# Ceiling Height, How low is too low?



## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Out of a desire to move 3/4 mi. closer to the city center and have a more walkable distance I am thinking of making an offer on a house the city placed a stop work order on when the investor owner tried to replace the roof on a weekend without a permit. He now must replace the roof with stamped tin or sell with only half the roof done. House will take a lot of work as it is two apartments now.

Okay that is the background. The property also has a two car garage with apartment above it. I am thinking man cave with bathroom on top and a shop below. Problem, there is always a problem. It has a dirt floor so I can excavate only as low as the slab will be above grade. That said It will leave me a ceiling height of about 7 feet. Not ideal but will be better than the small space I have now. So what do you think, can I make seven feet and maybe some change work?


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## Brawler (Nov 12, 2018)

My ceiling in my shop is 7'; however I'm only 5'5" so it doesn't bother me much, I just watch how I swing long boards around.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

> My ceiling in my shop is 7 ; however I m only 5 5" so it doesn t bother me much, I just watch how I swing long boards around.
> 
> - Brawler


Yeah, I am 6' 2' and can hold my hand on top of my head (about 9') before touching the joists. If I am not required to sheetrock for fire rating I could recess light fixtures between the joists to make the most of the headroom.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

im afraid that would be a deal breaker for me,too used to 10' ceilings 7' would be a pain handling 8'-10' boards or 4×8 sheets of plywood.it depends on what kind of projects you do though.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

> im afraid that would be a deal breaker for me,too used to 10 ceilings 7 would be a pain handling 8 -10 boards or 4×8 sheets of plywood.it depends on what kind of projects you do though.
> 
> - pottz


I was in a 2D mode only thinking about boards I could swing around. I guess I would need to work solo or it could look like an old Three Stooges episode. Not being able to stand a full sheet up to move around may be a deal breaker for me too, good call potz! My fall back plans are to stay in my no mortgage location and build a shop or look at another house coming on the market that has a peaked ceiling in the old garage (I think).


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## Kazooman (Jan 20, 2013)

> My ceiling in my shop is 7 ; however I m only 5 5" so it doesn t bother me much, I just watch how I swing long boards around.
> 
> - Brawler
> 
> ...


I would imagine the local code regarding an apartment over a garage would require a sheetrock barrier. Is there one already in place? But then again, the owner seems to have a way of ignoring codes and permits. Perhaps he added the apartment on the sly. I would certainly look into whether or not it meets the code before I made an offer.


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

I've been in shops with 7' ceilings, and though while not ideal, it's not the worst thing in the world. Better than no shop space at all.

A buddy has his shop space in a converted attic above the garage, so he's only got 7'6" ceilings down the middle 4' of his shop, and the rest of the ceiling is angled until about 3' off the floor.

One thing that I've seen a lot of people do with lower ceiling shops (such as basement) is utilize space between rafters for storage, which might be something to consider if allowed to leave them open


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Look up the building code.

You can excavate further but may have to do a stub wall to back up the footings. You need to talk to an engineer. You probably need double sheetrock at least on the ceiling.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Yeah, it dates back to when it was likely Grandfathered. If I were to permit as living space a rated barrier is a given. That is why I am not going to make it income producing at this point. I think with all the variables I may have talked myself out of it. Still if I bid $70K even with all the work it is doable for 3000 Sq. Ft. not including the outbuilding with apartment. It would take about 200K to redo.


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## cmacnaughton (May 17, 2019)

I have 6' 9" clearance on 2/3 and 6' 3" on 1/3 due to a HVAC return duct that covers about 1/3 of my ceiling. Wish I had more but c'est la vie. If I have 8' lumber I have to find a place to lay it horizontally. To me that's the biggest nag…I'd love to at least be able to stand a few 2×4s vertically and out of the way.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

it sounds like with the low ceilings and the questionable state of the building and the amount of money needed to get it to what you want id walk and look for a better deal myself.no need to settle for something thats not right.


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## AndyMcKenzie (Nov 5, 2011)

For most of the last six years I've worked in a shop only about 5" taller than I am (six foot even). It takes some thought to move boards around without hitting anything, but it's survivable.

That said, I'd look for a different house. There are always at least twice as many invisible problems as visible ones.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

You will lose around 4" for overhead lighting unless you can utilize the space between joists for lighting.


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## avsmusic1 (Jul 10, 2016)

> Look up the building code.
> 
> You can excavate further but may have to do a stub wall to back up the footings. You need to talk to an engineer. You probably need double sheetrock at least on the ceiling.
> 
> - tvrgeek


this is where my head went too - there is a YouTuber who's name i can't remember who's an architect in the PNW who's shop floor is like 3' below grade - not a bad design to me


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Center of the main would need both kitchens removed along with a wall dividing the old original kitchen from the dining room. The entire center portion that housed all the baths would need to be gutted due to water rot and shoddy repairs. wall need to be move to create 3 full baths and one 1/2. Its a lot of work but I love these old houses. My present was built in 1910 and the kitchen is now in its third location. It was funny, I had an entire new kitchen built in what was a large bedroom while we still had the old kitchen in another room. When complete I just carried the dishes, pots and pans down the hall and put them in the new cabinets. After seeing people live out of their makeshift kitchen on a pair of sawhorses in an alcove this was the way to do it.

I wanted more room for family and grands but this may be a bit much to bite off, still thinking though.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Center of the main would need both kitchens removed along with a wall dividing the old original kitchen from the dining room. The entire center portion that housed all the baths would need to be gutted due to water rot and shoddy repairs. wall need to be move to create 3 full baths and one 1/2. Its a lot of work but I love these old houses. My present was built in 1910 and the kitchen is now in its third location. It was funny, I had an entire new kitchen built in what was a large bedroom while we still had the old kitchen in another room. When complete I just carried the dishes, pots and pans down the hall and put them in the new cabinets. After seeing people live out of their makeshift kitchen on a pair of sawhorses in an alcove this was the way to do it.
> 
> I wanted more room for family and grands but this may be a bit much to bite off, still thinking though.
> 
> - controlfreak


20 years ago that kind of project would get me going now at 60 it gets me going,as far away as possible-lol.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Yeah Potz, at 58 I know how to do all of this and have all the tools for it but my wife is right "you can even get the house painted" she is right. I would need to hire it all out. I think my last completed renovation was a bathroom and can remember her saying "I could have had a baby quicker"


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Can you rip out the apartment above the garage and remove the joists to make the ceiling a bit (a lot) higher?


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## PeteStaehling (May 3, 2015)

I had about 4" more than that for a while in a basement shop and it was workable but not ideal. That was for luthier work though. I don't think I'd want to be swinging full sheets of plywood or building big cabinets in that shop. Open joists help. At 7' I'd have to take the riser block out of my bandsaw or lower the stand (take the wheels off?). I could work at 7' but I think I'd avoid it if I could. Remember that my work was small stuff.

As always a lot depends on what kind of work you do. That and maybe what machines you use. They do have to fit after all.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

If using the apartment as overflow for kids and grandkids at Christmas I feel strongly that I shouldn't even float the idea of removal for shop headroom.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

I made an offer anyway but we are too far apart to even negotiate, he can have it. I am starting to see a new shop in the backyard on the horizon.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

I would probably be a substantial project anyway, especially if it was platform framed. I had a momentary freakout moment when all along I've been planning on 2×4 walls 12' high for my shed and I wasn't sure it would be allowed. A quick call to the inspectors office and they're fine with it since it's not habitable.


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## PBWilson1970 (Jan 23, 2020)

Like others have mentioned, I too have a low-ish ceiling for my shop (7'6") and it's reasonable to work in if I'm mindful about swinging longer boards.

Storage isn't so great due to many of my boards being 8' or longer. Luckily I've got some spaces for that inside to keep them acclimated.

My concern wouldn't be so much the height, but the fact that it's got a dirt floor. Does it suffer from wild humidity swings? What about tools rusting?


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

You know your ceiling is too low when:
- it is too low to build a chair to go with your new table, and you make backless benches or stools instead.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

> Like others have mentioned, I too have a low-ish ceiling for my shop (7 6") and it s reasonable to work in if I m mindful about swinging longer boards.
> 
> Storage isn t so great due to many of my boards being 8 or longer. Luckily I ve got some spaces for that inside to keep them acclimated.
> 
> ...


Yeah a dirt floor is out of the question for sure. If current owner ever comes around and I am able to purchase I have three options or a combination of the three.
1) Lower the floor as much as possible to create a 4" poured concrete floor even or slightly above grade to prevent outside water intrusion.
2) Create a berm and dig out much lower to create more headroom but the downside is space taken up by a ramp or some kind of lift and adding a sump pump or drain.
3) Finding a house mover that can jack up the structure. This will also mean the chimney will need to be removed but that will also solve the issue of it leaning about 5" out of plumb at the top.


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