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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

*-*

*CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.

*WHAT IS THE BACKGROUND FOR THIS PROJECT?*
The idea and background is laid out in my last blog here http://lumberjocks.com/stefang/blog/20546. Here once again is what we are making.

""

*FOR THOSE MAKING THE TOOLS*
As mentioned before I hope as many as possible will make their own main tools for this project, but I want to allay any fears about either the tools or the materials. With that in mind alternatives and philosophy are covered below.

Personally, I don't want to be TOO obsessive about using ONLY the ancient type of tools. For example I plan to use my cordless drill for making holes and my Stanley handplane for angling the edges of the stave's and also to round the convex surface on the outside of the stave's. I also plan to use machine made dowels and shape them by hand or chuck them in my drill and sandpaper them to shape. I will also use any other tools not specifically mentioned.

I plan to make the tools below with the help of my machine tools. They can be made with a bandsaw or a tablesaw or your machine of choice.

""

*FOR THOSE NOT MAKING THE TOOLS*
From some of the comments, it is clear that some are worried about the tools part, so I have some alternatives for those folks.You can make this authentic bucket with your machine tools if you wish. That said, I won't be giving any details on how to use your machines. This is just to avoid confusion and to keep my own workload at a reasonable level.

1. Stave's have to be concave on the inside. This work can be done on your tablesaw using the 'cove' cutting
method. Info about this method can be found by searching the net or maybe your old woodworking books. 
This eliminates the need for the shopmade handplane with the rounded bottom.

2. The dado (groove) which holds the bottom in place can probably be done with a router, but you will need to
construct a curved jig for this to match the concave inside shape of the stave's in order to insure an even 
depth of cut. You may have a better way I haven't thought of.

3. The binding lever has to be made as it is necessary to force the rather tight bindings over and around the 
bucket. I will be providing a plan for this tool, which is very simple and quick to make.

4. the outside of the stave's have to be shaped convex to match the
inside concave shape. A handplane or spoke shave is ideal for this job, but it could also be done with a power 
sander for example.

*ADDITIONAL TOOLS NEEDED BY ALL PARTICIPANTS*
You will likely need the following:

1. Flat handplane for the 'cooper' angles on the stave's, alternatively your tablesaw with blade tilted to the correct
angle(s).
2. A handrill, electric or not for the dowel holes
3. Marking pencil to mark out the position of dowels, etc.
4. A compass to draw a circle of the circumference of the bucket and the circumference of the bottom.
5. A ruler to draw radii from the center of the bucket circumference.

*MATERIALS*
There were also some concerns about getting the materials needed for this project. Don't worry! You can use just about any wood you want. However, in the old days the wood was carefully selected and/or treated to suit their intended purpose. The main criteria were, perhaps in order of importance; availability, wood that would not impart a taste to the contents, easy to work with, long life and low weight to strength ratio.

Actually just about any type of wood is ok if you won't be consuming any of the contents from the bucket. So just to keep it simple let us just assume here that you won't be. You can use for example: Pine, fir, oak, alder, beech, elm, ash and, well you get the idea. If you want to drink or eat from it let me know and I will advise you the best choices and/or how to treat easy to get wood to eliminate problems.

*PROJECT TIMING FOR EACH STEP*
I will set up a fixed amount of time for each step in the tutorial blogs. Many will have time constraints and/or health problems to contend with, so I will try to make a schedule that is roomy for comfort, but short enough to keep things rolling along smoothly. Here is my suggestion for the various steps.

1. Acquire the materials, including for making tools (buy, beg, or steal). - 1 week

2. Make the rounded bottom handplane - 1 week

3. Make the lagging knife and the binding lever - 1 week

4. Cut up the bottom material to final lengths and cut to circumference finish smooth planing and/or sanding. Drill 
dowel holes and put together with dowels. Cut up the stave material into long lengths and plane the insides
concave on the inside. Cut the stave's into their final lengths and then cut the dado at the bottom of each 
stave. plane, or saw the 'cooper' angles on all the stave's sides. Mark and drill the dowel holes in the stave's.
Prepare the dowels and and use them to assemble the bucket using a steel band to hold the stave's in place 
1 week

5. Prepare the band for the handle and bend it so it sits inside the assembled bucket. Scrape off the bark on the 
bindings material, split them into two halves, scrape out the dark pith in the center of each half. cut the 
hacks in each end of the bindings and make the other necessary cuts. Make extra bindings in case 
replacements are needed and leave these in water. Install the bands with the binding lever. This takes 
some patience and time, especially without an experienced instructor. Install the handle - 1 week

6. You may want to decorate the finished bucket with a traditional pattern. I will come with some suggestions for
appropriate patterns

Although 5 weeks are set aside this project normally takes about 30 hours or so of actual work.

Each step of the work will be covered by a blog giving material quantities, dimensions, work methods, etc. The above is just to put you in the frame and to get your thoughts on how appropriate the suggested time plan is.
I hate blogs without photos, so I will be posting my own work as we go, plus supplementary drawings where needed covering the how to.

*COMMUNICATIONS*
I think it would be best if every participant blogs his own intermediate results and frustrations too if he wishes. Questions for me or the other members could either be postd own on their blog, my blog or by PM. The important thing is that we are in touch with each other the whole time to enjoy the experience together and share concerns, successes and failures. The best way to do that is probably for the participants to buddy-up so that we will get email notifications when posts are made to insure we don't miss anything. This could best be done as follows:

1. I'll compile a list of all the known participants and post them. Then it is up to you to buddy up or not.

2. It would help if we use the blog name '*MAKING AN ANCIENT BUCKET- LJ NAME OF BLOGGER'*

I hope this rather long and boring blog covers the admin stuff and gives you a rough idea of what's involved. *I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on the proposed time-plan or anything else you want to discuss*.

I will do my best to make the future blogs more picturesque and less wordy, although I had thought to have a fixed section to add some historical background. That part can be ignored if you are not interested.

Thanks for reading. Now you can go and take a nap.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


an excellent plan for your bucket-making class.
I can't wait to watch the progress.


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## Bluebear (Jun 21, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


i dont have experience making a plane, nor building a bucket so i'll leave it up to you to set and adjust the timeline 
i would like the bucket to be as authentic to history and legend as possible. even though there might not be porridge in it after it's finished… i have a lot of oak at hand, can that be used? otherwise i'll have to buy, beg or steal, hahahah!


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


*Flemming* Oak is fine and was one of the woods used traditionally. So It will be beautiful, but very heavy.


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## davidmicraig (Nov 21, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Nice timeline and well thought out Mike. This is a project I will do. I might not keep up, but I will eventually join you all at the finish line.

Do you have a recommended materials list for the tools? Will there be any step by steps or plans for their manufacturer or will the blog be geared solely around the bucket itself?

The project is coming at a good time because I have been checking ebay for compass planes and this wooden one would fit the bill for many uses.

Thanks for putting this together Mike.

David


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


I'll say this, Mike. You sure do have a way of making joining into something like this to be very tempting.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


*Debbie* glad you like the idea.

*David* I'm glad you're interested and you can just do the project the way that's best for you.This whole thing is just for fun and pressurizing folks and dictating would just ruin the whole project. Those who keep to the time plan will and those who don't won't. No problem as long as we have enough folks hanging with to keep a good dialog going and some visible results.

*Helluvawreck* I can see you really want to be with, but you are finding it difficult to change your priorities. That's understandable. I had the same problem myself. Nobody will fault you for not being with on this round. You can always do it later if you wish, and I would think most of the others who participated this time including myself will be happy to help you out if you undertake it alone in the future.


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


great blog Mike 
I will follow the toturials to see this but proppbly on the side line even thow you make it tempting 
do to work schedule :-(
but its bookmarked for a later use 

take care
Dennis


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## jbertelson (Sep 26, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


*Mike*
I am still in….......I may dedicate a particular time period each week for it, that will make it work for me. I don't think I will buddy up, I am way too erratic, mostly due to my work schedule. Also will be on vacation for one week, so that may set me back.

Jim


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## Servelan (Oct 15, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Ancient woodworkers had a lot of the same tools we use - check out the Mastermyr toolbox: adzes, chisels, drawknives, auger bits, draw plates, hammers…I wager most of the tools in the box are very recognizable to a modern woodworker, and an ancient woodworker would recognize most of the tools in our workshops.


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## Timbo (Aug 21, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Mike I wish I could participate in this, sounds like a lot of fun. I'm currently in the middle of a project with another lined up. Definitely follow along though…


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Mike, This is a great idea. I can't participate in the build right now, but you can bet I will follow along. BTW your drawings are very good.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Hi Mike,
I'm in, no doubt, and I want to go the full hand tools way, I will like to even make hand planes, a handmade drill, and so, just for the challange… I will pretend I am the cave man I sometimes feel like. (If I can't I think I have a plabe or two to back me up). Perhaps try several ways. I can't wait. For me it will be the health, but since we have a open time line, I have no worry, I can work a little here and there, and then I will keep up I'm sure.
I will be really happy if you also tell about the history part, this is for me always such a pleasure.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## Roz (Jan 13, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Very interesting topic. It reminds me of a trip I made two years ago to burbon whiskey country. One of the highlights of my trip was the few minutes I had to look around a small factory making oak barrels. Much of it done by hand.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...











I was just at Saint Croix, and saw this. And when I saw it I was thinking I would love to try and make one…
This is old ship barrels for the gunpowder, when they brought it to the island.
So life is sometimes so wonderful.
Smiles,
Mads


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


beautyfull barrels Mads 
great you dicovered them and share it

Dennis


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


*Dennis* We will still want to be entertained with your humorous comments, so please don't let us down.

*Jim* I am very glad to hear that you will be with. We will appreciate sharing the thoughts of your perfectionist mind and the words of your glib tongue.

*Servelan* I agree. Hand tools haven't changed a lot through the centuries, and most tools like hand plaes for instance are really just a more sophisticated way to hold a chisel, and so on.

*Rand* Sorry you couldn't join us, but I hope you add your two cents to our posts anyway. Thank you for the complement on my drawing. I am in fact the artistic dunce of the family. My younger son is a fantastic artist and my older one is an art director in an ad agency and also very talented artwise. My older brother was also and art director and my wife is talented at drawing. I constantly ask myself why everyone else in the family got the art gene and it completely passed me by! However, I appreciate your positive comment so much that if you were a good looking woman I would kiss you for it! (end of rant).

*Terry* I would have been glad to join you on that trip if they were making brandy. Yes, coopering is amazing, but we aren't going to be doing that in this project. We have a much more flexible approach. Read on.

*Mads* I know you aspire to being a caveman, but to tell you the truth, I just don't think that is going to happen. I and probably many others here on LJ regard you as more of a renaissance man who lifts our spirits and shows us how to make good woodworking tools, not chipped Clovis arrow heads. Sorry, you will just have to live with it.

Thanks for those great photos . From looking at them, I can say, almost with certainty, that these barrels are made with the lagging method and not the coopering method. That's because The stave's are all different widths and the walls of the barrel are straight up and down. That's how I want to make mine.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Mike, yes, old helluvawreck is very tempted; however, I probably will not this time but you can believe that I will be a lurker watching on just like one of those big catfish sitting on the murky river bottom. I can tell that I will learn a lot of worthwhile things that will serve me well into the future. Just please try not to step on me as you're crossing the river to the other side because I sure wouldn't want to be injured while being just a bystander that is looking on. That would be a little embarrassing and undignified.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Don't worry about it HW. I just saw a news article from the States showing folks fishing for big catfish using their arms as bait and getting pretty chewed up too. Hard to believe, but there you have it.


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## Bearpie (Feb 19, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Sounds like a very interesting project but I can only participate as an observer, am in the middle of recovering from a severe cough and colds! I have been coughing so hard it feels like I am coughing up my insides! I hope none of you get a case like this. This has made my chest so sore that it feels like I have been through 12 rounds with Mean Mike Tyson!(without the ear biting!)

Erwin, Jacksonville, FL


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Get well Erwin.


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


well Mike I will say it the same way as the butlers last comment
in Dinner for one (90 year birth-day) sketch-movie 
when they walk upstairs " I shall try my best "

Dennis


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## Napoleon (Sep 16, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Nice projekt you have here 

" The dado (groove) which holds the bottom in place can probably be done with a router, but you will need to construct a curved jig for this to match the concave inside shape of the stave's in order to insure an even depth of cut. You may have a better way I haven't thought of."

The tool wich is normally used to make the groove in a bucket is a homemade plane i only know the danish for. Its called a "krøjshøvl"

Good luck


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Awesome post Mike. I think you have it very well thought out and covered all the bases. With this experience under out collective belt, I can hardly wait to start our long boat and prepare for the raid on Merry Old England just the way out fore fathers did it ;-)) We can carry our provisions in out water tight wooden barrels.


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Thomas :
the english word is Croze and was used after the Howel (site 213 in the handplanebook by Garrett Hack)

Dennis


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


*Napoleon* There is no plane for this method. The plane you are talking about is used in the making of coopered barrels. 
This bucket is made with an entirely different method. Coopering was a further development of 'lagging'. In 'coopering' the groove is a shallow female 'V' groove which is planed around the inside top and bottom of the barrel. The top and bottom pieces have matching male 'V' profiles which fit into the female groove making a very water tight joint.
In lagging, the water tightness is caused mainly by the swelling of the container after it is filled with liquid. 
The groove in lagged containers is deep and square at the bottom.

I'm afraid the confusion is all my fault, as I forgot to include the dado on my drawing at the top. I will have to correct that. The word 'Lagg' actually is a reference to the dado that the bottom fits into.

I hope this will clear up any misunderstanding, as quite a few folks seem a little confused between 'coopering' and 'lagging' I will include some small drawings in my next blog to clear up this point.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Hi Mike,
I'm really impressed by your drawings, I forgot to say this.
I thought it was illustrations from the book you refered to.
You are by far not with out talent when it comes to this also.
Just a side comment.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Thank you Mads, but, the bucket was traced and the others were copied from photos. Now you have the true picture, ha ha. My real talent is….....................ok, I'll have to get back to you on that one!

Today I've been busy calculating the material quantities and converting measurements from centimeters to inches. I will be posting this on the next blog in the series together with some more history a little later today.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Laugh. Yes then you are a good tracor…
I'm really gratefull for your efford, thank you.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


No need for gratitude Mads. We do these things for enjoyment.


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Looking forward to getting started. Sounds like an excellent plan - and if it isn't, well I am sure you will adjust as we go forward - but enough to get started with.

I think if we have general questions related to the particular 'class', then they should be posted to the blog so that they can be shared and be available in one place.
People's individual projects and progress could be posted in a separate blog. Might I suggest that they all be tagged with the same keyword, so that we can search on them later - perhaps tag everything with "*lagging*"

Napping now…


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## Dez (Mar 28, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Too cool!
I won't be able to do the build along due to several constraints! 
I will be following along as I can and I *will* be building some of these my self later!
I may have questions as you go along!


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## Napoleon (Sep 16, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Stefang it dont need to be v-shaped on "croze" (Thanks to Dennis for finding the right word) it can be any shape you want/make it. totally up to you,but before you can use it the bucket needs to be hold together with all the sticks in the right place.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Thanks for that info Napoleon. I didn't know that, it sounds useful for coopering, but not for lagging. In lagging you need the bottom to be inserted in the groove in the stave's and with dowels between the stave's to help hold everything in place while the bindings are put on.


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## Sactomike (Nov 21, 2014)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


Mads, a great photo of the gun powder barrel. Wooden hoop like these were the first sort used in coopering. That Russian coopering book you sent me (thank you very much! Copies have been sent to the historic interpreter at Fort Ross, by the way, and added to the resource library at Sutter's Fort) shows the manner of making these hoops.

Notice the number of hoops here. In using wooden hoops, more were used than when hooping the staves with iron.
And wooden hoops were almost always used with powder barrels. Never iron hoops, anyway.

We have two wood hooped barrels at Sutter's Fort. I just finished repairing one that had its heads accidentally bashed in. Reparing the heads was simple. Not so reinstalling them. I took off half the hoops, which turned out to be two many-not enough pinch to get the head back in, so I had to drive down the most central hoop to make it work. Driving down the rest of the hoops created another problem. Tacks had been driven through the hoops to hold them in place, and rust and time had so weakened the wood that two of the hoop broke on the hole.

I used strips of canvass saturated with thinned Titebond III clamped in place for 48 hours. Almost did the trick, but
the hoops wanted to rise at the break. A tack with a wider head brought the cracks back in place.

I had better luck with the other end of the barrel, being forwarned of this weakness. They still had to be driven down, but I was careful to center the wooden hoop driver on the tack holes and finished without more damage.


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## Sactomike (Nov 21, 2014)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *CONTENTS OF THIS BLOG*
> I am glad to see that there are many others besides myself who are interested in ancient woodworking. In this first blog of the series I will suggest how the group can communicate and function efficiently , timing for completion of the various steps, What materials can be used and alternative methods for those of you who are mainly interested in the finished bucket and/or just don't have the time to make or use the shop made tools.
> ...


I'd like to recommend a book-another book by Ken Kilby. This one is shorter but is full of ideas and photos, and has things not found in his big book on coopering. This one is a Shire publication titled Coopers and Coopering.
If I could only have one of Kilby's books, it would have to be this one.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


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great blog Mike 
can you give the radius on the plane bottom now ….just curios to see if
I can convert an old germanstile jackplane to it 

and thank´s for the last drawing of the different stile

take care
Dennis


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


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Good question Dennis. I will get an idea tomorrow and send you a PM. One thing to be aware of is that if you round the bottom of an existing plane you will probably get a too big opening (mouth).

If it has an adjustable opening, then I assume that this wouldn't be a problem. If the mouth is too open, you will get over thick shavings, chatter and loose control of the cuts.

Rounding an existing wood plane is also suggested as an option by author of the book I'm using, but I'm not sure he thought through the consequences.


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


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maybee It shuold be a worn smoothing plane thats already have a fine mouth
but I did see Tommy on the rough cut show converted an english jack or panel plane to it 
when he made his copy of the old bombsecretair furniture 
so it shuold be possiple and if you think of the moulding plane´s they also open op the mouth
the longer you get from the bottom thats why the the english and amercan moulding
planes is made so you have to angle them in use

Dennis


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## Bluebear (Jun 21, 2010)

stefang said:


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i've been waiting for this blog all day, lol. i always get too excited and a little too far ahead of myself…
for once i'm going to take some advice to heart. i will join you on the pine adventure mike. the oak will wait until i have a few more notches on the belt.
i am off on a snowboarding extravaganza with some buddies in the last week of this month, so i wont be able to do much that week, but i think i can manage to catch up when i get back 
one thing that is very interesting to me is how the wooden bands are made… i know how metal bands are made, and the process is probably very similar.. but i've been wrong before and i cant find any information about wooden bands on the internet. (cant find johann hopstads book either, lol)... it really does seem to be a lost art you've conjured up here 
i'm excited for this project to say the least


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


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Thanks for your positive comments Flemming. The bands are fairly simple, but quite clever. They are a little difficult to install though. I plan to do a blog on it, so all will be revealed. I have to address each step in order to avoid confusion. The book has an ISBN no. 82-529-1096-3 published by a/s Landbruksforlaget in Norway. First issue 1985 and 2nd issue 1990. You might try to find it with this info on the net. I have the 1990 version.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


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I'm in some pine is affordable, and I have some so I'm ready by now.










I just recently purchased two old handdrills and a load of drill bitts 59 (25 dollar quite fair I think), so will follow your advice not to go over the top. And use this project as a excuse to restore of this set, and then use it for the project.
Best thoughts,
mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


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That is an impressive array of bits Mads. Another good purchase. Are you buying these on Ebay or Craigslist?

There won't be much drilling needed for this project. Mainly for the dowels about 30 holes in all of the same diameter and one on the plane.

I am going to be buying my pine probably today. One board should do it. We won't be using coopering math to calculate widths or angles. We will do it the ancient way by taking everything we need from from a simple circle drawn on the bottom piece.

I am buying wide enough material that I can make the stave's different widths, which is what you see on the old ones. In old times folks used techniques that allowed them to use whatever dimensions they had available. It was difficult to buy dimensioned timber in 1000 AD!


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## Clung (Oct 14, 2010)

stefang said:


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I'm definitely in! I'm thinking Ill be resawing some birch for it. Thanks for the blog!


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

stefang said:


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I'm just guessing but I think hazel and chestnut might work for the bands as well. I do plan to use willow, however, as willows, though not native to this region, literally grow as weeds around here due to some crazed bio-terrorist many years ago and nobody is going to care if I take some branches

Btw, what is the hoop handle made from? Same as the sides? Is that laminated or steam bent?

Also, I'm not clear on what the lag knife is or is being used for at the moment. If this will become clearer later, I'll shut up.


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## followyourheart (Feb 3, 2010)

stefang said:


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I, too, have lots of wild weedy willow. The problem is that it is in the ground and we are at -25C with over a foot of snow in the bush. Do I have to strap on the snowshoes and cut it in the middle of winter? What would my forefathers have done… wait 'til spring?


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


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Good point Julie. In fact, the best time to harvest trees is in the winter. The reason being that there is much less sap at that time and also wood dries out slower in winter resulting in less splitting from drying. Of course with this project many of us will probably be buying pine that is fairly dry at our local building suppliers.

Though I don't profess a lot of knowledge about this, the bindings have to be supple (read wet). They can therefore be harvested most anytime. If they are a bit dry then they can be soaked in water. In addition to being wet(ish), after splitting them in two, removing the bark and inner pith, we will be looping them around a rounded piece of wood held vertically in a vise and pulling it against this post moving the loop in the bindings back and forth against the post to make the binding even more supple. I will provide pics of this in a future blog.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


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Awesome, just awesome Mike!! I haven't been this excited about something since I was preparing to go to the 1000 yd Black Powder in Ottawa to shoot against the Canadian and English teams!!

There won't be any lynching. Come on back over here. Mike for president in 2012!!


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


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Forgot to mention, anyone who can't find any suitable wood could use rawhide to make the binding. It would be a traditional material and was probably used, if not for construction, certainly for repairs.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


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I'm glad you are so enthusiastic Bob! I am also looking eagerly forward to this project. I imagine that rawhide could well have been used as bindings where cowhide (or buffalo hide) was readily available, but probably not in wet climates. I'm thinking the Texas panhandle would would be ideal, lol. I can think that a leather strap could be used as a temporary binding while installing the willow bindings.

Yesterday I hand planed a piece of Sycamore to make a plane out of. probably not the best wood for a plane, but it was all I had that was big enough and dry, so I am just going to use it. I'll be cutting the plane parts today and taking pictures of the steps. I already have a plane blade for it. It is 2" wide. I was lucky there because I had already ground and sharpened it to a radius to be used whenever I needed a scrub plane. I had forgotten all about it! And the radius works for this bucket. Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket while I'm having such a lucky streak.!


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


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I would defiinitely buy before you loose the touch  I'm going to see if I can find some willow?? I had a fast growing wild one of some kind in the yard a few years ago. The horticulturist told me to get rid of it if I didn't want it to take over, so now I don't have any :-((

Rawhide takes quite a bit of soaking for it to become pliable. You wouldn't want it setting out in the rain all day, but for normal carrying water in, I think it would be just fine. It srinks down tight when it dries It is as hard as a rock after it dries out.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


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I remember the song with the whip crack sound.


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

stefang said:


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This bucket project looks fun.

To Mads and anyone else restoring rusted tools. Consider using Molassas and water as a de-rusting agent. It takes a few weeks, but I think you'll be both surprised and pleased. You can google Rust Removal Molasses for the details. In short, 1 part black molasses, 9 parts water. Or was it 1 part molasses, 9 parts black water? Put your parts in a double ziplock bag with the mixture, and agitate once a day. Here's one site detailing it. Sorry Mike, not meaning to hijack your thread.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


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I think they make those poppers out of rawhide because a piece of tanned leather would be gone in about 5 cracks!!


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


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Dont we need a blade for that lag knife?
Plane iron, I have several, wonder if a block plane iron are large enough?
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


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Yes we do mads, but I'm still trying to find a source for the ore and a forge to make it with, lol. An old cheap toll knife or hunting knife will do. From the pic in my book, only the tip is protruding. I makes me wonder how easy it is to sharpen.

I'm just about finished with my plane. I am using a standard 2" plane blade, but it is pretty ugly. However, an uglly cook can still make a good meal. I think a block plane blade could work, but then your plane woulld be correspondingly narrow. It would mean a bit more work as the stave's will be a over 5cm wide. The bucket will have a radius of around 22cm. I will be blogging more exact measurement before we cut the materials.

In the book only a picture (the drawing I posted and a couple of rough dimensions are mentioned. Nothing about plane irons or widths (in true Norwegian fashion). To ensure a proper build, I am using the KRENOV method and making a few adaptations for myself. I have been taking lots of photos of the build and I will describe step-by-step how to build it. That will be posted on Friday or Saturday. I can't get into the shop today, but I will be finishing up tomorrow.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


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Hi Mike,
Thank you!
I'll see if I have a knife blade I can use, assume it have to have some thickness to be strong enough to be used as a tool.
How long will the staves be (high the bucket)? Just for the milling of the wood?
I'll see what planeblades I have today (have a bad neck day, so I cant do anything anyway, but read).
I can't wait to build the plane, it's one of those projects I dreamed of, but other projects keep showing up…
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


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Hi Mads. The bucket will be about 22cm high, but I hope you won't cut the material until after the blog with more exact dimensions. Only the two 'ears' that are the longest stave's will be the 22cm height. Of course you can use any dimensions you want. The proportions of the bucket I am proposing will be similar to the 'ambar' I posted, with the diameter and the height at the top of the ears about the same.

So far the plane has been a lot of fun to build and not difficult at all. After squaring up the plane wood, it only took me 3 hours to have the plane body and the sides glued up with the opening finished for the plane iron. That leaves only the bottom to do, unless you add a horn and a push handle at the back. It doesn't include the fabrication and installation of the plane iron pin though, which I am installing after the body and sides have been glued.

The biggest challenge is getting the opening in the bottom for the blade to be correct. The problem is caused by the curvature of the bottom. It seems to me that the opening would be larger nearer the sides where the curve is most pronounced. I'm not yet certain it really is a problem, but in order to be sure, I am doing a test bottom to find out and to discover a remedy if it doesn't go well. That will be tomorrow. I don't want to lead anyone astray!


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


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Hi Mike,
I'm making a drawing for you, how you can solve the hand plane. I have never made one, but I think I can figure out the problem with a drawing.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


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Thank you Mads. For a flat bottomed plane the solution is to make a small opening where the blade comes through first and then widen it by chiseling a 45 degree hole (slot) behind that down to the edge of the first opening. But of course the curved side being higher would also be larger due to the angled opening. I have absolutely no brains for spatial problems like this or the math skills to solve it, so any help with this problem would be very much appreciated.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


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Ok guys, here are my try on the design of hand plane:
http://lumberjocks.com/mafe/blog/20698
Hope it can be usefull, I did my best…
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

stefang said:


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Hi Mike,

Ok, I am still confused with the basic dimensions of the plane.
In this blog you say it should be 2 3/4" high x 2 3/4" wide. In the next part of the blog, you suggested that the minimum width to start with should be plane width + 1 1/16" = 3 1/16" if I use a standard #4 plane blade which is 2".
Also in the next blog you say minimum thickness of the block is 2" which is different to what you said here.
As I mentioned, I think 2" thick might not be enough using your techniques with the pins.

So, I think in the end, the plane block must be at least 12" long, 2 3/4" high and 3 1/16" wide. Do you agree? or am I not understanding something here?

Maybe you can update the blogs so it is consistent or clarify.

I am still stuck at this step!


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Oh, oh, *Steve* I will have to go back and check those figures and update all the blogs so they are consistent. The problem arose because I work in the metric system and I must have done something dumb while converting. Thanks for the heads up. I'll let you know later on after I've been in the shop. Sorry for the mess-up.

I just finished doing blog #6 and I thought I could log out and come back later to post the draft which is autosaved, but when I came back I couldn't retrieve the draft. 3 hours down the tubes if Martin Sojka can't help me with it.


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


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sorry to hear that Mike 
have tryed it a few times myself 
and from that I have learned to do the text job in word and save it
and then mix the text and pictures when the time come 
its not easyer but deffently save alot of time when my side of the net
don´t want to behave as it surpose to do

Dennis


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


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Hi Mike,
Yes that was a real bitch…
I also save in word all the time, app ever 15 minutes of work, in this way I also have the text in case LJ went into cyberspace one day.
We all love your blog Mike, so head high, and nose low.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Thanks for the consolation guys, I really do need it right now. It has ruined my day. I'm still waiting to hear if Martin can restore it for me. When I logged out without posting it. posting it, my wife told me not to do that. I hope I can remember to listen to her when I get old. I had planned to be in the shop today after finishing the blog. I wanted to put the finishing touches to it afterward and post it later this evening. If Martin gets it back for me that might still be possible, so I'm still hoping.


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

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Sorry to hear about the lost work - it's a shame. As far as I know, there is no autosave on the LJ blog input. There should be. The only way is to go ahead and post and then edit. I do the same as others have recommended above. Save text or edit somewhere else and then just copy to the blog when ready to post. I'm more paranoid than the others, I save every time I pause to think ( using ctrl-s)


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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There is an autosave every 30 seconds on projects, blogs, and forums. Martin Sojka said that the work was recoverable in case of an internet disconnect, etc., but maybe not in my case since I logged out before posting. I'm still waiting for an answer and hoping for the best. I really don't want to write it over again, even if I am the most gabby person on LJ.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

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Sorry to hear this Mike ;-(( I do most of my writing in Word for two reasons. It is saved very few minutes and it shows all my Topamax errors, Even though I have recovered my ability to type, there are so many transpositions and misspelled words, it is practically unreadable at times ;-((


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

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Mike, It's a bit off topic but I conducted an experiment with the autosave. Ok, it does state in the instructions that it autosaves every 30 seconds, this is true - but unlike any autosave I have seen, it does not indicate that it has autosaved and it seems there is no way to get back to the started blog which had been autosaved.
I can only conclude that there really is NO autosave or I have no idea how it could possibly work.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Thanks for trying to help me with this problem Steve. There is an autosave feature for LJ posts, but it only works while you are logged on. If you log off the info is lost. I just got a PM from Martin to that effect.

I have to do some food shopping now, but I will be able to redo the blog later this afternoon. I should have done it yesterday, but I was still hoping it was retrievable. No big deal really.


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

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Sorry about the loss of text. We've all done it. I recently lost abouyt 800 memo records in my palm pilot. I only got about 500 of them back. My palm pilot is my life bible. I am taking better care of it now. A good lesson for me.

Thanks for the clarification about coopering. I was under the false idea that coopering had to do with the bevels and/or the curvature of the staves. Thanks.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

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great blog and picturebook as usual from you 

looking forward tothe next installment

take care
Dennis


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## canadianchips (Mar 12, 2010)

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You doing a very good job of explaining and pictures. I am very interested in hand planes, maybe one day I will try one myself. 
Thanks !


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

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Mike, thanks for this, I will scrounge for some appropriate material.

Step 9:
When sizing the opening, you use the blade and the sole. I notice your blade is already rounded. I'm assuming that if this is not the case, then you still size the opening the same way and make sure the flat end of the blade comes within 1/16" of the bottom of the sole? and if it already rounded, then you add 1/16" to the closest part of the blade to the sole? I guess this is obvious but I just wanted to make sure since many of us might not have the blade rounded yet ( since it has not been covered yet


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

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Another awesome blog Mike! I may be an enlightened purist flip flopping as time allows ;-))


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

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Hi Mike.

Wouldn't it make more sense to drill the dowel holes *before *cutting the cheeks off the body, thus *ensuring *perfect alignment?


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## Houtje (Apr 6, 2010)

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Hi,
That's a great blog…
Thanks for sharing it.


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

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Big Tiny - that would only work for the back half, since the front half has to be moved to create the plane opening but it sounds like a 1/2 good idea to me


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Thanks for the supportive comments everyone. I find it difficult to be short and concise and I'm always worried about going overboad with the text part.

*Steve* This was an excellent question. On my test sole, I just put the tip at the 1/16" line, and this worked fine, but the front of the opening on the sole has to be reworked later (rounded) to fit the curve of the blade and to provide an even opening with enough room for the chips to come through, but still small enough to allow for fine cuts. I haven't yet worked out a sure-fire way to do this rounding. I just took it a little at a time. I will show you how I did this in the following blog, but I admit, there must be a better and more accurate way to do this.

*Big Tiny* Steve is right. The front body will be shifted to the front relative to the cheek to provide a throat opening.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

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*Mike* do you know the radius of the staves yet?


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Hi Bob, No I haven't worked out exact measurements yet. I have the measurements in centimeters, but I can't convert them directly as this will lead to a lot of odd fractions of inches. However, the radius of the stave's will be the same radius as the inside bottom.

To clarify, the bottom will have to different radii. The inner radii for the inside bottom and the outside radii which will be inserted into the groove at the bottom of the stave's.


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

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If you cut the front and back a little apart, the mouth gap is formed while keeping the alignment the same. This is the method shown in most articles I've read on the subject.

Not trying to be argumentative, just offering an optional method that might be a little more accurate..


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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True enough BigTiny, but as you can see from blog, the mouth opening is determined by a combination of plane iron projection and sole thickness. This method is easy to do without measuring and/or calculating. Drilling and putting the dowels in took about 10 minutes altogether, which I consider a reasonable amount of extra work to insure accuracy. That said, I fully realize that there is always more than one way to skin a cat.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Hi Mike,
Looking good, you have done a fantastic job on the blog here, thank you.
Few questions from me also… Sorry.
Are there any reason for the sole, cant it just be the same wood? 
What about this problem we spoke of, that the moth would get more open in the sides if we did not change the layout… The plane I see in the background, is that one you allready made? Did this one show it was so little that it was not any problem?
Ok I'll shut up… lol.
Can't wait, to get started, always dreamed of making me a plane.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Good questions Mads. You have a plane body that includes the sole. To do this you will have to have a way of making an accurate mouth (throat from now on). Chiseling a hole out at an angle accurately and smoothly is certainly possible, but not easy unless you do it all the time.

The other alternative would be to cut the plane workpiece in half and then saw the angles and chisel out the waste between the cheeks (multiple saw cuts down to the inside cheek sides would help here). This is what I did with the smaller plane. You could then also cut the throat opening and then glue the two halves together again. I didn't show this way, because it somewhat limits the wood you can use for the plane body, which might be suitable for the body, but not hard enough for the sole. Birch would would be a good choice for this type of construction with it's tight grain which will work well under compression during use without wearing quickly.

I will warn you though that when I made the other plane many years ago, I had a devil of a time getting the throat opening right. In the end I just glued in a new piece in the bottom to get it rounded to somewhat match the blade. I have never built the plane in this blog, but I do think it is much easier to build it accurately, and I'm certain that will also affect it's performance.


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## Roz (Jan 13, 2008)

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Great instruction, makes it all seem simple and clearly demonstrates for me how a plane works.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Hi Mike,
I'll give it a try… I'm a child!
And then I'll stop thinking, and just do it, so I have time for one more if it's a mistake…
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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I decided not to go with the rounded throat. The next blog in the series just posted explains it. Thank you for trying to help me out with this, but I guess I am, well….........helpless!


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Laugh.
And I'm a pain in your bu..
Smile.
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Not so *Mads*, I like all ideas and criticism too, but ultimately I have to decide how to do this so it will fit into the blog. I'm totally convinced that your plane will be better than mine because of the way you think and work. However, my goal here is just to make a practical plane that is fairly easy to make and that will do the job it is designed for. If we accomplish that task then I think we will have succeeded. I'll explain in the next blog why I'm using a steel wedge pin instead of a wooden one.

Now I'm going out to the shop to take the glued-up plane out of the clamps, and then for fun, try it out with the flat bottom before I round it. I'll use a straight edged plane iron for this test. Afterward I'll finish up the horn and push block, round the bottom and regrind the the plane iron to show how I do it. The rounded plane iron you see in the blogs was actually done to be used as a scrub plane. If all goes well, I will have finished the plane by the end of the day!


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

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Mike - I am using a piece of heartwood rimu for the plane body. It's plenty wide and long and just over 2" thick but not yet planed to thickness. Your guideline at the start says to use at least 2" thick.I don't see how after I put in the pins to glue up the sides, that they could possibly be cut off, otherwise I'd have a plane ~1 1/2 high. Does this sound right? Is 2" really too small or just right?


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

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Hi Mike, I'm almost caught up to this step…lol.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Hi Steve, The plane is the hardest part. I hope you will show us your result when you get it finished. I'll bet that there won't be two planes alike in our group. If I'm right, that is a good thing.


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## bigike (May 25, 2009)

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Wow very nice instructions/post I'm gonna try my hand at one of these hand made planes. That excalbur in the back ground is lookin mighty good, that is one saweeeeeeet tool.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Hi Mike,
Love the little hello in the glue!
You sure make me smile.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

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yes yes another great toturial and picturebook from you Mike 

thank´s for taking your time to make all the work with it toshare your knowledge

take care
Dennis


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Thanks Mads and Dennis. If I were sharing my knowledge, the blog would be a lot shorter,lol. Fortunately I'm sharing mostly someone else's knowledge and a little of my own just to keep you a wondering where this project will lead to.


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

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Thanks for this latest post, Mike. Now I am officially behind though I have my wood picked out for the plane, I've cleaned up an old plane blade and I have some of my wood planed. It will take me longer than your 3 hours!

At what point did you sneak the pin into the opening? Did I miss that or is that coming up?
Does it have to be a steel pin or can it be wood like I have seen on other planes?


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Hi Steve, The wedge pin will be in next issue. I put it in early to try out my test sole. You can use wood if you wish. To see how to do that you can click on the link near the end of this blog which will take you to Blake's wooden plane blog.

I figured that if the steel pins are good enough for the Japanese, they are good enough for me. I just cut off a lag bolt which was 9mm in diameter and I installed it after gluing up the body. I'm sure arguments for wood can be found, but I just want to make this plane as simple as possible so less experienced woodworkers can make one too.


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

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Mike,
I'm thoroughly enjoying this blog.

You are doing a magnificent job of explaining it and your photos are top notch.

Waiting for next instalment like a kid waiting for Santa. 

Jamie


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

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WoW!! Mike, you are good at this. Nice work.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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How many are we that are building on this blog?
I am!
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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I'm glad you are enjoying this *Jamie*, Thanks for the encouragement also to *Bob* and *Mads*. Half the fun is doing the blog. Now out to the shop to finish the plane and takes photos for the next installment. and *Mads*right now it is probably only myself making a plane, as all the others are probably waiting to see if mine works before they start cutting their nice dry wood, lol!


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Ohhh, no Mike…
Not all of the students are waiting!
I'm done with the plane, just need to round the sole.
Yes the old race horse could not wait… lol,
I'll blog later what I did, ofcourse I did not follow the rules, I've been a bad, bad boy.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## dkirtley (Mar 11, 2010)

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I know you said that the horn was intended to help you grip. Does it work as well as intended?
How did you mount the horn on the plane? (Or am I getting things out of sequence?)


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

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David :
does a horn help…..well it most depend on what you are used to use when it comes to wooden planes
the inglish style is to make them with out horn 
and planes with horn is called German style but is used over the most of europe and Skandinavia
now remeber we talk about where it comes from

I have alot of planes with horn and feel they give me a better control over the plane 
the small fronknop´s there is on ironplanes like stanley I don´t like becourse they are 
too small for me

Dennis


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

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Mike,
I remember this song as a boy.
My Sister and I knew the words (yes easy but we were wee) and
must have driven my folks crazy.
Yet they would let us sing it again and again.






Jamie


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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*Steve* 2" high is about right and you will trim about 1/4" off that to get rid of the dowels.

*Mads* You sly devil. Your plane looks just great. I never follow the rules either, so you will NOT have to stand
facing the corner and you will get a gold star on your report card for sterling work. I'm only a little mad 
at you for making it look so easy!

*David*I did the horn for myself because I have arthritis and it makes it easier for me to hold the plane. I hate the 
Stanley type tote handles because they hurt (me).

*Dennis* Thanks for that horn round-up.

*Jamie* Thanks for the song. I hope the only hole in our bucket will be in the top. it was interesting to see the staves
with the iron bands. I suppose that's what happens when a bucket is made with wet wood and then dries
out. We want our bucket wood to be dry as possible and our bands to be wet when they're put on so the
staves will swell wih moisture while the bands dry out and shrink. That should give us a tight bucket
(theoretically).

Now I'm off to dinner and then I will be posting the next blog, mainly about rounding and sharpening the plane iron and rounding the plane bottom including a test drive!!!


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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*David* Sorry, I didn't really answer your question and I just realized it. The horn works perfect for me. The easy way to mount it is to leave enough length on the horn blank to make a round or square tenon. then you can drill a hole in the body with a Forstner bit or a space bit with a diameter of about 1" and just glue it into place. I hope to cover some of this tomorrow to show How I made it. I still have to glue in a push block on the back end and that will be done the same way.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Hi Mike,
I will say easy yes, but time runs… I spend plenty of time on this.
Will post a blog tonight.
Jamie; Here are the same song in Danish…
Dennis; not all true - the 'horn' is not a Euro thing, its a Nordic German thing, I even know in Estonia also. France, Italy and others do not have this tradition.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## dkirtley (Mar 11, 2010)

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That's ok Mike, you are getting quite a barrage of questions 

The only thing I might have suggested is to barely open the mouth (too narrow) and then do a final opening once you have the bottom shaped.

Reason 1: You can make the mouth tighter since the blade is crowned.

Reason 2: If it is thin, the mouth might chip some when shaping sole.

From the looks of it, you probably avoided both problems but for the other playing along….

Backing out the staves like you are doing is a nice, classy touch.


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

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french did have the tradition on long planes until the 18th century
well know In Skandinavian but often as a vikingsfigur heads 
and the horn on short planes is known in franch the hole german and in the Holland and 
the surounding country´s too

*I just write was John M. Whelan says ind his great book "the wooden plane , its historic , form and function "*

sorry to say for the moment I have to disagree with you Mads  
but its an interressting question but for another blog ….so I stop it now we can talk about it in CBH 

sorry Mike didn´t want to hijack

take care 
Dennis


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Dennis; it's just the way you read it. In France you will almost never find the horn, their tredition is a clean body, like the Japanese, but on lager planes they use handle (like a saw handle) and a front knob, this can have quite a few shapes, but you will almost never find the horn. So your source are not correct there.
The Italians are more inspred from the Romans also.
But yes you can find examples in both places, but it's just not the way.



You can try and make a search also on Mr. Roubo's famous work, and look for the horn. lol.

So we will not agree here, John M and I… If you quote him right.
I must admit I build my knolage on watching thousands of French planes and a few Italian, not on any historical reference.

Best thoughts Dennis my man,
Mads


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Dennis:
Of course you will find all kinds all over, did you know we in Denmark used a lot hand planes in pull style also with double handles, almost Hong kong style…
Workers have always traveled, and so has the tools, with them, so we can find all sorts everywhere we went.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journeyman_years
And I do not agree or disagree, just think loud.
Smiles,
Mads
(Sorry mike to write here…).


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

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I think we cuold descuse a hole week and more about planes 
and you have deffenty seen more of them than I have live 

realy a very nice excamle you show there 
Dennis


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

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yes I was aware of the duble handled planes 
and yes you are right tools have traveled alot too 

Dennis


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Jubiii Mike,
We are at the same point today.
Looks good, and you will smile when you see my blog also, we are closer than you think.
Really nice thank you.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## degoose (Mar 20, 2009)

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Heck of a blog so far…


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

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another great toturial Mike

Thank´s
Dennis


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Hi Mike, and all the rest of the bucket team!
Here are my blog on my version of the plane, I also still need to round the sole, and do the final shaping of the plane:








http://lumberjocks.com/mafe/blog/20803
It's a different style, shorter, and with a block plane iron.
Without you Mike I would never have even started, so I thank you a million.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

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I just found out about your bucket making class. I cant wait to tag along and see the outcome and how much water it will hold. Now on the making of your own hand-tools you have my absolute full attention.

look is that a penny?


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## Houtje (Apr 6, 2010)

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That's a great blog….
Thanks


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Here are my final blog:
http://lumberjocks.com/mafe/blog/20829









And the plane I made:

Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

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it realy does make a deasen job ….lol
just kidden you …great job as usual from your side Mike 
you hit it spot on with those little rough shaves 
compared to what they did in the old days when the work just had to be done
and fast as possiple 
and I´m glad to hear and see you made a great plane when the bottomis flat 

thank´s for sharing it was a pleasure tofollow you thrugh this toturial serie of plane making 
take care
Dennis


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

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Another great blog Mike. Are you going to do one on the cove cutting method for the tabel saw?


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

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Well done, that is really something.
It must feel wonderful.

Jamie


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## dkirtley (Mar 11, 2010)

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You really will find many places to use the round sole. It would be more work to resole than to build another one. And you already have the plane to make its hollow mate. There, that makes two new ones to make.


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## Timbo (Aug 21, 2008)

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If you do remove the rounded sole and get a new blade, you could keep the current blade and then you would have a scrub plane too.

Great blog Mike, I'm enjoying reading along.


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## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

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I'm on the edge of my seat watching and waiting for the outcome.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Hi Mike,
Exelent!
You have done a wonderfful job, not only with the plane, but also with your blog, this has been a big inspiration, and for me a invitation I could not resist.
Thank you so much,
Best of thoughts from the bottom of my heart,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Thank you guys! I did forget to include installing the wedge pin and making the wedge. I will have to add that to the blog later today.

*MADS* I guess the next work is the binding lever and the knife. I will of course blog this, but you know a lot more about knife making than I do. My approach will basically be to break the plastic handle off an inexpensive hunting/toll knife (I have several old ones), and glue it between to longish boards and then shape the handle afterward. I intend of course to hollow out a little on the inside of both boards to match the blade and tang profile and epoxy it in. The handle has to be long enough so that it can be held against the body to put maximum leverage on it while cutting the 'lag' or bottom groove. Please let me know if think this approach is ok.

The problem with my book on lagging is that there are no instructions about how to make the tools except for the binding lever which has a design and dimensions. That of course makes it more fun because we have to use our own brains and creativity. the bucket work is well documented though, so don't worry about that.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Hi Mike,
There are many ways of the knife making.
Yours are one of the easy and fine ways, not the Scandinavian one. But good.
I think for maximum strenghts I would choose the traditional Scandinavian where you drill holés close to each other, and then file out to fit the tang. I think also it should have a bolster of you intend to use the liver force, so the knife will not break out the wood…
I will gladly suply you with the knolage, or we can make two again…
I can make a scandinavian traditional, any you make it the way you propose… Yours are the faster, but only possible throughout the strenghts of the epoxy, and after my time line there were no big supply of epoxy in the middleage… LOL.
What do you think my dear Mike?
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Thanks Mads. I'm not too worried about making the tools in the old way, but In my book it shows only a short end of the knife, maybe 3cm sticking out from the handle. I'm guessing a short blade will give better control.

If you drill for the tang you would have a long blade, unless of course, you had a tang with a short blade on it. For others this method would probably a necessitate a lot of grinding. That's the main reason I'm thinking of the glue-up method I mentioned. that way a good part of a longer bladed knife could be buried to leave just the tip.

As for the cut, the book says to first score the cut lines with a sharp knife before using the lag knife. This might prevent crushing the wood fibers.

I'm not sure what you mean about a 'bolster'. In the book it just shows the knife being used like in the drawing and with arms locked against the upper body and the resulting weight used to produce the leverage needed. Does that sound right to you?

Please let me know what your thoughts are on this. I don't mind us doing it differently as it will give the others a choice of methods which adds alternatives and flexibility to suit their personal preferences. I also want you to know how much I appreciate your participation and contribution to this project. I hope you are enjoying it as much as I am. It is fun to do this hands on history study. It is such a shame that so many wonderful woodworking skills and products are, for the most part, unknown to the modern world, especially considering the impact that much of this work has had on our various cultures.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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*Jamie* Thanks and yes it feels good.

*David* Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a lot of thought before I start sawing.

*Tim* Actually the plane blade I showed early on was a scrub plane blade that just happened to be the right radius. I was going to use it for this plane, but I decided I had to show how to grind it and sharpen it, so I took a blade from a cheap no. 4 and used that instead.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Hi Mike,
I think your way is really good if you have no short blade, this will make a stronger knife.
By bolster I mean like on a chisel, a metal ring if you are going to put much force into it…
Since I'm really low these days perhaps it's also more clever you just do it your way, I was only thinking of the 'original way, but it's not so important since it's the bucket that are the goal not the tools…
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Thanks for the advice Mads. I don't think it would be easy to reinforce the oval shape of the handle with a ring, maybe I can bind it with a wrap of fine steel wire or brass wire instead. That should bring some extra strength. I saw from the photo's in the book that the author didn't have any reinforcement, but it surely can't hurt. By 'low' I hope you didn't mean you weren't feeling well. If that is the case, I hope you will be able to rest up and feel better soon. I didn't go to the shop myself today. I probably would have enjoyed it once I started, but sometimes it's hard to start. I'll be looking forward to seeing your version of the knife. Meanwhile take good care of yourself.


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## Rob200 (Sep 21, 2009)

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HAY YOU NEED TO LOOK AT THE BAIT CHARLES NEEL MAKE


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

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I am way behind so I will try to catch up a little bit with the time left this weekend. I was waiting for the part about the pin because I wanted to know if I have something suitable or I need to substitute with wood. I live 120km from any store, so it is not easy just to pop out and get something.
I am changing my choice of wood too since my firewood arrived for next season and I have a choice of some local harder wood ( NZ beech) so will start over from the beginning with the plane.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Sorry I forgot the pin and wedge in the original version of this blog Steve, but I am assuming you have now seen my inclusion of it above. You can of course just use wood if you want instead of a steel pin if you haven't got a suitable bolt available. If you don't have a lathe you could cut the corners off a square length of wood and then file and/or sand it round while running it in your hand drill or drill press.


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

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Thanks Mike. I might try the wood option if I can't find a suitable pin.

Btw, this is what Robert W Laddusaw is referring to above
Bucket making with Charles Neil

1 hour video


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Steve, you can look at my blog, I made a wood pin.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

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Thanks Mads - I have plenty of wood so I like your option and am more likely to go with it.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Mike!!!
It's perfect, we call your method the American way of a Scandinavian knife…
When this is said, then it's a wonderful way, and when you have a long blade and only need to use the tip, I see no better way at all. So it's the way to go, no complains from here… lol.
I have not hat the energy for wood working the last days, so I did not take the time to look what blades I have in stock here. But if I have a short blade I will be happy to make a tutorial for the Scandinavian way, but ony if some one have the wish, otherwise I will do what ever needed, and make no blog.
You have done a exelent blog again, thank you.
Best of my thoughts,
Mads


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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BTW: I love your hammer and your gauges!


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Hi *Mads*, I couldn't remember what the English word was for what you called the 'bolster'. Then it came to me. the work is 'ferrule' I looked it up on the net to be sure and found this link which you may or may not be interested to see. http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?12565-Ferrule-Tutorial

I very much doubt you need any tutorial on the subject, so this was just for fun. Coincidentally, the knife I used for my lag knife had a ferule like the one in the link. I probably won't be able to use it, because the blade probably isn't thick enough where the ferrule would be placed.

Thanks for the nice comment on the little carving mallet. I need to turn a new one soon as I have used this one disrespectfully on occasion and it is a bit battered.

I hope you will be feeling better soon. It is good to see that you are following with and I appreciate your comments.


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

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another good toturial Mike 
and a nice simple quick thecnic ….great 
I look forward to it in use and found out how effective the method is

take care
Dennis


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Thank you mike,
Yes I was thinking of this, sorry my English…
But just a simple ring like on a chisel, nothing fanzy, just to avoid it from splinter if you put in force.
My health are ok, I'm just out of strenghts, so I need to recharge the old battery.
Thank you for the link.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## RiverWood (Nov 4, 2010)

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Great tutorial mike, Keep up the great work


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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I made a little post with the Scandinavian style.
http://lumberjocks.com/mafe/blog/20897










Just drawings, no knife yet…

Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

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looking really good


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## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

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cool posting … can't wait to see the bucket


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

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Hi Mike. Two questions on the binding lever

1. What is the width of the pattern? It's not printed on the pattern and you don't state it. Seems it must be about 60mm
2. The pattern seems to indicate that the inside and outside bearing surfaces should be curved to match the curvature of the bucket being made. Is that your understanding too? but it does seem like you did that, so do you think this is important?


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

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great blog Mike and nice to see the knife in use 

one question :
on the drawing with the pattern to the Binding Lever 
on the bottom drawing the is twocurve drawn
what is the purpose and what is the radius of them ?

take care
Dennis


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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*Steve & Dennis* The lever at it's widest point is 72mm. Those working in inches can divide that figure with 2.54 to get inches. As for the 2nd part of the question, I'm not sure, but I think you are right Steve that the curves match the inside and outside of the bucket. I forgot about that part, so I will have to round those accordingly. I doubt that the radius has to be exactly the same radius as the bucket , but it wouldn't hurt. Maybe it would be smart to leave the rounding until the bucket can be assembled with the temporary binding (steel band, or whatever), and then round to match the buckets radius.

Unfortunately there is only one photo in the book showing the author using the binding lever, and he has almost the entire top of it hidden with his hands. There is no mention about the design other than the pattern. Thanks for calling my attention. I'm sure we will get this right when the time comes.


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## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

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Mike how many are enrolled in the class and will we get to see everyone's bucket?


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

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Looking good Mike!


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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*Dave* I have no idea how many are actively involved in this project. The only ones that seem to be active besides myself are Mafe and Dalxguy, but I'm hoping others are quietly giving it a go, now or later. If not, I am quite satisfied that two others were interested enough to participate and to contribute quite a lot too.

This project has been as much a challenge for me as for the others who have provided some valuable input and alternative ways to do things. As in times of old, craftsmen created similar products, but each did them in their own way. So while this project isn't too difficult, it is a step into unfamiliar territory. and that of course is where interesting things happen. Plus we will have some new tools, a nice bucket and a shared adventure at the end.

Thanks to everyone else for their positive comments.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Hi Mike,









Press here to download PDF file.
I made this pattern, it's a PDF and should print in scale 1:1.
Hope it can be usefull for the once that participate.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Great job Mads!! This will be a very good help to the others. Thanks for this work. In fact I may wind up using it too if I have to make another one with the proper width.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

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I am enjoying this. Too many on going projects to do this an this moment but I like this.


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## Bluebear (Jun 21, 2010)

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I'm still with you mike 
but i must say a week of snowboarding was not enough… I'm burning to get back. and yet so many other tantalizing things are tugging at me! the first grøtambar awaits 
the lag knife is in the making as i write this (gluing up)... (chose the american way ) tomorrow i will shape it and then post a blog.
the plane will have to wait until next weekend with school starting up now, i've read yours and mafe's blogs and i'm ready to give it a go as soon as i can get some of my wood down to svendborg from my dads.
i really appreciate the tutorial!


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Hi Mike,
I made the knife today, will post later. Today I have cut my self twice, on that lag knife… So I almost cant write… Yes you are allowed to laugh.
Welcome home Flemming.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

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Mike I'm following and enjoying every bit of the project.

When health improves I will catch up. 

Jamie


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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So done.
http://lumberjocks.com/mafe/blog/20897
My lag knife.
Now I just need the binding lever.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

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Hi Mike, I've been cheering you on!! ) I am marginally interested in making the plane at this time due to time limits. I have been busy with various other issues. But I would like to make a plane later. I'm getting caught up just in the nick of time to make the bucket. I am not sure where to find willow and not sure I could tell it from alder this time of year:-( I do have plenty of nice pine ready to go. By plenty, I mean a 50% efficiency rate on my part without having to find some more ;-)) I will probably bind with rawhide if I don't find the willow. I'm darn sure not going to assemble a bunch of hose clamps end to end !! ;-))


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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*David* Thanks for following with. I know many would rather pursue their own interests in the shop, but I'm glad some, like yourself, are taking an interest.

*Flemming* Glad to have you back and participating. I'm looking forward to seeing your finished lag knife. I'm also wondering if you will be blogging a snowboard project in the future.?

*Mads* You and I are putting our life's blood into this project….literally!

*Jamie* I'm glad you are enjoying this project, and I hope your health improves soon.

*Autumn* Thanks for cheering us on and I hope you do the project eventually. Meanwhile we owe you some entertainment to repay you for all the great blogs you have posted.

*Bob* You are our maverick participant with the rawhide idea. If you don't have willow, then mountain ash will work and I think Alder might be ok too. Your bucket might look better with the wooden bindings. You probably know a lot more about trees than I do, but in case you're not familiar with Willow, it gets those long furry buds in Spring. In Norway they call them goose chicks (gaas unger). Did you find enough info about the tablesaw cove cutting method? If not I will try to help you out with this.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

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I'm a bystander. Enjoying the journey. Chuckling at the "Mads just ignores my methods and does things his own way". Makes the class even more informative.


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## Schwieb (Dec 3, 2008)

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Mike, I am very much enjoying this series and would love to be working along with you but my time simply does not permit it. I did look around for some materials to make all this from and feel certain that I could work from the blog to do my own. Great work, photography, and instruction.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Thanks to *Debbie* and *Ken* for your encouraging words. This whole blog is about entertainment, hands-on or just following along.

I will be going out to the shop now to finally begin actually 'making' the bucket. Wish me luck!


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

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There has to be way to get you and Mafe in the same shop and cameras from 15 different angles and make a documentary of this. Two great teachers. I can only dream. Rand


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## Bluebear (Jun 21, 2010)

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I never thought about blogging a snowboard project and i laughed when i read that. but then i realized that there are actually some useful tools you can make for the snowboard which would be nice to have in the backpack.. all in good time 
and for now the focus must remain on the mighty fine bucket


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## Clung (Oct 14, 2010)

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Stephang - I'm still with you - I'm waiting to find a blade iron to finish up my plane, I'm hoping to use an existing knife for a lag knife, and I'll be building the binding lever this week. Thanks for the blog!


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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*Rand* I probably will be popping up on Mads doorstep some day or he on mine since we live so close (overnight ferry trip and some driving). So I hope we will be meeting up in the not so distance future.

*Flemming* I'll be looking forward to your snowboard tool blog. My grandkids might get interested in that one.

*Clarence* Very happy to have you with. You seem no stranger to knife making or plane making, or carving. After making all the tools, the bucket should be a breeze. Thanks for letting me know you are participating. I hope you will also blog your results as you go, but only if you want to. I love your work (I've seen your projects).


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

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once again a great blog from you Mike 
yes I´m still here ,more or less watching

but the pine is in house and I have started to restore some tools
and removed rust from a few planeirons so I expect there will
be a plane or two I can convert to one with a round sole 
I know I have a knifeblade somewhere in my mess of box´s 
the worst will be to find some hard wood to the binder and knife 
since I know where there is some willow I can cut 
so follow closely from the sideline for later use since I have to
consentrate on the restoring/refurb of the tools for now 
so as Autumn says you have your audience ready with coffee and popcorn 
sitting on stools ready to learn and not relaxing in some comfortable 
television chairs with build in massage option
so ceep on with the toturials ….WE WANT TO LEARN !

take care
Dennis


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Thanks Dennis, I'm looking forward to see what you come up with. That popcorn sounded good.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

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*Hi Mike,* I may know more about a tree, but that statement shows you know a lot more about trees than I. If alder wil work, I will use it. We have a lot of it. I don't think mountain ash grows here. We have lots of alder shoots and a few other small tree shoots and small vines like Oregon grape. I wish there was a good resource that tells what all the woods are good for. I remember Roy Underhill talking about a child's sled on one of his programs. He mentioned the maker knew his woods because he used several species on it for various parts. I have always kept my out for such a guide, but have never found it. Most modern resources say what a wood is used for like handles, furniture, gun stocks, ect. I have never seen a woodsman's or homesteader's guide that told to use hickory for this, but not that and why.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Hi Bob, I suggest you test out an alder branch before you decide. You can do this as described below:

Cut a tender alder branch with a diameter of about 1/2" or a little more at it's widest end. Split it down the middle with a knife that has a bevel on both sides.

Then plane off the pith down to clean wood. You do this by Laying the branch along the top edge of a plank (bark side down) standing on it's edge and clamped in a vise or onto a bench so it's steady.

You also need to secure the branch somehow. If it's extra. long then you can just clamp down on both ends and even temporarily in the middle if need be. Some small blocks of wood with a couple of nails or screws eacj can be used for clamps. Once clamped you plane it with a handplane or a spokeshave or a drawknife.

If you wind up with a nice clean band that is fairly flecible then it should work ok. The final bindings are tapered at one end, but I will cover all the above and more in the binding blog. Meanwhile you can experiment a little. I do think the alder will work though, but I'm certainly no expert on this subject, so that's why the experiment.


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## followyourheart (Feb 3, 2010)

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I was hoping to make a bucket, but with the cove method on the table saw. I haven't seen any information about that yet, maybe it's coming up??


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

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*Thanks Mike*, I'll check it out.

*Julie,* The cove method is pushing a board across a low blade at an angle. I don't know the precise height or angle, but I'll be figuring it out. I plan to clamp a 2×4 for a fence at the required angle and use push blocks &/or sticks!! ) I can post some pics if Mike wants me too, or I can leave that to him. His pleasure.


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## followyourheart (Feb 3, 2010)

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I can figure it out (I've made cove molding before) just wondered if it would be included here to save me some time.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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*Julie* Here is a great Youtube video link that shows you exactly how cove cutting is done on the tablesaw and there is also cove calculator link included that will show you how figure out the exact cove. There are jigs out there for sale, but I have done this on my TS and believe me you don't need to spend any money to do this accurately, safely and quickly. I'm will also be posting this link in my next blog. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html Welcome to bucket making, it's good to have you with.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

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That's a great link Mike. I should have known woodgears would have it all figured out ;-) That'll save me a couple trail runs.


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

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When using the tablesaw to make coves, I usually use at least a 50 tooth blade or better, 80 tooth was a smoother finish but it has to be sharp or it will kick.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Not to be argumentative Dave, but I have used even a 24 tooth blade and gotten good results. The secret is to only raise the blade about 1/16" or just a tiny bit more for each pass. it takes awhile, but it is safe and makes for a smooth cut. Of course we all have different standards for the quality of the cut, and that might be the difference in our viewpoints.


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

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I will have to try it again. The last time I tried it with a 24 tooth blade I may have been too agressive and it kicked the wood back. That's when I changed blades.

Could have been the angle or even the blade that I used as well-something to look into.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

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Really enjoying this Blog Mike unique project that even covers making the tools way cool.Great job.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Hi Mike,
It's looking really good.
I look forward to get to this, but first I have a binding lever to do, hope tomorrow… (Had a migrene / pain day, so I had to stay in my bed and ride it over).
I have all ready though so I will be fast on the run.
Best thoughts my dear Mike,
Mads


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

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looking good Mike

jamie


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Thanks guys. We are making progress. I think the most difficult part of this project will be getting the dowels between the stave's aligned properly, that and the bindings I guess.

I wonder what the guys who made these buckets 1,000 years ago would think if they could see us doing this project. They would probably think we were nuts considering all the power tools most of us are surrounded with.

I have to admit that I felt a little silly explaining the angle thing and a lot of other stuff too to woodworkers pf your caliber, but I don't want to leave anything out in case someone relatively new to woodworking wants to have a go.


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

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you were fast with this one Mike 
I just think they wuold go beserk and punch out projects like it was santa´s shop 
and Ithinkthey proppebly used an adze and drawknife instead of plane´s back then

if you want a little exstra background from the historic wiew of the Viking and his tools
and havn´t seen it before 
then look at this Vidio episode Roy Underhill made over a Vikings toolchest plowed up
by Danish farmer 
http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/2800/2812.html

take care
Dennis


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

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don´t think so ,we all preciate a detailed toturial 

Dennis


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Thanks for the link Dennis. I really enjoyed that episode. I bookmarked it too so I can see more later. I think the woodworker/blacksmith guy was really talented and knowledgeable. It's wonderful that they are teaching people in developing nations how to make their own tools and how to use them too. I would love to learn about metal working, but I'm sure I would burn the house down if I were to try it.


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

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uhhh then you better stay out of that trade we still need your small goodies 
coming out of your shop… 

yes he is talented 
I didn´t know of the chest either before I stumpled over the vidioclip
I will see if I can find out witch Museum the original chest is on here in Denmark
it can bedifficult since they sometimes wont tell people what they know 
just like cardplayers hold the card tight to the body ,silly since it is people who
pay them and have the right to see the treassures

take care
Dennis


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## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

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Looking great Mike.
This is how my grandfather would build a bucket. He built his own house from lumber he took from his land. But ya know looking back at the house I don't think he owned a level.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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*Dennis* I know what you mean about the museum thing. Like everything else it's all about money. I can understand that, but it would at least be nice to know what they have on display.

*Dave* I do admire people who are willing to have a go, and your grandfather sounds like one of those people. Your comment about levels reminds me of my wife's uncle. He is retired now, but he was the best best house builder in our district (and probably a lot of other districts) Off and on he had his young son Jan Magne with him at the various work sites. Jan Magne would annoy his dad by going around and checking everything with a level.

Another housebuilding story concerns my wife's home which was built in 1952. It was a time of much housebuilding in Norway not so long after the war and it was hard to get builders (her uncle was only 16 at the time). So they had to get some barn builders instead. They used axes instead of planes, etc. to fit windows, doors, etc. Not much fine carpentry there, but the house was nice in the end and it's still in good shape!


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

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Interesting stories Mike. We were in Misiouri visiting my wife's relatives. Driving along a road we saw a sign about the Levi Snelson cabin!! That was her gg or ggg grandfather. We stopped to see it. His cabin was used for the first courthouse in what would become the state of Missouri. It was near the Trail of Tears the Cherokees marched to Indian Territory. Many of the Indians still will not use $20 bills because of Jackson's picture on them. One of his family was killed by Indians, so he was a bit harsh, I guess.

Anyways, back to business; the instructions are well written. I have a minor migraine going and only had to read it a couple times, so yoiu know it is easy to understand!! )

mafe, sorry to hear of your episode. I feel or have felt your pain, literally!! I'll PM you.


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

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Hi Mike,

I'm trying to size the length of my staves. What is the difference in size between the short staves and the two long staves for the handles?


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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Hi Steve. I have done my long stave's a couple of inches longer than the short ones. I doubt there is a rule for this though. I think you should just use a length that gives you the look you want. I'm pretty sure that's what they did in the past. The drawing of the bucket from the earlier blogs will give you an idea what the author of my book on this subject preferred. It seems you are making good progress now. It will a little time before I come with the next blog as I have been very busy with everything but woodworking this past week.


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

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Thanks Mike - I am not there yet either. I just needed an informed opinion of what might look right as a starting point so I can gather the right length materials.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

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*Today's blog is about planing the stave's inside concave surface and planing the edge angles.* First our logo photos of the bucket we are making and the tools to make it with.

""

""

*PLANING THE CONCAVE INSIDE OF THE STAVE'S*

Yesterday's blog shows me planing the concave side of the stave's. I continued with that until I had enough to do a test assembly. In photo 1 below you see the still flat outside of the stave's I've planed and I have also planed the angled edges which I will tell more about below. I've taped up the stave's to see what a partial assembly will yield. You can see the concave shapes in photo 2 and the half round in photo 3 and sitting upright in photo 4.

You might notice that I managed to cut the stave's different lengths leaving a somewhat wavy top edge (I like diversity). The important thing is that the bottom edge is aligned because the bottom edge is the reference line for the dado which the bottom will sit in. The stave's top edge's will be whipped into order after the dados are cut.

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""

""

""

Photo 5 is just an outside view of the temporary assembly.

""

Here you see my planing set-up on my sliding beam bench. This worked better than clamping them between the dogs on my workbench because my material is so thin (3/8").

""

*PLANING THE EDGE'S OF THE STAVE'S*

As I mentioned yesterday I set my bevel finder to the angle indicated which is 15 degrees. Then I marked the angle on each stave on the top and bottom edges. Then I just free handed the planing on my upside down jack plane while it was clamped in my bench. This worked very well and very easy and the angles were very accurate. But without an angled fence you do need the marks to follow as you plane. All-in-all pleasant work and quickly done. I hope you will give it a try. In the photo below you can see that my jack plane has grown a beard.

""

*WHAT WENT WRONG?*

I enjoyed myself so much today that I began to think that everything was going almost too well. Well, I was right! Here is a list of what went wrong.

1. I continued to assemble the stave's with tape around the bottom circle as I went. When I was just short one stave, it became apparent to me that I had misjudged the width of the stave's need to complete the circle as laid out on the bottom piece. I won't waste your time with excuses and yes I do know coopers math, but somehow I bungled it anyway. It wasn't easy! Ok, this is not a big deal. It only means that the bucket diameter will be a little less. The main problem will be adjusting the bottom to the new size and of course my hurt pride. Luckily I haven't cut the bottom round yet, so I just need to find out the new diameter and mark it on the bottom. Photo 1 below shows that temporarily assemble bucket and photo 2 is an inside view.

""

""

2. Coping with the 'Weeping Stave' This is the last stave that goes into the bucket, and it is aptly named as it almost had me in tears. Hear that girls? Proof that I am a modern sensitive man. The width of the last stave compensates for small errors in widths which are mainly caused by planing the angled edges too much, and errors in judgement like I made, plus the old timers didn't have the math (and they still did it better than me!). The photo below shows the bad joint.

""

The challenge here is to get the right width for that last oddball stave and also the right thickness. I managed to tape the bucket together minus the last stave and somehow estimated the width needed to fit the opening. I almost got that right, but the material was way to thin over the great round distance and therefore the outside of the stave didn't match up with the other stave's. So tomorrow I have to make a new 'Weeping Stave'. Wish me luck.

Thanks for reading and please make your own mistakes and not copy mine, lol. Thanks for reading this.


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

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Hi Mike,
Excellent progress. I can't wait to be making the mistakes you are making ( and probably new ones!)


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

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great blog and picturebook once again …thank´s Mike

take care
Dennis


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

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Hi Mike,
I love the bearded plane.
It's not untill now I discovered that your plane has a doubble back handle, sweet little detail.
Once again a wonderful blog, and I'm a little behind here in Copenhagen, but I will see if I can do a little tomorrow.
Question; I do understand right that the staves are same with in top and bottom? The bucket is straight up and down…
I'm happy to hear you make mistakes, now I know that you are human, I thought for a while you were a Super Mike! lol.
To hear that you are a 'soft' modern man, this was no surprice, this I did know, and this is one of the reasons I love your company and words here always.
I also love divesity, so I was thinking to make the stafs different withs, do you think this will give me problems?
So I will try to do my own mistakes, usually I do good in this…
Best thoughts, and thank you for sharing this wonderful day of yours, you did a really nice job, so do not weep too much with that weeping stick,
Mads


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

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> ...


great progress here mike

i can imagine the old timers siting around a fire
and making buckets (grog probably) lol
and having enough odd pieces too
maybe enough to make a bucket 
for the wives

great blog
and well done

and us soft sensitive guy have to have something to do


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## DrAllred (Sep 2, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Today's blog is about planing the stave's inside concave surface and planing the edge angles.* First our logo photos of the bucket we are making and the tools to make it with.
> 
> ...


Please explain the math used by Coopers….

Now that I see a bucket, maybe I'll add it to my Bucket list to do…

Great work, I am enjoying this and maybe one day I will have the time to make one myself.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Today's blog is about planing the stave's inside concave surface and planing the edge angles.* First our logo photos of the bucket we are making and the tools to make it with.
> 
> ...


gotta love a sensitive man 

It's good to read about the "back-up plans" and how to adjust to … challenges.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Today's blog is about planing the stave's inside concave surface and planing the edge angles.* First our logo photos of the bucket we are making and the tools to make it with.
> 
> ...


Thank you all for your very nice comments and kind thoughts. I am mostly worried about making mistakes that will bring other participants to our courageous little group a lot of grief. I am now going to post a little interim info blog. I believe I have this thing figured out now.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

*-*

I don't know about you, but I hate blogs without pictures, but I have to do this one quickly so others won't make a similar mistake to myself.

*EXPLANATION*
My personal goal with this project is to do it as much as possible like the old days. That means not using cooper math to calculate the width of the stave's. The book I am following just gives a radii for the bucket bottom, and a width to use for the stave's. *It does not explain how that stave width was derived*. I somehow got sucked into not using the cooper calculation, but without any other way to determine the width of the stave's.

I am very unhappy about not maintaining the planned diameter drawn on the bucket bottom. That would ruin the whole project for me and perhaps others. Last night I tried to think of how ancient man would be able to physically calculate the stave width needed. I have come up with a very simple solution that could very well have been used by early bucket makers.

The other unsatisfying aspect has been determining the edge angle for the stave's. Of course we know that 12 stave's requires two 15 degree edges on each stave, but early man again could not calculate the required angles. Once again, the explanation in the book is VERY fuzzy. However I also have come up with a plausible solution to how that might have been done.

*AM I A GENIUS?*
Hardly. Coming up with the solutions required no above average intelligence or creative abilities. It's just that we don't need these solutions today, so we never think about them.

*OK, SO WHAT ARE THE SOLUTIONS?*
I'm not being coy, but I'm going to tell you in this evening's blog (this evening in Norway). I want to show you with photos how to do it. Meanwhile, if you are tired of beating around the bush, here is the cooper math to calculate the width of your stave's.

*1. Stave width*
(Outside bucket diameter X pi) divided by the no. of stave's = Stave width

*pi = 3,14159265*

*2. Edge angle of stave's*
( 360 degrees divided by the no. of stave's) divided by 2 = edge angle for each side of stave.

I would urge you to use my old method and just use the calculation to check it' accuracy. My reason is, that with the 'old method' you will not be exact enough for you stave's to all be exactly the same width. That means you will be faced with the ancient problem of the much feared 'Weeping Stave' to enrich your journey back in time.

*MY PERSONAL PLAN OF ACTION*
I went out and bought some new pine today. I am going to do this thing over again *the right way*. This time I bought 3/8" thick materials which were closest to the 3/4" that I specified to everyone earlier. This thickness should work well and give me more comfort than the 3/8" which I so stupidly resawed to the first time. That said, many of the ancient buckets were made as thin as 1/4" thick. I'm not ready for that challenge yet!

*PARTICIPANTS BONUS*
Those of you who complete this project will receive a wonderful bonus. It is not cash or material, so don't go out and buy that new car yet or add a new wing to your house. You will be pleased with it though. I am saving this for a pleasant surprise. It will come in the form of information. We are after all children of the information age, so this seems an appropriate bonus to me.

Thanks for reading this non illustrated version of the bucket blog.


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> I don't know about you, but I hate blogs without pictures, but I have to do this one quickly so others won't make a similar mistake to myself.
> 
> ...


never use much math myself

geometry tells me
that a point with 6 equally intersecting lines
as a star pattern

(will have the 30deg. angle between them
hence 1/2 of that is the 15 deg. angle of the stave)

this is just for maths sake

the angle can be picked of the drawing
regardless of the number of sides

drawing a circle from the center point anywhere
will give the stave width at that point
the angle never changing
regardless if it is 3" or 5' or 10miles

i do agree that making the staves first
is the way to go
then the diameter of the bottom
can be picked from that

this is just me
i don't remember that far back in my youth
but i may have been there then

only my lobotomist will know for sure

thank you mike
well done !


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> I don't know about you, but I hate blogs without pictures, but I have to do this one quickly so others won't make a similar mistake to myself.
> 
> ...


Mike a super blog , I guess I'll have to wait for the "but wait there's more" part of the blog. I like your style, always have. Well done My friend.

Thank you too. professor Patron.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> I don't know about you, but I hate blogs without pictures, but I have to do this one quickly so others won't make a similar mistake to myself.
> 
> ...


Hi Jim. Do you know what David was taking about? Seriously though, I always think of geometry as a form of math even if it isn't.

Thanks for those nice and somewhat complicated comments guys. Now I'm off to do the next blog showing how I reinvented the wheel without brains (this is no mean feat, believe me!).


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> I don't know about you, but I hate blogs without pictures, but I have to do this one quickly so others won't make a similar mistake to myself.
> 
> ...


I don't have a clue Mike ,but it's clear David does just look at the cool stuff he makes.


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> I don't know about you, but I hate blogs without pictures, but I have to do this one quickly so others won't make a similar mistake to myself.
> 
> ...


so eating 
is a form 
of agriculture

even if it isn't ?

look forward to the new wheel


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> I don't know about you, but I hate blogs without pictures, but I have to do this one quickly so others won't make a similar mistake to myself.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike,
You do make me laugh thank you.
Who is Patron?
Look forward to hear the news tonight.
I have also decided that you will recieve a present when the project is over, but I will need a little time for this, so you have to be patient, so you will also have a 'price' if you suceed… (Hope you do).
Next week I will not be able to work on the challange, so I might be a little delayed for my part (sorry).
Best thoughts my dear Mike,
Mads


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> I don't know about you, but I hate blogs without pictures, but I have to do this one quickly so others won't make a similar mistake to myself.
> 
> ...


You are very insightful, Mike. I even hate books without lots of big pictures and I never judge one by the cover, I look for the pictures before making any judgment about it ;-))

My guess is the first man to make the first bucket probably made his staves, arranged them around the bucket and used the weeping stave to finish it off. The second bucket probably had a different number of staves. Bucket making probably proceeded as a trial and error process through the first few million before any math or consistency emerged.


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> I don't know about you, but I hate blogs without pictures, but I have to do this one quickly so others won't make a similar mistake to myself.
> 
> ...


well, since I have a degree in mathematics, this is a blog I can really understand!

Patron and Mike are both right.

Mike - your method is likely the 'modern' method as it is strictly analytical and assumes staves can be cut to exact dimensions and angles planed to precision.

Patron's way is a bit more intuitive and relies on forming a full scale drawing and taking measurements from the drawing.

Keep in mind that the math we are talking about here is Euclidean geometry which has been around for a long time already and euclidean geometry works as long as we are standing on earth 

My own theory would be something in between. Assuming that staves were cut by riving logs, it is quite likely that stave widths were variable but vy using a full scale drawing of the outside diameter of the desired bucket, the angles can be read off the drawing for each individual piece.

In timber framing, it is typical to draw the plan on the ground using a series of circles and straight lines and to then take measurements from the full scale drawing. This way, no math is required for angles and lengths of pieces needed to construct the frame or laying out the plan in the first place.

Just my opinion and thoughts.


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## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> I don't know about you, but I hate blogs without pictures, but I have to do this one quickly so others won't make a similar mistake to myself.
> 
> ...


I can do gozintas… you know 2 gozinta 4,,, 2 times…
I know this because i have 30 years of education.
I went through the tenth grade 3 times. 

Great blog Mike


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

*-*

*This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

*CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S*

*Step 1. The bottom as a starting point*
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

*Step 2. String theory*
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

*Determining the edge angle*
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

*Step 1. prepare a mock stave*
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

*PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS*
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

*The stave width*
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was *82.3cm* resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of *84cm* using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

*The angle*
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.


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## swirt (Apr 6, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Incredibly clever and simple approaches. Fun to read.


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike. Excellent demonstration!

The last part of laying out the angle is exactly how i would imagine doing it but I still contend that staves of equal width is not important and was not likely the case. I think if you measured the staves of the Ikea bucket (from their annual 1050 catalogue), you would find the staves to be of uneven width.The last stave is sized to fit the space remaining and you can see that in the picture.

The exact centre of a circle can be found using a compass and a straightedge alone using simple geometry . If they could draw a circle, I assume they had something like a compass.

The laying of the stave on the circle as you have done will give you the precise angle to cut that piece. It is not even required to know what that angle is and it does not matter how many staves you have or how wide they are. No math required whatsoever


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike,
Interesting thoughts, and what a way you have walked, thank you.
I do not agree though.
I think it was more simple, so I think they made first the bottom, and then made one staf at the time, set it on the edge of the bottom and adjusting the angel to the previous, in this way they needed no math, and no angels, just sence, and practise. The circle could be made with a string or a rod and a knife. I do belive it's why the last staf have a funny name.
I build my theory only on assumptions. I assume, most people would be able to make one, but not all had the ability or and the tools to make it mathematical or even a constructed angel. I also assume the wood would varie in thickness and with, du to the fact they would try and use all, and that it was made by hand, probably often only with drawknifes, and wooden spokshaves.
I have made a PDF that shows my thoughts download by click here.
Best thoughts,
Mads

Here some inspiration:
http://www.willadsenfamily.org/sca/danr_as/bucket/Viking_Bucket.pdf
http://www.buzabunch.com/bucket_making_at_tillers.htm


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Mads - you and I are saying the same thing but having a picture helps. We both agree that no math is required whatsoever.

Also, your conclusion that thinner or narrower is less wasteful is interesting, though thinner might have implications on strength and narrower means the number of staves is increased and therefore requires more of them to be fitted. Since staves were likely rived, both width and thickness probably varied to a point. I only considered variable width but both variable width and thickness can be handled with this method.

So, have we discovered the secrets of the vikings? How to build a bucket with only a length of twine, a piece of charcoal and an axe?


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Daltxguy …...LOL

Mike thank´s

Dennis


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## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


I believe all ancient structures or projects were built with water, twine, time and sweat. One tool makes another. You have to use what you have on hand.
Take a mule vs a tractor. You only have two men and a mule working a field. One man is cutting timber in a bottom. He fells the tree, ties it to the mule and the mule drags it to another man on the other side of a hill hill. Try to get a tractor to do that.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


One more important thing is to turn the stafs right way!










The wood you use are cut like the one on the left, so it will curve outwards in the ends.

This will secure that the movement in the wood don't make the bucket loose the water…
My problem is that eighter way it will be a problem… So perhaps the clever thing will be to change front-back-fron-back… in this way the gaps will not grow.
Hmmmmmm, perhaps I just think tooo much!
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


(*Standing ovation!!* ) Mads, the rived staves would be like the one on the bottom. That would be the most likely, IMO.

Mike, I don't think they went to all that trouble. I doubt if they measured anything or marked much. A craftsman who works with tools all day everyday just does it. I serioulsly doubt if a "dovetailer" in a production shop in the middle ages used a markig gauge. If you look at the picture of the bucket laid flat in the book picture above, the staves lok random width, there looks to be 2 weeping staves and top edges seem to be evenly worn wiht very little breakage. I think that all supports a stave whipped out n a few minutes, set around the bucket's bottom which was what it was, certainly not precise, and it was assembled.

At any rate, awesome blog as usual.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


We have to try and remember that they did not buy wood in those days at the local store. They would do things fast and easy, so they would split the wood with a axe or froe, and then shave the stafs in app. thickness. Next step would then be to get around that bucket bottom…
http://www.heartofthewood.com/riving2.htm
Smiles,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Many good and valid thoughts here guys that I totally agree with. The methods you have described are in fact very well documented. And as Bob said, the craftsmen were surely so practiced that the could probably do these things without measuring anything at all, although I do think they might have used templates to some extent.

However, we have the problem that most of us are buying lumber in a uniform width or we are cutting it a uniform width for convenience. I did consider cutting different widths from wider stock, but I was worried about messing this up. Maybe I should have tried it anyway to be more authentic. I don't want to do that now though because my new stock isn't really wide enough to give a proper range of widths and it is too narrow to get the diameter I need if I make it even narrower. Some others might have the same problem.

Would it be valid to assume that the basic construction of these containers remained the same over a very long period, but that the methods used to do the work and the way of arriving at stave widths and edge angles perhaps evolved quite a bit and that craftsmen perhaps became more desirous of uniformity? If so, that leaves us with the dilemma of picking our methods. That is, how ancient?

Mads, thank you for reminding about the importance of the grain orientation. The best material would be quarter-cut for stability, but with the materials we can get today we just have to orient the pith to the buckets outside as you also point out in your illustration. Another way stave's were often created in the past was to cut them out with a curved iron directly along the end grain of a log with the open side of the iron's curve on the outside of the log. This open side which would naturally curve even more with drying would then be oriented toward the inside of the bucket. So the need for sawing/shaving/planing both sides of each stave were greatly reduced.

Please let me know your thoughts on how you think we should proceed. Do you intend to use different widths and angle them as you go?, or will you have uniform widths calculated with coopers math?, or should we use some primitive method similar to the one in my blog? We can of course all do this however we want to individually, but since we are all interested in authenticity It would be nice if could reach a consensus on how to proceed.

Thanks everyone for all this great input and the interesting discussion around it. I look forward to hearing more from you on this subject.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike,
I would love to try and make the bottom forst, and then one staf at the time in different withs, but I can do a temporary bottom and set them arround, then cut the grooves after like you.
But I have not been in the shop today, so perhaps some hours tomorrow.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Update:
http://lumberjocks.com/mafe/blog/21023


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike, I won't be pushing a plane. Other hand work depends on shoulder stress. Rotary cuff is a little upset with me. I over did it trimming trees at the Tree 
Farm last summer. ;-(( Random widths and odd angles could get to be a bit of a pain if time is limited. If you really want to be authentic, fitting each as you go should be easily accomplished is time is not an issue.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


So!










This is status now. I will post my pictures of how I got there asap but it might be in a day or two.
Next week I will be off class, sorry Mr. teacher Mike (Hope I give you no grey hairs)!
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Is it allowed to use silicone?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.










Laughs!

Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Mads I am more the pupil here learning from you and the others than the teacher. I more of an 'instigator' (sounds a little dangerous, it must be good) Great result on your bucket so far. Silicone is definitely not allowed, but there will be no prizes given out for a leak free bucket anyway, so no problem there.

I got just enough shop time in yesterday to get the new and improved bottom finished. I had to do other things than woodworking today, so no progress. I am glad you will be away for a few days as this will give me time to catch up with you, and maybe the others will be blogging their progress in the meantime. As for the gray hairs, they are already totally gray, so no worries about that. Enjoy your days off.


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## Roz (Jan 13, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Very instructive, thank you.


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike. Ok, this must be the authority on how angles were determined and how stave widths were not a consideration, as long as the overall circumference was correct. These are brilliant! No explanation required!


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Very possible Steve, to me the methods being used here for coopering looks like a more modern version of a method that could well have some similarity to how the ancients did it.

I'm still not entirely convinced that the ancients relied only on their eye to determine angles, and using different individual stave didn't necessarily preclude calculating aggregate stave widths using a method similar to that shown in your illustrations.

Consistency in sizing might have been important to customers who wouldn't want to feel short-changed, or who wanted vessels that could be used to measure out quantities without have to weight them, etc. I've always been amazed to read just how organized ancient craftsmen were with guilds and standards for their work.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


I have never been around a cooper or any other full time WW for that matter, but watching a good fairer fit horse shoes is amazing. In just a few minutes of trial and error fitting by eye, he is done. If he is wrong, you have a horse that can't walk right now and lots of potential joint problems in the future. IMO, after having seen people who work with tools everyday reach an unimaginable level of basic skill and production speed, making a basic straight walled bucket should have been rather easy for the early WWs.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Topamax: what does this IMO means, now I have seen it so many times in your post that I have to ask?
I do agree in the skill level, but still it is likely they could have had a marker for the initial part.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## swirt (Apr 6, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


IMO - In My Opinion
IMHO - In My Humble Opinion


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I didn't see your question Mads. Been out making firewood ;-)) I'm sure they used everything they had and could dream up. All I am saying is the level of skill aquired by a craftsman is unimaginable to a casual hobbyist.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


There was an example of what I am talking about on the 2nd episode of Rough Cut with Tommy MacDonald on PBS. I recorded it yesterday as were out and about. I was just watching it. He is having Allen Breed demonstrate cutting dovetails. He set a marking gauge to thickness. Used his chisel to mark off 3 tails, let the dovetail saw hang from his finger as it cut so they would be plumb. The chisel chopped out the waste in a cut from each side as they were the width of the chisel. He used the pins to mark the tails, let the saw hand plumb to cut the pins and chopped the waste in a few whacks. Took me longer to type the description than it did for him to dovetail the joint!!

I googled trying to find a vid link, but none to be found ;-((


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Topa, try to look at my guess:
http://lumberjocks.com/mafe/blog/21077
Thank you for the info, it is fine IMO… Smiles.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Look here:
And here are the answer to what the French do:









http://ecole2chenes.free.fr/travaux/annee2005_2006/tonnelier/source/2dolage2.htm
Smile:
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Hi Mads, thanks for the link. This is coopering and not lagging like we are doing. Some things are similar such as the long upside down plane. I seems that their tools like the 'Clef' were used for creating identical parts and they would have several of these for different sized barrels with all the necessary dimensions angles and curves marked out for each size.

I can think that the lag guys also used something similar, but I don't know what, and I doubt we will ever know. As a profession I can imagine that lagging completely died out when coopering became the standard method to make wooden containers. I think many farmers and probably some professionals continued with lag work for quite a while, but it would be hard to find their measuring tools. It sure would be interesting to see if we could find some info on it though.

Besides being a better a better technical solution, the tapered shape of coopered barrel and the steel bands holding them together allowed for the barrels to be easily delivered, They could be taken off a cart and simply rolled into the customers place of business. With the tapered ends not touching the ground it was very easy to 'steer' the barrel while rolling them around.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike,
Interesting thank you.
First of all I had no idea why whe barrel had that shape, quite clever.
Yes I see it also differently, but also quite the same, and I can easy imaigne that ways and tools have passed from this lagging to barrel making.
I think we just have a hard time to imagine things simple today, we want answers, ways rules.
We are to focused on effectivity.
It's like when you use this lagknife, it seems 'primitive' compared to a plane, but if that was the tool at hand, of course this was what they used. If the plane was not invented, how could it have been used… Or even more be in the thoughts of someone.
But also it shows a positive side of us humans, we want to find new and better ways, by nature, we cant just do, we question. And un this way you came up with a way with the string, and this inspred me to the marker, and this is how we develop.
I am aware of that it's cpooering and not lagging, but yet we spoke of tools to detrmin angels, and I think these could have passed from lagging to coppering. (Also we see it in the Russian book).
Mike we are becoming interlectuals here… we have to make room for our cavemen again Lol.
Best thoughts, 
Mads


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Mike, is steering the primary reason for tapering a barrel?


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


Here are some videos on the modern production of barrels in the Cognac region of France. The woodworking aspect is now all automated but still fascinating and instructive, as the process has not changed.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


*Mads* Saws were also used to do the lag with. It is a small curved handsaw and I've even seen one mounted in a wooden from and revolved like table saw. So you just lay the stave into the frame and crank the handle to do the work of the lag knife. The waste still has to be chiseled out though.

The handsaw can be shop-made out of two pieces of would with a handle and a concave shape seen from the side. The saw blade is mounted between the two wood piece and I suppose the holes going through the sides of the saw frame could be slotted. That would allow for the blade to be adjusted to the proper depth of cut.

I didn't bring this into the project because I felt that too many elements would just be too complicated and slow thing down too much.

*Bob* I'm not sure. If barrels were transported packed together in the hold of a ship or on a cart. then it would be a lot easier to get a grip on the barrel to get it out of the hold or off the cart. On the other hand it seems that barrel were often stacked laying down. So it seems reasonable to assume that handling and moving them might be a good reason for their shape. I can't think of any other reasons offhand.

*Steve* Thanks much for the videos. I have to go now, but I will be taking a look at them later.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind.* First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.
> 
> ...


It possible adds a bit to the structural strenght. It is slightly trianglization (if that is a word?).

I'll take a look at the French too, thx .


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

*-*

I haven't been in the shop since Thursday and even then only for a short time. You might know that I wasn't happy with my first bucket attempt because the diameter I planned wasn't happening. I will still finish that first bucket, but I started a new one hoping to come in on target this time.

On Thursday I only had time to make up a bottom for the new ancient bucket, then I started fooling around trying out a new way to get the correct angles on the edges, but this time with a method that would cater to different widths in the stave's. So at the risk of boring everyone or creating some controversy I will show you what I came up with. First our logo pics of the bucket we are making and the shop made tools we will use to make it with.

""

""

*A METHOD TO DETERMINE STAVE EDGE ANGLES USING ONLY STRING*
Judging from the feedback of my last blog where I attempted to show primitive methods for determining stave widths and edge angles, it was a consensus that my suggested methods which I implied could have been used where probably not valid.

Everyone did seem to agree though that the ancients had string, so I've come up with a new theory for how they might have used it to determine edge angles. I thought this method might amuse you if not impress you, but of course I am naively hoping for both.

*Step 1. Revised string theory*
As you can see in the photo below I have tacked a piece of string to the center point of my bottom circle. I'm using the old bottom. (the ancients had nylon string didn't they?). *Just ignore the radius markings you see. as we won't be using those. they were part of the old theory.*

As you can see, I've already place the first stave mock-up in place.

""

*Step 2. calculating the angle for the next stave*
I'm using different stave widths for this experiment, and I'm placing the next one again using the string to give me the angle needed.

To do this I had to first put the string at the angle of the first stave, then keep the string in position while moving the first stave away and placing the new stave on top of the string and otherwise lined up with circle as shown in the photo below.

""

*Step 3. Marking the angle to match the prior stave*
As shown photo 1 below, I have marked off the angle on the next stave and cut it as in photo 2. It worked.

""

""

*Step 4. Marking the angle on the other side of the 2nd stave*
Again I used the string to mark the other edge and cut then cut it as shown in photos 1and 2 below. I then continued in this way until I had enough to prove the accuracy of my method, as shown in photo 3 below.

""

""

""

*MAKING THE NEW BOTTOM*
I did this a little differently. I just wanted to show you in the photo below that after planing the bottom boards and jointing them, I taped them together on the back side, which helped to hold them in place while I marked for the dowels. My marks were a little off on the old bottom and I didn't get my dowels perfectly centered either. The new bottom turned out a lot better with the tape and I took pains to make sure my dowel holes were centered and drilled straight. But I did it all freehand (using my ancient Dewalt cordless drill which is one whole month old).

""

So that is it for today. Your comments on this method are invited (as long as you don't swear). I hope you are all enjoying your weekend. I'm back to the shop to work on my bucket tomorrow so I can catch up with Mads. Although I see that Mads is actually making a basket, not a bucket. Buckets always have handles that swing. No matter, it will be made with the authentic lag method, so I'm just having a little fun at Mads expense here. I guess I'm a little jealous of his stylish handle and the long stave's it's attached to.

Thanks for reading.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> I haven't been in the shop since Thursday and even then only for a short time. You might know that I wasn't happy with my first bucket attempt because the diameter I planned wasn't happening. I will still finish that first bucket, but I started a new one hoping to come in on target this time.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike.
I'm sure you are wrong!!! 
Ok I try again; 
I'm impressed, this is a method I can believe in, and most of all can imagine could have been used.
Less is really more!
I will round the end of my handle and make round holes in the long stafs, in this way it can swing! You can't hold me down, I'm like a wine cork in a bucket… lol.
Well done Mike, I enjoy to see your effort.
Best thoughts and a big smile,
Mads


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> I haven't been in the shop since Thursday and even then only for a short time. You might know that I wasn't happy with my first bucket attempt because the diameter I planned wasn't happening. I will still finish that first bucket, but I started a new one hoping to come in on target this time.
> 
> ...


Another interesting blog. Looing at the original bucket from a couple blogs back, most of the staves seem to be different widths. IMO, they probably made the staves, then fit a bottom to them. That would have been much easier in their crude working conditions without any complex calcutations or layout.


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> I haven't been in the shop since Thursday and even then only for a short time. You might know that I wasn't happy with my first bucket attempt because the diameter I planned wasn't happening. I will still finish that first bucket, but I started a new one hoping to come in on target this time.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike. Impressed and amused!

It's not that any previous methods were implausible- in fact you now have quite a list of plausible methods. Any or all of them or combinations of them are likely to have been used. as Mads said, less is more - so it is more likely that a method would be refined and refined until it cannot be simplified any further. This is the same process you are going through. We have the benefit of some historical documents, so we can build on the experience of others before us but what a thrill it would be if Sony had been around in 1050, not just Ikea!

From my diagram on your previous entry you can see that no matter how the angles were derived initially, eventually jigs were likely to have been used for marking out subsequent barrels/buckets for repetition and consistency.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> I haven't been in the shop since Thursday and even then only for a short time. You might know that I wasn't happy with my first bucket attempt because the diameter I planned wasn't happening. I will still finish that first bucket, but I started a new one hoping to come in on target this time.
> 
> ...


Look guys,
I made yet another suggestion:










Here you can find the PFD in high resolution.
http://lumberjocks.com/mafe/blog/21077

Best thoughts,
Mads


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> I haven't been in the shop since Thursday and even then only for a short time. You might know that I wasn't happy with my first bucket attempt because the diameter I planned wasn't happening. I will still finish that first bucket, but I started a new one hoping to come in on target this time.
> 
> ...


Wauuu Mike look at this:
Think we might do a bendwood box session also later.
http://jandersonwoodworks.com/Portfolio.aspx?Id=1238
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> I haven't been in the shop since Thursday and even then only for a short time. You might know that I wasn't happy with my first bucket attempt because the diameter I planned wasn't happening. I will still finish that first bucket, but I started a new one hoping to come in on target this time.
> 
> ...


I agree that my new string method is not practical or fast enough for a productive bucket maker. I love Mads solution which to me is much more plausible. However, I am glad we are moving away from the eyes only theory as it just seems natural for woodworkers to use helpful devices to insure accuracy.

It is true that often repeated tasks can be done using just the human senses, but put yourself in the ancient master's shoes.

He would probably have at least one apprentice. the apprentice would probably need some kind of help similar to Mad's invention to get the angles right, at least in the beginning. And once you have a great device like that, why take the risk of using your eye?

Eyesight fades and distorts and there weren't many opticians around way back when. I would also assume that many of these vessels were made by farmers who didn't do this work day in and day out and so would be more than willing to use jigs to make the work easier.

Another point is that it isn't enough to just get the correct angle. You also have to make sure that you are planing off the same amount at both ends of the stave. It's very easy to get angle right, but to plane off too much at one end. This results in a poor joint with leaks. You need to have consistent stave widths to get a good fit, and that applies not just to the straight sided vessels, but also to the tapered ones.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> I haven't been in the shop since Thursday and even then only for a short time. You might know that I wasn't happy with my first bucket attempt because the diameter I planned wasn't happening. I will still finish that first bucket, but I started a new one hoping to come in on target this time.
> 
> ...


Good idea Mads. I wouldn't mind giving it a try. There is plenty of inspiration to draw from where I live. These boxes are called 'tine' in Norway. They are thin wood which is bent and sewed together with roots or 'tagger' as they are called here. These boxes were very common in the old days, and some where very beautiful and artistic. They were used to carry a lot of different things, but I think mostly food items, like a meal to take along to work in the fields on a farm for example. In the old days they were usually painted a solid color and then decorated with painted on designs like rose painting, etc. My son made one of these in his wood shop class many years ago which we still have. There are quite a few craftsmen still making these, but they are usually left unpainted these days to show off the wood. Some are really fantastic.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> I haven't been in the shop since Thursday and even then only for a short time. You might know that I wasn't happy with my first bucket attempt because the diameter I planned wasn't happening. I will still finish that first bucket, but I started a new one hoping to come in on target this time.
> 
> ...


*Bob*. No, they made the bottom first. From that they derived the radius of the staves, the number needed etc. and also the size of the vessel.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> I haven't been in the shop since Thursday and even then only for a short time. You might know that I wasn't happy with my first bucket attempt because the diameter I planned wasn't happening. I will still finish that first bucket, but I started a new one hoping to come in on target this time.
> 
> ...


Geez, if they were that smart, i would have thought my Viking ancestors would have moved to a warmer area before teh 1880s ;-)) Guess we have too much common knowledge. Hard to do anyting without using it now.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

*-*

*Just a short blog today to tell you what I've learned and to give you a few tips.* Today I planed 6 stave's concave and also cut out the dados in them for the bottom. As I mentioned in a past blog, it is easy to cut the lines marked out for the dado.

I first scored with a knife. It's a good idea to just lightly score the lines much like the pressure you might use on a pencil, then cut deeper the 2nd time. This will keep you from wandering off the line on the first cut.

After that it's using the lag knife. It is amazingly easy to use and you can get a lot of pressure on it with the long handle. You just have to be a little careful at the sharp outside edges of the staves so you don't break them out.

The photo below shows me starting to chisel out the waste. Here again you need to be a little careful with the edges. I started the cut with the bevel up and then reversed it to bevel down about a third of the way into the cut. This makes it easier to follow the curve of the stave evenly. If you should take a chip from the edge, it will likely be near the inside edge which will be planed away when you plane the edge angles. I am doing the edge angles last for that reason.

""

Here is the first one finished.

""

And here it is with the bottom inserted.



And with a few staves set up. Please note that I have put the long handle stave's at one end of the middle board and the other will be at the other end directly opposite. this will be the strongest way to mount the handle stave's to reduce stress on the bucket bottom and structure when it's filled with liquid.

""

One last point. I originally ground my plane iron to the same radius as the stave's would be. In retrospect that was a mistake, although it worked ok, I still felt it wasn't optimal so I reground my blade to a tighter radius and that made a significant difference. Better control, Faster and better. I'm sorry I miss-led you on this point and I hope it won't create too much work for you if you choose to regrind and hone your plane iron.

I hope everyone participating in this project is having fun and learning something new, as I am. Thanks for reading.


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Just a short blog today to tell you what I've learned and to give you a few tips.* Today I planed 6 stave's concave and also cut out the dados in them for the bottom. As I mentioned in a past blog, it is easy to cut the lines marked out for the dado.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike,
looking good!
I look forward to try to use that lag knife.
Cant stop to admire your mallet!
I think also the blade will be a easier use if it's sharpened a little more like a scrub plane, I found mine swimming a little on the wood when I planed, but I took the blade out a little extra.
Thank you for sharing the day,
best thoughts,
Mads


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Just a short blog today to tell you what I've learned and to give you a few tips.* Today I planed 6 stave's concave and also cut out the dados in them for the bottom. As I mentioned in a past blog, it is easy to cut the lines marked out for the dado.
> 
> ...


Ohhh yes one question, did they not make some kind of wedge effect on the bottom to secure a tight fit?


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Just a short blog today to tell you what I've learned and to give you a few tips.* Today I planed 6 stave's concave and also cut out the dados in them for the bottom. As I mentioned in a past blog, it is easy to cut the lines marked out for the dado.
> 
> ...


Hi Mads, no wedge shape in my book on the subject. I imagine when it gets filled with water it will expand quite a lot and seal the bottom pretty tight (I hope). I think just a reasonably good fit between the dado and the bottom should do the trick.

I do think the coopering method is smarter/better where the edge of the bottom is wedge shaped and it fits a matching 'V' groove. There were quite a few coopering projects in the gold book I wouldn't mind trying out.

I really enjoyed the work today and I was very pleased with the results. Unlike yourself, I'm not thinking much about the aesthetics. I will just be happy to get it together properly and I hope without leaks as a bonus!

Even with all my big machines, I must admit that this way of working is much more satisfying and enjoyable. No big noise or dust clouds and a nice work pace. I was planning to do this project quite a few years ago. I only got the plane finished, the little one you saw in the photo, but I never got any further. I'm glad I didn't though as it is more fun doing it as a group like we are now. Now I just have to explain to my wife why I spent all that money over the years on all those machines!

I don't envy you doing those edge angles by eye, but if anybody can do it, I know you can. So good luck with it and it will be interesting hear how it went for you.

I do think it would be easier to do it by eye if you mark up the angle your eye tells you that you need, then follow those marks as you free hand plane. That would make more sense to me than just to start planing an trying to eye in the angle.

My concern here is that the stave width has to be consistent from top to bottom. In theory you could get the angle right but remove more wood at one end than the other. This would affect the tightness of the joint between the stave's.


----------



## dub560 (Jun 4, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Just a short blog today to tell you what I've learned and to give you a few tips.* Today I planed 6 stave's concave and also cut out the dados in them for the bottom. As I mentioned in a past blog, it is easy to cut the lines marked out for the dado.
> 
> ...


looking real good bro


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Just a short blog today to tell you what I've learned and to give you a few tips.* Today I planed 6 stave's concave and also cut out the dados in them for the bottom. As I mentioned in a past blog, it is easy to cut the lines marked out for the dado.
> 
> ...


Thanks dub. It is actually a lot easier to do than I thought it would be. Not that the quality is so great on this first one.


----------



## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Just a short blog today to tell you what I've learned and to give you a few tips.* Today I planed 6 stave's concave and also cut out the dados in them for the bottom. As I mentioned in a past blog, it is easy to cut the lines marked out for the dado.
> 
> ...


QC on the prototype is always hard. But I bet bet once you get your tools tweaked it will be raining buckets. And ma-bee you'll catch some of that rain.
As for the handwork. The tool-set is much smaller. 4 good planes will do the work of thousands of dollars of machines.
The setup is much faster and easier.


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Just a short blog today to tell you what I've learned and to give you a few tips.* Today I planed 6 stave's concave and also cut out the dados in them for the bottom. As I mentioned in a past blog, it is easy to cut the lines marked out for the dado.
> 
> ...


Look at this:
http://cgi.ebay.fr/outils-anciens-mesurer-cuir-Bourrelier-/180620980948?pt=FR_JG_Collections_Sciences&hash=item2a0dd972d4
Could it be the tool we were looking at?
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Just a short blog today to tell you what I've learned and to give you a few tips.* Today I planed 6 stave's concave and also cut out the dados in them for the bottom. As I mentioned in a past blog, it is easy to cut the lines marked out for the dado.
> 
> ...


*Dave* So true. I do love the machine's for what they can do so effortlessly. However, I have said many times that if I were young I wouldn't mind using just hand tools. It took me years to become a little familiar with hand planes, but now I use them a lot for small jobs and the work is very satisfying. I also love to use my spoke shaves. quiet woodworking is wonderful. The only downside is that it takes some time to become proficient with hand tools.

*Mads* That's a great tool, but I think the ones pictured must be for coopering which is a much newer technology than our method. There could well have been something used for lagging similar to your version. I have tried to believe that it was done by eye, but considering all the different widths and angles involved I still think they needed a little help. The master coopers sure did, so why not the master laggers too?

I'm hoping to finish my stave's today and maybe even drill and install the dowels if all goes well. I can't wait to get to the bindings. They're my favorite part of these old buckets, but I think it will be a bit of a challenge to make them properly.


----------



## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Just a short blog today to tell you what I've learned and to give you a few tips.* Today I planed 6 stave's concave and also cut out the dados in them for the bottom. As I mentioned in a past blog, it is easy to cut the lines marked out for the dado.
> 
> ...


Great blog´s once again Mike 
I´m just catching up since the last four days from friday to monday has been realy tuff
friday and saturday on nightshift 15hours a day and sonday morning directly with the ferry
and train to århus to my mother since my daughter shuold visit a dentist specialist monday
were we returned home late in the evening 
I used alot of the sonday evening to cut the planes loose from the frame I showed as a teaser
in my last bragging gloat  I got 2/3 of the tools with me home  crazy 46kg waighted the bag with tools

take care
Dennis


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

*-*

*Another short update.* 
I finally got my bucket stave's mounted on the bottom. I still have to round the stave's on the outside and drill the dowel holes. The joints are mostly tight between the stave's, but a couple of very small adjustments will finish the job. The black you see between the gaps in the photo below are just pencil marks. I did the edge angles by starting out with an angle that seemed about right and then I adjusted them afterwards, also by eye. All the planing was done freehand on my hand plane mounted in the bench as I showed earlier. This time I got the planned diameter.

""

*My work sequence*
I found a great work sequence that saved a little time.

1. First the concave side of each stave was planed.

2.The planed stave was left between the bench dogs after planing, the bottom dado was measured, marked and cut before planing the next stave and so on until all the stave's were finished (except the rounding on the outside).

3. I marked the same edge angle on all the stave's (except the last one).

4. The staves were taped together on the outside to hold them together while I placed them on the bottom.

5. I tightened the stave's with a cord clamp to see how accurate the angles were. About half seemed alright. The others were marked for adjustments using my eye and a ruler to draw the line with. I dismounted the stave's and replaned the ones needing adjustment. I had to do this 3 times, but it didn't take long. Now they are almost perfect except a couple that need a small adjustment.

Sorry I didn't take more pictures, but I was working like mad to get to the point where I left off. Tomorrow I plan to finish up the outside of the staves, make those two small adjustment and drill the dowel holes. Still a bit of work to go before making the handle and the bindings.

Thanks for reading.


----------



## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update.*
> I finally got my bucket stave's mounted on the bottom. I still have to round the stave's on the outside and drill the dowel holes. The joints are mostly tight between the stave's, but a couple of very small adjustments will finish the job. The black you see between the gaps in the photo below are just pencil marks. I did the edge angles by starting out with an angle that seemed about right and then I adjusted them afterwards, also by eye. All the planing was done freehand on my hand plane mounted in the bench as I showed earlier. This time I got the planned diameter.
> ...


mike this is a great work you are doing
problems and all
your humility is inspirational

however the old timers did this
you have shown one trait
that stands out

*perseverence*

my hat is off to you 
(sorry my toupee got stuck to it) lol


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update.*
> I finally got my bucket stave's mounted on the bottom. I still have to round the stave's on the outside and drill the dowel holes. The joints are mostly tight between the stave's, but a couple of very small adjustments will finish the job. The black you see between the gaps in the photo below are just pencil marks. I did the edge angles by starting out with an angle that seemed about right and then I adjusted them afterwards, also by eye. All the planing was done freehand on my hand plane mounted in the bench as I showed earlier. This time I got the planned diameter.
> ...


Looking great from here Mike!


----------



## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update.*
> I finally got my bucket stave's mounted on the bottom. I still have to round the stave's on the outside and drill the dowel holes. The joints are mostly tight between the stave's, but a couple of very small adjustments will finish the job. The black you see between the gaps in the photo below are just pencil marks. I did the edge angles by starting out with an angle that seemed about right and then I adjusted them afterwards, also by eye. All the planing was done freehand on my hand plane mounted in the bench as I showed earlier. This time I got the planned diameter.
> ...


Mike, that is coming together really well.

Thanks for sharing all of it.

You could have hid pieces, I'm glad you didn't.

I'm in the shop again tomorrow (yippee) and I'm hoping to get a start then.

jamie


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update.*
> I finally got my bucket stave's mounted on the bottom. I still have to round the stave's on the outside and drill the dowel holes. The joints are mostly tight between the stave's, but a couple of very small adjustments will finish the job. The black you see between the gaps in the photo below are just pencil marks. I did the edge angles by starting out with an angle that seemed about right and then I adjusted them afterwards, also by eye. All the planing was done freehand on my hand plane mounted in the bench as I showed earlier. This time I got the planned diameter.
> ...


Thanks for you supportive comments *David, Bob and Jamie* I do hope it comes out ok. I'm sure mine won't look nearly as nice as Mad's (Mafe), but this is not a competition and I hope all the participants do well and also put their own mark on their buckets.

I think we are all learning a few things and learning/practicing our hand skills too. I do hope you will be joining our little group *Jamie* and of course anyone else who wants to give it a try.

This skill opens the door to a lot of different projects which can be built with this method, and many of them can really be beautiful.

I'm letting all the plane shavings stay where they landed so I can take a photo of them when I'm finished with the hand planing tomorrow. I might be using a spokeshave to do the outside of the stave's, but I'm not sure yet.


----------



## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update.*
> I finally got my bucket stave's mounted on the bottom. I still have to round the stave's on the outside and drill the dowel holes. The joints are mostly tight between the stave's, but a couple of very small adjustments will finish the job. The black you see between the gaps in the photo below are just pencil marks. I did the edge angles by starting out with an angle that seemed about right and then I adjusted them afterwards, also by eye. All the planing was done freehand on my hand plane mounted in the bench as I showed earlier. This time I got the planned diameter.
> ...


looking goooood sofare Mike 

take care
Dennis


----------



## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update.*
> I finally got my bucket stave's mounted on the bottom. I still have to round the stave's on the outside and drill the dowel holes. The joints are mostly tight between the stave's, but a couple of very small adjustments will finish the job. The black you see between the gaps in the photo below are just pencil marks. I did the edge angles by starting out with an angle that seemed about right and then I adjusted them afterwards, also by eye. All the planing was done freehand on my hand plane mounted in the bench as I showed earlier. This time I got the planned diameter.
> ...


Impressive, Mike. Thank you.


----------



## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update.*
> I finally got my bucket stave's mounted on the bottom. I still have to round the stave's on the outside and drill the dowel holes. The joints are mostly tight between the stave's, but a couple of very small adjustments will finish the job. The black you see between the gaps in the photo below are just pencil marks. I did the edge angles by starting out with an angle that seemed about right and then I adjusted them afterwards, also by eye. All the planing was done freehand on my hand plane mounted in the bench as I showed earlier. This time I got the planned diameter.
> ...


Looks really good Mike. I'm glad you are blazing the trail for slowpokes like me.

One of the things which I may have missed or don't understand is how the lagging knife is used exactly. I am still planning on skipping that step as I have not seen why I need it yet. A few photos of that if you have any would be appreciated.


----------



## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update.*
> I finally got my bucket stave's mounted on the bottom. I still have to round the stave's on the outside and drill the dowel holes. The joints are mostly tight between the stave's, but a couple of very small adjustments will finish the job. The black you see between the gaps in the photo below are just pencil marks. I did the edge angles by starting out with an angle that seemed about right and then I adjusted them afterwards, also by eye. All the planing was done freehand on my hand plane mounted in the bench as I showed earlier. This time I got the planned diameter.
> ...


OK I have been out in the back yard digging a hole for my new sistern. [thats what my pawpaw called it] I am in need of a good bucket. Would you know of a good place to find one.

Great progress Mike


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update.*
> I finally got my bucket stave's mounted on the bottom. I still have to round the stave's on the outside and drill the dowel holes. The joints are mostly tight between the stave's, but a couple of very small adjustments will finish the job. The black you see between the gaps in the photo below are just pencil marks. I did the edge angles by starting out with an angle that seemed about right and then I adjusted them afterwards, also by eye. All the planing was done freehand on my hand plane mounted in the bench as I showed earlier. This time I got the planned diameter.
> ...


Thanks for those comments guys. A little clap on the back never hurts.

*Steve* The picture below somewhat illustrates how the lag knife is used. The handle should actually be a little longer. Mine is 50cm. The lag or dado as we call it is made the following way.

""

1. Mark the lines with a try square. The bottom line should be at least 1.5cm from the bottom. The width of the lag should of course be the thickness of the bottom. This means that the bottom should be finish planed and of a consistent thickness before you do the dado.

2. Score the dado lines with a sharp knife. First lightly to prevent going outside the lines, then a deep score. I found it is best to slightly angle the edge of the blade away from the center of the dado to insure that the edges of the dado score won't be wide at the top and narrower on the bottom. you should do the same when you cut with the lag knife. It is irritating to get a dado that fits the bottom at the dado's upper edge, but is to narrow at the bottom of the dado to push the bucket bottom all the way into it.

3.Hold the lag knife as shown in the illustration and holding the the long handle with one hand near the top and more or less braced against your shoulder. This will maximize the leverage while cutting.

4. Cut both the scored lines straight across as you did when scoring. I found that the tip of the knife does most of the work, so make sure it's well sharpened.

5. Cut across a couple of times to deepen the cut, then take a sharp chisel of the appropriate width and start removing the waste. I start the cut with the bevel up. It's best to start the cut a little higher than your cut lines might indicate to avoid breaking off the lower corner under the dado.

6. After getting the cut started, I reverse the chisel to bevel down position and continue cutting right through to the other end. I found the the chisel follows the convex shape of the stave best in the bevel down position. I used my carving mallet to do the chiseling.

7 I found that I had to repeat this routine 3 times to get down to 5mm depth. You don't have to score with a knife after the first time.

*Approximate Time used so far*
1. Plane bottom to final thickness and drill dowel holes….......60 min.
2. Plane stave's convex 4 min. ea. x 12…..............................48 
3. Cut dado 3 min. ea. x 12…...............................................36
4. Mark and cut stave edge angles 4 min. ea.x 12…...............48
5. Assembling and reassembling bucket to get angles…..........60

Total time so far, a little less than 4-1/2 hours work plus some some wasted time.

I thought you might be interested to get an idea of how efficient this work is. I'm sure my work pace is really slow compared to an experienced maker of these vessels. It would be interesting to know how many buckets a day were the standard for the ancient professionals.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update.*
> I finally got my bucket stave's mounted on the bottom. I still have to round the stave's on the outside and drill the dowel holes. The joints are mostly tight between the stave's, but a couple of very small adjustments will finish the job. The black you see between the gaps in the photo below are just pencil marks. I did the edge angles by starting out with an angle that seemed about right and then I adjusted them afterwards, also by eye. All the planing was done freehand on my hand plane mounted in the bench as I showed earlier. This time I got the planned diameter.
> ...


I'm sure they made them a lot faster than we would dream possible. A Continential soldier ws not excused form drill untill he could load and fire his musket 15 times in 3 min 45 sec. That is a shot every 15 seconds!! It would not surprise me if they turned out a bucket every hour.


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update.*
> I finally got my bucket stave's mounted on the bottom. I still have to round the stave's on the outside and drill the dowel holes. The joints are mostly tight between the stave's, but a couple of very small adjustments will finish the job. The black you see between the gaps in the photo below are just pencil marks. I did the edge angles by starting out with an angle that seemed about right and then I adjusted them afterwards, also by eye. All the planing was done freehand on my hand plane mounted in the bench as I showed earlier. This time I got the planned diameter.
> ...


Hi Mike,
First of all no this is no competition, and I'm sure my bucket and yours will be perfectly fine how ever they turn out. I guess I also have to learn to shut my mouth, I just get so exited and curious…
I truely am so happy for the efford you have made, it is more than wonderful, thank you.
So:
I don't understand in the first text you say you need to make the dowel holes? What dowelholes? Are all the safs connected with dowels?
I do hope also the ancien bucket makes was able to be faster than me… I think this bucket would be the most expensive bucket on the planet if it was to be paied by the hour… But this will with no doubt be my favorite bucket for as long as it exist. 
So a big hug to you, and thank you!
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update.*
> I finally got my bucket stave's mounted on the bottom. I still have to round the stave's on the outside and drill the dowel holes. The joints are mostly tight between the stave's, but a couple of very small adjustments will finish the job. The black you see between the gaps in the photo below are just pencil marks. I did the edge angles by starting out with an angle that seemed about right and then I adjusted them afterwards, also by eye. All the planing was done freehand on my hand plane mounted in the bench as I showed earlier. This time I got the planned diameter.
> ...


*Mads*. My comment about this not being a competition was definitely not directed at anything you have said, so please do not feel bad at all. I was just pointing out to readers that this was cooperation, not competition as I don't want anyone to misunderstand my motives for wanting to do this project with a group. Some of us are bound to make better and/or better looking buckets than others, but that doesn't matter to me because I am having fun doing the work and enjoying seeing how others do it. I will be even more happy to see others including yourself to finish the project.

*Bob* I can assure you that nobody except maybe Superman on a good day could build one of these buckets in one hours.


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

*-*

*Another short update to show the outside rounding.* I managed to get half of the stave's rounded on the outside today. Some pics below to show you the result.

The first picture below shows the 'Lag' or dados cut.

""

Here are some rounded in the photo below. I used the concave shaped template to first mark the curve on both ends and the to check my progress as I planed them. I used a spokeshave for this work as I felt it gave me better control. A regular hand plane would work well here also. The rounding work wasn't difficult. It took about the same time as for the concave planing.

""

You see below the bottom with half of the stave's assembled. Note that I numbered the stave's in their mounting order. I did this because I still have some very small edge angle adjustments to do and I want to make sure the stave's go back in the same order to insure my joints are correct. And a pic from the top.

""

""

You can see that the joints between the stave's are pretty good now with this view of the outside shown below and the 2nd photo of the inside.

""

""

The stave's aren't all the same length around the top. This will be correct before final assembly. I was able to save the shavings from all the planing work so far as shown below. I swept into a pile and it wasn't as much as I thought it would be.

""

I still have 7 stave's to round on the outside and the dowel holes to drill before doing the binding work. I might not get a chance to work in the shop tomorrow, so I hope I can do this on Friday.

The work so far isn't 'masterly', but it has been fun and I think the result will be nice if not wonderful. Thanks for reading.


----------



## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update to show the outside rounding.* I managed to get half of the stave's rounded on the outside today. Some pics below to show you the result.
> 
> ...


Mike I have witnessed some barrel making at a few distilleries. I have never noticed doweling the staves. You and Mads are both doing it. Was it common practice for this stile bucket?


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update to show the outside rounding.* I managed to get half of the stave's rounded on the outside today. Some pics below to show you the result.
> 
> ...


Yes *Dave* What you saw was 'coopering' which is a much more advanced , and in some ways more difficult method, much better too. Our bucket is being made with a much more ancient method which was the forerunner to coopering, with examples having been found that date all the way back to 400 BC (in Greece).

Buckets similar to what we are making can also be a combination of the two methods. The coopering method uses a Croze groove which is a 'v' groove which is planed around the inside after the bucket is assembled. The bottom has a matching 'v' profile around its edge. It provides a much simpler and more effect moisture seal than our method.


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update to show the outside rounding.* I managed to get half of the stave's rounded on the outside today. Some pics below to show you the result.
> 
> ...


I still do not get it!
Does the stafs get to be dowel'ed' together also?
I did just the bottom.
If they are, is it perhaps faster and more easy to ´plane the outside after, then they will stay.
Did they used something between the stafs as tightening? Like bark, moss or other?
Hmmm. as always a asking student here, feel a little imbaresd by now… Hop you bare with me.
I'm really impressed of the speed you are at now Mike, you are riding a wave now I'm in Paris… So I will have plenty to catch up with next week.
It's looking so good there, I'm really deeply impressed.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update to show the outside rounding.* I managed to get half of the stave's rounded on the outside today. Some pics below to show you the result.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mads, Yes we use dowels between the stave's with this method. I 'think' the dowels have two functions, first to keep the stave's from changing shape too much when the bucket is getting wet and then dry all the time and strengthening the structure overall (think ribs aka frames in a wooden boat)., and secondly I think it helped the old timers to assemble the bucket as they didn't have masking tape in those days (or so my wife informs me), lol.


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update to show the outside rounding.* I managed to get half of the stave's rounded on the outside today. Some pics below to show you the result.
> 
> ...


Yes we need those woman, no doubt, the can keep us to the ground…
Ahh, I'm happy, it will make things esier I think with these dowels, I started to get some gay hairs on thinking how to hold it tohether on it's way.
Thank you,
Mads


----------



## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update to show the outside rounding.* I managed to get half of the stave's rounded on the outside today. Some pics below to show you the result.
> 
> ...


nothing wrong with asking Mads you know that , to bee silent is wrong when something bothers 

nice pile of shavings Mike, something i cuold avoid with the pine we can buy here on the island …LOL

take care
Dennis


----------



## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update to show the outside rounding.* I managed to get half of the stave's rounded on the outside today. Some pics below to show you the result.
> 
> ...


I guess I had thought that you dowelled the staves, assembled them and then planed the outside to shape.
Is it easier to shape the outside while not on the bucket?
Is there a final shaping once the bucket is together and this step is to mainly remove the bulk of the material?


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update to show the outside rounding.* I managed to get half of the stave's rounded on the outside today. Some pics below to show you the result.
> 
> ...


*Dennis* Sounds good, maybe you could star bucket store called 'Lazywood buckets', lol.

*Mads* Did you see the part in the blog that suggest drilling the holes after all the planing is done? But you have my permission to do it however you want. I wouldn't dare, partly because my stave's are only 1cm thick after planing.

*Steve* I think it would be easier to plane the outside after assembly except that the dowels aren't enough to hold the bucket together for that work, and a band around the outside gets in the way. So not impossible, but maybe better the way I did it with the stave's clamped between bench dogs. You can also clamp them in other ways, such as in a long clamp standing on it's edge, or a fixed piece of wood clamped to the work surface on both ends and a wedge between the wood piece and the work piece on one end to apply horizontal clamping pressure.


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update to show the outside rounding.* I managed to get half of the stave's rounded on the outside today. Some pics below to show you the result.
> 
> ...


I have no idea what I will do!
Next week will show, now I just enjoy to follow… Even as you have noticed it's not a possition where I am in my comfort zone, I like to have 'hands on'. But it's good for me, to listen, and wait, so thank you.
I can see thedanger in making dowels early, but also the advantage.
Do we know if they used any kind of glue, I think animal glues are quite old? And did they used somthing to make it tight, or just the growing of the wood when wet? 
Goodnight Mike, and thank you,
kiss your wife and tell her you are a good and patient teacher, this comes directly from the students,
Mads


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update to show the outside rounding.* I managed to get half of the stave's rounded on the outside today. Some pics below to show you the result.
> 
> ...


Hi Mads. I hope you are enjoying your stay in Paris. Please give your Caroline my best regards.

I'm sorry about the confusion. It is easy for me to forget that everyone does not have a complete overview of the whole project. It was just too much info to write at one time, so I have chosen to give the instructions as they are needed to complete the next step. This also gives me a chance to photograph what I have done and just hope everyone else can do it better!

No sealants or glue were used on these vessels. The wood swells from the moisture and makes it water-tight. I must confess that I don't really expect mine to be very tight, as I'm not sure how close tolerances are allowed where the bottom fits into the dado or for the joints between the stave's. I plan to test it with water when finished, but after that it will be sitting somewhere dry.

I might not get into the shop before the weekend. I have some shopping and errands today and then I found out I have a dental appointment tomorrow. So maybe Saturday unless I'm lucky. Don't worry too much about getting behind. There's no rush, and we will all enjoy seeing your progress and also your approach to the work. I'm sure the ancients all worked in their own way too, but got equally good results. As the teacher, I give everyone the authority to use their own brains. I am just showing a way which I know will work, but there are surely many ways to do it and with different tools too.


----------



## sharad (Dec 26, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update to show the outside rounding.* I managed to get half of the stave's rounded on the outside today. Some pics below to show you the result.
> 
> ...


Mike I am highly impressed by this blog which I started reading a little too late. This reminded me of ice cream pots which we used when young for making all sorts of icecream. The outside vessel of this pot was made out of wooden strips just as you have shown in your blog for the bucket. Eagerly waiting to see the finished bucket.

Sharad


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short update to show the outside rounding.* I managed to get half of the stave's rounded on the outside today. Some pics below to show you the result.
> 
> ...


Hello Sharad good to hear from you, and thank you for interesting comments. Yes, this technique is much wider spread than many realize with some finds of similar work from Greece dated to 400 BC. I wouldn't be surprised if the original method comes from India or Egypt. Of course it is also very possible that the method has been 'reinvented' several times over as often happens when people facing similar problems come up with similar solutions. On the other hand it is probable that seafaring nations widely spread this technology. I know for example that the Romans made something similar, but the used nails to put the main components together. I hope you are well.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

*-*

*Another short progress report today.* I finished rounding the stave's on the outside using my spokeshave. This was nice to use because I could sit down while doing the work. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I used my plane. A good enough reason for some folks to buy a spokeshave.

Here is my spokeshave set-up. I have two spokeshaves, one with a flat sole as seen here and another with a rounded sole for inside curves, like for cabriolet legs and such. I have had these shaves about 30 years. I know they look brand new, but I haven't really used them much. But when I do they are wonderful to work with. A few years ago I read an article in FWW mag., I think by Garret Hack showing how to tune them up for optimal performance. I did this and they perform beautifully now.

""

The following photos show my bucket temporarily put together. I still have to perfect a few edge angles, shape the handle Stave's and drill holes in them and make a handle before doing the bindings. So I will take my time to do those edge tune-ups tomorrow or maybe Wednesday if I can't get into the shop tomorrow.

""

""

""

*TAKING TIME TO SMELL THE ROSES*

During this project I have heard few comments to our group's blogs about needing a lot of patience to do this work. I just wanted to say that often we woodworkers get very excited about what what we are making and we can't wait to get it finished, so we push our wood through our machines making a lot of noise and dust and sometimes wearing ourselves out to get our project finished.

I feel that sometimes we are so focused on getting the work done that we forget to enjoy the work process. Doing a project mainly with hand tools occasionally is a very nice way to do that. it's relaxing, quiet and dust free work and the slower work pace gives you a chance to think about improvements you might make to your project before the next step.

I would be the last person to give up my beloved machine tools, but this project has been very enjoyable so far, partly for the reasons given above and also sharing the experience with the others who are participating in this project and I don't regret the slower pace. We amateurs are after all doing this type of work because we like it and we set our own deadlines (or sometimes the wives do).

Thanks for reading!


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## Timbo (Aug 21, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short progress report today.* I finished rounding the stave's on the outside using my spokeshave. This was nice to use because I could sit down while doing the work. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I used my plane. A good enough reason for some folks to buy a spokeshave.
> 
> ...


I'm with you on the slower pace, quiet, dust free, I do enjoy working with hand tools more. Following you on this project has been enjoyable too.


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## Clung (Oct 14, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short progress report today.* I finished rounding the stave's on the outside using my spokeshave. This was nice to use because I could sit down while doing the work. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I used my plane. A good enough reason for some folks to buy a spokeshave.
> 
> ...


Very nicely done. I'm with you on the hand tools - I also used a spokeshave to round the outside, and find the pace very relaxing - even meditative. It's been a great project!


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short progress report today.* I finished rounding the stave's on the outside using my spokeshave. This was nice to use because I could sit down while doing the work. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I used my plane. A good enough reason for some folks to buy a spokeshave.
> 
> ...


Thanks *Tim* and *Clarence*. I guess the work ethic and being productive is drummed into us from childhood, so it's easy to forget to take a little extra time to enjoy ourselves sometimes. I just wanted to remind others not to forget to give themselves a break once in a while.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short progress report today.* I finished rounding the stave's on the outside using my spokeshave. This was nice to use because I could sit down while doing the work. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I used my plane. A good enough reason for some folks to buy a spokeshave.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike,
And it has been a pleasure to be a part of this!
Happy valentines day to rhe wifes.
Yes it''s a pleasure to work slow and enjoy on this project, even I have cheated once in a while to be kind to my arms.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short progress report today.* I finished rounding the stave's on the outside using my spokeshave. This was nice to use because I could sit down while doing the work. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I used my plane. A good enough reason for some folks to buy a spokeshave.
> 
> ...


Hi Mads, I have cheated too. I used my bandsaw to cut the bottom round, my cordless drill for the dowel holes and I cut all the stave lengtha with my miter saw. I didn't feel a need to be authentic with the saw and drilling work. Everything else has been done with hand tools.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short progress report today.* I finished rounding the stave's on the outside using my spokeshave. This was nice to use because I could sit down while doing the work. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I used my plane. A good enough reason for some folks to buy a spokeshave.
> 
> ...


We are a real couple of gangsters! lol.
I try to do things by hand to see if I can, and then I cheat after. Also I take care of my health so I have to make the repetitive things by machine.
Todays progress:
http://lumberjocks.com/mafe/blog/21314
Best thoughts,
mads


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## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short progress report today.* I finished rounding the stave's on the outside using my spokeshave. This was nice to use because I could sit down while doing the work. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I used my plane. A good enough reason for some folks to buy a spokeshave.
> 
> ...


Mike I agree with the rush rush. I have been very guilty of it. With my house [circa 1880], maintenance on cars, three teenage daughters, and a whole farms worth of animals to tend to. I have been rushing on my projects. I have been working on one of the last old planes that I have just bought. I took it back apart and have decided to do it the right way. This is my hobby and the only person I have to please is me. If we don't do our tool maintenance what will we have to work with. We live in such a through away society. Lets build that bucket that will last for 50 years. Good progress.
We are not cheaters were just hybrid woodworkers.
That goes for you to Mafe and all others that are enjoying the lesson in bucket making.


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short progress report today.* I finished rounding the stave's on the outside using my spokeshave. This was nice to use because I could sit down while doing the work. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I used my plane. A good enough reason for some folks to buy a spokeshave.
> 
> ...


I am also a hybrid woodworker but with too many machines around, I think we often forget that a handtool is also a valid choice for the job. The machine is not always faster. Some things are way too complicated to set up on the power tool, when a handtool will do the job in just a few minutes.

So, I might add this to your thoughts - sometimes the fastest way to complete a project IS with hand tools. Since we are losing this knowledge, we also lose the understanding of how useful handtools are and we go to incredible lengths to set up the same operation with a machine.

I once watched a you-tube video with a young chap in it who needed to cut a 3" piece of 1×2. I laughed when he secured the piece in a vise and then proceeded to cut off the 3 inches with a reciprocating saw. 3 strokes with a handsaw would have done it.

This project is about the process and the lessons learned along the way (mistakes?) and the old ways remembered, rehashed, rediscussed and (perhaps) refined. The "hard way" confines the lessons to memory and helps us to remember or rediscover why things were done the way they were. The bucket is actually quite secondary.

Yes, there is an object at the end, but I think if you rush to only have the object, you have missed the lesson!


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## ShopTinker (Oct 27, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short progress report today.* I finished rounding the stave's on the outside using my spokeshave. This was nice to use because I could sit down while doing the work. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I used my plane. A good enough reason for some folks to buy a spokeshave.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing with us. This has been a great project.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short progress report today.* I finished rounding the stave's on the outside using my spokeshave. This was nice to use because I could sit down while doing the work. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I used my plane. A good enough reason for some folks to buy a spokeshave.
> 
> ...


When did you put dowel in Mike? Guess I missed that one, eh?


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short progress report today.* I finished rounding the stave's on the outside using my spokeshave. This was nice to use because I could sit down while doing the work. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I used my plane. A good enough reason for some folks to buy a spokeshave.
> 
> ...


Great comments everyone! I agree with everything said here. And you are so right Steve that often hand tools are the quickest way. For example, now that I've gotten better with hand planes over the last few years, I very often use one when I don't have a whole pile of wood to plane. The key to being able to do this with any hand tool is having reached a skill level where you are comfortable doing it. Self confidence comes with practice, so these hand tool projects once in a while are very useful to hone one's skills.

*Bob* Dowels were drilled on the first step of the bucket to connect the bottom boards. I haven't done the dowels between the stave's yet. I want to perfect the angles first for the tightest fit I can get. I will probably get them leak free and then the bottom will leak like a sieve! At least that's what I'm expecting, lol. I don't expect that dowel drilling to be easy or even go particularly good. It is nitty picky work, so stay tuned for an exciting and challenging blog chapter!

I am particularly happy to hear that you guys participating in this project are enjoying it. I wish I could have given a better overview of the project before we started, but I just wasn't prepared to write a whole book. So I know it's a little like working in the dark. All the more reason to thank you joining me on this project and trusting me to give you good enough info to either do it my way (the book's way actually) or to find a way to do it that you like better.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short progress report today.* I finished rounding the stave's on the outside using my spokeshave. This was nice to use because I could sit down while doing the work. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I used my plane. A good enough reason for some folks to buy a spokeshave.
> 
> ...


Dear Mike,
You do have my 100% trust.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short progress report today.* I finished rounding the stave's on the outside using my spokeshave. This was nice to use because I could sit down while doing the work. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I used my plane. A good enough reason for some folks to buy a spokeshave.
> 
> ...


I know I´m little late here Mike  as usual at the moment but I do enjoy the slow speed 
since I have a chance to catch up with the reading ,enjoying to follow every step on the blogs 
at the sideline for the moment , the last few weeks have been a little hectic for me with work,
using Citric acid as rustremover 75 items sofare all from sawblades to small screws on planes 
and two times in Århus with my doughter at a specielist dentist ,just arived tonight from the last trip
and they say vacation is relaxing time …..LOL
and in the waiting time between the visit to the acid I started a tiny recycleproject using my
japanese saw even though I can´t be fammeliar with the short length the blade has when taking strokes
I do enjoy every second doing it without the loud noice from either the skillsaw or the jiigsaw.

another well written blog from you Mike 

take care
Dennis


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short progress report today.* I finished rounding the stave's on the outside using my spokeshave. This was nice to use because I could sit down while doing the work. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I used my plane. A good enough reason for some folks to buy a spokeshave.
> 
> ...


Good going *Dennis*. You are getting into the spirit of the project if not the actual building. I have used citric acid to clean silver (maybe not so smart?), but never to remove rust. I'll have to try it if I can find anything rusty to use it on.

I often wished I lived in a larger community where it was possible to buy used tools. They just don't exist anywhere near to where I live. No newspaper adds for them. No Ebay or Craigslist local items. Nothing. Any used tools I want to buy have to be imported and then I have to pay 25% added value tax plus import handling fees, plus high freight/ postage costs. I love Norway, but it is definitely not a tool man's paradise. Sad hearing a grown man cry, isn't it?


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short progress report today.* I finished rounding the stave's on the outside using my spokeshave. This was nice to use because I could sit down while doing the work. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I used my plane. A good enough reason for some folks to buy a spokeshave.
> 
> ...


Mike I have found out that for newer rust the Citric is fantasstic to it 
but when it comes to very old and thick rust you have to help the acid but it will do the job
when you see black gum in the small holes and like a little ruogh landscape in small places on
the iron it is rust but something has done it very hard and is very difficult for the acid to penetrate it
Citric acid is one of the mildes form of acid there is maybee thats why .
but you can read all about it in the blog I made about using Citric acid as rust remover
http://lumberjocks.com/Dennisgrosen/blog/21230

http://lumberjocks.com/Dennisgrosen/blog/21248

I have just cleaned one plane that had some heavy flash rust it did take be about ½hour 
and I was finished with it , still need to sharpen and take care of the wooden body

and yes its deffently hartbreaking to hear a man cry the same do I every time my small packages
is cought in the costum when I get something from USA speciel first time when I had ordred
two DVD from Lie-Neilsen about making sideescapements planes and using them Larry Williams
and his partner have made before I knew it they wanted me to pay severel hundres Kr. more for them :-(

hey great you make me think on them I have to ordre the last two they have made about it

have a great day both you and your wife

take care
Dennis


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short progress report today.* I finished rounding the stave's on the outside using my spokeshave. This was nice to use because I could sit down while doing the work. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I used my plane. A good enough reason for some folks to buy a spokeshave.
> 
> ...


Mike, I don't knof if the rules are the same for Norway… I order from England, then there are no tax extra (but this is EU rules).
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short progress report today.* I finished rounding the stave's on the outside using my spokeshave. This was nice to use because I could sit down while doing the work. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I used my plane. A good enough reason for some folks to buy a spokeshave.
> 
> ...


Norway isn't in the EU. Mike, Do you have to pay duty on gifts from abroad ?


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *Another short progress report today.* I finished rounding the stave's on the outside using my spokeshave. This was nice to use because I could sit down while doing the work. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I used my plane. A good enough reason for some folks to buy a spokeshave.
> 
> ...


Norway has a special agreement with the EU. To sum it up, we have all the disadvantages of an EU membership and non of the advantages, and I'm not kidding. I could go on and on about this, but from a woodworking standpoint the situation greatly affects my access to tools at somewhat reasonable prices. Unfortunately Norway no longer makes woodworking tools so they all have to be imported.

*Bob* No there isn't duty on gifts from abroad, but I think there is an upper limit to the value allowed.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

*-*

Just a short *EMERGENCY BLOG* concerning the dowels in the buckets. I haven't noticed it before, but I found a picture of the dowels used in the traditional buckets.

The dowel was shaped like a woman, that is a slim waist in the middle and pointed on both ends. The reason for this is that when the bucket swells from water a great deal of pressure will be applied to the dowels and they can break in the middle.

There's no explanation in the book, but I think the most vulnerable point is the middle because that area of the dowel is in the joints and any unevenness of the stave's at that point can produce enough leverage to break the dowel when expanded by moisture.

The idea here is to make the center about 2/3 of the diameter of the dowel with a smooth transition like a woman's hips. *(Sorry girls, I couldn't find a better form to describe this)*. The ends are with a taper of about 1/8" or 3mm.

I apologize for coming so late with this information, but this info was somewhat obscure in my book. I have most of my dowels done and now I have to pull them out and carve them into the required shape.The Author said that if you won't be filling the bucket with liquid, then you won't need to do this step.

I have to go shopping with the wife now, but I will get a picture of the shaped dowels later today. I hope this doesn't cause you a lot of aggravation.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Just a short *EMERGENCY BLOG* concerning the dowels in the buckets. I haven't noticed it before, but I found a picture of the dowels used in the traditional buckets.
> 
> ...


Mike….
Don't be sorry, it's fine, and it makes sence, it will also be easier to align.
I'm not sure I will redo mine since I will not use it as a water bucet, but I do understand the reason, and find it clever also for the fit of it, in this way you will get some slip also.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Just a short *EMERGENCY BLOG* concerning the dowels in the buckets. I haven't noticed it before, but I found a picture of the dowels used in the traditional buckets.
> 
> ...


Glad it's not a problem for you Mads. I was most worried about you because you seem to be the farthest ahead. Here is a picture of the dowel and it's shape. The point must be on both ends.

""

Also a photo of me making the dowels. I have a much faster way to do this with angled holes and the dowel stock mounted in my drill, but I did it this way for fun.

""

Now I just need to find a way to cheat on shaping my dowels. My Dremel maybe? I have to do this because I really want to see if my bucket will hold water, even though I'm pretty sure it will leak a lot. If nothing else it will make a great and humorous photo.


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Just a short *EMERGENCY BLOG* concerning the dowels in the buckets. I haven't noticed it before, but I found a picture of the dowels used in the traditional buckets.
> 
> ...


Looking fun to me.
I will love to get one of those dowel plates like LN make, but they are too expensive to be fun.
So I guess I also have to make one of these at a point…
I used much larger dowels, and this was not too easy.
I'm getting a little impatient here! lol.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

*-*

Just a little update to let my fellow participants know that I'm still alive. I do apologize for the delay. I had some dental problems and among other things I finally had to get a tooth yanked out, so I haven't been doing much lately. I got into the shop today for the first time in quite awhile. I finished perfecting the edge angles on the stave's that weren't quite right and I got all the dowels finished up and installed. I managed to drill one stave wrong and so I have to make a new one, but no big deal.

After making the dowels, I put them in a Jacobs chuck (drill chuck) mounted in the lathe to thin them out in the middle as I showed you in the last blog. The purpose is to allow some swelling room in the center of the dowels between the stave's so the dowels won't break when the bucket is filled with water. the chuck is a hand tightened one, so it went pretty fast, taking about 10 minutes for 50 dowels. I have some mini lathe tools, and I used the round nosed scraper from this set to make the cove in the middle of each dowel. They are only slightly longer than 3/4", so it was a 'tiny turning' project. Here is a photo which shows the finished dowels. Didn't really need the pic, but I hate blogs without photo's!










I clamped the bucket together with the dowels and the bottom installed and everything looks good now. I just have to replace the one ruined stave, cut the stave's to the same length (except the two long ones) and then I plan to do the bindings and the handle. I'm hoping to be finished by this coming Wednesday, and I will be blogging the work. I do expect some problems with the binding work, so It may take a little longer than I expect.

I hope all the other participants are at about the same point now, so we can have a fun finish to the project with everyone blogging their results or at least letting us know how they are getting along.


----------



## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Just a little update to let my fellow participants know that I'm still alive. I do apologize for the delay. I had some dental problems and among other things I finally had to get a tooth yanked out, so I haven't been doing much lately. I got into the shop today for the first time in quite awhile. I finished perfecting the edge angles on the stave's that weren't quite right and I got all the dowels finished up and installed. I managed to drill one stave wrong and so I have to make a new one, but no big deal.
> 
> ...


Mike - good to hear from you again. Sorry to hear about the tooth problems. I've been there, I know how uncomfortable that can make things. Glad you are back in action.

I will be catching up with the staves shortly. I have some outdoor work to do before the cold starts setting in, insulation and painting, so I haven't been in the shop either since I finished the tools ( well apart from finishing a few projects which were getting in the way in the shop and some carpentry and interior finishing work which is just part of the renovations).

Do you think the dowels in the staves ( and the floor of the bucket) are there to actually tighten the staves when the bucket is holding water or was it used just as a way of aligning the staves?


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Just a little update to let my fellow participants know that I'm still alive. I do apologize for the delay. I had some dental problems and among other things I finally had to get a tooth yanked out, so I haven't been doing much lately. I got into the shop today for the first time in quite awhile. I finished perfecting the edge angles on the stave's that weren't quite right and I got all the dowels finished up and installed. I managed to drill one stave wrong and so I have to make a new one, but no big deal.
> 
> ...


Hi Steve. I think the dowels were used as an aid to assembling the bucket and aligning the stave's as you said. (I aligned using the inside edge of the stave's as a reference). The dowels might also add some overall strength. Liquid is pretty heavy and I suspect it puts a lot of strain on the buckets structure, especially with the swelling that takes place (just a guess).


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Just a little update to let my fellow participants know that I'm still alive. I do apologize for the delay. I had some dental problems and among other things I finally had to get a tooth yanked out, so I haven't been doing much lately. I got into the shop today for the first time in quite awhile. I finished perfecting the edge angles on the stave's that weren't quite right and I got all the dowels finished up and installed. I managed to drill one stave wrong and so I have to make a new one, but no big deal.
> 
> ...


I have been wondering what happened. Good to hear it was a minor issue. I am getting a little gun shy and nervous after taking 3 of the guys off my shooting match mailing list this last month ;-((

I need to get caught up; hopeful tomorrow. Making firewood today. Have had neurologist try a couple of new ideas for migraine prevention. He onlny made it worse, I seem to be nearly back to normal today ;-))


----------



## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Just a little update to let my fellow participants know that I'm still alive. I do apologize for the delay. I had some dental problems and among other things I finally had to get a tooth yanked out, so I haven't been doing much lately. I got into the shop today for the first time in quite awhile. I finished perfecting the edge angles on the stave's that weren't quite right and I got all the dowels finished up and installed. I managed to drill one stave wrong and so I have to make a new one, but no big deal.
> 
> ...


good to see you are back in the shop Mike 
Rand discovered that I did tightened several projects type nicely together in my last blog
about the Viking´s if they visit the Roskilde Vikinge Museum site 
take care
Dennis


----------



## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Just a little update to let my fellow participants know that I'm still alive. I do apologize for the delay. I had some dental problems and among other things I finally had to get a tooth yanked out, so I haven't been doing much lately. I got into the shop today for the first time in quite awhile. I finished perfecting the edge angles on the stave's that weren't quite right and I got all the dowels finished up and installed. I managed to drill one stave wrong and so I have to make a new one, but no big deal.
> 
> ...


Hello Mike, Glad to see you back in the shop. And progress on the bucket. 
My Dad had a ole cure for a sore tooth. A fifth of bourbon. He would start drinking and either the tooth would stop hurting or he would pass out. 
Worked for him
waiting on the outcome of your project.


----------



## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Just a little update to let my fellow participants know that I'm still alive. I do apologize for the delay. I had some dental problems and among other things I finally had to get a tooth yanked out, so I haven't been doing much lately. I got into the shop today for the first time in quite awhile. I finished perfecting the edge angles on the stave's that weren't quite right and I got all the dowels finished up and installed. I managed to drill one stave wrong and so I have to make a new one, but no big deal.
> 
> ...


Mike, sorry to hear about the dental problems. I hope you are back up to snuff.

Dennis turned us on to some videos of a museum building a Viking long boat with only the old tools and methods.`Teh were splitting the tree for the planks and using these beautiful old wooden planes. They showed us how they made the pitch for the sealing and lo and behold….There was your wooden bucket full of pitch. Great stuff. All the old axes, planes, draw knives, clamps and your bucket.
I haven't been able to build along with you on the bucket, but I have been following you and Mafe on yours. Thank you for all the tutorials and the idea of doing this.


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Just a little update to let my fellow participants know that I'm still alive. I do apologize for the delay. I had some dental problems and among other things I finally had to get a tooth yanked out, so I haven't been doing much lately. I got into the shop today for the first time in quite awhile. I finished perfecting the edge angles on the stave's that weren't quite right and I got all the dowels finished up and installed. I managed to drill one stave wrong and so I have to make a new one, but no big deal.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike,
I'm still so impatient… Laugh.
No I have spend my time on giving my body some strenghts, and then working on this gift for you, and a few other small things here.
I look so much forward to make this binding, but think also I have to make some adjusting on the staves after the drilling if I want it to hold water after.
It was wonderful to see the video, and I was so surprised to see he had one of these long planes that they used in France also, but perhaps the French learned from Skandinavia, they have a plane they call a Stockholm plane for barrel making.
Glad to hear you are back (even I did check on you as you know).
Best of my thoughts,
Mads


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Just a little update to let my fellow participants know that I'm still alive. I do apologize for the delay. I had some dental problems and among other things I finally had to get a tooth yanked out, so I haven't been doing much lately. I got into the shop today for the first time in quite awhile. I finished perfecting the edge angles on the stave's that weren't quite right and I got all the dowels finished up and installed. I managed to drill one stave wrong and so I have to make a new one, but no big deal.
> 
> ...


*superdav721* Maybe I should try that for migraines? not sure what a gallon a day would do to my liver ?


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## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Just a little update to let my fellow participants know that I'm still alive. I do apologize for the delay. I had some dental problems and among other things I finally had to get a tooth yanked out, so I haven't been doing much lately. I got into the shop today for the first time in quite awhile. I finished perfecting the edge angles on the stave's that weren't quite right and I got all the dowels finished up and installed. I managed to drill one stave wrong and so I have to make a new one, but no big deal.
> 
> ...


TopamaxSurvivor I know where you can get a very well made bucket to hold said amount of bourbon.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Just a little update to let my fellow participants know that I'm still alive. I do apologize for the delay. I had some dental problems and among other things I finally had to get a tooth yanked out, so I haven't been doing much lately. I got into the shop today for the first time in quite awhile. I finished perfecting the edge angles on the stave's that weren't quite right and I got all the dowels finished up and installed. I managed to drill one stave wrong and so I have to make a new one, but no big deal.
> 
> ...


I'm hoping mine won't leak.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Just a little update to let my fellow participants know that I'm still alive. I do apologize for the delay. I had some dental problems and among other things I finally had to get a tooth yanked out, so I haven't been doing much lately. I got into the shop today for the first time in quite awhile. I finished perfecting the edge angles on the stave's that weren't quite right and I got all the dowels finished up and installed. I managed to drill one stave wrong and so I have to make a new one, but no big deal.
> 
> ...


*Bob* Sorry to hear about your problems with migraines. My wife suffered terribly for many years with migraines . She tried lots of different meds, but the only thing that ever worked for her was two aspirins and a Valium, prescribed by her doctor, sometimes two Valiums when necessary. She never became addicted to Valium, and she stopped using it about 10 years ago when the migraines stopped, but addiction is always a potential problem. I read in some health news that scientists have linked migraines to a defective gene. My younger son is also plagued with migraines. In his case the only thing that works for him is medicine used to lower blood pressure. I get migraines too, pretty frequently, with the flashing lights and impaired vision, but they go over in about 20 minutes and leave only a slight dull headache so I don't take anything for it, so I'm pretty lucky, but I do understand what a debilitating affliction migraines can be. I sincerely hope you get some relief from this Bob.

*Dennis* I will read your blog with interest. I saw some photos or films from Denmark showing the building of some Viking ships using the original methods and tools. It's probably related to the stuff in your blog. Very cool to see. I was amazed at how efficient they worked, and I assume they were even more proficient with their tools back in Viking times.

*Dave* A good idea. The bourbon doesn't take away the pain, but if you drink enough you don't care about it, lol. I hope you weren't thinking of putting bourbon in one of our buckets. I expect mine to leak like a sieve and I wouldn't want to waste anything!

*Rand* Glad you are following the project. I think most of us woodworkers are interested in how things were done before our time, even if we don't try to do it ourselves.

*Mads* Yes my impatient friend, the film was quite interesting and it was fun to watch how efficiently things can be made using with such modest tools, and all hand powered too. It was very kind of Houtje to send us the link. The plane used is called a 'fjeldsky' (mountain ski) in Norway. I did find that my jack plane mounted upside down in my bench worked just as well though.

Working mainly with hand tools is certainly pleasant. I have found myself using hand tools more often as my skill increases with them. They are often the most efficient tool for the job. I am very grateful for the machine tools though. they sure make life easier for me, and they allow me to do things that I just don't have the energy to do by hand anymore.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Just a little update to let my fellow participants know that I'm still alive. I do apologize for the delay. I had some dental problems and among other things I finally had to get a tooth yanked out, so I haven't been doing much lately. I got into the shop today for the first time in quite awhile. I finished perfecting the edge angles on the stave's that weren't quite right and I got all the dowels finished up and installed. I managed to drill one stave wrong and so I have to make a new one, but no big deal.
> 
> ...


Mike, Glad your wife got out of the woods on them!! They are supposed to be hereditary but no one in my lineage has ever had them except my sister. Yellow cheese and dark chocolate are her triggers. Mine are from eye glass prescriptions, light and a neck injury by a chiropractor. I think my cataract implants may be a permanent trigger. All I know for sure is one of the best researchers in Seattle at Swedish told me I had the most extensive migraine diaries she had ever seen in over 5,000 research patients and there was nothing she could do for me. I have pinned down the triggers an avoid them if possible. Right now I am recording humidity and air pressure because of an annual cycle that seems to be appearing now that the pain is low enough to tell differences in them daily. All the other drs have just made them worse, except for the pain control guy. Don't feel bad about me, think of all the poor guys with cancer and other dread diseases or are homeless. I just have a minor inconvenience to deal with!


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

*-*

Another little update. I've finished the stave's and tuned up all the edge angles, so my next step is to smooth the outside. As you might recall I referenced the inside of the stave's when locating the dowel holes. The idea is of course to have the inside of the bucket as smooth as possible. This worked out pretty good as you can see from the pictures below. I don't think my bucket will leak through the stave's now, but I'm not as confident about it being tight where the bottom fits into the lag.



















Because the stave's are aligned on the inside, when I smooth the outside, this will (theoretically) make all the stave's a uniform thickness. They aren't very far out, but this extra step will give the bucket a smoother appearance as well. I plan to keep repositioning the temporary bands as I work with my spokeshave. I'm not sure yet how I will hold the bucket during the smoothing, but I'll figure it out and pass along a photo. As you can see, I'm using ratchet type cargo fasteners which are dirt cheap and really work well.

I also plan to cut the binding materials tomorrow and I hope get them ready. The handle will be riven from a long piece of pine about 1/8" thick and soaked in water for a day or two. Once good and soaked I will try to bend it to a round shape and then put it into the bucket to dry. The bucket will help it retain it's round shape while it dries. I don't know how well this will work out, but we will see.

The binding will have to be split in two, again by riving with a knife, and then the pith in the center has to be cleaned out and the bark removed. After that the binding will have to be softened up by pulling it back and forth across a rounded post secured in the work bench or somewhere solid. After that the binding will be measured directly on the buck and marked to indicate where the locking notches are to be cut and then thinned out on the ends.

I'll be taking photos of everything needed and the methods for the above work as I do it myself, but I just wanted to give everyone a preview of the next steps in the project.


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another little update. I've finished the stave's and tuned up all the edge angles, so my next step is to smooth the outside. As you might recall I referenced the inside of the stave's when locating the dowel holes. The idea is of course to have the inside of the bucket as smooth as possible. This worked out pretty good as you can see from the pictures below. I don't think my bucket will leak through the stave's now, but I'm not as confident about it being tight where the bottom fits into the lag.
> 
> ...


Looking Good


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## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another little update. I've finished the stave's and tuned up all the edge angles, so my next step is to smooth the outside. As you might recall I referenced the inside of the stave's when locating the dowel holes. The idea is of course to have the inside of the bucket as smooth as possible. This worked out pretty good as you can see from the pictures below. I don't think my bucket will leak through the stave's now, but I'm not as confident about it being tight where the bottom fits into the lag.
> 
> ...


Looking almost water proof Mike. Will the binding's be constructed like swallowtail shaker boxes? And is your binding material kiln dried?


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another little update. I've finished the stave's and tuned up all the edge angles, so my next step is to smooth the outside. As you might recall I referenced the inside of the stave's when locating the dowel holes. The idea is of course to have the inside of the bucket as smooth as possible. This worked out pretty good as you can see from the pictures below. I don't think my bucket will leak through the stave's now, but I'm not as confident about it being tight where the bottom fits into the lag.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike,
Looking really good!
I will not be in the work shop from 9-15 Marts, so I will not be on the bucket for a week or so, but it could seem like you will be a good step ahead by then.
I finished your present this morning, so I will post it tomorrow, and you should have it not too long…
Best of my thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another little update. I've finished the stave's and tuned up all the edge angles, so my next step is to smooth the outside. As you might recall I referenced the inside of the stave's when locating the dowel holes. The idea is of course to have the inside of the bucket as smooth as possible. This worked out pretty good as you can see from the pictures below. I don't think my bucket will leak through the stave's now, but I'm not as confident about it being tight where the bottom fits into the lag.
> 
> ...


*Jamie* Thanks for your encouragement.
*Dave* The binding will be put on wet and shrink as it drys. This will (again theoretically) keep the stave's tight together.
*Mads* Thank you for the chance to catch up. I hope you will be having a wonderful time between the 9th and the 15th. I don't know what this present is, but I love you like a son for taking your own time to do anything for this old guy.


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another little update. I've finished the stave's and tuned up all the edge angles, so my next step is to smooth the outside. As you might recall I referenced the inside of the stave's when locating the dowel holes. The idea is of course to have the inside of the bucket as smooth as possible. This worked out pretty good as you can see from the pictures below. I don't think my bucket will leak through the stave's now, but I'm not as confident about it being tight where the bottom fits into the lag.
> 
> ...


looking forward to see you do some bindingwork 

thank´s for the update
take care
Dennis


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## sharad (Dec 26, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another little update. I've finished the stave's and tuned up all the edge angles, so my next step is to smooth the outside. As you might recall I referenced the inside of the stave's when locating the dowel holes. The idea is of course to have the inside of the bucket as smooth as possible. This worked out pretty good as you can see from the pictures below. I don't think my bucket will leak through the stave's now, but I'm not as confident about it being tight where the bottom fits into the lag.
> 
> ...


The bucket looks very nice even at this stage. Hats off to your meticulous way of doing it and for sharing with us so nicely.

Sharad


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## Roz (Jan 13, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another little update. I've finished the stave's and tuned up all the edge angles, so my next step is to smooth the outside. As you might recall I referenced the inside of the stave's when locating the dowel holes. The idea is of course to have the inside of the bucket as smooth as possible. This worked out pretty good as you can see from the pictures below. I don't think my bucket will leak through the stave's now, but I'm not as confident about it being tight where the bottom fits into the lag.
> 
> ...


You have been hard at work on this bucket for a while now. If buckets were this difficult to make, no wonder the Vikings had such bad attitudes. (JOKE)


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another little update. I've finished the stave's and tuned up all the edge angles, so my next step is to smooth the outside. As you might recall I referenced the inside of the stave's when locating the dowel holes. The idea is of course to have the inside of the bucket as smooth as possible. This worked out pretty good as you can see from the pictures below. I don't think my bucket will leak through the stave's now, but I'm not as confident about it being tight where the bottom fits into the lag.
> 
> ...


Hi Terry, good one. I thought it might be fun to respond seriously to your friendly quip in case folks are getting the impression about the work load involved, as it does seem excessive. Firstly, I would like to say that there has been a whole lot of down-time on my side due to health issues. As for work, I have actually done two buckets, but I had trouble with the dowels on the first one and ruined it because my staves were so thin. The vikings made staves down to 1/4" thick, but they were much better at it than me.

I think that I might be able to make a bucket in two days and certainly in three now from start to finish after getting the experience with these first ones. I am still struggling a bit with the bindings having run out of branches that failed due to breakage, and bad joints, but I think that is behind me now. I still have to learn to split branches properly, but that doesn't really slow me down that much.

I'm not sure how long it would take a viking to make one, but I would think about somewhere between 1/2 to a full day would be possible.

The doweling had to be hand carved in the old days from a squared stick and not just rounded, but also pointed at both ends with a cove in the center. A bucket with 12 stave's would require over 50 of these including the dowels in the bottom. So time consuming. Also he would have to have all the materials at hand including the binding materials.

I can now plane a stave outside and inside, cut the dado (lag) and angle the stave edges all in about 13 minutes each. Just a couple of hours work to make 12 staves. The bottom takes about 1/2 hours. Now you have a bucket that needs doweling. Making the dowels takes about 1 hour. Drilling for the dowels takes about 1 hour. Now you have a bucket that needs binding. All this supposes that everything goes perfectly, and of course it doesn't, but it's not so far off. No work breaks though!

I have found this to be so much fun that I plan to do more of these projects in the future where I can use the skills learned on the bucket to produce other things. Lots of possibilities with an historic perspective out there.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another little update. I've finished the stave's and tuned up all the edge angles, so my next step is to smooth the outside. As you might recall I referenced the inside of the stave's when locating the dowel holes. The idea is of course to have the inside of the bucket as smooth as possible. This worked out pretty good as you can see from the pictures below. I don't think my bucket will leak through the stave's now, but I'm not as confident about it being tight where the bottom fits into the lag.
> 
> ...


I hope your upcoming projects will be classes as well. I am thoroughly enjoying watching the progress and the learning curve of those building their own versions.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another little update. I've finished the stave's and tuned up all the edge angles, so my next step is to smooth the outside. As you might recall I referenced the inside of the stave's when locating the dowel holes. The idea is of course to have the inside of the bucket as smooth as possible. This worked out pretty good as you can see from the pictures below. I don't think my bucket will leak through the stave's now, but I'm not as confident about it being tight where the bottom fits into the lag.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you are enjoying this project Debbie. I think most of us are at least somewhat curious about what how woodworking was done by our forebears with rich traditions all the way back to ancient Egypt and probably a lot further back in time than that. I would like to do more of this sort of thing, perhaps building on the skills we are acquiring with this project or maybe something entirely different. Whatever catches the imagination.

Today I read an article about how the Egyptians drilled through granite while quarrying blocks of stone for use in building the pyramids. They used a wooden pin about 24" long and maybe 1" diameter. At the bottom of the pin was a tube made from copper. The tube was filled with sand or quartz. The sand acted as the grinding medium. The drilling pin of wood was driven by a bow about 1,25 M long. This bow technique was also used for making a fire, and myriad other uses, many in the area of woodworking. This example of course isn't woodworking, but it does illustrate almost forgotten skills with extremely simple tools to produce something which even after thousands of years is still one of the greatest wonders of the world.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another little update. I've finished the stave's and tuned up all the edge angles, so my next step is to smooth the outside. As you might recall I referenced the inside of the stave's when locating the dowel holes. The idea is of course to have the inside of the bucket as smooth as possible. This worked out pretty good as you can see from the pictures below. I don't think my bucket will leak through the stave's now, but I'm not as confident about it being tight where the bottom fits into the lag.
> 
> ...


your journey is going to be fascinating to follow - and a treasure for generations to come. 
I'm glad you are sharing the results of your curiousity with us


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

*-*

Hi fellow bucket enthusiasts. I finally have something new to show. Today I cut the binding materials and made some bands. The photo below shows the cut materials and some of the buds. This is the most difficult part of the project for me because I'm in unfamiliar territory here. In short, today was learning through minimal instruction and maximum experience. In other words trial and error. today was heavy on the error side. I'll take you through the step by step with the hope that you will benefit from my experience.

*BINDING MATERIAL*
Here's a picture of the branches I cut from the willow tree (or at least a willow cousin anyway). The 2nd picture shows the buds if that's any help. The last picture shows the pith in the center of each branch.

























*PREPARING THE BINDINGS*

*Step 1*
The bark and shoots should be removed from the branch. Then it should be split in two. I used a camp knife for this. The idea is to get the knife started and cut down a little and then twist the blade a little to continue the split. I've tried this 3 times now without success. The book I have doesn't give any details or tips on this work. Maybe you will have better luck. The split kept narrowing out to one side until it parted off the main branch. I therefore used the remaining half for each binding. That means I have to use one whole branch for each binding. If you do this correctly you will get two bindings from each branch. I hope you have better luck with this than I did.

The first photo below shows the bark being removed and the 2nd photo the 1/2 branch I'll be trying to make the band out of.

















*Step 2 planing the band*
Now it's time to plane away the pith and the wood surrounding it. It should be planed down to an even flat surface as shown in the photo below.









*Step 3 Making the band supple (bendable)*
The band should now be a pretty even thickness. Don't make it too thin or it will be weak, but an even thickness will give a good even bend without breakage. DON'T TRY TO BEND IT YET. FIRST YOU NEED TO MAKE IT SUPPLE. The band will be worked on the half round stock shown in photo 1 to make it soft and supple. This is done by pulling the band back and forth around the stock until it is supple. It takes a while. I also found thick spots on the band while doing this, so I stopped to thin it out a little with my knife. You will feel this and see it while you work. It can also be smart to start with short lengths of the band first and then work longer lengths as you go. This work is shown in photo 2 below. 

















*Step 4 Measuring the band*

The band is measured directly on the bucket. It is important that the bucket is tightly clamped before the actual measuring. In the photo below you will see that I've put the band around the already clamped bucket. One end of the band is clamped to the bucket so you can pull the band tight as possible with one hand and make a mark across both ends where the two ends of the band meet. These marks will be the cut line for the notches that will be carved in each, and which will hold the band together.









I forgot to take photos of the notches, but just as well since I did them a little incorrectly and also it turned out that my band wasn't quite long enough. I will show this work in the next blog.

*Step 4 Making the notches in the band*
I did the notches a little backwards and also my band wasn't quite long enough, but it did work anyway. After cutting the notches I hooked the two ends together. It was too tight to just slip it over and around the bucket, so I used the band lever which was shop made for this project. To my surprise it worked perfectly! I use it to lever the band on and then I used a piece of wood to gently knock it further down. I will be showing the proper way to make the notches in the next blog.

Below are photos showing the band mounted. It is sitting very tight on the bucket. I will have to replace it with a proper one, but I was thrilled with my partial success with this third band after total failure with the first two which broke before I could mark and install them. KEEP TRYING UNTIL YOU SUCCEED. IT'S THE PRICE WE PAY TO LEARN SOMETHING.



















I hope you got something useful out of today's blog. I might have to harvest a few more branches to get 4 good half round bands, but that's ok by me even though it's a bit of work to get a band prepared. If anyone has any tips about splitting the willow branches, please share it!


----------



## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hi fellow bucket enthusiasts. I finally have something new to show. Today I cut the binding materials and made some bands. The photo below shows the cut materials and some of the buds. This is the most difficult part of the project for me because I'm in unfamiliar territory here. In short, today was learning through minimal instruction and maximum experience. In other words trial and error. today was heavy on the error side. I'll take you through the step by step with the hope that you will benefit from my experience.
> 
> ...


Very Nice Mike! If it was willow you could chew the bark and you wouldn't get a headache. My Mawmaw taught me that when i was little. She was half Cherokee. She taught me many things and would love your bucket. I hope your project has no leaks.


----------



## therookie (Aug 29, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hi fellow bucket enthusiasts. I finally have something new to show. Today I cut the binding materials and made some bands. The photo below shows the cut materials and some of the buds. This is the most difficult part of the project for me because I'm in unfamiliar territory here. In short, today was learning through minimal instruction and maximum experience. In other words trial and error. today was heavy on the error side. I'll take you through the step by step with the hope that you will benefit from my experience.
> 
> ...


Thats looking good.


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hi fellow bucket enthusiasts. I finally have something new to show. Today I cut the binding materials and made some bands. The photo below shows the cut materials and some of the buds. This is the most difficult part of the project for me because I'm in unfamiliar territory here. In short, today was learning through minimal instruction and maximum experience. In other words trial and error. today was heavy on the error side. I'll take you through the step by step with the hope that you will benefit from my experience.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike,
It is looking so good!
Now I'm disturbed… I'm not able to work on this for a week, and I can't wait… Guess I get another important lesson in patience from the master. lol.
Don't worry, I will have plenty of other stuff in my mind, I am reading the Idiot by Fyodor Dostoyevsky, and enjoy this book a lot. Also I borrow a series of dvd's with videos of old Danish crafts that I will bring and watch.
And yes I need time to just smell Paris also. Ohhh yes and a kiss or two for Caroline if I get the time.
I look forward to see how you make these knobs, how you manage this.
Also how you use the lever.
I searched the internet and found nothing of splitting willow… 
Best of my thoughts,
Mads
(Ohhh yes I was at the post office…).


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hi fellow bucket enthusiasts. I finally have something new to show. Today I cut the binding materials and made some bands. The photo below shows the cut materials and some of the buds. This is the most difficult part of the project for me because I'm in unfamiliar territory here. In short, today was learning through minimal instruction and maximum experience. In other words trial and error. today was heavy on the error side. I'll take you through the step by step with the hope that you will benefit from my experience.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip *Dave*. If food prices keep escalating I might have to eat the willow bark for food, so it's good to know that it also cures headaches,lol. I have in fact heard about that before but I can't remember where. I love the idea that she might like the bucket. My wife's aunt in the states was 1/4 cherokee. She was a wonderful person and she was very kind to us when we were young. She grew up in Arkansas and lived to be 100 years old. She also visited us a couple of times years later here in Norway. I have very fond memories of here.

Thanks *Adam*, I need all the encouragement I can get.

I'm really glad you are taking this time off *Mads*. It's so hard to keep up with you. I've noticed that as I get older the world spins faster. I have read a few Dostoyevski novels including the idiot, but for some reason I can't remember it. I do remember it was a little weird. Maybe I didn't finish that one. Back in 1981 I spent a couple of weeks at the rheumatic hospital in Haugesund and I picked up Tolstoy's 'Anna Karenina' from the hospital library. It was a Norwegian translation and I still wasn't all that good with the language at that time. On top of that, I wasn't familiar with the Russian practice of people having all those different pet names for people. I really struggled with that book, but it was one of the best I've ever read. Thanks for trying to find something on willow splitting. I'm going to try a little different method today, still using just my knife. I am *not* going to try to saw it in my bandsaw! Have a good time in Paris and give my best regards to your Caroline.


----------



## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hi fellow bucket enthusiasts. I finally have something new to show. Today I cut the binding materials and made some bands. The photo below shows the cut materials and some of the buds. This is the most difficult part of the project for me because I'm in unfamiliar territory here. In short, today was learning through minimal instruction and maximum experience. In other words trial and error. today was heavy on the error side. I'll take you through the step by step with the hope that you will benefit from my experience.
> 
> ...


http://www.nativetech.org/willow/wilsplit.htm


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hi fellow bucket enthusiasts. I finally have something new to show. Today I cut the binding materials and made some bands. The photo below shows the cut materials and some of the buds. This is the most difficult part of the project for me because I'm in unfamiliar territory here. In short, today was learning through minimal instruction and maximum experience. In other words trial and error. today was heavy on the error side. I'll take you through the step by step with the hope that you will benefit from my experience.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for this link Debbie. It was very kind of you to take your time to find this info and post it. I did try it out with partial success. I managed to split a branch perfect except the last 10" using the advice in the link. Maybe next time I will get the whole thing done right. What would we do without all the really good people helping us out here on LJ? I just hope I don't start taking it for granted. You're a gem.


----------



## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hi fellow bucket enthusiasts. I finally have something new to show. Today I cut the binding materials and made some bands. The photo below shows the cut materials and some of the buds. This is the most difficult part of the project for me because I'm in unfamiliar territory here. In short, today was learning through minimal instruction and maximum experience. In other words trial and error. today was heavy on the error side. I'll take you through the step by step with the hope that you will benefit from my experience.
> 
> ...


The bark of white willow is basically asprin. I am looking forward to seeing how you notch the willow. I have seen Shaker boxes and how they band them which is pretty elegant but buckets require more robustness.

MsDebbie - that, is really cool. Thanks-


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hi fellow bucket enthusiasts. I finally have something new to show. Today I cut the binding materials and made some bands. The photo below shows the cut materials and some of the buds. This is the most difficult part of the project for me because I'm in unfamiliar territory here. In short, today was learning through minimal instruction and maximum experience. In other words trial and error. today was heavy on the error side. I'll take you through the step by step with the hope that you will benefit from my experience.
> 
> ...


gives me more respect for our ancestors who worked with the willow on a regular basis - the knowing that was in their hands.


----------



## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hi fellow bucket enthusiasts. I finally have something new to show. Today I cut the binding materials and made some bands. The photo below shows the cut materials and some of the buds. This is the most difficult part of the project for me because I'm in unfamiliar territory here. In short, today was learning through minimal instruction and maximum experience. In other words trial and error. today was heavy on the error side. I'll take you through the step by step with the hope that you will benefit from my experience.
> 
> ...


The wisdom and knowledge that some of these cultures and peoples across this world had within their midst is awe inspiring. What they did, with what they had, makes it that much more amazing.

Sorry to hijack the topic.


----------



## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hi fellow bucket enthusiasts. I finally have something new to show. Today I cut the binding materials and made some bands. The photo below shows the cut materials and some of the buds. This is the most difficult part of the project for me because I'm in unfamiliar territory here. In short, today was learning through minimal instruction and maximum experience. In other words trial and error. today was heavy on the error side. I'll take you through the step by step with the hope that you will benefit from my experience.
> 
> ...


thank´s for the blog Mike 
yes I´m still with you on the sideline 
someone has to volunteer to trow in the werd questions …. LOL
and here its coming (after a little headdec from trying to think) and not have seen Msdeppie´s link yet
wuoldn´t it be logic to split from the top to the bottom of the branch
to keep the knife in the mittle of it the hole length 
if you start from the bottom and don´t hit the excact mittle you will come
to a point where the knife get to the side before the top is reached 
I think I did see that in the vidio on the Nordic Craft Houtje pointed us to

take care
Dennis


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hi fellow bucket enthusiasts. I finally have something new to show. Today I cut the binding materials and made some bands. The photo below shows the cut materials and some of the buds. This is the most difficult part of the project for me because I'm in unfamiliar territory here. In short, today was learning through minimal instruction and maximum experience. In other words trial and error. today was heavy on the error side. I'll take you through the step by step with the hope that you will benefit from my experience.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that advice* Dennis*, I will try it out and let you know how it went. When I finally get it I will be over the moon with happiness.

*Dave* from Damascus. *All* comments are welcome and not considered 'high-jacking'. Thanks for your input.

*Debbie* The branches I'm using are too thick to split by hand, but the idea of bending the thick side a little to straighten out the split did seem to work, even though it couldn't be bent over as shown in the link.


----------



## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hi fellow bucket enthusiasts. I finally have something new to show. Today I cut the binding materials and made some bands. The photo below shows the cut materials and some of the buds. This is the most difficult part of the project for me because I'm in unfamiliar territory here. In short, today was learning through minimal instruction and maximum experience. In other words trial and error. today was heavy on the error side. I'll take you through the step by step with the hope that you will benefit from my experience.
> 
> ...


a good tip, then.glad it helped


----------



## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hi fellow bucket enthusiasts. I finally have something new to show. Today I cut the binding materials and made some bands. The photo below shows the cut materials and some of the buds. This is the most difficult part of the project for me because I'm in unfamiliar territory here. In short, today was learning through minimal instruction and maximum experience. In other words trial and error. today was heavy on the error side. I'll take you through the step by step with the hope that you will benefit from my experience.
> 
> ...


Stefang - 
I was thinking about this and have an idea - cut the thick end on a bias and put it in luke warm water for a day. It may be that the willow it dry and a little stiff.


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hi fellow bucket enthusiasts. I finally have something new to show. Today I cut the binding materials and made some bands. The photo below shows the cut materials and some of the buds. This is the most difficult part of the project for me because I'm in unfamiliar territory here. In short, today was learning through minimal instruction and maximum experience. In other words trial and error. today was heavy on the error side. I'll take you through the step by step with the hope that you will benefit from my experience.
> 
> ...


Thanks *David* I'll give it a try.


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

*-*

Well it's time to once again reveal my ignorance about ancient bucket making. Today I went out to the shop armed with some new knowledge about splitting willow branches, thanks to a link on willow splitting posted to me by Debbie.

I managed to almost perfectly split a willow branch with the new found info. If at first you don't succeed…....... In spite of this new found skill I still had mishaps that prevented me from making a good binding, but…..I did learn how to correctly cut the joints where the bindings hook together. A major learning point and another step towards success and mastering this archaic skill.

Today's subject is how to cut the band joints. Our forefathers were very clever and cunning in coming up with this joint. Not only does it work well, it is also a little hard to figure out, thereby eliminating competitors. However, having the advantage of various unclear drawings, several failed joints and a lot of luck, I have finally figured out how to do it. Those of you who are more gifted (have brains) won't have any problems with this joint.

As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words so the photo below shows the joint on one end. What the photo cannot convey is that the we are looking at the inside of the band. I have thinned out behind the cutout (to the left) and cut a shallow diagonal in toward the hook. The tip of the hook on the edge is slanted slightly towards the cut. It is cut this way in order to retain strength in the band while giving a positive and strong joint. Think of the diagonal cut as thinning the inside of the band from the top inside of the band and down to the bottom of the cut out hook.









The next photo shows both ends of the band each with their own hook, how they will be engaged, and how the ends of the band will be tucked away behind the outside of the band.









Here you see how the hooks go together. The ends beyond the hooks have to be thinned out so they fit snugly behind the main band and are invisible. I found that for me it easy to thin out the ends after hooking them together while the pieces to be thinned are supported by the main band.

This is how they look from the inside with everything in place. the end on left is carved too short. They should both be like the end on the right.









The next picture show what the joint should look like on the outside when finished.









Clear a mud? This is difficult to explain, but if you don't understand my description please let me know and I will try to come up with a better explanation. I managed to learn this through pictures in my book and some trial and error.

It's probably a good idea to make a practice band and try making the joints a number of times. Just cut off the failed ones and keep trying until you get it right or run out of band.

Some of you asked to see the band lever being used. the first photo is the bucket with the first band installed. I thought I did it wrong to start with, but it seems really good now. It dried up a bit overnight and shrank, and it is now so tight I can't move it at all. So I decided to just keep it.









And lastly using the band lever. This worked perfect, How ever the band I'm putting on was already botched at the joint, so this was just to show the lever in action.









I hope the above will

I won't be in the shop for a day or two, so I will have to continue with the banding as soon as I am able. Meanwhile I hope this will give you enough to think about for now. I am aiming at two bands at the top and two at the bottom.


----------



## MyChipCarving (Nov 4, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Well it's time to once again reveal my ignorance about ancient bucket making. Today I went out to the shop armed with some new knowledge about splitting willow branches, thanks to a link on willow splitting posted to me by Debbie.
> 
> ...


"Not only does it work well, it is also a little hard to figure out, thereby eliminating competitors."

I like this line  Good one!


----------



## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Well it's time to once again reveal my ignorance about ancient bucket making. Today I went out to the shop armed with some new knowledge about splitting willow branches, thanks to a link on willow splitting posted to me by Debbie.
> 
> ...


Wow, that's looking really good Mike! I think you've got it!
And now finally we see how the binding lever works, so now I understand where it is important ( and why) to curve the bearing surfaces. If the bottom is not curved, then it is likely to dent the bucket. If the hook is not curved, then it may not grab the hoop securely.

Excellent progress. The picture is worth a thousand words! If they only had digital cameras in 1500, it would be easy  but now you have it captured for everyone else from this point on…

thus inviting competitors ..and now you have broken the back of the wooden bucket making industry!


----------



## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Well it's time to once again reveal my ignorance about ancient bucket making. Today I went out to the shop armed with some new knowledge about splitting willow branches, thanks to a link on willow splitting posted to me by Debbie.
> 
> ...


I got it - the rabbit goes in the hole …..... wait, pearl 2 stitch 4….. no, owww just get some duct tape 
When the hook is cut right, Mike it looks like a vine that has naturally grown around a tree. I like it, lots. Great work. She is going to hold water. You wait and see.


----------



## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Well it's time to once again reveal my ignorance about ancient bucket making. Today I went out to the shop armed with some new knowledge about splitting willow branches, thanks to a link on willow splitting posted to me by Debbie.
> 
> ...


that binding lock looks very clever and well made Mike 
I even think they have bee used on barrels instead of iron if the barrels ain´t too big
can´t wait to see the water drip from it …. 
and if its tight then make one more and the shoulder vice (åg) and send the girl out 
to bring the milk home to the house …. LOL

take care
Dennis


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Well it's time to once again reveal my ignorance about ancient bucket making. Today I went out to the shop armed with some new knowledge about splitting willow branches, thanks to a link on willow splitting posted to me by Debbie.
> 
> ...


I appreciate all the positive comments. I just hope you won't be swearing at me when you actually try it.

I suggest you use a minimum 1" diameter banding on your first bucket. The smaller ones probably look a little better, but the larger size will allow you more room for error without a loss of strength in the joint.

I had intended to harvest some more branches today, but this is what we woke up to.










I used up the larger sized willow branches yesterday due to various errors. Some were incorrectly jointed and too weak, a couple of others broke at offshoot junctions. It takes a lot of work and time to learn something new without proper instruction, but the joy of finally getting it right is all the greater for that. So if you experience some problems, keep at it and you will learn something from each failure until you experience success.


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Well it's time to once again reveal my ignorance about ancient bucket making. Today I went out to the shop armed with some new knowledge about splitting willow branches, thanks to a link on willow splitting posted to me by Debbie.
> 
> ...


Mike you are nothing less than wonderful today!
I think this blog 23 has all the wonders going on! A catch 23? Stop Mads.
So I see the lever in action, and this makes me sure I will reinforce mine a little.
The binding are clever, and I cant wait to get to this. Clever also to wait with final shaping until the knot are made. Mike you are at your best!
Steve I love your 'if only they had a camera in' that really made me laugh.
I think today is a day of smiles, perhaps because it is MSDebbie birthday.
If the water runs out we can always put a plastic bag inside and call it invetion!
The best of my thoughts,
Mads


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Well it's time to once again reveal my ignorance about ancient bucket making. Today I went out to the shop armed with some new knowledge about splitting willow branches, thanks to a link on willow splitting posted to me by Debbie.
> 
> ...


Mike I only have thinner branches, and nowhere to harvest, so I will have to give it a try when I get back.
Can we get the link you got about splitting?
It looks beautiful there, here it's spring.
I start to be almost a little spiritual now! MsDebbie in your post, I made a MsDebbie hammer, the smoke, and now her birth day… http://lumberjocks.com/projects/45756
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Well it's time to once again reveal my ignorance about ancient bucket making. Today I went out to the shop armed with some new knowledge about splitting willow branches, thanks to a link on willow splitting posted to me by Debbie.
> 
> ...


I love your plastic bag idea Mads and I'm sure I will need it! I off to shop some food so I will be looking at your hammer project a little later.


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Well it's time to once again reveal my ignorance about ancient bucket making. Today I went out to the shop armed with some new knowledge about splitting willow branches, thanks to a link on willow splitting posted to me by Debbie.
> 
> ...


*Mads* here is the link you asked for about willow splitting that I got from Debbie.

http://www.nativetech.org/willow/wilsplit.htm


----------



## swirt (Apr 6, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Well it's time to once again reveal my ignorance about ancient bucket making. Today I went out to the shop armed with some new knowledge about splitting willow branches, thanks to a link on willow splitting posted to me by Debbie.
> 
> ...


Very cool Mike. Thanks for showing this.


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Well it's time to once again reveal my ignorance about ancient bucket making. Today I went out to the shop armed with some new knowledge about splitting willow branches, thanks to a link on willow splitting posted to me by Debbie.
> 
> ...


Thanks Swirt. I just took a look at your home page and I see I have missed all your great posts. I especially liked the folding chisel holder. I've been thinking about something better for my carving chisels than the tool roll I now use, and the folding holder would be perfect to just fold near my carving projects. I also liked your very unique mini-lathe. I don't need one, but I thought it could be quite useful to someone without a lathe. Great for kids too.


----------



## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Well it's time to once again reveal my ignorance about ancient bucket making. Today I went out to the shop armed with some new knowledge about splitting willow branches, thanks to a link on willow splitting posted to me by Debbie.
> 
> ...


Here is an excellent demonstration of how to split coppiced hazel for the making of a traditional hurdle ( which were used for fencing stock). The split hazel is used to weave between upright 'sails' forming a large flat panel.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Well it's time to once again reveal my ignorance about ancient bucket making. Today I went out to the shop armed with some new knowledge about splitting willow branches, thanks to a link on willow splitting posted to me by Debbie.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the video Steve. I have been using my knife like he did at the start. Maybe I can clamp a sharpened piece of oak in my workbench to complete the split like in the video. My problem with these can of course also be that the limbs I'm trying to split aren't completely suitable. I will keep trying until I succeed though. I don't want to lose my 'Master' title endowed me by Mads.


----------



## Roz (Jan 13, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Well it's time to once again reveal my ignorance about ancient bucket making. Today I went out to the shop armed with some new knowledge about splitting willow branches, thanks to a link on willow splitting posted to me by Debbie.
> 
> ...


The bucket is really looking great. Even though I am not building a bucket with you I have learned a great deal by watching your progress. The video From Steve is great. I saw those in England on several visits but did not know how they were made. I have the Farmers knife but did not know how it was traditionally used…. great stuff!


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Well it's time to once again reveal my ignorance about ancient bucket making. Today I went out to the shop armed with some new knowledge about splitting willow branches, thanks to a link on willow splitting posted to me by Debbie.
> 
> ...


Yes, that was a great video Terry. I wondered what that knife was called. I was a little surprised he didn't use a 'froe', which is normally used to split spokes from logs, but maybe that has too thick a blade for splitting branches.


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

*-*

Another short update from Mike's inferno. I never was a math whiz and I still have problems dividing those darned willow branches. Maybe numbers are easier to work with after all.

I ran out of willow branches, having destroyed all but *the one* I successfully installed. I would harvest some more branches, but we still have a lot of snow and in fact it's snowing pretty heavily right now. I know you aren't reading this blog to get a weather report from Norway, but I need an excuse for the bucket delay. I had a nightmare last night that I was suffocating under a mountain of willow bark!

I thought that since the bucket building is in WOW status (don't get excited, it means waiting on weather). I could show you a nice drawing of how the banding joint should be cut. I know you get it, but just in case someone doesn't, the rounded lines represent where the carving is. Looks easy huh? After you ace this the first time you will understand why I consider myself challenged in the world of woodworking. I am much more clever with money, mainly in the area of spending it.










I was thinking it might be amusing to bury one of these buckets in a peat bog and when it's found a 1,000 years from now and carbon dated to 2011, some fantasts will claim that the Vikings had mastered the art of time travel!

Well, I've run out of corn for today, so have a pleasant day wherever you are and try to remain patient. There will be an end to this project, .......................eventually.


----------



## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another short update from Mike's inferno. I never was a math whiz and I still have problems dividing those darned willow branches. Maybe numbers are easier to work with after all.
> 
> ...


i was cleaning the yard the other day
all the plastic and plastic buckets
were deteriorating
and breaking into little brittle pieces

yours may be the only bucket to survive this modern time


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another short update from Mike's inferno. I never was a math whiz and I still have problems dividing those darned willow branches. Maybe numbers are easier to work with after all.
> 
> ...


True David. I'm sure it will be in my family's possession, and in the not too distant future a great grandson will say "See, these are the kind of buckets they used when my great grandfather was alive".

It's good to hear from you. How is your workshop project coming along? If I were in the States I would come out and help you build it. I love those kind of projects (although my back has a different opinion these days).


----------



## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another short update from Mike's inferno. I never was a math whiz and I still have problems dividing those darned willow branches. Maybe numbers are easier to work with after all.
> 
> ...


mine to mike
but the best remedy seems to be to ignore it
it's cheaper than the doctors here
they don't do a thing
but charge high prices

i use the saving to buy wood


----------



## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another short update from Mike's inferno. I never was a math whiz and I still have problems dividing those darned willow branches. Maybe numbers are easier to work with after all.
> 
> ...


I don't wish to see an end to this project….
Thanks for the diagram. That helps to visualize it in a different way.
Just think, since it is heading towards spring there, your willow should be very supple and easy to split and debark, so time may be in your favor.

I am glad I am not having those nightmares…yet.


----------



## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another short update from Mike's inferno. I never was a math whiz and I still have problems dividing those darned willow branches. Maybe numbers are easier to work with after all.
> 
> ...


Mike the drawing is much better. The grain shows the story.
It looks like half a dovetail.


----------



## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another short update from Mike's inferno. I never was a math whiz and I still have problems dividing those darned willow branches. Maybe numbers are easier to work with after all.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike,
Suffocating under a mountain of willow bark, my God as if the snow was not enough.
Hope I will not be dreaming that I'm under a mountain of Popular Woodworking Magazine, lol.
I think we need more some time travel back to ask for help.
It's a really nice drawing, but I fear much more to be dividing those branches of mine now…
Best of my thoughts,
Mads


----------



## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another short update from Mike's inferno. I never was a math whiz and I still have problems dividing those darned willow branches. Maybe numbers are easier to work with after all.
> 
> ...


Okay you winners lets travel back in time …. what periode shuold it bee lady´s and gentlemen
before the fire you say ….. are you mad …. there is no woodworking except maybee 
a natural club 
what ells can you come op with ? in the waiting time

Dennis


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another short update from Mike's inferno. I never was a math whiz and I still have problems dividing those darned willow branches. Maybe numbers are easier to work with after all.
> 
> ...


*David* We have socialized medicine here (free), but they never seem able cure anything either. At least we don't have to pay for the lack of results. I have the same philosophy as you, I just ignore it and work until all I can see is my shoes, then I hit my Lazyboy chair.

*Steve* Makes me feel good that you are enjoying the project. If I run out of willow branches I still have a Mountain Ash tree in the garden. After seeing the video on hurdle making I also read in my lagging book that Hazel is also a good binding material among others. Small world.

*Dave* It does have a slanted hook. Maybe a half-lap dovetail.

*Mads* I doubt you will experience the problems I've encountered. I am a guru of the learning through error method, but I don't have many followers.

*Dennis* We could start a club club and call it Lumberclubs. The meetings would be….............interesting.


----------



## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another short update from Mike's inferno. I never was a math whiz and I still have problems dividing those darned willow branches. Maybe numbers are easier to work with after all.
> 
> ...


yah that wuold be very interesting speciel if we landed next to a Mamut with clubs in hand …... LOL

I don´t think its bad to have the bucket set up as in the picture for a while and settle a little before
you add the last willow rings

now I will see if I can come to the shop to today I was a little chocked yesterday not have seen or heard
anything the hole day before I loggen in and did see your post about Japan and now they seems to have to deal with a meltdown too we just have to hope they can do something with it so we don´t get a new tjernobyl

take care
Dennis


----------



## Clung (Oct 14, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another short update from Mike's inferno. I never was a math whiz and I still have problems dividing those darned willow branches. Maybe numbers are easier to work with after all.
> 
> ...


I too am suffering under a pile of willow bark, taking another go at it today. The splitting seems to work well for me, it's a matter of pressure as to which hand pulls the split apart. But the joint and bending still have me struggling - lots of splits and breaks. I soaked some overnight and may try steaming today. Thanks for the drawings and instruction - hopefully eventually I'll figure it out! Oh and your scenic snow pictures - that's been my view for the last six months!


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another short update from Mike's inferno. I never was a math whiz and I still have problems dividing those darned willow branches. Maybe numbers are easier to work with after all.
> 
> ...


Hi Clarence. I'm sorry the poblem you're having with the branches. However, I haven't had any problem with the bending part so far, but I have messed quite a few up while cutting the joints.

However, I think I have the jointing down pretty well now, but I've run out of branches. I'm going to try and get some new ones today. I hope your willow branches are cut fresh and not all dried out.

I found that the secret to the bending is to plane each half down to an even thickness and to try and keep any outgrowth knots (shoots) oriented on the edges as much as possible. this will prevent breakage at those positions later while you work it around the post. I probably forgot to mention this in my blog.

As you can see from the blogs I first planed down the half round to get rid of the pith and the groove and the groove the pith sits in. Then I checked the profile to find any thick spots. I then thinned these with my camp knife to get an overall even thickness.

I started the softening process with just one short end with my one hand choked up on the long end to make a small loop. I worked this carefully at first. I could feel that there were still some thick areas, and I thinned these out as I went, using my camp knife.

As the sections of the band became softer, I worked the area more vigorously until they became supple, then I lengthened the loop gradually as I worked it back and forth against the post until the whole length had been worked and the band could then be bent without the danger of breaking.

I thought beforehand that the banding would be the most difficult part to master. I also thing it adds the most to the project, so it is a skill well worth learning. I am just going to continue until I've learned all the little details necessary to get a good band. I think I'm close. I have set to properly split a band properly, but that's not a big problem, as I can afford to waste the bad half. I expect that I can produce a good band now after having learned the joiniting. I just need some branches to finish . I hope this above explanations will help you with your struggle. Good luck!


----------



## Clung (Oct 14, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another short update from Mike's inferno. I never was a math whiz and I still have problems dividing those darned willow branches. Maybe numbers are easier to work with after all.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the ideas stefang - I wasn't planing them down - just working them as they split. That makes a lot of sense, as they were uneven and the different thicknesses were causing grief. Rereading your blog 22 shows me my mistake - I must have missed that part or forgotten it! The willow is fresh cut, although we are still weeks away from any buds. But I'll keep at it - I want to get it right! Thanks again!


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another short update from Mike's inferno. I never was a math whiz and I still have problems dividing those darned willow branches. Maybe numbers are easier to work with after all.
> 
> ...


Mike, I have been following the trials and tribulations here with the willows. I am a bit behind. I think I will slightly taper the staves to add a bit of style, then skip the binding. That will leave a lot more area for my mom to rosemall. Is that a cop out or what?


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another short update from Mike's inferno. I never was a math whiz and I still have problems dividing those darned willow branches. Maybe numbers are easier to work with after all.
> 
> ...


Hi Bob. If you taper the stave's the bucket will of course have a wider bottom or top depending on which end you taper. No, I don't think leaving out the banding is a cop-out. I am guessing you will be gluing the stave's then. I'm glad that you have shown an interest in the project and are making the bucket in a way that pleases you. This project is for learning some ancient skills in the name of enjoyment. How you choose to do it is entirely up to you. Just glad you are participating.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another short update from Mike's inferno. I never was a math whiz and I still have problems dividing those darned willow branches. Maybe numbers are easier to work with after all.
> 
> ...


I am thinking a bit wider at the top, but that does intorduce a whole new problem of a variable diameter on the inside ;-) The outside will be esier to round off. Yes, gluing them is what I am thinking.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another short update from Mike's inferno. I never was a math whiz and I still have problems dividing those darned willow branches. Maybe numbers are easier to work with after all.
> 
> ...


Hi Bob. I don't think the varying inside diameter would be a problem. The angle on the edges remains the same from top to bottom. The radius from top to bottom doesn't vary a whole lot.

I think you could just plane the same radius the length of the stave and then smooth the inside as necessary after assembly.

A two handled shave would be ideal for this work, Another way that comes to mind might be a rounded card scraper or maybe you could just sand it smooth with a 60 grit drum sander mounted on your hand drill. A wide and shallow carving gouge might also work.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Another short update from Mike's inferno. I never was a math whiz and I still have problems dividing those darned willow branches. Maybe numbers are easier to work with after all.
> 
> ...


Might be eaiser than I was thinking. I'm not going to do an agressive taper.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

*-*

*A progress update.*

I haven't been in the shop for a few weeks due to illness. Now I'm ok and back at it. As you might remember, I had been struggling with the bindings. these are willow branches that are split, planed down and joined with a specially cut joint (no glue or fasteners).

Well, I'm glad to report after working my way through about 10 of these and having failed 9 times, I finally learned it! I can now say that I can properly split branches and get 2 bands from 1 branch, plane them evenly and cut the joints properly. Personally I'm not too impressed with my learning ability, but I am relieved that I can now finish my project before I die of old age!

Today I managed to get 2 more bands made and installed. I also put a bevel on all the edges including the bottom inside and outside, likewise the top rim and handle ears. The critical part is the bottom as this can chip out when you set it down hard. This work took about 1-1/2 hours. I still have one band to go, but it was either to continue working or have dinner and I'm not known to miss a meal.Besides the remaining band, I have to make a handle, but unfortunately I've run out of wood for that, so I have to get some tomorrow. Below are photos of my progress so far. The first pic shows the binding joints which I am much too proud of.


















I am wondering how all of you other participants are doing with your buckets and I hope no one is getting discouraged by my unplanned delays or having the kind of technical problems I've had. I hope to hear from you soon!


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


Mike, glad you are back and healthy! Your bucket looks excellent. If you didn't tell me that a band was missing, I wouldn't even know it.

I've managed to begin on the bucket itself and I have the bottom glued and planed and am ready to start on the staves. I've got my pine wood selected. I've been delayed, not by sickness but by a rush to finish some outdoor house maintenance tasks ( trim painting, adding insulation) before the fall season closes in. Darn it, I actually had to light a fire this morning, so not a moment too soon. I hope to make better progress in the next few weeks.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


To your health. The bucket is fabulous!


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


such a nice piece of work mike

take your time and enjoy
it's not like you will be making endless trips
to the stream for water

one good journey
bucket in hand
in pictures

and the world 
will see the value of your work

stay healthy
enjoy


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


great to hear you are back on your feet Mike 
and the bucket looks good even with the missing band and handle

take care
Dennis


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## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


Mike is back. woo woo.;0;0 OK I got to ask the question. hmmmm. Lets drink to your health. Would you have a container that say holds water?


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


That is awesome Mike! Looks better than originals, It is good enough to bury in the peat bog to mess with the minds of archaeologists in 3030 ;-))


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


*Steve* It's so weird thinking that you are in fall there while we are in spring. I hope that you, like myself will be able to spend more time in the shop in winter. As for myself, I now have to get the garden into shape and then paint our house. That's why I'm already looking forward to next winter and envying you in the meantime.

*Al* Your are a master of the overstatement, but thanks for your encouragement.

*David* I will take those pics with the bucket full, but I just hope I won't be mistaken for a statue in a water fountain!

*Dennis* Thanks, it's good to be back in the shop, at least for the little while I have left before the upkeep season starts.

*Dave* I do have a container that holds water, but it's probably not my ancient bucket. I am (unrealistically) hoping though.

*Bob* Thanks, how long do you think I would have to keep it buried in the bog before selling it to a museum? I could use the money after all the dental work I've had done recently. I got the dental work so I could continue to eat properly, and now my teeth are better, but I can't afford to buy food now. Life is a constant catch 22, lol.

It's been good to hear from all of you and I hope to show you a finished product very soon, including the 'wet test'. That is bound to be the humorous part of this project and also to seal my fate as a class leader for future projects.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


I have often thought how much simpler life would be if we just grazed like cattle do, or maybe browsed like deer ;-))


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


even the best teachers has to bee tested now and then to bring them back to earth
so start smile at yourself while we laugh before and not after …. LOL

take care
Dennis


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


Sounds good Bob. There were times in Norway when people added ground tree bark to stretch the flour they had for baking bread, and of course dandelion leaves taste quite good.

Luckily I don't have to make a living as a teacher, but if I did I would teach my pupils everything I know and then retire on the 2nd day.


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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


Great job Mike, you should be very proud of your achievements.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


Thanks Andy. These buckets are actually quite simple to make and shouldn't take much time either, but the tool making and other skills required to make the bucket did make it a bit of a challenge. Though I expect that some others could learn it quicker than I did. That said, it is always a bit of a triumph when one finally gets it right.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


Hi Mike,
It's looking good, really good, I was planning to make mine with more narrow bindings, but… We will see.
Now I just need to be back in buisness again, thought you would finish way after me, and now it seem like it has turned, life is so wonderfully impossible to guess.
SIMPLE!!!
I just made a handplane and spend 40 hours making mine…
Laugh.
No it's true, it is simple, but just a lot of new to learn.
I love the process.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


Hi Mads. My strategy was to delay the progress so you would lose interest and then I could come back with a fast finish to be first, This seems to be working, lol.

I can now say I know how to make the bands properly. Today I did the last one and they all look as good as I had hoped. I did pay a high price in terms of time and materials to learn this skill, but now I am proud to have an ancient skill.

I am cheating on the handle. I bandsawed several thin lenghts of pine and laminated them. They are clamped onto a round form and are now drying. It was getting near dinner time so I did this last bit rather quickly, so I'm not sure if it will be good enough. It's the first laminated bent work I've done. I probably shouldn't have rushed it, but I might not get into the shop for long tomorrow and I want to finish the project and do the water test. I need a good laugh.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


Mike, Ii believe plumber's water test waste lines by filling them with water and they have to hold it for 24 hours without leaking. How long do you hope to hold it without leaking? ;-)


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


Hi Bob. Firstly let me say that I expect my bucket to leak due to this being a first for me. I think it will be tight between the stave's, but I have grave doubts about where the bottom is seated in the grooves. So I am hoping that it will be leak free, but not expecting it to be.

As for the test, that will be somewhat in reverse of the plumber's test you mentioned. It will surely leak at least a little at the beginning, but as the wood swells the leaks should diminish and eventually stop altogether (in my dreams anyway). This might be similar to a wooden boat that has been drying out for some time and then relaunching it.

I'm not planning to use the bucket for fetching water, so it's not really important that it be leak free, but I will be pleased if it is, as it will make me feel that I have at least come close to an acceptable quality.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


Maybe a 2 day test is more appropriate, one for swelling and one for testing?


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


I think it will swell enough in 1/2 hr. or maybe even a lot less time. I'll be taking photos and timing it. I should be ready tomorrow. I can't wait. It's the most exciting thing that's happened to me in the past year, except for getting that marking gauge from Mads.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


Mike, I think we must lead dull lives if this is excitement ;-)) ;-))


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


How true Bob, and well observed.


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## lumberdustjohn (Sep 24, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


Beautiful work.
Bands look great!


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


Thanks much John. I've finished up now and I'm just about to write the blog.


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


Mike, it's funny how you associate winter with working in the shop. My shop is an unheated 2 car garage which relies mostly on natural lighting so it's actually the opposite for me. Since the days are short and it's too cold on my hands to stay in the shop for long, winter is when I turn to indoor things and prefer to sit in front of the fire and play with Sketchup.

Looking forward to reading the next part…


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


Hi Steve, I don't get into the shop much in summer. Just too many chores in the garden and around the house. I am also slowing down quite a bit in my old age. Years ago I just went to the shop in the evenings if I was busy elsewhere during the day, I don't have the energy for that anymore.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


Those 30 and 40 somethings are going to discover their "golden years" were then, eh Mike?

I still spend too much time out of the shop and in a dark room; I feel your pain;-( 
This last year I have felt a lot better and sometimes wondered why I wasted so much time in bed when I was recovering from Topamax Poisoning and with migraines. This new neurologist has rekindled some of those lingering Topamax side effects. Now I am wondering how I was able to function as much as I did. We are very fortunate to have such trivial problems compared to the rest of the world.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> *A progress update.*
> 
> ...


For sure Bob. Sometimes I gripe about this and that, so I have to constantly remind myself how good a life I have and that I should very grateful for that.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

*-*

Today I finished my bucket project. The best part of the project for me has been doing the work, learning some new skills and last but not least enjoying the dialog with the other participants and everyone else who has commented on our progress from the start. I'm also pleased (and relieved) that I made it to the finish line.

We have been working on this project, or class as Debbbie has defined it, for about 3 months. None of us has to my knowledge used an inordinate amount of time on the work, but life has a way of keeping one busy with a lot more than just woodworking!

*Just to recap the project*, our end goal was to make an ancient bucket. The idea was to make it like they did in the past without metal fasteners or glue. Just a bunch of wooden stave's all planed by hand and grooved for the bottom. The bucket to be held together with willow branch bindings around it and kept in tension with a (very) special joining method, again with no fasterners.

*How I experienced the project*. Most of the work was fairly straightforward and the tools worked extremely well. The biggest challenge for me was the willow bindings. I ruined quite a few willow branches, but I stuck with it until I got it right, and now I'm very happy with the result. The bindings are what attracted me to this project to begin with. The idea that such a simple accessible thing can be so useful still amazes me. In the old days, gathering these willow branches and selling them to container makers became a cottage industry that anyone with some extra time could do.

The first thing we had to do was to make the special tools needed to make the bucket with. These tools included a (1) a round bottomed hand plane to round the inside of the staves with, (2) a special long handled knife to cut the the groove in the inside bottom of each stave where the bottom edge would fit into, and lastly (3) a binding lever to help with stretching the willow bands over the outside of the bucket. All three of the finished tools together with the bucket are pictured in the photo below.










Here are some photos with a close-up of the finished bucket including the handle pins and attachment bolts which are made out of birch and hand carved.


































*The water test* Although this bucket was intended to be used only for decoration, I was interested in finding out if the bucket would leak. So here are some photos of the test with a caption for each one.










Filling with water.










Good news, only leaking out from the bottom.








Refilled the bucket after some initial swelling (10 min.) and moved to a new location for a timed test.









After 30 minutes still about 1-1/2" of water left. I'm pretty happy with the result. The book I have on the subject indicates that these were never 100% water tight. This bucket could be useful for carrying water.

Now a series of photos showing the outsides just to show that there was no leakage whatsoever between the stave's on the outside.


































And finally the last photo after the transfer of ownership to my wife.

*What next?* Thanks to Mads slowing down to allow me to finish first, the other participants are still working on their buckets. I am hoping to see them blog their progress and completion too. It would also be nice if we could gather photos of all the participants in one blog if possible. So the class is not over until everyone is done. Then I will write a final blog at that time.

For anyone interested in how the tools and bucket were made, you can refer to all the blogs in this series. A list of these can be found on my home page under 'Blogs'. I will try to also summarize the other participants blogs on the project in my final blog so you can also see how the others approached the project. Everyone is doing this work a little differently, so it should be interesting to see.

Meanwhile thanks for following with and I'm glad to answer any questions you might have.


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## Broglea (Dec 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Today I finished my bucket project. The best part of the project for me has been doing the work, learning some new skills and last but not least enjoying the dialog with the other participants and everyone else who has commented on our progress from the start. I'm also pleased (and relieved) that I made it to the finish line.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mike. I probably won't have the time to make my own bucket, but it has been very interesting following along. Your bucket looks great!


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Today I finished my bucket project. The best part of the project for me has been doing the work, learning some new skills and last but not least enjoying the dialog with the other participants and everyone else who has commented on our progress from the start. I'm also pleased (and relieved) that I made it to the finish line.
> 
> ...


Beautiful job, Mike! and it held water, how much more could you ask for? Even the transformation after the change of ownership is a thing of beauty.

Proof once again that it's difficult to improve on a great idea and design.

With just a couple of small pieces of sharp steel and some renewable resources, we can create an abundance of useful objects using only the things found around us already.

Watch this space, as the knowledge and skill which you have resurrected here in pictures and words in a 21st century format will become an important resource.

Thanks for all the time taken to teach us. Now, if I can only be 1/2 as good as my master…


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Today I finished my bucket project. The best part of the project for me has been doing the work, learning some new skills and last but not least enjoying the dialog with the other participants and everyone else who has commented on our progress from the start. I'm also pleased (and relieved) that I made it to the finish line.
> 
> ...


Thanks *Broglea* If not now, maybe sometime in the future. The blog will be in the files here on LJ.

Well *Steve*, I certainly don't purport to be a master at anything, much less bucket making. I did have an advantage since I had the book for this type of work. The book is very well written, but like so many books, it leaves out many critical details. That means you just have to have perseverance in order to finally understand and be able to do the work. I've tried to supply the right info as we progressed, so I hope I haven't left anything out.


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## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Today I finished my bucket project. The best part of the project for me has been doing the work, learning some new skills and last but not least enjoying the dialog with the other participants and everyone else who has commented on our progress from the start. I'm also pleased (and relieved) that I made it to the finish line.
> 
> ...


well done … I have enjoyed following this project. I used a old wooden farm bucket back in the fifties … bet not many still in use today.


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## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Today I finished my bucket project. The best part of the project for me has been doing the work, learning some new skills and last but not least enjoying the dialog with the other participants and everyone else who has commented on our progress from the start. I'm also pleased (and relieved) that I made it to the finish line.
> 
> ...


Congrats on the lessons and methods taught here. It is now on the internet for all to see. Mike I am glad to see the it is functional. You have taught tool making, coopering, and joinery plus comradeship amongst fellow woodworkers. I unofficially dupe you a COOPER. Congrats again, I have so enjoyed watching you on your journey. 
thank you,
Dave


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## littlecope (Oct 23, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Today I finished my bucket project. The best part of the project for me has been doing the work, learning some new skills and last but not least enjoying the dialog with the other participants and everyone else who has commented on our progress from the start. I'm also pleased (and relieved) that I made it to the finish line.
> 
> ...


Very Enjoyable Series Mike!! 
The Bucket came out Excellent!!


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## Houtje (Apr 6, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Today I finished my bucket project. The best part of the project for me has been doing the work, learning some new skills and last but not least enjoying the dialog with the other participants and everyone else who has commented on our progress from the start. I'm also pleased (and relieved) that I made it to the finish line.
> 
> ...


That's a pretty one.
Thanks for the blogs,I realy injoyed it.


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## kenn (Mar 19, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Today I finished my bucket project. The best part of the project for me has been doing the work, learning some new skills and last but not least enjoying the dialog with the other participants and everyone else who has commented on our progress from the start. I'm also pleased (and relieved) that I made it to the finish line.
> 
> ...


And it HOLDS WATER! That's great.


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Today I finished my bucket project. The best part of the project for me has been doing the work, learning some new skills and last but not least enjoying the dialog with the other participants and everyone else who has commented on our progress from the start. I'm also pleased (and relieved) that I made it to the finish line.
> 
> ...


congrat´s Mike 
it is realy a very fine bucket and I like the way you have used attachment bolts and a pin on the handle 
thank´s for teaching us Mike it has been a pleasure to follow this on the sideline

take care
Dennis


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Today I finished my bucket project. The best part of the project for me has been doing the work, learning some new skills and last but not least enjoying the dialog with the other participants and everyone else who has commented on our progress from the start. I'm also pleased (and relieved) that I made it to the finish line.
> 
> ...


congratulations!!!!

let me know when everyone has finished (in case I miss it)-everyone will get a special LumberJocks' Class certificate


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## Timbo (Aug 21, 2008)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Today I finished my bucket project. The best part of the project for me has been doing the work, learning some new skills and last but not least enjoying the dialog with the other participants and everyone else who has commented on our progress from the start. I'm also pleased (and relieved) that I made it to the finish line.
> 
> ...


Mike
Thanks for doing this blog, it has been fun following along and interesting to learn how these are made and your bucket turned out great too!


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Today I finished my bucket project. The best part of the project for me has been doing the work, learning some new skills and last but not least enjoying the dialog with the other participants and everyone else who has commented on our progress from the start. I'm also pleased (and relieved) that I made it to the finish line.
> 
> ...


Thanks everyone for the positive comments. As you have probably deduced, this project was more about the fun and interaction than the final product. For me it was a leap of faith. After getting the idea to invite others to make buckets as a group I began to worry that I might not be able to teach others when I didn't really know how to make one myself. But I had a good book on the subject by Johan Hopstad, a Norwegian woodworker/author and I thought we could stumble our way to success. Of course the other participants have been at a disadvantage having only myself as their main source of info. But now I am really looking forward to sharing the others experience as they progress/finish.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Today I finished my bucket project. The best part of the project for me has been doing the work, learning some new skills and last but not least enjoying the dialog with the other participants and everyone else who has commented on our progress from the start. I'm also pleased (and relieved) that I made it to the finish line.
> 
> ...


Hi my so dear Mike,
Yes you got me at the end!
And what a beautiful job you have done, it has really become bucket you should be proud of.
The water test made me bite my nails, and the result made me nervous for mine… YOU DID IT!
AMAZING.
I am in Paris now, but put my branches for the bindings in water before I left, so I hope that when I return I can get to finish mine also, and become a member of your bucket club.
I have gotten so much more than a bucket out of this class, you have been a teacher in so many important aspects of life to me on this time we shared on the project.
It is not the last you hear from me!
Best thoughts my dear Mike,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Today I finished my bucket project. The best part of the project for me has been doing the work, learning some new skills and last but not least enjoying the dialog with the other participants and everyone else who has commented on our progress from the start. I'm also pleased (and relieved) that I made it to the finish line.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mads. I was only jesting about being first. You were ahead of me almost from the beginning and I still like your bucket the best. It has a lot of charm. I'm just glad I finally got those doggone bindings on mine.

Today I got some nice materials for turning. It was some selected pieces from a maple tree my son cut down at his place. These turnings will be done with the wood still wet. The wood grain is pretty plain, mainly white, but I might try a little carving to make them look more interesting. I just hope my wife gives me enough time off to do them!

Today we have been getting rid of the the moss and dead grass from our lawn. Next I will be cutting down my Norwegian palm tree (really la large juniper). It got ruined by the winter weather last year. I'm hoping I can use some of that wood too. They say it turns well, but I've never had a piece big enough to try it yet. Please let me know if you have any ideas for it. I will have two tree trunks which are about 12" in diameter including the bark and about 1-1/2 meters long.

Have a nice time while in Paris. I am wondering what kind of old tool you will find while there. Give my regards to Caroline and have a safe journey.

Best wishes,

Mike


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Today I finished my bucket project. The best part of the project for me has been doing the work, learning some new skills and last but not least enjoying the dialog with the other participants and everyone else who has commented on our progress from the start. I'm also pleased (and relieved) that I made it to the finish line.
> 
> ...


I'm fighting!
http://lumberjocks.com/mafe/blog/22791


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

*-*

Hello all you bucketeer's. I got a message from MsDebbie asking that the participants in the class tag their posts showing the finished buckets* 'Antique Buckets'*. Her message was sent 10 days ago, but I've been offline for quite awhile until today. I hope your bucket projects are coming along well.

I used to be a woodworker, but my wife has (once again) promoted me to gardening assistant for the duration of the summer. So far I have power raked the lawn to remove the moss, washed the entire house, garage and gardening shed outside, washed the terraces and transplanted a bunch of bushes and a couple of trees. And that's just the beginning! Not a great future for such a lazy fellow as myself. I hope you feel sorry for me because I really need that pity right now, and I know I won't be getting it from the wife!

I also had to cut down a 12ft high juniper and I managed to save the trunk for some sneak woodworking ,he he. In fact I did manage to cut 9 boards from a 24" length of said trunk in my bandsaw today and I've got more juniper and some Sycamore logs to cut up. I've found a really easy and safe way to cut logs with my bandsaw without a special jig. I'll blog that as soon as I get the time.


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hello all you bucketeer's. I got a message from MsDebbie asking that the participants in the class tag their posts showing the finished buckets* 'Antique Buckets'*. Her message was sent 10 days ago, but I've been offline for quite awhile until today. I hope your bucket projects are coming along well.
> 
> ...


sorry to hear you have got soft soapfingers from all that washing down 
I had a little twist in the ring with all the windows myself last week , two days on the latter
with the back I have ain´t what I call fun and being scared of highs too ..LoL well you got the picture 
me balancing up high with waterbucket , brush and swiper looking like another Charlie Chapling 
yep the years highlight for the neighbours ….. do you think Silke sell tickets to it …..they all seems to
pass by with werd advices every time I´m on a latter

the rest of the garden work I wuold have treaded with the round of dealing with concrete and mortar 
the rest of the vacation

hope it will be over very soon for you so you can relax the rest of the spring and summer 

I look forward to see your timberslicing 

take care
Dennis


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hello all you bucketeer's. I got a message from MsDebbie asking that the participants in the class tag their posts showing the finished buckets* 'Antique Buckets'*. Her message was sent 10 days ago, but I've been offline for quite awhile until today. I hope your bucket projects are coming along well.
> 
> ...


your sympathy is in the mail mike

great news on the log
look forward to the blog on that

glad you are out and about
and some fresh air never hurt

keep her happy
she may make you a sardine sandwich !


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hello all you bucketeer's. I got a message from MsDebbie asking that the participants in the class tag their posts showing the finished buckets* 'Antique Buckets'*. Her message was sent 10 days ago, but I've been offline for quite awhile until today. I hope your bucket projects are coming along well.
> 
> ...


And I forgot to add that I also changed out the winter tires on my son's and my own cars. Good thing I don't have paid job as well!

*Dennis* I suppose my sad story is nothing new to most folks and especially Scandinavians like yourself. It isn't fun working on a ladder. That's why I designed and built what I call 'comfort steps' that I use while working on a ladder. They're great for folks with arthritis or other foot problems. I've been using them for several years now, and they make working on a ladder a lot easier. I'll do a little blog on them while the wife isn't looking.

*David* I hope you sent that pity in a large box air express. I'll surely have to work hard for a sardine sandwich or anything else. I've been practicing my chip carving on my rest breaks on the terrace. That keeps me sane (or insane?).


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hello all you bucketeer's. I got a message from MsDebbie asking that the participants in the class tag their posts showing the finished buckets* 'Antique Buckets'*. Her message was sent 10 days ago, but I've been offline for quite awhile until today. I hope your bucket projects are coming along well.
> 
> ...


An end to Honey-Do slavery! at least not without equal time for woodworking….or sardine sandwiches…
When you can sneak away, I'd be interested to hear about your ladder and how you manage to get boards out of a log on a bandsaw without a jig.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hello all you bucketeer's. I got a message from MsDebbie asking that the participants in the class tag their posts showing the finished buckets* 'Antique Buckets'*. Her message was sent 10 days ago, but I've been offline for quite awhile until today. I hope your bucket projects are coming along well.
> 
> ...


Since I know you, I am sure your wonderful wife is worth it!
I will mark my project.
A big smile,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hello all you bucketeer's. I got a message from MsDebbie asking that the participants in the class tag their posts showing the finished buckets* 'Antique Buckets'*. Her message was sent 10 days ago, but I've been offline for quite awhile until today. I hope your bucket projects are coming along well.
> 
> ...


I'm with you Steve! Just please don't tell my wife I said that.

So right Mads. If I hadn't married my wife I wouldn't have developed any of the numerous manual skills I have learned over the past almost 45 years. During that time I have only had to hire plumbers and electricians when needed, except the building of a couple of different houses here in Norway. I am getting a bit old and tired now, so I ask myself, when will it end? I think we all know the answer to that one!


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hello all you bucketeer's. I got a message from MsDebbie asking that the participants in the class tag their posts showing the finished buckets* 'Antique Buckets'*. Her message was sent 10 days ago, but I've been offline for quite awhile until today. I hope your bucket projects are coming along well.
> 
> ...


you could always say no

and build a little dog house 
in the backyard
wouldn't need a plumber
or electrician either


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## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hello all you bucketeer's. I got a message from MsDebbie asking that the participants in the class tag their posts showing the finished buckets* 'Antique Buckets'*. Her message was sent 10 days ago, but I've been offline for quite awhile until today. I hope your bucket projects are coming along well.
> 
> ...


Mike I am feeling your pain to. My vegetable garden is in. Its 130×40 foot. 60 beans and peas, 90 tomatoes, peppers and etc…. Spring is in the air. 
But I am still sneaking in some shop time. Saturday is prom for my 3 teenage girls and they will be tied up with hair and dresses. I think I might be able to steal some shop time.
Storms have been very bad this year. Last night we had the worst band of tornadoes in 40 years. Over 300 dead and they still can't get into some areas. I have major cleanup ahead of me from storm damage.
But its good to here from you Mike.
I would like to see your comfortable steps.
She does feed you well don't she ?


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hello all you bucketeer's. I got a message from MsDebbie asking that the participants in the class tag their posts showing the finished buckets* 'Antique Buckets'*. Her message was sent 10 days ago, but I've been offline for quite awhile until today. I hope your bucket projects are coming along well.
> 
> ...


(thanks re: tags)

and the silver lining is-we'll be seeing you back at GardenTenders


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hello all you bucketeer's. I got a message from MsDebbie asking that the participants in the class tag their posts showing the finished buckets* 'Antique Buckets'*. Her message was sent 10 days ago, but I've been offline for quite awhile until today. I hope your bucket projects are coming along well.
> 
> ...


Yes Debbie, I would like to be a little active again on GT, but I don't have much interesting to contribute. I think I blogged myself dry there last summer. I will try though, and meanwhile I can enjoy all you real gardeners results. I am just as reluctant as last year, but on duty and ready to carry out my orders when they are handed down, and with absolutely no hope for a promotion to a leadership position.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

stefang said:


> *-*
> 
> Hello all you bucketeer's. I got a message from MsDebbie asking that the participants in the class tag their posts showing the finished buckets* 'Antique Buckets'*. Her message was sent 10 days ago, but I've been offline for quite awhile until today. I hope your bucket projects are coming along well.
> 
> ...


*David* Yes, a doghouse big enough to accommodate my Lazyboy recliner!

*Dave* Very sad news about all the lives lost in tornadoes and also the many who have lost their homes. I hope they get good help to recover from this catastrophe.


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