# Hinges for narrow face frame cabinets?



## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

I'm building some cabinets with narrow face frames and am wondering if anyone knows a good hinge to use off hand. Looking for European style that will do an overlay and have near zero clearance. Doors are gonna be close together.
Thanks ahead of time.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Well gee, how narrow is narrow?


> Are the face frames going protrude into the cabinet or going to be flush


 Are the face face frames going to stick out beyond the exterior of the cabinet??


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Assuming inset doors, Blums or other cup hinges can 
work. You need to look at the various clearances 
offered by the different mounting plates. In terms
of half-overlay doors, you may need to build wood
mounting blocks for the hinge mounting plates in 
order to get them to work right.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

I think I will make the stiles about 1" to 1 1/4" wide so that with the overlay the doors will be close together. I can make the face frame whatever I need to to get the look I need, which is where you don't really see the face frame with doors closed.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

I found some blums on amazon. My main concern is clearance when the door opens, so that the adjacent door is not in the way.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I'm not aware of a a cup hinge that will do that. Maximum overlay
is around 3/4" with full overlay hinges and tweaking the cup
hole location. Maybe you can get a bit more overlay by putting 
a clearance bevel on the door edge, but you'd certainly 
be using the hinge for a job it isn't designed for.

If you want to do the half-overlay look on a 1.5" face frame
(which is equivalent to butting two frameless cases side
by side) then you can use full overlay hinges.

There are some surface mount hinges and maybe some
double-jointed cup hinges that can do fancy tricks
with larger overlays I think.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Ok thanks Loren and alaskaguy.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

I guess I'm being dense but I still don't fully understand what you're asking. It sound like a frameless cabinet with full overlay doors would do what you want.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Yeah, Alaska, essentially that's it. I'm building these with MDO, so I want to have a face frame to hide the plywood edges, but I can just make it the same thickness as plywood and use hinges for frameless cabinet. You're not dense. I've never built frameless cabinets before. I'm dense.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

keep in mind if you want near 0 gaps between doors the wood can move through the seasons causing problems when they expand or shrink. What material you using for the doors?


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

I'm not looking for that close. Maybe 3/8". I'm using MDF for the doors.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Here's a little something I found on the ''woodweb site".

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Gap_Spacing_Between_Full_Overlay_Doors.html


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Thanks for looking that up. My client did not make any particular request, just drew a rough drawing looking somewhat like full overlays. I'm sure he would be happy with 3/8 or so between. My main concern was making sure I got hinges to do what I want to do. I want enough clearance so that doors back to back can each open at the same time.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

I'm thinking I'll build cabinets basically frameless and use half overlays on one side and full overlays on the other side and that will give me the most even spacing.


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## LeeBarker (Aug 6, 2010)

Euro hinges do just what you want to do-down to 3mm between doors, both being hinged. That's 1/8.

The hinges allow the door to come toward you as it is opening. That's their magic, along with the three way adjustability.

So, you could make your stiles 1.5 inches wide and use 5/8" overlay hinges and get what you want.

However, it would be much easier to edgeband the box pieces before you assemble them, drill them for shelf pins and use those holes for box mount hinge plates, and drill your doors to match the hinge layout that they (the line bores) give you.

You would need:

edgebanding
An applicator of some kind. The Virutex hand held is very good; down from that the small iron= that Rockler sells.

Others do it with a household iron. The smaller one is simpler. You'll need a 35mm bit too. And an edgebanding trimmer (the simpler the better).

You will also need a basic shelf pin drilling jig. The Rockler one is simple and effective and, because of the drill bit design, will last a long time.

The hardware will end up being box mount plates and screw-on hinges.

I hope this doesn't sound overwhelming. The money you will spend on these minor but effective tools will be small tuition for the joyful learning you go through on this project, not to mention the grief it will save you in the puny-faceframe department.

Here is the book that got me safely through the transition from FF to Euro cabinetry. (I note that the new copies are 44 bucks and the "collectible" ones are $15. : ))

Disclaimer: I am in no way associated with Rockler. Like all vendors, they have some really good stuff and some stuff that has a terminal case of gismoitis.

Kindly,

Lee


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Check this out too:

http://www.cabsystems.com/KISSII/KIIrivDe-mail.pdf


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Thanks Lee. I do have a shelf pin jig that came from woodcraft it works well. The only problem I have had is the bit freezing up occasionally. Have to take it apart and clean it out, but then works fine. I considered edge banding. Truth be told I would prefer face frames. Like you said, either way I can get the same look by choosing the right hinge overlay size. I like to do my face frames with pocket holes and would not really want to do that with the puny frames as you called it.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

I'll read that, thanks Loren.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Firefighterrontheside You said "My client did not make any particular request, just drew a rough drawing looking somewhat like full overlays. I'm sure he would be happy with 3/8 or so between."

Personally I'd get together with my client and find out exactly what he wants. Assuming what a paying customer wants can lead to unhappy customers that expects you to make good out of your pocket. Getting all the details down right is your responsibility as a cabinetmaker maker for hire.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

You're right alaskaguy, the client is a fellow firefighter, who basically drew something on a piece of paper with his ideas and some sizes and then said he trusted me with the rest. He will be happy either way I'm sure. I showed him my scale drawing of how it will look from the front and he was very happy. I just figured there were a few different ways to make it look like that with the doors closed. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## woodchuckerNJ (Dec 4, 2013)

Most every manufacturer makes for different overlay sizes and different face frame sizes. You just have to read their specs which can be daunting..


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I make simple mockups to make sure I can get the reveal
I want with a cup hinge. I've tweaked them by changing
the bore location and I always do the mockup to make
sure the door will open properly. The specs don't tell
you how far you can push it.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Ok, gonna do face frames now. I'm gonna buy these hinges from Blum. Adjustments on the overlay should help make it easier. 
http://www.amazon.com/Blum-B038N355C-08-Degrees-Compact-Screw-On/dp/B005I4J374/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398021962&sr=8-1&keywords=Blum+38n

Thanks for all the replies


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

That's a good idea Loren.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Silly website. I know you commented Loren, from my email, but can't see it here. They're 1/2 overlay but say they'll adjust from 3/8 to 3/4.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Those are face frame hinges. I was thinking surface mount.

I haven't played with that style much.


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## NoThanks (Mar 19, 2014)

Here is the reveal for that hinge if you haven't seen it already










Here is the page you can go to download brochures on the hinges if you need to.
http://www.blum.com/us/en/01/20/10/


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Sorry Loren, I was always thinking European style, but I kept going back and forth between frameless and face frame.

Thanks iwud4u, good to know. As Loren suggested I can also ease the edges and get a little more clearance, which I'm sure I will.


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