# Supershop owners



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

This is a group for Supershop owners to share information about their machines. I used to be a dealer for the Fox Supershop designed and built by Tony Fox operations and one has been in my shop since 1980, a year after they were introduced in 1979.

A lot of information has already been shared.

Many knock offs have been produced and most are faithful reproductions of the original, with the exception of the power lateral feed. Many parts will be interchangeable (withing machining tolerances). There are no known caches of parts any more. As of 2018 Smithy has stopped taking calls about Super Shops.

Let's share our information, experiences, setups. We can offer machines for sale or point to sites trying to sell one. If you find or have a stash of parts, please post here.
From the manual:









One at work:









DanK


----------



## Handtooler (Jul 24, 2012)

Certainly looks a lot like my ShopSmith MK 5 purchased in 1974 and still in operation today


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Other than the functions the machine performs, the Fox Super Shop has very little in common with Shopsmith. Tony Fox was an engineer at Magna Engineering, the birthplace of the Shopsmith, and they came to a parting of ways over future designs. Tony designed the Super Shop to be heavy enough for metal work because he wanted both DIY markets, the woodworkers and the metal workers. The problematic Reeves pulleys used by Shopsmith were his pet peeve, so none of the Super Shops have them. Variable speed is achieved by constant torque electronic controls of a 110V/220V DC motor. It also has powered lateral feed which Shopsmith never considered. In 1975 I proposed a lateral feed idea to Shopsmith, sending them full size mechanical drawings of how they could do it economically, but they politely said "no thanks". The Super Shop outweighs the Shopsmith by nearly 400 lbs. Having owned and used Super Shops and Shopsmith machines side by side, I can testify that they both have limitations, but both are worthy machines. The Shopsmith organization is strong enough to have survived some very trying times, to their credit. Shopsmith people and machines are welcome here too! 
DanK


----------



## Handtooler (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks Dan for your very detailed explanation in their differences. Excellent write up.


----------



## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

Your interest group might be rather small. I have never heard of the machine and I have been woodworking since 1976.


----------



## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I have a Shopsmith that I use for all kinds of sanding… flat sander, pneumatic drum sander, spindle sander and also as a lathe.

Not long ago, I used a Super shop and was very impressed. It is a very sturdy solid machine and with I had one.


----------



## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

Interesting topic. I had no idea about the Super Shop. Have seen a Shopsmith at a guys shop but never used one myself.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

One of the setups I experimented with was power cutting dowels. Notice that I'm using a custom tail stock which holds a hollow shaft with R-8 collet taper and threaded like the head stock spindle. This makes tooling setups very convenient. There's a much better method I think, and some day I'll get around to experimenting with it. The three jaw chuck on the tail is stationary (don't get excited about key left in chuck) and fitted with wooden jaws that hold the round section of the stick after the cutter. The little chuck on the headstock is a four jaw that grips the square stick. When in operation, the headstock is cranked toward the tailstock while the stick is spinning against the cutter. The round stock exits through the hollow tail stock tube, which also holds it from flopping like a fish out of water.



























The middle and last picture are from the back side. The middle picture shows the stationary cutter in the lathe tool rest. This tool holder was an optional accessory available in the day.

DanK


----------



## CNC4FUN (Jan 23, 2019)

I have converted Supershop to CNC mill/lathe combo.

Here is link:

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ecnczone%2Ecom%2Fforums%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D366130&share_tid=366130&share_fid=11158&share_type=t


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I was fascinated by this conversion effprt. I'm kinda curious though, If you replaced the lateral carriage motor with a stepping motor, would that not have served well? Too much back lash? Not that it matter, but I think that is what Tony's original intent was.

Top RPM for main spindle is 7200 RPM.

DanK


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

Hello Members, I signed into site to keep up to date with the Supershop. I have the Smithy Supershop 220v with all accessories (except the band saw). Purchased the year Smithy discontinued selling the machine, had a 50% off inventory clearance.

JethrowClampett


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Good show, Jethrow. Some pictures would be nice. Do you use it a lot?

DanK


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Is this the same Smithy Corp that used to make miniature overhead mills and precision metal working lathes for small shops?


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Yes, PPK. They still make mills and lathes and combo machines but not the Supershop. Their metal working stuff has a pretty good reputation and I've been tempted. Missed a GREAT deal at Christmas last year where they were selling deeply discounted.
DanK


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

> Good show, Jethrow. Some pictures would be nice. Do you use it a lot?
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Dan, I use it lightly, with home renovation projects this spring I will be using it quite a bit for molding etc. I will upload pictures.


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

> Is this the same Smithy Corp that used to make miniature overhead mills and precision metal working lathes for small shops?
> 
> - poopiekat


Yes Same business out of Michigan (still in business), in fact they provided light milling options for the Super Shop. I passed on that, but with the R8 collet you can pick up those options on other websites. The machine seems to be identical to the Fox. I did purchase the 6 in. joiner option, the thing weighs 80 lbs. I have all of the wood turning options, but didn't pick up the band saw. I would assume the Fox band saw would work, been on craigslist for that options, but owners were selling that as a package with the machine ( wouldn't separate for purchase).


----------



## Ripper70 (Nov 30, 2015)

Here's one for sale in Frankfort, OH. Seems to be in pretty good condition.


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

Hi Dan and others!

I picked up an old (and slightly rough-around-the-edges) SuperShop a few years ago. I already had a pretty full woodshop - I bought it solely to use as a drill press and lathe. I think it would be a fantastic drill press if it was in better condition. So I've been looking for another in better shape, ever since. Finally found one - will be picking it up next weekend, I hope. Looks like it has all the add-on tools as well (which I doubt I'll ever use). I can post some pictures of both machines when I get it home, if there is interest.

Mine has the motorized carriage…I'm hoping to do a little light metalworking on it at some point, but haven't yet. I need some metalworking cutters, first


----------



## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

Hi to my white squirrel buddy. 
Since 1975 there has been at least one Shopsmith in my shop. It's down to two, now. One outfitted with a Jointech and router table. As you might surmise, that one is pretty much limited to the saw and router functions. My other one is a shorty, with all her functions still intact. Well, more or less. I don't do any turning. Other than the disc sanders, the only accessories are the BS and the 6X48 belt sander. My metal working tasks are handled by my son. I stick with wood. 
But, were a Total Shop machine to become available anywhere near me, I'd sure consider owning it…or turn my boy on to it.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Merrill77- is the one you are picking up the same as just sold on eBay for around $360 in West Virginia? I considered but not ready to make a road trip yet. I repair Shopsmith tools for over 16 years now and used them in my shop for over 40. I have 5 main Shopsmith machines- 510/520 (I can change out the table rails); 2 minis- one bandsaw & jigsaw- saw station & one belt sander disc or strip sander- sanding station; one is short base as drill press- 2 tables- one for wood and other with machinest's vise for metal; 2 machines connected together as a lathe originally used to core wooden baseball bats until Sosa got busted. 
I just traded a repaired headstock for a Fox SuperShop. What a tank! The table height lock front brake broke but I was able to jury rig it and it fits back into slot but doesn't brake. I am still working with adjustments and ideas to make it grab. But I am impressed with it overall. I especially like the lathe function and 32-7200 rpm. 
I contacted Dan K and his goal starting this blog was to assist SuperShop owners. I am starting to collect as much information about them and the differences between the machines over the manufacturing years from Fox, to Ironwoo, to Smithy and whatever other companies made it similar branded machine. If you have some information about parts and sources, please send to me and I will start compiling it so we can all share it. If you have any Shopsmith questions, feel free to also bump me. Work email is [email protected]


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

Yup, that is the one. I think the same feature is broken on the one I'm going to pick up. Oddly, I don't think I've ever really used that feature on the one I have. Hmm.

So far, I've only dealt with Smithy for repair parts, so I have nothing to offer there. Thanks for your offer to help!


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I forgot to mention in private conversation with DTM that a pair of hose clamps on the table holding shafts will hold the table securely. There must have been a bad batch of brake shoes somewhere along the line. If you find them to be cast, replace them with turned steel ones like the originals.

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

This is a picture of the double Shopsmith in the guy's basement when I bought it in 2013.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Yes, that's a stretch version alright!

I have the capability of stretching a Supershop similarly. A second pair of way tubes has inserts that slip into the right end of the way tubes on a machine and terminate in the tailstock casting resting on another base. Extends the lathe to almost 9 feet and is very solid. I haven't used it since digital cameras so I have no pictures of it set up. The interesting thing is that the power feed carriage works on the extended tubes without interruption because the spacing of the broached teeth on the underside of the ways' ends is perfect match when fully butted together. Turned a set of 6×6" porch posts.

There is a danger that may not be obvious to someone trying to stretch a Supershop. The tailstock casting has an extremely heavy torsion spring in it that must be carefully locked down when the way tubes are to be removed. I made sure that both locks (that secure the machine vertically AND horizontally) were firmly engaged in a dimple I drilled for the purpose. Be very careful.

DanK


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

Dan - do you remember how you modified the tubes to connect them together? I don't know that I'll ever turn a 6' post, but I'd think I may have the need to turn something a little longer than the stock limitations allow, such as a baseball bat or barstool leg.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

M77, yes, I turned some steel rod to fit the ID of the way tubes. You should note that on Tony's machines the ID of the front tube is different than the back tube. That is due, I think, to the broached teeth in the front one.
The connectors are only about 8" long and are secured with short set screws. A very tight slip fit is essential.

The standard lathe on my setup can reach 39" CTC. It would be a real pain to set up the stretch in my crowded shop now!

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Another possible way to attach machines is like the super-long Shopsmith was done. The guy I bought it from was a machinist and machined a piece between each set of bars with same out side diameter but each end has a lip to seat inside the bar bores. Then threaded rob with couplers in the center all the way to ends. he capped ends and rod came out a drilled hole and he capped it with a flat piece of metal and nut and lock washer. It works great. The bars are about 10' long and very heavy so I can imagine multiply that times the weight of the bars for the Supershop!


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

In the case of the Supershop bars, that method does not take into consideration the broached teeth under the front tube. The carriage won't move onto the extension unless those teeth match up perfectly. I suppose one could remove the internal carriage gear and make it work. The bars are heavy enough that set screws onto the connector hold well and do not need a lengthy threaded rod to hold them together. The sockets in the end castings are not very deep and if there is a nut preventing it from bottoming out completely, there could be trouble with the big torsion force. Now, it's possible to drill the socket in the center for space, I suppose, but I just haven't experienced the need for an internal rod to hold it together.

I can see that method working well on the Shopsmith, though. The tension of the rods would make the bars a little stiffer.

DanK


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

I picked up my 2nd SuperShop yesterday. It is in fantastic shape :> Unlike my first, which was pulled from a barn by the PO, this one has been well cared for. It came with all the original accessories and manual, as well as the belt sander, bandsaw and jointer add-ons. I have a vague memory of these being the same as the ShopSmith accessories - is that true? I'm kinda skeptical on the jointer. I think it may weigh as much as the entire ShopSmith! Ok, maybe not that much…but it is a beast. Don't want to move that thing around any more than needed. Here it is, in my crowded shop. You can see my first one in the background.










Things that I'll need to fix/improve:
1) The table height lock lever is broken - actually the fitting that the lever screws into is split. I have the parts. Hopefully I can make a replacement. Or pull it off my first one.










2) No motorized carriage. My first one has this…it looks like all the castings are the same and the holes are there…so I think I'll be able to move it over. I really like that feature, especially for vertical drill press.
3) Can't get the belt sander to tension. The provided instructions say to turn one way until machine labors, then turn back and let the auto-tension take over. First part is good…but then the belt just goes slack. There is what appears to be a push-in button on the tension knob. What does that do?










4) Lift torsion is not set correctly. Lifting to vertical position is a bear.

I have a large bandsaw and had not planned to keep the bandsaw add-on, until the owner pointed out that it is variable speed…and therefore useable on metal, which my WWing bandsaw is obviously not. So maybe I'll keep it.


----------



## Hockey (Apr 9, 2017)

What is the approximate selling price (not asking price) of these Super Shops. I know that Shopsmiths sell for way less than they are worth on the used market. Also, does anyone know if the sliding table with the drill vise slots will fit on a Shopsmith, particularly in reference to the way tubes dimensions?


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

I think selling price is probably all over the map. There is both very low supply (because they didn't make many) and very low demand (both because nobody has heard of them and because there is no longer much support from the manufacturer). I just bought this one for $360 on eBay. Asking prices are frequently over $1000. I think a few on eBay over the last few years have sold in that range…not sure.

No, the tubes are different sizes, so that won't work.


----------



## Hockey (Apr 9, 2017)

Thank's, merrill77.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I have no experience with the belt sander, so I'm no help with that issue. Yes, the carriage should move onto the newer machine but it may be stiff because machining tolerances were tight on that and if it's off just a hair… and yes, I use the lateral feed all the time. Right now it's being used to carry a router jig to duplicate balusters. May get a picture later today.

There is a procedure for adjusting the torsion spring. It's done with the machine in the standing position to minimize tension. There are three allen head sockets screws to loosen and I think a large pipe wrench or strap wrench with a cheater is involved. I've only done it once to a machine decades ago, so I don't remember. I'd have to look, but I think the owner's manual describes the procedure. Oh, and the head should be moved to the extreme right before attempting to stand it up.

Fox's jointers were heavy machines, true, because he started making them beefier than Shopsmiths. He made several 3 wheel band saws, but the end of his run came before they were marketed much. He did cast adapters that held Shopsmith equipment and it seems that later producers welded some together.

The height lock looks like a casting in the picture. Replace it with a piece of mild steel machined and threaded to fit and it will last forever.

Selling prices vary widely as merrill points out. I confirm what he said about tubes not fitting. We're pretty much on our own for (our mutual) support.

DanK


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

I adjusted the torsion spring last night. There is a tool specifically for that…my 1st unit did not come with one so I had to make one. The tool is just a rod with 2 pins sticking out. Anyway, it appears that the PO had actually torqued it the wrong way…it was pushing the tubes down instead of pulling them up. Works much better now


----------



## Hockey (Apr 9, 2017)

Thank's, Dan.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Here is a short video a Supershop equipped with a lathe duplicator jig. What you can't see in this video is hidden under the white tin shield that protects the linear motion front to back. It's simply a 1/2" x 2" piece of mild steel with slanted sides (like so <--> ) riding between pairs of V groove bearings secured to the T slots to hold the bar snugly. My right hand is applying slight pressure to keep the stylus against the template. The carriage is autofeeding at about 1/2 speed with the spindle turning at 300 rpm. The first and only pass stopped at the detail and I manually held the follower steady left to right to round the detail area cleanly, then finished the detail under power as seen.

Takes about 1 1/2 minutes to move about 24" along a 36" turning, maybe two minutes to complete this whole operation. I'll have to touch up the turnings by hand to round the rest of the baluster the router could not reach in this setup, crisp the detail, and sand them. A set of 36 in red oak for a stairwell railing in my house. So the main benefit here is getting consistent size, shape, and placement of the detail.

DanK


----------



## P89DC (Oct 1, 2017)

> This is a picture of the double Shopsmith in the guy s basement when I bought it in 2013.
> 
> - DantheToolman


It's the Sammy Sosa bat maker. It was advertised on the Rockford Craigslist as being the perfect set-up for coarking bats. Notice the bat in the picture…


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

That is a nice setup, Dan! I assume you considered a spring so you don't have to stand there…did you eventually do that?


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

No, I haven't done that and yes I've considered it. But it's no trouble to hold it…takes very little pressure and I can quickly take the router out of the cut if there's trouble. A spring seems like it would get in the way as much as be helpful. It's never going to be something I can walk away from, so this keeps me paying attention!  I might consider a friction stop to hold the follower for cutting cylinders (like dowels) but there's another type of setup I made for that purpose before the follower was made.

Notice that there is no center support on the 1" diameter spindle in this long cut, that's how little pressure there is to the cutting action.

DanK


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

I was thinking that, along with the spring, you could add a cut-off switch based on ending carriage position and then you could walk away from it  Overkill, I admit, for making just 30 spindles.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

LOL Merrill, BTDT. Sometimes there's a fine line between manual and CNC type automation. It was Tony's dream however, long before CNC was common, to replace the plastic emblem panel with electronic controls that essentially turned this machine into an engine lathe and powerfeed mill, not really CNC but a good deal more automatic than it ever became. His biggest barrier I think was the prohibitive expense of stepping motors of the time. My philosophy is becoming more and more KISS!

DanK


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

Yesterday I took some time to thoroughly clean my new SS. Then I pulled the carriage motor and controls out of my old SS and transplanted them into the newer one. I think the old is a Fox and the new is a Smithy (at least, the manual that came with it said Smithy). The Fox has a serial# plate (01042), while the Smithy does not. Found some minor differences and took some pics along the way. I'm mostly posting these for documentation purposes, in case anyone is interested. But maybe I should be posting this info over on VintageMachinery.org? Anyway…

Here is the Fox motor:









...and the Smithy









I had hoped to transplant the broken part from the table lock lever on my old unit to the new one, but they are different. Old (Fox) on right, new (Smithy) on left"










Making my own replacement now seems daunting, since it needs a square hole. Which I could do in wood…but not in steel 

Other than the condition, the interior of the carriage is mostly the same. Looks to use the same casting mold. But there were 2 key differences. First, the 3 holes for bolting the motor bracket into the carriage were different sizes - 7mm bolts for the Fox, 8mm for the Smithy. That required a trip to the store. Also, if the carriage came with a motor, it looks like the carriage position lock is omitted - that is the top-most horizontal rod, which sits at the back of the housing in the newer pic. At least, it was missing in the Fox. So now, without the motor as a brake, I don't have a way to lock the carriage position…making usage in vertical mode problematic.



















Info on the carriage motor:


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

Merrill77 - congratulation on the bid, I was the other guy bidding against you on e-bay. Was only interested in the attachments, so I didn't want to go beyond $350. One thing that's odd, is the Power Station, the drive has a slice down the middle of the shaft.

I'm hooking up the jointer (its a beast) and I noticed that the fitting that goes over the power shaft (metal coupling), doesn't screw on, rather floats on the threaded shaft and there is a break pin that slides though the slice down the power shaft for the power transfer.

Is yours the same ? I'm guessing this is for safety purposes or am I missing something ?


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Merrill, sure you can make a square hole in metal and rather easily. BTDT many times. Drill a hole whose diameter is the same as the side of the square. Thine with a square file simple file out the corners. Doesn't take as long as you would imagine.

I've never seen a motorized carriage without a lock shaft. All of mine have had it. At the end, quality control suffered.

While I think the lock shaft on the Fox Supershops carriage is threaded left and right, I don't see why a right hand thread in a wedge block wouldn't work. Haven't tried it, though. Worse comes to worse, use a hose clamp on the tube. It's remarkable what they will restrain.

Thanks for all the pictures!
DanK


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

> Merrill77 - congratulation on the bid, I was the other guy bidding against you on e-bay. Was only interested in the attachments, so I didn t want to go beyond $350.


Ironic. I didn't have much interest in the attachments  Probably would have paid the same without them.



> One thing that s odd, is the Power Station, the drive has a slice down the middle of the shaft.
> 
> I m hooking up the jointer (its a beast) and I noticed that the fitting that goes over the power shaft (metal coupling), doesn t screw on, rather floats on the threaded shaft and there is a break pin that slides though the slice down the power shaft for the power transfer.
> 
> Is yours the same ? I m guessing this is for safety purposes or am I missing something ?


I'm guessing that power take-off design is some sort of standard. But I'd say that, along with the nylon connector, this allows a connection where the two shafts are not perfectly aligned…or where one end or the other might move a little in use. Just guessing, though.


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

Dan - good point. I guess that shouldn't take too long in mild steel. I don't have a good quality file for that…but that is a solvable problem.

Unfortunately, I've run in to a more immediate problem. For my 1st SS, I made a rotating mount for the main upright mount that allows me to turn the unit 90deg in vertical mode, so that the vertical drill press faces a more useful direction in my shop. After the successful carriage motor transplant, I though this part would be easy. And it was, until the very last hole I needed to drill in the base. Hit a weld line that I can't get through (the details of the base construction are somewhat different between the two). My drill bits just skate right off it that weld. Considering my options now. Try to find a portable magnetic drill press to rent? Or remove the entire beast off the stand and take it to a machine shop? So close…and yet so far.


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

> Ironic. I didn t have much interest in the attachments  Probably would have paid the same without them.
> - merrill77


I will pm you.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Merrill, will a rotary grinder or carbide burr make the hole the right size? Dremel offers diamond burrs that are pretty aggressive. And of course, a plasma cutter…

DanK


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks - I had overlooked abrasive cutters. That will take a while, but maybe not as long as taking the base to a machine shop. I'll start with some of the ceramic cutting disks I've used for steel in the past and see how far that gets me. I think I have some diamond cutters in my kit as well.


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

I noted another difference between my two models - the thread size on the quill shaft. The older (Fox) has 1 15/16" diameter flat-top threads:










while the newer (Smithy) has 2 1/4" standard threads:










I don't know what the dis/advantages of each are, or why the change.


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

I've just completed moving my rotating base over to the new SuperShop. Here are some pics, in case future visitors are interested. First, moved the head and carriage to the "top" end, supported the underside of the carriage and detached the hinged mount from the base and the tubes. I was able to complete the work without taking the head, carriage or tubes off the machine…and the tubes were (mostly) not impeding the work.

Next, drill a new set of 6 holes in the base. The original holes are circled in blue (3 of the 4 will still be used) and the new holes are in red. Note that I hit a weld line on the lower-right hole and was forced to use an abrasive cutter…hence the ugly square hole  Fortunately, invisible in use.










Next comes the lower half of the rotating mount. I used 1.5" BB plywood and matched the hole spacing to re-use the existing holes where possible. The head of the center bolt is epoxied in place on the underside - this is the bolt that the top half rotates around. The four bolt heads that you see here secure the bottom half to the SuperShop base. The top, empty, counter-sunk hole is extraneous and not needed. The lower, empty, counter-sunk hole is used, but did not need the counter-sink.










Then I put the hinged mount back on the tubes and attached the top half of the rotating mount using the existing mounting holes. After lowering it onto the bottom half, it looks like this:










In either of the rotated positions, there are 4 bolts holding it all in place - the center (which remains in place) and 3 that are removed during the rotation. I used wing nuts for quick change on those 3 - you can see two of them above (the third is to the right of the hinged mount). Here it is from the front:










After moving the carriage and head to the hinged end and raising to the vertical position, it can be easily rotated by removing the 3 bolts with wing nuts, rotating and then replacing the bolts. Here is the base when rotated:










Note that if you wanted to rotate the other direction, then the ugly square hole would need to move to the other side of the base.

Of course, after raising the hinged end 3", the other side needs to be raised, as well:










And here it is in my shop. Since I mostly use the SuperShop as a drill press, I make use of the extra space for more tools


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

> My drill bits just skate right off it that weld. Considering my options now. Try to find a portable magnetic drill press to rent? Or remove the entire beast off the stand and take it to a machine shop? So close…and yet so far.
> - merrill77


Grind the weld point where you want to drill. Then drill.


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

> Grind the weld point where you want to drill. Then drill.
> 
> - JethrowClampett


Do you mean to grind a starter hole? I'll try that next time. Thanks.


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

> Grind the weld point where you want to drill. Then drill.
> 
> - JethrowClampett
> 
> ...


Yes grind the weld point flat so the bit doesn't skate !


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Merrill, you have the machine base pretty well weighted according to the picture, but in my own shop I would be real concerned about balance. To do milling work I put about 200 lbs of fixtures on the carriage (to the point where I worry about breaking out the T-slots) and if it were turned crossways as you have it, it would certainly topple. I'm glad the machine has the flexibility to better suit your needs!

DanK


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Regarding threads on the headstock, the original Fox machines were standard acme bolt threads 2" x 4 TPI and if you have enough money you can buy stock hex nuts that fit. BTDT. It's not common thread for headstocks, that's for sure!

I can't explain why the manufacturers after Fox changed the headstock spindle to another uncommon size, but there must be a reason.

Thanks for the detailed pictures!

DanK


----------



## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

Hey folks. I don't have one of these machines but I stumbled on this post on CL in Pheonix this morning and thought I'd post it here for y'all. $600 for a complete setup with all attachments.

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/tls/d/phoenix-fox-super-shop/6832853296.html


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

> I put about 200 lbs of fixtures on the carriage (to the point where I worry about breaking out the T-slots) and if it were turned crossways as you have it, it would certainly topple.
> - Dan Krager


Dan, I think he could put a safety cable from head stock to anchored in the wall. I would lower the head stock on heavy stuff or moving.


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

I don't typically put anything big and heavy on the drill press table. Were I going to do that, I would probably just switch to horizontal mode. I made a folding wheeled stand for the tool cabinet that sits on the base, so switching only takes a few minutes.


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

> Hey folks. I don t have one of these machines but I stumbled on this post on CL in Pheonix this morning and thought I d post it here for y all. $600 for a complete setup with all attachments.
> 
> https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/tls/d/phoenix-fox-super-shop/6832853296.html
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks, Ken. Looks to be in good shape. Better than my older Fox machine.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

That's a very good deal, Ken. Should be snapped up!

DanK


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

Where can I get a wood turning face plate for the Smithy Super Shop ?


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

If you have the 12" sanding disc that usually came with these machines, you already have one. Unscrew the 4" diameter plate with the stem and use wood screws in the 4 holes to hold the blank.

DanK


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

Thanks Dan, yes I have the sanding disk, great idea !


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

Who can explain how to use the depth stop? I see how to adjust and tighten it, so that it stops the quill. But I'm thinking the sticker was installed incorrectly because I can't find a use-case where those numbers can be applied in a helpful way.

As an example, following the instructions in the manual, I lower the bit to touch the top of my workpiece. Then set the gauge to 1" and tighten the wheel (making sure the measurement does not move in the process). When I then lower the quill further, it stops roughly 3/4" below the surface of the workpiece.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Did the indicator dial stop at 0 when the quill stopped, or did it still show 1/4" left to travel?

My bet is that the quill has been removed and did not get returned in the same teeth it was shipped with. The tip off is that those teeth are in the vicinity of 1/4" apart as the dial rotates (not on the quill itself). The ring markers are approximate, but should be within 1/8" or less for sure.

I've found myself "tightening" the stop the wrong direction. From the front of the machine, the tightening ring should be turned counter clockwise to tighten the stop properly.

Also, remove the handle and rings from the back side to see if there is foreign material not letting the stop full travel. It's possible it was not reassembled correctly.

You com up with the oddest issues! LOL. Never have seen this one either.

DanK


----------



## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

> Hey folks. I don t have one of these machines but I stumbled on this post on CL in Pheonix this morning and thought I d post it here for y all. $600 for a complete setup with all attachments.
> 
> https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/tls/d/phoenix-fox-super-shop/6832853296.html
> 
> - HokieKen


Dropped another $100 to $500 asking.


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

The indicator doesn't reach zero when it stops.

I've already had the depth-stop ring off…as with the rest of the machine, it is neat and clean inside.

Interesting thought on the quill removal…I'll have to think about that.

When I turn the depth-stop ring fully clockwise, it stops here:










And fully counter-clockwise:










That is where it stops when in use, instead of at zero.

Are the indicated numbers the same where your ring stops? TIA!


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

Merrill, I would pull that tape off, if possible, and retape back on, a steam iron would soften up the glue. If not possible, pick up a strip of writable stick on tape, tape it on, measure and mark. I had the same problem with mine. Plus I don't trust the calibration out of the box, I measured and reset everything.

If you want true accuracy get a set of drill stop collars $7.


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks, Jethrow - I wanted to confirm that the placement is incorrect before doing that…since I'm not even sure if I'm using the feature correctly. Thanks for the tip on heating the sticker…I hadn't considered that. I have a heat gun, so I'll try that.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Merrill, another thought. Perhaps the ring is on backwards and is on the wrong side of the stop.










DanK


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

Merrill, I measured the actual calibration against the factory tape markings. The factory tape is inaccurate on my machine. One inch on the tape is just under an inch on the stock shaft movement. There is a little play on the hand lever, I even adjusted for that. For real accuracy you could also mark the shaft.


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks!

I noted another difference between my two SuperShops, as I was prepping my older (Fox) unit for sale. When I first set it up I had noted, with annoyance, that the miter gauge slots in the table were a non-standard size (1" IIRC) so that gauges from other tools or 3rd parties could not be used on it. On my newer unit (Smithy), the miter gauge slots are compatible with all the other tools in my shop. Yay!

Last - a question about tightening the quill travel wheels. What kind of tool can you use to adjust this? It is a 1" nut, but a 1" socket doesn't fit in there 










The wheel on the other side has a smaller shaft and nut, so that one was no problem. This one has me puzzled.


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

Merrill, Use a thin walled socket, like they use in spark plugs removal. There usually deep sockets that have to fit in recessed areas.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Hey folks. I don t have one of these machines but I stumbled on this post on CL in Pheonix this morning and thought I d post it here for y all. $600 for a complete setup with all attachments.

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/tls/d/phoenix-fox-super-shop/6832853296.html

Wish it was closer and I would go for it. I am watching for one closer to Knoxville and would prefer the Fox version. Mine has the motorized carriage and I see possibilities…......

Merrill77- I like the turning base- nicely done. So you say yuou want to sell your Fox SuperShop? I think we need to talk. ;+D


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

> Merrill, Use a thin walled socket, like they use in spark plugs removal. There usually deep sockets that have to fit in recessed areas.


I'll look for one of those. I just bought a 1" socket…I didn't know 'thin-walled' socket was a thing. Thanks!



> Hey folks. I don t have one of these machines but I stumbled on this post on CL in Pheonix this morning and thought I d post it here for y all. $600 for a complete setup with all attachments.
> ...
> So you say yuou want to sell your Fox SuperShop? I think we need to talk. ;+D


That ad was posted 2 weeks ago on this thread. Mine sold in 2 days for about the same price…and mine was in much rougher condition. I had 4 people interested…one of them texted me daily, while the sale was pending, wanting to know if the sale went through. Which just goes to show: a well-written ad can make a *big* difference. Nobody knows what these things are…ya gotta explain it if you want it to sell.


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

Dan - how did you mount your 3 jaw chuck? With the spindle threads or using the R8 collett system?

I've found one baseplate adapter for my 2-1/4×8 spindle threads - but that seems to be a pretty uncommon size. Just wondering what most people have done (as if there is more than 5 of us…).


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I had a base plate custom machined for the chuck and spindle threads. The threads are standard ACME threads on the Fox machines, so not difficult to match. In fact, if you have enough money, you can buy an ACME hex nut that will fit, but it's not cost effective. You'll still need machining. The R-8 won't provide the torque and stability of a spindle mounted chuck.

10-4 on the rarity. You can't pick these things up at Walmart, or any other big box (BORG) store for that matter. They don't sell Bridgeports either, so we go to where machinists hang out. Tony Fox used several of his machines set up as lathes and mills to make parts for the machine, so that inspires me to do the same from time to time. The good news is that I haven't needed much.

And the irony is that I chickened out on machining a new shaft for my post hole digger! There were some tight tolerances on the head end that I didn't think I could achieve, so I thought $75 was well spent.

DanK


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

Dan, I was thinking the same thing. I'd rather turn on the spindle thread than on the collet for big bowels and heavy legs and machining. I figure that machining and adaptor would be reasonable. I wouldn't be surprised that Smithy carries or knows of a vendor that manufacturers one.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I was referring to a metal lathe chuck as I made the comments. I have a large Nova chuck mounted on a custom R-8 whose threads match the Nova native thread without adapter and nests in the taper that centers the chuck.. Works the best of all I've tried short of a custom back plate, which the Nova's are not configured to use. I've tried an R-8 MT-2 with adapter to the Nova, but it wouldn't stay put under heavy load and tossed a large bowl at me. A straight shank adapter at 3/4" did better, but still liked to slip under heavy cutting on large diameters. R-8 collets do not have large gripping surfaces and weren't designed to turn large heavy loads, I think. On a Bridgeport, the largest diameter used might be a boring bar, but the R-8 on those heads is integral to the bar holding head, so no slippage is possible. Perhaps one could note a difference in purpose between R-8 collet and R-8 adapter, the latter being integral or nearly so to whatever it is driving.

My local machine shop likes me.

DanK


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

My target would be woodworking, but I'd love the capability to do metalwork at some point.

I came across this back plate adapter which fits my thread (need to double-check).
https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1923

But I am not sure I understand this part:

These adapters require machining on the lathe on which they will be used.

Does that mean that I need to buy some tooling and do some work just to get this trued before use?


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I keep forgetting that some of the reproductions used standard 60° threads, not ACME. So, if the thread spec matches, it should screw on OK. The machining required is the registration diameter and the bolt holes. Nova chucks cannot be mounted to a plate.

I don't recommend using a three jaw or four jaw metal machining chucks for woodworking. Some issues to consider are that the metal machining jaws are really harsh on the wood. They do not hold wood securely like a dovetail quarter circle will. They are not restricted in any way so they will open up far enough to let the jaws protrude beyond the chuck. That is just like sticking your hand in a shaper cutter! You definitely should not use them in a recess to expand hold the wood. The narrow focus of the jaws is just too much strain on the wood at contact points. Can you say "KaBoom"? 

Having said that, I've used them in a pinch when I had nothing else better. The best alternative that will take you far down the bowl turning road is a wooden face plate, and a Longworth plate for finishing the foot. A wooden jam chuck is good for tiny spindles.

DanK


----------



## jeruedas (Oct 9, 2017)

I wonder if any body has experienced a problem that I am having with the Smithy SuperShop. I bought it a state sale years ago and have not really use it for much since the motor is too weak. Meaning it bugs down with any drilling and I can stop it with my hands. Initially had a problem that he motor did not run continuously but stutter. I came across a way to adjusting the problem by moving the dial in the 110V controller for the motor. These are 4 "dials" that are under the motor. I have a printout that tell me how to set it up initially. I wonder if anybody has come across similar issue where the motor has no power. It speeds and responds to the velocity changes from the control, but the motor does not have that much torque. I mean I place a 1/2 forstner bit to drill a piece of cherrywood and it stop the motor. Any ideas will be appreciated.
Enrique


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

There is a problem with your machine. I can spin a big forstner bit through hard wood and it doesn't bog down. A 1.5hp DC motor, when operating properly, should not be stoppable by human hands.

I used one of those dials to adjust the "zero" speed, but I have otherwise not looked into them. Maybe it needs adjustment…or maybe the controller is faulty.


----------



## jeruedas (Oct 9, 2017)

Thanks merrill77, I did look at the dials and seems they have change since I first set it up. Also, this morning I noticed that there is a problem with the belt. Seems that it has been slipping for a while and is shot and rubbery. I am going to replace it and check the dials this afternoon. I did check and the motor is rotating, I will feel stupid if it ends up being a belt issue. And happy that it will be only a few dollars. Thanks for your fast response.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

In reviewing the posts regarding the Supershop, I noticed that someone was asking about videos on the machine. I located some short videos by Smithy at https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD8444AFC55B12F5D Just page down a bit and you'll find them.

I noticed also there was some interest in mounting chucks etc., to the Supershop and thought I'd pass along how I've done that. I simply got a length of 5/8" drill rod, sawed off a length, and used a hacksaw, dremel, and file to create s Shopsmith-like "tapered flat" on one end. Mounted this in a 5/8" R8 collet and can then mount Shopsmith accessories like drill chucks, lathe drive center, saw blades, dado set, disk sander, shaper cutters, face plates, etc. I've also mounted a Nova chuck using the appropriate Shopsmith-to=Nova Chuck adapter.

For lathe turning small items between centers (like a pen), I made a second Shopsmith-like spindle that is just longer than the one mentioned above. This goes in the headstock with a Shopsmith drive center. In the tailstock, I added a morse taper #2-TO-morse taper #2 extension (this has a male mt2 on one end and a female mt2 on the other). This allows you turn small items between centers that wouldn't be possible otherwise because of the width of the Supershop carriage.

I also adapted a Shopsmith tool rest to fit into the vertical tube of the Supershop tool rest so that I could mount narrow tool rests on the Supershop. Bought a set of three tool rests from PennState Industries that fit using the included sleeve into the Shopsmith toolrest arm.


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

> In reviewing the posts regarding the Supershop, I noticed that someone was asking about videos on the machine. I located some short videos by Smithy at https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD8444AFC55B12F5D Just page down a bit and you ll find them.
> 
> I noticed also there was some interest in mounting chucks etc., to the Supershop and thought I d pass along how I ve done that. I simply got a length of 5/8" drill rod, sawed off a length, and used a hacksaw, dremel, and file to create s Shopsmith-like "tapered flat" on one end. Mounted this in a 5/8" R8 collet and can then mount Shopsmith accessories like drill chucks, lathe drive center, saw blades, dado set, disk sander, shaper cutters, face plates, etc. I ve also mounted a Nova chuck using the appropriate Shopsmith-to=Nova Chuck adapter.
> 
> ...


Ted724 - WARNING - the Shopsmith Taper is not flat. The taper is a flat progressive taper toward the headstock. That way when you tighten the set screw, if the screw is slightly loose the attachment can't fall off.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> In reviewing the posts regarding the Supershop, I noticed that someone was asking about videos on the machine. I located some short videos by Smithy at https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD8444AFC55B12F5D Just page down a bit and you ll find them.
> 
> I noticed also there was some interest in mounting chucks etc., to the Supershop and thought I d pass along how I ve done that. I simply got a length of 5/8" drill rod, sawed off a length, and used a hacksaw, dremel, and file to create s Shopsmith-like "tapered flat" on one end. Mounted this in a 5/8" R8 collet and can then mount Shopsmith accessories like drill chucks, lathe drive center, saw blades, dado set, disk sander, shaper cutters, face plates, etc. I ve also mounted a Nova chuck using the appropriate Shopsmith-to=Nova Chuck adapter.
> 
> ...


Exactly, Jethrow, that's why I referred to it as a "tapered flat." That's the same terminology that Shopsmith uses.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

For those looking for a chuck to mount on the spindle threads of the Smithy Supershop with it's 2 1/4" x 8 TPI spindle, there are over 100 items listed on ebay today, so perhaps there is something there that will fit the bill. Simply search on ebay for "2 1/4 chuck."


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

Ted742 - I think your better off ordering one from Shopsmith, there precisely machined for the attachments. A drill rod does not have 1/2 the strength for what your doing. It will snap at some time and you'll have a bad accident. All metals are not created equal. Be safe !


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> In reviewing the posts regarding the Supershop, I noticed that someone was asking about videos on the machine. I located some short videos by Smithy at https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD8444AFC55B12F5D Just page down a bit and you ll find them.
> 
> I noticed also there was some interest in mounting chucks etc., to the Supershop and thought I d pass along how I ve done that. I simply got a length of 5/8" drill rod, sawed off a length, and used a hacksaw, dremel, and file to create s Shopsmith-like "tapered flat" on one end. Mounted this in a 5/8" R8 collet and can then mount Shopsmith accessories like drill chucks, lathe drive center, saw blades, dado set, disk sander, shaper cutters, face plates, etc. I ve also mounted a Nova chuck using the appropriate Shopsmith-to=Nova Chuck adapter.
> 
> ...


Here are a couple of photos showing the Shopsmith-like spindle adapter I'm using with the Supershop along with the modification to the tool rest. The smaller spindle adapter is about 3 3/8' long. The longer one is about 7 5/8" long. In the longer one, you can see how the "flat" is tapered. Also shown is the MT2 to MT2 extension that accepts the live center in the tailstock. 









-


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Ted742 - I think your better off ordering one from Shopsmith, there precisely machined for the attachments. A drill rod does not have 1/2 the strength for what your doing. It will snap at some time and you ll have a bad accident. All metals are not created equal. Be safe !
> 
> - JethrowClampett


Jethrow, thanks for you concern, but I'm not worried in the least. I'm using O-1 drill rod. It's tool steel. Not exactly whimpy stuff.


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

Ted724 - The only way you can compare the tapers is have a Shopsmith next to your taper. I have both machines, an I don't recall the Shopsmith taper that pronounced. I don't know the engineering aspects of tapers, but each taper has specific pitches etc. for an underlying purpose. If you have a person in your area that has a Shopsmith you will see the difference. The machine metal in Shopsmith doesn't contain as much chromium and has more carbon content. Chromium causes the shine in the steel, also making the surface less abrasive. Shopsmith steel is black and has less chromium and more carbon. The surface is abrasive, thus the set screw can dig into the metal, giving it a lock-washer effect. Less chance for the set screw (low chromium - higher carbon) to come loose.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Ted724 - The only way you can compare the tapers is have a Shopsmith next to your taper. I have both machines, an I don t recall the Shopsmith taper that pronounced. I don t know the engineering aspects of tapers, but each taper has specific pitches etc. for an underlying purpose. If you have a person in your area that has a Shopsmith you will see the difference. The machine metal in Shopsmith doesn t contain as much chromium and has more carbon content. Chromium causes the shine in the steel, also making the surface less abrasive. Shopsmith steel is black and has less chromium and more carbon. The surface is abrasive, thus the set screw can dig into the metal, giving it a lock-washer effect. Less chance for the set screw to come loose. When you have a collet system you will have more chromium otherwise the collet will freeze up.
> 
> - JethrowClampett


Jethrow, again thanks for your concern. but you need not worry. I['ve had Shopsmith equipment since 1980. In fact. I own more Shopsmith equipment than I'd care to admit. (I really should start selling the stuff off). And, I have both a Fox and Smithy Supershop.

The drill rod spindles I've made are more than adequate for for what I use them for, which is mostly turning. For heavier items I can always use the 6" 3-jaw chuck or 10" faceplate I have that screw onto the Smithy 2 1/4" threaded spindle.

I believe in your comments that you say the Shopsmith setscrew can dig into the Shopsmith spindle. If that's your view, it's exactly opposite of my experience. The setscrew leaves no mark in any Shopsmith spindle I've ever used; they're quite hard. It does dig into the drill rods, however.


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

Ted724 This is what a Shopsmith taper looks like. Quite different from yours. You can see where the set screw dug into the metal. Have a good weekend !


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Ted724 This is what a Shopsmith taper looks like. Quite different from yours. You can see where the set screw dug into the metal. Have a good weekend !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

> I also adapted a Shopsmith tool rest to fit into the vertical tube of the Supershop tool rest so that I could mount narrow tool rests on the Supershop. Bought a set of three tool rests from PennState Industries that fit using the included sleeve into the Shopsmith toolrest arm.


I'd like to hear more about this. I already have the MT2 extension for this purpose, but had not (yet) realized that I'd also need a smaller tool rest. What modifications did you have to make? Are all the Shopsmith tool rest arms the same? (i.e. if I pick up one off CL, do I need to look for something specific?)

TIA!


----------



## jeruedas (Oct 9, 2017)

A new belt did the job for my issue. It seems that the belt got stretched and was too long for the amount of space on the tighten lever to pull it to the right tension. Thanks to all.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> I also adapted a Shopsmith tool rest to fit into the vertical tube of the Supershop tool rest so that I could mount narrow tool rests on the Supershop. Bought a set of three tool rests from PennState Industries that fit using the included sleeve into the Shopsmith toolrest arm.
> 
> I d like to hear more about this. I already have the MT2 extension for this purpose, but had not (yet) realized that I d also need a smaller tool rest. What modifications did you have to make? Are all the Shopsmith tool rest arms the same? (i.e. if I pick up one off CL, do I need to look for something specific?)
> 
> ...


Whether you need a smaller toolrest or not depends on the length of what you're turning, as well as how close you can get the toolrest to the wood. I adapted the Shopsmith toolrest arm before I got the MT2 extension, so it's possible there's no need for the adaptation. You just have to see if the Supershop toolrest along with the extension allows you to turn whatever you're turning.

In any event, I had to machine a steel plug to fit into the top of the Supershop's vertical tube of the tool rest, with the other end sized to fit into the Shopsmith arm. 









Here's a look at the Shopsmith arm. It has two places to fit the plug I machined, but you only really need the one in the back. This is the later version of the Shopsmith toolrest arm. The earlier model only had one hole and would work just as well, although the second hole would come in handy if you were turning some larger diameter stuff.



















I just use this set-up for turning an occasional pen or in this case some bottle openers.









Here's how I have it set up for turning the bottle openers. I'm using the drill rod with tapered flat in a 5/8" R8 collet, then there is a Shopsmith drill chuck, and then there is a threaded mandrill with a couple of nuts that's made from a 3/8" bolt. The wood blank is threaded to accept the threaded mandrill 3/8" 16 TPI.









One thing I did notice about the Smithy toolrest is that the diameter of the shaft on the bottom of the toolrest itself is 26 millimeter, so it's an odd size for trying to find narrower toolrests. The Penn State Industries toolrest set I got have 5/8" diameter shafts, but come with a sleeve to fit into the Shopsmith 3/4" hole. That's why I adapted the Shopsmith arm. Also, the rack teeth on the vertical tube on the Smithy is different pitch than the one of the Fox.

On another topic, someone earlier asked about any differences in the Shopsmith and Smithy accessory tools. I only have the Smithy bandsaw and the major difference is that the Smithy uses a conventional method for tracking blades whereby you tilt the upper wheel to get the blade to track properly. The Smithy owners manual incorrectly states that tracking is automatic. The Shopsmith does have this automatic tracking (if you want to call it that) whereby a double bearing located near the tensioning mechanism is used to keep the blade from coming off the back of the upper wheel. There's a bearing below the table that helps in this regard.

The Smithy bandsaw was made in Taiwan, likely for one of the Shopsmith clones like the Total Shop. To fit into the Smithy Supershop, they added an adapter. The Shopsmith front cover is plastic, the Smithy is cast aluminum. The horizontal and vertical cutting capacities of the Smithy are a bit less than those on the Shopsmith. The miter gauge slots are different as well.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Merrill77-
Shopsmith tool rests come in 2 flavors primarily. The model 500 and model 505/510/520. The 505/510/520 has a longer arm because of the wider table down-tubes are farther apart than on the M500s. Both have the same sized shaft for mounting into the carriages.

For the Fox I recently aquired it was missing a bunch of stuff so I cut off a quill from a junk one I had. (I repair Shopsmith tools so seem to always have an abundance of lots of extra stuff). The end is 5/8" with the tapered flat, but behind that it went to 3/4" rod. What I noticed is the 5/8 part does not spin concentric so I suspect the 3/4" part is not in same concentric plane as the 5/8". It basically floats in the quill between the bearing and the spacer so I am looking for some good 5/8" shaft stuff to make some nice 5/8" shafts. Tedd724, where did you get your 5/8 material for the shafts you made?

I too have much Shopsmith stuff and just aquired a Fox SuperShop and last Friday picked up a Smithy SuperShop. The extra long lathe earlier in this post (Sammy Sosa lathe for coring baseball bats) I think I am going to sell cause I never use it for the length. It can turn just short of 7.5 feet in length. I am going to keep most of my Shopsmith stuff (mostly the minis I have set as saw & sanding stations) and replace with the SuperShops for lathe and drill press work. The Smithy also came with a 6" jointer and a bandsaw. I already have a WoodMaster 6" jointer and a Shopsmith & Total Shop bandsaw in the 11' range and monster 18" Laguna. I need to start purging stuff.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Merrill77-
> Shopsmith tool rests come in 2 flavors primarily. The model 500 and model 505/510/520. The 505/510/520 has a longer arm because of the wider table down-tubes are farther apart than on the M500s. Both have the same sized shaft for mounting into the carriages.
> 
> For the Fox I recently aquired it was missing a bunch of stuff so I cut off a quill from a junk one I had. (I repair Shopsmith tools so seem to always have an abundance of lots of extra stuff). The end is 5/8" with the tapered flat, but behind that it went to 3/4" rod. What I noticed is the 5/8 part does not spin concentric so I suspect the 3/4" part is not in same concentric plane as the 5/8". It basically floats in the quill between the bearing and the spacer so I am looking for some good 5/8" shaft stuff to make some nice 5/8" shafts. Tedd724, where did you get your 5/8 material for the shafts you made?
> ...


Dan, I got the drill rod from Enco, but they're no longer in business. MSCdirect.com took over for them. Or you can get it from most metal suppliers or ebay. I believe it's O-1 drill rod. It came a hair over 5/8" so it was necessary to "polish" the Shopsmith end with some emery cloth/sandpaper to get a perfect size for the Shopsmith stuff. Just spin it on the Supershop while applying the emery cloth. The other end fit easily into the R8 collet without polishing. It generally comes annealed, as mine did, so it's easy to work, but some is hardened which should be mentioned in the description.


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

Well, I still haven't been able to get the left-hand quill-extension handwheel removed from my SuperShop. It is a 15/16" nut with only 1 7/32" clearance around it. The thin-wall socket that I have is nearly 1 17/64" in diameter - making it nearly a full 1/16" too wide. The wall of the socket is only 3/32" thick at the corners.










Other than turning the socket down on a lathe (which seems unlikely, given the composition), I don't now what else I can try. Any ideas how to get this off?


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Well, I still haven t been able to get the left-hand quill-extension handwheel removed from my SuperShop. It is a 15/16" nut with only 1 7/32" clearance around it. The thin-wall socket that I have is nearly 1 17/64" in diameter - making it nearly a full 1/16" too wide. The wall of the socket is only 3/32" thick at the corners.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perhaps you could make a plumber's socket work. I know there's a double ended one that is 29/32" and 31/32" on the two ends and they have a thin wall.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Well, I still haven t been able to get the left-hand quill-extension handwheel removed from my SuperShop. It is a 15/16" nut with only 1 7/32" clearance around it. The thin-wall socket that I have is nearly 1 17/64" in diameter - making it nearly a full 1/16" too wide. The wall of the socket is only 3/32" thick at the corners.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't both checking that plumbing socket. I found mine and doesn't fit. The 29/32" end fits inside the hole in the handwheel, but doesn't fit over the nut. The other end is too large to fit in the hole.

If you had the 29/32" you might be able to open it up with a file and dremel, but it'd probably be easier to grind a regular socket to fit.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I had a Craftsman socket set and it fit with no trouble. Not a special thin wall either. I have a Fox Supershop, though.

The ring is aluminum and rather soft so a hole saw will easily cut it. Take an appropriately sized saw and cut a hole in a 2×4. Then center and clamp that over the ring as a guide. Then you can enlarge the hole easily (gently) to fit the socket.

A small hammer and a cold chisel might back it out easily, too.

A grinder will thin a socket with little effort.

DanK


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

@Dan - yours must be different…there is no socket that is going to fit into this. Note that on the right side, the shaft and nut are smaller - no problem with a socket getting in on that side.

@Ted - I picked up that plumbing wrench and I'm going to try to modify it to fit.


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

@Ted - The plumbing wrench was easily modified and worked great. I cut relief splits at the corners and chamfered the inside edges. With a few light taps from a hammer, it slid right over the nut. Thanks for the idea - I'd never seen those before.


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

Today I set out to determine why the quill lock and depth gauge wheels didn't work as I expected.

I started with the depth gauge wheel (right side). I noticed that there is zero clearance between the wheel and the powerhead housing, and so the wheel rubs against the housing…lots of resistance, even though that surface was greased.










After taking it apart and grokking the intended design, I determined that a washer would pull that wheel away from the housing and still leave enough clearance for the handwheel to be installed tightly and the depth adjustment lock to function as expected.










Next, I examined the quill lock (left side). When I removed the handwheel nut (see previous post), I found that someone had used teflon tape to secure the nut, but had not fully tightened the nut down. When I tightened it properly, it jammed the quill lock wheel. I could see that there was a shoulder on the shaft that the handwheel *should* have tightened against…but it could not because the shaft was not long enough (or the quill lock wheel was too wide). Grinding down the quill lock wheel was easy - just took about 1/8" off the inner flange of the wheel.










Now, the shoulder for the quill travel handwheel stands proud of the quill lock wheel, allowing the handwheel to be tightened fully and the quill lock wheel still works.










AFAICT, these two functions never worked correctly from the factory (or else somebody took it apart and screwed it up somehow). But now I think they are both working as intended.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Good recovery, merrill77! And Ted had a neat idea. I'll forget where it came from but I'll remember the idea for future!

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

SO I now have a Fox and a Smithy Supershop! I call them "The Brothers". I am finding out the subtle (and not-so-subtle) differences. !









I plan to use one primarily for metal (so need some metal working chuck & tools), and other primarily for wood, but can do both on either.
I have a standalone Shopsmith drill press and the Sammy Sosa lathe I plan to decommission and sell.

One question I still have for Fox SuperShop- it has 10 sline upper drive PTO and Smithy has 8 spline. I have PTO drive hub for Smithy but looking for 10 spline for Fox. Anyone know where one might be hiding or who might be able to make/print one?


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Here is a picture of my setup using a Shopsmith PTO connector on Shopsmith drivers, one end is four spline and the other 5. My 10 spline Fox connector hardened and shattered after a few years, so I never pursued getting another. I drilled a piece of 1" rod and threaded the ID to match the FOX PTO and turned a stub (5/8" I think) to match the Shopsmith driver hub. It is a good idea to drill and insert the cross pin because the threads are RH and will spin the connector loose otherwise. Note that I have an adapter bracket to hold the bandsaw. 









DanK


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

> - DantheToolman


Dan, I see you have the band saw is hooked up to the Shop Fox main drive. I have the Super Shop, Always thought the auxiliary power drive in the rear is where one is to hook up the add on options ? Do you use the auxiliary power drive on the Super Shop ? If so, do you have a picture of the coupler (metal) that fits on the auxiliary drive ? I'm having problems figuring this issue out.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> - DantheToolman
> 
> Dan, I see you have the band saw is hooked up to the Shop Fox main drive. I have the Super Shop, Always thought the auxiliary power drive in the rear is where one is to hook up the add on options ? Do you use the auxiliary power drive on the Super Shop ? If so, do you have a picture of the coupler (metal) that fits on the auxiliary drive ? I m having problems figuring this issue out.
> 
> - JethrowClampett


My Shop Fox has reverse so I can run tools off the quill by running it in reverse so direction is correct. I have a metal PTO hub for lower PTO on other end that will work for a jointer. I also have a plastic hub with 8 splines for Smithy upper left PTO to drive just about any other Shopsmith like accessory to left of headstock like Shopsmith does. The jigsaw & belt sander can be run off quill end in normal rotation- belt sander needs drive hub on aux spindle to keep direction correct. 
Here are pics of the drive hubs I have. 












































The first 2 pics are the lower drive for jointer. The next 2 are 8 spline upper drive hub for Smithy. The last is the 8 spline hub next to the 10 spline Fox upper spindle. I am looking for a 10 spline and will figure out a way to make or have one made. The 8 spline came with the Smithy I just bought. 
Let me know if you have more questions or want more pictures.

I repair Shopsmiths for over 17 years now and think I can add both SuperShop repair to my portfolio as well. I also do other brands and am looking at becoming a Jet/Powermatic ASC (Authorized Service Center) here in TN south of Knoxville.


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

Dan the Tool Man - thank you very much, I have that fitting that goes over the take-out. What I found odd was the take-out has a split down the middle and is threaded. So I put the cotter pin in the fitting and slid it on the take out, the pin fits between the split on the take-out. Not a great fit, it just rests there. I don't know if that makes cense ? Or am I missing a component ? It just seems like a loose fit.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

The pin doesn't have to be a tight fit. It simply keeps the PTO and the driver knob from coming apart unexpectedly. I've never seen the upper spindle used to drive accessories like band saw etc. I can see why you want the splined drive now. That's a pretty special adapter.

I don't know when Supershops started being shipped with reverse capabilities, but it wasn't early on. It had to be near the end of Tony Fox's productions. I remember him being very cautious about it because he was afraid a user would fail to check everything, especially the shaper setup. Reverse could easily spin the cutter off unless a special shaper cutter holder was used.

There were about a dozen 3 wheel bandsaw prototypes that I was aware of and would dearly love to get my hands on one. They had the same table as the saw so the fence and miter gauges would work. There was an enormous open span, maybe 24" or more, and about a 10" resaw capacity. He wasn't ready to sell them when I had the money, so I lost out.

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> Dan the Tool Man - thank you very much, I have that fitting that goes over the take-out. What I found odd was the take-out has a split down the middle and is threaded. So I put the cotter pin in the fitting and slid it on the take out, the pin fits between the split on the take-out. Not a great fit, it just rests there. I don t know if that makes cense ? Or am I missing a component ? It just seems like a loose fit.
> 
> - JethrowClampett


Jethrow, Can you post pictures of the fitting with the cotter pin and threads? I would like to see what it looks like as it might give me an idea how to make something to fit the 10 spline Fox upper spindle. 
Dan K- Yes Shopsmith uses that upper adapter to drive most of the accessories. I have cut Shopsmiths in half to run several accessories. I call them Mini Mark Vs- I run 2 in my shop. One has bandsaw & jigsaw and is saw station. Other has belt sander and disk or strip sander and is sanding station. They are extremely handy. I have a stand alone drill press made as a mini with 1 foot short base bars but am going to decommission it now I have a much more effective drill press (2 actually!). WHat I want the 2nd bandsaw for is cutting etal. The SuperShops can go slow enough I can put a metal cutting blade in and use that to fabricate metal items. I already have a small but very effective horizontal bandsaw and this would expand my abilities to fabricate metal things and easier (and safer) to cut many things on a horizontal table.

BTW DanK- I was going to stop by on my way back home but my #2 daughter has had a very difficult pregnancy and was put into the hospital yet again so I bi-passed the visit this time. The good news is my 2nd grandbaby and first grand daughter was born yesterday morning a month early but is now out safe and baby is doing great and mother is getting better. I will plan a stop on a future trip. We are in IL 2-3 times/year usually.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Congratulations, Dan. It's good to keep priorities straight! Glad all is well with mom and grandbaby.

We don't travel much, so it should be easy to find us home on another trip. We'll look forward to it.

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> Here is a picture of my setup using a Shopsmith PTO connector on Shopsmith drivers, one end is four spline and the other 5. My 10 spline Fox connector hardened and shattered after a few years, so I never pursued getting another. I drilled a piece of 1" rod and threaded the ID to match the FOX PTO and turned a stub (5/8" I think) to match the Shopsmith driver hub. It is a good idea to drill and insert the cross pin because the threads are RH and will spin the connector loose otherwise. Note that I have an adapter bracket to hold the bandsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Sure. It'll be Saturday before I can.

The only part that isn't stock is the simple adapter from the threaded/slotted PTO on the headstock to the 5/8" stub needed for the 5 spline Shopsmith driver.

DanK


----------



## Scooterfb (May 15, 2019)

Hey Dan was just given a super shop in exllent shape with all the goodies just one thing , hit the power and motor smokes something fierce, I'd be ok with it if it were a diesel powered super shop. Have found controlers and new motor here is the biggie with your experience any place where motors might be under 600 ? Also again with your experience any guess as to which is more likely to take a powder motor or controler? or both. Any help would be greatly appreciated I dont want this to go the way of yard art.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Scooter, are you saying the motor is fried? If not, did it spin? Is there pecrhance a foreign substance on the motor? And since some of these were wired for 220V input, check to be sure your input voltage is correct.



> Also again with your experience any guess as to which is more likely to take a powder motor or controler? or both. Any help would be greatly appreciated I dont want this to go the way of yard art.
> - Scooterfb


I've never used a powder motor or controller. :0 What do you mean?

Check the motor plate for mfr and contact them. You might get useful information at least.

No, we can't let this get to be yard art. Where are you located?

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

When Scooterfb said "take a powder" I think he's asking which might be the problem, the motor or the controller, but it certainly isn't clear.



> Scooter, are you saying the motor is fried? If not, did it spin? Is there pecrhance a foreign substance on the motor? And since some of these were wired for 220V input, check to be sure your input voltage is correct.
> 
> Also again with your experience any guess as to which is more likely to take a powder motor or controler? or both. Any help would be greatly appreciated I dont want this to go the way of yard art.
> - Scooterfb
> ...


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Ha Ha HA! "Take a powder"! Hadn't heard that British expression in years. Didn't register without the comma.
Thanks, Ted.

The motor is pretty resilient usually. The original controllers are sensitive to line spikes and similar events. I've never seen a controller smoke a motor, though. Has it been tampered with somehow? If someone bypassed the controller and applied 120V AC power to a 90V DC motor, it could smoke it. It wouldn't be instantly, though.

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

If you disconnect the wires from the controller to the motor, and the motor is still working, you likely can get the motor to spin by connecting it to a 12 volt car battery. While you're at it, you could use a volt/ohm meter to check if you're getting DC voltage out of the controller. Harbor Freight occasionally gives those meters away for free with the right coupon along with a purchase.

Which SuperShop do you have, a Fox or a Smithy? If the latter, Smithy may be able to help as I've heard the motor and controller are the same that they use in one of their metal-working combination machines.



> Hey Dan was just given a super shop in exllent shape with all the goodies just one thing , hit the power and motor smokes something fierce, I d be ok with it if it were a diesel powered super shop. Have found controlers and new motor here is the biggie with your experience any place where motors might be under 600 ? Also again with your experience any guess as to which is more likely to take a powder motor or controler? or both. Any help would be greatly appreciated I dont want this to go the way of yard art.
> 
> - Scooterfb


----------



## Scooterfb (May 15, 2019)

I have no idea which shop it is, can't find any manufactures plate on it. No info on who made motor just 1.5 hp 7.5amp.no makers name on it. 147 volts dc on the board.does not go up or down with speed control.motor is toast no drought there. I at one time years ago was a fighter taking a powder is quiting Sorry I wasn't clear on that.


----------



## Scooterfb (May 15, 2019)

All info on motor dc motor 1.5 hp 0.82 rateing dc180 volt 7.5 amp 2800rpm #2004 no manufactures name. I'm In northern california


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Without an identification on the headstock, it's probably the model sold by Harbor Freight and that likely is identical to the one sold by Smithy. Here's a link to the owners manual for the Harbor Freight machine-https://images.harborfreight.com/manuals/96000-96999/96067.pdf If you do a google search on "Smithy Supershop manual" you'll find the Smithy manual which is more detailed than the Harbor Freight one.

You could try calling Harbor Freight customer service about a motor or controller.

Or, you might be able to get them from Smithy.

Another possibility is to take the motor to a motor repair shop and get a quote on fixing. I'd have the controller tested as well, if as you say the voltage doesn't vary when adjusting the speed control knob.



> I have no idea which shop it is, can t find any manufactures plate on it. No info on who made motor just 1.5 hp 7.5amp.no makers name on it. 147 volts dc on the board.does not go up or down with speed control.motor is toast no drought there. I at one time years ago was a fighter taking a powder is quiting Sorry I wasn t clear on that.
> 
> - Scooterfb


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

I have no idea which shop it is, can t find any manufactures plate on it. No info on who made motor just 1.5 hp 7.5amp.no makers name on it. 147 volts dc on the board.does not go up or down with speed control.motor is toast no drought there. I at one time years ago was a fighter taking a powder is quiting Sorry I wasn t clear on that.
- Scooterfb

Can you post a picture of the machine? That would help ID which variant it is. The name plate is easiest if Fox or Smithy cause there is a fox head silhouette in the O in Shop on name plate for Fox. Smithy just says SuperShop and has partial saw blade teeth.








Here are what I call Da-Brothers! Fox is in rear Smithy in front.
As for which would be more likely to fail, controller board is more likely. But as Ted mentioned, connecting a car battery to the motor should tell what happens. Polarity is important but should turn either way. My Fox has a reverse switch. If it smokes with battery then that is BAD. 
Make sure you know what input should be. The thing could be wired for 220 VAC. If that is true, the plug should be different and not be able to be plugged into 120 VAC socket. These are old enough to NOT auto-detect input voltage. The SHopsmith Mark 7 Power Pro headstock does auto-detect input power.
If you need to get parts and find a source, please let us (me) know. I am collecting a repository of Super SHop information. I repair SHopsmith tools and am thinking about adding SuperShops to them as well in addition to possibly becoming an authorized service center for Jet & Powermatic around Knoxville area.


----------



## Scooterfb (May 15, 2019)

THANKS guys with all the info given I have figured out its a Smithy and motor is cooked, I have found many Dart brand controllers, so course of action is clear new motor and control . Found lots of motors In ebay under motor controls as a combo used. The supershop was free so I think I'll go with new motor and control , can't wait to use this beast.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Scooterfb- So did you get a new controller & motor and if yes, where did you purchase? Also approximate cost if you care to share? Is unit now working for you? I have been using "The Brothers" quite a bit lately and appreciate their functionality- especially as a drill press. I did put a gouge to some mahogany turning the other day too but not enough time to do anything and was just a scrap mounted to face plate. ;+D an


----------



## charliebrown (Feb 11, 2014)

I have never posted here before, I don't think, but thought someone might be interested. There is a new Super Shop for sale on the Albany NY Craigslist, located in Cooperstown NY. He is asking $3000, which is a crazy price.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> I have never posted here before, I don't think, but thought someone might be interested. There is a new Super Shop for sale on the Albany NY Craigslist, located in Cooperstown NY. He is asking $3000, which is a crazy price.
> 
> - charliebrown


While it looks "pretty", $3000 is insane! A friend just purchased a never used Smithy with almost all accessory tools at a Habitat Restore shop for MUCH less. This one only has the jointer- and some nice metal working accessories but the chuck & vise are available on the open market. Good Luck with that sale! WOW is all I can say and guy has not checked the used market to get a good value estimation. Even at $1000 he would be a bit on the high side. And it does not look like it has the motorized carriage option either like the Fox seems to have as standard. Just WOW! In my (humble) opinion for a buyer that wanted this machine, $7-900 would be a better range for this sale.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Yes, $3000 for any Supershop nowadays is exceedingly optimistic at best, especially if it is not the original Fox Supershop, which did have the carriage feed standard.

DanK


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, these machines are pretty durable - if a lightly used machine has been cared for *at all*, it is about as good as new. I purchased one a few months back with barely a scratch on it and more accessories, for ~1/10th of this price (minus the vices). The guy told me he'd used it a lot, but if it was clean you could not tell it from new. This seller is dreaming. There is no collectors market for these and virtually nobody has ever heard of them. As much as I love mine, but they just don't have much market value (I'm happy to keep it that way!).


----------



## HandymanScott (Jun 29, 2019)

I was recently given a Smithy Super Shop which was bought new in the mid 90's. It came with everything except for the collets. Of course I cannot do anything without them. Anyone know where I can get access to them?


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

It is a standardized part - so you can get them anywhere R8 collets are sold. Online, machine shops, etc. R8 collets can hold a variety of sizes - you probably want a 3/4". My drill chuck and other accessories are all 3/4" - but you'll want to check your accessories to see what size they are. My SS also came with 1/2" and 1/4" collets…presumably for spinning router bits.


----------



## HandymanScott (Jun 29, 2019)

Ok, so I have located the collets that are needed now it looks like all I need is the draw rod. I am finding this to be much more difficult to find. Smithy said I was screwed. I have called all the affiliates and searched high and low. Any ideas on that specific part?


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Congratulations on the bonanza, Handyman.

A draw bar is super easy to make. It's nothing more than a rod with 7/16" coarse threads on the collet end and a handle on the other end. You could even use all thread to make one. There's nothing speciail about them.

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Fox SuperShop on E-Bay for $250 Buy it now. Item is located in Machesney Park, Illinois. Item number is 383025328343. It looks to be in rough shape, but it's only $250.


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

I get item # not found  Maybe someone already bought it…though usually completed auctions are still searchable.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Uh-OH!
I just bought my 3rd SuperShop! BUT I AM NOT AN ADDICT!
ok maybe. 
Yeah dat twas me dat dun da-deed!
Too good to pass up. This one is a Fox with carriage motor. I will set the 2 Fox machines side by side-1 primarily wood and other for metal- then use Smithy as drill press but make a short stout base (and fasten to wall) so the base does not suck up valuable floor space. I have been purging some of my Shopsmith tools (and other stuff I have not used). My current sales are listed on Craigslist Knoxville. Type in Shopsmith to see the ads. I am selling the "Sammy Sosa" double length Shopsmith in a slightly different configuration -more useful overall. A standalone drill press and a Shopsmith DIY PowerPro headstock complete with headstock housing and motor pan and belt cover. Also a planer and couple jointers- 1-6" and 1-4". I have other stuff but not listed cause it takes time to get good pictures and write it up etc.
But I and not addicted. I just like how these work! ;+D an (-the-Toolman)


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> I get item # not found  Maybe someone already bought it…though usually completed auctions are still searchable.
> 
> - merrill77


The item sold and it looks like it went for less than the $250. Look for "supershop" under completed auctions. It says best offer accepted.

Dan, did you drive up to Machesney Park, Illinois to pick up your third SuperShop?


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> I get item # not found  Maybe someone already bought it…though usually completed auctions are still searchable.
> 
> - merrill77
> 
> ...


I offered $240 and was accepted right away. I did not want to take a chance on loosing it. I lived about an hour from there and have (very good) friends that are going to pick it up and keep it until my next trip in Fall. Once they realize how heavy this is I will get cussed at, but like I said good friends. ;+D an


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

Hi all. GordoB here from TX. Just signed up to join this discussion. I got my Super Shop from my dad last year, but just got it set up. Has all the accessories. I'll likely use the band saw and drill press, but mostly the lathe. I haven't turned since high school, and I'm wanting to get into it now.

Question on Chucks: I have read the whole conversation, but as a newb I am a little confused. I want to get into bowls, so I need a big wood chuck. From what I can find, There are no chucks that match the 2-1/4×8 spindle threads. I didn't follow all the discussion on making adapters, and I don't really want to reinvent the wheel. What I have found is an R8 to MT2 adapter, and an MT2 with 1"x 8 TPI that I could mount a standard chuck on. What are the ramifications of this solution?

Alternately, I do have a 3 jaw metal chuck. I thought I could use the back plate from that (which has the 2-1/4×8 spindle threads) and get a machine shop to mate it with a Nova or Grizzly jaw. Better Idea?

Anyway, thanks for all the previous posts, I've learned a lot. I've been a wood working guy my whole life, mostly cabinets and suck, and a lot of plywood boats. I'm looking forward to learning the turning craft.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

GordoB, welcome to the discussion.

My experience has been challenged to mate a Nova chuck to the Supershop spindle. I tried their adapters like you are contemplating and found three serious problems.
1. MT adapter from the Nova is short. It comes loose under the tremendous load of a big blank, partly because of the leverage of the large diameter causing it to twist and loosen. I could not get it to stay reliably, even with the machinist trick of bluing the match to see what rubs and what doesn't fit right on the taper. The fit was as tight as could be made and you could beat it in with a 12 lb maul, and it would still come loose. 
2. I had runout problems with tandem adapters like that. Each one amplifies the previous. Maybe you can get lucky and fiddle until one cancels the other, but…
3. The stacked adapters move the chuck far away from the much needed support of the spindle.

What I ended up doing was taking the setup to a machinist friend and had him make a custom R-8 adapter that would thread directly into the back of the Nova without any other adapters. If you don't have a machinist friend, it could get pricey, so get a quote…not an estimate.

These machines are supposed to swing 17", but that's over the ways, not the carriage holding the tool rest. I broke the cast aluminum tool rest turning a bowl because the pressure is tremendous. I spent the money to get a Delta banjo rest and adapted it to fit the T slots in the carriage. Works like a charm. You will have to use the low speed range of the 3 pulley belt system because the motor won't sustain the RPM on any other setting. 900 RPM is pretty fast for a huge bowl anyway.

I've wondered about ourboard turning from the headstock, but never tried it.

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Congratulations on your SuperShop, GordoB.

If slippage of the MT-2 adapter inside the R8 adapter is a concern, it may be possible to cross drill the combination and then insert a roll pin or perhaps tack weld the two adapters together. It may be worth a try given the price of custom machining work.

In any event, if you're planning to turn some *small* items between centers, you may want an MT-2 to MT-2 extension for the tailstock given the width of the carriage. A live center for the tailstock also is useful if you don't have one.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Welcm to the foray GordoB! I cannot add more value to the main question than DanK & Ted724. I can however add some other information. Many Shopsmith parts fit directly or with some modification to the SuperShop. The live center Ted724 mentioned is one and very useful. Both SuperShop & Shopsmith have a Morse #2 taper in the tailstock. The live center and drill chuck mount are 2 options that are quite useful and parts are plentiful still. I repair Shopsmith tools and have a nice stock of both. If you have a 5/8' shaft, all the Shopsmith accessories can fit the quill of the SuperShop. I made one by sacrificing an old style quill from a dead Shopsmith and used that for a bit until I bought my 2nd SuperShop that had a drill chuck (3/4" into the R-8 collet). I also found it was a little bent so will need to get or make another that is straight, but for what I was drilling it was not critical. I find the SuperShop surpasses the Shopsmith for drilling and lathe just because of the slower speeds. I just replaced the belts with Kevlar ones and it smoothed out some things but eventually I will need to replace bearings- especially in the Smithy because I can hear them grinding a little. Enjoy your new toy and BE SAFE! Any questions, post here and we will do our best to answer or gives options and opinions.


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

Thanks so much guys. Live center will be here Thursday, along with a robust tool rest. Geeeshe that AL tool rest sucks!. And the MT2 extension for the tailstock will be here next week.

So Dan, no problems with the R8 to 1" 8TPI adapter? That was another thought I had. IDK who I would get to make it. Also, could you expand on the tool rest? I see the limitations of the SS design, I'd like to have a simple banjo setup? Even just a couple closeup pics would be awesome.

Now I've never held a wood chuck in my hand. Do they have a back plate like a metal chuck? There are plenty of generic 2 1/4 8TPI backplates available, if I had a wood chuck that had a backplate that could be removed, I could match a new plate to it.

Alas I hate that I have this cool machine, and the main thing I want to do is an issue because it's too robust!


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

GordoB, This is a Delta lathe banjo like what I have. The nut on the underside needs to be changed to fit the T-slots on the carriage, but otherwise it is plug and play.

All my adapter problems went away with this custom adapter. Wood chucks do not normally have back plates like metal chucks, just threaded female. Nova's threads are "spayshal" so they fit nothing without an adapter. So the threads on the R-8 were cut to fit the chuck with no other adapter.

If you have all the stuff the machine was shipped with, you should have a face plate. Actually two of them because the sanding disk is made with a face plate in it. Just unscrew it. Face plates will do just about everything a chuck will do only not so quickly, and some things a chuck can only dream of doing. A large bowl blank can be secured directly to the face plate with screws. You may need more than the standard 4 pattern so drill more holes. An old turners trick (that can be used by young turners  is to place a newspaper sheet between a blank and a disposable wood backing that gets screwed to the face plate. This has limitations with large diameters on a small foot, but if the foot (back plate) contact is at least half the finished OD it should be OK. When done, split the newspaper with a sharp knife to release the turning from the backing.

The unit should have come with one drive spur for the lathe, so spindles can be done. It's a biggie, so I generally band saw a couple shallow slots in the spur end of a blank using a V block. That will find the center where you should drill a 1/4" hole about 1/2" deep for the giant spur center. This arrangement is very strong….will split the spindle before spinning out.

Did the unit not come with a tool rest? I don't understand what you bought, I guess.

Peace out.

DanK


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

> I repair Shopsmith tools and have a nice stock of both. If you have a 5/8 shaft, all the Shopsmith accessories can fit the quill of the SuperShop. I made one by sacrificing an old style quill from a dead Shopsmith and used that for a bit until I bought my 2nd SuperShop that had a drill chuck (3/4" into the R-8 collet).
> 
> - Dan
> 
> ...


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

> Did the unit not come with a tool rest? I don t understand what you bought, I guess.


Thanks Dan. Yeah, it came with the stock tool rest. It's rough, and AL, so dents with every catch. Just not smooth. I have a new one arriving tomorrow.

I'll just go for the R8 adapter. I just want to use the spindle threads since that's the best case, but I'm good if I can find a machinist.

Thanks Jethrow. I had seen that, but looking for minimum #of connections to remove concerns of runnout as Dan has mentioned. Since I don't already have Shopsmith stuff, no sense in starting there.

OK, so I'm looking at Grizzly chucks. Decent? I'll just get someone to make a 1" 8TPI thread on an R8 shaft.


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

BTW Dan, TY for the spindle drive spur recommendations. I've spun out 2 already in Walnut. I've been looking at options.


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

I found a R8 to 7/8" 20 thread. Getting that milled to a 3/4" 16 thread is doable. Time to find a machinist

https://www.prolinemax.com/R8-Shank-78-20-Thread-Threading-Boring-Head-Taper-Threaded-Mount_p_3293.html

OR there is this:
https://www.prolinemax.com/R8-Shank-1-12-18-Thread-Threading-Boring-Head-Taper-Threaded-Mount_p_3294.html

Do you think there's enough thread length to cut 1" 8 threads for standard chucks? IDK how long the average spindle is.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Remember that it's not just threads that need to be matched up. There is a centering taper that must match much closer than the threads. It is best to have mating parts at the machinist so he can verify the fit.

And, you can put a drill rod along the top of the soft tool rest. A couple countersunk bolts will hold it. I also grind the sharp edges of my lathe tools round so they handle more consistently and don't ding up the tool rest so badly.

Jethrow, the 5/8" shaft can be as simple as a rod you buy from the hardware store, or even a 5/8" bolt with the head and threads cut off will give you the piece you need. A file will put a set screw flat (or taper=preferred) on it.

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Dan - so if I have a R-8 5/8" collet, I can take a Shopsmith shaft, cut to length to clear the carriage and figure in the arbor lengths, and use all of the Shopsmith accessories and arbors ? If so who sells just the shaft ? Price ?
Jethrow
Yes, this is correct- or at least most of the accessories will fit. No I know sells a particular shaft, but would be easy to make. I ended up sacrificing an old "greenie" quill. Anything 5/8" should fit on it. My Fox has a switch to go in reverse and I have driven accessories (like bandsaw) from quill end because they now spin in correct direction.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> I repair Shopsmith tools and have a nice stock of both. If you have a 5/8 shaft, all the Shopsmith accessories can fit the quill of the SuperShop. I made one by sacrificing an old style quill from a dead Shopsmith and used that for a bit until I bought my 2nd SuperShop that had a drill chuck (3/4" into the R-8 collet).
> 
> - Dan
> 
> ...


Jethrow, I posted a number of photos of how I did this back on the second page of this thread. I simply used 5/8" drill rod. Take note that Shopsmith uses what they call a "reverse taper" on this shaft. *It's necessary!* It's there to keep the accessory on the shaft should the set screw loosen a bit. Also take note that drill rod is not hardened metal like the Shopsmith shaft. Ebay is the likely place to find a Shopsmith quill/shaft.


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

I think you guys have convinced me to go the "Shopsmith" route to mount a chuck. I know there are thousands of Shopsmiths around, but it feels funny counting on that little set screw for the whole shooting match! I know I'm paranoid.

Opinions on chuck brands? It won't see massive use, looking at Grizzly, Nova, Oneway. Any cheaper off-brands worth it? Oneway looks to be the standard, but pricey. But I guess buy once, cry once.

Anyway, thanks for the great discussion gents. As you all know there is precious little info available for these things. Which I didn't know when I got it from my dad. It's got more shop dings than wear, I suspect I'll be using it for a long time. So far I've used the lathe and drill press, but I'm planning a project for the band saw and jointer next week.

If anyone has any other tips on maintenance I'm all ears.


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

GordonB I wouldn't recommend the Shopsmith in expanding to woodturning. If your doing extensive woodturning or turning big bowls I would recommend a Powermatic or Robust. Otherwise your money would be better spent on having a machinist make the necessary collet driven parts to hook up a Nova, make 4" and 6" faceplates. The Shopsmith is a decent spindle maker, but is 1/2 the weight of the Supershop. I can't imagine that would cost you more $300 for machining. In fact I will have what I suggested done and post in the near future with my cost.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> I think you guys have convinced me to go the "Shopsmith" route to mount a chuck. I know there are thousands of Shopsmiths around, but it feels funny counting on that little set screw for the whole shooting match! I know I m paranoid.
> 
> Opinions on chuck brands? It won t see massive use, looking at Grizzly, Nova, Oneway. Any cheaper off-brands worth it? Oneway looks to be the standard, but pricey. But I guess buy once, cry once.
> 
> ...


If you go the Shopsmith route as you say, I can't stress enough the "tapered flat" on the Shopsmith spindle. *It's a must.* One also needs to ensure that the setscrew fits snugly into the arbor of the accessory being attached to the spindle. A sloppy fitting setscrew could lead to a disaster!

I don't know if there's a best chuck out there, but I have a couple of Nova chucks and have never had an issue with them. You need an adapter to mount one of these chucks on a Shopsmith spindle. Either the "F" or the "S" adpater work. Both fit the Shopsmith spindle, but the "S" is the newer version and the preferred one.


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

> GordonB I wouldn t recommend the Shopsmith in expanding to woodturning.


Sorry I wasn't clear. By using quotes: "Shopsmith" in describing my plan, I meant the Shopsmith mod, as in 5/8" shaft modified with a "tapered flat" in an R8 collet.

Ted, Thank you. I do hear you and understand, and GREAT pictures earlier in case I didn't.

I have seen a few Shopsmith accessories with 2 setscrews. But I cannot find a spindle adapter that way. Anyone seen one? Mostly thinking Shopsmith to 1" 8TPI as that seems to be the most common out there with the most options. Any downside to either adding another setscrew…or for that matter drilling the shaft to give even better bite? IDK, just wanting more security. Probably overkill.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> I think you guys have convinced me to go the "Shopsmith" route to mount a chuck. I know there are thousands of Shopsmiths around, but it feels funny counting on that little set screw for the whole shooting match! I know I m paranoid.
> 
> Opinions on chuck brands? It won t see massive use, looking at Grizzly, Nova, Oneway. Any cheaper off-brands worth it? Oneway looks to be the standard, but pricey. But I guess buy once, cry once.
> 
> ...


If you go the Shopsmith route as you say, I can't stress enough the "tapered flat" on the Shopsmith spindle. *It's a must.* One also needs to ensure that the setscrew fits snugly into the arbor of the accessory being attached to the spindle. A sloppy fitting setscrew could lead to a disaster!

I don't know if there's a best chuck out there, but I have a couple of Nova chucks and have never had an issue with them. You need an adapter to mount one of these chucks on a Shopsmith spindle. Either the "F" or the "S" adpater. Both the Shopsmith spindle, but the "S" is the newer version and the preferred one.



> GordonB I wouldn t recommend the Shopsmith in expanding to woodturning.
> 
> Sorry I wasn t clear. By using quotes: "Shopsmith" in describing my plan, I meant the Shopsmith mod, as in 5/8" shaft modified with a "tapered flat" in an R8 collet.
> 
> ...


I've had and used Shopsmith equipment for almost 40 years and have never seen a Shopsmith-made accessory that uses two setscrews to attach something to the 5/8" Shopsmith spindle. And, I should add that I have most everyting made by Shopsmith. There's one setscrew that lines up with the Shopsmith "tapered flat'" on the spindle. One setscrew is sufficient.

Using the Shopsmith to 1" x 8 TPI adapter is fine if you get a chuck that has 1×8 threads without needing an adapter. There are a number of chucks like this that thread directly onto a 1×8 spindle. On the other hand, if the chuck you get requires an adapter to mount to a lathe (the typical Nova chuck) you'd need two adapters, one to get you from Shopsmith to 1×8 and a second to get from 1×8 to the threads on the chuck.


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

> I ve had and used Shopsmith equipment for almost 40 years and have never seen a Shopsmith-made accessory that uses two setscrews to attach something to the 5/8" Shopsmith spindle.












This is one I had saved in my amazon list. Not being a Shopsmith guy I just thought it looked "more secure".

https://www.amazon.com/Shopsmith-Spindle-Adapter-Threads-Smooth/dp/B07KD5285B/ref=pd_day0_hl_469_21?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07KD5285B&pd_rd_r=5b7e8320-e6c9-46d6-b693-0dcbb3cd4c94&pd_rd_w=K4UEl&pd_rd_wg=Qb5dn&pf_rd_p=ad07871c-e646-4161-82c7-5ed0d4c85b07&pf_rd_r=92MD84QMVPRJRT3XF8VW&psc=1&refRID=92MD84QMVPRJRT3XF8VW


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

GordonB, that's not a *Shopsmith-made* accessory; it may fit a Shopsmith spindle (as well as a 5/8" motor shaft as the ad says) but it's not something sold by Shopsmith. And, while it may look more secure, it's not as only one of those setscrews will land in the "tapered flat" of a Shopsmith spindle. Putting a setscrew onto a round shaft provides very little if any safety and won't keep an arbor on a round shaft very long.

Here's a photo of the Shopsmith-made 1/2" spindle (part # 555117) ==









While it doesn't show the setscrew, there's only one.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

While on the subject of Shopsmith accessories, I though it might be useful to show some of the items I'm using.










- the two items on the left are saw arbors. the left most one for saw blades with a 1 1/4" hole (the typical saw blades sold by Shopsmith). the other is for blades with a 5/8" hole.
- the third one from the left is a 5/8" arbor for a stacked dado set. Note that there is a groove through the threaded section. The washer (under the arbor) has a tang that fits into the groove as a safety feature to keep the nut from loosening.
- next is the lathe four prong drive center.
- next is the 1/2" arbor for shaper cutters (item #555117 I mentioned in an earlier post). It also has the safety groove and tanged washer.
- and last is the adapter for 1/2" router bits. Note there are three set screws, one to fasten it to the Shopsmith arbor and two to fasten the router bit into the adapter.










- the left most chuck is an independent 4-jaw chuck with a native female threat of 1" x 8 tpi for mounting to a lathe with that sized spindle. In front is an adapter from Penn State Industries that has a 5/8" smooth bore to 1" x 8 tpi threads for adapting this chuck to the Shopsmith spindle.
- the middle chuck is a older Nova that uses Tommy Bars for tightening the jaws. The native threads on the back of Nova chucks that use adapters is 1 1/2" x 8 tpi. So the chuck will fit lots of older metal lathes with similar threads on the spindle but you'd need a spacer on the metal lathe spindle between the lathe's registration face and the rear of the chuck. In front are the two 5/8" smooth bore adapters. The "F" model is nearest the chuck; the other if the "S" model and preferred one.
- the right most chuck is a Nova G3, The insert there is the "D" model that fits lathes with 1" x 8 tpi spindles.


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

Good stuff Ted. I have a G3 "Anniversary Edition" bundle on the way. "Dedicated" 1"x 8tpi, so no insert, reducing stacked adapters. Will be here Wednesday.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CT8N58V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Good stuff Ted. I have a G3 "Anniversary Edition" bundle on the way. "Dedicated" 1"x 8tpi, so no insert, reducing stacked adapters. Will be here Wednesday.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CT8N58V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> - GordoB


You'll like the G3; it's hard to beat for the money. While you don't need an insert to fix the chuck to the spindle, you do need an adapter to get from the chuck's 1×8tpi thread to a 5/8" Shopsmith spindle. So it's kind of a toss-up on that score. Either way, they work.


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

You ll like the G3; it s hard to beat for the money. While you don t need an insert to fix the chuck to the spindle, you do need an adapter to get from the chuck s 1×8tpi thread to a 5/8" Shopsmith spindle. So it s kind of a toss-up on that score. Either way, they work.

- Ted724
[/QUOTE]
But at least I'm not putting a 5/8 to 1×8 adapter, then a 1×8 insert.
If they have a dirrect shopsmith I didn't see it.

At least it's all coming from Amazon…if the R-8 to 5/8 shaft to 1" x 8 thread to G3….(whew I'm tired typing that!)....doesn't work…I'll send it back and use a faceplate lol.


----------



## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

Got the G3 for my Shopsmith a month ago and it works great. I do not know why I waited so long.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I guess I just don't understand. Why not an R-8 to 1×8TPI adapter straight up?

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> I guess I just don t understand. Why not an R-8 to 1×8TPI adapter straight up?
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Dan, is this an off-the-shelf item or something that has to be custom made? If available, where can I get one?

Thanks!


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Well, I guess memory is playing tricks on me again. I remember looking very long and hard to find an R8 to Nova native thread adapter, but was frustrated that the closest I could come was R8 to 1×8 tpi. Now I cannot find it again. I can find R8 to other common thread, but not 1"!!! I decided that since (at the time) I had access to a CNC machine that could make the required R8 with male thread to fit Nova native I would go that route. So I was very lucky.

Most machine shops now have CNC capability and likely already have the program for R8 specs. It's trivial to add a 1×8 TPI stub to that program, so they can be very cost competitive. It's worth getting a quote from a shop you trust.

Thank you for your patience with my bad memory. Age is catching up to me. i'll keep looking.

I've never made one before, but now I have the capability to do it manually. There has to be a centering cone somewhere and I don't have any specifications for that.

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Well, I guess memory is playing tricks on me again. I remember looking very long and hard to find an R8 to Nova native thread adapter, but was frustrated that the closest I could come was R8 to 1×8 tpi. Now I cannot find it again. I can find R8 to other common thread, but not 1"!!! I decided that since (at the time) I had access to a CNC machine that could make the required R8 with male thread to fit Nova native I would go that route. So I was very lucky.
> 
> Most machine shops now have CNC capability and likely already have the program for R8 specs. It s trivial to add a 1×8 TPI stub to that program, so they can be very cost competitive. It s worth getting a quote from a shop you trust.
> 
> ...


I've looked for one of those several times, but like you I haven't found one. What I did find was an R8 to 4JT (#4 Jacobs Taper) adapter that looks promising for machining the 4JT part into 1" x 8tpi threads. The 4JT taper runs from 1.1240" to 1.0372" and is 1.66" long, so there should be plenty of meat on the end to cut the threads. One is $16.77 on Ebay right now. Item number 303115796158


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I saw that and considered it. It would be trivial for a machinist to cut those 1" threads. I just don't know about the centering cone.

DanK


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

I too looked exhaustively for a direct R8 to 1" x 8tpi. I too found many other thread combos, but not that. I was considering the machinist idea, as you saw I posted some R8 adapters I thought could be machined. But once you mentioned the centering cone, I knew I wasn't qualified to explain what I needed, so at least I need it in my hands to bring to the shop.

I'll likely do that at some point soon, I do have a friend of a friend that is well respected. If he says "No problem" I'll ask about doing a short run, maybe 5. The $$$ is in the setup after all.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

I ordered one of those R8 to 4Jt adapters so I guess I'll find out if they can have the 4jt end threaded 1×8tpi. I'm not clear about what is meant by "centering cone," unless you're both referring to the tapered section on the R8 side of the adapter. As for machining, the draw bar end of the R8 is machined round and the 4jt end has been center drilled so it should be no problem mounting the adapter between centers or using a chuck and tailstock.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

The centering cone is a feature of all tooling that must run concentric to a center. For chucks, it is most often a tiny shoulder that looks like a casual chamfer, maybe up to 1/8" wide most often at the largest diameter of the mating surfaces. When the threads pull the tool up tight, the chamfer forces the tool to "center up". The action is similar to a MT "setting up" or a collet retracting into it's cone forcing it and the captured work piece to center up.

Before I learned about this feature many years ago, I just assumed that the threads would do the job, but if one is interested in close and consistent tolerance, threads just won't cut it. The moderns ISO standard for threads truncates the peak of the thread and the root of the thread. When mated, the peak does not meet the root. This means that the side wall of the thread can push the tooling off center at will. There has always been "slop" allowed for threads because they have to spin, and because of the pitch of the thread and any external forces, the mating can and most likely will go off center unless there is a centering feature involved.

That very feature is one of the things Tony Fox paid attention to when he designed the Supershop. As an engineer working for Shopsmith, he understood that the Shopsmith was inherently not accurate enough not strong enough for metal working. It's plenty good for woodworking, and has served many very well. I used a Shopsmith to get my woodworking to a commercial level. So when the Supershop came along, well, the rest is history. Tony wanted to capture both the hobbyist woodworker AND metal worker, and that was the rub that separated him from Shopsmith. Tony took me to an auto repair shop using his machine, an off the shelf Supershop, to mill motor heads. Impressed, I was.

DanK


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I meant to mention, that the reason I passed on the R8-4jt adapter is that there wasn't enough material for the native thread on the Nova chuck I was getting. Yours seems to be different and it looks to me like it will work for you.

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> The centering cone is a feature of all tooling that must run concentric to a center. For chucks, it is most often a tiny shoulder that looks like a casual chamfer, maybe up to 1/8" wide most often at the largest diameter of the mating surfaces. When the threads pull the tool up tight, the chamfer forces the tool to "center up". The action is similar to a MT "setting up" or a collet retracting into it s cone forcing it and the captured work piece to center up.
> 
> Before I learned about this feature many years ago, I just assumed that the threads would do the job, but if one is interested in close and consistent tolerance, threads just won t cut it. The moderns ISO standard for threads truncates the peak of the thread and the root of the thread. When mated, the peak does not meet the root. This means that the side wall of the thread can push the tooling off center at will. There has always been "slop" allowed for threads because they have to spin, and because of the pitch of the thread and any external forces, the mating can and most likely will go off center unless there is a centering feature involved.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info, Dan.

For the chucks I have, registration is accomplished by the flat on the back of the chuck mating with the shoulder of the lathe spindle. No cone at all. But, untill I get the adapter, I don't know if there's enough metal to create a wide enough shoulder. It may require the addition of a spacer of sorts to provide a registration surface. The adapter was only about $18 with tax so no big loss if it doesn't work.


----------



## cyeks (Jul 24, 2019)

Hello, I'm looking forward to joining the SuperShop owners group. I've made arrangements to purchase a Smithy SuperShop, but won't get to pick it up until next month. 
I am going to have to disassemble it a fair bit to get it into my basement workshop. In preparation for that, I've watched the Smithy videos linked earlier in this thread. They talk about using a face spanner wrench to tension up the torsion spring, and that this tension has to be relieved to remove the pivot base. 
Can anyone give me some measurements on this pin-style face spanner wrench? I know it's not included in the sale. Looking for the spacing between opposite holes (center-to-center) on the torsion spring hub and also the diameter of the actual holes so I can get an adjustable spanner with appropriate sized pins. If I have this ordered in advance, hopefully I'll be ready for unmounting the upper assembly from the base when I get the SuperShop.
On a related note, has anyone taken the carriage and headstock off of the way tubes? I'll need to do this to navigate my basement stairs. Any tricks to it or anything I should watch for? 
Thanks in advance for any tips!


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

Cyeks…I did remove the headstock and carriage. I didn't have any instructions, just winged it. They went back one w/o any challenges, except for re-aligning parts inside the tube-holes (you can see them easily) which was very easy.

So I broke the stupid tool rest holder (it's not really a banjo) while roughing a branch. I thought that knot was gonna look so cool lol. I'm hot in the market. Wow are they prod of the Delta and One-way banjos! Debating making one. They must not break often (real banjos I mean) or there would be a ready supply. The struggle is real lol.

My wife wants to understand how the "free" machine from my dad has cost so much ;-)


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

Dan K. can you verify this is like yours? Does yours use 1" posts? I just spent $90 on a Robust rest with a 1" post.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Excellent-Rockwell-Beaver-Wood-Lathe-Banjo-Tool-Rest-Base-/173964044719

This is only $100 less than a brand new Oneway. But IDK if I can adapt it to fit the Super Shop.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Gordo, the link shows a light duty version of the banjo I'm using and it is way over priced for what it is. Besides, the banjo shown doesn't accommodate a 1" post. I don't have a ready picture, but I do remember posting a link to an ebay picture like what I have. Yes, mine uses a 1" post The google fu turned up this sturdy home made one. As mentioned somewhere above, I broke the tool rest holder on one of mine, too. A good aluminum welder could repair and beef it up sufficiently. Might be half the cost of even a used Delta banjo. A "standard" slot nut that fits the underbolt was a trivial adaptation for the banjo. Most any banjo can be adapted, but I highly recommend 1" or over for tool post.

This is a good shot I had showing the whole wood lathe setup, including the Delta banjo. Notice the cool caliper setting thingy on top of the headstock. It allows quick setting of inside and outside calipers by putting the scale V into two different slots that present setting surfaces. Custom tail stock has same threads as head stock. 









cyeks, I can measure the spacing on the Fox torsion spring hub and it MIGHT be the same. However, I've never had the need to remove it. I simply removed the headstock, carriage, and tubes with the hinge locks applied FIRMLY. If you disassemble, putting the correct tension back is a little poke and hope. The good news is that precision isn't important. Just don't forget the explosive power in that torsion spring. It's worth every precaution you can take. If your carriage is powered, then you will have wiring to tinker with.

Edit: If you lock the auxilliary table (you know, the narrow one with miter slot) in the tail stock bracket, that will act as a safety for the spring tension. It can't unwind with those tubes sticking down to the casting.

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

I'd like to echo Dan's cautionary note about the power of that spring. Be careful there. I called Smithy before picking mine up about how to relieve the tension on the spring. The assembly video showed adjusting the spring with the machine in drill press mode, so I asked if I need to release the tension with the Smithy upright and was basically told not to bother. I didn't and though I broke my hand in the process. It was just badly bruised, but it could have been worse as the wrench went flying. I guess I'm lucky I didn't get hit in the head or it didn't hit some else. I recall that it sheered one of the cap screws holding it in tension as well.

Moral is that if I had to do it again, I'd release the tension with the machine upright but I'm not sure that's the proper way either. In any event, be very careful with that spring.

I had one of those wrenches/spanners for the tension spring on the Smithy, but it's gone missing over the years. I'll have a more thorough search later today. I'll at lease measure and compare the pin spacing between the Fox and Smithy.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> Hello, I'm looking forward to joining the SuperShop owners group. I've made arrangements to purchase a Smithy SuperShop, but won't get to pick it up until next month.
> I am going to have to disassemble it a fair bit to get it into my basement workshop. In preparation for that, I've watched the Smithy videos linked earlier in this thread. They talk about using a face spanner wrench to tension up the torsion spring, and that this tension has to be relieved to remove the pivot base.
> Can anyone give me some measurements on this pin-style face spanner wrench? I know it's not included in the sale. Looking for the spacing between opposite holes (center-to-center) on the torsion spring hub and also the diameter of the actual holes so I can get an adjustable spanner with appropriate sized pins. If I have this ordered in advance, hopefully I'll be ready for unmounting the upper assembly from the base when I get the SuperShop.
> On a related note, has anyone taken the carriage and headstock off of the way tubes? I'll need to do this to navigate my basement stairs. Any tricks to it or anything I should watch for?
> ...


Welcome to the addiction! I started with a Fox SS traded to me for a Shopsmith headstock I had rebuilt - I repair Shopsmith tools. It was missing a few things but I was able to adapt Shopsmith pieces to be able to use it and realize the capabilities over the Shopsmith and expand the capabilities of my shop. I then acquired a Smithy and they are "Da-brothers" sitting side by side. I recently also purchased another Fox and will pick it up in Fall from IL. It was about an hour from where I used to live and friends went to retrieve it and are keeping it for me. The Fox both have the motorized carriage and first one has a switch for reverse. So the warning for you is these can be quite addicting (Dan K warned me yet here I am!). The Smithy came with a spanner so I took pictures and measurements for you. Interestingly enough, the spanner is different spacing for Smithy & Fox. But I think some drilled holes on the Fox would fix that. 1st pic is spanner wrench- 16"L X 1 1/8"W X 14" thick. 2nd is close up of pins. The picture did not capture measurement but pins are 2 1/8" apart center-to-center. The pins look just over 3/16" diameter. 3rd is Smithy, 4th is Fox. Notice the extra holes in Smithy. At least 2 sets fix the spanner but not all. I think if I drilled matching holes in the Fox this would also work for it.





































I have not (yet) had the need to take off headstock and am not looking forward to it. Shopsmith headstocks are 55 lbs (about 65 lbs for Power Pro). They come off OK but are heavy. SuperShop headstocks just look monstrous and at least 2 people recommended.

GordoB- Make some nice stuff for her will alleviate that somewhat. If you are able to put money from your hobby back into checking account, she would need to just stop (I didn't say to be quiet because she is still a woman…...........). Yes I do get hate-email from time to time- why do you ask? LOL ;+D an


----------



## cyeks (Jul 24, 2019)

Thank you gentlemen for the quick responses. Both the video tutorial and the printed manual give a clear warning that the tension has to be relieved before removing the pivot base. I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't have the spanner wrench attached to their machine anymore but maybe not too many people need to disassemble it either.
I see what you mean about dropping in the aux table to cam it, but I'd also like to heed all the warnings about the strength of the torsion spring as well. Thanks for the help.
BTW, the unit I'm getting is the 220 version, was this common? The printed Smithy manual accompanying appears to be generic as it only references 110v. My first 220v power tool, only has three prongs in the plug. Two 110 hot and a neutral I assume. Do I need to ground this plug somehow? The existing 220v outlet in my basement also is only three prongs but the two hot prongs are horizontal (while the machine plug has one horizontal and one vertical) so I will have to rewire it (either the outlet or the plug). Does anyone know if the 220v Smithy SuperShop requires a 15 or 20amp circuit?


----------



## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

> Dan K. can you verify this is like yours? Does yours use 1" posts? I just spent $90 on a Robust rest with a 1" post.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Excellent-Rockwell-Beaver-Wood-Lathe-Banjo-Tool-Rest-Base-/173964044719
> 
> ...


Gordo - I happen to have recently acquired a banjo off an old Delta 1460 lathe. It is just shy of accepting my 1-1/8" Powermatic tool rest bars so it will definitely accept your 1" posts. It's missing the screw that locks the tool post at height but is otherwise complete and in good shape. PM me if you're interested. I assure you I will beat that Ebay price by a long shot ;-)


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

No luck yet in finding the wrench/spanner, but I've measured the spacing of the pins. What I get was the pins are 6mm diameter with a spacing of 54mm on centers. A note of caution here. 6mm pins are a bit sloppy in the holes, whereas 1/4" pins are a somewhat better fit. But inch measurements don't seem right for the spacing, whereas the metric measurement seems more likely as the machine was made in China where metric measurements prevail.

In measuring this, I used two 6mm bits in opposite holes, measured across getting close to 60mm, then subtracted 6mm to get the 54mm spacing on centers.

As for measuring the Fox Supershop, I didn't bother because there are only six holes, three of which are filled with cap screws in a triangle shape, so I'd have to remove one to make a measurement. I'm reluctant in doing that in light of my past experience with the Smithy.


----------



## cyeks (Jul 24, 2019)

Thank you DanTheToolman and Ted724 for the measurements on the spanner wrench. That's the info I needed to either purchase an adjustable or make one. I'm sure I'll have a lot more questions as I get up and running, this thread has been a terrific resource. Thank you!


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

After seeing Danthetoolmans's third photo, I took another look at my Smithy. Mine has 15 holes, not 9 as Dan's does, so I don't know if this was a manufacturing change or something the previous owner did. In any event, you can't get two holes directly opposite one another with 15 holes that are evenly spaced, nor with nine holes. You do get three holes 120 degrees apart with either 15 or 9 holes and that a match for getting the three cap screws evenly spaced for locking down the spring.

Another thing, Dan got 2 1/8" spacing and I got 54mm, the difference is only about .001" so either will work. Were I making a wrench/spanner, I'd try 2 1/8" and 1/4" pins, as the inch sized pins have a tighter fit in the holes.

Aren't the Supershops interesting?


----------



## cyeks (Jul 24, 2019)

> Aren t the Supershops interesting?
> 
> - Ted724


Not sure I fully appreciate what I've gotten myself into yet! I have the sneaking suspicion the base machine may be the cheapest part when I start looking at all I want to upgrade. But will try to take it slow.

Former owner used it primarily as a lathe so it should have all the parts to turn spindles. Beyond that, we'll have to see.

I do know I'd like to put a dado arbor on it, assuming these can't be sourced any more, my next best option to adapt a ShopSmith one to fit? Using the 5/8" drill stock with tapered flat as described previously?


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> Not sure I fully appreciate what I ve gotten myself into yet! I have the sneaking suspicion the base machine may be the cheapest part when I start looking at all I want to upgrade. But will try to take it slow.
> 
> Former owner used it primarily as a lathe so it should have all the parts to turn spindles. Beyond that, we ll have to see.
> 
> ...


Cyeks
Yes use a 5/8" shaft into an R8 collet. The one I cut from an old quill went to 3/4" so I used the 3/4" R8. Most Shopsmith items should be able to be adapted unless they tie into the way tubes on the Shopsmith. 
Another interesting thing I found- The arbor from SuperShop can also fit a 12" blade. I also have a 12" DeWalt slider so have extra blades. Having a tablesaw with a 12" blade just might come in handy…............

BTW, I eye-balled the measurements on the spanner so nice to know my eye is calibrated to .001"!!! Must be from watching my pretty wife that keeps it so sharp. :+D an


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

The banjo Mike has that's missing the post bolt…it's just a standard SAE fine thread, so any good hardware store should have the bolt. One of mine was missing too, so I just drilled a 3/16' hole in the head for a cross bar.

Going back to the torsion spring. Yes, definitely upright the machine to relieve most of the tension if you are going to mess with un-tensioning it. Unless you have a very long handled wrench, you may still have difficulty controlling it. It is actually a big truck type torsion suspension spring, so you know there's some force involved. I've done it both ways and I still think it is safer in the long run, turn the locking bolts, driop and lock the auxilliary posts. It can't go anywhere then.

The total Supershop weight pushes 600 lbs pretty hard. About 1/3 of that is in the assembled headstock. You can easily remove the motor and the quill and reduce it to about 150 lbs. Approximations of course.

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

The R8 to 4Jt adapter arrived today. There's plenty of metal for the threads, but not sure about the registration shoulder. It's about 1 1/4" at is widest, so don't know if a shoulder of 1/8" around the circumference is enough to properly register a chuck. The Penn State Industries Shopsmith 5/8" smooth bore to 1×8tpi adapter has a shoulder that's a bit under 1 5/8" in diameter.

The adapter seem of decent quality, especially for the price-about $18 with tax.

Here's a photo of the two adapters:


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Cyeks,here are some short videos by Smithy regarding the Supershop and other Smithy machines- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD8444AFC55B12F5D Page down a bit and you'll find the ones on the Supershop. Video number 52 covers the set-up process for attaching the machine to the stand and also covers info about adjusting the torsion spring. It's worth watching if you haven't seen it before.


----------



## cyeks (Jul 24, 2019)

Ted724, thanks for the link. I watched the whole set before I committed to buying the machine. I saw the parts about assembly and especially the warning about relieving the tension on the torsion spring. My purchase of the Smithy also included a VCR cassette tape that I think probably has the same video on it but it's been awhile since I had a VCR!

I found an adjustable spanner wrench on Amazon but I'm just not sure if it will stand up to the forces of the torsion spring. The pins are a little large (0.275") but I can file them down to fit. Just hope the axle holds up.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N1LJDZH/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=AH681HFJSGKNK&psc=1

I don't have any experience with metalworking, just wood, but I can also try to whip something up. Do you guys think appropriate sized bolts would work through holes drilled in a metal bar? I'm thinking of just using the unthreaded shoulder of a bolt. The forces involved are just a little scary.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Those guys in the video made tensioning that spring look so easy. So I guess if the tension applied was only one hole beyond an un-tensioned spring, then it would be quite easy to relieve the tension.

And, when I bought the Fox Supershop, two young guys, the sons of the seller, simply unbolted the machine from the base without taking tension off that lift spring and had no problem at all doing that. I cautioned them about the spring, but the didn't think it was a problem and it wasn't.

But my experience with the Smithy was entirely different as I explained earlier.

Regarding the Amazon adjustable spanner, it doesn't look all that strong for the job. I think your idea of drilling a steel bar and using bolts is doable and the best approach, provided you can get the spacing correct. Grade 8 bolts probably would be better than run-of-the-mill bolts from someplace like Tractor Supply.

Another thing I thought about a wrench/spanner would be to take a large, heavy crescent wrench and drill holes in the sides of the jaws for those cut-off bolts. At least it would be adjustable, but I don't know if it would be strong enough.


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

HokieKen Thank you so much, PM sent! Looking forward to getting back to making shavings.

Dan K: Yeah, you linked that rest on eBay. Unfortunately, at the time I was only "inconvenienced" by the annoying SS rest, it hadn't broken yet lol. It sold before I needed it.

I can attest to the weight of the power head, 2 person job for sure. And don't rest it on the "bottom" plastic cover. Mine deformed a little and I had to use some straps and the sun to get it "right". I moved it 5 times starting when I picked it up in FL through 2 moves to it's current location. SO nice to lift the whole machine on it's wheels and roll it around.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> The R8 to 4Jt adapter arrived today. There s plenty of metal for the threads, but not sure about the registration shoulder. It s about 1 1/4" at is widest, so don t know if a shoulder of 1/8" around the circumference is enough to properly register a chuck. The Penn State Industries Shopsmith 5/8" smooth bore to 1×8tpi adapter has a shoulder that s a bit under 1 5/8" in diameter.
> 
> The adapter seem of decent quality, especially for the price-about $18 with tax.
> 
> ...


Here are a couple of photos of the R8 to 4JT adapter modified with 1×8tpi threads-



















As mentioned earlier there's not much of a shoulder to register a chuck on the adapter after turning the 4JT end to 1×8 threads, so also used is a "donut" that provides adequate size and heft for registration. The "donut" is a bit over 3/8" thick and with it mounted there are about 1 1/8 of the threads exposed for mating with a chuck.

With a Nova chuck on this adapter (using the Nova "D" adapter for 1×8tpi spindles), I got .005 to .0055 runout on the outside rim of the chuck. I got .004 runout when I mounted the same chuck using a Nova 5/8" smooth bore adapter with my "Shopsmith" 5/8" drill rod spindle in a 5/8" R8 adapter. Don't know how much runout there would be if the Nova was mounted directly to a lathe wih a 1×8 spindle.

While I don't think I'll use it as a substitute for my drill rod spindle with the Nova chucks, it's a good fit for my 4-jaw independent chuck and the 3-jaw metalworking scroll chuck that are both threaded 1×8tpi. It also gets these chucks closer to the headstock bearing than using the Penn State Industries adapter with the drill rod spindle.

A competent machinist likely could knock one of these out in no time flat, but that's not me. I feel lucky that I ended up with something that I can use.


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

Wow Ted, thanks for the rundown. Do you think your results would be "typical" for any other shop making the adaption? I'll need to get a dial indicator mounted, but I suspect my runout is more than yours looking at it, so I was hoping your adapter would be better.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Wow Ted, thanks for the rundown. Do you think your results would be "typical" for any other shop making the adaption? I ll need to get a dial indicator mounted, but I suspect my runout is more than yours looking at it, so I was hoping your adapter would be better.
> 
> - GordoB


I do expect a machinist would do better. I feel lucky that I got it this close. My machine and tooling aren't really up to the task, nor are my machining skills. But, I ended up with something that will work, so I'm happy about that.


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

Warning: lots of pics

Got the banjo from HokieKen, AWESOME and at a great price. Already knew I'd have to "adapt" it, but didn't know how. I wanted to retain the ease of the eccentric that allows the lever up front to lock it down. The first couple pics show what I started with:




























Here's what I needed to get to: The top is 3/8×16 to fit T-nuts of SuperShop










Chucked it up:










And started cutting:



















I was NERVOUS. Haven't cut metal in YEARS. Took a little while to practice on some other bolts.
Here's what I got:



















Got out the die today:










Works a treat!



















Super happy!


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Warning: lots of pics
> 
> Got the banjo from HokieKen, AWESOME and at a great price. Already knew I d have to "adapt" it, but didn t know how. I wanted to retain the ease of the eccentric that allows the lever up front to lock it down. The first couple pics show what I started with:
> 
> ...


Very nice modification. GordoB!


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

^ what he said! Good job. Nice to be able to do enough metal work to make the tools do what you want!

I did a whole new "adapter" by using a 3/4" pipe cut about 5/8" long. Since I didn't have welders at the time I drilled and threaded 3/8" all thread into it and inserted with locktite. So I still have the original stuff.

Yes, they are a treat to use after the relatively feeble arm type tool rest holders.

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

You guys are pushing me toward taking a look at a banjo and tool rest mod for the Supershop. I have one of those Ernie Conover lathes that had a DIY bed made of wood that just might fit the bill, but I've never though about trying it on the Supershop. I'll have to dig it out and see if it's a fit or can be modified to fit.


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

cyeks - I've had both my Fox and Smithy SuperShops partially disassembled. I didn't have the spanner wrench for my first one - I just used a scrap of wood with bolts protruding from the side with the correct spacing. IIRC, some off-the-shelf bolts had the correct OD for the job. When upright (drill press mode), there does not need to be much torsion on the spring for it to do it's job, especially if you move the carriage and headstock to the hinged end before transitioning up or down. I only need to torque mine a few degrees to reach the first hole. This means than when I held it to remove the bolts, it didn't try to bite me. However, you can't know how much the previous owner torqued it. If I had removed it when in the down position, I expect that I would have found that there was a LOT of torque on it at that point.


----------



## cyeks (Jul 24, 2019)

Thanks merrill77, I did take note of raising it to vertical drill press mode before disassembling. Good to know it can be done with a piece of wood, I was going to drill into some metal bar stock.

Should get it in a week! Looking forward to joining the club.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> You guys are pushing me toward taking a look at a banjo and tool rest mod for the Supershop. I have one of those Ernie Conover lathes that had a DIY bed made of wood that just might fit the bill, but I ve never though about trying it on the Supershop. I ll have to dig it out and see if it s a fit or can be modified to fit.
> 
> - Ted724


I need to correct this! I don' have an Ernie Conover lathe, I just have the banjo/tool rest for a Conover lathe. That said, the banjo/toolrest won't work on a Supershop. First, it's too tall. This could be fixed by machining away some metal, but that still leaves the second issue-no way to bolt the banjo to the Shopsmith carriage. The base of the Conover banjo has a groove in it (looks like an upside down T-slot) and you lock the banjo in place by a lever that's under the lathe bed. In essence, you have to T-slots facing one another, one on the banjo, the other on the Supershop carriage. Guess I'll just keep looking for something appropriate.


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

I've finally got everything together and a little time to play. Turned a branch into some cups, and the end of a 2×12 into a plate.










The runout I have is making life difficult. The machine itself has nearly zero. The rod 2 thou, the 1×8 adapter adds 2 thou, and the chuck ads another thou. Total of .005, which really gets magnified on something the size of the plate. I'm looking at it again in a minute to try to find a solution.


----------



## cyeks (Jul 24, 2019)

Hi guys,

After a delay, I got my SuperShop. Pretty much needed to break it down into component parts in order to get it into my basement workshop but it all came apart fine and went back together with no issues.

Thanks for the help on the torsion spring bar. I released the tension in the vertical position, expecting a sudden torque on the bar but nothing happened. Removed the screws and was able to freely rotate the dial. Not much travel on the dial to go from no assist to full-assist.

I got a box full of parts and accessories, can anyone help me identify the three components in the pictures? Not even certain they all go with the SuperShop.

The 6" long black arbor has a 3/4" end that fits in the R8 collet, a couple bushings and a 1/2" threaded section. Initially I thought it might be for a dado stack but there's no nut on the end and it is 1/2" instead of 5/8".

The 9/16" diameter shiny bar has a flat section and the imprint of what may be a set screw. It also has a hollow dimple on each end.

The little black knob has a roll pin sticking out one side and it has a flat section cut in the 1/2" narrow end.





































Still sorting through everything and trying out the different machine configurations. Looks like I will need to replace the lathe tool rest, I think there was some discussion earlier in this thread so I'll go back up and see what my options are. Are people using the geared main table lift to attach tool rests or just bolting directly to the T-slots on the carriage?

Lastly, just putting this out there, if anyone is interested in a never-used SuperShop jointer, let me know. I'd also be interested in trading for the SuperShop belt sander.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

I was following the posts on the banjo tool rests and here is what I am working on. This is a Shopsmith Universal Tool Rest. In original form it was just a schosh too tall. If I remove the top part it is lwer and the tool rest can adjust but I need to drill/tape a hole to be able to lock the height. Seems pretty doable. Then I need a longer screw to be able to touch the tool rest shaft to lock in place. I think this will work stellar.




































first 2 pics show overview of setup. 3rd is what tool rest has for adjustment with top part removed. 4th is the top part that was removed. Justthe round plate weighs around 35 lbs so will add some stability- as if the SuperShop needed more weight! LOL


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

@Cyeks
the 6" shaft with 1/2" end is a shaper arbor. Mine has a plastic guard to help keep fingers away from the spinning cutters. The 9/16" shaft I bet is a shaft previous owner used to drive something with a 9/16" bore. The other looks like possibly the drive for the jointer but has a different end with the tapered flat like a Shopsmith part. Does it fit over the bottom PTO shaft on left of headstock? The pin might be to fit in the slot on that lower PTO.
Good to hear you got it reloacted into its new home where you can now learn/play.


----------



## cyeks (Jul 24, 2019)

Thanks @DantheToolman!

I don't have any shaper cutters so that's why the whole thing looks foreign to me. It did come with the clear plastic disc guard and the 1/2" arbor fits right through it. Thanks for clarifying.

The little knob does have the tapered flat, it fits over the lower PTO shaft, but it's a sloppy fit and I don't know if it would be any more secure driving in that pin. You're thinking maybe it's a coupler for Shopsmith accessories? I would have thought anything going to an accessory needed to have the plastic spring-loaded coupler to prevent damage. Anyway, it will go in the spare parts bin for now.

Thanks again.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

I went to shop and dug out my shaper arbor and a cutter and took some pictures as well as documentation from the Smithy manual.




































If you or anyone else is interested I have some duplicate cutters and I am purging my extra stuff. These seem to be pricy from past sales I have seen. I need to dig them out anyway and keep at least one of each for me then sell the rest. Let me know if interested and we can take this offline. I checked EBay and prices range around $14-15 each. I would sell mine extras for less- especially if multiples are involved. 
BTW, the saw arbor can handle 10" & 12" saw blades. I have a spare 12" mounted from my DeWalt slider miter.
If you scan back in this thread I posted some pictures of the drive hubs for the left side of headstock. The jointer is a round one with a pin for the slot in lower shaft- to a Shopsmith style hub drive. The upper has a 10 spline drive hub to Shopsmith style drive hub. Fox machines have an 8 spline upper. I have a 10 with my Smithy but no 8 spline I have found. There is a seller on EBay that prints Shopsmith drive hubs/shafts. I was in discussion with him about printing some and he sent me a bunch but they were too small. I bet we could get him to print some if we worked with him to get them sized right. 
thnx, Dan


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Lastly, just putting this out there, if anyone is interested in a never-used SuperShop jointer, let me know. I d also be interested in trading for the SuperShop belt sander.
> 
> - cyeks


Where are you located and what's your asking price for the jointer? Don't have a Supershop belt sander, but do have a Shopsmith model which likely is quite similar.

Like Dan, I'd expect that the short item you posted a picture of is the adapter that's used to drive the jointer from the lower (threaded and slotted) spindle on the rear of the headstock.


----------



## cyeks (Jul 24, 2019)

@Ted724, I'm located in St. Louis. I'll PM you details.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

I just sold the Smithy 6" jointer that came with last machine for $325 after I honed and reset blades. I already have a 6" and looking to upgrade to 8". The Shopsmith belt sander is great and will fit on the Supershop as long as you have the adapter plate to fit the SuperShop ends to the Shopsmith spacing and have the upper drive parts to make it work. If belt sander and jointer are in good working condition, that would not be a bad trade. I repair Shopsmith tools and am branching out into other brands as well- SuperShop is similar so adding that as well.
I have 2 Shopsmith belt sanders and use them constantly. I keep one mounted on a Shopsmith mini-Mark V and disk sander on quill end or I also have a strip sander I can mount.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> I was following the posts on the banjo tool rests and here is what I am working on. This is a Shopsmith Universal Tool Rest. In original form it was just a schosh too tall. If I remove the top part it is lwer and the tool rest can adjust but I need to drill/tape a hole to be able to lock the height. Seems pretty doable. Then I need a longer screw to be able to touch the tool rest shaft to lock in place. I think this will work stellar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dan, in post #98 of this thread I show a photo of a toolrest that I use on my standard Shopsmith toolpost that may save you from modifying the universal set-up. I got a three piece set from Penn State Industries. The vertical section of the toolrests is 5/8" diameter, but they include a 3/4" sleeve so that it fits the Shopsmith toolpost. I use mostly the narrow toolrest.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Dan, in post #98 of this thread I show a photo of a toolrest that I use on my standard Shopsmith toolpost that may save you from modifying the universal set-up. I got a three piece set from Penn State Industries. The vertical section of the toolrests is 5/8" diameter, but they include a 3/4" sleeve so that it fits the Shopsmith toolpost. I use mostly the narrow toolrest.
> 
> - Ted724


I just looked at the Penn State site, and I'd guess they don't include the sleeve any more. At least they don't mention it in the ad. If interested, I'd call them before ordering just to make sure of what's included. They have some other sleeves in their catalog, but they don't show a 5/8" to 3/4" sleeve.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Dan, regarding the drive hub you tried to get printed, I was thinking a while back, but never got any further, that I'd make a shaft out of 5/8" drill rod or 5/8" all-thread that would run through the headstock (like the draw bar) and would allow one to attach a Shopsmith hub/coupling to the left end. The right end of the shaft would need to be threaded for bolts to thighten the shaft, while the left end could simply be pinned. You'd need a couple of tapered bushings to center the drill rod/all-thread at either end of the spindle. and I'm thinking these bushings could even be made of wood. Just a thought, as I'm in the same boat as you regarding having a plastic hub with 10 splines for the Smithy, but not one to fit the 8 splines on the Fox.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

cyek, the nut on the 1/2" shaft is a 1/2×20 UNF which is a standard nut available in the bins of a farm store or big box store. Get more than one…ypu'll eventually need it! It also holds any grind stone, polishing wheel, or other accessory with a 1/2" hole.

The short stubby adapter with a pin is a PTO drive adapter of some sort. Because of the tapered flat typical of Shopsmith, I suspect it could be used to mount the 5 spline Shopsmith adapter on the PTO. It's an extra piece not shipped with the Fox units.

Ted, the PTO shaft of the Supershop (middle shaft between motor and quill shaft) headstock is designed to be the right height for Shopsmith accessories given the use of a mounting adapter. I have a Shopsmith bandsaw mounted on left end using a Shopsmith 4 and 5 spline drive knobs and their plastic drive coupling. Trying to use the quill shaft as a driver would put the accessories at step ladder height. 

That's an interesting banjo from Shopsmith. Didn't know such a thing existed. That tool rest looks to be a tall one, so perhaps a lower one would work better. But we use what we have! Right?

DanK


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Thank you 55×3. I forgot to answer that question, but you did good. Now, where's the rest of the hold down?

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Ted, the PTO shaft of the Supershop (middle shaft between motor and quill shaft) headstock is designed to be the right height for Shopsmith accessories given the use of a mounting adapter. I have a Shopsmith bandsaw mounted on left end using a Shopsmith 4 and 5 spline drive knobs and their plastic drive coupling. Trying to use the quill shaft as a driver would put the accessories at step ladder height.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Hi DanK,

The only add-on tool I have for the Supershop is the Smithy bandsaw and It's driven by the quill shaft. That black plastic drive hub that fits over the splines on the back end of the quill shaft (as shown in message #112,photos 4,5,and 6) connects to the bandsaw with one of those white plastic coupler kits. The only difference in the white plastic coupler kits from Shopsmith and Smithy is that the Shopsmith logo doesn't appear on the Smithy version.

On the Shopsmith, all of their add-on tools (Shopsmith calls them Special Purpose Tools) except the jointer run off the upper spindle on the back end of the Shopsmith headstock. The jointer runs off a second spindle located on the back of the headstock, similar to the way the Smithy jointer mounts on the Supershop.

On my Smithy bandsaw mounted on the Supershop the table is 46" off the floor. With a Shopsmith bandsaw mounted on a Shopsmith, the table is at about the same level. On a Chinese-built 14" Delta bandsaw, the table is about 42" off the floor.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> To Cyeks:
> the chrome rod with a flat side is the rod for the mortise hold down clamp that mounts in the center of the Fence.
> 
> - SSx3


SSx3 (George) asked me to post this picture for clarity of the mortiser setup showing the 9?16" round bar with the flat.









@DanK- The tool rest was too high but taking off the top it is now lower and only modification is to drill/tap a hole to be able to lock the rest vertically. I will also look for a shorter one because on short turnings the length of the rest holder and touch the headstock or tailstock. I will check out Ted724's post showing how he modified a Shopsmith tool rest - I do have a few spares here from buying/selling them. ;+D

I also can run the tools on the quill end of the SuperShop on my Fox because it has reverse. Once I get my 2nd Fox here from IL I will add that feature. I suspect it is just a wire into the motor voltage to get motor to run in reverse- just feed DC voltage in opposite polarity. There is a switch on the rear of my Fox that does the reverse. Putting a tool on quill end without reverse would have tool running in wrong direction (except for Shopsmith jigsaw and belt sander- have to put drive hub on aux shaft to get belt spinning down).


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> I also can run the tools on the quill end of the SuperShop on my Fox because it has reverse. Once I get my 2nd Fox here from IL I will add that feature. I suspect it is just a wire into the motor voltage to get motor to run in reverse- just feed DC voltage in opposite polarity. There is a switch on the rear of my Fox that does the reverse. Putting a tool on quill end without reverse would have tool running in wrong direction (except for Shopsmith jigsaw and belt sander- have to put drive hub on aux shaft to get belt spinning down).
> 
> - DantheToolman


Here's a schematic of adding the reversing switch:


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

That last schematic wasn't of much use, so here's another go at it:


----------



## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

I think I'm in the wrong place…
Do you know where the "Super Shop-Owners" forum is?


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> I think I m in the wrong place…
> Do you know where the "Super Shop-Owners" forum is?
> 
> - DS


This is one and Yahoo has another created that was dormant but SSx3 took over. 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SuperShopTool/info


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

A word of caution about reversing Fox Supershops main motor. Fox did not have the reversing feature originally for reasons I do not know. Adding it is possible, but it introduces the possibility of catastrophic events. All the auxiliary spindles are right hand threads without notched washers, so an inadvertent reverse can unscrew the attachment. Since the table cannot be positioned so that the shaper spindle comes from underneath, there is very little reason to introduce reversing the main motor. The exception is to run attachments as described above.

DS, if you are a Supershop owner or just have questions we will be happy to share what we know.

DanK


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

Reversing the lathe is useful when sanding… or so I've been told, anyway. Both because it is more effective to sand the fibers the other direction and because it throws the dust the other direction.


----------



## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

Sorry, it was my pathetic attempt at humor.

Super, shop owner.

This is how my brain has been mis-reading this thread's header every time it pops up to the top of the pulse list.

Way back in the early days, I nearly bought a Shop Smith Mark V, which appears to be a very similar machine to your supershop.
(Maybe it is heresy to say that - my ignorance is showing a little bit)

I opted for the separate machines and have not parked a vehicle in my garage since.

After 35 plus years, I'm not sure I would change it.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

DS, the multifunction machines are great for hobby use where space is more constrained than time. I started my woodworking business and thought it was a great advance to have a Shopsmith machine with all its capability. It gradually retreated to just lathe work as stand-a-lone equipment became practical. But I jumped at replacing the Shopsmith with the much more robust Supershop, which included the possibility of metal work.

Coming from a farm background where all the machinery had to be stored indoors, I allowed myself only one bay of the two car garage only because we had only one car. Since then the shop had to be in a separate building. Some of that was motivated by the "going to work" mentality, but also because I didn't want to lose the house if the shop caught fire. Then there's the dust problem that is not friendly to housekeepers…

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

*Mounting Shopsmith Tools on the Supershop*

This morning I though I'd follow through on making an adapter to mount and drive Shopsmith (or Smithy, TotalShop, etc.) tools on the Supershop.

Using 5/8" all-thread. some nuts, washers, a Shopsmith poweer coupler, and some lathe-turned bushings I was able to run the Supershop bandsaw without the Smithy black plastic drive hub that fits over the splines at the back end of the spindle. I haven't cut the all-thread to length yet. I used all-thread because I had it on hand. But one could use drill rod and thread one or both ends.

To mount a Shopsmith SPT (Special Purpose Tool-bandsaw, belt sander, etc.), you can adapt an items sold by Shopsmith (the SPT Mounting Base, part number 505655) or you can made something out of wood. A wooden mount would need to be drilled and tapped for set screws to "clamp" the vertical tubes on the tools. Shopsmith wants about $50 for their mounting base.

I've not actually mounted a Shopsmith SPT on the Supershop as I have Shopsmith equipment for that, and I don't want to monkey with the length of those mounting tubes on the Shopsmith tools as it may require that they would need to be shortened a bit in order to align their spindles with the Supershop spindle. At least that would likely be the case if a tool were mounted as shown in my photos. It also would be possible to attach a mounting base located off the end of the Supershop and then simply make a longer all-thread rod to span the greater distance between the tool and the Supershop headstock..

Here are some photos of the set-up, along with a couple of mock-ups of how one could mount a Shopsmith tool on the Supershop.
































































.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Ted, that's a pretty clear explanation. I say that because even I could understand it! It clarifies the need to use the quill spindle for driving accessories. The Fox adapter I have drops over the left end and holds the Shopsmith equipment low enough that it is driven with the PTO (middle) shaft. There's a picture of it somewhere on this thread.

Question about your first picture. It looks like the bandsaw is standing in the Supershop post holes but still uses the quill for power source. Was that a "standard" setup for Smithy and other replicas?

Tony Fox was in the process of developing and beginning to market a remarkable three wheel band saw. It used the same style table as the table saw setup. I would dearly love to have one. I think only about 12 prototypes were made. Don't know for sure. But it was set up to use the PTO shaft.

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Question about your first picture. It looks like the bandsaw is standing in the Supershop post holes but still uses the quill for power source. Was that a "standard" setup for Smithy and other replicas?
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Hi DanK,

That photo was of the Smithy bandsaw that came with the Smithy Supershop, and that is the standard set-up for running it. The bandsaw is a partial clone of the Shopsmith bandsaw and I believe the Smithy was derived from the bandsaw sold by TotalShop and others that sold clones of Shopsmith Mark V back in the '80s. I believe Shopsmith still had some active patents on the bandsaw so they couldn't be copied exactly.

Externally the Smithy and Shopsmith bandsaws look similar, but internally they differ. The Smithy is like a traditional bandsaw where the upper wheel is tilted to track the blade. On the Shopsmith, the upper wheel is tilted at a preset angle and bearings are used to keep the blade from coming off the back of the wheel. The width and height capacities are slightly different as well.

I'm guessing that the Smithy belt sander and jointer were clones of the Shopsmith stuff and copies of what TotalShop had sold, except the Smithy jointer is 6" while the Shopsmith is only 4".


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

> Question about your first picture. It looks like the bandsaw is standing in the Supershop post holes but still uses the quill for power source. Was that a "standard" setup for Smithy and other replicas?


Yes…at least, that is the way my SuperShop-branded bandsaw hooks up.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

*Update on Mounting Shopsmith Tools on the Supershop*

After DanK mentioned how Fox handled mounting another tool on the Fox Supershop, I took a Shopsmith bandsaw and tried mounting it on one of those mounting methods I mentioned earlier. * It doesn't work! * The Shopsmith bandsaw spindle was about 4" above the Supershop's spindle and there isn't any room to lower the bandsaw further.

So, the only option would be to build a mount that is located off the left end of the Supershop so that the two spindles can be brought into alignment. Designing something that will work and have sufficient strength will have to wait for another day.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Here are pictures of the correct way to mount accessory tools on the Supershop. One can be easily fabbed but flat stock and correctly sized tubes. The 1 & 2 pictures are from a jointer so Shopsmith mount tubes are short because it runs off bottom spindle. The bandsaw in picture 3 those tubes are longer to allow power from upper spindle. 
@Ted724- I like what you came up with for upper drive. The threaded rod should work well and the nuts hold it together. I was mentally working on something for this and your wheel look good enough not to need to reinvent another!


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> @Ted724- I like what you came up with for upper drive. The threaded rod should work well and the nuts hold it together. I was mentally working on something for this and your wheel look good enough not to need to reinvent another!
> 
> - DantheToolman


The only thing I can add about using the all-thread is that I'd grind a flat (or a Shopsmith style tapered flat) so that the set screw that holds the Shopsmith drive hub in place doesn't smash the threads when attaching and removing the hub. Without the flat, it makes getting the nuts off the all thread a bit difficult. It's much easier to remove and insert the whole assembly from the right side of the headstock.


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

There is a "Smithy SuperShop 6" Jointer for ShopSmith/Super Shop/Total Shop woodworking" on eBay. Starting bid is $225. As much as mine weighs, shipping will not be cheap. But if you're looking…


----------



## cyeks (Jul 24, 2019)

If any Lumberjocks members are interested in the jointer, PM me. I'll make you a heck of a deal. Catch is, it's local pick-up only. I'm not keen to ship it because of the aforementioned weight. It's over 80lbs and that's before any kind of shipping container.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Also a complete Smithy with all 3 major attachment tools and some metal working stuff. He is way too high at $2250 but looks like nice condition if he could be made to "see the light of reality"! It is NE of Eau Claire WI. It is a gray Smithy and no carriage motor.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

+I am making a jig to be able to mount the Shopsmith Ringmaster on the SuperShops. Basically I cut short Shopsmith tubes and made end plates that will hold them and cutouts that fit tightly over the SuperShop bars. 
This should also give me more room for larger rings. In theory up to the 17" capacity of the SuperShop. But the lower mount for the Ringmaster will cut it back to what looks like 14". This would be great for glued up flat boards for segments bowls- I can make the blanks larger than the standard 1X12X12 the Ringmaster was designed for.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

I was able to "play" with the new modification. I did get a rude reminder to CHECK WHICH BELT RANGE IS ACTIVE> Max speed for Ringmaster is 900 and I thought I was running low range but belt was on middle pulleys so actual speed was about 3X that! I did have shields in place and was protected by a shop apron, but it just is a good reminder that anything can go wrong even if one has been playing with wood a long time. The outer ring EXPLODED once the cutters got almost through. There are still a couple small pieces I have not found yet. But then it worked as it should and the rings are ready for glue-up.





































When I get time, I plan to glue up a larger board and cut and re-glue to experiment with segmented bowl turning. I have some minor tweaking but the jig worked great.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> I was able to "play" with the new modification. I did get a rude reminder to CHECK WHICH BELT RANGE IS ACTIVE> Max speed for Ringmaster is 900 and I thought I was running low range but belt was on middle pulleys so actual speed was about 3X that! I did have shields in place and was protected by a shop apron, but it just is a good reminder that anything can go wrong even if one has been playing with wood a long time. The outer ring EXPLODED once the cutters got almost through. There are still a couple small pieces I have not found yet. But then it worked as it should and the rings are ready for glue-up.
> 
> !
> When I get time, I plan to glue up a larger board and cut and re-glue to experiment with segmented bowl turning. I have some minor tweaking but the jig worked great.
> ...


Hi Dan,

Thanks for the reminder about the need for checking speed/belt position before operating the Supershop.

Regarding the Ringmaster, what are you using to keep the Ringmaster is place on the Supershop? In the earlier post, you used clamps, but I can't see exactly how it's attached to the Supershop in these later photos. I only ask because I too have a Ringmaster, but I've never used it after getting it at an auction some years ago. Keep us informed on how you're getting on with it. May have to dust the thing off and give it a try.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Nicely done ring master setup, DTT.

Glad you weren't hurt. I have many variable speed machines and I make it a practice to turn the adjustment to minimum when I leave the machine. Then if it starts up in the wrong range (haven't done that for a very long time now) I'll know before anything bad can happen.

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> Nicely done ring master setup, DTT.
> 
> Glad you weren t hurt. I have many variable speed machines and I make it a practice to turn the adjustment to minimum when I leave the machine. Then if it starts up in the wrong range (haven t done that for a very long time now) I ll know before anything bad can happen.
> 
> ...


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> Hi Dan,
> 
> Thanks for the reminder about the need for checking speed/belt position before operating the Supershop.
> 
> ...


Ted you do really need to get that thing out! The possibilities are endless. I will take some pictures how I mounted it and try to get enough detail to show how it is mounted. But in a nutshell, I have a surplus of Shopsmith way tubes so cut some lengths for the Ringmaster to mount. Then I mounted them between jig sides using threaded rob and got them spaced just right and tightened the nuts- I used locking nuts with nylon inserts. Then I cut slots for the jig to mount to the bars of the SuperShop. To get spacing good and tight, I took off end tie bar and stuck the jig pieces on end and used that for a pattern. I used a large fostner bit to do the basic holes just lightly undersized then cut the top part on bandsaw and nibbled some of the excess using the balde. Then I have an oscillating spindle sander to get a nice snug fit. Even with the bars on the jig, it will hold itself on the Supershop bars while I clamp. Once I got a nice fit, I took top plates across the sides of the jig to lock it onto the SuperShop bars. It is a nice fit and it does not move- at all. I used 2" screws and predrilled. the jig is poplar so a nice easy wood to work but durable and hard enough to last. Eventually I will probably paint it to make it "look pretty"- or not.
The bottom plate for the Ringmaster was used to fasten the Ringmaster to the jig. the rounded bottom plates rested on the Shopsmith bars perfectly and the edges of the bottom plate fit into the grooves of the rack on the SuperShop- make sure not to cross thread the long screw (5/16" head) when starting because the larger size of SuperShop tubes make the plate slightly cocked from parallel with bottom of Ringmaster.

One problem was to reach further in, I had to move the Ringmaster in as well to be able to cut rings far enough in for size bowl I wanted. I rested the curve of bottom seat on SuperShop bar and used a C clamp since there was no danger having it secured in that area and changing the cutting angle slightly made no difference to the cutters. Then I was able to cut as far as it would allow. I am considering longer bars the cutter carriage rides on and longer indexing plate. Then I can clamp as in beginning and have entire range.

Next experiment will be glue up some different colored strips of wood and possibly cut/re-glue them into a pattern- or a pie pattern- and cut rings. Then make a design during glue up. Segmented bowls are what these are called. Also can glue rings inverted to go in not out for a different shape such as a vase (snooty people pronounce this vaaaaaaaase Darlink)

Here are some pictures. let me know if any other questions.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Ted you do really need to get that thing out! The possibilities are endless. I will take some pictures how I mounted it and try to get enough detail to show how it is mounted. But in a nutshell, I have a surplus of Shopsmith way tubes so cut some lengths for the Ringmaster to mount. Then I mounted them between jig sides using threaded rob and got them spaced just right and tightened the nuts- I used locking nuts with nylon inserts. Then I cut slots for the jig to mount to the bars of the SuperShop. To get spacing good and tight, I took off end tie bar and stuck the jig pieces on end and used that for a pattern. I used a large fostner bit to do the basic holes just lightly undersized then cut the top part on bandsaw and nibbled some of the excess using the balde. Then I have an oscillating spindle sander to get a nice snug fit. Even with the bars on the jig, it will hold itself on the Supershop bars while I clamp. Once I got a nice fit, I took top plates across the sides of the jig to lock it onto the SuperShop bars. It is a nice fit and it does not move- at all. I used 2" screws and predrilled. the jig is poplar so a nice easy wood to work but durable and hard enough to last. Eventually I will probably paint it to make it "look pretty"- or not.
> The bottom plate for the Ringmaster was used to fasten the Ringmaster to the jig. the rounded bottom plates rested on the Shopsmith bars perfectly and the edges of the bottom plate fit into the grooves of the rack on the SuperShop- make sure not to cross thread the long screw (5/16" head) when starting because the larger size of SuperShop tubes make the plate slightly cocked from parallel with bottom of Ringmaster.
> 
> One problem was to reach further in, I had to move the Ringmaster in as well to be able to cut rings far enough in for size bowl I wanted. I rested the curve of bottom seat on SuperShop bar and used a C clamp since there was no danger having it secured in that area and changing the cutting angle slightly made no difference to the cutters. Then I was able to cut as far as it would allow. I am considering longer bars the cutter carriage rides on and longer indexing plate. Then I can clamp as in beginning and have entire range.
> ...


Hi Dan,

Thanks for the very detailed explanation regarding your setup of the Ringmaster. The description and photos should give me enough to copy your excellent jig. I have a couple of extra Shopsmith tubes, as well as some short sections left over from making a "Shorty" a while back that I likely can use for something similar.

Regarding your interest in segmented turnings, I came across an interesting web site on the subject by a guy named Jerry Bennett about a month ago -http://www.segeasy.com/index.html . There are some video tutorials and downloads on the subject. There also are some products for sale to help in making the segments.


----------



## cyeks (Jul 24, 2019)

I've gotten a lot of great info from this thread, thanks all for contributing. Here's a couple small things I've done on my SuperShop.

I added a big on/off paddle switch and just Gooped it to the front of the machine. I looked around for a better place to integrate the switch but this was just the easiest and most accessible in both horizontal and vertical use.

I found the key system to be a bit fiddly and the prior owner already replaced the toggle switch once after a failure. I spliced into the main power cord before it feeds to the built-in toggle switch. Wire enters the powerhead thru the hole pre-drilled presumably for the auto-feed carriage.

While I had the Amazing Goop out, I added a magnet to hold the drill chuck key.










Lastly, I built the lathe banjo referenced in an earlier video. I made it out of hard maple and realized that because of the multiple T-tracks in the carriage, it doesn't really have to support a lot of load out on the arm since the base is supported by the carriage top most of the time.










I'm just doing spindle turnings for now so I don't need a lot of clearance/capacity from this setup yet. The big wooden knob can be replaced with a simple nut and the arm could be thinned down for larger diameter pieces. For now it's convenient to just loosen/tighten the knob without tools. Still need a socket wrench to lock down the tool rest securely.

I made the parts beefier than they probably need to be but it definitely feels stable. I don't have welding capability so I bought the tool rest set from Peachtree for $30.

I made an elongated nut to prevent binding in the T-track when sliding the banjo in the track.










That's all I have for now, still really enjoying using the SuperShop.


----------



## cyeks (Jul 24, 2019)

I do have a couple unrelated questions:

1) Does anyone know the size of the set screw used to lock the miter gauge in the miter slot? Mine is missing and I took the miter gauge to the hardware store but couldn't find a screw size to thread in. I assume it's metric but the thread spacing didn't match with the common bolts they had.










2) Is there a way to flatten a 12" sanding disc? Mine appears to lay flat on a table but in use there's clearly a high spot that comes around so I'm not getting an even sanding. I'm looking at ebay for a ShopSmith sanding disc but I guess there's no guarantee that they would be flat either.

3) Slightly related, has anyone used the ShopSmith conical sanding disc and have thoughts on it? If I'm going to buy another disc, maybe I get that one for some additional functionality. I'm thinking it can still be used as a traditional flat disc if the miter gauge is set to 4 deg to compensate for the conical portion?


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

*Fixture for mounting Shopsmith Special Purpose Tools on SuperShop*

Here are some photos of the fixture I made for mounting Shopsmith tools on the Supershop. Since I have both Supershop and Shopsmith equipment, I didn't want to adapt any of the Shopsmith tools to fit exclusively on the Supershop, so now I can mount the Shopsmith tools I have on either machine.

The fixture is made of 3/4" oak-faced plywood with a poplar core that I had lying around, two lathe-turned red oak posts ( 1 1/2" diameter by 5 1/2" long) that fit into the two holes at the end of the Supershop, some glue, and screws, as well as a Shopsmith mounting base. I used the Shopsmith mounting base because I had it, although a wooden mounting base of sorts would likely work just as well. The top of the mounting base is level with the end cap with the two holes on the Supershop. This allows for fitting the Shopsmith tools on a Supershop or a Shopsmith without having to adjust the height of the tool to align with the spindles on either machine. The two posts keep everything aligned and the revolving clamping handle between the two holes keeps them tight, although tightening and loosening the clamping handle is a bit awkward, but possible using the square opening I cut in the fixture. The bottom of the fixture rests on the Supershop base, providing additional support.

To get accurate spacing for the two posts, I made a template (see the last photo) using two 3×3" pieces of 3/4" plywood and drilled a 1 1/2" hole in the center. Fit the squares onto the two lathe-turned posts and dropped them into the two holes on the Supershop end cap. Then using screws connected the two squares with a 3" wide strip of plywood that spanned across the two posts. After removing the posts, I then drilled the rests of the way through the wood strip with a 1 1/2" forstner bit. The last photo shows the template I ended up with.

I show the Shopsmith jointer mounted in the fixture, but I'm unable to use it on the Supershop because it needs to be driven by the lower Power Take Off (PTO) on the headstock and I don't have anything that will allow that just yet. I'm guessing that the PTO on the Smithy Supershop measures 20mm with a 2mm pitch, so I'll have to figure out something. Haven't measured the one on the Fox yet.

To run these Shopsmith tools, I'm using the drive adapter I showed in earlier post that uses 5/8" all-thread, as the span between the tool and the Supershop headstock is too great to use the standard Supershop drive hub and connector. I've been thinking that I could saw in half the plastic drive connector and insert a dowel rod of appropriate length between the two halves in order to drive the accessory tools, but haven't tried that yet.

Aside froma few parts, I don't have any drawings or measurements for the individual parts of the fixture as I simply measured things to fit as I went along.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

cyeks- Glad you are having fun and get to be creative at same time with the machine. I am getting ansy to get my #3 machine in my shop from IL. I'll bring it home on next visit in November. I have 2 Fox & 1 Smithy.

BTW, for general knowledge, George posted a comment about Smithy having limited stock of tools. This is true. I spoke to Ellie and ordered a few parts just so I have some in case they break. Since I repair Shopsmith tools, I figure these are not much of a stretch even though different. So if anyone runs into carnage…......

I also got some 5/8" drill rod and am making spindles to use Shopsmith parts on any of the machines.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> I do have a couple unrelated questions:
> 
> 1) Does anyone know the size of the set screw used to lock the miter gauge in the miter slot? Mine is missing and I took the miter gauge to the hardware store but couldn t find a screw size to thread in. I assume it s metric but the thread spacing didn t match with the common bolts they had.
> 
> ...


Chris, I tried measuring that locking screw for a Fox miter gauge (but it fits the Smithy as well) and got no where. It is .390 in diameter or close to 25/64" or 10mm. It's about a 1/4" long. The best fit with a thread pitch gauge was for 27TPI, which goes with tapered pipe threads or lamp fittings. These screws are tapered so they spread the two sides of the miter gauge apart in order to lock it in the miter gauge slot. Shopsmith has a similar style miter gauge bar, but the tapered locking screw doesn't fit the Supershop. It's about a 1/64" larger diameter than the Fox screw. Hopefully, someone else will know for sure what it is.

Regarding the Shopsmith conical sanding disk, it's good for squaring the edge of a board like you would on a jointer if you tilt the table the 4 degrees to match the taper of the disk. It also can be used to sharpen planer and jointer blades if you also have the Shopsmith holder for the blades. Otherwise, IMO the standard flat disk is more useful for everything else.

Perhaps an arbor or hydraulic press would help in flattening the disk you have. Or, perhaps an angle grinder could remove the high spot.

Woodcraft sells a 10" sanding disk that mounts like a saw blade.


----------



## cyeks (Jul 24, 2019)

Ted724, Thanks for taking the time to get those measurements. Might explain why I'm having trouble finding something that fits. I looked in the Smithy manual exploded parts diagram and it's simply listed as "SS694 Set Screw", no dimensions.

I'll see what I can do with flattening the sanding disc, although I'm still inclined to get a ShopSmith one on eBay to be able to stick a different grit on there. Thanks for the info on conical.

I'd use the sanding disc more if the table saw lower blade guard/dust shroud could be used for dust collection. It does fit but I realized you can't lower the table enough. Eventually I'll get around to building a shorter box to enclose the lower portion of the sanding disc and stick a vacuum port out the side.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> Ted724, Thanks for taking the time to get those measurements. Might explain why I m having trouble finding something that fits. I looked in the Smithy manual exploded parts diagram and it s simply listed as "SS694 Set Screw", no dimensions.
> 
> I ll see what I can do with flattening the sanding disc, although I m still inclined to get a ShopSmith one on eBay to be able to stick a different grit on there. Thanks for the info on conical.
> 
> ...


I sent an email to Ellie @Smithy to see if they might have that set screw. She can check but parts list shows reference # but no part #. I have both Fox & Smithy units and my Fox miter has that set screw. It fits in the Smithy miter bar. I did some hunting in my taps and the 1/8 27 NPT tap meshes with the threads on that screw and that tap fits the Smithy miter bar. NPT threads are tapered I believe which fits with the purpose of that screw. As it is tightened, it spreads the miter to snug up the fit in the slot. The head is an Allen (hex) and my 3/16" Allen fits it perfectly. I also know it is not the 3/8 24 TPI cause that tap is close but did not mesh with screw threads nor fit well into the hole. I did a search and see that seems to be a common size set screw available from several places for relatively cheap. I added some pics for fun.
























In the searches I see a 3/16" Allen head mentioned so think that is correct. 
I also have a few extra Shopsmith Sanding disks I can sell if you are interested. I have both steel and aluminum for Shopsmith. The aluminum or M500 steel should work fine and I can spin test them. I have at least 7 steel and 5 aluminum sanding discs. Checking EBAY I see many around $35 + shipping. I will sell either for $25 plus shipping. I have plenty if you want more than one to load different grits. I also have a decent selection of the 12" disc papers in various grits. Feel free to contact me [email protected] if interested and we can go from there.


----------



## cyeks (Jul 24, 2019)

Thanks Dan, I will contact you privately regarding the discs.

The info on the set screw is gold. Now that I know what to look for it shouldn't be much trouble. There's a Grainger just down the street from me. Thank you!


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Well, I'm late to the party, but the set screw stuff is old hat to me. BTDT. Yes, it is pipe thread and I didn't have any trouble finding a fit. Wish I could remember where! But you've solved the problem.

The conical disk you asked about, *cyeks*, does not perform the same way a flat disk does. The conical is designed to run adjacent to a slightly tilted table so that the table surface is perpendicular to a vertical radius line on the disk. I'm thinking 10° if I remember correctly. Once that relationship is established, then the sanding disc will sand parallel to the grain of a passing board and leave no swirl marks like a flat disk would. It works well to run the edge of a board against a fence set at a distance to remove a very slight amount. Remember, it's sandpaper, not a jointer knife.

Before you go to a lot of trouble flattening the 12" wobbly disk, check for runout in the collet by placing a 3/4" rod in the collet and check the runout with a dial indicator. If it is within 0.002", then simply true up the face of the disk with a lathe scraper. That will remove the high spots at least. It is trivial for a machinist to true up the disk, so it shouldn't cost much if you want it really true.

*Ted*, You have done a remarkable job building an adapter for Shopsmith accessories outboard on the Supershop!.

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

I got a response from Ellie @ Smithy (DTM Sales). The SS694 is the part # for that set screw and they have plenty in stock. Cost is $.75 each if you cannot find anywhere else or need to order other stuff from DTM. I also received the order from DTM for parts. Of the remaining 4 torsion springs for raising/lowering the unit into vertical, I ordered 2. Those things are HEAVY! I figured if one does break (as evidenced by past postings), they will be hard to find. After Thanksgiving, I will have 2 Fox and 1 Smithy in my shop so odds are at some point I might need one. But also am expanding repair to include SuperShop and other brands, not just Shopsmith. 
I also was measuring wobble on some sanding discs for Cyeks and my run-out on my Fox is .0015" so not bad. The old greenie Shopsmith quill I sacrificed has too much wobble and can see it when it turns. I got some 5/8" drill rod (oil quenched) and cut some spindles and ground/filed a tapered flat and it still measured .0015" so am happy. I am reluctant to measure the Smithy cause I think it will be a problem. It has a grinding/cruchy noise when it turns. Currently it is setup as a permanent drill press and eventually will have to deal with it but that will be a tear-down and replace bearings etc. I do not have time for that right now. My major project is adding more insulation to my shop. It is a metal building and had some "minimal" stuff (basically bubble-wrap with house wrap in one side and silver foil on other- patetic to say the least. I am adding a layer of insulation inside to make an envelope and isolate the metal beams from radiating the heat inside. R-22 in ceiling and R-17 for walls. It is a HUGE project cause wood purloins need to be installed between the metal beams/posts to fasten the insulation. I am doing it in sections so it is doable, just time consuming.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> I got a response from Ellie @ Smithy (DTM Sales). The SS694 is the part # for that set screw and they have plenty in stock. Cost is $.75 each if you cannot find anywhere else or need to order other stuff from DTM. I also received the order from DTM for parts. Of the remaining 4 torsion springs for raising/lowering the unit into vertical, I ordered 2. Those things are HEAVY! I figured if one does break (as evidenced by past postings), they will be hard to find. After Thanksgiving, I will have 2 Fox and 1 Smithy in my shop so odds are at some point I might need one. But also am expanding repair to include SuperShop and other brands, not just Shopsmith.
> I also was measuring wobble on some sanding discs for Cyeks and my run-out on my Fox is .0015" so not bad. The old greenie Shopsmith quill I sacrificed has too much wobble and can see it when it turns. I got some 5/8" drill rod (oil quenched) and cut some spindles and ground/filed a tapered flat and it still measured .0015" so am happy. I am reluctant to measure the Smithy cause I think it will be a problem. It has a grinding/cruchy noise when it turns. Currently it is setup as a permanent drill press and eventually will have to deal with it but that will be a tear-down and replace bearings etc. I do not have time for that right now. My major project is adding more insulation to my shop. It is a metal building and had some "minimal" stuff (basically bubble-wrap with house wrap in one side and silver foil on other- patetic to say the least. I am adding a layer of insulation inside to make an envelope and isolate the metal beams from radiating the heat inside. R-22 in ceiling and R-17 for walls. It is a HUGE project cause wood purloins need to be installed between the metal beams/posts to fasten the insulation. I am doing it in sections so it is doable, just time consuming.
> 
> - DantheToolman


Hi Dan,

Thanks for the info.

Did Ellie provide you with a list of items they still have in stock for the Supershop? Also, are you dealing with Smithy by phone or email? If email, what's here email address?

Thanks


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> Hi Dan,
> 
> Thanks for the info.
> 
> ...


George Stiles had put a post in this and the Yahoo SuperShop forums about parts and how to contact but here it is…...



> I have been in conversation with the owners Smithy, also known as DMT.
> 
> Smithy has a limited supply of parts for the Smithy SuperShop that they will make available for users to purchase with the following conditions:
> 1) as is, no returns
> ...


DMT Sales ([email protected])
I spoke first by phone, then email. She was great to work with.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Good deal on the parts. Glad you got some.

Don't let replacing the bearings be a stumbling block. On the Fox it's a 30 minute chore if I'm loafing. One set screw, two snap rings, a rag and some assembly grease. On the Fox, the quill is held from leaving the headstock by a set screw in the top of the (horizontal) headstock. Removie the screw stop and the quill can be extended via the handles until the rack and pinion disengage. Hold onto the handle FIRMLY because if it snaps back it might leave a mark. After the rack is disengaged, count the turns to relieve the spring retraction tension. Slide the quill the rest of the way out and remove the snap ring on the open end. That will expose the bearing and when that is removed, the other snap ring and bearing will be exposed. Rinse and repeat. You know the drill for reassembly. I did not need a bearing extractor as the fit was just perfect. I've never had to replace any other bearings yet, so good luck. The two bearings were identical and replacements were obtained at auto supply.

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> Good deal on the parts. Glad you got some.
> 
> Don t let replacing the bearings be a stumbling block. On the Fox it s a 30 minute chore if I m loafing. One set screw, two snap rings, a rag and some assembly grease. On the Fox, the quill is held from leaving the headstock by a set screw in the top of the (horizontal) headstock. Removie the screw stop and the quill can be extended via the handles until the rack and pinion disengage. Hold onto the handle FIRMLY because if it snaps back it might leave a mark. After the rack is disengaged, count the turns to relieve the spring retraction tension. Slide the quill the rest of the way out and remove the snap ring on the open end. That will expose the bearing and when that is removed, the other snap ring and bearing will be exposed. Rinse and repeat. You know the drill for reassembly. I did not need a bearing extractor as the fit was just perfect. I ve never had to replace any other bearings yet, so good luck. The two bearings were identical and replacements were obtained at auto supply.
> 
> ...


Thanks Dan K but it is not the work but time. I have been rebuilding Shopsmiths for over 17 years so know bearing replacement well. It does look easier on SuperShop and based on your description is. But putting the how-to here for everybody is a good exercise in case someone else needs to replace. I will get to it after I clear out some other projects in the works. But your expertise is definitely valued. Dan


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> I ve gotten a lot of great info from this thread, thanks all for contributing. Here s a couple small things I ve done on my SuperShop.
> 
> I added a big on/off paddle switch and just Gooped it to the front of the machine. I looked around for a better place to integrate the switch but this was just the easiest and most accessible in both horizontal and vertical use.
> 
> ...


Chris, I like the on-off switch and banjo. Regarding the switch, a couple of weeks ago I was turning an item to an exact diameter that required frequently shutting off and turning on the Supershop by way of the key switch, which really got to be a pain after a while. Your posting of the switch reminded me that a few years ago I made a couple of switches out of rocker-type light switches and an extension cord. Installed the rocker switch in a metal outlet box and attached a magnet from harbor freight to the back of the box so it could be attached remotely to something steel. For non-steel items like the Supershop head, I got a couple of blank switch plate covers for the boxes and now I have an on-off switch mounted similarly to your set-up. I used hot melt glue to attach the switch plate cover to the head of the Supershop. No pictures, but can take some if anyone is interested.

Regarding the banjo, I think I'm going to make one of those as it sure looks more convenient for making adjustments to the tool rest. It also will have less wear on the metal parts than tightening a set screw that digs into the metal in order to lock the toolpost every time you make an adjustment. After a while those small dings from the setscrew make precise settings more difficult.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Re turning the Supershop on and off frequently. Long ago I ran into that "problem" and finally decided it was time and machine cost effective to simply reduce the RPM to zero by running a finger alongside the control knob. If your circuits are not adjusted properly so that the rheostat doesn't stop the spindle, then a bit of tweaking is in order. It seems to be as quick if not quicker and the switch doesn't take a beating. And it's compatible with the principle of zeroing out the speed control at every stop.

Re: problem of set screws deforming the shaft they are supposed to lock. If a short slug of brass or steel rod the same diameter as the ID of the set screw hole is inserted under the set screw, the lock will be as effective without scarring. This does not work if the set screw is in a relatively thin wall.

The Delta banjo does not seem to distort the tool rest posts because the "set screw" is a 5/8" diameter fine thread screw that pushes the post against two opposing flat surfaces about 120° to each other inside the banjo hole. This configuration requires very little set screw pressure to hold very securely. Tormek uses (and brags about) the same principle on their jigs. But for wood, you have opted for the best solution, IMHO. Slick work.

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Re turning the Supershop on and off frequently. Long ago I ran into that "problem" and finally decided it was time and machine cost effective to simply reduce the RPM to zero by running a finger alongside the control knob. If your circuits are not adjusted properly so that the rheostat doesn t stop the spindle, then a bit of tweaking is in order. It seems to be as quick if not quicker and the switch doesn t take a beating. And it s compatible with the principle of zeroing out the speed control at every stop.
> 
> Re: problem of set screws deforming the shaft they are supposed to lock. If a short slug of brass or steel rod the same diameter as the ID of the set screw hole is inserted under the set screw, the lock will be as effective without scarring. This does not work if the set screw is in a relatively thin wall.
> 
> ...


Hi Dan,

Regarding the setscrew damaging the contact surface, I believe the Shopsmith I bought new in 1980 used setscrews with brass inserts in the tool post in order to avoid damage. The newer ones don't seem to use them. At one time I had though about inserting brass tips in some setscrews, even bought a coupling nut to house the setscrews so they could be held securely in a three-jaw chuck while drilling for the brass inserts, but never got around to it. Someday, perhaps.

I like the rocker switch I hooked up. It's so convenient when using the lathe. Using the speed dial as you suggest also beats the key switch.


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

Forgive me guys for taking this conversation back quite a ways. I'm super disappointed in my lathe situation, those of you that were following along know I've done quite a lot including a really cool adaptation of a Delta banjo. The only reasonably easy way I could attach a Nova Chuck to this machine was using the shopsmith adaption. This has turned out to be a failure. I commented a while ago about my run out, and really there's no doubt that it's because of the 5/8 drill rod not having a perfect set with the Chuck adapter.

The run out is enough that I'm not able to do any Precision work. Twofold question, has there been any further development on an attaching a Chuck directly? And does anybody who's done the shopsmith adaption have any 5/8 drill rod that fits the PSI shopsmith adapter perfectly? I'll gladly pay for a piece of it if you do. I guess I could just try ordering a different piece of drill rod, but if someone has one that's a perfect fit that would be better. Or any other ideas to go from an R8 collet to one by eight threads would be awesome.


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

HOLD UP!

I stopped at Fastenall on a whim and they had a 5/8 rod that was REALLY tight on my adapter. As in PERFECT.

Took it home, lopped off a piece, put it in the collet…nope. 3-4 thou rounout at the end. 2ish up against the collet. Machine, as it was before…less than 1.

Got me to thinking…I can't rally measure the collet. Could it be untrue? Never dawned on me.

I got the R-8 collet in 5/8" off Amazon. $10.99. Made by CSLU. Here it is:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MUS6864/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Any thoughts on buying a better one…think it could be the problem? No…I probably can't afford the best. But if it was returnable, I'd spend 20-30 for sure.

Thanks for input.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

When you measure the runout on the spindle, where do you put the indicator? I'd check the surface of the taper the collet pulls tight against. And it wouldn't hurt to inspect the inside of the spindle cavity for some defect on the taper, a ding or something pressed into the wall etc.

DanK


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Gordo, if you go back to post #198 you remember that Ted had a machinist cut 1×8 threads on an R8-MT4 adapter. I had an R8 custom fitted to my Nova native threads and it works very well. CNC people can do it cheaply enough I think.

DanK


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

> When you measure the runout on the spindle, where do you put the indicator? I d check the surface of the taper the collet pulls tight against. And it wouldn t hurt to inspect the inside of the spindle cavity for some defect on the taper, a ding or something pressed into the wall etc.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Thanks Dan, Good thoughts. Heading out to do that right now!

By spindle, do you mean on the actual Super Shop? If so, I put the dial indicator on the part with the threads, next to the threads. Does that make sense?


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

Well….The inside of the R8 taper is fine, no more runnout than the rest of the machine. Looking for interference, I did find a pretty good size piece of machining debris inside the 5/8 R8 collet. Unfortunately, removing it didn't help. I think I'll try another R8 collet.

Dan, I did remember Ted's setup. But if you read it, the new adapter had more runout than the drill rod-shop smith adapter. That's why I went this way. I called a local shop, he said he wouldn't set up a job for less than $200. I didn't call any others.


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

OK, so re-re-reading….Ted has the same runnout as I do. 5 thous or so. Actually, I can get it below 3 rotating the rod in the collet. Maybe it's not a problem…it just seems really bad on the lathe. Hmmmm….maybe I just don't know what I'm doing lol


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Well, expectations may be relative to history. A machinist will consider 0.005" runout to be unacceptable, but any woodworker would be excited about that accuracy, especially on a 10" saw blade.

I agree that the Shops could be better than that at the spindle. I've never paid that much attention to it for lathe work because on wood turning, consistency is all that matters until you go to reverse the part. Then it will wobble until trued up again. A separation of 0.005" between axes surely can't matter much on most wood turnings where the smallest dimension is usually greater than 0.125". Even if one is fitting lids, wood moves much more than 0.005" so the tolerance thing is a ghost IMHO. You can feel it but you can't take a picture of it.

An awful lot of really fine woodwork was/is done on machines of much less finess. Good luck.

DanK


----------



## GordoB (Jul 13, 2019)

You can feel it but you can't take a picture of it.

That's a take-away I'll remember.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

I'm with Dan K on how significant or insignificant a few thousands of an inch are when it comes to turning on a wood lathe. If, however, you need better accuracy, about the only way to get it is with a four-jaw independent (not a scroll chuck like the Nova) where you adjust each jaw independently. Even on a quality metal lathe and a quality chuck you'll get a few thousands runout with a scroll chuck. Collets should be better, but this all depends on the accuracy of the spindle bore. If you want a good measurement of the spindle bore, you'll need a dial "test" indicator


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

I was reviewing past posts and see I put an email no longer active 
Work email is [email protected] <-no> for sale once I sharpen the blades and reset them. It is same as the jointer from SuperShop except a different color.


----------



## tobor (Sep 28, 2019)

Greetings to the group. I'm new here and not sure if this is the correct place to list a machine for sale or not but I figure that I'll be told if it isn't! I have a Super Shop for sale that I purchased new and have used very sparingly over the years - total hours of use would be well under 50. It has been great for what I have used it for but I have recently moved and have no room to set anything up in my new place ergo this posting. I don't have the bandsaw or belt sander - mainly the machine on wheels, drill chuck, collets and wood turning tool rest and cover and the cover has been the most used accessory! I'm asking $650 for what I have and can post some pictures or email them if this is the correct location to post. Thanks for looking and keep up the good work - some really nice shops, projects and modifications to check out in this group!


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Sure, you can post pictures here with the listing. There is another forum specifically for buying and selling and I recommend you post it there, too, or at least a link to this posting. Good pictures can make or break a deal, so take a good one that shows the whole tool, another showing the accessories it comes with. A detail of the name plate and the spindle nose will tell all. Some hint re: location is necessary unless you are willing to ship or deliver it!

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Tobor,
The important things are location, and as Dan K said good pictures. I am curious if it is a Fox or Smithy. For what I have seen them sell for and purchased, you might be a little on the high side but the little use should keep the value up. I traded a Shopsmith headstock I had refurbished for my first Fox (about a $350 equivalent value) and it was missing parts. The 2nd was a Smithy with bandsaw & jointer I picked up on a road trip in WI west of Milwaukee for $550. The 3rd was an EBay auction for a Fox for $240. It is mostly there and fills in some of the parts I was missing on the first Fox. Interestingly enough even the Fox machines had some differences- little things like the table throat plates screws were different and not interchangeable. Please post the pictures and location. 
Thanks, Dan-the-Toolman


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> I was reviewing past posts and see I put an email no longer active
> Work email is [email protected] for sale once I sharpen the blades and reset them. It is same as the jointer from SuperShop except a different color.
> 
> - DantheToolman


Hmmm not sure what happened to this post but much of what I wrote is missing. 
My current personal email is [email protected] I am now officially retired. 
The jointer comment is about a Shopsmith/SuperShop compatible 6" jointer currently mounted on a Shopsmith stand with a 1 1/2 HP motor. It is a WoodMaster brand- a Shopsmith knockoff. I replaced it with an 8" Jet with a 66" long bed. I also have acquired a small stock of parts for the SuperShop from DTM (the makers of the SMithy version). I have been repairing Shopsmith tools for over 17 years and using them over 40.I am retooling my shop for the 3 SuperShop tools I aquired. I love them for the lathe but still limited as a saw but I have a table saw for that as well as a 12" DeWalt slider miter. I am also adding insulation to my shop so it is a mess but worth it when complete. My shop building is a metal structure and studs are not 4' between so it is a lot of extra work. I am 1/2 complete and feel a difference already. Nice to see this forum is still alive.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

DT, would you happen to have a lateral feed gear motor for a Fox? I have one that works, but a few of the teeth on the last reduction gear stripped off when I carelessly let it hit an immovable object. On all the previous ones I had, the motor would stall, but this gear was cast or pressed and a good deal more fragile. The company that made the motor is in St. Louis MO and they told me they could not supply a part that would work. I have the capability to machine the gear if I can determine the right cutter to get. Cannot seem to determine the necessary pitch diameter even with the full root diameter and OD. ??? My hillbilly engineering degree did not cover gear machining. 
The major diameter (OD) is .665 in and the minor (root) diameter seems to be .455 or .456. Any help would be appreciated.

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Dan K- I do not have such a part. I did buy the torsion spring and some quill springs and some brake pads. I am not sure if DTM might still have the gears or not. Since it is carriage part I think Fox & Smithy are the same since I believe a carriage motor and parts can be moved from a Fox to a Smithy. My Smithy does not have a carriage motor but both my Fox machines do. The holes and mounts seem to be the same between Fox & Smithy. I suggest calling Ellie at DTM and check. She is great to work with. Dan T


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks for the tip, DT. I'll check but I'm not holding out much hope because the gear is internal to the gear motor and not really a SS part.

I'm still thinking of it as a machining challenge….

DanK


----------



## lahola1 (Jan 30, 2020)

HI; I'm new to this forum and the supershop thread. I recently got a Smithy Supershop an find it to be a very sturdy and robust machine. I stumbled onto this thread and by reading it thru have learned alot about it. One thing I find lacking on it is a fine depth adjustment (i e taking sucessive .005" deep cuts when milling steel.
How do some of you work this problem?

P S. I also have an old Shopsmith mark VII. I think that it was a great improvement compared to the mark V.

thanks, lenny a.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Welcome, lahola1.

How your feeding problem is handled may well depend on how you set up to do it. Can you post a photo? It will help us give you better advice perhaps.

When you are machining on any machine w/o a digital readout, a dial indicator is your friend. It really isn't important that one take EXACTLY equal amounts when milling to a target, so the question is usually moot. The important thing to know is when you reach the target. But a dial indicator can help with both.

If you are familiar with machinist equipment, you may remember that many use a worm gear feed to advance the quill for milling. A clever machinist could rig up such a thing on one end of the quill shaft. Such a gizmo might also be rigged on the shaft of the carriage "crank". Tony Fox used the lateral feed of his version of the SuperShop to advance the milling table into the cut, like some Bridgeports. That feature isn't available on the clones, but all the mounting stuff is there if you care to take advantage of it. That would require some scarce parts. You might be able to rig a screw or hydraulic jack on the tail stock pins to advance the carriage upwards by small increments into the milling cut.

DanK


----------



## tobor (Sep 28, 2019)

Greetings again and a big thanks to Dan K. and DantheToolman for the info and advice to help me post my machine on this site. The location is about ten miles into Illinois from St Louis. The photos will show most of what is included - there will be more collets when I find the other box (just moved). I also have an original Super Shop cover for the machine that does a good job and looks good too! I'm the original owner and don't have many hours of use on the SuperShop and the asking price is $650 or I would consider serious offers. Thanks for looking and I'll try to answer any questions that may come up.






















































I also have some additional sanding discs for the wheel that would be in the other box when located….


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

That is a nice looking machine and the price seems right to me, given the condition. Hope you can sell it soon enough.

DanK


----------



## cyeks (Jul 24, 2019)

If I might add to tobor's SuperShop listing: I am selling my SuperShop bandsaw.

I am located in St. Louis (10 miles from him) so if someone is picking up tobor's SuperShop and they would like the bandsaw attachment, let me know. I do have the coupler needed to connect to the SuperShop. Asking $80.

I think it was pointed out earlier in this thread that one advantage of connecting the bandsaw to the SuperShop is the variable speed so it can be used on soft metals.

Additional pics available upon request.


----------



## lahola1 (Jan 30, 2020)

hi dan k,
yes I do use an indicator but trying to lock the quill down it feels like it's clamping onto rubber. I lock it; the handle moves a little; lock it tighter till finally it doesn't move anymore. maybe I better look inside more to see if something is amiss.
Your jack under the carriage is a good idea but I thing I found a better one.
There is a 3/8-16 threaded hole on the side of the carriage. I screwed a long 3/8-16 bolt with a metal tab welded onto it into the 3/8-16 hole; set the headstock gently down on it; setup my mill bit on my work.
Then after every pass I unlock the headstock; turn my bolt 1/8 turn and lock the headstock down again and continue milling (each thread on the 3/8-16 bolt is about .062" so 1/8 turn is about .008"}.
I haven't tried milling yet but my test setup looked good.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

The quill lock turns a threaded taper into it's mate until friction overcomes movement. If alignment or grease is an issue, then it goes wonky. (I like that word….wonky wonky). Pop the cover plate off the center of the quill advancing handles and see if the nut under it is loose. There's a nut front and back on mine that determine lateral travel limits.

That's a great idea re: the bolt. See? Ideas are stimulated by questions and suggestions. Do be careful about the headstock falling on it…That aluminum shell the bolt goes through is kinda brittle and a bit thin to withstand a fall. If you were to put a 1/2" plate over the area to augment the strength of the aluminum wall that would be an additional place to mount a mag base dial indicator following the movement of the headstock up and down.

You may also want to consider a big angle plate secured to the T-slots instead of the aluminum saw table. That table has a LOT of flex in it when pressured. I don't trust it for milling. I mount the angle plate and then put the X-Y milling table on that. Solid as any Bridgeport.

DanK


----------



## lahola1 (Jan 30, 2020)

hi dan k,
great tips on strengthening up my table and bolt system for milling and I'll do more investigating on the quill lock.

thanks, lenny a.


----------



## cyeks (Jul 24, 2019)

Quick question: can someone tell me the diameter of the quill on the Supershop? I think it's 3" but I'm not home to check it. Thank you.


----------



## lahola1 (Jan 30, 2020)

yes, the quill is 3".


----------



## whitefishblues (Sep 4, 2019)

Hi all, I have a Smithy Supershop (the beige version). I also picked up a Total Shop with the 6" jointer, bandsaw, and belt sander. I'm trying to decide whether to keep the Total Shop or not (I am keeping the SPTs). Two questions…

1. If an SPT is mounted on the left side, can the SuperShop be raised to drill press mode, or does the SPT get in the way?

2. Does anyone have a PTO Adapter (to run the jointer off the lower PTO) and/or a Shopsmith SPT Mount Adapter they would be willing to sell me?

Thanks!


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> Hi all, I have a Smithy Supershop (the beige version). I also picked up a Total Shop with the 6" jointer, bandsaw, and belt sander. I m trying to decide whether to keep the Total Shop or not (I am keeping the SPTs). Two questions…
> 
> 1. If an SPT is mounted on the left side, can the SuperShop be raised to drill press mode, or does the SPT get in the way?
> 
> ...


You are starting to accumulate these things- it is a disease! SSx3 and myself know this disease well- we each have 3 mmachines. I also have refurbished/repaired Shopsmith tools for over 17 years and used them over 40. I do happen to have a drive hub for SuperShop for the jointer as well as a mount kit- the legs are shorter than the bandsaw & beltsander. I have an 8" Jet jointer so do not need these and am willing to part with them. Also can give other ideas for mixing Shopsmith & SuperShop tools since I do it all the time. I have most Shopsmith hubs and couplers as well as some less expensive options for driving accessory tools. You could also call DMT and see what they have and Ellie is great to work with.

I still run 2 mini-Mark Vs for Shopsmith tools but use the SuperShop now for most larger things- especially lathe and drill press. I am selling the "Sammy Sosa double Shopsmith lathe" and some other Shopsmith items since aquiring the 3 SuperShops. 1 Smithy and 2 Fox machines- 1 has the reverse switch and both have motorized carriages. 
Send an email to [email protected] and we can take it from there. Thanks, Dan


----------



## whitefishblues (Sep 4, 2019)

Thanks both! Wow…I thought I had it bad. Just two Shopsmiths, a Total Shop, and a Super Shop on my end. And yet I still look online every day in case there's another one that needs a new home. My Super Shop has the motorized carriage too. It has mostly stayed in drill press mode since I got it…the rack & pinion design is so nice for that. But I'd like to make better use of it and maybe let one of the others go.

On the other hand, there's another Super Shop a few hours from me and it's calling my name…

Dan, I'll send you an email. Thanks.


----------



## lahola1 (Jan 30, 2020)

Hi all, I am also looking for the adapter for the top left splined shaft of my smithy supershop. Does anyone have the part number or picture of it so I can talk to Ellie at smithy and see if they have any?

thanks, lahola1


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

If you find the original Supershop PTO splined coupler, I'd like to know where you got it. I am pretty sure Tony Fox didn't make them but like so many other parts he bought "off the shelf" where he could. Much cheaper to use more "standard" stuff where possible.

In the mean time, Shopsmith hubs and couplers work just fine, and IIRC without modification. Shopsmith uses a four spline hub on one end and 5 splines on the other. I don't know why.

DanK


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

> Shopsmith uses a four spline hub on one end and 5 splines on the other. I don t know why.


This ensures you don't put it on backwards.

:>


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

That's funny, M77. The shaft still turns the same way… LOL! 
'
Stay tuned for another Supershop owner named Dan Herda to be joining us soon I hope. He's got questions.
Does that make four Dans here?

DanK


----------



## lahola1 (Jan 30, 2020)

yes, but how does the shopsmith hub mate up to the 1-1/2", 8 splined shaft of the supershop?


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

*Lahola1*, on the Fox Supershops, it doesn't mount to the top shaft, it mounts to the PTO shaft, just like the Shopsmiths do. On the Fox Supershops, the PTO shaft is a stubby 5/8 slotted shaft which easily receives the Shopsmith hub.

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Does that make four Dans here?
DAN STRAIGHT it does! ;+D an Hahahaha- sorry couldn't resist that one.

@lahola1-
Smithy uses an adapter with 8 spline inset to Shopsmith style hub to attach the plastic coupler to another hub mounted on tool shaft. I have one from the Smithy I purchased from Tony Rosendaal that came with jointer and bandsaw. I assumed (wrongly maybe) that Fox did a similar thing but maybe not. In recent past, someone posted the solution they did by using a threaded rod from quill out the PTO end and mounted a Shopsmith hub. Getting it all centered would be the biggest trick but looks like he solved that. I plan to do it soon as I have time. My shop adding insulation and retooling is almost done (freakin' YEAH!). Below is a picture of this rare item. I am considering sending it to a guy on EBay that prints PVC couplers for Shopsmith stuff for him to duplicate, then a pattern for the 10 spline so he can make some of them also. I have approached him before I got this part and he seemed agreeable. Let us know if Smithy still has some of these.



















Notice the hub has 5 drive splines so the Shopsmith couple would need a 4 spline on tool end which is reverse of how Shopsmith does it. Not sure why but the clones did same thing. It all still works if yo have the correct hubs and reverse the coupler.

On Shopsmiths, I also have purchased/used couplers used for hot water heating systems on the pumps. I bought 3 5/8" bores and 1 1/2" bore and the rubber inserts to cushion the starting torque. I bought 2 sets for about same as what SHopsmith charges for 1. They are also shorter. I will try to get some pictures and post but shop is a disaster until I get it back in order. ;+D an


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

In spite of being a dealer for Tony, I never had the privilege of selling attachments, nor owning one designed and built by Fox. All the Shopsmith attachments I've connected ran off the PTO shaft. That would include the jigsaw, bandsaw, jointer, and belt sander. All I really know about the attachments is that I was saving up money for the beautiful and very capable 3 wheel bandsaw Fox was developing. I only knew about prototypes and I think his factory shut down before the bandsaws could begin production. So there are twelve out there somewhere and I would consider killing for one… LOL! I cannot remember which shaft it ran from.

I've never encountered an attachment that ran off the quill shaft. I guess I've just led a sheltered life.

BTW, the newest Dan I referred to above is registered as ridjrunr.2 and it'll be a few more days before he can post.

DanK


----------



## Ridjrunr (Feb 16, 2020)

Hello, it's great to be here. I guess its good I created ridjrunr so as not to confuse with the flurry of Dan! Haha
I have a Smithy SS and a jointer. I can get the jointer mounted on the end tubes properly but the drive 4 spline on the jointer lines up with the pto on machine. ( middle shaft) Where as the spline adapter fits the upper spindle shaft (5spline). There is roughly a 5" difference.

























I believe the upper drive system is for the bandsaw which I do not have for this machine.
Any help is appreciated in figureing this out.
Maybe Danthetoolman has an answear.

Dan H.


----------



## Ridjrunr (Feb 16, 2020)

Do you happen to have a picture? Cant find anything online recently
Thank you


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)




----------



## lahola1 (Jan 30, 2020)

hi all, DT thanks for the pic. I have a call to Ellie at smithy but have not got an answer yet
My Shopsmith bandsaw would run off the quill shaft. The PTO is way too low.
BTW the PTO shaft appears to be 3/4-16 thread so yes it would need some sort of an adapter (thanks for the pic of that one too).
I'll keep you informed if/when I get some info.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Back on post #110 there's a picture of how Tony Fox adapted Shopsmith attachments to run off the PTO. The adapter has 2 posts for the head end casting (shiny caps in photo) and two holes on the dropped shelf to match the Shopsmith attachment posts.

Those dropped shelf adapters are scarce but are not hard to fabricate in wood or metal. I'll bet there's a stash of them in some storage unit somewhere. Would love to have another one.

DanK


----------



## tobor (Sep 28, 2019)

Greetings again to the group. I have done some digging and have found the other items to include with the Super Shop that I listed earlier. In addition, I met with cyeks and picked up the SS Bandsaw that he had along with the coupler and owners manual. The newly found items are the wood turning centers, the other two collets (1/4" & 1/2" - the 3/4" is in the head with the drill chuck), and the two boxes of Norton 12" dia 60 grit stick and sand. I may have used a couple of discs in the past, not sure… Once again, thanks for looking and if you need any other pics, just let me know.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

The Fox adapter has no such adjustments available. Someday I may try to fabricate one from some steel plate. 
And a similar thought re: the bandsaw, but why? The Shopsmith bandsaw is a very workable attachment. Thanks for the patent links. Interesting. The jointer one didn't make it.

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Several comments about running attachments from quill end. You can getthem mounted and if a coupler is long enough, drive them- HOWEVER_ they will be spinning in the wrong direction- UNLESS your machine has a reversing switch. My 1st Fox has one so I can drive bandsaw from quill end with a metal blade because SuperShop goes slow enough. There are 2 Shopsmith tools that can be driven off quill end and rotate properly. The old 18" jigsaw- it converts rotation to up/down so direction isn't relevant. The 6" x 48" belt sander but the drive hub has to be mounted on the aux spindle so belt spins to pull items onto the table. No one wants to try sanding with items able to be lifted from the table. he launch might be more spectacular than desired. :+O
Eventually I plan to add reverse switch to 2nd Fox and also Smithy if I can find a use for that in drill press mode since it is dedicated to drill press currently. There are plans for how to do it but I will use them and the 1st Fox as a guide to duplicate. Dan-the-Toolman.


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

@DanToolman Do you recall what switch you used? Curious about the required contact rating and style (DPDT?) and how it is wired. I'll like to add that.


----------



## Ridjrunr (Feb 16, 2020)

Merrill77, thank you for the picture. Good news is I dug deep and it was in a box of misc stuff from the SS,t- nuts and collets etc. Is there much concern to shredding those plastic coupling connectors? Now to reposition things in the shop so I can lave the jointer mounted. I'm hopefully adding an Atlas 10F lathe to the shop soon. Thanks for all input !


----------



## lahola1 (Jan 30, 2020)

HI Dan K, ref your #314 post on a PTO adapter. Great way to make an adapter. I was playing around in the shop today and I think I have an easy and cheap adapter especially if you don't have a 3/4-16 tap. I took a 1/2NPT pipe thread coupler (it has 14 TPI; very close to the 16TPI on the PTO shaft) and found I could spin it on 4 turns finger tight; 4 1/2 turns if I snug it down. This is on far enough to drill a hole thru the coupler to insert a heavy cotter pin thru the slot on the PTO shaft to lock it from unscrewing. with a 1/2 to 3/8 pipe coupler you can install a 3/8 NTP nipple which has a .670"O.D. Turn that down to .625"(5/8"); now you can attach









the shopsmith adapter to it and your in business. I have not made this yet ; just threaded the coupler on the shaft but it appears workable. I have attached a drawing; hope it's readable.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> @DanToolman Do you recall what switch you used? Curious about the required contact rating and style (DPDT?) and how it is wired. I ll like to add that.
> 
> - merrill77


My first Fox came with switch already installed. It is mounted to rear of headstock in a standard single electrical metal outlet/switch box. I am not sure of the switch cause I have not opened it yet (if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it!). I suspect probably a DPST switch since only 2 positions it moves. but to change voltage direction most likely would have to be a DP. Currently my shop is a disaster as I am adding insulation and had to move EVERYTHING! The good news (great for me) is I am almost done. I have 1 panel in last loft to install. The studs are in place to staple it to. Then only a small section by each door and the 9X9 garage door (roll up kind). When the sun hits it in the summer, by 9 the heat is radiating right into the garage bay area. I can feel a huge difference already. After it is done, I can put things back where they should be and continue the purge of the Shopsmith tools the SuperShops are replacing and get back to doing more fun stuff. Insulating a 24 X 36 shop with 10' walls and 14.5' peak has been daunting. I think I have been working on it for about 3 months or more so needless to say, I am tired of looking at it and climbing ladders and drilling into the metal supports that are almost 1/8" thick. 
As soon as I get more time, I plan to open the 1st Fox and see what is needed to add reverse switch to 2nd Fox and trace the wiring. Once I have that, I will share with the group and include parts needed and some good pictures so anyone else may duplicate it. I'll keep everyone posted.

Here is a shot of my shop from earlier this week. It looks just a bit cluttered is quite the understatement.









Anyone looking for some Shopsmith parts/pieces?
I have the big double machine lathe I am selling and a standalone drill press (very short Shopsmith base in permanent upright position), and a 6" WoodMaster jointer (just like the SuperShop jointer only different color) and eventually the 510 or will sell just the 510 upgrade for anyone with a 500 that wishes to upgrade. I also have about 9 headstocks I have been through refurbishing- 3/4 & 1 1/8 HP units. I have enough bases to make 5-6 mini Mark 5s and misc parts. I need to get rid of most of this inventory I have had around my shop. Or if anyone has a Shopsmith that needs work, that is what I do. Eventually I will tear into my SuperShops one at a time and rebuild them also so if anyone needs that, I would be able to do it. Shipping in expensive but doable.

@lahola1- nice design and looks like it will work just fine. Necessity is the mother of invention. There are many ways to do things we need to make the tools more functional. I still want to see if I can get the guy on EBay the prints Shopsmith couplers to print the SuperSHop Smithy 8 spline but also modify for the 10 spline Fox. If we have enough interest, I am sure he would give a good price. I have an 8 spline for Smithy and can send that to him along with a pattern for the 10 spline. It should be easy for him if he has a pattern. Anyone interested in one of these, please let me know so I can start tallying and ask him. I have already asked him in past but before I had the Smithy one as a pattern. Send responses to [email protected] thnx, Dan-the-Toolman


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Here's a schematic of how to wire a reversing switch into a Supershop. Not sure where I found this, but perhaps it was on the Yahoo Supershop Group that is now history. It requires using a DPDT switch, 15 Amps and shows how to wire it as well. I've never gotten









around to adding such a switch to my Supershops, but perhaps I'll get around to it someday.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

I don't know if one can see the relevant part of that drawing, so here's a closer view-


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

That's what I was thinking…thanks for the confirmation, Ted!


----------



## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

I am embarrassed to admit that I clicked on this active thread one day even though it didn't apply to me. I have a small (tiny) shop and I thought this was about a group that had big badass shops. Well I was wrong but I did learn about the Super Shop history. It makes me think back to when ShopSmith would put on demos in malls. I was a kid but I would think "man, I gotta get one of those". I guess this thread still doesn't apply to me however I did learn something. Thanks!


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

*Controlfreak* that this doesn't apply to you could be changed. We are enablers and I know where there's a Supershop for sale….

just sayin'

DanK


----------



## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

I think I saw where Super Shop is no longer in business, is this also true about shopsmith too.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Tony Fox went out of business 20 some years ago or more. The patents were picked up by Smithy (Detroit Machine Tools) and several Chinese clones were made. No more Supershops are being made….anywhere.

Shopsmith still alive, but how well it's doing I don't know.

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> I think I saw where Super Shop is no longer in business, is this also true about shopsmith too.
> 
> - controlfreak


@controlfreak
YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARK SIDE! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA <heavy>
Yes Shopsmith is still in business and their premier item is an electronic headstock that runs 250-10K RPM. They are very proud of it and even the DIY kit costs $1800+ then add S&H & tax. I have used them over 40 years to make things and repaired/refurbished Shopsmith tools over 17. I discovered SuperShops when someone brought one to my shop and traded it for a Shopsmith headstock I had rebuilt. Both products can be steep slippery slopes. 
If you have any questions about either (or anyone else for that matter), please feel free to contact me.

Shop update. I have 99% of insulation project complete and moved most of the major tools back into position so I hopefully can start having fun again in my "office". I place next to turn some more firewood into stuff. I'll listen/look closely at each piece and let it tell me what it wants to be. ;+D an


----------



## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Thanks Dan, With what I have already put into other tools I would have plenty of shop time with a new Super Shop…..as a single man.

I too am nearing the end of shop insulation but at the rate I am going I think it is time to cut out and frame the hole for the air conditioner.


----------



## Ridjrunr (Feb 16, 2020)

Are the an accessary to the Super shop?


----------



## lahola1 (Jan 30, 2020)

if they are 1-1/4" dia I think they are adapters to attach Shopsmith band saw, jointer, etc. to the end of a Shopsmith and align it to the 5/8" output shafts.


----------



## Ridjrunr (Feb 16, 2020)

Thank you, ill check dimensions tomorrow. Interesting because I never thought they would include or sell adaptors for a shopsmith.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

It was always in Supershops best interest to be able to use Shopsmith SPT (special purpose tool) attachments because it helped sell Supershops. Fox was working on making his own line of attachments, but that process never really matured. If you stumble across a Fox made SPT, know that it's very rare.

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Smithy didn't design their accessory tools like the bandsaw and jointer. They were originally manufactured as part of the TotalShop tool line which was essentially a knock off of the Shopsmith that was made in Asia and sold back in the 80s.

The TotalShop/Smithy bandsaw, while it appears similar to the Shopsmith model, has a different blade tracking mechanism. The Shopsmith uses bearings to keep the blade in place, while the Smithy/TotalShop uses the typical tilting upper wheel to track the blade. As I understand it, the patent hadn't expired on the Shopsmith bandsaw so TotalShop couldn't make an exact copy of the Shopsmith bandsaw, although they tried. Don't know why the jointer is 6" versus the 4" Shopsmith, but perhaps it was simply a marketing issue.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

*SSx3* I am not aware that any Fox machines were ever painted a dark green, prototype or other. The very first Fox machines were a desert tan color but in metalwork it showed grime too readily and looked bad quickly. So Fox changed to the silver metallic with a tri-color band. It is a custom color that is not available off the shelf. If there is a computer color matching service one might get really close, but it won't be aerosol.

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

I was lurking on Craigslist and searching for Shopsmith when this popped up
https://greenville.craigslist.org/tls/d/inman-shopsmith-woodworking-machine/7073666399.html

Gary is the seller. He has 2 Smithy machines. He plans to keep one but has one for sale along with the belt sander and jointer. It has a bunch of metal working accessories and the one he is selling has a motorized carriage. It is located about 30 miles north of Greenville SC. I am interested but mostly in the metal working tools. Gary purchased both new and added the metal working stuff. I really do not need another plus suspect he will want more than I am willing to pay (or should pay since I have 3 and don't need to irritate the bride). :+O


















The one in drill press mode is the 2nd machine (no motorized carriage). He used that since these sit next to one another.


----------



## tobor (Sep 28, 2019)

The SuperShop and accessories in posts 315 and 288 are *sold* and I'd like to thank everyone for their interest in the items and to the group in general!


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> The SuperShop and accessories in posts 315 and 288 are *sold* and I d like to thank everyone for their interest in the items and to the group in general!
> 
> - tobor


Tobor (Burt)- Thanks for update. I wish I had seen it sooner. I was the one we were swapping emails. Please make sure the man that purchased it knows about this forum. It has been a great support for these machines and idea sharing. Dan


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Smithy (Detroit Machine Tooling) installs a brushless motor for more power and high torque at low RPM on their new machines. I found this out because I had to replace the motor in my Smithy to the tune of $300. The upgrade would have cost about $900, so that didn't happen. I did also learn the importance of using the jack shaft for the lower range. With that, all will be well.

Having gotten down into the heart of the Smithy motor and controls, I realized that they are identical in appearance to to the Supershop. I haven't yet compared the mounting systems in great detail, but the Smithy mounts on a hinge pin parallel to the motor axis and the Supershop motor bolts to a plate covering the business end of the motor.

That being considered, I began to wonder if one of those new brushless wonders would benefit the Supershop. It would be interesting to see if the motor would at least fit.

*tobor* I'm glad the sale went smoothly and fairly promptly. There seems to still be a market for these wonder tools.

DanK


----------



## Ridjrunr (Feb 16, 2020)

Well Im furloughed for four weeks so ill be have some shoptime! Thats the plus. I mounted the jointer but the first thing i noticed is that it sags away from the drive!? The drive still lines up but that leaning away from the workhead just doesnt seem right. What am I missing? Also my book doesnt have any info on the jointer set up or operation at all. Whats a good rpm range to start at for hard maple.
Tia.Dan H.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> Well Im furloughed for four weeks so ill be have some shoptime! Thats the plus. I mounted the jointer but the first thing i noticed is that it sags away from the drive!? The drive still lines up but that leaning away from the workhead just doesnt seem right. What am I missing? Also my book doesnt have any info on the jointer set up or operation at all. Whats a good rpm range to start at for hard maple.
> Tia.Dan H.
> 
> - Ridjrunr


Make sure the mount lock is tightened. It is the handle that goes between the mount holes. Also make sure the screws holding the round mount bars (into SuperShop and set into jointer) are tight and not bent. The joinbter shaft may line up but if not straight, it will stress the drive line because the two shafts are not aligned in same plane. Jointer manual says 4900-5900 for speed. Also last cut take a small bit off and push evenly and slow. I think in other previous posts there is a link to the jointer manual. I have a pdf file if you email me I can send that and other manuals. This goes for anyone else as well. danima[email protected]
Hope this helps. Dan-the-Toolman


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Fox didn't include jointer instructions with the basic machine and that's all I have, so thank you for confirming my gut reaction concerning the excessive speeds mentioned. While I doubt that an explosion would occur in catastrophic failure, there are wear and power factors to consider.

The real issue for performance is not RPM but Surface Feed Per Minute (SFM) which is the linear speed of the cutting edge. It determines the chip load at a given feed rate. I do understand that running a 10" saw blade at the same speed as a 3-4" cutterhead does not result in the same SFM, or even close. That's why small diameter router bits and shaper cutters are run at the speeds they are on machines that are built for the purpose. With the high speed they can achieve a suitable chip load for the nominal feeds humans tend to use. Supershops were not built for sustaining the speeds they are capable of so I suspect a compromise was made to introduce another cutter to ease the chip load on a given cutter, resulting in less strain, less power required, and a smoother cut. The chip load on a jointer blade is notably higher than that of a saw blade, but take into consideration the leverage of the big diameter compared to the smaller diameter when considering power requirements.

With that all said, I conclude that the 4900-5900 speed is possible but not desirable or even necessary in spite of the manual. Use the lowest speed that will achieve your goal efficiently and safely. I have for years used the max RPM on the low range (~900RPM) to rip thick lumber on my Fox simply because it didn't have the power to cut at the speeds I was pushing otherwise. A custom sharpening by Forest cured that problem. YMMV

To address the major question of alignment, yes, the axis of the accessory and the power shaft axis must be not just co-planar, but must be collinear, meaning the axes must coincide with the same center line. You must make whatever adjustments are necessary to make this happen, else there will be premature failure somewhere down the road. Specific actions have been appropriately suggested, thank you DTT, but may not be all that is necessary. I know that I have a casting on one of my machines that was not mounted properly in the jig resulting in a 2° tilt where there should be none. It doesn't affect any moving parts, but I know it's there and is taken into account at setups. The solution in my case is re-machining the holes bigger, put in a sleeve and re-machine the proper hole.

So you may be facing an issue beyond simple adjustments. Do some really careful measuring to determine what you're up against.

DanK


----------



## Ridjrunr (Feb 16, 2020)

That worked well, between the tightening rod and the two set screws in the jointer casting, im within a degree of level, but the cutter head is not true to the bed, its cutting an angle and my fence is squared.
Danthetoolman, i did send you an email and appreciate the info on the jointer when you get around to sending it.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Whew! I'm glad to hear it was mostly a simple adjustment. Good call DTT.

Does it look like the cutter head might be adjusted enough? I'm thinking shims under bearing blocks. ??? One end or the other has to come apart, and if it's the high end, then careful filing is in order?

I'm gonna go over here and be quiet now because I don't have one to worry about. It has been my philosophy over the last 30 years that my work gets along just fine without a jointer. There are uncommon situations in a custom shop where squaring up something greater than 3" is a challenge in a jointerless shop that is met by hand planes. The rest of the time the expensive blade in my tablesaw earns its keep making clean and true glue joints on lengthy live edge pieces in one pass.

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> That worked well, between the tightening rod and the two set screws in the jointer casting, im within a degree of level, but the cutter head is not true to the bed, its cutting an angle and my fence is squared.
> Danthetoolman, i did send you an email and appreciate the info on the jointer when you get around to sending it.
> 
> - Ridjrunr


If you're getting an angled cut, it's likely that the cutters/knives are not parallel to the outfeed table. You can check this by using a straight edge placed on the outfeed table with part of it overhanging the cutter head. Place the straight edge on the left side of the table and then rotated the cutter head by hand. The blade/cutter should just nick the straight edge. Check this measurement with each of the blades/cutters. Then, move the straight edge to the opposite side of the table and again check how all of the blades touch the straight edge. It's likely that one or several of the blades/cutters is too high.

The fix is to adjust the blades so that they parallel with the outfeed table, or perhaps a few thousands of an inch above the table.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

As DanK just mentioned, it's possible that a bearing block/housing is misaligned. Take a look at the parts drawing in the Jointer Manual. There are lock washers under each of the two blocks/housings, one on each side of the cutter head. If one of those washers is missing or worn, you could get an angled cut. If this is the problem, perhaps a shim could fix the problem.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

*Ted724* mentioned a good thing that I forgot to mention, that of blade alignment with outfeed table.

The blade alignment with the outfeed table is more critical than the axis of the cutterhead alignment. While severe axial misalignment is not good, it is unlikely that's the only cause of a bad cut. Axial misalignment can be overcome by careful blade alignment as Ted724 describes. I would add two details that have been helpful to me. First is I would go out of my way to have jack screws under the knives to help with micro-adjustments. Secondly, using the technique Ted724 describes I would add that the straight edge should move the same amount at each position it is tested. If the sharp blade doesn't slip on the straight edge it should move the straight edge about 1/8" towards the infeed table each time a blade comes to it. So two marks 1/8" apart on the straight edge ( a 3/4" square wooden stick perhaps) will be helpful. This ensures that the cutter extends just enough above the outfeed plane (in the neighborhood of 0.001") which is needed because the cutting action compresses the fibers ever so slightly, even with fresh sharp blades.

DanK


----------



## KilnBilly777 (Feb 3, 2020)

A pdf file to access the jointer manual would be great and appreciate


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> A pdf file to access the jointer manual would be great and appreciate
> 
> - KilnBilly777


Steve, I sent you a private email asking for your email address so I can send you a PDF, as you can't upload PDF files to the forum.

For anyone interested, here's a short video showing how to check the height of your jointer cutters-


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I have so longed for a 3 wheel bandsaw attachment to the Fox SuperShop that I am contemplating building my own. If one of the prototypes happened to surface somewhere, I would be seriously tempted to do whatever it takes to get one here. I'm going to see if my friend Dick Sorenson would have any information leading to one.

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

I have used the straight edge across blades to set a 4" Shopsmith jointer once as a test. It was close but off. I bought a magnetic blade setting jig long ago when I started repairing Shopsmith tools. It works so much better. I set both sides of each blade til I hear a slight tic as I rotate blades under the jig. It gets them set perfect 99% of the time. The 1% is when I am not paying attention and is my error. Once set, I get almost zero snipe. 
DTM


----------



## Jlgonzla (Apr 6, 2020)

Does anyone have the schematics for the super shop I recently purchased one and the cables in the motor were taken out and I need to rewire it.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

The cables "to" the motor or cables "in" the motor. I'm asking because cables in the motor doesn't make sense to me. It's a DC motor and there's nothing inside but windings and magnets.

Here is a sketchy diagram of how to put a reversing switch on the main motor, but it should give you a hint about what goes where.










DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> Does anyone have the schematics for the super shop I recently purchased one and the cables in the motor were taken out and I need to rewire it.
> 
> - Jlgonzla


Fox or Smithy? In "theory" the wiring "should" be the same between machines. Reality and your mileage may differ! I have 2 Fox and 1 Smithy here currently The one Fox has a reverse switch which I intend to duplicate to the other Fox at minimum. I also have the picture Dan K posted but a bit hard to follow. I am working on getting a 3rd Fox and selling the Smithy so I will have all one kind. But we will see….......


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Just to let everyone know, I have sent a jointer drive hub (same for Smithy & Fox) and an upper shaft drive hub for a Smithy to a guy that prints Shopsmith hubs and sells on EBAY. I also gave him shaft dimensions for both machines but specifically the Fox shaft to develop a drive hub to fit the 10 spline shaft. He sells stuff very reasonable and I have purchased several SSmith hubs and they are great quality. I bought real short drive hubs and they were [email protected] He wanted the shaft until I told him the size & weight….... :+O
He said we will probably need to do some back and forth mailing to get it right then without the shaft. I didn't have any modeling clay or I could have made and impression for him. Plenty of clay in the ground here in TN, but definitely NOT modeling quality! I'll keep this forum posted on progress.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

UPDATE on progress
These are being shipped back to me for testing-


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> Cool. What type of polymer material does he use? Nylon?
> 
> - SSx3


ABS plastic I believe. I have purchased several of his couplers made for SSmith machines and like them. He does a good job and prices are reasonable. After I have contacted him about making some SuperShop stuff, we realized he is same guy that sells SSmith stuff on EBAY.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> UPDATE on progress
> These are being shipped back to me for testing-
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

*DTT* This is really good news! Thank you for the insights. I have no need for such right now, but things change. Who knows when someone might need some.

DanK


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, thanks! I have a few, but will likely buy a handful to have on hand as spares.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> UPDATE on progress
> These are being shipped back to me for testing-
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

New item available for SuperShop- Smithy & Fox. Search EBAY for eBay item number:254582456860. These are drive hubs for accessories driven off upper shaft on LEFT side of headstock. He can make 8 (Smithy) or 10 (Fox) internal spline and 4 or 5 external spline to drive either Shopsmith or SuperShop accessories. If the Mark V mounted planer would fit the SuperShop way bars and lock down, it might even be able to drive it. I am not able to test since I sold my Mark V mounted on for a ProPlaner on its own stand. He had also printed a drive hub for the jointer but I could not test it since it "disappeared" from the envelope when it reached my shop. I sent him feedback to add SuperShop to description for better ability to find during a search. 
I also picked up my 4th SuperShop yesterday from NE of Atlanta GA. I may need to consider entering rehab! It is a Fox and I plan to sell my single Smithy so all mine will be Fox machines- I like the motorized carriage. I stinketh a little that the parts are not more interchangeable between the 2 manufacturers. The table miter slots and gears/racks for table are totally different and will not interchange. Even the saw slot plates are different. Anyway, this machine mentions a SuperShop ProMaster version and lists it as having a 2 1/2 HP motor. I won't know if this one actually has it until I get it out of the back of my truck and into shop. The sales brochure even has a picture of the illusive 3 wheel bandsaw Dan K has mentioned several times before. I can see why he would like to et his hands on one (as I also would)- 10" resaw and 24.5" wide throat. It is in pretty bad condition- rusty bars but looks mostly surface with minimal to no pitting. I did plug it in and tried it. The motor tried to run but the quill did not turn. So once I get it into shop we will see how bad it is. But bringing things back to life is what I do so I'll put on my mechanical Dr garb and get to work. Updates to follow with hopefully good news. ;+D an


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Good show, *DTT*. Congratulations on the find. I didn't know Fox made a larger capacity machine called a ProMaster. If it is indeed a Fox machine, it would be the next generation. The brochure showing a picture of the bandsaw "ghost" is a hint what he was headed towards.

I would be grateful if you posted a picture (or pictures) of that saw here. I've toyed with the notion of building one from scratch, but I would need some parts from a saw table assembly. The ones I remember used the same saw table with a special insert, quadrants, and mounting posts. That means the same fence and miter gauge would work. And I'm thinking it was designed to run off the PTO shaft when mounted on the end castings.

If anyone finds one in the wild, be sure to at least post pictures of the real thing here, please! I remember seeing a picture of about 12 prototype units lined up for a promotional photo op, but I don't think they ever made it to production, You will be my hero! This is a holy grail for me. LOL!

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Proof that at least the holy grail existed.









This was in a sales brochure. I was trying to scan the entire things but computer was not co-operating so loaded the page with picture/description of saw.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

I am not sure this is an industrial version. The motor is still continuous 1 1/2 HP intermittent duty 2 HP. The brochure says the ProMaster has a 2 1/2 HP motor. This one needs some TLC but does run. The quill spring was off and it has surface rust and is very dirty. It did not have extension tubes for table. The wood is a fur - like pine and it has top then a shelf below. But the metal legs have the casters and looks exactly like the other 2 Foxes that have a metal top and metal shelf. I am in process of tearing it down and cleaning. I put a new belt on and that took care of some noise. I think just running it made some other groans/creaks stop. We will see how it goes.
I can see why Dan K would like one of the 3 wheel bandsaws. If I find one first…........ I will be drinking from the "holy grail". ;+D


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

> This was in a sales brochure. I was trying to scan the entire things but computer was not co-operating so loaded the page with picture/description of saw.


I'd be happy to scan that brochure for you…if you'd be willing to mail it to me. I'll send it back when I'm done and email the scans. And post them here, of course.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Yes, I would love to have a copy of the pictures. Please. I'm gonna show it to my Supershops and ask if they've ever seen one and could they please make one.

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> This was in a sales brochure. I was trying to scan the entire things but computer was not co-operating so loaded the page with picture/description of saw.
> 
> I d be happy to scan that brochure for you…if you d be willing to mail it to me. I ll send it back when I m done and email the scans. And post them here, of course.
> 
> - merrill77


I can scan it but ran out of time and computer I know is female- it was Miss Behaving!
;+~
Thanks for the offer though.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> DanT, why not build your own? Here is a plan for a 4 Wheel Band Saw made with readily available parts.
> Check it out.
> 
> https://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/bicycle-powered-band-saw-zmaz85mjzraw
> ...


STOP IT! I have too much in my shop already- yes I know it's my own fault! ;+D an


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Thanks but I am good. Both too expensive and way too far to drive. The last one I picked up was just over 4 hours each way and I also stopped to see a friend I used to work with at HPE. That one in Phoenix was for sale awhile back- close to 2 years- shortly after I acquired my first one. I recognize the pictures. It started at $600 then. Ya I think the rehab worked- I have plenty enough of them. ;+D an


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Not Getting emails of SuperShop postings

Not sure what's happened, but I stopped getting emails of activity here regarding the SuperShop. Last one I got was in mid March, so just thought nothing was happening here on the forum.

Anyone know how to restart getting the emails?

Was on ebay today and ran across those SuperShop drive hubs being 3D printed by a guy in Texas and came here to let everyone know about them, but then saw that Dan the Toolman has been working with the guy to refine them. Guess I'm going to have to get one for my Fox.

Thanks, Dan, for you efforts on this subject.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi *Ted724*, welcome back!

Near the bottom of the LJ page, between the "Have your say…" and the pulse section, there is a brown stripe with RSS links. You can set one of those to receive notifications of choice.

On your LJ Home page there is an "edit email settings" to pay attention to watched items. Check there to see that settings are up to date if you prefer email. Also check to see that the thread you want to follow is "watched".

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Thanks, DanK. I think I've got it straight now.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> Not Getting emails of SuperShop postings
> 
> Not sure what s happened, but I stopped getting emails of activity here regarding the SuperShop. Last one I got was in mid March, so just thought nothing was happening here on the forum.
> 
> ...


Ted724 and All-
Yes I worked with Kirk to get the drive hubs refined. I sent a Smithy drive hub (8 spines) and measurements from Fox shaft for a 10 spline hub. The prototypes he sent fit perfectly. He also sent a jointer prototype. Original had a long screw but he had not yet received his roll-pin shipment. He can print the hubs with the Shopsmith 4 spline (like Shopsmith does) or 5 spline (other manufacturers) - the 4 spline hub would need to be on accessory tool then. It is nice he can make them either way depending what is needed. For my Fox, he sent me one of each. He has been printing hubs for Shopsmith tools for some time and I had purchased some in the past and am quite happy with them. He also is printing the gear rack for the Shopsmith Mark VII. He was very easy to work with. The prototypes fit first time. Initial mount was a bit stiff but then cleared up. I suspect minor burr of plastic which went away after a couple insertions. This seems much easier option than some of the other home-made options I have seen people make. Nothing wrong with that, just tryong to provide something easy and reasonable cost to spend more time making things in the shop. 
UPDATE- I now have 3 Fox machines and a Smithy but I plan to sell the SMithy (got a buyer already - sorry). He gave me the idea and I went hunting and found the 3rd Fox about 4 hours south in GA. I decided I wanted to have all machines the same. I will set one of the Fox machines in drill press mode permanently. I had a Shopsmith like this with a very small base but the slower speed of the Fox makes it better suited for a drill press (and lathe). The last Fox has wooden 2X8 (pine) for cross shelfs not metal. The legs are still the normal metal ones. This should make it easy to make a shorter base and turn the business part 90 degrees like someone else has done and documented in forum (Merrill77 I believe did this?). Then I can add drawers in a cabinet mounted on base so my drilling stuff is in one area instead of scattered around the shop. SSX3 is trying to get me a matching Fox with wooden shelf base but it is in Long Island I believe. And besides, I think the rehab was successful (get thee behind me satan George!) ;+D)


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Yes rocket cars were Tony's passion for sure. He owned the Budweiser rocket car and fitted it with his H2O2 rocket engines and set some land speed records. I visited his office not long after he sold the car because of a nasty accident that cost a life. He told me the story of what happened. They were setting up for a speed trial and the driver and technicians at the end of the run were in radio contact. The driver asked if they were ready and when he heard "go" he punched the button. The response time was so short that the the technician who had said "no" a mile away couldn't get out of the way fast enough and he became a bug on the windshield. Tore Tony up…he wept as he told the story.

There was what looked like an aluminum thimble sitting on his desk and I asked about it. He bet me I couldn't guess what it was, so I teased him with taking up sewing or something. He laughed and told me that little thing was a 100 HP H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) rocket engine! !!! I'll never forget that.

DanK


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Here's a "you suck" kind of deal if you can get it. 









DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Here s a "you suck" kind of deal if you can get it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks like quite a deal for those Shopsmiths. It's a good thing I'm too far away from the seller to check out what he's selling; I've got more Shopsmith stuff than I can ever use.

Speaking of Shopsmith, I had my Fox Supershop set up kind of permanently in drill press mode, but thought that was a waste of a machine, so I converted a Shopsmith into a fixed drill press. It was a simple process that I saw a photo of on the internet. I had two 16" tubes left over from making a Shopsmith "shorty" and used them to replace the standard long way (or lower) tubes on the Shopsmith. Then, I rotated the headstock and carriage 180 degrees. The small auxiliary table gets used to support the standard table at the front to make a rigid set-up. Flexing could be an issue with the standard Shopsmith drill press mode, but with the support of the auxiliary table it is now quite solid. One possible issue is that a lot of the weight is now behind the vertical tubes, therefore it could be a bit tippy for the unsuspecting user. I fixed this by placing a couple of 2×4 lengths across the rods connected to the casters and placed a cement block at the front of the machine. It's quite stable now. Since I still have the full-length way tubes, I can just as easily return the Shopsmith to it's original configuration.

Hope everyone is staying safe.

Edit: I saw somewhere that galvanized fence posts (available at Lowes) are about the same diameter as the Shopsmith tubes, so someone could get a length of post and not need to cut a Shopsmith tube to make one of these drill presses.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Not Getting emails of SuperShop postings
> 
> Not sure what s happened, but I stopped getting emails of activity here regarding the SuperShop. Last one I got was in mid March, so just thought nothing was happening here on the forum.
> 
> ...


To follow up on this, I picked up a couple of items from this ebay seller making 3D drive hubs for the Shopsmith and Supershop. One was a drive hub for my Fox Supershop. It fits perfectly and now I can drive my Smithy bandsaw on he Fox using a Shopsmith Power Coupler. The Smity bandsaw fits perfectly on the Fox.

I also got one of his two-piece couplers that uses a length of 3/4" square wood to connect between the two hubs. With an 8" piece of wood between, I can now drive Shopsmith tools like the strip sander, etc., on the Smithy using the adapter I posted about a while back to mount the Shopsmith stuff on my Smithy. I no longer need to use the long piece of 5/8" threaded rod I had come up with earlier for driving them.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Good work on those adapters, Ted. At present I don't need any, but who knows what the future holds. I hope I can remember when needed!

I'm still looking for a gear replacement on the Weise motor in the lateral carriage feed. It is the last gear in the chain inside the gear motor. I guess I'll have to buckle down and machine one!

DanK


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

On the rare chance that someone somewhere knows of a Tony Fox Supershop three wheel bandsaw accessory (to his Supershop multipurpose machine), I'm posting that I am searching for one. Only a few prototypes were made and maybe they never made it to market. I've a gut feeling that they exist somewhere. Please let me know if you get a hint of where one might be. Thank you for being eyes and ears on a larger scale than I otherwise have!

I've posted this on the swap forum, too. Here as a bump.

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> On the rare chance that someone somewhere knows of a Tony Fox Supershop three wheel bandsaw accessory (to his Supershop multipurpose machine), I'm posting that I am searching for one. Only a few prototypes were made and maybe they never made it to market. I've a gut feeling that they exist somewhere. Please let me know if you get a hint of where one might be. Thank you for being eyes and ears on a larger scale than I otherwise have!
> 
> I ve posted this on the swap forum, too. Here as a bump.
> 
> ...


Oh what a quandry I would be in if I found one. How do I hide it from Dan K so he doesn't know I have one? They look amazing and why I know I would like one too. I guess I will need to find TWO! ;+D an T


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

YUP, find two, please. LOL!

I've given some thought to building one and then found that Delta made or makes a 3 wheeler. Swap out the table and fix a mount.. VOILA!

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Inca made a three wheel bandsaw some years back. These were made in Switzerland so they're of top quality. It was the Inca model 710, with about an 8 inch resaw capacity and 20 inches between the blade and frame. It's kind of unique in that the frame is on the right side of the table. Any of the Inca tools generally go for premium prices, but parts are few and far between. A French company took over Inca and has some spare parts but they're pricey and then there's shipping.

You can find the manual here:


http://imgur.com/UwHuk


----------



## EricDingeman (Jun 30, 2020)

My Father-in-law just gave me his Super Shop machine but without any accessories (i.e. no collets, no chuck, no sour drive, etc.). I can not find a model number on the machine, just a tag with the serial number 01543. Does anyone know where I can obtain attachments for this machine? I would at least like to use the lathe on it. Thanks


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Hi Eric,

Welcome to the SuperShop fold.

There are basically two versions of the Supershop, one by Fox, the inventor, the other by Smithy, which took over for Fox and had the machine build in China. There was a model sold by Harbor Freight, but that was basically the same as the Smithy. To identify the Fox version, look at the headstock and if the hole in the letter "o" in the word "shop" is the face of a fox, you have a Fox machine.

Smithy still has some parts for it's version of the SuperShop. Post 223 in this series has contact info, but there are subsequent posts that amplify that information. Note that Fox and Smithy supershops look similar, but parts are not necessarily interchangeable.

There's plenty of information in this thread regarding adapting Shopsmith items to the SuperShop. That's quite a bit of reading, but being new to SuperShop I'd recommend starting at the beginning of this thread. Just remember that there are possible safety issues when adopting what others have found workable.

As far as collets go, any R8 collets will work. Ebay and Banggood are a couple of sources for inexpensive collets. If you also need the drawbar that tightens the collets, hopefully you have a Smithy and Smithy still has one in stock. The fox and smithy drawbars are NOT the same.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I have and can build Fox drawbars if needed. As Ted pointed out, the accessories are not necessarily unique to this machine. In fact, one of the major selling points I used as a dealer for Fox was that you could go to any machine tool supplier and probably find what is needed. Lathe spurs be found just about anywhere, and they can be either straight 3/4" shank (you probably already have the 3/4" collet mounted in it's spindle) or you can buy an R-8 to MT2 adapter about $20.00.

Keep your eyes open for a Delta tool post banjo for a good price. The link is not a good price, but it's the holy grail. They have climbed beyond the $100 range, but if you are diligent you can still find bargains. They are much more versatile and stronger than the original tool post for the lathe. It's easy to adapt from whatever T slot the banjo came from to the T slot on the Supershop carriage.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> My Father-in-law just gave me his Super Shop machine but without any accessories (i.e. no collets, no chuck, no sour drive, etc.). I can not find a model number on the machine, just a tag with the serial number 01543. Does anyone know where I can obtain attachments for this machine? I would at least like to use the lathe on it. Thanks
> 
> - EricDingeman


Eric- welcome to the addiction…. errr I meant hobby of course! Here is a picture of a Fox machine- light gray in color and fox image in name as mentioned by Ted724. Smithy has a saw blade partial on lower part of logo as in 2nd picture -under SuperShop logo. Smithy machines can be several colors- as seen in 2nd photo but also seen a light gray but different shade than the Fox. 

















Fox machines have a motorized carriage but optional for Smithy. There is also now a drive hub available for Fox and Smithy machines on EBAY by stius76. He can print the correct one and option is 4 or 5 spline slot on Shopsmith style hub side. Also prints a drive hub for a jointer for lower drive hub. To mount accessory tools, an adapter plate is needed but can be made from metal stock. I also concur to read this entire forum topic as it contains a wealth of information. I have spoken to Ellie at Detroit Machine Tools (DMT) that made Smithy in the past. They do have a limited supply of parts but you need a part # from manual for her to go check. I purchased a couple tension springs, brake pads, and quill springs. It is annoying that some parts are and are not interchangeable between the different flavors of the SuperShop. Because of this I purchased a 3rd Fox and am selling the one Smithy eventually. I like the motorized carriage- plus 1st Fox has a switch to reverse direction and the others will get that modification once I have time. Many things will happen when I get time, people keep bringing me Shopsmith tools to fix and others ask me to make things and they all leave money in return. This limits the time I have to do my projects but does help keep a roof over my head so all is good! ;+D
Ask questions as you read about these machines and we can answer most likely or give opinions.









Here is an adaptation of the Shopsmith universal lathe rest on a SuperShop. The bottom plate is 35 lbs plus the SuperShop carriage and main weight of SuperShop for a stable lathe platform. I still need to work to get things smoother since there is some run-out. New bearings are a good start but again that time things. 
DISCLAIMER- these machnes can be very addicing. I now have 4 but after an intervention, I have successfully turned down 4 more since….......
DTM


----------



## Bamagr8 (Jul 22, 2020)

Hello all! Thanks for the add to the group. I have a Smithy Super Shop I bought new in (I think it was) 2000. I had good intentions (there's some road paved with those) of becoming a highly skilled Super Shop woodworker but life got in the way… Never used it much at all and only for a table saw and drill press. It sat idle in the shop for the past 19 years. Now I'm looking to get into woodturning and have had a machinist turn me a R8 arbor to 1×8 TPI to hold wood chucks and am very pleased with that end of the machine. Problem is the tailstock doesnt move and I can't get the headstock close enough to turn bowl blanks between centers. I saw Dan's custom tailstock but I'm not eager or equipped to build my own. Any advice?
I may consider selling the Super Shop to fund the purchase of a dedicated wood lathe.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Hello all! Thanks for the add to the group. I have a Smithy Super Shop I bought new in (I think it was) 2000. I had good intentions (there s some road paved with those) of becoming a highly skilled Super Shop woodworker but life got in the way… Never used it much at all and only for a table saw and drill press. It sat idle in the shop for the past 19 years. Now I m looking to get into woodturning and have had a machinist turn me a R8 arbor to 1×8 TPI to hold wood chucks and am very pleased with that end of the machine. Problem is the tailstock doesnt move and I can t get the headstock close enough to turn bowl blanks between centers. I saw Dan s custom tailstock but I m not eager or equipped to build my own. Any advice?
> I may consider selling the Super Shop to fund the purchase of a dedicated wood lathe.
> 
> - Stan Gaither


Hi Stan,

Welcome to the group.

What will help is a morse taper extension MT2 to MT2. You install the extension in your tailstock and then put your live center into the extension. The quill extension plus the morse extension should give you exactly what you're looking for. Here's an example on Amazon-https://www.amazon.com/Drill-America-2-2MT-Extension-Socket/dp/B00FXBYZC0/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=morse+taper+extension&qid=1595441158&sr=8-1


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Further to my earlier post on the morse taper extension, my extension puts the live center about 4" closer to the headstock. With quill extension and using a chuck, you can easily use the live center to support a bowl blank of up to about 12" in diameter. You're limited to this 12" because the blank would be spinning above the SuperShop carriage. For bigger bowls, this won't work,

Another issue that may be encountered is whether the tool rest, in combination with what is basically a fixed carriage, is adjustable enough for what's being turned. On the other hand, if you're simply using a live center while you're turning the outside of the blank round, then this likely wouldn't be a problem


----------



## Bamagr8 (Jul 22, 2020)

Thanks Ted724! 
I just added the morse taper extension to my cart.


----------



## Jimtodd (Jul 30, 2020)

I hope I am posting in the correct area. My Smithy Super Shop has developed an odd noise coming from the spindle area. I don't want to tear it down yet as I need a couple of ideas as to what the problem might be. Any thoughts?

Thanks


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Jimtodd, welcome. Yes we can answer most Supershop questions. Many times it's "i don't know" but that's an answer! LOL

There may be several reasons that bear looking into. First, there may be dust in dry bearings. Secondly, I've left the drawbar unattached to the R-8 collet so it floats loose and rattles. That's an easy fix. Thirdly, you may have a bearing going bad, or it's possible the bearing is spinning in its seat, neither of which is good. Fourth, the cogged belt that drives the upper spindle (I think the Smithy Supershops retained that) may be deteriorated. And finally, the DC motor can develop a harmonic rumble that transmits throughout the headstock and is hard to trace if you don't know what it is. I can change the sound or eliminate it by changing the speed. I've never figured out if it comes from a belt or loose bearing, but both of my Fox Supershops do it always at full motor RPM, even though the belt looks good and the bearings seem tight. And they didn't do it when they were new. Possibly dust in the motor or fan throwing it out of balance? Anyway, it doesn't seem serious nor does it affect operations. Nothing heats up.

"odd noise" is not really specific enough to work with and we can't share recordings so it's poke and hope. If you can scare up a stethoscope, you will find that to be your friend in locating machinery noise. Very effective. A close functional substitute is a long screwdriver with handle to the ear. It's pretty amazing what you hear that way.

Changing bearings is childs play for the most part. The owners manual is your friend. On the Fox Supershops one takes out the top setscrew and crank the spindle out with the quill feed until you can pull it free of the headstock. Count the turns and release the spring carefully. Then it's a matter of taking out snap rings and sliding the bearings off the shaft. There are two and are readily available at auto supply stores.

Good luck.

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

How timely! I just pulled bearings from quill (upper drive spindle) on the Smithy and one Fox.
Fox R24-ZZ 1 1/2" ID x 2 5/8" OD x .5626" thick (ABEC 1) RPM 9-10K SKF brand
Smithy 6008-2RS (I chose ABEC3) 40mm ID x 68mm OD x 15mm thick RPM 10K
both rated 20-120 C
these were what the ones I pulled out measured with micrometer.
There was a minor difference in Fox vs Smithy- Fox has a sleeve next to bearing partially covering the holes for snap ring which was a pain, then had to press it off before I could remove bearings. Smithy did not have that and I believe snap ring is sufficient to hold bearing in place so sleeve may not get put back on- we'll see.








Quill with right bearing still in place in quill









Spindle with both bearings removed and quill in background

Once snap ring is removed I GENTLY bounced the quill to move spindle out of quill housing. I have a 12 ton press so used it to press off the one next to collet. I also use a heat gun to expand the metal to make removal easier.
Installation is reverse. 
TIP- put the spindle in a freezer prior to trying to install inner race of bearing and GENTLY heat the inner race- don't melt grease or plastic seal on Smithy bearings! The cold contracts the spindle making it smaller and heat makes inner race slightly larger. I have even had bearings slip right on without the need to use the press. If I do need the press, it will be much easier. 
The snap rings are big and stout. My snap ring pliers had problems but using them and a small screw driver to act as a pry wedge, I was able to move around the ring to pop it out of the groove- yes it was a PITB but eventually it succumbed to the pressure (and cussin'). Time to start looking for bigger snap ring pliers. ;+D

I plan to sell the Smithy and keep the 3 Fox machines. I will make a short base and use one in drill press mode. Then other 2 are for whatever I need. Mostly interested in the lathe and the Shopsmith RingMaster I have modified to fit the SuperShops. I will eventually make a new base with space for the ring blank to go below so I can make bigger rings. If carriage is not under, theoretically I should be able to cut 17" rings (probably slightly under).









I bought a 3" bar of 1/2" SS round stock and cut it in 1/2 for 2-18" bars for carriage of RingMaster cutters to ride on. I have flat stock to make a longer indexing plate but not had time yet.


----------



## Jimtodd (Jul 30, 2020)

Thank you for the info, the issue appears to be one of the two bearings on the spindle assembly. As you are facing the headstock the bearing on the left side is sloppy as it is moved from side to side. As the machine is turned on the "knock" is noticed in all RPM ranges. If any of you remember the old Muncie "rock crusher" 4 speed transmissions it sounds just like that. I will post my progress.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Jimtodd, I'm glad you found the problem, but you said something that would indicate a possible second and simultaneous problem. I had a bandsaw that was "knocking" when power was applied. I let it go for awhile and then in a routine maintenance operation discovered the set screw holding the pulley to the lower wheel shaft was loose. Upon tightening it properly, the knock went away. Serendiipity.

DanK


----------



## Jimtodd (Jul 30, 2020)

Thanks. DanK for the info, I will look for anything additional when I get it torn down. Before I really started to dig into this issue I noticed that when I had the drill chuck installed and ran up the RPM's the drill chuck seemed to be spinning out of center, the higher the speed the worse the out of center seemed to get. I have ordered the bearings and it seems to be a simple replacement, if you have any additional ideas let me know.

v/r

Jim


----------



## CNC4FUN (Jan 23, 2019)

This is my homemade power attachment for supershop.


----------



## CNC4FUN (Jan 23, 2019)

I replaced original motor with Teknatool DVR motor.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

SuperShops and Smithy Granite machines use the same motor and I learned from Smithy that the DC motor can now be replaced with the DVR, and I toyed with the idea until I found out the price! Smithy wanted $900 for the "upgrade". I settled for replacing the burned out motor with the original type DC thinking that $300 for a lathe mill was a lot to spend. I don't see pricing on the webs. How many banks did you rob to get that done?

It's a superb concept and all SuperShops and Granite machines deserve one, but….I'm waiting for the price to fall first. Waiting paid off to get a good price on DeWalt brushless motor tools.

DanK


----------



## CNC4FUN (Jan 23, 2019)

I got it from Amazon for almost nothing.
I have been collecting points on my credit card while making all purchases and payments with the same credit card. To me this is free money that would be lost if I paid with cash or check.
Then I went on my credit card account and requested Amazon gift cards that I used to pay for "free" dvr motor. You get more value by requesting gift card then cash credit to your account.

Here is a 1.75 HP motor on Amazon right now for $490.00:

Striatech 53002 1.75 hp Variable Speed Switched Reluctance Motor, NEMA 56C Flange Mount with 1000 Base Speed https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LXEUJNC/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_i_EKmCFbCPG88GD

I don't use my machine in vertical position and here is how I mounted controller box.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

We do similar "cash retrieval" with credit card. Good idea. How does it seem to perform? How did the motor fit? I seems to be much larger diameter than the original.

Thank you for the information about availability, but right now I don't have time to deal with it.

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

That looks like an interesting setup there, CNC4FUN. Do you have any additional photos?

I took a quick look at the Striatech web site, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of info there about the workings of the control panel. Was hoping there would be an owner's manual, but didn't find one.

That price on Amazon seems reasonable, especially given what Shopsmith wants for something similar to put into one of their machines.



> I got it from Amazon for almost nothing.
> I have been collecting points on my credit card while making all purchases and payments with the same credit card. To me this is free money that would be lost if I paid with cash or check.
> Then I went on my credit card account and requested Amazon gift cards that I used to pay for "free" dvr motor. You get more value by requesting gift card then cash credit to your account.
> 
> ...


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

> SuperShops and Smithy Granite machines use the same motor and I learned from Smithy that the DC motor can now be replaced with the DVR, and I toyed with the idea until I found out the price! Smithy wanted $900 for the "upgrade". I settled for replacing the burned out motor with the original type DC thinking that $300 for a lathe mill was a lot to spend. I don t see pricing on the webs. How many banks did you rob to get that done?
> 
> It s a superb concept and all SuperShops and Granite machines deserve one, but….I m waiting for the price to fall first. Waiting paid off to get a good price on DeWalt brushless motor tools.
> 
> - Dan Krager


Digital Variable Reluctance - have one with my Shopsmith, the strangest motor I've ever seen. All I can say based on my observation, there is no comparison to the DC motor, the power band is steady from 500-10,000 rpm, unbelievable torque.. I believe they use a similar technology in the electric cars


----------



## Firebow (Sep 28, 2020)

I am currently eying one of these SuperShops available on craigslist in my area, and I had a few questions. What are the basic length, width, and height? Also is it possible to recognize what year it was made by the look, and if so what should I look for? And of course I mustn't forget, what is a good price range?


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Firebow, the size is about the size of two bicycles, 6' long, 2' wide, and about 40" high without attachments. If it is a Fox Supershop, it weighs upwards of 400 lbs. The year it was made is less relevant than who made it. Who made it is easily determined by the logo plate. If there is a fox head, it was made by Tony Fox Industries who held the original patents. If there is a partial saw blade, the parts were made in Asia and assembled here by Smithy (Detroit Machine Tools) when Tony's inventory ran out. Fox's were generally metallic silver, though the early ones were tan. Smithy's are generally tan. There are clones that were marketed outside of those two companies. Most of the parts are interchangeable, many are not, but in any case the machine was designed and built with a high percentage of off the shelf stuff still available. I've seen prices range from giveaway to over $2000 for a pristine one. Price is whatever you are willing to pay. For hobby work and light production they are worth their weight in titanium. I personally have two and love their flexibility. They perform any operation you put to them with a high measure of reliability and repeatability. It's a great tool to learn wood turning because of the low speed capability. 
Hope that's helpful.
DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

If I might add to what DanK said, make sure the machine is complete as the components may be difficult to find otherwise. I mean for the lathe, make sure that the tailstock and tool rest are there, as well as the drive spur and tailstock center (although this is easily found elsewhere). Likewise the saw table, miter gauge, and rip fence. There also should be a narrow auxiliary table as well. And then there are the upper and lower saw blade guards. Also there should be a draw bar for the R8 collet(s) and an adapter for holding the saw blade.


----------



## 71Stingray (Oct 11, 2020)

I've been lurking on this thread for a few weeks recently. Finally got through the entire thing today; wanted to see if my question was already covered. I picked up my SuperShop around 2002 or 2003, at the time I lived in NE Indiana so I drove up to Ann Arbor and picked up it up at Smithy. I added the bandsaw and the jointer when I placed the order. Was very disappointed to learn that Smithy has ceased production and support for the SuperShop system. After a move back to Texas in 2004 I discovered that the motor had crapped out. So, somewhere around 2005 or 2006 I upgraded my motor and controller to the 240V setup (I think that option came out the year after I bought mine). While in Texas, I didn't really have any room for shop space so it didn't get used for quite a while. In 2018 I moved to Ohio and now have a nice size shop and have started using the machine again. Texas was not great for the my SS, lots of rust so there has been some TLC to bring it back to life.

So two things that I've discovered need attention:
1. Tires for the bandsaw.
2. Drive link shaft

The rubber tires are completely dry rotted. The blade doesn't slip but it wanders a lot because of the deterioration.

The splines on the powerhead end of the little white driveshaft do not engage securely. I was re-sawing a 3" thick piece of wood and suddenly the drive shaft started skipping. It damaged all the splines so now I can't run the band saw.

I saw some conversation about replacements for the drive adapter but not for the shaft (the part with the spring inside). Anyone have thoughts on how to fix that? I assume that piece is a designed safety failure point.

Does anyone know where to get replacement bandsaw blades? I'll have to look but I recall they are like 67" or 69" which is an odd size.

Has anyone done a conversion from the steel blade guide blocks to ceramic blocks or roller bearings?

Looking forward to getting this thing back in prime condition.
Thanks!


----------



## 71Stingray (Oct 11, 2020)

Found another thread here that indicates the blades are 72" length.
Confirmed it on this link:
https://incamachines.com/english/72-inch-bandsaw-blades-1829mm.html

Also discovered this source for tires, but it doesn't identify the size:
https://shop.polybelt.com/2-Band-Saw-Tires-for-Smithy-SuperShop-FM73500-Free-Shipping-TFM73500X2.htm

Anyone try these tires?
When I measured the wheel diameter, I think I came up with 10 5/8". Tires appear to come in 8", 10" 12" sizes to I'm assuming the 10" will stretch to fit?


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Welcome to the addiction. You forgot to introduce yourself with- Hello, My name is 71Stingray….... I am a tool addict!
Anyway try Bandsaw Tire Warehouse and get the Blue Max poly tires. I been putting them on any bandsaw that comes through my shop. As for the coupler, There is a guy on EBay that makes several options - his EBay user name is stius76. He also prints drive hubs for both models of SuperShop= Fox & Smithy. I have some Timberwolf blades for my 18" Laguna and they ROCK> When I need more for Shopsmith & SuperShop I will get Timberwolf. I also recommend to make a hole in rear of bandsaw cover and a larger hole like a window to view and adjust blade tension without the need to pull the cover. Mine already had dust collection port. Feel free to ask whatever questions you might have. Dan


----------



## 71Stingray (Oct 11, 2020)

Hello, my name is 71Stingray … I am a tool addict!
Or so my wife tells me.
Tools are not my only weak spot.

@SSx3 and @DantheToolman, thanks for the info on the tires and blades.
I will get new tires ordered right away. *Can someone confirm that 10" are the right size?*
I didn't realize that ShopSmith used the same drive coupler. I'll check that out too. Thanks!

Next question: *Where do you source the jointer kinves?* I've only used mine a couple times 
so for the moment they are still in good shape but I'm sure I'll need to replace them at some point
and I'd like to have a set before it becomes an emergency.

Also, I see that I can't attach a PDF file to my post. I found the invoice in with my manuals.
Dated 10/23/2001. Along with the color Smithy mailer that I received that prompted me to buy it.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

As you creat a new post, look for the img icon and you should be able to add an attachment via that. I am not sure about adding a pdf though. Welcome to the club. Yes tools are not my only addiction. Old CJ Jeeps (and up to 2006 and the NEW GLADIATOR







Also my wife is another addiction I have- the most heady and sometimes most frustrating one! ;+D an


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Regarding the Bandsaw, it's listed as an 11" bandsaw, not 10". There's a seller on Ebay that lists tires for the bandsaw. Search on Ebay for "supershop bandsaw tire" and you'll find the seller.

The supershop bandsaw was somewhat of a knockoff of the Shopsmith one, but there are differences. The wheels are about an 1/8" - 3/16" smaller than those on the Shopsmith, so I don't know how well Shopsmith tires would fit the supershop. You could always contact the seller on Ebay for specifics.

I don't have the jointer, but I'd expect you could get blades from any seller of jointer blades. You just need the length, width and thickness of the blades. Shopsmith's jointer is only 4" wide and there is a taper to the thickness of the blades, which helps secure them in the cutter head. If Supershop used a similar type blade, you might have difficulty finding replacements. Hopefully, someone here on LumberJocks can give you a straight answer.


----------



## 71Stingray (Oct 11, 2020)

@Ted724 I used the "img" button thinking it would let me add an attachment to my post.
It only attaches picture objects, I got an error after it tried to upload the file.

I'll have to go pull out the jointer book and see if it gives any clue to size or type of knives.

Also, if anyone has a *4-jaw lathe chuck setup they don't need, I'm interested*.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

The SuperShop jointer blades are not tapered. I remember looking and saw several sources I believe 6" long and same thickness (not tapered) but don't remember where. Any seller should have compatible knives- there are 4. Check jointer using a long straight edge across both tables to make sure tables are as flat as possible across plane of both tables, then set knives. I use a magnetic jig and I feel from experience is more accurate than a straight edge across the blades checking movement as cutter head rotates under the straight edge. Before I updated to an 8" Jet, I also changed bearings on the one I sold- easier while you have it out of service. If you can rig up some kind of dust collection from bottom, it saves some mess. The one Shopsmith has for the 4" jointer works about the best I have seen. The one I had on SuperShop jointer also worked but not as well. One ting I did find is I was originally running the SuperShop jointer too fast- in range of SSmith jointer. The extra knife on SuperShop means run it slower. It throew less chips out the top and allowed the vacuum to collect more of the chips out the bottom at slower speeds. Check manual but I am thinking 4800 PM is recommended speed. SSmith runs mid-5000-6000.


----------



## Echo415 (Oct 30, 2020)

I've got a supershop with a stripped gear inside the powerhead for the travel turn wheel. Does anyone still have parts for these things? I've used it mainly as a drill press but now I'm starting to test it with other applications. Reading this thread has me wondering what else I can use it for.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Echo415- which brand SuperShop do you have- Fox or Smithy or one of the "knock-offs"? I believe the gearing for movement is all the same between all SuperShop models but not 100% sure. I know some gearing is different between the two main models (the gear/rack for the table up/down for instance is different and a Fox vs Smithy table are not interchangeable). Smithy still has limited quantities of some parts. Check earlier in this forum string and search for Ellie at Detroit Machine Tools (DMT). You will need the part # of the gear from parts diagrams and then call and she will go look and se if they have some left. I know I bought a select stock of some parts and have them squirreled away (like the main torsion spring for raise/lower assist- There were 4, I bought 2). Let us know which gear you need. Pictures help so might want to post a picture identifying the gear you need. Good luck with the hunt.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

I am slowly working my way through the 4 SuperShops I have changing bearings in quill and getting the last one cleaned and functional. Also adding reverse to Fox #2 & #3. Here are some pics.













































First is where I mounted DPDT switch then the switch with crossing wires, the part # and last is how I polish Shopsmith and now SuperShop bars. Reverse works perfectly. Not a neccessary feature but nice to have. 2 main purposes I added it for- when in lathe, reverse for sanding and put the big-gulp collector hood right behind to collect the fine dust. Also to mount accessory tools &SSmith and SuperShop on quill end and drive in correct direction. (The belt sander in both brands can be run from quill end by mounting the drive hub on accessory drive shaft where normally a drum sander is attached).


----------



## Echo415 (Oct 30, 2020)

> Echo415- which brand SuperShop do you have- Fox or Smithy or one of the "knock-offs"? I believe the gearing for movement is all the same between all SuperShop models but not 100% sure. I know some gearing is different between the two main models (the gear/rack for the table up/down for instance is different and a Fox vs Smithy table are not interchangeable). Smithy still has limited quantities of some parts. Check earlier in this forum string and search for Ellie at Detroit Machine Tools (DMT). You will need the part # of the gear from parts diagrams and then call and she will go look and se if they have some left. I know I bought a select stock of some parts and have them squirreled away (like the main torsion spring for raise/lower assist- There were 4, I bought 2). Let us know which gear you need. Pictures help so might want to post a picture identifying the gear you need. Good luck with the hunt.
> 
> - DantheToolman


I've got a Fox model…I'll post pictures later after I'm out of work. I have searched for a manual for this thing and all I can find is a pdf off the smithy website. Unfortunately it doesn't have the pages for the parts diagram…does anyone have a parts diagram they could send?


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I have a paper version of the Fox manual that I can scan the parts page. I'll put a link to it here when I get it up.
I'd trade a headstock gear for a tiny gear in the lateral feed motor train! LOL! I accidentally blew out the last gear in the gear motor train and still haven't found (or made) a replacement. If you want to PM me I can send the file directly.

DanK


----------



## Echo415 (Oct 30, 2020)

Pretty easy to see which gear is stripped…they are taking an ultrasonic bath right now and then I'll have a better idea of the extent of the damage.


----------



## Echo415 (Oct 30, 2020)

Clean and shiny, it's interesting to see how the small gear stripped out. It should be the same size as the gear that is laying on it's side. The larger gear actually has quite a bit of metal imbedded into it from the stripped out gear…I'll need to replace both. On the upside, I took the time to clean the carriage a little so the power feed works again.


----------



## CNC4FUN (Jan 23, 2019)

This is what I have from my Iron wood model.
I don't need it anymore and will give it away for free.


----------



## CNC4FUN (Jan 23, 2019)

This is what I have from my Iron wood model.
I don't need it anymore and will give it away for free.


----------



## Echo415 (Oct 30, 2020)

2 of those gears look like they'd work…that might be the solution if I can clean up the gear with all the imbedded metal


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Echo415, I don't think the carriage gears CNC shows are going to work for you. I have scanned the manual the part number Fox gave it is 5228-00, listed as item number 391.

The cluster you seek is similar in construction to the cluster I seek for the gear motor I stripped. Two gears are formed, the larger one bored or broached and the smaller one trimmed and pressed into the larger one. The shaft is separate part according to the parts diagram (item 390). The material seems to be a hefty version of pot metal, perhaps a sintered sort of metal, conceivably even pressed into shape. A machine shop might be able to press the smaller gear out and machine a new one. That's where I'm headed with mine as soon as I can find a gear cutter for my mill. Measurements will be available should you need them from one of my good ones.

Fox used a lot of off the shelf parts and most of those were common enough that if you can locate a supplier, you might be able to find a bucket full of them. I can get a new gear motor from the original supplier that will fit for several hundred dollars, but why spend that for a $5 part? LOL. OK I'm cheap!

DanK


----------



## Echo415 (Oct 30, 2020)

Thank you for the manual…#391 is a combination of #388 and #396 gears and there are 2 keys cut in the shaft so it is possible to use 2 individual gears as long as I can find a way to keep them from sliding on the shaft. I have found a few sites with gears that are similar and would work with a little modification. I'll measure the gears on my carriage just to be sure but I think CNC's offer will take far less modification than any other route so far. Either way, I'll make sure to post any results in case someone else needs to make the same repair later on.


----------



## CNC4FUN (Jan 23, 2019)

Here are dimensions of the gears from power feed assembly.


----------



## CNC4FUN (Jan 23, 2019)

Echo415 can you compare them to your gears?


----------



## Echo415 (Oct 30, 2020)

Well I'll go by the part numbers since my handwriting is horrible…#388 is a 20T gear with a 1.1" OD and 0.5" bore; #396 is a 40T gear with a 2.1" OD and 0.5" bore. #391 is a combination of 388 and 396 pressed together, all gears are 0.5" thick with a tolerance of +- 0.003" as I'm using calipers…I'm too lazy to get out my micrometer set.

I have found similar gears online since my last post costing anywhere from $16-$50 each…this project is not something I need to rush on so I'll keep looking or maybe hijack a friend's shop and make my own sometime this winter.


----------



## 71Stingray (Oct 11, 2020)

I picked up a set of BlueMax bandsaw tires that are sized to fit the 11" ShopSmith bandsaw. They look pretty good. Hopefully I will have time this week to get them put on. Also picked up a pair of ShopSmith drive couplers and a drive hub adapter. Getting close to being able to use the bandsaw again. Pictures to follow.


----------



## 71Stingray (Oct 11, 2020)

> I picked up a set of BlueMax bandsaw tires that are sized to fit the 11" ShopSmith bandsaw. They look pretty good. Hopefully I will have time this week to get them put on. Also picked up a pair of ShopSmith drive couplers and a drive hub adapter. Getting close to being able to use the bandsaw again. Pictures to follow.
> 
> - 71Stingray


Well. Rats. The Shopsmith band saw tire isn't quite right.
The tires are 3/4" wide. The groove on the wheel is 5/8" wide.
Emailed the ebay seller to see if there is a compatible version before I try to cut these down
to fit. If I put them on the way they are, the edge of the tire will bow up slightly.
I would expect that to cause issues with blade tracking.
Otherwise, the Blue Max tire seems like a really nice product.


----------



## 71Stingray (Oct 11, 2020)

I think a Nova G3 lathe chuck is going to be in my Christmas stocking.
I was trying to figure out how to go about getting it to mount in my R-8 collet.
Yesterday I was digging through my accessories box and discovered that I planned
ahead and bought the 8 tpi X 1 inch Delta/Jet/Nova drive adapter.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

71Stingray, you might try asking the supplier about the size of the tires for a Total Shop bandsaw, I believe that Total Shop, who was around for several years selling Asian made knockoffs of the Shopsmith machine, had to make a number of changes in their design of the bandsaw in order to avoid patent issues with Shopsmith. It also seems that Smithy just used the Total Shop design with a modified adapter to fit the Supershop.

On ebay, the BlueMax seller lists the Total Shop bandsaw as being a 10 1/2" bandsaw.



> I picked up a set of BlueMax bandsaw tires that are sized to fit the 11" ShopSmith bandsaw. They look pretty good. Hopefully I will have time this week to get them put on. Also picked up a pair of ShopSmith drive couplers and a drive hub adapter. Getting close to being able to use the bandsaw again. Pictures to follow.
> 
> - 71Stingray
> 
> ...


----------



## 71Stingray (Oct 11, 2020)

Bought these tires. Really nice, work great









https://www.ebay.com/itm/BLUE-MAX-BAND-SAW-TIRES-FOR-Smithy-Super-Shop-11-band-saw-2-Tire-Set/274579778488


----------



## JDinJAX (Dec 11, 2020)

Well a Supershop fits in a Honda Element! Found a great deal all attachments plus a smaller Magna joiner, let the fun begin….


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Enjoy that new toy! There's plenty of good information in this thread about using your Supershop. If you hadn't posted a photo of it in your Honda, I wouldn't have believed it was possible.


----------



## JDinJAX (Dec 11, 2020)

Spent some time making the PTO connection, came with 4 shopsmith connectors but needed a way to attach it, using the magna joiner now, haven't tried the big one, damn that thing is heavy


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Just an FYI for drive hubs, Stius76 sells printed hubs for jointers and I helped him develope for Fox and Smithy. Smithy had one to fit the 8 spline upper left drive but Fox never got around to it before they were out of business. I sent him the measurements and he now also prints the 10 spline for the Fox and sells for $24 on EBay I believe. He can print with 4 or 5 slots on Shopsmith coupler side. He also prints some Mark VII gear racks and the cam is available from others online. He also does Shopsmith couplers of various types. I bought one that I put a dowel of my choice length between and since my Foxes go both directions, I can drive options off quill end by using reverse. 
The 6" jointer is a monster and it and the Shopsmith 4" work very well. I got rid of my 6" Smithy and Wood Masters when I found an 8" Jet but still keep the 4" for small stuff. 
I am surprised it fit in the back of the Honda! I have had several plus accessories in the rear bed of my quad-cab Silverado and they just fit and was able to close the gate. I would be hesitant to put these in a small car due to weight and size.
Enjoy your new toy and keep all 10!


----------



## whitefishblues (Sep 4, 2019)

Hi all, I'm looking for help, or confirmation that I'm just up a creek…I bought a Smithy SuperShop last year. It didn't come with any SPTs, but then I found a Total Shop with a bandsaw, belt sander, jigsaw, and 6" jointer. The SPTs looked very similar to pictures I had seen of the SuperShop SPTs. So I bought the Total Shop. I am finally getting around to trying to put the jointer on the Super Shop:










But I don't see how it's going to work. I measure 2 5/8" from the bottom of the jointer to the center of the drive hub on the jointer:










I'll have to replicate the Shopsmith to Supershop SPT adapter, and the plate for that is 1/4" thick. If I lay that plate across the tool mount on the SuperShop, it is 2 1/4" from the top of the plate to the center of the PTO.










So the drive hub on the jointer will be 3/8" too high when I mount it. Dan, you mentioned a 6" WoodMaster. Did you ever run it with your SuperShop? Anyone else done this, either with a Total Shop or WoodMaster jointer? I think I'm just out of luck, but I'm all ears if anyone has any advice. Thanks!


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

@whitefishblues- You should aboLUTEly be able to get it working on the SuperShop. The adapter plate changes the SuperShop spacing to SSmith spacing. Then the height is set but getting jointer to proper height and locking the setscrews on the jointer to the SSmith spaced tubes. Accurate drilling is required to get the spacing front to back spot-on to have the coupler centered front to back and height also when tightening the set screws. I have a nice SSmith jointer I just took on trade I need to check out so will set it up and take some pictures that should help you including the adapter plate. Just a future thought, adding reverse will allow you to run things on quill end for more options/flexibility. Also remember the 6" jointers have 4 blades to SSmith's 3 so should be run at a slower speed on either machine. There are posts about this a little way back in time on this forum- 3600 rpm if I remember for 4 blades. the 3 balde SSmith needs to be mid-50s as I recollect. I'll be headed to shop shortly and try to get pics and post later today ot tomorrow morning when I typically do my "computer time". I worked in IT for 41 years so limit that time because I spent nuff time over those years at a keyboard.


----------



## whitefishblues (Sep 4, 2019)

I certainly understand about the limit on computer time. I convert accounting data for a living. Time in my shop is my attempt to remain civilized!

My problem is that I actually need to lower the jointer, or somehow raise the PTO on the Supershop, in order to make it work. The Total Shop jointer is taller than the Shopsmith version. Here's a Shopsmith version on a Shopsmith before it is raised:










Here's the Total Shop jointer in the same position - not raised at all:










I need to raise the Shopsmith Jointer to level it with the PTO, but the Total Shop jointer is actually already about 1/8" too high. Now when I take it to the Supershop I also have to have the mounting adapter, which has a 1/4" thick plate, so it raises the jointer up another 1/4". Thus I'm 3/8" too high.

I guess I could build a tall enough adapter to raise it level with the upper shaft, but I wonder about stability with the jointer being so heavy.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

@whitefishblues- I see the dilemma now. I connected a 4" SSmith jointer to one of the Fox SuperShops in my shop. With the Smithy adapter plate even the SSmith jointer sits slightly higher. The 6" versions from any other manufacturer as you say probably sits higher. 3/8" is quite a difference and I belive will cause some problems. I am not sure how to try to lower the jointer or raise the SuperShop. I did test the 4" SSmith one with even a little offset and there was some small vibration at slow speeds but was less noticeable at 55-5600 rpm. Here are pics
adapter plate for jointer


















adapter plate in Fox SShop









jointer mounted top view









side view showing slight misalignment









drive hubs for SuperShop from EBay sold by Stius76

















original Smithy drive hub for all manufacturers









The upper drive hub is different between Fox & Smithy machines- Smithy has 8 splines Fox has 10.
Kirk makes both and can print with 4 or 5 slots on SSmith side. Standard SSmith is 4 slots in drive hub with 5 on tool end. Some off-brand accessory tools are reversed. Also on the jointer I had, shaft was 17mm vs 5/8" in SSmith. Hope this helps and you can figure a way to make it work.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Clearly Smithy had the jointer modified to fit the Supershop, otherwise there wouldn't be a need for such an adapter plate to attach it to the machine. Perhaps someone here on LumberJocks with a Smithy-supplied jointer could photograph the underside of the machine and post the pictures and measurements in order to see what was done to make them fit.

If you end up having to use the upper drive spindle for the jointer, perhaps some sort of brace could be fabricated to help carry the added load of the 6" jointer.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

I meant to add that for a small offset (as in the Total Shop mounted to the Shopsmith) one could likely cobble together a drive mechanism using Lovejoy couplings that have a rubber spider between the metal half jaws.


----------



## whitefishblues (Sep 4, 2019)

Thanks for the replies, @Ted724 and @DantheToolman. I would be curious to see the underside of a Smithy 6" jointer if anyone has that available. But don't throw out your back to make it happen! So far my options would seem to be:

1. Remove 3/8" from the bottom of the jointer (yuck)
2. Raise the SuperShop power unit by 3/8", which I think could be accomplished by putting a 3/8" plate (plywood?) under the right-side mounting base. I'd also have to somehow raise just the "stop" on the left-side mount, so that the rails remain level. (Also yuck, but maybe less so.) 
3. Run the jointer off of the upper drive spindle with some kind of brace. (Hmmm.)
4. Fabricate an adapter that clamps to the rails, rather than using the mounting platform, which might just buy me that 3/8". (Also hmmm.)

Or maybe the answer is to keep the Total Shop around and hope to find someone willing to part with and ship a Smithy 6" jointer. It would be more satisfying to see the SuperShop logo on everything.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Back in post #252 of this thread, I posted photos of an adapter that I made to allow Shopsmith SPTs to be mounted on the Supershop. The adapter was made from plywood and a bit of hardwood, along with a Shopsmith SPT mounting bracket. Perhaps that will give you some ideas on a set-up for using the Total Shop jointer on the Supershop.

I got one of the two-piece couplers from Ebay that uses a length of 3/4" square wood to connect between the two hubs. With an 8" piece of wood between, I can drive Shopsmith tools on the Smithy. Before the two-piece couplers, I was using a long piece of 5/8" threaded rod to drive the Shopsmith stuff.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I have a casting that Fox made to adapt SS SPTs. I'll not be able to get better pics for a day or so. It offsets the SS post holes to the left and down. using stub posts in the SShop casting and SS posts in the lower set of holes. It works perfectly for the SS band saw, but I don't have the other tools.. And I used a standard 4-5 spline SS connector to drive it. I applied a SS adapter to the PTO shaft. 









This is the best picture I can find for now.

DanK


----------



## whitefishblues (Sep 4, 2019)

Well my quest to get a 6" jointer working on the SuperShop has a new chapter. I got a bonus for a bunch of work I did at my real job, and I decided that at this point in my life I have more money than time. (Based on my behavior immediately after coming to that decision, it is likely to be a temporary condition.) At the same time I found someone willing to part with a Super Shop branded Jointer, BandSaw, and Belt Sander. Said person is in Wisconsin and I'm in Oregon, so I plugged my nose and paid for UPS ground shipping to get them here. While I was waiting for those to arrive, I also happened upon an Ebay listing for the Smithy Supershop Milling Table.










I know nothing about metal work but I'm a curious guy, and I figured I might have a need for it at some point. Little did I know how soon that would be…

Today the jointer arrived and the packing (which was the original box and styrofoam, so not really blaming the seller) wasn't quite up to the challenge of the cross country trip. The handle that loosens/tightens the tilt and position of the fence broke off. The part that needs replaced seems like something that the Super Shop might be up to the task of milling.

So that brings me to my latest question, and I realize I'm posting this to a woodworking forum, but anyway…I see that there were three components to the metal-working element of these SuperShops: The milling table, tool post, and chuck. The milling table I now have. I read an earlier post about a potential chuck. That leaves the tool post. Are the T-slots on the milling table a standard sort of thing, and would an other-branded tool post work? Or do I need a Smithy tool post, maybe one that goes on one of their current metal lathes? Or do I face the daunting task of finding a SuperShop tool post?


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Here's one source for the T-slot nuts along with how to measure for the correct size-https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=5976&category= or you might want to pick up a complete clamping kit-https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_category.php?category=11

The spindle thread on the Smithy Supershop is 2 1/4" x 8 TPI and you can usually find chucks on Ebay with this thread mount. On the other hand, you never know exactly what condition they're in regardless of how they're described because the sellers aren't always machinists who know how to judge condition.

You might want to touch base with Smithy as they may still have what you need regarding a tool post and chuck for the Supershop.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

WFB, you will find an angle plate to be a useful thing. Horizontal milling is one thing, but vertical milling is another and to do that a 90° angle plate is needed. You can get adjustable angle plates, but methinks a better option is a tilting vise or even better yet a tilting indexing head. This one was $100. This shows the setup making a base plate for my Longworth chuck.










Tool posts are readily available in many different configurations. I have used two of the most popular, the square rotating post and the quick change post. Much prefer the more expensive options of the quick change setups. YMMV.

DanK
Edit: please don't ask me why I used a double chuck setup because I can't remember for the life of me….top one is a 6" Yuasa 3 jaw that Fox used to sell as accessory. Custom back plate.
PPS: me thinks it was because the index chuck didn't spread far enough.


----------



## whitefishblues (Sep 4, 2019)

Ted724 - Thanks. I'm going to compile a list tonight and call Smithy tomorrow. Another thing I have learned is that the slots on the bandsaw table are a different size than the slots on the main table, and that the miter guage for the bandsaw was an added option. In case anyone is curious, the bandsaw table is identical to the Total Shop bandsaw, so the Total Shop miter gauge fits it. Unfortunately for me, my Total Shop will be less desireable to a buyer if I can't sell the miter gauge with it, so that will be added to my Smithy wish list.

DanK - I've seen a 10-in-1 advertisement where they show the SuperShop in drill press mode with the optional Milling Table sitting on top of the main table (#9 on the ad). I can't tell how (or if) the milling table is secured onto the main table.










From what you are describing and the picture you show, it looks to me like you are not using the main table at all, and the 90 degree angle plate is bolted on using the slots on the carriage. Is that correct? Do you just use the slots on the carriage or is it fastened some other way?


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Your observation is correct….it is bolted to the slots in the carriage with "standard" machinists T slot nuts. The "main table" is just not stable enough nor strong enough for metal work. It's good for woodworking. The ad is more than a little misleading IMHO.

DanK


----------



## whitefishblues (Sep 4, 2019)

Does anyone here have a picture of the Super shop in horizontal metal turning/milling mode with whatever you use for a tool post? I like the idea of a quick-change tool post but I'm having trouble seeing how it would work. I think it would be too low if I mount it directly on the carriage, but if I set the milling table on top of the carriage and then attach the tool post to that, it seems like it's going to be too high, and the milling table will get in the way of whatever I'm working on. Again, no experience here, and I'm just trying to get a good starting point so I can play around with it. And again, my apologies for asking a metalworking question on a woodworking forum!

And if anyone has the original Smithy compound tool holder and wants to sell it, I'm interested.

Thanks!


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

I don't know how well this will show up, but it's all I have on the metalworking aspect. It was part of a SuperShop brochure that I found somewhere on the internet. Edit: the toolpost was shown elsewhere in the brochure bolted to the carriage for lathe turning.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

While you can do some milling in the horizontal, the best option is to raise the machine to vertical, apply a right angle plate and secure the xy table to it under the quill. This gives you multiple work holding options. If you have a tilting vise or rotary indexing table so much the better. I'm not where I can repost a picture I have, but I think it's here in this thread already.

For metal lathe work, you need a single Y axis table that is low to mount whatever toll post you wish to use. The Y axis movement is furnished by the carriage. Some had power feed on the carriage that helped a great deal with metal turning. I use the quick change tool posts that have a fair amount of vertical range to use.

DanK


----------



## whitefishblues (Sep 4, 2019)

Thanks guys. This was my ignorance showing…I didn't know the difference between turning and milling. I have seen your picture, Dan, and it's helpful for figuring out a vertical milling approach. I'll be getting an angle plate soon. I do have the power feed on my super shop, so I'll hunt for a single Y axis table.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Good plan WFB. It will be good to know the details before buying stuff. On my machine it's 6.5" CL of quill to top of T slot carriage. A QC tool post holds tools about 2" above its base (YMMV) so that gives you an idea of how tall your y axis table can be.

If you need xy motions for milling consider stacking two y axis tables on your angle plate in the vertical setup. That gives you options for rotary tables and indexers on the bottom one. I was pushing the weight limits on my setup pictured here. I was afraid of busting out the cast aluminum T slots on the carriage. I had maybe 300# hanging on two bolts. Next time I'll figure out how to spread the joy (strain) on the T slots

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

There is a Fox Super Shop for sale on the Richmond, Virginia, Craigslist for $500-https://richmond.craigslist.org/tls/d/midlothian-fox-super-shop/7284304989.html

Don't know anything about this machine other than what's in the ad. One of the photos shows what appears to be a Nova-style chuck, so that would be a bonus. However, the carriage motor isn't operating.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Just out of curiousity (spoken like a true addict!), I contacted the guy in the add. The carriage lock is broken. I had that happen on my first Fox also and was able to repair the part. The top flange that makes lock function snapped off. I drilled and installed metal screws to fasten it back in place. The Smithy uses a different part to actuate lock so no chance DMT might have that part. He also doesn't know if the carriage motor is broken or good. I didn't ask more questions cause I am 7+ hours each way. Having 3 Fox and 1 Smithy machine, I think I am good and the intervention may have worked!


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Awwwwww, DTT, you know you WANT it. Shoot, I have two and I want it! But I can barely fit the two I have indoors!

The carriage motor is not a deal breaker if it doesn't work since I'm discovering that whatever is broken on these machines is rather easy to fix, especially since I have machining capability, and have realized how available DC motor controls are. It also helps to have access to a retired Navy electrical engineer who considers these control boards "kindergarten stuff"!

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

@DanK- HAHAHAHA! No actually I do not want it! See the intervention is still working. (Now if it was 2 hours or less away….......). I am not worried about the carriage motor, but the lock. I know one can be made using original as a pattern but I have not progressed my metal skills to that level yet and also do not have the metal milling tools to be able to do it. I need to live long enough to acquire the stuff needed to mill metal then play around. I have 3 Fox and 1 Smithy machines so I think I need to stop at 4 and may even take one of the Foxes apart to keep for spare parts and recover floor space. I still have 4 SSmith machines also- 2 minis, my original 1983 with 1' cut off, and an old Mark VII that may become a casualty (be sold) if I cannot dream up a good reason to keep it. The double tilt I do not see as a big advantage because I have other tools that route better (these are called oddly enough- routers! But the tilt height is much shorter than I expected because the pivot is not at the end like the Mark V but further in. Oh yeah then the 8" Jet jointer and 18" Laguna bandsaw take up a bit of space too. So you can see my reluctance to fill more space when I have been so good about reducing my stable. I sold 3 of my personal SSmith machines in last 6 months. I am truly in recovery (I am sure SSx3 George will think I am lying and in denial but he has 3 so no room to be pointing fingers). <grin>
I am going to be heading North for "boy's week" at my oldest brothers lake house north of Madison WI end of April. I have always wanted to stop by and meet you and eschew the fat so to say. I would love to stop this time and make it happen and we can swap stories (and outright lies as well are always fair game!). I just checked map and it will be a long day as a road trip but think it will be worth it. I'll let you know as time closes in. The target date is April 28th. ;+D an


----------



## NoiseIntoDust (Mar 17, 2021)

I have been looking for a SuperShop for the last few months. I thought that this forum would be a good place to get a foot in the door, after referring to it several times. I saw one posted on Craigslist, and I was curious about it's metalworking capability. I'm a daytime cabinet maker, and I would like to repair and modify metal hardware. Another thought that occurred to me is that some modest machining equipment might help me to restore and repair some of the old, dilapidated equipment that I've inherited or otherwise acquired.

The machine seems so versatile that it's a wonder to me that Smithy discontinued it. My leading theory is that they discontinued it during SawStop's rise to prominence around ten years ago. There has been a lot more discussion (not to mention litigation) concerning tablesaw safety since then, it seems. The tablesaw is one of the more prominent features in the photos, and that makes the discrepancies between modern saws and its tilting-table, rear-splitter design all the more glaring. My guess is that ShopSmith is established and popular enough to somewhat circumvent this. Just a theory.

More to the point, if anyone could refer me to someone in the Southeast who has a SuperShop for sale, then I would very much appreciate it. I live near Atlanta, and I am willing to consider any drive that would total under 20 hours round trip, if the price is right. I'm expecting to pay anywhere from $500 to $2,000, depending on the condition of the machine, the included accessories and tooling, and the distance that I would be driving. If the machine is a little more than a day's drive away (round-trip), then I might still be interested.

I apologize if there is another location that is more appropriate for this post. I am very new to this site


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

NID, this is a very appropriate place to look. There is another forum might post on. We'll keep our eyes open.

I've been downsizing and find my shop extra crowded right now. I have two Fox Supershops, and could get along with one in a pinch. I even have some metal working attachments that won't get much use now that I have a Smithy Granite. I'd like to work through it for another few months before I decide for sure because two are just real handy. Since I used to be a dealer, one of my machines is sentimental having been hand built at the factory as my friend chief salesman's personal machine.

DanK


----------



## Jimtodd (Jul 30, 2020)

NID, the most you should pay is about $750 fully loaded and in pristine condition. I find them all the time on the West Coast for around $500 but negotiations are in order to lower their price. They all think they are worth a ton but they just sit and gather cobwebs. I am looking for the motorized carriage unit for mine but when I find one the owner wants me to purchase the entire unit usually loaded with rust and stripped gears. Good lunch with your endeavor.

JIM


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

NID- If you want metal working, get one with a carriage motor- Fox was standard but Smithy optional. I have 3 Fox and 1 Smithy and am 1/2 south of Knoxville TN and am considering selling one but debating because with 3 Fox machines, I have one for spare parts- ;+D. I also repair Shopsmith and other select tools- now including SuperShops depending on problem. All 3 Foxes also have reverse- I added to #2 & #3. I paid $500 for the Smithy (no carriage motor) with SuperShop bandsaw & 6" jointer. Sold jointer cause I already had one but kept bandsaw and made it metal cutting saw to go with my metal cut-off horizontal saw for light metal fabrication. I over-paid for last Fox SuperShop because it was in poor shape but I have reconditioned it and now is a good machine- paid $300 and drove 4 hours into east Georgia to get it. #1 I traded a Shopsmith rebuilt headstock for #1 missing some main parts- about $350 in value. Make sure everything operates as it should and as many parts as possible- like any extra collects. Good luck in the hunt and I am sure we will keep an eye out because it is always a good time helping someone spend their money and further their addiction.


----------



## JethrowClampett (Feb 8, 2019)

NID, I have one lightly used with jointer. $1,000.00, I can help to dismantle and load into vehicle.. This is a Smithy Super Shop. One of the last ones sold by Smithy and one of the few that is wired by Smithy for 220v. No carriage motor, comes with basic lathe fittings , sanding disk. The only reason for letting it go is I'm loaded up with Shopsmith and just about every accessories.. Some say you can get it for less, but I have no urgent need to get rid of it because its a much better dedicated bowl turning lathe than Shopsmith. Philadelphia pickup.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

There's a Super Shop listed on the Charlotte NC craigslist for $1995. Seller says it's in like new condition, but there aren't any relevant photos to determine if that's the case. It's in the Arts & Crafts listing, not the tools section.

It's way overpriced as far as I'm concerned, but the seller has an invoice showing it cost about $3500 new. It appears from the invoice it was purchased with a dust collector and bandsaw, but can't tell what else may have been included. There's a contact phone number in the listing.

I've got a Fox and a Smithy. If I were looking for one to do a bit of metalworking, I'd pick the Smithy because of it spindle thread (2 1/4" x 8 TPI) versus the Fox thread of 2" x 4 TPI Acme thread, because with the Fox you'd need a custom back plate to mount a metalworking chuck, and then you'd probably need two-one for a three-jaw and another for a four-jaw. The Smithy thread was a standard some years back for some US lathe manufacturers and you can still find chucks and faceplates on ebay and elsewhere. Also Smithy sold a metalworking toolpost/compound, making the set-up for metalworking that much easier, although it would be possible to fabricate something similar and you can always get a machine shop to make custom back plates. The motorized carriage would be beneficial depending on what you're doing.

On Craigslist, you can enter a radius of 200 miles from your zip code to check surrounding locations. Also, search for both "Super Shop" and "Supershop" because they can be listed either way, and don't limit it to the "tool" listings, but rather search "all" sections, as you wouldn't have found the one in Charlotte if you had only searched the tool section. You also can use searchtempest.com, which will search craigslists in a 500 mile or more radius and it also searches Ebay. Another place to look is facebook.com/marketplace, but I have no clue how this thing actually works. Some days it will search far and wide for things, other days only nearby locations. I don't use facebook for anything but the marketplace, so perhaps that's why I don't understand it.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Good thoughts, Ted.

I wonder what it would take to make a new spindle for the Fox with the finer threads. Perhaps the nose of the spindle could be modified to form the 2 1/4" x 8 TPI. If a new spindle was made, the changeover is fairly quick. It'd be interesting if a Smithy spindle would fit into the Fox quill. It's probably not worth it for the value enhancement, but in hobby work, is that even a consideration? LOL.

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

I don't know about the spindle itself, but the whole quill assemblies are ever so slightly different, at least according to my vernier caliper. The Fox measured 3.000 inches and the Smithy was 3.031 inches, so I'd call it 77mm. Don't know about the spindle itself, but likely it's inches to mm as well.


----------



## NoiseIntoDust (Mar 17, 2021)

I recommend considering the Smithy Midas LTD 3 in 1 Metal working machine with the free tool pak starter kit for less than $2400 plus shipping. You get support, services, training, parts, and a machine that works and has plenty of accessories you can buy.

SSX3, that is a great suggestion based on my "stated primary focus". My initial statement might have been a little bit misleading. I had ruled out the ShopSmith some time ago as a good idea that did not quite suit my needs. I later watched a Den of Tools video about ShopSmiths, and he showed a few images of modifications and repurposes of ShopSmiths. These included a conversion of a ShopSmith into a wall-mounted drill press. If I remember correctly, that might have been what led me to look at prices and postings of used ShopSmiths, which then led me to the Smithy SuperShop. Sometime in between, I had been looking at used/budget metal machining equipment (lathes and mills), and I had decided that I would not be able to pursue milling and/or machining for the foreseeable future. The learning curve, the space, the cost, and the time to actually machine parts seemed to keep growing as I did more research. I was hoping that the SuperShop would reduce the required space and cost a bit compared to other machines. I had looked into both the Midas and Granite at different times. They seem like really great machines, and Smithy's complementary tool packs are quite enticing, and set them apart from most of the competition in the small/combination machines market. That being said, I am also very interested in using the machine for woodworking. Metal machining is supplemental to that end. I have limited space, funds, and time for the foreseeable future, so combination machines are very appealing to me. A dedicated, metalworking lathe/mill would sit unused too often to warrant it's own footprint, at least for the time being.

I have trouble sourcing satisfactory hardware with satisfactory quality control both at work and for my own projects. This results in a combination of angle-grinding, drilling, and filing. A more sophisticated, efficient method would be most welcome, but, at the risk of redundancy, I have constraints for space, expense, and time. That's why it's important to me to save space, and be able to switch between woodworking and metalworking. I tend to work on my personal projects in bursts of a few hours, about twice a month. Five to ten minutes of changeover time is no big deal, because I will rarely be completing more than one step of a project in one work session.

I also have some prototyping projects in mind that require specialized alloys and applications, which take acoustic properties into consideration as well as all of the usual concerns of rigidity, ductility, corrosion, and whatnot. I would rather handle the sourcing and prototyping rather than paying a machinist who might not really understand or respect my requirements. It would be great to be able to tinker with those ideas independently, without having to pay machine shop hourly rates. Not that good machinists aren't worth their cost. I just can't afford their service regularly.

Smithy discontinued the SuperShop primarily because the rising cost of aluminum made it cost prohibitive.
I guess my extrapolations were a bit too limber. It seemed odd to me that a company would discontinue such a capable machine, so I assumed it had to do with a change in consumer's perspectives and expectations. 
If I send Smithy enough aluminum cans, do you think that they would melt them down and make a SuperShop for me at the old retail price of $3,500? That might be a long-shot…

There's a Super Shop listed on the Charlotte NC craigslist for $1995. Seller says it's in like new condition, but there aren't any relevant photos to determine if that's the case. It's in the Arts & Crafts listing, not the tools section.

Ted724, thank you for letting me know. I have seen that posting, and I emailed the seller last week. No reply. Also, I believe that I have seen those same pictures in previous, expired postings. It might be the same person renewing a post, or it might be someone "recycling" other people's images. I asked for a new picture as confirmation. I'm not driving six hours without being sure of what I'm getting. Even if it weren't at the high end of my budget.
I use the CPlus App to search for things on craigslist. I can choose different locations, so I can decide whether the distance is worth driving.

Everyone else, thank you for your replies! I'll consider your offers and advice.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

There was a phone number in that Charlotte listing, Perhaps a call will get you the information you need to make a decision.


----------



## KilnBilly777 (Feb 3, 2020)

I'm always on the outlook for smithy accessories. Steve


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

There is a Smithy Super Shop on the Chattanooga Craigslist site for $850. Comes with a bandsaw.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

There is a Supershop in Harrisburg, PA listed on Facebook Marketplace for $200. Here's the listing-https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/459787218437597/?referralSurface=messenger_lightspeed_banner&referralCode=messenger_banner-

I contacted the seller and he only has what's shown in the ad, and that amounts to only the saw table-no fence, miter gauge, or lathe accessories. The draw bar is included.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

It sold very fast! It was a gray Smithy and as you said, missing parts. Unfortunately, many parts between Fox and Smithy do NOT interchange. The tables have different teeth in the rack and the fences have different width miters and 
the quills have different threads, etc. That would have been good for spare parts or if one already had a Smithy.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

I figured it would go quickly at that price. I would have gotten it myself but just don't have room for another one. Hopefully the new owner has another Smithy, otherwise he'll have difficulty getting the missing items. I figure the motor alone was worth the asking price.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Smithy Ironwood with jointer in Cleveland, Ohio for $900. Looks pristine. Owner says bought 10 years ago and used once. See-https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/448801269541113/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

There is a Smithy Supershop listed on the Facebook marketplace for $700 in Holly, Michigan. Has bandsaw, jointer, and belt sander, plus metalworking chuck and tool post. Can be found at: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/549772016388059


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

There is a Smithy Supershop listed on Facebook Marketplace for $1750 near Cleveland, Ohio. Comes with bandsaw, jointer, and belt sander. Seems to show in photos that metalworking cross slide comes with it as well. Seems a bit expensive, but you can see at: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/388239919382432/


----------



## jmosborne24 (Sep 27, 2021)

My grandfather recently passed away and he had both the SuperShop and ShopSmith. Unfortunately, I do not have the space to keep both and was wondering if anyone knew if there is a market for selling either. I would hate for either pieces of equipment to be scrapped but I am afraid there isn't much knowledge anymore about the capability of these tools.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> My grandfather recently passed away and he had both the SuperShop and ShopSmith. Unfortunately, I do not have the space to keep both and was wondering if anyone knew if there is a market for selling either. I would hate for either pieces of equipment to be scrapped but I am afraid there isn t much knowledge anymore about the capability of these tools.
> 
> - jmosborne24


There are a lot more Shopsmith owners than Supershop, but you likely could sell either, with price depending on condition and accessories (and of course location). You could try listing both and selling whichever one gets a buyer. You can list on craigslist or facebook/marketplace for free. You could also list on Ebay with local pick-up.

On the other hand, perhaps someone here may be interested. Why not tell us where you're located and what accessories are with the Supershop. Photos always help.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Yes, there is a limited market for both machines, like Ted said, depending upon location. Urban and suburban areas are generally productive.

I finally broke down and put a reversing switch in my Fox machine and I'm glad I did. Now I'm using it to spin a 3/8 steel rod to make thread for hand screw clamps, which take LH threads on one end and RH threads on the other. At the lowest speed settings, it has enough power to spin the rod on a continuous hand held die stock feed. 7 1/2" of RH thread and 9" of LH thread opposing. The extra is for the handle. These will have 12" capacity and the jaws are made from some very interesting red oak. I found rafter cutoffs that had been tossed into a steel barrel and had been soaking in the accumulated rain water so long that they were black all the way through from the chemical reaction of tannic acid from the oak and steel from the barrel! Gonna be really pretty when oiled. London pattern handles--wish I had more darkened oak to match the jaws

DanK


----------



## TMarv (Sep 29, 2021)

I'm seeking advice: My aging brother has given me the task to find a new home for his Fox Super Shop. He bought it new in the 80's and parked in the corner of the garage about 12-15 years ago. It worked great for him. About 5 years ago he went out to check on it, turned it on and the motor quickly clicked off. He had someone look at it who agreed that the wiring had "failed" and shorted out. The insulation is brittle to the touch.
I'm not wanting to fix it so I'm wondering if I should just sell off the attachments. Or do you think there might be someone wanting to buy it to fix it and use it. I'm up in the Twin Cities area. Thanks!


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

You could try listing the entire machine and accessories on Craigslist and Facebook/Marketplace to see if there's any interest, explaining that motor and perhaps the controller are fried. I'm sure an enterprising person could mount a DC motor and controller to get it working, but exact replacement parts are not available. Smithy built Supershops in Asia for a few years after Fox stopped building them, but not many of the parts are interchangeable. Perhaps a Smithy motor would fit, but I have no idea about that. If you have accessories like the bandsaw, jointer, belt sander, they will fit both the Fox and Smithy supershops.


----------



## TMarv (Sep 29, 2021)

Ted724 thank you. I'll try a local woodworking facebook group to see if anyone is interested. Then CL.


----------



## TMarv (Sep 29, 2021)

Ted, I saw a reply of yours stating that the Super Shop is 400 lbs heavier than the Shopsmith. Do you know aboutr how heavy the Super Shop is? I may have to scrap it eventually. And, no, my brother didn't have the bandsaw, belt sander, or jointer, but he loved the disc sander! His is a Model SS20 Serial # 1551. Thank You!


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

The Supershop is not 400 pounds heavier than the Shopsmith. Rather, it's perhaps about 250 pounds heavier. Smithy listed the weight of the Supershop at 480 pounds, but I don't know if that was the shipping/gross weight of the machine or after it was set up. I believe the Shopsmith is about 220 pounds.

Why not tell us where you are located, TMarv. Perhaps someone on the list would be interested in what you have.


----------



## TMarv (Sep 29, 2021)

I'm in the Twin Cities, (MN) if anyone up here is interested Thanks for the info on weight.
I just posted it for $350 on several sites around the area. Otherwise I'll try to sell attachments and scrap the rest. Thanks again!


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Re: weight, Ted is probably right about the Smithy Supershop weight. I've never owned one. Fox Supershop was considered roughly 600 lbs shipping weight. I had to be aware of that as a Fox dealer, even though I never shipped one. Always delivered in person. That would include the crating and the extra weight of the castings and the lateral feed motor and such. The Fox castings were generally heavier until they eventually could afford to pressure cast which saved a lot of machining and made the product a bit lighter and better looking. I've never compared the weight of the sanding disc for example. Fox cast theirs in clunky aluminum and fitted it to a 4" steel face plate for arbor. Later versions of the Supershop were just a thin steel plate. Details like that add up.

Anyway, good luck with the sale. I'd be glad to help more if I were closer. Don't know how to be helpful from southern Indiana! It would break my heart to see even a Smithy scrapped. Part it out, maybe?

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

A Shopsmith weighs around 130 lbs for a basic unit. Quite a bit different than 480. I am in east TN and would take it but have noit figured how to get it. I do have a friend near the Twins. He had picked one up previously from Rockford IL. But because he now knows how heavy, he might not want to repeat the experience! I looked on CList for Fox and Supershop and Super Shop and no listings. Did you list on CList?
I repair Shopsmith and other select tools for over 20 years now and used Shopsmith tools for over 45. I replaced some with Supershops- 3 Fox and 1 Smithy. I might need to do a road trip to come get it is also a possibility. To move them I have put into vertical to relieve the tension on lift spring, then unbolt the 4 bolts on each end holding then to base. Then they can be moved. The base is easy. The rest a bit more difficult. I would like to see some pictures of it please. Feel free to email directly to [email protected] thnx, Dan


----------



## TMarv (Sep 29, 2021)

> A Shopsmith weighs around 130 lbs for a basic unit. Quite a bit different than 480. I am in east TN and would take it but have noit figured how to get it. I do have a friend near the Twins. He had picked one up previously from Rockford IL. But because he now knows how heavy, he might not want to repeat the experience! I looked on CList for Fox and Supershop and Super Shop and no listings. Did you list on CList?
> I repair Shopsmith and other select tools for over 20 years now and used Shopsmith tools for over 45. I replaced some with Supershops- 3 Fox and 1 Smithy. I might need to do a road trip to come get it is also a possibility. To move them I have put into vertical to relieve the tension on lift spring, then unbolt the 4 bolts on each end holding then to base. Then they can be moved. The base is easy. The rest a bit more difficult. I would like to see some pictures of it please. Feel free to email directly to [email protected] thnx, Dan
> 
> - Dan, I posted on several local Facebook groups including one called Minnesota Woodworking(or Woodworkers) I don't do anything on CL. And I've forgotten how Photobuckeet works, LOL. So I'll email you some photos. Thanks.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I have never disassembled a Fox Supershop to travel with it. I had a 1 ton Dodge van (think high floor) and later just a Chrysler van. I rolled the unit crosswise to the vehicle and not too close. By moving the carriage and headstock to one end, I was able to lift the light end and "twist" it into the floor of the van. Then I moved the carriage and headstock to the "high" end in the van and then I could lift the end still on the ground to almost level and it rolled easily in all the way. Retract casters and tie down. As a dealer this was my method of delivery. This method gets awkward with more than one person, but it can be done. YMMV.

DanK


----------



## UKMerlin (Oct 14, 2021)

I picked up a Supershop a few weeks ago and LOVE it!
But yesterday the main carriage stopped traversing, the hand crank just spins.
Anyone know how to open it up and fix it?
I took the hand crank bolt cover off and it is all tight and turns with the crank.
I think the intermediary gear must have somehow dropped out.

Also: Anyone got any of the optional accessories for sale?


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

UKMerlin, there is a pan on the bottom of the carriage that you'll need to remove to access the mechanism and that should give you a better idea of source of your problem. It may be as simple as a roll pin has dropped out that holds a gear in place. There are six screws around the lower edge of the carriage that you'll need to remove in order to drop the plan.

What accessories are you looking for?


----------



## UKMerlin (Oct 14, 2021)

Ted724 Many thanks, will give that a try. 
For accessories I think I would like to get any of the original options, I think they might include the band saw, a metal turning chuck, the metal turning tool platform. I don't remember off the top of my head what else there was. Not sure if the auto travel was an installable option or a base model option.


----------



## UKMerlin (Oct 14, 2021)

So it turns out that the casting housing the gears has cracked.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

If you don't have a manual for the Smithy Supershop, you can find one here-http://cncmanual.com/?s=supershop There is a separate parts listing that is available at this site as well. Smithy still has a few parts for the Supershop, so it may be worth a call to them.

Accessory tools seem hard to come by, but if you look through some of the back postings on this thread, you'll see where you can adapt some Shopsmith gear to work on the Supershop. I believe the accessory tools sold by Smithy were originally designed to fit the Shopsmith clones that were made in Asia. For the Smithy, they simply used an adaptor plate and tubes to mate with the Supershop. I've cobbled together a wooden platform that allow me to mount most Shopsmith tools (but not the jointer) to the Supershop. I posted photos of the platform in this thread.

That's a bummer with the cracked housing. Perhaps you can fix with something like JB Weld.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

After seeing the photo, I doubt if JB Weld alone would be sufficient to fix the problem. Perhaps some sort of "L" shaped bracket, held in place by screws, along with some JB Weld would fix it.


----------



## UKMerlin (Oct 14, 2021)

Ted724 I found a local welder that will come next week, I will get them to weld the crack and then put a gusset across that corner. I contacted Smithy, they do not have the specific part, but did tell me it is actually aluminium which is important to know for the welder.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Many/most Shopsmith accessory tools should be able to mount to the SuperShops using an adapter plate that bottom tubes fit the SuperShop and top tubes fit the Shopsmith tool both mounted to a plate in between. There are also drive hubs for sale on FeeBay. I helped Stius76 develope them for Fox and Smithy. Here is a current listing
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254582456860?hash=item3b464c021c:g:ZPAAAOSwXbheqIyg
copy/paste into a browser.
Someone told me a rumor that Smithy might have scrapped all the Smithy spare parts which is a shame but probably not enough demand.


----------



## whitefishblues (Sep 4, 2019)

> Someone told me a rumor that Smithy might have scrapped all the Smithy spare parts which is a shame but probably not enough demand.
> 
> - DantheToolman


I can confirm that. I spoke with a Smithy engineer a few weeks ago while looking for a few parts for an older Midas machine. I asked about Super Shop parts and he did confirm that they had purged their inventory. In the purge they even mistakenly scrapped a part for the Midas machines and were having to re-stock that. (That's how the topic came up…I had ordered that part online and it successfully went through checkout, then they called me to tell me that it was not in stock.)


----------



## UKMerlin (Oct 14, 2021)

They still have one optional tool for it, the Jointer but although they have 20 that they have never sold, they still want $400 for them and they are very heavy and would need pallet shipping.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I finally yielded to the temptation to put a reversing switch on one of my Fox machines. I'm glad I did because then I could use it to spin 3/8" rod threading for a batch of large hand screws. Both left and right hand threads are needed on the rod and it was VERY time efficient to spin the rod held firmly in a 1/2" three jaw chuck. It can't reasonably be done in one single pass because too much force is involved to hold the hand stock die holder. But by opening the split dies for first cut, closing a bit for second cut, and finishing to spec with third cut, it worked out well. 9 1/2" LH on one end and 7" RH on the other yields a big 12" capacity for the hand screws. It took about 75 seconds for each of the six passes required to finish the rod. I cut the RH first so I could spin a coupler and lock nut on the RH end to put in the chuck for spinning the LH threads without damaging the threads in the chuck.










DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> I m seeking advice: My aging brother has given me the task to find a new home for his Fox Super Shop. He bought it new in the 80 s and parked in the corner of the garage about 12-15 years ago. It worked great for him. About 5 years ago he went out to check on it, turned it on and the motor quickly clicked off. He had someone look at it who agreed that the wiring had "failed" and shorted out. The insulation is brittle to the touch.
> I m not wanting to fix it so I m wondering if I should just sell off the attachments. Or do you think there might be someone wanting to buy it to fix it and use it. I m up in the Twin Cities area. Thanks!
> 
> TMarv- I was not able to see any listing for this. Has it sold or still available? If still available, can you please send some pictures? Easiest is text to my cell 630-723-9267. Also include the attachments/accessory tools. Smithy sold a belt sander, jointer, and bandsaw if any of those are part of this. thnx!
> - TMarv


----------



## TMarv (Sep 29, 2021)

TMarv- I was not able to see any listing for this. Has it sold or still available? If still available, can you please send some pictures? Easiest is text to my cell 630-723-9267. Also include the attachments/accessory tools. Smithy sold a belt sander, jointer, and bandsaw if any of those are part of this. thnx!
- TMarv
I still have it. Will text pics to you tomorrow or Tuesday.

- DantheToolman
[/QUOTE]


----------



## UKMerlin (Oct 14, 2021)

Danthe Toolman, I would be interested in any optional accessories too


----------



## TMarv (Sep 29, 2021)

He never added accessories and only used it for woodworking. Table saw, drill, and disc sander. He said he didn't use the lathe much.


----------



## whitefishblues (Sep 4, 2019)

I don't know if this is a feature or a bug, but…I was trying to drill some pen blanks on my Supershop. Started with the chuck on the spindle and a drill mounted in the tailstock, but there was some play in the drill setup (made worse by the flex in the drill bit itself) and the results were far less than satisfactory. Entry would be on center and exit was a crapshoot. I switched the drill to the spindle and the chuck to the tailstock and that helped a bit, but the play in the tailstock continued to frustrate me. The setscrews on the posts were tight and the tensioning bar was fully engaged, but I could still rock the tailstock back and forth and get about 1/16" play at the end of the pen blank. First thought was to wrap the tailstock posts in blue tape but one of them wouldn't go back in. Then I had the bright idea that perhaps those posts weren't perfectly round. I loosened the set screws and the tensioning bar, turned each post 90 degrees, and the wobble was completely eliminated even before re-tightening! I still got some off-center exits thanks to the flex in the drill bit, but if I remembered to start slow and "peck" at the blank when starting, I got very good results. Overall, I really like these using pen blank jaws for drilling…much quicker and more accurate for me than doing it in drill press mode.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

WFB that was clever move to check the rotation of the tubes.

I'm embarrassed to admit, but I have trouble tightening the tensioning bar the proper direction. It will get tight but it's not pressing against the posts! DOH! Many times I've had to get a long lever to loosen it and turn it so it presses against the posts. Double check that.

I immediately think of two things to check. First, it is possible that the tailstock posts do not hold the drill parallel to the ways. I have one where the casting was machined at almost 2°! A quick check with a dial indicator set on the carriage will tell all very quickly. On the Fox machines there are four set screws in the base casting that can change the angle of the tailstock and you might get nice alignment with them. I don't know if Smithy kept that feature.

Secondly, the drill bit itself may be a culprit. For years I fought the "woodcutting" brad point twist drills with a square point. Then too late smart and too soon old, I applied what I knew about drilling metal. Twist drills are known for their wandering even in metal. The cure is to sharpen the standard twist drill bit with a relatively fine stone so you get a sharp cutting edge. Use a machine that can all but guarantee equal cutting edges. And then apply the four facet point which removes the blunt wedge at the end of the drill web. A split point does that but it's much more difficult to sharpen than a four facet. Such a well sharpened bit tends not to wander in wood or metal and will exit wood cleaner than any other bit I've used.

The starting surface of the blank where a hole is to be drilled is critical. For metal and now for wood end grain I use a center drill applied to a carefully flattened surface. This guarantees an accurate start. If you are using an extra long drill bit, the pilot hole start is critical. If you are drilling all the way through, consider using a shorter bit and drill from each end. Any error will be cut in half.

Finally, if it really is critical to nearest 0.001", then an undersize twist drill starter hole for a boring bar is how machinists solve the problem.

DanK


----------



## whitefishblues (Sep 4, 2019)

DanK - Thanks very much for the great advice. I do the same thing with the tensioning bar. Between the SuperShop and the others I don't have the tensioners mounted consistently, and it seems like I guess wrong every time. I suppose a wiser person than me would take the necessary ten minutes and make them all consistent.

I wasn't being very careful with the ends of the pen blanks since I knew I'd hit them with a barrel trimmer after gluing in the sleeves. I was cutting the blanks to length freehand on the bandsaw. Last night I did a batch using a jig and a fence on the bandsaw. These called for a larger bore than the 7mm bit I was using before, so the drill bits weren't flexing. Much better results this time around and plenty accurate for pen blanks. But…I do want to improve my skills for other projects so I will check the alignment of the base casting. And sometime soon I'll have to dig into drill bit sharpening, something I know very little about.


----------



## 5763 (11 mo ago)

I have a Supershop setup that includes a table saw, disc sanders, lathe etc. I need to move it along to a new owner that can use it. Can you offer any suggestions about who and how I can find someone interested. I am located in southeastern Massachusetts and I have never seen one like this around here. It belonged to my father-in-law who moved it here from the midwest.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> I have a Supershop setup that includes a table saw, disc sanders, lathe etc. I need to move it along to a new owner that can use it. Can you offer any suggestions about who and how I can find someone interested. I am located in southeastern Massachusetts and I have never seen one like this around here. It belonged to my father-in-law who moved it here from the midwest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## 5763 (11 mo ago)

Thanks for the reply. I have sold small items on both Craigslist and Marketplace, but nothing like this. I have also looked a few times recently and have not seen another like this for sale in this area. I guess that could go either way; at least there are not a whole bunch to choose from if someone is looking….

I am sure that this is (was) a very expensive toy back when it was purchased. Are they still being made? Is it possible to find parts and pieces for it? Are they a reliable and solid woodworking tool?

I am not sure what to tell a prospective buyer. I would love to keep it, but my workshop is in a second floor loft and I don't think that the structure will support having this beast up there (does anyone know how much it weighs?).


----------



## merrill77 (Mar 27, 2013)

I have purchased 2 Supershops over the years (and sold one). Unless you find the right person at the right time, they are not worth much. Most people don't know what they are. I love my SuperShop - it is a far superior machine based only on the capabilities, compared to a ShopSmith, IMO. But if someone wants a combo machine, the ShopSmith is more common, better known and has better parts availability. My point is that the demand is very, very low for SuperShops. I know - blasphemy!!

Anyway, people usually post asking prices that are just not supported by the market. OTOH, I purchased my current SuperShop in like-new condition with all the big upgrade accessories (belt sander, jointer and bandsaw) for $350 (eBay) ... and the guy threw in a cheap tablesaw when I picked it up. That was a steal IMO. Yours looks to be in pretty good condition - but I would not expect to get more than $500 for it. And even at lower prices, it might take a while to sell. I sold my last one for $375: it was same era as yours and it was mechanically working fine, but was in rougher condition, cosmetically.

As always, the more pictures you post, the more interest you will generate. When I sold mine, I emphasized what a great lathe it is: the weight and electronic speed control are features that you could not match in new or used lathes at that time for my asking price.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Thanks for the reply. I have sold small items on both Craigslist and Marketplace, but nothing like this. I have also looked a few times recently and have not seen another like this for sale in this area. I guess that could go either way; at least there are not a whole bunch to choose from if someone is looking….
> 
> I am sure that this is (was) a very expensive toy back when it was purchased. Are they still being made? Is it possible to find parts and pieces for it? Are they a reliable and solid woodworking tool?
> 
> ...


As I mentioned in an earlier post, Smithy (the company that sold your Supershop) listed the weight of the Supershop at 480 pounds.

These machines are no longer made or being sold, and parts are few and far between. Smithy still sells metalworking machines and they still have a limited parts supply for the Supershop. On the other hand, these are robust machines and there isn't a lot that can go wrong with one of them. Bearings are available from any bearing supplier. The DC motor and controller likely can still be obtained from Smithy, as I've heard they used the same motor on some of their metalworking gear, although I haven't heard this directly from Smithy.

If one is careful, it's possible to make a few modifications (check back through earlier posts in this thread) to enable Shopsmith gear to be used on the Supershop.

I have two of these machines and paid less than $300 for each of them. The Smithy came with a bandsaw. The other is a Fox Supershop, which were made in the U.S. The Smithy is a copy that was made in China and some parts are not interchangeable between the two versions.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I have two Fox Supershops and wouldn't trade them for anything I can think of. They are ideal for hobby woodworkers. I use one of them for light metal work. They store in the space of a bicycle and with the built in retractable casters, they move easily and stay securely. The Fox machines are pushing 600 lbs loaded but I've loaded them by myself from the ground into the back of a pickup many times. The same principles apply to the 
Smithy clone.

As referred to above, almost all of the consumable parts were readily available off the shelf stuff. Wear parts availability is not a major concern because they can be easily replicated if not bought off the shelf. The tooling it uses is all off the shelf stuff. If you have any questions about specifics, contact us here.

Good advice given above and good luck.

DanK


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Dan K
The Fox machines are pushing 600 lbs loaded but I've loaded them by myself from the ground into the back of a pickup many times.

Oh yah me too…... IN PIECES! Maybe in my younger days but not even think about it now. I break base and top apart. If headstock can copme off easy then load it all separately.

5673- I think most of your questions are answered but let me add some things I have learned. The one you pictured is a SMithy. The carriage motors/gears was an option- standard on Fox machines. If it has that, there will be a coiled wire from carriage to headstock. Many parts do not interchange between the Smithy & Fox versions- there are other knock-off versions I am not familiar with. yes parts can be a challenge. I heard from a reliable source Smithy scrapped all the SMithy parts recently. I bought some extras so have a small stash- lock wedges and internal belt (I think Smithy not Fox). and the big tension spring to raise into vertical. I think it is same between all flavors but not confirmed. I bought an extra Fox to have spare parts in case needed. I have 3 Fox and 1 Smithy currently (plus a bunch of Shopsmith stuff). Many SSmith stuff can be adapted to fit SuperShops. I even made a bracket to fit a Ringmaster from SSmith to Supershop. The biggest advantage over SSMith is 32 low end rpm. That is huge and why it makes a good lathe/drillpress. As Dan K said, many parts are industry standard (like the R-8 collet/accessories) unlike SSmith which is proprietary. Bearings are all standard stuff to. Motor and controller I think I heard are same as what Detriot Machine Tools uses in their metal machining tools. 
As for pricing, I see crazy asking prices for SuperShops and Shopsmiths alike. The used market just doesn't hold values. The most I paid was $550 for the Smithy with jointer (6") and bandsaw. I sold jointer (have an 8" Jet) and made bandsaw into metal station with metal blade. I paid $300 for last one cause I wanted it for parts if one broke plus it had wooden 2X as bench not the metal frame and I plan to make it shorter and turn 90 degrees for permanent drill press with a cabinet/drawers beside on stand. I traded a rebuilt SSmith headstock for first and it came with a broken Totalshop bandsaw (I rebuilt with SSmith parts). 2nd I paid $240. I added reverse to all the Fox machines- great for running SPTs from quill end (with extened drive hub) and sanding in lathe mode cause can sand AWAY from yourself and collect behind machine. 
SSmith tools can fit SuperShop machines using an adapter plate. 
The adapter is a plate with SuperShop tube on bottom and SSmith on top to fit SPTs (Special Purpose Tools). I also worked with a guy on FeeBay to develope drive hubs for both machines (yes upper shaft splines are different). stius76 is user name. He prints them for either machine to drive accessory tools (SPTs) off top shaft. the jointer drive is same for both. He sells these for just over $26 currently and free shipping. As Dan K said, more questions just ask. I know a guy in MA that has 3 and could always use another! So to sell, post good pictures and write a good description. If you want to move it fairly quickly I suggest pricing in $3-400 range for starters. Good luck with the sale. Give this site as a reference - check back several pages and much of what I described is there with pictures.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

LOL DTT. I've never disassembled to load. The trick is to strip off the accessories, aux table etc. Then run the headstock and carriage to one end. That makes one end light enough to lift. Once the upper end is secure, then crank everything to the high end. The end on the ground is now liftable and the casters on the upper end will run away with it, so all one has to do is get it high enough. Yes, I was much younger then, but I recently moved and did it at the beginning of last year.

Just knowing that it can be done I thought was helpful.

DanK


----------



## 5763 (11 mo ago)

Wow, thanks for all the great info. It looks to me that this machine was barely used. I will follow the advice and get pictures of all the pieces and parts and see what happens. It is in a walkout basement, but on the back of the house, so it will require some strong young men to get it out of here. I just hope that I can find someone willing to move it out, not so worried about the $$.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Wow, thanks for all the great info. It looks to me that this machine was barely used. I will follow the advice and get pictures of all the pieces and parts and see what happens. It is in a walkout basement, but on the back of the house, so it will require some strong young men to get it out of here. I just hope that I can find someone willing to move it out, not so worried about the $$.
> 
> - 5763


You can include in the ad that the buyer needs to bring some help in order to remove the machine and mention the weight if it can't be moved from the your entrance to a vehicle on the casters.

Both Dans have mentioned moving them either fully assembled or with the machine and base separated. Both of mine were separated. The Fox Supershop went without issue and there was the seller and his two grown sons to help. However, the Smithy was another matter. Be aware that there is a very powerful spring in the tail end of the machine which is used to assist in swinging/lifting it into the upright/drillpress mode. Take care if you decide to separate the machine from the base-that spring can hurt you. Read the owners manual about how to assemble the machine, particularly the part about adjusting the tension on the spring.


----------



## Cagy (May 7, 2021)

This my first time posting so I'll probably mess it up. My middle name is "Murphy". 
I want to talk to the gentleman that has the SuperShop 720 he is wanting to get rid of. 
If I've done this right, and it okay to post my number 225-572-7544. I'd love to talk to him.

Now different subject matter. I find this site very hard to understand. Example I get a email. I read it but when I click on it, it takes me to the very beginning. Seems it would open with the newer message first. 
Now I am 71 and know my mind is slowing down. 
But I'd love to be more active if I could on the sight. I usually just give up. Not even sure how I got HERE where I think I can actually post something.

Cagy


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> This my first time posting so I'll probably mess it up. My middle name is "Murphy".
> I want to talk to the gentleman that has the SuperShop 720 he is wanting to get rid of.
> If I've done this right, and it okay to post my number 225-572-7544. I'd love to talk to him.
> 
> ...


Cagy - Murphy, welcome to the forum.

Regarding those emails and responding:

You'll see in each of those emails mention something like "DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL
View this reply, read all the existing replies, or post a reply of your own at:
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/282810#reply-5458459"

This appears for some reason twice in each email. If you click on the first occurrence, it takes you to the first post in this thread. If you click on the second occurrence, it takes you to the last post in this thread. Since both of these occurrences say the same thing, I have no idea how they differentiate between the beginning and end of the thread, but that's how it works.

Hopefully, you'll get a call from the seller. It looks like a very good machine.


----------



## Cagy (May 7, 2021)

Thanks Ted 
That helps a lot !
Now I'd I might ask one more question on my difficulties. If I wanted to start a post/comment of my own a new post you might say. Could you help me with that. Is there a link available that might explain that. For example (and I've seen this info here before) I also have a smithy Granett. Talking with Kerry at Detroit he told me that the variable speed of of the metal lathe's they sell now will fit the Super Shop 720. THATS good info for the group. Also the motors will interchange but you have to use the end that has the mounting holes from the Super Shop 720 onto the new motor. Kerry is a wealth of information. He is semi retired he is there only three days a week I can't remember which days. Very helpful and I suggested you talk to him if you can. He's been around there a long time. Thanks again Ted. 
Cagy.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Thanks Ted
> That helps a lot !
> Now I'd I might ask one more question on my difficulties. If I wanted to start a post/comment of my own a new post you might say. Could you help me with that. Is there a link available that might explain that. For example (and I've seen this info here before) I also have a smithy Granett. Talking with Kerry at Detroit he told me that the variable speed of of the metal lathe's they sell now will fit the Super Shop 720. THATS good info for the group. Also the motors will interchange but you have to use the end that has the mounting holes from the Super Shop 720 onto the new motor. Kerry is a wealth of information. He is semi retired he is there only three days a week I can't remember which days. Very helpful and I suggested you talk to him if you can. He's been around there a long time. Thanks again Ted.
> Cagy.
> ...


If you want to post something, just sign in and then scroll down past the last post to "Have your say…" and post what you want. If you want to add a photo, just have the photo(s) on your computer desktop and then click on the "img" button, then click the "Choose File" button, select the photo, and then click on the "Insert This Image" button.

If you want to start a new thread about something other than Supershop, click on "Start new topic" which is just below "Have your say…." There are some instructions you can read after going there.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

Dan K- Yes I know all about removing anything that will come off and then slide to other end so always lifting the "light" end (right!). Also when taking base and top apart, put it in VERTICAL position to relieve tension on that massive spring- well so a friend told me. It can store lots of energy. Fortunately my "friend" was not injured when it released its kenetic energy. :+O

As for adusting that big spring tension, there is a special spanner to adjust it is different for Fox and Smithy (DOH!).
if it is fairly easy to raise vertical, it doesn't need adjustment.. Putting in vertical untensions (mostly) tha spring.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Dan K- Yes I know all about removing anything that will come off and then slide to other end so always lifting the "light" end (right!). Also when taking base and top apart, put it in VERTICAL position to relieve tension on that massive spring- well so a friend told me. It can store lots of energy. Fortunately my "friend" was not injured when it released its kenetic energy. :+O
> 
> As for adusting that big spring tension, there is a special spanner to adjust it is different for Fox and Smithy (DOH!).
> if it is fairly easy to raise vertical, it doesn t need adjustment.. Putting in vertical untensions (mostly) tha spring.
> ...


Dan,

I agree completely about lifting the Supershop to the upright position.

Before I picked up my Smithy, I called the folks at Smithy about relieving the tension and asked specifically about lifting to upright before releasing tension, thinking that if the assembly instructions said to lift it before applying tension, one should also lift it to remove the tension. But, I was told it wasn't necessary, so I learned the hard way about how much force is in that spring. When I removed the last bolt holding the spring in tension, the so called spanner thumped my hand so hard I initially thought it was broken and the spanner flew off. Thankfully, the spanner didn't hit the guy who was trying to help me take the thing apart.


----------



## 5763 (11 mo ago)

> Both Dans have mentioned moving them either fully assembled or with the machine and base separated. Both of mine were separated. The Fox Supershop went without issue and there was the seller and his two grown sons to help. However, the Smithy was another matter. Be aware that there is a very powerful spring in the tail end of the machine which is used to assist in swinging/lifting it into the upright/drillpress mode. Take care if you decide to separate the machine from the base-that spring can hurt you. Read the owners manual about how to assemble the machine, particularly the part about adjusting the tension on the spring.
> 
> - Ted724


Thanks for that warning. I knew about the spring and was reading up last night on how to disassemble and not hurt myself.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I have a new Smithy Granite 1324 and when studying it as I set it up, I noticed that the motor and controls are interchangeable (as a unit) with the Fox. That will be good news when I need to update the motors, but they are still going strong.

I post stuff about the Granite machine on Hobby Machinist site. Lumberjocks is a woodworking site and the machinist stuff is better received on a metal working site. But you can PM me with user questions.

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Hi Dan,

Thanks for that info.

When I got your posting I was over on ebay looking at sewing machine servo motors and noticed that there's a guy (thecustomcrafter) who has a 1500W-2HP variable speed servo motor that fits the Granite 1324. He wants a bit over $450 for the motor and controller. Item number 185123723312. I'd guess this will fit the Smithy Supershop as well. He also has a replacement motor for the Shopsmith 10er.


----------



## Cagy (May 7, 2021)

I'm not totally sure but spoke with Kerry at smithy several months ago. He told me that the motors would interchange between the SuperShop 720s and the SMITY granite. However he said that you would have to change the End cover off of the old SuperShop and put it on the new motor so that it could be bolted up properly. Hope that makes sense and maybe helps a little bit


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Came across a Fox Supershop on Facebook for $500 that's located in Brewster, NY. Don't know anything about it other than that, but seems to be in decent shape with motorized carriage. The ad doesn't mention Supershop-describes it as a "woodworker drill press etc." Here's the link-https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1807851582752558/?ref=product_details&referral_code=undefined


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Interesting mortising jig laying on it….

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

There's a Fox Supershop on Facebook/marketplace in Toledo, Ohio for $300. Looks like it could use some TLC-owner says: "Runs but needs some work". See https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/342637604513375/


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

This is a sweetheart deal. It's an early unit painted like this and very complete. If it runs, I don't see what work other than some clean up. It's be right at home in my shop.

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

There's a clean Smithy with bandsaw for $800 in Rochester, MI on facebook, see-https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/602441300986072/


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

That is a nice one! Good price, too.

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

Found these SuperShops on Craigslist or Facebook using SearchTempest.com:

https://worcester.craigslist.org/for/d/royalston-super-shop-wood-working-multi/7484653485.html-$500

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/tls/d/tempe-super-shop-wood-working-machine/7491319693.html-$975

https://portland.craigslist.org/clk/tls/d/camas-smithy-super-shop-lathe/7492481916.html-$2000

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/4874579519305856/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post-$2200

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/568600688201109/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post- and second listing-https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/752139142881347/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post-$400

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/682688182910445/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post-No price - Never Used -


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

I have heard that Shopsmith SPTs can work on the supershop. True or false?


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

That would be true to the extent one has the mounting adapters. Fox made custom castings to replicate the Shopsmith placement and get the PTO lined up. Lacking those rare beasts, an adapter can be made by a machine shop at some expense. Having one such mounting adapter and the requisite PTO adapters (still available from Shopsmith) one can mount any Shopsmith special purpose tool ever made. I currently have a Shopsmith band saw mounted on a Fox. Very handy.

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> I have heard that Shopsmith SPTs can work on the supershop. True or false?
> 
> - DrTodd


True. Search through some of my past postings to see an adapter I made to mount Shopsmith SPTs on the Supershop.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> I have heard that Shopsmith SPTs can work on the supershop. True or false?
> 
> - DrTodd


Check on EBAY for user stius76. I worked with him to develope a SuperShop to SSmith adapter drive for both upper and lower shafts for Fox & Smithy. He has one listed just over $26. He also makes some nice alternative SSmith couplers to check out and is a very nice guy to work with. I have a Smithy bandsaw mounted on one of my Fox machines with a metal cutting blade. Mine also have reverse so I can mount on quill end to drive. I bought one of the couplers from him that I can use a long dowel to span over carriage. The Smithy & Fox have different spline counts on upper shaft. Draw bar needs to be removed. I also used 5/8" drill stock to mount in the collet to mount SSmith hubs on (quill end).


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

Thanks for all of your replies Dan K!!!
The unit I hope to successfully ship is an original (1981) Fox shop (Fox emblem on the logo) and I think it's pretty complete regarding accessories. It looks to me as though it also has the power carriage too. I have several Shopsmiths and SPTs so probably we'll worth that adapter! I think I probably will be interested in the metal working tool holder for lathe work as an additional acquisition. 
Can you confidentially identify any details like the motor horsepower for this model, estimated weight for shipping (I've read both 400# and 600#), or note any obvious omissions? I will upload some pictures:


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

It also looks to include the owners manual which I did not include. The drill chuck appears to be pretty rusted but I expect this will not be hard to clean. I also have a new chuck for my SS which could easily be adapted to use. I have a nova chuck which I think can also easily be adapted…


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

DrTodd, the ease of adapting a nova chuck is a bit of a myth. Nova offers adapters that can be used, but they end up being stacked. The problem with this is runout is amplified with every adapter. It seldom works out the other way and if it does, be sure to buy a big lottery ticket that same hour. The solution in my case was a custom R-8 milling cutter holder machined down to mate directly with the Nova chuck of choice. There is a small conical collar which is used to pull the chuck into concentricity with the adapter as it is mated to the adapter. Then you can expect minimal if any runnout. A good deal of stability is added and a little bit of length preserved.

Good luck.
DanK


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

I think I understand. Similar to adapting SPTs better to get a direct adapter machined rather than 8-1 thread to 5/8" back to 3/4" stacked adapters.

But that seems very doable, no?


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

The shippiing weight of a Fox Supershop is nominally 600# because as standard equipment it has the carriage motor, gear trains etc. You can see the direction switch on the front of the carriage and the speed knob on the left of carriage. This weight would include the standard accessories. How far is the shipping distance? Could I be of any help from southern IN?

You may wish to hesitate trying to do metal work with this, though I've seen the Fox factory where the machines were replicating themselves! I've also seen one set up for milliing automobile heads. The variable speed carriage makes good for metal (and wood) turning, though the 2 HP main motor is on the light side for heavier work. Be aware that there are step pulleys to change speed and power ranges under the black housing on left. You will need a cross feed table and a tool post that are sized to be able to center the cutting bits. A three jaw chuck and a 4 jaw chuck with their respective adapter plates will drive the cost up considerably.

Milling work is another story because here you will need an X-Y milling table mounted on a machinists angle bracket. A severe limitation is the quill has no micro feed, so to take a 0.020" cut is one step short of impossible. Yes, the power carriage can take the table upward, but by 0.020"???? Even worse to try it manually. If you do, be careful not to break your wrist. Thousandths not gonna happen easily. BTDT.

In both cases you will find a dial indicator with a magnetic base indispensable to control dimensions. I solved the whole problem eventually getting a Smithy Granite 1324 that was all set up for these operations and added a DRO (digital read out) for dimensioning. Best money spent for hobby metal work. By the time you get all the tooling, adapters, measuring, tables, and stuff you will have spent half or more of what the Granite costs new. Give it some thought. With the Smithy you can make all the stuff you'll want for the Supershop anyway…. LOL. BTDT.

That is a sweet looking pristine machine. Take good care of it.

DanK


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

The critical feature necessary for me is very limited space. Same favor toward SS. This seems to me to be literally a "Super" Shopsmith. More power, more variable rpm's (even better then the digital PowerPro!), and heavier, stiffer design. I also like the more standardized Morris taper drive system even though it could complicate equipment adaptations. I've read this advise before about metal working but I think I dream of the aptitude far more than I truly need. 
I've been reluctant to part with my craftsman table saw with its full proof extruded rails to guarantee square cuts, and also my sliding miter saw… but in a small shop space this and the old drill press should all make way for the ONE multi tool.
It will always be more convenient to have a dedicated machine that requires no transitional setup but with limited space…
The other argument is the economy - when a unit like this is literally being given away….that goes along way to compete against even the industry standards! But then as you've pointed out the real price is in the shipping:

I'm in CALIFORNIA and this unit pictured is in Wisconsin….
Yup $2-400 just for shipping…and that's probably a lucky price at the high end, but a new Shopsmith is $4k plus shipping; $6k if PP. so seems to make sense to me…

Once again I so appreciate your knowledge!


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

If you have access to Facebook, there is a Smithy in Mayer, Arizona for $250. It's no where near as nice as the one you're looking at in Wisconsin, but it has the metalworking accessories that are few and far between. There is a 3-jaw chuck and the cross slide. There is also a bandsaw. It looks quite dirty, but that may be cosmetic.

If it was near me, I'd buy it just for the chuck and cross slide.

There's also a Fox in Takoma, Washington for $500 on Facebook.

Prescot, Arizona for $800 with a jointer

The follow machines are on Craigslist:

A Smithy in Fort Collins, Colorado for $750.

A Smithy in Tempe, Arizona for $650.

There are two Smithys near Yakima, Washington-one for $1,800, the other $1,100

If you're searching for a Supershop, some folks spell it "Super Shop," so you'll need to use both terms on Craigslist or Facebook. You may find some Supershop stuff on Ebay as well.

Just as an FYI, these Supershops use R-8 collets for attaching parts to the spindle, not morse taper tool holders.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

It does have MT2 in the tailstock, though. If all your tooling requires MT2, then an R-8 to MT2 adapter for about $25 is all you need.

DanK


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

I am continually amazed at your knowledge and honestly wish I'd consulted before this eBay find so far away… on the other hand it does seem to be in good condition and I'm excited about the carriage motor. I'm still not sure this is better than others you've mentioned…I think shipping will be bad but I'll probably still be under the higher priced units you've listed. Am I correct to celebrate that this is a fox rather than one of the others manufactured?

Appreciate the clarification about the R8 rather than MT2.

The 6" (vs 4" Shopsmith) jointer is tempting. I got a great deal on a new in box SS jointer not long ago but ruminated awhile over the size. I have not regretted so far but I also have a 13" planner and mostly I am not regretting a jointer rather than regretting this jointer.

I will probably focus on spt adapters and the feature complete woodworking before the metal working. It is a little disappointing to hear that my new suoerNova2 chuck will not easily adapt…


----------



## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

My Super Belt sander.




























As Jim Carey would say "smokin"


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

The unit pictured is indeed a Fox original. The tell is the feature set but more obviously the name plate has a fox on it.

I don't see any jointer with this offering. Supershop jointers from Fox are quite rare in the wild.

FYI and IMHO, jointers are a waste of floor space. With a proper setup on a tablesaw (there are several different ways) a straight edge of glue joint quality can be had a great deal more efficiently than with a jointer. One pass completes it. If one needs to square up pieces bigger than 3", then time with a hand plane is a good investment offsetting the continually wasted floor space. If you're a commercial shop regularly doing large posts, that may be a different story. But I would just get a bigger tablesaw!

Easily adapt. Easy is a relative concept. Relative to money, that is. Maybe you have a machine shop or machinest friend that could do this quite readily. If you show up with the chuck and an R-8 with enough meat on it to make the few cuts required, you might be surprised (I was) with the result.

DanK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> It is a little disappointing to hear that my new suoerNova2 chuck will not easily adapt…
> 
> - DrTodd


Does your Nova chuck mount onto your Shopsmith with an adapter to fit the Shopsmith spindle? If yes, you only need to fabricate a 5/8' spindle out of 5/8" drill rod and mount it into a 5/8" R-8 collet. With a hacksaw and file (or dremel or strip sander) you'll need to recreate that "reverse" tapered flat to match the Shopsmith spindle. This setup will be needed if you want to mount Shopsmith tooling on your Supershop. If your Nova adapter isn't one that fits the Shopsmith spindle, you can always get one that does. Whatever you do, don't mount Shopsmith stuff on a spindle without that reverse taper.

You may want to spend some time reading through earlier postings regarding the Supershop. Lots of great info for someone new to the machine.

From my perspective (I have a Fox and a Smithy) I'd get a Smithy if I were planning on doing some metal work down the road. The spindle threat on the Smithy is 2 1/4" x 8 TPI, which was a common spindle threat many year ago and one can still find chucks, faceplates, etc., that fit. The Fox spindle on the other hand is 2" x 4 TPI Acme thread. You won't find any off-the-shelf tooling for it.

Be aware that some items like those Special Purpose Tools can be mounted on either machine, but other parts may not. The miter gauge slot/bar are different width. The rack/pinion gears are a different pitch. The spline count on the back end of the Spindle is different.


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

I can't understand why there isn't more on YouTube on these great machines!

DanK appreciate all your shared info! I really love your router setup for flutes. Can you do spirals as well?


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

No spirals on the Supershop. I use a Legacy Ornamental Mill for that. I've spent a lot of time studying how to do it on the Supershop, but I didn't have the means to make link gears. Just when I was about to do that this LOM came up fairly local at the right price and I jumped at the chance to fulfill a lifetime dream.










DanK


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

Yes linking gears is the best for sure but wondered if you'd tried by simply controlling the lathe rpm's

The carriage should travel at a set speed and I would think you could adjust pitch by the main motor speed but it may not go slow enough…

Recalling another question: does the fox ss have reverse speed (for the quill)?


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

How can I determine if this fox SS has 2 or 1.5hp motor?


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

You could measure the amperage pulled by the motor or stand it up and remove the base plate. The early models had a painted metal base plate, the later one a much easier to remove black plastic one. I don't remember 1 1/2 HP was used, but my memory fails often now. If so, it may have been when rated HP was closer to reality. I haven't noticed any performance difference between the older and newer iterations. Your picture above shows the plastic plate, so I'd bet on the 2 HP rating.

By default the Fox machines do not have a main motor reversing switch. It is trivial to install one, but dangerous to do so if using threaded spindles for anything, e.g. shaper cutters, sawblades, screw on chucks, etc. The risk can be mitigated using washers locked to a groove, but none of the supplied spindles are made that way. It will be another setup feature to check before applying power. Having said that, I've installed reversing switches on both of mine, so far without incident. It came in very handy when I was making a set of a dozen hand screws. Those long threads took several hours to turn by hand, but chucked in the Supershop at about 50 RPM they took less than 2 minutes. Then of course I had to back the die off….

RE: what you suggest about cutting spirals with low spindle RPM and carriage movement, no I've never even tried because the main spindle does not go below 30 RPM and then is not reliable. Any change in load changes speed until the latent power circuits catch up leading to oscillations detrimental to spiral pitch. It was in the back of Tony Fox's mind to electronically link the motors, hence the big name plate where designs put the electronic controls. But cost of using stepping motors was prohibitive (they were just being developed) and never made it into a prototype. So the more mature technology of variable speed motors was the bean counters imperative.

I would love to see these come back into some form of (slow) production to supply what I believe to be a growing market as DIY continues to grow, but I have no idea where the specification files are. Smithy might have them yet and maybe if you spoke Chinese…. But I would not like to see them made into CNC machines.

DanK


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

The more I learn about these machines the more fascinating I find them! Fingers crossed that this one is 2hp but I appreciate your reassurance on performance. The motorized carriage is a big appeal to me and as I've said I really love your router jig!
How big a job (or is it even possible) to swap the Fox quill or at least the outer spindle for a smithy which sounds to be the more standard 1"-8. Pretty certain that is supernova 2 threads as the Shopsmith required an adapter. I suspect the smithy spindle will directly mount but then again lottery ticket!


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

Dan K merril77 or anyone else, please post or direct me to good pictures showing the standard as well as any additional "accessories" that I should be looking for when buying a super shop. As many pictures as possible will be helpful. I'm specifically looking for the 1981 fox supershop accessories but would be happy to see illustrations of what the smithy's were supplied with.

I suspect I'll be hunting for missing parts for along time in order to achieve "feature complete" so any advise toward priorities is also welcome!
TIA


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

> If you have access to Facebook, there is a Smithy in Mayer, Arizona for $250. It s no where near as nice as the one you re looking at in Wisconsin, but it has the metalworking accessories that are few and far between. There is a 3-jaw chuck and the cross slide. There is also a bandsaw. It looks quite dirty, but that may be cosmetic.
> 
> If it was near me, I d buy it just for the chuck and cross slide.
> 
> ...


Do you happen to have any links especially to the first one referenced. I cannot find the one in mayer az on fb.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

facebook marketplace item number 736611694006556


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Here are some images to answer some of these questions. But first, note that the threads on the spindle of the Fox Supershop, indeed the entire spindle is of Bridgeport origin by intent to accommodate future metal working prospects. One can actually buy stock nuts for bolts that big and they make a good starting point for machining back plates etc. I agree that for hobby woodworkers, a spindle swap to the 1-8 might be good. Ted77, having both Fox and Smithy versions can quickly verify if the entire spindle quill assemblies are interchangeable. But as Ted points out, one can always use adapters or I recommend a meaty R-8 and turn the adapter needed. Remember, stacking adapters is not a real good idea.

Picture from owners manual.









Picture from sales brochure. *Note the HP rating..*.









Now the KILLER! if anyone spots one of these in the wild and tells me where it can be bought I will kiss you!









DanK


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

The spanner wrench you refer to is not for the torsion spring. It is for the headstock spindle. No wrench is provided for the spring. I've only taken one apart since 1978 and that was for curiosity sake. It was then I learned how dangerous those springs are. BTW they are standard off the shelf torsion springs often used in trucks of the time. 
DanK


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

Is that last the 3 wheeled bandsaw you've spoken of?


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Yes, and it is a unicorn. Only about 12 prototypes were made (I happened to see them lined up at the factory by coincidence. I wanted one right away, but they said they haven't hit the market yet. Well, I don't think they ever did hit the market. (He sad)

danK


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

The diameter of the two Supershop spindles are close, but no cigar. The Fox is 3" and the Smithy is 77mm.

Regarding Nova chucks-almost all Nova chucks require an adapter to fit the chuck onto a lathe's spindle threads, and these chucks have a native threat of 1 1/2" x 8 TPI. Nova adapters have two sets of threads-male threads that fit into the back of the chuck (the native threads) and female threats that match the threads on a lathe's spindle. For the Nova Shopsmith adapter, however, there are no female threads-it's simply a smooth bore of 5/8".

So, if you make a 5/8" "spindle" with a reverse taper out of drill rod to simulate a Shopsmith spindle, you can mount a Nova chuck in the same way you would on a Shopsmith Mark V using a Nova "F" or "S" adapter.

Some Nova chucks are made to fit one specific size spindle. The only ones I'm familiar with are threaded to fit the 1" x 8 TPI spindle. If there are others, I'm not aware of them.

There are lots of other wood lathe chucks that come threaded to fit the 1" x 8 TPI spindle. I have several of these. To mount these, I have a modified R-8 drill chuck arbor that was threaded to match so that I can mount these chucks on the Supershop. If I recall correctly, this was an R-8 JT4 drill chuck arbor that was modified.


----------



## Cagy (May 7, 2021)

> The shippiing weight of a Fox Supershop is nominally 600# because as standard equipment it has the carriage motor, gear trains etc. You can see the direction switch on the front of the carriage and the speed knob on the left of carriage. This weight would include the standard accessories. How far is the shipping distance? Could I be of any help from southern IN?
> 
> You may wish to hesitate trying to do metal work with this, though I ve seen the Fox factory where the machines were replicating themselves! I ve also seen one set up for milliing automobile heads. The variable speed carriage makes good for metal (and wood) turning, though the 2 HP main motor is on the light side for heavier work. Be aware that there are step pulleys to change speed and power ranges under the black housing on left. You will need a cross feed table and a tool post that are sized to be able to center the cutting bits. A three jaw chuck and a 4 jaw chuck with their respective adapter plates will drive the cost up considerably.
> 
> ...


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

How does Ted724 know all of these available supershops? I have also been unable to locate the one on FB despite even having the item number…. Would have liked to see the details for sure!


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

Finally made contact with the FB unit! Although I'm still in love with the barnfind Fox SS shipping appears to be insurmountable.

Furthermore there does seem to be some advantages with the later smithy versions. Sounds like the quill is a bit of an advantage although the method outlined to lock 5/8" collet to use any Shopsmith accessory seems the way to go.

I think I will be missing that power carriage, speaking of which is that a transplantable/ interchangeable part?

What differences does this group see between the fox and smithy otherwise? The label on the smithy clearly states the frame is made in China but headstock in US.


----------



## DantheToolman (Sep 19, 2018)

> Finally made contact with the FB unit! Although I'm still in love with the barnfind Fox SS shipping appears to be insurmountable.
> 
> Furthermore there does seem to be some advantages with the later smithy versions. Sounds like the quill is a bit of an advantage although the method outlined to lock 5/8" collet to use any Shopsmith accessory seems the way to go.
> 
> ...


The carriage parts I believe are same between Smithy & Fox. I have 3 Fox machines and 1 Smithy. In an earlier post you asked about reverse. The first Fox I traded a Shopsmith refurbished headstock for and it had reverse already installed in an external single gang electrical box and a switch. I found reverse schematic and added to the other 2 Foxes and could to Smithy and probably will some day but it is a drill press right now so no need. Eventually I will make it a lathe cause it has .000x" runout after I changed the quill bearings. One of the Foxes has metal ends for base and 2X boards between. The others are all metal base. I can cut the 2X to size and turn machine 90 degrees to keep it a permanent drill press and leave room beside on bench for a cabinet with drawers/space for all things drilling. 
You mentioned you have a Craftsman tablesaw. My recommendation if you can figure out space is keep it. I rarely use the SSmith or SuperShop as a table saw because tilting the table stinketh large. I added a nice fence system to my mid-60s Craftsman saw and once aligned, it cuts great. I prefer a tilting blade. But I used a M500 SSmith for years as my main table saw and it works, just a pain to set up and if cutting something large very sketchy. I did mount a 12" blade on the Supershop arbor and if cutting at a 90 or I needed the extra capacity of a 12" blade, I would use it. But since I have a DeWalt 12" slider that is where I do most of my cuts.
The SuperShop as a drill press or lathe is AWESOME- 32 rpm just can't be beat.


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

Dantgetoolman, I did see your posts about the facing drill press mode! Applause!!! Nice mod.
I have a Shopsmith 520 which I do like for pretty much everything. If I had the PowerPro headstock (I do not) I would really struggle to choose between the Shopsmith and supershop….
I think once one gets used to adjusting the table rather than the blade the important things are the rigidity of the table and fence. Also for things like dado stacks I do think it's easier to apply to the saw chuck and then load into the quill.
Of course if you've got room, no question get dedicated tools, but I do not have room, would be difficult to keep both Shopsmith and supershops although maybe if I clear out a few things…
Regarding miter saws, I do agree these are too perfect for convenience but again lack rigidity that will affect projects that require accuracy and precision. Still probably always have that.


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

Anyone ever try to install a more powerful drive motor in these super shops like maybe a perm magnet switch reluctance or maybe a Tesla motor????


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Nope. And here's why I lost all motivation to do so.

There is a reasonable maximum HP for any given machine. On heavy industrial machines the HP match is critical for efficiency. On smaller machines the match is critical for safety. For example, I've run table saws that were so overpowered it was dangerous just to turn them on. In more than one case, I've been supervisor required to administer first aid until EMTs arrived. Granted, questionable operator technique was involved, but exacerbated by overpowered saw. A 10" blade powered by 3 hp is more than sufficient for normal small shop work, assuming a properly sharp blade.

On the Supershops, my bacon has been saved more than once by the machine stalling instead of it overpowering the difficulty and breaking something. This is especially true with turning. If one requires excessive HP for turning, then it's overdue to learn better technique. IMHO the 2-2 1/2HP is more than adequate for small shop and hobby work.

So I see no need to go all ape on it.

DanK


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

Totally understood! I was honestly kidding about the Tesla motor but as you've said many machines use 3hp which is twice the 1.5 motor on the SS. 
The electronics for speed control safety feature to pause if resistance suddenly increases is an excellent feature too.


----------



## LogsIntoLumber (5 mo ago)

I was recently given a SS with quite a few attachments. I am a former Shopsmith owner and understand that machine quite well. I get the overall approach of the SS, but am struggling with setup details… I live in central PA and will travel if someone is willing to give me an orientation on their machine? Better yet, come to State College, PA and show me what's going on with mine! Thanks, for any insight.


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> I was recently given a SS with quite a few attachments. I am a former Shopsmith owner and understand that machine quite well. I get the overall approach of the SS, but am struggling with setup details… I live in central PA and will travel if someone is willing to give me an orientation on their machine? Better yet, come to State College, PA and show me what's going on with mine! Thanks, for any insight.
> 
> - LogsIntoLumber


Take a look at this video on Youtube-




If it doesn't answer your questions, come back here with some specifics about what you need to know. I'm sure we can help.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

What Ted said.

And if you want to do a road trip to the interesting area of Loogootee Indiana, you can play in my shop at will with two Fox Supershops.

BTW, SS could be Shopsmith, or Supershop. Sometimes I refer to the Fox, Ted might refer to Smithy.

Yes, by all means ask away. That was a pretty good video, Ted.

DanK


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

DrTodd, I posted a flyer in one of these threads that advertised Fox Supershop main motors at 2.5 HP. Mine are stamped 2 HP I believe.
WoodworkerII offered to make me a custom thin blade for my Supershop when I explained the problem of ripping a 2×4 of any length. They took my original WWII blade and reshaped it to about 3/32" thick with a special hook angle that allowed me to rip 2x material all day long at 3600 RPM. This was before you could buy the thin blades of today. Big difference.

DanK


----------



## LogsIntoLumber (5 mo ago)

Thank you Ted and Dan! Stand by for questions!


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

> DrTodd, I posted a flyer in one of these threads that advertised Fox Supershop main motors at 2.5 HP. Mine are stamped 2 HP I believe.
> WoodworkerII offered to make me a custom thin blade for my Supershop when I explained the problem of ripping a 2×4 of any length. They took my original WWII blade and reshaped it to about 3/32" thick with a special hook angle that allowed me to rip 2x material all day long at 3600 RPM. This was before you could buy the thin blades of today. Big difference.
> 
> DanK
> ...


I guess I misunderstood the main motor power ratings. I'm very happy if it upgrades the latest Shopsmith PP which is only 2hp on 220v.

Did smithy decrease the power?


----------



## LogsIntoLumber (5 mo ago)

Ted, thanks again for the link to the Super Shop setup video. It answered a lot of questions and I feel ready to work with the basic functions. I do have questions about how to mount the bandsaw and belt sander attachments. The mounting holes for these are about 7.1/4" inches apart and a smaller diameter than the mounting holes on the machine. The holes on the machine are about 9 1/2 inches apart.

Am I missing a mounting bracket?


----------



## Ted724 (Nov 13, 2013)

> Ted, thanks again for the link to the Super Shop setup video. It answered a lot of questions and I feel ready to work with the basic functions. I do have questions about how to mount the bandsaw and belt sander attachments. The mounting holes for these are about 7.1/4" inches apart and a smaller diameter than the mounting holes on the machine. The holes on the machine are about 9 1/2 inches apart.
> 
> Am I missing a mounting bracket?
> 
> - LogsIntoLumber


Yes, Smithy (if that's the brand of Supershop you have) provided adapters for those attachment. Unfortnately, they don't have any of them these days.

Basically, the bandsaw and belt sander are tools that fit Shopsmith clones like the TotalShop, and they'll mount directly to a Shopsmith.

If you go back to page 5 of the posts here in the Supershop section, you can scan down through the photos and see what a proper adapter looks like. If you then look further on that page, you'll see what I made to adapt Shopsmith SPT tools to the Supershop. I don't have any drawings as I just took measurements and cut some pieces of plywood.

Connecting these tools to the headstock is somewhat similar to how they were driven on a Shopsmith. If you don't have the correct adapter, there's a guy on Ebay who makes and sells them. Relevant details are on pages 7 and 8.


----------



## LogsIntoLumber (5 mo ago)

Thanks a lot! I found the metal adapter plate (and believe it or not the screws). Think I got it right. Will look through the past pages to confirm.


----------



## pugslyyy (4 mo ago)

Wanted to thank everyone for keeping this thread alive. I just picked up a mint Fox Super Shop (in original Fox livery) and it's been very helpful to learn more about it.









Mine was apparently used for making pool cues and some very light machining, so it's never been used hard. It has the powered carriage option, and most of the non-optional accessories are still with it.


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

Ted724 said:


> If you have access to Facebook, there is a Smithy in Mayer, Arizona for $250. It's no where near as nice as the one you're looking at in Wisconsin, but it has the metalworking accessories that are few and far between. There is a 3-jaw chuck and the cross slide. There is also a bandsaw. It looks quite dirty, but that may be cosmetic.
> 
> If it was near me, I'd buy it just for the chuck and cross slide.
> 
> ...


thanks again for all the advice!

i ended up with the one from AZ with the metal working attachments (user manual source please?).

the pristine fox in Wisconsin never worked out for me but i saw it showed back up for almost 2x the price and another guy much closer picked it up - he’s got to be thrilled!

mine is very rusty and few minor cosmetic issues, but seems pretty complete and seems to work. I really love the R8 collet quill!

i keep fantasizing of that original 600# Fox updated (if even possible) with the smithy 77mm quill and metal working attachments…But what in the world do i need that for??? Well i dont but guess just like all of you, ive been infected!


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

Ted724 said:


> Found these SuperShops on Craigslist or Facebook using SearchTempest.com:
> 
> https://worcester.craigslist.org/for/d/royalston-super-shop-wood-working-multi/7484653485.html-$500
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for this amazing inventory! I finally acquired the one in Az! Learned about these machines by way of the shopsmith bug, but could not locate any until ebay search had a pristine fox turn up in wisconsin! Shipping proved insurmountable for me but this one from Az despite its cosmetic issues is functional!

THANKS again for your inputs!


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

DanKrager said:


> The spanner wrench you refer to is not for the torsion spring. It is for the headstock spindle. No wrench is provided for the spring. I've only taken one apart since 1978 and that was for curiosity sake. It was then I learned how dangerous those springs are. BTW they are standard off the shelf torsion springs often used in trucks of the time.
> DanK


If you watch that youtube intro, the guy walks thru unpacking and setting the tension on the spring. He specifically refers to it as a spanner wrench - it looks like a 1/2 x 1/4” steel bar with two pins.

i recognize there is a short maybe 1/4” round with a knob about the size of the three handled quill advancing mechanism but no threads. I think this is referred to a torque wrench . Thats what is used for the headstock spindle, correct?


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

DanKrager said:


> DrTodd, the ease of adapting a nova chuck is a bit of a myth. Nova offers adapters that can be used, but they end up being stacked. The problem with this is runout is amplified with every adapter. It seldom works out the other way and if it does, be sure to buy a big lottery ticket that same hour. The solution in my case was a custom R-8 milling cutter holder machined down to mate directly with the Nova chuck of choice. There is a small conical collar which is used to pull the chuck into concentricity with the adapter as it is mated to the adapter. Then you can expect minimal if any runnout. A good deal of stability is added and a little bit of length preserved.
> 
> Good luck.
> DanK


Seems like with those standard R8 collets readily available, good move would be to find and extra 5/8” collet and simply get a 5/8” solid steel rod - easy to file off a champhered edge for set screws just like the “proprietary” shopsmith main drive. Then easy just connect any shopsmith piece directly to this?

then the nova chuck adapter that fits shopsmith will fit this as well. The shortcoming with the nova chucks is that there is no setscrew or key to lock the reverse thread on the adapter 8 tpi. This means everything is legit when you run forward; but if you reverse, like you can with a power pro on the shopsmith or easily moded reverse switch supershop, the chuck could potentially unwind and dismount! Saw this pointed out on a shopsmith blog.

my noname huge chinese chuck has the native threads to match the smithy outter quill so it mounts directly but its got three setscrews to lock like a key would do.


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

Ted724 said:


> The diameter of the two Supershop spindles are close, but no cigar. The Fox is 3" and the Smithy is 77mm.
> 
> Regarding Nova chucks-almost all Nova chucks require an adapter to fit the chuck onto a lathe's spindle threads, and these chucks have a native threat of 1 1/2" x 8 TPI. Nova adapters have two sets of threads-male threads that fit into the back of the chuck (the native threads) and female threats that match the threads on a lathe's spindle. For the Nova Shopsmith adapter, however, there are no female threads-it's simply a smooth bore of 5/8".
> 
> ...


I guess this is really exactly what you were saying, but why it have to be reverse tapper? So the set screw locks it?


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

DantheToolman said:


> My Shop Fox has reverse so I can run tools off the quill by running it in reverse so direction is correct. I have a metal PTO hub for lower PTO on other end that will work for a jointer. I also have a plastic hub with 8 splines for Smithy upper left PTO to drive just about any other Shopsmith like accessory to left of headstock like Shopsmith does. The jigsaw & belt sander can be run off quill end in normal rotation- belt sander needs drive hub on aux spindle to keep direction correct.
> Here are pics of the drive hubs I have.
> View attachment 1057828
> 
> ...


I have none of these adapters in my inventory, although my set did include a bandsaw, so i better review again. Any sources for these parts?


----------



## DrTodd (6 mo ago)

Jimtodd said:


> NID, the most you should pay is about $750 fully loaded and in pristine condition. I find them all the time on the West Coast for around $500 but negotiations are in order to lower their price. They all think they are worth a ton but they just sit and gather cobwebs. I am looking for the motorized carriage unit for mine but when I find one the owner wants me to purchase the entire unit usually loaded with rust and stripped gears. Good lunch with your endeavor.
> 
> JIM


I am in so california, finally acquired a very ruff smithy but have had eye out for an original fox. Everything i see is always midway or eastcoast. I actually won the bid on a oristine fox but ut was in wisconsin and i could never work out the shipping for a 600# monster!

the smithy i have i learned about on this forum.

so please if anyone hears about a west coast unit for a reasonable price nearby, please let me know!


----------



## pugslyyy (4 mo ago)

DrTodd said:


> so please if anyone hears about a west coast unit for a reasonable price nearby, please let me know!


 I picked on up in northern Nevada recently, so they are out there. Using one of the websites that will search multiple craigslists is a good way to canvass whatever geographical area you are willing to travel to in order to get one.


----------



## mckenzie167 (22 d ago)

I have a Smithy Supershop model 720, serial no. 01244 with the bandsaw and all standard accessories. I purchased slightly used in 06 and have used it over the years for light furniture making and general woodwork. It is in very good condition. 


































Located in Wilsonville, OR.


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

That is one nice looking machine! Good luck! 
If you are wanting to sell it, put up the pertinent information if you wish. Pictures are adequate, location is there, but price?
DanK


----------



## Mavro (6 d ago)

Where can i get lathe attacments for my super shop. [email protected]


----------



## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

What attachments specifically? Cutting tools? They're off the shelf available anywhere. The originals were Dyamic brand. Chucks? Nova or other brands can be used with appropriate adapters. Centers? Again, MT2 off the shelf anywhere. Drivers? It came with a huge driver, but any driver will work that fits into an R8 collet. What else?
DanK


----------

