# Gaps in S4S Pine for Tabletop



## Halloballa (Sep 2, 2020)

Hi folks. I am new to woodworking, and new to this forum. It looks great! I hate to post a question first thing but I could not find an answer through the search function.

I am building a desk for the first time. I have virtually zero experience. I have built the frame of the desk using 2×4s and a pocket hole jig. What a great method. The frame is far more square and sturdy than anything I have built before.

For the desk top, I am struggling. I had hoped that the S4S 1×8 yellow pine boards i bought would be straighter than they are… my intent was to join them together using pocket screws and glue.

I do not have a planer or jointer. I do have access to a table saw, but have never used one.

2 questions please:
1) is it possible to close spaces ibetween the boards by using pocket screws?
2) I know you are supposed to alternate the grain on the boards, but when I do that the spaces are bigger… how important is this?

Thanks in advance!

Craig


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## Bstrom (Aug 30, 2020)

You'll need more tools to get your table top joined up. Until then, you might use a local woodworking service to joint the edges for your glue-up. A jack plane could also be used but it takes practice and some spare wood to go that route…


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## avsmusic1 (Jul 10, 2016)

are you going for a rustic look?

Option 1: If it's a farmhouse/rustic vibe you're going for then you may just lean into to gaps and live with it provided the majority of the edges are ok (and therefore offering enough glue surface to properly join)

Option 2: find a local shop to joint the edges for you solving the issue

Option 3: build a jig for the tablesaw to joint edges

A few other things of note… you don't need pocket screws if you have clamps. The glue is plenty strong on a long grain joint and the screws may pull your boards out of alignment if everything isn't clamped down REALLY well. Also, 8" wide flat sawn pine boards are probably going to move on you if you're in an area of seasonal humidity shifts. This will lead to an unlevel surface and more rustic vibe either way


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## PlentyFarmLLC (Aug 25, 2020)

Table saws are inherently dangerous. Get someone knowledgeable to assist. 8" is a little wide for glue up panels, narrower width boards are easier to work with to reduce the effects of wood movement. Rip one straight edge on each of your boards on the table saw. Then with the straight board edge you just cut against the saw fence, rip each board into 3-4" widths. The saw edge should be good enough to glue up. Ideally they would be jointed. Glue these together to get the width table top you need. You will need several bar clamps. Do not use pocket holes for the panel glue up. Glue and clamps is all you need. On youtube search "glue up wood panels". You didn't say the length of your table but gluing shorter panels would be a lot easier to learn on.


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## Halloballa (Sep 2, 2020)

Thank you for the replies. This gives me a lot of food for thought. Appreciate the safety tips as well.

At this point I think I will see if I can return the wood and start over with narrower boards maybe S2S and have the edges straightened at the lumberyard.

Then glue and clamps and no pocket screws.

Thanks again. I'll post a picture when finished.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

The safest way for you to joint the edges is a router with a bearing guided bit (pattern or flush trim bit) and a straight edge.

But I think you should consider plywood for the top. 1×2 edge banding would be easy to apply.

Also, be aware that pocket screws, while very appealing to both newbies and pros alike, simply cannot replace joinery for something like this.

I strongly recommend you reinforce the legs. One hard bump by a vacuum cleaner, moving, etc. and you may be very disappointed :-(

I recommend you install glue blocks glue and screw into the leg and apron.


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## ChefHDAN (Aug 7, 2010)

Craig, welcome to LJ, there is an incredible wealth of knowledge here to help you as you start your journey. Rolling right into furniture without many of the basic tools we use to get straight, square, and true stock is a serious challenge. Much of what you need to do can be done with a good hand plane for about $20 at most flea markets. Sadly, you cannot buy multiple years of experience at a flea market. There are methods to use a straightedge cutting guide and a TS to get your panel together, but i'ts not the ideal method. There are some "cheats" to get around not having a jointer, you can search TS jointing on YouTube for ideas, or there are methods with a router too, but if i were in your shoes I'd be looking for a #7, #6 or at minimum a #5 hand plane to do the joints. Don't expect perfection in your early pieces, even after all my years my wife will always say, "you're the only person that will ever notice that". What is important is to make sawdust and learn from every piece you build


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Hand tool work I find to be very fascinating and rewarding. It is quieter and produces less dust. It is also space friendly and safer. It also means a lot of practice and requires time to develop skills. Scour YouTube for things that interest you and dig deep into what ever is the task at hand. A word About planes and chisels, they need to be scary sharp! So without the ability to sharpen, hone and the skill to do it right it will be an uphill battle.


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## avsmusic1 (Jul 10, 2016)

> The safest way for you to joint the edges is a router with a bearing guided bit (pattern or flush trim bit) and a straight edge.


a great option


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## Halloballa (Sep 2, 2020)

Hi everyone. Thank you so much for all your advice. I completed my desk. In the end, you all helped me realize that this project was going to be much harder than I anticipated, but also gave me great suggestions. Since the desk is only for me to work in the garage, I decided that I would just do the best with what I had available. So I bought some nice planks "straight" on 4 sides. I put the 2×4 frame together with the kreg jig, and then set to work on the table top. I glued all the boards together and clamped it up. Let it dry and sanded and sanded and sanded. Sanding is hard to get everything the same level and because I had a lot of sanding to do since no planer or jointer.

I attached the top to the frame using just wood glue Then I finished it with minwax polycrylic clear. That was way harder than I imagined, and I am too impatient for that. But in the end, the desk is great. Many, many imperfections, but it works as designed. Only problem is that one corner of the desk raises up on days with high humidity. I need to either re glue it or screw it down I guess.

Anyway, thanks for all your help folks! Just wanted to share a picture and share my appreciation.


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## jdh122 (Sep 8, 2010)

It looks nice. But I worry when I read that you attached the solid wood top with glue. It needs to expand and contract cross its width with the seasons. The glue won't allow that and the stretchers you've glued it to won't expand along their length, so it's pretty likely to develop splits in the top. Pine moves less than a lot of hardwoods, so there's a slight chance you'll get away with it, but I'd be surprised. A search on LJ for "attach table top" will show you the various ways it's usually done (z-clips, 8-clips, wood buttons), almost all of which involve screws.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Looks great! Take a look at some of the completed projects here and it will give you a feel as to how far you can take this hobby if you like it.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

Awesome, they main point is that you learned from this. Sometimes the only way to learn is through mistakes


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

> But I worry when I read that you attached the solid wood top with glue. It needs to expand and contract cross its width with the seasons. The glue won t allow that and the stretchers you ve glued it to won t expand along their length, so it s pretty likely to develop splits in the top.
> - jdh122


This^^ good possibility it will happen with that width.

The best lessons are ones learned the hard way.


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## Jimarco (May 15, 2015)

Good job


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## Halloballa (Sep 2, 2020)

Thanks for the comments, much appreciated. Talk about learning from mistakes (tabletop glued on).

I did some research and learned more about how to properly attach this type of table top. Another lesson would be not to be in too much of a hurry to get your project done that you don't do the necessary research!

The good news, I guess, is that if it splits I will get to do it again. I will definitely find a way to get the planing and jointing done properly next time, and then also attach it properly.

Thanks again all! Much obliged.


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