# Best table saw in the $500ish range?



## Fallon (Nov 1, 2009)

I just bought/returned a Craftsman 10 in. Table Saw model 21807. Cheap piece of junk was so flimsy & sloppy… You get what you pay for I guess.

So now I'm in the market for a real table saw, probably a hybrid, maybe contractor in about the $500 range. Hopefully I can track down something actually decent this go around.

I've seen the granite topped Ridgid R4511 at Home Depot & the couple of reviews here on this site. It looked pretty decent, a bit beat up being a display model at the main entrance. Being in Colorado Springs, humidity is a scarce commodity & the granite isn't as appealing as it would be where they actually have water in the air to rust things.

Sears also had a decent looking 21833 ($500) & 22124 ($750, a bit high, but maybe doable).

I've been running around overseas for the past decade, so haven't been able to do much tinkering or building. Now that I'm finally planted back stateside I'm looking to build up my shop for occasional weekend/evening projects. I have a bit of room in the garage, but not a lot, so something that I can at least shuffle around a bit frequently is kind of a must, but something really portable isn't.

Any comments on the ones I've seen locally or suggestions for something else?

Devin


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I think Home depot reduced there contractor saw to $ 499.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

How active is craigslist in your area? Sometimes nice cabinet saws show up for sale.


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## drfixit (Oct 16, 2009)

I personally will not buy any new Sears power tools. Cant say much about the new Ridgid, but I have a Ridgid TS3612 that I have had zero issues with since I bought it about 9 years ago.


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## buckeyedudes (Nov 1, 2009)

I have had a Rigid R4511 for a couple of years now. It has been very good for the money. I could find no other saw close to it. It is portable and that was a key for me. It had to have a great fence, which it does. I have had to make a couple of tweaks for adjusting the cuts, but it has been a great saw all in all. The motor is guaranteed for life.


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## GaryC (Dec 31, 2008)

I have the Rigid 3650 and love it.


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## Fallon (Nov 1, 2009)

Craigslist is pretty good, I just setup a RSS feed for a search for "table saw" here in Colorado Springs & in Denver an hour north. So far just seen cheaper ones in the same ballpark as the one I returned.

Have to see if anything pops up before I run into something my chop saw can't handle. I just finished making a shed, so I might be holding out for a little bit.


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## bunkie (Oct 13, 2009)

At $795 (currently being closed out), the Grizzly 1023SL full cabinet saw with the excellent Shop Fox Biesemeyer-style fence is a killer deal. While it's possible to get a good contractor saw, they are a compromise and are difficult to set up compared to a true cabinet saw.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

+1 on the Griz 1023SL for $795 ($889) shipped…beyond budget and requires 220v, but if those aren't show stoppers, it's really a killer deal on a very fine "keeper" 3hp cabinet saw.

If that's not possible, the Ridgid R4511, Steel City 35920, Cman hybrid, and Hitachi C10FL are about the only sub $600 full size saws around unless you look for used, or find a sale.


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## Alonso83 (Jul 14, 2009)

The R4511 seems like the best option to me, you will not regret that decision. I've been so happy since I bought it a few months ago.

*buckeyedudes* How can you have the R4511 for a couple of years if it was just released early this year? I think you are confused because one thing is for sure, the R4511 is not portable at all, at least I will not be able to set 470 lbs of machine on my bench top at all, you can move it around thanks to the herc-u-lift system, but is not portable.


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## jerryz (Jun 4, 2009)

The Craftsman 22124 is virtually the same as the Delta 36-717 and also the Steel City.
I bought one a few month back and I must say that I could not be happier with it, it cust smooth and true, no vibrations or noise when compared with the Ryobi I had before and I love the Biesemeyer fence that came with it.
I have not seen a negative review on this saw.
Just my 0.02 cents..


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## JasonWagner (Sep 10, 2009)

Spend way more than you want to right now! You'll just do it later anyway. Just now to take advantage of Grizzly's deals. I vote Rigid for your price range. Get the saw then upgrade to a decent Freud or Forrest blade. Or get the G1023 if you can afford it. I have the G1023GSWX and it's great…almost pisses me off how cheap it is.


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## Richforever (Mar 19, 2008)

I've seen good reviews on the Bosch 4100. I think it's got a folding stand and costs about $600.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

jerryz said: "The Craftsman 22124 is virtually the same as the Delta 36-717 and also the Steel City."

Jerry - There are some similarities but also some significant differences. The Cman 22124 and Steel City hybrids both have cabinet mounted trunnions, while the 36-717 has table mounted trunnions.


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## ChunkyC (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm a Delta man myself. If you can afford a couple hundred more, look at a Delta model, one with cast iron table extensions. I just got me a new Delta and it's a dream to work with. Compared to the last POS t/s that I had, this one is as good as any contractors saw out there. (Just one guy's opinion.)


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

I got a 1993 Delta Unisaw 3hp on Craigslist a few months back for $500. A lot of saw for the money. I haven't needed to, but I've started to upgrade the accessories, with an Incra 1000HD miter gauge and a Bench Dog router table extension. Next will be an Incra TS-LS for the fence. Altogether, I will have a saw as good as any for half of the cost of the new Unisaw, or other like model.

But for $500, my used Unisaw was still a tremendous bargain.

Definitely keep watching CL. Patience can score you a good deal.


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## Fallon (Nov 1, 2009)

http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/1447047367.html just popped up on CL… How mobile are the Unisaws? I really need something I can push into the corner when not in use.

I'm definitely a fan of getting the top of the line gear for cheap used. So much easier to repair & replace parts on a well built machine of any sort than to try and get a cheap new one & try and upgrade it.

Thanks for all the input, will get it figured out and snag something here some day.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

They do sell mobile bases for cabinet saws, but you would probably want to keep it in a fixed location.


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## studie (Oct 14, 2009)

Have gone thru 3 Bosch 4000 saws at the job sites, still like em tho. refurbs about $350. THEN C L 1968 Powermatic 66 for $750 made the world a better place, Like a Hawken gun "cant do any better" I am used to left tilt saws like most out now, that made me not get a Unisaw as most are right tilt. Now I hear that powermatics are better than Delta as they go to 11. Seriously though, the difference between portable/ contractor saws VS cabinet saws is HUGE. If you need the accuracy then go for the big boys, you wont regret it. Mine has a shop fox roller base but the outfeed table I made makes it want to stay put.


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## Julian (Sep 30, 2008)

Ive used and abused my rigid 3650 for at least 6 years now and it has worked trouble free for me. I cut a bunch of 8/4 hardwood with it without much fuss using a wwII blade.


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## DannyBoy (Oct 26, 2007)

Everyone will say go for the used Unisaw. But, if you want a lot of saw for the money, try to find an older ('80s -ish) Craftsman contractor. Specifically the ones with a serial number 113.298###. They were made by Emerson manufacturing and are solid. For $150 to $200 you can have a hell of a saw and spend the rest of your cash upgrading the fence and getting a mobile base.

That being said, I'd stay away from the Rigid Granite saw. Every one that I have seen has been chipped all to hell. Ask yourself what will happen to a slab of granite if you drop your hammer on it accidentally…

~DB


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## Fallon (Nov 1, 2009)

An old Craftsman is actually my benchmark for a table saw. My friend/neighbor/mentor had/has one and that's what I learned on. When I bought the new Craftsman, I assumed seeings how it was a Craftsman and looked reasonably similar that it would perform somewhat similar…. They don't build em like they use to.

I'd been kind of thinking about the durability issue on the granite as well. Given the space crunch, it will be used as a table as much as a saw. ;-)

Kind of leaning towards the Craftsman 21833 just for the semi-portability & reasonable portability. Going old school & building my own base/cabinet is also tempting too. The Unisaws and what not are impressive, but I think just a bit overkill for my needs & space requirements. I'm more of a general tinkerer (next on the list is a welder) than woodworker, so I don't expect to end up needing extreme precision of the super high end machines.

Any good articles around on what features to look for or avoid & what they give you (table mount vs. cabinet mount trunnions for example)?


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## khays (Aug 16, 2009)

I'd second the G1023SL from Grizzly. At $899 shipped it's a steal. I've got it and i've used it everyday for the past several weeks. I can say i'm really impressed with it. Accurate as can be and I love cutting 8/8 oak like it's butter 

If you can't find a better saw than the 1023 then I would recommend saving the few extra hundred unless you just don't need the cabinet type and want to stick with contractor. 

Good luck.


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## JohnGray (Oct 6, 2007)

RIDGID at HD BORG


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## rtb (Mar 26, 2008)

Rigid and you'll never regret it and it does have a built in mobile base that works very well, full steel or granet table and a bessler type fence


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## BurtC (Oct 30, 2009)

I got the Bosch 4000 with gravity stand. I really like this thing, holds calibration well and fits well in my tiny shop. I believe it is still the largest portable saw on the market.


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## gabill (May 24, 2009)

Got the Grizzly and never had a problem with it(so far).Would get same saw again.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

I had the bosch 4100, and although it's a great portable saw - it's NOT a great fine woodworking saw. I sold it , and bought the Ridgid 4511 - GREAT purchase, works great, powerful enough for the hobbist, beefy, precise, and a pleasure to use.


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## Fallon (Nov 1, 2009)

Thanks for all the info so far, it's really enlightened me to what I'm ignorant on. Gone back and done a lot more research around here & elsewhere to try and remedy that.

As I understand it, the cabinet saws are preferable to the hybrid/contractor saws mostly because the cabinet mounted trunnion is easier to adjust than a table mounted trunnion? Or is there more to it?

From what I can see around on Craigslist & in the stores locally at the moment the top contenders are:

Used Unisaw (looks to be decent condition, but haven't inspected it) $600
http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/1447047367.html
Pro: 
• General consensus seems to be a Unisaw is the best saw out there
Cons:
• Large & Non-mobile, I have 1 bay of a 3 car garage for my shop, including lots of non woodworking stuff. I really need to be able to push it up to a wall, and move it out to the middle of the room to run
• Right tilt, general consensus seems to be left tilt is superior, personally I don't know enough to have an opinion on left vs. right tilt
• 220v… I'm planning on running 220v for a welder and the circuit breaker panel is in the corner of my bay of the garage, so no huge deal, just annoying
• Overkill for my needs
• Used, condition unknown

Used Grizzly 2HP Hybrid Cabinet Table Saw (G0478), $500ish
http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/1452671856.html
Pros:
• 110v or 220v
• Comes with a mobile base (not quite a mobile as Ridgid or others, but decent)
• Good reviews
• Easily removed splitter
Cons:
• Used, allegedly lightly, condition unknown

Ridgid R4511, $500ish
Pros
• Good mobility setup
• Lifetime warranty for first owner
• Pretty good precision
• Good dust collection
Cons
• Granite top is prone to chipping & non-magnetic (both issues are kind of big for me)
• Hybrid rather than a cabinet

Craftsman #21833, $500ish
Pros:
• Mobile
• Decent review on LJ
• Iron table
Cons:
• Newer Craftsman's have a bit of a deserved reputation problem due to some models

I'd love to go with the badass Unisaw that everybody seems to think is the end all be all, but it's just overkill for what I need & the mobility & size factor probably just makes it just too impractical for me at this time. That leaves other Craigslist bargains, or one of the 2 new Hybrid saws. I think the granite on the Ridgid would just get too beat up & the lack of magnetic stuff is mildly annoying. I like Craftsman in general, but along with others have been burned by some of their cheap poorly designed junk. There is a decent review on their #21833 but not much history. The Griz 1023SL is tempting, but just a bit expensive & probably overkill for my needs, along with the mobility issue.

I can always keep farming Craigslist for the right one, but I'm not thinking I'll be finding something that much better than my current options really, with my mobility constraints for a hobbyist type machine.

Any comments on my assumptions or thoughts? Anything I'm obviously missing?


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## MedicKen (Dec 2, 2008)

I HAD a 22126…..glad its gone…..wont do it again


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## bunkie (Oct 13, 2009)

It's always somewhat arrogant to suggest how to spend someone else's money. Having said that, consider the following:

Saws are big, heavy things that are a real pain to move in and out of our shops. The contractor saw that I bought a few years ago was both lugged into my basement shop and lugged back out when I sold it about a year later. Add in the loss I took on it and it looks like an expensive wrong turn.

Cabinet saws can be placed on mobile bases. My G1023SL is so fitted. This added $70 to the cost and is worth every penny because, in the end, it's no less mobile than and has no larger footprint than the contractor saw it replaced.

Cabinet saws offer more power and are much easier to adjust for saw-to-slot parallelism than contractor saws. What is your time worth?

The major advantage of a left-tilting saw is that when make cuts with the blade at an angle, there's less chance of the workpiece getting trapped between the blade and the fence.

I realize that many of us are limited in our resources. But it's important to consider the total cost over time. Had I bought the G1023SL two years ago, it would have cost me less in total despite the fact that it was selling for more than the current price of $795 (which is what I paid three weeks ago).

If you absolutely have to keep it at $500, I'd buy the CL Unisaw. You won't regret it.


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## MOJOE (Jun 13, 2009)

I have a Ridgid with the cast iron top (not sure the model number) and it has been fantastic. Caught it on sale right before the granite top saws came out and picked it up for $350. I'm still pretty new to this, but it seems to be a nice saw and only needed very very minor tweaking right out of the box.


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

In a single car garage space, I would keep the cabinet saw with its right side extension table up against the wall near the garage door. This way, you maximize your space by opening up the door to use the saw for big materials. Likewise, you can park it there permanently and run power cable and dust collection along the wall. No need for a mobile base and you are leaving more shop space for other things.

Left tilting seems to be the more popular, but I prefer right tilting, like my Unisaw. This allows a built-in router table in the left-side extension - perfect for the scenario above. I use my router much more than I bevel wood, and having the router mounted left side and easily accessible on all sides is nice.

Keep in mind that contractor saws generally have a bigger footprint since the motor sticks out the back, unlike the cabinet saw which is hidden under the table. Just food for thought.

If you had $1000, I'd probably go with the Grizzly…but $500 would make me patiently await a good deal for a cabinet saw on CL.

Oh, and btw, Unisaws aren't necessarily the "best," they've just been around the longest. Other than the bigger industrial saws with sliding tables and beefier motors, any cabinet saw that's 3hp/single phase could be called the best from a hobbyist's point of view. Really, it's about what features you like that make it best for you. For example, one day, I will own a SawStop because I am a klutz (I don't think I've ever spelled that word before). While I have a healthy respect for table saws, it's the scenarios that I can't anticipate that might lose me a finger. So, for me, a SawStop would be ultimate, but Powermatic, Jet, Delta and others would have something to say about that with most LJers here. $500 in a new saw doesn't give much choice in that regard, but some choices are still much better than others. For me, it's still hard to beat a $500 Unisaw, and when I do upgrade it, it will not be because I think a SawStop cuts better.


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## doyoulikegumwood (Jun 21, 2007)

you can put a mobile base on a unisaw no problem and i promise it will be the last saw u ever buy and at that price you can't beat it. were i in your shoes i think its the way i would go then again i am biased i have a unisaw

and on the left verses right debate that will rage for years hers the deal 99.9 percent of all table saws are right tilt left tilt is a new thing


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## GFYS (Nov 23, 2008)

Delta


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## Fallon (Nov 1, 2009)

As it turns out apparently the best saw is the $600 Unisaw for $475… No miter guide, the fence needs some TLC, electrical tape several spots on the cord, so gonna replace that. I'm figuring a low couple hundred to get it in ship shape and we'll be good to go.

Now to wrangle a couple of friends/neighbors to help me get it out of the truck tomorrow…


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Congratulations on the saw. There are quite a few reviews of after market miter guages on the site. Should be helpful.


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## Fallon (Nov 1, 2009)

Ya, starting to do some searching on miter gauges & fence rebuilds.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

You will have to post some photos. How is the blade on it? This review may be of interest…

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/999


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## doyoulikegumwood (Jun 21, 2007)

congrats what is wrong with the fence?


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## Fallon (Nov 1, 2009)

A little banged up, few nicks around, missing the plastic lens for the measuring tape, which itself was half off. It was mildly more pleasant to move than fingernails on a chalkboard, but the extension wing & fence guide were just thrown on & not aligned.

When I looked at the plastic feet they seemed mostly intact, but one was a lot more worn than the other.


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## Rick_Boyett (Aug 9, 2009)

Pics or it didn't happen (^_-)

Ya lucky bastid..


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## Fallon (Nov 1, 2009)

Lucky? I still haven't gotten it out of the truck. 

Hopefully I'll be doing that injury free tomorrow, followed by photos.

Has a 60 tooth Black & Decker blade in it, OK shape, but doesn't seem super sharp.

I foresee a $300 order of parts going down tomorrow night.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Big Congrats, *Fallon*:

If I had it to do over again, I'd keep my eye out for those occasional $750-ish Unisaws (like the one in our local CL, now).

But I didn't.

I bought a new Bosch 4100, the digital rip gauge, and the left and outfeed extensions. With a good blade (and all respect to PurpLev who probably knows VOLUMES more than I do), I think it does a fantastic job for me. Dead accurate. Lots of power. Quiet. Not a snowblower….

But … yeah … next time, I find the $$ for a cabinet saw … or I keep killing trees on my $90 Ryobi … and just wait.

Enjoy … and … post pics!


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Get a good blade. Throw the junker that's on the saw as far as ya can. Tune 'er up, polish the top (now don't go crazy here. Some are trying to replicate the surface of the Hubble spacecraft.). Good, heavy new power cord. Then…....SEND IT TO ME!!!!!!!
cONGRATS.
bILL


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## doyoulikegumwood (Jun 21, 2007)

fallon saw center will have those parts for the fence and they are fairly cheap

oh and by the way all i can say is your lucky they don't arrest you for the deal you got on this saw

here's one near me http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/tls/1452633600.html


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

That's my saw ($500 on CL), around the same vintage. That one has a few nice extras, extension table, and the better fence. But $1800 is a ridiculous price.


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## frostwood (Sep 3, 2009)

Sound like a good saw. For me I am hesitant to buy a new saw without the riving Knife, So, I will have to wait for the G690-someday.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Too bad your not closer

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/tls/1458408558.html


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## Fallon (Nov 1, 2009)

Cleaned, sanded & waxed the table tonight. Managed to get some pictures along the way. I tried lastnight, but the camera in my cellphone was just too bad.









Power cord was literally falling apart, but I plugged it in long enough to make sure it was running & it fired on up and sounded reasonably smooth. Have a little ways to go, but it's a start.


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## Fallon (Nov 1, 2009)

Picked up & installed a new power cord, along with another CL special, an Accu-Miter miter gauge for $80.

Also snagged the proper sized circuit breaker and put that in the panel so I can actually run the saw without worrying about the [email protected] breaker on [email protected] wire, which had a falling apart cord plugged into it (only had it plugged in for a minute to check it ran).

Chopped up some 2×4's that were nailed together from the bottom of a crate to make a foot for my trailer jack & it ran pretty darn good.

Fixed the fact it was rocking all over by moving it a few feet to an apparently flat spot in the garage, it's as I'd expect 500lbs of table saw to be. It won't pass the nickle test, but it's reasonably smooth, leagues better than that $300 Craftsman POS. Once I get it all dialed in & the fence all setup I'm sure it will be even better. I may have to end up replacing some bearings or something at some point, but it's doing great already.

Any reviews of mobility bases around? I haven't managed to dig up any yet.


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