# Workbench thickness, holdfasts and vises



## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

I'm in the planning phase of a new workbench. I'm thinking of creating a bench top out of some leftover 3/4" plywood that I already have in my shop. I'm thinking of 4 plywood layers with a sacrificial 1/8" or 1/4" hardboard on top. That comes to about 3" or so in thickness (since 3/4" ply is not really 3/4" thick but the hardboard should get me there or slightly thicker).

I want to use both holdfasts and a Shop Fox D4026 vise. But I have a couple questions.

With 3" or so thickness, can I just mount the vise to the bottom and add a chop? Or will I need to route/cut out space for the vise?

Will the top thickness be thick enough for most holdfasts? I plan on putting 3/4" holes as dog holes for use with the vise. I hope those can double as holdfasts.


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## bbasiaga (Dec 8, 2012)

Yes on the holdfasts. In my bench design, the plans call for leaving a 3" thick area in a bench otherwise 5"thick to allow most standard holdfasts to work. So I think you would be good.

As for the vice, it's hard to say but 3" doesn't seem too bad for a vice chop.

Brian


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## Michael1967 (Jan 5, 2017)

My holdfasts work fine in the apron of my kids' bench which is 1 1/2". I've never tried them in plywood.


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## DavePolaschek (Oct 21, 2016)

The other solution for a plywood bench-top is to throw a 2×4 under the line(s) where you're going to want your holdfasts. I have a ¾" plywood bench-top with a 2×4 under it to support dogs / holdfasts in the long direction, and a 2×8 running the other way to support another short line of dogs / holdfasts. They're screwed into the 2×4 frame under the bench-top and glued to the bottom of the top so they're fairly solid. Seems to work for me.


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

Thanks for all of the info on holdfasts. I'm now pretty confident that my plan will work with them.

But I'm still a bit concerned about the vise. Mounting it directly to the bottom of the 3" thick bench top will mean that the chop needs to be about 4.5"to 5" to account for the screw and slides. I know to expect racking from left to right, but will it rack from top to bottom with that much space?

I guess what I'm asking is, do these type of vices have a maximum bench top thickness that they can accommodate? I've been Googling around and have seen mention of it, but no solid numbers.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Shop Fox is the Retail brand for Grizzly and the vise you linked above looks like it is identical to the Grizzly branded H7788. About the only difference appears to be the paint color. Grizzly's customer service people usually have pretty good knowledge of their products so you might try calling them and asking if there is a recommended maximum or optimal bench thickness for the Grizzly version.

Also, if you look at the 3rd image of the Grizzly H8110 Euro Bench at Grizzly.com which has a 4" top, it looks to me like they mounted a similar vise at the base of the 4" top which would imply to me that you will be fine.


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## builtinbkyn (Oct 29, 2015)

You may want to consider an Eclipse Vise. It's not much more than the one you're considering. It has a quick release, making it more user friendly. This is how I mounted it on the top of my bench which is just shy of 3".



If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Edit: Here's a blog I did of the bench from beginning to end.


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

> cbbcb
> 
> - sonu388488


Umm, not sure what this is about, but since you brought this thread back up, I figured I'd close the loop.

I bought this hold fast when the seller was selling them as a pair for $37. They're pretty good, but I don't have any real comparisons. Sometimes I need to help them seat and stick by using my hand to push the straight part through the bench. But once it does seat, it work fine.

As for the vise, I did get the shop fox. It works, but it does rack from top to bottom. I'm not sure how to fix that issue. It's not bad enough that it makes me want to go through the trouble of ripping it out and installing a different one.

If I were to build a new bench, I'd consider going with the Gramercy holdfasts to compare with and I would definitely get a different vise.


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## MPython (Nov 30, 2018)

> As for the vise, I did get the shop fox. It works, but it does rack from top to bottom. I m not sure how to fix that issue. It s not bad enough that it makes me want to go through the trouble of ripping it out and installing a different one.
> 
> If I were to build a new bench, I d consider going with the Gramercy holdfasts to compare with and I would definitely get a different vise.
> 
> - Tony1212


Tony, you can probably compensate for the top-to-bottom racking by tapering your front vise chop to achieve a toe-in, I.E., to allow the vise to close at the top before the rest of the faces come together. Most metal woodworking vises have the toe-in designed into the vise. Because you have to make and install the chops on your vise, you need to build the toe-in into the chops. It's easy to do: just run the front chop through your planer with a shim under one edge. A 1/8 to 3/16" shim should give you enough taper, but you might decide to use more if the racking is severe. I installed a Veritas twin screw vise on my bench. It requires installation of user-made front and rear chops. The instructions call for tapering the front chop as I described. It works fine. It closes at the top first and the faces come together as the vise is tightened.

Hope this helps.


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

> Tony, you can probably compensate for the top-to-bottom racking by tapering your front vise chop to achieve a toe-in, I.E., to allow the vise to close at the top before the rest of the faces come together. Most metal woodworking vises have the toe-in designed into the vise. Because you have to make and install the chops on your vise, you need to build the toe-in into the chops. It s easy to do: just run the front chop through your planer with a shim under one edge. A 1/8 to 3/16" shim should give you enough taper, but you might decide to use more if the racking is severe. I installed a Veritas twin screw vise on my bench. It requires installation of user-made front and rear chops. The instructions call for tapering the front chop as I described. It works fine. It closes at the top first and the faces come together as the vise is tightened.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> - MPython


That DOES help. Thank you very much. I had no idea that such a thing as a "toe-in" existed. There were no instructions with the shop fox.


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## OleGrump (Jun 16, 2017)

One word of caution regarding holdfasts: FORGED, NOT CAST !!! Cast holdfasts will only prove to be a big disappointment. Forged will be your constant companions. Once you get accustomed to using holdfasts and their versatility, you will LOVE them. In all likelihood, a good pair of forged holdfasts will outlive a few owners. I've had mine for over 25 years, and they have never failed me yet!


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

You're good on the thickness. You really need at least 2" for a hold fast to work properly and not wobble out the hole.

The vise should just bolt on to the bottom. Some people do through bolts, but I've never had a problem with lag bolts.

IMO the Grammercy holdfasts are the best.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

> One word of caution regarding holdfasts: FORGED, NOT CAST !!! Cast holdfasts will only prove to be a big disappointment. Forged will be your constant companions. Once you get accustomed to using holdfasts and their versatility, you will LOVE them. In all likelihood, a good pair of forged holdfasts will outlive a few owners. I ve had mine for over 25 years, and they have never failed me yet!
> 
> - OleGrump


Yup. Made that mistake. I got a cast one cheap and wouldn't give them to a friend.


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## Wintergreen78 (Feb 11, 2019)

I'm just going to repeat what a few other's have already said. Toe in the top of the vise. I have one similar to the one you are looking at, and that helped a lot. Also, lining the jaws with leather or that rubberized stuff is also nice.

I bought some cheap holdfasts that didn't work at all. Threw those out and got the gramercy ones, which work great.


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

> One word of caution regarding holdfasts: FORGED, NOT CAST !!! Cast holdfasts will only prove to be a big disappointment. Forged will be your constant companions. Once you get accustomed to using holdfasts and their versatility, you will LOVE them. In all likelihood, a good pair of forged holdfasts will outlive a few owners. I ve had mine for over 25 years, and they have never failed me yet!
> 
> - OleGrump


The ones I bought off of Amazon were forged and I'm mostly happy with them. I think that there might be some user error with the issues I seem to be having. Still learning. I'll give it some more time before getting the Gramercy holdfasts to see if it's just me.


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## MPython (Nov 30, 2018)

> Sometimes I need to help them seat and stick by using my hand to push the straight part through the bench. But once it does seat, it work fine.
> 
> - Tony1212


Tony, I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you seating the hold fast with hand pressure? If so, there's a easier way: hit it with a mallet. I use a dead blow hammer, one of those orange plastic clad ones. Slide the straight shank into the hole in your bench top and place the pad on your workpiece. Then whack the top of the curve with the mallet. To remove, tap the back of the shank with the mallet and the hold fast will come free. You can often do it with hand pressure, but this is a lot easier and it doesn't hurt your hand.


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

> Sometimes I need to help them seat and stick by using my hand to push the straight part through the bench. But once it does seat, it work fine.
> 
> - Tony1212
> 
> ...


Sometimes the holdfast doesn't stick when I whack it. I found that if I grab the straight part just above the bench with one hand and push down while I whack it, it sticks. Of course, I'm not really using a real mallet. I tend to use a circular chisel mallet, so there might not be enough mass to seat it correctly.

I'm intending to make a wood mallet soon, but it keeps getting re-prioritized.


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