# Can use some DC suggestions please



## jesinfla (Apr 15, 2015)

I'm in the process of laying out my dust system (diagram below) - I'm sure this won't be my final layout, but until I get better at this, this is what it is.

Being on a tight budget I'm using 2" pvc pipe, 2 1/2" hose (from amazon) and 3" hose clamps and lots of duct tape LOL. I make my own connectors for joining the hose to the pvc pipe using 4" pvc cuts and PVC T connectors - seems to be working fine at the moment.

Anyway…

I've been looking at various layouts etc and one thing I notice is some of them have gates to turn on and off the flow of air to various stations.

I'm assuming this is to maximize the airflow (vac pressure?) to the stations that are currently in use?

If that is correct, using my diagram below and using the VAC as the starting point - would I insert gates:

1. Just after the VAC T connector - for the Table saw.
2. Just after the T connector Misc - I use this for a router table, jig saw table, and hand drilling on the work bench etc. (I don't have a bench drill anymore)
3. Just after the T connector for the sander

I know there is a lot of pipe between the sander and the miter saw, but that's just how it worked out. Normally, my bench drill would sit in the corner between the sander and the miter saw.










Thanks as always in advance for the advice - it is greatly appreciated


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## kdc68 (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm no expect at dust collection, so take my advice with a grain of salt…...
v
You should probably use "Y's" (wye's) instead of "T's" because of less restriction of air. Everywhere except at the Vac location. I don't know an appropriate PVC fitting to go in opposite directions from the Vac except for maybe a double "Y" (wye) ??

I would have a blast gate on both sides of the "T" at the Vac area. That way you can utilize all the suction at the table saw when using it. Close it when you are working at the bench, sander, or miter saw.

There should be two blast gates at each tool location. One for the tool, the other for the run.

>When using the work bench you can close the gate in the run going to the sander and miter saw.

>When using the sander, you can close the gate to the bench and the gate in the run going to the miter saw.

>When at the miter saw, have the gates closed at the bench and sander. Open all gates in the run from the vac to the miter saw.

>All these scenarios the blast gate to the table saw is closed

You should probably use two 45's in each corner or a long sweep 90 instead of a standard 90. Don't want too many sharp bends. Connect a 45 on each end of a short piece of PVC to form the bend.

That is a long way around your workshop to reach your miter saw, which happen to be a very difficult machine to collect dust.

To me, by the time you purchase all the PVC pipe and fittings to go around the shop from the sander to the miter saw you could buy a cheap shop vac just for the miter saw and place it by the fan.

End the first run at the sander and eliminate everything from behind the sander around 2 corners to the miter saw. Your layout is better suited for a dust collector. Probably more than 1 shop vac can handle effectively.
v
Hopefully someone that "knows" dust collection can chime in…..good luck


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

When you say "vac" is it a shop vac?
If so, it will not work for a DC system like you have designed.
It simply does not have the CFM's.

If it is a standard DC, then:

1. The ducts are too small. Absolute minimum is 4", 6" best.
Use DWV (thin wall).
You'll need at least an 800 CFM DC, 1000 better 1400 best. That puts you in the 1 1/2 - 2 HP range.

2. Your layout need some tweeking.
a. the 2 90's are going to impact your air flow.
b. I would come off the DC with a couple 45's and run a main duct down the center, branching off as needed.
c. The sander, TS and MS are fine dust producers and its best to have them closest to DC.

3. Optimize air flow
a. use 2-45's with a short section of pipe for 90's.
b. use Y's for your branches.
c. 4" for your drops. You can use flex duct to the machines it will fit right over 4" pvc.
d. don't glue the joints. screw or rivet and tape to seal.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Mr. Engel speaks with much wisdom Grasshopper.
Bill


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## jesinfla (Apr 15, 2015)

Thanks all - yes it's a normal shop vac - it's all I have at the moment

I like the idea of a main duct down the center and branching off that - I'm going to draw that up.

Unfortunately, the shop vac is the best I can do at the moment. Being new to this hobby, I don't want to/can't spend a lot of money on things - I'm using wood I've had laying around for ever to make my jigs and practice stuff.

I've yet to be able to find pvc and hose/ducting that fits together - I'll go back and look into the flex duct and 4" pvc

At least I can reuse the 2.5" and build my spray booth with it LOL

Thanks for the advice everyone, much appreciated - although not what I wanted to hear lmao


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## jesinfla (Apr 15, 2015)

Updated my drawing from suggestions - I like this way better:


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## kdc68 (Mar 2, 2012)

Do you want some blast gates ?

I have a bunch (say 10) that will work for 2" PVC and 2-1/2" flex hose. The gate on one end is 2-1/2" O.D. and 1-15/16 O.D. on the other. As you can see in the photos below that these will fit a flex hose on one end (clamp needed) and on the other will fit a 2" PVC (with a duct tape wrapped around a couple of times). You could drive a self taping screw to secure that end.

If you want them all you have to do is pay postage…..Personal message me your info and we can work out the details. If you have pay pal, that would be an easy transaction…..
v








v


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## kdc68 (Mar 2, 2012)

The pot got a little sweeter…..

I found 4 more blast gates (pictured above) for a total of 14

Also (pictured below) I have:
6- 2" wyes
3 - 2" 45's
15 - 2-1/2" hose clamps

All this is yours if you pay shipping. I'm in a groove getting my shop cleared out of things I don't need anymore. Storing and keeping everything good/bad/no longer wanted or needed been years in the making. It's got to go, and I'd rather give it away than throw it out…..

Again, PM me to work out the details. Pay pal would work out great for reimbursement of shipping….


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## kdc68 (Mar 2, 2012)

Your PM has been answered


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## jesinfla (Apr 15, 2015)

Thx kdc68 - msg sent and thank you very much for your offer


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## kdc68 (Mar 2, 2012)

Your next PM answered….


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

> Updated my drawing from suggestions - I like this way better:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This system will not work with a shop vac.
I'd hate to see you put the time and money into it.
Hope you haven't bought the blast gates…..

Your best bet is individual machine hookups and move the vac around.
For the money you're gonna spend get a Dust Deputy and canister.
Make sure you've got a good HEPA filter on your vac.

FYI your Y branches are aimed the wrong way they should go back toward the vac.
Good luck.


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## kdc68 (Mar 2, 2012)

Your next PM answered….


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## exelectrician (Oct 3, 2011)

Gather the "filtered air" and pipe it OUTSIDE - It is the fine stuff that does the most damage to your health.


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## jesinfla (Apr 15, 2015)

> Gather the "filtered air" and pipe it OUTSIDE - It is the fine stuff that does the most damage to your health.
> 
> - exelectrician


Thanks - but not sure how I would do that  making holes in my garage isn't that appealing to me, I'm thinking about making a cyclone like container to add to my system.

The shop vac is 3.5 hp so it should suck stuff up pretty good, no?


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## kdc68 (Mar 2, 2012)

Sent you another PM with shipping info.

Thanks Jessie


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## nerdbot (Sep 3, 2014)

jesinfla,

I had similar thoughts and questions a couple months ago when planning my DC. My shop vac is 5.5 HP so I thought that would be "good" enough too. See Crank50's response:

http://lumberjocks.com/replies/1263458

If I understand correctly, shop vacs are high pressure, and move low volumes of air and are good for things that eject dust and chips very quickly. Suction will drop quickly across longer runs with a shop vac, and so you may find that the dust collection at your miter saw very poor. Dust collectors are low pressure and move high volumes of air, and can keep dust moving on longer runs.

I had previously thought about running 4" pipes and just giving it a try with the shop vac first to see how bad it really was. I figured if it were really that bad, I would swap the shop vac out for a DC, since the ductwork wouldn't really change. But, I got busy with other things, so I've stuck with just moving my shop vac/dust deputy combo from tool to tool while I saved up for a HF dust collector. Hope to get the DC later this month.


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## nerdbot (Sep 3, 2014)

Sorry, forgot you updated your diagram. In your new diagram, your sander will probably have the worst dust collection since it's the furthest away from your vac.


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## kdc68 (Mar 2, 2012)

Shipping confirmation. Check your PM for an update


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## AZWoody (Jan 18, 2015)

After running a trial in my shop, I found that even 4" with a oneida cyclone hooked to a modified Harbor Freight dust collector that had no filtration on the back end to let the air flow without any obstruction as a test still does not do a satisfactory job of collecting the fine dust from the point of collection. I tested points at 15 feet, 25 feet and 35 feet and even at the closest points, still not enough cfm.

After spending the money on all of that, I have had to scrap it and upgrade to a system that will allow me to rub 6" ducting to every machine.

If you're just wanting to collect chips, to keep your floor clean, then you can probably get away with just the dust vac. If you're looking for actual dust collection, you're going to need a dedicated dust collector. If you don't want to go the ducting route, you can get some that are mobile and can be wheeled around to the various tools.


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## jesinfla (Apr 15, 2015)

thanks nerdbot and azwoody,

Yah, I'm too new to know exactly what I need but I figure something is better than nothing to start.

I'm going to work with the shop vac for now, run some 2 1/2" tubing to my stations with some shut off gates and see how that goes.

I don't run any of my stations that long, probably my table saw and miter saw get way more usage at the moment and I have to vacuum after each sessions use (I realize there are micro particles that my vac won't get) - my sander doesn't even have a belt on it yet LOL.

I'm still only doing rough cut projects - shelves, jigs, mobile tables kinda things - no where near ready to do any kind of finishing work yet.

Your advice is of course appreciated - If I ever do get to the point of need real dust collection, I was thinking of one of the harbor freight ones - think there is a 70 gal and 13 gal mobile solution. For now, my shop vac has to be the beast 

What I am doing for my miter and table saws is running 2 hoses to each: miter saw I run one hose attached to the miter saw directly, and one inside the dust hood at the base of the saw - these seem to catch a great deal of the dust.

For the table saw - I'm building a 2 1/2" dust hood for the bottom (it currently has a sack with a 10" opening LOL) and working on an overhead arm hood for the blade (kinda like a guard with a hose attached to it) - there was a comment from Routerisstillmyname on my project and I looked at his and it's exactly what I want to try and re-create.

Hopefully, this will all work it self out over time - hopeful thinking I know lol


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