I have


----------



## CL810

I'm trying to make the bit of trim in the pic below. The bead in the middle is approximately .25" and the side beads are I believe a shade under 3/16". The middle bead sits proud of the side beads. The challenge is there is next to no shoulder between the beads. I believe I can get close enough with a 1/8" triple bead by enlarging the middle bead which would narrow the shoulders between the middle and side beads and raise the middle bead.

The problem?? I have no triple 1/8" bead cutter in my sets. Anyone have one they would care to sell?? I believe it is number 233. Otherwise I think I'll have to create 3 custom bead cutters. Could only find one on eBay and it was in a 3 cutter set that was already bid too high.

Or does anyone have other suggestions?


----------



## DanKrager

If you're going to modify a cutter,why not start with a straight one? They're readily available and you can quickly grind exactly what you want. And they're plentiful at the right price? Even an old planer blade would work nicely if it was wide enough.

DanK


----------



## glideking

The flat areas of the bead cutters is necessary for the runners or skates of the plane. The 233 cutter is a "special" cutter so a little more pricy. I would take a common straight cutter and grind the three beads into one cutter with flat spots on the outside for the skates to ride on. A 4.5 inch grinding wheel in a side grinder will do the trick. Spray bottle to keep the cutter cool. Then cut the flat parts off.
Kurt


----------



## CL810

May end up there guys. My metal working skills are virtually non existent, so it may take some time and I better buy two or three flat cutters.

BTW, glideking, just discovered your blog on your tool cabinet. Incredible cabinet! Just flat out beautiful.


----------



## DLK

How much trim? You could do this with a scratch stock.


----------



## DanKrager

I guess that's why you get the big bucks, Combo. Wish I'd thought of that. Yes, that would be very simple, but it still requires grinding or filing the profile. It does eliminate the consideration for skate flats to run on.

And I think one could do several hundred LF in less time than a 45.
DanK


----------



## DLK

Yes, but you would make it from a card scraper, an old saw plate or spring steel. So you can cut the profile with tin snips if your careful and then file it smooth. So not as difficult as grinding hardened steel.


----------



## CL810

I like the scratch stock idea Don. I have a spare scraper and files so I'll give it try. Thanks!!


----------



## DLK

Incidentally it looks to me that you could shape the scratch by drilling three holes in line in the middle of your scraper and then cutting across there diameters, followed by some shaping with a round file. You would get two this way. Also no need to make a hook just square across the profile. You will allos need to make a wooden holder with a fence,
but thats easy. See Scratch Stock Demo in this article.


----------



## bandit571

How do you make a 45 turn a corner…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Japanned 45 at auction this am. Long rods, solid knob, depth stops, knurled brass adjusters. $30. Missed it by 5 minutes…


----------



## Mosquito

That would have been pretty cheap… You need one? I think one of my spares is a T2, though I'd have to look… I'm going to make an effort soon to pare down the extras I think. Got too many extras laying around, and I need room for other stuff


----------



## theoldfart

Moss, wanna swap a 55 for a mitre box?


----------



## CL810

With apologies for derailing the thread to scratch stock but I wanted to thank Don Don for pointing me in the right direction. I ordered the files that will match up with the piece I am trying to duplicate. McMaster Carr has everything. Even aluminum oxide "stones" in all shapes, sizes, and grits for sharpening all kinds of shapes.


----------



## theoldfart

That's a good interruption Andy, good news. Looking forward to pics of the results.


----------



## Mosquito

Awesome Andy, look forward to the results.

Kevin, that's one of the things I've been thinking I need fewer of too lol


----------



## DLK

It was my pleasure to assist


----------



## DLK

By the way Andy, where did find that picture.


----------



## CL810

I don't understand, what pic?


----------



## DLK

> I don't understand, what pic?
> 
> - CL810


In your post #1836 above. Also what files did you order?


----------



## CL810

That was a trial scratch I made to test the method. I ordered double cut file 1/8 and 1/4" diameter. For the trial stock I used some chainsaw files which are 5/32 and 7/32".


----------



## DLK

Ah… O.K. I was surprised how you had it done. Then I read your post again and saw that you ordered some files and concluded erroneously that it must have been a pic you found on the web. I went looking for it and could not find it.
It did not occur to me you made a trial. Good for you. Looks like you are all set when the files arrive.


----------



## CL810

So I didn't take this thread off topic again, I posted a follow up on my scratch stock experiment in the Furniture Makers Forum.


----------



## Mosquito

I wouldn't have minded Andy


----------



## TedT2

So I was given a 45 yesterday, which was really cool. It was rescued from a flooded basement a few years (many) years ago. It is slightly rusty. I was able to partially disassemble it today. I know I am missing the short rods and a knob and all but 1 cutter and the big knicker. It looks like I have a 1/4 inch cutter. What else might I be missing?

Also where can I go to type this plane? I am crazy enough to want to get the proper pieces for it if possible. Thanks for your help.


----------



## Mosquito

That looks perfectly salvagable Ted. It looks like a Type 7 to me (Floral pattern + 45 in oval on the fence). As for where you can go to find a type, there are links in the first post of this forum that help, but they leave a lot of range for some. This is probably the best one: http://tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/stanley/comb-planes/45types/45types.htm

You'll be looking for the expensive knob (Threaded, not with a through hole and bolt).
Missing a beading stop (single piece)
Slitter, but that's an iron, technically
Sliding skate depth stop

Otherwise from the pictures and what you already knew, I don't see anything else you're missing that jumps out to me.


----------



## TedT2

Thanks Mos. I am pretty stoked about it. Hoping to have some time in the next week to get in some good de-rusting. I have wanted one for a while. Now I just have to collect 45 and 46 cutters…..yikes.


----------



## DLK

*TedT2* Bob Howard at  St James Bay make the cutters for you.


----------



## TedT2

Combo Prof, I have checked him out…I am hoping to find some in the wild. I have a hard time paying 2 1/2 times for cutters than I paid for my 46. I will have to break down someday…hoping to catch the right auction or flea market….


----------



## bandit571

nhplaneparts also sells original cutters


----------



## TedT2

Bandit, I did look at a skate for my 46 that nhplaneparts had on eBay…sold it before I jumped on it….


----------



## bandit571

Visit his "Store" and you will find more….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> I m a No. 55 owner! And the three boxes of cutters? One of them had two rows of cutters. Seems to be several duplicate profiles, but double beaders are there.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


That was over a month ago. Since then I've added a correct right fence, so with a couple non-critical exceptions this is a complete plane. And I haven't taken it for a test run yet. Guilt is setting in…


----------



## theoldfart

Guilt is a good motivator.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Felt bad enough last night that I did some cuts with the 46 skew plough. So there's that.


----------



## theoldfart

Ah, compensating are we? 

Jealousy is rearing it's ugly head again.


----------



## Mosquito

I've got several feet of molding cut with the #55 for no reason beyond just wanting to use it lol


----------



## RWE

I just bought several feet of pine boards just to play with cutting tongue and groves and doing a bead. Sometimes running experiments is just as much fun as actually making something.


----------



## bandit571

Sometime…you can try something like this..









Done around each opening..









Single and doubled









Not sure if a 45 can make such a turn, though…


----------



## DanKrager

Why do you think they're called 45's, Bandit?

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

^


----------



## bandit571

Have to ask Stanley, as they are the ones that named the plane…..


----------



## BenDupre

Hi Jocks,

Picked up this at an estate sale last week and I have a few questions for you experts.



















First, is there an online resource to help with typing? Like hyperkitten? I read Patricks blood and gore but I am still not sure. If not, does anyone want to take a stab at it?



















Second, it came with what seems like all the parts except whatever fits under the wingnut closer to the handle. Its either a depth stop or a slitting knife. Only one 5/8 cutter. The spurs were both attached but are ground down and need replaced. Is there a source for new replacement spurs?

I assume ebay will have some loose cutters but does anyone make new ones?

Thanks for any advice!

Ben


----------



## Johnny7

Knock yourself out:

http://tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/stanley/comb-planes/45types/45types.htm


----------



## DLK

St. James Bay Tool Company makes new blades and spurs.
He is in Tempe Az and I have been to his store.

He also sells reproduction parts on ebay.

See these St. James Bay Tool Company spurs. at $4.50 + $3.00 shipping, very reasonable.

I have also bought new and old #45 blades from Pete Niederberger [email protected]


----------



## Tim457

You can still find the stanley spur kits for the 78 here:
http://www.stanleytoolparts.com/planekits.html
I'm not sure if that site is legitimate though. It says they are out of stock but links to service net to buy them.

Also not sure if the spurs from the 78 fit the 45, but I seem to recall they do.


----------



## bandit571

The 78 uses a longer bolt, than the 45…

nhplaneparts also carries spurs and the bolts for them. Slitter depth stop is a stamped piece of steel.

Have to watch out when buying cutters….some do not have the slot for the depth adjuster pin.


----------



## BenDupre

> The 78 uses a longer bolt, than the 45…
> 
> nhplaneparts also carries spurs and the bolts for them. Slitter depth stop is a stamped piece of steel.
> 
> Have to watch out when buying cutters….some do not have the slot for the depth adjuster pin.
> 
> - bandit571


I have the screws. so reckon' the actual 78 spur should fit eh?


----------



## bandit571

Yep.


----------



## bandit571

Spurs ( retracted)









Other than the length of the bolt…no real difference…









Bolt and washer for the slitter and it's depth stop….









The bolt for the 78's depth stop is too small diameter to fit the 45. 









Depth stop installed…









Then the slitter over it, then the bolt and washer…

Trademark logo on mine..


----------



## BenDupre

Thanks Bandit.

This picture was taken before I cleaned it. It has the old script logo on the skate. Does that give any clues to type?










Ben


----------



## Johnny7

*^*
I provided a link (post #1866) so that you could determine the "type" of your plane.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ben, have you checked out the reference Johnny posted above? That should narrow your field quite a bit.


----------



## Mosquito

Type 12 Ben. I was almost 100% sure it was a type 12, and then when you said script logo on the skate, that confirmed it. Earlier version where the fence micro adjust locking screw was on top center. Made from 1915-1920.

Also, there are a handful of useful links (including the one Johnny posted) in the first post of this thread


----------



## BenDupre

Yes thanks! I read the links. Figured out this morning it was a type 12. I missed the clue first time. The logo is the key. When i have more time i look forward to reading through this thread.

One thing i noticed is there is no pin holding the adjustment screw from spinning. Anyone have a suggestion what to replace that with?


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm, methinks I was a tad too deep with the cutter settings..










Needed a groove to house a padded, plywood panel..










Including stopped grooves..



















That were fun to do…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Wow! Am I missing something on this? Makes me wonder.

https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/52916556


----------



## CO_Goose

Well, it *Does* have the screwdriver…



> Wow! Am I missing something on this? Makes me wonder.
> 
> https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/52916556
> 
> - BlasterStumps


----------



## CL810

I posted this in the wrong thread earlier.

What is this?


----------



## Mosquito

Not something from a 45 that I'm aware of. Not actually sure what it is though


----------



## DanKrager

Does anyone check their 45 soles, the bottom of the skates, to see if they are co-planar? I haven't, but I just kinda out of the blue thought about it. I will be using one tomorrow, and it might be a good lesson for the apprentice.

DanK


----------



## Tim457

I check every similar plane bottom for that Dan after I got one out of a match plane set that doesn't work because the skates are so out of plane. It's going to take full surgery to get it to work.


----------



## rhybeka

so is it better to make rabbets for shiplap with a #45 or with a #78??


----------



## Mosquito

Whichever is sharper


----------



## donwilwol

I would think the 78 would be quicker to set up, but once set up I would think the front knob on the 45 would make it more comfortable if you're doing a lot.


----------



## DanKrager

I can't find it quickly, but I saw a knob put on a 78 where the blade would mount in the front. I've been wanting to do that since I saw the idea, so I'm gonna hafta look it up.

DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Found it!










DanK


----------



## rhybeka

ooooh nice Dan! I was just curious because I've got five boards I did with the #78 for the back of my dutch tool chest and was curious if it was easier keeping an actual 90 degree angle more with the 45 than the 78? Guess it may require some experimentation on my part.


----------



## DanKrager

It takes an experienced hand to keep 90° with either, IMHO. It may be helpful to have "training wheels". For the 45 the long rods and the "rocker" could do that, or for the 78 a board clamped along the edge helps.

DanK


----------



## donwilwol

I'm not sure what it is, but the #78 isn't one of the best looking planes to start with, and putting a knob on it just make it that much worse. It's like looking at an ugly baby, you know you shouldn't think that way, but you just can't help it.


----------



## bandit571

And…sometimes, it even works..


----------



## rhybeka

I liked using the 78 for it but when I was reading here there and everywhere about it, keeping it 90 degrees seemed to be the biggest challenge. I wasn't sure with having two skates to put down if the 45 would just be a better choice? I do have the fence and such for the 78 and for the most part for the tool chest back I can clean up my rabbets well enough to make them serviceable…. I hope


----------



## jdh122

I'm having trouble removing the nicker on my 45 (the one on the skate rather than on the body). It's currently "turned off" and I want to rotate it 90 degrees so that I don't get tear-out when cutting grooves. I can get the screw out that holds it in, but then I can't get the nicker out. Any suggestions?


----------



## DLK

Try soaking it with PB-blaster or similar. Then tap it, then try to gently pry it off. Rinse and repeat.


----------



## donwilwol

In addition to what Did n wrote try tapping it with something wooden like a dowl.


----------



## bandit571

Grooves with the grain really don't require the nickers…..









Grooves across the grain…aka …dados









Do need the nickers. Might also try a very thin bladed screwdriver, coming up from the bottom edge of the skate.


----------



## DLK

> In addition to what Did n wrote try tapping it with something wooden like a dowl.
> 
> - Don W


Interesting autocorrect. LOL


----------



## DLK

> Try soaking it with PB-blaster or similar. Then tap it, then try to gently pry it off. Rinse and repeat.
> 
> - Combo Prof


To be clear I did mean tap it with say a wooden dowel as Dow W said.


----------



## jdh122

Thanks for the rapid advice. I had tried prying with a flat screwdriver (glass repair type), from both the top and the bottom. A small dowel form the back is a good idea, but first I'm going to spray it with a penetrating solvent. 
I do find that I sometimes get tearout even when plowing a groove if the grain is particularly gnarly or really runs in the wrong directlion. This project's made from tamarack, my first time working with it. So far the species seems to take to planing pretty well, so maybe the nicker's aren't needed for the drawer bottoms I'm doing. Better safe than sorry, though.
Don: I knew that you meant dowel. Didn't know that dowl was even a word. Looking it up, it seems to be a surprisingly obscure auto-correction…


----------



## RWE

I get to browse Youtube and other resources more than I get time in the shop it seems. Anyway, somewhere out in the world wide web I saw a fellow that suggested that you use a wheel gauge/marking gauge/cutting gauge on all groves and a knife on dadoes rather than depend on the nickers. You still use the nickers, but you lessen the chance of nicker tearout.

If you make a little bite with your iron in your 45, then set the gauge to the sides of the iron marks, you get the insurance of having a crisp line. If your nicker is dull, use a dowel and a screw to fasten the nicker to the dowel leaving the beveled side exposed, and use the dowel as a handle to sharpen the nicker.

I plan to use the marking gauge technique going forward. I guess I have watched Paul Sellers expound the virtues of a a clean knife wall too many times.


----------



## bandit571

Helps just the pull the plane backwards a few times….BEFORE pushing forward..









About 4 times should do the trick. I was having issues with "blow-outs" where the plane enters, and exits…









Have gone to a backsaw, a saw kerf at each end, down to the depth I needed to be. Just enough to stop any blow-outs. Does NOT have to be all the way across.


----------



## DLK

> Don: I knew that you meant dowel. Didn t know that dowl was even a word. Looking it up, it seems to be a surprisingly obscure auto-correction…
> 
> - jdh122


I didn't even notice that Don W wrote dowl, I was amused that "Don K" was autocorrected to "Did n". LOL


----------



## jdh122

I used a 12-year old can of Ronson multi-lube. Let set about 20 minutes, pried lightly with a screwdriver. Worked like a charm.

Funny that I didn't see that much more obvious auto-correct that changed the meaning of the post and went to a minor change that you would still pronounce the same and was totally clear…


----------



## DLK

Great.


----------



## donwilwol

who knows what I typed, or what it thought i typed. It never knows me very well.


----------



## DanKrager

LOL at autocorrect. Autocorrect, I dislike your shirt.

Glad the knicker came out OK. I concur with what has been said about pre-scoring with a knife before starting and every couple strokes thereafter. Much more reliable and rather quick. I've done the saw thing, too, but I found either the knicker has to be razor sharp (as it should be, but you know how lazy we get) or the saw cut(s) right on the line.

DanK


----------



## donwilwol

This is a prime example of there is more than one way to skin the cat. But either way the knife needs to be sharp.


----------



## HonestlyMediocre

Anyone want to split a lot of No. 45/55 cutters?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-180-ASSORTED-CUTTERS-FOR-STANLEY-NO-45-55-COMBINATION-PLANE/263827810282?hash=item3d6d5ce7ea%3Ag%3AufQAAOSwkE9bTpBe&_sop=15&_pgn=13&_nkw=stanley+lot&_from=R40&rt=nc


----------



## RWE

Well I need a 1/4 inch tongue cutter for a 45. I was not planning on getting in that price heavy. I have two 45's and one set of cutters, so I could stand more. If you are serious, private message me. I would have to research what the normal compliment of cutters for a 45 would be.


----------



## theoldfart

Uh, there's a boatload of duplicates, triplicate and forplicates there boys. For that kind of price I'd expect a lot more diversity, very few 55 specific cutters.


----------



## HonestlyMediocre

Ha, I was joking. Oldfart noticed the same thing as me-lots of duplicates, but maybe only 2-3 complete sets, mostly for the 45. Whoever buys the lot is probably best advised assembling a nice set to keep and reselling the rest. I've already learned my lesson about buying tools with the intent of reselling…

I've got (2) 45's, one really nice one that had nearly all the cutters (missing 1-2) and a second "user" that I bought without any cutters. I figure two are nice to have for doing matched ends and so long as I have nearly one full set that should work. The estate sale I bought the complete 45 at had (2) 55s and (4) 45s, about 1/2 had full cutter sets, I bought my 45 on the final day for 1/2 price day the but broker didn't want to haggle on doing a group buy so I left with just the one. The 55s had sold previously for $500+.


----------



## RWE

Okay, now that 55's have been brought up, what is a decent price point for one. There is one with no cutters, looks like it will clean up, listed at $120 in a store that I can revisit anytime. I am a nut about all of this stuff, but with two 45's in hand, I did not feel the need for the 55. However, I don't know what they sell for and I thought I might offer $100 or so and see if they would sell it. What is the "sweet" price range for a 55 in your opinion.

Plus anyone with a spare 1/4 tongue cutter that they will sell. The one I got had pitting and will not sharpen.


----------



## DLK

We would have to see it to be sure it has all it parts and also to check the condition. But $120 is not a bad price and you can probably get it for $108. (10% off is pretty standard sale price.) You can possible do better, if you know a guy, 
but from a store I don't think so.


----------



## RWE

Combo:

I looked the 55 over a bit. Had parental supervision (wife) along, so I did not dwell on it. Fence seemed good. What can you tell from this picture, what era, series etc.


----------



## DLK

Mos is the expert and can probably give you and idea, but there has never been a type study for the 55s as far as I know. It looks restorable to me, it may take some work. Maybe you can get it for under $100? Be aware that buying it is not buying a new tool it is an expensive hobby. It will cost you another $200-$300 to get the 4 boxes of cutters, the short rods, the cam stop, the depth gauge, the beeding stop . the slitter, the slitter dpth


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

RWE, an incomplete #55 is potentially a very expensive proposition. Check out ebay for sets of cutters, the auxiliary center tower/center bottom, a box (if so inclined) and either of the two fences for ideas on prices of things typically absent that are unique to the tool. That one is missing one of it's fences and the center tower, and has no cutters. Those pieces alone are potentially 2X the cost of what you'd take home from that tag sale.

Partial 55s have to be crazy cheap for me to look twice, and then I still stay away.


----------



## RWE

Thanks for the feedback. I picked up a nice 78 the other day, plus the two 45's so I can plow groves and cut rabbets just fine. My interest in the 45's was because I go on box making binges ever so often and I thought it would be nice to be able to use handtools to cut the grooves and rabbets instead of the table saw. I am also going to try cut some small mitered sides using a 358 Mitre Box and then shooting the edges on a 45 degree shooting board. A 55 would be purely above and beyond any practical use. I hate to see a restorable tool sitting on a shelf in those stores being ignored and unappreciated, but I can't save every one of them.

If any LJ reader is interested in the 55, I would be glad to pick it up for them.


----------



## Mosquito

I agree with Smitty. Non-complete = money pit


----------



## DLK

Smitty got it right and I was leaning that way, but as you say I too hate to see a tool sit on a shelf that I could restore. Thats why I have boxes full of tools to someday restore.


----------



## Just_Iain

> Smitty got it right and I was leaning that way, but as you say I too hate to see a tool sit on a shelf that I could restore. Thats why I have boxes full of tools to someday restore.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I have a good size toolbox stuffed with parts of various 45s. I'm hoping to assemble one complete one. Two would be a stretch.

Iain


----------



## Mosquito

I still have to do a little wire management, but I finally did something I was intending to with the hutch full of #45's. I added some lighting inside


----------



## bandit571

Photo taken in 2015….at a local Tractor Fest…that they have every Labor Day weekend….might see IF there is a few others..this year…


----------



## donwilwol

> I still have to do a little wire management, but I finally did something I was intending to with the hutch full of #45 s. I added some lighting inside
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito


Sweet!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice, Mos!


----------



## DanKrager

Lighted displays are pimp! Wow!

DanK


----------



## bandit571

BTW: the price tags on the two planes in that photo? The 45 was $145, the 48 was $125.00 I seem to recall the 48 was missing an iron….may have been why it was priced lower?


----------



## tshiker

> I still have to do a little wire management, but I finally did something I was intending to with the hutch full of #45 s. I added some lighting inside
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito


Wow, that's fantastic! Are they all complete with blades and stuff?


----------



## CL810

Way cool Mos!!


----------



## DLK

Mos, Do you show the stands are made somewhere?


----------



## Mosquito

> Lighted displays are pimp! Wow!
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


My wife gives me a hard time because my collection display is nicer than anything in our kitchen lol



> Wow, that s fantastic! Are they all complete with blades and stuff?
> 
> - tshiker


Not all of them, I'd say probably 75% of them have iron sets, and about 40% have original boxes



> Mos, Do you show the stands are made somewhere?
> 
> - Combo Prof


Not yet, but they're pretty simple. I used pine boards for the bases and carside wood siding for the uprights and part holding the planes. Then just glue and screws. I'm hoping to either stain them dark or paint them sometime, just haven't decided which yet


----------



## Mosquito

I'm working on a stand for another plane (This one a Union branded version of the Siegley No. 2). This stand is going to be a little more ornate than the other ones I made for the #45s, but in principle the same thing.

The plane holder portion is an upright with an angle (arbitrary) and a cross piece that sits on top of that










The top piece is held on to the upright by glue and 2 screws (Yes, 2).










The 3rd screw is shorter, and does not go all the way into the upright. It is not counter sunk and sits proud of the bottom. (for the #45 stands I did not do a bead, and used a smaller screw due to the plane characteristics)










That screw is then used to hook the back sections of the skates to keep it from sliding off (and helps keep it held down into the groove as well)



















And there you have it. The base (I've yet to make for this one), is just a piece of wood with 2 holes drilled in it that I screwed the upright to from underneath.


----------



## DanKrager

Like.

DanK


----------



## donwilwol

Nice Mos!


----------



## DLK

Thanks, Mos' I got it. Any how do you display or keep all the cutters?


----------



## Mosquito

Right now I don't really display the cutters. If they had cutters, but no plane box, I put the cutters behind the plane in the hutch, otherwise I label the boxes with the type they go with, and have the irons stored in those


----------



## BlasterStumps

Some of you might remember me showing my 45 and talking about having all the cutters but the 1/4". Well today I found a 1/4" but it don't work in the 45 : ( It's in this thing : )









It's going in the soak for a day or so. Just have to rig up something to soak it without getting the wood in it. 








It has the 5" rods. No slitter. No long depth stop. Probably an early one but not that early. On the hunt now for more blades. Might have to buy new ones. 
Mike


----------



## RWE

I need a quarter inch tongue iron for my 45. The one that came with it had pitting in the edge and will not sharpen. Are they available new from some vendor? Who sells them if so?

I have skimmed Ebay several times but they are not that easy to come by, or reasonably priced.

thanks


----------



## Mosquito

Mike, that looks like a late model #46. Only the last few types had rosewood fences. Looks in decent shape though, so it should be nice and usable 

RWE, Lee Valley sells irons for Veritas planes that work in the #45 (I have physically verified that myself). The Veritas irons are a little shorter in length than the Stanleys, so the depth adjuster will be adjusted way down, but the irons do work.

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=75781&cat=1,230,41182,75622

Otherwise it's just eBay or knowing someone. I'll check my stash lol


----------



## BlasterStumps

I believe you can buy cutters for the 45 from St James Bay Tool co 
https://www.stjamesbaytoolco.com/
Mike


----------



## BlasterStumps

Mos, is there a type study on these planes?

I didn't think it to be real old but it doesn't have the longer rods. Yes, it seems to be in good shape. I took it apart a little bit ago and put it in some evaporust to soak. Maybe by morning I will be able to tell more about it's condition.


----------



## Mosquito

This is about the best I've found online for #46's http://tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/stanley/comb-planes/46types/46types.html


----------



## DLK

*Mos* there is now no hyphen in comb-planes in the link you posted. This should work http://tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/stanley/combplanes/46types/46types.htm

*BlasterStumps*, The instruction sheet that came with the 46 does not show it has long rods. So I don't think it ever came with them.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Don, by long rods, I was referring to the 6 1/2" rods compared to the 5" that this one has. It is my understanding that the later production planes had the 6 1/2". By later I'm thinking type 11 or 12 probably.
Mike


----------



## DLK

O.K. I see now. The rods are easy to make. And I think it would not be difficult to make a 1/4" cutter too.


----------



## bandit571

I have a 1/4" tongue cutter "spare"......seems a little fatter than than the one I have in the plane..









I" ll dig both out later, today…and try to get a photo….


----------



## RWE

If it will sharpen I would like to have it. I can Paypal you some remuneration with an email address. I have not figured out how to private message on here, but if you know how, private message me. Anyone that wants to tell me how to get to private messaging in the interface, please chime in. Many thanks for the offer Bandit.


----------



## Mosquito

> *Mos* there is now no hyphen in comb-planes in the link you posted. This should work http://tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/stanley/combplanes/46types/46types.htm
> 
> - Combo Prof


lol your link also has the hyphen in comb-planes when you click on it… It was actually the .html should have been .htm. Thanks for the heads up


----------



## Mosquito

RWE:

Click the users name:









Then click Send Message:









Then to check your messages:


----------



## RWE

Thanks for the info on IM Mos. I read the messages quite a bit, but I have never rambled around in the interface very much. Since I make a living programming software, I feel a bit dumb for all of this. That is not an unusual feeling for me so I will get over it.

From a guy who came to really hate Facebook, I salute the contributors here for making all the forums fun and informative. The general content here is so much more interesting.


----------



## bandit571

here tis….









The short one is the "spare"...









Not sure IF it is what you want..









May have been from an older style of #45? Looks to have been sharpened a few times in it's life…..


----------



## RWE

The short one is identical to the one I have that has pitting on the edge. It would work fine. I have two 45's. One came with irons and I picked up a second one to get the adjustable fence. The second one had some irons/cutters but not that many. So PM what you want for the cutter and shipping.

I don't know that I will ever do tongue and groove work, but I would like to be able to if I want. I have the smaller tongue iron, 3/16ths I believe.

The size difference is a bit curious. Maybe the larger one was a result of a version change as you mentioned or could it have been meant for a 55?

Thanks


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'll squeeze one more picture of the 46 in here to show that it did clean up some. I got most of the rust off. Things slide now like they should. The blade is cutting quite nicely. I'll have to spend some time with the tool to learn how to use it correctly. Might just have a keeper : ) MIke


----------



## Mosquito

It was version changing. The later #45s came with the iron on the right, earlier with the one on the left (the depth stop for them changed slightly through generations as well). I think they realized that they could save manufacture cost by not removing metal that doesn't need to be and went with the straight edge on the one side (also probably why they quit doing curved tops and transitions too I would guess)

Mike that plane looks nice enough now. I'd say it's a keeper. I've got both that style (rosewood fence) and the style with the skate mounted fence, and use both equally from time to time


----------



## bandit571

Small, flat rate box, lots of bubble wrap….just needs a place to go….


----------



## RWE

Bandit:

Check Private Message


----------



## DLK

> *Mos* there is now no hyphen in comb-planes in the link you posted. This should work http://tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/stanley/combplanes/46types/46types.htm
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> lol your link also has the hyphen in comb-planes when you click on it… It was actually the .html should have been .htm. Thanks for the heads up
> 
> - Mosquito


Well …. I'm just glad its fixed.

But note that your link in the preamble to St James bay is broken.

Almost easier is to search "Reproduction Stanley" and you will find what he has ready for sale. Last I talked to him he no longer had a reliable way to get parts nickel plated. You can always call him to see what he has. The link 
https://www.stjamesbaytoolco.com/
seems to work.


----------



## DLK

> *Mos* there is now no hyphen in comb-planes in the link you posted. This should work http://tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/stanley/combplanes/46types/46types.htm
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> lol your link also has the hyphen in comb-planes when you click on it… It was actually the .html should have been .htm. Thanks for the heads up
> 
> - Mosquito


Well …. I'm just glad its fixed.

But note that your link in the preamble to St James bay is broken.

Almost easier is to search "Reproduction Stanley" and you will find what he has ready for sale. Last I talked to him he no longer had a reliable way to get parts nickel plated. You can always call him to see what he has. The link 
https://www.stjamesbaytoolco.com/ seems to work.


----------



## bandit571

IF he can wait til after this weekend….I'll send the cutter out about Tuesday….or so? I think it is a 2 day ship?


----------



## WayneC

I didd't think St James bay had 45/55 cutters for sale. Record 405 cutters would work. Veritas Cutters would work but expensive.

St. James does sell for the Stanley T&G planes, Millers Patent, 46 and some others.


----------



## bandit571

Cutter set is boxed up, and about ready to ship…

Saw a few older ploughs over the weekend…









These MIGHT be a matched set…









$80 each on the fenced ploughs….didn't really look over the molders….#80 was $20…










Didn't need any of these….


----------



## bandit571

RWE: Check your mailbox…..


----------



## BlasterStumps

Found another 45 today. It is a Sweetheart edition. Only long rods and no slitter blade and no cutters at all. That's cool though as I have a set of blades that will work. I'll give it a clean tomorrow.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks great!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Smitty. That is what I thought when I first spotted it on the shelf in a antique shop. It had a price of $50 on the tag. I was able to get that knocked down to $40. At that price, I can afford to shop for parts later on. It was strange that it didn't have at least one blade with it. Bummer. I still haven't found a 1/4" cutter and now I have two planes. 


> Looks great!
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


----------



## Mosquito

not bad at all for $40!


----------



## Mosquito

Little bit of a double post with hand planes of your dreams, but different pictures here  My latest combination plane to play with, Otis A Smith (Fales Patent) Variable Bench Plane:

(Note, I haven't sharpened or cleaned it, the iron is in rough shape, but obviously still workable)


----------



## donwilwol

I have a Sales body. I'd love to find the rest of it!!


----------



## Mosquito

Well don't start hunting until I've got all the ones I want


----------



## Mosquito

I posted these over in the hand plane thread, but figured since I created this thread, and it's more dedicated towards combination planes (and I teased it previously), I better share them here as well  I'll probably repost as a blog series at some point too

First was the unbox/looking it over











This was the initial test run. No cleaning, no sharpening, just set it up and go










This time, some sash (yes, the board was too thin lol)


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'm wondering if there is a method of choice for sharpening Stanley 46 cutters. I would like to ensure that I get the proper cutting angle as well as not changing the skew angle. Just haven't wrapped my mind around it yet so I thought I would ask the experts. I tried one that came in the plane when I bought it but I can easily see that I changed the cutting angle.
Mike


----------



## DanKrager

I use jig settings on my Tormek that were identified when the blade was correctly fitted and cutting well. Then it is simply a matter of carefully repeating those settings for touch up and honing.

Similar things can be done with sliding T bevel squares. Two settings will be needed, again taken from a reference "master" made from blades that are working correctly. Two STB squares would handy.

And you can use digital protractor "squares" in the same manner. Just record the numbers…even stamp or etch them on the blade.

If you have trouble keeping the correct angles while grinding and honing without a jig, a black permanent marker line on the "back" of the blade just shy of the edge will help keep the proper skew. The same technique on the bevel, i.e. coating the bevel with marker so you can see which edge is rubbing the most on the abrasive. Repeat this bevel trick until you get the feel of it.

I haven't tried it, but the two reference angles might be present on the plane body somewhere. I'll have to check that out. If not built in, you could scratch mark the correct ones for handy reference.

DanK


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Dan. I'm sick with a cold right now but soon as I can back out in the shop, I'll see what I can do. I appreciate the information.


----------



## bandit571

There is a fellow over on both SMC and Woodnet…asking for what the box for a type 5 Stanley #55 looked like..

Anyone want to drop by, and help out Ray Newman?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I have a #55 box, but don't post on either of those sites. It's wood, is that type 5?


----------



## Mosquito

^ Same with Smitty. Not particularly friendly.

And good info Dan. I just free-hand it, so I didn't have anything to contribute lol


----------



## TheFridge

I know it wouldn't work for a 46 but I have a 45ish degree angled block I screw a dremel tool into to sharpen the irons. Low speed with fine chainsaw sharpening bit works pretty good. Then hone the piss out of it.

Mos. I just realize you have a thread dedicated to to your combo plane enablement  it's taken me this long. Mama never said I was the brightest.


----------



## Mosquito

lol It started as part of a blog I started, and turned into this


----------



## bandit571

Was the early 55s in a cardboard box, metal box or wood? Type 5 era. Were the cutters in the fancy boxes, in a slot like holder ( 4 rows) or just loose? Assembled or dis-assembled plane? Ray wants to build a box for his Stanley No. 55, type 5. Thought I would ask around for him…that's all…

I know the wood box my #45 came in was a later version….was wondering about the early boxes…


----------



## JADobson

I just got my first 45 on the weekend. Complete except for a couple of blades and the wingnut for the slitter. I should probably read this whole thread but I have one quick question for the experts. I can't lock the fence with hand pressure alone. It only locks if I use a pair of pliers to give it a little extra tightening. I tried sanding the rods with some 220 grit sandpaper but that didn't seem to help. I'm a little worried that tightening with pliers will damage the threads. Should I be looking for new thumbscrews?


----------



## Mosquito

Which thumb screws are in it? Are they the tapered/pointed ones? And how easily can you turn the thumb screws with no rods in the fence? (I'm trying to see if it might be the threads on the screw and fence causing it to be hard to tighten, or if it is just the rods)


----------



## BlasterStumps

I would caution against using much force on the thumbscrews. At least some Stanley used were merely cast pieces, not very strong. I have broken two just by turning them with a little force. I would look into the threaded holes to see what you can there and try to determine if the threaded post of the thumbscrew can go deep enough in the hole to touch the rod. I have one that is much that way in that it doesn't really want to tighten up properly. Not sure why though, I haven't taken the time to really get into it yet. I was thinking someone along the way changed out the thumbscrew.


----------



## JADobson

Screws are the pointed ones. Threads are a little sticky but not too bad. I took the fence off and checked that the screws had enough depth. They seem to.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Screws, or thumb screws? These EOM parts? I've seen replacements used that were 'almost' right for the job, could be what you're dealing with as well.


----------



## JADobson

Here is the plane - I can get pictures of the thumbscrews themselves when I get home. I will note though that they have a curved point that seems to match the fence rods.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Looks like a nice 45 JADobson. Good find. I'm still under the weather with this bronchial infection that I picked on our trip over Thanksgiving. When I am on my feet again, I am going to dig out the 45 that I was experiencing the thumbscrew trouble on and will report on what I find. Still wonder if someone hadn't changed out that thumbscrew and maybe it was me when I took it all apart for cleaning and just didn't get the right one back in the right place. I do those kinds of things. 
Did you get cutters with it? My cutter set actually from a Wards Master clone so I had to cut a notch in them for the adjuster. They work but not pretty.


----------



## JADobson

Thanks. LJ member Brent Parkins sold me this one for a good price. He threw in some blades that he happened to win at auction (big lot, he was after something else in it). Not all of them are there but most of them I think. I'm planning on using this for ploughing grooves mostly so straight cutters are fine. Just need to figure out how to lock the dang fence. Thought I had it yesterday evening and all of sudden the fence was on the floor. Thank goodness for anti fatigue floor mats!


----------



## Mosquito

The thumb screws for the fence (with rosewood on it) should be pointed. The thumb screws for the sliding skate should be flat.

I would take the fence off, screw the thumb screw in as far as you can by hand, and then look in the four holes the fence rods would go in, and see if the thumb screw is protruding into those holes. I can grab a picture of one of mine when i get home, if that helps for reference


----------



## JADobson

Thanks Mosquito. I've done that. The screws can definitely be seen through the holes.


----------



## JADobson

These are the thumbscrews poking through. They seem to back out as soon as lateral pressure is applied.


----------



## Mosquito

If they back out when pressure is applied, my first thought would be the thumb screws, or the fence are stripped. With the screw sticking that far into the fence, it certainly should grab the rods (sorry, I forgot to grab a picture of one of mine)


----------



## JADobson

No worries. I'll keep playing with it and see if I can't figure something out.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I snuck out to the shop for a minute this morning to take a look at the thumbscrew issue I mentioned. Turns out it is not too hard to see what the problem with it is. The pointed end of the screw is deformed badly. Not sure how this happened and am fairly confident that I did not do it because I noticed the issue with it when reassembling the plane after cleaning. Anyway, that's the story on mine. Looks like I will need to re-establish the point on the screw. Since this discussion has my attention, I might look closely at all the other thumbscrews on the 45s and 46 to be sure all is well with them.


----------



## bandit571

Can always get a few such thumbscrews at nhplaneparts…..has a few of what Eric calls "Tapered" thumbscrews….

OK..might try the tumbscrews that hold the sliding stock in place of the fence screws?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Found this today. Not sure what it is. Rods are really short.


----------



## Mosquito

Looks fairly nice…

What's the fence look like? It's either type 1, 2, or 3, depending on that. Those rods could be original if it's type 3, but wouldn't be if it's a type 1 or 2


----------



## BlasterStumps

Mos, I don't have a very good pic of the fence yet but I believe I know what it looks like. It is kind of plain with 45 on the one end and stanley on the other. Might be type 3, I agree.


----------



## Mosquito

I don't have a picture of my Type 3 fence up yet, but this is type 1 and 2. Type 3 has a flat spot ground into it for extending the reach.



















I see slotted brass screws for yours, so it would likely be 2 or 3


----------



## BlasterStumps

If it is not broken somehow, would it be worth anything as a user? I have my set of 45 cutters that I might be able to use with it. I have zero experience with one this old. It would be nice to use it for grooving drawer sides for the bottom to sit in.
Mike


----------



## Mosquito

I lied, I do have a picture of my type 3, just not as detailed (or clean) as the 1 or 2:










Absolutely could be a user, though in all honesty, the Type 1-4 aren't the best users, unless you want to dedicate it to one thing. It lacks the depth adjustment added in type 5, so it's all hammer work. That said, I do like them as they're a little smaller and lighter than the type 7+ planes. I've found them to be more friendly with the hollow and round bases than the larger planes in my experience (but again, the depth adjuster is nice to have).


----------



## BlasterStumps

I might have it by Saturday. I will know more about it then. If not broken and it works, that will be great. I'll post a couple pictures of it after I get it.


----------



## BlasterStumps

As to the above post, it didn't happen. Three days late now. I can only imagine the old Victorian era plane peeking out over the edge of the box only to wonder where in the dickens it is at now. The last tracking notation described it's location as Minturn, CO.
I've been to Minturn, all the more reason to worry. : ( Oh well, will wait another day.


----------



## DLK

I also have a package that USPS tells me arrived at the KANSAS CITY KS NETWORK DISTRIBUTION CENTER on December 10 and on Friday, Dec 14, 2018 12:00 AM it is arrived at a place called N/A . It has been in Transit to Next Facility ever since.

It is now December 17.

I've *never *been to N/A all the more reason to worry. : ( Oh well, will wait another day.


----------



## theoldfart

My last prescription mail order was shipped from Illinois to me in CA., tracking showed it going to an APO ! Next stop was Sydney, Australia. Hmmmmm. Maybe they work better when they have been to OZ. Finally showed up after the replacements were sent. I'm still dealing with it.


----------



## Mosquito

I had a package that kept getting "Missorted", and sent to the wrong UPS distribution center. After it bounced back and forth for 5 days, I finally called them, and said just hold it at the wrong one, I'll come get it. That facility was actually closer to me than the one that my UPS packages get distributed/delivered from. I was familiar with that one anyway, since I was there a LOT when I had my apartment lol


----------



## BlasterStumps

The old 45 showed up in today's post. It has been repaired on one arm of the fence. Still if I can make it into a user, I might have a good plow plane. I have the knob off to give it a clean.

Here are a couple pictures:


----------



## Mosquito

And it's a type 3, for reference 

As long as the fence still moves on the rods as it should, nothing to worry about on the repair. My main user #45 for several years had a similar repair with no issues


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have a rod from a 78 that I am going to make a foot for so that I can use it as a depth stop. Should work. The fence slides on okay.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I made up a depth stop for the old 45. Decided to use a metric bolt that I had instead of the rod from the 78. I put some threads into a small strip of metal to be used for the skid, screwed in the cut down bolt, and fashioned the skid a little so that it won't catch on anything as I use the plane. Not the best but maybe it will work. Whatcha think?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Perfect.


----------



## bandit571

May need to add a "clearance" notch for some of the wider cutters…?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Good eye Bandit. Yes, especially if I was to use the tongue cutters. Otherwise the smaller cutters will clear the shoe.

I think I discovered the reason that the fence had been broken. The pointed screws were replaced by flat tipped screws from other locations on the plane. All screws were accounted for but just mixed up in their location. If the pointed screws were not holding the fence to the rods, the fence may have just slid off and fell on the floor thereby causing the crack in the leg. Just surmising but probably was the case.


----------



## bandit571

Saw one just like it, today….place called "Heart of Ohio" down in Springfield, OH. It did have one cutter with it…$200.00 + Tax…..Which it seems is about average for most of the planes I saw there…..Dunlaps were about $20…

Was afraid to even touch the wood bodied molding planes….


----------



## theoldfart

Picked this up this am. Was a CL listing from my neighborhood.










Just two cutters and missing the short arms. No idea what type, B stamp and floral casting. The 78 was a bonus item.


----------



## Johnny7

Nice get TOF.

My guess is Type 7-8 (1896-1908 era)


----------



## theoldfart

Johnny, thanks. At $30 I couldn't say no! The rosewood is in excellent shape. It supposedly came from the workshop at the San Francisco mint when they closed in the 60's.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Bandit, now I don't feel so bad about the $27 plus $8 shipping for the old 45 I got. I kind of thought it was too much but it is still in usable shape so I guess it was okay. Two hundred seems out there.

Good score Kevin, you got the long foot and the cam. Not bad. Soak it all but the wood in evaporust and I bet it turns out nice.


----------



## theoldfart

Blaster, I had a Record 405 for a number of years. I lucked out, I paid retail(at the time) but it also came with all the extra cutters both metric and standard. It also had a H&R set. The nice thing is the parts are all interchangeable with the Stanley.


----------



## theoldfart

I've narrowed down the type to 8. Does anyone have any info on the 8A vs 8B designation?


----------



## steve104c

Found a Craftsman multi plane, copy of the Stanley 45. Haven't used it yet but it is great shape. Found it in Canton, Texas about 30 years ago.


----------



## Mosquito

8A vs 8B? Do you mean Type 7 A and B? I'd not heard of reference to Type 8 having an A and B. With the type 7 it was that 7A was the prototypes for the new design change (when they went to knob on fence, etc), and the 7B was the actual production version


----------



## theoldfart

I just assumed there was an A&B. Thanks for the clarification. Started wire brushing it, all the screws are moving freely. Next up is polish from the Dremel.


----------



## BlasterStumps

A Craftsman clone might be more rare than the Stanley. I haven't seen that many anyway. Have any pictures of it you could post?


> Found a Craftsman multi plane, copy of the Stanley 45. Haven t used it yet but it is great shape. Found it in Canton, Texas about 30 years ago.
> 
> - steve104c


----------



## Just_Iain

Record 44 should be in the mail today so might see it before I go back to work on the 7th. In the mean time, pull out the 45s and figure out if I have even one whole plane. It might be a franken 45 but we'll see.


----------



## JADobson

If anyone remembers my problem with the fence slipping on my 45 I solved it. I grabbed some of that tacky goo that comes in your junk mail and holds down credit cards inside the envelopes and crazy glued it to the tip of the screw. No more trouble with it slipping. Perhaps not the most traditional fix but the plane is working again.


----------



## theoldfart

Clever workaround JAD.

Finished cleaning the new-to-me 45. A quick wax and we're in bidnez.

I have a line on a set of cutters back in my old neighborhood. Asked a friend to pick them up.

Did Stanley use a box for the cutters on a type 8?


----------



## Mosquito

Nice fix JA, if it works it works

Kevin, yes, they all came with boxes of some sort, whether it was wood or cardboard, or a combination thereof.


----------



## theoldfart

BTW, Mos, the link to Alfs is kaput. Account suspended or something like that.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks for the heads up, I'll leave it there for now, and hope it comes back… tht was a good source of some info


----------



## Mosquito

.


----------



## DavePolaschek

I posted an update on the Veritas combination plane comparison we did in 2017 with my thoughts after having used it for more than a year.

Tl;dr: don't buy the tongue-cutters & the nickers just suck. I suspect a failed heat-treat on them.


----------



## HokieKen

Alright 45'ers. I've decided recently I'd like a plane to quickly plow rabbets. Sometimes it just takes longer to set up a dado stack on the table saw or change bits in the router and set the table up than it does to actually cut the rabbet. So I started looking at Millers Falls 85 planes (same as Stanley 78) and was about to pull the trigger on one this morning. But then I wondered… would a 45 give me enough additional capability to justify the added expense to go that way instead?

I'm not a hand tool only guy by any stretch but I definitely enjoy my planes and use whatever tool gets the job done whether it has a plug or not. So I could see doing rabbets and stopped dadoes/grooves with this thing mostly. I don't see myself making moldings or doing any beading or anything decorative like that.

So, shall I just stick with the simple rabbet plane with a fence and depth stop or is the 45 a logical alternative that will add the ability to do grooves and dadoes? And, probably more importantly, is the setup fast enough that I will actually use it for multiple tasks or will I just set it up for rabbets and leave it set because setup is too tedious? And finally, all things considered, even if it does just end up being a rabbet plane, is a superior, inferior or on par with a #78-type rabbet plane?

Appreciate any feedback. And if anyone has a 45 for sale, feel free to make it known ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

Depends. Do you think you'd have a similar use case for grooves, beads, or T&G? If yes, then I'd say a #45 would be a good option, but if not then a #78 type rabbet would suffice. A #46 if you were thinking you'd be doing a lot of end grain rabbets, but those aren't any cheaper than a #45, but has the advantage of skewed iron.

I think the #78 is a little easier to use for rabbets, personally, once you get the depth of cut adjusted. What I like about the #45, though, is the slightly larger fence, and I just like #45s lol

Also, I've probably got 1 or 2, or 4 #45's I could part with, I'd have to go look at the 'extra' stash… Last time I opened a cupboard in the old kitchenette shop, I found 3 more I had forgotten about lol


----------



## KentInOttawa

Kenny,

I have a Record 50C Plough Plane (a functional equivalent to a 45) and a Record 778 (a functional equivalent to a 78). Even though I have the straight blades for the plough plane, I still use the rebate plane. Both types of plane are pretty good at what they do, so I would say to get both. Sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Thank you Kent. The voice of experience is exactly what I want to hear!  So then I gather that strictly from a rabbeting standpoint, you feel the 78 (or equivalent) is superior? Care to elaborate on what makes it better suited for that task?

Mos - I am intrigued by the statement about the wider fence on the 45. One of my concerns with plowing rabbets with a plane is keeping the plane square to the stock. So any advantages in stability are worth noting. I can see plowing grooves for sliding tops in boxes and drawer bottoms but probably not much beyond that. Rabbets would be the primary use. Ability to do grooves and do dadoes would be a plus but not at the expense of good, square rabbets.

Please let me know about any 45s you have for sale. Yours are probably nicer and more complete than I need and consequently probably worth more than I'm inclined to spend. But, since eBay is really my only other option, maybe not!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Hokie, if you can find a good condition wooden skew rabbet plane, that is also a good way I would go.


----------



## Mosquito

> Yours are probably nicer and more complete than I need
> 
> - HokieKen


You'd be surprised lol These are the ones that didn't end up in the display case lol


----------



## KentInOttawa

> So then I gather that strictly from a rabbeting standpoint, you feel the 78 (or equivalent) is superior? Care to elaborate on what makes it better suited for that task?
> 
> Ability to do grooves and do dadoes would be a plus but not at the expense of good, square rabbets.
> 
> - HokieKen


Regarding the square rabbets, both my planes need attention to technique to ensure that they don't rock to the left once you start to approach the depth of the depth stop. The rabbet plane is (marginally) easier to set up because it is left set up with the blade installed, so that is what I use. I tend to leave my planes at their last-used setting when I put them away, so this makes the rabbet plane very easy to use; just set the fence (rabbet width) and depth stop, back off the blade about 1/2 turn, and then start planing.

The 778 can be set for a very coarse depth of cut, which greatly speeds up cutting. I typically do this after I have started my rabbet and have established a full-length shoulder. Like when using a 45, I start at the end and finish at the beginning.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Ken, I found a nice wooden rabbet plane on eBay a while back. It still needs a little tuning up, but it's more pleasant to use if I'm cutting with the grain. If I'm working cross-grain, my Veritas skew rabbet works pretty well. A good nicker seems to be the key for me, and I haven't dialed in the one on the wooden plane yet. As for the Veritas Combination Plane (their 45 clone), the spear-point nickers on mine are too soft and fold over when I'm working cross-grain in oak. Haven't used a real 45, but I wouldn't recommend the Veritas combo plane if you're just looking to do rabbets. Unless you use a backsaw to score the edges as a separate step. I do that for cross-grain dadoes and rabbets fairly often, since then I know I won't have trouble. But then I sometimes reach for a chisel rather than a plane to finish the rabbet.

As Kent says, you need to pay some attention to your technique so you keep the plane square with any of them.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks for the feedback all! I think I've decided a 45 looks like a fun toy in addition to being a solid rabbet plane alternative. Plus Mos' has a couple he's offered to sell me at prices I can stomach so I won't have to go through the pain of trying to figure out if ebay listings are complete or whether they're in good shape.


----------



## HokieKen

Well, I gots me a new toy )









Thanks to Mos' for sharing a little piece of his stash!

Now for the first question I'll be pestering you guys with… The plane Mos' sold me is complete best I can tell aside from the long rods (no problem to make those) and the cam rest. So, my question is, do I need that cam rest or is that one of those things that no one ever uses?


----------



## WayneC

> So, my question is, do I need that cam rest or is that one of those things that no one ever uses?
> 
> - HokieKen


My OCD would not prevent me from having a cam rest.


----------



## HokieKen

I know what you mean Wayne. Unfortunately, my thriftiness outweighs my OCD though making this a bit tougher of a decision though ;-) Looks like I'm probably in for a minimum of $20 for the cam rest. Which is fine if it's something I'm actually going to use. But if I'm never going to use it, I can live without it. There are many other things that can absorb my $20…


----------



## bandit571

It is nice, IF you are out in the middle of a board, like doing a groove….have used mine on one project….


----------



## HokieKen

What would you say is the distance at which it becomes useful Bandit? I could imagine plowing grooves up to 6" off the edge for shelves in shop cabinets. Anything further is unlikely but, never say never…


----------



## WayneC

Also, if you're making rods, you could make 12" or even 18" rods if you desire. This might make the cam more interesting.


----------



## HokieKen

Speaking of rods, is anyone in need of any? I haven't measured the diameter yet but if I don't have the right size stock, I can turn some down on my metal lathe. Happy to make extras if anyone needs them for just the cost of the stock and shipping.

Wayne, I was considering just making some 6" lengths and drilling/tapping the ends then making some coupling studs to go with. Then I can make them as long as I need them but I won't have to increase the size of the storage box I need to make to house this thing


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Also, if you re making rods, you could make 12" or even 18" rods if you desire. This might make the cam more interesting.
> 
> - WayneC


At the risk of sounding heretical, it would be fairly simple to fabricate a functional equivalent for the cam block from a small offcut.


----------



## HokieKen

Already been there Kent ;-) Actually have a small piece Lignum Vitae that I was wondering if it shouldn't be repurposed for that. I'll probably just wait until I need it then make it then if I don't find one in the meantime.


----------



## WayneC

LOL. I have a big storage box for my combination/plough planes.












> At the risk of sounding heretical, it would be fairly simple to fabricate a functional equivalent for the cam block from a small offcut.
> 
> - Kent


Nothing heretical. I often do what is simple if i'm not struck by OCD…. lol


----------



## HokieKen

That might be just a smidge bigger than I require Wayne ;-P


----------



## WayneC

You have not been bitten by other planes in this class. Record 043 and 044. Stanley 46, 50 and 55.


----------



## DanKrager

I really like your idea of coupling rods together, Ken. A nice touch that would be just for looks is to make a round end cap to "finish the end".

I could see making such by taking oversize rod, cutting to length and threading the ends to couple, and then turn the OD full length in one pass with a steady rest. There are days I wish I had an engine lathe and milling machine.

DanK


----------



## Mosquito

> You have not been bitten by other planes in this class. Record 043 and 044. Stanley 46, 50 and 55.
> 
> - WayneC


Or just more #45s… my storage box for 45s is a whole china hutch, and it's not big enough :-D

I like the expandable long ride idea as well, as long as everything lines up right.

I have used the camrest very very few times. Even when doing something in the middle of the board, I didn't find it all that useful, just be more careful


----------



## HokieKen

That would definitely be the ideal way to do it Dan. Unfortunately, I'm lacking either a steady rest or a follow rest at present. I'm on the hunt for a steady for my 9" South Bend but so far, all the ones I've found seem to be made of gold and filled with unicorn blood. I'm pretty handy with a 4-jaw and an indicator though ;-)


----------



## BlasterStumps

HokieKen, for what it is worth, I made some long rods out of a long drill bit. Fit great. I just cut two lengths off the bit and still had a stub to put in a chuck if I needed it. I think I made the rods 7 or 8" , can't remember which. 
Mike


----------



## theoldfart

Why does everybody fail to mention the 405? I'm hurt, really, the snobbery!  And , it has a British accent.


----------



## HokieKen

It's not blue OF. What's the point in having a Record that isn't blue? That's just a Stanley with the name misspelled.


----------



## HokieKen

Honestly I'm a Millers Falls guy. I've slowly replaced all of my bench planes over the past couple of years with MF equivalents. Except my jointer which is a Record 07 (blue one). Unfortunately, MF never made a 45 equivalent :-(


----------



## theoldfart

Hmmmmmm you gotta point. Let me get back to you on that.

Edit: Hah, the cutters come in a Blue case and that counts.










I rest my case!


----------



## WayneC

No snobbery here. I have a 405.


----------



## theoldfart

and a Luban.


----------



## theoldfart

So Kenny is kind of a Red guy then?

I have a MF router plane and a No.9 smoother. The smoother came from my grandfather.


----------



## Mosquito

I've been wanting to add a 405 to the collection for a while, just haven't found the right deal yet. I've got all thos erecord H&R bases, I need a plane to go with them


----------



## HokieKen

Dammit OF, now I need a 405! ;-))

I gotta say, I have a Record 07 and 080 cabinet scraper and they are both excellent tools. I wouldn't have hesitated to grab the 405 instead of the 45 had one presented itself at the right price.


----------



## Mosquito

I've moved my bench plane users over to my Keen Kutter KK series planes, and have been slowly buying IBC irons for them. It's a really nice combination. Though you have to get used to the reverse-threading on the depth adjuster lol


----------



## WayneC

> I ve been wanting to add a 405 to the collection for a while, just haven t found the right deal yet. I ve got all thos erecord H&R bases, I need a plane to go with them
> 
> - Mosquito


Look something like this?


----------



## HokieKen

> So Kenny is kind of a Red guy then?
> 
> I have a MF router plane and a No.9 smoother. The smoother came from my grandfather.
> 
> - theoldfart


Red mostly in the area between my head and shoulders ;-) A #9 was what started me down the MF trail. I have a Stanley 71 router that's slated for replacement when I find a decent MF 67 to take its place.


----------



## WayneC

I don't think I have a millers falls plane. I've got a number of drills/bit brace.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Dan,

I was actually trying to get the idea across of making (cobbling) a cam rest, something like this:










The black lines would require shaping and the red line would be a saw kerf to allow the screw to clamp the rod. A more accurate layout would definitely help here.

FWIW, my Record 050C doesn't have a cam rest.


----------



## bandit571

Cutting a groove for a lid..









Made on the inside of a box..









Later, I came back, after the box was glued up, added a groove around the outside of the box so I could split off the lid, and have a dust seal









Was having issues with the plane wanting to lean a bit..









Was building a new box to house the type 20 No. 45


----------



## RWE

Bandit: Can you post the dimensions of your box and a shot of the lid after you have it completed. I keep getting sidetracked, but I plan to make a similar box. I had planned on doing the double groove technique. Looks like 1/2 inch lumber?


----------



## CL810

Kenny, I have an extra that's yours if you still need it.



> ...do I need that cam rest or is that one of those things that no one ever uses?
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## HokieKen

You're my hero CL810! Much appreciated ) PM on the way.


----------



## bandit571

Box is 12-1/2" long, by 7-3/4" wide, stands 5-1/4" tall, with the lid closed…









View inside the lid..









Per the original box, cutter storage…









You have to tear the plane down to store it away…









Then just close the lid..


----------



## RWE

Bandit:

Thanks. A picture is worth a thousand words as they say. May do mine with box joints.


----------



## Mosquito

Almost like that Wayne, except mine are the older style, with the flat wing screws instead of the knurled ones


----------



## HokieKen

Can y'all guess which ones has been under the brush? ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

Lookin' good already. Even managed to get that slitter screw out lol

Were you able to save any of the nickel, or is that all going away?


----------



## HokieKen

Screw was easy. The spur was the trick.

So is there any way to remove the depth adjuster short of drilling out the key pin?


----------



## HokieKen

Before:









After:









Tote crumbled on me when I was trying to pull the pins so I could soak it in BLO. So it gets a new tote and knob to match…


----------



## HokieKen

Missed the question about the nickel Mos. It's mostly gone. I brass-brushed everything and if the plating held on, I left it. Very little held on. I'm okay with that. Not a fan of nickel plating.


----------



## Mosquito

I've not yet successfully removed a tote with out breaking something, and I've also not found a good way to get the depth adjuster off either


----------



## HokieKen

I worked around the depth adjuster no problem. The tote was really dry and cracked so I'm not upset about replacing it.


----------



## DavePolaschek

What I want to know is how you're planning to plug that in, Kenny. ;-P

Nice work cleaning it up. It's pretty now!


----------



## HokieKen

It's pretty for now. I have it soaking in an oil bath now but I have a feeling it'll still be more prone to rust than I'd like with most of the nickel gone. I may have to spray some kind of clear coat on it eventually. I'll just play that by ear though.


----------



## WayneC

I don't think I have a millers falls plane. I've got a number of drills/bit brace. 


> Almost like that Wayne, except mine are the older style, with the flat wing screws instead of the knurled ones
> 
> - Mosquito


I thought your ones with wing screws were Stanley.


----------



## WayneC

It looking great Kenny.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Re: storage of multiplanes. My 45 and 46 and all special bases for the stanley 45 are unceremoniously dumped into a single drawer under the bench. Someday they may get better homes.


----------



## WayneC

> Re: storage of multiplanes. My 45 and 46 and all special bases for the stanley 45 are unceremoniously dumped into a single drawer under the bench. Someday they may get better homes.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Poor babies lol


----------



## theoldfart

A tool addicts riddle. How many tools does it take to make a lid for a 45 box?









Answer, all of 'em!


----------



## HokieKen

I like the sliding tray in top of that drawer for the cutters Smitty. That's slick.

On an unrelated note… I'm pondering the addition of a sliding deadman to my bench so I took note of yours. Curious why the different sized holes and what you use in them? I'm guessing the Stanley (293? can't recall #) clamps? I considered that. Until I went out hunting for some online. Talk about sticker shock!


----------



## HokieKen

I could have sworn that at some point I saw a link to 45 related graphics in this thread but now I can't find them. Am I nuts? Was that on another site?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> I like the sliding tray in top of that drawer for the cutters Smitty. That s slick.
> 
> On an unrelated note… I m pondering the addition of a sliding deadman to my bench so I took note of yours. Curious why the different sized holes and what you use in them? I m guessing the Stanley (293? can t recall #) clamps? I considered that. Until I went out hunting for some online. Talk about sticker shock!
> 
> - HokieKen


3/4" holes for hold fasts and pegs, 1" holes for the No. 205 clamps. I got my two for $10 apiece, very lucky craigslist find. I think Leach sells them for around $45 apiece now?

EDIT: Yes, there's a post here on LJs that has reproduction 45 graphics for cutter boxes, that's where I got mine.


----------



## Johnny7

Not to be that guy, but I believe you two are discussing Stanley No. *203* bench brackets


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yep, 203s. My bad, thanks for keeping my honest and on track Johnny.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, $45 each is about what I found Smitty. Little rich for me. I see Kevin uses them too 

Thanks for that link Smitty. I hadn't even thought about the cutter box yet but I will eventually  Somewhere at some point, I found reproduction label graphics someone did for the main box. I'll have to go scouring the interwebs again ;-)


----------



## bandit571

I tried printing one out….









They came out of the printer a little bit blue…instead of green









I may try again…since I still have the old OEM box ( dremel storage)









May use the camera and take a couple…









Hmmm…maybe not..


----------



## WayneC

You might ask DonW about the labels, there is a guy in the handplane Facebook group that makes them. I think Don would remember his name.


----------



## donwilwol

shot me a PM and I'll respond with an email


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Wayne and Don. PM on the way


----------



## HokieKen

So, I'm working on overhauling the 45 I got from Mos' (blog series here). So been poking about the interwebs looking for customized 45s. Found this one from Lines Chisels and Brayers. I really like what he did but there is something about it that just ruins the entire plane for me. Am I alone in my revulsion? And don't get me wrong, it's his plane and he should do as he wants and is obviously a skilled guy. But, it's like a bumper sticker on a Ferrari :-(


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Best part by far is the handle / tote. Looks very user friendly. Not a fan of the white touchuos.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree Smitty. The white is horrendous to my eyes :-/ I do like the knob and tote.

What say those of you who have experience using these things; is the addition of the wood on the bottom of the depth guide a good one? A bad one? Neither help nor hindrance?


----------



## theoldfart

He has linked two stops to mount his guide and they are for different purposes. They should work independently.

I also like the tote/handle. The rest not so much.


----------



## HokieKen

Did he? I'm not sure that the slitter depth guide is actually attached to that added piece Kevin. I think it may just be resting on top in that position. Assuming the the slitter guide remains independent, good idea or not useful?


----------



## theoldfart

I can't tell for sure if it is attached Ken. The added thickness of the wooden guide reduces the usable range of the forward guide


----------



## HokieKen

I'm working on my new tote on this thing. I feel like the pins would be extraneous with epoxy holding the tote on. Anyone feel differently?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

No harm in trying epoxy only!


----------



## HokieKen

The last pic looked so coarse, I figured I should show the finished piece 









And the accompanying knob.


----------



## Mosquito

Did I miss you breaking the original knob? I sent it with, right? Now you have me nervous I forgot to pack that lol


----------



## HokieKen

Nope you didn't forget it and nope, I didn't break it  Just didn't really like it and wanted to make one that matched the tote (which I did break). If you (or anyone else) needs/wants a spare knob though, shoot me a PM and I'll be glad to send the original one out. Nothing wrong with it, it's actually in really good shape )

(EDIT)
Here it is:


----------



## WayneC

I'm looking forward to seeing some shavings from the 45.


----------



## HokieKen

You and me both Wayne! I just need some finish on the wood bits and some rust protection on the steel then I'll be ready to re-assemble it and sharpen up some irons and find out if I can even figure out how to use this thing ;-)

I sharpened the spurs last night. That was no small feat with my big clumsy sausage fingers!


----------



## HokieKen

Update on the knob I offered up yesterday: It's been claimed. I got quite a few PMs about it, didn't think there would be that many planes out there missing that knob… Sorry fellas!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That was very generous of you, Ken. I've seen quite a few of those threaded types either stripped or broken/wired in place or missing altogether.


----------



## WayneC

> Update on the knob I offered up yesterday: It s been claimed. I got quite a few PMs about it, didn t think there would be that many planes out there missing that knob… Sorry fellas!
> 
> - HokieKen


I'm not surprised at all. Very nice of you.


----------



## HokieKen

Just returning the good Karma, have been on the other end of the generosity of LJs on more than one occasion  In fact, Andy (CL810) just sent me a cam rest for my 45 last week )


----------



## HokieKen

The 45 I got from Mos' has been overhauled and put back together  Now I just need to sharpen some cutters and make some chips


----------



## JADobson

Looking real good!


----------



## CL810

Ken, the knob and handle are beautiful!


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks gents! I have to say, this is probably the most beautifully made tool from Stanley I've ever had my mitts on. It was a lot of fun to shine it up and give it some new wood bits )


----------



## WayneC

Be careful. There are similar planes lurking out there waiting to tempt you…

Record 043/044, Stanley 46, 50 and 55 for example.


----------



## theoldfart

Ahem, Wayne! And…......Record 405. I'm beginning to feel slighted again :-(


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"Stanley's Most Beautiful Tool" 
.
.
.
Wayne gave great examples, and I'd add the Miller's Patent line to those: No. 41 through No. 44, even though I've never seen one in person.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree, Stanley did make some nicer looking planes. This is just the nicest one that's found its way into my shop 

We'll see if I even use this one enough to justify having it. From there I'll decide how far down this particular rabbit hole I want to go…


----------



## Mosquito

Some day I want to own a millers patent… Probably one of my favorite planes to look at. Especially the earlier type with the longer top horn, and the hook in the casting by the tote










But then there's also the earlier Millers patent #50s










But then, outside of Stanley, I also quite like the Fales patent plane










Or Philips patent










And Morris patent










And don't forget Mayo patents…










Hmm, maybe I just like combination planes in general…


----------



## theoldfart

ya think! Someone has to keep track of all this and your just the guy to do it! Keep up the good work and wake me if there is something I can afford.


----------



## Mosquito

Fales patents aren't too bad, until you start trying to collect the bases lol


----------



## WayneC

> Ahem, Wayne! And…......Record 405. I m beginning to feel slighted again :-(
> 
> - theoldfart


I considered that duplicative of the 45. Also, there was a some good record hollow and rounds on ebay a couple of hours ago buy it now. I'm not sure they are still up there. I almost bought them but already had two of each. $100 for 8 and 10 complete Hollow and round and a 12 round and cutter that had been repaired. Cutters included.


----------



## WayneC

There are also 140 series millers patent.


----------



## Mosquito

Ah yes, the bull nose variants. I've actually recently had scenarios where a bullnose plow plane would have been nice


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I think that Millers patent #50 would be the first plane to own that I might not feel compelled to use regularly. Just to damn nice (and frail-looking) to use for dado cutting….


----------



## WayneC

I just closed out the T&G metal planes. I completed the Sargent T&Gs (1066, 1067 and 1068). They are some cool looking planes. I already had Union and Stanley 48 and 49 variants and the 146-148.


----------



## WayneC

I might add the KK and fulton variants of the 48 and 49 if I find them but that might be excessive… lol


----------



## Mosquito

what is this "excessive" thing you speak of Wayne? I'm not sure I know the meaning of that term :^)


----------



## WayneC

Good point. My list is getting shorter. Just good ones remaining. Smitty like planes….

e.g. Stanley 9, 444, 51/52.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ah, the Fun Stuff!

That reminds me, I need a No. 196… Gotta stay ahead of Wayne.


----------



## WayneC

Actually the one I'm jonesing for is the Walke-Moore 2500. 


> Ah, the Fun Stuff!
> 
> That reminds me, I need a No. 196… Gotta stay ahead of Wayne.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


That's $1200-$1500 of ebay fun right there. Too rich for my blood.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The No. 164 is my grail.


----------



## WayneC

There is a 64 at one of the local antique shops. I think it's around $700.

I had a Stanley 62 and a LN 62. Ended up selling the Stanley and keeping the LN. If I was to get a 164, it probably would be a LN.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

A 64 or 164?


----------



## HokieKen

I'm not looking any of these planes up. The new tax code that's so beneficial to the middle class just bent me over and sent me to bed without desert. I don't need temptation. You guys are bad influences! ;-)


----------



## WayneC

> A 64 or 164?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Stanley 64


----------



## EarlS

Kenny - I get to find out how much more of my money Uncle Sam wants next week. Now you have me worried.


----------



## HokieKen

'Twas eye-opening Earl :-/

So I finally pulled my cutters out of the box tonight and found out that most of them are missing the notch for the depth adjuster.









I can use them by fully tetracting the depth adjuster.










My inclination is to cut a notch and keep on rolling. But first, I thought I'd check and see if there is a reason not to do so. I know that makes this a
earlier set of cutters. So I didn't want to deface them in case they're desirable in this condition.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's a decent price for a 64


----------



## Mosquito

wow, I screwed that one up Kenny lol Sent a PM


----------



## theoldfart

No notches = very early type if I remember correctly.


----------



## HokieKen

Well, that wasnt a complaint  I just figured that since the unnotched cutters will work, maybe they were commonly used with the depth adjuster. And for what I paid, I had no beef! But Mos' said it was an accident se we're gonna trade so I'll have a set with notches. Thanks Mos ;-)

So, nevermind, disregard my question)


----------



## Mosquito

You can use them with the depth adjuster, you just have to set the iron shallow/no cut, and then use the depth adjuster to push the back of the cutter. What you lose is the ability to retract the iron with the depth adjuster. I don't often retract irons with the depth adjuster, because I sneak up on a good cut and generally take light passes, but it is definitely nice to have when you do need it (and especially when getting used to using a #45)

Yes Kevin, they would be for types 1-4, as type 5 introduced the depth adjuster, so 1884-1892


----------



## WayneC

> No notches = very early type if I remember correctly.
> 
> - theoldfart


I was going to make a comment about the Record guy… lol but thought better of it. So I made a comment about thinking about making a comment about the record guy. We really need to take a road trip….


----------



## theoldfart

Wayne, I haven't forgotten. Family issues, out of town guests, then my asthma kicked up and now i'm forced to go to Hawaii shortly.


----------



## WayneC

I remember the rough duty trips I had to take to Hawaii when I was in the military. Quite primitive. They made you eat pig that they buried, drink stuff with fruit in it and other awful stuff. I've been crazy busy too…


----------



## HokieKen

Hard luck Kevin. Sorry man. We spent a couple of weeks in Hawaii in February a few years ago. It was terrible ;-)

So, the 45's were sold originally with a turnscrew if I understand correctly. I was thinking that I need to get/make a dedicated screwdriver for the tiny screws on the knickers. I'm guessing the original supplied turnscrew fit the locking screws for the fence rods and depth guide? A standard flat blade fit those fine for me. But the only ones I have thin enough to fit the knicker screws are a lot narrower than ideal. So, I figured what the hell, I'll just make 2 turnscrews that imitate the Stanley-supplied one in form.

Anybody have one of the originals that they can snap some pics of for me with a scale next to it? I found some pics online but nothing to give me a good idea of the dimensions of the original.


----------



## Mosquito

Kenny, I can grab better pictures of any of these. Have a preference?


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, the one on the left Mos'. That's the one I intend to copy. If you could lay a scale next to it so I can get the lengths and maybe take measurements of:

The large diameter of the handle
The width across the flats of the handle
The diameter of the necked down section of the handle
The diameter of the ferrule

I'd be much appreciative  No rush, it won't be happening this weekend or anything ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

You got it. I think I recall someone else making one a few years ago here on LJ, but good luck lol


----------



## WayneC

MOS. Do any of those have model numbers? Especially, the second from the right. I'm looking for one for a late model 55.


----------



## Mosquito

I'll check when I get home, some might. I'll check my #55's and see if I've got any screwdrivers with those too, I don't remember


----------



## WayneC

Thanks. Anything that would help me when looking at the drivers on ebay or when I'm out on a rust hunt would be appreciated.


----------



## HokieKen

Were there screwdrivers that fit the knicker screws ever supplied with the planes? Just curious. Even my gunsmith drivers don't have a size that's a great fit with those.


----------



## WayneC

I've only seen the type that MOS has shared.


----------



## bandit571

Been using a very small, wooden handled (squared, stained red) screwdriver, to do the spurs with….

Between project maintenance…tore the Stanley 45 down. Removed and cleaned all the bolts. Oiled all threads. 
Placed all parts back into the case…..even found a couple cutters! They had fallen over, and other cutters were standing on them ( how rude!).....dug them both out.

One other screwdriver in use….but, it has Millers Falls stamped into the Ferrel. handle is more like a wooden ball, with grooves for a grip.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, just the ones I posted above that I've seen. They're smaller than they might look by themselves though, because I've used some of them for the knickers on my #45's before:










Though they're not always the best fit, admittedly


----------



## HokieKen

Hmmm. Interesting. In that case, could you measure the thickness of the business end if you have a caliper or micrometer Mos? The flat blade that fit the rod and depth guide locking screws on mine wouldn't even think about fitting in the slots on the knickers.

Actually, never mind… screwdrivers that don't fit properly irk me. I'll just make two


----------



## WayneC

I did some looking on eBay. I did not see anything original but I did buy this one to add to the combination plane box. It's actually a Stanley 55 screwdriver, but that is the driver model number, not the function.


----------



## Mosquito

it doesn't look too off from what they were. I've got a couple of small ratcheting screwdrivers that I've thought would work well, but they haven't made it into the shop yet lol


----------



## HokieKen

That's a unique ferrule design Wayne. Don't recall ever seeing one quite like that. Is that a wood handle or molded? I'll have to look that model up.


----------



## WayneC

> it doesn t look too off from what they were. I ve got a couple of small ratcheting screwdrivers that I ve thought would work well, but they haven t made it into the shop yet lol
> 
> - Mosquito


North brothers makes some nice ones that would work.


----------



## WayneC

> That's a unique ferrule design Wayne. Don't recall ever seeing one quite like that. Is that a wood handle or molded? I'll have to look that model up.
> 
> - HokieKen


Wood.

http://progress-is-fine.blogspot.com/2014/02/stanley-no-55-screwdrivers.html


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks for the read Wayne. I looked up the patent and see the novelty of how the shank locks into the bolster. Not sure there was really any relevance to the stepped down portion of the bolster though. Still looks cool and struck me as unique though 



> it doesn t look too off from what they were. I ve got a couple of small ratcheting screwdrivers that I ve thought would work well, but they haven t made it into the shop yet lol
> 
> - Mosquito


Never met a ratcheting screwdriver that I liked yet. I do have a couple of "Archimedes" push drivers that see a fair bit of action installing wood screws in my shop though


----------



## WayneC

Look at north brothers #10 or #15 ratcheting screwdrivers. Page 13 and 14 in this document.


----------



## Mosquito

Ha, Wayne, one is a North Brothers, Yankee No. 15 (right). Other is a "Yankee" No. 2H (left)


----------



## HokieKen

You convinced me Wayne. Yankee #15 screwdriver is on the ever-growing "keep an eye out for…" list. I like the ball handle with the knurled thumb piece on the shaft. That would be worth investigating 

The #60 also sparked an idea in my head for the turnscrews I want to make to dedicate to my 45 ;-))


----------



## WayneC

I don't think I've ever seen a 60. I have a bunch of 15s. They are nice.

Mos. I like the the grind on the yankee 2h. I tend to avoid handyman tools, perhaps I should reconsider.


----------



## Mosquito

The ratchet mechanism on the 2H isn't as nice feeling as the one on the 15, but it still feels alright. I don't often go for the handyman's myself either


----------



## Mosquito

Kenny:









Most of those measurements are converted mm to inch, so some slight rounding involved

http://www.mosquitomediaserver.com/tempUpload/images/Turnscrew1.png
http://www.mosquitomediaserver.com/tempUpload/images/Turnscrew2.png


----------



## HokieKen

Sweet! Thanks Mos' )


----------



## Mosquito

Let me know if you want anything else from it. That's a scan, to make sure everything was in the same plane, and the angle was exactly straight on, but that also means the edges not touchign the scanner bed are fuzzy lol


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have a wood handled screwdriver like the one in Mos's picture. Is it just a common screwdriver from back in the day or was it from a plane like a 45 or something like that? The one I have is just a shade smaller overall than the dimensions in the last picture.


----------



## Mosquito

If I make it out to the shop tomorrow, I'll take a quick glance at the other one I've got like that, and see. It could very well just be that there was some variance to the versions of the screwdrivers. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were hand turned back then


----------



## OleGrump

Yep, I agree. he did a FINE job in making the wooden parts, with great craftsmanship. If only he'd STOPPED there, and just cleaned and polished the metal parts. The white highlights have turned what would have been a very nice looking 45 into something looking like a POS. There ought to be laws….


----------



## bandit571

All of these screwdrivers have been used on mine..









Square handled one works nicely for the spurs….as does that Goodell-Pratt "chef's hat" one. Not enough room for that large one…the Perfection Handled one does a nice job on the larger bolts…all put away..









Until needed, again..


----------



## bandit571

The one with the ball-like handle is from Millers Falls….according to the logo stamped on it.


----------



## WayneC

Mos,

Can you do some measurements on the later style drivers?


----------



## HokieKen

I thought I had some O1 steel to make the turnscrews from. But I was mistaken. I did however find a stash of Perfect Handle screwdrivers that don't have scales and have been generally abused. I forgot that I had tucked them away with the intention of grinding the tips to specific purposes. So, I think I'm gonna grind a couple of those to fit the screws on this plane and use some of the Rosewood I used for the knob and tote to make scales for them.

Sorry for the trouble Mos but it looks like Wayne may put the dimensions to use


----------



## Mosquito

lol no worries, the more info out in the wild the better 

Wayne, sure thing. On one of the screwdrivers I had out, I didn't see a number stamped into it, but didn't look at all of them. I was a little pre-occupied by a frozen furnace drip line that was causing the water to back up and overflow all over a shelving unit I had in the corner lol


----------



## WayneC

Frozen drip lines…. yuck.

The trees are blooming in California. Close to 70 yesterday.


----------



## Mosquito

worst damage was that block of curly maple and the plane iron that was sitting on top of it, intending to make a plane out of it some day, but may have to wait a while longer for it to dry out again. Plane iron should clean up fine, just annoying


----------



## Mosquito

Chopped ice for about 45 with an axe (splitting maul, technically), and used the heat gun to melt the ice plug in the end of the drip line. About a gallon of water came out when the plug was melted enough to get blown out of it lol

Will have to keep an eye on it from now on, and make sure the drips don't freeze up around it again


----------



## HokieKen

That sucks Mos'. Fun MN winters!


----------



## Mosquito

It wasn't that bad, and could certainly have been worse. The shop is built around the idea that there could be water on the floor so I'm pretty well protected against that (almost nothing but these shelves, and some carpet and the scafforlding being stored behind it) sits directly on the floor with out either treated lumber, insulation foam, or casters under it, since I've had much worse water problems in the past, and "just in case". I just wasn't prepared for a water attack from above lol


----------



## EarlS

Mos - that reminds me that I need to check the furnace and hot water heater vents. They vent out the side of the house next to the dryer vent.


----------



## WayneC

Do you have any kind of water sensor in the basement?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Mos, if that water is anything like what comes off my furnace, it is very caustic. You might want to neutralize it somehow. Especially around the shelf and that blade.


----------



## Mosquito

Wayne, for me this is in the shop, so no basement, but no on the water sensors.

Mike, I was going to give it a try, as that's what I had read as well. Some of the things aren't going to be very easy to do that with, but we'll see what I can do. I used some baking soda mixed with water on the wall panel, then dried it out with the heat gun, so we'll see how that turns out.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> worst damage was that block of curly maple and the plane iron that was sitting on top of it, intending to make a plane out of it some day, but may have to wait a while longer for it to dry out again.


Between the acid in the water and the iron, it looks like you ebonized your block of maple. Nice work?


----------



## EarlS

The UPS man dropped off a box of goodies this afternoon.




























Many Thanks Mos!!!!

The casting and metal is in really good shape. Looks like a bit of new wood and it will look better than Kenny's. For now, it is safely stored in the tool cabinet until I have time to work on it, hopefully later this spring or summer. I have to learn how to use a lathe so I can make a proper knob for it. Of course, I will also have to read through all of the information posted at the top of this forum as well as in the posts. Should be a lot of fun!!!!


----------



## HokieKen

Dang Mos' did ypu feel sorry for Earl and clean that thing up for him? That looks like it's in great shape. Which, mone was too, I just had to scrub some rust away ;-) Have fun with it Earl! I'm constantly thinking what I can improve by adding a bead ;-)

I got a package from Mos today too! Now I have notched irons  I'll send the others on the return flight tomorrow. Thanks again for everything man.


----------



## DanKrager

Mos, I shoved a thermostatically controlled "heat tape" into my furnace exhaust drip. Haven't had any problems since. Sorry that happened!

If that block is ebonized, that could be some extraordinarily beautiful wood.

DanK


----------



## Mosquito

> Between the acid in the water and the iron, it looks like you ebonized your block of maple. Nice work?
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


that it does lol I was kind of thinking that myself to "Huh, I wouldn't have expected maple to react that much…. oh…. oh crap"

It could Dan, but since it's dried out for a bit, it's not that dark anymore. May be a good way to 'save' it, if it doesn't turn out so well though lol

lol to be fair Kenny, it's the one you turned down  Someone previous to me cleaned it up, though I think they lacquered the wood on it, which always annoys me. Or when they lacquer the whole thing…

And with that I'm down to just 1 #45. And by that, I mean 1 that I don't intend to put in the display case, or in the stable of users. So l guess I'm down to 25 lol


----------



## WayneC

> And with that I m down to just 1 #45. And by that, I mean 1 that I don t intend to put in the display case, or in the stable of users. So l guess I m down to 25 lol
> 
> - Mosquito


Sounds like me and router planes… lol


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I still got the winner Mos' . Especially now that my cutters move up AND down with the adjuster )


----------



## theoldfart

Wayne, what about that overstock in small Prestons? hehe


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos, I shoved a thermostatically controlled "heat tape" into my furnace exhaust drip. Haven t had any problems since. Sorry that happened!
> 
> - Dan Krager


I missed that part originally. The issue here was that the water dripping on the ground froze up around the pipe, not as much that the pipe itself froze. it didn't look like the pipe froze until the ice was already frozen around it (the ice was actually formed up over the bottom of the pipe by about 1/2" all around). I think I'll be alright as long as I just keep breaking the ice up occasionally during the cold weather


----------



## DanKrager

The tape hangs out of the pipe and keeps the stalagmite from forming.

DanK


----------



## WayneC

> Wayne, what about that overstock in small Prestons? hehe
> 
> - theoldfart


No such thing as an over stock of Prestons.


----------



## EarlS

Mos - if you want to try to ebonize your maple, get some vinegar and steel wool and put them in a plastic container with the lid sitting on top of it, not tight or it will over pressure from the hydrogen being released from the vinegar reacting with the iron. They will make iron acetate which turns the tanin in the wood black. For even darker ebonizing, make some strong Lipton tea and give the wood a good washing with the tea, let it dry then use the iron acetate. You can turn most any wood black that way and it stands up to light sanding.


----------



## HokieKen

Don't you ebonize that beautiful curly hunka wood Mos'! Earl, quit being a bad influence.


----------



## Mosquito

Ha, I'm hoping it doesn't come to that lol But, if it did, it would likely be after it was completed not before


----------



## Mosquito

Did a little organizing. Got a few more combination planes on stands










Union No. 44, Ohio O99, Keen Kutter K64, and Fales Patent (tehnically Otis A. Smith made it).

I'll also have to get the Sargeant 1080 up there as well sometime. I'm thinking I might pull the Fales patent down on to its own narrower shelf, so I can display all the bases I have for it as well (plus, I don't think I'm done using that one yet lol)


----------



## donwilwol

You're working on a Combination Plane Museum Mos!


----------



## WayneC

> You re working on a Combination Plane Museum Mos!
> 
> - Don W


He should write a book.


----------



## Mosquito

hehe, ever since I finished my Type-based collection of #45's, I've been expanding out into other derrivatives of combination planes (that I can afford lol).

At first I thought about trying to find all the Stanley-made #45 clones I could (like the Keen Kutter, and technically my Union, although Sigley #2 in form, was made/branded after Stanley bought Siegley and Union). But it's more turned into just combination planes in general with the Ohio and the Fales


----------



## WayneC

Interesting how that happens. I kind of have the same thing going with Router planes.


----------



## BenDupre

So this showed up on the porch today










Thanks Mos!

I have never sharpened a curved bevel before. Does anyone have a suggestion how to clean up the bead cutters?

Ben


----------



## BlasterStumps

I touched up a small gouge chisel the other day by flattening the back then lightly hitting it with a tapered dremel stone. finally a ceramic rod. I can see that working where the ceramic rod will fit but of course not on the small beading cutters. There you will most likely need a tapered diamond rod.


----------



## Mosquito

Honestly what I do is just flatten the back then roll sand paper to be the right size for the smaller ones, and then just wrap a dowel with sandpaper for the larger ones. I've never gone crazy with cleaning the bevels though


----------



## DLK

I have also used the method that Mos suggests. Plus I have charged the dowel with green chromium oxide.

Recently I made a bunch of "MFD" files by gluing 1/2 inch MDF to a pine board, cut strips of various widths, shape the MDF side to the right shape (1/6 of circle with radius the width of the strip). I then wrap sand paper around it and/or charge it with black, green, red chromium oxide (Actually I make 5 of each size for use with different chromium oxide grits.). I should blog about this.

I also use round Arkansas stones, slip stones and ceramic files that I bought from SharpeningSupplies.com


----------



## Bluenote38

+1 on the slip stone and a leather wrapped dowel charged with polishing compound. It what I use on my carving gouges.


----------



## Mosquito

I've been meaning to buy slip stones, but I've just been too lazy to lol

Got a second shallower shelf up for the Fales plane bottoms, but… I already have enough to fill the shelf, and there are like 50 other profiles I don't have lol










Working on a few more stands for my Fulton, and maybe a #55 though I'm not sure on that one.


----------



## HokieKen

> I have also used the method that Mos suggests. Plus I have charged the dowel with green chromium oxide.
> 
> Recently I made a bunch of "MFD" files by gluing 1/2 inch MDF to a pine board, cut strips of various widths, shape the MDF side to the right shape (1/6 of circle with radius the width of the strip). I then wrap sand paper around it and/or charge it with black, green, red chromium oxide (Actually I make 5 of each size for use with different chromium oxide grits.). *I should blog about this.
> *
> I also use round Arkansas stones, slip stones and ceramic files that I bought from SharpeningSupplies.com
> 
> - Combo Prof


I agree Don, you should


----------



## WayneC

> I ve been meaning to buy slip stones, but I ve just been too lazy to lol
> 
> Got a second shallower shelf up for the Fales plane bottoms, but… I already have enough to fill the shelf, and there are like 50 other profiles I don t have lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Working on a few more stands for my Fulton, and maybe a #55 though I m not sure on that one.
> 
> - Mosquito


You're not going to assemble an example of each 55 type?


----------



## Mosquito

I have thought about it Wayne, but had initially stayed away from that due to expense lol


----------



## WayneC

You should do it. We would all like to live vicariously through you.


----------



## donwilwol

> You should do it. We would all like to live vicariously through you.
> 
> - WayneC


So true


----------



## Mosquito

lol I'll see if the 3 I've got are separate types and go from there  That's sort of how I got started on the #45 thing. I had a handful, and it turned out I only had 2 of the same type… and it just sorta spiraled from there.

Will also have to try to find a type study to research on the #55's as well


----------



## Mosquito

You people…

Got the Fulton set up with a stand tonight










And then I ended up with 2 extras, since I was batching them out, so this happened too










So here's where we're at currently


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Don't you put that stink on [us], Ricky Bobby!!


----------



## WayneC

Looks very nice.


----------



## donwilwol

When do the glass doors arrive?


----------



## Mosquito

lol Don, that would be a whole other project for time I don't have right now  Maybe glass or acrylic boxes to go over them would be faster :-D


----------



## Mosquito

I struggled with that spot next to the Fales patent plane. First I put a #46 there, but that just didn't feel right. Wasn't an interesting enough plane for me next to the Fales. Tried a #55, but that was too big, and overshadowing. The Union (Siegley) wasn't the right style…

I found the perfect item to put next to it last night as I walked through the old Kitchennette shop on the way out to the shop. Our first Shop Art swap item I received.


----------



## DLK

Which one is the art piece? LOL


----------



## WayneC

> Which one is the art piece? LOL
> 
> - Combo Prof


Obviously the one on the left.


----------



## HokieKen

I think that's a great filler piece Mos'  For some reason, it just seems to fit in.


----------



## BenDupre

How do you guys sharpen spurs?

Thanks!

Ben


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> How do you guys sharpen spurs?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ben
> 
> - BenDupre


Very Carefully…

I've used the 'solid' area of my DuoSharp stones and struggled to hold the spur/knicker in a way that spares my fingers from abrasion. Using the edge of the stone helps in that regard. It's an exercise in patience; go as long as I can for a decent edge; it's a scoring tool more than an actual grain cutter to me; maybe because I give up too soon?


----------



## RWE

I don't remember where I got the idea from, maybe Paul Sellers, or just YouTube. Get a small dowel or a rectangle would work as well. Think of a pencil sized piece of wood. Put a screw into the end of the dowel. Once you can get the screw in, pull it out and put your spur on using the screw. Use the dowel to hold the spur and you can spare your finger tips as Smitty mentioned. You gain control and get better precision. I did this for some Stanley 45 spurs and it worked well.


----------



## Mosquito

> I think that s a great filler piece Mos  For some reason, it just seems to fit in.
> 
> - HokieKen


I know, right? When I set it there next to it, I couldn't quite figure out why, but I knew it was just right when I saw it…



> How do you guys sharpen spurs?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ben
> 
> - BenDupre


If I ever make it into the shop tonight, I can take a picture, but I use a small wood screw and attach the spur to a the face of a square dowel, and use that to sharpen it, sort of like the sharpening jig Lee Valley sells for their router plane blades. Then I just use my stones. Other than to clean it up, do not sharpen the flat side. You need to make sure that stays as co-planar to the skate as possible, or it won't work quite right


----------



## Mosquito

lol apparently RWE and I type at the same time, and do the same thing


----------



## HokieKen

Like this:









Mos' and RWE have a MUCH better idea…


----------



## WayneC

Kenny, I bet your finger nails are sharp as heck.


----------



## HokieKen

They are Wayne. It almost makes up for the skinless knuckles!


----------



## DanKrager

I had my knickers as sharp as any tool I own and I found that a good pre-score with a new utility knife still helped a LOT. Every other stroke, a new score with the knife. Work progresses rapidly and smoothly with virtually no tearout. The knickers I have were round when I got them and they still are, but if I ever make a replacement they may be knife shaped. That prevents dragging back strokes but I normally don't drag planes backwards. It IS pretty handy, however, to make the first pass of the plane a backstroke even when I pre-score with a knife. Seems to help orient the plane and sets up the pattern for muscle memory to begin working on my behalf.

I've found that the knickers, being adjustable, just won't hold their setting, always getting pushed to the back. Tried wedging them, but that wasn't successful. If the plane wasn't such a rare thing, I would consider drilling and tapping for a small flat head screw just behind the knickers so that the wedge shaped head of the screw riding against the back of the knicker would make an adjustable knicker setting hold. Knicker would have to have a shallow semi-circular recess to allow the head below the surface. Oh well, I got it to work and work well. Was (and am) excited about it.
DanK


----------



## Mosquito

Dan, I'm curious to know if you were talking about a #45 or not? Based on your description, it sounds like you are talking about the straight-blade type knickers that #46's had, but on #45's they were all the 3-blade spurs to my knowledge, and if I might be so bold as to say, I'm fairly knowledable so that would be a bit of a shock to me lol


----------



## bandit571

Unless they were made by Sargent?


----------



## DanKrager

Actually Mos, I was speaking about the knickers on the 444 dovetail plane. Got it on the wrong thread, I guess. Sorry.

DanK


----------



## Mosquito

Wouldn't be a #45 if it was a sargent would it bandit ;-)

Dan, makes sense, I was just confused at first lol


----------



## HokieKen

> Actually Mos, I was speaking about the knickers on the 444 dovetail plane. Got it on the wrong thread, I guess. Sorry.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Whew! Being a newb to the 45, I was trying to figure out what in the hell you were talking about Dan ;-)


----------



## WayneC

Mmmm. 444 Dovetail plane. Now I'm wanting a new plane even though I got a new one on Monday.

Not a 45 or a combination plane, but here it is


----------



## BenDupre

> Mmmm. 444 Dovetail plane. Now I m wanting a new plane even though I got a new one on Monday.
> 
> Not a 45 or a combination plane, but here it is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - WayneC


Chop chop!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Found this nice Dunlap screwdriver today in a local antique shop. Looks like it would be a good one to keep in the box with the combination planes.


----------



## bandit571

Have one like that…









Except it is labeled "Millers Falls" on the ferel


----------



## BlasterStumps

I saw it earlier when you put that picture up. Nice little group of screwdrivers. What is the "chef's hat" type from do you know?


----------



## Johnny7

> What is the "chef s hat" type from do you know?
> 
> - BlasterStumps


That's a Goodell-Pratt No. 278.










Here's mine:


----------



## bandit571

They used to be in a set of tools to be carried in the trunk of your car…also


----------



## BlasterStumps

I've been planning for a while now to build a box for the 45's and 46. Not much else going on in my shop right now so I am finally gettin' round to it. : )

Since I don't have any more of the southern yellow pine that the box is made out of, I will probably make the lid out of some 1/2 plywood with solid wood edging. Today, I was cutting some pieces to hold the planes upright in the box. Once I get them mounted in there, I am planning a tray in the front of the box for rods and blades, screwdriver, etc.

My shop is not very pleasant at 53º today. My creative juices weren't flowing so I quit for the day. : )


----------



## WayneC

Those Goodell-Pratt screwdrivers are nice.


----------



## Johnny7

> Those Goodell-Pratt screwdrivers are nice.
> 
> - WayneC


And just stop to think, in 1923, you could buy one of these rosewood-handled, nickel-plated beauties for 20 cents!

(based on catalog price of $2.40/dozen)


----------



## Mosquito

Nice blaster. For something to hold them up, a 1/4" wide groove in a board stood up edge wise works pretty well when you slide the fence up to it. That's essentially all my #45 stands are (there's just a taller base to it)


----------



## WayneC

I think I have at least one of those screwdrivers in my tool chest. I really like Goodell-Pratt tools. Only exception is their handplanes suck. I got a beautiful brace in the mail today.


----------



## Johnny7

A Goodell-Pratt 2510?


----------



## WayneC

> A Goodell-Pratt 2510?
> 
> - Johnny7


Yes Sir. I buy them when I find them.


----------



## HokieKen

I needed to plow a groove for a chisel stand this morning so I broke my 45 cherry )


----------



## BlasterStumps

Looks good Kenny. Fun tools huh?

Mos, thanks for the suggestion for mounting them in the box. All done. Now on to making a lid.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I might have to try my hand at sewing. I need a tool roll-up for the 46 cutters. This could get interesting. : )


----------



## Mosquito

Nice, lookin' good


----------



## donwilwol

> I struggled with that spot next to the Fales patent plane. First I put a #46 there, but that just didn t feel right. Wasn t an interesting enough plane for me next to the Fales. Tried a #55, but that was too big, and overshadowing. The Union (Siegley) wasn t the right style…
> 
> I found the perfect item to put next to it last night as I walked through the old Kitchennette shop on the way out to the shop. Our first Shop Art swap item I received.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito


It need a Fales pointing in the opposite direction. ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

lol funny enough, that was my other thought Don


----------



## RWE

A while back, probably a year ago, I posted about a Sargent 1080 that I had purchased. It was actually a Craftsman branded 1080. It had all the irons and it cleaned up nicely. Actually had a screwdriver with it. It was my first combo. However I wanted a 45. So I picked up two 45's and between them a good set of irons. I gave the Craftsman 1080 to a friend who has benignly neglected it, more of a power tool guy.

So I walk in an antique mall and spot this baby. The Craftsman has no cache'. I love the look of this fellow. It is not that old from what I could find on my research 40's/50's. However it has no irons. Just the short rods. Just what you see.

So my idea is to buy it, get the old Craftsman back and have a sure nuff Sargent with some style. The Craftsman has both sets of rods and all of the irons. They are notched differently from the Stanley style.

Anyone have a 1080 like this. There is one on the Bay in the box for big bucks. I believe that I read that Stanley made these for Sargent. Hope to get it for around $40 or $50.


----------



## Mosquito

I don't have a Craftsman or Sargent… Mine's a Fulton :-D










And you're right, the irons are notched differently, because there's a little tooth that catches the inside of a little groove in the depth adjuster, to hold it against the wheel as you adjust the depth. Someone must have actually used it while prototyping, as it does work pretty well, and is sometimes nicer than the Stanley adjustment mechanism


----------



## RWE

Do you know if Stanley actually made this model for all of the different sellers: Craftsman, Fulton and Sargent? Kind of a crazy business the way they manufacture and brand things.


----------



## Mosquito

Stanley did make the combination planes for Sargeant and Chraftsman, among others, but that was after this style. These were made by Sargent until the early-mid 40's I believe it was. If I'm remembering correctly, Stanley didn't start making them for Sargeant et al until the late 40's, 1948 or 1949 maybe


----------



## WayneC

> I might have to try my hand at sewing. I need a tool roll-up for the 46 cutters. This could get interesting. : )
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Waxed canvas? Leather work is another good skill to learn or you could make a wooden box like the ones for 45 cutters depending on where you would store them.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I probably shouldn't admit this but, I have a set of cutters for the Craftsman that I cut additional notches in so they could be used in the Stanley 45. They are all I have for the 45 at this time. They cost me $3 at a flea market sale. One day, I'm hoping to stumble onto a nice set of Stanley cutters.


----------



## WayneC

It makes them usable.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Come to think of it, they might be from a Wards plane. They're not marked.


----------



## Mosquito

You missed the fire sale Mike, I'm fresh out of depth-adjustable cutter sets for a #45 lol At least ones I'm willing to part with lol I have partial sets, and a few odd cutters here and there, but that's about it.

I'd be curious to see what you had to do to the craftsman cutters to get them to work with the Stanley. I would have thought they would have worked out of the box. Were the slots just not deep enough?


----------



## WayneC

Well. 100 years from now there might be a Wards collector…. lol


----------



## BlasterStumps

It ain't purdy but here's a picture of one:


----------



## Mosquito

Ahhhh gotcha. Later style irons. The earlier ones (like I have) are just a notch. That does make sense then.


----------



## HokieKen

Don't look bad at all from my seat Mike!

Anybody got a spare beading depth stop that attaches to the skate they want to sell? I realized while breaking mine in over the weekend that it would be beneficial to have. At least I think it would…


----------



## Mosquito

I'll try to dig around in my parts and see if I've got any spares, but I hadn't found any before with the rest of those planes I sold off


----------



## WayneC

I don't think so…


----------



## DLK

You boys have me confused. I thought the craftsman I have was made by Sargent and is a no. 3728.




























But it looks different So what do I have?

I just now re-searched the web and I think it must have been made by Stanley. Am I right? 
Different conclusion then when I looked for it in 2008. (I can't belive it is 10+ years later.)


----------



## Mosquito

Nope Don, still Sargent made, just a Type 2 (1942-1943)
http://www.sargent-planes.com/sargent-1080-combination-plane/

The Stanley made Sargents looked like Stanley #45's (depth adjuster, mainly being the difference from what you have)
http://www.sargent-planes.com/sargent-1080-combination-plane-stanley-made/


----------



## DLK

So was the "hot dog handle" (or whatever its called) thats attached to the fence something I am missing or was it not part of type 2 or simply not included in the craftsman version? I couldn't tell from the type 2 description.


----------



## bandit571

Have mine put away, for now…









Have a very different plane in use..
.








Made down in Cinci, OH. about 1864…









Seems to work well enough…


----------



## Mosquito

Don:



> Construction: Cast iron body, Mahogany handle, *knob* & fence plate


And then down below that were a number of pictures including a Craftsman branded 1080 just like yours


----------



## DLK

Ah. O.K. I will update my records. I guess the knob replaced the function of the "hot dog handle". I wonder why they did that?


----------



## BlasterStumps

My storage box is done! Yay! I can check that off my projects list.


----------



## WayneC

What a beautiful box.


----------



## HokieKen

Nicely done Mike!


----------



## bandit571

had to "fire" the old plough plane, today..









dang arms were too long….so









Took about 10 minutes to assemble, and set up the 45, for the same job…


----------



## RWE

I got the "hot dog handle" 1080 (mentioned a few posts back). I will be delivering it to my friend that had the Craftsman branded 1080 that I had gifted to him. Between the two planes, one set of irons, he will be in good shape. I have the same situation, two 45's but one set of irons.

All's well that ends well, except that now I will be jealous of him having that cool "hot dog handle" 1080. Maybe I can start a GoFundMe to buy the original in box 1080 currently on Ebay.

No good tool should suffer the indignity of being lost and neglected in some antique mall. I have done my duty.


----------



## BlasterStumps

You are a good man RWE. Nice!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks guys for the comments on the box. It was fun actually.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Bandit, looks like you are going great guns on the drawers for that cabinet you are doing. Hopefully one day, I will run across more cutters for my 45 and hopefully one will be a 1/4". I want to set one plane up just for doing what you are doing there, cutting the groove for the drawer bottom. Anyway, looking good Bandit. You will be assembling that cabinet before you know it.


----------



## HokieKen

> Bandit, looks like you are going great guns on the drawers for that cabinet you are doing. *Hopefully one day, I will run across more cutters for my 45 and hopefully one will be a 1/4"*. I want to set one plane up just for doing what you are doing there, cutting the groove for the drawer bottom. Anyway, looking good Bandit. You will be assembling that cabinet before you know it.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


I was taking inventory of my tool steel selection last night Mike and I have some small scraps that frankly, I'm not sure why I even kept them… But, I'm pretty sure there's one big enough that I could make you up a 1/4" cutter for the 45 if ya like


----------



## Mosquito

Box looks great Mike.

Good work RWE


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Mos. What I like best is that it will hold all the combo planes and 78's that I have. Keep them protected and all together. I'm happy, happy.

Kenny, That's a nice offer and I certainly appreciate it. I don't want to put you to a bunch of trouble though. I have had some good luck finding some old tools around these parts so I bet I will run onto some cutters sooner or later. I usually find something good when I least expect it. : ) I imagine you have plenty of projects going on. Thanks again.


----------



## Mosquito

I'll check to see what I've got in my Misc irons to see if I've got a 1/4" iron. Or would you want a full set of plow irons? I know I've got one of those, but no beading irons to go with them (it's one of the late type boxes, where straight irons came in one box, beading, T&G and sash came in another)


----------



## WayneC

Another addition to my Mosquito style mini plow plane collection arrived in the mail today. A pemuvar Plough plane from the UK.




























With a Record 043 for size.


----------



## BlasterStumps

That's very nice Mos and I really appreciate it but I am low on mad money right now. I think to keep peace in the family as they say, I better hold off buying more tools for the time being. If I had to, I could modify a little wider blade to make a 1/4". I'm not working on any project requiring the tool at this time so I thought I would just keep an eye out for 45 cutters. If a guy is patient, you never know what will surface. The other day, I found a few 46 cutters. Not a full set but something like 7 or 8 of them. Again, I appreciate it but need to hold off for now. Thank you.


----------



## Mosquito

Those are retty sweet Wayne

This is the latest of the combination plane videos I've been doing as interesting planes show up in my shop… I might try to do one on the Siegley style planes soon too


----------



## DavePolaschek

Nice, Mos. On my Veritas Combination, I sometimes move the fence to the other side so the shavings eject left, but I'm using the plane "left handed" so that works. It's not really laid out to do that, but it works, and solves the shavings getting jammed up problem. But I really like the little ramp on the Phillips Patent one. That's slick!


----------



## Mosquito

It makes me wish I had a wider iron with it, so I could see how it works with that.


----------



## HokieKen

If you can give me a sketch with dimensions I can make you a wider one from some O1 Mos'.


----------



## Mosquito

Kenny… What color cape would I need to send you for expressing my appreciation of that?

I will try to throw something together and shoot you a message (probably wouldn't be until tonight, so don't be on the lookout for it yet )


----------



## HokieKen

Well, I'm leaving Saturday and will be out of town for 2 weeks. So don't rush, you ain't gettin' it anytime real soon ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

haha, I'm not worried it's not like it's my daily driver


----------



## HokieKen

Mos, I forgot about this until a post on a different thread jogged my memory. I'm back home so if you still need this iron, shoot me some dimensions


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Kenny, I'll get to it this weekend. Life got busy, so it got pushed way down the list knowing you were out anyway. How was the time away?


----------



## HokieKen

The time away was fantastic. Of course two weeks away means the 6 weeks after you get back have you busier than a one-armed paper hanger ;-) I happen to be grinding some metal now and will be heat treating it soon so it's an opportune time for me to knock that thing out for you


----------



## woodcox

A question(s) on a wood aux fence. Do I need to include the recess that is on the alloy fence? Does this allow the fence to cover the side of the cutter for rabbeting?


















What is an ideal aux fence size in relation to the size of the original? I'm assuming just thick enough but I'm unsure how long or tall to make it?


----------



## Mosquito

My understanding was that the longer recess was like you have it in the second picture and mention, to let the moving skate sink into it. It is my beliefe that this allows you to leave the moving skate in place when using narrower irons than what using both skates requires. When doing rabbets, it's irrelevant whether the sliding skate can go flush with the fence or not, because you can always put the sliding skate anywhere in between, since you're rmoving that wood anyway (and would be my preferred way of doing it, because it offers stability to the plane by having both skates riding on the wood instead of just 1).

The shorter recess that extends further into the fence is clearance for the iron when setting up for rabbits.

For wooden auxillary fences, I would make it about the length of the plane (fence included), and if you want to be able to use it for rabbets and/or narrow cuts, then I'd make sure to leave room for that in the wooden fence, but if you're not intending to ever use narrow irons (guessing 1/8" and 3/16" would be the only two that would not allow both skates), then you'd be fine to cover it up


----------



## woodcox

Thank you, Sir. I hadn't thought about the s-s being there then for the stability. I don't have a rose chunk big enough so I've started a small hickory one. P

This is a great resource, Mos. Nice work.


----------



## woodcox

None of my other planes have their own box.


----------



## woodcox

Finished sans finished with the record box. Some thick maple veneer over ply for the top and more maple for the cutter box. The divider lifts out with everything on it. The top pull is hickory with some bark still there.


----------



## Mosquito

that looks great WC!


----------



## HokieKen

I like it Woodcox! One of my "fun" projects on the short list is a storage box for my 45. Things got too many pieces to go on the till. Uncooperative little booger.


----------



## woodcox

These definitely need their place to stay together. I had little stuff all over within a few days. An original box would have been nice to copy. All paper boxes for these by then I suppose. Finding or reproducing an appropriate label might be left to do for this box.

It was fun to make, Kenny. Fitting your 45 will be more so I would think. Stop the build before glass front is necessary though. MOs can't swing the cat anymore.


----------



## bandit571

Random photos.









Hmmm..
.








Wards 78









Awaiting it's turn…









While Mr. Rosebloom gets Groovy….









Open a lid..









cutters..









Parts is parts


----------



## bandit571

OEM box, from Roxton Pond, Que, Can.













































What it came home as…


----------



## Ocelot

Well, I finally bought a 45. I'm hoping it's completish. Only 20 cutters though. I hope it's not missing the first one I want to use.


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice! Looks nice and clean.


----------



## Ocelot

Thanks Boss!

I paid US. $137 shipped.


----------



## RWE

"Well, I finally bought a 45." I think you mean that you finally bought your first 45!

Looks real nice and a good price for the shape it is in.


----------



## Ocelot

> "Well, I finally bought a 45." I think you mean that you finally bought your first 45!
> 
> Looks real nice and a good price for the shape it is in.
> 
> - RWE


Thanks.

Hmmm. If it were only my *first* 45, it should be $30, badly rusted and missing more parts.
I've got 2 No 8's, 5 No 7's, 5 No 6's, 5 No 5's, 6 No 4's (unless I forgot some), 2 No 3's, a 5 1/4 and
A W. S. Birmingham 4 1/2. Also some woodies (asian too) and a 148! I'm never buying another plane again… at least (probably) not this week.

I told my wife that it'll be a father's day gift. Since then I recall that I have argued that I don't need to give her Mothers' day gifts 'cause she's not my mother. 

She's cool with it, because she's a member of the "Yarn Hoarder's Exchange" (from which many packages have arrived and none have been sent out from here.

-Paul


----------



## RWE

Well I can talk with about 3's, 4's and 5's but you out do me on the 8's, 7's and 6's. I have one 8, 2 6's and a bunch of the 4's and 5's. Probably have 2 #3's now.

One thing I have you beat on though, I have two 45's. My first one did not have the adjustable fence, so I got a second one for that reason. I share the irons between the two. I believe that your new one has the adjustable fence and that is a nice feature.

Enjoy. I have two handsaws in process of being sharpened, two back saws waiting for some attention, four planes needing Japaning and tuning. Tonight I finished the 5th chisel that I have done this week. Turned handles and sharpened them. I got 3 P S & W chisels (not the latter Pexto trademark, just P. S. & W.) and one Shapleigh (sp), plus a no name a couple of weeks ago quite by accident. All were socket chisels.  All of those chisels seem to be late 1800's or early 1900's. Very nice quality steel.

It is an addiction.


----------



## Ocelot

I have hesitated to buy a 45 because they are so complicated and have so many parts. I haven't taken to time to study them.

I have not received my plane, but looking at the photos I have 3 questions.

Q1) What goes in this hole (below)?









Q2) What does in this little hole (below)?









Q3) I have seen a thing called a Cam Rest, but I don't think my plane has one. Is that a problem?


----------



## Mosquito

You know this is a good place to ask questions and learn right? ;-)

A1) Optional location for a second depth stop, or the beading stop

A2) Pin that holds the blade clamp in the right position (see the keyway cut in the part that clamps the blade). In Earlier planes this was not present, and when removing and replacing blades the clamp block cound spin, annoyingly.


----------



## Ocelot

Mos,

So do I need a beading stop or second depth stop? Was one probably supplied with this plane but now lost?

I saw the slot/keyway but I couldn't tell if something was missing.

I edited above to ask about the CAM rest. Is that something I'll need?

Thanks,
-Paul


----------



## Ocelot

Is *this* the beading stop. I couldn't figure out what it was in the photo.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That is a beading stop, yes. (see parts list link in OP above)


----------



## HokieKen

That is the beading stop Paul. I just bought one because I think it will be useful for getting a flat bottom on grooves. I have the cam rest for mine and I think it will be handy in some circumstances for stability. But, to date I haven't used it so can't really comment intelligently  I can say that they are missing from a lot of the planes I've seen online and people don't generally seem to mind not having it.


----------



## Ocelot

Thanks guys.

Sounds like I did OK. Can't wait to get it!


----------



## Mosquito

The beading stop is really only used if you're trying to cut a bead on a tongue board when doing T&G, that little step in it goes under the sliding skate, so it's not particularily useful for much else that I've found yet. The second dept stop is nice, per what Kenny mentioned, but certainly not needed.

I've never used a cam rest and felt like it was worth an extra expense if a plane didn't come with it


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Missing a (not) in that last part, Mos?


----------



## Mosquito

I don't think so? I've not found the cam rest to be particularily useful in my workflow with a #45 (or #55), but would be curious to find out about others' experiences to the contrary


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, I thought you meant it wasn't worth an extra expense to get one if it didn't come with. So you'd advise going on the market and getting one to be complete?


----------



## Mosquito

What you thought I meant, is exactly what I meant about the cam rest lol. If the #45 a person buys does not include it, I do not personally see it as necessary to go out and buy one. I find them to be too expensive (too easily lost by previous owners), to be worth it


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop




----------



## Mosquito

Now, if I was in posession of a large pile of Cam Rests that I didn't need, it might be a different story


----------



## Ocelot

I notice that St. James Bay lists rough bronze castings for cam rests on eBay for $5 plus shipping, but they are the kind where the screw presses against the rod to prevent turning. (and you have to finish them with a file and tap them and supply a screw). This kind.









There is another kind, which I presume is later, where the screw squeezes the thing onto the rod, which seems like it would work better.









-Paul


----------



## Mosquito

The style with the screw that pushes into it should have a little brass plug that is between the fence rod and the screw so that the fence rod won't get galled up. They're often missing, because it's a tiny little piece of brass that can fall out in some of them (usually the piece of brass is long enough to not fall out, but not always)


----------



## bandit571

2nd cam rest is the first version Stanley made….then they made the one in the first photo after that…









I have the second version….helps when you are at the end of the long rods, keeps the plane from tipping


----------



## Ocelot

Ah, I guessed wrong about which one was first.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, it always seemed backwards to me as well, you'd think te thumb screw would be easier/an improvement…

I have not had an issue with my plane tipping like many suggest is an iminent problem when using it like in Bandit's photo above. I find good technique and judicious use of concentration has spared me from needing to use one, outside of just trying it


----------



## HokieKen

> Yeah, it always seemed backwards to me as well, you d think te thumb screw would be easier/an improvement…
> 
> *I have not had an issue with my plane tipping like many suggest is an iminent problem when using it like in Bandit s photo above.* I find good technique and judicious use of concentration has spared me from needing to use one, outside of just trying it
> 
> - Mosquito


I'm the opposite  In fairness, I've only used my 45 once though. I think Mos' might have used one a couple of more times.

The one time I did use it, I was plowing a 1/4" groove. So, while it wasn't at all awkward to keep it running properly (at least I thought so) when I got done, my groove was slightly deeper on the side opposite the depth stop. The cam rest might have helped but I came to the conclusion that a beading stop will be the best solution. I'll report back once I've validated or refuted that hypothesis. I also don't know that it would be necessary to use either with a wider cutter. But again, that's just my gut instinct. I haven't had the time to really experiment and play with this plane to know for sure.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> I have not had an issue with my plane tipping like many suggest is an iminent problem when using it like in Bandit s photo above. I find good technique and judicious use of concentration has spared me from needing to use one, outside of just trying it


I'm with Mos, though I have the Veritas rather than a 45. I do find that I use the second depth stop - if I haven't removed the second skate, I'll adjust both depth stops the same and I have almost no problem with tipping. Well, tipping the plane, anyhow. But even doing narrow grooves where I have to remove a skate, I seem to do pretty well with only one depth stop. But maybe it's just a Minnesota thing. ;-)


----------



## Ocelot

I received my 45 today. All 23 cutters are there, but the 1/8 seems to be broken off where the notch would be.

The depth stop lock screw seems longer than needed and has a shoulder, which doesn't seem right.

The thing that would hold the slitter is missing.

The narrowest tongue cutter has a.funny bent thing.

Everything else looks good.
I'm pretty pleased with it.


----------



## bandit571

The notch was needed, too small of a cutter anyway…..depth adjust merely has to push against the end. It is not broken.

The funny bent thing is that cutter's depth stop…


----------



## Ocelot

I just realized that it was set up for left handed use.


----------



## Ocelot

> The notch was needed, too small of a cutter anyway…..depth adjust merely has to push against the end. It is not broken.
> 
> The funny bent thing is that cutter s depth stop…
> 
> - bandit571


Thanks. I was guessing that about the 1/8.

I believe you about the tongue cutter, but I still wonder why the narrow tongue cutter depth stop is different from the sash cutter and the wider tongue cutter.


----------



## bandit571

One, there is not room for the normal depth stops









Two, the fence would be in the way of the stops..









As the fence sits under the cutter..









And the normal depth stops sit out of the way, above the cutter…









I tend to use the T & G set-ups to make corner joints. Just add glue and a couple clamps….


----------



## bandit571

Each cutter has it's own stop, sized to work with that cutter…Size of the slot determines how the bolt is place to lock the setting.

On the 1/8" cutter…if you lay it on a wider cutter, you can see how the 1/8' cutter stops right at the notch on the other cutter. Also, when using the 1/8" cutter, you need only the main, non-sliding part of the plane.

I tend to keep the 1/8" cutter apart from the rest of my cutters, as it tends to hide in the storage bin in the box…and then will get lost…

The slitter cutter has a depth stop for it's own use…...but, can be set to match the main depth stop ahead of it….extra support, when the front stop drops off the end of a board…the slitter stop will still be on the board.


----------



## Ocelot

I didn't ask the question very well.

The no 5 cutter has a depth stop consisting of a cast block, a washer and a screw threaded into the cast block.

The no 6 cutter has a depth stop consisting of a stamped steel piece, a washer, and a screw threaded into the cutter itself.

I was wondering why they are different.

It may just be that the cast block would be too wide to work with the no 6 cutter.


----------



## theoldfart

I've not seen either of those stop configurations before.


----------



## theoldfart

Just checked my two planes to prove my point and i'm wrong. These are from my 405



















This is from my 45, type 8 I think.








Same cast style as Ocelot.


----------



## Ocelot

TOF,

You have a nice collection of cutters there!

-Paul


----------



## bandit571

Mine is a T-20, made in Canada..


----------



## bandit571

And the bolt on the #6 threads into the cutter, itself, a simpler stop than the cast ones, is all.


----------



## Ocelot

The no 6 looks less expensive to make. I'm guessing they added that one last.


----------



## Ocelot

Thanks guys! I'm now assured that I have a complete and seemingly original same-type set of cutters.

I've spent a couple of hours reading this thread and particularly looking at all the pictures. Thanks to all who have posted them over the past 7 years!

I figure that a couple of screws on my plane are swapped and I'm missing the slitter depth stop (easily found on the bay) and associated washer. If someone could measure that washer (diameter and especially thickness), I'd appreciate it.

Do all 45s have a slotted screw to lock the main depth stop?

Right now, I've got a shouldered thumb screw there, that I think should be holding on the slitter and it's stop … while there is a slotted screw where the slitter mounts, which I suspect was originally on the main depth stop.

Thanks,
-Paul


----------



## Ocelot

I'm unlikely to use the No 5 tongue cutter, since I also have a no 148 pushme-pullyou plane.


----------



## HokieKen

Paul - I'll try to remember to measure that washer for you tonight. The pic below should show you which screw goes where for the slitter and the main depth stop.

Now for a question before I screw anything up… Looking at the pic below, we see the slitter and the slitter depth stop. Now, in that position, it's possible the slitter could get in the way if the depth stop was set for a deep enough cut. In that case, the slitter can be inverted but now I run the risk of "slitting" my knuckles when I grab the tote. Of course I could just remove the slitter from its "home" but I don't want to because I'll most certainly loose it…

My slitter has a pretty crappy edge and a good deal of pitting in the bevel anyway. So, my inclination is to just grind that puppy back to where the bevels are closer to the end of the slot. I know that is wasting a lot of metal but, let's be honest, has anyone ever used up a slitter? My other option was to make the slot longer but I like door number one because it doesn't cause the slitter to stick up any further and I'm afraid it would be a knuckle buster if it did.

Any downside to grinding it back? If anyone actually has used up a bunch of their slitter and wants to swap it for my longer one, I'm game! (I won't be holding my breath looking for PMs to pour in though…)


----------



## Mosquito

> Now for a question before I screw anything up… Looking at the pic below, we see the slitter and the slitter depth stop. Now, in that position, it s possible the slitter could get in the way if the depth stop was set for a deep enough cut. In that case, the slitter can be inverted but now I run the risk of "slitting" my knuckles when I grab the tote. Of course I could just remove the slitter from its "home" but I don t want to because I ll most certainly loose it…


And that right there is why slitters are so often missing lol



> Any downside to grinding it back? If anyone actually has used up a bunch of their slitter and wants to swap it for my longer one, I m game! (I won t be holding my breath looking for PMs to pour in though…)
> 
> - HokieKen


If it makes it functional for you, then no. Personally, I have the slitter for mine removed and in the box for my #45 if I'm using it on video because I got a lot of comments from people about having it inverted will make me cut my fingers off (exadurated, but not by much). Personally, in 8 years of using the plane with the slitter inverted, I've yet to cut or scrape a knucke when using it, even though it's not far from it, so that's what I usually do. But you are 100% right, it can get in the way of a deep cut, depending on what you're cutting

Also, one of the first things I do with my #45 is swap the slitter thumb screw with the depth stop pan head, because I'm a lot more likely to change the depth stop setting than the slitter, and would rather a thumb screw for that. I know it's "wrong", but it feels so right


----------



## Ocelot

Kenny,

In other pictures, I've seen the slitter mounted behind the depth stop and the stop turned out rather than in.

My "box-o-cutters" has printed on it that No 8 (the slitter) is installed on the plane - as if it was on there from the factory.


----------



## Ocelot

Mos,

That's the way my plane came to me, and I just swapped it back this morning to make it "right", but I had the same thought… that I'll have to keep a screwdriver handy when using it like that.

The 45 looks like it was designed by a committee!

-Paul


----------



## Ocelot

Mos,

Since you are here… can you help me date my 45?


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, the way the slitter is in the pamphlet is technically "right", but it doesn't really matter, in all honesty. I don't think there's really any distinct advantage either way when in use.

Needing a screwdriver is why Stanley included one in the box, but those are more rare lol

You have a type 16, made between 1936-1948


----------



## Ocelot

Thanks Mos!

The cutter box has SW markings on the label, but the plane does not.

Here's another diagram from the 45 instruction manual.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, the cutter box has the sweet heart logo, you've got the right cutter box for type 16:


----------



## HokieKen

Paul, that washer is 5/8" diameter and .05" thick on mine.


----------



## bandit571

dado with a Stanley 45, type 20…









Works for me..


----------



## Ocelot

Looks good. It works well near the end of a board.

Hmmm. So, if you are making a 7' tall book case, you have to use a batten instead of the fence. I'm not sure what part of the plane would slide along the batten.

That's cool, but probably I'll keep my RAS just in case.

-Paul


----------



## Ocelot

Ken,

Thanks for the measurements.

It's funny. On eBay, they always sell the washer with the screw. I have the screw. So, I can buy the depth stop by itself, or all 3 parts (stop, screw, washer) for $12 more. I think I'll just use some kind of washer I have - that's as close to your measurements as possible…. and just buy the stop. Maybe it's silly, but I have a hard time with a $12 washer. Of course, if I had to pay for your time to measure it… ;-)

Thanks again,

-Paul

P.S. Ken, do you live near Smith Mountain Lake, or Danville?


----------



## Mosquito

Typically it's the main skate that slides along the battern, but really you could do whatever side is more comfortable, as it doesn't really matter. You don't run the risk of accidently moving the skate by pushing on a batten if you use the main skate though.

Also, I agree, I'd rather do dado's other ways than use a #45. #46, maybe :-D Though I often end up cutting the walls, cleaning out with a chisel, and finishing with a router plane myself.

Though I will say, the Phillips patent plane does a surprisingly decent job ad Dados for a non-skewed plow. Fales patent does alright too, when it has the knickers, with its slight skew


----------



## HokieKen

Paul - any old washer will do as long as the diameter isn't too big. There's plenty of thread on the thumb screw so the thickness of the washer isn't going to matter. Smith Mountain Lake is about a 30 minute drive for me. Danville is a little further, about 80 miles.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Here's one I've never heard before - this piece is named a 'depth stop set-up block.'

Ebay item #183866638833


----------



## HokieKen

Oooooh that's fancy Smitty. I guess you didn't include a link because you didn't want us bidding against you ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Let the stampede begin.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vtg-Stanley-45-Plane-Part-Sweetheart-SW-Era-Wooden-Depth-Stop-Set-up-Block-8750/183866638833?hash=item2acf4e41f1:g:YwcAAOSw7p5aa9MD


----------



## DavePolaschek

Note that you may need to clean surface rust off the item. Says so right there in the notes. A steal at $14.99!


----------



## bandit571

Now..IF it was made of Rosewood….and had that "SW" stamp…...


----------



## HokieKen

Huh, according to the listing, it's actually a Stanley part that was included with planes in the SW era. Fact or fiction?


----------



## HokieKen

double post…. At least the site's working today I guess.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Huh, according to the listing, it s actually a Stanley part that was included with planes in the SW era. Fact or fiction?
> 
> - HokieKen


Exactly.

It looks more like a piece of shim material, in the box to keep things arranged for shipment, than a 'depth gauge' tool of some kind. But who am I to judge?


----------



## donwilwol

Maybe It stops the plane from reaching a depth in the box, so maybe not a false statement.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^


----------



## jim_hanna

A small collection compared to some of the writers in this thread.

I have a later Stanley 13-050, top left in the pic, which I believe dates from the 80's.
It can use the Stanley 45/55/Record 405 cutters and was my go-to plane for cross grain work because of
the easy to adjust spurs, at least until I made a set of skew blades for the 46.

My 13-050 says 'Made in England', did Stanley ever produce a successor to the 45 made in the USA?


----------



## Ocelot

Jim,

I was just about to buy a 1/8 tongue iron that was intended for the 13-050 for use in my 45.

Have you used blades from the 13-050 in your 45?

-Paul


----------



## jim_hanna

Paul

I have a Record 405 and not a 45. I have used the simpler blades from the 405 and 55 in the 13-050 but I've never tried the match cutters. I took a look in the garage.
Above pic is the 13-050 1/8 cutter.
I don't have any other 1/8 tongue cutters but the Record 405 3/16 and Stanley 55 3/16 tongue cutters are shown alongside below for comparison.









The clamping mechanism for the 405 is identical to the 45 so the following probably also applies to the 45.
The 13-050 side clamps the cutter between the main body and the sliding section so the depth stop won't foul.
With a 13-050 1/8 tongue cutter the depth stop at the top of its travel can foul against the 405 blade clamp.








Max depth of tongue before an unmodified stop would foul the clamp seems to be about 1/4 inch









Not sure you would want a deeper tongue at 1/8 thickness. If you need deeper it looks very easy to cut off the top part of the depth stop slider.


----------



## jim_hanna

Ocelot / Paul

Above pic is the 13-050 tongue cutter clamped in the 405.

There is quite a gap between the skate and the tongue, the 13-050 cutter probably couldn't be used for thin material.


----------



## Ocelot

Wow
You went to a lot of trouble to answer my question!
Thanks!


----------



## Ocelot

The 45 fence can go under the skate when installed with the lower holes on the rods.

I think it might work on 3/8 boards.


----------



## Ocelot

Well I ordered 1.
There are 2 more for sale on eBay.
The shipping is more than the price of the tool.


----------



## jim_hanna

Good luck, let us know how you get on with the 13-050 cutter.

If it isn't suitable for thin stock then you could always take a grinder to the side of it (and deepen the depth adjusting groove with a diamond file if needed). Something like









This should shift the skate closer to the tongue.


----------



## Ocelot

Thanks for the suggestion.
The thing is coming from your side of the Atlantic, so it will be a few days before I lay my hands on it.


----------



## bandit571

Somebody has been busy, today.
.








Noodles?









Between the Pine grooves, and..









And the ones in the Ash drawer fronts…made quite a pile….#12 cutter…

Getting ready to cut dados, next..









Have to reset the spurs, and install this #18-1/2 cutter… drawer backs need dados to house in…


----------



## OleGrump

Having moved fairly recently, and still settling in, I still have stuff packed "somewhere". Needed to plow a half inch groove in a long-ish board this morning, but didn't know exactly where the 45s are. (yeah, I know, "PLURAL")
Fortunately, the Fulton (Sargent) was handy. Haven't used the old girl in awhile, but I'm happy to say she rose to the occasion, and did the job beautifully. With that reticulated handle on the side, she operates a little differently than the 45, but certainly is also a joy to use.
To paraphrase one of the favorite sayings of deer hunters, "Happiness is a huge shavings pile…"

Side note: The latest bench (Having been made to be somewhat portable in case of another move) is at a full 36 inches. Planing power comes from the legs and upper body, which my poor old back appreciates! I'd rather spend a little time sharpening, than a lot of time using liniment. LOL


----------



## DanKrager

This little treasure chest has lots of 1/8" stopped grooves, at least 12. It will be finger jointed, two tiny drawers, and two trays to hold silver dollars. The grain is continuous around, the odd corner in left rear. This is laying inside up. Using a 45 equipped with a slitter, I was able to separate the drawer fronts from the front panel so the grain is continuous there, too. 
It will have a segmented recurved top. Sycamore really pops without more aid than lacquer.










Repeat customer and this will match his family tree heirloom box.

DanK


----------



## Mosquito

Looking pretty good Dan. What's your approach to stopped grooves?

Sounds like a good use for the slitter. I've known very few people that actually use it lol

My new toys, hot diggity










Compliment of irons for my Phillips patent plane


----------



## DanKrager

Well, Mos, my approach to these tiny, tiny stopped ploughs and dadoes is very careful and slow. Using much the same technique as chopping out a mortise, I scored the wall locations with a one sided knife, and chopped little chips the length. Sycamore is grain directional challenged. There are cross fibers that have to be cut, sort of like cutting fabric. Stringy and tough, so there is no such thing as splitting unless it's where you don't want it, which so far has happened only once on one of the tiny corners supposed to be left standing. I fabricated a blade for the Stanley 71 router and cleaned out the chips in 1/32" increments. It was as sharp as a scalpel, but fuzzies abound. With a LOT of patience, it eventually came clean enough.

THEN I discovered I had cut the ends 5 5/16 instead of 5 7/16!!! Start over! That never happened using a story stick, but I didn't go that route on this. The finger joints are individually hand cut and were not supposed to go into the drawer area. But didn't have coffee this morning, so now it's a design feature!










DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, I never thought about using Scotch Tape to mount hasps before. Brilliant! And clearly a neat idea. 

The box does look good.

Mos, congrats on the cutters. I assume you don't normally find them at garage sales?


----------



## Mosquito

I agree with Kevin on both points. And that's similar to how I generally do stopped grooves as well. I've done them with a #45 before, but it's way more hassle than it's worth, because unless it's very long, you end up doing half of the groove with a chisel and router plane anyway…

And you are right Kevin lol Ended up buying a whole second plane for all those irons… in worse shape than the one I have, so debating if I list it on eBay as is, clean it up and repare the tote and list it on eBay, or do one or the other but keep it in the collection… it is a different type than the one I already have, with some differences in the fence and rod…


----------



## bandit571

After splitting off a lid…









Found out the inside lip was too fat…needed thinned a tiny bit…reset the 45 to do a little trim work..









Already had the long rods installed…needed to slide them out a hair….Added the cam rest. Adjust the fence. Depth stop on the moving skate was used…as the main one was hanging out in mid-air…did all 4 sides…









had already used the plane for grooves to house panels..









Had to install the long rods, to do the inside grooves of the lid..









Was a bit tippy, should have used the cam rest for these..









After the box came out of the clamps, reset the 45 a bit, and ran a groove around on the outside..









This groove is slightly lower than the inside groove…splits off with a sharp knife.


----------



## DanKrager

Maybe this question should be on the restoration thread, but I'll start here.

I have several 45s, 46s, and 55 that are pretty grubby looking with the plating peeled off and patchy. I've seen some that are cleaned up really well, so well in fact, that the missing plating isn't noticeable. How is that done?

Could I use a fine, soft-ish blasting media on the bodies?

Rods can be spun, brass polished a bit, bolts and screws fine wire brushed or with spinning Scotch brite, and the wood buffed out and waxed real well, but the rest?

These are users, but life is too short to use an ugly tool.
DanK


----------



## HokieKen

Dan - I have a blog series on the restoration of my 45. I did exactly what you're suggesting - removed the loose nickel plating but made no effort to remove what still clung to tbe steel. I did it with a few different wire brushes for the clean up then paste waxed everything which kind of blended in the plated and unplated areas. Mine was probably 80% unplated by the time I was finished. YMMV.


----------



## Mosquito

that's pretty much all I ever do too. I use a combination of brass and nylon wheels/brushes to clean it up. Whatever is still stuck on will stay through that, whatever comes off was going to with use anyway


----------



## bandit571

There is a fellow asking about irons for a Stanley 13-050…..wondering IF irons from a Stanley 45 would fit?

Hmmm….


----------



## Ocelot

Well, 3 months ago I was asking about going the other way. The 1/8" tongue cutter from the 13-050 does indeed fit the 45 and can be used. I haven't, however, actually cut any tongue with it. My mind is too fuzzy this morning to even offer an opinion on whether you can go the other way - 'specially since I don't have a 13-050.


----------



## rad457

Guess I can offically join the fourm now, added something new to the shop!
Owners manual printed 1924. looks like only 2 of the cutters used.


----------



## DanKrager

Looking good Andre. Gonna use it?

DanK


----------



## CO_Goose

That looks like new Andre. I can hear Mos drooling on his keyboard now…


----------



## rad457

> Looking good Andre. Gonna use it?
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Yup, first projects, a new box for it. Took Mos's advice, found one with most of the cutters I'll need and in good shape, think the $160 price to my door was fair? (Original box and papers a bonus)


----------



## Mosquito

I would have gladly paid $160 for that plane, if I were looking for one. Pricing is a funny thing, always the case of "if you're happy with it, you didn't overpay".

Not quite drooling CO_Goose, I'm not missing any types except the non-A casting aluminum plane (but I do have an A45) lol


----------



## OleGrump

$160 for a virginal 45, and ya didn't even hafta use a gun…...??? You done REAL good there…... You are RIGHT, Sir! A box for this baby OUGHT to be the first project and priority…. NICE SCORE: Feel free to use your "Tool Gloat" tokens for some time to come….. 8^)


----------



## livewire516

So I picked up my No. 45 for $28, then spent about the same amount of money buying replacement odd thumbscrews and such from the gentleman behind NHPlaneParts.

I plan to use it primarily as my plough (I currently only have a 1/4" cutter); I'm unsure if I'll really use it for other operations. It's still missing the knob on the fence - should I go to the bother of finding/making a replacement?


----------



## Mosquito

> should I go to the bother of finding/making a replacement?
> 
> - livewire516


Not for that type, you'll end up spending as much or more than you spent on the plane just for the knob. They're the most easily lost/damaged knob of all the #45 types, due to the internal threads and no post/nut holding it in place.

I'd recommend just making something to stick on it out of a scrap, and put it to use. I'm not sure I've ever used the knob on a #45 as one would a normal knob. It's almost exclusively something that sits in the web of my thumb, or under my palm anyway


----------



## bandit571

Maybe find an old Stanley #110 knob..just to stick on there, maybe round it off a bit….threads are the same…


----------



## livewire516

> Maybe find an old Stanley #110 knob..just to stick on there, maybe round it off a bit….threads are the same…
> 
> - bandit571


Thanks bandit and mosquito for the input. I like the idea of a low profile knob like some of the no. 110's. I've actually grown to like the silhouette of my no. 45 without a tall knob, it's sleeker like an 044. That being said, I wanted to ask because although I haven't missed the knob while ploughing drawer/box bottoms, I didn't feel confident I wouldn't be wishing for a larger knob if I start using it for rabbets or dados for some odd reason.


----------



## Mosquito

Knowing everyone is different, I won't guarantee that you're not, but I'm struggling to think of a scenario where I actually use the knob on the #45 to grab on to directly when in use. It's almost always just the web of my thumb, as my fingers push against the fence into the work piece, and my thumb typically against the fence rod.

Bandit might be on to something with the low profile knob from a 110… I could see that as being more comfortable in the way I use a #45


----------



## DLK

Ah ha had to look it up but you mean a knob from a 110 block plane … good to know, they are easy enough to find and I have a 45 (of that type) that could use a better knob. I thought there was a 110 plane. On B&G it is written about the 110 knob: The front knob is often replaced on the earliest models, since it is friction fit inside a raised boss in the bottom casting. Many guys solved the problem of the knob falling out by drilling a hole through the main casting and then securing the knob with a screw. You could do the same on the 45.


----------



## HokieKen

I turned my own knob for my 45…









I had the original, I just liked this shape better and wanted it to match the tote that I made.


----------



## DLK

How did you do the threads?


----------



## HokieKen

I just used the male thread on the stem to cut the threads into the knob. I drilled a hole about 1/2 way between the major and minor diameters and twisted it right on.


----------



## woodcox

If a knob from a 220 block plane is the same as 110, the screw chuck that comes with the Nova chucks have the same thread pitch. Maybe helpful if you have one?


----------



## DLK

> I just used the male thread on the stem to cut the threads into the knob. I drilled a hole about 1/2 way between the major and minor diameters and twisted it right on.
> 
> - HokieKen


I had wondered if that would work.

I think the threading is courser than the 220.


----------



## HokieKen

My plan originally was to use the threads mostly to size the hole then I was going to epoxy the knob on Don. But, once I twisted it on, it was on there so firmly I just left it. I imagine how effective my method is has a lot to do with the wood used. But, epoxy should work in any case. The coarse threads on the stem will give it plenty of surface area and tooth.


----------



## DLK

I bet if you first soaked the inside of the knob with oil, say BLO and sharpened the lead thread. You could more easily cut the knob threads. I do think I recall your plan was to epoxy.


----------



## livewire516

Thanks everybody for the input regarding the fence knob.

I don't yet have a rabbet plane-how well can these really perform the task? (Since I'm currently saving my nickels for both a router plane and jointer plane, I figure buying a 3/4" cutter or larger may hold me over in the rabbet dept.).

I know I'm on the № 45 thread, but I'm debating if I'm better served spending a little more towards rehabbing an old skew rabbet and using a batten as a fence vs. another cutter for the № 45.

I'd love to hear folks' thoughts


----------



## DLK

If its cross grain a skew rabbet will work a little better in my opinion. But two saw kerfs, a chisel and a router plane will work the best, again IMHO. If it is however a long rabbit with the grain, then yeah you want a plow plane or the number 45. My metal plane choice for this is the number 50. But if you got a 45, then use it. On the other hand see Paul Sellers poor mans router plane and his other poor man solutions.


----------



## rad457

Curious as to what is the best solution to a missing retaining pin for the depth adjuster, I have a piece of drill bit in there now and have ordered some more old parts 45's from E bay, LOL. Can defiantly see some advantages to have a few 45's to chose from


----------



## bandit571

Cross grain rebate…









I usually use a #78….


----------



## rad457

Finally got back into the shop, started my storage box, figured some pine would be period correct








First cuts, think they are a little thick, new learning curve to learn with D.T. boxes?


----------



## Mosquito

what, no chestnut? :-D

You'd be surprised how heavy of a cut you can take with a #45 once it's started. As long as it doesn't tear out right away and make the corners all ragged, you're golden. Most grooves will be filled with something, so the bottom finish isn't that important lol


----------



## bandit571

Maybe a bit overkill?









Had to set the depth of cut to as fine as I could. the longer sides, as well…









Maybe a Recipe Box?


----------



## rad457

*what, no chestnut? :-D*
Don't think that I've ever seen a chunk of chestnut in these parts, what does it look like? 
What is the usual thing for the holes in the Dove tails, plugs?


----------



## Mosquito

If I'm doing a groove where I'm using through dovetails, and it's a little too late for it now with yours, I'll cut the plug into what is normally the waste of the pin board, and then cut off the little wedge left on the tail:

*Pin Board:*



















*Tail Board:*



















Otherwise, if you've already gone beyond that, then just square/rectangular plugs


----------



## Mosquito

Even have a sample of it in pine from one of my youtube videos that I had forgotten lol


----------



## rad457

Yup, little late for mine I'll try it for the next one.


----------



## dbray45

Mos - nice way of dealing with the groove. As a rule, I cut the tails first. Doing this, I don't cut the grove all the way so I don't have the hole.

Every now and then - in drawers, I will have a hole but they are at the back or behind the drawer front


----------



## Mosquito

I always cut tails first, except when I do full blind dovetails.

I suppose a stopped groove is probably the "easiest" way to hide the hole isn't it lol Didn't even think of that myself, but that's a little trickier with a #45 (but not impossible, I've done it before, but requires other operations before/after the #45)


----------



## Mosquito

I want to try a little group think exercise… 
For those of you who own a combination plane (I'm thinking specifically #45, but don't want to limit discussion to just that), what are some features you would include in a storage box for it? (whether functional or design)

I'm probably going to be building out a box for #45 storage, as currently my user just sits on a shelf with its boxes of irons next to it. I'll likely be creating a video of it as well. I have some ideas for it, but thought it could be fun to get outside ideas.

I'm not looking to just recreate an existing vintage #45 box, I have enough of those lol

I have this one that I picked up a few years ago on eBay that I like, but it feels too large for what I'm hoping to accomplish.


----------



## HokieKen

I've pondered this to some degree Mos and I think careful layout is key to prevent the box getting too big. I think I'm leaning to a box that opens like a book with maybe the plane stored in the bottom and all the cutters and accessories in the top with some kind of "keepers" to hold them in place when it's closed.

Along these lines but much more compact:


----------



## Mosquito

I've looked at that one a few times Kenny, and some other ones similar. I'm liking the book idea… might have to explore that some

I also have this one that I made a while ago too. Thinking a little nicer than this lol 









It's been more my 'long term storage' box, since it requires the plane to be broken down. 
I think I'd prefer to at least be able to have the short rods still on the plane when it's stored


----------



## HokieKen

I think I would make the box taller and leave the plane assembled. If I had to tear it down and put it back together every time, I just wouldn't use the box.

Another option I would consider is something like the desktop organizer Bandit made modified to have the plane in the top and accessories in the drawer below.


----------



## Mosquito

That was actually my main idea Kenny lol


----------



## HokieKen

Great minds ;-p

When I first saw Bandit's blog on the build and looked at the plans on Paul Sellers site, I thought of how I could use several of them in the shop. The 45 was one of the first thoughts I had too. I think I'm going to make one first with a couple of drawers and a shallower top section to hold carving tools and related accessories. If I like that one, maybe I'll do one for the 45.


----------



## DLK

> I want to try a little group think exercise…
> For those of you who own a combination plane (I m thinking specifically #45, but don t want to limit discussion to just that), what are some features you would include in a storage box for it? (whether functional or design)
> 
> I m probably going to be building out a box for #45 storage, as currently my user just sits on a shelf with its boxes of irons next to it. I ll likely be creating a video of it as well. I have some ideas for it, but thought it could be fun to get outside ideas.
> 
> I m not looking to just recreate an existing vintage #45 box, I have enough of those lol
> 
> I have this one that I picked up a few years ago on eBay that I like, but it feels too large for what I m hoping to accomplish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquitos


I would like the plane to ready to go in some sort of standard configuration and not have to reassemble it all the time. So with at least the short rods , the sliding sole and fence all in place. It should easy to lift out and in a position where it is easy to install a new blade. It should have lid and be labeled.


----------



## Mosquito

> Great minds ;-p
> 
> When I first saw Bandit s blog on the build and looked at the plans on Paul Sellers site, I thought of how I could use several of them in the shop. The 45 was one of the first thoughts I had too. I think I m going to make one first with a couple of drawers and a shallower top section to hold carving tools and related accessories. If I like that one, maybe I ll do one for the 45.
> 
> - HokieKen


I'm actually a paying subscriber, so I even have the videos 



> I would like the plane to ready to go in some sort of standard configuration and not have to reassemble it all the time. So with at least the short rods , the sliding sole and fence all in place. It should easy to lift out and in a position where it is easy to install a new blade. It should have lid and be labeled.
> 
> - Combo Prof


 I would agree, which is why my other box doesn't get used anymore. It used to fit the plane assembled, until I added the H&R bases


----------



## HokieKen

I'm a non-paying subscriber and I have the videos too Mos'. That's one of the free projects ;-)


----------



## RWE

I had been wanting to do a dovetailed box. I just did about a dozen mitered Shaker pencil boxes for Christmas presents to some kids. What I learned is that if you do multiples of a build, you get better at it. Mike Pekovich mentioned the same thing in his "How and Why of Woodworking". So when Seller's project came up, I decided to do several of those. Get the dovetail thing improved. Now you guys have inspired me to think about a doing a 45 box as well.

Milling some wood now. I have Magnolia, Quartersawn Cherry and may try Quartersawn Oak as well. I had one Mahogany board that I have already milled the parts for a box from. Going to do a "shop" box in pine first to get in some practice. I have done Sellers' simple pine box that he does in the "The 3 Joints" series and somewhere in the process since then, I have lost my dovetail mojo. I am going to learn to cut dovetails (well) or die trying. Death may come first. I made Christian Becksvordt's Shaker bed side table and did a decent job on those dovetails, but I really like Sellers technique and will use it going forward. Previously I used a Japanese saw and a "Mark Barron" home made magnetic dovetail guide. That is cheating! Gonna do it correctly.


----------



## Mosquito

lol I know Kenny, that's why I said it in irony, but that's hard to convey over the internet via text :-D

RWE that sounds like some nice wood. There's something I quite like about Magnolia, it's like a slightly more intense poplar. I wouldn't worry too much about how you get the dovetails, as long as you're happy with them and the process. When I have a lot to do, I won't lie, I often use the bandsaw to cut the tails lol


----------



## RWE

I have a Tree Surgeon friend that supplies me with wood. The Magnolia is nice. I did my first saw handle with it. This Magnolia batch has air dried since 2017, and it has more color or streaks than my first batch.

Any shop time is good time. Cutting dovetails is fun. I will get better hopefully. I hope this undertaking is the one that puts me over the top. Like most woodworkers, I have never made anything that I felt was really well done. All I see are the flaws. I did knock out a few well done Shaker pencil boxes and working small is hard. So doing multiples is my current idea for improving. Multiples back to back.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm..









That be a 12" ruler, for scale.

Been using my 45 a bit..









3 grooves inside, and this one outside..









To make a dust seal lid…









to house the router plane…


----------



## rad457

Basic box built, trying to figure out how to place things inside, but waiting on another set of cutters that I could not resist, so question now is will I get more accessorises and where will they go? 
Making a Lee Valley run tomorrow for some latches and what ever other goodies follow me home


----------



## Mosquito

that's where I always struggle too, how much future do I prepare for now lol

Won't lie Bandit, I'd be a little nervous about having my router irons upside down like that. The box I have for my Preston style router plane has 2 battens on the bottom that the router sits on. This lets me leave the iron in the plane extended (to a certain degree), and room to put both the other two irons on the outsides of the battens, under the plane. Not as worried about gashing myself lol


----------



## bandit571

What mine is patterned after…









OEM box


----------



## DavePolaschek

I'm no expert, but the Veritas box for their combo plane is good-ish. When I modify it, I'll change it so I can slide the drawer holding the plane out without having to take crap off the top of the box. That's my biggest complaint about their box, but it holds everything pretty well. It just always takes me an hour to get it unburied so I can get the plane out of the box.


----------



## bandit571

I'd post a picture of the box I have for the Stanley 45…but, it is the same as the OEM box from Roxton Pond, QUE, CAN. Type 20, SW, ....yes I have to tear it down, to pack it all in the box….no biggie to me….nor does it take very long to get the parts out I need, and assemble the plane….5-10 minutes…exhausting, I know…LOL….

Battens are glued in place to hold the 71-1/2 off the floor of the box…









That shallow hole in the lid, is because the threaded rod is a hair too tall….hole also keeps the plane from rattling around in there..when I close the lid…


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I would like the plane to ready to go in some sort of standard configuration and not have to reassemble it all the time. So with at least the short rods , the sliding sole and fence all in place. It should easy to lift out and in a position where it is easy to install a new blade. It should have lid and be labeled.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> I would agree, which is why my other box doesn t get used anymore. It used to fit the plane assembled, until I added the H&R bases
> 
> - Mosquito


Just spit-balling some more options here… The box for the Veritas Combination Plane has some interesting features, the most notable being able to put the plane away assembled and the second being that the box is designed so that it can be carried without the top flipping open. See here.

Regarding the space for the H&R bases, why not just make an additional box for them?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Bandit, I've never seen a pic or reference to the No. 71 Router coming in a wooden box. Where'd that picture come from that says it's "OEM"? Fascinating stuff.


----------



## bandit571

Was sold on "Worth Point" a while back….


----------



## Mosquito

One of the OEM boxes (this one was from my type 21, but I also have the same box for I think it's Type 15?) can also have the plane assembled with short rods, and has room for the irons, and is fairly compact:










I don't have a good picture of the inside at the moment (at least not handy)

I had also seen this guy's (found it elsewhere first, but also saw it here). Decent OEM-like place to start.

Not a bad option to have a separate box for the H&R bases, as they get rather heavy. One idea I was thinking of was a stacking box, where I could put the #45 box on top of the H&R box, whether it's a drawer or a box.

I had forgotten about the Veritas box, but it did seem to work pretty well wheN I got to see Dave's. Could just copy one of those, but I already know it won't fit a #45 with out modification lol










I hadn't seen a wooden box for a #71 either. Come to think of it, I guess I just hadn't seen a box for a #71 in general, except the much newer ones lol


----------



## DLK

> I would agree, which is why my other box doesn t get used anymore. It used to fit the plane assembled, until I added the H&R bases
> 
> - Mosquito


 "[You're] going to need a bigger [box],"-Martin Brody.


----------



## Lazyman

Here's my 71 OEM Box 










At least it's the one it was in when I bought it at an estate sale couple of years ago. Unfortunately , the lid was missing. Maybe this discussion will finally inspired me to make one.


----------



## bandit571

While searching for a box pattern to copy….also saw one or two with sliding lids, like the ones used for the No. 45 and No. 55 planes…


----------



## Mosquito

I was going to let it go, because I didn't really want to get into it, but if it keeps coming up, I don't want it to get conveyed as unopposed fact….

Just because it's on the internet doesn't mean it's historic fact. Not saying it's not possible, but I have seen no evidence to convince me that what Bandit posted would have been an original OEM box. The type shown doesn't line up with the timeframe Stanley was making wooden boxes for other planes. It's the same type that Nathan posted, in the cardboard box above.

All the sliding lid ones I've seen appear to me to likely be user made. Pretty much every one I have seen were made from plywood. I would doubt Stanley would have made a wooden box for their #71 out of plywood when the #45/55 got chestnut.

I'd be glad to be wrong, if anyone has a reputable source that would suggest otherwise, I just haven't seen any evidence of such


----------



## bandit571

Sigh….
Seems Jim Bode has sold a few wooden cases…..mostly sliding lid ones…but..what do I know…I'm just a rust hunter..
At least the one I built works…..


----------



## Mosquito

Did Jim Bode say they were original boxes? (I know the answer, it's no). He specifically mentions "Original Box" when it's the original box. None of the wooden ones I've seen say "Original Box" (I just looked through all of them), and if he had reason to believe it was the original box, he would say so. He's in the business of selling tools to collectors. If he can say it's in the original box he does, because it increases what he can get for it.

To be clear, I'm not saying it doesn't work, or that I don't like it. I'm just saying I have my doubts the original posted was OEM. That is all.

(And this is why I was originally going to let it go)


----------



## HokieKen

I'm with Mos'. I did a little googling and didn't see anywhere that there was a stanley-made wooden box for the router planes.

The pic you posted looked legit to me too Bandit so I don't blame ya for thinking it was ;-)

Sargent did make an OEM box for their 1080 Combination Plane though Mos'. But I imagine you not only knew that but have one (or 5). It's a suitcase style too but falls well short in the "leave the plane assembled" department. I don't really like the tool roll for the cutters either. The wood boxes are much more compact.


----------



## Mosquito

I don't actually have a 1080 in a wooden box. I do have a Fulton, made by Sargent, but not an original box for it 

I have expanded out in to adding other combination planes along with the #45's. Got my hands on a Mayo patent at a recent MWTCA event, but that was certainly not in my budget lol

I have a few planes that have tool rolls, and I dislike them as well. Except when it comes to storage compactness. Though I will say, one of them was well oiled by a previous owner, and had some of the best condition irons I've had on a plane that was over 100 years old. But, I've also seen them be some of the worst irons I've had, so it all comes down to care


----------



## HokieKen

Well. I have to admit I'm a little disappointed in ya Mos ;-p


----------



## rad457

Semi related question, keep the original cutter box's or make storage in the box?


----------



## Mosquito

I am torn on that… easiest would be keep the original boxes, but may not be most compact… Up to now, I have kept them all in the original boxes. One user-made box I got (that looks like a mini English tool chest), they nailed the original boxes into the one they made


----------



## HokieKen

I like the original box and I only have the one set of cutters. So I'll leave them in it I think.


----------



## RWE

Mos:

I picked up this 45 back in November and have been snowed with holiday activity and work since. I wanted to post to ask if this looked like a "full" 45 and parts. I got only one box of cutters and I think the second box was optional.

With all of these posts about boxes for Routers and 45's, is this an original box from Stanley and what does it tell you about the time frame for shipping if so. Any comment or info would be appreciated. I have seen a few of these boxes now on Ebay in the last couple of months, so I think it is an OEM box. What do you think.

I bought it at an antique store for around $140. That seemed a very good price to me for the box and the "completeness". Even had the screwdriver.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"Ditto" to what Mos said. I have a router in original box, and it's the pasteboard that we've seen on other planes with few (multiplane) exceptions. Like this one "with Original Box," Sweetheart Era, from Bode's site.










I'm glad you have one that works for you, bandit. Really. It's just that I've never seen a wooden box made by Stanley for that plane. Would have been back in the 'chestnut' era, when they were making all the other finger jointed boxes with sliding lids. But it doesn't exist.


----------



## Mosquito

Replacement lid, but an original box to a #45. I think it has a replacement fence, as the micro adjuster fence didn't come with planes that had a floral casting. Do you have a picture of the box label, and the trademark stamp on the skate of the #45? That would narrow down the date of the plane for sure, and would give a good idea on the box (if there's enough of the label left, there were a few variations of the box labels).

Just based on what I can see of the #45 (not including the fence) it looks like type 7 or 8, 1895-1908.

Absolutely solid user for sure, especially with all the parts


----------



## RWE

Mos:
I will go out and check the trademark. The box label is all but gone, you can see a faint outline of where it was on the picture above. I will focus a shot on that and get one of the trademark.

I was confused when I saw the micro adjuster since I thought that would be later in time to the wooden box.

Bummed that it is not original, but love the micro adjuster.


----------



## Mosquito

I certainly wouldn't worry about it, the micro adjust fence is definitely worth it lol


----------



## bandit571




----------



## donwilwol

Just making sure you guys with Fales seen this https://www.timetestedtools.net/fales-patent-variable-bench-plane-1885/

and there is one for the Stanley 45 and Sargent 1080 in the "read it here" section
https://www.timetestedtools.net/read-it-here/

Download the pdf from there as well.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Don, I've got a couple of copies of each of those, but always handy to have them shareable somewhere


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> Bummed that it is not original, but love the micro adjuster.
> 
> - RWE


I'll swap you a period correct fence for yours with the micro adjuster if you're really bummed about it ;-)


----------



## RWE

Hokie: I am not a collector, but: I have a period correct model with the correct fence. I determined that I have two floral models, one has the "optional and enhanced fence". LOL. I wanted two so that I could keep then set up for various jobs, particularly tongue and groove. Then this latest one showed up so now I have three. I will Ebay one. I have at this point two complete sets of the basic irons and a few extras. I bought the first two with partial sets of irons so that gave me one pretty complete set, then this third one came with a full set.



















Mos: Can tell much about the box label, but here it is. Do you know the time period for when they shipped in the wooden boxes? 









My authentic micro-adjust model is a SW trademark


----------



## HokieKen

I accidentally posted this in the HPOYD thread:



> I wonder where HO Studley would have tucked away his 45 and all its doodads?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## donwilwol

I've got 2 boxed 1080s. One is a home made box that includes a #79 in it. 









the second is a OEM box


----------



## DLK

> I accidentally posted this in the HPOYD thread:
> I wonder where HO Studley would have tucked away his 45 and all its doodads
> 
> - HokieKen


And I accidentally responded. Look around for a tool list and did find a partial list of the HO Studley tools. No mention of a 45 or any sort of rebate plane. Many of his tools were custom made. He worked on pianos and Organs and maybe didn't have need for such planes. But who knows exactly what he did.


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, my friend fabricated the Fales rods for me.









I was under the impression it could be used as a moving filister but the wooden fence will not fit under the body.









Am I missing something or is this fence not the correct one?


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm..









Stowaways ?









May need to add a label of some kind?


----------



## DLK

Well you certainly could make a fence that would fit under the body.


----------



## DLK

.


----------



## Mosquito

Kevin, for moving fillister, there was actually a different fence attachment. I don't have one, so I am unsure of its exact attachment to the plane. It almost looks like it takes the place of one of the forms/bases sets, but the rounds where the screws would normally go aren't illustrated as deep/round as what I would expect if that were the case. It doesn't match the holes the forms have


----------



## Mosquito

RWE, what I had posted previously is about as accurate as I can get with what I know about it. For some reason in the other pictures the box label looked like there might still be some color to it, but I see now that was not the case lol The wooden boxes like that coincide with both types 7 and 8, so it's period correct for the #45 you showed (exception being the fence)


----------



## rad457

Reason I was waiting for cutters to show,,, yes they will fit in the box, #55 cutters but price was to good to pass up. Next decision to stain or just BLO, Chrome or Brass hardware, and now I feel guilty for making boxes for the 45 and the Veritas router planes but the #71 still in a cardboard box


----------



## Mosquito

Kevin, was originally going to just send this through a PM, but figured I might as well just post it here. Went looking through one of my plow/combination plane books last night ("The American Cabinetmaker's Plow Plane - Its Design and Improvement 1700-1900" by John A. Moody, for reference). 
I was able to find another patent drawing for the Fales patent plane, with some more details on that fence I posted previously. Still not quite 100% sure this works out though:"By reversing the Fence, a Front Fillester can be made"












> Fig. 5, a front end view of the instrument having its fence reversed for making a front fillester


----------



## Mosquito

Reading further int he patent revealed this:



> Fig. 5, shows the fence reversed and provided with an overhanging ledge, l [lowercase L], for forming a front fillister. Here the ledge, being in line with the lower edge of the stock-flange a, serves for form-plates, which, for this purpose therefore, are dispensed with. The ledge l [lowercase L] is cut away in the middle, so not as to be in the way of the cutter, and not to interfere with the discharge of the shavings. The fence being adjustable laterally allows the grooves to be cut at any desired distance from the front edge of the material, and by employing two stocks - one arranged for grooving and the other for tonguing - no changing from one to the other kind of work is necessary for tonguing and grooving. The vertical flange of each bracket is of such height that when placed in contact with the overhanging ledge k of the main stock the grooves will be cut to the regular or greatest depth required, the distance from the lower surface of the bracket to the lower edge of the stock-flange determining the depth of cut, since the brackets serve as gages to limit the depth of cut. When a shallower cut is desired, the brackets may be adjusted farther down on the stock-flange, both brackets alike, thus obviously effecting the purpose.


So… it sounds like you don't use a form plate when using that fence, so perhaps it would be the same arrangement with the fence that you and I have as well, just perhaps not as "cleanly", as you'd be required to keep the plane perpendicular yourself. Maybe making our own fence wood can accomplish the same with the adjustable fences we've got


----------



## Mosquito

Alternative, if you have smaller form-plates:
Use the widest one that will fit the rabbet you're cutting, and then spin the wooden fence and move it beyond the metal fence to cover the iron. (I have a small form and mid-sized iron out of laziness)




























And when I say "spinthe wooden fence", I mean loosen the two screws that hold it on, then spin it 180 degrees, and reattach it with the same screws. You wood fence might be different than mine, but where the screws are on mine won't allow it to go past the metal fence in one orientation, but will in the other.


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, thank you for all the research. My head has become addled with age so I need to go over this a dozen or so times before it sinks in(or sinks out of sight!).

I'm contemplating just making a new fence with a raised edge to allow it to slide under the larger plates.


----------



## Mosquito

How far off is it? What about just a shim that can sit between the metal and wood when you tighten the screws back down?


----------



## Mosquito

Also, as an aside, my wife came home from work yesterday and found me sitting on the couch researching this stuff, and goes. "Are you reading…. patents? ... Why?"

lol she and I are definitely different in our reading material


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, I just got given that treatment a few weeks ago researching patents for the Dorn mitre box.

I will start with shimming the fence as proof of concept.


----------



## KentInOttawa

I've never actually seen a 45 without the scales on the handle, not even in this thread. When I came across this photo on FB I immediately thought some others might find it interesting.


----------



## BenDupre

Question: where do you find combination plane pictures on FB?


----------



## Mosquito

haha Kent, I've seen a bunch on eBay, and I think DonW had a restoration where he had new scales. Kenny also replaced scales on his, so if he didn't post pics, shame on him :-D


----------



## donwilwol

No pictures without the handle though

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/03/24/a-stanley-45-resurrected/


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Question: where do you find combination plane pictures on FB?
> 
> - BenDupre


In this case, it was someone showing off some tools he had in an old tool chest. The group was User-Built and Vintage Tool Chests.



> haha Kent, I ve seen a bunch on eBay, and I think DonW had a restoration where he had new scales. Kenny also replaced scales on his, so if he didn t post pics, shame on him :-D
> 
> - Mosquito


I filter my eBay searches to include just Canada because I'm tired of losing fights w/ stuff being confiscated by the international shipping program, so I see a lot fewer 45s than you would. As a result, I haven't seen any without the scales before.


----------



## Mosquito

That's the one I was thinking of Don

Makes sense Kent, I've bought a few #45's out of Canada in the past, but not in the past couple of years. I've heard of a lot if issues with the rosewood though


----------



## HokieKen

Of course I posted pics Mos! I wrote a whole blog series as a matter of fact ;-) Not gonna try to link it on my phone, but take a look at my blogs Kent and there's a series on my 45. I think the second or third entry probably has the tote and knob replacement.


----------



## Mosquito

haha, I know Kenny, I have the old scales and just came across them yesterday in search of something else lol Well, I guess they weren't scales until after you were done with them :-D









https://www.lumberjocks.com/HokieKen/blog/129283


----------



## HokieKen

Nope. It started out as a tote/hotdog bun. But I fixed that!


----------



## HokieKen

> Look at north brothers #10 or #15 ratcheting screwdrivers. Page 13 and 14 in this document.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - WayneC





> Ha, Wayne, one is a North Brothers, Yankee No. 15 (right). Other is a "Yankee" No. 2H (left)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito


So back on February first of last year, we were discussing screwdrivers for the 45 plane. And Wayne and Mos' turned me on to the Yankee #15. Well, to give you an idea of how cheap I am, I've been actively watching Ebay for one that I was willing to pay the price for. This morning I FINALLY had a best offer accepted and have not one but TWO on the way  I had a firm limit of $5 for one of these drivers. The pair was listed for $16 so I offered $10 and got them.

I hope these drivers are as good as Wayne and Mos' said or you guys owe me $10! ;-p


----------



## Mosquito

If you don't like them, I'll buy them for $10 lol

And you actually dug back far enough to find that convo? I'm slightly impressed :-D


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I remembered that exchange well because like I said, I had been searching for one of those drivers ever since. I also remembered that Wayne had linked a catalog of the Yankee drivers that I thought I had saved but couldn't find. So I was looking back to find that link anyway ;-)


----------



## Just_Iain

Over a week ago I snagged a Record #405 Multiplane on eBay up here in Canada for $75 (Canadian) or $56 (US). Pictures to follow as I only picked it up on Sunday and was able to hide from the wife. Missing both slitters but came with one blade; the equivalent to the Stanley #45 "Sash Cutter with Stop" blade. Plating is in excellent shape vs the Stanley 45s I need to refurbish.


----------



## bandit571

Screwdriver, sitting on my mousepad, with a fork for scale..









Details?









Barn sale find….


----------



## HokieKen

Anybody else ever wonder if there's a tool that Bandit doesn't own? ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

> Over a week ago I snagged a Record #405 Multiplane on eBay up here in Canada for $75 (Canadian) or $56 (US). Pictures to follow as I only picked it up on Sunday and was able to hide from the wife. Missing both slitters but came with one blade; the equivalent to the Stanley #45 "Sash Cutter with Stop" blade. Plating is in excellent shape vs the Stanley 45s I need to refurbish.
> 
> - Just_Iain


Awesome Ian, looking forward to it


----------



## HokieKen

I don't know about y'all but I'd love to see how this "useful tool" "works"...


----------



## Lazyman

Use the Force.


----------



## Just_Iain

Photos at last.



> Over a week ago I snagged a Record #405 Multiplane on eBay up here in Canada for $75 (Canadian) or $56 (US). Pictures to follow as I only picked it up on Sunday and was able to hide from the wife. Missing both slitters but came with one blade; the equivalent to the Stanley #45 "Sash Cutter with Stop" blade. Plating is in excellent shape vs the Stanley 45s I need to refurbish.
> 
> - Just_Iain


----------



## Just_Iain

Now for the 45's


















































































So three 45's. Two of which are the older floral pattern. If someone can tell me the model, it would help. One newer model, again model unknown.

Many Thanks,
Iain


----------



## Just_Iain

Now for a mystery body. Bought several years ago but it's not a 45 that I've ever seen. Any help would be greatly appreciated.



















Iain


----------



## BlasterStumps

Iain, that last one looks like possibly a 46. Is the bed for the cutter at a 90 to the body or is it slanted?


----------



## Just_Iain

> Iain, that last one looks like possibly a 46. Is the bed for the cutter at a 90 to the body or is it slanted?
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Blaster,

Of course everything is put away (tool boxes in Pantry under the stairs) and the wife is on the way home. I'll dig it out one night this week if I can.

Iain


----------



## rad457

Head hung in shame, 45 box finally done and broke down and ordered a #19 - 7/8" cutter, only $20.00 someone made a cove cutter from the original one.
Foam will allow addition of more cutters if they suddenly appear?


----------



## Mosquito

Ian, First one is type 8, second one is type 12, 3rd one is type 8 again.

The next plane is indeed a #46. You can tell because the thumbscrew for tightening the iron in place is angled forward compared to a #45.

Sweet looking box Andre, are those dovetails?


----------



## rad457

Yup, same box that the 45 cut the groves in oh so long ago


----------



## HokieKen

Anybody ever took one of those Yankee #15 screwdrivers or a similar one apart? The two I bought on ebay last week arrived and one just needs a little shank-straightening and the tip ground but the other is completely locked up in the "lefty-loosey" position and needs the wood knob replaced. There is a small set screw that I assumed retained the knob but removing the screw didn't allow me to pull the knob out. Just wondering if anyone has any advice? I'd rather not tear the thing up trying to fix it but it's pretty worthless in its current state…


----------



## DLK

Have you tried kroil, PBblaster, WD40 etc-sprayed into every possible opening-- then letting it sit for a while.

I found this instructable. I think it will answer your questions.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Don. I have had the push drivers apart but I'm not positive how the internals are on this one since the shaft can free-spin in addition to the ratcheting mechanics. I do intend to soak it in some penetrating oil and see if that frees stuff up. I'd still like to get it apart though so I can replace the wood knob and see how it works


----------



## Mosquito

can't say that I've ever had one apart, but I would certainly be interested in the process


----------



## HokieKen

> can t say that I ve ever had one apart, but I would certainly be interested in the process
> 
> - Mosquito


Awesome! Shoot some video or take lots of pics when you do it! ;-p


----------



## Mosquito

Did some exploratory prodding, and I think I will Kenny, hopefully have a video out in the next couple days


----------



## HokieKen

LOL, I was just ribbing you Mos' but I'll definitely watch it if you post it!

I let mine bathe in Kroil overnight and the ratchet mechanism still won't budge. So I'm gonna have to get inside there one way or another. I think I'm going to start carving away the wood knob and just see what's underneath…


----------



## DLK

My bad . It is of course not a push drive. Doh. Sorry. I'll give it more thought.

The ratchet screwdriver I have and cherish is a MF 59. It has in the wood handle a pin driven in and peened. There would be no way to remove it with out destroying the handle. So I think you need to find how the wood handle is locked onto the mechanism, which may mean its destruction.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Don. I'm not worried about destroying the wood handle because it's missing a chunk and I want to replace it anyway. The main thing confusing me about the #15 is that I can't find a way that the wood is attached. There's no pin or thread that I have been able to find. I'm wondering if it's simply epoxied on. But, the driver is pretty much worthless in its current state so the worst I can do by trying is make it more worthless and learn how these things are made for next time 

I'm eyeballing a MF #55 on Ebay that's the same style as the Yankee #15. I'm really liking the feel of these drivers and how they work with the knurled thumbwheel  Do you know of a site with details on the Millers Falls screwdrivers that aren't the push drivers? Oldtoolheaven has the spiral drivers but nothing on the "regular" ones.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

All this screwdriver talk is in wrong thread maybe?
Screw Driver of your Dreams

Cheers!


----------



## Mosquito

> LOL, I was just ribbing you Mos but I ll definitely watch it if you post it!
> 
> I let mine bathe in Kroil overnight and the ratchet mechanism still won t budge. So I m gonna have to get inside there one way or another. I think I m going to start carving away the wood knob and just see what s underneath…
> 
> - HokieKen


What's inside the wooden knob is the only part I didn't get to lol I'm not sure if it's just pressed in, or if it's glued in, but I didn't want to risk having to re-make the wooden part on mine to find out, since it's fine on the one I have.

Have all the video from last night, and will try to edit it together tonight. The wood is attached to a metal piece that can be removed from the screwdriver once inside, but i think it's either glued or pressed in to a slightly undersized recess or something. I didn't see anything holding it on mechanically either


----------



## HokieKen

Awesome Mos'! Thanks for tearing into it man. Looking forward to seeing the video )


----------



## HokieKen

> All this screwdriver talk is in wrong thread maybe?
> Screw Driver of your Dreams
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


Nope. This all started because I was looking for a screwdriver to dedicate to my 45 plane ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

> All this screwdriver talk is in wrong thread maybe?
> Screw Driver of your Dreams
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


haha, thanks for the reminder, though the context Kenny mentioned was around use with a #45, I'll have to remember to post the video over there


----------



## bandit571

I have 2 screwdrivers dedicated to the #45….a "chef's hat" tiny one for the spurs, by Goodell Pratt….and a Millers Falls No. 6 screwdriver…


----------



## HokieKen

I'm hoping I can get by with just one to live with the plane Bandit. If not, I have a small perfect handle waiting in the rehab pile that will get drafted for the larger screws.

And… now I own a MF #55 too…


----------



## Lazyman

Dang it Kenny. Now I've got to have a #15 too.


----------



## Lazyman

Kenny, Look at page 18 of the North Brothers catalog you sent a link to. It is not a ratcheting screwdriver but it shows a diagram for one of their regular screwdrivers that has a bolster pressed into the handle. Maybe they took a similar approach with the 15?

There are other cool vintage tools in that catalog too.


----------



## HokieKen

It's possible Nathan but the shaft can't extend into the handle like that because it rotates independent of the handle. So I'm not sure there would be an advantage to that type of construction but I don't know. One way to find out ;-)

There are some cool tools in that catalog. For some reason I really like the look of the #60 driver in there but they seem to be pretty rare and bring more money than I'd ever spend for one.


----------



## DLK

> Do you know of a site with details on the Millers Falls screwdrivers that aren t the push drivers? Oldtoolheaven has the spiral drivers but nothing on the "regular" ones.
> 
> - HokieKen


No and I have looked.


----------



## crmitchell

Oh Boy !!! Picked up a 45 recently and have already learned a couple of things by myself:

1. It ain't as easy as it looks to get it set up
2. The old timers were tough critters.

I'll be hitting this topic a lot, as my first tries were more than a little frustrating.

CM


----------



## bandit571

One was it use this evening…









Had a few grooves to plough..









in 5/16" thick Ash…


----------



## Mosquito

Welcome to the loony bin Carey :-D

Kenny:









  




​


----------



## bandit571

Nice video….except mine seems to be a slightly different model/ type.

Mine has a split pin to hold the red handle in place….knurled fitting is brass. Feels like the prawls aren't catching all the time…shaft can be simply pulled right out.

But, a very nice video.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Bandit

If it's a red handle, I'd be surprised if it wasn't a millers falls lol

Maybe you could disassemble, and see if the pawls are rounded off on the bottom, maybe flip them over if the design allows?


----------



## bandit571

Will give it a try, maybe this weekend. kind of busy at the moment.









A chest with 2 drawers….might take a day, or 2..


----------



## rad457

> Welcome to the loony bin Carey :-D
> 
> Kenny:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito


No lube, drop of machine oil?


----------



## HokieKen

Nice Mos! I scanned through to the good parts. I'll watch the whole thing later when I can turn some volume on  I think mine must be an older or newer version because the sleeve looks to be nickel-plated brass (minus about 90% of the nickel plating. The ratchet selector is so locked up, I'm honestly not sure if I'll even be able to get the sleeve off of there :-( I'll give it a go though. I'll keep soaking it in Kroil for a couple more days and see if that helps. I'm really not sure what could be going on that's locked the selector up so tight unless it's just old grease coagulated. The shaft spins pretty freely though so maybe there's hope!

Now let me see what else I have that I haven't gotten around to repairing that I can guilt you into figuring out for me…


----------



## HokieKen

> Thanks Bandit
> 
> If it s a red handle, I d be surprised if it wasn t a millers falls lol
> 
> Maybe you could disassemble, and see if the pawls are rounded off on the bottom, maybe flip them over if the design allows?
> 
> - Mosquito


I am curious what model yours is too Bandit. The two Yankee 15s I have are like Mos in that the set screw is on the opposite side from the selector:









The one you posted the other day has the set screw in line with the selector though?









Your knob appears different too in shape. But not exactly like the Millers Falls #55 either:









Both of my Yankee models also show evidence of having green paint on the knobs at some point. It's obvious on the one on the right in the picture above but I also noticed it around the base of the knob on the other one. Anyone know of any significance of that?


----------



## Mosquito

The sleeve on mine also appears to be nickel plated brass, as there is some brass showing in worn areas, and it's non-magnetic.

On the paint, probably an owner identifier? I had a router plane that was similar green paint on both the knobs

If it's small enough, you send it, and waive me of any accidental damage, I'll give it a look  Unless I also have one. I always like taking things apart and seeing how they work and were made. That's why the first things I did with my Fales and Phillips patent planes was do a video taking them apart, putting it back together, and using it lol


----------



## DLK

Mos perhaps you should change the title of this forum to:

Stanley #45 - 7 forms of fun in 1! - And other combination/moulding planes* and ratchet screwdrivers*


----------



## Mosquito

hahahaha how about this one?

Stanley #45 - 7 forms of fun in 1! - And other combination/moulding planes and ratchet screwdrivers *and combination/moulding plane accessories*

or

Stanley #45 - 7 forms of fun in 1! - And other combination/moulding planes and ratchet screwdrivers *and combination/moulding plane paraphernalia*


----------



## Mosquito

> No lube, drop of machine oil?
> 
> - Andre


I did, just not "on camera". When I was cleaning it up, I coated it in oil, and then dabbed off the excess, but didn't add additional during assembly

(Sorry, just saw that post when I scrolled up)


----------



## HokieKen

Stanley #45 - 7 forms of fun in 1! - And other combination/moulding planes and ratchet screwdrivers and combination/moulding plane paraphernalia *and cases and display stands*


----------



## Mosquito

I wonder how long it can get before we find the limits of LJ lol


----------



## Lazyman

> Stanley #45 - 7 forms of fun in 1! - And other combination/moulding planes and ratchet screwdrivers and combination/moulding plane paraphernalia *and cases and display stands*...
> 
> - HokieKen


... and any other random crap that comes up along the way.


----------



## rad457

I feel neglected, the tiny little screw driver that came with my #45 is trying to hide in shame It does have decal?
Going to have to search the shop as I seem to remember seeing one of them ratchet screw drivers some where?


----------



## theoldfart

How about

Combination Planes

Seems just restrictive enough. 

For everything else

Yankees and their ilk!


----------



## HokieKen

I moved my screwdriver jabber over to the screwdriver thread


----------



## donwilwol

What happen to tooltrip.com?


----------



## HokieKen

> What happen to tooltrip.com?
> 
> - Don W


Looks like it's gone Don :-( According to this, it's registered until July of this year.


----------



## Mosquito

As far as I can tell, the last it was functioning was in April of last year…


----------



## Mosquito

I've got almost all of it, so it's not all lost


----------



## Lazyman

Try the Internet way back machine for archived pages ( sorry for the long link it won't work with LJ imbedded links)
https://web.archive.org/web/20190107094615/http://tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/index.htms

EDit: For some reason the link I copied doesn't work so just go search on web.archive.com for tooltrip.com


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, that's where I grabbed it all from, and how I figured out about when it died


----------



## Just_Iain

I've got a Record #043 that will be in the mail from England likely tomorrow. Pictures to follow. Also received a Record #044 yesterday (pictures of it follow as well to follow). If anyone wants an #044 box is ratty condition (bottom and just the one end with the label) and very musty, PM me and we can arrange a transfer. I'm not looking to make money, just can handle the mustiness.

Iain


----------



## bandit571

Ok…there are two Stanley #55s on Ebay at the moment….both being sold as is/parts….and CHEAP. Wondering who is selling them….


----------



## rad457

Calling the #45 box Done! Foam can be cut back just in case more irons appear Got my #19 -7/8" iron, only $23.00.!


----------



## bandit571

Apparently, someone bought that No. 55 I had been watching on fee-bay….got a notice it was no longer available…

Box looks spacious..might want to think about a handle or two….to help carry it around, once it gets filled up?


----------



## HokieKen

Andre, I see the rods are stored in the lid of your box. is there anything else up there? You could put a magnetic strip up there to hold cutters if you continue to add more in the future if it's just empty space.


----------



## rad457

> Andre, I see the rods are stored in the lid of your box. is there anything else up there? You could put a magnetic strip up there to hold cutters if you continue to add more in the future if it s just empty space.
> 
> - HokieKen


Nothing so far, lid panel is only about a 1/4" thick and made from soft pine. Intend to make some holders for the guides some day?  Actually do have one blade without a storage space now.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice work Andre, good idea with the foam


----------



## bandit571

Putting away my 45…..opened the box…









Then started to tear down the plane….cleaned shavings out..









They tend to clog up in there. Stowed one spur…









Bolt for the other spur is MIA. Normal bolt won't work, needs to be a bit bigger…JBWeld to adapt a bolt?









Was having a LOT of issues with that one bolt…was too short…hard to turn…replaced thing with a "proper" one..
For now, I have other ways of dado work…will be on the lookout for a main stock, sometime…packed everything inside the box..









Close the lid..









And put both cases back on the shelf…









Until the next Project…


----------



## Ocelot

I'm trying to get my children into woodworking. I figure the 45 is *way* too heavy for an 8-year-old.

So, I went shopping (you know where).

So, now the family.









The Record 043 crossed the Atlantic for about $30 (and another 40+ for the plane).

The English Stanley No 50, was about $43 shipping. Ouch! But total wasn't too bad and everything is there in great condition except one hex nut that should hold the adjuster on. I don't know what thread it is.

This nut …









There is a teeny-tiny bushing that goes with the adjuster so you can tighten the screw without binding the adjuster. I found it in the packing materials, but no nut and there was no nut in the auction photos either.

-Paul


----------



## Ocelot

The 043 seems to have a bronze sub-fence on it. I don't know if that is standard or user-made.

-Paul


----------



## KentInOttawa

Ocelot- I was quite surprised when I figured out that several items on my newer Record 050C were 1/4-20. Maybe?


----------



## Ocelot

It looks like maybe a no 8 screw. Putting it next to a scale, maybe 36-40 tpi. Definitely smaller than 1/4-20.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Just one of the many challenges with buying, restoring and using older tools: "What thread was that"?


----------



## Just_Iain

> Ian, First one is type 8, second one is type 12, 3rd one is type 8 again.
> 
> The next plane is indeed a #46. You can tell because the thumbscrew for tightening the iron in place is angled forward compared to a #45.
> 
> Sweet looking box Andre, are those dovetails?
> 
> - Mosquito


Mos, Many Thanks as I had missed your response! Knowledge is good. Next is shed one Type 8.

I have an utterly trashed 46 in the mail that I can combine with what I have to hopefully make one plane. Thats how I ended up with 3 #45s, 2 Record #043s, 4 Record #44 and #044s… I need to slow down a little.

Iain


----------



## Just_Iain

For those looking for blades for Record #043 and #044," https://www.workshopheaven.com" carries the Ash Iles line of blades. Search for "RECORD 043 CUTTERS" or "RECORD 044 CUTTERS".

Iain


----------



## Just_Iain

I was finally able to pull out my 2 Stanley 130A Ratching Screwdrivers.










The wooden handle model came with 2 slotted (straight) tip bits that are more delicate than the later bits sold in the 1980s.

The 1980's plastic handle model came with 1 slotted bit and I added 2 slotted in different sizes, 2 Philps bits in different sizes and the 3 Robertson (Americans call them square drive but they were developed and patented in Canada) in different sizes. I picked up the Hex adapter that LeeValley sells for the Yankee Screwdrivers.

When I was a carpenter in the 80s & 90s, the plastic yankee was that reach for tool when you had to drive a screw 12" to 15" beyond what you could reach with your hand. Also with such a long handle, you could lean against it like a breast drill and walk in screws that the electric drills of the time would ream out .










The older 130A comes in at 13.7oz










The 1980s 130A comes in at 15.1oz.


----------



## rad457

LOL! Think the screwdriver stuff has moved over to the Scredriver of your dreams Thread ?
https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/42397


----------



## HokieKen

What bevel angle do y'all typically use on your 45 cutters? The set I have have ~30 degree bevels so I've been honing them the same but I'm beginning to think that a 25 deg bevel might improve performance. Especially with cross-grain grooves. Anyone have an opinion one way or the other?

I had some grooves to plow this weekend in some Cherry for drawer bottoms. In this case the bottoms are only 1/8" so I quickly learned that the skate can't be used with a cutter that narrow. Which means no nib on that side of the blade. Well, I planed the first 1/8" deep by 1/8" wide groove and that was a nasty looking mess… It was functional but there was a pretty clean wall on the side with the nib and the other side just ripped chunks of wood out along the length. So I sat up the router table to do the rest of the grooves ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Ken, i'm confused. Your plowing grooves for drawer bottoms and the grooves are cross grained? The grain is running vertically on the drawer sides?


----------



## HokieKen

No Kev - 2 separate thoughts ;-) I was suggesting that a shallower bevel may lend itself to better cross-grain cuts. That was unrelated to the groove I plowed for the drawer bottom. That was along the grain


----------



## Mosquito

I typically do somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-35° I think. I never measure, and don't use a hone, so not certain, just whatever my muscle memory tells me to do lol

Can I ask what aspect of performance you're expecting to impact with the bevel angle? Really, the presentation angle never changes, since it's bevel down, all you have to do is have it somewhere less than 43 or 44° so it doesn't rub, no?


----------



## Mosquito

I see you mentioned better cross grain cuts. I wouldn't think so, you're still cutting at 45°, but I wouldn't mind seeing some testing of it 

Or, alternatively, get yourself a Philips patent, with built in slicing action


----------



## HokieKen

I was just thinking that a shallower bevel gives a sharper edge Mos'. But yeah, the presentation angle remains the same so maybe it wouldn't have any effect. And, it would be a less durable edge too so maybe it's an entirely bad idea…

I don't use this plane enough to really do any comparative analysis and draw any good conclusions. I can say that I have done similar testing with #4 and #5 bench planes with 25 and 30 degree bevels and did find that the shallower bevel gave a better cut but was also dulled noticeably faster than the steeper. For me, the improved cutting edge was worth the tradeoff for having to sharpen more often. Of course that was all done with the grain too so it may make no difference whatsoever in cross-grain performance.

I feel pretty confident that I'm not the first person to consider the bevel angle on these planes and that if it gave an appreciable advantage that somebody else would have stumbled onto it before me ;-) I was mostly just curious is that is a typical bevel angle since I only have the one set of cutters and have never used any others.


----------



## HokieKen

Funny about the Phillips. I'll have to look that one up. I was thinking last night that it sure would be nice if the 45 somehow had skewed cutters


----------



## Mosquito

a #46 has skewed irons, as does a Fales patent lol

On the Philips patent plane, at 7:13 I talk about and show the iron


----------



## HokieKen

Well sunuva… It sure does. How did I not know that? And why does anybody want a 45 when there's a 46? I was thinking that T&G irons wouldn't work when skewed but I see that they do. So what can a 45 do that can't be done with a 46? Seeing as how my main reason for having a 45 is plowing and rabbets, I may have to seek a trade opportunity…


----------



## Mosquito

beads? be easier to sharpen? Be cheaper?

Also, the #46 never got a cutter depth adjuster or micro adjust fence, or fence mounted knob. I also like the 3-point knickers on the later #45s vs the long oval ones on the #46, for no particularly good reason, probably


----------



## HokieKen

Ahhh. Good point. Skewed blades are little a-holes to sharpen. Nevermind, I'll keep my 45 ;-) I still need a fence with the micro-adjuster though…


----------



## DLK

Also there are more cutter options for the 45.


----------



## Mosquito

Kenny, I'll check my parts bin, I know I have part of a micro adjustment fence, but I'm not sure I have the wooden fence or metal that attaches to it (just the part that goes on the two arms and holds the adjustment screw). It's ugly, but functional, as it's been brazed back together on one side


----------



## bandit571

There was a fellow that advocated doing a back bevel on these cutters…..


----------



## PhillNLeBlanc

a neighbor dug this old 45 out of his garage yesterday - just thought I'd share. Note that it is NOT stamped "45" - looks like something Stanley Rule & Level produced before the numbering system. Notice the knob is on the main body instead of the fence (which is MIA). Very pretty old plane - have not decided yet whether to clean it up or let it be. I have not seen this plane in the type studies - curious if anyone out there has come across this type.


----------



## Mosquito

Yes, the reason you don't see No 45 is because it would have been on the fence that you're missing. This is either a type 5 or 6, depending on the fence that would have come with it. It's two types with the knob on the main casting still, and the first two types with the cutter depth adjustment mechanism. 
I've got one of each. I wouldn't say they're rare persay, as there are several types that are harder to find, but they're not as common as the later models


----------



## PhillNLeBlanc

Thanks Mosquito-I'm now smarter than I was this morning. I've asked my neighbor to keep digging and sent him a photo of a complete 45 and box of cutters so he'll know what to look for. The trouble with these planes is that there is TOO MUCH information on them! From Patrick Leach to Hyperkitten - everyone has little bits and pieces of the history of these planes. I'm sure more human time has been spent studying the No. 45 and restoring them than has been spent USING them. Cheers,


----------



## Mosquito

lol that is entirely likely!


----------



## HokieKen

Alright, I'm making two lids like these:









I am using half lap joints at the corners instead of miters because I think it will look better with the box-joints on the box construction that the lid goes on. I'm wondering if cutting the 1/8" deep 1/8" wide grooves in the frame pieces is something that I should attempt with the 45? My frame pieces will be fairly straight-grained clear walnut. The grooves in two of the four pieces would have to be stopped grooves too. I guess my main concern is in using stock that's only 3/8" thick whether or not I'll be able to "balance" the plane well enough to get good, clean grooves?

What say you? Use the 45 or just suck it up and set up the router table?


----------



## Mosquito

If you'll be cutting the strips to width, you could try using the #45 for a groove prior to cutting them to width, if it allows you to have more stock to hold.

Honestly, balancing the plane isn't any different on 3/8" wide stock than it is 1" wide stock. The skate is the same width no matter the width of the stock 

But, yeah, those pieces aren't that wide for holding on edge and still having space for the fence to register, unless you make a sticking board of some sort


----------



## HokieKen

The pieces are already cut to size and the 1/2 laps are already cut Mos. And it's a 1/8" wide groove so no skate allowed :-(


----------



## Mosquito

that's what I meant, the main skate won't get any wider for an 1/8" groove, no matter what the stock thickness is.

I'd say give it a shot if you can figure out a way to hold it, that's probably the limiting factor with pieces that narrow


----------



## HokieKen

Now I follow. I have some scrap pieces cut to size so I'll give it a run and see how it goes on those.


----------



## HokieKen

Alright, I've chewed on it for a while and decided a 46 is probably somewhere in my future. I want an adjustable plane just for rabbets and dados that has skewed cutters. I've done some ebay searches and I'm finding that the planes aren't terribly expensive but that they practically never have the full set of cutters. If you're lucky they have one cutter and the nicker. For some reason most seem to be missing the depth stop too.

So a few questions:

Anybody have one they want to sell?
What thickness are the cutters and is there anything special that would prevent me from making my own from O1 steel?
Other than the depth stop and cutters are there any often missing parts I should be careful about? 
Is the depth stop the same as the 45? So they could share one?
What's a decent price range for a plane with fence if it's missing the cutters and the depth stop?

And for the final question, *Did y'all know Mrs. Mos' is in a family way?* ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

I don't have a mini #45 in my collection, so maybe I'll have to throw something else together for this thread 


Maybe, let me take a look. I don't have any irons for it, and I know one knicker screw is in a bad way, if I remember correctly
They're about 3/32", but I have some that are 1/8" from St James Bay. I'm sure you could make your own, they're just beveled on the sides, and then cut at an angle to match the skew
If you get a later model one, that's about it, older ones with the skate + fence combo are often missing the fence screws, which are a PITA to find (and not the cheapest)
The small one should be, yeah
Whatever you want  Seems like anywhere from $100-$200 is common for one with all its parts and no irons. Full sets of irons are usually listed for about the same

There are two main styles, where the fence is attached to the sliding skate, and where you get a separate fence like a #45. There are merits to each, but I almost always reach for my earlier type, unless it's going to be a wide rabbet where I want the second skate on the work piece for stability


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks poppa ;-) I don't care about the separate skate and fence. Just the one should suffice. Awesome on the irons, they should be pretty quick and easy to make. And that's too much moolah but I'm a patient guy. Let me know if you have one to unload.


----------



## PhillNLeBlanc

I never try to walk the tightrope with a router (plane or steam-powered) on an edge. - I use a backer board (and the vise or double-sided tape depending on the length of the piece) any time I'm using a fence or some sort of edge guide. At my age, I'm happy to balance myself when I'm working, much less my tools!


----------



## Mosquito

Kenny, I could send you one of my St James irons if you wanted to measure/copy it if you want. 
I'll get out to the shop tonight and take a look at the other #46 I've got and let you know


----------



## HokieKen

That's alright Mos, I think I can get there by grinding the length/width and side bevel then I'll just put the blade in the plane and use the sole to scribe a line for the skew angle. If I run into any issues I can shoot you a request for pics or measurements 

So the 1/8" blades don't cause any issues? I'd prefer to go as thick as I can. Thinner steel likes to warp worse when hardening…


----------



## bandit571

While sizing up for the next block plane box…









Noticed a pin was missing….so, I made a new pin..









Plane appears to be a Stanley No. 9-1/2….knuckle cap….









I think….


----------



## Mosquito

Will this one do for here Kenny? lol


----------



## Mosquito

And I double checked my replacement #46 irons, and they are in fact 1/8", and haven't had any issues with them at all (at least fitting in the plane). I would go with that, as it will also help with the rigidity of the iron in use too, since the sliding skate doesn't support it like the one on the #45 does


----------



## Just_Iain

> Will this one do for here Kenny? lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito


Okay the recognize the later model Record #43 but the other two are…?


----------



## Mosquito

Left is Stanley #43, and the right is a Philips patent plow, and then yes, a Record #043 in the foreground


----------



## HokieKen

Are you the 43 or the Phillips Mos? ;-)


----------



## PhillNLeBlanc

from back when tool making was art! beautiful-and displayed like sculpture.


----------



## HokieKen

You see that Phillips Patent phil? Ain't no art there. That thing is butt ugly!


----------



## Mosquito

> Are you the 43 or the Phillips Mos? ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen





> You see that Phillips Patent phil? Ain't no art there. That thing is butt ugly!
> 
> - HokieKen


I suppose that answers that


----------



## PhillNLeBlanc

guess it's a matter of who's beholding. Look at that circle supporting the space before the tote - as long as you are building a mold, why not make it beautiful. That they did-not just the Phillips Plough-all the hand tools of that era - gone but not forgotten. Think you'll ever see a chrome Chinese wrench on a pedestal some day? I stand by my comment. (And I know all about butt ugly - I have a mirror)


----------



## Mosquito

lol Well said Phill. But that comment from Kenny was a rib shot at me, I'm sure  My wife and I are expecting in October, and the way I announced it in another thread was this representation:










And the above pictures is the closest I could get with combination planes that I own to be relevant to this thread :-D


----------



## tshiker

Hey Mos, congratulations!


----------



## PhillNLeBlanc

Congratulations Mos-got a name yet? Maybe 101 (like 7 0f 9)? or Stanley?-You could have a "guess the weight" contest right here - or name that child. I'll offer up my old 101 as a prize. A few seconds ago (seemingly) my wife and I made a slew of little thumb planes-they grew into 5s and 6s and 7s overnight. Now my #3 tells me I don't work "with" my tools, I work "on" them. He's probably right. Gotta keep churning out better copies of ourselves - it's the only way to battle entropy.









PS: If you like taking pictures of planes (which you are good at) - you are going to OD on baby pictures. Take it from Grandpa!


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, that was mostly a poke at Mos ;-) I do think the Phillips Patent is kinda ugly when compared to most combination/adjustable planes though. The lines are just too archaic. "How's this look Stanley? I don't like it Phillip. Here, spot weld my son's nose ring in the middle of that thing! There we go, that'll work! And here are some tote prototype rejects from the bench planes, stick one of them on there."

Now the #43 on the other hand speaks to me ;-)

So to summarize, yes Mos' I know which one you are ;-)

That little one is plumb gorgeous Phil ) Grandkids rule!









When they go from there ^ to being little demons, I just send them home ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

Where's your beer sippy cup Kenny?


----------



## HokieKen

There's two of them right there Nathan. What, you expect me to hold my own beer?


----------



## Mosquito

lol love it guys. Phil, do you think I can get them to sit still on the background paper too? :-D

For what it's worth, the Phillips is actually quite a pleasure to use. It's weighted pretty nicely, with being shorter than a #45. I also do like the tote, as it's more comfortable in my hand as well.

That said, if just for looks, I probably wouldn't go with a Philips patent myself either. Maybe a Mayo's improved Philips patent, but probably the original Miller patent #50 for me… 
(this is a Paul Hamler reproduction plane kit, not mine)


----------



## PhillNLeBlanc

I like the design of the knob-lateral pressure instead of downward. Another beauty. Be a shame to get sweat and sawdust all over it. But I tracked down the original source (https://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/1882MillerPatentPloughPlane.html) out of envy and curiosity and sure enough …










As for kid pics-we are fortunate today - you can take 100 digital photos for less than what Kodachrome used to cost me - so let them be kids - and take 100 pictures and you're sure to find a keeper or two.

Bet you'll end up with more kid pics than tool pics.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> Bet you ll end up with more kid pics than tool pics.
> 
> - PhillNLeBlanc


I dunno Phil. Mos' has a LOT of tool pics ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

lol I do have a lot of tool pictures. We shall see what happens :-D My camera lives in the shop though, so maybe it'll have to be kid using tools pictures? lol

And I'd be hard pressed to use an actual Miller Patent #50, but one of the reproduction kits, no problem.


----------



## Lazyman

Its going to be tool pics with kids holding them but you will tell the wife they are kid pics. When they graduate from high school, she's going to finally notice that every picture has a tool in it.


----------



## DanKrager

> Its going to be tool pics with kids holding them but you will tell the wife they are kid pics. When they graduate from high school, she s going to finally notice that every picture has a tool in it.
> 
> - Lazyman


LOL! You nailed it, Lazyman! I got to thinking that sometime between now and "the event" that little plane in the picture is going to develop a twin… If I were a photoshop expert it would happen!

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

This Millers Patent may take the cake for beautiful planes.



























Mos' can you shorten the hyperlinks in the OP for this thread? It's horrible trying to read or post in it on mobile devices.


----------



## PhillNLeBlanc

are the knurled nuts gold or brass? (just kidding)


----------



## Lazyman

Kenny, don't you just click the "new" link at the top to skip to the first new post since you last read it? No scrolling required.


----------



## HokieKen

It's not that Nathan. The site formatting just blows up on mobile browsers when there's a full hyperlink anywhere on the page.


----------



## bandit571

Best I could get, with a hand-held camera today….


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, was that a plow or fillister plane?


----------



## Lazyman

> It's not that Nathan. The site formatting just blows up on mobile browsers when there's a full hyperlink anywhere on the page.
> 
> - HokieKen


Oh that. Is it the links that mess it up? I just turn my phone sideways so it goes into landscape mode and it seems to fix it.


----------



## bandit571

Fillister.


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, I can't read the tag. Do you remember price? I'm asking because I have one on the way, whenever the PO gets it together.


----------



## bandit571

I walked on by….when I noticed a $325.** price…...


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, landscape mode fixes it Nathan but I hate landscape mode.


----------



## theoldfart

Ouch, too $$$$$$


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos' can you shorten the hyperlinks in the OP for this thread? It's horrible trying to read or post in it on mobile devices.
> 
> - HokieKen


Which one is causing it issues, can you tell? I'll try to rework it some


----------



## Mosquito

Looks like it was mainly the horizontal lines that it didn't like on Mobile. Should be better now. Disappointing that they're can never manage to fix things on this site very quickly, if ever. I know that mobile browser formatting issue's been reported before…

Looks like they have issues with their numbered and bulleted lists in portrait view on mobile as well…


----------



## HokieKen

That definitely fixed it Mos. Thanks! The formatting in portrait mode for mobile devices has always done that. I'm no coder but it seems to me like hyperlinks can't be wrapped to a second line. So it just stretches the text frame out for them. But not the borders or the buttons for new posts. If I didn't like the people on this site so much, I probably would have abandoned it long ago because I use my phone to check in a lot…


----------



## Lazyman

Deleted


----------



## HokieKen

> So I am just going to test your theory that a really long link link will not wrap the the text to the next line causing your problem do not worry I am going to remove it as soon as i see what it does on my phone really I will remove it quite your bitching Kenny I said that was going to remove seriously I am going to remove it I have an hour before it becomes permanent yeah.
> 
> - Lazyman


LOL. It only works if you post a link directly rather than using your own text I think Nathan. As long as there are spaces, it will return to the next line. If you go back and take all the spaces out, I'm not sure. Lets see…

SoIamjustgoingtotestyourtheory that broke it so I am removing it but if a link is more than one line of text with no spaces, the shat hits the fan on mobile


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, that broke it! Also I typed everything you did Nathan. So it not only didn't wrap it, it just truncated it on my desktop browser. But on mobile, it just stretched the frame to accommodate the whole thing. So if the mobile browser at least worked like the full browser and cut off the text rather than stretch the frame, all would be well…

FWIW, I'm using Chrome on both desktop and mobile but I've had the same issue with Safari.


----------



## Lazyman

Yup, that did it. Fortunately, it doesn't do that on my iPad.

EDIT: BTW, I switched from Chrome over to using Firefox on desktop and mobile. It still has the same problem on iphone but after doing some reading it is more secure and blocks a lot of the tracking better than the other browsers. Chrome may actually be the worst.


----------



## HokieKen

Ditto, all is well on my iPad too. I think the iPad uses the full browser version. Did you click on my link?


----------



## Lazyman

Hah. I just did. That guy looks just like me…but I dance better.


----------



## HokieKen

I've never Rikrolled anybody. Seemed like a good opportunity ;-)

For whatever reason, I never really liked Firefox. I used it until Chrome was released way back when. I don't deal with change well. And honestly, I don't care about the tracking. On the rare occasion I do have to see an ad, I'd just as soon it be a relevant one ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, it's probably a mix of mobile browser, and the site not playing well with responsive design considerations, so when the screen resolution gets too small, it just sort of gives up lol


----------



## KentInOttawa

I've started using the Brave browser on the desktop. It behaves like chrome but gets rid of most tracking garbage and everything loads quicker. The downside is that it doesn't share everything between different platforms and the occasional shopping cart can't seem to get the site handling the financial transaction to work.


----------



## garethmontreal

Recently i got my first two stanley 45s so i thought id share them. The first one I got from England for 160 Canadian so 120 us. Its As far as i can tell its a complete type 7 (1893-1899) with the s markings. It came with a set of cutters both long and short arms and very little rust. It also came with a custom carrying case.




























The second one i have fallen in love with and will use forever. I got it off kijij, the first time i ever looked on kijij i found and it had only been posted 4 hours earlier. As soon as i saw it i contacted the seller who was in Winnipeg (i live in Montreal) and he agreed to mail it to me for a very good price, that day! I cant say enough nice things about Tim (the seller) who gave me the back story of the plane. Its a complete (except for one thumb screw which was replaced and fits perfectly which anyone dealing with stanley tools tools knows is hard to do) Sweetheart era made in the US. It has the long arms, short arms, cam rest two sets of cutters, a set of 10 h/r hollows and rounds and the original 1924 instructions. It also has the best custom made case i have ever seen. The case has custom slots for the cutter boxes and the hollows and rounds as well as a resting holder that allows for the 45 to be fully set up with long arms ready to go. Its also in amazing condition. Its clear the original owner used this plane a lot and took great care of it im honestly honoured to have it and cant wait to get it working again.


----------



## bandit571

I think MOS just turn about 50 shades of GREEN…....


----------



## garethmontreal

I also managed to get three sets of cutters for a 55 (i checked and they work with with my 45) for about 50 us each and they have they still have the factory grind.


----------



## Lazyman

Since you want to "share them". When is my turn?


----------



## Mosquito

Cool box, kind of reminds me a little bit of the layout of the English toolchest style one I got a couple years ago. A good box is always a nice bonus, and generally means a previous owner took good care of it


----------



## DavePolaschek

Well, I've been in the process of making a picture frame for our road trip map, which is 40"x60" in size.

I started with four 3/8 thick pieces of ash, 2 inches wide, and 66 inches long. Found a few things…

1. When using a sticking board in combination with a combination plane, make sure the screws are lower than you'll be cutting, not just lower than the top of the board.


----------



## theoldfart

Dave, that bead is awful close to that rabbet. Any worry about splitting?

As for starting at the opposite end, it also helps with keeping your plane on track.


----------



## DavePolaschek

A little, Kev. But it didn't split yet, and the frame won't have much stress on it, as the map going in it will just be mounted on a chunk of foam core. I figure if I didn't split it putting in the bead, I'm probably ok. Or I'll split it mitering the corners…

Huh. Noticed that my last edit truncated most of my post away. Oops. Oh well.

Here's the picture again for those wondering what Kevin's talking about.


----------



## Lazyman

I was wondering what sort of clairvoyance he was using to see the bead and rabbet.


----------



## theoldfart

I do have powers! Beware.


----------



## DavePolaschek

One of the side effects of this is that I ordered four more beading blades for my Veritas Combination Plane from Lee Valley. I had thought my #66 beading tool clone or scratch stocks would keep me happy, but when doing a 5 foot long section, the combination plane is just a better tool for the job. And framing a 40"x60" map means I'm prepping 22 feet of stock for the frame. I'm hoping the leftovers will be enough to frame a couple of the smaller pictures I'm planning to hang in the shop too.


----------



## controlfreak

Good news is I now have a Stanley 45. The bad news I will now need to read the previous 2680 posts.


----------



## Mosquito

hahaha, awesome. Good luck and happy reading  Once you're done reading, you can be initiated


----------



## HokieKen

Enjoy controlfreak! I thoroughly enjoy my 45 on the occasions that I use it. The most fun I had was restoring/overhauling it though  I did a blog series if you're interested.


----------



## theoldfart

Don't rule out wooden beading planes, they are pretty cool as well.


----------



## rad457

> hahaha, awesome. Good luck and happy reading  Once you re done reading, you can be initiated
> 
> - Mosquito


I was wondering bout that, When can I take that you know what off? 
Congrats on the #45 Controlfreak Now your challenge is see how many blades you can aquire? Plus realize that one is never enough!


----------



## DavePolaschek

I've made a couple wooden beading planes, Kev. They're handy, and feel good in the hand, and I made them so they'd accept #66 blades. Plus I have (in one of the boxes I haven't unpacked yet) a stock of blanks that'll fit the #66 and a couple chainsaw files for making my own profiles.

But as I said, for a five foot log board, the combination plane wins for ergonomics and efficiency.


----------



## controlfreak

> Enjoy controlfreak! I thoroughly enjoy my 45 on the occasions that I use it. The most fun I had was restoring/overhauling it though  I did a blog series if you re interested.
> 
> - HokieKen


Very nice Kenny. For the brass wheel, is that on a bench grinder? I may need to get one if yes.


----------



## bandit571

hmm…









Somedays this works….









And..sometimes this works better









Shavings come out the side as curls….









Bad part…no set-able depth stop…..IF you go until it stops cutting…you may have gone too far….


----------



## HokieKen

> Very nice Kenny. For the brass wheel, is that on a bench grinder? I may need to get one if yes.
> 
> - controlfreak


Yeah, I have one for my bench grinder that's actually brass-coated steel wire. You can buy solid brass wire wheels too but they're quite a bit more expensive and the brass-coated fine steel wire does just fine for me. I also have brass-coated wire wheels for my angle grinder, brass and steel wheels for my dremel and brass and steel scrub brushes. They all get used regularly


----------



## houblon

With the concentration of combination planes found in this thread, does anyone of you have a cadmium plated one?
At least Sargent mentioned it in one of the manuals.
Is it easy to recognize?


----------



## theoldfart

I'm pretty sure Record 405's are cadmium plated.


----------



## Lazyman

I just received this 45 that I accidentally bought on eBay. I put in a minimum bid thinking surely someone would outbid me but no one else bid on it. Turns out it's a Sargent made Craftsman branded plane. I'm sure it was so cheap because the old Sargent cutters are unique and hard to find. Based upon the yellowish color, I'm guessing this is probably a cadmium plated tool. It actually looks yellower in person than in the pictures. 









Fortunately, it came with one 3/4" cutter so I sharpened and gave it a try cutting a rabbet on a scrap.of Doug fir










It is a joy to use. Once the one the I intentionally purchased shows up, I will probably try to sell this one, though I am on the hunt for some Sargent style cutters for it. Overall, it's in good shape. Most of the iron screws need some rust removal and there is a little grim that may need some sort of cleaner to get out of the natural rough surface. Anyone have a recommendation for cleaning the grim that isn't rust?


----------



## Lazyman

Most of you guys probably follow Mos' 45 thread but here is a picture of the Craftsman (Sargent) 45 that I accidentally bought. I put an edge the one cutter that came with it and gave it a try.


----------



## Mosquito

Nathan, was that second post meant for HPOYD thread?

Decent looking Craftsman. I've got a Fulton of similar make, and will say that I do actually like the depth adjustment better on that one than I do Stanley's offering. Other than that, though, no real preference towards it. Looks like yours is a newer one, since it's got the knob instead of the hotdog fence


----------



## HokieKen

Nathan, if you're gonna be using all these planes, you're gonna have to build a new bench with some better workholding ;-) Looks like that Craftsman works just fine!


----------



## Lazyman

Hmm. Yup. Not sure how that happened Mos. Perhaps, when I came over here to copy the link to the image, I didn't switch back to the other thread as I thought I did.

Way ahead of you Kenny. Ever since I finally started tuning and using my planes, I've come to that same conclusion so I am in the preliminary research phase trying to decide which style and direction I am going to be heading in. My current "bench" is really just an outfeed/assembly table that was never really meant to be used as a bench (it's way too light), even though I did add a vise and some dog holes but they aren't really place properly to make them easy to use. The other basic bench I have has all my bench tools (grinder, belt sander and Proedge) on it.

I am going to have to find, make or modify some more cutters for the Craftsman or it will just be a really fancy looking rabbet plane. I will probably eventually sell it and having more cutters for it will hopefully make it easier to sell.


----------



## Lazyman

So what do you guys who have cleaned and reconditioned some of these old 45s recommend for cleaning the body? I don't really want to use a wire wheel, especially if it really is a cadmium plating. I don't want to breath the dust and would rather not do anything that would disturb that coating, especially since there isn't too much rust except on the non plated steel bits. Most of the spots seem to scrap off if I use a dental pick for example but there is way to much embedded grim to take that approach so I am looking for a good cleaner that I can apply rather than submerse so I don't have to remove the handle which is in excellent shape.


----------



## Lazyman

I just looked at the depth adjustment on the Stanley version Mos and I see what you mean about the depth adjustment. This is really nice for being about dial in on an exact depth if you need to .


----------



## HokieKen

Nathan, check on Lost Art Press for the Anarchists Workbench. The pdf is free. I have skimmed it and it's a great analysis of many different types of benches and it's all based on actual experience building and using them.

I like to start with Simple Green and a few toothbrushes


----------



## CaptainKlutz

*Lazyman* 
Not an expert, just sharing something that worked for me on cleaning up nickel plating?
Cadmium plating picks up sulfur just like silver plating, but it turns yellow not black. Try using a buffer wheel with soft metal compound, instead of wire brush.
In my case, the nickel was so thin and very fragile; was easy to remove it without realizing I had buffed it off the edges, so go slow with gentle pressure. 
I also tried Tarn-X silver cleaner, even though the stuff is sort of a joke. 
Surprising, was able to restore a bright nickel layer on a yellow tinged router plane using it. Used a Que-tip on small flat area to test first to see if it works, and it did. Use a tooth brush to work it into any texture on surfaces. With the sulfur removed, you might find a very thin layer of shiny nickel hiding underneath. Due the extremely thin nickel, the plating started turning yellow again a few weeks later (one of the joys of Tarn-X), but spraying on coat of lacquer stopped the oxidation. 
YMMV
Best Luck!


----------



## Lazyman

Thanks. Simple Green was going to be my default if I found not other options. I will try that to get the first layer of grim off and try some sort of polishing technique. I picked up a whole tool box full of dremel buffing wheels of all shapes at a garage sale and that may allow me to get at some tight area. I saw a reference somewhere that Nevr Dull wadding polish would work. Anyone ever tried that?

BTW, another part that might be pretty hard to come by because it is different than the Stanley version are the scribes, though I haven't looked yet. Instead of the spurs it has a disk with registration notches. While I haven't tried either type yet, this approach actually seems less likely to break? Maybe not but it looks less fragile to me.










EDIT: I just checked NHPP eBay store and he has several of the slitter disks listed.


----------



## Mosquito

If I were going to make my own, I'd rather make those than the Stanley's lol


----------



## houblon

I might be careful using any form of abrasion on cadmium. You are aware that it is quite toxic?

BTW I have the same plane, a craftsman branded sargent 1080. And yellowish, too. You might be able to cut notches in stanley cutters.


----------



## HokieKen

That knicker-disk is slick. (say that 3 times fast!) Is it eccentric so that you can rotate to different index notches to increase/decrease the depth? That's one thing that bugs me a bit about the Stanley - the knicker seems to be awfully deep referenced to the skate. Which is fine if you want to score a line then remove the knicker but not so awesome for letting it run ahead of an iron as intended.


----------



## Mosquito

Kenny, for my main user, I have sharpened the knickers to be 3 different heights (they were already pretty close to that). I'm not sure if they were just worn that way, or intentionally sized by a previous owner, but it lets me use it for hard and soft woods with different depths of scoring pretty easily.

This is where I feel the early #45's had a superior design to the later ones. They had the large knickers that were depth adjustable.

If that disc is indeed eccentric, that would be fantastic


----------



## HokieKen

Never thought to check and see if all 3 ears on my knickers are the same height Mos. I had already thought about grinding one ear down to be a little shorter. I'm just not positive that once I grind the sharp edge off I'll ever get it back. I'm pretty sure when I sharpened them to begin with I left more knuckle skin on the abrasives than I did tool steel.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> This is where I feel the early #45 s had a superior design to the later ones. They had the large knickers that were depth adjustable.
> 
> ...
> - Mosquito


So you sold me one that was too early to have the good fence with the fine adjustment but too late to have the good adjustable height knickers? What a lemon.

;-))


----------



## Mosquito

LOL why do you think I wanted to sell it? 

And actually, come to think of it, I'm not sure that the #45's actually had those ones, it may have never gotten those, while the #46 did…

EDIT: They did not get those, so never mind :-D


----------



## HokieKen

Hmm. Now you have my wheels spinning… It wouldn't be hard at all to fit a 46-style knicker to a 45. I doubt very seriously it will ever seem worth the effort to me, but it should be fairly easy to do.


----------



## controlfreak

Is there anyone who makes new knickers for the 45? I wouldn't mind getting one just to have it in the box if they aren't too expensive.

Okay I just searched on Ebay and spotted one that is a reproduction for $5 so the next question is, anybody try one of these yet?


----------



## HokieKen

> Is there anyone who makes new knickers for the 45? I wouldn t mind getting one just to have it in the box if they aren t too expensive.
> 
> Okay I just searched on Ebay and spotted one that is a reproduction for $5 so the next question is, anybody try one of these yet?
> 
> - controlfreak


Ebay is your best option. I'm sure reproductions are fine. Probably better actually since used ones may be too thin or have big chips out.


----------



## DLK

> Is there anyone who makes new knickers for the 45? I wouldn t mind getting one just to have it in the box if they aren t too expensive.
> 
> - controlfreak


Apparently so: See this I have not bought them from this seller. I have brought them from New Hampshire plane parts If you don't see the part listed send him a message and he may find it for you. Also you can make them.

Actually I said what the hell and order the spur kit from the first seller, just to see if and what they will fit.


----------



## DLK

.


----------



## Lazyman

They aren't eccentric Kenny but in the first position where only the corner is exposed, it may be 1/64 (?j higher. By the next notch the corner is in line with the screw and at the full depth. With the radius of the cutting edge longer than the standard T spur, perhaps that could make a more gradual slice? The cutting edge below the runner once at the second notch is about 1/4" long and about 3/64 deep give or take. Radius of the cutter is 3/8" and thickness is 1/16". 
On thing that I just realized is the they left and right handed so not interchangeable between the two runners.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, make sure they're on properly Nathan. I've seen a boatload of planes on Ebay where the knickers were installed backwards.


----------



## Lazyman

> I might be careful using any form of abrasion on cadmium. You are aware that it is quite toxic?
> 
> BTW I have the same plane, a craftsman branded sargent 1080. And yellowish, too. You might be able to cut notches in stanley cutters.
> 
> - houblon


Thanks for the warning about the cadmium. That's one reason I don't want to use a wire wheel and create a toxic dust cloud. The other is it seems to have done a pretty good job of preventing rust so it doesn't need to be removed. I'm hoping that some sort of mild polishing compound will be all that is needed after using some simple green and a toothbrush. I did order some Nevr Dull to give that a try as well.

I actually bought a set of Stanley cutters for it . I'll try them without modifications and then try to change one to see it is worth the trouble.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Wow… stretches legs and peeks in.

Haven't been HERE in a while. Almost hard to believe I remembered the password on the first try.

Anyway… a lot of real life has occurred between when I was last active with anything involving old tools and now. But as of recently, I'm able to get into the shop and made a couple of boxes for some of the tools that really need some serious storage help. In the past week I've boxed up a router plane and an old type 1.5 Stanley 113. This week I'm doing the 45 and MAYBE the 55.

Which brings me to my question: does anyone have the repro label files saved that were originally posted in 2012 here? https://www.lumberjocks.com/grfrazee/blog/32410

Google+ is dead and while I had them years ago, I have about zero chance of digging up whatever storage they were saved to. If they are in this thread somewhere I was unable to find them.


----------



## HokieKen

Glenn, I have these reproductions. Honestly don't recall where I got them :-/




































If you want the original files, PM me your e-mail address.


----------



## bandit571

I could use such a label…since I have a Type 20, Roxton Pond QUE, CAN No. 45

Replacement box has a New Britain label….would rather the Made in Canada version be on the end.

Mine was made at Roxton Pond. Owner shipped it fro Toronto, down to a get together in Vicksburg, MS. USPS ( or Canada Customs trashed the lid. My task? was a NEW box, and clean and rehab the #45..









Needed a bit of work. Has a SW logo, along with the Made in CAN….
After the LONG ride back to my home…..I cleaned it up, and made a new box to replace the busted up one.









Open the lid..









And, set up the plane..









And…put it to work..


----------



## Mosquito

I've got this label










And these










They're both full size if you save them. 
Kenny, would you mind sending the files to me? I have them… somewhere, I just don't can't seem to find them at the moment lol

And Bandit, believe it or not, there was actually some debate as to whether or not Stanley ever actually made #45's in CA. There are some at least somewhat credible sources that I've seen that indicate that they were trademarked and stamped as being made in Canada, so they could sell them up there under "certain circumstances" of the time.


----------



## Mosquito

I also made this one this one


----------



## sansoo22

Would anyone be interested in having these labels turned into vectors? I'm going to be reaching out to Ken and Mos to get their images for a box for my new 45. I will be making vectors already so I could host them on Google Drive if anyone else would want hi-res that could be resized to whatever dimensions you want with no loss in quality or pixelation.


----------



## sansoo22

Also cross posting this from the hand plane thread because I finally get to join this one…I was feeling left out.


----------



## controlfreak

I also am interested in these label files. A box to put them on is in my future.


----------



## Mosquito

I would be sansoo.

The script logo and the One45Plane images I posted above are both already SVG files.

The #45 looks nice, original packing paper and everything


----------



## HokieKen

Rather than e-mailing anything, I saved Mos' labels with mine and put them in a Google Drive Folder. So go nuts and snatch whatever y'all want ;-) I'd like to have the vector files too Sansoo. I'll put them in that folder if you want when you get them done and I'll just leave that folder alone with access for anyone with the link. Feel free to put the link in the OP if you want Mos.


----------



## HokieKen

Also, you'll notice the "One 45" green line I posted is kinda sloppy so I would definitely use Mos' and just change the color if you need green. I would just delete the green one but I'm sure there are some who aren't inclined to be editing vector files.


----------



## Mosquito

I have some images of some re-prints that someone made. Would require some tweaking, as none/not many are straight on images, which is where my One 45 Plane svg above came from (as well as the script logo sans outline)


----------



## HokieKen

I forgot I had this one too. I'll stick it in the folder. It's just a photo of an original label but it's head on.


----------



## HokieKen

All the links to type studies in the OP are dead. Are there no type studies available anymore?

Edit: I guess I shouldn't say the links are dead. The type studies are just gone from the pages…


----------



## Mosquito

All 3 links seem to be working for me?


----------



## Mosquito

Ah, yeah Kenny, they're the "partial type studies" that still exist. I'm working on one myself, but it's still a ways out, I'm afraid. Just have pictures taken, edited, and uploaded for a few types
https://www.mosquitomediaserver.com/projectLogImages/45TypeStudy/

The good one from tooltrip is gone, but I've got it saved, so I may try to re-upload in part

EDIT: Which I've just done:
https://www.mosquitomediaserver.com/projectLogImages/45TypeStudy/tooltrip/%2345%20Type%20Study.html


----------



## sansoo22

Thanks Mos, I just used your link to type mine. Its a 16 or 17 according to your info.

Thanks Ken for that Drive folder. I will most likely be starting on these Sunday. I will probably do green and black versions for now. Once the vectors are all setup in Illustrator changing colors is cake. The hard part is going to be getting all 100k+ font library I have loaded back up to find all my old timey fonts and see if I already have a dead on match for these labels.


----------



## Lazyman

You might be able to find that on the way-back machine if you know the original URL.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm aware, that's where I got it from a while ago. I pulled down more or less the whole site


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Mos! That tooltrip one is the one I think I was looking for. It doesn't mention that the knob moved to the fence in Type 7 though. I was gonna try the wayback machine but it's NSFW so I would have to do it when I get home. You saved me the trouble ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

The tooltrip study doesn't mention when the screw adjuster was added to the depth stop either. I believe that was type 7 a well?


----------



## Mosquito

There's a lot of details that the tooltrip one doesn't have, which is why I wanted to make my own 

I'll have to double check on screw adjustment for the depth stop. I have a Keen Kutter based on the old type (6) that has the same mechanism









I don't yet have pictures uploaded of my Types 5 and 6 to look at, but my gut is saying Type 7 may have introduced it, but the KK series were made after type 7's came out, and so they included that? Not sure


----------



## HokieKen

Just looking at the pictures on the tooltrip study, he says this is a type 6









and you can see the stem from the depth stop sticking up but there's no knurled nut there. And the stem doesn't look to be threaded but the picture isn't clear enough to be able to tell for sure.


----------



## PhillNLeBlanc

here's what the back side of my type 6 looks like…


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Phil. That's much clearer. Definitely no adjuster nut on there.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Thanks a ton, guys! 45 box with labels, here I come.

Somehow I knew that stuff got preserved.


----------



## sansoo22

Quick preview to see what you guys think. I had trouble reproducing the colors from Mos second set of images. There is shadows and glare so I picked colors kind of in the middle.


----------



## Mosquito

Not too shabby Sansoo


----------



## Mosquito

.


----------



## Mosquito

For that one, you could probably even use the Stanley Script vector that I had, and just add the border around it too. Maybe leave it just outlines?


----------



## sansoo22

> For that one, you could probably even use the Stanley Script vector that I had, and just add the border around it too. Maybe leave it just outlines?
> 
> - Mosquito


I used the script SVG you had. It looked just as good as I could do if I scanned my 45 box and traced it. I can do one with just outlines. Everything is individual pieces stored in layers so pretty much imagination is the only limit now.

Any suggestion on the size? They will be SVGs so resizing is no big deal but wasn't sure if there was any recommendation for less computer savvy folks to be able to just print and use.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice work Sansoo. Appreciate the effort! I would recommend a size a little larger than necessary rather than a little smaller. That way if less-savvy people scale it using the printer dialog it will be scaling down rather than up.

If anyone wants to edit the vector files from Mos and Sansoo but doesn't have software, Inkscape is free and pretty intuitive for basic editing tasks.


----------



## Mosquito

Depends on how much work you want to do Sansoo :-D If it were me, I'd probably do 3 versions. An SVG, a jpg/png, and a PDF where it's 100% scale in the PDF. Easy to just print and go when the scaling is always right in the PDF. If you want any help with any of this, I'd be more than happy to assist with a few too.

And +1 to Inkscape, that's actually what I use for all my vector work


----------



## DanKrager

+1 on Inkscape for vectors. I use that for scroll saw patterns. It's definitely easier to learn than something like Blender or even GIMP, both of which can do vector work, but not so intuitively for someone not experienced with vector technology.

Thank you for the efforts, guys. For me it's a rewarding joy to share stuff like this with like minded folks. I have made a box for the 444 without label yet, and boxes for the 45's, 46's and 55's are pending. These labels will be used as intended!

DanK


----------



## sansoo22

Here is the format I'm going with for the labels. I will put as many as I can on a standard 8.5×11 sheet with a full 1/2" gutter so it will work with most printers. I'm using my box as a guide for dimensions. I will be sending a zip file to Ken for hosting with SVG, PNG (transparent), and PDF file formats in it. I figure if it's a grid like this it gives someone a few chances to screw up and not have to reprint a whole new label. Or take the file somewhere and have fancy water slide decals printed up.


----------



## HokieKen

That 4 looks like a 3 year old drew it. I hate that 4. Not your fault Sansoo, you did great replicating Stanley's 4 but they did a crap job to begin with…


----------



## sansoo22

> That 4 looks like a 3 year old drew it. I hate that 4. Not your fault Sansoo, you did great replicating Stanley s 4 but they did a crap job to begin with…
> 
> - HokieKen


It was hard for me to not change that 4 as I hate it as well. I started my college career as a graphic artist before switching to development so it was like a hot poker to the eye having to look at that ugly thing.


----------



## HokieKen

There's always this option Sansoo:


----------



## controlfreak

> There s always this option Sansoo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


That's the one I want on my box. I am not a huge fan of the one that looks like a road sign.


----------



## HokieKen

I'll probably go with the road sign one but I'll straighten the 4 out. I'm no purist ;-)


----------



## sansoo22

I don't like the tracking on that 4 and 5 but I can tweak that. I bet one of my 10k fonts matches this pretty close already. Good thing I didn't trash all my old graphic design files or skills for that matter. They are actually coming in handy now.


----------



## bandit571

and…









and..








OEM Box. With the Roxton Pond Label








And what I have on the copy of the OEM box…









Would prefer the Roxton Pond label


----------



## HokieKen

Just got "one 45" and "one 55" labels from Sansoo in pdf, png and svg formats. Added them to the folder I linked yesterday. Thanks for the effort Sansoo!


----------



## Mosquito

I'll probably go through all my boxes and see how many I've got


----------



## bigJohninvegas

Hello all,
First off, thank you Mosquito for all the info you have provided here. I have read a lot of your blog with intent on learning how to use this plane. However, I just don't think I am ever going to get around to it. 
I have this Craftsman 3728, Been holding on to it for many years. Maybe I hold onto it a few more. About 4 more years to retirement. Maybe I get around to using it then. Or, face the fact that I doubt I ever use it. And so part with it. 
So at the moment, I am looking for info on what its really worth?
Been around the web looking at prices. And of course places like ebay are just all over the place. 
Seeing prices reminds me of the the Craigslist posters have have gone nuts. Saw a #45 for something like $500.
So My plane has seen good use in its life, But as far as I can tell. Seems to be pretty complete, Full set of cutters. 
So, check out the photos, Feedback welcome. 
Oh, and should I be asking this on Trade Swap forum? I will move it. Only here because of all the relevant info on combination planes. 
thanks,


----------



## HokieKen

John, I don't know about those C'man planes. It's largely dependent on vintage and who made it for them. When I have something to sell and I'm not sure about realistic pricing, I use the advanced search tools on ebay and look at listings that have actually sold over the past 6-12 months. That will give you a better check on what people are actually paying for something vs looking at the listing and only seeing what sellers wish they were paying.


----------



## Lazyman

It looks like it has the Sargent 1080 style depth adjustment and cutters with 2 notches. Compared to the standard 1 notch Stanley style, spare cutters are pretty rare, at least in full sets, on eBay. In my short time looking for spare Sargent irons over the last week or two on eBay, the Sargent planes seem to be more rare but also seem to be in less demand in general. Since it looks to be mostly a complete plane and set of cutters and it is in good shape, it should fetch a decent price but compare it the the Sargent 1080 planes to see historically what they go for.


----------



## sansoo22

This one was not so easy/ The 45 illustration was a pain to find and then get Illustrator to trace it. Anyway this will be getting packaged up soon and sent to Ken.










Bandit - I will work on the Roxton 45 next. Then its on to the cutter labels


----------



## HokieKen

Awesome! I think I like that one best 

Mos, do you know what labels were on the different types?


----------



## bandit571

sansoo22…THANK YOU !


----------



## sansoo22

I think this looks pretty darn close to the Roxton version. If you like it Bandit I will send it over to Ken for hosting.


----------



## theoldfart

> This one was not so easy/ The 45 illustration was a pain to find and then get Illustrator to trace it. Anyway this will be getting packaged up soon and sent to Ken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - sansoo22


Sansoo, this is the label on my 45 box! Nice work.


----------



## bandit571

> I think this looks pretty darn close to the Roxton version. If you like it Bandit I will send it over to Ken for hosting.
> 
> - sansoo22


Looks good to me.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Big John, I'd have paid $300-400 for that before Lee Valley came out with the Veritas Combination Plane. Looks like you've got a fairly complete set there, and that's worth some money.

At this point, I've got the Veritas, and I'm a user, not a collector, so I don't need another, but if you do decide to sell it, make sure to stress that it's complete. For someone shopping for a vintage one to use, that's a big deal.


----------



## sansoo22

I sent everything I've built so far today over to Ken for hosting.

Road sign style 45 and 55
Old School 45 with the illustration on it
Roxton 45 for bandit
Stanley Script logo for top of box

Sunday I will get started on the "Manufactured By" and the cutter labels. Once I get the 45 kit all knocked out I will probably start a thread to take requests for other labels.

Bandit - I saved the few you asked for already and will do those for you. You've donated enough irons, parts, and planes to members lately I feel you should have some quality labels for you boxes.


----------



## theoldfart

Good on ya Sansoo for that offer to Bandit. Well done.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice indeed!


----------



## bandit571

Thank you!


----------



## Lazyman

I know aluminum 45s are rare but are they $2500+ rare?

BTW Mos, don't forget to add Kenny's google drive link for the label graphics to the OP.


----------



## bigJohninvegas

> I use the advanced search tools on ebay and look at listings that have actually sold over the past 6-12 months. That will give you a better check on what people are actually paying for something vs looking at the listing and only seeing what sellers wish they were paying.
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks Kenny, I have not actually used ebay much. The advanced search was just what I needed. 
Found two that sold this year. If the closed ad is what they actually sold for, $170, and $130 respectively.
Both had the original box. Mine does have some wear marks and a chip in the fence.



> It looks like it has the Sargent 1080 style depth adjustment and cutters with 2 notches.
> 
> - Lazyman


Lazyman, Your right, with a little more reading I discovered that removing the wood fence shows a 1080 stamped into the metal. I did read something about the black oxide hardware on my plane. I need to go revisit, if I can find where I read it again. that the black oxide dates the plane to early to mid 1940s. I could have that wrong.



> Big John, I'd have paid $300-400 for that before Lee Valley came out with the Veritas Combination Plane. Looks like you've got a fairly complete set there, and that's worth some money.
> 
> At this point, I've got the Veritas, and I'm a user, not a collector, so I don't need another, but if you do decide to sell it, make sure to stress that it's complete. For someone shopping for a vintage one to use, that's a big deal.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Hi Dave, I had to go look up the Veritas version. I have a couple Veritas planes. Never saw the combination plane before. Yes, if I do go ahead and let it go, It will be the complete set. Would never part it out. 
I was thinking that some of the Ebay prices were way to high. And some are, but it does look like the plane has some value. Although I have not used it, I still have mixed feelings about selling it. So I think I'm going to just put it away for a bit. Thank you all for your input. It has been very helpful. And if I do let it go, at least I have a good idea about what to ask.

Thanks again,


----------



## bigJohninvegas

> I use the advanced search tools on ebay and look at listings that have actually sold over the past 6-12 months. That will give you a better check on what people are actually paying for something vs looking at the listing and only seeing what sellers wish they were paying.
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks Kenny, I have not actually used ebay much. The advanced search was just what I needed. 
Found two that sold this year. If the closed ad is what they actually sold for, $170, and $130 respectively.
Both had the original box. Mine does have some wear marks and a chip in the fence.



> It looks like it has the Sargent 1080 style depth adjustment and cutters with 2 notches.
> 
> - Lazyman


Lazyman, Your right, with a little more reading I discovered that removing the wood fence shows a 1080 stamped into the metal. I did read something about the black oxide hardware on my plane. I need to go revisit, if I can find where I read it again. that the black oxide dates the plane to early to mid 1940s. I could have that wrong.



> Big John, I'd have paid $300-400 for that before Lee Valley came out with the Veritas Combination Plane. Looks like you've got a fairly complete set there, and that's worth some money.
> 
> At this point, I've got the Veritas, and I'm a user, not a collector, so I don't need another, but if you do decide to sell it, make sure to stress that it's complete. For someone shopping for a vintage one to use, that's a big deal.
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


Hi Dave, I had to go look up the Veritas version. I have a couple Veritas planes. Never saw the combination plane before. Yes, if I do go ahead and let it go, It will be the complete set. Would never part it out. 
I was thinking that some of the Ebay prices were way to high. And some are, but it does look like the plane has some value. Although I have not used it, I still have mixed feelings about selling it. So I think I'm going to just put it away for a bit. Thank you all for your input. It has been very helpful. And if I do let it go, at least I have a good idea about what to ask.

Thanks again,

Well, this is different. Anyone know why this just double posted? And how to delete the second post?


----------



## Lazyman

Double posts just happen every now and then. Only way to delete one is to edit and delete the text. You cannot remove the posting itself. You have to do it within an hour of posting.


----------



## controlfreak

Those labels look fantastic but I will need to go back and figure out how to get them. Not try to fake anything but just want my 45 box to look cool. Next question is what to print them on so they don't smear messy with whatever finish goes on top. I am always on the lookout for a piece of old furniture on the curb to harvest some old pine drawer sides to make the box out of.


----------



## Mosquito

> I know aluminum 45s are rare but are they $2500+ rare?
> 
> - Lazyman


Not usually, that's about $1000 high for good examples, and probably close to $1200-$1300 high for that particular example, given it's condition. I would probably say they're doing pretty well if they can get $1000-$1100 for that one on eBay, but I'd expect it to go for closer to $800-900 if it weren't starting way above that. Excellent examples with really good condition boxes typically sell for $1700-$1900.

I picked mine up for 10% of what this guy wants, but it didn't have a box, and was not in as good of shape, but it's an A45 none the less lol Still looking for the other Aluminum #45 for my collection, but this would certainly not be the one lol Plenty of other tools I'd rather have for $2500 than this :-D



> BTW Mos, don t forget to add Kenny s google drive link for the label graphics to the OP.
> 
> - Lazyman


I have not forgotten, just some internal debate. I'll add it for now though


----------



## HokieKen

Sorry Mos, I didn't really even think about the ethical side. Whatever you think about the link in the OP. I have all the labels and everyone following this thread should see the link. And if anyone pops in and asks about labels, I can always post the link again.

I added the Roxton Pond label to the folder. Thanks again to Sansoo  I'll probably use that one myself. The 4 looks not-stupid.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, I may download them, tweak them to add a tasteful "reproduction" somewhere in them, and then upload them to one of my webhosts and link that. I appreciate the historical accuracy, but don't really want to assist people making fakes either (not saying someone here would, but it does happen)


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I could see unscrupulous Ebay sellers making fake labels.


----------



## Ocelot

@bigjohninvegas,

I notice your plane was set up for left-handed use. Are you left-handed?

I recently bought a `200-year-old wooded plow plane where the fence had been moved to the goofy side (on the right). Just wondering…

-Paul


----------



## HokieKen

I think somebody just put the skate in the wrong place on John's plane Paul. It won't work properly with it on that side because then you would have both of the supports on one side of the blade rather than one on each side. You wouldn't be able to cut a groove because the skate would prevent the plane from moving down. Anybody who uses a 45 (or clone) is right-handed ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's a solid plan, Mos. Can't stop counterfeiters outright, but certainly don't have to make it easy.


----------



## Lazyman

Good idea about putting some sort or reproduction note or watermark on the labels but you will want to make sure that they are not one of the easily modifiable formats. You might also put some sort of fair use statement on your download page. Perhaps some micro print small enough not to stand out but large enough that most printers can still make them readable with some reading glasses.

Probably a little larger than this.


----------



## HokieKen

Just put a very faint watermark of my face on top Mos. Then there's no danger of anyone buying them.


----------



## bigJohninvegas

> @bigjohninvegas,
> 
> I notice your plane was set up for left-handed use. Are you left-handed?
> 
> -Paul
> 
> - Ocelot


I am left handed, but honestly I have no idea about the set up. How you see it is how I got it. 
I am going to just put it away. Maybe I'll get around to learning how to use it someday.


----------



## Lazyman

> I think somebody just put the skate in the wrong place on John s plane Paul. It won t work properly with it on that side because then you would have both of the supports on one side of the blade rather than one on each side. You wouldn t be able to cut a groove because the skate would prevent the plane from moving down. Anybody who uses a 45 (or clone) is right-handed ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


If you look again, just the fence is on the right. The skate is on the left as it should be. I presume you could use it like this to cut a groove or bead using the right side of a board as a guide. I assume this would be handy if the grain is running the wrong way. No idea if that is a good or bad idea.


----------



## Mosquito

I've done it, it's awkward lol


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, duh Nathan. I got my right lefted thinking my left was righted. You know…

It would be REALLY awkward I think with the knob on the back of the fence AND on the right side…


----------



## Lazyman

> Yeah, duh Nathan. I got my right lefted thinking my left was righted. You know…
> 
> I would be REALLY *awkward* I think with the knob on the back of the fence AND on the right side…
> 
> - HokieKen


 In other words left handed. (-:


----------



## theoldfart

I would have enjoyed a video of you working that setup!

The sound track would have to be muted of course.


----------



## HokieKen

I suppose you could actually flip the fence around so the knob was in front and it may not be too bad for a southpaw? I know the Stanley's of certain types had the face of the fence casting opposite the Rosewood machined flat so you could flip it around for a longer reach. Of course I imagine those types had the knob on the main body so knob position probably wasn't a big concern.

I actually find that I put my left hand on the fence part rather than on the knob anyway to keep the fence firmly registered on the work. So the knob position may be irrelevant for some anyway.


----------



## Mosquito

I've held the #45's a bunch of different ways, and none of them involved grabbing the knob like a knob… I've thought about reshaping one (making a new one) that fits more in the web of my thumb, as a result. That's mostly how I hold it

Maybe I'll do it just for fun Kevin


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, the problem for me I think is that having the knob higher than the tote and out of line with it is just weird after holding hand planes so much. I made a new knob for mine, and it feels great in my hand, but it just doesn't feel "right" trying to hold it when planing. Maybe I'll try to force myself to use it and see if I get used to it.

I will say that the tote I made for my 45 is probably the most comfortable one on any of my planes. I may try to duplicate the shape and angle of it for a couple of hand planes that need new ones. The biggest difference is that it's a little fatter and a lot rounder (no flat spots) than the original.


----------



## Lazyman

I've only used the Craftsman (Sargent) 45 that I accidentally bought a few times so far. On most bench planes you normally are pressing down on the nob but there is nothing under the fence/nob on the 45. So as a 45 newbie, I think that is why it feels so awkward to use the nob. I almost immediately slid my hand sort of under the fence so that I could feel where it registered against the side of the board.

Change a couple of words and put some "she saids" in that and it'll take on a completely different meaning.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm about sick of hunting for a fence for the 45. I have the correct one but I want one with the micro adjust for useability. Anybody have an orphan to sell? I passed on one Mos has that had a repair because I want a "pretty" one. I may end up going back to him for his ugly orphan though…


----------



## HokieKen

That's what she said Nathan.


----------



## sansoo22

I've got the cutter labels and three versions of the manufactured by labels done. Should I add a small "reproduction" mark to these somewhere?


----------



## controlfreak

> I ve got the cutter labels and three versions of the manufactured by labels done. Should I add a small "reproduction" mark to these somewhere?
> 
> - sansoo22


I suppose if someone was bound and determined to commit fakery they could add a tear or other blemish there or edit it back out. I wouldn't overthink it. As I think about this I wonder if any of my kids will want any of my tools to remember me by or look them up to see what their worth "genuine Stanley 45 in original box" comes to mind. I have one tool that belonged to my grandfather, a wood handled spokeshave. I always think of him when I see it.


----------



## HokieKen

> I ve got the cutter labels and three versions of the manufactured by labels done. Should I add a small "reproduction" mark to these somewhere?
> 
> - sansoo22


Maybe just a small "2020" somewhere on the edge? That's subtle enough to not ruin the look but obvious enough that anyone interested in buying something with original labels will be able to tell they aren't original.

Like Controlfreak said though, no matter what you do, unless it's a big watermark, it'll be easy enough to edit out for anyone determined to do so I wouldn't spend a bunch of time worrying on it.


----------



## Mosquito

I agree, a small 2020 or sign it sansoo2020 or something somewhere since you made them. Like Smitty said, won't stop people, but why make it easy?


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, work your name or initials in there too Sansoo. No reason not to have your name preserved for posterity ;-)

For anyone that will use these labels, there's a good article over on Don W's site on applying them to stay and not deteriorate.


----------



## Lazyman

> I'm about sick of hunting for a fence for the 45. I have the correct one but I want one with the micro adjust for useability. Anybody have an orphan to sell? I passed on one Mos has that had a repair because I want a "pretty" one. I may end up going back to him for his ugly orphan though…
> 
> - HokieKen


What would you consider a good price for one? Just curious.


----------



## HokieKen

A price I would pay? $15. I dunno if that's a "good" price but it's the one I'm looking for ;-)


----------



## Ocelot

plus $50 shipping?


----------



## Ocelot

Here 'ya go!


----------



## HokieKen

LOL. I'll pay actual shipping ;-)

I saw that ebay listing. Too bad it's only half!


----------



## sansoo22

Just sent Ken the rest of the labels I have done

3 versions of a "manufactured by" label
3 cutter box labels
1 giant sized sweetheart logo as a bonus cuz i had to make it for the cutter box labels


----------



## Lazyman

> Here ya go!
> 
> - Ocelot


 He might have more interest if he spelled Stanley correctly. It didn't show up on my searches.


----------



## garethmontreal

Mjd tool parts has a micro adjustable fence for about 100 usd including shipping (to Canada mite be less to the states) for sale on eBay. The one people have linked to seems weird to me but I'm no expert.


----------



## garethmontreal

https://www.ebay.com/itm/114311982838

Here's the listing. Just to be clear I'm not endorsing it or suggesting you buy just letting you know it's out there.


----------



## sansoo22

Thats a decent deal on the fence here in the states as shipping is free. I've bought more than a handful of parts from MJD Tool Parts and haven't been disappointed yet.


----------



## garethmontreal

I'm very jealous that mjd shipping is free in the us they have every obscure part you could need. to pricey for me in Canada with shipping being minimum 45 bucks no matter what.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I m very jealous that mjd shipping is free in the us they have every obscure part you could need. to pricey for me in Canada with shipping being minimum 45 bucks no matter what.
> 
> - garethmontreal


That's because the "free shipping" is only free as far as the international shipping program depot. Once it's processed (paperwork, duties, etc) it is shipped on from there but we pay for it. I know; it sucks. But if we want something up here we need to really watch the additional fees.


----------



## sansoo22

^^^ how about learning to be flagged as spam instead


----------



## controlfreak

> ^^^ how about learning to be flagged as spam instead
> 
> - sansoo22


I clicked on similar in another thread. He is getting a little better at blending in by not mentioning "plans". I gotta remember to not click on a link before looking at how many post a member has.

I like the idea of sneaking your name or initials in the label somewhere.


----------



## Bluenote38

> The biggest difference is that it s a little fatter and a lot rounder (no flat spots) than the original.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


Kenny - how did you get the handle off in one piece? I think mine has a rivet(?)


----------



## Mosquito

You can try tapping out, or drilling out the brass pins, but it often ends up breaking anyway, especially in the planes where the pins don't go all the way through

Kenny didn't, I have proof  lol


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, what Mos' said Bill. That's my handle in the photo. I tried drilling the pins out but then when I was trying to work the handle off, it broke clean. That's funny Mos. I remember sending you the knob off of mine but have no recollection of sending you the tote too.

If you're making a new handle anyway Bill, I wouldn't worry about it. Just take a chisel and split the old one off. Split it clean and in a pinch somebody could glue it back together and use it. I'm guessing that's why Mos wanted my broke one.

If you just want to re-finish the handle though, leave it on the plane. It's way less trouble.

If you are making a new one, this blog post may be helpful. The key takeaway being to make certain you cut the kerf that will "hug" the metal web while your wood is still square. Then use the bottom of the kerf to align your old handle to sketch in the shape. Also, the pins are completely unnecessary with modern epoxies. Because of how you hold it and the direction of force being applied, the pins serve no real purpose other than keeping the wood from falling off. Plus, IMO, it looks better sans pins.


----------



## HokieKen

> https://www.ebay.com/itm/114311982838
> 
> Here s the listing. Just to be clear I m not endorsing it or suggesting you buy just letting you know it s out there.
> 
> - garethmontreal


Thanks Gareth. But that's almost what I paid for my #45 complete including the cutters. I can't bring myself to pay that for a fence ;-)

While I was thinking about the fence last night, I had an idea to make a simple micro-adjust attachment that would attach to the rods. Basically like a carriage stop on a lathe but a lot less refined and a lot smaller ;-)









Stay tuned. It'll probably only take me 12-18 months to get around to actually making one.


----------



## Bluenote38

OK that's pretty much what I figured.


----------



## controlfreak

I spotted a pretty good looking Stanley 45 locally for $75

I think I may have to offer $50 to see what happens, should I?


----------



## theoldfart

Depends on what's missing, there are a lot of parts and some are not used all the time so they get misplaced. Put up a pic if you can, see what Mos thinks.


----------



## garethmontreal

I have a PDF of an instruction manual for a stanley 45 from the sweetheart era that has a full parts list and diagram of where they all go if that'll help. I dont know how to post it in its current format unfortunately but ill try and print it out and scan as image files so i can post them like photos.


----------



## garethmontreal

I m very jealous that mjd shipping is free in the us they have every obscure part you could need. to pricey for me in Canada with shipping being minimum 45 bucks no matter what.

- garethmontreal

That s because the "free shipping" is only free as far as the international shipping program depot. Once it s processed (paperwork, duties, etc) it is shipped on from there but we pay for it. I know; it sucks. But if we want something up here we need to really watch the additional fees.

- Kent
[/QUOTE]

thats for sure learned that the hard way with a 45 in wood case i got from the uk. Shipping + customs was basically the same price as the plane and cutters. A Bought a couple others for about 80 bucks each including cases and cutters and had them shipped (free) to a friend of mine in the UK now they are on the slow cheap boat across the atlantic as gifts.


----------



## garethmontreal

> Ah, yeah Kenny, they re the "partial type studies" that still exist. I m working on one myself, but it s still a ways out, I m afraid. Just have pictures taken, edited, and uploaded for a few types
> https://www.mosquitomediaserver.com/projectLogImages/45TypeStudy/
> 
> The good one from tooltrip is gone, but I ve got it saved, so I may try to re-upload in part
> 
> EDIT: Which I ve just done:
> https://www.mosquitomediaserver.com/projectLogImages/45TypeStudy/tooltrip/%2345%20Type%20Study.html
> 
> - Mosquito


Just thought id add that the type 7 (or at least the one I have) has the s casting marks on it like other stanley type 7 period planes. I also have 45 fence with a b casting mark used on stanley type 8s


----------



## controlfreak




----------



## controlfreak

I already have one so this isn't a pressing need but I have developed a case of plane ODO. (Order Dis Order)


----------



## BenDupre

> I have a PDF of an instruction manual for a stanley 45 from the sweetheart era that has a full parts list and diagram of where they all go if that ll help. I dont know how to post it in its current format unfortunately but ill try and print it out and scan as image files so i can post them like photos.
> 
> - garethmontreal


Garet are you able to share that here? I would very much love to see it thanks

Ben


----------



## garethmontreal

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10XGPi5XfWWgRvA1BCy6j1H1DfmexeOTH/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10_wpFzTouutQrZfqsd6EDZ5oUlbyxENZ/view?usp=sharing

the first link is to pdf for the stanley 55 instructions and the second link is the 45

Also to give credit where its a i just want to add the the Stanley 55 was converted to PDF originally by Stan Faulin (I dont know he is put is in the PDF) not by me. I dont know who converted the 45 instructions originally i just found them in some corner of the internet.


----------



## controlfreak

Thank you for the 45 instructions!


----------



## Mosquito

Buy it, if nothing else you can sell it to Kenny for the fence ;-)

Though two things you'll want, a locking screw for the main depth stop, and optionally a locking screw for the micro-adjust fence.

Otherwise it's missing all the usual parts, slitter+stop, the optional skate depth stop, beading stop, cam rest, but many of those are rarely used by most people anyway. I'd try to get it for less than $75 if possible, $50 would be a great deal, $60 would be reasonable. $75 isn't terrible either, but never hurts to try 

And yeah Gareth, that type study was just a partial. I'm hoping to put together a much more comprehensive one in the future. Whenever that is…

And I swore I had those same PDFs posted somewhere, but I guess they're not linked in my OP for this thread. I've got them in .png, .svg, and .pdf format (and they are huge), scanned from some booklets that I have in the collection


----------



## HokieKen

You link the manual in the first post of your blog series which you linked in the OP of this thread Mos 

And I'd buy the fence off that plane CF  But only the fence and I'm pretty cheap…


----------



## garethmontreal

> You link the manual in the first post of your blog series which you linked in the OP of this thread Mos
> 
> - HokieKen


well that explains where i got them from thanks Mosquito for putting them up in the first they incredibly helpful.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, Mos' shares what he has gareth. But he likes to make you work for it ;-)


----------



## garethmontreal

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/david-stanley-auctions/catalogue-id-srdav10050/lot-035866d7-e1fe-45c0-b832-ac0100aad6db

I came across this and thought of the people looking for missing parts. Mite be worth pooling resources as they are gonna a lot of spares parts from it. There's even a set of hollows rounds in the mix.


----------



## Mosquito

lol why make it easier, we're hand tool users, after all… we already know that we don't take the easy road out ;-)

I'll try to get them both cleaned up and consolidated down


----------



## theoldfart

Tempting, I could use the 55 left fence. But international shipping is not cheap.


----------



## garethmontreal

Shipping won't be cheap I'm thinking about because you mite be able to make your money back on selling the parts but that's also a big time investment. And you don't even know what it's actually gonna sell for because it's an auction.


----------



## ac0rn

Well, I went out to the shop looking for something in old family boxes. Didn't find what I was after, but came across this old 45. At the moment there are just too many demands on my time to do a restore of a plane that will not be put to use. So for a much later date, should I give it a liberal spray of Kroil oil now, seal in a ziploc, and back to storage? It should help for later, but would it hurt long time?


















The box it was in, was packed during my parents move in the 70's


----------



## sansoo22

If it were me I'd get a small plastic tub and some silica packets to toss in it. You can get like 50 of them for 10 bucks off amazon. Break it down into its parts and oil it before storage. You don't have to worry about anything getting stuck that way and you can better keep the oil off the wooden parts. I know it's a little more time involvement but it's what I would feel safe doing.


----------



## HokieKen

I've never known Kroil to cause any issues but I've never used it that long term before. I have left things soaking for 3-4 weeks with no adverse effects. I don't really know if Kroil is gonna do any corrosion prevention though. Sansoo's method is the better one. I'd probably give it a liberal coating of CRC-336 or some other inhibitor before I packed it away too.


----------



## PhillNLeBlanc




----------



## controlfreak

I put in an offer of $50 but at a listing time of 9 months I suspect it is a zombie listing.


----------



## Lazyman

> https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/david-stanley-auctions/catalogue-id-srdav10050/lot-035866d7-e1fe-45c0-b832-ac0100aad6db
> 
> I came across this and thought of the people looking for missing parts. Mite be worth pooling resources as they are gonna a lot of spares parts from it. There s even a set of hollows rounds in the mix.
> 
> - garethmontreal


There are many lots in that auction that could be great bargains if you can afford the shipping. There are literaly dozens of lots with multiple hand planes. If you wanted to open (or have) an antique tools store, It would probably be worth a plane ticket plus a few thousand bucks to fly over and buy as many of them as you can. Here is a nice looking 45 & 55 set:


----------



## Lazyman

A week after the Record 405 I bought on eBay UK was marked delivered, the USPS finally tracked it down and recovered it. They delivered to the right house number on the wrong street (they wouldn't tell me where). Not sure how they figured that out but it showed up with only minor injury to a couple of the glued on pieces in the box that came loose. A little hide glue and they'll be fine. I have to give them credit for tracking it down after my wife stopped by the post office. 
To my rookie eye everything seems to be there and in working condition - no rust and the wood handle, knob and fence are good. I don't think it needs any renovation or repairs.


----------



## Mosquito

Glad they tracked it down Nathan. Looks great from here


----------



## DavePolaschek

Looks like it was worth waiting for, Nathan!


----------



## Lazyman

It was, Dave and it actually arrived before the estimated delivery date. The annoying thing is that it arrived in the area 3 weeks ago so could have arrived a long time ago. That's probably even worse for you guys than it was for me, since you've had to hear me whine about it.

BTW. I just noticed that the little black thing inside the box in the picture above are a couple of extra nickers held in place with a thumbtack.


----------



## theoldfart

Nathan, welcome to the Record club. Now go out and get the other set of cutters, the four sets of H&Rs and the Nosing cutter!

Just trying to help


----------



## Lazyman

Thanks Kevin. I actually have been looking around for the acce$$orie$ but they are pretty rare, as I am sure you know.

One little quirk I just figured out. The 1/8 bead cutter was just laying the bottom of the box and when I tried to fit in the box, the box is about 1/32" too small for it to fit. I finally noticed that the there is a some fine print on the internal label that says that the 1/8" bead cutter is mounted in the plane. Really? They couldn't add another 1/32" so that all of the cutters will fit in the box? I may get a file and make it fit.

BTW, except for the local PO dropping the ball, eBay's Global shipping through Pitney Bowes, from England anyway, worked very well. I would certainly do it again for the right item. There seems to be less competition or maybe more supply over there which makes the higher shipping costs doable.


----------



## theoldfart

Nathan, the set I have came in a vinyl pouch. The extra set was loose. I have an artist pencil case that holds all of them. The two H&R sets fit in the box with the plane, getting it all in is like a Rubics cube puzzle.


----------



## Lazyman

I've noticed those on eBay I assume those are later models? I've also seen at least one with the cutters in canvas sleeves as well but maybe that was a homemade fix.


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, I think the plastic is a later setup.


----------



## Lazyman

Where has this been all my life. So easy.


----------



## theoldfart

Kinda fun isn't it.


----------



## Mosquito

I have no idea how many random scrap boards I have with T&G edges, random grooves, beads, moulding, etc around the shop because I decided to take it out "Just for fun" :-D


----------



## sansoo22

Anyone got some pointers on removing the rear handle or the threaded rod that the cutter attaches to? For the rod i'm guessing the pin that engages the cutter needs to come out first but want to verify before i go monkey paw this thing around. And the handle is pinned on one side so guessing drill but again would like to verify before I do dumb things.


----------



## donwilwol

> Anyone got some pointers on removing the rear handle. And the handle is pinned on one side so guessing drill but again would like to verify before I do dumb things.
> 
> - sansoo22


https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/12/02/i-need-to-remove-the-handle-on-my-old-stanley-45/


----------



## Lazyman

> I have no idea how many random scrap boards I have with T&G edges, random grooves, beads, moulding, etc around the shop because I decided to take it out "Just for fun" :-D
> 
> - Mosquito


LOL! Fortunately, this one is actually something I was noodling around with when the plane finally arrived. I was literally staring at this board thinking if only I had my plane, I could cut this groove with it instead of using a router when my wife walked into the shop with package. I am actually prototyping an integral cabinet hinge based upon Shipwrights box hinge approach. None of the commercially available hinges I have found will work as I need them to so I am going to test this idea to see if I can make it work on my lathe tool cabinet.


----------



## sansoo22

Thanks Don W. I will be using that tutorial out tomorrow


----------



## controlfreak

I was going to try my 45 to make the rabate on the end of my board for dovetail practice. I had never changed the blade and knew that I must loosen it before adjusting or changing. That's when I noticed the retaining piece to hold the wing nut was missing. I can use a little tap or force to loosen the blade locking piece and get but it is going to bug me. I haven't formally looked up the name of it but if anyone has one to sell PM me or post here.


----------



## HokieKen

> Anyone got some pointers on removing the rear handle or the threaded rod that the cutter attaches to? For the rod i m guessing the pin that engages the cutter needs to come out first but want to verify before i go monkey paw this thing around. And the handle is pinned on one side so guessing drill but again would like to verify before I do dumb things.
> 
> - sansoo22


I drilled the pins out on mine but still ended up breaking it when I was removing it. Mine was exceptionally dry. I decided to make a new one anyway though so it wasn't a big loss. If I had wanted to, I could have glued it back together easily - it was a clean break. I made a new one with a little different shape and I'm really flad I went that route. I highly suggest it if you aren't picky about keeping it original.









There's an entry in my blogs on making the tote and knob if you're interested.


----------



## sansoo22

Thanks Ken. I marked your blog post as a favorite. I already planned on a new tote and i have no knob so I guess I need to make one. Which means I need to finish restoring the shop smith, learn to turn, and make a knob. The 45 I'm working on, in between other planes, is the same type as yours except my fence only has 45 stamped into it.

BTW you did a fantastic job on your restoration.


----------



## Bundoman

My 12 y.o. daughter practicing plowing grooves in Poplar for a drawer bottom on her game board project for 4H 2020 using a Stanley 46. She was skeptical but agreed to try this. She liked the result.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Sansoo, it was a fun restoration to do. It's a fun plane to use and it has some attractive features too. So it was fun to polish it up 

I bought some long rods that are oversized and are a tight fit in my 45. They're too tight though. They fit all 3 pieces individually but when you put all 3 together, it binds and makes it harder to adjust. Just a word of warning if you see them on ebay. The claims that they remove the slop are legitimate. But that isn't necessarily an advantage since the centerlines on the 3 pieces may not be consistent enough to make that an advantage.

Looks like I'm gonna turn down the rods that I bought because I was too lazy to turn them myself to begin with…


----------



## rad457

New one showed up? Stamped Jan. 22 - 95. Had to make a knob for it as didn,t notice it was missing on the listing. Thinking it was Cocobolo, sure did stink! Diameter was a little small so made it taller


----------



## Ocelot

Hey it's great you got your daughter into the shop! I hope to get some of mine in there eventually (4 daughters).

But… if she takes up power tools, she'll for sure need to tie her hair back!

Long long ago, my Dad was a high school shop teacher. He told the story of one boy who came to the prom (wearing a tie), got bored or dumped or something and just walked down to the school shop to work on something. He was using the bandsaw when his necktie got into the blade. As the blade is moving down, it was trying to pull his face into the saw. He was able to push off (while being strangled) until the tie broke or was cut. I'm sure he never forgot that experience.

-Paul


----------



## HokieKen

Okay boys and girls… Anybody else here in need of a set of cutters for a #46 plane? I'm going to be making myself a set and I've decided that since it's a whole set, I'm going to set up my mill and machine them rather than grinding in all those skews and bevels by hand. So it wouldn't be a ton of extra work to make additional sets if I know how many to make up front.

My "set" will probably be 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 3/4" and 1" but I could make additional sizes if you need something specific. I'm not going to fool with any tongue cutters. Just trying to gauge interest before I actually get to doing these. I'll make them from 1/8" O1 tool steel that I'll harden and temper. The bevels will be rough ground in (flat ground) but you can do your own final sharpening. Just post here or PM me if anyone's interested and we'll talk about price. I'm not sure what it will cost at this point but I guarantee it'll be less than buying a set on ebay!


----------



## Mosquito

> I m not going to fool with any tongue cutters.
> 
> - HokieKen


Is that a decision you came to on your own, or was it influenced by me having not sent the measurements over yet that I promised? LOL

I haven't been in the shop for a week, except to grab some tools to use working on a basement re-finish finally


----------



## Lazyman

Now I wish that I had bought a 46.


----------



## HokieKen

LOL. It's not because I need measurements Mos. I just don't need the cutter. I have a 45 and any T&G I'd be likely to cut with a hand plane would be with the grain so I don't see the need to have the capability with the 46 as well. Especially since the chances of me actually using it are pretty much nil ;-)

It's never too late Nathan! You can actually get the planes fairly cheap without the cutters. The cutters are what drive the price up.


----------



## HokieKen

LJ drsurfrat made up some type study sheets for Stanley planes based on John Walter's book. There's a nice one in there for combination planes which is probably the most comprehensive I've seen online since the ones Mos' linked in the OP aren't really type studies and the one that was has disappeared.

He posted a link to a dropbox folder over in this thread this morning. The type studies for bench, block, combination, router and Bedrock planes are there in condensed pdf format based on Walter's book. I asked his permission to share his sheets and he granted it.

Mos, you want to put a link to it in the OP? I dunno how long he intends to leave the dropbox folder there but I can put a copy of the 45 study in my google drive folder that has the repro labels and you can link it there if you want. Or maybe host it on your site if you want. Just let me know if you want me to put it in my folder.


----------



## bandit571

Seems someone is asking, via a new thread…about the rods for a Stanley #45….wanting to know how short to make a pair…and how long to make a set…..MOS to the rescue?


----------



## DLK

> Now I wish that I had bought a 46.
> 
> - Lazyman


 Buy the cutters now. And save for a 46 !


----------



## drsurfrat

+1 Don K, get a set of cutters, do the easy part later.


----------



## tshiker

Hey HokieKen, I would be interested in a 3/4" cutter seeing as the original sets didn't come with one. Just let me know what I owe you and I'll pay upfront.

Thanks
Tom.


----------



## HokieKen

I'll add you to the list Tom. Just FYI, St James Bay Tool Co. sells a single 3/4" cutter on ebay for $20+ shipping. Mine will be a little cheaper but that one's available now while mine will be done… well whenever they're done ;-)

I'll add you to the list and whenever I actually get to where I'm ready to make chips, I'll reach out with the price and make sure you still want it. Could be a couple months though so I don't want any $ until I'm ready to ship.


----------



## Lazyman

BTW Kenny, where are you going to (did you) get your O1 steel from?


----------



## HokieKen

I have some I bought off ebay Nathan. If I end up needing more, I'll buy it wherever it's cheapest at the time.


----------



## Mosquito

> Seems someone is asking, via a new thread…about the rods for a Stanley #45….wanting to know how short to make a pair…and how long to make a set…..MOS to the rescue?
> 
> - bandit571


Depends on what you need, and what you want to do. If making your own, just make whatever you want. Stock sizes were 4.25" and 8.25" for the non-threaded style, if that's what they were asking.


----------



## controlfreak

> Stock sizes were 4.25" and 8.25" for the non-threaded style, if that s what they were asking.
> 
> - Mosquito


Now I have to measure mine and see what I need to start looking for, it never ends.


----------



## tshiker

Great! I'm in no rush Kenny, just give me a shout whenever.


----------



## controlfreak

I have the 8.25" rods so now my life is incomplete until I get a set of 4.25" rods. While I was measuring I got around to installing the replacement wing nut retainer bracket that locks the blade. That was much easier to get then I would have thought. I still have a wing nut and a blade locking nut that it threads onto if anyone is in need.


----------



## Mosquito

there's no need for a set of short rods, as you can do the same tasks with the long rods, but having the short rods is nice if you'll be doing a lot of work with the fence very near the plane and don't want the extra stick out of the long rods


----------



## HokieKen

I have the short rods but have never used them. I keep the long ones on there all the time. The stickout doesn't bother me personally. However, I haven't built a box for mine yet either. I could see the short rods being more convenient if you plan to store the plane assembled.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Patrick's selling full set of 45 H&Rs for cheap this am…


----------



## Mosquito

If you work holding is conducive to the long rods going over it, you can also move the long rods so some of the excess is on the right (non-fence side).

I think it also says something about the historical use that probably 90% of the planes I've seen that are missing 1 set of rods will usually have the short rods be the missing set


----------



## Mosquito

I saw that Smitty, and was almost tempted… But I've got my eye on something else at the moment, and trying to preserve the bank account for it lol


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I saw that Smitty, and was almost tempted… But I ve got my eye on something else at the moment, and trying to preserve the bank account for it lol
> 
> - Mosquito


I stumbled at that entry too, for the same reasons.


----------



## ac0rn

Finally found one of the old boxes that I was looking for…Fulton D5329 that was my Dad's, though I don't ever remember seeing him use it.































































From what I could find, manufactured between the fall of 1927 and spring of 1928


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Wow, very nice!


----------



## donwilwol

That's a really nice Sargent made Fulton!


----------



## Ocelot

@HokieKen, I don't have a 46, but if you could give a ballpark price, I might be interested in a set of those blades. Thanks for offering them.

-Paul, tool and lumber collector.


----------



## HokieKen

Gorgeous Jeff


----------



## Ocelot

@HokieKen, I don't have a 46, but if you could give a ballpark price, I might be interested in a set of those blades. Thanks for offering them.

-Paul


----------



## HokieKen

I was in the shop last night putting some finish on a pen so while I was waiting between coats, I decided to get a jump on the 46 blades.

So I had measured all the angles on one of the blades that Mos' sent me to use to get all the measurements from. But, measuring angles is always a pain with small, thin parts. So I decided to go a different route.









So I just clamped Mos' blade up the way I intend to hold the steel I'll be using to make mine and used an indicator to set the angle of the edge bevel. So, I dunno what that bevel angle is but I know it'll match Mos' cutters from St. James Bay and I know those cutters seat properly in my plane so I should be good to go


----------



## HokieKen

> @HokieKen, I don t have a 46, but if you could give a ballpark price, I might be interested in a set of those blades. Thanks for offering them.
> 
> -Paul
> 
> - Ocelot


After looking at what the steel will cost me and probable time I'll have invested, I'm gonna say $15 per individual blade (as long as it's one of the sizes I'm already making) or $70 for the set of five.

And FWIW, I'm tempted to grab this set from St. James Bay myself and wouldn't blame any of y'all for doing the same. At $100 for 8 blades, I just can't match their price unless I make a much larger batch of these things. And I ain't interested in doing that. Honestly, the only reason I'm not more inclined to buy their set is because (a) I don't need all those in-between sizes and (b) they don't have a 3/4" blade in there. That seems so silly to me…


----------



## controlfreak

> I have the short rods but have never used them. I keep the long ones on there all the time. The stickout doesn t bother me personally. However, I haven t built a box for mine yet either. I could see the short rods being more convenient if you plan to store the plane assembled.
> 
> - HokieKen


If the long ones don't seem to bother anyone I think I will just polish the ones I have to make them easy to remove when I make my box.


----------



## controlfreak

> Patrick's selling full set of 45 H&Rs for cheap this am…
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Sorry if I am dense but what are H&R's ?


----------



## HokieKen

They don't bother me CF. But I don't use my 45 all that often so take it with a grain of salt…

H&R = Hollows and Rounds


----------



## drsurfrat

Hollows and Rounds

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan6.htm
about 3/4 down the page

OK, so now tell me what the partial radius is used for… The nosing is a full half round, but the hollows and rounds only form part of the arc.


----------



## Mosquito

they're used like hollows and rounds of old. The wooden ones. Used for moldings with out having a dedicated profile


----------



## Ocelot

@HokieKen, I was thinking the same re St. James. You might soon regret offering to make them! I'll pass. If I ever decide to get a 46, I can look to St. James and let them make a few dollars. They aren't getting rich selling those I don't think.


----------



## HokieKen

Nah, I'm making my own anyway Paul just because it does save me a lot of money and I like making my own stuff ;-) But yeah, the St. James set is a better deal than I can offer if you want all those sizes and don't care about a 3/4" blade. And no, those guys ain't getting rich. If they are, I'm making a career change ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

They might not be getting rich, but they're also not spending much time on them either I don't think. I was not impressed with the set I got, unless things have improved since then. Actually sent the first set back, because the bevels were so far off (some had 1/8" flat spots on instead of an edge), and there were voids in the steel making small pin hole blemishes in the back of some of them. Maybe some can overlook, but at the time I was sandpaper sharpening in my apartment shop, so I didn't have the means to deal much with hardened steel that far out of whack, which is why I spent the money on the new set. Thankful that the option exists, as I've made them work, but just don't want to mislead people in to buying the St James Bay sets expecting ready to run irons.


----------



## HokieKen

From looking at the two you sent me Mos, and I checked the actual cutting widths and they were dead on. Which is pretty good since you have to account for the compound angle of the skewed edge and the skewed bedding angle. All in all though, those 2 look pretty well made aside from the hollow ground bevel on the 1-3/8" blade. I don't like hollow grinds on plane irons but that's a matter of preference I guess.


----------



## Mosquito

I'll send you the other ones  As a woodworker, I couldn't send a fellow woodworker anything other than my good irons  Which is also why I sharpened them up before sending them lol

The second set were a fair bit better than the first ones. Width wise they seemed fine, it was just the execution of the cutting bevels and material defects that annoyed me. Like I said, maybe things have improved since then, that was 9 years ago, I'm not sure. But if I were to purchase again, I would do so not hoping for or expecting something like a LN, Veritas, Hock, or IBC iron where it's just hone and go


----------



## HokieKen

I did notice they didn't clean up the forge scale on the beveled edges after they hardened them. Seems kinda lazy but it doesn't really hurt anything either. I could definitely tell you had sharpened these two because of the nice polished flats surrounding the rough hollow in the center of the bevels.


----------



## Mosquito

I did have an old picture of the irons as received, namely the cutting edges. And no, those aren't micro bevels lol


----------



## HokieKen

Yikes.


----------



## KentInOttawa

ControlFreak - another good video on H & R: Roy Underhill


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Good video, Kent. Thanks for posting that link!


----------



## KentInOttawa

After watching that video, I have absolutely no desire to try any H & R work with a 45. I think the repeated reconfiguration would kill any enjoyment quite quickly.


----------



## HokieKen

> After watching that video, I have absolutely no desire to try any H & R work with a 45. I think the repeated reconfiguration would kill any enjoyment quite quickly.
> 
> - Kent


Ditto. And I haven't even watched the video…


----------



## bandit571

Hmmmm..









Tote busted off about 1" above the body….wedges for the arms are MIA…not sure what that is ahead of the brass thumbscrew…

that "trans" is sitting on top of a second body….I think I might have bought that #4…..or maybe it was from another stall…


----------



## Mosquito

Kent, Why do you think I have so many #45s? :-D
The good news is, there's only 4 sets of H&Rs, so 8 #45s should make it so you never have to change bases


----------



## KentInOttawa

Mos - I figure that a half-set of 18 H & R would still take up less space. Even in the new shop, I'll be hard-pressed to allocate enough space for 8 set-up 45s.


----------



## garethmontreal

If anyone is looking for a cheapish 45 type ward master plane into ebay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233705115922


----------



## bandit571

There IS a second one…$10 + $15shipping, with one hollow base…front knob is MIA….


----------



## garethmontreal

got this in the mail today





































It's a 55 (my first one) and a mostly complete set of cutters. Needs a fair bit of cleaning and oiling but I'm up for that. Finally moving intoy new place over the next couple of weeks. Most excitingly it has room to set a proper workshop.

I'm not sure if the 55 is complete but I'll find down the check list as I clean and oil it bit if anyone notices something I'm missing I'd being eternally grateful if you could give me a heads up. Cheers, Gareth.


----------



## theoldfart

I don't see the slitter and the tower is missing it's shoe.

Edit: think I found it. It's attached to the center section.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> got this in the mail today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if the 55 is complete but I'll find down the check list as I clean and oil it bit if anyone notices something I m missing I'd being eternally grateful if you could give me a heads up. Cheers, Gareth.
> 
> - garethmontreal


Not something missing, but a VERY nice added bonus. In your picture, you can see the gizmo for tripping/releasing the front latch on a Stanley mitre box. It can also be seen attached to a saw in this picture:










It's a small piece that normally goes missing from the Stanley boxes, like the 358 I have that is also missing that piece.


----------



## theoldfart

Kent, I missed that. Great bonus and good eye.


----------



## bandit571

> There IS a second one…$10 + $15shipping, with one hollow base…front knob is MIA….
> 
> - bandit571


I just got out bid on this one….didn't need a second Monkey wrench, anyway….the Hollow's base did not have it's cutter….

was more interested in the main stock…mainly for the working nicker…..
Oh well…


----------



## garethmontreal

> Not something missing, but a VERY nice added bonus. In your picture, you can see the gizmo for tripping/releasing the front latch on a Stanley mitre box. It can also be seen attached to a saw in this picture:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It s a small piece that normally goes missing from the Stanley boxes, like the 358 I have that is also missing that piece.
> 
> - Kent


Cool thanks for catching that. I was wondering what it was for. If your missing it I'd be happy to send it to you.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Cool thanks for catching that. I was wondering what it was for. If your missing it I d be happy to send it to you.
> 
> - garethmontreal


PM on the way :-D


----------



## Mosquito

Gareth, that's an awesome find. And +1 on the great bonus for the miterbox trip, those are very frequently missing for many people lol


----------



## Peteybadboy

Can you tell me more about this Stanley 45? Thanks in advance.


----------



## HokieKen

Based on the SW trademark, it's either type 14 or 15 made somewhere from 1922-1935 Petey. Looks like a fine example!


----------



## Mosquito

Type 15 based on the heart not being inside/over the notched rectangle


----------



## DonBroussard

I quit watching this thread when I sold my '45 a few years ago. This weekend, I picked up a new-to-me Stanley 45 at an antique store in Leslie, AR. The shop owner had it marked as a Type 4, and it looks accurate to me. It is marked "PAT 11-84" and is before Stanley added the mechanical iron adjustment. Can anyone confirm that the Type No. is accurate?


----------



## garethmontreal

Looks like a type 3 or 4 I think but I'm no expert.


----------



## HokieKen

Don - that looks like a type 3 with the wrong finish…

Type 3 had the knurled screws on the fence to lock it on the rods, type 4 would have had winged thumb screws.

Type 3 had the wing nut on the slitter, type 4 would have had the flat, oval-headed thumbscrew.

However, type 3 would have been japanned and type 4 would be nickeled.

So, call it a type 3.5 ;-)


----------



## Peteybadboy

Hokie and Mosquito,

Thanks for that info. I am not using the tool, I did one or two operations. Thus I plan to sell it. Would you have a pall park on its value? I watch ebay, so I may have a clue. Shipping is a killer.

It is amazing how much you know about this tool! I do want to put it in good hands.

Thanks again.


----------



## HokieKen

It's too late of a model to be highly collectable Petey. But, it appears to be complete and in really good shape so it should be an excellent user plane. Mos' knows better than I but I'd ballpark it around $150-200 with that original box.

Don't let the Ebay list prices fool you. Look at completed and sold listings to see what people are actually paying vs. what people want to sell them for.

If that box will fit in a large Flat Rate Box, you can ship it for $22 or so.


----------



## Mosquito

Don, it looks like a Type 4 to me.

Kenny, I haven't found any reference to them having flat oval thumb screws for anything until Type 7 when they redesigned things a bunch and went to the knob on the fence, is there something I'm missing?


----------



## HokieKen

I was just going by the "cheat sheet" I linked a couple of weeks ago Mos. It says the slitter was changed from a wingnut to a steel thumbscrew for type 4. That may be inaccurate though.


----------



## DonBroussard

Thanks for the discussion and speculation of my '45. It was very helpful!


----------



## drsurfrat

As DonW has said more than once, Stanley parts were used up as they assembled. It's probably a type 4 with a leftover wingnut, or replaced with whatever someone in the 20th century had. I don't think anyone went to the trouble of nickel plating a japanned piece after the fact.

You're gonna sell it? It is probably 130 years old, and you can hold it in your hand… I think I have excessive separation anxiety when in comes to old tools.


----------



## DonBroussard

Drsurfrat - I am not planning on selling it. I have a full set of more modern irons (with the notch) so I'll be putting this piece of history back to work.


----------



## drsurfrat

Don, Sorry, I mixed your comments up with Petey's.

I can't seem to get the hang of plows (No's 45, 46, 55 and 50), I usually end up having to fix things with chisel, which clearly does not go well and negates the purpose of the plane. A man's gotta know his limitations.


----------



## HokieKen

The key with the 45 for me is not setting the iron too deep and scoring the edges before plowing on cross grain cuts. It's definitely not a "grip it and rip it" plane. It requires a little foreplay.


----------



## drsurfrat

I will have to keep at it, patiently, on scrap…

Scoring - isn't that what the nickers are for? Although I have never tried to sharpen mine, it doesn't seem practical.


----------



## theoldfart

drsurf, drag your plane backwards once or twice. This will allow the knickers to score your stock before you start to plow.


----------



## rad457

> The key with the 45 for me is not setting the iron too deep and scoring the edges before plowing on cross grain cuts. It's definitely not a "grip it and rip it" plane. It requires a little foreplay.
> 
> - HokieKen


LOL! reminded me of when I got my Scratch plane, talk about a learning curve


----------



## KentInOttawa

A slitter for a 55 (?) just popped up on the FB "Can I have it?" tool trading group. Does anybody need one?


----------



## garethmontreal

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Stanley-Sweetheart-45-Combination-Plane-With-Blades/114404017580?pageci=67381534-eea8-43be-86fe-03c5d1798c50

Looks like some one had fun with some spray paint.


----------



## HokieKen

> A slitter for a 55 (?) just popped up on the FB "Can I have it?" tool trading group. Does anybody need one?
> 
> - Kent


Slitter for 45, 46 and 55 are all the same? If so, I could use it for my #46 if it's a donor. It's not something I'll probably ever use but I wouldn't be opposed to completing the plane either


----------



## Lazyman

Anyone familiar with Hollows and Rounds by Whitejacket

It showed up in an eBay search.


----------



## drsurfrat

Wow Lazyman, a Partridge Family Revival. We are all old farts, I bet everyone will know that reference.
...ye ye yah yah…


----------



## KentInOttawa

A couple of weeks ago LJ garethmontreal was sharing photos of his new 55 here. Included in his new purchase was an unrelated item that I identified as the trip clamp for a Stanley mitre box saw. That part has now found a permanent perch atop the saw for my 358. Thanks, Gareth.










It's the first time that I've ever received mail addressed like this ;-)










'tis a good day for me.


----------



## Ocelot

> [...]
> 
> LOL! reminded me of when I got my Scratch plane, talk about a learning curve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Andre


I have one of those too. I played with it a bit, but I found the 66 much easier to use.


----------



## theoldfart

Guess iv'e had my head in the sand( or somewhere else)

Never saw this before


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Guess iv'e had my head in the sand( or somewhere else)
> 
> Never saw this before
> 
> - theoldfart


Or perhaps you weren't willing to see how far down modern tools have slipped. FYI, there's even a model below that: the 13-030

Edit: Paul Seller talks about them here.


----------



## theoldfart

I've been down enough slopes, I'll pass.


----------



## controlfreak

and that vintage plastic tote looks in mint condition.


----------



## theoldfart

^ flagged


----------



## Mosquito

yeah, blocked right away this morning too

And on the 13- Stanley planes, I have been tempted to pick up an 050. I've handled them a few times at MWTCA meets, but haven't pulled the trigger yet. There are some things I like the idea of, for some of them. Like the dual locking depth stop, and the more easily adjustable spurs. But again, haven't tried one yet


----------



## 33706

I've never seen a #50 with a wooden tote. Did such a thing exist? My #050 looks terrible with that flesh-tone grip.


----------



## garethmontreal

> A couple of weeks ago LJ garethmontreal was sharing photos of his new 55 here. Included in his new purchase was an unrelated item that I identified as the trip clamp for a Stanley mitre box saw. That part has now found a permanent perch atop the saw for my 358. Thanks, Gareth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It s the first time that I ve ever received mail addressed like this ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tis a good day for me.
> 
> - Kent


Looks good happy to see being put to good use.


----------



## tshiker

Yeah, I have a 50 with a wooden tote, it's also japaned. I'll try to post a picture tomorrow.


> I ve never seen a #50 with a wooden tote. Did such a thing exist? My #050 looks terrible with that flesh-tone grip.
> 
> - poopiekat


----------



## bandit571

Random Plane Photo…









This is actually quite fun to do….


----------



## Mosquito

what, grooving or just using a #45 in general?  
There are times I just go take a random combo plane and start using it on scrap for no reason lol


----------



## bandit571

needed a few grooves done..









Seemed a shame to just leave it boxed up…


----------



## DavePolaschek

Groovy, Bandit. ;-)

Got my combo plane out of the box today and then realized I botched the order of operations so I don't have an edge to index from if I want to hold onto the piece I need to put a groove into. Set everything down and worked on another project for a while, and just now figured out my workholding so I can put in the groove I should've done before making two of the edges round.


----------



## bandit571

Am trying to think of a way…to use it to round over a few ends..









The outside would be easy enough, with just a block plane….the inside? sides are 1/2" thick….not sure IF a beading cutter would work…...and get it to stop in the corners…


----------



## DLK

^ Rasp or file?


----------



## Lazyman

Radius carving gouge?


----------



## bandit571

Plane…chisel..









And the only gouge I have in the shop









I guess that will just have to do…


----------



## tshiker

Sorry it took me so long poopiekat, life got in the way.












> Yeah, I have a 50 with a wooden tote, it s also japaned. I ll try to post a picture tomorrow.
> 
> I ve never seen a #50 with a wooden tote. Did such a thing exist? My #050 looks terrible with that flesh-tone grip.
> 
> - poopiekat
> 
> - tshiker


----------



## tshiker




----------



## 33706

> - tshiker


Now I want one with a wooden grip!


----------



## bandit571

Had an "Issue" today…the #5 cutter, a 1/4" tongue cutter….refused to cut….would just hop about, barely making anything close to a 1/4" tongue….in Ash…..even on the Sample I was using to set the plane up with….

Might need to sharpen it, sometime…..would rather not have it just sitting around…..tried all sorts of depth settings…either it didn't cut…or it just dug in….badly…

Hmmmmm….

Photos?









Bevels look like they had been hollow ground once…


----------



## 33706

> - tshiker


Thanks, tshiker!!


----------



## tshiker

My pleasure poopiekat! Always willing to show my stuff!


----------



## garethmontreal

Hello all im going to start working on a couple 45s and a 55 soonish and I was wondering whats the best way to safely remove rust with out damaging the nickel plating.

Cheers, Gareth


----------



## HokieKen

If there's rust, it's pretty likely that the Nickel plating is just hanging on by a thread Gareth. I'd start with some mild scotch-brite and WD40 and see how it goes. If you have to resort to wire brushes/wheels, they're probably going to take some of the Nickel off with the rust. Chemically, I've used phosphoric acid and while it doesn't remove the nickel, if rust has worked its way under the plating, it will flake off. The acid will also leave an oxide layer making bare steel darker so beware. Evaporust should be a safe bet but I've never used it personally. And electrolysis may work but since nickel plating is an electro-deposit process, I'm not sure. Sandblasting with a mild abrasive is a pretty safe bet too. But there's still a danger of some being removed.


----------



## Mosquito

I also sometimes use those nylon abrasive wheels too, or a scotch bright pad. The Nickel plating is usually pretty tough as long as you don't go crazy, and there's no underlying rust. Whatever mild abrasives take off in cleaning was likely to come of anyway


----------



## garethmontreal

Cool thanks guys I really the super fast and totally comprehensive answers. Ive actually got some evaporost sitting in a tub needing to be used right now I'll probably give that a shot with one of the 45 fences (probably the one in the worst shape) and check every ten minutes or so. If that's a no go I guess it'll be maroon scotch brite pads and simply green. I'm pretty have going near them with a power tool tbh. Thanks again I'll let you know how it goes. Here's a pic of the 55 it has a quite a bit of nickel left under the dirt. The 45 do to actually now i look at them again.


----------



## HokieKen

The nylon wheels Mos' mentioned in a drill press make quick work of surface rust with little risk of removing any of the plating. I also like the nylon and brass wheels in my Dremel tool for cleaning up sections like the floral detail in the castings.


----------



## garethmontreal

Ok I'll have to get some nylon wheels im pretty sure I don't have just soft felt ones. I also need to pick up the used drill press a bought like a month ago thanks again guys.


----------



## garethmontreal

Hi there just wanted to let you know the evaporust didnt seem to cause any problems with the nickel plating. I tried on a couple small parts and it went well so ill try it on a couple more befor i give it a go on the bodies. Thanks again.


----------



## garethmontreal

I there quick question. I'm assuming removing the knob on the fence or the rose wood fence itself when cleaning a 45 or 55 is a bad idea especially the fence. Im asking because if it is in indeed a bad idea I'm not going to use evaporst on the fences or any other parts with wood because I don't want to dry it out or mess up the finish on the wood. Cheers Gareth


----------



## controlfreak

I see people taking the fence off to "true: it up if in bad shape. I don't see why taking fence off would cause a problem.


----------



## garethmontreal

Thanks for the quick response Control freak. My concern regarding the fence was that since the are attached with screws taking it off on trying to screw back on could strip the existing holes making it loose and unstable potentially. I get paranoid taking apart certain parts of tools when working on them since the first saw I 'worked' on I undid the split nut and totally mangled the threads on one. I ended up having to rethread the screw and make a new nut to fit it. I don't wanna the same kinda mistakes again. Thanks again much appreciated.


----------



## HokieKen

Gareth, taking the knob off the fence may or may not be a bad idea. On some types of the 45s, the knob is simply threaded onto coarse threads cast into the fence. Give the knob a little CCW twist and see if it comes off. If it won't thread off, it's just pressed on IIRC but will likely split when you remove it.

Removing the Rosewood fence piece will be fine. When I remove woodscrews like that, I dribble a few drops of CA glue into the threads and let it cure before I put the screws back in. That will harden up the wood around the threads and wick into any small stress cracks that may have formed. Another trick, if you do have threads that are already stripped is to stick a toothpick on one side and trim it flush. That will give the screw something to bite into.


----------



## garethmontreal

Hokieken thank you very much good sir. One of the knobs clearly has o screw in it so I'll remove that guy the other definitely looks just stuck on so I think I'll leave it be. Thanks for the tip on the wood screws just a quick clarification by CA glue do you mean carpenters glue or something else?. Thanks again


----------



## controlfreak

Good info here. I pick up a Stanley 45, my second, on offer up for $50 two weeks ago. Really strange woman had it posted for months in a town 30 miles away but we just couldn't connect. It is in good condition but will need some de-rusting. I'll post some pictures this weekend.


----------



## HokieKen

Gareth - sorry, CA (cyanoacrylate) = super glue  The other knob you have there may be threaded onto the post. That's what I meant when I said try giving it a CCW twist. I forgot that some of the types had a screw securing the knob. Like so:


----------



## garethmontreal

Just wanted to express my thanks to Hokieken for suggesting those nylon wheels. I ordered some for my Dremel type tool they arrived a couple days ago and they are a revelation thanks man!!

I finished working on the 45 before they arrived but I'm using them other tools with great satisfaction.

Here's how the 45 came out.




























I've haven't much time to use it yet but I did get a couple test passes and passes and got my first shavings with it.


----------



## Lazyman

Gareth, Can you share a link to the nylon wheels for the Dremel that you bought? Most of the one's I've see are pretty pricey, compared to brass wire wheels for example, especially assuming that they may not last all that long being so small and turning at such high RPMs.

I'm working on cleaning up a 46 and discovered yesterday that about half of the rust is actually rust colored grime that is slowly coming off with a small stiff plastic brush. I've worn out the small brush I have and a new one and some simple green or something to see if that speeds things up.


----------



## garethmontreal

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07MLZBJ73/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_AlNVFbQ50E9DW?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Sure no problem. I tried them with wax, WD 40 and simple green. Wax seemed to me to be the worst and wd40 the best. I hope it help. I've burned through a few already but it was worth the time saved by hours.


----------



## HokieKen

Well done Gareth 

Nylon will be slower than brass in most cases Nathan. It's just less abrasive for fragile parts or when you're trying to preserve Nickel plating or other surface treatments. In my experience, Simple Green is safe for anything you come across and is an excellent presoak for grimy pieces.


----------



## garethmontreal

Speaking of brass dremmell brushes can anyone send me a link to some descent ones. I've bought two different kinds one kind disin integrated as it touch anything and the other was just brass coated and scratched things horribly.


----------



## Lazyman

Thanks Gareth. I actually just bought that same set of wheels and tried them yesterday. My only complaint is that they don't get into the detail of scroll pattern of my 46 very well which is why I resorted to the stiff brush. I was thinking about some of these but I was worried that at over $6 per wheel it would be pretty pricey if they don't last long. Supposedly last longer than the brass ones.

Thanks Kenny. I use Simple Green for soaking my bandsaw blades when they get gummed up with sap cutting green wood but I am out and just squirted some Windex before scrubbing. It helped but I figure that the Simple Green should work much better based upon how well it works on the bandsaw blades. WD40 didn't seem to help dissolve this grime at all. I did end of soaking some of the parts in Evaporust. It does a great job of removing the rust but left a yellow-green haze over the remaining plating that has to be scrubbed off. Scrubbing that off is actually how I discovered that rust color grim was coming off with scrubbing.


----------



## garethmontreal

I have the same issue with them as well. That is a draw back i briefly tried increasing the pressure hoping to get in but was showered with nylon bits and it didn't get any cleaner. Im also considering bgettjng the kind you linked but am worried about the price vs quality issue. I've bought a frustrating amount of stuff to work on tools that turn out to be expensive garbage already. If you get them let me know how they work out please.


----------



## Lazyman

I had the same experience with the brass brushes. You have to use a light touch and even then the wires break off fairly quickly and about half of the wires wound up embedded in the fabric of my shirt (wear eye protection). I kept wondering what was irritating my skin before I noticed a couple of fine wires sticking out. I bought these to try and they last a little longer than than the brass ones and seem to work well enough. You can stack more than one on an arbor. I am skeptical that the different colors on this set are actually different grits though. Looking at the different grits under magnification, they all look identical other than the color and so far cannot detect any difference while using them either. 3M makes some that under magnification you can see embedded grits but they are pretty dang pricey too.


----------



## garethmontreal

Thanks for the advice I'll try the radial discs. I took a look at the 3m vetsion they even more expensive vs the generics version then usual. I have a love hate relationship with 3m yes there products are lot better then the genetic version and also way more expensive. That said I'm starting to increasingly notice that the period of time where they are working well is keeps getting shorter. And when they ends they are at best marginally better then generic ones in the same condition. For instancei bought a roll of burgundy scotch bright pads that work great for a few minutes anf now I just piles of half used burgundy pads that aren't in bad enough shape to through but aren't in good enough tshape to not take forever


----------



## Lazyman

BTW, if you do get those radial discs, note that if you don't pay attention and put them on so that the fingers slope backwards to the spin, they break apart almost immediately, according to the reviews.

I've got an unorthodox restoration question for the group. My wife has a tube of silver Rub N Buff that she uses for craft and decorating projects. It appears to be carnuba wax with a metallic pigment. It occurred to me that this might be a good way to both protect and get a uniform color that resembles the old nickel plating that remains so I put a little bit on an area of the 46 where I removed the rust and it actually sort of looks like the remaining plating. I figure the wax will help protect from future rusting while also giving a more uniform appearance. I am a little worried that it might rub off as you use it. It sounds like the you have to buff the hell out of it set it so that it doesn't rub off. I figure I can always remove it with a solvent if I have to. What do you think? Anyone ever tried that or something similar? I don't want to leave bare metal where the nickel is gone but don't want it to look like I painted it either. Any other ideas? My original plan is to leave the patina alone and just wax it.


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, got the fence and the tower shoe for the 55.



















Is there a source for dating the 55's?


----------



## Mosquito

nice Kev, now it's complete again 

I've not found a good type study for the 55 available online yet, but would love to find out if someone knew of one


----------



## drsurfrat

I adapted this (pg5) for the No55 from the details of the 45 of the type study from Walters book:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zkvj2rzshg3akxo/Stanley%20Combos%205%20Type%20Sheets.pdf?dl=0

Maybe better than nothing.


----------



## Mosquito

better than nothing, but I've got the #45 types down pretty well, and that's basically overlaying the #45 types for the #55's, I don't believe 55's were around until the type 7 #45's? Maybe the trademarks line up from then on for typing/date range, and we can go off of that?


----------



## drsurfrat

Yes, nothing special. And according to Patrick Leach's pages, 1897 (7B) was the first No55.
I haven't done enough digging to find out if all the parts were available from the start (like the nosing tower). And I don't have oodles of 55's to check like you and DonW and Sansoo…

Just opinion, but there are enough common parts and design motifs with the 45 that I really don't think it warrants a separate type study.


----------



## Mosquito

I would agree that the date ranges probably line up pretty well and a lot of the other features likely too. I would just be interested to see the differences type to type in the #55 like we can with #45's


----------



## drsurfrat

Well, I only have one, so that doesn't do well for a pictorial collection


----------



## bandit571

There is a fellow over on SMC that is offering a way to print out labels for both the #45 and the #55….plus the labels for the cutter boxes….a Mr. Denton I believe is his name…

Might be worth looking into?


----------



## HokieKen

There's a link to a google drive folder at the end of the OP that has reproduction labels that Sansoo made Bandit. Is there something different being offered on SMC?


----------



## Mosquito

I'm down to two Mike, since one just went to Kevin lol It was a big step to get rid of a combination plane for me :-D


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, how ya fixed for 46's? )


----------



## Mosquito

just got one now, my second #46 ended up at Kenny's about the same time the #55 went your direction lol


----------



## HokieKen

I have the same amount of 46's as Mos' does ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

I'd be somewhat lying if I said I wasn't looking at #46's on eBay shortly after I sold you that one Kenny lol

The one I kept was an older type with no separate fence casting (it attaches to the movable skate)









The one I sold Kenny was the newer version that looks similar to a type 5 Stanley #45, with a separate fence and movable skate. That one I didn't use as much, but if doing anything wider, was nicer than the older version, as I could have the second skate for stability (it doesn't do anything to support the blade, so that doesn't much matter)


----------



## bandit571

Making some Pho noodles, today..









Might be a tad crunchy…..getting that groove thing going..









#12 cutter, set to 3/16" depth…


----------



## KentInOttawa

> #12 cutter, set to 3/16" depth…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bandit571


It's nice to see someone else use a combo square as a depth gauge. I was starting to think that I was the only one.


----------



## Mosquito

definitely not Kent, that's my go-to for setting depth on it, unless I'm trying to match a board thickness or something, then I just use the board.

Though I usually measure from the blade since that's where the bottom of the groove stops, not the skate, but that's just a minor accuracy thing that's likely not important 9 out of 10 times


----------



## KentInOttawa

Mos,

in this exact instance, I'm always torn between an exact measurement and not touching metal-to-metal with the blade and the square. I always come away feeling "dirty" somehow but still get accurate enough results.


----------



## Mosquito

I guess I don't usually worry about it since I don't push too hard, but it's definitely something to consider


----------



## theoldfart

Had a casualty today with the 45.










First time using it and it broke with the first twist of the thumbscrew! Guess that's why they changed the design.

Was doing this










Above the window trim on the railroad car. Amazing what water damage over 120 years can do


----------



## bandit571

My 45 had helpers today….









Running rebates….#71-1/2 to clean back into the corners of the rebates….even had to rotate the spur up out of the way..









After the cross grain ones were done..









Long grain ones were the areas the router plane helped out on….and yes, the 45 was in use today, as well…









Needed grooves to house the rebates, after all…









Working on a lid, for a box….


----------



## Mosquito

RIP Kevin's cam rest… won't lie, half the time I don't know where mine is, I rarely use it. The style you have is more convenient (no screwdriver needed), but the other design does seem to hold up better. I've never bought a plane with the other style broken, but have seen quite a few of those broken


----------



## HokieKen

Braze that round bottomed baby back together Kev ;-)


----------



## DanKrager

Would silver solder be as strong? It would be less conspicuous, though not hidden, which is never a good idea on vintage repairs.

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

I'm not sure whether silver soldering or brazing would be stronger but I'd solder it myself. Cause I've only brazed a couple of times and it looks about like my welds…


----------



## tshiker

Otf,

I have a spare kicking around somewhere. PM me your address. If you want it, it's yours.

Tom.


----------



## theoldfart

Tom, thank you. PM on it's way


----------



## drsurfrat

oldfart - keep that stupid thumbscrew! It's Stanley, so probably oddball threads, and it just might be useful in a No 80 scraper.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…OEM box..with label….









USPS had used the box as a Football…..Aussie League?

Vs the ones I used on the replacement box…









Hmmm… a bit "off"....logo on the 45 itself is a SW Made in QUE. CAN.


----------



## sansoo22

Getting ready to use the 45 for the first time tomorrow…well on a project that is…I've goofed off with it enough to understand all its workings. Is there any tips or tricks I need to know about sharpening the iron? It looks pretty straight forward but figured I'd check before I mess any of them up. I'm the first user of my late model 45 so all the irons still have the factory grind.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Honestly, with few exceptions, the only thing I've done consistently to plough irons is work the backs. Once flattened and polished, the cutters work exceptionally well (in my experience). YMMV.


----------



## rad457

Sharp helps a lot and watch out for grain direction and knots And small bites to start off!


----------



## sansoo22

Thanks for the pointers. I will polish the back and take shallow passes. Luckily the stock I'm using is knot free and super straight grain. Should be good wood for my first run.


----------



## HokieKen

So, how'd it go Sansoo?


----------



## theoldfart

This rolled in today



















Type 7, late 1890's, 1893-96. Beautiful floral casting. All that's left is a 444( in a perfect world!)

Mos, thanks for the help.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice Kev  I like how the slitter is positioned to ensure a bloody knuckle or two. Looks to be in pretty darned good shape.


----------



## theoldfart

Ken, you must hold yours backward! 

It is in good shape, everything moves well.

Does anyone have an original box from this period?


----------



## HokieKen

> ... All that s left is a 444( in a perfect world!)
> 
> ...
> 
> - theoldfart


It's your lucky day Kev! Merry Christmas ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Why thank you Ken. I'll treasure this moment for the rest of my life. Can you ship to my home? I really do appreciate the gesture.

;-)


----------



## drsurfrat

Your No 46 seems to be a type7, 1892-1896

That would have had one of the lime green labels, *before* this:









J.Walter says this was in use 1905-1925 (type 6)
Since this is pasteboard, I guess they didn't use wooden boxes til later?

Jim Bode has a No 45 about that time period:









It has a wooden box…


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Mike. I just bought a hard bound copy of the Stanley catalogues from the 1800's, I hope to find some illustrations from that time.


----------



## Mosquito

I'd be curious to see what you find Kevin. I've not seen #46 boxes other than the later pasteboard boxes similar to what Mike posted above.


----------



## Ocelot

> ... All that s left is a 444( in a perfect world!)
> - theoldfart


... of each type. (presuming there are multiple types of 444)


----------



## theoldfart

^ it's possible, just have to tell the kids no inheritance!

Mos, the 1879 catalogue does not show a box.


----------



## Mosquito

Wait, you're not planning on passing down your tools?


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, sad to say no one I the family has shown any interest. I hope the youngest may come around, just have to wait and see.


----------



## Ocelot

> Mos, sad to say no one I the family has shown any interest. I hope the youngest may come around, just have to wait and see.
> 
> - theoldfart


Just forbid him ever to work on wood and he'll do it for sure!

-Paul (Dad of 6)


----------



## theoldfart

Ah, the voice of experience.


----------



## HokieKen

You've always got me Dad.


----------



## Mosquito

lol Just because they may not use it doesn't mean they can't inherit it


----------



## 33706

Mitutoyo C-clamps, anybody? When things fall into disinterested hands, I mean.


----------



## controlfreak

I am a little old for adoption Kevin but we are talking tools here. Before I go down this road, how big is the lawn and do I have to cut it? My grass already kills most of a day of what could otherwise be shop time. More grass could be a deal breaker.

Funny story of when I had my boys indentured to cut the grass. The younger would always get up early and cut the good parts. The older would get stuck cutting the dogs minefield. He was very animated and looked like he was stomping his way through. The younger one says "ha ha you got stuck with the dookie patch". The older one says "Its okay, I was wearing your shoes".


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> ... All that s left is a 444( in a perfect world!)
> - theoldfart
> 
> ... of each type. (presuming there are multiple types of 444)
> 
> 
> 
> - Ocelot


At least two that I know of.


----------



## theoldfart

How do they differ?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I had a number of side by sides, but deleted them recently. Only difs included patent dates and script styles.


----------



## theoldfart

Started making a home for the new to me 46. Roughly same size as a 45 box but will include a more fitted interior.



















The plane is supposedly a type 7 so no rosewood fence. A fence showed up for $15 so I gave it a shot and it fits and works fine.



















Hopefully it'll be done tomorrow.


----------



## rad457

Hey is that what Chestnut looks like?


----------



## HokieKen

No Andre. This is:


----------



## theoldfart

Andre, I wish it were. Just plain ol' oak.


----------



## rad457

> Andre, I wish it were. Just plain ol' oak.
> 
> - theoldfart


Sorta looks looks like the same Oak as my #45 Box?


----------



## theoldfart

My 45 is earlier and the box is chestnut. I'll post a side by side when I'm done, gotta have time to hide a few things. ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Anyone have a cutter box for the 46? I'm looking for dimensions, both internal and external, I left room for one in the box I'm making.


----------



## Mosquito

I have a non original one that fits everything but the tongue iron (including Kenny's 3/4" iron)

Outside
10-1/8" Long, 1/2" thick
Bottom 3-1/8" tall (1/2" left on bottom, 3/4" on sides)
Top 1-1/2" tall (1/2" left on top, 3/4" sides)

So I suppose that makes the internal dimensions about
8-5/8" wide, 3-5/8" tall with the top on it, with the slot in the middle being 1/8"


----------



## Mosquito




----------



## theoldfart

Mos, thank you.


----------



## Lazyman

Did the 46 cutter boxes originally come with labels?


----------



## theoldfart

I have no idea Nathan, none of the catalogues up til 1898 or so show the cutter box. A few of the 1880's catalogues mention cutter boxes for 45, 46, 47, and 55.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I have an original bottom that has a Moss created top. The dimensions are 5" high, 10" wide.


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, are the latches original? Also a couple more pics, one of the inside and one of the end please?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yes, I believe so.


----------



## theoldfart

Thank you Smitty. 
I think I can use my kerfing plane and Roubo frame saw to make this box. Certainly worth a try.


----------



## tshiker

Yeah Kevin the latches are original. I have a complete box. Let me know if you need pictures or measurements.

Tom.


----------



## HokieKen

I did some googling back when I first got my 46 and never found any examples of labels for the cutter box so I assumed they didn't have any. Which seems odd since you can't hold it up to a scale to see what size it is since the blades are wider than the path they cut.


----------



## theoldfart

This is what's commonly known as overkill.










Then this










Just to make a box lid!


----------



## drsurfrat

Just ran across this looking for No46 cutter labels - fascinating, at least to me.

https://eaiainfo.org/2019/10/22/there-is-a-stanley-no-145/


----------



## Mosquito

Kev, did that require 2 cuts, or was a single kerf wide enough for the irons to fit in?

I had seen that a while ago Mike, pretty neat indeed


----------



## drsurfrat

no surprise, line Kenny found, no labels on an internet search. This one kinda clinches it at least for its era, just a strip of tape with the gothic Stanley on it (ca 1910-1925):


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Just ran across this looking for No46 cutter labels - fascinating, at least to me.
> 
> https://eaiainfo.org/2019/10/22/there-is-a-stanley-no-145/
> 
> - drsurfrat


I also found it interesting. I especially liked the insight into the origins of the Stanley numbering system.


----------



## theoldfart

Got a kick out of seeing Rufus K Dorns name in there.


----------



## theoldfart

Resawing the top is done.



















I had fun!


----------



## drsurfrat

That was a pit saw! Where did you get the blade?


----------



## Mosquito

Roubo Frame Saw kits from two places I know of, might be more out there I don't

http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/kpfs.php

http://www.blackburntools.com/new-tools/new-saws-and-related/roubo-frame-saw-kit/index.html


----------



## theoldfart

Mine is a Blackburn. 48" and it eats wood quickly.


----------



## HokieKen

Plus, if you do cardio, you can get your day's steps in walking it through the cut!


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, the kerf is not wide enough for the cutters. I plan on using PSA sanding strips on an old saw plate to finish the kerf.


----------



## controlfreak

Love that frame saw! 
Curious though, do you start the cut with that saw or do yo start with something else?


----------



## tshiker

TOF














































Hope this helps.


----------



## theoldfart

ControlF, go back up to my post 3085 above, you'll see the kerning plane i used to make a 1/2" deep cut to start.

Tom, thanks.


----------



## HokieKen

Is your kerfing plane all wood Kev? I've never seen a cast iron one but your's looks like there may be some surface rust on it?


----------



## theoldfart

Ken, all wood except the saw plate. The body is ash and it's my work. The vintage fence was bought from Josh at Hyper Kitten and is beech, box wood and rosewood. I bought the plate from Isaac at Blackburn tools. He was supposed to have a fence kit at some point but it never happened.


----------



## controlfreak

> ControlF, go back up to my post 3085 above, you ll see the kerning plane i used to make a 1/2" deep cut to start.
> 
> Tom, thanks.
> 
> - theoldfart


I see it but don't understand it from that angle. I don't see where any type of cutter is. Google isn't much help either. I was asking because it looks like an aggressive saw that could be a chore to start


----------



## HokieKen

Here's a good blog from Bob Summerfield (not to mention a gorgeous kerfing plane) CF.


----------



## controlfreak

This is very interesting, I learn something new every day!


----------



## theoldfart

ControlF, I'll put up a pic shortly.

46 box is done, 45 box is next to it.




























White oak sides and red oak top and bottom.


----------



## theoldfart




----------



## HokieKen

Well done Kev! Box looks great.


----------



## tshiker

Nice box and nice kerffing plane! Its on my things to do list!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Congrats, Kevin. Job well done, I'm sure it feels good! And it's functional to boot!


----------



## rad457

Dang, got to build me one of them Kerfing planes/saws, not sure why or for what but really like it!
Whats with those dove tails, I was told they had to be finger joints and wood to be Chestnut?


----------



## HokieKen

Kev's a real rebel Andre.


----------



## bandit571

Sometimes…it was even…..Poplar (GASP!)









Opened…









Cutter holders were built into one end..









Just a few dados, couple of plywood slats…









original Stanley box on top, my rebuild on bottom…..


----------



## theoldfart

Structurally DT's are a stronger joint and if I had chestnut it would not be toolbox.


----------



## HokieKen

Wonder what I can do with these pieces of tool steel?









Maybe send some to Kev to gauge the gap size in his box? ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

I think I'll add a edge bevel first so they don't cut Kev.


----------



## theoldfart

Sweet Kenny.

I have the same light on both of my hand crank drill press's.


----------



## HokieKen

I might like those lights a little bit…


----------



## DavePolaschek

Great job, Kevin!

Andre, they're pretty easy to make. Get a piece of saw plate (there's a $20 induction-hardened saw at Amazon I like for quick and dirty tools) and a chunk of wood and you're nearly done.

https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/394009 was my fixed-fence 3/4" from the edge kerfing plane.


----------



## DanKrager

Question on kerf plane. I can't detect from the pictures how any teeth but the first one do any cutting. It doesn't seem to be the same cutting action as a handsaw which introduces each tooth to a full cut. Like the sled pulling Husky said in an interview, "The view never changes unless you're the lead dog." So how do the teeth behind the first one get to cut?

DanK


----------



## Mosquito

It's just a saw. Same principle, just holding the blade a different way.


----------



## bandit571

Let's see….saw a Stanley #45 today….had one cutter installed, the 2 rods, and a fence….no depth stops, no sliding stock…$125?

Saw a Craftsman "78" clone by Sargent…..fence and arm on wrong side of plane…spur was there…no depth stop….$45…

A Stanley #4-1/2 was "just" $225 + tax…..way beyond my $100 budget for today…..


----------



## HokieKen

About 40% of the milling done on the batch of 46 blades


----------



## theoldfart

Just spent a couple of hours sharpening a 46 match cutter with a factory grind, what a chore. There was some pitting on the back near the edge. Kenny's look a hundred times better.


----------



## Mosquito

Kenny's are better than my St James Bay Tool set too…


----------



## HokieKen

BTW Kev, I had a little extra steel so I added a 1" cutter to the list.


----------



## theoldfart

Make sure you up the price then.


----------



## HokieKen

Up it? I'm doubling it! (Just kiddin ;-))

Progress was made this morning. These are ready for heat treat.









Just have to mill the bevel into the rest and they'll be ready for heat treating. I'm gonna send these to a buddy with a furnace for hardening. It would take me way too long to do them one at a time in my coffee can forge. Should have them done and sent to him by the end of the week. Figure a week turnaround (if USPS is kind) and a couple days to do the finish grinding. Hopefully I'll have finished blades ready to ship in 3 weeks.


----------



## Lazyman

Those are looking pretty sweet, Kenny.


----------



## theoldfart

Damn good looking metal work Kenny, looking forward to using them.

Will they be engraved with my personal logo? hehe


----------



## HokieKen

Is your personal logo a flat piece of steel Kev? If so, yes ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

How'd you know?


----------



## HokieKen

Here's a full set fresh off the mill with your logo on em Kev ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Sitting around, waiting on a coat of primer to cure…film at 2300hrs….


----------



## HokieKen

I'll have to catch it in the morning Bandit, I'll be sawing logs by 2300 I think.

I have no need for it so I'll throw it out here in case anyone's on the prowl for a #46. This one is mostly complete other than a wingnut and has a bunch of cutters. It'll likely get bid up quite a bit but might still wnd up being a bargain for somebody.


----------



## theoldfart

They look just fine Kenny.

That is a nice 46.


----------



## controlfreak

Okay, what is the difference between a 45 and 46?


----------



## theoldfart

46 cutters are skewed edge, 45 cutters are straight edged. Also fewer cutter options with the 46.


----------



## HokieKen

> Okay, what is the difference between a 45 and 46?
> 
> - controlfreak


One.


----------



## theoldfart

^ ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

Dang engineers.


----------



## HokieKen

You sound like my wife.


----------



## Mosquito

> I have no need for it so I'll throw it out here in case anyone's on the prowl for a #46. This one is mostly complete other than a wingnut and has a bunch of cutters. It'll likely get bid up quite a bit but might still wnd up being a bargain for somebody.
> 
> - HokieKen


Hey, I was watching that one!


----------



## HokieKen

Oops. Sorry Mos :-/ Hopefully I didn't give you any undue competition!


----------



## Mosquito

lol no worries, I think I was just watching…


----------



## HokieKen

Well, there are several other people just watching too so it'll get bid up I'm sure. Blades alone sell for well above the opening bid…


----------



## rad457

I was watching one last week, real crappy blades, went for $280.00 U.S. so not to me
Did buy a Record #50, mostly for the Crappy wood box Dang you Mos, see what have enabled!


----------



## Mosquito

I recently got a Marples M44, which has made me want a later model Record 044… I'd trade an 043 for an 044, as I seem to have ended up with 3 of those lol


----------



## HokieKen

Is this an 044 Mos? If so, and if you don't need the cutters, looks fairly well priced even with shipping compared to others currently listed.


----------



## Mosquito

That is an 044 Kenny, and one of several I'm keeping an eye on  Not my first choice, as I was looking for one with the depth adjustment


----------



## HokieKen

Gotcha. And don't blame you. I was looking at my 46 yesterday when I was working on the blades pondering how I could add a depth adjuster to it. I might have to see if I can snatch a cheap body somewhere and experiment without swiss-cheesing my only one.


----------



## HokieKen

My MF85 (78 equivalent) has convinced me that I don't like metal totes. I'll be looking for wood handles when it's an option


----------



## Mosquito

I sort of agree, but the wood tote versions of 50's are not what I want functionally lol

One very strange thing I noticed when using it, was that the skates always get warm when I use a combo plane, #45, #55, #46, whatever. But with the Marples I actually noticed it while I was using it. I could feel the metal tote getting warm, it was odd


----------



## drsurfrat

I ended up gluing in some scales to my craftsman No 78 Rabbet. It had recesses instead of a full found metal handle. feels much better.

I have an almost complete No46, with some extras. Someone mentioned (I think) that there was one without a blade-capture bolt. I have an extra if needed - and a couple of the big cutters as well (the stuff on the cardboard). Maybe you can see in the picture:


----------



## HokieKen

Nice Mike. I didn't know they made a Sash cutter for the 46. Not that I would ever use it but it's the first one I've seen.

Mos' complained about me not stamping the size on the 46 blade I made him. So I decided to stamp this batch. Kev, you wanted your logo so I added that while I was at it.


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, awesome.

Also, what sash cutter?

Dr. Surf, where'd you get the 46 box label?


----------



## drsurfrat

I made it on Avery sticky back label paper. I will see if i can find the file.

I have two tongue cutters for the 46. I will never use it/them, I can't even cut a decent groove with my No50.


----------



## HokieKen

Nevermind. I saw the match blade laying out and thought the one in the box was a sash cutter. I zoomed in and see it's another match blade.

How does the stop work on that guy? Do the bottom and sides have angles milled to accoung for the skew?


----------



## HokieKen

Kev, was just joking about the logo ;-) I am gonna stamp the sizes though just to aggravate Mos.


----------



## HokieKen

Mike, I'd buy those two extra cutters of you want to sell em. I'll probably never use them so I wouldn't put the effort into making them but I wouldn't mind having them for just in case ;-)


----------



## drsurfrat

Sure Kenny, I have your address, so I will just send them and you can decide how much they are worth. The big solid one is 1 11/16 wide, so I imagine that makes a 1.5" cut.

The tongue cutter depth stop is at an angle.


----------



## garethmontreal

Quick question Im looking at this type 1 (i i always wanted a type 1) but it look si dont know off. I know its missing a couple parts but its more the fact it looks to shiny. Like maybe its been painted? I actually wouldnt care if it was painted its more the seller hasnt metioning anything abouot and if it has been painted and their revealing that fact i dont want to buy from them. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I actually wouldnt care if it was painted its more the seller hasnt metioning anything abouot and if it has been painted and their revealing that fact i dont want to buy from them.
> 
> - garethmontreal


Personally, I wouldn't be too concerned that the seller didn't mention the paint. IME, many sellers don't know much about the tools that they're selling or the history of the tools. Yes, I would check the condition to see if it's hiding something but I tend to assume ignorance before I assume ill intentions.


----------



## drsurfrat

Yea, that's been painted. There is no way that the pitting on the skate could happen and keep shiny japanning. Does look spiffy, tho

It might be a frankenplane. The fence didn't come with rosewood until type 6 (~1895). But maybe it was added by a user, can't tell from the pics.
Also very hard to tell, but floral ivy and the lack of "No45" would make that part type 1. Some of the earlier type 1's did not have slots in the thumbscrews.

-all according to Walter's typestudy


----------



## Mosquito

Definitely been painted, and also not a type 1. It's a Type 2 with a owner modified fence. The Type 1 fence didn't have 45 or Stanley cast in to it, whereas the one you're referencing does. Also, type 1 didn't have slots in the brass thumb screws.

I find that the other telltale sign that something was refinished is the tote and knob are both heavily clear coated, and the detail in the rest of the casting is just not there. When planes are spray painted, the details get flattened out and it loses a crispness.

Type 1 Fence:










Type 2 Fence:










That eBay Fence:


----------



## drsurfrat

Kevin, I made it up from old No45 labels. (the 46 never had a blade depth adjuster as Kenny pointed out) I saved the file on dropbox so you can download it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8t44rrskqdzvwcl/No46%20fake%20label_4844.jpg?dl=0


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Mike. I kinda want to make a label and a cutter label, just for fun… been a while since I've done something like that lol


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Mike, I'll settle up with you on the cutters when they get here 

This is the only 46 label I've ever seen:









Stanley must have blown their packaging budget on the 45.


----------



## theoldfart

That's my assessment Kenny.

Thanks Mike.


----------



## HokieKen

You bidding Mos? If you aren't, I'm gonna roll the dice.


----------



## garethmontreal

Thanks everybody i appreciate it. And kent i agree with you i dont like to jump to conclusions either but the the sellers sells a lot of tools. Currentley thetes a Stanley 71 with 3 cutters sale repaint and varnish as the 45 among others. I also checked there sales 47 stanley planes or plane parts since mid November and each one looks like painted and varnished this one. 1 or 2 or 3 id chalk up to hapenstance but 20 odd planes and which make up the vast majority of their plane sales seems like a strategy.


----------



## garethmontreal

But i should be clear that the seller didnt list as a type 1. It was just listed as Vintage Stanley Rule & Level Co No. 45 Combination Plane


----------



## HokieKen

Well, it went higher than my lowball limit but not by much. Somebody got a good deal on that one!


----------



## Lazyman

Kenny, there is a 100 1/2 on ebay (ends at noon CST) Unfortunately, it's tail has been brazed back on.


----------



## theoldfart

That was a good deal on the 46.


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny, there is a 100 1/2 on ebay (ends at noon CST) Unfortunately, it s tail has been brazed back on.
> 
> - Lazyman


I know. There's already one on the way to my house though ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

I did not bid on it Kenny, I decided since I've got a full set of new irons I'll see if I ever come across a screaming deal on a stand alone plane (I also weighed the thought that it wasn't that long ago that I sold my later type #46 to some knucklehead on this website, and I'm not willing to admit sellers remorse yet  )

Though truth be told, I think I'm just "in a mood" and looking at a lot of tools on eBay right now. Nothing I really need but mainly looking at fun-to-have/collection things. Now that the saxophone is bought, I know how much fun money I have left over lol


----------



## Mosquito

> Thanks everybody i appreciate it. And kent i agree with you i dont like to jump to conclusions either but the the sellers sells a lot of tools. Currentley thetes a Stanley 71 with 3 cutters sale repaint and varnish as the 45 among others. I also checked there sales 47 stanley planes or plane parts since mid November and each one looks like painted and varnished this one. 1 or 2 or 3 id chalk up to hapenstance but 20 odd planes and which make up the vast majority of their plane sales seems like a strategy.
> 
> - garethmontreal


Agreed, they know what they're doing. They don't say it's re-painted, but don't say it's not, they just say "As shown". Based on the pitting that you can see on some of the skates, I'm sure it will bring more money now than whatever condition it was in before, so I'm not knocking that, I just don't like it, personally


----------



## HokieKen

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I feel absolutely no buyer's remorse Mos ;-)

I didn't go after it because all I could really think to do was take the blades I didn't make and part the rest out. And I don't like to do that because in the long term, it drives up prices. So I'll stick with the knucklehead special I already have ;-)


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Thanks everybody i appreciate it. And kent i agree with you i dont like to jump to conclusions either but the the sellers sells a lot of tools. Currentley thetes a Stanley 71 with 3 cutters sale repaint and varnish as the 45 among others. I also checked there sales 47 stanley planes or plane parts since mid November and each one looks like painted and varnished this one. 1 or 2 or 3 id chalk up to hapenstance but 20 odd planes and which make up the vast majority of their plane sales seems like a strategy.
> 
> - garethmontreal


I'm glad the more knowledgeable folk stepped up on the typing details.

It sounds like the dealer doesn't know much but does know that shiny and/or clean sells. Spritz-spritz=ching-ching.


----------



## drsurfrat

There should be 2 more blades coming your way if i can get to the PO


----------



## garethmontreal

I say paint away if you want its your plane and you like it that way. But as you point out the seller is clearing choosing their words very carefully. I guess technically they arent lying buy in my eyes is knowing deceit by omission with the goal of duping people. The fact they managed to avoid technical fraud doesnt make me think more of them thats for sure. Im not going to do business with people who thinks an acceptable way to act. Rant over sorry for that when i have more time ill share a funny on this subject involving a wooden plow plane.
Ken what the website you were bidding i dont recognize it


----------



## Mosquito

> I didn t go after it because all I could really think to do was take the blades I didn t make and part the rest out. And I don t like to do that because in the long term, it drives up prices. So I ll stick with the knucklehead special I already have ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


That was my resolution as well. Don't need the irons, just wanted the plane. Don't really want to buy it and sell the irons, even though I'd be in the plane for WAY cheap after that. I can just hope that the person who won wanted their first #46 and now gets that opportunity


----------



## HokieKen

> There should be 2 more blades coming your way if i can get to the PO
> 
> - drsurfrat


It's absolutely no hurry Mike. Please don't inconvenience yourself at all. It's liable to be several weeks before I get done making metal chips and back to making wood shavings anyway. And cutting T&G with my 46 is nowhere on the immediate list anyway ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

As far as sellers and language I've seen many tools where there are obvious problems and the seller says:

"the pictures are an integral part of the plane description"

Nothing but a catchall disclaimer even when they know somethings not right, parts are missing or badly damaged.

That is dishonest behavior in my eyes.


----------



## controlfreak

A picture that is clearly zoomed in on a blemish is fine but a poorly framed picture of the whole thing with a "see pictures for condition" is dishonest.


----------



## garethmontreal

I absolutely agree with both of both of you regarding sellers , dis honesty and language.


----------



## Mosquito

I am always very up front about anything like that when I'm selling on eBay or Craigslist. Mainly because I don't want to waste anybody's time, mine or someone else's. If I hide imperfections and then they buy it, I ship it, or they come out to look at it, they get here or receive it and say "Hey, this is broken here, you didn't say it was, I want to return it", or "I'm not interested if this is like that", it wastes their time, my time, and sometimes money in between.

Plus I usually like to lie to myself and tell myself I'm a decent person


----------



## HokieKen

> I am always very up front about anything like that when I m selling on *eBay or Craigslist*. ...
> 
> - Mosquito


But not on LJs. Noted.

;-)


----------



## Mosquito

lol LJ is where the scam is at, there's no buyer protection  Don't give away my money making schemes 

Also, not the part I was figuring you'd comment on lol


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, you left me a pretty hard choice on that one.


----------



## controlfreak

Sansoo22 is like that. He shows a picture of a rusty plane and then swaps if for a shiny one without telling you and I am like what no sunglasses come with this and what did you do with my rusty plane? The nerve.


----------



## Mosquito

LOL, truth


----------



## garethmontreal

Mos not only are you definitly a decent person i think its fair to say that you one of the most honorable of gentlemen. Especially since not buying that 45 meant i could buy this guy that should on Facebook marketplace 30 minutes ago and a half drive away.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/731971891061919/


----------



## bandit571

Ok..no pictures …yet, but..

Rods thread in the main body
Has large slotted head bolts for everything.

fence is just a metal one..no wood involved…stanley on one end, No. 45 on the other. flat, blank "plate" in the middle.

Depth stops? This one is missing them…Bolts are there, though. Right side will be a non-thread type.

No blade adjuster. No irons with it either. Rear rod seems to poke all the way through…wing nut for the slitter depth stop attaches to this rod….

Plane is a Floral pattern, black japanned with the front knob bolted to the main stock…not the fence.

More info when it gets here…..any idea what "Type" this would be?


----------



## Mosquito

Type 3


----------



## bandit571

Thank you, Sir!....will be waiting by the mailbox, until it shows up….


----------



## Mosquito

I've actually never tried that fence for the reason it was made that way… You flip it around to get a little further than you could get otherwise. That's why they added that flat spot to it after type 2


----------



## HokieKen

That's actually kinda cool about the fence. Might eliminate the need for long rods. Congrats on the purchase Bandit. Should be a good user.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm not sure about eliminating the long rods, I'm not sure you gain quite THAT much, but I could see it being handy to not have to switch


----------



## DLK

Somebody should grab these ebay mislabeled Sargent combination plane rods and irons.










Vintage Canvas Roll Up Metal Tools Machining 20 Piece Tool Kit


----------



## Mosquito

Would be a nice grab for anyone that has a sargent made combination plane for sure. Luckily, mine already has a set (Fulton)


----------



## Ocelot

You guys whetting peoples appetites for things they don't need!

If it's a steal, I want it. I can buy the plane they fit later, right.


----------



## Mosquito

hahaha, I like that way of looking at it :-D


----------



## drsurfrat

Anyone ever hear of Lewin?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LEWIN-multi-plane/293947144230?hash=item44709d7826:g:zE4AAOSwjDpf-Kgm

Kinda cool looking, not gonna bid…


----------



## HokieKen

Not me Mike but that's a cool find. I'm pretty sure Mos' has to have that bad boy!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That is different.


----------



## HokieKen

Looks like they are English made and were made in the 50's and are fairly common across the pond. From what little I read, they're solid users.


----------



## Mosquito

lol I've tried… one sold yesterday, and there's another one currently out there beside this one

They're not exceedingly rare, as they seem to pop up somewhat frequently (nothing like Stanley or Record, but not as scarce as others).  They're cast aluminum bodies, so they can suffer from the same problems of stripped threads that the A45 and other aluminum planes can, just because a cross thread is easier and more ruinous, and over tightening. British made planes

One thing I have noticed, is that like 85% of the Lewin planes I see come up for sale have their original boxes. Makes me curious if they were just not good users or sold to people that just never figured them out lol It seems like most planes that got used heavily don't end up in their original boxes anymore because they got stashed under the bench, in a tool chest, or something else so they'd be close at hand. Either that, or the Lewin box is just better, in that you don't have to take it apart (probably something to that)


----------



## DLK

> Would be a nice grab for anyone that has a sargent made combination plane for sure. Luckily, mine already has a set (Fulton)
> 
> - Mosquito


I had them already for my craftsman made by sargent. So someone else must need them.


----------



## MikeB_UK

> lol I ve tried… one sold yesterday, and there s another one currently out there beside this one
> 
> They re not exceedingly rare, as they seem to pop up somewhat frequently (nothing like Stanley or Record, but not as scarce as others). They re cast aluminum bodies, so they can suffer from the same problems of stripped threads that the A45 and other aluminum planes can, just because a cross thread is easier and more ruinous, and over tightening. British made planes
> 
> One thing I have noticed, is that like 85% of the Lewin planes I see come up for sale have their original boxes. Makes me curious if they were just not good users or sold to people that just never figured them out lol It seems like most planes that got used heavily don t end up in their original boxes anymore because they got stashed under the bench, in a tool chest, or something else so they d be close at hand. Either that, or the Lewin box is just better, in that you don t have to take it apart (probably something to that)
> 
> - Mosquito


More common over here Mos, There are 5 on ebay at the moment.
Never had a play with one, but they are meant to be pretty good.
Looks like it goes in the box fully assembled


----------



## HokieKen

Finally got around to sharpening up the 3/4" cutter I made myself and taking this for a test drive. I like it far better than the 45 for plowing dadoes. Once it gets going, it doesn't take near as much effort to keep it moving and in the cut.









My groove measures .760" wide so I must have gotten the trig right on the blade width this time 

It seems more fiddly to set up than the 45 though. I had to set the moving skate with a caliper to get it parallel to the main body and it's easy to skew the fence too which can cause the plane to bind up. I suspect this may be due to the rods threading into the body and maybe not being parallel and coplaner. It's okay as is though as long as I check the setup carefully. And I suspect I can improve the situation some if it seems necessary with some new rods and reamed holes in the skate and fence.


----------



## Lazyman

When you measure the rods, are they parallel?


----------



## HokieKen

Not sure yet Nathan. I need to take the skate and fence off and take some measurements. I feel like they are because the fence/skate slide pretty easily over the length.


----------



## Mosquito

> More common over here Mos, There are 5 on ebay at the moment.
> Never had a play with one, but they are meant to be pretty good.
> Looks like it goes in the box fully assembled
> 
> - MikeB_UK


Thanks for the confirmation on availability Mike! Nice to hear they're relatively well regarded too. The fully assembled in the box is my current theory as to why so many of them I see listed have their boxes (at least the ones you guys share with us over here in the US )


----------



## rad457

I had a parcel from across the pond delivered, thought who would be sending me British Beer? 4 day delivery from England, little more efficient than our system 
Well not a #45 technically but somewhat related?


----------



## Mosquito

that falls under "and other combination/moulding planes" lol

Looks nice


----------



## Lazyman

Andre, I bought a Record 405 from England last July. It took a less than a week to get through customs in New Jersey, another 7 or so days to get from there to DFW and then another 3 weeks for them to deliver it the last 30 miles to the wrong address. On another occasion, I ordered some Milliput on Etsy and didn't realize it was coming from England. I got in about 5 days, if I remember correctly. It is all over the place.


----------



## Mosquito

> It seems more fiddly to set up than the 45 though. I had to set the moving skate with a caliper to get it parallel to the main body and it's easy to skew the fence too which can cause the plane to bind up. I suspect this may be due to the rods threading into the body and maybe not being parallel and coplaner. It's okay as is though as long as I check the setup carefully. And I suspect I can improve the situation some if it seems necessary with some new rods and reamed holes in the skate and fence.
> 
> - HokieKen


I would agree on the more fiddly than the newer #45s, but about on par with the pre-depth adjustment ones. When I'm doing grooves (when I don't need the spur), I typically keep the moving skate in by about 1/8" from the edge of the iron, to avoid that. Other thing is to make sure the iron is ever so slightly outside the main body skate, to make sure that's not binding (that's the thing I usually have had the most issue with). And wax, be liberal with the wax


----------



## KentInOttawa

Every so often I see something on eBay that surprises me, like this.


----------



## Mosquito

The mysterious 8th function right there lol


----------



## drsurfrat

^ Of course! it's a veining/fluting plane, too.


----------



## Mosquito

A custom auxiliary base and it could be a core box plane too!


----------



## HokieKen

> I would agree on the more fiddly than the newer #45s, but about on par with the pre-depth adjustment ones. When I m doing grooves (when I don t need the spur), I typically keep the moving skate in by about 1/8" from the edge of the iron, to avoid that. Other thing is to make sure the iron is ever so slightly outside the main body skate, to make sure that s not binding (that s the thing I usually have had the most issue with). And wax, be liberal with the wax
> 
> - Mosquito


Yeah, the lack of depth adjuster really sucks. It's not terribly hard to get the blade set though as long as the skew is dead on. If the skew angle of the blade is off just a tad though, it's gonna be a PITA.

I'm sure everyone is aware of this but just in case it may help someone I'll pass it along anyways… To check the skew angle, I put the blade in the plane so that the edge sets just above a steel scale or parallel laid across the sole (or skates in this case). Then color the blade with a sharpie and make certain it is set all the way against the side wall and lock it down. Lay your scale across the sole/skates and scribe a line on the blade. If the skew is proper, the line will be parallel to the cutting edge. If it's not proper, now you have a line to grind to.

This may be important for those who I made cutters for. The one that I have used so far had the right skew for my blade. However, one of the St. James Bay cutters Mos' let me borrow a while back was slightly off. And I dug up a few old forum threads from other sites where guys had measured and got slightly different angles from one another and in some cases different angles when measuring their blades and actually measuring off the plane. So I suspect that over the years, there was some significant deviation in the cutter beds on these planes.

All that being said, if the skew isn't perfect, it just means one side of your groove will be a hair deeper than the other. So in most cases, you probably wouldn't even notice. But, to me, I like to eliminate as many sources of error as possible out of the gate so that when I get a bad result, I know it was all my fault and not just mostly my fault ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

OH! So that's why my slitter doesn't work! I mounted mine bevel-up. I feel like such an ass.


----------



## HokieKen

Got off on the skew tangent (see what I did there?) and forgot to address what I started to post about…

I did measure the rods last night and they are surprisingly parallel. Within .010" along the full length measuring both between inside and outside edges. I didn't go to the trouble of trying to measure whether or not they are coplanar but being that parallel, I think it's safe to assume they are 

I think the issues I have with the skate and fence not locking down parallel to the main body is simply a result of the slop between the holes on the rods. Which could be remedied but, the rods are flexible enough that even if I did make new rods that were a tight fit in the holes, it would still be possible to get them misaligned. So, I'm gonna leave it as-is. It's simple enough to use a caliper when I set it up to make sure nothing will bind.

Mos - when I got mine to work as I wanted it to yesterday, I actually had the moving skate set just inside of the blade edge (~.005" or so). I determined that if I had my blade seated against the side of the bed and that didn't put the cutting edge flush with the skate that either that particular blade needed some work or, if it was consistent with different blades, that I needed to machine the skate itself. But so far, the edge of the bed seems to be machined in dead alignment with the skate. I did find that the spur on the main skate sat just a hair proud of the skate itself. When I got the spur out, I found a good bit of corrosion on both the back of the spur and in the groove on the skate. So I used a small file in the groove and lapped the back of the spur on some wet/dry paper and now it's good to go.

Only other issue I've found so far is that there is a slight belly in the Rosewood face on the fence. So I'll plane that flat and I think I'll be ready to roll 

The batch of blades I sent out to be heat treated should be headed back to me in the next day or two. Hopefully I'll have them in-hand before the weekend and be able to do the final grinding on them and get them headed to their new homes next week!


----------



## HokieKen

Also… Mike, aka drsurfrat, shared his 46 plane labels for the box and the cutters. These are not repro labels since Stanley never made them but are really nicely done fabrications of what Stanley should have done  I added them to the folder with the 45 labels that is linked at the bottom of the OP. He gave his permission for me to share them with y'all.


----------



## Lazyman

If it becomes a pain, maybe making setup blocks for setting the skate width at least but some blocks for a few standard distances for the fence could be handy too?

I really need to get back to finishing my 46 clean up.


----------



## HokieKen

I haven't even started my 46 cleanup yet… It's functional as-is but it definitely needs a little love in the cosmetic department.


----------



## Lazyman

I just need to do one more pass at rust and grime removal and reassemble. It's been sitting like this for over a month now.


----------



## HokieKen

I wouldn't sweat it. You don't have any blades anyway ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

LOL. I almost said that but beggars can't complain too much.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm not so sure about this one… I almost feel bad, none of the irons were sharpened, still have the milling marks all around. It's usable, but I have some gripes lol

It is pretty lightweight though, so I'll give them that



















And for the record, I was waiting for this one to come to a close when drsurfrat posted it here lol. I was wanted this one instead of the one that ended a few hours before it. Turned out, there was a $10 cheaper shipping option available too


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, looks like the fence can swivel?


----------



## Mosquito

Swivel as in not be vertical, similar to what the #55's can do? If so, no; it just uses cam locks for everything that sometimes look like flexible joints lol. The only 4 screws on the whole thing are the cutter depth adjustment, the depth stop adjustment, and the 2 spurs. I quickly learned that the fine adjustment screw on the fence is pretty much a requirement. With how the fence locks down, it almost always moved on me.


----------



## HokieKen

She ain't exactly a looker either. Kinda homely…


----------



## Mosquito

Other than all the levers from the cams on it, I don't mind it too much. But I also have an affinity for art deco lol I kinda like the black and silver, and the tote is actually somewhat comfortable, despite its rather square cross section


----------



## theoldfart

Those cam locks look pretty damn handy, totally tool less and positive locking.


----------



## Mosquito

Except that the fence needs a flat head driver, and they're not interchangeable with any of the lever ones lol

I'm not sure if cam is the right term to call them… Maybe eccentric? They're barrels with an inclined rounded bottom groove that wraps around them. I'll try to get pics tomorrow


----------



## Ocelot

Somebody is selling a new made set of cutters for record 044. No bids and a few hours left.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-UNUSED-Full-Set-8-Replacement-Cutters-for-RECORD-044-Plough-Plane-1-8-9-16/233868196520?hash=item3673a17aa8:g:tv0AAOSwdXdgCgXZ


----------



## Mosquito

They didn't sell the last time around either


----------



## Ocelot

They look ok, and compared to making your own, a reasonable price. I don't have a 044, and my 043 has 3 blades which is all I need. I suppose original blades are not any higher when you see whole sets.


----------



## bandit571

Just got back home from a 4 day stay in the hospital….I do have Pictures to post after a bit…of the Type 3 No. 45 that arrived here…..have added a depth stop, for now….may start shopping for a few bits..later….


----------



## Mosquito

Everything alright Bandit?

What parts are you looking for? I can check my cache of parts


----------



## HokieKen

Glad you're back home Bandit. Hope all is good!


----------



## controlfreak

It's always good to be home Bandit! Hope you are getting well.


----------



## Lazyman

> Just got back home from a 4 day stay in the hospital….I do have Pictures to post after a bit…of the Type 3 No. 45 that arrived here…..have added a depth stop, for now….may start shopping for a few bits..later….
> 
> - bandit571


Whew! For a moment there I thought you were going to post pictures from your hospital stay. ;-)

Stay well.


----------



## Ocelot

> Whew! For a moment there I thought you were going to post pictures from your hospital stay. ;-)
> 
> Stay well.
> 
> - Lazyman


That's what I thought too!


----------



## bandit571

10th floor room, and no view….meh…Brain had a small leak in a blood vessel….they fixed that….more meds, of course..
Pictures?









Came with no depth stops( ebay produced a small depth stop, for now)..









There is a depth stop for the slitter…no slitter, though. 









This is the fence…and..









The Sliding Stock….both spurs are on board, set in the cut position….









A thumb nut for both the cutter holder, and the slitter/depth stop….









No Japanning is left…will have to clean to bare metal, and replace the black colours…Handles are crack free…
$36 + Tax+ Shipping= $52…as is…figure I can borrow some cutters from the Type 20….set this up for dados?

May wait a day or two..before I start in on this one…..


----------



## Mosquito

Glad they let you out Bandit 

Are you sure the Japanning is gone, and that it wasn't nickle plated (Type 4)? From the pictures it looks like it's nickel plated. Usually there's still japanning left in some of the casting details, but I don't really see any


----------



## bandit571

Every little hole in the castings has a bit of black down in it….on the left side of the main stock, right in front of the rear handle, spots in the floral area, and in the bottom of the stippled area….still black down in there…

About 95% of the japanning is gone, though. Except…the depth stop for the slitter is 100% black.


----------



## Mosquito

almost wonder if someone attacked it with a wire wheel or something then… Whatever removed it, sure did a thorough job lol


----------



## RWE

Good to have you back Bandit. I enjoy your random plane pictures. Hospitals in the time of Covid cannot be much fun.


----------



## bandit571

Ok…all the dirt and crud has been cleaned off. Rather nice and shiny…the Nickel plate seems to still be intact…

Patent date on the main skate….MAR 11 94…..Stanley Rule & Level Co.

Hmmm. Might just be a Type 4, after all….

Have it cleaned and set up as a 3/4" wide Dado cutter….had to replace one of the spurs,,,,was too worn down. Will get some better pictures, tomorrow. After a few Doctor appointments…..that is…


----------



## Mosquito

> Hmmm. Might just be a Type 4, after all….
> 
> - bandit571


I would agree. I didn't take notice of it before, but the knurled thumb screws for the fence, sliding section, and wing nuts look to be nickel plated as well, which would have been brass on the type 3


----------



## bandit571

Thumbscrews are Brass. As are the wingnuts. As for that Patent date? Will get a few better pictures tomorrow, once all the "Appointments" are done….then go get some Poplar, and build a box/case for it….then start shopping around for a few cutters….


----------



## bandit571

Hmm…

















hmmm.
.









a little big…having trouble re-sizing these…









May need a new card for the camera…not letting me edit….


----------



## HokieKen

Just a quick update on the 46 blades I'm making for a couple of y'all… They were mailed back to me last Wednesday from Phoenix. They were last scanned on Saturday in Tucson (hadn't made it out of the state in 3 days…) and have since had the status of "still in transit, arriving late" :-/ I had hoped to have them finished and shipped out this week but that's looking less and less likely…


----------



## theoldfart

Don't sweat it Kenny, I'll find some other tool to play with!


----------



## DavePolaschek

You have other tools, Kevin? Inconceivable!


----------



## theoldfart




----------



## drsurfrat

I have been thinking about a No46 depth adjuster. What about a clip that attached to the blade, then a screw drive to hold it up at a certain level? It would only adjust up, but if you started it deep, you could pull it up to make a shallower cut. It isn't exactly to scale, but I think a small knurled skew would fit.



















I couldn't resit putting the slitter in the blade slot.


----------



## Mosquito

in that same vein, perhaps an attachment that goes in there in place of the slitter, that attaches a "normal" type of Stanley #45 depth adjuster to it


----------



## drsurfrat

Yes, that would be much more efficient, and controlled, and solid. Except my blades don't have any notches.

Mos' no cracks about a 3/16" deep start cut, or the 8th use of the plow plane?


----------



## Mosquito

> Yes, that would be much more efficient, and controlled, and solid. Except my blades don t have any notches.
> - drsurfrat


Yeah, it would require a notch, or a hole like some of the early 45 irons had



> Mos no cracks about a 3/16" deep start cut, or the 8th use of the plow plane?
> 
> - drsurfrat


haha, it's been said before


----------



## HokieKen

The biggest issue I see with a depth adjuster on the 46 is that the direction of force needs to be parallel to the blade bed. Your concept solves that problem Mike  Your idea is very similar to one I've been meaning to prototype for a fence micro-adjuster that would work on either the 45 or 46.

Something in this vein but much more compact that would attach to the guide rods.









I've been hunting for an adjustable fence for my 45 for a really cheap price to no avail. If I'd get moving on this idea, I could quit looking and have a solution for my 46 to boot!


----------



## HokieKen

I knew I had mocked up a concept but couldn't find it earlier. Here's what I was thinking about. The dark gray parts are the guide rods and the locking part of the fence.


















My adjuster would lock on to the guide bar behind the fence with a thumb screw then the adjusting screw would butt up against the empty boss on the fence lock. The micro adjuster could be flipped upside down when the top holes on the fence are used. To move the fence in, you simply unlock the fence and turn the adjuster screw to move it then lock the fence back down. To move the fence further out, you would back the adjuster screw off using a shim gauge or caliper to set a gap between the adjuster and the face of the fence, then unlock the fence and slide it to butt back up against the adjuster.

Alternatively, there could be a flanged screw that goes on the other side of the fence boss and threads back into the adjuster screw. Then the fence could be moved in either direction by just turning the adjuster screw.

In any case, it still "feels" too cumbersome to me at present. But, I may mock it up and see if the general idea seems useable.


----------



## Mosquito

> Alternatively, there could be a flanged screw that goes on the other side of the fence boss and threads back into the adjuster screw. Then the fence could be moved in either direction by just turning the adjuster screw.
> 
> - HokieKen


That is exactly where my mind went when I started reading and saw the image.

The other thought was, do you think you'd need two? Or would one be able to handle it without binding up the fence from racking?

That is essentially what I think I would do though, as it seems to be the simplest, without modifying the fence itself (or just finding/buying a micro adjustable fence lol)


----------



## Mosquito

While I'm generally not a fan of the "Just throw a coat of paint on it" type of refurbs on combination planes, there's something about this #55 in black that's just sexy










They did a whole set, currently on eBay


----------



## HokieKen

My main reason for going to all this trouble instead of just coughing up what I would need to pay for an adjustable fence would be that I could use this on the 46 as well where an adjustable fence isn't an option. As far as one working, I dunno. Would have to try it and see. If it needed two, I think it would also need a wheel with witness lines instead of just a screw so that you could make sure you moved both sides the same amount. At that point, it definitely gets too cumbersome I think…


----------



## HokieKen

I saw that set too Mos. The seller needs to sell those individually. Not sure any user is gonna buy all of that in a single shot and no collector is gonna want those painted ones. It's a nice package though


----------



## HokieKen

Also, on the adjuster, I forgot to mention it but the piece that butts up against the fence has a boss that would be a pretty tight fit with the hole. That would (hopefully maybe) be sufficient to eliminate racking.


----------



## HokieKen

The 46 blades got a USPS scan again this morning. Woo hoo, they aren't lost and gone forever! They are however still about 100 miles away from where they were mailed 8 days ago… :-/


----------



## Lazyman

That was just the guy checking how much it is insured for before deciding that it is "lost".


----------



## Mosquito

I was tempted to throw an offer out there, but the main thing I want is the #12 H&R set, but like you said, not so interested in them being painted lol Not sure I'd want to tie up the money to grab, and split out the sets either. They should stick together  Plus, the thing that scares me about buying planes like that, where someone clearly went at them pretty heavy with the restore, is that who knows what problems they may have introduced while doing that. I looked at an aluminum 45 someone had at an MWTCA meet, but someone had attacked it with a wire wheel to remove rust on the skates, but in the process that chewed up some of the aluminum casting something fierce…

Kenny, what about going so far as changing up the rods on the #45 to accommodate a micro adjust mechanism?

Or, simplify it a little further, and make it a two step thing, sort of like the Tite-Mark marking gauges? You'd lose out on some of the fence travel, but you would with this design too (though maybe more with a tite-mark style)


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, that's getting too complex for me Mos ;-) I'd want something that goes on and comes off easily and doesn't make any permanent modification to the original parts. As far as loosing travel, my idea eliminates that. If you're fence is out close to the end of the rods, you can put my adjuster between the fence and the skate. So you can still use the full length of the guide rods.

Actually, not sure my idea is any different functionally than the titemark if I used the flanged screw on the opposite side of the fence lock. It's still a 2-stage adjustment, it's just not inline with the rod it's mounted on.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, the tite-mark mechanism is essentially the same, just that I think in a #45/#46 usecase, it would be a lot harder to get the micro adjust to come back out. I envisioned basically just the first two pieces of the tite-mark, and have it just push the fence. An external threaded barrel with a thumb screw, and an internal threaded barrel with knurling, and just have it bear on the fence casting. Was thinking it might be simpler, as it'd all be lathe work except the thumb screw?

Should also work on the inside, much the same way too, I suppose… tricky problem this.

I'm going to go have a look at the Lee Valley planes…


----------



## drsurfrat

Well, a good idea isn't necessarily any good at all. I tried the No46 blade adjuster and it is more finicky than just a blade.

Two things are kinda killers. 1. The roundness of the top of the plane doesn't make it repeatable. 2. The very short amount of the blade sticking up does not allow good registration against it for repeatability. 
And obviously, the space is cramped, at least for my sausage fingers.


----------



## Mosquito

> I m going to go have a look at the Lee Valley planes…
> 
> - Mosquito


Not useful lol Their combination plane has the same style mechanism as the stock micro-adjust #45 fence, and the small plow appears to just be the a clamping mechanism. Oh well lol


----------



## Mosquito

> Well, a good idea isn t necessarily any good at all. I tried the No46 blade adjuster and it is more finicky than just a blade.
> 
> Two things are kinda killers. 1. The roundness of the top of the plane doesn t make it repeatable. 2. The very short amount of the blade sticking up does not allow good registration against it for repeatability.
> And obviously, the space is cramped, at least for my sausage fingers.
> 
> - drsurfrat


Don't sell yourself short, it's still a good idea, just haven't found the right implementation yet 

That's a solid looking first shot at it, I'd say. Now you know more than you did before, so idea #2 can iterate on that… I hadn't thought about the issue of the blade length sticking out… almost makes me think it'll have to be some sort of notch or hole in modified irons then


----------



## HokieKen

Ahh. I'm tracking now. So it would only move the fence in one direction. You're right, that does make it easier to make and also makes it less obtrusive.

I think my first order of business will be to see how just bearing on one side of the fence will work. If it works to just push on one side with a tube that slips over the rod and racking isn't an issue, then I think that's the cleanest solution. It won't back the fence off but setting a gap and sliding the fence back against it wouldn't be a big deal. It's not like you have to adjust it after every pass or anything.


----------



## drsurfrat

Yea Kenny, remake all those 46 blades 3/4" longer. Should just take a minute.


----------



## Ocelot

Wrong picture of…
My other combo plane.
Never mind.


----------



## Mosquito

I just to say, there is some downright awesome think-tank stuff going on in this thread, and I love it


----------



## HokieKen

Not a bad shot at it Mike! I think Mos is right, without a slot or hole in the irons, it's gonna be hard to get a good grip on it. I almost think you would have to cut a counterbore in the body for the screw to seat in to get a good pulling action. Finally, moving the thumbscrew as close to the blade as possible would minimize bending/rotation and give more leverage pulling straight on the blade.


----------



## HokieKen

I've got my eye out for a beater body from a 46 on ebay. If I can grab one cheap enough, I'll play with making a direct copy of the 45 depth adjuster.


----------



## Lazyman

Just weld a tab on the end of each one. Ooo, Ooo, JB Weld! ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

Nathan could be on to something to try, actually… a tab and a threaded device with a groove in it…

Sort of the inverse of the Sargent style depth adjustment


----------



## drsurfrat

Like you, I don't what to touch the plane casting (or blades). If I would, I'd probably sink a threaded post in just behind the blade, parallel to it, add a notch to the top of the existing blades, and put a flanged nut to engage it like on the No71 router adjustment. That way you could drive it up and down. I wish I had SolidWorks access again.


----------



## drsurfrat

I guess I can''t type fast enough.


----------



## HokieKen

I'll have to look at my 46 when I get home tonight but I'm thinking the handle would prevent being able to drill and tap a hole behind the blade bed at the same angle as the bed? Might be able to do it from the bottom right next to the skate?


----------



## drsurfrat

Oh yea. It might be able to go in front of the blade, shallow so that it doesn't hit the locking bolt. Tha'd be ugly.


----------



## theoldfart

Stanley never had a 46 adjuster and it's not like Stanley did not have an ongoing product development program.
There must have been a solid reason whether a lack of demand for the feature or some other practical reason. Has anyone found any evidence of Stanley pattern makers toying with adjusters?


----------



## HokieKen

Not for the 46 Kev. At least not any evidence that I've been made aware of. On the other hand, the 45 fence is evidence of how simple it would have been to make the 46 fence adjustable and they never did that either…


----------



## HokieKen

> Oh yea. It might be able to go in front of the blade, shallow so that it doesn t hit the locking bolt. Tha d be ugly.
> 
> - drsurfrat


Not necessarily Mike. The 45 adjuster is in front of the blade.


----------



## Mosquito

> Stanley never had a 46 adjuster and it's not like Stanley did not have an ongoing product development program.
> There must have been a solid reason whether a lack of demand for the feature or some other practical reason.
> 
> - theoldfart


That's exactly what my take on it was too Kevin. They definitely had a reason not to. I had posted earlier when it first came up, but the later #46's overlapped with the #45 for quite a few years (40 something?) after the #45 got a depth adjustment, and even 20 years after the #45 got a micro adjust fence, the #46 still didn't.


----------



## HokieKen

Titemark concept for fence adjuster.


----------



## Mosquito

that's exactly what I was thinking Kenny


----------



## HokieKen

That would give a total of 1/2" of adjustability which is way more than is necessary. I'd most likely shorten it up a 1/4" or so to make it even less intrusive.


----------



## Mosquito

I had started typing that out too, but deleted it before posting lol I was thinking play with that barrel size, and see if making it slightly larger diameter, but not as long would help. Gain more usable fence area, and make it easier to turn.

Racking is still going to be my concern. I've had #45's where the fence moves really easy, but I've also had fences that you couldn't move unless you got both sides moving perfectly evenly, so who knows lol


----------



## bandit571

Just the right size to adjust a cutter?









Brass or, Nylon head?


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, racking is my concern too. I don't think it'd be an issue with my short rods but my long rods are aftermarket and are a really tight fit with the bores in the fence and I think it might be a problem with those.


----------



## Mosquito

And even if it doesn't work on a 45/46, you're half way to making your own marking gauges :-D


----------



## HokieKen

I've thought about that Mos but I just don't have a hard time setting my marking gauges for whatever reason so I've never bothered making one. If I ever have a need maybe I will then.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm with you, I've thought about buying a tite-mark a few times, but every time I've had it in my cart, I've removed it before checkout after I gave it some thought…


----------



## HokieKen

If I were going to buy one, I'd probably buy one from Eric Florip instead. Same price and I'd rather support him. Of course his lead times are so long that by the time I got it, I wouldn't need it anymore ;-) Truth is, I can't imagine any scenario in which I spend $100+ for a marking gauge…


----------



## bandit571

Stanley SW Marking gauge…









Was in use, today…









Set to match the 1/2" thickness of the boards….









A Handlebar Mustache…?


----------



## DavePolaschek

> I m going to go have a look at the Lee Valley planes…
> 
> Not useful lol Their combination plane has the same style mechanism as the stock micro-adjust #45 fence, and the small plow appears to just be the a clamping mechanism. Oh well lol


Coulda told you that, Mos. The small plow seems to have the same clamping mechanism that their skew rabbet plane has. IIRC, the rods interchange between those (and not with their combination plane).


----------



## Mosquito

haha, yeah Dave. I actually went back and looked at the pictures I took when we did that comparison at your shop when the Veritas Combo plane was brand new


----------



## HokieKen

You ahould pop over to Dave's shop again and make sure we aren't missing anything useful in the Veritas design ;-P


----------



## Mosquito

That would be a lot easier if his shop was still where it was back then lol


----------



## DavePolaschek

It's a real easy three day drive from MSP to SAF, Mos. Overnight in Osceola and Dodge City. Or Kansas City and Amarillo if you want to stick to the interstates and avoid the mountains.

If you load a truck up with lumber in MN, you could probably pay for the gas, hotels, and meals by selling it here, even.


----------



## DanKrager

This discussion went very fast! Late to the party, but I had an idea stimulated by the first sketch Ken posted. As proposed, the adjuster pushes the fence but does not pull it. And it might contribute to binding by pushing one side only with not enough support in the hole to keep from binding. Consider this slight mod. If the barrel of the adjuster went all the way through the open fence hole with a reduced diameter at the thumb screw and was secured on the inboard side of the hole with a left hand threaded cap. The barrel going all the way through the open hole with tight sliding fit and secured with LH threaded cap would contribute to keeping the fence perpendicular to the rods minimizing binding tendencies. The cap would pull the fence when retreating just as it pushes the fence when advancing.

Imma have to study the 46 fence to see why a micro adjuster like the 45 doesn't work.

DanK


----------



## Mosquito

> Imma have to study the 46 fence to see why a micro adjuster like the 45 doesn t work.
> 
> - Dan Krager


Because they never made the castings for it lol It's just a fence, no reason a micro adjust wouldn't work on it


----------



## bandit571

Have ordered a depth stop for the right side of the #45…....won't need to use the threaded section. Will get here next Wednesday….then I can move the smaller stop to the sliding stock. May start looking for a few cutters, without the notches….and work on getting the plane fitted out for gross grain work.

No rush…..might even build a cutter box, as I go along….


----------



## HokieKen

> Imma have to study the 46 fence to see why a micro adjuster like the 45 doesn t work.
> 
> - Dan Krager
> 
> Because they never made the castings for it lol It s just a fence, no reason a micro adjust wouldn t work on it
> 
> - Mosquito


Yep. I considered directly modifying the fence to work like the 45 but without the cast bosses for the outer guide rods to slide through, I just don't think there would be enough bearing surface to keep the moving section square. And I think moving the whole fence is a more robust solution anyway. It doesn't introduce any more variabilty into the system than there already is.


----------



## HokieKen

I didn't get to take my 46 out and study it any last night. But… I'm thinking that the slitter pocket might provide the answer to duplicating the 45 depth adjuster without making any permanent modifications to the body. The 45 adjuster is attached to braces cast off the front of the handle. But if you separated the braces from the handle then made a bracket that was held on by the slitter screw/stud and attached the adjuster parts to that bracket then Bob's your uncle.

I'll look more closely over the weekend and see if it's feasible


----------



## HokieKen

> This discussion went very fast! Late to the party, but I had an idea stimulated by the first sketch Ken posted. As proposed, the adjuster pushes the fence but does not pull it. And it might contribute to binding by pushing one side only with not enough support in the hole to keep from binding. *Consider this slight mod. If the barrel of the adjuster went all the way through the open fence hole with a reduced diameter at the thumb screw and was secured on the inboard side of the hole with a left hand threaded cap. The barrel going all the way through the open hole with tight sliding fit and secured with LH threaded cap would contribute to keeping the fence perpendicular to the rods minimizing binding tendencies.* The cap would pull the fence when retreating just as it pushes the fence when advancing.
> 
> Imma have to study the 46 fence to see why a micro adjuster like the 45 doesn t work.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


I think you might be right Dan. I still think the inline concept is cleaner and less obtrusive. We'll have to see how stuff works with racking though.


----------



## Mosquito

> I didn t get to take my 46 out and study it any last night. But… I m thinking that the slitter pocket might provide the answer to duplicating the 45 depth adjuster without making any permanent modifications to the body. The 45 adjuster is attached to braces cast off the front of the handle. But if you separated the braces from the handle then made a bracket that was held on by the slitter screw/stud and attached the adjuster parts to that bracket then Bob s your uncle.
> 
> I ll look more closely over the weekend and see if it s feasible
> 
> - HokieKen


Yeah, that's what I was suggesting initially too. Complication coming from if you want to use the slitter you'd have to remove it, but then I guess at that point you're not needing the depth stop on an iron you're not using anyway lol

The ground slot and affixing wing nut are already there, so it's an add-on at that point instead of a modification (minus the interfacing of the depth adjustment and blade)


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, would still have to slot the blade. And I think it could be done such that the slitter or depth stop could still be installed behind the adjuster add-on.

I'm beginning to think a hammer may be the best solution here ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

It would seem that since we are talking about micro-adjustments, the racking concern would be minimal. You have to release both of the thumbscrews to move the fence regardless and when I slide the fence by grabbing just one side, it slides pretty easily.

My 46 just has the standard short rods though so there is not much room for putting the longer adjusting mechanism on the rods as drawn. I guess when you are mounting near the end of the rods, you would want to be able to put the mechanism on the plane-ward side and would need to be short enough to fit in there. The original design requires less room on the rods and will work better with the shorter ones.


----------



## rad457

Stupid Question, will the fence from a # 45 work/fit on a #46?


----------



## HokieKen

Nope Andre. Stanley made the centerline between the guide rods about 1/8" difference. @$$holes.


----------



## HokieKen

> It would seem that since we are talking about micro-adjustments, the racking concern would be minimal. You have to release both of the thumbscrews to move the fence regardless and when I slide the fence by grabbing just one side, it slides pretty easily.
> 
> My 46 just has the standard short rods though so there is not much room for putting the longer adjusting mechanism on the rods as drawn. I guess when you are mounting near the end of the rods, you would want to be able to put the mechanism on the plane-ward side and would need to be short enough to fit in there. The original design requires less room on the rods and will work better with the shorter ones.
> 
> - Lazyman


The 46s only had one size of guide rods and the length depends on the type IIRC. For me, the fence moves pretty easily on my 46 and on the short rods on my 45. But, on my long rods on the 45, it sticks a lot more. I feel sure there is significant variability among different planes and different rod lengths.

But to your point, yes, making the adjuster compact is a primary consideration. Making it work obviously takes precedence but after that, size is my main consideration.


----------



## HokieKen

Now that Andre mentions it, will a 55 fence fit a 45? I've often thought the wood handle on the 55 fence would be convenient on the 45.


----------



## Lazyman

It would be easy enough to make a handle that fits into the extra holes on the fence.


----------



## Mosquito

I haven't tried 55 on 46, but 55 doesn't fit on 45 I don't believe. I can check next time I get out there, but I think others could probably beat me to it


----------



## Mosquito

> It would be easy enough to make a handle that fits into the extra holes on the fence.
> 
> - Lazyman


or just buy a Sargent


----------



## HokieKen

I was just thinking if it would fit the 45, I could get a comfy handle AND a microadjust in one fence. It would work just as well on the 46 though so I'd be curious to know if it fits that one too.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Using the No. 46 today. We don't need no stinkin' micro adjust…

(But the discussion is fascinating)


----------



## Lazyman

"!" Kenny, just build your micro-adjuster into a handle add on.

EDIT: we'll Rube Goldberg this sucker yet..


----------



## DanKrager

Way cool, Smitty.

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

Nice Smitty  It might not need a microadjust but it sure looks like it could use and upgraded dust collection port!


----------



## HokieKen

Whatcha makin' Smitty?


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, seriously thick shavings! And you have a shop fern? Or is it something smokable?


----------



## HokieKen

That's future lumber Kev ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

Smitty's in beast mode with that #46 lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Cypress handrails for the front of Dad's shop building. Reclaimed from these.










To these.










Now cutting dadoes on the underside with the 46 before shaping the corners / edges.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yes, one of two shop ferns. I bring those and a few other plants to the shop space to wait for spring. Haven't tried smoking them… what has California life been teaching you, Mr. Fart? ;-)


----------



## controlfreak

Finally getting to the tool tray on my workbench build and excited to use my No. 45 to cut the grove to receive the rabbit edge on the bottom. Question, Should I cut the rabbit also with the 45 or would the No. 78 be a better tool?


----------



## HokieKen

In my experience (which is very minimal) they both work equally well for cutting rabbets CF. For me, it would depend on how wide the rabbet is. The 78 is a faster setup and is easier to balance for me. But, on a very small lip, its size probably makes it harder to balance and the 45 is probably a better choice.


----------



## theoldfart

I have better luck with the 45; unlike most of the Galloots 'round here i am not genetically predisposed to making tools work perfectly first time and every time!

All shop time is practice time for me.


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, lets see. California has shown me that they lack a sense of self preservation. Just look at the number of weather related accidents. I'm a man. I don't have to slow down for water/snow. Oh, and the use of turn signals is a sign of weakness! On ramps are a challenge to beat the guy in the lane your merging into.

Rant over.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Maybe smoking some fern is exactly what u need.



Q: Is it poor form to stow a 45 and 46 together in such a drawer as this?


----------



## HokieKen

I'd settle for being genetically predisposed to making them work acceptably MOST of the time…


----------



## rad457

> Maybe smoking some fern is exactly what u need.
> 
> 
> 
> Q: Is it poor form to stow a 45 and 46 together in such a drawer as this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Well they are Kin? Now when the #45 gets anywhere close to the #050 ya hear some Weird sounds
Have to agree with the Micro adjustment observation, tear out and chips count?


----------



## HokieKen

Kev, slowing down for rain or snow, blinking turn signals, and merging into a lane behind someone are all known to the state of California the cause cancer and reproductive toxicity.

I have to disagree with you. The Herculean efforts that state goes to to prevent anyone from getting cancer or little mutant babies shows an unnatural predilection to self preservation ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

I dunno Smitty, close proximity such as you propose could lead to an incestuous and unsanctioned relationship. It could lead to, lets say, a 46 with a microadjustable fence or a 45 with skewed cutters!


----------



## HokieKen

45 + 46 = 91

Stanley conspicuously left #91 open in their product line. Coincidence?

I think you're tempting fate leaving those two together in a dark drawer Smitty…


----------



## bandit571

Working on a case to store a 45 in…









2 corners are done….spacer bar until I can get the other 2 corners done,,,









Then see about a floor, and a lid…..will worry about how to stash a few cutters, later….borrowing one from the Type 20 version…


----------



## bandit571

Question: This #45 has the "short" rods…..do I really NEED to buy a set of them LONG rods? This 45 has rods that screw into place.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

No. 55 fence on the 46:










Re: incestuous storage. I was hoping for a 46 1/2, which is a 46 with micro-adjustable fence and cutter.

Oh well.


----------



## Mosquito

> Question: This #45 has the "short" rods…..do I really NEED to buy a set of them LONG rods? This 45 has rods that screw into place.
> 
> - bandit571


Depends on what you want to use it for. I generally keep short rods on my #45, because I find it nicer to use than using it with long rods that I use 5% of the time lol


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks for the update Smitty, that's what I thought would happen with the #55/46 fences


----------



## HokieKen

Ha! The 55 and 46 aren't even close. IIRC the 45 and 46 are close enough that you can actually bend the rods a bit and force the 45 fence on the 46. So the 55 fence obviously won't fit the 45 either. Guess I'll just have to buy a 55 if I want to use that fence ;-)

I leave the long rods on mine Bandit but that's out of laziness. I haven't used it a whole lot but, I don't think I've done anything with it that I couldn't have done with the short rods. And IIRC, that one has the fence that can be flipped around? So that gives you an extra inch or so in a pinch.

We're ALL hoping for a 46-1/2 Smitty.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Lotta bending, Kenny.










Battle of the rounds. Woodies win.



















I quietly thank Don Yoda alot for offering the H&R set…


----------



## Johnny7

All this talk of depth stops reminds me of a Stanley model shop plane which never saw production-the No 145.










read about it here: https://eaiainfo.org/2019/10/22/there-is-a-stanley-no-145/


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah Johnny, that came up a again a little while in this thread. It was a pretty interesting read


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

No. 55 reeding cutter in the No. 45. And a bench in use.


----------



## HokieKen

> Lotta bending, Kenny.
> ...
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Interesting. I swear when I was shopping for 46s on ebay I saw one that had a 45 fence on it. Maybe they reamed out the holes in the 45 fence. Or maybe they used the top hole on one side and bottom on the other? I like to think I'm observant enough to notice something that obvious though…


----------



## bandit571

Just ordered a set of long rods for the Type 3/4 No. 45…...still figure I can use the cutters between the two planes….


----------



## HokieKen

Got all the parts you need now Bandit? Anybody else in need of any particular 45 bits or bawbles? There's a beater on ebay I'm considering bidding on for the adjustable fence. If I knew I could unload some of the other parts, I'd bid a little more. It's missing the skate and doesn't have a slitter or slitter depth stop and no cutters. Everything else appears to be present.


----------



## bandit571

Put both of these to work, late last night..









Needed a dado milled..









To house the handle in. Also needed grooves to house the floor panel in…rather than change cutters and settings, just change the entire plane, right…









Lots of chippiness going on, last night….dry run for all the clamps I'll need, later today…









Glue this thing up, and make a lid while waiting on glue to dry…

Now have both depth stops, and the long rods..either already here, or on their way from the Left Coast…


----------



## 33706

*Finally got my own #55!!*

!






















































I was blown away by the handmade leather sheaths that somebody made for the cutters. There are 53 cutters, some of which reside otherwise in Veritas cutter boxes. Plus, some extra parts, too.


----------



## theoldfart

Rather nice looking set PK especially the leather holders. Now go make some moldings!


----------



## 33706

> Rather nice looking set PK especially the leather holders. Now go make some moldings!
> 
> - theoldfart


 Thanks, Kevin!
Now if I could just get my hands on some tiger maple, this plane would help me turn the timber into my lifelong *tour-de-force*, a traditional New England bonnet-top highboy. Then I'll hang up my accumulated load of iron.


----------



## theoldfart

That is a masters project PK. I've been doing a Connecticut Valley Low Boy off and on for a few years now and I've found that to be tough.


----------



## Mosquito

Dang PK, that is sweet!


----------



## 33706

> Dang PK, that is sweet!
> 
> - Mosquito


Wow, kind words from the combination tool Master!!
I've known people that do leather work, wish they were close to me now, I'd have my '45s bundled up the same way. Now I've got to get ahead of the learning curve, the 45s were hard enough to get competent on, now I've gotta get myself proficient on this boy. This was probably my best acquisition ever, and I've got a space reserved for it in my keeper's cabinet. This whole thread is an inspiration to me.


----------



## Mosquito

The #55 is a blast to use once you get it set up. It'll probably take some time and fiddling to get used to how all the pieces work together to do what they do, but after that it's a lot of fun. Just have to think in another dimension with the middle skate that can move vertically, and fences that can change angles lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Those leathers are fab, pk!


----------



## HokieKen

Wow, fantastic find PK! I like the leather blade holders too.

The 46 blades showed up yesterday  Gonna try to get the final grinding done on those today and get them in the mail in the next couple days.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Those leather holders are sweet. I'm pondering whether I should order leather and build a decent stitching pony so I could add making a set like that to my todo list. The boxes that come with the Veritas combo plane are ok, but don't fit the tongue and groove cutters, and if you don't fill them up, the cutters slide side-to-side…

And then there's the bag that holds the cutter holders….

The only snag I see in using leather for them is that leather can hold moisture, which isn't so great for tool steel. But then I live in a desert now, so perhaps that's not much of a worry…. Hmm….


----------



## controlfreak

Those leather pouches and saddle bag sure are a nice bonus to go with that 55, nice.


----------



## DanKrager

Congratulations PK. Interesting.

DanK


----------



## Lazyman

> The only snag I see in using leather for them is that leather can hold moisture, which isn't so great for tool steel. But then I live in a desert now, so perhaps that's not much of a worry…. Hmm….
> 
> - Dave Polaschek


I wonder if you oil the leather before you stitch it together if that would mitigate that problem. A quick wipe with an oily rag every now and then would help refresh the oil.


----------



## HokieKen

Whadddaya know. The pointy part of skewed blades are sharp. So don't grab them to lap the edges…


----------



## Lazyman

Patrick's got nothing on Kenny's Blood and Gore.


----------



## HokieKen

Fini! Ready to pack up and ship out 









You recipients will notice that I left some scale from heat treating on the bevels.









It'll come off with a couple of passes on whatever you sharpen with. I just didn't want to take a chance on dubbing the tip or altering the skew angle removing it. And it won't hurt anything so I'm gonna throw it in for free ;-)

You guys PM me your mailing addresses. I have both of them somewhere but I'm too lazy to hunt for them.


----------



## drsurfrat

> The only snag I see in using leather for them is that leather can hold moisture, which isn't so great for tool steel. But then I live in a desert now, so perhaps that's not much of a worry…. Hmm….
> - Dave Polaschek


Blued steel has been going into leather holsters for a couple centuries; I wonder if there is a historic treatment for gun leather?


----------



## drsurfrat

Ran across this in my collection. Anyone want it? I figure I could put it on fee-bay and be annoyed at how much they take, or give it to one of you and feel much better. No cutter, but one of the thumbscrews is really shiny. Has the "B" casting which I think puts it around 1897-1909 or so.


----------



## 33706

> The only snag I see in using leather for them is that leather can hold moisture, which isn't so great for tool steel. But then I live in a desert now, so perhaps that's not much of a worry…. Hmm….
> - Dave Polaschek
> 
> Blued steel has been going into leather holsters for a couple centuries; I wonder if there is a historic treatment for gun leather?
> 
> - drsurfrat


Thanks for all the great replies! The cutters that reside in the leather sheaths look no worse the wear than cutters that typically sit in the thin wooden boxes. Whether this leather has been treated, I cannot say. Of greater significance to me, north of the 49th parallel, is bringing a tool indoors that has been outside in this -30F weather. It has to be done carefully, or it will become covered in condensation when I bring it indoors. This #55 went from a warm house, to my warmed truck, and immediately to my warm basement. I did mention the effect of* tannin* on cold steel, he was not concerned.


----------



## DavePolaschek

> Blued steel has been going into leather holsters for a couple centuries; I wonder if there is a historic treatment for gun leather?


Two differences there, Mike. One, blued steel is oxidized already, thus the bluing (or browning if you go older). Two, you almost always take a gun out of a holster if you're going to put it away for more than overnight.

Other than that, gun leather is just tanned with the usual suspects. Mink oil or shoe polish treatment on the outside if you live in a cold or wet climate, just like any other leather. And oil from the gun on the inside. That's probably the major form of protection, but people are less careful about piling tools than guns, from what I've seen. Plus, not blued, so no layer of protection…

Thanks for posting the pictures, PK. Those leather sheaths / scabbards are something I'll probably duplicate one of these years. They made it onto the whiteboard project list, anyhow…


----------



## controlfreak

> Fini! Ready to pack up and ship out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You recipients will notice that I left some scale from heat treating on the bevels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It'll come off with a couple of passes on whatever you sharpen with. I just didn't want to take a chance on dubbing the tip or altering the skew angle removing it. And it won't hurt anything so I'm gonna throw it in for free ;-)
> 
> You guys PM me your mailing addresses. I have both of them somewhere but I'm too lazy to hunt for them.
> 
> - HokieKen


Being that I don't have anything to put them in and I didn't order any I seriously thought about PM ing my address to throw your count off and make you think you are losing it. ;-)


----------



## bandit571

I'm more on the look-out for non-slotted cutters for my older Stanley 45….Been using the slotted ones from the Type 20 one…..


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks for the offer Mike but if I had that, I'd feel compelled to seek out its mate. I have no real interest in the H&Rs and should probably keep it that way…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mike, that's awesome!

If I were missing it, I'd be DMing you.


----------



## theoldfart

Yup, generous offer Mike. BUT already have the 10 H&R's. Got any 12's?


----------



## drsurfrat

nope, sorry, just this bladeless orphan.


----------



## Mosquito

You and me are both looking for those Kev lol

I have a few duplicates, I think I have 3 sets of No. 8s. I've sold most of the Stanley's I've had over the years, and kept the flat thumbscrew Records I have nearly a set of. I should have bought a set of No. 12's that I could have, but the price wasn't low enough for me to overcome my OCD of it having knurled thumb screws that wouldn't have matched… But I probably should have, since I haven't come across a complete set since


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, I'd prefer Record H&R's to match my current set.


----------



## jerseygeorge

Tool Friends- My dad was a big collector of hand tools. BIG. When he died my brother had most of his tools auctioned off, but I kept a box for old times sake. And that is where they are… in a box. I am not using and will post for sale. First off is a #45, MINT condition, in a box. All original, and unique in it's quality. PM me with honest reasonable offers.


----------



## jerseygeorge

Also.. I have some Stanley, Bailey, Bedrock and other planes and plane parts to sell. Any suggestions best tool forum to list for sale whether here at Lumberjocks, or elsewhere?


----------



## DanKrager

I'm not a leather expert by any means. I learned the hard way that steel will rust away quickly and mightily in acid tanned leather, which is most of it, I understand. Vegetable tanned leather is more friendly to steel and will not destroy what it wraps very quickly. I'm very careful about what i put in leather nowadays. I have a couple old corn huskers hooks which were abbreviated leather gloves secured to a flat steel hook. Where the leather contacted the steel, the steel has a different "texture" and the area covered is tiny. My gun collector neighbor is an historian expert on Illinois made guns and he will not allow leather in the same case as the prizes he has. So there's that. FWIW.

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

jerseygeorge - that 45 is lovely! Definitely a collector's piece rather than a user. It makes me cringe to say this but, if I were you, I'd put it on Ebay. That's where you'll get the largest audience and where collector's will be lurking. Most of us around here are users more than collectors. I think Mos is the only one who will admit to having the label of "collector" ;-) The bits and bawbles in your second post look more like my speed. You might want to post that stuff over in the Handplanes of Your Dreams thread. Always fellas over there looking for pieces to complete an orphaned tool.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm not a collector, I'm a preservationist


----------



## drsurfrat

I am trying to uncollect. It isn't really working.


----------



## Mosquito

I collect over-utilized space


----------



## drsurfrat

jerseygeorge - In case you don't know, keep these with the router(s)


----------



## HokieKen

Seems like I've started a collection of Mos' cast-offs. So maybe I'm an indirect collector once-removed?


----------



## rad457

> Seems like I ve started a collection of Mos cast-offs. So maybe I m an indirect collector once-removed?
> 
> - HokieKen


No, Da King of Enablers


----------



## bandit571

Well, was SUPPOSED to get a Depth stop AND a set of long rods…in the mail…TODAY…..they are unable to walk in 4" of .snow…..sooooo, I will have to get outside in the morning …and shovel a path for them to stroll along….

Lid for the plane case is in the clamps..now..









View from the top…and..









View from the bottom….waiting on the glue to cure….lots of fancy cuts, going on…









Just to build a lid…..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looking thru listings for 55s this AM, saw this tag in one picture of a quite pristine model.










Wonder if it's this depth stop (top, center in the pic below) that tag was originally attached to?


----------



## Mosquito

That is very interesting Smitty…


----------



## HokieKen

I'd guess it would have to be the depth stops (70 and 73) just looking at some pictures. I didn't see any other parts with two holes that looked like candidates.









Cool find Smitty. I anticipate repro-labels to be made in the near future ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

Look at figure 1 and 15 on page 3 and 7 in this #55 manual. You can see where the diagram shows a thin strip of wood on one of the depth gauges (#73 in Kenny's diagram). You may need to zoom in to see it well.

EDIT: In fact, every diagram that shows #73 appears to have a strip on the bottom of it and fig 40 even shows a strip that is under the beading cutter.


----------



## Mosquito

Close Nathan… Fig. 44 on page #14 is what is intended.












> While fence E can be used to gauge the width of the chamfer, better results will be obtained by using depth gauge F attaching a wood face of proper shape to the bottom of same, as shown in Fig. 44


----------



## Mosquito

What you were referring to by #73 Nathan was the beading fence/stop, which was sometimes a two-piece adjustable unit, and sometimes (more commonly known) a single solid casting


----------



## HokieKen

Mystery solved


----------



## Mosquito

I've read through a few versions of the #45 manuals multiple times, looks like I need to read through the #55 manuals more now :-D

Reading through some of it, though, makes me want to get my #55 out and try going through all the steps/profiles/setups in the manual for fun


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, I think there was a posting somewhere on the inter webs with just that. They made an example of all of the molding possibilities.


----------



## Lazyman

I missed fig. 44 Mos.

I thought the same thing after skimming through all of the examples of different profiles you can make with the 55. I want to try each of them but I would have to buy one first.  Making one of each of the examples would make a cool display mounted behind your 55's throne.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, Kevin, this one
Someone shared it a little while ago, and I've had it open since. I've quick scanned it, but haven't read through it in its entirely yet.

Nathan, I like that idea lol


----------



## theoldfart

Yup, that's it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> While fence E can be used to gauge the width of the chamfer, better results will be obtained by using depth gauge F attaching a wood face of proper shape to the bottom of same, as shown in Fig. 44
> 
> - Mosquito


That's awesome!


----------



## bandit571

Finally…lookee what showed up, this afternoon..









The LONG rods…and..









The "Main" Depth Stop…..then….









Awaiting a coat of varnish…









Gunstock to the flavour of the stain…









Need a couple more brushes….trying to decide on whether the stain the entire insides, yet,,

So…..waiting until after the varnish is done, then figure out how to stick a couple labels on…..including one one the end…









Hmmmm….


----------



## RWE

The box looks real nice. Post again after you finish it and get the labels put on.


----------



## jerseygeorge

Friends,

Thanks for all of the comments and suggestions. I sadly/gladly reached the point in life where I realized I had too many tools and machines! So I have been paring down and consolidating. I hope to turn all of my planes into a "Rotex" sander. Thanks again, and here is another plane-porn pic.


----------



## HokieKen

JG, that plane is in phenomenal shape. Nickel plating appears to be nearly 100%.

I don't know that I've ever seen a 45 with anything other than Rosewood on the handle. Is that common Mos?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Beautiful plane, Mike. You've got picture taking and posting down pat, too. Best wishes on the sale(s).


----------



## Mosquito

Kenny, no, there were some catalog references to hardwood tote and knob around 1961-1962, but it's largely refuted as not having actually existed, and I haven't heard anything about anyone finding such a plane where they believed the tote and knob to be original.

A few of my #45's around this time frame (Type 11 is 1910-1914), have similarly toned wood


----------



## drsurfrat

Not too many people in this world can write 


> *A few of my #45 s *around this time frame (Type 11 is 1910-1914), have similarly toned wood
> - Mosquito


I'm really glad we have access to such an expert.


----------



## HokieKen

Amen Mike!

So you think that is Rosewood on jersey's 45? Grain didn't look right to me but I know "Rosewood" encompasses a lot of different woods.


----------



## Mosquito

haha, I'm happy to share. Makes me feel like my addiction is at least woth while :-D

It's been…. 14 days since I bought a #45, and counting…

I would believe it to be rosewood, yeah. I would imagine Stanley back then probably had multiple suppliers of rosewood, so I wouldn't be surprised if the exact species differed from time to time. I think the thing that's throwing it off is that most of the totes are primarily quarter or rift sawn wood, where part of that tote looks like it's starting to get into flat sawn


----------



## drsurfrat

I have a type 6 (1888-91) tote that has some very light sapwood or growth difference, so I also think it is just light rosewood:


----------



## HokieKen

That's a mighty fine lookin' repair on that tote Mike! You do that one?


----------



## drsurfrat

I'm not sure if you are kidding, but it isn't a repair, it really is all the same, beautiful wood. they kind of thing they later would have rejected, or painted over with some dark lacquer.

Funny enough, if it was my repair, I would have tried to match it better.


----------



## Mosquito

That's what I thought too, it was just a dark streak in the grain between heartwood and sapwood. I like it


----------



## HokieKen

Wow. I like it too. The dark streak looked so straight and so perfect that I thought it was an epoxy line. That's even more beautiful than it would have been impressive if it was a repair


----------



## donwilwol

I love the tires with the sap wood


----------



## donwilwol

I love the totes with the sap wood


----------



## theoldfart

So what's wrong with the tires?


----------



## donwilwol

> So what's wrong with the tires?
> 
> - theoldfart


You'll have to ask android. It is always changing what I want to say.


----------



## Lazyman

That sounds just like what I expect an android would say. Are we really sure that Don's phone has taken over control of him. Send your code word Don so that we know it's you.


----------



## HokieKen

Androids don't have tires.


----------



## donwilwol

> Are we really sure that Don s phone has taken over control of him.
> 
> - Lazyman


My wife says that all the time!!


----------



## bandit571

Still fitting out this box..









Will cobble up a cutter holder box. Question now is…what screwdriver(s) did Stanley toss in with this plane? I doubt that the Millers Falls No. 6 screwdriver would do…..

Thinking a couple labels right on this end….









I take it that this plane was made BEFORE my Roxton Pond, QUE, CAN. one was…..so, maybe a New Brittain, CONN?

Top of the lid will get a label as well…..but, which one…..that be the question…


----------



## bandit571

Ok….first try….the square box with the 45 inside it…..is suitable for ….framing on a wall….

Not being all that printer literate…had my son come down stairs, and set things right. Now have the 3 lables the right size ( I hope) and will try to attach them later….

Thank you for those labels!


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm..









Matches the other case I have…labels on one end only..and…









One on the lid…..had to do a little "colouring"...









Pencil "flavour" is called "Deep Emerald".....will see how it looks after the second coat of varnish….first coat has already been rubbed down….


----------



## HokieKen

Looking good Bandit!


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Androids don't have tires.
> 
> - HokieKen


Sure they do


----------



## tshiker

I have been wondering about that tag for years! Lol One day I'm going to sit down and read some stuff!


----------



## Lazyman

Thanks Kenny!










Turned my collectable into a tool.


----------



## bandit571

Stashed away….









With the Long Rods sitting on the floor….


----------



## HokieKen

I didn't know you were gonna use it as a spill plane Nathan ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

They don't call it a combination plane for nothing.


----------



## HokieKen

Technically, the 46 is called an adjustable dado and plow plane ;-)


----------



## bandit571

I guess this can hide out in the case…









Until I figure a way to store it…









It can sit right about..here…

Have also ordered a "beading stop"....might get here next Tuesday? Not sure which Stanley 45 I'll keep it with…

Need to start shopping for cutters this plane can call it's own….instead of borrowing from the Type 20 plane..


----------



## HokieKen

I'm going to be doing another batch of blades for 46 planes if anyone needs anything. I'll do them for $15/blade in whatever sizes you want. Only straights though, not worth the time for profiles or match cutters. If you need several, we'll work out a price break for quantity. If anyone needs any, let me know ASAP. Figuring on starting on these soon and need to get material ordered.


----------



## bandit571

Found a better screwdriver for the #45…









Circled in red. 2nd one from the right.

Still trying to win a basic set of cutters on FeeBay…..so this latest 45 does not have to borrow from the Type 20 one…

A Beading Stop is supposed to arrive here, today…..we'll see how that goes…


----------



## rad457

Bandit, watch under the #55 cutters, I picked up a set for about half what the #45 were going for? The Box they came in was nicer than the #45 cutter boxes.


----------



## bandit571

Just got out-bid…..ran the price up a bit….way too rich for me….cost more than the plane did…..


----------



## bandit571

ran that bid way up..we'll see how bad they want it….

This, however, did show up in today's mail…









Not sure which No. 45 this will get used in…









Not one of the "adjustables"...









Ever see one with a "B" mark cast into it?


----------



## bandit571

13 cutters and a lidless box….$153..counting Sales Tax…..that about how much per cutter?


----------



## waho6o9

Around 11.76 per cutter


----------



## Ocelot

> 13 cutters and a lidless box…
> 
> - bandit571


Yo ho ho and a bottle of glue.

(couldn't resist)


----------



## 33706

I needed a chest to store my #55, so I built one:




































I gotta thank Bandit for the inspiration, I had my newly-acquired #55 and peripherals scattered everywhere. I'll be able to store Stanley literature inside the top, and store all those surplus #45 & #55 cutters I've accumulated over the years in one compartment. How I make the label transfers is an ancient family secret! Aww, just ask me. Measures 25" X 12" X 12".


----------



## HokieKen

Superb PK! Those transfers look fantastic!


----------



## 33706

*Thanks, Hokie! * Here's how I do them: First, beg,, borrow or steal an image that you want, then import it into 'Paint' or other graphics program you have. Or, create your own in MS Word, then jazz it up any way you wish. Next, the real secret: Print your finished image on 'Onion Skin Paper' using an ink-jet printer. It's getting to be pretty hard to find now, but most Staples or Michael's stocks onion skin paper. Then, my usual method on oak is to put on 2-3 coats of amber shellac, and smooth off with 0000 steel wool between coats. Then, when dry, one generous coat of clear gloss oil-based polyurethane. With the coat still wet, apply your onion-skin graphic directly to the wet poly. Incredibly, you can moosh the label around to straighten it or remove air bubbles in the wet poly. I use chisel tip foam brushes from the dollar store, and you can work out any air bubbles with them. The onion skin paper becomes virtually transparent when saturated with poly. And..ta-daaaa ….done!


----------



## HokieKen

So it's not exactly a transfer, the onion skin paper just turns transparent? That's fantastic! So much better than a crap shoot trying to actually make a transfer


----------



## 33706

> So it s not exactly a transfer, the onion skin paper just turns transparent? That s fantastic! So much better than a crap shoot trying to actually make a transfer
> 
> - HokieKen


Yup, truly the easy way out if you want to add graphics. I did a Stanley #34, with a new wooden sole I made, and after a disastrous attempt to duplicate the stamp on the toe with my letter punches, I sawed off that first 1/8" inch and used the onion skin method.


----------



## Johnny7

beautiful job on the box PK!


----------



## 33706

*TY, Johnny7!!*


----------



## Lazyman

I'll have to try that onion skin transfer. I've done a transfer from a ink jet that worked okay. I used the shiny backing paper from peal off printer labels (after you peal off the label). You have to mirror the image first of course. You print on the slick side of the backing and very quickly lay it face down and press it on with a roller or simply rub it on. You have to work fast before the ink dries which is what makes it a little tricky. You have to spray on a finish to prevent it from smearing.


----------



## 33706

> I ll have to try that onion skin transfer. I ve done a transfer from a ink jet that worked okay. I used the shiny backing paper from peal off printer labels (after you peal off the label). You have to mirror the image first of course. You print on the slick side of the backing and very quickly lay it face down and press it on with a roller or simply rub it on. You have to work fast before the ink dries which is what makes it a little tricky. You have to spray on a finish to prevent it from smearing.
> 
> - Lazyman


Nathan, I've tried that process, the reverse image on label backing sheet. The onion skin process beats it by a mile.


----------



## theoldfart

"I needed a chest to store my #55, so I built one"

Why yes you did and then some! Well done PK.


----------



## 33706

> "I needed a chest to store my #55, so I built one"
> 
> Why yes you did and then some! Well done PK.
> 
> - theoldfart


*Kevin,* you know as well as I do that it becomes easier to stack your hoard all the way to the ceiling when the tools are stuffed into nice square boxes.


----------



## theoldfart

Um, you might be onto something there.
Time to make the boxes.


----------



## DanKrager

Time to make the boxes. Thank you for your inspiration, PK, by making that wonderful box!

DanK


----------



## 33706

*Thanks, all!* I made the cube and then sliced the top away from the base, on the table saw. I have three dovetail jigs, they haven't seen the light of day in over 20 years. I cut them by hand, not perfect but getting better (I think) each time. I posted a pic above of my restored #34 to show another example of image transfer with onion skin paper.

Now the search is on for the few missing cutters that were part of the standard issue 53 for the #55. I think they're in the high #40's, I want this rig complete!


----------



## Lazyman

PK, Have you ever just put the onion skin into the shellac and skipped the poly? I may have to order some paper tomorrow. I can see this being handing on so many projects.


----------



## bandit571

Waiting on a box of cutters…supposed to get here this coming Saturday…we'll see how the Dog Sled Express does.

Box is from a Stanley No. 55…...a No. 2 box…...Sash cutter #1, has the 1/4" and 3/16" match cutters, and 10 straight cutters…..only thing that MIGHT be missing is the skinny No. 10 cutter….and it is missing the lid for the box. I think I MIGHT be able to cobble the lid….and, not too worried about that No. 10 cutter…

Intend to stash the cutter box in the new case,,,,between the back of the case, and the rods coming out of the fence.

Hmmmm…can set up both of my 45s…one for the tongue, and one for the groove…..should make things a bit easier?


----------



## 33706

> PK, Have you ever just put the onion skin into the shellac and skipped the poly? I may have to order some paper tomorrow. I can see this being handing on so many projects.
> 
> - Lazyman


I mention shellac only as a sealer to the raw wood. Shellac is not happy being in contact with onion skin. Plus, it dries too fast to get a consistent result over the entire label surface. The oil-based poly with the onion skin paper is a match made in heaven. I'd suggest getting your technique down to a science FIRST, then you can experiment to your hearts desire later on other projects. As I learned the hard way, it's simple enough to sand it all off and start over.


----------



## 33706

> e fence.
> 
> Hmmmm…can set up both of my 45s…one for the tongue, and one for the groove…..should make things a bit easier?
> 
> - bandit571


That's my plan as well, *Bandit! * I hate breaking down a set-up just to use another cutter. Easy enough to dedicate a #45 plane to a preferred configuration that you use often.


----------



## Mosquito

That's my excuse for having enough for each iron then


----------



## 33706

> That s my excuse for having enough for each iron then
> 
> - Mosquito


But you can't stop there, Mos!
I have enough braces to dedicate one to each size of tanged bits by 16th's. Reserves in general that I should never have to shop anywhere for tools, lumber or hardware for the rest of my life. It's just a compulsion. On the other hand, the outside temp has been hovering around the -30C mark for weeks on this frozen tundra, my truck hasn't been able to start in ten days. So, it's survival, not hoarding.


----------



## Mosquito

haha ouch, we've been slightly warmer than that here, but only by about 5°c on average lol

I think at the most I had around 35 #45's, but have pared that down to I think around 25 now (maybe 26? Where did THAT one come from? 27.  )


----------



## HokieKen

That one is the one you bought so you could send me the adjustable fence off it Mos.


----------



## Mosquito

haha, somehow, the only non-type-study plane I have with a micro adjust is my main user… I'll keep an eye out though. I have a repaired main casting for a micro adjust fence, but not the casting that holds the rosewood fence. At least I think I still have that part


----------



## HokieKen

I constantly have at least one 45 on my ebay watchlist to steal the fence from. So far I keep coming up empty. Guess I'll probably have to learn to live with the non-adjustable one or revise my budget expectations…

I've also decided that I really like the skewed blades of the 46 and that I also really like the 78 I've recently gotten. So I added a 289 to my wishlist. Holy crap. Those things don't go cheaply!


----------



## Mosquito

haha, no they do not. I had been wanting a #289 as well, but got dissuaded by the cost (and I suck at sharpening skew irons lol)


----------



## Lazyman

Mos, when do the museum tours start, complete with period craftsman (dressed for the time frame of the type being demoed) demonstrating the proper use of each of the cutters? Oh wait, Bandit is already doing that virtually.


----------



## HokieKen

> haha, no they do not. I had been wanting a #289 as well, but got dissuaded by the cost (and I suck at sharpening skew irons lol)
> 
> - Mosquito


I'm hoping patience will pay off and I can score one that's just the body with the blade, spurs and lever cap. I can make the fence rod and use my 78 fence with it and either use my 78 depth stop or make one.


----------



## bandit571

Stanley 45, T-20 was put to work, today…









Set up with a #12 cutter….fence set so the cutter is centered on a 3/4" wide board…









had 8 grooves to plough…....









Then had to sharpen up a second cutter..









A #22 bead cutter…was a bit too dull….bevel and back was worked on…then..









Plane was reset…sliding stock moved out a hair, fence moved in against the slider…reset the jig..









One bead…turn part around..









And do the other bead….one board done, 7 more to cut beads on….then do a mitered half lap at the corners….and have a pair of raised panel doors made….


----------



## Mosquito

ouch, gonna have to fight the grain on at least one of them when you've got to flip it around lol


----------



## bandit571

Just taking light cuts…..


----------



## Mosquito

oak is probably one of my favorites for that. When you take a light enough cut, you can still get nice shavings going the wrong way


----------



## theoldfart

^yup


----------



## donwilwol

I've never understood why oak gets a bad rap sometimes. Personally I love the stuff. I just made a bow from oak. Shoots great. I use it for almost everything.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I ve never understood why oak gets a bad rap sometimes.
> 
> - Don W


IMO, it's because oak was one of the defining styles of the 80s. Everything "just had to be" oak, so it was put everywhere and the public just got sick of seeing it everywhere.










I had a kitchen with quartersawn oak doors and most people couldn't recognize it as oak because it wasn't the usual golden, flatsawn stuff. Someone even commented one day that they would look better if they were oak. :-D


----------



## Mosquito

Agreed, and up here, I can actually get Oak as cheap or cheaper than poplar usually


----------



## bandit571

Currently working with Quarter Sawn Ash…$1 per board foot….and…it smells better than Oak…

Watching for the Mail to get here, today…..have a box of cutters coming….Stanley No. 55, Box No. 2, to be exact…


----------



## bandit571

Arrived today….took a while to get this out of all the shipping stuff…









There was, when new, a #10 cutter…long since MIA…not a biggie, happen to have one on hand…









Question now was….will this fit into the new case….









Perfect fit….but, will the plane also fit down in there…?









Everything loaded up, ready to go to work….

Does it matter, IF this is a box for a Stanley No. 55? Not really….


----------



## bandit571

As for the Type 20 box….I do have a replacement made…









To replace the box that the USPS used as a football….









This is the OEM box, shipped out of Roxton Pond, QUE. Canada….

It is now serving out it's retirement..as a box to hold all my Dremel stuff…


----------



## bandit571

Need to head for the shop after a bit….have a bunch of beads to mill…


----------



## DLK

Big box store oak is the the cheaper of the hardwoods that they sell here in SW Michigan. I think it is dried too fast which makes it a bit brittle, but for what I need to do I like it. I wish I could get maple, cherry and walnut as cheap. When summer comes maybe I'll pick some up from the bush lumber yards.


----------



## bandit571

Test fit…half lap mitered corner…









hmmm…









To….









two of these frames….wanted both beads to wrap around the frames…









Last bead is done…


----------



## KentInOttawa

That looks really good, Bandit.


----------



## 33706

> I constantly have at least one 45 on my ebay watchlist to steal the fence from. So far I keep coming up empty. Guess I ll probably have to learn to live with the non-adjustable one or revise my budget expectations…
> 
> I've also decided that I really like the skewed blades of the 46 and that I also really like the 78 I ve recently gotten. So I added a 289 to my wishlist. Holy crap. Those things don t go cheaply!
> 
> - HokieKen


Kenny, by left fence do you mean the micro-adjustable one? I'm airing out my #45 junk pile, and I think I have an extra.


----------



## HokieKen

OMG Poopiekat! That's exactly what I'm after. Been after one for about a year now  If you have a spare, I'm definitely interested.


----------



## 33706

You got it, Kenny! And of course I have a favor to ask of you: I have a Liberty Bell lever cap that came from a transitional. I want to use it in a #104 but it's too long, protrudes through the mouth. I'll toss it in the parcel if you're willing to mill off a bit of it. I still have your address, in fact this #104 will be using one of the awesome 'nibs' you machined for me. Done deal? Let me know.


----------



## HokieKen

That's absolutely a deal and with my gratitude Just strike a line on the lever cap or let me know how much to take off!


----------



## 33706

Signed, Sealed, and Ready for dispatch….no lie, my truck will undoubtedly not start, it is legitimately *-40* this morning… but they'll be on their way ASAP!!
On the Liberty Bell planes, the lever cap on the Transitionals is longer than what's on their iron equivalents.


----------



## rad457

Had -40 for a few mornings, put a dent in the wood pile, getting up to -20 for the afternoon. 
Got a #46 on the way, an order in place for the finest blades ever made


----------



## 33706

> Had -40 for a few mornings, put a dent in the wood pile, getting up to -20 for the afternoon.
> Got a #46 on the way, an order in place for the finest blades ever made
> 
> - Andre


Holy Moly, Andre, you're REALLY out there!! When I came to Canada, people laughed at me because I saw 110v plugs hanging out from under the hood… I get it now.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

So the other day, when I was working with the No. 45 to do some bead work on the cypress handrail destined for my dad's shop building…










I again struggled a bit with hand placement. But decided on a real nice place for the index finger of my grip (right) hand… It's in front of the handle, but behind the depth adjuster. A little triangle of cast iron…










Fingertip nestles right in there.










Not the revelation, but input for those who struggle a bit, finding a solid handle on the No. 45.


----------



## rad457

More importantly is where do you get your manicures done


----------



## Mosquito

Can't fool me Smitty, that first picture is a 46 

I totally do the exact same thing, especially favorable on the newer planes (12 and up) where the casting under it flares out a bit


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Can t fool me Smitty, that first picture is a 46
> 
> - Mosquito


Hah! You're right, didn't see that when I posted… foiled by the thumbnail pic! :-O


----------



## HokieKen

I don't have much trouble getting a hold of the 45. Or even the 46. Got any revelations on gripping the 78?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's been a short while since I worked with the 78, but you're right in that there's no obvious way to grip it with the left hand!


----------



## theoldfart

I've found the best way to grip my 405 is to not grip it. I let the handle settle in palm between the thumb and the rest of my hand and just push. Griping the plane, I find, tends to steer it and not necessarily straight I might add. Other hand just steadies the fence against the work. For me the same holds true for most of my handled planes. Just my take mind you.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very Zen, Kevin.

I actually wonder if it's really a one size fits all. Perhaps varying approaches needed at times, to address different materials. Hardwoods, pine, etc…


----------



## 33706

Excellent!


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, thickness and size of the cut will affect how much grip is required.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yep, those things too.

PK, I admit to being quite lucky to find the 45 I have, and in as complete a condition as it was. Didn't have much of a clue what I was getting until getting it in hand and doing some on-line research. It was a rush job in that it was a Craigslist find. Back when those actually existing. But disappeared fast.


----------



## bandit571

Palm of left hand goes on the top of the 78…..grip is almost like used on a wood bodied jack plane…the ones without a knob out front….otherwise, you wind up with a very sore left thumb.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

My left hand doesn't go over the top.


----------



## HokieKen

Same here Smitty. The thin web and the bed for the bullnose position are a terrible place to put your hand but that's about the only place I can and still get any purchase. I got some suggestions to make a knob that bolts to the bullnose bed and think that's exactly what I'll do.


----------



## bandit571

Hmm…









The Grip…









Seems to work…Ward Master Quality (Stanley) No. 78


----------



## HokieKen

You've got more manly hands than me Bandit!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I've seen those handles over the years, Kenny. It'd be an experience, but I wonder if they'd be distracting from the point of the front hand: steering the front of the tool down and into the work over the course of the cut.


----------



## theoldfart

That handle keeps the left hand too high to me. Like Smitty said, the left hand( if your a righty) should keep the plane fence against the work. That high placement would encourage the plane to tip off of vertical to my mind.


----------



## OleGrump

I got me one a them there "Indeen" rabbet planes (I can say that, Mrs. Grump is from New Delhi….) I bought it in 1999 when assembling my "Y2K traditional Hand Tool Kit" (Remember back then, folks thought Civilization as we know it would crumble, when all the computer run facilities crapped out…..???)
I use it every so often and have been very satisfied with it's performance. You are right though, it does take a little getting used to using that forward knob…. Otherwise, works very well!


----------



## HokieKen

I would actually be more likely to hook the crook between my thumb and palm in the radius under the ball I think. That's pretty much how I use the knobs on my 45 and 46. It's not that I'm looking for somewhere to grab as much as somewhere I can put my hand to push down and over to keep the nose in the cut and the fence registered. I agree with y'all that using the knob like the knob on a bench plane would do more harm than good.


----------



## drsurfrat

Craftsman solved it with this comfortable, ergonomic front knob… handle… stump?


----------



## HokieKen

That's not terrible Mike. It's better than just the cast iron!


----------



## Mosquito

I usually jamb my thumb under the rear iron bed when I hold my #78, but I also don't use it a ton


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I don't have much trouble getting a hold of the 45. Or even the 46. Got any revelations on gripping the 78?
> 
> - HokieKen


I love the front knob on mine and swear that it's the best thing that you can do to these planes besides sharpening them. I prefer my Record 778 which came without one but added the front knob from my WS Birmingham when I bought that one.

That's not to say that everyone likes or uses them. Here's a shot of Paul Sellers using one but not using the knob.










Sargent even cast in a front "knob" on their 78. I believe that they also made them under the Craftsman label.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^^ I had one of those horned devils in my shop for a little while. Can't say it was better than sliced bread.


----------



## bandit571

More hinge work tonight….









Clean up after the mallet and chisel….


----------



## Ocelot

Does anyone need one of these?
I have a spare.


----------



## bandit571

The 2 I have are both #1 sash Cutters…..Kind of hard to find a #2..and $$$$!....


----------



## Ocelot

Well I better clean the rust off and see which it is, but I think it's a no 1.


----------



## bandit571

If I were to guess…









The Type 20 cutter on the left has been quite abuse..while the other has never been sharpened, let alone used..









It is a bit wider, too…The Type 20 has the "1" stamp….the other does not…
It came with this No.2 SW box of cutters…









Hmmm…


----------



## Ocelot

Bandit,

I see that's a 55 box of cutters.

I've got a sash cutter that came with my 45, and which I'll probably never use. So it's enough for me.

This one came with some chisels I bought last year. I was trying to give it away, but it seems nobody's interested unless I clean it up first. So I'll try to get it into evaporust tonight.

-Paul


----------



## HokieKen

Appreciate the offer Paul but I have the one that came with my 45 and doubt I'll ever use that one. Can't see any use for another…


----------



## bandit571

It seems that the first 2 boxes are for both the 45 and the 55….same cutters….it's #3 and #4 where things go weird…

Not sure why that one cutter is so much narrower than the other….both seem to be the same age…..?

Sent a PM….


----------



## HokieKen

Ahhhhh. Now I feel complete.









Muchos Gracias Poopiekat!


----------



## Lazyman

Looks like it wants to be a 55 when it grows up.


----------



## controlfreak

I cut a 1/4" groove 3/8" deep with a 45 this week and I believe it is better quality than a dado blade would have done. It was a faster setup than putting the dado stack on and dialing in too.

Next up is the rabbet to side into it, a 78 or a 45 for that hmmmm.


----------



## bandit571

And…was fun to do, too….


----------



## 33706

> Ahhhhh. Now I feel complete.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muchos Gracias Poopiekat!
> 
> - HokieKen


I know it went to a good home, *Kenny!* did you find the Liberty lever cap?


----------



## bandit571

Long grain….Stanley 45, no spurs needed

Across the grain (end grain) Stanley 78….spur is needed.








Ploughing the grooves, and..









Rebate fitting…
Note: Do the end grain first, then the long grain….


----------



## HokieKen

Yep PK, I have the cap too  My mill has been making a funny noise that I don't care for so I'm going to tear down the head and check the bearings before I run it any more and take a chance on doing any damage. As soon as I get that done and get it back up and running, I'll get her done and headed back north for you!


----------



## controlfreak

"Rebate fitting…
Note: Do the end grain first, then the long grain…."

Thanks for the tip Bandit, ironically this will be the the fist use of the 78 since you sent me the thumb screw to attach the depth stop, can't wait!


----------



## 33706

A dumb question for the forum: I'll be making some 3/4" thick cabinet doors with glass inserts, but I don't want to do these stile and rail joints with a router. I want to use my #45 or #55, with a sash cutter, but what do people use to make the corresponding cope cut? Is there a cutter out there that I'm not aware of?


----------



## Mosquito

> A dumb question for the forum: I ll be making some 3/4" thick cabinet doors with glass inserts, but I don t want to do these stile and rail joints with a router. I want to use my #45 or #55, with a sash cutter, but what do people use to make the corresponding cope cut? Is there a cutter out there that I m not aware of?
> 
> - poopiekat


Scribing plane was one of the ways to do it, but what I would probably do is what Roy talks about in the 2011-2012 Season Simple Sash Episode of Woodwrights Shop.

Basically, you cut the molding away except 1/4"-3/8" that will be coped over by the just the beginning of the other piece with a gouge. Around 20 minutes in is where he gets to it


----------



## 33706

> A dumb question for the forum: I ll be making some 3/4" thick cabinet doors with glass inserts, but I don t want to do these stile and rail joints with a router. I want to use my #45 or #55, with a sash cutter, but what do people use to make the corresponding cope cut? Is there a cutter out there that I m not aware of?
> 
> - poopiekat
> 
> Scribing plane was one of the ways to do it, but what I would probably do is what Roy talks about in the 2011-2012 Season Simple Sash Episode of Woodwrights Shop.
> 
> Basically, you cut the molding away except 1/4"-3/8" that will be coped over by the just the beginning of the other piece with a gouge. Around 20 minutes in is where he gets to it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito


*Thanks, Mos!* good stuff.
So I can conclude that there really is no definitive sash/cope bit, and that I should miter the quarter-round part of the profile to 45 degrees to get a gap-free joint? Yep, I had not considered that, but I can live with the additional fussiness of a hand cut bit of the profile to achieve the look I want. It's a shame to leave those big sash cutters unused in the box. This is for some cabinet doors with multi-pane glass inserts with mullions.


----------



## Mosquito

Sounds like a fun project. Looking forward to seeing it, if you post it. I hope to do something similar for a display cabinet in the shop. Want to get some planes behind glass and out of some of the dust in the shop


----------



## bandit571

The Veritas 1/4" cutter for my router plane is sceduled to arrive tomorrow, via Buster Brown Truck (UPS)....guess I will be sitting by the mailbox..tomorrow…


----------



## Mosquito

Nice, I got a whole small iron set in late last week  Already had a 1/4", so the new one with the set will be the first victim


----------



## bandit571

Arrived just after 3pm..


















Flip the adjuster wheel over…









And see IF this still fits into the case…









Along with the 1/2" straight cutter…









Works for me…


----------



## rad457

The #46 showed up time for some cleaning and more box building? She be a pretty little thing even dirty and all.


----------



## bandit571

This cutter arrived the other day…









A No. 1 Sash cutter…as somebody had an extra they wanted to get rid of….it will replace another No.1









I'll place the depth stop in one of the cases…and toss the worn out cutter….even IF I could sharpen it up correctly…would not leave enough steel..









Time to retire it…


----------



## controlfreak

I suspect my sash cutter as most was never used (I hope). I want to give it a run and see what it can do.


----------



## bandit571

Used one a while back…









Plywood top for the dresser in the shop, needed a frame to sit in….Panel sits down in the rebate..









Rebate wasn't quite wide enough….used a normal plane to remove the rest…









And with the 1/4" plywood panel glued and nailed in place…









Been in the shop, ever since….


----------



## bandit571

Ok…here is something to think about…









45 is using a #12 (1/4") cutter for that groove…..I thought I could chase it with the Veritas 1/4" cutter in the #71-1/2…...Veritas won't fit, so….unless the Stanley cutter is too worn down along the edges ( doubt it).....hmmm?

Needed to set the groove to match the rebate…..to house a compartment floor…best way..









Used a plywood scrap to check alignment…









One more corner to do…









Space below is for a drawer….need to plough grooves for the floor the drawer will slide in on….


----------



## HokieKen

Do you have a caliper or something you can measure the blades with Bandit? I'd be curious to know which blade is off. If it's the Veritas and it's measurably oversized, I'd probably reach out to CS and see about a replacement since you just bought it. If the 45 blade is undersized, I doubt Stanley will replace it ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Dial calipers…Stanley = 0.250", Veritas = 0.252"

Just enough, that it will not slide into the #12's groove. The Stanley cutter over in that #2 box…badly sharpened BTW, is 0.251"......and, I do not sharpen the sides of the cutters….as they need to have a slight clearance bevel.

May sharpen the old #12….it is stamped with a "T"......maybe as part of a T&G set? We'll see…can always "stone" a bit off the width of the Veritas cutter….









And, yes I did order the 1/4" width cutter….not the Metric one..


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I'm sure that's within Veritas' tolerance. A light stoning should fix the fit.


----------



## bandit571

Ok, a tale of 2 cutters. The #12 actually came out at 0.249". Dug out a similar one from the other Stanley 45 box..









Instead of a 12, it is stamped with a "T"..ok….set the two cutters up..









And the "T" cutter even looked wider? Measured out at 0.251….needed sharpened up, bevel wasn't even close to flat, and little too rounded. Back needed to be flatter, to…place it in the 45 for a test run…









Ok…not too bad….took a stone to the side of the Veritas…









And…it fits!......while doing all those resets on the Stanley 45….changed the rods 3 times! Got tired of thumbscrews that needed a pair of pliers to turn..









The ones on the sliding stock were the worst…happen to have a pair of slotted bolts handy, that would fit…swapped them out with the retired thumbscrews…as for the other two..









About all I can do for now, is yank them both out, clean all the crud in the threads, a drop of 3in1 oil, and put them back in place…..the rear one is a bit chewed up on it's pointy end.. better than they were, still need the pliers…









I can now use this instead of a pair of pliers, at least on the sliding stock…..need to shop for new bolts for the fence, next…


----------



## DonBroussard

My wife and I went to several flea markets and antique stores last weekend and I saw a pretty nice Stanley 55-not pristine but no visible rust. I didn't see a set of irons, and it was priced at $495. That's a pass from me.


----------



## Mosquito

ouch, that would be a pass for me too, thankfully I've only got 2 #55's, and no intentions of maintaining a collection of those…

I even sold one to Kev to try to make myself believe that


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, 55's in general are out of my league. I'd never have the patience to make a user of one with all the parts and setup.


----------



## Johnny7

After nearly two and a half decades of tool hoarding, everyone I know is aware of my problem. As a result, at least 3 or 4 times a year, I come home to find tools left at my front door.

Earlier today, an anonymous donor left this. It sure looks like an early japanned No 46, but there's not a mark anywhere. Are the earliest Stanleys unmarked (or marked on a part I'm missing)?

The other reason I'm posting is to ask exactly what fence I should look for.
(I know that it's missing it's spur, both rods, and of course, a fence and I'm guessing a slitter goes where I've drawn a red arrow)

Somewhere, I have a set of 46 cutters from the late '20s and I'm guessing they'll work.

apologies for the flash photography


----------



## Ocelot

Oh Johnny, unfortunately I'm the only one here and I don't know much about anything.


----------



## Ocelot

But if it's not skewed, it's not a 46.


----------



## Johnny7

> Oh Johnny, unfortunately I m the only one here and I don t know much about anything.
> 
> - Ocelot


I think you're selling yourself short.

But it was sure nice of you to drop in and say "Hi."

btw, it is skewed.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice score Johnny  Mos is the guy who will know for sure but, I'm pretty sure you need the fence/skate combination for that one. The separate skate and fence came along later I think.

There is a sliiter and a depth stop that go where you drew the arrow. They are held with a brass thumbnut that threads onto the end of the rear fence rod that sticks out there. You need the spur and screw there and there will be a second one on the moving skate.

The spurs and blades are not cheap. Honestly, you'll probably be better off to look for a complete plane rather than the individual pieces.


----------



## Mosquito

Yup, the combination fence+skate is what you're looking for










Honestly, it's missing more expensive parts than the parts you have, unfortunately. But that era of #46 was not marked, so you're not missing anything there


----------



## Johnny7

Thanks *HK* and *Mos*-much appreciated!

just so I can be on the lookout, is this the fence I want?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Orig-Left-Fence-for-Early-Stanley-No-46-Plane-Type-3-Screws-mjdtoolparts/124641226671?hash=item1d05322faf:g:64YAAOSwuzFgUwmy

(NOT the price I want)


----------



## Mosquito

That's half of it (the cheap half, though that one is over-priced in my opinion)

These are both complete (be mindful that the screws are there, those often go for $25-$35+ EACH, if you can actually find them)

First Fence

Second Fence


----------



## Johnny7

*Mos*

Thanks for the detailed explanation (with links)!


----------



## Lazyman

MJDTOOLPARTS is almost always the most expensive source for plane parts from what I have seen. Their stuff is set at the "but I want it now" price.


----------



## Ocelot

> I think you re selling yourself short.
> 
> - Johnny7


Actually I'm 5-11

I don't have a 46 and this place has been rather forty sixated lately.


----------



## HokieKen

You know how to resolve that problem Paul ;-)


----------



## drsurfrat

The rods are special, too. One has a longer threaded section too that it sticks out to take the slitter parts that Kenny pointed out. And the spacing is different that No45's, so you can't frenken-plane it.
And if you find a skate alone, make sure that it has keyholes for the fence. Like Mos said, maybe find a complete plane…


----------



## HokieKen

From what I've gathered about Johnny in the forums, we don't have to worry about him Frankenplaning it ;-)


----------



## Johnny7

*HK*
Apparently, I'm an open book (or maybe just a pamphlet)

*Dr Surfrat*,
Thanks for that-the photos are enlightening


----------



## Ocelot

> You know how to resolve that problem Paul ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Oh yeah, *that* problem I can solve.

The harder problem is to figure out how to get myself to actually finish a woodworking project.
I've bought 4 grooving tools since I last incorporated a groove into a finished project.
Stanley 45, 50, Record 043 and an early american screw-arm plow plane.

Also, I can groove with 4 routers, the table saw, and in a pinch with a circular saw.
So, yeah, I'll probably buy a 46.

I'm really itching to make another motor freight order for lumber too, but I've got no place to put it.

-Paul


----------



## HokieKen

Well I've bought a 46 and made about 30 blades for it since then and only cut one groove. And that was just to test the blade hardness…


----------



## DevinT

> MJDTOOLPARTS is almost always the most expensive source for plane parts from what I have seen. Their stuff is set at the "but I want it now" price.
> 
> - Lazyman


When I needed a 2 5/8" type 11 blade with Stanley "V" logo to replace the original blade in my No 8 which had almost been worn down to a nub, mjdtoolparts had it and nobody else did. Because of them, I can keep my No 8 stocked with original period parts. The blade cost me $65 but I think it was well worth it to keep the plane collectible (should someone want to collect it after I am done using it-perhaps when I die).


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, that's their market so they can charge higher prices. I typically ignore thier listings but sometimes if you want it, you want it and want it now.


----------



## Lazyman

Yeah, I get that. What bugs me is that it looks like they buy complete planes and break them down to sell in pieces. Perfectly their right to do so but I avoid encouraging that approach as I think it tends to drive the prices for us suckers even higher.


----------



## Mosquito

They definitely do Nathan. In talking with a number of the local MWTCA meet regular dealers (back when we were allowed to have those), they would say the same thing. They'd see planes that they themselves would buy to later sell, get bought and parted out same day at some of the bigger swap meets and what not. One of them got pretty hot talking about it too


----------



## HokieKen

Can't really blame them yoo much for trying to make a buck. And they're providing a service for those than need to complete a tool and just can't find that one part. And you have to account for the time the spend acquiring the tools then taking them apart and listing each part individually. But it does suck for the market on the whole both in skewing the market value and in reducing the availability of complete tools in original condition.


----------



## Ocelot

They used to or still have large in person auctions a few times a year.

Martin J. Donnelly auction company.


----------



## drsurfrat

Johnny7-
And sorry, the only extra parts I have for the 46 is the blade-holding bolt and thumbscrew, which is one of the few parts that you DO have.


----------



## Johnny7

> Johnny7-
> And sorry, the only extra parts I have for the 46 is the blade-holding bolt and thumbscrew, which is one of the few parts that you DO have.
> 
> - drsurfrat


I appreciate the thought.


----------



## theoldfart

This spam is getting old.


----------



## rad457

> This spam is getting old.
> 
> - theoldfart


Yup, saw it again so blocked it, problem solved?


----------



## Mosquito

I block them as soon as I see them too, but I didn't see this one until it commented on this thread…

But hey, if they sign up, and make posts, that's an active member right? Good for advertising….

Hell, for all we know, they're paying advertisers with LJ lol


----------



## garethmontreal

Anyone in California heads up.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2289119337998719/permalink/2948627662047880/?sale_post_id=2948627662047880

The mother load of planes at least one type 1 45 I think


----------



## Mosquito

From California and in that facebook group. Appears to be private so we can't see it if not in the group


----------



## BenDupre

Currently $275 hammer drops in 55 min


----------



## bandit571

Bead work….IF I set the fence just right….









Using a #22 bead cutter, go along one edge….then turn the part around, and run down the other edge…









I wind up with a 3rd bead right done the middle….between the 2 beads I actually milled. Run a bit of sandpapper down all the "grooves" to finish the look…

Your "Tip for today"


----------



## Mosquito

Do you actually set up and run down the middle, or do you just round the corners with sandpaper then? I have a couple of reeding cutters that I'd use, but those were all irons I got with other things by accident lol


----------



## bandit571

5 treads to do…10 passes was enough…beads were close enough that the center "bead" did not need a pass. Cleaned all the grooves with a folded piece of sandpaper..


----------



## bandit571

was bidding on a 3pc set of plough plane irons…was…someone wanted them WAY more than I did…oh well..


----------



## Mosquito

which ones were you looking for? I thought you had a full set of 45 irons


----------



## theoldfart

Just FYI, Bode has a set of H&R's for the 45 for just, wait for it, $995! So go get 'em kids!


----------



## bandit571

G. Rosebloom Plough plane…I am using a modified 1/4" chisel for the iron….would have been nice to have a real iron for it….Plane was made down in Cincinnati, Oh back about 1865 or so…


----------



## nesagwa

I needed a replacement label for the cutters for my Type 8 and couldn't find a good scan or reproduction, so I sat and made my own today.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/120FzIIK2ahYRFoatNCCNNLaj5tAj30iP

Not 100% accurate, but close enough for my personal use so I thought I would share. There is a small "reproduction" label embedded off to one side.

Feel free to use or share.


----------



## DLK

Nice labels, and I have saved them. *grafrazee* also made labels.
But it looks like you can't download them anymore. 
I apparently saved them. All are .png (I think) so they should resize well if necessary.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MYfKn75ierh3hUkXHcaHbPfiI_Q0ndpk/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1io33n9SQEUpz22Nru1LKFT2YqS-oKPvC/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tqsOoQ-qoRtx3kJs9oCWOX5kXnqTp7Oz/view?usp=sharing


----------



## Mosquito

I see you found what you were looking for Soon.

The last link in the original post in this thread is a link to a Google drive folder that Kenny put together with all of our collaborative efforts so far. Perhaps he can add nesagwa's, nice work!


----------



## nesagwa

I kind of messed up while applying the modpodge (should have used heavier stock paper), but here it is attached to the case.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks great to my eyes! Nice job.


----------



## HokieKen

I grabbed nesgawa's labels (very nice work BTW) to the google drive folder linked in the OP. Let me know if you would prefer I don't host them there nesgawa!


----------



## nesagwa

> I grabbed nesgawa s labels (very nice work BTW) to the google drive folder linked in the OP. Let me know if you would prefer I don t host them there nesgawa!
> 
> - HokieKen


I made them to be shared, so absolutely!


----------



## theoldfart

So, why aren't there any Record 405 labels?

I'm feeling slighted. Sniff ;-(

Anyway just committed to getting a full set of Record H&R's with original boxes!

So I may have a couple of duplicates for sale in the near future.


----------



## drsurfrat

> So, why aren't there any Record 405 labels?
> I'm feeling slighted. Sniff ;-(
> - theoldfart


'cause you didn't make any, or give us a pic so we could duplicate  I can try if you've got pics…


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, I was just being a wise ass. I may make some pics after the new stuff arrives.


----------



## drsurfrat

Me too.
I enjoy making them, so if you want to post pics or scans, I will give it a try. But mine rent near as good as nesgawa's…


----------



## Mosquito

Unfortunately for me Kevin, I'm pretty sure there's 2 things working against me on you having extras being a good thing for me…


I'm pretty sure we've both been searching for #12's lol 
My tool collector OCD makes me only hunt for bases with the flat thumb screws instead of the newer knurled ones. Which seem to beharder to find than the knurled


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, I haven't seen them yet. Patrick mentioned them as an aside in the description for the 405 he's selling. I dropped him a line and he agreed to sell them. The ones I currently have are the knurled screws. We'll see what comes in. I just finished using mine to make some small replacement moldings on a mantle I've been restoring so I'm fired up!


----------



## Mosquito

Nice I did see him mention that with the 405, but I had my eye (and wallet open) for a couple other things on the list this month lol Only got 2 out of the 3, but that's ok, more for next time


----------



## DanKrager

You finally catching up, TOF? 



























DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, two sets of bases and two sets of basic cutters?


----------



## DanKrager

Looks that way to me, too. LOL! It's a trick of photography…. one set of H&R and a tread bullnose. I took a picture and realized I didn't get the bullnose in it, so I took another. But yes, there are two sets of cutters in the pouches. And a couple blades I don't recognize.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Which ones Dan?


----------



## DanKrager

The two under the plane in the picture. It's been a long time since I've opened these up so it's possible they've already been passed on. Just CRS anymore.

DanK


----------



## Lazyman

I just lost a bid on some Sargent 1080 cutters and the person who outbid me in the last minute of the auction immediately offered a second chance to buy it now for the price that they just paid won it for ($1 more than my bid). Huh? Anyone ever have that happen?


----------



## Mosquito

So you lost, and got a Second Chance Offer for the price the winning bid got it for? I didn't know that could happen… I thought the second chance offer had to be what your bid was, not the winner. The second chance offer is something that I thought was used when it either didn't meet reserve, the original winner doesn't pay/the seller cancels, or I think if they have multiples…

If it was immediate, I would send them a message and see whats up, but don't ask leading questions like "Do you have a second one or something?" just to see what their response is. I'm always skeptical on eBay, so my thought immediately goes to "fake account, to drive up the bid to your max, so you can't win it for less than your max bid", but that might just be me…


----------



## Lazyman

You are right, Mos. I forgot that I decided at the last minute to make my bid a dollar more.

Just looked at the winning bidder and I suspect that it was a fake account driving up the bid. In fact, it almost looks like they used 2 accounts to drive up the bid. The winner came in at the last minute and added multiple bids until they won. An earlier bidder shows that 33% of their bidding in the last 30 days was for this seller and the winner 57%. That might not suspicious if they didn't immediately make the second chance offer. I may just offer them what my bid was before they started driving it up depending what they say happened.


----------



## Mosquito

Couldn't hurt to try. I think there's likely a way to report that to eBay, but I doubt they'd actually do anything about it, in all honesty. It's good for them, as the fees are calculated off the sale value. Unfortunate, and I'm probably jaded, but it is what it is out there…


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> I just lost a bid on some Sargent 1080 cutters and the person who outbid me in the last minute of the auction immediately offered a second chance to buy it now for the price that they just paid won it for ($1 more than my bid). Huh? Anyone ever have that happen?
> 
> - Lazyman


Random users sending PM with "second chance" offers after bidding ends is a scam. 
Read the Second Chance FAQ online. Only the original seller can offer legitimate second chance offers. 
If second chance is not from original listing owner, report it to Fleabay.

FWIW - Fleabay changed sale cancellation rules in 2021 and made it easy for seller to cancel sales. Seller with multiple accounts can bid up an item, cancel sale; then offer it up via winning losers account as a second chance outside of fleabay listing to avoid paying fees. The abusive buyer process is only triggered when seller reports a bad buyer. So his fake bidder accounts can last long time.

Hate fleabay lately. Wood working hand tool prices are over inflated, sellers cancelling 'buy it now' orders when they realize the price was too low, or free shipping is too high.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Yep, sounds to me like the seller is also the buyer. I hate that stuff. What happened to honest people just living a good clean life?


----------



## Lazyman

It was the original seller who offered the second chance. I asked him what happened with the winning bidder and he replied:
*
I HAVE SOLD THESE TO THE WINNER BUT I HAVE A TON MORE IF YOU ARE INTERTESTED IM OFFERING YOU AS CLOSE TO THE SAME AS POSSIBLE GLAD TO SEND A PIC MY BEST PETE*

He's got a bunch of other planes listed and very positive reviews so maybe it is legit but it just seems a little fishy the way it happened.


----------



## Mosquito

I know exactly who you're buying from based on that message. He is legit, but his practices are shady AF if you ask me. Pete Niederberger.

I tried buying some stuff from him, asked if he had other parts (since the listing said he did). He told me to buy a cheap thumb screw that he'd list and then he'd cancel the order, so he could get the e-mail address… I already had his e-mail address from elsewhere, so I just e-mailed him about the parts.

He was obnoxiously difficult to work with in that his communication skills (at least written/typed) are terrible, and had a hard time figuring out what I wanted vs what he actually had (he sent me a few pictures, measured a bunch of stuff incorrectly, and left it up me to figure out). I eventually got a list together, and we agreed on a price.

The deal fell through when he refused to take payment through PayPal as "For Goods or Services", *even when I paid the extra fee*. He said "his accountant told him to always use friends or family"... That's where I drew the line and walked way.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Tried to avoid income taxes. I don't blame him but again, just not the honest way to do things.

Thanks for the PSA fellas.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, I knew what he was trying to do, taxes and paypal fees, but seeing as how I had never bought from him before, I was not going to "Friends and Family" $750 over lol

After he got in a huff over that, a couple days later he e-mailed back and said he would ship the pieces one at a time if I preferred to pay for one at a time to avoid sending it all at once. I told him I would, but my new offer was $600 for the hassle, and he never responded


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I would have done exactly the same as you did. No question. $750 friends and family to a stranger….nah.


----------



## Mosquito

it was funny when I told him I wouldn't send it friends and family unless he shipped first and I paid when they got here. He said, essentially, Why would he trust sending me everything when he never met me and no guarantee to pay once I got them. Ironic, really.


----------



## Lazyman

Yup that's him. With those practices I would not be surprised if he bid up his own item. I decided to report him. I have very little hope that ebay will do anything but it makes me feel better.


----------



## donwilwol

Actually in the collector circle Pete is pretty well known. I've dealt with him but his prices are pretty high and he's really old school. I don't think he'd intentionally stiff you, but if it doesn't feel right, I'd have done the same thing


----------



## theoldfart

Eight little boxes all in a row, well sort of!


----------



## Mosquito

> Actually in the collector circle Pete is pretty well known. I ve dealt with him but his prices are pretty high and he s really old school. I don t think he d intentionally stiff you, but if it doesn t feel right, I d have done the same thing
> 
> - Don W


Exactly Don. That's how I had his e-mail address already. He's always got an ad running in the Gristmill, and I know a lot of dealers/collectors from MWTCA know of him too.


----------



## Mosquito

Awesome Kev! No nosing tool? Hunt is still on


----------



## sansoo22

I've had more issues on ebay lately with piss poor shipping methods than anything else. Had a #31 show up today and was packaged diagonally in a box it just barely fit in. Not nearly enough packing materials and thus both corners of the box were blown out. The sole has a BIG chip in the heel.

I want to be angry at the post office but that box was a terrible idea. Its overall volume was like 10 times what the plane took up…it just happened to barely fit diagonally so the seller stuffed in there and hoped for the best.

I was due for something bad to happen I guess. The Rockford R7 I picked up 8 minutes after it listed. It was an auction with a starting bid of $70 but also had a "make an offer option". I HATE bidding. I have never once found a deal that way so I tossed out a $100 with a note stating I was a collector and user of Rockford/Marsh planes. Accepted in like 2 minutes. The plane looks like dirty old barn ass but solid and complete with nearly full length iron.


----------



## Mosquito

All this talk of dodgy eBay makes me look forward to the first Area A MWTCA meet in over a year next weekend!

Anyone looking for anything?


----------



## sansoo22

Speaking of needs I need to renew my MWTCA membership. And also anyone need one of these for a #45?



















I picked it up in a lot of parts and have no use for it at all. PM me an address and its yours.


----------



## Mosquito

looks in nice shape. Wonder how it got separated from its plane lol


----------



## theoldfart

^ 72 1/2
444
Actually I need to pay the boxes before I buy anything else.
Patrick implied if he had it it would have been included., implying he'd get one on his next English trip.


----------



## sansoo22

> looks in nice shape. Wonder how it got separated from its plane lol
> 
> - Mosquito


I got it in a lot of #45 parts. I was missing some bits for an older style #45 that a fellow LJ member gifted me. This practically unused later model part was in with those.

I'm trying really hard not to be a #45 collector. I already have 2 and if I keep the spare parts around its a reason to buy more spare parts to build a third.


----------



## Mosquito

> ^ 72 1/2
> 444
> Actually I need to pay the boxes before I buy anything else.
> Patrick implied if he had it it would have been included., implying he'd get one on his next English trip.
> 
> - theoldfart


I'll keep an eye out :-D

It seems buying Record stuff from someone who goes over and buys in bulk is the way to do it these days. I was looking at a bunch of stuff, 050, 044, 041, 042, etc and it seemed like shipping often hovered around $40-$50+ and that is just annoying



> I got it in a lot of #45 parts. I was missing some bits for an older style #45 that a fellow LJ member gifted me. This practically unused later model part was in with those.
> 
> I m trying really hard not to be a #45 collector. I already have 2 and if I keep the spare parts around its a reason to buy more spare parts to build a third.
> 
> - sansoo22


I have at least two spare ones, if you don't want to try too hard ;-)


----------



## controlfreak

I also have 2 45's Sansoo, I spotted the second one in the next town for $75. I claimed it was missing some parts and offered $50. She took it but all the parts are there as far as I can tell so I was just assuming it did because the pictures were not very good. Funny thing is that it was listed for well over a year and it took us 3 months to get together for purchase


----------



## garethmontreal

All this talk of dodgy sales and poor packaging I thought I'd share my recent experience. First got ripped of on Facebook for 150 bucks (I am an idiot my own fault friends and family) for a no 2 unfortunately I wasn't the only one. But I managed to to find out his real name address phone number and criminal record and reported him so there is that at least. Live and learn.
Right after I got a great deal in eBay 40 bucks for no 8 type crusty and dirty but totally worth it.









Here's how it arrived… A couple pieces of paper to cushion the blows.

Here's how it looked straight out the box.



























Here's how it looks part way through working on it


















Big smiles on my face all in all


----------



## HokieKen

That's $40 well spent Gareth!


----------



## bandit571

Stanley #45…..one for ploughing a groove…









And the other set up to mill dados….









Had a drawer to build, today…









Needed both to be done…before I could fit the drawer…


















Trouble, today…..box happened to get pushed onto the floor….Father Murphy returned..









Made a perfect one-point landing…..on it's opened lid….plane and the box of cutters had been already removed….and…the clothes dryer this box was sitting on, wasn't even running at the time…grrrr. Must have been the breeze of me walking by. Will replace with some strap hinges…..


----------



## Bearcontrare

Mos,

I'm reminded of my church-going mother, who had way of breaking dishes. We'd hear a crash, then Mom yelling " DAMN IT!!! Why the Hell do all the GOOD dishes break….???? You get a chip in a coffee cup, and the sunnuva bitch lasts FOREVER! Something GOOD breaks in a heartbeat."

I feel your pain, brother. I know you worked hard on that beautiful box with nice decal and had only farly recently completed it…. This news was enough to make several of us want to cry…..


----------



## Mosquito

I assume you meant bandit? Been a while since I've had a broken box lol


----------



## garethmontreal

bought these 45s like a year ago on uk ebay. My friend finally shipped them. Its been so long i forgot their condition. Worth the wait.



























,


----------



## drsurfrat

Wow, that is a nice haul. Christmas in May. I wish Stanley had made the box big enough hold an *assembled* plane.


----------



## Mosquito

The metal clam-shell box could hold an assembled plane so long as it was the short rods


----------



## sansoo22

> The metal clam-shell box could hold an assembled plane so long as it was the short rods
> 
> - Mosquito


The late model cardboard box will hold one assembled with short rods as well. Although you have to be a master at tetris if you want to do that.


----------



## garethmontreal

Im spoiled
The first 45 i ever bought came in this user made case. It fits fully assembled ready to go.









0


----------



## Mosquito

It's true Sansoo, but it's so obnoxious I usually don't count that one lol

That's a pretty sweet looking box, smaller looking than the user made one I found. It looks like a mini English chest.

I made one that barely fits a 45 with long rods, but nothing to write home about


----------



## DavePolaschek

The sliding top half on the Veritas combo plane box is nice, but the fact that you, or at least I, always have to move the rods one way or another to get it to fit in the box is kind of a pain.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mos, know anything about those shim-like pieces shown is this pic?


----------



## Mosquito

Hmm, not something I've run across with a #45 or 55 yet, though I'm not as well versed with #55 types as I am #45s. It's hard to tell, but it almost looks like the diameter of the hole is smaller than the rods?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's from a plane listing on the bay currently. 45 IOB. I've not seen those before either…


----------



## Airframer

I just made some new blade boxes for my 45 blades. Does anyone have a lead on some printable replacement labels? My google foo seems to be failing me today.


----------



## drsurfrat

In the original post theist line isa link to Kenny's drive with a bunch of label images. Scroll back up…


----------



## HokieKen

What he said^ Last link in the OP


----------



## adot45

I doubt if any of you guys missed this 45 but here it is anyway…. item# 254990255793 on "that auction site".


----------



## Bearcontrare

This is the oldest 45 in the collection. I'm asking the experts this question. This one has the screw in type arms. Is it worth trying to find the shorter arms for this plane, or would it just be a big headache.
This is not the main user, I got it because of the attractive designs on the castings. Hafta be honest about it. It's old and pretty, so it's here.


----------



## Bearcontrare

This photo wouldn't post the first time.


----------



## Mosquito

A type 2, nice.

Whether or not it's worth getting short arms is a matter of how you intend to use it. I like using short arms whenever I can get away with it, just because there's less sticking out from the plane. That said, if it's occasional use, then probably not worth it, since there's nothing you can do with the short rods that you can't with the long.


----------



## bandit571

Needed to plow a dado, today…..so…









Had to install the LONG rods….which was "fun".....methinks this is a type 4? Slotted Brass bolts….









Spurs need a bit of work….or just replaced with new….


----------



## RWE

I have a friend who is into timber framing. He is building a timber framed barn/workshop now. He wants a 45 for a project that is upcoming.

I have 3 45's. Two have the adjustable fences. Between the three, I have two fairly full sets of irons. So I am thinking of selling the friend one of the 45's with the adjustable fence and a set of irons.

Can anyone toss me out a price range that would be a "friend" price on the low end and on the high end, the Ebay bid up price for a 45 and irons, adjustable fence model.

Also, how do you check the history of Ebay sales for an item to see the prices an item sells for.

Thanks


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> Also, how do you check the history of Ebay sales for an item to see the prices an item sells for. - RWE


Use advance search.
There is check box for completed listings and sold listings. 









Sold listings is where you find historical selling prices.
Completed listings are useful to see prices that did not sell.

Cheers!


----------



## HokieKen

What the Captain said as far as ebay prices.

As far as a "friend" price, I'd say $50-100 dpending on type and condition.


----------



## ac0rn

If he is a close friend, just lend him the set, and help him use it.


----------



## drsurfrat

^ yes. Or just give it to him. An investment in friends is much better than one for money.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> ^ yes. Or just give it to him. An investment in friends is much better than one for money.
> 
> - drsurfrat


Shhhh!!!! I collect $50 a month from Kenny so I tell people I'm his friend. Don't ruin it Mike.


----------



## RWE

Well I take a nap and wake up to find that I am supposed to give my 45 away. I think I have over a $100 or $150 in it. Two 45's were bought without irons or just a few, then I bought a more or less full set of irons, then another 45 with a full set of irons.

I was just trying to see what range they sell for and I would offer it to him on the low end. I worked pretty hard over several years to get them and the last one kind of fell into my lap. (Kind of an interesting story on that. I used to pump gas at a Gulf Filling Station in South Georgia, high school years, weekends. Driving through the little town, I started looking around for the old station. Could not spot it. Then I realized it had been "modified" and changed into an Antique Mall. There was a major addition to the area behind where the car lifts were located. So I go in, get sentimental about the old place and walk around. Came out with 3 planes and a finger jointed old box with a 45 and irons. I figure it was some sort of cosmic event.)

I am guessing a range from $100 to $250 or so for a 45 with most of the "standard" irons.

I sharpen saws, chisels and tomorrow an adze for my friend, so I don't mind charging a bit of cash for a somewhat hard to come by tool (at least a rare commodity around where I live).

Thanks Captain for the good info about searching price history.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, the range I stated was "do a favor" range, not "what it's worth" range. If you have more than that invested, certainly there's no reason to take a loss on it.

If you can squeeze an extra $50 out of the guy, Dave will be your friend for a month too!


----------



## drsurfrat

"Show me the money!" I've followed 45s the last few months. SOLD prices on fleecebay: 
whole plane no blades (6) $42-65
w/ some or all blades (5) $50-165
complete plane, all parts, some w box (9) $185-375


----------



## RWE

Thanks drsurfrat. I have been thinking $150-$175 range and your numbers validate that.

I just did an inventory. I have more irons than I thought, but not as many as a lot of you folks. Probably two and two thirds of the sets that include the beaders, straight irons and one tongue iron. Of the irons sets, I have one good box, one box with no top, and one canvas wrap.

I have three or so sash (I think that is what you would call them) irons, window making irons. Also a couple of miscellaneous tongue irons.

However, I only have one set of short rods for all three planes.

I will make him a deal and divide up the irons so we both get a complete basic set.

*Anybody have a spare set of short rods, PM me. * I think you could bisect a single long rod and get enough length left to work as a short rod.


----------



## bandit571

Or, just buy a steel rod the correct diameter..and cut what you need….


----------



## RWE

> Or, just buy a steel rod the correct diameter..and cut what you need….
> 
> - bandit571


Can you find that at a big box store or do you have to go to a specialist store? I guess I can Google it and figure it out.


----------



## bandit571

Near as I can find out…the rods are a "fat" 3/8" diameter…Maybe try McMaster-Carr? a 24" long drill rod, should make almost 2 sets of short rods…

The only fly in the ointment…is when you need the rods that are threaded….and those run about $30 a pair, on FeeBay….


----------



## HokieKen

I'll mic my rods tomorrow for you RWE but I'm fairly sure you can just buy some 3/8 rod. If it's something different, I can turn some 7/16 down for you.


----------



## bandit571

0.382"


----------



## Lazyman

Interesting. The rods on my Craftsman/Sargent 45 are .372" while the Record 405 are .380". The Stanley 46 are .382".


----------



## donwilwol

A tad smaller works, a tad bigger doesn't ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

The rods on my 45 and 46 both measure .384". I also have a set of rods for my 45 that measure .390 that I bought aftermarket.

The .390" rods fit in all the holes but, when you get everything on them at once, they bind up terribly. They are unusable as-is so I'm going to turn a few thousandths off them one of these days.

The .384" rods fit well and everything slides easily but there is enough slop that I've gotten in the habit of checking parallelism of the skate and fence with a caliper to be sure I didn't get them cockeyed.

Letter "W" drill rod is .386" diameter and I bet that's just about perfect. I would buy a length of that (McMaster Carr has it and I'm sure you can find it on Ebay) and cut it to length. If it happens to be a little snug, you could chuck it up in your lathe and sand a thou or two off with some fine abrasive.


----------



## RWE

Well the deed is done. I sold the 45 for $150.00 which is on the low end for a complete set (minus the short rods).

We had a good few hours in the shop showing my friend how to sharpen a saw. I gave him a very nice Atkins 5 ppi rip saw since I knew that I would not have occasion to use it much and I have equivalents if I need one that coarse. It will be useful in his timber framing endeavors.

I did a swap for a 8 ppi Disston D8 rip to him in exchange for an early Disston #7 with the lambs tongue handle that was 8 ppi crosscut. I explained that the saw Gods would be angry with him if he made the crosscut collectible early lambs tongue saw into a rip and the handle was too fragile to be of use in timber framing work. My friend is originally from New Hampshire and he picked up the #7 when there a month or so back for $5.00. The Saw Gods are pleased and I have another lambs tongue handle to go with the only other one I own, a Richardson.

I want to express a big thank you to all the folks that passed on info about the value of 45 and how to get metal to make short rods. This site has some great folks plugged in and I appreciate the feedback.


----------



## drsurfrat

wow


----------



## RWE

Hokie:

I ordered a 3 foot run of the W sized drill rod from McMaster Carr. I have two 45's now, but one set of short rods, so I will make another set for my use and one for my friend. I have never mounted metal in my wood lathe, but I can figure a way to chuck it if it comes in and is a little proud of what it needs to be.

I will report in when it gets here and I test the fit.

Thanks for the tip.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't think you'll need to tweek that rod but if so, you could even do it in a drill chuck. Based on the measurements I took though, I think it should be about perfect. Of course over the 80 years or however long those planes were produced, I imagine there was some variation in the bore sizes.


----------



## HokieKen

I bought a beading stop a while back and just went to put it on the other day. It won't clear the side of the sliding skate. Am I missing something or does this beading stop just not fit my plane? Maybe the stop is from a 55 and isn't the same as the 45?


----------



## Ocelot




----------



## Lazyman

As shown by Ocelot, I think it is only used when cutting a bead on the edge with a tongue or rabbet and sort of acts like a fence (though I have never actually tried it).

Hard to tell from your pictures, does the gauge have a "rabbet" on the side next to the skate and will the skate slide down into that rabbet?


----------



## Lazyman

Here is a picture of my 405 with the the gauge mounted










EDIT: note that I did not bother to put a beading cutter into the plane.


----------



## Ocelot

I see what you mean, Kenny. Yours won't slide up next to the skate.

It seems like from my memory it was a snug fit. I'll have to look at mine.

By the way, I just ordered yesterday a Cam rest to more-or-less complete my one and only 45. I don't have the officiial screwdriver, but other than that, it's complete.

-Paul


----------



## HokieKen

Ahhh. Okay that makes sense. Mine does have a rabbet and sits right according to what y'all show. So I guess it's right, just not what I wanted. I bought it so I could hold an even depth across grooves that are a little farther from the edge. I can easily modify it to be what I need though ;-)


----------



## Lazyman

You might want to flatten the bottom too if you go that route and you want to have the entire foot resting on the surface. I don't think that mine is flat.

EDIT: Which makes me wonder if there is another configuration or use for that thing?


----------



## HokieKen

Mine appears to be machined on about half the bottom where the rabbet is. I'll check to verify though now that you mention it. These beading stops don't appear to be in any kind of short supply at all so I think I'm gonna go ahead and carve it up to suit my purposes 

Paul, I have the cam rest for mine and it does work well to add stability. I feel like the modified beading stop will be better though since it will also aid in keeping a constant depth as well as preventing me from tilting the plane sideways.

In truth, I think practice would cure what ails me. But I simply don't have call to use this plane often enough to develop the necessary muscle memory. I sure do enjoy using it when I have a need though


----------



## RWE

Kenny. Check the tread type for the cam stop if you get a minute. I have a cam stop but no winged bolt for it. I don't know if it is one of those exotic thread counts or not. Whenever you get time. Just curious.


----------



## HokieKen

There were two different types RWE:


















Mine is the type in the first picture so it didn't use a thumbscrew. I'll definitely check the thread size for you later but I don't know if the threads were the same size in both types or not.

I'm sure someone (Mos?) has both styles and can see if the threads were the same.

Have you tried the thumb screws from your fence to see if they fit? I would imagine they're probably the same size but don't know for sure.

I'll measure my threads tonight if I don't forget…


----------



## RWE

Mine is the second one. Missing the thumbscrew. I will go out later and see if any of the other thumbscrews work, but (memory is bad) I think I checked that when I was looking over the 45's this last weekend.


----------



## HokieKen

It may indeed be a larger thread since it has to squeeze it together. I do know that a lot of people have issues with that casting cracking from over-tightening so be wary when you do get a screw.


----------



## theoldfart

Mine broke with minimal pressure. The design seems to be deficient over time from metal fatigue.


----------



## Ocelot

Kenny,

Aren't they plated? Hate to machine off the plating.


----------



## HokieKen

Mine has nickel plating but a lot of it's gone anyway. And it's getting wire wheeled regardless of whether or not I machine it so it will match the rest of my 45


----------



## Mosquito

I can check when I get some shop time, I do have both. But yes, they do crack often


----------



## RWE

Ok. I found the answer during lunch break. The screw that locks in the adjustable fence on some 45's works.

As best I can tell it is 24 threads per inch, 3/16 outside diameter, 11/64 inside diameter. Now I just have to find one.



















Anyone have such an animal floating around that they want to part with, knurled or thumbscrew style.


----------



## HokieKen

That's a 10-24 thread. Should be readily available. I don't think I have any but I'll look tonight.


----------



## theoldfart

RWE, I may have a screw from my broken one, let me check and get back to you.


----------



## bandit571

Next Payday, I need to order new spurs for the Stanley 45 I have set up as a dado plane…just the spurs, bolts not needed…









Used the Stanley 71-1/2 to clean things up…


----------



## theoldfart

RWE, if this will work it's yours. PM your address. We're out of town for a few days so I'll send it when we get home. Doing some smoke free R&R on the left coast with some quality time at Lagunitas brewery.


----------



## Lazyman

" quality time at Lagunitas brewery."

Now THAT has a nice ring to it.


----------



## HokieKen

Yes it does Nathan. I have a cam rest but I'll take a growler of Maximus Kev ;-)


----------



## RWE

> RWE, I may have a screw from my broken one, let me check and get back to you.
> 
> - theoldfart


If you find it, PM me and I will send my address and your cost and shipping on PayPal. Many thanks.

Should have read the whole thread, I sent the PM, thanks.


----------



## RWE

We have a local brewery call "Good People". I favor their IPA, but when I can get it (comes and goes because it may be too strong for most folks taste) Good People Coffee Oatmeal Stout. It will put hair on your chest.

Every time I drink it, I hear Tom Waits singing "guess i'll have another stout".


----------



## HokieKen

You can have the stouts. Too dark for me. Hoppy makes me happy


----------



## RWE

I suspect there are a lot of folks that think that way Hokie. That seems to be the reason it is produced sporadically. I am thinking of going to the brewery marching with a sign, chanting Dark Stout for the Good People.


----------



## bandit571

Toby Keith's "I love this Bar.." playing in the background….I'll stick with my Stouts…..Guinness will do nicely..

Went shopping for Spurs for that Type 4 Stanley #45…..struck out. IF I sharpen the 2 I have on it right now, they will be too short to reach the wood's surface….would rather NOT just sharpen one of the other lobes….

2 "new" ones, so they match each other….don't need the bolts…

Checked over on FeeBay…NADA….


----------



## theoldfart

Stouts aged in bourbon barrels work well for me. A little dark chocolate on the side can't hurt either!


----------



## Mosquito

> would rather NOT just sharpen one of the other lobes….
> 
> - bandit571


Why not? If you won't be able to use them otherwise, I'd do it


----------



## Lazyman

Are the Spurs different on different 45 types?


----------



## bandit571

Have 4 more dados to do….will get out the Dremel and see about cutting a new edge….

Seems they almost all used that 3 lobe design….My Type 4 has the same as my Type 20…YMMV


----------



## theoldfart

RWE, you quoted Tom Waits. You've just attained enlightened status as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## RWE

"Closing Time" is one of the great albums of all time. Ole Tom Cat.

I might have been a borderline hippy back in the day. Saw many of the greats in their prime. Hendrix twice, the Band three times, Linda Rhonstadt (sp), Joni Mitchell. Many others. Bob Dylan 4 times, the Stones twice, all back in the 70's. Always liked the singer/songwriter types. Tom wrote some good songs.

One of the most interesting concerts was kind of like the movie by Tom Hanks "That thing you do". It was the Big Ape Calvacade of Stars. Each act would take the stage for two or three numbers, same backing band, then the head liners would set up and do a bit longer set. Lou Christie, Fontella Bass (Rescue Me), very young B J Thomas, 
The Toys (Lover's concerto "How gentle is the rain, that falls softly on meadow", old Girl group hit) many others then the main acts, Dave Clark 5 and The Young Rascals. Rascals were one of my favorites.

WAPE (AM Radio) in Jacksonville Florida put on this type of concert for several years. I think it was 1968 that I saw that show. That might have been the last year they did that type of show. I consider myself lucky to have seen one of those.

Maybe there is a connection here. 45 planes and 45 records from back in the day???


----------



## Mosquito

> Seems they almost all used that 3 lobe design….My Type 4 has the same as my Type 20…YMMV
> 
> - bandit571


Yup, Type 1 started out with the 3-lobe design as well


----------



## HokieKen

Curious why you would:



> ....would rather NOT just sharpen one of the other lobes….
> 
> - bandit571


?

Just wondering if I missed something. All 3 lobes on mine are sharpened.


----------



## bandit571

Pictures?









This one still cuts, barely…at least it still sticks up just enough…the fence side one?









Is almost flush with the edge of the skate…and has a flat edge, to boot…not a mark being made…

I also cleaned out a jack plane this morning…sharpened the iron, and mated the cap iron a bit better…









Then right back to work….jointing a few edges…

Will work on the spurs later today…and see what I can do…


----------



## bandit571

Does seem to work a bit better..









Even on flat work….

The Type 20 has an issue with spurs..Main stock hole for the spurs bolt is too wallered out to hold a spur…moving stock spur has been moved to the type 4….and leave the Type 20 to do grooves and such










Even when the wood has.."issues" 









Plows right on through….

We'll see how the day goes along….need a bigger fan in the shop…









This isn't getting it…..


----------



## RWE

> Hokie:
> 
> I ordered a 3 foot run of the W sized drill rod from McMaster Carr. I have two 45 s now, but one set of short rods, so I will make another set for my use and one for my friend. I have never mounted metal in my wood lathe, but I can figure a way to chuck it if it comes in and is a little proud of what it needs to be.
> 
> I will report in when it gets here and I test the fit.
> 
> Thanks for the tip.
> 
> - RWE


Got the rod in:

Line Product
1 8890K251 Tight-Tolerance *W1* Tool Steel Rod, Easy-to-Machine, 0.386" Diameter, 3 Feet Long

and it works perfectly.

Will cut out two sets of short rods. Anyone needing rods for the 45, this probably beats trying to get them on Ebay.

Thanks Kenny for the tip. total cost with shipping was $19.25, the bar was just $10.25.


----------



## HokieKen

Great! I may just go that route myself rather than turning down my short rods. My long rods have a little more slop than I'd like. I think I'll order some of that drill rod and put the rods I have now back for spares.


----------



## bandit571

Ok, update on the spurs…one was usable as is….small file to freshen the edge a bit…Looked in the Type 20's case…I had a couple spares…sharpened the non-sharpened lobe up..installed into the plane….makes enough of a score mark to be of use…

Figure if nothing else, I can use the spurs to mark the walls of a dado,,,take the part over to the Stanley #358, and saw to the depth needed…then let the Type 4 have at it…then use the Stanley #71-1/2 to level the floor…and clean things up..

Drawer #4 now has it's 2 dados milled…had to stop for a while…Dungeon Creek was on the rise…gulley-washer had come through..even knocked the power out for a minute,or two….just enough to louse somethings up…


----------



## Lazyman

> Toby Keith s "I love this Bar.." playing in the background….I ll stick with my Stouts…..Guinness will do nicely..
> 
> Went shopping for Spurs for that Type 4 Stanley #45…..struck out. IF I sharpen the 2 I have on it right now, they will be too short to reach the wood s surface….would rather NOT just sharpen one of the other lobes….
> 
> 2 "new" ones, so they match each other….don t need the bolts…
> 
> Checked over on FeeBay…NADA….
> 
> - bandit571


Don't know anything about this seller but there are some spurs for $15, including shipping. Might be cheaper per unit if you buy more than 1.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Found a 405 with cutters. Looks like everything is there. Haven't tried them yet but I think the cutters will work on a 45 too.


----------



## Mosquito

Oooh very nice all around! Yes, the 405 irons will work in a #45. I've still not yet grabbed a 405 myself, despite having a nearly complete set of hollow and round bases from Record


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, I have a 405 and a 45..The cutters from the 405 work on my 45 just fine. As Mos said, the H&R's are interchangeable too.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks for the responses guys. I'm glad the cutters will work on the 45s. The only set of cutters I had up until this set was Craftsman and I had to cut notches to get them to work on the 45s. Good steel though.

I would guess this 405 is a late production. Late '70s or early '80s but it seems nice enough made. Looks to me like it could be cadmium plated but it looks to be all in good condition.

Didn't have time last night to spread it all out for a picture but maybe I will do that sometime soon.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here are some pictures of the pieces of the 405 plane spread out:




























There are a couple spurs in the little envelope and three small screws. Not sure yet what the screws are for. have not looked at the book yet so I don't know what the little paper shaft alignment template is about if it even belongs in the box. Might be a motor shaft coupling alignment template.


----------



## theoldfart

Have not seen the shaft alignment template before. Screws are probably for the spurs.
I think I have a similar model though your box is a bit different. I don't have the thick side piece.
I do have two extra H&R sets if your interested!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Ooooh…buying more stuff for this old plane is just what it would take to get me tossed out. I better be good so, thanks but no thanks tof on the H&Rs.


----------



## Mosquito

Pssh, if you think the quest for #45 hollow and round bases is a journey, you should get a Fales plane lol

Sharpened up the 1-1/4 hollow iron for the set I'm planning to sell soon, and took it for a spin



















As an aside, why do I always clean up the ones I plan to sell before my own?


----------



## KentInOttawa

> As an aside, why do I always clean up the ones I plan to sell before my own?
> 
> - Mosquito


Practice?


----------



## Mosquito

I like that line of thinking lol Too bad it often doesn't get as far as cleaning up my own lol


----------



## rad457

Funny how that works, spent the time to clean up and sharpen the blades Kenny made for my #46 but haven't given them a test run yet


----------



## Mosquito

I went through and cleaned up and sharpened all 7 of my hollow irons, and 2 of 6 rounds tonight. I think 4 hollow bases are cleaned up, and 1 or 2 round bases… Slow progress is better than no progress.

Also, removing the rods makes it a quite pleasant form compared to the #45 bases. Although the single piece is nice, the depth adjuster is what is nicer lol


----------



## donwilwol

That's pretty cool Most!!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That is a nice tool. Looks good, and it works! Congrats, Mos.


----------



## HokieKen

That thing does have a little sexy on it Mos!


----------



## theoldfart

I may have to rethink the H&R's. The center beads and side beads are fun to use.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks guys, it is nice to use. Oddly comfortable for such a simple broomstick tote.

Kenny, I can put a starter kit together for you, I've got 3 planes now, and a handful of duplicate bases lol. You probably need a Philip's patent to go with it too ;-)

If you change your mind Kev, I've got 1-1/4" H&R sets extra. I won't tell Kenny I have them, so he won't think they're included with his kit


----------



## HokieKen

There's a lot you can tempt me with Mos but that ain't one of em. Try a little Langdon Miter Box if you need to free up some shop space ;-)


----------



## drsurfrat

Do you want this one? 74C. It's not little.



















I will post detail pics on the miter box thread….


----------



## HokieKen

Nah, I got one of those Mike. Mos' knows what I want.


----------



## Mosquito

You wouldn't want mine Kenny, it doesn't have depth stops


----------



## HokieKen

I'll take it anyway Mos. I'm generous like that.


----------



## Mosquito

lol I'm sure you would… I'm gonna need it for cutting molding profiles to install…


----------



## Mosquito

New video up actually using a couple of the bases I just cleaned up and sharpened 
(wish I could just embed the video…)


----------



## Mosquito

More Fales Patent Plane fun


----------



## bandit571

Not sure what model number Sears/Craftsman sold these 2 planes as..









But they look like Sargent No. 79s….right down to the "79" cast on that fence/guide….









One is missing the depth stop and guide fence, the other has the wrong bolts….









One does have "Made in USA" cast in front of the handle….









Might be a pair of "tweeners"? They have the front handle ( intact!) but still have the arched back/top, and the spiral thingys instead of the stipled pattern of the post 1948 T-2s?

Both still have the 3 lobe spurs….and not the round disc spur…

Whether to keep the one for spare parts, or, try to find the missing parts….and….do I NEED 2 of these? AND the Wards#78? Hmmmm…


----------



## sansoo22

I wanted to give face beading a try with the #45. I grabbed a piece of walnut from the "twisted or cupped" pile and gave it a go. This is my second attempt as the first time some dummy forgot to set the depth adjuster and then yelled at the tool for being stupid and making the bead way too deep. Anyway…turns out that piece of walnut was in the wrong pile cuz it was actually super flat with nice grain so I made it into a coat rack.

All in all not bad for watching no videos and reading nothing about what I was doing before I started.

Side note: Does anyone else feel like a #45 is like planing with an Edlebrock carburator? A lot of moving parts for something that performs a fairly simple task.


----------



## HokieKen

Very nice work Sansoo! The 45 is fun to piddle with. I have a very similar rack on my to-do list to hold my riding jackets and helmets. I like those hooks a lot. Where did you get them?

Actually, I found the 45 setup to be much simpler than I expected when I first got mine. Maybe my expectations were just lower than yours. For me, the hardest part is getting the depth of cut set. But having the depth adjuster is a HUGE help with that. Try setting up a #46 with no depth adjuster and no micro-adjust on the fence and see if the 45 seems a little more user friendly after that ;-p


----------



## sansoo22

I think those hooks are from Target. I found them in a bucket in my shop but they are Threshold brand which i think is a Target store brand. I believe I originally bought them to try and hang some of my Stetsons on but the tops weren't quite wide enough to not deform a hat.

And you're right the #45 is pretty intuitive once its disassembled to see how all the pieces work. I'm not skilled enough to work without a depth stop yet. The far end of the bead gets planed to proper depth well before the start of it. Then again my current bench is about 4" too low for someone 6'1" so I do tend to exert more downward force with planes than needed by shear happenstance.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I use both depth stops and still usually end up with a slightly skewed bottom in my grooves. Practice, practice, practice I guess. And bench height can have a huge effect. Fortunately I discovered hand planes before I built my current bench


----------



## Mosquito

> Side note: Does anyone else feel like a #45 is like planing with an Edlebrock carburator? A lot of moving parts for something that performs a fairly simple task.
> 
> - sansoo22


You should try out a #55 lol

That is a great looking bead. Maybe I should start doing my videos with walnut instead of pine or poplar!

I've never dug in to the "why", but it's quite common for plow planes to end up done at the far end before the front end. I know one technique is to start by nibbling in from the far end and working your way back, so there's nothing "wrong" with it, but it is sometimes odd.

I think I'm going to be beading with my Fales plane, no depth stops required :^)


----------



## Ocelot

I've got to sharpen my beading irons now. I basicly have assumed I"m only going to groove and have left them alone.


----------



## sansoo22

I don't know if this is common but I did notice the foot on the depth stop was leaving a shiny trail on the face of the walnut after the bead was complete. So to correct that I folded a sheet of notebook paper in half and put it under the depth stop and reset it. Took a few more passes on the bead to set it just below the surface of the rest of the stock. Then came back with my #604 setup for a final smoothing pass. Seems to have done the trick as the surface is glassy smooth with even sheen throughout.


----------



## Mosquito

Very common. You're basically burnishing it with the depth stop. I get it all the time, unless you can have a really really light touch


----------



## sansoo22

> I ve got to sharpen my beading irons now. I basicly have assumed I"m only going to groove and have left them alone.
> 
> - Ocelot


I sharpen mine as I need them. Since I bought a later model new old stock #45 none of my cutters have ever been used. Takes a bit of time to get a flat mirror on the back 1/2" or so.


----------



## Lazyman

I need to cut a stopped groove parallel to an edge. I was thinking that I would try drilling holes at both ends of the groove and then use my 45 to cut the groove between the holes. Will this work?


----------



## DavePolaschek

You'll need to fiddle with things some, and increase the depth of the cut as you go, since only one skate will be able to ride in the groove you've cut. I've done that with a 45, but it's fiddly enough that I generally either do the bulk of the work at the ends with a chisel, or just blast out the ends with the 45 and then glue in a patch afterwards.


----------



## drsurfrat

Nathan, I do what Dave does (chisel or blow-thru), and I don't do it well.
I also made this to try, but it is pretty finicky, and only one width.
I suppose you could just run the No 45 blade out past the skate, then it would act like a chisel, but with a fence and handles.


----------



## Johnny7

> Side note: Does anyone else feel like a #45 is like planing with an Edlebrock carburator? A lot of moving parts for something that performs a fairly simple task.
> 
> - sansoo22


Add me to the list of those who find that beadwork to be pristine.

Personally, I would suggest that a Quadrajet is a better analogy.


----------



## Lazyman

Ahh, the skate needs to be able to slide out the end. I forgot about that. You can tell I haven't used my 45 much yet. Perhaps I'll have to try using a router plane. After starting with a marking gauge and chisel. It will be pretty ugly if I try to do it by all with a chisel. I don't really want to use a tailed router but that's probably the easiest thing to do.


----------



## theoldfart

It does excel at beadwork.


----------



## Johnny7

> It does excel at beadwork.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


Good Stuff, Kevin!

(but some of us are waiting to see photos of the work you were doing on that train car)


----------



## theoldfart

7, that is train car work!


----------



## BlasterStumps

very nice work tof. Especially since that appears to be red oak.


----------



## Mosquito

> I need to cut a stopped groove parallel to an edge. I was thinking that I would try drilling holes at both ends of the groove and then use my 45 to cut the groove between the holes. Will this work?
> 
> - Lazyman


I've chopped a mortise the size is the front part of the skate before, and done it that way, which sounds about the same


----------



## bandit571

Box for a #79 about done..









Waiting on the 2nd box to get done, before I add a finish to both….second one with have a way to stash the fence parts and the depth stop part….rather than just rattle around inside…









Both #79s have helped build these two cases, along with the Stanley 45..









Getting "Groooovy"


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm, logo time.
.









Craftsman No. 3720…logo for the irons…









A better photo of the new & improved (vs cardboard?) case…









Will be working on case No. 2 later…


----------



## RWE

Posted this on the Handplanes forum, figured it may fit better over here.

Anyone have a #50 Stanley that includes a depth stop? I just picked up a Craftsman 45 yesterday for parts. It cost me $12 and I got it for the short bars for one of my 45 planes.

The Craftsman had no irons, but had the main body parts, long and short rods and three depth stops. So I am going to try to sand/file down the post on one of the depth stops to fit the smaller hole in the #50.

*I was trying to figure out what the "standard" size was for a #50 depth stop*. I just perused Blood and Gore and it was stated that the early ones shipped without a depth stop, No mention of what the depth stop dimensions would be.

The 45 depth stop post is 1/4 inch. The #50 is 7/32.

I guess I should have posted to the 45 forum, but here it is anyway.

I am going to keep some thumb screws, but have no need for the main parts if anyone can use them. Note the weird circular spurs?? Was that a Craftsman thing or did later 45's adopt that style of spur.









Depth stops (black) and the shiny one is from Record 043 (it fits). Just want one to fit the Stanley 50 as well.










Weird spurs.

PM me if anyone could use the body sections or weird spurs (free, just shipping). I am keeping the rods and some thumb screws, depth stops.


----------



## Lazyman

That Craftsman looks like it is a Sargent made one. The Sargent model number is 1080 and the cutters are slightly different and are harder to find. They have 2 notches. Instead of just the one on the side, it also has one on the end that helps keep the blade straight. I much prefer the round nicker on the Sargent design to the 3 prong one.


----------



## donwilwol

> That Craftsman looks like it is a Sargent made one. The Sargent model number is 1080 and the cutters are slightly different and are harder to find. They have 2 notches. Instead of just the one on the side, it also has one on the end that helps keep the blade straight. I much prefer the round nicker on the Sargent design to the 3 prong one.
> 
> - Lazyman


this^^


----------



## RWE

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.

or Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to post on Lumberjocks and to remove all doubt.

I posted about a rare early Stanley #6 that I found, never noticing the lateral adjust lever was a Union style lever. Now I post about a parts Stanley 45 that is indeed a Sargent 1080. Batting a 1000

In my defense, all I noticed was the set of short rods. Never looked at the body. The iron locking mechanism is very different as are the nickers. The rods are set further apart.

When I was cleaning the rods (chief reason for getting the parts 1080) I thought they were a little loose in the 45. Just measured them. Sargent is 3/8, Stanley is 25/64, so 1/64 difference. I think they will still work, will test them out later.

Just looked at Ebay, the parts may be worth some money if I can get MJD prices.

So unless someone wants the body parts to the 1080, I am going to list them on the Bay. I will modify the depth stop to work on the Stanley 50, probably just the smaller depth stop.


----------



## Lazyman

The only reason I knew that is because I made the same rookie mistake when I bought one. If you have the irons for it, it would be a solid user.


----------



## RWE

It did not have any irons. I may look at it again and consider making it a stand-alone dedicated plough/plow plane. I have a little 043 Record (love the little fellow, very good for that work) for small boxes, the 50 was to be used for drawer bottom grooves and larger boxes.

But I am an addict. So I may try to bring that 1080 to life and get some irons for it. I browsed Ebay a bit.

I have two 45's, one with an adjustable fence, one without, so I don't need another full tilt combo plane.

I was able to take the longer depth stop and modify it to work on the Stanley 50, so that is gone, but the other parts are all there, just need some irons.

The biggest problem is that I am not woke. I like Sargent, but am prejudiced against Craftsman. So I don't know if I can deal with that. I have a Craftsman Jack that is a Sargent made plane and I love and respect it, so there is hope. LOL


----------



## Lazyman

Mine is also a Craftsman branded one and seems to be every bit as usable as my Record 405 and should be similar to the Stanley as well. I really like the round knicker. So much easier to use than the little nub that all of the others have. I have been thinking about cutting the 2nd notch into a few extra 45 irons I have so mine is usable beyond 1/2 (or was it 3/8"?) that came with it. Mine came with one iron so I at least have one to use as a template, though it would be easy enough to make even without a template.


----------



## RWE

I have a pretty good selection of 45 irons, so I may try that. I will take stock of it the next time I get some shop time. I may have to spring for one iron so that I can have a template.

My problem is that I am not rational. Having a plane that works well is not the goal. The irrational goal I have is to have an old "historical" plane that works well. Guess I will have to figure out how old the Craftsman is so i can get my mind right about it.

I was in a Flea mall and it was about to close, so I saw the "45" for $12 bucks and grabbed it for parts. Now it threatens to demand more parts and more time, but what is an addict to do.


----------



## Lazyman

I just went out and looked. Apparently, mine is a 7/8" blade. Here are a couple of pictures that might help. Notice the shape of the notches too. They are shaped so that the edges of the adjusting nut fit the notches. If you sneak up on it, you can probably make it work without buying one for a template.


----------



## RWE

In the middle of fitful sleep, I had a dream, a vision. The Plane Gods appeared to me. They descended from Mount Forge. Strange winged creatures with flowing robes and soot on their faces. Most wore robes with Stanley logos. One impish little fellow had Miller's Falls logos on his robe. Each had a blacksmith hammer in his hand. The biggest one, with Sargent logos on his robe, spoke and all the others paid strict attention to his words:

"There are no parts planes" he said. "Every plane is to be preserved." "Go and heed my words, you know better."

I bowed down and beseeched his forgiveness. This morning I went out to the shop and used a wire brush to clean off the Craftsman 1080. Long live all planes I cried out.

Thanks for the images of the Sargent irons Johnny7. You helped remind me of the folly of "parts plane" sin.

Now I have to create some irons or buy some.


----------



## HokieKen

LOL! The Millers Falls Imp has a few "parts planes" of his own ;-)


----------



## RWE

Nathan or Kenny: What is the best way to cut a new notch in the iron.

I have a 5/16th 45 iron that is a spare. Is there a Dremel type cutter that will work for this purpose. Or hacksaw and file? What is the best technique. Link a disk or rotary head or whatever would work to do the cutting.

I have a Dremel and an edge grinder, but I figure the edge grinder would not have disks fine enough for something like this. Maybe they do.


----------



## bandit571

Looks like a Dremel with a cut-off wheel could work,,,maybe

Used a #11 cutter in the 45 the other day….needed 3/16" wide grooves ploughed…..Unable to use both skates, had to settle for just the Main Skate..









Was still making noodles..


----------



## HokieKen

It depends on whether it's hardened or not RWE. If not, I'd probably just use a small jewelers file. If it is, I'd use a cutoff wheel in a dremel.


----------



## RWE

I will give the Dremel wheel a try. I have some of those on hand. They always seem to wear away so rapidly that they are not much use. I just remembered a set of diamond files, different shapes, that I have, I think they are Harbor Freight, but they might work in conjunction with the Dremel disks.

There is a 1/8 inch milling bit (carbide) on Amazon for the Dremel. I have a broken iron to practice on till I get my chops down.


----------



## donwilwol

> In the middle of fitful sleep, I had a dream, a vision. The Plane Gods appeared to me. They descended from Mount Forge. Strange winged creatures with flowing robes and soot on their faces. Most wore robes with Stanley logos. One impish little fellow had Miller s Falls logos on his robe. Each had a blacksmith hammer in his hand. The biggest one, with Sargent logos on his robe, spoke and all the others paid strict attention to his words:
> 
> "There are no parts planes" he said. "Every plane is to be preserved." "Go and heed my words, you know better."
> 
> I bowed down and beseeched his forgiveness. This morning I went out to the shop and used a wire brush to clean off the Craftsman 1080. Long live all planes I cried out.
> 
> Thanks for the images of the Sargent irons Johnny7. You helped remind me of the folly of "parts plane" sin.
> 
> Now I have to create some irons or buy some.
> 
> - RWE


I have asked him to stop borrowing my robe!!


----------



## RWE

Now that you mention it, he kind of looked like you, the Sargent god that is, and the impish Millers Falls god had a green cape that I remember seeing somewhere.


----------



## RWE

All's well that ends well and the plane Gods are happy. I got a depth stop on my Stanley 50 that I pirated from the Sargent/Craftsman 1080. I put the 1080 together with the short bars. After I did an inventory, I had enough Stanley style short bars for my 2 45's, so I did not need the ones from the 1080.

What was curious is that I took a conventional Stanley 45 iron and used a cheapo Harbor Freight diamond needle file to enlarge the cutout for the depth adjustment connection. When you lock the iron down, the 1080 mechanism presses in two directions to lock the iron. I am thinking that for at least the narrower iron widths, that the top notch (locks and rides inside the depth adjuster screw cap bottom edge) found on the Sargent irons might not be necessary.










I plowed a groove in a cherry board, no problem with the iron moving.










No doubt the double notches would be better, but this seems serviceable. When you have a wider iron, I expect the forces on the iron might make the second notch mandatory.

Anybody dabble with this issue that has any insight??

Stanley 50 is now commissioned and ready for use, depth stop and all.










And you folks, Nathan et al were right, the 1080 feels like a good worker.


----------



## Lazyman

Dremel cutoff wheels is what I would use. Getting the profile of the notches might be easier with that than a file. The little cheap wheels do wear out pretty quickly but they are cheap so not a big deal-especially since a bought a tackle box full them at a garage sale a couple of years ago. I have found some larger, thicker ones that seem to last longer. They also sell a diamond wheel but have never tried one. They might be intended for stone so I don't know how they would hold up to hardened steel.


----------



## bandit571

That LONG depth stop was a Beading stop…it rode along a tongue while you ploughed a bead beside the tongue…it was also notched to let the cutter get past, while still supporting the plane….that is why it is longer than most depth stops.


----------



## Ocelot

I came late to the party RWE. I have a complete English Stanley 50 with all parts if you still need any measurements.

You have my number probably. Could just text.


----------



## RWE

> I came late to the party RWE. I have a complete English Stanley 50 with all parts if you still need any measurements.
> 
> You have my number probably. Could just text.
> 
> - Ocelot


I was mainly interested in the depth stops, width, length, post height. I took the long depth stop from the 1080 and sanded the post down to get it to fit. I don't do beads and don't have any beading irons for the 1080 so I figured it was more expendable of the two.

The beading depth stop for the 1080 has an adjustable second layer. That second layer makes it hard for me to get as deep as I think I may wish to for drawer grooves. So I am inclined to remove the second layer and cut the remaining long stop to fit more closely to an original size that hopefully you have with your English 50.

So post size and pictures. May be useful to another fellow later. Thanks,


----------



## Ocelot

I'll try to remember to photograph and measure it when I next get to the shop.


----------



## BlasterStumps

RWE, I modified a set of Craftsman cutters to work in the Stanley. I just cut them in with a hacksaw. They work.


----------



## RWE

> I came late to the party RWE. I have a complete English Stanley 50 with all parts if you still need any measurements.
> 
> You have my number probably. Could just text.
> 
> - Ocelot


Also Ocelot, can you put in the length of the irons and their thickness. I have some irons that came with the Record 043, not the best quality, but they are short enough to fit both planes, the 043 and 50. As I understand it, the 50's came in various builds. How bout some pictures of yours and I would be interested it has a blade depth adjuster on your model.

Somewhere in my notes was the name of vendor that had some pricey but good quality irons that would work in the Record and therefore the 50. If anyone has a URL or name for a source for decent irons it would be great. I may just try to find a deal on some 45 irons and cut them off.


----------



## RWE

> RWE, I modified a set of Craftsman cutters to work in the Stanley. I just cut them in with a hacksaw. They work.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


What is your opinion on the necessity of the top notch. Does it just depend on how wide the blade gets like I theorized. The tops of the irons must not be hardened because the little file I used made short work of opening up the slot in the 45 iron I used.

Opps, I read your post backwards. Main point was the hacksaw would work.


----------



## BlasterStumps

here is a picture of one of the modified cutters:


----------



## BlasterStumps

Sorry, I can't answer about the top notch. Just haven't used them enough. As you can see by the fact that this blade has not been sharpened.


----------



## bandit571

It would appear that nhplaneparts has moved things to his own store, instead of dealing through FeeBay…and, yes Eric seems to have Sargent plane parts…I just googled Stanley Plane Parts, and his site came up…with a phone number, even…


----------



## RWE

NHPlaneParts is an interesting resource. Lots of beading irons. I wonder how tempered/hardened the beading irons are. Could you grind one to a straight flat edge and have enough hardness left for the iron to stay sharp.

I am using CBN wheels, so heat would not be an issue, still quench often. I have extra beading irons that I could flatten if they would keep an edge. I may try it and report back. Using those, I could get some to work in the 1080 and some to work in the 50 and 043.


----------



## Ocelot

Rod diameter .219
Rod length from top surface of foot, 1 inch 
Foot thickness .076" 
Foot width .455" 
Foot length 2.5 inch
Rod centered 0.75" from front end.
Forgot to measure radius of ends.


----------



## Ocelot




----------



## RWE

thanks for the specs Ocelot. No shop time for me today, so far. Granddaughter demands my time, but that is okay.

I think I will cut down the 1080 beading depth stop to those dimensions and remove the bottom adjustable layer because it prevents me from getting much depth.

This picture is what I have currently, so it will be a lot shorter.


----------



## Ocelot

Oh, and the irons were 3 inches long and about .110" thick.

They have a series of corrugations on the back to engage with the adjuster. These are about 3/8 in. wide on the irons that are wider than 3/8. They are spaced a bit more than 1/8 from center to center, and are 50 thousandths thick.


----------



## RWE

What do you mean by adjuster?? LOL. I have the model that has no adjuster. Knowing the length is a big help. At least I won't have to figure a way to make those corrugations.

Looks like you have real nice 50, congrats. A friend of mine got the 50 thrown in by mistake on an Ebay purpose, so he asked me if I wanted it. The seller said just to keep it.

As the Plane Gods decreed, " there are no parts planes". So it is finally getting into shape.


----------



## Ocelot

I was wondering about that. I must have a late model English 50.

The adjuster is kinda like the one on a 78, I think. I don't have a 78.


----------



## Bearcontrare

Been away from the thread for a few days, so I'm coming in late to the party for the topic. Maybe this information will be of use/interest to someone here.
My first combination plane, somewhat similar to the Stanley #45, was a "Fulton". Research has shown that early on, Sears, Roebuck & Co bought planes from Sargent to sell through their catalog, and had them marked "Fulton". They used the name Fulton, in the pre-Craftsman tool era, becase the street on which they were based in Chicago was named Fulton. This applied to many different types of hand tools in that era.
As we know, eventually the "Craftsman" line of tools was introduced, being jobbed out to Stanley, Millers Falls and the like. Most Craftsman combination planes are rebranded Stanley products. If anyone has a Craftsman combination plane that is really a Sargent, I hope they will share photos of it.
On a similar, note, my first "45", bought just after the Fulton is marked "Montgomery Ward &Co". Don't know when Ward's picked up the 45. It may have been quite late, as the plane is complete and in very good condition.


----------



## bandit571

Show & Time time, IF nobody minds? ( might be a little big? Details, details)









Stanley 45, T-5?









Fence off to show the left side depth stop..









Difference between depth stop and the beading stop..









Beading stop installed..









No wood on the fence..









Back in the box..note the screwdriver?









Close the lid..as for the Type 20 in the shop..









Kicking back, and resting up….before it gets put into it's own case..

Concludes the Show & Tell…back to regular scheduled programing…


----------



## RWE

> Been away from the thread for a few days, so I m coming in late to the party for the topic. Maybe this information will be of use/interest to someone here.
> My first combination plane, somewhat similar to the Stanley #45, was a "Fulton". Research has shown that early on, Sears, Roebuck & Co bought planes from Sargent to sell through their catalog, and had them marked "Fulton". They used the name Fulton, in the pre-Craftsman tool era, becase the street on which they were based in Chicago was named Fulton. This applied to many different types of hand tools in that era.
> As we know, eventually the "Craftsman" line of tools was introduced, being jobbed out to Stanley, Millers Falls and the like. Most Craftsman combination planes are rebranded Stanley products. If anyone has a Craftsman combination plane that is really a Sargent, I hope they will share photos of it.
> On a similar, note, my first "45", bought just after the Fulton is marked "Montgomery Ward &Co". Don t know when Ward s picked up the 45. It may have been quite late, as the plane is complete and in very good condition.
> 
> - Bearcontrare


I think Nathan (aka Lazyman) has a Sargent/Craftsman 1080 and i posted some pictures of the one I recently acquired shown below, posted a couple of pages above. Long story short, I picked it up thinking it was a 45. The store was about to close and I saw the price for $12 bucks and grabbed it up to use for parts on 45's. Turns out to be a complete Craftsman 1080 so i am going to keep it, just needs some irons.

I have resolved to put it to use and also to utilize the Stanley 45 a bit more. So I am going to go into sharpening mode and get the irons sharp for the 45 and try to fabricate or acquire some irons for the 1080.



> All s well that ends well and the plane Gods are happy. I got a depth stop on my Stanley 50 that I pirated from the Sargent/Craftsman 1080. I put the 1080 together with the short bars. After I did an inventory, I had enough Stanley style short bars for my 2 45 s, so I did not need the ones from the 1080.
> 
> What was curious is that I took a conventional Stanley 45 iron and used a cheapo Harbor Freight diamond needle file to enlarge the cutout for the depth adjustment connection. When you lock the iron down, the 1080 mechanism presses in two directions to lock the iron. I am thinking that for at least the narrower iron widths, that the top notch (locks and rides inside the depth adjuster screw cap bottom edge) found on the Sargent irons might not be necessary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I plowed a groove in a cherry board, no problem with the iron moving.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt the double notches would be better, but this seems serviceable. When you have a wider iron, I expect the forces on the iron might make the second notch mandatory.
> 
> Anybody dabble with this issue that has any insight??
> 
> Stanley 50 is now commissioned and ready for use, depth stop and all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you folks, Nathan et al were right, the 1080 feels like a good worker.
> 
> - RWE


----------



## Bearcontrare

Shoulda checked this out before making my last post. This is the handle of the Ward's #45.
Coulda sworn it said " Montgomery Ward & Co.

I'll go to my Time Out corner for awhile, guys.


----------



## Bearcontrare

Shoulda checked before posting…... 8>(

How long do y'all think that printing on the handle usually lasted? Seems like it woulda rubbed off long ago!


----------



## Bearcontrare

You are right, Sir! The top notch of the 1080 blades ride inside the groove under the depth adjustment nut. 
Even though I have an older 1080, with the reticulated handle on the fence, it is complete with all the parts, so I do enjoy using it.


----------



## HokieKen

I dropped the knicker screw off my 45. Spent the last hour in the shop floor searching and crying to no avail. Anybody got a spare to sell?


----------



## BlasterStumps

I don't Kenny, sorry. Sure do feel for you having to get down on the floor to look for it. Not fun. Hope you can find it. The extra screws in the 405 that I bought here a while back are not the screw for the knicker. Actually don't know what they fit.

I don't know what shoes you wear in the shop but if they have much tread, you might look them over for the screw caught in them.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

You need one of those magnets on the end of a broom stick.


----------



## bandit571

Maybe just the end of the magnetic tip holder in the cordless drill? Tie a string on it, and drag it across the floor…

Magnetic Fishing on a small scale…


----------



## rad457

Think I might have one, can throw it in the mail tomorrow, think I have your address some where.
Do I have to polish it first?
Yup, have one, even a spare knicker


----------



## HokieKen

Awesome Andre! Thanks!!!! I did try magnet fishing for it. Unfortunately I turned some steel parts last night and the floor was littered with magnetic chips roughly the same size as that screw. Ugh.

I'm sure I'll find it as soon as your's shows up Andre ;-). Let me know what I owe ya!


----------



## Bearcontrare

Hey Gang, need to ask for a little help. Just found this Craftsman/Sargent 1080, which came available dirt cheap.
It is missing one of the thumb screws on the inner sliding section. (But has both the depth stops!) If anyone has an extra thumbscrew floating around or knows where I can get one, please contact me [email protected]

Thank you folks. This is one of my favorite threads!


----------



## Bearcontrare

I know, she needs a complete disassembly and damned good cleaning. That will be happening within the next week or so.


----------



## RWE

Barry: I just picked up a 1080, posted a few posts above about it. I decided to keep it and acquire some irons. Look on Ebay. Since you have the one thumbscrew you can check the size and thread count and possibly get a 45 or other thumbscrew threaded to match. If you got it for a real good price, maybe just pay the exorbitant price they will charge on Ebay for a thumbscrew or look for an incomplete and cheap 1080 that has the thumbscrew.

I will gladly accept any and all irons that you don't want. Hopefully you got some with it.


----------



## Ocelot

Barry posted another thread about this too.

Is it this one?

Here s all 1080 parts at nhplaneparts


----------



## BlasterStumps

are the threads okay in that hole? Can barely see them in picture.


----------



## Bearcontrare

Yes! Those are they! Thank you so much for sharing that link!!! I'll get on the stick and order this set.

Yes, the inside threads are fine. I was just in the garage tinkering with the plane. The GOOD news is that the thumb screw from the dado stop is the same size as the others, but (as many people tell me) I'm missing a screw…... LOL…... I'm gonna do what I can to remedy that issue.


----------



## Bearcontrare

BTW, My typing fingers and my "mind" (?) Often work at different speeds….. add being a "senile citizen, as Archie Bunker says, and occasionally posts get a bit off.
Trying to keep the matter straight, it appears that Sears sold the Sargent 1080 under first the FULTON, and later the CRAFTSMAN names.
Montgomery Ward sold the Stanley 45 under their name.
Keeping track of this information can be kinda confusing. 8^)


----------



## bandit571

Morning to ya….38 rainy degrees outside…..at least it isn't snow coming down….

This IS a FRIDAY, isn't it? One day closer to spring…..

Was unable to come up with a way to hold this short of a part….and use the 45….so









Part is about half the length of the Stanley 45.

Also, inregards to that Sargent thumbscrew….did you know the the bolts that hold a frog to a sargent made plane, also fit where those thumbscrews were….hmmm?


----------



## Bearcontrare

Thank you again for posting the link. I got those thimb screws ordered IMMEDIATELY!!!

Are y'all ready to get even more confused?

OK. Here are photos of the right hand side of the earlier, Sargent/Fulton/Sears combination plane;



















On the Fulton, we see a slitter and a Stanley style spur wheel nicker.
On the later, Sargent/Craftsman/Sears combination plane, the right hand side of the main body looks like this:



















No provision for a slitter and the rotating disk type nicker. Hmmmm….. Maybe Sargent ran into an patent issue with Stanley…...??? 
I don't really know, but y'all can see the differences in the two planes.


----------



## donwilwol

stanley made the 1080 for sargent for a few years


----------



## HokieKen

I think the slitter was something nobody ever used anyway and I have no idea what reasoning convinced Stanley to use that knicker design. They blades are hard to make, a PITA to sharpen and the machining on the body was much more costly than just a simple round pocket. IMO, Sargent went the right way leaving the slitter off and using the round knicker.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Oh wow, if that was the slitter on my 45 and it was pointing up, oh my!


----------



## Bearcontrare

Blaster, The funny thing is that the slitter was put in this way when I bought the Fulton plane at least 25 years ago. It was my first combination plane and I didn't know any better. I had to rely on books for information in those days. Never really gave it any thought.
That being said, as it was my first combination plane, I have used it umpteen times, and oddly enough, have received no injuries from the slitter in that position. 
I will, however, take steps so as not to anget the OSHA gods….. ;>D


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The slitter stays in that position on my 45 as well, it's really not an issue.


----------



## bandit571

Say that you make a molded edge…yet want to apply that to another edge. The Slitter was used to slice off that molded edge. Thicker stock? Cut from both faces of the stock. Slitter is double edged so it can go in either direction, according to the grain being cut.

Biggest reason some 45s are found without a slitter? Operator would stash them in the box the plane came in..slitter, depth stop, bolt and washer…..with a pretty good chance they would all get lost…


----------



## HokieKen

My slitter is upside down as well. If I flip it over, it's too long. I think last time I used it though I decided the slitter would just come off and go in the box with the plane.


----------



## Bearcontrare

I only remembered about the slitter being too long to store right-side up until I tried it a little while ago….

I knew that a few years ago. The damned Sandman hasta stop rubbin' me with "Oil of Old Age….." then I can remember stuff I'm sposed ta know….

Just watched a video yesterday where a guy cut a piece of 1/4" oak to width using the slitter on his 45. Went halfway through, flipped the board over and cut the rest of the way through. Worked very nicely!


----------



## Mosquito

Mine is also usually inverted and on the plane too. The number of times I've gotten myself with it is *significantly* fewer than number of times I've been told I'm going to by YouTube commenters lol


----------



## Bearcontrare

At least on my nice, purdy early 45, the slot for the slitter is further forward on the handle, so that narrows the chance of sustaining an injury.
And, it's purdier…...


----------



## Bearcontrare

I think some of you have had a similar experience in the combination plane world:
"Some" years ago (cough, cough…) I was wanting a combination plane, as I couldn't find all the wooden bodied planes I "needed" for woodworking.
Along came the Fulton (Sargent) plane. Perfectly complete, nice condition, decent price. Been working with it since then. Very nice plane. (But not a 45….)
Then the Ward's Master Quality (Stanley) 45 became available. In like-new condition, all complete, and it's a 45!!! So, the rationalization was "If I'm making tongue and groove projects, one plane can be set for each function" (No matter that the groove could be done with a plow plane….) So the Ward's 45 came home.
Then one fine day, at an indoor flea market I ran across a 45 marked Stanley, with only the long rods and no blades. Well, the Ward's 45 is in SUCH good shape, maybe it's better to preserve it and get this one as a "user". Then I found a fairly large, but not quite complete set of blades for it, so it would have it's own cutters.
In late 1998, I got the idea to assemble a "Y2K" tool kit, including as many traditional style tools which were available at the time. (Remember, all systems and EVERYTHING was supposed to fail as soon as the date became 2000) I also wouldn't be using my antuque tools as much….(right….) I was able to find one of those Stanley "Made in England" combination planes, which uses the same blades as the 45.
Then, against all odds, a complete Stanley 55 plane became available within my budget. (insert angel chorus here) Well, I HAD to have a 55. It does it ALL!!!
After a few years, a beautiful, floral patterned Type 2 Stanley 45 became available to me. This is just SO pretty, with black japanning and brass adjustment screws. This will make a nice showpiece, and U can just use it as a metal plow plane….. 
Most recently, the Craftsman (Sargent) combination plane came along. Just like the Fulton, except the fence has a knob on the top like a 45. Besides, it's marked "Craftsman", Asking price was low and with an "OBO" on it, I undertook some negotiations with the seller and wound up getting it about 25% less than asking price. So it has also come home.
I'm sure y'all see how all this happened to me…. That's why I say, I'm sure at least a couple of you have had similar experiences…..


----------



## Mosquito

Barry, I 100% guarantee you are definitely the only one to have that problem, without a doubt.

I swear these aren't mine. Definitely holding them for a friend ;-)










These too


----------



## rad457

Yup! thanks Mos. makes me feel a whole lot better, still wondering why I have two #46? The two #45 were easy to explain The Record #050, well it had a cool box!


----------



## Bearcontrare

Hey! Has anyone else here seen the British guy on Youtube showing how to flute with a 45?
He does it with the arms protruding from the right-hand side of the plane and the fence on backwards!
Not sure if he's left-handed, or did it for demonstration purposes, but it's pretty amazing!


----------



## Bearcontrare

Mos, I'm really liking the rack for the combination planes. Looks GREAT! I may have to "borrow" that idea…..
It's very nice of you to so carefully store your friend's planes in the china cabinet. I wish my wife was half as tolerant…... LOL


----------



## Mosquito

lol the china cabinet is out in my shop, and came from my parents. They inherited my grandparents' china hutch, which was much nicer than theirs (the above pictured one), and asked if I wanted this one. I said only if they were ok with me using it as a display case in the shop, and they were fine with it. So I modified it to be 3-door instead of center door, and it turned in to my #45 collection case (that's one of each distinct type known to exist).

I've made quite a few of those display stands for combination planes now, I made a bunch in a batch and I think I'm all out of them now lol I might have to make some more soon, or make some nicer ones. I have dreams of bringing the #45 type study to an MWTCA meet as a display one of these years


----------



## jimr80gs

> Hey! Has anyone else here seen the British guy on Youtube showing how to flute with a 45?
> He does it with the arms protruding from the right-hand side of the plane and the fence on backwards!
> Not sure if he s left-handed, or did it for demonstration purposes, but it s pretty amazing!
> 
> - Bearcontrare


I have not, and not finding. Do you have a link?


----------



## Bearcontrare

It's "Aah woodwork with Mitch Peacock". He has a series of videos on using the 45.
I put "Stanley Combination Plane" in the Youtube search box and this series came up among the other results. 
The videos are nicely done without a lot of unnecessary yapping, as so many are prone to do.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> The videos are nicely done without a lot of unnecessary yapping, as so many are prone to do.
> 
> - Bearcontrare


He must have found your channel Mos'. ;-p


----------



## Mosquito

Ah Mitch Peacock, yeah I'm familiar with his channel. Watched a couple of them, but not all. He actually finished his series on the #45, I haven't and probably won't at this point, unless I redo the ones I've already done again (because the video quality change would drive me nuts)

And I agree with Kenny, that Mosquito guy….
It's funny, I've gotten people telling me I talk too much and just to do video of the project with no talking, and then people that say it's pointless when I do one of those lol

So… I just make the video I want and ignore the rest


----------



## DanKrager

> Hey! Has anyone else here seen the British guy on Youtube showing how to flute with a 45?
> He does it with the arms protruding from the right-hand side of the plane and the fence on backwards!
> Not sure if he s left-handed, or did it for demonstration purposes, but it s pretty amazing!
> 
> - Bearcontrare


The Brits drive on the wrong side of the road, too. So there's that.

DanK


----------



## Bearcontrare

Hey Mos, I have NO problem with people talking WHILE they're showing parts of, or demonstrating a tool. It's the self-appinted "experts" or "Video Stars" who stare at the camera and flap their lips for 15-20 minutes before they ever THINK about getting around to using or showing the tool.
I exit those videos PDQ, and move on to one that us actually useful…..


----------



## Bearcontrare

Need to make a couple of rods, so I took the fence without the thumb screws in it for the Sargent to my local big box. (Literally one block away…..) Tried the 3/8ths rod and it worked perfectly.
I was expecting to be questioned about the dingy plane fence at checkout. The entirely complacent look on the middle aged female clerk was probably more enjoyable than the "You're about 100 years too late asking me about this piece" conversation I'd anticipated. The best vacant stare I've ever seen….


----------



## 33706

Love the cabinet,* Mos*!!
If I had the room I'd snag one of those freebie deals on CL or FB Marketplace, for my planes too nice to actually use.


----------



## bandit571

The Stackables…


----------



## KentInOttawa

That looks good, Bandit. Some day (yeah, right), I'll get around to making some boxes for some of mine, especially the variants of the 78 that I have.


----------



## Mosquito

All my boxes are in the drawers and cabinets below lol. The combo plans on the open shelves have their boxes on shelves above


----------



## KentInOttawa

^^^ pickmike flagged as spam.


----------



## Bearcontrare

Hey, Mos,

Yesterday, I ran across your video making a simple ogee with a 45, and enjoyed it thoroughly. I'll be looking up your other videos in the evening.

I also watched Mitch Peacock make a box for his 45. What I liked about his box was he made fixtures to hold the extra stops and cam rest, and storage for the long rods under the plane. Pretty spiffy!


----------



## Bearcontrare

Enjoyed watching the video of the homemade chest your 45 came in Mos.
While we might question some of the joinery used, the chest itself was laid out pretty nicely. I like how the H & R blades were in their own section with the special soles for them.
Love seeing these old chests. They're always very interesting and sometimes one gets some ideas from them. 
Wonderful vintage piece!


----------



## Mosquito

Awesome Barry, thanks! That chest is pretty sweet. It's like a mini English chest a la Schwarz. I've been off and on thinking about ways to improve it, and make a more everyday use storage box for my user #45(s).


----------



## KentInOttawa

I've been having some difficulties with my Record 050C; it kept jamming the ejected chips when I was using the 1/4" cutter. Grrrrr! So after a bit of pondering, I tried using the "wide blade attachment", a.k.a. the auxiliary skate.

Well, what do you know? It will actually work with a 1/4" blade. Wide blade, my ass!



















A quick test cut, and I can see that my fence is set where I want it.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice work Kent! Nice Record tool also.

Hey all, got a question on this "thing" I picked up the other day. I know what the plane is but what in seven shades of purple is that fence in the middle about? Doesn't look Stanley or at least to me it don't. Anyone know what plane it's from?


----------



## HokieKen

Almost looks shop made Mike: is it a casting or something made out of steel plate?


----------



## BlasterStumps

I will guess cast but I will need to do some cleaning on it to see it better. Strange little bugger, huh?


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, it's definitely not original but it looks like it would do the job fine. It'll need to change positions with the skate of course and I'd probably hunt up some nicer screws for it but it looks serviceable


----------



## Bearcontrare

Verrrrry Innnntersting, as Artie Johnson usta say.
The majority of this thing is a nice OLD combination plane, with a "homey-did" fence.
Looks like with some "elbow grease", this will be a nice looking, very usable plane.


----------



## BlasterStumps

It has taken me two days so far just to get it apart. When I finally got the long threaded rod out, it appears the threads on it are buggered. The threads in the plane body look better. Not sure how I will treat those threads on the rod to clean them up. Probably a weird thread and size. : (.

There was someone that I remember made new scales for the handle on a 45. I have not done that so it will be a real learning experience. I'm open to any and all advice on how to proceed with that.

One of the thread bosses on the sliding section is broken. Might see what can be done with it. It may need some metal added so the thumb screw will hold. One good thing is that with this plane came the 1/4" cutter that I didn't have. That was probably worth nearly the cost of the plane.


----------



## HokieKen

Here's how I went about making a new tote for my 45 Mike.

I'm fairly sure those threads on the fence rods are 9/32-28 but mine doesn't have threaded rods so I can't verify. In any case, if the internal threads are okay, a file like this can be used to repair external threads.


----------



## bandit571

Making noodles, today…needed 15 grooves done..









To house 5 drawer bottoms…









Made a big mess on the floor..









Bowl of Pho, anyone?

#12 cutter. Had an issue…cutter wanted to shift to the right, to far, causing the plane to jam up….a few taps with a mallet to even things out…a little candle wax into the groove…and..HANG ON TIGHT…

I push the plane with my right leg….Right Knee was "Not amused" even with the knee brace..


----------



## BlasterStumps

I might need to go the file route. The rod threads are larger dia than 1/4" but smaller than 5/16". They do look to be 28 tpi or really close. I figured they would be weird. At least I don't have anything in my junk set of taps and dies that will fit .28125. : (


----------



## bandit571

Seems I have a slightly newer version…type 5, maybe?









Left side….yes, that IS the wrong depth stop…couldn't find the right one…works just fine..









Long rods because I was going to mill a few dados…just outside the reach of the short rods…









All set up…note the fence?









Never had anything attached to it, and was never drilled, anyway…


----------



## Mosquito

Bandit, if the body is nickel plated, and not just wire brushed to death, that's a Type 4. Type 5 would have the depth adjustment on it


----------



## bandit571

Still has plenty of Nickel plating on it….Type 4 it is, then.









These 2 planes got in a bit of work, last night…..the 71-1/2 is a Type 5, last I checked..grooves for runners to slide in..









The short rods were a bit too short…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Made a little progress on the real rough 46. I was able to get it apart, clean it and now looking into repairing some things. Needs a knob and handle and; since I see zero nickeling left on it, it might get painted. I removed the spurs and may just not bother to put them back. Had to drill out one of the screws so only have the one good one. Here is what it looks like with some cleaning done:









With the addition of the 1/4" cutter that was still in this old plane, I am getting close to having a full set now:









Here is my other 46 with the latest acquisition. Looks like the one I just found is somewhat older.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Mike. Yeah the one you're working on now is older, back when they had the fence and sliding skate as one thing (the keyhole slots in the sliding section is where the fence pieces goes).

If nothing else, the irons look pretty dang good, compared to the plane when it first showed up


----------



## BlasterStumps

Finished the handle for the 46. Won't mount it though until I decide what I am going to do, paint or leave naked metal. All I have for paint is Brilliant Blue. 

















The real trick is going to be finding a bolt/screw for the knob.


----------



## BlasterStumps

kenny, thanks for the info on making a handle. I appreciate it. helped a lot.


> Here s how I went about making a new tote for my 45 Mike.
> 
> I m fairly sure those threads on the fence rods are 9/32-28 but mine doesn t have threaded rods so I can t verify. In any case, if the internal threads are okay, a file like this can be used to repair external threads.
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## HokieKen

I'll try to remember to measure the threads on the knob on my 46 Mike. If it's an odd size, I can make you one. Someday…


----------



## bandit571

Might have such a bolt in the spares box..will look it up tomorrow…actually they are on my desk









If you think they MIGHT work..


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks guys for the info on the knob screw but the whole plane is probably not worth what the shipping would cost. I will come up with one/something. : ). Thank you both though.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Got a so-called knob made. Now on to trying to fix threads on one of the rods.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks great!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Smitty.

Spent some more time on it and got it back together minus the spurs. Slapped a scrap of wood onto the fence piece. Anxious to get a sharp cutter in it now and give it a go.



















Plowed the garden sites today so didn't get a whole lot of time to play with the 46.


----------



## RWE

Very nice job Blaster. I like your wood selection and the paint job is perfect.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Looks excellent!!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks guys for the kind words!

Making the handle for that 46 was a first for me. A bit harder than I thought it would be. I had to drag this thing down off the shelf to cut the slot in the handle. After a couple test cuts, I was able to dial it in pretty good with this jig. The slot had to be just a whisker wider than the saw kerf but when cut to width, still in the middle of the piece of wood. Nailed it!


----------



## RWE

> Thanks guys for the kind words!
> 
> Making the handle for that 46 was a first for me. A bit harder than I thought it would be. I had to drag this thing down off the shelf to cut the slot in the handle. After a couple test cuts, I was able to dial it in pretty good with this jig. The slot had to be just a whisker wider than the saw kerf but when cut to width, still in the middle of the piece of wood. Nailed it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BlasterStumps


I guess it was kind of like the problem you can have getting a centered slot for a saw plate in a newly made saw handle. If you ever attempt that, take some advice, cut a rough blank, then while it is still rough, cut the slot for the plate. That way if you goof the slot up, you have not wasted a lot of time shaping a handle that will not work. Also, go ahead and get your saw nut holes lined up and drilled before you shape.

Just an analogy, but the problem you solved reminded me of the difficulty of a getting a new saw handle fitted.

Very interesting rig in your picture. Did the mortising jig come that way or did you do shop modifications. The ones I have looked at always attached to the table saw fence. Looks like an oldie but goodie, 50's 60's??

I think your jig would solve the saw handle slot issue just fine.


----------



## BlasterStumps

That is how the jig came to me. I added the wood jaw pieces and made a tote for it. The original tote was good but just too small for my hand. Its always fun to grab onto this old jig and move it around, it weighs 30#. Not sure about the age of it. I think it is an 1172 model. Would be cool to have a table saw blade thin enough for cutting the slot for handles. But I don't. I think the miter gauge is on there to hold small pieces for running thru a shaper. I don't have the clamp handle that would have been with it but I think my Shopsmith handle will work, not sure. I've never used it but there is this height stop rod that I have with it.


----------



## RWE

> That is how the jig came to me. I added the wood jaw pieces and made a tote for it. The original tote was good but just too small for my hand. Its always fun to grab onto this old jig and move it around, it weighs 30#. Not sure about the age of it. I think it is an 1172 model. Would be cool to have a table saw blade thin enough for cutting the slot for handles. But I don t.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Well hang on to it. One is  $375 buy it now Ebay. Seems Rockwell and Delta sold it.
Have not seen any info on the date range yet, but I stick with 50-60's as a guess. Seems to have reached collectible status.

It has soul. It is old. I like it.

*Also, you can move from 10 inch (I assume) saw blades to a smaller diameter and not have to pay for the thin 10 inch. I had never thought of that, but saw it somewhere on YouTube. As long as your slot doesn't need to be too deep, you can down size and get thin for a lot less cost.
*


----------



## BlasterStumps

I've had this jig for a number of years. I think it was $35 when I found it.


----------



## Mosquito

Anyone looking for either of these #46 irons? Rabbets (1-1/4), and the tongue cutting iron. I don't think they saw much of any use in their life. Run through the wire wheel to knock off loose rust, but that's it. Minor pitting on the tongue cutter, but should be quick to work through. They seem to sell around $35-$40 and shipping, but I'm sure we could probably come in under that, especially if both were involved.


----------



## jimr80gs

I'm seeking some advise on using the slitter on my 45, need some real thins strips to add to dog ramp.

Setting slitter to half depth of wood, some soft pine, results in back of skates not touching but when I raise slitter for shallower cut then adjust after a few passes I loose the rear depth stop, and spending way too much time getting both "right".

Any tips? Thanks

Jim


----------



## HokieKen

I think when using the slitter, you don't want the skates on the wood Jim. I am just basing this on videos I've seen since I've never actually used the slitter but, I think you want to set the fence for the thickness of your piece and register it on the edge of the board. Then set the front depth stop to regulate your depth of cut. If you're slicing all the way through, I don't see that you even need to rear depth stop. If it were me, I'd probably go a little over half way then flip the board and go from the other side rather than try to cut all the way through from one side.

Maybe someone who has actually done it can set me straight though ;-)


----------



## jimr80gs

Thanks Kenny. I haven't seen any YT videos using a slitter, I'll have to search some more. Maybe Chris will take a break from his restoration and make one.


----------



## bandit571

IF I recall correctly….You only use the Main Stock when slitting….and it's skate will act as the fence. You can set both depth stops on that side….to help out

There was a YT Video…by a guy named Peacock?


----------



## jimr80gs

Found one, and I've been subscribed to his channel for years…






my error was working right side of board and both skates. I'm slitting about an 1/8 off, first part of video is what I should do.


----------



## DanKrager

I noticed something on Peacock's video that may be significant.

Removing the strip, he had the slitter bevel towards the board from which he was removing the tongue. Me thinks the bevel should be mounted so that the flat side is toward the board and the bevel in the waste.

Later in the video he shows how to cut a strip from the edge of the board, and the bevel is in the same position as before, towards the remaining board. In this situation, the board is the waste and the bevel is appropriately towards it.

So, I'm offering my experience as a general principle operating the slitter: bevel towards the waste. YMMV.

DanK


----------



## bandit571

The slitter has no "flat" side. It has 4 bevels, 2 to the front, and 2 to the rear…

The 2 spurs/knickers on a #45 do have a flat side, though…


----------



## DanKrager

I stand corrected, Bandit. You are right about the four bevels on the standard equipment. Makes for a very shallow cutting angle minimizing wedging and drifting

DanK


----------



## jimr80gs

My slitter has the 4 side as bandit says, and slitter is pretty sharp. After playing around for an hour or two I'm pretty sure I'll be using a 20" rip saw in the future. 

Wood is pretty soft, 1/2 thick, pallet wood, and I cut half way through and then turned to attempt to minimize slitter bevel impact.

Likely the slitter needs to be sharper, striving for perfection, but even with very shallow cuts there is lots of "tearing" of fibers. I tried a knife score along straight edge to avoid slitter following grain but still resulted in tearing. Peacock also shows having to plane both cuts.

Still, something I haven't tried before, maybe some harder and thinner wood next time I play with this.

Thanks for the comments and assistance.


----------



## bandit571

Need to plough grooves for a drawer bottom










All reset, from doing beads, to doing grooves…









Stanley No. 45, Type 20…...Roxton Pond, QUE, Canada..


----------



## bandit571

Once I got the depth set "just right"...it was cutting a groove in Ash like warm butter….first trip, though, was a tad too deep..retract a full turn….and hit the sweet spot…A bit of candle wax didn't hurt, either….just have to hold on a little tighter..

I suppose I need to go and take a picture or 2??


----------



## bandit571

20 minutes..plus process the pictures…









This is the drawer front…while I was down there…couldn't help meself..









Was having too much fun, making noodles…









That old candle helps out, too…

1 front, 1 side…so, the before…









Side 2…kind of grainy….and the after..









And, took the time to get a second plane set up..









With a #16 cutter…









Getting it ready to cut 2 dados….









Made a mess, too…but it was..FUN!


----------



## donwilwol

I thought this might be a Stanley #45 screwdriver. I can read the bottom line of the inscription "New York"

Any idea?


----------



## Notw

For someone who doesn't necessarily 'need' a Stanley 45 but thinks one would look really nice in their 'non' collection but knows little about the 45 what would they look for on somewhere like eBay as to make sure to get all the pieces and parts. I know finding one complete with all the cutters would be expensive and since I don't necessarily need one but want one I can wait to collect all of the cutters over time. Just don't want to get one and it be missing some obscure piece that is next to impossible to find. Also since it is a want I have no problem getting one in less than stellar condition and rehabbing it myself, I really enjoy that part anyway.


----------



## bandit571

Shorter one is a WM Johnson of Newark NJ

Longer one is a H.S.B & Co.


----------



## HokieKen

Almost looks like the other side of the inscription may say DUNLAP? It's mostly covered by the ferrule but the last 4 letters sure look like NLAP.


----------



## HokieKen

> For someone who doesn t necessarily need a Stanley 45 but thinks one would look really nice in their non collection but knows little about the 45 what would they look for on somewhere like eBay as to make sure to get all the pieces and parts. I know finding one complete with all the cutters would be expensive and since I don t necessarily need one but want one I can wait to collect all of the cutters over time. Just don t want to get one and it be missing some obscure piece that is next to impossible to find. Also since it is a want I have no problem getting one in less than stellar condition and rehabbing it myself, I really enjoy that part anyway.
> 
> - Notw


Depends on what you consider "expensive." They really aren't that hard to find complete with the standard set of cutters. It's when you get into the Hollows/Rounds that the wallet starts to shrink.

Regarding the plane itself, make sure the sliding skate is there and that the fence is there and complete. Earlier models had a one-piece fence with a Rosewood liner and later models had a 2-piece fence with "micro-adjust". I recommend the 2-piece fence from a user standpoint but it's not a huge consideration.

There are 2 depth stops, one near the front of the main body and one near the back where the "slitter" mounts. The slitter is utterly useless but if you're like me, you want it anyway ;-) I would make sure both of those depth stops are present. I use both of them. Most people don't use the rear one though I don't think.

From a user standpoint, I recommend one that has a depth adjuster for the cuttter rather than earlier models where you have to set it by trial/error/luck. I also like the front depth stop on the later models that has a nut to adjust the depth in addition to the locking screw.

There should be a tri-lobe knicker on the sliding skate and one on the main body. Make sure they're both there and that the screw is there for both. Then make sure you don't loose one of those screws. DAMHIKT.

There's a wingnut to lock the cutter, a thumbscrew to lock the front depth stop, a flanged thumbscrew to mount the slitter and rear depth stop, two thumb screws to fix the sliding skate and two to lock the fence position. If it's a 2-piece fence, there's also a knurled screw for the micro-adjust and two knurled screws to lock the sliding portion to the fixed portion. And there should be a thumb screw on the sliding skate for an optional beading depth stop. I *think* that thumbscrew came with the plane rather than with the beading stop but I may be wrong about that.

There are 2 sets of rods for the fence/sliding skate, a long pair and a short pair. From a user standpoint, you probably only need one pair and it probably doesn't matter which size but I leave the long ones on all the time. On early models, the rods were threaded on the end and screw into the main body. On most models though, there are two screws in the main body that lock the rods in position.

If you want to post links here to ones you're considering, I'll be happy to look and see if I see any glaring omissions. And you might ping Mos'. Good chance he has one or five to unload un unsuspecting LJs ;-) In my experience, the most often missing parts are the sliding skate, the slitter and one set of fence rods. Make sure every hole has a screw in it too. You don't want to have to buy any of those…


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## donwilwol

> For someone who doesn t necessarily need a Stanley 45 but thinks one would look really nice in their non collection but knows little about the 45 what would they look for on somewhere like eBay as to make sure to get all the pieces and parts. I know finding one complete with all the cutters would be expensive and since I don t necessarily need one but want one I can wait to collect all of the cutters over time. Just don t want to get one and it be missing some obscure piece that is next to impossible to find. Also since it is a want I have no problem getting one in less than stellar condition and rehabbing it myself, I really enjoy that part anyway.
> 
> - Notw


I'm about to list this one https://www.lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/33401

If you want it I will sell it for $35 plus shipping.
The only thing that is actually wrong other than some remnant pitting is the micro adjuster no longer works.
It's a user.


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## Mosquito

Kenny pretty much has it covered, the real expense is in piecing these together, more-so than finding a complete one with irons.

I didn't see Kenny mention the cam-rest, though to be honest I almost never use mine. There were two styles of this as well, one with a wing nut and one with a screw. The style with the screw are much more robust, and the wing nut style are oft found broken.

I know I've got at least one or two, but neither are 100% complete

Don, none of my screwdrivers have stamps, I don't think, but I've only got one that's that era, I believe. I'll have a look and see tonight.


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## HokieKen

I thought the cam rest was an accessory Mos? Was it included with the plane? Just curious. I have one but the SOB I bought the plane from didn't include it. I had to source it after the fact. ;-)

Don, what's wrong with the micro adjust on that one. Looks like all the parts are there other than the side screws?


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## Mosquito

As far as I know once they started making them, they were shipped with the planes. They're probably one of the top 3 most often missing parts, along side beading stops and slitters lol


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## donwilwol

> I thought the cam rest was an accessory Mos? Was it included with the plane? Just curious. I have one but the SOB I bought the plane from didn t include it. I had to source it after the fact. ;-)
> 
> Don, what s wrong with the micro adjust on that one. Looks like all the parts are there other than the side screws?
> 
> - HokieKen


threads are stripped

I've got one more to go
Better shape, a set of irons missing a few and a custom made box


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## HokieKen

> As far as I know once they started making them, they were shipped with the planes. They re probably one of the top 3 most often missing parts, along side beading stops and slitters lol
> 
> - Mosquito


Ha. I thought the beading stop was also a purchased-separately accessory. They guy I bought mine from really did shaft me!


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## Mosquito

you didn't get a screwdriver either, so you weren't that screwed over


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## Notw

Don, how much would you want for the second one and does it have all it's parts and does the micro adjuster work?


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## controlfreak

> Don, how much would you want for the second one and does it have all it s parts and does the micro adjuster work?
> 
> - Notw


I have on I can part with, I need to look at it and take a picture if you are interested. My shop is too small for duplicates.


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## donwilwol

> Don, how much would you want for the second one and does it have all it s parts and does the micro adjuster work?
> 
> - Notw


it's listed on Facebook. More pictures https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1751842708510074/

Price is negotiable. If you don't do face book let me know I'll add a post to my website with the images

edit: It is listed for $268, but that includes shipping


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## RWE

While this 45 thread is hopping along, can anyone give me a little feedback on an irons issue.

Several months back, I bought a Craftsman 1080 with no irons. So I picked up one today on Ebay. (3/8). I now have an example with the notches required.

My plan was to take some duplicates in my Stanley 45 beading cutters and square off the bottom edge and then cut notches to match the Sargent/Craftsman notches.

*What I want to know (Kenny, Mos, Don or other savants on the subject) is this: Are the irons annealed/hardened high enough on say a beading cutter, that you would have a hard edge if you cut off the contour from a beading iron.*

I have never tried to anneal/harden a piece of metal. I have watched a lot of Forged in Fire however. LOL.

Also, I would be using a CBN wheel to shape the edge and would be careful to not over hear it. Also, I am a savant as well, most probably an Idiot Savant, skewed toward the idiot side of things.


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## donwilwol

> I have never tried to anneal/harden a piece of metal. I have watched a lot of Forged in Fire however. LOL.
> 
> - RWE


Heat it cherry red until it is non magnetic, dip it in canola oil for 30 seconds or so, let it cool, put it in a toaster oven at 400 degrees for 2 hours, let it cool, turn the toaster oven back on at 400 degrees for 2 hours, let it cool, Buff out, sharpen and use.


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## HokieKen

I don't really know RWE. I would imagine those blades are hardened along the full length since they're so small but I can't guarantee it. Like Don said though, it's pretty easy to make it hard if you find it isn't.


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## Lazyman

RWE, best way to see if the cutter is hardened at the far end is to test with a file to see if it skates over or cuts. I bought a Craftsman (Sargent) 1080 a while back too and I have a few old Stanley cutters I have been thinking about modifying with the correct notches too. I really like the knicker on the Sargent version. A much better and more useful design, IMO.


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## Bearcontrare

For those buying a Stanley or Sargent combination plane or other more complex plane one of the most important things you want to see is ALL OF THE SCREWS for the various adjustments are present.
Cutters, stops, knobs, and the like can be easily replaced. But both Stanley and Sargent used screws with specialized threads. Finding replacement screws can put a BIG dent in your budget!!!
Been there, done that. Ain't fallin' in THAT hole again…


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## RWE

> RWE, best way to see if the cutter is hardened at the far end is to test with a file to see if it skates over or cuts. I bought a Craftsman (Sargent) 1080 a while back too and I have a few old Stanley cutters I have been thinking about modifying with the correct notches too. I really like the knicker on the Sargent version. A much better and more useful design, IMO.
> 
> - Lazyman


My good friend has a "new to him" Bridgeport Milling machine. We are milling some Mitre Box stops/clamps for a 358 and a 246, so I may add those Stanley irons into the mix to be converted. If they don't hold an edge, i will try the hardening thing. Maybe this is in the Idiot realm, but he is getting bar stock from McMaster Carr for those clamps (L shape, round up post on flat stock, seems to be screwed into the flat base). I guess if the prices were not too high, you could get flat stock and make your own combination plane irons, mill the notches and heat treat.


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## HokieKen

Can't mill hardened blades RWE. It'll just burn your tooling up.


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## RWE

> Can't mill hardened blades RWE. It'll just burn your tooling up.
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks. I guess the idiot is shining in me. At least i knew enough to never as yet to try to harden an iron. A hacksaw and Dremel cutter it is.

As Clint stated: "A man has to know his limitations."


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## Bearcontrare

I know it's a kind of a PITA, but I have seen some guys put the notch in Stanley irons to fit Sargent planes with a small file. I would think a Dremel with a cutting wheel would get 'er done. Then clean up with a file… Course, you'd prolly go through a few cutting wheels afore you notch all the blades you want…


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## RWE

> I know it s a kind of a PITA, but I have seen some guys put the notch in Stanley irons to fit Sargent planes with a small file. I would think a Dremel with a cutting wheel would get er done. Then clean up with a file… Course, you d prolly go through a few cutting wheels afore you notch all the blades you want…
> 
> - Bearcontrare


I have a tile saw with a diamond blade. I have used it to cut saw plates out of raw stock. I will check the thickness of the kerf on that wheel and the Sargent iron. I finally got a Sargent iron in to use as a reference.

Like cutting saw teeth, I figure if I can get the notch started, but not to depth, then I can finish it with a file or tweak it with the Dremel and a file.


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## DJohn

Buying one tomorrow


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## Mosquito

DJohn said:


> Buying one tomorrow


Awesome! That one specifically? Looks in good shape, and that's probably my favorite box


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## DJohn

Mosquito said:


> Awesome! That one specifically? Looks in good shape, and that's probably my favorite box


Yes it is.


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## DJohn

DJohn said:


> ......


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## BlasterStumps

Great find DJohn. What is the wood piece on the left in the picture?


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## Mosquito

BlasterStumps said:


> Great find DJohn. What is the wood piece on the left in the picture?


In the first picture? Should be a cover for the iron box


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## HokieKen

Nice find DJohn.


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## DJohn

Mosquito said:


> In the first picture? Should be a cover for the iron box


Picking it up tomorrow . 5 hr round trip


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## DJohn




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## DJohn

DJohn said:


> This was my first plane/hand tool rescue. My father's old Record 405. It was completely seized when I got it and I broke the piece that screwed to the rosewood fence trying to dismantle it. My brother in law worked in a shipyard at the time and he took it to a guy there to get welded, but it got misplaced. I still have the rosewood fence. That was 46 years ago.
> View attachment 3856604


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## HokieKen

Wow, 5 hours in a vehicle for a franken-bastard? In case you aren't aware, that appears to be a Record body with Stanley accessories. I don't know if that's a functional issue or not but I bet Mos' does.


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## DJohn

HokieKen said:


> Wow, 5 hours in a vehicle for a franken-bastard? In case you aren't aware, that appears to be a Record body with Stanley accessories. I don't know if that's a functional issue or not but I bet Mos' does.


NO No, That's a different one


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## DJohn

DJohn said:


> NO No, That's a different one


The Record was my Dad's


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## theoldfart

Dr. John, are you getting a Record 404 or a Stanley 45?

edit I got excited about the 405 but oh well. A Stanley will do!


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## HokieKen

DJohn said:


> NO No, That's a different one


Ahhh. That makes more sense


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## DJohn

theoldfart said:


> Dr. John, are you getting a Record 404 or a Stanley 45?
> 
> edit I got excited about the 405 but oh well. A Stanley will do!


I have my Dad's Record 405 already. I will post a pic of both side by side when I can.


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## theoldfart

I have both models as well. The Record has all the cutters along with the H&R’s. Just need the get the nose base and cutter to complete the family.


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## DJohn

theoldfart said:


> I have both models as well. The Record has all the cutters along with the H&R’s. Just need the get the nose base and cutter to complete the family.


Awesome. How long have you had it?


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## DJohn

Operating Instructions : Record No. 405 Multi-Plane : Record Ridgway Tools Ltd. : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive


16 p., illus., 12.8 cm, trade catalog



archive.org


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## theoldfart

About seven years or so. Just got the H&R’s last year, in original boxes no less. I do have two surplus sets.

I used this as a guide to using the plane








Planecraft - Hand planing by Modern Methods: Hampton, C. W., Clifford, E.: 9780918036001: Amazon.com: Books


Planecraft - Hand planing by Modern Methods [Hampton, C. W., Clifford, E.] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Planecraft - Hand planing by Modern Methods



www.amazon.com


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## Lazyman

theoldfart said:


> About seven years or so. Just got the H&R’s last year, in original boxes no less. I do have two surplus sets.


So you are the one who outbid me. 😁


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## theoldfart

Not sure Nathan, got ‘em from der Leachmister!
Patrick Leach.


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## DJohn

Home to meet her new family....


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## DJohn

I've got a question: Were all those 45's Sweethearts ?


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## HokieKen

DJohn said:


> I've got a question: Were all those 45's Sweethearts ?



From the type study I have, types 13-15 (1921-1935) were Sweethearts.


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## DJohn

HokieKen said:


> From the type study I have, types 13-15 (1921-1935) were Sweethearts.


Where can i find a good type study on those?


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## DJohn




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## HokieKen

Here is the one I have DJohn. The late Drsurfrat put it together. I think Mos' has some others as well that used to be online but are no longer available.


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## DJohn

HokieKen said:


> Here is the one I have DJohn. The late Drsurfrat put it together. I think Mos' has some others as well that used to be online but are no longer available.


Thanks so much.


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## DJohn

Cleaned up pretty good...


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## bandit571

Have a Made in Canada 45...with a SW logo...Roxton Pond, made for Stanley. Type 20. Hmmm..


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## HokieKen

The type study I have only goes up to type 18 (1962) Bandit and it doesn’t have any of the Canadian ones on it.


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## KentInOttawa

I haven't seen any of the type studies myself, but IIRC I've previously read (in this thread?) that all the 45s made in Canada were Type 20s. I've always wondered if there were different variants of the Type 20s, such as different trademarks over the years or with/without the sweetheart. @Mosquito ?


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## Mosquito

Yeah, generally speaking, the type studies lump all "Canadian Made"* planes in to type 20, with a couple different trademark stamps on them.

*There's actually a few fairly well backed up arguments that the "Made in CAN" trademarks weren't in fact made in Canada, but instead stamped that way for advertising purposes. But I've yet to personally find anything that legitimately verifies or disproves that, so take that for what it is.


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## bandit571

Well, the wooden case mine came in...has the green label that says it was made in Roxton Pond, QUE CAN

and the Lady that sent it to me lives in Toronto, CAN.


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## Mosquito

bandit571 said:


> Well, the wooden case mine came in...has the green label that says it was made in Roxton Pond, QUE CAN
> 
> and the Lady that sent it to me lives in Toronto, CAN.


I never said Stanley didn't put "Made in CAN" on boxes or planes and sell them in Canada.

There are a few theories as to why American made planes had those Made in CAN trademarks in them to sell in Canada, from nationalistic Canadian sales to preferential tariffs to British colonies by going through Canada. But, there are a fair number of people out there (Roger K Smith, and David E Heckel, among them) that say the #45s were never actually made in Stanley's Canadian plant, but rather just given the Made in CAN trademark stamps and box labels. The instruction books with them, interestingly, were never changed to say made in Canada either, apparently.


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## KentInOttawa

Mosquito said:


> I never said Stanley didn't put "Made in CAN" on boxes or planes and sell them in Canada.
> 
> There are a few theories as to why American made planes had those Made in CAN trademarks in them to sell in Canada, from nationalistic Canadian sales to preferential tariffs to British colonies by going through Canada. But, there are a fair number of people out there (Roger K Smith, and David E Heckel, among them) that say the #45s were never actually made in Stanley's Canadian plant, but rather just given the Made in CAN trademark stamps and box labels. The instruction books with them, interestingly, were never changed to say made in Canada either, apparently.


I can understand that train of thought. Doing a quick Streetview romp through and around the Roxton Pond site and it won't take long to wonder how so many different products (planes, braces, screwdrivers, squares, etc.) could have come out of such a small plant. But, if they were, it doesn't mean the manuals needed to be printed here, too.


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## Mosquito

I don't think the manuals not saying made in Canada was the reason people don't think they were actually made in Canada, just an interesting factoid  Would be cool to see historic documentation of the happenings in the Roxton Pond facility, like that old Millers Falls walk down memory lane


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## HokieKen

I love that Millers Falls video Mos. It reminds of old pictures of the shop here at work from the 30s and 40s where guys were wearing ties and machining cast iron. They also had cigarettes in their mouths but no safety glasses😬


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## Mosquito

I've watched it a few times myself. Every time it pops up in a thread I'll rewatch it lol And yeah, at least they had cigarettes to filter any particulates out


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## Johnny7

Of possible relevance: Sometimes you get lucky...


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## Mosquito

Johnny7 said:


> Of possible relevance: Sometimes you get lucky...


Nice find! Seems they must have made #95s there, unless it was just a relabeling operation lol


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## DJohn

Mosquito said:


> Nice find! Seems they must have made #95s there, unless it was just a relabeling operation lol


Or assembly and distribution.....?


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## Mosquito

Also entirely possible, kinda like how many things are "assembled in the USA" now to avoid tariffs on finished goods


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## DJohn

Where can I find the dimensions of these logos, or does anyone have them
?


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## HokieKen

I have files for reproduction labels available here John. They are from a few different LJs who took the time to create them  They are for personal use only.


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## DJohn

HokieKen said:


> I have files for reproduction labels available here John. They are from a few different LJs who took the time to create them  They are for personal use only.


Thanks so much. The plan is to send these to a friend of mine who works for a sign printer and have him make foil stickers for me. 


HokieKen said:


> I have files for reproduction labels available here John. They are from a few different LJs who took the time to create them  They are for personal use only.


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## BlasterStumps

I gave the newly acquired plane a clean. It's missing the sliding section but I have a couple that I could use with it. I think I might set this one up for beading. Not sure how to do that just yet but will look into it.


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## bandit571

2 sitting around on "Stand-by"








One has just finished it's jobs...








had 12 grooves to plough....the other is waiting to cut a few dados..








Type 5 now has a nice case to call home...at least it still has it's spurs..can no longer use them in that Type 20...too wallered out. 
Was a bit busy, today..








Just doing the grooves...


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