# What the #&!!



## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

It never occurred to me the large difference between the table saw miter slots and the blade, brand to brand etc. Inches. When I swapped my Ridgid contractor for my Harvey, I only had to tweak my Osborn miter gauge.

So, picked up a Delta tenon jig. ( used, fair price) First, it wobbled. Easy fix, the bottom plate was not flat, so I honed it to sit without wobble. Could have been bad machining, could have been dropped so not pointing any fingers. While I was there, de-burred the edges as they could cut you.

Set it down to reset it to square. WHAT! The closest it gets in 1 3/8 from the blade! I could use it backwards in the right slot, but it is obviously made for the left slot. I would never have guessed they would differ more than a quarter inch or so. Clearly Delta did not as they would have provided a series of holes for the miter bar to attach.

Question: Does the Grizzly sloppy clone address this? Looking at the catalogs, they do not say anything about being machine specific. Looking at the WoodRiver pictures, they show their miter bar in different positions in different pictures.

So, I will drill the baseplate and move the bar. It's is Monday.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

I have the Grizzly, an older model. Same complaint. It's a clone.


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## Knockonit (Nov 5, 2017)

delta made for delta saws, me thinks,


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Yes, all clones, or rather the same took with different paint out of the same factory. Delta, Grizzle, WoodRiver, etc. 
Point, none of the descriptions say "fits models…"


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## LeeRoyMan (Feb 23, 2019)

My Delta tenon jig. only comes to an 1 1/8 from the blade in my Delta saw.
I have ran it backwards many a time.

There are also holes in the faceplate, if you wanted to make a spacer for it you could.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Not sure which Delta jig you have, but if it's the one I had (34-182) you could remove the upper plate (the sliding part) and move it one way or the other….to the right in my case. I'm not sure it's 1 3/8", but it's there just for left til saws.


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

You buy apple you gotta have apple accessories. Crapsman is notorious for their undersized miter slot, ~0.740" vs 0.750" on everyone else.

Its a *Delta* accessory, why would you expect it to fit on any other brand?

Someone makes a generic one out of lexan for 1/2 the price.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

I understand the clones have multiple sets of holes. ( Grizzly, Woodcraft etc) 
I bought mine used for a very fair price. I wanted the mass of the iron version. I made many a wood one.

So, I drilled two new holes for the guide bar. 
Slightly elongated the lock knob slot
Honed the baseplate flat
De-bured all the rough edges
Hole to access the bolt into the rod through the guide bar
It now sits flat, no rock. I set the stop screw for a hair away. I have not fine tuned it for square yet. That is just the bolts into the round bar. May be a pain. 
Guide bar has about .0025" play. A bit more than I want so I guess part of fine tuning will be to dimple the bar to get closer to .001. 
Probably will put some 220 PSA on the face so a little less clamp pressure not to mar stock. ( Of course, a soft wood block with a magnet in it to pad the clamp) 
Won't bother with a new index marker. I would never use it anyway.

I notice the newest versions moved the push handles so keep more pressure on the slot. Smart.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

TVR, Your tenon jig looks like the same one I have, My Unisaw measures 4-1/4 from the left slot to the blade, 5-1/2" for the right. I have used it on both sides when required.
You may be able to make an offset base with a thin piece of aluminum that screws to your jigs miter bar holes and relocate the miter bar outboard.

It's a handy tool, somewhat tricky to dial in for perfect 90's with the crude adjustment points but the micro-adjust is awesome for getting those "just-right" tenon fits.


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## Peteybadboy (Jan 23, 2013)

LeeRoy

+1 on backwards


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Why put up with backwards? Only took a couple hours to fix it up totally. I can see how to make micro adjustments to both tilt adjustments.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

> Why put up with backwards?
> - tvrgeek


Sometimes you need to tenon a wider part or for doing shoulders (a wide piece) that need the same precision.
In a case like this, you are already set by keeping it on the left 8^)

It seems kinda awkward, but works well.


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## Foghorn (Jan 30, 2020)

I'm still not quite sure what I'm seeing. I have a General International clone that came with my saw. It's adjustable right up to the blade. I assumed it was also a Delta clone but not sure. Am I missing something?


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## LeeRoyMan (Feb 23, 2019)

> Why put up with backwards? Only took a couple hours to fix it up totally. I can see how to make micro adjustments to both tilt adjustments.
> 
> - tvrgeek


I don't feel like I was putting up with anything. Works perfectly fine in either slot, IMO


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## CWWoodworking (Nov 28, 2017)

> My Delta tenon jig. only comes to an 1 1/8 from the blade in my Delta saw.
> I have ran it backwards many a time.
> 
> There are also holes in the faceplate, if you wanted to make a spacer for it you could.
> ...


If you run it backwards, does it make a mortise?


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

My Grizzly gave me all the adjustment I needed to use it on my Unisaw, for what that's worth.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Clearly some saws have the miter slot closer to the blade that others. That is what I said in post one. I had never thought of that and neither did Delta.

Yes, the General looks identical to the Delta.

It took far longer to lap the base flat than to drill two holes to move the bar over. I suspect it will take even longer to get it square to the table.. Very poor design as alignment is just the slop in the holes for the rod and the bar.

I think I would have threaded the base and just used one counter-sink screw and one in a slot for the bar for fine adjustment. Maybe even an eccentric washer in the second hole. The bar should have used flat head screws for self alignment. I wonder if they made any improvements to the current version?


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## Woodbum (Jan 3, 2010)

Change table saws and you quite often need to change or recalibrate all of your accessories due to the difference mentioned by the OP. That means sleds, miter gauges etc. A huge PITA, but to me, a small price to pay for a decent upgrade. I have had to modify my Delta Tenoning Jig too, but now it works fine and all is well. When you replace the arbor bearings on your table saw, be very aware and precise on your blade location in the final steps. If it isn't EXACTLY where it was before, you will be back to the recalibrating and modifying your accessories again. I learned this when replacing the bearings on my Grizzly 1023. But as I said before, now all is well, and chalked up to one of life's myriad of learning experiences. It all usually shakes out to the good side in the end. Work Safely, Have Fun and Good Luck!


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

How about this one: 2 table saws, same brand. One is L tilt, 3HP, one is R tilt, 1 3/4HP.

Miter slot widths are not the same.

Miter slot is locations are not the same

So - I need separate miter gauges and sleds for each one. Nice, huh??


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

I have the same problem switching from my table saw to my bandsaw, or from my Grizzly bandsaw to the Powermatic.

The miter guides of the Delta table saw and the Powermatic or Grizzly bandsaw are such that I can swap miters back and forth, but the distance between the blade and miter slot makes using things like the log jib for cutting rounds interesting. On the Grizzly, the sled just clears the blade. The Powermatic clears it by at least an inch more.

Take any of those over to something not of the New World and it may not be do-able at all.

A bazillion years in and you'd think they'd find common ground.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

When I was a kid and into dumpster diving for old bicycles to fix up, I always hated to pull out a Schwinn. I remember mentioning to the local bike shop guy when I was looking to buy a Schwinn tire since none of my 1000 other "normal" tires would fit. "It sucks that Schwinns can't use others parts". He replied " the problem is that others can't use Schwinn parts"


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

"A bazillion years in and you'd think they'd find common ground."

Bingo!


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Add to that complication the Walmart versions. A buddy, who used to repair bikes, said that version of major brand bikes were problematic, because the had to cheap them down for the "price cuts."



> When I was a kid and into dumpster diving for old bicycles to fix up, I always hated to pull out a Schwinn. I remember mentioning to the local bike shop guy when I was looking to buy a Schwinn tire since none of my 1000 other "normal" tires would fit. "It sucks that Schwinns can t use others parts". He replied " the problem is that others can t use Schwinn parts"
> 
> - splintergroup


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## HerringImpaired (Mar 13, 2019)

I have the same Jig, and it has two sets of mounting holes for the base to attach to the bar. Just a matter of moving to those outbound mounting holes to work on my PM66. Good thing, running the jig backwards in the opposite slot would be futile, they are both about 5.5" from the blade.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

*Foggy*, 'cept for the branding paint, mine looks exactly the same as yours right down to the rust spots and me being quite a few swim strokes away in Australia, I can only assume they both came out of *张伟*'s (*Mr. Zhang Wei*) one rickshaw garage.

I had no issues with mine.


> ... picked up a Delta tenon jig. ( used, *fair* price)...
> 
> ... Only took a *couple hours to fix* it up totally…
> - tvrgeek


Sorry to say *tvr'*, that *fair* price may have been a tad *dark*.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Folks, the entire point of this thread was that it had not occurred to me the wide variance in TS top design. It took just a little work to modify and tune up the Delta jig to work perfectly.

Additional skills? I hope fellow woodworkers can measure and mark. I am pretty sure drilling a couple of holes is not past any bodies skills. If you can flatten the back of a chisel or iron, you can flatten the jig. Now, it may take a little more creativity to make a micro adjustment for square, as that is redesigning the machine. They were probably assembled in a manufacturing jig and would have come square. Much cheaper to built that to build in an adjustment and them have an adjustment process.

And yes, the price I paid was fair.

I too am sure all of these came from the same foundry and same OEM. These are HUGE companies, not little sheds. It matters not.


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## Foghorn (Jan 30, 2020)

> *Foggy*, cept for the branding paint, mine looks exactly the same as yours right down to the rust spots and me being quite a few swim strokes away in Australia, I can only assume they both came out of *张伟* s (*Mr. Zhang Wei*) one rickshaw garage.
> 
> I had no issues with mine.
> 
> - LittleBlackDuck


If you look a little closer, you'll see that it's sawdust from exceptionally frequent use and not rust…ahem!


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> If you look a little closer, you ll see that it s sawdust from exceptionally frequent use and not rust…ahem!
> 
> - Foghorn


Then yours is *nothing* like mine… yours must have been big garage made and you got the good one out of the batch. I probably paid a few shekels more for the rust.


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## Foghorn (Jan 30, 2020)

> If you look a little closer, you ll see that it s sawdust from exceptionally frequent use and not rust…ahem!
> 
> - Foghorn
> 
> ...


Collect enough iron oxide and you could be rich in some circles!


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> Collect enough iron oxide and you could be rich in some *circles*!
> - Foghorn


Will the rim of,








be considered a *circle*?


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## Foghorn (Jan 30, 2020)

That's impressive but you need to up your game!


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> That s impressive but you need to up your game!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Half way there… going to start work on puncturing my tyre.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Not sure what you meant. Was it that you didn't expect us to comment back? Was it that you did not expect the rabbit trail responses? Was it that you did not expect us to one up you on how good/bad the situation is with our saws and jigs? Was it. . . .?



> Folks, the entire point of this thread was that it had not occurred to me the wide variance in TS top design. It took just a little work to modify and tune up the Delta jig to work perfectly.
> 
> - tvrgeek


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

OK, final tweaks to get it dead square. Something Delta provided no instructions or adjustments.

I did not have quite enough "slop" in either set of holes to get the face of the jig parallel with the blade moving the guide bar or miter bar. So, I picked one of the bar slots and slightly elongated it. As the casting is very rough, I use a die grinder to level out where the bolt head sits. Really, you should have an end mill for this but I don't have one. Grind, measure, grind, hope…

Anyway, using a bit of paper to eliminate all miter bar slop, trial and error I was able to get the face within .0015 end to end square with the table. My blade is around .001 to square. I figure that is good enough. Better I think would need some way to adjust while assembled rather than measure, take part, loosen, tap, tighten and reassemble. It could be a couple more holes drilled into the top casting woudl allow access to the miter bar and it could be used. Makes no difference in the end result.

The slot for the lock knob is just long enough by a hair to remove the top plate. Then the setscrew comes in to prevent the jig from hitting the blade. Just as it should be.

All I need now is my dust collector so I can go back to making sawdust.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

AMATURES! Guess you have not had a British car. They usually sell listed as "rust free" That means they don't charge extra for all the rust.



> That s impressive but you need to up your game!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> *AMATURES*! Guess you have not had a British car. They usually sell listed as "rust free" That means they don t charge extra for all the rust.
> - tvrgeek


I humbly bow to the *PRO*!

+1


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