# Modern American Hand Tool Forum



## BigRedKnothead

This thread is dedicated to hand tool renaissance we are experiencing in our country. North American hand tool makers are thriving again, and God Bless 'em!

Tools posted and discussed herein shall be:
- Made in North America. Yes, that includes Canadian (Veritas etc)
- Made in the past 30 years or so
- Woodworking related










-

I'm passionate about the topic because dad was a foundry worker/toolmaker in the 70's. Back then, wrenches and pliers were the only tools he had the opportunity to make. Hand planes, chisels, and the like were all sent overseas after WWII.

So, I applaud folks like Thomas Lie-Nielsen, Leonard Lee, Glen Drake, and countless other small-time tool makers for there efforts in bringing tool making back home. Their labor, and their tools, are not cheap. That's just the state of manufacturing in our country. I used to scoff and the prices too. However, when I saved and sold commissions to afford their fine tools, I found they were oh so worth it.

So bring it on. Bust out your Gramercy, Starretts, Lie-Nielsons and so forth. Ask questions or just post pics for us to drool on.

The only rule is: Be nice, or be gone.

The North American Toolmakers we heart:
http://www.jwildingplanemaker.com/
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/
http://www.veritastools.com
http://www.bluesprucetoolworks.com/
http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/
http://www.rmsaws.com/
http://www.glen-drake.com/
https://barrtools.com/
https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/dept/CGT
http://www.knewconcepts.com/
http://www.sterlingtoolworks.com/
http://blackbearforge.com/
http://www.barrtools.com/
http://www.bridgecitytools.com/
http://www.blackburntools.com/
http://www.bontzsawworks.net/
http://floriptoolworks.com/
http://www.vaughanmfg.com/
http://www.daedtoolworks.com/
http://sauerandsteiner.blogspot.com/
http://scottmeekwoodworks.com/
http://calebjameschairmaker.com/
http://www.walkemooretools.com/
http://www.breseplane.com/
http://www.andersonplanes.com/
http://www.hamiltontools.com/
http://counciltool.com/
http://www.woodjoytools.com/
http://www.lazarushandplane.com/
http://www.robcosman.com/tools.htm
https://www.ibctools.ca/
http://www.beebeknives.com


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## BigRedKnothead

And the making of the Lie Nielsen is such a fitting first post. I can watch this video over and over.


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## lateralus819

WhoopWhoop. Finally a place to call home.


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## August

Oh men this is something I'm going to be watching and participate a lot,.


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## ColonelTravis

Just bought that Knew Concepts saw after a long time thinking - this has got to be not worth the money. 
My friends - it is worth the money.

I've read reviews from people who say it only does the same thing a $10 coping saw does.
My friends - it does, but it does it better. I've gone through many coping saws and hated every single one of them. I almost didn't get the KC saw because of this experience, but I had a few amazon gift certificates sitting around and said - what the heck. Very happy with the purchase.

I'm with you Red and give a standing ovation for the quality toolmakers today. I love the old stuff, and have more of it, but the new stuff can be just as good or better.


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## summerfi

Looking forward to this thread, Red. Old or new, nobody does it better than America. Thanks for including one of my saws in the intro pic.

Just a suggestion…how about starting a list of links to modern toolmakers in the OP.


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## BigRedKnothead

^Good Idea Bob. Give 'em some love.

Travis, you can see my KC in the OP. Although, mine is heavily modified;-)


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## TheFridge

Hey August! Good to see you lurking bud.

My (other) new baby. The Summerfield special. And a free starrettindicator set. 




































Edit: red, that a veritas spokeshave?


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## widdle




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## ToddJB

Wids, your gonna need to crop that eggbeater out.


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## TheFridge

Ha! I didn't even see it!


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## widdle

I bought it and never checked to see if it had jaws…I t doesn't , so that's where it lives…

With all due respect to Bob's beautifull saws….

I don't use glenn Drake's saw that much , but i think his blade design and sharpening make his saws smooth and as quick as any saw i've used… they have no teeth on the front and rear 1 1/2" +-... hard to explain but super smooth…


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## August

I'll start with this


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## DLK

It would be nice to know who are the LJ hand-tool makers are that sell their wears. Just so that I can buy/trade with them. So far I have from TerryR a very nice marking knife and dovetail knife. Need to buy a saw from Bob, and also from Erik and an infill from DonW and ….. ?


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## Mosquito

Oh man, you even got August to show up for this one!


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## ToddJB

Red, do you have a definition of "morden" so we're all on the same page? Currently manufacturing?


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## Mosquito

> Tools posted and discussed herein shall be:
> - Made in the past 30 years or so.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I guess it doesn't say it has to still be in production, but does suggest within around 30 years


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## August

> Oh man, you even got August to show up for this one!
> 
> - Mosquito


LOL 
I'm gonna enjoy this blog
How are you ?


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## bobasaurus

I would love a Summerfield saw… someday.


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## BigRedKnothead

> Red, do you have a definition of "morden" so we re all on the same page? Currently manufacturing?
> 
> - ToddJB


Like I say in the OP, made within the past 30 years or so. Doesn't matter if they're not still in production.

August, you need me to knock the dust off those babies?

I've said it before, but Bob Summerfields saws are up there with any custom sawmaker on American soil.


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## August




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## jmartel

I saw that BadAxe saws that are ready to go are 14% off right now for ValValentine's day if anyone is interested. Those are US made.


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## dyfhid

Yup, would love to know also who the LJ toolmakers are, keep it in the family so to speak.

One maker I have had great luck with, not sure if they are LJ or not, but you don't hear too much about them, is Winsor Saw, out of Colorado. I have one of their carcass saws, personally made for me, and it is the best saw I have ever used. I was at a LN Hand Tool event (Closest I have come to LN tools , and it compared very favorably to the LN offerings.

Another maker I like, but haven't yet had a chance to get any of their wares, is Barr Specialty Tools - they make beautiful, hand forged chair maker's tools and timber framer's tools, among other things. Would love to get my hands on one of their drawknives!


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## bobasaurus

I'd definitely recommend Black Bear Forge, a blacksmith here in Colorado who makes holdfasts, axes, and some hardware. He made me this sweet carving axe head, and I made the handle:



















Here are his holdfasts… very tempting:


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## woodcox

Great thread Red. There are some really talented people out there making the finest tools.


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## ColonelTravis

> Travis, you can see my KC in the OP. Although, mine is heavily modified;-)
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Read through your modification. Never was a fan of the original color, either, I like what you did. May or may not leave the handle, who knows. Yours is definitely a step up.


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## August

Yeah I reorganized my shop now hand planes is catching lots of the dust 
I use them just been busy with power tools lately building this cabinets for our kitchen


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## bobasaurus

Also, Jeremiah Wilding is another Colorado tool maker. He makes fantastic molding planes:










http://www.jwildingplanemaker.com/planes

Very expensive, but they have the best workmanship I've seen on any wooden planes. Tried them out at the last LN tool event in Denver, very fun. Schwartz has an article on them:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/another-great-maker-of-wooden-handplanes

I believe his workshop is hand tool only.


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## rad457

Let's start with this one, thought my Veritas saws were sweet but this baby put a smile on my face and a tear to my eye!


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## 85497

Here is a second shout out to John Switzer of Black Bear Forge, met him at the LN tool event on Portland, OR over the weekend. I bought one of his beautiful holdfasts, can't wait to get home and drill some holes in my workbench ;0)
He took the time to measure each one, to find the correct size to fit my 6" bench top. Told me to send it back and he would make a new one if it didn't work correctly, now that is customer service. 
I also talked with a LN rep about a problem I have with my LN #8. The young lady said to ship it back to them with a note describing the problem (caused by me, not the plane) and they would fix it for free or the most it would cost would be $35. Plus they would ship it back to me for free. Now that is why I have been a loyal customer all these years, their customer service and tools are priceless. I am unable to post photos of all my modern hand tools, but here is one of my hand plane cabinet with my LN, LV and MSB Planes on display:










Here is the inside of my hand tool cabinet with LN chisels (bevel edge and mortising), Adria Tenon and Dovetail saws, Wenzloff half back saw, KC saw and various other items:


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## bigblockyeti

I did well last quarter and almost, almost rewarded myself with the special edition block plane from Bridge City Tool Works, then had a lucid moment and backed out remembering what college is likely to cost for my kids years down the road.


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## terryR

Looks like serious eye candy here!

Already bookmarked a few new-to-me tool makers, so this has been good information sharing!

Here's a lovely combo square that's hiding in my toolchest…


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## terryR

I'm pleased to hear about the above Colorado tool makers. Moving there soon, and want to support the local economy!

Buy stock in LN, fellas! Gonna do what I can to keep them in business because they LOVE what they do!


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## WhoMe

Although I don't have any tools that currently meet the criteria, yet, I'm still going to follow this thread for all the fun and drool worthy tools.
And with the coco woods from Reds LN planes and the wenge woods from Terrys LN planes, I say LN should make those options from the factory….. 
Just a suggestion….


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## byerbyer

Great thread idea, BRK. I've bookmarked a few drool-worthy tools for when that money tree I planted starts bearing fruit…

Here's my Christmas haul. Some LAP books, aVeritas Mortise Guage, Tite Mark Marking Gauge, a David Barron 1:6 guide, and Grammercy's pre-fab Moxon Vise.









I had planned to build a vise with either Benchcrafted or Grammercy's hardware, but a project calling for a slew of dovetails called for that project to get pushed up. It was money wall spent and the cambered front jaw makes for a some crazy strong holding power! 
Cheers


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## lilaminugue

Just great hand tool makers!!!! wishing to got the same


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## CB_Cohick

I was considering the scope of this thread as laid out by Red. I don't know of an example offhand, but Mexico is also in N. America, what is an example of a primo Mexican hand tool maker? I know questionable quality tools come from South of the border, but surely craftsmanship is not limited by the Rio Grande.


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## bigblockyeti

Well, this might be south *American* but I have a Marbles camp axe that has a good head forged in El Salvador and the handle, while I don't know if it's made in north or south American, is very good also with a great feel and proper grain orientation. The edge required less than two minutes to make it shaving sharp and it seems to hold an edge fairly well.


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## lumberjoe

Awesome thread! Found some new tool makers to follow.

I've made a few of my own planes


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## ColonelTravis

> - terryR


I work with a lot of crazy grain/figured wood. Is that LN scraper plane or the low angle really helpful with that stuff? Sometimes I can get by with a higher angled blade on a bench plane, sometimes that simply doesn't work and I need to get the card scraper. Or the orbital sander, which I hate.


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## Handtooler

Wonderful forum entry. I'm tuned in to learn.


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## TheFridge

I'm wondering the same as the colonel terry. How long will she go between sharpening/ burnishing?


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## WillliamMSP

I'm tuned in for the porn.

Planning on picking up a few LV and LN pieces, as budget allows, and hope to contribute in the future.


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## jmartel

I should be receiving a Lie-Nielsen Rabbeting block plane this week. Finally. Ordered it Christmas eve I think and Craftsmanstudio's site said they had 1 left in stock. Turns out that wasn't true and was backordered.


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## terryR

Guys, I haven't used the scraper much…most a collector's piece for me.

But the 62 is for real. Best all-around plane I know of! Although I still cannot predict which plane will always work figured exotics. Sometimes the low angle causes tear out. Sometimes a massive 4 1/2 works best.

edit…hate to admit using my belt sander, but some stuff just cannot be planed. DanK sent some Almond from Ecuador that was too brittle for any handplane to work…


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## ColonelTravis

JMart I think L-N got slammed at Christmas and it messed up their inventory tracker, which is probably an intern looking at stuff around the barn. Ordered an Auriou rasp online and they later emailed me they were out and if I had any questions to call because it was a 3-month wait, so I thought - maybe I'll order a slightly different grain size. I called and ordered a different size and then while I was talking to the guy on the phone, he said - wait a second. He came back and said they found three rasps of my original size in a place they didn't know they were there and grabbed me one. Anyway, I've got that rabbet block and really like it.

I've got two Auriou rasps. 
9 inch Grain 10
12 inch Grain 6

I thought the 10 would be aggressive enough for my kind of shaping. After a few months I thought I'd try something that would take wood off faster. I love both and use them all the time. I don't think a woodworker needs anything below a 6 grain, at that point just get out a saw. But the 6 is awesome for fast shaping and the 10 has ended up being more of a finer shaper, although not too fine. In my picture is a 6" modeller's from Gramercy, which has very fine grain I don't remember how fine. Fine enough is all that matters to me. Also a nice rasp I use a lot. Having made one saw handle, I can now understand why people recommend Gramercy's curved rasp for handles. Probably should get that because I've got more handles to make.

Would love to compare Auriou to Liogier, especially that fancy pants sapphire coating, which I don't think improves cutting just longevity? Wonder if that's true. It sounds so alluring….


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## ToddJB

I hear Auriou and Liogier are fine tools, but aren't they French?

I picked up that same Gramercy modeller. I love it.


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## jmartel

By that same note, the Gramercy rasp (which I also have) is Pakistani. The handle is US made, though.


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## ColonelTravis

Holy poop you are correct! This thread ain't for Frenchy!
Gramercy USA!


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## ToddJB

> By that same note, the Gramercy rasp (which I also have) is Pakistani. The handle is US made, though.
> 
> - jmartel


Ah. That's interesting. Is that true with all Gramercy tools? And I will say the handle is sub-par


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## ColonelTravis

I think just their rasps are made overseas.


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## bobasaurus

Joe and Terry, your plane collections are remarkable. I need to make some more woodies… working on one now. I have that gramercy handle rasp and it's nice, but not quite as fine as an Auriou. Don't know if there are any US makers of hand-stitched rasps.


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## ToddJB

> I think just their rasps are made overseas.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Yeah a quick spot check shows most tools are USA, but the rasps are Pakistan.


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## August




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## August

and this my own kerfmaker i made


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## ColonelTravis

August, I love the stuff you make.


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## BigRedKnothead

Shoot dang….I can barely keep up.

Winsor Saw…...what duh….








-

Travis- the KC saw guy is a pretty good dude. Maybe a little hardheaded though. He knows the #1 complaint about his saws is the RED. But, he won't relent. Wonder how many woodworkers have contemplated the titanium model at twice the price because the the color. I have…lol.


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## bobasaurus

Who is KC saw? I can't find anything on google.


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## WillliamMSP

Knew Concepts.


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## bobasaurus

Ah, acronyms my favorite thing  . Thanks.


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## bobasaurus

August, your kerfmaker is amazing. Wish I had those kinds of machining skills. I guess I'll contribute this picture of a Lie Nielsen No. 4 1/2 (posted before, but I like it enough to whore it again):










And another of a thin shaving off the No. 7 1/2:


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## TheFridge

My babies.

Also have a veritas dual marking gauge (which is the tits) and a Klein electrical knife for general purpose whittling.



















KC fret saw. Worth every penny.










LN dovetail and tenon. Actually sold the tenon yesterday because I haven't used it as much as I though and no tenon saw is good reason to save up for another Summerfield. Also have a couple of wally331s saws I traded a fellow LJ for.


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## bobasaurus

That chisel/marking till is incredible, Fridge. How does the hinging work for the chisel rack? Are there magnets in there too?


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## BigRedKnothead

> I think just their rasps are made overseas.
> 
> - ColonelTravis
> 
> Yeah a quick spot check shows most tools are USA, but the rasps are Pakistan.
> 
> - ToddJB


The rasp stuff had me chuckling. Evidently there aren't guys in the US skilled enough to hand stitch rasps that we can all afford;-) I know, gets confusing when they are offered by companies like LN.



> I was considering the scope of this thread as laid out by Red. I don t know of an example offhand, but Mexico is also in N. America, what is an example of a primo Mexican hand tool maker? I know questionable quality tools come from South of the border, but surely craftsmanship is not limited by the Rio Grande.
> 
> - CB_Cohick


Chris, I realize the forum guidelines are a bit limiting. Perhaps they dance around a philosophy or ideals (treatment of labor and manufacturing quality)...but I believe it is worthwhile.

I left out Mexico on purpose- mostly because of Stanley. In the past few years they reintroduced their Sweetheart line. Much to my dismay, they chose to manufacture those tools in Mexico (and the quality showed). The SW line has been a debacle.

Needless to say, Stanley did it to save a buck, and it shows. But hey, the folks at LN and LV can sleep soundly. Imagine if Stanley with their manufacturing prowess had offered a cheaper alternative, made in the US (like Stanleys of old), anywhere near the quality of Lie Nielsen. They could've put a huge dent in their sales….but they didn't.

The Sweetheart sales sputter. Lie-Nielsen is on constant backorder. The new Stanley doesn't get it.


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## TheFridge

Thanks Bob, it has some small box hinges I had on hand. You can see them in the first pic.

No magnets Bob. Just a threaded a piece of lignum and tapped a hole in the side to make the front stop removeable for future adjustments.


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## BigRedKnothead

Also…..

Auggies photography skills are on par with his machining skills.

Fridge, your LN saw handles are much more figured than mine, and I haz a sad.

Allen's LN 7 1/2 shaving pic is ridonculous.

Welcome Pat, bigblockyeti, lumberjoe….and other LJs whom I have not crossed paths with yet.

Pat3 I heart your shop and tools.


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## lateralus819

Just gonna leave these here. . Wouldn't be without my LN tools. I've a few more chisels I need to pick up but the 1/2" and 3/4" have done nicely.


























Oh and a pic of my boy doing some Sawing.


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## summerfi

I'd like to nominate Bontz Saw Works and Blackburn Tools for the list of preferred links. IMO they are the best custom saw makers in the world today. Their saws are what mine would like to be when they grow up. Ron and Isaac are also very nice guys, and both drop in on LJ from time to time.



















And of course we must have our own LJ Erik Florip (Florip Toolworks) on the list.


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## BigRedKnothead

Good call Bob. Got those added.

End grain buddah:


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## widdle

Hey, how do you guys feel about rockler bench cookies. ? Thought i should ask before i pull the trigger..Are they worth it? Is one enough ? or should i get 3 ?


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## BigRedKnothead

^Lawlz. We don't want no chinese cookies.


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## TheFridge

Red, yours is like lats dovetail saw handle? I thought they were all crazy figured.

Edit: not sure wids


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## jmartel

Blackburn Tools is no longer making saws. They only sell saw kits and saw parts.



> Hey, how do you guys feel about rockler bench cookies. ? Thought i should ask before i pull the trigger..Are they worth it? Is one enough ? or should i get 3 ?
> 
> - widdle


Waste of money, I've found. Don't use them. Got rid of them. Using just plain rubber drawer liner to hold stuff from slipping works better and is cheaper.


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## summerfi

> Blackburn Tools is no longer making saws. They only sell saw kits and saw parts.
> 
> - jmartel


Isaac has *suspended *taking any new saw orders in order to catch up on his 2 year backlog. "When the backlog is cleared, I will continue working on backsaws, albeit on a more limited basis."

http://www.blackburntools.com/blog/suspension-of-new-backsaw-orders/


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## jmartel

I didn't see that blog post. Just saw the original page that said he was suspending taking orders. Thanks for the clarification.


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## August

Thanks colonel 
Thanks red

Fridge I like that till 
I'm no we here near you guys when it corns to saw
But I'll throw done this is is my line up


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## TheFridge

I just got a bit more than a chub


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## 85497

Thanks BRK, I love it too :0)

Here are a few more of my favorites:










And some of the LN, LV and old Stanley planes waiting in line on sharpening day before a project build:


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## jmartel

Here's my small contribution so far.


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## rad457

A Canadian Creation from the shop of Kiefer!








My trusty L.N. 102 with a Hock iron.








A recent addition from L.V. apron plane with the PMV-11 iron.








Could you count them Prairie Dogs from L.V. ?


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## TheFridge

Nice

Put that boy to work lat


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## wormil

I tried to think of something to share but I believe all my tools are too old! I have a Blue Point combo square, that's probably the only US hand tool I'm sure is less than 30 years old. Also have a bunch of Starrett, B&S, and Lufkin calipers, gages, etc. but I'm not sure of the age on any of them.


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## bobasaurus

Andre, why the Hock iron? Is it better than the stock LN?


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## rad457

Allen, Not sure better, a little different, my Mentor loved the Hock irons and stocked them for his classes for the 102 and brass spoke shaves. He also had a little paring knife for D.T. that was made by Hock, have to try and find it.


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## August

hey pat that target in the background was done by a american tool ALSO?


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## August

hey red i know this is not part of the rules but its made in USA by usa machines and usa parts and by a half *********************************** and half filipino does it count?
my thin kerf jig i made


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## ColonelTravis

> A Canadian Creation from the shop of Kiefer!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Andre


Do the holes do anything?


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## jmartel

> hey red i know this is not part of the rules but its made in USA by usa machines and usa parts and by a half *********************************** and half filipino does it count?
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


I wish I had metal working machines.


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## TheFridge

> hey red i know this is not part of the rules but its made in USA by usa machines and usa parts and by a half *********************************** and half filipino does it count?
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III
> 
> I wish I had metal working machines.
> 
> - jmartel


I'd kill for a mill right now. Took me 20-30 min to do this much. Better end mill might help.


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## August

> hey red i know this is not part of the rules but its made in USA by usa machines and usa parts and by a half *********************************** and half filipino does it count?
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III
> 
> I wish I had metal working machines.
> 
> - jmartel
> 
> I d kill for a mill right now. Took me 20-30 min to do this much. Better end mill might help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - TheFridge


what cha makkin bud?


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## WhoMe

Red, I'll have to respectfully disagree on one part of the Stanley sweetheart tool line. IMO, the chisels are the bright spot in that line and many others agree. They are no LN's but with a little work, they are really nice too use.
The planes, yes, Stanley could have done a fair amount better and still kept that price point. But in the same vain, I don't think they were trying to compete with LN or LV and were going for a different market segment. I'm not trying to defend or make excuses for the planes but at least they didn't bring back the bedrock name. That would have been total heresy with the mixed quality of the sw planes. 
BTW, don't look at their "contractor" line, those make the classic Bailey line look like fine jewelery in comparison. I'm not sure I would even use them as boat anchors, I have more respect for the fish than that….


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## WhoMe

> hey red i know this is not part of the rules but its made in USA by usa machines and usa parts and by a half *********************************** and half filipino does it count?


I don't know about anyone else but, that more than qualifies.


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## August

hey all i want to ask there is a jig out there that you buy to sharpen jointer knives
im planning on making one
if you guys have it your way
what material will you guys choose

carbon steel 
aluminum 
brass ?

i wont include stainless steel because thats a pain in the rear to machine.

heres a picture for attention


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## DanKrager

Auggie, I'd use hedge if I needed a wooden one! 

Don't need one because I have a cast iron one that came with the Belsaw Sharp All.

Aluminum would be adequate, brass would be pretty. Steel might be easy to damage the blades if awkwardness happens.

DanK


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## TheFridge

Try to make a bracket for a homemade shooter August.


















I think most I've seen August are made out of wood. I'd think aluminum would be good and easy.


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## August

cool i like to see whens its done

dan can you post your jig ? if you dont mind?


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## TheFridge

Let me throw this thought out there while it's on my mind.

I'd like to see someone make a new quality brace. I've found a dozen braces and almost all wobble horribly. I use the one that wobbles the least. If I had one that worked smooth as butter I'd use my brace a lot more.

Edit: damn internet age. Maybe I should google before I talk


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## rad457

*Do the holes do anything?*

Klaus told me they are for ventilation? So when you are working hard and fast your won't get sweaty hands and slip? Guess he never saw me actually work!


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## rad457

http://www.leevalley.com/en/images/item/woodworking/drilling/50j0501s3.jpg

Lee valley has these?


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## TheFridge

I saw that after I posted


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## bigblockyeti

> Let me throw this thought out there while it s on my mind.
> 
> I d like to see someone make a new quality brace. I ve found a dozen braces and almost all wobble horribly. I use the one that wobbles the least. If I had one that worked smooth as butter I d use my brace a lot more.
> 
> Edit: damn internet age. Maybe I should google before I talk
> 
> - TheFridge


If you're looking for something really fancy, check this out from Bridge City Tool Works:









It is now discontinued but when it was available, the price was $799.00!


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## TheFridge

I wish LN made a brace. More along the lines of what I was thinking.


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## SASmith

> hey all i want to ask there is a jig out there that you buy to sharpen jointer knives
> im planning on making one
> if you guys have it your way
> what material will you guys choose
> 
> carbon steel
> aluminum
> brass ?
> 
> i wont include stainless steel because thats a pain in the rear to machine.
> 
> heres a picture for attention
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


If I had your tools and material I would go brass.
I do not, so I went with plywood.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, I ll have to respectfully disagree on one part of the Stanley sweetheart tool line. IMO, the chisels are the bright spot in that line and many others agree. They are no LN s but with a little work, they are really nice too use.
> - WhoMe


May have a point there bud. The hand planes are just sad though. I've heard more than one account where the handle was bare unfinished wood! Quality control no bueno.



> I wish LN made a brace. More along the lines of what I was thinking.
> 
> - TheFridge


If anyone knows a US maker of braces (besides Bridge City) speak up. Might still have to defer to vintage on those if not. There were a lot of "ok" ones made back in the day. I have a Stanley Yankee 2101. I could tell it was better made right when I picked up. She works like a peach.

LN does have a plow plane that's close, and allegedly a compass plane in the works. Hope I don't have grey hair by the time they come out.


----------



## widdle

Im gonna run down to harbor Frieght…You guys need anything ?


----------



## lateralus819

Compass plane huh? Nice!


----------



## August

I might need to buy one of those jig so can try to modify it.

Anyway here's a picture of me fixing a ar15 for one of our local PD
he went from old school look to a new style 
What I'm measuring is the end cap of the handguard.


----------



## Pezking7p

> Red, I ll have to respectfully disagree on one part of the Stanley sweetheart tool line. IMO, the chisels are the bright spot in that line and many others agree. They are no LN s but with a little work, they are really nice too use.
> 
> - WhoMe


I have a 1/8" SW chisel. The finish and steel seem OK so far, but the chisel is undersized. I can't remember exactly how much but it was over 0.010". I also have a 1/8" PMV-11 chisel from LV, which is dead on 0.125". I'm not disappointed because I now have two different sized chisels, but if I had only the SW, and I needed 1/8", I would be upset.

I'll have to take a family photo this weekend, I saw a LV box on the doorstep this week that I think may be another chisel


----------



## WhoMe

Dan, ill have to measure mine now. As for finish, mine took a while to get rid of the machine marks on the back. But other than that, to me, the seek is good, they hold a edge really well and I like the balance. One day I'll buy a higher quality chisel for comparison. 
But the planes are where Stanley feel down. Wasn't it Mos who went through 3 or 4 before he got a decent one that still needed some work?


----------



## Pezking7p

It didn't take me long to sharpen the 1/8" chisel  I wouldn't recommend shaving with it, though, as you'll only end up sticking yourself, lol.


----------



## mramseyISU

> Red, I ll have to respectfully disagree on one part of the Stanley sweetheart tool line. IMO, the chisels are the bright spot in that line and many others agree. They are no LN s but with a little work, they are really nice too use.
> 
> - WhoMe
> 
> I have a 1/8" SW chisel. The finish and steel seem OK so far, but the chisel is undersized. I can t remember exactly how much but it was over 0.010". I also have a 1/8" PMV-11 chisel from LV, which is dead on 0.125". I m not disappointed because I now have two different sized chisels, but if I had only the SW, and I needed 1/8", I would be upset.
> 
> I ll have to take a family photo this weekend, I saw a LV box on the doorstep this week that I think may be another chisel
> 
> - Pezking7p


That's because they are metric, the 1/8th is actually 3mm. Lee Valley and Lie-Nielson are probably the only places left that you can get a true inch chisel.


----------



## bearkatwood

Hey wait, aren't those Auriou made in France?


----------



## builtinbkyn

Yup. They're handmade in France.


----------



## byerbyer

In honor of Lee Valley offering free shipping today, what's the one thing from the Veritas line you couldn't live without in your kit?


----------



## jmartel

Byer, if you don't already have one, a router plane is a very worthy investment. And the Lee Valley one is the one to go with over LN for this application.


----------



## WhoMe

I would say "one" of every "thing" in their wood working catalog.
it's still one thing… See the quotes…


----------



## byerbyer

^JMart, I have the Large LN router plane. 
I've been very pleased with it so far. The Lee Valley looks more versatile for sure. I've opted for LN over LV for my most recent purchases when I found they sold them through Amazon. That allowed me to use my Amazon points to subsidize my tool habit. I bought the router plane & tapered carcass saw through Amazon and spent less than $100 for the pair. LN only has a few items available on Amazon (block plane; tapered carcass, dovetail,& tenon saws; large shoulder plane; maybe a smoother) typically and currently have nothing available like due to the holidays.

I also use smile.amazon.com so St Jude's get a little bit from my tool habit as well. Win-win.


----------



## rad457

http://www.leevalley.com/en/images/item/Woodworking/Planes/05p7501s1a.jpg

could not resist, free shipping, time to empty the shopping cart!
Amazon.*ca* sucks


----------



## ste6168

> This thread is dedicated to hand tool renaissance we are experiencing in our country. North American hand tool makers are thriving again, and God Bless em!
> 
> Tools posted and discussed herein shall be:
> - Made in North America. Yes, that includes Canadian (Veritas etc)
> - Made in the past 30 years or so
> - Woodworking related
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> 
> I m passionate about the topic because dad was a foundry worker/toolmaker in the 70 s. Back then, wrenches and pliers were the only tools he had the opportunity to make. Hand planes, chisels, and the like were all sent overseas after WWII.
> 
> So, I applaud folks like Thomas Lie-Nielsen, Leonard Lee, Glen Drake, and countless other small-time tool makers for there efforts in bringing tool making back home. Their labor, and their tools, are not cheap. That s just the state of manufacturing in our country. I used to scoff and the prices too. However, when I saved and sold commissions to afford their fine tools, I found they were oh so worth it.
> 
> So bring it on. Bust out your Gramercy, Starretts, Lie-Nielsons and so forth. Ask questions or just post pics for us to drool on.
> 
> The only rule is: Be nice, or be gone.
> 
> The North American Toolmakers we heart:
> https://www.lie-nielsen.com/
> http://www.veritastools.com
> http://www.rmsaws.com/
> http://www.glen-drake.com/
> https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/dept/CGT
> http://www.knewconcepts.com/
> http://www.sterlingtoolworks.com/
> http://blackbearforge.com/
> http://www.barrtools.com/
> http://www.jwildingplanemaker.com/
> http://www.bridgecitytools.com/
> http://www.blackburntools.com/
> http://www.bontzsawworks.net/
> http://floriptoolworks.com/
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Red. What hammer is that in your original post? That an Estwing?


----------



## Pezking7p

Aren't the auriou handles made in the USA? Maybe the rasp blade needs to be blurred out.

Might have to peruse my list on Lee valley.


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, I just put in a small order at LV. I don't think anything other than the Router plane blade was North American made though. Got the featherweight fret saw and some blades with that as well, and a couple Bahco saw files.


----------



## bobasaurus

I'm tempted by the new LV scratch stock, might be time to take the plunge.


----------



## terryR

Allen, I've looked at their scratch stock, too. Easy enough to make one, but not as nice as LV.

Another USA manufacturer that's been around for longer than us…Vaughan and Bushnell. Currently just Vaughan Mfg.

Mostly hammers and pry bars, but real prices. And a 5-generation family-owned business that hasn't taken jobs elsewhere like…Nicholson. Stanley. Crafstman….


----------



## terryR

Looks like this plough plane is US-built, but pretty much un-affordable!

LOL?


----------



## bobasaurus

Damn terry, that plow plane looks nice. Seems like it wouldn't bee too hard for you to make a similar functional one. Seems above my skill set, though.


----------



## knockknock

> In honor of Lee Valley offering free shipping today, what s the one thing from the Veritas line you couldn t live without in your kit?
> 
> - byerbyer


Veritas tools are like potato chips, bet you can't have just one


----------



## walden

Great thread Red!! It made me smile to see that shoulder plane.


----------



## boatz

I love my Blue Spruce marking knives!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> In honor of Lee Valley offering free shipping today, what s the one thing from the Veritas line you couldn t live without in your kit?
> 
> - byerbyer


Byer, of course I prefer Lie-Nielsen, but I confess Veritas has a superior design when it comes to the large router plane and spokeshaves. Why LN/Boggs didn't include the blade adjustment screws on their spokeshave… I'll never know.



> Red. What hammer is that in your original post? That an Estwing?
> 
> - ste6168


Yup, Estwing…. made in 'merica. Still make that model. Got it from…..Lee Valley. lol.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I love my Blue Spruce marking knives.
> 
> - boatz


Blue Spruce does make some fantastic stuff. Had a few beers with Dave this past year. Made me want buy more of his tools.

Terry- I'll add Vaughn and some others I've thought of. Some, (Sauer&Steiner) most of us will never afford….or justify. But it's fun to ogle.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

New toolmakers to me: http://www.walkemooretools.com/


----------



## walden

I used to own the LV large router and sold it for the LN version. I Found my LV router wouldn't hold the blade securely over time. It was as if the steel shaft of the blade body wore out the aluminum collar that holds it in place. I have not had that problem with the LN version.


----------



## CB_Cohick

I've got to admit, that leather handled Estwing hammer is tickling my "want" button. Red did you go with the 12 oz or 16 oz size?


----------



## ste6168

> I ve got to admit, that leather handled Estwing hammer is tickling my "want" button. Red did you go with the 12 oz or 16 oz size?
> 
> - CB_Cohick


No kidding. I've got a larger (24oz I think) Estwing, rubber grip, I use for my general carpentry stuff, I definitely want one also!


----------



## Lsmart

I would like to give a shout to Veritas for PMV-111, I have 4 LV Planes (LA Block, LA Jack, Small Shoulder, Large Shoulder) When I got the large shoulder I splurged for the PMV. After working with A2 for so long the PMV is super fast to sharpen and holds it's edge long time baby. I think it's awesome that they are pushing the materials science as well as the design science.
Zero complaints about any of the Veritas planes (except I wish I could afford more of them) They are fantastic to use and as anyone who has had to deal with them knows LV customer service gets 6 stars out of 5. My 1st large shoulder had a void in the casting, down in the cavity where the adjuster sits. Not anything that would affect performance but when I pay $400 or so for a plane I like it to be perfect. As usual my new plane was on the way as soon as I contacted customer service, prepaid return shipping and two weeks later a note from the head of CS or the VP making sure I was happy with my experience (signed with a pen no less).
Lee Valley/Veritas making me proud to be Canadian.


----------



## Ripthorn

If by American made we are accepting shop made tools from us hacks, here are a few of mine:


----------



## ToddJB

And if by hacks you mean tremendous craftsman, then yes.


----------



## byerbyer

I wish I hacked like you, Ripthorn.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I ve got to admit, that leather handled Estwing hammer is tickling my "want" button. Red did you go with the 12 oz or 16 oz size?
> 
> - CB_Cohick


12 oz for me. The bigger one's too big for woodshop needs imo. She's a peach. Only this is I already noticed some rust, so better get some wax or something on it.

Brian- of course your tools are welcome. No "mass-produced" requirements. You keep it up your gonna be the next Ron Brese anyway. Shoot. Need to add Ron!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Reminds me, there was a household (wifey and I) budget meeting held concerning my year-end bonus. I couldn't get this bugger past the committee. lawl.










I guess we take a stinkin family vacation instead.


----------



## Ripthorn

That spider olive wood he got is amazing! Did you add Konrad Sauer?

I have plans to make a similar smoother in the future. Then again, I also have plans to make about a dozen more infills in the future…


----------



## ColonelTravis

> I used to own the LV large router and sold it for the LN version. I Found my LV router wouldn t hold the blade securely over time. It was as if the steel shaft of the blade body wore out the aluminum collar that holds it in place. I have not had that problem with the LN version.
> 
> - walden


Interesting failure story. Never heard that, I've got the LV. How long did it last for you?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> That spider olive wood he got is amazing! Did you add Konrad Sauer?
> 
> - Ripthorn


Why? His work is hideous…..


----------



## Mosquito

as he says while sporting a tagline lol

I love the K series of panel planes


----------



## BigRedKnothead

*Lumberpunk*- you should be proud of Lee Valley and their Veritas tools. (A separate company as they describe it). Veritas aren't always my first choice, mostly due to asethetic preference, but I can't blame anyone who'd want to fill their shop with their tools. Probably the best value in hand tools out there.

Come to think of it, there's an excellent Rob Lee interview out there where he talks about many of the things I allude to in the original post. If you have some time driving or whatever, listen to this interview….it's very interesting. Rob talks about:
- how the company got started. 
- the obstacles of manufacturing in North America. 
- their Veritas line and how they develop the tools.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/111995/stl-54-greatest-hit-and-a-slight-delay


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## BigRedKnothead

Atta boy Don. I guess we'll count "Made in New York."


----------



## bobasaurus

Just ordered the lee valley winding sticks and router plane fence + 1/4" blade, gotta take advantage of the free shipping. I know you can make your own winding sticks, but I'd rather not screw around with warpage in my garage (which experiences big swings in temperature and humidity). Plus, finding quarter-sawn stock is difficult and about as expensive as just buying the aluminum sticks.


----------



## Iguana

Don and Brian, now you guys are just showing off  Excellent!


----------



## paratrooper34

Excellent thread!!! A great place to post these tools. I have many of them and need to put together a nice "pose" for them.


----------



## rad457

Had to check, Old .125 New .140, Funny how some things are hard to let go of!


----------



## terryR

...was waiting for Don and Brian…


----------



## terryR

Wow, hadn't seen the Sauer Carriage Maker's plane. sweet.

Hate to warn you guys, but not all Starrett is made in the homeland. Bought my wife a hacksaw for cutting meat, and it's chinese. didn't know till too late…


----------



## donwilwol

Very nice Terry!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That's one you made Terry? Daaannnng. Wayne Anderson-ish. Shoot there's another to add.

I remember listening to a woodtalk podcast where they said the jointer is probably the most overrated hand plane (or something like that). I can't relate. I love this plane.


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, the more I use my no. 8 the more I love it. Still needs some tuning, but it's pretty great now. Using it to match plane board edges for the desk top this week.


----------



## DanKrager

I use my 8 as a matter of preference unless the piece or the stroke is shorter than the plane… It's not an LN, though.

DanK


----------



## walden

> I used to own the LV large router and sold it for the LN version. I Found my LV router wouldn t hold the blade securely over time. It was as if the steel shaft of the blade body wore out the aluminum collar that holds it in place. I have not had that problem with the LN version.
> 
> - walden
> 
> Interesting failure story. Never heard that, I ve got the LV. How long did it last for you?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


About five years. I still have many of their other tools and they work great.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dan- of course it doesn't have to be an LN jointer to love it. I may never have sprung for one if I hadn't got it used. Well, knowing what I know now I would have. Now I'm talking in circles again.

Wayne Anderson's…...well, art:


----------



## lateralus819

LN #8. Bit spendy but well worth it. My Bedrock 607 just isn't heavy enough for me.


----------



## LJRay

My first experience with a hand plane was at WIA last year. The fellow at the LN boot was demonstrating a no. 8, looks at me and then puts the plane in my hands and tells me to go ahead and try it. Yeah, I found out quickly I'm going to need some practice…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ray- I've heard it compared to riding a bike. That is, there's a steep learning curve at first….but once you get past that, you'll be cruising. There have been several times I've wanted to share the joy of a freshly sharpened hand plane with visitors in my my shop. I show them how I make wispy shavings, then had tool to them….and they've got the plane jumping all over the place. lol.

I honestly forgot my early struggles. It's second nature for me now. Put the time in and it will be for you too. It's worth it!


----------



## Mosquito

> Wayne Anderson s…...well, art:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I've thought about contacting him, to see if he ever accepts visitors… he's not far from where I live


----------



## bearkatwood

Holy freakin' monkey knuckles! that thing is outstanding. WOW! In a class all its' own.


----------



## jmartel

Gotta be honest, that Wayne Anderson plane is not for me. I don't care for it at all. That Konrad Sauer plane posted earlier though, I'd take a few of them.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, that plane's ridonculous. Not my style either….but I admire the craftsmanship.

If there's such thing as an "affordable" infill, Wayne offers one for about $600. Maybe someday….










http://blog.lostartpress.com/2014/02/11/wayne-andersons-newest-plane-600/


----------



## jmartel

This one of his reminds me of the batmobile (not the current version)


----------



## August

Damn that #8 sure does looks sexy 
Anyway I'm not no where near you guys on wood working
But I must say if you have a fine tools it almost makes you feel that your a finewoodworker
Like how I feel now LOl








This is the last cabinet for the kitchen then doors


----------



## TheFridge

Well August, nothing but a bit of practice bud. You can also rest safely knowing you will slaughter almost all of us if not all in metal working.


----------



## Mosquito

$600 is not bad at all, when you consider what an antique version of an infill goes for. Considering he makes them himself, I wouldn't call $600 unreasonable by any stretch to be honest.


----------



## Ripthorn

Having made several infills myself, $600 is pretty rock bottom for someone who wants to make a living doing it. Even with machinery and CNC's and the like, there is a TON of hand fitting and finishing to be done. It's an incredibly labor intensive process.

I will say that Anderson's stuff is a little too ornate for me. The Brese and Sauer stuff, however, is right up my alley. Nice clean lines and an understated aesthetic, except maybe for some of that wood that Ron Brese uses…


----------



## JayT

I'm another in camp of Anderson's planes being a bit much. I really like Konrad Sauer's stuff.


----------



## mramseyISU

Anybody jump on the Bad Axe Valentines Day sale? I got what is almost exactly what I would have custom ordered for 14% off. In a few days a new 10" dovetail saw with a copper plated back and cherry handle will be in my tool cabinet. The only thing I would have done different if I was ordering it custom would be to go with a walnut handle.


----------



## mramseyISU

double post.


----------



## bobasaurus

Another infill maker I like is Daed Toolworks. Pretty sure he's US-based. Tried these at handworks and I think they were tied with Konrad Sauer and Ron Brese's planes for both beauty and quality of cut.


----------



## waho6o9

Spammer has been reported , later Brox


----------



## CL810

Leave for 9 days and I had over 900 posts in different threads to catch up on. Great new thread Red!


----------



## Hammerthumb

> If by American made we are accepting shop made tools from us hacks, here are a few of mine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Ripthorn


Awesome planes Brian!

Oh yeah, I think I own a couple of those!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Re: Anderson's $600 infills…

I figured that was cheap as one could offer an infill without working for min wage. That price is tempting for me, but it always depends on the person. (if they generate $ from the craft, or how much they'd use an infill).

The whole price if hand tools subject has always intrigued me. Most of use wouldn't scoff at dropping $600 for a dewalt planer….but an INFILL! Lol. Everybody's got their thing.

RamseyISU- I hope some folks did pull the trigger on some Bad Axe saw. Great company, great tools. I'm addicted to fellow LJ Bob Summerfields saws at the present. Btw, I'm a huge ISU Cyclone bball fan.


----------



## MNclone

> Btw, I m a huge ISU Cyclone bball fan.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Based on your user name, I always figured you were a Husker fan. Nice to be wrong… Go Cyclones!


----------



## donwilwol

I think even at $600 he's pretty close to minimum wage. We as hobbiest tend to forget, if you're making a living, there are more cost than actually building the product.


----------



## mramseyISU

> Re: Anderson s $600 infills…
> 
> I figured that was cheap as one could offer an infill without working for min wage. That price is tempting for me, but it always depends on the person. (if they generate $ from the craft, or how much they d use an infill).
> 
> The whole price if hand tools subject has always intrigued me. Most of use wouldn t scoff at dropping $600 for a dewalt planer….but an INFILL! Lol. Everybody s got their thing.
> 
> RamseyISU- I hope some folks did pull the trigger on some Bad Axe saw. Great company, great tools. I m addicted to fellow LJ Bob Summerfields saws at the present. *Btw, I m a huge ISU Cyclone bball fan.*
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


They're having a bit more trouble this year than I expected but with a new coach you'll have that.

Back on topic now. I can't wait for my new saw to show up.


----------



## JayT

Totally agree that $600 is very reasonable for the work involved in an infill.

Oh and Rock Chalk, Jayhawk!

That is all.


----------



## mramseyISU

> Totally agree that $600 is very reasonable for the work involved in an infill.
> 
> *Oh and Rock Chalk, Jayhawk!*
> 
> That is all.
> 
> - JayT


I don't need that kind of negativity in my life.


----------



## byerbyer

I'm just gonna leave this right here…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ha, I opened the door for college bball there. All I can say is….big 12 basketball is as good as its ever been. And, having a son made me love the game again.

I wonder how many pine box derby cars have been shaped by Gramercy rasps and Lie-Nielson spokeshaves;-)


----------



## MNclone

That is fantastic. She does not appear to have shop appropriate footwear on though.


----------



## TheFridge

Shavings sticking to her feet is awesome sauce.


----------



## sepeck

> Red, I ll have to respectfully disagree on one part of the Stanley sweetheart tool line. IMO, the chisels are the bright spot in that line and many others agree. They are no LN s but with a little work, they are really nice too use.
> - WhoMe
> 
> May have a point there bud. The hand planes are just sad though. I ve heard more than one account where the handle was bare unfinished wood! Quality control no bueno.


I got a Stanley SweetHeart #4 plane for a present and the handle is definitely finished. Out of the box I was able to plane with it, maybe I was lucky or maybe they addressed quality control. The thought of the Veritas Plane's is nice but not currently in the budget for my hobby. Now that I am finally getting the time to clean and re-organize my shop to better suit making things I hope to have some projects with a greater focus on hand tools.


----------



## mramseyISU

> Ha, I opened the door for college bball there. All I can say is….big 12 basketball is as good as its ever been. And, having a son made me love the game again.
> 
> I wonder how many pine box derby cars have been shaped by Gramercy rasps and Lie-Nielson spokeshaves;-)
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


My kids and I are building cars right now actually. It's my oldest sons 3 car and my youngest ones first car. It's my favorite time of the year.


----------



## LJRay

> Red, I ll have to respectfully disagree on one part of the Stanley sweetheart tool line. IMO, the chisels are the bright spot in that line and many others agree. They are no LN s but with a little work, they are really nice too use.
> - WhoMe
> 
> May have a point there bud. The hand planes are just sad though. I ve heard more than one account where the handle was bare unfinished wood! Quality control no bueno.
> 
> I got a Stanley SweetHeart #4 plane for a present and the handle is definitely finished. Out of the box I was able to plane with it, maybe I was lucky or maybe they addressed quality control. The thought of the Veritas Plane s is nice but not currently in the budget for my hobby. Now that I am finally getting the time to clean and re-organize my shop to better suit making things I hope to have some projects with a greater focus on hand tools.
> 
> - sepeck


Maybe the unfinished planes were from a Friday afternoon shift…


----------



## rad457

Hey if we can get back to the Tools? Look what showed up at my door today, could've 
used them last week!


----------



## DLK

Those look nice, who made them?


----------



## terryR

Veritas. And a useful little rabbet plane. I have the middle size, and used it yesterday to level a lamb's tongue on a saw tote.


----------



## terryR

pretty sure this box was made in Maine?


----------



## byerbyer

Cue the drooling, Terry.


----------



## theoldfart

Pretty box, but only has box joints! Send it back and ask for something better built. 

Andre', cute shoulder planes.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Terry, Terry, Terry…....bust that beauty out of its box already.

I should have mentioned my Veritas shooter when we were talking about our fav Veritas. It works great….

but I still want an LN no 51. That might make me an LN collector though.


----------



## terryR

The box was secured shut with a dozen phillips head screws…3 didn't match the others.

Red, 51 has only been outta that box ONCE!


----------



## lateralus819

I have two Veritas shooters. Oops. Lol.


----------



## TheFridge

One day


----------



## jmartel

> I have two Veritas shooters. Oops. Lol.
> 
> - lateralus819


I have a need for a Veritas shooter, and take donations.


----------



## lateralus819

The first one the nub for detaining the handle crumbled off. They made it sound like it was my fault and maybe it was. Seems like a poor design.

I think it could be fixed, I only used it a couple times.


----------



## jmartel

Things like that can be fixed, or a hotdog of sorts could be fitted, even. Did they send you a new one? What would you want for it?


----------



## lateralus819

I feel like they should have designed it kind of like the Sargent pivoting knobs, with multiple detent locations instead of just a fragile nub like they do. I'm sure they have their reasons.

They did. They had requested it back but I never received a postage stamp like they said and I just left it under the bench and forgot about it. I don't use the other one much either because I didn't feel like it worked too well, until Bobosaurus posted a question on the blade. Turns out it just takes a bit longer to sharpen those blades.

I felt guilty thinking about selling it lol.


----------



## TheFridge

Hello. My name is Fridge. I don't have have a shooter and I give good handys…


----------



## lateralus819

> Hello. My name is Fridge. I don t have have a shooter and I give good handys…
> 
> - TheFridge


Lol. I made a nice 45 miter shooter. My LN #8 works like a friggin dream on that thing. Just so much more mass so it's far less effort. I do admit I did think of selling the good one. I just couldn't bring myself too. I want to experiment with the blade and see if my mind changes. I just don't like only having two options for the handle position.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Hehe. I doubt LV could resell it now. Might as well hook someone up Lat.

Several of us bought them on a Cyber Monday sale two years ago. Good price….otherwise I never would've cheated on Thomas:


----------



## ColonelTravis

Just started making a shooter inspired by JayT. Wish I could remember how to embed projects, maybe someone can educate me again. Also inspired by scottmeekwoodworks.com, which I wouldn't have known about without this thread. Thanks Red!


----------



## lateralus819

I don't think it was a matter of reselling Dan. Probably either not wanting it on the market or R and D to see what went wrong? Not sure either way.

But I can attest to their customer service. Only took a day or two to get a new one. Just had to email some pictures of the damage and I had a new one in my hands.


----------



## JayT

I don't have a Veritas or Lie Nielsen shooter. I'll just have to suffer along with this one.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Yeah man - there it is! Started working on a pine prototype today so I don't screw up the chunk of mesquite for the real thing. When I went to the scottmeekwoodworks.com site I noticed he'd used mesquite for a smoother. It's a very stable wood but with all the crazy grain I wasn't sure if it would be suited for a plane. I feel vindicated now.


----------



## mramseyISU

The mail man brought me a birthday present a couple days early.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Oh my. Purty.


----------



## Ripthorn

Col. Travis, my one recommendation is to use precision ground steel, it will save you so much time later one. If you want to know how I know, look at my first infill shoulder plane blog…


----------



## jmartel

Jay,

What angles did you set the frog to? Cutting angle and skew angle. And did you just attach it directly to the wood infill? Or did you put in threaded inserts to bolt it to?


----------



## DLK

> Jay,
> 
> What angles did you set the frog to? Cutting angle and skew angle. And did you just attach it directly to the wood infill? Or did you put in threaded inserts to bolt it to?
> 
> - jmartel


Good questions.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Col. Travis, my one recommendation is to use precision ground steel, it will save you so much time later one. If you want to know how I know, look at my first infill shoulder plane blog…
> 
> - Ripthorn


Thanks, exactly what I did. Your build-a-longs are helpful. I saw where you said peening screws doesn't come out as nice as with rod, which I didn't know since I've never done either. I've been going back and forth about which way to go on that. Using rod does take the threading step out.


----------



## Ripthorn

> Thanks, exactly what I did. Your build-a-longs are helpful. I saw where you said peening screws doesn t come out as nice as with rod, which I didn t know since I ve never done either. I ve been going back and forth about which way to go on that. Using rod does take the threading step out.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


With something like that shooter, I would recommend threading, because the wider the span, the more likely you are to screw up through rivets. However, what you could do is heavily countersink the holes and use flat head screws as a design element, just make sure they sit slightly below the surface. I really like this look, but it is much more modern and less classic.


----------



## chrisstef

dropping in for the college hoops war …. 4 rings … jus sayin …


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Jay,
> 
> What angles did you set the frog to? Cutting angle and skew angle. And did you just attach it directly to the wood infill? Or did you put in threaded inserts to bolt it to?
> 
> - jmartel
> 
> Good questions.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Also interested to know. I'd thought about going directly to the wood but since I had a full transitional plane to take apart, I got the long oval brace or whatever it's called, and cut out just the part that the frog sat on and ground it flat, thinking I could attach it to the wood and then the frog to that. Reason for this, and maybe it's overkill and/or the wrong reason, but that's how the transition frog was set up and I wondered about the stability of the frog by itself in the wood vs. frog on base? It's just shaving end grain, not like you're plowing through ironwood. It's probably overkill if I do that.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Oh man I'm an idiot. You did rivets through the entire steel, that went over my head. Yeah I'll stick with screws!


----------



## bobasaurus

> I feel like they should have designed it kind of like the Sargent pivoting knobs, with multiple detent locations instead of just a fragile nub like they do. I m sure they have their reasons.
> 
> They did. They had requested it back but I never received a postage stamp like they said and I just left it under the bench and forgot about it. I don t use the other one much either because I didn t feel like it worked too well, until Bobosaurus posted a question on the blade. Turns out it just takes a bit longer to sharpen those blades.
> 
> I felt guilty thinking about selling it lol.
> 
> - lateralus819


Glad to help with my igonrance, lat. It was an interesting find, amazing how resistant PM-V11 is to shapton stones.


----------



## bobasaurus

Ramsey, that saw is very nice. I'm starting to lust after all these nice hand saws… not good for my wallet.

Jay, your shooter is among the best hand-made planes I've ever seen.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Congrats on a Bad Axe or any of the other sweet ol' Americana tools being made out there. The "vintage" tools of today will eventually wear out and fade away. This occurred to me during talks about LN making a compass plane. There aren't a ton of compass planes out there to begin with…and they're not the most durable buggers. Somebody needs to make some if my grandkids want to plane a compass one day….lol.

Shop-made shooters are for pimps.

Another cool vid. Some shared clips from the LN no51 video, but Thomas gives a narrative and interesting details into their toolmaking process. Worth your time.


----------



## JayT

> Jay,
> 
> What angles did you set the frog to? Cutting angle and skew angle. And did you just attach it directly to the wood infill? Or did you put in threaded inserts to bolt it to?
> 
> - jmartel


45 degree bed to match the tranny frog. 20 degree skew. That ends up with ~40 degree attack angle.

Frog is screwed directly to the wood. Thought about inserts, but figured long screws would hold just fine. It's not like the frog will ever get adjusted. Haven't had any issues, yet


----------



## terryR

Not likely to have issues IMO.
Jay's shooter is solid.










why do ya think my 51 is still in the box?


----------



## summerfi

Nice video Red. It's great to see companies doing this kind of work in the U.S of A.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Agreed Bob. I just love that stuff. Makes a guy realize why good tools are expensive. And why you need to raise your prices….lawlz.

Stef- we weren't talking about the best Girls bball program.

On the shooters. Sometimes I feel like Veritas over-engineers stuff….but a lower angle sure makes sense for a shooter (end grain). Those Canucks are onto something there.

Not that a LN 51 or any shooter with 45 degree frog won't work fine…. it just has to be extra sharp.


----------



## chrisstef

Thats a good thing red. I dunno if a picture of 9 rings would fit on the screen.

I need a dedicated shooter. And a bunch of money. Im diggin the thread.


----------



## CL810

Ok, just to provide a heretical point of view…..

51's are overrated for us hobbyists. We can be well served with this set up










Gasp!! Ya, I know, but a low angle 62 and the right combination of shooting boards will serve you well


----------



## bobasaurus

That is a nice-looking miter shooter. I might have to make one too.


----------



## jmartel

Sure, a low angle plane shoots just fine. But having tried out a Veritas plane at a booth once, holy crap it's no comparison. Buttery smooth shaving. Like, about as much effort as using a deli slicer.


----------



## CL810

I have the Veritas 51 (it's not for sale) so I understand. But from a priories point of view I would recommend a 62 first.


----------



## DanKrager

I wish you'd keep talkin' Clayton. I was about to start wanting a 51/52 combo again…

I have half of what you're showing there, and the other half is around here someplace…just have to expose it.

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> 51 s are overrated for us hobbyists. We can be well served with this set up
> 
> - CL810


I was thinking about that Andy. I used my LN 62 as a shooter for years. The dedicated shooter takes it up a notch…but a guy can certainly get by with a low-angle jack.

Even further, I sometimes wonder who else is using these tools besides hobbyists and small-time custom makers. This past week I got hooked up with the shop foreman of a huge custom cabinet shop in our area. He gave me a tour. The place was massive; a warehouse full of lumber, sheet goods, CNC machines, 36" wide drum sanders…

Their work is mostly all custom. No spec stuff. We talked about all sorts of stuff, but the thing that made me chuckle was that he'd never heard of Lie-Nielson, Veritas, or even Festool!


----------



## jmartel

I use a low angle smoother, not even the low angle jack. But, it works for now.

For a cabinet shop, I can see them not really paying attention to hand tool makers or even festool. No need for festool when a CNC machine does it all for you.


----------



## TheFridge

Friend of mines work. Stair work is his bread and butter. Huge festool lover.


----------



## CL810

Fridge, your friend possesses Kung fu powers.


----------



## TheFridge

No lie. He was really proud of that one. I thought the edges looked a little thin but this dude has been building grand stairways and such for years.

He's a fair hand at carving too. I believe this was the last and smallest pieces of a baptismal font for a church. I need to get pics of the rest. Had about 2' turned dome on one of the biggest pieces. 









His main job at the moment is restoring the first governors mansion in Opelousas, LA. From timber framing to rebuilding old sash(?) windows to rebuilding 10' door frames and making molding for whatever.

Huge hand tool guy who has helped me out a lot.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^That's what I'm sayin. The quality American hand tool market is primarily hobbyists, or the small-time custom guys it seems.

I gotta believe even the in a huge custom cabinet shop could find use for a quality LA block plane. They're still working wood. Makes me want to go show them some of my hybrid ways;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

How about making gauges? If you're wondering about the gauge in the OP, it's a Les Outils. 









Small-time Canadian maker, and that tool is a peach. Like Benchcrafted and others, they switched to that crazy Dymondwood stuff. Ya, not 'el naturelle' but it kinda looks like rosewood, And the stuff is as stable as it gets.










Never tried a Titemark. The Veritas wheel gauge is a good value….. but I prefer more surface on a gauge to reference from. Also, imo the little fingernail cutters are the only way to go.










I've yet to use a pin style that worked worth a darn. So ya, I recommend any of their "slitting gauge" models.

Whattchoo like?


----------



## WhoMe

Ask you guys with such drool worthy tools. I'm so green with envy it is ridiculous.

Jay, question on your shooter. How does the weight compare to a ln or lv shooter.
And for those that have the dedicated shooters, I'm assuming the mass makes it easier to use.


----------



## TheFridge

Veritas dual marking gauge. I know what you mean about more surface but it serves it's purpose well.

Just ordered the veritas flat and round spokeshaves. Had a chance to play with the flat yesterday and daddy likes. I have an old record 151 that works sufficiently but needs a new cap and screw.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks for that Red, I've been looking for a decent modern cutting gauge, but haven't wanted to pull the trigger on one of those "Crown" ones


----------



## bearkatwood

Shoes in the shop is my rule! looks like she is having fun though, so of course it slides.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mos- course I got the deluxe gauge. Not sure the extra brass is worth it (never use the included pins). The reg cutting gauge is worth the dough imo.

I also like the Blue Spruce design. Lots of reference area there. 









Of course marking gauges can be decent shopmade tools.


----------



## Pezking7p




----------



## ToddJB

I'm partial to (very) small batch runs of marking gauges


----------



## rad457

*I'm partial to (very) small batch runs of marking gauges*
That is a sweet looking gauge! Think I have some brass that would like to resemble something like that!


----------



## chrisstef

Id love, love , love for someone to recreate this gem.


----------



## JayT

> Jay, question on your shooter. How does the weight compare to a ln or lv shooter.
> And for those that have the dedicated shooters, I m assuming the mass makes it easier to use.
> 
> - WhoMe


You are correct. More mass = easier shooting

Veritas shooter is listed at 7-3/4lbs, LN at "just over 9lbs". Pretty sure the ones I made are heavier than the commercial ones, but didn't weigh them to know for sure. The one sent to Terry is probably over 10lbs and the one I kept is just a bit lighter. I do know that the shipping weight to Terry of the plane, shooting board, packing material and protective box of 3/8 OSB was over 25lbs.

Additionally, the center of mass of mine is much lower, due to the thicker steel on the bottom. That makes them easier to control and less likely to tip.



> On the shooters. Sometimes I feel like Veritas over-engineers stuff….but a lower angle sure makes sense for a shooter (end grain).
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Lower angle does make sense on end grain for sure. Veritas lists their plane at 12 degree bed angle and 25 degree bevel, so it's a few degrees lower than the 45 degree bevel down approach that I used and is also on the LN and Stanley planes. The 20 degree skew does lower the effective attack angle to about 35 degrees for the Veritas and around 40 degrees for the others.

The original plan was to do a 40 degree bed angle and chisel out an angled bed on the infill for the transitional frog to sit on, which would have ended up very close to the Veritas geometry, just in a bevel down configuration. Ran into a few problems, though. First was that the infill would have had to be quite a bit thinner to allow for the extra bed length of the shallower angle. Combine that with how deep the trough for the depth adjusting wheel would have to have been and it just wasn't looking real promising. There was also the issue of trying to get an accurate compound miter cut at those angles, since the CMS doesn't go that far. Decided to leave well enough alone and use the 45 degree bed so I could be sure to finish for the plane swap. If I ever decide to build another one (big IF at this point) I would try and make a shallower angle work.


----------



## JayT

Stef, that beader is so sweet. If someone could fab a blade, I don't think the rest of it would be that hard to make at all. Anyone up for trying to replicate the blade? (Looking at you, Terry)


----------



## TheFridge

That thing is sweet. Might give something similar a go after I finish 90% of my 90% done projects. I need something for rounding edges. Something like this might fit the bill.

Would something like this be ideal for rounding edges?


----------



## terryR

Blade looks possible. Hardest part would be scoring files of different diameters. I have three.
Need August to machine the housing.

A starting price of $290 sound about right?


----------



## terryR

Fridge, what sort of rounded profile are you hoping for?

BTW, I'm pretty sure that 90% of my projects in progress are 90% complete. So, what's yer rush, buddy? The way I see it, when you get caught up with your to-do list, you've outlived your usefulness.


----------



## summerfi

I like that beader also. The blade looks fairly simple to make. Some thicker saw plate steel should work great. The housing would be the difficult part I think.


----------



## jmartel

Terry, the housing looks like wood, to me.


----------



## summerfi

Pretty sure its iron, but you might be able to make one out of a hard wood. I would make the housing and handles in one piece if they were wood. Here's a link to the patent.
http://www.datamp.org/patents/displayPatent.php?id=12194


----------



## Ripthorn

On that beader housing, what are you guys thinking is the difficulty? Granted, I have machinery that is not common in a typical woodshop, but looking at the housing it looks pretty simple. Bore some appropriately sized round stock, drill and tap a hole in the center, mill flats on two sides, drill and tap the two sides for handles, and mill out the opening for the chosen cutting edge. Is there something I'm missing? Just curious, really. Now that I have my mill really up and running, I'm having a lot of fun making stuff with it. I have some plans for some more infill planes this year, hoping to go with a Norris 27 style, a panel plane, maybe a couple shoulders, and a small smoother or two.


----------



## summerfi

I don't think it's that hard, Brian, just difficult to do for someone without a mill or milling experience.


----------



## jmartel

These photos make me think it's wood.










The lower raised circular area on the bottom looks to be part of the same piece as the sides which is definitely wood. Doesn't look like an insert.










I can't see any sort of line or any difference in color in the cut out. Looks to me like solid wood.

Might be beneficial to use a washer or something underneath the cutter, but I think it's wood.

Could be wrong though. This is speculation based off of low quality craigslist photos.


----------



## Ripthorn

It could be made out of a good hardwood. Cut out the disk with a hole saw, use the center hole for the screw to attach the blade. Use a forstner for the center recess, flatten sides with a belt sander, hand plane, whatever, then chop out or saw out the opening. Fine tune with your beautiful, late model north American made chisels


----------



## chrisstef

So now that ive brought it to the table, I get to test out the first batch of production you guys make?? Sweet.


----------



## summerfi

I guess you're right jmart. Based on the grain pattern the body and handles appear to be one piece. Who's going to make one first?

Edit: Stef, you put up the money and we'll go into full large scale production. LN won't have nuthin' on us.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I m partial to (very) small batch runs of marking gauges
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - ToddJB


^Hack.


----------



## DanKrager

I haven't looked at the patent data for that beader tool, but my observation is that there is a round metal insert in the otherwise wooden handles and center body. It is like a shoulder bolt that receives the cutting plate and nut. Interesting why the rings on the wood back though. 
I think the project would be fairly easy, both wood and metal. Perhaps the most difficult part would be the blade layout. 
I have an old hack saw blade (heavy reciprocal type) that would make several of these cutters. Later this week, I may try to work out the pattern for the blade. It fits the process of making scroll saw patterns from a picture.
Brass knurled nuts are cheap, but not the old style. Lamp finials come pretty close in form.
DanK


----------



## PAchemist

Here is some additional information (at Lee Valley) on this beading tool (type 1) and an improved version (type 2).

http://www.leevalley.com/en/newsletters/Woodworking/6/6/patents.pdf


----------



## BigRedKnothead

This is curly stuff is the most difficult walnut I've had to plane. Had the bring out the big guns. LN with 55 degree frog, and the LJ JayT smoother.


----------



## bobasaurus

Curly walnut is a huge chore to plane. Well done, Red. I have to plane some less-curly-but-still-annoying walnut soon for smoothing my table legs. How steep is the JayT smoother? Looks like a nice ash blade.


----------



## bearkatwood

Choice job Red, looks smoooooth 
That beader has a stupid simple design, I love it. Looks like it would make a fun build.
"Bead me up Scotty"


----------



## JayT

> How steep is the JayT smoother? Looks like a nice ash blade.
> 
> - bobasaurus


60 degrees, here's the project post. You are correct about the Nice Ash blade.



My first attempt at building a plane. They're not real pretty and I'd be a bit ashamed of them as a first attempt if they didn't work well.


----------



## bobasaurus

Nice, an angle that steep should plane any kind of figure. I need to make one.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Ditto on acquiring a steep angle smoother. Up to my eyeballs in crazy grain lumber.


----------



## donwilwol

Its not pretty, but it works well


----------



## August

red that Lie-Nielsons
on the top right area how does that help you on your work?
it seems like that will help me on what im doing with kitchen build im doing?
i do alot of glue up for my veneer work


----------



## ColonelTravis

My entry in the Not-Pretty-But-Made-In-A-North-American-Garage department. Finished filing an edge float and a side float. No handles yet. Was it worth the approximate $120 savings bypassing L-N? For me, yes. However, my advice if anyone wants to try this - if you'd rather buy them, you have my blessing. Definitely not the most unappealing job I've ever done in my life, and I like the satisfaction of knowing I finished what I started. On the other hand, I'm never doing this again. They're ugly but they work. Haven't tried it in an actual molding plane build but I did with a sample piece, they remove wood just fine, which is all I care about. A few years ago I was in a restaurant in Great Britain and I saw a guy with teeth that looked like a bat cave. That didn't prevent him from eating.


----------



## Mosquito

> A few years ago I was in a restaurant in Great Britain and I saw a guy with teeth that looked like a bat cave. That didn t prevent him from eating.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


LOL I take the same approach to refiling teeth on a saw too :-D

Also, Having made an edge float, I agree with your assessment.


----------



## donwilwol

> Was it worth the approximate $120 savings bypassing L-N?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


That's what I was gping for. No to get enopugh motivation to finish!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> red that Lie-Nielsons
> on the top right area how does that help you on your work?
> it seems like that will help me on what im doing with kitchen build im doing?
> i do alot of glue up for my veneer work
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Auggie, you talking about the rabbet plane up there? It was just left out from fitting the tenons before smoothing the legs. Interwebz pic:


----------



## jmartel

Probably going to go to a LN hand tool event this weekend. I'll see if I can remember to grab some photos of their stuff and the other makers there for all of you clowns.


----------



## Handtooler

JMartel, Gonna make us drool on our keyboards, huh>


----------



## benchbuilder

Hi Don W, I like that little smoother. Is that frog from a #35 or smaller?


----------



## mramseyISU

> A few years ago I was in a restaurant in Great Britain and I saw a guy with teeth that looked like a bat cave. That didn t prevent him from eating.
> - ColonelTravis


I'm really glad I'm the first one in the office as hard as I laughed at that.


----------



## terryR

CT, looks like a ton of work, but glad they are workers!
It's very satisfying to create difficult items.


----------



## donwilwol

> Hi Don W, I like that little smoother. Is that frog from a #35 or smaller?
> 
> - benchbuilder


Yes it was a Transitional frog.


----------



## bearkatwood

A transitional frog? Oh the fun we could have with that. 
Jmartel, would love to see pics of the event, wish I was there.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Interesting Veritas Small Plow Plane news. I ordered one in Jan. The website said at the ship time would be delayed for a couple weeks. Later it said it wouldn't be shipped until March. Today I checked my order status and the update page showed two plow planes. One said, "No Status Available." The other said, "Reserved." I emailed and asked what that meant and they said this:



> Thank you for your inquiry. Please accept our apologies for the confusion on your Order, and the delay in providing your Plane to you . You should be receiving a letter from us soon regarding your purchase, however we can go ahead and tell you in advance here.
> 
> We're actually in the midst of upgrading our Small Plow Planes, and will be providing you an upgraded model at no additional cost. These upgrades specifically are two manufacturing changes that will further refine and expand the Planes capabilities. The first is a modified depth stop clamp, which will hold the depth stop skate more securely than in previous versions. The second, and more significant change, is a re-milling of the skate, to accommodate our newly released Beading Blades (05P52.xx)!
> 
> These new blades are available in 1/8", 3/16" and ¼" bead diameters, with a 1/16" groove or landing on either side. Additional details can be found on our website, when they become available mid-march, at the same time as your Plow Plane.


----------



## bobasaurus

That's really interesting news, Travis. I'm tempted to get one as well.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Yeah can't wait to see what it looks like. They didn't send a photo, unfortunately.


----------



## punkin611

> This thread is dedicated to hand tool renaissance we are experiencing in our country. North American hand tool makers are thriving again, and God Bless em!
> 
> Tools posted and discussed herein shall be:
> - Made in North America. Yes, that includes Canadian (Veritas etc)
> - Made in the past 30 years or so
> - Woodworking related
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> 
> I m passionate about the topic because dad was a foundry worker/toolmaker in the 70 s. Back then, wrenches and pliers were the only tools he had the opportunity to make. Hand planes, chisels, and the like were all sent overseas after WWII.
> 
> So, I applaud folks like Thomas Lie-Nielsen, Leonard Lee, Glen Drake, and countless other small-time tool makers for there efforts in bringing tool making back home. Their labor, and their tools, are not cheap. That s just the state of manufacturing in our country. I used to scoff and the prices too. However, when I saved and sold commissions to afford their fine tools, I found they were oh so worth it.
> 
> So bring it on. Bust out your Gramercy, Starretts, Lie-Nielsons and so forth. Ask questions or just post pics for us to drool on.
> 
> The only rule is: Be nice, or be gone.
> 
> The North American Toolmakers we heart:
> https://www.lie-nielsen.com/
> http://www.veritastools.com
> http://www.rmsaws.com/
> http://www.glen-drake.com/
> https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/dept/CGT
> http://www.knewconcepts.com/
> http://www.sterlingtoolworks.com/
> http://blackbearforge.com/
> http://www.barrtools.com/
> http://www.jwildingplanemaker.com/
> http://www.bridgecitytools.com/
> http://www.blackburntools.com/
> http://www.bontzsawworks.net/
> http://floriptoolworks.com/
> http://www.vaughanmfg.com/
> http://www.daedtoolworks.com/
> http://sauerandsteiner.blogspot.com/
> http://scottmeekwoodworks.com/
> http://calebjameschairmaker.com/
> http://www.walkemooretools.com/
> http://www.breseplane.com/
> http://www.andersonplanes.com/
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


----------



## punkin611

Hi all, just joined up I too am interested in American made tools. My friend Rob is a saw maker of the first water. See if any makers you know go to such lengths as this; only maker to cryotemper blades, only one to hammer tension blades (like old time saws), only one I know to put ss. bushing in saw blade where it connects to handle ( you can take the bolts out and still saw!) also one of few to put on a folded back and taper ground blade. he has made me two saws one a 15tpi tendon saw and a dove tail 16tpi saw his web site is www.alamotoolworks.com. They are priced right I sent him some H.Rosewood for the handles. Plus I only wish I could sharpen a saw half as well as he can I will try to post a pic of them.


----------



## putty

Why don't you buy them on Ebay Spamster?


----------



## lateralus819

I'll take one tendon saw please!


----------



## bobasaurus

I sawed a tendon once. Required a trip to the hospital for surgery. Wouldn't recommend, 0/10.


----------



## punkin611

> Why don t you buy them on Ebay Spamster?
> 
> - putty


You know, I thought long and hard before I posted about his saws because I was afraid of a smart as- like you but, I did it any way. If you ever saw one of his saws you would NEVER said what you did. He is sold out of most the time so he doesn't need the biz. I like them so much as I have been working wood for 60+yrs. I think I qualify as an expert. I have used many back saws- antique Disstons and some on the newer makers. Let me ask you what would you if you put a kink in your new saw? I know what you would have to do-JUNK it. A folded back saw that is put on with tension can be straighten (or if kinked just replace blade only) but a glued in saw blade with a molded handle if kinked is toast. I thought this was the place to post about great American made woodworking tools? Sorry if my post was out of line.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ Not a big deal punkin. If your friend makes and sells saws….cool! Tell us what think about them. Some have seen the parts on ebay.

You have to understand we do get a fair amount of spammers on this site. And, being your first two posts…. it does get suspicious.


----------



## punkin611

I know that was suspicious being my first post and all but I was so happy to find a site that discussed working with hand tools and listed all the makers they wanted to discuss I just wanted to add one. I look forward learning and to being a productive member of this site


----------



## ToddJB

Welcome punkin


----------



## jmartel

Punkin, welcome, if I may make a suggestion to your friend:

He'd be able to get a lot more money for his saws if he shaped the handles of the saws more. If you look at saw makers like Bob (www.rmsaws.com), Bad Axe, Bontz, Blackburn Tools, etc. They all have more shaped handles. They are more comfortable to hold/use, and more decorative as well.

Perhaps he could make it an optional upgrade so that people who want the cheaper versions can still get them.

Luckily it seems as though there are a lot of boutique tool makers out there now. Certainly there's not a lack of options anymore like 20 years ago.


----------



## punkin611

> Welcome punkin
> 
> - ToddJB


Thanks ToddJB


----------



## rad457

> Probably going to go to a LN hand tool event this weekend. I ll see if I can remember to grab some photos of their stuff and the other makers there for all of you clowns.
> 
> - jmartel


Went to one in Vancouver few years back, Had a hard time explaining the box of planes that arrived a few weeks later and of course that $85 US tiny hammer! (I told her I thought it was only $35, must of misread the price tag!) The 60 1/2 Rabbit plane is still my favorite from that order.


----------



## lateralus819

I wish LN stocked tools at their events. I had to wait a while for my blade screwdriver. Fun stuff though being able to try out all their tools. We have one coming up in April.


----------



## putty

You have to understand we do get a fair amount of spammers on this site. And, being your first two posts…. it does get suspicious.

Especially when you include a link to the website on your first post. (it did look suspicious) Post some pics of your saws!


----------



## punkin611

> Punkin, welcome, if I may make a suggestion to your friend:
> 
> He d be able to get a lot more money for his saws if he shaped the handles of the saws more. If you look at saw makers like Bob (www.rmsaws.com), Bad Axe, Bontz, Blackburn Tools, etc. They all have more shaped handles. They are more comfortable to hold/use, and more decorative as well.
> 
> Perhaps he could make it an optional upgrade so that people who want the cheaper versions can still get them.
> 
> Luckily it seems as though there are a lot of boutique tool makers out there now. Certainly there s not a lack of options anymore like 20 years ago.
> 
> - jmartel


I don't want to put words in Rob's mouth as I am not a shill for him only a satisfied user. I do know he can make any style handle as I sent him a old handle ( and some H. rosewood to make it out of) from another saw. He made a copy of it to use on my saws. The handles are also interchangeable. Please I have tooted enough about his saws. Contact him @ his web site I won't say any more about subject.


----------



## JADobson

> Interesting Veritas Small Plow Plane news. I ordered one in Jan. The website said at the ship time would be delayed for a couple weeks. Later it said it wouldn t be shipped until March. Today I checked my order status and the update page showed two plow planes. One said, "No Status Available." The other said, "Reserved." I emailed and asked what that meant and they said this:
> 
> Thank you for your inquiry. Please accept our apologies for the confusion on your Order, and the delay in providing your Plane to you . You should be receiving a letter from us soon regarding your purchase, however we can go ahead and tell you in advance here.
> 
> We're actually in the midst of upgrading our Small Plow Planes, and will be providing you an upgraded model at no additional cost. These upgrades specifically are two manufacturing changes that will further refine and expand the Planes capabilities. The first is a modified depth stop clamp, which will hold the depth stop skate more securely than in previous versions. The second, and more significant change, is a re-milling of the skate, to accommodate our newly released Beading Blades (05P52.xx)!
> 
> These new blades are available in 1/8", 3/16" and ¼" bead diameters, with a 1/16" groove or landing on either side. Additional details can be found on our website, when they become available mid-march, at the same time as your Plow Plane.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Veritas posted a Youtube video this morning about the changes to the plow plane:


----------



## terryR

^very nice!
Harder and harder to keep waiting for a LN plough.
just sayin'


----------



## Mosquito

Veritas upgrades are pretty cool


----------



## benchbuilder

Thanks Don, I believe I will give that plane build a try. Looks like setting the frog to 50 or 55 degreess would be easy and very useful, thanks again Don!!


----------



## ColonelTravis

Cool, thanks James.


----------



## TheFridge

Ups came forth bringing gifts. Veritas flat and curved spokey.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ I dig the blade adjustment on the Veritas spokies, but the like the weight of the LNs. Both great tools.

Also cool stuff about the Veritas plow. Even a way to have your old plow modified??? What a company.



> ^very nice!
> Harder and harder to keep waiting for a LN plough.
> just sayin
> 
> - terryR


Ya know Terry, the story of the plows kinda reflects the personality of the toolmakers. Veritas isn't afraid to get something out there and improve later if need be. Other than the new chipbreaker, I'm not aware of any modifications LN made in their lineup after introduction. Seems ol' Thomas is patient. He won't offer a tool until it is exactly the way he wants it.


----------



## widdle

Going to Harbor frieght to return the dovetail saw i bought last week…You guys need anything?


----------



## widdle

I have a coupon..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Lol widdle. Knucklehead.


----------



## widdle

Decided to keep the saw and buy a hammer to fix it…5 bucks…


----------



## ColonelTravis

> ^ I dig the blade adjustment on the Veritas spokies, but the like the weight of the LNs. Both great tools.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Was using my LN today and wished it had a blade adjuster. Actually, I'm a blade adjuster but I'm lazy.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ehh, don't feel bad. I've got a lot of hours in with an LN spokie and I still fight blade adjustment. Maybe ol' Brian Boggs can give a tiny tap with a mallet on wee blade…..and get it to move just a hair, but I struggle to.

Funny note on that, when I got the chance to meet Mr. Boggs, I asked him why he didn't put those stanley 151 adjusters on the spokeshave he designed. He just answered, "It doesn't need them." lol. Guess it depends if you're making the tool for yourself or the unskilled masses.


----------



## DanKrager

I wonder if finer adjustments can be done with a lighter weight persuader. Only have one infrequently used tap adjusting widget, and I used my smallerest hammer.

DanK


----------



## bearkatwood

How did you end up meeting him Red?


----------



## dyfhid

Went to the LN Hand Tool Event in Chichester, NH this afternoon. While I was able to keep my wallet in my pocket for most of the time, Rarewoods USA was there selling stuff they normally don't sell, and I just had to buy 

Beautiful Cocobolo joiner's mallet, awesome feeling blackwood carver's mallet, couple of holdfast protectors, all for right at $100! And he was giving away an purpleheart angle setting jig for a sharpening jig. (Oh, and the obligatory shop cat had to get in the picture  Nice haul, if I do say so!










Also, got to run in to Peter Follansbee, watched him make a spoon for a while, Tom McLaughlin, we chatted about his shop, work with Tommy Mac and his classes. Got back together with Steve Branam, always nice to chat with, and also Matt Bickford, who let me butcher a molding with one of his sweet molding planes. And I would be remiss if I didn't mention the Guild of New Hampshire Woodworkers, who were there spreading the good guild word, and of which I am a proud member!

Great time, lots of good old Made in the USA love there! If you haven't had a chance to attend one of these events, I would highly recommend it! Schedule here - https://www.lie-nielsen.com/hand-tool-events


----------



## jmartel

I went to the LN event in Seattle today as well. Didn't spend any money. Played with a bunch of planes.

#3 sized, $2200 worth of it. Bastogne Walnut infill. Super nice to plane with.










And another. 4 1/2 sized with Ebony infill.










It was fun to play with, but not something I can buy right now.

What is this, a plane for ants?


----------



## Ripthorn

J, was the maker of those Juan Hovey or Juan Vergara? I know I have seen his stuff before, I just get confused with who does what.


----------



## jmartel

Juan Vergara.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Oh man, drooling. LN event coming up in a few weeks where I am.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

bearkat- Met Brian at a Master Woodworkers show.

DanK- I'm already using my dainty LN hammer. Maybe I should try a wood dowel;-)

Have ya'll seen this Starrett toolmakers hammer? It's got a darn built-in lookin glass. Made me think of TerryR.










https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/starrett-tools-tool-makers-hammer-


----------



## bigblockyeti

I had a chance to tour Brian Boggs' shop in Asheville a couple years ago. Wow, the tools he had and the stuff he was working on, amazing!


----------



## lateralus819

That infill looks disgusting…

Whats up with the gigantic tote and the weird knob? To each their own I guess lol.


----------



## TheFridge

I got the veritas for the blade adjustment. I have an old curved Stanley and it's a pita to adjust.


----------



## rad457

I have a set of Small Bronze Spokeshave from L.N. You adjust them with light taps on the handle on the Bench to back them off or a tap of the back of the blade on the workbench for a deeper cut. Very accurate with a bit of practice. Did replace the stock blades with Hocks iron!

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/static-file-transform/1326/thumbnail%2Cw_500%2Ch_500%2Cm_a.jpg


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Andre, you replaced LN blades with Hocks? lol, don't know that I've seen anyone do that. I like 'em both though. 
I can adjust plane irons with a mallet fine, but the little spokies give me trouble. Prolly 'cause I have mits like Wreck-It Ralph



> Went to the LN Hand Tool Event in Chichester, NH this afternoon. While I was able to keep my wallet in my pocket for most of the time, Rarewoods USA was there selling stuff they normally don t sell, and I just had to buy
> 
> - David Taylor


Thanks for the post David. While I've been to a couple Handworks and other shows, can't say I've been to a dedicated LN show. Looks like you got some sweet tools.


----------



## bearkatwood

Well you sure don't build like Wreck-it-Raplph! Funny stuff. I have a few older models I put hocks in. You get an awesome tool either way. Looks like I am getting a new jointer in the morning  super pumped. Going from 6" to 8"


----------



## b2rtch

Red, I "hate " you for starting this.


----------



## bearkatwood

Now come on "hate" is a strong word… O.k. maybe it works here. I can't get anything done. I am too busy reading this thread. Dang-it Red. Why, Man, Why?


----------



## woodcox

Lol Bert! True…evolving rabbit hole of makers to observe or patron.


----------



## bearkatwood

I think we should all just put this silly tool thing down and go to walmart for some wonderful Ikea furnishings.  what do you say? There are too many makers in the world, it is muddying the pool. 
&%@$! I think I hit my head… What happened?


----------



## ToddJB

Brian, what kind of jointer are you getting?


----------



## bearkatwood

A 8" Delta DJ-20
Old school baby!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, I "hate " you for starting this.
> 
> - b2rtch


Hearty chuckle there Bert. This thread putting a dent in any wallets yet? A noble thing to spend your hard earned cash though ehh?

Rabbit hole of makers. We haven't touched on Sterling Tooworks yet. Met this guy too, class act. The best lookin plane hammer I've seen:









I love the the replaceable wooden heads are called "spuds."

Also, I think his dovetail square is rather brilliant.


----------



## ToddJB

Nice and MAYBE looks like its within the 30 year threshold of the forum, but certainly not a hand tool. I'm just finishing up my 1953 version of that 8"er. Waiting on bearings.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^hehe. Oh well. I'd trade my grizzly for that puppy anyday.


----------



## dyfhid

> Thanks for the post David. While I've been to a couple Handworks and other shows, can't say I've been to a dedicated LN show. Looks like you got some sweet tools.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Red,

They are, very sweet. Used the joiner's mallet today while gluing up my bench top Turns out cocobolo is harder than white ash, probably should use the side with the leather to bang things, unless I want square dents! I am talking with Mr. Knapp at Rare Woods now about getting some tiger ash (which I didn't even know existed!) to use as a chop on my new white ash bench, something I don't think I'd have considered if I hadn't gone and met him. He had a bench made of the stuff, and wow it's gorgeous!

I think that's the best part of these events is meeting the makers that go along. It's nice and all to see the LN line up, but being able to talk with other tool makers and woodworkers is worth the trip in my opinion!


----------



## bearkatwood

O.k. sorry I hijacked the thread, it really was all ToddJB's Fault.
Here is my LN scratch beader and my Galbert travisher. I just bought the Hock burnisher for my scrapers and there are some other made in the usa tools there too 









I am working on one right now, an xsmall handled carcass with a walnut handle and a piece of petrified wood I found on the beach to go in the medallion.









I am hoping to add the saws to my site store later this week. I don't plan on making too many of them, but if someone wanted one they could order it. The newer ones will have brass backs, but they will have the same scalloping as the wood backed ones. I guess people could request the wood-backs as well, they do work well. I guess I don't qualify because I don't fit within the thirty year cutoff  but my hands are registered as deadly woodworking weapons in Canada. hehe.


----------



## WirelessWoodworker

> Hearty chuckle there Bert. This thread putting a dent in any wallets yet? A noble thing to spend your hard earned cash though ehh?
> 
> Rabbit hole of makers. We haven t touched on Sterling Tooworks yet. Met this guy too, class act. The best lookin plane hammer I ve seen:
> .
> .
> .
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I, too, met Chris last year at a LN event. Agreed, class act and real easy to chat with. All of his stuff is top notch.

Finally coughed up the cash for a LN 5 1/2 and the day before it arrives I break my thumb. I think I can probably still cram the cast into the tote though…right?


----------



## DLK

Now is the opportunity to learn to plane left handed.


----------



## DanKrager

+1^. Every chance I get I try to master the other hand for so many reasons.

DanK


----------



## WhoMe

> Now is the opportunity to learn to plane left handed.
> 
> - Combo Prof


From another leftie, go for it. Then you can make your workbench backwards, I mean left handed… ;-)


----------



## CB_Cohick

This thread is getting expensive! Somebody at Lee Valley may get a raise this year though.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> O.k. sorry I hijacked the thread, it really was all ToddJB s Fault.
> Here is my LN scratch beader and my Galbert travisher. I just bought the Hock burnisher for my scrapers and there are some other made in the usa tools there too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bearkatwood


May I request a close up of that saw handle on the left?


----------



## WirelessWoodworker

> Now is the opportunity to learn to plane left handed.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Good idea, I'm happy now that I made my shooting board double sided! Although, if it's anything like the left handed sawing I did last night it'll be decades before I can take shavings.


----------



## DLK

> +1^. Every chance I get I try to master the other hand for so many reasons.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


LOL!


----------



## bearkatwood

Sure thing,


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Tim- Congrats on the LN 5 1/2. I don't have any LN jacks, and I don't need one….but I want one. hehe. Nice website too.

Bearkat- It's not fair to share off your tools and superior skills. The rest of us have to rely on our shiny tools to impress. lol.

Ya, this thread already cost me $65. It talked me into a Sterling DT square last night. Curse you thread.


----------



## bearkatwood

Like I said before, I ain't got no skills. Fake it till you make it


----------



## TheFridge

Damn you enablers!

Gotta figure out how to spend 300$. LN router and some other small goodies or a LN 4 1/2. Descisions descisions.

Edit: watching Doucette and Wolfe videos made me really really want LN planes. 4 1/2, 5, & 7 one day.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^We all look just as smooth as Matt Wolfe when using our LN planes. Trust me.

For those we lost, watch in awe:


----------



## TheFridge

Never watched that one. They are filthy. I realized what a spokeshave is actually capable of when I watched their Highboy build.


----------



## rad457

That Video reminds of what Krenov has built mostly with Planes he built himself, Never did see any sandpaper used?


----------



## bearkatwood

I started out woodworking very crudely being self taught. That last part was the tough one, "self taught" meaning I constantly had to adjust my behavior to get rid of bad habits and learn a better way to do things. For me self taught didn't mean I figured it out just in the shop goofing up, I spent every spare minute I had in the library, watching videos and reading. My first rocking chair took me two weeks to sand, now I finish a chair in a day or even a few hours. I used to have a huge 2' square box of sandpaper that I brought with me when I moved to Oregon from West Virginia. It has now turned into a small bag as I throw bits away that I know I won't use. My wife still uses it for carving. I grab a small piece from time to time, usually to use on a tool or something metal. When I do go to replace any of the paper it will be by visiting this site;
http://www.mirka.com/abrasive/Abrasives_By_Name/
I think it was about three years ago I realized that sanding was doing more harm than good. Planing and scraping leaves a much better finish and takes a fraction of the time. Doucette and Wolfe videos are fun to watch, so much can be said without words. SO put that sand paper down and try a card scraper or #4 plane.
I am sorry to hear you all are going broke after reading this thread. I am sure Red will reimburse you 
I frankly don't know what to order next for hand tools, I have a few planes I would like to restore. I have a Frankin-five I am working on and I thought with the leftovers I would make a Schwarz replica complete with the etching on the side for fun and then give it away in one of my video comment thingies. As for big tools, I am going to pick up my jointer today. I tried yesterday, but for some reason the highway decided to fall into the ocean. It is going to make a two hour drive turn into a four hour drive, but I really want that sucker. Maybe one of you will have a suggestion of just the hand tool I am lacking, and before you say it "yes I know I don't have any infill planes" I am not rich, I can't afford one of those things. 
Have a great day everyone and have fun woodworking.


----------



## DLK

So concerning sanding. How do you round over a mitered corner with out sanding? I couldn't seem to do it with a low angle block with out edge tear out and chipping. I thought about a rasp, but how would I make it smooth? Would a card scraper work? Ideas?


----------



## bearkatwood

I would start with a shave making many facets to the miter and then perhaps use a rasp or file if the curve was compound. A goose-neck scraper would perhaps do it. You can make a card scraper from an old handsaw blade. Use a dremel cut-off wheel to cut out the desired shape and burnish it as you would any other scraper. Much like making a custom sanding block. The difference in look is so much better. With sanding you are tearing and scratching the wood grain where with a scraper or plane you are cutting and with a plane burnishing the surface grain.


----------



## builtinbkyn

That video got me depressed. Made me realize how much I don't know and that I'm pretty much just hacking away. 



> ^We all look just as smooth as Matt Wolfe when using our LN planes. Trust me.
> 
> For those we lost, watch in awe:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


----------



## bearkatwood

Hey come on! you got the stuff. It all comes with patience. Lots and lots.. and lots and lots, lots of patience. Just keep at it and it will all just start to flow out of your hands. We have loved watching you put your shop together, I personally think you have my dream shop and all the people on this forum will help to get you there. Don't get discouraged, you have to crawl before you can run. Have a great day


----------



## WirelessWoodworker

> Damn you enablers!
> 
> Gotta figure out how to spend 300$. LN router and some other small goodies or a LN 4 1/2. Descisions descisions.
> 
> Edit: watching Doucette and Wolfe videos made me really really want LN planes. 4 1/2, 5, & 7 one day.
> 
> - TheFridge


I gotta say the router plane is probably my favorite tool in the shop - can pretty much do everything! Although, you can never have too many smoothing planes, and that 4 1/2 does look pretty…

Have I helped yet??


----------



## builtinbkyn

Thanks Brian. Well at least I'm having fun. Maybe I'll be like Grandma Moses and create a masterpiece when I'm 88 lol



> Hey come on! you got the stuff. It all comes with patience. Lots and lots.. and lots and lots, lots of patience. Just keep at it and it will all just start to flow out of your hands. We have loved watching you put your shop together, I personally think you have my dream shop and all the people on this forum will help to get you there. Don t get discouraged, you have to crawl before you can run. Have a great day
> 
> - bearkatwood


----------



## bearkatwood

I do love me a good router plane, useful little critters. I recently had to clean out a small hole that had a ledge and I bought a 1/4" long iron for the router plane to get into the tight spot, it has become one of my favorites. Some of those are just so long they are kind of ridiculous.


----------



## DLK

I too love my router plane, but unfortunately its a type 2 and thus before depth adjustment was added. Depth adjustment seems so useful that I guess I'll just have to buy a later model.


----------



## DLK

> I would start with a shave making many facets to the miter and then perhaps use a rasp or file if the curve was compound. A goose-neck scraper would perhaps do it. You can make a card scraper from an old handsaw blade. Use a dremel cut-off wheel to cut out the desired shape and burnish it as you would any other scraper. Much like making a custom sanding block. The difference in look is so much better. With sanding you are tearing and scratching the wood grain where with a scraper or plane you are cutting and with a plane burnishing the surface grain.
> 
> - bearkatwood


I quite agree that scraping/planning is so much better then sanding. I do this often enough that maybe a custom scraper is the ticket. Well yet another tool to make.


----------



## jmartel

Every time I watch a D&W video, I learn something new. Even if it's a video I've seen 10 times already.


----------



## bobasaurus

Bearkat, that was an interesting read about avoiding sandpaper. I'm not 100% there yet for curved surfaces, but I love not sanding the flats anymore. How would you smooth a routed edge with burn marks with just hand tools… maybe a profiled scraper? Or just use molding planes from the start, I guess. Need to get into those.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Awesome saw handle, Bearkat - thanks. It reminds me of a little decorative piece that Jim Toplin did for this stand up desk in PW this year. (I'm supposed to make two of these things. Good luck, ye ambitious sucker!)










In the upper corners where the legs meets the base you can barely see them. Actually, you can see them in a video of the same desk he did last year. 









I emailed him a while back and asked how he did it, he said he just took some allen wrench heads and banged on the wood.


----------



## ToddJB

> He said he just took some allen wrench heads and banged on the wood.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


That's awesome


----------



## b2rtch

Back home (France) when I was a kid (a long time ago) nobody (that I knew) used sand paper or scraper.
We drink a lot wine (I still do) and so we have a lot of empty bottles.
In stead of sand paper or scrapers,many were using the sharp edge of broken glass bottles, it works very well.

If you buy me a full bottle of good wine ( I get to choose) I shall empty it free of charge for you and then send it back empty to you!

I believe that this is good deal.


----------



## rad457

> Back home (France) when I was a kid (a long time ago) nobody (that I knew) used sand paper or scraper.
> We drink a lot wine (I still do) and so we have a lot of empty bottles.
> In stead of sand paper or scrapers,many were using the sharp edge of broken glass bottles, it works very well.
> 
> If you buy me a full bottle of good wine ( I get to choose) I shall empty it free of charge for you and then send it back empty to you!
> 
> I believe that this is good deal.
> 
> - b2rtch


Red or White? Perhaps some Cognac for the really hard woods?


----------



## Brit

Très bon Bert!


----------



## bearkatwood

I am a big fan of Jim's work and hope to get up there to take a class with him someday soon. I have a set of leather stamping tools that do a great job in wood. I have a plan that I have been working on for a while to make an art table that has some of the look to Jim's desk. I will make it with dividers as well, I have been having fun with that. I think I will write a blog today about my adventures, I did manage to find a stanley 71 router plane at an antique store (sorry no pictures yet) on my way back home. It was a steel as it was missing some parts, but I think I might have what it is missing. 
On the burnt router issue, first off your bit is dull or your router is going to fast or you are lingering in one place too long, try to sharpen your bit and go at an even pace. If that doesn't work and you are using a bearing bit, shave a bit away from where the bearing touches the work and then make another pass, should fix the problem. Or like I said before make a scraper form an old backsaw blade that matches the profile you are working on. I make saws so I have shim stock laying around that works good and I have some brass back material that was too long so I cut off about 3 inches and that works great to make a beader or profile profiled card scraper. 
Sorry I am hijacking this awesome thread again. I will talk about a tool I would like to buy. I am very fond of the adzes made by Tim Manney. I believe he worked with Peter Galbert in their design. They are very unique and I hope to get one some day. 








Lets keep these makers in biz and order one here!
http://timmanneychairmaker.blogspot.com/p/tapered-reamers.html
I really like the shape of the handle. I bought a cheap hammer a few weeks back meaning to cut the old handle off and make a new one from some hickory I have with a nod to Tim in the design and look. 
Watch for my blog later tonight about my trip to get the jointer.


----------



## b2rtch

Cognac or Calvados would work, no champagne as I do not like it.

Calvados
Calvados is an apple brandy produced within the Calvados appellation contrôlée of the French region of Normandy.

Williams would also be acceptable:
Williams Pear Brandy ( from: http://clearcreekdistillery.com/products/eaux-de-vie/pear-brandy/?age-verified=3f8fed8389)
This is classic eau de vie de poire. 
We use Williams (Bartlett) pears grown just an hour away in the Hood River Valley. 
We crush and ferment the whole pear and then distill the pure fruit mash in our German-made pot stills. It takes about 30 pounds of pears to make one 750ml bottle of Pear Brandy. The pear nose is intense, the taste is strong, but pure, and the aftertaste is clean with a surprisingly strong hint of pear. In warmer parts of the country and in the summer, it should be served chilled.

This is to be enjoyed poured on the top of pear sorbet, just to die for.


----------



## Brit

See Mads blog about making card scrapers from a saw plate.

http://lumberjocks.com/mafe/blog/79914#comment-3008530


----------



## BigRedKnothead

So much good stuff to comment on…..

Bearkat- Our journey sounds much the same. I'm "self-taught." That is, outside of high school shop, I have never taken a class. However, the self-taught term feels silly to me when at least half of what I've learned has been from books, mags, and vids. Teaching yourself can be a drudge. I know friends (like Mark Kornell) were able to attend a school, and no doubt they learned in a year or two of tutelage…. the skills/techniques that took us years by ourselves. Oh well. We got there.

I have similar feelings on sandpaper. Still use it some, but not much anymore.

The things that drove me to hand tools:
- Sanding. The dust and the tedium. One of the only parts of woodworking I don't enjoy. 
- Precision. I could not get the "just the right fit" I wanted with machines. Tablesaws won't take off 1/64th well…etc. 
- The challenge/satisfaction factor. Anyone can run a random orbital sander. Not everyone can sharpen a smoothing plane, read the grain….and make that baby sing. It's a skill, and it's worth attaining.

If we weren't spread all over the country I'd gladly show anyone struggling with hand tools all I know. Probably save you some frustration….but so it is.

Last, yes…. a LN or veritas smoothing plane will set you back 3 bills or so. Pre-hand tools I used a good $50 of sandpaper on a big furniture build. It only takes a few projects and a trash can full of sandpaper to pay for a premium smoother.


----------



## lateralus819

Yeah they do pay for themselves that is for sure. Good sandpaper isn't cheap.

Even some of the klingspor stuff cloggs super fast.


----------



## Brit

Well said Red.


----------



## bearkatwood

I knew we had a lot in common Red, it shows in your work. One thing that shows most to me is the attention and care put into it. I wish we weren't all sped out as well, I am about as far removed as I can get without falling into the drink.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> Back home (France) when I was a kid (a long time ago) nobody (that I knew) used sand paper or scraper.
> We drink a lot wine (I still do) and so we have a lot of empty bottles.
> In stead of sand paper or scrapers,many were using the sharp edge of broken glass bottles, it works very well.
> 
> If you buy me a full bottle of good wine ( I get to choose) I shall empty it free of charge for you and then send it back empty to you!
> 
> I believe that this is good deal.
> 
> - b2rtch


Would you be willing to properly break it too? There must be a trick to getting it just right ;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Well said Red.
> 
> - Brit


Uh huh. And if it wasn't for this crazy Brit (and Bob Summerfield) I never would have realized how much hand SAWS could improve my work.

That cost me a grand or so in the past few years….LOL.


----------



## lateralus819

Don't look at his projects too close .


----------



## b2rtch

Topamax, I would have to practice and I am willing to do it just as a favor to you. 
Send me your full bottles.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> That video got me depressed. Made me realize how much I don t know and that I m pretty much just hacking away.
> - builtinbkyn


Matt's (Doucette&Wolfe) vids are inspiring, and they should be just that. A guy's gotta keep perspective though:

1) Matt makes very high-end furniture. He obtains material/wood of a quality that most of us have never seen let alone worked with. It makes a difference in hand tooling. 
2) The vids are somewhat "staged"....but it does make them funner to watch though.
3) Sharp is everything. 
4) Matt received a lot of teaching/training. Knuckleheads like us can get there…. but it takes work and commitment.

There are days when tap a perfect dovetail home, or plane a full with shaving….. and in my head I look just as cool as Matt Wolfe. And it's glorious Lol.


----------



## bearkatwood

If you have ever wanted a nice brass hammer try these by Glen Drake








http://www.glen-drake.com/Tite-Hammers/

Another American tool maker is Hamilton marking gauges








http://www.hamiltontools.com/

There, now that I qualified to speak on this page I can throw my shameless plug in for my blog 
http://lumberjocks.com/bearkatwood/blog/79938
You guys have a great night, speak at you again soon-ish.


----------



## b2rtch

We should be glad that people like Doucette & Wolfe are alive because even if we never can hope to reach their level, they are an inspiration for us all and the tradition of excellent craftsmanship is transmitted from generation to generation.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Amen Bert.



> I knew we had a lot in common Red, it shows in your work. One thing that shows most to me is the attention and care put into it. I wish we weren t all sped out as well, I am about as far removed as I can get without falling into the drink.
> 
> - bearkatwood


Yup, we're cut from the same cloth. Post away buddy.

I wouldn't be surprised if I get to have a beer with you, or a cognac with Bert someday. I'm baffled at the woodworkers I've met in just the past few years.

Btw, I thought Blue Spruce made those now I see he just offers the Hamiltons.


----------



## WillliamMSP

....aaaaaaaand I've spent a decent part of the evening fangirling over D&W vids on youtube. Amazing.


----------



## bearkatwood

I didn't know that, I saw that blue spruce was making some nice dovetail chisels too.


----------



## sepeck

> That video got me depressed. Made me realize how much I don t know and that I m pretty much just hacking away.
> 
> ^We all look just as smooth as Matt Wolfe when using our LN planes. Trust me.
> 
> For those we lost, watch in awe:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead
> 
> - builtinbkyn


builtinbkyn
So I went and looked at your shop build blog. You can get depressed after I catch up to you if somehow you manage to stay still and then we can race to see who catches red. Then we can mug them together and loot their shops  My shop cabinets are out of 2×4 and MDF.

After reading stuff here on LJ a while back, I got a Veritas Carcass saw, and I realize it's ultimately not as pretty it was an affordable investment for me to try this hand tool thing and damn it. Now I want more and better! Unless it's plywood or MDF I use that thing for everything if possible and it's a little to small for several items, but I will scrimp and save and maybe find a kit to make myself. Amazing the difference sharp makes.


----------



## Iguana

Since Red mentioned it, I'll comment on the formal education vs. self-taught thing:

I was - fortunately or unfortunately, depending on the perspective - able to have the time and resources to go back to school for 9 months of training in woodworking as a big career change in my early 40s. I figure that year was worth about 5 years of self-teaching. It is one thing to read or watch some very good content on the web and then try to replicate that yourself vs. having an instructor at hand.

That being said, it was just a start. I felt I got to a basic level of competence but far from mastery. And I manage to show myself just how wide the gap is nearly every day.  I like doing this because it is a continual learning process. As the experience and knowledge build, I see the results in my work. Sometimes it is big things, sometimes small, but I get the satisfaction of knowing I'm making progress.

If you're in a position of teaching yourself, I think the best thing toward furthering your education would be to find a woodworking buddy to show you things you are struggling with. These woodworking forums are great for asking questions, but it is hard to get direct feedback on things that rely so much on feel. When you are starting out, developing that feel is the hardest part. Like Red, I'll gladly help anybody I can but it is a heck of a drive to get here from just about anywhere.

The formal education road isn't for everyone. It can help get you started (maybe even help a lot) but it only takes you so far. At some point, you need to just get on with it and start making things. Those of you who are self-taught know how to do this! If you've got the knack, it will happen.


----------



## murch

> ....aaaaaaaand I ve spent a decent part of the evening fangirling over D&W vids on youtube. Amazing.
> 
> - WillliamMSP


"Fangirling" - laughing here. What a great word..


----------



## b2rtch

'It is one thing to read or watch some very good content on the web and then try to replicate that yourself vs. having an instructor at hand." 
Amen and Amen.
When teaching yourself ,most of the time, you (I) just learn bad habits which later are very difficult to correct.

A great pity of life is that a real craftsman will spend 30,40 or even 50 years learning his trade and the day he dies, if he had no students, all this is gone, forgotten going to waste.
This why, it is so important to learn from teachers: to transmit the knowledge and to not let it go to waste.
Experience, years of experience cannot be learned on YouTube.
There is nothing like a mentor or a teacher holding your hand and correcting you as you learn.
( I should put this in practice myself as I live a few block from one of the best craftsman in the country and I do not take advantage of this)


----------



## bearkatwood

You guys are hitting it on the head. Teaching yourself can get you up the hill, but if you have instruction, it's like riding the buss up. The feedback is so important. Frank Klausz said we are just caretakers of the knowledge. We need to pass it on. 
I think there is a resurgence of people doing it for themselves. It started years back, all the do it yourself home centers and T.V. channels have spurned this movement on. It may make some teachers upset to know there are twenty more schools opening to teach fine woodworking, but it is going to raise the bar. Go back and look at some of the older magazines and articles about the fine woodwork being produced twenty years ago and then juxtapose that with the quality of work being put out today. The wealth of information and tutelage is giving us greater quality of work and a richer pool from which to draw. It is the same with tool makers, though our factories are gone and it is harder to run a small business now, we have small workshops dedicated to providing this new generation of woodworkers with the tools they need to craft so well.
I hope to be part of this environment and contribute what little I can and experience the great makers of our time. We have yet to eclipse the fantastic work produced in the 18th century, but thanks to historians and teachers like Chris Schwarz, Don Williams, Peter Follansbee, Roy Underhill, George Walker… the list goes on. Thanks to Red for putting this thread together. He is part of this movement as well.
I promise the next post will have a tool in it Red.


----------



## b2rtch

Big Red is a great guy as through his different postings he inspires many of us to acquire new skills or to improve those which we already have.
Thank you Big Red.


----------



## builtinbkyn

Hey Steve. Thanks. Though I knew it prior to seeing that video, for me, it did hi-light how much I really don't know and the skills I lack in woodworking. I'm trying though and I do like the idea of finding a school or mentor to further my abilities. It's great to watch a true artisan in action, though also very humbling. Now I need to go sharpen a few American made tools 



> That video got me depressed. Made me realize how much I don t know and that I m pretty much just hacking away.
> 
> ^We all look just as smooth as Matt Wolfe when using our LN planes. Trust me.
> 
> For those we lost, watch in awe:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead
> 
> - builtinbkyn
> 
> builtinbkyn
> So I went and looked at your shop build blog. You can get depressed after I catch up to you if somehow you manage to stay still and then we can race to see who catches red. Then we can mug them together and loot their shops  My shop cabinets are out of 2×4 and MDF.
> 
> After reading stuff here on LJ a while back, I got a Veritas Carcass saw, and I realize it s ultimately not as pretty it was an affordable investment for me to try this hand tool thing and damn it. Now I want more and better! Unless it s plywood or MDF I use that thing for everything if possible and it s a little to small for several items, but I will scrimp and save and maybe find a kit to make myself. Amazing the difference sharp makes.
> 
> - sepeck


----------



## DLK

I've been an Educator for 40 years now and I can tell you different people learn in different ways. Some learn best from reading print, others from videos and still others from hands on experience. So what you might extoll as the best way to learn, may only be the best way for you to learn. I think all methods are worth pursuing and although some methods may seem to have a bigger impact on your learning then other methods it still is in your best interest not to forsake other learning devices. For me I learn best by trying to teach it to someone else.


----------



## jmartel

I wish I had taken classes sometimes. Just been figuring it out by doing and by forums/youtube for the last 4 1/2 years. Major difference from when I started and trying to figure out why the tablesaw was kicking back at me once or twice a day. I really want to take a class on the Chevy's with shipwright. He's close enough that I can justify it, just need to get the time off and money.


----------



## ToddJB

> ...just need to get the time off and money.
> 
> - jmartel


Word. I'm a quick study when I have a human there with me guiding or smacking my hand accordingly.


----------



## bearkatwood

We all need a good smacking now and then


----------



## mramseyISU

> We all need a good smacking now and then
> 
> - bearkatwood


Isn't that why we get married?


----------



## b2rtch

"Isn't that why we get married?" 
No , we get married so that we do not have to cook for ourselves.
The smacking is extra.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thank you Bert. Much appreciated.

Great Mark, basically I wasted 5 years of my life to catch up with your schooling. Just great;-P



> I promise the next post will have a tool in it Red.
> 
> - bearkatwood


It's alright. I realize that the OP'original post' alludes to a philosophy that many of us have arrived at. We can't talk about the "what" without the "why."

-

Shoulder planes. Try 'em. Your tenons will approve.


----------



## Ripthorn

Give it a few weeks and there will be another modern American hand tool in this world:


----------



## AgentTwitch

I still want to make an infill plane, can't wait to see it Brian.

I recently stocked up on all of the Lie-Nielsen spokeshaves and the no.66 beading tool. Wonderful tools that feel so comfortable in the hands (vs the Stanley 151). Probably going to keep the stock blades tho. 

I didn't know I had a Lie-Nielson addiction until I bought another no.4 because I didn't have the bronze one yet. The saga continues…


----------



## bearkatwood

The end of this year looks promising too… 
Hint hint.


----------



## TheFridge

I just want a LN 4 1/2. First.


----------



## LJRay

Wow. Lots of good information and insights being exchanged here. Much appreciated.


----------



## bearkatwood

We accept tips


----------



## lateralus819

> I just want a LN 4 1/2. First.
> 
> - TheFridge


Get a 55 degree frog. You won't regret it.


----------



## bearkatwood

A 32 degree frog is to stiff to jump. he he.


----------



## August

> I just want a LN 4 1/2. First.
> 
> - TheFridge
> 
> how would this help me?
> will this be easy to push?
> been working with yellow pine lately and i experience lots of tear out.
> 
> Get a 55 degree frog. You won t regret it.
> 
> - lateralus819


----------



## byerbyer

Holy geez. A guy takes a week off and he was 200 posts to read to catch back up!

A few posts back some of you were discussing classes. I've been itching to share some news on this front with either this forum or the furniture forum. For those of you that follow Schwarz's blog regularly you know he did a baby anarchists class last year where you build the tool box featured in his new Anarchist's Design Book totally by hand as well as setup & sharpen your tools. With Chris taking a break from teaching Mike Siemsen is offering the class this summer and I was lucky enough to get a spot in that class! I'm beyond excited to be a part of it.

PS. Here's the adorable reason for my time away from LJ's, my daughter.


----------



## JayT

Congrats Jason on the class, but much more so on the daughter. Hope she gets her looks from her mother.


----------



## putty

Congratulations!!! She is beautiful!


----------



## TheFridge

> I just want a LN 4 1/2. First.
> 
> - TheFridge
> 
> Get a 55 degree frog. You won t regret it.
> 
> - lateralus819


That's the plan. Keep the Stanley for normal tasks and the LN for gnarly stuff.

Edit: congrats on the babe. Hope she sleeps at night. I have to beat mine asleep.


----------



## terryR

^meaning you fall asleep first?
or you abuse them nightly?


----------



## TheFridge

Just until the Benadryl kicks in  for both of us


----------



## byerbyer

Thanks all. She's a pretty happy baby so far… Haven't had to resort to Benadryl or bourbon yet, but the sample size is still pretty small.


----------



## WirelessWoodworker

Adorable, congrats!

Does LN make newborn sized planes? She may be able to grab that violin maker's plane pretty soon!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jeepers! Byers on a roll! Congrats buddy.

Auggie, high angle frogs will help with tearout on tough woods. I've got an extra 55 degree for my 4-1/2, I don't used it a ton, but I bust it out for the tough stuff. I posted a pic of curly walnut recently, I couldn't get a good surface with other planes, but the high angle frog did the trick.

Pine is a tough customer. Not positive if the high angle frog will help or not. Here's a good article for ya. 
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/taming_handplane_tear-out


----------



## jmartel

August, you have a low angle jack, right? You can sharpen a 45-50 degree micro bevel on that for the gnarly stuff and then you won't need to buy another plane. I mean, it's always nice to buy more tools, but if you have a low angle already, it's not necessary.


----------



## Ripthorn

Don't buy a tool! Spend more money, tons of time, and almost complete consumption of thought process and build your own!


----------



## DanKrager

Awwwwww, Byer. That's a keeper, that right there is!

Where did I hear that a 32° frog is too stiff to work right?

DanK


----------



## b2rtch

She is so cute!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## sepeck

byerbyer congratulations and to keep on track, you can make a set of these 

note the phrase when asked about other babies is "wow, almost as cute as mine"


----------



## bearkatwood

Very cute kiddo! Congrats! Future woodworker in diapers.


----------



## bearkatwood

> Don t buy a tool! Spend more money, tons of time, and almost complete consumption of thought process and build your own!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Ripthorn


Then stick it in the back of the cabinet and go buy the one you wanted to begin with.


----------



## Ripthorn

> Then stick it in the back of the cabinet and go buy the one you wanted to begin with.
> 
> - bearkatwood


No, then redesign and rebuild, investing even more time and money into it, that's how the cycle goes! Just ask me…


----------



## jmartel

> No, then redesign and rebuild, investing even more time and money into it, that s how the cycle goes! Just ask me…
> 
> - Ripthorn


And in your case, buy a mill, maybe a lathe, some other heavy duty metalworking machines…


----------



## Ripthorn

> And in your case, buy a mill, maybe a lathe, some other heavy duty metalworking machines…
> 
> - jmartel


SHHHH!! You're not supposed to mention that until he's hooked based on my previous comments…


----------



## Ripthorn

And, I must add, that all my metal working machinery has cost less than one of Mr. Brese's fine winter smoothers. Now if only I could get something that nice out if it…


----------



## ColonelTravis

Don't have Byer-quality news - congrats! What's the hand tool equivalent of a stork? UPS truck? It dropped this on my porch today:



















Don't have time to try it out today or tonight, which stinks. Tomorrow will not stink!


----------



## bobasaurus

Oh nice, can't wait to see you plow some grooves Travis.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^I like the way you plow it. No diggity. I'd like to bag them shavin's up.


----------



## jmartel

Travis, did you get it with the new beading stuff and all the improvements? I'd like to get one, but it's a bit steep of a cost for now. Have to get some more commissions first.


----------



## ColonelTravis

They sent me the new version. Haven't checked the site but they said in an email the beading blades would be available mid-March, with free shipping on those for a month, I don't know if that's only for people like me who just ordered one? I'll probably get at least 1 blade, maybe 2, what the heck. They can't be that expensive and I'd use it for that purpose.


----------



## DanKrager

Man that's a nice investment, Colonel.

With my luck, I'd hit a knot or something and snap that handle right off. It's spring so I guess you could do some plowing as soon as it dries up…  When you're a hammer everything looks like a nail, and when you are a farmer at heart everything looks like a plow.

DanK


----------



## Iguana

Congrats, Jason! Now start looking for one of the ever elusive Stanley #1s so you can get her making shavings at a young age. Like, this summer


----------



## TheFridge

I saw one at a shop sale once… Dude didn't even know he had it… He wouldn't sell either.


----------



## bearkatwood

Makes me want to get plowed. Bada boom ha ha.
I like the additions they made. 
Stuck in a hotel tonight in Eugene, on a lumber run. I am throwing down a couple grand on lumber tomorrow for a few jobs I have for this spring. I am going to Oregon Leather as well to get some good stuff for the bench. The stuff benchcrafted gave me with the hardware was, well not Scottish. I think they have some elephant hide I can use. I can't wait to see this store.
http://oregonleatherco.com/
I am signed up for the screwdriver swap, anyone else in?
O.K. and now to qualify to leave a comment on this thread.
Check this [email protected]#$ out!!


















http://www.bridgecitytools.com/default/tools/what-s-new/mt-1-multi-tool-aluminum.html
A bevel gauge with dovetail layout. Sweetness! Daddy wants one


----------



## jmartel

That's a cool leather shop, Bearkat. Gonna have to check them out next time I'm in Portlandia.


----------



## RGtools




----------



## WirelessWoodworker

You just had to link to Bridge City didn't you Bearkat! Now my morning is going to be useless as I drool over those tools…


----------



## CB_Cohick

> - RGtools


Oooooooooooh, shiny … Who makes those? I can't quite make out the etch.


----------



## Mosquito

Blue Spruce Toolworks


----------



## AgentTwitch

^ That 3-piece set is a tremendous value.


----------



## TheFridge

A great week for tooling up!

LN large router on order. A LV marking and transfer tool with a bunch of other LV goodies.

Even convinced my dad to buy me a LN 4 1/2 with a 55 deg frog so my wifey doesn't know =) and I can pay him back later 

I think I have a problem…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Fridge, eventually your "problem" will look something like this…









I can quit any time.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Red is that two small blocks at the very bottom? Is this like being a two-fisted drinker?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I've got such dumb luck with Lie Nielsen's that I actually found the second one at a garage sale. The tag said $30. I may have bumped into an old man snatching it.

I do sharpen them differently and use them both (hoarder justification).


----------



## bearkatwood

Red, you are a brat!
 my kind of brat.


----------



## WillliamMSP

> The tag said $30.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I'll double your money…?

Man, you suck.


----------



## jmartel

If it makes you feel any better, Red, at the hand tool event I was eyeing their violin maker's planes. I have a pretty big desire to build a Violin or a Cello, even though I have no idea how to play them at all.


----------



## bearkatwood

I play a little guitar, but I don't think it matters too much when it comes to lutherie. It is still just woodworking and it is a ton of fun if you are VERY detail oriented and patient. It is not like building a set of shelves. I think it is a very good exercise for someone wanting to build their woodworking skills, it will come back to you later on when you are stuck on something and you remember that trick you learned while making the instrument.
I agree with William  you suck Red, this forum is going to be the death of me or my wallet. The picture with all your planes tears me up, I think my youngest hand-plane is from like 1960. My oldest is a little older 18??
I don't have any plans to get a new one any time soon, but I keep seeing all the pretty planes and I feel like Lennie with the rabbits. "I want to touch the planes Red, they are so pretty. Please, can I touch the planes Red?"  
You have to imagine that last part in your best Lennie voice.








http://www.daedtoolworks.com/coffins/
Yeah, I threw down, show me some planes!


----------



## AgentTwitch

> I ve got such dumb luck with Lie Nielsen s that I actually found the second one at a garage sale. The tag said $30…
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


And I was pretty pleased with myself for snagging an early version of the Lie-Nielsen beading tool for $86. Nice score! Of course, I dont have two beading tools…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

You guys are crackin me up. Of course I don't encourage anyone to spend money they don't have, or even black male their parents (Fridge). The tools take time and money. The past five years, if I've had any extra cash from a bday, Xmas, or from furniture sales…...I spent that cash on high quality hand tools. No regrets.

That said, I have been very blessed. Years ago on LJs I shared how a fellow who'd inherited a large lot of LNs tools sought me out and sold them to me at an excellent price. Thankfully I'd just sold a big commission, or I might not have had the cash.

Even further, if you do see a neglected LN, Vertias, etc ….pick it up anyway. These tools are such high quality, it's tough to ruin them. And, it's easy to get parts! Just give the company a call.

Usually LNs go for silly prices on ebay, but I once found this neglected no4 for a pretty good price. 









She' tuned and purdy'd just fine.


----------



## bearkatwood

O.K. so taking a cue from Red, if there is anyone out there that has way too many awesome tools and is sick of looking at them and wants to find just the right person to gift them to….
 I would be honored 

I love those stories you hear about how some fancy pants maker like Red over hear hits the lottery and wins a set of frickin' Lie-Nielsen planes, are you serious. What a bug! Red I am sending you a package in the mail, it is more amazing tools, just never mind that ticking sound..


----------



## AgentTwitch

I used to have a bunch of antique Stanleys that I tuned up and put a lot of love into. Then my shop caught fire and I lost them all. Instead of replacing them with more Stanleys, I ended up replacing them with some Lie-Nielsens and havent looked back. They are wonderful tools, for sure.

Interesting story on the LN no. 66. I found a bronze beading tool that looked exactly like the LN, except it didnt have the makers mark (Raised Lie-Nielsen text), but I bought it anyway because it looked so awesome and had all of the same blades and fences as the LN figuring if it was a knock-off that it would work just like the LN. Since I live in Maine, I drove 30 minutes to the show room and brought the tool with me. I spoke with Marta who brought it to Thomas Lie-Nielsen, and he said that it was indeed a Lie-Nielsen Tool, one of the first ones he made, he could tell by the number stamped on the back. This was when he had the foundry on his home farm and finished the tools on his kitchen table. I compared it to the one in the showroom and the sole of the older beading tool is quite a bit thicker, which I like.


----------



## bearkatwood

That is a cool story.


----------



## WhoMe

> Even convinced my dad to buy me a LN 4 1/2 with a 55 deg frog so my wifey doesn t know =) and I can pay him back later
> 
> I think I have a problem…
> - TheFridge


And yet, I don't see any problem. You have a wonderful father that helps you out in your time of need and provides emotional support as well. What a GREAT father.


----------



## jmartel

Other than my 1948 delta lathe I got for free for trading some wood I wasn't using anyway, I haven't had many awesome deals on tools.

For a year or two I had some major scores on wood though. Figured claro walnut at $1/bdft for instance. Nothing that good recently though.


----------



## bearkatwood

A buck a BF is really good. I haven't had many good deals lately, though I did go to a thrift store a while back and got a PC router in small metal router table for $10.


----------



## DLK

I think what you can find all depends on where you live, and you just have to take advantage of where you are. I have had no trouble find Stanley, 3, 4, 5s. So I traded 6 of them plus some applewood for a Stanley 5 1/2. I'm sure you could trade that walnut for some nice tools.


----------



## bearkatwood

I really like the barter system, the woodworkers around here are big on it. I have traded for lumber plenty of times and always been happy with the trade.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Norm, that is a pretty cool story. I have a vintage beader, but it didn't come with cutters. I bought the LNs and they work fine. Glad they make 'em.

I'm such an LN foamer that I even have some old catalog's. Here's a '95 one. Their lineup was pretty small back then. 









How bout a LN no62 for $165? Goes to show, these tools will only go up in value. Anybody who bought one back could certainly sell it for more.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Looked around the Liberty Tool Company for a LN block plane and nada 




























Red, I have become more of a fanboy than I would like to admit with Lie-Nielsen products.


----------



## bearkatwood

Hollies Carp! Where the heck is that place? I wanna go.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Brian, it is the Liberty Tool Company located at 57 Main St, Liberty, Maine. Definately worth a visit if you find yourself in Maine.

Cool video of the place is here:





Not very many new tools to be found there.


----------



## theoldfart

A lot of my tools come from Liberty, we stop there every year on the way to Mt. Desert Island. Norm, what about Hulls Cove?


----------



## TheFridge

> Even convinced my dad to buy me a LN 4 1/2 with a 55 deg frog so my wifey doesn t know =) and I can pay him back later
> 
> I think I have a problem…
> - TheFridge
> 
> And yet, I don t see any problem. You have a wonderful father that helps you out in your time of need and provides emotional support as well. What a GREAT father.
> 
> 
> - WhoMe


He is pretty good. My favorite father. It didn't hurt that I just finished wiring up a bunch of stuff for him  plus he wants me to make him a table eventually and I definitely needed a 4-1/2 cough cough. Parental payment plans are awesome.


----------



## AgentTwitch

I had to look up Hulls Cove. It's beautiful out there.


----------



## bobasaurus

Some spokeshave action today. First thick shavings to remove bandsaw marks:










Then thin to smooth:


----------



## bearkatwood

I had to go look up Hulls Cove too. I stayed in Ellsworth on my big trip up the coast. I got to go up to the point lookout overlook on the way up there and then we did the whole loop around Harbor. Funny, Been right by it.


----------



## builtinbkyn

Can I ask because I really don't know? Is a spoke shave better for this than a plane? 


> Some spokeshave action today. First thick shavings to remove bandsaw marks:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then thin to smooth:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bobasaurus


----------



## jmartel

Unless you get a compass plane, a normal plane doesn't really do curves very well. Tends to flatten them out.


----------



## builtinbkyn

Oh that board is curved? I couldn't tell from looking at the pic, but now that you mentioned it, I do see a radius. Thanks for the explanation. 


> Unless you get a compass plane, a normal plane doesn t really do curves very well. Tends to flatten them out.
> 
> - jmartel


----------



## bobasaurus

Sorry, that board does have a large radius curve cut with a bandsaw. Otherwise I would be using a plane.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Yup. Think of a spokeshave as a hand plane with a really. really short sole. There are big sweeping curve on furniture that even a block plane wouldn't "get into" or be effect…. but a spokeshave will. Even tighter curve? Use a spokeshave with a curve sole.

-
I wan't to say something further about my earlier post regarding the "cheap" Lie Nielsen no 62s back in the day. *If there's anyone lurking this thread*, or wondering the best "value" out there to get started in Modern American Hand Tools…... It's the Low Angle Jack Plane. Lie Nielsen or Veritas….either one.

Notice that the LA Jacks are like $80 cheaper than the regular Jack Planes. That's because there's no frog - cheaper to manufacture. And, unlike the low angle vintage planes, these are made of DUCTILE cast iron, so the mouths won't blow out.

$245 isn't chump change, but it will change your woodworking. The dude from Craftsman Studio in CA does a "LA Jack challenge". He realizes if he can just get people to try the plane in the store…. it will sell itself. Plus, he offers free shipping to the rest.

I digress. But I'll leave you with some end grain butter. And this is from years ago, before I got good at sharpening.


----------



## TheFridge

Craftsman studio is the place I check first for new tools.


----------



## jmartel

Well said, Red. Only nitpick is that Craftsman studio is in WA, not CA. They're about 30-45 min north of me. Spoke with his daughter at the LN tool event.


----------



## widdle

Anyone seen that Redguy…He owes me money…


----------



## terryR

Probably the 2 best planes in production now…










So, this may increase in value over the years?










...only out of the crate ONCE.


----------



## AgentTwitch

That Wenge still calls to me when I see your replacement tote/knob set. Looks so nice.

I want a No. 52 baaaaad, but I have zero justification for one. I have been using my low angle jack and shooting board and they work great. I just picked up the hotdog that LN makes (on the same trip that I brought over my beading tool), so I could use my No. 62 more comfortably for this purpose (the hotdog fits the 7-1/2 and 164 as well). But I still want the 52. Heck, I might even need it, if nothing else, than for that lovely pine box


----------



## derekcohen

Does your LN #51 have Thomas LN's signature? Mine does (I think mine may be the only one with this)  ...










and on a Stanley #52 chute board …










All LN #4 1/2 Annivesary planes are signed by TLN. Here is mine with a #3 ..










Here's another rare LN … a first generation skew block plane (very slightly longer than the current version, different bronze, and W1 blade). I found this on eBay in derelict condition, and TLN helped restore it.










Lastly, the 1882 Miller Patent Plough Plane by Paul Hamler. This one is not for use …










Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## terryR

^oh my!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks for sharing Derek. Makes me feel less like an LN "collector";-)

Norm , supposedly an LN no 52 chuting board is in the works….but who knows how long. I never thought the plow plane would take this long.


----------



## bobasaurus

Derek, how can you identify a first gen skew block? I have an old one without the nicker that might be the same.


----------



## derekcohen

> Derek, how can you identify a first gen skew block? I have an old one without the nicker that might be the same.
> 
> - bobasaurus


This was the state of the plane I won off eBay in 2010…










I had originally planned to fix it up myself, and contacted LN for a replacement side piece. They sent one ,but it was too short.That was when we realised it was not the current model.

All the details are in this articleon my website:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRestorations/LNSkewRabbetBlockPlaneRestoration.html

Regards from Perth


----------



## AgentTwitch

Derek, I remember reading about your skew block plane experience on your blog. Thomas is a real classy gentlemen. The custom knob looks great, too.

My reference to a no. 52 was a typo. I want the no. 51 plane, not the shooting board (yet anyway).


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^I kinda thought so Norm….but you really need one if you have the other

My little DT square from Sterling toolworks arrived. Amazing, to me anyway, that a small maker can put out stuff the quality Starrett. Of course this one is specialized for woodworkers.










More about the tool:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/the-dovetail-doctor-the-sterling-dovetailing-ruler


----------



## terryR

^Have come close to pulling the trigger on that lil guy, red! Gotta support these small businesses who love what they create.

Really WANT one of their plane adjusting mallets…especially after a few hours with this…


----------



## bearkatwood

Lookin' like a nice mallet head TerryR, what kind of handle does it get?


----------



## terryR

Thanks!
Undecided, Brian. Gotta see if this actually comes out nice.


----------



## TheFridge

I think a good set of coarse through fine half round files are something I need to invest in.


----------



## byerbyer

I look forward to a BRK review on Chris' dovetail square. I've been eyeballing one for my kit for awhile now. It would've came in handy on my dresser carcass.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Really WANT one of their plane adjusting mallets…especially after a few hours with this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - terryR


Ugh. This took several hours? I've got an octagon shape hammer-head size of brass I wanted to turn into a real hammer. Now, I'm not sure. After making two plane floats, I've pretty much sworn off metalworking, and that was barely even metalworking.

Sterling hammer is nice, been drooling over that for a while.


----------



## terryR

Colonel, I must admit, I've been at it kinda slowly. Was unsure of how to proceed until yesterday. Dug out the Dremel, and made good progress!










But, yes, time consuming! Roughly 4 hours invested thus far…But, I'm pretty sure this will make a sweet tool.


----------



## Ripthorn

Terry, I know the pain of slow work. My first infill I spent a total of 6 hours just lapping the steel into relative flatness. However, it still pains me to think of. Maybe I should make another small brass hammer…after the 3 infill planes I've got going on, of course. So maybe I shouldn't…


----------



## terryR

Brian, looking forward to your next infills! They are more work than I thought, but lots of satisfaction!

Looking at mills again…vintage…ooops! LOL.


----------



## TheFridge

Goodies!




























Wasn't too happy as the back was pitted at the edge but they gave me a refund I didn't want. I don't turn down free money though. Not looking forward to lapping even if it was free.


----------



## JayT

Hey, you were supposed to have those shipped to me! Helping with the "problem" and all that stuff.


----------



## TheFridge

Sorry J, I'm ashamed of myself… I also ordered a set of convex scrapers and won an eBay auction in the last day or so =I
Please help


----------



## bobasaurus

Fridge, what wheel did you get? And is that the ebay travisher blade?


----------



## DLK

Fridge: Get a rare earth magnet or two make a handle for it/them and use it to hold small metal parts. Then I think you cold easily hold that curved blade against a belt sander or lapped it on plate.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Terry - Dremel? Duh. I've got the crappy HF version (some things at HF are good, but this is not) with a lot of grinding attachments. Dumb me never knew what to use those for. Geez, I'm an idiot. Thank you.


----------



## TheFridge

Sorry for the late reply

No, I got mine from Elia Bizzarri of handtoolwoodworking.com. I didn't want to grind my own bevel so I paid for one already ground. I will probably get a bother with a smaller radius (3-1/2" as opposed to 4-1/2").

Don, it has two countersunk holes for 8-32 screws so I think I'm good. Honestly, I'm just really tired or lapping irons of any sort.

On a side note. OMG.










I'm pretty sure it said "more daddy" after these few swipes. Impressed so far.


----------



## bearkatwood

That there's a nice chunk uv vude!


----------



## TheFridge

This is its Siamese twin brother after detachment  courtesy of Bob Summerfield


----------



## AgentTwitch

Another beautiful saw by Mr. Summerfield.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yepper. I think figured walnut is the purdiest wood grown on American soil. Not sure if I've posted my Summerfield saws on this thread. One of them is in the OP. I have a "thing" for cocobolo. 
'


















Glad you're enjoying the no 4 1/2 fridge.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Those are some beautiful cutters, Red. I love the black grain in the saw totes.

I also need to photograph some sweet tool action including the world's finest half back saw, also by Bob Summerfield. At the very least, this is a chance for me to ogle my lovelies all at once. Since our move, I havent unpacked any of my hand tools, I keep them in my "suburban America tool chests" (aka: large transparent plastic totes from the move) where the hand tools were placed lovingly back in their boxes with the protective paper film and taken out as needed. I havent built a proper tool cabinet for them in my new shop space yet.


----------



## TheFridge

Those 2 saws are the ones that broke the camels back. When I saw those I said eff it and gave bob a holler. Wife and bank account be damned. I am not regretting it  I'm actually saving that chunk of walnut for another Summerfield saw with the same length and plate but in rip.

I've only had enough time to get it setup and to take a couple swipes of the gnarliest stuff I have, out side of Amboyna burl, and I'm impressed with the tool. That thing has some weight on it too. It's a hoss.


----------



## summerfi

Fine looking saws fellers. Thanks for the comments.


----------



## bearkatwood

That is beautiful hardware there Red. That guy can turn out a saw!


----------



## DanKrager

Awesome! I have what I need and I'm still jealous.
DanK


----------



## bearkatwood

I have way more than I need, bordering on being a hoarder and I am super jealous. I want one those halfbacks he makes! Awesome stuff. I need a bigger shop to accommodate my buying needs.


----------



## TheFridge

JayT, I'm sorry. I did it again.









Edit: well, it's almost official. I hardly have a thing left I can sell. House is about cleaned.


----------



## AgentTwitch

You wont regret that router plane. Its a very classy tool.

I brought out some of the bench planes for a little TLC.



















I really like the rosewood on the no. 7 and 5-1/2. The color is so vibrant in normal day light. For those of you considering a few LN bench planes, the 4-1/2, 5-1/2, 6 and 7 can all make use of the same frog/blade. I picked up a few different angle frogs for this reason. I can also swap out blades for certain purposes. Made sense at the time, glad I did it-probably wont prevent me from picking up a no. 5 in the near future as the no. 4 is a brand new addition to my addiction.


----------



## TheFridge

Have to pay back the loan for the 4-1/2. Once that's done I'm saving for a 5 & 7. I never used my 3, 4, or 6 so I won't miss them when the times comes.

I have a small router plane with no depth stop or adjuster and it likes to dig deeper sometimes.


----------



## JayT

Well, Fridge, if you got a new LN router plane, I will expect a package in the mail with the rest of your order. Part of the therapy is to wean you off slowly. Quitting cold turkey can cause some serious withdrawal. For now, ship one to you and one to me. As we progress, more and more of the orders will have to come my way until no new tools are showing up at your house.


----------



## lateralus819

Fridge-If you have time and patience you'd be surprised how fast you can get them.

When I was off work for 2 months I restored and sold a ton of tools. Lets just say it afforded me a fleet of LN and the like.

Paid off. Didn't spend a dime other than my time.


----------



## jmartel

Still haven't gotten my first LN in the mail yet. I guess LN is having manufacturing troubles with the rabbeting block and Craftsman Studio still hasn't gotten a shipment in. Getting anxious here since I put the order in on Christmas eve.


----------



## lateralus819

^I'd be bummin.

The rabbet block is great. I just wish I had just a regular block plane.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Fridge- you're crackin me up. You're definitely in the gathering(addiction) stage. When I discovered how awesome Lie Nielsens were, I may have sold a few things I wasn't using

Norm- wonderful pics. I don't have corrugations on any of my modern planes, but I've always loved the aesthetic.

RMSaws- Those saws are every bit as impressive in person. Kinda funny, I sent Bob that sweet cocobolo board…and I didn't want to tell him how to do his work…..but he laid out the handles exactly the way I was hoping. Great minds

I haven't used my Summerfield saws a ton yet. They cut like a dream, but they do make me feel like my skill level isn't up to par wit the tool. LN planes and chisels used to make me feel that way. Now I feel like they were made for me to work with. I'm confident I will feel that way about my Summerfield saws someday.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The topic of American(Western Style) saws brings up a question for me. Is there such thing as a western style, or modern American saw that is really fine toothed for delicate cuts?

I prefer Western saws except when I'm making a little finesse cut, like a tiny shoulder…









They cut slow, but they are so easy to start and control.

I realize often Japanese saws are machine made, allowing the teeth to be that fine. Are there western alternative, or is that too much for the magnified eyes of our sawmaker?s


----------



## terryR

Love the LN show recently.

Red, I don't think so. If you find one, I'm buying! The fine teeth, thin plate, and pull-stroke cutting are awesome for fine cuts.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Bob Summerfield made this little gem from an xacto saw blade:



















Gramercy's 9-in dovetail saw is the highest PPI traditional western saw that I am aware of at up to 22PPI, but the plate is .018 thick.

And yes, that is a LN bench, I didnt build it. I am sorry.


----------



## CL810

Zona makes some inexpensive gent style saws that go as high as 42 tpi. I have a couple of their smaller, thin blade, 18-24 tpi range saws that I use occasionally. No complaints as they suit their purpose.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Wow, those little razor saws are still made in the USA.


----------



## DLK

I have a couple of gents 16 and 18 tpi.


----------



## TheFridge

The router was supposed to take another week or 2 before it shipped because their email said they ran out of castings I believe. High demand I guess.

Don't get me wrong. I like looking at a full till of planes but I only use 3 of them. So sacrifices must be made if I want to change over to LN or LV.

That one 1/2" LN chisel I bought convinced me in the beginning.

Some don't like the 0 rake on the LN dovetail saw but once you learn how to handle it it'll chew through joinery fast and clean. I love it.


----------



## BikerDad

Has anybody mentioned Council Tool yet? They are a maker of forestry/firefighting tools, Made in USA since 1886. Not a boutique company either. The "great" Swedish axes, Gransfor Bruks and Wetterlings? Some are actually copies of American axes. "Industrial" lumber harvesting combined with chainsaws gutted the North American axe industry, yet CT has survived. Council Tool has returned to the premium axe market with their Velvicut.

The Best Made Axes are Council Tool Velvicuts with hipster marketing and paint jobs.


----------



## jmartel

Red, I have one of these Zona saws that's 42tpi and has an aluminum miter box. Use it mostly for inlay trim work. Not sure why the reviews aren't good for it, it's a nice little saw that works well.

http://www.rockler.com/mini-combo-miter-saw-set?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&sid=V9146&gclid=CKzpiNP4xcsCFYeUfgodBKkL7A

I also have a 20tpi Veritas dovetail saw. Both of those should be fine enough for you.


----------



## rad457

The Zona saws are great, you can switch the blade if required to a pull stroke for better control.


----------



## mramseyISU

> Red, I have one of these Zona saws that s 42tpi and has an aluminum miter box. Use it mostly for inlay trim work. Not sure why the reviews aren t good for it, it s a nice little saw that works well.
> 
> http://www.rockler.com/mini-combo-miter-saw-set?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&sid=V9146&gclid=CKzpiNP4xcsCFYeUfgodBKkL7A
> 
> - jmartel


I've got that saw and I can't get it to make a square cut to save my life.


----------



## bobasaurus

I like the look of council tool axes. I read one review that the heat treatment hardness range is pretty large… so you might get one a little soft or brittle if unlucky.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

BikerDad- thanks for Counciltool. New to me…added to the list.

Norm- no judgement on the LN bench. For some hand toolers, that purchase might really make sense. Especially by the time a guy buys a big power jointer etc. I've been kicking around getting the LN twin vise for my bench end vise for years.

Thanks for the responses and the Zona saw info. Might also have to hit up Mr. Summerfield and see how my TPI his ol' eyes can take


----------



## b2rtch

After much research, I bought a Council Tool axe last winter.

The axe in this review is the one I bought:




http://counciltool.com/

Just in case you wanted t buy one:

http://www.baileysonline.com/Forestry-Woodcutting/Axes-Mauls/Small-Forestry-Axes/Council-Tool-Hudson-Bay-Camp-Axe-2-0-lbs-with-28-Handle-20HB28.axd


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

New takeoff of a Preston router plane from Walke &Moore tools out of upstate NY.


----------



## WillliamMSP

^^^ Oooooh. It's twice the price of an LN and I still like it - that's saying a lot.


----------



## Mosquito

I just picked up a vintage clone of a Preston at the MWTCA event a month ago, and I quite like it compared to the Stanley Design. That price, though… ouch


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That thing is sweet. I dig the versatility.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

Those Prestons are hard to come by Mos, and the price is high on this new model but those guys are on the ground floor of producing castings but they really took a good design and made it better. The market and the buyers are out there, My hats off to them and anyone out there making improvements on older designs.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm not saying it won't sell, or that the price is too high, it's just a lot of money for a router plane regardless. One could get both the LN and Veritas for around the same money.

That said, if I had the means to justify it, I would totally go with the Walke Moore myself, having used a Preston style already. Plus, to my eye, it's far and away the best looking modern router plane.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

I hear you Mos.! I have few instances for the versatility side and usually the two I own do what is needed.


----------



## AgentTwitch

I had no idea how many options those Preston style router planes provided. Very impressed.


----------



## bearkatwood

Twitch, that's the halfback I want. How does it run?


----------



## AgentTwitch

Brian, the saw cuts like butter and has excellent feedback. It handles very nice, Bob makes an excellent saw. This particular saw plate was recycled from an older saw, Bob sharpened and set the teeth and did a beautiful job.


----------



## bearkatwood

Mucho Jelly-Oso! He does make an amazing saw.


----------



## AgentTwitch

I cant stop looking at that new Walke Moore router plane. I know that I dont need one. I used to think the rectangular appearance of the Preston design was homely, but after watching that demonstration I am imaging ways where I come into ownership of this cool new take on an old plane. I dont know how much longer I will be able to resist buying a LN No. 51 or this tool. Especially since I have someone coming over to take a look at my Delta 14-651 benchtop hollow chisel mortiser that I NEVER use.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

I feel Bad that I've lured you in Norm,,,,,,,,Now bite the Cheese !


----------



## b2rtch

"I feel Bad that I've lured you in Norm" 
TheTurtleCarpenter
You should feel terrible that you lured more than just Norm but probably tens of us. 
This is a terrible thing to do, now we not only all envy you and but in addition lust after this router.
See what you did!


----------



## terryR

Bert is right.
I've been trying to justify the router even though I have TWO!

(hmmmm…keep same boots for another year, don't need a raincoat since it's summer, cancel plans for knap-in next month, ignore fleaBay for a few months, eat more p-nut butter…)


----------



## theoldfart

I have been looking for the small size Preston for a few years now, no luck.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

My birfday is in a couple weeks guys…...just saying.

Okay I'll see what the wifey says LOL


----------



## DLK

> Bert is right.
> I ve been trying to justify the router even though I have TWO!
> 
> (hmmmm…keep same boots for another year, don t need a raincoat since it s summer, cancel plans for knap-in next month, ignore fleaBay for a few months, eat more p-nut butter…)
> 
> - terryR


Just ignoring fleabay will do.



> I have been looking for the small size Preston for a few years now, no luck.
> 
> - theoldfart


Here is the small Preston for sale.

Please for the love of all things buy her before I do.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

Here's one for you Kevin.! On AUS EBay


----------



## AgentTwitch

I am so glad I am not the only one…


----------



## ToddJB

Man, at both of those prices it would just make sense to go with that new one.


----------



## theoldfart

Both are way too rich for my wallet so I'll have to settle for watching someone else get them. Go ahead Don!


----------



## Mosquito

When do we start a "Tool Collectors Mutual Fund" that's based around investments in old tools, which can then be sold later lol


----------



## DLK

So 4 of us chip in for a preston router plane and we each get to use it 1/4 of the year.
It could ship it by air along this route Minnesota, Iowa, Massachusetts, Michigan, and back.

You are correct it would be a routed air plane .


----------



## theoldfart

just a plane time share I guess


----------



## bearkatwood

> My birfday is in a couple weeks guys…...just saying.
> 
> Okay I ll see what the wifey says LOL
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I was going to get you some books, but oh well.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dang….good example of vintage prices driving you to new. I don't have a small router plane, but there is one sitting in my LN cart. And my wife has her instructions for my bday;-)

Actually, I was hoping LN would have its new plow plane unveiled by April. But, Thomas isn't giving in despite all my phone calls, emails, lighting of incense. He never wrote back. You'd think you know a guy.


----------



## jmartel

At the rate the plow plane is going, you might have to wait for your 50th bday, Red.


----------



## b2rtch

Several years back Lightning Forge made these three hold fasts for me. 
They have been working fantastic and I pay only $10.00 for each:


























Lightning Forge  
Blacksmith
Address: 4757 S 400 W, Murray, UT 84123
Phone801) 268-1838


----------



## donwilwol

An awful lot if non American vintage tool talk going on. come on Red, can't you control your constituents?

Hehehe!!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Heh. Remember Don, democracy is the freedom to elect our own dictators;-)

Nah, its hard not to talk about where the tools came from.


----------



## b2rtch

Don, who said that the tools had to be vintage?
I read that they have to be Made in the USA.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Bert, I put "made in the past 30 years or so" in the original post. There are other threads that are primarily vintage tools. I thought this forum would be nice for those of us who prefer the newer tools and makers.


----------



## b2rtch

Big Red
My hold fast were made in the past 3 or 4 years. 
So are they too old or to new?
I believe that they qualify for : "made in the past 30 years or so"
I "love" this thread , thank you for starting it.

In addition I put the name and the address of the blacksmith who made them for me to promote a local business


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bert I don't think Don was referring to your holdfast post. He was referring to the previous posts about vintage router planes 

$10 is a steal for those.


----------



## b2rtch

For anyone around SLC in Utah, I have used Lightning Forge several times for several projects. 
They always have been extremely nice, extremely helpful and very reasonable prices. 
They specialize in wrought iron,their work is spectacular.
I strongly recommend them.

Lightning Forge  
Blacksmith
Address: 4757 S 400 W, Murray, UT 84123
Phone801) 268-1838


----------



## donwilwol

i'm just bustin on Red. it's all good!

carry on!


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

Pot Stirrer.!!


----------



## bearkatwood

I got mine from the black bear forge in Colorado.
http://blackbearforge.com/


----------



## b2rtch

"I got mine"


> ?


??
Mine what?


----------



## theoldfart

Brian, the Phil Koontz style?


----------



## bearkatwood

My holdfasts.


----------



## donwilwol

> Pot Stirrer.!!
> 
> - TheTurtleCarpenter


Can't let it burn to the bottom!!


----------



## terryR

click here to pre-order my new 7 hour full-HD movie on the Jupiter Rover Landing. Filmed in the latest and highest resolution, with exciting scenes that will leave your family breathless. You can enjoy NOSO astronauts training in the most high-tech environs, and watch engineers test their skills against the harshness of the Jupiter astmosphere!

And be sure to register to win your FREE plane adjusting mallet while enjoying the movie. Made from solid brass and Ironwood, this mallet is sure to move your cutters in exact increments as you fettle your favorite hand planes!


----------



## b2rtch

'click here to pre-order my new 7 hour full-HD movie on the Jupiter Rover Landing. Filmed in the latest and highest resolution, with exciting scenes that will leave your family breathless. You can enjoy NOSO astronauts training in the most high-tech environs, and watch engineers test their skills against the harshness of the Jupiter astmosphere!"

What is that about?
Wood working in space?


----------



## donwilwol

I think Terry has been taken over by aliens!


----------



## summerfi

I think he meant juniper instead of jupiter. Woodworking with juniper can be fun, but a 7 hr movie on it would be a bit much. Consider this my registration for the mallet Terry.


----------



## b2rtch

"Jupiter Rover Landing" 
Juniper Rover Landing is not any better.
The mystery just get deeper


----------



## terryR

Sorry, bert, just a lame attempt at spam-based humor.
Free coupons for mallets just emailed to everyone to make up for it!


----------



## WillliamMSP

Free coupons for mallets or coupons for free mallets? I'll take two of the latter - don't wanna get too greedy.


----------



## b2rtch

The whole thing is just confusing for me.
So when do we go to Juniper?


----------



## terryR

> Free coupons for mallets or coupons for free mallets? I ll take two of the latter - don t wanna get too greedy.
> 
> - WillliamMSP


ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! Coupons are free all day! LOL!

bert, save the juniper for smoking on our way to jupiter.


----------



## theoldfart

Terry's on a role today, was that really field grass you were cutting? Were the tops sparkly?


----------



## knockknock

Jennifer Juniper flashback:


----------



## theoldfart

^Donovan Leach ?


----------



## knockknock

> ^Donovan Leach ?


I had to look it up, yes: Donovan Philips Leitch


----------



## donwilwol

Are we auditioning for the Big Bang Theory? I'll bet Sheldon could explain the mouth to chip breaker theory very well.


----------



## Brit

Knock Knock Penny, Knock Knock Penny.


----------



## Ripthorn

I like Big Bang Theory, though I thought the first season or two were best. Then again, I'm a physicist, so I liked the more sciencey jokes that they had going on.

On a tool related note, I'm getting close to there being one more modern American hand tool in existence…Photos should be coming in the next day or two. Let me just say that the combo of Bocote and Steel is really nice…


----------



## Brit

I'm not sure what you've been smoking Terry, but I hope you saved some for me. Lovely mallet BTW.


----------



## terryR

Lookin forward to Bocote and steel.

Wonder how long it would take to shape a fancy brass mallet using a mill?

Thanks, Andy.


----------



## August

Men I missed a lot
I really be d to order. Summer field saw half back to be exact 
Th rectangular router plane is that new? Can I buy that?
My contribution


----------



## DLK

> Knock Knock Penny, Knock Knock Penny.
> 
> - Brit


 Kock Knock Penny.

Are you trying to drive me crazy?


----------



## donwilwol

> Knock Knock Penny, Knock Knock Penny.
> 
> - Brit
> 
> Kock Knock Penny.
> 
> Are you trying to drive me crazy?
> 
> - Combo Prof


That made me chuckle!


----------



## AgentTwitch

August, The rectangular router plane is so new you can only pre-order it. Beautiful and functional manganese bronze router plane goodness from Walke Moore tools. Ships this summer. I ended up selling my benchtop hollow chisel mortiser, but am still a little short on spending money to pull the trigger. Honestly, I have two Lie-Nielsen router planes that are excellent so I am not sure why I cant look away. Anyone pre order?


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

You can't look away cause you done put your Eye in the Peep Show.!



> August, The rectangular router plane is so new you can only pre-order it. Beautiful and functional manganese bronze router plane goodness from Walke Moore tools. Ships this summer. I ended up selling my benchtop hollow chisel mortiser, but am still a little short on spending money to pull the trigger. Honestly, I have two Lie-Nielsen router planes that are excellent so I am not sure why I cant look away. Anyone pre order?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - AgentTwitch


----------



## ColonelTravis

Video of that Walke Moore router plane.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Bueno.

I don't know why I love that LN pack their tools on local newspapers. I find I can't help but flatten some out and read about whats going on in Maine.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

These little blocks really are perfect for cleaning light rust off tools…









And this part never gets old.


----------



## Ripthorn

Here's a modern American hand tool. I just finished it up.


----------



## donwilwol

I had a great idea for a plane that I started on yesterday. Let's just say some ideas should stay just that.

Luckily the swap project is doing OK.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Boy did I screw up the other day. Over tightened (inadvertently) the blade in my Knew Concepts saw (5" fret). I wasn't sure if I messed up the cam lever, because it had gotten stuck and was very hard to unlock. After it was unlocked it seemed more lose than before. I emailed the company to get their input. The designer of the saw - Lee Marshall - emailed me back and asked me some questions. He said to send it to him and he'll repair it.

Will not make that tightening mistake ever again. If you have one of these saws, just know that it's possible to damage the saw if you're an idiot like me.

But thumbs up to quality customer service for Knew Concepts. One of the great things about these smaller companies is that if you have a problem, you can usually talk to the head person and get things resolved without hassle.


----------



## AgentTwitch

> I don t know why I love that LN pack their tools on local newspapers. I find I can t help but flatten some out and read about whats going on in Maine.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Yup, Maine really is that awesome.


----------



## jmartel

Only made it to Maine a couple times, but can confirm that it's pretty great there. Probably my favorite New England state, with Vermont being very close behind.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Norm, I recently realized that the new Mortise and Tenon Magazine is also out of Maine. Is that like woodworkers haven up there?

Well, Iowa's not bad either. Lots of black walnut, and the lines at the Handworks show at Amana are proof of the woodworkers. We even have the Woodsmith store and Mag….but hand toolers don't like to claim that place.


----------



## bobasaurus

Any news of another handworks show? It was a 2 year gap between the first two, right? Attending last year was one of the best things I've ever done.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nothing announced that I know of yet Allen, but they have every intention of having it again in . It's too big of a success.

My blog about Handworks 2015 if anyone's curious.

http://www.westfallwoodcraft.com/2015/05/handworks-2015-and-mr-studley.html


----------



## AgentTwitch

I certainly like to think that Maine is one of the top handtool woodworking locations in the world, but I aso drink the hometown kool-aid. Perhaps if you consider the size of our population, we would be by per capita?

Maine's largest and most well known woodworking school is the beautiful Center for Furniture Craftsmanship - www.woodschool.org. Its a gorgeous campus right on the coast. Founded by Peter Korn and world famous. There is also the Wooden Boat School, and Landing School of Boat Building and Design that focus on handcrafted boats and yachts. There are countless other woodworking schools.

Not to mention Lie-Nielsen Toolworks, Hulls Cove Tool Barn, Liberty Tool Company, several publications, and some well known woodworkers call Maine their home. Dont know why they do with the cost of living as high as it is, but I am sure glad that they do.


----------



## bearkatwood

Wait, Iowa is a state?  
You have lots of curly maple over there too, your close to the heart of where it grows. I have been thru Iowa many times, very beautiful. I would love to be there, close to where all the woodworking show action goes down. We don't get bupkis on the Oregon coast, sure maybe and occasional show in Portland, 6 hours away.
Red you are getting good at the still shots, I like the one with the LAJ above. Has sandflex picked you up as a sponsor yet?  It never does get tired does it? My boards always end up under sized because I get too overzealous when I am planing. It is just too much fun. 
I am having some fun today with my youtube experiment, I plan to blow the shop up. Should be a blast, ha ha.


----------



## mramseyISU

> ^Bueno.
> 
> I don t know why I love that LN pack their tools on local newspapers. I find I can t help but flatten some out and read about whats going on in Maine.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I'm always looking for moose attacks in those papers. So far I've been let down.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Mostly just car attacks moose on highway.

Meanwhile, while snowmobiling in Maine: Moose Charges Snowmobilers in Jackman


----------



## JayT

> I had a great idea for a plane that I started on yesterday. Let s just say some ideas should stay just that.
> 
> - Don W


Construction issues or just something that sounds great in theory, but not in practice?


----------



## jmartel

> We don t get bupkis on the Oregon coast, sure maybe and occasional show in Portland, 6 hours away.
> - bearkatwood


Probably because other than fisherman and loggers, there aren't many people that live out on the coast. That surprises me considering I grew up on the East Coast where if it's close to water, it's crowded. I stayed down in Port Orford and did some work in Reedsport last year.


----------



## bearkatwood

I have driven up the eastern seaboard and the western and there is a huge difference, but I imagine eventually it will be similar, it has grown quite a bit and the property values have skyrocketed. The Government owns much of the coastal lands and what is left over is being developed quickly. 
With all the timber industry here I would have thought there were more fine woodworkers, but it seems much more sparse than some eastern states like Red was talking about the lines at the show.


----------



## theoldfart

Norm, we're supposed to be keeping Hulls Cove/Liberty a secret! Can't wait each year for my annual vacation rust rendezvous vintage tool buyn' orgy. I have an spent an entire afternoon in Hulls Cove.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I haven't really had a chance to post some of the tools I have for this thread, but wanted to do this specially in honor of Ripthorn's most recent hand plane build. The tiny plane with bocote infill and the infill shoulder plane are Ripthorn made. A couple of planes from LN, and some handsaws from TerryR. Also a carvers mallet from SASmith.










Carry on.


----------



## ToddJB

We did both on our trip to Maine.

They own another location on the way from Liberty to Hulls - Captain Tinkhams:

http://www.jonesport-wood.com/captaintink.html

When I was up there we drove by it, but it's only open on the weekend 

But the folks at Liberty, Hulls, and a random Apple Orchard we stopped at all said that was the place to find the real treasures.

Edit: Dang Paul, awesome.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Never been to Maine….or anywhere in the northeast. I'll remedy that someday.

Good stuff Paul.

Btw, there is a fishtail chisel in the OP (original post). It's Hammerthumb made….and it is schweeet.


----------



## rad457

Local wood supplier has started to carry some L.N. stuff and these little puppy followed me home!
I think I will keep him in the shop so the Wife dosn't find him.


----------



## ksSlim

Very Nice.
I need one, NOW.
I keep getting BO from LN.
Where's your guy?

slim


----------



## rad457

> Very Nice.
> I need one, NOW.
> I keep getting BO from LN.
> Where s your guy?
> 
> slim
> 
> - ksSlim


*W.G.Chanin Hardwoods in Edmonton Alberta.* A Little bit out of the way for you! Next trip a D.T. saw may talk it's way into the shop?


----------



## AgentTwitch

Nice 212, Andre! I need to test drive one of these because they look soo cool. I think they make one with a groove in it for building bamboo fly rods.

Speaking of hardwoods and dovetail saws, I have had another saw making itch that I have been scratching lately. I am making two dovetail saws (instead of a screw driver for the upcoming screw driver swap, oopsie. I need to get on that) and have been having fun building one from scratch and the other as a western backsaw conversion from a gents saw. I was hoping to score some apple for one of these but had to resort to my small stash of figured maple. I used the other half of the African blackwood for the DT saw from scratch.

Anyone have experience with katalox lumber? I have been eyeballing it as well as orange agate for decent substitutes for cocobolo and the katalox for more expensive ebonies.


----------



## donwilwol

> I had a great idea for a plane that I started on yesterday. Let s just say some ideas should stay just that.
> 
> - Don W
> 
> Construction issues or just something that sounds great in theory, but not in practice?
> 
> - JayT


It was.probably more my ego thinking my skills with metal work was better than they really are, or it was a bad day, or I just haven't overcome the learning curve on the mill, or something along all of those lines.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Anyone have experience with katalox lumber? I have been eyeballing it as well as orange agate for decent substitutes for cocobolo and the katalox for more expensive ebonies.
> 
> - AgentTwitch


Never used either Norm. To clarify, are you trying to avoid the high cost of ebony and cocobolo, or are you having trouble finding some?


----------



## AgentTwitch

Mostly attempting to avoid the high costs. I cant get over how much cocobolo has shot up in price. Orange Agate looks like a nice substitute and I can find larger blanks for easily half the price.

Katalox is more of an interest as I have never used it, but it rates well and larger sizes are easy enough to find.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Stopped by Liberty Tool company and snagged some 42x saw sets and a millers falls 2a today. Not exactly modern, but it is awesome.










I also scored some promo tiger and quilted maple. Small gloat. This is still in the rough…


----------



## woodcox

Nice haul Norm. That Goodell-Pratt no. 49 looks pretty clean. What is that white mark on the handle? A label?


----------



## esmthin

Nice haul, Norm. If you don't mind me asking, how much did all of the tools cost you?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Lustworthy lumber too.

Got the long jaws for my LN guide. My spokies have never been so sharp.


----------



## AgentTwitch

The white marks are all price tags. I bought some more tools as part of the bundle for around $40. The saw sets were $6 each, the Goodell Pratt was $5. The 2A also has 4 of the bits bits in the handle.


----------



## byerbyer

Gotta get me one of these! 





View on YouTube


----------



## AgentTwitch

I love the work they put into April 1st!


----------



## jmartel

I gotta say, I'm partial to Lie-Nielsen's.


----------



## byerbyer

^Lie Nielsen's was wonderful too.


----------



## AgentTwitch

I feel as though they should have made it the plow plane…


----------



## byerbyer

In all seriousness, I have a Veritas MKII Standard Set Honing Guide (top pic below) that I'm likely going to put up on the bay. It works fine, but I find the setup a bit tedious to get the blade centered & 90° to the guide. 
Figured I give the guys on the modern tool forum first crack. $50 & I'll cover shipping sound fair?


----------



## byerbyer

^Sold


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^There ya go. I don't use the MKII anymore. Went to freehand….then the LN guide. Man, that MKII sure helped me out in the early days. Taught me how to micro bevel etc.

Since we're going there, I have an extra LN tapered dovetail saw. Used, but in very good shape and sharp. $80 shipped in the US, paypal. PM if you want it.


----------



## jmartel

Damn that's a good price, Red.

Once I can get off my butt and make a dovetail saw, my LN will go up for sale as well. I've thought about getting rid of my Mk. II sharpener since I go freehand now and don't do a micro bevel anymore, but it's still useful for resetting initial bevels.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> ^There ya go. I don t use the MKII anymore. Went to freehand….then the LN guide.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Just for clerical purposes - you went from guide to freehand and back to a guide? Is the LN that good? I've got the MkII and been pleased with it. I tend to sharpen things in bunches, which is why I don't mind a guide vs. freehand.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Is the LN that good? Imo….yes. Did a review on it….

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/6682


----------



## byerbyer

I plan on getting the LN guide in the near future.


----------



## ColonelTravis

whoa, how'd I miss that? Thanks Red, I'll check it out. Today one of these arrived in the mail from LV.










Haven't put any holes in my bench except on the leg for holdfasts. I still don't know how many at this point, I'm getting along without them for the most part. But planing thin boards is tough because my plane stop at the end of the bench is makeshift and a pain sometimes to keep clamping and unclamping. This thing stays flush in the bench and because Paul Sellers has convinced me to follow his lead on this (and so many things) I said - I'm getting one!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

LN saw is sold. I had two(tapered and not). Figured I'd hook somebody up.

Making you guys nervous?


----------



## Brit

That's a great haul Norm. Over here, you'd expect to pay around £40 for a 42X in good working order and you only see one once in a blue moon.

Red - No, but that block plane might end up with a headache.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Someone scored a sweet DT saw for an excellent price.

Wow, that is crazy Andy! I would never have guessed that they were that desirable. I am curious what the Goodell-Pratt No. 49 goes for online. I cant find anything about it, but it seems like a sweet little drill. Might keep it for my girls.


----------



## woodcox

I think I paid 20 or so for mine and have seen the no. 49 go for 40 or so like yours. There is an identical model with a chuck to hold fluted drill points that are seldom seen and priced to match.

I use mine often colonel. They are kind of fun to mortise down into your top. I had an early errant dog hole that I installed it over. I don't get crazy scrubbing with it but it is very convienient most of the time.


----------



## AgentTwitch

$20-40 on eBay for a $5 purchase is a win in my book. Thanks for the info, woodcox!


----------



## jmartel

Got word that my rabbeting block finally got to CS from LN, so I should have it by the end of the week. Total wait time will have been 3 1/2 months when it arrives.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dang, that wait sure stinks. I will say, I'm always baffled at how small of an operation Lie Nielson is. They really do make tools in small batches according to demand.

Check the date stamp on the boxes or envelopes sometime. I received an order with some small things the other day, None of the dates on my goodies were more than a month ago.


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, I'm not real happy about it. But considering I paid with gift cards that I got for christmas and only spent about $1 of my own money, I'll deal with it. Plus I wasn't working on anything where it needed the plane, so I could stand to wait. The bed will need it though.


----------



## DLK

> Got word that my rabbeting block finally got to CS from LN, so I should have it by the end of the week. Total wait time will have been 3 1/2 months when it arrives.
> 
> - jmartel


What is CS?


----------



## woodcox

Craftsman studios I believe sir.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Here and I thought he bought it from Chris Schwarz

Craftsman Studio is always a good option for LN stuff. I like the support the company direct, but CS offers free shipping. Oh ya!


----------



## WillliamMSP

Free shipping? ORLY? I've been wanting to pick up an LN chisel or two - 1/2" not in stock right now, but I don't need one urgently. I'll bookmark and check back later.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

This was at 666 posts. I felt that needed to change. I got a bad axe tenon saw that should be shipping this week!


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> Got word that my rabbeting block finally got to CS from LN, so I should have it by the end of the week. Total wait time will have been 3 1/2 months when it arrives.
> 
> - jmartel


I don't have a block plane yet and I've been strongly considering the LN rabbet block.


----------



## rad457

Depending on what you build the LN rabbet block may be to much? As a rabbet plane it is fantastic! I have it and a LN 102 which gets 90% more use overall, that said I picked up the LV apron plane awhile back and really like it with the PMV-11 iron


----------



## WirelessWoodworker

I went with the LN rabbeting block as my first block plane a few years ago and it's served me very well. It's still my only block plane as I haven't felt the need to get another one. It's the only plane that lives on my bench full time.

That being said, if I designed my tool kit again I probably would go with the LN 102 for a block. The different shoulder planes and skew rabbet plane have pretty much replaced the rabbet block for most rabbeting work.

Can't go wrong either way!


----------



## jmartel

> Depending on what you build the LN rabbet block may be to much? As a rabbet plane it is fantastic! I have it and a LN 102 which gets 90% more use overall, that said I picked up the LV apron plane awhile back and really like it with the PMV-11 iron
> 
> - Andre


I've got an old Stanley #65 for general block plane work. This is for joinery and getting into corners.


----------



## CL810

Lie Nielsen honing guide and Norton 8000 grit water stone arrived today. Oh my! Took my sharpening up a level. The honing guide is worth the money. It really is that good.

Ya, ya, ya, I know, you were right Red. ;-)

I've had the DMT Dia-sharps for several years and I'm going to qualify my opinion by saying it needs the test of time, but I don't think the extra fine diamond stones compare to the 8000 grit water stone. I could tell an improvement right away. One thing I really like about this water stone is you do not have to soak it in water. You only have to spritz it when in use.


----------



## jmartel

CL, you should pick up a 13000 grit stone. It's friggen magical. The surfaces left behind by a blade taken to that stone are polished.


----------



## CL810

I had no idea there was a 13k stone. What is best for keeping the water stones flat? Coarse diamond stone?


----------



## WillliamMSP

Coarse diamond works for me, but it can take a little time and elbow grease if decent hollow gets worked in to there - I'd kind of like to try Extra Course. Also, I'm wondering if an interrupted surface diamond stone would be better - mine gets vacuu-sucked on to the stone pretty readily, which I usually take as my cue to break the seal and rinse off both pieces.


----------



## jmartel

I don't know if Norton makes a 13k stone, but mine is a Sigma Power ceramic stone. Shapton makes them as well. Shapton goes all the way up to 30k, even.

And the set of stones I got from Tools From Japan included a 400 grit diamond stone for flattening. Works very quickly. Especially if you give it a quick flattening after each blade.


----------



## byerbyer

> I had no idea there was a 13k stone. What is best for keeping the water stones flat? Coarse diamond stone?
> 
> - CL810


I use a Dia Sharp Extra-Extra Course flatten my Norton stones. Works pretty slick.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> I don t know if Norton makes a 13k stone, but mine is a Sigma Power ceramic stone. Shapton makes them as well. Shapton goes all the way up to 30k, even.
> 
> And the set of stones I got from Tools From Japan included a 400 grit diamond stone for flattening. Works very quickly. Especially if you give it a quick flattening after each blade.
> 
> - jmartel


I've heard that Shaptons aren't as 'fine' a stone as some others. Their 8k is equal to a sigma 5k etc… This is just what I've seen other people post.


----------



## terryR

+101 to the LN honing guide. Solid, and worth the high price of admission! Already dropped mine TWICE on the concrete floor. Love SS.

Waiting for a 13K diamond stone…would be sweet! The 160 grit is a great addition to the shop if you restore old planes or shape your own steel for cutters. No more sandpaper glued to my jointer for fast, controlled removal of stock.


----------



## putty

Terry, whatcha makin? a plate holder?


----------



## AgentTwitch

So I guess I know what my next LN purchase is going to be…Sharpening jig with long jaws for spoke shaves.


----------



## PTT

I have a MIllers Falls 76, that is new, in original manufacturers box/packaging. It has been in my possession since being received from factory. The box has not been opened. I believe it was manufactured by MF around 1990. I may be able to find original packing-slip from its purchase. The box has not been opened. I will open box and take photos if anyone is interested. Would like to find a "good home" for it.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

Just got this beauty in:


----------



## CL810

The saw will be handy when you cut your leg tenons and mortises. Very nice.

Now get back to work on your bench! ;-)


----------



## terryR

Lovely saw!

putty, very close, a holder for a pine needle basket.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Bulldog - awesome saw, but more envious of the BC wagon vise, which is a killer modern American tool in its own right.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> The saw will be handy when you cut your leg tenons and mortises. Very nice.
> 
> Now get back to work on your bench! ;-)
> 
> - CL810


I am letting my lumber acclimate for a week or two. I'm anxious to get going, and I know that it's already kiln dried..but the humidity difference between Michigan and Louisiana is probably pretty severe


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Bulldog - awesome saw, but more envious of the BC wagon vise, which is a killer modern American tool in its own right.
> 
> - WillliamMSP


Got their crisscross leg vise hardware - highly recommended if anyone wants a new leg vise, or convert.


----------



## rad457

Got the Mortise and Tenon magazine today, Pictures are inspiring and maybe someday in my dreams I can acquire a fraction of that talent! Did order the VERITAS scrapper plane, Lee Valley free shipping gets me every time.


----------



## Ripthorn

Veritas offers a scrapper plane? I have several, mostly old rusty beaters, but boy are they good at turning wood into scraps! (Andre, I'm just giving you a bad time  )


----------



## rad457

LOL! Working of my tablet, small keyboard and big fingers? Or way to late to be looking at and commenting on Wood Porn!!!!! Who cares order was shipped, time to head home before the wife finds out


----------



## Ripthorn

I'm making an infill from an old, busted up Stanley #4. Making the tote from really curly maple and needed it smoothed out. Tried a 45 degree Krenov style smoother first, no joy. Out comes the 55 degree little smoother I made last year, left the most beautiful surface (image is not staged, that is exactly how the shavings spilled out):


----------



## jmartel

> Veritas offers a scrapper plane? I have several, mostly old rusty beaters, but boy are they good at turning wood into scraps! (Andre, I m just giving you a bad time  )
> 
> - Ripthorn


Yes, and so does Lie-Nielsen. I want one, but others are higher on the list.


----------



## rad457

*Yes, and so does Lie-Nielsen. I want one, but others are higher on the list.*

I have the small Lie Nielsen one but found the bigger Veritas more user friendly. (and CAN $ plus free shipping!)


----------



## August




----------



## byerbyer

Tommy got some more of my money last week.


----------



## SASmith

Looking good, AML


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Gitter done Auggie.

Byer, how you liking the honing guide? Sounds silly, but my favorite feature is that it only takes thumb tension to hold any blade firmly.


----------



## terryR

Nice tool porn, guys.

'restored' my 4 1/2 the other day…


----------



## byerbyer

> Byer, how you liking the honing guide? Sounds silly, but my favorite feature is that it only takes thumb tension to hold any blade firmly.
> - BigRedKnothead


The honing guide was worth the wait. I've only used it to touch up a couple chisels so far, but I'm hoping to knock out a set board and put all my blades through the paces too.


----------



## rad457

Look what showed up on the doorstep! Managed to sneak it into the shop and compare it to the L.N little guy!
Veritas works right out of the box but no curl on the blade so guess it needs some attention.


----------



## DanKrager

Andre, before you go to the trouble to put the curl on that new blade, use it for awhile, especially on some highly figured stuff to see if the curl is really needed. I have a vintage one and it seemed to do very well without the curl. I did experiment and put a curl on it, and it did much better on softer woods. So it may depend on what you are scraping….maybe two blades? I'm considering it.

DanK


----------



## rad457

Thanks for the advise. I did get the extra A 2 blade, wish they had a PMV-11! I have been quite happy with the little L.N. with just the stock iron, have been working on some Walnut that has some interesting grain to it especially around some small knots.


----------



## Ripthorn

Here's a little old American meets new American:



It was a fun, pretty straight forward project.


----------



## byerbyer

Question for the panel: Anyone have experience with both the Grammercy & Auriou Rasps and have a preference? Neither are made in the US but they seem to be best bang for you buck.


----------



## builtinbkyn

I have a 10" 11grain Auriou. It cuts well and leaves a clean finish, but have nothing to compare it to other than some big box store rasps I have rattling around in my tool bag. I don't think there's a comparison.

Gramercy Tools is about a mile or so from my house so I've been there pretty often. Their rasps are pretty nice as well. Only handled them at the display in the store. They didn't have their branded rasp in stock in the version I wanted at the time so I went with the Auriou.

I was there the other day to pick up a float in their brand, but that wasn't in stock either. They've recently moved to a new location, close to their original location, but I think the move has taken precedence over restocking, at the moment.



> Question for the panel: Anyone have experience with both the Grammercy & Auriou Rasps and have a preference? Neither are made in the US but they seem to be best bang for you buck.
> 
> - byerbyer


----------



## rad457

> Question for the panel: Anyone have experience with both the Grammercy & Auriou Rasps and have a preference? Neither are made in the US but they seem to be best bang for you buck.
> 
> - byerbyer


Japanese Milled-Tooth Files from Lee Valley may be another option? I have picked up a few and they seem to work quite well.


----------



## bobasaurus

I have a gramercy and some aurious. The aurious feel sharper and remove material faster, but the gramercy leaves about the same finish.


----------



## terryR

unfortunately, I can say from experience that Gramercy rasps don't last nearly as well as Auriou. Have a saw handle maker's rasp from Gramercy that is already dull after ?3 years. Noticeably so. I'll admit to using it a ton, especially on very tough briar while shaping pipes, so I suppose i got my money's worth from it? But my Aurious are just as old and still sharp.

Also, the ferrule came off my Gramercy after just a few months of use. Easy to replace the whole handle, but unexpected. My other Gramercy that has seen less use has a loose ferrule. No more Gramercys for my shop!

Love their saws…


----------



## ToddJB

Wish I would have known Terry's experience before buying a set of Gramercy rasps. So far they are working great and I am pleased, but not tons of time in on them yet. But I do agree their handles are weak for a higher end tool.


----------



## Mosquito

> Also, the ferrule came off my Gramercy after just a few months of use. Easy to replace the whole handle, but unexpected. My other Gramercy that has seen less use has a loose ferrule. No more Gramercys for my shop!
> 
> - terryR


I had the same problem with my Handle makers rasp from day 1. Handle also falls off from time to time, but still gets the job done for fairly cheap


----------



## WhoMe

Please don't take this the wrong way but I take it that if we make our own plane, it is considered a modern hand tool? I'm curious as I just finished my first Krenov style plane and didn't know if it is ok to post here as well as the hand plane thread. Because I surely don't consider myself a modern hand tool maker and I don't want to dilute the intention of this great thread.
Thanks


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Sounds modern and American to me Mike. Post away. Toolmakers have to start somewhere.

I've yet to venture into premium rasps other than the Gramercy handle makers. I suppose I'd need a sculpted project to justify them.


----------



## WhoMe

Thanks red. I'll have to post later when I'm in wifi range. Easier to upload the pics. I'll post my second joiners mallet while I'm at it.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Bummer about the Gramercy rasps. I have the Gramercy handle makers rasp and my ferrule is still holding strong. The cut quality and sharpness of the Auriou is far superior to the Gramercy. The Auriou rasps are excellent, I would recommend them to anyone.


----------



## WhoMe

Well here you go, my first modern attempt /interpretation of a classic krenov style plane. Bubinga core, yellowheart sides, pin and wedge of walnut, 1 3/4" wide hock blade w/chipbreaker, 55 degree bed angle. And a joiners mallet of the same materials. Both fun to make

































Btw, when I get the plane adjusted well, it does work well on really figured wood. Leaves a real nice finish with no tear out. Hard to push though. 
It is the closest I will get to a modern hand tool beyond Stanley chisels till I can get either a saw or a plane. In the mean time, I'll enjoy the finer tools through you guys.


----------



## Handtooler

Beautiful work, Sir! Both are tools to be proud of and used. My similar mallet isn't nearly as ellegantfrom pecan..


----------



## WhoMe

Thanks, like my first mallet of maple and cherry, it Wil get used a lot. The plane won't get used as much because of what I built it for but it will get used. Eventually I want to make a half set of hollows and rounds, a moving fillister and a couple other wooden ones. But that will take time.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, just don't use that mallet on that plane;-)

Good stuff Mike.


----------



## WhoMe

Red, I actually do use the mallet on the plane, for setting the wedge ands when I hit the tail of the plane to release the blade and wedge to rehone the blade. 
I'm in the process of figuring out how to make myself a brass headed plane hammer to adjust the blade better. I have a co-worker that is a machinist who can machine the brass head to my specs and I'll turn the handle. I have more yellowheart and bubinga so the handle might make a complete matching set.
Has anyone on this thread made a plane hammer that can shed some advice or recommendations on size/design? I'll have to do a search.

I do know that making tools is way fun. Now I know why other tool makers do it. It is pretty addicting.


----------



## terryR

Mike, you certainly need a plane adjusting mallet! 

I think 7/8" diameter is pretty standard. I just shaped this one, roughly 3" long, weighs 4.8 oz.


----------



## bobasaurus

Terry, that came out great. All lathe work with files? Did you also file the flats?


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Allen. I used carbide chisels to shape most of the brass, then files for finishing. and a dremel carving tool to remove most material for the flats, then files again. Only took 5 hours this time.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Terrific hammer head. Carbide chisel is a lathe or non-lathe chisel?


----------



## terryR

wood lathe chisel.
Easy wood tools.


----------



## woodcox

Awsome work Terry.


----------



## BillWhite

I want one of the hammer heads. I'll trade you my lawn mower. 
Bill


----------



## AgentTwitch

I think I have talked myself out of the Walker Moore router plane for now. But I get this funny feeling that the Lie-Nielsen 98 and 99 side rabbet plane set will find their way from the showroom to my workshop real soon…The real question is, will it come before I get the honing jig?


----------



## WhoMe

Terry, nice head you got there….
A plane adjustment hammer is in the works on my end. A co-worker has a machine shop in his garage. I questioned him on a couple design ideas Ann's the next day he brought a bronze piece 1" dia x 4" long partially machined on one end. I took it home, did some design work for what I felt would work good, gave him the piece with a crude plan. I'm betting I'll have a finished piece by the weekend. All I'll need to do is turn a handle, out of bubinga and yellowheart, of course. It has to match. Lol
Will post when it is finished.

Agent, I have an original 98 with depth stop and I use it often. Finding a good matching 99 is a challenge. I might do the LN route sooner than I want. Having seen and used the LN versions, they are a really good choice.


----------



## TheFridge

Can't go wrong with a LN or veritas router. Have the LN myself.

LN7 and set of card scrapers comin. Gotta love new credit cards. Gotta help build credit somehow right ?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yes Fridge….


----------



## TheFridge

Also picked up a 45 this week. Don't know how I feel about it yet until I modify some irons.

It's not over yet red. Selling a Stanley 3, 4-1/2, 5, 5, & 6 tomorrow.

I use a lot of dirty wood. Thinking scrub to begin with and will go from there. The 45 was bought with the down payment. Didn't want to spend the rest before he had the planes in his hands. (Good friend of mine that lives in the boonies)


----------



## DLK

How/why would you modify the irons of the 45?


----------



## WhoMe

> How/why would you modify the irons of the 45?
> 
> - Combo Prof


That was going to be my question unless you mean sharpen instead of modify


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That Canadian glue-up weight was worth every penny.


----------



## WhoMe

Thanks Red, now I have to add those to my list of "needs". A couple Canadian glue weights with what sounds like a 5 star review.
But aren't they like clamps, they need to be bought in pairs to be really effective. Where is the matching one????


----------



## TheFridge

I say modify because I want to able to chamfer and edge. I've tried it out with a fence I can sink the iron into to get the part of a profile I want but really what I'm looking for is just some quarter round irons. I don't know if they made/make them but I'll probably just make them as needed with some I useable irons.

Edit: I could really use a skewed plow. But one thing at a time


----------



## DLK

Fridge I think what you do is sell the 45 and buy a 55. Then you can angle the fence. Or buy a 46 to get a skewed plow.


----------



## WhoMe

Wait, so, a skewed plough is not when you turn your head sideways when using a plough??

No wonder it's not working for me…....


----------



## woodcox

Maybe add Blue Spruce Toolworks to the links in the op. They are having a special on their resin infused small marking knives. The .020" blade option sounds sweet, that little bit of flexibility could be nice. 
http://www.bluesprucetools.com/cgi/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=SPCL


----------



## Lazy_K

I am liking kits and homemades:
Gramercy turning saw kit









I also, am liking the upsurge in high quality American made hand tools. but some of the prices are too high for my liking.
be well, count your fingers


----------



## August

I don't know if this a place for this
Anyway since I started building my kitchen I've been using my shooting board almost each joint of the doors or cabinets
But last 4 days ago or so it had a battle with my GS dog
And let's just say that the dog won
Anyway here's what


----------



## ToddJB

Is it designed so that thinner stock uses the whole blade? Equal wear on blade.


----------



## Brit

> I don t know if this a place for this
> Anyway since I started building my kitchen I ve been using my shooting board almost each joint of the doors or cabinets
> But last 4 days ago or so it had a battle with my GS dog
> And let s just say that the dog won
> Anyway here s what
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


You kind of left us hanging there August. Are you trying to build suspense? Shall we guess what the end of the last sentence should be? LOL. My guess is: "Anyway here's what it looks like now."

I think as a punishment you should make your German Shepherd finish the kitchen on his/her own.


----------



## theoldfart

Augie, doesn't the angle on the shoot board negate the skew angle of the plane?

BTW good to hear from you again, missed your posts!


----------



## August

Haha Brit damn I phone no pc 
The oldfart 
It still cut like a skew 
I can shoot a board 12" and it will start from the top and ends on the bottom 
I think?









Anyway here are some pics of my work 
In the kitchen


----------



## Mosquito

August, I thought you kept saying you weren't a woodworker? lol Kitchen is looking great


----------



## JayT

Maybe they're metal cabinets with wood veneer? 

Yeah, I think August is done being able to claim he's not a woodworker. He'll have to find a different excuse because the kitchen looks really good.


----------



## donwilwol

Nice kitchen. I agree, woodworker all the way. That's a lot of nice work.


----------



## byerbyer

Kitchen looks great, August.


----------



## theoldfart

August the woodworker/machinist/repo-man. That should cover it. Real nice kitchen sir!


----------



## TheFridge

August, you're making us look bad with your progress.


----------



## Brit

August that is amazing. Nice job!


----------



## DanKrager

Well, first things first. That level you are using gives it away. A real woodworker would be using a much longer one! LAWL! You have to go outside to turn that around, don't you?

Yah, no more "I'm not a woodworker" excuses. These pictures prove differently…unless it's someone else's kitchen.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Oh, that's a level? I thought it was a glue lam waiting to lifted into place! My bad.


----------



## August

Thanks for all the kind words folks
Don
Moss 
Brit 
Dan
Firdge 
Bye 
The old 
I learn a lot form this site and YouTube and Google images


----------



## TheFridge

Just glad to see you're still lurking August.










Summerfield saw earning it's keep


----------



## CL810

Recently, while making some half blind DTs, I concluded I needed Sterling's 4" dovetail square set for a number of reasons.










The main reason was the difficulty of checking for square with my vintage 4" double square. These pics don't show as well as I like how much better it is with the new square, but my photo skills just aren't there…



















The satin chrome finish is so easy to read I know it will become my go to square. The only "deficiency" is that the rules are .008" too thick to fit the Starrett double square so I'm looking into buying a second stock. It never ends….


----------



## August

Thanks fridge
I want one of that square Cl

My donations for tonight


----------



## CL810

Auggie, don't make us drive to Chi-town to find out more - spill the beans on that plane.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Anyone own the Veritas skew rabbet? I've read others who didn't use it much, guess it was more proficient for them to do the jobs another way. Just wanted to gauge it's usefulness because I do most everything by hand.


----------



## jmartel

Haven't had anything new to put up in here in a while, but here's some new members to my tool arsenal.

Shooting plane was from Lateralus. Rabbeting block plane I ordered on Christmas eve and took until yesterday to arrive. Apparently issues at the factory or something. Not super happy about that, but I have it now, so that's all that matters.










Also, not that it will count in this thread, but I'll be buying some Japanese chisels in the next day or two. Hopefully I'll get them in a month or so. Lead time plus shipping from Japan means you don't get anything quickly.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Holy crap that thing just arrived?! Oh well, Merry Christmas! Was using mine today and thought - man I really like this plane. The only thing I haven't mastered with it is end grain. I must not be sharpening it enough even though I think I am. Don't do anything different than my other blades, which cut wonderfully. It may be a moot point once I get my shooter.


----------



## bobasaurus

I have the RH skew rabbet and hardly use it, though I do respect it for being a very unique interesting tool. It's very fiddly to setup, and hard to keep straight in use. I need to practice with it more, maybe add an auxiliary fence.


----------



## jmartel

Yeah. I asked my parents and my MIL for gift cards to Craftsman Studio for Christmas, which they did. I figured since they are local to me and had free shipping anyway that I'd buy through them instead of Lie-Nielsen. Apparently I should have just bought from Lie-Nielsen. LN never showed a backorder on their site. CS had one listed in stock when I ordered, and then after I ordered they said it was actually on back order and the site messed up. Every other week or so I'd email, and the response was "factory says we should get some in 2 weeks" etc. for 5 1/2 months.

The owner of CS was emailing with me and was at least apologetic. So I can't really fault him for something out of their control.


----------



## terryR

Damn fine work, Fridge.

Lotta love for the Sterling squares. Must have!


----------



## CL810

Ya Terry, I do like mine but the Vespers are certainly worth a look see. I just learned that Highland Woodworking is now carrying them.



> Lotta love for the Sterling squares. Must have!
> 
> - terryR


----------



## ColonelTravis

Allen, thanks. Two-part question: what jobs did you try working with that plane? Did you find better ways with hand tools or power?


----------



## bobasaurus

I used it to try making breadboard ends on a curly maple lap desk:

http://i.imgur.com/JDEOxy7.jpg

It was tricky to setup, but seemed to cut well. The problem was it tended to cut at an angle since the fence only had a small registration area, giving me nonsquare rabbets. So I switched to the table saw for the other side.

In the future I'll build a bench that can properly use holdfasts, then use the edge of the bench to guide the plane fence.


----------



## bobasaurus

Also, the blade tends to skew left or right as you adjust depth. The only way I found to make it work was to loosen the lever cap a bit, use my thumb to press the blade against the two setscrews, adjust the depth while holding blade pressure with my thumb, then tighten the lever cap.


----------



## bobasaurus

August, what the heck is that little brass plane? It looks really neat.


----------



## August




----------



## jmartel

Did you make an infill, August?


----------



## TheFridge

August, you can't just tease up like that 

new scrub a dub dub


----------



## ColonelTravis

Allen, thanks for the input. Breadboard ends was one of the jobs I had in mind for this thing. Maybe also to trim ahead for a molding plane. Wish I lived close to a store that sold these things so I could try it out. Still on the fence about buying it.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Geez, I want a LN scrub, too. Use a slightly modded 5 for now. Can a real scrub can get the job done more efficiently?


----------



## TheFridge

I have a 5 that works ok. Just dont like using it.

#1 thing I like so far with the scrub is that it's smaller than a 5 by a good margin. Easier for me to scoop the dirty wood out of low spots without wasting time on just trying to scrub an area just so the plane can get to the dirty wood. Does that make sense? Much much quicker for me.

I dimension with a jointer and planer so I just want to see fresh wood that won't kill my knives.


----------



## theoldfart

A scrub is way faster, either a 40 or 40 1/2. Mine are vintage, I don't see an advantage to the new ones since it is a rough tool.


----------



## Brit

I want a LN scrub plane too. Vintage scrubs are not available here and once you've paid the postage from the US, it makes sense to just buy a new one from LN.


----------



## TheFridge

True, no advantage really. Me, im just lazy and didn't feel like cleaning up a vintage one.


----------



## Brit

I hear that Fridge. I'm buying more new tools now for that very reason. It is satisfying to restore vintage tools and give them new life, but there's only so many hours in a weekend if you know what I mean.


----------



## mramseyISU

> A scrub is way faster, either a 40 or 40 1/2. Mine are vintage, I don t see an advantage to the new ones since it is a rough tool.
> 
> - theoldfart


The only "advantage" I can see to a new one is that the old ones are bringing a premium on the bay for some reason and you can get a new one for just a bit more money with a ductile iron casting instead of grey iron. Now if you can steal one like I did for $40 the old ones work just fine.


----------



## rad457

New to this hand plane thing, started with Wood Krenov planes that I did not like to use on rough wood.
Picked up a older Stanley 5 1/4 and put a PMV-11 iron in her and really impressed with how it levels and
smooths out a rough board. Not sure the age and is made in Canada?


----------



## TheFridge

> A scrub is way faster, either a 40 or 40 1/2. Mine are vintage, I don t see an advantage to the new ones since it is a rough tool.
> 
> - theoldfart
> 
> The only "advantage" I can see to a new one is that the old ones are bringing a premium on the bay for some reason and you can get a new one for just a bit more money with a ductile iron casting instead of grey iron. Now if you can steal one like I did for $40 the old ones work just fine.
> 
> - mramseyISU


I could've went with veritas or a cheaper scrub. Maybe even get lucky and get one on eBay but I got tired of looking and tired of refurbs. I sold my grizzly track saw for 150$ and already had 20$ in my pocket so I saw it as a sign  Being pretty for a tool used for rough work never hurts either. Not to mention I'm changing out all my bench planes to LN.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Found a 40 1/2 at an estate sale today for $5!


----------



## DanKrager

Official as I can make it…you SUCK!

That is a find of a lifetime. But did it actually happen? ???

DanK


----------



## ColonelTravis

Dan, not only did I find a 40 1/2 for $5, I found a #2 in very nice condition for $5. I've rehabbed many old planes and none have been as good as the #2 I found. Just surface rust and dust. Most the japanning is still there. I was floored. One guy at the sale said - man, every time I come to these I hope I can find a mint #1. And I said - you and me both. Didn't tell him what I had in my box. Not mint but I was floored it was there in that condition and for that price.


----------



## Brit




----------



## theoldfart

^ x2


----------



## TheFridge

You bastard. I would've bought that!


----------



## ColonelTravis

You know, I thought about tuning up the 2 (modestly, not enough to damage the paint, etc.) and selling it for a one of the many great, modern American tools I could really use. I don't see me using a 2 very much in general. Then I thought - you're an idiot if you do that, you'll never find a freaking 2 in this condition for $5 in your life again. So I'm gonna keep it in my house where I can look at it, and every now and then use it on some small job.

Anyone use a 2? Wonder if LN sells many of them?


----------



## duckmilk

Wow Travis, you double suk. I have a #40 and wish it was a 40 1/2.


----------



## TheFridge

LN #2 is on the list. I essentially want a block plane with a chipbreaker.


----------



## August




----------



## WillliamMSP

So shiny and pretty. Is that an LN? Is this just after hitting it with some buffing compound?


----------



## August

Yes it's a LN I'll get kick out by the owner if I don't LOL
I use lots of wet sanding and lots of buffing compounds 
Also no wife so I'm free to spend time in the shop 
LOL


----------



## Hammerthumb

August uses Folgers Classic Roast for buffing compound. ^


----------



## TheFridge

Paul. It's officially man crush time! Thanks again for the goodies.


----------



## rad457

Someone going to be making some knife hinges?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Just a little extra stock I had. The rectangles are 1/4" thick, so they might be a little large for knife hinges. I have about 60 or 70 more of them.


----------



## jmartel

Rob Lee (of Lee Valley) posted up some pre-production photos of their new Large Plow plane that's supposed to come out next year on another forum. Figured they would be appreciated here.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^That looks pretty sweet. I have a Veritas skew rabbet plane. I wish I could say I use it….but I hardly do.

Little shop time today. A good smoothing plane never gets old.


----------



## TheFridge

Red, I see your 4 and raise you a 1/2 and some walnut.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Having a hard time judging the size of the large plow. Look at all those knobs! I'd be turning knobs all day long. Whaddya need, a couple grooves? Get back to me later, I'll be turning knobs until next Thursday.

I was definitely leaning toward a Veritas skew rabbet earlier in the year but I have yet to read a skew rabbet owner enthusiastic about his skew rabbet. Don't see it happening now.

Red - how do you do the jobs that you tried with the skew rabbet?


----------



## WillliamMSP

> Whaddya need, a couple grooves? Get back to me later, I ll be turning knobs until next Thursday.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Is it wrong that I read this in Miracle Max's voice?


----------



## Iguana

Working with 3 modern hand tools today - an LN 60 1/2 and two of my woodies.










The wood is sapele and the end grain is brutal. The wooden block has never given me an issue before yet it chatters so much as to be useless on this stuff. The LN works OK with a fine cut, but after 3 minutes the iron looks like I've been bashing it on concrete. Spent more time sharpening than planing.

The edge grain planes just fine.


----------



## TheFridge

Col, I got a 45 recently and you'd be surprised how quickly it can be setup. Especially for dados.

Honestly, I bet that veritas sets up a good bit easier than my 45.

Edit: I have a veritas skew rabbet block (RH) and I don't use it often but when I do it can't be beat.


----------



## jmartel

They said that Stanley and Record cutters will fit. Which means that LV cutters will likely fit Stanley and Record combo planes. So that means there's a new blade option for those people who have the old planes.


----------



## DLK

Jmartel are you saying the Stanley and Record Cutters will fit the "new LV Large Plow plane".

Do you mean these cutters:

Beading Blades for Veritas® Small Plow Plane
Standard and Wide Blades for Veritas® Small Plow Plane
Tongue-Cutting Blades for Veritas® Small Plow Plane

If so, that is indeed interesting.

I like the blade roll


----------



## jmartel

The cutters for the larger plane, yes. The ones you link are for the small plow plane.


----------



## DLK

> The cutters for the larger plane, yes. The ones you link are for the small plow plane.
> 
> - jmartel


I do not see that they offer a larger plane.


----------



## CL810

Mark, that is with A2 steel, right? Brutal.



> .... The LN works OK with a fine cut, but after 3 minutes the iron looks like I ve been bashing it on concrete. Spent more time sharpening than planing.
> 
> - Mark Kornell


----------



## jmartel

> I do not see that they offer a larger plane.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Did you see my post with photos yesterday? They put out pre-production photos. It's not out yet and will be released next year.


----------



## WillliamMSP

> The cutters for the larger plane, yes. The ones you link are for the small plow plane.
> 
> - jmartel
> 
> I do not see that they offer a larger plane.
> 
> - Combo Prof


The large is a prototype expected to be released next year.

Edit: ninja'd.


----------



## DLK

O.K. sorry I thought it was out .


----------



## Iguana

> Mark, that is with A2 steel, right? Brutal.
> 
> - CL810


Yeah, that 60 1/2 has A2 steel. It would take reasonably decent endgrain shavings for a 2-3 minutes and then start chattering. Considered grinding a steeper bevel on the iron but figured that would defeat the reasoning behind a low-angle plane. Spent a lot of time at the stones, but managed to finish the shaping today.


----------



## WillliamMSP

A humble addition -










It's a cosmetic second PEC 12" 4R combo bought off of ebay for a whopping $29.99, shipped. There's a tiny casting void on one of the head faces and they ground off the name/logo on the other side of the blade, but it's dead on square and feels quite nice. For a little more than a BORG square, it's a huge improvement. After receiving this today, I placed an order for a 4" double square, too ($18 shipped).


----------



## jmartel

Bill, you can also buy them here:

http://www.harryepstein.com/index.php/tool-brand/products-engineering.html?p=1

Shipping is a bit more though.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Yeah, I had seen that before, but when I was looking to place the order, I didn't see any in stock. Looking at it now, I think that I had selected 'PEC' as the brand, but not 'Product Engineering' - that seems like some sloppy site management that they're not consolidated. Mentally noted for next time, though - thanks!


----------



## jmartel

No problem. I've got a 12" combo square and a 6" combo square from there. I would buy extra pins with your next order, though. I dropped my 12" square by accident and busted the pin so I had to order extra pins with expensive shipping and handling because of that.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Ah - thanks for the additional tip! Now if we could only order specific colors.


----------



## jmartel

If you aren't clumsy and don't drop the square, then you'll be fine. I just happened to drop it and it hit the tip of the rule which sheared off the end of the pin. Landed just right, I guess. I've now got 2 pins for each size if that happens again.


----------



## trophyjoe

> No problem. I ve got a 12" combo square and a 6" combo square from there. I would buy extra pins with your next order, though. I dropped my 12" square by accident and busted the *pin* so I had to order *extra pins* with expensive shipping and handling because of that.
> 
> - jmartel


You're talking about the little rod that clamps the blade to the body?


----------



## jmartel

Yes. This part.

http://www.harryepstein.com/index.php/replacement-combination-square-pin-for-12-square.html


----------



## ColonelTravis

The black paint on my Starrett 6" combo is coming off in spots. It's etched so I can repaint it. Black enamel finish, so I guess black enamel paint. Paint on, wipe off? Just don't want to smear the whole thing in paint, I would think sanding it after it dries would mess up the rule too much?


----------



## TheFridge

> Ah - thanks for the additional tip
> - WillliamMSP


Multiple tips bill? You dirty dog you…


----------



## JayT

> The black paint on my Starrett 6" combo is coming off in spots. It s etched so I can repaint it. Black enamel finish, so I guess black enamel paint. Paint on, wipe off? Just don t want to smear the whole thing in paint, I would think sanding it after it dries would mess up the rule too much?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


I refurbed an old Starret 12in combo square and used cold gun blue to bring the markings back out. Wire brushed the blade, then blued the whole thing and sanded off with some 600 grit wet/dry. Worked pretty well.


----------



## ColonelTravis

I've got some gun blue for saws, never thought about that for my square because I'm Class A Stupid. Thanks.


----------



## WillliamMSP

> Multiple tips bill? You dirty dog you…
> 
> - TheFridge


It takes more than just one to satisfy some of us.


----------



## WhoMe

> Ah - thanks for the additional tip! Now if we could only order specific colors.
> 
> - WillliamMSP


I'll take a couple in a wood gained finish. ..


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

I got some new tools in this month…


----------



## ColonelTravis

Sweet - looks like someone is getting ready for handcut dovetails.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Things of beauty there Bulldog.

I was just saying how I never use this tool. A little rabbet on the drawer side is very helpful with half blind DTs.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Huh, pic didn't work….


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"If tomorrow all the tools were gone, I've worked for all my life. And I had to start again, with just a shard of glass for a marking knife…."


----------



## terryR

friends don't let friends go without proper tools…

If you get down to glass shards, just give me a shout and I'll show you how to turn them into useable tools! 










nice DT's BTW,


----------



## bobasaurus

I've been trying to make a rather unique hand tool this weekend using my crude blacksmithing skills:





































It's hopefully going to be a bicycle chain damascus (with forge-welded O1 steel edge/bottom) socket chisel. Unfortunately my belt sander snapped its second $70 drive shaft, so I'll have to wait on grinding it.


----------



## ToddJB

That's freakin' cool, Allen.

Awesome, Terry.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Allen, if it works out, that will be awesome


----------



## bobasaurus

Thanks guys. Ordered a new generic drive shaft for the sander… I'll have to modify it to work, but I'm not paying for a third OEM "steel" shaft that's apparently made of silly putty. Also replacing the bearings and a few other small parts. If this fails, I'm throwing it in the trash and getting a nice 2×72 knife grinder.


----------



## terryR

very cool, Allen!

How long to get that much steel hot in a proper forge? I'm very jelly.

Just bought the cheapo 2×41" grizzly sander. Wish I had done so years ago since it's shaped differently than a 4×36, and it is very user friendly!

But, here's an american made model for the forum! LOL!


----------



## woodcox

Good luck Allen. That is an amazing idea.

Sharp work with those Terry.


----------



## bobasaurus

Thanks Terry. The forge takes about 10 minutes to fully heat up. Then it's maybe 5 minutes from cold to heat the steel, and about 30 seconds to a minute between heats while working. It all depends a lot on propane PSI, though.

And I really want that grinder (it's a KMG right?). I have a 1.5 HP motor sitting around, too, so I could order their slightly cheaper motorless version. Still expensive, though.


----------



## terryR

yes to KMG,only $1300 sans motor. ouch. but, I bet it lasts!


----------



## bobasaurus

Looks like it's $1070 with plattens and contact wheel, but without a motor. Shipping probably adds a lot, though. Lots of money for a belt sander, but it's a pretty specialized tool.

I'd also need two step pulleys and a belt, so probably another $50. Damn.


----------



## sepeck

Here's a do it yourself version:


----------



## Iguana

I had something follow me home today:









(It is dangerous to have a Lee Valley in one's town.)










I also have a LN 60 1/2, so it was only natural to compare them:



















They are pretty close in size. The DX60 has a slightly longer toe.










But the 60 1/2 might be about 1/16" taller. The cap/palm rest on the DX60 is a bit sleeker and nestles a little differently in my hand. The DX60 is a tad heavier, but not enough to be noticeable unless you pick them up at the same time.

Internals:









And the irons:









In operation, the biggest difference between the two planes is the adjuster. The Norris-style adjuster on the DX60 is nice to have, but I've also never had an issue getting the iron straight on the 60 1/2.

The adjuster on the DX60 did come in handy, though, when I was making this bevel at the end of a board:










The approach was to mark the bevel (45°) at the end of the board and plane off the waste. As I got close to the line. I realized I was slightly off the angle. To correct, I used the adjuster to set the iron to take more off one side and after a few strokes, was dead on.

Apart from that, there was very little to choose between the two. The PM-V11 iron in the DX60 should hold a sharp edge better than the A2 iron in the 60 1/2, I suppose.

But sharpening is really the only complaint I have with the the DX60. The 60 1/2's iron has straight sides along the entire length, but the DX60's iron tapers starting about 1/3 the way from the sharp edge. This means that it doesn't register square in a typical grinding jig, nor does it work in an Eclipse-style jig. The Veritas Mark II and the Lie-Nielsen honing guide with the long jaws might work. But I really like the hollow grind approach…

And there's really no need for the iron to taper in the sides. A straight-sided iron would fit perfectly well inside the plane body, even considering the side-to-side adjustment range.

The iron didn't come sharp enough to work end grain so I had to hone it. If you look closely at the picture of the iron, you will see that it comes with a primary and relief bevel. I had to freehand on the stones, making sure to stand the iron on the fairly small primary bevel. I eventually got it sharp enough but it took more time than I like.

So now I've got them both on my shelf, which one would I pick? The one with the sharpest iron, naturally.

Here's the whole fleet of Modern (North) American Made block planes:


----------



## DLK

I think you should contact veritas and tell them about the sharpening problem just to see what they suggest. But I think it shows that blade being sharpened with the Veritas® Sharpening System

I almost bought that sharpening guide the only time I was in a Lee Valley store. I am glad there is no Lee Valley store in my town, for then I'd be broke. Turns out there is no advantage to buying in the store over buying online if you wait for free-shipping. Fortunately for me, I think the veritas planes are ugly.

Expensive hobby you have collecting Modern (North) American Made block planes.


----------



## terryR

Holy crap, if we had a Lee Valley store nearby….....

Nice review, Mark! Thanks! The shape of that veritas blade is sexy, but I never thought about it registering against the sharpening jig. major ooops!


----------



## jmartel

I've already told the wife that when we go up to Vancouver that I need a decent spending budget to stop in at LV with.


----------



## Iguana

J, just be aware that LV is not open Sundays.

I was a bit surprised when LV opened up a store here. Even by Canadian standards, we're a medium sized market at best. But they clearly did their market research as the staff I've talked to say they've been far busier than was expected.

Dan, that DX60 is actually the first plane I've ever bought. I've had a few given to me and won a few as prizes. But mostly I make the planes I use. I have to seriously exercise discipline now or I'll end up with a full set of LV planes by Thanksgiving.

Oh, wait. I have bought a half set of H&Rs and a #45. More for collection value than for using. But planing end grain excepted, I prefer my woodies over steel.

Terry , it does seem like a big design flaw. It is clearly an aesthetic choice, as the tail of the iron neatly follows the silhouette of the cap. Functionally, a straight iron would work just as well, but maybe not look as good. You have to assume that there were prototypes tested, and that the irons in those prototypes were sharpened from time to time.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Enjoyed the review as well. I've had a few vintage block planes. I contend in the realm of modern hand planes, the block planes are the greatest improvement over their vintage counterparts.


----------



## CL810

Great write up Mark. I came to the same conclusion Red. Had a couple of vintage that I couldn't get right with. When I decided to get a new one it came down to these two planes. Guess at the time I was in the mood for a traditional look but that DX60 looks like it would fit a hand real nice. Couldn't fault either way.


----------



## terryR

Veritas certainly makes sexy looking planes. I'm pretty sure I have a replacement iron shaped like above, will have to seat it in the LN honing guide for curiosity's sake! 

Agreed 100% on vintage vs. new block planes. Love my vintage collection, and keep them razor sharp. abut the added slop in every adjuster makes fettling them a challenge. A new one is a joy to re-adjust.

In fact, I think I'm due a new block! LOL!


----------



## rad457

Looking over my collection (small) of old Stanley's (all with PMV-11 irons) then looking back at my selection of wood planes from my time at "Inside Passage", then my few Lie Nielsen's and finally to a couple of New Veritas got to say they all have a place and a purpose! As long as there is a need I'm sure we can always find a reason to buy another new/old plane? I have had that DX60 on my wish list many a times but my old Stanley 60 1/2 works so good and I do have their apron plane and L.N. 102, but one of these days?????


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The curved bottom spokeshave has a bigger learning curve than its flat counterpart. But, it's sweet when you get it. Doubt I'll ever buy a spindle sander.


----------



## bobasaurus

I finally finished the chain damascus chisel:


Project Link Here

It took quite a bit of cleanup work, but I think it was worth the effort.


----------



## TheFridge

Not to offend anyone. Bob. The things I would do to that chisel are illegal in all of the United States and territories. I would treat her right.

Got a bonus today. Was gonna get a LN 5-1/2 and a little something else.

Just checked out a 5-1/2, 2, 60-1/2, and face float. I think I'm in trouble.

Well. It's better to ask for forgiveness than for permission. I hope.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Bob, that chisel looks awesome!


----------



## terryR

Allen, that's a WOW.


----------



## jmartel

Allen, that chisel is awesome. Have any closer photos of the damascus pattern on the blade?



> Well. It s better to ask for forgiveness than for permission. I hope.
> 
> - TheFridge


Yeah… I'm about to drop some money on a nice camera lens today. I'm in the same boat as you.


----------



## DLK

It is indeed a cool chisel.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

Its a work of Art, Allen


----------



## bobasaurus

Thanks guys. Here it is before etching and hand sanding:










And after:


----------



## bobasaurus

And another close up from the finished chisel:


----------



## GregTP

Fathers Day gift


----------



## Handtooler

WOW! Nice.


----------



## TheFridge

I've used the hell out of mine and love it. The only thing that might replace it would be another Summerfield saw.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Damn, that chisel just doesn't stop looking nice!

You metal people have inspired me to take on a pretty easy project but it's totally new territory to me. Operation Lever Cap for my 40 1/2.

Got a hunk of brass a la L-N Scrub and I'm using the screw-making method a la Derek Cohen (Derek would be a member of this thread's HOF if he weren't from the other side of the freaking planet. Way to go, Derek.)

It's not totally finished, still a little rough in spots, I need to file a groove for the cross pin and the screw is probably too long. I've read a lot of people say that just a skinny, filed groove is sufficient for the lever cap, but I like the (lack of a better word) overhang design of the real lever caps out there. Haven't thought it through. I'd probably have to do an overhang across the entire width of the lever cap instead of leaving points like the real deal. I don't have the patience to file away a whole lot of stuff.

The knurled knob is a ring I cut off a garden hose nozzle. I epoxied a screw into that and epoxied a nickel on top of that, then sanded/filed down the nickel. This is another way of saying I'm facing 6 months in jail and/or a fine if the feds raid my garage. Screw is 5/16", never tapped anything until this. Was pretty easy to do in brass.


----------



## theoldfart

Great work CT.


----------



## jwmalone

This is my kind of forum, I made a blade for my pocket knife from an old file ( that's what buck use to use) I do lil stuff like that all the time for the betterment of my wood working. going to make a couple of tri squares from some metal I've got lying around, Thought about making a chisel from an old file don't know if it would be to hard to sharpen though, youre the metal man bobasuarus got any recommendations for chisel metal, keep in mind whatever it is ill grind, file, sand it down no forges in my shop lol . Fire scares my wood


----------



## TheFridge

I thought old files worked great once annealed. I may be speaking out my ass…


----------



## bobasaurus

Great work there, Travis. Looks like a lot of shaping.

Good files are typically W1 or W1 steel, and they are heat treated to be really hard. But this makes them very brittle, probably cracking or snapping in half if struck. But you could pretty easily draw a temper using a small torch. Just sand/grind one face of the file so you can see shiny steel, then start heating from the tang end. You'll see some colors progress down the length of the blade on the shiny section you made. You want the cutting edge to be just barely straw yellow, and the body and tang to be maybe blue to purple. When the colors are right, dunk it in water to stop the changes. Then it would probably make a good chisel.

You could also just pop the whole file into the kitchen oven at maybe 450 deg F and bake for an hour or two. You could go hotter if this is still too brittle (may have to try snapping one just to tell).


----------



## DLK

An acquaintance of mine asked me this summer if I ever made a knife from a file. He said he was taught to do that in shop class. So I bet if you look hard enough you will find good instructions online. Or I'm sure some one will tell you how to do it. I've seen lots of homemade coffee can and brick forges on line.

Here is an instructable.


----------



## ErikF

Hey Gents. Great looking forum…first time I've seen roller chain damascus.

Some of you may know already, but I run Florip Toolworks. It's a small tool making shop that builds saws and marking gauges. I've spent the last year and a half fine tuning the products and working out kinks in the manufacturing process, metal and wood can be hard to tame.

There is now an inventory of marking gauges and an option to order directly from my website. Here is a video of the marking gauge

Saws are soon to follow. A product I am considering and would like to hear from anyone that wants to weigh in…

Product- 75% complete saw

A new saw can be pricey and part of what you're paying for is the time spent making the saw pretty. I would sell a line of saws that are ready to use out of the box but haven't been finished. Here is what the buyer would receive (bottom saw pictured):









-Assembled saw
-Sharp blade
-Roughly shaped handle
-Cleaned blade
-Cost 75% of what a finished saw would run

It's between a kit and a finished saw. A kit is great and you get a good understanding of the tool during the build…but you have to build it and there is a chance is messing up the build portion.

Thanks for any feedback!


----------



## terryR

CT, that came out very nice! A sexy shape and more symmetric than my attempt. Maybe a bit fancy for a vintage Stanley, but an A+ on the job IMO.

Sweet looking saws, Erik! Sure seems like a kit would be perfect.


----------



## bobasaurus

Erik, I follow you on Instagram. You always have great tools to show.


----------



## ToddJB

Erik, I think this is a great idea, but I think it would be most appealing to me if the bolt holes were already drilled, but the handle's profile was less defined. In the image above the handles shape is mostly defined, leaving less creativity for the woodworker. Just a thought


----------



## terryR

agreed, drilling the countersinks is the worst part, plus the slot for the blade.

I certainly prefer the classic shaped handles, but the customer is always right! A block of gorgeous wood attached to a sharp blade with brass should sell very well.

edit, I mean no shaping at all on the handle.


----------



## jwmalone

Great idea I change the shape of handles and customize all my tools any way, Ill check out youre sight would love a new ole fashioned saw that can be sharpened not those hardened teeth stuff.


----------



## ErikF

Thanks for the info, guys.

Todd- I was wondering about how far to take the shaping. It makes sense, the more material left to be removed the more options you you have.

I'll give a shout-out on here once I have some options.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Erik, a saw kit with detailed instructions and a your handle design template (similar to what Gramercy shares) would be awesome. Your customers could create your design, their own design, or any number of available tote designs. Maybe have two options available for pre drilled and not pre drilled?


----------



## TheFridge

A little somethings  5-1/2, 2, 60-1/2, face float


----------



## bobasaurus

Looks really useful. I've never used a float before, though… is it kind of like a big file for wood?


----------



## TheFridge

Pretty much Bob.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Posted this in the dreamy handplane thread but since someone mentioned floats!....

Almost done making my first rabbet plane. Plane blank from LN, hardened and tempered and sharpened like a razor. Can't test it because the blade won't go all the way in. Too much is sticking out. I need to either carve more of the left end of the escapement or file the top of the plane blank. Carving escapements - ugh. Really screwed it up the first two times. This was my third attempt and it's still not 100% done but it's almost done.










Could not have done this easily without two floats, which I also made. Making floats is a PITA. I'm never doing it again. But these two worked well and I can see them useful in other jobs like mortise/tenon cleaning.


----------



## bobasaurus

Great work Travis. That looks super tricky to carve.


----------



## TheFridge

Some tools to be proud of though colonel.


----------



## TheFridge

Some tools to be proud of though colonel.


----------



## ColonelTravis

The conical part isn't that tough if you draw freaking boundary lines like I did not do the first two times.

Idiot = me

I'd say you need at least 2 gouges, preferably 3. All I have are two. Still nowhere near as skilled as Matthew Bickford, whose tips on making these planes I used.


----------



## DLK

Which three gouges?


----------



## ColonelTravis

I've got two Pfeils (NOT THREAD-APPROVED BUT GOOD NONETHELESS!) - a straight #7 10mm and a straight #7 30mm. The larger one I used the most. That might be a tad too big for this job because once you get down in that cone it's harder to use. Also used some of my regular bench chisles. I might make one more of these planes in the future, who knows. I doubt I'd ever buy a gouge just for that but if I were to get another one I'd probably get a #8 or #9 sweep bent gouge about maybe 7-10mm? Not sure.


----------



## CL810

Chris Scwarz announces his new business, Crucible Tool


----------



## waho6o9

Good stuff CL810:


----------



## bobasaurus

Huh, the name Crucible is already used by a big steel manufacturer… I wonder how that will go.

The holdfast their showing in the picture looks cast, I wonder how strong and springy it will be. I would prefer the Gramercy, or even better a hand forged one from Black Bear Forge (or maybe I'll make my own someday).


----------



## theoldfart

I don't like the look of their holdfast, it certainly appears cast. I ordered two 1" Kuntz style holdfasts from Black Bear last week, something like 6-8 weeks wait time.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Wish the Crucible guys luck, hope they make some good stuff. Wonder why they started with a holdfast. You can get crappy ones and very nice ones and in-between ones. Is the holdfast market suffering from too much demand?


----------



## jmartel

Especially when you can get a pair of holdfasts for $35 from TFWW that work amazingly. You'd think they would go at an area that is lacking in good quality modern versions of tools.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Yeah that's where I got my two holdfasts. Wish they would make quality saw files - that is an area extremely lacking.


----------



## CL810

I don't get the holdfast thing either. Not exactly a waiting list for them. But I'll be watching for future products.


----------



## DLK

If you read the article it suggest that Chris did research on hold fasts. It suggests to me that he thinks that they will make holdfasts that will be superior to others currently made. I wonder what will make them better then gramercy holdfasts from TFWW? Can someone ask him to explain?


----------



## ColonelTravis

Working on my first hanging tool cabinet to hold my modest collection of modern (and vintage) American hand tools. Dovetailed 3 sides of the main cabinet, not bad, not great but a decent effort. 4th side - did the pin board backwards.


----------



## DanKrager

I HATE it when that happens, CT. You're not alone, today I cut stopped French dovetails stopped on the wrong end…

DanK


----------



## ColonelTravis

ARGH! Sorry about that Dan. If I could, I'd buy you a beer or cane sugar Dr Pepper or whatever you wanted. 
By the way, do you cut those by hand?


----------



## DanKrager

I'm posting my setups on "SOTS".

DanK


----------



## terryR

Colonel, the good news is, that mistake only happens ONCE!










after you know it's possible, you'll label the corners inside and outside…


----------



## ColonelTravis

What puts this on a higher level of Moron is that I had labeled them. 
But the marks were hidden in my leg vice. 
I am blaming this on the leg vice.


----------



## gargey

> Fathers Day gift
> 
> - GregTP


Is there something wrong with your camera lens? Blade and spine look wonky.


----------



## gargey

> Colonel, the good news is, that mistake only happens ONCE!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> after you know it s possible, you ll label the corners inside and outside…
> 
> - terryR


Ha. That sucks. Not getting that time back. ********************ty feeling. Learn to lol about it I guess. Looks like its just poplar at least.


----------



## donwilwol

Yes Colonel, it only happens once, once per project that is!!


----------



## ColonelTravis

Do you guys think the wide blades for the Veritas small plow would work well? Like a 3/4"? There's just not a lot of mass in this thing, unlike a bench plane, wondered about chatter or it being just a PITA?


----------



## theoldfart

Colonel, i've used the widest cutter with my 405 and didn't have an issue with chatter.










The rabbit was a bit wider than my cutter


----------



## ColonelTravis

well there you go, thanks


----------



## bobasaurus

I'm still waiting for the full-sized veritas plow to come out. Rob Lee made a few form posts about it a while back, heard nothing since.


----------



## ColonelTravis

yeah, I'd like to see more about that large one, also. I don't know how much use it would get for me at this point with what I'm interested in making, but maybe it would help. Just don't know. I saw that earlier mention with the prototype, it was hard for me to gauge how large it was.


----------



## theoldfart

I will say there are a lot of 45/405's out there and no shortage of cutters. The heft of my 405 is an asset as well, stays and goes where it should with not a lot of muscle. And there is the versatility of a combination plane to consider when your looking at just a plow.


----------



## ColonelTravis

I came close several times to getting a 45. I got the Veritas instead because I didn't see myself using all those cutters for all those jobs. When I ordered the Veritas they had just redesigned it (I didn't know this when I ordered, I was just getting it for grooves) Now I can do beads and T&G. Kinda pointless for me to get a 45, but I've become a convert to combo planes!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I don't have side rabbet planes, but the no 95 works pretty well with a steady hand.


----------



## bobasaurus

I've been gearing up to make more tools. Bought a new anvil and took a family picture:










It's a 129 lb Peter Wright anvil that was professionally restored.

And I rough forged a drawknife to try it out:




























Some grinding and handle making is now needed.


----------



## Hammerthumb

That anvil is hoss Allen! Wish I could find something like that here in LV. I might have to poke around in Utah to find something like that.


----------



## theoldfart

So Peter Wrights are good? There are a few on CL around here.


----------



## mramseyISU

> Working on my first hanging tool cabinet to hold my modest collection of modern (and vintage) American hand tools. Dovetailed 3 sides of the main cabinet, not bad, not great but a decent effort. 4th side - did the pin board backwards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - ColonelTravis


I think I need that framed and hanging over my bench some days.


----------



## bobasaurus

> So Peter Wrights are good? There are a few on CL around here.
> 
> - theoldfart


Yep, they're great anvils if you can find one in good condition. A lot of them have "sway back", where they're beat down in the center making them not flat. Some are crumbing on the edges or face, or have cracks. I tested this one by bouncing a ball bearing off the top, it rebounds well over 80% which is a sign of a good anvil. I also tapped all around with a small hammer and listened to the ring. There were no "dead" sounding areas indicating a hidden crack.



> That anvil is hoss Allen! Wish I could find something like that here in LV. I might have to poke around in Utah to find something like that.
> 
> - Hammerthumb


Thanks a lot. I was only able to find this one through word of mouth. They don't appear on CL very often.


----------



## jwmalone

Well guys, I read this thread a lot. I purchased a veritas dovetail saw 20 tpi, from woodcraft for 59.99. Read every review I could find. This will be my first proper dovetail saw (don't tell me I screwed up its on the way). My question is what's a good mid price range chisel set, doesn't need to be new I just need some good chisels so I can perfect my dovetail technique?


----------



## jmartel

How much is mid-priced to you? You're better off just buying 2 or 3 chisels. For dovetails a 1/4" and 3/4" would probably be a good way to start. The Stanley 750's are pretty good around $30/pop. Or you can get way better ones for around $50-75/ea.


----------



## CL810

FWW did a review/comparison of chisels several years ago and the new Stanley 750's were highly rated.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I have both the 750s and 2 Cherries. Although the 750s are very nice, the 2 Cherries are worth the extra money in my opinion.


----------



## jwmalone

Ok, Thanks guys I believe ill Do what jmartel advice and at least buy a 1/4 -3/4 of a good quality 750s or two cherry's, likely the later.. Then ill probably collect some from estate sales and what not, ran across some nice ones but they were 1inch or better.
Thanks fellows.


----------



## ToddJB

Allen, super jelly of that anvil. I've had my peepers peeled of local CL postings but seems like everyone knows what they have.


----------



## CL810

Anybody see or buy Crucible's dividers at WIA? Look sharp but I'm struggling to understand $120 for 6" dividers…....


----------



## mramseyISU

> Well guys, I read this thread a lot. I purchased a veritas dovetail saw 20 tpi, from woodcraft for 59.99. Read every review I could find. This will be my first proper dovetail saw (don t tell me I screwed up its on the way). My question is what s a good mid price range chisel set, doesn t need to be new I just need some good chisels so I can perfect my dovetail technique?
> 
> - jwmalone


I've cut a lot of dovetails with one of those saws. You're going to like it. As far as the chisels I have the new stanley set and really like them. Takes a couple rounds of sharpening to hold an edge well but once you get through that they really hold an edge well.


----------



## DLK

> As far as the chisels I have the new stanley set and really like them. Takes a couple rounds of sharpening to hold an edge well but once you get through that they really hold an edge well.
> 
> - mramseyISU


Can you or anyone explain this? Why would more rounds of sharpening effect how well a chisel holds an edge? I'm just curious? (I have my first set of not been sharpened before chisels and now you have me "worried".)


----------



## JayT

> Can you or anyone explain this? Why would more rounds of sharpening effect how well a chisel holds an edge? I m just curious? (I have my first set of not been sharpened before chisels and now you have me "worried".)
> 
> - Combo Prof


My best guess is that it's because you've now sharpened off the section that gets overheated at the factory when they grind them on the assembly line and are back into the well hardened and tempered steel. It's easy for us to overheat the thinner edge when sharpening and I've got to think the factory would have the same issue, even with the fancier machines and cooling liquids. This type of thing has been reported on far too many newly manufactured chisels for it to just be coincidence.


----------



## AgentTwitch

> Ok, Thanks guys I believe ill Do what jmartel advice and at least buy a 1/4 -3/4 of a good quality 750s or two cherry s, likely the later.. Then ill probably collect some from estate sales and what not, ran across some nice ones but they were 1inch or better.
> Thanks fellows.
> 
> - jwmalone


JW, This is just my two cents, but I agree with JMartel. If I could do it all over again, I wouldnt have purchased starter hand tools. You never really save any money in the long run as you end up buying multiple sets of the same tools when you upgrade. Whether you are a hand tool user, power tool user or somewhere in between, a good set of chisels will serve you well. I would just buy good quality chisels as you need them.

I haven't used the new Stanley 750's, but they are quite popular. I think that if there is any part of you that says "some day I will buy Lie-Nielsen, or Blue Spruce, or Ashley Iles, or Veritas, or any other premium chisel" I would take the plunge and buy 2 excellent chisels instead of buying a small set of mid-range chisels. Spending $ on two chisels that you will never upgrade is better than spending similar money on a small set of chisels and then buying the premium ones a few years down the road anyway.

Here is my rationale for this argument:

1.) Any chisel that is sharp will cut dovetails. If we were to drill down to the two biggest differences in the separation of quality between premium and a decent chisels is how long will the sharp edge last and how long will it take to bring the edge back to truly sharp. Most inexpensive chisels will do all that you ask of it if you don't mind sharpening them more often. Premium chisels use better materials and require fewer sharpenings between jobs. Yes, you must consider comfort in the hand, socket vs tang and aesthetics, etc. But a sharp tool is a joy to use. One that only stays sharp for a few operations and requires frequent trips to your sharpening station has two additional costs: time and sharpening materials.

2.) I dont know that you would really need to have lots of chisels for dovetailing and pairing operations. I use 2-3 chisels a lot. The others, not so much. To build drawers, a very common dovetail project, you will likely use 2 chisels: One for removing the waste on the pin board and one for chopping the tails. It saves you some time and improves your accuracy if you size the pin to be the width of one of your chisels. You don't need a 2" wide chisel to remove the waste on the pin boards, a general purpose ¾" would do the job fine.


----------



## DanKrager

> ...One that only stays sharp for a few operations and requires frequent trips to your sharpening station has two additional costs: time and sharpening materials.
> 
> - AgentTwitch


+1 Twitch. That statement pretty well sums up my thought too!

DanK


----------



## jwmalone

Thanks Agent, I bought a set off 750s. The old chisels I use as scrapers, if you ever go into the painting buis they work great for cleaning in hard to get areas such as old wooden windows.


----------



## terryR

Andy, never been to WIA, yet!

But, those calipers look to be very precisely built.



















I agree with you on the exquisite pricing, though. Maybe I just don't have the woodworking skills needed to use calipers for such precise marking? Or I like to collect the vintage guys?


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Anybody see or buy Crucible s dividers at WIA? Look sharp but I m struggling to understand $120 for 6" dividers…....
> 
> - CL810


I was hoping to read here more about what was there. $120 is too steep for me for dividers, although I'm sure they're nice. That spanner thing to tighten them - I'd be afraid that thing would be lost within a week in my garage, that's probably $20 of that $120 right there.


----------



## JayT

> that s probably $20 of that $120 right there.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Probably what Crucible is charging for them, but only 4.99 at a hardware store.


----------



## DLK

> Can you or anyone explain this? Why would more rounds of sharpening effect how well a chisel holds an edge? I m just curious? (I have my first set of not been sharpened before chisels and now you have me "worried".)
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> My best guess is that it s because you ve now sharpened off the section that gets overheated at the factory when they grind them on the assembly line and are back into the well hardened and tempered steel. It s easy for us to overheat the thinner edge when sharpening and I ve got to think the factory would have the same issue, even with the fancier machines and cooling liquids. This type of thing has been reported on far too many newly manufactured chisels for it to just be coincidence.
> 
> - JayT


Thanks that makes a lot of sense.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Here's one for all of you. I think I have made my decision but I would like to get other's opinions.

I have a lot of old Stanleys and love them all. Most are pre WWI and all work fine. I did get a Veritas Skew block plane and love that thing. It's used daily. That leads me to grabbing a smoother which I use for like 70% of things as well. I also want to be able to switch blades on it because we mostly work with figured grain being in Arizona. Eucalyptus is cheaper for me than soft maple, plus it's easier to get mesquite. Both are interlocked grains so going to a steep blade would be great yet still able to switch back, or have more than one tool sitting on the bench with the Stanley already in service….etc. You get the idea.

I just finished building a traveling tool chest/work bench (still need to put a finish on it) and would like a smoother to put in it that can do any smoothing I need to do plus a small shooting plane as a bonus. I build JayT's design and it's a great shooter but as things have gone on this chest, weight is an issue. So the infill shooter I built will have to stay out since it weighs like 10-12lbs.

Like I said, I think I made my choice but want to see what others would do and we all love this stuff.

Veritas Low angle smoother with two extra blades. (more modern with upgrades)
Lie Nielson 164 with two extra blades. (more beautiful less upgrades)

Price is about the same (close enough).

GO!


----------



## bobasaurus

I would get the veritas because of the norris adjuster for both depth and lateral. The lie-nielsen doesn't have a lateral adjuster, you have to do it by hand. Plus, PM-V11 blades are great.

Edit: oops, got the plane adjustment type wrong. Fixed now.


----------



## Mosquito

There are two reasons I would buy the LN 164 over the Veritas.

1.) Made in USA (makes a difference to some)
2.) Traditional design (I'll likely NEVER own a Stanley 164 due to price)

I've never used the Veritas, so I can only make assumptions. I assume the Veritas is equally as enjoyable to use, and similarly well made. PMV11 blades, like Allen said, are a great thing if you don't enjoy sharpening. I've not had hands on comparison between PMV11 and A2, but indirectly between my Veritas shooting plane, and my LN or IBC plane irons.

For practicality reasons, the Veritas makes more sense, but for reasons I can't really explain I'd likely still end up going with the LN personally.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I definitely dig the PMV11 I have it on my skewed block and it's fantastic stuff but is it the right choice?? hmmmmm…..believe it or not this was a crazy tough decision for me. You guys are hitting right on to the points I made to myself. Keep them coming, super curious what the consensus will say. Then I'll give my choice (like it really matters to anyone on here but it's fun right?)


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Oh, and don't worry Mos, the Stanley 45 made the weight cut for my mobile box/workbench. So it will be in there. I know you were worried, probably would have lost sleep over it.

I don't post many projects but I'll post this one because it's a little unique and I know Smitty would probably hunt me down if I didn't since he is obsessed with tool boxes.

I don't even know if it's going to work right but so far it's promising.


----------



## JADobson

I just got the Veritas LA Jack and I have to say I'm very impressed with it. I've never used a LN plane (exchange rate here in Canada is just prohibitive, and Lee Valley is a 5 minute drive away) but I don't think you'll be disappointed if you choose the Veritas. You probably won't be disappointed either way though.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

James, I have the Veritas skewed block and the router plane and love them both. Veritas is good stuff. No doubt in my mind. There's a lot of nostalgia with that 164 like Mos talked about. The old Stanley version goes for around $2500 in US dollars and doesn't even look as good. Veritas definitely has a spot in my arsenal already so why not add more right? I don't even own a Lie Nielson plane now. You see why this is such a hard choice. I made my choice but damn it was hard. Love seeing the responses though.


----------



## ColonelTravis

I work with a lot of mesquite, also figured walnut lately. For me, a low angle smoother is not worth the money. For smoothing I use a card scraper after a high angle blade in a regular No. 4 or sometimes no No. 4 at all. Was working some mesquite today with a (very sharp) regular angle No. 4, no tear out. Some grain is so crazy that I don't think any plane would matter, it's a scraper job.

I'm saying this never having used a low angle smoother. But I'm also saying this knowing I've simply never seen the need for one.


----------



## August

I'm still alive I just want to say hi to all you guys!!!!

I know it's a not a tool but the bumper is made America

Later folks


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Col that crossed my mind as well. I work it now without issues and I do use a scraper when I need to but I want to be able to travel up north to vacation, relax, and still enjoy my hobby so I have a toolbox/workbench I'm finishing now and will only be able to bring a small set of tools and would like something I can bring that will serve several purposes with a single tool. So these low angle planes can have a couple extra blades and that will get me a shooter (small shooter) or just end grain work, regular bedded blade and a high angle (higher than the #4 which honestly I have always been curious about) all in one. So it's the size of a #4 in the box but does much more. Don't worry, I'll still have a scraper handy or I'll make room for the #80.


----------



## mramseyISU

> Can you or anyone explain this? Why would more rounds of sharpening effect how well a chisel holds an edge? I m just curious? (I have my first set of not been sharpened before chisels and now you have me "worried".)
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> My best guess is that it s because you ve now sharpened off the section that gets overheated at the factory when they grind them on the assembly line and are back into the well hardened and tempered steel. It s easy for us to overheat the thinner edge when sharpening and I ve got to think the factory would have the same issue, even with the fancier machines and cooling liquids. This type of thing has been reported on far too many newly manufactured chisels for it to just be coincidence.
> 
> - JayT
> 
> Thanks that makes a lot of sense.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Yeah it's all down to the heat treating process. It's really hard to heat treat a thin edge so if they mill the bevel then heat treat there could be some weird stuff going on at a molecular level. Now I don't know this for a fact but I would suspect that the higher priced chisels (Lie-Nielson) are heat treated and then ground which would produce a more uniform hardness.


----------



## rad457

I have the Veritas low angle smoother (PMV-11) and do like it a lot but I picked up a L.N. 102 brass cabinet scraper to work on some small stuff that my Veritas cabinet scraper was to big for and fell in love with it instantly! Something about the L.N.s that feel so good. I have the brass 102 and the 60 1/2 rabbet block that have that same feeling.
Would buy more L.N. stuff but with the $ exchange and the fact, what else do I really need! That PMV-11 is worth every penny and then some, if I didn't have way to many chisel already there would be a set of Veritas on the bench right now.


----------



## ColonelTravis

ki7hy - between you and me, if you want to buy any plane available on planet earth at this moment, I will fully support that. We're tool-a-holics here!

You do what's good for you, my friend. Having a few things you'd like to take with you, I fully understand. That's a little different than my situation, I think there is clearly more versatility in a LA plane that you can switch out frogs or blades vs. a bunch of planes in the till. Good luck with the decision, look forward to reading what happens.


----------



## ColonelTravis

August good to hear from you!


----------



## bobasaurus

The drawknife works! Still needs handles.










It's so cute:


----------



## TheFridge

August! Good to see you old chap!

LN 4-1/2 w 55 deg frog was a revelation for me. Walnut crotch, curly maple, cypress with reversing grain and anything else I can throw at it. Like butta. With the grain and against the grain. I've tried it on just about every wood I've worked with and it is a machine.

It gets heavy when planing more than a couple sq ft but it is still a pleasure to use.

Personally, I'd never buy a LAJ unless it was for shooting. I'm a huge belieber in chip breakers. I watched a video from a Japanese university that studied chipbreaker setup and it was eye opening.

Edit: here the link to the article and video. Great site as well. One of my faves.

http://trestore.wkfinetools.com/planes/sUpCapIron/sUpCapIron-01.asp


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Fridge, tell me please you didn't just use the word belieber??


----------



## TheFridge

Can I please the 5th?


----------



## bobasaurus

That video does show that high angles work pretty well too. But the increased push resistance is a downside.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

The internet is a horrible place.


----------



## jmartel

ki7hy, that would be my vote as well. Buy a LN #4 or 4 1/2 and then buy a second high angle frog. Just as easy to swap out a frog instead of a blade, and then you get the benefit of the chipbreaker as well. So, for situations where the chipbreaker alone just doesn't cut it, you swap on the frog.

And this is coming from someone who owns the Veritas Low Angle Smoother.


----------



## terryR

August, that bumper is most certainly a tool. Come down to the Farm, and I'll show ya what to use it for! LOL.

Allen, your drawknife looks like a challenging project. Congrats on making shavings!


----------



## DLK

August and terryR: Why the roo bar? I don't think skippy lives in in your neighborhood.


----------



## terryR

For moving livestock when you need to drive where they are standing, silly.
For rigging tarps when shade can help work flow.
Useful to clamp stuff to the truck at times.
Intimidating to small cars when I pull up behind you at a stop light.

Probably for moving skippy from the roadway if needed. no games.


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah it takes more effort than the Stanley 4-1/2 I had but it's well worth it to me when dealing with heavily figured wood.


----------



## DLK

Somewhat impressed you know who/what skippy is. Good on ya!


----------



## terryR

.


----------



## August

This is what I want to build once I finish the settle in to our new warehouse


----------



## KelleyCrafts

That's a good recommendation jmartel but I already have a couple of old 4's that I have setup a couple of different ways. I have to admit, a lot of this is just for a treat and I am curious about the BU planes. If they do work as well as I have read then it's a good solution for my travel plane too.

I would have to argue the fact of changing out a frog is just as easy as a blade though. Not that the frog is hard but it definitely would take longer setting a frog then a blade let alone having some screws to manage. I love my BD planes though, no arguing how a good tuned plane works. Just going to give the BU a go. I don't really "need" anything….my wife doesn't read this right?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> This is what I want to build once I finish the settle in to our new warehouse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Are you talking about the box August? I just built one with a little twist. That one looks a lot like mine size wise but mine does some extra stuff. So close to being finished now. Hoping to check it off completely this weekend.


----------



## Mosquito

> I would have to argue the fact of changing out a frog is just as easy as a blade though. Not that the frog is hard but it definitely would take longer setting a frog then a blade let alone having some screws to manage.
> 
> - ki7hy


This. Though with an LN, the frog adjustment wouldn't be that bad, but certainly more effort than removing a tool-less lever cap, and replacing it.


----------



## jmartel

Ok, it takes more time than replacing a blade, but you'll get better results than with a BU plane. That was my point. And for a traveling chest, you can sacrifice an extra minute or two for swapping out a frog to save weight.

I used to be on the BU bandwagon, but I've changed my tune a bit after using a properly setup plane with chipbreaker. BU is great if you want to have only one or two planes and multiple blades. If you can spare space/weight, BD is the way to go.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

True jmartel, the idea is to take it slow and relax when working out of this particular chest, if that's the way I go then I could just grab a couple of frogs for the 4's on Ebay but it means I don't get to buy a new tool…..you do see the dilemma right? lol


----------



## terryR

That's a fine looking toolchest! Would love another…

Don, I worked with an Aussie nurse for a while, and picked up a lot of slang. Most folks look at me funny if I say, "Good on you"

He used skippy to mean anyone that was clueless.


----------



## DLK

Skippy the kangaroo was the name of a TV show too.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Update, Jmart screwed everything up. My plan was to get the LN because….well, because. He PM'ed me and offered his Veritas LAS at a decent price so I sent him money.

So that's how the story ends on that one.

Moral of the story? Jmart will mess up your plans if you let him.


----------



## jwmalone

lmao


----------



## ToddJB

> Moral of the story? Jmart will mess up your plans if you let him.
> 
> - ki7hy


Been there more than once.


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, I tend to do that.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> JW, This is just my two cents, but I agree with JMartel. If I could do it all over again, I wouldnt have purchased starter hand tools. You never really save any money in the long run as you end up buying multiple sets of the same tools when you upgrade. Whether you are a hand tool user, power tool user or somewhere in between, a good set of chisels will serve you well. I would just buy good quality chisels as you need them.
> 
> I haven't used the new Stanley 750's, but they are quite popular. I think that if there is any part of you that says "some day I will buy Lie-Nielsen, or Blue Spruce, or Ashley Iles, or Veritas, or any other premium chisel" I would take the plunge and buy 2 excellent chisels instead of buying a small set of mid-range chisels. Spending $ on two chisels that you will never upgrade is better than spending similar money on a small set of chisels and then buying the premium ones a few years down the road anyway.
> 
> Here is my rationale for this argument:
> 
> 1.) Any chisel that is sharp will cut dovetails. If we were to drill down to the two biggest differences in the separation of quality between premium and a decent chisels is how long will the sharp edge last and how long will it take to bring the edge back to truly sharp. Most inexpensive chisels will do all that you ask of it if you don't mind sharpening them more often. Premium chisels use better materials and require fewer sharpenings between jobs. Yes, you must consider comfort in the hand, socket vs tang and aesthetics, etc. But a sharp tool is a joy to use. One that only stays sharp for a few operations and requires frequent trips to your sharpening station has two additional costs: time and sharpening materials.
> 
> 2.) I dont know that you would really need to have lots of chisels for dovetailing and pairing operations. I use 2-3 chisels a lot. The others, not so much. To build drawers, a very common dovetail project, you will likely use 2 chisels: One for removing the waste on the pin board and one for chopping the tails. It saves you some time and improves your accuracy if you size the pin to be the width of one of your chisels. You don't need a 2" wide chisel to remove the waste on the pin boards, a general purpose ¾" would do the job fine.
> 
> - AgentTwitch


^ I concur with Norm.


----------



## TheFridge

I do most my work with a 1/4, 1/2, & 1 but the 1/8, skews and fishtail are awesome to have in particular circumstances.

Edit: I went with the same strategy. Took me almost a year to put a set together but it was well worth it and will last a lifetime if taken care of.


----------



## jwmalone

Damn it you guys are costing me a fortune, but you're right. Man I just love an excuse to buy tools,,,,, cheap of course.


----------



## terryR

Same chisel approach for my shop. I started buying LN sockets in one's and two's. Still don't have a full set, but don't feel the need.

+1 to a 1/8" chisel finding its way to any project.


----------



## TheFridge

You can't beat the 1/8 with a stick when you need one


----------



## ErikF

Hey guys. I've been working on a new tool and have a working prototype, thought I would show it off and see if there is any feedback.

It's a router plane with the ability to rotate the whole cutter assembly. Pictured is a three sided blade and a bottoming blade.

It will true dovetail angles so that each is exact. Set it at one angle and all cuts can be made without making any adjustments.

-Cutter carrier detaches from the base. It will have three bases: small, medium, large, and you can make your own.

-There is a pin to lock the cutter assembly at a right angle. Once the pin is removed you can make any needed adjustment for angled work.

The cutter carrier will be cast out of bronze or cast iron. Rotating assembly will most likely be brass. Still a fair amount of work to do but I like the function.


----------



## JayT

That's sweet, Erik! Would be a great tool for doing sliding dovetails.


----------



## donwilwol

Looks pretty nice Erik.


----------



## gargey

I think the market would be very small, and you'd have to charge a fortune.


----------



## bobasaurus

Jay, that would be a good use for it. For regular dovetails, I think it's easier to just saw to the line and chisel as needed. But it would be versatile for all sorts of odd cutting tasks.


----------



## ToddJB

Is it heavy, Erik?


----------



## JayT

I could also see it as a replacement for a side rabbet plane, especially if it had a fence.


----------



## ErikF

Thanks for the feedback.

Jay-T I do plan to have a fence and depth stop. I was thinking of offering two fences with it- a setup that could keep the cutter centered and stable while working on narrow stock. No tipping.

Todd- I'm not sure how heavy it will end up. The one I made has a lot of aluminum so I don't know what the change will be with other materials. What is your preference?


----------



## ToddJB

I think I would want it to be base and center heavy - top light. Big brass knobs on a light base might make it feel tippy on surfaces where the base wasn't fully engaged.


----------



## JayT

> I think I would want it to be base and center heavy - top light. Big brass knobs on a light base might make it feel tippy on surfaces where the base wasn t fully engaged.
> 
> - ToddJB


Agree with that. Low center of gravity would be best. I think dark wood knobs would look better, though.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Very interesting concept, Erik. It will be interesting to follow whether or not this becomes a production tool of yours.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Three sided blades, pretty dang cool. Kinda like a Transformers plane.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Was watching some FWW videos (subscription) and they've got one with Ron Hock, it's not even 3 minutes long. The video is almost 10 years old, but at the time he said he still makes 30% of his blades from this shack. That's where he started and has since got a factory in France, which does most the production. His website says he still makes blades in the back yard, don't know how many. Thought it was interesting because whenever I think "Hock factory" I never think of this thing.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Good stuff. Hock blades are very unique. The steel is different than all the rest. Still one of my favs.


----------



## rtbrmb

I have a depression era Stanley #3 I outfitted with a new Hock blade last week - cuts like butta.

The original kept chipping after sharpening-my guess is that someone got it too hot at one point and it lost it's hardness. I also have Hock for a classic #4 I hot rodded. Great blades.

Bill


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I've had people tell me regular files aren't really for woodworking (only rasps), but I differ. I love 'em. I keep the metalworking ones separate of course. Pretty sure I got the Grobet USA from LN. She's a peach.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

Blue Spruce mallet. I love this thing. Had to show it off.


----------



## CL810

'tis a beautiful thing.


----------



## Brit




----------



## Brit

My new spokeshaves have Hock blades and they are awesome.


----------



## ErikF

Some low tech tool recycling…no need for cast iron marking gauge fences but they made for good test patterns.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Anything by Blue Spruce is sexy.

Anyone eyeballin stuff for Xmas. I like this new mallet by Veritas. $42 isn't bad.










Then there's the LV Cyber Monday coming up. That can be trouble….


----------



## jmartel

> Then there s the LV Cyber Monday coming up. That can be trouble….
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I think I'm going to sit this year's out. Last year was trouble. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'll still go online and see what they have. And hopefully I won't actually buy anything…


----------



## Mosquito

it's easy not to buy anything, just wait 5 minutes to go look at it, and it'll get so bogged down you'll want to just leave lol


----------



## mramseyISU

> it s easy not to buy anything, just wait 5 minutes to go look at it, and it ll get so bogged down you ll want to just leave lol
> 
> - Mosquito


I've never been able to buy anything it's all sold out when I get a chance to look or at least what I want and that's at 5:30 or 6AM central time.


----------



## Mosquito

usually by about 10 minutes in the checkout system gets pummeled and it takes literally 30 minutes of diligent checking and trying to actually get checked out. At least such was my experience.


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, if you aren't sitting there with your credit card out and ready to buy when it comes online, nothing good will be available. Usually the best stuff is gone within an hour of being posted online. I bought things the last 2 years, and it certainly helps that it goes live at 9pm west coast time.


----------



## ErikF

Hey Gents. I've been working on a couple new ideas and I think this variable hang angle saw is ready to go. There are a lot of good reads out there about how hang angle effects the way a saw performs. A poor cutting saw isn't always due to a bad set of teeth…it can be a bad pair-up between the users stance, bench height, and the saws setup (filing, height, hang angle). I like a low handle for a through stroke.

The saw back has a lobe that is sunk into the handle. For movement, the front screw acts as the pivot point and the rear screw allows handle movement when it's loose. Because the saw needed to be more rigid to allow for this movement- both the pivot screw and travel screw are being supported by both the handle and the 1/4" sawback material. Rear screw has a machined "key" that fits into machined points in lobe. This prevents the handle from slipping.

I put this one together yesterday to see what a finished version would look like. It's not completed but it gives a good idea of what the final product will look like and what it does.


----------



## CL810

Hope you have filed for a patent. You'll sell a bunch!


----------



## KelleyCrafts

This is interesting Erik. I think a design like this would help many. I tend to really hold low on the handle for my Veritas saws because I can't start them smoothly if I don't. I've seen people do it without holding low but I think my stance or arm position is the problem and I haven't figured it out yet. Once I get the saw started I'm fine and if I hold low I can start it pretty easy. I bet something like this would work great for at least that problem. Would be interesting to try.

Very good job.


----------



## CL810

ki7hy, I too had some issues with the handle hang angle with my Veritas saw. The sawing angle always had the toe of the saw high. I too held the saw handle low to help with starting. I never thought about it a lot until I tried a Bad Axe saw. Immediately the sawing angle was flat. I compared the two saws side by side and could immediately see that the difference was the handle hang angle.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Makes sense Clayton. The way I figured it out was putting my phone against a hand plane and shooting a video of me trying to start a cut and could see what I was doing.

I'm ok now with just holding low when starting, works just fine but its wonky. I'm used to it. I could keep trying to adjust myself and eventually I'll probably figure it out but I've been doing it for a long time now and am fine with it, no issues starting cuts. Not ready to dumb bad axe money yet though. The Veritas are ok for now.


----------



## CL810

I agree, Veritas saws are good saws.



> Not ready to dumb bad axe money yet though. The Veritas are ok for now.
> 
> - ki7hy


----------



## TheFridge

That's what they make credit cards for. Just ask the people at LN


----------



## terryR

...still in the crate…


----------



## theoldfart

That thing needs a French polish.


----------



## ColonelTravis

wha in da box!?


----------



## terryR

LN shooting plane, still unused!


----------



## AgentTwitch

I want one of those planes pretty bad.


----------



## Brit

What's the holdup Terry? Are you making a special screwdriver to open the crate or what?


----------



## gargey

What was the point of buying it, some might ask…

(gargey is in the "some" group)


----------



## Mosquito

gargey, it was a gift, technically


----------



## UpstateNYdude

Well if you don't want it Terry, I guess I can be persuaded to take it off your hands, I'll even pay the shipping.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Man, if that shooter-in-a-box was in my house there would not be any time to take a picture of an unopened box because the box would have been opened immediately.

I'm embarrassed to say how long, how many tools, how many screw-ups it took to get one freaking lamb's tongue on my moxon build. Honestly, I don't know. There's a lawn mower in the background there in the photo, I think I used that, too.


----------



## theoldfart

CT, the effort was worth it. It looks good.


----------



## AgentTwitch

I agree! Looks great


----------



## terryR

CT, doesn't matter how many tools you use, or how long it takes. As long as the results look as nice as that!

OK, story on the 51:

My wife gave me the shooter last Christmas, but we celebrated while spending the night in the city at a fancy hotel. When I unwrapped my gift, I didn't have a screwdriver with me to open the crate, so had to wait 24 hours until I returned home.

During that time, I played with the idea of simply leaving the LN in pristine condition as a potential investment. I already have a shooter made by JayT which works fine, so the LN has never seen use. Yes, it has been out of the crate once for a thorough fondling! LOL. Then wiped with oil, and replaced.

Keeping it as an investment isn't paramount in my plans. I've just been too busy this year with home and farm to spend time with the shooter. A bunch of my cool tools are in boxes now since I'm moving to another shop.And, this one will remain boxed for a 'while'.


----------



## TheFridge

Your tools. Your money. Do what the hell you want Terry.

Col, did you use a spokeshave?


----------



## newwoodbutcher

I love this thing.


----------



## TheFridge

Is that a prison shank?


----------



## TheFridge

Is that a prison shank?


----------



## rad457

Looks like a chip craving knife? Or a very nice marking knife?


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Your tools. Your money. Do what the hell you want Terry.
> 
> Col, did you use a spokeshave?
> 
> - TheFridge


Yeah Terry - do what the hell you want! And if you want to give that shooter to me, then do it!

Fridge, I followed the terrific advice here, and this same project was also posted on LJ but the pictures weren't working on my phone (maybe they're fine on a PC, not sure, didn't check.) But the link I gave works on any device.

I tried a spokeshave for the bevel, which is what the link above suggested, but the grain in my board runs in two directions because where I put my bevel there's a small knot. Spokeshave worked well on the ends but the middle was a mess. Overall, a wide chisel did much of the work, but I got great finishing results with a card scraper, which was the best to get all the way to where the lamb tongue curve meets the bevel - could get every little nub in there cleared out. I think a spoke would make it easier to ensure the bevel was parallel, it took a little more checking and re-checking with a chisel.

For the tongue, I used files, a pair of gouges and sandpaper. Cut the basic shape out with a fret saw. Not too long ago Red posted here how he loves files, when some people think of them for only metal. I agree with him. They've come in very handy.


----------



## newwoodbutcher

It's my marking knife, from LN. Saw it on a flyer they sent me, didn't "t cost much. I've tried several marking knives some of them only a few dollars. I used a Swiss Army knife recommended by Palomar hand joinery teacher for 3-4 years. There have been several others but this one suits me.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I dig the LN marking knife Ken. Might be a Xmas stocking request for me.

My partners in crime when I need that perfect edge for gluing.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

That a no. 8 Red? I've got mine on order, finally sold enough Stanley's to complete my 3 main LN planes. Been trying to build hand tool set based off Chris Schwarz books and limiting to what I need, but only buying the higher quality tools. I have just purchased this week alone a Sterling 6" square, GD tite mark, 12" and 24" Starrett combo squares, and some of the Dragon Oire Nomi Bench chisels from ToolsfromJapan and a new higher end Ryoba (I like pull saws more than traditional western saws)


----------



## AgentTwitch

Nick,

Sounds like you are going to have some very nice tools for your tool chest (assuming you go that route as part of the Schwarzian philosophy). I couldnt agree more with buying quality first. Prevents the habitual upgrades.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Nick,
> 
> Sounds like you are going to have some very nice tools for your tool chest (assuming you go that route as part of the Schwarzian philosophy). I couldnt agree more with buying quality first. Prevents the habitual upgrades.
> 
> - AgentTwitch


That is my thinking, hoping my son or daughter or both will take to woodworking as much as me, that way I can pass these to him/her/them when I'm gone.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nick, it's the no. 7. No 8's look awesome, but I'm not sure I would use it a ton.

I feel ya on the saws. My heart is with western saws, but for fine cuts in furniture making…..I reach for my dokuki A LOT.


----------



## JayT

I use a dozuki for most precision cuts, but prefer a western saw for dovetails and anything with a marked line-to avoid the sawdust from the pull saw obscuring the lines.


----------



## bobasaurus

Jay, I never thought about the dust issue… that's interesting. I still have an easier time following a line with my lee valley small dozuki than my veritas dovetail saw.


----------



## ToddJB

Are you guys using the Z?


----------



## CL810

I favor the LN 7 as well. I have a 608 that I never use.

Red, do you use the edge plane just for final squaring of the edge? Other uses?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Todd, I use the gyokucho 372. Same as David Barron. Bought it on Amazon.

Andy, I guess you would say….I use the edge plane to bring me back to square. First thing, I check across the edge with a small square. If I'm off, I get the square edge back with the 90 degree edge plane. Then to the jointer.

If the piece needs a lot of love from the jointer plane…and I get off 90, couple swipes with the edge plane, then some final passes with the jointer. Make sense?

Other news, rather dissapointing that there really aren't any great North American options for Carving tools. Ariou, Pfiel, Taylor, Two cherries…...all imports.


----------



## ToddJB

Rojo, my buddy who makes mandolins uses Ramelson carving chisels - made in the U S of A

http://www.ramelson.com


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Interesting. Ramelson is the only brand I've come up with….but I just didn't think the could be that great of quality at the low price point. I may have to find out.


----------



## DLK

Try Pinewood forge for wood carving knives.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Cool Combo.

It's interesting….I really can't find a reputable review about the Ramelsons on the interwebz. Very tempting to try.

I think I've talked about the Veritas Skew Rabbet on here before. I agree with some writers that the knob on this tool is counterproductive with keeping the tool level….thus a level rabbet.










So, I've taken the knob off. Makes for a perfect place to rest my thumb….while my fingers rest against the fence. Works well for me.


----------



## ToddJB

Here's my buddies comments on them:


----------



## gargey

Me too.



> My partners in crime when I need that perfect edge for gluing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


My process borrows from Robert Wearing's book, but cheats by using the Edge Plane:

First saw the board.

Then use the 7 to get the edge "generally" flat.

Then the Edge Plane to get it square.

*Then use the 7 or the 4 1/2 to plane a hollow in the middle of the edge.*

Then use the 7 until you get your first full length shaving (because of the hollow, the 7 will initially only cut at the beginning and the end of the stroke).

Then one or two passes with the Edge Plane to make sure it's 90* again.

(By planing it hollow you fight the handplanes' tendency to produce a gentle convex curve)


----------



## gargey

This calls for many transverse saw cuts, and chiselling out the waste, correct?



> - ColonelTravis


----------



## rad457

Lee Valley got me again with that free shipping trick, the small Veritas shoulder plane with a PM-11 iron showed up on my door step, quick pass over a 8000 W.S. and ready to work.
Picked up the Lie Nielsen lat year but always seemed just a bit to big ?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Gotta love dem shoulder planes.

Todd, the Ramelsons put me in an interesting predicament. I'll always attempt to buy North American first….but not at the expense of buying a Yugo;-) I've always been the guy who would rather have two LN chisels over a whole box of Marples. So would I rather have a set of American made mediocre chisels….that are certain to need some work? Or would I just buy a couple Swiss Pfiel and be done with it?

Point: I don't mind paying more for American, but it's tough when the American option likely isn't up to the competition. If I can't buy American, my second best is to buy anywhere else that doesn't have sweatshops. I guess.


----------



## ToddJB

I hear ya, Red. But the next question would be do/will you use carving chisels enough to merit buying the finest? Would a $60 set work for what you needed to do?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Hard to say. ten years ago I asked for cheap set of Chinese marples chisels for Xmas….and was happy to get them. Until I started chopping and learned how craptasitic they were. Ten years ago, I never would have guessed I'd be doing this with a chisel one day….









The complexity never ends….lawlz.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Hard to say. ten years ago I asked for cheap set of Chinese marples chisels for Xmas….and was happy to get them. Until I started chopping and learned how craptasitic they were. Ten years ago, I never would have guessed I d be doing this with a chisel one day….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The complexity never ends….lawlz.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Oooooo is that an Ashley isles butt chisel? Also what Dozuki you guys using my current one sucks, was looking at the one on Garrett Wade's store.

Anyone know a good plow plane or worked with the Veritas one?


----------



## DanKrager

I'm in the "buy quality early" camp. I had to start somewhere so I bought cheap stuff. I learned some expensive lessons, and then I bought expensive stuff and learned some expensive lessons. Because it is expensive does not make it quality. Right now I'm looking at spoon carving options and am using TOL gouges that I've bought over the years. It's been a struggle to resist buying the cheap stuff that looks good. But after some research and listening to those who have traveled this road before I've learned that one can buy highest quality spoon carving knife sets for a very reasonable price. The best values are still off shore it seems, but those makers are all tiny family shops doing what any good U.S. family company would do…make good tools at fair prices the best they can. I don't know what advantages the foreigners have (less regulation, lower overhead, different values ????) but I'm inclined to support a select few who outperform the rest of the world in their area of specialization. I would hope that their sale to me would help their standard of living and perhaps reduce the "need" for some sort of hand out, which in all likelihood comes from the U.S. anyway. It's very complex situation and I'm glad I'm not in charge of it! 
DanK


----------



## JayT

> Also what Dozuki you guys using my current one sucks, was looking at the one on Garrett Wade s store.
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


I have a Gyokucho 306. Thinking I'm going to try a 372, as well. Nice part is that having the handle, I should just need to get a replacement blade.


----------



## jmartel

> Also what Dozuki you guys using my current one sucks, was looking at the one on Garrett Wade s store.
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


Personally, if I was in the market for a japanese tool, I'd look to buy it straight from Japan first.

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/

Stu knows his stuff. It can take a while to get stuff (took a month to get my sigma power ceramic stones), but it's worth it. And way cheaper even after shipping than buying stateside. At some point I'll be buying a few chisels from there, once I can get the money up. At least one of which I'd like to be a Koyamaichi dragon chisel

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/images/chisels/IMGP6993%20(Medium).JPG


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Personally, if I was in the market for a japanese tool, I d look to buy it straight from Japan first.
> 
> http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/
> 
> Stu knows his stuff. It can take a while to get stuff (took a month to get my sigma power ceramic stones), but it s worth it. And way cheaper even after shipping than buying stateside. At some point I ll be buying a few chisels from there, once I can get the money up. At least one of which I d like to be a Koyamaichi dragon chisel
> 
> http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/images/chisels/IMGP6993%20(Medium).JPG
> 
> - jmartel


I just ordered 4 of those chisels, when I get them in another 4-5 weeks I'll post up how they are.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Oooooo is that an Ashley isles butt chisel?
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


It is an Ashley Isles. I believe they are the MK2 butt. They are the first decent set I bought. I they don't get used a ton. The steel is pretty good….but the LN steel is ridonculous.

The AI gets busted out for narrow DT pins. They have very beveled edges. The only American chisel I've seen like this were Blue Spruce. Cough.


----------



## CL810

Has anyone tried LV's PM-V11 chisels?


----------



## WillliamMSP

> Has anyone tried LV s PM-V11 chisels?
> 
> - CL810


I keep telling myself that I'm going to indulge in one during a free shipping period, but whenever one rolls around there are always a few things that are a little more desperately needed.


----------



## rad457

> Has anyone tried LV s PM-V11 chisels?
> 
> - CL810
> 
> I keep telling myself that I m going to indulge in one during a free shipping period, but whenever one rolls around there are always a few things that are a little more desperately needed.
> 
> - WillliamMSP


Yup, and the fact there are way too many other chisels in the shop! Keep reaching for my Stanley S.W. but still have not used a set of old 750's after finally finding a 1/8".
Did try the new P.M.-11 at a Lee Valley workshop and was impressed but not enough to actually buy them.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The PMV11s look wonderful, but I do think the price point being above the LNs deters most. They're really the only veritas tool I'm aware of that is priced quite a bit more than the LN. If I were to go higher….I'd have to go Blue Spruce.



> Anyone know a good plow plane or worked with the Veritas one?
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


I've been waiting on the LN plow…..for years now. Goofy Tom has been toting around a prototype to show for 2+years now. No production yet.

The Veritas plow, with recent upgrades, seems solid. I've heard no complaints.


----------



## jmartel

> I just ordered 4 of those chisels, when I get them in another 4-5 weeks I ll post up how they are.
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


The Dragon chisels? Color me jealous. Definitely post some photos and a review.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

After some reading about japanese chisels, I'm getting a sense that a regular wood round mallet will be chewed up by the hoops, is that true? This will be my first japanese chisels so I have no experience with that and a lot of what I'very read says to use a metal (bronze or steel) round faced mallet? I think either Glen Drake or Sterling has a nice bronze headed round milled mallet, would something like that work or is there a better option.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Makes sense. I know David Barron uses/makes a similar mallet for use with his Japanese chisels.










Several of us have made our own….but ya need someone to drill the brass.


----------



## DLK

So you just bye the brass rod. Silly me I thought your turned it. So simple now. I may make one.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> ^Makes sense. I know David Barron uses/makes a similar mallet for use with his Japanese chisels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Several of us have made our own….but ya need someone to drill the brass.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Do you have a blog or a post some place with the process you went through for the build? How many ounces is that mallet in the pic 13-16oz?


----------



## jmartel

Nick,

I believe most japanese chisels are typically struck with a square head Gennou. Here's some info from another forum about them:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?241591-The-Japanese-Gennou-(Hammer)

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=344_369_470

If you haven't already placed your order for your chisels, you can add one on for ~$20-30ish


----------



## terryR

Drilling through brass rod is easy,










I believe I used a 1/2" bit for a similar mallet.

The head may need to be shaped, but a file and sandpaper will do nicely! A lathe will make it perfectly rounded. But isn't required.


----------



## bobasaurus

That's a clever way to clamp it, Terry. Be careful drilling brass, it has a tendency to gum up in the bit and thread onto it, yanking out of the vise and spinning rapidly until it hits you (ask me how I know…). I think there is a way of grinding the leading spurs to a blunter edge that prevents this.


----------



## DanKrager

Yes, Allen, good point. The process is called dubbing where you grind a tiny flat at some very steep rake angle on the cutting edge. That should be done for most soft materials like brass, lead, plastic etc. Gumming up occurs when the speed is too high, but can be minimized with good lubricant. Here is a good use for WD40.

DanK


----------



## DLK

I have used fluid-film as a lubricant when drilling metal too.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nick, no idea on the weight. Another LJ helped me with the brass (I've made several). The brass is 1 1/4" rod, 2 1/4" long…. stolen from Barron. The handles are easily turned. Made one is this swap:

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/133642


----------



## bobasaurus

I'm smooshing the hot steel tonight:










Here is what I started with:










Lots of work still. My arm sucks at this.


----------



## TheFridge

Just looked through the LN catalog that came in the mail. I can see why they got behind on orders this past year. There are noticeable differences in quite a few of their offerings. Christmas will be here soon


----------



## terryR

Bicycle chain damascus?
very cool


----------



## gargey

You want the highest quality product. If you buy lower quality, you'll get less than what you want, and you'll send a signal to the market that they're making something good enough, when they're not. Better to signal that you want top quality, and hope the U.S. market responds. Economic point of view…



> ^Gotta love dem shoulder planes.
> 
> Todd, the Ramelsons put me in an interesting predicament. I ll always attempt to buy North American first….but not at the expense of buying a Yugo;-) I ve always been the guy who would rather have two LN chisels over a whole box of Marples. So would I rather have a set of American made mediocre chisels….that are certain to need some work? Or would I just buy a couple Swiss Pfiel and be done with it?
> 
> Point: I don t mind paying more for American, but it s tough when the American option likely isn t up to the competition. If I can t buy American, my second best is to buy anywhere else that doesn t have sweatshops. I guess.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


----------



## gargey

You know what America/Murica/Mericky need to make more of, is hasps. Selection is so ********************.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Did you mean Rasps?



> Just looked through the LN catalog that came in the mail. I can see why they got behind on orders this past year. There are noticeable differences in quite a few of their offerings. Christmas will be here soon
> 
> - TheFridge


What else in new besides the Honing guide?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Another shout out for the Sterling DT square. Really help check my shizzle before I pounded this case together.









-


----------



## JayT

OK, Red, can you explain the purpose of the dovetail square to me? I see you use it, but still just don't quite understand what the big deal is. Are you just double checking that there are no high spots in the middle of the pin cutouts in the board or does it have some other purpose, too?


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> OK, Red, can you explain the purpose of the dovetail square to me? I see you use it, but still just don t quite understand what the big deal is. Are you just double checking that there are no high spots in the middle of the pin cutouts in the board or does it have some other purpose, too?
> 
> - JayT


http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/the-dovetail-doctor-the-sterling-dovetailing-ruler

Edit. I meant to link this article http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/joinery/defective-dovetail-diagnosis


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, like the articles says…checking for high spots. Also checking if one side of your socket is higher than the other (like in my pic). Also checks if tails are cut square.

I'm sure folks could make their own. It only took a few minutes to check my DTs and adjust with the square…..but it sure helped my fit. 3 of the 4 joints on that case fit perfect the first time. The last needed a few pins shaved…but I could tell I missed the line.


----------



## TheFridge

Adjusters and different setups on some of their smaller blocks and LA planes is what I noticed. Some other small details I can't put my finger on either.

I like a small 4" or smaller square for marking or checking small stuff. Reminds me to add something to the Christmas list.


----------



## gargey

> ^Did you mean Rasps?
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


No, hasps. I spent about two months SCOURING the interwebs for a hasp appropriate for my wall-hung tool cabinet. I finally settled for one with approximately appropriate dimensions but much flimsier construction than I was hoping for. Yes, it is non sequitur as a hardware item in a hand tool forum. I'm gonna start hasps.com and make two-chicks-at-the-same-time money.


----------



## ToddJB

Gargey, if you want quality and US based - go with a real blacksmith. This guy is great, and a great guy, to boot.

http://www.blackbearforge.com/


----------



## bobasaurus

I concur, John Switzer of Black Bear Forge is an incredible smith. He made me this great carving axe head, and I made the handle (can't remember if I posted it before):










I was proud of the wedging on the handle, though there were a few mistakes:


----------



## CL810

Allen. is the tenon a little proud? if so, can you just pound with a hammer to "round" it out and the wedges will look fine?


----------



## bobasaurus

It's proud about 3/8". Wedging the tenon increased its width, keeping it tightly in the eye.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

On Thursday, I should be getting a new tool. I'm sure you are all on the edge of your seats.


----------



## CL810

........On pins and needles.


----------



## WillliamMSP

In the not exciting, but kind of exciting category, I received Veritas' new Quick Release Wonder Dog yesterday.










A couple weeks ago, I started making a small bench for the basement (life intervened and the big bench for the garage is on pause 'til the spring) and I wanted to be up and running quickly, so I decided to keep things really simple in terms of construction - so no wagon or tail vise. I was thinking that I'd do a Wonder Dog/Pup, but wasn't looking forward to (what seems like it would be) fiddly twirling to adjust. This looks like a nice problem solver. Construction is solid. The full throw of the lever moves the head forward about 2mm, but the lever seems to be happy staying put anywhere within that travel once it actually engages the threads (IOW, it doesn't need to be fully advanced to lock).

I'll put up a review once the bench is complete and I have some time with it, but it's looking like a quick, inexpensive way to add some workholding capability to any surface you're willing to drill a few dogholes in to.


----------



## gargey

> Gargey, if you want quality and US based - go with a real blacksmith. This guy is great, and a great guy, to boot.
> 
> http://www.blackbearforge.com/
> 
> - ToddJB


Thanks. My hinges were nickel so had to go that route for the hasp. Plus spent about $200 total on wood an hardware for the cabinet, I bet a custom made blacksmith's hasp would be a good chunk of that.

Still, always good to add someone to my list of suppliers for when the right project comes up 

leevalley
hardware source
boltdepot
fastenal
woodworker
amazon
tandy leather
forgednails.com
https://www.dictum.com/en/ forged nails.
nwtimber.net
http://www.houseofantiquehardware.com/casement-window-stay-12-inch-brass
http://www.blacksmithbolt.com/
http://www.hardwoodtogo.com/index.php?p=404
vintagesaws.com - saw sharpening
Garretwade.com - folding ruler
horizonwood.com
http://www.mckinneyhardwoods.com/
Wall Lumber, Hearne Hardwood, Horizon Wood Products, Irion Lumber
http://www.thesawwright.com/Contact-Us.html
http://www.framingsupplies.com/
http://www.saddlebackleather.com/
http://craftsmanplans.com/sketchup.htm
Drawer slide hardware: Richlieu/Blum
https://www.osbornewood.com/13003.aspx - metal legs
Brandingirons.com
http://www.blackbearforge.com/ (blacksmith)


----------



## ColonelTravis

Bill, sorry, I can't tell from that picture how that thing works. I bought a couple vintage, non-wonderous metal dogs last weekend.

Gargey, I don't know if you're in Texas like me but I've been to McKinney Hardwoods and his selection is amazing. He had birdseye maple that was so birdseyey it was overwhelming. I've never seen that kind of figure in person. Michael the owner is a great guy.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Thanks. My hinges were nickel so had to go that route for the hasp. Plus spent about $200 total on wood an hardware for the cabinet, I bet a custom made blacksmith s hasp would be a good chunk of that.
> 
> Still, always good to add someone to my list of suppliers for when the right project comes up
> 
> - gargey


Just a FYI if you want your hardware to have the blacksmith look, buy some gun blue and dip zinc hardware in it and it turns it black like it's wrought. I got that fun little tip from my favorite woodworker C. Schwarz.

I use Birchwood Casey Super Gun Blue, you can get it at Dick's sporting goods or any gun store. It's about $10 for a 6oz bottle, but it can do quite a bit of hardware.


----------



## WillliamMSP

> Bill, sorry, I can t tell from that picture how that thing works. I bought a couple vintage, non-wonderous metal dogs last weekend.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Ah, apologies - what you don't see is that there's a dog post connected to the bottom of the black metal housing, so it can pop in to a 3/4" round dog hole of your choosing. With the lever in the forward position, the threaded rod slides freely through the housing, so that you can snug the brass head against your work piece. Then you pull the lever back and an internal mechanism engages the threads and pushes the rod/head firmly against the work piece, securing it (hopefully). I went this route so that I wouldn't have to build in a wagon or tail vise on the little bench I'm building, but I'm hopeful that it'll provide much of the same functionality.


----------



## Brit

> In the not exciting, but kind of exciting category, I received Veritas new Quick Release Wonder Dog yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - WillliamMSP


Thanks for posting that Bill. I hadn't seen the quick release version. Like you I haven't bought the other version because of all the twirling. That looks like a great improvement.


----------



## terryR

The twirling isn't so bad. Your fingers get used to the motion.










Still, a poor substitute for an end vise.


----------



## ColonelTravis

AH HA!
Dumb me, thanks for the explanation.


----------



## gargey

I'm in Houston, so it would be a hike. Clark's has a great selection though.



> Gargey, I don t know if you re in Texas like me but I ve been to McKinney Hardwoods and his selection is amazing. He had birdseye maple that was so birdseyey it was overwhelming. I ve never seen that kind of figure in person. Michael the owner is a great guy.
> - ColonelTravis


----------



## ColonelTravis

Need to glue leather to the jaws and put on a coat of shellac but here's a fully functioning moxon, design courtesy the Philadelphia Furniture Workshop, which used hardware from TFWW, which I also used. Lamb tongue on the front jaw thanks to this LJ, I didn't come up with the idea.










Before I built this, I consulted the Benchcrafted plans and they said to make the front jaw a little taller than the back jaw for easy alignment to the front of the bench. At first I thought - why can't you just eyeball it and align it yourself? But I built the front jaw taller like they suggested and I'm very glad I did. You just slide it to the bench and it stops right there at the side, no eyeball alignment needed. With the jaws open, gravity pulls the front jaw down a little, then when you tighten things, it comes back up. Nice idea. It's not necessary to make it this way but I really like it.

Front jaw is calico hickory, rear is maple. Glued a thick maple strip on the rear jaw to help support a board for DT marking.


----------



## theoldfart

Nice vise CT. When did you finish your bench? Don't remember your obligatory Bondo!


----------



## ColonelTravis

Statute of limitations expired for the bench - but the Bondo was on my mind (seriously) last month at Zion NP, on a rock in the middle of the Narrows trail, which is pretty much all river.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

Blue Spruce 1 1/2" paring chisel. Olive handle.


----------



## theoldfart

Ok CT. Been there done that, one of the most beautiful places we've been.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Yeah Zion is incredible, great trip.
Beauty of a paring chisel, bulldog.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Never heard of Zion. Looks incredible. I have rafted Cataract Canyon though.

That Blue Spruce chisel is drool worthy. I've got a 1" w/ Coco. I know Jeske was outsourcing his blades/chisels….to his standards. He was working on making them himself….wonder if he is yet?

CT- the Moxon looks awesome. I've learned to make every moving jaw/part over-sized. I can always plane it down when the action is installed and settled.


----------



## DLK

> At first I thought - why can t you just eyeball it and align it yourself? But I built the front jaw taller like they suggested and I m very glad I did. You just slide it to the bench and it stops right there at the side, no eyeball alignment needed.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Glad you like it but even with out the front over hang you can first chuck a plank in the vice, slide it up to the bench and then fix in place with the holdfasts.


----------



## woodcox

Bulldog, very nice. How did you get that paring chisel in 1 1/2" width? I can only see them offering up to 1" width in their paring chisels.

Nice work colonel. Thanks for the lambs tongue link, I would like to try that soon.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Stopped in here today.




























Sigh, I love Maine.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dang Norm, I'm green. Next best….I get to go to all the Handworks shows seeing as they're in Amana IA.

The FineWoodworking crew refer to the LN showroom as the "Crack House." Evidently everyone leaves an addict


----------



## AgentTwitch

I did a weekend Workshop there this past summer and was the only student that did not buy anything. I don't know how I did it. Honestly. I don't…

It might have had something to do with purchases ahead of time…


----------



## theoldfart

Norm, did a weekend there with the Schwarz. Only bought a book, but I did lust in my mind . A lotta noice toys are in there.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Lust in my mind…..lol.

That's a place where I'd rather ask for forgiveness rather than permission;-)


----------



## woodcox

They are here in Salt Lake today and tomorrow and my b day is today. If I can get out of work for a while I may just have to sip the koolade and gift myself. Forgiveness ahead of permission. Got it.


----------



## ColonelTravis

What do they produce at the Maine HQ? I just figured (perhaps wrongly) that much was outsourced.

Happy B Day woodcox - buy something dammit!


----------



## AgentTwitch

I couldn't give you an accurate figure. On the tour they have lots of tools in production. I am pretty sure they make most tools that don't say they were made for Lie Nielsen (carving tools, mallet, etc) they sell other vendors stuff on their site, of course, but even their DVDs are produced in house (aside from Charlseworth videos in the UK). They certainly do outsource the foundry work, work bench tops, and some mechanical parts).


----------



## theoldfart

LN's foundry is also in Maine. I think much of their handle wood is locally sourced as well. They are rabid keep it local people. If you can, talk to Deneb. He is a well spoken and fervent proponent for American manufacturing.


----------



## woodcox

Speaking of koolade, I was born on the day of the Jonestown tragedy. So there is that.

I managed to get out of work and run down to the handtool event for a few minutes. My first experience with LN and I am really impressed with quality they have put into everything. I test drove the 95 and I believe I will have to have that one someday. Also, I really liked their panel saws and I think their size would be ideal for me at the bench. I was most impressed with the shooter, that thing is truly an awesome tool! I deeply regret not having the time to stay and play but, work was waiting. I did order the honing guide with the long jaws and picked out Mr. Schwarz's six board chest DVD. Though, I suspect I may need more than six boards to pull it off I got to meet some great people, among them was Anne of all trades, who was taking orders. It felt right handing her a fist full of cash for her smile alone, that girl rocks!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

You guys are reminding me to make my Hand Works reservations. Wen't out drinking beer with the LN guys and other tool makers last time. They are some characters.

That darn Lee Valley Cyber Monday/Factory Seconds sales is coming up. Sunday I believe. The only reason I don't have an LN Shooter is because I picked up a Veritas a few years back on that sale. Sweet tool for that price.

Come to think of it, I've never seen any of their veritas chisels in that sale. They might not mess with seconds on chisels. If they do, you'd better be able to type your credit card # faster than me;-)


----------



## bobasaurus

Red, I might get a gift card from that sale when it comes. The seconds seem like a good deal, but by the time you pay for shipping they're not all that much cheaper than buying a new plane on a free shipping day with a discounted card (I believe, at least… I have bought a lot of their seconds, but no cards yet).

Can't wait for handworks, the last one was one of my favorite events.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Sounds like fun, Red. Hope you get to hang out with other cool vendors this year.

During the tour I found out that Lie Nielsen will sell saw nuts to their customers, including the medallion nut. I may get the bronze plaque that they recess in their workbenches for my tool chest I plan to build. I am too much of a fan boy…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Fanboy Norm LOL. I guess some might call me that too. I wondered if I'd come across that way hanging out with those guys….but no. I was another furniture maker who loved their company and tools…..you'd be surprised how much more people have in common when those things align.

Allen, I hear ya. I've done both….bought tools or the gift card and waited for free shipping again. Thinkin the shooter was like $80 off…... so even with shipping it was a deal. Or, as with the case this year, I've already got a bunch of hardware in my cart, so I'm gonna pay the shipping anyway.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Hurray for panel saw hardware!


----------



## ColonelTravis

If lovin L-N is wrong, I don't ever wanna be right!
I have bought more Veritas stuff lately, however. We are fortunate to have both.


----------



## JADobson

I'm canadian and have a lee valley store just 5 minutes from where I live. It is really convenient. However, I really like the look of the lie-neilson planes and started pricing one out. At least $550 to get a #4 to my door. I can get two veritas planes for that. Wish I could justify that but it just doesn't make sense to go with LN. Fortunatley the LV stuff is really good.


----------



## jmartel

BadAxe just posted this up on their facebook page. Do want.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> I m canadian and have a lee valley store just 5 minutes from where I live.
> - JADobson


This would be the death of my bank account. Seriously. They have so much non-woodworking stuff, too, there's no way I could financially survive if we were in the same nation.


----------



## JADobson

Oh the wife keeps a pretty close eye on the old bank account. You think you need that plane but her face says otherwise 

I kid, she just bought me the LAJ for my birthday.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I m canadian and have a lee valley store just 5 minutes from where I live. It is really convenient. However, I really like the look of the lie-neilson planes and started pricing one out. At least $550 to get a #4 to my door. I can get two veritas planes for that. Wish I could justify that but it just doesn t make sense to go with LN. Fortunatley the LV stuff is really good.
> 
> - JADobson


$550? What duh? You have to pay a sumbuckin tariff or what? I'd be lookin on ebay.

But ya, you already have access to a solid tool company.


----------



## Mosquito

Canadian dollar is down, about .75 per 1 USD right now. Between that and shipping, I'm not surprised at all by $550 CAD for a $350USD plane. I'm guessing shipping is close to $40-$50 USD making it about $400 USD, which is $541CAD.

Good time to buy stuff from Canada though lol


----------



## JADobson

You got it Mos. Just don't take anything I want from LV on Monday 

We also pay duty on any import worth more than $20. I did find a Canadian retailer of LN but still $525. 
http://www.ultimatetools.ca/collections/handtools-and-accessories/products/smoothing-plane-4?variant=413657129

You're right though Red, Veritas is great. Just doesn't have that classic look.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, ain't gonna BS ya. I prefer LN…..but I'm not facing those crappy economics. Could a guy here buy you one and ship it to ya? Or are they always watching the mail too?

That stuff's just interesting to me. You'd think a guy who works for the largest shipper/transportation company in the US would know these things. lawlz.

The new line of Veritas bench planes were a big leap in aesthetics imo. Still can't justify buying one.

Wait, what if they have some tomorrow night…....


----------



## bobasaurus

Still forging this drawknife, this is the third session working on it:










It just barely fits in the forge after bending the tangs:


----------



## JADobson

> Ya, ain t gonna BS ya. I prefer LN…..but I m not facing those crappy economics. Could a guy here buy you one and ship it to ya? Or are they always watching the mail too?
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


The low dollar is the killer. Right now $350 US turns into $473 CAD. I can almost get two Veritas planes for that.

Allen, that drawknife looks rad.


----------



## DLK

Is it better to have a forge or a kiln? (For molding irons and maybe carving knives.)


----------



## bobasaurus

Don, if you just plan on doing heat treatment a digital oven/kiln is much better. Controlling temperature with a forge is difficult… they're designed to get super hot (2500 deg F or so), not stay at a fixed lower heat (like the 1500 deg F needed for hardening O1).


----------



## bobasaurus

I rough ground it:










The bicycle chain links are showing well. The old file I used as a base even has some of the original cuts/grooves showing on the sides. I still need to apply the anti-scale coating, harden, temper, and do final grinding and polishing. After all that I'll acid etch it to hopefully show the rivets in the center of each chain link.


----------



## woodcox

Very cool Allen. Chili forge?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

James- Dang exchange rate. Gotcha. No way of getting around that.

Pretty sweet Allen.

Seems like a good time to revisit this video for those who haven't heard it. It's an alleged dialog at an LN event. The language gets pretty bad at the end…..but it's friggin hilarious, and true.

$300 is a lot of Money


----------



## bobasaurus

Thanks. Yes, it is the Chile Habanero 2-burner forge. I didn't want to build a propane burning contraption myself that sits so close to the woodshop, so I left it to the professionals. It works great, though it burns through serious propane. I've filled my 40 lb tank 3 times since March.


----------



## woodcox

I hadn't heard that before now, Red. That is comedy! My wife busted up over the walmart comment. Thank you for that.


----------



## terryR

Looks fine, Allen! Glad you mentioned all the extra propane, so I can plan ahead for that.

Thanks, Red. I hate walmart, refuse to shop there.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, that video cracks me up every times. Sounds like some LJ threads unfortunately.

Here's one that is more related to wood than tools. My brother is an arborist…..so I know he relates. 




View on YouTube

Tonight's the big night.


----------



## Tim457

Ha, that second one is like the one I saw at the same time I saw that $300 is a lot of money one. Here's the one I saw:




I think of that every time I see someone list a black walnut tree on craigslist. They want someone to take it down and pay them for it.

Allen, that is so awesome.


----------



## AgentTwitch

+1 for awesome work, Allen! I cant wait to see the finished product! The bike chain Damascus is very intriguing and has a great look.

The $300 is a lot of money video is pretty funny. You hear both arguments a lot here on lumberjocks (and other forums).

This Thanksgiving break I had a chance to work on some saw handles for a set of tools I am building for a traveling tool chest.



















This is a panel saw and a sash saw handle. I have a dovetail saw handle not in this picture (in African blackwood-might make one in curly maple for the traveling tool chest and another set in blackwood for the shop)The basic idea is that I would like to make several of the tools that go into it. I dont think that I will be building the metal bodied infills or drop forge chisels anytime soon, but maybe someday I will. For now I can do some of the layout tools, screw drivers and saws.


----------



## bobasaurus

Those are some beautiful handles. How did you finish them?


----------



## AgentTwitch

Thanks, Allen. I finished the maple handles with BLO and several coats of Minwax Antique Oil. I think I want to seal them with shellac and try a waterborne polycrylic on them. While I like the feeling of oil and wax finishes, I think I may prefer the durability of the poly for the long run.


----------



## CL810

+1 to the polycryclic, I'm becoming a big fan. Sponge brush and 3 coats in 1-2 hours.


----------



## bigblockyeti

What kind of sponge brush do you use? I usually pick up a big pack of the cheap ones then trash them after each application which usually works out ok but sometimes leaves a little to be desired. Are some better than others?


----------



## CL810

I was using the cheapest but this last time I bought a little better brush and it seems to work better. Grey sponge. The polycyclic rinses out very quickly.


----------



## DLK

> Don, if you just plan on doing heat treatment a digital oven/kiln is much better. Controlling temperature with a forge is difficult… they re designed to get super hot (2500 deg F or so), not stay at a fixed lower heat (like the 1500 deg F needed for hardening O1).
> 
> - bobasaurus


Thanks. What sort of digital oven/kiln do you recommend I look for? They seem expensive so I may have to get one used.


----------



## bobasaurus

They're all super expensive. Evenheat and Paragon make heat treatment ovens for crazy $. I'd be tempted to just build one. They're just a cheap PID controller and thermocouple hooked up to a relay controlling the heating elements in an insulated firebrick box. You can buy all the individual parts pretty cheap.


----------



## DLK

> They re all super expensive. Evenheat and Paragon make heat treatment ovens for crazy $. I d be tempted to just build one. They re just a cheap PID controller and thermocouple hooked up to a relay controlling the heating elements in an insulated firebrick box. You can buy all the individual parts pretty cheap.
> 
> - bobasaurus


Yes I think you are correct. Well I guess it will be on my loooong list of tools to make.


----------



## Mosquito

Well that was easy… Nothin' for me on this years LV Cyber Monday. Was tempted by the spokeshaves, but ultimately…. nah. Bed time. Good luck to those who are chasing something this evening


----------



## bobasaurus

Nothing really appealed to me either, Mos. First time in many years I haven't bought anything during this sale.


----------



## CL810

Ditto. Also tempted by spokeshaves. Ended up buying a gift cert.


----------



## bobasaurus

The rivet outlines are now showing after heat treatment, grinding/sanding, acid etching, and more sanding:




  






Sucker is sharp too (even at just the 180 grit belt I ground it at for now), already cut myself.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Allen, that looks amazing! Keep up the good work. Any thoughts of using a motorcycle chain (non O-ringed of course) for any projects in the future?


----------



## terryR

Allen, that is looking great after etching! I hope you are counting the total hours of work in this project. And, I sure hope you sign it when done!

Sweet looking handles, Norm!


----------



## bobasaurus

Thanks guys. Motorcycle roller chain might work well if I can get it without o-rings. I have a lot of time into it already.

I'm actually making this to swap with Brian (bearkat) for one of his fine saws. It'll be hard to let it go… might need to make another for myself.


----------



## terryR

Worn chainsaw blades? I have a stack.

Allen, I'll be ready to trade for a knife blank in the near future.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Gotta love the bartering for some made in USA tools!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Nothing really appealed to me either, Mos. First time in many years I haven t bought anything during this sale.
> 
> - bobasaurus


Same here. Good sale for those starting up. Actually the discount seems a little smaller this go round. Thinkin the tools I want would never be in that sale. Chisels etc


----------



## Mosquito

Chisels were about the only thing I was really hoping for as well. Thought about a gift card, but would rather not tie up the cash until I'm ready to pick something up (I'd say I order something from LV maybe once every 12-18 months)


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Thanks, Allen. I finished the maple handles with BLO and several coats of Minwax Antique Oil.
> 
> - AgentTwitch


Yeah, beautiful handles. Let me ask because I didn't understand, sorry, still learning about finishes. Did you use BLO first and then the Minwax? If so, is that to enhance the figure? Or is one BLO and the other antique oil? I love the Minwax antique oil stuff but never applied anything in addition to it, or before it.

I've made a few things out of figured walnut and finished them with the antique oil only. They look nice but I wondered if there was anything better to bring out the figure a little more, maybe it's not possible.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Allen, your chain stuff is stupendous.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Nothing really appealed to me either, Mos. First time in many years I haven t bought anything during this sale.
> 
> - bobasaurus
> 
> Same here. Good sale for those starting up. Actually the discount seems a little smaller this go round. Thinkin the tools I want would never be in that sale. Chisels etc
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Was hoping for the Router Plane or the Large/Medium Shoulder plane myself, but I think I'll wait and get the plow plane as I am going to embark upon building the English chest by Schwarz or some semblance of it anyway. The custom plow The Schwarz had made is dreamy and I can only guess what it costs, my wife would put me out to pasture if I ever spent that on a single plane.


----------



## JADobson

I checked the sale at 1:00 am and the #4s were already sold out. Settled for the gift card. Good news is that it has already shipped.


----------



## JayT

I looked at the Lee Valley sale. The only things I would have considered were the 1/4 and 3/8 detail rabbet planes and maybe a spokeshave, but wasn't going to stay up and by the time I checked this morning, they were out. No biggie, there wasn't that big of a discount anyways. I'll just wait for a free shipping time.


----------



## AgentTwitch

> ...Did you use BLO first and then the Minwax? If so, is that to enhance the figure?...
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Yes sir, I use thinned out BLO with equal parts mineral spirits to soak into the grain. The Minwax Antique Oil is pretty thick in comparison. 2-3 coats of the antique oil has been where I stopped in the past, maybe some wax and steel wool. I just sprayed them both with shellac sealer and several coats of the polycrylic finish. I like the results. Time will tell how durable the finish will be. The polycrylic dries fast, which is nice. It cleans up easy too.


----------



## jmartel

> Was hoping for the Router Plane or the Large/Medium Shoulder plane myself, but I think I ll wait and get the plow plane as I am going to embark upon building the English chest by Schwarz or some semblance of it anyway. The custom plow The Schwarz had made is dreamy and I can only guess what it costs, my wife would put me out to pasture if I ever spent that on a single plane.
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


Those were both on sale last year. Typically they don't have repeats from year to year as it takes them a couple years to build up enough stock of manufacturing seconds. So, maybe in another year or two they will have them? I picked up a medium shoulder last year.


----------



## woodcox

The wif pre-approved the miter plane and then said "that is all you want for Christmas?" but, I need a lot more before the want list gets touched. I settled for a Damascus knife blank from Woodcraft. And socks. I really need socks.


----------



## bobasaurus

Norm, does polycrylic have any advantage of polyurethane? I've heard some bad reviews of it in the past.

I bought one of those second hand router planes last year, it's great.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Allen, I am no expert in wood finishing, but from what I have seen it is thinner and dry quickly which is an advantage for me with my touch up spray gun. It also cleans up easily before it dries.

It is not as durable as oil based poly, so it's probably not a good choice for table tops. It also does nothing to tone the wood like an oil based poly can do. It is basically crystal clear. That is not really a negative as you can tone with BLO or Dyes, and if you want a white wood like Holly to stay white and not appear yellow, the polycrylic might be a good choice.

I have wanted to try it and will know more about its durability after putting the saws into regular use. I did spray my Miller's Falls 2a as well.


----------



## gargey

*QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS*

It's time for me to finally get a plow plane. Cutting grooves with a saw and a chisel/router has gotten old fast. LN doesn't offer one (most of my stuff is LN).

Is the LV small plow the way to go? Doesn't it make sense to go all the way and get the conversion kit, and all the (imperial) blades? $500 stings a bit, but you buy it once.

There are rumors they will come out with a large plow plane, right? What would I miss out on (or would I be in good shape with the small + conversion kit)?

[ No, I'm not interested in rehabbing old stuff ]

Thanks for any insight.


----------



## bobasaurus

I've been waiting to hear more about the LV large plow plane. I know they planned on having a preorder discount on it.


----------



## Mosquito

*gargey* there are plenty of perfectly usable as-is Stanley #50 or Record 050 planes on Ebay that would only require sharpening the irons with no "rehab" needed (I assume you can sharpen irons if you use planes and chisels already). I'm sure you could find one for less than the $275 of a small plow from LV with standard irons (I've looked).

That said, if you won't do vintage, what other option do you have? Either keep doing it the way you are and sit and wait (hope) for the large plow plane from LV or LN, or get the small plow from Veritas now&ast; (&ast; once it's in stock).

How often do you do wide grooves, dadoes or rabbets? Do you need the conversion kit or just want it because you save a little by getting it all at once? Hard to tell you what's best with little context, unfortunately. Since you don't say anything about beading, or width. I'd go with the Plow with 5 imperial blades, and decide if you'd want the conversion kit or not once you start using it. If it's rare that you would need it, just stick with the saw, chisel, router plane method for those, and save the 40%. Or do 2 grooves next to each other to get the proper width. Several ways to get around not having the right width iron.

I really want LN to actually produce their plow plane. I haven't bought any LN planes new, only second hand, but that one I would consider…. if circumstances worked out advantageously.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Mos, I am with you. My understanding is that the LN plow plane is (and has been) ready to go, but they are so busy fufilling current orders, that they cant produce this new tool right now. This is hearsay from one of their employees. I have heard so many different reasons why its not available for purchase that I hesitated to share this. This tool is definitely on my bucket list. Cant wait to get the email that says they are ready for pre-order.

*Edit*: I will add that they may make an improvement to the functionality over the prototype for stopped grooves. It was a discussion last summer. Who knows what come of it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya gargery, Veritas or Vintage are pretty much your options… aside from really high-end plow options.

Since I'm still plowing with 'lectrons…..I can't speak as to weather you'd use all the different blades. If you're thinking you would….might have to pull the trigger.

Maybe you should just keep the return slip that comes with every Veritas tool for awhile. Then if LN comes out with theirs, you can send the veritas back;-P


----------



## Brit

There are a couple of other options for buying a new plough (to use the proper spelling) plane.

Quangsheng 043

Philly Planes Small Plough Plane


----------



## Brit

...but I guess they're not modern American.


----------



## DLK

They are really not all that difficult to make too.


----------



## terryR

now taking pre-orders. 










Your choice of steel for the iron. Your choice of iron width. Knicker included. Your choice of wood for the body. Brass or bronze fittings. Elk antler additional. Mammoth ivory available! $2200.


----------



## Brit

Does it come in pink Terry? If so, I'll take one in African Blackwood, mammoth of course, O1 iron, brass fittings. Free postage? Hard case? Part-exchange? Interest free credit?


----------



## terryR

Oh yeah, deposit required.

Andy, I've already started on yours!


----------



## gargey

To clarify, you use an electric router?

I have one, but I don't have a router table, or a setup I like for using it right side up. Plus people really emphasize how they will chew you up, and I do this in part to relax…



> Since I m still plowing with lectrons…..
> - BigRedKnothead


----------



## ColonelTravis

Gargey I've got the Veritas plow with 1/4" T&G blades (the groove blade is just the regular straight blade it comes with), a 1/2" straight blade and a 1/4" bead. For what I do, I don't need for all the blades they offer, like how I look at chisels vs. a standard set of chisels.

Love the plane, if you use hand tools primarily you need one, whether it's this or another model. Otherwise, you can easily do the work on a table saw or power router. I gave both those up so the plow was a no-brainer.

For the 1/2" blade and other larger blades you need to order their wide blade converter. When I was using the 1/2 without it, everything was a mess. Couldn't figure out what was happening. When I ordered my plane they had just started making the updated version and like an idiot I mistakenly thought the new one didn't need a wide blade adapter. No, moron (me, not you) it does.

Norm that's interesting info. about the LN plow. Didn't know they were that close to coming out with one.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

gargey, that was just my goofy way of saying I don't have a hand tool capable of plowing right now. I've been waiting for the LN, too.

Depending on the task, I use a router (table or freehand), or the tablesaw. For example, if I'm making one drawer for an end table, I just setup the tablesaw the drawer bottom groove. Make one pass, move the fence over the width of the blade, make another…. til I have the groove I want.

I've heard the horrors of router tables. I believe they are very similar to tablesaws. That is, if you use them correctly, you're fine. If you gamble/cut corners….it's only a matter of time til you get bit. That said, I barely use mine, and would use it even less if I had a plow plane.

Along those lines, I posted previously about using the Veritas skew rabbet for DT rabbets….









No doubt this is faster than installing the dado blade. And, more accurate when handling a 5' long panel. Beauty of hand tools.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> ...but I guess they re not modern American.
> 
> - Brit


ehh, had no idea Philly was making a plow. Good on them.

If you ever got a chance to have a pint with those boys, don't pass it up. They're hilarious.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Norm's got me eyeballing the Blue Spruce site. These chisels are buh-scusting….


----------



## Mosquito

Mmmm Blue Spruce.

Speaking of chisels, anyone here have any of the Veritas PM-V11 chisels? Anyone with a direct comparison to LN? I've read a lot of "reviews" on them but most don't have more than a few days to few weeks using them.


----------



## woodcox

My birthday present finally showed up. I can't wait to try my little spokeshave blades out with it. I have been doing them by hand mostly and I can never get them consistently honed well enough. The wheel on my record knock-off guide seized up on the stone for a few strokes and left it with some flat spots. I also have a veritas guide that I have always had trouble keeping the work squarely clamped down and tight. I really like that every part is replaceable and it should be a lifetime tool. I will purchase the additional jaws as needed but, I think I am set for now. 








I used my birthday discount at woodcraft to pick up an aggressive dmt duo stone in coarse and x-coarse. The guy at the counter gave the coupon back to me to get me back in the store before the end of the month. Smart business move. I've saved thirty bucks and been back twice with it.


----------



## jmartel

Gargey,

LV is coming out with a large plow plane. They have a prototype done, but no word on when it will be released.

Here's some photos of it. I happened to save the photos when I saw them early this year:


----------



## Brit

> The wheel on my record knock-off guide seized up on the stone for a few strokes and left it with some flat spots.
> 
> - woodcox


Same thing happened to me last month woody. I replaced it with the Trend guide. Only used it a couple of times so far, but it works well and the angle setting appliance is so compact and easy to use. I do a lot of sharpening freehand, but for plane blades and bench chisels I like to use a guide.


----------



## woodcox

That looks pretty sweet Andy. I had no idea trend had a honing guide. Does the wheel sit in a trough for registration?


----------



## Brit

Yes it does Woody. You can see it here:


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> Mmmm Blue Spruce.
> 
> Speaking of chisels, anyone here have any of the Veritas PM-V11 chisels? Anyone with a direct comparison to LN? I ve read a lot of "reviews" on them but most don t have more than a few days to few weeks using them.
> 
> - Mosquito


I have some experience with both. What are you wanting to compare? The steel is better on the Veritas. I have small hands, and prefer the LN handles. Until you hit 3/4, that's about when the LN starts to feel a little unbalanced to me. The torrified maple handles of the Veritas are strong and durable.

In summation, I like them both. I like the handles of the LN. You can go a stupid long time between sharpening on the Veritas. Hell, throw in a horse butt leather strop with some of that green stuff….they may not ever have to go back to the stones.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Bulldog, that's basically what I was looking for. I've got a set of Ashley Iles (am I allowed to mention those in this forum? lol), but so far haven't been too impressed with the steel. I feel like I end up having to sharpen them a lot, especially when working with oak. Looking between PM-V11 or LN most likely. I like the handles on my Ashley Iles, haven't really used LN much though (only have a 1/10" mortise from LN). It seemed like the LV handles were closer to the Ashley Iles than the LN. I might pick up a single chisel from each, see how I like them, and go from there.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

I ordered a LN and a Blue Spruce. My buddy has the full set of Veritas. If I could get a LN handle, acrylic infused by Blue Spruce, with PMV-11 steel….

The acrylic infused handles from Blue Spruce are pretty special. Months of hitting the damn thing, still looks brand new.


----------



## Brit

> If I could get a LN handle, acrylic infused by Blue Spruce, with PMV-11 steel….
> 
> The acrylic infused handles from Blue Spruce are pretty special. Months of hitting the damn thing, still looks brand new.
> 
> - BulldogLouisiana


What steel are the Blue Spruce chisels?


----------



## gargey

Thanks for the responses regarding plow planes guys. And the response on plough planes too.

I'm not "in the know" whatsoever, but given that rumors/pictures of the LN plow first started circulating years ago and nothing has come of them since, I'm skeptical that we can count of them releasing it any time soon, if ever.


----------



## ToddJB

Andy, according to their website their Pairing chisels are A2, but their bench and butt chisels do not state the steel type.

Edit: The Best Things states they're all A2: http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/blue_spruce_chisels.htm


----------



## Brit

Thanks Todd. Had I not been at work, I would have looked myself.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Thanks for the responses regarding plow planes guys. And the response on plough planes too.
> 
> I m not "in the know" whatsoever, but given that rumors/pictures of the LN plow first started circulating years ago and nothing has come of them since, I m skeptical that we can count of them releasing it any time soon, if ever.
> 
> - gargey


I just emailed LN the other day to check on the status of the Plow Plane and the response I got was that they were looking to start taking pre-orders this coming year, they just had to fit it into production, but they've been saying similar for awhile so who knows.


----------



## gargey

Does Veritas have a 12-month lease program with a low down payment? I am ok with low mileage.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Does Veritas have a 12-month lease program with a low down payment? I am ok with low mileage.
> 
> - gargey


If any of them had a lease program I wish it was Jim Leamy, the reproduction planes he makes are unbelievable.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dang. Good stuff guys.



> The steel is better on the Veritas.
> 
> - BulldogLouisiana


Wow. I thought the LN A2 steel was a revelation. Whatever cryogenic magic Thomas does works. It's a step above other A2 steels I've used. I have a few Veritas planes, and I always get the pmv11. They are sweet.

Brit- I think I noted earlier, Jeske (Blue Spruce) was outsourcing his chisel steel (to a place in CA I believe), but he was in the works of making them himself. Not sure if he is as of yet. They are A2 with some cryo-voodoo as well. The steel is right on par with LN imo.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

gargey- I too have been impatient with the LN plow. I too have been told its ready to roll (Thomas takes his time in the design process) they just need to work it in production. I love to see that company doing so well…..but the spoiled consumer in my would like them to operate on my terms…ha!

Congrats on the LN guide woodcox. That thing is schwweet. I too ordered my with the jaws for spokies….no regrets.

I made this high tech guide. Not sure why…..I really only use the 35 degree setting.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh Mos. I feel the same way about the Ashley Iles butt chisels I have. The taper and size are perfect for dovetailing….but the steel dulls faster than I like. Not a huge deal. I'm fast freehanding too….but…..

The only replacement I can see would be the Blue Spruce butts…...those aren't gonna happen until another promotion….or two


----------



## AgentTwitch

I would love to try some Blue Spruce chisels. They look so elegant. Not that I don't love the LN set.

I do enjoy my marking set and mallet by Jeske.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Norm, start with an innocent Blue Spruce paring chisel on your Christmas list;-P


----------



## Mosquito

lol I'm in the same boat re: Blue Spruce chisels. I'm having a hard enough time with Veritas or LN (there's a reason I got the Ashley Iles chisels in the first place). They are good chisels, work well, and like Red said, great for dovetails. Just a little soft for me.

A set of all 3 (PMV11, LN, and Blue Spruce) all around for Christmas! Now just need to find someone to bank roll that lol


----------



## JayT

> A set of all 3 (PMV11, LN, and Blue Spruce) all around for Christmas! Now just need to find someone to bank roll that lol
> 
> - Mosquito


When you find that person, can I sub a set of Barr Quarton's instead, along with the 1/8 and 3/8 fill in sizes? Don't know which of those three I'd leave out, but I've been lusting over some Barr's for years.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well shoot. Never heard of Barr Tools. I had to add him to the OP list. They are pretty handsome. American version of the Japanese hand-forged claim:










Looks like he's around Blue Spruce (BS in an unfortunate acronym).

My hand plane love affair rolled into saws… then chisels….it never ends. $300-500 bucks is a lot of cash in some terms. But then I think of the dang car repairs I've made for more cash than that…..and I'd rather have the chisels. heh.


----------



## JayT

> My hand plane love affair rolled into saws… then chisels….it never ends. $300-500 bucks is a lot of cash in some terms. But then I think of the dang car repairs I ve made for more cash than that…..and I d rather have the chisels. heh.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Amen to that, Red. I'm still on vintage for a lot of tools, but Bad Axe and Bob are making me rethink the saws and there are several chisel makers out there that do great work. Blue Spruce look so elegant and classy, while the Barr's have a strong, rugged, indestructible vibe going.

Surprised you hadn't heard of them, as David Barron uses them in one of his videos showing his dovetail guides.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> My hand plane love affair rolled into saws… then chisels….it never ends. $300-500 bucks is a lot of cash in some terms. But then I think of the dang car repairs I ve made for more cash than that…..and I d rather have the chisels. heh.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead
> 
> Amen to that, Red. I m still on vintage for a lot of tools, but Bad Axe and Bob are making me rethink the saws and there are several chisel makers out there that do great work. Blue Spruce look so elegant and classy, while the Barr s have a strong, rugged, indestructible vibe going.
> 
> Surprised you hadn t heard of them, as David Barron uses them in one of his videos showing his dovetail guides.
> 
> - JayT


I went to a class at Marc Adams recently. Everyone in the class loved my Blue Spruce chisel. I did the same thing that Mos is considering. Just bought one of each. Chisels are so personal. I'm pretty sure I'll be expanding with Blue Spruce. I'll be expanding more slowly though


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Surprised you hadn t heard of them, as David Barron uses them in one of his videos showing his dovetail guides.
> 
> - JayT


Ha! I think I had written those chisels off as some Japanese chisels that I wasn't interested in. Goofy Brit's buying 'merican chisels.

Actually, I think someone asked awhile back if you can use LN saws with his DT guide. He has a new vid addressing such questions. Such a jolly chap:





View on YouTube


----------



## Brit

What no love for Aussie engineering?










http://www.haroldandsaxon.com/


----------



## JayT

Those are lovely, Andy, but that would be a different thread. This one is for tools made in one of the rebellious former British colonies, not those that had a peaceful separation.


----------



## Brit

Sorry Jay, I'm back in my box now. :-(


----------



## JADobson

> Those are lovely, Andy, but that would be a different thread. This one is for tools made in one of the rebellious former British colonies, not those that had a peaceful separation.
> 
> - JayT


I believe there was an exception made for Canuckistan. We said please and thank you. (and then I'm sorry).


----------



## CL810

Bulldog, do you think the higher bevel angle of the Veritas chisels (30 degrees with a 2 degree micro bevel) contributes to edge retention? do you notice a difference between them and a chisel at 25 degrees/5 degree micro bevel?

What class did you take at Marc Adams


----------



## Brit

CL810 - Re: the PMV11 Veritas chisels, only the 3/8 and smaller chisels have a 30 degree primary bevel. All of the larger sizes have a 25 degree primary bevel. All of the chisels (regardless of size) come with a 2 degree micro bevel, so 32 or 27 respectively.


----------



## gargey

I am a pedant. As such, I will inform you that that would be an initialism, not an acronym. With an acronym, you pronounce the letters as a word (such as NATO).



> Looks like he s around Blue Spruce (BS in an unfortunate acronym).
> - BigRedKnothead


----------



## widdle

Thought i would chime in on the blue Spruce chisels. I've owned and used quite a bit of these chisels …Older Marples,Irwin,Lie Nielsen,hand forged japanese chisels…

In my experience i would put the edge retention as follows.

Japanese
Lie Nielsen
Older maples (blue handles)/Blue Spruce
Irwin (blue Handles)

I always had a 1" Older marbles in my bags as a carpenter ,soo that is what I'm used to. That being said, as for feel and weight , i would rank them in order

Japanese
Blue Spruce 
Marples
Lie Nielsen

Not trying to say what's better or anything, just my experience relating to the feel in hand.


----------



## Mosquito

good to know Widdle, thanks for sharing. All insight is good insight


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Widdle's a hack. I wouldn't give him any undue props Mos…. Nah, interesting to hear his take, as he as all of them. I think he just talked me out of Blue Spruce. Now, do the Barr hand forged measure up to Japanese chisels? Dum, dum, duummmmm…..

gargey…..I stand corrected….lawlz.

Those are sexy chisels…..even for a limey.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> ^Widdle s a hack. I wouldn t give him any undue props Mos…. Nah, interesting to hear his take, as he as all of them. I think he just talked me out of Blue Spruce. Now, do the Barr hand forged measure up to Japanese chisels? Dum, dum, duummmmm…..
> 
> gargey…..I stand corrected….lawlz.
> 
> Those are sexy chisels…..even for a limey.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Japanese chisels? This is your thread Red.


----------



## woodcox

Bulldog. How did you get that BS paring chisel in 1 1/2" width?


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> Bulldog, do you think the higher bevel angle of the Veritas chisels (30 degrees with a 2 degree micro bevel) contributes to edge retention? do you notice a difference between them and a chisel at 25 degrees/5 degree micro bevel?
> 
> What class did you take at Marc Adams
> 
> - CL810


I took a mountain dulcimer class.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> Bulldog. How did you get that BS paring chisel in 1 1/2" width?
> 
> - woodcox


I emailed Dave and requested it. I've had very, very positive interactions with him.


----------



## ColonelTravis

I love David Barron's videos. "I made this box, and I'd like to show you how I did that." He always says that sort of thing.

For those with a LA jack - is it worth the investment for figured woods? I get by with a $10 scraper just fine. Or maybe I don't because I don't know what it's like using a LA bench plane.


----------



## gargey

FWIW I plan on getting a set of PMV-11 chisels for myself for xmas. I know, its the thought that counts…

I won't have a chance to test the feel/balance of any of the brands. That said, the next most important things are edge retention and ease of sharpening, and it seems like PMV-11 is the clear leader for those qualities.

BS are very pretty and nicely designed, but the Veritas PMV-11s don't look bad either.

Please let me know if there are any negatives I'm unaware of for the PMV-11s (other than cost).


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> FWIW I plan on getting a set of PMV-11 chisels for myself for xmas. I know, its the thought that counts…
> 
> I won t have a chance to test the feel/balance of any of the brands. That said, the next most important things are edge retention and ease of sharpening, and it seems like PMV-11 is the clear leader for those qualities.
> 
> BS are very pretty and nicely designed, but the Veritas PMV-11s don t look bad either.
> 
> Please let me know if there are any negatives I m unaware of for the PMV-11s (other than cost).
> 
> - gargey


You will love them. They are fantastic chisels.


----------



## jmartel

> I love David Barron s videos. "I made this box, and I d like to show you how I did that." He always says that sort of thing.
> 
> For those with a LA jack - is it worth the investment for figured woods? I get by with a $10 scraper just fine. Or maybe I don t because I don t know what it s like using a LA bench plane.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


If you already have normal bench planes, you can probably just get a high angle frog and swap it out on projects when you will need it.

I had a low angle smoother. I liked it for the projects I used it on, but I decided that I like a chipbreaker more after demoing some Lie-Nielsens at one of their hand tool events. So I sold it to a member on here and will be picking up a LN of some flavor once I get my shop back.


----------



## Mosquito

I have been wanting to try a high angle LN bench plane for a while, since getting my 164. Unfortunately, they haven't had a hand tool event here since before then either.


----------



## jmartel

I spent most of the time at the hand tool event playing with their No. 1 actually. Even though it has no practical use. Still want one.


----------



## Mosquito

the last hand tool event I went to I spent most of my time there being coaxed into trying new things at the "Mike Siemsen's School of Woodworking" bench lol That was probably 4 years ago, and the last hand tool event I remember being here in Minneapolis


----------



## DLK

> If you already have normal bench planes, you can probably just get a high angle frog and swap it out on projects when you will need it.
> 
> - jmartel


Can one buy a low angle frog?


----------



## Mosquito

low angle as in lower than "standard" 45? Not that I've ever seen. LN offers 45, 50, and 55 degree frogs as individual purchases


----------



## WillliamMSP

^^^ As does Veritas for their Custom Bench Plane range. They'll also do custom frog angles.


----------



## Mosquito

I didn't know that, that's pretty cool. A lot simpler frog than the LNs too


----------



## DLK

So my thought was of course can you some how put a low angle frog in to a Stanley 5 say and turn it into a low angle jack. Ooooo better Idea just make a wooden low angle razee! Crud… yet another project on my list. LOL


----------



## ADN

You should add:

http://www.lazarushandplane.com/

Only have a very early model, nothing like he produces now, here's a picture of mine….

Plus Mateo is an outstanding guy.


----------



## theoldfart

Hmm, He's back


----------



## ColonelTravis

Will the LN/Veritas frogs fit Stanleys? Or a Bedrock?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

LN maaay fit bedrocks?

Have to say though Travis, I've got both low angle planes, and high angle frogs. For figured woods, I go for the high angle frogs every time. I know some folks sharpen a LA plane with 50 degree bevels, and other such craziness…. but the high angle does it for me. ymmv.


----------



## bobasaurus

Red, is that one at 50 or 55? I have a LN no. 4 at 50 and it's a great tool.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Red, thanks, LN benchers are somewhat modeled after Bedrocks, that's right. I could try a frog with my #4 BR. Or maybe I ought to sell my multiples and get a LN 4. I love planes but man I've bought a few that I never use. Was at a flea market today and saw a lot of old ones, nothing worth buying, but every time I see so many like that I just have to stop and drool for a second, hoping there's a diamond in the rough.


----------



## WhoMe

All this chisel talk now has me wanting to ask a question. 
I have a set of modern Stanley sweethearts And I am doing a "test run" of a set of Sorby limited edition chisels. Neither are at the level of the ashleys, LNs or other high end chisels BUT how many sharpenings does it take to get to the "good" steel in the chisels?
I have read that many mid to high end chisels need a couple sharpenings to get rid of the factory grind steel that often gets compromised during factory sharpening. Including the factory marks. 
On the sorbys, I found polishing the first inch or so of the backs more time consuming and still left a couple left a couple machine marks. At the completion of sharpening, paring was fine but as soon as I did a cross grain cut with a mallet on trimming a dovetail, the edge rolled towards the back and the edge looked terribly fractured.
I remember my Stanley's did this too but not as bad. 
Is this common???


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ I've heard that theory about getting to the "good steel" on vintage chisels, and Narex. Can't say if the Ashley chisel get better, because I haven't taken them to the grinder much. I can say that it's not the case with LN or BS chisels. The steel is great at delivery.

Travis. I only have a HAF for my LN 4 1/2 (55 degree Allen), and I don't have a bedrock in that size.


----------



## duckmilk

I read something about that on another thread. The theory is, when the chisels get their final temper, the thin edge is tempered differently than the thicker portion of the blade. Makes sense fwiw, but not sure that is the definitive cause.


----------



## Mosquito

I've definitely gotten back from the factory edge a decent amount on several of my Ashley Iles chisels, and haven't noticed an improved edge retention yet, so I'm not sure that's an issue on mine, unless it's more than 1/8"-3/16" or so in, which seems like a lot


----------



## bobasaurus

The problem stems from the factory grinding the bevel to a thin edge before heat treatment. If heat treatment isn't done in an oxygen-free environment, then decarburization occurs on the thin edge while heating (since there isn't much thermal mass on the edge, it heats faster). This burns out carbon that should be making good tool steel, leaving a lesser steel on the edge. A better way to do this is leave the edge thick while heat treating, then carefully grind after to get down to a cutting edge (without overheating and ruining the temper). There are also coatings, wraps, and gas-flooded kilns that prevent the issue.

It's also possible that the thin cutting edge got overheated in a final grinding step by some careless worker, ruining the temper in a small area until sharpening gets back to the proper tempered area.


----------



## gargey

LN release a plow plane yet?


----------



## bobasaurus

Looks like veritas has a large spokeshave now:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=62800&cat=51&ap=1

I want one…


----------



## JADobson

They've had that for a couple of years now haven't they?


----------



## bobasaurus

Huh, I saw it in the new section. Maybe just the pm-v11 blade is new.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> LN release a plow plane yet?
> 
> - gargey


I wish


----------



## ColonelTravis

Red, I think I'm gonna join you in getting a LN 4 1/2 with a 55 degree frog. The LN site says their frogs won't fit any other planes, won't bother trying. When are the times you bring that one out? With figured stuff only? Or is it a common smoother for you?


----------



## bobasaurus

I think a No. 4 with a 55 deg frog might be better. The high angle will make it harder to push, so the narrower iron might help. I have the No. 4 with a 50 deg frog and the 4 1/2 with a 45 deg.


----------



## gargey

Just saw the sauer and steiner website for the first time. Wow. They look, like, twice as good as Quangsheng.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Haha, at least twice as nice.


----------



## Brit

.... and a heck of a lot more expensive. )

IMO - There comes a time when you have to ask yourself if you want to use a tool or make love to it.


----------



## gargey

he he, he he, "tool" 
-beavis


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> .... and a heck of a lot more expensive. )
> 
> IMO - There comes a time when you have to ask yourself if you want to use a tool or make love to it.
> 
> - Brit


I do both, why settle…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^LOL. Good stuff guys.

Colonel- I don't regret having the HAF on the 4-1/2. High angle frogs are a little harder tp push…..but I'm built like a brick SH!%house….so what do I care. Had to add to the jokes.

Nah, I generally run into tearout issues on bigger panels…or surfaces that the grain could change directions. The wide smoother is intended for wider smoothing surfaces, so I pretty much leave it in the 4 1/2. 
So, I guess that's the short answer. I use the 4 1/2 with a HAF on figured wood, AND any bigger surface where grain might alternate. The extra weight only helps imo.

If you get it from Craftsmanstudio.com, they ship for free, and include free wax. In case you don't have guns like me.



> Just saw the sauer and steiner website for the first time. Wow. They look, like, twice as good as Quangsheng.
> 
> - gargey


He's prolly my favorite plane maker/artist. Hence my tagline.


----------



## JayT

Never was too fond of infills until I saw Konrad Sauer's work. This is still what I consider to be the most beautiful plane I've ever seen


----------



## WillliamMSP

> If you get it from Craftsmanstudio.com, they ship for free, and include free wax.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Damn, I'm a sucker for free shipping - another seller bookmarked and another wishlist to be made.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Thanks Red. I guess the only thing I can sort of compare it to is using a #8. Some people think it's too large, but I like having that extra mass. Then again, I'm not shoving a blade at 55 degrees with my 8. But I think I'll still get your setup. If it ends up being horrible I can always return it. Wish I lived about 1500 miles closer to Maine so I could try it out.


----------



## gargey

Summary of text below: I think my sharpening process gives me the same results/effect as a HAF would.

Full text:

To get my plane blades to "ridiculously" sharp (hairs falling off my arm when they see the blade coming), my last stroke on my 10,000 stone (Ohishi) is a burr removal stroke on the flat side of the blade at a pretty high angle, probably 30 degrees or so.

Without that final 30 degree stroke I can cut hairs off with shaving-razor-like pressure, but not scare them off by being in the same room as the blade.

It's only a 1 or 2 inch stroke with light pressure, but it probably has the effect of creating a very very tiny back bevel. Tack that onto the action of the "ruler trick(1)," and I likely end up with a material back bevel effect.

I call it an effect because I don't know how to characterize the angle, since my "ruler trick(1)" back bevel is probably 3-5 degrees, and the final burr removal is a *much* higher angle, but *extremely* small, and I don't know how the wood reacts to that in practice.

Anyway, I guess my point is that I probably have (all) my planes effectively set up like HAF frog planes. Probably makes pushing the jointer a bit harder, but whatever. Sharp is my highest priority.

*I don't use a ruler, I free-hand my back lapping, and I end up with a higher angle than I would with a ruler.


----------



## bobasaurus

That's an interesting technique, gargey. I might give it a try.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

Just curious does anyone else use DMT Dia-sharp stones? I have a set from 325-8000 and for some reason I don't feel like I'm getting the edge I should be, it's sharp and I can shave hairs off my arm, but I don't know I just feel like it should be cutting my face just by looking at it.

I switched to them from water stones (be it the water stones I had weren't the best) because I hate constantly having to reflatten. I also use the MK 2 jig is that maybe the problem and is the LN better even for narrow blades?


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I use the MK 2 and the dia sharp and they work great. I more or less use the Paul Seller's method and don't have issues. There are more complicated methods and some prefer water stones but I found them messy and had to "setup" to sharpen instead of just get to it and get back to working wood. Could my tools be sharper? Probably, but they seem to be damn sharp to me between the three stones and a strop. No complaints and it's super easy and quick.


----------



## Mosquito

8000 grit diamond stones are a little different than 8000 grit water/oil stones. They work a bit more coarse than water/oil. I used to have a DiaSharp 8000 (Extra Extra Fine?), but never really got a "polish" with it. It worked well enough, and I got sharp edges, but never quite what I was looking for at the time. I ended up getting an 8000 grit waterstone to replace it, after using the Dup-Sharp plates to sharpen.

I've now sold my Duo-Sharps and switched to going through the EZE-LAP grits of Coarse, Medium, Fine, and Super-Fine. Though for normal maintenance sharpening I pretty much only use Super-Fine which is 1200 grit. I follow up after that with a leather strop with green compound, and have been getting good enough results for myself. Sometimes if I want to get that super refined edge I'll get out my 8000 grit water stone just to polish it up more, but not often. I've decided that I just don't need that level of polish anymore, when the strop seems to do fine for me. Plus having a strop is really useful, as you can hit the strop more easily in the middle of working than getting out the sharpening stones (or 'plates').


----------



## donwilwol

I agree the 8000 dmt isn't a good final stone. I switched to a hard Arkansas.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> I use the MK 2 and the dia sharp and they work great. I more or less use the Paul Seller s method and don t have issues. There are more complicated methods and some prefer water stones but I found them messy and had to "setup" to sharpen instead of just get to it and get back to working wood. Could my tools be sharper? Probably, but they seem to be damn sharp to me between the three stones and a strop. No complaints and it s super easy and quick.
> 
> - ki7hy


The only thing I dislike about the MK 2 is squaring up the blade and the setting guide is a pain because if its a beveled blade it casts a shadow down the side line and it constantly looks like its not squared up. I have to bust out the combo square and check it constantly so I'm not turning it it into a skew chisel.


----------



## DLK

I use these DMT Dia-sharp stones and finish with a leather strop with green compound.

For normal maintenance sharpening like Mos, I pretty much only use the Extra Fine which is 1200 grit and I strop.

I do have a Hard Arkansa so I may add that in to the mix. But the above gets them sharp enough for me.


----------



## CL810

Looks like we're all ending up pretty much at the same place. For me it's EZE-Laps to super fine then a Norton 8000 grit water stone (yellow) I purchased from TFWW. This set up took me to the next level of sharpening.


----------



## gargey

Luckily I'm not single so I don't have to explain missing patches of hair on my arm to anyone.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I use the MK 2 and the dia sharp and they work great. I more or less use the Paul Seller s method and don t have issues. There are more complicated methods and some prefer water stones but I found them messy and had to "setup" to sharpen instead of just get to it and get back to working wood. Could my tools be sharper? Probably, but they seem to be damn sharp to me between the three stones and a strop. No complaints and it s super easy and quick.
> 
> - ki7hy
> 
> The only thing I dislike about the MK 2 is squaring up the blade and the setting guide is a pain because if its a beveled blade it casts a shadow down the side line and it constantly looks like its not squared up. I have to bust out the combo square and check it constantly so I m not turning it it into a skew chisel.
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


Ya, I thought the setup was too slow on the MkII. That jig did teach me some things about sharpening though. Love the LN now. Speed.

I'm an oil stoner. Don't like the h2O type. I have a extra course dmt (really just for flattening/scuffing my oil stones), A med india stone, and a hard trans. Arkansas….and a big strop. No experience with the finer diamond stones…..but very often hear people find another option for their final stone.


----------



## jmartel

I use Sigma Power ceramic waterstones. 1000-6000-13000 grit and then it's ready to go. Sometimes I'll strop after but I'm not sure it makes a difference. Extremely sharp, and leaves the wood polished after planing. Only takes an extra minute or two to do the 13000 grit stone.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Ya, I thought the setup was too slow on the MkII. That jig did teach me some things about sharpening though. Love the LN now. Speed.
> 
> I m an oil stoner. Don t like the h2O type. I have a extra course dmt (really just for flattening/scuffing my oil stones), A med india stone, and a hard trans. Arkansas….and a big strop. No experience with the finer diamond stones…..but very often hear people find another option for their final stone.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Yeah fiddling with it to set the blade takes me about 3-4 mins and its getting old fast. I've been on the fence about getting the LN and I think I may be at my tipping point. As for stones I just want something quick and that I don't need to flatten after 2 blades and gives me the sharpest edge I can get.

I may have to consult The Schwarz as he usually puts some logic back into it when I overthink the hell out of something.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^heh. He'd tell you to sell the MKII and get an LN. Whatever will make you sharpen faster….thus more often.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

What jaws should I buy for it? I have Ray Isles mortise chisels and the Dragon Bench chisels from Toolsfromjapan will the mortise chisel jaws and chisel jaws fit both of them?


----------



## Barbancourt

Does anyone have a preference for a particular brand of Forstner bits. Have you noticed any differences in quality/longevity between brands?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nick- The issued jaws will fit about any bevel edge chisel. You'd have to get the mortise chisel jaws if you wanted to use the guide on those (I just free hand mortise). The only extra set I have is the long jaws for spokeshaves….and they work great.

Google photo gave me one of those flashbacks of today. I guess two year ago today is when my OCD went into overdrive, and I made cocobolo totes and knobs for my LN planes.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Does anyone have a preference for a particular brand of Forstner bits. Have you noticed any differences in quality/longevity between brands?
> 
> - Barbancourt


I use Wood Owl auger bits and Freud Forstner bits, the good ones not the ones from Home Cheapo.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Nick- The issued jaws will fit about any bevel edge chisel. You d have to get the mortise chisel jaws if you wanted to use the guide on those (I just free hand mortise). The only extra set I have is the long jaws for spokeshaves….and they work great.
> 
> Google photo gave me one of those flashbacks of today. I guess two year ago today is when my OCD went into overdrive, and I made cocobolo totes and knobs for my LN planes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Yeah LN just emailed me back the Ray Isles don't work with it because they have a slight taper (which is fine I've been free handing them this whole time anyway), as for the bench chisels I have to check the thickness and see if they have any taper either, but I don't believe they do.

Red - Nice job on the handles those are friggin beautiful, I want to make some in African Blackwood, ever since I got my awl and marking knife from Blue Spruce in that I can't get over how nice it looks.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks man. Making those handles was the last blog I posted on LJs if you're interested.

http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/43841


----------



## summerfi

> Does anyone have a preference for a particular brand of Forstner bits. Have you noticed any differences in quality/longevity between brands?
> 
> - Barbancourt


I've bought a couple of Freud's recently as well and am very pleased with them. Much better than my old bits.


----------



## CL810

Nick and Bob, what's the name of the Freud bits you like? Those made in Austria don't say anything about what kind of steel is used.


----------



## summerfi

I got mine from Amazon. They are like the one in this link. I don't know if they have a name or not. They have a serrated edge, which I like.

https://www.amazon.com/Freud-PB-0025-16-Inch-Precision-Forester/dp/B00AHVTNKA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1481313886&sr=8-1&keywords=freud+forstner+bit+7%2F16


----------



## CL810

Yep, those are the Precision Shear bits. It says hardened steel in that link. I'm going to try one. Man, I love Amazon Prime.


----------



## nakmuay

I don't suppose any of you fine gent would know the equivalent wet and dry grade to a 8000 water stone would you? I got a bunch of p1200 that was getting thrown out at work. Up until now I've been using a king 1000, then down to a 4000 and working with that


----------



## JayT

> I don t suppose any of you fine gent would know the equivalent wet and dry grade to a 8000 water stone would you? I got a bunch of p1200 that was getting thrown out at work. Up until now I ve been using a king 1000, then down to a 4000 and working with that
> 
> - nakmuay


I consider 2000 grit sandpaper to be fairly similar to an 8000 water stone and 1500 grit to be close to a 6000 water stone, so the 1200 grit will probably produce similar results to your 4000.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The Freuds are a step up from most. Whiteside actually makes some. Made in 'merica.

They're spendy, but they look wicked.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Thanks man. Making those handles was the last blog I posted on LJs if you re interested.
> 
> http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/43841
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Great, now I have to buy another new rasp, speaking of rasps whats the consensus on them Auriou or Gramercy?


----------



## gargey

Aurious is better than all the other brands of rasp I've ever tried (none).


----------



## theoldfart

Aurious are what I have, they leave a clean finish and cut quite fast. The modlers rasp at 13 grain is fantastic.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Aurious is better than all the other brands of rasp I ve ever tried (none).
> 
> - gargey


Ha, that's the tough part. I know Todd has some Gramercy's, but rarely will people buy both to compare.

That Gramarcy handle makers rasp is pretty slick for its intended task. That's the only hand stiched rasp I own. Thought about asking for some for Xmas, but I opted for carving tools.


----------



## ToddJB

I really really like my Gramarcy rasps, but yeah, my only comparison are ones I've found in junk boxes at yard sales. And they don't get tons and tons of work - but are indispensable when the need is there.

I know Terry has stated he's worn out his Gramacy handle maker - I am not sure if he has replaced it with another brand or not. Brit, I believe, has the Liogier.

Edit: I will say that the finish on the handles look like they were applied with a warmed over turd - but something that can be easily remedied.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Edit: I will say that the finish on the handles look like they were applied with a warmed over turd - but something that can be easily remedied.
> 
> - ToddJB


That's the best description I've heard in awhile, thank you I actually laughed outloud.


----------



## terryR

Yep, Gramercy rasps are fine, but short lived in my shop.
Auriou has lovely walnut handles, and awesome rasps.
Liogier has only made money off me twice, but their Sappire line is beautiful.
Iwasaki files are a puzzle to me. So sharp and agressive I cannot control the two I have.

FWIW, neither Auriou nor Liogier rasps have dulled noticeably for me. And they are a joy to use. Fast stock removal, and not much to clean up afterwards.


----------



## theoldfart

"FWIW, neither Auriou nor Liogier rasps have dulled noticeably for me. And they are a joy to use. Fast stock removal, and not much to clean up afterwards" The same for me though I've only had my Auriou rasps for a few months.

First of the three repair tenons done









Handy to have the worlds smallest shoot plane









Aw nuts, posted to the wrong forum.


----------



## nakmuay

> I consider 2000 grit sandpaper to be fairly similar to an 8000 water stone and 1500 grit to be close to a 6000 water stone, so the 1200 grit will probably produce similar results to your 4000.
> 
> - JayT


Thanks JT, I couldn't find that info anywhere. Guess it's a trip to Lee Valley for king 8000 then!


----------



## nakmuay

This is a USA made Stanley 5 and 3 I'm refurbishing. Lee Valley had bag full of their back saw handles knobs that were slightly miss-coloured for $5. They've been kicking around my shop for months, until I decided to do up these planes. I flipped them upside down, modified them a little and bolted them all on. The look is…. an acquired taste but they are surprisingly comfy.


----------



## jmartel

> Great, now I have to buy another new rasp, speaking of rasps whats the consensus on them Auriou or Gramercy?
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


Won't help you with making handles, but for normal rasp work, I really like the Iwasaki Carving files. Relatively cheap at $30ish each, cut extremely quickly, and the finish is amazing if you go with the grain. I wouldn't get any coarser than a fine cut, though. The fine cuts more than fast enough.


----------



## summerfi

Man, new quality rasps are expensive. I can't bring myself to pay the price. I would like to try one of the Iwasaki files though.

I'm fortunate to have inherited a lot of rasps from my dad, most of them vintage USA made. Here is my rasp drawer. You can see how I protect the better ones from dulling with cardboard sheaths.










These are my go to rasps for making saw handles. I use them all on most handles. The bottom one is not a rasp, it's a file for Japanese saws. It's thin diamond shaped profile is excellent for finishing off lamb's tongues. Top to bottom these are:
1. German made unknown brand (logo is horse jumping through hoop)
2. Atkins (same as the saw maker)
3. Atkins
4. Heller Nucut
5. Nicholson
6. unknown
7. Nicholson
So 5 of the 7 are USA made.


----------



## CL810

Regarding price, I purchased a Grobet Vallorbe swiss made rasp from LV a while back. LV no longer sells them but they can be had on Amazon. Pricier than Nicholson but less than Liogier and Auriou. It seems fine but I cannot vouch for durability because I just have not used it enough. Here is Robert Lang's review.

Forgive us Red for straying from North American made tools.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Bob. Tis a shame there aren't any North-American options out there. They're labor intensive. Mostly European options.



> Yep, Gramercy rasps are fine, but short lived in my shop.
> - terryR


Someone else told me that too Terry. The stainless steel of the Gramercy is attractive. Wonder if it weakens the teeth at all. Nice of you and Todd to be the guinea pics….lol.

I'm sure the Gramercy are solid tools. Like the chisel and plane steel. Kinda splittin hairs when you get to the high end tools. Other factors (preference, price, availablity). For example, I think pmv11 is sweet, but I have no intention of replacing my LN planes just because of that blade. All the tools we're talking about are better than 99% of the "tool-shaped objects" imported every day.

Since there are no N. American hand-stiched options, here's another option (Portugal), and German Machine stiched. They're more affordable, and I've heard decent things about them:

http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/Rasps-Wood-Files/products/186/

Now I'll get back to the aforementioned Panel Slayer….


----------



## CL810

For the hand cut made in Portugal use this link.

Schwarz put out a video today about their thinking in regards to Crucible Tools holdfast. Sounded defensive?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Andy, meant to have a link showing all their rasps.

I haven't had the time to follow my fav blogs….Lost Art Press being one of them. Guess I missed a lot! Schwarz is partnering in a tool company ehh? Kinda contradictory, but actually makes sense too. Bet they make some nice stuff.


----------



## bobasaurus

I've been tempted to get some Corradi rasps just to see how they do:

http://www.corradishop.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=26

Not an American tool, though. I should try making one someday.


----------



## theoldfart

Well I'm about to start a campaign for the LN 51. I've convinced myself it's a good move but that was the easy part! 

posted this over in HPOD, no reaction! Lets see what happens here.


----------



## ColonelTravis

I fully approve of your 51 campaign. If you want to start one for me, you also have my blessing.


----------



## DanKrager

Do you mean "crowd funding", Kev? LAWL.

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dang Allen, never heard of Corradi. CNC makes sense to mimick the hand stiching. And and a cabinet makers rasp for around $40 is sweet….. unless I'm reading the shipping/duites page wrong. The shipping could be more than the rasp??

Kevin, just watch the vid that made up the first post on this thread….and let it push you over the top


----------



## summerfi

I like the looks of those Corradi's but man, the shipping is crazy. Maybe we could put together a group order or something?


----------



## bobasaurus

Holy crap, didn't see the shipping cost. They need a US distributor.


----------



## bobasaurus

Looks like woodcraft carries their rifflers:

http://www.woodcraft.com/category/HT112-01/files-rasps/corradi.aspx

I haven't found anyone who carries their gold series rasps in the US though.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Wow. If the rifflers are anywhere near Arriou, they're a 1/3 of the prices from woodcraft.



> I like the looks of those Corradi s but man, the shipping is crazy. Maybe we could put together a group order or something?
> 
> - summerfi


I was thinking the same thing Bob. The Euro and dollar a pretty even now. Even at $35 for the rasp and $35 shipping, your still below the hand-stiched prices. But IF you bundled up some shipping??


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, you can add 6 or 7 rasps to your cart before the shipping starts going up. Temptation looms this Sunday morning…...

edit: decent review on them. http://www.rpwoodwork.com/blog/2016/01/30/corradi-rasps/


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well, bummer. Got home from my son's bball games and Corradi took the sale down that was through today. Guess they're going on Italy time. Another downside to dealing overseas. I was going to make a pretty big order too.

I saw on their instagram that they had free shipping all summer for US orders over $250. I'm a bit miffed to pull the trigger now.


----------



## JADobson

Give them a call or an email. You never know, they might just give you the sale price anyway.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^We thinks alike James. Emailed them. If not, maybe it's a sign to wait. I'll keep you guys posted.

I was kinda excited because they seem like a great option for someone like me. I don't do a ton of curved work…but I'd like to some more. However, I don't know if I'll every do enough with rasps to justify big bucks like I can with hand planes. I dunno.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Red, good luck with the Italians. Very interested in a report on those rasps. I own 2 Aurious and they are fantastic. I wasn't sure if I would get much use from them initially but now I can't see myself ever without rasps again. Obviously, depends on the work you do but I find more uses for them as time goes on.

I have gone back and forth on the LN 4 1/2 with the 55 degree frog or the LN 62. After further review, I think the 62 is better for me at this point and I wanted to post the reasons here and see if anyone thinks I'm off base.

My hang-ups now are at the beginning stages of final dimensions, which I do all by hand. This Highland WW video review of the 62 impressed me, and what he's doing is what I've tried to do with normal bench planes and failed at it. This video has, so far, been the biggest selling point for me for the 62. Also saw a Garret Hack video where he effortlessly planed the end of a panel door, which has end grain, long grain, end grain with a 62. I like that.

I like that you can close the mouth of the 62 extremely tight. 
I like that a 62 can be a shooter. (I swear I'm gonna build JayT's shooter, I've just had other projects I needed to get done first.) 
I like that you can use a toothed blade, this seems to be extremely beneficial for someone like me who does final dimensioning all by hand. Anyone use a toothed blade?

On the other hand, Paul Sellers has said that when "a bevel-up plane begins to tear out the grain it can and indeed does rip the grain out at the very root mercilessly and not rarely but commonly." This concerns me, since tear-out is what I'm trying to avoid in the first place.

Basically, the 4 1/2 seems perfect for certain smoothing jobs. I would love to own one. But when I thought about it more, smoothing hasn't been the trouble for me, it's the steps leading to it.

Anyone with a 62 regret buying it?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

DonW is the only guy I've heard who didn't like the LN 62, but he has a strong vintage bias;-) If I had to pick a few planes to keep, the 62 would be one of them. It kicks butt on any end grain, and any edge planing. Doesn't do great on figured for me, but as I mentioned, I don't do all the funky sharpening.

Eventually, you will want them both as a hand tooler. The 62 might make sense for the first one. At $245 or whatever for the LN, I think it's the best bang for the buck for a hand plane out there.

Some end grain buddah for ya toast.


----------



## ColonelTravis

I never knew Don became displeased of his! 
Thanks, Red. I'm sold on both planes, but it seems like the 62 can meet more needs for me now.


----------



## JADobson

> On the other hand, Paul Sellers has said that when "a bevel-up plane begins to tear out the grain it can and indeed does rip the grain out at the very root mercilessly and not rarely but commonly." This concerns me, since tear-out is what I m trying to avoid in the first place.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


I saw that quotation by Sellers too just before I got the LV LAJ. So far (a couple of months) I haven't noticed tear out being any more of a problem than it was with my 5 1/2. Actually less of a problem with the adjustable mouth. However, I recently finished a project that used a highly figured board and I could not plane it without getting massive tear out. I haven't tried the toothed blade or the higher angled blades either though.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Thanks, James. Yeah, I've got some wood that only a scraper and/or RO sander can handle properly, I understand the limitations of hand planes. It's that word "commonly" that Sellers used that had me scratching my head. I hadn't seen that criticism of the 62 anywhere else.

I've had plenty of unmerciful tear-out with a regular plane!


----------



## JADobson

In my experience Sellers is just wrong on this point. I'd say go for the 62.


----------



## bobasaurus

Well, if you try to smooth some gnarly wood with the stock 37 deg cutting angle you're likely to get bad tearout. But it's really easy to hone a steeper bevel on there and end up with a 60 deg or more cutting angle for good smoothing.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

It might not have the close tolerances of a Lie Neilsen, but I think it is American made and it can accomidate many different irons.


----------



## donwilwol

I don't really dislike the LN #62. Its a well made plane and it works well. I just don't see the draw to the #62 unless you're doing a lot of end grain work.

I bought it based on the hype of a low angle plane. It's a good plane, but I'd rather have a high angle.

Again, if you have a use for it, it's a good plane.


----------



## WillliamMSP

There's at least one other LJer that bought an LAJ, wasn't terribly thrilled and then went to more conventional bench planes with an HAF or two thrown in for good measure. Can't recall who it was, though, or in what capacity they were unsatisfied with it.

A Veritas LAJ is certainly on my list and for the same reasons that a LN 62 is on CT's list. I'll be interested to hear feedback.


----------



## gargey

I've found that the LN 62 excels at 2 things:
1) End grain.
2) Across the grain flattening (rough work)

My LN 4 1/2 smoother and LN 7 are definitely superior for jointing and smoothing. As others stated, LN 62 has more tearout risk.

I also alternated between the LN 62 and the LN No 7 on my shooting board for quite a while; the LN 7 is generally superior, unless you have an extremely hard wood (hard maple+).

So if you're just getting started, I'd recommend a "traditional" plane first.


----------



## gargey

This struck me as a foolish/terrible career move when he announced it. For so many reasons. Bromance with Raney clouded his judgement I guess.



> Schwarz put out a video today about their thinking in regards to Crucible Tools holdfast. Sounded defensive?
> 
> - CL810


----------



## JADobson

I don't know, I'd like to see Crucible do well but with holdfasts 4-5 times the price of the grammercy ones, even if they are better (are they 4-5 times better?) its going to be a tough sell. The dividers looks beautiful but at that price I can't justify them.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> This struck my as a foolish/terrible career move when he announced it.
> 
> Schwarz put out a video today about their thinking in regards to Crucible Tools holdfast. Sounded defensive?
> 
> - CL810
> 
> - gargey


What strikes you as a terrible move? I watched the whole thing and it didn't sound defensive, it sounded like him explaining things to the trolls.

Now mind you I'm a big Schwarz fan, so maybe I'm biased in my opinion.


----------



## WillliamMSP

> What strikes you as a terrible move? I watched the whole thing and it didn t sound defensive, it sounded like him explaining things to the trolls.
> 
> Now mind you I m a big Schwarz fan, so maybe I m biased in my opinion.
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


Ditto, though I'd conceded that the line between explaining and being defensive is a blurry one.

I hadn't preciously looked at these close enough to realize that they wouldn't fit in a 3/4" doghole. That probably takes it out of the running for me.


----------



## Brit

I guess the prices are no worse than Bridge City or some of the high end plane makers. There will always be cheaper tools that will do the job. They just won't look as pretty. I won't be buying anything personally, but if it floats your boat then go for it.


----------



## gargey

I'm a fan of much of his writing. He brings a lot of content to woodworkers, and makes a lot of things accessible that wouldn't otherwise be so.

I think it was a bad idea because:
-It is a distraction. He is a writer. Now he's a toolmaker/salesman too (that's what that post is).
-It reduces the field of things which he can write about; it shrinks his addressable market. He either 1) won't be able to write about a field of things that he had a lot of credibility writing about: tools (his stated course of action), or 2) will write about them, but with the potential for less credibility/bias.
-Businesswise, he also goes from a very "asset light" model with LAP to one that is the opposite with Crucible.

I know nothing about the business structure, economics, profitability. He's arguably reached the pinnacle of woodworking writing, makes more sense to protect and grow that.



> What strikes you as a terrible move?
> - UpstateNYdude


----------



## theoldfart

gargey is spot on. He is now in competition with the very people he was suposed to be advocating for, small American manufactures. These manufacturers have developed the market and took the risks inherent with those endeavors. I bought my holdfasts from Black Bear Forge rather than consider Crucible. Black Bear was one of Schwarz's favored craftsman.


----------



## BillWhite

I'm the feller who had his hold fasts made by blacksmiths. Paid $15.00 for the first, and $20.00 for the second. 5/8" shaft with a smooth pad. I freaked when I saw the casting rib on the Schwarz pad.
Mine will hold anything I've ever thrown at them, so I guess that I'm one who won't be buying those from Schwarz.
Not being a naysayer, but his are just butt ugly.
Bill


----------



## JayT

Finally watched parts of the video.

I think the biggest problem with Crucible is the pricing structure. He tries to justify the "months of engineering" on the holdfasts to get them right, but that is true of any new product. I find it hard to believe that the Gramercy holdfasts didn't take a similar amount of engineering, testing, trial and error, but the prices are radically different. The question becomes why.

In any new product, the manufacturer has to take into account how many units they are going to have to sell to recoup the R&D and price accordingly. Seems to me that Crucible is trying to recoup those costs too quickly and with too few units, which drives up the price. They don't have a full line of tools to be able to subsidize the development of new ones. Both of those are causing the pricing to be out of the range of many of their target market.

If Schwarz wants to use his well-earned reputation as a woodworking writer to sell tools, that's on him. The video struck me as an attempt to justify the pricing and yes, just a bit defensive.

If they are getting enough comments & objections about the prices of the tools to justify making a video about it, maybe they need to step back and take a fresh look to see if their business plan is realistic. If they believe it is, go for it, but don't expect me to buy tools just because Schwarz pushes them.



> I guess the prices are no worse than Bridge City or some of the high end plane makers. There will always be cheaper tools that will do the job.
> 
> - Brit


That's kind of the problem, to me. Crucible isn't even close to being on the level of a number of other "boutique" makers. Their holdfasts are very utilitarian. The inexpensive Gramercy ones work great for utility and if I want a better looking tool, then the ones from Black Bear Forge are nicer and still much lower priced than Crucible.

Time will tell if their business model works, but unless there are changes, it won't be because I buy anything from them. There are other good vendors/manufacturers to choose from with better products and pricing.

The Crucible connection also puts Schwarz in a bind as a writer. Suppose Gramercy or Veritas or LN or someone else came out with a new holdfast. There is no way he can do an unbiased review. Any new tool Crucible comes out with will have the same issue. It might be the best thing ever, but if he says so, it's self-promotion, not an independent review. If he wants to become a tool manufacturer and salesman, so be it, but he's building a box around his writing that will be difficult, if not impossible, to escape from. At least the box should have good joinery.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> I m a fan of much of his writing. He brings a lot of content to woodworkers, and makes a lot of things accessible that wouldn t otherwise be so.
> 
> I think it was a bad idea because:
> -It is a distraction. He is a writer. Now he s a toolmaker/salesman too (that s what that post is).
> -It reduces the field of things which he can write about; it shrinks his addressable market. He either 1) won t be able to write about a field of things that he had a lot of credibility writing about: tools (his stated course of action), or 2) will write about them, but with the potential for less credibility/bias.
> -Businesswise, he also goes from a very "asset light" model with LAP to one that is the opposite with Crucible.
> 
> I know nothing about the business structure, economics, profitability. He s arguably reached the pinnacle of woodworking writing, makes more sense to protect and grow that.
> 
> What strikes you as a terrible move?
> - UpstateNYdude
> 
> - gargey


I think he juggles what's on his plate pretty well, if that were the case then LAP would be a giant distraction for him. Blogging is more of an online journal of thoughts and opinions, his books were more of a biography of his life and what shaped his style of woodworking and tool usage.

I think perhaps he joined Crucible to make tools that he wanted to use and keep another toolmaker in America, he seems passionate about it and seems to like tools, so wouldn't it only make sense that he designs and makes tools that aren't the run of the mill.

I may be off base, but I hardly see this as effecting his integrity as a woodworking writer/tool expert. It won't stop me from listening to or buying his books, I personally find his attitude towards woodworking and tools refreshing against all the snooze fest drivel that's out there.

I don't know, whatever, everyone has a different opinion I guess, if he sinks like a stone for it I guess he'll either stop or we'll no longer get any good info from him. I for one will be extremely bummed if the later comes to fruition.


----------



## Mosquito

I agree with much of the above re: Schwarz. I don't like the move, but it's obviously his choice, so whatever.


----------



## bobasaurus

The whole idea of a cast holdfast seems crazy to me, especially for that price. I would much rather have a forged (black bear) or even bent (gramercy), then have an inflexible and possibly brittle cast iron lump. There's a reason that good striking tools aren't made from cast iron. And 1" is a bizarre choice since most everyone uses 3/4" as the standard dog hole.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> The whole idea of a cast holdfast seems crazy to me, especially for that price. I would much rather have a forged (black bear) or even bent (gramercy), then have an inflexible and possibly brittle cast iron lump. There s a reason that good striking tools aren t made from cast iron. And 1" is a bizarre choice since most everyone uses 3/4" as the standard dog hole.
> 
> - bobasaurus


This is why the video was made, he stated it's not cast iron it's ductile iron, different properties and different strengths. That's what gave the LN planes the ability to be dropped and not crack like their Stanley brethren.


----------



## bobasaurus

> The whole idea of a cast holdfast seems crazy to me, especially for that price. I would much rather have a forged (black bear) or even bent (gramercy), then have an inflexible and possibly brittle cast iron lump. There s a reason that good striking tools aren t made from cast iron. And 1" is a bizarre choice since most everyone uses 3/4" as the standard dog hole.
> 
> - bobasaurus
> 
> This is why the video was made, he stated it s not cast iron it s ductile iron, different properties and different strengths. That s why LN planes can be dropped and won t crack.
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


Hmm, I need to give it a watch before judging I guess. But just because a plane can be dropped once or twice in its lifetime and not crack doesn't mean it's meant to be whacked sideways with a mallet constantly during use (and then hold up under that tension). I can't see any cast iron being better than proper steel as a tool to be struck.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Man those holdfasts are HUGE! Didn't know they would be that size. I would actually prefer that size, I'm sure they're quality, but I'm not buying one for $135 each.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Don, thanks for your 62 update. End grain work is a problem I have no good solution for in my shop yet.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Hmm, I need to give it a watch before judging I guess. But just because a plane can be dropped once or twice in its lifetime and not crack doesn t mean it s meant to be whacked sideways with a mallet constantly during use (and then hold up under that tension). I can t see any cast iron being better than proper steel as a tool to be struck.
> 
> - bobasaurus


The casting on a plane is much thinner than 1" thick, I have no idea why they didn't use cast steel myself, but maybe there trying to keep it original or the cost was higher? After all the one they found in France was from the 1800s so it made it this far.

I'll stick with Black Bear myself…


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, the Gramercy ones work just fine for me. I don't mind the look of them and they work perfectly. $35 for a pair is way better than $135 each.


----------



## Mosquito

+1 on the Gramercy's for me to. I wouldn't mind more "authentic" blacksmith forged ones, but for $35 they do what I want effectively.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

All good thoughts. I too was really surprised by Schwarz's move to toolmaking. He made a HUGE effort to stay unbiased (I've seen him turn down the LN guys just for offering a beer). But, maybe he got tired of waiting for others to make the tools he wanted….and the tools he thought woodworkers needed.

re: defensive video. I give him a pass for that. I….no we can't imagine the amount trolls and nasty emails a guy in the limelight faces. I couldn't do it.


----------



## Mosquito

yeah, the tone can come across as defensive, but I think he was just answering many of the genuine questions of those who may be doubting it in a courteous fashion.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Btw, Corradi said they'd give me the discount. Got several of their rasps coming. Let you guys know.

And, paypal is a little suspect on their dollar to euro conversion rate.


----------



## ToddJB

I'm not very emotionally in tune, but I didn't find it defensive - just an explanation/education of the tool itself. Perhaps the holdfasts and dividers are him picking the low hanging fruit of him dipping his toe in the waters of being a tool designer. The dude's used a lot of tools; he gets what makes some work better than others. That knowledge should be welcomed in tool making - especially in our current culture.

If he starts making innovative and exceptional quality tools, we can only hope that will trickle down to the manufacturing market most of use can afford/justify.


----------



## bobasaurus

That's sweet, Red. Please update us with how they work. They wrote me back saying there are no US distributors of their gold rasps, so you probably got the best deal available.


----------



## ToddJB

Which ones did you get, Rojo?


----------



## JADobson

> Btw, Corradi said they d give me the discount. Got several of their rasps coming. Let you guys know.
> 
> And, paypal is a little suspect on their dollar to euro conversion rate.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Its good to see good customer service like that. Looking forward to your thoughts on them.

I only have one rasp, this hand cut one from LV. Works well enough for me but I have nothing to compare it to. Of course the first thing you have to do when you get it is to burn the handle and make a new one:


----------



## ColonelTravis

> The dude s used a lot of tools; he gets what makes some work better than others. That knowledge should be welcomed in tool making - especially in our current culture.
> 
> If he starts making innovative and exceptional quality tools, we can only hope that will trickle down to the manufacturing market most of use can afford/justify.
> 
> - ToddJB


Agree. Wish someone would make a top-notch saw file. At this point I might drop $135 for a 5-6" double extra slim. Or $5. Yeah $5 sounds better.

Red - congrats, hope they work out for you.


----------



## JayT

> Agree. Wish someone would make a top-notch saw file. At this point I might drop $135 for a 5-6" double extra slim. Or $5. Yeah $5 sounds better.
> 
> Red - congrats, hope they work out for you.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Yeah, I'll be interested to hear how the Corradi rasps work, as well. I would like to buy some more to have a decent assortment and was thinking Iwasaki, but don't like that you would have to have a set of flat and half round both going that route.

Corradi does have saw files for pretty cheap, wonder what the quality is like. If I end up ordering some rasps from them, I'll have to throw on some saw files to compare to the Nicholsons I've been using. You know, the cheap hardware store ones that last two or three sharpenings, if you're lucky.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ I orders some saw files for the saw Mozart (BobSummerfi) so we'll see what he thinks down the road.

Here's what I ordered: 








-

There's a guy down the street with Auriou's, so I will be able to compare. Guess we gotta keep dealing with the Europeeeno's til Schwarz starts making some rasps;-P


----------



## ToddJB

Nice - even went with two cuts of the 10"er.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Extra halfround 6" is for Bob…nosy Nelly

Better yet maybe Schwarz will get his daughters hand-stitching rasps for the rest of us LOL


----------



## bobasaurus

That should be a great set of rasps, I'll bet they perform great. I'm curious how they do with loading and smoothly starting cuts without jumping (like cheap rasps can do).


----------



## ToddJB

Allen, if they get the Rojo seal of approval we'll have to combine an order and use hand delivery as an excuse to do shop visits. I might know some other Coloradans that would be up for ordering some too.


----------



## summerfi

I ordered an Iwasaki this morning too, so when they get here I'll be able to give a comparative report.


----------



## ColonelTravis

At first I thought you paid $150 and $250 per rasp - dropped $1,000 like it was nuthin!


----------



## summerfi

He did, he just doesn't know it yet. LOL


----------



## ColonelTravis

Haha. Red opening next month's credit card bill.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Lawlz. My paypal acct did take a hit.

It wasn't an impulse buy as it might seem. I've been eyeing some rasps for awhile. I nearly bought the Portuguese rasps from thetraditionalwoodworker.com a couple times. The Corradi's just seem the ticket for me. We shall see.

Of couse I'm goofin about Sshwarz making rasps…but the Corradi setup(CNC to imitate Handstiched) does make me think a US toolmaker could pull these off. That is, use technology to get around the high labor costs. Some purists might ask themselves if I'm cheating the Hand-stitcher tradesman out there.

Tools, lumber, consumerism…will make a guy question his ideals. I dunno. I have no issue with LN and LV using CNC to bust out tools. I do have a problem with sweat shops and exploitation I do my best to not encourage either.

I wander what ol Schwarz would say about "months and months" developing a CNC rasp?


----------



## AgentTwitch

Red, we eagerly anticipate your review. I love my Auriou rasps and appreciate the Gramercy handle makers rasp for the little that I use it when the model makers rasp is too long. One day I will buy some rifflers, maybe from corradi if they review well. Auriou will earn my money on the rifflers if not. They, like all good tools, are worth the money. I usually am disappointed with the competition's products when I try to save some money.


----------



## theoldfart

A package arrived today









Nice box in it









And it fits


----------



## bobasaurus

Oh dang, that arrived fast! Is it amazing to use? Have you hit anything you couldn't shoot with it?


----------



## theoldfart

Allen, two days! 
Just about effortless and I haven't even honed it yet.
I've only tested it on cherry. Once I've honed it it will get a thorough workout.

I need to make a few changes to my chute board. UHMW on the track and a side piece to keep it against the fence and limit tilting it.


----------



## Mosquito

+1 on the side piece. I added one when I made my new shooting board (post LV Shooter), and it's quite nice to have. It makes it quite a bit easier to use. Also a +1 on the UHMW tape on the track. I bought a roll of it for that reason too. Congrats Kev!


----------



## AgentTwitch

Nice score!


----------



## ColonelTravis




----------



## theoldfart

just don't drool on mine!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

She's a beaut Kev. She's a reeaalll beaut!!

FedEx says rasps will be here tomorrow. That's two days….from Italy. Totally worth the $40 shipping;-P
I might suggest they go with a cheaper, albeit slower shipping option to garner more business.


----------



## CL810

Kev, that's a fine looking tool! You might pm Terry with the instructions for opening the box. ;-)


----------



## gargey

Consider yourself lucky if you're not hit with customs charges.



> She s a beaut Kev. She s a reeaalll beaut!!
> 
> FedEx says rasps will be here tomorrow. That s two days….from Italy. Totally worth the $40 shipping;-P
> I might suggest they go with a cheaper, albeit slower shipping option to garner more business.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


----------



## AgentTwitch

Finally! My Lie-Nielsen plow plane arrived!










(Ok, fine, I dont have the yet-to-be-released plow plane, but new tool posts like Kevin and Red's make me jealous)


----------



## Mosquito

Dang it Norm! I just got a bonus too lol I was hopeful


----------



## gargey

TMI



> Dang it Norm! I just got a boner too lol I was hopeful
> 
> - Mosquito


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Finally! My Lie-Nielsen plow plane arrived!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Ok, fine, I dont have the yet-to-be-released plow plane, but new tool posts like Kevin and Red s make me jealous)
> 
> - AgentTwitch


 You sir…are a bum…got my hopes up that I'd be getting a phone call for ordering soon.


----------



## CL810

Norm, that was flat out mean.


----------



## WillliamMSP

I dare not even dream of an LN plow, but my heart still skipped a beat when I saw the pic. Cruel.

Anywho, the fine customer service reps at Lee Valley succumbed to my charms and let me squeeze in an order for a not-quite-in-stock LAJ on the free shipping offer. They're supposed to be available on the 19th at which time it and a PM-V11 chisel will be on the way.

I give myself some rather thoughful Christmas gifts.


----------



## AgentTwitch

You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch.

Sorry guys, I thought it was a good idea at the time…


----------



## ADN

Making a new shooting board for my LN 51, it's one of he best planes I've ever used, but probably would not have purchased it if I were not disabled.

Will posts some pictures soonest,

Andy


----------



## jmartel

I need to make a shooting board for my LV Shooter. I bought it and never got to use it before I had to pack up my shop. But, in one week I'll officially be a homeowner again and can get back to working on stuff.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well, got a box from Italy today. FedEx lived up to their two days….impressive.

gargey- the Carrodi site says their shipping includes duties or whatever. Not sure how that works.










I worked a really long day, and my shop is negative degrees, hope to tinker with them by this weekend. I did open the boxes, and they look nice…


----------



## ColonelTravis

Dang Red, fast. 
OK the plow is fake but what the heck is it from?


----------



## AgentTwitch

The plow is very real. This is the prototype as pictured from a Lie-Nielsen woodworking show.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Dang Red, fast.
> OK the plow is fake but what the heck is it from?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Yeah that's the prototype they've been working from for like the last 4-5 years, doesn't appear to change anytime I see a pic of it, so not sure what the hold up is.


----------



## summerfi

I got my Iwasaki file/rasp today too. It's 8" in the extreme-fine cut, and it feels really sharp. I'm anxious to try it out. Notice it is a curved piece of steel with teeth only on one side.


----------



## ADN

About 80 % finished with my new LN 51 shooting board for end grain shooting, and about 40% completed with my new long grain shooting board.

Making the long grain board a little over 4 ft long, it's in the picture, and will add a side support for the LN 51, much like my old shooting board.

Also included pictures of my old SB, and yes the LN 51 will work with the old board, but hey new plane deserves a new SB….been wanting a long grain board for some time, so again, just for the 51 ;-)





































Regards,
Andy


----------



## TheFridge

Somehow I talked my boss into getting me a shelix head for my dw735 and a LN51 for Christmas this year. Pretty sure I'm going to owe him some sexual favors but hey? It's a 51. And it'll be free.

Colonel, I have a LN 4-1/2 w 55 deg frog as well. When using it and a Stanley side by side, I noticed the weight of the LN more than the HA. I've planed amboyna burl with no noticeable tearout just to see. Reversing grain hasn't been a problem for me. The worst I've found is the areas where the grain reversed might need a scraping but no tearout.

I'm still not sold on a 62 for anything but end grain. Granted, my limited experience with LA planes involves a Stanley and LN 60-1/2. I still had problems with tearout with the iron nearly fresh off the stone. For end grain there is no there is no other but for with the grain I believe in chipbreakers. Eventually going to get a LN 1 to use somewhat as a block.

The "setting up a cap iron" article on wikitools and the video in it opened my eyes.


----------



## Tim457

> Somehow I talked my boss into getting me a shelix head for my dw735 and a LN51 for Christmas this year. Pretty sure I m going to owe him some sexual favors but hey? It s a 51. And it ll be free.
> - TheFridge


Wait, I thought you were married to a woman, Fridge. Not that I'm judging or anything. A shelix and LN 51 is a good christmas for sure.


----------



## TheFridge

I am Terry but I thinks she's ok with it since that's a chunk of change not going into my credit card bill in the near future.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Sounds awesome, Fridge. I would love a segmented cutter head for my planer. And i still really need a 51.


----------



## TheFridge

I put one on the jointer about 6 months ago and I loves it oh yeah


----------



## ADN

Contacted Kirsten at Lie-Nielsen and ordered a #9 miter plane, any bets on the delivery date?

Andy


----------



## theoldfart

Didn't think they still made those.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Me either…


----------



## jmartel

They will make their discontinued planes if you call them up and place an order. Likely going to be a while until you get it in though. I'd like one, as I like the way they look way better than the 51 style, but not enough to put in a special order hah.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Woah..So Andy, what does a new no.9 go for?


----------



## ADN

Yes they will make you one, guys selling them on EBay don't want you to know that…..

Estimated delivery is early Spring so we shall see, $375.00

Have wanted one for a while, so when my 51 shows up as an early Christmas present, thought it a sign to order a # 9

Merry Christmas to all,

Andy


----------



## jmartel

Wait. Only $375? I thought they were going for like $500-600.


----------



## ADN

Seen some sell on eBay for $ 700-900 without signature or anything….of course I'm using mine as soon as it shows up, don't really want a tool that's only for show.

Andy


----------



## gfaster

I ought to contact you for one of these tools!  Brilliant!


----------



## AgentTwitch

My mind is blown.


----------



## rad457

> Wait. Only $375? I thought they were going for like $500-600.
> 
> - jmartel


Well if you are in Canada it will be $600 or more LOL!


----------



## Miataguy

> August, The rectangular router plane is so new you can only pre-order it. Beautiful and functional manganese bronze router plane goodness from Walke Moore tools. Ships this summer. I ended up selling my benchtop hollow chisel mortiser, but am still a little short on spending money to pull the trigger. Honestly, I have two Lie-Nielsen router planes that are excellent so I am not sure why I cant look away. Anyone pre order?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - AgentTwitch


It has been almost a year since i tried this out in person at the Cincinnati Lie Nielson tool event, think I will pull the trigger on one this year. I have a Veritas Router plane that works perfectly…but what's one more toy?


----------



## Miataguy

> Contacted Kirsten at Lie-Nielsen and ordered a #9 miter plane, any bets on the delivery date?
> 
> Andy
> 
> - ADN


I picked one up used, it is a sweetheart….


----------



## Miataguy

> Making a new shooting board for my LN 51, it s one of he best planes I ve ever used, but probably would not have purchased it if I were not disabled.
> 
> Will posts some pictures soonest,
> 
> Andy
> 
> - ADN


It is an astonishingly good tool….


----------



## Mosquito

> It has been almost a year since i tried this out in person at the Cincinnati Lie Nielson tool event, think I will pull the trigger on one this year. I have a Veritas Router plane that works perfectly…but what s one more toy?
> 
> - Miataguy


I also had a Stanley #71 when I got my Preston clone (not a Walke Moore, but that's just a Preston clone in its own right). Something about the Preston style router planes that I like, probably the modular design of it


----------



## Miataguy

> I agree with much of the above re: Schwarz. I don t like the move, but it s obviously his choice, so whatever.
> 
> - Mosquito


I don't mind it, creative people do all sorts of different things in their life. I am already thinking about up sizing to 1 inch holes in my next bench to sue the crucible hold fasts.


----------



## Miataguy

> I ve found that the LN 62 excels at 2 things:
> 1) End grain.
> 2) Across the grain flattening (rough work)
> 
> My LN 4 1/2 smoother and LN 7 are definitely superior for jointing and smoothing. As others stated, LN 62 has more tearout risk.
> 
> I also alternated between the LN 62 and the LN No 7 on my shooting board for quite a while; the LN 7 is generally superior, unless you have an extremely hard wood (hard maple+).
> 
> So if you re just getting started, I d recommend a "traditional" plane first.
> 
> - gargey


Quoted for truth. I find traditional planes have less tearout risk. the Verits Jointer plane (low angle jointer) is one sweet puppy and I almost pulled the trigger before I bought some vintage Stanley and a used Lie Nielsen plane instead.

Think now I am going to wait and buy a #7 from L-N to complement my already wonderful type 9C vintage Stanley.


----------



## theoldfart

Miataguy, take a look at BlackBear Forge for 1" Phil Kunze style holdfasts. Less expensive and they are beautiful.


----------



## bobasaurus

> Miataguy, take a look at BlackBear Forge for 1" Phil Kunze style holdfasts. Less expensive and they are beautiful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


I agree, John Switzer at Black Bear Forge is the man. He does usually have a backlog, though. I've met him briefly and follow him on instagram, all his work is impressive.

Someday I'll try forging a holdfast myself. I have a 3/4" mild steel rod just waiting for me on the shelf.


----------



## Miataguy

> Miataguy, take a look at BlackBear Forge for 1" Phil Kunze style holdfasts. Less expensive and they are beautiful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


I will! Thanks….


----------



## Miataguy

> Miataguy, take a look at BlackBear Forge for 1" Phil Kunze style holdfasts. Less expensive and they are beautiful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart
> 
> I agree, John Switzer at Black Bear Forge is the man. He does usually have a backlog, though. I ve met him briefly and follow him on instagram, all his work is impressive.
> 
> Someday I ll try forging a holdfast myself. I have a 3/4" mild steel rod just waiting for me on the shelf.
> 
> - bobasaurus


In the mean time, love the pic of the shooting plane!


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, I just got it. I am away visiting my family and it's the only pic I had on my phone, wasn't trying to show off.


----------



## TheFridge

I sure as hell will be if I bring one home from the Christmas party tomorrow night! Post coitus!


----------



## donwilwol

"wasn't trying to show off" he said with a grin.


----------



## AgentTwitch

I hope Santa's good to you at your Christmas party, Fridge!


----------



## TheFridge

you and me both brother


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Alright, finally a day off where I'm able to bring my shop up to heat. Got a guy with some Aurious coming over to compare rasps. We're both curious. I shall let ya'll know.


----------



## AgentTwitch

The great European rasp throw down. Looking forward to this


----------



## ToddJB

You can get the full briefing on the Modern European Hand Tool Forum, Norm


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Lol. It is easy to get on tangents when there isn't an American option. After tinkering with the Corradis, I'm surprised no American tool makers have attempted a CNC handstiched knockoff. Especially LV.

Anyway. Neighbor Jim and I are done tinkering. So, have the Italians come up with a machine made but equal alternative to hand-stiched rasps? We both think so. Each have their quirks, but the Corradi's cut just as nicely as the Gramercy and Aurious.










Feels a little silly writing an LJ review with more time with the tools, but I probably will anyway in the next day or two


----------



## ToddJB

And the handles look much nicer than my Grame-turds 

Good to hear, Red. Keep updating as you put them through the paces.


----------



## jmartel

Good to know. Now we need a US distributor so we don't have to spend $40 on shipping.


----------



## bobasaurus

They look great. I wonder how they do with loading compared to the aurious.


----------



## AgentTwitch

No AvE style youtube companion video? Pffft, probably a paid endorsement from our European friends…

After I invest in a resin chamber setup and get a shooting board plane (LN 51 or 9), I may add some of them to my arsenal.


----------



## ToddJB

Looks like Lee Valley does sell some Corradi

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/Search.aspx?action=n

As does Woodcraft

http://www.woodcraft.com/search2/search.aspx?query=Corradi


----------



## bobasaurus

I'm not seeing the lee valley ones from your link.

I emailed Corradi and they confirmed that their "gold" series rasps that Red bought are not available anywhere in the US without ordering directly from them.


----------



## ToddJB

I randomly came across a guy on FB who distributes for them in Europe and he told me these were Corradi.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=30286&cat=1,42524

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32950&cat=1,43072,43089


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Funny Todd. That first link is the Handy file and rasp set I threw in my order:










Guess I got a good price on them with the sale….about $36.

Although not the "Gold" stich, They're nice and look very useful. My neighbor was eyeballing them. I'll have to tell him they're on LV too.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Saw those rifflers on woodcraft too. Just keep in mind that the only rasp with the handstiched-like pattern are the Gold.


----------



## ArlinEastman

Hey Red

Have not talked or seen you for a long time since you moved.

I will throw in a few other Americans who make hand tools to sell

http://www.bontzsawworks.net/

http://breseplane.blogspot.com/

And one from Germany and both of these guys are in at making the same saw and are friends of mine

https://two-lawyers-toolworks.blogspot.de/?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=58


----------



## JADobson

Oh man, those two lawyers saws are some of the prettiest things I've ever seen.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Hey Arlin. Good to hear from you.

The rasp review is up:

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/8938


----------



## TheFridge

Work bought me a dw735 shelix head, LN no1 AND no51 (on order).

I love those guys…


----------



## waho6o9

Congratulations Fridge!


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Work bought me a dw735 shelix head, LN no1 AND no51 (on order).
> 
> I love those guys…
> 
> - TheFridge


I hate you…no, but seriously all kidding aside…I hate you.

I built an entire County's network infrastructure from the ground up and I got a card and an attaboy.

If I wasn't so tired I'd look up one of those ASCII symbol middle fingers lol.

Congrats!


----------



## bobasaurus

Damn Fridge, where do you work? The woodworking equivalent of Google? I wish I had helical anything in my shop.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Why Dewalt offering their planers with helical heads yet, I'll never know. They would sell a ton.


----------



## TheFridge

I'm just a plain ol electrician. More like a working supervisor. I was supposed to start a new job last February but it kept getting pushed back because it would leave them in huge bind. So they owe me 

Upstate, I feel your pain. I took them to the woodshed this year  but they gave willingly.

Edit: red, I agree about the block planes having the biggest difference from vintage to new. The Stanley 60-1/2 I had does not compare to the LN. While my Stanley 4-1/2 was is the neighborhood of the LN without the 55 degree frog.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

So I got a reply from Corradi as to selling the Gold series at LV, and expanding their Gold line:

*"I think if the Gold series was sold by LV or more, the price would be much higher. We try to provide a professional and quality product at a price accessible to all, or at least with an excellent quality / price ratio.

There is talk of Gold, but most of those who work with wood have no need for precision rasp like Gold. A Modelmakings Rasps as those produced by Corradi is fine in most jobs.

Also our selection of sharpening files, riffler files and precision files is very large.

Best wishes for a Happy Holidays."
*

Makes sense. They need a price point to sell these rasps…..and they don't want to go lower for a "wholesale" price to sell them. Lee Valley would have to pay dues and mark them up to make any $.

Brings up a bigger subject that we haven't addressed on here. I used to rip on the Woodsmith Store and others for not carrying LN or Veritas. The guy there said, "they won't do wholesale." Well, ya….if I was Lie Nielsen, I wouldn't do wholesale if I didn't have to either. The option is to accept less $ for your tool to be marketed/sold by others, or mark up an already expensive tool.


----------



## terryR

Red, thanks for spending the cash, and typing the review! Now mail them to Bob so we can see how they fair after a year of serious use. LOL.

Glad to hear these are quality tools since the price is much more friendly.


----------



## rad457

*Lee Valley in Canada early Christmas Surprise*, Free Shipping! My H.A. #4 smoother is on order! 
Merry Christmas to Me.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Cool Andre. Did you get the old style, or the new custom planes?


----------



## rad457

> Cool Andre. Did you get the old style, or the new custom planes?
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Custom build, large tote for big mitts! (and of course some other goodies that had been waiting on the wish list!)


----------



## bobasaurus

I'm thinking of picking up the tote and knob kit for my LV block plane, it would make it more comfortable to use. Anybody used one?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Cool Andre. Sounds a lot easier than making my own plane handles. Have to be an idiot to do something like that;-)

I asked Santa for some carving tools. Another tool where there aren't great American made options. Sigh. I almost went for the Ramelsons, but some guys at the woodworking club here talked me out of it. Said I'd just replace them with Pfiels eventually anyway.


----------



## AUswimKC

Yes, bob. Love it. See above all the thread junk in the block plane thread


----------



## DLK

> Cool Andre. Sounds a lot easier than making my own plane handles. Have to be an idiot to do something like that;-)
> 
> I asked Santa for some carving tools. Another tool where there aren t great American made options. Sigh. I almost went for the Ramelsons, but some guys at the woodworking club here talked me out of it. Said I d just replace them with Pfiels eventually anyway.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


pinewoodforge.com makes spoon carving knives.


----------



## putty

A gift from my wife… I will buy other jaws as needed.
This is my first LN tool, it is very well made.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> I built an entire County s network infrastructure from the ground up and I got a card and an attaboy.
> 
> If I wasn t so tired I d look up one of those ASCII symbol middle fingers lol.


I LIT-rally laughed out loud. Funny. Sad….yet funny. Sorry, that would suck, yes.

Fridge, you got some nice things headed your way, congrats.
And congrats to Andre, Putty.

I ordered a LA jack yesterday and they said they didn't have any left and would be making them next week and would send it next week. I said - sounds good, thanks. If I had been making a LA jack out of metal starting next week I wouldn't be able to ship one until the year 2135. Apparently, people who know what they're doing can accomplish things. Then last night I got an email that they shipped it. Guess they found one under the couch cushions.


----------



## WillliamMSP

> I ordered a LA jack yesterday and they said they didn t have any left and would be making them next week and would send it next week. I said - sounds good, thanks. If I had been making a LA jack out of metal starting next week I wouldn t be able to ship one until the year 2135. Apparently, people who know what they re doing can accomplish things. Then last night I got an email that they shipped it. Guess they found one under the couch cushions.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


That's awesome - I got my LAJ (Veritas, not LN) a little early, too. Did you order any extra blades with it or are you going to feel it out? I didn't. I want to, the 50° at least, but I'm just deciding where they are on the priority list since I'm trying to keep the budget in check (and since my server is crapping out and it looks like I'll be NAS shopping soon  )


----------



## ColonelTravis

I was THIS close to getting a toothed blade but I love my scrub and wasn't sure if it was necessary. With the woods I sometimes use it might be, and one of the selling points of that plane to me was a video from Highland WW where the guy used a toothed blade on flamed maple and I was impressed.

We just bought a new car two days ago and I was gonna go nuts and get the Veritas skew rabbet and a HA 4 1/2 the same day as my jack. That ain't happening now! We haven't bought a new car in 10 years, to me, every new car seems like a Tesla. I can't believe the electronics in them now.


----------



## bobasaurus

Bill, you might want to get an extra 25 deg blade then just hone whatever microbevel angle you want on it. It'll be more general purpose that way. I went with the 50 deg spare blade for my LAJ and wish I had done the 25 for more flexibility.


----------



## WillliamMSP

I had considered that, Allen, but kind of dismissed it. My thinking is that: a) I'll eventually get the Veritas smoother that takes the same 2 1/4" blades and comes with a 38° b) I don't have any powered sharpening/honing gear - I assume that I only need to establish a small new bevel (1/4"?) but that still seems like it would be a bit of a slog by hand, wouldn't it?

Colonel - I'd like a toothed blade, too, but I figure I'm too much of a noob to be messin' with problematic grain, so I'll just avoid that (likely expensive) stock for now.


----------



## bobasaurus

Bill, it just takes a few strokes when hand sharpening to establish the microbevel. It's maybe 1/32" wide at most.


----------



## mramseyISU

I wound up with $150 in Lie-Nielsen Gift Cards so as soon as I get this pantry project done for my buddy I'm taking the proceeds and buying a 4-1/2 with a 55 degree frog.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Okay, thanks Allen - good to know. I think that, either way, another blade is #3 or 4 on the priority list, but I'll consider that when the time comes.


----------



## bobasaurus

Here's some info on sharpening and cambering BU blades from Derek Cohen:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/TheSecretToCamberinBUPlaneBlades.html


----------



## bobasaurus

And more info on doing the micro/secondary bevel:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/HybridProfileforFreehandSharpeningBUPlaneBlades.html


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

Guys, Ive got a LN 4 1/2 like new that I would sell for what I have in it. $ 275 shipped in US. The bottom still has original mill traces from original surface grinding. I thought I would list here first before adding it to a post on for sale latter in the afternoon with a couple other LV planes. Just PM me if interested. Ill post in HPOD also.

All the best, Jeff


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ Good deal for someone. Maybe I need another so I don't have to switch frogs all the time….lol.

Colonel- if you got an LN it doesn't surprise me. I think they have the castings and such on hand, but they often just need to assemble and get packaged. They've told me that they're playing catch up so much that they just see what's in the orders and work on those first. Business must be good.

My used no62 came with a toothed blade. Works well, I just forget to use it.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Argh - wish I could take you up on that LN. Good luck, I'm sure you'll find a buyer quick.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Not that I'm contemplating a purchase, but the resale values made me curious - does LN guarantee their product for the life of the product or does that only apply to the original buyer? IOW, is the guarantee transferable?


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Not that I m contemplating a purchase, but the resale values made me curious - does LN guarantee their product for the life of the product or does that only apply to the original buyer? IOW, is the guarantee transferable?
> 
> - WillliamMSP


I've wondered this also if that guarantee follows the plane. Now you've piqued my interest and I'll email and ask.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Colonel- if you got an LN it doesn t surprise me. I think they have the castings and such on hand, but they often just need to assemble and get packaged. They ve told me that they re playing catch up so much that they just see what s in the orders and work on those first. Business must be good.


Yes, a LN plane. My last two major buys were from Veritas, I haven't gotten a LN item in a while. Can't say enough good things about both companies.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Red, I was looking at the photo you put up to start this topic, who makes the saw circled here? Is it a DT?


----------



## AgentTwitch

Looks like a Glenn Drake


----------



## UpstateNYdude

From LN

Hello Nick,

Thank you for your email, and for your interest in our tools.

Our lifetime guarantee applies to all Lie-Nielsen tools for issues that come about through normal use or wear-and-tear, or any factory defects. It generally does not apply to issues present when purchased used, or damages sustained while being mis-handled (i.e. scratches from running over a nail, any damage to the body of the tool from a fall, or severe rust).

That being said, we always do our best to try to offer our help at as little cost possible, so if you have some tools that you purchased used please let us know what you think needs doing and we'll be glad to get you a quote for any repairs or replacements necessary. There are some things we can do for you at little to no cost regardless of the plane's origin, so don't hesitate to follow up.

So it seems regardless they will either repair or replace free or as cheap as possible whether you are the original owner or not, that's awesome. Just one more reason for me to keep buying their planes.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

. I'm in no real hurry to sell it guys, I just dont use it. As far as the guarantee is concerned, its my thought that LN stands behind all there planes without any paperwork, correct me if Im wrong. If I remember correctly Mafe sent a LN side rabbet plane in that he bought second hand with something broken, a very early model and they did the repair and went a step further and drilled and installed the scoring nicker to boot. I will consider trades for something that I might need. Im selling with the idea of buying a set of floats and a few rasp.


----------



## ADN

My Christmas started early with gift certificates for some LN offerings a LN 51, and a LN 8

The number 8 was out of stock so the anticipation builds-how long is the seemingly unanswerable question…..but I'm a happy camper.

Andy


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Im selling with the idea of buying a set of floats and a few rasp.
> 
> - TheTurtleCarpenter


Good idea. I made two floats and *HATED IT*. LJ doesn't offer a font big enough for *HATED IT*. Glad I have them, and they work great for the jobs, but never again….


----------



## gargey

That's a lot of iron.


----------



## gargey

Did your floats require a lot of sharpening?

Mine were very underwhelming when I tried them, and I never reach for them now. Partly because I forget about them, but still.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Thanks for shooting off that email and reporting back, Nick - good stuff.


----------



## Mosquito

The only float I made was an edge float, and I agree with ColonelTravels… it sucked, and that was just an edge float. Rest of the ones I wanted I bought from LN


----------



## TheFridge

A buddy sent his called LN about a part for one he bought used and they shipped the part for free. used


----------



## DonBroussard

Fridge-You must have been extra good this year. Nice grouping! And congrats on the nice tools.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks don.

Well, I'm thankful that a Benjamin seems to be the standard payment for side jobs under an hour and there have been many lately. Apparently when I tell people "I'm not not worried about it." It translates to: "100 bucks sounds great."

But I'm not complaining a bit! A credit card never hurts either. Or the fact I need to use it to build credit 

51 is supposed to come in tomorrow. Can't friggin wait.

If you're ever in the area don just gimme a holler if you still have my number bud.


----------



## DonBroussard

I do still have your number but I haven't been in your area in many moons.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bill, you guys pretty much covered it. I don't think LN cares if you're the original purchaser or not. Might have something to do with their resale value. I bought at least half my LNs from an estate type thing. I've had to hit up LN for a part or two (usually my fault) and they've never even asked if or when I bought it.

Yes, Fridge is having a year of good fortune…that led to a Lie Nielsen implosion….as I did a few years back.

Colonel- that is the peculiar Glen Drake Joinery saw. Check this out. 




View on YouTube

It's an interesting and effective tool. Can't say that I use it too much since I got my Summerfields.


----------



## ColonelTravis

double posting rootin tootin nonsense, sorry.


----------



## ColonelTravis

I've wanted to try hide glue, seems like some nice advantages to using it. Fridge, you ve got some mighty fine stuff lately.

Red - thanks. Yeah man, Bob is so good with those saws. I would love to buy one from him, I can't do that right now though.



> Did your floats require a lot of sharpening?
> 
> Mine were very underwhelming when I tried them, and I never reach for them now. Partly because I forget about them, but still.
> 
> - gargey


Not much sharpening really. They were pretty sharp after first making them (they should be since all you re doing is filing away metal), I haven t sharpened them once since making them. The hardest woods I ve used them in is ash and beech and it ate through them nicely. I don t use them a lot myself, I made them to help me make a rabbet plane. Also used them to scrape down some tenons.

- ColonelTravis


----------



## BigRedKnothead

More ramblings about modern planes….
Those who've been my friends in this site more than a couple years know that I used to be an avid vintage tool collector/rehabber. I owned a few LN and Veritas, but I always tried to save money by using vintage. Despite my efforts I was never really able to achieve the results I wanted. I began to resent the time I spent on the tools rather than the wood. Other people experiences can be completely different, but that's my journey.

Besides my issues with performance (on the often difficult common grade hardwoods I use), the issue of parts for the tools drove me nuts. Break or lose some parts for your Bedrock plane and you may as well buy an LN.

All that to say, I have little fear of buying neglected LN or Veritas tools. Their parts are readily available. The companies will often send them without letting you pay.

Can't remember if I've shared this, but I got my LN no 4 off feebay a few years back. It was sorry lookin in the pics. It was a "buy it now or best offer". I low-balled and got it. 









Cleaned up just fine.


----------



## AgentTwitch

That cherry really looks awesome on the no. 4. I used to think that for a plane to be proper, it needed some exotic wood, but the cherry is an excellent domestic choice and it looks better the older it gets.


----------



## bobasaurus

Red, aside from good sharpening do you tend to rely on close chipbreaker setting or a tight mouth or a high angle frog to control tearout? Or maybe all 3? I've not had much luck with tight mouths, so I aim for a close breaker. Also, do you hone a higher angle on your breaker's leading edge? From Derek Cohen's blog, I see he uses 45 to 50 deg on the breaker.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Allen- so much out there on those subjects. A lot of it is just opinion and preference. My opinion is that tight mouth and chipbreaker settings are overrated. Silly sharp and high angle frogs make the biggest difference for me. But mostly silly sharp.

Norm, hate to say but I have that nicely aged cherry in a drawer now. I made cocobolo totes and knobs for most my LNs;-)


----------



## bobasaurus

I know there is a lot of info, I feel like I've read about it for days and never found a definite answer. Do you go for 55 deg on your usual smoothers?


----------



## bobasaurus

Also, it's not an American tool but I'm curious if anybody here has used a Kell honing guide (from the UK)? It's a side clamp guide that's been around a fair bit longer than the LN. I have one I received as a gift and never actually used it.










Sorry for getting off topic. I'm procrastinating work by talking about tools here.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Never seen those.

I pretty much leave the HAF in the 4 1/2, because it works the big panels….which are what usually give me grief. Regular frogs in the rest.


----------



## gargey

You didn't ask me, but it's the internet and there are no consequences, so I'll (also) answer anyway:

In my experience, these two things are orders of magnitude more important than the others vis-a-vis controlling tearout:

1) Very sharp blade
2) Setting the plane to take a very thing shaving (the thicker the cut, the more force your need to drive the plane through the cut and the more liable you are to tear it out)

I would definitely avoid low angle planes as well, but that's kind of duh.

I set the chipbreaker fairly close, but have no idea if it matters. I never screw around with the mouth, life's too short.



> Red, aside from good sharpening do you tend to rely on close chipbreaker setting or a tight mouth or a high angle frog to control tearout? Or maybe all 3? I ve not had much luck with tight mouths, so I aim for a close breaker. Also, do you hone a higher angle on your breaker s leading edge? From Derek Cohen s blog, I see he uses 45 to 50 deg on the breaker.
> - bobasaurus


----------



## bobasaurus

I always try to get the chipbreaker as close as possible to the edge on my smoothers, but don't bother on other planes. After watching the japanese chipbreaker video, I'm pretty convinced as to its effectiveness. But you can achieve the same thing with other methods (sharp blade, high angle (frog or back bevel), tight mouth, light cuts, etc). A tight breaker can cause clogging when combined with a tight mouth. I actually modified my LN No. 4's mouth slightly (gasp, blasphemy!) to give extra chip clearance, grinding a bevel on the casting behind the mouth. But Konrad Sauer's fine planes don't even have a breaker and produce some of the finest shavings possible, so maybe it's all moot.


----------



## ADN

One can produce diaphanous shavings and still get tear out in highly figured wood.

Super sharp is great and required, but if there is nothing to keep the wood from tearing (high angle, tight mouth or chip breaker so close it acts as a tight mouth), then it will tear.

Can't do both a tight mouth and a chip breaker set to "skim" , it's one or the other….

What works on some wood will not work on others, have some very dry, and very, very curly crouch maple that only an old high angle, tight mouthed smoother will plane it without tear out, and when it gets dull, tear out.

Been a lot written and rewritten about all of these tricks, plus the "English Woodworker" has a great video on the close chip breaker setup. However all of this knowledge can be found in the old woodworking books of past, it has all been done before.

Regards,
Andy


----------



## ColonelTravis

> One can produce diaphanous shavings and still get tear out in highly figured wood.


2017
OUT - gossamer
IN - diaphanous

Seriously, I can't stand "gossamer" any more.

Allen, I watched a video on that honing guide a long time ago and was intrigued. But it seems like the big one on the right would have problems on a stone, if you were using, say, a #6-7 or #8 blade? I don't know, maybe not.


----------



## TheFridge

> I always try to get the chipbreaker as close as possible to the edge on my smoothers, but don t bother on other planes. After watching the japanese chipbreaker video, I m pretty convinced as to its effectiveness. But you can achieve the same thing with other methods (sharp blade, high angle (frog or back bevel), tight mouth, light cuts, etc). A tight breaker can cause clogging when combined with a tight mouth. I actually modified my LN No. 4 s mouth slightly (gasp, blasphemy!) to give extra chip clearance, grinding a bevel on the casting behind the mouth. But Konrad Sauer s fine planes don t even have a breaker and produce some of the finest shavings possible, so maybe it s all moot.
> 
> - bobasaurus


I definitely pay more attention to the chipbreaker after that video. I only close up the mouth to keep shavings from getting sucked out getting run over. Mostly I let the iron rest on the back of the mouth.

I've noticed many of the older smoothers have a higher cutting angle. Seem like that might help a bit wth no chipbreaker.


----------



## ADN

Have the big Kell,and yes it does take support for wide blades on most stones….


----------



## bobasaurus

Did the heat treatment on Brian's drawknife. Heated to critical (about 1500 deg F, the point where a magnet wouldn't stick), quenched in warmed oil, tempered in the kitchen oven at 425 deg F, then drew a softer temper on the tangs individually in the forge:










Now I gotta redo the grinding and polish it up.

This is my second attempt, as I cracked a handle on the first drawknife and didn't feel right sending it off. When I get this sent I'll post finished pics of them both.


----------



## CL810

I read a Schwarz blog where he said he has ALL his chisels with 25 degrees with a 35 secondary bevel. Anyone try this? Thoughts?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Andy, I have all my chisels and plane blades at 30 with a 35 secondary. Works great for me.

Last night I had a business dinner at the Amana Colonies. That visit reminded me to book my bed and breakfast for Handworks 2017. This is the 3rd biannual, and it keeps getting bigger. Filling up five venues this time. As it gets closer, let me know if any of you are going. I'll buy ya an Iowa Pale Ale.

http://www.handworks.co/


----------



## WillliamMSP

I'd love to get to something like Handworks. The nicest collection of new tools that I've had access to is Woodcraft :| Four and a half hour drive, eh?


----------



## woodcox

Lol Col. thank you for that.

I didn't like the description either. But, I do like saying out loud whilst planing, "I wanted gossamer shavins!". With a slight lisp, of course and the cat for an audience. Diaphanous will be well received.

Red, that pilgrimage will be a good time. Thanks for sharing your experience of the event last year.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Andy, I have all my chisels and plane blades at 30 with a 35 secondary. Works great for me.
> 
> Last night I had a business dinner at the Amana Colonies. That visit reminded me to book my bed and breakfast for Handworks 2017. This is the 3rd biannual, and it keeps getting bigger. Filling up five venues this time. As it gets closer, let me know if any of you are going. I ll buy ya an Iowa Pale Ale.
> 
> http://www.handworks.co/
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I also have my secondary at 35 degrees works great for me, I do the same with plane blades too, I adopted the perhaps lazy but much easier method of never having to remember what angle my stuff is at. I have the same 30 degree primary bevel on all.

I wish I could go to Handworks, a bunch of my favorite tool companies and I'm sure the Schwarz will be lurking there too seen as Crucible and his best pal Roy will be there.

Have a good time Red!


----------



## jmartel

I've since switched to not doing a secondary bevel at all. Makes freehand sharpening way easier. I pull out my MKII jig only when I'm resetting a bevel.


----------



## JayT

I'll use a guide to do the primary bevel after grinding when restoring or if the edge starts getting out of square and then freehand after that. Used to do secondary bevels with the honing guide, but found that I can freehand a slightly steeper angle much more quickly. It basically creates a secondary, but I have no clue as to the angle.

Grinder is set at 25 degrees, Planes and bench chisels start out at 30 degrees on the guide. Paring chisels at stay at 25 and don't touch the grinder after restoration and initial edge set up.

I'd love to go to Handworks, but not sure about a 7-8 hour drive each way for it. I did get an extra week of vacation due to time in service that will need used up before July, so we'll see.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> Andy, I have all my chisels and plane blades at 30 with a 35 secondary. Works great for me.
> 
> Last night I had a business dinner at the Amana Colonies. That visit reminded me to book my bed and breakfast for Handworks 2017. This is the 3rd biannual, and it keeps getting bigger. Filling up five venues this time. As it gets closer, let me know if any of you are going. I ll buy ya an Iowa Pale Ale.
> 
> http://www.handworks.co/
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I may have to try to attend that. I'd invite Fridge, but we probably wouldn't get any sleep with him trying to sneak into our rooms.


----------



## Mosquito

So I just came across (again, I remembered seeing them before after I looked 'em up this time around) IBC chisels… Around the same price as LN chisels, less than the LV PMV11 chisels. I really like my IBC A2 iron in my #5-1/2, so the chisels intrigue me, but the handles being removable and blades being interchangeable seems gimmicky to me. I just feel like regardless I'd end up always leaving them alone and not switching back and forth between say a straight chisel and a skew chisel, or something. Anyone here used any of them?


----------



## CL810

Thanks guys. I'm going to do the Schwarz thing and go to 25/35 bevels. My new Veritas PV-M11 chisels arrived yesterday. I think now is the time to make the switch.

I did play around with a couple of them last night. So far I'm impressed. The PV-M11 steel definitely takes more time to get a burr than O1. The backs are dead bhoggin flat right out of the box. Obviously, I've not used them long enough to comment on how long the steel keeps an edge.


----------



## ADN

Have several IBC chisels, they are great, steel holds up really well.

The removable handles come in handy when sharpening, no more issues with the larger area that most chisels have getting in the way.

Handles are not hard to make but have to be very close to original length to fit…..

Would recommend them without hesitation.

Andy


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Andy (ADN), I didn't think about the sharpening aspect of it.

Andy (CL810) nice on the PMV11 chisels. I find myself to keep considering a chisel upgrades (My Ashley Iles seem a bit soft to me), and the PMV11 is at the top of the want list, just trying to figure out if I can settle for less expensive alternatives (LN and IBC are the two at the moment)


----------



## OSU55

Review of the Veritas scraper plane. Definitely the best plane for preventing tear out. It does have a learning curve, but worth the time. It leaves a duller finish on bare wood compared to a good smoother, but if I'm after that fine of a finish, some 320 or 600 sandpaper is going to be used anyway, then the actual finish used will provides the desired sheen of the finished product.


----------



## WillliamMSP

I've had my 1/2" PM-V11 chisel for all of two weeks, but I already know that I'm not buying any other bench chisels but those in the near future. I had considered LN, but wasn't terribly fond of the ergonomics of my (new issue) Stanley 750 so, figuring LN would be similar, that was what finally prodded me in to making a decision between LN and Veritas. No ragrets.

Going to order at least a 1/4" Veritas mortise chisel before free shipping ends. Still undecided on A2 vs PM-V11 there… it's $20 bucks on the smaller ones and $36 more on the 3/8 and 1/2 :|


----------



## Mosquito

My Ray Iles are a pain to sharpen, since they're D2 steel, but I've only had to do it twice in the last 3 years… And that's not neglecting a dull edge. I'd say spring the extra for PMV11 there, as a mortise is cross grain chopping, and you're probably doing more than 1 at a time for a project. But that's my .02 not my $38


----------



## WillliamMSP

Ohhh - you have the Iles. I was pretty set on those, but the sharpening aspect wasn't attractive and Derek Cohen spoke highly of the Veritas vs the Iles (and everything else). I still wouldn't mind hands-on with one, though… if you want to try out the Veritas 1/2" bench, I wouldn't be opposed to a swap between that and an Iles for a week (but I'm still plan to order the 1/4" Veritas in the next few days).


----------



## jmartel

I think the PMV11 steels would be really nice to have. Probably more than good enough for anything I'd want to do. But, I think I'm already set in stone on wanting some nice Japanese chisels next. They are gorgeous.


----------



## Mosquito

Ha! We might be able to arrange that. I've only got 2, 1/4" and 3/8"


----------



## Mosquito

My problem JMart, is I know next to nothing about Japanese chisels that is any way relevant to picking up a high quality set. The intrigue me, but prices and lack of knowledge turn me off to them, unfortunately


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> My problem JMart, is I know next to nothing about Japanese chisels that is any way relevant to picking up a high quality set. The intrigue me, but prices and lack of knowledge turn me off to them, unfortunately
> 
> - Mosquito


Just buy the Dragon bench chisels from ToolsfromJapan, I have three I got about a month or so ago and they are marvelous. I'll post some pics up when I get a chance, but they are by far the best chisels I've ever owned.


----------



## jmartel

Nick, I was probably going to only get one of the dragons, and 2 or 3 normal ones. Don't think I could get away with dropping $300-400 on a handful of chisels without the wife getting mad.

Mos, you can get some good ones for $50-75/chisel if you get them directly from Japan. Plus some for shipping, but overall it'll be less than buying them stateside.

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=312_489_490_491

Same people I bought my sharpening stone set from. Awesome stuff for sharpening.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Nick, I was probably going to only get one of the dragons, and 2 or 3 normal ones. Don t think I could get away with dropping $300-400 on a handful of chisels without the wife getting mad.
> 
> Mos, you can get some good ones for $50-75/chisel if you get them directly from Japan. Plus some for shipping, but overall it ll be less than buying them stateside.
> 
> http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=312_489_490_491
> 
> Same people I bought my sharpening stone set from. Awesome stuff for sharpening.
> 
> - jmartel


What??? Just tell your wife to stop being so lazy and get another job to fuel your hand tool addiction like I did, just watch out for the flying dishes etc. mine got angry for some reason…


----------



## CL810

Mos, I hear you on the cost. I ended up not buying the set, because as seldom as I use a 1" chisel, I decided I could just use my old one. You're going to have the chisels a very long time so don't settle for nothing.  Just get the ones you use regularly.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^No pmv11 pics Andy, so we don't believe you.

Didn't even know IBC mades chisels. Well huh. The walnut handles are sharp lookin.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> I had considered LN, but wasn t terribly fond of the ergonomics of my (new issue) Stanley 750 so, figuring LN would be similar, that was what finally prodded me in to making a decision between LN and Veritas. No ragrets.
> - WillliamMSP


Yeah I'm on the fence about that size. I own 1 new 750 and like it for some things and not for others. First time I saw the LNs I was shocked how little they were. I thought they'd be much larger than the 750s.


----------



## bobasaurus

The LNs feel great in my hands, but I kind of hate socket chisel handles… mine are always coming loose and falling out at awkward times. Might have to look into a way of increasing friction in the future (I think I read hairspray somewhere?).


----------



## CL810

Maiden voyage:


----------



## WillliamMSP

> Yeah I m on the fence about that size. I own 1 new 750 and like it for some things and not for others. First time I saw the LNs I was shocked how little they were. I thought they d be much larger than the 750s.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


The thing that I don't like about that Stanley design are the two thin "waists," one on handle and then the skinny part of the socket before the blade flares out. Just a preference where I don't like the feel when my fingers land on/between those points, particularly when chopping.


----------



## ADN

Have at least one of the most popular new chisels but my favorites are my old Swan and Greenlee chisels…..my mortise chisels are a mix of old Buck Brothers, Swans, Greenlee and Matsumura Japanese.

Over the years I've collected a large set of what is known as the "classic thin" Greenlee chisels, not sure why, never use more than a few, but they are the best chisels I've ever used.

To get a "custom fit" try making your own handles, it makes a world of difference…..

Andy


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Doubt the Amazon vendor paid for the rights for this shirt….but I kinda want one.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Maiden voyage:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - CL810


Think these are my dream chisels now. How many did you get?


----------



## TheFridge

Finally came in. Time to make or modify some shooting boards!


----------



## CL810

CT, I have 5. 1/8" thru 3/4"



> Think these are my dream chisels now. How many did you get?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


----------



## CL810

Fridge, your 51 has seen more daylight than Terry's has in two years. :-0


----------



## TheFridge




----------



## ColonelTravis

>


Lot of kitchen stuff. What is that long metal thing there - a deli slicer?
I think UPS has built a road directly from Warren, Maine, to your house.

You got some awesome stuff lately.


----------



## Miataguy

> I wound up with $150 in Lie-Nielsen Gift Cards so as soon as I get this pantry project done for my buddy I m taking the proceeds and buying a 4-1/2 with a 55 degree frog.
> 
> - mramseyISU


I very badly want that exact plane…enjoy!


----------



## Miataguy

> Lot of kitchen stuff. What is that long metal thing there - a deli slicer?
> I think UPS has built a road directly from Warren, Maine, to your house.
> 
> You got some awesome stuff lately.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


 Might be more like Norfolk Southern built a double tracked line, actually….


----------



## TheFridge

Colonel, scale for weighing shellac and whatnot and a thermometer for hide glue.


----------



## ADN

Finished my long grain shooting board a few days ago and what a time/labor saver it has turned out to be. Never really even thought about needing one, my freehand jointer skills are good enough for my own work, but came across this article about them and thought, why not…

Didn't know what I didn't know, wow! Now I have used my bench from time to time as a make shift one, but that's not the same as a dedicated one sitting there ready to use.

Used it to make a pair of winding sticks for a friend and was done in no time…..

Would never have guessed how usefull this thing is. Mines nuthing fancy, but here's a few pics….




























Happy New Year,
Andy


----------



## WillliamMSP

Interesting. Is this the one in Furniture & Cabinetmaking? I can see how that would be really useful, 'specially for repeatability.


----------



## ADN

Yep, that's the one, changed it up a little, but after the author talked about how easy it was to make winding sticks with one I had to give it a try…..

BTW Have to hand it to ya Bill, not many readers of F&C this side of the pond….


----------



## DLK

ADN thanks for the post and Bill thanks for the link.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Oh, I didn't know that F&C existed up to that point - I just did a search after reading your post. 

I'll definitely have to put one together, sometime though - I had thought about jigs for tapering legs in the past, and this looks like it would take care of that, too (with enough play in the fence). Cool tool.


----------



## ADN

Totally forgot to add the info about tapering, that is a fantastic capability of this jig….

All you have to do is leave one bolt out and clamp the fence down, or make a slot for one of the holes, and your ready to taper.

Andy


----------



## bobasaurus

That looks super handy, I'll bet the curly shavings are really satisfying too.


----------



## jmartel

I read F&C when I can, didn't see that jig though. How do you ensure that you get the fence parallel on that jig besides just careful measuring?


----------



## ADN

I use a marking gauge, or a piece already to size…..combo square, dividers…...


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Never heard of a long grain shooter Andy. Looks like it'd work. Is that kinda something for an all hand tool guy? I often start with a power jointer if it's rough.


----------



## ADN

Red:

Yea, although one could do rough work, but that's not it's designed intent, it's really for precision shooting/sizing/squaring and excels at small stuff.

Fo instance, just made the hardwood banding for some plywood,very fast and simple to size, also made fast work of miter frame.

Most of my rough jointer work is done with a # 7 & 8, don't really use my power jointer much anymore….power planer still a blessing though.

My power tool shop is almost 3 times the size of my hand tool space and spend the majority of my time in the hand tool area.

However a long grain shooting board can be used in either shop equally well…


----------



## TheFridge

> My power tool shop is almost 3 times the size of my hand tool space and spend the majority of my time in the hand tool area.
> 
> - ADN


I hear that.


----------



## mramseyISU

> Andy, I have all my chisels and plane blades at 30 with a 35 secondary. Works great for me.
> 
> Last night I had a business dinner at the Amana Colonies. That visit reminded me to book my bed and breakfast for Handworks 2017. This is the 3rd biannual, and it keeps getting bigger. Filling up five venues this time. As it gets closer, let me know if any of you are going. I ll buy ya an Iowa Pale Ale.
> 
> http://www.handworks.co/
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I'll be there I live up in Waterloo so it's an easy drive for me.


----------



## mramseyISU

> Andy, I have all my chisels and plane blades at 30 with a 35 secondary. Works great for me.
> 
> Last night I had a business dinner at the Amana Colonies. That visit reminded me to book my bed and breakfast for Handworks 2017. This is the 3rd biannual, and it keeps getting bigger. Filling up five venues this time. As it gets closer, let me know if any of you are going. I ll buy ya an Iowa Pale Ale.
> 
> http://www.handworks.co/
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I ll be there, I live up in Waterloo so it s an easy drive for me.


----------



## paratrooper34

Well, I am going to dive a shout out for little tool I didn't really give a lot of thought about, just thought it was more of a toy than anything else.

I am talking about the Veritas mini router plane. I bought the full size version with the inlay cutting kit and right before checkout, I threw the mini router in there as a lark. Today, I used that tool and it did a damn fine job.

I needed to make a new handle for a model making tool.. The tool came with a crappy, thin. plastic handle that just doesn't cut it. So I made a new handle for it. There is a brass piece that is between to pieces of wood that is inlaid to one side of the wood piece. Think of knife scales, that is what I made for it. So to inlay this small brass piece, I scribed layout line and went to work with the mini router. It worked perfectly! I sharpened the little blade prior to use and it left a perfect spot for the brass piece to sit in. I was prepared to dig it out with chisel at first. Then I went for the small LN router which was too big to effectively ride on the scales. Then I remembered I had the mini router. Great choice.

So here is to the Veritas mini router. Not a toy, but a fully functional router capable of performing on the little stage and getting it done!




























Here it is finished beside the tool it is replacing:


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I dig it Mike. A small router is very useful when you need it.

Mramsey. We'll talk as it gets closer if you want to meet up.

I had the Veritas shooter….and just about everything else in action today. Fun day off.


----------



## CL810

Mike, I've often wonder about the mini tools. Looks like it was the perfect tool for the job.


----------



## Iguana

Dropped coin on this a few months back. My cheapo coping saw was just not behaving nicely (I'm guessing metal fatigue), needed to be replaced. Having a Lee Valley in town can be dangerous.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Nice, Mark! One day I hope to own the 5" coping saw version. My Olsen does the job, but lacks the appeal of that beauty.


----------



## ADN

Been eyeing the Fret saw version, not that I need it, but it would be simpler than bending the blade on my current saw, and yes, they look cool to.


----------



## terryR

+1 to the real functionality of mini tools. I have a Veritas detail rabbet plane, and it's sweet for cleaning up tiny grooves. Have wanted to collect more tiny tools, but they do seem like toys when you look at them online! LOL! That router looks very useful!

Enabler warning,










an unbelievable upgrade from an Olson coping saw! Can secure the tiniest of blades, and turns the blade as quick as you can think of doing so. Super freeking light weight, and I use the Aluminum version. Well worth the asking price! 5 stars! yada yada.

And a THANKS to Mr. Red for the custom coco handle.


----------



## TheFridge

Not wenge terry? For shame…

I have the 5" fret and it is awesome.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Yeah, anyone who uses a coping/fret saw often and is on the fence about buying the Knew saw, get off the fence and buy it!

It is superior to anything out there.


----------



## bobasaurus

Brian's drawknife is coming along:


----------



## ADN

Making some shop shelves, and needed to cut some dados ( housing joints ) so I pulled out the fantastic LV back saw depth stop. Made the side cuts to depth in seconds, what a great accessory….


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Well if that ain't a drool worthy shop shot. I've got half a leaner…(I apologize for that Lord…and bless all the Pygmies in New Guinea).

Nah really. I've got pic somewhere, but I stripped the red off my KC saw, and Terry turned me coco handle for it. It's a peach.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Last day of free shipping from LV.

They made my choice between A2 and PM-V11 mortise chisel easy by not getting the PM-V11 version in stock (or, if they did, quantities were limited and sold out fast).


----------



## summerfi

Back on the subject of rasps, I've just finished roughing out these two saw handles and thought I'd give a quick report on my observations. One saw handle is walnut, the other is apple, so this was a good comparison of the rasps on different woods. While I used other rasps too, the ones I'll mention here for comparison are all half-round profile. The rasps pictured are:

A - Corradi Gold 6" cut 10, machine stitched (Thanks to Red for letting me tag onto his order).
B - Vintage Atkins 6" unknown (fine) cut, machine made.
C - Iwasaki File 8" extreme-fine cut, milled tooth.
D - Vintage Atkins 8" unknown (fine) cut, machine made.










Though B and D are vintage, they have been well taken care of and are still sharp. They are two of my go-to rasps for making saw handles. B leaves a smooth cut that is essentially ready for sanding. D leaves marks in the wood that I smooth with a file before sanding. Both are tapered, easy to use, and do a nice job. This is basically a comparison of the Corradi and Iwasaki against these two rasps.

Corradi (A): When I first saw A, I thought it would be too small, but it's not. Though it is only 6", the base is wider than my 6" Atkins, making it perform like a bigger rasp. I really like the tapered shape. It is handy on both smaller and larger radiuses and is useful for getting into tight spots. This is an aggressive rasp, and it cuts faster than either of the Atkins. It takes a little getting used to, but then is not hard to use. The cut is not as smooth as I had hoped, being intermediate between the Atkins 6" and 8". It still requires smoothing with a file before sanding. I don't see this as a finishing rasp, but it is great for quick roughing of a handle. Then I go to my Atkins for final shaping and finishing. Being slower cutting, they give more control. Though I like this rasp a lot, there is one negative I'll mention. The edges are sharp, and if you aren't careful when using the flat side, the edges will dig into your wood and quickly cause an unwanted divot . Also, the teeth go all the way to the edges (there is no safe edge), and if you are working in a tight spot, the edge teeth can make unintended gouges on the opposite side. It would be easy to make a safe edge on the rasp, and I may do that later after I've had a chance to use it more.

Iwasaki (C ): Though called a file, it performs more like a rasp. This tool cuts very fast, even faster than the aggressive Corradi. I'm glad I didn't get one coarser than the extreme-fine cut. It is a little difficult to use at first until you learn to apply little or no pressure. The cut is smooth, similar to the 6" Atkins, so you could go right to sanding after use. The shavings are not like rasp shaving, but longer. I've read that the cutting action is like a bunch of little planes, and I think that's true. I like this tool and think in the right application it would be amazing. But it is too big for saw handle making. The lack of taper is a disadvantage. It performs bigger than the 8" Atkins, and is not useful on saw handles except for the less confined outside area of the grip. The Corradi is nearly as fast, so it doesn't make sense to use this rasp for saw handles. Iwasaki makes smaller rasps, and I would like to try one of those.

Sorry this is a little long, but I hope it is useful.


----------



## ToddJB

Interesting, Bob. So you think the 150mm (6") Iwaski Extreme fine cut might be able to replace all 4 of those?


----------



## ColonelTravis

Great stuff, Bob. I love accounts like that, thanks. I've got a Iwasaki (I guess, my garage is a mess and I haven't seen it in a while.) It was also very aggressive.


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks for the feedback Bob


----------



## terryR

Thanks for sharing your experiences, Bob!

I agree completely that the shape of the file/rasp is as important as the cutting teeth. And the shape of A looks very useful for small, curved work.

I'm sorta blown away by how large each of these tools look, and how you create such small, beautiful curves with them. I enjoy using much smaller rasps/files for such small work.

Need to play with my Iwasaki file more, I find it difficult to apply little to no pressure with it.


----------



## rad457

I have the Iwasaki files and have yet to use anything but the extra fine one, they are a very aggressive file/rasp! My favorite go to file is a Bahco Oberg!


----------



## summerfi

Todd, I'd like to try a 6" Iwasaki, but I don't think it could replace all the other rasps. The absence of taper is a real disadvantage IMO. Plus the Iwasaki's are curved steel with no flat side. They are kind of thick, which means the edge will not fit into crevices. You're just going to have to buy more tools. What a shame.

Terry, I like to size the radius of the rasp to the radius of the work. Hence, the 8" Atkins gets used on the bigger curves and the 6" on the smaller curves. These aren't the only rasps I use though. I use a cabinet rasp, which has a thinner rounded profile, a couple of round rasps, and some files. I have a couple of knife-shaped files that are great for getting into the really narrow crevices.


----------



## jmartel

Bob, once you use the Iwasaki a bit more, it gets easier and easier to cut. It's extremely grabby when new. But you still need little to no pressure with it. I'm a big fan of mine. Not great for saw handles, but very good for larger items.


----------



## mramseyISU

> Making some shop shelves, and needed to cut some dados ( housing joints ) so I pulled out the fantastic LV back saw depth stop. Made the side cuts to depth in seconds, what a great accessory….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - ADN


I think I need one of those depth stops. I had no idea that Lee Valley made one.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

. I think I would reach for the hip if I could actually try out the files at a store beforehand. I keep an ear out to everbodys comments but still havent shelled out the cash yet.

I use all my old files and rasp and do what I need and sometimes make profiles and flat sticks and stick sandpaper to them. So far Ive done what I needed but I think what would be more usefull would be something in the middle in the way of courseness and I dont want to make a purchase and find out I should have chosen 1 a little finer or course in # no.


----------



## summerfi

I hear you Turtle. Rasps are expensive to be buying something you don't want or can't use.


----------



## ADN

> I think I need one of those depth stops. I had no idea that Lee Valley made one.
> 
> - mramseyISU


Yea….it's sure is an easy way of insuring a precise depth of cut, and its a bargain.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Enjoyed your take on the rasps Bob. I have no regrets with mine. Glad to have them in my arsenal. I reach for them more often now.


----------



## rad457

Thanks Randall, made me a real nice 55 degree # 4, gave the iron a couple of strokes on a #8000 stone and tried it out, Feel real nice! Learning curve setting up the blade but with the PMV-11 iron should not mess with it very often. Goes good with my L.A. Smoother and scraper!










Picked up a PMV-11 iron for a Stanley #3 that was neglected due to forgetfulness!


----------



## AgentTwitch

Very nice!


----------



## CL810

ADN, thanks for posting about your long grain shooting board. Somewhere along the discussion I realized I could just build an enhancement for my tapering jig that would allow me to just drop the tapering jig in and have a long grain shooting board.



















Works like a champ!


----------



## ADN

Wow, now that is clever and it looks like you did a custom design…..

I'm truly amazed at how much the thing gets used, especially since it didn't exist a few weeks ago.

Working on a compound fence for mine, wish It had been incorporated ito the original design.

Regards,
Andy


----------



## CL810

Andy, I think I figured this out right but…. Say you want a 2" wide board. Rough cut to say 2-1/16", set the fence for 2" and lock it down. The board hangs over 1/16' and you starting planing till it's done. Unlike regular shooting boards that have a guide for locking in the plane and you kinda feed the board into the plane.

Hope that made sense. lol

Mine will only accommodate a 36" long board. Figured if I ever run into a need I'll just figure out something.


----------



## ADN

You got it, that's why one can't add a side track, the plane would bind….your board will come out exactly the size you set and is perfectly square!

Outstanding,
Andy


----------



## DLK

> I m truly amazed at how much the thing gets used, especially since it didn't exist a few weeks ago.
> Regards,
> Andy
> 
> - ADN


I think thats the nature of our hobby/work. You have gotten along just fine with work arounds and then one day you make or buy the right tool. Now you can't live without it and are using it nearly every day. Even inventing random projects just so that you can use it. The new tool has opened up you eyes to possibilities.


----------



## ADN

Don:

You're correct, sometimes the next great thing is a bust….My book by Graham Blackburn recommended the long grain shooting board, but I ignored it….

One of those "didn't know what I didn't know"

Andy


----------



## knockknock

I use my long grain shooting board for prepping the stock for styles & rails, and anytime I have several pieces that all need to be the same width.


----------



## mramseyISU

Added a new plane to the collection. I cashed in a couple gift cards with Lie-Nielsen and picked up a 4-1/2 with a 55 degree frog for a project I've got coming up where I want to use some birdseye maple for drawer fronts.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Finished my long grain shooting board a few days ago and what a time/labor saver it has turned out to be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Happy New Year,
> Andy
> 
> - ADN


Nice shooting board, Andy. It finally hit me (sunk in), but I realised that with stops (screws) at this end, that would also serve Mos well when he's making his thin mouldings ("sticking").


----------



## WillliamMSP

An FYI for those interested in the long-grain shooting board idea - just picked up a T- track kit that Rockler has on sale for $20. Other than the hold down clamps (which you could buy or make separately), it's probably enough track/hardware for two boards.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Thanks for the heads-up Bill. I could use that for several things.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

Ugh you guys make me jealous with your shooting boards, I still have to build a real bench first, I've been working off a MFT3 table now for about 3-4 years and been mostly a power tool user until this past year. I've been switching over to try more hand tools and enjoy the quiet and complexity of them. I am still fumbling in the dark and have had little time since the birth of my daughter to better learn and use them, but I'm hoping this spring and summer to get going on building my bench (Schwarz style), probably going to use SYP as I don't want to use the expensive stuff on my first go of it, but I did buy the Benchcrafted set for the leg and tail vise and will probably give inlaying some Walnut into it (I love Walnut, its my favorite wood).

I also have to get the core of my hand tools rounded out and sell off a few more of my unused power tools since switching over as more of a Hybrid WW.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Congrats MrRamsey. She's a beaut!


----------



## rad457

> Added a new plane to the collection. I cashed in a couple gift cards with Lie-Nielsen and picked up a 4-1/2 with a 55 degree frog for a project I ve got coming up where I want to use some birdseye maple for drawer fronts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - mramseyISU


That is sweet looking chunk of metal!
Sure wonder how the L.N. compares to the Veritas. I have some L.N. stuff(pre Can. $ crash!) and do really like them but the PMV-11 blades "IMO" are so much better. 
On a side note after putting the PMV-11 iron into my Stanley #3 ran it across the same board that the Veritas HA #4 was tested on and would say the Stanley made a cleaner cut. Q.S. straight grain White Oak so not to much of a challenge!


----------



## ADN

NYdude

Less than a year ago I had no real workbench, did all my work off of some makeshift benchs….so dig in and build that bench.

Still have my complete machine woodworking shop, but really only use the thickness planer and bandsaw now days.

Andy


----------



## ColonelTravis

Congrats on that 4-1/2!

Nick I've got a no-frills pine bench with BC crisscross leg vise. Works great, you'll be very glad you have one. Honestly, I can't see myself going any other way with a leg vise other than using that crisscross. So much easier than a pin or chain system. Sorting through multiple Home Depots in multiple towns for defect-free 2×12 boards was a pain. Sap build-up on every blade in my garage was a pain. But you'll end up with something rock solid. Buy those boards well in advance, sticker, acclimate. I would say a few months. I don't trust weeks on SYP, I trust months. The longer the better.

At some point I'm gonna build a slightly longer bench, mine is only 6 feet. Will use ash or beech because I'm cheap and would rather spend wood money on nice wood for projects and I'm sick of pine sap. Otherwise, a pine bench can last you for many, many years. It's strong and heavy. Even only at 6 feet, mine doesn't move at all when I plane something.


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## BigRedKnothead

I picked up a set of Greenlee socket chisels. I have no idea when they stopped making them in Rockford IL (as the stamp says). I'm sure they're more vintage than modern.










The steel does seem pretty hard, but the backs of the wide ones aren't even close to flat. Same ol' vintage conundrum: might save you some money….but they'll cost you some time.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Congrats on that 4-1/2!
> 
> Nick I ve got a no-frills pine bench with BC crisscross leg vise. Works great, you ll be very glad you have one. Honestly, I can t see myself going any other way with a leg vise other than using that crisscross. So much easier than a pin or chain system. Sorting through multiple Home Depots in multiple towns for defect-free 2×12 boards was a pain. Sap build-up on every blade in my garage was a pain. But you ll end up with something rock solid. Buy those boards well in advance, sticker, acclimate. I would say a few months. I don t trust weeks on SYP, I trust months. The longer the better.
> 
> At some point I m gonna build a slightly longer bench, mine is only 6 feet. Will use ash or beech because I m cheap and would rather spend wood money on nice wood for projects and I m sick of pine sap. Otherwise, a pine bench can last you for many, many years. It s strong and heavy. Even only at 6 feet, mine doesn t move at all when I plane something.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


I was going to shoot for 7ft long and either 22 or 24" wide, is the pitch really bad on the kiln dried stuff? I have lumber place near me that's pretty good usually.


----------



## putty

Nice chisels Red, I have 4 or 5 of the Greenlee's. You are right about the backs of them though. Yours look like they are pretty much unused.


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## ADN

Have a set of Greenlees that look similar, mine are commonly known as "classic thins" and are my favorite chisels. Turned cherry handles for them, they go up to 1.5" also have 1/8th & 1/4 Greenlee Mortise chisels.

They hold their edges magnificently even at 25 deg….










Andy


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## bearkatwood

I haven't been on here in a while as I have been broke and not buying ANY tools at all. I fear I am going to be stuck with what I have for the foreseeable future. But that is ok, I spent way more than I should have last year. I will have to watch you all in envy. Show me the goods lumberjocks


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## BigRedKnothead

Andy, Bravo on the Cherry handles. I've heard that about Greenlee steel, so I couldn't pass these NOS buggers for $60. Not sure if the steel is better than LN, but I think it's harder than my Ashley Iles.

But like others said, the backs are laughable. The dark part is what made contact with my DMT:









The opposite of Japanese chisels…lol. I'll flatten them eventually because they seem worth it.

Brian, I've probably sold more tools than I've bought in past year. I've got a pretty solid set up, and I don't keep tools around if they collect dust. Still have a passion for them though.


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## bobasaurus

Brian, you'll have a new one headed your way soon. Another day or two and it will be done. Looking forward to posting pictures here.


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## bearkatwood

Oh, cool. I can't wait Allen, I will show it off here when I get it. Red, I have a hard time letting go of tools and I probably should get rid of some. I had a good year last year and got to buy a whole bunch of new goodies, but unfortunately life has dictated that extra cash is a thing of the past. The only tools I have acquired in the last three months have been thru trade or swap. Actually the last tool I bought was the Jarvis, an antique wheel making tool and I had to have it smuggled over from England and that was in trade as well. I don't know how I had so much to get all I did last year and fly to Cincinnati. Maybe I should go buy some scratch tickets


----------



## nakmuay

Trying out my new Veritas iron edge plane on rabbets. I need to make some fences, and there's no nicker so I have to score the egde when going across the grain, but works well so far!

Sorry, don't know how to rotate the pic!


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## ADN

Looks like a nice plane, have fun…

Andy


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## Miataguy

> Finished my long grain shooting board a few days ago and what a time/labor saver it has turned out to be. Never really even thought about needing one, my freehand jointer skills are good enough for my own work, but came across this article about them and thought, why not…
> 
> Didn t know what I didn t know, wow! Now I have used my bench from time to time as a make shift one, but that s not the same as a dedicated one sitting there ready to use.
> 
> Used it to make a pair of winding sticks for a friend and was done in no time…..
> 
> Would never have guessed how usefull this thing is. Mines nuthing fancy, but here s a few pics….
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Happy New Year,
> Andy
> 
> - ADN


I actually love the look of your bench top…nice SYP with some patina….


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## bearkatwood

Very nice setup.


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## ADN

Thanks, it's mostly old growth long leaf pine with a lot of what's called heartwood, very old stuff, recycled from our old house remodeling….


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## Handtooler

Wow! What a beauty. That Moxon vise and leg vise surely make for a wonderful addition. I have neither on my 21st Century bench constructed from pecan from a fallen tree in my yard 1991. I also admire the dead woman, (per Megan Fitzpatrick) you've added also which I have not yet assembled.

The only Long neddled pine I've ever seen or used was grown in South Mississippi below Jackson. Where did you acquire yours?


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## ADN

We have a late 1800s German stone farm house, when we remodeled I saved all of the wood from that. The stones are 14" thick so there was a lot of 3"x14"x12' pieces of wood.

That allowed me to make the bench 10 ft long by 5 inches thick, weighs in around 700 lbs, it also has a Lie-Nielsen tail vise, which has turned it to be my favorite feature.

Those are some of my bench glamour shots, have since moved the Moxon to it own dedicated stand attached to the wall as a jointers bench.

Did run out of the savaged material so had to come up with a stain to try and match the color of the old stuff, it's about 20% syp…..

Don't really know how but the end product is way above my skill level so I'm very pleased and show it off when any opportunity avails itself ;-)

My wife has always said that I have a diaphanous veneer of sophistication….

Andy

BTW The "Old Woman" is from an old barn door I found almost buried in horse s__t no clue as to the type of wood.


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## BigRedKnothead

Yep, that bench is a looker Andy.

A pitfall of continuous improvement in woodworking….is that you look at your early stuff and wish you had a do-over. When I look at my dining hutch and my bench, I can't help but think how much better I could make it now.

Love the LN Tail vise I've gotten by with a face vise on the end of mine for years. I've been very tempted to put an LN twin screw on that end.


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## ADN

BRK

You have the same type bench top joinery, mine is not fastened, so I can and have jacked the top(s) off, don't know if you have that ability. If so it would make installation of a LN tail or twin screw vise a whole lot easier, not saying you couldn't do it….

Another option would be to flip the whole bench onto it's top.

I'm contemplating another BC crisscross leg vise on the other side of my bench and decided the simplest method of hogging out the leg would be to flip the bench onto it's side.

Like you say,always improving,
Andy


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## jmartel

Clearly the solution is to sell your hutch and bench and use the proceeds to fund the re-builds.

I'm considering the same thing with my coffee table.


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## ADN

> Clearly the solution is to sell your hutch and bench and use the proceeds to fund the re-builds.
> 
> I m considering the same thing with my coffee table.
> 
> - jmartel


LOL I second that!

However it's nice to have a bench to build a bench, and 2 high end workbenchs would be way cool.

And just think, when you start teaching woodworking classes, you're going to need another bench…..


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## JayT

> A pitfall of continuous improvement in woodworking….is that you look at your early stuff and wish you had a do-over. When I look at my dining hutch and my bench, I can t help but think how much better I could make it now.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Hear, hear! I've been resisting the urge to delete some of the projects I've posted on LJ. Some of them make me grimace, others are barf-worthy. The only reason they are left up is as a reminder of how far I've come with the help of many people on here.


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## ToddJB

Every time someone comes into our house and says "What a cool dinning table", and my wife says, "Thanks! Todd made it" I shudder and immediately apologize for it. Ha. I hate that thing.


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## jmartel

Todd, you can't say that and not have it as one of your projects. Spill the beans and post a photo. It can't be that bad. At least not as bad as the bastardization of a first project that I did (kitchen island build, before I joined LJ)


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## ColonelTravis

I read about this little sharpener last week (Lee Valley sells it), I hadn't heard about it until then. Best sharpener I've ever used. I usually sharpen my kitchen knives with water stones. That worked great but this little thing does just as good a job in a fraction of the time it takes with stones. Also got it because I don't have anything good to sharpen marking knives and other small blades. Does scissors, shears, etc.

Folks, it is the real deal.


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## WillliamMSP

^^^ Cool - good to hear. I've had one of those on my LV wish list since Schwarz wrote about it, but I haven't needed any help getting above $40 during the last few free shipping promos. I'll have to make a point of it next time.

Speaking of the LV free shipping, my 1/4" Veritas A2 mortise chisel showed up today. The baby's been cantankerous, though, and haven't had a chance to do anything with the chisel other than admire it. It looks nice. ¯\ (ツ) /¯


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## ToddJB

JMart, was made before my LJ days. Actually it's the first project I made from wood as an adult - on my buddies porch, using a circular saw, router, and drill. It's made out of wood I found in an alley. I knew nothing about joinery, or that wood moved, or that "eyeballing" it was a bad idea.

I couldn't find any "finished product" shots, but here are some that the table is in.



















Everything is just bolted together with lag and brackets. 45s are not 45 and the frame peices are not the same length resulting in some massive gaps. The piece of glass that is set down in the table is not flush, and was too big for the hole so I had to route the inside of the frame bigger. One of the legs leans in. All the cracks and gaps and holes just fill up with crumbs and food gunk.

It looks cool. But it was not made by a woodworker.


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## BigRedKnothead

^Looks good from my house Todd.



> Clearly the solution is to sell your hutch and bench and use the proceeds to fund the re-builds.
> 
> - jmartel


Ya, I'd even feel bad selling the hutch. There's a certain art to the shelf peg holes…lol.

The wife wouldn't let me anyway. Sentimental to her. Prolly give it to one of the kids someday. I don't care….just don't want to look at it anymore.

For the bench… I couldn't sell it. Means too much to me. Would like to have a bigger shop one day, build another and keep both.

Back to tools, fellow LJ gifted me this DT Chisel. Made it himself with 01 steel. It's a peach. I like it better than my LN.


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## bobasaurus

Who made that chisel Red? Looks great.


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## BigRedKnothead

LJ Hammerthumnb. Think a made a little kiln is driveway with bricks. Those Vegas people are nuts;-P

Ya, it's a very impressive shop-made tool.


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## jmartel

Depending on what time of year in vegas, he could have just laid it out on the driveway in the sun and it would have heated up enough to not need a kiln. Man it gets hot there.


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## UpstateNYdude

I know this is supposed to be an American hand tool forum, but I hold most of you in high regards as to suggestions for your tools because you like higher end and higher quality tools. That being said, what is a good Japanese dovetail saw for cross cutting and ripping, I already have a nice Ryoba and I'm not a huge fan of western style saws, but I'm looking at the Mitsukawa Dozuki's from hidatool.com anyone have any experience with them?


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## bobasaurus

I think any dozuki would work well. I have the small "japanese rip dozuki" from lee valley and it works great.


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## UpstateNYdude

Well that's not entirely true, I had one dozuki that was garbage and broke almost half the teeth on a simple cut through SYP. I have an ok one now, but it feels as if its dull already and I've barely cut anything with it. My friend has one and has been using the same blade for about 2 years and still cuts like a hot knife through butter even in maple. He got his from a one man shop from Japan that apparently no longer is filling orders.


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## WillliamMSP

No opinion, no hands-on, but the Samurai Woodworker (? a youtube dude) made a good point about the high-end Japanese saws - you can get them sharpened, but the only people really qualified to do so are going to be in Japan. He said that the cost of sharpening and shipping is about the same as getting a new saw. If that's accurate, it makes that category of saw considerably less attractive to me.


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## bobasaurus

That's interesting Nick. I have a couple from Gyokucho and they work really well, never had teeth break and they seem to stay sharp indefinitely. I've heard some people have trouble with z-saw teeth being brittle. There are some japanese saws made specifically for dense western hardwoods.


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## WillliamMSP

> I have a couple from Gyokucho and they work really well, never had teeth break and they seem to stay sharp indefinitely. I ve heard some people have trouble with z-saw teeth being brittle.
> 
> - bobasaurus


I've heard multiple similar reports re: Gyochucho (Razorsaw) vs Z-saw. My Z-saw didn't last very long, but that's because I'm an idiot and I kinked it while getting used to the pull stroke.


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## jmartel

> No opinion, no hands-on, but the Samurai Woodworker (? a youtube dude) made a good point about the high-end Japanese saws - you can get them sharpened, but the only people really qualified to do so are going to be in Japan. He said that the cost of sharpening and shipping is about the same as getting a new saw. If that s accurate, it makes that category of saw considerably less attractive to me.
> 
> - WillliamMSP


Or you can get ones that have replaceable blades. Use them till they dull, then replace.

I'm not a huge fan of Japanese saws, but I don't think I've tried a nice one yet.


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## WillliamMSP

> Or you can get ones that have replaceable blades. Use them till they dull, then replace.
> 
> - jmartel


Exactly. When I say, "that category of saw," I'm not talking about Japanese saws in general, but about the higher-end, bespoke Japanese saws, not the more common saws with impulse-hardened teeth and easily replaceable blades.


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## terryR

My only Japanese saw is a Bridge City Tools Js-7 with replaceable blade.(cross and rip cuts) Have had ONE tooth break in four years of sporadic use. Could be my fault? Still cuts like a dream! And I would highly recommend it despite the induction hardened teeth.


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## mramseyISU

I've had some issues with a Dozuki saw I picked a couple years ago. I broke 3 or 4 teeth in it pretty quickly sawing through some white oak, I started buying western saws after that for the most part.


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## ADN

Some great Japanese saws out there, very easy to use, but sharpening can be an issue.

However my biggest problem with them is that when cutting, dovetails for example, the waste and splinters are coming out covering my cut line and messing up my fine show surface ;-)

Love them for flush cutting and in hard to reach places.


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## BigRedKnothead

Nick- Ya I have second thoughts about the "North American" parts of the forum at times. Woodworking has lead to to support American company's whenever I can. (I'm still mourning the loss of Pony clamps). But if we don't have an American option??? How about a place where we can geek out about quality hand tools without being called a snob?;-P

I digress. I like both Western and Japanese saws….and use them both. And, the really good furniture makers I've studied…use them both. If I have a really fine joinery cut on a piece of lumber that I CANNOT jack up….you know what I reach for. Little slower, but more control.

That said, I've never seen one who paid that much (Mitsukawa) for a Japanese saw. Guys like David Barron are very happy with Gyokucko and the like. Nice saws that last a long time…. just swap out the blade when needed.

Japanese chisels are probably more of a "get what ya pay for" story.


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## BigRedKnothead

> However my biggest problem with them is that when cutting, dovetails for example, the waste and splinters are coming out covering my cut line and messing up my fine show surface ;-)
> 
> - ADN


Interesting. They're so fine toothed that I've never had this problem. Plus, I end up planing DTs anyway.


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## woodcox

My shims draw attention away from the eastern swarf. Maybe poke around giantcypress.net, I seem to remember some good info there on Japanese saws. Ima try western tails and eastern pins for a goof. I get to the line easier now with western saws. I have had just cheap ryobas, Vaughan brand made in Japan. Teeth are not hard and they last. I have a couple handle styles and multiple types of blades, though none backed. Well, one is but it was a bad epoxy and maple test. I'm still training and buying western saws but I too want to play with a real deal eastern saw.


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## jobewan

Hey Folks,

There is a certain irony that we pay all this money for these Japanese tools, and the blade is replaceable. The blade is 98% of the cost on these saws, so buying a "permanent" handle and replacing the blade is akin to buying a steering wheel and replacing the attached car every 5 years. I believe most of the "disposable" saws are lower end. If you want the benefit of these tools then buy the best you can. The saws in particular are amazing - I own lots of western saws; the Veritas set of back saws, a Bad Axe, and a couple of nice old Disston brass splined backsaws. All wonderful tools, however I own a Hishika Dozuki and have had it for more than 10 years and it, unlike me, still has all its teeth. It cuts all but the hardest maple or purpleheart like butter. I am sensitive not to use it where there is a chance for the teeth to break. You do need to practice with them. Their lack of heft means following the line is a little more demanding, but you can get accomplished with them pretty quickly. I don't bow to the rising sun every morning, I am a firm believer in western technology and feel that many western tools kick their far eastern counterparts behinds, but for certain Japanese hand tools, there are benefits that I think are worth the cost. Just my $.02

Joe


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## rad457

For a fine, thin kerf cut just use a Zona saw, blades can be replaced or switched from push to pull stroke as required.


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## WillliamMSP

> The blade is 98% of the cost on these saws, so buying a "permanent" handle and replacing the blade is akin to buying a steering wheel and replacing the attached car every 5 years.
> 
> - jobewan


That's a horrible analogy.


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## BigRedKnothead

^lol. Easy Bill. I see what he means. I didn't realize the replaceable blades cost so much….cause I've never had replace one.

I will say, I've thought about putting a western handle on my dozuki. The straight-wrist action wears on me.


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## ColonelTravis

It's a GREAT analogy if you ever owned a 2001 Kia Rio!


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## CL810

^LOL!


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## WillliamMSP

> It s a GREAT analogy if you ever owned a 2001 Kia Rio!
> 
> - ColonelTravis


But he said a car… :?


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## UpstateNYdude

> ^lol. Easy Bill. I see what he means. I didn t realize the replaceable blades cost so much….cause I ve never had replace one.
> 
> I will say, I ve thought about putting a western handle on my dozuki. The straight-wrist action wears on me.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I've had my Ryoba for a few years now and it is as sharp as the day I got it still and I use it all the time. I paid around $75 for it and the replacement blade is still only $27.50 and coming from a person who has no idea how to sharpen a saw plate I'll gladly pay the $30+ or whatever to not wreck a working saw and get back to work.

As for the handles I dunno I feel more comfortable with the straight handles, it's easier for me to keep my arm in alignment when I can put part of my wrist near to the handle.


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## BigRedKnothead

Ya, the body position makes a difference on sawing. My joinery bench/moxon is belly button height - good for western sawing. Japanese woodworker often work on the floor, so that my be more ergonomic.


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## KentInOttawa

This video comparing western saws to japanese saws is one of the better ones that I've seen. Granted, he's trying to promote HIS saws (http://www.glen-drake.com/Joinery-Saws/), but he does present some interesting food for thought.




View on YouTube


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## DLK

I agree it was an interesting video. I wonder how well his saws work, when compared to traditional saws. How difficult will it be to sharpen his saws if the can be sharpened.


----------



## Mosquito

his saws fix some things that I don't have issues with, basically. I tried them at a LN event, and I won't be buying one myself. I'm not much of a fan of a pull-saw, so that's something to consider in my opinion.

I didn't find any of the improvements he advertises to be solving any issues that I had. Sure it's a nice saw, but it certainly didn't give me any eye opening moments when trying it out.

Again, not a fan of pull saws to begin with, so take that with a grain of salt I guess.


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## KentInOttawa

> I agree it was an interesting video. I wonder how well his saws work, when compared to traditional saws. How difficult will it be to sharpen his saws if the can be sharpened.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Unfortunately, it's not something that I can afford in the the foreseeable future. If anyone has tried one, please let us know.

Between this and his other video, I was able to pick up some good info that I already knew, but just hadn't quite put into context,. Things like the sound and feel of rip sawing with and against the grain. It's just like planing a miter. Duh!


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## BigRedKnothead

> I agree it was an interesting video. I wonder how well his saws work, when compared to traditional saws. How difficult will it be to sharpen his saws if the can be sharpened.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I've got a Glen Drake saw. The stoke is kinda goofy with no teeth on each end. Can't say I reach for it too much. It's not a fine cut saw to me, so an all hand-tooler might use it more.

The replaceable GD blades can be sharpened. I sent mine to Glen once. Think he charged $10.

All those LN planes swingin by their knobs gives me the willies.


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## DLK

Thanks. It was more of a curiosity, then should I buy one question. I think I have enough saws. Including one Japanese that I only use for flush trimming doweling etc. Doesn't see much action. I much prefer a sharp western saw.


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## ColonelTravis

I've got a fever for end grain.










And the only cure is more LA jack.










I may be the last person on the continent who's bought one of these things, but I finally got one. First non-vintage bench plane I've ever bought. I know everyone is impressed by how well modern planes are made, but after having used nothing but vintage benchers (which I love and will always use) and then looking at this up close, I actually laughed out loud, did a real LOL from being flabbergasted at the exactness and finish. Man, they know what they are doing.

Onto the garage!


----------



## ColonelTravis

After some brief testing, I fully understand now when people talked about problems with tear out (not always, but that it can happen.) But in an area of tear out I just turned the board around and went the other way - tear out gone as fast as it came!

So, no, it's not a be-all-end-all plane. Not that I was expecting one. I got this for end grain and taking down crazy grain wood. I am so impressed by how effortless it is when used for those jobs, compared to what I used to use (LA block, regular bench). Absolute joy to use on end grain, man that stuff would give me fits.


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## ADN

CT:

Just picked one up myself, ordered it a few days ago, LN sent an email saying it was back ordered for at least 2 weeks, next day they send me shipping info with tracking #.

Don't really need one, just always wanted one…it's a fine plane

Andy


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## BigRedKnothead

Congrats Colonel. LN lives up to the hype. Bet you've never seen an adjustable mouth machined that flawlessly before;-)


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## bobasaurus

Christopher Walken would approve. I've planed entire end grain cutting boards flat with mine (LV version).


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## ColonelTravis

You bet, Red. Metalworking people are impressive.

Congrats, Andy. I got the tracking number the same day I ordered mine but on the phone they told me they had to get more in and that it would take about a week before more came in. I checked that tracking number every day to see if they had sent it, but it did, in fact, take an extra week. Hope you get yours sooner than later.


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## TheFridge

Finally reordered LN 7. Was on back order in the spring and I ended up getting some other stuff. Figured that and an a RH edge plane would go well together.

Think it's about time for a family shot when it comes in.


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## ADN

My real purchase was a LN # 8, I say real for 2 reasons, it costs more than some jointer machines, and it's a plane I sort of need. Then a Christmas gift card sealed the deal, but of course it's back ordered, with no estimated ETA.

Have a very good Stanley # 7 with a Hock blade, but it sees a lot of use these days on my longrain shooting board and hate having to reset the plane when working a project that requires it do double duty.

Plus I use to have a very good Stanley Badrock #8 and wanted to replace it, so buying a LN, which will last several lifetimes is a suitable replacement….


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## bearkatwood

Just got a post for the new Bridge City chop stick maker. Any takers for that gem? LOL


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## bigblockyeti

That helps explain why the local Chinese take out joint has gotten so expensive!


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## bearkatwood

No kidding. Boutique Chinese food.


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## UpstateNYdude

Anyone used one of the Glen Drake chisel hammers? Looking for a replacement from using an Estwing mallet, was looking at the steel 11 or 14oz for my Jap chisels.


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## Miataguy

> I ve got a fever for end grain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the only cure is more LA jack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I may be the last person on the continent who s bought one of these things, but I finally got one. First non-vintage bench plane I ve ever bought. I know everyone is impressed by how well modern planes are made, but after having used nothing but vintage benchers (which I love and will always use) and then looking at this up close, I actually laughed out loud, did a real LOL from being flabbergasted at the exactness and finish. Man, they know what they are doing.
> 
> Onto the garage!
> 
> - ColonelTravis


I don't own one….yet….methinks I will in the future!


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## ADN

Got mine yesterday along with a new bow frame saw with the Japanese "turbo" blade, and these:










Narex rasps, have to say they are fantastic for the price, very useable tools, and the handles are fine….

Andy


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## ColonelTravis

Sweet additions to an already good looking cabinet, Andy.


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## TheFridge

Can't beat the Narex for the price.

Finally got to use it. For a minute or two.


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## ADN

After getting My 51 for Christmas, it made me kick myself for not getting one sooner…

Enjoy


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## ADN

> Sweet additions to an already good looking cabinet, Andy.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Thanks CT, that's my Frankenchest, made with a hand me down TV cabinet…


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## ColonelTravis

Fridge with some hot 51 action! I'm making a couple shooting boards right now for my LA jack. One is for wide miters like this. It takes up more storage space but I prefer this over the donkey ear.










Pic is not mine, it's from Shannon Rogers (Renaissance WW). But mine kinda looks like that. Don W made one, a few others around here have one like it.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Oh, and here I thought you'd replaced your LN with an LV after only a week. 

Once I finish the bench (possibly over the long weekend, but more likely next weekend), a couple shooting boards will be on the top of the build list for me, too.


----------



## bearkatwood

I just got the coolest tool in my shop delivered today. It is my new drawknife from Bobasaurus. It has redheart handles with copper ferrules. The base metal is 1080 steel and then a bicycle chain is hand forged atop to give it this amazing dragon scale look. There is a slight downward bend to the blade that feels so good to hold. I can't wait to test this out on my next project. Thank you Allen for this amazing tool. You are an excellent craftsmen and I am very lucky to have something so beautiful in my shop.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Man that is awesome!


----------



## AgentTwitch

Nice job, Allen! That looks awesome! Cant wait to see what you make with your one of a kind drawknife, Brian


----------



## bobasaurus

I'm glad you got it safely, Brian. I was watching the tracking today to make sure. I hope it will serve you well, it was hard to let go.

Here is a photo of the two drawknives I forged:










Brian now has the top one, while I have the bottom. We're tool blood brothers. Here are some more detail photos:




























In exchange, Brian made me this incredible 13 ppi carcass/tenon rip saw:










I'll get a project post up soon about it.


----------



## bearkatwood

I bet it was hard to let go of, it is beautiful. Can't wait to take it for a test run.


----------



## bobasaurus

It was worth it for your fine saw, Brian. Thanks for trading with me. Barter system is alive and well with us.

Here is the project post for the drawknives:


----------



## summerfi

Man, that drawknife is beautiful, as is the saw. American made tools is one thing, but LJ made tools are really something special. Congrats to you both for a fantastic job.


----------



## bearkatwood

Thank you very much Bob.


----------



## ADN

Gotta love custom woodworking tools, they look great…..

Here's my contribution for the day, it's my new fold up design table, right in the corner of the hand tool shop.

Need to make some decent legs and some sort of catch on the wall to hold it in place when folded up.

Now I'm almost ready to design some new projects ;-0


----------



## theoldfart

^ can I have your saw bench?


----------



## TheFridge

Shoot. I want that panel gauge.


----------



## theoldfart

Already got one a dem, his saw bench looks better 'n mine.


----------



## ADN

Thanks guys, the panel gauge is one I made, wanted a Hamilton but didn't want to pay $$$ so stated making my own

. The pencil end is finished, but wanted a knife or wheel cutter on the other end mounted with a brass fitting of some sort….

Think I may have a solution, and believe I will use one of Rob Cosman's large diameter marking gauge wheels.
Will post a couple pictures tomorrow…..

Andy


----------



## TheFridge

Sweet.

Yeah it's about time I made my own.

Super jelly of the homemade tooling.


----------



## ADN

My panel gauge build, not quite finished has the pencil holder, but not the cutting end.

The beam is Cuban Mahogany and the head is Spanish Cedar with inlaid brass.


----------



## TheFridge

Nice. I needs one in my life.

Got some kind of rosewood from a friend. Time for some chisel handles.

I bored a 5/8 hole and use 5/8 brass rod stock to balance it better. Put a dap of epoxy to hold it in place.


----------



## ADN

That is nice,love the dark color….. wish I had some to do an old set of Swans


----------



## TheFridge

Let me know how many and what size you need per blank and how many.

I'll see what I can do.


----------



## ADN

Fridge:

Wasn't soliciting, Rosewood of any type is rare these days….Maybe I could trade you something in return?

Best Regards,
Andy


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Andy, I have an unfortunate love affair with cocobolo. This dude has been my source. He's on ebay, but you'll get the best deal if you email or call. Never been disappointed with what he's sent me: 
https://www.diamondtropicalhardwoods.com/

My cocobolo saws (wood from diamond). Should get a pic now that the coco has aged:


----------



## JADobson

Dang, bob makes nice saws. I'm just sitting here drooling.


----------



## TheFridge

Andy, I love horse trading. Plus the dude has a crapload of it. He's already given me some, ebony, cocobolo, amboyna burl, 12/4 figured walnut chunks, and a bunch of tools and a couple machines. Very nice guy.

He originally bought it because it was supposed to be cocobolo but they were mistaken. He cut it into blanks to sell it but hasn't retired yet so it's just sitting. Pretty sure he's willing to sell some.

But if you wanted to trade for some and you can give me an idea of what you need then whenever i use my stock up he will give me some more.

I will gladly try to score some for free but I don't want him to think that I'm taking advantage of him and would tell him before I gave any away.


----------



## bearkatwood

Bob, those are amazing!! Beautiful work sir. I love the colors in those. I have your laser guy doing some plates for me right now, can't wait to see how they turn out. My logo isn't quite as great as yours, but they might look nice. 
Just beautiful saws.


----------



## TheFridge

Just gonna leave this here  not the best pic 









LN 4-1/2 w 55 deg frog vs crotch walnut. The sister to my saw handle.


----------



## bearkatwood

Awesome stuff tonight!!


----------



## summerfi

OK guys, send those saws back. They're too nice for you.

Thanks Brian. I'm glad the laser guy is helping you out. He does nice work, and I think his prices are very reasonable.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

Fridge. Broski. I need some handles.


----------



## TheFridge

Gimme a hollers. I still owe you.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

Bob & Brian,,, you are gonna have to start making the handles out of Yellow pine so you can get some sharpening work.! Or get into making some kind of unique wall brackets to sell for their saws. 
I have oddles of walnut in the shop, but it seems like cornbread compared to the figure in those handles


----------



## ColonelTravis

Fridge I've got several hunks of that walnut that look exactly like yours. I'm guessing that's the HA frog. Do you have a scraper plane? I've tried the Stanley 80 but never liked that thing. I've never used the LN or Veritas scraper plane, I don't want to pull the trigger on one yet because of that. I'd like to test it out first. People seem to love it or get really frustrated with it.


----------



## TheFridge

Yes it is. I only have card scrapers. I could plane against the grain but while smooth it's not glass smooth. I'm assuming it's from the grain pulling up a hair without tearing out. A card scraper cures that for me.


----------



## mramseyISU

I just dropped a down-payment on a new Bad Axe 12" carcase saw last night. Went with the copper plated back, cherry tote and gun blued saw nuts. It'll match my dovetail saw I bought from this about this time last year and be here right around my birthday.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Bueno. I dig the look of copper backs.

Nice little arrival from our friend at BearKat Wood. 









Wish I would have had this scraper last year for those dining chairs. Comes with a nice burr.


----------



## bearkatwood

Hey cool, you got it. Enjoy Red.


----------



## TheFridge

Bad axe? Nice.

More goodies and I'm done for awhile.


----------



## ADN

Is that a # 8? Ordered one in December and they won't even give an est on ship date….


----------



## TheFridge

It's a 7.


----------



## mramseyISU

A LN number 7 is the first nice plane I ever bought. It gets used on just about every project I do. It doesn't matter if I use power tools on it or not you can't beat the surface finish of a good sharp hand plane with machines.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Tis a beautiful thing Fridge. LN no 4 1/2 or 7….between those for my fav plane. Both changed the way I work the wood.

Yep Brian, got em. You should charge more for the quality of this stuff.


----------



## bearkatwood

Thanks Red, I hear that a lot with my saws too. I want to make my stuff accessible to woodworkers and most of us don't make big bank. That and I feel guilty about charging a bunch for my stuff, they do work good though. I use mine every day. The last video I posted I showed them, that is just about all I use for finish work, with a quick wipe down of 320 grit before finish.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

Ordered 3/8" and 3/4" butt chisels from Blue Spruce today.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Cant wait to hear what you think about the Blue Spruce Chisels, Bulldog. They sure look nice


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Who would want anything from Blue Spruce? That stuff's ugly…..


----------



## bearkatwood

I know, right? Just hideous.


----------



## rtbrmb

" American made tools is one thing, but LJ made tools are really something special. " 
Bob in post #1701.

Indeed-my new table saw arrived today-incredible.


----------



## bearkatwood

Very nice work Bob.


----------



## ADN

Gorgeous work Bob….


----------



## summerfi

Thanks guys.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Brian, this Bearkat scraper probably has the best/longest lasting burr I've ever used. Show us your method if you get some time.


----------



## bearkatwood

Secret herbs and spices my friend. I was picky about the steel when I had them produced. Glad it is working for you. Sharpen it like you would normally and if it seems different I will make a video on how I do it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

interesting….. secret ju-ju steel. Got it;P


----------



## bearkatwood

tempered 1095 with a hint of tarragon


----------



## ColonelTravis

Bob and Brian - your saws are among the best of anyone making them today.


----------



## bearkatwood

Thank you, but I am light years behind Bob, Lie-Nielsen, skelton, Wenzloff etc..  but I thank you very much.


----------



## summerfi

Thanks Colonel, much appreciated. There's a lot to be said for trick photography. ;>)


----------



## bobasaurus

Brian was kind enough to send one of his scrapers along with the fancy saw in our swap. It looks really useful, I'll have to give it a go on my next project. I have a rectangular scraper I've used for ages that I etched my logo onto. It came in a set with some curved ones, but they're annoying to sharpen so I've always stuck to the basic rectangle. But the curve would be pretty useful in some situations.


----------



## bearkatwood

I have a trick that I will show about sharpening the curves as I use them a lot and have developed some short cuts. I will try to put together a short video soon.
Bob, I am sure it is just hollywood lighting that makes your saws that beautiful. LOL!!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Because an awl that looks this good just works better









I made it with a kit from http://www.czeckedge.com/

His website's been half functional for a couple years now. I think he's still in business? Makes some nice stuff.


----------



## bobasaurus

I remember them being at the last Handworks. Now I want to make some awls…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Allen, I was thinking it'd be easy for guys like you to make one. The steel is just under 3/16". Prolly O1.


----------



## rad457

Good looking Awl, almost as nice as a Kiefer original!


----------



## ADN

Added a new bow saw with the Tubro, Turbo , Turbo blade, it really is a nice blade, the saw is made in Germany, but not a bad saw at all.

However went to order a Lovejoy spokeshave and wow they have some nice bow saws?...

http://www.woodjoytools.com/bowsaws


----------



## TheFridge

Christmas goodies ready to work.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ That 51 gives me the jeebies leaning like that.

Added woodjoytools Andy. Good stuff.


----------



## ShaneA

Czech edge definitely still in business. I had bought a couple of the bird cage awl kits a few years ago for one of the swaps. Then I was going to make some more for an upcoming swap befor I realized I was too lazy. I couldn't find them on his site, so I emailed him. He got right back with me, and set me up. The performance on those bird cage awls is pretty nice


----------



## TheFridge

It has some tabs securing it so that it has to be lifted. They all have to be lifted up to pull the bottom out. I've had too many close calls without.


----------



## ADN

Red:

You should also add:

http://www.lazarushandplane.com/

He was at the last Lie-Nielsen show, his new stuff is amazing and not priced out of this world

He made this plane a long time ago, I call it Lazarus (I'm very creative)


----------



## ColonelTravis

this email made my day


----------



## bobasaurus

Lazarus makes some great stuff, I would love to try one someday.


----------



## mramseyISU

> this email made my day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - ColonelTravis


You're going to like that plane. Mine works wonders.


----------



## WillliamMSP

I was really tempted by the Onetime Woodpecker square that Woodcraft and Highland sent out an email on -










...but I'm an impatient man, and even though $50 seems like a very reasonable price, I just don't like the "pay now, get it in 4 months" kind of deal. One of yous should totally get one, though. Better yet, buy two so you can sell one to me when you finally get your mitts on 'em.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Man I wish they had a showroom, they're literally 4.5 miles from my house.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Cutting overhead like a storefront is how they keep their prices low.


----------



## theoldfart

"Low"? Really?


----------



## CL810

If low, hard to imagine if they were high.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> I was really tempted by the Onetime Woodpecker square that Woodcraft and Highland sent out an email on -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...but I m an impatient man, and even though $50 seems like a very reasonable price, I just don t like the "pay now, get it in 4 months" kind of deal. One of yous should totally get one, though. Better yet, buy two so you can sell one to me when you finally get your mitts on em.
> 
> - WillliamMSP


I bought one of their 18" precision triangles last year. The thing is fantastic looking, but I have no clue what I'll use it on. It's huge. I imagine it would be really handy if I built any cabinets.


----------



## mramseyISU

> I was really tempted by the Onetime Woodpecker square that Woodcraft and Highland sent out an email on -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...but I m an impatient man, and even though $50 seems like a very reasonable price, I just don t like the "pay now, get it in 4 months" kind of deal. One of yous should totally get one, though. Better yet, buy two so you can sell one to me when you finally get your mitts on em.
> 
> - WillliamMSP


My Woodpeckers stuff has been hit or miss on being square. I've got one of their speed squares and it's dead on, I've also got one of their 12" squares and it isn't as square as my cheap Empire combo square. I know they'd fix it if I sent it in, I just haven't yet.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> "Low"? Really?
> 
> - theoldfart


Maybe that comment was a bit too facetious ;-)


----------



## WhoMe

I met saw that square in an email from woodpeckers. I have been tempted ona couple other tools room them but this one is really tempting. It's size looks really useful.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I feel convicted.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

Package from Blue Spruce arrived today. 3/8" and 3/4" acrylic infused spalted maple butt chisels. Took out the whole BS family for the photo.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Bueno. Love me some butt chisels. Great for dovetailing. Not so much leverage swinging in the air when you're chopping to a line. I plan on a close look at BS chisels when I go to handworks.

I'm gonna sell my Glen Drake saw I was blabbing about earlier. I just reach for the Japanese saws all the times I would use it. Recently sharpened by Glen. $100 shipped. PM if you're interested.


----------



## ColonelTravis

On another forum, Derek Cohen posted a photo of the upcoming Veritas large plow in relation to the small one. It's not the final version, just one he's gotten to use. It is bigger, but it's not as big as I thought it would be. At the same time, if it were really huge I don't know what the point would be.


----------



## JADobson

Do we know if it will have any added capability (moulding blades or something) that the small plow plane doesn't have?


----------



## TheFridge

Need to countersink to screws and put CA in the tapped holes and she done.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Good question, James, no clue. You would think so, otherwise it's just like the small one but bigger. I've already got the small one so who cares about a bigger one that does the same things?

Fridge - beauty. More pics when you're done.


----------



## ADN

James, COL T:

According to Mr. Lee it can also use the Stanley 45/55 blades….

Fridge: that's outstanding, want to see your design for the cutter and holder…..need to copy it I'm sure ;-)

Andy


----------



## TheFridge

Not much to it. I cut a slot same width and half the thickness of the blade on the end of the beam. I cut the blade out of a hss planer knife. HSS is a biotch to work. Just need to countersink the end screws to pretty it up. Might still inlay some 1/2"x 1/8" brass to help with wear.


----------



## ColonelTravis

well done Fridge, thanks.

Did this with a LA jack, to be expected, no worries, it was on purpose.










Wanted to see what my new 4 1/2 55 degree frog would do to it.




























Actually, I still need to clean it up with a card scraper but man I'm glad I got this thing.


----------



## bobasaurus

Nice job. How close is your chipbreaker and how tight is the mouth?


----------



## ColonelTravis

Chipbreaker - Before looking, I guessed 1/32" back but they sneak it up a little closer than that. I didn't change it as it came.










The frog arrived way back, maybe to make extra sure the blade doesn't get damaged. I had to move it up a bit, honestly it was just arbitrary, I haven't tried different openings. I didn't measure the opening I have now but it's at least 1/16" or a little more.


----------



## bobasaurus

Thanks, I've always thought the chipbreaker setting was more important than the mouth opening. What do you hone the iron with?


----------



## bobasaurus

I have an old LN 4 1/2 I bought used with the standard 45 deg frog. It still smooths great if I'm careful with setup. I've done curly maple with it no problem.

It has the older style chipbreaker but seems to work fine.


----------



## ColonelTravis

55 degree frog is definitely more stubborn. What I love about the LN and Veritas LA planes is you can finagle the mouth so easily. I adjust my LA jack all the time, vs., say, my Millers Falls smoother, which I never touch but probably should. Is there a reason every bench plane is not like the new low angles? Cost? Guess you don't really need to with a 5. I've had to move the frogs around in a 6 and 8.

In general, I only use 2 stones: Shapton Pro 1K and Japanese Something-yama 8K. LN and Hock sharpen their blades so well, whenever I get a new one I touch up the back and that's all. I didn't smooth the back yet on this blade.


----------



## 8iowa

Have you included Mark Harrell's Bad Axe saws?

Mark makes his saws in Wisconsin and hires & trains veterans.


----------



## ADN

Really like the LN 4 1/2 mine has a 45 deg frog but I really like heavy metal planes, just think they work better the heavier they are..and I'm not comparing them to wood planes, whole different ballgame.

Don't think Bad axe is listed yet, neither is Rob Cosman, another great tool producer, and great veteran supporter…


----------



## ADN

Use only 2 stones myself now for plane sharpening, a 1000 diamond and a 16000 Shapton…

Here is what had my time today, so pretty Im thinking about hanging it as art work, but will tear out if you hold you're mouth wrong.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

True dat Colonal. The 55 degree frog is tougher to push, but wax helps a lot. The wax Craftsmanstudio.com tosses in with their plane sales is still my fav.

Bad Axe is a solid add to the list. Not sure my convictions will let me add carnival barker Cosman with his Wood River endorsements…..lol.

LN gets knocked for their blades not fitting vintage tools. Their beading cutters do….and they are sublime.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Beautiful board.


----------



## CL810

Visual overload ADN. The plane, wood, bench, shavings ….


----------



## CL810

I say add him Red. The Woodriver planes are rock solid value planes. The price is for a plane that still needs some fine tuning. But they are easy enough to tune up and then they are very good planes.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Seriously though. does Cosman make tools? Or does he just have the list of tools he's paid to endorse?


----------



## ColonelTravis

Red - please explain what's going on in that bead photo. Did you freehand that thing?!


----------



## jmartel

> I say add him Red. The Woodriver planes are rock solid value planes. The price is for a plane that still needs some fine tuning. But they are easy enough to tune up and then they are very good planes.
> 
> - CL810


Not North American tools though. They are Chinese made. So, not really for this thread.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Cosman makes his own dovetail saw, a marking knife and maybe a few other things. They're made in Canada. Design of the saw blade is intriguing, I've wanted to try one. It's got two teeth sizes - very fine at the tip to start off and then normal for the finish. It's also apparently heavier than a typical one to help gravity take it through the wood. Do not like his handle, it's resin not wood.


----------



## ADN

Cosman makes tools, his hand saws are very fine, in fact his crosscut saw is most likely the best on the market…..and that endorsement came from Frank Klausz, I tend to agree, just don't have the same notoriety;-)

His saw blades are hand made and hand filed in Japan, not punch cut, then sent to him for the build. His marking gauges are outstanding…

Don't recall what all he makes….

Andy


----------



## ADN

One can buy a wood handle version, but no plain wood is used, they also get resin, and brass weights in the handle and they are $$$

Have a few of his saws, have some other high end saws also, and some old dovetail saws that are considered very premium, always reaching for one of his….and the crosscut is phenomenal, no need to plane an end after cutting, it cuts that smooth!

Andy


----------



## ColonelTravis

Ah, OK, so you can get a wood handle. Good to know.

He put thought into that marking knife, even though there's not much to one to begin with, but I was watching him explain its design in one of his videos and thought - man, that was smart.

Some of the early Cosman DVDs are kind of funny and awkward, but the more I've watched him on the YT channel, the more I like him. He brings up wounded vets to take his classes for free every year, and just listening to him over time he sounds like a quality guy.


----------



## TheFridge

Gratuitous walnut. 








This is what happens shortly after you give a 3 year old a jury box.

Edit: I like to hear that about a crosscut. I want a fine crosscut for small moldings and joinery like that.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Man you've got a wood ICU going on there.


----------



## CL810

I was saying add him, not wood river.



> Not North American tools though. They are Chinese made. So, not really for this thread.
> 
> - jmartel


----------



## ADN

Fridge:

Like your finished gauge, it reminds me of a Hamilton Toolworks one, Hamilton has the finest panel gauges in the world…

http://www.hamiltontools.com/hamilton-panel-gauge-1/

but just could not see paying that much for a panel gauge. Want to add an end on mine something like they use on theirs, but I'm sure it's CNC machined…

On the crosscut saw, I've yet to find one that cuts as smooth as Rob's, it's really that good…

In fact Hamilton Tool Works should also be added to the list….


----------



## woodcox

It's late adn. Quit it with that stuff. I seemed to remember them being a lot more. Hamilton is so nice. Maybe for just the one I liked I actually have one of his irons coming for my project.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks man. No lie adn. Them things are fine. I might have to rework the body. The brass angle is an awesome idea. I think I have full blown panel gauge jealousy now.

I might be able to mill that head on my drill press. Looks fairly straight forward. Or so I think.

Gonna have to check the Cosman saw out.

Col, as with most things in woodworking. Sometimes. You just have to learn the hard way before it sticks.


----------



## ADN

Oh, forgot to say, have one of these on order….

http://www.voigtplanes.com

Regards 
Andy


----------



## WillliamMSP

FYI for those that don't visit the Hot Deals thread - LV has their free shipping (over $40) going on now through 2/21.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> FYI for those that don t visit the Hot Deals thread - LV has their free shipping (over $40) going on now through 2/21.
> 
> - WillliamMSP


Of course they do I just ordered a friggin spokeshave from them yesterday M%#%$^$&$*er!


----------



## WillliamMSP

Lol - I'd call and see if they can credit it.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Lol - I d call and see if they can credit it.
> 
> - WillliamMSP


I actually just emailed them and they are crediting it back, that and I ordered their router plane too, saving that $20 on shipping made me pull the trigger…or at least that's what I'm telling my self.


----------



## ShaneA

Amazing how much saving $20 actually costs. lol, I subscribe to the same type of theory.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red - please explain what s going on in that bead photo. Did you freehand that thing?!
> 
> - ColonelTravis


No freehand. The beading tool has a fence set up like this:

I just set the tool aside in that first pic so it would fall.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

This is the Konrad Sauer presentation my tag line was taken from for those interested. 45 min long, better than anything else you'll see on tv this evening;-)





View on YouTube


----------



## waho6o9

Amazing video thanks Red.


----------



## bearkatwood

Konrad has a great eye and is by far one of the better craftsmen out there right now.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Amazing how much saving $20 actually costs. lol, I subscribe to the same type of theory.
> 
> - ShaneA


Now I just have to explain to my wife when they show up on our door how much I saved in shipping and that the planes were practically free. Wish I got out of work before her, then I'd only have to explain when she came out to the shop (which is almost never) and saw the new ones, I could just say "Yeah I've had that one awhile". I have to tell my neighbors to zip it when they see the freight truck pulling in to drop off a new machine.

Some day I'll actually get to use these tools for more than an hour or two at night when my kids go to bed…for now they get alot of rest and look pretty.


----------



## WillliamMSP

> then I d only have to explain when she came out to the shop (which is almost never) and saw the new ones, I could just say "Yeah I ve had that one awhile".
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


Hmmmm… that never worked for me with bikes, but I might have a chance with tools…


----------



## sepeck

I've been offline for a few months unfortunate, just now catching up but these are some awl making instructions I've had bookmarked to try for a while now.

http://lumberjocks.com/bondogaposis/blog/78202



> I remember them being at the last Handworks. Now I want to make some awls…
> 
> - bobasaurus


----------



## Mosquito

Good watch, thanks for sharing Red


----------



## JayT

Good video, Red. Several really good points in there. Wish more people would take them to heart.


----------



## CL810

Inspiring.


----------



## TheFridge

Countersink worked like a champ.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

Looks great Fridge


----------



## ADN

Fridge:

You inspired me to finish mine, although I made the adjustable cutter too long, but it works, so I'll use it as is for a while. Have to put the cutter back on the lathe to trim it down, the top is threaded and the acorn nut adjusts the blade depth…

Yours looks great,
Andy


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks fellas.

That thing is nice. Wondering how the adjustable cutter works?

Actually. Seeing your panel gauge is what inspired me to make one.

I tested milling some brass last night to make a Hamilton semi copy. Too much backlash for an end mill. Chuck and spindle kept popping out. Might try a router bit with lower take and higher speed. I can do it but as of now it'd take forever. Worst case I'll send a drawing to buddy who has a Bridgeport.

I really like the Hamilton setup though.


----------



## ADN

When its time to take it back apart will take some photos…

It's a square section with a blade on one end and the threads on the other. Fits in a square through mortise, and a brass plate holds the acorn nut in a shallow round mortise or countersink. Turn the acorn nut and the blade raises or lowers….

Andy


----------



## JayT

My most recent addition to the theme of the thread



Not gonna lie, it's heavily inspired by Konrad Sauer's designs and design philosophy.


----------



## woodcox

My Hamilton panel gauge blade arrived today. I almost used one of these for my swap item but plans changed. I have decided to try one for my gauge build. They are some crazy kryo hollow finger nail ground and polished goodness. 









I found a Stanley 85 1/2 head only and remade a beam in maple. The beam fits nice and tight but it racks a little in use. I am going to start over on a new gauge similar to my swap gauge. It's beam design solved that issue. I think I will reserve the Hamilton blade for the new project.


----------



## ADN

Jay-that's way beyond my capabilities, wow!

WC-really like the rosewood maple combination…..believe I would just redesign that one a bit.

Andy


----------



## rad457

This is what happens when Lee Valley has free delivery and someone pays you to build them something! 
What an amazing plane! The old Stanley 60 1/2 going to get some rest
The Canadian contribution.










Also picked this up, still trying to figure out if it will work for me? Do like my Water Stones!
The American part.


----------



## bearkatwood

JayT Not gonna lie, that things is awesome. Great looking toys you all are showing off.


----------



## AUswimKC

how does that Veritas Block Plane compare size-wise to the Stanley 60.5? Got any side-by-side comparison pics?


----------



## ColonelTravis

Ha - JayT didn't see that smoothy-smooth lookin smoother until now. Man oh man, what a plane.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

Andre, you are going to love the DX60.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice Andre. That stone looks sweet to me. I use oil stones. Wd-40 as a honing oil. The cut a bit slower than water, but not bad. I just scuff/flatten them every so often with a course diamond stone. Seems to knock of any hazing.

And, I really appreciate not having to deal with freezing and/or rust in my shop.


----------



## bearkatwood

I switched everything I had for sharpening over to large DMT diamond plates and I have not looked back. I can get great results. I wouldn't mind a 16k waterstone sometimes though.


----------



## JayT

Andy, Brian and ColT. Thanks for the compliments on the plane. I'm already working on the next iteration of the design, using the input from Mark Kornell. We'll see if I can streamline some processes and make others more accurate in order to have an even better final product. Keeping fingers crossed.

I've also gone to diamond plates for sharpening, EZ-Lap in my case, and have no regrets. No worries about water bath or oils getting on the bench. I give them a quick spritz of diluted Simple Green before using to help with the swarf, but have used them dry, as well. If my shop situation was different, then that might change preferences, but am very happy with the diamond. All the systems work if you use them correctly, though.


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah jayt that plane is a specimen.


----------



## rad457

> how does that Veritas Block Plane compare size-wise to the Stanley 60.5? Got any side-by-side comparison pics?
> 
> - AUswimKC


This is a side by side, Veritas DX60, Stanley 60 1/2 and a L.N. 60 Rabbit
Both the DX60 and my Stanley have the PMV-11 irons but cut and act so different, hard to explain?
DX60 is heavier but feels better in my hand, more balanced.









So, 2 Veritas, 3 Stanleys and 2 L.N. ! and still grab the L.N. 102 most of the time so far but the DX 60 is new.


----------



## AUswimKC

Hmm. I just might have to find one locally to try. I absolutely love my LN 60.5 which based on the Stanley. But I want a pmv11 blade for it (which based on the single large slot won't work). Thinking of upgrading to the Veritas DX instead. I have the LV low angle block, but it's way too big for my hand.


----------



## ADN

Hey guys:

Getting prepared to build a small infill smoother from an old kit I purchased, and need some appropriate wood to fill it with…it's brass body, brass cap, 47.5 deg, and was designed for use with a single Hock iron.

Anyone have anything dry and stable?

Thanks,
Andy


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Hey guys:
> 
> Getting prepared to build a small infill smoother from an old kit I purchased, and need some appropriate wood to fill it with…it s brass body, brass cap, 47.5 deg, and was designed for use with a single Hock iron.
> 
> Anyone have anything dry and stable?
> 
> Thanks,
> Andy
> 
> - ADN


How much and how big do you need? I have some Rosewood and some Bubinga and a long piece of Wenge.


----------



## JayT

Andy, depending on what size you need, you might check this thread

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/205842


----------



## UpstateNYdude

Been trying to find a few decent sized pieces of African Blackwood so I can do some new knob and totes for my LN planes myself, it's proving difficult as the pieces on eBay are either to thin, to short or the price is just ridiculous. No local supplier near me even carries it and I don't know where else to look as I'm not keen on buying wood I can't at least see a picture of before I buy it.


----------



## jmartel

Nick, are you looking for a jet black finish for the plane knobs/totes? Walnut with a black dye looks just like african blackwood and it will save you some cash.

Alternatively if you really want it, try woodbarter.com forums. I've had good luck with them, although I know Red hasn't had as good of luck there. I picked up a large flat rate box full of Ebony for like $60.


----------



## rad457

Andy/Nick, How about some Wenge, Black or some Vera, dark green? how big a piece you require?


----------



## ColonelTravis

You live near a Woodcraft? They sell blackwood in a size that I believe could be made into a knob. Not sure about blanks big enough for a tote.


----------



## TheFridge

I have some granadillo ADN.


----------



## ADN

Fridge:

I'm traveling home at the moment ( days actually) and don't have the kit in hand yet, but this build is the same kit….

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/89583

Not sure how I want to do the wood, so I'll get back with ya.

Thanks,
Andy


----------



## TheFridge

Sounds good. I'll see if I can get some pics.


----------



## rad457

> Andy/Nick, How about some Wenge, Black or some Vera, dark green? how big a piece you require?
> 
> - Andre


Oops, Vera gone I had made a 2" Krenov Smoother last year, but did come across a 8/4 plank of Goncalo Alves.
Also some Doussie.


----------



## ADN

Andre:

Goncalo would look good, have another old infill missing its front wood and haven't cleaned the tote yet so might need to get some of that….

Drop me a pm with some details,

Andy


> Andy/Nick, How about some Wenge, Black or some Vera, dark green? how big a piece you require?
> 
> - Andre
> 
> Oops, Vera gone I had made a 2" Krenov Smoother last year, but did come across a 8/4 plank of Goncalo Alves.
> Also some Doussie.
> 
> - Andre


----------



## ADN

Nick:

As said, also have some repairs to do, and have to get the kit in my hands, should be able to give an estimate tomorrow…

Thanks much for the offer,

Andy


----------



## ADN

Here is a photo of the style tote I'm leaning towards, since it's constructed in 3 sections that helps in wood selection. Would like the front knob to be a solid piece, but layered will work….

The picture is from a nice plane for sale on eBay


----------



## TheFridge

This is just what I have. I do have access to flat sawn chunks as well.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Trying to spread the hand tool love. Had my farmer buddy over last night to make a little speaker stand for his surround sound. Think I see some Lie Nielsen in his future










Turn out pretty good for his first project.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Other news, I know I've complained about the lack of N. American options for carving tools. I get mixed reviews on Ramelson's. Anyway, I landed some Auriou on the used market. They are much bigger than Pfeils. I find the Pfiels to be small for my big hands….so that's fine with me.










Interesting for some since we can't go to the local store and try these brands out.


----------



## rad457

Andy here is the Doussie and Goncalo Alves.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Anyone have ideas for jigs to thickness plane (by hand, of course) small and/or narrow and thin parts?


----------



## JayT

ColT, I'm still planning to copy this LJ made one


----------



## KentInOttawa

Colonel, Check out this Japanese one on The Woodwright's Shop, 2006-2007 Episodes, Japanese Planes With John Reed Fox. It starts at about 13:00 minutes in and is only a minute or two long. The plane and track that is shown on The Woodwright's Shop is a variation of the jig JayT mentioned.


----------



## ColonelTravis

awesome, will check those out. Thanks guys.


----------



## CL810

From David Barron's blog: ($22.04 USD)

http://www.thetoolworks.com.au/index.php?route=product/category&path=35_372


----------



## ColonelTravis

Just got a toothing blade for a LA jack - this thing works great. No tearout on anything I've tried yet and I can remove 1/8th of an inch from a board quickly with this thing (I don't have a power planer or jointer, so keep that in old school perspective.) So much better than using a regular blade and when you're planing diagonally across the grain you won't damage the sides like you can with a scrub plane. I make sure my boards have more width on them if using my scrub. But that's more for heavy duty removal.

I'd wondered if they worked well but had never tried one until the LN Hand Tool event last weekend here. After about 30 seconds I was sold and bought it. Highly recommended if you mill stuff by hand.

Better to be somewhat aggressive with the cut, otherwise it will clog with fine, dusty shavings fast.


----------



## ADN

Colonel:

For planing thin/narrow items my best small item holder is a long grain shooting board, for thin/wide pieces then its adjustable height stops….have several different kinds but use the Lee Valley adj height bench prairie dogs…

Andy


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I've got one….but I always forget to try it. Thanks for the reminder.


----------



## terryR

Nice.
Want.


----------



## CL810

Went to the LN Hand Tool Event at Braxton Brewing in Covington KY (across the river from Cincinnati). Had a hard time getting past this.










3 hour drive home kept me from drinking, so I got 12 of these to go.










4-1/2 with 50 degree frog and a rabbit block plane have been shipped and should arrive Tuesday. That 4-1/2 is a manly tool!

Next time there is an event, I'll plan on staying for the duration to listen to Deneb Puchalski more. Also saw Schwarz demonstrate Crucible's holdfast. Beastly tool for beastly work. Gramercy's holdfast will serve me well enough.

Now that is what I call a good day!


----------



## ColonelTravis

Awesome. Deneb was at yours? I'd like to meet him. Guy is a soothing and thorough explainer on youtube. They served no beer at mine last weekend. I did get a piece of cherry/jalapeno pie, which sounds odd but it is incredible.

Enjoy your new haul next week, love those two planes.


----------



## ToddJB

Did you get a chance to swing by Lost Art, Andy? You were likely only a few blocks away.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Andy. Made some chocolate curly's with mine today.










Have any fine tools that just collect dust? My LN mortise chisels do. Just not into chopping them by hand. Every so often the "Anarchist" purges things I don't use ….for things I think I will. Then the cycle repeats.


----------



## CL810

No, I didn't make it to LAP. I think it was closed with Chris being at the LN event


----------



## theoldfart

LAP will be open tomorrow according to their website.


----------



## AgentTwitch

I have the same set or LN mortise chisels that have been largely unused. Its a shame, really….


----------



## DLK

Do you guys know if protractor heads are interchangeable. I.e. can I put a Starette or Union protractor head on a Miller Falls, craftsman, or Johnson combination square ruler?


----------



## rad457

*3 hour drive home kept me from drinking, so I got 12 of these to go.*

That brings back memories, used to calculate road trips by how many beers we'd need?
Ah the good old days young and stupid!


----------



## DanKrager

Combo, if heads are interchangeable, it is a happy accident. There isn't any apparent "standard" for thickness or depth of groove. A thin blade is still 1" wide, but can wobble in the head, and of course, a thick blade well, I won't bait Stef here. I've tried a few and some work, some don't. Take pieces to check for fit.
DanK


----------



## DLK

Thanks Dan. Thats good to know before I buy a random one off e-bay.


----------



## TheFridge

Panel gauge V2.0 . Will probably be replaced by another if I can get a head made.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I have the same set or LN mortise chisels that have been largely unused. Its a shame, really….
> 
> - AgentTwitch


Ya, think I'm gonna sell mine. I'm sure there'll be something at Handworks I'll have to have instead;-)


----------



## terryR

I like it, Fridge.

Just completed a long marking gauge myself,


----------



## mramseyISU

> I have the same set or LN mortise chisels that have been largely unused. Its a shame, really….
> 
> - AgentTwitch
> 
> Ya, think I m gonna sell mine. I m sure there ll be something at Handworks I ll have to have instead;-)
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I've got one mortise chisel, one of the Ray Isles ones that TFWW sells that I picked up at Handworks two years ago. I've hardly used it until this weekend. I chopped 48 mortises with it this weekend and holy hell does my hand hurt today. After a weekend of that I'm really not all that impressed with it, the damn thing wouldn't hold an edge for more than two mortises tops. I could understand if I was banging it into some really hard wood but I don't think Cherry really falls into that category. The mortise were 2"L x 1/2" deep and I was hoping I could get a least 4 of those done before touching up the edge but it wasn't working.


----------



## HokieKen

> Do you guys know if protractor heads are interchangeable. I.e. can I put a Starette or Union protractor head on a Miller Falls, craftsman, or Johnson combination square ruler?
> 
> - Combo Prof


Just an FYI Don, Starrett and Brown and Sharpe play well with one another. Union, Millers Falls and old Craftsman stuff will fit with them but are slightly different sizes and are a little sloppier and don't always slide as easily like Dan K. said. I believe PEC blades are the same size as the Starretts and B&S combo blades but don't have any to verify.


----------



## bobasaurus

mramsey, I also bought a pair at the last handworks. Did you hone a steeper secondary bevel on them to help with edge retention? I find them kind of bulky and awkward to hold, but I've never tried other mortise chisels to compare.


----------



## DLK

Thanks Kenny. Specifically I was looking for a protractor head to put on a Miller Falls Blade.


----------



## mramseyISU

> mramsey, I also bought a pair at the last handworks. Did you hone a steeper secondary bevel on them to help with edge retention? I find them kind of bulky and awkward to hold, but I ve never tried other mortise chisels to compare.
> 
> - bobasaurus


I tried 25, 30 and 35 degree secondary bevels on it and didn't see drastically different results with any of the 3 I tried.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

Were you really wailing it or just medium taps? I thought I had to wail on mine in order to get good results, but I find I get better results and edge retention if I back off a little, that and everything comes out cleaner.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

Red, just curious do you still use a vintage no. 5 and did you swap out the blade and chipbreaker for a modern one or keep the original? Do you have more than one blade (one cambered one straight), I have a LN no.5 I got in a tool lot I just bought and I'm debating keeping it or selling it and using the money for something else. As I refurb old tools I have an abundance of no.5's already, I was just curious as to your take or anyone else as I'm fairly new to hand tools.

Thanks!


----------



## mramseyISU

I just got the email I'd been waiting on since January 17th (but who's counting). My carcase saw Bad Axe is building finally is ready to ship. I made the final payment last night and it should be shipping out by Friday.


----------



## bearkatwood

I have been making these for over a year now and have them for sale on my website . I just put out a youtube video on them.
There is currently a wait of a few weeks as I have run out and having more produced. But if you would like to order one, I will send it out as soon as they are done. 




View on YouTube


----------



## DLK

Very nice video. I learned a new perhaps better way to sharpen my card scrapers. Although I have so many and I could easily make one just like yours I think I'll buy as a thank you.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Brian, was watching your video and missed the transition that said, "Tom Fidgen" and thought you had started dressing differently. He looks like that unplugged guy. Why is he doing that?

I am literally that much of an idiot.


----------



## bearkatwood

That is really funny.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, just curious do you still use a vintage no. 5 and did you swap out the blade and chipbreaker for a modern one or keep the original? Do you have more than one blade (one cambered one straight), I have a LN no.5 I got in a tool lot I just bought and I m debating keeping it or selling it and using the money for something else. As I refurb old tools I have an abundance of no.5 s already, I was just curious as to your take or anyone else as I m fairly new to hand tools.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


Nick, sorry for the delayed answer, I went straight from vacation to a business trip

I have hock iron and chipbreaker(not quite as necessary) in my T13 Jack Plane. I'm in the same boat as Garrett Hack and others when it comes to vintage irons. That is, I believe the they are too thin and were really intended for softwoods. I work almost exclusively with hardwoods.

The other issue I have is the about of labor/time there can with getting a vintage iron flat and functional. The ol' time vs money scenario.

Every time I've put a Hock or Veritas iron in any tool, I believe it helped the performance.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I have been making these for over a year now and have them for sale on my website . I just put out a youtube video on them.
> There is currently a wait of a few weeks as I have run out and having more produced. But if you would like to order one, I will send it out as soon as they are done.
> View on YouTube
> 
> - bearkatwood


Good stuff Brian. Your card scraper was a revelation for me as well. So was the secret ju-ju steel.


----------



## bearkatwood

Glad you like them. I sold out of them after I made the video, but I have a new batch of 500 coming. They are going to be shinier and a little wider. Can't wait. I have feelers out with lots of retailers to see if any of them will carry them. Fingers crossed


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Nick, sorry for the delayed answer, I went straight from vacation to a business trip
> 
> I have hock iron and chipbreaker(not quite as necessary) in my T13 Jack Plane. I m in the same boat as Garrett Hack and others when it comes to vintage irons. That is, I believe the they are too thin and were really intended for softwoods. I work almost exclusively with hardwoods.
> 
> The other issue I have is the about of labor/time there can with getting a vintage iron flat and functional. The ol time vs money scenario.
> 
> Every time I ve put a Hock or Veritas iron in any tool, I believe it helped the performance.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


No worries, thanks for the reply, I have a freshly found Stanley T17 (the ones with thicker castings) that was my grandfather's and it's pretty much perfect other than some surface rust and even came with the original box. I'm probably going to get it shined up and switch out the original blade with a LN or Veritas breaker and blade although not sure which yet.

Another question for you or anyone else for that matter that makes saw or plane handles, what rasps do you find best for roughing the profile (after cutting with the bandsaw) and then finalizing before sanding. I see the Grammercy handle makers rasps as being good, but many complained they wanted something rougher for starting.

Thanks!


----------



## JayT

> Another question for you or anyone else for that matter that makes saw or plane handles, what rasps do you find best for roughing the profile (after cutting with the bandsaw) and then finalizing before sanding. I see the Grammercy handle makers rasps as being good, but many complained they wanted something rougher for starting.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


Haven't used the Gramercy, though have thought about getting one.

My routine is to cut the profile, use a rasp to get the lines and outline smoothed out, then run a router with a roundover bit to hog off a bunch of material before going back to the rasps to refine and work the shape

I've been using a 200mm cabinet rasp and rifflers purchased from Robert Larson Tools to do the rough work-thinking that Tome Feteira in Portugal is the original manufacturer. The cabinet rasp takes off material fast, but doesn't leave that great of a surface, so it's followed up by small Iwasaki files that leave a pretty clean surface.

The Iwasaki's require a light touch to get a nice finish. If you lay into them, they'll remove a lot of material in a hurry. The only reason I don't use them first is that the ones I have are pretty small and want a bigger rasp to start.

Recently, I picked up a couple 6in Corradi Gold's to see how they work, but haven't had a chance to use them, yet.


----------



## mramseyISU

Since we're talking rasps I'm looking for some ok rasps to shape a couple of plane totes. I'd love to drop $50 or $100 on a nice Grammercy or Auriou but I've gotten by this long without needing one. Are there any rasps worth a darn in the $25ish wheelhouse?


----------



## JayT

mramsey, the smaller Iwasaki files are about that price and far better than any rasp in the same price range, IMHO.

Edit: Something like this set would do a lot of the work. One of my files is the flat one that's in that set. It's a bit small for extended use, but for just a handle or two would be fine. You may also want to grab an Extra Fine to do finishing or can just start sanding at a bit coarser grit. Highland also has some other files and sets lower down on the page if you prefer a bit larger tool or a different cut level.

And I just realized I'm recommending Japanese tools on the Modern American Hand tool thread. Oh well, there's not a North American made rasp that's worth spit, AFAIK. All the good ones are either made in Europe or Japan.


----------



## mramseyISU

> mramsey, the smaller Iwasaki files are about that price and far better than any rasp in that price range, IMHO.
> 
> - JayT


Hey that's a good idea. You're ok for a Jayhawk fan.


----------



## gargey

Love my LN mortise chisels. I don't have any other way of making a mortise, so they're not gonna just collect dust…


----------



## DLK

I like the shinto rasp for rough to medium work. Then I go with a vintage Simonds cabinet rasp I restored and/pr others I have picked up dirt cheap at garage sales.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Glad you like them. I sold out of them after I made the video, but I have a new batch of 500 coming. They are going to be shinier and a little wider. Can t wait. I have feelers out with lots of retailers to see if any of them will carry them. Fingers crossed
> 
> - bearkatwood


Aha, for ordering late I get the shinier/wider version, ye dull/skinny suckers!
Good luck with the retail side. Can't wait to try it out.


----------



## ColonelTravis

pretend this double post never happened


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Another question for you or anyone else for that matter that makes saw or plane handles, what rasps do you find best for roughing the profile (after cutting with the bandsaw) and then finalizing before sanding. I see the Grammercy handle makers rasps as being good, but many complained they wanted something rougher for starting.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


I've only made a couple saw handles but I can see how the Gramercy curved saw file would come in handy. It's not like you can't make one without it. But not having one, I have said multiple times - the curved one would sure be nice for the surfaces around the big center hole. I didn't know some people thought it didn't cut aggressively enough - maybe a nice riffler or two or three would do the trick. If you're gonna make a lot of handles, I'd invest in something curved.


----------



## ADN

The Narex rasps have worked well for me and have used the heck out of them….

Andy


----------



## bearkatwood

> Aha, for ordering late I get the shinier/wider version, ye dull/skinny suckers!
> Good luck with the retail side. Can t wait to try it out.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Too funny.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I recall Bearkat posting a link with some affordable luthier rasps awhile back. Can't remember where.



> Love my LN mortise chisels. I don t have any other way of making a mortise, so they re not gonna just collect dust…
> 
> - gargey


Heh. I just put mine up for sale if anyone is interested;-)
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/213018


----------



## CL810

I purchased the LN Dowel Plate at their recent show in Cincy. Played with it today and I'm very pleased with the results. Hard Maple and walnut.


----------



## bearkatwood

It was International Violin They have some great prices on stuff and they are the only carrier of the swordfish rasp that I could find. I have been using it for ten years and love it, though it is a pretty course rasp.


----------



## DLK

So tells us about the other rasps at International Violin . Are they any good? Where are they made? etc.


----------



## mramseyISU

It's here, it's finally here.

My Bad Axe Carcase saw showed up yesterday.










Looks pretty good with the matching dovetail saw I've had for a while.



















In case any of your are wondering here's what it looks like next to a Veritas Carcase saw.


----------



## Mosquito

Every time I see a Bad Axe saw I want one even more… some day.

What spine is that, copper?


----------



## mramseyISU

> Every time I see a Bad Axe saw I want one even more… some day.
> 
> What spine is that, copper?
> 
> - Mosquito


Copper plated steel.

I used to say the same thing and just made the plunge last year with the dovetail saw. He had one during a sale premade so I just did it. I had Veritas saws that I thought worked ok but this is like going from a Mustang to a Ferrari.


----------



## bearkatwood

> So tells us about the other rasps at International Violin . Are they any good? Where are they made? etc.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Not sure where the rest are made and like I said I bought mine at a garage sale a while back and have been happy with it. As far as to how well they work, well I guess that goes toward a David and Goliath conversation. You can accomplish amazing feats with a rock, so it all rests in the users hands to know if they can produce a good effect. I have seen some woodworkers use very expensive tools to massacre a project.  myself included on occasion. 
If I need to order more rasps I will give them a try and let you all know what I think.


----------



## summerfi

"You can accomplish amazing feats with a rock…." I like that quote. Reminds me of what my Dad used to say. "The best tool a man can own is a good pocket knife."


----------



## bearkatwood

I was a boy scout when I was a kid and still carry a pocket knife with me everywhere I go. I feel naked without it and I use it in the shop quite often.


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah buddy


----------



## mramseyISU

> I was a boy scout when I was a kid and still carry a pocket knife with me everywhere I go. I feel naked without it and I use it in the shop quite often.
> 
> - bearkatwood


I'm the same way. I started in Cub Scouts as a 2nd Grader stayed with my Troop until I got married and now I'm a Cub Master. My wife thinks there's something wrong with me for always needing a pocket knife.


----------



## DLK

> I was a boy scout when I was a kid and still carry a pocket knife with me everywhere I go. I feel naked without it and I use it in the shop quite often.
> 
> - bearkatwood


I would like to carry a pocket knife, but TSA takes them away when I travel.


----------



## bearkatwood

I thought they changed that stupid rule.


----------



## DLK

> I thought they changed that stupid rule.
> 
> - bearkatwood


They took my wife's folding sewing scissors with when traveling from San Francisco to Chicago. (They had not done that befor on countless trips.)

Poking around the Internet I find:

In early 2013, the TSA made a historic announcement that small knives were once again going to be allowed on planes. However, after receiving blowback from the public and strong resistance from the Association of Flight Attendants, the TSA decided to abandon the plan to allow small knives onboard. In short, regardless of how small it is, you are not allowed to carry any knife into the cabin of a plane.

But of course you can't trust anything you read on the Internet these days unless of course it was written by an LJ


----------



## WayneC

I carried a small swiss army knife through TSA a number of times. I forgot it was in my bag and flew to china with it. Clearing China security, it too them 15 minutes to find it in my bag. Too much fun. Same issues with lighters. Ok for US travel but not International when clearing other countries.


----------



## DLK

My wife once forgot here bag contained several (like a half dozen or so) pairs of regular scissors once. Fortunately are car was in the parking lot and easy to get to and from.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Looks pretty good with the matching dovetail saw I ve had for a while.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - mramseyISU


Super jealous I'll take the plunge into western saws at some point, but I don't know how to sharpen and don't have the time right now so I'll be sticking with my Japanese saws for now.

Beautiful saws though congrats!


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## bobasaurus

The copper on the spines looks really good. Do they really cut noticeably better than the veritas?


----------



## bearkatwood

Nice saws!!


----------



## DLK

I checked and much to my surprise Copper is significantly heavier then brass. I may have to get me one. For after all I do live in copper country.


----------



## mramseyISU

> The copper on the spines looks really good. Do they really cut noticeably better than the veritas?
> 
> - bobasaurus


I do like them better than the Veritas saws I've had. They seem to be a bit sharper right out of the box but it's not a huge change. The biggest difference is the totes are quite a bit more comfortable.


----------



## CL810

I like the hang angle of the Bad Axe saw better. The Veritas handle made for a more upright blade. With the Bad Axe the saw blade was flat which for joinery cuts I like better.


----------



## ADN

Steve Voigt smoother, this is one fantastic little piece of craftsmanship, and I can even use it with one hand!



















Andy


----------



## woodcox

Very nice Andy. How long was his turn around?


----------



## ADN

Can't recall for sure, but 3-4 months….no more than 4. Steve has great communication with the customer


----------



## gargey

What reputable place sells a kerfing plane? Not interested in making one.


----------



## gargey

I guess a kerfing plan isn't really a normal part of the hand tool arsenal, if it's not offered in size by any of the usual suspects.


----------



## JADobson

Its a newer addition popularized by Tom Fidgen, who has always recommended people make their own. Generally only used by those who are reassign their own lumber. So no maybe not normal, but a part nonetheless.


----------



## DLK

The Luban 043 is a kerfing plane. A bit hard to get in the US.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

Bad Axe sells a kerfing plane plate kit for $95.

http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/kpfs.php

Towards the bottom you can separate the kit and just get the kerfing plane plate if you want. I have no idea what the hell is in the kit, but it definitely sounds as though some work will be involved.


----------



## WayneC

> I guess a kerfing plan isn t really a normal part of the hand tool arsenal, if it s not offered in size by any of the usual suspects.
> 
> - gargey


The only production one I have seen is the Luban.


----------



## ColonelTravis

I cannot use Western saws for crosscuts with any joy at all. Not sure why that is. I love my LN dovetail saw for dovetails. I bought a Japanese style saw at Harbor Freight a while back for crosscutting that is not bad (seriously). Maybe it's just my anatomy or my bench setup or both or who knows. Western style crosscuts - big fat no for me.

But today a Gyokucho 372 arrived and I tried it out. Awesome saw! It is thin, so I see why people use it for dovetails.

I know this is thread for modern N. American stuff. Does anyone else have a hang-up like this, where Western style doesn't work for you? This one example is the only one I have. Otherwise, it's Western all the way.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> I cannot use Western saws for crosscuts with any joy at all. Not sure why that is. I love my LN dovetail saw for dovetails. I bought a Japanese style saw at Harbor Freight a while back for crosscutting that is not bad (seriously). Maybe it s just my anatomy or my bench setup or both or who knows. Western style crosscuts - big fat no for me.
> 
> But today a Gyokucho 372 arrived and I tried it out. Awesome saw! It is thin, so I see why people use it for dovetails.
> 
> I know this is thread for modern N. American stuff. Does anyone else have a hang-up like this, where Western style doesn t work for you? This one example is the only one I have. Otherwise, it s Western all the way.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


I love both Japanese saws better and chisels, the japanese chisels are amazing.


----------



## gargey

I have many many LN tools and most of them are great, except for my crosscut saw which sucks ass. I need to send it back, but I never have time for stuff like that. Have wanted to for a year.



> I cannot use Western saws for crosscuts with any joy at all. Not sure why that is. I love my LN dovetail saw for dovetails. I bought a Japanese style saw at Harbor Freight a while back for crosscutting that is not bad (seriously). Maybe it s just my anatomy or my bench setup or both or who knows. Western style crosscuts - big fat no for me.
> 
> But today a Gyokucho 372 arrived and I tried it out. Awesome saw! It is thin, so I see why people use it for dovetails.
> 
> I know this is thread for modern N. American stuff. Does anyone else have a hang-up like this, where Western style doesn t work for you? This one example is the only one I have. Otherwise, it s Western all the way.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


----------



## terryR

Here's a small 50 degree Coffin Smoother I made last week from East Indian Rosewood. Iron is shop-made from O1 steel and is 3/16" thick. Quite comfy to use, and makes fine shavings. Overall length of just over 5".


----------



## harelfiliba

[removed]


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Here s a small 50 degree Coffin Smoother I made last week from East Indian Rosewood. Iron is shop-made from O1 steel and is 3/16" thick. Quite comfy to use, and makes fine shavings. Overall length of just over 5".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - terryR


That's purty…you should make me one out of African Blackwood


----------



## DLK

Quick question (maybe wrong forum). I rove a blank from a cherry log today. What plane would you use to make it flat enough for a spoon/paddle carving?


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

Very Nice J,!



> Here s a small 50 degree Coffin Smoother I made last week from East Indian Rosewood. Iron is shop-made from O1 steel and is 3/16" thick. Quite comfy to use, and makes fine shavings. Overall length of just over 5".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - terryR


----------



## Brit

> Quick question (maybe wrong forum). I rove a blank from a cherry log today. What plane would you use to make it flat enough for a spoon/paddle carving?
> 
> - Combo Prof


An axe.


----------



## DLK

O.K. Carving hatchet then. Maybe a bit to dry.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Quick question (maybe wrong forum). I rove a blank from a cherry log today. What plane would you use to make it flat enough for a spoon/paddle carving?
> 
> - Combo Prof


For wood utensils I dont plane much of anything, if at all. I almost always take a draw knife or hatchet, spokeshave, rasps, files, gouges. For a spatula kind of thing I've used a block.


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## BigRedKnothead

That thing is outstanding Terry. It's been fun to watch you develop.



> I have many many LN tools and most of them are great, except for my crosscut saw which sucks ass. I need to send it back, but I never have time for stuff like that. Have wanted to for a year.
> - gargey


Huh. My LN tapered Crosscut saw is the most used saw in my shop. Wonder if you got a lemon? Mine's awesome.


----------



## TheFridge

I know a couple that hated it because it was grabby at first. Until the grabiness wore off. Then they loved it.


----------



## DLK

Thanks Colonel and Andy. I had quite forgotten I made a carving hatchet at the end of autumn last year. I used it to take off the high spots and then scrubbed the cherry blank a bit with a 5 1/2 plane set for a corse cut. (I really like planning and rived/quarter sawn cherry is so pretty.) So the blank is all set now to cut out the required flat mixing spoons. As you can tell its my first time doing this. But you got to start sometime.


----------



## gargey

I did. The set was unbalanced. After a while I attempted to remedy it by reducing set on the offending side, but now it binds in the cut. I have 5 other LN saws and they're very nice. The x-cut sucks so hard. Very annoying.



> Huh. My LN tapered Crosscut saw is the most used saw in my shop. Wonder if you got a lemon? Mine s awesome.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


----------



## TheFridge

I'd talk to them about returning it


----------



## terryR

^I agree. I bet you money that if you explain the problem, and the fact that you love the other FIVE LN saws, they bend over backwards to send another.


----------



## gargey

I have already, I just don't have time to package and mail things.


----------



## DLK

> I have already, I just don t have time to package and mail things.
> 
> - gargey


No offense, but you probably do have the time. If you can write and complain about it, then you had the time to package and mail it. You just don't want to be bothered to do so. My apologies for pointing this out.


----------



## mramseyISU

Ok gang I've decided I'm going to buy my first nice bench chisel after a few years of using OK ones. My 3/4" one gets used a lot so I'm going to start there. I've looked at Lie-Nielsen, Veritas, Ashley Iles and Blue Spruce. I think I'm going to go with the LN. I'd consider the Ashley Iles but can't seem to find them in stock anywhere in the US and I don't think (think being the key word) that the veritas or Blue Spruce are that much better considering the price jump. Are there any others I should look at in the $50ish per chisel price range? I'm not interested in the new stanleys or Narex before anybody suggests those. I've got some of the Stanley's and this one will be replacing my 3/4" one because of some user error, so I figure if I have to replace it I might as well get a good one.


----------



## JayT

Are you wanting a socket style or just looking at various chisels?

Reason I'm asking is that I've been very happy with my Two Cherries bevel edge chisels for quality, balance and edge retention. Happy enough that I just bought another one, a 3mm for dovetail work, a couple weeks ago. Not as pretty as some of the others (some of the Blue Spruce are just drool-worthy) but have been fabulous workers.

The only consideration for some is that they are all metric sizes. If you don't work to exact sizes, it's not a big deal, but some want chisels to be an exact imperial width.


----------



## onoitsmatt

If you're interested in the Ashley Iles, check with Tools for Working Wood. They just posted on Instagram that they just got a huge shipment of Iles tools. Doesn't look like they've updated their inventory on their website yet, but if you give them a call or email, you may find that they have them in stock.


----------



## mramseyISU

> If you re interested in the Ashley Iles, check with Tools for Working Wood. They just posted on Instagram that they just got a huge shipment of Iles tools. Doesn t look like they ve updated their inventory on their website yet, but if you give them a call or email, you may find that they have them in stock.
> 
> - onoitsmatt


I don't do the instagram thing so I hadn't seen that. I'd be really interested in an Ashley Iles I just hadn't seen them in stock.


----------



## TheFridge

Heard great things about pmv11 chisels. Have the LN myself. Pretty nice.


----------



## gargey

I have a pregnant wife, a 2 year old daughter, and work in an institutional securites job (6AM-7PM+, time on the weekends, etc), and a never ending list of things that are much more important. It takes something approximating idiocy, Prof, to suggest that if a minute is available, then "you do have time." It is not literal. Time is very scarce, very valuable, and packaging and mailing things is not a good use of that time.

For completeness sake, I also never post here from home.



> No offense, but you probably do have the time. If you can write and complain about it, then you had the time to package and mail it. You just don t want to be bothered to do so. My apologies for pointing this out.
> - Combo Prof


----------



## TheFridge

Then take that saw and shove it up your ass since you don't have time to do anything. Hopefully you have time to do that.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Ok gang I ve decided I m going to buy my first nice bench chisel after a few years of using OK ones. My 3/4" one gets used a lot so I m going to start there. I ve looked at Lie-Nielsen, Veritas, Ashley Iles and Blue Spruce. I think I m going to go with the LN. I d consider the Ashley Iles but can t seem to find them in stock anywhere in the US and I don t think (think being the key word) that the veritas or Blue Spruce are that much better considering the price jump. Are there any others I should look at in the $50ish per chisel price range? I m not interested in the new stanleys or Narex before anybody suggests those. I ve got some of the Stanley s and this one will be replacing my 3/4" one because of some user error, so I figure if I have to replace it I might as well get a good one.
> 
> - mramseyISU


I've used all the chisels your considering except PM-V11. I respect Ashely Iles at their price point, but their steel is not on the level of the others. For chopping DTs, the LN edge will last me 2 to 3 times longer. Something to consider. 
I have bo


----------



## gargey

> Then take that saw and shove it up your ass since you don t have time to do anything. Hopefully you have time to do that.
> 
> - TheFridge


Careful what you wish for, Fridge. Last time you tried to pick a fight with me your posts quickly devolved into nonsense.

Also, what an awkard mix of what I guess is misguided "high-horse" and rudeness in that post.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Ok gang I ve decided I m going to buy my first nice bench chisel after a few years of using OK ones. My 3/4" one gets used a lot so I m going to start there. I ve looked at Lie-Nielsen, Veritas, Ashley Iles and Blue Spruce. I think I m going to go with the LN. I d consider the Ashley Iles but can t seem to find them in stock anywhere in the US and I don t think (think being the key word) that the veritas or Blue Spruce are that much better considering the price jump. Are there any others I should look at in the $50ish per chisel price range? I m not interested in the new stanleys or Narex before anybody suggests those. I ve got some of the Stanley s and this one will be replacing my 3/4" one because of some user error, so I figure if I have to replace it I might as well get a good one.
> 
> - mramseyISU


Just throwing my 2 cents in, I prefer Japanese chisels and the Hida Tool ones are nice I believe even the Wood Whisperer uses them. A buddy of mine has them and I tried them out and they are pretty damn nice.

http://www.hidatool.com/woodworking/chisels/hida-bench-chisels


----------



## TheFridge

I can't help that you don't have the mental capacity to comprehend my greatness.

Go be an asshole somewhere else.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Then take that saw and shove it up your ass since you don t have time to do anything. Hopefully you have time to do that.
> 
> - TheFridge
> 
> Careful what you wish for, Fridge. Last time you tried to pick a fight with me your posts quickly devolved into nonsense.
> 
> - gargey


Come on fellas can't we all just get along…seriously though why even start this up, is it really worth it? Maybe you can run the saw to the Post Office on your lunch break, that's when I do all my mailings Gargey. I feel your pain with no time 2 little ones myself and I do all my work when they go to bed and maybe a couple hours on the weekend depending on the wifes mood.


----------



## TheFridge

Ditto. I'll still have to refer him to my previous post.



> Go be an asshole somewhere else.
> 
> - TheFridge


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Fridge…..the regulator of the ridiculousness. lawlz.

We need some tool porn back on this thread.


----------



## chrisstef

Someone say tool porn??


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Someone say tool porn??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - chrisstef


Yikes…


----------



## UpstateNYdude

Speaking of painful, when the hell is LN releasing the DAMN PLOW PLANE! Everytime I see a picture of the MF patent I weep because I don't own the absurdly priced LN one yet.


----------



## TheFridge

Stef I think he might have some candy in his pouch for kiddies as well. And a banana in his pocket.


----------



## terryR

Damn, thanks for the mention of Ashley Iles fresh in stock at TFWW!!!!!!!!!

I've been wanting the round back chisels for a long time, just grabbed a 1/16" and 3/8" to fill the gaps in LN. My LN's are cutting the hell outta my fingers lately since I'm mortising out so many little planes, since I hold them by the edges like a pencil. Hope the round backs will help?

tiny tool porn. A plane I completed yesterday from Yellowheart with a 1/2" wide iron. Not that pretty, but makes fine shavings without tearout!


----------



## mramseyISU

> Ok gang I ve decided I m going to buy my first nice bench chisel after a few years of using OK ones. My 3/4" one gets used a lot so I m going to start there. I ve looked at Lie-Nielsen, Veritas, Ashley Iles and Blue Spruce. I think I m going to go with the LN. I d consider the Ashley Iles but can t seem to find them in stock anywhere in the US and I don t think (think being the key word) that the veritas or Blue Spruce are that much better considering the price jump. Are there any others I should look at in the $50ish per chisel price range? I m not interested in the new stanleys or Narex before anybody suggests those. I ve got some of the Stanley s and this one will be replacing my 3/4" one because of some user error, so I figure if I have to replace it I might as well get a good one.
> 
> - mramseyISU
> 
> I ve used all the chisels your considering except PM-V11. I respect Ashely Iles at their price point, but their steel is not on the level of the others. For chopping DTs, the LN edge will last me 2 to 3 times longer. Something to consider.
> I have bo
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I'd like a PM-V11 but I don't think they are worth double the money. I also wondered about the Ashley Ilses edge retention since it's O1 steel. The A2 should last longer.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Speaking of painful, when the hell is LN releasing the DAMN PLOW PLANE! Everytime I see a picture of the MF patent I weep because I don t own the absurdly priced LN one yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


I hear ya, I was hoping they'd unveil it at Handworks….two years ago. Maybe this time. Going in a couple weeks.


----------



## bobasaurus

> Here s a small 50 degree Coffin Smoother I made last week from East Indian Rosewood. Iron is shop-made from O1 steel and is 3/16" thick. Quite comfy to use, and makes fine shavings. Overall length of just over 5".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - terryR


That is a very nice plane, I love the shaping.


----------



## bobasaurus

Did someone say millers patent plow?










This thing was bought by another member of the local tool club. Modern reproduction.


----------



## builtinbkyn

> Damn, thanks for the mention of Ashley Iles fresh in stock at TFWW!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I ve been wanting the round back chisels for a long time, just grabbed a 1/16" and 3/8" to fill the gaps in LN. My LN s are cutting the hell outta my fingers lately since I m mortising out so many little planes, since I hold them by the edges like a pencil. Hope the round backs will help?
> 
> tiny tool porn. A plane I completed yesterday from Yellowheart with a 1/2" wide iron. Not that pretty, but makes fine shavings without tearout!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - terryR


You'll really like them. I have a full set - well almost - I know I'm missing one. I think the 1". I'll have to check in the shop tomorrow. They're feathery light, hold an edge and have a really nice feeling handle. Great for paring. I'll have to stop there again - was there a few days ago - to see if they have that last chisel for my set. I also have the skew chisels.


----------



## DLK

You're going to make me spend money. I went looking for a couple of Ashley Iles carving gouges, but TFWW showed they were out of stock. So I bought a Hirsch from Lee Valley. The Hirsch gouge turned out to be very very nice. So I am conflicted more Ashley Iles or more Hirsch.

I think TFWW may have updated their inventory or at least part of it.


----------



## JADobson

> Then take that saw and shove it up your ass since you don t have time to do anything. Hopefully you have time to do that.
> 
> - TheFridge


ROFL


----------



## JayT

> So I am conflicted more Ashley Iles or more Hirsch.
> 
> - Combo Prof


It's my understanding that Hirsch and Two Cherries chisels are the same blades with some different options for handles. The Hirsch chisels sold by Lee Valley appear to be identical to my Two Cherries with different stickers.


----------



## DLK

> So I am conflicted more Ashley Iles or more Hirsch.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> It s my understanding that Hirsch and Two Cherries chisels are the same blades with some different options for handles. The Hirsch chisels sold by Lee Valley appear to be identical to my Two Cherries with different stickers.
> 
> - JayT


Possibly. I have read that they may be made in the same or adjacent factories, but I cannot say for certain. 
At least they rhyme. (Cherry is kirsch in german and Deer is Hirsch)


----------



## rad457

I finally broke out a set of Two Cherries I picked up in Germany 3 years ago and have to say VERY IMPRESSED!
I' ve got the New and old Stanleys a set of Narex and a bunch of other old favorites as well as using the new 
Veritas PMV-11 at Lee Valley Workshops, Two Cherries IMHO the best of all. (exception is some Japanese D.T. s )


----------



## ColonelTravis

Just arrived, the BearKat Scraper.









Have not sharpened it properly yet but I ran it across a cutting board I'm making a few times just to feel it out and it's great. Love the bend I can put into it. The curved parts I don't need to sharpen yet, so it feels more comfortable to hold than a regular rectangle. Also like the versatility with the overall shape.

Look forward to using this a lot. 
Thanks Brian!


----------



## DLK

I wonder if mine was shipped?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I've got several of his scrapers. Best I've used.


----------



## DLK

Mine was waiting for me when I returned home from traveling.


----------



## DLK

What do we know about: Ozark County Carving Tools - OCC Tools by Mike Shipley Made in the USA ? Has anyone tried them? Should they be added to the list.


----------



## bobasaurus

> What do we know about: Ozark County Carving Tools - OCC Tools by Mike Shipley Made in the USA ? Has anyone tried them? Should they be added to the list.
> 
> - Combo Prof


They look pretty good. O1 steel, hardened and tempered to a specified rockwell. The handles are a bit blocky for my tastes, and it looks like they are made from somewhat thin flat stock instead of forged from a bar.


----------



## DLK

Same as my thoughts. I just stumbled over them traversing eBay.


----------



## mramseyISU

> What do we know about: Ozark County Carving Tools - OCC Tools by Mike Shipley Made in the USA ? Has anyone tried them? Should they be added to the list.
> 
> - Combo Prof


In case anybody is wondering that website is blocked in my office because it's weapons not carving tools he's selling.


----------



## DLK

> What do we know about: Ozark County Carving Tools - OCC Tools by Mike Shipley Made in the USA ? Has anyone tried them? Should they be added to the list.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> In case anybody is wondering that website is blocked in my office because it s weapons not carving tools he s selling.
> 
> - mramseyISU


What?


----------



## Brit

All I see on the site are chisels and carving knives.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> In case anybody is wondering that website is blocked in my office because it s weapons not carving tools he s selling.
> 
> - mramseyISU


He probably has an internet filter at work and it's scanning the page and just sees "Knives" and considers it weapons, yay modern technology!


----------



## mramseyISU

> In case anybody is wondering that website is blocked in my office because it s weapons not carving tools he s selling.
> 
> - mramseyISU
> 
> He probably has an internet filter at work and it s scanning the page and just sees "Knives" and considers it weapons, yay modern technology!
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


Yep the internet nanny knows all. I actually had my computer confiscated by IT earlier this week because they thought it might have a virus. I was twiddling my thumbs for a day and a half.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Yep the internet nanny knows all. I actually had my computer confiscated by IT earlier this week because they thought it might have a virus. I was twiddling my thumbs for a day and a half.
> 
> - mramseyISU


I've confiscated a few PCs myself from coworkers (I'm IT), but for far worse reasons than viruses. Usually it involves police or a great amount of embarrassment at the Union meeting for misconduct, either way it's a good show. No one ever reads the internet usage agreements they sign or asks any questions, they just assume no one is watching what they do and think the computer is "their computer" so they can just do whatever the hell they want…silly rabbits!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

This is the week of the "Big Show" for handtoolers in the Midwest









I'll be there for most of it. If any of you goofs are going and you see a giant ginger with a dwarf for a wife….it's prolly me. Don't be afraid to say hi or offer me a pint;-)


----------



## builtinbkyn

I was at Gramercy Tools on Saturday and they were packing up boxes for the show. I guess you can expect to see them there.


----------



## mramseyISU

> Yep the internet nanny knows all. I actually had my computer confiscated by IT earlier this week because they thought it might have a virus. I was twiddling my thumbs for a day and a half.
> 
> - mramseyISU
> 
> I ve confiscated a few PCs myself from coworkers (I m IT), but for far worse reasons than viruses. Usually it involves police or a great amount of embarrassment at the Union meeting for misconduct, either way it s a good show. No one ever reads the internet usage agreements they sign or asks any questions, they just assume no one is watching what they do and think the computer is "their computer" so they can just do whatever the hell they want…silly rabbits!
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


I've personally never seen anybody do anything stupid like that but a boss I had a couple years ago had to fire a guy because he walked by and noticed him watching porn in the office on his work PC. My general rule of thumb is never look at anything on my work pc that I wouldn't want somebody in HR to see.


----------



## mramseyISU

> This is the week of the "Big Show" for handtoolers in the Midwest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ll be there for most of it. If any of you goofs are going and you see a giant ginger with a dwarf for a wife….it s prolly me. Don t be afraid to say hi or offer me a pint;-)
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I'll be there Friday. My oldest has a baseball tournament Saturday/Sunday so I'm going to miss Roy. He was really good last time.


----------



## bobasaurus

I'll definitely be there, can't wait. I'm a pale 6' tall thin guy with short brown hair… maybe not so distinct. I should get my logo made into a shirt or something. I hope to meet some of you there.


----------



## DLK

I registered and was planning to drive down for it, but with buying a new shop and then trying to get the old one ready for sale. I just won't have the time to go.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

Ugh, someday I'll get to get out there and see Saint Roy and The Schwarz, preferably before myself or they pass lol


----------



## ToddJB

LN No1 on CL if anyone is interested (not mine)

https://boulder.craigslist.org/tls/6133370906.html


----------



## TheFridge

I use the [email protected]&$ out of mine.


----------



## bobasaurus

If only I had a use for it.


----------



## TheFridge

It's my go to for face grain instead of using a block.


----------



## ToddJB

I mean, Allen, it's so close to you. Seem criminal if you don't make the drive up. Think about the savings on shipping.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Back from Handworks. Some shots for ya'll.

Got the chance to visit with several LJs. Here's Walden, Me, and Bobasaurus. I also met Wally, Douglas and a couple others. 









Some BearHack was selling tools:








Crazy people lined up outside despite the rain. Not sure why….it's no cheaper if you get there first. 








My wife and planemaker Jerermiah Wilding. Two of my favorite introverts. 








If I could only remember which mortise chisel Andy is missing??








St. Roy








Everything's pretty after some German Ale's









Good time, but it went fast.


----------



## bobasaurus

It was nice meeting you Red, and Walden too. Last night I lucked into having dinner with Ron Hock, Tico Vogt, Dave Jeske (Blue Spruce Toolworks), Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood), Gary Blum and a few other celebrities in our niche. I was kind of awkward but got to show off my chisel and drawknife.


----------



## waho6o9

That's awesome Allen what a great time for everyone.

We should be seeing these in a promotion some time in the future.










U da Man Allen ^^


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> It was nice meeting you Red, and Walden too. Last night I lucked into having dinner with Ron Hock, Tico Vogt, Dave Jeske (Blue Spruce Toolworks), Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood), Gary Blum and a few other celebrities in our niche. I was kind of awkward but got to show off my chisel and drawknife.
> 
> - bobasaurus


Jeez added Schwarz and St. Roy and I'd probably keel over.


----------



## galooticus

Was looking for a dedicated handworks thread, guess it's here 

I was wandering around the show too. First time I've been to any sort of woodworking event. Amana is a good place for it; the wife was entertained by the nearby shops as well.

I was hoping to see or hear something about the upcoming Veritas large plow and wasn't disappointed. They are calling it the combination plane and had it on hand. If you preordered there at the show, they included a nice case for the plane and a pair of blade boxes for free. Rob Lee himself showed me the plane and the case; he's super cool and approachable. I was told Handworks was the only time they are taking preorders. Planes are expected to ship in August. Of course I got on the preorder list.

They have a bunch more blades coming, but I don't think there were any molding type blades. Mainly wider straight blades, more reeding and beading type things IIRC. Also mainly in PM-V11. All the existing (right handed) small plow blades work plus stanley 45 (and/or 55?) blades. The plane (really the fence arms) are reversible for left/right handed. Lots of extra knobs for fine-tuned adjustments, like on the fence and depth stop.

I talked to Scott Meek a bit and tried out a couple of his planes. He's cool, and his planes are amazing. The sculpted feel is super nice, and the function just feels incredibly precise and and refined. I would have bought one if I hadn't preordered the combination plane. When you have one in your hands, it's hard to resist, no matter the price. Might buy one still.

Tons of people. BRK pointed out the line, it was 2-3x that long waiting for Roy Saturday morning. Normally I detest lines, but coming from CA and not knowing how it would play out, I got there early to make sure I'd see him. Later I got books signed by Chris Schwarz, Nancy Hiller, and Roy Underhill. Chris was super busy, but I did get to chat with Nancy and Roy a little.

Trying to think of other highlights, but those were the big ones for me. Didn't win a door prize.

Since I'm staying at my grandma's (old) house, I went hunting and found some old handtools that belonged to my grandpa and great grandpas. Drawknife, chisel, #3-size plane, and a transitional jack plane. Good haul for the trip as a whole. Might post some pictures when I'm back in CA.


----------



## bobasaurus

> That s awesome Allen what a great time for everyone.
> 
> We should be seeing these in a promotion some time in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U da Man Allen ^^
> 
> - waho6o9


Thanks Waho, I had a good time showing it off. Turns out tools made from bicycle chain are pretty uncommon, who'd of thunk it.


----------



## bobasaurus

> Was looking for a dedicated handworks thread, guess it s here
> 
> I was wandering around the show too. First time I ve been to any sort of woodworking event. Amana is a good place for it; the wife was entertained by the nearby shops as well.
> 
> I was hoping to see or hear something about the upcoming Veritas large plow and wasn t disappointed. They are calling it the combination plane and had it on hand. If you preordered there at the show, they included a nice case for the plane and a pair of blade boxes for free. Rob Lee himself showed me the plane and the case; he s super cool and approachable. I was told Handworks was the only time they are taking preorders. Planes are expected to ship in August. Of course I got on the preorder list.
> 
> They have a bunch more blades coming, but I don t think there were any molding type blades. Mainly wider straight blades, more reeding and beading type things IIRC. Also mainly in PM-V11. All the existing (right handed) small plow blades work plus stanley 45 (and/or 55?) blades. The plane (really the fence arms) are reversible for left/right handed. Lots of extra knobs for fine-tuned adjustments, like on the fence and depth stop.
> 
> I talked to Scott Meek a bit and tried out a couple of his planes. He s cool, and his planes are amazing. The sculpted feel is super nice, and the function just feels incredibly precise and and refined. I would have bought one if I hadn t preordered the combination plane. When you have one in your hands, it s hard to resist, no matter the price. Might buy one still.
> 
> Tons of people. BRK pointed out the line, it was 2-3x that long waiting for Roy Saturday morning. Normally I detest lines, but coming from CA and not knowing how it would play out, I got there early to make sure I d see him. Later I got books signed by Chris Schwarz, Nancy Hiller, and Roy Underhill. Chris was super busy, but I did get to chat with Nancy and Roy a little.
> 
> Trying to think of other highlights, but those were the big ones for me. Didn t win a door prize.
> 
> Since I m staying at my grandma s (old) house, I went hunting and found some old handtools that belonged to my grandpa and great grandpas. Drawknife, chisel, #3-size plane, and a transitional jack plane. Good haul for the trip as a whole. Might post some pictures when I m back in CA.
> 
> - galooticus


Andy, I also had lots of fun over there. I was sorely tempted by that veritas combo plane, wow it was nice. I talked to the designer Terry for a while about it, all the engineering is really well thought out. But the $400 base price only comes with one blade, and the sets are going to be super expensive. I do have some 45 and 55 blades that might work instead I guess. I still haven't used my 45 or 55 sadly, I need to try them out and see if it would be a worthwhile upgrade. Seems like the lack of a mouth and chipbreaker would make for some tricky situations with changing grain. I'm almost more tempted to get into wood bodied molding planes. J Wilding's were my favorite out of all I tried, and he's a great guy (I ate with him the first day, and he lives near me).


----------



## TheFridge

I had a lot of trouble with my 45. Never knew you use the straight irons and cut as much waste out as possible.

I still want a set of hollows and rounds. Yeah I'm restraining myself from buying a bunch of planemakers tools. If I get the floats and some irons then I kinda gotta build one asap. I don't really need that temptation right now  so I'll settle for trying to build a saw.


----------



## CL810

Lucky for you Fridge, Christmas will be here very soon.


----------



## TheFridge

And birthday. When I just typed birthday, for some weird reason it autocorrected to urethra. I shoulda left it 

Not that I can't splurge but I don't know if my shop can handle another project right now. Cuz if I get floats I'm gonna have to sharpen them. And if I sharpen them I'm gonna have to try them out. The. I'm gonna have to try them out making a plane. Then the viscous cycle will never stop.


----------



## WayneC

Handworks sounds awesome.

I've been on a router plane kick lately. I really like the Small LN and the Veritas Large Router plane. I will probably get the Medium Veritas since it shares cutters with the Large. I'm also thinking about getting on the Walkemore List for their router planes. Did anyone get to play with them?


----------



## August

My find


























This should deliver a real blow


----------



## WayneC

Very nice.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Enjoyed the Handworks talk. The accessibility to the well known tool makers is a lot of the fun. I've never been the type that gets all fanboy about any of those cats. I don't care if it's Roy or Schwarz. Anyone in the woodworking world is a big fish in a small pond. If they went to a convention of any other sort…nobody would know who they were. This reality makes it a little weird for them at woodworking shows too…I would think.

On that note, I might write a blog about my experiences with toolmakers and fine craftsman someday. Nearly all of them are painfully introverted. I am not. Woodworking is the only introverted thing I do. I am energized by time with lots of socialization. People like my wife, on the other hand, are drained and need to recover.

Anyway, last Hankworks I hung out with the LN guys and other big names. This time I spent the majority of time with people I genuinely consider my friends. No regrets. I didn't want it to end.

Plus I made a new friend. I will be ordering planes from Jeremiah Wilding in the the future. He had the best price and performance on hand made planes (hollows, rounds, molding, fillester). And your not gonna find a higher quality craftsman and human being. I added his name to the list.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Would love to make it to that thing.

I met Roy Underhill at his shop a couple years ago. Actually, the restaurant beside his shop. I was in line for paying the check and I turned around and said to myself: "holy $#!%, that's Roy Underhill standing behind me." What I said out loud was: "Thank you for your show, I've always enjoyed it." He flashed that Roy smile and said thanks.

The tool store above his place was closed for lunch. As I waited for it to re-open, I saw something that sounds dumb but I can't help it. I don't know what era he represents on the show. I always thought maybe 1900-1910. In the restaurant I don't think he was wearing suspenders but he still looked like a figure from a previous century, but it was really, REALLY weird seeing him plop himself in a minivan and drive off.


----------



## terryR

Must search Jeremiah Wilding…

Fridge, don't buy LN floats, get some Japanese versions like this. No need to sharpen ever, and they leave a great surface behind that is ready for filing.










https://www.japanwoodworker.com/products/iwasaki-8-extra-fine-side-float?via=58923197617070231a00002d%2C58923197617070231a000035

my apologies to LN.


----------



## DLK

Thanks Terry. The Iwasaki floats are on sale too at about $10 off. I ordered both an edge and side float.


----------



## terryR

Happy to enable, Don. 

If you want to make planes, grab this little Japanese flush cut saw, too. Same site. Awesome tool!










In place of the LN type float, try a chisel ground flat on the tip. Yep, flat. Just point the chisel into the disc sander for a second for a 90 degree bevel, and use this tool as a push scraper with a handle. A great tool for scraping down in recesses, and cleaning up rasp work.

Just let me know if you guys want more plane_building tips. LOL!


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Just let me know if you guys want more plane_building tips. LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - terryR


Thanks enabler now I have to go spend more money. lol


----------



## terryR

Honestly…the best way to get started IMO…

Just go to the shop and carve one out using what you have! Hacksaw. Sharp chisels. Any files and rasps. Unless you are abnormal, you'll make mistakes. No matter what fancy tools you use. It's hard to carve a mortise this shape without errors, but each time you can assess how to NOT repeat the error. Called the learning curve, and it applies hugely.

But, $5 worth of wood and some time to practice…


----------



## DLK

The Iwasaki files and rasps are 20% off at Japanwoodworker by the way, so I ordered the edge and side float.

Seemed to be ordered through woodcraft.

Then I get an e-mail saying they are back ordered and another giving me 15% off my next order.

Should I use it to get that little razor saw?


----------



## Brit

Yes


----------



## builtinbkyn

> Must search Jeremiah Wilding…
> 
> Fridge, don t buy LN floats, get some Japanese versions like this. No need to sharpen ever, and they leave a great surface behind that is ready for filing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.japanwoodworker.com/products/iwasaki-8-extra-fine-side-float?via=58923197617070231a00002d%2C58923197617070231a000035
> 
> my apologies to LN.
> 
> - terryR


I went to Gramercy Tools last week looking for floats. They no longer carry them. Those floats on that Japanese Tools site, look interesting. I bought the Shinto saw rasps from Amazon. Much better prices, but everything else on that site looks pretty good.


----------



## bobasaurus

> Enjoyed the Handworks talk. The accessibility to the well known tool makers is a lot of the fun. I ve never been the type that gets all fanboy about any of those cats. I don t care if it s Roy or Schwarz. Anyone in the woodworking world is a big fish in a small pond. If they went to a convention of any other sort…nobody would know who they were. This reality makes it a little weird for them at woodworking shows too…I would think.
> 
> On that note, I might write a blog about my experiences with toolmakers and fine craftsman someday. Nearly all of them are painfully introverted. I am not. Woodworking is the only introverted thing I do. I am energized by time with lots of socialization. People like my wife, on the other hand, are drained and need to recover.
> 
> Anyway, last Hankworks I hung out with the LN guys and other big names. This time I spent the majority of time with people I genuinely consider my friends. No regrets. I didn t want it to end.
> 
> Plus I made a new friend. I will be ordering planes from Jeremiah Wilding in the the future. He had the best price and performance on hand made planes (hollows, rounds, molding, fillester). And your not gonna find a higher quality craftsman and human being. I added his name to the list.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Red, it was a lot more fun eating with all of you guys the first day. I've been wanting a set of Jeremiah's planes for years, his attention to detail is impressive. Someday I'll save up and place an order. I talk about his work to fellow woodworkers occasionally, hopefully it will bring him some business.


----------



## terryR

Brass infilled with Honduras Rosewood. Iron is shop made, 15/16" wide and bedded at 50 degrees. Still need to sharpen the iron,


----------



## bobasaurus

That's a neat little plane, Terry. What are the dimensions? Fabricating that lever cap must have taken some work.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Allen. It's 1.25" wide and about 4.5" long.
I made the lever cap unplugged believe it or not.
just hacksaw and file. except for the hole.


----------



## DLK

> Happy to enable, Don.
> 
> If you want to make planes, grab this little Japanese flush cut saw, too. Same site. Awesome tool!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In place of the LN type float, try a chisel ground flat on the tip. Yep, flat. Just point the chisel into the disc sander for a second for a 90 degree bevel, and use this tool as a push scraper with a handle. A great tool for scraping down in recesses, and cleaning up rasp work.
> 
> Just let me know if you guys want more plane_building tips. LOL!
> 
> - terryR


There are so many saws on that site many are similar, so is that this saw. or this saw, or a different one?

Yes more plane building tips.


----------



## terryR

Yes, the little saws look similar. But you want the first one you posted,not the nail cutting saw. Or a 'pad saw' from a vintage sale will work. Even a flush cut saw from the Borg could be re-shaped to fit in tiny spaces. That is what is needed.


----------



## DLK

Anything else and I will have to add money to my paypal account.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> - terryR


Beauty!


----------



## ColonelTravis

double post


----------



## DLK

Now it looks twice as nice. LOL

Seriously I am very jealous of your skill with brass.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks for posting some of your beauties Terry. Fun to watch you hone this in. I put Wilding's site first in the OP links. I can't say enough about the talent and the humility of that dude.



> Red, it was a lot more fun eating with all of you guys the first day. I ve been wanting a set of Jeremiah s planes for years, his attention to detail is impressive. Someday I ll save up and place an order. I talk about his work to fellow woodworkers occasionally, hopefully it will bring him some business.
> 
> - bobasaurus


I hear ya. I suppose that was the point of my post. My goal this year was not to be a fanboy, but spend time with other makers that I would actually have friendships with in the future. Most of the folks with booths there have their niche, and of course they become friends on Instagram and the like. But, look at people like TerryR. Those folks aren't Waaaay more gifted than guys like us. They're just further down the road. Or they married Tom Lie-Nielsons daughter….LOL.

Besides Wilding, I talked with Konrad Sauer the most. He's the real deal imo. I could talk to that dude all day. I will own one of his planes someday. Might not be until after my kids go to college…..but I'll have one;-)


----------



## TheFridge

Amen


----------



## bobasaurus

I tried talking to Konrad on Saturday but he was in the middle of an order… some guy ordered a set of 3 while I was standing there, holy crap.


----------



## TheFridge

Yep. Sorry bob. Duty calls.

I thought you were an oldie but goodie too Bob


----------



## August

what do you all think about this set?
buy it or no?

and admin if im in violations please delete
thanks


----------



## WayneC

I have and like the router plane. I've wanted the small plow and not looked much at the skew rabbet. Their should planes get good reviews.


----------



## jmartel

I've got the router plane and the shoulder plane. Quite happy with them both.


----------



## TheFridge

each of those does a distinct job and you can't go wrong with a veritas for each of them.

I might consider a LN shoulder plane for purely aesthetic reasons.

Didn't know they made a skew rabbet. Decisions decisions.


----------



## WayneC

I think the Router Plane is the best on the market. Perhaps an argument could be made for Walke Moore Tools but good luck getting your hands on one.

The veritas has a nice fence and a slew of cutters. LN has very limited cutter choices and you need a $40 adapter to use other cutters. Cutters are also about twice the cost.


----------



## bobasaurus

I have three of them (all but the plow). They are very nice, though I find the skew rabbet finicky to setup.


----------



## August

Been kicking the tires 
I've been doing lots of hand work
And lately I've been running to lots of one of jobs,.
And this guys will make life easy 
Agree on Wayne about the router I have the lie Nielsen not happy with it,.
Made some sideline jobs and debating to to wait for a littler more funds for the feestool domino or get this now,.
Thanks for input guys

And yes of the rabbet plane 
From what I read and watch


----------



## builtinbkyn

I have the router plane and a 1/2" shoulder plane. I've used them both, but have nothing to compare them to. Both work beautifully. I also picked up a set of small detail rabbet planes since I want to make more small boxes. They're all exceptional quality.

Now back to my day of sharpening. I binge sharpen :O


----------



## ColonelTravis

I can vouch for the Veritas router and plow. Great tools. Skew rabbet will be my next purchase.


----------



## August

> I can vouch for the Veritas router and plow. Great tools. Skew rabbet will be my next purchase.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


I was able to take their router planes for a test drive very nice fit and finish 
What to do now


----------



## WayneC

Just saying.  The LV medium is next on my list. For small, I like the Lie-Nielson because of the square shaft on the cutter.


----------



## August

Nice Wayne


----------



## ColonelTravis

Actually, what I'd love to try and haven't is the really big rectangular router plane from Walke Moore. There are times when I could use the support of a larger frame. I checked their site and they say sold out.


----------



## TheFridge

> For small, I like the Lie-Nielson because of the square shaft on the cutter.
> 
> - WayneC


That was the #1 reason I got it. I'm sure the LV has to hold well but after having a router plane with a LV replacement iron I really just hate messing with it.

I've only had the 1/4" cutter and I haven't wanted anything else but the spear which I got with the LN. It works for me but the LV is way more versatile.


----------



## WayneC

> Actually, what I d love to try and haven t is the really big rectangular router plane from Walke Moore. There are times when I could use the support of a larger frame. I checked their site and they say sold out.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


I would love to have one of the Walke Moore. They have been backlogged for a while. I got one of the small Preston's in the mail from Jim Bode today. I hear that Walke Moore is adding a small to go with the large.


----------



## WayneC

So you can get a sense of scale…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

At Handworks Walker-Moore confessed they were having all sorts of production issues with the castings of their router planes. They insist on keeping it American….but it gets tough.


----------



## ADN

The Preston is a great design, have several routers and it is my favorite router among many.

Here it is with a small Preston knockoff….that' the fence system for the large Preston above them. The small one is fine, but not sure who made it has no markings, not as nice as a real one though.










Regards,
Andy


----------



## WayneC

Wonderful Andy. I'm looking for a large.


----------



## Mosquito

I will second the Preston design being my favorite for router planes. If I had the means, I would probably also have a Walke Moore


----------



## bobasaurus

> Yep. Sorry bob. Duty calls.
> 
> I thought you were an oldie but goodie too Bob
> 
> - TheFridge


I'm 32 now, though I still feel about 14 inside. Except that now I love wooden things and metal stuff.


----------



## bobasaurus

> I will second the Preston design being my favorite for router planes. If I had the means, I would probably also have a Walke Moore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito


Mos, that is a neat plane. Did you turn the handles? I got to try out the walke moore router at handworks, it is a hefty beast and works great. The large wingspan made it super stable, and you could move the blade to either side to trim tenons without having the teeter-totter effect that my 71 does.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> - Mosquito


And did you make that box?


----------



## Mosquito

No to both, both were as I bought them at one of last year's regional MWTCA meets. Olive wood for both, I believe.

The versatility of the Preston style router plane is quite nice. You can put the blade in about 4 different places I think.


----------



## Mosquito




----------



## August

I need to make one like that if I I could just get the time to make it LOL
Been so busy 
I've been trying to find one in eBay can't find it


----------



## UpstateNYdude

Hey Red, I think you already had Wilding on your list above.


----------



## WayneC

That is just awesome Mos. I've been looking for the Preston. I'll probably buy a Walke Moore if they fix their production issues.


----------



## Mosquito

In full disclosure, mine isn't a Preston, but rather a Preston clone. It is a pretty nice plane though. I'm not sure how large that Walke Moore is, but the one I have pictured above is about the same width as a Stanley #71


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Hey Red, I think you already had Wilding on your list above.
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


hehe. That's funny stuff. The "LJ era" of my life is such a blur


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> hehe. That s funny stuff. The "LJ era" of my life is such a blur
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Haha getting old sucks, at least he's at the top of the pile now, so whenever I scrape the money together I'll be grabbing a half set of hollows and rounds. Anyone have an idea of his prices I only looked quick, but didn't see any?


----------



## DLK

Not getting old is worse. ;-)


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Not getting old is worse. ;-)
> 
> - Combo Prof


Very true, at 32 I dream of retirement to get here, but at the same time I don't want to rush through my kids lives, it's bad enough it seems to fly by now, seems like yesterday I was bringing home my son and he'll be 5 in a month. I just wish I could skip over the 9-5 job time and just cherish the family time and my precious little woodworking/tool refurb time.


----------



## DLK

2 years and I am retired. Seems like yesterday, I was younger, then the students I was teaching and making light of my elders. Now I am the elder in the department.


----------



## WayneC

Time goes too fast. Enjoy it.


----------



## bobasaurus

One of Wilding's ovolo planes is available for a charity auction by Richard Arnold on the facebook unplugged woodworkers group and his instagram. I have a bid on it, we'll see. There are some other nice tools on there… if all my bids go through I'll be a poor man but a happy one.


----------



## JayT

Anyone else following Konrad Sauer's plane build on his Instagram?

Really cool to watch all the short videos of his processes and amazing how much hand work goes into his tools, as opposed to some other planemakers that are essentially machinists. Not saying either way is necessarily better, just very different. To me, though, it does explain part of why Sauer & Steiner planes flow so well-some is design, but a lot is the organic result of using the body's natural motions to make something instead of a machine that operates on axes.


----------



## bobasaurus

Yeah, I've been following him for a while. Super fun to see the progress steps and his mastery of each.


----------



## onoitsmatt

Me too. Good stuff.

I follow LJs Bobasaurus and Bearatwood too. They're no slouches either.


----------



## bobasaurus

Hey, thanks Matt. Didn't know you were on there, I'll check out your page. Brian/Bearkat is really amazing at furniture building and saw making. The saw he made me is beautiful.


----------



## onoitsmatt

Thanks Allen. I've only been on instagram for a couple of months. Lots of LJs with good feeds. Floriptoolworks is another good one but can't remember Erik's LJ name.


----------



## rtbrmb

onoitsmatt - I think you are referring to ErikF


----------



## onoitsmatt

I am indeed. He just posted some saw handles on the saw thread. He's got a great instagram feed under floriptoolworks.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Haha getting old sucks, at least he s at the top of the pile now, so whenever I scrape the money together I ll be grabbing a half set of hollows and rounds. Anyone have an idea of his prices I only looked quick, but didn t see any?
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


I hate to quote his prices when I don't remember for sure. A hollow & round set was $300ish. I know his prices are lower than Bickford's.

I follow those guys on Instagram too. That's a great little App for makers. My screen name is the same as my website. Not that I've been doing a lot of woodworking lately. Shoot, I'm going fishing all next week;-)


----------



## TheFridge

I did a lot of looking into making a set of hollows and rounds. The more I thought about it the more I figured I needed carving tools not molding planes. So I have a Mary may beginner set on the way with the appropriate fixins. One day when I have a lot of extra time and money I'll make a set of H&Rs but not now.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

Just noticed this limited run, kinda steep ! https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/no4-12-bronze


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Just noticed this limited run, kinda steep ! https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/no4-12-bronze
> 
> - TheTurtleCarpenter


If I could afford that right now, I'd be all over that.


----------



## bobasaurus

> Just noticed this limited run, kinda steep ! https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/no4-12-bronze
> 
> - TheTurtleCarpenter


Wow, wish they made it at a reasonable cost. That is ridiculously priced. But I love my bronze #4 so much…


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Wow, wish they made it at a reasonable cost. That is ridiculously priced. But I love my bronze #4 so much…
> 
> - bobasaurus


Ditto I even got a Cocobolo knob and tote for mine, thing is a work of art, and planes like a dream.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

I don't know how many were in this run but there are 27 left, I wonder how long they will last .?


----------



## Mosquito

Yikes, at that jump (bronze 4 to bronze 4-1/2) I'd hate to see what a Bronze #8 would cost.. at that ratio (iron to bronze on the 4-1/2) it'd be $1100 lol


----------



## TheFridge

I think I'd rather a bronze #9


----------



## terryR

> I think I d rather a bronze #9
> 
> - TheFridge


still waiting for yer deposit to clear, buddy.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dang. that bronze 4 1/2 would be a stout smoother. I do know that they usually stop at the no 4 because the manganese bronze castings are very temperamental when they get any bigger. I guess the warp/rejection rate is silly.


----------



## ColonelTravis

So is the bronze more hefty? I love the heft of my normal LN 4 1/2.

A few weeks ago I ordered a Veritas skew rabbet with a PM-V11 blade and it was on back order (because they ran out of blades) until early July. Then it was pushed back to July 14. Now it's been pushed back to July 28. I figure I'll get it by Christmas 2019.

None of my blades or chisels are PM-V11 and I almost said - screw it, just give me O1. But they're out of that now, too. I'll stick with the PM-V11 since I've never used it and want to. Is all of Canada on vacation???


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bronze is a bit heavier, though I'm not sure it makes a huge difference on the planes performance. I do enjoy not worrying about rust.


----------



## TheFridge

> I think I d rather a bronze #9
> 
> - TheFridge
> 
> still waiting for yer deposit to clear, buddy.
> 
> - terryR


Yeah terry I need a good reminder every now and again  squirrell!

Edit: I have a LJ buddy By the name of Robert Porter starting to build a variety of tools. Can't wait to get them in and show them off. Hopefully once he gets going he can get a website going.


----------



## JADobson

> Is all of Canada on vacation???
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Well, when summer only lasts three weeks…


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Bronze is a bit heavier, though I m not sure it makes a huge difference on the planes performance. I do enjoy not worrying about rust.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


That's one reason for loving the bronze, that and I just like the way it looks. I guess I'm guilty of wanting cool looking tools as well, but I plan to be buried with it, well unless my son or daughter is going to be a woodworker then I may leave it behind…maybe.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Ordered the PM-V11 Veritas skew rabbet in June, it was pushed back to being available the first week of July then July 14 then July 28 and now August 18.

Ugh.

They're also saying they won't get O1 blades until September 15. A2 is available, I can't stand A2. Wonder what the heck happened at the factory?


----------



## mramseyISU

> Is all of Canada on vacation???
> 
> - ColonelTravis
> 
> *Well, when summer only lasts three weeks…*
> 
> - JADobson


I laughed at that a little harder than I should have.


----------



## August

What do you guys think? Yay or nay?


----------



## theoldfart

Yay x 2!


----------



## ToddJB

Yay. though maybe ease the edges more. Looks sharp.


----------



## August

Thanks Kevin

It's not done yet i literally just made this just for fun 
Took me less than 1-1/2 hrs. to make this it will get buff and shined up so it will have a miniature bling to it 
Thanks

I guess marking gauges is an addiction


----------



## bobasaurus

August, that looks neat. I think a chamfer on the barrel would look neat too.

Here is an interesting how it's made about plastic-handled chisels:






Not positive these are American made, but it's neat to watch. Interesting that all the grinding is after heat treatment.


----------



## August

Thanks Allen 
That's a good point the o my bad news now it will be hard to put it back on the lathe,.
I did not have a plan at all yesterday I was just having fun,.

BRK and I spoke the other day 
On what to do with my extra brass 
I told him maybe we can wake up the brass hammer again.
Or we can make hammer and this gauge too,

The cutter was bought from lie Nielsen 
And the stainless shaft is cheap


----------



## terryR

Nice, August. Jealous of your metal working skills.










One on the left was first, filled with Brazilian ebony and being used to make the rest. other is stuffed with Cocobolo.

Still working on my hacksaw skills. And spending all my tool allowance on better files.


----------



## August

What are you taking about terry you do better job in metal than me,.

Your handplane are beautiful


----------



## DanKrager

These home made tools are getting ridiculous! Look at how beautiful they are, and fully functional. It would be a joy to own any of them! Nice work, gentlemen.

I'm gonna hafta up my jig game…

DanK


----------



## bobasaurus

So, this may not count as a tool per say but I wanted to show it off to my wood friends here. It was made in America (by me, in my garage), so hopefully it counts.

I forged this pattern-welded damascus fork out of bandsaw blades and pallet strapping. It's just a simple twist pattern, but I think it came out well.

My first attempt at making one failed, as I managed to snap off the tips after heat treatment when trying to un-bend them from a warp. So this is the second fork from the remainder of the billet.


----------



## JayT

Wicked cool, Allen. I'll take a service for 8.


----------



## bigblockyeti

I'd poke a steak with that.


----------



## TheFridge

August, terry, bob.

Some fantastic stuff going on.

I'm not one to make utensils but that fork is chub worthy. No lie.

Yeti said it best.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Badass Allen. I remember you talking about that undertaking at Handworks. It turned out great.


----------



## bobasaurus

Thanks a lot. I work slowly, so it took me over 2 months to finish the stupid thing (including breaking the first and starting over). I want to make an axe, but I think it's above my skill level right now. Maybe I'll start by forging an axe eye drift… pretty much a tapered squashed cylinder. I have another billet started, this time with better steel instead of random junk I found.


----------



## TheFridge

You can make an axe bob. You got that. Or the sweetest hatchet known to man to start with


----------



## WhoMe

Way cool stuff guys. One of these days I hope to make something as nice as what you guys make.


----------



## August

I love those forks

Hey folks I got my hands on some rail rod track

And I'm going to build me a small workbench anvil

If anybody is interested let me know

And any thoughts on how to cut it nicely?


----------



## bobasaurus

> I love those forks
> 
> Hey folks I got my hands on some rail rod track
> 
> And I m going to build me a small workbench anvil
> 
> If anybody is interested let me know
> 
> And any thoughts on how to cut it nicely?
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Thanks August. Railroad track makes for a pretty good anvil. You could flatten the top, shape a pointed horn, and cut a hardy hole in one side to make it like a normal anvil. Milling the top would be the easiest way to flatten it (if you have access to a mill), or maybe belt sander with a coarse belt and a lot of time.


----------



## August

Thanks Allen 
I do have a Bridgeport 
But my main question is how to cut it,.
To length?
Anyway I'm felling nice and behave so I want to check out Christmas list on who's been good LOL


----------



## bobasaurus

I would use an angle grinder with a cutoff wheel, and approach from all sides (wear lots of PPE though, angle grinders are scary). If there is some material remaining on the center, you could maybe cold chisel it apart or use a hacksaw at that point.


----------



## August

Thanks Allen ok cool 
Well I have 8' of it 
So I guess I'll be busy cutting


----------



## ToddJB

I'd leave it 8' long for making long swords


----------



## bobasaurus

Heck, you could make a long sword out of it. I saw that once on the man at arms youtube channel. It's probably good mid-carbon steel for swordmaking too.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

August find someone with a powered metal bandsaw or hacksaw, might have to cut slow, but it will be a hell of a lot quicker than trying to do it with an angle grinder and a lot less dangerous. Any metal/welding shop should have one.


----------



## August

I know only Todd would say that I actually do need an 8' sword LOL 
Good point Allen I wonder what kind of metal it is I bet BRK would know

Thanks nick actually I do have a I can take it too it's a just a pain to lug that heavy thing

Good advice there since it won't cost me anything hmmmm

Well folks let me know if you guys want some


----------



## rad457

Depending on the grade of steel, you may have a hard time cutting it with a hacksaw,
best bet is one of them gas powered cutoff saws. Think you can rent them from the Home Depot?


----------



## DanKrager

A giant cutoff saw is what the rail maintenance people use. I'd go that route because I have a suspicion that the rail will wipe the teeth off a band saw. I also suspect that the hardness will vary across a section of it, the top part being pretty hard while the web and base would be more malleable. Get extra blades because a blade will likely make only two cuts. There's a LOT of steel in rails. I have a 12" section of some code 100 mainline rail. Awesome stuff. It's been beat upon with the best I have and there are no marks.

DanK


----------



## terryR

Very cool fork! Cannot wait till you are selling billets. 

Yeah, August, slice me off a foot and stick her in the mail.  My anvil is rusted and nasty, but works just fine. Peining nails yesterday to add a nib.










And, finally finished this 10" Miter plane. Iron is 1.5" wide and bedded at 20 degrees. Infill is Cocobolo. Very comfortable to use!



















Due to mistakes during peining, there are ugly gaps in the DT's, but I've learned what caused the mistakes, and how to correct them. So, this one is not for sale.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Due to mistakes during peining, there are ugly gaps in the DT s, but I ve learned what caused the mistakes, and how to correct them. So, this one is not for sale.
> 
> - terryR


Yeah you better send that to me for a closer inspection and I'll get back to you on how to fix them, then I'll just hang onto the plane because you don't want your mistakes out there in the open…yah friggin kiddin me, that thing still looks amazing even with some tiny gaps, sell it as a factory second lol


----------



## jmartel

Posted this in the SOTS thread last night, but I got started on a dovetail saw yesterday. Blackburn 10" kit, using some of the crazy Koa I bought when I was in Hawaii earlier this year.


----------



## JayT

That's going to look killer, jbusy. Which material do you get for the spine of that saw, brass or bronze?

Then again, it's already on record that I like sapwood/heartwood saw totes.


----------



## jmartel

Brass. Bronze wasn't offered in dovetail sizes unfortunately.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Can't wait to see that handle when done. I got a koa uke from Hawaii long time ago, not cheap but looks and plays great. Love that wood.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Not that anyone cares but I have officially sworn off A2 steel. Sick of the brittleness, sick of the longer sharpening time. A lot of the wood I use has crazy grain and is fairly dense, I'm not seeing enough edge-retention-time to make it worth my while.

Dimensioned some boards today and I stopped and said - screw it. Ordered a O1 Hock and a PM-V11.


----------



## rad457

> Not that anyone cares but I have officially sworn off A2 steel. Sick of the brittleness, sick of the longer sharpening time. A lot of the wood I use has crazy grain and is fairly dense, I m not seeing enough edge-retention-time to make it worth my while.
> 
> Dimensioned some boards today and I stopped and said - screw it. Ordered a O1 Hock and a PM-V11.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Have you tried the PMV-11 ? Changed out all my Stanley's, fantastic Irons.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Not that anyone cares but I have officially sworn off A2 steel. Sick of the brittleness, sick of the longer sharpening time. A lot of the wood I use has crazy grain and is fairly dense, I m not seeing enough edge-retention-time to make it worth my while.
> 
> Dimensioned some boards today and I stopped and said - screw it. Ordered a O1 Hock and a PM-V11.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


I thought O1 was softer than A2, wouldn't you be sharpening even more with that? I know you can get a keener edge, but if you work hard exotics with crazy grain wouldn't this work against you and make it even more sharpening?

Excuse my ignorance as I have mostly A2 in my planes and Japanese white steel chisels.


----------



## jmartel

Sharpening more often, but sharpening is easier and faster.


----------



## TheFridge

August, todd isn't the only one. Please make a sword 

I strop A2 with the hair on my thigh. For reshaping the bevel I use the hair between my ankle and calf. Then just move on up.


----------



## ColonelTravis

If I had only known fridge's secret….

Yeah I don't mind sharpening, I just don't like sharpening the same piece of steel forever. But also the nicks I get in A2 are a PITA.

Have not used the PM-V11, but a rabbet plane I've had on order since it seems like 1987 is supposed to ship with that blade today. Yesterday ordered a regular bench plane blade on faith that I'd like it.


----------



## TheFridge

The only things that I am positive are A2 is all the LN stuff I got. Don't know what a typical Stanley plane iron would be. I've just never had much trouble with sharpening A2. Then again. My leg hair always grows back


----------



## TheFridge

A buddy of mines





































You roll the string up in the wheel when done ^ if you were inclined to use it in the first place  he making other tools as well. Can't wait to get what he's making me.


----------



## BillWhite

Andrew, those are absolutely wonderful. Robert does some pretty darned good/great work.
Classics for sure.
Bill


----------



## TheFridge

That he does Bill.


----------



## August

Those are. Nice fridge careful frank klaus might buy them from you


----------



## ColonelTravis

> if you were inclined to use it in the first place  he making other tools as well. Can t wait to get what he s making me.
> 
> - TheFridge


Awesome, lucky you. I'd be afraid to take any of that stuff out of a glass display case.


----------



## TheFridge

August, not mine. Just some pics he sent that I can post.

Col, the other stuff will be made to be used so I can provide feedback. So it will definitely be used.


----------



## ColonelTravis

I own 4 brands of card scrapers. Compared them all on a project I'm working on now. No contest - Bearkat's is the best. I know Red has said this, he is correct. The steel is superior.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yep, The Bearkat scraper is still my fav. I recenctly used the "head" of the bear to clean up these ogee's.


----------



## bobasaurus

Those are some fine boxes, Red.


----------



## rad457

Pretty quiet here? Just got a new Veritas Router with all the goodies and was comparing it to the 
Stanley #71. Kind of strange looking at the old compared to the new.
Wonder how old my #71 is ?


----------



## bigblockyeti

My 71 is in need of blades, did yours come with them or did you have to source them? I've heard the Veritas blades will fit the 71, can you confirm this?


----------



## terryR

Your friend does splendid work, Fridge.

Red, the carved names sure make those boxes stand out.

Most recent infill, classic miter plane with a bent back. I chose Honduras Rosewood for the infill. 20 degree bedding angle.


----------



## DLK

> My 71 is in need of blades, did yours come with them or did you have to source them? I ve heard the Veritas blades will fit the 71, can you confirm this?
> 
> - bigblockyeti


The veritas blades do fit the Stanley 71. They even say this:

*Plane Blades for the Veritas® Router and Hinge Mortise Planes*

Our high-carbon steel router plane blades fit our Veritas Router Plane and our Veritas Hinge Mortise Plane, as well as Stanley #71 router planes (with the height-adjustment nut inverted).

See them here.

Also Lee Valley has free shiping right now ( August 29 to September 11).

And incidentally I in fact use them in my Stanley 71, 71 1/2 and Miller Falls 77.


----------



## WayneC

Also the Stanley cutters fit in the Veritas. They also fit in the Veritas medium router which does not have a much bigger foot print of a small router plane.


----------



## rad457

When I got my 71 it was like new c/w both 1/2" blades and a 1/4" in the box with all the paperwork!
Nice to have open and closed mouth designs, adjustment on the Veritas real nice and now have all the blade sizes I should ever need, plus now I have a Inlay cutter head!


----------



## WayneC

Also, the cutters work in their Hinge Mortise Plane.


----------



## rad457

> Also the Stanley cutters fit in the Veritas. They also fit in the Veritas medium router which does not have a much bigger foot print of a small router plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info, just went on my wish list! I was actually looking for something smaller than the 71!
> 
> - WayneC


----------



## DLK

> Thanks for the info, just went on my wish list! I was actually looking for something smaller than the 71!
> 
> - WayneC
> 
> - Andre


There is also the Stanley 271:










A blade can be made from an alan wrench. Or you can buy one from Lee Valley.


----------



## WayneC

The Veritas Medium above will take narrower Stanley 71 cutters and the Veritas Large cutters.

There are a number of small routers in addition to the Stanley 271 if anyone is looking for them.

Lie-Nielson 271 (open and closed throat manual)
Veritas Small router plane
Sargent 73
Record 733
Preston 22
Also St. James Bay has at least 3 clones (271 Clone, 271 Clone with Depth Stop, and Sargent 73 clone)
Wide Variety of pattern maker routers.


----------



## PPK

Terry, how is the blade wedge in place in your plane? Forgive my ignorance. I don't see a pin or anything. Fantastic build, btw.

I just got a veritas router plane in the mail yesterday, along with a small box of chinaberry wood… it was a good day coming home from work! I'm excited to try out the router plane on tenons. I was really amazed at the detail and how nicely everything is machined on that tool. I've never seen anything like it. It makes it seem more worth the rather high price.


----------



## terryR

Pete, the steel bridge is attached to the sides with M/T joints, then peined.


----------



## Just_Iain

> Thanks for the info, just went on my wish list! I was actually looking for something smaller than the 71!
> 
> - WayneC
> 
> - Andre
> 
> There is also the Stanley 271:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A blade can be made from an alan wrench. Or you can buy one from Lee Valley.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I just pulled my Stanley #271 out an hour ago. A patch of surface rust had started in one of the top 'quadrants' has spread to fill the whole quadrant. So later I'll add a little Evapo-rust and clean it up. Used it a lot when fitting door lock set back in 80's and 90's along with the #71. Good to hear that the LV blades will work in it. I remember my brother was cynical about it at first but in the end started borrowing it. Along with a few other 'weird' tools I acquired over the years.


----------



## knockknock

The fun of using a toothed blade in my Veritas small bevel up smoother:


----------



## Mosquito

Love it knockknock. I had that set up in my cart for a little while, but haven't found the disposable funds to pull the trigger yet lol. I've been looking at it for hammer veneer prep


----------



## ColonelTravis

I'm a huge toothed blade fan. HUGE! I only have one, but if there is a toothed blade fan club, I wouldn't mind being an officer. Not the president. But definitely something like treasurer or secretary. I would always be among the first to get any hot new toothed blade information.

Back to reality - never thought of using it to clean up dovetail sides. I'll keep that in mind. I've got a L-N LA jack but the only difference between it and the LV smoother would just be length, right?


----------



## knockknock

> Back to reality - never thought of using it to clean up dovetail sides. I ll keep that in mind. I ve got a L-N LA jack but the only difference between it and the LV smoother would just be length, right?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


I think that is the only difference in this usage. I used the toothed blade so I could ignore grain direction.


----------



## DLK

> Love it knockknock. I had that set up in my cart for a little while, but haven t found the disposable funds to pull the trigger yet lol. I ve been looking at it for hammer veneer prep
> 
> - Mosquito


I rather like this idea of Paul Sellers for a poor man's toothing plane made from a hacksaw blade … at least for veneering.


----------



## NateCreates83

Setting the hoop on a chisel, any help?


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Setting the hoop on a chisel, any help?
> 
> - NateCreates83


A Japanese chisel? If so here's the best method I've found and one of the easiest that requires a bare minimum of tools.

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/wordpress/?p=589


----------



## Mosquito

> I rather like this idea of Paul Sellers for a poor man s toothing plane made from a hacksaw blade … at least for veneering.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Yeah, that's similar to what I've been doing to date. I have a section of saw plate that I toothed but just never sharpened. It's essentially the same idea, and it does work. But, new toy lol


----------



## DLK

This guy made his own http://www.andrewcarruthers.com/toothed-plane-blade/ . You could use it in a stanley, make your own plane, or pay terry to make one.


----------



## terryR

.


----------



## August

It's not a woodworking tool 
But it can. Be 
It's a rebuilt and all the ways have been hand scrape
All it needs a fresh coat of paint


----------



## TheFridge

Tools to build tools to build tools  it's a wonderful thing


----------



## ToddJB

Someday I will have a Bridgeport. Someday.


----------



## TheFridge

> Someday I will have a Bridgeport. Someday.
> 
> - ToddJB


Ditto. Or at least a handsome partner. Friend. With one.


----------



## DLK

*Wanted*
Handsome partner

Must be able to sweep, sharpen and polish.
Must have milling machine.

Send picture of bridgeport.


----------



## HokieKen

It's not a Bridgeport but if I had 3-phase and somewhere to set this baby, I'd go get it today.

Journeyman CNC Vertical Mill


----------



## TheFridge

Kenny…. VFDs can be had for 200$... we will enable….


----------



## bigblockyeti

The desire for 3 phase power attracts many woodworkers! I only have 60A service going to my shop so a RPC would be have limited capability but I did just buy a project planer to give me a little more capacity than my 12.5" dewalt. It's of an American company but made in Italy and it's not very modern either but it is heavy.


----------



## DLK

> It s not a Bridgeport but if I had 3-phase and somewhere to set this baby, I d go get it today.
> 
> Journeyman CNC Vertical Mill
> 
> - HokieKen





> Kenny…. VFDs can be had for 200$... we will enable….
> 
> - TheFridge


I got a Teco FM50 a VFD from Factorymation and have never been happier.


----------



## August

I have one vfd and one rotary phase converter if anyone is interested just shipping


----------



## ToddJB

Auggie, what's the make and model of the VFD? Might fit one of the two projects I've got going.


----------



## bigblockyeti

That rotary phase converter could work for me for a smaller 3ph machine I need to get running, what's the horsepower rating?


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny…. VFDs can be had for 200$... we will enable….
> 
> - TheFridge


Awesome Fridge! Now just tell me how to "Tardis" my shop…


----------



## TheFridge

Kenny. You can't use big words like that around me. I don't understand them.


----------



## HokieKen

Bigger on the inside Fridge… Dr. Who reference. Sorry, I forget not everyone's a dork ;-P


----------



## DLK

Ah … I thought you meant you had to travel back in time to get it.


----------



## August

> That rotary phase converter could work for me for a smaller 3ph machine I need to get running, what s the horsepower rating?
> 
> - bigblockyeti


the rotary phase is not that big its rated for 1-1/2 horse 
pictures is coming in a few


----------



## August




----------



## BigRedKnothead

This forum kinda fell asleep. I forgot remind ya'll of Lee Valley's Cyber Monday sale last night. Some solid deals on factory seconds there. I got my Veritas shooting plane via that sale a few years back. Anybody else snag any goods?


----------



## Mosquito

I also got my shooting plane from the sale 2 or 3 years ago. I almost pulled the trigger on a low angle block plane, but it was sold out by the time I got to checkout


----------



## jmartel

Was debating picking up a custom 4 1/2, but it sold out in the time it took me to decide.


----------



## bobasaurus

I picked up a discounted gift card to use the next time they have free shipping. Didn't last year and regretted it when I inevitably had to order something. Was eyeing the DX60 but I really don't need yet another block plane, fancy though it is.


----------



## ColonelTravis

JMart I'll make the decision for you for Cyber Monday 2018: get it! I've got the LN version and my regular 4s just sit collecting dust. Everyone's different, but over time I've found out I prefer big mass on my bench planes.


----------



## jmartel

I'm likely going to buy the LN version. That was my original plan, but then I saw the LV one on cyber monday for way less.


----------



## TheFridge

This thing is gonna be awake after Christmas 

This is gonna be the year of small goodies for me.


----------



## rad457

> I picked up a discounted gift card to use the next time they have free shipping. Didn t last year and regretted it when I inevitably had to order something. Was eyeing the DX60 but I really don t need yet another block plane, fancy though it is.
> 
> - bobasaurus


I picked up the DX60 a few months ago to replace my Stanley 60 1/2 (with a PMV -11 iron), yes it is a better plane! But still usually grab my LN 102 for most of the small stuff?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I have two LN 102's. I've had such good luck with LNs that I even found a 102 at the only estate sale I've ever been to;-)

I already had one….but I've convinced myself I need two - for two different setups:
1) sharp
2) dull

LMRHBO 
(laughing my red-haired butt off)


----------



## ColonelTravis

If I ever see anything LN at any estate sale, no matter what, I'm buying it. I've never been that fortunate.

Wondering if anyone uses a large saddle square vs. conventional way (comb. square or whatnot) to mark around a board?


----------



## bobasaurus

I use their regular saddle square a lot, but I like the look of that large one too.


----------



## TheFridge

I have the regular one on the way for xmas. Like their DT markers too.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Colonel. Pretty sure I hip-checked some elderly dude to grab that 102. I apologize for that Lord.

I have a little combo square I use for anything like that. I love me some Lee Valley…but sometimes the make stuff to fix problems that weren't really problems in the first place. Not as bad a Rockler though;-)

I stayed up Sunday night just to see if they'd have any PmV11 chisels. I'd have even went for a trio…but I didn't get too excited about a single 1/4".


----------



## bigblockyeti

> (laughing my red-haired butt off)
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Now that paints a picture that will be hard to forget!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Where the Red Fern Grows??

I knew you guys missed me around here;-P


----------



## ColonelTravis

Funny, yeah estate sales can be crazy. I've seen angry stares and people kinda yelling at each other and some minor hip checks. My favorite thing is the guy who leans close to someone, looking at something in front of the other person, then slowly leans some more, then the original guy is forced to leave or is blocked out like under a basketball net for the rebound and all of a sudden the new guy is now in front of the item. Maybe one day I'll see a full blown-out fight.

PMV11 chisels are next on my purchase list. We'll see what Santa has to say about it and go from there.

So the large saddle square idea came to me because I was working on some desk legs and I had my small combo square set for something and my large one set to something and I was thinking - man, I am really lazy and don't want to keep re-setting these squares. Reminds me of a Brian Regan routine where he's talking about a company that came out with peanut butter and jelly in the same jar - I could go for a sandwich but man, I'm not gonna open two jars.

Also have several small-ish engineering squares that I use every now and then. But having something go around the edge of a leg? Sweet luxury. I don't know, I'm pretty frugal and don't buy a lot of unnecessary crap but in this case I just might do it.


----------



## terryR

Have wanted a saddle square for a while.

Here is an infilled square I tried a month or so ago. Trying to secure the brass with screws was not the way; I'll dovetail it next attempt. Stabilized burl for the infill,










I should have a web address available any day now where you guys can purchase infill planes.


----------



## DLK

> Have wanted a saddle square for a while.
> 
> - terryR


I bet you could make one!


----------



## terryR

Yes to that, Don! Infilled, of course. 

Here is a 4" long dovetailed steel thumb plane you guys may have missed. Iron is 1" wide. African Blackwood.










I just spent my B-day money on layout tools to improve my work, and a ton of brass/bronze. Going after this full force! Only regret is I didn't start a decade ago


----------



## woodcox

Amazing Terry! I like that bun.

Do you anticipate continuing with the handwork or incorporating more milling processes along the way?


----------



## terryR

All by hand, wc.
No plans to buy a mill any more.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Terry it's been a blast to watch you're journey. I'm not surprised at all by the quality of tools coming out of your shop these days. Soon you'll have a booth next to Conrad Sauer at Handworks

I follow ol Conrad on istagram. He blows my shizzle away.

Exhibit A:


----------



## TheFridge

I really hope bodily fluids don't leave marks. Otherwise, I don't have a chance of being in the same room as that thing. I want an infill like that one day. Along with a TR special.


----------



## terryR

Conrad is very skilled. That is THE plane I'd like to build one day. Lots of challenges. Impossible to justify the cost of such a tool in my shop, but I hope you girls have full checking accounts. 

Especially Fridge.


----------



## TheFridge

I tried to get in line early but unfortunately I have to pay of a crapload of my wife's credit card debt before I can spend on a big ticket item.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Heh, heh. He said "body fluids."

Exhibit B:









And C:









Ok, I might be done.

But honestly, what I dig most about Conrad - at an event like Handworks, he's the most approachable/chill guy in the entire place. So easy to talk to. I honestly don't think he believes he is any better than any other woodworker fondling tools in that entire barn. Admirable trait.


----------



## TheFridge

He does some filthy work.


----------



## jmartel

B, then A, then C for me in order of goodness.


----------



## ColonelTravis

In the next Star Wars movie, if someone was working with hand planes, they would use B. My vote = Jmart's but they're all wonderful.


----------



## DLK

Quick question: Are all the 4-piece (black emery, brown tripoli, white diamond and red rouge) Polishing Compound Kits the same? Is one brand better than another?


----------



## ColonelTravis

Don I've bought everything from Harbor Freight to Woodstock and I like Woodstock because it works just fine to me, and you get a lot for a good price. In fact, with Woodstock I doubt I'll ever have to buy any more ever again in my life.

Woodstock green on amazon.

It's the one color you didn't ask about but they sell all grades - except I didn't see black on amazon.

EDIT - yes they do sell black except it's not black. Gal-darn it, Woodstock!


----------



## DLK

I didn't ask about green because I have more green then I will ever use. I picked up a 4 pack from Menards and was wondering if it was any good or more precisely if there was better. Or perhaps I just shouldn't worry about it. Anyway thanks for the link.


----------



## CL810

Don, Joel at TFWW says that compounds made for tools outside of woodworking have coarser grits even though they are green. TFWW offers a microfine green compound.

https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/blog/529/The%20Tools%20of%20Stropping


----------



## DLK

Colonel and Dan. I guess I am being a little mysterious. The idea is to apply black, brown, white etc. to MDF thus obtaining coarse/fine sharpening "stones" or slips for molding plane irons carving tools etc. Determining what the effective grit is will be challenging. I think it depends on the manufacture and the surface the compound it's applied to.


----------



## TheFridge

I thought about doing that with diamond film. Got the film. Just never done her.


----------



## ColonelTravis

OK gotcha. While back I bought that Slip Strop thing, comes with whatever their yellow is supposed to be.










It's ok, not great. Kinda flimsy, I'd rather have something like you're doing. For gouges I use that for the concave side, I've also got a round curved india stone. I sharpen the outer curve on waterstones. Only molding planes I use are hollows and rounds and I still haven't mastered those so I haven't had to sharpen them much, When I did, I think I used sandpaper and a fine file. If you get your system up and running I'd like to see what it is.


----------



## summerfi

American made. Read about this new saw in my blog: Making a (Very) Small Dovetail Saw.


----------



## rad457

Nice little saw Bob, you ever get a chance to work with that Doussie?
I picked these up to work on my limited carving tools.
Lee Valley of course, 1000 and 4000.


----------



## summerfi

Not yet Andre. It's still here waiting for a project.


----------



## terryR

Beautiful work, Bob!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Hey ye North American toolmakers. Have any of you every made your own carbide turning tools? I'm set up (bought my shafts from woodtick), but I know other folks who'd like some input.


----------



## JayT

Yes, bought cutters from Arizona Carbide and made the tools from 1/2in key stock for the square and round cutters and 3/8 key stock for the diamond shaped detailer. Very happy with the larger pieces and feel that I need to redo the detailer. Getting a recess for the diamond shaped cutter wasn't easy and it didn't come out that well, though is still usable.


----------



## TheFridge

Christmas goodies.



















Pre Christmas goodies


----------



## rad457

Built this rougher from some extra inserts left over from the planner. Had bought a set of East woods but found them a little short. I find I use the round finishing tool the most so will get some round inserts and build another longer version!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice fellas. I thought you'd made your own JayT. Maybe Todd too. Made in 'merica!

Nice haul there Fridge. You know I'm a spoiled brat because I couldn't think of any tools I need/wanted other than a 3rd set of chisels…lol.


----------



## TheFridge

Same here  I piled on the little goodies this time around. Now I just need a mill and a lathe


----------



## terryR

I made a handle for a 1/2" shank and round carbide cutter. Useless since it chatters so much. Hmmm, maybe I could remove more stock and have a texturing tool?


----------



## ToddJB

I made mine, too, Red.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Bought some carbide cutters for my El-Crap-o lathe not too long ago, they are great.
Awesome haul, Fridge. Also had a very Lee Valley Christmas this year, in gift card form. Ordered:

A much-needed medium router plane, which seems to have taken care of the deficiencies of the LN and LV small router plane. I thought long and hard about the miniature one like Fridge got, it was basically a toss-up between that and the medium. Fridge - down the road I'd like to know how you like the miniature. The medium is only a little larger than the small, so says this photo:










One 17 1/2" plane stop, which some may say is lazy and if that's you I would say - you are correct. But I don't have a tail vice, I've never been satisfied with any of the various stops I've made and this wasn't very expensive. I believe this will solve my frustration. Will also come in handy with a holdfast and notched batten, I use that fairly often.










A 3/8 PMV-11 chisel to see if it's worth getting more down the road. I expect to cut myself multiple times per day on that beveled edge. Don't want to make it dull initially because I like the idea of it being somewhat sharp so it can get into corners and sides. We'll see how that goes. Maybe dull the upper end.









4-way clamping thing, because I hate trying to clamp stuff with 4 corners with the garbage I have now. If I make more boxes I'll order another one.


----------



## ColonelTravis

dang double post


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah budy.

After seeing someone obliterate a plane iron with a brass bench dog I've been hesitant to use any king of metallic work stop.

Will do. At a glance I would put it in the "serviceable" category.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Right now my stop is 2 giant C clamps holding down a thin strip of wood and I've hit those stupid clamps more times than I care to remember. I also wondered about a metal stop but it's under 1/4" tall, hopefully that's good enough for a clod like me. I also use a couple steel dogs, have never hit those. Watch my luck run out and ruin every blade starting immediately in Jan. 2018.


----------



## rad457

I have the plane stops, have never even come close to hitting them?
Picked up that corner clamp jig years ago, make sure to get the extensions! Have used it for a lot of different things and usually an inch short.
Put the Medium Router plane back on to the wish list? Don't really need it but maybe next project, got the large one and absolutely love it !!!!!


----------



## RPhillips

> Yes, bought cutters from Arizona Carbide and made the tools from 1/2in key stock for the square and round cutters and 3/8 key stock for the diamond shaped detailer. Very happy with the larger pieces and feel that I need to redo the detailer. Getting a recess for the diamond shaped cutter wasn t easy and it didn t come out that well, though is still usable.
> 
> - JayT


Thanks for bringing this topic Red, and JayT for posting the info.

I just bought a Jet 1220VS lathe and will need to get some turning tools. As of now, I have nothing, so I guess I'll have top buy something cheap so I can make my own turning tools.

Happy New Years everyone.


----------



## RPhillips

Oh, forgot to add….

Can anyone recommend some decent starter tools? Not much budget left for tools as I spent quite a bit more on the lathe than I initially intended, but I would like to have some pick up something US made if possible.

Interested in turning: bowls, boxes, and shop tools (handles, etc.) to start.

Ill hit up the turning threads too…


----------



## ToddJB

Dave Kelley, a fellow LJ here, makes great tools. Sells them here.

https://www.kelleycrafts.com/tools/


----------



## terryR

Have a Jet1220vs, find it easily addictive. very easy.

Grab a set of Nova chucks and jaws. Usually the G3 is on sale with a set of 3 jaws. Get it. You'll want them for bowl turning, and tons of stuff.


----------



## DanKrager

I just spent two days in the shop showing and teaching 3 grandkids how to use the lathe and carve. Turning and carving spoons seemed to be a way to teach both concepts on a project simple enough they could go home with one each. Didn't bother to teach them beginners "scraping cuts" (read carbide tools here)...went straight for the "advanced" skew cut that so few turners really master. Since my lathe is infinite variable speed I had no qualms about safety. At a very slow speed they learned to "ride the bevel" and "feel the cut". Within minutes, each was turning comfortably at 1600 RPM. Using a principle of cutting wood that applies equally well to turning and carving, they quickly mastered the technique. I showed them the difference in the quality of cuts between scraping and shearing, and they were amazed. And no one had a "catch". That amazed me.

I have nothing against carbide turning tools. They have their place. But it is very difficult to achieve the same quality of finish with carbide that can easily be had with sharp steel. M42 is a grade of turning steel that sharpens like steel but is almost as durable as carbide. I have such a tool from Carter and Sons and am very pleased with it. Some of the next generation carbide is reshaped for a compromise cut called shear scraping. Nothing really new about it except that the angles on the carbide bit are closer to the steel angles.

DanK


----------



## JADobson

> Can anyone recommend some decent starter tools? Not much budget left for tools as I spent quite a bit more on the lathe than I initially intended, but I would like to have some pick up something US made if possible.
> 
> - RPhillips


I've got these ones from Lee Valley: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=56745&cat=1,330,56745 not sure where they are made but they work well.


----------



## RPhillips

Thanks for the feedback and links guys. going to follow up on those now.

I'm very excited to get started!


----------



## RPhillips

China called, they want there wall back….

Spam reported…


----------



## G5Flyr

Happy New Year everyone! I hope you all had a wonderful Christmas celebration.

Apologies for being so verbose (below) after not posting for almost an entire year (don't ask).

Here's my two cents on a couple of recent posts:

1st: I have the 17-1/2" plane stop from Veritas. I love it. It is better than anything I've ever made for myself (in that category). Like the Col. I don't have a tail vise. I mostly use the planing stop, a Gramercy holdfast and a doe's foot (ref. Travis' notched stick). I've tried using two different Veritas surface vises as a sub for a tail vise but I prefer the holdfast and the doe's foot.

2nd: Fridge has some legit concerns re wrecking a plane iron with a metal planing stop. I've planed stock as thin as 1/4" on the Veritas plane stop but with great fear and trepidation.

3rd: To thickness anything thinner than a 1/4" I stick the piece to be planed to a long sheet of 3/4" plywood via some double sided turner's tape. The plywood gets butted against the planing stop and held into position with the holdfast and the doe's foot. I used to run the tape the whole length of the work piece but you risk breaking it up when you try to pull it off of the plywood. Guess how I figured that out? Now I put approx. 1-1/2" strip on either end of the piece to be planed. You have to set your plane for super thin shavings, otherwise you get something akin to snipe. The combination of turner's tape being just thick enough to raise the work piece and the work piece being so flexibly thin will cause that.

I discovered this thread last night. Many thanks to Red for starting. I stayed up until 3:00 AM reading (almost) every post.


----------



## theoldfart

Just to stir up a little trouble, the long stop is really not too hard to fabricate. Even I could make one! It runs across the width of my bench and can be used in three different positions.










And I have hit it with several of my planes including my combination plow plane. You can see a little damage on one end. I think it took maybe a half hour or so to make.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> You can see a little damage on one end. I think it took maybe a half hour or so to make.
> 
> - theoldfart


I need that giant magnifier because I see no damage! You're not stirring up trouble - so how do you keep it in/on your bench? Dowel stumps underneath the strip that go into holes in your bench? I see a pair of circles that look larger than the standard 3/4".


----------



## theoldfart

My dog holes are 1". They are wedged dowels. Pic later, time for dinner!


----------



## ColonelTravis

What kind of clamps are holding your moxon? Looks like a C but with a cam.


----------



## theoldfart

Dinner taking longer than expected so …...


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Here's another slick and cheap way to make your homemade bench dogs or stop stay in their HolE!









From Lee Valley. I don't even use the plate - just friction fit the bullet.

Homey don't play with metal on the bench either.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Love the wood stop. Mine has been shipped already, if I'm uncomfortable with it I'll send it back and make a wood one.

This is funny, I don't know why Veritas showed in a video to do this, and I know you can flip the board over or move it down a bit, but using the stop for sawing over the metal made me laugh. Ah, no thanks.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, I've been using them for a while. I picked up a jar full in a box purchase a few years ago.
Drilled two holes, one for a countersink and one for the body. press fit.


















Colonel, it looks like these









Basically a bar clamp with a cam. I've gotten a number of them over the past few years. They hold well and are easy to adjust.


----------



## RPhillips

@TOF Those Moxon vise handles look deadly! but beautiful at the same time. I really need to make me one of those, I'll probably get the benchcrafted hardware.


----------



## theoldfart

Rob, it's not really a Moxon vise but I use it as one. It's actually a bookbinders vise. They clamp the book and trim the edges flush. You can see one in action at Colonial Williamsburg in their bookbinders shop. I have two of them that I picked up at local flea markets for a couple of bucks.


----------



## RPhillips

Oh, I see. I used to live right down the road from Williamsburg… I really enjoyed going there, one of things I miss about not living there anymore.


----------



## theoldfart

I'm going to moss all lot of things after we leave the northeast.

edit: another term for that vise is Lying Vise


----------



## ColonelTravis

Love when the LV delivery truck stops by. Got 2 of 4 things. However, my medium router plane and (seems like anything made of PM-V11) 3/8 chisel are held up by my arch nemesis, UNIT BACKORDERED!

Unit Backordered would be a great character in the Marvel universe. And by "great" I mean "as stupid as the Legion of Super Pets".










The plane stop is light aluminum, I thought it would be a heavy chunk of metal. Don't care either way, just didn't know what to expect. Will see how it dangerous/not-dangerous that is, but the profile is very low, a little lower than I expected, which is nice. Got a ton of picture frames to make with this new 4-corner clamping rod thing.


----------



## TheFridge

4 corner cramping if you speak the real English.


----------



## Just_Iain

> 4 corner cramping if you speak the real English.
> 
> - TheFridge


Be careful Fridge, you shouldn't casually mix English English and American English. LOL


----------



## jmartel

> 4 corner cramping if you speak the real English.
> 
> - TheFridge


I think you need to add a bunch of extra U's in most of your words if you are using real english. And replace some I's randomly with y's.


----------



## ColonelTravis

My longtime arch-enemy Unit Backordered From Lee Valley has been defeated for the first time ever.










Was supposed to be delivered in February, my first PM-V11 chisel arrived today. Lee Valley must have been cracking a bunch of whips at the factory. Kudos, slavedrivers! Comes with a 32 degree microbevel, that's nice. I like the feel of it, it's lighter than I'd thought. Like that it looks like a socket chisel but it also has a tang, so it won't fall out in the cabinet like all my other sockets have. Most of all, I hope the edge lives up to the hype. We will see….


----------



## ColonelTravis

Going to Canada, eh? later this year, would like to stop in a Lee Valley store. Anyone been to one?


----------



## JADobson

I'm a five minute drive away from the location in Saskatoon. What would you like to know?


----------



## ColonelTravis

Headed to Ontario and Quebec. Honestly, I don't know what I want to know. The largest woodworking store I've ever been in is a Woodcraft or Rockler. All I know is that I'll probably be drooling a lot. They sell everything they have online?


----------



## bobasaurus

I made this fancy forging hammer:





































It's a 1 lb pattern-welded cross peen hammer I forged from 1080 and 15n20 steel. The eye was hot punched instead of drilled/milled. I gold plated my logo, though it got a bit messed up in the acid etch. The handle is ash with bajan mahogany pieces laminated on for extra thickness.

Some pics from the build:


----------



## ColonelTravis

Allen that's awesome. Sorry, I don't understand the last picture, is that the same head? There aren't any stripes I see, which is why I ask.


----------



## bobasaurus

> Allen that s awesome. Sorry, I don t understand the last picture, is that the same head? There aren t any stripes I see, which is why I ask.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Thanks. the last picture is before the acid etch. When making pattern-welded "damascus", after grinding it looks like one solid shiny piece of metal. Acid etching eats away one type of steel more than the other (the nickel in 15n20 resists acid), making the pattern.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Got it, thanks.


----------



## JADobson

Beautiful hammer.

Travis - they have a different model than most stores you'll visit. They have some things on display but to buy them you fill out a form (not unlike ordering online) and then an employee goes to the back to get your purchases.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Interesting. Like many shoe stores here. All in the back.

Had a couple friends go to Canada and coincidentally the driver friend had a bunch of tools in the car. Border guys interrogated them and held them for hours because they thought they were trying to work there illegally. Wish I could have seen that. Guy was just lazy and forgot to take them out before the trip. Hopefully that will not be a problem for me going back to the U.S. if I load up. Just gotta make sure the car is tool free once we cross into Canada!


----------



## DLK

> Going to Canada, eh? later this year, would like to stop in a Lee Valley store. Anyone been to one?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Here is my experience at Lee Valley in Manitoba. You enter and start looking around. Many tools are in glass cabinets.
You get assigned a sales clerk, who will take some info and look you up in their system if you have ever bought from LV. Then if you want to see a tool they will get it for you and it will be brought to the counter. So after you have asked to look at a number of tools you go up to the counter and discover they are all on a bill for you to pay. Then you say hey wait a minute I only wanted to look at theses tools not buy them. They take them off the bill. But the real question do you save anything by going to the store. I don't think so, even if there is favorable USD to CDN exchange.
You don't seem to get a better deal than buying online with free shipping. Still yes do go to one and get the experience. Tell us how it went for you.


----------



## DanKrager

CT, the sockets shouldn't be dropping their handles. Either the fit is poor, or it wasn't set well to begin. An old timer taught me this trick, and now this old timer is passing it on. My handles have remained solid that I used this method.

Heat the socket as hot as you can get it without affecting any temper, say maybe 400°. Dampen a well fitted handle by dipping the entire taper into some water quickly and then holding the handle taper up, drop the socket onto the taper and quickly drive the handle into the socket by banging the handle onto an immovable object several times until no further movement can be detected. Allow to cool. The handle should never drop out again.

What seems to make this work is that the hot metal is expanded, of course, but when it hits the water and is forced into solid contact with the wood, the steam does some magic to create a mechanical bond between the wood and steel. The socket continues to shrink as it cools enhancing the mechanical bond. The same principle applies to tanged tools. The mechanical bond can be broken with some vigorous tapping (with wood) around the perimeter of the socket. With patience, the tool will separate from handle. The handle to socket fit is important because a poor fit will allow the mallet blows to destroy whatever little mechanical bond did develop. Oh, and never ream a socket smooth like a Morse taper is.

Good luck.
DanK


----------



## rad457

I usually order on line for store pick up, (reserves it!)

I have brought back a few things from Grizzly in the past and Canadian Customs told me they were Duty Free?

That 4 corner clamp is amazing! Picked it up (with Ext. Kit) years ago, don't use it often but real nice when it is needed.

The Plane stop is great when you mess up like I did drilling dog holes in your bench, have had a couple for years and never ever came close to hitting them.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Dan, thanks. Had not heard of that technique, will definitely try. The handles that come off are my 750s (made in this era, not vintage), plus some nice vintage steel that came with no handle so I had to make them.

I've got a MAP-Pro torch, but wouldn't know when to stop heating. Pretty sure once it starts to turn barely red you are way past 400. Maybe stick it in an oven?


----------



## DanKrager

CT, an oven is a way to go, but that makes the whole tool hot to handle. If you have gloves thick enough, go for it. My multi meter has a laser thermometer in it good to up to 1000°, and there are other stand alone thermometers like that fairly cheap. Another highly technical technique is to watch what happens when you dribble a drop of water on it. Mom used to do that with her skillets to see "about how hot it is". It's best done on a flat surface, though which could be tough to find one that works. And then there is the old fashioned wax that melts at certain high temps. Solder might be a good tester….

Close is good enough. Don't go to straw color, stay with purple. Practice on junk.

DanK


----------



## ColonelTravis

Need to take "practice on junk" to heart a lot more - cut down on the curse words and the burn pile. I had a big burn pile in 2017. I think at this point in DFW, Texas, we're out of our brutal-cold nightmare, probably stuck with that pile through next winter.


----------



## Just_Iain

ColonelTravis,

The localiest store of me (there are three in Toronto) is just a wander in and look about. They have the planes on shelves (except the tiniest). Interested in a plane? Just ask to try it. Same for just about any tool (although many are in cabinets but they will take them out) I asked specifically about the new Combination plane when it came out and I was handed the store model. They aren't large stores really as a majority of the stock is in the warehouse. In a pinch, they will sell you the display model.

And do check out the clearance area is it has stuff added weekly. A $130 Grobet rasp for $30 was my latest haul but last summer they had three BadAxe saws on clearance and got the 10" Dovetail and 14" Sash saws for around $410 Canadian (about $332 US).

You fill out a paper form to indicate what you want then take a number and they get the 'stuff' which you can examine before paying. My suggestion is check the Canadian side of the website and then do a dollar conversion online to see what stuff costs before going. And take cash as Visa/Mastercard are larcenous when it comes to foreign exchange rates.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> And take cash as Visa/Mastercard are larcenous when it comes to foreign exchange rates.
> 
> - Just_Iain


Thanks for this. I haven't been across the N. border in 25 years.


----------



## DLK

The exchange rate should be the current bank rate, but sometimes they charge an additional international transaction fee.


----------



## TheFridge

Nice boba. Haven't seen you work in awhile and figured you were slacking 

CT, I've hear of folks using hairspray as well.


----------



## TheFridge

Finally finished and have 2 more coming down the pipeline for some friends. One of which has some cocobolo. Can't wait.


----------



## BillWhite

Very well done sir.
Bill


----------



## Handtooler

Super build!


----------



## jmartel

Looks great, Fridge. Maybe I can finish mine some day.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks girls. #JSlacking #wrongpriorites #dontneedno.remodel


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Looking good man. What's wrong with remodling? lol

I feel like a cocobolo hoarder these days. Didn't want to use any for Xmas gifts. Not sure how much longer we'll be able to buy it.


----------



## TheFridge

I've managed to get a couple offcuts from him but I really want a chunk from his 150+ lb slab.


----------



## jmartel

> What s wrong with remodling? lol
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Takes my time away from more important things like finishing my dovetail saw.

Don't have any Cocobolo. I've at least managed to pause my wood hoarding for the last year and a half. Once I get a shop built I'll start up again.


----------



## AgentTwitch

Great looking dovetail saw, Fridge. How did you etch the plate and spine?

Edit: Disregard, I just read your project post!


----------



## rad457

Some goodies followed me home! tried to put an order in to Lee Valley for the free shipping put of course the stuff 
i wanted not available online but in stock at my store so a few wish list items managed to sneak home.


----------



## TheFridge

Andre, I like that gauge. I got the micro adjust rod for Christmas. It's as advertised.


----------



## rad457

> Andre, I like that gauge. I got the micro adjust rod for Christmas. It's as advertised.
> 
> - TheFridge


Yeah I have the Micro-Adjust Gauge and the pocket gauge but find that I'm doing a lot more Mortise and figured this will work a lot better? Still fighting the urge to get a power mortiser and even perhaps upgrading the Mortise chisels, using some Narex ones now and hard to find a fault for the price.


----------



## JADobson

Risking veering off topic, those Narex mortise chisels do work well. I bought the 1/2" chisel for the farm house table I did last year. Double tenons in each leg 3" deep. No problems at all.


----------



## rad457

Saw this handle conversion a few times here and thought I would give a try, 
copied my Gramercy handle but changed the angle of handle to blade, works pretty nice.
Gramercy still cuts smoother and has better balance but when cost is considered, no comparison!


----------



## AgentTwitch

Great work, Andre! The saw looks great. The walnut looks like a match for your Gramercy dovetail saw. What kind of fasteners did you use? They look like Chicago bolts. Have you sharpened the Crown saw plate since the conversion? Might help a little bit.


----------



## rad457

Yep, Chicago bolts from Lee Valley, Only has a quick rub of Bee's wax paste so far.
Still got to work on the sharpening thing, the crown has a more aggressive pattern, 15 tpi compared to 19 for the Gramercy I believe? Really surprised by the different Handle angle, especially when using the Moxon vise.


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## TheFridge

Been at this stage for awhile while trying to make logos for the plate, spine and nuts and failing miserably doing it. It was recommended that I contact a graphic designer, which I did, so hopefully it'll be a complete saw sometime soon.


----------



## rad457

That's going to be way too pretty to actually use! Been thinking about getting a kit to build but how many saws does a guy need hanging on the wall? Okay dumb question, but went to compare the Veritas D.T. saw and couldn't cut a straight line?


----------



## TheFridge

The new handled saw vs the veritas?

Actually, that's the plan. Make it as purty as it can be with a glass front case to hang on the wall for a friend.

Well. I have enough stock and parts for at least another 3 if not 4. Process will go a lot faster once I get the graphic in and jigs for lasering in the proper spot.


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## rad457

Very lucky friend, took me a year to actually cut something with my Gramercy, and now I see the price of has doubled since I got it?
Stoned the blade on the crown and it helped a lot.


----------



## rad457

Some trinkets I built while waiting for some Oak to behave!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I just sat back and smiled when I read a wonderful review of my friend Brian Noel's dovetail saw in Fine Woodworking Magazine. Bearkat tools are made by one man, in a small shop, with an incredibly big heart. Such a blessing to watch your friends achieve their dreams.


----------



## TheFridge

Hear hear for that Red.

Speaking of modern American handtools. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get into small batch tool making pretty soon. Figured if I'm gonna buy a mini mill now and a lathe later then I might as well put a plan together to have it pay for itself eventually.


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## ColonelTravis

Haven't popped in here in about a month - that's awesome for Mr. BearKat.

Got back from Canada, went to Lee Valley for the first time in my life, Niagara Falls store. I asked them if they were ever gonna open up a store in the U.S. They said NAFTA and/or other rules/regs make that impossible right now. I said - that stinks. I knew they sold a lot more than woodworking stuff, I never properly visualized how much more until I saw it all. The Veritas corner was about 15% of the store? They did have a woodworking classroom. The rest was house/garden things. If they ever opened a store in the U.S. I'd go broke. I don't know how Canada people survive financially.

Interesting how you buy stuff there, as our Canadian LJer James and/or someone else I can't remember, sorry, once told me, you get a little clipboard with a piece of paper on it and write down the item # of the thing you want to buy. It's kind of like IKEA. Then they go get it for you in the back. You can try out every tool they have. I didn't see the big combo plane out, but they had everything else.

At the end of our trip, on the way back home from Quebec City, I was planning to stop by Lie-Nielsen in Maine. With a rental car, a Modern North American Hand Tool two-fer was impossible to pass up. Unfortunately L-N is closed on Sundays, the only day I could have done it. I don't know when we'll get back to Maine. Grrr….

I seriously love old tools. But we are in a golden age of new hand tools right now and lucky to have two major companies that make such great stuff (plus the smaller businesses). I mentioned this to one of the LV guys, who right before I said that was very friendly, and he dropped his head and just shook it like I said the most tactless thing possible. His co-worker looked at him and said, "What?" And the guy said, his face still close to the counter, "He just mentioned our competition." He reluctantly admitted L-N makes quality stuff, but it was a punch to the gut. About two seconds later he got over it and was just as affable as before. Canada people are too nice to be mad for too long, I think the stereotypes are true. I kid our Canadian cousins. Met so many genuinely wonderful people on our trip. Anyway, at least from this visit, I like that there is real competition between them. Makes it better for us.

Drooling section









Tell them to get it for you here









Name a store other than LV that has molding planes in the front door lobby? I'll give you a hint - THERE AIN'T ONE! Well, I'm sure there are others, I just haven't seen it.









I don't know if it's psychological, or if it's 100% scientifically true, but the PM-V11 chisels are about as close to perfection as you can get. I now have two and they are an absolute joy to use. I love the weight, the balance, the sharpness that seems to never go away, the feel when you're cutting, everything.

Handcut dovetail tails, ladies and gentlemen. HAND CUT! Using the glorious Veritas PM-V11. There's some fuzzy stuff there I didn't remove before the photo. That bothers me now even though in real life it's gone. But I swear, I have turned into Frank Klausz with these things. Not really. But I pretend I have.


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## theoldfart

Uh, and you didn't stop in to LibertyTool?


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## rad457

Yup! I have a fun time there, sort of like a Candy store, hate going in for their seminars, never walk out empty handed!
You can set up an account, place your order on line and they let you know when it is ready for pick up, I will never show the wife the shopping history that been growing over the years!
When I first got into more hand tools my first introduction to quality tools was at a Lie Nielson tool show in Vancouver B.C. and so have been lucky enough to use and own both, My Brass 102 being my favorite still!
Made the mistake on a kitchen remodel and showed the wife the hardware section, apparently she has good taste,
why have brass finish when you can have real Brass?
The PM-11 is really amazing! Switched out all the irons in my old Stanley's and any new plane that follows me home is of course PM-11. I have held of on any chisels so far only because I just have too many, and love my Japanese Dove Tails! (Lee Valley of course) But looking at them D.T.s I might just have to change my mind?


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## TheFridge

Liberty tool won't let me in after the incident.

They make me look through the windows and point at what u want. then they hose that side of the building off after my purchase.

Edit: well. That's probably what it would be like if I ever had a chance to go.


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## DLK

My one visit to Lee Valley was to the store in Winnipeg. I was hoping that there would be some advantage to going to the store. But it turns out after taking into account the exchange rate. its is just better to have it shipped to you on their free shipping days. Still nice to drool over all the tools. Somehow their planes just not as beautiful as the vintage planes I own. I may someday buy their shoulder planes or a low-angle jack. But I can by with my rust restorations.


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## ColonelTravis

> Uh, and you didn't stop in to LibertyTool?
> 
> - theoldfart


A New England vacation with a heavy Maine tool/lobster/chowder emphasis is on the Official Future Vacations List. Probably won't do it in April. It was cold. Not frozen cold, but cold enough. Several people in Quebec, pointing to piles of 20-foot high (dead serious) plowed snow, said, "this is unusual for us."

Unusual this time of year at my house is 70 degrees.

But we got there at the end of the maple syrup harvest. I've never had Quebec maple syrup until now. Holy moly, there aren't enough words in the English and French languages to describe how good that stuff is.


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## theoldfart

You haven't had Western Mass maple syrup then. Many of my neighbors have sugar houses. Nothing better than waffles and fresh maple syrup.


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## mramseyISU

ColonelTravis if I ever set foot in the place my credit card would probably have been maxed out before I left.


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## JADobson

> I don't know how Canada people survive financially.
> - ColonelTravis


Its a struggle. The store in Saskatoon is just a few minutes from my house.


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## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff CT. I've only been to the Canada once, and there wasn't an LV store near me. Boo for trade laws etc.

Kinda funny the guy got squeamish over the mention of LN. I know LN doesn't care. There's enough room for both in the market. I think either would struggle to keep up with demand on their own.


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## ColonelTravis

Ordered a 3/8" plow plane blade from LV months after I should have realized I didn't have a 3/8 blade. I'd wondered if the new Reno warehouse would come into play, which would be beneficial to where I live, but it did not with this.

Last Location:
Departed - East Syracuse, NY, United States, Thursday, 05/17/2018



Oh well. When I visited a LV store last month the guy there said it was opened it for their Festool products. I thought that was weird it was only for them and I wanted to ask him if that was, in fact, all it was used for, but then the person ringing me up asked me something and I never got back to asking about it.

Anyone with more info. about the Reno place?


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## woodcox

I tracked a saw from Reno in January, delivered in Salt Lake two days later. Last month I received hardware from NY.


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## r33tc0w

Not sure if anyone else follows this guy, but I've been addicted to his YouTube channel for over a year now. He has a wrench that he has resurrected from some 1800s patent and the holdinng power on it looks amazing.:

www.handtoolrescue.com


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## ColonelTravis

I know people on the site have built joinery benches, I don't remember who in this thread has, sorry. Got some lumber to build one myself because I've struggled with dovetails on large pieces with even my moxon and leg vise, plus I think it will come in handy for other things.

I don't know about bench height. What's a good rule of thumb for how tall this thing should be, and I mean relative to your size? Should the top be at where your elbow is, for example?


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## rad457

> I know people on the site have built joinery benches, I don t remember who in this thread has, sorry. Got some lumber to build one myself because I ve struggled with dovetails on large pieces with even my moxon and leg vise, plus I think it will come in handy for other things.
> 
> I don t know about bench height. What s a good rule of thumb for how tall this thing should be, and I mean relative to your size? Should the top be at where your elbow is, for example?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


I made a Moxon vise that really don't use that often, did make a Dovetail cutting jig/vise that I always use!


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## JADobson

> Not sure if anyone else follows this guy, but I ve been addicted to his YouTube channel for over a year now. He has a wrench that he has resurrected from some 1800s patent and the holdinng power on it looks amazing.:
> 
> www.handtoolrescue.com
> 
> - r33tc0w


+1000


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## G5Flyr

> I don t know about bench height. What s a good rule of thumb for how tall this thing should be, and I mean relative to your size? Should the top be at where your elbow is, for example?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


The short answer is YouTube… search for "Jim Tolpin sizing workbenches."

Tolpin explains how our body's appendages are sized in relationship to our *open* handspan (tip of thumb to tip of pinky). According to Tolpin our workbench heights should be sized according to the primary function that will be undertaken at that particular bench e.g. planing, precision sawing, etc. Tolpin goes on to explain how our work bench heights are sized in multiples of our hand spans. I think he says a planing bench is four hand spans high. Tolpin has three benches in his shop. Each bench's height is optimized for ergonomic efficiency/reduced fatigue.

Here's my personal experience/situation: I only have one bench in my little workshop. I built it before I watched Tolpin's YouTube video. By shear accident it is 4-1/2 hands high. I didn't realize it was 4-1/2 hands high. I didn't even make the legs. They were pre-made by a company named 2×4 Basics. I hope that doesn't get me kicked out of Lumberjocks. Anyway, those pre-made (composite) legs were a comfortable height for my 6'-1" height. It works great and I don't get fatigued while planing. When I put my (beautifully) restored Goodell-Pratt miter box on it the handle of the saw sits at a height where I don't have to bend. I can saw at it all day without making my back cranky and belligerent. Dove tailing and precise chiseling are another story but I don't have room for another bench. I'm going to build a Moxon vise that will place the work up higher… some day.

I hope that helps.


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## ColonelTravis

G5Flyr, thanks. I know the video you're talking about and love his teachings. Every joinery bench I've seen appears to be higher than his highest bench, a sawing bench (which he may even use as a joinery bench, I don't know. What it's called doesn't matter.)

But since asking this question I realized - hey dummy, why don't you just put your moxon on your workbench and then figure out if you want it higher or lower? Anyway, problem solved. I was too stupid to think there could be a shortcut to something that didn't need a shortcut.

By the way, if you can't fit another bench in your place, I highly recommend a moxon for dovetails.


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## TedT2

Just picked this up at an auction. I have tried to clean it up a bit but it is stubborn…


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## BigRedKnothead

Dang. Somebody let that bugger rust….


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## rad457

> G5Flyr, thanks. I know the video you re talking about and love his teachings. Every joinery bench I ve seen appears to be higher than his highest bench, a sawing bench (which he may even use as a joinery bench, I don t know. What it s called doesn t matter.)
> 
> But since asking this question I realized - hey dummy, why don t you just put your moxon on your workbench and then figure out if you want it higher or lower? Anyway, problem solved. I was too stupid to think there could be a shortcut to something that didn t need a shortcut.
> 
> By the way, if you can t fit another bench in your place, I highly recommend a moxon for dovetails.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


I made my Moxon taller for that purpose, then started to fool around with some hand made handles on some 
Crown Gents blades, by changing the handle's drop angle really changed the height position when cutting D.T.s.
Make sure the height works for the saw's being used! (Then only use that 1 Saw forever


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## ColonelTravis

Lee Valley can't get their PM-V11 supply chain fixed. I've never ordered any blade or chisel made from that stuff that wasn't pushed back months. Latest was a 1" chisel I ordered in July. They said, well, we'll have them in mid-August. Then in mid-August they said end of August. Now they're saying end of Sept.

I can understand this happening once or twice. But it's happened to me four times, going back to last summer. One time last year I said screw it, I need a rabbet plane, just ship it with O1. This was three months after I ordered it and they still didn't have the blades.

Not sure what's going on.


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## bobasaurus

My coworker just ordered the LV LA Jack and they were so delayed on PM-V11 that he went with A2.


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## JADobson

I got a replacement pmv-11 blade for a #7. They didn't have it at my local store but brought it in for me with their regular shipment. No troubles there. I know Rob Lee goes on Sawmill Creek every now and then to give updates. I only knew about the problems they were having with handles. The torrefied maple looks pretty good though. Got it on my router plane and I really like it.


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## ColonelTravis

I love their chisels so much. For me it's not just the steel but the balance and feel. Tried many brands and these are easily my favorite. I do love that steel, though, so I will hold out.

I've seen Mr. Lee over at SMC. Always liked that he was responsive, wish he would hang out here also.


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## Sunstealer73

I just bought the 1/4 and 1/2 PM-V11 chisels. They are so nice: balanced, get really sharp, and hold the edge for a really long time. When I asked about the delays, I was told that it was the handles, not the steel.

I also just got the Cosman dovetail saw. I've been using Japanese saws for joinery, but wanted to get better with the western style. This thing cuts really fast, about 3 strokes to the baseline in 5/8 stock.


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## ColonelTravis

OK, sounds like a handle problem. I didn't ask this time.


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## CL810

#Worththewait


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## JayT

This thread has been kind of dormant, but I had to share.

During shaping on my current plane build, I got a very pleasant surprise . . . . racing stripes!


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## rad457

Made a box to store some under used planes!


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## DLK

Nice box but how can you say "under used planes. LOL. 
I like the detail on the lid.


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## rad457

> Nice box but how can you say "under used planes. LOL.
> I like the detail on the lid.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Embarrassed to say found the large router plane in its box in a cupboard, had forgotten I had bought it!
The lid detail was another forgotten tool sitting in the cabinet that I had never even tried, short learning curve called a scratch stock plane for good reason, especially on end grain!


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## ColonelTravis

I got the new Veritas shooting board fence. Have not used it yet, got some anti-wood-time stuff going on. I'll admit it's an extravagance but my old shooting board was not working for 45s, and the selling point - I can really use some of the odd angles you can set on the fence.


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## DLK

> Nice box but how can you say "under used planes. LOL.
> I like the detail on the lid.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> Embarrassed to say found the large router plane in its box in a cupboard, had forgotten I had bought it!
> The lid detail was another forgotten tool sitting in the cabinet that I had never even tried, short learning curve called a scratch stock plane for good reason, especially on end grain!
> 
> - Andre


No need to be embarrassed, but I use a router plane a lot. I have 3.

I acquired a scratch stock plane, actually a Stanley No. 66 Hand Beader, in anticipation of using it to fix or make molding planes. But now you have given me another idea.


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## rad457

Guess I have 3 total including my 1st a Stanley #71. (Luck win on EBay years ago)
Looked up the # 66 and it looks a little bigger, which would be nice as I found the Veritas a tad small.
Need to start building more small boxes if only life would let me!


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## JADobson

> I got the new Veritas shooting board fence. Have not used it yet, got some anti-wood-time stuff going on. I ll admit it s an extravagance but my old shooting board was not working for 45s, and the selling point - I can really use some of the odd angles you can set on the fence.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Let us know what you think of it. I've been eyeing it since it came out.


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## ColonelTravis

Yes, our friend Kevin The Old Fart pointed out to me a thread on another site I hadn't seen that was talking about possible problems.

https://forums.woodnet.net/showthread.php?tid=7342731

The guy there who first mentioned the issues had ordered the complete shooting board/fence/track combo. I just got the fence and am doing everything else myself, so I don't know if I'll run into his problems. I'm actually getting ready to go in the garage now and put it together.

This is the first product I've ordered from LV or L-N that is brand new on their end and that there have been zero reviews in the standard media about its performance, and nothing but one thread that I know of on any wood site, period, and I ordered the dang thing anyway. I don't know if that makes sense. Short version: I bought this kinda sight unseen.


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## theoldfart

CT, I finally broke down and opened THE BOX! I've had it for a while and only used it once. My shoot board just wasn't up to snuff.









Funny thing is I also had the 24" LV track for the past year, just set it up today.









The fence is obviously temporary, when I can afford it I'll probably get the LV fence as well.


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## planecurious

Here is another Canadian chisel manufacturer
ICBtools
and carving knives
Beebe


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## fly2low

I have a couple of the IBC chisels. Nice tools


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## TheFridge

I won't lie. The adjustable shooting board fence looks awesome.


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## terryR

^ageed.


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## rad457

Those IBC Chisels look like they would work well with Paul Sellers Mortise technique.
The Veritas shooting board is different, going to take another look at it this afternoon.
I use my shooting board so seldom not sure I really need to upgrade?
The curse of making only perfect cuts (and failing eye sight)


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## Mosquito

My skew chisels are IBC, because I wanted to try them out. They weren't quite as flat as I hoped on the back, but manageable. The removable handle is pretty nice for sharpening.

I bought one of the Veritas shooting boards. Called the order in because it was $50 cheaper than what the website showed. I might post some thoughts on it later, but overall it's not bad. I'm still deciding if it's worth it or not though. It's essentially what I had already built, an adjustable track for the shooting plane, coated with UHMW plastic tape to help it glide. What I get is the ability to adjust to any angle I want, which is why I got it. What I'm not sure of, is whether the complete shooting board is worth it, just the track plus fence, or just fence.

My thinking was the adjustable angles would be useful to make segments for making segmented bowl blanks, or something


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## rad457

So much for restraint! Went in to LV to pick the new copy of Mortise and Tenon and came home with a
Veritas shooting board, bigger than I expected and appears very well made.
Quick look at the installation instructions and can see where lack of attention to detail could cause grief?
By the way $129.00 CAN so guess that's about $100 US.


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## therealSteveN

> Just bought that Knew Concepts saw after a long time thinking - this has got to be not worth the money.
> My friends - it is worth the money.
> 
> I ve read reviews from people who say it only does the same thing a $10 coping saw does.
> My friends - it does, but it does it better. I ve gone through many coping saws and hated every single one of them. I almost didn t get the KC saw because of this experience, but I had a few amazon gift certificates sitting around and said - what the heck. Very happy with the purchase.
> 
> I m with you Red and give a standing ovation for the quality toolmakers today. I love the old stuff, and have more of it, but the new stuff can be just as good or better.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Lee has created a great coping/fret saw with blade holding like none other, and a balanced frame that is so easy to use. The money part for a saw that good, isn't a silly buy, it's common sense.


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## therealSteveN

I would also like to take this opportunity to mention that my experience with Ron Bontz of Bontzsawworks was excellent I had already purchased an X Large handled DT saw from another highly regarded vendor displayed on this list, and it was anything but X L in my estimation. Of course I immediately contacted them to let them know their handle couldn't be right, and they pretty much told me where to get off. Be a long time before they see more $$$$$ from me.

Ron took a long time making sure my saws handle was perfect for me, which led to another purchase of an additional saw from his inventory, also with a very large handle. I love both of my Bontz saws, and would buy from him again in a heartbeat.

Others on my Christmas card list are Rob Lee of Lee Valley, such nice tools. Dave Jeske of Blue Spruce. I just wish I was richer, I'd have at least one of everything. Mateo Panzica of Lazarus Handplane, Jamel, and Father John of BenchCrafted. Certainly our vises are tools too. Bob Z at Czech Edge I've been abusing one of his marking gauges for a number of years now, and it won't quit. He does sharp edge very well, some are pretty pointy as well, good guy, good tools.

Bob also is responsible for one of the funniest internet posts I have ever read. I cannot for the life of me remember exactly how it went, but it was about a fart, that could go trick or treating. Maybe someone here knows how it went.

So many other makers that I have met, but sadly not had enough $$$$$ to bring home other tools. I salute them all.


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## Mosquito

Andre, was that just the fence part I assume?


----------



## rad457

> Andre, was that just the fence part I assume?
> 
> - Mosquito


You assume correctly MOs. I have no intentions to ever buy a shooting plane, as normally just use my L.A. 
Block. Anything that may require more mass will be handled by a Veritas L.A. #4 or the old faithful Stanley #5.

As far as the Knew Concepts saws I have the Fret saw and yes they are amazing compared to my standard style coping saw, Tried for a while to saw out waste in D.T.s but returned to chopping it out after getting some Japanese D.T. chisels.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Love the shooting board renaissance!
My in-laws are in town for a week. (Insert jokes here.) Haven't had a chance to use my new fence yet.


----------



## theoldfart

I've finished tweaking the shoot(chute) board.









I put in a micro adjust on the fence to make it easy to keep it square.

The stock for the Blackburn kerf plane is milled and squared. 









Next up cut in the blade and drill the fence holes.


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## rad457

Had to tweak mine just a bit! Jatoba runner and just a couple of coats of some old Shellac I found.


----------



## theoldfart

Looks good. I'm hoping you and the Colonel will bring back your impressions after using it for a while.


----------



## TheFridge

Ditto.

Couple marking gauges in the works.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Fridge those gauges look awesome. I've found out that I could use some sort of panel gauge, maybe I'll be inspired by you.

Will have my shooting board working in a day or two, many things going on that have taken me away from that. Mine does not have fancy pants Jatoba! I have a little bit of fancy pants cherry.

Interestingly, a package was delivered today containing a new PM-V11 1-inch chisel from Lee Valley that I ordered in July. They said it wouldn't ship until November but surprise! Arrived today.

I've heard about their handle issues. This handle is really glossy. My other PM-V11 handles are not glossy. Don't know if this is how they are making them now but man I hate the gloss. When I took it out of the package I said - ugh, gonna have to get rid of that. I have four now, don't see myself ordering any others so it doesn't matter, but I prefer the older handles. The sizes I don't have I never use. Actually, I would probably buy a 5/8" if they made one. In fact, I think I've just moved that to a confirmed buy.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks bud. I made progress tonight and have one close. I am liking the look.

I find I use a 3/8 a good bit.

I need some fancy pants cherry in my life for saw handles


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## ColonelTravis

Brief review on the Veritas shooting board fence.
Bottom line - awesome.

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/product/11049


----------

