# Which is better for relief carving CarveWright CX or Shapeoko XXL 3?



## MikeAtencio

I have a budget of $2000 or a little more. I'm considering the CarveWright CX or the Shapeoko XXL. I plan to buy VCARVE PRO too once I have the CNC machine and a separate budget has been created for that.

What I want to build are relief carved head and footboards for my bed, carved lions heads on the vertical wood of my fireplace and some furniture pieces with Victorian era ornate carvings. The CarveWright has a moving system that can accomodate boards up to 12' long in one cut. I can stop it at regular intervals to let it cool down if I have to.

The Shapeoko XXL seems sturdy enough but then I have to tile the work after each area has been carved lending to issues with it lining up. Mahogany is really pricey and I don't want to screw up the wood. I also don't want to buy an expensive paperweight.

Has anyone used either or know of a better machine that can do these projects at about the same cost of the CNC machines I'm looking at?

Thanks
Mike


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## ArtMann

Be advised that the CarveWright machine runs its own proprietary design and control software and will not work with Vectric software products or any other industry standard software.


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## MikeAtencio

> Be advised that the CarveWright machine runs its own proprietary design and control software and will not work with Vectric software products or any other industry standard software.
> 
> - ArtMann


Have you used the CarveWright at all. Is it a good machine? Dependable and reliable or a problem child?


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## diverlloyd

https://www.amazon.com/CarveWright-CW-CX-Woodworking-System/product-reviews/B00KOO4V8E

Reviews are not so great seems like you have a 40% chance to get on that will work the way you want it to


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## ArtMann

I haven't used one. I was interested in buying one for a while and did a lot of research. There are quite a few fans of the machine in addition to a lot of detractors. Ultimately, I decided to buy a more professional grade machine that uses industry standard software and hardware.


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## MikeAtencio

What did you end up getting?


> I haven t used one. I was interested in buying one for a while and did a lot of research. There are quite a few fans of the machine in addition to a lot of detractors. Ultimately, I decided to buy a more professional grade machine that uses industry standard software and hardware.
> 
> - ArtMann


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## MikeAtencio

I discovered the same thing. The company tech told me problems occur during rough shipping and or when the tool is moved. It seems it has to be reset and calibrated each time its moved, even moving it around the shop. I have a 3D printer with the same issues. It sucks. If I can tile work together on a different 3D router carver, that's important to me. Guess I take a chance either way.


> https://www.amazon.com/CarveWright-CW-CX-Woodworking-System/product-reviews/B00KOO4V8E
> 
> Reviews are not so great seems like you have a 40% chance to get on that will work the way you want it to
> 
> - diverlloyd


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## Desert_Woodworker

Whatever from above: 
1. Have you tried the "free" trial from Vetric?
In the CNC world, you need to speak the language CAD/CAM, a real machine that can cut 12' such as you are describing- PLEASE post your finished results
Best to you- OFF MY WATCH

Ps check his home page http://www.mikeswork.us/


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## diverlloyd

I myself would not buy anything that can't be moved without messing up the machine. I know that I'm bad about banging things around and dropping things. The reviews just seem to make it out to be a delicate machine. If your good with it then go for it, but I would try to shop around some more.


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## MikeAtencio

That happens to be the one thing I hate about my 3D printer. Same issue. Move and I have to recalibrate. Nor sure I like the spindle cable instead of router either. A Shapeoko uses vcarve pro, can tile but limited by the space of the table, I think. Im calling them today about the specifically. Honestly, the CarveWright seems it was engineered to make me keep spending money after the purchase. I had several cars like that over the years. Not what I want out of a shop tool.


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## ArtMann

Camaster Stinger



> What did you end up getting?
> 
> I haven t used one. I was interested in buying one for a while and did a lot of research. There are quite a few fans of the machine in addition to a lot of detractors. Ultimately, I decided to buy a more professional grade machine that uses industry standard software and hardware.
> 
> - ArtMann
> 
> - Mike Atencio


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## MikeAtencio

> Whatever from above:
> 1. Have you tried the "free" trial from Vetric?
> In the CNC world, you need to speak the language CAD/CAM, a real machine that can cut 12 such as you are describing- PLEASE post your finished results
> Best to you- OFF MY WATCH
> 
> Ps check his home page http://www.mikeswork.us/
> 
> - Desert_Woodworker


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## MikeAtencio

I just downloaded it. Haven't got a chance to learn anything yet. I decided I'm going with the Shapeoko 3 XXL and using VCarve Pro. I'm sure there are a lot of libraries out there though I don't know where to begin looking for them.


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## MikeAtencio

I decided on the Shapeoko 3XXL with VCarve Pro. It felt like the other was a big money tree for the company. My money them selling me addons, patterns etc. I hate to have to keep paying over and over. VCarve Pro seems like a much better program and I can tile work with it, though it's a little clumsy. 


> Camaster Stinger
> 
> What did you end up getting?
> 
> I haven t used one. I was interested in buying one for a while and did a lot of research. There are quite a few fans of the machine in addition to a lot of detractors. Ultimately, I decided to buy a more professional grade machine that uses industry standard software and hardware.
> 
> - ArtMann
> 
> - Mike Atencio
> 
> - ArtMann


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## ArtMann

VCarve Pro and the more expensive Aspire are industry standards and thousands of operators use them to make a living every day. I have never heard of anyone making a living with CarveWright. If you really take to CNC routing, you will probably want to get a bigger, faster machine at some point. When you do, your Vcarve experience will apply 100%. The same would not be true of CarveWright software.


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## MikeAtencio

I came around to that conclusion myself. Thanks


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## OG51

Mike, there can be a fairly steep learning curve with any of these machines. Some more than others.

Regardless of the machine, the key to success is mastering the software and learning the limitations and capabilities of your machine. You will have fun with it.

There really is a love or hate relationship with the Carvewright. I've had one for five years now. Just sharing my experience and not promoting or recommending one way or the other.

It is a hobby machine and not really meant for production. There are a few folks that do make a living with them but from what I have seen they do it by running several machines with a backup or a spares part one for emergencies when one goes down. I hadn't heard about the moving sensitivity issue. lol. I throw mine around a lot and I've yet to calibrate it at all. I have had mine on a DEWALT Rolling Universal Miter Saw Stand so I can tuck it away after use.

The Carvewright has its own proprietary software but you can work around it. I design my own cnc patterns in stl format which can be used by pretty much all machines including the Carvewright, with an add-on .

Any cnc machine can create amazing works if you have the right patterns/designs.

If you have a chance let us know how the Shapeoko works out for you. Any tool that gets the job done is a good tool.

- Oscar


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## MikeAtencio

Hi Oscar,
I like the Carvewright for the length of boards I can carve at a single time. I want to build my own Victorian furniture (a fireplace too) and not having to tile a lot of sections is really appealing. Do you think this machine is capable of making many pieces of furniture with little problem? One item is a Gothic canopy bed such as what is in a castle, three armoires (my Victorian has no closets at all) and I build and donate wood box urns to people in need (my own little charity). I can build the basic items and then carve the intricate details (like my family Coat of Arms) for the headboard, and the fireplace I would like to have a sitting lion on each side as part of the mantle design. Every piece is long. Few would have to be tiled with the Carvewright, unlike Shapeoko XXL and I wouldn't have to by the Vcarve Pro @ $800.00 in addition to the machine. However, does the Carvewright require an upgrade to better software do handle the relief carving? If you'd be kind enough to evaluate my needs against your understanding of the Carvewright's capabilities, that would be a big help. Thank you for your input and feedback. I haven't spoken with anyone owning a Carvewright. It's hard to make a decision with no firsthand knowledge. Again, thanks


> Mike, there can be a fairly steep learning curve with any of these machines. Some more than others.
> 
> Regardless of the machine, the key to success is mastering the software and learning the limitations and capabilities of your machine. You will have fun with it.
> 
> There really is a love or hate relationship with the Carvewright. I ve had one for five years now. Just sharing my experience and not promoting or recommending one way or the other.
> 
> It is a hobby machine and not really meant for production. There are a few folks that do make a living with them but from what I have seen they do it by running several machines with a backup or a spares part one for emergencies when one goes down. I hadn t heard about the moving sensitivity issue. lol. I throw mine around a lot and I ve yet to calibrate it at all. I have had mine on a DEWALT Rolling Universal Miter Saw Stand so I can tuck it away after use.
> 
> The Carvewright has its own proprietary software but you can work around it. I design my own cnc patterns in stl format which can be used by pretty much all machines including the Carvewright, with an add-on .
> 
> Any cnc machine can create amazing works if you have the right patterns/designs.
> 
> If you have a chance let us know how the Shapeoko works out for you. Any tool that gets the job done is a good tool.
> 
> - Oscar
> 
> - OG51


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## OG51

Mike,

Can it do it. Yes. But….

The max width of the board that can go into it is 15 inches. So anything wider you also have to tile or piece together. The basic software allows you to carve up to 1 inch deep. It is another upgrade to be able to carve to 2 inches. To use STL format you need another add-on to convert to the proprietary format of the machine.

It can accept very long pieces of lumber but they need to be supported with rollers. The machine is mostly plastic and out feed trays are not super strong. They like to flex under any real weight and cause tracking problems.

For examples of what it can do, I have several carved pieces on my project page.

http://lumberjocks.com/OG51/projects

The company has had quality control issues in the past but I believe "most" have been ironed out. It is a very capable little machine but it can be finicky. Again, my opinion and what I have seen, is at this price point they probably all are. I've torn mine apart a few times due to cleaning and maintenance and finally feel comfortable doing so.

My second cnc, whenever I get one, will not be a Carvewright. The reason is it is a very loud machine. I won't get rid of my Carvewright, but I can't even imagine running two side by side. I am already going deaf.

I know it is a big decision. So best of luck with your choice. In the end, it will be a lot of fun (regardless of choice) learning what it can do.

What part of Louisiana are you in?


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## MikeAtencio

see next comment


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## MikeAtencio

I'm in Homer, North Louisiana by the Central Arkansas border. You say you won't get a second Carvewrite, which other machine are you considering? I have concerns about the plastic parts flexing. Tiling for something like an armoire or head board is to be expected. I am leaning towards the Shapeoko XXL. I'd really like the SHARK but my budget doesn't like the price. The thing that really pushes me away from the Carvewright is the way the company forces people to buy patterns, upgrades if you want to further the use of other patterns and so on. It feels like I'd be nickle and dime'd to death and add that I have to buy upgrades for using STL files irks me. Too bad no one has come up with a strong metal fix for the plastic trays. It seems that is something the company should sell instead of all the other upgrades. What do I know, I'm just a customer afterall… lol

-Mike, Louisiana


> Mike,
> 
> Can it do it. Yes. But….
> 
> The max width of the board that can go into it is 15 inches. So anything wider you also have to tile or piece together. The basic software allows you to carve up to 1 inch deep. It is another upgrade to be able to carve to 2 inches. To use STL format you need another add-on to convert to the proprietary format of the machine.
> 
> It can accept very long pieces of lumber but they need to be supported with rollers. The machine is mostly plastic and out feed trays are not super strong. They like to flex under any real weight and cause tracking problems.
> 
> For examples of what it can do, I have several carved pieces on my project page.
> 
> http://lumberjocks.com/OG51/projects
> 
> The company has had quality control issues in the past but I believe "most" have been ironed out. It is a very capable little machine but it can be finicky. Again, my opinion and what I have seen, is at this price point they probably all are. I ve torn mine apart a few times due to cleaning and maintenance and finally feel comfortable doing so.
> 
> My second cnc, whenever I get one, will not be a Carvewright. The reason is it is a very loud machine. I won t get rid of my Carvewright, but I can t even imagine running two side by side. I am already going deaf.
> 
> I know it is a big decision. So best of luck with your choice. In the end, it will be a lot of fun (regardless of choice) learning what it can do.
> 
> What part of Louisiana are you in?
> 
> - OG51


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## OG51

Mike,

I am saving my pennies. I am looking at the ~10K machines. That seems to be the point where you are getting real production hardware (light). Still haven't decided on final one since I don't have the money yet but the Shopbot is in the lead right now.

The outfeed trays on the Carvewright are metal but they are fairly thin and do flex with real weight on them. Using enough roller stands does fix that. I have run 6 ft of oak with no issues carving a custom rail.

This is purely my assumptions but they are probably selling the machine with a paper thin profit margin and attempting to make their profit on the add-ons and consumables. Nothing wrong with that business model but it can feel like they nickel and dime you sometimes. They did make the add-ones as modules so you can purchase as your needs grows or not buy them at all. The basic software does allow you to create your own carving/cut patterns with enough patience and creativity. But software costs are a consideration. The designer Pro (upgrade from the basic software) is $300 and the STL importer is $200.

There are several hundred free patterns available for the machine on their forum with different degrees of quality. At least a little perk for Carvewright users.

I asked location because I am a little bit outside Shreveport. About 1.5 hours away from you.


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## MikeAtencio

Where are you at? You make good points, none of which I considered. Usually I'm telling my kids to examine things from all perspectives, then I go and do the opposite. I'd love to get into production of some custom urns. They are what I want to make with the machine. No one should ever feel guilty about not being able to pay for an urn for a lost loved one. I just want to make and give them to folks in need. Making my furniture is secondary dream to doing that. I hope you get that nice 10k unit. That would be fantastic. I'm in Homer,


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## OG51

I'm in Waskom, Texas. It's right at the Texas/Louisiana border west of Shreveport.

I don't see a problem in doing both of your tasks. Making the urns and furniture should not be an issue with any machine you select. Again its learning the software and working around the limitations of the machine.

They are a ton of fun (and frustrating sometimes) to use regardless of what you pick.


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## OG51

Mike,

It is a hard decision. If you get a CW you buy into their eco-system but if you go with a more open solution the learning curve is steeper but you have more options for hardware. Any of the machines can do what you need them albeit either by piecing and long carve times. A friend does mantles with the CW and they are normally 12-15 hour carves. None of these machines will be super fast.

I'll be out of town the next two weeks, but if you make it down this way after that and haven't finished your decision, I can do a quick demo with the machine unless you've already seen it functioning.

What sold me on the CW was the STL importer.


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## MikeAtencio

I know where Waskom is. My kid lives in Tyler. I can't help think on many levels the CW is the better choice for a beginner. My heart says the Shapeoko. As you pointed out, there's a significant learning curve with the VCarve Pro software in addition to the included software. And tiling just seems like I'm adding a lot of complexity to a complicated set up already due to my lack of experience.

Longer pieces mean less tiling. I have a lot of trim that needs replacing. It was custom made 130 years ago so I have to make my own. Ten foot pieces six inches wide is def a job the CW would be better at. Mantle trim and decoration is another. decorative trim for the Armoires as well. Thinking about it, I have to go with the CW over the Shapeoko. If only I could afford a commercial CNC instead. Perhaps I can earn enough to buy one at a later date.

As for the noise, I have a pair of noise cancelling headphones I use for shooting. They'd be perfect for the CW based on what you told me about the noise. I would like to come down one day and see it at work on something simple, start to finish. I appreciate the invite.

Now one final question, I have to create plans for the urns. What do you suggest is a good, easy software to use? I've decided to go with the CW. I wonder if they have a trial use software. I'll have to check it out. Thanks friend.
Mike


> Mike,
> 
> It is a hard decision. If you get a CW you buy into their eco-system but if you go with a more open solution the learning curve is steeper but you have more options for hardware. Any of the machines can do what you need them albeit either by piecing and long carve times. A friend does mantles with the CW and they are normally 12-15 hour carves. None of these machines will be super fast.
> 
> I ll be out of town the next two weeks, but if you make it down this way after that and haven t finished your decision, I can do a quick demo with the machine unless you ve already seen it functioning.
> 
> What sold me on the CW was the STL importer.
> 
> - OG51


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## bonesbr549

I looked at both the systems you mentioned. I did not like the proprietary carve wright, and the very narrow width. I also looked at the shapeoko but after a lot and I mean a lot of research and talking to users, it has some real drawbacks. First, I'd say my drawbacks might not be yours as it depends on what you want to do with it. 
For me it needed to be:
1) robust and be able to do more than just wood.
2) be able to run for long periods as you will find that any detail work at all you need to allow a lot of time to make the cuts. You can do fast but quality will suffer. If you want fast and fine cuts that drives cost up dramatically
3) variable speed. The learning curve is hard on these things. I was coming in as a computer programmer/hardware guy, so IT I know. I thought it would be a slam dunk as I already knew cad. I was shocked. The software is not the hard part. It's learning how to make a part. Feeds and speeds of the bit depending on the task and material. You will have to learn plunge rates. To get this I'd recommend going with a spindle for two reasons. They will stand up to the stress and run for hours, and you can control the speed, but that will cost. 
4) accuracy. You pay for that. These little jobs get you close and if simple sighns are what you want, then ok, but if you want to do anything like aluminum, or other items where you really need that accuracy, those light jobs will just frustrate you.

I considered building one, and there are plans out there, but I did not want to fool with stepper motors and controllers and so forth so I wanted more of a commerical unit. The bigboys are just out of my leage llike the ones you see in big shops. So, I looked for a kit that I could build and the company would spport.

I went with cncrouterparts.com and that was several years ago and don't regret it. I bought the plug-n-play controller and kit, and they spent hours with me as I asked newbie questions and they helped get me going. The machine has stood the test of time. Check them out. They have different sizes based on your need.

Next and biggest help I got was cnc cookbook. Great tool. I just put in my material and parameters and it calculated the feeds and speeds. It's never failed me.

https://www.cnccookbook.com/cnc-feed-rate-calculator/

Cheers and be prepared to learn. It took me a long time to get comfortable, but it is nice to start a job and just let it run and do other things.

I'm just now starting to branch out into acrylics and led backgounds. Fun stuff.


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## MikeAtencio

Wow! Thats what I was hoping to get out of comments here. Ill certainly look it that company. Thanks for some great feedback. Stay in touch.
Mike


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## OG51

Mike,

Just got in from out of town.

Just as bonesbr549 mentioned, you can't beat a kit for bang for your buck. I looked into them but wanted a little bit more turn key for my first cnc. If you are mechanically minded that is a great way to go.

More info. Again not for or against.

Good and bad the CW manages all your feed rates and speed. Good, you don't have to mess with them and bad, you never learn that part of cnc machining. It is a critical part of cnc machining so you don't break bits or burn your lumber and start forest fires.

The machine can carve acrylics and a bunch of folks are doing led pieces. I personally haven't done any so don't know the ins or outs. They have mentioned it does make a mess with plastic sticking everywhere thanks to static from cutting.

If you want to make your own patterns you will have to learn either CAD/CAM or a 3d package. Vcarve Pro and Aspire make it probably as easy to accomplish as humanly possible. Big reason for the popularity of those programs.

I use Blender 3d (free) and Zbrush (~$800.00) to make my patterns. If you don't have a 3d/CAM background the learning curve will be steep. Its taken me five years of learning to be able to make my patterns but I can now pretty much make anything I want, with enough time. Here is a coat of arms I designed for my in-laws.


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## OG51

Mike, I will be busy this weekend but I should be available the following weekend if you want a demo.

The sad story is that at this price point there will be limitations and compromises with the options that are available. Working within the limitations though, you will have a very fun tool that expands the creative potential for your projects.

Here is a "small" list of 3d programs that are available to start. It is not definitive and there are many other options. It does not list any of the purpose built cnc programs like vcarve pro.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_3D_modeling_software


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## MikeAtencio

I found a 3D relief router called the LowRider. It cuts 4×8 foot panels and does relief carving. It costs about $800 to buy and build.

https://www.v1engineering.com/wp-login.php?redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.v1engineering.com%2Fmembers%2Fghostman1%2Fnotifications%2F&bp-auth=1&action=bpnoaccess


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## OG51

Mike,

That is really interesting looking. I was unfamiliar with the company but its going into my favorites list.

You will definitely understand how a cnc works after putting it together. Let us know how it goes and your thoughts.

The plasma cutter build looks awesome. Good luck with the build and follow on projects. You will have a blast!


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## MikeAtencio

Someone sent the web address to me and said I could get what I wanted for around $800 to 1000. Then I discovered I can make a 3D printer, lowrider, laser cutter or plasma cutting system. It fits my measly budget perfect. Had to share with you as I knew you'd appreciate it. Looks like you dream CNC just got a lot more affordable. Hope I helped . I agree, if you build it, its easy to work on. I prefer that anyways.


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