# CHARLES NEIL vs. STUMPY NUBS- An epic throwdown!



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Charles Neil challenged me, and I accepted. It's sure to be a match on the level of Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant. It's the ultimate struggle between good and adequate, experience vs. mediocre talent, an epic battle between the South and the North not seen since the civil war!

On one side you have Charles Neil, professional woodworker with decades of experience.

On the other side you have Stumpy Nubs, professional something-or-other with a funny name.

And in the middle, refereeing this saw-dustup, is YOU. A week from Saturday the results will be presented right here in the Lumber Jocks forum. YOU will get to critique them. YOU will get to score them. YOU will get to decide who is the greatest woodworker of all time! (or at least who made a better table top box or cabinet).

*Here's the rules as agreed to by both of us…*

The project will be a small box or cabinet designed to sit on a living room end table and hold the junk that a person would like close at hand (remote control, etc). Any style that would be appropriate for the stated purpose is allowed.

Only solid, domestic woods can be used. No veneers or exotic woods.

The entries will be judged based on three criteria: 1. Form (a score of 1-10 on overall design and uniqueness); 2. Joinery (a score of 1-10 on overall durability and craftsmanship); 3. Function (a score of 1-10 on the usefullness of the design for the stated purpose)

Judging will be open to the LJ community, and the names of who made which project will be withheld until after the judging is completed. The person with the highest score as given by your comments in the upcoming project thread within seven days of when it is posted win.

Finally- we agree to make a GIFT of the final projects to each other, shipped at our own expense. This will ensure that neither side spends an excessive amount of money.

The deadline for completing the project will be a 12:00 PM EST November 5th- a week from this Saturday.

*Who will prevail? Who will be crowned the greatest craftsman to ever live? How poor a decision was it for Stumpy to accept the challenge? Only time will tell…..............*


----------



## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

Oh boy Stumper,
That's like me (150 lbs.) playing football against Dick Butkus.

Bad decision. ;-)


----------



## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Will there be a pot for wagering ?


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

JimC- I'm not afraid to get creamed. It's an honor just to be nominated… (which is exactly what people say right before they win an Oscar…)


----------



## Kindlingmaker (Sep 29, 2008)

Yes Yes Yes! This is another wonderous adventure in LumberJocks! YES!!!!!
Go get em', both of you!
: ) : ) : ) : )


----------



## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Roger: No, but there will be some pot for smoking.


----------



## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Yeah Charlie, Stumps will need it. He was probably under the influence when he accepted this challenge.


----------



## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Good luck to the both of you.

Is there a posted line in Vegas yet?


----------



## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

" JimC- I'm not afraid to get creamed. It's an honor just to be nominated… (which is exactly what people say right before they win an Oscar…)"

or before a firing squad


----------



## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

I'll be watching! (popcorn anyone?)


----------



## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

That's it
I'm finished!
It's inappropriate to contemplate doing physical harm to someone on this forum.
I'm taking my politically correct, holier-than-thou attitude and joining heavenlylumber-be-us.commie
Bye-Bye

;-)


----------



## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

But Jim C, you are already there.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)




----------



## racerglen (Oct 15, 2010)

Oh boy !
Party time, Go getum guys and WE WILL BE SITTING IN JUDGEMENT !

(So grasshopper, what have you learned from this experience ? )


----------



## Nomad62 (Apr 20, 2010)

Man, what a deal! Can I get in on it too? I mean, a contest in which you get the other persons entry, heck I could hack together an ugly old snag to get one of his pieces, lol! Seriously, great idea guys, best of luck to you both!


----------



## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

sorry
I'm not answering this as I left and I'm not watching this anymore!..................


----------



## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

I'm with you Jim. 
What a waste of band width!
See you over there.
The rest of you wing nuts can just fester in your own bile.


----------



## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

OK
I'm back. But you folks have only one more chance to agree with me on my points of view.


----------



## rrdesigns (Sep 4, 2009)

Holy cats! This should be fun. (This isn't a late April Fools trick is it?) I mean taking on Charles Neil? Really?


----------



## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

oh boy..cant wait to see this….....but ive learned to never under estimate the under underdog…...so …the gauntlet is thrown down…ready set goooooooooooooo…......let the saw dust fly….....


----------



## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

I'm donating my new and improved "egg beater" drill to the winner.
Good luck to both of you.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Grizz- Does Charles know you called him the "underdog"...

Look guys, this is all in good fun. I'll do my best work and get soundly thrashed. But Charles is being a real sport and I intend to make something that he wouldn't be ashamed to own. And even if the planets align and my project comes up on top, I am aware that it isn't a statement of who is the better woodworker. Charles owns that title hands down.


----------



## RBWoodworker (Mar 22, 2009)

this is the equivalent of ME… challenging the late Sam Maloof to a rocking chair build..wow..like I would have a chance..


----------



## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

Stumpy
I have to hand it to you.
Every post/comment you have started/joined has been entertaining.
Keep up the good work buddy.
We'll be watching.


----------



## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Go get him….you putz, you should have held for writing the steps of the process, you would have won…any how, good luck


----------



## Rick Dennington (Aug 27, 2009)

Nubs,

I'm afraid you might be in for a good shellacking…..I've seen your work, and I've seen his….this is like pitting the Cobra with the Mongoose, and we know which one usually looses….. But do your best….


----------



## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

*Stumpy*, I've got a question. Do we get to test Charles Neil's DNA to make sure that it's really him instead of someone that looks like him.This is of course if you win. I mean if we are going to be placing bets on this it seems only reasonable that we keep it totally honest and above board.


----------



## BrandonW (Apr 27, 2010)

Best of luck, Stumpy! I look forward to seeing the results.


----------



## BreakingBoardom (Dec 18, 2009)

Good luck to you both. And when is the deadline so we know when to start voting? You said a week from this Saturday and the 3rd. The 3rd is next Thursday and a week from Saturday is the 5th. So which is it? Starting to think maybe Roger was right and Stumpy was under the influence when he accepted and looked at his calendar.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

You're right, Breaking- That date doesn't match the day! Neither I nor Charles noticed. For now let's say the 3rd, but I may have to get with Charles and sort that out. I figure ending on a Saturday would be best. But since we both agreed on the terms as written above, I can't just change them without asking him- even if it is an error.

*Everyone- No, I am not nuts, and I do realize it appears to be a mismatch. He may beat me, but I think he's being a real class act by even going through with this. *

Woodinheaven- Thanks, you flatter me. Fact is, I just bought a new hammer and can't wait to try it out. So I said, what the heck…


----------



## GregD (Oct 24, 2009)

Hey, could this idea be expanded globally?
A WWF - World Woodworking Federation - Global Smackdown Tournament!
This winner would square off against the winner of a similar smackdown from somewhere else.
Say, maybe Europe.
But good grief, who would want to get into a box making smackdown with BritBoxMaker!


----------



## GregD (Oct 24, 2009)

Wait, if the rules say that the contenstants have to give their boxes to their competators, then I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to find someone willing to take on Martyn if they were going to get one of his creations!


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Saturday is better for me, oh yea,,, MDF is domestic isn't it


----------



## bunkie (Oct 13, 2009)

"I'm just waiting for some one to complain that this is improper for this forum."

It's not going to be me, this is pretty cool.

Good luck to both of you, I expect we'll be suitably blown away by the work.


----------



## saddletramp (Mar 6, 2011)

Sumpy, I've got to give you a lot of credit for excepting the challenge. There is no way that I would have, not even to own a Charles Neil piece. You are going to get your butt whipped like a stepchild. ;^)) But maybe not, stranger things have happened. Hang in there, you never know, it could snow in hell in July. ;^))


----------



## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Good luck to both of you!


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Ok- With Charles' permission, I changed the deadline above to Saturday November 5th.

I am sure the fact that he is who he is will be a major factor. I mean, who'll to vote for some circus clown over Charles Neil in a head to head contest? Maybe I should try and talk him into not revealing who made which project until AFTER the judging has been done?


----------



## Justin57 (Jul 16, 2009)

The lengths some people will go to, to own a piece built by Charles Neil…..


----------



## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

thats a good idea stumpy…...i think it should be that way…really…...good luck to you both, well some need luck…some dont….....lol,,,i think we know who that is


----------



## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

Now that is a great idea, StumpyNubs. That would level the field (at least where you are standing). ;=)


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

not a problem on the judging,, "whateva" pretty much suits me,,


----------



## Gerry1 (Jul 12, 2009)

Charles, just sneak up on it…..........


----------



## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

Stumpy, don't forget to double check for the made in china sticker on the bottom of your project.


----------



## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

This is great.
For those of you interested I have for sale "Go Charles" and "Go Stumpy" badges to show your support of the event. I also have Tee shirts in the works in white and black - the white ones are for Charles with the slogan "Hail Neil" and the Black one for Stumpy with the slogan "Whining is all that Matters" - oops sorry about the spelling error.
I also have tubes of saw dust confetti to throw at the winner. It is available in a single lumber type dust or a mutli-dust version which includes various exotic lumber dusts.

I have also been in contact with certain manufacturers to donate prizes for each contestant.
SawStop has offered their best table saw and a pamphlet on Crochet work for dummies.
Expedia is giving away 2 vacations, one in Hawaii, the other a round trip Greyhound adventure tour to Buffalo.
Kimberly - Clark is giving 2 case of Depends, one is for incontinence, the other for #2 surprises.

I'm still asking other companies for prizes, stay tuned.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Keep on it Roger- I'm counting on you..

I amended the rules above to say the judging will be done without names attached to the projects until after a winner is declared. Thanks for giving me that one, Charles. It was my only hope. And if I beat you, I promise not to rub it in… (I'm actually a nicer guy than my previous comments on the other thread made me appear


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

I hope you do beat me, it should be easy,, these [email protected]#% roofing nails are not working out real well in this MDF..


----------



## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Hey, *Roger*, how about sending me a box of those Depends. I have a feeling I'm going to need one of those if I find out that this whole thread is for real. ;-|


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I'm sure MDF will look nice with that dye you plan on using….

Helluva- Oh, it's for real all right!


----------



## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

I'll do my best Stumpy, this is serious business, I hope you have started your training routines. Don't forget, no partying, limited sex, eat healthy and don't let her make you overdo do it with housework. Avoid little blue pills - you don't want to stand in the corner for 4 hours, do you. Above all else be mindful that there LJs out there who are not in your corner and may try to disrupt your training and focus by posting some crazy political or religious items. Don't fall for that one.


----------



## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

WOW Sales of the LJ Event of the Year products I'm making have gone through the roof.
Man, who said it was hard making money at woodworking???? May launch an IPO.


----------



## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

*Charles*, I heard that you're suppose to soak the MDF in water before you drive nails into it. You also need to dip the nails in a jar of vaseline. It causes less friction and is easier on the MDF. I can't remember where I read these tips but if it keeps causing you problems you might give it a try.


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

its for real.. and hopefully fun for all, now to find my "chrome " dye,,


----------



## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

helluvawreck: I'll send you some of mine, I was saving them for the Super Bowel - oops my speeling IS bad.
I'm worried about Stumpy, I think he may have bitten off more than he can chew, and I'm prepared for him to announce he's leaving a day before the judging.


----------



## saddletramp (Mar 6, 2011)

Wreck and Charles, the soaking the MDF in water and using vaseline are very good ideas but, if you forgo the vaseline and bypass the K-Y jelly and go straight to Astroglide, you won't have to soak the MDF.


----------



## rustynails (Jun 23, 2011)

What about steroid testing to make sure no one is cheating?


----------



## rustynails (Jun 23, 2011)

..


----------



## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Yeah saddle, but with using K-Y it will come together pretty well.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Ok guys, this is a family site…


----------



## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Wow, that went south fast.

I actually am looking forward to this showdown. I like the idea of hiding the maker on the item. I will commend Charles and Stumpy for doing this. It appears that both have taken the high road, and that is not often easy to do.

Well done, both of you.


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

he he he a good thing Shane, I are south,, ever seen a box made out of grits,,, hand tight,,

oh yea, some dude was making comments about my grammer not being good, well I guess not, she passed away about 20 years ago at the young age of 99… !


----------



## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

I think the rules should have included the material had to come from used wooden pallets.
That would level the playing field.


----------



## YanktonSD (Jun 21, 2011)

Let's just make sure there are no hanging chads or any voting fraud on November 5th.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Limiting it do any domestic species is good enough. Pallet wood is exotic. So are grits.

Well, I'd better get to the shop and build a workbench so I can start hammering something together on it!


----------



## Justin57 (Jul 16, 2009)

Maybe both pieces should be donated to LJ's for some kind of charity auction


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Nah- I want to see my piece, covered with dust, sitting on Charles Neil's workshop shelf in the background in one of his videos someday.


----------



## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Does it have to be your own design? If not then ask britboxmaker to help you design one….the guy is a wiz making boxes.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

There's nothing in the rules that says it has to be an original design, but since it will be judged on things like "originality", etc, I think I will design my own. Thanks anyway.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I may not have the experience of Charles, but I have to say, I feel pretty confident now that we will be judging without names attached to the entries. I think I can hold my own with just about anybody on a small project.

Now, don't ask me to make a Bombe secretary or anything like that. I'll leave the fine furniture to Charles and Tommy.


----------



## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Now, don't ask me to make a Bombe secretary or anything like that. I'll leave the fine furniture to Charles and Tommy.

Ok, I know I am going to get flamed for this, but I would not count you out even on a big project. It is one thing to *copy* a Bombe or secretary desk (regardless of how complicated they are) another to design and make something beautiful and fresh. There are a few of guys on this forum who have that talent, for example check out the projects by Castlewerks, aviad87, Britboxmaker, and a couple of other members that I cannot recall their names. Design and execution is different from execution by itself….IMO.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I don't think you should worry about getting "flamed" for that. It's entirely correct.

The perfect woodworker (which I am not) would have several separate and equally rare talents. The ability to design a unique piece with perfect form. The ability to "see" the wood grain and use it to the most aesthetically pleasing end. The skills to make a piece durable with accurate and tight joinery. And the ability to apply a perfectly smooth and flawless finish.

Of course, this little contest is not a proper indication of anyone's skills in any of these areas. It's just for fun, and in the end, I don't think any of Charles' customers are going to say - maybe I should go with Stumpy Nubs, he sure made a nice remote control cabinet/box!


----------



## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Stumpy, lets get serious…get out to the shop, and get cracking. Put the keyboard and mouse down. Pick out some fine wood and jump in. Come on man, it will take some serious shop time to compete, maybe a couple versions. Dont wait till the day before to design it! : )


----------



## JJohnston (May 22, 2009)

Too bad the contest isn't for "taking the longest to get to the point in your video". THAT would be an epic battle, with both of you tied for the championship!


----------



## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Charles asked if MDF is an exotic wood? LOL Best of luck o you both.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

That's funny, JJ- almost like a joke! Keep trying, you'll get there…


----------



## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

LJ post…*student of Charles Neil.*..better get crackin' Stumpy !!
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/55169


----------



## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Really….it's on his web page blog. Maybe you should rule out mdf, He uses it for everything!


----------



## Justin57 (Jul 16, 2009)

The perfect woodworker (which I am not) would have several separate and equally rare talents. The ability to design a unique piece with perfect form. The ability to "see" the wood grain and use it to the most aesthetically pleasing end. The skills to make a piece durable with accurate and tight joinery. And the ability to apply a perfectly smooth and flawless finish.

whether you realize it or not….......you've just described Charles Neil


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

We all know who Justin's rooting for! Hey Justin- If I win will you be taking one of MY classes? I can teach you to do some amazing things with a hot glue gun and I wack the bad students with a yard stick…


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Sherri Here…...it's been good to see Lumberjocks putting a smile on Charles' face for a change! This morning he sat down and designed his 'remote control box' and will get on it Wednesday or Thursday. He has a Finishing Class at our shop starting today and ends Saturday afternoon. Monday and Tuesday we film the 'Mastering Woodworking' show for Thursday's broadcast and he has a client coming in on Wednesday to preview some pieces and pick out his stain/dye and then Charles can get started.

I do have a logistic question, how are the photos going to be posted without identifying the piece by the poster? and how many photos? so all details and craftsmanship can be viewed? Just askin'.

Stumpy, can you send the dimensions of your remote? wouldn't want it not to fit in the box! LOL!


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Sherri- I'll PM you before the deadline to work out the logistics. I think we will start one thread in this forum with both projects shown one below the other. I can take care of it for you. We don't want too many photos (4-6 for each project at the most), but it would be a good idea to take pictures that properly show the things on which the piece will be judged. For example, a closeup of the joinery, etc. You can also write a description of the piece to be included with the photos, highlighting certain aspects that may be important to the judging. I will post both projects on the same thread just as you present it.

Glad to see Charles is not still upset at my unfortunate comments before, I really didn't mean them.

My remote is 9" long and 2" wide. Of course the box or small cabinet can hold anything you'd want at hand on an end table- remote, TV guide, book, coasters, spare change, etc. He doesn't have to limit himself to just a little remote box, unless that's what he wants to do. My entry will hold a variety of small items.

Also, have him sign it on the bottom before he puts on the finish. I'm sure he'll want me to autograph his too!


----------



## mb_BeachBum (Apr 23, 2007)

Doc,

MDF is quite popular - in Tucson anyways! I watched every piece Charles made out of MDF snatched up at the end of each class, some were even signed by the craftsman himself! Too bad the same guy didn't get the cabriole leg and the scooped chair seat, would have been interesting seeing that chair come together…


----------



## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

This is a *GREAT *idea. I look forward to the voting. I especially like the Blind entry. Not knowing who built each one is a good idea. You might also BOTH do your photography on similar backgrounds so as to not give away any clues.

I can see more of this coming down the pike on LJ with other members.


----------



## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

@rance, re: "more of this coming down the pike"...

How about Mads vs. Marcou on a breadbox ? Yeah, the Madscou Matchup ! ;=)


----------



## Pdub (Sep 10, 2009)

Looking forward to this guys! Can't wait to see the finished projects. Good luck to both of you!


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Have you SEEN the price of MDF these days! It's too expensive for me. I make stuff out of 2X4's as often as possible!


----------



## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

I have a suggestion. If you are going to include written descriptions, you might want to agree on a third person to take what each of you writes and rewrite it in a consistent style. Then include only these rewritten descriptions in the posting.


----------



## DamnYankee (May 21, 2011)

I'm looking forward to the voting.

I really like the blind voting.

On one hand I think the "third party edit" idea takes it out of the "For Fun" category, but on the other, you two have very different writing styles so you might want to consider it. Or not.

Is this the LJ verion of "Pro vs Joes"?

I predict the winner will be the one with the most votes.


----------



## saddletramp (Mar 6, 2011)

DYankee wrote: "I predict the winner will be the one with the most votes." Thats a pretty safe bet Yank.

I predict that the winner will be (insert dramatic prolonged drumroll) Charles, but then, I've never really liked Stumpy anyways. ;^)))

Of course, what do I know (obviously not very damn much), Stumpy could pull a rabbit out of his stocking cap.


----------



## saddletramp (Mar 6, 2011)

Dang Stumpy, I have really missed picking on you since that other tread was pulled.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Saddle- And I miss being picked on! But don't count me out. I'm a natural born woodworker.

I think we have enough rules, no need for anything else. I don't think the writing styles of the two of us are all that different. We both like to make wise cracks and sawdust.

Woodworking styles, on the other hand…


----------



## Justin57 (Jul 16, 2009)

"We all know who Justin's rooting for! Hey Justin- If I win will you be taking one of MY classes? I can teach you to do some amazing things with a hot glue gun and I wack the bad students with a yard stick…

-Putting the laughter back into manslaughter…"

Of course I'm rooting for Charles….duh! He's been a mentor to me for over a year. I don't know YOU or any project(s) you've built so "don't take this personal"...I "see" someone that likes attention and doesn't mind insulting someone just to get it…and based on the refusal to donate the pieces to charity and also telling Sherri to be sure that Charles signs his piece, I see someone that's going to great lengths to get a piece built by Charles Neil. Your choice to verbally attack someone you don't know, and do it in a public forum removes any credibility you could have in my opinion so don't worry about holding a spot for me in one of your classes. )


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*Justin*- Did you see Katdaddy's comment above and decide you wanted to ruin things? This has been a nice thread up to your comment.

You seriously think this little bit of fun Charles and I decided to enjoy is worth setting up some sort of charity auction and finding a worthwhile cause to give the money to? For one thing, this was never intended to take a month's worth of effort. And secondly, who is going to want to buy an item made by me, a discredited wannabe as you've labeled me? Besides, we're not talking thousand dollar highboys here. It's a couple of boxes…

I made a failed attempt at humor at Charles' expense* one time*. I apologized both personally to him, and publicly on several occasions. It was simply a couple of poorly chosen words in an effort to get a laugh from one of my fellow LJs, nothing more. I think, and I have always thought, that Charles is a great guy. I assume every time you say something you shouldn't have YOU apologize again and again and again and then forfeit all future credibility for yourself?

*You can't IMAGINE some of this things I've been called on this website* when I was entirely new here and had NEVER insulted anyone. I was attacked in the most vulgar ways because my workshop photos showed too many tools! (Yes, no joke!) I never got any apologies, never demanded any, and I don't even remember who those people were anymore. People say dumb things once in a while. At least most of us. I wonder what you will do the next time you say something you wish you could take back and somebody treats it like you called for the return of slavery or told the Pope to drop dead…

*If it will make you feel better I will be happy to send you an autograph too. Just let me get out my sharpie…*


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Ok enough everyone, while this whole thing was born out of not the most favorable circumstances, it has ,unlike any other thread I have ever seen like this, hatched out to be a really good thing, and it has alot of promise to become a continuing and enjoyable venue , I agree I hit Stumpy pretty hard,, and I am sorry for that, but that is what anger does to any of us, not a good thing , but that is over and done , and Stumpy and I have found a good sound mutual ground to have some fun, and your invited, so sit back, make jokes and enjoy this, and I dont give a "RAT's BUTT" who wins, so please just take a chill pill and lets have some fun , how about it, and stumpy dont have time to bicker, and debate, he has work to do, Im already on mine,, so let the guy get to work,,


----------



## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

may the best two woodworkers win

and thanks for having us 
to enjoy your works

great idea guys


----------



## spunwood (Aug 20, 2010)

good luck, I'll be watching


----------



## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Well said Charles. Maybe you guys could auction off the pieces, and contribute the money to the people providing support services to returning veterans. They are woodworkers too.

Don,

Wow, a signed piece of MDF.

Stuppy, Ive seen your projects, ain't bad dude.


----------



## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Stumpy


----------



## 58j35bonanza (Jan 11, 2011)

I hope you win, I really mean that. 
Go get him.


----------



## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

I like underdogs, so I'm rooting for the loser!


----------



## saddletramp (Mar 6, 2011)

Me too Steve.

*GO STUMPY* LMAO


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Hey! wait a minute…


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Well, I got the sketchup design almost finished. (I always like to build it in Sketchup first, saves me errors in the shop) I'll start milling the wood Saturday. I'm in the middle of a bench project that I need to get out of the way before I can actually start on this. Glad I have a week! I went to Woodcraft yesterday to pick up some hinges (which they didn't have) and they said "Charles who?"


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I wonder if Charles is cutting any dovetails… I better try and make these butt joints tighter…


----------



## Kindlingmaker (Sep 29, 2008)

Hey guys! Don't sign with a Sharpie pen, it only lasts so long, (see the Sharpie website). Use India Ink and it will last nearly forever even in the sun.
Gentlemen you have really done a wondrous thing here! To you both, good luck and happy sawdust!


----------



## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

I can already see the headlines: "*Neil is Stumped*"


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I like that one, Roger. Sounds better than the alternative: *"Stumpy is Chucked!"*


----------



## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

What about: *Neil on his knees?*


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Maybe not.


----------



## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Hey we can even make a tongue twister… *Stumpy stomped Charles when he was stumped by a Stumpy box*...


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*Neil's the Real Deal: Stumps Stumpy to the Nubs.*


----------



## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Showdown results: *Neil out Boxed*


----------



## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

or* Neil boxed in*


----------



## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Latest merchandise on sale for epic event: Charles and Stump figurines.

*Charles Neil figurine* is hand carved from exotic lumber with exquisite detail and finished beautifully with a high gloss finish.
*Stump figurine* is made of pallet wood in the style of Roy Underwood, hand finished with an axe and finished with 3 coats of barn paint.

Both figurines are available from; *The Trophy Mint* for $29.95 (Plus S&H) - gets your's today, stocks are limited to the first 33,000 callers.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Roy's out of jail now? Glad to see him back on his feet.

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/30832


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

:0


----------



## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

Dood, you're crackin' me up.


----------



## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

Roy's helping you ? FOUL !!! ;=)


----------



## Lim (Oct 28, 2011)

My Fellow Woodworkers,
I have known Charles Neil for several years. He is my mentor and my friend. He is one of the most giving and gracious people I have ever known. 
My father's side of the family is southern (South Georgia) and I consider myself, for the most part, a southern boy. My kinfolk talk very much like Charles, which may be why I connect with him on so many levels. He reminds me so much of my roots and the people I love so dearly. I've had the pleasure of spending time in his shop and just like the hours I spent peering up at my grandpa's workbench, I always leave mystified and stupefied at the lessons I learned.
My Grandpa was a successful farmer, carpenter, gunsmith, furniture maker and all around jack-of-all-trades. He talked like Charles. His education came from learning the art and the trade on his own. Making mistakes and learning from those mistakes honed his skills to the level of master woodworker. He spoke with authority and when he taught you how to do something, he often took the longest route possible. I'm sorry, but that is the southern way. Instruction is often peppered with stories about people and events. If you were the recipient of this teaching and weren't paying careful attention, you could easily miss some valuable nuggets of sage advice that came from years of real world testing. 
I should mention that when my grandfather passed away at the age of 98, over 300 people attended his wake from southern Georgia and northern Florida. Many of the attendees were simple folk, farmers, carpenters and such, but many were doctors, lawyers, and wealthy landowners. No one ever mentioned how he spoke or his lack of formal education. All were there pay their respects to a true master craftsman.
If you want to get caught up in how a person speaks or the way they dress, that is your prerogative. If you want to learn from their tried and true experience burnished over time, then you must learn to listen. Only then, can you benefit from the sage advice that is galvanized over many years of fire and brimstone.
I say all of this to let you know that my friend, Charles Neil is a true woodworker's teacher. He cares a great deal that his lessons take you to a level that you might only learn from years of hard knocks. When I am with him in the shop, there is no question that he wants me to get it and he will do what ever he can to make sure that happens. I can't think of a better description of a teacher.
On another note, Charles has a birthday coming up on November 4th (He will kill me for posting this!!). If you want to send him happy wishes, send him a note on his blog.


----------



## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Lim, you need to add that he has a great sense of humor to round it all off.


----------



## Lim (Oct 28, 2011)

Rex, you are right on the money! There is a lot of jokes and laughter in the shop!


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Lim- Welcome to Lumber Jocks. You may have joined just to make that post, but you'll soon become an addict like the rest of us…


----------



## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

I'll second that! It's really all about the wood? Nice post.


----------



## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Lim, thanks for sharing those words. I'm looking forward to this battle between combatants, both of whom I admire.


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

signed,, never saw signed as part of the rules,, we will see, but very doubtful , box is about done, limited it to 6 hours build and 2 finishing, .,.,, by the way Stumpy, what name do you use to sign your work,, I use my own,, ????

If the boxes were going to charity , I would definately sign,, I still think this is the best thing to do with them,, Just my .02 , actually I think we should select a charity, or simlpy let the proceeds help fund LJ's and auction them right here,, I don tthink something like this should be done for personal gain, What say you JIm, aka Stumpy, or "whateva"


> ?


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

The signature thing was a joke. You'll notice I also said I am sure you want MY autograph in the same sentence. You need not sign it if you don't want to.

I sign my work with my real name- James Hamilton.

I'm very honored that you'd spend eight hours of your very valuable time on a contest with me! Can't wait to see it!

Perhaps if we can set a minimum price we can figure out a way to auction them off and let the proceeds go to Lumber Jocks. I would hate to spend all this time away from other work and sell the box for only $10, which won't really help out Lumber Jocks. (I am sure yours will bring a lot more, but who the heck am I that someone would want the box?) That was my only problem with the charity thing.


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

10.00 is 10.00 they didn't have before, I like LJ and Wounded Warriors, .,.. any other suggestions,, maybe some thing direct and secure for kids or animals, Xmas is coming, kids and stuff,, heart before $,,, how I like to roll, y'all decide, I got work to do,, but , again, I dont care, just think some worthwhile cause ,beat's personal gain,, so again, Stumpy , you good to go on whatever charity the LJ's here decide, I am..


----------



## RBWoodworker (Mar 22, 2009)

I'm watching all this with great interest, and Stumpy..have you even started your box? I see you here all the time and not sure if your going to have the time to produce anything significant, but I could be wrong..I know Charles has made something extraordinaire and should be a hit with the viewers.. I'm hoping to see that you'd be giving him a run for his money..


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Let me wrap up a couple things here in the shop and I'll get back to you. I prefer Lumber Jocks because their forum is where we are holding this little contest. We'll have to work out the logistics, but it shouldn't be difficult. I have a couple of ideas.

This has NEVER been about getting a "Charles Neil Piece" as some have accused. I suppose that's what happens when people think you are not qualified to take on a master, which I am not, so its understandable. For me this has been about having a great time and pushing myself to do my best, knowing I'll have to if I don't want to get embarrassed here.

*RB*- I have a computer on my workbench because I use sketchup for all my work. I occasionally check in when I take breaks. I'm working on several things at the moment, as I'm sure Charles is too. But the box is my top priority, and it is coming along…


----------



## RBWoodworker (Mar 22, 2009)

Cool..glad to hear..


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

dont PM, do it here, all open,..I like that,, lets rock and roll, so LJ it is, A good choice,,


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Great post Lim

I know for a fact that Charles is giving and generous person giving of his time and money.

Just because someone talks with what I call a down home accent does not mean their uneducated .

I agree it would be great to donate the pieces to charity and wounded Warriors is a good one LJs makes plenty off of it's ads. By donating it,it proves stumpmaster aka James is not trying to get a Charles Neil piece for free like he says he's no trying to do above.
All said and done it's up to you guys


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Stumpy , don't be upset over having to give the boxes to a good cause, I have some special gifts for you, that I will send seperate.
I however do have a question, I have some delightful southern delicacies , I had planned to include in your package, the question, do you want it sent frozen or in a cage,, .,.. been feeding it for a week, your call ?


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Why would you think I would be upset? I have said the exact opposite. In fact, if you go back and read my remarks when the charity issue first came up, the only objection I raised was that this wasn't supposed to be a big deal, with an auction and finding a charity, etc. I said that because of the demand on YOUR time and effort, not mine. I would be fine making this as big a deal as you like, we can do it once a year for charity if you want! 

Caged is fine. I have hens and rabbits here at my shop. If you like I'll autograph one on the beak and ship it to you express!


----------



## BreakingBoardom (Dec 18, 2009)

Go for in the cage. Fresher is always better!


----------



## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

My vote is for wounded warriors as it is a great cause. I'm seeing 138 posts on this so far


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

If we're going to sell them for a cause, I must insist on Lumber Jocks. (Charles has already agreed with that.) I have nothing against helping to support families like those involved with Wounded Warriors, but I owe my education in large part to LJs, and this whole thing wouldn't be happening without their forums. If we were talking a million bucks here, I'd look for a nonprofit. But this is small potatoes…

LJs is also a good idea because of the logistics. We can have bids placed on the projects in their forum, arrange payment from the winners through PMs, and LJs moderators will be able to attest to the fact (perhaps in the newsletter) that they did actually receive the money.


----------



## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Whatever works for you guys. I know Charles supports wounded warriors.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*CHARLES- Here's how we can do it…*

On Saturday afternoon we post the projects as planned. People will be asked to BOTH judge AND, if the like, bid on them. The highest bidder on each box will be contacted after the auction by the boxes maker (Charles or me) and arrange payment and shipping through our workshops. The winning bids will also have the actual cost of shipping added to them so that LJs gets the full amount of the bid. Charles and I will not take any of the money for our time or materials. Once the transactions are completed and the items shipped, we will both donnate the money to LJs through their current donation setup. Then someone from LJs can post int he newsletter a confirmation that they got the money so nobody can later accuse anyone of foolishness. (I've already been accused of all sorts of things over this…)

Here's a couple of the issues to be settled for the above situation to work.

1. The judging is done without names. If the bidding is done at the same time, people won't know if they are bidding on a Charles Neil piece, or a James Hamilton piece. That may or may not be a problem. Surely they would bid more for Charles' work, but if they don't know, will they bid more? Or will they bid less?

2. Having the bidding at the same time as the judging is important to get the largest exposure for the auction because more people will tune into the judging thread than the bidding thread. Hopefully some of those people will bid on impulse.

3. Perhaps we could include a certificate with both items signed by both of us authenticating the items as having come from this event. That way both boxes come with a Charles Neil autograph, and the far more valuable, James Hamilton autograph. Charles can sign his item if he wants, or not.

Charles, any objections or additions?


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Stumpy,, send me one of those hens, Got a rooster, he would love to say hello,, sign the beak,, ( photos to follow folks ) In no time we will be cooking eggs with the "yeller runnin" ( southern style with grits ) , and in exchange , I will give this "ole boy' some corn and fatten him up.. as long as you get past his disposition , you will be good, ( oh yea, welders gloves and a 30-06 are reccomended cooking utensils )


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

YEEEEEEEEEE HAWWW Love it.


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Stumpy, I will have my people contact your people right here on all the above, donation issues,, I am off to give the rooster some pointers,, and tell him of his forth coming "new arrival" , hope he dont wake me up at 2am from excitement, he does get worked up ya know,,..

OK folks, others have legit questions and comments, I will be posting a box of some sort on Saturday, so I will let this rest till then,, ,, Stumpy get to work, and I hope you win, BTW, I have 2 boxes, and depending on how serious you took this , would have been the determining factor, which box I presented, now that it benefits LJ, not an issue, don't care about win or lose, hope it helps LJ,, would be nice to see some others join in, any takers,, its a great cause,, LumberJocks,, and a new venue to help support it,,

see y'all Saturday


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*Charles*- I'm surprised you would have entered anything less than your very best into the contest! A secondary project? Now if I win everybody is going to think I beat you simply because you held back! Are you trying to hedge your bet? Setting up an excuse for a possible defeat? 

I know you are far more experienced than I, and there's no doubt about who is the better woodworker. I wouldn't have a chance if we were making a more challenging project than we are. But I DO intend to beat you soundly. I may not have the credentials, I may not have the following, I may not even own a proper dovetail saw. But I can tell you this, I wouldn't go up against you without bringing the best I have to offer, and I think some may be surprised. After all, you yourself once was a no-name newby woodworker, weren't you?

*As for others joining in… not this time. *When you challenged me you said I could choose the project and the rules. I am happy to bend on the charity thing, but I am not giving up my one opportunity to test myself against a woodworker of your stature, mono e mono. I opened my big mouth in the other thread, now I get a chance to let others decide if I am just a wisecracker or at least some sort of pathetic woodworker in my own right. Let's finish what we started and then, if you want to take on the entire Lumber Jocks community for whatever charity you like, I'll be the very first one to support you.


----------



## ETwoodworks (Jan 10, 2011)

Stumpy I am betting you are both a big mouth and a darn fine woodworker in your own right 
If there was a woodworking contest on LJ's to benifet say wounded warriors many would love to join in the fun.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Perhaps next time, Eric. I'd be happy to do this again another time and open it up to as many as who would like to be involved. I think Charles would like that too.


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Stump
You must have been hiding all this talent all this time with only one project on Ljs . If you have done other projects why not post them I know we love to see them here or a link to your web site? It's not good to hide your candle under a bush ) 
All I know given the challenge the time involved in building and finishing this project I would bet on Charles over all of the talents out there even TV personalities that have their own woodworking shows. and any on line folks too. I doubt that *ANY* of them would take such a challenge from Charles, So my guess is either your very good or you have one giant ego.
In the end the proof will be in the projects. I'd wish you luck but you will need much more than that to beat Charles.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*Jim*- Just because somebody like me accepts a challenge from someone like Charles doesn't mean I actually believe I'm a better woodworker, or even that I have a legitimate chance at winning. You accept the challenge because opportunities like that don't come along often. My ego is not inflated at all.* I might make a lot of jokes on these threads, but you will never see me bragging about my skills or putting down the skills of others aside from the occasional bit of good natured ribbing.* In fact I have been (more than a few times) the first, some times only one to encourage a new woodworker who posts a painfully imperfect project on these forums.

I would never have challenged Charles. But since he challenged me, I think i would have been a fool not to accept, even if it means getting destroyed. When someone like that gives you a chance to have your work critiqued next to his, you just plain ol' accept…

-Jim


----------



## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm looking forward to the postings!


----------



## HawkDriver (Mar 11, 2011)

Stump, I agree. Getting destroyed by Charles Neil is better than no contest at all. I do hope you give it your all and I look forward to seeing both yours and Charles projects! If you're trading projects at the end, then that is just the icing on the cake.


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

James
I guess different people think differently about things like this, being in my 60s I've had enough unintended embarrassing moments in my life with out creating more for myself at least intentionally. Assuming your younger than me I guess you still need to fill your most embarrassing moment quota . I'm sure you will give this challenge your best effort.


----------



## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Hey guys,

I'm in Jim's age bracket, and have often put my foot in my mouth ( mistakes?) I use to use sarcasum as a form of humor, but it iwas often at someones expense. I think this will be great for stimulating woodworking. I also think Stump (James) has some creative ideas, and a different twist on things. So did George Carlan and Steve Martin? They refined their humor, as I'm sure Stumpfy will too?

Hopefully we will see some great efforts.

Gotta go back to making a living.


----------



## willd (Mar 9, 2011)

Let the building begin!


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Will,???? begin,, !!!!!!!!!!!!!, Im done, now for some kerosense and blo , ( joke).. might throw a little poly and roofing tar in the finish as well. ( not hardly) so now its finish it, I might be able to come up" wiff sumpin",


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Keep the details to yourself, Charles… wouldn't want to give any clues about which box is wich before the judging…


----------



## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Knowing charles he just sprayed it in the finishing room.


----------



## RiverWood (Nov 4, 2010)

stumpy. remember this quote from chucky. "The guys over at American Woodworker , a forum whos sole purpose is to bring attention and helop support the Wounded Warrior program" and then think if he would be honest about making something himself. In my opinion anyone who lies about our troops will lie about anything


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

What the heck are you talking about, RiverWood?


----------



## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

How's episode 2 coming along, Stumps? Are you gonna tie this into the plot somehow?


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

yes , River exactly what do you mean, if your refering to me, we fly our Wounded Warrior Banner on our site and also are quite active in fundraising for the program, also support out troops wholeheartly


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Riverwood did a "drive by", I think.


----------



## Belg1960 (Jan 3, 2010)

The anticipation for the pics is killing me, a great way to mend fences as they say. But if you read all the comments I think you guys have let the cat out of the bag for the blind voting. Stump you said your making a small cabinet and Charles said he's making a remote control box I believe this info is enough to make a determination of which project belongs to who??? My suggestion would be told ask Debbie to send out a special site wide email announcing the contest and vote, this way you can draw folks from the sister forums like the gardeners, home refurb folks to also bid on the projects for charity.

Charles just wanted to say thanks for the many how to videos, I have watched a lot of them. Always enjoy them and learn something in the process. I was wondering if I have a question about something in the videos is it better to ask on the you tube comments section or here on LJ's.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*Belg*- The rules say it can be a small cabinet or box but they must both be designed to hold a remote control and whatever else a person may want on an end table. I have not revealed what I am making. However, your post will certainally mess this whole thing up. Would you mind editing that out for the sake of fair play? If this turns into a bunch of speculation about which box is made by which maker it will definitely skew the voting and may even decrease the bidding!

I am in communication with the LJ staff about this contest/charity auction and am awaiting their decision on how they may or may not be involved.

How do you guys like the new avatar and signature? Time to freshen things up, and I thought old sam Maloof could give me some inspiration these days…


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Belg, you can post questions in either place, or email me direct, emails are easier, for me,

[email protected] always glad to help if I can


----------



## Pdub (Sep 10, 2009)

*Stumpy*- I didn't realize it was you. New avatar really threw me off. This is gonna take time to get used to! Can't wait till Sat.


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Good luck on the challange.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Its a nice thing , that now all the proceeds will got to benifit, the chosen charities, LJ elected for all proceeds to go to our respective charities, hats off to LJ and the parent company,


----------



## zzzzdoc (Mar 6, 2010)

Good luck, guys. I can't wait to see the finished products. And best of all, worthwhile charities are the real winners.


----------



## Rob_n_Wood (Mar 25, 2009)

Well Stumps I will give you an "A" for effort 
But on how smart that was …......WELLLLL we will See 
Good Luck your gonna need against Mr Neil

Rob


----------



## Lim (Oct 28, 2011)

Hey Folks,
Just a reminder that tomorrow (Friday) is Charles Neil's birthday. You can make a post here or at [email protected] I know he would appreciate hearing from you.


----------



## ShopTinker (Oct 27, 2010)

I'm with Stumpy on his accepting the challenge. To win would be awesome, to come in 2nd to Charles would be pretty darn great. If it goes that way Stumpy, you can tell the story the way my Dad would have.

"I entered a box building contest on LJ's and I took second place. The only box that beat me was the one made by Charles Neil." Then when someone asked how many boxes were in the contest he would have laughed and said "Only two, but second place is still second place.!"

Good Luck to you both!


----------



## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

well, I step away from LJ's for a few weeks and come back to find the most epic battle since…well, I'm not really sure…but I'm sure looking forward to the results.


----------



## mmh (Mar 17, 2008)

All right guys! Into your corners and come out sanding!


----------



## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

ShopTinker-that's great and with that in mind, Stumpy can't lose!


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

he he he , am I the only one here having fun,, win lose or draw, this has been fun,, a good thing,


----------



## saddletramp (Mar 6, 2011)

I'm having fun Charles, I get a kick out of needling Stumpy (only because I know he's a great guy and doesn't mind the needling). I think this is a great idea and I hope you fight to a standstill (draw).


----------



## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

It's a little like listening to politicians. But better because you guys ( Stumpfy, Charles) can deliver on what you are talking about. People are supporting their favorite candidate, and I hope someting good will come of this for both of you. And for some deserving people.


----------



## Lim (Oct 28, 2011)

You can post birthday wishes for Charles Neil at the address below.
http://intheworkshop.wordpress.com/2011/11/04/its-happy-birthday-charles-day/#comments


----------



## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

This is a real breath of fresh air coming through the LJ website. Good on both Stumpy (Jim) and Charles!


----------



## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

I have been waiting for 2 days the projects were supposed to be here 2 days ago what gives


----------



## schuft (Apr 6, 2011)

They started a new thread for the contest here:

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/31562


----------

