# Where do y'all find parts for your old tools? I need a 12-20 screw specifically.



## Schoffleine

I lost one of the screws for an old Stanley Bailey 4 1/2 jack plane I was restoring. It's the one that secures the base part of the handle to the sole (not the long screw that goes through the handle, but the short one). I've found that it's a 12-20 screw, but can't seem to find anywhere that sells replacements. I don't know if there's a modern equivalent and thus no one stocks them, or that the demand is just not there so no one stocks them. So I was curious if y'all knew any good resources.


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## JustJoe

You'll have to dig in your box full of old plane parts, find someone else with such a box, or have someone with a metal lathe make a new one for you.


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## Tim457

Did you already check http://www.stjamesbaytoolco.com/stanley.html ? Has some things that could be what you want.


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## donwilwol

its the same thread as the frog screw, so if you can find a frog screw it will work. Its got a different profile, but it works and is pretty much unnoticeable. you can also buy one

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanley-Bailey-Handle-Tote-Screw-No-5-8-Tote-Toe-Screw-/171166036391?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27da4a71a7


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## bandit571

Might also check with nhplaneparts, and see if they have a couple..


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## DocBailey

http://www.stanleytoolparts.com/toescrew.html


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## JustJoe

"This Item is Currently Out Of Stock"


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## DocBailey

Joe
you need to read the copy below the image-I bought from them about a year back


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## Schoffleine

Doc: Is a toe screw what I need though? I thought the toe was on the complete opposite side of the plane? Mine doesn't even have a toe I don't think. Unfortunately the link you posted only has the reference to a place to buy all the screws for some $24 + shipping. A bit of a last resort at this point as I'd like to get just the screw if possible.

Don: So a frog screw will work in its place? Seems like St. James has a few of those. Naming this thing has been the hardest part of looking for it.

Thanks to all for the suggestions thus far. Planing with a wiggly handle is a bit of a challenge.


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## DocBailey

the toe screw is the short screw in the front of the base of the rear tote and is found on #5-#8 planes.

I don't know what's up with that pricing; in the past I have bought them for $1.00 each through that site (usually in quantities of 10 or so to make it worthwhile).


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## dwangho

Personally, I'd go to my local big box hardware store or local Ace Hardware and search throught their selection of bolts. If you already have the thread size , it is simply a matter of matching the style of head that you need. It might not be "authentic", but it would solve the "wiggly handle" issue.


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## JustJoe

You'd be searching your local Ace for a long long time then. His problem isn't the head style, it's the thread. If you know of a hardware store of any type that sells 12-20 bolts and screws then please let us know…


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## unbob

Yes, the Standard #12-24 coarse, #12-28 fine-Unified screw threads.
#12-20 is special, however they were found on very old American motorcycles, and some other old mechanical items. Usual applications would for fastening in aluminum castings or other soft metals.
Taps and dies can still be found at much elevated prices, over that of the Unified forms.
The alternative is a lathe.


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## BillWhite

Highland Woodworking has a Stanley parts kit with screws, caps, adjusting knob.
Bill


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## jonah

You an get 12-20 thread screws from McMaster Carr. Beware that they are modern zinc plated screws so they will look a little funny next to the old steel ones.


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## DocBailey

Jonah, if you can back that up with a link-that'd be great
This is not, by a long shot, the first time that a discussion of antiquated thread sizes has come up, and I don't know of any modern supplier who stocks 12-20 machine screws.


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## WayneC

I do have a 12-20 die if anyone needs knob or tote rods made. I would think the easiest route would be to get a screw from a parts plane.


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## verdesardog

a 1/4-20 might work, it's only less than .03" larger….......


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## hoosier0311

I could not find 12-20 screws in McMaster Carr or at fastenall. nothing at integrity fasteners either. I did find this, no supplier info but interesting plane information
http://www.tttg.org.au/Content/Stanley%20Planes%20and%20Screw%20Threads%20-%20Part%202.pdf

try this one, I think there is help there.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/newbie-loooking-help-confusing-tap-size-12-20-a-177033/


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## DocBailey

If all else fails …
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanley-Bailey-Handle-Tote-Screw-No-5-8-Tote-Toe-Screw-/171166036391?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27da4a71a7


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## PurpLev

if all else fails let me know and I'll try to turn you one.


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## Knothead62

Try Fastenal. A search should show if there is one locally. Any fastener distributor or industrial supply house should have them.


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## Schoffleine

>> Try Fastenal. A search should show if there is one locally. Any fastener distributor or industrial supply house should have them.

We have a Fastenal down the street and a Bolt and Screw company in town. But if these are outdated screws, I"m not sure they'd be present in a modern stock?


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## sikrap

Just buy a junk plane at a garage sale for a buck and salvage as many parts as you can. Any Stanley from a 4 1/2 thru 8 is going to have that screw. If you don't want to spend the time, PM me your address and I can probably send you one for the cost of postage.


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## LukieB

Like Dave, I have a few, and would send you one if you'll pay for shipping. Shoot me a PM if you want.


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## HapHazzard

Those screws are NOT #12. They're 7/16', so the major diameter is 0.21875, not 0.216. Worse yet, the threadform is Whitworth (55°, not the UTS standard 60°, rounded peaks). If you're having a machinist make these, give them the correct specs or give them a sample to measure. These screws are like a pre-BSW Whitworth. The combination of major diameter and thread pitch (0.05") is unique.

#12-20 taps and dies are available, but your nuts will be tight and your screws will be loose unless you get an adjustable die. With an adjustable die you can loosen the screw and thread a piece of 7/32" D2 drill rod, cut some flutes, harden and temper it. Make one tapered and one for bottoming and you're golden.


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## squazo

try metric, you may get lucky. I fixed a door like this once.


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## HokieKen

> Those screws are NOT #12. They re 7/16 , so the major diameter is 0.21875, not 0.216. Worse yet, the threadform is Whitworth (55°, not the UTS standard 60°, rounded peaks). If you re having a machinist make these, give them the correct specs or give them a sample to measure. These screws are like a pre-BSW Whitworth. The combination of major diameter and thread pitch (0.05") is unique.
> 
> #12-20 taps and dies are available, but your nuts will be tight and your screws will be loose unless you get an adjustable die. With an adjustable die you can loosen the screw and thread a piece of 7/32" D2 drill rod, cut some flutes, harden and temper it. Make one tapered and one for bottoming and you re golden.
> 
> - HapHazzard


I've heard that some planes have the 7/32 Whitworth but I haven't actually ran across any personally. I'm a Millers Falls guy personally and I know for sure they used a #12-20 and every Stanley I've owned in the past has the same. Some pre-Stanley Bailey models may have had the Whitworth form? According to Stanley Planes and Screw Threads by John Bates in Part II the 60 degree v-thread was introduced in 1864 in the US by William Sellers and by 1868 was adopted by the US government as its standard. So, when Stanley started plane production in 1870, the 60 degree thread form that would eventually become the unified standard was already the dominant thread in the US.

So in my experience, #12-20 is the thread most often encountered in Stanley planes and in the ones of other manufacturers that essentially copied the Bailey pattern plane they made. Some later makers also used #10-24 threads which were much more common by the 20th century. I can't recall who made the one plane that I've seen #10 threads for the tote and knob right off though…

And let's not even discuss the 9/32-24 threads they used in some places like the depth adjuster knobs….


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## Tony1212

I have a Stanley miter saw that is missing a lot of parts, but it had most of what I needed to make it work.

Except for one screw.

Since I wanted a user and not a show piece, I drilled it out and re-tapped it with a common size. I use it at least twice a month, now.


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## HokieKen

I have done the same on some Stanley tools that weren't valuable Tony. It's simple to chase out the threads with a 1/4-20 tap and use standard hardware. Generally you don't even have to drill it out. Just run a tap through the existing threads.


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## kimballd

Check out Michael Jenks facebook page Just Plane Fun. They sourec lots of stanley parts

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1690633051116716/

Kimball


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## HapHazzard

The plane I'm working on is a No. 5 Type 19. I believe this is one of the more common models? I needed to replace one of the two brass nuts that hold the knob and tote, so I turned a new part and used a #12-20 tap to thread it because everyone said that was the right size. It clearly doesn't fit like the old one. It is much too tight. The original part will spin freely by hand, but the one I threaded to #12-20 starts to bind after two or three turns, and while I can keep turning it with a screwdriver, it squeals all the way. If this were steel on steel or brass on brass, it would sieze. The only reason it's able to turn at all is that it's free-machining brass on steel. No only is the major diameter too small, but the steeper flank angles make the minor diameter even smaller. #12-20 is clearly not the right size. I don't care what some other authority says or what standards were current when Stanley started making planes. The fact that this is neither #12-24 nor ¼"-20 makes it clear that they were not preoccupied with following standards. And no, I'm not going to anybody's Facebook page, thank you. I'm posting this for your information, and I'm not going to continue arguing about it.


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## HokieKen

You misunderstand my intention HapHazzard. I'm certainly not trying to start any argument and I certainly believe you. I was simply offering what I've found in my experience. And I would certainly agree that Stanley was not concerned with adhering to a common standard thread size. And it doesn't surprise me that even if the threads are approximately the same size and pitch that the actual diameters vary over the years. I am curious though if the thread form on your plane is the 55 degree Whitworth or if it's a 60 degree form with a different pitch diameter than the #12-20?

Again, not trying to argue, just expand the knowledge base  Stanley thread sizes are of interest to a great many of us.


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## Woodmaster1

I have a 5 gallon bucket of Stanley plane parts from the school I taught at. Rather than throw them out being a hoarder of stuff I took them home. So if you still need it send me a PM and it's yours.


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## HapHazzard

Since they only publish tap drill sizes for standard screw sizes, I estimated the correct size to be 17, because the drill sizes for the UNC and UNF screws increase by .005", and 17 is .005 smaller than 16, which is used for UNC. (I'm drilling for a 75% thread because this is brass.)
screw tap
size drill inches
12-28 14 0.182
12-24 16 0.177
12-20 17 0.172

I estimated the tap drill size they used for the original nut by finding the biggest drill bit I could fit the shank of inside the nut. I could fit a 13 (0.185"). That's a pretty significant difference.

As for the threadform, I could show you pictures of the screws next to Whitworth and UTS thread gauges, but I can't upload pictures, and I don't use any of the services they allow images from, but if you have a set of gauges you can try it yourself. On this particular plane I've found the frog screws to have the least wear.


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## HokieKen

Thanks for that info HapHazzard! I'll measure the minor dia. on a few of my planes when I get a chance and see what size tap drill I can get in there.

I do have thread gauges (fishtails) for both UN and Whitworth thread forms and the threads on my Millers Falls planes are definitely 60 degree V threads. I'll pull out some Stanley planes when I get time and see if I can find any of those that have a 55 deg. form.


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## gtrgeo

Not to hijack but since there is talk about threads Stanley used. Does anyone know the correct thread for the adjustment rod on a Stanley 78? 
I picked up this plane years ago at a garage sale for change and have recently found a fence. I figured I could pick up a 1/4" steel rod and run a die on it for threads. I assumed it was 1/4'-20 but found out differently. Thankfully the plane had the depth fence and nicker in tact.

Thanks,
George


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## HapHazzard

> Not to hijack but since there is talk about threads Stanley used. Does anyone know the correct thread for the adjustment rod on a Stanley 78?
> I picked up this plane years ago at a garage sale for change and have recently found a fence. I figured I could pick up a 1/4" steel rod and run a die on it for threads. I assumed it was 1/4 -20 but found out differently. Thankfully the plane had the depth fence and nicker in tact.


 You're not hijacking. Finding parts for Stanley planes is right on topic.
Are you talking about the two rods the plane slides in and out on?


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## HokieKen

Those threads are 1/4-24 on the 78. I just turned one for a guy last week.


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## Ocelot

You can buy that screw for $14 from New Hampsire Plane Parts.

That's a lot for a screw, but how much screwing around can you save by just buying one?


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## drsurfrat

I have been trying to get a bunch together, but there is nowhere on LJ to put a reference file.
This is what I have so far, there may be errors, but unless there is a question mark, data is from a measured screw.
It is many pages, so scroll down for the Stanley No. you are interested in.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n5n2sxd21swll3d/Stanley%20Screw%20Sizes.pdf?dl=0

(somebody let me know if this link is available to you)


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## HapHazzard

I made a toe screw for a Buck Bros. plane I refurbished, not because I needed to, but just because the stock one was so ugly, but it was beautiful compared to that thing. You'd think if you were charging that much for a screw you'd at least run a wire brush over it. Yikes!

Anyway, that's not what I need for the Stanley. This is what I need:










(I finally figured out how to upload images.)


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## HapHazzard

> I have been trying to get a bunch together, but there is nowhere on LJ to put a reference file.
> This is what I have so far, there may be errors, but unless there is a question mark, data is from a measured screw.
> It is many pages, so scroll down for the Stanley No. you are interested in.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/n5n2sxd21swll3d/Stanley%20Screw%20Sizes.pdf?dl=0
> 
> (somebody let me know if this link is available to you)
> 
> - drsurfrat


The link works, but it's way too small to read-even with my reading glasses on, and I don't see any way to magnify it.


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## MrUnix

> The link works, but it s way too small to read-even with my reading glasses on, and I don t see any way to magnify it.
> - HapHazzard


It's a PDF, so you should be able to scale it as large as you like.
(download it if needed)

Cheers,
Brad


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## MikeB_UK

> I have been trying to get a bunch together, but there is nowhere on LJ to put a reference file.
> This is what I have so far, there may be errors, but unless there is a question mark, data is from a measured screw.
> It is many pages, so scroll down for the Stanley No. you are interested in.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/n5n2sxd21swll3d/Stanley%20Screw%20Sizes.pdf?dl=0
> 
> (somebody let me know if this link is available to you)
> 
> - drsurfrat
> 
> The link works, but it s way too small to read-even with my reading glasses on, and I don t see any way to magnify it.
> 
> - HapHazzard


It's a pdf in dropbox, you can download it - or if you're on something with a touch screen whatever it opened with is pretty likely to pinch-zoom.

Given your tagline xdg-open
And on that note
Programming made the impossible possible. You can have a null object and a constant variable.


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## drsurfrat

Ooo, good one.

And if any of you have screw data for missing cells or entire planes, let me know.


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## Ocelot

Ah. That one.

You know, just for kicks, I took the tap that Kenny helped us all get and tried the fit in the rod-mounting hole in one of my planes - expecting it to fit more or less, especially since it is not a bottom tap… and it didn't really fit. I figured I ddn't know what I was doing and since I ddn't need to tap anything at that moment just let it slide.

Maybe…

thangs are not what we had supposed.

Oh, and I had been calling that thing a *nut* and not a screw, which I why I thought you were talking about the other one.

-Paul


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## HapHazzard

> It s a PDF, so you should be able to scale it as large as you like.


I should, but it's in some kind of fancy viewer that only lets me scroll and squint.


> (download it if needed)


Yeah, that's the thing. I'd rarther not download them to see what's worth downloading. There's a lot of stuff there.


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## HapHazzard

> You know, just for kicks, I took the tap that Kenny helped us all get and tried the fit in the rod-mounting hole in one of my planes - expecting it to fit more or less, especially since it is not a bottom tap… and it didn t really fit. I figured I ddn t know what I was doing and since I ddn t need to tap anything at that moment just let it slide.


It should have the size etched on it. If it's #12-20, that's what everyone has been calling the right one, but I'm calling BS. 
It should fit in the holes, at least mine does; it's just very loose. You should be able to "chase" the threads with it, but it doesn't even come close.


> Maybe…
> 
> thangs are not what we had supposed.


That's what I've been saying.


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## HokieKen

> Those threads are 1/4-24 on the 78. I just turned one for a guy last week.
> 
> - HokieKen


Correction. I just double checked and my Millers Falls as well as my buddy's Stanley both have 1/4-20 threads for the fence rod. Maybe Stanley changed threads somewhere along the line?


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## HapHazzard

> Maybe Stanley changed threads somewhere along the line?


It wouldn't have occurred to them to change those other threads at some point.

George, were you missing one rod or both? If you have one, we can probably get the thread size from it, assuming they didn't change threads mid-plane.


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## bandit571

Hmmm…









Bolts…

Starting to sound just like one of those SMC Sharpening threads….


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## gtrgeo

My plane is like the one in the back of your picture. It only has the one rod. And yes, I am in need of the one rod that comes out of the side that the fence slides on


> Not to hijack but since there is talk about threads Stanley used. Does anyone know the correct thread for the adjustment rod on a Stanley 78?
> I picked up this plane years ago at a garage sale for change and have recently found a fence. I figured I could pick up a 1/4" steel rod and run a die on it for threads. I assumed it was 1/4 -20 but found out differently. Thankfully the plane had the depth fence and nicker in tact.
> Are you talking about the two rods the plane slides in and out on?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You re not hijacking. Finding parts for Stanley planes is right on topic.
> 
> - HapHazzard


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## gtrgeo

Interesting. When I try a 1/4-20 it will start but binds up after a few rotations. I figured the pitch was close enough to let the 1/4-20 start. Maybe I should try to run a tap in the hole with light pressure to clean up the threads.

Thanks,

George


> Those threads are 1/4-24 on the 78. I just turned one for a guy last week.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> Correction. I just double checked and my Millers Falls as well as my buddy's Stanley both have 1/4-20 threads for the fence rod. Maybe Stanley changed threads somewhere along the line?
> 
> - HokieKen


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## HapHazzard

> My plane is like the one in the back of your picture. It only has the one rod. And yes, I am in need of the one rod that comes out of the side that the fence slides on


If it's ¼", it should be either 20 or 28 tpi, if it's standard. (20 tpi is INC; 28 is UNF.) You could buy screws in both those sizes, if you don't have any lying around, and see if one or the other fits. If neither one does, it may well be 24 tpi, as Kenny suggested. You could confirm this by putting a standard #12-24 (UNC) screw in the hole and using it as a thread gauge-or you could use a thread gauge, but it has to be the type that has blades thin enough to measure female threads. Once you know what the thread size is, either Kenny or I could probably make one for you. Kenny would be best, if he has time for it, since he's done it before. I have plenty of time, but I'd need to know all the specs, as I've never seen one of these planes before.


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## gtrgeo

Thanks. I will have to see if I can pick up a 1/4-28 and a 12-24 at the ace hardware and give those a try.



> My plane is like the one in the back of your picture. It only has the one rod. And yes, I am in need of the one rod that comes out of the side that the fence slides on
> 
> If it s ¼", it should be either 20 or 28 tpi, if it s standard. (20 tpi is INC; 28 is UNF.) You could buy screws in both those sizes, if you don t have any lying around, and see if one or the other fits. If neither one does, it may well be 24 tpi, as Kenny suggested. You could confirm this by putting a standard #12-24 (UNC) screw in the hole and using it as a thread gauge-or you could use a thread gauge, but it has to be the type that has blades thin enough to measure female threads. Once you know what the thread size is, either Kenny or I could probably make one for you. Kenny would be best, if he has time for it, since he s done it before. I have plenty of time, but I d need to know all the specs, as I ve never seen one of these planes before.
> 
> - HapHazzard


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## HokieKen

This is a picture of the 78 with the rod I made last week and it has a 1/4-20 thread and he said it was a perfect fit. 









I'd try running a tap in the threads you have and see if you can clean them up. If you hit enough resistance to where it's cutting new threads, you'll feel it. I can definitely make you a rod if you need one but you'll have to verify the thread size first. Shoot me a PM if you need one made.


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## drsurfrat

Ok, even though LJ doesn't host tables or viewable reference files, I tried to make a "table" of Stanley thread sizes. It all fit in the OP, and I will revise and add to it if you give me (measured) data.

Stanley Screw Sizes Reference
https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/317107

Maybe it can live as a local reference, who knows. And if you don't like it, just don't read it.


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## HokieKen

I put my foot in my mouth earlier. The rod I made with 1/4-20 threads for the plane in my previous post was a Craftsman (Sargent made probably?) and not a Stanley. According to Mike's new thread, it appears the threads on that rod are 1/4-24.


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## bandit571

I do know that Stanley threaded rod for th #78 will NOT fit in a Sargent/Craftsman #79 nor any other bolts between the 2…


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## gtrgeo

So, went ahead and checked the threads in my 78 with what I had in hand. I first tried a 1/4-20 tap just using my fingers and found that the tap went in fairly easy just cleaning up the threads. This allowed me to run a 1/-20 bolt in further than I had previously. Is it possible that Stanley changed the threads on later production? Or, maybe someone had previously tapped to 1/4-20? I am uncertain of the year this plane was made but I believe it to be newer based on some of the pictures I see online.



















Thanks,
George


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## drsurfrat

Id guess that it was retapped, just a guess. Also, that rod is supposed to go in either side, check that they match each other.


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## gtrgeo

Wow, in all the times I have looked at that plane I have never caught that there was a threaded hole on the other side. I have never seen one set up with the fence on the right. The threads in that hole are definitely finer than 1/4-20. I can barely get a 1/4-20 bolt to start. Other than some light rust they look to be in better shape than the hole on the left. This makes me believe someone has either forced a 1/4-20 bolt in there or ran a tap through it. Now the question becomes, can a rod with the correct threads still be installed or am I forced to use 1/4-20?

Thanks,

George


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## HapHazzard

Did you check to see if the ¼"-20 bolt would get tight? The most likely reason it woud fit if it was originally ¼"-24 or ¼"-28 would be that the threads are stripped, but in that case the ¼"-20 bolt would never really get tight. The fix would be to install a helicoil, but if the other hole is ¼"-24, I doubt there would be a thread repair kit for that size. The standards are ¼"-20 (UNC), ¼"-28 (UNF) and ¼"-32 (UNEF), so 24 tpi is not standard.

If the ¼"-20 bolt does get tight, the best solution might be just to get two rods made, but you'll have to accurately measure both threads.


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## gtrgeo

Yes, a 1/4-20 bolt will run in about 3/4" on the left side and tighten up. The threads on the right side look to be in good shape save some light rust. I can still try to pick up a 12-24 screw at the hardware store to check the pitch. I am wondering how much I would use the fence on the right as you will not have a depth stop or nicker when used that way.

Thanks,

George


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## Foghorn

> Ok, even though LJ doesn t host tables or viewable reference files, I tried to make a "table" of Stanley thread sizes. It all fit in the OP, and I will revise and add to it if you give me (measured) data.
> 
> Stanley Screw Sizes Reference
> https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/317107
> 
> Maybe it can live as a local reference, who knows. And if you don t like it, just don t read it.
> 
> - drsurfrat


You just need to save any tables as a .jpg file and then post it as a picture. The snipping tool works well for that.


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## drsurfrat

No, that doesn't work. It reduces images to an unviewable size…
That, and I don't look forward to a new jpg upload for every change.


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