# Seeking advice on Mission Style Inlay Techniques



## Sigung

Hey everybody, I'm looking to do my first inlay. I want to do something like in this picture:










..but I need some help and guidance.

I have some little bit of an idea about how to go about doing this, but not really. I can't figure out how to get the complex shapes at the spear point or whatever it is with regularity and accuracy.

CNC routing is not an option for me, this will be done either with a hand router plane with an inlay cutter or with a router with an inlay bit.


----------



## AandCstyle

Jerry, if you don't have a pattern, I recommend "Shop Drawings for Craftsman Inlays & Hardware" by Bob Lang. Unfortunately, it doesn't tell you how to actually make them, it just provides full scale drawings of Gustav Stickley and Harvey Ellis designs. I'm sorry I can't be of more help. Maybe Shipwright will jump in. He is a master at marquetry and teaches classes. I think he lives in your "neighborhood". Good luck.


----------



## MrLaughingbrook

Jerry, I've not done anything like that but do think about it from time to time. White circle inlay first with the router and inlay bit in a circle stencil. Regular veneer glue in the disk. Sand it smooth. Then the red one, same. Acrilic coat of Deft to block CA glue. For the curvy parts, Freehand through a paper sketch with a dremel or chisel. Remove paper template and clean up with chisel, sanding, fill the recessed areas with crushed stone or metal filings and CA thin then medium, sand it smooth. Good Luck!! Keep me posted.


----------



## Sigung

> Jerry, if you don t have a pattern, I recommend "Shop Drawings for Craftsman Inlays & Hardware" by Bob Lang. Unfortunately, it doesn t tell you how to actually make them, it just provides full scale drawings of Gustav Stickley and Harvey Ellis designs. I m sorry I can t be of more help. Maybe Shipwright will jump in. He is a master at marquetry and teaches classes. I think he lives in your "neighborhood". Good luck.
> 
> - AandCstyle


Thanks Art, the pattern is not the problem, I spent 20 years as a graphic designer so I can duplicate these patterns with my eyes closed in Photoshop, but actually cutting them, that is the challenge. I don't know if I have the physical control to do work that fine with a router…but maybe I do…


----------



## Sigung

> Jerry, I've not done anything like that but do think about it from time to time. White circle inlay first with the router and inlay bit in a circle stencil. Regular veneer glue in the disk. Sand it smooth. Then the red one, same. Acrilic coat of Deft to block CA glue. For the curvy parts, Freehand through a paper sketch with a dremel or chisel. Remove paper template and clean up with chisel, sanding, fill the recessed areas with crushed stone or metal filings and CA thin then medium, sand it smooth. Good Luck!! Keep me posted.
> 
> - MrLaughingbrook


Sounds like a good plan, it looks like this is gonna be a tough one…


----------



## Lazyman

Did you see this piece in person of is this a picture you found? Do you know if it is an older piece or something made recently. The reason I am asking is that the grey and sort of mauve parts look like some sort of epoxy which would be a lot easier than trying to inlay a solid material. I am guessing it was done with a dremel in a router type base. There are several examples of DIY bases in the LJ projects. The 2 round discs could have been cut with a forstner bit and then the grey part done with the dremel and then filled with an epoxy with some sort of dye or filler.


----------



## Sigung

> Did you see this piece in person of is this a picture you found? Do you know if it is an older piece or something made recently. The reason I am asking is that the grey and sort of mauve parts look like some sort of epoxy which would be a lot easier than trying to inlay a solid material. I am guessing it was done with a dremel in a router type base. There are several examples of DIY bases in the LJ projects. The 2 round discs could have been cut with a forstner bit and then the grey part done with the dremel and then filled with an epoxy with some sort of dye or filler.
> 
> - Lazyman


Thanks Nathan, this is a current offering of Steve Voorhees I've emailed him and am hoping for some guidance. The problem for me is not the inlay part, it's the cutting part.


----------



## pintodeluxe

Most modern makers are doing this type of inlay with veneer and CNC. I'm not sure how the original Stickley group did that inlay, but the modern version isn't really inlay per se, but marquetry. It's a whole science of its own.


----------



## tinnman65

All the inlay I have done has been with a Dremel that was mounted to a small router base from Stewart Mac. I have seen the Veritas version of a small router base and it is excellent. I would suggest that you don't even try this with the Dremel brand router base as in my opinion its the definition of junk. You can buy small 1/16" upcut or downcut bits for the Dremel I just can't remember off hand where I bought mine from. I always cut my inlay parts out of veneer cut with a scroll saw or my chevolet, lay them on the field of wood with tape, and then trace out the parts with a scapple or Xacto knife. from there I cut out the waste. The reason I do it this way is if I have any inconsistencies between the pattern and the parts I cut out from the veneer the cavity will match my parts exactly. (or as close as my eyes can make it).Also, remember to stack cut your parts so they all look the same even if you get off the pattern a little while cutting. Just thought I would give you insight as to how I do it. I'm sure there are a number of ways to get it done. Good luck!


----------



## Sigung

> Most modern makers are doing this type of inlay with veneer and CNC. I m not sure how the original Stickley group did that inlay, but the modern version isn t really inlay per se, but marquetry. It s a whole science of its own.
> 
> - pintodeluxe


I see….Thanks Willie!


----------



## Sigung

> All the inlay I have done has been with a Dremel that was mounted to a small router base from Stewart Mac. I have seen the Veritas version of a small router base and it is excellent. I would suggest that you don t even try this with the Dremel brand router base as in my opinion its the definition of junk. You can buy small 1/16" upcut or downcut bits for the Dremel I just can t remember off hand where I bought mine from. I always cut my inlay parts out of veneer cut with a scroll saw or my chevolet, lay them on the field of wood with tape, and then trace out the parts with a scapple or Xacto knife. from there I cut out the waste. The reason I do it this way is if I have any inconsistencies between the pattern and the parts I cut out from the veneer the cavity will match my parts exactly. (or as close as my eyes can make it).Also, remember to stack cut your parts so they all look the same even if you get off the pattern a little while cutting. Just thought I would give you insight as to how I do it. I m sure there are a number of ways to get it done. Good luck!
> 
> - tinnman65


Very good information Paul, I appreciate the detailed explanation!


----------



## Druid

Hi Jerry,
What you might want to look at is information on Marquetry, and as an excellent starting point, I would suggest contacting Paul at . . .
https://www.lumberjocks.com/shipwright
He teaches Marquetry, and you will find many excellent examples on his LJ page.

Looks like an interesting project ahead of you.

Best regards,
John.


----------



## pontic

They used veneer scribes and plows. They look like checking tools and marking knives. There is still an English company that sells them. I'll look up the name for you. Be prepared to lighten your wallet.


----------



## shipwright

Hi Jerry. Late to the party but I think other Paul (tinnman) about hit it. The recess cutting will be the art to learn. 
Personally I would do the whole surface as a marquetry piece and match my background veneer as closely to the solid carcass as I could. That shouldn't be hard as QSWO is easy to find in veneer. 
I think the way they did it back in the day was by having amazing talent.


----------



## Sigung

> Hi Jerry,
> What you might want to look at is information on Marquetry, and as an excellent starting point, I would suggest contacting Paul at . . .
> https://www.lumberjocks.com/shipwright
> He teaches Marquetry, and you will find many excellent examples on his LJ page.
> 
> Looks like an interesting project ahead of you.
> 
> Best regards,
> John.
> 
> - Druid


I've been following Paul for quite some time, he's one of my lumberjocks buddiies and an amazing craftsman!


----------



## Sigung

> They used veneer scribes and plows. They look like checking tools and marking knives. There is still an English company that sells them. I ll look up the name for you. Be prepared to lighten your wallet.
> 
> - pontic


I can't even find veneer scribes and plows on the internet, so I'm relying on you to look that up, THANKS!


----------



## Sigung

> Hi Jerry. Late to the party but I think other Paul (tinnman) about hit it. The recess cutting will be the art to learn.
> Personally I would do the whole surface as a marquetry piece and match my background veneer as closely to the solid carcass as I could. That shouldn't be hard as QSWO is easy to find in veneer.
> I think the way they did it back in the day was by having amazing talent.
> 
> - shipwright


Thanks Paul, yes this looks like it's waaay out of my comfort zone, and no matter which way I do it, it's going to be all new and very hard for me. Looks like I need to go back and study your past projects again….


----------



## shipwright

This is as close as I could find in my posts. It isn't matched to a solid substrate but it does show how the surface can be treated as marquetry.
https://www.lumberjocks.com/shipwright/blog/31202


----------



## Sigung

> This is as close as I could find in my posts. It isn't matched to a solid substrate but it does show how the surface can be treated as marquetry.
> https://www.lumberjocks.com/shipwright/blog/31202
> 
> - shipwright


Thanks Paul, I'm looking it over as we speak.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I did these inlays with flexcut micro carving tools. The brass is 1/8" stock and if I remember correctly they are 1-1/4" tall for scale. The brass was water jet cut (sorry Shipwright, but I don't have a Chevy yet) and then carved into the Bubinga applicays. I believe specialize tools were handmade and used for this type of fabrication, but I have no historical information on this. I carved the recess and dry fitted as tight as I could get it, then glued tapped into place. I left the brass proud of the wood, and then filed and sanded flush.


----------



## Hammerthumb

double post


----------



## BobLang

The originals were not inlayed into solid wood, but prepared as a sheet of veneers. That sheet is then glued down to the solid wood. Still tricky, but manageable.


----------



## Sigung

> The originals were not inlayed into solid wood, but prepared as a sheet of veneers. That sheet is then glued down to the solid wood. Still tricky, but manageable.
> 
> - BobLang


Thanks Bob, I have your book Shop Drawings for Greene & Greene Furniture. I bet if I look in there I'll find more info. Didn't even think…


----------



## a1Jim

Seems you have contact with all the people I was thinking of suggesting to help Jerry I don't think you can't do better than Paul and Bob's advice,the only other person I was thinking of is Darrell Peart but I'm not sure he's an inlay expert. Good luck on your project.

https://www.artisticwoodstudio.com/videos


----------



## Sigung

> Seems you have contact with all the people I was thinking of suggesting to help Jerry I don t think you can t do better than Paul and Bob s advice,the only other person I was thinking of is Darrell Peart but I m not sure he s an inlay expert. Good luck on your project.
> 
> https://www.artisticwoodstudio.com/videos
> 
> - a1Jim


Thanks for thinking of me Jim


----------



## EarlS

Jerry - take a look at the video build that Kevin Rodel did for his A&C bed article in FWW. He did a bunch of inlay work on it.

Can I put a request in for you to make a blog of your efforts? I, for one, want to learn how to make Harvey Ellis inlays but don't really know where to start.


----------



## JADobson

I've been following this as I have a similar project on the horizon. I had thought that LV's inlay kit would be the easiest solution: This one or this one. Or am I missing something?


----------



## Sigung

> Jerry - take a look at the video build that Kevin Rodel did for his A&C bed article in FWW. He did a bunch of inlay work on it.
> 
> Can I put a request in for you to make a blog of your efforts? I, for one, want to learn how to make Harvey Ellis inlays but don t really know where to start.
> 
> - EarlS


Earl, could you please post a link to that video? I have no idea where to find it.


----------



## Sigung

> I ve been following this as I have a similar project on the horizon. I had thought that LV s inlay kit would be the easiest solution: This one or this one. Or am I missing something?
> 
> - JADobson


Those inlay sets are fine for large simple shapes, but if you take a look at this:










You will see that this is far from a simple shape. It is delicate and has compound curves and is going to take a great deal of skill and precision no matter how it's approached, so the question I posed had much more to do with learning the proper technique for making such delicate inlays and not so much what equipment or tools to use.


----------



## EarlS

Here is the link the the Kevin Rodel A&C bed build including inlay (episode 8).


----------



## Sigung

> Here is the link the the Kevin Rodel A&C bed build including inlay (episode 8).
> 
> - EarlS


Thanks Earl, much appreciated!


----------



## SMP

I went to a Lie Nielsen event near me a couple months ago. They had some demos of this and had the kit. Looks like lead time on it but would be interesting to talk to them. I have called and emailed Lie Nielsen several times and they have always been very helpful. You may want to see if there are any events near you coming up, well worth going.
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/tools-for-inlay/tools-for-inlay-inlay-tool-set-?node=4180


----------



## Sigung

> I went to a Lie Nielsen event near me a couple months ago. They had some demos of this and had the kit. Looks like lead time on it but would be interesting to talk to them. I have called and emailed Lie Nielsen several times and they have always been very helpful. You may want to see if there are any events near you coming up, well worth going.
> https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/tools-for-inlay/tools-for-inlay-inlay-tool-set-?node=4180
> 
> - SMP


Thank you.


----------



## shipwright

Same picture same woodworker, one with an inlay set on a router and one in marquetry.
I know which one I like. 









https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/37810










https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/86245


----------



## Gene01

Jerry, for you it's but a hop, skip and a jump to Paul's shop. Put your project on hold, take his class and come away with a Chevelet de marqueterie plus a boat load of info. .


----------



## Sigung

> Same picture same woodworker, one with an inlay set on a router and one in marquetry.
> I know which one I like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/37810
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/86245
> 
> - shipwright


Really beautiful Paul. I like the same one you do!


----------



## Sigung

> Jerry, for you it s but a hop, skip and a jump to Paul s shop. Put your project on hold, take his class and come away with a Chevelet de marqueterie plus a boat load of info. .
> 
> - Gene Howe


Not so simple Gene, wife works from home and can't get the time off, she also has a medical condition that makes it impossible for me to leave her alone.


----------



## Gene01

Sorry, Jerry. Had I known, I'd have not suggested it. 
Good luck in your quest. Some good ideas have been posted. Wish I could be of help but, it's way outta my league.


----------



## Sigung

> Sorry, Jerry. Had I known, I d have not suggested it.
> Good luck in your quest. Some good ideas have been posted. Wish I could be of help but, it s way outta my league.
> 
> - Gene Howe


No worries Gene, don't think I haven't thought about going up there to see Paul, I just can't find my way clear. You're right, some good ideas have been posted and I'm homing in on a solution that will work for me.


----------



## Mahdeew

Hi Jerry,
Looking at the first picture the "inlay" on the right, you can see the wood grains under the stem which tells me this is a painting not an inlay; just my $.02


----------



## Sigung

> Hi Jerry,
> Looking at the first picture the "inlay" on the right, you can see the wood grains under the stem which tells me this is a painting not an inlay; just my $.02
> 
> - mahdee


Out of respect for Steve Voorhees, I must lodge a disagreement to your statement. Go to the actual product page where he lists this piece under "Inlaid Pieces" and click on the product image, then when you get to the product page, click on the image again to open the picture by itself, then click one more time to open the high resolution image. It is clearly NOT paint.


----------



## Mahdeew

I saw the same thing. The inlay maybe epoxy or something that is poured. Unless there is a specification that the inlay is made with wood. I didn't mean any disrespect to the maker.


----------



## BobLang

The real inlays are wood veneer, sometimes combined with copper or pewter.

You can buy completed marquetry from Mitch Andrus:
https://www.missionfurnishings.com/category/Inlaid-Furniture-Parts.aspx


----------



## Sigung

> The real inlays are wood veneer, sometimes combined with copper or pewter.
> 
> You can buy completed marquetry from Mitch Andrus:
> https://www.missionfurnishings.com/category/Inlaid-Furniture-Parts.aspx
> 
> - BobLang


Wow Bob, Thanks! If I can't make my own, which is a definite possibility, I will certainly avail myself of this resource. Fantastic!


----------



## Sigung

> I saw the same thing. The inlay maybe epoxy or something that is poured. Unless there is a specification that the inlay is made with wood. I didn t mean any disrespect to the maker.
> 
> - mahdee


Understood


----------



## BlueRidgeDog

Fine Woodworking has a video series of Rodel doing an inlay similar on a bed.

https://www.finewoodworking.com/2017/08/10/ep-8-curved-inlay


----------



## Sigung

> Fine Woodworking has a video series of Rodel doing an inlay similar on a bed.
> 
> https://www.finewoodworking.com/2017/08/10/ep-8-curved-inlay
> 
> - BlueRidgeDog


This is VERY helpful, THANKS!


----------



## EarlS

Jerry - I couldn't find the link that Bob mentioned but I have bought and used his inlays and they are really nice. For obvious reasons, they are not cheap but you do get what you pay for.


----------

