# First on the Block to Get the New Plane



## whitedog

you could send me that old #5 if you want to … thanks for the review


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## chriswright

Thanks for the review. It's nice to see there's a less costly alternative to Lee Neilson that performs just as well.


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## 8iowa

After seeing their ad, I called Woodcraft tech support. Yes, they are made in China. After being "burned" with Woodcraft's Chinese tapered drills made out of soft steel, and a seven piece Forstner bit set, where the 3/8" bit wouldn't even drill in soft wood, I'm not going to buy another Chinese tool whose purpose is cutting.

I'm not making a political statement here. Maybe you got tools that will cut satisfactorily, but I'm not going to spend my money on any more Chinese cutting tools, Woodcraft or otherwise.


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## dsb1829

Well, thanks for the review. I am not entirely thrilled by the line, but such is the way of the world these days. Unfortunately the state is self inflicted. This goes off topic quick, so I will quit here. I had a set of Groz planes, the irons appeared to be a low quality alloy, very prone to rust. I will be curious to see the longer term reviews of these bargain planes.


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## mnguy

I am new to hand planes, but I have a Lee Valley block plane and their bevel up smoother, and I can't recommend them enough. They are about 2x the price of these Woodcraft planes, but they excellent tools. And, they're made in Canada.


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## Sachbvn

Thanks for the review…. Wood River IMHO isn't a name that screams "lasting quality"... I have a few Wood River cutting tools - and I got them for one simple reason. Cheap. I needed something for a very limited use. So far I've been fairly pleased with the products I do own, however I do suspect the longevity is going to be limited.

Regardless - the Wood River planes you reviewed DID catch my eye when I saw them in the Woodcraft catalog. They looked too nice to be total trash - but hadn't seen any reviews leaning one way or another. Glad to know that they seemed to have produced a pretty good little series of planes.

FWIW - I think your review was well written and of actual observations….. nice work!

Thanks,
Zac


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## SST

Thanks for the review. Well done. I love hand planes, old & new. Every time I see something like this, I'm tempted to try one, but then I go to my shop & pick up one of my old Stanleys, and remember that, on balance, they're relatively cheap in the used market, and have always done as good a job as I've ever asked of them. So I go spend my money on other tools.- SST


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## manilaboy

Isn't it nice that you 'jocks in the States/Canada now have more to choose from? Here in the Philippines it's going to be a Stanley(UK) or the totally crap one from China. And the only models I've seen available from Stanley so far, are the no. 3, 4 and two models of their low angle blocks.


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## 8iowa

I splurged for my first hand plane, a Clifton #5, made in England. This is simply a beautiful precision tool, ready to go right out of the box. My second plane was an Anant #4 (India). I worked on it for several hours and it now works OK - nothing to brag about. since then I have acquired #'s 4, 5 and 6 vintage Stanley/Bailey planes. After removing rust, cleaning them up, polishing the soles, and sharpening the blades, they work superbly. there are still many Stanley/Baileys "out there" at garage sales, antique stores and flea markets.


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## manilaboy

Cessna,

Mail order from the US to halfway around the world? Hehehe. Postage could probably buy me a ticket to the US. It will be more cost effective to learn to make my own plane and probably a lot more enjoyable, rewarding, meaningful and gratifying to boot.

Isn't it funny how sane we rationalize whenever we don't have the money to buy the tools we like? Hehehe

Rico


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## jcees

Good review. But isn't buying from China kind of like petting a bad dog on the head for not eating *your *child?

I can't abide buying *ANYTHING *from China knowingly. It took me over an hour at the shoe store to find a pair that I liked, fit and was *not *made in China. Americans are moaning the loss of our manufacturing base while buying whatever at the WalMart where the *ONLY *reason to shop is for price. Quality is a foreign word to the Chinese and I for one try to shun the products born of a repressive regime and passed off to those whose only concern is saving a buck for the sake of expedience.

Call me crazy but I'd rather spend an afternoon tuning up a type 11 Stanley and installing an American made Hock iron than spend a dime on Chinese crap. There. I said it. *CRAP!!!* As far as I'm concerned they can go straight to the fiery depths of Dante's Infeno and take their cheap junk with them.

Or should I just get over it and say, "Nice doggie."

always,
J.C.

P.S. And they can take that garbage passed off as plywood with them too!


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## manilaboy

Well jcees this time I am going against you ;-)

Almost all my tools are made in China. It has served me well. The point is if they break down, buy a new one. The more expensive ones are gonna die on you sooner or later. For the cost one, you may be able to get two or three different tools. The trick is learning to use them within their limits. Any tool is going to fail when abused.

Rico


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## kiwi1969

I,ve said this before but i will say it again, you americans don,t realize how good you have it, you have choices that others don,t and one of those is to NOT buy chinese crap ( i,m with you on this on jcees). In this part of the world we just have to make do with the chinese crap or make it ourselves. No one imports the good stuff simply because no one here can afford it. A 300US dollar handplane works out to about 13500 peso,s and given the hourly rate of a furniture factory worker is 48peso,s you start to see why the chinese have a hold on the market. It,s fine if you,re an expat living here on US dollars or British pounds from a pension or investments, but if your like me and manilaboy earning peso,s then the reality is very different.
Of course you don,t NEED a 300 dollar handplane, but it would be nice to have a choice.


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## manilaboy

Attaboy kiwi!

By the way, a number of very successful furniture companies in the Philippines are based in Cebu and they are very well known worldwide. Do you happen to work for Dedon? Probably not. They specialize in wicker/woven furniture.

Regards,

Rico


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## kiwi1969

manilaboy, check your messages


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## Oscar

gotta disagree with a couple things in this thread. no disrespect intended, but there isn't anything made in china that can touch a LN or a LV plane. the chinese may make something that sorta looks like a LN/LV, but it ain't gonna perform like a LN/LV. and it ain't gonna last. which leads me to the above comment that "The more expensive ones are gonna die on you sooner or later." what nonsense. my grandkids' grandkids will be using my LN and LV planes long after i'm dead and gone, whereas that chinese tool probably won't outlive my old hound dog.

i understand that not everybody wants/needs/can afford the best tools out there, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that second-rate chinese tools are equal (or even remotely equivalent) to the best tools the US and Canada have to offer.


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## manilaboy

Hey Oscar,

Lighten up! It is very obvious that you are fanatical, a zealot even, for LN/LV tools. I would like to point out that the meaning of this paragraph should be taken in its entirety and context.

"Almost all my tools are made in China. It has served me well. The point is if they break down, buy a new one. The more expensive ones are gonna die on you sooner or later. For the cost one, you may be able to get two or three different tools. The trick is learning to use them within their limits. Any tool is going to fail when abused."

It simply means that in our situation, it is more cost effective/practical to buy these "Made in China" tools. What is nonsensical in that? It made a lot of sense to me and Kiwi.

You know your tools but your reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired.

Rico


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## bobdurnell

To my fellow Lumber Jocks-I appreciate the few positive comments but now I'm gonna lay into you. I said in my review that I have a few LN tools so my judgment would be fair. Now all I here is how crappy these new planes must be just because they are made in China. Until one goes and buys or tests these planes oneself there is no way one can judge them just because of the country of origin. I said these planes are great and I meant it. I've planed soft wood and hard wood with them and used my LN equivalent as a test basis, and the Wood River planes are right up there in all respects. You can't judge a book by its cover and from all the comments I've read that's exactly what some LJ's are doing. I don't mean to disrespect any LJ's for their ability or knowledge but to rate these tools you are just gonna take my word for them or go out there and buy you a few and test them yourself.


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## bobdurnell

Thank you CessnaPilotBarry, I called my local Woodcraft store and they said that they are already sold out of the block plane and are ordering more. One of the instructors that works there said the same thing I'm saying that these planes are a damn good knock off! Seeing is believing to use another adage.


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## manilaboy

For the life of me, I can not really understand why there are people who would participate in a forum like we have here at Lumberjocks and then react unpleasantly to postings which are not inline with their ideas. Specially in this section of Lumberjocks. This is the "REVIEWS" section. A review is a "PERSONAL" account of an individual's experience with using/buying a particular tool. That is his opinion and we should all respect that.

The objective of a forum is to have a free interplay of ideas. It may be totally opposed but an idea nonetheless. I am not against people posting an opposite idea in a forum. In fact, I welcome and will even ask for a dissenting opinion. It makes for a thorough and well rounded discussion of a topic. A reader will then have to process all these ideas. Which ideas are important to him and which are not. Which are practical and which are not. And so on. Based on all these, make an intelligent decision.

Bob's review above is right on. From his experience, the tool performed very well. And he highly recommends it as a viable option. The broader range of tools available at a more affordable price point appeals to me and Kiwi. These ideas make a lot of sense to me and most probably to a lot more 'Jocks out there.

Posting an opinion is one thing. Posting in a pleasant and tactful manner is another (at least to some 'jocks).

Rico


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## kiwi1969

Oscar I think manilaboy was refering to power tools not the hand planes in which LN andLV are certainly the benchmark for others to try and match and the ones I would buy given I would have to order them in sight unseen as opposed to visiting a dealer, which as i pointed out in my response is not possible here . Obviously the Chinese power tools are crap but thats down to the companies who order them ,not the manufacturers. As Cessnapilot says the Chinese can produce quality because Chinese companies only produce what the buyers want and if the price point is low then so is the quality of the product. The Germans, and many European companies, station TUV standards inspectors throughout asia in order to ensure the quality of the products going into the EU, but i,ve yet to meet anyone from the states doing the same although I know Delta and some others have inspectors in Taiwan, I would seriously doubt the cheap guys would bother for the price they pay for their products and allowing the chinese to do their own quality control is just plain dumb.
I think it,s a brave move for Woodcraft to bring these planes into an already crowded market given the reputation the chinese have. I,m sure they will get some resistance initialy but ultimatly price will win out.
I would also like to thank Bob for posting a balanced ,fair appraisel of the woodcraft planes, it was always going to get a variety of responses as soon as he mentioned the "C" word and i,m loving the "spirited" responses it did get ,it kinda gets the juices flowing. Thanks Bob!


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## jcees

Woodcraft *BRAVE???!?* You gotta be kiddin' me, Kiwi? Woodcraft is a retailer, of course they're going to offer product XYZ if there's enough margin! They're a business first and last. If they can hit a price point and still have plenty of margin then they will do it. Heck, even Garrett-Wade stooped several years ago to purveying goods from China. For businesses such as these you have to have products that deliver at least a modicum of value to the customer while assuring a healthy profit in the process. NEVER assume a retailer is motivated by virtue.

Follow the money…

always,
J.C.


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## Oscar

i'll never understand why canada & US (and the citizens thereof) have willingly surrendered the bulk of their manufacturing economies to countries (like china) that make inferior junk. you folks keep buying that chinese crap. i'll keep buying tools made in canada & US by companies that employ our friends and neighbors. when we're all either out of work or working for the chinese (not sure which would be worse actually), don't blame me.


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## Mule

I've heard some good things about those planes. Thanks for the review Bob. Now I'm going to go buy one of the block planes and give it a try.


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## joe21

Thanks for the post Bob. I have been in the market for a decent plane and spoke with WC about their new WR plane a few weeks ago. One of the guys I know that works their said they were a damm good plane for the money. After reading your take on them I went and picked up a #4. Very satisfied, thanks brother…


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## james04

Hi Bob,

Thank you for posting your review. I would like to ask you for a favor. Could you please measure the bed angle on the WR block plane. I picked one up and it has an angle of 19.5 deg. instead of the 12.5 claimed on the box. I am hoping it is just a case of the wrong plane wound up in my box. However I have read posters on another forum comment that the block planes they have seen looked to be standard angle as well. Perhaps a bad batch? Your help will be much appreciated.

James


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## rico

Good objective review Bro, I may be opinionated but some of these "jocks" need to put their hands where their mouths are and pick up one of these planes and try and be as objective as you and a few others were. I'll bet Lie has already checked one or two out himself.
p.s.: thanks for the wood river blockplane, for my birthday, my old LN was getting a bit rusty


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## bobdurnell

james04- Good eye I checked my Wood River block and I made a mistake. The plan doesn't have as low angle as the LN one. I really couldn't tell til I put them side by side. This doesn't change my opinion though.
I don't think it's a bad batch. Thanks for the observation.


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## james04

Hi Bob,

I agree about the plane. It is very nice for the money. I just needed a low angle block plane for trimming end grain. I was thinking about changing the pitch on the blade. But, as it turns out, I was able to pick up a used low angle.

James


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## JimJ

Lot's of pontificating in addition to reasonable comments.

I would dearly love to own a few LN or Veritas planes. Simple fact is I can't afford them (divorces cost a lot .

It seems pretty clear that the Woodriver has come out with a reasonably priced alternative that is a heck of a lot better than the Buck Bros. block plane I have (ugh!) and the Groz # 4 I bought (from Woodcrafft) and returned after I laid a straight edge across the sole and could see daylight in the middle.

Since I can "afford" (see line 2 above) one or more Woodriver planes, that is the path I chose.

Yes, I wish it were made in the USA but, it isn't (and Canada isn't the USA either, last I checked, and therefore doesn't help our economy).

Thanks for the review bobdurnell.

Cheers


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## jose

Though I'm new to LJs, I have to comment here on a reality of the 21st century. I am in the international trade business and can tell you that any consumer who thinks they can get away from China is mistaken; it is this nation's No. 1 trading partner. It is not a question of whether you agree or disagree, it is a fact that the US manufactures very little-I tell people there is a big difference in manufactured in America and assembled in America. I have all old Stanley planes and that is a decision based on economics. I've read all about LN and LV tools and the business models of those companies. There is a very good chance some element in those tools: the raw bronze or other raw metal, the screws/fittings, an element of the japanning formula, the packaging, the tools used to make these planes, etc., etc., came from China. I do respect those who do their best to keep their money in the nation, but is a near impossibility these days.


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## ronin

To Bobdurnell and all the skeptics.
Thanks for your reviews. I'm new to this forum but I think I have to add something and I think the other people may find it interesting.
I am new to using hand planes, after watching my father using hand tools when I grew up(50s), I saw how much he was sweating when he was using these tools, so I promised myself when I grow up and if I'll do what he did I'll try to work easier than he did, so all my tools are powered or cordless but the memeory of using my fathers hand tools when I was a kid stayed with me and I always kinda wanted to try a hand plane here and there and at Woodshows and exibits, it fascinated me and I saw and tried some LN and LV tools which just left me drooling for one, the quality and the performance of these tools are absolutely remarkable but so is the PRICE!
Over the years I accumulated some old Stanleys #4 a low angle block plane a #4 and #5 Buck Bros and a new Stanley #4 made in England, they are all crapy tools with cheap irons that will not hold the edge for long, I also may add that the lack of sharpening skills that I had did contribute to the fact that I wasn't using the planes full potential. Last year I purchased a LV 2" iron and the video set of David Charlesworth Part 1 & 2 of Plane Sharpening, actually I have four of his videos, LN sales them, they are a good investment for any body like myself who didn't know what to do, use or sharpen a blade for a plane.
To day I may add, after intense learning from those videos I can say that almost any plane can be brought to cut pretty good after some fine tuning and Elbow Grease.
This Year I saw in the Woodworking magazine the little story about the WR planes and being intrigued by their looks and afordable prices, I decided for a #5 Jack plane. It came in a box like Bob described except someone droped it on it's corner in the warehouse, it didn't damage the plane, the plane was in tact in a plastic bag soaked in mineral oil. I disassembled it and wiped the oil off and inspected it after I assembeled it back.
It looks just like the LN on the out side. The bed and the sides are pretty well polished, the inside a little less but all the parts are functioning right. After sharpening the blade to PERFECTION, I thought to give it a try, what can I say? IT ZINNNNGZ! I can achive .001 thicknes shavings with it from hard maple, cherry, birch and pine with no problems. By the way, the LV blade works in it very nice also and the WR blades are thicker than the LV and are hardened and hold a good edge for long time.
I have nothing but good things to say for it, as a matter of satisfaction I ordered a #4 and it is just as good.
Right now I'm holding my fingers crossed for the hope I wished to the arrival "if ever" for a #7 or #8, I just can't see myself shell out $475 for a LN and I mean no disrepect to these fine planes, there is a lot of fine work invested in any LN, I wish I win the lottery so I can buy the whole line, but until then the Wood River will do for me.
Ronin.


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## ronin

To Bobdurnell and all the skeptics.
Thanks for your reviews. I'm new to this forum but I think I have to add something and I think the other people may find it interesting.
I am new to using hand planes, after watching my father using hand tools when I grew up(50s), i saw how much he was sweating when he was using these tools, so I promised myself when I grow up and if I'll do what he did I'll try to work easier than he did, so all my tools are powered or cordless but the memeory of using my fathers hand tools when I was a kid stayed with me and I always kinda wanted to try a hand plane here and there and at Woodshows and exibits, it fascinated me and I saw and tried some LN and LV tools which just left me drooling for one, the quality and the performance of these tools are absolutely remarkable but so is the PRICE!
Over the years I accumulated some old Stanleys #4 a low angle block plane a #4 and #5 Buck Bros and a new Stanley #4 made in England, they are all crapy tools with cheap irons that will not hold the edge for long, I also may add that the lack of sharpening skills that I had did contribute to the fact that I wasn't using the planes full potential. Last year I purchased a LV 2" iron and the video set of David Charlesworth Part 1 & 2 of Plane Sharpening, actually I have four of his videos, LN sales them, they are a good investment for any body like myself who didn't know what to do, use or sharpen a blade for a plane.
To day I may add, after intense learning from those videos I can say that almost any plane can be brought to cut pretty good after some fine tuning and Elbow Grease.
This Year I saw in the Woodworking magazine the little story about the WR planes and being intrigued by their looks and afordable prices, I decided for a #5 Jack plane. It came in a box like Bob described except someone droped it on it's corner in the warehouse, it didn't damage the plane, the plane was in tact in a plastic bag soaked in mineral oil. I disassembled it and wiped the oil off and inspected it after I assembeled it back.
It looks just like the LN on the out side. The bed and the sides are pretty well polished, the inside a little less but all the parts are functioning right. After sharpening the blade to PERFECTION, I thought to give it a try, what can I say? IT ZINNNNGZ! I can achive .001 thicknes shavings with it from hard maple, cherry, birch and pine with no problems. By the way, the LV blade works in it very nice also and the WR blades are thicker than the LV and are hardened and hold a good edge for long time.
I have nothing but good things to say for it, as a matter of satisfaction I ordered a #4 and it is just as good.
Right now I'm holding my fingers crossed for the hope I wished to the arrival "if ever" for a #7 or #8, I just can't see myself shell out $475 for a LN and I mean no disrepect to these fine planes, there is a lot of fine work invested in any LN, I wish I win the lottery so I can buy the whole line, but until then the Wood River will do for me.
Ronin.


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## a1Jim

Wow thanks for the review. This was like asking who's the best president or whats the best religion. Kinda overwhelming and scary.


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## ronin

Thanks a1Jim
Hope that you don't have a weak heart and didn't scare you much but, coming from you sounds like a real complement, I checked you out and I was impressed.
I think you should try one of these planes, you may be also pleasently shocked after you try it out.
I have an inside source that a new shipment is coming on 6/2/09 so if you order soon you may be able to share your experience too.
I have to admit that I don't work for the company nor get any commisison for a good word, but I have to say that the people there are very curteous, my second order, the #4 got lost in the shipment, I called them and in a few days I received my #4.
Pictures will follow soon.
Ronin


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## bobdurnell

ronin - That was a very good post. It has been 91 days since I bought my WR planes and there have been two magazine articles about them also. One was in the Woodcraft magazine and the other in Popular Woodworking by Christoper Schwartz who very meticulously compares the no. 4 planes in way more depth that an old woodshop teacher and woodworker from the age of 7 could possibly deal with. I have also bought a no.3 RW and tuned it up and it works great. I get that ZINNNNGZ too! Isn't that what its all about? Don't know about you but when I'm bored and don't want to watch reruns of The New Yankee Workshop I'll go out to the garage (shop) and make those little curly things with all my planes just to see if they are still adjusted correctly and watch Nick the shop dog sniff them.


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## bobdurnell

Great video, loved it. Usually I watch the first 10 seconds of a video and then click off, but not with yours. I will watch the others or to use a catch phrase I'll be back.


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## bobdurnell

Please disregard the previous post it was intended to be for the Ugly Betsy Box video oops!


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## tbreland

Wow…that video may have just bought me some planes.


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## Jon_Banquer

"You folks have GOT to watch this!

"The Schwartz" hits several planes, including a new Wood River, with a hammer!

Watch!

-- Please help keep Lumberjocks an enjoyable escape by refusing to participate in political discussions. Simply choose to ignore the thread…"

I did. Legit and very helpful. Personally a plane is an item I'd rather pay double for because of L-N's far better tech support and the better adjuster


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## ronin

The Schwartz, no disrespect to his ability and his talent as a cabinet maker/carpenter, but to test a hand plane with a hammer is the most *moronic* test I ever watched! That prooves absolutely nothing just the strenght of the metal. I wonder why he didn't try to break a Bronze made LN, would that show that his theory is wrong?
After learning how to "Tuneup" my plane and sharpen a blade real well, I brought all my planes to work well, even the cheapest one (Buck Bross, #4=$25.00, #5=$29.99) and some others, to be able to take a .001" wood shaving and this without any big effort, as long as you have a good flat sole and a good sharp blade, you can accomplish just about anything that the big bucks LN will do, granted, maybe with a little more effort and less style, but a hell of a lot cheaper!
It is true that I drooll every time I see a LN plane, but that's the same with a Rolls Roys, both will take you the same distance, but for now, my good ol' Merc. GM will do just fine.
If you have the money buy the best tool, if you not handy, the best tool will not help you!


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## Lochlainn1066

I can't see buying a new hand tool, especially one with as much potential longevity as a metal hand plane, without buying the best. And since they have good longevity, classic planes of every variety are still available and cheap. You just have to be willing to substitute time for money. Hobbyists can, pros sometimes can't. Since I have more time than money, I almost always go for vintage tools, both power and hand.

And making your own tools is a great way to get what you want. Sometimes it's the only way!

I won't tell anybody how to spend their money, my choices are different than anybody else's. Just make sure you are making an informed decision and buy from someone reputable with a return policy.

Hitting a plane on an anvil was for demonstrating ductile vs "gray" cast iron. Ductile iron planes survive being dropped on concrete floors better, which is why vintage planes often have chips and cracks.

It also sounds like Wood River has increased in quality from when they were first introduced. Then the reviews seemed to be mostly negative, now more people are starting to like them. Same for the new Stanleys, too.


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## BerBer5985

I gotta say that the quality of goods that come out of canada are top notch though. We sell flooring for a living and the wood products that come from Canada are the absolute best money can buy. I can't say that about any wood that comes out of China. But when it comes to electronics, China can't be matched. Think Nintendo, Playstation, etc. They make some good electronic stuff these days. It seems like the Chinese are finally getting better at tooling because it some of the handtools they've been producing at harbor freight, they seem decently nice for 1/3 the cost. I saw a set of chisels there that I almost bought to use for BS work because they were $5 for a set and they looked pretty well made for the price so we'll see, but my experience is that there quality control and attention to detail in no way compares to canadian made products.


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## ronin

Time showed that Wood River planes are good planes, the blades hold pretty well the edge (A-2) steel like the high price planes on the market, plus they are thicker so they're more stable than thin blades.
In my humble opinion, if I had to start all over and buy a new set , (nothing beats the low angle Bevel-Up Veritas planes by Lee Valley, the smoothest cut, easy to set-up and adjust,) I'd start with the #5 L/A Jack, it's an all around plane, I'd add a 50 degree spare blade for hard woods (even that I had no difficulty to cut with the original 25 degree in any hard wood) second the L/A block plane, this is a fantastic tool, then I'll go for the Bevel-Up Jointer and for last get the Bevel-Up Smoother plane. The quality of this planes and all Veritas tools are A1 or 5 stars, you can't go wrong with any of them.


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## woodworksbyjohn

Buy American PERIOD. Think of the pride L-N workers feel in their work. Our country needs workers and makers, not slackers and takers! If you make one of a kind pieces do you like potential clients going to Ikea instead of you? Okay, only rant of the year,


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