# How rough a grit of paper can I leave a shop bench when using oil/poly/ms blend



## MrWolfe (Jan 23, 2018)

I am not really expecting a huge discussion here but I am looking for advice.
I am building a portable bench with a moxon vise top that I can rough-hew tree slices into bowls and platters with an adze. I will be using an adze, an ax and a couple of drawknives, chisels and gouges on it.

I am just about finished except for the actual finish. I want to use tung oil, boiled linseed oil and oil based poly for the finish. I've sanded it with an r.o.s. but I've only used 60 grit so far. I want the oil blend to really soak in and penetrate the wood so it is hardened. That is the idea at least.

This will be a piece of shop furniture that will see a lot of action and possibly some abuse so I am not trying to make it into fine furniture with a flawless finish. Anyone ever just rough sanded a piece and used this oil blend? What do you think the roughest grit of paper I can stop with? I am thinking 100 or 120. Should I sand the 3rd coat after it dries with finer grits?

Just curious if anyone has tried this and what the results have been.
Jon


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## MPython (Nov 30, 2018)

This is a personal preference issue. Some people like a rough surface on their benches. I've known woodworkers who final-planed their bench tops with a toothing plane to leave a lightly corrugated surface. That's not my cup. of tea. I prefer a smooth surface and finished my bench top with a smoothing plane and 4 or 5 coats of tung oil. All bench tops get beat up over time and need to be resurfaced. I'm about ready to resurface mine. I'll flatten it again with a jointer plane and finish-plane it with a smoother and apply several coats of tung oil, just as I did when I built it. The point is that finishing a bench top is not a forever thing. Finish yours rough. If you don't like it, plane it off and try something else.


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

+1 Tons of different personal preferences on bench top finish.

I don't like poly on my hand tool bench, makes surface too slick. Too slick and boards slide away from you as you clamp them. Prefer to use oil/beeswax blend like 'Original Wood Finish ' from Tried and True, or make your own. The wax makes the bench just sticky enough to keep wood from sliding around to easily.

Last time I refinished my bench top, sanded with 100 grit after planing flat/smooth. Applied oil/wax blend and rubbed it into wood with 00 plastic buffing pad until it wouldn't soak in any more. After 1-2 hours, return and use clean rag to buff off excess oil (or it will turn to gummy residue). Fresh wood, use 2 coats. Re-coat only needed one. If want rougher surface, use green colored 0 grade pad.

Best Luck.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Wasn't it Schwarz that used a toothed blade on this workbench, try that, report back.


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## DavePolaschek (Oct 21, 2016)

I have one workbench that was finished with poly. Don't like it much, but I use it a lot. The spots where I've almost worn through the poly are nicer to use for woodworking than the spots that still have full coverage.

When I did my low workbench I planed it with my jack plane. It was smooth-ish, but equivalent to no more than 100 grit, I'd guess. Finished that with just linseed oil, dumping it on and letting the bench (which was spalted elm) drink as much as it wanted. The work surface is fine after a couple years of hard use, but once we get moved next month, it will be my primary bench until the new shop is built, so it'll probably get beat up more. I'll plane it flat again and give it another couple coats of linseed oil early next year, and once it cures it'll be good for a few more years.

I'd say you've probably sanded enough already, but if you finish it and don't like the results, you can always sand or plane off the surface and try again.

Note that I also do a lot of assembly on my five board bench which was not sanded at all and finished with primer and latex paint. I clamp boards down to it and use the combination plane to put in grooves all the time. I sometimes get a little paint transfer off the bench, but I generally don't worry about that, since that's on the outside of a box, which I will plane smooth later. It's not the greatest work surface, but it works and I don't feel bad running a drywall screw or two into it if I need an additional planing stop.


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## MrWolfe (Jan 23, 2018)

Wow…
Thanks for all the replies. I have a few more options that I was originally thinking. I may do a sample piece with the toothed planed surface but I already have all my dog holes bored out and I'm not sure that will work without a lot of tear out. I like the oil/wax idea too but its been 100 plus degrees this last week here and I'm wondering if that will be durable for what I want to do, especially with the heat.

I have started looking for oil/wax recipes though. I want to make some just to have on hand for other projects.
It looks like the standard mix is 1 part beeswax and 4 parts oil. I am thinking beeswax and a blend of tung oil and boiled linseed oil. Is this used for the only finish and also buffed out like Johnson's paste wax?

I'm still on the fence with the finish for this piece. I may just have to decide after a couple of test pieces.

toothed planed

#60 grit sanded

#100 grit sanded

Thanks for the replies so far.
I especially like the idea of being able to refinish it when it gets banged and dinged up or when it gets worn… or worse case if I decide I should have done something else.

Jon


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

> I like the oil/wax idea too but its been 100 plus degrees this last week here and I m wondering if that will be durable for what I want to do, especially with the heat.
> - MrWolfe


Heat? HaHa
My workbench sits in Arizona unconditioned garage. Check my project list. Oil/Wax holds up well in 110F heat. Garage can hit 120F, but my body can not take above 110F, so can't vouch for performance above 110.

Note: Use only Beeswax. My paraffin blocks in garage melt and reform to shape of the container every summer. They also get slick outside surface, and will melt into paper of box/bag. Beeswax blocks never change shape, and also do not stick to plastic bag used to store extra blocks from local bee keeper. Because of AZ heat, paraffin only gets used as lube for screws.

PS - Don't recommend paste wax on a work bench! 
Do you want your wood and tools to slide off the bench with gentle push? 
If yes, then use poly and finish with paste wax. That's what i use on Table saw extension table. 
Plywood cut off pieces will float right off the table on to the floor easily.

Cheers!


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

Ultimately the finish is not going to really protect the surface much (unless you want to pour epoxy or spray lacquer). Use something that is simple to apply and easy to re-do. You're going to need to re-flatten the top many times throughout its lifetime so make the finish something that won't be hard to remove. I used a couple coats of BLO on my bench, every few years the benchtop gets re-flattened and a couple more coats.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> I am building a portable bench with a moxon vise top that I can rough-hew tree slices into bowls and platters with an adze. I will be using an adze, an ax and a couple of drawknives, chisels and gouges on it.
> 
> Jon
> 
> - MrWolfe


Jon, it really sounds like a rough use bench/benchtop. I can see the need for it to be "pretty" flat so you can attend to woodwork, instead of a constant balancing operation, but for bowl, and scooped shapes having the work in some type of cradle is going to be a lot more important to me, then any worry about top smoothness, or finish. Or I would just make a sacrificial top for use over my normal bench, something the size of the work I plan to do.

Or maybe you are a much better aim than I am, and never miss a stroke, and glance off the table?

I trust you will come up with something good for this.


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## MrWolfe (Jan 23, 2018)

Hey SteveN,
I think you have some great points. This will be my second moxon and this one has bigger vise chops, almost 18 inches between the screws. So it will double as another dovetailing vise for larger boxes and cabinets. 
I saw a very interesting video last night about power carving. The guy's bench was very basic and he built a "cradle" for a burl that he was working on by screwing four thick boards into a square that was just the right size. He was just screwing down into the bench but I like your idea of a sacrificial benchtop. It wouldn't bother me to screw down into it and clamp it down on the moxon vise.

I have an angle grinder and some arbortech cutters that I haven't gotten into yet so I think power carving is in my future too.

I am learning as I go but I'd rather know now than figure stuff out the hard way.

CaptainKlutz and anyone else….
I am interested in oil/wax recipes if you have them.
Jon


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## coxhaus (Dec 14, 2015)

I used a mixture of BLO, beeswax and turpentine mixed evenly on my work benches. The wax helps to keep the glue from sticking. You can also polish it if you want but then the glue sticks easier. You use turpentine to melt the beeswax then add the BLO. I tend to shave the beeswax so it melts easier.


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

oil/wax mixes?

Used to make my own. Not anymore. Had a small fire due a out of control hotplate, and over vigorous mixing a molten wax/oil mixture. :-( #IAMAKLUTZ

Plus the conventional 1:4 blend can be semi-solid once cooled back to room temp depending on oil thickness; which makes them more work to apply. Personally don't like using tung oil as it makes an thick sticky liquid, plus it darkens the wood more than linseed oil.

In my old age, have become a little lazy and use commercial product from Tried and True, called Original Wood Finish? Pick it up when it's on sale for $25 quart. It has food safe linseed oil, 25% wax; and it is liquid at even 50F application temperatures. https://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/products/original-wood-finish/
A quart of 4:1 DIY blend cost about $12-$15 depending on wax cost, and for me it's worth cost difference to not have to listen to my wife complain as I bring flammable materials in her kitchen? :-0)

BTW - A quart last forever. I used < 2oz total of T&T Original Wood finish on last re-coat of my 28×80 work bench. You actually have to learn how to avoid applying too much, as you rub off and waste what is not absorbed.

Agree with coxhaus for one aspect of oil/wax blend. If you want the finish to soak in deeper, use mineral spirits (real stuff AKA stoddard solvent, or paint thinner). For my 1st coat, typically add 25% mineral spirits to 'Original Wood Finish'. Just note that mineral spirits slows the oxidation process of oil, and requires more time between each coat of finish.

PS - Your choice of beeswax in DIY makes a difference in amount of color added to wood. Purified white beeswax adds a lot less color than cheaper unrefined yellow colored wax. So if lowest amount of color is critical, use the white stuff, and realize your wax costs will be little higher.

YMMV


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## coxhaus (Dec 14, 2015)

I don't cook my mixture above but I live in Texas where it is warm and hot. I find paint thinner or mineral sprints does not melt beeswax like turpentine does. I use the smelly old turpentine. I use disposable paint gloves from Walmart and a t-shirt small square to apply the finish. Sometimes I let the turpentine beeswax sit for a few days so it can melt.


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## Chashint (Aug 14, 2016)

I like a pretty smooth surface but I don't use hand tools much.
For the described use of your bench if it feels good to your bare hands, I would call the sanding done. 
For a finish I have used straight up polyurethane on one bench and straight up BLO on another. 
Can't really recommend one over the other, nothing soaks into the polyurethane bench at all and "things" slide across it easily, glue and other gunk scrape / pop off easily. 
Assuming I don't just let it sit there for hours the BLO bench doesn't soak up much either but there's plenty of different color stains permanently on it. Glue does not adhere to it and is easily removed. 
A home brew mix of any ratio polyurethane/BLO/MS would probably work great.


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## MrWolfe (Jan 23, 2018)

Okay…. now you've talked me out of using a hotplate to make my own mixture. 
Which is probably a good thing.

So the plan is to get some turpentine tomorrow and soak the beeswax in it for a day or two to melt the wax. Thanks Coxhaus for that tip. I've also read online where some woodworker puts b.l.o. thinned with a little mineral spirits for the first coat so that the wood soaks it up and darkens a little more.

That is where I am tonight.

First coat, left the wood sanded to 60 grit which I am liking more and more. I wish I had grooved the surface with a toothed plane but I will try that in another project soon. The rough surface really soaked up the b.l.o. though. I was surprised at how much. I will wipe it down again before I sleep tonight. Maybe another coat of b.l.o. if the wood looks like it wants it. Then I will try the turpentine/oil/wax mixture and go from there.

I am really happy with the look of the first coat. 
Thanks for all the input and encouragement.

Before pics of the raw wood



















after first coat of b.l.o. and m.s.



















I'll update once I've put the oil/turp/wax mixture on it.
-Jon


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

Jon, that isn't a Moxon. That's a full size bench with a full frontal face vise, lol. That thing is huge.

I've always just done 1/3's MS, Poly, and BLO. It's worked well for me so far. 3 coats, sand down between to keep the nibs from taking root. After 3, if I still want protection I'll just drop out the BLO, and the MS thinned Poly goes on really thin dries really fast, and I can build it up to bulletproof pretty quick. Pretty sure Jeff Jewitt would take credit for it, even if it's been in use forever.


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## coxhaus (Dec 14, 2015)

When you start getting a lot of BLO on it starts taking a long time to dry. Make sure you wipe it off.


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## coxhaus (Dec 14, 2015)

BLO is not like varnish where you are building coats on top of the wood. You may already have enough BLO on your bench. You may be better off not applying any more.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

I used what Richard Maguire recommended on mine and like it. Sanded to 120 and Just BLO and turps 50/50 until it doesn't soak in anymore. Leaves a surface a bit grippy. Glue and stuff still picks right off and super easy to repair/recoat. I wouldn't want any wax personally as i hate when stuff is sliding around like a ouija board. Kind of like anti clamps and stops. But i did make my own finishes for oter stuff. One was I boiled 8 oz linseed oil and added 2 oz of beeswax. The other is behlens pure tung oil 50/50 with Citrasolv ao ot dries faster.


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## MrWolfe (Jan 23, 2018)

Thanks for all the suggestions and for the recipes.
I'm two coats into the piece now and the beeswax/turp is still melting. I'm going to let it thoroughly dry now a couple of days in the hot Texas sun but so far it hasn't "bled" any excess oil and it seems dry to the touch. Once the beeswax mixture is liquified I will add some b.l.o. for the final coat.

Thanks SMP for the tung oil/citrasolv recipe. I have a quart of tung oil but haven't used it because of the drying time.
Now I have an idea of how to use it in the future.
Jon


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## coxhaus (Dec 14, 2015)

The beeswax does not make the work bench slick unless you buff it. If anything it makes it more sticky to where thing don't slide. It does wear off in time. I did my work benches 3 years ago and most is worn off now.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> Thanks for all the suggestions and for the recipes.
> I m two coats into the piece now and the beeswax/turp is still melting. I m going to let it thoroughly dry now a couple of days in the hot Texas sun but so far it hasn t "bled" any excess oil and it seems dry to the touch. Once the beeswax mixture is liquified I will add some b.l.o. for the final coat.
> 
> Thanks SMP for the tung oil/citrasolv recipe. I have a quart of tung oil but haven t used it because of the drying time.
> ...


Don't thank me, thank Kenneth at Maine Coast craft, got his recipe for finishing wooden spoons. Good read if you have some time. I really dislike mineral oil and wanted something much better/nicer. Fyi, i get my Citrasolv at the art store Blick.

http://www.mainecoastcraft.com/blog/an-oil-finish-for-hand-carved-wooden-spoons


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

A HF best buy for someone who owns cast iron tops on tools, or finishes large surfaces with anything wax based.

 
They also have another one, twice the price now, ehhh this one kicks major Buddah


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## coxhaus (Dec 14, 2015)

If you are in Texas there is a large bee farm in Temple Texas called Walker Honey Farm. It sells beeswax about as cheap as you will find. They also have a lot of honey meads to try. It can get fun.


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## coxhaus (Dec 14, 2015)

> A HF best buy for someone who owns cast iron tops on tools, or finishes large surfaces with anything wax based.
> 
> 
> They also have another one, twice the price now, ehhh this one kicks major Buddah
> ...


I would not buy a power tool from Harbor Freight. I bought a hand grinder once to save money. After I used it for a couple of hours my hands hurt from the vibration. I threw it away and went and bought a Makita, so much better. It ended up costing more since I ended up buying 2 tools. I then later bought a Hitachi which was also much better than the HF. So stick with name brands.


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## MrWolfe (Jan 23, 2018)

Thanks for all the comments and tips.
I am updating with some pics. I applied the Beeswax/turpentine/b.l.o. finish today. It looks and smells really good.
I'll probably start another thread about the moxon vise that this whole finish thread is about. I will link back to this post so other LBJs can read all of your great tips and suggestions.










I made about 10 ounces or more of the finish and it is roughly 1/3 of each of the ingredients, about 3 ounces of each.
I shaved the wax with a paring knife and put it in a tin with just enough turpentine to almost cover.
After 2 days it was mostly melted and I added just a splash more of turpentine and mixed/mashed it with a flexible silicon spatula. Lastly I added the b.l.o. and stirred it until blended.

It seems to want to stay semi liquid and I simply wiped it on with a clean rag and hand buffed it. I've been checking it every few hours to wipe away any excess but there is not much. What little there in seems to be easily buffed back in.










The surface looks great and the finish smells like it would be great on pancakes. Its a little tacky to the touch but not sticky.
I have plenty of this oil/wax/turp blend left for touch ups or for other projects.
Thanks for all the tips and comments again.
I really appreciate the community here.
Jon










Coxhaus…. I'm a few hours out from Temple. 
There are a couple of apiaries near San Antonio but none that have honey mead. 
That would be fun.


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## coxhaus (Dec 14, 2015)

If your that far away don't plan on driving home after all the fun with the mead.

When I first covered my benches I had a few bees circling over head.

I stored my left overs in a canning jar with lid.


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