# What is your definition of "conventional lumber"?



## millzit (Feb 5, 2012)

I have heard this term all my life. I just looked a project here that is made of poplar and the maker says he uses only 'conventional lumber'. That got me to thinking so I searched for a long time on the net for a definition for 'conventional lumber'. So far, I haven't found one. I found a definition for 'conventional' and a definition for 'lumber', but the two does not go together! Found lots of references from highly educated people to 'conventional lumber' but no explanation as to what 'conventional lumber' is. Is 'conventional lumber' categorized by wood type or usage? Is conventional lumber pine, fir, etc…...or oak, cherry, walnut? Is conventional lumber what you would build a deck from or a vanity? I say there are only two types of lumber, construction/structural lumber and woodworking lumber…......any thoughts on this? I could build a deck from oak and a vanity from pine….....so, what is '*conventional lumber*'?


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

Hey, that was my project! (here)
I aspire to use mostly reclaimed and upcycled lumber (hence the name SalvageCraft). So to me, conventional lumber is straight from the tree to the sawyer to the kiln to the lumber dealer, or equivalent. True, this is not a black and white definition, as there are plenty of sustainable milling operations out there that strive to make the best use of urban wood or utilize other more sustainable logging practices that I would consider very near to, if not upcycling. But the wood in question is more generic store bought stuff (though it is domestic!).

I still do take requests for what I call conventional lumber, as I figure if someone wants it and I can't talk them into going with reclaimed, they'll just have someone else do it (or worse yet, go to the store and get something chintzy), so I'm not saving the world anyway by turning down that job.

Also, I'm not trying to put down saywers or lumber dealers, I'm just passionate about reusing what I can and love the patinas and time-earned wear marks on reclaimed wood.

I also mill some of my own lumber from storm damaged or sick local trees. The city I'm in has a nasty practice of mulching every bit of wood it takes down - and much of this ends up going into landfills because they can't find enough uses for it! So, I consider the use of this wood as upcycling too, even though it is straight from the tree.

I'm interested to hear if there are other definitions of "conventional lumber" out there.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

It is an imprecise term at best, but generally I think people use it to refer to home center lumber.


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## millzit (Feb 5, 2012)

...and a nice project it was too! the term just got me to thinking…....so, now what is 'upcycled'? never heard that term.


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## canadianchips (Mar 12, 2010)

It could be a term used for common size lumber. 2×4 from lumber yard or sheet goods 3/4" plywood, etc.
Usually when building furniture or cabinets the material is "Milled" (jointed or planed ) to the desired dimensions.
Another example: A carpenter uses conventional lumber…..... A cabinet maker uses Milled lumber.


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

@Millzit - Thanks! "upcycled" typically means something along the lines of repurposing something for a greater use (for example, constructing a project in such a way that you can use materials that would normally go straight to the landfill). Thus, using broken furrniture, discarded pallets, lumber from a demolition, etcetera could be considered upcycling.
I also added a broader explanation to my reply above (noting this in case you didn't see it)

@bondogaposis - I wasn't referring specifically to home center lumber (i try to steer clear of that stuff!), but it's definitely conventional to me to!

@canadianchips - That's a cool definition too! I had never considered that people might use it in that way. Perhaps I need to find a better term to describe "not-reclaimed-or-upcycled-lumber"


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## ajosephg (Aug 25, 2008)

I think Jesse's definition makes the most sense.


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## millzit (Feb 5, 2012)

so….......i have a 300bf stack of american chestnut (certified by a forrester). of course it is old barn lumber…...but wait! when the barn was built back when, we could say it was 'conventional' lumber because it was dimensional and came from a sawmill…......but i take it and re-dimensionalize it on my shop tools and make projects from it, it becomes milled lumber…...but, since it was 'salvaged' also, that makes it 'upcycled' lumber…...! so, now it would be called…... 'conventional-milled-upcycled' lumber?

getting confused yet?


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

I don't care what you call it as long as you send me a couple dozen board feet before you're done with it


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## millzit (Feb 5, 2012)

@salvagecraft…..i love it! don't matter what it's called as long as it makes sawdust…huh!


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

True enough!


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

For me, it would be common grade, generic lumber. Poplar, pine, what ever is handy, cleaned up 2×4s, common grade plywood, etc…

Millzit - If your reclaimed lumber is really barn lumber and was used as flooring or stall walls, you may want to wet it down with water and see how it smells. Some of this stuff is not really safe or healthy for "in the house" projects, if you know what I mean. If it has been a working barn for 50 years, with all of the things animals "do" on a daily basis - need I say more?


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

Good point David. There are hazards to watch out for such as mold, bacteria, insects, chemicals, lead paint… the list goes on! 
I like the suggestion of wetting the wood to see how it smells. I also test for lead, inspect for insects and try to be sure of the history of where wood such as pallets were used in their past life. I hope nobody ends up making cutting boards or salad bowls out of chemical or parasite ridden wood!


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## longgone (May 5, 2009)

conventional lumber is whatever lumber I can afford or whatever is available at the lumberyard.
I am sure the term conventional lumber varies from location to location and country to country. Lumber that is conventional here in the south is not so conventional to another part of the world.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Conventional lumber. n. English for the crap ya find at a borg.
Bill


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Hmm… Do birds crap in trees?...

FWIW, I would imagine that resurfacing old lumber will take care of those concerns. If such bad things do exist on/in the wood then I imagine that particular wood would be decayed to the point of being unusable, or need to be resurfaced 'deeper' until clean/good grain is reached. Personally, I would not let the 'yuk' factor make me throw out good wood. Just my 2-cents…


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## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

The company I work for has a mill work department (which I don't work in, but I do rub shoulders with them frequently), and the use of reclaimed and salvaged material that Jesse is referring to is all the rage.

We see reclaimed/salvaged material spec'd in by architects on retail store build-outs for many of the big name coffee shops and bistro type sandwich shops. There is quite an up-chargee associated with using reclaimed material, as the percentage of scrap is high and it can be difficult to both source and work with.

This type of material is often associated with a "Pacific Northwest, hip-vibe, modern, greenie" style… and it's quite the trend these days.

Unfortunately, I think there is probably a reasonable argument that the smaller scale (i.e. adhoc and inefficient) material stream associated with reclaimed material, consumes more energy and negates the benefit of not "slaying" trees. Lord knows that if there's an industry in North America that has been refined over the last 250 years, it's the forrest products industry, where every ounce of material, down to the saw dust is used for some productive purpose, and energy costs are managed to the penny.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of "stewardship" of the forrests, but everything in this life seems to be a trade off.

One significant ascetic bonus that comes from using reclaimed materials, is that you often reveal some beautiflul lumber that was harvested in an era before the wholesale slaughter of the landscape in the Northeast (largely for the production of charcoal). Once upon a time, 24" wide pine boards were not uncommon, and there was a lot more heartwood in the lumber from very old, slow growing, mature forrests.

Fuel for thouth…. (or at least for the wood stove :^)


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## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

"*reclaimed lumber is really barn lumber and was used as flooring or stall walls*"

Timber Framers love the stuff… but the best sources aren't old barns…. they're huge 150 year old mill buildings, with 3" thick, wide plank floors and structural timbers that blow your mind.

Years ago, I saw an add in the Timberframers Journal soliciting bids for the dismantling of an old government warehouse, which was estimated to have something like 6 million board feet of timber in it. You'd have to have quite the operation and crew to even think about bidding a job like that.


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

Mike - having lived around livestock growing up, had friends that had barns with wood floors, all stalls are wood, etc… Having mucked many stables and barns that have had many things splashed, sprayed and otherwise on this wood - which is not finished lumber, I would not want to eat a salad from it or want it for a kitchen table, just sayin.

Cutting oot a piece and putting it in warm or hot water for a couple of hours will generally tell you what has soaked in. If it smells like an old wet animal or something else that I needn't say, I wouldn't use it for anything indoors. Great doghouse material, wouldn't throw it out but it's use would be monitored.

Let me put his idea in your head. Make a couple of lamps and but them in your house. Wait for a nice warm humid day and automagically, your living room will have all of the fun smells of a barn -hmmm! Not what my wife or your customer wants.


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

@ssnvet - I have definitely seen the irony that you're talking about. I know of a company that dismantles and ships entire structures (old barns, houses, temples, etc) from around the world, mills the beams into flooring and paneling, and then ships it back out worldwide. Not quite what I would call sustainable or environmental stewardship, though it might not be as bad as the "exotic" wood market that is known for decimating virgin timbers and shipping them across the globe in pursuit of high dollars. 
Long story short: if there's enough profit in any product or practice, be it viewed as evil or saintly, someone is usually willing to lower their ethical standards to grab that cash.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

David,
I too grew up pulling calves, cleaning stalls, bailing hay, had my bout with Histo' when I was 7, etc… Truth be told, those of us who grew up in such environments have, in the long run, stronger immune systems than those who did not grow up there. And as far as old wood with old dead bacteria on it it is just that,.... DEAD.

Funny how the collective "we" will cut and build cutting boards for the kitchen and then subject them to all kinds of organics (I'm sorry, edible "food") and keep doing so for years/decades without a worry in the world. If the collective "we" can sanitize our cutting boards, why can't "we" do that with re-claimed wood/lumber? 
Hint: We can. Some of us just move beyond the yuk factor once we know the facts.

BTW, scientific research has shown that wood cutting boards are more easy to clean/sanitize than the plastic ones.


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

I grew up spending summers on my uncle's dairy farm and am not fazed by the "yuck" factor. It's not disease I'm worried so much about (although bacteria can go dormant for years without dying). However, I definitely don't want to sell someone a cutting board that might make their kitchen smell like a barn 

As far as that study, I think it's right on. I've been telling people for years that their plastic cutting boards are breeding grounds for disease. Grosses me out. I see so many people use them and then leave them sitting in standing water on their countertops. That's one yuck factor I don't want to get over.


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

Mike - Any more, reality has little to do with it - its the perception. If I were to sell something that had reclaimed lumber, the purchaser is signing a disclaimer before I build it. I don't want a lawyer knocking on my door - ever.

As for cutting boards and the like, we had an butcher in our town for a good long time, had a well used maple chopping block and used sawdust on the wood floor. The young new inpector came in and told him that he had to rip out the wood floor and put in tile, loose the sawdust, and cover the real chopping block with plastic. My friend showed the inspector the studies and he didn't care, he wanted it done or shut down. He did the work and after slipping on the tile a few times, he retired, closing a 60 year old store.

Myself, I melt bees wax (capping wax) and mineral oil into my butcher blocks, technically, they are microbaly safe for anything but if someone doesn't want to put raw meat on it, I'll make them a different one for that - its all good.

Where the customer is concerned, I don't have an oppinion, I will make what they want.


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## millzit (Feb 5, 2012)

this chestnut wood does stink when milled. i always use a mask and put my wife at the receiving end of the planer when milling. this particular pile of wood lived on a wall in the den of a lady friend for at least 30 years. there is no aroma until sawdust is made, not real pungent, just unpleasant. i tend to use my senses more than anything when it comes to old wood. case in point…..i had an old table from the farm that had a date stamp of 1861 on the bottom. since it was so busted up that reno was out of the question, i decided to dismantle it and make small boxes and projects out of it. i think it is osage, but the first time i stuck a stick of it in the planer, i immediately took the whole pile and put it in the back of the wood shed…......it was simply gross and very nauseating. so..there it sits.


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

I ran a piece od Zebra wood and stopped for that reason. My shop is in my basement and I can't smell up the house with my woodworking or the better half will get grumpy - can't have that


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## canadianchips (Mar 12, 2010)

*HorizontalMike *: My wife and I were talking about that last night. The show she was watching was counting the bacteria on wooden spoons. I told her about the study done when I went to cabinet making school in 1976. Wondering IF those studies back then have changed. Thanks for the link.
PS: The Empire state building is sitting on pressure treated, creosote footings, I wonder if they ever took them out ?(A lot of tourist going there,hmmmmmmmm, not safe for back yard but a Government building, it's maybe STILL OKAY…......hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


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