# Best way to finish painted cabinets



## jonlan (Dec 21, 2015)

Hi All - I have a bit of a conundrum on my hands and looking for some input. My wife would like me to tackle a built in desk in the office and she wants the finish to be painted a specific color. I've done cabinets before that were painted and have had mixed success. The first set I sprayed with a HVLP gun using Shermin Williams pro classic oil based paint. At the time I was newer to finishing and I was impressed with how smooth the final finish was. I was not however impressed with the smell of the oil based paint. Even though I did it in the basement - the whole house smelled awful for weeks. Disclaimer - I live in Minnesota and the only places I can paint are in the garage and the basement. The garage isnt heated and its currently -10 out so I cant paint out there either.

The next set of cabinets I did I tried to spray latex based paint. My HVLP gun has a 1.8mm tip and the finish came out orange peel and the gun was often spitting paint. After much research I found that latex isnt a great candidate for HVLP guns. So I looked at airless guns but then found folks who had success shooting latex out of a HVLP with a 2.5mm jet/tip. So I tried that and I got good results after thinning with some floetrol. I fully realize that its not designed for that, but for the limited amount of painting I need to do Im happy with how this is coming out. Now comes the question of finishing….

So to level set - Im trying to use paint and finishes that are water based to keep the odor down. It sounds like the real type of paint I should be using is lacquer but its hard to come by and probably smells worse than the oil based paint. So those are my constraints.

I've done several samples so far with latex in the HVLP finished with water based poly. After 3 or 4 coats (sanding 320 grit in between each) I've been able to rub the finish out with steel wool and polishing wax to a perfect satin. I was amazed! (I've never rubbed a finish before). So having gotten this far, I was thinking this was how I would finish the built ins. Then I started thinking about how would I rub out the poly on the edge of drawer fronts against the grain, and other awkward places. So now Im worried this model wont work for the builtins at all. It's also quite a bit of work considering this is going to be a whole wall of builtins with the desk.

So…. Im back to rethinking my strategy. I went to shermin williams today and talked to them. They suggested I spray a water based Urethane trim enamel they have called Emerald. He says it could be shot out of a HVLP and would give me a similar result to the oil based pro classic but without the odor and it can be colored to any color I want. The added plus of this is that its my top coat. I dont need to worry about getting a smooth finish with hand applied poly urethane. The downside is the stuff is $100 a gallon.

So Im looking for input. I realize not wanting a paint that smells is severely limiting but Im trying to stay within that constraint. Im wondering if I sprayed the water based Urethane on I wouldnt need to sand it and rub it out as much meaning that hard to reach corners wouldnt be that big of a deal to get the right finish on.

Any ideas? Am I being crazy for not just using an oil based and calling it a day? That one set of cabinets I did with the proclassic looks great and I didnt need to top coat it with anything else.

Thanks


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## cabmaker (Sep 16, 2010)

If you like the results of the first cab job,,,,,,,just do the same thing

smell a problem.?......dont know what to tell you…..not a perfect world


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## jonlan (Dec 21, 2015)

Thanks - Just looking for alternatives. Trying my best to keep the odor down in the house but I see your point.


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

the odor is called
'that new cabinet smell." 
its like "that new car smell", cept for cabinets. 
is there a 100% odorless paint?


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## jonlan (Dec 21, 2015)

I guess I was hoping for input on alternatives to what I know smells very bad which is Lacquer and Oil based paints (latex and water based products dont do that). I know folks use Latex to paint cabinets (right or wrong) so was wondering if there were alternatives or better ways to finish them.

I'll keep experimenting. Thanks


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Take a look at Target coatings. They have a wb laquer that can be tinted. Had good luck with it but wasnt used on hi use item like cabinets. I think their other more wear resistant coatings might be tintable. You definitely dont want to use latex. Look for wb acrylic enamels.


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## ReclamationArtisan (Feb 2, 2013)

I have shot SW Pro Classic (which is a 100% acrylic) through my HVLP gun with a 2.0 and 2.5 tip. What you do is use 60% paint, 30% windshield washer solvent (the blue stuff) and the Flotrol type product that Sherwin Williams stores sell ( I forget the name). I have done numerous pieces of furniture and a number of different kitchen cabinets and had factory quality results. There are some videos on YouTube showing the use of windshield washer solvent as a thinner you should check out. The nice part is you can handle the finish product inside an hour. Good luck.


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## jonlan (Dec 21, 2015)

@Joel J - I've been looking at those paints. There appears to be an acrylic…

https://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/proclassic-waterborne-interior-acrylic-enamel

And then an acrylic-alkyd….

https://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/proclassic-interior-waterbased-acrylicalkyd

Which one did you use? I assume the top one (the acrylic). Trying to sort out the difference between them…


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## ReclamationArtisan (Feb 2, 2013)

It's the first one that I have used. I typically shoot the satin. If you want to do some additional experimenting, I have shot some cheap water based latex from HD (like $ 7.00 qt.), thin with the windshield washer solvent and Flotrol type product and then shot the HD inexpensive brand of water base poly for floors (like $ 40.00 gal in the plastic jugs), once again satin, over the top. You have to shoot clear poly over latex or it will remain "sticky". The clear poly, which you can coat over the top right away eliminates the paint from remaining "sticky/tacky". I have finished a whole set of kitchen cabinets with SW oil based sandable primer, numerous coats of latex and clear poly all in one day with my hvlp gun. The finish seems real durable.

Lastly, on another note, the SW Pro Classic is very durable. I have it on my kitchen cabinets and after 4 years, they look as good as the day I finished them.


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## cabmaker (Sep 16, 2010)

> I guess I was hoping for input on alternatives to what I know smells very bad which is Lacquer and Oil based paints (latex and water based products dont do that). I know folks use Latex to paint cabinets (right or wrong) so was wondering if there were alternatives or better ways to finish them.
> 
> I ll keep experimenting. Thanks
> 
> - jonlan


I predominantly use latex unless stained…....that includes latex underbody as well


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## AUswimKC (Jan 24, 2013)

Benjamin Moore Advance. All day. Sprays beautifully and lays flat and glass even for this newbie. First time and every time after that. Thin 5-10% with distilled water.

I would do my absolute best to paint before install. I wouldn't want anything, even water based, sprayed in the house


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

I've used SW ProClassic oil based and never thought the odor was that bad. The odor should be temporary but you should make sure your furnace air handler is sealed well. This, combined with insufficient exhaust ventilation, could be why the odors are getting in your house.

Check into SW Aqua Kem. You may also want to look into an HVLP sprayer with a bigger aperture for latex.

If Charles Neil chimes in, just do what he says ;-


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## skcj213 (May 22, 2014)

Last year we remodeled our kitchen an I shot the cabinet doors with SW Pro Classic Alkyd Acrylic using the $100 HVLP turbine from Harbor Freight. I was amazed at how well they turned out, especially for being my first time spraying anything. I did a lot of research before painting since I had a very discerning customer(my wife) that had to be pleased with the results. The alkyd has similar properties as oil based, such as better leveling, without the smell and nasty cleanup. I thinned using just water to around 25 seconds using the viscosity cup that came with the sprayer.


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## DavidOveracre (Sep 26, 2015)

I will say that SW is trying to sell you their top dollar paint and 100$ is way more than they should be charging (I got a gallon for considerably less, which may have been because their 40% sale, which seems to be going on all the time, and a contractors discount). But Emerald is good paint, especially for your application. It's a waterborne urethane modified alkyd enamel and lays nice and flat and gets hard and doesn't smell really at all. I thinned it between 5-10% with water and shot it with a dinky two stage HVLP with a 2.5mm tip set. It lays nice and flat if thinned enough. If your using a HF hvlp then I assume you can only adjust flow and pattern, so if you can't adjust it to get it to stop throwing spatter, thin it a bit more and it'll spray just fine. In my experience with it, Floetrol didn't do anything but give me tiny bubbles in the heavy areas and quite a few in general, had to sand them flat and recoat, and I tried using it twice. So water is all you need. While it will cover just fine on bare wood in two coats, I'd suggest a primer beforehand, it'll raise some grain and give you a good base to sand down smooth so your enamel will look nice and smooth. I've used a couple different primers under it, doesn't really matter.


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## Thalweg (Jan 27, 2009)

I wish I could have seen this thread two weeks ago. I just finished painting some cabinets with the SW Pro Classic water based acrylic alkyd. SW assured me that I could spray it through my hvlp. The kid who was helping me (obviously young with limited experience) told me I could only thin it 10% and only with water. I mixed up a pint, and it took nearly an hour to shoot that one pint. It was just too thick. So I ended up brushing it on. The results aren't bad. This stuff flows out very well, but it's not the finish I was hoping for. I wen't into SW with the intention of buying the oil based version, and they gave me the look that said "are you stupid?", and proceeded to convince me that the water based would be much better.

From what I'm reading here, I could have thinned considerably more. I've never heard of using windshield washer fluid in paint before. I'll have to look into that.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Hello jonlan

Before addressing anything else your post said you shot some water base rubbed it out and used some steel wool and wax on it. using steel wool on water-based products is a definite NO NO if you end up recoating with water base you will have lots of little rust specs all over the place because steel wool leaves tiny little particle all over your surface even after wiping down your surface many times.
My wife and I are highly susceptible to fumes of almost any kind: smoke, perfume, most detergents, air fresheners. paint etc. We painted out living room with Home depot's low VOC paint If I remember right is was this one
https://www.homedepot.com/p/BEHR-Premium-Plus-1-gal-PPU9-12-Prairie-House-Zero-VOC-Semi-Gloss-Enamel-Interior-Paint-305001/300400242
We were delighted that it hardly had any smell at all, for people who have problems with odors it's a heaven sent.
As for shooting your paint the newer electric spray guns to my surprise work very well with house paint. I've been spraying for 45 years so my opinion is not that of a new b to spraying. This is the one I recommend Charles Neil liked it. 
https://www.amazon.com/HomeRight-C800971-Sprayer-Painting-Projects/dp/B071X9FZ7R/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1515859711&sr=8-18&keywords=electric+spray+paint+gun


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## jonlan (Dec 21, 2015)

Thanks for all the comments and feedback! I went this morning and bought a quart of the SW Emerald waterborne urethane. I took a sample piece of plywood, primed with with Zinsser BIN primer and sanded it down with 220 after it dried. Hit it with a tack cloth, and then sprayed the paint un-thinned through my 1.8mm HVLP gun. The paint was coming out without spitting (which I took to mean meant it didnt need to be thinned) but there just wasnt a lot of paint coming out. I started wondering if there was something wrong with the gun. The rate was consistent and didnt sem to change despite how much I backed out the feed screw for the needle. All the same, I painted the panel despite it taking quite awhile. The results from the first coat seem ok, but it's definitely not perfectly smooth. Up close you can see small bumps. Im wondering if these will clear up with the second coat or if Im just not putting it on thick enough. The other issue might be that the paint seems to be drying quite quickly. So maybe its coming out of the gun too thin? This picture actually makes it look worse than I think it is but the lighting isnt great either…










I think I'll let it sit until dry, hit it with some 320, and then try the second coat. I think I'll also switch to me 2.5mm HVLP gun. Upon closer inspection of the 1.8mm gun during cleaning it looks like it wasnt cleaned out that well last time it was used (loaning tools is a problem I seem to have) so I wonder if the gun is just clogged up somewhere and likely garbage at this point (sigh). Oh well. Hoping that the second coat makes things smoother. Im also going to paint a second sample with the 2.5mm gun to see if the first coat with that looks better.


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## ReclamationArtisan (Feb 2, 2013)

Try using the M-1 Paint Additive and Extender. I will extend dry time and improves flow and leveling. SW sells it and I use it with all my waterborne paint jobs.


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## AUswimKC (Jan 24, 2013)

There are too many factors to provide feedback with know all of the parameters. Air pressure, gun settings, tip diameter, brand, paint, etc. Keep testing. You'll find the optimum settings


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## Kazooman (Jan 20, 2013)

> I have shot SW Pro Classic (which is a 100% acrylic) through my HVLP gun with a 2.0 and 2.5 tip. What you do is use 60% paint, 30% windshield washer solvent (the blue stuff) and the Flotrol type product that Sherwin Williams stores sell ( I forget the name). I have done numerous pieces of furniture and a number of different kitchen cabinets and had factory quality results. There are some videos on YouTube showing the use of windshield washer solvent as a thinner you should check out. The nice part is you can handle the finish product inside an hour. Good luck.
> 
> - Joel J


Just a note of caution from the paranoid organic chemist in me. A lot of windshield washer solution contains methanol. You can get a brief whiff of it when you clean your windshield. That is in a well vented car. I would not care to spray methanol vapors in an enclosed shop. If I did so I would use a good quality respirator with organic vapor absorption cartridges and then leave the area until the air has changed over. Just me, your results may vary.


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## jonlan (Dec 21, 2015)

Well after much messing around - and more struggles getting the paint to spray - I finally got it spraying the way I want. I tried 3 or 4 different tests last night. Mostly centering around using Floetrol to thin the paint and help wth leveling. All of them turned out awful. Today - I did some more reading and decided to thin the paint with 10% straight water. I couldnt be happier with the results. The paint sprayed awesome out of my HVLP with the 1.8mm tip. Great flow and it laid down perfectly. Two coats on a test board and it looks like this…










The picture doesnt do the finish justice. No splatter that I can see at all and a perfectly smooth finish to the touch. I sanded with 320 in between coats but it didnt even need it. It just worked. All of my sample pieces that had any Floetrol at all of them still feel tacky today.

I am much appreciative of all of the input and immensely relieved that I got the paint to work the way I wanted it too. Now I can move onto my favorite part - actually building the cabinets!

Thanks much to all who commented!


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Yup newbie to spraying too. The very first thing I realized is I wasn't thinning the paint enough. I was using the HF HVLP gun w/ oil based paint and it already looked thin enough, but it wasn't.

In one of his finishing videos Charles Neil showed a very simple formula for determining viscosity: if the paint comes through the strainer about as fast as a medium pour rate, its thin enough. Very subjective but worked for me!


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

some of these you tubes may help a little 









teaching all the ins and outs of finishing is very difficult , 
there are so many factors and so much speculation and confusion. 
Everyone is looking for the magic bullet and it doesnt exist .
Spraying in my opinion is the fastest and easiest , but various finishes require different needle/nozzle sizes , air pressure , viscosity . 
I will however say once you have a understanding of the basics , you can figure it out .
The biggest key is learning how wet to apply a finish to flow out, how to adjust a gun to achieve that, what can you thin what cant you , and on and on . 
I does seem complicated , and can be .. its like cooking, every pot and pane has a purpose , but can be used in various circumstances .. but then you add spices and how long you cook what , it can get interesting 
I cant cook worth a flip BTW ,LOL


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## jonlan (Dec 21, 2015)

Thanks @CharlesNeil. I totally agree with you. I should have spent more time upfront trying to understand the basics before even trying. Having an understanding of what type of HVLP gun to use when (what size tip etc) as well as what thinners can be used would have saved me a lot of time. Moreover - starting with the basics is where I should have started. Water to thin a water borne finish.

Im looking at the 15+ sample boards I sprayed to get here (all of them not what I wanted but the last) and I dont regret doing any of it. I wasted a lot of time - but I learned a lot of what doesnt work as well.

Thanks to everyone that commented and helped me get here!


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## Newbie17 (Feb 20, 2017)

So glad I found this thread. Will be applying SW Emerald on a few projects this weekend. I was going to make all the mistakes I read on here.


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## xedos (Apr 25, 2020)

Couple of things should be noted:

Floetrol IS NOT a thinner. It's a paint additive that increases drying time so the paint has more time to level out. It makes it more "slippery" , not thinner.

Washer fluid is an old airbrusher's standby. Not recommend for architectural paints because of the alcohol in many. 
Distilled water is the recommended thinner for water based paints. Most paints will only take 10% thinning agent before altering the properties negatively. The PDS will guide you on what and how much to thin.

It's best to spray most coatings un thinned . You need to match the equipment to the coating. This means a large enough needle and high enough pressure to atomize the coating. Most "woodworking" hvlp rigs aren't gonna spray paint very well , of any type. They're designed to spray thin, clear , coatings. People do spray paint with Hvlp turbines , but the successful ones are using a 5-6 stage Turbine that produces @ 10psi and a gun with a large needle.

The reality is thinning is sometimes necessary , even with an ideal setup. Again, only up to 10% for most paints.

I haven't looked at Emerald , but I know some SW paints need up to 2 weeks to cure. Cure is different than dry. If your paint is "sticky" it's not cured. The PDS or label on the can will tell you the particulars. Most of these paints don't need a top or clear coat. Kinda defeats the purpose of using an expensive coating if you need to use another product to "protect" it.

Despite what the "guy" at the store tells you , you need a primer or sealer coat. Don't argue, debate , or think about it - just do it.

Kem Aqua+ is a very good candidate for Hvlp. It is water based, dries and cures very quickly, and doesn't smell. Problem is , it's a commercial product and most SW stores don't carry it.


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