# Help with buying a lathe



## BeginnerBowlBill (Apr 5, 2017)

Hi wood buddys,

I have a ranch with a lot of dead Pecan wood and I thought I'd try my hand at lathing bowls and giving to my friends. With that said, I started looking for the proper lathe - and here's where I ask for your help.

I've barely started my research and determined I'm tired of researching. I just want to go out and buy it so I can start working. I got confused looking at Midi and mini lathes and don't understand any of the center-to-? measurements, or anything like that. I guess I'm getting too old to try and figure it all out so I ask for your help.

I'll be turning wood bowls maybe up to 18 inches or so in diameter. I just want a cheap, but decent lathe and the right attachments. Could someone please just give a me the name of a lathe that would do the trick before I run down to harbor freight tools and buy the wrong item?  Also, could you give me the additional attachments, accessories and tools I will need.

Thanks in advance for all your great input. I really do appreciate your sharing your knowledge of this subject. Please hurry, I'm itchin to lathe.

Bill


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

What is your budget?


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## gargey (Apr 11, 2016)

This guy's clearly got alterior motives. Buffalo Bill etc.


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## doubleDD (Oct 21, 2012)

I believe the biggest lathe HF sells is only for 12'' turning. If your looking to turn up to 18'' it's not going to be cheap.
You may have to look into something used.


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## tomd (Jan 29, 2008)

A lathe is the cheap part.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

You probably won't find a mini or midi lathe that can handle an 18" bowl. A bowl blank that large needs a lathe with some mass to avoid jumping all over the place. The first number listed on a lathe is usually the largest diameter it can turn but in practice, the maximum it can handle is really an inch or two smaller because you usually need room to slide the tool rest base underneath the bowl blank. So if bowls that large are really your goal, you will need a fairly large lathe to handle that so it's going to cost quite a bit more than a midi lathe.

BTW, the second number listed is usually the longest piece it can handle but that is mostly relevant to spindle turning.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

To turn 18" diameter bowl you need a lathe with at least 20 to 24 inch swing! Simple measure from top of lathe bed or ways to center of lathe spindle will determine the swing of a lathe. If buy a lathe with 18" swing an 18" diameter bowl will not clear the lathe bed or tool rest base (banjo).

There are no cheap but decent lathes with enough swing for you buy unless find something used and in need of repairs.

When you process logs for tuning there is a lot of wasted wood. A 18" diameter log may only yield 12 to 16" finish bowl turning on a lathe depending on design.


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## Carloz (Oct 12, 2016)

Are you sure you want to do it ? Wood turning is a tremendous waster or wood with not much appreciated results. 
Make a simple finger joint box from your pecans and people well ooh and aah over it. Make an intricate bowl and nobody will even notice.


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

BeginnerBill, if you going to give the bowls to friends, I certainly hope you have a LOT of friends to justify the cost of just the lathe alone. The other tools are what is expensive.

If I didn't already have a Powermatic lathe, I would still say the same thing about them as Powermatic has always made quality machines for the woodworking industry for over 70 years, possibly longer than that. Therefore, my observations are below.

Powermatic 3520 is a good lathe. The 35 in the designation means it is 35" between the headstock and tailstock without the attachments, I believe. You will loose some length when installing the live center and chuck. If you think spindles might be in your future, that's food for thought.

The 20 designation indicates the distance (swing) from the center of the spindle to the ways. Powermatic is actually 20 1/4"", thus giving the owners a bonus with the extra swing. For turning bowls, you can get by with turning maximum OD if you use the tool rest properly. To get the banjo from one end of the piece if maxed on the OD, just remove either faceplate or chuck, and slide the banjo to where it's needed. Replace the faceplate or chuck back on the spindle and continue turning. The only height problem will be trying to turn a large diameter long log that the banjo can't get under.

It's heavy, about 700+pounds. That is an absolute must for large blanks.

I have no other information to give on other lathes other than they all will get you there in the end.

Wildwood is right about the lose of size when turning. I've maxed my blanks to just at 19 1/2", and might end up with a 16" form. There are a lot of variables to consider when trying to get diameter. Just don't think because you have a piece of wood 18" OD, you'll get a bowl that OD. Won't happen.

For the size blanks you are expecting to turn, I hope you have some help in mounting them between centers. As I'm sure you are already aware of, wood that large is heavy. To my knowledge there isn't anything on the market to assist in mounting blanks that large unless you have a bulky engine lift or a hoist of some sort.

Please do not think I'm trying to discourage you in any way. There is a lot to learn and you have to stick with getting that knowledge. Don't quit like you did with the research you started. Continue with it, and since you've already gotten some information from this site, you might have a better understanding of some of your concerns. Hope this helps and feel free to ask for help when needed.

Where are you located? You might find a turning club nearby if you are near a large city. Most club members are chomping at the bit to help …....... Jerry (In Tucson)


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## BeginnerBowlBill (Apr 5, 2017)

Thanks guys for all the input. Ok, I have more input… I measured the diameter of the wood I'd most like be using and it's only about 12"-13". Can I get a lathe cheaper than 1000? Also, what about the lathes that the head spins around? Isn't that so you can turn bigger bowls?

I don't care about how much wood I waste - I have tons of dead pecan wood rotting and I'd just like to make something nice with it. I've been cutting them out by hand and it's a lot of work. I'd like to just throw it on a lathe and turn in. Any cheaper ideas? The HF lathe has a swivel head, will that work?

Thanks again for all your input.


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## jonnybrophy (Sep 22, 2016)

Do you know what a Bowl lathe is? Would probably be more useful for you if you want to turn large items(platters, bowls etc)
Unfortunately, spindle turning and such is pretty difficult with a bowl lathe.
Also, Have you ever turned before? If not, id recommend a carbide tool set rather than traditional(much less in terms of sharpening/ specialty profiles)
Turning is super fun and can produce awesome results, but is SUPER dangerous
Watch some youtube videos about catches and how to avoid them. Also, not the wood grain type(side, long, end, crotch etc) this is what causes those big blow outs heard about in the lathe horror stories.
Have fun and Good luck!


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Yes the HF 34706 lathe would work well for your application. Here is a review. I'm not a fan of carbide tools - they have their place (like a small hollowing tip) but just don't cut that well in my experience. . HF does not have bowl gouges. Look at PSI tools Benjamin's Best or Hurricane tools. You will need a sharpening system - Wolverine vari grind jig and an 8" 1/2 speed grinder. To hold the work, the cheap route is a tap to match the spindle threads, 1" x 8 tpi, to tap glue blocks to mount the bowls on. If you want a chuck, PSI Barracuda2. While at HF pick up a clear safety face shield.

My favorite expert for bowl turning - tool use, methods, etc - is Lyle Jamieson - has a lot of youtube videos. Good luck, be careful.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

OSU55 has given some good advice EXCEPT the face shield from HF. Get a good shield. Many of us have the UVEX shield. It is the best one I've ever used. Give it a thought.
Bill


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## MikeUT (Sep 5, 2014)

I have a Jet 12-36 and from what I understand the HF lathe's design is based on the 12-36. The headstock does swing to allow larger turnings. The largest thing I've turned was a 16" segmented platter. I don't think I would attempt to turn a solid piece much larger than 12" to 14" on my lathe. Its not that it can't technically be done, but that it will run right out of your garage if it doesn't shake itself to pieces on the way out. Its a pretty light machine and when you mount an unbalanced blank it goes crazy. I assume that a HF lathe would be even worse than a Jet.

If I were you, I would cruise your local Craigslist for a few weeks and see if you see anything good come up. If you are open to waiting you could get a lot more bang for your buck.

+1 on OSU55's opinion on traditional tools vs carbide tools. I got a few of each when I first started turning. At first I tended to reach for the carbide tools first because they are more forgiving. But after a month or two I started using the regular tools more and more. I find a bowl/spindle gouge to be more effective. Now I rarely use the carbide tools.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

For turning bowls, I would definitely get some bowl gouges (+1 on the Hercules and Benjamins Best recommendations for a good quality but more affordable beginner tool) and never, ever use spindle tools on bowls-very dangerous. The carbide tools are easy to learn so make it easier to jump right in and don't require you to learn how to sharpen but generally don't leave as smooth a finish as a well sharpened bowl gouge so usually require much more sanding when you reach the final shape. You also need to get a good chuck or research how to use a face plate to mount your bowl blanks on the lathe. Turning can be a black hole so prices some of the accessories that you need (want) to make sure that you can keep the cost within budget.

BTW, you can minimize the problems with your lathe dancing around your shop on large bowls by cutting your bowl blanks mostly round before you start. A band saw is probably the easiest way to do that, though there are tricks for doing that with a chain saw that might be good enough. Start turning with a very low speed until you get it balanced and you can maximize the size you can turn on a smaller lathe. I would start with smaller bowls anyway until you get the hang of it.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> ...EXCEPT the face shield from HF. Get a good shield.
> 
> - Bill White


+1 
I'm using another brand, can't remember which one, and it's good but the Uvex looks better so I might upgrade. I have one of the crappy HF shields, they were like $1 when I bought mine years ago. The fit is poor and they are flimsy, pretty sure they are made from recycled cottage cheese cartons.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

HF has some different face shields. I'll just say #46526, the one I have, works very well for me. It's as sturdy as others I've looked at, fits comfortable, has room for a respirator underneath, and deflected a lot of bark and other debris coming off the lathe. Heck of a deal at $15 IMO.


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## xunil76 (Feb 16, 2017)

another thing you can do to help keep a lighter lathe from jumping around when trying to turn blanks that are out of round is to secure the stand's legs to the floor. the downside to that, though, is that the lathe can no longer easily be moved around if you want to change your shop layout, especially if your floor is concrete and you use concrete anchors. most often, a custom-built lathe stand with sandbags or other weights placed in a box/shelf below the lathe will keep it from jumping around a lot, but will still allow you to move the whole thing around relatively easily.


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## BeginnerBowlBill (Apr 5, 2017)

Thanks guys!!!!! But what are carbide tools?


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Piece of steel tube with a wood handle on one end and a carbide cutter on the other. You can make one for around $15. I use azcarbide.com for cutters.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

> Thanks guys!!!!! But what are carbide tools?
> 
> - BeginnerBowlBill


Here  are some examples.


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## BeginnerBowlBill (Apr 5, 2017)

I see they're like the regular tools but what is the difference? Are they harder metal so you don't have to sharpen them as much?
Also, can anyone show me a pic of a way I can mount the block to the spindle? If I get a plate of metal and drill holes, can I mount it to the chuck and just attach it to the block with screws?

Also, I'd like to go real slow… whats the slowest I can turn the wood and work the bowl? 60 RPMs? 1 a second?


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Carbide is very hard and wear resistant so they last a lot longer than HSS tools. But they are scrapers, without a burr, so they don't cut as smoothly and need more sanding. They are much, much, easier to use.

Captain Eddie will use 800 words when 50 would suffice but the guy really knows turning and teaches things I haven't seen elsewhere. He has a beginner series and you should check it out. 





Slow is not all it's cracked up to be. There is an ideal speed for every piece of wood. People have made charts and come up with formulas but it's arbitrary and you don't need any of that. For spindles I turn it up until it vibrates and then keep going until it smooths out. On bowl blanks I turn it up until it shakes the lathe stand and then slow down. I'm a speed demon, I drive fast and my lathe spins fast and faster is better (except when applying finish


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

A simple definition of carbide for cutting: a very hard mixture of sintered (powdered metal) carbides of various heavy metals, especially tungsten carbide, used for cutting edges and dies. More for ferrous metal cutting. For woodturners the advantage is no sharpening and need less knowledge to use, the disadvantage is they aren't as sharp as HSS, cut slower, and only scrape. The bars/handles are fairly easy to make, and Capn Eddie is a good source of info and cutters.

Speed charts are based on cut type - roughing or finishing - and the surface speed of the wood, determined by the lathe rpm's and diameter of the wood. They are very good guidelines for the beginner.

Here is a primer on faceplates. If the wood piece will fit between centers, only a spur drive is needed to rough the outside and create either a flat for a glue block or a tenon for a chuck (or use a glue block in a chuck). Most lathes come with a faceplate. They can be purchased and some make their own. Also a block of wood can be tapped to fit the spindle and then glued to the work. I have a lathe with a pivoting headstock and turn pieces that won't clear the lathe bed rails, so I'll use a faceplate to hold the work to rough the outside and usually make a tenon for the chuck to grip. The work is then turned around and mounted on the spindle to hollow the middle out.


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

BeginnerBowlBill, check out this thread in the link below. . The link is on a project I did awhile back, but all you need is to see the picture of the Chuck Plate I invented. It MUST be used between centers only, and in a Chuck, hence the name, Chuck Plate. It's used for rough turning and for making tenons or recesses only. It eliminates the need to have a bottle of screws handy, or even a roll of double sided tape. The surface of the wood does not need to be flat, as one of the pictures show. The last picture, the top of the form is where the Chuck Plate contacted the wood to keep it between centers while I formed the tenon at the tailstock end. I have never lost a piece in the seven years since it was invented.

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/64244 ............. You do not have to view the video linked in the thread as it's boring. hehehe….......... Jerry (in Tucson)


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## BeginnerBowlBill (Apr 5, 2017)

Rick, OSU, Nubs, thank you very much. This info helps me so much! Nubs, that's a great chuck plate - how ingenious. I need one that will work will when I have the head rotated so it's not between centers. In my head I was thinking I would just screw in a lot of screws into the block from a plate that somehow mounts to the spindle, and turn it real slow until the outside is smaller and in-round. Then I'd rotate the head back to center (between spindles) and spin it faster as I take the inside of the bowl out. Or maybe just leave the head rotated and lathe the inner bowl with head rotated. At the end then I'd just lathe off the part of the log at the base that had the bolts in them until it was almost all the way through, and cut it with off with a band saw or chain saw then sand it. Would that work?

Also, when the head is rotated, is there a place to attach the banjo so I can rest the scraper? Will the banjo and rest and all that stuff come with the lathe? Man, sorry I don't know the right words yet. I had to look up tenon. I think I know what it is now. Thanks again for your patience and your answers.


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

When you asked what carbide was, I knew you were a real beginner. So, here are some answers to comment 25. Turn or turning, remove or removing, and hogging off or hogging out would be a better terms to use instead of "lathe off, lathe, or latheing. Lathe is a Machine, not the act. I could be wrong, but 99% of wood turners will use "turning' for what we do.

I don't use faceplates as I am the inventor of the Chuck Plate and it has met all my turning needs since August, 2010. I also have several sized chucks with different jaws to compensate for larger stuff. So, my knowledge of face plates is limited.

Mount whatever you are going to mount onto the face plate with good screws. # 14 sheet metal or larger screws even up to 1/2" if you really need them, and compensate for the depth of your piece. You wouldn't want to hog out a bowl only to find the screws sticking out the bottom, plus the damage that they do to tools.

The face plate should be mounted into face grain. Do not mount your screws into end grain. I would think if you mounted something 1 foot long from the face of the face plate, it might fail if you didn't have tail stock support.

If the head stock rotates off ways, and the piece is secure, the banjo and rest should be designed to stay on the ways, and reach out to the piece you're turning.

By attaching whatever you're going to turn on a swivel head stock, and swinging the head stock off ways is absolutely fine and dandy. When you rough it down to a good clean diameter of your choice and you can get it back over the bed ways, by all means, do it and bring up the tail stock for support until it gets in your way. Pull it out of the way, finish the inside, and the work out how you want to remove the attach point.

I did a repair on a bowl that was turned in Costa Rico back in the 70's. The turner used a face plate and 3 screws. Apparently the wood was flat where it mated to the FP. He screwed to the FP, and turned the whole thing . When he was done, he removed the bowl from the FP, and puttied the 3 holes. Back in those days, that's all the technology we had. I don't think there was any decent bowl gouges back then.

Hope this makes sense….. Jerry (in Tucson)


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## BeginnerBowlBill (Apr 5, 2017)

Thanks Jerry,
I was planning on screwwing many long screw into the end grain… maybe at an angle. I hope it's not too dangerous.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

BeginnerBowlBill-Forget about trying to use a "plate of metal" and get yourself a proper faceplate that mounts to your lathe's spindle, then use #12 sheet metal screws to attach the wood to the faceplate.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> BeginnerBowlBill-Forget about trying to use a "plate of metal" and get yourself a proper faceplate that mounts to your lathe s spindle, then use #12 sheet metal screws to attach the wood to the faceplate.
> - TheDane


Or get a thread tap and make your own faceplate/glue blocks - no screws needed 

Cheers,
Brad


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

BBB, screwing in at an angle would certainly be better than straight in, but after one or two forms from end grain, you'll be switching to face grain. It's sooo much easier than end grain, you'll be wondering why you didn't heed the advice you got here.

Remember this too, using long screws will take it's toll when you hit them. A lot of screws protruding at least 3/4" from the face of the face plate into face grain wood does wonders. If you plan it right and have measuring tools, you can clear the screws if your blank is about 1" longer than you need. ......... Jerry (in Tucson)


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

I think you should walk before trying to run. Turn some spindles, maybe some small bowls or cups. My first 'bowl like' object was a cup and ball toy that I made in high school for a Mexican crafts thing for extra credit (I needed it, my Spanish was terrible). My first actual bowls were about 6-8" across and still I haven't turned any that are large but I'm never going to be a bowl turner as I don't really enjoy it very much. I prefer spindle turning. But cut your teeth on some beginner projects before trying to turn 18" bowls. Trust me, turning is a learned skill, not something you will master in a day, a week, or a year.


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## BeginnerBowlBill (Apr 5, 2017)

I think I'd trust bolts more than glue, right.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Wood is basically a bunch of tube-like structures glued together. Yellow wood glue is much stronger than the lignin which holds wood together naturally so wood glued together is very strong.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Here is info on cutting bowl blanks. The whole turning thing is confusing for the uninitiated - theres a whole new set of words and definitions to use, and sometimes multiple words mean the same thing - ex: lathe bed, ways, rails all really mean the same thing. Its not difficult, but does require obtaining new knowledge and skills.


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## Hockey (Apr 9, 2017)

Thanks for the link, OSU55. I am just recently getting into turning bowls (cylindrical boxes too) from some maple that a neighbor cut down. The link was very helpful.


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## BeginnerBowlBill (Apr 5, 2017)

Great link, but he ended have way through…what next? Does he wrap in in anchorseal? For how long?


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> For how long?
> - BeginnerBowlBill


You leave it on until you turn it. The reason behind sealing the end grain is to slow moisture loss. Wood cracks or checks because it loses moisture out of the end grain faster than face grain. The end grain shrinks, the center doesn't, something gives and a crack forms.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

Wax, paint, speciality sealers…. it all works. I just use old latex paint:










Cheers,
Brad


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Me too. I have a can of ancient oil base that I glob on the ends. It works okay. I've never tried anything else so I can't compare it to anything.


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## BeginnerBowlBill (Apr 5, 2017)

The reason I want to to turn end grain is because I like to fill the cracks with blue glue to look like a river table (inlay bowl) and you cant get cracks that go up the side with face grain. Looks cool but it's a lot of work. I'll try and get a pic of the one I'm working on now. I'm doing them by hand now with an angle grinder and sander.


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