# ITS NOT ABOUT WOODWORKING ANYMORE



## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

edited by me…grizzman.


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## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

Bob,
I guess us "old timers" are the only ones who understand the change. 
Seems most folks come and go within a year or so. They really don't have an investment in this site. Maybe the owners of LumberJocks understand this and feel the "noobs" won't really care about the changes.
I think once the site went from family owned to corporate owned, these type of changes were inevitable.


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

yea lew you're right, its very sad for me, this place has been an important place because of the many great people i have become friends with, a big investment of my time…but i've said all i'm going to say, im sure this is how its going to be, and i shall now need to find a new home…


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## JADobson (Aug 14, 2012)

I think the moderators should take careful note of this post and remember that without the input of us members they have nothing. We give them all their content for free. The site's owners contribute nothing but infrastructure.


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

Grizz,

I personally plan to just quietly go away.

I'm considering deleting my few projects and workshop, since projets and workshops remain editable forever.

Otherwise, they will continue to use all your projects for advertisement.

*I think with the new European law, European users will have the right to force the site to delete every post they ever made from the site.* This might also apply to any posts made by people living anywhere while the site was under European ownership and control - which it was until recently.

-Paul


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Grizz, I noticed these ads this week and I agree that they go to far when they put advertising in our posts. The ads on the right sides and bottom don't bother me that much. However, I sure don't want to see you go and I hope that you will stay. You mean a lot to a lot of people here including me so I hope that you will stick around here. We don't want to see you go.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

I guess I'll be the odd man out, and say that I don't think the ads are that bad. I don't have things popping up, and they don't detract from the content I'm seeing. Yeah, there's some ad space at the top, and some on the side. A word might be highlighted in blue, but if I don't hold the mouse over it, it doesn't do anything.

As for the moderators providing nothing but infrastructure, I disagree. Having been a moderator on another motorcycling forum, there's more behind the scenes that goes on to making things run. It's not a "set it and forget it" job. How many times has this site been down and out? Not many in the 3 or so years I've been a member.

Regarding "IT WAS NEVER LIKE THIS, AND ITS NOT NEEDED TO PAY THEIR BILLS, THEY MAKE PLENTY OF MONEY ALREADY"...do you have data to back that up? Do you know the costs associated with maintaining a forum? How much does the server space cost? What about software upgrades? Increasing bandwidth? Data backup? I don't think anybody is riding high on the cash hog here. And what if someone is making some money? They're doing work. While using this forum may be a fun hobby, maintaining it is work.

While it would be great to have a site with absolutely no ads, you're expecting something for nothing, or you're expecting someone to take on all the responsibility of doing the work and not get paid for it. The internet is full of ads, and by comparison, this site is light on the ads.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

Whether anyone wants to admit it, Martin loved woodworking, but he started the site with the idea of making money. When available, he chose to sell it (probably for a decent profit). His new website is also designed to make him money. To the participants, it is and has always been about woodworking. To the owners present and past, it was and always will be about making money. That is usually the reason for any business.


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

I am not trying to change anyone's opinion, but I don't get it. I see the ad links, but its just blue text. I learned really quick not put move my cursor over that.

Is just the principle?

Or do other browsers make this more of a hindrance?


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

I think it has a LOT to do with what kind of ad blocker you have. 
I am getting popups but no sidebar ads on my iphone. 
On the computer, running chrome with ad blocker, I get neither.


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## ducky911 (Oct 6, 2010)

It is more than ads for me. When I look at someones project comments random words are blue and it takes me to odd ads to sell me things like paper towels.

No other site is doing this

If this is here to stay I am gone.

sawmill site does not do this

Bob


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Changed my mind on this post.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I can see a problem about someone else putting links in your post. Even though they are slightly different from a regular link they can discourage some people from clicking on links that the poster puts in the post thinking that they are an advertisement. Of course the site should make money and ads are everywhere on the internet. The ads to the right and to the bottom are not a big problem and there's plenty of room for ads without resorting to putting ads in the posts. I can live with them but I just would prefer they didn't put ads inside the posts.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

Lots of other sites do this. Like Fox news, CNN and ESPN. The sites that are not doing it simply haven't figured out how to make money at it.


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## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

Does the blue text do anything if you don't leave the cursor over it? I don't pay attention to the blue text and I get no adds coming up over them. Kind of like going to the doctor and saying "It hurts when I do this."


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Well there's one good thing about it - if you don't want the ad to popup you don't have to hover over it. At least that is a comfort.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

Grizz
You cant flick through your buddies project while on the phone with the music in the background
without the risk of some pop up blaring in the background its nuts

Jamie


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

One other observation - the ad links have a double underline. An intentional link has a single underline.

I have no trouble avoiding them.


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## longgone (May 5, 2009)

Bob…I do not see the ads because of the ad blocking software I use. I *do remember how annoying it was before I downloaded the ad block software* The ads are obviously now more prevalent and invasive. It is so easy to see the difference when you use two different browsers…one with ad block software and one without…WOW what a difference.!!!

The ad block software is free and easily installed. I cannot imagine why anyone would not use it unless they enjoy seeing the clutter of the ads. I compare it to the recorder we have on the cable TV. Carol and I record every program we have any intention of watching because rerecording it gives us the ability to quickly fast forward past the advertisements. The ad block software makes it much nicer in that no fast forward is necessary.


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## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

I know the ad problem is real but I don't get how two members using the same chrome/adblock ,one sees all these ads,pop ups,links,blue texts,and one like me doesn't even see a single one,.the left of my screen is the name/pictures of the posters,the right is just a blank 3" space .

I'm not computer savvy but if seeing ads is so random,then( logically) a virus or malware or something has to be causing it.


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

You can rest assured, the ads are intentional. Here is the announcement post .


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## ducky911 (Oct 6, 2010)

I need to try an ad blocker.

Any recommendations ?

Thanks

these ads are really bugging me


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

I always keep my computer muted unless there is something in particular I want to listen to. That kills the noxious *audio* ads. The moving/video ads take enormous amounts of bandwidth. I would guess that the actual content I want to see amounts to less than 25% of the bandwidth of ads that are being sent to me. Because of the volume of data associated with ads, the performance of the web site has really declined so that it's painfully slow.

I think the lesson in all this is that unless we create a pay-to-play web site, we're always going to be seeing ads. The web site owners are not operating a charity. On the other hand, the value of this web site still belongs to those who post interesting content. *Again, the new European law will force them to allow any European user to delete everything they have ever posted - including copies or quotes of posts. The owners might as well get busy figuring out how to do that before the requests start coming in.*

-Paul


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

my browser is google chrome, and i have an apple computer, i downloaded the ADBLOCK PLUS and i do not see one single add and no pop ups now, i downloaded it yesterday, up until then i saw the adds and pop ups everywhere…i love the new software…BUT FOLKS, all of this is also principle..ads on the sides and such is to me there business, but when they change my personal posts and put ads in them, they have crossed the line…AND I WILL SAY AGAIN, even though we have an ad blocker, many people don't, and they see all of this junk…to me its too much, you can rationalize this all you want for your own reasons, and thats great, but for me they have gone to far, and the woodworking site that this use to be is being changed in a big way…im done, ive said all im going to say,


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

There is a "new" LJ's


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## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)

There's ANOTHER LJs Don? WHere?


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## cajunpen (Apr 9, 2007)

I feel deprived - I don't see any of the "ads" in any of the above posts. I have noticed a very few in other posts, but I just ignore them. Hang in there with us Bob, I'd hate to see you leave - you are a good friend.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

I guess I'm lucky that I live in Norway because I don't get anything like you guys are talking about. I see the ads surrounding, but no highlighted text that moving your cursor over brings up a popup add or anything like that. I have to admit that getting away from all the advertising hoopla is one of things I don't miss from the U.S. Signs and advertising is extremely low key here and it is a real benefit. Please don't think I'm anti business in any way because of that.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Just this morning, we had two uninvited visits to our house. The first was a guy trying to sell us text books for our children. The second was a group attempting to spread their religious beliefs.

I am blaming LJs for both of these. This is really getting out of hand!


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## ducky911 (Oct 6, 2010)

ad blocker plus up and running..


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

Chuck - that's funny!


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

I am very pleased to announce that the double unlined Kontera links will now only be shown to guests.

They will no longer be displayed for members who are signed in to the community.

Thank you for your patience while they worked out a balance for us.


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

THANK YOU VERY MUCH CRICKET


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

This community has come to mean a lot to me.


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

That's pretty good service Cricket!

(this place *IS* pretty cool)


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Grizz, The only ads I see are in the margins and never in the post/comments. If yer talkin about those blue words, just don't click on em. I'm so computer challenged that I don't even know if I have any of that ad blocker stuff on mine.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I'm not seeing any of this here in WA.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

" ITS NOT NEEDED TO PAY THEIR BILLS, THEY MAKE PLENTY OF MONEY ALREADY"

Well that pretty un-American and anti capitalistic. Kind of sounds like Obama's spread the wealth program. You know, take it from them and give it to me.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Thanks, Cricket. That will still leave ya'll a lot of room for advertising on the sides and at the bottom. I know that the site has to make money and it should make money. Overall ya'll are doing a real good job.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## abie (Jan 28, 2008)

Interesting?


> Just saw same complaints and response from "Cricket " on Router Forums…
> Suppose same people own both sites


?


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## abie (Jan 28, 2008)

Justdid a search
escalade media ESCALATE MEDIA LP OVERVIEW & CORPORATE ORGANIZATION
Basic Information

Company Tags: PE Backed
Year Founded: 2004
Fiscal Year End: 12/31
1YR Revenue Growth Rate: View %
3YR Revenue Growth Rate (CAGR): View %
1YR Employee Growth Rate: View %
3YR Employee Growth Rate (CAGR): View %
City: Houston
State/Province: Texas
Country: United States
Phone: View
Websites: www.afullcup.com
www.escalatemedia.com
Corporate Organization

Parent Companies: 
View
Affiliate Companies: 
Haven Home Media
Subsidiaries: 
Escalate Network
The Building Network LLC
Brands: 
AFullCup.com
CellPhoneSignal
CleaningTalk.com
ContractorTalk.com
CraftForum
DiaperSwappers.com
DIYChatroom
DrywallTalk.com
ElectricianTalk.com
Free Coupon Alerts
GardenTenders
HomeRefurbers
LumberJocks
PinStack.com
PlantSwap.net
PlumbingZone.com
RoofingTalk.com
SprintUsers.com
SundayCoupon.com
ThatFreebieSite.com
The V7 Network
TotallyHer.com
WoodworkingTalk.com
Founders: 
David Adams
Lee Dodd
Nathan Wingate


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## summerfi (Oct 12, 2013)

http://www.routerforums.com/routerforums-com-news-feedback/46927-upcoming-changes-routerforums.html

http://homerefurbers.com/topics/926

http://www.diychatroom.com/f36/diychatroom-com-changes-202316/


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

I'm not sure I understand the concern about which communities are owned by Escalate Media. It's certainly no big secret. If you read my story on my blog here, I mention that I am a community manager for them. http://lumberjocks.com/CricketWalker/blog/40481

For what it's worth, that company information and list is outdated.

Why don't we just get back to enjoying the site and sharing great projects? (smiles)


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## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

I also don't understand the concern. Pretty much everything's a business. Suddenly finding out that LumberJocks' is owned by a parent company that serves other special-interest forums doesn't really change anything. While it would be noble if somebody was managing this forum out of pocket and on their own spare time, that's far from realistic. Not that it's the same as running a forum, but I write software for a living, and the last thing I want to do on my spare time is write more software for free.

LumberJocks is going to continue on, just as it was, and ever shall be, a forum without end. And, also without blue double-underlined ad links.


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## Roz (Jan 13, 2008)

I am a long time user and do not particularly like the adds. I don't mind them so long as they are not over bearing. As for ownership and rights, when the site no longer serves my purposes I'll go elsewhere. There are other woodworking sites.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

A bit late to this thread, I see Bob has edited the OP, So I'm guessing Grizz (Bob) is still with us? it seems as though things have been ironed out? I'd sure hate to see this site fail, it was this site and folks like Bob that got me to where I am today and I own thanks for it all.

As for as what Monte stated in regards to Martin's new site, Horizontal Mike had shared that link to me but when I went to it, my Trend Virus protection put a stop to it, said the site was dangerous and was deemed an unsafe site, I listen to my virus protection no matter what, I'm not taking any chances.


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