# Beginner's table saw recommendation



## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

Does anyone have a recommendation for a beginner's table saw?

Is a used Delta 36-650 in good condition at $200 a decent investment? I will not buy anything w/o a manual, though.

I was thinking I will wait a bit longer to buy one, as I'm new at this, and have had waaaaayyyyy less time to experiment with making sawdust than I previously anticipated. However, I might jump on this if you think it's a decent investment.

*Do you have any recommendations for decently accurate table saws on a budget?*

Problem is: storage space!!! I barely have space in the garage with the two cars in there, and I actually DO want to keep the cars in the garage overnight. I think there is about a 32" area of floor space in the slightly higher-level space on the front wall, where the saw would be stored.

This would be my first one.

THANKS!!!


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## BlairH (Jan 19, 2009)

You might want to consider a good quality bench top saw if space is such an issue. I hear they're getting pretty good now. I don't have any experience with them but I think the dewalts are supposed to be good. I have a Ridgid TS3650 that I got one sale at Home Depot for $499. I really like it. Hope that helps, good luck with the search.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

The 36-650 is a full size basic cast iron contractor saw with the tradtional 1.5hp belt drive induction motor hanging off the back. It's essentially a Delta predecessor to the current 36-980. It has steel wings and a functional aluminum Delta t-square fence.  That's a very serviceable saw, and is similar to what many of us use or have used for many years before hybrids and affordable cabinet saws were widely available. IIRC they sold new in the $500-$600 range. $200 is a pretty nice buy if it's in good condition….not much financial risk there. Good alignment and good blade selection are the key factors that dictate the end performance. A full size contractor saw will take up a little more space than a hybrid saw, but the table saw and motor power will offer much better function than any benchtop I can think of. You can maximize the space by adding a router table and/or a mobile base/storage cabinet under it.


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

I will be in contact with the seller ad ask about alignment, etc. If the dimensions he sent me are correct, then it means I actually can store it, stationed width-wise, on the raised front-wall garage space (you know, the step leading up to the garage/house door).

Any more caveats? Thanks a million for your replies, guys!


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

By the by ….

I have, and might recommend that you evaluate, the Bosch 4100.

I just noticed that Costco sells it … with its stand … pretty reasonably.


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

Neil: that looks great, I looked it up on Costco.com and couldn't find it, to see their price. I'm REALLY trying to control the spending, though-to be quite honest. Thanks.


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## JonathanG (Jan 18, 2010)

If you are storing it on the ledge at the front of the garage, also think about where you're going to use it in the garage. Are you going to have to get it off the lip, more towards the center of the garage to run wood through it? Sounds like it'll be stored against a wall, which is fine, but you won't be able to push wood through it there. Contractor's saws (such as the Delta above) weigh several hundred pounds, so take that into consideration.

I just went through purchasing my first table saw as well. I picked up a used PM64a off Craigslist for a good price.

Originally, I was looking for something a bit more compact and portable. If I would've gone that route, I would've gone with the Bosch 4100 like Neil recommended above. I did a fair amount of research, and that seemed to be the best portable TS out there, with the Rigid also being a good choice.

Neil, is it your local Costco selling it? I don't see it on the website?

Millo, not sure how familiar you are with TS operations, but you really want to spend some time setting the thing up correctly in order to be able to use it safely. If you don't set it up correctly, kickback can more easily happen. And I don't know about you, but I don't like the idea of a board flying at me at 110-MPH!

Make sure to familiarize yourself with the setup and safe use of the saw before you using it. It only takes once for a mishap.

Good luck with your acquisition and welcome to LJ!


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

*Millo*: I checked the website, too and didn't see it, but DID see it in the store SE of Denver, so ….

Note that it's a chunk cheaper without the stand. I bought it without and paid just over $400.

Just a thought…..

*Jonathan*: it was *your* local Costco (Parker) that was selling it. I saw it this past Saturday … in stock.

We po' folk, in Fort Collins … apparently don't deserve a Costco of our own ;-)


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Neil - I've been to Fort Collins….you "po' folk" live pretty well out there!


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

Jonathan: THANKS for the heads-up on the weight-b/c of my ignorance I thought 70lbs or so. Oops. OK, I'll take into heavy consideration…


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## deeznutz (Feb 17, 2010)

If size and weight are not too much of a consideration for you, keep an eye out for a used Ridged TS3650. I bought one used about a year ago (also my first table saw) on craigslist for $200 with a decent Freud blade and a Freud dado blade set. The manual is very good to have around but I'm sure Ridgid can send you one you find for a good deal happens to not come with one. It's heavy at around 275lb or so fully assembled but it's very easy to take apart (both cast iron wings and the motor come off with a total of about 10 bolts) for transportation, etc.

Once you get it tuned up and properly aligned, which you'll probably have to do with any saw you buy, you'll be very happy with it's performance i think. Save some money for a good after market miter gauge and you'll be set for some time.


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

If you can find one used, or on sale, the Craftsman 21829 is virtually the same saw as my Ryobi BT3100, but fitted onto a jobsite, folding stand. This saw can be folded up and rolled against a wall when not used, has a reputation for accuracy, and works great in a hobby shop. There are very active sites / forums dedicated to the BT3×00 and its Craftsman cousins with a treasure trove of ideas, advice, and plans for jigs, and improvements etc…


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

Wow, guys thanks for the help. 275lbs is a bit much for e but will consider it-especially if disassembling is easy.

dbhost: thanks for the heads-up on the Craftsman, as I have read they're usually not very accurate-this is what I'm looking for, one of those affordable-yet-well-made products.


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

Just checked the weight of the Delta: 234 lbs. Ouch, my back.


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## reggiek (Jun 12, 2009)

I have the Bosch 4100 I used for a jobsite tablesaw. It is light and has a nice gravity lowering utility cart. This Bosch works pretty nice and can be adjusted to cut pretty accurately. The only problem here is that arbor is not long enough to use much of a dado stack. If you plan on making alot of dado's you might want to look into a saw with a longer arbor. Contractor saws typically have short ones. I am not sure on the Hybrids though. I think if I was in the market for a Contractors or Hybrid, I would still take a serious look at the Saw Stop. The price is not the best….but saving a finger or other appendage is worth the extra price in my book.


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## GJP60 (Jan 12, 2010)

Hi Millo,
I think you would get much more saw for the money if you bought a used saw. They are readily available. In my area I saw 10 different saws on CL from $75-$250.


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

Thanks everyone….

dbhost: I've heard Craftsman makes a hook/hole set that is their exclusive for certain fences or guides, so that you can only use Craftsman's own stuff. I assume this only happens in the cheaper models-this is NOT the case for this table, correct?


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

Glen, are there any table saw you recommend PRECISELY in that price range-as far as we know, that are generally sold used in good condition within that range and are acceptably accurate, have rollers? I'll just build a little ramp, but I would need the rollers as I'm about 125-130lbs and wimpy, and some of these weigh twice as much as I do. In an ideal world I would be moving this against my garage door every time I'm done with it.


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## JonathanG (Jan 18, 2010)

Millo,

I was thinking about your situation. Originally, I thought about a ramp, but that's a bit unsafe, as it's going to want to move around on you too.

What about building a seperate platform that is the same height as your ledge/lip? Build it a little bigger than the saw's footprint when it's on rollers. Then you can lay the platform down and roll the saw onto it, giving you clearance to run wood through. You could maybe even make it a little longer and roll the saw more into the middle of your garage.

I realize this is not the ideal situation, and you will need to take safety into account. For instance, this is not as stable as rolling it into the middle of a cement floor would be. However, if you make it big enough and sturdy enough, I would think it would suffice? You might even want to put some sort of rubber backing on the platform so it really stays in one place on the garage floor. And you'd have to make sure your casters/stand is/are locked in-place.

If need be, I suppose you could even build two smaller platforms that attach together in the middle with some sort of locking latch mechanism.

Just make sure that it is stable, that you're not going to trip on any of it, and that the saw is locked in-place.

I'd think you could build it out of 2x for the frame, then either MDF or plywood for the platform. Just make sure to space the 2x close together so there's no noticeable amount of bowing on the platform. You could even cut out little areas on the top of the platform that you could either slip stakes down into, or something else to secure the saw stand/roller once it's on the platform. Does that make sense?

This would allow you to keep the saw level at all times, without having to worry about get all that weight up and down a ramp.

You could store the platform upright against the wall and just bring it down when you need it. What are others' thoughts on this?


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

I see what you're saying, sounds like a possible idea, and I do see its drawbacks as well.

On model recommendation I just read people recommending Ridgid saws like 2400-1, etc. Any comments on those?


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## Gofor (Jan 12, 2008)

If you only have a 32" deep spot for the saw, you are looking at a table-top saw with a knockdown cart. I have read a lot of positive reviews on the Ridgid 2010 and the Bosch. (Bosch is more expensive but the cart comes included, so make sure you compare apples to apples when pricing.) Some of the owners have made some fine furniture with them, but most that have stayed with furniture making have up-graded. These are all "direct drive"(i.e. the blade mounts on the motor shaft). Advantages: Its lighter, more mobile, takes up a smaller footprint. Disadvantages: Less stable fence, less table top to support work, NOISY (the blade acts as an amplifier for the motor noise). In reality, they are okay for most ripping and limited dado operation. Other than that, a good miter saw will meet most needs better.

That said, if you want a good saw for cabinet work, etc, you will be far happier with a contractor grade saw with cast iron (or granite) top and wings, belt driven. Advantages: It will be more accurate, have a more reliable fence, more surface in front of the blade to rest your work when setting up for a cut (i.e you can cross cut wider panels), and quieter. Disadvantages: Larger footprint (you will need over 4" depth), a bit more expensive unless found on sale or clearance.

Please do not make the mistake of buying a "table saw" that is really just an aluminum topped, direct drive bench model mounted on four legs, with stamped metal wings. You will regret that purchase and curse that saw, although like most of us who made that mistake, you will afterwards know a lot more about what you really need in one for the second buy.

SO, the question is: Do you REALLY need BOTH cars in the garage? (My 2 car garage only sees one vehicle in it, and thats only if an ice storm or hurricane is approaching!.D However, I am lucky enough to live where my car getting stolen or broken into is not a high probability.)

If you go with the bench saw, look for dado blade width capability; mobile cart cost, convenience, and stability; and look for user reviews that are posted by someone who has had the saw a while. As for the Ridgid, you can find a lot of reviews for the 2010 at www.ridgid.com on the forums. Don't know about the bosch.

Go

PS: For info: I have had the Ridgid TS3650 for 4 years (they have since upgraded 3 times) and am happy with it. The 3660 is basically the same saw. Can't speak for their newer granite-topped models, (4010, 4011) but I think they have discontinued those as well.


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## Sawdust4Blood (Feb 16, 2010)

I also have a TS3650 and have been very happy with it. The included mobile base has been more than adequate for moving it from it's storage spot against the garage wall to either then center of the garage (or an outside slab when the weather is nice). I previously used a portable for quite a while and made some things that I was very happy with. However, as I started doing larger projects, the limited table size, power, and dado limitations necessitated an upgrade. If you find a used Ridgid (even a discontinued model), you can download a full manual from the Ridgid website. The new granite models look like nice machines. They are a hybrid design so you don't have the motor protrusion on the back like you do with a contractor style. However, I also know the granite top machines weigh a hundred pounds more than the TS3650.


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## GregD (Oct 24, 2009)

Another idea is to find a local woodworking club and hang out there in the hope of finding someone upgrading from their old contractor saw - like me, thanks(?) in part to encouragement from the tool-addicts here at LJ. In my case I've been trying to get the most out of the saw and over the years added a T2 fence, link belt, and PALS, and kept the top lubricated and rust-free. Because its still a 17 year old saw I don't think these would make much difference to the price I'd get on Craigslist, but they would be a big plus to someone like you. Sadly, I'm in Houston and already gave a friend of mine a hellava deal to take my saw so I have room for the new baby (Sawstop Professional Cabinet).


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

Hey thanks for the Ridgid tips! I'll for the recommended models!


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

Seems like the last Ridgid recommended might be a bit over the budget limit, but used maybe I can get a deal? I'll look around…


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

IS $250 for a Ridgid 2424-0 a decent buy? This one is about 45-60 minutes from here, something else to consider.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

$250 isn't bad if it's in good shape, but it's no steal either. The 2424 is the same basic saw as the 2412, 3612, 3650, etc., but the fence has more left rip capacity, which is needless on a left tilt saw. You could essentially slide the fence 12" to the right and have the equivalent of a 3612. The wings are likely grated cast iron as opposed to solid….could also be steel which would make $250 too high IMO. Prolly 10-12 years old. Note that the weight is still going to be in excess of 250#. It's worth a look, and possibly an offer if it "feels right" to you.


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

Gofor: I don't NEED both cars in the garage, for the most part. I simply want them there. I've been in Austin for almost 6 yrs now. During that time, I think t has snowed 3 times (very "thin" flakes, not accumulated), been in about 3 sleet storms (nightmare to drive on-the city paralyzes), but have noticed there has been a few hail storms a year. When I lived in Indiana and Chicago I don't remember getting hail all that vividly over in the Midwest, in fact I don't think in the 4yrs I was over there there were no hail storms-at least not strong enough for me to remember them. I'm from the tropics. Anyhow, once in a while I would need to get the car in the garage, but to be honest I flat out do not like leaving it out. This is our first house, so I AM a bit worried about the hail-storm tendencies here. I know I'm being a bit OCD here-I'll have to negotiate that w/ myself, LOL!

Knotscott:

Thanks for the info on the Ridgids.


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## douglbe (Jul 22, 2007)

I vouch for the Rigid TS-3650. I've had mine for 3 years and I just wouldn't have a different contractor's saw. I downloaded the manual and really studied it before I bought the saw and I don't regret it at all.


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## t2krookie (Feb 17, 2010)

Just a plug for the BT-3X00 saw/craftsman model. Once setup "properly" they are very accurate. They also have a very functional router extention and t-track drop-in unlike several hobbyist type of portables or lower end contracter models. Also as a previous poster mentioned, they are very versitile and have several websites dedicated to that very saw like "www.bt3central.com". They are kinda like the erector set of tablesaws and have a heck of alot of ways to make them useful. I have had mine over 6 years, and while I am replacing her with a cabinet saw soon, she will still be there for my secondary setups. They also can be had for a decent price new or used. If ya get one, just shoot me a message and I'll send ya my manual. I'm just up the road a piece near Dallas.


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## JasonWagner (Sep 10, 2009)

I had a Ridgid TS2400 that was great. Their new folding contractor saw improves on it with a riving knife. Lots of people are happy with their various Ridgid saws. I think a smaller folding saw is a good choice for a tight spot.


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

Does anyone know anything about the Craftsman 137.24880? thanks.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Hailstorms can be *very* expensive to cars. True, that.

*Millo*:

Since buying my Bosch 4100, and "tricking it out" a bit … I think I've fallen to the dark side.

I think … given the opportunity to do it again … I probably would have waited and bought a cabinet saw-even if only a used one.

Fact is … there's a guy in my area who's selling a Grizzly 1023SL. I'm talking with him about … if he can't get a "fair" price for it, and *has* to sell it … working something out with him.

Is it THAT much better than my 4100?? I really don't know, but … for a fair number of reasons … I might spend the difference between mine and his to find out ;-)

Just another $0.02….


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

NBeener: I understand, there's always going to be something better… I am ready to feel like almost anything can be better, since I am a true 100% novice, LOL! I DO want something fairly accurate that can cut true and square, and on which I can cut trustworthy miters (carefully, of course, safety comes first), dados, finger joints, etc. but since I'm not putting on a pro-shop, I need to be realistic and spend as little as possible. No Grizzly, Delta Unisaw or SawStop for me AT THE MOMENT. If things go well and yeeeaaaaaarssssss from now it looks like I could get some money on the side taking orders for some furniture or boxes, I'll take the plunge and get something truly reliable, dependable, powerful and accurate.


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## BurtC (Oct 30, 2009)

I have the Bosch 4000-09 (w/gravity stand) and think it's great. I really would of liked to get a full size saw, but space is very limited. Got to admit though… Moving your saw around to your work, or outside is kind'a nice. If you go this route, order the table extensions for it. Dado's… I use a Freud stack up to about 5/8, no problem (reverse abor washers), so, two pass dados may be required.
Check out Amazon… no taxes and free shippimng to your door.


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

Someone posted a positive review of this saw:

http://www.lowes.com:80/pd_89913-46069-PCB220TS_0_?newSearch=true&catalogId=10051&productId=3163783&Ntt=porter+cable+table+saw+&N=0&langId=-1&y=0&x=0&Ns=p_product_price%7C0&storeId=10151&Ntk=i_products&ddkey=http:TopCategoriesDisplay

There are a few other positive ones there-honeymoon period? I'll be wanting to hear more about this one. Thanks everyone for all your help.


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## Dyidawg (Feb 24, 2010)

Millos,
I'm in the same boat. I have a Skil table I picked up for $50 that I use for my projects. Since I'm a newbie I didn't know any better. Now that I have caught the bug and had a chance to hang out and watch/help experienced woodworkers I realize that I'm going to have to invest in a better saw. I will be following this posting to what the general consensus will be.


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## mikeinmissouri (Mar 2, 2010)

If you are working out of a garage look into the rigid, my father in law has one, it's great for almost everything and even accepts a wide dado blade, if they are calling for bad weather you can just fold it up and pull the car in! You should really get the best saw you can afford as it will be the most used and trusted tool in your arsonal. If you are dedicating your garage to woodworking I would recommend you get a grizzly 10 inch cabinet saw!


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