# Making a Plane. Swap the knowledge



## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I'm going to start this but want *Everyone to pitch in*. I haven't edited it yet and will be adding notes through the course of the following week, so check back often.

In conjuction with the Plane swap.

*Everybody pitch in.* I know the rules say you can't post pictures of the plane, but posting technique, questions, suggestions and process should be shared. If it includes a few pictures, so be it.

This plane will be a normal size smoother.

In choosing the bedding angle, I took this from ST. JAMES BAY TOOL CO's Site.

Since I agree with it 100 %, Copy and paste is faster than typing it out.

-45 degrees: Recommended for work on softwoods. 
-47 ½ degrees: A Norris original angle. Recommended for work on soft or hard woods. 
-50 degrees: Recommended for work on hard woods. 
-55 degrees: Recommended for work on difficult woods, such as extra curly wood.

So the first thing I did was find the body. A piece of reclaimed chestnut looked to fit the bill. I cut the piece about an 1/8" to 3/16" wider than the blade I intend to use. I plan to make this a 50 degree bed, so the bed was cut at 50 degrees, and the front piece at 45 degrees. The front piece can vary. I know David Finch recommends 62 degrees, but I like a little more room to get the shavings out.










I then found a piece of scrap Bloodwood for the sides. I split it down the middle for the two sides. If you want to make a plane that looks like a seamless piece of wood, cut the sides from each side of a complete block. That process is laid out here. Make sure you mark it so you know exactly how it goes back together.










You want the center piece approximately 1/8" to 3/16" wider than the iron.










Here is the iron I've chosen for this plane. The chip breaker is one that I made. I had made it for an infill and must have decided on another direction, so it seems to be the perfect fit for this plane.










The groove is to accept the cap screw.










I decided to make this with a vintage iron and chip breaker, just to show the groove. I forgot to make this groove once until after it was glued up. Believe me, before is easier. I've also made this groove with a router and table, but my router table is set up for plane totes, and I'll need that soon, so a sharp chisel seemed quicker.










A quick guick cut with the dovetail saw.



















A sanded a little "flat" on the end of the front piece. I don't like the mouth coming to a true point. It makes it to week and will chip at the very end.



















You will find you will be dry fitting over and over again while making this type (or any type I guess) plane.

Next up is a rough out of the wedge. I found a piece of Ash scrap that was the perfect size. It should be the same width as the iron. Note I'm cheating a little here and copying another wedge. Dimensions on this isn't an exact science, but fitting it to "your" plane is.










Note a little tip at the top. This is not a requirement, but moves the top away from the iron and makes tapping it with the hammer when setting the iron a little easier.










Next up I made the pin. I show here how I did it with a plug cutter, but if you don't have a plug cutter, I did it with a rasp. I scored the outside (I used the band saw, but any saw would do), then just whittled away until it fit.














































So apparently I forgot to take a picture when I marked for the pin holes. Just lay the iron, wedge and pieces together. Leave about an 1/8" extra space so you have room to fit the wedge. Also remember to mark out the whole circle, not just the center so you're sure you have enough room.










Then dry fit everything again.










Then just glue it up. (note the notches in the top of the sides were in the scrap piece I used, so they were not intentionally put there)




























That's were I left it for the night. More to come.

Off to the shop to see how bad I screwed it up!!

Day 2. On with the show.

So next I flatten the bottom and squared it up with the sides.



















I then put it together for a test run. This is the very first shaving to come from the plane.



















And being the above pictures where all from softwood, I decided to try a not so friendly piece of Ash.


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

This will be a great reference . Thanks Don W. What type of plane are you making? What is the groove for? It looks relatively deep. I am reading Finck's book, just haven't gotten very far into it yet.


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## ScottKaye (Jan 19, 2013)

looking good…


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## shelly_b (Aug 8, 2012)

Thanks this helps alot! What kind of plane is this? Jack, block, etc. Also, could you tell us what the main difference between the main 3 or 4 are? I am trying to decide which I want to make, but other than size, I don't know what seperates them. Thanks!!


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

Great tutorial so far Don


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Nice tutorial


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Thank Mos & Scott/

Shelly, this will be a smoother. (OP edited for that info)

As for types. A smoother will be used for smoothing or finishing. A scraper even a finer finish and works on very difficult grain. A smoother should have a mouth of about 1/16" wide when the iron is set to cut. A scraper can be wider, a lot wider. The wider the better for getting the shavings out.

Jacks and scrubs are for rough work. The mouth can be wider and these are usually narrower. A jack is typically like a #5, about 14" long. A scrub is shorter and narrower. Both have a cambered iron, the scrub is cambered more. They will be used for dimensioning lumber, and trueing rough sawn.


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

Thanks for posting, Don, this is def what I'm shooting for…a simple Krenov…with pretty woods. You certainly make it look easy as pie!

After glue up, are pins usually added to hold the 'knob' and 'tote' sections in place, or is there so much surface area involved that glue is plenty strong enough?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Terry, glue is plenty strong. You will see some processes that use pins, but they are usually to keep everything lined up during glue up's. In fact most of the time they are in an area to be cut off.

Another trick I learned, when gluing the sides, use a pinch of salt to keep the wood from sliding around on you. The graduals stick and hold it in place like sand would, but dissolve to nothing from the.glue.


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## BBF (May 13, 2013)

Thanks for sharing this Don.


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

Salt, huh? Never read of that in one of my books…

Don, you should be sainted or knighted for payment for all the knowledge you share for free! 

Can I get an Amen?


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Amen!

Thanks again for the efforts Don.


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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)




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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)

Great step by step Don. Very useful.


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## 7Footer (Jan 24, 2013)

Great help here thank you Don! You make it seem so simple!

What about the type of glue, which glue have you found to give the best results?


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## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

+14!


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I just use titebond 2 or 3.


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## Wally331 (Nov 8, 2012)

Check out this series of videos by Sumokun. He shows how to make a traditional style plane, still using a krenov style laminating technique. It takes a long time to watch them all, but it seems to be a great way of making a traditional plane without all the chopping and mortising which must be so precise.

Video 1


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## RPhillips (May 16, 2013)

Don W, thank you so much, I appreciate the walkthrough. I'm feeling a little more confident now. I'm still going to make a mock up from a piece of reclaimed oak first tho.


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

What is the groove (in the wood body) for in pics 6, 7 and 8? I understood TerryR was asking about the knob and tote that are sometimes added after the body glue up?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Hah Rob, your doing a mock up in reclaimed oak and I made my plane in reclaimed chestnut. I just planed 2 pieces of reclaimed oak to make a jointer like Mos's. If you guys haven't seen Mos's blog yet, its the cool place to be.

The groove is for the cap screw head. Other wise the iron wouldn't sit flat.


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## Wally331 (Nov 8, 2012)

The groove in pics 6,7 and 8 is so that the screw on the cap iron could recess into the bed. If you use a very thick iron, as is often used in traditional wood body planes, you often don't need a cap iron- and the groove doesn't need to be cut.


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

*CFrye* Terry was referring to wooden pins that go across the plane from side to side (all the way through). They're usually 1 or 2 all the way in the front ("knob section") and 1 or 2 all the way in the back ("tote section")

What he was referring to was the 2 pieces of wood that are held between the two side pieces, one being the "knob piece" (or the toe) and one being the "tote piece" (or the heal). Sometimes pins are used to hold things in alignment during glue up. This shows what he was asking about:


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Groove-check
Knob piece, tote piece-check and check!
Thanks!


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

Salt! Sweet trick, I'm going to try that!

Great reference Don, thanks for putting this together. Your putting me to shame as swap moderator.


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## AnthonyReed (Sep 20, 2011)

Thank you Don.


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## widdle (Mar 10, 2010)

Don…Your a wiz…good work..


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

*Another trick I learned, when gluing the sides, use a pinch of salt to keep the wood from sliding around on you. The graduals stick and hold it in place like sand would, but dissolve to nothing from the.glue.*

Pro tip of the day right there. This is a great write up, thanks for sharing.


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## carguy460 (Jan 3, 2012)

Great stuff here…now its my turn to ask a stupid question!

Regarding wedges: I have seen two types of wedges - one that is solid, and one that has a "gap" in the middle…what is the difference, why would I need one with the "gap"? Function, or form?

Solid Wedge (like the one Don made in the OP, also) pic stolen from Rhett @ www.niceashplanes.com










"Gap" wedge (what's the proper term I'm looking for?) pic stolen from Mos's build blog


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

Jason, solid wedges are used with a cross pin, the other style (I also don't know the correct term) is used on planes without a cross pin, so the pressure is created by wedge shaped cutouts in the sidewalls. The gap is left for shavings to exit.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Jason, short answer is, the first type is used with a cross bar. Since the bar is there the extra space wouldn't help with shaving escape.

the second type is for no cross bar like Mos's. It locks in tapered grooves in the side.

Edit JayT beat me.


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## carguy460 (Jan 3, 2012)

And just like that, I've proven how ignorant I am! Thanks JayT! I should have caught the different plane styles during my research. I'm a little dense…

Edit: Thanks to you also Don!


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

The reason for the gap is to allow shavings to clear better. With the krenov style with the solid wedge and cross pin, the mouth isn't usually shaped the same, or as deep as on a traditional style.

Having a solid wedge in a traditional plane would jam up the mouth pretty regularly, which would be annoying. I'm sure the wedge could be shorter and not have the gap, but since the bearing surface is just 1/4" wide abutments, I guess it could use all it can get…

Essentially, it lets the wedge get further down in the mouth with out causing too many issues with clearing shavings


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

According to Mr. Wilson, the author of Making Wood Tools the above style of wedge is called 'Primus-Style'. He shows how to carve the wedge, and add the Abutments AFTER glue up of the central core in his book. Looks doable.

I believe a .pdf version of his book was posted a couple of days ago here or on DonW's recent blog…


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## carguy460 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks for the info guys! If I can ever get shop time I'm going to try to make a practice Krenov style out of Oak…so I will be using the solid style wedge. Would there be any downside to making the cross pin out of something like brass?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

a brass cross pin will be fine. Just keep in mind you need to hold it in place. If you look at the Nice Ash, the pin doesn't show on the outside so its locked in place. You can also turn it like I did the wood bar, or use some sort of pin to lock it in. All will work the same.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Exelent Don, what a lovely way to share your skills.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## Carll (Jul 17, 2013)

Wow. This is a great piece of work.


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## GregInMaryland (Mar 11, 2010)

A question about blades.

Based on the iron planes I currently have, here are the blade widths:


Block - 1 3/8ths inch for Veritas block plane
Smoother - 2 inch for a number 4 replacement blade from Ron Hock
Jointer - 2 3/8ths inch for a number 7 replacement blade from Ron Hock

Are these dimensions applicable for a wooden plane of the same type?

Thanks.

Greg


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

Greg yes, but the limitation is the size of your hand. A 2 3/8" plane plus a 1/4" (roughly ?) or so on either side can be difficult to hold. Thats why you see totes on wooden planes with wide irons. Thats what I say but I'm no expert.

I have a wooden plane with a 2" iron and it fits my hands well.


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## rfusca (May 9, 2013)

Is there a reason (beyond the fact that narrower = more passes) that you couldn't have a 2 inch jointer? I figured the effectiveness of the jointer had to do with the length of the body more than the width of the blade.


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

My opinion only: but I don't see a problem with it if it's going to be used mostly for edge jointing but I like a decent amount of camber on my jointers so for face jointing wider boards the extra width is helpful since you kind of lose width to the camber. But we are talking a difference of only 3/8", not really a big deal. 2" would probably make a nice jointer.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I would agree even though I don't typically camber my jointers. The advantage to a 2 3/8" jointer is you can joint a full 2" piece, which I often do. If you were only doing 1" or 1 1/2" stock, a 2" jointer would be fine.

As Mauricio said, that width is why you don't see a lot of krenov style jointers.


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

You know blade width and grip are one of the reasons I think the coffin smoother makes sense; It gets around that issue somewhat by making the ends narrower. Hmm I don't have a coffin smoother, I need to get me one …


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

The problem I find with the coffin smoother is its to square to be comfortable which the krenov gets around by rounding off both ends.


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## derekcohen (Jul 15, 2007)

There are complete pictorials on my website:

*Building a Strike Block Plane*: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaStrikeBlockPlane.html










*Building a Wooden Router Plane*: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaWoodenRouterPlane.html










*Building a Krenov Smoother and Block Plane*: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaKrenovSmoother.html










*Building a Bridle Plough Plane*: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BridlePloughBuild.html










*Building a Jack Plane*: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingAJackPlane.html










That's about enough for now 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

Awesome tools, Derek…I drool over your website all the time! Such nice attention to detail.


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## BTimmons (Aug 6, 2011)

I think I remember reading once that walnut isn't quite hard enough to use as the sole of a plane. But how about the guts? I mean, the part that makes up the main body and holds the blade and wedge. Provided I use a harder wood for the sole I should be good with a mostly walnut body, right?


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## rfusca (May 9, 2013)

Doesn't having a separate sole create the chance that different expansion could have the body and sole crack/warp/separate?

@Derek - I was looking at your smoother from Krenov himself - http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/The%20James%20Krenov%20Smoother.html - do you like the asymmetry on the back? I was thinking of doing something along those lines even before I saw that.


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## GregInMaryland (Mar 11, 2010)

Thanks for the input guys. I am not going to build a jointer or jack, but rather a smoother or block plane. What would your thoughts be on a minimum size blade for a smoother? I have blades in the following widths that I can use: 2 inches, 1 3/4 inches, 1 1/2 inches and 1 1/4 inches. I am leaning towards the 1 1/2 or 1 1/4ths inch for the trade smoother and the 2 or 1 3/4ths inch for my own smoother.

Also, I am calling shotgun. If Derek decides to join the swap, I will gladly offer up my meager attempt for one of his rather stellar examples.

Greg


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Greg, my suggestion would be 1 1/2" and above for a smoother, anything less make it a block.

Thanks for the links Derek. The wood in use on those planes is outstanding.


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## GregInMaryland (Mar 11, 2010)

@ Brian, I hope that laminating hard maple to the sole of a walnut plane won't lead to problems. That is exactly what I am doing. Given that the entire concept of a Krenov-style plane is to cut then laminate the sides, I would think (and hope) that if the wood is properly dried there wouldn't be any problems with laminating the sole with two different species.

Greg


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

laminating hard maple to the sole of a walnut plane won't lead to problems. Just beauty.


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## GregInMaryland (Mar 11, 2010)

@ Don, drat.

Oh well, I will find some use for those too small blanks already glued up and squared. I guess I will have a few extra block planes.

Greg


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

*wait,* I did say *won't* lead to problems, I double checked.


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## rfusca (May 9, 2013)

I'm confused why it doesn't have the potential for issues? the bottom would be thin and wouldn't move much, but the rest of the base seems like it would have enough mass to expand considerably. With just the sides laminated, they would move with it - but the sole being seperate, seems like it would start to separate from the sides.
(This is just me being honestly curious, as it doesn't seem to be the case.)


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## GregInMaryland (Mar 11, 2010)

The drat was to the blade widths and the necessary blank size that I unfortunately miscalculated.

I am not too worried about the maple/walnut issue. Of course, ignorance is bliss.

Greg


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Chris, thickness of wood isn't the issue. A piece of 1/16" wood 6' long will expand and contract at the same rate (assuming the same moister change) as a 3" piece 6' long. Now its true different wood may expand at different rates, but that difference in a 10" plane will be insignificant.

Think of it this way. If you glued 16 - 1/16" thin pieces together, would they move different than the original 1" piece?

Now if you were turning the sole sideways, so the grain went the opposite direction we'd be having a different conversation. But still, on a 10" plane, I doubt it would matter.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

@Greg, so make a smaller smoother. There are no hard fast rules and 1/4" isn't much of a jump.


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## GregInMaryland (Mar 11, 2010)

For what it is worth the maple is 5/16ths inch thick, and for two of the three blanks that I glued up the maple is nearly quartersawn.

Greg


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

Making progress on my jointer today










One big tip, if you intend to make a bunch of totes, a handle makers rasp would be highly desirable. Trying to do the inside of the handle was rather annoying with normal rasps/files


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Mos I can see how it'd be desirable for making just one!
Stupid question time: How tall should the plane blank be (from the bottom of the sole to the top where the blade is inserted)? I think David Finck says 2 1/2" but I'm not sure…
Can the wedge serve as the chip breaker?


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

The jointer I'm making is 3.5" tall, and I think that's too tall. It was just laziness on my part, as I had 1.5"x3.5" boards to use for it, and with no power tools to easily take them down in width I just didn't.

I think 2.5" would be sufficient, and I think that's closer to the height I'm making the one I'm working on for the plane swap.

Use the wedge as a chip breaker in the traditional sense, no. I don't think you'd want the wedge that close to the edge of the iron. However, if what you were asking is do you need a chip breaker in a plane that's using a wedge, then the answer is no, you don't need one as long as the iron is thick enough.

In my jointer plane, I'm not using a chip breaker, and my iron is 3/16" thick


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Good to know. Thanks Mos! I've ordered a Half Ash blade (1/4"). The only reason I haven't checked the mail repeatedly today is because it's Sunday! 
Another question…If a sole is added and the grain on the sole runs toe to heal as well as the body does it matter, from a contraction-expansion point of view, if the growth rings run the same direction? i.e.: looking at the end the sole rings run side to side and the body rings run up and down? Hope that makes sense.


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

Mos have you thought of Razee'ing that thing?


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

I don't want to take anything off the top now, since I have gotten the mortise for the tote done this weekend. I have thought about taking a little bit off the bottom, and then adding piece of contrasting wood on the front of the mouth to close it up again… Sucker weights 9.5 pounds right now lol


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

You're right Mos, someday I need to spring for the tote bit. Right now I use a round over on both sides.

I pretty much finished my 36" jointer. I'll post a blog when I have time. 36" is to long, its hard to handle, but I can't bring myself to cut it.

As for the height, just make it lower than the length of the iron. 2.5" would work just fine.


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## BigRedKnothead (Dec 21, 2012)

A couple days late, but I'm surprised black walnut would not make a decent wood plane. Stuff seems pretty hard to me.


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

First look at the new 55 degree angle. I also went for a coffin shape, to help with the pushing. The additional 10 degrees makes for a bit more effort when working, but the results I think speak for themselves. Full 2" shavings on a piece of curly hard maple with zero tearout.


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

VERY sweet Rhett. I love the crinkly bacon type shavings.


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## Hammerthumb (Dec 28, 2012)

Rhett - thats awesome. Is this a prototype for your line?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Thanks mos for the motivation










blog will be along shortly.


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

nice, what did you do to round the corners on the body? Just a router bit?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

what did you do to round the corners on the body? Just a router bit?

Just a block plane.


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Stupid Question time: What are alternative sources for blade material? Could, say, an old lawn mower blade or leaf spring be reincarnated into a plane blade? Thanks for answers. 
I should add 'without a forge'.


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

You need good quality tool steel and then with anything reclaimed you run into having to remove the temper, shape and then re-harden the steel. Unless you are familiar with working metal (like Dave), I'd stick to using an existing plane blade, either new or salvaged from a donor plane.

Edit: Lawn mower blades are definitely too soft of steel to be used. Leaf springs, I don't know. I do know that some people use leaf springs to make knife blades, but don't know if it would really work for a plane.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I think it depends on the leaf spring. I've heard some can be hard like O1, but shaping it already hardened wouldn't be much fun and to harden it you'd need a way of know somebody who could.

If you want to make a few you could order the O1 and shape it then have it hardened. That's want I do, but you'd want to make a few at a time to make it pay.


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Jay, as far as the mower blade being too soft, does that mean it wouldn't hold an edge very long and would require frequent sharpening?
Don, where do you order the 01? Hardening is done at the blacksmith shop or where?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I order my O1 from Mcmaster Carr. I've got a friend that can harden it for me. There are several guys here on LJs that could probably be talked into it as well. I'll let them speak for themselves though.


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

CFrye, heat treating steel is fun! I'm new to it, but have been reading quite a bit and practicing so I can make a plane iron. Here is my 2 cents…

First, to test steel for carbon content, use the spark test...

Low carbon steels won't harden as well; so won't take a sharp edge or hold it long. Leaf spring vary, tractor link arms are possible, old rusty steel is everywhere, or McMaster-Carr is where I got a stick of O1 3/16" thick, 2×18" for about $25. Store bought steel usually comes already annealed, or softened, so you can cut it and grind it to your shape. If using found steel, heat it until orange, then let it slowly cool in ashes or just room air so it will become annealed.

Next, you'll need a heat source, Mapp gas from the Borg is cheapest, and maybe a metal can for an oven. Heat the cutting edge until no longer magnetic, and bright orange…this color will probably spread up the steel for an inch or so, that's far enough. While still hot, immerse the steel in 100 degree oil. Any oil. Crisco, used motor oil, bacon fat, or a mixture of all the above. Careful for flames at this point! Use tongs and good leather gloves!

I mentioned oil as the cooling quench since I'm using O-something steel, A-something steel quenches in air, W-something steel quenches in water. When in doubt, use water.

When the steel cools, wash it off, and see if an ordinary file will scratch the part you just heated. Hopefully not since the steel is now harder than the file.

Next, get a disposable toaster oven. Heat the iron at 350 degrees for a few hours, then let it slowly cool. This will temper the steel and remove the brittle nature cause by the extreme heat source earlier. There are charts on the www that show what exact temperature to temper at to create a desired hardness/flexibility in the finished steel. I'll have to look for links, but 350 degrees is sorta in the middle range.

Now, sharpen your new iron, and enjoy!

Hopefully, the experts will add more to my brief overview…there are entire books written on this topic! And, I highly recommend Goddard's $50 Knife Shop as good reading!

...good luck!


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## DonBroussard (Mar 27, 2012)

@terryR-I learned something from your previous post. I did not know that the preface on the steel defines its quenching media. A = air; W= water; O = oil. Very good post on the process-thanks for posting that.


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

Here's a good link with color charts and recommended hardness for different hand tools…

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/tempering-colors-steel-d_1530.html


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

Jay, as far as the mower blade being too soft, does that mean it wouldn't hold an edge very long and would require frequent sharpening?

Yep, mower blades are generally low carbon steel, see Terry's post. That is so that when the mower blade hits something hard, like a stick or rock, the steel deforms to absorb the impact/ leaving a nick in the blade, but otherwise intact. If a mower blade was hardened tool steel and hit a rock hard enough, it would shatter and send shrapnel flying.


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

```
Don, Mcmaster Carr's site is HUGE! I could wander around in there for a long time. Thanks for the referal.<br />
```
 Terry, that's a lot for 2 cents! Thank you for the info and the link. There was quite a bit I didn't understand (I am a visual learner). The link was good. I knew metals were hardened to different strengths, but had forgotten. I have your post saved on email so I can refer back to it as I understand better.
@ Jay, thank you for the example/explanation. That made it really easy to comprehend. I appreciate everyone's help.


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Question about adding a sole plate. Do you add the sole plate in one piece *before* you cut off the cheeks or add to the bottom in two pieces *after* you glue the cheeks back on? I've read both ways and am curious as to how you all do this step.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

CFrye, where did you see the sole added in 2 pieces? I'm curious how that works.


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Well, I misread(half-read) that. The sole was added (in one piece) after the cheeks were glued on then the mouth cut or routed. So my question should read 'add sole plate before or after cheeks cut?'(I think) Patience is appreciated.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

So typically when you re-sole, you are adding a sole to an existing plane. So that's the way most people know. Adding it before cutting the checks allow you to make the mouth right along as it the sole was just part of the body.

If your making a new plane, adding it first would be easier. I don't believe there is a right or wrong, its just a matter of personal preference.

Some may also not like the seem in the sole. From a performance stand point, it doesn't matter.


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

THE good tip from Kari Hultman (The village Carpenter)
Next, I had an epiphany. It's a no-brainer, but it hadn't really dawned on me until now: a full-width shaving needs an exit path-from mouth to top of plane-that equals a full-width shaving

http://villagecarpenter.blogspot.be/2013/01/horned-smoother-part-vii.html

I had received some cheap wooden planes which didn't work. The escape path didn't respect the above principle. The wedge was also interfering.
A little reworking with a chisel cured the problem.


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

Yeah Sylvain. Great link to share. I came to the same realization when I made my jointer plane as well, and had changed to a similar pattern as what you posted. Glad to see I'm not alone lol


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

And know this isn't a new problem. I've had vintage planes with the same issue. One of the worst was a Sargent made. I'll Need to see if I still have it.


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

Most of us have seen the black and white video of a Swiss tool maker making a wooden jointer in the year 84
He was speaking French.
http://www.rts.ch/archives/tv/culture/suisse-au-fil-du-temps/3464421-les-outils-de-bois.html

I assume there was no lateral play for the iron.

When he was grinding the iron (at 10'45"), he said something along the line of "the iron must protrute of the same amount on each side". In other words : the cutting edge of the iron must be grinded parallel to the sole.

That makes sense; as the iron might be a little askew, the reference is the sole, not the perpendicular to the long edge of the iron.

So the use of a sharpening gig is not the way to go.
Let the iron protude, let's say 1/2", draw a line on the back, taking the sole as a rule and grind parallel to this line.


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

These are only MY thoughts on the matter:

An askew iron can still be placed parallel to the sole, give enough room on either side, inside the mouth.

A wooden plane will need its sole flattened more often than not. If you grind your blade to fit an off plane, then fettel the plane, you would be regrinding your blade every time you wanted to use your tool. Why not flatten your plane square to match your iron?

Also, how would you know you were holding the iron square, if there is no reference? You could easily draw a line with a harsh angle, thinking it is correct, and be way off base.

My suggestion is teach yourself to grind a fairly square iron, then make the wood fit it. It only takes a few things in a row to be "off" before your chasing your tail around the shop.


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## lwllms (Jun 1, 2009)

Just a few thoughts on heat treating:

Avoid a MAPP torch. MAPP gas burns at a temperature just a little hotter than propane but the torches make a pencil-point flame. You want uniform heat over a wider area and you'll end up with over-heated spots trying to use a MAPP torch.

While you can get by with a couple small propane torches with flame spreaders, a bigger propane torch working off a 20lb propane tank is a lot better.

Cleanliness is important as is preheating the steel. You want even heat distribution.

Using color to judge temperature is risky because the color depends on ambient light. Color will vary from location to location.

The most accurate indicator of the phase change to austienite is the formation of small iron pools on the surface of the steel. Using this is more accurate than the computer controlled furnace we use and the computer is accurate to something like three degrees. The reason visual change in the steel is more accurate is critical temperature varies according to actual carbon and alloy content of the steel. Steel comes with a specification range that will make a difference from steel batch to steel batch.

If you keep everything clean, preheat the steel, and use a large enough heat source to heat the steel uniformly you'll know when to quench the steel. Use a thin vegetable oil for oil hardening steel and a brine for water hardening steel.

Here's a video that shows what the small pools of iron forming looks like:






We have a guy visiting from Finland learning plane making. It's hard to find chisels suitable for making side escapement planes so we started with metal working including making chisels. Here's a photo of Tuomo heat treating a 7/8" wide chisel and the photo shows the torch, heat treating area, oil pan and vent hood for indoor work.


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

lwllms, Thanks for the tips on heat treating! That photo and link are worth a thousand words. I'm almost certain I've been overheating the steel since I'm outside looking for color change…will look for pools of iron now.

Any recommended places to pick up larger propane torches and flame spreaders? The internet is my most available shopping mall…on to google I go…

Thanks, again for sharing your knowledge!


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Wondering if this would work? Hubby picked it up at Lowe's for torching weeds…


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

Cfrye, that looks cool!

Lowes, huh? I could bungee that to the tractor and get more weed clearing done while mowing!  My best friend has promised to build me a flamethrower, but is slow about stuff…

Hey, can you crank it up, and point the flame at a piece of steel, and report back what happens as far as color change to the steel?


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

TerryR I can do that. It'll be tomorrow. Headed in to work right now.


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

Wow, looks like these weed burners are all over the internet…

http://www.hardwareandtools.com/Flame-Engineering-VT2-1-2-24CE-Red-Dragon-Torch-Kit-Economy-500-000-BTU-1206598.html

This one even mentions heating steel as one of its uses…500,000btu…$60…pointed into a small fire brick oven, as in the photo above, I bet it will heat plane irons just fine. Never mind, *CFrye*, you're off the hook…unless you just want to play with fire and hot steel when you get off work.


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Well maybe.


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## lwllms (Jun 1, 2009)

I haven't tried a weed burner. We use a Goss propane torch with a BP-5 tip. It's the GSKP-105 at US Welder. The price is $227.50, not cheap but neither is steel or the labor we invest.


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## rfusca (May 9, 2013)

You can generste enough heat with natural lump charcoal, a grill chimney starter, and a hair dryer - I'm not sure how controllable it'd be though.


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

Got a weed burner today while shopping for 2×4's. Only $45. If it doesn't heat steel, I'm sure it will burn weeds…and we got acres of those.

The Goss propane torch looks like what I want for my b-day!


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Testing/reporting is up to you terryR. Propane tanks are empty :-(
Details…details


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

^ OK, will see what happens…kind of exciting…

...kind of hard to justify a $225 gas tip for one or two plane irons. Time for a decision by commitee…


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

Well, my initial impression with a 250,000btu weed burner is…Wow! Very cool tool. IF you have 100 acres of weeds to deal with. 

Seriously…here's a better review for our use…I failed to write down the maker or model #, but I'm going to assume all the weed burners in this $45-70 price range are the same. Easy to attach to 20 pound tank, comes in kit form, so you get all the pieces you need to get burning. One brass thumbscrew allows propane to enter the tool, and a spring loaded lever lets you control the output. (more on that).

Difficult to light the tool without practice, but after a few minutes, you get the hang of it. Then there's the lever to control output…choose nothing or full on flamethrower…any setting between those extremes is hard to find with my old hands. But, who wants a setting below full-on when burning weeds? 

First attempt at heating steel…I chose a piece of O1 about 1/4" thick and 1" long. A marking gauge blade blank left over from the last swap. Heated to orange in no time. Only problem was the force of the flame blowing the steel around in my heat box…had to hold it while heating. That's a little tricky since the controls on the weed burner are at least 3 feet from the tip, and my tongs are only 15" long. That could be modded, I suppose…

But, no problem heating 1/4" steel to critical temp.

Next, I chose something more applicable to us…a piece of O1 3/16" thick and 2×3.5"...don't try this at home! 










Of course, the thicker steel took longer to heat. In fact, the concrete in front of my heat box exploded into shrapnel before the steel took on any color but black. Of course, now that I look at that photo, I can see how stupid my approach was! I still had 3 more fire bricks…










So, I added a few bricks, and hoped for the best. Umm…safety goggles at all times, please.

I lit the Beast and just held it's huge flame in place on the protruding edge of the steel. Pretty much holding my breath at this point…not sure what would happen! Slowly, the thick steel began to change color. All the way to bright red in about 5 minutes…that's all the cahones I had left at this point.

The heat box probably needs some thick steel underneath it, so please, don't copy my example. This was just a rough and hurried experiment, and I think I gained enough data from it to help. The piece of steel in the photo is black since I quenched it in old diesel oil…that's all I had ready to go.

So, will a weed burner heat treat steel? Yes, with an asterisk. It's too long, and doesn't have an easily controllable output. If it's all you got, use it with caution. The flame it produces is nearly 18" long…maybe that's why the handle is so long.  I would certainly NOT recommend its purchase for heating steel alone, but as a multi-tasker it will get used out here on the farm.

I didn't even try the Mapp gas on the thicker steel.

Now, I'm seriously considering that awesome Goss blower. I've already got enough steel for 5 plane irons, many knife blades, etc. Plus, I really like to make stuff myself!  Darn, these swaps are getting more and more expensive…


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## Klickitat (Apr 12, 2013)

love this thread


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## BTimmons (Aug 6, 2011)

You guys making your own blades are nuts. I mean that in the awesome and admirable sense of the word.

So,* red oak*. There's plenty of it here and it's not expensive. Would it make a good body for a plane?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Red oak is pretty close to beech, one of the most used wood in american made wood planes.


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## BTimmons (Aug 6, 2011)

Good to know. Thanks, Don!


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

TerryR that is one awesome write up! I will take your advice and *NOT* try that at home. I got as far as taking my two 20# tanks in to be filled. Will pick them up on Thursday…for weed torching. Divided shop time today between putting a 6 tpi blade on my bench top band saw and tuning it up, practicing re-sawing on a piece of maple from one of those broken chairs, and tearing down that Craftsman plane that I went back and got. see 'exploded' view:









Good day! Also started a tote out of the same chair. Very good day!


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## ksSlim (Jun 27, 2010)

Coal or charcoal in a brake drum forge for heating metal.
Google brake drum forge.


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

Terry, great show man! LOL. I just kept imagining your wife peaking out of the house saying "awe sh*t what the F is he doing now?!"


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Great stuff. Who hasn't exploded cinder block trying to heat treat steel.

Maur, I could here my wife's voice in my head as I ready that!


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

Yep, I only try stupid human tricks like that, when the wife is at work! 

ksSlim, I sure want a full on coal burning forge with a hand crank driven air blower…Right now, I'm just looking for the quick way to heat steel untill my forge is born.

Next experiment…I'll drill a hole in a fire brick to allow the Mapp gas to enter my heat box, and see if Mapp will heat 3/16" thick steel to critical. Copy of Goddard's 'One Brick Forge'.

I guess I should confess…I also purchased a store-bought iron for the plane swap now that I can see how difficult it may be to create the iron I want without better tools, or more experience! LOL


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

I dont know Terry, it might be a good idea to have someone home just in case you blow yourself up.  Sounds like its a long walk to your nearest neighbors house.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

If any of you didn't see Derek's reply to Loren's thread, its well worth a read.

http://lumberjocks.com/replies/667713

Doing a similar test has been on my to-do list. check, Thanks Derek.


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## RPhillips (May 16, 2013)

I have a couple questions/concerns before I get started on my plane swap build that I would like feed back on.

First off, I'm leaning towards a 55 or 60 degree build, any reason to reconsider other angles? I don't have a lot of experience and my thinking is that I wanted to make something that might be a little different from what the recipient currently owns.

I plane to use a nice piece of Jatoba Cherry that a fellow LJ was gracious enough to donate. My thought is to rip it into three pieces (1"x3"x10") then glue it up, then to re-saw about a 1/4" off each side. Then I'll cut my angles from the center section, fit the blade, retention pin and wedge, then re-glue the whole thing back together. This sound about right?

What should the dimensions be for a smoother - LxWxH?

Should the mouth still be about 5/9 from the front with the higher blade angle?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Rob, it sounds like a solid plan. Angle sounds good.

length for a smoother would be in the 6" to. 9" range.
width is iron + side thickness + side play ( I like about 3\16" but some like more)
height really depends on style and iron length


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Oh, and 5/9 is a good average


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

Whip that Jatoba down with Acetone before you glue it up. It will clean the oil off and help the glue stick.


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## RPhillips (May 16, 2013)

good tips guys, thanks


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## Tugboater78 (May 26, 2012)

thanks for this, i gotta go crazy to get this done in the time i have… gonna make a trip down to NiceAshPlanes to check out the facility and get my blades..since hes only about an hour away!


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Stumbled onto this again. Thought some would be interested.


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## RPhillips (May 16, 2013)

Thanks for posting that Don!


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Saved and Printed! Thanks Don!


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## RPhillips (May 16, 2013)

same here! lol


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

Not related to the plane swap, but I reshaped the tote on the jointer plane I'm making… I now have clearance so the blade doesn't rest on it. Much better


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Saved and printed, thanks DonW


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## DonBroussard (Mar 27, 2012)

@Mos-Fine work on that jointer. The reshaping on the tote came out nice.


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## Tugboater78 (May 26, 2012)

stopped by to see Rhett at NiceAsh today, had a good time checking out how he does it, and he helped demystify making a wooden hand plane as well as good company! on the way to making a plane for the swap!


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Nice Mos. how is it secured to the plane?


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

There is a 1-1/4" mortise, and it is now glued in place.
http://lumberjocks.com/Mosquito/blog/36965

Should be updating the blog either tonight or more likely tomorrow. Got some more done on it tonight


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

For the swappers….


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## DonBroussard (Mar 27, 2012)

Nice video, Rhett. Thanks for posting that.


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## RPhillips (May 16, 2013)

Thanks for the video Rhett


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Thanks for posting the video Rhett. What was the name of the files without teeth on the side?


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

@CFrye, they're Iwasaki files that he mentioned, but there are a lot of other options as well. I've got a Stanley 2nd cut file that's got a safe edge that I purchased from a big box store. Woodcraft sells those Iwasaki files, and I have been tempted to pick one or two up and see how I like it.

Floats are another option, if you think you'd use them a lot


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

You can also make any file have a safe edge by grinding the teeth of the edge you want to not cut.


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Thanks Mos. Did a search and now know what a float looks like (a small fat bladed saw). Could not find how it's to be used. 
Another subject, what tool(s) did you use to shape the tote on your jointer?


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

I wondered about that Don. Just run the edge along the bench grinder wheel?


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

For mine, I just used a cheap half round rasp (another Stanley big box store), and a couple of other half round files (again, nothing special, just more big box files). Then some sand paper.

A float is used just like a file, but leaves a smoother finish.


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

The Iwasaki files have chemically etched teeth, which leave a remarkably smooth finish. I use a medium cut for the bed and a fine cut for the mouth.

Only files I use in my shop now. Also excellent for fitting tenons.


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## rfusca (May 9, 2013)

I use iwasaki files too - very very nice for the price. Although I found they surface rusted very, very quickly on me. Still not sure why they went faster but they were just untreated for a week or so.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

follow the links to the blog if your interested in seeing more.


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## RPhillips (May 16, 2013)

Nice job Don!


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

Ok, experienced plane makers, time for my stupid question. What is the minimum thickness that the sides should be on a laminated construction?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

that's a tough question JayT. There's a lot that it depends on. I would say the major concern is holding the pin. So holding the pin will depend on how hard the wood your using is, how wide the iron is, and how hard the jamoke behind the hammer is going to wack it. 1/8" may hold, but then…....


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## BigRedKnothead (Dec 21, 2012)

Jay- most of the ones I saw had 3/8" sides…so that's what I went with. I thought it worked well.


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Here's my question for the day: do you smooth (sand, plane…) the (resawn) cheeks and body before you glue them back together?


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## Iguana (Jun 22, 2011)

Well, you do need the surfaces to be flat and mate well for your glue up. Whether or not you need to smooth them depends on your resaw technique. If you are using a bandsaw, some kind of smoothing would be mandatory.


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Yes, resawn with the bandsaw. Somewhere I'm remembering reading that some 'tooth' needs to be there for good adhesion. (Maybe related to bandsaw box reassembly?)


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Don't take the statement about needing "tooth" to far. All that means is glue doesn't stick to nice smooth poly (and the like) very well. I'd say a good medium is sand to about 100 grit. Then the exposed parts do not need a lot of work and the glue holds well. You shouldn't try to glue a really rough surface. It will not hold well.


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

smooth poly ? 
I think I understand but am not familiar with this term and too new to woodworking to know if it's a typo or what. 
Sand to about 100 grit 
got it!
Should freshly planed surfaces be roughed up a little bit? That sounds wrong, but what do I know? Yes, I 'read in to it' on written tests all the time!


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

From what I've read lately, the Experts recommend laminating two smooth pieces of wood together with minimal clamping pressure, so that all the glue isn't squeezed out. I can't remember which mag I got that from, but they claim today's glues are so strong, that a roughed up surface isn't needed to hold glue, as we've thought for years.

I think The Schwarz just planes two surfaces smooth, applies glue, and lets gravity hold the two pieces together…for big chunks. I know I've seen a master violin maker on Roy Underhill's show glue up small parts the same way. Two smooth surfaces, held only by gravity while the glue dries.

Have I experimented with this, and have I a chart of numbers to back up the claim? No. I think the glue is so strong, that a smooth or roughed surface underneath it doesn't matter. As long as you get a bit of squeeze out during glue up, I've never had 2 pieces come apart.

Candy, I think Don means don't apply glue over a coat of wax, poly, etc. sand the poly off first, then glue. 100 grit paper will do nicely…


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Candy, the usual analogy is to imagine wood fiber like a handful of straws. The end of the straws would be the end grain of the wood. You cut those straws apart lengthwise and glue them back together. No matter high finely you cut or sand the wood, there will always be little corners between the straws where glue will go to hold things together. Yellow glue is much stronger than the lignin (or natural glue) that holds wood together.


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

Modern wood glue has a holding strength of 3000 - 4000 lbs per square inch.

Real worry one should have when gluing wood together is how old is the glue.

Over a year old, trash it, left outside in freezing temps, trash it.


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Terry-good reminder. I tend to really crank on the clamps. If I were stronger I'd be turning coal into diamonds!
Rick-that makes sense. Pictures (anologies) are always appreciated. I am a visual learner. Sometimes, a repeat exposure learner too!
Rhett-throw it away! just cause it's old! GAASP! I guess I can't (shouldn't) save everything forever. LOL We just got a new gallon of Tightbond ll. I need to get busy using it up!


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

http://www.titebond.com/Libraries/LiteraturePDFs/ff876_ShelfLife.sflb.ashx

How Do I Read The Lot Numbers?

Our current lot numbering system is a 10 digit code. The format is: aymmddbat#. The "a" stands for Made in the U.S.A. The "y" is the last digit of the year of manufacture. Digits "mm" represent the month, and "dd" represent the day of the month. The final four digits represent the batch number used for quality control purposes. Therefore, a product with the lot number A104270023 was manufactured on April 27, 2011

Hope this helps


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Thanks waho. 2 years. IF I keep if from freezing.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I break down the gallon into old mustard containers. Then if I forget one in the shop and it freezes, I don't lose the gallon. The gallon stays in the house, even in the summer, then I don't forget to bring it in in the fall.


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Good tip Don! Thanks. Does anybody here use the Glu-bot? Good? Bad? Meh?


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## BigRedKnothead (Dec 21, 2012)

That's funny Candy. I just ordered one today. I'll report back


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Good deal Red! Impeccable timing. Looking forward to your report.


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## Timbo (Aug 21, 2008)

I have been using the glu-bot for a couple months now, working fine for me. Trimmed back the tip to help the glue come out better.


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Tim any regrets, second thoughts about the Glu-bot? Is it worth the money? Would a generic ketchup/mustard bottle do the same thing a lot cheaper? And, most of all, is it easy to open/reopen (its a wrestling match every time I open the Tightbond bottle-always ending up with a pair of pliers)!


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Titebond caps are particularly difficult to open for some reason, which is why I usually buy other brands. A local woodworking store sells big containers of generic yellow glue and that works as well as anything else I've used but they are on the other side of town in a trafficy area so I rarely go there. Last time I bought Elmers wood glue and like it considerably.


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

I get the titebond tips open with my teeth, works like a charm.


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

I've never had an issue with getting a titebond cap open. Closed once, yes. But that was because I left it open for a few weeks… oops.


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Wow, that is manly Mauricio. I don't think I have really ever used a glue besides TB II or III. Seems to work well, its available and I guess I never feel any need to try anything else if it ain't broke, so to speak.


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

Shane, its just a plastic tip, not like opening a beer bottle with your teeth. lol.

I've read that back in the days before TB everyone was using Elmers, and there wasn't even anything wrong with Elmers, it's just our natural tendency to always be looking for the next best thing.


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## BigRedKnothead (Dec 21, 2012)

I've built a lot of furniture with Elmers. A whole gallon on my roubo. None of it has come apart yet


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## Timbo (Aug 21, 2008)

Candy,
No regrets, no issues with the cap but yes any squeeze bottle will work.


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## Tugboater78 (May 26, 2012)

+1 to Maurico use of teeth, another grade school glue eater? Sticks to the ribs.


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## GregInMaryland (Mar 11, 2010)

A question about the cross-pin. My build is mostly following David Finck's Making and Mastering Wood Planes and a little bit from a hand plane Derek Cohen's website, In the Woodshop.

For cutting the round tenon on the cross-pin, David uses a plug cutter and Derek uses a lathe. I tried the lathe route, but since my skills are not that great with a lathe, I did not like the result. So next, I want to try the plug cutter route. However, what type of plug cutter to use-tapered or straight? My gut tells me that a tapered plug cutter won't work. Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Greg


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## 489tad (Feb 26, 2010)

I have a straight plug cutter. I'll report back later tonight.


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

I used a straight plug cutter with good results. The key is to have some kind of jig able to hold the pin centered, square and stable.

Edit: Oh, and make sure to cut the shoulders of the pin before using the plug cutter. DAMHIK


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I use a straight plug cutter as well


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## 489tad (Feb 26, 2010)

Like "JayT said you need some kind of jig. Here's what I came up with.










Its just a plate with a square locator, clamp and a hole the same size as the outside diameter of the plug cutter.










Adjustment screw to get pin block tight under location hole.










It worked well except I screwed up the orientation of the block on the second cut. I'm trying to get the pins center line off the center of the block to make the wedge side a little thicker. Just trying to complicate it any way I can.

I hope showing this jig helps.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I show how I used the plug cutter in this blog.


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## 489tad (Feb 26, 2010)

I second cutting the shoulders first two. DAMHIK!


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

I need help with a capital H. Again, I made the body too narrow. So I added two thin sides to it. I did not use cauls big enough to completely cover the the thin add-ons and they curled at the end edges (yes, that's 'edges' plural). The plane mouth is OK.








Now I'm trying to align everything to position index pins and the body is too wide at the ends. The options, as I see them:
1) Start over. Not my preferred choice, but I'll do it.
2) Proceed with the build using clamp power to make it all come out in the end. I'm thinking this will probably cause the plane to twist?
3) Plane the 'fat' ends to fit. Proceed with the build.
4) Cut off the curled ends, shortening the over-all length. Proceed with the build.
5) Some combination of the above???
Thanks in advance.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I don't get the question/problem Candy. Can you elaborate a little more.


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Because the ends were not clamped bottom and top, the thin walnut curled away from the body mostly at the front of the plane. In essence delaminating? I guess. Sorry.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Take something thin, like a business card stuff some glue down, maybe use some forced air to force it in and clamp it again. Its worth a try.


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

OK I'll try that. Probably making a mountain out of a molehill. The ends are going to be cut off eventually. I just didn't want to mess it up worse trying to 'fix' it. Thanks Don.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

I would think you would round those off. How far down does it go?


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Round off? In the picture above you're looking at the sole of the toe and that gap is about 5/8" toward the mouth and maybe half that deep toward the top of the plane. On the top edge of the same walnut piece the gap is filled with glue but a little bigger. :-/ Too hot to work in the shop this afternoon. I'll try reclamping/reglueing tomorrow as Don suggested.


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

Candy, I did the exact same thing on my first prototype…the sides moved during clamping, and I had gaps on the left front and right rear portions of the plane. yuck. Since it was just a prototype, I left them alone except for squeezing in some glue and re-clamping. After flattening the sole again, the plane took nice shavings! It certainly is too ugly for a gift, but I can use it…

However, your problem seems to be with pretty woods, on a gorgeous potential gift! 

I vote using tiny slivers of dark wood and glue to fill those gaps. sand, sand, sand. No one will ever notice!


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Thanks for the input Terry. I'll keep the sliver idea in mind if reglueing/clamping doesn't fix the problem. That reminds me, read about using sawdust mixed with glue to hide small gaps in inlay… Hmmm. Glad I'm not the only one who has messed up like this. ;-)
By the way Don, the salt really does help stop most of the sliding with glue up. I think i may tape the salt shaker to the glue bottle, so I dont forget! Thanks for that! As long as I'm learning I'm making progress! You all have a great day!


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

I missed that it was on the sole side of the plane. but there is nothing that says the front edge needs to be 90 degrees to the side.


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Oh I see what you mean Wayne! Yes, that is an option. Thanks for commenting and clarifying! Pictures make things so much clearer to me!


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## CFrye (May 13, 2013)

Reglue/reclamp complete. Back on track. Anybody else craving chocolate?









Have a safe holiday and a great week!


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Mmmmm Chocolate.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Sweet. But my wife always says, never try to take chocolate from a women!


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## RPhillips (May 16, 2013)

Is this what I should be shooting for as far as mouth opening goes?


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## lateralus819 (Mar 24, 2013)

Does the pin for the wedge Have to be square?


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## BigRedKnothead (Dec 21, 2012)

Looks good to me Rob.


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

Does the pin for the wedge Have to be square?

No, rhett uses round pins in his Nice Ash planes










I think he may flatten one side a bit, but somewhere posted something about feeling you don't need to for it to hold.


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

Rob, looks good for the mouth before glue up. You will probably have to file it a bit once you start testing and tuning the plane, but that looks like a good starting point.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Lookin good.


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## RPhillips (May 16, 2013)

Thanks for responses.

I just finished the pin today, so all that's left is to is drill the holes for the pin, then it's on to shaping and finish.

:note to self: need to get a vice of some sort…


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

Rob, I'm in the same boat as you. I keep improvising different things with clamps instead of getting a stinking vise!


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Time for you guys to make a bench.


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

Does the pin for the wedge Have to be square?

If the question is "does the pin need to be square to the sides?" the answer is, it's preferable but not necessary. If it is out of square/not parallel to the mouth, you can offset the wedge slightly to make up the difference.


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## RPhillips (May 16, 2013)

I'm trying to get a bench built, but I've hit a state of stasis.


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

Rob, your mouth opening looks good, tight mouths only end in frustration. Your wedge however, that close to the opening of a planes mouth, would lead to clogging.

I flatten a side on a 1/4" pin.


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## RPhillips (May 16, 2013)

Thanks Rhett, I just was holding it in there for the pic. I actually have a little further up than that, but thanks for the heads up,

Got my design laid out, the dry fit is good so far, so it looks like all I need to do now is glue it all together.

I'll give it the once over again tomorrow and then into the clamps she goes. Wish me luck.


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## DonBroussard (Mar 27, 2012)

Anybody doing the razee on their swap plane? I'm looking for layout dimensions on an 18" body. Internet is pretty weak on guidance.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Don, I don't have a 18", but here is a 16". you should be able to adjust for the 2".


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## DonBroussard (Mar 27, 2012)

Thanks, DonW. I'm thinking bed angle of 50 degrees and shavings ejection angle of 60 degrees. Are those similar to your 18"?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

This one is bedded at 45, but 60 for the toe side sounds close. Your design should work.


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## RPhillips (May 16, 2013)

Well, I had a few issues after glue up. My plane decided to start tearing out the wood right at the mouth, guess I should have remembered to sharpen the old girl up first. Live and learn. I was able remedy it, so it wasn't a total loss.

Got it all shaped, sanded, and ready for a finish. Guess I should wipe it down with some Linseed oil, but not sure exactly… Hopefully I can get it from Lowes.


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## Timbo (Aug 21, 2008)

Help needed:
I have had my LJ "smoother" plane built for a while, I have used it a few times to dial it in and was satisfied…until now. I can easily get fine shavings but today I noticed the iron backing out slightly when giving the wedge one last tap. The wedge was made from walnut, I first thought it was compressing so I made another from Burmese rosewood, no change. Now I think the (3/8' oak dowel) wedge pin is flexing and pulling the iron back.

Any thoughts?

I am now considering making a brass pin.


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## 489tad (Feb 26, 2010)

Tim the only thing I remember reading, (someone with the same problem) was fixed by sanding the bed the iron rested on, both sides of the wedge and cross pin. The finish had to be removed. Hope this helps.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Tim, I second Dan's statement.


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## Timbo (Aug 21, 2008)

Just back up from the shop, sanding seems to have helped a bit. It will still back out ever so slightly if the plane is held when setting the wedge, if the plane is sitting on the bench while setting the wedge then no movement.

Is that good or am I just getting close?


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## 489tad (Feb 26, 2010)

Tim, I have one more idea. Could your wedge angle be too steep? Pressure on the iron not in the correct location. I was looking at something else on my plane and that popped into my head. Just a shot in the dark.


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## Timbo (Aug 21, 2008)

Dan, were on the same wavelength today. The wedge is curved and the curve started about where the pin contacted it changing the angle, after some pairing and sanding I think its acceptable now.


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