# Why I didn't end up getting this one



## gfixler (Feb 21, 2009)

Yeah, the miter slot would be a deal breaker for me as well. I got rid of a Craftsman rollaway saw for not having any miter slots. It had a built-in sliding panel made of coated aluminum on flimsy aluminum rails with too much rock in them, and too many plastic parts all around. I couldn't make my own proper jigs without miter channels. I considered making a large crosscut sled that hugged the sidewalls, but one of them actually molded out flush with the top to one side into a pair of legs that also functioned as a cord wrap-up. When you folded the saw up, you could tilt it over onto its wheels, and that leg thing, but it also meant one side's edge couldn't have anything slide against it. It was definitely meant only for rolling to a job site and cutting 2×4s and other light framing work.

Now I have a RIDGID from Home Depot that I love. The fence is somehow amazing, and I've gotten nothing but dead accurate cuts ever since getting it all dialed in. That said, the most annoying bit is that there's a slight bow in the right miter slot. I didn't notice it until I got an Incra miter sled that has a miter rail that can be adjusted to swell to exactly slide against the walls. I got it dialed in with the expanding nylon spacers, and it would just wedge as it neared the back. Using a precision ground 2' straightedge from Woodpeckers, I found I could see a space between it and one side wall of the miter slot's middle section, and it would gently rock when pushed against the other.

The fix would probably be to run some kind of lapping stone against them, with a reference plate dialed in with a dial indicator, but man, that's just too crazy and finicky for me. The difference is something like 4-6 thousandths of an inch off straight. It's amazing how such a tiny bit can mean I can't use the nice expanding-fit feature of the Incra miter stuff. I can dial it back until it slides, but then it rocks about like a regular, included miter gauge.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Ridgid has a new R4511 hybrid out that is supposedly made by, or at least in conjuction with Steel City. I'm wondering how similar these two saws might be. From what I've been able to glean from the owner's manual on Steel City's website, the guts look almost identical to those in the R4511, and the fence is the same. Not sure why they've omitted the faces from the fences of both of these saws….seems an odd cost cutting measure, but that's likely it (easy enough to make I suppose). From a distance, it appears that both of these hybrids offer alot in the $600-$650 range…any other hybrids I know of in that price range have steel wings, open stands, cheap aluminum fences, etc., but having not seen one in person yet, looks can be deceiving. I suspect the lack of t-slots is to prevent breakage from people treating the miter gauge like a lever when retracted fully back.

Thanks for the insights.


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## pickles (Jan 20, 2009)

knotscott is correct. I have a 3 HP Granite Steel City Saw and the manual says not to use the washer on the miter gauge because it could damage the top, yet it has the t-slot. I guess the newer saws don't have the slot for that reason


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

One of the possible improvements to granite top saws that I've read, includes using a plastic washer for the t-slots, so that in the event that upward leverage gets placed on the washer, the washer is the weak link as opposed to the granite above the t-slot. I suspect that much of that type of damage is done in the stores by people "testing the limits"....the plastic washer seems like a reasonable solution to me.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

I'm eager to see the Ridgid first hand to be honest.

I'm not a big ridgid fan, but it seems like people just love their 3660 TS… so if thats the case, maybe their new R4511 would be a good one too. it does state on the ridgid site that it has t-slot miter slots. other than, and the smaller motor (1.5 compared to SC 1.75) it seems identical to the SteelCity, I can only assume they are made in the same factory using the same parts (for most). I still think it would have been nice if SC would leave the T-slots in, and let me choose whether to use them or not - like they do with all their other saws…


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## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

I had spoken to Steelcity and was told that they used a 'temporary photo' of a different saw since they still havent seen the new saw, and that the woodcraft published photo is the actual saw - very strange. I also found it a bit odd that I was able to go to a retail store and see a saw that the company knows nothing about it's details since the company haven't received it yet? (but the retail stores have…)

...and what does this tell you about the saw? Well, first off, it tells you that Steel City is not making it. Second, it tells you that they haven't even looked at the saw; they are selling, sight unseen, a product with their name on it - what kind of quality can I exepect from that? (c'mon! they didn't even have a unit for test that they could take pictures of?). And thirdly, given that the retail stores have it and the Steel City offices don't even have one to take pictures of, it tells you that they are far more interested in making money than any form of quality assurance.

Naw, there are lotsa reasons to not buy this saw and none of them have to do with miter slots!


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## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

That's interesting that the miter slot isn't a t-slot. I have their granite top Bandsaw and it does.


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## Timbo (Aug 21, 2008)

I ran across a deal on a new R4511 that I could not pass up (1/2 price) gloat gloat. Just finished setting it up and it has the T groove miter slot. I guess I need to find a plastic washer.


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

Just me I guess but if I was to go for a new saw I would try to find a 10' sliding Table 3 Phase with converer, 7.5 Horse Power Motor, Soft Start, 3 Speed 1 Horse Power Scoring Blade, Electric angle and height adjustment Outrigger table extends to 10' Digital height and angle display, Digital Fence 49.2 inches Start buttons on sliding table and machine, All scales marked in inches.

Did someone say LOTO?!


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## 93mwm (Jan 13, 2009)

sand hill, thats what dreams are made of


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## Emeralds (Aug 24, 2008)

Good review and good info. You'll be much happier down the road having discovered these things from afar.
I'm a notoriously budget minded guy whose dusty, cobwebbed laden wallet squeaks and creaks as I open it but ,if it were me looking for my "Last TS" I would be much less worried about the $$$ than making sure that everything I wanted or could imagine needing was there. In the short run it's a bit painful but you'll be so much happier down the road.

Cheers
Joe


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

*EEngineer* - I wanted to be 'nice' so I used the miter slots excuse 

*Gary* - actually, ALL of their products that use Granite top have T slots in the miter slot. this is the only one that is different - which I found very strange as I assumed that the top is coming from the same supplier/manufacturer, and is the same part ? I guess not…. which is what made me think they WERE cutting a corner with this one as opposed to "overcoming a known issue" - since if it was the later - why didnt they replace the tops on ALL of their granite top machines?

*sandhill* - I don't like blue

*Timbo* - I really like how everyone really liked their Ridgid machines ,as much as I'm not a Ridgid fan - right now this seem like the best solution.
Thanks *Emeralds* - I do agree that I'd rather be more frustrated now, then after I purchase the 'wrong' 500lbs weight (althought I must add, that budget is an issue at the moment)...


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## rsharp (May 6, 2008)

Great review. Just the kind that helps LJ's make wise decisions. Thanks!


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## araldite (Jan 29, 2009)

I've seen the t-slot chipped on the floor model at my local Woodcraft store as if someone pulled up on the miter gauge before it was completely free. This seems to be an ongoing criticism of the granite tops. Steel City says they use the best granite available in China, which sounds good but means nothing to me since I have no idea how good Chinese granite is compared to anyplace else. If they're using a cheaper granite, chipping may be an even bigger problem.


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## CedarFreakCarl (Apr 21, 2007)

Purp, there's a review of the 4511 in the last Popular Woodworkin mag. It has some good features such as a cabinet mounted trunion. The guy that reviewed it said the 1.5hp motor cut fine. While I don't remember all the particulars, at the end of the article he did say that if it were him would save a few more bucks and opt for an upgrade.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

Thanks Carl, I'll check out PPW for that article, I'm curious - as I've already contacted HomeDepot, and am looking to get the Ridgid R4511 in the next few days - so anything to hold me off from that - now would be the time.

araldite - I assume the granite has a weak point at the T-Slot, but whereas floor-models at the store are even more delicate (too many people trying too many things on tools that are not their own), I am quite confident in my care to my tools that unless it's a production defect (under warranty) I should not have much issues with it (or so I hope…lol) but - it IS a good point - I just find that if it was indeed the cause and reason for this modification on the 'cheap' model - why wasn't it introduces in the more expensive models - which customer would expect more out of?


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## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

Steel City says they use the best granite available in China

ROTFL! We've seen their plywood! What they actually mean is - it's the best quality we can get for the cheapest price we can squeeze out of Chinese suppliers! Gotta keep them CEO salaries up…


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## cabinetmaster (Aug 28, 2008)

Thanks for the post. I'd buy another grizzly before I would buy a Steel City.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

by no means did I try to suggest that Steel City products are of low quality, for all I know of their previous products they are top notch, and from other's and my own experience, Steel City Customer Service is very responsive and helpful.

with that aside - I guess I was expecting this new product to be at the same level of quality as their other products, and was somewhat surprised to realize they brought to the market a product which they knew little about and backed it up with their name.

When I put it all on paper, comparing this saw with the ridgid R4511, they are both the same, and the decision would have to depend on which would I rather go with - a slightly more powerful motor (1 3/4 compared to 1 1/2 hp) full set of riving knives (which I could get separately, so maybe it's not THAT big of an issue) and Steel City name, or a for less money, have the Ridgid name on it, with the lifetime guarantee they have, and I must say - as much as I'd like to have the 1 3/4hp and full set of riving knives (and a forrest WWII blade that they give with this saw this month) I'm a bit uneasy trusting SC with this saw after all these 'surprises' I've come to know trying to get info on this saw…


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## marcb (May 5, 2008)

Whats a T-Slot? Ok, I'm kidding I've seen them before but I don't have a single tool that has one


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

Update: Just ordered the Ridgid Hybrid Saw, being delivered in 2 days to my place. done deal.

basically the same saw, but without the negative psychological notions I was getting from the SC one.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

thats the plan. will keep you posted once I fiddle with it some.


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

For the sake of the planet and in the interest of not promoting slave labor, I think woodworkers should reject this latest marketing gimick to use granite tops on the table saws anyway. That would be the deal breaker for me. Marrying a material which would likely last for 1 million years to a tool designed for not more than 50 is a blatant misuse of resources.

Do you know where these granite tops are coming from?


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## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

never mind


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

*daltxguy* - I checked, mine is coming from the store …

there are pros and cons for using granite, or cast iron - I'm not 100% sold on the granite either, but thats the only option available for the saws that I was looking at - I did check with the manufacturers about the option of getting those in cast iron and received a negative reply.

as far as waste of planet resource…. these tools are definitely built to last longer than your common kitchen - which uses far more granite, and is far more common (more people get kitchen countertops than people ordering woodworking machinery), so, I'm not sure how valid of a point that is, and why it's raised on this forum and not in home-remodeling forums, home center stores, and the likes…

*EEngineer*- I agree with you on the initial post you made (dinosaurs and all) but thats another discussion for another day.


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

PurpleLev,

Discussions about the use of granite for kitchens belongs in another forum. The point is that woodworking machinery manufacturers are choosing to market and sell products with granite tops to people like us. Why? most likely because of lower cost and therefore either higher profits or at least keeping the product at the same price level. All the blah, blah about pros and cons is the result of marketing people and product managers who say, yeah, we can make this work for the company.

However, my point is, as people who work a renewable resource, we should look at the tools we are buying to work that resource and ask questions about where they come from. Consumers should inform themselves about where products are made and who makes them and why they are so cheap. When our tools begin incorporating non-renewable resource like granite tops, harder questions should be asked.

The Chinese manufacturers do not get their granite from China, they are merely processed in China. There are no granite quarries in China that I know of. Likely this granite is coming from India…but i don't know and I wonder if even the manufacturer knows.

As we become more interested in the provenance of our timber products and make sure it comes from a sustainable source, so should we be asking about the source of all of the materials in our tools. Even in a recession, the US is still the biggest consumer in the world. What you decide in the US affects the world.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

*daltxguy* - thats a good point, and is worth questioning.


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## marcb (May 5, 2008)

Well, I know there are 2 white granite quarry's in south China, can't name a black granite quarry in China off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure they're are a couple.

On the other hand considering the "quality" of cast iron out of China, granite looks better and better on these new saws.


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## Poetinwood (Apr 26, 2009)

I think the problem with the t slots in granite and washers is just that: Washers! I solved the problem
with jigs and t-slots by buying aluminum t-bars. They are extruded aluminum the entire length of the slot, so no washers. I bought them from Peachtree Woodworking at $16 for 48" lengths. Part #1034. No more worries. These things are fairly scarce.


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## msrvfx (Jun 20, 2009)

I recently purchase the 35920 Granite Top Table Saw, and I must say the quality control of manufacturing is sorely lacking, and the assembly manual has entire sections missing.

One hole on the base intended for the adjustable stationary foot was not even threaded. I had to go buy the appropriate tap and thread it myself before any of the rest of assembly could be done! 
That cost me $18 extra just to get your saw to sit up straight on the floor, before I could do any more assembly! Hardly wait to find out what else is wrong. I saw a review of a Rigid granite top that looks like it came off the same assembly line, that had exactly the saw issue.

Manual has no instructions on how to level the side granite arm table tops.
You leave it up to the customer to guess and figure that out too.

The manual has no mention of the rail/fence attachment, setup or adjustment for the rails associated with the fence. Pitiful!

Nothing about adjustment of the fence for parallel to the blade either.

The location and placement of the clear plastic window as part of the fence over the rail tape rule is off in such a way as to always visually distort the numbers under it, due to the bevel of the plastic. A guessing game. Poor quality control, or a complete lack of it. I am sure I will need to remove your hard to see grey tape , and replace it with another tape, at my additional expense, just to be able to read the numbers under the plastic window indicator. Left right tapes are around $10-15 each. that's an additional $20-30 for me.

This is what I have encountered so far, and I haven't finished the assembly yet. Not looking forward to what I will encounter next. 
The way I see it, they owe me a check for $38-48 just to cover the things I had to spend out of pocket to get the saw assembled. I can see now why they have thrown in a Forrest blade to sweeten the purchases. Not sweet enough. Once it is all set up and adjusted, it may be a fine saw…..but the frustration of getting there is something else


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