# How to safely rip long, plywood strips with a beveled edge.



## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

I've been ripping pre-finished plywood to make french cleats. But I'm not satisfied with the control or safety.

I'm starting by ripping 6.5" wide strips, then I'm cutting these in half, but with the blade tilted 45 deg. The issue I have is making this beveled cut. With a typical 90 deg cut, it doesn't matter that much if the wood rises a bit off the table. For example, if there is a bit of a bow. It doesn't matter much because the wood stays the same distance from the fence.

But with the blade tilted, if the wood rises up at all, it widens the cut. I do have a feather board on the fence, to push the wood down, and that works pretty well, but the wood can still raise up a bit out at the blade.

So how do you hold the wood down near the blade AND still push it through. Even my Grrrper push blocks don't stick to the wood very well once the cut has gone very far because the dust on the pre-finished surface is very slick. These are 8 foot long piece, so for most of the cut, I can't catch a shoe and the trialing edge to push.

The best I seem to be able to do, is grab the wood with both hands out in front of the table and feed it through. Then, once the wood clears the back of the blade, reach around and help hold it down flat. Even then I have to stop pushing to re-position my hand to grab and feed the wood in more and therefore not maintaining a smooth feed rate.

Reaching around is not considered safe, and the technique is not very effective.

Maybe clamp a block of wood between the feather board and fence to position the feather board closer to the blade. Obviously not so close that it would push down on the tilted blade.

This type of cut is no big deal with a relatively short cut where you can hook a push block on the back edge to apply forward pressure and perhaps use a second push stick in the other hand to held hold the wood down, but an 8 ft long cut is a different story.

Any ideas?


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## Reaperwoodworks (Nov 4, 2015)

Can you just clamp something along your fence to hold the piece down just before the blade, in conjunction with the feather board? then maybe use some sort of sacrificial push block to finish the cut when you get to the end?


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Are you using infeed and out feed support?


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

In the absence of something like board buddies, I'd use some wood (or even a thin rip jig with a bearing) and a c-clamp on the fence to hold the stock down (along with your usual fingerboards), and a couple of roller stands for infeed and outfeed support.

Cheers,
Brad


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## HapHazzard (Jan 9, 2016)

I think MT_Stringer has your answer. You need an adjustable roller stand or two, unless you have a buddy to stand on the other side of the table to receive the cut strips and hold them up.

Sometimes it helps to stack two or three strips at once, but they need to be offset by just the right amount, and if the pieces are really long, the added weight will catch up with you eventually.

Another trick is to use short pieces of scrap lumber to hold the work piece down while it goes over the blade and removing them so they don't weight it down down beyond the table.


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## mandatory66 (Jul 26, 2012)

If I had to do that job I would be using a track saw. Laying the sheet on a 4×8 piece of solid insulation for full support. set the 45 & make the cut safely and easily. I usually set the solid insulation on 3 horses to make it easy.


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

> Can you just clamp something along your fence to hold the piece down just before the blade, in conjunction with the feather board? then maybe use some sort of sacrificial push block to finish the cut when you get to the end?
> 
> - Reaperwoodworks


The feather board is on the fence pushing the board down now. It is actually a bit in front and along side the blade. Since it is pushing down, it's not pushing into the blade. You can see a second feather board further back on the fence as well as one on the table top pushing into the fence.












> Are you using infeed and out feed support?
> 
> - MTStringer


Yes I have a full outfeed table and roller stand infeed support.



> In the absence of something like board buddies, I d use some wood (or even a thin rip jig with a bearing) and a c-clamp on the fence to hold the stock down (along with your usual fingerboards), and a couple of roller stands for infeed and outfeed support.
> 
> Cheers,
> Brad
> ...


As mentioned, I already have a feather board holding it down. It's just that that is up against the fence while the blade is about 3" away. That's why I mentioned perhaps I should try putting a spacer between the feather board and fence to position the feather board closer to the blade. But not over the tilted blade.

I had seen Board Buddies and was doubtful that they would apply enough downward pressure. And they are a bit expensive just to experiment with.

It does seem like something that could hold it down nearer the blade is the answer. Board Buddies or similar.



> I think MT_Stringer has your answer. You need an adjustable roller stand or two, unless you have a buddy to stand on the other side of the table to receive the cut strips and hold them up.
> 
> - HapHazzard


As mentioned, I have infeed and outfeed support.



> Sometimes it helps to stack two or three strips at once, but they need to be offset by just the right amount, and if the pieces are really long, the added weight will catch up with you eventually.
> 
> - HapHazzard


I understand what you are saying, but I think that would be pretty complicated. I probably could only get a stack of three and still have the blade make a thru cut. I'm not sure there is enough weight to really help.



> Another trick is to use short pieces of scrap lumber to hold the work piece down while it goes over the blade and removing them so they don t weight it down down beyond the table.
> 
> - HapHazzard


I'm having trouble understanding what you mean. Are you say to have a sacrificial piece that the blade does cut through and that I can apply pressure with this. Just not sure how this work making an 8 foot long cut.

By the way, I have to make about 30 of these cuts.

Thanks for the input. Seems that providing downward force closer to the blade is the answer. Perhaps the Board Buddies, but I think I'll try moving the feather board out from the fence to apply that pressure nearer the blade. Just to see how that works.


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

> If I had to do that job I would be using a track saw. Laying the sheet on a 4×8 piece of solid insulation for full support. set the 45 & make the cut safely and easily. I usually set the solid insulation on 3 horses to make it easy.
> 
> - mandatory66


I breakdown sheet stock that way. Though I just lay it down on my driveway or garage floor on foam sheets. Even in this job, I rip the sheets more or less in half lengthwise. A full 4×8 is a bit much for me to handle.

I just have an 8 ft, clamp on fence, not a track saw. But it works pretty well for me.

I'm going to think about this approach. Especially if I can come up with some easy way to reset the fence to make repeated cuts. I can think of some ways I might be able to do this with some spacer blocks. More like a setup that allows my to just clamp the 6/5" wide strip up against a stop referenced to the clamp on fence.

I'd still want to make the initial 6.5" cut and I guess there's no reason not to continue doing that on the table saw. Then use the circular saw to make the bevel cut that splits these two. It is a little more involved in that after I make the bevel cut, I run the cutoff back through to size it the same. It's really hard to exactly split a piece with a 45 deg cut.

I really prefer standing up and pushing the work through the table saw. But maybe for this task I could setup something on saw horses so I don't have to crawl on the floor/driveway while making the cut.

I'm liking this idea more and more.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

I agree with Clin. You just need a straight edge. Use a circular saw with it. No need to set the blade very deep, just cut through. With the circular saw's short base, a bit of sag or arching of the plywood won't be a big deal.

Anyhow, French cleats aren't fine woodworking. Don't over think this.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

Put a second fence on the left side of the blade out a little bit from the edge of the wood and put another feather board on that. Just screw some scrap into an L shape and use clamps to hold it in place.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

Just keep cutting them the way you are, a little deflection, which I gather is not much seeing how you are using featherboards, is not going to affect anything. You will have more negative affect from the bows in your wall than your cuts. 
If you are still worried about it, cut your boards in half like you are doing, but run each half through again just taking off a little bit, and it will be easier to make the final cut that way.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Since you seem to have feather boards in place I don't know home you're getting rise on your material? If you don't have a problem ripping at 90 degrees just rip them at 90 degrees first and then go back a cut the individual pieces at 45 degrees.


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## HapHazzard (Jan 9, 2016)

> Another trick is to use short pieces of scrap lumber to hold the work piece down while it goes over the blade and removing them so they don t weight it down down beyond the table.
> 
> - HapHazzard
> 
> ...


I'm suggesting you use a couple of sacrificial pieces about four feet long that the blade cuts into but not through laid end to end. As the first one clears the blade you can just push it aside so the weight won't bow the plywood.


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

> Since you seem to have feather boards in place I don t know home you re getting rise on your material? If you don t have a problem ripping at 90 degrees just rip them at 90 degrees first and then go back a cut the individual pieces at 45 degrees.
> 
> - a1Jim


Because holding a board down at one edge is no assurance it is flat on the other side. Even if just 3" away. You lose a lot of mechanical advantage holding something down at about 1/2" from one edge, and the area of interest being 3" away. Meaning if it took 5 lbs of force to hold it flat where you want, you would need about 30 lbs at the fence from the feather board.

What I have been doing, as shown in the photo, is working pretty good. I'm just think there may be something better and safer, since I still need to apply some downward force with a push block.



> Put a second fence on the left side of the blade out a little bit from the edge of the wood and put another feather board on that. Just screw some scrap into an L shape and use clamps to hold it in place.
> 
> - dhazelton


That would no doubt help. With downward force applied on both sides of the 6.5" board I would think it would hold it down. I don't have another TS fence, or any other devices that I can do this with. But this may be the reason to get something.



> Just keep cutting them the way you are, a little deflection, which I gather is not much seeing how you are using featherboards, is not going to affect anything. You will have more negative affect from the bows in your wall than your cuts.
> If you are still worried about it, cut your boards in half like you are doing, but run each half through again just taking off a little bit, and it will be easier to make the final cut that way.
> 
> - jbay


It can still rise up about 1/16 th if I don't apply pressure by hand in some way. Then it is very awkward to push the board through without stopping and re positioning my pushing hand.

I get that this is not fine wood working, but I still prefer to do things the best way reasonably possible.

In terms of safety, I really think the circular saw is probably the best way to go. It also allows for a nice continuous movement. I just need to see if there is some relatively simple way to set this up. Some way to have the straight edge secured and then place the stock on something and clamp it, without interfering with the saw.

The material itself isn't wide enough to clamp my straight edge into it and still have the minimum needed between the fence and blade. There's a way I'm sure, just need to think it through and the decide if it is worth the trouble.

Thanks again to all for their inputs.


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

Rip to 6", then crosscut, you don't actually NEED a single 8' cleat do you? Then bevel the shorter pieces …

Also, a little spread in the bevel won't be seen nor will it weaken the cleat.

M


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

> Rip to 6", then crosscut, you don t actually NEED a single 8 cleat do you? Then bevel the shorter pieces …
> 
> Also, a little spread in the bevel won t be seen nor will it weaken the cleat.
> 
> ...


I'm covering an entire wall with french cleats. Some runs are 24 ft long. So yes, while I could work with shorter pieces, it makes the rest of the job harder.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Clin
"Since you seem to have feather boards in place I don t know home you re getting rise on your material? If you don t have a problem ripping at 90 degrees just rip them at 90 degrees first and then go back a cut the individual pieces at 45 degrees.
- a1Jim

Because holding a board down at one edge is no assurance it is flat on the other side. Even if just 3" away. You lose a lot of mechanical advantage holding something down at about 1/2" from one edge, and the area of interest being 3" away. Meaning if it took 5 lbs of force to hold it flat where you want, you would need about 30 lbs at the fence from the feather board."

If must be a technique problem,I've been ripping sheet goods for 30 years and don't recall having this problem.I was thinking you might have a small table saw but it looks like you have a good saw. sounds like you have your own approach. Here's one more. LOL


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

a1Jim,

The issue really is the bevel cuts. If wood rises a bit on a typical 90 deg cut, it doesn't change the geometry of the cut. But with a 45 degree tilt to the blade, a rise in the stock also widens the cut.

Another complicating thing with a bevel, the blade is wider across making it trickier to stay clear of it. Also, all the feather boards on the fence are in the way for using wider push blocks or my preferred push block as Grrper.

Maybe if I can find the kid's old roller blades I can put them to use on this.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

The new "ACME" fully adjustable hold down.


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## jerryminer (Jun 15, 2014)

How about a spacer between the featherboard and the fence?


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

@clin - I didn't mean to go buy a second fence, but to make something up. You could even just clamp a long 2×3 to the table, tall side up, with a feather board clamped to that.


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

@Clin - I understand your project of creating the cleats for an entire wall. But, the stud spacing should be fairly uniform - either 16 inches on center or 24.

Given that, I would cut the pieces into at least 4 foot sections. Just but the pieces so they fit over a stud and secure them to the wall. I had added on to my cleats and had no problem doing as I suggested.

Just a thought.

Also, make sure your blade is sharp and designed to rip. I can see where the blade could have trouble making the cut and as you push the work piece, it wants to rise up due to resistance.

Good luck. Take your time and be careful.
Post some pics of your project anytime. We like pics.


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

Without reading twenty one replies here's your fix clin. You said you were ripping the stock in half on the second time around with the desired angle. That's the problem, ripping in half. I know you're probably trying to save some time by increasing capacity. Change your rip widths so when ripping the angle on them you're only removing little more than necessary to achieve the finished piece. I was just making a shelf hung by french cleats a few days ago. That's it. It'll take longer but be safer.


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

> How about a spacer between the featherboard and the fence?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is an idea I had mentioned I might try earlier. I think it's one of the options I'm going to try next. Since it is trivial to setup.



> @clin - I didn t mean to go buy a second fence, but to make something up. You could even just clamp a long 2×3 to the table, tall side up, with a feather board clamped to that.
> 
> - dhazelton


Thanks for the clarification. I've got a 2×4, 8 footer that might work well for that. On edge it might even be stiff enough to still do something. Actually, here's a time I'd want a 2×4 with some bend in it. It's a nice simple idea.

I think between this and getting the other feather board out a bit from the fence might get me to where I'd like to be on this.

And if not, I'm still giving the circular saw idea some thought as well.


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

> Without reading twenty one replies here s your fix clin. You said you were ripping the stock in half on the second time around with the desired angle. That s the problem, ripping in half. I know you re probably trying to save some time by increasing capacity. Change your rip widths so when ripping the angle on them you re only removing little more than necessary to achieve the finished piece. I was just making a shelf hung by french cleats a few days ago. That s it. It ll take longer but be safer.
> 
> - devann


Yes and no. When I make the first bevel cut, it is my intention that the piece between the fence and blade is a finish cut. But the cut off is intentionally a hair oversized. I know there's no way I'm going to get it cut exactly in have. So I do run that cutoff back through to resize it.

Of course there is less wood to force flat, but I find I still need to push it down a bit. It's actually more obvious to see when removing just a bit like that.

As it is now, I'm getting okay results, but it's very awkward having to still apply some down pressure and feed very slick, pre-finished plywood. So hopefully some of the options will allow me to use both hands to feed the wood.

I'm thinking I might have at this today and see how it goes.


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

Well, I read all 24 posts, and not one poster questioned the blade. It looks pretty thin to me, and from what I could see, looks like about 2 dozen teeth above the plate. Even if the blade is not dull, it will cause the wood to rise up especially since it looks like you don't have the blade raised very high. 
Also, you're cutting a strip of wood to go onto the back of your cabinet and wall. A 1/16" difference isn't going to make a bit of difference if your level is accurate, and you have both pieces level on the wall and cabinet…..

Another thing, with all those clamps on your fence, even though it's a SS, you have created a hazard in my opinion…. Too much crap in the way of getting the job done, and where is the riving knife? ............. Jerry (in Tucson)


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

L shaped bracket extending about 1" short of blade clamped to fence.

I would just use a push block hold it between blade and fence while feeding stock with other hand.
Once stock is close enough to block just move it through.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

I'd just rip it and be done.


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

> Well, I read all 24 posts, and not one poster questioned the blade. It looks pretty thin to me, and from what I could see, looks like about 2 dozen teeth above the plate. Even if the blade is not dull, it will cause the wood to rise up especially since it looks like you don t have the blade raised very high.
> Also, you re cutting a strip of wood to go onto the back of your cabinet and wall. A 1/16" difference isn t going to make a bit of difference if your level is accurate, and you have both pieces level on the wall and cabinet…..
> 
> Another thing, with all those clamps on your fence, even though it s a SS, you have created a hazard in my opinion…. Too much crap in the way of getting the job done, and where is the riving knife? ............. Jerry (in Tucson)
> ...


Blade is typical 1/8" thick blade. I've been running the blade with the teeth clear of the top of the wood. But certainly the blade would provide more down force the higher up it is. Whether that would actually help in this case I don't know. Though I have had the sense that it is trying to climb up the blade. So raising the blade is something I'll keep in mind.

Riving knife is there. It's just happens the photo caught the blade and knife on edge, making it hard to see the riving knife.

The "crap" is needed to address the issue of holding the stock flat. Since you read all the posts you are aware that I mentioned this was pre-finished plywood and very slick. If it weren't pre-finished and had now bow, it would probably be pretty easy to just walk it through using a pair of push blocks.



> L shaped bracket extending about 1" short of blade clamped to fence.
> 
> I would just use a push block hold it between blade and fence while feeding stock with other hand.
> Once stock is close enough to block just move it through.
> ...


Again, this is pre-finished plywood and very slick. I'm cutting 8 ft long pieces. After the first few feet enough dust gets on the surface that even push blocks like Grrpers won't stick to it. It is also pretty hard to get a grip on it with just one hand.

But this wasn't a question of how to do it, but rather how to do it better and safer. I've pretty much been doing it as you mentioned. Takes a death grip with one hand and then I have to stop the feed to re-position to feed in more. Makes for rougher cut that way.



> I d just rip it and be done.
> 
> - TheFridge


Why didn't I think of that!


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

I plowed ahead with about 500 ft of total cuts this afternoon and put a block between the feather boards and fence to hold the feather boards closer to the blade and cut line.

That seemed to work well. When running the cut off through to resize it, I could see a nearly uniform strip I was trimming. That's a good sign the first cut was pretty true.

I also looked at setting up a fence and feather board to hold the cutoff part down, but realized this was in the way of the mag-switch feather board pushing the stock into the fence. So in the end, I didn't do that.

With this approach it allowed me to use both hands to feed the wood in and that kept the feed moving. Still gets a bit tricky at the end to use push stick to get the end through, but it worked out.

I did this before reading Nubsnstubs's comments, but it might have been interesting to have seen what it may have felt like with the blade higher. I'll probably be cutting a bit more of this before I'm done, and I'm going to experiment with blade height the next time.

Even though I stayed with the table saw, I do think mandatory66's suggestion of a track saw is the ideal way to do this type of thing.

And I'm still interested in the possibility of using Board Buddies or similar. More than one way to skin a cat.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

My cat hates that saying.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

Don't know if someone mentioned it yet, but I found it helpful to level the ZCI to the tablesaw, and make sure the outfeed is perfectly flat with the top. That way the featherboards don't have to work too hard.

Good luck with it.


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

> Don t know if someone mentioned it yet, but I found it helpful to level the ZCI to the tablesaw, and make sure the outfeed is perfectly flat with the top. That way the featherboards don t have to work too hard.
> 
> Good luck with it.
> 
> - pintodeluxe


No question with relatively narrow cuts, the insert plays a more significant role in supporting the wood. I do make an effort to keep the insert aligned with the top. Erring on the side of the insert low in front and high in back so stock doesn't catch on it.

I keep my outfeed a hair lower (< 1/32") just to make sure the wood doesn't catch on it. I find just about anything will droop a bit under it's own weight and not lift very much at the blade. But I agree, you want the outfeed table to support the wood. That's what it's there for.


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