# "Newest" toy for timber framing



## BobM001 (Jan 8, 2012)

I've been looking at a lot of BIG circular saws for doing timber framing. The "Bigfoot" add on based on the Skil worm drive and others. This deal on the Milwaukee 6470-21 was just to good to pass up. List is $592. FREE UPS Next Day Air shipping! It comes with a STEEL case. This thing is a BEAST. Electronic brake, auto stop for 45 deg bevel with a push button override to go to 60 deg. FIVE YEAR warranty. Can't wait to do some shoulder cuts on tenons and cross cuts for stock removal on the cheeks before chisel paring/planing. This coupled with a Prazi beam cutter on a Skil HD5865 8 1/4 worm drive and I think I'm just about good to go.


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

I've been looking at those as I see them go up for sale somewhat regularly around here (in Mississippi… don't know why).

I cut my own lumber and sometimes end up with 3 or 4 inch thick pieces that I can't cut with a circular saw and are way too heavy to put on a tablesaw or pass through a bandsaw.

For now, I built a jig (a rail with a carrier) for my smaller chainsaw that I use to cut my slabs into manageable pieces.

Let us know how well the Bigfoot works. I just wasn't sure it was going to have enough power to cut what I cut.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Why not just go for the 16" Mikita


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

There are also attachments to turn your circ saw into a mini chainsaw.










I just think I'd only get limited use out of such an item… even though it'd be cool to have.


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## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

When I built my DIY TF back in the dark ages, I looked very seriously at the 10" Milwaukee. It's a very well made saw and I think you'll love it for the type of joinery work you described.

The key to these big saws, imho, is the base. And the Milwaukee has a good one.

I was fortunate enough to get a lot of advice and help from a "real" timber framer who had a 16" Makita that was tricked out with an oversized 1/4" aluminum saw base that kept the blade plumb to the base and allowed for *accurate * depth and angle settings. These bases were custom made buy a guy in the Timber Framers Guild and sold to a small number of his colleagues. Back in the day, timber framers were quite the eclectic niche and they were very helpfull and willing to share their knowledge and skill. This guy lent me his 16" Makita, a Holzer chain mortice and a 12" Makita power hand planer for several weeks. I cut the frame in 1/10th the time it would have taken otherwise.

I've since used two other 16" Makitas on multiple occasions and without the base upgrade, the saw is seriously lacking. It's good for cross cutting timbers on horses to length and that's about it. The base flexes under the significant weight of the saw and can't hold square, let alone an angle. The last time I used one was when I build my pole barn 2.5 yrs ago. I was trimming a post while aloft and the base flexed, binding the blade and almost threw me :^O

I did wind up getting the 8" Milwaukee instead, and it has been my only CS till date. It has the same 15 amp motor as the 10" and you simply can't kill it. Serious power! I've blind ripped hard wood 5×7 stock (rip, flip, and rip the other side), and it never so much as blinked.

You won't be disappointed.


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## FirehouseWoodworking (Jun 9, 2009)

We have two of them at work on our Rescue Trailers, one the older model, and the second the new model which you show here. Amongst other things, we teach firefighters Urban Search & Rescue type training and use these saws in our Structural Collapse and Trench Rescue courses. They get heavy use in cutting 4×4s, both cross cutting and ripping our wedges and shims.

The biggest issue in training firefighters to use them is that the initial impression is "This is just a circular saw, how difficult can it be?" They are just not expecting the power and torque these babies put out.

Our older saw had a pressed sheet steel shoe and the new one has what looks like a cast base. With the older one, we occasionally had to do some maintenance because the saw was dropped and the show got bent. No biggie. No such problems with the new model. I also like the forward grip on the new model better than the screw-on forward grip of the older one.

They get used and abused and just keep on cutting!

I cannot say enough good things about these saws. You will enjoy your saw.

Cheers!


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## BobM001 (Jan 8, 2012)

"Why not just go for the 16" Mikita" 
Because I like to BUY AMERICAN anytime I can. Because Milwaukee has been tools used by me during my time working in the trades and I know of their quality/reliability. I have their deep cut VS Port-A- Band saw and it's THEE FINEST on the planet! A Milwaukee 2 speed/VS Sawzall too. Often copied, never equalled. The shoe on the Makita I feel is way to small for the size of the saw. It's also stamped steel. The shoe on the Milwaukee is 9" wide and 1/4" thick aluminum. The Milwaukee FIVE year warranty vs Makita's ONE year was a factor as well. Do you get a steel case with Makita tools? NOPE.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

Last time I used a 15" circular saw, I realized how important a sharp blade is. Rental centers!


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## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

another plus the 10" has going for it…

availability, selection and price of blades….

the 16" Makita carbide blade runs $130, and is pretty much a general purpose blade


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

""Why not just go for the 16" Mikita" 
Because I like to BUY AMERICAN" by BobM001

I bought a "Milwaukee Sawzall" exactly because, at the time (2010), it was the only recip saw made in the USA. Since then I bought a Milwaukee 1/2" drill and 1/4" impact driver combo and a Milwaukee cordless circular saw. Everything since the Sawzall was made in China. I seriously doubt there is a circular saw on the market today that is made in the USA.

I personally wish American companies could not market crap made in China under the same brand name as the American built products they built their reputation on. But, nobody asked me.

As far as that goes, Mikita tools used to be Japanese built products, but today they are also made in China. Might as well get used to it.


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## BobM001 (Jan 8, 2012)

Much to my chagrin on a small foil sticker on the motor reads:
Milwaukee Electric Tool Corp
Brookfield WI 53005 USA
Professionally Made in China by
Milwaukee Electric Tool, PRC

SUMBITCH! Well. at least the profits come back here. I think I'm going to fire off a rather "terse" email to the "Milwaukee Electric Tool Corp USA" and tell them just what I think of their manufacturing policies as to "non disclosure". I'm with you "Crank". There oughta be a law that says point blank where items are made by USA companies. But I guess I'd be wasting electrons traveling through cyberspace. My 2004 Chevy PU was made in Canada while the engine was built in Silao, Mexico. Pardon my French but, ******************** A BUNCH O' "GLOBAL ECONOMY"!


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## RandyM68 (Jan 20, 2012)

Of course it's built in China, if they tried to build one here, you couldn't afford it anyway.


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## bench_dogg (Oct 23, 2009)

Well, at least it was made by professionals.


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## BobM001 (Jan 8, 2012)

Just in case someone is "interested". It's NIB. Milwaukee 10 1/4. Better move FAST!


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

Bob, watch out for the Prazi. I bought one like the picture above around 16 years ago. Used it a couple times. You can propably do a better job with a real chain saw. The Prazi just left me feeling like I had a big hole in my pocket where my money used to be. It laid in my tool box in my old truck till I sold the truck. Good riddance. 
.

It's a shame about the Millwaukees. I looked at buying a new Millwaukee cordless drill sometime in the 1980s. Sitting next to one was a Panasonic that looked identical except for the color. I looked at the tags on both, and both were made by Panasonic.

Beams saws, I've had one of those 16" Makitas for a long, long time. It has served me well. Cut a lot of timber roof trusses, beams for bridges, and exterior stair stringers with that thing. It looks nothing like the photo above. Mine is all metal, kinda gold in color, yes the shoe on the Makita is narrow. But all 16" saws I ever seen are the same. They're that way for a reason, 16"s is a lot of blade spinnig.

If you live close by and you're interested I have a 16" Ryobi beam saw I'll part with cheap, real cheap, Like $35.00 cheap, about all it's worth. It's well used but still it works ok. Needs new brushes and has a steel blade, no carbide. You really need a 16" carbide tip blade on one of these and they aint cheap, $200.00 +range. You might find an 16" Irwin for $125-150.


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## BobM001 (Jan 8, 2012)

Just out of curiousity what was your biggest issue with the Prazi? Mine hasn't been used and if it has "issues" I can still return it in the original box. I'm afraid East Texas is a "fir piece" to travel for your saw. I appreciate your offer and comments. BTW, I won that 10 1/4 Milwaukee on eBay. New in the box for $224. My buddy's commercial UPS account gets it shipped to me for $14. It's a BEEEUTEEFUL thing! I know I can make at least a Ben Franklin if I sell it.

As for the cordless drills. I've tried 'em all and I LOVE my 15.6V Panasonic. That 1/2" driver drill will bust your wrist in low gear.


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

BobM, let me know how that Milwaukee turns out. On my 3" slabs I cut, the 7-1/4 can barely make it through (due to warping during drying).

Devann, if your Makita works well, I'd be interested possibly.

Most of the time, if it's too thick, I will either freehand a cut with my small saw (Stihl 250 or 270) or attach the small saw to my rail jig and run a long cut that way. I have to come back and finish it with a power planer or router bridge jig.


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

*Bob*, the Prazi would only make decent cuts square/ 90° ends. You can do that with a chain saw. I had a ten sided pergoda to build, so I tried the Prazi to make 18° cuts on 4×12 beams and it would "walk" making unacceptable bevel cuts.

*Doss*, sorry the Makita works fine, it's a keeper. A good beam saw will save you a lot of time.


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

I meant the Ryobi. Whoops! Does it have a lot of power? I cut wet slabs and beams (about 1 year dried) and need something to swap to when the chainsaw gets heavy.


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

*Doss*, I don't think you would be happy with my Ryobi saw. While it does run and will cut, it's a clunker, you have to find some brushes sooner than later. And a carbide tip blade is a must $$$. The saw has been out of production for more than ten years. As I recall I would resharpen the steel blade by hand after 4 hrs. use in the field. I even have one of those Swanson Tool Co.(the speed sq. guys) tooth setting devices.

You mention that you are cutting 3" slabs? Are you ripping or cross cutting? A beam saw is not suitable for ripping. They are just big "skilsaws". They have similar 110v/15 amp motors. If you don't maintain a straight cut you can bog down the motor. It doesn't have the violet kickback you experience with a 7 1/4" saw blade. They will cross cut ok, but the feed rate is measured in inches per minute not feet per minute. And the beams I generally cut are douglas fir. I would only consider using a beam saw for ripping as a last resort.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Not long after my wife and I got married I wanted to build us a timber framed home and bought every book I could find on it at the time and still have them. However, I could never scrape up the time because of my work. There was a picture in one of those books of a blacksmith shop that was in a timber framed building that had cantilever arched ceilings and I always thought that that shop was the most beautiful shop that I ever saw.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

The John C Cambpbelll Folk School is a wonderful place just across the North Georia line up in North Carolina and they teach all kinds of wonderful things including timber framing, woodworking, and woodcarving. 




I was trying to find a picture of that shop and ran across this.

In this group of pictures is http://www.google.com/imgres?q=blacksmith+shop+in+timber+framed+building&start=0&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1680&bih=927&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=Dira0zdQRgakrM:&imgrefurl=http://small-scale.net/&docid=VUmhUbgtG9pW7M&imgurl=http://small-scale.net/yearofmud/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/holderbros-3.png&w=510&h=382&ei=5A5vT_fHJM_qtgeM38i-Bg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=561&vpy=453&dur=3657&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=137&ty=125&sig=112049444480234700596&page=1&tbnh=144&tbnw=192&ndsp=41&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0 which was similar but I don't think was it.

To me a timber framed building done right is one of the prettiest things there is.

Any of you who are into timber framing probably have some of those older books and probably know the picture that I'm referring to. If you know where that picture is I wish that you would post it. It is a beautiful shop building.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## BobM001 (Jan 8, 2012)

I'm pretty much "set" with the majority of tools that I may need to do the building. The major puzzle piece still missing is the "skills". That I hope to rectify this summer. I'm going to go to the Fox Maple Workshops late summer and take the introductory and advanced courses. I have been reading a couple of books. One by Steve Chappell the owner of Fox Maple I believe. Good stuff! Another by Stewart Elliot and Eugenie Wallas. As you look at the illustrations of the framing in these books you can see why these old barns that as long as the roofs were kept sound, they last for centuries. Plus the interior when finished IMO has it all over a log cabin. My hunt camp needs a bunk room addition. A BIG one. I have several sawmills nearby for a source of timbers. One Amish fellow that's quite reasonable.


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## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

Charles,

I"m pretty sure your barn pic is in Ted Benson's first book "Building the Timber Frame House" and shows Ed Levin in a Hammer Truss framed blacksmith barn.

Is this the one you're thinking of?


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## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

Jack Sobon was my inspiration and I built a slightly modified version of his Hall and Parlor house…
No classes (though I certainly would have benefited from them) just a pile of books, a wooded lot, a modest stash of cash (my navy bonus for extending my "joy ride" for three years) and the rare gift of a year with no committments (I got out of the navy and postponed my job search).










This book changed my life!

The guy who lent me the beam saw and advised me was apprenticed by Steve Chappell…. who, along with Ted Benson and the likes, were at the vanguard of the Timber Frame renaissance.


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## BobM001 (Jan 8, 2012)

Looks like I need another "textbook" to add to the curriculum. Thanks for the input.


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## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

Building a TF was one of the neatest things I ever got to do in life (so far :^)

If you can make it work, I highly recommend you go for it…

I lived in a buddies basement, ate a lot of PB&J and cut a lot joints while standing in 2' of snow.

I had the added "joy" of clearing the lot and tending the Wood Mizer man, as we cut the logs into beams.

Unfortunatley, I see a lot of checks and gaps in joints from the lumber shrinking….

But I live in the house that I built with my own hands…. from trees that I cut myself… and no one can take that away from me….

well no one but the gub'ment, when they tax me out of it to pay for someone elses health and child care.


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## BobM001 (Jan 8, 2012)

WOO HOO! (Insert rim shot)


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

"You mention that you are cutting 3" slabs? Are you ripping or cross cutting? A beam saw is not suitable for ripping. They are just big "skilsaws"." - Devann

Yeah, I know. I do ripping with a ripping blade on a 7-1/4. It's no fun and that thing does not like thick slabs that are still slightly wet.

The chainsaw on the other hand… doesn't seem to argue too often. I have all sorts of chains, ripping, chisel, skip, standard. The one thing I hate is sharpening my chains. That really gets old. You said sharpen ever 4 hours… I would kill for that long a break. After every 3-4 cuts, I sharpen in some fashion.

Then again, those cuts are 10-14' long across a 30-50" diameter log with a 66" chainsaw-- fun fun.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Thanks. I do believe that's it. I know I had his book. Some of my older books are packed away in boxes because of the kids having to move in and out and back in again so I can't say for sure. I was never able to build mine but I'm sure glad that some of you were able to. I just always worked too many hours most of my working life. Then I wanted to build my own conventional house but was unable to work that out either. Anyways, Thanks.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com/


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

*Bob*, Good luck with you timber framing endeavors. It's heavy and hard if you don't have some sort of machinery to pick that stuff up. The timber framing you referenced in your link is little different from my timber framing experiences. I'm accustomed to engineered drawings and steel plates and through bolts most of the time. But I did get a drawing once for roof trusses that had no steel plates. The engineer had me using 14"x 3/4" lags screws and 11"x 3/4" lag screws for the 4×6 webbing to 4×8 top/bottom cord connections. We built a bunch of those roof trusses for clubhouse porch areas on apartment projects. I remember setting 12"x12" post with 12"x 16" beams. Some days I might only get two or three of those beams set. I picked them up with and 8042 Skytrack. The beams were so out of square, it could be a challenge to get my line around the beam to start and end at the same place.

*Doss*, It sounds like use could use a really,really big bandsaw.


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## PutnamEco (May 27, 2009)

If your going to get serious about larger beam saws and you don't like Chinese have a look a Protool and Mafell.
I do my shopping for these at  Timberwolf tools you may also find their portable band saws of interest. Mafell makes a chainsaw style beam saw which is a LOT more refined than the Prazi being a dedicated tool rather than a tool accessory. Most of these saws can be used on guide rails as well, just like Festools. As an added bonus a lot of these saws are equipt with a riving knife.

Milwaukee tools are a division of Techtronic Industries aka TTI Which is a Chinese company.


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## BobM001 (Jan 8, 2012)

Guess who makes all the Rigid Power Tools? As well as Homelite, AEG, and Ryobi.

WHEW! $6900+ for a beam cutter is a bit out of my price range. Fantastic tool though! Like anything, all it takes is $$$$.


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## ohtimberwolf (Dec 17, 2011)

BobM001 Check this out. Larry

http://www.gettextbooks.com/search/?isbn=0684172860


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

Yeah, I saw the Timberwolf link on one of the other sites I'm on (Arborist Site).

I would never use those tools enough to justify their price. I would instead just buy a bandsaw mill (portable cheap one) that I could get a lot more use out of. There are a few out there that can handle large logs for low price… they just may not last very long (not a big deal since I can rebuild them fairly easily).

For now though, I'll stick with the MS880 and some sweat.


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## PutnamEco (May 27, 2009)

Re:"WHEW! $6900+ for a beam cutter is a bit out of my price range."
................................
One of the great things about timberframe is it has been traditionally done with ALL hand tools, and still can be done that way by some one with determination and patience

Occasional deals can be found for used Mafell and ProTool equipment as not many people actually know about or shop for them. Craigslist comes to mind, forget Ebay as their audience is wide enough for auction fever to price tools beyond their market value.


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## sethC (Sep 24, 2012)

i have tired both the Makita 5402A for rip cutting timbers and the 6460 Milwaukee 10 1/4" circular saws. The Makita was just too underpowered at 15amps and without an electric break the blade would just spin in excess before and after the cut. I ended up burning up the Milwaukee's motor cutting concrete with it, and it was a really loud saw to begin with. I was wondering if anyone has any experience using the Makita 5402NA 20amp saw with electric break or the Big Boy 14" Skil powered saw by Bigfoot tools, and what were their thoughts?


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## higtron (Jan 26, 2011)

We use the bigfoot on our job site it is a great saw, but it's power source is a skil model 77 worm drive motor. You try not to lug it down to much like makeing rip cuts in a 4×6 beam, you can but you can't force the cut or you will likely burn the motor up, not good.


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