# Scary Sharp and flat surfaces



## luckysawdust (Sep 16, 2011)

Before posting, I tried to go back and see if another post had already addressed this, and didn't find one, so here goes.

I'm a recent college grad, and am just beginning to assemble the pieces for my own future woodworking shop. One of the first things I'm learning is that sharpening is a necessary, even critical skill. Given my budgetary constraints, I have opted to go with the "Scary Sharp" system of sharpening, at least for now.

I've already got several different grits of sand-paper that are usable. At this point, I am looking for 1) an inexpensive honing guide, and 2) a flat enough surface on which to mount the sand-paper. Some of the write-ups I have seen for scary sharp recommend the "flattest surface you can find"-either float glass, or a granite 'reference plate.'

My question is, how 'flat' does the surface need to be? Are granite scraps from a granite-reseller good enough? (ones that would be used for kitchen counter-tops? Could I also use those scraps as a surface on which to lap the sole-plates of hand-planes?

Also, I have seen people recommending that, at least for sharpening chisels, that you don't push the chisel against the paper, but 'pull' it back across. Opinions either way? Is 'pulling' the chisel still necessary if you are working with a honing guide?

Here's the stone I got for free.










Is this good enough to work with? At least good enough to start out with? Would I ruin something by using it as a flat surface?


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I think you'll do well with that piece of granite. The slabs are very flat for counter tops, I have to think that the piece you have is that flat. I've used the top of my tablesaw and some 1/4" glass I got from Lee Valley, both worked good, but I've only done planes on the TS (more room). As for chisels, when I was doing mine this way, I honed it back and forth with the guide I have. It would be fairly awkward to just hone it on one direction I would think. When using a wet grinder, Tormek says it doesn't make any difference which way the cutting edge is moved against the abrasive surface.


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## GregD (Oct 24, 2009)

Check it with a good straight edge. The more expensive 10" drafting triangles at office supply stores are, in my experience, not so expensive and have straight edges and accurate angles. That should be large enough to evaluate that block of granite.

If you didn't get lucky with that piece, Woodcraft sells a flat granite block that isn't too expensive when it goes on sale. If that isn't in the budget then maybe a small torsion box out of MDF. Many people seem to think MDF is flat, but I think it is rather floppy and needs to be backed up by a more rigid support structure.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Like Greg said you can use MDF or a piece of glass or your table saw top, I would guess your granite will be flat enough but it won't hurt to check it with a straight edge. As to a honing guide, I used scary sharp for years just holding the angle with out a guide.
You can make a honing guide here are a couple I found just by searching "shop made honing guide" images on google.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

Sharpening your own is wise for two reasons,
First , financial self defense. If you stay busy in shop and keep tools sharp, you'll be sharpening a lot.

Second, I do believe you get to know your tools better. Therefore it will make you a better craftsman.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Ive found that pulling produces a better edge but ive only done it on 2 irons so the jury is still out in reality. 3M "77" is a good adhesive to use. I used the wrong adhesive on some sandpaper my firts time out and it was a nightmare to get off.

The backsplash cut offs are nice and long to the point where you can get more than one grit on it. That would be my recomendation as well as sharpening in batches.


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## luckysawdust (Sep 16, 2011)

Sounds like I'll be alright using the granite slab, at least for now (as long as its flat) -I'll have to be creative with attaching sand-paper to it, given the limited amount of 'real estate.' Would water be enough to keep the sand-paper flat and attached?

I'd considered making my own honing guide-maybe that is the best way to go, for now?

In any case, I'm going to try this set-up out, and sharpen the best I can by hand, and may consider a honing guide if I really feel that I need/prefer it.

Thanks guys!

- "Lucky"


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Lucky
The whole idea behind scary sharp is not to use water. You can buy some spray on adhesive or buy some pre glued sand paper PSA sand paper ,the spray would cost the least and should last a long time. If your going to free hand sharpening then you need to practise putting even pressure along the front edge of the chisel ,if you keep looking at the edge you can tell where you need to change the pressure on the front edge. It takes practice but you can do a good job with some practice. It will be easier with some kind of guide.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

Pick up a cheap plastic protractor in a dollar store so you can get a reference for the proper angles to do your blades and chisels. Don't be fooled into thinking you need a thousand bucks worth of tormek jigs and wheels and such to get a sharp edge. A belt sander to take metal past nicks (go slow so you don't take the temper out of the steel), the sandpaper on a flat surface and maybe some red rouge (not really needed) and you'll be making shavings you can see light though.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

pulling a blade on a sharpening surface leaves burrs on the cutting edge by drawing them out there. If you push the blade it pushes the burrs back away from the cutting edge and you take them off. Those edges tend to have the sharp feel longer. Watch a professional sharpen a knife and shee when he applies the pressure. always like he is cutting.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

I use a granite sink cut-out from our local granite fabricator. Plenty flat for what ya want. Price? FREE! 
wet or dry (black) sandpaper.
Be sure to flatten the back of the cutting edge too. Work the bevel, touch up the back again to remove the burr, hone on a leather strop with green compound. Done.
Bill


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## ajosephg (Aug 25, 2008)

I use a 12×12 granite tile purchased from Lowes.


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## luckysawdust (Sep 16, 2011)

Jim,

Thanks for the tip - i guess you're right! If I can get by without water, maybe that's for the best?

Also, I have spray adhesive-its 3M "General Purpose 45", not the "77" stuff I've had recommended to me. Is the "general purpose" adhesive unsuitable for the task? My wife says she'll let me use some nail-polish remover to get the adhesive off the stone, so I'm covered there.

- "Lucky"


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

You can also go to a craft store or art supply store and buy a gallon of rubber cement thinner and a small squirt can to remove the paper (just lift a scorner and start squirting as you pull up) and clean that adhesive.


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## DaleM (Feb 18, 2009)

Lucky, you don't really even need to stick the paper down with anything, either glue or water. I just lay the piece of paper down and hold it with one hand while sharpening the tool with the other. I did glue mine down, but found it totally unnecessary so I I don't do it anymore. When using a sharpening stone, whether oil or water stone, I draw the blade towards the cutting edge, but when using sandpaper, I draw away from the edge. I found that drawing towards the edge on sandpaper quickly removed the grit and the sandpaper would be almost worthless in a big hurry. Try it and see how it works for you, but that's what I do. Finally, I would try to learn to sharpen freehand. It's easier with chisels, because of the larger bevel, but you can do plane irons that way too. It's a skill that will really pay off later if you get into carving and have to sharpen gouges, V-tools and other odd shaped chisels that aren't easy to do with a guide.


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

I use a piece of laminate covered particle board shelf from lowes. It is very flat and cost about $5, sure it isnt as cool sounding as a piece of glass or granite but it works well and was cheap. Another alternative is a cheap ceramic or glass cutting board from a discount store like Marshalls or TJ Maxx.


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## robertb574 (Jan 12, 2011)

I am mechanized now but my first successful sharpening setup was:

Salvaged window glass glued to some MDF. Cut sandpaper in quarters. No adhesive, just held down. Homemade honing guide without the wheel. The wood of the guide stayed on the glass with the blade on the sandpaper. And a few drops of mineral oil (baby oil in my case). The sandpaper lasted a lot longer with the oil.


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## luckysawdust (Sep 16, 2011)

All,

I actually wound up getting two granite tiles ($3.97 plus tax from Home Depot, vs. $4.99 from Lowe's), and used a light spray adhesive to attach sand-paper strips (400, 600, 800, 1000, 1500, 2000)

Here's about what it looks like:




























After all were attached, I took my only (1/2") chisel, and went to work, starting with the back of the chisel. Got it to a near-mirror finish with 30 minutes work.

I might as well give it a go by hand-we'll see if I can post some pictures of the final result.

- "Lucky"


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

you did good with those 2 tiles! the granite/glass isn't about "sounding cool", its about providing with a flat surface side-to-side and front-to-back so that you don't round over your irons.

theoretically pushing the blade is better as it removes the burr from the edge which would otherwise remain if you pull it across the sandpaper.

getting that initial bevel on the blade can be tricky, but once its there, with some practice it isn't too bad keeping the blade on the sandpaper at the correct bevel and free hand sharpen it - way faster than using any jig (way way way faster), just one of those skills that really pays off to develop, but is somewhat daunting to get started with it and keep at it.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Looks like you are all set. I have some plate glass purchased from a local glass company with pieces of sandpaper (80-2000 grit) stuck with spray glue. The low grits are for flattening plane soles and chisel backs. My results were inconsistent until I bought a honing guide which made all the difference. I push, don't know if it makes a difference, but my chisels and planes really do come out "scary sharp"; they shave easily.

Here is the honing guide I have, it was the only one available locally years ago when I started. The reviews on Amazon aren't very good but it has worked perfectly for me.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

I use the woodriver guide … about $10 and worth it IMO. Lets see that first arm hair shaving!


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## mtenterprises (Jan 10, 2011)

Read the reviews an the General Tools 809 Chisel/Plane Blade Sharpener. Just a quick tip on how to get your edge set flat, color the edge to be sharpened with RED Magic Marker set up your guide and make 1 (ONE) stroke on your sharpener then adjust your guide as necessary re-RED each time you reset your guide and make that one stroke. This way you can quickly sneek up on the angle you are looking for. Once you have your angle set you can go to town sharpening. This is how we were able to run a 0.00005" edge on carbide cutting tools in the machine shop.
MIKE


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## luckysawdust (Sep 16, 2011)

Sharpened my one and only chisel this afternoon, using the honing guide that I've seen most everywhere.

I was slightly concerned at first, because it didn't appear to be given the chisel a square edge (not sure if this is just the imperfections of the chisel, honing guide, sanding surface, etc. combined… or my error)










However, after going through all the grits, and after putting a secondary bevel on it, and going through all the grits again, and then stropping it on leather with some "ZAM" buffing compound (jeweler's rouge?), it came out quite nicely, and cuts like a red-hot knife through wax! Does shave the arm-hairs, but didn't get a picture of that. :-/










I might be able to improve the edge after a couple of tries with this honing guide-after I get the hang of it? In the very least, I have two bench planes to re-furbish, and whose blades need a good going-over.  At least now I'm set up to do it!

- "Lucky"


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## Woodiewannabe (Dec 29, 2015)

I know I'm posting late, but for anyone who still reads this here is my experience:
Surface
If you go with granite you should definitely check flatness, don't go with a light colored or fancy stone as they are more likely to be warped (granite does warp) or have dips (sometimes you can see resin areas where the manufacturer has repaired the surface). I use a 16×16x3/8" absolute black tile for multiple grits. I've thought of using backsplash, but when you get into longer pieces they have a lot of bend, and if your surface underneath is humped/dipped then the splash will most likely follow. 1/4"+ plate glass works well I've heard. 
Paper&adhesive
Wet/dry from A box store (60, 180, 320, 600), then you can get a combo pack from an auto store that goes up to 3 or 5k I believe ( they might have combo pack for lower grits too so I'd go there first). 3M 45 works fine for me, just light spray and smooth. Removal w/ granite is easy: denatured alcohol+ paper towel, and a razor blade or steel wool. If you do it all dry have a vac or handy or mask yourself. 
Method
Above comments are good. I've also read that side to side movement works extremely well. It can be done fairly simply jig-free, or a well balanced jig will slide fine one the stone. 
I can post pictures of my setup if I find that there is interest.


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## hokieman (Feb 14, 2008)

Like some have suggested, check it with a reliable straight edge. I got some scrap granite and it was REALLY warped. As much as a 64th in 16 inches. I then got the machined granite slab from Woodcraft which is flat to a couple of thou.


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## EMWW (Nov 25, 2015)

For sharpening I would reccomend watching Paul Sellers videos for sharpening. Originally I was extremely concerned with the angles but after watching his videos (at the beginning I was a skeptic) I saw the results and was so impressed I now follow his same basic idea and the chisels and planes I find work better that way than a set and strait angle. Of coarse everyone has a right to their own opinion and this is mine. I have included 2 links, one for hand planes and one for chisels.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

4 year old thread


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## EMWW (Nov 25, 2015)

I realized that shortly after posting but the information is still relevant and in my opinion helpful.


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## Pezking7p (Nov 17, 2013)

I used a piece of scrap plywood for ages. I switched to a granite scrap. Never noticed a difference between the two.

I bought a cheap honing guide. I would skip it and teach yourself to sharpen freehand. Cheap honing guides are not worth the trouble. By the time you have your blade secured, squared up, and at the right depth, you could have already sharpened your blade freehand.

I wouldn't "push" anything on sandpaper. You can either "pucker" the paper in front of your blade OR, what happens to me as often as not, the blade edge catches and digs in to the paper, swearing ensues. Sometimes items are thrown. It's not pretty. Please pull when you sharpen.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

No need for a large micro bevel like you have.

I started with the same setup. I have a 20 X 20 X 3/4 granite cut off. I just spray the back of the paper with a lil bit of wd40. I might have to hold the paper sometimes but it doesn't bother me.

I used to use a guide at first but caught onto free handing pretty quickly. It's really easy once you get a feel for it. I also push with no problems. The paper needs to be broken in for lack of a better word. It won't catch as easy If I take my time.

I will use the guide for primary bevels.


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## AandCstyle (Mar 21, 2012)

Go to a glass store and ask if they have any cut off scraps. I got a piece of 3/8" x 8" x 56" for $10. Not the ideal size for me, but it is what they had and the price was right. Almost all glass these days is "float" glass which means that it is dead flat. I use a Veritas MK II guide and like it a lot-it is easy to set up and I get consistent results.


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## theoldfart (Sep 9, 2011)

I also use float glass that I found at a yard sale, 1/2×24x24, and a MKII guide and this has worked well for me for years.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

Granite, wet/dri to 3Kgrit and the Veritas MkII, this is an unbeatable combination for quick, fast, easy and efficient.


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