# Can we talk chisels?



## Bertha

There's a lot of discussion around here about planes…and I'm prone to chime in on most of it. Does anyone want to talk about chisels? I am very fond of chisels, straight or swan, skew or flat, short or fat, tang or socket. What kind of chisels do you prefer for paring, chopping, and mortising? Do you prefer tang or socket? What brands do you admire? I'm very anxious to expand my knowledge base, particularly about brands to which I'm naive.

For paring, I like a wide chisel with a short, fat, round handle. For chopping, I like cheap chisels with the handles bobbed-down. For mortising, I like a very high quality chisel, either pigsticker or socket. I really enjoy Witherby socket and Butcher tang chisels. I also like the vintage Stanley 750 line. I weep over Damascus Japanese varieties.

*Give your favorite chisel some love & share its story here.*

W. Butcher tang in rosewood










T.H. Witherby socket in cocobolo and tulip


----------



## swirt

I'm much more fond of socket chisels than tang. For some reason, drilling a straight hole in a handle escapes my grasp. LOL

I have grown kind of partial to chisels made by D R Barton. They were made in my home town from 1832 to the early 1900's. They aren't too difficult to find for a tool that age. I have a couple of old Witherbys and they are nice, but my long term goal is to end up with a complete set of D R Bartons. Mainly just for the challenge of it.


----------



## Bertha

Now see, that's exactly what I'm talking about, Swirt! That's as good a reason as I've ever heard for chasing a brand. Chisels seem to have that extra "something" that makes me want to collect them. If any were made in my home town, I'd be all over them. I'm pretty sure I have a few Bartons in my collection. I'm definitely going to look tonight.


----------



## swirt

I have been happy with the Barton quality. I started with a Barton drawknife, then some chisels, then a couple wooden planes, then a side-axe… The brand alone won't cause me to pick one up, but it does help tip me off the fence if I am having trouble deciding. 

Some dating info here in case you are interested http://www.davistownmuseum.org/bioBarton.html


----------



## cabmaker

I use vintage stanley #40 s. Because I have a full set of them. I use them for any occasion a chisel is needed. They do hold an edge very well, and they are very rugged. I have grabbed up a few spares over the years but they are difficult to come by.


----------



## dkirtley

swirt:

Neener neener neener. Thos Witherby from 1/8 to 2" in an original box  - by eighths. But they are varying condition and all need to be rehandled. What is commonly referred to as a harlequin set.

I really have an embarrassment of chisels. I just like them. What can I say? In a previous life, I used to scour flea markets and garage sales and sell off extras to fund my "affliction."

I prefer to use registered chisels most times. I have one old Isaac Greaves that is my real go to chisel. 1-1/4 socket firmer. It just "feels right" for most stuff. Looks like this one but a lot better condition (but this one in pic would probably clean up pretty)

http://theoldtoolshed.co.uk/products/175-early-isaac-greaves-chisel.aspx :









A bunch of really frightening socket chisels and gouges (up to 19" blade to end of socket kind of scarey.) Going up in range to 3 1/2 in or so.
Just not too long ago picked up a set of Japanese style chisels from Grizzly. I actually like them a lot.
Sets of mortise chisels and gouges. (Modern vintage)
A set of firmers from Crown I believe (old Woodworkers Supply house brand)
Corner chisels (bruzz) in a couple sizes.

A pile of orphan chisels that I have not had time to get into use on the bottom shelf of my small workbench. They make great stocking stuffers.


----------



## Bertha

Cabmaker, I really like the #40's as well. I like that deep, prismatic taper on the bevel side. They're definitely a beefy chisel. I don't own any myself to my knowledge, but you've got me thinking….


----------



## BillWhite

Well, glad to know that someone else has some W. Butcher stuff. I've collected several Butcher items (including a tennon saw), and find them to be excellect. Cast steel, and they really hold up well.
On subject…I have both socket and tang chisels.
Bill


----------



## ropedog

I like the socketed chisels because it is much easier to replace a handle, I have almost a full set of James Swans that I would not trade for anything,they hold a great edge and have done well on every type of wood I have thrown at them. They are probably 80 to 100 yours old. I also have an old set of Pexto's for my timber framing chisels. I like old hand tools.I also have a Swan draw knife same time frame.


----------



## Bertha

So, to tally (this is very exciting to me), I've learned about D.R. Barton and have a new reason to collect them (my man, Swift); Cab's got me re-interested in the Stanley #40's; I've found a fellow T.H.W. guy in D. Kirtley (who's got a set that might possibly threaten his life in real life; but this is the internet, thankfully); Bill's backing me up on the Butcher's & that's the first I'm hearing of a saw! Roper's in on the Swans (own a few) & gives a nod to the Pexto big boys.

This is glorious.


----------



## Bertha

Link to gentleman Kirtley's Graves above & zoom on the detail. If that doesn't give you the chisel-willies, nothing will. Spectacular!


----------



## TechRedneck

I am looking for a good set myself. I don't have the time to go to auctions or yard sales but could use a good set of new ones. Any suggestions? I noticed that Woodcraft and Woodpeckers have some sales this weekend.


----------



## Bertha

Hey Tech, the big box stores usually have sets of Irwin/Marples plastic-handles for around $20-30/set or so. I cut the handles off flat to a reasonable length for chopping & replace them when I ruin them. I've bought two-cherries-brand sets, which aI found rather nice for the bucks. Of course, you can hit up Japan Woodworker for some beautiful sets if you're willing to spend a bit more. I tend to have three types of chisels: 1) those that I beat to death (cheap; as above), 2) those high-end ones for specific tasks (mortising, etc.), and 3) those that I just admire. Good luck, my friend!


----------



## TechRedneck

Bertha,, I've heard others on LJ's talk about the Irwin's and stopped at Lowes to take a look at them, they did not have any and the sales clerk stated they were not stocking them anymore. I think Home Depot may have them. For that price I'll give them a try. I have a mortiser but always need to fine tune the joints. I am slowly coming to the realization that I may need a couple sets as you suggest. I would rather sharpen all the tools at once and grab them when needed, this goes for chisels and planes. MORE STUFF!!


----------



## swirt

Acquiring old Chisels to me is almost like a game of cards. You keep drawing and discarding until you have a hand you really like. Its kind of fun that way.

Of course David just took the pot with a complete set or Witherbys


----------



## MadBeaver

As of most of my wood working tool my Chisels are old. I prefer socket because you can't "hurt" the Chisel handle but the "tang" my fear would be to split the handle. Here are some of my Chisel they are larger, but my thought was I still could by a refine set later. Like Blue Sprue one nice set 

Pictures are in my Profile thx.

Chris


----------



## roman

My favorite chisel is sharp.

Second to that are my Lee Neilson

third my Marples

unlike an electric or air powered tool, chisels work great if they are sharp, if they are dull, no matter what you paid, they are are useless.


----------



## mafe

For me this is a difficult talk!
It is so difficult to advice on this, since it's so much feeling at the end.
I love vintage, and would at any day give away a new set of factory made chisels at any brand, for an old beautiful vintage quality set. But I do understand that some love to buy new, it's like with cars, some love a brand new, and some love a vintage car. When it comes to performance it's a matter of use first of all. A2 steel will hold a edge for a long time on a high angel grind so excellent for fieldwork and building, A1 steel will be preferable for a cabinetmakers chisels, and so. Some people like the look of a set of blue handle Irwin, some like a old worn vintage full of life, some like a new 'old school' wood handle that shines, some really don't give a s… for nothing but performance. At the end it's personal, and so it should not be a matter for discussion, but I see again and again people claiming that the plastic handle Irwin are no good, and this is wrong! I see again and again people claim that LN is the best, and this is wrong. I see again and again people saying that you can't find old chisels in a good quality and this is wrong. And so on. 
So when people ask what chisels they should buy they have to bring some info; price range, use and taste.
Me was one of those idiots who did not ask and just fly out to buy what I read was the best, so I bought a set of Bahco 434 and these are really wonderful chisels, but just not what I was looking for! So next step was to slowly build knowledge and try to find answers.
My personal answer for now:
A set of old English firmer chisels with their old original handles in box wood, these cut so wonderful and reminds me in use of the Japanese, they are excellent for paring. I guess due to the steel that are hard but not brittle. And they make me smile and think of 'the old days'.
A set of rebuild and rehandled old English chisels, that I changed into a dovetail set, fishtail, skewed and paring with short rounded handles for grip and control with the hand. These again are hard but able to have a low angel grind and be razor sharp. 
A set of old French mortise chisels made from their old military sword maker, I have just rehandled them in old style, and they are nothing less than wonderful. 
A set of Bacho 434, these are a set of wonderful chisels in excellent quality, but not for the workshop, they are for construction work, so they are rounded, much too hard steel for my taste, and made for site purpose, where they will hold a edge long (I prefer a sharp edge easy set, than a slowly more dull).
My sister are in Korea and are looking for a set of Japanese or Korean for me, I don't really have a relation to these, but since so many cabinetmakers love them, I will like to try and figure out why, and also I like the design.
So the ultimate set…
For me the; Ashley Iles Mk 2 Bevel Edged Cabinetmakers Chisels are the closest to perfection you can buy new today. They are handmade from the old Sheffield traditions and with A1 steel, so I plan on buying a set of six as soon as my budget allows. To me they hold more than quality, they are extremely flat, made of the best of steel, classic English handles, handmade by some of the best makers in the world. For me they have this touch of the hand that makes me smile, this I can't find in the Kirchen or LN versions, they look and feel machine made to me. But yes if someone has a full set of old 750 for the same price I'm in. 
And if I win the lottery I will buy the big Iles set. (I just wrote them yesterday to hear if I could buy one alone first to test the quality and feel before buying the set). 
(When you buy old chisels you will some knowledge and patience, you need to wait for the right price, the right type and at times you will have a bad boy in the class; either too hard and brittle or too soft with no hardening, but so what if you get them at a fair price and you know how to judge them. But if you are a beginner and don't want to spend time, buy a fair set of factory made like Kirchen, Bahco or Irwin, but choose the models that suits your needs not just the brand).
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## mafe

Ohhh yes I also have a set of vintage gauges from English and French produceres.
- and ofcourse some old Bahco Sandvic (these are wonderful chisels, with a fine edge and we have used these in Denmark for generations, the only dislike for me is a high side before the bevel).
LOL.
I think for me sharp is also the most important word.
So buy a good sharpening system, and sharpen 100 times with it, then you discover the secret of the chisel.


----------



## davidmicraig

I, unfortunately, get very little exposure to vintage woodworking tools. I can sometimes get a good deal on ebay for a hand plane, but the bids get carried away on the old chisels. The only vintage item that I have in this category is an old Pexto socket firmer chisel that was in a box of rusted tools that a friend found and gave me. I cleaned it up and it does hold a nice edge.

On the new front, I am pretty fond of the Narex chisels I have. Once flattened and sharpened, they keep their edge for a fair amount of use. I bought 4 bench chisels and two mortising chisels for around 80 bucks, delivered. I have no complaints in regards to their performance.

David


----------



## Bertha

Mads, thank you for this thoughtful comment, as I realize that it's a very personal topic for you. I appreciate the lore of chiselmaking, a sentiment you clearly share, as you own chisels produced by a swordsmith. I would agree that the Iles set is wonderful and VERY reasonably priced. A modest set of 6 for $150 or the monster 11-piece set for a bit over $300. That's a bargain, but of course, it's still money. For those that haven't seen them,

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=IL-100-40.XX&Category_Code=CIL

I would rehandle the MK2's but that's clearly a very personal preference. Handle shape is another topic entirely!

Another fine pigsticker is also found at the same seller:

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-MORT.XX&Category_Code=TBMC&Search=mortise chisel

For those with the disease and unlimited budget, the Tasai's are a thing of beauty:

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=05.303.50&dept_id=12766


----------



## Bertha

David, I own a few massive Pexto sockets and I'm quite fond of them. You're right about the Ebay bidding on older chisels, particularly Witherbys & particularly mortise chisels. I've resorted to buying large sets & selecting out the few I'm after. Like Swirt says, I'll pick my card & return the rest to the deck. I've gone overboard on Ebay for a missing component of my collection. All part of the game, I suppose.


----------



## swirt

I agree with Bertha about buying chisels on ebay. Usually the single chisels, especially in good shape go for a less than ideal price especially when you figure in shipping. I get better deals by looking at assorted sets, especially with those with missing or damaged handles. Thanks to the flat rate boxes here in the states, shipping a bunch of old chisels usually costs the same as shipping one. The discouraging part is that those selling a set of "junk" chisels rarely take the time to get good photos or document maker names or even sizes. Unfortunately those lacking all that info are the best deals because they go cheap, but they also carry the most risk of ending up with nothing but junk.


----------



## mafe

Al, look what I just made out of those old French mortice chisels.
I smile!
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## Bertha

^absolutely agree with Swirt. I can pay $40 for a Witherby in decent shape & spend another $10 shipping it. I'm usually going to replace the socket anyway. I can buy a whole box of assorted chisels for $20, many without handles, & pay $10 to ship the whole package. They're usually at least 80% losers but there's that rare gem in there somewhere. If you're not brand collecting, there's ALWAYS one in there that can be reshaped & rehandled (Just look at Mads' chisel alterations). I got a little dud mortise chisel with about an inch of blade left. I put a big, fat, mushroomed-shaped handle on it & it's now one of my favorite chisels. Your more likely to fashion a "special" chisel for a particular use in your shop if you paid $1 instead of $50 for it. I've now got a drawer full of "losers' that I can play with at zero risk.


----------



## Brit

I bought a set of Irwin blue chip chisels as my first set or at least the first set of chisels that I've tried to do decent woodworking with. I didn't want to spend a lot on a nice set because a) I didn't know which of the reputable brands I should go for, and b) I had to learn to sharpen chisels and figured I'd be better learning on a cheap set than ruining a set of LNs.

I've used the Irwins on a few projects now. I don't have any mortise chisels yet, so I drilled out my mortises and cleaned them up with the Irwins. They are very roughly machined on the backs and took a lot of flattening (I don't have a grinder either). They hold an edge reasonably well as far as I can tell.

When I do buy a better set, it will either be the LNs or the Ashley Isles Mk 2s. There's a big hand tool event in the Sourth of England in a couple of weeks time and I'm hoping to get some hands on with both of them to see which I prefer. I will definitely be getting a set of the Ashley Isles pig stickers though.


----------



## Bertha

Brit, the Iles pigstickers are hard to beat. Once tuned, I've never had any problem with the Irwin chisels, although I bob the handle a tad. If you've been chopping mortises with Irwins, you're due for some mortise chisels. Putting in that hard work will only make a set of Iles all the more lovely.


----------



## LesCasteel

I too would like to weigh in on buying chisels from EBAY. I watched for about 4 weeks. If it was a Stanley #720, #740, or a #750 I watched the price to the end. They didn't have to be perfect or mint but they had to be pretty good. Then I put it into a spreadsheet to keep track of the average cost of a decent Stanly chisel sold on EBAY. I was amazed. Many, many times the average price for mediocre chisels was up to $55 each, usually about $25 to $35. Now, I really like Stanley chisels, but Lie-Neilson sells wonderful new chisels for….wait for it….. $55 each. So, I bought some Lie-Neilson's and quit this EBAY junk.


----------



## Bertha

Les, I can certainly relate to your frustration. I was in a desperate search for a Stanley 4 1/2 & tried the same thing with the spreadsheet. To my amazement they ranged from the bargain to the absurd, without any real relationship to quality. It almost seemed random. Chisels are no exception. LN makes excellent chisels, no doubt about it.


----------



## mafe

Andy, please send me a personal mail when you have had your hands on the Iles. If my hands came first I will let you know.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## TechRedneck

Ok, I'm going to try to revive this thread Al.

After working on a wedding gift this weekend the cheap chisels I have are not hacking it. I've decided on the Ashley MK2's. Now with a budget, I am thinking about trying out three sizes.. 1/4, 1/2, 1" to start. I know I want the 1" because I use my 1" for paring quite a bit.

Any suggestions on the sizes used most often? Should I go for a 1/8"? I want to try them out and bring the set up piece by piece as funds permit. ( I also want to get an Incra TS-LS and have money set aside for that when it goes back on sale) so I can't afford the full set now.

Mads.. did you get your MK2's ? how do you like them?

I was looking at the Narex but they only come in metric and all my tools are standard.


----------



## WayneC

I'm currently living with a set of blue marples and a bunch of rehabbed flea market chisels.





The Ashley Iles chisels really appeal to me. I have a good number of their carving tools and I really like them….


----------



## TechRedneck

I was looking at some water stones for sharpening. Yikes! Since I am getting some fine chisels I thought I would need to keep them sharp. I have a granite plate and paper 220 up to 1200 grit. I figure I can use that to grind off the tool marks and will need perhaps a 4000/8000 wet stone to get them where they will shine and keep them there. That will help with the two planes I have as well.

Man.. the wife is going to kill me!

Wayne, thanks for the reply. I am thinking that I may pick up some blue Marples in odd sizes and start filling out the chisel collection. I can't see using the Ashley's for beaters.


----------



## WayneC

I agree. Everyone needs some beaters.


----------



## TechRedneck

Placed the order today for the Ashlley Isles from The Best Things in VA. Nice people to deal with. They also had a clearance on a 2" wide 1000/4000 Norton stone for $35.

For vacation this year I also ordered the Anarchist's Tool Chest. That should turn some heads on the beach!


----------



## WayneC

The best things seems to have the best price on stuff from Ashley Iles. They seem to be cheaper than Tools for Working wood anyway. Sounds like you got a good deal on the stone.

I ordered the Anarchist's Tool Chest as well. Should be here in the next day or two.


----------



## TechRedneck

I have most of the power tools that you would need to get the stock down to something I can work with. Schwarz should help me with selection of some nice hand tools to round things out. I went to his website and like what he is doing. I almost pulled the trigger on "The Essential Woodworker" but had to contain myself. I should read one book at a time.

Now I have another issue. I am thinking of moving my DC system (piped with 4"S&D) to make room for a sharpening station next to the utility sink. That way I can get messy with the wet stones and not have to slop up any workbenches. Oh well, there goes another Saturday.


----------



## Bertha

Techred, if I had plumbing in my shop, I'd be doing exactly what you're planning.


----------



## TechRedneck

Well it should not be too involved. I used thick aluminum duct tape for the joints so I just have to peel or cut it off. I have a long run across the shop to pickup the drill press and a floor sweep. Think I will just do away with that and suck up the press and mortising shavings with the mini cyclone.

If I move the DC then I may have more room for that TS-LS I am drooling over! The fence on my Sears Hybrid is not the best and I ran a gauge over the entire length an found a slight bow in the dam thing. It does fine on stock less than 30", burns sometimes on cherry and oak. I am tired of messing with it.

I am going to pick up a bunch of rough maple, cherry and oak in the next week and will have some long boards to run through it.

Speaking of chisels.. this is the topic I believe… Any suggestions on a nice paring chisel? or will the 1" Ashley do the trick?


----------



## mafe

Hi Tech,
I really love these chisels, think they are just wonderful.
If you look in my reviews I made a review of them, tell me what you think when you get them.
To me they are holding a tradition and elegance.
They are perfect for parring, just keep the honing bevel then.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## TechRedneck

Thanks Mads,

I just came up from the shop and it is getting late. I decided to go ahead and move the DC system to make room for a sharpening station next to the sink. Good thing I did, I noticed that when I originally built it I had to get creative with the fittings. I had a small reduction (edge of pipe) right at the primary separator that was partially clogged with some large chips and a small chunk of wood. I am having second thoughts about the floor sweeps and may go back to a broom for the shavings.

Note to self and others, don't leave an exposed rough edge of pipe facing the flow of air in the fittings.

Can't wait to get that package in the mail now. I'll post some pics and let you know what I think of the Ashley's. With the new stone I'll hone up the hand planes as well and make some shavings!


----------



## mafe

Remember that the back is not supposed to be completely flat on them, read in my review why.
Mads


----------



## DaddyZ

A witherby, a butcher Gouge, a few stanleys, & others

Just a few auction & garage sale finds, Since this picture I have cleaned them all. Now i need to make some more handels.

Hope to pick up a few more at an estate auction this this weekend, Can see 1 in the picture.


----------



## Bertha

Tech, I'm an Iles, Witherby, and Butcher guy. I'm also a cheap bluechip and twocherries guy, but that's not why we're here. My favorite parers are the Iles and a 1 inch Ohio tools socket that I turned a big, fat, tear-dropped shape handle for of olivewood. I like the big fat swell in my palm and guide the chisel with my finger indexed over the back.

Mads is right! Don't tinker with the "ruler trick" on the Iles. All my chisels and planes have flat backs; not one has a back bevel. I think the ruler trick has been misunderstood by many.


----------



## mochoa

Tech,

I just bought some Iles and they are great. I regret putting a secoundary bevel on my 1" (extra 5degrees)which will be used for pairing. I didnt put a secoundary bevel on the 3/4" and it cuts through end grain with much less effort than the 1".


----------



## mook

Just in passing…... caught my eye on some web site I can't recall (two minutes ago) :-
"05/19/2009: Mallet Soft - Handle Hard"

How come little attention is paid to this simple truth?


----------



## TechRedneck

Whoo Hoo,... the Isles arrived in just two days from "The Best Things" and The Anarchist's Tool Chest on the same truck From Lie Nielson. The DC system is all re-piped and tested. I purchased the book for vacation but now can't decide to start reading it or head to the shop to work on the sharpening station!

The chisels look and feel nice in my hands, and are somewhat sharp right out of the box.


----------



## WayneC

Very cool… I'm still waiting on my copy of the book. Supposed to be here on Monday. I also have 3 more Iles carving tools on their way. If the carving tools are an indicator your going to be real happy with the chisels.


----------



## DonnyBahama

An entire thread about chisels and barely a mention of Japanese chisels. I feel sad for you all.


----------



## WayneC

Donny, here is your chance to have your day in the Sun…. Lets see some Japanese chisels…


----------



## Bertha

Donny, this is the economy chisel thread


----------



## Tedstor

I've never used a Japanese chisel. I'm sure they're great. But from what I've seen, even a Lie Neilsen would be considered an economy chisel in comparison.


----------



## KellyS

I've got a touch of OCD. I think I've gathered maybe 150 or so. My dad gave me a set of the Harbor freight 9 dollar chisels. Hey, they are what they are…, at least they're quickly sharpened. I have a set of the Japanese chisels from Grizzly because they had a positive review in one of the magazines for the money. I would guess that was my first "nice" set of chisels. I soon realized I needed thinner chisels for dovetails and such and started buying a few here and there on ebay, mostly socket type. Let's see, I have pretty much a full set of 750's and several other 750's, but not enough to make another full set. I have a couple 720's, I have a full set of the Stanley Handyman chisels (beaters), several Stanley 60's almost a full set (beaters too), I have a set of 4 large Buhl and Sons socket chisels, A set of 4 Fulton socket chisels, a set of Dunalps, 3 or so Everlast type, A partial set of Craftsman socket type. Some are really nice, some are so so, some were bought for a dollar or less, so much more. I would like to have a set of the 40's, but I can't afford that much right now.

I have two of I think they're R50's Stanley Stanloid handled chisels with the orange label. I would really like to have a full set of these. If anyone has some they want to trade, let me know.

This is a little bit of the "booty" from the 127 yard sale last year.


----------



## DaddyZ

WOW, Guys The Toolbox in my post # 42 Above, It sold this weekend at an Auction,

I didn't even get to bid. 20 seconds & it went from $10.00 to $ 100.00 !!!!!

I was not even going to spend 50 on it.

WOW $ 100.00 !!!!!!

KellyS - Nice Collection going !!!!


----------



## RGtools

My new favorite. 1/4 inch of pure awesome.


----------



## ksSlim

Can't beat "old iron" for quality. I inheirted GGrandpa's tool chest (circa 1850). Most tools had no, or not tracable maker's marks. After cleanup and sharpening, the paring chisels are my go-to tools. Mortise chisels had VERY short handles. Replaced handles for my larger hands. Great laminaed iron.
Old Iron is hard to surpass for edge holding.


----------



## RGtools

The only issue with the "old Iron" is the tools are often pitted. But I agree back when they would take really good steel and laminate it to tough wrought iron you had a chisel that would really take some abuse.

The Japanese still make them that way. I just wish I could get them in Imperial.


----------



## Tedstor

I'm late to the party, but what the heck. I like chisel chat, so I'll share my kit. Nothing too fancy, but suits my needs for now. 
Marples 373 1/8-1 1/4: I got these a few months ago via Ebay for what I consider a firesale price. They were advertised as new old stock before the Irwin buy-out of Marples. Not too much to say about them. I wanted a mid-grade set of bevel-edge chisels, and thats what I got. They are work-horses that see a lot of action. I wish they had nice, wooden handles; but the current handles have a good shape to them that I like. 


















Buck Bros Firmer/Sash Mortise 1/8 - 1 3/4
I bought the larger three as a set that was described as "Firmer Chisels", and the smaller three were aquired separately as "Sash Mortise Chisels". They were in so/so condition when I got them, but they cleaned-up fairly well and are fully functional. A couple of them still need a bit of work with their bevel angle and polish, but it can wait. I haven't used these much, but they have been good to have for the occasions when my Marples bench chisels would have taken too much punishment. I'm pretty sure these tanks will be sufficient for most mortising work I'll ever do. But I am on the lookout for a heavy-duty 1/4" pigsticker (or equivilent) when the nuclear option becomes necessary. 


















The other chisels in the picture are some "Task Force" Chinese beaters (red handle). The yellow handled set are "Sheffield" brand (Great Neck). They're made in the USA and are decent tools. I've been getting by on these for a couple years now. They've got the job done, but I'm glad to have aquired the Maples and Buck Bros chisels. A world of difference.


----------



## DaddyZ

nice set going there!!!


----------



## Bertha

Really nice! Marples are good workhorses; proven. I've got a few Buck Bros slicks lying around that need handles. Perhaps I should get myself to the lathe!


----------



## RGtools

This is a good set the beginner. Marples work but I really wish they came with flatter backs.


----------



## Bertha

Bump, only so I can find this on my 30day pulse
Edit: oops, I had unwatched my own thread, lol. I have some reading to do, I see


----------



## WayneC

lol


----------



## dbray45

ooops


----------



## SamuelP

What is the difference in a skew chisel and a flat chisel as far as using. I have a good assortment of flat, but only a couple skew chisels. Any benefits to either?


----------



## tom427cid

Hi,
Another latecomer to the party-I have been a rather avid collector/user of chisels. Early on I learned(truth or not) that the Shakers who were noted for using the best tols available favored Butcher chisels. I also was told that Butchers were Sheffield and that they were hand forged. But maybe not. Any way I switched from Witherby socket to Butcher tang. Almost all have been flea market finds. And like most all "hand made" items there are good and not so good.My "everyday chisels are sorta a mixed bag of brands but mostly all English. The one thing that I can say about Butchers and other sheffield brands is that they will "take" an edge(perhaps not as keen as a piece of A2)but they will sharpen quickly. They will take a bit of abuse and stay reasonably sharp for quite a time,and more importantly it takes no time at all to freshen the edge. I also have found that most of the English brands are this way.Such as Greaves,Addis,Newbold,and others. I also have found that the very early Charles Buck(small letters) are as good as any English chisel. I know that there are others and my appologies for not mentioning them.Maybe it was just my bad luck but if I find a Swan I will throw it in the scrap bin. All that I have ever encountered would dull almost immediately. Retempering didn't seem to help much.
Just my .02
tom


----------



## RGtools

I really what this.

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/prodimg/ms/big/MS-MORTXX_big.gif

1/2 I have some big projects coming up and I think this would be fun to bash holes in wood with.

I recently restored a patternmakers 3/8 chisel, no name that I can find, new favorite paring machine. I need to take a pic. But I have a video that will go up soon with it in there.


----------



## SamuelP

Should all chisels have the hoop at the end of the handle or am I being too rough or using the wrong chisel?


----------



## docholladay

The only problem I have with my chisels (and I have lots of them) is actually ever getting them all sharp and ready to use. I have lots of different brands. I tend to prefer the steel in the older ones. They typically hold a very good edge and don't take a lot of work to get them there.

Doc


----------



## DonnyBahama

@sprevratil - Skew chisels are used primarily on warped, cupped, or twisted wood.


----------



## Bertha

Tom, I'm surprised to hear you've had bad luck with James Swans. I probably shouldn't tout them so readily, as I only own a few smallish ones and a drawknife. Mine seem to be a bit on the soft side, now that you mention it. I'm right there with you on the Butcher. I've got quite a few tangs and several gouges now.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

RG the pigstickers are realy nice to make mortiss´s with 
but as all other tools its take a little time to get master them 
but a mortissemaschine realy have to run for the money to beat them

Dennis


----------



## Bertha

Dennis, like you've noted before, the pigsticks on Ebay have gone out of control. I remember a day when they could be had for a decent price. Those were the days when I wasn't really interested in them yet!

Iles makes some very nice ones:

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-MORT.XX&Category_Code=TBMC&Search=mortise%20chisel









I don't ToolsForWorkingWood would mind me copying their text here (I hope not, because this is copied from the link above):

Note: one of our own LJs is quoted at the bottom!

We've wanted to sell real English mortise chisels since Tools for Working Wood began. The challenge, of course, was to make a tool as good or better as the old mortise chisels and not go broke trying. More than a year ago Ray Iles sat in my living room and stared at my collection of old mortise chisels for an hour, all the while musing on how hard the old tools were to make. Ray is a master edge tool maker and has been doing it since he was a teenager. Ray remembers living in Abraham Darby's house (now a museum) in Coalbrookdale as a boy, when his father worked as a foundry manager. This was before his father, Ashley Iles, set up Ashley Iles Edge tools. I offered to build Ray a time machine to go back in time and bring a few of the old-timers' back with me. Ray said he would think about it. He thought for a year. We cajoled him. We said if anyone could do it, he was the one (which was true). We offered to buy the entire production run. Then one day a small package arrived in the mail. It was the real McCoy. Ray figured out how to do it. He said the entire project was really interesting because it posed so many production challenges. So here you have it. Our major contribution to this joint venture was enthusiasm and a little research. Ray did all the work. It was worth it.

The last time anyone offered a real English-style mortise chisels was in the early 1960's. There are companies still making sash mortise chisels, and heavy duty sash mortise chisels, but the real thing has been elusive for awhile. Ray has nailed down the essential features of the tool. His chisel is mostly indestructible. It's designed for the ultimate bashing with a heavy wooden mallet. The ferrule-less beech handles transmit a huge amount of force directly into the heavy steel bolster. You can really see Ray's attention to detail and skill as a craftsman in the handles. They're oval, so you will automatically hold the chisel aligned with the mortise without even thinking about it. Traditionally, the best handles were tapered and proportional to the tool size, which made them a lot easier to hold. It just feels right. The oval shape gives a lot more strength in the pulling direction but still remains comfortable.

The sides of the chisel form a slight trapezoid, so that if your chisel isn't perfectly aligned with the cut you won't damage the sides of the mortise, and more importantly, there is a lot less of a chance for the chisel to get stuck. You just push the chisel in the mortise a little and it loosens up. Lighter sash mortise chisels are ground parallel but that's because they are designed for shallower mortises in window sashes which are usually in soft wood. Some manufacturers say that that parallel sides make it easier to guide and align the chisel with the mortise but in fact the alignment of the mortise is determined by the first stroke of the blade into the wood, long before the sides of the chisel can have any effect.

The primary bevel on the chisel is ground to a very narrow 20 degree angle. This of course is not a strong enough angle to hold up to vicious chopping, but it's historically accurate because the narrow angle lets a blow on the chisel push the chisel very deep. And that's what we want - to go as deep as possible with each blow. But of course we have to strengthen the tip or it will bend. So mortise chisels need a hefty secondary bevel at the tip or around 35 degrees. It turns out with D2 steel (see below) we can use a very tiny secondary bevel. It works great and it reinforces the shallowness of the primary angle so these chisels can get even deeper per blow than the old antiques. All you need is a tiny secondary bevel, even a 1/16" is fine. In general we recommend that when you sharpen just sharpen the secondary bevel and it will grow wider. If it gets annoyingly wide just regrind the primary bevel at 20 degrees.

On some early 19th century mortise chisels the primary bevel is rounded into the front edge of the chisel. This makes is easier to lever out waste on deep mortises. We recommend it but decided that since not everyone will want this feature and it's easy enough to add yourself we left it off the new chisels. Ray rounded the front edge of the chisels a little to make it easier to hold.

We did have a question about what metal to use. There were a couple of historically appropriate options: hammer-weld a cast steel cutting edge to a mild steel body, or make the entire thing out of cast steel. Real cast steel hasn't been available since the 1950's. So what do you do? Regular modern carbon steel would be okay, but we thought that the extra toughness of A2 might be better. But in England, where these chisels are made, A2 is hard to get in the sizes we needed. So we decided on D2, a slightly more expensive, more durable, overall better tool steel. Some people feel that A2 and D2 don't get as sharp as good traditional carbon steel, but this is less of an issue than it would be in, for example, a paring chisel, since mortise chisels don't need to be as surgically sharp. And the pummeling required by the mortise chisel's higher bevel angles makes the extra toughness of D2 a real boon. Ray thought that in D2, these chisels would stay sharp forever. He's off by a few years but the edge retention on these chisels is amazing.

We are as excited about these mortise chisels as any product we have ever offered. And we're not alone. Chris Schwarz, the executive editor of Popular Woodworking, had a chance to try the chisels out and had the following response:
"After years of working with perfectly adequate sash mortising chisels, the Ray Iles tool was a complete revelation to me. All of his traditional details - the double-tapered handle, the blade's tapered sides, the mass - add up to a tool that works astonishingly well. If you've never tried a traditional mortiser like the Ray Iles, you're missing out." 
We are offering 6 sizes of the mortise chisel, singly or in a set.

"The mortise chisels are some of the most well-balanced tools that I've ever used. The thick shank is solid without being excessively heavy. And, of course, they take and hold the edge. " - Lonnie Bird

"The best chisel I have ever used." - Paul Sellers

"Best New Tools of 2005," Popular Woodworking


----------



## Bertha

However, I'm after this:

http://www.jimbodetools.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=20054
a 3/8" Butcher pigsticker for under $30. Where was I ?!


----------



## Bertha

This one's for Wayne. I've got about 1/2 of them now.

http://www.jimbodetools.com/Early-19th-Century-New-Old-Stock-Butcher-Pattern-Maker-s-Gouges-p9210.html


----------



## RGtools

I have a knife from D2 tools steel. It holds a razor for a VERY long time. I use it each year for harvest and for turkeys. The idea of a mortise chisel with that same incredible steel made me quite intrigued.

sprevratil, it depends on what you are doing and the wood in the chisel handle. The handle in my mortise chisel for instance has no hoop…but it's made of hornbeam which is very hard and split resistant. Japanese handles are usually made out of oak which is not split resistant and therefore needs a hoop to survive any mallet blows. For paring (cutting with hand pressure, no mallet) a hoop is not necessary at all and might annoy your hands. Good bench chisels are kind of your all around Paring/Chopping machines, but I think its wise to get a few chisels that specialize in one or the other since the optimum sharpening angles (and handles) for these tasks are different. As far as which to get…that's all up to the needs of your work.


----------



## RGtools

Dennis, getting proficient with a mortise chisels is very satisfying. I really enjoyed my last project because it gave me LOTS of practice in that area. I used to waste out with a brace and pare to my lines, won't be doing that anymore unless I have to.


----------



## WayneC

Very pretty Al. I will have to get working on my chisels. I'm still figuring out where to get some vintage green wood tools… The new stuff is hella expensive.

http://www.countryworkshops.org/gouges.html


----------



## Dennisgrosen

OOH nice gauges Bertha  but way out of my budget :-(
but since you into gauges is it possiple you allso know whats the differrence benefits
of using inchannel gauges and using outsidechannel gauges 
and where ,why how is they used as they are don´t forget when it comes to gauges
they are allso made in both catogory´s as parring gauges too

take look around on this site he has some interresting cheisels and other nice stuff from
time to time 
http://www.oldtools.co.uk/index.html

Dennis


----------



## dennettfarm

Questions about a 2" TH Witherby, Warranted chisel. I found this 2" chisel in our 1860 barn in Maine. The socket has been mushroomed out by direct hammering instead of having a handle in there. Was this a common practice to use them without handles ruining the socket? The steel is in good shape and appears to be laminated. I'd like to put it to use and considering how to go about repairing the socket or modifying it to accept some kind of handle.


----------



## racerglen

Very common to find the mushroomed sockets, guys too lazy to replace the handle and just beat it with a steel hammer.
I'm not familiar with the brand, but usualy the old ones have very good steel, although some had the cutting edges laminated as you say and after a bunch of grinding there can be little of the "good" stuffr left.
A grinding around the outside of the socket to bring that shape back, then if there's 'shrooming in ther top of the socket, a Dremel or files can reshape that, then it's up to you to choose the type of handle..


----------



## BillWhite

I've collected a bunch of W. Butcher stuff, chisels, a tenon saw, a couple lathe tools. The cast steel is very good, holds edges well, a buffs to a nice sheen. No, you can't have them. THEY'RE MINE!!
Bill


----------



## racerglen

Bill, weren't you ever a cub scout ?
It's all about sharing, sharing, sharing…..

;-)


----------



## BillWhite

Sorry Glen. It ain't gonna happen. 
Bill


----------



## bandit571

I think i might have a picture of MOST of mine, all hanging in one spot….









i do have a couple others, but they were hiding that day. Some stanleys, a Worth or two, even a few from Harbor Freight. Once you get the "factory edge' ground off the H-Fs, they aren't bad at all.


----------



## JGM0658

I got most of what I need Matsumura bench chisels, Ray Isle mortise chisels, but I want this…


----------



## doordude

Mads, i like the way you think.if you're going to spend good money, on tools that will last a life time, why not buy a few at a time. and in time; you'll have the best set.


----------



## Bertha

JGM, those are luxurious.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

How about my favorite thing to do with chisels?


----------



## chrisstef

i figure you galoots may be hangin out here but i just posted over at HYOD on a #113 and a #3 wood butcher plane. Ill be joining this one whenever i have a few hours to read through this thread, ive been itching for some chisel knowledge. Rehab sounds a bit quicker than planes too


----------



## meikou

Another nice thread Al..managed to miss this one somehow.

I've got a set of pre irwin marples as I've been following the Paul Sellers way. The day I met Paul at the Baltimore woodworkers show, one of the stands had the new stanley sweethearts for $150 and Paul's book and dvd's were the same so I went with the book/dvd's. I still fancy a set of stanleys though I've not seen them for that price since.

I did find a set of marples socket chisels going on ebay uk and I still kick myself for not buying them. I haven't seen another set since.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, a SW set for $150 was an awesome deal….


----------



## donwilwol

how'd I miss this? I've been eyeing the LV catalog. oh the temptation just got greater!


----------



## Loren

A lot of those old chisels are labeled "cast steel" while newer
chisels under $100/set are likely to be drop forged and milled.

Drop forging is like hitting a piece of steel between 2 dies with
100 tons of force with a hydraulic ironworker machine of some sort.

Some higher-end modern chisels are milled from oil-hardening
bar stock. You can buy soft bar stock and make your own
mortise chisels and harden them up with a propane torch 
and quenching in motor oil. I made a couple - it was not 
hard to do and they worked fine but were pretty crude 
and not well-balanced, which was nothing to do with the 
steel and all to do with me. The steel was good.

And then there are still chisels being hand forged like Barr
chisels. The forging concentrates carbon near the edge 
which helps the steel hold an edge well.

I'm not a metallurgist or anything. My understanding is probably
generalized and wrong in some ways. From what I've read 
the old "Cast Steel" was an economy compared to hammer
forging but generally better for edge tools than drop
forging, at least by 19th century standards. Refining of
steels and alloys for tools has come quite a distance since 
then I think.


----------



## MakinChips

95 replies and not one mention of sorby chisels. Are these out of favor?


----------



## Loren

I have Sorby firmers and some framing chisels. They are robust 
and tough certainly. I haven't found them to keep a 
keen edge long, but then mine are all the kind you 
whack hard so maybe if I wasn't so hard on them the
edges would hold up better. I have pared with them 
when they are sharp and they work well.

I've never used the regular Sorby bench or paring chisels.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Did y'all see the 1/8" Everlasting sell today on the 'bay? Just over $215?...


----------



## dbray45

I recently (last year or so) upgraded my bevel edge and mortise chisels to those from Traditional Woodworker:



















The beveled chisels are thinner than the Irwin-Marples chisels that I have but are a lot harder steel. The mortise chisels are great, some serious steel there.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

David, that's some amazing tool steel, beautiful stuff. How you like the beveled set? Can you imagine not having them?


----------



## RGtools

I still drool over the LN Chisels.

Has anyone here filed the bevels of their irwin chisels to make them cut better dovetails? I was curoius about how long it takes and if you had any tips to make the job look good.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Good question, Ryan. I have a set of permaloid 60s that need bevel work to be great users…


----------



## patron

got a set of sorby parring chisels

they never leave the shop
15" long (9" blades)
no banging

thin enough to bend slightly
for that flat bottom


----------



## Johnnyblot

Bollocks- how come I've missed this topic? I must have been asleep!
I would like to post a table I copied from my notes whilst with David Charlesworth. It's a reference chart for Grinding & Honing Angles for chopping & paring chisels, using waterstones. The last column should say 12,000grit (superfine) *NOT* 1200grit. 
I hope it might be of use. 


I had hoped to post this as a PDF but was unable to.
Cheers.
John


----------



## dbray45

Smitty - The beveled chisels are thinner than that of the older chisels but none have broken. These are buffed, smoothed and nice to hold - but - this being said, I had to flatten the backs. As for being real hard - these are harder than the Marples/Irwins that I have but have not chipped either. With every 3-4 drawers, I have to clean the edges up but not a resharpen. The ring at the top is pointless.

The mortise chisels are not something I would easily part with - heavy, hard, they stay put (don't bounce around), clean, easy to hold, and make clean mortises.


----------



## Kookaburra

I have that same bevel edge set dbray45 and love them. I did not have a lot to compare them to as they replaced random ones from the big box stores, but that have made me happy. I might need to invest in those mortise chisels too.


----------



## dbray45

They are imperial sizes, not metric conversions.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ryan, I saw somebody posted a chisel refurb not too long ago, and in that he did grind the side bevels to make it a solid user… It was just a two-word post title. I'll have to look…


----------



## Bertha

David, those chisels are really nice looking, especially the mortise. Now that this thread is alive, I'll have to take some new pictures! I haven't stopped buying these little devils.


----------



## dbray45

I am looking at finding a nice set of paring and cranked-necked paring chisels without loosing the farm. These things can get expensive.


----------



## Bertha

David, didn't that guy a while back tell us that we don't need cranked necks, lol? I REALLY want some cranked necks but you're right, they're not giving them away. My paring chisels tend to be really wide sockets. I make this fat teardrop-shaped handle that really feels right in the hand. If you get those cranked, I want to see them!


----------



## dbray45

I am looking at these from Lee Valley for some time, but at $182 for all four, not this week.


----------



## dbray45

I recently talked my wife into the Lee Valley router plane not long ago and all of the imperial sized blades. I was using it to reccess hinge plates over the weekend. Hinges have always been one of my problems but this thing fixes most of my problems in a hurry. Now if I can just get the hang of using a ruler, all those little tiny lines are supposed to mean something - I would be in good shape.


----------



## RGtools

Ruler? That's that thing I use to figure out what went wrong…right?


----------



## dbray45

oops - is that what that thing was for????


----------



## Bertha

Rulers are for back-beveling plane irons and controlling civilizations. I've never been called upon for either, lol. I did watch the season finale of the Bachelorette last night, which clearly undermines my clout


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^Say it ain't so! The fiance must have gotten you to do that, right Al? I mean, you didn't set aside time to watch at the expense of shop adventures…. Say it ain't so! (Serious manpoints at stake…)


----------



## lysdexic

Al, have you no pride. C'mon man! Jeff was the right pick for Emily.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Scott, it's 'One-F-Jef' as my kids and wife like to say…


----------



## lysdexic

I am not ashamed to say that I don't know how to spell his name.


----------



## Bertha

Lol. I'm pretty sure that I like women and lysdexic, so I can watch the Bachelorette with relative impunity. I gravitate toward these shows to illustrate to myself how NOT to act. I need direction, that's for sure. I must admit that I really like that Jef with one F. A bit too tree hugging for me to marry him, though. Al with one L.


----------



## donwilwol

thanks Al, I was totaly lost up until your last post. I was about to ask if I was to old to understand.

Although I'm not sure how to take the I'm pretty sure that I like women and lysdexic


----------



## chrisstef

sounds like a bromance to me ….


----------



## DaddyZ

Cmon Guys Really!!!

At least if she is going to Introduce her kids to someone off a TV SHow, she chose good, Considering the other guy flew to her hometown & didn't even talk to her


> ?


What they (networks) won't do for ratings…....


----------



## RGtools

And now would be a good time to inject these.


----------



## Bertha

Lol, DaddyZ. I know we're off on a tangent here but having watched that show and others like it, where are we going to draw the line about witnessing tragedy? If you sign up for one of these shows, you better expect to get your a$$ handed to you, but it's hard to watch. "I'm getting engaged tomorrow"....oops, surprise!!!! It's just friggin brutal. 
.
In terms of bromances, it's true; me and lysdexic have been locked in an uncomfortable embrace before. He's a bit "handy" but the guy does good work.


----------



## bandit571

Back to the subject at hand…..

Ok, back to the TV Shows…...


----------



## Loren

I have 3 of the old Buck bros. crank necked chisels. They aren't
tools that get used a whole lot and only for paring so the
edges hold up well.

Check auctions for them. They are good old chisels from when 
Buck bros. was a quality brand.


----------



## RGtools

Picture fail I hate Internet Explorer.


----------



## Mosquito

I've only got one set of chisels, and they're new Stanley Bailey chisels from a big box store. They work fine, I think. No major complaints, I guess. I'd like a better set, but again the money requirements don't seem to line up with the budget


----------



## NANeanderthal

That's not a chisel, this is a chisel


----------



## NANeanderthal

Going to take a while to lap that back


----------



## RGtools

That is pretty slick.


----------



## dbray45

NAN - you building a barn?


----------



## NANeanderthal

Nah, I'm going to pair my dovetails with it. Actually I use big guys the way some use block planes or shoulder planes. My 2" guy is used all the time for breaking edges, truing a tenon shoulder, etc. Not sure what will come of the beast, even though its wide, its also long, so maybe better control for a sweeping action

Of course, a big ass handle may make it good for bring rough stuff a little more square, a middle between hewing and jack plane.

My wife hates this picture BTW, she thinks people are going to think I really look like this, vs just my stupid grin face. After I took it, she told me if I ever look as fat in the face as this pic makes me look, i'm getting a treadmill instead of woodworking tools for my b-day.


----------



## Bertha

NAN is my new hero


----------



## mochoa

That aint nothing check this out. 








http://www.ebay.com/itm/D-R-Barton-Chisel-Slick-Vintage-Gouge-Wood-Ice-Harvesting-Antique-Nice-/140807507310?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c8c80d6e


----------



## Bertha

Yes! YES!


----------



## NANeanderthal

that's it, I'm going on a search for a two man chisel


----------



## chrisstef

i think we need to find a way to chuck that slick up in a jackhammer. Put 90lbs of hydraulic force behind that bad boy and watch her split right through some trees. Just dont let your little toes get in the way.


----------



## Alexandre

Bertha, my chisel I bought: http://lumberjocks.com/topics/39939


----------



## ShaneA

Here is a chisel question for the think tank….recenty bought me a few vintage chisels from ebay. A couple of stanley sockets and a couple james swan sockets. Mind you this is in addition to a set a new japanese and a few ashley isles. The question, one swan chisel is 1 1/2", been sharpened by questionable methods before I got it. Out of square a bit. Needs bevel angle corrections too. Seems like a lifetime job to bring her back to square and 25°. Lots of grinding, lots of heat. How hot is too hot? The WS 3000 kicks up a fair amount, but I am thinking p80 on a scary sharp method. Is there a time or situation where i could get the chisel too hot? Any suggestions?


----------



## JGM0658

Is the swan chisel a framers chisel? If so, what I do with mine is hold the chisel with a vise and move the stone on the edge, it does not take that long to sharpen them this way, but of course I got mine from Barr and already well sharpened and square.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Chris - You have the four piece Bailey chisels, with the whackin' ring at the top? Dark wooden handles? How do you like those? Is the iron holding an edge well? Curious too about the side bevels. Sorry for the questions, saw a set way long ago, no one has referenced them since.

Maur, *that's* a chisel.


----------



## ShaneA

I think the swan chisel would be considered a beveled edge. It has the multi angled edge, but I could be using the wrong name for it. It just seems like it will take forever to bring it back to square.

Neanderthal….awesome picture/caption! that IS a chisel.


----------



## Mosquito

Smitty, I'm not sure if there is a 4 piece one or not, but mine are a 5 piece, but are as you described…









They're ok, I had to glue a few of the rings on, since some kept falling off. They seem to hold an edge decently long, but then again I don't have anything to compare them too. I used the 1/4" to whack out mortises, and it managed ok. They do a good enough job that I wouldn't toss them once I get better ones, but I don't think they'll be my "last set of chisels ever". I'm not really sure what to say about the side bevels, but the backs were questionably flat. They weren't horrible, but they weren't quite flat either. I did (even before flattening the backs) have to round the corners on the back edges (below the side bevels) those suckers were sharp!


----------



## JGM0658

maybe you mean a skew chisel like this if so, you want to keep it this way, they are great for cleaning dovetails, hard to imagine a 1 1/2 inch dovetail though. Maybe for a bench?


----------



## ShaneA

You know I could have my terms mixed up, but it has the same edge profile as the chisels pictured above by Chris. But it is way wider and probably not as long, the handle is kind of short, relatively speaking.


----------



## JGM0658

Ah..maybe a firmer chisel like this if t is skewed then yeah you are in for the long haul. I don't know anything about metallurgy so I don't know at what point you loose temper on the steel. Sorry I could not help.


----------



## dbray45

Shane - Yes you can get your chisels too hot. If they start to change color, you are too hot, you are tempering the steel. If, when you sharpen the blade, you find that the blade is sharpening quickly, someone prior to you has already drawn the hardness out. It can be fixed but it is a process that takes practice. If you know any blacksmiths, they can do this in a couple of minutes. If not, look on the web for hardening and tempering steel.


----------



## ShaneA

Thanks David. they get hot to the touch, uncomfortable after a few seconds, but not burning. Havent seen any color change. At a couple minutes at a time….it is going to take a while.


----------



## lysdexic

Shane, I have heard that alot of folks will have a small bucket of water by the grinder and dunk the iron/chisel frequently.


----------



## mochoa

Shane I've used a belt sander clamped in the bench vise. It runs a little slower and doesnt heat up the iron quite as fast as a standard bench grinder. But be sure to keep dunking it in water.


----------



## donwilwol

Shane, all I have is a regular speed grinder. I have to be careful not to over heat with it. I tend to work short sessions into doing something else. For example I'll flatten the back at the same time, so a few second grinding and then switch to flattening the back with a water dip in between, then back to grinder and so forth.


----------



## mochoa

You know what I've done with a standard grinder, they keep spinning for a couple of minutes after you turn them off. So, Get it up to speed, turn it off and then start grinding. Once it slows down too much, repeat.

I only do this when I'm getting very close to the edge, the sharp point burns much faster because there is less metal.


----------



## carguy460

A few years back I needed to do some grinding on a chisel and my dad showed me a neat trick…he took a small sponge and glued it (hot glue if I recall) onto the back of the chisel near the edge I was grinding on. The sponge retained quite a bit of water and extended the amount of time I could grind without dipping in water…worked pretty good for what I was doing.


----------



## mochoa

Interesting, worth a try.


----------



## carguy460

I don't know if it really did anything but make me THINK I was helping the situation…but it did keep the steel from losing temper. I may have to do an "experiment" and try one without and one with spongebob.


----------



## KenBry

It's called a Heat Shunt, and it's common practice in the electronics world to help keep temps under control. Wrap your tool nearly to the end in a wet paper towel. Grind the end to shape, in theory your tool should not get damaged if you get a little carless. ( I havn't tried it yet on my chisels but it works great when soldering)


----------



## carguy460

Well I'll be darned, Ken..I had no idea!!! Just something fishy about wrapping your tool in a wet paper towel though…arg, mind out of the gutter…I've been reading too many of Al's posts I guess!


----------



## mochoa

Key word, "Paper" you dont want a cloth towel getting caught in the wheel and flinging that chisel around.


----------



## bandit571

Unless the edge is too far gone, this is how I "grind" an edge. Both plane irons, and chisels. Keeping cool? My fingertips. If it gets to hot for my fingertip riding on the steel, it is time to stop and give it a drink. Sometimes, all I have on hand is a Mountain Dew, still works, just can't drink the stuff later.

The belt USED to be 100 grit, now it's so worn out, I think half the grit still on it is metal from sharpenings. When I get to the edge, I leave the guide in place, and go to the next stages. Flatten the back? yep, just flip the whole mess over, and hit it on the belt. Then back to the bevel side. The sander has a lock button to leave it running. Turn it on, and let it run. The roller on the guide needs a little WD40 now and then. So far, hasn't hurt it, just shined the roller up. Maybe I'll get a new belt, someday….


----------



## carguy460

I've seen your "grinding" setup before bandit, and I really like it. I've considered buying a belt sander for just this reason, but can't justify it in my dense head since this is really the only use I think I would have for it…


----------



## Mosquito

Bandit, I'm guessing you only use that belt for sharpening? Do you change it on and off if you want to use the belt sander, or is it dedicated for sharpening only? Was just wondering if you ever thought about making a jig to hold the plane/chisel iron. Not sure there would really be an advantage, since you may want to have the guide on it later anyway, just curious.

I have a hand powered grinder (Thanks Don) that I am trying to get better at using, but so far I'm having trouble just free-handing it on it with only my left hand


----------



## mochoa

Ah, I want me one of those grinder but it does look tricky to crank and grind at the same time.


----------



## carguy460

Mos - I've got a hand crank grinder too (recent gift), and I find it hard to crank and grind at the same time. I've contemplated making a simple foot powered setup for it so I could have both hands free, but haven't found the time yet. When you use yours to grind on a chisel or plane iron what speed do you use? I'm wondering if slow and steady is the best way to go and could use some experienced advice…


----------



## lysdexic

Chris, so you bought Don's hand grinder? I thought about it and was curious as to its fate. I'd like to know the amount of commercial under current here.


----------



## bandit571

That one cost a whole $40, I think. Just about any old belt sander that you clamp in a vise, and lock "on" will work. This one has a movable "D" handle, and I can clamp it (Jed) in a vertical mode as well. One could get a "Tool Shop" grinder at menards for maybe $15, and be set up. If it's the only thing it will be used for, so what. One could even build a "table" that fits around the unit, so you can run it in the vertical mode for some shaping. While a 3"x 18" belt sander would work, I used the larger size, more room on the belt for both the metal, and the guide. Be sure that the belt runs away from you, NOT towards you, unless you want to eat a chisel….


----------



## mochoa

I bet you could crank one of those grinders with a string around your big toe tied the the crank ;-)


----------



## alba

Thats for dovetails ?


----------



## donwilwol

I'm glad you guys can't see me laughing. Wait…...did I say that out loud. Not at you mind you. Yes, I remember my first attempt.

Jason, if you buy something like the ryobi you'll find plenty of other uses for it. Trust me.

For you hand grinding guys, left hand on the iron, index finger pointing toward the wheel. Thumb and 3-4 fingers on the iron edges. Make sure the wheel is up to speed before striking, then glide across with the blade. Feel the pressure with your finger and let your hand guide square and true. Its actually pretty easy after you've done about 200 of them.

its like sharpening without a jig. practice practice practice. Then one day the sun comes out, a breeze comes up, and it just happens.


----------



## Mosquito

Let's see…. for the speed, I'm thinking it's around 80-100rpm for the handle, not sure what that translates into for the stone though. I've also thought about making a treadle setup for it, I feel like it would be relatively simple to do, and should be a lot easier in theory to use.

Mauricio, that sounds like it would get painful eventually lol

Bandit, I would imagine even if you didn't eat a chisel by having the belt run towards you, the sparks, and metal shavings would get to you eventually anyway…

Edit:
Thanks Don  (Both sarcastically and seriously)
At least I had the technique right for holding it… I just did whatever felt like it gave me the most control


----------



## donwilwol

ok, I'm to far behind. "eat a chisel"? I can't seem to find that.

Bandit, remember wd-40 is not a lubricant. Save those rollers with some real oil.


----------



## mochoa

Oh and dont hook your shop vac to the belt sander while your grinding tools, bad idea. Sparks and saw dust dont mix well ;-)


----------



## carguy460

Thanks Don…and thanks for laughing at me. If you knew the whole grinder story you would be laughing even more, probably. Lets just say that when I got it there was no wheel…so I went and bought a cheap wheel, only to find out that the hole in the middle was a little too big and the plastic "sizing bushings" (I guess thats what they are?) that came with the wheel were a bit too big. I had some hard plastic laying around that just fit the wheel hole, so I drilled a hole through the center of it, and ta da! Perfect fit! I got excited, grabbed a chisel and started cranking like all hell…well my homemade "bushing" didn't get drilled out perfectly in the center, so the thing vibrated itself off my bench where I had clamped it and crashed to the floor…broke my darn wheel, hurt my ego, and made my wife laugh…

Dang, that was a long story just to say that I had no clue what I was doing…


----------



## Bertha

Man im far behind.


----------



## donwilwol

so, I'd tell the story of the wire wheel bouncing across my shop at a very high speed, but I think its laugh at Jason day, so we'll leave Don alone.


----------



## carguy460

Bring it, Don…where I work, every day is laugh at Jason day…its how I can tell I'm loved, or at least thats what my mommy says…


----------



## donwilwol

if when the wife laughs that hurts. If I had a dollar for every time. She still reminds me of the time we were building the house, I was running from rafter to rafter and one broke. I landed on the deck. The rafter half hit me in the head. She was laughing so hard she couldn't get up. Luckily I was much younger then and didn't really get hurt.


----------



## bandit571

I use the WD to clean the roller. A drop of 3-in-1 oil on each end works. Don't want any oil on the belt, it's messy enough now.

Used to have one of them hand cranked jobbies, too much work.

Sparks go merrily off in the air, landing on the bench. Not much to burn there, the regular grinder already took care of that. There is a "dust bag" on the sander, I leave it open when doing metal things. There is a "star" wheel sitting on the bench as well, have to keep those grinder wheels dressed proper.


----------



## DaddyZ

LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## RGtools

Hand crank here too. I also like to stand to the side of the wheel as opposed to behind it since you can see any gap from the blade being out of square to the stone a bit better that way.

Grab a crappy chisel and mess with it for a few hours….the chisel will most likely be trashed, but you will know what you are doing after that. I use a Norton 80x blue wheel on a vintage grinder.


----------



## Mosquito

Don, the eating a chisel was re: bandit saying make sure the belt sander runs away from you
Be sure that the belt runs away from you, NOT towards you, unless you want to eat a chisel….


----------



## carguy460

I feel as though I wandered from Al's original topic yesterday, so I'm trying to make amends today…

I picked this thing up at a flea market a few weeks back, not because I need one, but because it said Marples…now I have no clue about Marples, but I recall hearing that name thrown around quite a bit on this site, so I shelled out the whopping $1 and took it home…pardon my ignorance, but what is the technical name for this? "V" chisel??



















I don't think I have any use for it, especially since its quite dull (like me!) and I'm not sure exactly what its purpose is…carving maybe?


----------



## racerglen

Yup, carving, and "V" both fit..
They're used to cut and pare "lines"..And from personal experience a pain to sharpen !
Good luck !


----------



## mochoa

Also known as Parting tool, V gouge.. an essential tool in carving, one of the first you should have. You may have started to slide down a new slope


----------



## mochoa

Hey I have that same scab on my wrist, Been doing a lot of planing latley I see? That part of my wrist rubbs against the side of the plane.


----------



## carguy460

Mauricio - yeah, that annoying callous thing on the wrist really drives me nuts…it got started because I hang my wrist on the steering wheel of my truck…then I jumped into this whole "woodworking" deal and it gets 10x worse when I plane even for 30 seconds…

I've always wanted to carve simple stuff like initials or something…maybe I'll learn how to sharpen this thing and give it a shot. Is this Marples brand a brand I should strive to stick to as I collect additional carving tools??

Thanks for noticing the wrist callous and not mentioning anything about my sock-in-sandal situation in the first pic…that drives my wife nuts, so I try to always wear socks with my sandals and just hope nobody else sees…looks like I was caught this time though…


----------



## mochoa

haha, i had to look real hard for that socked toe.

I've never seen a Marples carving tool so I'm not sure how easy a complete set would be to find, I wouldnt get hung up on that, get the carving tools as you can find them, I mix and match brands, I dont have many but most of mine are pfeil, store bought because ebay is a crap shoot for finding chisels of a particular sweep and size.

You'r not going to be carving any roman letters with that tool, but you can gouge out some rough letters that wont look to bad.


----------



## Loren

Regarding calluses: they do serve a purpose but when I play
a lot of guitar I develop troublesome calluses on both hands - 
they wouldn't be a big problem except I get an uneven 
sound from them. The solution is to file them smooth with 
an emery board and/or fine sandpaper.

Marples did make carving tools in the past. A good, solid English
brand. You can get them at online auctions.

I recommend if you're getting into carving and have no tools
to look at he Flexcut tools. They are not traditional but they
are a bit more versatile than the old style of tools.


----------



## carguy460

Loren - thanks for the info, I'll check out the Flexcut stuff. And I know what you mean about the guitar callouses, but after playing a 4 hour gig on saturday night I become thankful that I have them! Well…maybe its not the callouses preventing the sore fingers…maybe its all the free beer…

I really regret picking up that V chisel/gouge/thingy now…all you guys have done is make me want to start using it, then start wanting more, then here we go again…another tool affliction…bollocks!


----------



## mochoa

Anyone know the best place to get Brass Furrels for tool handles? Whats the standard 3/4"?


----------



## RGtools

Lee valley sells them in assorted sizes.


----------



## mochoa

Have you used them? Look thin and I don't like that lip on them.


----------



## ShaneA

Question…dovetail and skewed chisels…are they worthwhile additions, indespensable tools, or hooey? Somewhere in between?

In my continued path to hoard all things woodworking, a couple of these buggers have caught my eye. Kind of spendy, just wanted to bounce it off the panel. Thanks for any insight, as always.


----------



## dbray45

I make copper ferrules from copper pipe. You can get brass pipe and do the same thing. Just an idea


----------



## mochoa

Can I get brass pipe down at HD or Lowes?


----------



## donwilwol

Mauricio, look in the gas plumbing section. Also there was an article in shopnotes a few issues back about making ferrules out of brass gas pipe nuts. Basically you turn the piece, screw the nut on, then using a file, turn the nut round on the lathe.


----------



## bandit571

I spent over 22 years making rubber hose. We'd get brass "ferrels" by the barrel full. They go on a hose, the fitting is pressed in to the end, and a crimper mashes things together nice and tight. If you can find a shop that repairs hoses, ask them for a couple. Just an idea….


----------



## mochoa

Interesting idea Don, I've seen those at my local ACE hardware, it would be much easier to screw it on tight than to bang on a furrel. I think I'll check the gas pluming section first though.

Thanks Bandit, I've seen those online, they seem to sell a lot of them for air hoses. I think they may be a little thin for a tool handle thought.


----------



## dbray45

Yes, HD and Lowes have threaded brass nipples (don't go there!) pipe in different sizes from 2"-6" in 1/2" and 3/4".

A buffing wheel will make these look really nice after you cut the threads off.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks db!


----------



## Bertha

I just received a call about nipples. Just here to help.


----------



## donwilwol

Al, were they brass nipples?


----------



## Bertha

Maybe


----------



## CyberDyneSystems

No pics yet, but I've been working on a collection of vintage James Swan chisels, a mix of socket and tang.

My mobile set (ie: ones I could live with losing) are the older Marples blue chip, back when they were still made in England.


----------



## vipond33

I've got maybe 40 chisels in my box, various makes, but this is a favourite for truing and paring and sometimes glue cleanup (!). Henry Taylor, circa 1980, 1 1/4" with 9" blade.


----------



## Loren

Oh that's a beauty.


----------



## Bertha

Whoa, that Henry Taylor is gorgeous. How do you like the crank angle? Does it feel natural? That sucker looks really expensive.


----------



## Bertha

Cyberdyne, I've got a James Swan problem, too And a Witherby problem, and a Butcher problem, lol.


----------



## vipond33

The angle is real comfortable and with the long slim handle you can get different grips. The blade is rather thin and quite springy with lands tapering down to 1/32" at the tip. Heart attack price at the time as I remember ($120?) but I lusted.
gene


----------



## Bertha

Gene, that's clearly some money well spent. You still love it, after all. I'm known for impulse purchases, based solely upon lust


----------



## dbray45

Very nice Gene. Thats what I am looking for but don't have the budget.


----------



## CyberDyneSystems

"Cyberdyne, I've got a James Swan problem, too And a Witherby problem, and a Butcher problem, lol."

Oh yeah, and Pexto, Jennings, Barton, etc…

But I have the softest spot in my heart for the Swans, as the first vintage tool I ever owned were a pair of Swan mortise chisels my Dad gave me nearly 30 years ago.

Now, i've been looking for some vintage crank handles for ages, ... but have never found anyone selling that didn't know what they should ask.. ;-) 
Some day I'll bite the bullet and just pay up!


----------



## Bertha

Cyber, Pexto and Bartons I forgot!!! If you've got Swan mortisers, you're in the big league. Those are VERY valuable, but I don't have to tell you that. Good luck on the cranks; they're so unfamiliar that those that know…they know. I've kind of drifted toward the Butchers. I've got a Swan drawknife that is among my prized possessions (in life). Chisels are unlike planes; you might actually find them in the wild. Happy hunting, Cyber, and if you find multiples of those cranks, let me know!!!  al
.


----------



## bandit571

I'll have to go back and copy the name stamped on this little 1-3/8" wide chisel. Just remembered it: VANDECAMP









That is a #5 Jack plane, 14" long, sitting beside it. A "head-on" view..


----------



## Bagtown

Hello chisel experts,

Can someone tell me what is meant by a "firmer" chisel?

Thanks,

Mike


----------



## lysdexic

Great question Mike.


----------



## bandit571

Most paring chisels have a beveled side profile. The Firmer chisels have a square profile. They are called firmer because they are a little more stout than the thinner paring chisels. Make any sense??


----------



## Loren

Top to bottom:

1. Buck bros crank neck 1 3/8" 
2. Sorby 1" framing chisel
3. Swan framing chisel
4. Sorby heavy duty sash mortise chisel
5. Sorby "registered" mortise/firmer chisel 
6. Barr bench chisel
7. Marples "split proof" bevel-edged chisel
8. Japan chisel


----------



## Loren

1. Got it and several others at an estate sale for the widow
of a patternmaker I think. Nice find, early on in my woodworking.

2-8 bought in online auctions or new except no. 3 which I found
at an estate sale for some folks who had done antique 
dealing.

I thought it would be nice to show the scale and proportions
of the different styles of chisels. The long Sorby is about 19".


----------



## ShaneA

Loren, the Barr chisel is quite attractive.

Let me throw a vintage question out there, if I may…I have a couple of Swan chisels I got from ebay. Like them, and probably looking to get more. Can anyone give.me an idea on the differences I see in the logos? Mine say James Swan, and have pic of swan. I see others the look like only the swan is on them, and etched deeper. Is one older, more desireable/spendy? Am I just imagining stuff…again?


----------



## DaddyZ

Shane - Just google James Swan Logos & you should be able to get a lot of info.


----------



## lysdexic

You're just imagining stuff…again. Just here to help.


----------



## donwilwol

Am I just imagining stuff…again?

Isn't that what we do here?


----------



## Bertha

Scott's right, you're just imagining things. Let's decide upon a price and send them toward me; I'll sort it out


----------



## racerglen

Some of my "oldies" 









a 3/4 inch Mayhew and a 1" Craftsman (beat me, beat me) solid steel rough guys, then a 1/4" Marples "Shamrock" brand, a 3/8" Stanley with Marples handle, a 1/2" Stanley and a much older Marples 1" with my first ever try at turning a handle (ash or plum?) it's ugly, but I havent managed to break it (dang it !) 
The two Stanleys and the 1/4" Marples were inherited from my grandfather in law, all the wood handled ones ring if you tap the blades with a fingernail, a clear bell type sound, never noticed that with my more work a day types..


----------



## Bertha

Middle-right 1/2" socket. Long as time. I suggest you send it to me, Glen


----------



## vipond33

Glen, that 1/4" Shamrock sends my heart aflutter. Like em long, shiny and sharp.
gene


----------



## racerglen

Thanks Gene, gramps has been gone about 20 years, I try to keep them up.
Al..you'd probably use it for trimming your toenails..;-)

Funny the Stanley ones look like they should be el cheapos by the logo and the way the made in USA, oops..U.S.A. is stamped, but like I say tap and "boinnnng"


----------



## ShaneA

I know I have imagined a lot of things in my life….who hasnt, right? But I would like to think this is photo proof.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/THREE-JAMES-SWAN-SOCKET-CHISELS-/290752107941?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b22d15a5

Do the Swan chisels you guys have use the swan only logo, or the James Swan Co with the logo?


----------



## vipond33

ShaneA - Funny how those chisels are very soft in the body grinds and how the sharpened bevels are quite high. They seem hardly used, but ready to go again in the right hands. Lots of work to flatten the backs I would think.

Speaking of old, a couple of years ago I inherited 6 chisels from my fathers workshop. He would have bought these late 50's early 60's.

















I keep them sharpened low for paring and they take a keen edge quite well. Hold it pretty good too. I like the thin bodies that taper out to nothing at the tips.

















Anyone here knowledgeable about them?


----------



## ShaneA

I see them a lot on Ebay Gene, but know nothing of them, but they go for kinda spendy prices. That is some serious shine coming off them. Nice looking set, you got some good stuff there.


----------



## Loren

Berg Eskiltuna are serious good chisels. I don't know
how they compare with modern chisels but in the 1960s
and 70s I think they were the about the best in the
West. It was a sparse time for fine tools, with the
fine trades in decline and the hobby market inconsequential..


----------



## DamnYankee

Kinda new with chisels. I won a set of Irwin Marples at one of our woodworking group meetings. Prior to that I had some old beat up stanleys that I have since cleaned up and properly sharpened.

I am interested in expanding my chisels, any recommendations would be appreciated. Not looking to spend $100+ per chisel, but willing to pay for something decent. Don't think my skills are where they need to be to truely appreciate, and properly use, a really high-dollar chisel but on the other hand I don't want to buy something I will quickly regret.


----------



## Loren

Get some made with high carbon steel. The rust resistant
chrome vanadium steels used in some chisels doesn't hold 
an edge as well.

Chisel performance is more about sharpening them well
than anything else. Better chisels take a slightly more
acute edge than the worse ones but more usefully hold
a relatively sharp edge longer in use.


----------



## DamnYankee

Thanks Loren. That's pretty much in line with everything I've read/heard.

Much like knives, which I am more familiar with.


----------



## ShaneA

The Ashley Isles chisels I got recently seem to be really nice, and dont cost an arm or a leg.


----------



## waho6o9

An interesting video with Tommy Mac on sharpening and costs, etc. 
Water stones work well for me and make a nice sharp edge quickly.


----------



## chrisstef

I was just reading up on chisels and found out the James Swan Co. was local to CT. Originally manufactured in Ansonia and Seymour CT. About an hour from me down in the valley. Now that im in good shape with my hand planes im moving to chisels. Tag sales and flea markets look out …


----------



## dbray45

Chrisstef - Its funny you say that. Just got done at the dentist and he asks me - want any old chisels? He comes back with an old wooden box with a couple of framing corner chisels - one is too rusty to get a name off of it but judging by its look it is and old Swan. The other is a Swan -


----------



## dbray45

I may be interested in swapping one or both (will update the pics if anybody is interested) for lathe, carving, or other chisels - send me a PM.

These are serious framing corner chisels - the one pictured looks like it was never or almost never used. The handle and ferrule were not attached.

As it turns out - the handle has "Corner Chisel" with the initials OKM (underscore) AR written on it in pencil


----------



## dbray45

The other chisel is not a Swan - not sure what it is - any ideas:


----------



## RGtools

^I think I need to inspect this more closely for further identification…send it my way.


----------



## ShaneA

Looks like a swan to me….I have seen at least 3 different logos for them. A pic of just a swan. Like I linked above (somewhere), the logo on yours, and one with a pic of a swan and the james swan co, seymour ct written around it. Those should fetch a nice amount. I am digging the swan chisel.


----------



## carguy460

Took a nice vacation this weekend…came home to some awesome chisel talk!!!! I don't have any chisels of anyones dreams, but most of my collection was my grandfathers:








The 3 on the right are my lowes bought cheap-o stanleys…










Inherited Stanley 60's and one Handyman 1252 (I know nothing about chisels!)










The ones without handles…1 is a Whitherby, the other 3 are stamped "Mayhew"...maybe not made for woodworking but Dad has used them for paring and mortice operations over the years with success…

The red handled chisel was the one my dad gave me when I was about 5…I think it was a Stanley, all marks are gone now. I spent many an hour using that red handled chisel on scrap lumber and on assorted beams in my dads shed, much to his dismay…


----------



## racerglen

Jason, the Mayhew and Whitherby chisels are made for woodworking, but the sort where you use a steel hammer to pound them, serious take a licking stuff.
I posted a Mayhew of mine and a Craftsman a ways back. They'd been used as metal chisels when I picked them up in a 2nd hand shop..took a LOT of grinding and stone work to get them back to wood again ;-)


----------



## carguy460

Thanks for the info, Glen…I wasnt too sure about them with that steel button on top.

Does anyone have a good way of cleaning up those plastic handles without destroying them? The big chisel on the far left needs some serious TLC, but I'm scared to use any solvent, sandpaper, etc for fear of eating the handle…


----------



## racerglen

Acetone, wipe on, wipe off and check the results.
I've had good luck that way with a couple of chisels.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

Gene :
the name Erik Anton Berg on those chisels says alot about what quality they are … the highest possible 
and you can find it on planeirons as well 
the shark is still to be seen on tools from sweden but with another brandname and it still stands for high quality

the brand today is …... Sandviik / Bacho

thugh unfortunaly today they don´t make wooden handled chisels :-(

take good care of them and they will sing for you 

take care
Dennis


----------



## chrisstef

I think you had it cleared up all ready david but for other thread followers that unidentified chisel is a pexto. Another connecticut company and a pretty reputable one at that.


----------



## Bertha

This may be my favorite thread.


----------



## Bagtown

I just got Narex 1/4" and 3/8" mortising chisels from LV.
Not fancy or classic tools by any means, but what a difference chopping a mortise with these.


----------



## JGM0658

Ok, I think it was discussed in another thread but I wanted to see what you all thought. Who is in favor of a secondary bevel on mortising chisels and who is not and why? I have a set of Ray Isle chisels and frankly I am starting to think that secondary bevel is a PITA. It prevents the chisel from really digging into the wood, if you are not careful it pushes the marked edge way past the line (important if you are doing through tenons), every time I use my mortising chisels I feel there is something wrong, they are sharp but it takes forever to do a mortise…tap, tap , tap, clean up, tap, tap, tap, clean up, and so on…..it is for the birds.


----------



## ShaneA

I agree I have the narex set too, and if I am only doing a few or working on a large piece, I use the chisels. It is quicker than I would have guessed. The mortising machine has been gathering some dust.

Could somebody enlighten me, if that is even possible, to the proper "reveal" or depth a socket chisel's handle should be seated? I like the aesthetics of them flush or maybe 1/16"...but what is proper or preferred? Anyone educated me on this?


----------



## ShaneA

I have a secondary bevel on my mortice chisels, no bevel on the back. Honestly dont have enough experience with them, especially on through tenons, which are extra pimp….but an extra PITA.


----------



## Loren

Secondary bevel on a big mortise chisel lets the chisel
edge hold up tough woods while the more acute primary
bevel allows maneuverability in deep mortises. In furniture
work these factors may not matter as much as in heavier work.


----------



## Loren

Duh. Are you guys talking about putting a back bevel on
a mortise chisel?


----------



## JGM0658

I understand the reason Loren, I just don't see evidence that the edge holds up that much better. Of course this is only my personal observation.


----------



## Bertha

I'm a no-bevel guy on mortise chisels. I'm even a hollow-grind guy, sometimes fresh off the wet wheel. For a paring chisel, work whatever magic you've got; that's my theory. For something you're going to pound unmercifully, I don't think science at the end is in order. I don't think we're talking about back bevels are we?
.
A few years ago, I sharpened a few tools with back bevels, ruler trick, whatever. At the end of the experiment, I determined them useless. Now, that's not to say they are; that's just what I decided, lol. Just like I'll never set foot in California, I'm unlikely to ever use a back bevel. I think Mauricio (who I respect greatly) uses them with some frequency. He may wish to comment. 
.
I also collect pie birds, so what the hell do I know.


----------



## JGM0658

No back bevels for me either. My question was for the front bevel, I am thinking of taking off the secondary bevel, I see no use for it.


----------



## Bertha

I'm with you, brother. I mean, there's physics behind the argument but I simply don't bother. I have no doubt that it probably performs better, but the effort (using my primitive techniques) is unjustified for me. Now, if I were an expert freehand sharpener, I might be inclined to work a secondary a few times before restriking a primary. Jury's out, I guess.


----------



## mochoa

I would never do a back bevel on a chisel, thats crazy.
I've kind of been doing the Paul Sellers convex bevel on my chisels which has been working well.

I've got a 10degreeish backbevel one on my smoother to increase the cutting angle but thats it. 
Oh and I have done the 10 degree back bevel with a 15ish degree primary bevel on a bevel up block plane to get an effective cutting angle of around 37degrees but thats a topic for a different thread.


----------



## JGM0658

I think this is one of those cases where the physics and the practice does not meet. I am one of those who start at the middle make a V and then pare to the ends, making that V is what becomes a PITA. The secondary bevel simply compresses the wood too much so you can only drive the chisel as deep as it is the secondary bevel. In my 1/2" chisel the bevel is only a bit more than a 1/4" deep. Takes forever to make a 1 1/2" mortise.


----------



## Bagtown

I think for mortising, just sharp and pointy. No science, just sense to me. You'll notice I said, "to me". 
I'm just thrilled at what a difference the morticing chisel makes.


----------



## bandit571

Since I am so cheap on the tools I use, for a 1/4" mortise, it is just my Stanley FATMAX 1/4" chisel. One bevel ( I think) and I just start at one end, work towards the other. About 1/4" away from the end, I'll stop, turn things around, and work the other direction. I count the "hits" i use, somewhere around 4-5, and move the chisel. A 32oz Ball Pean works very nicely as a mallet, too….









My modest stable. The big.old FATMAX is on the right end of the holder. Missing from this photo is a VANCAMP 1-3/8" framer chisel….









Sitting next to a stanley #5 Jack plane. If you would lok at the underside, you can tell a difference. The Edge area is shiny because it is STEEL, the rest is Wrought Iron that the steel chunk was welded to when they made this big guy. Has a funny profile, too..









Kind of a trapezoid , I think…..


----------



## pierce85

I wonder if a microbevel on the bevel side would do the trick without compressing the wood, which I think is effectively similar to the convex bevel that Paul Sellers advocates, no?


----------



## Bertha

I like Bagtown more than I already did I'm thinking Pierce might be onto something. I like pretty much anything Paul Sellers advocates. I mean, the dude's sharpened more irons than I'll ever see. Aside: watching Cajun Pawn Stars and they had an open breach Thompson and a BAR on the same show. Crap. Anyway, I do generally what JGM does. I watched Mr. Seller's video and that's one solid way to go. But like Bagtown says, "to me" with a 1/2" Butcher mortiser and a heavy mallet, I don't recall ever considering microbevels, lol. I think that if you edge out the outlines of the mortise delicately, the rest is just manliness. How we like it.
.
I'd kind of defer to a timber framer when it comes to chopping the crap out of stuff at full force. My home is timber framed and they all used Barrs. One guy had an Arkansas stone around his neck by a lanyard. He was hard to watch.


----------



## pierce85

"One guy had an Arkansas stone around his neck by a lanyard."

Yeah, I carry my Tormek around the shop the same way…


----------



## Bertha

The question is, Pierce, is it still 10" or are you skimping


----------



## JGM0658

My home is timber framed and they all used Barrs

Yeah well that was another reason I posted the question, my framers chisels have no secondary bevel (also Barr) so I thought, why is that if it was supposed to be better to make mortices?


----------



## Bertha

JGM, jury's out. I have no friggin idea. All I know is Barrs get me excited in an unnatural way


----------



## mochoa

I dont know if the microbevel is needed for chopping, my concern would be when prying or scraping out the bottom of the mortice.


----------



## RGtools

I came to the conversation a tad late but I would like to add my opinion. JGM what is the angle of the cutting edge of the chisel? 35 degrees is a bit steep. I own an Iles mortising chisel myself. The huge 25 degree bevel is nice for keeping the chisel clear of your work. The tip I have hollow ground to be about 32 degrees or so, I suspect that given the durability of D2 tool steel you could lower that angle down to about 28 without experiencing rapid edge fatigue. So my first piece of advice would be to lower the angle of the cutting edge of your tool.

The second gets into more dangerous territory. I have never liked the v cut method personally. It forces you to use the bevel toward the waste and as a result forces your waste into the bottom of the mortice. I prefer to march up and down the mortice placing the back towards my waste…what this does is harness the force of leverage of the bevel of the tool to work the waste sideways making it easier to clear. I stay away (8th to a 16th) from my mortise ends until I am at depth and I pare them last.

Happy bashing.


----------



## chrisstef

I need me some of the mortising chisels. I made myself my first "man hammer" yesterday and im lookin for somethin to beat with it. QS Red Oak head and Walnut handle. It will not be referred to as a mallet. Man Hammer has a much better ring to it.


----------



## mochoa

Ha ha, we havent seen that picture in a while Ryan, its a classic.


----------



## pierce85

Wow! I've got a set of LNs and never realized how huge those Ray Iles are by comparison. I feel so inadequate now.


----------



## waho6o9

Picture up the Man Hammer chrisstef. Maybe you can make your own
mortising chisels as well.


----------



## rob2

Blue Spruce Tools. Dave Makes incredible chisels. I only have one of his, an 1/8 " dovetail chisel but it has done a lot of work and is still sharp. The chisels are so beautiful , they qualify as art. http://www.bluesprucetoolworks.com/cgi/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=DT.125

They are reasonably priced for the excellent quality!!


----------



## JGM0658

RG so you kept the bevel? I think I am going to take the bevel off all together and see what happens.

I disagree with you on the V cut, but the problem is exactly the secondary bevel, the idea is to cut one side, then the other pop the waste out and then you have space for the wood to move and come out. The problem being that the secondary bevel pushes everything together and you can only pop a small amount of waste at the time. I saw a method where the guy first does the cuts all along the mortise, then he takes the waste out, and start over again, it works fine but once again what is the use of having a mortise chisel that is gong to take forever to make the mortise.


----------



## JGM0658

Wow! I've got a set of LNs and never realized how huge those Ray Iles are by comparison. I feel so inadequate now. 

That is exactly my point, they are huge and have good steel, but the secondary bevel just ruins the entire set up. they come with the secondary bevel but i just don't like it like this.


----------



## chrisstef

Ill throw up a post of the man hammer tonight … ill have to admit it wasnt the best i could have done but ive got more lumber.

To chime in on the bevels … no micro bevels for me and flat backs, no rulers. Cheap Stanley chisels … except for my grandfathers old 1/2" Witherby, which is an absolute dream to use but was a nightmare to sharpen.


----------



## RGtools

I did keep the bevel but it's quite small and not very steep (and because I grind on a wheel its a hollow grind which might be part of the reason I have not had the same issue).

I only take small bites in the begining to avoid chiping out wood I want to keep around the sides of the mortise. Once I am about 8th deep (or a tad deeper in brittle woods), I wail away at the mortise taking as big of a bites as I can (I have popped out quarter sized chunks of wood).

I see your point about the bevel and it might be worth an experiment to eliminate it completley. It would be a pain on smaller mortises. But as you can see, I bought my Iles for big jobs. The LN is good for small and medium sized furniture.

For clarity, we are talking about a micro bevel on the bevel side of the blade. The Iles chisels come with a HUGE 20 degree primary and it's recomended that you hone the cutting edge of the tool at 30 to 35 degrees to increase the strength of the edge for pounding. As near as I can tell JGM, you complaint falls into one of two things:

1. The steeper cutting angle is forcing your chisel into your waste breaking off little sissy bites instead of deep chunks of wood. 
2. Because of the steeper angle its difficult to maneuver the chisel in tighter areas as the bevel of the tool presents more area to the face of what you are trying to cut.

Is that about right (I am just trying to make sure I understand your issue before I spout a random solution)? Mortises should not take all day, or even much more than a few minutes so something is wong here.


----------



## JGM0658

Number 1 is the issue. I have no problem maneuvering the chisel once I get going, but as you state the secondary bevel the chisels come with is just too much IMO.

I don't see how increasing the angle "strengthens" the edge, if we look at this from a physics point of view I understand that the Y axis reaction force is greater with a shallow bevel, but so what if you compress the wood so much with the secondary bevel that for all real action you are actually making the wood "harder" by compression. Seems to me six of one and half a dozen of the other…..


----------



## RGtools

The wood you compress in that case is not the wood you cut, but I agree that you are getting into the splitting hairs category. Lower the angle on the tool a touch and I think a lot of your issues will go away. If not take a look at your teqnique.

Try and place the chisel further away from your recently wasted work, (instead of a 16th, an 8th or 3/8) This will force the tool to take bigger deaper bites do to the increased resistance of the wood being wasted. When you start chipping out wood you wanted to keep you have found too big of a bite. The deeper you are in the mortice the more material you can remove safely.

Oh, and in regards to this:

"what is the use of having a mortise chisel that is gong to take forever to make the mortise"

Because it feels so friggin manly.


----------



## RGtools

PS when I get home I will measure my bevel. I am only guessing at the angle at this point.


----------



## pierce85

Great discussion you guys, learning lots…


----------



## bandit571

FATMAX was a single bevel that I ground to a 25 degree edge. I start the first chop at the line at one end, with the bevel into the waste, second chop, I turn the chisel around, and work my way towards the other end. Four to five hits at a time, pop out the waste, and move on. When i get to the end, the last chop defines the end.

Most of the mortises I use are 1/4" wide, by 3/4" deep, by about 2-3" long. The "bites" i take are about 1/8-1/4" between them. The last batch i chopped out were eight Beech Mortises, into four legs. Take maybe half an hour between the layouts and clean ups, four all eight.

About like doing a full sized entry door's hinges, by hand.


----------



## JGM0658

If not take a look at your teqnique.

I don't think it is the technique, what started me thinking on this was the fact that I have used some cheap Irwin chisels to make mortices and they went faster than with the RI mortice chisels. My first thought was "what is wrong with this picture?" The cheap bench chisels work better than the supposedly made for purpose chisels!

The wood you compress in that case is not the wood you cut

With the secondary bevel you do, the waste is being compressed due to the larger X axis force element exerted by the secondary bevel.

I am starting to think that this secondary bevel is one of those "they did it that way in the old times so it must be right"....To which I think my signature applies really well… 

Bandit, the issue is not with thin chisels, the 1/4 inch chisel works really fast it is when you get into the 3/8 and 1/2 chisel that you run into the itty bitty waste chips instead of the good deep waste chips.


----------



## chrisstef

As requested … heres the man hammer .. and to stay on topic a freshly restored Witherby Chisel .. and a 12" Witherby draw knife. By no means is the mallet a work of art but hey its for smashin and this aint no runway.


----------



## ShaneA

Bravo on the "man hammer"! Kind of a catchy term.


----------



## dbray45

JGM - I tend to use chisels alot because they make short work of removing waste. RG makes a good point, as a rule, I keep 1/16" away from the outside edges until they are the last cuts and I make 2 to get through the last 1/16" - to keep them clean. The micro bevel on the edge side of the chisel does help to prevent the chisel from chipping, the micro bevel on the back tends to keep the chisel from digging deeper - to much and it will be hard to keep it going straight. It is better to work on your technique and see what is good for you. For me, I rarely hold the bench or bevel chisels by the handle. The mortising chisels, I usually hold by the handles to keep them cutting straight.

I have mortising for my drill press, they work nice - but - by the time I get this out, set it up, and align everything - I am long done using mortising chisels. Once you figure out how to make these work, and there is a knack to it, you will like them more.


----------



## RGtools

JGM

I measured, the angle on my chisel is 26.5 degrees, no issues with excessive edge wear. So me thinks you might be on to something about not using the recommended 35 degree set up.


----------



## JGM0658

Thanks RG, 26º or 25º seems to me about the same thing, that does it I am going to give it a try.


----------



## waho6o9

I'm liking my first set of real chisels from a fellow LJer. Thanks John. Now I get to play with my new 
water stones to fine tune them.

On a side note, my mallet is similar in design as Chris', and it's funny how the angles 
are about the same. Mine was made from cutting board off fall.


----------



## ShaneA

I wanted to throw this socket chisel question out there again. What is the proper depth the handle should be seated to? Is there a standard reveal? And how easily should the handle come out/not come out? Any adhesives to be used on it?

Anyone shed some light on the fit of the handle for me?


----------



## Bertha

Sorry Shane, I can't see this thread at work (someone must have said "balls" or something). When I was really ambitious, I'd cast the inside of the socket and try to reproduce it with 1/8" clearance at the apex. A little later, I'd just get a general idea and use calipers to get the anti-socket snug. I never use a leather grommet between the socket and the handle b/c I feel like I lose tactile sensation. I put the grommet on the striking point to give the handles a bit of longevity. 
.
I think that if the meeting point between the socket and handle is tight with a bit of shoulder, you won't have to fret. I've become sloppier and sloppier; and I've never had one irretrievably unseat. I use Gorilla glue for chisel handles (and not much else, lol). I think of it as a really hard spray-in insulation. It gets foamy, but then collapses after a beating, giving you a nice seal.
.
This is coming from a guy that hasn't been out to the shop in months. Take it with a grain


----------



## Bertha

Edit to above: I've also used "water weld" to seat socket chisels. I read the instructions and thought, why not? They are still my most stable sockets to date. No wiggle after many years and it's just like Play-Do to install.
.
I'm probably doing something terribly wrong, but I haven't been called out on it yet. 
.
Don't stick that Play Do up your nose, though. That was an expensive experience


----------



## ShaneA

Duely noted on the play doh….it does have a nice scent though. Is that wrong?


----------



## Bertha

Smelling turns into stuffing, be forewarned


----------



## Tedstor

I've got a perfectly adequete arsenal of chisels, but being a chiselwhore, I'm also always on the prowl. That said, anyone ever try/see the Hirsch Firmer Chisels? Any thoughts? At $20-something per chisel, they might be a good choice for those of us that can't justify the $50+ chisels.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=46403&cat=1,41504


----------



## ShaneA

No thoughts/experience from me, except for some enabling advice of …buy em, try em, and let us know. I am kinda a defacto Stanley plane guy, but in the chisel world. I want to sample many, Baskin Robbins style-then pick some winners and hoard them.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

Tedstor 
the Hirsch also known as two cherry is good chisels for the money 
and is German made

Dennis


----------



## Bertha

Hello, my good friend, Dennis I'd defer to Dennis about this one but they look to be very desirable. My local ACE sells Two Cherries, for some odd reason. They're at least twice retail but every time I'm there, I have to stop myself from the "well, if I buy just one every time I'm here" type of talk. At that price, I'd buy a couple and see what you think. If you don't like them, re-turn the handle and sell them on Ebay as custom
.
I'd just like to take this moment to reaffirm my love for chisels. I can't visit this thread often, but chisels are never too far from my thoughts. I bet Dennis can easily remember when there were only a few games in town; and your best bet was vintage rehab. Now, there are so many boutique makers that this could prove a serious disease. I love chisels. 
.


----------



## Bertha

Edit: I can relate to the owner of the chisels above.
.
http://www.rpwoodwork.com/blog/2009/11/08/just-showing-off-my-chisels/


----------



## ShaneA

They sell the Two Cherries at one of my lumber suppliers as well. Not quite as odd as Ace, but still kind of wierd. I also am tempted, but they have the polished chrome looking ones, it kinda throws me off. But, one day I will pick one up.


----------



## chrisstef

Those chisels gave me movement Al. I might have to wear a collared shirt in the shop if i owned those classy ass chisels.


----------



## Mosquito

I do usually wear a collared shirt when I'm working on stuff? Granted, they're golf shirts, and it's all I wear in the summer, but still


----------



## chrisstef

Collar up or down Mos?


----------



## Mosquito

lol Down, always ;-)


----------



## chrisstef




----------



## Bertha

Since you brought it up, golf shirts rule. Golf is expensive and it allows you to climb out of a broke-ass truck with impunity (a boat more-so, granted). I'm not sure I'd rock an orange one like Christef there, but whatever works in your area


----------



## Mosquito

heh, I don't golf… I just wear golf shirts because I don't deal well with heat, and golf shirts breathe really well. I like it, because they're nicer than T-Shirts so I wear them to work, and since I prefer them to T-Shirts, I don't have to change once I get home to be more comfortable  win-win


----------



## ShaneA

Hilarious…winninng with the golf shirts!


----------



## chrisstef

Golf shirts are pretty solid choice in the summer. I do have an orange polo, i do golf .. Bring on the verbal abuse lol.


----------



## ShaneA

Yeah, I have two orange ones myself. One w/stripes one w/o. No problems here.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

All
if you want two cherries unpolish you can get that too
they don´t require the same amount of laping the back
since the way they mashine-polish round the back slightly 
I gess that goes for most brands

a while ago I got a little parcel from Mads to cher me up  
among the goodies was two pigsticker chisels that need new handles 
still have to see what sice they are but they match those I already have 

Dennis


----------



## thedude50

I have been testing the new Stanley 750 Sw chisels they take an edge quickly and they hold it for a long time my only dislike is the short tote on them. I have huge mits and the totes feel like a toy in my hand. I am working on a new set of totes and Ill put them on one of the sets I have and Ill keep one set stock and see if they grow on me.


----------



## thedude50

Shane the tote should never be glued in if it pops off the fit is wrong or the wood is slick hit it with some 220 grit paper and pound in the tote hard . Also the clearance should be about the thickness of a nickel.


----------



## devann

Hi Al, I didn't know they made Damascus chisels. You are talking about Damascus steel correct? Is that what you have pictured in comment # 304? Those are real nice I'd like to have some of those. I'd have to get some bigger Gatorade top protectors for those. I use 'em for chisel covers.
http://lumberjocks.com/devann/blog/21182


----------



## ShaneA

Random collection/hoarding rant….it is easy, and a lot less expensive to begin a new interest in tools. There are #5 stanleys under every rock, a #605 around every corner. 1/2" or 1" chisel no problem. However, once the "sickness" has taken hold and you are looking for the 7/8" or 3/8" Swan chisel…all bets are off. "Need" a 602 or 604 1/2 Bedrock or 1/8" Stanley chisel to round out the set, sorry…time to pony up the cash. Once the cost of these vintage tools begins to approach new quality makers in cost, I lose my ability to "justify" it for the cool factor. I am sure all of you are aware of this, but being somewhat new to hand tools, those last elusive white whales are going to break me. Since I do all of my buying on eBay, my chances of snaking one past all my fellow tool hoarders is always slim. It looks like I will begin to have to hunt in the wild. Not looking forward to it, but a hoarder must do, what a hoarder must do. Sorry for pointing out the obvious, but it is what I do.


----------



## lysdexic

Well said Shane.


----------



## donwilwol

Shane, its may be obvious, but the solution is allusive. Hunting in the wild is good if you enjoy the hunt. But, It takes a lot of time and energy, not to mention money. Its an evil madness.


----------



## ShaneA

Yeah, hunting in the wild seems like it presents its own sets of problems. Time, for one, my soft heart for another. I imagine it would be hard to leave behind some soldiers I see on my journey. But, how many #5 baileys does a man really "need"? I can see myself being trapped by…but it is only $12!!!


----------



## lysdexic

Again, well said. That is why I dont really do much hunitng in the wild. Time.


----------



## thedude50

I prefer the buy low sell high idea as much as hunting myself But the shop is only lacking a few tools now should one continue to collect to be a collector When I pick a set to own i will get it done but buying un needed duplicates is Madness I would rather spend the cash on a stash of lumber.


----------



## Tedstor

In my world, if I REALLY want a specific tool; say a 1/8 chisel. It makes more sense to pay the ridiculous eBay/antique store price. The alternative is to spend every Saturday morning driving to yard sales and flea markets, hoping to find what I'm looking for. ....and buying a lot of what I'm not necessarily looking for.
When all is said and done, I'm pretty sure eBay is the cheaper option.


----------



## dbray45

If I am looking for a specific tool, say mortise chisels, I looked for a couple of years to find what I wanted. Each month I put $10.00 in a glass for these chisels. When the amount in the glass paid for what I was looking for or bidding on - done. In the case of mortising chisels, I bought the Traditional Woodworkers extra strong set (had the money in the glass).


----------



## RGtools

I do the same thing David does. If you are picky and patient you can end up with some VERY nice tools. Of course hunting in the wild has it's pros and cons.


----------



## AJswoodshop

I don't have a really nice pair of chisels, just some I got on sale at HF. One day I should get a better set though.

Thanks!
AJ


----------



## carguy460

Can someone direct me to a decent, affordable mortice chisel? I've been looking for a vintage one but havent come across one yet, and I'm getting closer by the day to building my workbench, which means lost of big mortices!


----------



## mochoa

Narex are supposed to be good and very cheap. Like $13 each if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## mochoa

Look forward to seeing the bench build Jason.


----------



## carguy460

Mauricio - I'll check into the Narex…thats about my idea of affordable!

I'm waiting for your bench build to be done before I start mine! I've read every bench building blog on here, and I need yours to be complete so I can have a full library of information!


----------



## ShaneA

I have the narex set myself. Seem like a good value.


----------



## mochoa

;-) If you start now, you'll still have a year before you catch up to the end of the blog, at least thats if you work as slow as me.

But mortices for a bench by hand? I'd get a nice edge guide for your router instead. ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

I was about to get the Narex set of mortise chisels on Monday… and yesterday… but I didn't. I ended up going with saw sharpening stuff first. I don't do too many mortices yet, so I'll hold off. I think ;-)


----------



## mochoa

I cant do mortises by hand, I'd wake up the kids and annoy the neighbors. Machines sound like a hum in the distance but chopping can be annoying.


----------



## carguy460

Lol Mauricio! I am pretty slow…I'm hoping to have my bench done by Thanksgiving….2019, that is!

I'm going to try to do my bench with all hand tools. I know, I know, dumb new guy trying to be a "purist", but its not like that at all. Honestly, I just hate…repeat HATE setting up power tools. My dad has an impressive power tool shop, and it seems like all he ever does is set up tools for an hour and then cut wood for 5 minutes.

Shane, thanks for the feedback on the Narex. I just may go that route.


----------



## mochoa

Jason, I'm in total agreement with you about power tools. But I would say go hard core galoot after your hand tool bench is built, which is what its for. Right know I'm in all out power tool mode. Except for tenons, I think those go best, more accurate, by hand. I'm also doing all my jointing (2 sides) before running them through the thickness planner. Also flattened the top by hand (that was quite enjoyable).

Get the chisel and try it out, why not, if you get tired of doing that you can always go hit your dad up for tools.


----------



## Mosquito

I was watching a Paul Sellers video on YouTube the other day, and he was chopping mortises by hand with bevel edge chisels… He then also did the Roy Underhill "mortise behind glass" and did a comparison between mortise and bevel edge chisels for the mortise. It was rather interesting, and had me thinking about picking up another set of bevel edge chisels… maybe a nicer set, and then use my Bailey's for mortise chopping? Has anyone else tried it this way before?


----------



## mochoa

We need to continue this discussion on the workbench thread! I actually have given this a a lot of thought. If your going all hand tools get the biggest wood you can find, avoid glue ups as much as possible, try to get solid pieces for the legs and try to make your top out of as few pieces of wood as possible. Glueing up 25 boards for the top, jointing them by hand would be madness. Have you seen that blog on the Moravian workbench? He did it all by hand. The top is one big oak beam with a tool well on the back.


----------



## Mosquito




----------



## donwilwol

did you see FEATURED TOOL OF THE MONTH


----------



## thedude50

Car guy I think you are talking about the dog holes yes ? and your talking about using square dogs I assume well the good news is you don't cut the mortices with a chisel for that type of mortice you simply make a sandwich of blocks between two full sized boards. I think there is a video of this method on the net but it is simple and all you do is glue the blocks in between the other boards and make them as straight as you can. you can even do 2 rows like this if you desire 2 rows. Thank god for titebondIII My design called for round dog holes so I went with the design But I think I am going to use a router to make a transverse mortice for a plane stop. I mean after all there is that whole other half of a bench just sitting there and I want to get some use out of it.


----------



## Sylvain

For the dog hole strip
look at this from Lysdexic
http://lumberjocks.com/lysdexic/blog/29544


----------



## dbray45

AJ - the HF chisels will teach you how to sharpen often, I bought a set and after re-hardening and tempering, I decided that were crap steel,

Jason - May want to look at Traditional Woodworker. Their Extra Strong Mortice chisels have more sizes and are seriously nice. I have them and I have not found a problem with them - I use them a lot.

If you plan to make square dog holes, pre-drill first, then square them up. To do this, use a corner and bench chisels not a mortise chisel. Make sure the top is sitting on a strong surface with scrap wood under the holes you are making or you will blow the bottom of the nole out.


----------



## carguy460

Oops! I fear I was misleading in my post about my bench, however thanks for the input on the dog holes!

I'm just thinking about the mortices for the legs into the top, the stretchers into the legs, etc…I guess that really wont be THAT many mortices…lets see, 4 in the top, 2 in each leg…so only 12 if my math is working this morning.

David - thanks for the heads up on the Traditional Woodworker chisels!

But about those darn dogs…I'm not sure if I want round or square yet, but I suppose I had better figure that out prior to starting!


----------



## SamuelP

Found this.

Nice Mortise chisel (needs a handle) plus some extras only 20 bucks.

I might bid if no one else does.


----------



## racerglen

Something new ?

Veritas® PM-V11™ Bench Chisels










These chisels are among the first edge tools milled from PM-V11 steel (Rc62.5), an innovative proprietary alloy. This metal's micro-structure makes it extremely durable, so it can withstand the impact of heavy chopping cuts without chipping or deforming as readily as other tool steels, even at bevel angles as low as 20°. It is also highly wear-resistant, with an edge typically lasting at least twice as long in use as an A2 blade before it needs sharpening. Despite its toughness, it is as easy to sharpen as A2 steel using common abrasive media such as water stones.

Our chisel blades taper from shoulder to tip for strength and rigidity, and have parallel sides and true bevel edges for clearance and minimal friction when working into an angled corner or a tight recess. To ensure the face of the blade is both smooth and true, we lap each blade to a flatness tolerance of ±0.0005" over the entire surface.

The blade and handle are connected with a tang and a socket-like ferrule. Flats on the tang prevent the handle from rotating. Turned from solid stainless steel, the ferrule seats directly onto the shoulder of the blade. Repeated mallet blows tighten the joint through use. Each chisel is superbly balanced, with the center of gravity at or below the tang/socket connection.

The hard maple handle has been kiln-baked at a high temperature to eliminate nearly all moisture and caramelize the natural sugars in the wood. This imparts a rich, dark color to the wood, while helping to seal it against humidity changes, making it resistant to swelling and shrinkage. The contoured handle fits the hand nicely and has shallow flats parallel to the blade back for finger placement. The domed end resists chipping from glancing mallet blows.

The chisels are available in 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 3/4" and 1" widths, with blades from 4-5/8" to 5-1/8" long. The 1/4" and 3/8" chisels have 30° primary bevels; the others are 25°. All have 2° microbevels, and require only final honing before use.

Made in Canada.

Visit www.pm-v11.com for a complete description of this innovative steel and its outstanding properties, along with details of our testing methodology and results.

The initial shipment is en route to our retail stores. We expect to have stock available at all locations by early September, 2012.

A. PM-V11™ Bench Chisel, 1/4" 
05S21.04 $74.00 
B. PM-V11™ Bench Chisel, 3/8" 
05S21.06 $74.00 
C. PM-V11™ Bench Chisel, 1/2" 
05S21.08 $79.00 
D. PM-V11™ Bench Chisel, 3/4" 
05S21.12 $84.00 
E. PM-V11™ Bench Chisel, 1" 
05S21.16 $89.00 
Chisel Set of 5
05S21.50 $359.00


----------



## Bertha

Those Veritas are friggin handsome. That's a two-tone I can live with. 5 for 359? I'm not so sure. That puts you in the realm of the niche ones out there.


----------



## RGtools

The handle design seems pretty solid on those as well. If I were looking at these chisels I would factor in that veritas is new to the chisel game and adding in the new steel is another factor that could spoil things. Wait a year for them to refine the design a bit more after customer feedback…then pull the trigger if you are still interested.


----------



## Bertha

*new steel is another factor that could spoil things - RG*
.
And how, brother.
.
My favorite chisels are Butcher (not exactly "new") and I've got some nice chisels. I'd wait on the jury.


----------



## mochoa

Caramelized Maple, mmmmmm.

It only averages out to $72 per chisel. You got to really hate sharpening to spend that kind of coin on those.


----------



## Bertha

^indeed, Mauricio; on both accounts. $72 goes a long way for a chisel. It's a really uncommon price point given Veritas' reputation for providing affordable quality. 
.
$37, my friend:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanley-No-750-1-4-1-2-1-Socket-Chisels-Good-Condition-/290767345317?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b31596a5
.








.
Can't go wrong with a 750.


----------



## mochoa

Somebody needs to pop on that. And its 3 of your most used sizes.


----------



## Bertha

Yeah, one of us needs to own those. I've got probably a dozen that I haven't touched, so I'm exercising restraint for once.


----------



## Mosquito

Not falling for it this time… I haven't even gotten the 4 1/2 yet!

Actually, I was thinking maybe some mortise chisels would come next, but you never know..


----------



## Bertha

Just sayin, Mos:
.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-W-BUTCHER-1-2-Mortise-Chisel-/200812264958?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec157fdfe


----------



## Mosquito

Strangely I don't (didn't) mind if my planes weren't a matching set, but for some reason I feel like it would bug me if my chisels weren't. I've been eyeballing those Narex mortise chisels for a while… I'm thinking I'll put that purchase off until I have the space to build/keep a bench


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Re: Matching hits home with me. I like all tools in a set, and it may be that quirk that keeps me from buying a Veritas plane. Bench accessories, no problem. Already have a matched chisel set (well, okay, more than one…) and all user bench planes are SW Stanley types. Reaching for different sizes of bevel edge chisels, and getting a completey different type, would be wierd.


----------



## Bertha

^I honestly hadn't ever considered that, Smit. I don't have a complete set of anything. I've got my favorites that I reach for and none of them are remotely similar. It's kind of the reverse of how I collect planes, now that I think about it. I don't have a WHOLE lot of planes, maybe 50 tops, lol. I like three patent keyholes and that's really all I like. Chisels are a whole different thing.
.
I guess I can pick up an Iles and get excited. I could pick up the whole set and feel guilty. If I ever fork it out for a matching set, it'll probably be Japanese. My mason jar will need about 10 years


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Completely off-topic, but I was given a toy train coal car once, an American Flyer tinder / tender, if you will, and that was the only car I had. I was a young adult then, thought it was cool, had it on the shelf in my room and always wondered what the rest of the set looked like.

Fast forward a decade or so, and I had located the rest of the set (pre-war AF) and bought it. Had to have the rest. It's the same with tools. Bought one #40 Everlasting, end up with six. The T13 #4 smoother struck my fancy, worked towards getting it's cousins. Wouldn't think of getting just one chisel of a set from LN, for example. I'd have to have the set. Now, could be four or six or eight pieces, but not one. Wierd.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

If there are types of Disstons that match, I don't want to know about it. But I do center on handles with the bird's mouth cut-out.


----------



## lysdexic

My OCD is strong. Matched sets are almost a requirement for me. Thus, my reluctance to dive into the vintage chisel market and the reason I held my nose and bought the LN's. Also, this is why my non-T11 bench planes have lost their magic. It is a problem that I enjoy.

**I really need to get some mortise chisels. I bought a vintage 3/8" "GIlpin " mortise chisel form the WodWright Store but I note that the back is not straight. Its like it has a 1" long back bevel. I haven't figured out to deal with that. How do I straighten it out?

Also do you guys hollow grind the bevel? If not, what to you use. That is a lot of metal to work.


----------



## Mosquito

Are you asking about hollow grind on the mortise chisels, or in general?

If specific to mortise chisels, I have no experience there.

For my regular chisels, about half have a bevel that I worked (a LOT) on my x-coarse DMT, and half don't really have a bevel. I sharpened them the way that Paul Sellers had shown in a YouTube video. If I'm completely honest, I think I prefer the latter of the two, and will likely do that with the rest of my chisels once I need to.


----------



## Bertha

Scott, I hollow grind my mortise chisels but I've been told by more than one person that I shouldn't. The arc off a 10" wheel should outline me with a secondary here and there. I've also been told not to put secondaries on them, but I do.
.
My biggest mortise is a 1/2" Butcher pigsticker. It's massive. Like 14" long or something ridiculous like that. If I had to sharpen it on a stone, I'd retire it, admire it.


----------



## Mosquito

I think one of the reasons I like the Paul Sellers method of sharpening them is that I hate re-establishing a primary bevel by hand… so annoying, and I feel like it's a lot of wear on my stone


----------



## Dennisgrosen

lysdexic I do have mortisschisels but they are the pigsticker stile 

you want your chisels back to bee flat not hollow ,round or backbeveled … period (ok my 2 cent )

I can see the idea of hollew grind the bevel on chisels (but I don´t use it) when you
sharpen and hone by hand since it makes it easyer to have the bevel registre to the 
stone or sandpaper 
on the pigstickermortissechisels I have I feel its easy enoff to hone without having the hollowgrind

if you find it difficult to sharpen and hone chisels on the right angle … as me 
I can recoment Veritas honniguide … maybee the best on the market today 
and you can use it to planeblades as well beside skewed chisels and planblades 
they shuold have a holder for shortblades too now

good luck 
Dennis


----------



## Dennisgrosen

don´t forget a benchchisel can do the same job if you are a little carefull not to bend it

Dennis


----------



## ShaneA

When I couldnt decide between Japanese, Ashley Isles, and vintage, I did what any sane…er insane tool collecter/hoarder would do. I got all three! But, like I mentioned many posts ago, the vintage ones I sampled were the common sizes. Now, in my desire to fill out a set of vintage chisels, or four : ) ....I see some will be hard to come by.

Which brings me to my next question. Is there any standarness (if that is even a word?) to socket chisel handles? I mean if one was to turn them, or have them turned (hint hint), would they be somewhat interchageable between sizes or makers? Or is each custom to the chisel? Even though I am working to a set of Swans and Stanley, they may not all be the same type. But matching handles would make me giddy.


----------



## RGtools

RE new steel…or new anything. Things just don't get fully worked out in the lab or even in small test groups. That's why games come out buggy and the first version of the front load washer stunk. Real work being done across a large audience is the only way to catch little nittpicky things and refine a great product.

I could be wrong, I often am (thank you Mike Rowe for that wonderful bit of wisdom)


----------



## waho6o9

Gotta make a handle for an old Stanley chisel. Kinda strange tang on it being
conical shape, then a barrel shape, then one with a smaller diameter.
Looks like I will epoxy a three piece handle and see how it turns out.


----------



## shampeon

There's no standard for socket chisels, no. If you're having the handles made, you can ask for the plug to be kept big and you'd have to file, sand, and cut to fit.


----------



## thedude50

FWIW I am endorsing the new Stanley 750 chisels As a best buy for the money And Amazon has them in a set of 8 for around a hundred and seventy five dollars they hold their edge for a long time yet they are easy to get the edge sharp The only thing I would change is the totes I like them a bit longer. The review article is in the works look for it soon on this old workshop,com


----------



## Bertha

I am endorsing the old Stanley 750 chisels. Dennis, I think you nailed it why I like the hollow (outside of general laziness). I find it more easy to register when you rock it into place for a quick sharpening. I'm not a back bevel guy, especially for a mortise chisel, but I understand what you're saying. It's also good to see you, Dennis
.
ShaneA, I like the way you think
.
RG, totally agree; I won't be buying an electric car any time soon.
.
Waho, what exactly do you have there? 
.
Re sockets: I've turned a ton of socket handles and none of them were the same. I've actually moved to prefer tangs now that the copper pipe trick is out there. Grab the blade in the vise and hammer the point home. It just feels very stable. Me likey.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

Shane 
there is no standard for handles ….. try to see if you can get around to use 
as many different type of handles …... see what you like to use and then copy them
or have them made just be aware that handles get bigger as the chisel itself increese 
it takes a little experiments to find the right sice so the complet chisel balance right in the hand 
when you use it 
some of those you can buy is too top heavy

Bertha what about buying a car that is driven by air .... ( yes it exist )
as you can see I´m still around from time to time and after i have hit the ground (i think)
I try to strugle my way back to the normal crazy humor I am known for … lol
and started to think of geting back in to the shop again
though still not have a job :-(

the neighbour had just felled a birch last week and havn´t moved it yet even though
it has been cut to length for firewood 
I better sneek over and get a few pieces before they start to crack so I can dry it proppely 

take care
Dennis


----------



## Bagtown

I endorse whatever chisels are in my shop when I need to use them.



Mike


----------



## ShaneA

Pretty good endorsement Mike, hard to argue with that one.


----------



## bandit571

That slick looks almost like a bit from a hilti TE72…. IF it is a Stanley slick, check to see if someone had added all the extra metal to the handle.

Hilti? TE72? Try running one of them all day for a few weeks, you will NOT forget that name.. May have been thought of as a hammer drill, but used as a small JACKHAMMER.


----------



## ShaneA

I have one just like it, handled destroyed too. I will be looking forward to see what to come up with.

T. Tillotson? Anyone? I picked one up in a lot 1/8"....english, I am guessing. But, what do I know?


----------



## chrisstef

I know all about the Hilti TE's Bandit, ive hung out twith the 900 more times than id like to admit. Where the pics at Shane?


----------



## ShaneA

If you can believe it, I am not allowed to use the camera. Something about I have no idea what I am doing? What is that all about? So to get pics, I have to the head photographer, aka the boss, to do it. : )

Someday I am going to get ME a camera! Oh, and a laptop too.


----------



## chrisstef

I totally understand … theres lots a things the wife dont let me touch too.

I had a few minutes between changing diapers, feeding, and soothing a hollering newborn to work on a chisel i got from my grandfather and low and behold, i do believe its a stanley 750, vintage. Did they all have red handles? I can clearly read Stanley but i dont see much of anything else.


----------



## tirebob

I too am a chisel freak! Well… I guess I am just a tool freak in general, but aren't we all?

I was fortunate enough to be in a position last year to buy my dream chisels (as well as a few other items) from Dave Jeske at Blue Spruce Toolworks. I can't say enough about these beauties! Form and function at its best (IMHO)!!! After talking with Dave about some of my favourite woods, he offered to make my bench chisel handles out of infused walnut instead of his usual infused maple, and I couldn't have been more pleased by the results! These things take a beating and have no marks to show for it. The dovetail pairing chisels are lovely to use, and all the other tools are second to none…

The second picture is of my Narex mortise chisels. So far they have worked fine, but I must admit I just can't take my eyes of the Ray Isles pig stickers… Those will one day be mine as soon as I can save up enough poker winnings before the wife finds other uses for it!


----------



## waho6o9

Bertha, it's a Stanley chisel that's 1 7/8 inches wide and I'm making
a handle for it.

My Two Cherries chisels came in, so I made a holder and put a 
french cleat on the wall for it.

The finish on the chisels is incredible, but Tirebob has the Bruce Spruce
Toolworks that totally rock. Congrats TireBob!


----------



## ShaneA

Drool worthy stuff Bob. Some real beauties, for sure.

Edit: Nice cherries! Interesting pic on the wall?


----------



## Mosquito

when I was out antique shopping, I saw two "framing sticks" they are massive…


----------



## Bertha

Bob, you are in possession of the Holy Grail of modern chisels. I'm wiping the tears from my eyes as I view your collection. You going to snuff your marking knives? Inquiring minds need to know. Spruce?


----------



## tirebob

@Bertha They are Blue Spruce marking knives you bet. There is exactly, the set of 9 bench chisels, set of 4 dovetail paring chisels, 1/2" fishtail, 2 of the 1/4 inch skews, small, large and ultra thin marking knives, marking awl, carbide burnisher, and of course the 16 ounce mallet.

A couple years back now, my father-in-law passed away sadly, and he left us all a little bit of money, but he was clear in his instructions that he wanted us all to use it for something we would not normally do for ourselves and to buy something simply to make us happy. He was a lifelong carpenter and past woodworker himself (we still have some pieces he made), so after much talking and discussing with my wife, I figured what better way to honor him and use the money as directed by getting a large arsenal of premium woodworking tools that I would use for the rest of my life and hopefully pass on through the family to the hopeful next generation of woodworker, and if that didn't work out, they would be that incredible yard sale find for some lucky guy many years from now!

I ended up with this collection of Blue Spruce chisels, a bunch of Veritas planes and tools, an LN plane and a nest of Bad Axes saws. My lovely wife ended up getting her Bernina quilting machine and a bunch of amazing fabric as this is her lifelong hobby. I hope that my father-in-law can see us from beyond using and enjoying these tools he made possible for us making gifts for friends and family…


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice set of chisels Bob, but I'm not sure what to say here… I mean, that's a great story, but not really? Unfortunate cause for the events, but very nice outcome, and reasoning behind it. My grandfather moved into a retirement/independent living home where he no longer does woodworking, and as a result I've gotten a few of his tools, including several hand planes. Things I shall cherish until I can do so no more.


----------



## chrisstef

A very nice tribute to your father in law. He was a smart man who obviously valued his family and was happy to bring some joy. Hell, ive got joy for you on those chisels. I might print out that pic and put it on my ceiling and have a little joy for myself.


----------



## tirebob

For sure Chris… I know how you feel. It is wonderful they were able to do this type of thing for us, but sad it has to happen. Truthfully though, using those tools always brings memories and reminds of us where we come from and what better way to honour those who came before us!


----------



## chrisstef

Amen to that brother. My most favorite and cherished planes i found in my grandfathers basement after he passed before i really started woodworking. They will never leave my possesion, i actually hope to pass them down to my son (who was just born). Every time i grab one i think of Pop and the things he would do for people, he was just such an amazing guy and handy as hell. Lots of people say that I have a lot of him in me … man if i could be half the man he was ill be all set. To Pop and tirebobs FIL … thanks a million.


----------



## ShaneA

Good stories fellas…

Bob, if you could, please tell me about your thoughts on the Spruce chisels performance and feel vs what you used to use? The skew chisels and fishtail are dream worthy…do you use them much? I recently got a cheap set of skews and find them very useful so far. May get some more. Thanks


----------



## tirebob

I was using Narex bevel edge chisels before these and the differences are many. The landings even the bench chisels are very sharp and crisp, but the with the dovetail, skew and fishtails it is taken to an even higher level. The edge retention is phenomenal and right out of the box, every one of them was ridiculously flat (as you would expect with tools such as these). Just a quick hone and they were ready to work. The handles really fit my hand wonderfully. Not knocking the Narex chisels because let's face it… Any chisel can be made sharp and functional and will do a job, but the BS chisels are just such a much higher level of product out of the box. It's not like they can make an average woodworker great just by using them, but they do perform extremely well and make your usual chisel work just that much more pleasant and a bit easier IMHO…

The only thing I can say that I *might* have done differently if I was buying them all again today, and know what I know now, is I may have elected to go with the butt chisels purely for chopping simply because they are a shorter and I have tried a few shorter chisels of friends while chopping for comparison and find them easy to control, and then dovetail chisels for strictly for paring. I only say this as the bench chisels are so good that they really work well for paring also, so really if I was going to have two sets for specific jobs, this could be a good way to go. Otherwise one could easily just use the bench chisels for both.

Now lately I have really been getting into the half-blind DT's quite a bit, and the skews and fishtail are phenomenal for these and you would not be able to pry them out of my hands if you tried. I just can't say enough about them! Once you use a skew and fishtail for this purpose, it is hard to ever do without them ever again…


----------



## ShaneA

Dang Bob…I was afraid you were going to say that. Skews are pretty useful.


----------



## tirebob

The skew and fishtail pretty much do the same job, but with the fishtail, you can use just the one chisel for both sides of the Half blind pin socket which is kind of nice when you are just into what you're doing and don't need to switch chisels for the left and right sides, but I find I still use both styles quite a bit…


----------



## thedude50

As some of you know I have been working on a full set of the I sorby Mr Punch logo bench chisels for the past couple of years I seem to loose them more than I win or find them Well I just scored a large number of them on UK eBay and they shipped last week I like the large totes on these and they will be right next to my New Stanley Chisels in my tool chest I am working on the design which will be a huge wall hung box Like the one by Studley it will be my next big project and the tools must fit in the box. Now what do I do will all the other chisels that wont go in this box Hmm see the Studley chest here http://lumberjocks.com/topics/40213


----------



## waho6o9

After the last piece was epoxied together I started to shape the handle
for my $13.00 Stanley Ebay chisel.
I used a Johnson file and sanded it when it was done. Watco natural oil
and Minwax English Chestnut 233 was used to seal it up. 
Now it's getting a leather face on the business end of the chisel. 
It was fun to make. Give it a try.


----------



## thedude50

Now that has the Beef


----------



## Bagtown

The following 2.0" chisel appeared under the Christmas tree,









Apparently it was on my Christmas Wish List.

One day I'll find a use for it in my shop.

Mikk


----------



## thedude50

Well if you don't have a use for the monster chisel send it to me. I am going to be building a bunch more benches and need the timber framing chisels set. I got to use the big corner chisel it was a bitch to sharpen but a dream to make corners.


----------



## Bagtown

I've sharpened it, though it was a bit unwieldy to keep square on the stone. With the weight and heft of this thing, one could do some serious work in large timbers.


----------



## Bertha

Bob, that's an incredible story. I'm certain you did him proud.


----------



## SamuelP

Waho - What type of wood and what finish did you use?


----------



## waho6o9

@Sam:

Maple was used for the handle purchased from fellow LJer Bob, www.bobkloes.com,
after sanding and shaping Danish oil Watco natural and Minwax English Chestnut233
was used to seal it up.


----------



## Bertha

Danish oil, the nectar of the gods.


----------



## waho6o9

My new to me Lee Valley Chisels found a new home, I
free handed the insets, with disastrous dovetails, oops,
and a french cleat to follow.


----------



## carguy460

waho6o9 - sweet home for your chisels! I like that solution, it just looks snazzy!


----------



## ShaneA

Yeah, it is sweet, is the BE Maple. Spared no expense!


----------



## Bertha

Waho, you avoided the mistake I've always made…you gave yourself a wide gripping area. That's just slick, man.


----------



## waho6o9

Thank you for your kind words, I appreciate them.
Pictures to follow when finished and hanging on the
French cleat.


----------



## RGtools

Finally got a running lathe.










I am so happy….now I just need a place to put the damn thing. Besides my bench of course.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/71148


----------



## thedude50

Rg what is the book in the photo?


----------



## Bertha

^you're kidding, right Dude?
.
RG, you're in for a ton of fun. Slapping a turning in a socket chisel is one of the finest experiences in life. You went slender for a reason, I'm sure. I always get shy on the lathe and convince myself I want them fatter (I think I'm OK in this thread with that comment, lol). 
.
Now that you're at the lathe, turn yourself a giant tear-drop shaped handle for a socket chisel. Make it ridiculous, like a pear almost. Make it to where it completely fills your palm and you're index finger lies on the socket. Shove it into a wide but short paring chisel. Tell me what you think. 
.
I did it one day just playing on the lathe. Olivewood into an Ohio (which I don't collect). It's one of a few chisels that I'd cry if I lost.


----------



## shampeon

I recently turned some apricot wood chisel handles, harvested from the branches of my neighbors tree that was pruned. This particular branch had been dead for a while, and was hard and dry. These are for some old Union chisels & gouges.


















I also turned some Texas ebony chisel handles this afternoon for some rescued mortise chisels I've been picking up of the 'bay and restoring. I'll post some pics when I get a chance.


----------



## donwilwol

Is apricot wood that dark, or did you stain it. They look great.


----------



## RGtools

Dude, that Anarchists Tool Chest by he who shall remain nameless.


----------



## shampeon

Don: the handles just have some natural Danish oil (toned with a couple drops of TransTint red). The branch may be spalted, but it was basically that dark orange color with the darker grain swirls. The other pruned branches (that were on a live branch) have been slowly turning orange.

I loved turning the apricot. Easy to work with, and took a pretty high polish.


----------



## thedude50

i thought it might be but my copy is blue so I thought maybe he had a new book out that I was missing.


----------



## Furnitude

I thought I'd chime in as well. I'm thinking about a from-me, to-me birthday gift and a new dovetail chisel is just the ticket. I have a set of two cherries chisels that I've sort of ruined over the years. I got some bad instruction on sharpening and, before I realized I was doing anything wrong, I lapped the backs so much that they are curved. The result is that I can't rely on a flat back for paring. In my little collection, I've also got a 3/8" Selby mortise chisel, a 1/4" paring chisel and a 1/8" Japanese dovetail chisel. I need a proper dovetail chisel and I'm thinking a 3/8" will do the trick. I'll eventually buy more but will have to do it one birthday at a time, if you know what I mean. I was looking at the Lie-Nielsen chisels and, man, they seem great. Another, more expensive option, is a Blue Spruce chisel. With Blue Spruce, there is the option to provide my own wood for the handle. I've got some mesquite given to me by my deceased father-in-law. I have made a plane out of it, and love the idea of using it for tools, as my father-in-law was always supportive of my woodworking. I think I just talked myself into it!


----------



## ShaneA

It is only your b day once a year, I say go for it. Spruce w/mesquite sounds kinda sweet.


----------



## shampeon

Here's the French cleated chisel rack I made this last weekend from some wood I salvaged from our old cheapie meranti patio furniture. The Texas ebony handles I made on Sunday are the second and third mortise chisels from the left. The honing rod on the far right is also Texas ebony.








The gouge and paring chisel have the apricot handles.


----------



## Mosquito

They look a lot nicer when you can't tell what they are


----------



## Bertha

Shamp, you are on a roll, brother! I absolutely love that apricot. The Transtint was genius.
Furnitude, I think we all think your birthday present is a fantastic idea.
I bought myself a gun for mine; the better half was not amused


----------



## shampeon

Bertha: thank ye kindly.

Furnitude: mesquite handles on Blue Spruce chisels are a heavenly combo, and an instant heirloom. Plus it's a nice gesture in memory of your father in law. Thumbs way up.


----------



## bandit571

Paid a dollar bill on today's Rust Hunt:









16" long, cuts 7/8' wide slice, per side. Per side?









I guess that makes it a corner chisel? Handle will need a little work..









Well maybe a little more work is in order..









Maybe some lathe work, instead? Haven't found any names on it, yet….


----------



## JGM0658

ok, nothing against you bandit, but a corner chisel? Really, who needs these things? Isn't it a basic skill to be able to make a 90º corner? I always wanted to rant about this, so I took this opportunity, sorry Bandit..


----------



## bandit571

Somedays, it is nice to make a 90 degree corner with ONE tool. I got this so I could chop some square dog holes, in Beech. Hog it out with a drill bit, pare the sides in just a few strokes. I figured i could use it as part of a set…









I seem to have a few larger chisels sitting around…


----------



## bandit571

I think I might be about ready to learn how to sharpen a corner chisel…









Any "pointers" out there? The pointed corner on this one seems to say it was sharpened at an angle, with the corner meeting the wood first. Any ideas out there?


----------



## thedude50

do an Google search and you will find loads of content on the topic when you do it the tough part is keeping the corner square and the ends even there is a video on the ln Chanel at you tube.

Steve dont let JGM bring you down a corner chisel is a useful tool. That guy never shows his work that is supposed to be so good. I am beginning to think he is an apprentice and his boss wont let him take photographs of the bosses work. A real pro should be posting weekly photographs of new projects. I count one project from him and it was a failure according to Himself.


----------



## racerglen

Bandit, Leonard Lee has a good piece on sharpening those guys, don't know if it's in the LV Video files or not.
I have a craftsman made monster one, what a bear to do..But at least they're easier than the V carving chisels
;-)


----------



## bandit571

The above posts [Note: postings have been removed]......have exactly WHAT to do with a chisel????

Kindly take your "Lover's Quarrel" to the PM level, where it belongs. Unless you want to be flagged?

Only a warning, and only ONE…


----------



## racerglen

On topic, Bandit how you making out on sharpening the big guy..?
I've only honed the one I have (believe it or not actualy made from a chunk of bed rail !)
I'll have to post some pic when I get home.
;-)


----------



## bandit571

Got the old handle out, just needed a little rap or two from a hammer. Looked into the socket. To make this socket, someone had to bend steel around to make the cone shape. There is an "overlap" inside that shows where the steel was welded together. Will have to get to the grinder, to fix some issues with the edges. Then back to stones and such. Might even get a "mirror" finish.

Tote will get done, maybe this weekend.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

bandit 
maybee difficult to sharpen and hone you will proppbly never learn it 
since there will be quite a few years between each honning … 
but we all have to start one place … at the bottom of the learningcurve 
with every new thing we try to master 
so go for it …. remmember the quickest way is to slow down with high consentration 

good luck with the chisel

Dennis


----------



## bandit571

A bit of a progress report on that old chisel:









A grinder, some files, some emery clothe wrapped around the files, and now some stones. Anything else will be when I can get to the main shop. No turning as yet for the handle, lathe is also out at the main shop. Mostly I have been working on this either sitting on my rearend, or out at the back porch. Did take it for a little test drive, in some old 2x Pine…









Seems the way to sharpen one of these, is to form a point in the corner. It digs in first, then the two sides follow along. Now, if i can just get that other edge to sharpen up a little better…









If one looks at that steel, that is not pitting, that is apparently forged steel. It has a rippled look to it. What do i have here? If you look inside the socket, you'll see where the steel was folded together. Hammer welded?? Going to go and look for some old pipe, to make the hoop for the end.


----------



## bandit571

OK, Don't really need a "Defender"...

Worked on that chisel for a while today. A little lathe work..









A little hammer time..









Some Gelstain called "Cherrywood"









Cut an old pipe for a hoop…









and this P. S. & W. Co. 7/8" Corner chisel is about done. Even got the sharpening about done. A little fine stone work, and this will shave my beard….


----------



## JGM0658

I am beginning to think he is an apprentice and his boss wont let him take photographs of the bosses work.

You are exactly right, just like you are an "expert" reviewer. ;-)


----------



## bandit571

> ?


?


> ?


?


> ?


?????

Time for the "Meds", is it now? Say, any tips on sharpening this big chisel ? It still needs a little fine tuning. I'm getting ready to drill some dog holes, and will be using this chisel to square them up. Will be going down through some old, very hard Beech. Four hits to drive the handle on the chisel, and it was standing up by itself. And, without drilling a hole first.


----------



## JGM0658

Time for the "Meds", is it now?

You should know.. ;-)


----------



## thedude50

Always the trouble maker JGM your a low life and that's all you will ever be. Your opinions mean nothing to me now leave Bandit alone. He is a nice guy unlike you why don't you go and try to make something since this is what you do for a living. LMAO You should try to actually make a project and try posting a blog on something you have tried to make and stop posting other peoples work.


----------



## JGM0658

I will post them, when you get paid for your "reviews" ;-).

Funny how other people's (notice the apostrophe you "expert" reviewer) *are in my workshop.*. ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Sorry, don't take any "Meds' Sounds like someone else should…

Take this BS elsewhere, like maybe Kindergarten?????

Someone, for being a "Pro", is acting very un-Pro-like. If you be looking for a Barny, go over to OFF_TOPIC where this BS belongs, unless you can say SOMETHING about a chisel? Or do you even use them????


----------



## JGM0658

Or do you even use them????

Nope, I know how to make square corners. For that you can see all the chisels I use (including framers chisels) in my shop pictures image 3 of 4 in the back row.

Being a pro does not mean I have to take crap, on the contrary.. ;-)

Sorry, don't take any "Meds'

Maybe you should… ;-)


----------



## bandit571

This is starting to sound a lot like talking to chipmunk.

Sorry, can't take any "Meds" heart condition. I don't think that other than yourself, anyone has been spreading any crap. We can go on this way all night, but won't prove anything.

"Don't mean nothing, not a thing" was an old saying, for me.

I don't mind, because you no longer matter…


----------



## JGM0658

because you no longer matter…

You never did….;-)


----------



## bandit571

Yep, you sur don't to me. Just another "mental" case hammering at a keyboard..

Ok, put up some photos of chisels! Let's see them, right here in the open! Come on, nothing to be afraid of….

Photos, or you ain't happening….


----------



## JGM0658

LOL….like I said, check out the back wall in my workshop.

Just another "mental" case hammering at a keyboard..

You sure got that right.


----------



## bandit571

yep, you are. I guess I'll have to show you what posting a picture of chisels on a "back wall" is all about, NEWBIE!









Of course, i have only being a Hobbyist, for over thirty years. This is MY "back wall", see how easy that was? That is about half of my stash of chisels, hanging there. More concerned about what they do, than what company charged the most dollars to sell them. A complete set of VINTAGE 720s? Or, make the rent payment? Chisel sets make very poor houses…..


----------



## JGM0658

A complete set of VINTAGE 720s? Or, make the rent payment? Chisel sets make very poor houses…..

Pitiful, I am sorry for you. Gladly I am not in that situation, I can afford whatever I want without worrying about the rent, house or shop.. 

PS, hobbyist for 30 years? Man, give it up…..


----------



## bandit571

Oh, really now? I am suppose to really CARe about how much money you have?

let's see, over the past thirty or so years:

132 chest of drawers…sold!

25 Hope chest/toy box/ cedar chest…..SOLD

45 small to medium sized tables…..Sold!

18 "Wardrobes" cabinets….SOLD!

10 full sized desks….SOLD!

Three "up-scale houses" for other people…..SOLD!

Six years of Concrete-Carpenter ( Commercial) work, building factories so others could get a job.

And I am still doing this because I like this as a HOBBY. I could not care less how much YOU blow on tools, doesn't make you a "PRO" in any sense of that word. It is HOW one uses a tool, or two, and what they MAKE from those skills needed to use the tools, that is what counts. As to HOW much you spend on tools….BFD!


----------



## JGM0658

You are funny…..clearly you were not a pro who made quality work if this is the way you think.


----------



## bandit571

Ah, but there is the rub, isn't it? I NEVER said I was a self-appointed "PRO"....

Give me a break. I haven't seen this much BS since they closed down the Poly-jive threads. Almost as useless trying to talk to you as talking to a wall, with the wall being the smarter of the two. At least it knows when to shut it's "pie-hole". must be painful to you to be amongst us lower forms, isn't it?

Still waiting on them photos of YOUR chisels, sonny-boy…..


----------



## RGtools

Anyone have a 3/8 mortise chisel they would be willing to part with? Found out my "3/8" chisel is more like 7/16 and I don't have a 7/16 plow blade.

Ironically. I can afford the Iles and it's out of stock.


----------



## bandit571

Don't have a 3/8" mortising chisel. Usually I go with 1/4" ones.

Nice, back on topic. Ribs were starting to hurt, laughing at the other… Lower forms, yep, I am talking to one.

Just about curfew time for you? Unles you want to go back to the JDC?

Still waiting on them photos…..

Yes, I am still here posting. And I intend to stay here as well.


----------



## lysdexic

Ryan,
I am right there with you. I bought a vintage pig sticker in hopes off rehabbing it but like yours it's more like 7/16". It is the only mortise chisel that I have. I have gone to TFWW website committed to buying a some Ray Isles but they are always out of stock. At least every time I check. Thus, I surf away empty handed.

Continue to vintage hunt?

Veritas?

Two cherries?

LNs?


----------



## bandit571

There was a post over on SMC, about grinding an old file to make a mortise chisel. Even George liked it. Might have to go back a couple pages, or just search. Depending on the file, and how you grind it….


----------



## JGM0658

Yes, I am still here posting. And I intend to stay here as well.

LOL, funny…... I thought I did not matter.

Lysdexic, I bought the RI, but if I could not I would go with the LN. It is just that I don't like socket chisels, I much prefer the tang chisels like RI does. nevertheless, with the pounding mortise chisels get, it is unlikely that they would come off. Having said that if you don't use them much they might. My Barr framers chisels all have come off since I use them infrequently.


----------



## JGM0658

Well, I am off to rest, have to install mosquito frames tomorrow.

Bandit, in that vein, you have the last word since as someone once told me, when you argue with an idiot, people looking at you do not know which is which. ;-)


----------



## RGtools

I like the LN for smaller mortises but as you go larger my preference goes towards the Iles. More because of the blades construction than anything else. On the LN the blades sides are parallel the Iles has a slight taper. If you get stuck with the Iles, you pull back on the chisel and it releases, on the LN that does not work and the socket design does not help you get the chisel out either. Granted, you should take enough care not to stick your tool, but stuff happens.

The other option I am considering is getting the bevel edge chisels from LN, can't afford the whole set at the moment, but I could get the sizes I need right now, and fill in the rest as I can afford them.


----------



## lysdexic

I got my tool stuck once. Until death do us part.


----------



## racerglen

Woof !


----------



## thedude50

jgm your a broken record and still you have no proof of anything you supposedly have done. Your no pro thats for sure. A real pro could produce hundreds of photos of their work so far i have seen a couple things you have said you made but no construction blogs to prove anything. You always think your better than everyone your a legend in your own mind and no where else.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm, ok. While on the rust hunt that sagged that corner chisel, I did see another "chisel". About 1-1/2" wide, at least, and almost a foot long. The area that a handle would normally go was all mushroomed over, Couldn't even see a hole for a handle. By design, maybe?? IF I get back there, I might just pick it up, might even make a splitting wedge out of it….


----------



## Bertha

No beefs here please. I mean, come on; this $hit's a bit played out, no?
.
Lysdexic, are you saying we're forever? I've been waiting for those words, tanning, oiling, and wanton waiting. 
.
I'd rather have a corner chisel than a mortiser. I've got both. The powered one has more rust on it than the chisel. What, no love here for vintage 750s? I have it on good authority (Smit) that even the new ones are really nice.
.
One pigsticker, Lysdexic? Sell/trade an organ that you have two of and start hunting. If you outbid me, however, I'll hunt you. My goal is a complete set of Butcher pigstickers; but that's a daunting challenge. The ones that come up are usually odd sizes, which is most odd. The new ones are probably superior but…you know…it's the hunt, not the money. Think of how many Iles a month of disability premium would buy you.
.
I'm not a big fan of the LN but perhaps I should be. I have no doubt that they're nice and one click…they're on their way to your home…in a nice leather roll, lol. 
.
I've been on a Japanese hunt of late. I won't shell for the new ones and Fleabag has been a bear lately. I blew my wad this month on a backup water system for my home. I'm so friggin tired of the city water being off. Like everything in modern society, it's a plot to piss me off.


----------



## ShaneA

Why not go new on the Japenese chisels Al? I got a set recently, nothing too fancy, but something to give me an idea what they are all about. There are so many makers at so many price points, it is hard for a noob to keep it straight.

I think I am on a 30 bid chisel losing streak. It is the ones that I lose by .50¢ that hurt. Then there are the ones you think you have down to the wire, and the price quadruples in the last 40 secs. Hard to sneak a couple 750s out of a lot. Many people out there w/keen eyes.


----------



## Bertha

^all very right, Shane. Gone are the pre-snipe days. I used to pass on 750s all the time about 5 years ago.
.
Like you say, it's not so much the money as the ignorance. I just like the pretty damascus ones and the legend and lore speak to me. I don't know mujihurohiro from a nakalakishishi. I just have a Tools for Working Wood problem. 
.
What do I know, though, I'm on a $hitload of meds. Three blood pressure drugs and a cholesterol drug With my temper, I'm told that if I go off them, my face will explode


----------



## ShaneA

Yeah, I have the same tool affliction. I just figured the names loosely translate to "round eye who doesnt know better". : ) Do all the meds help w/the tool affliction?


----------



## Bertha

^no the meds don't help. Well, I guess if I'm dead, I can't collect tools


----------



## mochoa

Shane what new Japanese chisels did you end up getting? My Ashley Iles are sweet, good for paring but I think I need something tougher for chopping across grain. How do you like yours?


----------



## Bertha

If I didn't lust for the Butchers, it'd be Iles all day long.
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/dept/TBMC/item/MS-MORT.XX/English_Mortise_Chisels_by_Ray_Iles
.








.
they're totally identical to the Butchers, probably better.


----------



## ShaneA

I got a set from mannyswoodworkingpalace.com I think. They were significantly cheaper there. I cant remember the exact name of the chisels. I basically was shopping them based on the stickers on the handle. That was really the only way I could tell all the makers apart. They came pretty sharp and flat. Havent used them enough to really say. They were "standard" quality. Figured good enough for me, because I am not a premium woodworker : ) figure once I use them, and compare long term to my vintage and AI chisels, I will pony up for what I like best. I already have too many, and I am always looking for more….oh the humanity.


----------



## ShaneA

Stupid question…Ray Iles and Ashley Iles, two unrelated makers, no?


----------



## Bertha

^I've never had the stones to ask that question, lol


----------



## TechRedneck

Ashley was Ray's son right?

I have some Isles chisels. If I remember Mads and Al talked me into ordering them. Excellent chisels in my opinion.


----------



## Bertha

I own a few of both but I've never understood the relation. They're quite similar. I'm glad Mads and I didn't let you down; I think they're absolutely fabulous. I own only one pigsticker to fill the gap in my Butcher lineup. They are equals and I don't say that lightly. The Iles just feel "new" when I grab them and I don't have the guts to dirty them up 
.
Tech, you might be headed for the Blue Spruce road. I still don't think the Butcher iron will ever be surpassed. I'm waiting for some metallurgist to explain that to me.


----------



## TechRedneck

Ok. I was on the right track. Ray is Ashley's son. I remembered reading the story on toolsforworkingwood.com

Here is the link if anybody is interested:

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/more/ilesguide.html


----------



## ShaneA

Ahh, good info Tech. So they are not the same company per se, but the same family. I bought the AI that dont come in the set of six, so if I wanted to pick up more, I would then have a pretty wide assortment. 1/8" chisel sharpening worries me a little. Probably wont keep it square, and then also remove too much material. I am such a hand tool novice. But learning lots.


----------



## mochoa

I have the Ashley Iles with bubinga and brass. 









They are very nice but they are made for paring and not chopping. I think they are made to be easily sharpened and take a keen edge. So when I'm chopping out waste for DT's I don't feel like the edge holds up very well. I probably just have to put a steeper bevel on them but I'm kind of scared to.

I sharpen free hand so I couldn't tell you what the angle is on them now. And removing a bevel that is too steep can take a while.

I should probably just go ahead and put the steep bevel on the narrower chisels that are usually used for chopping.


----------



## ShaneA

Yeah, those are the ones I have too.


----------



## mochoa

Have you noticed the same thing while chopping?


----------



## ShaneA

Havent used them enough to say Mauricio. I want to say I have the 1/8, 5/8, and 7/8 AIs w/o looking. I have been doing the little chopping I have done lately w/my vintage 1/4" stanley. It is nice and long, but the handle doesnt fit too good in the socket. Annoying when it comes out. Gonna have to get a lathe and learn to turn, it is always something. Being new to edge tools I cant really rely on feel or instinct to tell when I have gotten too dull. Makes it almost impossible for me to evaluate edge retention and quality of metal. Kind of why I went so grab bag w/my chisel selection. Figure I have to use em all for a while to really tell what I like and what works for me.


----------



## lysdexic

Re Japanese chisels:

One thing that I don't understand is what happens when the bevel reaches the concavity in the back? Is that the end of its servicible life?


----------



## ShaneA

I dont think they reach that point Scott. Seems that I read somewhere, that as you flatten up the backside, it more or less keeps pushing the concavity back. Horrible explanation ( I know) But I read it on the web, so you know its true! : )


----------



## lysdexic

Yeah Shane, I read that too but I still don't get it. To achieve a flat surface at the edge then a lot of metal must be ground off the back. Why?


----------



## JGM0658

You always think your better than everyone your a legend in your own mind and no where else.

Uh huh, just like you are are "professional" reviewer? Just give me a few weeks I am posting a project to put you to shame and shut you up once and for all. You have a few turnings this will be an entire house remodeling. BTW, your turnings suck, they look like store bought.

Al, sorry men but these buffoons start it, I mean to finish it. On the subject of corner chisels. I meant no rant against Bandit, it was in general. I really think that this is a skill one should have and that the corner chisels is a gimmick.

I have a mortising machine, but it is rarely used to do an exact mortise, I don't know how they do it in the magazines but mine does not work nearly as good, I cut close to the line and then the rest is done by chisel. Which, if you think about it, you might as well do with the mortise chisel to start. This is why I was working on the RI chisels. Since I changed the incidence angle they work a lot better. But of course at the moment I am working with pine, I do not know if they will work as good with hard woods.

Why not go new on the Japenese chisels Al?

Japanese chisels come in metric sizes, I have the sizes I use the most and I always have to shave a bit with the paring chisels to make the tenons fit.


----------



## shampeon

I honestly don't care about this pissing match. If you have to have a flame war, please have the decency to take it offline.

More chisel talk, please.


----------



## bandit571

Two reasons ( well, maybe three) that I picked up that corner chisel. One: Planning on SQUARE dog holes in my bench. Can't quite use a Mortiser Machine to do that. Two: this is also to replace one my late Dad had. Long since lost, last seen serving as a grounding rod outside the house. Why? Don't know. Three? maybe I prefer to do such things by hand. Seems a MACHINE is a lazy Man's way. Sure, they are fast, but, since when am I in a hurry. Nobody is paying my to chop a few square holes. Oh well, some people think they should be "Pros' because of all the money they can throw around a tool store…


----------



## dbray45

Bandit - funny thing, I used to think that the power tools were the fast and better way to do things. Not so much anymore - I reach for a chisel (mortising or other) and am done long before I could have set up the power tools, aligned everything, tested on some scrap and did the job.

If I were running a production shop and 10 or better of the same run to make - the rules would be different - but in my shop, doing one or two, a lot of the power toys are not used.


----------



## DaddyZ

Mauricio - What is the Club for ? Beating on your Holddowns ?? Yu have been beating something with it…

Nice looking dovetails !!!


----------



## mochoa

Haha, thanks DZ, that's my asian inspired carving mallet made from oak firewood. I messed it up hitting. The back of my machete when splitting some firewood for a stool leg. I now have lathe so ill make a nice mallet soon.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Shane - Hair spray on the inset portion of a socket chisel handle will improve holding. I sprayed the tips of several of mine and that, combined with use (I'm sure), solved the problem. It's a Schwarz tip.


----------



## Bertha

JGM, I agree about the mortising machine. I've got what's supposed to be some decent chisels (I knew the stock ones would be $hit, and they were) and I can't seem to cut a decent square. One of the major problems with my JET is that the hold-down hits the fence if you're mortising anything under 1" thick. I end up having to use a scrap spacer to jack the workpiece up. WTF?
.
I certainly wasn't going to pay for a floorstanding PM, so maybe I'm just getting what I paid for.
.
Hair spray? I bet Scwartz has a lot of that stuff on hand. I worked in a bike shop as a yout and we used hairspray to put grips on the bars. Should work. I use epoxy or "waterweld" to mount a socket. Don't laugh…I've got some heavily used ones that I assembled 8 years ago
.
Does anyone have a Sorby pigsticker? There's an Ebay guy with a slew of pigstickers for $39 buynow. Different makers but a lot of Sorbys. They're mostly strange sizes that I'm not terribly interested in. I've got an 1/8 that's not REALLY a pigsticker, a 1/4, a 1/2, and a ridiculous 3/4 that must be two feet long. I want a 3/8 Butcher desperately. 
.
I don't think the Iles stickers are badly priced. That's a lot of quality metal you're getting for the money. 
.
Man, I friggin love chisels. Mauricio, I love your mallet


----------



## TechRedneck

Mauricio:

I use my Isles for paring and general work. For some reason they are too nice to beat the hell out of. When I go to pound on something I reach for my no name beaters and go to town.

I recently picked up a set of those WoodRiver short stubby Butt Chisels. For the price they are not too bad. I haven't had them long enough to give a fair review, but reach for them often now when the mood hits me. Generally they are pretty good quality and worth the $39 or so I paid for them on sale


----------



## JGM0658

I end up having to use a scrap spacer to jack the workpiece up. WTF?

I have the Delta one, like you I bought better chisels, I sharpened them and flattened all 4 sides. But like you state, it is no good if the fence and the chisel is not at 90º. I still use it now and then for quick sloppy things like jigs or so, but the quality work gets done with the mortise chisels. BTW, the hold down does really suck, I can't believe they thought this was a good idea.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

lysdexic and shane 
I know the Isle´s say you don´t flatten the back 
but its a little the same way with japanese chisels where you have to maintain 
the flat piece on the back of the chisel ... should be easy enoff since we do maintain
the back on chisels every time we hone the bevel 

Dennis


----------



## Bertha

Lysdexic, I've been confused by the hollow back on Japanese chisels, too. One of two things has to happen, as I see it: 1) you either remove enough metal off the back to meet the bevel or 2) the life is dictated by the length of metal in front of the hollow grind. I suppose there's a third option; that you'll end up with an expensive gouge. I suppose you could get away with an aggressive back bevel but only Mauricio uses those


----------



## thedude50

Come on al the big PM is only 1200 dollars your a dr that is like gas money for you. I am seriously considering getting one for the shop and would love to run it hard to see what it will do.


----------



## Alexandre

Bertha, I'm planning to get a FULL set of Japenese Chisels…. 
When I get to NYC…


----------



## Bertha

Are we talking drill presses, Dude? Seeing as how my truck gets 13 mpg, the gas comment is pretty accurate, lol. I use my drill press maybe once a month, if that. For my work, I go Andy-style and use a hand drill. I can't justify a fancy one. I think the next PM toy I will get is the friggin cabinet saw. I like the 5hp with the router wing. I don't have 3ph and I'm not fooling with a vfd, so I'm limited on motor. I'm motivated to buy it because I hate SawStop so much. I'd rather spend $4000 on a PM than $100 on a SawStop. 
.









.
Sorry SawStop people, I can't in good faith apologize for my childish grudges. 
.
In terms of chisels, I just went and checked on my 1/8 Japanese that's sitting in BLO. I'll take pictures when it's cleaned up; I'm working today on my T/G plane.


----------



## JGM0658

I think the next PM toy I will get is the friggin cabinet saw.

Have you thought of an European style sliding saw? After the sawstop I think they are safer than the regular TS.


----------



## thedude50

Al I was actually talking about the powermatic hallow chisel mortiser the thing works great


----------



## lysdexic

This makes my nipples so hard it looks like I am smuggling tic-tacs


----------



## DaddyZ

Anyone else notice the Chisel Sharpening jig in the latest Woodcraft Mag ?

IMHO the guy sharpening the chisel is asking for a trip to the ER. Not only is his hand getting very HOT from the sparks but when that chisel grabs the sandpaper & throws the chisel across the room he will have to clean his pants…..

I think the jig is a good Idea I just think the guy is sharpening from the wrong side


----------



## lysdexic

If LV made mortise chisels with the new PM-V11 I'd pull the trigger.

Their bench chisels are compelling…...


----------



## Mosquito

I was kind of hoping to see the PM-V11 mortise chisels as well, but with the LV free shipping, I ended up finally pulling the trigger on the Narex set… for $75, I guess we'll see. I decided I didn't really like chopping out mortises with my Bailey bench chisels…


----------



## nwbusa

I've had fairly good success using the Narex mortise chisels. They take some work out of the box but perform decently for a value set.


----------



## Bertha

Scottie, those are some gorgeous chisels, I can't argue with you there. I actually like that Starship Enterprise thing they've done with the socket. They just look clean and sharp; I like that they included a secondary for photographic reasons. LV is really growing on me, and you're namely to blame.
.
Because I'm half sissy, I spend more time in their gardening catalog. 2nd best gardening catalog out there. 
.
Here's the thing about mortise chisels (we're talking "manual" ones, aren't we? Dude, I'm sure it's a fine machine but I'm unlikely to actually use it), I don't think you need Iles to chop a mortise. If you want to smile throughout the process and stop periodically to admire it, then go all out. I really like the rapid Sellers method and as long as it's sharp, you could probably execute it with a cut down lawnmower blade. 
.
Like Lysdexic, I just like to stroke it. Lube it up and just massage that camelia into the shaft. Worthy of a beautiful mortise chisel. As long as it's clean and sharp, it's one of the most fun things in the shop. I just hate marking them out. If Narex is making a pigsticker style mortise chisel (first I've heard of this), I would imagine they'd be just fine.


----------



## nwbusa

These are the Narex mortise chisels in question:


----------



## Bertha

Wow, John, they are indeed handsome. I wonder if that that's a ring in front of the handle. Depending upon the tang, it might be possible to rehandle them to something more….attractive(?). I don't care for the metal bumper. I've always admired the Butchers and the older guys for that reason…They have a massive wooden butt that tapers toward the ricasso. If you think of how you typically hold them (and strike them with a large faced mallet), that makes the most sense. I don't recognize the utility of the Narex handle.
.
Now that being said, if someone tears one apart and finds it full-tang, I'm ordering them on the spot. I suspect it's some kind of complicated tang to bind better with what looks like resin…can't tell.
.
Thank you, John. I am more than a bit interested now.


----------



## ShaneA

Yeah Al, I think they are some sorta composite handle. The handles are on the visually objectionable side. I have the set, but have only used them once or twice, so no long term report here. At that price, I am not bashful about beating on them, like I would be in the spendier ones.


----------



## Mosquito

Shane, the price point and not being bashful is why I got them. If I use then enough, and find myself still wanting something better, I'll consider a higher end set. But for now, those Narex are on their way to me…


----------



## Bagtown

I bought the 1/4" and 3/8" narex mortising chisels.
Never had any other mortising chisels to compare em to.
Handles are wood. Not sure but very light weight handles, some sort of softwood perhaps?
So far they seem to take an edge well and the few times I've had to use them I'm happy, then I'm easily amused so, YMMV.


----------



## Bertha

They make total, total sense. To assemble a vintage collection, you're looking at a ton. Modern ones, also a ton. I might order a set and break the 1/8 inch up (I have several and rarely use the 1/8). I'd like to know what the guts look like. It could be a total gem rehandled. I'm not convinced that pigstickers need to be of superior metal. I'm just a slut for the vintage ones, especially if they've lost inches on the length. I like thinking about a century of brutalizing them. I'd pay more if multiple owners stamped their mark. I've got a serious thing for pigstickers and lockmortise chisels. I don't own a Sorby yet (I don't think) and I'm becoming more and more interested.


----------



## Bertha

Who sells the Narex set without a ridiculous shipping price? I just had a large water tank and log bed delivered. I'm a bit angry about shipping right now.


----------



## Mosquito

Lee Valley right now has free shipping on orders over $40 (until Monday)... Highland woodworking has them for $10 less than LV but then adds $10 shipping…

speaking of Pig Stickers, I was at a used tool store (Tried and True Tools) and was talking to a guy about a Stanley #7, and he mentioned that along with that plane he got a bunch of chisels. Said all he had left was an incomplete set of Keen Kutter bench chisels, but had 4 Butcher Pig Stickers that they sold as a set… I thought of you instantly ;-)


----------



## Bagtown

Lee Valley has free shipping right now.
At least it does in Canada.


----------



## ShaneA

Lee valley has the free shipping going, they carry the imperical set. Highland WW may carry the metric set, which I believe are the light colored ones.


----------



## Bertha

Hey Mosq, you think those Butchers are still there? If so, there could be a good finders fee in there for you; or a new tool that you're looking at. I'm used to paying top dollar for Butchers, so don't be shy. I'll break the bank on Butcher pigstickers. PM or in the open, hoss.


----------



## Mosquito

I did ask, and he said they were already sold :-( I would have picked them up for you otherwise, though.


----------



## ShaneA

Mike you are right, the handles are wood. Beech, I guess. I just glanced at em and thought they were faux painted…shows what I know : )


----------



## stonedlion

Mos, I love going to Tried and True tools. The gear is always fun to look at, but their hand tools always seem to be picked over pretty bad.


----------



## nwbusa

Yes, handles are solid beech.


----------



## Mosquito

Is it the one up in Fridley/Blaine, Richard? I've been there a few times since moving to ******************** Rapids… Hand tools are definitely picked over…


----------



## woodworker59

I also have a few Butcher chisels, they are nice and I also prefer the socket type. My wife bought me a set of the wood river chisels that they have at woodcraft. they hold a nice edge, and do what a chisel is supposed to do, but….If I could pick one that I really wanted to get a complete set of. I really like the EMG's that come out of Germany.. very nice steel and they can really take and edge.. so far I only have four of them, but will fill out the set a little at a time.. have also gotten a couple of the Stubai out of Austria also a very nice piece.. very good steel in those also..I sharpen everything with water stones and the Stubai and Emg's will sharpen real nice and quick on good stones.. I start at 1000 and work through 1200, 2000, then end at 4000.. as they say very scary sharp.. great post by the way cant wait to read more.. Papa


----------



## Bertha

Papa, you are a Godsend. I'd never heard of the EMGs. Here's the thing about German tools…they're awesome. At work, I put up a big stink to get German-made scissors, etc. They're worth every penny. I'm glad you enjoy the Butchers. The short tang makes for some difficult lathing (for me). I'll chuck it in then advance the drill-chuck tailstock and sometimes they still hammer in a bit crooked. Now the sockets are a totally different animal. With a set of calipers, you're golden. For paring, I like a big fat teardrop-shaped handle. They're hard to store but a joy to use.


----------



## chrisstef

1 tanged butcher in my very small aresenal of chisels. Its a dream to use after a fresh stropping. Im hoping i can convince the wifeski to let me split out for a few hours tomorrow morning and hit these 2 flea markets ive been meaning to check out before the weather starts settling in. Im thinkin blueberry muffins and pancakes might earn me a kitchen pass.


----------



## Bertha

Stef, you sneak out, whisk a batter, and surprise the better half? You're in the tablesaw zone. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why the Butcher metal is so nice. I hope everyone that frequents this thread is broke, because the last thing I need is Butchers to be hot on FleaBag.


----------



## chrisstef

Thats the idea Al … it takes very little motivation for me to whip up a good pancake batter. Im lookin to be in the chisel, router plane, and rust zone. The boys just dropped 19 tons of steel and the scrap gods are happy and so is my tool fund and the babys college fund.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Chris! I typically go for making desserts, myself… I've got a 3-layer bar that's ridiculously good. Extremely rich, so I cut then in about 1.5"x1.5" squares, otherwise they're a little intense… It's sort of become my "signature" dessert… been asked for the recipe 7 times bringing them to a total of 2 work functions.


----------



## chrisstef

Im a dirty person with my good recipes. I got this Italian cookie recipe from mt great aunt (Thanks Aunt Edith) and a Settler's beans recipe that ill give out with altered ingredients. Ill glafly give out my macoroni sauce, meatball, and lasagna recipe though. Stuff like that should be shared but dont go jockin my barbeque staples.


----------



## racerglen

I finaly managed to dig it out..craftsman corner chisel..








in 1995 the maker was in his late 80's..(and he's still with us !)








It's an inch and a quarter on each leg, the sort of thing a log home builder might use..
He made it from a piece of bed rail, with a wink, "that's got to be good steel.." 
I added the walnut infill, makes it easier to hold, brass road for the rivits










the pencil's just to hold it at an angle for the shot..
And from the more distant past..









A 2" Buck Bros cast steel gouge..

























The handle's NOT correct, too small, and the octagonal part of the tang as it goes into the handle has been ground round..

(and my sharpening, although SHINEY ! isn't the best..


----------



## Bertha

Glen, that corner is phenomenal!
.
Stef, I'm interested in bean recipes. I don't know what it is, but I love beans; nothing else will do when I get the hankering. I'm willing to pay the price that a man pays. And it's a price. I went to a cajun cooking class at the local community college in New Orleans. I've got cajun recipes that'll blow your gourd. Lots of books scannable if you like.


----------



## chrisstef

Well i snuck out this mornin to a local flea market on the hunt for a #71 router plane. Struck out on planes but did come home with some real goodies. I was looking over a 3/4" tanged gouge, and while gently caressing and inspecting the gouge the booth attendent chimes in.

"You into wood working huh" 
"yea, and i really like cleaning up old tools" 
"Thats a good maker on that gouge" 
"Dont know nothin about it but its right up my alley" 
"I'm pricing Witherby chisel right now, ya interested" 
"Yea, let me check it out, ive got one that was grandfathers and i love it" 
"Here, we cant do $5 on it, save me from cleaning it"

Walked outta the place with a 3/4" Witherby Socket chisel (firmer i believe, correct me if im wrong), a WM Greaves & Sons 3/4" socket gouge, and a Stanley SW Hurwood scratch awl. $17. Great succes.





































Chisel will need a new handle without a doubt. Maybe i can twirl one on the drill press?


----------



## Bertha

Nice score, Stef. Let me see what I've got in a 3/4 gouge.


----------



## chrisstef

Thanks homey. FYI i did grease the wife with some breakfast this mornin but not until after i got back from rust huntin. Hooked it up with some flapjacks, taters and bluberry muffs. Mrs. Butterworths on the syrup.

From what i cam up with WM Greaves & Son is English made. Could date back to the 1850's … im gonna try and confirm with Brit.


----------



## chrisstef

Holy crap major edit …. its a 3/8" flat sided Witherby chisel. The gouge is 3/4".


----------



## thedude50

Al don't get me wrong I like making mortises by hand but I also am trying to make a living out of my shop as soon as the benches are done I need to be making a project each week and they need to be really nice. So the Powermatic Mortiser is fast accurate and will make joints I need quick which is a key for me right now. As far as Pig stickers go I am looking for I sorby chisels and they have to be big and ugly I don't want no sissy mortice chisels.


----------



## Bertha

No, I totally get it, Dude. I make a piece of furniture per year, lol. There are a bunch of buynow Sorbies on fleabag right now for $39. The Butchers are big and ugly, but I don't want any competition, so I can't recommend them


----------



## Dennisgrosen

yaa right Bertha they ain´t worth the packing they are wraped in when they arive on your doorstep …

take care
Dennis


----------



## Bertha

Lol, Dennis


----------



## Mosquito

Got my Narex mortise chisels in the mail yesterday… The girlfriend wants me to finish the sewing table I've been making her soon, so I'm hoping I can convince her to let me bring a pile of parts to my parents' this weekend, and let me work. I'd probably also give the Narex a few whacks while I was there…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Not a chisel, but a carving chusel mallet I made last night. First official lathe project. Handle a cherry cut-off, head is beech from half an old woody jack plane (no iron, or tote, or wood cap)...

Not bad!


----------



## donwilwol

Smitty, that looks great. I like the 2tone.


----------



## waho6o9

Nice one Smitty!


----------



## SamuelP

Nice new life for that woodie.


----------



## chrisstef

Whack somethin with that man hammer for me Smitty i love it.


----------



## lysdexic

Smitty, you are the friggin man.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Now I just need to learn some basic carving…

The mallet was fun. #2 son is in woodshop now, and showed me the criss-cross, spikey piece of the lathe is supposed to come out. Well, let me tell you, it makes setting things to turn much easier! So I played with it last night when I was cleaning and ran across the woody… Done, and,done! Not real heavy, but good feel to it overall. I'll treat with tung oil a few times and it'll look nice.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yes, lanel, I'm quite effective…


----------



## lysdexic

Oh lanellanko, my bag has millions and millions of tricks. in fact, there are more everyday. They are not frail and I doubt that you would disagree.


----------



## lysdexic

I have flagged the last three posts. One for SPAM and two for sophomoric, immature responses. Shame.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop




----------



## Bertha

Smit, that's really close to my favorite mallet here to date, and I've seen a ton. You couldn't have made something nicer for your FIRST lathe project, LOL? Start making them and selling them; I'd be total game on one of those. 
.
I've got an ash-head/birdseye handle that I made when i bought my first chisel. It's got a square head and squarish handle. After all the years, it's an extension. I have a hard time using anything else. I turned a massive one-piece walnut mallet that I use as a paperweight at work. Couldn't bring myself to use it


----------



## lysdexic

Who in the hell uses a paper weight? .....Really.


----------



## chrisstef

+1 lysdexic.


----------



## Mosquito

Who uses paper?...


----------



## Bertha

I have stack of $hit everywhere in my office. When my secretary comes in, she puts the urgent (translated, else you're in contempt) under it. It's the most likely thing in my office that I don't mind touching, so it works for me. People like to pick it up and emulate clobbering someone, which is also touching.


----------



## mochoa

Smitty, damn nice turning there. I need to make me a mallet, I'm still using my firewood "Asian" mallet that looks like a chair leg. Time for a new one.

Al, I think I've seen that mallet, it's a beauty.


----------



## chrisstef

Jumping in to share to what hopes to be my story of my chisels. Ive been stalking a craiglist ad for Stanley 750's new with puouc. It started about a month ago at $175, then to $150, finally to $120. I couldnt take any more i needed them in my life. I called within 5 minutes of the posting. I picked em up today. I cradled them the entire way home.

I havent done anything to them yet but they seem to be in really nice shape straight from the factory. They wont shave arm hair but lack a lot of the swirl marks ive seen on other new chisels. I cannot wait to get em all tunes up. Giddy like a school girl.


----------



## Bertha

Ba$stard. That is all.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow!!!!


----------



## chrisstef

Yup true story boys. A witherby firmer chisel for $5 and those beauties all in a week and a half. Good clean livin i tell ya.

Smit - how do you like em? Put em through the paces yet?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh yeah. Did the review and been using them ever since. So nice…


----------



## chrisstef

Im itchin to hit the shop. Baby boys been soakin it all up. I may have to lock down a late night shop session this weekend while the little guy sleeps. A fresh new rack is in order. Im thinkin its time to pop my handcut dovetail cherry.


----------



## shampeon

Did someone say mallet?









I just kept laminating scrap layers of birch and maple around a piece of black walnut until it was thick enough, then turned it. The long handle balances nicely, too.

Project page: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/71103

I scored a NOS 6 piece set of Millers Falls chisels off eBay the other day. I'll post some pics when I get them in.


----------



## chrisstef

I can look at shop made mallets all day. Thats a nice one shamp. Vintage mf chisels … Stef likey.


----------



## ShaneA

Nice mallet, I am digging how the grain looks like a bull's eye. : )

I am going to have to find some room and some money for a lathe and accessories. Man woodworking is expensive…oh, and I guess I will have to learn how to turn too?


----------



## lysdexic

It looks like a clever cat face. See the ears, the squinty eyes. The nose is obvious but the whiskers are slight. A faint, sly smile.


----------



## mochoa

Nice Mallet Shampeon, I need to make me one. I think I have some Hard Maple I can use.

I bought an old 36" Craftsman Lathe for about $100, it works pretty good I guess, I havent used it enough though. It is a lot of fun.


----------



## thedude50

yes I do like the chisels and the pouch is cool I am shocked you got them so cheep they would have sold here for the original price in a couple of hours or less. just get the backs flat and hone the front also they are covered with a lacquer paint on the steel which I only took off on the back and on the bevel helps keep the rust down to a minimum .


----------



## chrisstef

Trust me Dude i was as surprised as you are when they kept showing up on the craiger. I did notice some sort of covering on the steel. Hopefully i get to flattening and honing soon. Fresh out of the box they seem like theyre in really good shape.

Whats everyones take on dovetail markers? How do you guys lay out your dovetails? Its about time for this guy to lose his dovetail virginity. Tutorials welcome.


----------



## carguy460

Awesome chisels, chrisstef. I really like that leather roll too.

Shampeon - sweet mallet! And I see that smiling cat too…

I need to make a mallet, but I'm a little confused about what exactly I need…Do I start out with a "square" head, heavier mallet, or should I start with a smaller, turned mallet like Shampeon posted? Do I need one of each? Currently all of my pounding action is supplied by a regular old hammer - I know, I shouldn't use a steel hammer on my chisels, but I'm super careful…This is all more reason for me to have a mallet! But which one?


----------



## Mosquito

Jason, currently I use a hammer like this for chisels, but am interested in what others have to say about the mallet too, as I've been wanting to make one as well (I really hope the answer isn't a turned one, since I don't have a lathe! lol)
http://img2.etsystatic.com/000/0/5825562/il_fullxfull.254403654.jpg
-

Chris, I got some pretty good suggestions and helpful comments when I posted a blog while first practicing dovetails…

Right now I use a Veritas dovetail saddle marker, but that was because I was already ordering something else, and needed a little more for free shipping. Otherwise, I just used a sliding bevel, and a small machinists square. And marking gauge for the baseline. I started with a coping saw for cutting out waste after the dovetail saw, but switched to a jewelers saw with fine jewelers saw blades (that fit the kerf of the dt saw) but have switched to using spiral scroll saw blades instead. They cut faster. There's a lot of ways to do it, and a lot of great videos online.


----------



## chrisstef

Sounds like ive got all the right gear to get them going ill just need some time to practice. Ill scope out your blog Mos.


----------



## Mosquito

You can skip looking at the first set or two of dovetails… they're really bad lol But on the other hand, you can't do much worse! It's mostly the comments from others that are helpful.


----------



## carguy460

Lol Mos…I'm with you on the turned mallet…I don't have a lathe either, though I think a homebrewed bungee lathe might not be too hard to rig up.


----------



## chrisstef

We'll see Mos. nice chisels dont mean that they wont butcher wood in the right hands.


----------



## waho6o9

Maybe make your own dovetail markers? It's fun
and you can slope it the way you want.

Great mallet Shampeon! Seems like I have a hankering to
make a mallet.


----------



## chrisstef

I was thinkin about that wahoo. I bet my father in law could have some milled at work for me too. I mean who doesnt need some dovetail markers made out of aircraft aluminum.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"Do I start out with a "square" head, heavier mallet, or should I start with a smaller, turned mallet like Shampeon posted? Do I need one of each?"

- When hitting on bevel edged socket chisels, I use a square head mallet because I didn't want to hit the all-wood handles of new tools with steel (and because I had one to press into service). It works well because of it's mass. Hitting accurately with a square edge wasn't a problem in that I'd been hitting Everlasting chisels with a steel planishing hammer up to that point.

- I have a set of 'beginners' carving chisels and they are almost dainty compared to their benchtop cousins. For those, I turned a mallet that was lighter. And I don't know why, but most carvers I've seen pictured are using turned carver's mallets. 

FWIW.


----------



## thedude50

I watched a video some where on square or turned mallets and the turned one was the preferred mallet. I have several of both by far my favorite is my LV mallet. I dont know how to spell LV so here is the butchered version Lignum Vitae this wood is the most dense stuff I have ever seen. It is very spendy and is prone to cracking over time I have 2 mallets from LV and they are my go to mallets for all things woodworking. I love the look of the mallet and the heavy hard hitting mallet that yo0u get from turned LV.


----------



## thedude50

Christef I recommend if your serious to pick up dovetailing you buy Rob Cosmans three dvds on Dovetails they are great. I think his method was better than Grandpas method so I use some of both when I saw dovetails. I also recommend you attend one of his mastery course's in that 2-3 day class you will be able to cut good dovetails right after your done with the class and it is awesome to spend time with a master live in person.


----------



## chrisstef

As much as id love to hit some classes at the local WC spare time is slim with a newborn but the dvd's sound like a legit option. Ill take a look into those duderino.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Also check out Paul Sellers videos. he does and awesome job hand cutting dovetails. does all 4 sides of a drawer in under 10 minutes.


----------



## Bertha

Did someone say "butcher"?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You did… New toys in the mail, or ??


----------



## Mosquito

Al, there was a 1 3/4" Butcher chisel, no handle, the other day, I think. I can't remember the exact size, but it was larger than 1" I think… Almost sent you a link, but didn't want to bug you


----------



## mochoa

Sellers has a good video on making a DT marker with hand tools that looks pretty neat.

I really want to make a turned mallet, does anyone have "plans" for one? I seem to remember one of the magazines having measured drawings for a proper one.


----------



## mochoa

Oh and I've tried the 10min DTs like sellers does, I recommend everyone try it, youl be surprised how. Good they come out for not doing any marking, I'll. Find a pic of mine and post it.


----------



## Mosquito

I've tried it Mauricio… My first one wasn't so bad, but the second one was not so good lol I do like the method. I'd probably recommend trying a few by marking them first, though. I think it would help to get the angles more consistent once you don't mark them.


----------



## mochoa

This is my best side:









And this is my worst side:









Looks better than nails!

I need to try a couple more but I'm happy with the angels and the squareness of the cuts. I set the angel by putting the board on an angle in the vise and just eyeballing the squareness to the face.

Also things look a lot better with glue and a little saw dust. Its currently being used by my son for rocks and sea shells.


----------



## Operaman

Ok, I'll throw my favs in. I have 3 full sets: Lie-Nielsen, Ashley Isles, and an antique set of James Swann. For dovetails I love my Lie-Nielsen chisels for several reasons, but the major one being that socket chisels are more efficient at transferring energy from the strike point to the cutting edge so I get more control, less strike force, easier through the cut which in turn gives (all things equal) dead nuts accuracy. The Isles chisles are tang and I save them for when I have to whack the hell out of something like cleaning up mortises in white oak. The Swann chisels I love because of the history, the steel is phenomenal, and I use them for all purpose work.


----------



## thedude50

not bad Mauricio I just prefer to mark my dovetails and I prefer Robs method to Paul's I just think that robs look better and are something that you cant do with a router. BTW if you send me a block of some good mallet wood Ill be happy to turn you a good mallet.


----------



## ShaneA

I do love me some Swan's too. Only problem I have is, they are hard to come by. Dont come up too often on ebay and when they do…kind of spendy. Especially for the sizes I don't have yet : ( I have no idea when they changed the logos, or of the history, but I like the logo with the swan in the water and the James Swan Co written around it. Although I do have one with just the deeper etched swan.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks Dude these are in now way the best DT's i've cut, they are just the fastest. Sellers doesnt recommend these for fine work, just for quick boxes.

I think I've seen short clips of Robs methods and they are pretty impressive, fast and very nice. I might have to check out one of this DT videos.

Thanks for the offer but that would no fun! I'll give it a go and see how it goes.


----------



## thedude50

Tinker I would love to see the swans I never seem to win them but I have not stooped trying


----------



## chrisstef

I only got time to hone one of the new 750's last night before i was summoned upstairs by a screaming baby but damn, i gotta say they're pretty good fresh out of the box. 5 minutes on the worksharp starting at 1000 grit had the backs flat and the rust inhibitor off. Hit it off with some 1500 then 2000, a few passes on the strop and i was shaving arm hair with no tug or pull (i know Al, youre dissappointed). That was the 1 1/2" chisel. I hope the next 7 go as smooth as the first.

I set all the handles as well with a good rap from the man hammer and gave it a test on some end grain cypress i had lying around. Stef likes it. Stef likes it a lot.


----------



## Tedstor

I see we've hit a mallet discussion on this thread. I prefer a round mallet for use with chisels. I have a few, but my favorite is a maple version that my mother gave me. She's an ex-antique collector. When she owned this tool, it was a potato masher. As soon as I took possesion, it became a mallet. LOL. 
FYI- these are in virtually every antique store East of the Mississippi River, and can be had for under $5.

Pictured beside a 1.75" Buck Bros.


----------



## chrisstef

Nice beater there Tedstor. Bring on the mallets.


----------



## bandit571

Couple of my "Beaters"..


----------



## chrisstef

Far from a show stopper but QS Red Oak head and walnut handle. My first attempt. It likes whackin stuff.


----------



## thedude50

tedster I once had a mallet that looked really cool like that but the damn thing had no mass it wore me out mine was made of soft maple I have since moved on to really hard wood mallets


----------



## lysdexic

Well, if we are now talking chisel mallets: this was my very first project posted here on LJ's. Next is a turned mallet (I dont own a lathe) the a bought at the Woodwright's School tool store. I prefer the lignum turned mallet for chisel work.


----------



## Bertha

We could almost need a mallet thread. I'm a mallet freak. 
.
Ted, that turned mallet is a show stopper. Gorgeous. 
.
Bandit, yours has the patina that really speaks to me.
.
Stef, yours is almost identical to mine. Same head shape. My handle is a bit more similar to Lysdexic's, though. My working end is a bit more squarish like his head-end, with a bigger swell in the center. It's hard to compliment Lysdexic when using "head" and "swell" etc. But I'm serious in this instance.
.
Lysdexic, your first mallet is among the finest I've seen on this site. I was most impressed b/c I remember how insanely precise your construction entailed. You were almost apologetic at the time. I just assumed you'd loosen up on your bench build. I was clearly wrong about that one, lol. I just wish the pic wasn't next to that ridiculous butt plug of a plane; otherwise, it'd be my computer background
.
Those gigantic beaters actually look like they're getting the most use (?). Is that a bench-building phenomenon? I've got a turned walnut mallet that I won't hit anything with. Not apologizing to anyone about it either


----------



## RGtools

Greetings from seattle! I picked up a 3/8 mortise chisel by marples…and pulled the trigger on the LN set of five.

Two weeks backlog is going to be a long wait.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Seattle, huh?

Congrats on the purchases Ryan.


----------



## Bagtown

Well, if we're gonna show off our fancy chisel whackers. . . .

Here's mine.
The little Stanley hammer was my mothers, that's for the fine, really sharp chisel work.


----------



## lysdexic

Bagtown, love that big mallet!

Ryan, great to hear from you. Congrats on the LN set. That is the one that I chose but mine took like 3 months to come in. That was also the time frame that I was waiting on the BadAxe saw. I kept wondering what the **** was going on. I guess we were in a world wide shortage of high end woodworking tools. Wierd.

One thing that pleasantly surprised me was the color of the hornbeam handles. They are really light in the pics on the website. However, mine are much darker. Brown even. Probably the heart wood. Love em.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Scott you have the LN mortise or bevel edge set?


----------



## chrisstef

Bagtown - thats a dinosaur murdering weapon im pretty sure. I dig it. Definately need a mallet thread.


----------



## lysdexic

Tony, no sir, I just have the 5 bevel edge set that Ryan ordered. I only own one mortise chisel and it is not really serviceable.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Ah ok. Thanks Scott, i was not sure which set Ryan was indicating he had purchased and if you had the mortise set i was eager to hear your assessment of them.


----------



## Operaman

@ AnthonyReed I have both sets of chisels. The bevel edge are in A2 and the mortise chisels in 01. They are phenomenal chisels; Tom did a great job in lightness of chisel, great metal, and proper balance.


----------



## Bertha

RG, I spend a good bit of time in Seattle at conferences and the like. I like that big market only for the fish tossing and that giant pig sculpture out front. There's a little Irish pub there that has genuine food. I quit drinking and there was a vintage Guinness cask pump three feet from me. My fiance' kept asking if I was listening to what she was saying
.
Stock up on Seattle's best coffee. I quit coffee about 6 months ago but that was always in my top three. I really need to stop quitting $hit.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Thank you Tinker.


----------



## nwbusa

Pike's Place market… I know it well. Almost had my head taken off by an errant fish throw, back in the day. I would have died a legend.


----------



## Bertha

nwbusa, that's the one! That thing goes on forever. That view from that one little corner is incredible. Seattle is a walking man's town. I really like that, so walker friendly. You remember that little Irish pub that's popular? It feels like you're stepping down from an alley into it? Bunch of little stores crammed together. I'm I confusing this with Savanna, GA? My geography is 8th grade level; my memory 6th grade.


----------



## nwbusa

I think it's called Kells… haven't been there in a few years, but they draw a tasty draft as I recall. Now I'm up north of the border, where any beer with less that 8% alcohol content is considered fit only for the elderly or infirm. 

Anyway, sorry to sidetrack the thread. I'm going to go pour myself a beer.


----------



## Bertha

^you can never hijack a thread with beer talk. When Gore invented the internet, he put that clause in


----------



## OnlyJustME

Al its good you quit beer and coffee. when the apocalypse comes those will be among the first things to get used up. You won't be jonesin for it when your aim has to be spot on for the zombie attack.


----------



## carguy460

In response to my mallet question, may I present the Mallets of your dreams thread…


----------



## Bertha

Matt, it'll be gas and ammo. We'll have long forgotten about beer


----------



## Bertha

Jason, you are a God.


----------



## chrisstef

wtf .. i leave for a day and Al's quit coffee and beer? Im quittin this thread in protest. And im takin my freshly sharpened 750's with me.

Carguy … ill be right over.


----------



## Bertha

Stef, if you had known me in my heyday, you'd understand the beer thing I got naked in an airport terminal once. Let's just leave it at that. The coffee was just wrecking my innards. Now I just take a toot of meth in the morning.


----------



## chrisstef

Now theres a picture id rather not see. "See i told you guys i wasnt smuggling any drugs".

Stanley's are taking a nice edge. 5 of 8 sharpened in a week. Not breakin any land speed records around here.


----------



## lysdexic

I knew you then and I understand - completely. I am glad you are alive (to enjoy the meth of course).


----------



## ShaneA

Sorry I am bad a posting links from the phone, but newly listed on ebay 5-750s and 1 everlast for $75 buy it now. Prob wont last long…fyi.


----------



## Mosquito

Heck of a deal, looks like it's gone though, I couldn't find it


----------



## Bertha

Long gone on the 750s. Thanks, Lysdexic; it's one of life's miracles that I lived this long. Now, it's all about keeping my lab from exploding. 
.
On the 750s, I might know a guy. Will inform.


----------



## ShaneA

I should have just bought them, there were (2) 1/4s, (2) 1s, a 1/2 and an everlast 1 1/4. I didnt leap on it because the 3 vintage stanley sizes I have are 1/4, 1/2, and 1. I already have duplicte tool issues as it is. But in hindsight at $13ish a piece how could I afford not to buy them, right?


----------



## Marlow

The sweetheart in the middle on the top row: a family heirloom and the nicest chisel I've ever used.


----------



## chrisstef

And one hell of a nice home too Marlow.


----------



## lysdexic

Marlow, you are the person that I need to talk to. I would like to know how you computed, marked out and executed those taperd holes. Are they actually holes/ cylinders or just tapered grooves.

I want to make a till for my chisels and (blame my OCD) I want the holes to match the taper of the chisel socket.

Thanks in advance.

Your chisel till/ cabinet is a thing beauty. Perfect.


----------



## Bertha

Marlow is my new hero. That SW is the precise type that I prefer. Short fat handle. Total control. It's lovely. 
I've got OCD like Lysdexic and I immediately spotted the socket fit. Look again, y'all; that took some serious consideration as they graduate. Totally, totally impressive. Plus, the interrupted drawer pull. I'm off to check out your projects, Marlow


----------



## chrisstef

Ive attempted at minimum 4 racks for my chisels and failed miseraably at every attempt. Like scott and al noted thee tapered hole technique needs to be part of my life.


----------



## Bertha

It's genius. I'm wondering if a dovetail bit and a stop/jig might get you close; then use carving tools, etc. I'm waiting for Marlow to give it up
.
A major advantage is that you don't have to allow much clearance for rows of chisels. In my till, I lost a ton of usable space b/c I have to pull the entire length of the chisel out. Major disadvantage.


----------



## Mosquito

*I'm waiting for Marlow to give it up*

...

Nevermind.


----------



## Bagtown

Take it to the scrollsaw, angle the table, and cut the holes.
Could us the bandsaw, or if you're really careful and patient, you could use a coping saw.


----------



## chrisstef

Could it be a dovetail bit with a hole drilled through after the cut?


----------



## Marlow

Thanks for everyone's kind words: I will post details on the chisel racks when I get a chance: its not really that hard.


----------



## lysdexic

I have looked at tapered drill bits. They are spendy. I have never checked the taper angle against the taper of the chisel however.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Beautiful cabinet Marlow.


----------



## Bertha

*I have never checked the taper angle against the taper of the chisel however.*
.
Your OCD has surpassed mine, my good friend.
.
Well what are you waiting for? I know you have that laser Festool protractor.


----------



## derekcohen

Oh dear Bertha, if you think you have seen my planes and believe that is an obsession, then you are unaware that my passion actually lies with chisels 

*Blue Spruce* - mini parers, also known as dovetail chisels. The blades are thin, the steel (although A2 and requiring a 30 degree bevel), they take and hold an excellent edge. The handles are beautifully shaped and altogether these chisels are very balanced. They are very useful when doing fine, delicate work. They are all about control, not power. Sizes 1/8" to 3/4". There is no point in going big with these chisels. I mainly use the 1/8, 3/6" and 1/4" for small dovetails. Here are a few (about half the collection) ..










*Kiyohesi *slicks in sizes 1/4" to 1 1/2". There is no point in getting smaller than 1/4". In fact I rarely use this size here. These chisels are about power. The blades are quite thin for this type of chisel, but still much thicker than vintage Western paring chisels. Nevertheless they are very balanced and provide a great deal of feedback - which is what this type of chisel is all about. These blades are simply amazing for taking an edge. You will need to look at another maker, however, unless you are prepared to wait some years (I waited three).










The new *Veritas* bench chisels (below are the O1 versions). They have nice long handles (for bench chisels), and are capable of both delicate and power work. True Jack of All Trades. I have the PM-V11 as well - custom versions from LV …. well it pays to have been involved with the pre-production design and testing of these chisels (spanned about 18 months). The PM-V11 steel is amazing. Takes an edge that would make Gillette jealous! 










About a decade ago David Charlesworth raved about his *Koyamaich*i dovetail chisels. I searched the web for these and they were just not to be found. A few years later I came across a few on eBay (UK). Then a couple of years ago an Aussie friend became the agent in Japan and had Mr Koyama grind a few custom ones for me (minimal lands). These are the chisels I use if I am working very hard Jarrah and need to use a genno. The sizes go from 1/8 to 3/16 and 1/4, then 1/2, 3/4 and 1".










Lastly (for now), my customised set of *Stanley #750s*. I ground the shoulders of all these chisels to zero lands, and re-handled them in She-Oak. 1/8" (ground from a 1/4") through to 1" ...










Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## Bertha

Be right back after crying.
.
What is it about chisels, Derek? I've got the sickness, too.
.
This thread was just destroyed with awesomeness. I'm scared to come back.


----------



## chrisstef

Derek.









Most amazing ownership of bad ass chisels ive ever seen.


----------



## OnlyJustME

I've just been smacked with awesomeness and beg for more. 
Simply incredible looking chisels/works of art.


----------



## ShaneA

Yeah Derek just went over the top, way way over the top. I am feeling a bit inadequate.


----------



## WhoMe

As Darth Vader would say "Impressive" 
So Derek… you have anything that is really awesome??? lol
I do like what you did to your 750's. they sure look nicer than the factory ones.


----------



## Gshepherd

Derek, those are sure sweet…... The 750's finally got some justice….....


----------



## waho6o9

Amazing chisels, stories , and awesomeness Derek.
I concur with the above statements. Outstanding.


----------



## Bertha




----------



## Gshepherd

It is obvious though that Derek is a* Mama's boy*......... He gets all the cool stuff….


----------



## thedude50

Here is a set of TWO Cherries carving chisels I picked up at the show in Oakland a couple of weeks ago


----------



## chrisstef

Are the handles octagonal on the cherries?


----------



## RGtools

Back home…roughly 1000 posts to flip through on my watch list.

I one one mortise chisel from LN, a solid wacking machine, but for an extra 30 bucks you can get an Iles…that is really easy math for me to do once I have used both, (for 30 bucks you get a better handle, d2 tool steel, far better geometry and braggin rights)

Off to eat crab. Will show picks of my haul soon.


----------



## ShaneA

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11400.m1842.l3160/7?euid=ce874135e9ba40208bc168eb72ae7b00&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D280990944049%26ssPageName%3DADME%3AL%3AOC%3AUS%3A3160

Ahh, another soldier coming home. Warms my heart….


----------



## AnthonyReed

Good to have you back Ryan.

and

Congrats Shane.


----------



## lysdexic

Ryan, LN vs lies mortise chisel. Noted.


----------



## lysdexic

Derek, speaking of LN chisels. In your generous mini-review above you don't mention the LN bevel edge / bench chisels (I don't know the difference). Where do they fit in?


----------



## ShaneA

C'mon Scott, you just finished an awesome bench. You got a fine hand tool collection working w/quality mix of new & vintage…let me drop some coin for you : ) Step up to Blue Spruce, Barr, or the new PM 11s. Go big bro, Al is looking at Porsche for heaven's sake, and he is JUST a chiropractor. Step up man!

I kid of course.


----------



## Bertha

OK, as promised.

Anyone game? They are for sale. PM me.
.
Bridge City


----------



## chrisstef

Not enough in the piggy bank for those jewels ^. Devilishly handsome set though.


----------



## AnthonyReed

This has become an opulent thread … just sayin'


----------



## Bertha

Those things are bank, as we all know. This would be an investment piece, obviously.


----------



## AnthonyReed

I did not mean to detract from how astonishing they are.


----------



## Bertha

OK, maybe not BC; how about LN
.


----------



## donwilwol

ok, I said the next chisel I bought would be a set, but I couldn't pass up this $3 Union.



















I almost didn't post it after Al's LN post, but what the heck.


----------



## Bertha

It's gorgeous, Don. Doesn't even need a new handle. I'm having a hard time not looking at those BCs.


----------



## Bertha

Don's chisel made me think. Has anyone ever topped a chisel with shotgun brass (primer removed, lol). That'd be pretty cool.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Al, those are too purdy to use. i cant afford too purdy to use.

Don't worry Don it's not a chisel. It's a wood chip removal device and no one can pass that up for $3.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Leave the primer in for those really hard exotic woods.


----------



## Mosquito

Or… along those lines Al, a powder actuated chisel…

Edit: along the lines of what Matt said (didn't see the second post)


----------



## Dennisgrosen

I don´t thinl so Bertha 
but Mads made a very fine little brass hammer for adjusting woodenplanes 
out of 20 mm Madsens catridge´s .. 

Dennis


----------



## Bertha

^that's very cool, Dennis; I'll have to look for it. I ordered a foot of 3/4 brass stock to make a few hammers.


----------



## Bagtown

Al,

All this talk of brass makes me want to own up.
I don't just use that dinosaur mallet and moms old baby Stanley claw hammer
I didn't post it because it's not really a mallet, and I'm sure it's not in anyone's dreams..
I also have this piece of one inch hex brass about five inches long. It lives in the tray on my bench. There's no handle, I just hold it in my fist and hit away on the end.
It's about 20 years old, left over from my days as a CNC machinist.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

lets see what you come up with AL 

my long gone uncle that I enheritge a few tools from had a hammer that 
he brought up from a sunken warwessel just after WW II where the head was made of lead
wish I had that one now …. no sparkles from it and gave a dead blow when it hit something

Dennis


----------



## Bertha

Bagtown, gorgeous! I'm probably going to turn my stock on a wood lathe with some throw-away tools. Am I going to die? I know nothing of metalwork.


----------



## Bagtown

Ooops, posted that piece of brass in the wrong thread. It belongs over in the mallet thread.
Sorry all.


----------



## Bertha

They're all the same thread, Bagtown.


----------



## Bagtown

You won't die unless you're playing with beryllium copper or something like that.
If I was playing with brass on a wood lathe I wouldn't even bother with any of my regular wood turning tools. Brass can hook a tool in a metal lathe if you aren't careful. You'd probably end up with a lot of chatter and a big mess.
I would stick to files. You should be able to come up with some thing pretty decent that way.


----------



## SalvageCraft

I want to find the old school Bahco-Ergo chisels that AskWoodMan uses. Does anyone have a lead on where to find these? IM me if ye does!

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CEYQtwIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DiC8HAj9sz4M&ei=1ktzULLXI8-80QGFw4DgAw&usg=AFQjCNHNS5y88gA7Uf5w5vH5g74tTKGGIQ&sig2=aJ0hY6JjXngvRoT0Vxx8Fg&cad=rja


----------



## Bertha

Great advice, Bagtown. I considered just using sandpaper to shape it.


----------



## Bagtown

Now I'm considering chucking that piece of brass and having a go.


----------



## mochoa

A solid brass carving mallet would be gangsta'! Go for it Bagtown!


----------



## Dennisgrosen

SalvageCraft :
why wuold you go for them unless you want some good jobsite chisels 
they ain´t bench chisels unless you grind the beveled sides down to zero

Dennis


----------



## shampeon

As promised, here's my practically new set of Millers Falls chisels. Not sure if they should share the stage with the Blue Spruce and custom Japanese jobs posted here, but I kind of love Millers Falls stuff, so….


----------



## ShaneA

The MFs are looking minty fresh. Are those magnets in the bottom of the chisel rack?


----------



## shampeon

ShaneA: yup. Just some cheapie hardware store ceramic magnets glued into some doug fir in line with the holes. Keeps the chisels from bouncing around.


----------



## RGtools

Al, I pull the trigger on back-ordered LN's and you put some up for sell…what the hell man?!


----------



## WhoMe

Al, those LN's and the Stanley 750's look a lot like. Barring the price, anyone know what the differences are? 
Just nosy..


----------



## Mosquito

Well, the LN chisels are designed off of the 750s so apart from the steel or wood used, there's probably little difference beyond that, in terms of design…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I believe the lands are more refined on the LNs vs. the Stanleys. Uniform to a mil or [less] from front to back of each chisel, across all chisels, if I remember reading one of the competing reviews out there.

[Edit: less vs. so]


----------



## Bertha

Vintage 750's man. There are 1000 things better about them, but I'm not sharing the details
.
Everyone's in the market for a roll of LN's, even me. I just can't stop buying friggin guns. The new XD45 lately. Got so say….meh. High capacity, sure; but the G21 has that anyway and won't hang up on your pants with all those nooks and crannys. Everything's getting so angular and tactical looking. 1911, man. And other doomsdayer stuff like backup water supplies, etc. 
.
I can bring guns into any thread. I'm going to cap my next chisel with a shotgun shell. I think that could really catch on.


----------



## RGtools

My most recent buy. Not a bad chisel for $16, I needed something for the frame and panel lid in my toolchest.


----------



## carguy460

Al - get that XD45…then I can make you a properly fitted holster. I love my XD, everything about it except that its chambered in 45 GAP…not the easiest ammo to find…

RG - did you buy that chisel new for $16? I need a mortise chisel, and 16 is right in my price range…


----------



## Mosquito

Jason, Narex mortise chisels are that cheap (or cheaper) but would require shipping…


----------



## Brit

Ask yourself how much you'd pay for this 1 3/8" PARING CHISEL BY JAMES HOWARTH if you came across it.










It can be yours for £285. Nice but not at that price. )


----------



## Alexandre

That^^ is so worth it compared to the price of my japenese chisel…


----------



## Alexandre

Although with the exchange rate….. Nevermind..
EDIT: 
Actually, with the exchange rate, it ends up to $367…..
so,







the paring chisel will be worth it


----------



## joewilliams

Here's what I picked up today at a pawn shop for $10.00










top=L&IJ White 2" wide x 12" long blade
middle=L&IJ White 1.5" wide x 12" long blade
bottom=Fuller Tool Co. 1" wide x 7" long blade


----------



## RGtools

I got the chisel at Hardwick and Sons (Seattle) for 15.95 plus tax (because like a loser I forgot to flash my Oregon ID…I hope Washington fixes a pothole with my extra .38). A nice little store and I was really impressed with how little prep time the tool required.

Its a Sheffield Marples in case anyone wants to know. My only complaint thus far is the red stain comes of on surfaces if too much pressure is applied. Several times I stopped my work because I though I was bleeding.

The Narex might be a good bet James.


----------



## RGtools

Has anyone here tried mortising with a dead-blow? I have been lately and I am curious as to other peoples thoughts. It drives like a madman…but I feel like I lose sensitivity to the point that I am messing up more than I should. I reserve judgment until I do a few more mortises.


----------



## Bagtown

RGtools - I know what you mean. You don't feel or hear that solid clunk that tells you to move the chisel over.


----------



## Bertha

RG, if it's a through-mortise with a backer board, just dead blow away! I use a deadblow any chance I get, only because I own a pair of testicles, and they tell me to.


----------



## RGtools

Just split out the end of one of my mortises…not ready to calm down yet. SON of a









Code:


#$

%^@!


----------



## Bagtown

RG, I did that last week in some oak. I had to leave the shop for a while before I hurt myself.


----------



## RGtools

I'll be taking a picture and asking for help on this one…not quite sure how to proceed. I really don't feel like scrapping the piece based on the color and grain match that I have. It is fixable like most things but I am still just irritated at myself.

I'll explain more when I have a picture.


----------



## Bertha

Glue, clamp, and reassess. Or punch a stranger at the grocery. Your call.


----------



## donwilwol

Al, do you need to re-take that anger management class again?


----------



## OnlyJustME

I'd put up a heavy bag so i don't have to use a stranger at the grocery. All the anger management i need. Beat that bag til your blue in the face, gets all that tension and frustration and anger out. Better for society.


----------



## Bertha

*Better for society.*
.
True. I still punch strangers in the face. I have a heavybag, too, for practice
.
Yes, Don, I got a D- and need to repeat to get my ankle bracelet off


----------



## Bertha

I'm building a little camp up in the woods. Treehouse on the ground, if you will. Huffing tools up there is worse than the heavy bag. I'm getting old.


----------



## OnlyJustME

that's not a sled dog you have? hook that dog up to a wagon and have it huff them tools. lol


----------



## AnthonyReed

Sorry to hear that Ryan. :-/

"Or punch a stranger at the grocery. Your call." <== Healthy coping skills; i'm not seeing a problem.


----------



## lysdexic

*True. I still punch strangers in the face*

All I got to say is "Mayfight"

THis is an inside joke for Al. For others it is a bar in New Orleans where I saw Al do just that. The name of the bar is the Mayfair but after that night it was was affectionately rename the "Mayfight."


----------



## thedude50

I forgot who asked but yes the 2 cherry's are octagonal handles I just got some more old tools from my English connection I have him on the look out for some good English pig stickers. I I just got a Issac grieves gouge and an I sorby gouge in the mail with a couple of hammers a no 40 Stanley english made finishing hammer and a nice large cross peen hammer I love the cross peen hammers I have close to the full set now all imported by me from England through my connection Ill try to take some photos tomorrow


----------



## chrisstef

Dude what do you know about that greaves line. I picked up a 3/4" gouge at a flea market marked WM Greaves & Son, Sheaf Works. I know its English made and Brit sent me a little bit of info he had dug up. Always wanting to learn more.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

Al there is nothing better than use the mayer as a punchbag

isn´t thats why they are elected ….. 

Dennis


----------



## Bertha

^Scott, I had totally forgotten about that.
.
Wasn't some dude just begging for it or something? Or did I get smoked; can't remember. 
.
My most vivid memory was at "Fred's" in Baton Rouge. Up against a 100 pound wet Golden Gloves leftie (looked harmless enough at the time). Jellied my legs in front of about 100 people. Laughing people. It was phenomenal. He was in right stance and dominant left hooked me on the ramus. Anus'd. I grabbed his shirt and brought him down with me just to keep him off me. Totally owned. Good for the soul.
.
I also beat KroMag in the head with a stapler once during a casual drunken wrestle. I was struggling to toss my piece aside. He still won. 
.
I haven't thought of the Mayfair in 100 years. Thanks for the memories


----------



## RGtools

No punching people for me though shooting complete strangers on the internet is fun (god bless video games for stress relief).

After calming down and taking a look at the problem I am once again at harmony with lignum. Take a look for yourself.



















The problem in the above two pictures was caused by not fully removing waste from the mortise before paring the side walls (I should have just bashed the thing out like I normally do, but I was hoping to save some time with power…this never seems to work for me). A bit more relish on the end of the board might also have been wise.










Here is the repair. The clamp is key since it keeps the split from getting worse as the repair is being done.


----------



## Brit

No wonder you blew through if you were playing cards while you were doing it Ryan. ) You need to concentrate brother. I think it was Superdave who used a bit of cellotape to push the glue into a thin crack before clamping. Good tip Dave.


----------



## donwilwol

I change jobs every couple of years, so I've got boxes of old business cards I keep in the shop for this. They make great glue spreaders of all types actually.


----------



## Brit

Actually, I know hindsight is a wonderful thing Ryan, but putting a clamp on before you started chiselling a mortise that close to the end would probably have prevented that from happening. We've all been there.


----------



## donwilwol

Air compressor to push the glue down help sometimes too(use the air not the compressor itself)


----------



## carguy460

So many beautiful chisels, so many skilled people using those chisels…

I made a breakthrough tonight, though most of yall may not be as excited as I am…

Thanks to what I've learned from you guys about chisels and sharpening, I actually made one of my chisels cut well, not just crush the wood fibers and splinter and tear out:










Yes, those shavings on the bench are from that small Stanley Handyman that was my grandfathers - usually I end up with splinters after using a chisel…I was trying to clean up some corners that I couldn't cut well with my coping saw…a few swipes on my sandpaper arsenal was all it took to hone the chisel, and for once I made clean paring cuts in end grain pine…holy crap, batman!

Ok, I just had to share that with someone…I know its not much but its huge for me…finally getting my ducks in a row…










Now, back to you guys teaching me more…carry on!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Huzzah, Jason!


----------



## ShaneA

Nice Jason, I know that is a great feeling, plus the two duck picture is pretty awesome.


----------



## Bagtown

Good sharpening is a gateway drug for woodworkers.


----------



## carguy460

Thanks guys…yes, that feeling of my chisel slicing through that crappy pine was sweet…something about that sound really gets to me!

This is my duck train…2 more little guys still to cut, a few holes to drill, some yellow paint and we'll be in business! Only 8 months to go till this project can meet its owner…


----------



## OnlyJustME

Don't short shank yourself Jason. Being able to get your chisels sharp and pare like that is a big accomplishment. It's those type of accomplishments that keep a woodworker going. Some people are never working with a sharp chisel.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Speaking of sharp chisels i can't wait to have something to try my new set out on. Thanks to chrisstef's help i got a really good deal on these sweet hearts. Just need a bit of tuning fun.


----------



## thedude50

Sorry I dont know a lot but i have a few of his carving chisels and they are prime time good I would like to learn more can you pm me what Andy sent you


----------



## thedude50

good going carguy it is always cool when you make milestones in the craft when your a vet those come a lot less I miss having successful firsts. I learned to sharpen on oil stones they really suck compared to a good set of water stones but my grand father would not let me use a tool unless I could sharpen it right . I know I am better now than any time before because i push my self hard to be the best i can I am always learning new was and trying new tools to do a better job at all aspects of tool set up and at woodworking as a whole. if you take on what i do you will enjoy many successes.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

ceep on carguy 
testcuting endgrain on pine can only be done with a sharp chisel
if its aint sharp enoff it will crush /tearout the fibers … its easy to see the different

Dennis


----------



## chrisstef

Jason - What a good feeling it is when you get to where you want to be. Nice duckies.

JustMe - You gave that chunk of oak some justice it deserved. I think yours came out better than mine did. Cant wait to see what ya come up with to break those chisels in. I spent a couple of early morning hours with mine yesterday and they are super comfortable to me.


----------



## RGtools

The clamp idea occurred to me Andy, of course it came to me after the damage was done. It's good to know others have been there.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Some of us are still living there RGtools. lol


----------



## carguy460

Thanks for the kind words of encouragement, everyone…and thanks for the knowledge sharing! I learned something from you all yet again with RG's blowout and subsequent repair.


----------



## mochoa

Nice Jason, pine will definitely let you know if you are truly sharp, when I figured that out I got that same breakthrough feeling your talking about.

Just me, that pic is calendar worthy!

Ryan, do you use the card to spread glue into the crack? I use candy bar wrappers.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Nice fix Ryan.

Well done Jason, congrats. Paint on them? As i understand it rugrats tend to chew on stuff a lot <shrug>

I like that mallet Matt. Congrats on your new chisels.


----------



## Bertha

Oh my, oh my. The chisels are at work. And I love it. I love those ducks, Jason. We need more animal forms in woodworking. My thoughts. 
.
In my limited experience, sharpening chisels comes down to the backs. Good metal helps, too. I'll mirror the backs for a couple of inches so my grandkids won't have to Of course, I'm both gay and sterile, so I'll have to adopt those grandkids
.
Scott, remember that famous quote about a metro shoulder surgeon, "not gay…but could be?" Remember Norm, Barney, and automatic weapons? Reggae dude next to Barney watching unspeakable things. Barney was probably the most solid thing I'm done in my entire life.


----------



## Bertha

Re games: Superstretch turned me on to Counterstrike Global Something or other. $15 on Steam and no skills required. Just start blasting. M249 to the face kind of blasting.


----------



## carguy460

Tony - I want to paint them…not sure whats safe for the little ones though, but it will need some yellow paint at some point…need to research that a little.

Al - I was going to make sheep, but thought better of it…since you live in WV and all I didn't want you to get too excited. Plus, my kid will be born in Missouri, so he/she won't need any more sheep in their life…

I agree about the flat back being a key…this was the first time I had polished the back REAL well (that comment could be taken out of context and used against me in the future…)


----------



## hhhopks

So, where do you go (or what to use) for supplies for the remake of the handles?

1. Strinking rings at the end.
2. Brass ferrels at the front for the tang chisels.
3. Leather washers.

I have use copper pipe for the ferrels but I am hoping for an upgrade.
I have make my own leather washers, but I am curious if someone sales them.
I am still have trouble with figuring out what to use on the striking rings.


----------



## OnlyJustME

On the strike rings you can use the appropriate sized gas pipe (usually 3/4") same stuff used for pipe clamps. just cut a little piece off the end and you have a ring.

The brass ferrels i use another plumbing fitting usually off of a brass water shut off valve, the type used under a sink. I've done quite a few repairs of these and always have them left over since i don't use the compression part of the fitting. A little file work or a lathe makes them round.



























I haven't done any leather washers yet so don't know about them.

A little quick replacement handle on a 3/8" GreenLee 220 chisel i found in one of my wife's late grandfather's tool boxes.
I have been cleaning up the steel but about 1-1/8 of the cutting tip is badly pitted. It might be a 1/4" chisel by the time it is all gone.


----------



## chrisstef

I really like the stumpy little handle on that chisel Matt. You got em down bro. Get to do any honing on those 750's?


----------



## OnlyJustME

That little stumpy was the little left over piece from the lathe chisel handle. Don't know what kind of wood it is. Was in the scrap bin at WoodCraft sold by the pound. i guess cocobolo or bubinga or something like that.

Didn't play with the 750's yet but i'll get to them soon. Need to find some better sand paper for them.


----------



## chrisstef

You could probably start at 1000 grit, the backs on mine were almost dead flat. Took me very little time to get em to the Mach 3 level. Try Napa or Pep Boys or the local automotive shop for the fine grit stuff.


----------



## Bertha

HHHops, I bought a ton of ferrules and brass stock a while back. Still haven't received the brass stock I ordered recently. I still like the copper pipe for ferrules and leather rings. I'm sure there's something better out there.
.
If you can't find it at McMaster Carr, it probably doesn't exist.


----------



## RGtools

Gloat commencing in 5…4…3…2…














































I'll let you know more when I get a chance to break them in properly. I was too engrossed in the mahogany I was working with (tiny side project while my repair dries) to do much more than take the pictures here.


----------



## ShaneA

Nice score Ryan, I know you will put them to good use. Look forward to hearing more about them.


----------



## lysdexic

Good for you Ryan.

My biggest concern with these chisels is not screwing them up when I go to sharpen them.


----------



## Brit

You can't go wrong with those Ryan. Congrats.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

congrats RG
glad you covered them in the last picture … my face geting back to normal colour now … 

Dennis


----------



## jap

You guys make me jealous, all i have is a 3/4" and 1/4" narex chisel


----------



## chrisstef

jap, welcome to the money pit. Between this thread, hand plane thread, and the saw thread we have all stimulated the economy in our own galootish ways. Its a sickness. It spreads. You sure you want in lol?

RG - sexy spread there. How do you like those flex cut carving knives? Im thinkin about getting into that end of things a little bit more. I just wish i had an artistic bone in my body that could free hand draw something.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Congrats Ryan. You gotta be stoked with those.


----------



## robertb574

"Between this thread, hand plane thread, and the saw thread" - chrisstef

My favorite threads. I check them several times a day.


----------



## jap

oh know, i have a dovetail saw in my cart at leevalley right know and am trying to resist testing out one of thier new chisels.


----------



## thedude50

jap they are saying good things about them on a couple of other threads . I simply dont need another full set of chisels I have all my vintace stuff and 2 full sets of the new stanley 750s which are very fine chisels in my mind and in my hand.


----------



## lysdexic

Ryan, I don't have years worth of experience with hand tools but I did make an observation this past weekend. I hear you guys talk about balance and the feel of GOOD chisels. This sounds a bit touchy feely and I was skeptical especially when Al mentions it.

Yet, this weekend I was banging on my WoodRiver chisels and then would immediately grab a LN for paring. The difference in balance and feel is real. It is not subtle. I am a believer now.


----------



## carguy460

Damn you, Scott…changing up your name like that…at least your picture is the same so I didn't get TOO confused!

You guys are making me think I should investigate some higher quality chisels, but I fear that the quality difference would be lost on me…I've barely learned how to sharpen the ones I have properly! However, the feeling of that first truly sharp cut was sweet…


----------



## waho6o9

http://festoolownersgroup.com/classifieds/lot-of-large-sorby-and-marples-chisels-unused/

Make him an offer. I'm glad to be the messenger of some fine
chisels.


----------



## RGtools

Chrisstef I have had the flex cuts for a while now. They are a very comfortable carving tool. I use them mostly for delicate touches on furniture that I can't get another way. Get the skew and the finishing knife (as you probably already have some sort of roughing tool). The steel is not anything special, but it is sound and the blades come very sharp, which is a nice plus.


----------



## racerglen

Alright, Al's cross dressing was bad enough..now we've got cross ocean face transplants ?
RG N' Andy ?


----------



## DaddyZ

Really Crazy !!!


----------



## chrisstef

Wow - i almost replied to Andy - Rg, thanks for the referral on the felxcuts, i know WC has them on sale right now. I might have to score a set.

And BcottyS … you make a me so confused.


----------



## Bertha

Strong gloat! I've got the same Flexcuts. I've also got some no-name ones that I inherited that I prefer, for the reasons Scott mentions. The feel of a good chisel demands a response and I feel this thread is the response. It's unlike any other tool in my shop when I grab one. Just makes you smile and it only gets better (not boring) with time. Your oldest quality chisels are always your favorite. 
.
Scott, I think you're ready for a lathe. They're cheap and have a small footprint. I'd spring for the stand, though, or you'll kill table space and you'll want it dedicated (not wrestling it into position; you won't use it). Don't worry about turning into a pen guy (no offense meant). There's something to be said for starting and finishing a small project on a single machine. When your chisel handle stops spinning for the first time, a giant grin will erupt. You really only need a roughing gouge, a spindle, and some sandpaper. Save the expensive chuck for later; you'll rarely use it and chisel handles can certainly be made without it. 
.
I mean, look above. That's some phenomenal stuff. I, too, love the short handles, especially on wide paring chisels. They don't even need to have much life left. Butcher ftw.


----------



## Bertha

PS, my favorite paring chisel is a fat Greenlee (which I don't even collect) with a stumpy olivewood handle. Put the whole thing together in an hour or so almost 10 years ago. That's one damn good hour spent.


----------



## thedude50

Specialty paring chisels how many and who's should I get. I checked out fleabay for a real paring chisel and found a host of them for 100 dollars each who is making modern ones and where do i get them? Also are they as good as vintage or should I look for old chisels with out pits and crap on the iron. I have always pared with a sharp bench chisel so i got on urgent needs for this chisel or chisels but I am trying to have a complete tool set for my needs and want to have every tool i could ever need to do what I love which is make things.


----------



## hhhopks

Got these chisels just today.
13 of them for $10.00. 
A few has a slight mushroom but they all have names.
Should be easy to clean up as there are very little rust to them.
Not bad for a short stop at a garage sale.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Nice pick up.


----------



## Bertha

HH, you've got at least two sash chisels in there. You did SOOOOO well. If there's anything in there with a Butcher stamp, you and I will make the deal even sweeter.


----------



## hhhopks

Educate me.
Which one is a sash chisels?
I guess sash as in window sash. Right?


----------



## nwbusa

So I've been using the hell out of my Narex bench chisels lately, chopping out dovetails in white oak. Man, that wood is doing a number on the blade edge. I think I have them sharpened at too low of an angle (factory bevel @ 25 degrees). I am going to regrind them to 30 degrees, and maybe add a 2 degree microbevel to see if that helps the cause.

Or… I could just run down to LV for a new set of PM-V11s (checks to see if wife is out of sight)


----------



## Bertha

Yeah! I love sash chisels; they're often mistaken for mortise chisel and I use them as such for smallish mortises. Dennis knows a lot about them.
.
OK, let's see, you've got 13 chisels there. Some sockets with TONS of life. Could be quite valuable depending upon the mark (look hard). From left to right, #4 might be, #8 definitely is, can't tell on the rest. A couple of those look like Butchers to me. If you see a little arrow with an iron-cross looking thing and you're looking to sell, let me know. 
.
I'd quadruple your money right now, cold, without even seeing them. And that wouldn't be a fair deal. You done well, my friend.


----------



## ShaneA

Oh man…$13 for 10 chisels. Gloat worthy for sure. Figure out the makers and make us all cry.


----------



## Bertha

Lol Shane's math Similar to mine.
.
Photos of marks will make you a hero. 
.
John, I've actually taken chunks out of lesser quality chisels. You owe it to yourself, man. I haven't had much luck increasing the bevel angle, but others might have. I like heavy ba$tards for chopping. Furthermore, I like well-worn ones so I can get closer to the work. The LNs are gorgeous, but too long for me. I'll spend a good bit of money for a fine paring chisel, but an old Fleabay workhorse might be a good choice (and one the better 1/2 is more likely to accept).


----------



## ShaneA

Oops…when the numbers get that big, apparently I get dizzy. Its a deal either way.


----------



## lysdexic

NWBUSA,

Instead of re-grinding why dont you put a 30 degree microbevel and go from there?


----------



## chrisstef

That could be the gloat of the year. I cant wait to hear the lineup.


----------



## ITnerd

What a steal - that would have been a bargain at 5 times the asking price. I think I see a couple Witherby firmer (no side bevel) chisels, a witherby sash mortise, a butcher tanged, and a witherby gouge on each end. Pappi wants… Pappi wants real bad. If you're selling any of the Witherbys, PM a guy.


----------



## thedude50

ok guys dont make me beg answer my question on paring chisels


----------



## ITnerd

Hey Lance, the Blue Spruce set of 4 dovetail paring chisels is under 3 bills if you're looking for new.

Personally, I am going to wait for Lee Valley to come out with thier PMV11 set of paring chisels. All the reviews I have read about it say it is worth the wait, and thats coming from George Wilson, master toolmaker and instrument maker for colonial Williamsburg for 37 years. A quote of his from an SMC post asking about the best chisels:

I seriously doubt that you could find anything better than the PM VII chisels from LV. I am delighted with my VII plane blade. There just isn't any better metal out there. LV is making some of the finest tools ever made,especially with this new tech metal.


----------



## ksSlim

Lee Valley "new" steel holds an edge very well and is no more difficult to sharpen or hone than most other steels.
I tried some along side some old Butchers, some more recent Iles, and some 2 Cherries. 
Imo they are as good or better.


----------



## lysdexic

ksSlim, I guess that could be true. But I understood that the PM-V11 metal was easier to sharpen that A2 and retained the edge longer.

"Imo they are as good or better." - I am unclear as to which one is as good or better.

I'd like to see some LV PM-V11 Mortise chisels myself.


----------



## thedude50

you guys know i am not a fan of veritas tools so buying their chisels is hard for me. One thing I am sure of is I wont ever buy one of those ugly hand planes but i could do a chisel if it met my needs.


----------



## lysdexic

Y U want to be hatin' on my Veritases


----------



## ksSlim

I struggle to get as keen an edge on A2 steel. Harder and more carbon tend to make it more of a challenge.
PM-V11 took less time to hone, after 4 days of alternating different chisels, all I had to do to the V11s was go back to the strop. The V11s came to me "presharpened". Being some what AR, I just had to hone them before the comparision. Edge holding ability is great! I've yet had to resharpen the V11s. 2 Cheeries have been back to the Dia Sharps. Would like to try a comparision with the V11 plane irons.


----------



## nwbusa

ScottyB, that's a good point. I might try that first.


----------



## RGtools

< my favorite. The LNs are petty sweet though. It took me all of 10 minutes to lap all 5 backs and put a keen edge on them.

My chisel roll now has 5 chisels, 3 flexcuts, and one blue spruce marking knife. I am a very happy camper.


----------



## thedude50

I am very happy with my new sweethearts I would have to be really lazy to wish i could sharpen them less as they hold their edge very well.

Scott it is a personal choice I like the traditional looks of the Lie Nielsen tools they just look better to me .


----------



## Bertha

Did someone just diagnose a Butcher in there? PM if for sale.
.
I'm a big Witherby guy, too; got a bunch of them (none for sale; sorry, Nerd
.
*"Imo they are as good or better."*
.
Nothing is better than Butcher steel, IMO. I can't see myself being convinced otherwise unless they sharpen themselves or do my laundry. Witherby. 750's? Why bother with new steel (IMO). The only thing I'll buy from Veritas is their gardening stuff; and maybe that small plough that ScottyB, yo, has. Their gardening catalog is phenomenal, as are their cover photos. 
.
It's like the roundie Bedrock guys (me); you'll never convince them otherwise. 
.
Someone do a side by side, ffs


----------



## Bertha

For nerd:
.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Nice handle. Did you do it?


----------



## AnthonyReed

Such a great picture Al. No firearm /puzzled.


----------



## ITnerd

oooooooooOooo. Me Likey Al. And I'm diggin that handle. Is that walnut or a rosewood? I forgive you for not selling it - I have a 1/2" butcher pigsticker that is the size of a tire iron, and I am going to have it buried with me. I am not telling you where, because I am afraid you will have me exhumed. 

I just had my first hand at a lathe today, blew my Highland Woodworking coupon on some Easy Wood Tools, I also pillaged thier entire file section for the last few 'Made in the USA' Nicholson files.

Came back home and chucked up some pine and then a scrap of Amboyna Burl in the worlds most fecal lathe. 
A buddies wife tried her hand at pen turning, bought a used lathe for 50 bucks, tried one pen, didn't like the mess and in the garage it sat, until my visit. When I first brought it home, the sheetmetal bed would flex so badly you couldn't even chuck something in it. replaced the belt with link-belt, replaced the bed with a 3-year seasoned 2×10 of SYP. Put the Jawhorse in the driveway, dropped in the Lathe, and off I went.

That is Sofa King fun, I only stopped when the sun started to set - I had to make an appearance at the Little Five Points Halloween Parade. Personal favorite outfits? Strippers dressed as… Strippers. Just walked home, and I am half-debating turning on the flood lights and having another go. I am seriously going to spend tomorrow making handles, handles and more handles.

Oh and here's an informal test of PM-V11 steel against some other popular contenders. By all accounts, it is a solid performer. Powdered Metals have always held promise here, the trick was finding an alloy that offered its benefits withouth requiring a moonrock or industrial equipement to sharpen. Still not giving up my Witherbys!


----------



## Dennisgrosen

Bertha 
thanks for leting have alot more knowledge than I actuly have 
but I do like my pigstickers … lol

sashchisels and firmerchisels are often mistakenly thought of to be the same tool 
though sashchisels when is comes to the wider ones is short chisels 
both type is of a more sturdy type than benchchisel and jobsite chisels many gets as the first set of chisels 
so they can take haevy blows from the mallets

today some brands make chisels that isn´t benchchisel or firmerchisels but is in a greyzone between those two
and as other results trying to take the best from two worlds and mix them …. they fall completly thrugh
not realy cable of doing benchwork or exel in framingwork 
I gess its becourse the DIY people is the biggest market there is and they seems to like this type 
of jobsitechisels that can be used to little of everything ….. can opner…. paintstearing-stick

take care
Dennis


----------



## Bertha

See, I told you Dennis knew
.
Nerd, points for both "fecal" and "Sofa King". Yes, I made the handles. The Witherby is Bolivian Rosewood and the stumpy Japanese guy is cocobolo. I'll be watching to see if you turn into a lathe guy. It was a really fun process early on for me. You can make little lamp pulls (use a Xmas ornament kit), duck calls, all kinds of fun projects. Hooooge hit with the family. Mine is pretty much dedicated to chisel handles, though. I have a $300 chuck that I've never used. I just didn't get "bitten" by the turning thing.
.
I'll give you a couple pieces of advice if you'll accept them. Get a simple caliper, cheap is fine. Buy a little bank of drawers, cheap something from the big box. Keep it near your lathe. Label the drawers 120 through 2000 and put strips of sandpaper in them. Have a couple other drawers for scraps of clean cotton (t-shirt that you puked on, etc.). Go through the grits. Dunk a cloth in 1/2 lb shellac in etoh and hit it. Let it dry spinning. Hit is with a clean cloth in wax. Buff with a third cloth. I use tiny 3" x 1/2 inch cotton strips. 
.
Those chisel handles above were made with that method and the finish hasn't changed in years.


----------



## Bertha

And Nerd, I've got the 1/2" Butcher pigsticker. It'll be buried with me, too. Does yours have the leather washer fore the handle? It's just a beautiful ricasso on the Butcher stickers.


----------



## mochoa

Finish noted Al, thanks for that, that handle looks amazing.


----------



## OnlyJustME

We'll see what happens. With my ADD i tend to go full bore for a while then taper off and find a new area of woodworking to do then after a good long while i'll go back to it and burn rubber again. Right now i'm just getting started with the turning thing and i'm sure i'll go through the motions from handles to bowls and all in between. I did the pen thing years ago with a cousin i used to live closer to. Nice thing about turning is i can just grab a piece out of the fire wood pile and turn something out in no time. Still havin fun playin around with different shapes. My dad has a bunch of old chisels that need handles and he'll be dropping them off sometime soon.

Advice accepted.
Good tip on the bank of drawers. I have one in the shop already i can use for that. I was using it for nuts and bolts and such but the drawers are a bit large and i have way to many different pieces of hardware to put in it. Already have a cheap HF caliper set for it and it came in handy too (bought years ago and just now used it). Can the t-shirt be one that mini-me puked on? lol 
Don't understand "1/2 lb shellac in etoh" never used shellac though so is this a certain stage in mixing it? 
Want me to save you some shop space and store that chuck for ya? i would even use it once in a while so it doesn't get all seized up. you know, routine maintenance and all. lol


----------



## bhog

Just checking in -I have a witherby socket skew that makes me coo coo.

Everybody needs to say this 3 times fast;

I am sofa king wee Todd did. That is all.


----------



## AJswoodshop

I got my chisels from HF, they were on sale for $4.99 so I thought I would pick them up. I don't use them that much, but the work great when I need them.


----------



## Bertha

AJ, nothing wrong with that. A chisel's only as good as the man that loves it.
.
Matt, I got some kind of cheap Stack-on with maybe 8 drawers wide by 8 drawers tall. Probably 1 1/2 inch wide by 4 inches deep or so. I just put hooks on it and hung it on the pegboard aside my lathe. It's probably the smartest thing I've done at the lathe. My dust collection will suck the little tidbits of sandpaper out of my hand every once and a while.
.
Matt, lol on the chuck. I had another nice Oneway that was stolen. I actually used that one rarely (for little knick knacks really). When my insurance replaced it, I was over that phase. 
.
Also Matt, yes, I mean cutting the shellac with denatured alcohol. Dude, if you're going to lathe, get some shellac and some alcohol. I use the cheap Bullseye premixed from Lowe's and cut it. I don't believe in the science of it. I just add alcohol until it's the consistency I like. I especially like the amber-tinted. I've fussed with expensive shellac but for handles and such, the cheap stuff works great….
.
...and here's why. If you moisten a little piece of rag and run it down the piece, it just brightens up like the first time finish hits a piece of furniture. That glorious moment, you know. Spinning like it is, it dries in seconds, ready for the wax. I like it really thin (more alcohol) and might buff between coats with some 2000 grit. That Japanese shortie above is two coats of shellac with two coats of BriWax. I rarely do that but the shine persists to this day. I use that chisel pretty often, too. 
.
Have fun, brother.


----------



## Bertha

Hog, my fetish went from Witherby to Butcher through Swan. Butcher's are tang; which makes for some difficulty. This is when a chuck and a Jacob's tailstock helps. I tried doing it with a drillpress but I could never really get it straight. 
.
However, a tang chisel allows you to put a cool ferrule on there. I love them both. 
.









.


----------



## chrisstef

Butcher has the most boss logo ever. Somethin primative and bad ass about it.


----------



## Bertha

It is definitely the strongest stamp around.
.


----------



## bhog

Is that babysteff? What a lil chubrock.My wife said he was the cutest thing.I saw a future beer bonger with that lil gigling face.I caught an elbow for it so we are even.


----------



## Bertha

How much does that chubrock bench?


----------



## chrisstef

Nah cant claim that its babystef but may be a long lost baby pic of don yoda. The wife would have my ass for scribbling on his mug like that. The little guy can bench a 4 oz bottle and has the pull out strength of 6-8 chest hairs.


----------



## chrisstef

Heres the latest babystef …. Doors wide open boys lol.


----------



## ITnerd

Hey Al, thanks for the finishing advice, thats exactly what I needed. I tried a few more practice handles today, most will get used for files, but I'm getting close. I hit the first couple (Southern Yellow Pine & Amboyna burl) with 160 grit, 2 coats BLO and 1 coat rennaisance wax. I tried 2 out of persimmons today, and the smaller one I just hit with the 160.

I came back in, caught up on posts, and hit the second persimmons handle with 7 grades of paper, the last one 2K wet dry. I had to shut down operations to not piss off the neighbors (my backyard is postage stamp, and I turn outside because my dust collection cant handle Lathe output). It is unbeleivable what a difference that made, without even finish on it, its like glass. I've got a 1/2 pound cut of platina shellac & Everclear marinating right now. I'll follow your instructions on this handle tomorrow and post it for your review.

I'm working on my turning storage situation as we speak. I'd like to come up with something that is easy to transport outside and down a few steps, can hold the ginormous Easy Wood Tools, and the measuring tools you mentioned. I picked up a few metal calipers for 50 cents each at a yard sale years ago - I knew they would come in handy.

I've got to practice alot more on the 'waist' part of the handles, not sure what its called, but getting that clean is going to take a bit of practice. No worries though, I got scrap wood and time.


----------



## chrisstef

What size lathe ya workin with chris. Ive been eye ballin the craiger for a small one.


----------



## bhog

Aww 6-8 hairs.I remember that.Awesome isnt it.The cro magnon is strong in him almost a splitting image of my son Jacob when he was that small-kinda cool.

After seeing that butcher stamp I went out and looked in the shop because I know I have seen that mark somewhere.But no go.Found a couple with a tripple clover not sure what that is.I will have to look at the other shop sometime as there are a few drawers with old chisels,patternmakers offsets etc.I keep wanting to go get the lathe out of there so it may be sooner than later.

Nerd- how do you like that platina?Is it noticeably lighter than blonde?

If you guys really want to tweak out on "grits" try finishing up with a piece of deer antler.My dad used to do it(still does) and it will polish it so smooth its enbelievable.He only does is on handles,walking sticks etc.Stuff that will be held.He always told me it was a passed down indian trick-lol but no lol.


----------



## chrisstef

Its negative awesome hog. Kids got some meathooks for hands.

I bumped into some seriously beat up chisels at the flea today and i was thinking how unfortunate it is that taking pictures of random people is considered socially awkward. I mean i know its halloween season but when you belly hanging out over your sweatpants looks like a gourd why cant i take a pic of that. Sharing is caring.


----------



## ITnerd

Chris, that is a handsome fella - enjoy that sleepytime. 

My lathe is a Central Machinery 14×40 from HF. 








I can not honestly recommend it, unless you come across it free like I did. You would absolutely and unequivocally die if you tried to turn a large bowl blank on it (lowest speed is still way to fast for truing a large blank), so the numbers are a bit of a lie.

Here are its Pros:
1. Free to me

Here are its Cons:
1. No Headstock or Tailstock options, what you see is what you get, unless you start jerry-rigging crap onto it. While Im all about that, the thought of getting it wrong at 1-3K RPM is not something I'm willing to do.
2. Adjusting the tool rest or tailstock is time consuming and akward, unless you mount the damn thing at eye level, and then try using that safely. 
3. Adjusting engine speed via the pulleys requires you to essentiall unmount the whole damn engine with 2 screws, lift it up by the lower pulley while messing with the damn belt, then lock it back into place. Which means you wont want to do it much, which means you'll be turning stuff at less than optimal speeds.
4. The sheetmetal base it came with was so unsafe I had to replace it with a hunk of 2×10 (see pic).

That said, it is a Lathe, and for tool handles and totes, its workable. And I have no problem leaving it on the back porch between sessions. When this one breaks (and I pray each day it will), I'll look for a used midi lathe.

and Bhog, I got the platina because i have a couple of Holly projects, and I wanted to leave it as white as possible. It is also slightly more water resistant than the other grades, because of the extra refinement. You'll be fine with the blonde in most cases, and save a few bucks. I think it ran me 47 a pound without taxes - ouch. I keep it in the fridge, despite the complaints from my better half. We often have the 'what if the boys eat it?' discussion, to which I reply 'then the boys owe me 47 bucks'.

I'd be willing to try that deer antler trick, but I need to bag me a deer first. I'll talk to my electrician, dude lives a rock star life - works 3 days, fishes 1 day, hunts 1 day. I want to be that guy, minus the 3 days work.


----------



## thedude50

in had that lathe 15 years ago it made me one project i liked turning so I went and got the jet i still have i like turning but it is not as fun as playing with the hand planes or the table saw but if you feel like your not getting anything done and you need to do a quick project for moral then the lathe is a great way to go . I am going to turn a few chisel totes in Cocobolo and I cant wait to do it but i have things in front of this so I am not doing it today.


----------



## OnlyJustME

It's called retirement for the normal person ITnerd. You'll get that life some day. lol

Good looking mini-you Chrisstef. My wife would have been so much more relaxed had ours been that cro magnun at that age. He was always below the chart and she was always worried about his eating. Soon he'll be pressing those 6 ouncers and dumpin what you think are dumpster size. lol and wait til those meat hooks get equipped with razor sharp talons.

If those people are out in public like that they don't care so go on and take that picture then post it in the HPOYD thread lol not here.

I'm working with an old Tool Kraft lathe with step pulleys and a belt. It's not too hard to switch the belt to the next pulley. i just pull it to the next smaller pulley and rotate by hand and the belt moves over. easier with a longer belt i guess. i don't really know how the HF one is set up but looks like it uses a really small belt. My motor is mounted on a shelf on the base.

Is the antler trick different than using a burnishing rod? insert locker room humor here.


----------



## bhog

Nerd thanks,thats kinda what I was thinking.Next time hit up shellac.net he carries it for 34.60 lb.And while your there snag some ruby,love that stuff even used it on elm.

OJ-M (kinda a good one)

Im honestly not sure,but probably.I dont know if there is anything to the antler other than a hard smooth surface. I have a few racks in the basement I have been meaning to mount if I decide to cut one up I will let you guys know.


----------



## WhoMe

Ok, here is one for you frequent chisel users out there. I have a inexpensive set of Stanleys that I got on sale. The blue handled 5002s that wood craft sells. STAY AWAY from these. The backs took forever to flatten only the 1' from the blade and sharpening them took a while as all surfaces had a lot of machine marks. I bought them based on the recommendation form my local woodcrap store and IMO, even my one Buck brothers chisel that I got from HD may perform better. I needed a set of user chisels but could not afford much better at the time. 
Anyway here is my question. With a 25 degree main bevel and a 30 degree microbevel, using them on douglas fir door jambs produces a turned edge (toard the back) after only a couple of mortices for hinges and lockset mortices. BUT, I just used them on hard maple cutting some dovetails and I was not getting any turned edge. BTW, I have a new appreciation for hand cut dovetails. On all these cases, the chisels were sharp enough to shave hair on my arm.

This seems just the opposite of what I should expect. Anyone have any clue as to why this would be????

AND as soon as I can afford a good set of chisels, my bank account will be a couple hundred smaller.


----------



## racerglen

Bhog, I think your "tripple clover" mark is a Marples variation ?
I'll have to take a look when I get home, there's a couple on my wall….


----------



## Brit

Glen is right. It is the Marples Shamrock brand.


----------



## bhog

Glen,Andy thanks.Thats the one.Were they an economical alternative or something?


----------



## Brit

I think the Shamrock brand were well respected joiners tools. Check out this old advertisement. Gotta love that last line. )


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

'See that you get it…'

Love that!


----------



## OnlyJustME

too bad Irwin owns them now.

Sorry bout the Cardinals Smitty


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh well, helluva ride while it lasted! 

Repost, but new to the chisels thread. Boxed Diamond Edge set of chisels.


----------



## lysdexic

Smitty, I am not going to be able to help with the wood identification except to say that I was under he impression the cherry splinters or splits easily in realtion to other woods. If that is the case, then it wouldn't make sense to use it for an impact tool handle. Furthermore, I have not ever seen another tool maker, either modern or vintage choose cherry for this application.

Other than that they are simply glorious.

Do they have a leather washer?


----------



## mochoa

Maybe its hornbeam?


----------



## lysdexic

LN's are hornbeam.

Are you going to use them Smitty? I know that you have the Stanley SW's. Just curious.


----------



## DaddyZ

Andy - Love the fact on the ad that Marples will sell you Cramps, Like you don't have enough already!!!!!!


----------



## ITnerd

Smitty, hard to tell without some closeups of the end grain and possibly the sides showing the quartersawn profile. Common handle materials would have been Beech, Hickory or more rarely Ash. Beech is a lighter wood, which can get that nice golden caramel color with BLO over the years; you should be able to see some flecking on 2 sides of the handle.

The fourth handle over, the slightly rounder one, looks to be oak or Persimmons. Persimmons is a great wood for handles and the like, its one of the hardest woods native to North America, also known as White Ebony - it was used for Club heads before steel replaced it in the golf industry. It's also used to box modern wooden planes instead of Boxwood, which has gotten ridiculously expensive, although some makers still use boxwood.

Likely Persimmons if you can't feel the difference between the hard wood and the growth rings, Oak if you can feel the difference - or if it has the rays seen in Oak on a couple of the sides.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"Yes" to leather ends, Scott. And Chris, those are good insights. From what you've decribed, aged beech is likely. I know hickory, and this (Sir) is no hickory…

The odd ball you picked out must be a user-made replacement (sigh) and I'd say it is persommin (again, based on your observations and suggestions, and that I know oak (and this, Sir, is no oak). 

I'd like to make a matched set of six handles in the exact pattern of the originals in hickory, but it'll have to wait for the day I know how to use a lathe with some skill. Could be awhile, and that's sad because I intend to use them as paring chisels whenever the need arises. They'll be in the Wall Hung when it's complete…


----------



## Brit

*DaddyZ* - Yeah I laughed at that too but just in case anyone think otherwise, a cramp is another word for a clamp even though it not used much these days.


----------



## GMatheson

This is my first post on one of these big forum topics but I have been trying to follow along and figure I should share my new 1/2" mortise chisel. I picked this up at an antique tool show for $6 along with a few other socket chisels that all need new handles.










So after some clean up with a little brass wheel and cleaning the handle I gave the handle a good soaking in oil then gave it a few coats of shellac and wax. It was looking good but still pretty useless as a chisel since the tip was blunter than most of my screwdrivers. I freehanded it on the grinding stone to remove most of the metal then put the chisel in my sharpening jig and ran it on my stationary belt sander (pretty sure I learned that trick here). Once it was looking good I finished it on my waterstones.


----------



## ITnerd

Damn nice Pigsticker you got there, quite a steal at 6 bucks.

On behalf of the regular hooligans who follow the handplane/chisel/mallet/saw/gerbil threads - welcome!

We are generally harmless, except to each others tool budgets.


----------



## chrisstef

that is one badass pig sticker for 6 beans! nice save

+1 to IT … budget busters


----------



## donwilwol

yep, for $6 it would have come home with me as well.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

OOH NO another one that have joint the slippery galoot highway 
that we have to compeat with on the hunt on tools …. ))

Nice pigsticker you scored ….. hope your mallet survive if you try to split the handle on it …. LOL
I can confirm what Chris say …... you better sell the car now than later …. 

Dennis


----------



## Bertha

GM, that pigsticker is phenomenal. It's glorious. I don't even want to talk about the price


----------



## ITnerd

I figured its time I shared the family with the thread - its a motley bunch, but I love them so. Newer ones are Barr Cabinet Makers Chisels. Older ones are almost all Witherby Firmers and Bench Chisels. My first turned handle is 3rd from right.









Mortise chisels closeup- Butcher & 2 Witherbys, with the oddish Skew I find very handy for cleaning up the flat insides of mortises.









Witherby gouges, with my second attempt at a handle second from right (persimmons):









Some of my favorites - a patternmakers set of gouges.









And a closeup of my 2 turned handles. I still have to get better at the waists. 









Much thanks for the finishing Advice Al! Smaller was finished at 220, then had 2 coats of platina shellac and 1 coat of Renaissance Wax. Larger is finished to 2000grit, 2k grit again between coats of shellac, then buffed with cotton and stiff nylon brush. Its smooth as glass, very hard to put down. I thought the first one looked good, until I followed your advice and did the second.


----------



## chrisstef

IT your patternmaker gouges are friggin phenomenal.


----------



## Bertha

OK, gents. A chisels-for-sale mini-flood. I'll just come straight out with prices, per the benefactor.
.
Brace yourselves.
.
Bridge City. *$1100 shipped.* Never used. Custom box and mallet included.
.


















.
PM me if serious.


----------



## donwilwol

Al, that's a beautiful set of chisels, but at $1100 it better come with that Porsche accessory you posted somewhere!!


----------



## Bertha

Lol, Don. Unfortunately, tools don't exactly draw the chicks. It's definitely an investment set, a line I promised myself I'd never cross. It's sooooo beautiful that you can't help but consider it. 8 chisels and a mallet; let's call it 9 pieces. 1100/9 = $122 each. Not that bad for a BC, and all matching. I'm tempted, but I must resist.


----------



## waho6o9

It's worth every cent and is probably undervalued, considering
it's no longer in production.


----------



## donwilwol

tools don't exactly draw the chicks
True, but being able to spend that kind of cash on a set of chisel would. And I didn't ever say they weren't worth it, nor did I say you'd be crazy to buy it. I'm just sayin if you can, I'm enormously jealous of you.


----------



## Brit

When you consider that a little BC adjustable square like mine (also no longer in production) went for over £250 on ebay, that isn't a bad price.


----------



## Bertha

Andy, I thought of you as soon as I learned of them. We can all agree that they're very much worth the price; and will only become more desirable. I haven't entirely ruled out buying them, but I couldn't use them. That's a line I promised myself I wouldn't cross. Andy uses his square actively; that, I admire. I couldn't bang a hammer against these chisels. They'll definitely be worth their price equivalent in gold in 5 years.


----------



## Bertha

I bet some lurker from Blue Spruce will buy them, lol


----------



## Bagtown

wow.


----------



## racerglen

Al there are days you seriously scare me….

;-)


----------



## ShaneA

Those are nice, not only hard to pay for, but almost impossible NOT to use. They would make me nervous. Using/sharpening would be tough with shaky hands.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

Bertha just invest …. forget them outside over the winther …...................................
and you have no trouble of banging on them with a maul .. LOL

just don´t bring such picture tooooo often … Droooool … 
have to …. Droooool… change clothe … Droooool…now … drooooool … 
please do ….. drooooool .. delete them …. droooool … my vallet …. droooool .. shakes of fear….

Dennis


----------



## bhog

Speak for yourself Al….My tool has drawn chicks from across state lines.Oh ya,and its true.

If I had the extra coin I would buy em and post a pic of me whackin each one with a blue spruce in figured maple.Thats how youre suposed to get down.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"Thats how youre suposed to get down."

I knew I liked that guy…


----------



## Brit

Hang on a cotton pickin' minute chaps. Since when do ya bash skew chisels and cranked paring chisels. Can't tell what the middle three are, corner chisels maybe? I wouldn't bash them either.

No! They are tools to caress, for relieving your stress, for doing your best work no less. I'd better stop there or we'll all be rapping again.


----------



## racerglen

Caress…relieving… DAMN..I'm channeling Al…...


----------



## AnthonyReed

"I knew I liked that guy…"

Yep


----------



## Bertha

*post a pic of me whackin-hog*
.
Yeah, I like him, too. But for different sick reasons.
.
I totally agree, Andy. If they were in a dirty tool roll, I'd probably reach for them. But in that custom BC walnut box, I'm not sure I could do much more than a shoolboy 2nd base. Oh, OK, third base. Handle first, of course. But go gentle, this is my first trip to the gloryhole that is Bridge City. By that, I mean I'd watch baseball whilst hesitantly cleaning and polishing them. Go baseball team of your choice!


----------



## bhog

LOL guys.

I admit I have tapped skews but not whacked,I didnt even notice the cranknecks.

Andy-no denying it ,that was a rap.


----------



## Boatman53

Here's my favorite. I don't know the brand. I think it just says warranted, it is two inches wide. I use it for trimming and paring bungs. And any other paring task


----------



## Brit

That's a beauty Jim.


----------



## chrisstef

Hog, your a sick sick dude. Across state lines huh … you must live on the four corners down there in AZ right. "Is that really a *&%$, ive gotta get closer to see"

Those BC's, much like all BC's that ive consumed, are delicious.


----------



## bhog

^ lol Stef.Burn!! The storys I could tell you young grasshoppa.

Not going there but Im not sure I would be talking about consuming BC's….just saying.Kinda suprised nobody(Al) ran with that one.


----------



## chrisstef

and a solid return burn lol .. well played .. well played.


----------



## thedude50

Al if I sign the contract on the sf nursing job I will take the BC chisel and mallet set I wish they were pmv 111 or what ever the new steel is this week but the bc tools look better than the veritas


----------



## Bertha

Dude, BC and Veritas in the same sentence? The shame
If the chisels are still around, I'm sure he'd be happy to sell them to you.
I keep looking at them. So gorgeous.
.
Jim, that chisel is wonderful. I love how someone just capped the socket, almost like you could use it without it. The camber is very well executed. If that's your handiwork, I'd love to get a brief tutorial. al


----------



## Boatman53

Yes Berta I modified it good or bad it's my work. I did that about 25 years ago. I found the chisel at a yard sale paid little for it as the handle was splintered from someone pounding on it. I cut the handle down where the original handle narrowed and rounded it up. I used it that way intending to make a new longer handle. but I really liked it short and I have fantastic control. So a friend gave me a chunk of Purpleheart a few minuets on a belt sander and I I hade the socket fitted, then I shaped the rest of it on the belt sander while it was attached to the chisel. The camber also was shaped on the belt sander by eye. Sometimes I think it is too much and other days too little, so it must be about right. I can measure the camber later but right now I'm off to do more storm prep for Sandy. I'm almost done. I think the biggest thing we will be dealing with is potential tides 8' higher than normal. All my customers boats are stored away already so I'm set there. Now just packing away things that can blow.


----------



## WhoMe

OK, guys, I just got a gift of $100 to be used expressly for NEW woodworking tools. I was told I could not get some used tools to rehab. ...bummer,,,,
Since I have several planes (and any that I want are way more than $100) and saws (that I don't use that much) and since my current set of Stanley 5002's can't cut douglas fir without turning edges (absolute crap), I have started to look at a set of better chisels. I just saw that Rockler has a set of 4 new Stanley Sweethearts for $99. 
I decided to look online at reviews of the chisels. Overall, they are getting great reviews BUT, I keep seeing recurring comments about the handles coming loose. Both from reviews and also from random comments about storing them and humidity. Like, don't store the chisels by hanging them from the handles as there has been a occasional handle come loose and the chisel drops. Also that sometimes the lack of humidity can allow the wood to shrink a little and the handle come loose. 
Since these are wedged in, I see no issue with them being put back together.

So, for the folks that have these chisels, Is this really an issue?????


----------



## ShaneA

Why not some Ashley Iles? About same price, probably better reviewed, for what that's worth. The ones I have seem really nice, no experience w/the SW chisels. But I know they have their fans too. Eh, maybe couple of each?


----------



## OnlyJustME

I don't find it to be an issue. A couple taps on the handle before you use it reseats it and it's fine. Wood is in constant motion and i just think of it as part of this type of chisel. I would expect it from any socket chisel no matter who makes it and how much it costs.


----------



## ksSlim

Socket handles loose, borrow someone's hairspray. Learned that trick some years ago.
Pull handle out, spray the part that goes in the socket, reinsert before it dries.


----------



## thedude50

Who Me I own two full sets of 8 of these chisels in the box that came with the chisels there was a tiny little slip of paper that said if you want the handles to stick in the sockets and to not come loose please sand them with 200 grit or slightly rougher sand paper or something to that effect. As Part of my tool review I left one set as was and the other set I sanded with 150 grit paper. as I had no 200 and I didn't want to go smoother than the recommendation. The set I left with the glaze on the totes do pop off easier it is no big deal as they dont seem to pop off while I am using them but more like when I am laying them down to switch tools. I read the totes were coated with a lacquer as was the steel of the chisel to prevent wear and corrosion. I left the paint on the fronts of the chisels but on the backs it came off with flattening. It took about 10 to 15 minutes to get the backs flat enough for my standards which I feel are very high. I then spent another 5 minutes on the wet stones to get a razor edge on them. I did not re grind these as i HAVE OTHER HEAVER CHISELS GROUND FOR MALLET WORK I think I may end up taking one set to 30 degrees to see how the edge holds up to this heavier work. Although I prefer a firmer chisel for this kind of work.

I will be giving these chisels very high marks on my review as I was testing cut to sharpening time by paring boards of strong hardwoods for timed minutes until the tool changed from sharp to working sharp to working dull and finally to dull. These chisels out preformed many of the old steel chisels I compared them to I don't have the new veritas chisels to compare but they will be up against some serious steel in the new sweethearts also once dull the chisel was quick to get back to sharp it was 2 minutes on the tormek and 90 seconds on the Naniwa water stones.

The biggest question I have in this is if sharpening is so quick on these chisels and they hold their edge for so long how can I justify paying three to 4 times as much for a set of5 veritas chisels as I did for 8 Stanley chisels is the return there? The only ones that may say yes are the people who suck at sharpening. and if you suck at sharpening get a Tormek Even a monkey can get perfect results on a Tormek that system is solid. results are guaranteed.

Giants Win! in 4


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Whome - not an issue. Use hairspray…


----------



## Bertha

+1 hairspray minus the Ricky Lake. I doesn't take much. Spit down the socket would probably work.


----------



## WhoMe

Thanks all for the helpful info. I'm still a little undecided on what to get with the $$ but the set of 4 sweethearts are way high on the list.


----------



## Bertha

I'd second Shane's recommendation on the Iles. I'm not a big fan of "new" but I'm envious of your situation I was going to ignore the new 750s until Smitty liked them. That really got me interested. I know the LN are kind of played out, but they're really nice. Have you considered turning Japanese? 
.
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/dept/TBJ
.
I can't stare at them too long. Getting aroused is embarrassing.


----------



## Bertha

OMG.
.


----------



## chrisstef

Those japanese chisels are manly good looking rugged and hansome with a level of utter sophistication.


----------



## AnthonyReed

I know Scott asked it once but i have never read an answer; what happens once you sharpen back to the hollow on the Japanese chisels?


----------



## DrDirt

So reading the new FWW magazine and Chris Gochnour talked about the new PM-v11 powdered metal based chisel and plane irons from Veritas.

The chisels aren't in general circulation yet, but the plane irons are.

It sounds really good, regarding edge holding.
ANybody else thinking about biting on the new stuff?


----------



## JGM0658

As you sharpen them the hollow keeps moving back. I was skeptical of this claim when I first bought mine, but it does happen since I have had mine for years and it is what I am seeing.


----------



## waho6o9

http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-PC-JAPANESE-WOOD-WORKING-CHISEL-WOODWORKING-TOOL-SET-/29050649

I purchased these around 100.00, now they're 140.00 free shipping, and I like the balance
and the edge retention on them as well.


----------



## ShaneA

Japanese chisels are pretty cool…as long as you can keep it to the standard grade, the price is reasonable. Those twisted neck looking ones pictured above, probably have a price to match their beauty.


----------



## ITnerd

DrDirt, I'm mostly a witherby guy, but if I were to buy any new chisels, they would be the PM-V11 ones.

Like Lance mentions above, if you've got good sharpening kit and are proficient at sharpening, no big win. But if your slow to sharpen, or have to break down and setup your sharpening space (like I do in my small shop), then getting more work between sharpening and honing is really nice.

I think my resistance will break down when they come out with the PM-V11 mortise chisels. God forbid they come out with a nice looking pigsticker style, I'll probably cry tears of joys while I give them my money.


----------



## lysdexic

"what happens once you sharpen back to the hollow on the Japanese chisels?"

"As you sharpen them the hollow keeps moving back."

Conceptually, I still don't grasp how this happens. I will just attribute it to elfin magic.


----------



## waho6o9

The Twisted Neck Oire-Nomi Chisels by Nishiki above does indeed have 
a price to match their beauty.
1635.70 plus tax & shipping I think. 
Sure is a nice chisel set.


----------



## Mosquito

Scott, think of it like hollow grinding. As you flatten the back, the hollow keeps getting smaller and smaller, so the leading edge keeps getting thicker.


----------



## ShaneA

I will accept the fact that the hollow moves back on the chisels. But, I personally don't "get it". Doesn't make sense to me, but that ain't sayin' much!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Thank you JGM. And thanks for the analogy Mos; it helps me understand it a little better but i don't know that my head is fully wrapped around it yet.

As the back is flattened the hollows grow more shallow, allowing the leading edge to grow…. It's a friggin' koan.


----------



## JGM0658

If it makes you guys feel any better, I do not understand it either. It is either Elfin magic as Scott posted, or there is a tiny Japanese guy working like hell to fill in the hollow every time I sharpen.


----------



## jap

i can't understand how you guys don't understand it. lol


----------



## OnlyJustME

So does the thickness of the blade get thinner as you sharpen it?


----------



## jap

yes


----------



## WhoMe

Hey, maybe the grooves on the backs of those Japanese chisels are made to hold some powerful Sake…..


----------



## thedude50

*I think my resistance will break down when they come out with the PM-V11 mortise chisels. God forbid they come out with a nice looking pigsticker style, I'll probably cry tears of joys while I give them my money.*

Chris, If they come out with a Pig Sticker chisel that looks like an old English Pig Sticker. I would end my Veritas Boycott and Id be right behind you in line to get a set of these.


----------



## thedude50

I don't believe it is Magic. I think it is as Jap says. As you sharpen the front then flatten the back the chisel is slowly worn away. The mastery is in the making, the dish has to be perfect so as to be concave at just the right angle so as you flatten the back it wears at the same rate as the edge wears. so simply the chisel will grow thinner as the blade gets shorter. Exact science not magic. None the less it is very cool


----------



## GMatheson

Last week I posted my 1/2" pig sticker and today I will share the leather guards I made to protect the tips of my mortise chisels.





































With the case for the larger chisel I sewed a rare earth magnet into the tab to help keep it on the chisel


----------



## OnlyJustME

Cool idea with the magnet. Might have to do this for some old ones i have.


----------



## Bertha

GMath is becoming my new hero. I absolutely love those protectors. I love the hand-hewn look and I love that you incorporated a flap into the feed ramp. If you would like to make some more and you're willing to sign them, I'd be ready to do business. 
.
Dude, I'm not totally down with this fancy metal madness but it's mostly out of ignorance. If ANYONE comes out with a new pigsticker, I'm interested. I'm like Nerd; I'd lay down a ton of money even with the risk.
.
I'm a chisel guy and I understand how the hollow back is confusing. I think I understand the dilemma. If you consider that the middle of the cutting edge will be MUCH thinner (meaning less steel behind it in the hollow) as it shortens, it's easier to conceptualize. Remember that the cutting edge will still be perpendicular to the long axis of the chisel (think of it on the stone); you'll just have a delicate center. If you think of the way we generally use chisels, although the delicate center is vulnerable, it's pretty protected relative to the sides/edges.
.
I like heavy metal, but I don't know a whole lot about metal. I just know I like Witherby and Butcher. I can't afford quality Japanese chisels, although I have a few stragglers.
.
I have one Japanese mortise chisel that's about 1/8 inch. It's diminutive, maybe 5 inches long, but it's got a ring and a really cool look and feel. I soaked it in BLO until it was literally cast in a plastic-looking film. I can't decide whether to clean it up or leave it be. I really love it, but it's a bit far gone. I'll take a picture.


----------



## lysdexic

GMath, I agree. The rare earth magnet is a clever idea to keep these covers put.

I have decided that I need to get at least one Japanese chisel and sharpen it a thousand times to truly understand. I guess that I am just not the sharpest chisel in the till :^)


----------



## AnthonyReed

I'll split the cost of the chisel with you if you send me your notes once you have attained understanding.


----------



## GMatheson

Bertha - I could make more but I don't think anyone wants my chicken scratch all over the nice leather

These covers were just a warm up for me. After I finished them I started on a chisel roll. It should be done by the end of the weekend. No pictures yet but it looks alot like the lie neilson chisel roll. I have learned that sewing is hard on the pinkys tho


----------



## OnlyJustME

It's hard on any of the finger tips using a stitch awl and thick leather. I like the rivet idea but i always worry about hitting the rivet with the edge while putting them in. I've made some leather sheaths before but they always too loose and fall off. Or too tight and cut the stitches. Never thought about the magnet before. will have to incorporate that in future.


----------



## Bertha

Gmath, I'd only want it with the scratch I'm serious about wanting to purchase a few. Having stuff like this from pals really makes my visits to the shop memorable. I've got enough now that I can spend an hour just holding and smiling. PM me if you've got some you'd like to part with.


----------



## Mosquito

GMath, I like the covers as well. Magnets are a great idea

I made a chisel rack today out of scrap… It was a side track (and somewhat counter productive) while I was "cleaning the shop"... the chisels were sitting on the floor, so I fixed that


----------



## Brit

Nice rack Mos. Much better than having loose them on the floor.


----------



## Bertha

Andy and Mos are WorkMate brothers. I pulled mine out the other day to pull things apart. I thought instantly of y'all when I did. I think it's a very cool contraption. Someone should build one using Benchcraft screws. Or better yet, 3 inch wooden screws. That would be legendary.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Sounds like you have another project Al. lol


----------



## Bertha

Not ANOTHER, Matt!!!


----------



## lysdexic

Mos, You have been a productive feller of late.


----------



## Mosquito

This weekend was pretty busy. I started cleaning shop Saturday night, but only really made it as far as cleaning up the shavings and sweeping some of the sawdust into a garbage bag… Then I got distracted by the chisels on the floor, and made the chisel rack. Made huge progress last night, though. It's all picked up and half the room is vacuumed (it got later than I wanted to run the vacuum).

One of my first projects after resetting everything might be to build a rack for my Bailey chisels. I like the idea of not laying them on the table. Not sure how I'll do that yet, though, as it can't be quite the same as the current one, since some of the chisels are wider than the handle. I have ideas though…


----------



## GMatheson

So as promised here are some pics of the chisel roll i made this weekend.




























I guess the next little project is to give these poor chisels some handles.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Very nice, GMatheson!!! Really well done.


----------



## Brit

Great job on the chisel roll.


----------



## GMatheson

Aww thanks…I think for the next rolls I will probably use double straps. It should keep it closed up better


----------



## Gshepherd

Sweet lookin roll there, last time I saw a roll that good was when the ex missed the last two steps coming from the courthouse…..


----------



## Boatman53

That's a nice tool roll. I though all the chisels shared the same handle to save space.
Jim


----------



## GMatheson

That might actually be a great idea Jim. Well at least if the sockets were all the same size.


----------



## Bertha

Gmath, you're getting yourself into trouble!! Everyone's going to want those rolls. It's truly magnificent. I especially like the closure buckle. The leather looks very supple, as well. Very nice.


----------



## bhog

Heres a couple pics of some of the drawers I was talking about.I didnt see any butchers though.Damn mice and recluses have taken over.Found some lacewood in the shop too.I left everything I need to bomb it.


----------



## donwilwol

Brandon, that looks like my chisel drawer.


----------



## ShaneA

So, are all those yours Brandon? Looks like a few shapes, sizes and types floating around. Are those crank neck jobbers paring chisels or gouges? Never used that type chisel before, they look intriguing…


----------



## bhog

Ya, there are both.This gramps was a pattern maker.Going in that shop is like being an archeologist.I found rolls of auger bits under a bench just rusting away.Stuff everywhere.I probably got spider bit digging around in there today,the dang things love me.I found 5 starret/brown and sharpe center finders ,like all the lost ones in one spot-damn gremlin hole.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Except for the bites, that has to be fun.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Holy Cow, B, that's an incredible stash!! Well done!!


----------



## OnlyJustME

I love archeology digs like that.


----------



## carguy460

GMatheson - great chisel roll! I really need (want) to make one of those for my chisels…I have it in my head that some decorative tooling on the outside of the roll would be pretty sweet.


----------



## GMatheson

You should make one Jason. It really is pretty easy. And the decorative tooling idea is great. Definitely a good way to personalize your roll.


----------



## vipond33

I've got half a dozen oddball Japanese chisels that I've used since the early 80's, none of them high zoot but still fine for their specialty purposes.

Because they are seldom used and I don't spend much time flattening the back the hollows are still pretty much intact. I've read that you can tap them with a hammer to re-form but after my experience with the 1/2" straight one I don't know if I would attempt it. The laminated steel is really hard and brittle
I used it to chop a mortise and cracked it as you can see. The bright spot is that I now have a small cranked necked chisel that I use all the time for cleanup.

Last month I bought one of Lee Valley's cheap ($58) Japanese chisels, a short and very wide one which I'm really pleased with so far. I like the widest chisel possible in my work for paring and slicing and this compact size is great for control. The handle ring is loose and I know that there is some sort of an elaborate procedure for mounting it, but I think I'll just pound in a wedge.


----------



## ShaneA

Gene, the hollow on the back of those looks way farther back than the set I have. Nice looking stuff.


----------



## Bertha

Gene, I've got a similar short and wide. I love those skews.


----------



## vipond33

Shane, the new one has a massive hollow, right out to within a 32nd of the sides and a 16th of the front. I don't need a shallow reverse gouge much so I guess I'll be polishing the back a bit more.


----------



## Bertha

Gene, that thing is gorgeous. I love that it has seen some use. I'm fascinated by how symmetrical the hollow is. Amazing. Do you know the maker of the chisel directly above?


----------



## lysdexic

Al, I looked for Butcher steel today but found none.


----------



## Bertha

Thanks for the lookout, Scotty. In a similar lookout, a fellow LJ hooked me up in the mail today. I'll post pictures later but I'm pumped. He included a Disston keyhole. I was so pumped that I invited the mailman into she shop and shot the breeze for a while (true story). I spent the morning rehabbing yet another Butcher horny woodie from DonYoda. Today is a good day. Scotty, I'm in that last-Board-finished mode and I'm not accustomed to being away from the books. 'bit paralyzing, oddly enough.
.
For the second time, I would like to retract anything negative I have said about the DMT Xcoarse. This is the second time in a week or so that I would have been sunk without it. I'm not completely sold on the diamonds yet, but outside of a surface grinder, I think the coarse DMTs are a force.


----------



## Mosquito

I've been using my coarse dmt to flatten my waterstone…


----------



## vipond33

Bertha, you're in luck as I normally strip off labels the moment I get a tool. Here's a shot of the chop mark as well and if your Japanese is better than mine you're all set.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

those japaneese chisels is factory made with the hollow back 
after the western woodworkers did fell in love with the japaneese tools 
they also make the wider chisels with two and three hollows on the backside of them

Dennis


----------



## Bertha

Gene, I won't get into all of my pet peeves, but one of them is labels on tools. I bring a tool home, angrily get out the Goo Gone, and prepare for a screaming fest. Stamp your work, skip the stupid labels; makes no sense to me. Then again, I'm looking at an ad for bikini hair removal in the margin of my screen. New times, brother.


----------



## JGM0658

I'm looking at an ad for bikini hair removal in the margin of my screen.

Ok, now you are taking the man love too far bubba…..go look at your guns…


----------



## donwilwol

I missed part of the conversation but I'm a dmt convert. I use nothing but dmt's now.


----------



## Bertha

Don, I was a DMT holdout. After flattening a few irons this weekend (with black fingers to prove it), I believe in the coarse DMTs now.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

Bertha what does they cost in US and what stone is the best … where to buy
in europe the prices are rediclius high for a diamat stone

Dennis


----------



## WhoMe

Well… I FINALLY pulled the trigger on that set of Stanley Sweethearts 2 weeks ago. It may not be as nice as some of those Japanese ones but these are the nicest chisels I have. And since I got them for $90 for the set of 4 on sale, I was under my $100 limit so that was a good thing.










A couple of things that I have discovered with these Stanley's compared to my other set with the BIG blue plastic handles. I have used them for about a week on various projects and basic playing around with them to get more familiar with them including some chopping and paring on scraps of maple, pine and cherry. I also used them while hanging 6 doors on both the doors and the door frames with chopping and paring.

The good…..
They are MUCH lighter and actually feel way more balanced. 
For the short time that I have used them, they seem to be more enjoyable to use.
They take to mallet use nicely. 
They seem to keep their edge WAY longer than my other chisels….when used correctly.
Equivalent sharpening technique of old versus new - the stanleys sure sharpen with a much nicer edge.

The BAD…..
Sharpening good steel takes a good bit longer and I think there is a direct relationship between the width of the chisel and how long it takes to flatten the backs. I think it is something along the lines of doubling the width takes 4 times the amount of time to sharpen them. 
I was surprised that even though the machine marks were WAAAY smaller than my other set of chisels, they were still more prominent than I would have expected. And of course, going back to the better steel takes longer to sharpen, it took longer to remove some of the machine marks. 
Socket chisels take a little getting used to versus molded plastic handles with tangs. My 1/2" one had the handle continually coming loose even though I popped it on the workbench several times- with blade mounted on handle and hitting the back of the handle to drive the blade onto the handle better. BUT, after using it for a shor time with a mallet, it seemed to fix itself and so far seems to be staying together. The other 3 were fine after the initial smacking.

So, so far, I am really happy with my investment. I'll have to see how many reviews of these chisels are on LJ and if there is anything I can add, I may add my own review. 
Thanks for all the good advice on these.

BTW, I need to find time to sit down take some pictures and figure out/catalog a bunch of old chisels and gouges that I inherited. I will probably need some help from you experts out there in identifying them.


----------



## Bertha

WhoMe, one of my first encounters on LJ was with Smitty about these chisels. His word is pretty much gospel to me and he likes this chisels; which means I do. I have a bunch of old 750's but not the newer ones. I'm really happy for you; they are gorgeous chisels. I'm not usually a chisel roll guy, but that one is handsome as all get out.

From a LJ pal
.


----------



## WhoMe

Al, I was showing these off to a woodworking friend and she was complaining that she spent more on her chisels and the leather tool roll was not as nice or had the front flap/cover. Personally, I am just trying to figure out the roll. It seems like it will protect the tools well when flat but rolled up, it doesn't seem like it rolls well. 
It does have a nice Stanley SW logo on the front and the leather is actually nice and soft too.


----------



## chrisstef

WhoMe - There are 2 grommeted holes in each corner of that roll, at least the set i have does, and it looks damn handsome hung up on the wall. Ive got my set on the opposite wall from the door to the shop. Im kindly greeted each time i walk in with the emBOSSed SW logo. Stef likey.

Al - nice lookin gouge there … 3/4"? How do you guys sharpen your gouges? Ive got a WM Greaves that im lookin to hook up.


----------



## dbray45

I do mine by hand - with DMT (diamond stones), finish with the 3 micron plate


----------



## stonedlion

Minor gloat - I won these at an auction today for $67.50

A vintage set of five Stanley 750's. I think I did OK at that price.


----------



## ShaneA

You "think you did ok"....I think you did great. You could easily double your money on ebay. But, I vote you keep them and enjoy. Congrats, they look awesome.


----------



## stonedlion

Shane - thanks, that was my assessment too; I could flip them pretty quick for twice what I paid.

But, once I sharpen them and take them for a test drive they will almost certainly never leave my shop.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Richard - Those are beautiful, nice pick-up!

Not a vintage SW or #720 set, but I did score a set of six #60 butt chisels for $22.50, custom canvas role included.



















Nice bench beaters, for sure!


----------



## ShaneA

Sweet score, and an incredible price.


----------



## lysdexic

Nice pick ups Richard and Smitty


----------



## chrisstef

Man 'Tis the season for tool gloatin around here. Vintage 750's, vintage 60's, butcher gouges, and modern 750's all on this page alone. The force is in good shape lately. Keep it strong fellas.


----------



## Boatman53

I must be shopping in all the wrong places. I got this chisel at a yard sale this past summer. It is typical of what I find. The guy actually called it a caulking iron. For the record he gave it to me there is no way I would have paid money for it.


----------



## Gshepherd

Sweet lookin Chisels…..

Question: The old chisels like the Everlasting and 750's as we all know are excellent. Who makes chisels now that has the same material (steel) composition as the old Stanleys?


----------



## WhoMe

Great score Richard, I would say that you did extremely well. Last I looked on ebay for the vintage 750's, a single chisel was going for close to 75-80% of what you paid for whole set. Nice score.


----------



## donwilwol

Richard, thats exactly what I'm looking for too. Nice set.

Smitty, how do you like the #60. I've always had good luck with the stanley chisels like that. I've got a 1" or 1 1/4" thats about 1" long from sharpening it on the belt sander so much after cutting nails and who knows what else.


----------



## chrisstef

Jim, looks like that chisel has seen some real abuse. Keep lookin brother, theyre out there, and when you find that gem it will be that much sweeter.


----------



## donwilwol

Jim, I think you can save it.


----------



## Boatman53

I am going to save it Don, just the way it is. I might even mount it on a plaque. 
Jim


----------



## jap

Jim - that caulking iron is for pounding in the caulking in the seems for a carvel planked boats to make the seem water tight. it is not a chisel.


----------



## Mosquito

what you have there, Jim, although over-burred, is the rarefied scraper chisel


----------



## Bertha

Richard, you cleaned up on those 750s. I expect to spend about $40 each with shipping on a good day. These things go in cycles (Witherby, Winchester, Butcher, etc.) but the 750s are a constant. The smaller sizes are ones I'd be all over. 
.
Jim, I haven't seen a mushroom like that since I saw Lysdexic in the YMCA shower. The guys at the gym call him Sea Urchin. That sucker has been abused and I love it (see previous). I've got a few like that and I always thought it would be cool to form a tang/socket on a metal lathe and handle one of those suckers, give it a new life. I've got a few slickers with an edge like that, lol. Really cool chisel.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Don, I'll share of pic of the 'lands' on the 3/8" chisel when I can, but suffice to say it lacks an attention to detail.  The #60s really are modern #40 Everlasts, but in butt form. I like them for what they are: Bench chisels that can venture into the field without concern. They hone well, and hold and edge, and have good weight and balance. They're not ideal for dovetailing, but not everyone is.


----------



## Bertha

Jim, that's a job for a DMT extra coarse. I'm paying penance for denigrating them in the past. Smit, I need to get back to you on that 66. I forgot my password to that e-mail account, lol.


----------



## Boatman53

Jap_ it's a chisel, or was. Here is a photo of 3 of my 12 caulking irons.


----------



## donwilwol

that's what happens when you break up a concrete sidewalk with a wood chisel.


----------



## Bertha

YES! Boatman! Bad friggin a$$!


----------



## WhoMe

So, I finally got a chance to take pictures of my inherited chisels and gouges. Unfortunately, I won't be able to post pictures until after Thanksgiving but here are some the names I found on them:
?. Doran? gouge
#60 stanley chisel
Rockford Greenlee socket chisel
A. Barton gouge
D.E. Mark chisel with an arrow through the D.E. in the logo
D.R. Barton scoop like gouge
Charles Buck offset gouge
Stanley socket chisel with a red wood handle. No number anywhere. 
A really small F. Bowerman mortise chisel
T.H Witherby gouge
and a Vauter burnishing tool

All of these were users and most show it. Like I said, I can post pics after thanksgiving. if anyone wants me to.

Have a great Thanksgiving all.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'd like to see the DE (Diamond Edge) chisel in full color…


----------



## racerglen

Just for fun..









Upper left, some surplus store Czech one bought a few years back, no maker known but they take and hold a great edge after the flattening was done.
then some Eaton Edgerites of my dad's mixed with Canadian Champions (all likely from the same maker) then a couple of home altered skews, Edgerite and something else..
A Lee Valley blind nailer just hangin' out, then rehandled mortice guys from Marples (happened on a couple of trashed Bahco blades that had good handles) Then a big Marples parring rig, a pair of Stanleys and a wee Marples.
Row two, from the left, cheap Spnish carving set, work not too bad..then two bashers, all meta,l an incher Craftsman and a 3/4 Mayhew, then the Lee Valley crank neck set. very handy. Followed by a L/V gouge set, Spanish orrigin, handy to have.

A blacksmith created gouge full length metal with walnut scales I added, made from a sawmill planer blade..a swan neck from Brit land, and behind the wee brass hammer a home made pull gouge from a half inch half round file.
(never mind what's in the drawers ;-)


----------



## WhoMe

Here ya go Smitty, I haven/t had any time to rehab any of the chisels yet. 








And the stamp


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Beauty! It's a bevel edge, and I love that look! Nice handle, appears original. you agree? Nice shape to it, leather end too. Thanks, Who!


----------



## Bertha

WhoMe, the Witherby is obviously desirable. I like the Bartons quite a bit; is it tang? Smit, I've got a few DEs. I'll try to find one. Glen, I've actually had some good luck with Bahco. Their scrapers are my go to. 
.
Smit, I really like that classy stamp. The arrowhead and fletching reminds me of another favorite stamp of mine


----------



## dbray45

Jim, I wish I had had those when I was tamping oakum for a boat I had. Ended up using a piece of chedar shake instead. Problem was that the previous owner used a skill saw to remove the old and took out the "V" in the edges and the caulk and oakum wouldn't hold - a big surprise when the water came.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm digging DE chisels at this point. Don't aspire to own their planes, but the chisels…

I need to turn some nice handle copies for the box set and use the firmers I picked up at auction a month or so ago. Ah, much to do with little time and many competing interests. Isn't that the way it is?


----------



## chrisstef

Smitty - what type of handle would you put on a firmer chisel? Ive got a 3/8 Witherby firmer that needs a freshy. Im thinking something bulbous that could take a beating. The original had the leather washer but is beyond salvagable at this point.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Stef, I'll take my cues from the handles on the DEs already, and that's bulbous, as you suggest. I'd love to do the leather adder, too, so part of me has high hopes that I can 'transfer' the exisitng leather washers to the new handles. We'll see if that works, though.

I did find a post or blog or something that dealt with making leathers for chisels; the fellah actually fitted them and turned the whole thing on the lathe as final fit, if I recall. Very cool.


----------



## chrisstef

Very cool indeed. Ive only got a couple of items left in the shop for tuning. The chisel, the most boss router plane ever, bandsaw, and tablesaw. As soon as i gt done with my honey do list i will be tackling these projects. Paint 3 doors (friggin hate painting doors) and make 4 board and batten doors. Im trying to convince the wife that the board and battens should be hand planed and left with tool marks. That'll probably go over like a fart in a spacesuit though.


----------



## Bertha

Smit, I went through all of my chisels and couldn't find a DE in the lot (?). Did they make augers? Maybe that's where I'm thinking. 
.
*Im trying to convince the wife that the board and battens should be hand planed and left with tool marks.*
.
They should, so good luck on that. With a dark wipe, are you kidding me? That is the coolest look in existence. I put black wax on almost anything I make now and I don't knock the corners off the planes doing it.


----------



## lysdexic

Black wax??


----------



## chrisstef

Gotta be honest Al. No stain. White paint.

Watching watco dry.


----------



## donwilwol

I'm a firm believer that NOTHING wood should be painted unless Smitty owns it. Somehow, he makes it work.


----------



## Bagtown

Yeah… Black wax???


----------



## waho6o9




----------



## donwilwol

So *WHY* black wax? Does it darken, sound almost like a silly question, but inquiring minds needs to know. Does it shine more?


----------



## chrisstef

Good luck telling that one to the wife Don. Actually maybe you could call her … lol.

Honestly the house is so dark from not getting any sunlight (surrounded by trees) that the white will do it some good. It will also off set our dark stained knotty pine cabinetry from the 60's and the dark stained oak floors. I think im going to finish it off with some oil rubbed strap hinges. Vintage if i can find some.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

Don I don´t know why they have written black bison on the cans 
since I have one with clear wax antique black bison from liberon 
I cuold understand if it was on there brown antique wax

IF YOU NEED INSPIRATION .... 
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/jThompson/howTo/inspiration/inspiration-01.asp

enjoy 
Dennis


----------



## Gshepherd

Here is a chisel and I do not know who makes this mark any ideas?


> ?


?


----------



## Bertha

Never seen it in my life, Shep. Is it a tang forced on a ferrule? What's that little knuckle on the left?


----------



## Gshepherd

Al, I will get a better pic of the handle for ya, the knuckle is a nice SW….. Here is the chisel handle….


----------



## Bertha

I love those friggin calipers
.


----------



## Gshepherd

Al, those are some very old old old oldies….... Any guess on the Chisel?


> ?


----------



## Bertha

I got no clue, Shep. It's desirable, given my fetish, for oversized handles. I'm really intrigued by it. I hope someone identifies that stamp for you.


----------



## thedude50

I am selling a set of 8 brand new in the box chisels Stanley SW I will entertain serious offers over 200 to the highest bidder so to speak this set is ready to ship on Monday merry Christmas to someone


----------



## ShaneA

Yo Lance, not to be a downer…but, I think that set sells on amazon for $188 delivered. FYI.


----------



## Bertha

Re ShaneA
.








.
Are we talking vintage? I'd give you $100 for the new ones. I'm only interested in the new ones b/c Smit vouched for them a LONG time ago.


----------



## ShaneA

Dang! I thought we were talking new…vintage, well, that is another story.


----------



## chrisstef

Just sayin.


----------



## thedude50

Well if they are going that cheep screw it ill just keep them now i have three sets


----------



## thedude50

oh ya i have a full vintage set too they are not for sale


----------



## thedude50

wow shane your right they sold for 229 when i got them the price is bottoming out oh well the new models will be out soon and they will be higher as they are going to be in a2 steel there is going to be a few more planes soon too cant wait to see what they have coming out i love all the new SW tools


----------



## Bertha

Dude, keep your full set of vintage (unless you plan to part with them). I can't comment on the new SW tools except the block that wasn't worthy of a door stop. I know Shep hid some bindles in his up the shoot when he got popped for vagrancy, but I haven't found another use.
.
You do keep your eye on the metal pulse, though, Dude. I'm inclined to believe anything you tell me about new metals. Of course, if you lie to me, I'll stab you with a Benchmade But you knew that. I'm working on your brass today.


----------



## thedude50

IO only know what my connection at Stanley is telling me he said I was going to be very happy if i wanted the new steels in the chisel line and that the new planes were already in prototypes and that i might get to use one of them before they release. Very cool


----------



## Bertha

^I'll be watching that review.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Dear Gurus,
Am i correct in assuming that the lonely "MTF", on a socket chisel i recently picked up, is the stamp of Milwaukee Tool & Forge?

My eternal gratitude,

~Tony


----------



## stonedlion

As you may recall, I picked up a set of vintage Stanley 750's at auction awhile back -










I apologize for the crappy cell phone pic's, it was all I had handy.

In the last couple of days I finally got around to sharpening them and flattening the backs.

I re-honed them at 20 degrees based on Andy's suggestion. Thanks for the tip Andy, my quick tests on a piece of scrap were almost effortless and I can see they are going to be a real pleasure to use.

What stood out to me about the prior owner's treatment of these gems was his (or her) apparent use of a Worksharp. The telltale swirls are a dead give away.










Even more egregious was the condition of the backs of the smallest two chisels










As part of my evolution in sharpening, I took the plunge and bought some waterstones at Woodcraft, the Norton 1000/4000 grit and a King 6000 grit. They got broken in on these chisels.

Here are the pics on the backs after I was done. I was pleasantly surprised. Again, I apologize for the crappy cell phone camera.


----------



## donwilwol

I like those 750s. Sweet.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice improvements to those irons, Richard!


----------



## vipond33

Good job on the sharpening Richard, only a little bit of the back needs polishing. The photo's are just fine. Will you be re-finishing the handles?
gene


----------



## Mosquito

nice work Richard.


----------



## shampeon

Beautiful 750s, there Richard. But nothing wrong with Worksharp swirls, IMO. Those backs, though, were indelicately handled.


----------



## Bertha

Richard, you are a demon. I'm kind of the same way…I know I'm going to polish the back again, so as long as the business end is glass, I don't sweat it. I agree with Shamp that someone filed those poor babies. 750s are legendary.


----------



## stonedlion

Thanks for the compliments all. I'm not 100% satisfied with the backs, but I plan on giving them attention with every touch-up, over time they should just get better and better. I know I went a bit above and beyond what's needed, but those gouge marks really bothered me and I wanted to address them.

*Gene *- I had considered refinishing the handles, but I think the beat marks on the ends, the finish loss and paint splatter all add character, so for now I will abstain. I bought these intending for them to be users and I think they will work well in that role.


----------



## Bertha

Did anyone get back to Tony? I'm of no help off the top of the melon and I'm pretty sure Tony has Google (and crabs). 
.
Richard, I'm with you on the handles, but this is a relatively new thing for me. I used to like to perfect them; I'm coming around, though.


----------



## donwilwol

tony, does it match the MTF here http://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifacts/milwaukee-tool-forge.html


----------



## Bertha

Don for the win, I'm almost positive. That wrench stamp is one of the more attractive ones that I've seen in a long time.


----------



## AnthonyReed

It turns out it was chlamydia not crabs.

I did see that page Don and i am going to say that it is close enough. I had just not seen the makers mark before.Thank you fellas.

Nothing spectacular:










Some pitting but the business end is functional:


















Sharpened up easy enough:


----------



## donwilwol

now thats a polish!!


----------



## ShaneA

Cool pic Tony.


----------



## lysdexic

That is a great picture.


----------



## chrisstef

Nice pot rack Tony!


----------



## AnthonyReed

I just noticed that it is not square…. my eclipse jig may have a date with a drilling hammer.


----------



## Bertha

Tony for the win.
.
Is that an AllClad copper?
.
Why is no one freaking out about that pristine Luf rule? Good gawd.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Beauty, Tony!


----------



## Boatman53

I thought everyone had one of those rules.


----------



## waho6o9

Pots and pans in the mirrored finish, wow, that's crazy cool
Tony.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Thanks Guys.

No, Al. You have the wrong guy for All-clad. I am the epitome of uncouth and poor taste.

I rescued that rule along with a #36 1/2 and the chisel from the clutches of a surly estate sale agent. Per usual i did not take any before pictures; i always intend to just assess how bad the damage is at first then i get carried away and it is too late once i realize how rude i am being not documenting the process.


----------



## chrisstef

Im the same kinda restore guy Tony. Just lemme see whats goin on here …. Next thing ya know and its out of the evapobath and clean.


----------



## Bertha

Tony, I used to be a kitchen snob, but it's kind of faded. I tend to just grill and gobble now. ScottyB, on the other hands, likes to gobble with his grill. Each to his own. 
.
I love that rule. I'll have to take a picture of my old crank-roll Lufkin. I've got a few Stanley folders but all of them have the brass edge deformed in some way. I have them displayed in my office. I really like Lufkin stuff.


----------



## vipond33

Ran across something interesting today. I was sharpening my favourite daily use chisel, a 2" Marples, when a co-worker asked me to do hers. What could I say, seeing as I had all the gear out. 









Lapping the back I noticed that it was only polishing at the edges with a broad shallow hollow showing in the centre, just like mine. 









Japanese chisels are made quite deliberately this way and I'm wondering if this was done on purpose too (without being advertised) or whether it was a fluke of production. Both tools are about 10 years old. Anyone else see this happening on a western chisel? Usually I get the reverse (convex) and it's a bugger to get rid of.

And oh yes, does everyone have one of these? This was from my grandfather's kit. Off by a 32nd but still good to use. I just pretend it's "metric equivalent".









gene


----------



## OnlyJustME

Unfortunately i do not have one of those yet, gene. If ya come across an extra….


----------



## RGtools

I am coming to it a bit late, but the shiny pic on the bevel of Tonys' new toy is freakin' awesome.


----------



## Tedstor

Gene, 
I have a set of those red/yellow handled Marples. 1/8"-1 1/4". Great tools by the way. My entire set needed minimal flattening, and I don't believe any could be considered convex.


----------



## dbray45

Christmas was good this year - Got chisels--

Set of Sorby paring chisels, a set of gouges, and a couple of cranked neck chisels.

The paring chisels (4 of them) took several hours to flatten and cleanup, the gouges took very little time to sharpen, and the cranked neck chisels took a while as well.

These will help me a lot - been on the wish list for a long time.


----------



## bandit571

Working on a few of the larger, go-to chisels…









We are getting there…


----------



## LeChuck

Here are mine. They are marked "Record. Made in Holland". I bought them used 6 or 7 years ago and they work well. I have not seen them anywhere online. They have unfortunately suffered a bit from a trip on a boat across the Atlantic but nothing that matters.










And here are 2 mortise chisels that belonged to my father, who was a trained, professional woodworker in his youth in France. They were very rusted and recently got a good Evapo-Rust bath…


----------



## AnthonyReed

Those mortise chisels are beauties LeChuck.


----------



## chrisstef

Reviving with Witherby's …..

1/8" pigsticker and 3/8" firmer. Along side is a pair of goodell & pratt dividers.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Nice. Let me know if ya want/need a new handle for it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Excellent resource if you're getting into the socket chisel business…

http://americanwoodworker.com/blogs/techniques/archive/2012/04/27/turning-wood-socket-chisel-handles.aspx


----------



## pjped

Hi, I'm new here (to the thread, and fairly new to LJ) some great chisels here!

Gene, I have had the same experience with a new Marples (NOS?). I got it from Harry J Epstein, and it has the same hollow - I was very happy and assumed someone at Marples was really thinking!

-Pete


----------



## ShaneA

Nice picture Pete. Some shiny stuff in there.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Those are beauties Stef and it looks like they have at least another week's worth of life in them too.

Welcome Pete. Nice setup there.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Thanks for the link Smitty. If you have the handle that needs to be replaced it's even easier since you can just caliper the existing one and skip the paper trick. Great trick for those flea market finds though without the handle.

Hi Pete and welcome. Nice sharpening station there. 
I got that same Irwin Marples chisel set too. HD had them clearanced out for $10 a while back. I just about bought one for everyone i knew that could use them. Great carpenter chisels but i found that the grinds on the top of the chisels were uneven and the handles were slightly turned off of parallel to the blade. Not sure if that was on purpose but the few times i've gotten to use them i've had to make sure that i pay attention to the alignment of the blade since the handles are not round. The steel seems to be good quality though.


----------



## wormil

Highland has the Irwin Marples on clearance for a tad under $10 each. I've heard mixed things about the new ones, I have a set of the English Marples and like them considerably.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Rick these were a different contractor grade chisel with rubberized plastic handles and metal cap for beating. They were $10 for the 4 piece set. Never looked up close at the Blue Chips but i would definitely hope for a better quality in them.


----------



## pjped

Thanks, guys!

I picked this one up for $8-10? at Harry J Epstein Hardware (K.C.) and they are made in England. sides are thick but I got it for working outside.

-Pete










OnlyJustME, now that you mention it the black rubber portion of mine does look off-center to the blade, doesn't it?


----------



## ShaneA

Here is a question for the vintage stanley guys…what is the difference between the 720, 750 and the ones marked "Stanley Made in USA" ? they all seems to have the same blade shape. The 720 & 750 seem to have the same handle shape/finish. The ones marked just "Made in USA" ssem to mostly have lighter colored wood. The 720 seem to be longer bladed, but hard to say. Does anyone know what really separates these 3 models? Are they the same steel? Anyone?


----------



## shampeon

Don't know about the "Made in USA" ones, but the 720s are paring chisels, while the 750s are bench chisels. Paring chisels aren't supposed to be bashed on. They're for shaving thin layers of wood with just hand/arm pressure. The blades are thicker on bench chisels, and the blades are shorter.

If you're starting out, get bench chisels.


----------



## lysdexic

Great question Shane.


----------



## ShaneA

Well I did some surfing to try to find some info, crazy right? Shampeon is correct, the 720 was the paring model, the 750 the bench chisel. I saw somewhere that the un-numbered "made in usa" ones were 750s, just made in a different foundry to accomodate demand. I have several of these ones. Strangely, some seem to be of the 750 length, and some of the 720 length. Still need the 1/8, 3/8, 5/8, 7/8, 2" sizes….you know, the "easy" ones to come by.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Then there are Defiance models (cheap steel, I'm told) and "D" models that all appear to be the same socket chisel designs as the bevel edge #720s and #750s.


----------



## ShaneA

The "D" models do look like them too. Just not as much info out there on the chisels compared to the planes. Chisels seem like just another item to hoard…as if I needed more.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The only chisels in the 1922 No. 34 "Catalogue" I have are Everlasting varieties. #20, #25, #40, #45, #50 and #55. No sockets…


----------



## ShaneA

Whoa, are those metal strike caps? What gives with the # s, do they indicate size?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

From left to right, bevel butt, bevel bench, bevel firmer, square edge firmer, square edge bench, square edge butt


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

There are EDIT: SIX varieties of Everlastings, my friends. I've only seen Bevel Benches in person (unless my shorter benchers, being used, didnt' start as benchers but rather butts…


----------



## ShaneA

Good info Smitty, learned something here today.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Bench chisels are referred to as "Pocket" chisels in the ye olde Catalogue, FWIW…


----------



## chrisstef

Bevel butt, metal cap ?? I seen one of those before.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's the thing. Once the 'Pocket" chisels are shortened through use, there would appear to be no differences between the Pocket and Butt.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Which, of course, can explain why listings are often mixed between Everlasting #40 and #50 chisels.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

These being "thoughts I've thunk…"

I could be radically mistaken.


----------



## ShaneA

Sort of like the 720 & 750s too. Probably hard to tell from shape a short 720 from a 750. I am going to have to get the camera out today, sigh.


----------



## OnlyJustME

I have a couple Everlast. Not sure if they are bench or butt and yes they are metal strike caps.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Matt - oh yeah, the everlastings are 'through-tang.' As you know, practically indestructible.


----------



## bandit571

I think all that I have are just "Mutts"









some have wood handles..









and some don't…


----------



## OnlyJustME

They are Ever lasting. I just recently got them from my pops so i haven't gotten to do much with them. Really like the way they feel weight and shape wise though.


----------



## ShaneA

I got a soft spot for the metal caps. Still reach for my yellow Fat Max Stanleys. They were my "good set" for a long time. I might be a bit abusive to chisels?

I still have plenty of mutts too Bandit.


----------



## chrisstef

^ me too Shane. They love the abuse.


----------



## OnlyJustME

I got plenty of them beatin mutts too for construction work. Don't have to carry around an extra mallet since they can hold up to a metal hammer.


----------



## bandit571

That wide one with the chewed up black handle is by Fuller @ 1-1/4" wide. Fuller?????


----------



## racerglen

Yoh Fuller..
Company was BIG in the 70's 80's , then kinda------ but they're re apearing again..
got a set of their butt chisels I bought in the early 70's..beat me, beat me and sharpen again because my edge is gone !
Don't know how many trips they've had to the grinder but they have been both a POS and a life saver for hack slash ..whataya mean that hinge mortice is too shallow type stuff..and the handles are aparently indistructable. My youngest is getting a handme down, not my dads Edge rights tho..

;-)


----------



## JGM0658

Tired of this wimpy chisels pictures, real men use this…


----------



## waho6o9

Very nice Jorge G.


----------



## JGM0658

You should see the mallet that comes with it…...lol…


----------



## bandit571

Very "slick'! Afraid my two are a little smaller..









ah, but can your's cut corners?


----------



## JGM0658

I think yours is a framing chisel, as you correctly identified that is a slick, sort of like a pairing chisel on steroids. I do have a couple of 1 inch and a 2 inch framing chisels. Maybe I should post the goose neck as well…

As for the corner chisels, I believe we already had our flame war on that topic… ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

I'd like some paring chisels… I've just got my Stanley Bailey (new) bench chisels, and my Narex Mortise chisels. I can get the Bailey chisels to a pretty good edge, but it doesn't seem to like to stay there for very long. When I was making the mortises in my bench legs, I had to sharpen 3-4 times mid-mortise, because it would just start tearing instead of paring…


----------



## bandit571

The Vancamp framer is 1-3/8" wide, a far cry from anyone calling it a slick. But, then again, I can carry it edge down by the handle only, and not have to worry about the metal part sliding off to the ground. Corner Chisel is 7/8" each side. Makes nice big framer mortises.

Don't have a use for anything bigger….


----------



## Planeman40

Chisel gloat!

A week ago I was chasing rust in the shop and got around to my chisel roll. I took it over to the work bench, sat down, and un-rolled it to look over my set of socket firmer chisels. As I was polishing and sharpening I noticed an etched logo on the chisels that I had never bothered to look at closely. It said "James Swan" with a swan on it. All of them did. I had never heard of "James Swan" chisels, so when I was finished, I went to my computer and Googled "James Swan chisels" and was blown away! These things were collector's items and were going for $70 to $100 each in good condition. I now have much more respect for these things.

Now to the interesting part. I bought these chisels at a small junky surplus tool store forty years ago for $2.00 each. The price was so cheap that I bought an entire matched set and then put together a 2nd set as a backup. I also bought some incanel and outcanel James Swan gouges at the same price.

Lord. I wish that surplus tool store was still in business!!

Planeman


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Planeman, we must have pictures!

A forty year gloat in the making. Priceless!


----------



## DaddyZ

Pics Pics !!!!!


----------



## OnlyJustME

At those prices i dont think any store would still be in business. Show 'em if ya got 'em.


----------



## thedude50

I wonder if Stanley will re release the 720s


----------



## Dennisgrosen

yah let the guy´s droool all over the keybords …...
slap a picture in there faces …LOL

Dennis


----------



## donwilwol

That's. A swan song if I ever heard one


----------



## exelectrician

Bertha and others I got "adblocker.com" absolutely hands down the best few dollars (they ask you to pay what ever you think is fair)
To be honest I am so pleased with this program my concience is telling me to double again what I paid in the first place.

FYI there are no ads anywhere on my page as I am looking at it now.


----------



## lysdexic

Swan song - clever


----------



## chrisstef

In a terrible tribute to Charlie Sheen …. Swinning!!!!


----------



## WhoMe

Anyone looking for a set of Older Ashley Isles chisels. They11 piece Ashley Isles chisels look to be in great shape. 
Chisels


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

A nice pair of Everlastings in sizes not typically found: 5/8" and 7/8"... Very cool, and these fill out my set.


----------



## donwilwol

that made me gasp a little Smit!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Family pic!


----------



## donwilwol

now you're just showing off!


----------



## TechRedneck

Nice family Smit!

I always look for chisels at the antique stores and markets… Never see these.

Just love the shape of them.


----------



## wormil

What's your guy's opinion on hollow grinding mortising chisels? I picked up this set but they need a grinding.


----------



## donwilwol

I hollow grind all my chisels.

Those need some love.


----------



## donwilwol

wrong window!!


----------



## jman75

I stopped by Lowes here in Virginia and they had the Kobalt chisels and I got one to try and was impressed with the off the shelf cutting sharpness of it. Steel shank all the way through and feels good in the hands. I like em for the price!
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a128/callmej75/Screenshot_2013-01-22-21-51-51.png!


----------



## Boatman53

Hey Smitty, nice family photo. I only have three in my set but the prize is an 1/8" one. I'll have to take a family photo tomorrow.
Jim


----------



## AnthonyReed

Congrats Smitty.


----------



## wormil

Yep, they need some attention but that's why they were cheap. Well that and it's a brand no one's heard of, Geo B Curtiss, which was a NY hardware store circa the mid-1800's. No idea who manufactured them or if they'll be any good until I try them. I've been holding off posting pics until I clean and sharpen them but here's one.

1/4", 3/8", 5/8"


----------



## AnthonyReed

Very nice firmer chisels Rick. Lots of life in those. Great score.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Rick, those grinds look like I done them… And Jim, I've only seen the 1/8" Everlasting in pictures, and it's pretty amazing to see that full metal cap on so fine a chisel body. Very cool.

Jman, you missed the ! at the front of your pic link.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Rick, they look like firmer chisels not mortising chisels.


----------



## BRAVOGOLFTANGO

Great finding a chisel thread on here when I'm in the market. Considering the Narex Mortise Chisels from Lee Valley. Local Woodcraft store vendor recommended this brand over their best set which was impressive, but very expensive to say the least. Figured $75 was great for an entire set of quality mortise chisels.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=66737&cat=1,41504

I'd love to find some kind of guide for woodworking chisels, which to use when kind of thing.


----------



## wormil

Actually that's a question I was going to ask, I never understood the difference between mortise and firmer chisels. Both are used with a mallet.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Mortise chisels are really thick for heavy pounding and chopping out holes/mortises.

















Firmer chisel are like bevel edge chisels but without bevel edges.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks like those kobalts are bevel edged, kinda butt in length. Looks like they'd take some serious abuse, for sure. The flare'd 'ferrule' makes it seem they'd be held with a fist, for pounding, don't it?


----------



## Mosquito

Bravo, I've got the set of Narex mortise chisels. They've been fine so far. I've got no real complaints on them yet.


----------



## chrisstef

Excellent set there Smitty. I also like those handles, bulbous and stout.

I like those firmer's too Rick. Im working on collecting a set of Witherby firmers. 1/2" and 3/8" accomplished. Long road ahead of me though.


----------



## WhoMe

OJM, thanks for the clarification on the firmer versus mortise chisels. I always wondered that too. Now I know.


----------



## helluvawreck

The lowly chisel is perhaps one of the most ancient of all of the woodworking tools. However, when it is in the hands of a capable human being it is still capable of doing the most delicate of things. It is next to the plane, one of the most amazing basic tools ever developed by woodworkers. What would we do without the chisel?

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


----------



## OnlyJustME

I've seen what people do without chisels. They hammer on the back of plane irons.


----------



## BRAVOGOLFTANGO

Thanks Mosquito, that's great feedback and with my Stanley bevel edge chisels (through tang) it'll be a good add to the collection.


----------



## ShaneA

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Stanley-1-Bevel-Side-Bench-Chisel-INV5121-/190789605694?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6bf2593e

A 1" 750 "buy it now" $9.99 Even though I have a 1" 720 I am still tempted.


----------



## Boatman53

Finally got a moment to share my everlast family. 3/4" ,3/8" , and 1/8" I use the 1/8" the most, usually to get caulking out of deck seams.


















Jim


----------



## donwilwol

Ok Shane, now I need a 1\2", 1\4", 3\4", 5\8"...... damn it!!


----------



## ShaneA

Did you get it Don? I still "need" the 1/8, 5/8, 7/8 and 2"...you know the easy ones to find cheap.


----------



## donwilwol

Yep, .... first one. I said I wasn't going to do it and I'd just go buy a set.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jim, very nice!

Don, Congrats on the #750, always good to have a goal.


----------



## jman75

Thanks for the save Smitty! So far the Kobalt is doing well…we'll see how they hold up in the long run


----------



## chrisstef

Don, thats a pretty interesting way to get money for those chisels you wanted? To each their own i guess. Good luck man.


----------



## bhog

^ LOL


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Did that chisel have Stanley stamped in the iron, Don? I couldn't tell by the pic…


----------



## JesseTutt

Chisels aren't they what you use to cut a nail off with? Or cut a piece of concrete? Now that you have gasped and shaken your head I will say just kidding!

I have a old set of Craftsman chisels and wish I knew how to use them better. Any time I try to cut a mortis it just does not come out right. Someday I will find someone local who will spend a couple of hours and teach me everything chisel and then I will be expounding their virtues.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm across the river from you, Jesse. We may need to talk. But then, I haven't chop mortises by hand (yet); it's one key joinery techniques I still depend on electricity to help with.


----------



## ShaneA

Smitty? No hand chopped for you, that surprises me.


----------



## bandit571

Smitty leaves that chore to me….









This keeps up, I'll have to make another mallet….


----------



## Mosquito

you're not really missing out on much…


----------



## donwilwol

Not sure about the stamp yet Smitty.

So I have a question. I get the difference in the 750 vs the 720. And I see the difference in the Everlast. I don't understand why the everlast seem to sell for more.

What are the advantages over the everlast or 750/702? I've now got one of each.

I did a little "look see what I had" over the week end.


----------



## ShaneA

Looks like Don's chisel are marked w/traditional 750 method I can make out the Stanley, the wide space, then Made in the USA. Between, I assume it to say 750.

Seems like the 720s fetch the most to me, all are kinda spendy.


----------



## chrisstef

^ Apparently Don cleaned up with the car wash.









Stanley
Made in USA
Red handle

No numbers spotted. ??


----------



## ShaneA

I asked about those several pages back Stef…had to break down and googlize it. Best I could find is they are in the "unmarked" 750/720 line. Apparently coming out of another foundry to meet demand. Have a few in the 750 & 720 size. You can pick them off a little cheaper typically, but not much.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"you're not really missing out on much…"

That's what I've gathered. That, and I don't have any mortising chisels.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Why do everlasts sell for more? A complete guess is a larger base of customers for #40s over the #750s because a number of folks don't understand socket chisels. I mean, why buy a chisel with handles that come out? ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

First mortises I chopped by hand I used my regular bench chisels (Stanley Bailey's). It wasn't a whole lot of fun… not going to lie.

I haven't completely chopped a mortise with my Narex Mortise chisels. I only cleaned up a couple drilled mortises with them.


----------



## bandit571

Seems I have a little blog about chopping a few of them Mortises. Drilling them? No. Router? No. A couple chisels? Eh…....Could be.


----------



## lysdexic

*" But then, I haven't chop mortises by hand (yet);*"

Plunge routah for me thus far. I have been afraid to say that until just now.


----------



## dbray45

I bought a set of Traditional Woodworker extra strong mortising chisels - one of the few that are in standard measure versus metric. They cut clean and straight. I tried making mortises by drilling with forstner bits and them cleaning them out - too much work. Now, I just measure and scribe the location, make the lines a little deeper with a paring chisel and in a couple of minutes with the mortising chisel, I am done.

A note - when using these chisels, be careful near the board ends, it is easy to pop out the piece of end grain with the chisel, takes a bit of practice either gluing it back or not popping it out.

http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/Mortise-Chisels-Extra-Strong-Made-in-Germany/products/645/


----------



## donwilwol

I got my new &50/720 1" chisel. For those asking, its got what left of Stanley (only the LEY) is left and under that was "Made in USA" but only the "N USA" is left, but its on the side of the flange (part that holds the handle) and not the face. It seem to be in excellent shape.

Now for the question. I see these sell for any wheres from $9.99 to $80 a piece. Is there a difference (assuming the same size) ?

I want to get a set of the 720's together, but the chisel thing is still new to me.


----------



## ShaneA

Is the chisel "numbered" Don? The pics by the seller weren't that great, but it looked like a 750. I have no idea on the price variance, kinda like planes in the sense sometimes the seller has unrealistic expectations. But, sometimes they get it. I tend to spend way more time looking for chisels. Still need the 1/8 and 5/8, I have gotten luckily recently with the 3/8 and 7/8.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The 1/8" everlasting will be tough, but is the last one I'm even curious about.

I have all the #750s needed, even though they're reissues. Love 'em, of course.


----------



## donwilwol

After clean up and sharpening


----------



## AnthonyReed

Nicely done Don. You cleaned up the damage at the striking end of the handle too?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice job there, Yoda! The Force is strong in this one…


----------



## donwilwol

No Tony, I just gave the handle a light sanding and a coat of blo. It'll be getting hit again.


----------



## bobasaurus

I recently received a fantastic set of Lie Nielsen A2 chisels and have been using them to make this fancy picture frame (a copy of a similar one here on lumberjocks):



http://imgur.com/O4dwy


Here are some shots of the chisels:


























These things are amazing, especially after using my crappy Irwins for many years previously. They hold an edge for a very long time and seem very well balanced. A few of the handles popped off on me, but they're now holding well after a few mallet blows during use. They maybe don't have the same charm as vintage chisels, but I'm extremely happy with them.


----------



## ShaneA

That is a good looking set Bob.

Don, that is a mysterious chisel. Weird that the labeling would be worn out like that. Given the space between the Stanley and the made in USA…there were definitely numbers there, at some point. How long is the blade? The hard part to me, is telling a well used 720 from a hardly used 750. Either way, it is a good buy.


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## RGtools

Family photo day…though Bob seems to have beat me. I finally got my gouge sharpened and I grabbed a 1" LN. They tweaked the proportions a bit on the 1" and can I just say, it is immensely satisfying.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Random pic: Hurray for Permaloid!


----------



## lysdexic

Is that what you call it? How do you know all this stuff?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Walt Q, Baby!!! He knows everything that Patrick won't tell…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

In 'custom' sewn case, no less…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Auction find, in case you wondered. Same place the chest shaped object came from.


----------



## mochoa

Does anyone need some large hard maple dowels for tool handles? If so PM and I'll send them to you. Otherwise they will probalby end up in the fireplace. They are 1.5" and 2" diameter.

Heck I can send you the threaded one to if you think you can use it.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Smitty you could take pictures of HF quality tools and make them look long lived and ready for more. Wizards, the lot of you…

Walt Q? Brass City Records and Tools?

Mauricio you will need those as soon as you burn them.


----------



## mochoa

Thats exactly right Tony. I burned some red oak cut offs from by bench and then when I was looking for some scrap for a plug….. Doh!


----------



## Mosquito

Mauricio, how long is the 1.5" piece?


----------



## mochoa

Sorry Mos, Jim's got dibs on that one. The longer 2" once actually has a hole drilled across one end of it so the other one is actually longer. Its about 8" long. Want it?


----------



## chrisstef

Smitty - how do you like those 60's? Theres a handul of them available out at the local tool consignment shop for like $2 each. Maybe 5 of them, all seemed to be 1/2" and smaller.

Why do i love chisels so damn much?


----------



## Mosquito

how large of a hole drilled in it? I might be interested in that one if I could use it for the end of a screw


----------



## mochoa

its a 1/2" hole drilled about an inch down.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yes, Brass City Tools. Read it every Monday afternoon, at the least for an education. His prices are very fair, products excellent. Learned much from Walt; I'm a customer.

The 'lands' on these are wildly erratic. Some wind down to nothing, others grow towards the tip. Very loose QC. But, like Al says, the feel is good, nice heft, and can take a good pounding.


----------



## thedude50

Well guys I am about half way through my matched tote build for the sw 750 set i got new. The Cocobolo sure makes a nice look on these. I am going to the bay area on the 16th to see this guy teach how to use leather in your projects. This is part of the period furniture builders society and i am hoping he can show me how to add the leather to my chisel handles. I am going packing leather knives punches and all my leather tools just to see if I can pick the master craftsman's brain. If any of you guys would like to go pm me and ill send you an invitation.


----------



## GEOwen

Two chisel stories…

In the mid 60s when I was young and ignorant I was also lucky enough to pick up several of the Swedish-manufactured chisels which Sears marketed as their top-of-the-line Craftsman series. (Manganese alloy, clear plastic handles with blue at the top.) My thinking at that time didn't go any further than "If I break it, the word "Craftsman" means they'll replace it for free." These chisels spoiled me for using anything of lesser quality. Only 20 years later did I know enough to appreciate how flat the backs were even when untouched from the factory. By then, of course, the 1/2" chisel had long since hidden itself somewhere. I wonder if anybody knows who manufactured these for Sears and whether they're still in business.

Just a few years ago, #3 daughter decided to cancel wedding. No honeymoon in Prague needed, but the lodging and airfare for two had already been paid for. Only cost a couple hundred bucks to switch names on tickets so wife and I had an unplanned-for week in the Czech Republic. Adding spice to the trip was the fact that a woodworking magazine had just compared several chisel lines and concluded that a couple of lines were arguably even better quality than the Czech Narex chisels, but that Narex was unequaled on a per-dollar basis.

I knew what I wanted as souvenirs of the trip, but there were no hardware stores within walking distance of the central city, and the hardware section of department stores offered only expensive German items and same Chinese items I could have bought near home. So, taking light rail 6 or 7 stops out into the countryside brought us to EuroMart, which feels a lot like Lowes or Home Depot plus a nice cafeteria. Believe it or not, they were having a 20% off sale on Narex chisels!!!

I spent at least 2 hours sorting through their stock to get one each of every English and metric size they stocked. (Yes, there's overlap between certain English and metric sizes, but I was picturing how the two sets would look each on its own magnet bar.) Most of the chisels had blue lettering on the blades, but the older-looking ones at the bottom of most bins had red lettering and I went with red wherever possible Total spent amounted to $209 and that included a few non-chisel items so the chisels probably averaged a smidge less than 5 bucks apiece.

Would take picture, but most of garage is packed for our pending move from California to Florida and all the boxes look alike.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

GE, those a great stories! Sure would be nice to find that 1/2" size, wouldn't it? I'd have to think ebay could help someday. And an American in the Czech Republic, scarfing through the chisel bin for 2+ hours must have been confusing to the guys in the store… priceless. Hope you post a picture here when you get settled in the Sunshine State.


----------



## GEOwen

Smitty: Still have hopes of coming across that 1/2 incher as I work my way through the garage. ("Trash, donate, trash, Ebay, trash, Craigslist, trash, garage sale, trash….") A lady in Salt Lake City who's opening a scrapbooking store got my eight-tier Rotabin on Ebay for only $300 but it's too big and heavy to be worth moving. Ditto for the old Brunswick pool table where the one-piece, inch-thick slate should fetch more than the one bid on the Rotabin.

Yes, I did have several EuroMart clerks and even customers come over and want to know whether there was a problem they could help me with. Not sure whether they were confused, but one of them was surprised to see an English-language article praising the Czech-made Narex chisels. Then, he was delighted when I gave him the magazine to keep for himself.

Also yes on doing a photo of the Czech chisels from Florida. Should look good because the magnet bars are the long black ones with birch inlay that you can see wherever Henckels Zwillingswerk kitchen knives are displayed. (Yeah, when the local Linens and Things went out of business, I was the guy who bought and disassembled the whole display case just to get those snazzy magnet bars.)


----------



## bandit571

Not sure IF any of them Fancy Stanley chisels would hold up to hitting a jaw on a vise. Some Dummy missed the wood, and bounced off a metal vise jaw.. Looks like I have some sharpening to do.









The vise, and the chisel. Seems I was chopping a dovetail in an apron









And one "chop" went a little too deep. Lucky I had a "back-up" on hand. Second Dovetail was set up just a little bit higher….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

'Fancy Stanley chisels,' Bandit? Seriously?

#40 everlastings evolved to #50 models, then into the #60 Permaloids shown above. The story of the Everlasting chisel embodies the steady decline in quality toolmaking in America through the 1980s.

These are the chisels I would choose to use if I were chopping a dovetail on or around an iron vise.


----------



## donwilwol

you could also get smart and make a set of wooden jaw covers. Your chisels will tanks you for it.


----------



## thedude50

or you could buy a woodworking vise I have a few small ones I may be willing to part with one of them


----------



## JGM0658

I got this e mail from David Savage talking about chisels… here is his opinion:

"The challenge I have is that I feel that this is quality steel takes a good edge but not as keen as that offered by high carbon steel even cold rolled high carbon steel. I don't see the advantage of holding an edge for a long time as being a great one in a professional workshop as a skilled maker you will be able to put an edge on a blade in less than a minute I do see as a disadvantage the fact that these blades don't take the keenest edge.
For that reason alone I would not be buying them. Sorry Mr L N."

What do you all think about this? I agree with him, my Japanese chisels do not hold an edge for long sessions, but they do get a very keen edge. I spend far more time sharpening the A2 blades for my planes (even if I only do a micro bevel) than I do with the chisels.


----------



## donwilwol

I haven't tried the A2 or other new irons yet, but I agree. I just don't get the hype.


----------



## lysdexic

Agreed. I have a lot of A2 and I am beginning to doubt the virtue.


----------



## dbray45

I have both A2 steel blades and O1. All of these blades sharpen very well. The A2 blades take an hour or two longer to sharpen but they stay sharp for a much longer duration.

One of my pet peaves is to get started doing something like jointing an edge of wood for gluing and have to stop, take apart my plane and sharpen it because it is tearing out the wood or start chiseling something and have all kinds of tearout because the blade is dull. Doesn't matter if it takes 30 seconds or 2 hours to sharpen. Once I have the blade set I like to leave it that way and do the job at hand.

Another annoyance that I am finding is the micro bevel (on either side of the edge). I seem to be getting a cleaner surface without it.

All this being said, I will be moving to A2 steel in the future where I can.


----------



## lysdexic

David, An hour or two? Really?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's too long to sharpen. Seriously. I have an A2 on a plane, and it's a pain…


----------



## 1yeldud1

I've been a tool maker for almost 40 years. A-2 is used for trim dies at our diecast plant. it is a very tough steel but holds an edge well once sharpened - but A2 can be brittle if you were to strike a hard surface (such as a vise) with a hammer blow. "O1" is much more forgiving but it is a "softer"steel will sharpen quicker but will need to be resharpened more often - a trade off.


----------



## lysdexic

Smitty, do you understand why I just wasn't happy with my oilstones? With A2 irons and chisels it just took forever. THe Diasharps are much more appropriate.


----------



## CL810

What is the best way to fix this?

I'd like to make this Stanley chisel into a user









but I've never seen one "bent" like this. Going towards the tip, starting about 3/4" from the tip, a gap develops that ends up being .005" at the edge.









Sorry the pic sucks but its the best one I took. Would you just flatten it with stone, sandpaper? Or is there another way to fix it?


----------



## ShaneA

So the chisel is concave along it's length? Is that correct?


----------



## ShaneA

Some handles for my stanleys. Zebrawood. Going to be hard/expensive to fill out the entire set. May not be able to justify that. the 5/8, 1/8, and 2" are missing and the most expensive ones, I can't bring myself to spend more on vintage, than I can get new semi-premium for.


----------



## lysdexic

You the man, Shane. Very handsome.


----------



## CL810

*Shane *- I believe the answer is yes. If you lay the chisel down with the back against the table, the edge rises up, away from the table.


----------



## waho6o9

Beautiful work Shane!

I'd be leery of smacking those with a mallet. I'd hate to see you split 
up a fine handle.


----------



## chrisstef

Shane, dont be a kitty. Hit those chisels.


----------



## ShaneA

Stef, I am going to be hitting them, no doubt on that. I can always make a new one…: )

It will be acceptable to shoot those handles with Lacquer, right? I made an idiot move while cleaning up the chisels. I had done the handles first, then while cleaning up the metal, my grimey hands were getting them all dirty. Since Zebrawood is a kind of open pore wood, the dirt was collecting on/in them too easily. So I was thinking a clear coat would help that out some.

I also handled the only vintage tang chisel I have, an old 1/8" Tillotson (sp?). It did not go smoothly. I did not get the hole drilled deep enough and I was a little rough on the ferrule in the disassembly process. However, I kept beating on it, and kept beating on it, and finally I got it close enough. It has a walnut handle, took a tremendous licking, and is still ok. So I am not too worried about the Zebrawood.

I am working on a set of Swans now, new handles for those to follow.

CL, I have no idea how to fix that chisel. Looks like it is a long paring one too, is it a 720?


----------



## CL810

*Shane *- No numbers on it but it fits the earlier comments about the 720/750's without numbers.


----------



## dbray45

Had the flu and haven't been back here -

Lysdexic - If the blade has a chip or the edge is not straight A2 steel takes a while to clean up. As a cleanup of an edge I expect 10-15 minutes to polish it back up. I do this every few months. The O1 steel gets resharpened about every third time I use them.

If the back of the chisel is concave, flatten the back at a slight angle so that only the last 1/8" or so is flat. Same principal for the Japanise chisels. Some say this adds strength to the chisel, don't know.


----------



## Mosquito

Just noticed that Rockler had the new Stanley 750 4-piece set on sale for $100 but they're sold out now. Was thinking about buying the smaller set, and filling in later, if I like 'em. Currently the only chisel I've got that wouldn't be duplicated by that set is a 1 1/4" chisel.


----------



## chrisstef

Mos - the more i use those new 750's the more i like them as a bench chisel. Not real keen on chopping with them but for paring … stef likey.

Stumbled upon a little antiques shop in my travels today …. Witherby 1/4" and 3/8" bevel edge action. $30.









Anyone ever seen a Witherby stamp like this before?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Took a lot of work, but the 5/8" Everlasting is ready for action. And a sharp chisel is a happy chisel!


----------



## waho6o9

Looks like a mirror Smitty.

That's the way to do it.


----------



## Brit

Carrying on from waho6o9's post…

Money for nothin' and chicks for free. (Dire Straits)

Smitty does shiny, Oh yeah!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Only where it counts, Andy.

Waho, it's almost to the point I need two images so as to discern one. I need shop glasses. The prescription kind.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Very nice Smitty!


----------



## lysdexic

If you calmly stare into the reflection, on the left hand side, you can faintly see the image of Alice Cooper.


----------



## AnthonyReed

I am troubled by my fondness of the demented writings that emanate from the inmates of this site.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I calmly stared at the reflection for a while, but then was pulled to the kerf marks still evident and wonder if I have to remove the hinge and joint the edge of the piece…


----------



## Brit

Tony - You should write a book. I love it when you get all eloquent and erudite on us.

I don't know what Scott's smokin', but I can't see Alice Cooper. Alice in Wonderland maybe.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Andy - I am barely able to read a book, let alone write one. I assure you that any musings of mine that might appear sapient are merely the use of a thesaurus or pure happenstance. I am a numpty to be sure. I do however find solace in being of some amusement to a man of your intellectual stature. So thanks for that.

Were it that i knew what he was smoking i would attempt to ship it to him by the bale in efforts to assure a steady stream of … well, enlightened observations.


----------



## Gshepherd

Been a while since my last vist, but well worth it looking at all those fine chisels….... Nice to see some pretty fine lookin Everlastings and Don's spare tire (tires) as well…......


----------



## AnthonyReed

Hiya Gshep! Good to see ya, i hope all is well with you.


----------



## lysdexic

Here is some insight for ya Tony….

You are more full of ******************** than I am.

Sapient. I haven't seen that word since I cheated on the SAT.


----------



## CL810

*ScottyB*- Now *that *I understood! ;-)


----------



## Brit

Tony you are a proponent of the English language whether you need a Thesaurus or not. Scott mentioned your use of sapient, but happenstance is another great word you don't hear much these days. Words are like forum threads, if you don't keep using them they die.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit - love the dire straits reference. You are a sultan sir, a sultan of swing.

I think we need some more in chisel techniques besides the ones that draw blood, i got those on lock. Is the way Smitty is cutting for hinge mortises the preferred way? The more i handle my chisels the more i wonder about my techniques.

Lys & Tony - you guys keep the thesaurus and ill keep the urban dictionary. I gotta go braid the clowns wig.


----------



## ShaneA

You mean there are chisel techniques? I basically just try to keep my hand out of the direct line of the edge. Works for me about half the time, the other half I am cussing trying to wipe the blood off my projects and tools. Chisels and strangely enough, flush cut saws have drawn the most blood from me.


----------



## chrisstef

Im with ya on all accounts Shane. Am i talkin outta my a$$ askin for actual techniques? I dunno.

Right now im hacking a box together and need/want to chisel out a stopped dado for the bottom. Should i mark and pare away? Should i chop and then pare? I dont have a 1/4" iron for my router plane so thats out.

How would you fellers attack it.

Dont make me use the routah. Please.


----------



## donwilwol

My technique would be chip, par, swear, chip, par swear, wipe up some blood, swear some more, break out the r….. nope not true, I'm a dedicate hand tool guy.


----------



## ShaneA

Is it for the DT box? I know the TS is a possibilty, you would just need to plug the end grain on a couple of the sides. I know, I know…not the purest answer. I truely lack the depth of hand tool knowledge to be help.


----------



## donwilwol

It actually sounds like you need a #45.

but along Shane's line, you could set up a stop on the TS and just do the final with the chisel.

Edit. Ok Don, finish the thought. Stop before the break through and you won't have to plug.


----------



## chrisstef

Lol Don. Seems to be the path im heading. Im really trying to do all the joinery by hand on this one and butcher as much cherry as possible. Working out a lot of new things for me so this ones about the journey.

Shane - yea for a DT box. Sounds like a good opportunity to come along for the ride and you know the rules. Ass, gas, or grass. No one rides free brah.

Heres a sneak peek at the massacre:


----------



## OnlyJustME

I think it was common practice to saw cut each side of the dado the chop and pare. That's how i would attempt it any how.
Them Dove tails aint half bad. nothing a little caulk wont fix. lol


----------



## Mosquito

I'm not sure a #45 would work for a stopped dado. I mean, you might be able to do part of it, depending on the length, but it probably wouldn't work too well.

Whenever I do stopped dado's I use the layout square and a marking knife to heavily mark the area, then chisel at an angle into that knife cut all the way around, then repeat until I'm to my depth, then chisel out the waste (I usually use the router plane, but you said you don't have a 1/4" iron)


----------



## chrisstef

Lol Matt. You should see the other sides. Its a big enough caulk job where i might need to sub it out. Ill keep this one in the shop or on my desk. Basically where no one will see it. I will church it up with a spanish cedar lining though.


----------



## Mosquito

I will church it up with a spanish cedar lining though.

lol, there's a reason this one was lined with maple ;-)


----------



## donwilwol

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/25555

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/joinery/stopped-dados-by-hand


----------



## chrisstef

What ya cant see wont hurt ya Mos. Stef approved.

Don - gonna take a peek.

I pared away little by little then flipped it bevel down and used it like a plane.


----------



## donwilwol

I'm still wondering why you couldn't use the #45 like you would a router plane. Chisel the sides and ends and gouge out the center with the 45? I've never tried it, but it seems to work in my dream. Maybe a little cloudy, but that's normal.


----------



## chrisstef

Unless its cloudy with a chance of 45's … Ands its rainin …. Im outta luck on a 45 Don


----------



## bandit571

And to think, there is a #71 sitting around unused…..

Hinges: Mark with square and Utility Knife for the outlines. Chisel and hammer- three whacks, move a bit, three whacks, continue until you reach the other end of hinge mortise. Keep the whacks the same in number and how hard you hit, this controls the depth of the mortise. Pare out the waste, check the fit, predrill for screws, install the hinge when ready.

No need for any bloodshed, it is only a very shallow mortise, open on one side at that. Now, IF it were a might deeper









It MIGHT take a little longer to chop out, still no blood. Even the dovetails work better without any spillage on them









Do NOT use any part of you as a "stop" for a chisel cut.


----------



## donwilwol

there's always a chance …...


----------



## lysdexic

Don, I am always impressed by your ability to reference information.


----------



## chrisstef

Little shallow but fairly level. 









+1 to Lys. Great info Don. The schwarz strikes again.


----------



## donwilwol

Stef, its not deep enough.

Scott, I always wonder what you're really thinking.


----------



## ShaneA

Emphasis on the word "really" lol…


----------



## Brit

I always wonder what he's drinking.


----------



## mochoa

You guys and your Thesaurus words reminded me of one of my favorite movie scenes.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Don, too much sole of a #45 in front of the iron… Reach the end of the stopped dado, sole noses up, iron no longer makes contact with the stuff. Been there, tried it, failed. Got both sizes of router plane so it wouldn't happen again.

-Stopped dado cuts, by hand, are the #1 reason to get a #71/#72 router plane
-Hinge mortises are the #1 reason to get a #271 router plane

As far as 'proper technique,' I'm not one to teach by any stretch. I've done dados, stopped and regular, a bunch of times. Used only chisels, chisels and #71 router, backsaw and chisel, backsaw and #71 router, and finally with a EC Simmons combination backsaw and #71 router. Those ways meet the 'five ways to do any operation' doctrine, and I prefer using the Simmons to set depth of cut on sidewalls, then remove the waste with the router.

For hinge mortises, I made several cuts with the chisel to break the surface. Like Bandit says, be consistent. Once it was down to a level that didn't' require much more waste removal, I went to the #271 to finish as a uniform depth.

One thing I will say about the chiseling I done over the weekend… The Everlasting was heavy to use and balance when I held it low to the end. Completely different feel that the SW re-issues. Almost felt like I was going to drop it a couple times. Not good or bad, but an indication (rationalization??) that more than one set of bench chisels is probably a good thing, as one or the other excels at a task that the other may not gain favor.


----------



## lysdexic

Scott, I always wonder what you're really thinking.

That's perfect.

But what I REALLY meant in this situation was - I am always impressed by your ability to reference information. Your, sir, are an asset.


----------



## chrisstef

Smitty - very nice run down of the angles of attack. In kicking myself tgat i dont have the proper cutter on the 72. Guess ill use that as motivation.

I played around with it a little more last night employing the technique Mos explained and tge article Don posted and i was fairly pleased with the outcome. I guess if the dados dont work out so well i could glue blocks under the bottom for support. I went to a 1/4" depth.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

RE: the article posted that is the Schwarz cutting sidewalls with a backsaw. My challenge in implementing that technique is depth of sawcut. How do you know when to stop? If you want consistency, say, same dado depth on two or three dados in each side of a carcase, I ain't that good.

So I'd cut too shallow, and end up chiseling anyway.

I loke the Simmons combo for that reason. (Good for tenons, too) But this is a chisel thread, not a saw thread.


----------



## chrisstef

Yea Smit there was no saw usage on my end. There was no way that i would be able to get a consistent depth i just aint got the squills for that yet. I used a mortising gauge to lay out the a razor knife to get the depth. Pare from the inside toward the cut line on all aides the pared away the hump in the middle. Proof will be in the pudding though. We'll see. Needless to say i think this is a good exercise for my skill building.


----------



## Tim457

Stef, if you don't want to buy a blade for your router plane or wait for it, the poor mans router is what you want. Not sure if that was in the links Don posted or not. Basically you put a chisel through a piece of scrap wood to hold it at the right angle and depth. Poof, you have a router plane of the width you want. Video shows tips on making it.


----------



## chrisstef

Good info Tim. I debated on making a chisel plane but lack the time or ambition at this point lol. If this was a "real" project and i hadnt butchered the tails i would certainly explore your option on the poor mans router. I still may. Ill be sure to keep ya posted.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Stef should likely the method of repurposing a large hex wrench… Flatten the base, grind the primary bevel and hone… Presto, a 1/4" router iron.


----------



## Tim457

Stef, this isn't a chisel plane it's a quick and dirty tool that works pretty well. Just drill an angled hole slightly smaller than your chisel width and drive the chisel through and you're done. Gives you a consistent depth of cut since the depth adjustment works like a wooden plane. Not going to last forever but gets the job at hand done.

Edit: nice Smitty. What do you put that in to get your depth adjustment? Thread it and put a nut and washer on it?


----------



## shampeon

Trying something a little different with this 750's handle:

















Padauk bulb. We'll see if I like it.


----------



## ShaneA

That is "a little" different. You will have to follow up with your thoughts on it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Shamp, I really like that! Let us know if it's a fun to use as it appears!


----------



## pastahill

Talking about big irons. I found this one and i dont know for what use it was, but i have to have it, because it lookes cool and it´s big. The overall measuremets are a little over 20 inches and the ironwidth is 2inches. It was sharpend on all 3 front sides but now it´s dull and rusty. The ferule is missing and the handle is cracked. The whole thing looks very amburant for me. Anybody an idea what it is, maybe for debarking planks instead of a drawknife?


----------



## donwilwol

Interesting take Ian. Let us know how they work out.

Pasta, that's more like a shovel!

My latest. Time to think of a rack for the inevitable Stanley set


----------



## ShaneA

Nice, generations of life left in that one Don.


----------



## Boatman53

Shamp, I think you will like it. This is one of my favorite chisels. 








Two inch width. I use it all the time for trimming bungs and paring. Yours looks very nice. It will keep you from pounding on them with a mallet.
Jim


----------



## shampeon

A more traditional handle for this Pexto. Mystery tropical hardwood from the bargain bin at Woodcraft (maybe goncalo). The shape was inspired by this Challenger chisel I got as part of a lot.


----------



## racerglen

Now that's a nice piece of work !
Neat shape and the leather as well..like it !


----------



## AnthonyReed

Whoa Ian! Supremely nice job, w/leather none the less.

How is it that you did not post a blog/project of it being constructed? Man that is nice!


----------



## shampeon

How is it that you did not post a blog/project of it being constructed? Man that is nice!

Laziness, I guess.

Thanks, gentlemen.


----------



## ShaneA

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230947448536?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

The end of the quest for a full set of 11 vintage Stanleys draws nearer the end. The search and cost for the last 2 will be daunting and maybe too costly. I think I got a good snag on this 5/8" 720 for about $19 delivered.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Congrats Shane. Which are the last two you need?


----------



## ShaneA

1/8" and 2"...there is a 2" ending tomorrow morning. A bit ugly, but may have to bid on it. It is a bit under the radar now @$25. But, we all now how things change quickly in the last 2 minutes.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

1/8" is a trick… I'd love to have one in the Everlasting, but it ain't happening…


----------



## ShaneA

Yeah, I don't see me w/the 1/8" either. Usually go over $100. I try to draw the end of the vintage line, when they exceed the cost of new premium.


----------



## lysdexic

So, my learned colleagues, what makes the 720's so desirable?


----------



## ShaneA

The 720 was the paring model. Not sure of any metallurgy differences. Basically some long 750s, I guess. No expert here. I have a mix of the 720 & 750 style. Seems like the 720 & Everlasts are the most costly. But the selling prices are all over the place on Ebay.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Is there something to be done about this banana or is it a goner?


----------



## DaddyZ

Anthony^

Sharpen it up & put it to use, I doubt it would be an issue in use, most only use the last few inches anyhow…

Straighten - stick it between two sawhorses & tap with a hammer till straight to your liking…but I would just use as is…


----------



## chrisstef

Ive got a chisel with a lil banaa to it as well Tony, i dont think it really effects its performance unless i wanted to mortise with it. Even then i just cock it at an angle that looks straight.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Message received. Thank you guys.


----------



## shampeon

Tony: it'd be much worse if the chisel was bending the other way. You just have an extremely subtle crook-neck chisel.


----------



## RGtools

Try to get the first 3 inches flat Tony. The rest will just give you something to lever against control your paring jobs.


----------



## chrisstef

Tony's used to working with 3 inches. No sweat RG.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Hahaha ^ Funny, funny ba5tard!!!!

Thanks Ian & Ryan.


----------



## ShaneA

Bad news…my 5/8" 720 arrived today from the ebay seller. A little more mushroomed than I would like. Cheap handle looks to be epoxied on. But, that ain't the kicker. It is a 3/4", already got a 3/4" 750. It was a great price for a 5/8"...but it ain't a 5/8" : (

Sent seller a message. Not too happy at this point. Even if I keep it, going to take a lot of work to get it where I want it.


----------



## OnlyJustME

That sucks so bad ShaneA. Could just grind the edges a bit and make it a 5/8".


----------



## AnthonyReed

Sorry to hear that Shane.


----------



## bandit571

Looky what I found at the Bi Blue Box tonight:









For all of three dollars, a nice wide tile. Nice and flat, too! Suggested lube for this stone? Oil? Water/soap?

Iron is 2-3/8' wide, by almost 1/8" thick from Union Mfg. Co. of New Britain CT.

@ $3, I think I can get a few more of these, if they were to wear out a bit…


----------



## chrisstef

Check out Tony pimpin it at the mall food court.

Cali Gilfs love a guy with swag.


----------



## mochoa

LOL


----------



## AnthonyReed

Notice my hands are out of my pants, i am in public after all. I have all kinds of manners.

Admit it, my belt buckle is the coup de grace.


----------



## devann

Lot's of fine steel pictured here. I don't have a cool chisel photo. But I that some of you might like to see what I use to protect the business end of a chisel from nicks and rolling off of the workbench. It's a plastic sports drink cap cut with a coping saw.


----------



## chrisstef

LOL Tony. I dunno the studded pants are pretty gangster but would be nothing without the belt buckle. Or are those sweatpants? or ever better, the illusive sweans (sweatpant/jeans combo).

Darrell - i like your ingenuity and frugality. Wayward chisels can be disastrous. Just ask the 1/2" Witherby that took a nose dive off my bench. Kamikazee chisel.


----------



## devann

Smitty, I've stuck my foot under a falling chisel more then once. Even if all I have on are flip flops. I'd rather bleed than see my chisel hit the concrete.


----------



## chrisstef

Kick save and a beaut!!

I cant say ive never done that but i typically have at bare minimum sneakers on in the shop, hikers or workboots in the winter.


----------



## shampeon

I dunno man, I can grind out a chip faster than I can heal. Definitely faster than I can regrow a toe.


----------



## RGtools

I look at it this way…the cheapest doctors visit VS the most expensive chisel. The chisel hits concrete and I can cry later.


----------



## BrandonW

The problem I have is reflex. I would probably try to save it by instinct, though I always wear shoes in the shop. Never been much of a flip-flop kind of guy.


----------



## dbray45

If you are dropping your tools, get a good mat on the floor in front of the bench or put a piece of old plywood on the floor - problem solved


----------



## chrisstef

17 days ago …. This thread needs a bump


----------



## AnthonyReed

^ I am of the opinion that you do not get enough recognition for all your fine work.


----------



## mochoa

LOL!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Is there a consensus as to a preferred method for the treatment of leather washers on chisel handles when rehabbing them?









Will soaking the entire handle in BLO cause harm to the leather? Also, is there a way to smooth the leather if it has become scuffed?


----------



## chrisstef

Ive rubbed down some old leather handles with paste wax before but i cant say that it helped out a whole lot. I dont think that the BLO would deteriorate the leather any further. I could be totally wrong here too. Im all ears on this topic Tony as ive got a couple of Witherby's with leather striking caps that could use a little attention.

Glad i could be of service. Internet searches are a part time hobby and im probably better at that than woodworking


----------



## ShaneA

"internet searches are a part time hobby"....lol


----------



## chrisstef

I knew someone would find the hidden humor in that Shane. They occur mostly after dark when the rest of the house sleeps lol.


----------



## dbray45

saddle soap should soften the leather and the right oils back into it


----------



## AnthonyReed

Thank you fellas.


----------



## WhoMe

And for those looking for a set of 12 Everlasting chisels
Everlastings

Now, knowing little about these, is the current bid reasonable? IMO, the asking price makes me think the owner is one bottle short of a 6 pack. 
BTW, I think that even if I had the money, I'm not sure I would spend much north of $350 for a full set of great chisels.


----------



## dbray45

Price is a strange thing - if you REALLY want it, can afford it, and it MUST be yours - then it is reasonable.
If those things do not apply - the price is too much.

I found that for price checking (if this applies) talk to your other half. If it is too much, it is better to find out before you buy it.

Another note that applies for me - I do not want to be a collector, I like to use my tools. If the new tool (a fairly good one) costs less than the old ones, new is good.


----------



## carguy460

Good point about checking with the other half about the price BEFORE…but, that said, I worried about the price of my LN carcass saw and was afraid my wife would freak when I told her how much it would be. "It will be about $140, honey." "Oh, is that all? I thought it would be more…"


----------



## Boatman53

Thought you guy might like this link. It deals with the price of tools and in particular LN. If you don't laugh your butt off and share it with your spouse tell us why.
http://giantcypress.net/post/1487152382/overheard-conversation-at-a-lie-nielsen-hand-tool
Jim


----------



## chrisstef

Thanks for that Jim .. i got a kick out of it for sure.


----------



## OnlyJustME

hilarious Jim.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Good stuff Jim. Thanks.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jason, there's a great lesson there.

We've each gone through an age of awareness as it pertains to prices of quality tools (LN, Veritas, Gramercy, Bad Axe, TFWW, etc.) and it pays to get the spouse up to speed in small doses along the way. More than happy to show my wife the set of 12 Everlastings selling for $1,200. Dropping the coinage required to get the 5/8" and 7/8" sizes in the bench till wasn't so bad compared to that, right? Heh, heh, heh.

That set, btw, appears to be quite awesome. Not sure I believe the 'used by an Amish carpenter' bit, not the least of which because I think they'd hang on to tools that work, right? But on the other hand it doesn't seem to be a harlequin set, either. Something to be said about getting an instant (and complete) set of like-new Everlastings. Huge price, though…

Jim, that's a great link. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## ScaleShipWright

This week my quest for rust ended with these three guys:










The smaller one is a Kirschen (also known as Two Cherries) and should be a good one; the others are Italian made Stella Bianca (white star) and I am curious to test them, since I have been told that the old ones of this brand should be ok. They were of a relative who gave me them for nothing; he was not able to tell mey who and when brought them home (dad or grandad), but they must be at least 30-40 years old. If they are good I probably give them new handles. They were ludicrously sharpened, so some work is needed to have them in a decent state.

After de-rusting and cleaning, the Kirschen seems in mild good shape:



















After reasonably flattening the back, it took a while to make a new primary bevel of 25° and a secondary bevel of 30°.










more news about the other two to come…


----------



## AnthonyReed

Congrats on the acquisition SSW. I don't envy the flattening duty. You look to have achieved great results, nice work. Please let us know how they hold up.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Fat chisel that was mushroomed on the socket end… Brought it to the local welding shop and they reshaped it at no charge!










I had a handle that fit!










Says'Fulton' near the handle…


----------



## OnlyJustME

that's darn near a slick. Maybe a semi slick? Did they hammer it back to shape or just grind it down and weld some new metal to it?


----------



## Buckethead

I have not been afflicted with the chisel jones just yet. Fine joinery is still a dream… But it's almost time to wake up.

Dovetails. This is the fist thing I want to create. I even have some heart pine stock which will be my first casualty. So I have been scouring for the right jig and router setup.

I learned, that most of the cooler looking dovetail arrangements require a jig that costs an amount which might fund a rebellion of great magnitude. Being a peace loving fellow, it seems like dovetails by hand might be more practical, more fun, and I think they have more charm as a finished product.

Here's where this ties in: what is a good setup (reasonable… I don't want to bet the farm, then get bored and dump it all) for a beginning dovetailer? Perhaps a resource or two. I would not begin to know how to set a price on a collectible set on eBay, for instance. Also… Suggestions on a dovetail saw would be appreciated.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I started the grinding, then took it there for them to beat on. So that's the melded effort you see… not pretty but usable. And that's better than the recycle bin for this thing. 

Bucket, you've opened up a real can with that line of questions. but I'll take a run at it.

- A good setup of chisels and saw for dovetailing

First, the chisels.

You can get by with very little, actually, to get started. I had a 1/2" firmer chisel, a 3/4" Stanley permaloid chisel, a planishing hammer and a 14" sash (back) saw when I ran my first set of dovetails… Here's the hammer and one of the chisels, the sawplate is barely visible on the lower shelf of the bench.










I marked things with a 12" combination square, cut with the sash saw, removed most of the waste with a coping saw (sucky one) then chisels the rest. The result sucked big-time, and I still have the four-sided box, but I was hooked. A smaller saw was hugely important to getting better results, as was a sharper (bevel edge) chisel. And now I use a 6" combination square vs. a 12-incher.

So, what do I recommend?

A sharp backsaw around 10" in length, that's a comfort to hold. I don't know if you like or dislike, but Veritas saws are decently priced and I've heard good things about them from all that have tried one. I played at Handworks with a Veritas backsaw on some oak, and while it seemed thin (I'm sure my old, old sawplates are thicker), the cut and feel was nice), try one for yourself if you can.

Chisels are useless in dovetailing unless they're sharp, so I hope you're set there. And no, you don't need a set to do dovetails. Sizes like 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" and 5/8" will do fine, and even in that list you could drop one or the other of the middle two. Bevel edged, and I like socket chisels, but that's a matter of taste. As in, if you have any, you'll choose socket chisels.  Just kidding. Anyway, I've read over and over that the Narex blue handles are a decent value, so consider those. It wouldn't be me if I didn't recommend the small set of Stanley SW re-issues; very nice.

Then, get busy.

A dovetail a day, for thirty days, is a great approach that will set muscle memory and make setup for dovetailing a ritual that you'll love.

That's all I got, others will certainly add more!


----------



## chrisstef

Smitty's pretty much nailed it. Im new to hand cut DT's and im using the following set up.

Veritas Carcass saws (rip & xcut)
Stanley SW reissue chisels (bevel edge)
Marking knife
Marking gauge
Pencil
2" starret square
6" try square
G&P dividers
Coping saw (with a jewelers saw waiting in the wings for my next set) (Thanks Tony)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ The dividers is a key that I missed… Get a pair.


----------



## chrisstef

I need to get back into cutting tails. I also need to get off my as$ and sharpen all my firmer Witherby's that ive been hoarding. I think that wide board mahogany I scored need to be a tool cabinet or chest. Did I just say that?


----------



## AnthonyReed

Smitty - Very nice rescue.

Buckethead - Heed Smitty.

Stef - Mahogany tool cabinet? How very opulent; perfect for such a refined gentleman as yourself. Eh… i am just jealous is all. Yes, a tool cabinet/chest of mahogany would outstanding.


----------



## RGtools

Cutting dovetails is easier than all the resourses out there make it sound. The veritas is a highly reccomended saw and has a good tooth configuration for the job. That being said, you can get a ten dollar craftsman and a couple of files and make the think perform well (see if you can find a copy of Frank Klauss' hand toold video…wonderful information on sharpening a saw, tuning a handplane and getting a chisel razor sharp)..

Chisels can be spendy or not. You are either going to spend time tuning them up, or money getting a set that's ready to go. Expect to pay $8-$65 per chisel for ones with decent steel and balance. Smitty is right, you do not need a whole set (but you will eventually want one). Irwins blue chips are ugly, take a lot of work to get up and running and don't have the best balance or steel…but they are a great starter tool if you are on a budget.

Try making some small boxes, to start out. This will force you to learn dovetails in context and you will be surprised how useful they end up being. Then start fiting the boxes in other boxes, this will get you ready for drawers.

Get crackin and don't let having the whole set of stuff you need stop you. You could get a dovetail done with:

a Pencil. 
a Dovetail saw
a Chisel.
and for a bit of ease: A square.

If you are going with a limited set, try pins first, its friendlier to pencil joinery.


----------



## chrisstef

Biggity bump.

Scooped up this 3/8" firmer chisel today and as im cleaning it there are no makers marks anf the socket isnt perfectly rounded on the outside, it feels almost fluted.

Here's a pic of a 1/2" union hardware firmer on top of the new chisel. The thickest portion of the new chisel is 3/8" thick where it meet the socket. Union is 1/16" + thinner at the same point where it meets the socket. Any insight?


----------



## ShaneA

Stef, they sound like they are bunk factory seconds…better send them to me so I can re-inspect, for your safety…of course.


----------



## chrisstef

Ya know Shane, i better give you all my chisels for inspection. Im a new dad and i wouldnt wanna get hurt.


----------



## ShaneA

I am just looking out for you. Kinda guy I am.


----------



## CL810

There might be some mortises in my future. Big mortises.


----------



## theoldfart

*CL810*, have you sharpened that corner chisel yet? I've read that they can be a bear. Next up on my list is a 1/4" swan neck


----------



## OnlyJustME

I just hope you don't think you know what you're doing CL810.


----------



## CL810

OF, not yet. Gonna study this for a while because I've heard the same. It's in great shape so I don't want to screw it up.

OJM - I get reminded I don't every day!)


----------



## Airframer

My newest acquisitions  Hope to get a few more later this week as money allows.



















I need to sharpen these and this will be my first serious attempt at chisel sharpening… what degree do you guys hone your secondary bevel to? On my hand plane blades I usually go 25 degree primary/30 degree secondary.. is it the same for chisels?

And a second question about my other set of Irwins.. does anyone know if these are a tang type chisel or a socket type? Not that I plan on replacing the handles but the curiosity is killing me for some reason.


----------



## ShaneA

AF, there is a theory that mortise chisels only use a primary bevel.


----------



## OnlyJustME

CL810, does that mean more goes wrong or less goes wrong? lol

Personally, i dont bother with secondary bevels. I sharpen much the same way as Paul Sellers and strop often. I think the strop makes the better difference.
I'd bet those Irwins are tangs.


----------



## chrisstef

Id just polish em up as they sit personally. I see some Good chisel beatin in your future.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Mattlet #2 will be on it's way tomorrow.


----------



## DanKrager

Cl810, corner chisels are a bear to sharpen and hone! I thought they would be like in-cannel V gouges to sharpen, but for some reason, maybe size, they seem much more difficult. The hard part is to keep a rather sharp inside corner on the bevels while keeping the cutting edge straight. I came very close to making a specially shaped grinding wheel and honing wheel. I just may do that next time I have to sharpen it. But it will get honed for a while first. Considering the amount of use it gets, that could last a very long time!
DanK


----------



## AnthonyReed

Loving your firmness Stef.


----------



## Airframer

*OJM* - SWEET!

And thanks for the sharpening info guys  The sellers method looks like it will make my life a lot easier lol.


----------



## chrisstef

Ohh thanks Tony.

I can wait to see the newest iteration of the Mattlet OJM. I hope (know) its gonna be hoss.


----------



## bandit571

On a big corner chisel, the "point" where the two bevels meet needs to hit the wood first. Small angle then to the outside edge.









Corner detail of my "PEXTO" 7/8" corner chisel.









After turning a new handle..


----------



## CL810

Bandit, that's exactly how mine is. Have you sharpened yours?


----------



## theoldfart

*Bandit*, going rust hunting this week and corner chisels are on the list. Like Clayton I would like to know how you sharpen yours.


----------



## DaddyZ

Info all over the web


----------



## bandit571

I ground and filed awhile, to get the pits out. Then a hand-held oil stone. Take care to preserve the corner area. Needs to be almost a point and sticks out just a blond hair..

Not too hard to do ( I can do it, right?) just takes a bit of time. Do NOT do anything to the back side of the chisel, no back bevels!


----------



## theoldfart

*Pat*, thanks, exactly what I was looking for.


----------



## CL810

You're right DaddyZ. I'm just an old Luddite who can't keep You Tube top of mind. That and google. I'll ask my wife a question she'll say google it. I always thought she knew everything. ;-)

Thanks Bandit.

Now on to You Tube


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks *Bandit* I'm betting anything I find will be in need of work. Working on my pigs right now, have some mortises to do in the next couple of weeks


----------



## Airframer

Sharpening day! So happy you guys pointed out the Paul Sellers method. Quick, easy and sharp!

2 down 4 more to go. I have done 1 Narex and 1 Irwin and the Narex back was nearly dead flat out of the box but the Irwin took a bit of time to get flat. I think I will be ordering more Narex now lol.


----------



## OnlyJustME

The Irwin marples aren't what marples used to be. Nice little sharpening set up ya got going.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Great work AF.


----------



## chrisstef

4th pic down …. 0-o (raised eyebrow)

http://hartford.craigslist.org/gms/3886068051.html


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"UNIQUE Stanley original 50's to 70's die molds for Stanley 40, 60 and 75 chisels. These are for the serious collector"


----------



## chrisstef

Yessir Smitty. Thats some cool stuff in my book. Id bet hes askin a chunk of change for em though. This guys been craigslist pimpin the estate sale 3 weeks runnin.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yep, that's the hint provided by 'serious collector.'



I did some sharpening tonight, too. Not chisels, but the T1 #10 1/2. Sweet plane now…


----------



## donwilwol

the real problem is 'serious collector' = collector with lots of disposable income.


----------



## CL810

I believe this a complete set of Everlast chisels. The chisels are in a glass display case, hence the poor quality of the pic.


----------



## ShaneA

What are they asking Clayton? Looks to be a full set…that 1/8" one has been known to fetch a ransom all by itself.


----------



## DaddyZ

Nice ones Clayton !!


----------



## donwilwol

I'd find that set difficult to walk away from. Of course depending on price, I've done many difficult things in my life.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I think twelve makes a full set.


----------



## ShaneA

Was 1 3/4" a "standard" size in the Everlast line?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's the 5/8" and 7/8" sizes that are more rare. I don't have my No. 34 catalogue handy or I'd check on your question, Shane.


----------



## CL810

They are not for sell. They are on display at the Marc Adams School of Woodworking.


----------



## GMatheson

Birthday coming up and had some Lee Valley money to spend so among a few other things I picked up a pair of Japanese Dovetail Chisels (1/4" and 1/8")


----------



## ShaneA

Sweet. Japanese chisels are probably my favorite.


----------



## GMatheson

These are my first japanese chisels. Still haven't used them yet but they look and feel great.


----------



## chrisstef

Congrats Greg. Those are choice lookin.


----------



## waho6o9

Awesome choice Greg. The balance on Japanese chisels are

the best.


----------



## donwilwol

What did I buy guys? Its says Stanley - Made in USA.


----------



## ShaneA

My best guess Don….it is a Stanley chisel.


----------



## chrisstef

A stanley socket chisel


----------



## donwilwol

aww come on Shane, I was hoping you'd tell me what a great find I made. It was $6, so I took a chance.


----------



## ShaneA

Seriously, I have not seen that type logo before. The later 720 and 750 logos said
Stanley Made In USA w/o the numbers and w/o the Stanley being "boxed". However, it does have the shape of the 750 model. What is the width? If it is 5/8" I think we are talking about a whole other level.


----------



## donwilwol

its 1/2"


----------



## bandit571

Might be missing a leather washer, between the handle and the socket????


----------



## chrisstef

Id a bought for 6 semolians too!


----------



## ShaneA

Me too! I doubt that is the original handle.


----------



## DanKrager

Yah, nice find, DonW. Re: missing leather washer, not. A well made socket handle will have a space between the socket and the handle profile leaving only the taper to meet the socket. This keeps the taper tightly in the socket even if it shrinks or is compressed with the pressure of moving the chisel. 
That looks like a great chisel. I'd have bought the whole set at $6 apiece… just sayin'
DanK


----------



## donwilwol

Dan, it was the only brand name in the box.


----------



## shampeon

Some Butchers and a Herring Bros. fishtail. That pig sticker is my first, and it's one beefy son of a bitch. Poor piggy.


----------



## shampeon

Where the heck do I post drawknives? Here? Ok.








Witherby 10" straight drawknife. Blade's in great shape. I'll probably strip the painted handles, though.


----------



## Airframer

Question for you chisel folks out there. I have been struggling to freehand sharpen my Narex mortising chisels and I just am not good enough at keeping a steady angle free hand yet. I have a couple honing jigs but the mortising chisels are too big for them. What honing guides on the market will fit one of these?

(the 2 on the right)


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, I use the old standby:









It may need a bit of filing to get a good fit, I still have some more to do.


















A couple are old school with a rounded peak to help lever out the waste:









not perfect but it gets the job done. Still looking for the perfect angle.


----------



## chrisstef

Eric - its probably not the answer you wanna hear, but I think that while it can be frustrating, learning to freehand sharpen is a good thing to work on. Wit the giant bevel of a mortise chisel you should be able to "feel" when its flat on your sharpening surface. I like to use my index finger to hold the bevel down and drag on the abrasive, it gives me a reference. There's gonna be irons that just cannot be sharpened any other way than free hand. I just went through it on my #140. I say stick with it even if it takes you a couple of tries. Just my opinion of course.


----------



## theoldfart

Stef, I'll send you my 140 blade tonight! Bestest block plane ever.


----------



## chrisstef

Damn skippy it is Kevin. I haven't really run it through all of the paces yet but from what I have done I like it. It took me 4 sessions to get it sharp and still its not 100% full width but im getting there.


----------



## theoldfart

I'm a weeble so my freehand attempts have been less than satisfying. kindof like a flat beer!


----------



## RGtools

I second the freehand stuff, as I can say that is one of the best speed tips when it comes to working with hand tools.

That being said, I had run into the same issue with mortising chisels before I learned to freehand. Oldfarts method works, but I recomend filing the interior of you jg more flat than it is to get things to sit better. Failing that. Take a chunk of wood and cut it at a 30 degree angle. Set the chisel on that and use that as a guide for the stone. This also help you get a feel for the "right" angle.

Training wheels if you will.


----------



## theoldfart

Ryan is right, I should have mentioned the jig needs more filing. And in fact was a bit embarrassed at not freehanding and tried it and worked fine! However on the chisels with the rounded aris (sp?) still having issues.


----------



## donwilwol

when you free hand a heavy long bevel like these chisels there are 2 tricks I can recommend. First, learn to "rock" the chisel to find the front and back of the bevel. You can rock it several times, less and less of a rock each time until its flat. You learn to pick up on the "click" it makes at the transition. Once its flat, its muscle memory from there.

Second. Only put downward pressure on the very front or point of the chisel. Use your finger tips and push so hard it hurts. Eventually you'll learn how hard is hard enough so you don't have to endure the pain. But….by forcing the front or point into the stone the rest must stay flat.

It awkward at first because when you are concentrating on pushing down on the front it hard to move the chisel forward. It takes a bit of finesse, but you'll figure it out.


----------



## theoldfart

On a straight bevel I'm doing it just as you describe but on the curved mortise chisels no click on the back. kind of winged it
BTW, best how to on finger pressure and rocking back and forth. Thanks


----------



## Airframer

Kevin - I have that exact honing jig! I'll get a file after it and give it a go.

As for the free hand… I haven't given up on it but I have noticed the very leading edge has started to develop at an angle as if I am pressing too hard on one corner. This I think is causing the chisel to want to twist to the right as it sinks into the wood. I wanted to use a jig to get it back to square one so to speak and try again.


----------



## bandit571

Yard sale finds? a 1" wide Corsair?? And this 1" wide "Thing"









What kind oh handle goes with this? No marks on the chisel itself, other than a lot of rust. As for the Corsair?









Might need a hoop on the hande's end?

About $3 for the pair…..


----------



## bandit571

Have cleaned up the "short" chisel. Ferrel is stamped "Super Duty" with "Cleveland File Co." around it. Tang is split. And, it isn't a tapered one.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Regular readers may recall these Diamond Edge chisels. Beautiful socket chisels, but of the six handles only five are of the same material, and one of the five is split beyond repair.










Enter a fellow LJ that I went to see today, and a set of six handles is underway in Pecan!










Very excited to use these for 'special occasions'!!!! Will show them soon, all polished and ready for action.


----------



## ShaneA

Full vintage sets just seem to add a little something to the sweetness factor. Hard to come by, and usually crazy spendy. Good stuff, look forward to seeing the new ones installed.


----------



## donwilwol

looking forward to the recovery Smitty. That's a nice set of chisels. Some day I hope to stumble onto something similar that I don't have to remortgage the house for. Are you wrapping ne leather to?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yea, the leather washers will be included.

I didn't pay all that much for this set, really. I was surprised. It was the auction bhog and I went to last year, guess there were few DE chisel fans…


----------



## bandit571

OK, here is a few looks at the cleaned up chisels from the Restore store









Both are 1" wide ones. Note that flair along the tang?









The one with a handle is labeled as a CORSAIR TOOL STEEL USA Nothing stamped on it's ferrel. AS for that "Salt Shaker" ferrel









It is stamped as a "SUPER DUTY" from the Cleveland File Co. Tang on the blade is split, too. Anyone seen anything like these two? Paid a whopping $3 for the pair…


----------



## planeBill

I freely admit I have a chisel problem.There is just something about this simplest of tools that rings my bell. They are relatively cheap and simple to rehab into a beautiful tool. 
Part of my meager collection. I say collection but I am not a collector (am I?? ) as I use them all.
I have a few more. Some Hirsch mortise chisels, a few J chisels and a set of Stanley 750's. I plan to add a set of Koyamaichi firmers very very soon.


----------



## shampeon

Pexto chisels are extremely nice. Good steel, well balanced, and tend to be cheaper since they don't have the name recognition of some of the other premium vintage chisels. Union/Samson is another underrated chisel brand.


----------



## planeBill

Pexto chisels are definitely some of my favorites. I have many of them besides the set above. Lots of parers and mortise chisels. I just cant seem to leave a chisel handle alone though I do not dare to alter the ones on the set, they are just too original and nice.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ah, sweetness… Pecan wood and chisel steel. "Diamond Edge is the quality pledge."


----------



## AnthonyReed

You do the leather too Smitty? Very nice.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm doing nothing but appreciation. There is a great talent at work here, and I'm in total learning mode. I mean, wow…


----------



## mochoa

Very nice Smitty.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Planebill that is a sweet collection. The LNs I recently got are my first socket chisels. I don't believe I'll be going back.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Planebill, thanks for those pics. What an incredible assortment of beautiful you've got. Wow.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Somehow I had missed your original post regarding the new handle Smitty. That is an astounding reproduction. I applaud the maker.

PlaneBill that is a wonderful arsenal you have there.


----------



## planeBill

Im actually a little ashamed, that's not even all of my chisels. My wife just does not even understand, though she tries. Hell, I don't fully understand my addiction, I just keep feeding it.


----------



## donwilwol

Im actually a little ashamed, that's not even all of my chisels. My wife just does not even understand, though she tries. Hell, I don't fully understand my addiction, I just keep feeding it.

I know the emotion!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Before:










and After:










Have to get them, but work is complete. I even have a couple 'spare' handles, just in case. Incredible work, can't wait to get them to the bench!


----------



## ShaneA

Nice. Look like they could have been original.


----------



## bandit571

Well, I WAS trying to find out about an old chisel…..

Got buried under a pile of others….

At least I can use the Corsair one, as a paring chisel on tenons.

A Salt Shaker? Asa ferrel? Cleveland File comapny made chisels????

Oh well, it was just a $1 chisel that looked interesting…..


----------



## Brit

Smitty - They are stunning. First rate job you did there.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thanks, Andy, but I take no credit at all. Another LJ did the incredible work you see above. I'm stoked, and humbled…


----------



## planeBill

Smitty, whoever did them they look great! Look original as original. Beautiful.

Shampeon, youre right about the name recognition thing. I took the pexto's to school and no one had ever heard of that brand, not even any of the instructors.


----------



## lwllms

I've been watching eBay for a few years trying to find well-made chisels for making side escapement planes. I need thin bevel edge chisels and want them properly balanced with a traditional oval bolster. Three sizes are ideal for this-3/8", 5/8", and 7/8". In the years I've been watching eBay and going to tool shows while looking for these, I've managed to get two chisels and only one is the right size but it's not bevel edged. Frankly, there isn't a new chisel on the market that will work the way we need chisels to work.

I've been threatening to just make what we need. We have a young guy from Finland coming to learn what we do and he also needs proper chisels. Last week I started machining three sets. One set for me; one for Don, my business partner; and one for the guy from Finland. I've worked them in with other metal working I need to get done so it's not going real fast.

The photo below is where they were last Friday and I've done a little work since. Machining is a pretty inefficient way to go for this. For instance, I started with 1" diameter round O-1 for the 7/8" chisels. Each piece weighed 1 lb. 12.5 oz. (or 28.5 oz.) In the photo the 7/8" chisels weigh 6.4 oz. and I've done a little more on them in the last few days. They're to the point that grinding, filing, lapping and heat treating is what is left and the 7/8" chisel is down to 4.2 oz. They'll probably be about an ounce less when I finish.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Unbelievable, the work that's gone into those prototypes. What is 'a traditional oval bolster,' other than the flange at the base of the iron? (Pardon my ignorance.) you still have the bevel edges to cut as well, right?


----------



## chrisstef

That's takin the bull by the horns.

Typically chisels are molded? Id really like to hear more about this whole thing. Super interesting stuff and very fortuitous of you as well.


----------



## lwllms

Smitty,

Here's a photo of the 3/8" chisel I've been using. It's a vintage Buck Brothers and it's getting short, thick, and out of balace from years of frequent sharpening. Buck Bros. bench chisels are normally pretty soft and I should have re-hardened it years ago.










You can see the bolster in the photo. It would be basically square with the four corners knocked off and beveled.

I machined what I could of the bevels along the edges of those I'm making. Then I tapered the blades so that they're 3/32" thick where the cutting edge will be. I've also squared up the shanks between the bolsters and blades and refined symmetrical curved shoulders. On the 5/8" and 7/8" chisels I was able to machine two opposing sides of the square tapered tangs but the other sides and the 3/8" tangs will have to be ground by hand. I'll form the octagonal bolsters with files. I need the blades to be less than 1/8" thick 2 1/2" back from the cutting edge so I can work though the mouths of planes. To get this I'll have to hand grind a slow curve in the beveled face of the blades.

Chisels were traditionally forged in dies which uses a lot less steel. I'm not a blacksmith and don't have access to a drop hammer. I wish that wasn't the case but I'm not sure I could make the necessary dies and know it wouldn't be worth the die making effort for such a small run.


----------



## bandit571

The two such chisels I have, have a flat bolster to them.









Might make the one without a handle into a butt style…...


----------



## bandit571

Ok, got tired of looking at a handleless chisel

Sooooo, I had an old, cheap parting tool. Handle was great. Cut it down a bit. Ground it a bit to fit the new ferrel, beltsanded smoother. Install the chisel blade and the ferrel onto the "new" handle..









The bevel side of things. By the way, I also sharpened the edge a bit









And even flattened the back of the chisel's blade









Cleaned off the old finish from the handle, and then a coat of that SMELLY BLO applied. Let it set a bit, then wiped it down. Still stinks, though.

New life for an old chisel???


----------



## DaddyZ

Bandit^ Nice Handle for that Find - No Info on what brand though…


----------



## bandit571

Stamped as a "The Cleveland File Co. " on the ferrel. Not sure about a third chisel down at the Restore store. I passed on it, and got these two. The pair costs me a whopping $3!


----------



## Mosquito

New Stanley Sweethearts… anyone seen the set of 4 for under $90? Or the set of 8 with roll for under $170? Amazon has them for that right now (and free shipping).

Or should I start picking up other chisels one at a time (to lessen the hurt a little)

I really want some new chisels, as I don't like the Bailey's much for joinery (dovetails, specifically). The sides are way too high for my liking.


----------



## chrisstef

I caught my set of 8 for $125 Mos but im also pretty sure they fell off the back of a truck. I don't think ive seen them for less than you've posted online though. I could see if that guy I got em from might have some more. They pop up once in a while on my local craiger. I actually picked up a set for OJM when I got mine.

Do get the roll though its niiiiice.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mos- I've wondered how the Ashley Iles bevel edge chisels stack up against the Stanley reissues. I have the set of Ashley butt chisels. I'm pretty happy with them for the price ($125).










http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/ashley_iles_bench.htm


----------



## widdle

Red, Im looking into those chisels…is there a weird transition where the brass meets the steel ?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Widdle- it definitley drops off the thickness of the brass ferule. Hasn't bother me though. My hand doesn't rest on the that area much. Here's a pick next to the LN's. Notice the beveled sides are steeper. Little friendlier to dovetails imo. I really like the length of butt chisels for certain things.

Mauriico has the full length Ashley chisels too, so maybe he can chime in.

Also you can see my fix for ferules coming loose seasonally. Little dimple with a punch on the underside. Problem solved.


----------



## widdle

Ok, thanks for the comparison…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

2nd thought, those beveled sides might be moreso on the butt chisel set. My Ashley's are about 6mo. old. I don't know if they've changed much. The fit and finish of the wood isn't as nice as the LNs. But decent for the price.


----------



## mochoa

I really like mine! I went to the store and held the LN and SW and just didnt fall in love with them. I like the dark wood and brass. Havent had any issues with my ferules. 









I like the very thin edges for getting into tight places. Takes a very nice edge.


----------



## bandit571

On another site: I have been scolded for wasting my time on such cheap chisels as the two I just got through fixing up. Told to save the effort for "better " (???) chisels. Seems to think that those two would just bend when in use. Apparently Mr Wilson thinks any chisel would have to be hit with a sledge hammer, to be of any use?

Three whole dollars, and MAYBE an hour of rehab, and now I have two very sharp PARING chisels, each 1 " wide. Might not be one of Wilson's worthwhile chisels, but I seem to like them. They do take a nice, mirror bright, and very sharp edge, and so far, they have kept it that way.

Stamped out blades??? Big Deal. Not a proper bolster for such an old chisel? Seem to be ok for what I use them for…


----------



## ShaneA

I have several of the Ashley Iles chisels too. Fit and finish for the price point seems good to me. But I have never used a "premium" chisel. So tough to compare.


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, there are other sites? ;{


----------



## bandit571

Something about a Creek…..

Talking about a fellow that even disses St. Roy!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ I read that as a 'no.' Lol


----------



## widdle

Roy has fun, something to think about as an aproach..for sure..

just to finalize on the A.I. chisels..Good steel ? weight comarisons to irwin or Ln"s, and parallel taper at edges ?


----------



## Mosquito

How's the steel on those Iles? That's one thing I've been wondering about. I don't really like the lack of edge retention that the Bailey chisels have, and that's one of the reasons I'm wanting to upgrade… It's what has me considering buying a LN chisel one at a time…


----------



## mochoa

I dont think edge retention is the goal with the Iles. I think they are meant to be fine paring chisels set with lower angles that take a very sharp edge and are easy to sharpen. At least the longer ones I have.

I have thought of getting a couple of A2 or Japanese chisels that can take more of a beating. For chopping out DT waste and stuff like that.


----------



## widdle

The lie nielsons hold an ege better than any of my chisels..But they are bit on the light and small side..
not the answer i was expecting on the A.I chisels..They look beefy in pictures..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mos- If edge retention is paramount, LN's A2 is worth saving for. Otherwise, AI are a very good O1. Much better than my Chinese marples.

Wid- not sure AI are gonna trip you trigger if you lookin for beefy. They're not much beefier than LN. Just a nice chisel for the price.

LJ Mafe is pretty high on them: http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/2106
So is Joel at TFWW: http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/dept/TBBC/item/IL-100-40.XX/Mk2_Beveled_Edge_Bench_Chisels_by_Ashley_Iles

Pretty sure that's why I bought em. But TFWW was out of stock at the time, hence thebestthings.com. I can certainly relate to the frustration of not being able to see/feel hand tools prior to purchase. Fortunately, most quality hand to vendors state, "if your not happy for any reason, return them." And sometimes I do.


----------



## lwllms

Mos,

The steel in the Ashley Iles is O-1 and properly heat treated. I think you'll find edge retention fine. A-2 chisels are generally ground to a more obtuse bevel than other chisels and, with that kind of grind, tend to stand up to heavy chopping. A similar bevel on an O-1 chisel will give similar results. Ashley Iles Mk2 handles aren't sized properly and most are just too big, I wish they'd use more sizes and actually size handles according to the size of the chisel. Between the handles and the over-sized very heavy bolster Ashley Iles chisels are clumsy to use and out of balance. The blades on the Ashley Iles Mk2 chisels are thin and very refined. I think they're the best of the modern chisels. Forging and grinding the blades is the hard part, I don't understand why they cut corners on the bolsters and handles.


----------



## Mosquito

Oh, they are O1? I guess for some reason I thought they were another one of those alloys. That may be worth looking into more than…

I had read about the shallower angles allowed with O1 vs A2


----------



## Mosquito

Did it. Pulled the trigger on the AI's


----------



## widdle

Good man Mos..Did you go big or what..


----------



## Mosquito

Not all 11, but the narrow set of 6


----------



## widdle

Let me send you some ipe..figure this out once and for all..


----------



## mochoa

Thanks for the insight Larry.

Sweet Mos! You'll like them. I think they are great and probably the most reasonably priced high end chisels I've seen.


----------



## Mosquito

I like that you can get them larger than 1" as well. I use my larger chisel quite a bit, when doing the Paul Sellers knife line cross cutting


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sweet Mos. Hope you like em. Also hope you don't experience the quirk with the ferules I did. But it's not a big deal.


----------



## Mosquito

I've got a center punch already, so I can give them the same treatment, if I have to 

I had to glue a couple on my bailey chisels as well, and all the ones I didn't are loose. Now the question is what do I do with the bailey chisels now? lol


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, it didn't shock me considering the tools were shipped over seas. Different climate, humidity, etc. The guy on thebestthings.com recommends just cutting the ferules off. I dunno about that. That would look a lot worse than putting a dimple in the brass. 
I'm confident they will be a big upgrade from the baileys.


----------



## mochoa

Red are your butt chisels used for a lot of chopping with a mallet? Maybe that's why you have had issues with the ferules and I haven't? Mine are used for paring (and light chopping) and I use my old Marples for beating on.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Little of both Maur. I like the length because they fit in the "butt" of my hand. As designed.

Actually the ferules were loose right when I got them. First mallet taps, one or two of the ferules dropped right off.


----------



## DanKrager

Man, ya gotta hate it when you beat on the head of your chisel and its pants fall off…
Kinda keeping my eye out for two or three good mortising chisels. No good rust hunting grounds here, just deer and turkey.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, pigstickers?


----------



## DanKrager

Pig stickers would work, but they tend to be pretty short. Since I can't afford much anyway right now, I'm holding on for longer ones. The Narex look pretty attractive and have been getting nice comments. 
DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

An awesome day!










The re-handled DE chisels have landed in the shop, thanks to Dan Krager!! Pecan handles, expertly turned, make these a very, very special set in my shop.

Leather ends and detail I've never had the pleasure to see up-close before today… Wow…










Yes, they are users at the core! 










Dan and wife were distinguished visitors to my shop this morning, with a good time had by all. An excellent 'shop tour, and LJ discussion!

Dan, thanks again!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Very, very nice. Little jealous you live so close to some cool LJs.


----------



## chrisstef

Ohhh. Hell. Yea. LJ get together, pecan handles, DE chisels …. Throw in a pint a whiskey and wes got a party.


----------



## DanKrager

It was a short party without the whiskey! We thoroughly enjoyed the visit! Thank you for the tour, Smitty. Fascinating. Those handles have a good home.
Had to pick up some baltic birch plywood so now I can build my router mill.
DanK


----------



## Mosquito

Router Mill? Now I'm getting jealous lol


----------



## AnthonyReed

Nice work Dan. Those handles are outstanding. They could not have found a better home; congrats Smitty.


----------



## shampeon

Beautiful chisel set there, Smitty, and Dan nailed the design of those handles. Bravo.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dan's work has me repairing the orig. chisel box. Finger jointed chestnut now in pieces, ready for glue-up… Fuzzy image, but you get the idea.


----------



## DanKrager

Just for the record, sandpaper, steel wool, or other abrasives were not used on these handles. That polish you see came right off the turning chisels topped by a couple coats of oil wiped on. The tapers were fitted individually to the irregular sockets with a small file and they fit so tightly that I believe they would break before coming out.

Oh, Smitty, I just found the cord you had around the box. It was right with the box and I should have seen it to bring with. Sorry. It will be here until we meet again.
DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dan, not to worry I have many of those.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Gluing up a little box takes many clamps, just sayin'.


----------



## mochoa

Smitty, those are some incredibly sexy chisels, the handles are top notch. Congrats on those!

They are going to look great in the box.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I feel like the thread has been hijacked with these tools, regrets if that's the case, but here's a bit more…

The iron on all six of these has been polished in the past to the point the DE logos are each barely visible. Very soft to the touch, with iron that's very stout yet thin. Haven't worked with them enough to say balance is right, but the pecan is not the heaviest of hardwoods (compared with it's cousin hickory, let's say) and that's what these originally (plain handles chisels) came with per an ad I found on the interweb.


----------



## JustJoe

Stanley Everlast chisels rock! But that's not a complete set. It's missing a couple. And it's only one type. There were seven different model #s.
Here's mine. I'm missing one - it's buried in the workshop somewhere.










Sorry if this is a repeat - I haven't read all 1,469 posts in this thread yet (I just finished working through the saw thread). But here's a site where someone started to do a type-study on these chisels:
http://www.oldtooluser.com/TypeStudy/everlastchisels.htm

My current favorite is a no-name skinny little bugger, not a Stanley. I don't even know if it's a real socket type (I don't like tangs).:









It's under a 1/4" wide, maybe 7/32". The bottom 3" is the blade and it's beveled to both sides (if you looked at it from the end it would be a triangle. The cutting edge is beveled to one side. The blade is cranked about 30 degrees and flows into the skinniest piece of metal I've ever seen on a chisel. After about 10" of that you get to the wooden handle which is no thicker than those fat pencils they made us use in first grade. The whole thing looks too long and thin to be able to do anything but it's great for paring in the tightest of places. And I think it looks neat. There's not a makers mark anywhere on it, but it looks professionally made.


----------



## bandit571

Sharpening day today, mainly getting the wide bodied ones back to sharp









Widest one is that Vancamp framer chisel @1-1/2" wide
Shortest is the Fuller 1-1/4" wide thingy

the rest are just 3/4" to 1" wide ones.

also drug out the narrow ones, to clean up….


----------



## planeBill

JustJoe, I believe what you have there is a saya chisel. Used for making scabbards, or a saya in japan. I am sure it was professionally made, probably by a very talented blacksmith in Japan. Very unusual chisel too. Modern ones don't look like that one. It is an extreme example is what I mean.


----------



## JustJoe

Thanks Bill. I never heard of such a thing and thought you might be pulling my leg, but google images show a couple that look pretty close.


----------



## planeBill

No pulling your leg. That's what it first put me in mind of, I could be wrong then maybe not.
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product/156447/1-Scabbard-Chisel--Saya-Nomi.aspx

The varieties are endless given the number of different makers.


----------



## lwllms

An update on the chisels we're making. I did the preliminary work on these and posted where they were earlier. While I've been planning to make chisels for years, we do need to do it now. We have a young guy from Finland here to learn plane making and he'll need proper tools for the work. I got them ready for the more difficult work of properly grinding and shaping them before he got here and waited for him so he could begin to learn grinding and how efficient files can be. Yesterday we stress releaved the steel after finishing the shaping. All the machining and grinding stresses the surfaces of the steel and that has to be fixed or they'll badly warp during heat treating. To relieve the stresses in the steel we bake them in the furnace at 1200°F for about an hour.

Here's what they're like now except they've been flattened and cleaned up since this photo:










Over the last six days we've made a bunch of special floats and some plane irons he'll need. We've also spent a lot of time going over all the fixtures and tooling we use. Here's Tuomo sitting at his bench with plane irons, floats and chisels we've been making.


----------



## DaddyZ

Looking Good on those Chisels !!


----------



## Mosquito

Very cool.

A question, if I may… you say "Over the last six days we've made a bunch of special floats…"
Do you have any plans to sell plane making floats at all?


----------



## AnthonyReed

So fascinating. Thank you for bringing us along.


----------



## mochoa

Wow, thanks for giving us a glimpse into the shop Larry. Very interesting.


----------



## lwllms

Mos,

I've been trying to talk Lie-Nielsen into offering the types of floats we made. Thomas always says he will but hasn't wanted samples yet. We need to take care of the back-order list of planes before we take any more orders for anything. We've been jerking our customers around with long wait times for too long. It's not good for them or us.


----------



## Mosquito

Totally understand that lwllms. I saw you guys quit taking orders a while ago


----------



## mochoa

Can anyone recommend a good mortise gauge? New or vintage? I need one. Thats chisel related right?


----------



## Mosquito

Sure, but wasn't there a "measuring and marking tools of our dreams" thread too? lol

I like my Stanley #77. Rosewood and brass, a favorite combo of mine. But then to be fair, I haven't used anything else


----------



## mochoa

Oh yeah, forgot all about that. I'll ask over there. Thanks Mos! I'll check out Stanley's on ebay.


----------



## RGtools

^Two Tite-marks.


----------



## Brit

yassedi - You obviously don't understand the nature of this thread. Your site is a typical example of the tools that everyone on this thread is fed up using and want to get away from. Your tools are crap, so please don't start spamming on this site. We wouldn't get out of bed to use the chisels you're selling. And another thing, if you're going to spam, at least check your grammar before you post your nonsensical garbage.


----------



## JADobson

If only stern warnings like yours would make spammers note the error of their ways, Brit. I'm afraid you may have fallen upon deaf ears though.


----------



## theoldfart

just flagged it as spam, maybe the internet gods will make him go away.


----------



## donwilwol

The internet gods probably won't, but the LJ gods may!!


----------



## terryR

Just catching up with the past 11,000 posts…hoping to learn a bit about chisels from the esteemed panel!

carry on…

Edit…my 2 cents…DonW can (probably already has!) block that POS from this thread, Restoration thread, Saw thread, Plane swap thread…but where's Al when we need him to protect the HPOYD thread? Oh, Al is the author of this one, too…I may have to drive to WV today!


----------



## Brit

JADobson - Yeah I realise that, but at least it made me feel better. LOL.


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, I flagged yas's posts where ever I could find them. I'm guessing the more folks that do that the more aggravated the internet gods/LJ gods will get. Maybe then he'll get booted!


----------



## LoriF

Comment deleted.


----------



## terryR

Kevin, good job. I don't understand why idiots like him make me so angry. Obviously Andy feels similarly, and likes to blow off steam as well! 

ooops…I think I just sent yas 1028 PM's. I like to fight fire with fire. LOL


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, the man has an eloquent response to your message on his home page.


----------



## donwilwol

Careful Terry, he's an expert at fight.


----------



## terryR

No worries…I have several hidden skills as well! 

And, I can type in complete, complex sentences, which might challenge some others…

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread, but as I near the age of 50, I just cannot keep me mouth shut when an idiot spills crap from theirs'...


----------



## waho6o9

Here, watch the kitty get back to square one.


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, I'm over 60, it gets worse/better depending on your point of view. Just so this is not listed as a hijacking:









Bash-O-Matic pig sticker!


----------



## terryR

Wow, Kevin, you really are an old fart. 

Hey, some days I feel 60, some days I feel 40, ya know?


----------



## bandit571

Wide bodies sitting in the window sill, after a sharpening


----------



## bandit571

And, this old bandit turned 60 this year…


----------



## theoldfart

Congrats bandit, I gotta do the same this week. Have a class w/ THE SCHWARZ next Saturday, all hand tools.


----------



## DanKrager

Bandit, TOF did anyone remind you to change the hitch? Now you're not pushing 60, you're pulling it!
Jealous of the class, TOF! Bring back some good stuff!
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan thanks. Is it pulling or dragging?


----------



## DanKrager

Pulling is when the plow is in the ground. Dragging is when you don't give a sheet which side is up.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Sounds like what happens when you goose a ghost


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mos- so how do you like the Ashley Illes after some time with them?


----------



## ShaneA

Aww man, I thought I was about to steal a James Swan 1/4" mortise chisel for about $17+ freight. An hour to go, in good shape flying under the radar. Getting my hopes up to add to the old Swan collection, and whammo! bidding war breaks out. $61+ selling price. I mean who pays $61 for one vintage Swan chisel? I thought I had it bad. Good to know others out there got it worse.


----------



## Mosquito

So far so good Red. I can see your point about the butt chisels being a little more comfortable sometimes.

I'm able to get them pretty sharp, and they hold an edge much better than the Bailey set I had been using


----------



## donwilwol

switched from stanley to swan Shane?


----------



## bandit571

Just a dollar at a garage sale:









3/4" wide firmer chisel.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Is that a "Diamond" chisel, made in China? I've had several of their bevel edge chisels, didn't seem that bad but I didn't task them much before selling them as part of a larger group (making room).


----------



## bandit571

Yep, it is a Diamond brand chisel. So far, seems to take a good edge..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The ones I had sharpened up pretty well, too. Do you get the impression the chisel is a kind of 'chromium' blend? Seemed very shiny to me, like plane irons made towards the end of Stanley's US production runs.


----------



## lysdexic

Chris,

Schwarz had a blog post last night about mortising by hand. One of the comments ding the AI mortise chisel for their "biggie" sized, bulky handles. What say you? The comment suggested that Japanese style handles are better.

Edit: post for reference


----------



## RGtools

I like the heft. It's in proportion for me, but I have big hands so I can see how they would be uncomfortable for some mortals. I wish more stores had stock you could touch before you bought it, things have to fit you if you are going to work with them.


----------



## theoldfart

I prefer the pig sticker style. The ovalized handle helps you sense how the blade is aligned and the bulk of thing steady's it when hammered( the chisel, not me! Then again….). my two centavos


----------



## Brit

Shane said "I mean who pays $61 for one vintage Swan chisel?"

Answer: The person who needs it to complete their set.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

And the Buyer is thinking, "Geez, I can't believe there's another guy needing this bad enough that would make me pay $61 for one stinkin' chisel…"


----------



## bandit571

ave a few of the Diamond brand beveled chisels, the wider ones are quite good, it is them skinny ones that are trash. The 1/2" one is now 5/16 mortise chisel for shallow depth ones. The 1/4" one is a beater, and lost about 2" in length. More of a skinny pigsticker right now.

The 3/4 and 1" ones are very good, must have had better steel in them..









They're both in this picture..


----------



## ShaneA

I know Andy and Smitty are correct…but I am thinking about MY collection. WTF? People!!!


----------



## JustJoe

I had and sold a set of Swan auger bits once. They were good tools and the logo was pretty neat.

I was checking sold prices on feebay for individual chisels earlier in the week - trying to get an idea of appraisal value for my tools (I'll probably be asking for help when I get back from vacation - I'm almost finished with my workshop inventory and need some appraisals so my heirs know not to just have a 12-for-a-buck garage sale). 
I saw prices on Stanley Everlasting chisels that were just ridiculous. Complete in box sets for over a grand I can understand because you just don't find them. But over $100 for a 1/8 or 1/4 chisel? That's just wrong. They're good chisels, I like them, but not $100 like.


----------



## ShaneA

The Everlasting line is a sought after one, for sure. Then throw on top of that the harder to come by sizes, like 1/8" and 5/8" and 2" you will see the price soar. Really only hope for those on Ebay is to get a mislabeled one or a cheap Buy It Now. The 1/8" really command the money. Probably only way I get one is the 12 for a buck garage sale.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, if I was gonna drop that cash, I would just get some Blue Spruce or the like. Ooooohh!


----------



## ShaneA

Beauties…has anyone taken the plunge on the new LV (PM11?) steel yet?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Everlastings are weird when it comes to pricing. Many types (of which I'm blissfully ignorant), even within the #40 line for example. If you're patient, as set of 8 can be pulled together for something less that $35 per chisel.


----------



## Brit

Not where I live Smitty! (Andy stamps foot and weeps a little)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Awww, Andy… didn't mean to make you weep, Buddy!

Guess you need to take a trip to the (former) Colonies and do some rust hunting!!


----------



## Mosquito

I did it… 1/4" was in stock. So I picked one up… hope I like it for $75…


----------



## AnthonyReed

Sexy.

Congrats Mos!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, my… Congrats, Mos. I hope you LOVE it for that kind of jack (said the guy who's spent way too much on other tool-shaped-objects).

I'm very interested to hear if other sizes are needed, or if just one does all you need. And if 1/4" is indeed the right size. My thought is two, but which two?


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, I've got two old timers like that. You are gonna love it!


----------



## Mosquito

I started with 1/4", because I do a lot (most) of my work in 3/4" stock, and typically do 1/4" mortises. Apart from the workbench, I'm not sure how many non 1/4" mortises I've done…

I'm guessing 1/4" and 3/8" would be a good pair, and probably why they sell them as the only pair


----------



## RGtools

You are going to love that chisel. I have the 1/2 and it makes My LN 1/4 feel woefully inadequate.


----------



## chrisstef

Mos - that's a sexy line up of tools ya got there. Is that the swimsuit edition brah?


----------



## Mosquito

That picture isn't mine, just randomly grabbed from the internet. Only the pigsticker is going to be mine


----------



## chrisstef

I retract my statement.


----------



## RGtools

The shot is fom tools for working wood. I have stared t it many a time.


----------



## Sanding2day

A friend of the family had these stored away and figured I might be able to put them to use… Have not yet done much carving but thinking I will do my best to clean these up and build a nice case for them and try my hand and some carving.

Took a quick look and noticed a few Buck Bros and a neat cross maker's mark but really know nothing about them and would love to know the history and certainly the potential rarity of these before I go into my inexperienced restoration work. Anyone recognize anything here?


----------



## RGtools

^No makers marks?

The rasp looks good if it is still sharp.


----------



## Sanding2day

Did a quick cleanup but still know little to nothing about chisels, carving tools, rasps, etc. Will have to continue cleanup, build the case and find a good project to try making use of them…

Was able to locate a number of makers marks and here is what I found from left to right:

Sculpture Associates, Italy, #2 5/16 and #39 1/4
Sheffield, England, #17
Prize Medals, England #17 and #1 3/8
Looks like Monds
Looks like PSKILSTUNA SWLDE on the handle ???
C Maier #1 3/32
Just says Germany and it has two people, this is what I thought was a cross. Both labelled #3 but one is 75/8 and the other is 1/16
Buck Brothers #8 7/16
And 3 more unmarked Buck Brothers and the one steel…









As for the other rasps etc. only the small ones were marked and were made in Italy. They are marked with 672, 673, 674, and 676









Again, if anyone has any information on these that would be great… Thanks


----------



## WayneC

The ones made in Italy look like rifflers. The top rasp might be a pattern maker's rasp. It is hard to see in the photo but it looks quite nice.

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?cat=543


----------



## ShaneA

The one w/the blue oval is a swedish brand. Eskilstuna, their chisels can be quite spendy.


----------



## Sanding2day

Thanks for the link Wayne and the correction on the Eskilstuna Shane, good info!! Looks like it was a great gifting of handtools!  Now I just need to learn how to use them to make it worthwhile…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very excited.

Received a very well-packaged DE chisel in the mail today, 1/8", that's of the same vintage as my 6-pc box set. And Dan K was kind enough (and incredible insightful!) to create two extra handles, so I have one on-hand for the new addition!


----------



## ShaneA

Nice score Smitty. Looks like the box is full though. Better send it my way.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Stupid box…


----------



## DanKrager

Huh, Smitty? Did you let the box get wet and shrink? It used to fit…

Nice score.

DanK


----------



## AnthonyReed

Congrats Smitty.


----------



## WayneC

Very nice.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I have no idea how many sizes DE made in this socket style, but they're a tough find.


----------



## lysdexic

Like I said. You make good choices.


----------



## SamuelP

Those handles are wonderful.


----------



## terryR

Nice score, Smitty! Too bad about the box, though…you could re-build it such that every other chisel faces north vs south, or just ship the old one to Shane and start over! 

+x on the awesome handles. They match the vintage handles soooo nicely! What's the wood?


----------



## Randy_ATX

I'm so glad I stumbled upon this forum, not sure how I missed it for over a year. 
Is there anyway to tell from these two photos what type (or line) of Stanleys these are? All I know are the size and that they are marked Stanley made in USA. 12" long.
I don't currently own them but have a chance to get them. 5/8, 3/4, 7/8, 1" 
Value, $10 each??? Thanks.


----------



## chrisstef

The red handled ones look like 750's to me, certainly worth 10 clams apiece in my book. Lets see if we can get Smitty on the case… ehhhemmmmm


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sure look like #750s to me, but I am not expert when it comes to what should properly be marked on a #750 chisel. As in, did they get no such numeric mark if they were 'lesser' chisels? Or ?

At that length, either way, unless they were stamped "D" or Defiance, they're definitely worth $10; condition and length tell me closer to the $18-$25 range.

My opion only… your mileage may vary.

Terry, Dan K made eight new handles out of pecan that I brought over to him, very kind, which meant he was encouraging me to expand the set.  (just kidding; he made spares because the original shape / style of handle he followed seemed thin for the larger tools).


----------



## chrisstef

I love when that works ^

Thanks Smitty.


----------



## donwilwol

this is hard to watch. I probably should just go buy a set of SW chisels and be done with it.


----------



## Randy_ATX

Thank you Smitty and Stef!!! I'm afraid i've got early stages of chisel addiction.


----------



## Randy_ATX

edit (double post)


----------



## chrisstef

Randy - you should probably start looking for Witherby's, James Swan, and Union Hardware chisels. Ive heard that they will break an addiction. Kinda like garlic and vampires. Yea that's it.


----------



## Randy_ATX

What started it was while visting my dad recently back in Ohio, he gave me some old Butchers and Ohio Tool Co chisels he picked up. I fell in love with them instantly. I like old stuff in general, and I love tools, so the combination of the two did me in.


----------



## theoldfart

My name is (fill in the blank) and I have a problem! But i did get rid of two hand drills today.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I know a fella that'd wrassle you for them Butcher chisels (see Al / Bertha)...

Don, you haven't bought a set yet??? C'mon, man! You just gotta!!! (serious enablement going on here, not for the feint of heart…)


----------



## chrisstef

Randy, you oughta leave now while you still can. There was a point in time where guys like myself wouldn't stop at every antique store he passed by "just to take a quick peek". There's some sort of cyber sickness that floats around these threads encouraging once normal (not me, never been) human beings to dig through piles of junk, heaps of rust, and spider infested wooden toolboxes in search of relics that most would consider scrap looking for that elusive, scarce, rare tool that can be waved in front of others in some strange form of tool torture.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ some quality posts here. The truth hurts


----------



## theoldfart

Nope, not me. No way, NADA


----------



## bandit571

Drawer full of stuff









Even a Vancamp framer chisel in there, somewhere….


----------



## theoldfart

Thats a whole lotta' sh er stuff there!


----------



## terryR

Yeah, NO addiction to chisels here…I can stop anytim…Hey, did Don say a whole set of SW's? Wow! Where? 

Nice looking Pecan, there DanK! I had overlooked pecan as a stout domestic species. (hoping to make a new handle this winter for my ONE Witherby)


----------



## Randy_ATX

Stef - and let you have all the fun? Too late - i've got it bad. I wasn't going to admit this, but one or two of my chisels are on the floor next to the bed.


----------



## ShaneA

Randy, I cant see the pics from my phone…but I have read several places the "Stanley mades in USA" chisels are either 750 or 720 (dependin on length/shape) series coming a bit later and from a different foundry. Not sure if that is fact or not. However, the 5/8 and 7/8 are rare birds and could easily sell on eBay for 30 to 50 bones each. I "need" a 7/8…just sayn'


----------



## chrisstef

Randy - just in case of an intruder or just in case you get the midnight jones to sharpen somethin? But, with chisels next to your bed, youve passed the entrance exam. Welcome to the asylum. Full fledged membership benefits granted.


----------



## theoldfart

All those in favor say Aye!
Aye..


----------



## ShaneA

I can see the stanley chisel pic now. Those are 720 type. Every more desirable.


----------



## lysdexic

Agree Shane. They look like the couple 720's that I own but I do not know enough to give advice.


----------



## Randy_ATX

Yes! I'm in!!! Thanks guys. Stef - you never know when or what it could come in handy for.

Shane - thanks for the info and confirmation. It is good to know.


----------



## ShaneA

On the subject of chisels…I travel around western Missouri and eastern Kansas on my job. Been stopping at flea markets and antique malls over the past month or two. Just nosing around to see what I can see. I have made some bizarre discoveries. It is not uncommon to see hand planes or saws…but one item seems strangely missing, chisels. Just don't see them. I would be way more likely to take in a chisel stray vs a plane stray. I mean I would only really want a rarer Stanley or a Bedrock, and even then very few of thos would pique my interests. Chisels though, I have more of an open mind. Several mini "collections" working. However, I just don't see them. Is that the same in you guy's rust hunts too, or is that just a Midwestern thing?

There are an abundance of pocket knives too. Man those things are like ants at a picnic.

I did see a couple of nice #2 Baileys today. Both for the low price of $270 lol.


----------



## chrisstef

Kinda funny Shane. I see tons of chisels up here. Id guess because many were manufactured up here. Witherby, union hardware, and Swan are all local. Ill also second taking in stray chisels. Much less work than planes to bring back to life. Im slowly amassing a witherby socket and firmer collection.


----------



## Randy_ATX

Shane I will let you know now that I will be actively seeking them here in Central TX. I can't comment yet because I have not been going to flea markets etc.. This will be changing soon.


----------



## racerglen

Friday rust hunt..









British 60 and a half block, an unknown maker cranked or bent neck gouge and two shop made bent necks, the smaller was at one time a Stanley #2 Phillips screwdriver, shank made in USA, handle in Canada, the other uses a #1 Ulmia handle.


----------



## Brit

Good hunting Glen.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I hear ya Shane. On the hunt, I've only seen a few really nice ones in display cases. Probably why I gave up and bough new.

That, and my OCD would want a set.


----------



## RGtools

Just because.


----------



## theoldfart

Anyone know anything about "Lakeside" chisels, just picked up a 1".


----------



## JustJoe

I don't know if they were a tool company or a hardware store but I've had/sold Lakeside chisels, augers, drawknives, braces, more augers, and a backsaw. I have heard of Lakeside planes but never owned one.


----------



## lwllms

"Lakeside" was a Montgomery Wards label. The tools were made by other and simply relabeled for retail.


----------



## Boatman53

Here's a set of 720's I just got, 1/2", 5/8", 3/4", and 1".Along with an almost new Miller Falls corrugated jack and a MF block plane. The chisels look as though they have never been used enough to sharpen, the handles have never been struck. A friend of mine is moving and let me have first dibs before the yard sale. These must have belonged to his father because he wasn't much of a fine woodworker, he always called me for work on his boat.








Jim


----------



## lysdexic

B-B-Beautiful Jim. They really do look new.


----------



## theoldfart

lwllms, joe, thanks for the info.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

My Lakeside. Beautiful tool.


----------



## Randy_ATX

Jim and Smitty, those chisels are beautiful. Jim, it sounds like you may have got a great deal on them too.


----------



## Randy_ATX

So I just got this newest addition today. As I am pretty new to chisel collecting I don't really know what I have as far as age or collectibility. I just get what I like and allow myself to spend. Strangely there isn't a single hit on LJ when searching Cutsure and almost nothing but a couple matching logos when google searching. Anyone know anything about this one?


----------



## Randy_ATX

Bumping this back up since I posted when the Saints were giving the Dolphins a spanking last night.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks to be a fine looking chisel, Randy.

Chisels (like planes, saws, drills, etc.) were made by a relatively few companies but labeled for others pretty readily back in the day, so your Cutsure could likely be one of those. It's got good lengh, so I'd say sharpen / hone and use it. If it holds a fine edge, you're golden and have a new name to look for when rust hunting!


----------



## TechRedneck

Lakeside had some quality stuff. I picked up a Lakeside #8 plane that is a dead ringer for a Stanley #8. I don't use it much but it tuned up nice.


----------



## Randy_ATX

Thanks Smitty. I can't wait to get it sharpened and try it out. It currently has three poorly executed bevels on it. I have no idea what degree bevel I should attempt to restore it to.


----------



## chrisstef

Id shoot for 25 degrees for paring, 30-35 if you plan on bashing it as a mortiser.


----------



## Mosquito

my miterbox is a Lake Side… been quite happy with it thus far too.


----------



## JustJoe

*Strangely there isn't a single hit on LJ when searching Cutsure and almost nothing but a couple matching logos when google searching. Anyone know anything about this one?*

Google Kruse & Baulmann Hardware of Ohio, they sold your chisel. Cut-Sure was their house brand.


----------



## Randy_ATX

Joe - thanks! Looks like you pointed me in the right direction. Not a common makers mark according to Kruse & Baulmann.


----------



## Randy_ATX

Stef - thanks for the input on the angles.


----------



## chrisstef

Vintage family.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Sexy.


----------



## Randy_ATX

Nice Stef!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sweeeet,


----------



## racerglen

Still have NO idea who made this guy, but I was right, under what apeared to rust was a brass ferrel.









I think the designation is an "in cannell" blade ? never had one before, just the gouges with the sharpening on the outside of the blade, but like it, sharp as found.









One pass in the sacrificial douglas fir, like butter !


----------



## chrisstef

Wow glen. Crane necked gouge all shinys. Daaats nice.


----------



## ShaneA

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Stanley-No-750-Chisel-1-2-One-Half-Inch-Width-Ready-to-Restore-/281182796504?pt=US_Hand_Tools&hash=item4177ccfad8

Reasonably priced 750 ending tonight…


----------



## JustJoe

At current bid that's $16.09 delivered, without a handle and in need of restoration. And the title/pics are for 1/2", the description says 2". I wonder which one the bidders are going for, the 2" or the 1/2".


----------



## ShaneA

Title/desription is messed up, but if one can get it delivered in the $18 range, its a solid price. However, one never knows what the last 30 sec of an auction bring. Figure the handle/description may keep it down some.

Edit: if it was a 2" I would be in for $50…I am "missing" that one. Lol


----------



## donwilwol

new finds

a hand full of Buck Bros and Stanleys 7xx along with my first Japanese chisel. Most need handle work, but the price was probably about $3 average.










And a set of buck bros lathe cutters for $25.










One handle is cracked, but we can fix that.


----------



## SamuelP

Any 3/4 buck firmers in there? Need one to complete my set.


----------



## racerglen

Question..Greenlee tools ?









Snagged this 3/8 gouge for $2.50 last week, but I'm not familar with the brand, any opinions on their quality ?









The pegboard holder's just there for stabalization purposes..









One of the best barganing sessions in a while, he wanted 4 bux, offered 2 he goes..etc..fun !


----------



## terryR

That's a sweet looking socket chisel, Glen…sorry, don't know much about the name, though…

Don, nice haul! If you're planning to get rid of that smaller sliding bevel, please lemme know!


----------



## chrisstef

I think Greenlee was out of Massachussetts. As always im just spouting off so I could certainly be wrong.


----------



## JustJoe

Greenlee is still in business, but they don't do chisels anymore (I don't think so at least, google may prove me wrong.) The early edge tools were great to real good, the later stuff was good to above-average.


----------



## Brit

You guys don't try very hard do you? ) There's loads of stuff on Greenlee on the interwebs. Actually the company is still going today, albeit with a different emphasis.

GREENLEE ROCKFORT ILL. U.S.A

The history of Greenlee

To answer your question Glen - Yes, they are supposed to be of excellent quality.


----------



## chrisstef

Spouting off …. told ya so lol.


----------



## racerglen

Thanks Andy, after I posted remembered a guy dropping by with a tool belt and various plers and such he'd picked up in the street, Greenlee, the sort of tools an electritian would use and that matches the stuff on your link..But it's always good to have someone's quality assesment rather than the company saying we are tool gods, eh ;-)


----------



## donwilwol

Looking to the chisel experts. Conformation and some information if you got it.

from left to right. First is an 1 1/2" Japanese chisel. A tool dealer at the show told me it could be worth up to $100. its not the guy I bought it from, and he's a dealer I know pretty well. How would I tell.

The second tang chisel is a W. Butcher Cast Steel. I know that should be a good one.

The third I believe is a 1 1/2" Stanley 720. At the top of the receiver its stamped Stanley, then made in USA

Next is another Stanley but its 1" and marked in the front. This one I'm not sure of.

Then a 7/8" Stanley 720. At the top of the receiver its stamped Stanley, then made in USA

A 3/4" Pexto. A quick ebay search tells me this is probably worth about $10 in its current condition.

Next is a 1/2" Charles Buck. Should be good steel and a good user right?

The a 3/8" Buck Bros.

A 3/4" Sargent VBM. Not sure how good the Sargent VBM's were.

They all need handles except for 2. I keep going and I'll be having me a set.


----------



## chrisstef

Chisel shopping is quite a bit of fun. Looks like ya done well Yoda


----------



## GregInMaryland

Can someone educate me about pig sticker chisels? I have been looking for awhile to collect a set of pig sticker mortice chisels. Unfortunately, they seem to be as rare and expensive. For the prices I have seen, purchasing a new set of Ray Iles chisels is a better option.

I would say that out of every 100 chisels I have seen, only one is a pigsticker, if that. So, why are pig sticker mortice chisels so rare? Were they an English thing and not really used over here, were shash mortice chisels normally used (or some other type), did they not survive the decades of hard use, did morticing machines/attachments completely obsolete them, or am I looking for love in all the wrong places?

Thanks,

Greg


----------



## chrisstef

I cant really answer any of those questions but I haven't seen any at all in my rust hunting adventures so id agree that they are kid of rare to find in the wild.


----------



## JustJoe

Funny Greg should ask that question just a few posts after the Greenlee chisel post because Greenlee invented the mortise machine. My guess is that it's a combination of all those factors.


----------



## shampeon

Made some new handles for these pig-stickers.

















On top is a big-boy W. Butcher 9/16" with a hickory handle. The tang for this one was gigantic. On the bottom is a 1/2" Ames with a cherry handle. If anybody wants to trade a 1/4" pig-sticker for the Ames, PM me.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Ian, they look great


----------



## WayneC

Wonderful handles.


----------



## SamuelP

Nice handles. Looks like a good fit anx nice proportions.


----------



## terryR

Gret looking handles, Ian! Nicely proportioned…makes me wanna pick one up, and start beating it with a mallet. Wish I had one to trade, but only a 1/2" pig sticker in my collection so far…a ray iles. Wife says I can buy ONE from him per year!

Do you guys think it's legal for me to drive around with that pig sticker in the front seat of my truck, or does it need a locked box?


----------



## theoldfart

'pends on how sharp!


----------



## shampeon

The police probably wouldn't like it if you said, "Oh, that's just my pig sticker."

Thanks, everyone. It's funny how you need a sash mortise chisel to make the mortise in a pig sticker handle….


----------



## SamuelP

This is my set of chisels that was given to me by my dad. Mostly all Buck. I would like to have a couple replacement handles and a 3/4 and a 1/4, and maybe even a 1 1/2 inch to complete the set. I just got the canvas roll from Lee Valley. It was a good price. My only complaint is it is white.


----------



## Tedstor

Nice set of chisels.


----------



## TerryDowning

Nice Chisels Sam

Nothing wrong with Buck Chisels, good steel there. Even better that they are inheritance items.

That canvas roll won't stay white for long if you're using it.

You could also invest in some RIT and change the color to whatever you want.


----------



## theoldfart

On the Bay, just a few bucks!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/STELLAR-STANLEY-NO-40-EVERLASTING-BEVEL-EDGE-12-WOOD-CHISEL-SET-ANTIQUE-TOOLS-/221301267821?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3386955d6d


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice set there, but no more room in the toolchest.


----------



## donwilwol

$1200 for a set of chisels. That's more than I paid for my first 4 cars!


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

By Randy_ATX I have been recomended to share this post here in this forum:

When finishing this stool I went through my old tools and found this nice mortice chisel:










It came with the house my family bought in ´82 that had belonged to a painter. After a bit of love it looked really nice. But it has no name. There are only a small icon:










It appears to be a craftsman holding a carpenters square. Have newer seen it before and got a bit curious. What i think i know: 
- From his clothes i guess the man to be french/german
- The chisel is handforged and probably made before WW2
- The handle is beech
- From the size (l:330mm, handle: ø42mm, blade: 11mm wide) i am guessing it is for cunstruction joints or larger windows/doors

I would love to hear your opinion


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

No input on the mortiser, but I will say it's beautiful!

I'm just here to throw out a nice, random pic I rediscovered this afternoon.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Very nice.

No help ID'ing this chisel yet?

Bumping.


----------



## ShaneA

I have no idea on the maker. Nice looking though.


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

No input yet. I am starting to wonder if they had "re-branded" tools already then..?


----------



## chrisstef

Smitty - im thinkin of you here buddy: Full set of 750's

http://newhaven.craigslist.org/tls/4173820720.html

Reputable seller. Ive bought from him before. I do believe he ships if you got the papers.


----------



## lysdexic

That seems like a decent price but I am not in the know.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

No way, I've blown throught the bench chisel market already. Mortising chisels are what I need, looking hard at the LN offerings, just a couple sizes should do.

Hope someone else adopts them; sure look tasty!


----------



## WayneC

I need some good mortising chisels as well. Will be interested to see what you end up getting. I'm still looking for the set of chisels above for about $40…. lol


----------



## Mosquito

I have only used my Ray Iles pig-sticker on a few test pieces, but I am quite pleased with it so far…

I've also got a set of Narex, that do the job when they have to.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm kinda stuck in the socket chisel mindset, a non-standard position for mortisers…


----------



## dbray45

These are nice mortising chisels - have them - use them - are heavy duty









Traditional Woodworker


----------



## donwilwol

these look tempting from Lee Valley for $109


----------



## CL810

Yea Don, I've been thinking about those today as well. The handles certainly look nicer than the original Narex handles.

How much of an issue will it be not having 3/8" and 5/8" paring chisels?


----------



## Airframer

Now those would be something I would be interested in once I finish filling out my classic bevel set. I really am impressed with the Narex chisels so far. Very decent bang for the buck and having a nice long set would fit right in.


----------



## DanKrager

Smitty, I like your thinking about sockets. I've almost given up trying to find a reasonable cost set of socketed mortisers, even one at a time. I've put the Narex mortising set on my Christmas wish list as a fill in.
DanK


----------



## ShaneA

I have the Narex mortise chisels. Got em from LV. Seem acceptable, I am all over the place w/mortise making depending on quantity and need quality. Some times bench top mortiser, sometimes drill, and some by hand. The one thing I don't care for in the Narex offerings is the danged handles. If I thought I could replace them, I would be all over it. Guess there is only really so much they can do, and I can expect at that price point.


----------



## DanKrager

I've already got ideas about replacing the Narex handles with some ash like I made for my carving tools. I wonder what it will take to remove the handles?
DanK


----------



## ShaneA

I would like to see someone blaze that trail. They could really be taken to the next level w/better looking handles.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Replacing handles, did someone say? Not my forte, as others are much better at it than I will ever be. ;-)


----------



## DanKrager

Maybe some Narex will fall out of Santa's sleigh at just the right time and place. Then I'll document the replacement. I'm currently following some socketed ones that have started out reasonable…
DanK


----------



## DanKrager

OK. One socketed mortise chisel down, 3 or 4 more to go. Can't wait to see it up close.









DanK


----------



## Bertha

there's some glorious stuff going on in here


----------



## DanKrager

Getting close to a pretty full "set" of socketed mortise chisels. One left. Been on a pretty good roll. In about two weeks I'll post a picture of the "set" when they have all arrived. I think I'm ending up with a duplicate 1/8" size. Anyway, it will be fun to share and it will be fun to put new matching handles on them.
DanK


----------



## Bertha

What a horrible thing, Dan, to have duplicate 1/8 mortise chisels, lol. I'm far from a full set of Butchers but I've got duplicates of about 4 sizes, the big ones. A man can never have enough chisels.


----------



## Boatman53

Dan what are you missing, maybe I can help you out. I'm planning on thinning out the herd of chisels. 130 is just too many.
Jim


----------



## planeBill

Shane and Dan, I have some Narex chisels and feel just as you, and many others, do, the handles suck. If for no other reason that they are freaking ugly. They actually are not too uncomfortable. The handles tht were on mine were even uglier than the ones on those beautiful paring chisels, which, by the way, are beautiful monsters. Even though Ive been on a kick with Japanese tools as of late, I really am having a hard time coming up with reasons not to buy these.
On to the point. You can change the handles on the Narex tools. I did on mine but I pretty much had to destroy them to get them off. It is just a basic tang style fit. I managed to save the ferrel (SP)and reuse them.
The Narex skew chisels are in the lower right hand corner beside the three little butt chisels. Handles are cherry.


----------



## DanKrager

planeBill, you have become chiselBill. Those are gorgeous handles! What a spread!

Jim, I'm taking a bead on a 3/8" socketed mortiser on ebay starting out at $10.00. There are several listed, so I may have a better than average chance at one of them. Do you have a "better deal'? I think I've paid up to $35 with shipping for some of these.
DanK


----------



## Boatman53

Dan I'll take a look and see what I've got. If I find something I'll photograph for you.
Even though I'm thinning the herd I'm still on the lookout for certain ones. 
Anybody have chisels made by A. W. Crossman. I've had a 2" one for about thirty years and it is my favorite, then last week in a batch of chisels I bought was a 1" one so now I would like to find more of them and selling off duplicates is how I'm making room. Anybody else looking for something to fill out a set?
Nice chisels Bill.
Jim


----------



## ShaneA

The ones I am looking for would be 2", 1/8", and 7/8" Stanley 750 models. You know the every day common ones…I just don't know that I will ever be prepared to pay what the going "value" on them is, being I am such a cheapskate.


----------



## Boatman53

Dan the socket mortise chisel I would part with is 1/4", sorry.
Shane the only duplicate 750 I have is a 1" and I don't want to part with that one.
I'll be posting in the classified over the weekend some of the highlights I want to sell.
Jim


----------



## DanKrager

The trade winds have been favorable. You might remember that my goal was a collection of socketed mortise chisels. Goal reached. This is the before shot except for the corner chisel.









DanK


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Dan. I just bought my second Ray Iles mortise chisel last week… should show up sometime this week


----------



## chrisstef

Ive always pondered the difference between a non bevel edged firmer chisel and a mortising chisel. Can anyone shed any light.

I dig that set Dan. Ive been slowly amassing the same.


----------



## ShaneA

Is is the length of the bevel, or the height of the chisel? A mortise one would be taller, or more rectangular to it's height. While a firmer would be more rectangular to it's width?


----------



## DanKrager

Thanks guys. I've been working on them this afternoon, and if I get wind that ANYONE beats on, has beat on, or will beat on the bare socket with a steel hammer, I'm gonna come right through this screen and strangle them after beating on them with a steel hammer. The five smaller ones showed various degrees of swaging from misuse. One was bent almost 1/8" from straight, which was carefully concealed in the pictures. I did manage to carefully straighten it with a press. Some are pitted worse than they look on the flat back, so I'm having to remove a lot of material to flatten. I've got the five smaller ones functional and looking as good as they're going to look. These orphans have had a hard life and were abused, but now they have a nice home and will be treasured with new handles. 
DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dan, sincerest Congrats on that set of socketed mortise chisels. Wow.

I really do want to hear a report on how you like them!


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, looks like a surplus of 1/8"ers. Planning on wearing them out? :0) I hear ya on the hammer thing, had to file mine a bit to from hamfisted adjustments!


----------



## DanKrager

While searching for these chisels, I had to learn to tell the difference between a mortise chisel and a firmer chisel. Many eBay sellers don't know. What I found is that a firmer chisel is really very different from a mortise chisel, though they could easily be used to do each others work. A firmer chisel is forged very much like a bevel edge chisel but without the bevels. They tend to be flatter and thinner than a mortise chisel. Their blades are generally straight, not tapered much if any, and generally longer than a cabinetmakers beveled chisel. I think of a paring chisel or slick when I see a firmer. For all I know, they could be interchangeable names.

A mortise chisel has a very distinctive shape, as easily recognized as a pig sticker. The blade on socketed ones are flat on the back and most often the sides, though my smaller ones have partly tapered sides. The top (bevel side) of a mortise chisel tapers to a very thick shoulder. This leaves the blade heaviest in the direction of leverage to pry out the chips.

As with all things, there are, no doubt, exceptions to this observation.
DanK


----------



## DanKrager

TOF, the bills of sale called two of them 1/8", though the one on the left was undersize to start with and with flattening and pit removal, it is much smaller than 1/8" and I may just hone a bit more to make it 1/16" or close. The third from left is 3/16", then 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 3/4" and a 1" corner.
DanK


----------



## Boatman53

Even as I begin to sort out some chisels for sale, more seem to show up for some reason. Any way these two were in a box lot I just received and I've never seen the likes of them before. One was cleaned up a bit by the previous owner the smaller one clearly is untouched. Anybody have any ideas about these? Anybody have a partial set and want some more? Theses will be moving on but I thought they were interesting.


----------



## Woodyoulookatthat

yeh


----------



## AnthonyReed

I can't help in their identification but they are great looking specimens and I hope someone is able to enlighten us about them. Thanks Jim.


----------



## upchuck

Boatman53

Are those like "perfect handle" screwdrivers where the blade goes all the way from butt to tip; where the handle is made with scales attached to the blade/shank/handle? What sort of chisels are you interested in? Wanna swap?

chuck


----------



## Boatman53

Upchuck,
Yes they are very similar to the perfect handle screwdrivers but the end is flatter for taking the mallet blows.
I've already made a deal on these but I'm looking for chisels made by A. W. Crossman. 
Jim


----------



## upchuck

Boatman53,
Thanks anyway. I've never heard of A.W. Crossman. Back in the #900's (#954?) you pictured a comically abused socket chisel. It had the socket split and mushroomed and the edge rolled like a plane shaving. It reminded me of a Samson (Pexco?) that was also given me. Mine had your damage plus the whole socket was beat 30 degrees out of line. Add the rust and I have a graduate level "Chisel Rehab Project Seminar". Another backburner project. Why do people do that? I mean just stick a dowel/broom stick/branch in it.
People…Ain't they (we) a kick.
chuck


----------



## pastahill

I had the luck to buy to boxes of new Paffox chisels from an old , small hardware store which go out of buisness.
Just 18 € for both. Paffox was an old chisel and plane iron making company in Germany founded 1835 and they are out of buisiness since the beginning 80´s. Now i have to make Handles and to sharpen them. The size is 16 and 20 mm this is 5/8 and 3/4. In each box are 10 chisels. The steel looks good, almost no rust. What i know are they forged and not cast.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Wow, those look like morticers too!


----------



## ShaneA

Those look mighty stout.


----------



## Boatman53

What they said.
Jim


----------



## AnthonyReed

Have you placed a handle on any of those yet Pasta?

How is your work bench coming along?


----------



## Airframer

Mrs AF got me a 2" Narex chisel for Christmas. This thing has some heft to it!










That just leaves 2 more chisels and I have a full set of the bevel edge Narex chisels. Then I have my sights set on their new pairing chisels. I will probably only get a couple sizes of those (thinking 1/4 and 1/2?). Pretty happy with these so far.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Very nice score. Congrats Eric.


----------



## fumehappy

Trying to organize the family….


----------



## chrisstef

Whoa. Sharpening day in your shop must suck fume. Thats a hoarde if chisels!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Nice Family there Fume.


----------



## fumehappy

Thanks Tony! 
I was hoping to get rid of some redundant sizes but I only had 5. I ended up roughing in about 15 chisels on the belt grinder and re handled a nice 1/4 pigs ticker I have.


----------



## fumehappy

Here's my jumbo 1/2 pigsticker… and some timber framing.


----------



## MarkSr

Dan, why don't you show some pics of the chisels you now have, the ones you are going to finish and the ones that are half way complete. Knowing you, and your fantastic work, I think many people, especially me will be shocked on how many and the caliper of the chisels you have. You can even included the ones you use for every day not important projects, just to show how your chisels looks, I'm betting they come close to. or as good as your planes.

Your buddy
Mark


----------



## DanKrager

I don't wish to ignore you,Mark, but there are probably a dozen "Dans" here. To whom do you speak?
DanK


----------



## Boatman53

Fume it looks like you and I are on par with chisels. I should spread mine out. Mine are mostly socket chisels. I need to pare down the collection ( no pun intended).
Jim


----------



## dbray45

A good while back (more than a few months) I bought a set of 4 Sorby Paring Chisels from Lee Valley.

Up to now, I have been using them on fairly soft wood - air dried Poplar mostly. Last week I needed them for my workbench which is oak. Before I could use them, I polished up the edge and started my work. A few minutes (we are talking 3 minutes) later, I had to re-sharpen the edge. This went on several times until I started testing this chisel on other woods. After speaking with Customer Support, I tested the other chisels of the set - they are all far too soft to be a viable chisel (at least for me). I was not using a mallet, I was only using single hand force and guiding with the other. The work that I was doing was cleaning up a rabbeted corner for an end vise - not hard work here.

Lee Valley told me to send them back, use the return form and they will honor the return for refund, replacement, or exchange-

A real class act - Good Job Lee Valley


----------



## Armandhammer

Chisels…hoping to order a set really soon. Looking at the following:

Two Cherries set of 4 for $122…needs some tuning, being sold less refined to save money
Two Cherries plastic handle set of 4 for $111 or set of 6 for $161
Ashley Iles set of 6 for $150
Stanley Sweetheart 750 Series set of 8 for $169
Narex set of 6 for $60

Thoughts? Suggestions? Alternatives? $169 for the Stanley set is really, really stretching my budget so I'm going to say that $175 shipped is the utmost I can spend. I even thought about trying to piece together something used and vintage…I just need to research that alternative to see what's worth pursuing if I go thought route.

Right now kinda leaning towards the Ashley Iles…I hear good things about the Stanleys, and the price is right on the Narex. Just too many damn choices. And I still need to pick some saws and planes out too…I think my head might explode before it's all over…or my wallet will implode.


----------



## ShaneA

Lots of fans of the Iles, SW, and Narex. I have the Iles, and like them. You will find others who swear by the others. All will work when a proper edge is achieved.


----------



## Armandhammer

Can't edit now but I wanted to add the Narex Classic Bevel-Edge set of 10 for $125 to the list.

Yeah, I figure most will do the job. I just wonder if the chisels like the Ashley Iles or Stanleys are $90+ better than something like the Narex. I can't afford top of the line but I don't want to shop for my tools at Walmart either…know what I mean. I'd like something that even if it isn't a lifetime tool like a Lie-Nielsen might be, it'll still take me some years to out grow it…if I ever do.


----------



## upchuck

Armandhammer-I've gone the used and vintage route. fumehappy above shows a huge family of fine used and vintage chisels. I have picked up a large mass of them for a buck or three. Flea markets, swap meets, yard sales and tag sales frequently have a few as cheap as dirt. 
chuck


----------



## waho6o9

Chuck's correct. You can even get a bunch on ebay every now and again.

Just make handles and or sharpen them up.


----------



## terryR

A&H, +1 on going the vintage route. Much cheaper! And, a lot of the 60 year old rusty steel is of higher quality than brand new…it's just dirty and neglected.

Another option is to forget about a whole set for a while. If you want the best of the best, buy just one or two iles or LN per year. That's what I've been doing…LN socket bevel chisels, and iles mortisers. I won't have a full set of either for years, but I have the most common sizes.

Oh wait, I have a full set of Marples from HomeD…in the back of the truck. LOL.


----------



## Armandhammer

After much debate and deliberation, research and youtube, I decided on the Narex Classic Bevel-Edge Chisels. While I was at it, I grabbed a Honing Guide and the 15µ, 5µ, and .5µ sand papers. I figured that was the cheapest way to get the initial setup done on the chisels and from what I read, those papers should last me a little while. They are cheap enough I can grab more as needed while I save up for a proper sharping setup using stones or diamond plate or whatever I decide to go with as my final setup. Who knows…maybe I'll stick with paper. Anyways, getting ready to order a saw and I'll be pretty well set to start playing with some dovetails and whatever else I can do with a handsaw and set of chisels. Super excited!


----------



## Armandhammer

I thought hard about searching out some vintage stuff. I'm just too impatient to be honest. Now that I have a proper 10 chisel set, I should be good to go for a while. Maybe after I grabbed the other needed pieces of kit, couple planes, measuring and marking stuff, hand saw or two…I can start to go back and add some nicer stuff a little at a time…like the LN chisels (or Veritas PM-V11 chisels which look better to me than the LN), a Bad Axe saw or two, LN planes…ect. Just depends. Being completely new to all this, I really can't see myself outgrowing the lower end tools I'll be starting with. I know that it will be a very long time before it's the tools that are limiting my woodworking if that ever even becomes the case.


----------



## MarkSr

Sorry Dan K, haven't been on in awhile. I was talking about Dan W. who refinishes old planes. I know 
he also does chisles.


----------



## MarkSr

Armandhammer, let us know how the Narex set is working for you. Test them on both hard and soft woods.
I just recieved my LV catalog and they are offering a 6 pc. set for $125, right on the front cover. Are they the
ones that you purchased?

Please give us your opinions on those. Thanks, Mark


----------



## Armandhammer

10 piece set from LV is what I purchased, for $125. Same as the picture above. Includes 1/4" through 2".
http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=67707&cat=1,41504


----------



## dbray45

Make sure you get an 1/8" chisel as well. It is invaluable.


----------



## Armandhammer

That's awful tiny…it would really see use? If so, I'll definitely look into adding one at some point. Can't wait for my set to arrive. Not sure I can do much with them for a while, but it'll be fun to sharpen them at least.


----------



## Boatman53

I use an 1/8" chisel quite often, but then again I'm not doing basic cabinetmaking.
Jim


----------



## dbray45

It gets into corners, small dovetails, use it for cleanup and even getting glue out of grooves. The chisels I use the most are 1/2", 1/8", and believe it or not a 1/16".


----------



## LoriF

Good deal? Correct chisel for hand cut dovetails? I just started reading about chisels yesterday and I'm soooo confused!

Sorby 1/4" chisel - $20 "http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/4253466664.html"

Rockler Speed bore drill bits. Cuts clean and fast - $35 No info to be found on these.

Board Buddies. Brand New - $40 Current selling price $50-$70


----------



## Armandhammer

Correct chisel I think depends on the dovetail. I've been watching many videos on doing them and I'm seeing quite a range in size and brand. Up to 1" for the larger dovetails. That's exactly the reason I went with a 10 piece set of chisels so I was covered for most situations…of course it looks like I'll be adding a 1/8" and perhaps a set of skew chisels at some point as well.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Lorif, basic tools I use for dovetailing include chisels, saws (back and coping) and marking gauge. It's certainly do-able using a 1/4" chisel, but you still need to address the saw and marking gauge issues.


----------



## bandit571

While not for working wood, but

There are two chisels in the tool box by Stanley Atha

One is a 3/8" wide cold chisel, the other is a 1/2" wide cold chisel

Both are made from STAINLESS STEEL.

Never had a spot of rust on them, either. Seem to stay pretty sharp, though.


----------



## Armandhammer

Got my chisels the other day. Super excited. I had to take a few pics of them…that's what I do…lol

Can wait to get them on some wood!


----------



## dbray45

I got my Narex paring chisels for Lee Valley. A couple things - Lee Valley is a class act, they took back the one set and sent me the other and I bought the first set a while ago. They took a while but from our conversation, they were very busy from the holidays.

Now for the Narex set - they have maple handles and the steel is much thicker than the Sorby set. Now the test - the way these were ground, they had to be sharpened. This was a long process which indicates that these are much harder than the Sorbys that I had. The only notable thing is that there is no size label on these chisels.


----------



## theoldfart

Anybody have any info on Bailey Sag Harbor Chisels? I just picked up a corner chisel with that mark on it.


----------



## Boatman53

Kevin, can you throw up a photo of that thing? I live in Sag Harbor, never knew they made tools here. Bulova Watch had a factory here, made watch cases. Perhaps it came from there. Is there any pea green paint on it? Everything they owned was painted that green. I had some power tools from them at one time. They are turning the factory into some luxury condos as I type this. Funny thing is for the last 35 years since they closed they place was vacant because it was a superfund cleanup site.
Jim


----------



## theoldfart

Jim, here you go. It's actually a fat 9/16". Coincidently there is a trace of green down by the cutting edge which I think is just random spray paint.


----------



## Boatman53

Well I learned something new today. In the 1880's there was a Sag Harbor Tool Company, a quick search turned up a lot of info and other tools on fleabay. You got yourself an old tool that looks to be in great shape.
Jim


----------



## john2005

Kevin, that's awesome.


----------



## theoldfart

John and Jim thanks. It's fairly sharp so I can postpone that bit of angst!


----------



## DanKrager

Can anyone explain how this chisel works? In the early days I've seen chisels used for screwdrivers, but this???

DanK


----------



## Wolfdaddy

It's clearly some kind of socket chisel.


----------



## theoldfart

It's used to make G&G peg holes silly!


----------



## CL810

Can anyone explain how this chisel works?

Poorly.


----------



## DanKrager

LOL! I KNEW I could depend on y'all.
DanK


----------



## john2005

More importantly, hoe do you sharpen it?


----------



## TerryDowning

look on the bright side. No rust to to remove.


----------



## ToddJB

Stanley 750s - did they all have 750 stamped on them? I see some on the bay that are just labeled "Stanley Made in USA" and others as "Stanley 750 Made in USA". They appear to have the same shape and handle. Are they different or is it just a vintage thing? Would the metal be the same?


----------



## ShaneA

Please dont take this as fact, but what I gather is that they are the "same" just slightly different vintage and from a different foundry. I have several of them.


----------



## ToddJB

Being from a different foundry, Shane, do you see a noticeable difference in edge retention?


----------



## ShaneA

Haven't noticed by I also have a chisel hoarding problem so it's hard to get a lot of time with each set. I usually reach for a mid level set of Japanese chisels first. I really like them.


----------



## john2005

Inspired by Kevin, I saw this and threw in an offer. It stuck. 1" corner chisel. What I will use it for (other than to tell Kevin I have one too) I don't know. It says "S.P…..CO NO 1 EX". Not sure what that means.




























In hindsight I should of had more light. Maybe I'll get a better shot for y'all.


----------



## theoldfart

So your saying i'm an enabler! I'm shocked. ;0)
Good find. Gonna' replace the hoop on the end?


----------



## chrisstef

Could it be a Soloman, Peck, Wilcox there John, also known as Pexto. Just a hare brained thought but I do know that they made corner chisels amongst other stuff.


----------



## upchuck

John2005,
Or maybe something like P S & W (Peck, Stow, & Wilcox Co.). Google gives information about the company. I sorta recall that the "No 1 Ex" may have been some abbreviated Latin for "good stuff" or some such self promotion. I have a few P S & W and Pexco chisels. gouges, and a drawknife that are fine tools.


----------



## chrisstef

Yea I meant to say what Chuck said lol. My language and recollection was all downsy.


----------



## john2005

Yes Kevin, I blame you. . Probably gonna leave the ring as is. I don't see this guy getting a lot of use. If it was a 3/8 it'd be different.
Thanks for the info on the brand too. I had wanted to research last night but got caught up sharpening tools I have dulled instead


----------



## bandit571

I happen to have one of them 7/8" wide corner chisels, from P S & W. and had to make a new hooped handle for it. Still learning how to sharpen the bloody thing, though. Seems to be a size made for Timber framers, more than a Dungeon Shop..


----------



## Airframer

Regarding paring chisels… I am looking at the new Narex set and am wondering if all the sizes are needed or if there are 1 or 2 general sizes that get most jobs done kinda like mortising chisels.

Thoughts?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I admit I've never used a paring chisel. But I've wondered if a chisel plane takes care of most of the needs. Except it wouldn't be able to get into tight places.


----------



## chrisstef

Ive got a couple of older Witherby paring chisels. Mostly of the firmer variety. Theyre pretty handy when you gotta get into deep corners. They've actually been bent a little bit which helped me from busting my knuckles. I will say that most of the time I reach for my bevel edge bench chisels but once in a while those old Witherby's cant be replicated.

Id also like a chisel plane.


----------



## Boatman53

I have a L-N chisel plane maybe four years now, new still in the box. I bought it because I thought it would be helpful in cutting about a half mile of caulking. The Fein tool was much faster. Now I just grab a chisel for parring. Trimming bungs as in the photo above I do all day long with a chisel.
Jim


----------



## BigRedKnothead

How much you want for it Jim….LOL.


----------



## Boatman53

I thought about it Red but most likely the day after it ships I'd have a need for it. It doesn't take up much room, so it will stay for a while yet.
Jim


----------



## shampeon

Let's make some leather washers for pounding a mortise chisel silly.

First, a circle cutter, a drill press, some spray adhesive, some leather remainders, and a block of scrap wood.









Then to the lathe, measuring the internal hole of the leather washer for the tenon.









Glue them on to the tenon.









I'll finish shaping the handle once it dries.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Cool man. Do you spray adhesive the leather to the scrap?


----------



## shampeon

Yeah, just a light dusting to keep the leather from spinning when the circle cutter is doing its thing.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That's what I was thinkin. Good stuff man.


----------



## WillliamMSP

I've seen the couple of LJ reviews on the new Stanley 750s, but does anyone have any additional thoughts? I'd been on the fence about spending the money on LN or LV, but Amazon currently has the 750s at ~$20/each, free shipping with Prime (I'm just getting a 1/2" and 1" for now, will fill in others if/as they become necessary). If the 750s are in the normal $35-40 range, it's easier for me to talk myself up to the LV/LN in the $60-75 range, but for $20 bucks I'm finding it harder to justify.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## terryR

Hard to compare a $20 chisel to a $50 one, IMO. There's a reason the LN's aren't on Amazon! 

I've been buying one or two LN socket chisels at a time for the past year and half…still no complete set…but most the ones I need. Used 'em to chop out 4" deep mortices on the bench, no worries. Handles are Hornbeam, should last my lifetime+. Never heard anyone buy a LN tool, and say wow, it wasn't all I expected for the money…


----------



## WillliamMSP

Thanks - sorry if I was unclear, but I'm looking more for hands-on experience with the Stanleys - I'm well-versed in differences of sales and distribution of mass-market vs premium products and those that land somewhere in between. I also know that, in most cases, you get what you pay for. That said, I'm also keenly aware of diminishing returns and I'd like to get an idea of whether or not others have seen some flattening irregularities (as did Chris Schwarz) or if those were aberrations and to know how well the Stanleys take and hold and edge in real world use.

If the quality of material is there and the differences come down to set-up time and intangibles and/or preferences, I'll likely take advantage of the sale price and grab the Stanleys.


----------



## Pezking7p

Bill, I say buy the chisels. How much more chisel can an extra $40 buy you?

I picked up the narex bench chisels, but I really don't dig the handle decal and color. Has anyone sanded these down or stripped them? Tips for refinishing?


----------



## terryR

Sorry, I certainly have no experience with the Stanleys. But, I do have hours of experience beating the heck out of a chisel with a mallet. AND, re-saharpening them for more work.

The premium Narex chisels are made from 'nicely tempered chrome-manganese steel' whatever that means. LN are made from A2, cryo heat-treated. Once sharp, the quality of steel holds an edge longer than no-name steel. I'm a knife maker, and collector. When a vendor doesn't list the EXACT type of steel used in a tool, it's because it's lower quality steel. Period.

What more could an extra $40 buy in a chisel? A hornbeam handle that you don't wanna re-shape or re-finish. Made in America quality.

The new Stanleys are made from 'chrome-vanadium steel'. Love the socket and the SW logo, but would like to know what type of steel is used…

Heck, price the Ashly Iles morticers…and ask how many users are on this forum? At $100 each with D2 steel, and more hornbeam for a handle, you're talking a tool that will outlast any of us. And works like a bull.

Sorry to sound harsh, but friends don't let friends buy no-name steel…


----------



## DanKrager

My main cabinetmaker chisel set is Stanley 60 in the full range of sizes from 1/4" to 2". I've pounded them through more wood than many have had in their shops. They are users, but taken care of…they don't open paint cans nor get used as screwdrivers! They sharpen easily enough and have been durable for me. Sharpened at one time to 25 degrees, I found the edge too brittle to chop mortises, so I went back to 30 degrees over time and bought vintage mortise socket chisels to do heavy chopping. I actually bent the 3/8" chisel by prying too forcefully, but it straightened without incident. I may go back to the 25 degrees or something in between because most of their use now is paring. I reshaped the 3/8" chisel with side bevels that almost meet the back for use in dovetail cleanup.

These chisels have a steel cap that was, I think, originally designed to make the handle more durable under heavy steel hammer blows by a carpenter. In the early days, I did use a steel hammer, not knowing any better and not having a mallet. When I came to the point of "doh", I bought a Vaughn dead blow hammer with replaceable faces. Now the caps are smooth, shiny, and are none the worse for wear. And that 2 lb hammer will drive a 3/4" chisel into a piece of oak like a small waxed nail in pine.

I also flattened one side of the handle on the 1/4" chisel to keep it from rolling off the bench, and to help with alignment in use.

I have no hankering for any other chisel set. Really.


----------



## WillliamMSP

You seem to be getting pretty defensive and that's not my intent - I'm not asking anyone to defend their purchases (heaven knows that I've assisted more people to spend more money than they ever intended) and I'm not questioning the quality of LN chisels (although I'd likely get a LV PM-V11 chisel if I'm going to be in that price ballpark). I'm simply seeing is anyone wants to share specific experience with these chisels because, yes, they're not an entirely known quantity.

Frankly, I'd be asking the same question even if they were A2, as I know that not all A2 is created equal. I'm no metallurgist, but I do know that small differences in additives and treatment can alter the balance of traits; it seems logical to me to ask about those traits rather than to worry about which method of cat-skinning they used.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya William, I'm surprised Smitty or Stef have not chimed in because I think that have a set of the new 750 SW. I have never used one so I can speak to their quality. I've used marples, Ashley Iles, and Marples. I'm with Terry on the point of LNs, they are perfect. 
And I don't think Terry is getting defensive, he's just passionate about quality tools and his principles of consumer responsibility. I share his ideals. I admit, it irks me a little that stanley is capitalizing on their quality, made in the US heritage….then manufacturing these reissues in Mexico.

One general "chisel buying" principle I would add is the marketinng "value" of a big set. It comes with 8 chisels. Does one use a 5/8" chisel often? I wouldn't. I've got a big till full of chisels. I use most occasionally, I use about 3 of them…A LOT. Just saying it's not a terrible idea to just buy the ones you'll use a lot.

All that said, amazon's got a good return policy. If your leaning that way already…give em a shot. If they're way outta flat, or genarally suck…send 'em back. Terry and I won't even say, "Toldya so." ;-P


----------



## chrisstef

Indeed I do have the reissue 750's. The issue is outside of some older Witherby's ive got nothing to really compare them to. Theyre good looking chisels, the handles are comfortable to me with decent balance. Out of the box they were in very good shape and took just a little bit of a time to dial in. They take a pretty good edge and, with stropping, they hold up to a good bit of abuse. I recently used them chopping DT's in some hard maple. I had to strop a little more than I would have liked but they did what I needed them to do. I don't really like them for pounding on. Id say that for a bench chisel with no real specialty theyre worth $20 a pop. If you want to bash mortises with them you probably wont like them. If you want to get into deep corners, you wont like them. Light paring, light beating, and general bench work are the upside to these chisels. Mine also came with a cool leather roll with a SW stamped on it. I like that.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mine is the review here on ljs. I use them, love them, and consider mine to be the premium set I own.


----------



## planepassion

So which chisels do you all prefer to chop your DT waste?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Typically retrieve the SW roll when dovetailing.


----------



## chrisstef

When I chopped for the only set of project dovetails ive done the SW's were the only set I used. The bevel edge worked nicely into the corners.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Thanks, folks - I've got a couple of the 750s on the way - should be here tomorrow or the next day. I'll buy additional sizes as needed (and dedicated mortising chisels as needed, too). If, 6-12 months down the line, I'm not totally thrilled with them, I'll replace the one or two most frequently used ones with PM-VII or something.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Cool. Did you miss out on the sale price?


----------



## WillliamMSP

No, the prices are still in place. Looks like they bought too many of 'em and need to clear out a little stock.


----------



## shampeon

Finished up shaping and finishing the 1/4" pigsticker with the leather washers..


----------



## AnthonyReed

Awesome Ian!!!

Nice work man.


----------



## shampeon

Thanks, Tony. Here's my mortise chisel rack, complete now.









L-R
1/8" Union socket, 1/4" Wm. Ash & Co., 1/8" Butcher mini, 9/16" Butcher, 15/32" N.P. Ames, 1/2" WB??, 7/16" Butcher


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Man those are pimp. I've never even held a real picksticker. Suddenly my life feels so empty.


----------



## shampeon

A 1/2" pigsticker is the "heft and hubris" of the chisel world….


----------



## upchuck

Shampeon-
Way cool set of pigstickers. Did the rehandled 1/4" get a piece of leather between the bolster and the handle too?
Do any of the others also have leather at either or both ends of your handles?
Nice work.


----------



## theoldfart

15/32" is close enough!


----------



## shampeon

Yeah, I added some leather between the bolster and the handle. The 1/2" one has that as well, but no leather on the end. The Union 1/8" socket chisel has leather washers on the ends, and I kind of liked the idea, especially since I used a cherry cutoff for the handle of the 1/4". The leather will take the abuse better.

BTW, if you're looking for cheap leather for these purposes, I went on Etsy and searched for leather scrap. Got a sizable box of thick vegetable tanned leather scraps for $12.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Cool Ian! "Handle? Now that's a handle" he says with and Australian accent.


----------



## Brit

Check this out. I bet there aren't many of these left in the world.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Holtzapffel-Mahogany-Cabinet-Dyptych-of-54-Ornamental-Turning-Chisels-/390793121110?pt=UK_Collectable_ToolsHasdware_RL&hash=item5afd15cd56


----------



## WayneC

You better grab it Andy. Can we take this as a sign you're feeling better?


----------



## Brit

Too rich for me Wayne.

I'm a lot better than I was, but it will still be a while yet I think before I'm back to normal.


----------



## racerglen

Hang in Andy !
And even with the odd, sporatic sighting, it's good to "see" you again !


----------



## WayneC

Glad to see you are around Andy. Hope your back to normal soon.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, wondered where you went to! Glad to "see" you back again.


----------



## chrisstef

Andy said "back to normal" ... HA!! We all know damn well that you aint never been normal buddy.


----------



## WayneC

The normal level of abnormal?


----------



## bandit571

How about a couple "normal" chisels









might be a bit old, though









one for making square corners ( as long as they are at least 7/8" wide) and one to use as a slick?

The 1-3/8" wide Van Camp has a laminated blade, too…


----------



## WayneC

I've got a whole bunch of old ones. Many need handles. Need to decide if I am going to go that route, the Stanley Sweethearts, or LN.


----------



## Mosquito

I'd also throw Ashley Iles chisels into the mix… I love mine


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'm glad your liking the Ashley Illes chisels Mos. I mentioned awhile back that I bought their butt chisels because they were recommended as great chisels for dovetailing….and they are!

I like the short length…makes them easy to control with mallet taps. And the bevel edge is better suited for dovetailing. Check one out compared to an LN:


----------



## ColonelTravis

Bought two chisels today for $10. One was a 1/2" T.H. Witherby, feel good about that one. The other has only one mark I can find, unable find any info. about it anywhere. At first I thought it said "Pearcut" but after the photo is looks like "Rearcut"? Either way, I'm stumped. Anyone have info?

Thanks


----------



## upchuck

Col.-
I'd vote for Clearcut. I've heard of that name/stamp and I may even still have one with that stamp. But it would be in the 1/4" size and has a totally different font. It was block printing not cursive as I recall. If you find out anything about the manufacture, age, and so forth I would be interested.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Aha - OK that's it, thanks. Found one small reference to that brand, indicating it was from Montgomery Ward. What year, who knows. Haven't seen anything beyond that one link yet.


----------



## planeBill

OK, who has the Narex mortise chisels and what do you think of them? Again, Narex, this time the paring chisels they just put out. Gotta say, I like them but have not held them in my hands. Anyone have any of them and what is your impression?
Just a few quick comments. As for making leather washers for pigstickers or any other chisels, go to a shoe repair establishment and buy a set of leather soles used as replacements for leather soled dress shoes and use them for your washers. You will be pleased with the results and they will last a very long time, much more than the thin vegetable tanned stuff I saw being used.
Lie Nielsen vs Stanley debate, I don't have any LN's but do have the new SW 750's thus can only give my view on them. They are really hard to beat for the money, mystery steel or not. I know I used them to chop 48 dovetails before needing a trip to the stones. Whatever chromium vanadium is, its pretty good steel. Like everything else LN makes, Im sure they are worth every penny but I went East for my high end chisels.








I also love vintage, like these.


----------



## bandit571

Just a cheapy, rusty chisel, in the 1/2" wide size









Pay no attention to that old D-7 ightweight sitting behind it, it was part of the $6 deal…..

Will try to get back past the old edge, pits there, just a cheap paring chisel for that recycled wood I use..

Did get a Dovetail chisel made, from an old H-F 1/4" wide thingy









Needed to get back into a few corners









" Chop, fit, cuss, chop, fit, and cuss again. "









Might get the "Cuss" part down pat, before too long…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

PlaneBill- Man those pexto's look fantastic!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Anyone agree $94 is too much for this chisel? Wow…


----------



## Airframer

Yes…


----------



## ShaneA

More than I would want to spend. But it is what the market says it's "worth"


----------



## smokie

This is my go to chisel. I picked up at the local swap meet for $4. Nothing on the blade or handle other than 13 mm. But I can put a stupid sharp edge on it and it will last all day. Love it.


----------



## DanKrager

Ya Smaitty, $94 is a bit much. If I remember correctly I picked up a very similar one for about $25, which is more the ballpark I think. I've got a pretty complete set now, waiting for handles. 
DanK


----------



## Coppolinocarving

Can any one tell me about these chisels e.g. quality and if I paid to much 
the larger set I paid 70 for at an auction and the smaller footprint set I paid 10 for
and I am also in canada so our stuff is always a little more lol any comments would be great
thank you


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Footprint I have turn screws from, they're solid.

$70 for a new 12-piece carving set, I'd do it too. Let us know what you think when they've tasyed some wood!


----------



## thedude50

I have 5 complete sets of chisels and want to get a set of Japanese chisels am I insane


----------



## WayneC

Chisels are like potato chips.


----------



## JayT

About three months ago, I picked up an assortment of chisels at an auction.










Wanted to make a useable "set" of paring chisels, so sorted out the ones I wanted, gave them an Evaporust bath and finally finished making some walnut handles. I realize walnut may not be ideal for chisels that will be struck with a mallet, but I fully intend to use these for paring only.










I make no claims of being a turner, and a real turner would laugh at my setup-one of these and a cheap set of turning tools.










In spite of that, the end results are similar enough to work well, with the two larger chisels intentionally having handles a bit larger and longer.










Of course, it helps if you cheat. I hit a professional wood shop "garage sale" and picked up some spindles they had turned for $1 each. Then I just had to take them down a bit to a good diameter for my hand, while keeping the shape, instead of starting from scratch. Hey, whatever it takes to get the job done, right? Especially when you can get two handles out of each dollar invested in materials.










I made the handles quite a bit longer than the few original ones that were still on the chisels. The factory ones always seem so short and clumsy. A longer handle just feels and works better.










The original handles that were in good condition are labelled in case I ever decide to pair them back up for the sake of historical accuracy.

Now I just need to set aside a day for sharpening.


----------



## ShaneA

Well done sir. Adapted and overcame.


----------



## ToddJB

Great job, JayT. They look great


----------



## upchuck

JayT-
Love those vintage socket chisels. For paring chisels (light mallet taps at the most) walnut will work just fine and look super fine. The size only matters (long-short, fat-skinny) 1) where it connects to the chisel socket and 2) where it connects to you. Handle in the hand. And at a buck per you can modify, change, or whatever your heart desires. Go wild! 
A very nice looking set that will serve you well.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dang Jay, why didn't I think of that? Well done.


----------



## Brit

What a great idea Jay. I've never thought of using stair spindles for tools handles. Nice job.


----------



## john2005

I like where you took that JayT. Lookin good


----------



## AnthonyReed

Great job JayT. They look great.


----------



## waho6o9

Clean work JayT very good.

Here's a set of chisels from Sweden called Solliden

nice chisels that I'll clean up and put a razor edge on and

put to good use.


----------



## bandit571

Been driving a few chisels lately









Just chopping a hole









"Frame Saw" needs a bit of work, though


----------



## DanKrager

I bought these chisels here and there and have been sitting on them for awhile before spit and polish, sharpen and make new handles. Mixture of brands, but they all seem like good steel. Haven't been used in "production" yet, but waiting for the opportunity. The one big handle (not the corner chisel, which is razor sharp now) was epoxied in and would not break loose no matter what I did. I thought about drilling it out, but hey, it's a good handle. And I don't have a good way to clean the taper.

























DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, sweet looking tools and great job on the handles. Look to be mostly sash mortises.


----------



## racerglen

That's very nice work Dan, like the matchups that way..trying to do the same here, but matching up with a small set of my Dad's .


----------



## JayT

Nicely done, Dan.


----------



## ShaneA

Nice, the 3 in the ~1/8" range speak to me. Very attractive bunch.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Beautiful work Dan.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

beautiful work, dan! most excellent set you have now, congrats!


----------



## ToddJB

Chisel lovers, look here! I want your 750s

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/61210


----------



## JayT

Mmmm, nothing like a sharp paring chisel.


----------



## Bertha

posting to get to the bottom


----------



## Bertha

Very, very nice, Dan


----------



## 7Footer

Wow look at this hoss, I saw it on CL today for $125. It's 29" long and 3" wide, vintage shipwright timber frame chisel.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Nice.


----------



## ToddJB

Seems like a good deal to me, for someone.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanley-16-793-8-Piece-Sweetheart-Socket-Chisel-Set-Leather-Pouch-750-Series-/161333684018?pt=USHandTools&hash=item25903ca732


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## ToddJB

Lookin good, Don.Hickory?


----------



## donwilwol

scrap piece of Ash.


----------



## DanKrager

Hey DonW, good to see the result! Lookin' good! Fun isn't it? What's it going into? 
I just bought that same tapered cone tail center. Love it.
DanK


----------



## donwilwol

after picking up a $16 #720









I decided to do some work and sort out the junk drawer



















which brought up the need for a couple of handles










Each one got a little better. The two on the left are ash. The one without a chisel has a split out on the back, but I suppose its usable, then one made from a piece of cherry scrap, and the one on the right is locust.

They are still on the bench because I don't want to throw them back in the drawer, and can't decide on a rack or case style for them.


----------



## ToddJB

Nice family you've got there, Don.


----------



## DonBroussard

I picked up this tang chisel this week during a trip to Boston. Shop owner said he bought it in Denmark. Blade is a bit over 8" long and has "? PARKER&SONS, CAST STEEL 37?9" ; tang is a bit over 3-½". The hilt is level and very meaty. EDIT: BTW, the blade is ½" wide.



















I haven't researched it yet, but I plan to. This is my first mortising chisel. The plan is to make a handle for it and use it.

I do have a potentially silly question. When I make a handle for it, do I need to include a mechanical connection between the tip of the tang and the end of the handle to transfer the mallet blow to the tang? Would such a chisel have had a metal butt?


----------



## JayT

Nice pick up, Don. Most likely the chisel would have just had a hardwood handle-possibly with leather washers, but definitely not metal.

My best guess is that it would have had a handle of this style


----------



## shampeon

That, my friend, is a pig sticker. I've made a couple handles for them. One of them with leather washers, two of them without.

To make the mortise for the tang, drill a stepped hole to beyond the depth of the tang. I drew the outline of the tang on the outside of the blank, and then used a narrow chisel to slope the sides to match. When there's about 1/8" between the end of the blank and the bolster, you're ready to pound it home. If you want, add a leather washer between the tang and the bolster.

Now use a spokeshave, rasp, or small plane to shape the pigsticker handle. Here's the ones without leather washers:









Making the handle is a lot of fun, and easier than you might think.


----------



## DanKrager

Well said, Shamp. Don should be inspired to make a handle with that info…
DanK


----------



## waho6o9

Clean work Shamp, as usual.


----------



## DonBroussard

Shamp-Your chisel handles look great!, and great info on re-handling a pig sticker! Apparently, what I was calling the "hilt" is really a "bolster". Thanks for learning me the right word. Do your handles rely on friction fit, or do you epoxy them in? By the way, I like the idea of a leather washer between the wood and the bolster-I think I'll do that with mine.

DanK-I am inspired to make a new handle and the whack some mortises out of some wood. Not sure that I can promise that I'll have pics by the end of the day, but . . .


----------



## shampeon

Yeah, Don, just friction fit. The key is to get the tang tight in the mortise with about 1/8" space between the bolster and the end of the handle. If it's more like 1/4" the handle might split. If it's less than 1/8" it might be too loose.

Here's the one with leather washers:


----------



## Wolfdaddy

Yowza! I never really get a good sense of how big those things are until I see a pic like that last one.

A brief rust hunt today yeilded this guy…


----------



## DonBroussard

Thanks, shamp. I've seen the tutorial where Derek Cohen rehandled a pig sticker with the oval bolster. He uses a friction fit generally but does use epoxy to fill a too-large cavity before fitting the tang. I've seen several articles cautioning against using the heated tang technique to let the tang burn its way to fit.


----------



## bandit571

Outon the Rust Hunt this morning, found a Greenlee 1/2" out channel Gouge,,,,,for a $1.

Picked a File with a very good handle, for just the handle. I think I can graft that handle on to a 1-1/2" wide chisel from yesterday









Yeah, THAT wide one. And, since the first 10" brace was falling apart, found another one in much better shape….for $3 and it even had a 4/16 bit in it, too

And a look at those three items









About $7 for this pile of goodies…


----------



## DonBroussard

I used a piece of cedar to try out the handle-making process. I found it a bit tricky to get the tapered mortise to fit well, and to be square to the bolster. Next up is to remove the cedar handle and use some hardwood to make a real handle, and not one that looks like Fred Flintstone made it.










I was inspired!


----------



## shampeon

Cool, Don. I shape the handle after pounding the chisel in so I can correct for off-angles. You can probably do most of the shaping after getting it to 1/8" proud. But start with a slightly large blank of something that is tough enough to get pounded.


----------



## DanKrager

I've burned a lot of handles onto various stuff including pitchforks, shovels, and other stuffs. What's the caution about letting the hot blade make its home? They REALLY stick on when done that way. 
DanK


----------



## DonBroussard

DanK-While I haven't tried that technique, I did read that the tang becomes loose. Derek Cohen wrote "Another method is to roughly form a recess, then heat the tang red hot and allow it to burn the remainder of its hole. I am not mad about this method as a charred internal surface does not sound to me to have much strength." (Ref: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRestorations/Rehandling%20an%20Oval%20Bolstered%20Mortice%20Chisel.html). His wording suggests that he hasn't tried it either. Based on your experience, it sounds like maybe it's worth a try, then?

Edit: Another person cautioning against the burning in technique: "Also, forget about burning in or the tang will get too soft and bend." (Ref: http://forums.finewoodworking.com/fine-woodworking-knots/hand-tools/tips-rehandling-pigsticker)


----------



## DanKrager

The actual technique I've used successfully is to bore a hole slightly undersize. If a taper is involved, then I try to shape the hole to the approximate taper. While heating the tang to red hot, I soak the wood hole with water briefly. Having secured the tool firmly before heating, I shake the water out the hole and move quickly to place the handle and beat it on, stopping the beating when the sizzle stops.

I think the water part is what has been missed by many who try this. The extreme heat forces the water into steam keeping the wood from charring. Wood fibers collapse (not shred) around the steel. The interaction is such that the hot steel seems to be bonded to the wood, the chemistry of which I do not understand. It may be the same interaction you experience when putting meat on a hot grill…it sticks. (I've had my finger meat stick to a hot piece of steel…fortunately only a tiny spot, but still…) Of course it won't stick if the wood is dry and charred. And the rougher the tang, the better, up to a point.

I've never had the privilege of examining one that didn't stick to see what went on. Maybe someday.
DanK


----------



## DonBroussard

DanK-I like the idea of soaking the blank before inserting the tang. As you wrote, none of the posts I read mentioned using water. Make sense to me, and sounds like a plan. Thanks for sharing your experience.

BTW, is it okay to use a glued-up blank for the handle? Solid piece is preferable, of course, but will a laminated handle blank work? I'm not sure I have a solid hardwood blank the size of that bolster. I am absolutely certain that I don't have any hornbeam or osage orange either, but I do have some maple I could laminate.


----------



## shampeon

I don't see why a laminated blank wouldn't work. If you're worried about the blank splitting along the glue line, do a three-part glue up with the center blank having the tang mortise.


----------



## DonBroussard

shamp-I might even precut the tang mortise parts a bit undersize before glue up and see if that process leads to a better fit. I like DanK's suggestion above for the hot tang and water technique too.


----------



## shampeon

Just leave a some space at the bottom for the tang. If you do it right, it's like a large cut nail, bending the wood fibers and keeping it tight.

I'm sure the hot tang and water technique works. Given the size of the tang in most pigstickers, a good tight friction fit will not budge for a long, long time.


----------



## DanKrager

DonB, I don't soak the blank…just wet the hole for a bit. Let the water soak in the little ways it will go while heating the tang. As Shamp suggests, a good fit is extremely important. That is, a fit with room to drive home.

If you want some hedge I know where there's a whole bunch…. 
DanK


----------



## DonBroussard

DanK-PM sent about the bunch of hedge. I miswrote earlier when I wrote "soak". Definitely won't "soak" if I use a laminated blank for the new handle.


----------



## bandit571

Found a file theother day, not much to it, just a small file for metal. However, it did have way too nice of a handle. Got the handle off, ground a better end, and fitted it to a "new" chisel I bought for a $1









Stanley "Fat Max" is a decent mortise chisel. Been beating it into some Red Oak









Of course, the hammer might be a tad small?


----------



## ShaneA

I was lucky enough to pick this up recently on ebay. A tad less than $15 delivered. Been trying to score the 2" chisel for a while. I will clean, sharpen, and turn a zebrawood handle someday to match my others.

Now to pry away a 1/8"...for a reasonable price.


----------



## Buckethead

Good luck on that, Shane. I have become quit fond of my newly acquired 720s. I suppose I'm late to the game, and full sets will become increasingly difficult to put together.


----------



## ToddJB

Bucket, what sizes do you have? I have s couple spare 720s.

Share, very nice.


----------



## Buckethead

I've got 1/4, 3/8, and 1". Picked them up by happy accident. Two have new Ipe handles.


----------



## ToddJB

Just went out and checked. 1/4 was the only extra I had. Sorry to get the hopes up.


----------



## upchuck

Chisel fans-
Stanley socket chisels are one of the many, many things that confuse me. 
Questions:
1) #'s 720, 740, and 750 are all quality chisels? True/False
2) The only difference between these three is the length with #720 being the longest and #750 the shortest? T/F
3) I have some Stanley socket chisels that seem identical but are not marked as to the #. What's up with that?
4) I have some others that look identical but have a letter instead of a number. What's up with that?
5) Is a "Defiance by Stanley" that is shaped just like a #750 any good?

I have a chisel problem! I have a "Stanley / Made in U.S.A" that is 1/2" x 5 1/2" that is otherwise just like some #720's I have. I have two "Stanley / Made in U.S.A." 3/4" x 3 1/4" that are just like some #750's I have. I also have 40 to 60 other chisels I'd be willing to swap.

What you got? What you need?


----------



## ShaneA

#1 all quality chisels, desired…true

#2 720 is the longer paring chisel, the 750 is the bench chisel. 720s a bit more expensive.

#3 best I have found is that they are the same. Sometimes referred to as "unmarked", I read somewhere once they were made in a different foundry. Typically sell a tad less than 720/750.

#4 the D is for Defiance, I can't speak to the steel difference, typically go for a tad less money than unmarked or the 720/750

#5no experience on these for me.


----------



## upchuck

Thanks Shane.


----------



## Buckethead

Saul Goode, Todd. And I was using that variation well before any breaking bad writer. In fact, methinks they steals it from me.


----------



## ToddJB

Chuck, I've read that the D version used the same steel but they didn't polish them as much making them cheaper to make and sell.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Congrats on finally acquiring that chisel Shane. I know you have been looking for a bargain on one for quite a while.


----------



## bandit571

Ever see a Stainless Steel chisel?









I can just make out the last few letters of Craftsman on it. Barely. Handle was kind of beat up, taped up….









Made that old file handle to fit the chisel. took a bit of work to get it onto a lathe, the new handle, that is. Fitted to the chisel, and the edge sharpened back up









3/4" wide. Was using a big old red oak knot to drive the chisel onto the handle,,, knot was cut to pieces. Edge is mirror polished, and sharp.

But…Stainless Steel? I do have a couple Stanley-Atha cold chisels in SS….


----------



## Mosquito

A couple of days ago I bought a set of firmer chisels from the collection 489tad was selling on behalf of a friend… didn't have a place to put them, until after an evening in the shop

Crappy picture, but it'll hang on the french cleat I have on the wall in my shop


----------



## john2005

> Chisel fans-
> Stanley socket chisels are one of the many, many things that confuse me.
> Questions:
> 1) # s 720, 740, and 750 are all quality chisels? True/False
> 2) The only difference between these three is the length with #720 being the longest and #750 the shortest? T/F
> 3) I have some Stanley socket chisels that seem identical but are not marked as to the #. What s up with that?
> 4) I have some others that look identical but have a letter instead of a number. What s up with that?
> 5) Is a "Defiance by Stanley" that is shaped just like a #750 any good?
> 
> I have a chisel problem! I have a "Stanley / Made in U.S.A" that is 1/2" x 5 1/2" that is otherwise just like some #720 s I have. I have two "Stanley / Made in U.S.A." 3/4" x 3 1/4" that are just like some #750 s I have. I also have 40 to 60 other chisels I d be willing to swap.
> 
> What you got? What you need?
> 
> - upchuck


I believe Shane has the rest of the questions answered, but I am under the understanding (and may be wrong) that the Defiance line was marketed towards the home handyman. Lesser quality, but still a solid tool. Think of it as a Borg chisel, brace, plane etc of yesteryear.


----------



## donwilwol

John is correct. Defiance was a decent home owner line. At one point it was defiance for home owner, Victor for contractor-handyman and Bailey for professional.


----------



## bandit571

These two came in the mail the other day









The short one has a "W. BUTCHER" stamped on the blade. On the other side of that blade, looks like a face inside a circle ( old W. B. himself??) an arrow pointing towards the handle, and at the arrowhead, there is an *......

Not a mark on the longer chisel. Both measured out to be 0.155" wide ( 1/8"??). Seem to be decent mortise chisels…









Might just be worth the $25, counting shipping???

Suppose NOW I'll start looking for a few wider chisels…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I think these are from the days when Marples chisels were…..good.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111431806654?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## bandit571

Did get a 1/4" Mortise chisel the other day









Now I will need to learn how to put a good edge on it.

New Haven Edge Tool Co. is stamped into the side.









And there is a red rubber edge protector included.

Might just have a use for this one later. Seems the BOSS has decicded "we" need a new screen door at the backdoor.

Mortise and tenons, pinned and wedged in place. Won't need to use glue. Will be a paint job, though. Top half as a screen door, bottom half will get a pair of raised panels. "lock rail" will be a bit wide, as well as the bottom one. 3" stiles, too. We will see how long it takes to do a through mortise with this chisel….


----------



## bandit571

At a local "Tractor Fest"

LOTS of old tools for sale, and lots of old fools walking around

Found two chisels that seemed to be priced about right…for me









The wide one was stamped as a Jennings??? 1-1/4" wide.

The other has no stamped names, looks like a Stanley knock-off? 3/8" wide.

Price for the pair? $5 The 3/8' was laying there without a handle, found a handle laying there without a chisel attached, both seemed to fit the other.









Even saw a 2" wide roughing gouge in the tray! Fellow had two tents and three or four outside tables. Place had enough vendors, it took two hours just to do a walk by.

BTW: Low knob Stanley #7


Code:


 $35, and a high knob one

 $45. Low knob was also a "c" model, high knob had blue paint,....underneath a thick clear coat. Sheesh, All I had in me pocket was $6…..


----------



## DanKrager

Bandit, that 3/8" chisel looks to be a good one even if it doesn't nave a name stamp. Good find, man. 
DanK


----------



## bandit571

Starting to think I need to make a rack for these things









and, these are just the long bodied ones….

3/16" up to 1-1/2. Might be getting close to a full set…


----------



## Airframer

Just picked up an old set of Millers Falls No. 106C Carving Chisels. Gonna give carving a go… like I need more to do..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Nice. I recently got a knock-off set. They're fun. Seems like another woodworking tangent we could go off on;-)


----------



## bandit571

Yesterday's mail produced a small chisel

Eagle Brand

WARRANTED

"7"

1-1/2" wide firmer chisel, with a laminated edge. Socket style chisel, about 8" from tip of the bevel back to the socket opening. Came without a handle, of course.

Skinny slick? Eagle Brand? Hmmm?


----------



## Airframer

Carving chisels arrived. The edges need some work but all in all pretty good shape. Now I need some slips me thinks..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I need me some slips too. I've been looking at oil ones like this:
http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-Carving-Tool-Slips-P268C25.aspx

Are you going diamond Eric? Are there diamond slips?


----------



## Airframer

Thanks for the heads up on those slips Red. I went ahead and ordered the set of 4. Mostly because I am a total noob at carving tools and have no idea what profile I would need for these.

I also picked up the companion set for these chisels. The same vintage No. 107C palm chisels. Anyone have any idea what year these would be from? I am guessing 60's or 70's.


----------



## ToddJB

I have a backsaw with that same Miller Falls Logo. I guessed it was from the 70s but nothing to back that up.


----------



## theoldfart

Just picked up my first gouges, a pair of Unions.









About a 1/2" or so in cannel and out cannel


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice Kev. I picked up a few recently too. I didn't even know there were in and out cannels. I'm gonna have to educate myself about gouges. And, learn how to sharpen them.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, when you do learn I'll send you mine! I have a couple of round slips but they are not large enough for these, so I guess I'll just use my 45 to make a few beads,grooves and add some honing paste.


----------



## ScaleShipWright

Greetings

I have just posted my last chisel project:


----------



## Brit

Tonight I did my usual trawl through the mortise chisels on ebay.co.uk. About a year ago I started a collection of I. Sorby mortise chisels (preferably with the punch logo and leather washer) and so far I have two, a 1/8" and a 5/16". I'd resigned myself to the fact that it was going to take some time to acquire a set, but all of a sudden I find my wallet £50 lighter and the proud owner of these beauties. From top to bottom they are 1/4", 5/16", 3/8", 7/16", 1/2". So I'll replace the second one down with the one I've already got of that size and add my 1/8" and end up with a nice set of 6 chisels once I've restored and sharpened them. Gotta love that boys!


----------



## Mosquito

Very nice Andy. They look great


----------



## chrisstef

Get me a bib. Full set of sorby pigstickers. Drooool.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, congratulations. I have one punch logo and have been on the lookout like you. Looking forward to a full family photo.


----------



## Brit

Thanks guys. What are chances Kevin? I couldn't believe my luck.


----------



## theoldfart

I don't know Andy but I'm about to sacrifice a chicken or two to the Wood gods.Maybe some good JUJU will shine on me!


----------



## donwilwol

I think Andy wins the chisel pick of the year. Sweeeet!!!


----------



## Brit

Yipeeee! - The Sorbys arrived. Sorry about the crap photos, but here are the first family shots.

The one on the left is the 5/16" that came with the set which has a trashed handle, but still a good blade. It looks like the handle has been abused with a metal hammer. It has a few old woodworm holes, some big splits, and some mushrooming. That handle will need to be replaced when I get around to restoring these. I swapped that with the 5/16" that I already had (3rd from bottom) and added the 1/8" that I already had. At this point I'm not sure which of the 5/16" chisels I'll keep. The rest are in great condition for their age and have been well looked after. They are all I. Sorby and all have the punch logo apart from the 1/8". Not bothered about that though really.



















Notice how the handles are matched to the size and weight of the blades. I wanted to try to convey just how big the handles on the two larger sizes actually are, but you really have to hold these mothers to appreciate it. Whilst I don't have huge hands, they're not the smallest either and I can't wrap my fingers around them.



















Perhaps the best comparison is to put it alongside a 3/4" Irwin Blue Chip chisel.










Just for giggles I measured the circumference of the handle at the largest point and it was bang on 6". The 1/2" weighs in at 20oz. and measures 13 3/4" long. That's enough to scare any wood.


----------



## upchuck

Brit-
That is the finest set of pig stickers I have ever seen. I have wondered about the utility of the leather washer between the blade and the handle. Is it needed? And I've wondered why pig stickers rarely had ferules. 
Considering how much they get bashed wouldn't a ferule help prevent handle splitting? Both of mine are without handles now. One was purchased without the other's handle was split. I'm replacing the handles with a reused ash baseball bat. Thanks for the information on the proper size.
chuck


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, that 1/8" is a mongrel so you can send it to me 

Awesome set. It is my dream, two down and a lot more to go for me.


----------



## Brit

*Kevin* - Once I decide which of the 5/16" chisels I'm going to keep, I'll gladly send you the other one. It won't be for a while though, as I need to stay focused on getting the workshop finished, but I won't forget. I'll be in touch once I've made my mind up.


----------



## Brit

Chuck I just spent ages typing a reply to your questions, thought I'd posted it and closed the browser. Then I saw Kevin's post and came back and my post to you wasn't there. Bollocks! I'll type it again in a little while.


----------



## theoldfart

*ANDY*, thank you. I was joking about the 1/8", they are harder to find than the other sizes and your fortunate to get one. The 5/16" will be treasured! I remember a recent article in either FWW or Pop W that showed how to burn the tang into the handle. We are leaving for a two month road trip tomorrow but when get back I will try to post it here.


----------



## Brit

Ok let me try again Chuck. The leather washer certainly isn't needed. Some would argue that without the leather washer, all of the force is transmitted to the cutting edge and that a leather washer will absorb some of that energy. I suspect they are right, but having felt the weight of these chisels, I doubt it makes the slightest difference in practice. You don't need a lot of force to make these chiseld cut wood effectively. The new Ray iles chisels don't use leather washers and neither did many of the vintage makers.



















I suppose you could argue that a leather washer negates the need for a really good fit between the flange and the end grain of the handle. Although Sorby weren't the only manufacturer to use leather washers on mortise chisels, they do have a long history of incorporating washers on their chisels and still do so today on many of their lines, so it could be more for aesthetics, or the simple fact that they were in vogue when these chisels were made.

As to why pig stickers don't have ferrules, some did.










They weren't very common though. I would guess it was down to the way they were manufactured. You would start with a rectangular shape and drill/chisel the hole for the tang. Then you fit the handle to the blade and shape the handle until it meets the flange correctly.










If you used a ferrule, you would have to a) make an oval-shaped tapered ferrule, b) fit the ferrule to the handle before assembly, c) try to avoid the ferrule when shaping the handle with a sander or edge tools. Not impossible, just not really necessary due to the generous proportions of the handles.

The fact that so many mortise chisels have survived is probably proof enough that they weren't really needed. Sure there are also a lot of chisels with split handles, but in most cases that is down to misuse more than poor design in my opinion.


----------



## DanKrager

Now it's Andy's turn to be jealous. These were dropped off today for cleaning and sharpening as TOF and his wife headed westward. The stick next to them is a honing stick with 600 wet or dry paper on one end and micro chromium honing rouge on the other. In cannel gouges are particularly difficult to sharpen well. The only thing I've encountered more difficult is a vintage mortising corner chisel. These came out nice and are ready to ship back when TOF returns home.
We had a great coffee hour getting more acquainted.

















DanK


----------



## Brit

They're beauties. I've yet to acquire any gouges, but I doubt they will be as nice as those when I do.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Is it possible to convert an in cannel gouge to an out cannel….simply by grind off the bevel, then grinding the bevel on the outside? Just curious?


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, your done already? Guess I,ll have to leave my wife here in MO AND RUN HOME! Think she'll mind?

Dan thank you, and I can't wait see them. Next time around I'll bring my corner chisel


----------



## DanKrager

Yes, BRK, one can do that if one can stand to lose that much steel. These gouges were identical except for the bevel. First thing that would happen if I did that is I would want it back the other way. DOH! 
DanK


----------



## bandit571

Have a Greenlee like that..

However, needed to make a few square holes tonight









And, they had to go all the way through









HATE chopping mortises in pine….


----------



## BigRedKnothead

DanK- I see. It's tempting on some vintage gouges where there's plenty o' steel. Course, I'm speaking only about easing the sharpening. I need to work with both types to see if there is a big difference in use.


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, I'm not world's best expert in this matter, but from what I've been able to observe from having used gouges of just about every type is that the different sharpenings open options for each that are very difficult at best for the other style. I.e., you need both to be well equipped. For example, unless you have a crank handle, it is difficult to ease an edge with an out cannel sharpening. Even then you run into situations where grain direction requires a different tool that makes a similar cut. (By the way, I've never seen a gouge with the crank handle opposite the concave side.) Lengthy gouges and crank handled ones were used by pattern makers to create fillets and ease edges in the wood mold. One could not afford the slightest tearout, so extreme care was taken to use straight grains, but you know how wood is. So different sharpenings allowed clean cuts for most situations. In cannels (especially crank handled ones) are useful for truing up linear moldings, while the out cannel may be more useful for relief or decorative carving. In decorative carving there are situations were the curve of the worked surface causes too much interference for the out cannel to be successful, so the in cannel is used to make the cut because the handle is out of the interference. Stuff like that. 
DanK


----------



## realcowtown_eric

Chisels…..oh ya! .

Invested very little in sharpening gear, well maybe not for the cratex wheels, thanks mostly to GS finds. Started off with scarey sharp, ended up with diamond stones and deburring wheels.

Them GSales have yielded a plethora of bits and pieces of carving tools over the years, some of which can be rehabed, some of which cannot (too much pitting)

Jooltools/diamond stones/deburring wheels/SiC and cork belts, why this po boy even has a power hone from some defuncnt barber shop. 
!http://www.oldtoolphotos.com/toolphoto.asp?photo=255

And a ton of chisels waiting for handles….

This becomes a round-to-it project that has gotten away from me….

Eric


----------



## upchuck

Brit-

Thanks for going to the trouble twice to answer my questions about the leather washers and the ferrules on pig stickers. Joshua Clark from Hyperkitten and Joel Moskowitz from Tools for Working Wood also go to some great lengths about the "proper" way to rehandle pig stickers. I totally agree with you that misuse is the bane of the flea market dogs I see and buy. Both of mine had bolsters that were strange. My 1/8th" Isaac.Greaves pig sticker was comically abused. 1/2" of its tip was broken off and it had a side to side wave in it as if it had been used to regularly open paint cans for the past 40 years. But the strangest thing about it is it's bolster. If it is held tang up the bolster will hold several drops of water without spilling over (eg:it's concave). The other one is French I believe. It is 9/16th" and is marked "Peugeot Freres/Acier Fondu with a lion standing on an arrow. Part of this one's bolster was bent upwards (towards the bevel) at an absurd angle. I've corrected these flaws with my elementary blacksmithing skills and now it's time to stick handles on them. I don't see how I can get a good fit between wood and steel of the 1/8" one without a leather washer or some major file work. I'm using ash from an old baseball bat. Do you have an opinion about the best orientation for the growth rings for a chisel that will get beat?

Thanks again.

chuck


----------



## Brit

I would try and get the growth rings running as shown below:


----------



## upchuck

Brit-

I asked a poorly worded question. Should the growth rings run in line with the bevel or perpendicular? Like the forth photo in your post #1901? Also, those are some huge handles.

chuck


----------



## Brit

Good call Chuck. Do it like the handle in post #1901.


----------



## AnthonyReed

A link to post #1901 for future readers. 
.
.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

A couple of 1/2" socket chisels that had been bopping about aimlessly were given a new lease on life… Newly turned hickory handles and a 'skew' grinding has made them dovetailing tools.










One's a Defiance, the other a Buck Bros.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

anybody else use jewelers loupes to look at the edges?

eric in calgary


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice Smitty. I've been thinking about picking up some vintage chisels for the same purpose.


----------



## dbray45

Eric - Mads used a microscope to do a comparison. I go by feel.

Smitty - very nice indeed


----------



## ToddJB

Nice Smitty, I have picked up two 1/2 inchers about a month ago with the same intended purpose.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I hem'd and haw'd for several weeks on this, thinking I'd screw up the grinding or create lousy handles. Realized Sunday I had zero at stake and just did it. Now I'm looking forward to doing a set of half-blinds!


----------



## jmartel

I need to get a grinder so I can make some chisels and other tools like that.


----------



## JayT

Nicely done, Smitty. I need to look through what I have for duplicate sized chisels and do the same. Have you had much of a chance to use them? Wondering if 1/2 is a good width or if 1/4 or 3/8 would be better.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

JayT, no, I haven't had a chance to use them other than on the little bit of tool-holder stuff made for the wall hung; these were on the bench and got pressed into service as paring chisels… Would you believe each of them had a propensity to slide into the cut, point first? Once I got used to them, I liked. They each need some work on the DMTs, though, as the edges are straight off the grinder at the moment.

I'd think 1/2" or 3/8" should be ideal for 90%+ of the situations they'd be used in, but that's purely speculation / guessing on my part. If you do mostly small-ish work, maybe 3/8" would be better. Looks like L-N made 1/2" and 3/8" skews.


----------



## ToddJB

Schwarz has an article about making them

He suggests 1/4 or 3/8, but I have two 1/2, so mine will be 1/2.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Todd- that is an excellent reminder to consider grinding / filing away the side wall flats of bevel edged chisels. Something else I might do on these skews.

EDIT: I ran across the "For Sale" post the Schwarz made for selling his L-N skews (3/8"), so I guess he uses regular chisels with the zero side-wall thing to finish out tail sockets.


----------



## DanKrager

Smitty, a while back I got a whole box of Buck Brothers half inch chisels for "you suck". I skewed two of them, left and right, grinding the edge bevels to near sharp on both sides. !/2" has done everything I needed, but I don't make tiny dovetail sockets, usually. 
I also rounded the end of one of the 1/2" chisels to a full semicircle. It is truly surprising how useful that has been for trimming plugs, removing glue drops (within range of the blade). Used with the flat side down it shears end grain better than the skews! Much easier too.
DanK


----------



## Airframer

Though I am sure you guys are tired of hearing about it but, I finished up another small tool for the boys box today. Knocked this out in just a few hours. I made it wide enough so he can't get the blade in his mouth and chew on it (and possibly fall on it impaling himself) but it is patterned after my Narex chisels.



















I pondered making a second size but I seriously doubt he will be searching fro more than one chisel at his age lol.


----------



## lateralus819

Has anyone made their own chisels from HSS? I've read of people doing it, was curious how it compares?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Eric - Seriously awesome kid's toolkit you're working up. Someone else said it, I'm happy to repeat it: Has to be heirloom material for sure.

I'm not a chisel maker. Sawdust and shavings, yes. Tools? With so many old / used one out there needing homes, no need to make anything. That's what I tell myself, anyway…


----------



## ToddJB

Man, Eric, have you considered the following years, yet? How are you going to top these? Apparently no one ever thought you to set expectations low at the beginning and build from there.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Though I am sure you guys are tired of hearing about it …
> - Airframer


Uh no. Might not always have the time to comment, but we never get tired of you doing your best to be an awesome dad.


----------



## racerglen

Eric, an amazing production run !The boy has a very fine Dad .


----------



## DaddyZ

Nice set of tools there Framer, Lucky Boy…


----------



## bandit571

Made a small rack to hold a few shorter chisels









no, they ain't stanley branded.


----------



## Mosquito

looks good Bandit!


----------



## bandit571

This one, and maybe one other for the WIDE chisels are to be attached to the inside of Tool Chest #1. Although I am keeping the tote from that chest, not happy with the other trays. All the wood bodied planes will be on the floor of TC#1 then a few items screwed to the sides. Work-in-progress…...


----------



## Slyy

Ummm how have a never read this thread before…..


----------



## theoldfart

Jake, just another slippery slope.


----------



## ToddJB

> Ummm how have a never read this thread before…..
> 
> - Slyy


Sheltered


----------



## Slyy

I'd have to agree with both of you!

Todd, my wife may have been intentionally keeping me away…. Shhhhh!!!!! Don't tell her!!!


----------



## john2005

> Man, Eric, have you considered the following years, yet? How are you going to top these? Apparently no one ever thought you to set expectations low at the beginning and build from there.
> 
> - ToddJB


If they did, the next few years are going to be very interesting.


----------



## bandit571

Have a Millers Falls 1/2" chisel on the way, witha red Permaloid handle

waiting to see IF it was worth getting…....

If not, then it will go to FeeBay with the Fuller, and that black plastic handled Craftsman 1". Fuller is 1-1/8" Same store was selling Blue Grass items at the time…...LONG time ago…


----------



## bandit571

Has arrived today. Sharp little critter. Not a marking of any kind on it, either. Photos will be later.


----------



## Brit

Remember the set of I. Sorby mortice chisels I posted a while back.










Well I cleaned the blades up, filed in the correct 20 degree primary bevels and sharpened the secondary bevels at 35 degrees over the Christmas break. What a lot of work that was. :-(










I feel bad though because when I posted them before, I thought I had two 5/16" chisels and I promised I would send Kevin the one I decided not to include in the set. Well it turns out that I don't have two 5/16" chisels at all as one of them measured in at 9/32". Since it is different, I'm going to hang on to it and keep it with the set. So now I have a set of seven I. Sorby pig stickers of the following sizes.










Sorry Kevin, it was an honest mistake. I do have a nice 7/16" John Green with a lovely handle that I'll happily send on to you if you PM me your name and address. I know it isn't an I. Sorby, but it is a nice chisel that will keep you going until you find some more Sorbys.


























Now that the blades are all ready for use, I'm going to make a new handle for the 5/16" chisel in the middle. I have an old wooden Jack plane that will act as a donor for some dry seasoned beech. Once that is done and the other handles are freshened up, I'll post some finished photos.

As an aside, I found out that the punch trademark and the I. Sorby trademark are nothing to do with the ancestors of the Robert Sorby firm we know today. The punch trademark was first registered by Joseph Turner in 1859.










The punch logo sometimes appeared on its own, or with I. Sorby underneath it, or with I.S. underneath it.










Joseph Turner was part of Turner, Naylor & Marples formerly known as Sorby (no relation to the Robert Sorby line) and Turner.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, can't blame you in the least. Wonderful set of stickers. I'll send along my address shortly.


----------



## Slyy

Andy they came out looking great and ready for some heavy duty chopping. Still can't get over how gargantuan those handles really are, the previous pictures of your tiny carney hands holding onto one of them really does better justice to their size! Now just need some actions shots. Always amazed with your historical sleuthing too, appreciate the short trademark write up.


----------



## ShaneA

Jake just accused Andy of having squirrel hands.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Wow!

And thanks for the edification.


----------



## RichardHillius

I agree with WayneC about the chisels like potato chips thing. You really can't ever have enough of them.

I love my Lie-Nielsen socket chisels. They hold a edge like a dream and are really well balanced. My only complaints is you have to adjust how you use them when paring compared to the old Stanley 750's because the sides of the chisels are sharp enough to draw blood.

Having said that I also have a good number of Stanley 750's that are really nice to work with. I tend to use my Lie-Nielsen's for pounding on and my 750's for paring to the point where I have been slowly dropping the bevel on the 750's down to 20-25 degrees.

I also have a bunch of antique English pig stickers and some long bladed paring chisels that really work well for what they do.

But probably my favorite chisel is a old 2 1/2" buck bothers socket chisel. Having a really wide chisel is endlessly useful when paring and its edge holds up quite well.


----------



## Brit

Thanks for being so understanding Kevin. I was quite surprised to find that two of the chisels measured in 32nds of an inch because I remember reading in Joel's blog over at Tools for Working Wood that they came in increments of 1/16". I guess he was mistaken though, as I have two that prove him wrong.

For those interested in reading more about the Sorby history, take a look at this post on the UK Workshop forum.
http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/mr-punch-first-appearance-i-sorby-t82871.html

...and this link to the history of the Robert Sorby line.
http://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/companyinfo.htm


----------



## Slyy

Wow Andy, looking through the post at UK Workshop, man that's a lot of history in there! I really like the picture of the Punch Brand display case with all of the various tools inside. Don't tell America but I'm jealous of your country's lengthy history at times!


----------



## Brit

Yeah Jake, that display case is really something isn't it. One day I'm going to take myself to the Kelham Island museum. I used to live much closer than I do now, but didn't know about it then.


----------



## bandit571

Found a home for a few of my "ordinary" chisels









They be just hanging around. Still trying to find a place for this thing









No, they are not Stanleys. Half say "Sears" on them…


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, interesting aside on that display case, No Pig Stickers! Too heavy handed maybe?


----------



## Brit

They probably couldn't fit the huge handles under the glass Kevin. LOL.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy grinding mortis chisels can be tough. How did you grind the primary bevel? I used a powered waterstone without realizing that a hollow grind would be to delicate. Yours are nice and flat. I need to know


----------



## Brit

I set my bevel gauge to 20 degrees and used a permanent marker to mark the side of the chisel at 20 degrees. Then I clamped the chisel in the Workmate and filed the bevel down to my line. When you file near the tip of the chisel, you hear a change in tone as the file makes contact with the hardened strip. I then switched to a diamond file for the last few strokes and finished the bevel off on my coarse, fine and super fine diamond stones. It isn't quick, but it works.


----------



## Slyy

Some of this has been posted before but I get a kick out of watching the video interviews on this channel with Mr. Hawley. Dude knows a thing or two about old tools.


----------



## DanKrager

Brit, I'm curious. Could these pig stickers be metric? If that be the case, the odd 32nds might be simply the closest English equivalent? Just guessing… I'm too tired to do the math tonight! 
I've seen pig stickers listed in metric dimensions which gave me the idea. Some chisels I bought were listed SAE dimensions, but were closer to a whole number metric dimension. 
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Andy


----------



## Buckethead

That was a fun vid, Sly. Thanks!


----------



## Brit

Dan - I don't think so. 9/32" = 7.1438mm and 13/32" = 10.3188mm.


----------



## DanKrager

Ya, ate some food, Brit, and the calculator worked better… 
DanK


----------



## planepassion

Andy, your pig sticker set came out beautifully. Thanks for sharing the history too. Do you have any planned projects on your schedule to put those amazing chisels to work upon?


----------



## Brit

Thanks Brad. I made a replacement handle for the 5/16" tonight. Got the first coat of BLO on it and I'll give it another coat tomorrow. I've got lots of projects in my head, but who knows when they'll all get done. Looking forward to finishing my workshop in the spring and getting some of my tools up on the wall.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, I'll save you some time on mounting the tools on the wall. Send me ALL the pig stickers. There , now didn't that make things go faster?


----------



## Brit




----------



## theoldfart

Haha


----------



## Slyy

Buddy Christ is always a winner in my book!
Kev, it was certainly a nice try though!


----------



## theoldfart

One's gotta do what one's gotta do, it's the law!


----------



## russde

Been quiet here…but since I just made a CL purchase and I'm trying to break out of the 'lurker' status:









$80, the 1/2" has been used a bit and has some rust as does the 1/4", but none of them really show any mallet marks, so essentially are unused.
I'll get 'em cleaned up and sharpened once the garage is a little warmer (hate using the water stones when the temp in below 50'ish)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Firmer chisels, very nice! Those in addition to bevel-edged, or ? And congrats on poster status!


----------



## theoldfart

Today was a good day. A package arrived from across the great water









Something special inside









Thank you Brit! The 1/4" was a nice surprise, I was expecting just one sticker.

Almost a full set now









Also picked up a 1/2" set of Narex skew chisels from CL for $15. Yup, a good day.


----------



## ShaneA

Is the 3rd from the left a 1/8" 750? if so…you dirty, dirty dog.


----------



## DanKrager

We better alert TOF wife…Kevin is gettin' ready to do some serious cutting up! You do know, sir, those widgets can do more harm than skis. Looking' real good.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Shane, it is an 1/8" but no markings.

Dan, it's taken me a few years to collect these. I should have brought the corner chisel with me when we met. It's not square! the outside angle is less than 90 degrees. Not sure how to remedy that.


----------



## DanKrager

Send it out…can be remedied.

I want to figure out a way to sharpen them without doing it by hand. It may involve a large diamond cup wheel…IDK.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

The skews I mentioned before, never used!









Going back Sunday, I noticed a set of Narex mortise chisels in the box. Only one had been sharpened, got them for $45.

These will go in the Dutch chest, the pig stickers will stay in the English chest.


----------



## Cantputjamontoast

I was going to grind a couple of 1/2" garage sale chisels to skew.

Does anybody else use them and what for I mean what type of projects and tasks?

Thank you for relies in advance.

EDIT I'm sorry Eldest Flatulence -I read that to mean you never used them but not what you were trying to convey


----------



## DanKrager

I use the 1/2" skews I made on occasion, but on a lark I made another 1/2" chisel a round nose, and sharpened it back to the 30° cutting bevel all along the 1/4" radius. I use that a lot more for odd jobs like leveling a plug, cutting down a glue drop, or misc trim work like that. It seems to work a lot easier, cleaner, and is a lot easier to handle than the skews. 
DanK


----------



## donwilwol

Late frog Friday entry.


----------



## theoldfart

Can'tJam, I will use them for cleaning dovetails. DanK's idea makes a whole lotta sense for plug and glue cleanup, since you can "rock" the chisel back and forth.

DonW HUH? maybe you meant to be on the HPOYD…maybe


----------



## donwilwol

damn, that's twice. Sorry, wrong thread.


----------



## theoldfart

No worries Don, there's a chisel in there somewhere !


----------



## theoldfart

Here are some pics of a capital crime, my <90degree> the backs :-(. Checked with an LJ expert and the decision is to learn to sharpen a corner chisel on it till I get back to some meat on the back.


----------



## theoldfart

For some reason my pics wouldn't post


----------



## DanKrager

I sure would like to see any jigs you come up with to sharpen these difficult things. 
The best I've been able to come up with so far is a diamond file with a safe edge. I ruined a nice single cut mill bastard trying to sharpen mine, wiped the teeth right off because it was harder than the file. Cheap file?

I've been considering a diamond wheel of some kind, but the payback occurs beyond my life expectancy!
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Picked up a little sumpin' yesterday









Hardwood box even!


----------



## Brit

Very nice Kevin. You got a great deal on those.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, I got them for the traveling chest. They take up a lot less room compared to the equivalent pig stickers. It was $45 for everything and four of the chisels have not been used. BTW started to sharpen the Preston.


----------



## Slyy

Nice Kev, not that I need mortise chisels right now, but so far liking the performance of my Narex Bevel edge ones. Let us know of ya like 'em.


----------



## ToddJB

That whole kit was for the price of what one pig sticker has been going for on the bay recently.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Any Stanley #40 users out there?


----------



## Slyy

Stanley paring chisel Smitty? Not seen one before


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

This one is the next in production after the wood-and-steel (very collectible) Everlast series. This one is bevel edged, not really clear in the pic.


----------



## ToddJB

What do you mean next in production? Like this was the replacement for the Everlast series, or this was the step down in hierarchy?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The everlasts were #40s, so is this one. Like bench plane types, the way this chisel model was made changed even though the number didn't. Don't recall #50s, but the permaloids are #60 and up.


----------



## ToddJB

Got it. Thanks. Were the Everlasts and 750s sold at the same time? Why would one pick one bench chisel over another? I know one had the full metal shank, which seems better theoretically, so why offer the other?


----------



## Slyy

Inquiring minds want to know. As said earlier: I've never encountered that particular style Stanley chisel.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Full shank / indestructable vs. socket. Two distict models offered at the same time, yep.


----------



## ToddJB

So why are the 750s covitted over those 40s. Even now Stanley offers 750s as a premium chisel and a full shank fat max as a lesser bench chisel. Does full wood handles offer something that full shank doesn't?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Totally baseless opinion follows…

Well, the 'original' Everlasting chisels get prices that match, and sometimes exceed, those for vintage 750s. They're highly sought after, especially in good or better condition. I've seen pretty pedestrian prices for entire sets of the #60 premaloid chisels, not quite sure why. The 40s-50s era #40s, like the one I posted above, I haven't run across as often. Why? For the same reason, maybe, Type 15-17 Bailey planes aren't coveted; it's subjective.

I do think Stanley would sell a ton of vintage-style #40s if they'd sell them against the re-issue 750s. 'Problem' is, they do last forever. Lots on the market, 70+ years since they were last made. Pretty cool.


----------



## Slyy

Careful Smitty, you might start a revolution, upset the apple cart.


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks for your thoughts on that, Smitty. That's some food for thought


----------



## Brit

Check out this set of NOS Marples Shamrock bevel-edged chisels. Sexy or what?










More photos on ebay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/381175954840?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

What material those handles sporting? Some kind of composite stuff?


----------



## Brit

Can't quite tell Smitty. It could be beech.


----------



## racerglen

I inherited a couple of that series, shamrocks, think you're right Andy, Beech, mine are paring chisels.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Unusual flair at the end (maybe not for Marples; I'm a noob re: english tools in general of course), so I assumed it wasn't wood. Bad assumption.


----------



## theoldfart

Speaking of chisels, if anyone comes across a 1/4" lock mortice/swan neck, I'd be interested as long as it does't require a second mortgage.


----------



## racerglen

Tried L/V ? I have their one and didn't break the bank Kevin .
It's a Henry Talor, British made.


----------



## theoldfart

Glen, I was trying for vintage to start with. If I don't have any luck then the fall back is either LV or LN.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice starter set here (as seen on the 'bay):


----------



## Slyy

Sharp looking set there Smitty!
Don't know why but a green felt lined box of tools is always a beautiful thing!


----------



## rwe2156

I have a set of the Narex premium. Nice chisels for the money.

I think the steel is more important then the handle. I see no big advantage to socket chisels, other than you can remove the handle and either make a custom or longer handle for paring.

I am not overly impressed with the Stanley 750's.

For me, the thickness of the bevel at the cutting edge is of supreme importance, especially in dovetail work.

In this regard, the Narex actually has the 750 beat.


----------



## TheFridge

Any opinions on the lie Nielsen? Pretty much traded a 3 piece set of narex mortising chisels for a lie Nielsen 1/2" bevel.


----------



## DanKrager

I don't understand the difference between the Stanley chisel numbers 720, 750 etc. Quality of steel? Form? I can't quite see the difference…
DanK


----------



## upchuck

DanK-
I believe that the primary (only?) difference between the #720 and the #750 was length. That's when they were purchased new. I have some of both and I notice no difference in quality of steel. The #720 were longer when new. But I have one #720 1-1/4" wide chisel that has been sharpened down to 1" long before the shoulder. I am not sure if it has been sharpened past the hardened portion.
chuck


----------



## ToddJB

Dan, upchuck is dead on. The 720s were marketed as parring chisels. With both longer metal and handles. The 750 are the bench chisels. And I think the lesser common 740s fell somewhere between.


----------



## Brit




----------



## ToddJB

Nealy full length 3/4" examples with original handles. 720 on left, 750 on right.










About 13 and 9 inches respectively.


----------



## rwe2156

> Any opinions on the lie Nielsen? Pretty much traded a 3 piece set of narex mortising chisels for a lie Nielsen 1/2" bevel.
> 
> - TheFridge


They are no doubt one of the best chisels made today.


----------



## DanKrager

OK, question answered. I'll be posting some pictures when I get back to it. My next to last two came in today. Thank you, all.

DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Okay, I think it's clear what I found today for $4, but to the panel for judgement.

Stamped PS&W.










Here are the other two pics.



















Please tell me you believe it's a socket pigsticker, but if not, why not (what is it)?


----------



## ShaneA

Would it not be considered a firmer chisel Smitty?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's 1/2" square, all around. Not thin, like a firmer.

EDIT: Okay, they exist:

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/real-fine-ps-w-mortise-chisels-62452/


----------



## Slyy

Looks like a great score Smitty. Oughta look nice when Ya get it cleaned and a handle slipped on.

And you suck, of course.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

So far…










I will say, it's a heckavalotta work.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Okay, time put put this aside and get to other tasks for awhile.


----------



## theoldfart

Smity, I have a New Haven Edge Tools similar to yours. I had it pegged as a sash mortise chisel.


----------



## Brit

Nice work Smitty. It looks the business now. I have a PDF of a P S & W catalogue, but it does show any mortise chisels. I think your chisel is earlier than those in the catalogue anyway as they all have the PEXTO brand on them rather than P S & W.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thanks for the ID help, Gents. Andy, here's the best pic I can get of the mark.


----------



## racerglen

Funny, I've had this set for at least 20 years, purchased 1 by 1 from a local surplus store.









Prices ranged if memory serves, from a buck and a quarter to a couple of dollars, Czech made, no manufactures mark.
Then the other day I'm re reading a piece in American Woodworker where Frank Klause references an earlier test and included a picture of the chisels he'd checked out. Methinks these are Narex ? I've mostly used them for paring work although my boys did beat on them a bit, only steel comment I have is the edges were a bit brittle to start, too narrow an angle, but they take a finer than razor edge and hold it.
Who'd a thought..


----------



## dbray45

Smitty - it looks like the chisels used for removing upholstery tacks. It has a greater angle because it is not used to remove wood but to get under the head of tacks and pop them out.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

David - Wow, that's a lot of tool steel to make a tack puller. Those were really socket-type? Any pics of such a beast in the trade rags of the day?

Either way, the angle on my tack puller is halfway closer to that of a traditional mortising chisel (per the examples I have from Ray Iles), and when I have about an hour, the transformation will be complete.


----------



## dbray45

I have seen a couple of old ones that were socket and some that were not in a local furniture place. It may be a situation of, "this will work for what I need!" type of environment.

Either way, it looks like you got yourself a really nice chisel.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

And it's a major commitment to reshape the primary bevel of this beast. My grinder-turner arm is still tired. 

Thanks, David!


----------



## Tim457

Nice find there Smitty. The connection between the crank arm and handle on my hand crank grinder is getting wallered out so I'm tempted to turn it into treadle operated rather than replacing the handle. What I'd really like though is a model that can fit something other than 4" stones. Modern 6" and 8" stones are much easier to find.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thanks, Tim.

Funny you should mention treadles and stones. I have a whopper of a sharpening stone, one of those 3" wide, 16" diameter things without a home. Over the weekend I pondered a Singer treadle, modified to turn the Beast, with a small work surface next to it. That'd be the berries.


----------



## Tim457

> Thanks, Tim.
> 
> Funny you should mention treadles and stones. I have a whopper of a sharpening stone, one of those 3" wide, 16" diameter things without a home. Over the weekend I pondered a Singer treadle, modified to turn the Beast, with a small work surface next to it. That d be the berries.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I so want one of those large stones. I assume almost all of them were originally set up to be treadle operated, but some appear modified or the treadle mechanism is gone for one reason or another. Every one I see on CL so far they want $200 for and they are far away. Plus in Roy Underhill's book he says most of the stones were ruined by people leaving water in the trough for too long, but he doesn't say anything about how to tell the difference. I don't want to spend the money on one for use that is ruined.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Where r u, generally speaking? $200? Holy cow!


----------



## Tim457

I'm in the midwest and the stones for them were mined not that far from here, so the people listing them for $200 are out of their minds. They sit on CL for a really long time and then people give up I think. If they were close enough to go look at without making a special trip I would see if I could tell the quality then make a reasonable offer. It's on my list that I keep an eye out for one locally on CL or estate sales though. Eventually I'll find one that someone just wants to get rid of and doesn't think its priceless.


----------



## Mosquito

I always keep an eye out for one too. I once saw someone using one for a yard decoration, and wanted to knock on their door and see if they'd part with it, but I never did…


----------



## Brit

*Smitty* - I found the easiest way to restore the 20 degree primary bevel on my I Sorby mortise chisels was to use a 12" flat file. It goes pretty quick. You don't really want to grind the primary bevel and end up with a concave bevel. You won't be able to file the hammer welded hardened strip on the back of the chisel that forms the cutting edge with a normal file, but if you switch to a diamond file for that last little bit it works a treat. You want a secondary bevel of 35 degrees and the bevel should be a minimum of 1/16" for strength and to back up the cutting edge. Mortise chisels are not the province of micro bevels. Beef it up and beat the living daylights out of it thats my advice. LOL.


----------



## DLK

So much is a 3" by 9" diameter sharpening stone with out any other apparatus worth?


----------



## ToddJB

Made some chiseling racks.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

has any of you chisel afficianados seen a london pattern handle on a socekt chisel???

I cannot find any evidence of it.

Eric


----------



## DanKrager

Well, if you can stay tuned long enough, there's about to be. If you look at my Facebook header you will see a close variation. I have a set of socketed Stanleys that will get handled like these.
DanK
Edit: found this.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

I saw the tanged london pattern handles…a tad short on the octagon for my perspective, but to each his own.

Did not see socketed chisels….did I miss it??

Is that set the chinois chisels tools set???? If so how do you find them.I've seen them on ebay.

Eric


----------



## DaddyZ

Can't say I didn't do anything nice

one of you better jump on this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/W-Butcher-Sheffield-Plough-Plow-Plane-Iron-Blade-/371316968286


----------



## bandit571

Picked this pair of chisels @ $1 each at a yard sale.. 









Stamped as "DropForged" Germany BRT Zone

One seems to be about 1/2" the other a 1/4" Morise chisel. 









Blue and silver logo. 









STEF>>>> Quality .....TOOLS Ring any bells? Looks like a washer on the end


----------



## bandit571

Computer Brain Pharte…
There seems to be washer like oblects on the ends of the handles









So, IF these two should ring any bells of recognition?

Have tried the mortise chisel out, after a trip over the stones, not too bad. Not sure what wood is in the handles. Ferrels are steel.

Any ideas out there?


----------



## bandit571

Stadilla? Stahlwille? Would be post WWII barely. British Zone?

Seems to be decent enough chisels, at least for a dollar each…

Logos seem to have some gold in them, along with the blue.


----------



## upchuck

Bandit-
Name/brand beats me. But I agree that post WWII British Zone. I have one or two socket chisels that are marked "Germany British Zone". If my memory serves (?) I think the British, French and American Zones ended
and combined into West Germany in 1949 in reaction to the Soviet Zone (East Germany). WWII bombing hammered German steel manufacturing. Are your chisels marked with metric or imperial sizes? Imperial sizes would make me think they were made for export.


----------



## bandit571

No markings as to size, on either of them. The Drop Forged and BRT Zone are in english, though. Just measured the 1/2" size…right at 1/2" wide. Same with the 1/4" one, right at 1/4" width. Brits must have been selling stuff?


----------



## upchuck

Bandit-
Good point about "Drop Forged and BRT Zone" being in English. I don't think that the British were involved in the making of these tools. I just think that the logo indicates where they were made. England was badly hurt by WWII. Their economy and industry needed rebuilding also. I'd bet the chisels were made by Germans for sale to U.S. customers.


----------



## DaddyZ

oh well I guess no one wants a cheap mortise chisel


----------



## waho6o9

Not true Pat, thanks for the friendly advice


----------



## WillliamMSP

It'll be interesting to see what the final price will be. I'd bid on it if I thought that I had a chance in hell of figuring out how to get a handle properly fitted to it inside of a 6-month timeframe.


----------



## waho6o9

Who's 0***0 with (1006 redstar) purchases and just outbid me 
fiddy cents? LOL

Looks like I'll leave some money in my pocket.


----------



## waho6o9

Correction.

I just won the mortice chisel for 28.74 delivered. Thanks Pat and Kevin
your help was appreciated. Woo Hoo


----------



## theoldfart

Waho, I have a set of T&G planes with Butcher irons.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

I had this longish paring chisel lounging in limbo which had an old branch for a handle, so it was just crying to be the first for my London Pattern handle….


__
https://flic.kr/p/17226596510

I tried to approximate proportions, and think I got it half-arsed reasonable.


__
https://flic.kr/p/17414181955

It ain't quite a samuai chisel, but close at approx 17" long.

Eric


----------



## DaddyZ

Good job waho, now to see you turn that plane blade into a mortise chisel


----------



## pastahill

Hello Bandit it is a little late, but i think i can help you. If it reads Stahlwille then it is of course german. Stahlwille is still in production but now they are known for there high priced and very good drop forged wrenches here in germany. Stahlwille is in Wuppertal and this was after WW II in the British Zone.


----------



## bandit571

Pastahill: Danke! They seem to be decent enough chisels. The 1/4" one looks like it was re-ground to be a sash chisel. I guess a dollar a piece isn't too bad..for "imported" chisels..

Again, Danke!


----------



## bandit571

Ok, next item. Picked up a rusty old tool box today. Inside were a couple of chisels. Got them cleaned up, and a new handle on the longer one. 









Now the big question: The yellow handled one is just a no-name plastic handled 1-1/2 bevel edge chisel. There are a bunch of white stripes on the handle. But, no name anywhere on it.

The LONG chisel is 1/2" firmer/mortise chisel. Socket style. There is a name stamped on the blade:
T.H. Wilhem (??) Warranted

Ever hear of such? The new handle was turned on my lathe, from old Barn Wood scrap. Has a coat of BLO.

This is one LONG chisel. maybe a timber framer's? It was mushroomed when I bought it









And the box they came in. Cost a whopping $2 for the box, and it full full of rusty things.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

okay, who else has made London pattern handles? Lets see em… for either socket of tang.and how you made em. Maybe I'll learn something tp do better









Eric…..


----------



## theoldfart

^that's one for DanK


----------



## nakmuay

Maybe not a beautiful as some of your guy's scores, but I got all this for $100off kijiji. The chisels have never been used, most still have preserving oil on them. Now I just have to figure out what I'll ever use a 2" chisel for…..


----------



## DanKrager

Yah, Eric, they're all over my sites, FB, my web site, LinkedIn. I'm about to make 8 more for socketed chisel handles. All together I'll have 60 or so matching handles for chisel set and carving tools. You should see the giant lathe handles in same profile…I'll have to get pictures of them later.

I've already posted with pictures of the blanks.
DanK


----------



## upchuck

Bandit-
Any chance that that "T.H.Witlem (??)" is T.H. Witherby in disguise?
http://www.wkfinetools.com/hUS/edge_WETW/history/History-NM/p19.asp
This link might provide an image to help determine the identity.
If T.H. Witherby then you probably have a first class American chisel.
chuck


----------



## bandit571

Yep, that be the one! Looks like a type 3, maybe somewhere around 1915-1920?

Next will be an ID on the yellow handled bevel edged one.


----------



## upchuck

Bandit-
It's hard to tell exactly from your photos and I'm too lazy to dig out my potential examples…but what you have reminds me of 2-3 yellow handled Stanley chisels I have that I've converted to round nose carving tools. Yellow handled without the top striking steel. IMO they're not high quality tools for that either. I probably haven't seen/used them in the 21st century. Images should be available online.
chuck


----------



## JeffP

Newbie here…sorry it this is answered somewhere in the 42 pages of this thread…

but if you were buying brand new chisels for woodworking…what are the cadillac (or perhaps Bentley) of currently in-production woodworking chisels?


----------



## upchuck

JeffP-
I have no direct experience. But Blue Spruce, Ashly Iles, and Lie-Nielson are all spoken of highly in reviews and by those who own them. Or Japanese chisels?


----------



## realcowtown_eric

Don…I've searched various areas/loinks you posted and haven't found any London pattern handles….Can you send me specific URL. SVP. Some nice creative work BTW.

Eric


----------



## waho6o9

Japanese chisels hold their own as well.

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/search2/search.aspx?query=chisels%20sets


----------



## DanKrager

Eric, I just did a google search using "London pattern handles" and came up with hundreds of pages of pictures and links. You can go any direction you want with that.

My Facebook business page header is an array of LP handles on a few of my carving gouges.

Here are the giant handles I made for lathe tools. They are a real joy to use because of their mass. I made them from hedge (osage orange). I didn't put in anything for scale, but that's a 2" roughing gouge.









What are you looking for? A pattern? Dimensions?

DanK


----------



## JayT

> but if you were buying brand new chisels for woodworking…what are the cadillac (or perhaps Bentley) of currently in-production woodworking chisels?
> 
> - JeffP


There are several brands I would consider Cadillac type chisels-high quality and consistent. I'd add Two Cherries to upchuck's list.

If you are wanting Bentley/Rolls Royce, my dream chisels would be a set from Barr Quarton, plus the 1/8 & 3/8 fill ins.

If you like Japanese chisels, there are a few custom makers that produce fabulous tools, by all reports.


----------



## Brit

> Newbie here…sorry it this is answered somewhere in the 42 pages of this thread…
> 
> but if you were buying brand new chisels for woodworking…what are the cadillac (or perhaps Bentley) of currently in-production woodworking chisels?
> 
> - JeffP


Ok, maybe these are not really 'in production' chisels (more like made to order), but they sure are pretty. Made by Wilco Flier.










Website: http://wilcoflier-toolworks.blogspot.in/p/tools-for-sale.html


----------



## realcowtown_eric

latest "round-toit"

a london pattern handle on a socket chisel….probably totally anatheme










still wanna know if those are the chinos set of carving tools….and if they are, what's the steel ike???

Dan…Saw ye roctagonal saw jig on facebook

Here's mine on flickr…..That's an eiight point socket on one end….


__
https://flic.kr/p/17230214211

I wish I could devote more time to these endeavours.

Cowtown_eric in Calgary


----------



## TheFridge

> Maybe not a beautiful as some of your guy s scores, but I got all this for $100off kijiji. The chisels have never been used, most still have preserving oil on them. Now I just have to figure out what I ll ever use a 2" chisel for…..
> 
> - nakmuay


You won't use it often but it'll come in handy when you need it.


----------



## Airframer

I have actually become quite fond of using my 2"er to square up tenon cheeks.


----------



## bandit571

Seem to now have an "extra" chisel in the shop









Both are 1-1/2" wide. Might have paid a little bit more for the one in back…









Then I got these, because the others I have keep walking away..









Nail set has "Baltimore USA 62" plus a warning to wear safety goggles stamped on it. Seem to have trouble keeping track of nail sets too. Three pliers for a dollar bill? Works for me…


----------



## Tim457

> I have actually become quite fond of using my 2"er to square up tenon cheeks.
> 
> - Airframer


I'll be a gentleman and not make fun of Eric's 2"er, but I was also going to say wide chisels are good for things along those lines. 3" and larger slicks are used like that for large timber framing tenons and such. They can flatten and get right up to the shoulder quickly.


----------



## upchuck

> Now I just have to figure out what I ll ever use a 2" chisel for…..
> 
> - nakmuay


I use 2" chisels with an angled block as a jig to flatten the bed on wooden planes I've rehabbed. I've heard of plane makers using a 70 degree bevel on their chisels for that purpose but I haven't had the courage to try that yet.


----------



## DLK

To paraphrase Crocodile Dundee: Thats not a chisel, now this is a chisel:










A Stanley No. 8 in the background for comparison. I'm still working on the final restoration.

Its stamped several times:









P Lestage (stamped three times)
T. ?WITTH??
Cast Ste?? (Cast steel of course)
B Poire (Stamped over one of the P Lestage stamps.)


----------



## upchuck

Combo Prof-
Does this link help remove any of your question marks for your slick ID?



> http://www.wkfinetools.com/hUS/edge_WETW/history/History-NM/p19.asp
> This link might provide an image to help determine the identity.
> If T.H. Witherby then you probably have a first class American chisel.
> - upchuck


I'd bet that the other stamps were owner marks.
chuck


----------



## DLK

Yes, thanks Chuck. Looks like this slick is a type 2 T.H. Witherby (date seems about right too, the Gust Waara whose tool chest it game from was born in 1847) and I agree three other stamps are previous owners.

I hope I can save it.


----------



## upchuck

Don-
Not only can you save it but you must save it. If you won't, I will!
chuck
P.S.And tell us all about that handle. What kind of wood? How long?


----------



## DLK

Handel is 11 3/4 inches long. The knob is 2 1/8 inches in diameter, and the handle is 2" in diameter at its next thickest point. (Its also stamped P Lestage. He must have really loved this chisel.) Blade is 11 inches to where it meets the narrow of the socket. Socket is 3 1/2 inches long and 1 1/2 inches in diameter. Blade is 2 15/16" wide.

The overall length is 26 1/4 inches.

I have no idea what the wood is. Looks like stained beech, maybe.

I'm going to take it to a machinist. (If I can find one.)


----------



## Airframer

> I ll be a gentleman and not make fun of Eric s 2"er,
> - Tim


You're no fun.. I was standing wide open there.. well not that wide but you know…


----------



## Brit

> Handel is 11 3/4 inches long.
> - Combo Prof


It's amazing he could reach the piano. LOL.

Lovely slick BTW. I bet that is going to be a joy to use.


----------



## DLK

Ack…thanks Brit… funny misspelling/typo on my part.


----------



## DanKrager

Making handles for my chisel set has been one of those "I have to do this before I can do that, and before I can do that I have to do this other thing, then I can do something else…" and so forth. Finally, this part is working…









Four handles are done and fitted, five more to go. Yes, it's really good to know a machinist.

DanK


----------



## DLK

Sounds like my life. But I say "I want to do X, but they keep asking me to do Y".


----------



## DanKrager

Here is the intended result of all the "do this before you can do that" routine. All beetle kill ash from my property.
Before:








After:









I have three chisels left over, a 1" and two 3/4", one of which is NOS. The two 3/4" are 740 and the 1" is just stamped Stanley on the face, Made in USA on socket. 
DanK


----------



## nakmuay

> I have actually become quite fond of using my 2"er to square up tenon cheeks.
> 
> - Airframer


Haha, Phrasing!

Makes a lot of sence. I suppose I best sharpen the big guys up too, I got 7 of them polished up then abandoned it. They're nice and all, but it's a lot of work getting the machine marks off them all….


----------



## AnthonyReed

Outstanding Dan!


----------



## DanKrager

Thanks, Tony. I'm surprised the OCD people didn't comment on the two handles without my signature! I didn't realize I had forgotten to do that while they were still on the lathe, so I disassembled and remounted individually. All is well now. 
DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dan, those are some beautiful handles for sure! Very nice work (as usual).


----------



## Tim457

I agree, very nicely done.


----------



## DanKrager

Thanks guys, I'm gonna enjoy using them. Now I have two pretty complete sets, one sharpened at 30° and the other at 25°.

Now I'm up to making a tiny tool chest, a box to keep the chisels in. JFF, it's going to be a Sunday go to meetin' box cause the Gerstner chest won't hold a 13" chisel.

DanK


----------



## realcowtown_eric

I guess you gotta make yer own "gerstner" chest, bigger and better of course.

Why wouldn't you. There's not a heck of a lot of material in them and it's basic box-work

Eric
who has another one of those on his round-to-it list too.


----------



## bandit571

Been a busy weekend for chisels in the Dungeon shop









Straightened out the one 1/2" chisel, and sharpened it up
Rehandled the other 1/2" chisel, and sharpened it up.
Cleaned and sharpened a $0.25 Buck Brothers Sash chisel. 1/8" wide, no less
Just finished up a MULLER 22 7/8" chisel. Had to reshapen it into a single bevel, and add a few punch marks to tighten the top ferrel.

Never heard of Muller, though. Been finding a lot of names lately, that I've never heard of…









Right out of the shipping box. 









Hammer and a nail set to add a few extra dimples









and, the new edge. Cleaned up nicely. Maybe a german import?


----------



## Tim457

That 1/8" chisel is pretty sweet. Which one did you rehandle? All 4 look vintage.


----------



## bandit571

Second from the top, is the rehandled one, a Fulton brand chisel.


----------



## TheFridge

Need to get me one of them 1/8"ers.


----------



## putty

Just got this buy it now! These appear to be unused, anyone have any thoughts about the quality of Greenlee chisels?


----------



## DanKrager

Greenlee is one of the best and probably least known USA made tools. Since it is manufactured in IL not too far from my home town, so I've been more exposed perhaps. It is a top of the line brand in just about every tool they make.

And no, my uncle doesn't own the place…
DanK


----------



## racerglen

Answers a question I posed a while back Dan, I'd picked up one of their 1/2 " gouges, like new and wondered about quality.


----------



## bandit571

Apparently, that Mulller 22 is now a part of a line by Puegeot? Chisels are a bit more "modern" looking, but still about the same "under the hood" right down to the thin metal ring at the top of the handle.


----------



## putty

Thanks Dan, I was aware that they made tools for the electrical trade, was not too sure about their woodworking line.


----------



## DanKrager

I'm going to post two pictures, one here and one in another thread, just for fun to see if anyone can figure out what I'm doing. The pictures tell part of the story and their location (where posted) tells the other part.
Who would have thought that a 2" chisel would be useful in a 1/8" basket weave carving!









DanK


----------



## ShaneA

You are carving a basketweave with a 2" chisel…what do I win?


----------



## MNclone

I try getting most of my hand tools at estate sales, Craigslist, and such, but am having a difficult time finding a decent set of chisels. 
I'm currently using a super cheap Stanley set and a couple of new Craftsman variety and am ready to go find a new set.
I've seen some decent reviews for Narex chisels from Lee Valley. Is this the way to go for a lower priced chisel, or should I take a better route.


----------



## HerbC

I just bought the Buck Bros 9 piece bench chisel set" from Craftsman Studio. These chisels are made in the USA and carry a lifetime warranty. They are "hand forged from specially modified high carbon tool steel hardened to Rc59 and tempered to produce a sharp long-lasting cutting edge" according to the info on the Craftsman Studio web site. The set includes 1/4 3/8 1/2 5/8 3/4 1 1-1/4 1-1/2 and 2 in sizes.

I just received this set today. I haven't had a chance to examine them closely but so far they look good.

I'll follow up with pictures and detailed observations when I have a chance.

Herb


----------



## DLK

> I try getting most of my hand tools at estate sales, Craigslist, and such, but am having a difficult time finding a decent set of chisels.
> I m currently using a super cheap Stanley set and a couple of new Craftsman variety and am ready to go find a new set.
> I ve seen some decent reviews for Narex chisels from Lee Valley. Is this the way to go for a lower priced chisel, or should I take a better route.
> 
> - MNclone


I went basically the same route, eventually ended up with a bunch of bench chisels that need a lot of work. (some were gems.) But never any mortise chisels. So I bought some Narex mortise chisels and I like them. I did get some nicer bench and paring chisels from friends and relatives.


----------



## jmartel

> I try getting most of my hand tools at estate sales, Craigslist, and such, but am having a difficult time finding a decent set of chisels.
> I m currently using a super cheap Stanley set and a couple of new Craftsman variety and am ready to go find a new set.
> I ve seen some decent reviews for Narex chisels from Lee Valley. Is this the way to go for a lower priced chisel, or should I take a better route.
> 
> - MNclone


For the low priced chisels, it's hard to beat Narex. For a moderately priced set, the Stanley 750's are a good bet. I've only got one, but I like it. Other people seem to like the set a lot.

http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-16-791-Sweetheart-Socket-Chisel/dp/B004TK0IG8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1434119728&sr=8-1&keywords=stanley+750+chisels

That's about as good of a price as you'll find on the Stanleys. And you don't really need sizes other than those 4 anyway unless you go a lot bigger or a lot smaller.


----------



## TheFridge

i bought some mortise chisels and had to return them. I ended up buying a 1/2" lie Nielsen. I love it.


----------



## Tim457

> I ve seen some decent reviews for Narex chisels from Lee Valley. Is this the way to go for a lower priced chisel, or should I take a better route.
> 
> - MNclone


I have the Narex set from Highland Hardware and they are fine but not great. Maybe they'll improve once I grind past the first bit of softer steel, but they don't hold an edge that great so far compared to good vintage chisels. I have managed to put together a mismatched set of vintage chisels like Buck Bros and they hold an edge much better.

The Narex are a good value, they were very easy to flatten and at $45 for the Lee Valley set that is ground to inch measurements not too much to pay if you want to hold out to find a vintage set later.

JayT really likes the Two Cherries chisels he has that are similar price to the Stanleys

Oh, and like Fridge did you could just buy one or two really high quality chisel in the sizes you use most, you don't need a set.


----------



## JayT

> JayT really likes the Two Cherries chisels he has that are similar price to the Stanleys


Yes, yes I do. My main users are a couple Two Cherries for general work and a mismatched set of vintage socket paring chisels. On those, I bought a box of chisels at an auction, kept the ones I wanted, sold enough to cover what I paid for all of them and have any size I could ever need (1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 7/8, 1, 1-1/2 and 2). If I hadn't found those, I'd probably have purchased a couple more sizes of Two Cherries and been perfectly happy.



> Oh, and like Fridge did you could just buy one or two really high quality chisel in the sizes you use most, you don t need a set.
> 
> - Tim


This is the advice I give, as well. I was fortunate to get the full set of vintage, but if all I had was 1/4, 3/8 and 3/4, that would cover anything needed. If you want vintage, then getting just a few really good chisels and keeping an eye out would be a good way to go.


----------



## MNclone

Are the Narex going to be noticeably better than the craftsman and cheap Stanley's that I'm currently using?


----------



## Tim457

> Are the Narex going to be noticeably better than the craftsman and cheap Stanley s that I m currently using?
> 
> - MNclone


Probably. I can't say exactly how good the Craftsman and Stanleys you have are since they varied in quality but the Narex were definitely a step up from the beater chisels I had.


----------



## rwe2156

> Are the Narex going to be noticeably better than the craftsman and cheap Stanley s that I m currently using?
> 
> - MNclone


Yes. Just line bench planes, the diffs in quality can be huge. 
Going from an off the shelf Stanley to even a Narex is going to be quite a jump.

Did you guys know there are two lines of Narex?

Get the "premiums" they have a lower side bevel but I'm sure the steel is the same.
Aside from the steel, the side bevel height is the big, big issue with chisels and to me, its the main thing that separates them. Doing dovetails with a chisel that has a high side bevel is very unrewarding.

I bought mine on Amazon they were cheaper than Highland or LV.

Now that I've got down the road with my Narex chisels, I have to agree with the poster re: edge retention. They aren't holding up quite as good as I expected. I was also a little disappointed in how much work it took to flatten the 1" chisel - it was an absolute bear.

But-the flip side of lower edge retention is they sharpen easily.
I'm back to work with a refreshed edge in a little over a minute.

I still think the Narex is the best option for an entry level set for the money.


----------



## bandit571

Never had a Narex…..however, I do happen to have a Witherby, a few by Butcher, A even a couple of Stahlwerks, Brit zone. seems those were the first to be made in the Solingen areas after WWII.

All of my "fancy" chisels are usually from before the 1950s….some a LOT earlier. As long as they aren't "burnt" by a ham-fisted" previous owner, they are fairly high quality.

Actually, it is NOT how much you pay for a set of chisels, it is more about WHO made them.

$80, leather roll included, Bailey set of chisels. Menards. Buy them, learn to tune them up, and get to work. They will stay good for at least the project at hand. Then, when in-between projects, refresh them as needed, and be ready for the next project.

I have several of each of the sizes I use the most. If, in the middle of a project, one needs a tune up, I can set it aside for a bit, and use the next one in line.

While it is nice to have a full set of sizes, sometimes you will only use MAYBE three sizes in a project. After awhile, you will note which sizes get the most use. Some won't even get out of the case. The ones YOU use the most? I'd get second ones in that size. And, ONLY that size. Again, it is not how much you pay for a chisel that counts( unless you just want to show off what you buy) but who made the chisels. Doesn't even need to be a "set" just the ones you use the most.


----------



## putty

Bandit, what would you say your 3 most used sizes are?


----------



## bandit571

1/4" , 3/4" and 1"

Mainly for all the Mortise and Tenon work I do…..YMMV

I also have a Mortise chisel in about a 1/4" size ( 3/16")

The other two are to clean the sides of a mortise, and pare the sides of the tenons.

Have a wider one, that I sometimes use as a slick, for the BIG tenons. But not too often.

Haven't really used the 1/2" wide ones all that much.


----------



## TheFridge

i picked up a set of new old stock marples. Pre Irwin. Ugly handles but good steel and good price at about 40$ for a 1/4" 3/4" & 1-12". Them and the LN are my go to chisels.


----------



## waho6o9

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=japanese+chisel+set&_frs=1

I bought this set and it's great value for the money:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-PC-JAPANESE-WOOD-WORKING-CHISEL-WOODWORKING-TOOL-SET-/281598130538?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41908e796a


----------



## bandit571

Hmm. Weelll, here is two of my newest chisels









The skinny one is a Muller 22 ( 7/8") and the other just got in the shop today. Needed a bit of work to get it ready, though. haven't even measured it to see how wide it is.


----------



## bandit571

Took the plunge last week. Walked into an Aldi's store, picked up the LAST set of chisels they had. 4 pc set, same as Paul Sellers has been raving about.

Yet, the backs are a bit hallow, took awhile to flatten near the edge. bevel did have a slight burr to it, more of a wire edge.

Have all four chisels sharpened up, per P.Sellers Video. Plan is to use these on the next project, to se how they hold up.

Price for this set? $6.99+sales Tax.

We'll see









Sellers didn't like the top ferrel all that much. He has a video out about how he modified it to suit him. Haven't really used these yet, we'll see how the handles…..handle.


----------



## MNclone

Interesting…. I drive past an Aldi every day on the way home from work. May have to check that out.


----------



## MNclone

Nothing at my Aldi today. Were they just a limited time thing and I need to check again when they come back, or do I need to check a different store.


----------



## bandit571

I think they were a one time thing. Mine was the LAST set, there were two, turned my back and one set disappeared…

You could try another store, though….


----------



## donwilwol

I picked up 2 interesting chisels today. 1 3/4" keen kutter and a Spears & Jackson.


----------



## putty

Nice Don, looks like original handles too. Seems all I see have been mushroomed!!


----------



## bandit571

used several of them Aldi chisels on the Writing Desk I just built. Chopping through dovetails in curly maple, chopping stopped dados also. Never had to stop and hone an edge, either. Might just be keepers…









Not too bad at all









Maybe…


----------



## upchuck

putty-
There are mushroomed sockets and then there are MUSHROOMED sockets. Post #1044 here
http://lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/41460
shows a recent purchase by Combo Prof that has a mushroom on the top of a socket. No big deal. A bit of grinding or filing corrects the outside. A half-round or rat-tail file can even out the inside of the socket but the conical drill-bit stones or a dremel work faster. As long as the socket is in-line with the blade, the socket is intact and not cracked, and the socket has enough depth to hold a handle restoration is straight forward.
Don't hit your socket chisels with metal hammers. The worst hammers are those with checkerboard faces. If you must hit your chisel with a metal hammer at least put a handle on it. Something. Anything. Even a corn cob will be better than nothing.
On the other hand abused socket chisels are dirt cheap. I've bought a hundred for $1.00 apiece and even had a few given to me.
chuck


----------



## putty

Thanks Chuck, I well give the abused chisels a second look!


----------



## TheFridge

Part of a recent haul. 1/4" 3/8" & 1/2" Stanley 750 chisels. These are gonna be trade bait or users. Only chisels I've ever found worth keeping. pics look like crap. Mostly surface rust.










A couple millers falls carving tools








A greenlee carving chisel of some sort. Mistook it for a gouge before I noticed the short handle. Don't know how I missed it. What's the proper name for this?

















Another 1/2" socket chisel. Has a diamond shape with " diamond edge" stamped at the bottom with "Ohio" stamped below it and upside down. Any info in this one?

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


----------



## theoldfart

Fridge, incannel gouge I think. DanK sharpened a couple of them for me last year.

Here's a pic before sharpening. I don't have an after pic but I used one today, took a gossamer shaving!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Diamond Edge is the Quality Pledge… A brand of Shapleigh Hardware in St. Louis. Good stuff!


----------



## TheFridge

Awesome. Don't really know what I'm gonna do with 4 decent 1/2" chisels (LN, marples, Stanley, DE, and other crap chisels.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Is the DE a paring chisel, or bevel? If paring, I'm interested!


----------



## TheFridge

Let me check

Sorry smitty, it a BE.


----------



## TheFridge

.


----------



## Tim457

That Greenlee is real nice. With the bevel on the inside (in cannel like TOF said) I see them described as paring gouges, particularly when that long. I also see them described as being used for coping which is apparently carving down to a curve kinda like creating a curve with a coping saw.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks, looking forward to using it as a paring gouge. Just have to come up with a project to use it on…


----------



## DanKrager

Fridge, your Millers Falls tools are a skew gouge and a veining gouge. It looks to be maybe a 60°. 
The paring gouges were most commonly used by pattern makers, and where reachable were used establish the fillet. "Carpenters" used them to make moldings when planes weren't available. Wouldn't want to do a whole house worth, but a small room wouldn't be too bad. 
I enjoy my Stanley socket chisels! Those look like keepers to me.
DanK


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah buddy! Ill have to cut 1/4" off the 3/8" because of a chip but they don't have a lot of pitting. They were covered in grease and rust in a tool box for god knows how long. Turning a slightly longer Stanley/lie Nielsen pattern out of maple as practice before I get some cocobolo blanks from a cousin. Turning is pretty fun. Thinking of putting a set together as beaters and getting some LN for pairing. So many tools. So little time.


----------



## CO_Goose

I was at an estate sale and came across this chisel that I found to be rather interesting









A closeup of the makers mark:









And the marking on another face









M. T. H. S. Denver
Manual Training High School, in Denver Colorado opened it's doors in 1892. It seems that Manual training back in the 19th century was the Vo-tech of it's day. There are pictures of the woodshop, woodcarving classes, dressmaking and other "manual" tasks that the students were trained for. Here is a picture of the Woodshop from sometime from 1900-1915;









I found a type study that places this logo back into the late 1800's. This chisel was probably being used when those pictures were being taken.


----------



## jack099

There were a few posts long ago that mentioned the quality of Erik Anton Berg chisels, I wanted to show off the set of chisels that belonged to my wife's grandfather, Henry Clausen, a carpenter/craftsman that immigrated from Sweden in the 1920's.










There are several different stampings on the backs, one EA BERG, another with his full name and several with just Eskilstunasteel - Garanti - Eskilstuna Sweden









__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


















they don't appear to be a set, more of a collection, but they all have the same handles. the handles could have been replaced by Grandpa somewhere over the last 100 years.
Thanks for looking.


----------



## upchuck

Jack-
This link may help you sort out the ages of your chisels from the logos. 
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib2/MalmbergK/bergPlot/bergPlot-01.asp
Also on the same site by the same author is more information about the Berg Company and the different logos they used over the decades. It seems to me to be a complicated story with many subtle variations but I have found it interesting. The Author has made a serious attempt to gather and publish the information and he admits that it is an on going project. He asks for readers to submit any information that they have about the logos on their tools. I'd bet that he'd be interested in what you have and the background story.
Also I agree that those handles look too uniform and unlike any of the E. A. Berg handles I have or have seen.
I'll bet that your wife's grandfather made up the handles to fit his hands. He obviously took great care of his tools. That is a very nice set of quality chisels.
chuck


----------



## bandit571

Brought a few chisels home today









About $7 for this mess. Had to dig around to find a few handle for three of them. One of which is a 1/4" Mortise chisel. The yellow handled one is a Fulton with a metal end cap. The LONG one is marked as a "GLOBE" There is a WARDS , and a Stanley wood handled ones. The clear handled one might be either a Stanley or a Sears. it is 1-1/2" wide.

The globe one is about a 1/16" UNDER 3/4" wide. Fulton is 1/2". The Wards is 1/4". The Stanley is 3/4" wide, I think…still trying to read what is stamped under the Stanley. About half the haul from today, the other half wasn't chisels though. Not too hateful a day?


----------



## realcowtown_eric

few more slicks added to the collection

To wet and rainy to get pix, maybe tomorrow

Eric


----------



## Bertha

Posting to scroll to bottom. A years worth of chisels coming up.


----------



## bandit571

My "Go-To" sets of chisels nowadays









4 Aldis, and a Mueller. Might from the same factory?










Stanleys, and Witherbys…I think. Some LONG ones in there









The Set of Mortise Chisels….skinny Butchers, and a few others from the same area.

These are my main sets for the shop..
BTW: That little screwdriver? Is a Millers Falls one. I might be able to find the "model" number on it, if you need it…


----------



## realcowtown_eric

Sorry to take so long to get a pic up.

It's a Canadian Chanmpion. Traded one of the others (2,5") for a gutter adze

It was a wwek for adzes!

Fella never know what turns up

Eric


----------



## TheFridge

That thing is a monster.


----------



## CO_Goose

I have been hitting garage sales and Estate sales looking for woodworking tools, and have noticed that the chisels are usually just sitting around then the other tools are long gone. I found these two chisels stuck in a garage shelf.










Why do they have to mark on the wooden handle with a sharpie? Anyway, one is a "H Witherby Warrantey" 1" former, and a PEXTO 1 1/2" former chisel, they are both over 12" long, and look to be in pretty good shape.
Then at another sale at the bottom of a box of rust, was this well pitted OVB chisel. From Bob Kaune's website (antique used tools) he states that these are Stanley Everlast Chisels that were branded OVB for Hibbard, Spencer & Bartlett Co.









fortunately most of the pits are not on the blade, so I cleaned it, sharpened it, and let a lot of linseed oil soak into the handle.









Should fit nicely into the collection of wood handle chisels that is presently growing in my toolbox, four stanley's, two witherby's, one PEXTO, and one Dunlap.


----------



## DanKrager

You've got a good start there, Goose. what you gonna use them on?
DanK


----------



## Brit

Can someone tell me why I need paring gouges? What would I use them for?


----------



## Tim457

Patternmaking and I've seen Roy use them a couple times. If I recall right, once was for carving beads or an arched bead. None of the times I saw him do it would require longer paring gouges, just an in cannel gouge. Are you specifically asking about the paring variety?


----------



## Brit

I have a chance to buy a set of in-cannel gouges and I need someone to talk me into it. )


----------



## chrisstef

Andy, a flowing leaf pattern next to some led lighting would really set a shop apart from feeling like he was in a dentists office.


----------



## TheFridge

Brit, sometimes you times you need to buy tools before you figure out what you are gonna do with them. So buy them


----------



## theoldfart

^+1 +1 +1 to the n power +1 and then some


----------



## JayT

If you buy them, the project will come.


----------



## waho6o9

Get em Andy.


----------



## CO_Goose

> You ve got a good start there, Goose. what you gonna use them on?
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Making toys for the Grandkids. Then I want to try dovetails, and mortises, and…


----------



## TheFridge

Some handles for a friend.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Beautiful!


----------



## Slyy

Those things are awesome fridge!!


----------



## CO_Goose

Fridge, What type of wood was used?


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks guys. Sorry for the late response. Brazilian mahogany from what I can tell.

Edit: vastly improved my lathe copying skills.


----------



## distrbd

I just bought a (near mint condition) set of five woodworking chisels sold by Lee Valley, would love to know what you all think of the quality of these chisels:
Boxed Set of 5 Bevel-Edge Chisels


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Those look like the old Stanley #60s, but with out the steel strike button on the butt ends. Can't pull up more than the pic you pasted above, so I'd ask for more info:

- How fine are the edges ground? As in, the part of the sides of each chisel that remain? If they're good quality, these 'lands' will be thin and consistent between each chisel.
- Are they true imperial measure, or metric equivalents?
- Did you have to flatten the backs much, to get them ready to work? If anything but flat, hope they're concave, as that'd be another quality "plus" that the mfgr knew what they were doing.
- How do they hold an edge?

That last one you won't know for awhile.


----------



## waho6o9

That's a nice chisel set Ken, if the first couple of times the edges peel not to

worry the metal is stronger a little ways back, love my set, and it's made it

Japan.


----------



## bandit571

Looks a bit like my "set" 









Except half say Sears on them, the other half?


----------



## distrbd

> That s a nice chisel set Ken, if the first couple of times the edges peel not to
> 
> worry the metal is stronger a little ways back, love my set, and it s made it
> 
> Japan.
> 
> - waho6o9


They are indeed made in Japan, seem to hold the sharp edge much better than my $12 set but no surprise there.
Babdit, I have the 1/2" from your set , I've abused it for 20 years and still going strong.


----------



## bandit571

maintainence day coming up, have a few in need of the stones….









Just a few…


----------



## TheFridge

Work in progress for Tug. Stanley pattern with leather pads. First time trying leather padding. It's a process but well worth the effort I think.


----------



## Tugboater78

Lookin forward to mating the handles to the chisels!

Been browsing ebay for some deals to fill out a stanley socket set. My narex chisels to a great job and so do my dewalts ( though i hate the handles). But vintage iron i crave, and lookin for a few to modify into specialty chisels. I just caught up a years worth of posts in this thread and realized i had the same idea as smitty. Converting a couple into skews for dovetailing. Working on my tails for chest i was getting frustrated with my bevel edges keeping me from getting in to pare.


----------



## bandit571

Got one batch all sharpened up..









Only to find another batch that needs to be sharpened up…









Now that the hard part is almost done with chisels being used..









Maybe cobble up a rack to put in the tray??


----------



## DanKrager

Little chip carving on the outside of that fine box, Bandit, and you'd have a marvelous heirloom keepsake…heck, you've got one without it!
DanK


----------



## Tugboater78

Wrong forum lol..


----------



## bandit571

Not really wrong forum…chip carving chisels can show up here.

Second batch is sharpened up….The second two of the Aldis set are polished on the backs, and the bevels cleaned up and polish to 2.5K…..all the higher I can go.

All but two of the mortise chisels were done. Those two didn't need it. Both have brass ferrels, but one IS a Butcher, the skinnier one is a Vintage Buck Brothers. Thinking the fat one is by the company that made Witherbys…has New Haven Edge Tool Co. stamped on it. The last two? No markings on them.

I also polish the bevel on that gouge a bit, also up to 2.5K….

Now have a Stanley # 9-1/2, T-2 to clean and sharpen up….have to be careful on this one, bevel is almost right up to the slot. This has the "hump" in the sides way back towards the heel. Tension lever is under the cap iron. Might be an "oldie"??

Bench chisels, or Butt chisels, to haul around in that tote? Might need a leather roll for the chisels?


----------



## Tugboater78

Didnt mean wrong forum to that, meant what i posted originally was in the wrong forum. I have a few chisels inline to be rehabbed.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Saw these and couldn't pass them up.










West German chisels, imperial sizes (1/4", 1/2", 3/4" and 1").










Beveled edges pretty nice, too.










Destined for a tool tote of some kind, I think.


----------



## Boatman53

I have a set of those, but mine has a wooden box. I'll have to see if I have a photo on the 'bucket. Most of mine look unused, but one has a broken handle right at the socket.
Jim

Found it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Very nice! There are only a couple of mentions of Steelcraft on the OldTools Archive, and it's listing boxes like that for sale. No reviews or other evaluations of any kind that my search-fu has been able to locate on the interwebz. Have you used yours much, Jim?


----------



## Boatman53

Haven't touched them at all Smitty. No time and I've got a lot of chisels to chose from. It's just a boxed set of anything one doesn't come across everyday. I also did not find much info about them on the web.
Jim


----------



## ShaneA

The handles and the blade shape scream 720s. Nice finds fellas.


----------



## bandit571

Afraid my German chisels might be a tad older..









Stamp says it is from the British Zone..









Yard sale find


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

They've been around awhile then! Mine definitely say "W. Germany," so it's continuous from yours Bandit. I've seen other stray chisels online from Steelcraft that are also the tang style, like those. Like them? I did some pounding on my mine last night, just into some scrap pine, and decided they're quite a bit lighter than the SW re-issues,, with pretty good balance. Not as much of a leather end as I'm used to seeing, but still quite nice. They're keepers (duh, what else would I say, right?).


----------



## distrbd

> Got one batch all sharpened up.
> - bandit571


Bandit, what do you use to sharpen your chisels? do you use a sharpening Stone? or maybe DMT Dia-sharp diamond stones, sandpapers/scary sharp? Just wondering.
I just got myself two DMT Dia-sharp plates but have only tried the "extra fine" so far, haven't opened the "Fine" grit yet, for some reason I still think my old 1000/8000 grit Water stone needs to be used right at the end of the session to get that "mirror" effect you would normally get with a strop.


----------



## bandit571

Use a couple things, as needed.
A coarse Corburnnden (sp?) stone
A Medium 600 India stone
Then I lay a few sandpapers on the last stone….1K, 2K, 2.5K grit

I will use the veritas MkI honing guide when on the stones.

IF the edge is real bad and nasty, I have a jig on my grinder. Hollow grind, then off to the stones. Haven't needed to go past the 2.5grit Wet-or-Dry paper yet.


----------



## bandit571

Smitty: They are a bit light. The thinner one isn't that great, likes to bend a bit. Both are more of the Fine Touch Paring Chisel type, just use the hands to move them along.


----------



## Tim457

> I just got myself two DMT Dia-sharp plates but have only tried the "extra fine" so far, haven t opened the "Fine" grit yet, for some reason I still think my old 1000/8000 grit Water stone needs to be used right at the end of the session to get that "mirror" effect you would normally get with a strop.
> 
> - distrbd


I don't have an 8000 water stone, but I'm sure the extra fine will not get as fine a polish as the 8000 stone. The extra fine is rated at 1200 but cuts a little coarser most people say.


----------



## Mosquito

^ I agree with the above. 8000 stone will be quite a bit finer than the extra fine (1200) diamond stones. I use eze-lap now, but had an x-x-fine dia sharp in the past. It gets quite sharp, but didn't really get me to the same shine my old 6000 grit waterstone or now strop does.

I never did any sort of subjective testing as to which was "sharper", but I've since moved on to eze-lap plates, and a charged strop. I find it fast and it works for me.


----------



## distrbd

I,m planning on getting a big piece of veg. tan leather from a local boot shop to build my own strop, what I am using for now is an old leather belt,lol but it's just wide enough for small chisels.
The 8000 grit has been doing a good job though.


----------



## TheFridge

SF diamond stone isn't near as fine as you might think. I use it for some lathe tools but never for chisels or irons unless it's really dull and never to hone.


----------



## yuridichesky

Early X-mas present for myself: Rubankov.ru chisels (one of the very few makers of decent chisels in Russia), full set of 10 pieces, the largest is 50mm (about 2"), the smallest is 6mm (about 1/4"). All sharpened and mirror-polished.



















Can't wait to give them a try…


----------



## DanKrager

Wow, Yuri, razor and mirror all in one! They look really fabulous, almost a shame to use them. If they cut as sharp as they look, be vewy careful…vewy vewy careful!
DanK


----------



## bandit571

Two Mystery Chisels for your entertainment:









The thick, longer chisel is a firmer @1-1/2" wide. Branded as "Eagle Brand" and also has a LARGE Z stamped below the "Garranteed" stamp. The shorter one is a no-name bevel edge chisel. Also 1-1/2" wide. Eagle Brand seems to be a "Heavy Duty" Firmer chisel. 









Trying to iD either of them….
On the Bevel Edge chisel: There is as SA left from the name stamp, and a bit of an address..
"UnionHa…..." "J(?)orringto…"


----------



## ToddJB

My goodness, Yuri!

What is your process for getting the mirror finish?


----------



## yuridichesky

Dan, the chisels are pretty sharp but still do need some first-time polishing of the backs and honing of the bevels.

Todd, believe it or not but this is how they look out of the box. Too shiny to start using them right away 

There's a coat of some rust-protective varnish on the blades, so first thing to do is to wipe it off, then do some edge honing, and then cut the wood!


----------



## ToddJB

Wow, if they go the effort of flattening the back and finishing to a mirror surface I think you found a company that takes pride in their work.


----------



## upchuck

Bandit-
Any chance the B.E. chisel says: 
"MFD BY
HARDWARE COMPANY (these words in a box with rounded ends stamped on top of the word…)
UNION (...with this word in very large letters that can be easily read under the above stamped line)
TORRINGTON, CONN U.S.A."

The few I have are fine chisels.
chuck


----------



## bandit571

The Torrington part is there. Not sure about the Large "SA…... " above the UNION " 
Kind of looks almost like a Stanley one? Or, like a Witherby?


----------



## DLK

Here is an odd question. I have a friend who travels between U.S. and Czech republic every year. His place in Czechia is quite close to the Narex factory. Is it worth it to have him buy and bring back some Narex parring chisels for me. I would save about 33%. Or is it just better to find some old vintage chisels.


----------



## ShaneA

The Narex chisels have a nice following due to their price in relation to their quality. I think most people would see them as good bang for the buck. Buying them at 33% off, would only enhance that.

Buying vintage, or even new premium chisels also has some advantages to it too. If you go that way, you can begin to source only the sizes you use most often…1/4, 3/8, 1/2 or whatever size your type of work dictates. However, it can take a bit longer…and will probably cost a bit more too. But there are many who love the hunt.


----------



## JADobson

I have the Narex bench and skew chisels and think they are great. I've never used a LN or Veritas chisel so I can't really compare but haven't run into any problems yet. I'm hoping to get the set of mortise chisels soon and the paring chisels afterwards. This doesn't pertain directly to the paring chisels as they have different handles but some people complain about the bench chisels' handles being ugly but once you sand off the gold lettering (10 light strokes with 220 grit paper should do) they don't look too bad. I find them comfortable to hold as well.


----------



## Tim457

Don I had the Narex premium bevel edge chisels from Highland. They were indeed a good value, but I found enough vintage chisels with better steel that I ended up selling the Narex.

But with 1/3 off, and vintage paring chisels being pricier and harder to find, that's a set that may be worth it. I also didn't use the Narex enough to grind past what may be the softer steel at the end, so they may have improved.

Last thing, Lee Valley says they had Narex produce their paring chisels to tighter specifications than usual.


----------



## DLK

I bought the set of mortise chisels and did run into the softer steel at the end problem with the 1/2" chisel. I will have to grind a new bevel and re-harden I think.



> Last thing, Lee Valley says they had Narex produce their paring chisels to tighter specifications than usual.
> 
> - Tim


I wonder if the ones sold at the factory or inside Czech republic are made to the same tighter specifications.


----------



## TheFridge

All I want for Christmas is LN set. With skews. Christmas is going to be awesome.


----------



## Tugboater78

Gonna want to invest in a starter carving set before long. To be able to carve lettering and notso fine designs.

Any suggestions?


----------



## DLK

Don't get an X-acto, or if you do buy lots of bandages. Only buy good carving tools.
I don't think you need a set. For lettering, I primarily use a chip carving knife, a shallow-gauge (A sweep gauge would be better) and a chisel. sometimes a V-gauge. And a sharpening system.
My carving chisels and gauges are Ashley Isles I bought them one at a time. I also have a small set of Pfeil carving knives that were good and included the chip carving knife I use.
Different techniques and different tools are used for different kinds of wood. Also the size of the letters will determine the size of the tools.
I aways have used chisels with long handles, but some prefer butt handle chisels.


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah buddy


----------



## ShaneA

Yep, looking good. That is a sweet set up.


----------



## Tim457

Solid, solid work Fridge. That is such a good idea to have your planes and chisels ready to go.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks Tim, its nice since most of my work is sitting at the corner of my bench.

I'm actually in the process of changing it up. The rack will be hanging inside here when finished.


----------



## waho6o9

Excellent dove tails Fridge!


----------



## TheFridge

Thank you sir. Just tryin to cut to the line.


----------



## bandit571

Hoping to give these two a work-out later this week









In Pine, no less. 8 mortises to chop….


----------



## TheFridge

Bump it


----------



## putty

^ Get lost spam bastard


----------



## WillliamMSP

Yup, I flagged a few of his/her posts already, this morning.


----------



## DLK

I think I will have to build a vertical bench plane till, just to save some room.
How steep an angle should they be? How steep is yours? 
What are you're recommendations?


----------



## DLK

^ Wrong forum sorry.


----------



## bandit571

Rescued from an Antique Store…before any more damage can happen









Apparently, this was at one time mushroomed on the socket….they ground it off, along with what ever stamping of names was there. Not sure IF the handle is correct….seems a bit "New-ish". And looose. 









Blade is 1-1/2" wide. They'd re-ground the edge. Burnt the corners, and even gave it a camber….

$9+tax…..Needs a bit of work, though…


----------



## bandit571

Ok, got that chisel all rehabbed. Almost matches another wide chisel I have..









Not too bad. So, now I have a "stable" of LONG chisels…...some are from Witherby









Or, at least the company that sold Witherby chisels. There is also a couple Framer chisels









1-3/8" is a VanCamp and the 7/8" corner is by P.S.&W. These are not dainty tools!









That is a 1/2" Fulton with a metal cap. Downright tiny? 









Soooo, what does one do with such long chisels? I don't do timber frame work. Hard to store these big guys, too.


----------



## theoldfart

Paring chisels Bandit. I have one they work quite well flattening a dado bottom and the like. I used it to flatten the opening on the chop for my end vise. If you don't want 'em pm me.


----------



## DLK

> Paring chisels Bandit. I have one they work quite well flattening a dado bottom and the like. I used it to flatten the opening on the chop for my end vise. If you don t want em pm me.
> 
> - theoldfart


Or me… I've been looking for a good set of paring chisels.


----------



## putty

Bidding war Bandit…


----------



## bandit571

Haven't heard any offers, or what chisels they want…...yet…


----------



## DLK

Do you want a P.M.?


----------



## bandit571

Send one.

Not sure what shipping would be…..how does one ship something like these?


----------



## DanKrager

Bandit, I've been very fortunate to send without damage some very delicate items using thin bubble wrap. For things with cutting edges, I put several layers of painter's tape over the sharp edge…in this case circular wrap several turns, fold the part hanging over back onto the chisel and several more circular wraps. Bundle the chisels together handle to toe and wrap tightly with about three layers of thin bubble wrap and secure with shipping tape. Put in a sturdy box with crumpled newspaper all around so there can be no movement.

I recently packed a 9×9 x 4" glass display case like this and actually drop kicked it to 30 feet just to prove that it could survive a USPS trip to MN. I told the USPS clerk it had already been drop kick tested and she grinned. It arrived without incident.

DanK


----------



## JayT

My main users are all paring chisels. Love the extra length and the weight forward aspect. I have some Two Cherries for that are balanced for all around use, but find having the extra mass toward the cutting edge really helps.

To ship, I fold a bit of thin cardboard over the edge and tape it down. Then roll up the chisels in heavy paper-lay one chisel in, one roll to cover, lay the next chisel in the opposite direction, one roll to cover. Rinse and repeat. Once done, wrap that in bubble wrap and ship in a regular box like a flat rate with extra packing material to keep a tight fit.


----------



## bandit571

Medium Flat rate box is now $13.45 to ship…..OUCH!

The Small Flat Rate went up a dollar bill, too…...May have a plane to ship out this weekend, I hope

I have plenty of Bubble Wrap ( BUBBLE WRAP!! ooooh..ahhh) and might have enough tape.

That VanCamp Framer Chisel has a strange cross section to it. Almost a Pentagon…..ridge right down the center line. It also has a Laminate edge. One can see the difference between the steel edge, and where the cast/wraught iron joined together. Both at the edge, and on the flat back. Entire chisel has a curve along it's length, too. 









Might be too big for dovetails??


----------



## bandit571

Hope everyone liked their new chisels….

Will be keeping the Mortise chisels I have at the moment.

May FINALLY set up a sharpening station again, and refresh a few of the chisels I've been using lately. Just starting to get dull, about that time again.

Stanley-Atha Stainless Steel cold chisels I have both a 1/2" and the 3/8" wide ones. They have never had a spot of rust on them, ever. Will have to get them back out, and see IF they have a model number on them. About it for the cold chisels I have. Might have to keep them around.


----------



## theoldfart

Really happy Bandit! I'll be giving them a test run this weekend.


----------



## DLK

Me too. They are fantastic. Even used one today.


----------



## TheFridge

Good stuff.


----------



## Pascual

[removed]


----------



## theoldfart

May need to get another chisel role!


----------



## bandit571

While cleaning up a few more chisels today….found a Stanley-Atha No. 99-3/8" cold chisel. Looks like it was made from Stainless steel? Never had so much as a spot of rust on it, ever.

Stanley ever make a SS chisel?

Still cleaning up another chisel…..looks like a blacksmith made one, or Butcher. Pictures of them tomorrow, provided anyone cares….


----------



## DLK

When you (or anyone) finds a *cold chisel* embossed: "Stanley Alloy -74- 1/2 made in U.S.A" give me a p.m. It should be about 5.5" in long and weigh about 5 oz.


----------



## bandit571

All I had for today..









Wood handle has a split, no markings on the blade, either. The other?









Stanley-Atha No. 99-3/8" Made in USA


----------



## bandit571

That wide chisel? What can anyone tell me about it? 
It has the remains of a label on the handle. Almost a cigar band thing…

The black colour of the steel is just dirt. Cleaned the black stuff off…found a _. F. JENNINGS above a "arrow-like" logo, then a Made in USA below that.

Handle has a split in it. Maybe cobble a new one out of Oak or Ash?

It is quite sharp, sandpaper slipped off the chisel as I was cleaning the logo area, and the side of my thumb suddenly had a slice in it. didn't feel a thing. Until now…

Did Jennings make chisels back in the day?


----------



## ToddJB

Bandit, CE Jennings?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Antique-C-E-Jennings-Chisel-With-Wood-Handle-1-Wide-/331274938122?nma=true&si=HWClvzPQZ7PHv4Xdwr7PNG%252FKNzo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## bandit571

Nope. There is an "F" before the JENNINGS. There is an arrowhead logo below. Chisel is a tang style, almost like a "Butcher" style bolster where it meets the handle.


----------



## ToddJB

You sure the bottom of the E isn't worn off?


----------



## bandit571

Might be, there is a spot at the bottom of that letter I can't get off. This has a tang like a Butcher style chisel would….

Any idea what the label on the handle would look like? All I have left looks like a cigar band.


----------



## ToddJB

No idea. These are just some google images that came up under C.E. Jennings.


----------



## ToddJB

Found this. Top one is tang, but doesn't match what yours looks like


----------



## bandit571

My handle has a nice split growing where the tang goes in…...wonder IF I should go ahead and make a new one?

need to make a tapered, square hole, just a hair smaller than the tang….


----------



## bandit571

Ok…about this 1-1/4" wide CE Jennings chisel's handle. Doesn't look like it fits this chisel, and has splits on the end where the tang was drove in. Yes, this has a tang…a square one that is tapered..









So….maybe I could drive a newer handle on?









At least it looks closer to what Jennings was selling. And, it does have a metal ferrel on that end. The other end may get a metal ring? Need a decent way to drive this handle on….

Chisel with the cigar band handle cost me about fifty cents at a yard sale, the "new" handle came from a "Junk Box" from another yard sale.

back of this VERY SHARP chisel is as flat as I can get it..









May keep the Ash handle for the next time a hammer hammer cracks…handle was "carved" with one of my drawknives. Ash handle??









Yeah, THAT long thing back there. I had thought to cut off a piece to use, then found the "better" one.


----------



## jmartel

Bandit, I could be wrong, but I saw a video where someone seated a tang chisel by heating up the tang with a torch and then pounding on a handle with a round hole. The heat formed the square tapered hole as it was drove on. Never done it though, so can't speak to its effectiveness.


----------



## DanKrager

BTDT. A heated tang in a tightly fit (undersized) hole is the traditional way to attach the handle to a tang. The red hot tang going into a slightly dampened hole creates a reaction between the steel and wood that causes a permanent bond that is difficult to dislodge if done correctly. The resulting fit should result in the handle resting tightly against the shoulder of the tang. This particular arrangement Bandit is showing looks like a 1/4" to 3/8" gap before heating would be about right, assuming that the round hole is tapered close to the tang taper (wallowing the bit). Be sure the hole is just deep enough to allow the wood to reach the shoulder, not much more and no less. With the tang red hot, drive the handle onto the tang by striking the handle on an anvil (solid wooden bench) about as hard as you can until the handle meets the tang shoulder solidly. The dampness is boiled out of the wood and in the process the wood fibers are forced into every little deformity of the tang and are dried by the residual heat making thousands of little "grippers" that hold the tang in the handle very solidly. So don't smooth the tang. If it is smooth, roughen it. In this case the tiny bit of rust that develops inside the handle adds to the gripping power over time. In fitting a tang, you want the wood up tight to the shoulder. If not, handle striking forces would break the bonds and eventually loosen the handle. This is very different notion than fitting a socket chisel handle where the shoulder of the wood must remain 1/16" to 1/8" clear of the socket so that striking forces enhance the tapered bond without interference from the wooden shoulder. 
Long description of a very quick process.
DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Chisel modifications = enhanced capability. More here.


----------



## putty

I have seen some videos where they also drill a tiny hole to let the steam or gasses out when they install a handle. I don't know where to find the video now


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

OldTools Archive has a bunch of discussion on burning in handles. Some seemed to dispel the notion that's it's a superior method. Also, it may have been TFWW that did some additional exploration? I've read a lot about in over the years, it's a subject that stirs lots of debate. Almost like RAS vs. table saw stuff. Interesting topic, I have no dog in the fight.


----------



## bandit571

Part two to this story..









Still have a bit more to sink into the handle…will try again later. Hole might not be deep enough.

Also, these two are next in the rehab line









Yellow handle has a metal end cap, and is labeled as Fulton on the black part of the handle. The other? might be a Craftsman….made by????

They will get a sharpening, and then we'll see what happens.


----------



## bandit571

The two "newer" ones can wait a bit….went back to the shop for a while, to better fit the handle…









As I didn't like the way it had looked the other day. Found a steel ring for the end, as well. Sanded the handle a bit better.

Good enough for the girls I run around with..









Maybe??


----------



## CO_Goose

Picked up another chisel at an estate sale today, not much but there was this chisel










It was marked Simmons, I hadn't heard of that before, but it seems that they were related to Keen Kutter somehow, unfortunately this one doesn't have the Keen Kutter label on the blade










I spent an hour cleaning and sharpening it up, looks like it will be a nice user, and a great addition to my growing set of chisels.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

Crazy!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231839049530?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## TheFridge

Prettiest ever last I've ever seen


----------



## onoitsmatt

Speaking of shiny chisels… I saw this one last week.










Was surprised it sold so high.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

^^^^ That's about 4 Lie Nielsens.!


----------



## putty

I bought this 1/8" chisel at an antique store, it was labeled as a mortise chisel. By the shape I thought it was, but looking at the picture of the Stanley above, maybe it is not a mortise chisel. Who would make an 1/8" mortise anyways. It is stamped Ohio tool Co.

So, Mortise or 1/8" chisel? Thanks!!


----------



## DLK

> I bought this 1/8" chisel at an antique store, it was labeled as a mortise chisel. By the shape I thought it was, but looking at the picture of the Stanley above, maybe it is not a mortise chisel. Who would make an 1/8" mortise anyways. It is stamped Ohio tool Co.
> 
> So, Mortise or 1/8" chisel? Thanks!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - putty


Almost every chisel maker made a 1/8" mortise chisel. Also called a sash chisel and used for window sash. Thats a nice looking chisel. Looks like a mortise chisel to me the thin ones (i.e. 1/8") usually don't go cheap.


----------



## shampeon

You'd be surprised. I've used my 1/8" mortise chisels a lot.


----------



## bandit571

Came in the mail today..









Buck Bros. 3/8" wide firmer chisel









Edge needs squared up, bevel isn't flat…yet. This isn't one of those from Home Despot.

Should be able to sharpen it back up into a user. It was listed as a 3/8" Mortise Chisel…...NOT.

I'll make use of it, anyways…no biggie.


----------



## DLK

I was watching Paul Sellers fettle Aldi chisels, which he likes for beginning students; because they are cheap, have an ash handle, and once flattened and sharpened work well. From time to time my wife asks me to do something for 4-H
I was thinking how I might gather cheaply a set of tools for a few gifted children and teach them how to use them.

I can find these Stanley Model # 16-150 Basic Wood Chisel Set (3-Piece) for $10 and was wondering has anyone tried to make them work?










Cheap enough it maybe worth the experiment. But I don't need them and would probably just give them away.


----------



## WillliamMSP

I picked up a set of those Stanleys years back for basic around-the-house stuff (I actually have the 1/2" within hands reach). I did recently re-sharpen them, and was able to get a decent edge on 'em, but I couldn't tell you about retention as I just haven't done much with them other than widening recesses for strike plates, etc.


----------



## bandit571

For what you want to use those for…..just sharpen them up, let them use them for a while, then toss them into the "Around the house" toolbox as beaters. For a ten-spot? It can save your better chisels from all the "dirty work" jobs.

BTW: I have a set of those Aldis that Sellers likes…..me likey too! Sharpened up ONCE so far, haven't needed evena touch up…yet. paid $7 for mine.


----------



## MNclone

I still haven't found a set of the Aldis. Must only carry them a specific times.


----------



## RyanS

MNClone, Aldi's carries their chisels around father's day, and maybe Christmas.


----------



## MNclone

> MNClone, Aldi s carries their chisels around father s day, and maybe Christmas.
> 
> - RyanS


Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

Winchester 1 1/4" hump back leg scratcher. Got an hour or so in cleaning so far. Still have a ways to go on the bevel to get the corner chip out. I'll post a pic when I get it finished.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

putty….yu was wondering who would make an 1/8 chisel. lotsa folks did, I got a couple of em. They even made 1/16" cjose;s. For what purpose? fine tuning fine groove like in the obx makers endeavourss. cleaning out caning spline channels, somehow I keep looking for them.

They are made, they are useful

Eric


----------



## ajthomas5009

I am pretty new to the chisel game a Coke yrs ago I bought a set of yellow HF chisels which served their purpose but took a while to initially set up and didn't hold an edge too long. I later bought a second set to have sharp back ups ready. Well this past fall I finally got my first set of pretty good chisels. It was the full set of the new Sweetheart 750s. They hold an edge way better than the HF beaters and look pretty too. I do really like the balance the socket chisels offer. I have developed a favorite size yet but I do reach for the 1 1/4 when possible. I like having a larger reference surface when possible. I am also a sucker anything with a sweetheart emblem on it,bel ethnic about it says vintage Americana to me. I also have 5 1920s era sweetheart planes I restored that are in good + user condition No 18,65,4,5 1/2, and 7.

In the future I'll probably stay with my current trend and add some back ups of the most used of my new era 750 set and I also would like to a aquire a full set of vintage 750s. From there only time will tell.


----------



## DLK

Does "Coke yrs ago" simply mean 30 years ago?


----------



## theoldfart

Typo for "a couple of years". Auto correct has it's moments!


----------



## ajthomas5009

Sorry I finished that post while driving lmao. Auto correct is annoying at times. It was suppose to be TWO years ago.


----------



## theoldfart

Well, I was close. Wasn't I?


----------



## DLK

I really did think "Coke yrs ago" was some sort of slang I did not know. Hard to keep up with you youngsters.


----------



## CB_Cohick

> Sorry I finished that post while driving lmao. Auto correct is annoying at times. It was suppose to be TWO years ago.
> 
> - athomas5009


Don't text and drive, knucklehead.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

I am pretty proud of this find and how it came out. I finished it up this morning and put a nice edge on it. I still am undecided about the handle.,,,I'm thinking of going back to a clear finish on the Ash instead of stain and wax.


----------



## donwilwol

I picked up these two D Barton chisels. D Barton made tools in Rochester NY in the 1800's.


----------



## Woodiewannabe

Maybe y'all can help me identify a chisel I recently acquired. 
It has an anvil with "trade" and "mark" on the left and right sides, with "warranted" stamped underneath. It looks like here may be initials in the center of the anvil, possibly "Q" "T" 
Thanks,
Dan


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

It might be a Ward and Payne from the UK.


----------



## MNclone

> Maybe y all can help me identify a chisel I recently acquired.
> It has an anvil with "trade" and "mark" on the left and right sides, with "warranted" stamped underneath. It looks like here may be initials in the center of the anvil, possibly "Q" "T"
> Thanks,
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -


I've got a plane with the same logo on the iron. No idea what it is though


----------



## Brit

In 1843, Payne was granted a trade mark: 'W P' and an anvil with crossed forging hammers. Payne died in 1850. His widow briefly retained an interest in the firm, but once David Ward came of age he assumed control.


----------



## Woodiewannabe

I read that before ward and Payne, just ward had an anvil trademark. Anyone have an example of that? I've ruled out it being a ward & Payne because they were very particular about the trademark being just like Brit's post.


----------



## Woodiewannabe

> I picked up these two D Barton chisels. D Barton made tools in Rochester NY in the 1800 s.


Those Barton chisels are worth a good deal!
I dream of coming across chisels like that.


----------



## donwilwol

I


> I picked up these two D Barton chisels. D Barton made tools in Rochester NY in the 1800 s.
> 
> Those Barton chisels are worth a good deal!
> I dream of coming across chisels like that.
> 
> - Woodiewannabe


I cleaned them up and sharpened them over the weekend. They seem really good.


----------



## ToddJB

Hmmm, I feel like this is a big slick that someone has ground into a skew, what say you?

http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5578225286.html


----------



## Woodiewannabe

It's possible, but I think that. I have one from the same maker that is a little bit smaller, but still a very large skew. 


> Hmmm, I feel like this is a big slick that someone has ground into a skew, what say you?
> 
> http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5578225286.html
> 
> - ToddJB


----------



## Woodiewannabe

*I think not.


----------



## DanKrager

+1^. I'm not sure I would want to be in the same room with that being used as a lathe skew. One good catch and it's all over…literally.

DanK


----------



## Woodiewannabe

I guess I got lucky that my catch only snapped my cast-iron tool rest holder…That's going to be hard to replace. Anybody have a Delta model 277 leave that they want to part-off?


----------



## ToddJB

Wait, sorry, I feel like I'm more confused, perhaps its the way I asked.

Do you think Butcher made this as a skew, or has this been ground into a skew?

Second question, do you see any issue with cutting back to flat and using it as a slick?


----------



## Woodiewannabe

I think it was made as a SKU, but I do not see a problem grinding it back to a slick. I am not a metallurgist though and do not know if they made slicks and skews differently.


----------



## Woodiewannabe

I think slicks were mainly socket style as well, I don't remember seeing any ass tang style. I could be wrong.


----------



## ToddJB

Yeah, ass tang chisels are uncommon 

But yeah, here's another I found on the bay


----------



## Kirk650

I'm new to this forum, and I have an ongoing desire for new and better and older and better chisels. Honestly, I had no idea how many people had the same 'problem'. Very interesting, and very informative. Personally, I have 3 levels of chisels: some old Craftsman chisels (good steel, surprisingly) that are for household work; some Marples for general workbench work; and LN socket chisels and Pfiel butt chisels for serious work. I wish the Marples held an edge better than they do. I'm thinking I'll replace them with Pfiel chisels when the wife isn't looking.

This is a good forum. Lots of knowledge and folks are polite.


----------



## Tim457

Todd I thought it was just a chisel until 3" in width then it's a slick. I suppose though is what makes a slick is the larger handle, 2-3 feet long, and a blade long enough for timber framing mortices and tenons, so up to 10 inches long and even more.

As for the one you linked first, that looks like it would have tool steel the whole length. Older chisels and slicks may only have a couple inches of tool steel at the business end that is welded on. Back in the day steel was hard to make and expensive.


----------



## ToddJB

Good info, Tim. I didn't know "slick" had criteria. I've used it just to describe a chisel bigger than a normal bench or paring chisel.

Welcome - Kirk. You may want to click the "watch" button on this one, as this specific forum crops up for a bit and then has long periods of no one posting in it.


----------



## Tim457

> Good info, Tim. I didn t know "slick" had criteria. I ve used it just to describe a chisel bigger than a normal bench or paring chisel.
> - ToddJB


I'm no expert that's just what I've seen most when using the word slick. I think they're particularly for timber framing so that size fits the use. The blade part on mine is 6 inches long, and from tip to the end of the socket is 12".

I know timber framing chisels are a bit different too, mostly thicker to take the chopping, and larger like 1-1/2" and 2" wide being very common because those are common mortise sizes. Also longer to get down into the mortices. Beyond that I don't know exactly what makes a timber framing chisel. Maybe a combination of size and they would probably usually have a ring at the end to keep the handle from splitting.


----------



## Brit

Those of you who have been watching this thread for a while might remember these I. Sorby Punch brand pig sticker chisels that I restored some time ago. I re-handled the middle one at the same time.










I was lucky enough to get a photo of the Punch brand catalogue which shows I. Sorby made ten of these chisels and I could just make out the sizes that were available. They were 1/8", 3/16", 1/4", 5/16", 3/8", 7/16", 1/2", 9/16", 5/8" and 3/4".










The photo above shows the smallest seven sizes up to 1/2".

Tonight I managed to snap up a 9/16" and a 5/8" on ebay.



















They will both get a leather washer and a new beech handle to match the rest of the set when I get time. I just have the 3/4" to go now to complete the set. I think that might prove to be the most elusive though. Please let me know if you come across one in good shape.


----------



## ShaneA

Those are a sweet looking set Andy.


----------



## ToddJB

I can't seem to come across any pig stickers let alone that specific one and in good shape. But, I'll keep my peepers peeled. You care about handle condition?


----------



## Brit

Thanks Todd and no I don't care if it doesn't even have a handle. It just has to be made by I. Sorby Punch brand 3/4" and tapered rather than a parallel sided mortise chisel.


----------



## Tim457

Ok stupid question, I too have never seen one of these in the wild. Which way do they taper? In width, narrower towards the tang to reduce sticking?

That is super sweet you almost have the whoule set and found the catalogue. You should make that catalogue intou a vintage shoup pouster.


----------



## donwilwol

That's an amazing set your building Andy.


----------



## Mosquito

Tim I believe they're tapered from the flat face ("Back" of the chisel) to the front (bevel side). to reduce sticking in the mortise


----------



## Brit

Tim when viewed from the side, they taper from the bolster to the tip of the chisel, but Mos is also right in that they have a trapezoidal cross section to prevent the chisel jamming when you lever it. Take a look at this short blog I wrote when I restored the first chisel I acquired in the above set. http://lumberjocks.com/Brit/blog/37823


----------



## Brit

Some old mortise chisels have the back face parallel to the front face when viewed from the side like this one:










Personally I don't like the parallel sided ones as much as the tapered ones.


----------



## Mosquito

I agree on not liking the parallel ones as much


----------



## theoldfart

Congrats on the find Andy. BTW, the ones you sent are doing just fine and have adapted to being across the pond. In fact they fit in quite nicely with their Naturalized Yankee brethren!


----------



## DanKrager

I HAVE to ask, Kevin, if on a quiet night you listen real closely, can you hear those chisels bantering about the language barrier? 

DanK


----------



## TheFridge

I thought slicks had an angled handle so it could lay flat and still be worked?


----------



## theoldfart

Now that you mention it there is a cockney sounding conversation coming from the tool chest. All I could pick up was bangers and mash or was it bubble and squeak? It's all fouriegn to me.


----------



## DanKrager

LAWL! Good thing Brit has at least a little sense of humour. Luv you guys!

DanK


----------



## TheFridge

> LAWL! Good thing Brit has at least a little sense of humour. Luv you guys!
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


I hope so =) I was kidding bud! Not about the vaping though


----------



## Woodiewannabe

Here's what Wikipedia says:
"A slick is a large chisel, characterized by a wide (2-4 inches, 5-10 cm), heavy blade, and a long, frequently slender, socketed handle. The combined blade and handle can reach two feet (60 cm) in length. The blade of a slick is slightly curved lengthwise, and/or the handle socket is cranked upward, such that the handle and socket clear the surface of the work when the edge is touching. This distinguishes the slick from the similarly-sized, short-handled millwright's chisel." 
Of special note is the blade/socket curvature.


----------



## Brit




----------



## Brit




----------



## donwilwol

To much time in the hotel again Andy? lol


----------



## theoldfart

Now I'm lost. Translation please. ;-(


----------



## Brit

BTW - A slick isn't necessarily offset, although they often are. Offset slicks allow better access to hard to reach places, but some people prefer the handle to not be offset so that the force applied to the handle is directly transferred to the cutting edge without having to apply any downward pressure.

Iles are one maker today who make a slick without an offset but there are many historical examples too like this beautiful 3" Fulton.


----------



## Brit

Adam and Eve = believe
cock sparrow = a common way to refer to a cheeky chappy.
mince pies = eyes
dear old blighty = Britain
innit = isn't it.
Awright geeezzaas? = Are you alright mates?
Me old china [plate] = mate
Sorted = It is alright now or problem solved.
Ruby Murry = curry


----------



## theoldfart

^I need time to study this.


----------



## donwilwol




----------



## Brit




----------



## theoldfart

Don has it figured out!

Shouldn't it be woung?


----------



## putty

Glad to see the discussion on slicks vs chisels. This was my great great Grandfathers. It is Stamped D.Simmoits Rockport N ? and has an 8 stamped on it.

Blade is 1 15/16 wide, overall length of blade and socket is 13" It is very thick. I'm thinking it is a framing chisel and not a slick?

Edit: Maybe the maker stamp is D. Simmons


----------



## DLK

I don't understand what the joke is in Don W picture? Please explain.


----------



## Brit

Lovely slick Putty. Nice that is has a family connection too.

Combo Prof. Don W's picture was a bit subtle but very well played IMO. He was jokingly making the point that I might as well be talking to a fire hydrant for all the sense it made that side of the pond. I just feel sorry for the fire hydrant. LOL.


----------



## DLK

Well aren't I a plank I thought there was more to it.


----------



## putty

^ Or the Girl represents the professor and the hydrant represents the class not absorbing any of the drivel.

So you think it is a slick Brit?


----------



## DLK

I think Andy is indeed pretty slick, but I don't know about the chisel.  ..... I think I need some sleep.


----------



## bandit571

> Glad to see the discussion on slicks vs chisels. This was my great great Grandfathers. It is Stamped D.Simmoits Rockport N ? and has an 8 stamped on it.
> 
> Blade is 1 15/16 wide, overall length of blade and socket is 13" It is very thick. I m thinking it is a framing chisel and not a slick?
> 
> Edit: Maybe the maker stamp is D. Simmons
> Used to have one just like that…..maker? VanCamp was stamped on mine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS&W 7/8" corner and a 1-3/8" VanCamp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - putty


----------



## Brit

> So you think it is a slick Brit?
> 
> - putty


Actually it is hard to tell Putty. I'm not an expert on slicks. There were/are slicks of that size, but there were/are also firmer chisels of that size too. When does a firmer chisel become a slick?


----------



## Woodiewannabe

I'd say framing chisel due to short handle and hammer/mallet use.


----------



## putty

I think the handle was longer at one time Woodie. It does have a metal ring on the end.


----------



## donwilwol

I'm not sure if these are slicks, chisels or just slick chisels.(the knife is just for size comparison )










And the fire hydrant says…...


----------



## putty

I like the slick chisel… the first multi tool


----------



## dbray45

They look more like framing chisels to me and very abused - probably by slick.


----------



## DanKrager

I'm gonna venture a guess here that a slick can be a chisel any time it wants to be, depending on its identity association that day.

I like Brit's humor!

DanK


----------



## Brit

I agree with Dan. Tonight I spent a bit of time looking into slicks and framing chisels both new and vintage and either people don't really know what to call the items they're selling or there is a lot of overlap in their use. I'd love to own a nice vintage slick though like that Fulton I posted earlier, but the good ones go for £100-£200 on ebay.co.uk.


----------



## dbray45

Andy - the one you have pictured is different from others that I have seen. It looks to be a cross between a framing chisel and a paring chisel. The handle is too thin to use with a hammer or mallet for that size of blade.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

I'm of the mind that a slick is 2" plus in width. 2" and under they are just chisels, framing, , mortice, paring if on the longer side, or whatever, but slicks to my pea brain run 2.5 to 4" (???anybody seen wider?)

Eric


----------



## donwilwol

Even without handles, I think it was $5 well spent.


----------



## Brit

Mmmmm Shiny.


----------



## Brit

Just picked up these little firmer chisels by various Sheffield makers for £9.99. I think I'm going to sharpen these at 20 degrees to use as little paring chisels for jobs like undercutting tenon shoulders and the like.


----------



## TheFridge

The U.K. Seems like old tool heaven. I'm jealous.


----------



## DLK

I like those chisels. My favorite tool to find.


----------



## CyberDyneSystems

> Glad to see the discussion on slicks vs chisels. This was my great great Grandfathers. It is Stamped D.Simmoits Rockport N ? ...
> 
> Edit: Maybe the maker stamp is D. Simmons
> ...
> 
> - putty


E.C. Simmons = Keen Kutter, but that was St Louis,. "D Simmons Rockport" is quite a mystery to me.
There is a Rock Port in MO though, so maybe it's related to the E.C. Simmons brand?


----------



## DLK

Does anyone know what these are:


500+ Wood Carving Chisels Tang End in Vintage Hardware Store Display Box LOADED

I am not sure that they are wood carving chisels as claimed.


----------



## ToddJB

Weird. I wonder if they're blanks for you to make your own profiles?


----------



## CO_Goose

Interesting auction. Numbered 1 through 8, like auger bits in 1/16ths? The initial grind angle looks rather low like 5-10 degrees.

Curious to see what others think.


----------



## JayT

Looks more like rasp or file blanks to me. If so, they'd be really good steel to do something with.


----------



## DLK

If I could be certain on what they were I might have bid on them.

If they are rasp or file blanks, then why the the 5-10 degree grind angle?


----------



## Woodiewannabe

It looks as if the tip tapers top and bottom over a span of 3-4 inches. Doesn't seem to fit the bill for a chisel since you'd have to grind your own flat bottom. I can't think of what else they'd be though…


----------



## Woodiewannabe

Blanks for skewes?


----------



## DLK

How about turn screws?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Anyone have an extra (or free agent) crank chisel on hand? I'm looking for a 1/2" or 3/4" of some kind, curious if it's as useful as I think it might be. There are Narex sets out there, along with some other new varieties (including Japanese) on the 'bay, but thought this might be a good starting point to discuss and look.


----------



## ShaneA

None here, don't go writing any positive reviews and how they are revolutionary…that will just force me to invest in even more chisels.


----------



## BillWhite

You may NOT have my W. Butcher skew. It is MINE, and MINE alone. 
Bill


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm thinking there's no such thing as a socket crank -that's what I'd like- but the only cranks on line I've seen are tanged.

I have socket skews, Bill, so your Butcher is safe (for now).


----------



## TheFridge

How about those valyrian steel chisels?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Heard about those, haven't seen them. Lawl


----------



## TheFridge

It makes Damascus steel look like cast iron. It's magically infused with goodness. And you never have to sharpen it again.

Finding a valyrian chisel is like finding 10 Stanley no 1 in a box at one yard sale. They're really hard to find since the doom took valyria.

Know what I mean?


----------



## putty

I wonder if anyone tried to google Valyrian Chisels … I almost did!!!


----------



## TheFridge

They're very hard to find 

And shipping from Westeros is a bitch


----------



## Woodiewannabe

> I m thinking there s no such thing as a socket crank -that s what I d like- but the only cranks on line I ve seen are tanged.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I noticed a socket crank on the 'bay a day or two ago. Only one I've ever seen though.


----------



## Brit

> I wonder if anyone tried to google Valyrian Chisels … I almost did!!!
> 
> - putty


I did to my shame, but I've got an excuse. I just can't think what it is at the moment.


----------



## DLK

Blame in on Brexit … everyone else is. LOL


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> I m thinking there s no such thing as a socket crank -that s what I d like- but the only cranks on line I ve seen are tanged.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop
> 
> I noticed a socket crank on the bay a day or two ago. Only one I ve ever seen though.
> 
> - Woodiewannabe


Damn, missed it! And I've looking. Unless is was a gouge, maybe? Don't want to slide down that slope at this time…


----------



## DanKrager

Wouldn't this qualify for "socket crank"?

DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Lawl.


----------



## DLK

I happened to see the very end of an episode of "NCIS" with title "Cadence". I saw Gibbs pick up a chisel with blood on it. It was a Narex 1" (or so) bench chisel. So I guess there is another use for these chisel, but I don't recommend or encourage it.


----------



## bandit571

Well, very early this morning, while I was "sawing logs" of a different kind, seems I had a "winning bid" on a chisel..

#162116309985

Seems to be a Japanese 12mm mortise chisel. A tad rusty…

Someone did not know how to flatten the back of it, and messed that up a bit. It is supposed to be here next week.

Will be the first one of the Japanese style chisels I have had…..need to learn all about these critters…

BTW: $11.50 with free shipping….


----------



## Brit

Smitty - I think you have to go Japanese (perish the thought) if you want socket cranked. http://www.fine-tools.com/kotenomi.html


----------



## donwilwol

So Japanese is the only way to get your socket cranked?


----------



## WillliamMSP

Hey, no judging - if that's what ya gotta do…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Geez, those are high $ chisels, Andy! I may have to talk myself out of wanting a crank.


----------



## bandit571

you all have less than a day to grab a 1/2" Pigsticker…..$7 + S&H?



Code:


 #262508654184

 Ebay

Unless you don't want a 1/2" wide pigsticker mortise chisel…..with a decent handle too…


----------



## DLK

Is anyone here bidding on it? If no one, then I will.


----------



## bandit571

There is one bidder, but I do not know who it is. All I'm doing is watching it. Since I have a 12mm Japanese Mortise chisel on it's way here….let me know how it works when you get that pigsticker…..


----------



## DLK

I'll wait a few hours before I put in a bid.


----------



## WillliamMSP

I've got a Narex in that size, otherwise I'd be tempted, though I wouldn't be surprised to see the price move out of my target range before it's said and done. There seemed to be a good number of pig stickers at the MWTCA meet, so I might just pick some up at the next one.


----------



## bandit571

If and when that 12mm ( 1/2"?) Mortise chisel ever arrives from Okinawa, Japan…..I'll post a few before and afters of it. twould be my first Japanese style chisel of any sort.

@ $5.99 with one bid so far…....maybe a twenty to get it to the new place? Thought I'd watch it awhile….

That Japanese one costs $11.50, with free shipping. Seems to be on a Pony Express Horse, somewhere between Chicago and here…...took almost a week just to get to Chicago…...that pony maybe awfully worn out when it gets here….


----------



## DLK

I really don't need it either. I have a full set of the Narex mortise chisels. I'm just a sucker for chisels.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Pig stickers are impressive hunks of steel and wood. They weren't very high on my 'need' list at the last meet, but they were so manly and purposeful that I was very tempted.


----------



## bandit571

4 bids on that Pigsticker last I looked, someone wants this chisel…...


----------



## DLK

2 bidders going to war over it. I may stay out. Its getting pricey and I have my eye on something else.


----------



## DLK

O.K. I put a bid in early as I be in a meeting around when it ends.


----------



## DLK

Sorry, Bandit I missed getting it. It went for $22.50 + $9.45 = $31.49. More then what I wanted to commit. But thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Woodiewannabe

Just in case anyone was still wondering/interested in this previous post, I finally was able to discover who the maker was for my chisel. 
The trademark is an anvil inscribed with R T Co., with "Trade" on the left and "Mark" on the right, all above "warranted" 
The "R T" is not distinguishable on my chisel, but it stands for Riverside Tool Co based out of New York, NY. Can't find anything else on them yet. 


> - Woodiewannabe


----------



## Tim457

An update post? Amazing, I think you broke the internet since people updating earlier posts are so rare.

Looks like the stamp was a little lighter on the side that would have made it easier to identify. Sorry, but I don't have any more info on Riverside Tool Co either.


----------



## unbob

I have put together a set of different branded chisels using Padauk with bronze trim. The one in the photo is a 1/2 " Zenith.


----------



## ToddJB

Awesome! I love those ferrules did you make those?


----------



## unbob

Thank you, yes I made the ferrules out of scrap bronze pieces.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Beautiful work, Bob!


----------



## ToddJB

Awesome work, Bob.


----------



## dbray45

Smitty - go to japanwoodworker.com (here in the US and CA) for some of these nice toys.

Company was bought by Woodcraft


----------



## bandit571

Will have to go sit by the mailbox today….Japanese Mortise chisel from Okinawa is coming today..

Not really wood chisels, but…these came from a tool box I "picked" over the weekend..









Apparently, these have been well used….

Will update when the mailbox item arrives…


----------



## DLK

Bandit are any of those cold chisels marked "Stanley alloy - 74 - 1/2"


----------



## bandit571

Only one had any markings…..Standard was the name on it. None were 1/2" wide, all were wider.


----------



## DLK

O.K. Thanks. I'm looking for one.


----------



## bandit571

The only 1/2" cold chisel I have is marked as an Enderres, however,this came in the mail today..









A rather big Japanese Mortise chisel….1/2" wide..









All the way from Okinawa, Japan. 









The only thing I've done to it, was to remove the rust on the hoop









It might just find some use in my shop….


----------



## DLK

Looks nice. I'm resting my elbow and arm from chopping ash dovetails.


----------



## bandit571

Need to find out more on these style of chisels…..this one is quite sharp as is, not sure if it will need any work done…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Those are some nice chisels, Dave. A bit out of my price range for what amounts to a curiosity at this point, but I'll keep them in mind.


----------



## bandit571

Picked a T H Witherby 1/2" bevel edge, socket chisel, with handle….









Paid $5….Tain't "patina" on it, that be Clearcoat the seller applies to prevent rust…..bear to strip off, too…
The bits were a dollar each, Irwins, I think…


----------



## Woodiewannabe

Nice find. I just picked myself a 1/2" No. 750 for $2.


----------



## Woodiewannabe

Was lucky enough to find a 5/8" Stanley Everlasting today.


















Markings are a little worn and there's some pitting on the underside, but I think it can be addressed easily with a new bevel.


----------



## Brit

Finally got my 9/16" and 5/8" mortise chisels re-handled.










New 5mm thick hard leather washers to fit each bolster. I used black edging fluid to match them to the other chisels in the set.










I shaped them using my Pique 6, 9 and 12 Liogier rasps and then P80, P180 and P240 sandpaper. Finish is BLO and wax.





































I'm quite pleased with the way they came out.


----------



## CO_Goose

Wow! Nice work, they look spectacular.


----------



## ShaneA

Great looking set. Really, really nice.


----------



## DanKrager

That looks like dining room silverware, Brit. Good for eating pork?

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Well done Andy. They should be good for your children's children and then some.


----------



## Brit

Thanks guys. The hunt for a 3/4" to complete the set goes on.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Oh my - beautiful.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

They look awesome Andy! The Hunt goes on.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

I just spent 3 hours of close contact with a $1 chisel, I still have a few more till She is satisfied.


----------



## Brit

Nice work Turtle. Is your wife a carver?


----------



## jwmalone

Cant find a post sure its been mentioned or asked, are corsair chisels any good, just bought two at a garage sale for a dollar apiece (cant go wrong there) they have transparent orange handles on them. I've heard the name but not to familiar with them. will they hold an edge is all I really want to know before I take the time to put new handles on them. I like mine similar to what brit done (nice work by the way) only mine are usually 5 inches or so.


----------



## bandit571

Corsair was a line of tools made by Great Neck Tool Co. Supposed to be their better line of tools.


----------



## jwmalone

Thanks Bandit.


----------



## dbray45

Very nice Andy.

Ever notice that after you have fixed a tool - new tote on a saw, new scales on your knives, cleaned up and sharpened the saws, you tend to step back and appreciate how you got there? I do.


----------



## DLK

Andy. Those are very nice chisels. But you know that. I am very jealous.


----------



## Brit

Thanks David and yes I totally agree with you. I have had to re-handle three of these chisels and I've totally enjoyed the process, especially the last two where I got to use my Liogier rasps. I got totally absorbed in the process.

Don - Yep, I do know that. ) This is the first time I've tried to collect a set of something. I'm not a very good tool collector though as I get too impatient. I want them all NOW. I look on ebay every week and I'm still searching for the 3/4" size.

I actually won three more tonight. The first is 3/16" which I will re-handle and it will join the set in place of the undersize 1/4" chisel that currently sits in the 3/16" slot in the set.










The other two are both 1/8" chisels. Although there's nothing wrong with the 1/8" which is currently in the set, I'll pick the best one of the three and re-sell the other two. I bought them because good 1/8" mortise chisels are quite hard to find. I picked these up for next to nothing and they both appear to be full length.



















As a side note, I have never seen a 1/8" I Sorby mortise chisel that has the punch logo on it. They all just seem to say "I Sorby Cast Steel." Maybe they didn't put the logo on the 1/8" for some reason although I can't think why.


----------



## blodgettwoodworking

I found a box of old witherby chisels at a yard sale and pretty much tossed all my stanley's and marples. As far as off the counter new chisels I really like 3cherrys.


----------



## bandit571

Trying to learn what I can about this 12mm/1/2" mortise chisel…









Has a single bevel..









And has a hollow in the back..









And an iron hoop on top…









And came via Okinawa, Japan. Haven't found any makers marks, either. Was sharp enough, it cut it's own way out of the mailing bags…..

Might be a decent enough mortise chisel?


----------



## DLK

Who makes or made a good bent gouge or spoon gouge for making a large deep soup ladle? Where I might buy one? New or used.


----------



## Brit

Don K - Hans Karlsson is about the best you can get today, but Pfeil, Hirsch, etc all make them.

Take a look here: http://countryworkshops.org/gouges.html


----------



## DLK

Thanks Andy. They do like nice. But pricey. Maybe a birthday present. What is your opinion of "SJ ADDIS" ?


----------



## Brit

SJ ADDIS chisels are very nice vintage chisels. They were popular amongst carvers so there's quite a few of them on ebay. As long as they haven't been incorrectly sharpened or worn down too much, you should be fine.


----------



## DLK

Yes I was seeing them on ebay. Lots of Henry Taylor too.


----------



## CyberDyneSystems

I've got a nice set of Henry Taylor crank necks. Got em for a steal. Very nice.


----------



## DLK

I have not found a deal yet.


----------



## jdh122

I'm in France for work for several months, which means no workshop, but also means access to cheaper old tools in flea markets. Today I went to an annual neighborhood flea market and bought these two gouges for 5 euros. They seem to have unused. On searching online I discovered that these are actually surgeon's tools. I see no reason that I won't be able to carve wood with them, as the steel should be OK (seems to be stainless, so they can be cleaned/sterilized).


----------



## TheFridge

That is mildly disturbing. Nice tools though.


----------



## MNclone

I've got a 1 1/4" swan chisel with a broken handle that I can't seem to remove. There is a good amount of wood on the handle but it is cracked in half. 
Any tips on how to remove?


----------



## bandit571

Bought a mortise chisel yesterday, and a handle…..$1 each. Got home and installed handle into the chisel









Stamped as a Buck Brothers ( NOT the one from Home Depot) and is 3/8" wide..









Will need some work on the bevel, and back..









Which means these two Permaloid 3/4" chisels will have to wait









They were also a dollar each…


----------



## JayT

> I ve got a 1 1/4" swan chisel with a broken handle that I can t seem to remove. There is a good amount of wood on the handle but it is cracked in half.
> Any tips on how to remove?
> 
> - MNclone


If it's a socket chisel, I've cut them off just above the socket, then drilled a hole into the socket and pried out the remainder of the wood in pieces. Maybe someone else has a better method.


----------



## donwilwol

I usually drill as much as a can. Sometimes a little heat helps if they've been epoxied in.


----------



## Tim457

I cut and drilled one too and it works, but If I tried another I think I'd try to hold the handle tightly in a vise with the chisel down and use a piece of hardwood as a battering ram and tap all around with a hammer until it released. Make sure you put something under it if you have concrete floors. Can always cut and drill if that doesn't work. Will probably take some heat like Don said if they're epoxied.


----------



## ToddJB

Thoughts?

http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5767671061.html


----------



## JayT

Todd, if you can confirm they are Fugikawa, then it appears they'd be worth the price. I don't know enough about Japanese makers to know, however. I've seen super cheap Japanese style chisels on ebay and would be afraid they are closer to those than a quality set unless someone can confirm the makers mark.


----------



## ToddJB

Ha. Yeah. I can't read Japanese - probably says "Harbor Freight"


----------



## DLK

If they were cheap Japanese or Harbor Freight they would be far less then $100. I'd say closer to $20. So I suspect, that they may be decent enough but not superior chisels.


----------



## Brit

> I ve got a 1 1/4" swan chisel with a broken handle that I can t seem to remove. There is a good amount of wood on the handle but it is cracked in half.
> Any tips on how to remove?
> 
> - MNclone
> 
> If it s a socket chisel, I ve cut them off just above the socket, then drilled a hole into the socket and pried out the remainder of the wood in pieces. Maybe someone else has a better method.
> 
> - JayT


You could also probably squirt the handle with a bit of lighter fluid and set fire to the handle.


----------



## Woodiewannabe

*Best Response Award*


> You could also probably squirt the handle with a bit of lighter fluid and set fire to the handle.
> 
> - Brit


----------



## Brit

HAHA - Thanks!


----------



## bandit571

Mortise chisels:
The two newest ones in the shop









Shorter one is the Japanese 12mm, longer one is a Buck Brothers 3/8" 
Backs are a bit different..









Seems I now have a decent set of mortise chisels?









The BB one needs a little more work for it to be sharp..








Haven't needed to sharpen the Japanese one…yet.


----------



## ReptheZia

I was just gifted this set of chisels by my step-sister. I tried to do some research about the year(s) they !

were made and possible value. ( http://sawnutz.galootcentral.com/buck/charles_buck.htm) Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything that helped me besides huge chunks of time where they stamped different names depending on the business transitions (Charles buck-buck brothers).

I know there are some incredibly educated people here, and would love any insight you could provide about these bad boys. Thanks in advance!







!


----------



## DLK

Small question. How you use different honing guides? Do you have more then one?

Motivation: You see there was this Last minute e-bay auction, that included a plug cutter, a doweling jig, and odd hold down thing and a vise style honing guide (cheap clone of the Eclipse). I won it for $0.79 with $6.35 shipping. Not such a bad deal, but what will I do with another honing guide. I already have a veritas MK II, a veritas precision honing guide on the way and a cheap rehabbed Eclipse clone which I have just used to successful shape and sharpen 8 new chisels. Once dialed in I rather like it better then the MK II. So now I have two. What shall I do with it?

By the way once I get the first grind and sharpen done I will often just free hand the necessary additional intermediate honing when in the midst of project.


----------



## Brit

They don't last forever Don. Eventually the wheel will either lock up or wear too much. Keep it for when that happens.


----------



## DLK

> They don t last forever Don. Eventually the wheel will either lock up or wear too much. Keep it for when that happens.
> 
> - Brit


That is a good plan. So it was a good buy … if it still works. I hope the old veritas I have struggled to get still works. It will be used for mortis chisels that will not clamp in the "eclipse" or the "Mk 2". I had hoped to get a MF 240 but they are over eBay priced.


----------



## bandit571

Still using the MK1…...









And tried to get a mortise chisel to work with it…









3/8" Buck Brothers…...jig did not hold it very well. This is the results of free-handing it, without the jig, back was done, as well…









Might do the trick. The other two chisels that were done..









8mm from Aldis, and a 1/2" bevel edge from Witherby. 









This is the Witherby, after I had LOWERED the bevel angle from 40 degrees to 25. Now a paring chisel.

Got two more of the Aldis chisels done today. That means there is just one more to sharpen. Hey, I did get almost a year's worth of use between sharpenings…..

Post a picture, AFTER all four are done. I'm trying to get my "Go-To" set sharpened back up, before the next project should start up.


----------



## bandit571

Chisel set is now sharpened up…









WorkZone set from Aldi's. Tried out a different honing guide









Works IF you have enough room. General No. 810?

Chisel in it is a Fulton 1/2" socket chisel…...might need a need handle?


----------



## Brit

I finally have all the sizes of English Mortise chisel that I Sorby used to make. All the chisels have the punch brand except the smallest 1/8th which is I Sorby, but does not have the Punch brand. Funnily enough I've seen about four I. Sorby 1/8th chisels now and none of them have had the Punch brand on them. If I eventually find one in good condition, I'll swap it out. Also the 3/4" is a no name chisel with the MOD arrow on it. I very much doubt I will ever find a 3/4" I Sorby Punch brand chisel and since this is the only 3/4" mortise chisel I've ever seen here in the UK, I though I'd better get it as a stand in. The sizes are 1/8", 3/16", 1/4", 5/16", 3/8", 7/16", 1/2", 9/16", 5/8", 3/4".


----------



## WillliamMSP

I'm envious of that set, Andy. I might wait to see if I can find one or two nice, reasonably-priced 'stickers at the next MWTCA meet in Feb, otherwise I'll order a Ray Iles or two.


----------



## Brit

I'll tell you something though Bill, I am never trying to collect a complete set of any other vintage tools. I become too obsessive about it and have to search the internet every day for anything I'm missing. Life is too short for that.


----------



## Tim457

That is a sweet sweet set, I can imagine on the obsession it would take to get them all.


----------



## WillliamMSP

> I ll tell you something though Bill, I am never trying to collect a complete set of any other vintage tools. I become too obsessive about it and have to search the internet every day for anything I m missing. Life is too short for that.
> 
> - Brit


Ha - I can't imagine that I'd ever be a completist, but I'll be sure to keep your warning in mind!


----------



## Mosquito

I know the feeling Andy… Keen Kutter KK bench planes, Stanley Type 11's… Still working on that one last Siegley No. 3, and a couple more #45's to go…


----------



## donwilwol

The problem is I always pay to much for the last few pieces for a set, then find them cheap, then have duplicates, but refuse to sell the duplicates out of spite.


----------



## Brit

Yeah I've got about six duplicates. I think I'll probably restore them and sell them on or give them away. I won't be doing it any time soon though as I've got other things that have to take priority.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Anyone have have experience with the older, wood-handled Marples bench chisels? I tried searching, but the results get drowned by the Blue Chip and more recent variants. Came across a 1/4" and (I think) 1" locally for about $25 each. Not 100% certain, but I think that they're like the bevel edge chisels in this pic -


----------



## dbray45

Andy - that is a very nice set of chisels. As much as I use mortise chisels, a set like that is invaluable and well worth the time.


----------



## theoldfart

Some new goodies, the gouge courtesy of Poopiekat, the Pfiels courtesy of Crags List


----------



## DanKrager

And the collection grows… TOF.

DanK


----------



## punkin611

the Chisels I use I soaked for 48 hours in liq. nitrogen they are old Stanley 750s. I don't know if it helps with keeping an edge but I like to think so.


----------



## dbray45

It grows quickly


----------



## Dennisgrosen

ok I deffently need a new stack of towels after reading through this and other epic treads 
about handtools on L j 
great work foks and thank you for sharing it with us wanabees woodworker

nice set of pigstickers Brit
sadly I just have to dig into the basement and see if I can find my old stickers 
its embarrassing that havn´t got around them after I bought them years ago

take care every one …........... some of the worst accidents is done by handtools

Dennis


----------



## dbray45

And some of the greatest work is done with hand tools. The idea is to be careful.

Power tools can take appendages in a split second, hand tools do the same only in smaller pieces.


----------



## bandit571

Do tell….my Aldi's chisel just barely grazed a finger tonight..









Bevel is polished enough that I can see myself in it….the Chisel?









Came from Aldis…..


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

My new favorite bench chisel, A Thomas Ibbotson 1" firmer with a new boxwood handle. I put a good solid two hours into flattening the back and getting out the pits at the edge but it was worth the time. I think the old cast steel will go toe to toe with LV's PMV 11.


----------



## Woodiewannabe

That Ibbotson is a beauty. I have a trademark stumper for anyone interested.
















I know Greaves began using electro boracic steel, but I can't come up with any other makers that might match the long name.


----------



## mike1981

Owao Nice chisel!


----------



## TheFridge

> Anyone have have experience with the older, wood-handled Marples bench chisels? I tried searching, but the results get drowned by the Blue Chip and more recent variants. Came across a 1/4" and (I think) 1" locally for about $25 each. Not 100% certain, but I think that they re like the bevel edge chisels in this pic -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - WillliamMSP


I think those are Paul S. personal faves


----------



## Bertha

Did some chisel stuff. Started leatherworking.




























All Butchers.

Working on these Butcher, Addis, and Mathiesons.










Bunch of Butcher and Addis gouges to sharpen










Butcher pigstickers










Massive Butcher shallow outcannel










All my quick grabs are against the wall.


----------



## TheFridge

Nice set. I wish I had some moulding planes.


----------



## Tim457

Nice setup indeed. Planes chisels, saws all handy to grab and use. I too like the molding planes and want some.


----------



## pontic

I have a set of Sorby's 3/4"-2" a set of old craftsman 1/4"-1" 
Some Gedore metric chisels I got in Germany my mortise chisels are Made by Some Company in England.
If I could get my lazy but to sharpen them more often I would get prettier dovetails.


----------



## WayneC

I've been assembling a set of Japanese Chisels. These are currently en route from Japan.


----------



## Tim457

Nice set Wayne, lots of character. You can just see the old craftsman that used them sitting on the floor making something cool.

Brings up a question, Japanese chisels are usually a harder steel forged on and old chisels in the west used to be like that so the cutting edge could be harder steel. I don't think even the high end chisels made now are like that. Given the cost of high end chisels, I'd be surprised if that was because of cost. So why aren't western chisels made like that now?


----------



## Bertha

I don't own many Japanese chisels but I'm putting together a Frankenset. They seem to hold an edge well but I don't own any mortisers, so Wayne would be the one to comment. I know I have a lot of annealed plane irons from yesteryear.


----------



## BillWhite

Bertha, you and I share a kindred spirit. I'm a Butcher fan as well.
Tenon saw, woody with Butcher iron and breaker, chisels, and lathe tools.
Great steel, and they maintain well. Never had a rust prob either.
Bill


----------



## Bertha

Bill, definitely my favorite steel. I know it's sacrilege, but I've been grinding bevels into my spares. I've got just about all the others and they just don't seem to compare. My second choices are Witherby, Addis, and Greaves. I don't so much care for Swan or DR Barton. Mathiesons are great for plough irons but only pretty-good in chisels. Out of the newer chisels, I like the Iles, but they still can't compare to a Butcher. I prefer a tang over a socket, as a general rule. Not really sure why.

I found this great history lesson:

http://contrib2.wkfinetools.com/tweedaleG/Butcher/01-History-Butcher.asp


----------



## Bertha

Can you imagine if Ron Hock came out with chisels? Do it, Ron!


----------



## bandit571

Have too many "extra" chisels in the shop, needed a place to stash them..









Bottom drawer









Top drawer..









Has a home, underneath the bench…


----------



## WayneC

I know on the Japanese chisels, that the good ones are still blacksmith made using traditional methods. I've picked up a bunch on eBay to restore and put back to use. I'll try to grab some photos. Also, there is a cool Japanese tool store about an hour and a half away. Lots of cool stuff to see there.


----------



## Marcial

Here's my "class photo" of my chisels- went on a sharpening binge this weekend. Japanese chisels are one of my favorite things in woodworking. They are a wonderful example of Wabi-Sabi. The handles and collars wear their age and use proudly and have a simplicity and humbleness about them. The business end, however, can compete with anything developed in the 21st century.


----------



## WayneC

Lovely. I need to clean all of mine up and sharpen them. I've assembled a set over the last few months.


----------



## ShaneA

^ oh wow! that is a nice looking photo. Japanese chisels are just cool to me, no real reason why. Just cool.


----------



## WayneC

There are a ton of them on ebay. Search on Nomi .


----------



## Bertha

I'm like Shane. The legacy of them is quite interesting to me. I completely understand why they are so valued by their keepers. Also like Marcial, I really admire the simplicity and texture. I fill my Ebay watch list up with them regularly but I rarely win.

Wayne, if I had a tool store like that nearby, I'd be homeless with a lot of tools. It's hard to believe a shop like that actually exists! I'm bad enough about Woodcraft 1 1/2 hours away.


----------



## WayneC

> I m like Shane. The legacy of them is quite interesting to me. I completely understand why they are so valued by their keepers. Also like Marcial, I really admire the simplicity and texture. I fill my Ebay watch list up with them regularly but I rarely win.
> 
> Wayne, if I had a tool store like that nearby, I d be homeless with a lot of tools. It s hard to believe a shop like that actually exists! I m bad enough about Woodcraft 1 1/2 hours away.
> 
> - Bertha


It's actually Japanese Saws that are on my wish list from Hida. I have Rockler 10 minutes from work and Woodcraft about 20 minutes from the house so I hear you.


----------



## Bertha

Wayne, I made the switch from Eastern to Western saws about a year ago. I still pull our my dozuki for speed and kerf when cutting off turned chisel handles, etc. It took a lot of getting used to. After I became somewhat confident sawing and my speed increased, I would get sloppy with my flexible saws. I tried a rigid spine for a while but I was breaking teeth all the time for some reason. I'm a novice with the Western saws and have difficulty starting a cut. I'm not convinced one bit that Western saws are superior but I'm enjoying them for the time being.

Edit: oh and Hida has a couple sets of 10 chisels for around a grand. That ain't bad. I mean, expensive, but not all that bad.


----------



## Tim457

Hah, then there's these hand forged chisels where the price is "if you have to ask, you can't afford them" 
http://www.hidatool.com/woodworking/chisels/fujihiro-mokume-sword-steel-chisels-set-of-10


----------



## ShaneA

Yeah, I don't even have to ask…cause I know I can't afford them. Those just look expensive.


----------



## WayneC

Hida is too close. I use both eastern and western saws.. Just rounding out my eastern selection.


----------



## Bertha

^ I like that ebony is a "default" wood. "I'd really like these chisels, but can I get them in aspen?" In my way of thinking, I don't deserve a set of fine Japanese chisels because I don't know anything about the history or makers (I do have that Japanese joinery book, though). I don't know my Fruiiji Lohoup from a Fruit Loop.


----------



## ShaneA

^ that is what keeps me from buying vintage on the Bay, I have an entry level new set. But I lust for the real deal vintage hand made. But I am a round eye schmuck who doesn't know one maker from the next. It is like they are all talking Japanese or something.

Edit: Buggles music playing the background, lol.


----------



## bandit571

Have managed to snare ONE Japanese Mortise chisel last year..









12mm wide….then managed to get a Witherby 3/8" wide one later in the year..









The Japanese one came from Okinawa, Japan…$10 counting shipping….The Witherby? $1









Trying to build of a set…..Buck Brothers, Butchers, New Haven Edge Tool ( 1/4" at that) along with the two biggens..


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Hah, then there s these hand forged chisels where the price is "if you have to ask, you can t afford them"
> http://www.hidatool.com/woodworking/chisels/fujihiro-mokume-sword-steel-chisels-set-of-10
> 
> - Tim


I can actually tell you because I did ask lol, it's between $150-250 depending on size of chisel. I actually have 3 of the Koyamaichi dragon bench chisels from ToolsFromJapan they are close in price to the Fujihiro, but a little cheaper and they are wonderful to use. I am of the Schwarz anarchist mentality that I like having a small amount of very good tools rather than a large amount of middling tools that I might not ever use.

I'm probably not your average weekend warrior as I have a bit of disposable income and indulge alot heavier than your typical hobbyist woodworker, but I can and so I do, but I also do a lot of rust hunting and reselling of tools to gain profits to buy other tools I want.


----------



## Tim457

> Hah, then there s these hand forged chisels where the price is "if you have to ask, you can t afford them"
> http://www.hidatool.com/woodworking/chisels/fujihiro-mokume-sword-steel-chisels-set-of-10
> 
> - Tim
> 
> I can actually tell you because I did ask lol, it s between $150-250 depending on size of chisel. I actually have 3 of the Koyamaichi dragon bench chisels from ToolsFromJapan they are close in price to the Fujihiro, but a little cheaper and they are wonderful to use. I am of the Schwarz anarchist mentality that I like having a small amount of very good tools rather than a large amount of middling tools that I might not ever use.
> 
> I m probably not your average weekend warrior as I have a bit of disposable income and indulge alot heavier than your typical hobbyist woodworker, but I can and so I do, but I also do a lot of rust hunting and reselling of tools to gain profits to buy other tools I want.
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


Honestly that's not as much as I expected for a hand made chisel from an experienced maker. I theoretically believe in the idea of fewer higher quality tools, but I can't turn down good tools cheap, and I haven't gotten around to selling any. Maybe I should do more of that.


----------



## Bertha

Does anyone have any Blue Spruce?


----------



## DLK

> Does anyone have any Blue Spruce?
> 
> - Bertha


We grow black spruce ,white spruce, and Norway spruce but we have some non-native Colorado blue spruce.
How much lumber do you …... oh wait your talking about chisels …. never mind.


----------



## bandit571

Have some White Pine…
User selection at the Dungeon Shop…









A very motley bunch…but they all work nicely…


----------



## DanKrager

Ya, blue spruce are hard to grow and ours died without producing a single chisel, and it took ten years to do that!

DanK


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Does anyone have any Blue Spruce?
> 
> - Bertha


I have a marking knife and bird cage awl in African Blacwood (god I love the look of that stuff) I had a couple of there chisels, but I like my Japanese ones much better, although I'm thinking I may grab a fishtail one or the set once I start making some new cabinet drawers.


----------



## Bertha

Nick, I put in an order, admittedly just because I like the way they look. I have a marking knife fetish and I've got the BS, too. Out of all of my knives, I think I like the Hock the best, which I handled in….you guessed it, African Blackwood! I like my birdcage from Czech Edge. I've got an awl problem, too. Thanks to everyone who commented on the tree. I didn't even remember that it was a tree after Blue Spruce started making tools.


----------



## onoitsmatt

Someone mentioned the Schwartz's approach to having a few really good tools vs a whole lot of tools that will do the job but are not amazing. As a hoarder like you guys, I have a lot of tools and most of them have been in a box since their purchase awaiting clean-up, honing, fettling.

I have been kind of re-evaluating my pile of tools and wondering if I should be trimming things down to just a few tools. I know that I have about a dozen "go-to" tools that get 90% of the work done and then a handful of others that I'd probably use if I took the time to get them cleaned up/set up.

So in the spirit of this, I went through the chisel pile to see if I could just sell them all on the bay and buy a few really good chisels like the PMV11 or Blue Spruce or something. Thus I visited this thread and like a dummy have read through the entire thing only to learn that maybe a few original 750's is what I need. I have a 3/4" 750 that was one of my first chisel finds and it is my favorite.

Here's what I have (left to right):

Small, worn out gouge labeled "Feifer & Ludewig Mannheim" (will post a photo of the stamp on it, can't find anything on this one), followed by an unmarked 1/2" socket chisel, and a 1/4" socket chisel that looks like it may be a Butcher (will post a photo of its stamp too), the aforementioned 3/4" Stanley 750, a 1/4" Stanley 720, 3/8" Stanley Everlasting, 4 Buck brothers socket chisels 1/4", 3/8", 5/8" and 7/8". Then a pair of Buck brothers tang chisels 3/8" and 1/2", followed by a pair of Buck Brothers Gouges 1/2" and about 1 3/8", 3 Fulton socket chisels are 3/8" and 1" with a 1/8" pig sticker, then a 3/4" Craftsman, a 1" Jaxon and a 1" EC Berg Eskiltuna, and finally a 1/2" Japanese chisel simply marked "Japan" missing the ring on the handle (photo of it below as well).










Makers mark on the German Gouge:









Looks like a Butcher stamp?









And the Japanese chisel:


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Someone mentioned the Schwartz s approach to having a few really good tools vs a whole lot of tools that will do the job but are not amazing. As a hoarder like you guys, I have a lot of tools and most of them have been in a box since their purchase awaiting clean-up, honing, fettling.
> 
> - onoitsmatt


I used to just buy any old tool whenever I needed one or thought it could help me do things quicker, I've since learned for myself anyway, that it only leads me to hoarding large amounts of tools that I rarely if ever used. So I just started buying really good tools that I use on regular basis and although the other tool might make it faster for a certain project it helps me form a sort of familiar feel for the tool I have and gives me more predictability in what it will and can do.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I've slowed myself down to learn the tools I use and it helps give me a feel for if it will work for me. I've tried numerous bench chisels and didn't really like any of them till I bought the Japanese ones I have now. I do still have a couple Stanley SW chisels I'm reluctant to give up because they are the first ones I restored and used and I spent a hell of a lot of time getting them back to usable condition.

To each their own, but I like having less tools, less to sharpen, less to clean up, less to store, if I ever get to meet The Schwarz the first thing I'll be doing is thanking him for turning me onto this idea and opening my eyes to the fact that I don't need 5,000 tools to get the job done. It may take me longer, but I don't work in a production shop and I do this to relax so I'm in no hurry.


----------



## onoitsmatt

Nick, I think you summarized my thoughts on it much better than I did. I enjoy going out to look for old tools and won't pass up a $2 chisel whether I need it or not. Lately, I won't bother cleaning up a tool until I really need it, which is almost never. So the "to do" pile grows and grows. While the tool I actually us remains pretty constant. Just thinking I should invest in better tools for the few that get regular use.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Nick, I think you summarized my thoughts on it much better than I did. I enjoy going out to look for old tools and won t pass up a $2 chisel whether I need it or not. Lately, I won t bother cleaning up a tool until I really need it, which is almost never. So the "to do" pile grows and grows. While the tool I actually us remains pretty constant. Just thinking I should invest in better tools for the few that get regular use.
> 
> - onoitsmatt


Hey I hear you, I seek out old tools because I enjoy restoring them and then selling them to gain profits for new tools when needed, that and it's fun…for me anyway.


----------



## onoitsmatt

Not sure how, but I forgot to include these bigguns. Left to Right: 1 1/2" unmarked, 3/4" corner chisel, very rusty and haven't cleaned it up. No makers mark I can find (yet). And a 2" L&IJ White.


----------



## bandit571

A store in town is only open on Tuesday afternoons….last week I got a Dunlap plane, this week?









Small chisels. One is a gouge, by Spear & Jackson, that fancy handled one is a skew, with Schmidt on the blade

One of the Buck Brothers chisels is quite pointy, another of the three is very sharp skew, and the third, while a different handle, is a single beveled skew…









The three tiny red handled ones are by Millers Falls…a "V" chisel, another skew, and a "fishtail" with a straight edge. Their handles have Millers Falls stamped into them.

Spent $15 for these 8 chisels…now I am wondering what I have got. 









Carvers? Dovetails? the Millers Falls chisels are about the length of an ink pen….


----------



## putty

> Spent $15 for these 8 chisels…now I am wondering what I have got.


You got a great deal


----------



## Woodiewannabe

> Looks like a Butcher stamp?


I've seen this one recently, but can't quite place it. It's not a Butcher though.

-found it. 
You'll see a feint "D. E." in the center. I believe it stands for Diamond Edge. 
Here's a complete example:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Offering-a-Vintage-DE-Arrow-Trade-Mark-Mortise-Chisel-/321902079615


----------



## bandit571

The "Arrow" stamp MIGHT be a Buck Brothers stamp?


----------



## onoitsmatt

Here's a better shot of the arrow. Has a diamondy looking bit on one side. This photo shows about all I can see in person if not more.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Here s a better shot of the arrow. Has a diamondy looking bit on one side. This photo shows about all I can see in person if not more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - onoitsmatt


Looks like the Butcher arrow, but they usually had a Maltese cross at the head of the arrow and a B with a circle around it near the fletching.

I'm pretty sure Woodie is spot on as you can see something faintly in the center of the arrow and the diamond shape going around it.


----------



## Woodiewannabe

I would say fairly confidently that it is a Diamond Edge brand Chisel produced by the Shapleigh Hardware Co from roughly 1863-1940 when it was combined into Keen Kutter.


----------



## bandit571

Those Millers Falls chisels I picked the other day….they USED to be a part of set No. 106.

The fancy handled one? Still no clue….

When did Spear & Jackson make gouges? It has a "S&J" inside an oval, stamped beside the spelled out names.

She had quite a few other such chisels in a box…...wanted too much for the entire box. Debating on another visit, next Tuesday afternoon….


----------



## bandit571

Stopped at a little place called Brandt,OH today…..spent $0.75…









1" wide gouge..









Leather washer..









Steel ferrel….took a bit a work when I got home..









But it seems to look a little better. Handle was way too dry, and had a bunch of little "cracks"...BLO to the rescue









Need to learn to sharpen one of these things..









I doubt IF I will find a maker's mark on this one….but, for 75cents? I can live with it…


----------



## bandit571

Might have found a clue…









Seems the style of handle matches my Buck Brother chisels









Other than being steel instead of brass, they could be twins….Hmmm?

may have to go and look up Vintage Buck Brothers gouges…..


----------



## Woodiewannabe

Anyone ever hear of "Your Money's Worth" chisels, or know who makes them?


----------



## punkin611

Question; are new Stanley SW chisels treated with Liquid nitrogen? It seems to be a common treatment for toughing up cutting tools. I wonder if treating old chisels with liq. nitrogen would help them hold an edge better?


----------



## Tim457

I don't think cryo treatment works with O1 steel, but I could be wrong. Either way I'm pretty sure the Stanley SW aren't treated that way or else they would be advertising the heck out of that.


----------



## CyberDyneSystems

> Anyone ever hear of "Your Money s Worth" chisels, or know who makes them?
> 
> - Woodiewannabe


"Worth" is a brand name in old western chisels to be sure, but I had not heard the slogan you list before. 
Googling worth chisels appears to be impossible as Google assumes "worth" = value, not a brand name.
I did find another with your stamp though;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/132139359206?rmvSB=true

Albert2114 on ebay is a long time seller that refits with very nice handles before re-selling.


----------



## ToddJB

Cross posting:

Well my chisel game just went from "aight" to "dang, bro"

$35 got me 29 buck bro and pfeil chisel and a couple mallets, and all the sharpening gear, and a leather roll, and a Rockwell lathe chisel, and a marples mortise chisel.

boom


----------



## UpstateNYdude

Jeez, could they actually see the amount of money you were handing them damn…that's like $1 an item or less…YOU SUCK!


----------



## DanKrager

Ya, 10-4 on the YOU SUCK! Congratulations.

We need to develop a "YOU SUCK" sticker to be printed out and worn for 10 days.

DanK


----------



## Woodiewannabe

I second that motion…


----------



## waho6o9

Congrats ToddJB that is incredible!


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks dudes. I'm blessed to be their new owner. I had exactly one carving chisel prior to this. I've got a lot of learning to do.


----------



## theoldfart

Todd, I have a fan carving I could let you do!


----------



## HokieKen

Geeze you really suck Todd!


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, you won't need a dust collector with how much YOU SUCK you just inherited Todd lol

Congrats though Todd, that's an awesome score What was the story behind them?


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks boyz, I am happy to be the next caretaker. I rolled up to a sizeable "posh ranch" outside of town. As we're walking to his barn I was picking his brain as to how he came across them. He bought a mountain property and the previous owner had left these tools - he didn't know the specifics behind it. Based on the circumstances I didn't feel bad getting this kind of deal.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

When yer ready for a new tool , the tool god lets you know by placing it in front of you. The tool god is sending you a message….I think the message is now that you/ve got em. you gotta learn about them and use them!

Eric


----------



## DLK

That would be Hephaestus (aka Vulcon) I suppose.


----------



## woodcox

Finally finished my Bucks. I used the last of the Birdseye burl for a quick rack also. 1-1/4,1-1/2 and 1-3/4. I'm almost certain the big one started life as a cranked neck someone straightened out. These buck bros. have some good steel considering the time it took to bring them back to life.


----------



## bandit571

$1 Chisel needs an ID, please….









3/4" wide..( I also have a 1-1/2" that looks the same)









Has no markings on it.


----------



## MagicalMichael

I am looking at a new set of chisels and have been fascinated by the new IBC, which seem to offer the best of socket & tang approaches. I live in a rural area of northern VT where retailers cannot afford to stock hi end hand tools so have never actually touched any ( my marples are 30 years old.) I have wondered about the weight of the IBC chisels with the added hardware inside the handle. Has anyone on the list used them? how do the feel compared to Lie-Nielsen or Veritas chisels?
Michael


----------



## waho6o9

IBC chisels combine the benefits of both the tang and socket designs. The blade tang extends through a hardened steel ferrule and into the wood, but instead of glue, it has a finely threaded end that attaches it to a tapped 3/8" round x 3.00" long hardened steel core inserted through the center of the wood. The other end of the handle's steel core precisely and securely attaches the aluminum striking cap. Tightening the handle and sheathed blade with a quick twist, seals the chisel together by compression. Designed to be extremely rigid tang style chisels with strong handles that can also detach like socket chisels, but only if or when you want them to. When the handle is detached, the blade can be separated from the ferrule, as well, to lay it on a flat surface for re-sharpening.

https://www.ibctools.ca/shop/ibc-bench-chisels-walnut/










I was unaware of IBCs' chisel offerings and their innovative designs.

Thanks Michael!


----------



## ToddJB

Woody, those are stone cold stunners. Good job


----------



## Brit

Awesome job Woodie! Nice rack too.


----------



## bandit571

A "foundling"...









2" wide…has a double mushroom..









Got rid of the mushrooms….cleaned out the socket, and added a new handle








Even got the back flattened..








Had to straighten out the curved edge, now nice and straight, and sharp.

paid a dollar bill for the chisel.


----------



## DLK

Looks like it took a lot of work!


----------



## bandit571

meh..hour or two…..the chisel has seen a lot of work before I bought it, now it is ready for a bit more..at least it won't be abused by hammers, anymore.


----------



## summerfi

Chisels come in all sizes. Here are some for a really BIG job. I got these in a tool lot I bought this summer. The largest one had a nice handle, so I turned matching handles for the other two. They are, top to bottom, 3" slick by Fulton, 2" square edge by L & IJ White, and 1-3/4" bevel edge Hickory brand, which may be by Greenlee. The plane is just for scale. The 3" slick is 28-1/4" from tip of blade to tip of handle. I doubt I'll ever have a use for these, so I guess they'll just be decorations.


----------



## theoldfart

Wonderful decorations Bob. The new handles turned out nicely. pun intended!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice, Bob! I like the chest they're on, too!


----------



## summerfi

The chest was made by my grandpappy. http://lumberjocks.com/summerfi/blog/39020


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

And I even commented on it! Still love it.


----------



## TheFridge

I have a buddy that to used the biguns for repairing framing every once in awhile.

Fantastic chest.


----------



## bandit571

Picked a couple chisels today…









1-1/4" firmer, and a 1/4" mortise wannabe









$7 and change..can't complain too much..

I did see one of those "slicks" today…..too rich for my wallet. Also saw a pair of Pig Stickers both were $40+ and had more pits than a teenager with acne. Passed. 3 line Bedrock 606..$200 ? Really? Not for me..


----------



## Brit

Nice job Bob. They look slick.


----------



## bandit571

Cleaned up and sharpened…








BLO on the large wood handle…BLUE paint is now gone.


----------



## Bertha

Picked up a few Hearnshaw chisels and I'm really impressed. Mine are really stocky tangs and seem to hold an edge well.

http://www.cantab.net/users/ctcw/GeorgeEliza.html


----------



## bandit571

Long time, no see…....stick around a while!


----------



## Bertha

Thanks, Bandit. I've got a bunch of new (old) chisels to share.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Pictures or you don't really have them…


----------



## theoldfart

Was that Al? I thought he moved to another dimension!


----------



## theoldfart

I did just pick up a Sargent 5/8.









Edge left a bit to be desired 









A bit better, still a little to go


----------



## Bertha

Fine, Smit! I'll post a bunch when I get home.

My recent take from a Maine visit:










I was throwing away an old solid wood futon and said, wait, I see a chisel rack here. These are just some recent restores. I've literally got hundreds of chisels now, the bulk of them in rolls.










don't know why that's sideways.


----------



## Bertha

WAIT! That actually was a lie. That photo is from last year. THIS is my take from last week.










And to add insult, Smit, those Mathieson plough irons were $15 for the set.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> My recent take from a Maine visit
> 
> - Bertha


Holy crap, did you leave anything behind? Love that little hammer in the second row. And how's the moulding planes collection coming along? Had time to work with them much yet?

EDIT: $15? You suk… (at least that's what BYo told me when I saw him a couple weeks ago…)


----------



## LDO2802

2500 comments are a lot to go through to answer a question, so I will probably ask it again. Has anyone gone with Dastra, Auriou, Two Cherries, or any of the other European tools other than Pfeil? Mary May stated those were some of the top ones she utilized along with Ashley Isles and another brand from England she said weren't as good.

Oh, and you still suck Todd!


----------



## DLK

I recently bought a Hirsch and I am very impressed. I am looking to buy more of them.


----------



## chrisstef

Al, is that a strop in the bottom right hand corner or just a new bedroom paddle?


----------



## LDO2802

> I recently bought a Hirsch and I am very impressed. I am looking to buy more of them.
> 
> - Combo Prof


What about the Hirsch impresses you? I have Pfeil and I find that they take an edge well, but it must be constantly maintained even when working with basswood. My woodriver chisels last longer but don't have as keen an edge.


----------



## DLK

> I recently bought a Hirsch and I am very impressed. I am looking to buy more of them.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> What about the Hirsch impresses you? I have Pfeil and I find that they take an edge well, but it must be constantly maintained even when working with basswood. My woodriver chisels last longer but don t have as keen an edge.
> 
> - LDO2802


I did a complete 6 inch square rosette carving in basswood on just the initial sharpening. Most of the carving was done with Hirsch #7 and #3 straight gouges.

They seem to be as good or better then my Ashley Iles and cheaper. Much better then Henry Taylor.

I don't think you will know what you like until you try them.

BTW I am not certain but I belive Hirsch and two cherries may be made by the same manufacture or by adjacent manufactures.


----------



## rtbrmb

some life to the old thread-
Bertha-waiting for you to answer chrisstef's question.

Bill in MI


----------



## Bertha

As promised:

Butchers


----------



## Bertha




----------



## Bertha




----------



## Bertha




----------



## Bertha




----------



## Bertha




----------



## Bertha

Butcher stickers


----------



## Bertha

Sadly, I have many others. Let me know if you'd like to see anything up close or have any measurements taken.


----------



## Bertha

Sadly, I have many others. Let me know if you'd like to see anything up close or have any measurements taken.


----------



## WayneC

You have been busy.


----------



## Bertha

lol Wayne. I discovered tool rolls. You buy/make one, fill it up, stow it away, repeat.


----------



## WayneC

But have you discovered Japanese tool rolls and chisels?


----------



## Bertha

eh, you caught that. I can't stop with them. I always made fun of the nerds that knew all the makers, etc. Now I'm becoming that nerd. I'm very particular, though, liking only severe bevels. Meaning near-dovetail or better. I've accumulated many that are simply to bulky to realistically use. I don't want to spend the money for the long paring chisels. And the f'g shipping is a real drag.

They really are a totally different animal. The mallet blow seems to transmit all that extra weight into the cut. They don't seem to meander as much. I rarely re-handle them, so that's a plus.


----------



## Tim457

Jebus you hoarder, save some for the rest of us! Do I sound jealous, no not at all, thanks. I need to get started on leather work and make some rolls too. I have some cloth but it's not the same.


----------



## Bertha

Tim, the one at the top is my grown up version, kind of the limits of my skill. The other handmade ones are from my formative years, like when Lysdexic couldn't really decide which bathroom better suited "it". It's a lot of fun and quite simple. You can use a saw vise to hold the leather until you make a fancy clamp (they have a name but I don't know it). Supplies are dirt cheap. I've also bought a few from H/N in Montana. I really like their stuff and they're good people. If you don't need to make something huge, you can buy scrap leather for cheap. If you like copper rivets, Ebay is probably the cheapest source.

Start with making a holder for your 66 beader blades. Small and handy.


----------



## WayneC

> You can use a saw vise to hold the leather until you make a fancy clamp (they have a name but I don t know it).
> 
> - Bertha


Stitching pony


----------



## Bertha

Ah! Stitching pony! Leatherworking is an excuse to build a stitching pony.


----------



## ShaneA

Looks like you got vintage Japanese in there Al. Are you finding them in the wild, or strictly EBay? Whom are the makers you are gravitating to, and why?


----------



## chrisstef

Whats this, an interview? ^


----------



## ShaneA

Damn, bro…just trying to learn sumpin' here. Step off!


----------



## TheFridge

Pre or post 


> Damn, bro…just trying to learn sumpin here. Stef off!
> 
> - ShaneA


There


----------



## chrisstef

> Damn, bro…just trying to learn sumpin here. Step off!
> 
> - ShaneA


Sorry buddy.

Where do you see your tool hoarding in 5 years?


----------



## ShaneA

Prolly in a rehab type facility, padded walls, fancy jackets…you know, scary stuff. Voices, meds, the whole 9 : (

Edit: Fridge would probably be the only one to come visit me. You know, because he would want me to leave him my collection once I am permanently incarcerated.


----------



## WayneC

You forgot the jitters….


----------



## Mosquito

Damn, I step away from this thread for a couple days and Al drops the chisel bomb lol

If anyone's got a lead on a 1/4" Keen Kutter socket chisel (with the larger bolster and leather end) let me know


----------



## DLK

> You can use a saw vise to hold the leather until you make a fancy clamp (they have a name but I don t know it).
> 
> - Bertha
> 
> Stitching pony
> 
> - WayneC


Wow never knew. I think I have passed up several stitching ponys thinking they were unusually small saw vises.


----------



## Bertha

From experience, make sure it's a real "hitching" pony for leatherwork, not a "seemingly harmless" dude pony. I learned the difference the hard way after responding to an ad on Craigslist.


----------



## DLK

You will have to illuminate me on the differences between a "stitching pony" and a "dude pony". Or I am just dense and it was a joke explained by the picture.


----------



## Ocelot

Ok. You guys and gals wit mountains of collectable chisels…

Maybe this is the wrong place to ask, but what do you think about skew chisels?

.. I mean to actually use.


----------



## knockknock

> Ok. You guys and gals wit mountains of collectable chisels…
> 
> Maybe this is the wrong place to ask, but what do you think about skew chisels?
> 
> .. I mean to actually use.
> 
> - Ocelot


My chisels aren't collectable.

I find them handy for cleaning out the corners of pins in half-blind dove tails and the likes. But fishtail chisels or just skewing regular chisels (no one sees the over cut) also work.

I am brutal on chisels and have broken the tips off of two different brands of O1 skews (the tips can be delicate). Currently I am using an 8mm left and 5mm right chrome vanadium skew chisels, and waiting to see if I kill these or not.


----------



## Bertha

Prof, clearly some dude pony research is in order ;-)

I'm with knock on skews. Mine are simply functional. I use them for the same reasons. I'll occasionally grab one for some bizarre off-label use but mine are generally for 1/2 blinds. I've got a handful of antique ones but my users are Ashley Iles. I don't mind switching chisels, so I'm not after fishtails. They are definitely attractive in a weird way but I don't see a real advantage over a normal thin chisel. I'm broken a lot of bench chisels but I've never broken a Butcher. I bought 2 broken pigstickers. If actually being used to cut mortises (unlikely) when broken, that's incredibly manly.


----------



## Ocelot

I have to admit I have 3 pairs of Narex skews 12, 20, 26mm - but have only used the 12s - and then, I usually pick it up, try to use it and switch back to a straight chisel. I'm not much of a woodworker, but I buy tools. They were "on sale."

I did stick the corner of one in my thumb one time. They are good for that.


----------



## JayT

I use skew chisels for cleaning up dovetails, but don't see any reason whatsoever to go buy expensive new ones. Find a couple used chisels and regrind them to what you want. My skews are a couple 3/8 Stanley 60's (yes, the plastic handled ones with metal caps) and they work just fine, even if they don't look the greatest. The main reason for using them is that I picked them up for almost nothing. Five minutes on the grinder and they were skew chisels.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> I use skew chisels for cleaning up dovetails, but don t see any reason whatsoever to go buy expensive new ones. Find a couple used chisels and regrind them to what you want. My skews are a couple 3/8 Stanley 60 s (yes, the plastic handled ones with metal caps) and they work just fine, even if they don t look the greatest. The main reason for using them is that I picked them up for almost nothing. Five minutes on the grinder and they were skew chisels.
> 
> - JayT


I couldn't agree more, spending a lot on a skew isn't worth it even to me and I spend quite a bit on my tools. I only ever use mine for the exact same reason as JayT said and I used some old Buck Bros one I found for like a quarter at a garage sale.


----------



## DanKrager

Stanley 60's, are they collectables now?

DanK


----------



## Ocelot

Some time ago on some thread the question was asked "what is your favorite chisel?"

Somebody answered "3/8"

I've decided I pretty much like 3/8 ish chisels too. I've accumulated a few from about 8mm through 3/8 in to 10mm.

I'm thinking I should buy several more….

...just in case I ever want to do some woodworking or something.

Since all of mine are pretty much low end specimens, maybe I should get at least one of those high end ones. Maybe one of those Verizon PMS-11 jobbers.


----------



## bandit571

A "parade" of my users…...


----------



## TheFridge

I'm kinda partial to the 1/2" myself.


----------



## Brit

I've heard that Fridge )


----------



## Ocelot

Well… I actually sorta meant it as a joke. :-D


----------



## Ocelot

Fridge, do I see 2 MF #1 spokeshaves in you box!


----------



## BillWhite

Bertha, you're the reason that I can't find any Butcher mortising chisels. YOU HAVE 'EM ALLLLLLL! 
Bill


----------



## TheFridge

It's two No 1s but one isn't a MF, it's a copy.


----------



## Ocelot

St. James? How well does the copy work?


----------



## Ocelot

Looks like I killed another thread.


----------



## bandit571

Too busy using mine…..


----------



## TheFridge

No it's not a st.james copy. Don't know as it doesn't have a brand stamp. Never used it yet. Gonna try to modify it one day, to do even tighter curves, and didn't want a real no 1 to be the Guinea pig


----------



## Bertha

Here are a couple of Narex skew 1/2's that I did some work on. I was surprised how much work they needed but they were cheap additions to boost my shopping cart up to free shipping.










Lol, Bill, those don't include my sharpened ones! I buy them whenever I see them in case Schwartz mentions them again and they go sky high.

I'm doing a blog about sharpening and there's a couple of chisels to look at.


























This is how I'm sharpening now. 30 on hollow.


----------



## Ocelot

My narex chisels actually all looked ok when I got them. Luck of the draw it seems.

My most recent chisel purchase was a new set of 3 Chinese made chisels I bought from a seller in Japan for $2.52 with free shipping. I felt sorry for the guy. He would have come out ahead if he had just given them to a stranger on the street


----------



## TheFridge

My experience with narex. Milling flaw right at the tip. I still think it's the outlier.


----------



## Bertha

I think Narex is a good value. It's not Witherby steel but better metal than the price would suggest. I don't have enough of them to really judge the QC. The bench ones I use are terribly abused, chopping out lock mortises on cheap doors, splitting handles off of old chisels, etc. Poor dogs have never even seen a stone.


----------



## bandit571

Users…









Wood being worked on is maple..









Curly Maple….


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah a good value they are. If mine weren't bungled I wouldn't have sent them back and bought one LN chisel. The chisel that started it all.


----------



## Bertha

Yeah, Fridge. A quality chisel will do that. It was a Witherby that someone had already restored that started me. I figure if you're going to spend hours and hours using it, why not make it enjoyable.


----------



## Mosquito

I tend to agree on the Narex chisels. Almost seems hit or miss on how much work they need out of the box. Good value, and a lot of people love them for it. I haven't had or used their bench chisels, but I had a full set of their mortise chisels. Sold them, and bought 2 Ray Iles chisels instead. I would totally do it again too.


----------



## Bertha

Mos, I've got a full set of Iles. They're my daily users. The steel doesn't hold up as well as a vintage chisel and I'm not wild about the handles either but they're very well balanced and I like the shape. I would definitely recommend them knowing in advance that the steel is a bit soft. I haven't fooled with hardening them myself.


----------



## Brit

You can't beat a set of Ashley Iles Bevel Edged Chisels for daily users IMO. Excellent value for money, well balanced and hold a good edge for O1 steel which I prefer over A2, D2 or PMV-11. I sharpen mine with a 23 degree primary bevel and about a 25 degree micro-bevel. I will say though that you should expect to put in some work to commission them, but that is soon forgotten once you get them how you like them.

<a>


----------



## Mosquito

Interesting Andy, I haven't been the most satisfied with my Ashley Iles. They're good chisels, comfortable, balance well, and not super expensive, but the edges on mine don't seem to hold up very well, at least for my liking. Maybe that's the oak, though lol I might try regrinding them to match what you suggest, and see how they do.

Also, to anyone who has them or plans to, take a nail set and put a dimple in the ferrule (I did this on the back side of the chisel). Almost every single one of mine fell off in use, and this helps them stay where they belong (with out having to glue them in place). If you just pare with them, they'll probably be fine.


----------



## gargey

Hard for me to understand why one's best chisels wouldn't be one's daily users.

Using a cheaper/bulkier chisel for particularly rough or harsh work is a different story.

I use my PMV-11s for everything in order to leverage the benefits they offer. Need to buy some more of those suckers.


----------



## Brit

That's a good trick with the nail set Mos. None of mine have come off yet, but to be fair I haven't had them that long. I ground them the way I did because I mostly use them for paring work and some light chopping and a there is a massive difference between paring with a 25 degree edge instead of a 30 degree edge. If people want to use these for mortising, then 30 degrees would be better. As you know, for mortising I use my I. Sorbys. (sorry I couldn't resist posting them again.)

<a>







</a>

[IMG alt="I. Sorby Mortise Chisels ...r.com/4413/35925341653_e502cce29a_c.jpg[/IMG]


----------



## ShaneA

Oh Andy, post away. Those things are nice, always good to see them. I like the AI chisels I have.


----------



## DanKrager

+1 on the angles for paring vs pounding. If you try to drive a 25° angle, it will almost certainly break off. If it's not hard enough to break off, it will bend over. Ashley Isles may be OK, I've never used them, but Ben Dover chisels are just no good.

Wish you and your chisel sets were closer, Brit. Your chisels feel like family…do you carry photos of them in your wallet? LAWL. You have every reason to show them off.

I would never dream of using the 25° highest quality chisels on dirty or unknown recycled wood, or utility work. I kinda look at it as mudding with my Cadillac, or these days Tesla. Utility work is often done on lower quality woods and the 30° Stanley 60's hold up very well in those circumstances. On the other hand, I probably wouldn't drive my Stanleys to a wedding.

DanK


----------



## chrisstef

I would do unspeakable things to those Sorby's. Gawd, theyre beautiful.


----------



## Brit

*Dan* - I also have a set of Irwin Blue Chip chisels that I use when I need to get down and dirty with a bit of wood. I hate the plastic handles, but you can pound on them 'till the cows come home without any issues.

*Stef* - They certainly are gorgeous and I love using them. There are so many little features that tell you you're using a tool at the height of it's evolution.

I just sent some images to WKFinetools.com in response to an article they posted on I. Sorby mortise chisels.


----------



## punkin611

Take this for it's worth, I send out all my old chisels to be cryogenically treated. I think it makes them stay sharper longer.


----------



## chrisstef

Id be worried id come back with Ted William's head instead of my 3/8" fishtail ^


----------



## Ocelot

> Take this for it s worth, I send out all my old chisels to be cryogenically treated. I think it makes them stay sharper longer.
> 
> - punkin611


I wonder what that does to the handles?

We used to have a "liquid air" company in town. I would see their tanker trucks on the road from time to time. One time, a tanker filled with liquid nitrogen ran off in the ditch somewhere. Apparently the tow truck wasn't powerful enough to pull it out loaded. The driver told the police that he could open a valve and dump the load in the ditch and it would do no harm. After consulting with HazMat they let him do it. It made a huge cloud of fog and probably froze a few frogs. We could have cryo-treated a couple tons of chisels in that ditch!

-Paul


----------



## Ocelot

Just to show my ignorance… where did I. Sorby leave off and Rbt. Sorby begin … and what's the diff?


----------



## bandit571

Had a "working day" today…









Might be a few in there you'd know…...


----------



## Bertha

Brit, those stickers are obscene. I have a serious mortise chisel fetish. Did you get those all at once?


----------



## Brit

No Al, I've been collecting them (mostly from ebay.co.uk) over the last 6 or 7 years. The biggest one (3/4") isn't I. Sorby, but matches the others well. It is by an unknown maker and bears the military arrow mark. I had to re-handle 5 of them and cut new leather washers. Still on the hunt for a 3/4" I. Sorby Punch brand, but I don't hold out much hope.


----------



## WayneC

> No Al, I ve been collecting them (mostly from ebay.co.uk) over the last 6 or 7 years. The biggest one (3/4") isn t I. Sorby, but matches the others well. It is by an unknown maker and bears the military arrow mark. I had to re-handle 5 of them and cut new leather washers. Still on the hunt for a 3/4" I. Sorby Punch brand, but I don t hold out much hope.
> 
> - Brit


I'm still looking for you.


----------



## punkin611

Treating the handles too doesn't effect them IMO.


----------



## Brit

*Ocelot* - I. Sorby and Robert Sorby were two completely different companies that just shared the same surname. They were not related to each other in any way, shape or form. You have to look at the lineage of Wm. Marples & Sons to see the history of I. Sorby

Someone (I don't know who or I would give credit) had a stab at tracing the lineage of Wm. Marples & Sons and I have typed this out again to make it easier to read here as the original was illegible. You should take this with a pinch of salt however, since trying to investigate the history of these old companies is fraught with ambiguities and contradictions. For example, on Backsaw.net they contest that Isaac Sorby even existed. However it is typical of how these firms merged and acquired each other over the years and at least demonstrates how confusing it can be.










Here are some of the trademarks used by I. Sorby:




























Below you can see some of the trade adverts that were used at various point in the lineage:














































You're probably even more confused now though than you were before.


----------



## Brit

Thanks Wayne.


----------



## Bertha

I have some reeeeally good Sorbies. I've got a few lousy recent ones, too.

Few recent chisels to share:

tiny Butcher with silly handle from scrap.










An unusual Butcher with an uncommon stamp. Weird handle that I left alone.










A really pretty Butcher that some jackoff buffed on a buffing wheel before putting on Ebay. It sure was shiny but he rounded off the last 3/4 inch (irreparably). I cut it off and took probably 1/32 off the whole back to get past the convexity. Handle is original.










Really neat Addis #1 with original handle. It's more of an icepick than anything. It came with an absurd 20 degree bevel which immediately burned off. I reground it at 30, red hotted it, and quenched it in oil. Cool little chisel.


----------



## Brit

*Al* - Nice Butchers. I'm with you on the first handle, but I like the other three. I think chisels with octagonal bolsters tend to be quite old. BTW - We need to see your Sorbys.


----------



## Bertha

I pulled out some Sorby's (Sorbies? lol) and I'm fixing up one newer and one older in my sharpening blog. I've got them both done and I'll post the pics here tonight. Tell me what you think. In the meantime, enjoy this.Is there some sort of Brookes Brothers connection to Sorby?


----------



## Bertha

For Brit

An older guy in rough shape




























All cleaned up



















Great little chisel


----------



## Bertha

A newer one
A whole lot like my Ashley Iles but, admittedly, a bit better made.










Bevel on the Iles a bit wider



















Mine's used










The steel feels softer than the vintage one



















I left a little shelf to show the factory grind marks










Nice chisel










So my verdict?

The quality of manufacture on the newer one is outstanding. It's really a gorgeous little chisel. But in my opinion, the steel in the older one is better. The new one loses an edge quicker than a same-size Iles, which loses an edge quicker than it should.

The older one loses an edge quicker than a same-size Butcher, but that doesn't surprise me.

I would choose the older one were I forced to choose. I am surprised, however, how much I like the looks of the newer one. All this is very subjective, of course.


----------



## Brit

Nice chisels Al and great restoration job. I've always thought the Ashley Iles chisels could be improved aesthetically if they used tapered ferrules. I've got a few older firmer chisels too that I need to re-handle. Someone put knew handles on them, but they did a crap job and they look awful. I think I might turn a couple into skew chisels.


----------



## Bundoman

Flea market find last weekend for a 10 spot. Not a timber framer but always kinda wanted one of these. A little pitted but I think I can get the back smooth with some elbow grease. The handle I had to make and it is from some Hickory firewood. DR Barton is the maker. As for the upside down pictures, if anyone knows how to correct this, please let me know. I posted from an Ipad photo library and it rotates my photos 180 degrees when I do. So, i apologize for the horrible pictures


----------



## WayneC

Very nice chisel.


----------



## rtbrmb

I took the liberty of straightening out the photos-nice deal for $10.

Bill in MI


----------



## Brit

Congrats! Lovely chisel.


----------



## TheFridge

Yes. I need to get one of those for a buddy.


----------



## Bertha

That's a quality maker and I like the shape. A little pitting won't be the end for a big bruiser like that.


----------



## Bertha

A weird kinda-mortise Butcher.










I flattened, squared, 30 hollow grind, hand hone, powerstrop




























cool chisel. I left the handle alone for now. Looks like oak.










I'm interested what people think about hollow ground mortise chisels. I know it's frowned upon but I don't remember why. It seems like it could help with chip clearance and it's really the back that you register. I've got another identical chisel that I'll use a flat bevel. I'll let you know what I find.

It looks like a really old stamp. Not really sure about the stamp evolution but they seem wildly different over time.


----------



## bandit571

Just for users…









See anything you know?









Just the ones I am using, right now…..


----------



## DanKrager

Bertha, the question of hollow grind or flat grind is largely a function of what you have to sharpen it with, the rest being personal preference. It makes sense to me that the hollow grind is not as sturdy as a flat grind because in the latter there is more metal closer to the cutting edge. In fact, it is recommended by those with more experience than I have using them, that a rounded (convex) bevel is even more desirable. These chisels take horrendous abuse in hogging out the deep mortises in production environments where levering the large chip is a common practice. In a hobby shop, and used with some care and minimal levering, I don't see a huge problem with a hollow grind as shown. It would be sorely disappointing to snap off a corner back a ways at some point, so you have to know yourself and what risk you are willing to live with.

DanK


----------



## BillWhite

Bertha, I envy your Butcher chisel.
I do not hollow grind, but whatever works for ya is good for me.
Bill


----------



## theoldfart

I don't use hollow grinding on my mortise chisels. Given the pressure generated at the leading edge and pressure when levering out the waste I want as thick a bevel as I can get.


----------



## Bertha

Thanks guys. The convex actually makes the most sense, as it would aid in the prying. Theoretically, the tip should be more fragile. It doesn't take that much longer to get a straight bevel, so I'll do that on my next one. I've got the mortise chisel adapter for the Veritas jig but I don't know how on Earth it works. I've got to post a plane refurb from today but after that, I'll post some chisels. Thanks again for your thoughts.


----------



## theoldfart

I've got the mortise chisel adapter for the Veritas jig but I don't know how on Earth it works.

Didn't know they had it. Pics and a report would be cool Al.


----------



## DLK

See this pic.


----------



## Bertha

Consider it done, fart


----------



## DLK

Well except for the report. 

Looks like it could be useful, but I don't have one. I have used a Veritas MK 1, but this jig may be better.


----------



## donwilwol

You should try boatman53's sharpening jig if Jim has it ready yet.

http://www.timetestedtools.net/2017/04/30/sharpening-jig-review-from-ancora-yacht-service/


----------



## Bertha

^I'll definitely be getting one of those.

Here's the adapter. It comes with an elongated thumbscrew.










Loaded up



















It definitely gives a lot of clearance



















That chisel is just there as a dummy. It's the one I'm refurbing today.


----------



## Bertha

Butcher quasimortise with straight bevel this time. Before.





































Strange things have been done with the bevel. I hope the back is good enough not to cut off.


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Al.
Boatmans jig is the best one I've tried.


----------



## CHS49

What do I have?

The kids chipped-in and gave me a gift card. I used it to buy Robert Sorby mortising chisels, with Sheffield England on the blades. Handles are plastic, colored maroon (dark red). Bought them at Woodcraft store. Had to sharpen them a bit with a diamond stone and they work fine. They were a bit pricey, but the gift card took care of that.

After looking through this thread I am curious as to what I have.


----------



## Bertha

You came to the right place. Brit, tell him what he has!


----------



## Brit

> A weird kinda-mortise Butcher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I flattened, squared, 30 hollow grind, hand hone, powerstrop
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cool chisel. I left the handle alone for now. Looks like oak.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I m interested what people think about hollow ground mortise chisels. I know it s frowned upon but I don t remember why. It seems like it could help with chip clearance and it s really the back that you register. I ve got another identical chisel that I ll use a flat bevel. I ll let you know what I find.
> 
> It looks like a really old stamp. Not really sure about the stamp evolution but they seem wildly different over time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Bertha


Nice find Al. You don't see that many socket mortise chisels.

Re: Hollow grinding. A flat grind is better for two reasons. 1) It gives more support to the cutting edge when levering the chisel and 2) the chisel will function better when mortising. This would be a lot easier to demonstrate than describe, but if you set a mortise chisel on wood with the back of the chisel oriented vertically and whack it repeatedly with a mallet, the chisel won't go straight down. Instead it moves down and forwards in the direction of the primary bevel. A primary bevel of 20 degrees and a secondary bevel (not a micro-bevel) of 35 degrees works best IMO.










Mortise chisels work like this. (1) As the chisel moves down, the cutting edge slices through the fibers. (2) As the chisel moves forwards the edges of the back of the chisel shear the fibers from the mortise walls. (3) Then you lever the chisel so the corners of the chisels back break the chip, and (4) lever it back in the other direction which pivots the chisel at the rounded heel ejecting the chip.

Like I said, it is a lot easier to demonstrate than describe. A lot of people don't use mortise chisels correctly from what I've seen, but what you have to realize is that every little detail on these great tools is there for a reason. They work perfectly, quickly and with very little effort when used correctly.


----------



## Brit

*CHS49* - You have Robert Sorby Sash Mortise chisels, so called because they were used for chopping the mortises in sash windows. They are fine for general mortising work and should serve you well.


----------



## knockknock

CHS49 - Something to note on the Robert Sorby sash mortice chisels (which I also have). They have a trapezoidal cross section. The forward/leading flat edge of the chisel is wider, than the trailing edge. So they should be used as Brit described in the answer before yours, and in his picture:










This is so the chisel is easier to remove. This also sort of gives the effect of the chisel cutting/scraping the cheeks when moving forwards, and sliding over the cheeks when moving backwards.


----------



## Bertha

Thanks, Brit. That makes complete sense. I was pretty sure they were flat for a reason. Something about making a square hole with a curved blade didn't seem right. I'll have two by the end of the day and I feel a comparison coming. Using your drawing, I think of the trailing edge trying to jump over the hump and it's gotta find somewhere to go. I bet it tears up the mouth of the mortise by the time you get to the bottom of the socket.

Someone should turn your sketch into a meme and get famous.


----------



## DanKrager

It looks like there's more for me to learn about mortise chisels. Brit's sketches show a pocket for the chip to go into. How does that pocket get there? Is the starting point somewhere in the middle of the mortise and sneak up on the ends?

It makes sense that starting with a V type cut that gets enlarged would be easier cutting than going straight down cross grain. Is the idea to ride the bevel to the bottom of the cut keeping the chisel essentially vertical? If that's the case a flat bevel seems desirable. What advantage does the convex curved bevel offer? Different method?

DanK


----------



## CHS49

Thanks for the info. I'm new to the M&T stuff but have been using chisels all my life. Early on I learned that you get what you pay for and the normal hardware store kind are best avoided. The Sorbys have worked out very well and have solved my problems with M&T"s. But I probably would not have spent the cash without that gift card from the kids.

By the way: The drawing depicts the exact way the Sorby's act when chopping. It took a few mortises to learn how to use them properly. Wish I had found this site sooner.


----------



## Tim457

Well you know more than I do, Dan, but it seems like your very first chop with the mortise chisel is pure compression of the fibers, then the next one a little over takes advantage of that space, goes a little deeper, and allows the chip to come out. That chip makes space for the next one, etc. And yes, my understanding of watching Paul Sellers and others do it, and copying them is that you ride the angle of the bevel down and take a reasonably consistent thickness chip out as you go. Here's the Paul Sellers video: 



 though I see in Peter Follansbee's he does it a little differently.


----------



## Brit

*Dan* - I drew it with half the mortise already excavated purely to illustrate the issue with having a hollow ground primary bevel as the problem is most apparent once you have already achieved some depth with the mortise chisel. When you start out chopping a mortise, you first have to get down to full depth. There are a number of techniques for chopping a mortise with a mortise chisel. Some people start in the middle, some start at one end and work their way along and some people drill a hole at one end to the full depth of the mortise and then start chiseling the waste into that hole. Whichever method you favour, at some point you will reach full depth and I just drew my sketches at that point in the process. Sorry if I confused you.


----------



## DanKrager

It doesn't take much to confuse me, Brit! LOL. I wasn't really confused, just not understanding how the process got to that point using the technique shown. Thanks for the clarity. By the time I get to build something that uses it, I will have slept several times. At my age, sleeping is like drinking too much…brain cells parachute outchyour ears,

DanK


----------



## punkin611

I use a d. press to drill out mortise then chop it out. Takes 5 minuets. I can't help it I'm just lazy.


----------



## Bertha

Lol, I have a mortising machine. I didn't get to that other Butcher yesterday. I did take some pictures of some random chisels from my kind-of-tool-holder-wall-thingy.












































































































































































Biggest butcher I have


----------



## WayneC

Al,

You might have a problem….

Not enough chisels.


----------



## bandit571

hmmm









Hole diggers…..









Fancy handled one? Used to be a brake adjuster tool….use it to clean the chips out of mortises…


----------



## Bertha

You don't know the half of it, Wayne.

Chisels are very rewarding to me. And they're usually cheap. Usually.I really want a newer set of japanese dovetail chisels but I just can't make myself do it. I was also just leafing through the LV catalog and there's several things that have commanded my attention. I wish they weren't so God awful ugly. I know they're probably really smart and sensitive on the inside but I'm too shallow to care.


----------



## Bertha

I also like really tiny chisels for some reason. I wonder why it is that many tool guys gravitate to miniatures. I mean, chariot, slipper planes, etc. They're all more desirable. Stanley 1, 2, etc. Part of it is the rarity, of course; but there's something about dwarf tools. Maybe we should ask Hog. He's like 5'1" on a tall day.


----------



## WayneC

You sound like a good candidate for the Veritas mini tool line.


----------



## WayneC

For example


----------



## Bertha

Laugh now, Wayne. When I cut that mortise hinge with 25 minichisel strokes, you'll be wishing you had a set. I don't know what my problem is with LV. I mean, that's a seriously attractive chisel and I've heard their fancy steel is the cat's pajamas. I think it's like my sawstop thing. I've decided I don't like them and that's that.


----------



## WayneC

For the hinge, I would use a normal chisel and a router plane.


----------



## Bertha

But Lysdexic said he'd never sleep with a man. He was totally inflexible. That was that. Now look at him.

If he can do all that stuff that he does, surely I can give LV a try.


----------



## Bertha

^see, Wayne!? Spoken like a guy with no minichisels!

But yeah, I'd use a marking wheel, square, marking knife, chisel, and a router plane, lol.


----------



## WayneC

Says the guy who uses the word "trannys" in every post. lol.


----------



## Bertha

Precisely. I've never outgrown gay etc humor. I'm the worst with my gay friends. I get a lot of my material that way. And nowadays, there's plenty of hilarity to go around - plushies, bears, you name it. What else am I going to joke about? North Korea?

While I've got you, Wayne, what do you think about LV's combo plane. I certainly don't need another one but I'm strangely attracted to it. I've heard good things about the smaller rebate that's been out for a while. Maybe I'll come out of the LV closet with one of those.

They're also got that horrendous mitre plane but now that I've seen Terry's, nothing will quite do.


----------



## WayneC

It looks nice. Fine adjustment is supposed to be improved. Cost of cutters concerns me. I would like to see sets available rather than an individual cutter sales model. However, 45 and most 55 cutters are supposed to work with it.


----------



## chrisstef

One lee valley chisel doesnt make you Canadian Al. Apply that thought as you may.


----------



## Bertha

^I wasn't going to say it….but I had concerns. I don't know, though, I've got a ton of their work holding stuff. And a lot of garden stuff. I might be teetering closer to canuck than I care to. In other news, I have a friend who was literally banned from Canada for having like 10 DUIs or something absurd like that. I was always pretty impressed by that. The banned part, not the drunk driving part.


----------



## bandit571

Just heard about the spurs on that new combo plane…...soft POS, lost screws…bends too easy, even in ..Pine.


----------



## DLK

^^ I have a friend banned from canada from having a radar detector in his car.


----------



## bandit571

You can be arrested in Virginia for that, too….

I might have a chisel Al doesn't have…









Sitting beside that 1-1/2 firmer chisel…









Has a small end cap…









Did the sell a mortise chisel in a Handy Andy tool set?









Maybe?


----------



## chrisstef

The Molson Ice is no joke Al. That stuff will have ya trying to ride a Caribou in your underpants after a 6 rack and 2 shots of Seagram's.

My good buddy got absolutely housed on some Seagram's 7 back when we were like 15 or 16. My beeper had gone off late at night to help this dude home. Me and another guy basically carried him for 4-5 blocks to his house and got him to the back door. We staked out at the basement window. We watch him walk in and right in front of the window, and his old man, he stumbles, leans against the counter and starts projectile puking. Nothin but the heels of nike's out of us. He proceeded to vomit for something like 36 hours. Lol, i remember that like it was yesterday.


----------



## Bertha

Molson, lol. Is Seagrams made in Canada? I drank myself some Seagrams in the day. The gin was actually pretty decent for swill. What are you, like the drunk doctor? Carrying a pager so you don't miss a single puke?

I ask b/c that's something I might be interested in. There are few things finer than watching someone geyser Hardees all over something/someone. The smell of bourbon and coke instantly brings me back to my fraternity years. My sense of smell is that way, linked to stuff. That's why when I smell freshly baked bread, it instantly brings me back to your vaginitis.


----------



## Bertha

> ^^ I have a friend banned from canada from having a radar detector in his car.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Canada will straight up ban you. I got 2 radar tickets in VA. At the same time. It was one of those K40 jobs. Remember those things? Do they even make radar detectors anymore?


----------



## chrisstef

It was like 1995-1996 …. side showing beeper in a bright green case. $10 bones a month. Cmon man, you werent that far off.

Whats the smell of iron sulfate do to ya? Ya know, like when the sprinkler contractor is cutting cast iron pipe outside of your office. Or hes trying to beat that # 608 fitting into place with a hammer.


----------



## Brit

Two B&W dogs were having a good conversation there for a while. LOL.


----------



## TheFridge

I have gay friends. Or partners…

Hey stef. Introduce yourself.


----------



## Bertha

^Nicely played, Fridge.

Stef, the smell is intoxicating to me. I can't really say why, though. I love the smell after you hack something off with an angle grinder, 200. I got a cordless angle grinder and I'm always looking for something to lop off.

I got an old, old Marples chisel in the mail yesterday. I passed over the back a few times and noticed a common phenomenon. I'm hoping someone (Brit) will jump in with an explanation. I'm going to say tip, bending, maybe even shaft, but I'm serious on this one.

Why, when I flatten the back of the chisel, does it always seem like the very tip is bending away from me. Meaning that I'm getting good flattening except for the last maybe 1/4 inch, which is usually irregular (usually tangential). If it's too far off, I've just been hacking them off and starting fresh.

Per Brit's diagram, it seems like that if they were bent from use, the deflection would be away from the bevel, not towards. Or maybe the tip is straying from downward pressure on the back. I guess there would always be some level of stress toward the back with any strike other than vertical. Maybe someone sharpened the back?

It's quite curious to me and pretty consistent. Any thoughts?


----------



## Brit

Could it be that vintage chisels were used by vintage craftsmen who invariably sharpened on oil stones that were dished? In the days of yore, people weren't as paranoid as we are today about how flat chisels and plane irons need to be.


----------



## Tim457

Oh no, Andy, it can't be that. Chisel and plane iron backs need to be absolutely flat or they can't be sharp. It does seem like a lot of the vintage stuff I get in the backs have a slight bevel on them. Old stones are rarely flat so I think you're right they just sharpened differently and got on with it.


----------



## Bertha

That's the most reasonable hypothesis I've heard. A dished stone would do exactly that If the tip is consistently on the far ascending portion of the dip. I wonder it the bevel is oh-so-slightly convex as a result, same argument. It seems, though, it you're also working the bevel down the center of the stone, it would be dished on both axes. It seems like that action would produce a slight convexity in the back. Which, come to think of it, I see fairly frequently. You know, you flatten the back and it's hard to get those persistent long edges into plane.

I think he's on to something.


----------



## DLK

Tim, I don't think Chisel and plane iron backs need to be absolutely flat to be sharp for otherwise there would be few sharp axes. What is important is that the two surfaces meet sharpley and preferably in a planar curve (or line). So you can put a bevel on the back if you decrease the angle on the front.


----------



## Brit

Don - I'm sure Tim was being sarcastic when he said that.


----------



## DLK

Hard to tell these days what is sarcastic, true or alternative. But he did leave a clue and I missed it.


----------



## DanKrager

Good observation, Brit.

There should be a special font for sarcasm…! 

DanK


----------



## Bertha

I could just put my user name in that font and be good to go.


----------



## Tim457

Hah, sorry, I've heard enough advice on sharpening that actually starts with that advice that I suppose I should have made it more clear I was being sarcastic.


----------



## DLK

> Hah, sorry, I ve heard enough advice on sharpening that actually starts with that advice that I suppose I should have made it more clear I was being sarcastic.
> 
> - Tim


No I was just dense when I read it. I should know better.


----------



## Just_Iain

> Molson, lol. Is Seagrams made in Canada? I drank myself some Seagrams in the day. The gin was actually pretty decent for swill. What are you, like the drunk doctor? Carrying a pager so you don t miss a single puke?
> 
> I ask b/c that s something I might be interested in. There are few things finer than watching someone geyser Hardees all over something/someone. The smell of bourbon and coke instantly brings me back to my fraternity years. My sense of smell is that way, linked to stuff. That s why when I smell freshly baked bread, it instantly brings me back to your vaginitis.
> 
> - Bertha


Seagrams was one of the biggest distilleries in Canada till they sold out. They made the money and the company by supplying the Rum Runners during prohibition. Rumours of the being involved with the actual rum running are heresy.


----------



## Just_Iain

I've got a 5/8" 2 Cherries chisel on eBay last night. Was $20US a good price?


----------



## Brit

*Dan* - A font for sarcasm is a great idea. You know, there's a commonly held belief here in the UK that Americans don't get sarcastic humour. [Sarc font on] I only joined Lumberjocks to do my part in educating you guys. [Sarc font off]. )



> I could just put my user name in that font and be good to go.
> 
> - Bertha


Al - That's hilarious.

Iain - $20 isn't too bad at all.


----------



## DLK

Isn't the sarcasm font "double quotes" ?


----------



## TheFridge

I sure do like proper English. You have to have your wits about you.


----------



## Bertha

^especially when staying at the Wit's Inn.


----------



## Just_Iain

> ^especially when staying at the Wit s Inn.
> 
> - Bertha


Well sad Bertha, well said!


----------



## chrisstef

> ^especially when staying at the Wit s Inn.
> 
> - Bertha


I thought that was just the question your old lady asked in the bedroom. "Wit's In?"


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> I thought that was just the question your old lady asked in the bedroom. "Wit s In?"
> 
> - chrisstef


----------



## Bertha

No, Stef, that was your old lady doing the talking, but her voice was all garbled and I couldn't tell what she was saying.

My old lady says, "which's it in?" When you're as fat as she is, you can never be quite sure.


----------



## bandit571

Like spelling RUN?


----------



## chrisstef

Wow. That escalated quick.

The bag of flour is in the mail.


----------



## Bertha

^I figured why drag it out. It's like mentioning a 3 1/2 foot tall woman. You know where it's going to end up. The wealth of sickness from which to draw is simply too great on both sides. Tip of the fleshberg with global warming. You know.


----------



## Bertha

Got an old Marples up on my blog


----------



## Bertha

Lol, it looks like I was hiding the corner in that picture. Here's a 12000.


----------



## Tim457

That's pretty cool, what did you take those with?


----------



## Bertha

^a 20x microscope


----------



## Brit

That's a beauty!


----------



## Bertha

Andy, another Sorby is in line next. It's a pretty interesting one. I plan to aggressively hand strop it. Just gotta make a strop first lol.


----------



## Just_Iain

My $20 Two Cherries chisel arrived and you could safely give it to a 5 year old. Someone tried to sharpen it on both sides so now I get to grind out that mess (first straighten out the tool rest on the hand grinder) before I can do anything else. I peeked at the pile of chisels to sharpen and if I do one a week, I might finish by next Christmas. Most are Marples blue plastic handles but there are a few others as well as the Sorbeys etc I bought 30 years ago.

I'm running out of excuses. I bought some 1/2" x 4" oak to learn how to do dovetailing and need a couple of these sharp!


----------



## bandit571

Needed a gouge…...









To mill a rest rest..









Under this lid..









As for "Chisels"..









Hmmm, that's not a chisel…. ( 1-1/2" wide firmer?)









That's a chisel…2" wide..by 19" long…









Might have them all sharpened up?


----------



## TheFridge

I think belt sanders were made for old irons and chisels.


----------



## bandit571

Stopped in at the local Aldi's today…..picked up a set of chisels. They had 6 sets…..I got one of them.

Will get a better looking over, tomorrow. Just to see if there was any changes since the first set I bought….


----------



## bandit571

Chisels, from Aldi's….









Will tune them up later. Seem to be the same as what I already have been using…


----------



## bandit571

Now have two sets..









The new set and a 2yr old set….different wood on the handles. 









Blade length is different..









Edges along the length of the blades are thicker, less beveled ( and SHARP!)









I flattened the backs on the new chisels….to match the old chisels. May give the new ones a try on some Maple this week.


----------



## Bertha

So what's the verdict? Are they worth a S? The stylings are James Swan'ish to me and I find that look quite attractive.


----------



## bandit571

The "old" set has held up very well, highly pleased with them. The "new" wood appears to be Euro Beech. Sharpened up nicely. @$1.75 each…..yep, well worth the coins…


----------



## Bertha

You don't say.
I'll grab some.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I've done nothing more than take them out of the package so far and do a once-over visually. If it's possible, I have Buyer's Remorse. I'm not fond of large chisels, not a fan of the hoops, and the side bevels are more pronounced, like paring chisels, than they should be on bevel edged chisels.

I know, they're $7. I haven't used them, I know. Just saying at this point I don't know if I will sharpen or use them. Maybe it's finish, maybe the size, maybe I really don't like tangs.


----------



## ShaneA

I don't know Smitty, you can use them for scraping glue, rough carpentry work, or a Zombie apocalypse…they would be real handy for any of those things without much prep work.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

And I'm hardly one to espouse a minimalist approach to tooldom, but I have other crappy chisels already assigned to those tasks. Oh well. They'll sit in a box for now.


----------



## bandit571

They have been my "Go-to" chisel for over 2 years, now…..hmmm..maybe it is the size of the hands? Handles fit mine….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

They're my hands-down, go in the drawer chisel for the foreseeable future. I don't get the attraction.

EDIT: And if they're right for you, that's fine. Seriously. I don't want this to be seen as chisel bashing, but an honest (contrary) opinion to what everyone else seems to be saying. And I'm okay with not liking them all that much, seeing that they're so cheap in price. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.


----------



## DLK

> I've done nothing more than take them out of the package so far and do a once-over visually. If it's possible, I have Buyer's Remorse. I'm not fond of large chisels, not a fan of the hoops, and the side bevels are more pronounced, like paring chisels, than they should be on bevel edged chisels.
> 
> I know, they're $7. I haven't used them, I know. Just saying at this point I don't know if I will sharpen or use them. Maybe it's finish, maybe the size, maybe I really don't like tangs.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


You do as Paul sellers does. You remove the hoops reshape the ends. Remove the finish and put your own favorite finish on them. Or remove and replace the handle. The steel is fine.


----------



## bandit571

Kind of like the big handles…..was using one of them today to trim tenons…..end of the handle is just about perfect to rest a chin on, to pare a shoulder square. That way, I can look straight down as the chin drives the chisel down.

So far, no ill effects from working on Maple with these chisels..
.









They are a tad too wide to chop the mortises I need…..need a 1/4", an 8mm is a bit too wide.


----------



## Bertha

I have a big rubbermaid bin for chisels that I have just to have. I should rehandle them, etc. You know, give them a chance. But I'm not motivated enough to do so. I've got some Stanleys that I chop outrageous stuff with. Concrete? no problem.

Regarding tangs, Smit. I went for the longest time only liking sockets but never really knew why. I'm tang all the way now and I don't really know why. Maybe it's when you rehandle them and you get to hammer the tang in place. Rewarding. I can make really short tang handles, which I prefer.

That being said, my hands are enormous and I wear a size 13 shoe. Alligator, if you catch my drift.


----------



## Brit

Al - I don't know how you hammer the handle onto the tang, but if you don't do it already, you should try this approach.

1. Drill out the handle with the appropriate sized drill bits relative to the shape/size of the tang going a little bit deeper than the tang is long.
2. Place the handle on the tang and orient it the way you like it according to the grain. If you drilled the holes correctly, you should be able to push the handle onto the tang by hand and it should stop about 5/8" to 3/4" from where you eventually want the handle to end up.
3. Hold the chisel in your hand horizontally by the handle and repeatedly hit the end of the handle with a mallet. With each hit, the tang will move deeper into the hole. Keep hitting it until the tang is seated all the way.

I use this process for fitting chisel handles, file handles, etc. and it really works well. The benefit is that you don't need glue and you don't need to grip the chisel or file in a vise using a death grip that might damage the tool or the vise.


----------



## DanKrager

+1 to Brit's suggested technique. Works well. And the following information may not be needed.

I've read that the permanency of the grip of wood on tang is enhanced by heating the tang just short of red hot, dripping a few drops of water into the handle hole to wet the wood and when the tang is seated, the steam causes an interaction between wood and steel that binds them tighter than glue. It no doubt softens the fibers temporarily, too, so it conforms more completely to the tang. I've tried this on a troublesome garden tool that would not stay seated, and it hasn't popped out yet.

DanK


----------



## Bertha

I have a big rubbermaid bin for chisels that I have just to have. I should rehandle them, etc. You know, give them a chance. But I'm not motivated enough to do so. I've got some Stanleys that I chop outrageous stuff with. Concrete? no problem.

Regarding tangs, Smit. I went for the longest time only liking sockets but never really knew why. I'm tang all the way now and I don't really know why. Maybe it's when you rehandle them and you get to hammer the tang in place. Rewarding. I can make really short tang handles, which I prefer.

That being said, my hands are enormous and I wear a size 13 shoe. Giant chisels make my hands look small.


----------



## Bertha

That's exactly what I do, Andy! I also grip the blade with leather'd vise and tap the handle down with a brass mallet. It goes thud, thud, thid, thid, tat, teet, ting, ting. Very satisfying. I have a hoop setting method that's pretty unconventional. I'll have to post a picture of the "tool" I use.

I'm waiting for the Japanese chisels to make an appearance here. I'm not going to start it ;-)


----------



## Bertha

I've done the red hot poker, as well. The poof of steam is also quite rewarding.


----------



## Bertha

For Andy



















It's not a chisel, so I won't post it here. But I'm on the lookout for anything Sorby I have now.


----------



## TheFridge

Gonna try the aldis out (courtesy of some sweetheart named hokieken). The HFs served their purpose and are set to be retired. I won't lie. I'm too lazy to grind out new bevels.


----------



## Brit

Nice Al. Mr Punch is definitely one of my favourite trade marks.


----------



## DLK

> Gonna try the aldis out (courtesy of some sweetheart named hokieken). The HFs served their purpose and are set to be retired. I won t lie. I m too lazy to grind out new bevels.
> 
> - TheFridge


Paul sellers blog on changing the shape of the handle. I swear there was video but I cannot find it. And this guy turns new handles for them.. Too much work for me I think. Paul talks about putting a london pattern handle on the Aldi chisel in this blog.


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah these will be glue scrapers and for use on nail infested wood.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

They'll be good for that. New handle video above, Don, is awesome. But not the kind of stuff I like doing.


----------



## Bertha

I don't mind making chisel handles. I hate making plane totes.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> I hate making plane totes.
> 
> - Bertha


Ditto. Let us know what you think of the Aldi chisels when you get your set, Al!


----------



## Bertha

Will do! I'll rehandle them in some outrageous way and set them up skew. 'be the envy of all. The cheapest I usually go is Narex and it's like starting with a junky antique. I'd rather just restore the junky antique. I'm a chisel snob, though.

Re totes, I think you have to make a few to sow your oats. I don't want to be that guy with a template/jig and just the right roundover bit. I'm happy to pay for the luxury, as long as it's some dude doing it, not an Amazon subsidiary. I'm really pleased with the hickory ones I've been buying. They look allll wrong without stain but if you don't care, they come nearly done. Few hand passes with paper and you're good to go. They're a computer-like dead fit. I can smell CNC a mile off and I don't think it's that; just some accurate jigs.


----------



## WayneC

Some may be curiously fascinated at what a size 13 chisel handle looks like…. Get cracking on the Aldi chisels Al.


----------



## Bertha

I will.

Me: I need to get some tools.
Fiance: groooooooaaaaaaan
Me: At Aldis
Fiance: Oh, good. Can you pick me up some…..

Do they sell custom length bandsaw blades by any chance?


----------



## WayneC

> Do they sell custom length bandsaw blades by any chance?
> 
> - Bertha


You should just buy a few rolls and weld your own.


----------



## bbasiaga

Here is a chisel that may be worth talking about.










I made this one from a flat piece of O1 steel, with significant help from my brother. It was a really cool project, and created an instant heirloom tool for my family.

I just posted it in my projects as well.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/337889

Thanks,
Brian


----------



## DanKrager

That is one fine looking chisel, Brian. What is it like in action? As in, does it pare easily and cleanly? Keeps an edge, etc.?

DanK


----------



## bbasiaga

Well Dan, I've only had it in working order for a few days, so the jury will be out a while yet on how well it holds an edge. My brother has done several knives and the equipment he has is pretty good about accuracy in the heating/tempering process, so it should be good from a metallurgy perspective.

I did test it on some maple endgrain, some pine, and a couple of oak dowels embedded in a scrap of pine just for testing. It seemed to do pretty good.

-Brian


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Brian, that is an awesome chisel. Congrats on the build, insanely nice work!


----------



## TheFridge

Pretty sweet chisel briana.

Yeah the aldis are nasty. But I think they'll scrape glue  and stuff. HK much appreciated.


----------



## Bertha

That's incredible, Brian!


----------



## Bertha




----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice, indeed.


----------



## DLK

This FW video watch Christian Becksvoort dovetail a drawer packed into a 7-minute edit revealed some tricks I did not know. Enjoy.


----------



## putty

Thanks Don,

Nice video, I really like the pencil trick. It is interesting how little glue he uses, and how it is strategically applied to avoid squeeze out.


----------



## DLK

Yeah me too on the pencil trick. I will watch it again for the strategically applied glue. I also liked the wide slot cut plywood for hanging up the drawer for drying.


----------



## waho6o9

Excellent video thanks Don.


----------



## Brit

I've never seen anyone hit a chisel on the side like he did to break out the waste. He really undercuts his dovetails too doesn't he?


----------



## Mosquito

He does seem to undercut them pretty good, yes. I like the pencil trick, for final paring. I'll have to try that one.


----------



## Brit

Actually I just watched it again. He doesn't hit the side of the chisel, he hits the front of the chisel with his mallet


----------



## TheFridge

Yes. Pencil trick is nice.


----------



## DLK

Three short videos of Bill Carter you might find illuminating:

The blunt chisel technique.
More about blunt chisel.
3 cornered saw file blunted.

It had not occurred to me that sharpening a chisel at close to 90 degrees would be useful. I think this may help in making moulding planes, i.e an alternative or supplement to a float. Perhaps also useful in cleaning up dovetails, mortise and tenons and so on. Anyway it is something to do with those odd bits of old files and and abused chisels we collect and don't know what to do with.


----------



## Bertha

Thanks, Don! That's a chisel I don't have.


----------



## TheFridge

I see Jim Hendricks use a chisel as a scraper a good bit.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

DonK, THANKS for posting those!


----------



## Mosquito

I was just watching those videos a few days ago, and was thinking about giving it a try with my old Bailey chisels


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Might be the perfect use for some Aldi specials too.


----------



## DLK

You are all welcome. It what happens in the middle of the night when I can't sleep.


----------



## WayneC

If you're on Facebook. There are a number of good related groups. Bill Carter's wife (Sarah) is posting quite often in unplugged woodworkers. If you're joining unplugged woodworkers, be sure to answer all three questions.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/213418935481974/

Handplane group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1410047249324398/

Chisel group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1392232640884392/


----------



## putty

If you watch enough TV you can learn things!!! The proper way to remove hinge pins is to use your chisels!!


----------



## Bertha

^lol. I've done things just as bad with department store chisels.


----------



## Just_Iain

> If you watch enough TV you can learn things!!! The proper way to remove hinge pins is to use your chisels!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - putty


Having removed a few years ago, the issue is that if there is no hole in the bottom of pocket side of the hinge leaf, you're going to hit it with something at hand. I preferred a fine tip screwdriver but resorted to a chisel to 'lift and separate' the pin from the hinge leaf then over to the screwdriver. Method depends on if you want to damage and possibly replace the hinge vs the cost of going and getting something not in your toolbag.


----------



## TheFridge

For harbor freight specials that is the perfect tool for the job


----------



## DLK

> If you watch enough TV you can learn things!!! The proper way to remove hinge pins is to use *your* chisels!!
> 
> - putty


Yes I agree. Use *your* chisels, just don't use my chisles.


----------



## Boatman53

So the guy I bought that little vise from that I posted in the vise thread gave these to me after we had settled up and were loading our booty in the truck. He was going to keep them when I first discovered them but in the final moment he gave them to me. I don't think they are real high end but anybody have any ideas what they are? Most have never been used, none have been sharpened, one has a small chip out of the edge.



















Jim


----------



## Bertha

Made a fishtail chisel out of a cheese knife from TJMaxx. Build pics are in my projects. Works nicely.


----------



## dbray45

I do have some HF chisels/screwdrivers/doorstops. About all they are good for.


----------



## RWE

Anyone care to share an opinion on Keen Kutter socket chisels? I am looking to expand my collection, but not to break the bank. Are they worth having?


----------



## Bertha

I've never fooled with them, RWE. I don't see how they could be terrible but I've moved away from sockets and never was a KK guy. I kind of lump them in with the lower priced Stanley lines. I think you'd probably do better piecing together a collection of Stanley 750s. Vintage, of course. They are had for reasonable prices and they're one of the benchmarks in socket chisels, in my opinion. I used to collect Witherby sockets and they are quite fine. They used to be expensive, then came down, then I'm not sure where they are now. Andy really got me interested in the Sorbies. The more I use them, the more I like them. I definitely wouldn't pay a lot for the KKs but they're likely Worlds better than the modern economy offerings. Let us know!


----------



## RWE

Bertha:

I passed on the Keen Kutters. I think that I might as well aim a bit higher and try to get the Witherby or Stanley 750 class. I'll be damned if I haven't rounded out my "needs" in hand saws, back saws, planes, braces, augur bits etc. So chisels are the next focus.

After I get the chisels collected, I guess I will have to reassess my needs and go for my wants. This vintage tool stuff is addictive.


----------



## Bertha

RWE, indeed it is. Don't get started on Japanese chisels, whatever you do.


----------



## bandit571

Handle a gouge in need of a handle….today I found a handle to attach to it…









1/4" out chanel. Steel ferrel. 
Also found these two items..









The pen is there for scale…..1/8" Butcher, and a Rosewood handled screwdriver….

Still need to learn how to sharpen a gouge….


----------



## BlasterStumps

A big portion of my chisels are simply a dog from every town. In amongst the bunch, I have had a MF 1/2" for some time and I really like it. So, I have been watching for other red permaloid handled MF chisels. I found a 3/4" in the local Restore the other day. The cutting edge looked square but was really dull. I cleaned the handle some and used some steel wool on the metal to take off most of the crud and paint, etc., and then gave the cutting edge lots of attention. It turned out pretty good me thinks. I'm glad to have my second MF chisel. I'm all smiles.


----------



## Brit

Bandit - That gouge looks good with it's new handle. I like the little gunmaker's screwdriver too.

Blaster - Congrats. That came up great.


----------



## Bertha

I use those tiny Butchers a lot. Great find. Andy, I'll keep a lookout for those MFs. God knows you're the only person looking for the permaloids, lol. Pretty classic MF, though. Space-agey.


----------



## bandit571

They seem to travel in pairs….usually a 1/2" and a 3/4" size…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Millers Falls tools don't show up too often in my neck of the woods. Every once in a while though something pops up. If it is cheap and looks like it is still in good nick, I will usually grab it, (i.e., the two chisels for 50⍧ each). So far, I have a MF mitre box (well, actually two but one is in pieces) these two chisels, a No 2A hand drill, a push drill, a couple brace drills, some nail sets, a couple bench planes, a couple block planes and one small saw and a few other small tools. My name is Mike and I have a Millers Falls tool addiction. : )


----------



## Bertha

I don't have anything MF aside from drills. Who know how many red-handled eyesores I've passed up over the years. Once I find out who collects what, I keep an eye out. It's a permanent association. Brit and Sorby. Dan and KK. Don and everything. Wayne and Japanese chisels. They don't have to be accurate associations;-)


----------



## bandit571

I even find Millers Falls screwdrivers just sitting around garage sales….cheap. Orange-ish yellow handles, with a black end. They seem to be about even around here with old Stanleys…..


----------



## Bertha

No kidding. I'm going to have to start looking more closely. I wouldn't pick up anything with a plastic handle, so the same might be true for my area.


----------



## DLK

I think regionally you will find one manufacturer over another. We should track this. Figure out what the distribution was. Locally I have never seen a MF chisel. I find bucks, stanley's, lakeside, greenlee. Only MF tool I found up here is the 14c Jack plane. The first plane I restored. All my other MF tools have been purchased online, or found downstate, Florida and New York.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I went out and looked close at a whole drawer full of screwdrivers to see which if any were Millers Falls. I found only one. Strangely enough it is the screwdriver that I carried in my knife pouch all the years I did floor covering (in my earlier life). It is as Bandit described yellow with black in every third indentations along the sides. I packed that screwdriver over about 1/2 of the state of CO over a period of quite a few years. I used it exclusively to change the blades in my carpet knife. I never knew until today that it was a MF tool. Looking closely at it now, I see that I really rounded the tip and need to make it sharp again. That one tool paid for itself over and over again. I will give it some special attention now. 
Mike


----------



## theoldfart

No trouble finding Millers Falls and Goodell Pratt 'round here! 

hehe


----------



## bandit571

Not all Millers Falls screwdrivers had plastic handles…









Some were wooden ones….









And the carving set had red handles of wood….(rest in the photo were Buck Brothers..)


----------



## BlasterStumps

I received the little set of Millers Falls carving chisels a few days ago. I was messing around with some other hand tools so I just set them aside until this morning. I took each one and put a fine edge on them. It didn't look like they had ever been used and certainly had never been sharpened until today. They are made with excellent steel or so it would appear. I've held off buying a carving set until I saw this one. With shipping, $34.99 total. I might look for a little larger gouge now to go with. Anyway, here is a couple pictures:


----------



## Brit

That's a great price for nice carving tools in good condition. Congrats!


----------



## Just_Iain

For those who would state just turn your own, I don't own a lathe nor have access to one.

Having gotten that out of the way, can anyone suggest an on-line source of quality replacement handles for tang chisels? I'll need someone who can ship to Canada.

I need one for my 5/8" Two Cherries and one for my 5/8" Moulson Brothers 'pig sticker'. The Two Cherries has the handle installed off centre with the handle cranked around 15 degrees out of true.

The Moulson Bros has a cracked oak(?) handle with the crack making it possible to see that it is tanged. Also the handle is huge in diameter.

Many Thanks,
Iain


----------



## DLK

You don't need a lathe, a spokeshave, or a draw knife, or even a chisel will do. See for example the end of this article:Make Your Own Chisel Handles - You Don't Even Need a Lathe

Woodcraft has PFEIL replacement handles.

There are several for sale on e-bay too.


----------



## bandit571

There is a seller on fleabay…"antiquesmuggler" that sells those handles…...along with all sorts of carving knifes.


----------



## Just_Iain

I checked for "antiquesmuggler" on eBay with no success but found 253sales and they seem to offer a good collection. And 253sales seems to take orders and that is what I'll need for the big Moulson. The article Don is what I need if I had a draw knife (one more item still on the wish list). It'll help for installing them.

Christmas coming so this will have to wait till January.

I'll try to post pictures of new toys this weekend.

Many Thanks Don and Bandit. 
Iain


----------



## bandit571

Little chisel followed me home, Monday..









Clearcut 1-1/4" Firmer Chisel. haven't done much to it, yet….was working on the rest of the haul…

Clearcut? I also have a panel saw with that logo on it…...might be a Hardware Store' s House Brand?


----------



## DanKrager

Bandit, more camera angles or are those bits for drilling around corners? You come up with some good finds.

DanK

Edit: Never mind… two in a bundle…looks like shadow.


----------



## bandit571

After the tape was removed, and the rust wire wheeled off…


----------



## RWE

The two bits at the bottom look like Jennings Bits. I have collected a few lately. I did not know much about them but after i tried them out, I really like them. They cut a bit better than the Irwin style in my opinion.


----------



## bandit571

One 4/16" is an Irwin ( third one down) the 5/16" is a Bates (?)

Logo on the chisel..









May at one time had a bit more across the top? 
Eggbeater cleaned up rather well..









Not too bad of a haul?


----------



## RWE

On the eggbeater, do you have a logo? I brought one home that was similar and after cleaning it up, I saw Made in Japan on the arm. It was old, so I figured some hardware stores carried them from the 50's and 60's era. Hopefully you got a Millers Falls there. In any event, they are fun to operate.


----------



## bandit571

Eggbeater is a Stanley Defiance. Made in USA. last made about 1952.


----------



## bandit571

Chisel was sold by a George Worthington Co. of Cleveland, OH. One time, it was THE largest hardware store supplier in the country. At one time, there were 35,000 items in their catalog.


----------



## Bertha

No $hit, Bandit? Pre-digital, can you imagine the size of that catalog? Anyone know who the biggest is now? I still go to my local ACE, family run. It's pretty sad seeing these old timers belly up from amazon etc.


----------



## ToddJB

MSC just mailed me a physical catalog. It's easily 8 or 9 inches thick. A ridiculous waste of money for them.


----------



## Bertha

What does MSC make? I know there's MCLS or MLCS or something that recently changed to something else. If it's a scientific catalog, those are completely absurd. Color and quality paper. I can't even imagine the expense.


----------



## ToddJB

https://www.mscdirect.com/


----------



## Mosquito

I would think a McMaster-Carr catalog would be big, but not really a manufacturer as much as a distributor


----------



## Bertha

> https://www.mscdirect.com/
> 
> - ToddJB


In other words, everything.

I'm sure Grainger has got to be big. I've got one right down the street but I've never been in there. They know me by name at work, though. I've had a motor for my bandsaw sitting in my cart for 6 months.


----------



## bandit571

Used to have a 1943 Bostwick Braun catalog…...almost 1600 pages…..was a wholesaler to Hardware stores….

You'd walk into the store, IF they didn't have the item in stock, they drag out the "Big Book" order the item, and tell you when to come back for it.


----------



## DLK

Why do all these companies: Woodcraft, Lee Valley, Highland, MCS, penn state, cabells, insist on sending me catalogs. They all go straight into the bin.


----------



## WillliamMSP

> Why do all these companies: Woodcraft, Lee Valley, Highland, MCS, penn state, cabells, insist on sending me catalogs. They all go straight into the bin.
> 
> - Combo Prof


So I'm the only one to hide them under the mattress?


----------



## Bertha

Don, a buddy at work guilted me into recycling. I just throw them all in there and it makes me feel like a liberal when I take the overstuffed bin to the curb. I'm the Pelosi of flyer recycling, the flyer man, bicycle, cycler, uh, who am I.

My system is 1) screen the "new" products in Woodcraft, 2) look to see if LV has any new ugly planes, 3) look to see if HF has chipbrushes on sale (will commit to order, won't order, 4) Midway for .223 bulk deals, 5) Cabelas for same (never happens), 6) Tandy to see if half hides are on sale.

Rockler, PennState, Highland, etc. go straight in the bin.

I'll thumb through Japan Woodworker for a day or so. I'm always worried Wayne would be pissed if I didn't at least look at it.

I'd read a BC catalog. LN is at least small. Lee Valley wins easily for the coolest photographs. You put a router plane or plumb bob collection on the front, and I'll definitely not reflex-toss it. Lee Valley is my go-to for reasonable/upper reasonable hardware. Unexciting stuff. "Honey, this must be the hinges I've been waiting for! OMG look how nice they are! They're going to work perfect to open and close doors." That just doesn't happen.


----------



## DLK

I save HF for the coupons. But all the others,I just look at the online catalog.

(When I said straight into the bin, I did mean the recycle bin.)

If I didn't reflex-toss (even Lee Valley) I would be waist deep in catalogs.

What do you use the chip brushes for?

I await a good deal on a 12 or 16 speed floor drill press from HF.


----------



## bandit571

What's a catalog? Been a LONG time since any such thing has come here….


----------



## Bertha

Don, I use them for anything I'd use a real brush for. Put down some glue, test some stain, some paint, etc. The little filaments (who knows what they're made of) can push glue into tiny gaps. I stir epoxy with the stick end. I've cut one up before for a pen tube lol. The bristles fall off easily and will end up in your glue joint if you don't watch for them. I love the little bastards and HF has them for pennies on the dollar.

I saw a guy once put a wooden strut down the channel of a HF Al bar clamp. I bought a few but I haven't ripped down the sticks for them yet. It's such a simple mechanism that it should be fine for light duty and you can buy a pair of 60"'rs for $20, I think. The quality is what you'd expect.

On that note, I have a little trick to share. I make sure that junkyard clamps are in my project photos. Too long, mismatched, beat up, the worse the better. I tell my fiance that I get made fun of by other LJs because my clamps are so pitiful. How I'm embarrassed. Out of guilt, I get new clamps!


----------



## Bertha

Bandit, catalogs are paper things that you drain your weedeater oil into.


----------



## TheFridge

Or shop TP when you just can't make it because you're in the middle of a glue up and it's either sacrifice the glue up, or a use 5 gallon bucket the second you tighten the last clamp.


----------



## CO_Goose

They are both about 2" thick. periodically there is about a dozen or so of them dropped off where I work. The mail lady HATES them 



> I would think a McMaster-Carr catalog would be big, but not really a manufacturer as much as a distributor
> 
> - Mosquito





> I m sure Grainger has got to be big. I ve got one right down the street but I ve never been in there. They know me by name at work, though. I ve had a motor for my bandsaw sitting in my cart for 6 months.
> 
> - Bertha


----------



## Brit

Anyone ever seen one of these before or know what it was used for. I've got an idea, but would like to hear what you guys think.


----------



## Bertha

poor man's mini froe?


----------



## TheFridge

Scratch that itch that you can never reach. Or more like sever the nerve endings so you never feel it again.


----------



## bandit571

Shingle maker's chisel?


----------



## Bertha

Sex robot elbow?


----------



## Brit

I was thinking it was for chopping a lock mortise inside chest of drawers or something.


----------



## TheFridge

Wow. We were way off.


----------



## theoldfart

That's awfully wide for a lock mortise Andy. It does seem to be constructed to be hit like a lock mortise but maybe some other type of mortise.


----------



## Brit

It is Kev, but it was obviously made for use in a restricted space and I can't think what else it could be for really. I could be way off though.


----------



## Brit

Does anyone know if Uri Geller is missing a chisel?


----------



## theoldfart

If he is he's getting pretty damn good, chisels are much tougher than spoons!


----------



## Brit

That thing has got me beat Kev. It could be for chiseling in an internal corner.


----------



## theoldfart

Your exactly right that it has to be a hard to reach spot. Maybe a special user modification? Does it look 'homemade"?


----------



## TheFridge

It does look homemadeish.


----------



## chrisstef

Kinda looks like a cut and weld there just south of the 90*. Could be my eyes but it looks like a socket got married to some square stock and welded to an old screwdriver. Color of steel looks a lil shiner towards the bend.


----------



## woodcox

Possible it was for construction purposes like in between joists. I've made some funky long reach wrenches in my time.


----------



## bandit571

The Japanese have a "Spear Point " chisel…...maybe Andy's is used like that. Sweeping, strokes. Not meant to be hammered, but pushed along, bevel down? Like removing bark?


----------



## MikeB_UK

I think that chisel belongs in the "I'm a man I can fix it" thread. 

I'm guessing a home-made seam buster
http://btbtools.com/index.php/body-shop-tools/seam-buster-chisels/20016.html


----------



## Bertha

Mike might have it. Are there beat marks on one side of the right angle?


----------



## Brit

I did see that seam buster chisel Mike. It could have a similar function except in wood rather than metal, something like breaking open packing cases perhaps. I thought the split in the handle might be an indication that the chisel was used as a lever. I think we'll have to put it in the 'We'll never know for sure pile'.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I rescued an old Robt Sorby 36mm straight side chisel for 50¢. Not sure if it is to be called a Firmer or? I can tell from my efforts to sharpen it, it has good steel. I did a crappy job making a new handle but, it works. I'm sure my lathe hates me. : (


----------



## bandit571

Two recent rehabs to gander at..









Edge sharpened up..








Mushroomed top cleaned up, and repainted….Crescent Tool Co. of Jamestown N.Y. No. 175, 1-1/4" wide.










Defiance by Stanley, 1-1/2" wide. Mushroom removed, new handle fitted..









More of a paring type of chisel…now.


----------



## BlasterStumps

They look nice Bandit. Nice work. I like the all steel type. Every once in a while it can be quite handy. I keep a Dasco 466, 1" for those rare occasions when I need to give the chop some extra welly. 
Mike


----------



## RWE

Bandit:

I have been in chisel mode the last several weeks. I just saw where you said that you removed the mushroom. It never occurred to me to do that. I have an old Sampson, Union Tools (1 inch wide, I would call it a firmer, 90 degree sides, fairly thick) that I just fitted a new white oak handle to. If I can get the handle back out, I may grind off the mushroom. I never really thought much about "why the mushroom" and you see them a lot, but I guess folks just hammered them with metal hammers once the handles busted?


----------



## bandit571

Have to watch out, sometimes…when I drilled the wooden "plug" out, found the mushroom had also flared over the opening….Had to remove that, as well. Just an old drill bit, wiggled around in the plug, and then the flared part, until the inside of the socket was clean. Then just toss the bit away…

Had one old chisel, that had a double mushroom…..first one had broken off, and became a ring, that the second mushroom kept from falling off,,









The before…ugly, ain't he? And..









The after. I was using this when I was building that Pine bedframe…









Used as a slick


----------



## CyberDyneSystems

> Bandit, catalogs are paper things that you drain your weedeater oil into.
> 
> - Bertha


You guys don't read your catalogs?
So what do you do with that white porcelain thrown in the little room upstairs?


----------



## CyberDyneSystems

> Have to watch out, sometimes…when I drilled the wooden "plug" out, found the mushroom had also flared over the opening….Had to remove that, as well. Just an old drill bit, wiggled around in the plug, and then the flared part, until the inside of the socket was clean. Then just toss the bit away…
> 
> Had one old chisel, that had a double mushroom…..first one had broken off, and became a ring, that the second mushroom kept from falling off,,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The before…ugly, ain t he? And..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The after. I was using this when I was building that Pine bedframe…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Used as a slick
> 
> - bandit571


Brought back from the brink. Pretty impressive putting the time into what looked like a lost cause. well done.


----------



## Brit

Just scored this set of Mawhood firmer chisels. Seller's pics.


----------



## theoldfart

Flat sided, no bevel? I haven't seen this type before.


----------



## Brit

Really Kev! Quite a lot of manufacturers made them back in the day. They were popular with carpenters who could use them for mortising tasks as well as general joinery tasks without having to carry around seperate mortising chisels. The right-angled sides make them stronger when levering and make them less likely to twist when chopping. Obviously they are no good for dovetails though.


----------



## theoldfart

I do have mortise chisels with mostly flat sides along with a few wide slick type chisels also with flat sides. I'm accustomed to bevel edge bench chisels. What your saying does make sense for a one-set joiner. Thanks.


----------



## Bertha

Cyber, I'm guilty of trimming off the flare. I was going to say, 'taking a little off the mushroom' but I'd worry the modern politics police would come after me for a circumcision reference. Of late, I've been just hacking off a blade behind the pitting and setting a new bevel. I've got a grinder with a…like…20 grit disc. I touch it down on the Tormek to wipe the guts off, then flatten out the concavity on stones. Cutting off a blade used to make me nauseous, but I've got a whole box of chisels that will live there forever if I don't.

Fart, some of the old Butchers and Bartons are of that format. I used to pretend like I preferred that design (I had some kind of reason), but I like extreme lateral bevels now. I like that big bulbous hilt and I've got some French ones similar. Some Swans are also super beefy at the handles. I've got a bunch of new chisels I need to post here.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…just chisels..









Nothing fancy..


----------



## Bertha

There's some interesting ones there. I don't prefer sockets but the 2 on the left peak my interest. The 3 on the right are also quite handsome. Hard for me to find a chisel I don't like.


----------



## chrisstef

Chisel guys … https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/303731

Al.


----------



## Bertha

Indeed. I wonder what the hell. I'd like to see larger photos of its dimensions. I'd say home-modified but a helluva job and helluva weird. Note that I responded long, fat, and beefy without invoking your name.


----------



## bandit571

Been too busy using mine…


----------



## bandit571

A crescent brand chisel…









And…









Solid steel chisel…NOT a cold chisel.









I'd have to go to the shop, and see what width it is….thinking either 3/4" or 1"....

Just checked No. 175 1-1/4" Made in Jamestown, NY.

Even has a slight bevel to the edges…not a Firmer Chisel….


----------



## bandit571

In use , today…..









One of these even has an "Arrow" logo…...( 2nd from the right..)

They had work to do..









One corner done, three to go..


----------



## BlasterStumps

Tried to save another one. 1/4" wide, looks something like a mortising chisel but don't really know what it is. When I saw 50 Cents on the price tag, I couldn't leave it on the shelf in the thrift store. The socket had been mushroomed so I took the advice of someone online here on the forums and smithed it back to a good shape again. Once I had a handle that fit, I sharpened the cutting edge front and back and made it into a little clean up chisel. Not the best looker but sharp as all get out. No brand name on it anywhere so don't think it is anything special as far as the maker goes.

Why the heck do people pound on handle-less socket chisels with metal hammers?


----------



## RWE

Just posted on Hand Braces. Came home today with a box of bits and miscellaneous items. Two Shapeleigh (sp) chisels, 3 unknowns. Will clean them up. I was hoping someone could help with this mortise chisel. I cannot make out the trademark/logo.










Seems that there is a circular logo that starts with what looks like an F and ends in CC
Also seems to show No. 1 FX underneath the curved logo letters
The CC could be a C and an O for Co.??
Only thing I can think of is FULTON CO. with the "ulton" wiped out. The problem is that the second C seems distinct, so I think it ends in CC










The two inch on the left of the group is a Shapleigh and so is the second. The others are not marked, as far as I can determine so far.










Anyone who knows that logo, help!!!


----------



## RWE

Identified three of the chisels as shown in previous post:

Two PS&W chisels. The mortising chisel has the logo as shown below (from Ebay) but it was hard to read on mine.

















The first chisel from the left has a PS&W circular logo on the socket. 









The blade has a hardware store stamp. For an Alabama guy, it was pretty exciting "Kimberly - Thomas Hardware Company with Alabama in the middle)








The two inch wide chisel is a Shapleigh Hardware chisel.

The gouge (1.25 wide) is unmarked.

Excited to have the PS&W chisels. I have seen some comments that they were highly regarded as far as their quality.

*Anyone have an idea of the timeframe for the chisel with the Ebay picture logo.* I assume it was early in the company's existence since the word Pexto was adopted later.

Somewhere in my collection of items I have a Sampson brand item. I learned that Sampson was a PS&W trademark.


----------



## Bertha

Those are great chisels. I have quite a few but, in fairness, I can't recall an opinion. I really like the stamp on the first image. It's definitely early but a date? I wouldn't have a clue. I'm excited you posted these! I've got so many in my "to be restored" bin that this will motivate me.

Unrelated, but I found a pristine Witherby draw knife the other day.


----------



## RWE

I found the same mark on the gouge, P. S. & W as well. I got the mortising (1/4 inch) chisel ready. Put a leather ring on the tip of the handle and sharpened it. Working through the others. I inspected my previous chisel collection and two were Sampson brand, so they were made by P. S. & W as well.

I picked up a small Witherby draw knife a few years back. Post a picture sometime and I will do the same.


----------



## Bertha

Here's one you don't see every day. Found this one in Richmond, while I can still go there.




























It was rough. tang all chewed up, and pitted. Handle is ebony.

I found this:

Tony Seo's citation of an 1818 Birmingham listing is, likely,
related to the firm which made this chisel:

"Hunt William & Sons, Brades Steel Co.'s Warehouse, Colmore Row"

My information on this firm, and its products, is still very
sketchy, but I believe it was in fairly continuous operation
until, at least, 1915 (latest directory I have available).

As far as I've been able to determine, the company was listed as
being coal and iron masters, as well as steel manufacturers/
refiners, in the "Brades," Oldbury, as early as 1828. Regarding
edge tool manufacturing, the earliest listing I've found is for
1835:

"Hunt William and Sons, scythe, hay and straw knives, and
general mechanical and edge tool &c. manufacturers, Brades
Steel Works [Oldbury]."

I agree with Bugbear that most of their input was, likely, 
"heavy" edge tools, similar to other firms such as Gilpin and 
Whitehouse. But, enough "light" edge tools have survived to
confirm that they made them as well.

By 1830, their Birmingham warehouse had moved to (52) Ann
Street, where it remained until, at least, 1875. The firm
became a Limited company by 1892, and their Birmingham 
warehouse was being listed at 7 Whittall Street - where it
remained as late as 1914.

>From 1896 on, the company was listed as:

"Hunt William & Sons, The Brades Ltd., Brades Works"


----------



## Bertha

Lol. Looking at pic. That's not surface ground with a big ramp. Some weird camera trick. I took a lot off on diamonds, but I wasn't carving a spoon.


----------



## bandit571

Just for …..









Butcher in front, Buck Brother in the middle…40 yr old Harbor Freight in back…









Harbor Freight was a 1/4" wide chisel….has been reshaped a bit…









And, I think a Mr. Witherby stopped by to lend a hand….


----------



## PBWilson1970

Wow! There are some nice tools resurrected from the past in this thread. Here are mine, mostly found with horribly abused handles. I'm in the process of rehandling them all with some Black Locust from a firewood pile left on the property when we bought our house. The stuff is tough, rot-resistant and should work well for another generation or two.



From left to right:
1 1/4" Witherby
2" Charles Buck
3/4" Witherby firmer
1" Fulton
1 1/2" Robert Duke
1" Stanley
3/4" Pexto
3/4" no-name Made in the USA
1/2" Swan


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Quite the resurrection, Al. You do a great job with those copper ferrules.


----------



## Bertha

Thanks, Smit. I was digging through my 'plumbing bin" and said hey, I wouldn't have to cut that fitting, lol. Bit long. 
Have you checked out the Aurio carving chisels? They have a fishtail for half blinds and it is reaaaally nice. I wish they would come out with bench chisels. I'm still using tried and true Iles, having added the rounded dovetail ones, as needed.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Have you checked out the Aurio carving chisels? They have a fishtail for half blinds and it is reaaaally nice…
> 
> - Bertha


I will now. ;-)


----------



## DanKrager

I've decided that a nice long cranked 3/8" paring chisel would round out my hand tool selection. Where can I quench this thirst?

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, check out vintage Bucks. I have a set, they take a good edge. Josh at Hyperkitten has them occasionally as does Jim Bode though Bode can be expensive.


----------



## Phil32

Let's understand the difference between chisels and hand carving tools. Woodworking chisels are normally beveled on the upper side - the side away from the wood. Carving "chisels" are beveled on the side toward the wood, and are normally referred to as gouges. The only carving gouges that are beveled on the top side are dogleg gouges. You will have trouble cutting mortises or dovetails with a carving gouge. Likewise, you will have trouble carving reliefs with a bench chisel.


----------



## bandit571

Inchannel..or OutChannel?


----------



## garethmontreal

This is what 250 (300+) dollars worth of chisels looks like. A couple years ago I got to try a co-workers brand new lie Nielsen chisels and needless to say they were far better then my Irwin chisels. But then I tried my other friends mixed set (buck bros, marples, and the like) of old pairing chisels and was shocked that they were better then even the lie Nielsen's. I asked my friend where he got them and said eBay, garage sales and family. Basically if they aren't completely pitted by rust you canakd them usable. So for less the a new set of 5 lie Nielsen's I got this










And about 8 carving gouges 
And another dozen chisels.


----------



## garethmontreal

Good thing I saved up to buy a new diamond plate. Some of the chisels are junk but some are amazing like this 1/8 mortise chisel by Phillip law of Sheffield which is from the late 18th or very early 19th century










Or my personal favorite 1 1/2" buck brothers socket pairing chisel.


----------



## garethmontreal

I have a huge amount of work ahead of me but I'm looking forward to it.


----------



## bandit571

Been trying to get a few of mine cleaned up…









And…









Along with a few "turnscrews"...


----------



## tvrgeek

Well I like my yellow handle Marples, bench and tenon. Good thing as that is all I have. Well, I have an older set of Freud carving chisels that I have never been able to get sharp. Steel just does not seem good. I should off them and get advice on decent ones.


----------



## garethmontreal

Honestly any of the cast steel era chisels are quality steel. check out paul sellers for advice or https://woodandshop.com/woodworking-hand-tool-buying-guide-chisels/

The best stuff i got was from big job lots on ebay. As long as you are ok with cleaning and sharpening its crazy what u can get.

i paid 20 canadian on ebay for these gouges










1 1/4" is the biggest 1/4" is the smallest mostly Buck Bros some marples and german ones. 
i just need to learn how sharpen gouges properly.


----------



## garethmontreal

Those are some tasty Socket chisels the witherbeys are fantastic chisels. i have 3. a 3/8th pairing chisel, 1/4 mortise chisel and splurged and spent 40 bucks on 1 3/4" framing chisel thats 9" long and weighs over a pound and sharp enough to shave my thumbnail. I dont when ill need it but ive already used to make wood shavings.


----------



## Redoak49

I read these threads and have a question. Why is older steel so often mentioned as being better than new steel? I spent many years making steel and designing the practices to make steel as a metallurgical engineer. We made steel for several tool mfg.

What I know is that the control of the chemistry of the steel is much better now. The internal cleanliness is also better. The only thing that I can think of is the steel grades. In general, many of the older tools were made from simpler grades such as 1090 or 1060. These are higher carbon steel steels with low alloy levels. It is repeatedly mentioned that these steels seem to get sharper. Heating treating is simp!e.

One thing I will note is that some of the newer alloy steels are much more difficult to heat treat. A2 is an example and requires careful heat treating and can be subject to poor properties if done wrong.


----------



## tvrgeek

I agree with what Redoak49 is saying about the modern process. But, that does not change what low cost steel was specified, or what some Chinese or Indian shop substituted after initial approval.

I am sure my skill in sharpening is lacking, but a couple have strait edges and can be sharpened like my bench chisels. They still don't cut. Now I have a WorkSharp, I attempted to do the larger gouge. Looks perfect. Won't cut.


----------



## tvrgeek

Woodandshop is quite a link. THanks.


----------



## tvrgeek

Looks like decent modern gouges run in the $35 to $55 range each. I should get a couple to see the difference. I am sure I sis not pay anywhere near that each for the set I have.


----------



## garethmontreal

i think it has something to do with steel alloys and the transition from cast steel to stainless steel. For instance it is impossible to sharpen the teeth of modern hand saws. You would know the science better then me but im pretty sure it is as you said and has to carbon content and alloy vs non alloy. I know that the highest grade of steel used by british saw makers in the 1800s was Spring Steel which is high carbon low alloy whereas Stainless Steel is an alloy with chromium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_steel


----------



## garethmontreal

happy to share Woodandshop ill be honest i dont know much about carving chisel quality but i have read positive reviews regarding modern two cherries when it comes to quality vs cost.


----------



## Redoak49

I do not think chisels are generally made with stainless steel. Just not a good application for stainless and expensive.


----------



## tvrgeek

I remember back when Joel ran the woodworking aisle at McGuckins Hardware, he stocked Henry Taylor and 2-Cherries. His advice never led me wrong. ( mid to late 70's) As that correlated to the above link, a safe place to start. I have been happy with my Marples chisels, but they are "just right", so a place to put a marker. If better, I probably can't afford them. If worse, I would not want them.

I believe some modern saws can't be sharpened because the teeth are induction hardened. Even if you could, labor is more than a modern saw costs. If one of the few remaining quality double ground saws, that's a different equation.


----------



## garethmontreal

I definitely agree with you on the saws im going try setting and sharpening some old hand saws myself for the first time im excited and a bit nervous (ill start with the warranted superior ones first). I know what you mean about "If better, I probably can't afford them. If worse, I would not want them." Id add that not only can i not afford them i couldnt justify spending 100 bucks per new chisel no matter how good. I got a dewalt mitre saw for less then a set of 5 lie nielsen chisels. I can restore hand tools i cant restore power tools.


----------



## garethmontreal

I definitely agree with you on the saws im going try setting and sharpening some old hand saws myself for the first time im excited and a bit nervous (ill start with the warranted superior ones first). I know what you mean about "If better, I probably can't afford them. If worse, I would not want them." Id add that not only can i not afford them i couldnt justify spending 100 bucks per new chisel no matter how good. I got a dewalt mitre saw for less then a set of 5 lie nielsen chisels. I can restore hand tools i cant restore power tools.


----------



## garethmontreal

https://www.steelexpress.co.uk/toolsteel/A2-Steel-properties.html

A2 tool steel has 5% chromium as opposed to stainless 11% chromium spring steel close to 0%. I agree with you that its a bad application for the steel. It mite cheaper then using spring steel. Making spring steel is very labour intensive as its base is crucible steel in which you add carbon to the steel. You have to do smaller batches to ensure uniformity of carbon.


----------



## bandit571

And Henry Disston was the master at saw steels….

I have two sets of chisels from Aldi's, bought several years apart….still going good. Have a set of Narex Mortise chisels….still going great. "Oldies"? Witherby, EC Jennings, Butcher, old Buck Brothers…..I have a pair from the Brit. Zone of Germany…..trash. They bend with a sneeze.

have to be careful when setting teeth on the older, vintage saws…teeth might be a bit brittle…and just snap off.

I think I have enough chisels….for now…


----------



## Redoak49

Making spring steels is not all that difficult. I have made 1060-1090, 5160, 9250 and others. Our operation made it about 110 tons at a time and made 6-10 years in an 8 hour shift.

Adding alloys and carbon is not difficult and you just need to stir the 110 tons which is around 2875 F pretty hard. We used a porous refractory plug in the bottom of a ladle and ran Argon through it. The bubbling stirred things up quite well.


----------



## garethmontreal

Redoak49 I think this is where i gracefully bow out of speculation regarding Steel manufacturing. You clearly know far more about then I do i. I think id get a lot more out of your thoughts on the subject it rather then mine.


----------



## garethmontreal

Thanks for the advice bandit. I am definitely a bit warry of damaging the older ones. I got an old saw vice and i figure ill start slow on the ones that are the least interesting and take it from there.


----------



## shampeon

Price point is the big unspoken X factor here. You can buy vintage chisels on eBay for relatively cheap compared to a new Blue Spruce, Lie Nielsen, or Veritas one. The quality of steel on an vintage Buck Brothers (to pick a popular old mark at random) that cost you $9 or $10 on eBay will be vastly better than a big box store $10 chisel.

I have no doubt that a premium new chisel that costs $60-100 will have better metallurgy than that Buck Bros. chisel. If I had no budgetary constraints and was starting out fresh, I would pick up a full set of PMV-11 Vertas chisels, probably. But a decent vintage chisel is still really good, and all it takes is an hour of your time to clean it up, flatten the back, and regrind the bevel.


----------



## garethmontreal

Your probably right regarding veritas chisels but man 675 Canadian a set yikes. Love that when i looked up sharpening them someone posted saying they use a "36 grit high speed grinding wheel" to start. Wow if they arent pretty wrecked after that they must have better metallurgy then vintage buck bros.


----------



## Foghorn

I have a lot of Veritas stuff but have an issue with their PM chisels being of the tang style for the price. I'm mostly a socket chisel fan. Having said that, I do have quite a few old boxwood handled Marples that I really like. I also have a couple of the Lee Nielsen chisels that are nice but too pricey as well. I have more or less, complete sets of the old Stanley 750 chisels that are my favourites. From what I understand, they were around 3% vanadium. When that was reduced, they went to having the Stanley name marked on top of the blade and did not have the 750 markings on the socket any longer. It was in keeping with their steel formula changing and has a huge effect on pricing for those who choose to collect them. I haven't done the multiple chop comparisons between chisels, but I'm very happy with my new Stanley 750 Sweethearts as second fiddle to my old 750 and 720 users. Something about that steel.


----------



## garethmontreal

I have not tried the vintage Stanley 750s but I've heard they are some of the best chisels around. Unfortunately I think everyone else heard that as well hence the price I usually see them for sale at prices more then doubled new Veritas chisels which is way out of my price range.
I haven't tried the new 750s either because the quality of the newer Stanley tools I have used is generally terrible. I didn't actually know they used to make good tools for a long time. I have a couple of early Stanley everlasting chisels which I like. Very heavy (the opposite of 750s and most socket pairing chisels in general I'm guessing) very solid sharpen up nicely. I keep hoping a 750 will appear in my pile of chisels but no luck so far. Do you find the difference between the new 750s and the old 750s is drastically different? Or is that my hype then fact?


----------



## garethmontreal

Speaking of the pile of chisels dies any recognize this chisel design? I cannot find it in the usual reference stuff and looking at endless chisels online trying to spot it is driving me nuts. It is 1/4 bevel chisel until the last 3/4" of the tip when it becomes a 1/8" straight mortice. I'm assuming it's some kind of mortice chisel but that's all I've got.


----------



## Foghorn

> I have not tried the vintage Stanley 750s but I ve heard they are some of the best chisels around. Unfortunately I think everyone else heard that as well hence the price I usually see them for sale at prices more then doubled new Veritas chisels which is way out of my price range.
> I haven t tried the new 750s either because the quality of the newer Stanley tools I have used is generally terrible. I didn t actually know they used to make good tools for a long time. I have a couple of early Stanley everlasting chisels which I like. Very heavy (the opposite of 750s and most socket pairing chisels in general I m guessing) very solid sharpen up nicely. I keep hoping a 750 will appear in my pile of chisels but no luck so far. Do you find the difference between the new 750s and the old 750s is drastically different? Or is that my hype then fact?
> 
> - garethmontreal


I started buying the old 750s more than 15 years ago when they were still a bargain. The steel and edge holding is fantastic in my experience. The new ones are great as well but much thinner blades and lighter overall. Still seem like great chisels as they have progressed from the long period of cheap tools from the 70s or so onward and have gotten back to a semblance of quality with their chisels and planes. Not back to their golden age of being more or less the standard, but going in the right direction.


----------



## garethmontreal

Im going to stop hijacking this forum and start a chisel restoration blog sorry if i was spamming the thread.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Not a hijack, but to the contrary. Good discussion.

I have a decent set of the old tyme Everlastings, as well as the 8 Piece Sweetheart reissues. Each style has merits of their own, and both are (imho) quality tools. I've passed up some legacy 750s in the past, to avoid that bug bite.


----------



## bandit571

Random photos of my "collection of users" 

















And, some of the larger users…(all freshly sharpened..)


----------



## rad457

I have a set of 720's that are very nice but get used very seldom, did get a 1/8" 750 which I paid dearly for
Went from full set of Narex's to a set of new 750 Sweet hearts mainly because the SW are easier to handle for small D.T.s, now 90% of the time I use the Japanese D.T. chisel I purchased from Lee Valley. There is also a set of Baileys in the leather roll somewhere in the shop with a few more odds an end chisels.
Along this sordid path I have managed to acquire quite a few odds and ends chisels that haunt me but none so much as a complete set of 2 Cherries that some how managed to get for free on a Visit to Lubeck Germany many years ago.
Funny how on my bench there are a 1/2" and a 3/4" chisel German and a 1/4" Swedish that never get put away?
For some reason have stuck to only the Narex Mortise chisel's but long for that sexy English Pig sticker? I know that it is only a matter of time before 1 then maybe more find there way to my shop. 
But at he moment a couple of Millers Falls planes have appeared?


----------



## bandit571

> Speaking of the pile of chisels dies any recognize this chisel design? I cannot find it in the usual reference stuff and looking at endless chisels online trying to spot it is driving me nuts. It is 1/4 bevel chisel until the last 3/4" of the tip when it becomes a 1/8" straight mortice. I m assuming it s some kind of mortice chisel but that s all I ve got.
> 
> - garethmontreal


Either the tang was broken off…or someone made a chisel out of a Plough planes 1/4" cutter….


----------



## garethmontreal

Either the tang was broken off…or someone made a chisel out of a Plough planes 1/4" cutter….

Sorry posted the a picture from a bad angle thats the bottom of the chisel here it is from the top









at first i thought it was just a broken rehabbed chisel but now im thinking it was made this way originally given the angles. Also i started rehabbing my pile of chisels last night (all night) and started the blog if anyone is interested.

- bandit571
[/QUOTE]


----------



## bandit571

There seems to be something about a "Kerf Chisel" as THE best tool when doing dovetails by hand…..mainly the half blind ones. So…I looked through my stash of stuff….would you believe it…









This 1-1/4" wide stiff knife is just the same as a Kerf Chisel…









made in USA….Red Devil, of Union N.J…..No. 4101….









Steel blade does NOT flex, is about as thick as most dovetail saw's kerfs…there be brass rivets….and the wood handle looks like either walnut, or rosewood….and no hanger hole. What's not to like?

test run into Pine end grain…worked great! did not split the wood…was able to drive it straight down…with a hammer. YMMV….might be a keeper?


----------



## shampeon

That's pretty cool, Bandit.


----------



## RWE

Bandit:

Years ago, I took a Gent's saw and filed the teeth off (it was not a "good" gent's saw, so no big loss). I use it for a "kerf saw". I had picked up the idea from some internet guru. You can hammer on the saw back so it does not damage your mallet. I am in the middle of another run at achieving some degree of facility with hand cut dovetails, so I expect to utilize it again soon. -I have made two "shop" boxes in pine and am now finishing up Paul Sellers "desktop organizer" box. I plan to make several for the practice.

Your Red Devil looks like it would work fine. Find an old backsaw or gent's saw and splice a section of the saw back on one side and you can go to town with a wooden mallet.


----------



## Foghorn

> I have not tried the vintage Stanley 750s but I ve heard they are some of the best chisels around. Unfortunately I think everyone else heard that as well hence the price I usually see them for sale at prices more then doubled new Veritas chisels which is way out of my price range.
> I haven t tried the new 750s either because the quality of the newer Stanley tools I have used is generally terrible. I didn t actually know they used to make good tools for a long time. I have a couple of early Stanley everlasting chisels which I like. Very heavy (the opposite of 750s and most socket pairing chisels in general I m guessing) very solid sharpen up nicely. I keep hoping a 750 will appear in my pile of chisels but no luck so far. Do you find the difference between the new 750s and the old 750s is drastically different? Or is that my hype then fact?
> 
> - garethmontreal


The old ones are of a little heavier design (thicker blades) and hold an edge very well. The old and the new are both very well balanced. I haven't used my new ones enough yet to form a long term opinion, but for the little I've used them, I'm very pleased. They feel great in the hand if somewhat lighter. Took me about 5 minutes per chisel to flatten and hone.

One detail I haven't been able to get a handle on (no pun intended) is the variation on the old handle and socket sizes. Even on the ones that carry the 750 markings, the socket sizes can be either large or smaller. The handle lengths vary as a result from the shorter ones to the longer ones. I have multiples of some sizes that carry identical markings but have different socket sizes. I'll figure it out some day. Still missing a 2" and a 1/8" 750 and one or two sizes in the 720.


----------



## bandit571

Paul Sellers Desktop Organizer ….in Ash…









and









and..









With a few "refinements" of my own…

Was the basis for another fancy box…









Merely made one with 2 drawers..


----------



## RWE

I like the double drawer version. My daughter has requested a desktop/table top easel with drawers for paints. I am getting my chops down for that.

I am down to completing the drawer on one made of some sort of Mahogany









.


----------



## theoldfart

I just bought a pair of in vintage cannel crank neck gouges by Buck Bros, 5/8" and 1 1/2". These should compliment my crank neck chisels. Getting to like the vintage Bucks. Pics when they arrive.


----------



## bandit571

Have a selection of seldom used, wood handled chisels ( but nice to have when needed) that will get stored in the new Tool Cabinet. Question is…what is the best way to stash them by hanging on a door?









Like the inside of this one. May get a photo of the chisel group, later today….

Film @2300 hrs….I hope..


----------



## Phil32

> Speaking of the pile of chisels dies any recognize this chisel design? I cannot find it in the usual reference stuff and looking at endless chisels online trying to spot it is driving me nuts. It is 1/4 bevel chisel until the last 3/4" of the tip when it becomes a 1/8" straight mortice. I m assuming it s some kind of mortice chisel but that s all I ve got.
> 
> - garethmontreal


Woodcarvers run into this situation a lot - we need to get into a tight place to remove wood. This has led to gouges that go from 2mm to 60mm wide, and shapes of long bent, spoon bent, dogleg, macaroni, staehli, fluteroni, etc. shapes. Someone needed to cut a narrow slot and, lacking a plough plane, made his own solution.


----------



## bandit571

Ok…about..90% of my chisels on display..









Another view?









And that til in the back…would rather it be more of a "Ready Rack" for ones I am using on a project….rather than filling up the tool well, or sharing a slot in the rack…..maybe hang most on the inside of the cabinet door, somehow.

Once this hand heals up…I'll see what I can do. I do have a "collection" of the old, plastic handled chisels….stashed in a drawer under the bench….

I didn't know that EC Jennings made and sold chisels….but, I seemed to have one in that drawer….1-1/2" Tanged" with an oval bolster…..May get a photo of that, IF anyone wants….


----------



## RWE

I would like to see the Jennings chisel. Shoot a picture when you have time.

I may have a half or a third of what you have and I have a box full of "beater" chisels with the plastic like handles (I forget the term for that material). I use a Veritas jig for the chisel sharpening and diamond plates. Three levels of buffing on a lathe hosted set of buffing wheels. My sharpening has gotten better over the years.

Looks like a nice collection there Bandit.


----------



## bandit571

Just measured the width…right at 1-1/4"...









Found at a yard sale a few years back…not the OEM handle…









Logo has an "arrow", about like the Amtrak arrow…E.C. Jennings above it…Made in USA below it. Bolster is an Octagon….not an oval….Handle has a metal ferrel like a screwdrivers…May just go back in the "extras" drawer..


----------



## bandit571

So….wooden rack. or a magnetic strip? handles go up? Handles go down"


----------



## waho6o9

Wooden rack handles on top.


----------



## DanKrager

*Bandit* that's quite a collection of chisels. Addressing your question, both methods have their advantages and drawbacks. Magnets let loose when jarred especially when one end breaks loose first. Two or more rows of strong magnets would cure that. Magnets are harder than the chisel blade, so marking will occur. Continuous storage on a magnet tends to magnetize the blade which is something you might not notice until sharpening. A rack is more difficult to get the tools in and out = kinda fussy but it tends to hold securely without damage. A compartmentalized rack is hard to modify if a new chisel arrives or sizes need to shift one way or another. If the rack is more open, then the chisels will lean whichever way the wind is blowing and just look messy.

Other possibilities include a tool roll which would be even more awkward if rolled. If hung flat maybe not so bad. But like a compartmented rack, it limits flexibility of location.

There is also the possibility of spring clips that snap around the ferrule. Quick to rearrange and quick to store and retrieve. Wear damage is possible. Could be pricey.

What if each chisel had its own sheath, cloth, leather, even wooden that was hung or screwed to the back plane. Rearranging would take a while, but could be easily done. A wooden sheath has the possibility of being mounted on the door on a cleat rack (something more secure than a French cleat), removed entoto from the door and set on a similar cleat rack at the back of bench. You could even have a "favorite" rack that moves several sheathed chisels from door to bench and back. If size is clearly marked on the sheath, you don't have to poke and hope for the size you need. I've given this some favorable thought for my own two sets, which now reside in compartmentalized drawers.

Good luck.
DanK


----------



## bandit571

May do a 3 strip approach….Thin strip of pine, a series of thin (blade thickness) blocks, and a strip over the "front" of the blocks. Drill a few pilot hole through all three….attach to the door. Then, another thin strip about half way down the blades lengths ( averaged out..some may get another one lower) to stop things from swinging. Could always add small keepers (nail and glued) between the blades…

Would set this so the longest is either in the bench's rack, or almost to the bottom of the door….That way I can lift a chisel straight up, and out. Those two HUGE mortice chisels ( 1 from Japan, other a Buck Brothers) may either get their own space…or go to the bench's rack….but, not that often they are called for use…12mm and 3/8" are a bit big for what I do for a Mortise…

Most of the rest of these chisels are from 1" on down…inside of the doors are 16-7/8" wide…hmmmm…


----------



## waho6o9

A French cleat with some Lee Valleys at work bench height keeps me organized.


----------



## DanKrager

*Bandit*, here's what I had in mind ultimately. Finally got around to drawing it.










The little rack shown would hold project chisels in use and I'm suggesting stand at the rear of your bench with legs in the existing chisel holes. To put them away, the whole rack goes into a similar set of rails to latch into position.

DanK


----------



## bandit571

Rack for the "Extra" chisels….thicker strip, and some spacers…









Cut a boat load of little blocks ( still have enough for another rack..) then a thin "keeper" gets glued on top/front.









And a few clamps. Let sit until tomorrow, and pre-drill a few pilot holes…and counter sink them.. 3 should be enough? Once this is installed, a strip for behind the blades will get added….things won't rattle so much…


----------



## rad457

What I did for my Sweet Hearts, rack that hangs on french cleat, other side just hangers glued in


----------



## Foghorn

> What I did for my Sweet Hearts, rack that hangs on french cleat, other side just hangers glued in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Andre


That 1/8" 750 looks like junk. I'll take it off your hands so you don't have to look at it anymore! Ha!


----------



## bandit571

Rack came out of the clamps, this morning….will clean it up, and drill for the mounting screws….

Will be working on Door #2 this afternoon….need to go out and buy some hinges, hang the doors, then see about hanging the rack of chisels, and 2 saws….


----------



## Phil32

Woodcarvers have a similar situation in tool accessibility. The chisels (which we call "gouges") are specialized. Some shapes are used very rarely. So what do you do with 50+ gouges when you only use six on a current project?

In the photo below, the large box has slots for individual gouges, half of them in a lift-out tray. The beechwood box was sold by Pfeil as part of their Brienz Collection. By removing the mallet I added space for eight more gouges. The smaller box is what I use for day-to-day access. It contains 20+ tools, including a couple of knives, slipstone, etc.

Note that these assume you will pick up the tool by the shank near the handle.


----------



## bandit571

For hanging on the inside of a door….
Out of the clamps, needed cleaned up..









Needed one good edge, to place against the fence on the Mitre Box…and trim the ends square..









Didn't take off all that much…pilot holes, after the other 3 sides were planed smooth..









Flip over, and do a shallow counter bore…









Champfer all corners, with a block plane…









Test drive ..









Will hold 7 chisels. May spin a countersink bit in the square holes, so the chisels will sit better…


----------



## Foghorn

> For hanging on the inside of a door….
> Out of the clamps, needed cleaned up..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Needed one good edge, to place against the fence on the Mitre Box…and trim the ends square..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn t take off all that much…pilot holes, after the other 3 sides were planed smooth..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flip over, and do a shallow counter bore…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Champfer all corners, with a block plane…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test drive ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will hold 7 chisels. May spin a countersink bit in the square holes, so the chisels will sit better…
> 
> - bandit571


Looks like you have your solution and it should work well.


----------



## Bertha

Man, I need to post some chisels. I've been on a Preston tear and playing with the new Aurios. Man, I love chisels.


----------



## theoldfart

I just got two crank neck gouges, 5/8" and 1 1/2". Both are in cannel.

A family of Buck Bros. crank necks


----------



## bandit571

Chisel rack has been installed…









They have "company" in that door..


----------



## Wintergreen78

Everybody's making chisel racks! I fell on my bike a few weeks ago and landed hard on my ribs. I was too sore to do much, but was going stir crazy and needed a small simple project. So I made a new rack for my bench. I had added a couple of chisels so my last one didn't have a spot for all of them. Of course now I'm thinking about getting a 1/8" chisel for all those little fiddly jobs…


----------



## theoldfart

I have a removable rack on the back of the bench. It has most of my go-to tools in it.










I included the mitre box in the pic just for you PK 

Wintergreen, hope you didn't break anything.


----------



## rad457

Found a beater chisel and must say very impressed! Working on the 4th hole and edge holding up way better than expected. Another one of those times when after building the frame I question why I don't I have a Mortise machine but then putting this on the machine may have proved interesting? Trying the Paul Seller method and while I find it slower for mortises this size end result for me much cleaner than using Mortise chisels.


----------



## bandit571

A quick rehab today….chisel had a badly done Hollow Grind, back wasn't the best, handle was loose, and didn't fit right….so…20 minutes or so of "Drudgery" and









back is flat, and those are not pits from rust, either…









A single, flat, 25 degree bevel….honed to 2500 grit, then stropped on clean leather.









handle fits, is straight with the rest of the chisel, blade is 1-1/2" wide. Stanley Defiance No. 1251
Ready to go with the rest of the "Wide Bodies"...as soon as I make a rack for them…









Not a whole lot else to do….passes the time.


----------



## P89DC

> Found a beater chisel and must say very impressed! ...


That's no beater, that's a Marples Blue Handle from Sheffield. Great steel, indestructible handle.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> Found a beater chisel ….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Andre





> ?


??

+1 Not a beater chisel, unless the rest of your collection is Tasai Damascus steel?

The white imprinted, blue plastic handled Marples are some the most desirable of Marples plastic handled chisels.
The later off shore produced versions with yellow imprint did not have same quality steel, or edge retention; now those are beater chisels. 
I own both, and there is a slight different in balance, with blue/white version having a nicer feel to me. 
But then what do I know, #IAMAKLUTZ


----------



## shampeon

The problem is…those are Footprint chisels, not Marples. Also made in Sheffield, and pretty decent chisels, especially for the price. I also don't know if they were manufactured by Marples.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> The problem is…those are Footprint chisels, not Marples. Also made in Sheffield, and pretty decent chisels, especially for the price. I also don t know if they were manufactured by Marples.
> - shampeon


Foot Print are fantastic everyday chisels, IMHO.

On a whim, picked up a set of (4) wooden handled Foot Print chisels at local wood working store black Friday sale. Cost me $10? Way to cheap to not play with set. 
Edges last just as long as my Japanese white steel 'beaters' from Grizzly. Only chisel edge that lasts longer in my shop is Blue steel Japanese (which can chip in really dense woods).

Cheers!


----------



## rad457

Have to go look if there are anymore hiding, found this one with a set of Wood handle Footprints that I bought 30 + years ago. No idea where it came from? Did find a leather roll with some brand new Stanley Baileys. 
That is reclaimed Oak and didn't want to abuse the good chisels  
Edge retention way better than the new Stanley SW 750's and as good as my Two Cherries. Should of tested the Wood handled ones? Anyways just a little fine tuning with a LN 60 1/2 rabbit plane on the tenons and she slipped right on to the base. No glue will be required.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Abstract Stanley chisel of the week: the No. 161. Set of six, offered by Der LeachMeister this month.










Why are these chisels? Why these chisels, that bear a striking resemblance to the craptacular Aldi chisels? Well, I have a 3/8 inch size of the number 161. Needs a new handle, but I have one. It was my granddad's.










And they must have been sharpened free hand. No jig. Every one of them has a camber. Argh.


----------



## bandit571

MIGHT have this No. 1251 sharp enough









Have no idea what a Defiance by Stanley handle looks like….this one work quite well









The infamous Fulton Special….









At least those look better than…









Yep, this IS a Stanley…..thingy…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice "1251", I like. Definitely need a sharpening session with the No. 161s…


----------



## lysdexic

I have been following this thread, admittedly inconsistently, for awhile. Anyone here lovin' on Japanese chisels?


----------



## rad457

> I have been following this thread, admittedly inconsistently, for awhile. Anyone here lovin' on Japanese chisels?
> 
> - lysdexic


Have some cheap ones and the Dove tail ones from Lee Valley (triangle shaped) that seem to work okay. Just checked, looks like they don't sell them anymore? Still have the Fishtail push chisels that get very little use?


----------



## PhillNLeBlanc

> ... As for the Corsair?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Might need a hoop on the hande s end?
> 
> - bandit571


reading my mind-


----------



## bandit571

Couple new items?









and..









Just yard sale items…


----------



## DLK

Hey, Bandit you might remember selling me these timber framing chisels:










They were very useful these past couple of days to make a garden patio edging.


----------



## bandit571

Glad they worked out….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Just sitting at the bench tonight and enjoying the Diamond Edge chisels w/ pecan handles made by Dan K. Beautiful tools, feeling fortunate to be their keeper.


----------



## david2011

Knowing almost nothing about chisels but a little bit about steel, I bought a real Blue Chip Marples made with Sheffield steel. My Dad worked for a division of a US based steel company but I had known of the quality of Sheffield steel since I was a kid. I now have at least one of most sizes of Blue Chip Marples and two of some sizes. In some sizes I have both the construction grade handle that is designed to tolerate wailing upon with a hammer and the woodworker handle. The steel seems to be the same with both handles. Unfortunately they have gotten to the Lie Nielsen price range on EBay but I really like them.


----------



## bandit571

Was trying to sharpen this little chisel, yesterday..









Blade width is just 3/4" wide….that be a pair of jack planes sitting behind it….

Other than a "L.L." on the blade's back up by the handle….no other markings…..Used a thick wire out at the end of the handle…


----------



## Foghorn

> Knowing almost nothing about chisels but a little bit about steel, I bought a real Blue Chip Marples made with Sheffield steel. My Dad worked for a division of a US based steel company but I had known of the quality of Sheffield steel since I was a kid. I now have at least one of most sizes of Blue Chip Marples and two of some sizes. In some sizes I have both the construction grade handle that is designed to tolerate wailing upon with a hammer and the woodworker handle. The steel seems to be the same with both handles. Unfortunately they have gotten to the Lie Nielsen price range on EBay but I really like them.
> 
> - david2011


The Marples blue chip are decent tools. I have a set and a few outliers. They don't compare to my old Stanley 750s as far as edge retention but are decent. They haven't reached Lie Nielsen price yet for good reason although some people do ask stupid money at times. Whether anyone is buying them is another question. Just saw a set of 4 on ebay for less than $20 a chisel. Quite a few larger singles where they're asking $50 plus. Won't see me lining up.


----------



## RWE

I picked up German chisel today, a Jordan. Trade Mark reads

Finest Quality

Jordan

Germany

Forged Steel

The handle may not be original. Not sure. Beveled sides, 1/2 inch. May have overpaid at $14, but I mainly have English or American chisels, so having a German one had some appeal.

Any opinion about the brand Jordan. I saw a few hits on Ebay with Jordan chisels.


----------



## bandit571

Something else to look over…









Just a Witherby….


----------



## Brit

Never heard of Jordan chisels before but a quick Google revealed quite a few and each had a different handle. Maybe they were sold without handles and each user added their own. The look like nice chisels though.

Bandit - No such thing as just a Witherby. )


----------



## RWE

> Never heard of Jordan chisels before but a quick Google revealed quite a few and each had a different handle. Maybe they were sold without handles and each user added their own. The look like nice chisels though.
> 
> Bandit - No such thing as just a Witherby. )
> 
> - Brit


The Flea Mall booth where I picked up the Jordan chisel is always stocked with a lot of "esoteric" stuff for here in the sleepy South. I figure he buys in bulk at auction and distributes the articles to multiple locations where he has booths.

I guess that would be a Butt chisel handle or a Palm chisel handle and I wondered if it was the original. The rolled over metal on the hollow mortise had been ground off. I figure the guy pulls a part here and there to make things work. In any event, I liked the feel of the chisel.

Also, my favorite drawknife is a Witherby that I picked up many years back.


----------



## bandit571

Then there was a Buck Brothers chisel being put to work..









3/8" Mortise Chisel….might have been a little "over-kill"?


----------



## bandit571

The other 2 in the picture…were re-sharpened up, today…









As I have hinge mortises to do….not much chopping, and more of a pare cut.


----------



## bandit571

Not sure who made this little chisel..









He be an "Outie" and got put to work









Along with that 4-in-hand. 









Carving a Finger Lift..


----------



## Bertha

Lysdexic, I have a love for Japanese chisels. I've amassed quite a few, but don't own a "set" and wouldn't know a matching chisel if you paid me. I'll post some.


----------



## bandit571

Hmm..









Morning to ya, Bertha, long time, no see…..


----------



## Bertha

Ya Bandit! Had some health problems catching up with me from a lifetime of dipping (called "rubbing" in WV) snuff, drinking whiskey, and just general sinning. During my hiatus, I still managed to amass some tools and put them to use. I need a better system. Now, it takes me longer to post images than it did to complete the project lol. Exaggeration, sure, but I've got a boatload to post.

To your question….I see some Irwins, solid workers. I see a couple sockets. Graceful handle on the one 4th from the left. You've got a small vacancy in the back, so, my vote's for a pretty tang, 3/16 or so.

Personally, I'm just finishing an Addis carving chisel hunt and I'll post a gloat. I made a whole spoon carving setup for a pal that needs it more than me. That was a fun leather/wood…hell, pictures speak volumes. I'll just get to posting.

Thanks, Bandit. I always know I can log in and look at what you've been up to. It's a nice feeling. al


----------



## Bertha

And now a question for all:

I attend many antique stores. Lots. Where are all the chisels? I can find shops with a stanley #2 but no chisels at all. Up in the North East, they are dipping them in black paint. I can get that off, so no big deal. But antique stores with a good collection of tools rarely have a lot of chisels.

It's a very odd thing. You'd think a chisel would be more common than a bit brace or drawknife; yet, they are no where to be found.

Anyone have any guesses?


----------



## Lazyman

I think that antique dealers just don't think that they are cool enough for their stores so don't even look at them when they go to estate sales or where ever they buy stuff. Also, old chisels often get pretty badly abused so often don't look salvageable to someone who has never restored an old tool.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't have much luck in antique stores in this part of the country period but I definitely don't see many chisels. I've had more luck with chisels from flea markets. Plenty on Ebay of course but you've gotta really want em…


----------



## drsurfrat

I am too close to Boston to have many antique stores that have the real rusty stuff. Estate sales have them on occasion, but they are snatched up so fast it makes your head spin. If I find one, it is usually in the bottom of a wet toolbox. But as Nathan said, most don't know how easy it is to restore them. The couple flea markets I've been to seem to only have the modern plastic handle ones.


----------



## bandit571

Come up to Harmony,OH..Corner of US 40 and I-70…..Heart of Ohio Antique Center…and spend the afternoon..









Just one wall of this single stall, and there are 2 more like this IN just this stall..









Other teasers…









And..









There are 8 "rooms" all inter-connected…..will take you 3hr to walk through it all….


----------



## RWE

Down here in the sleepy Southeast chisels are a hit or miss proposition. I used to find them at a monthly Flea market at a state park, but Covid seems to have changed the vendor representation there and the "tool" vendors have diminished. There are a couple of Flea malls where you can stumble over them occasionally. But I have noticed in the last couple of years that they seem to be more difficult to find. Estate sales and vendors at flea malls that scour estate sales seem to be the best shot. I like socket chisels and they are becoming more and more difficult to find.


----------



## dbray45

I was going to recommend going to the Auction and tool sale sponsored by PATINA in Damascus, MD but it has been rescheduled. Was on March 12th, now on October 15th. The tool sales part, outside (rain or shine) starts at 4:30-5:00AM and goes until 4:00PM. the Auction part is in the afternoon. Vendors are from Florida - New York - Midwest.

When I lived there, I got everything from planes, hand saws, blades, Jacobson chucks, everything from pristine, in the box, to needing a whole lot of work. Prices are negotiable.

Web page is "http://www.patinatools.org/auctioninfo.asp"

Nope, this is not a sponsored add for them - just a lot of fun.

There is a 7-11 a couple of blocks away for the morning coffee. The building that the auction is in has a kitchen but it is closed until 9:00 AM. The building has vendors in it as well as the auction items.


----------



## bandit571

Maybe stop by while on the chisel hunt?


----------



## DevinT

I'll have a look for some chisels next time I visit the flea market.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Same thing here in Michigan, I think I've found 1 or 2 chisels at antique shops. I usually find them at flea markets or estate sales.


----------



## Brit

One of my New Year's resolutions was to fill at least one of the walls in my workshop with tools this year, so I can finally get all my tools out of the crates they are currently in, get rid of the crates and create more space in there. I say more space (it is only 9ft x 9ft but that is enough for me). I collected all the chisels and gouges I wanted to include in the rack and laid them all out into three rows.

The back row will contain my I Sorby pig stickers and lock mortise chisels.










The middle row will contain a set of Palm Tree firmer chisels, three small sash mortise chisels, three in cannel gouges and three paring chisels.










The front row will contain my Ashley Iles Mk II bevel-edged chisels, two Lie Nielsen dovetail chisels and three out cannel gouges.










Free time is a bit tight at the moment, so I've been going down to my workshop at 5.30am most mornings to do a bit. On the home straight now and looking forward to finally seeing a tool rack on the wall. I'll post it as a project when I've finished it. Might not be for a while though as part of the rack will be painted, but I probably won't bother painting it until I've built the plane rack that will sit next to the chisel rack, so I can paint them both together.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

+1 Chisels at flea market or antique store are hit and miss proposition in AZ too.

IMHO - Lack of inventory at antique store is due to low value per unit on chisels?

Most garage sale chisels sell for 50 cents or $1, and might sell for $5 at antique mall. There are so many off brands, the stamps are too small to read or worn off most times; that it takes a lot research time to know value. When you do find chisels, it is mostly single chisels, or incomplete sets. So unless you run across a garage sale by wood worker, all you find are modern hardware store low grade chromium steel junk. 
When you do find a decent old Witherby, Sorby,Two Cherries, or other Sheffield chisel; the asking price is the fleabay current top market price. Sigh.
This is not to say you should give up looking. Can find old chisel cheap occasionally. Found a 6pc set of Ashley Iles O1 bench chisels at garage sale bargain price once, but that is like finding a needle in field of haystacks.

Cheers!


----------



## jonoseph

What about chisel edge guards ? I bought some blue plastic things and they are in the Chocolate Teapot category. 
e bay only turns up these rubbish ones . So I make my own with leather . I fold the leather over the blade edge and glue the sides with Evo-stik . Do one side at a time and clamp the glued part in a vice .Take the chisel away while the glue sets . It`s fairly quick to dry .In case the leather has any tendency to cause rust I spray inside them with WD 40 .Shape the chisel face side flat and make the other side with a bulge.Then cut a small notch to show which side is which .
These guards stay in place very well .I trim the edges with metal cutters that look like chunky scissors .


----------



## HokieKen

Looking great Andy! The rack is certainly well thought out but it's the tools that are making me drool


----------



## rad457

On my too do list, need to make new system to store ever increasing carving chisels, just not sure how many more might shown up? Reminds me that those Pig Stickers that "had to have" have disappeared?


----------



## Brit

LOL Andre. I have a crate full of carving tools now. I'm going to build a bank of drawers to house those. At the start of lockdown in 2020 I probably had about 20 carving tools, but here's what I discovered about acquiring carving tools.

You know that old saying "Buy the tools you need for each project you want to carve". Well that is great in theory, but it doesn't match with how small tool making firms work. I like Ashley Iles carving tools and when I went to order the tools I needed for my next carving project, I found that about two thirds of them weren't currently available. Small tool manufacturers make batches of certain sweeps and sizes at any given time and you have to ready with the cash to buy them when they become available online. If you wait and they run out of the ones you want again, it could be up to two years before they will make the next batch. Life's too short for that, so I compiled a spreadsheet of all the different sizes and sweeps that I thought I would ever need in straight gouges and chisels, fishtails, long bent, short bent, back bent, etc and ever since then I look online each week to see which ones on my list are available and I buy them. I record that I've ordered each one and where from and then I update the spreadsheet again once I receive them. My spreadsheet tells me I now have 138 carving tools with 32 remaining on my wish list.

They are all in a plastic crate at the moment and I'm dreading having to commission them all. LOL.


----------



## ToddJB

Andy there is a lot of patience displayed in your rack. It appears each chisel was fitted individually. Nicely done.


----------



## Brit

Thanks Todd and yes they are all fitted individually. Many of the tools made their own home. I looked at a lot of chisel racks online before I started it and decided the following:

1) I didn't want to use magnets. Nothing wrong with magnets, I just didn't like the thought of the rack resisting me every time I wanted one of the tools.
2) I didn't like racks where the tools lean in all different directions.
3) I didn't want the tools to be spaced too far apart. In fact I had to buy a 1" Ashley Iles MkII bevel-edged chisel just so the front row spacing was comparable to the other two rows. LOL.


----------



## HapHazzard

> 1) I didn t want to use magnets. Nothing wrong with magnets, I just didn t like the thought of the rack resisting me every time I wanted one of the tools.


I'll tell you what's wrong with magnets, especially for holding chisels. Every time you sharpen them, they grow hair. (The filings cling to the blade so you have to blow them away to see the edge.)


----------



## HapHazzard

These are the handiest chisels I own.



















They're not fancy or expensive; I can't even remember what they were called, but, as chisels, they better than any rasp, and as rasps, they're better than any chisel. They hold an edge really well, and they've held up really well under duress. They're my go-to chisels because I don't want to wear out my "good" chisels, and they almost always get the job done.


----------



## Brit

Haphazard - Good point about the metal filings. Never seen chisel / rasps before. Glad you like them.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hap, I've seen those described as "tool-shaped objects," so it's good to hear from someone who actually has them and likes them! Cool!


----------



## HapHazzard

My latest turning chisel.









Square chisel, black walnut handle.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Some nice work there Andy on the chisel racks. I hope they work for you. Since I moved my shop, my chisels are all in drawers now. I had some racks like those but did not have room for that type in the new shop. 
Nice collection of Ashly Iles you have there. Over here in the semi-arid environment I live in, all the wood handles shrunk and the ferrules fell off the set of Ashley Iles I have. I just wrapped some tape on the wood and slid the ferrules back up.


----------



## RWE

I am posting this here and on the wood carving thread. Any feedback would be appreciated.

I ran across a tool that the vendor described as a "tool handle". I looks like the handle of an egg beater drill. At the tip, it has a twist mechanism and a set of 4 jaws to lock in the chosen bit. The cap of the handle unscrews and there were four tips in total.

However, I was thinking it was a crazy screw driver, but upon inspection, the tips were for wood carving. One gouge, two flat single bevel chisels, and one pointed tools that I guess is intended to be used for ornamentation on carving.

My guess is that it was meant for a wood carver to have a portable travel tool, store your tips in the handle and off you go. I thought it was too pricey at $30 or so dollars so I passed.

Anyone ever seen such an animal? Maybe they are rare as hen's teeth and worth hundreds?? Probably not, but it was different.


----------



## bandit571

Have the same one in the shop…except mine was intended as a screwdriver…I think. Someone had beat the "H" out of them, though…Also, mine had square shanks…not rounds…


----------



## RWE

> Have the same one in the shop…except mine was intended as a screwdriver…I think. Someone had beat the "H" out of them, though…Also, mine had square shanks…not rounds…
> 
> - bandit571


I get the idea that you could buy this fellow back in the day and choose from a selection of tips?? The jaws work fairly well. The only other possibility is that it was a screw driver and some previous owner cut off some carving tools to a size he could travel with.


----------



## DevinT

How long of a shank can it accommodate?

It looks like it is designed to hold mini chisels which have a long round shank (longer than you have pictured).

Mini chisels are usually used by hand without a handle and handles are rare but not unknown.

Also could be that to use the handle you just grab a hacksaw and shorten the shank (could have been done with the pictured mini chisels you showed).

Nice find! Sure will make using mini chisels a lot more fun with better control, grip, and less stress.


----------



## DevinT

Search for "mini chisel set" on Amazon and you will find that they look like the ones you posted except shanks are longer. Again, very nice find.


----------



## RWE

Combo Prof posted on the carving thread. He has two. Said they were called multi-tools. You could buy different sets of tips for carving, leather work, screw drivers etc. I passed on it, but it was cool and different. Never had seen one. Bandit has one with a screwdriver tip.



> Search for "mini chisel set" on Amazon and you will find that they look like the ones you posted except shanks are longer. Again, very nice find.
> 
> - DevinT


----------



## bandit571

And..we have a photo…or 3..









And…









take the cap off the handle..









Bits for 2 small slotted screws, and a nail puller…there WAS a 4th wider screwdriver bit…was too hammered to be of use..and was tossed.


----------



## RWE

And I bet you paid $2.50 for yours. LOL


----------



## bandit571

$1….Yard Sale….


----------



## RWE

> $1….Yard Sale….
> 
> - bandit571


I guess that is how you got your name. Always making out like a Bandit. Sure beats $30.00.


----------



## jonoseph

If you want to fit a tang blade with a handle ,first check the tang is straight and lines up with the blade . Don`t try to straighten the tang. Just be aware of it`s alignment. Measure the thickest part of the tang which is square .Now measure the same part diagonally. Drill the hole in the handle as close to the tang diagonal thickness to avoid looseness . Drill the full depth of the tang instead of worrying about a tapered hole . Then mix quick setting Araldite. Get plenty of Araldite into the hole first. Coat the tang with Araldite . Then insert the tang and line up the handle and blade . If you checked the dry fit before you will know which is the best position . Support the blade and handle in position until the Araldite begins to set . Work out the support method first . Bluetack is useful for that .Put paper between chisel and Bluetack to keep it simple


----------



## bandit571

Lay out work…setting the spaces for finger/box joints…









6mm width…chisel is one of 2 that will do the chopping, once a saw is done…









Nothing fancy…


----------



## RWE

I picked up a 3/4 wide beveled Stanley "Made in USA" chisel on the trip I just took. When I started researching it, I ran into a lot of threads stating that it could be a "worthy" chisel, maybe a 720 or 750 etc. but just not marked with a number.

I have one 750 and it is the shiny one pictured with the proper handle. The new "Made in USA" has an improper replacement handle.
*
Any experts know about the Made in USA variety of Stanley chisels and have an opinion about them. Seems that it was a contentious topic on some of the threads that popped up on my internet research.*

I will turn a new handle and sharpen the Made in USA and don't really care about whether it is on par with a 750 or 720 etc., but the mystery is interesting. One fellow stated that researching old Stanley catalogs did not give enough information to figure out numbered chisels versus ones that were not numbered.

*750 on top. Made in USA on bottom. I paid $5 for the Made in USA, so I feel good about the deal.*


----------



## bandit571

$5 a chisel, today….









Did I pay too much? Both are 1/2" wide….The PEXTO one seems to be more of a paring chisel…the other is almost a firmer chisel, with thick sides…

The fancy handled one is the PEXTO…and I doubt IF that handle was OEM…


----------



## Foghorn

> I picked up a 3/4 wide beveled Stanley "Made in USA" chisel on the trip I just took. When I started researching it, I ran into a lot of threads stating that it could be a "worthy" chisel, maybe a 720 or 750 etc. but just not marked with a number.
> 
> I have one 750 and it is the shiny one pictured with the proper handle. The new "Made in USA" has an improper replacement handle.
> *
> Any experts know about the Made in USA variety of Stanley chisels and have an opinion about them. Seems that it was a contentious topic on some of the threads that popped up on my internet research.*
> 
> I will turn a new handle and sharpen the Made in USA and don t really care about whether it is on par with a 750 or 720 etc., but the mystery is interesting. One fellow stated that researching old Stanley catalogs did not give enough information to figure out numbered chisels versus ones that were not numbered.
> 
> *750 on top. Made in USA on bottom. I paid $5 for the Made in USA, so I feel good about the deal.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - RWE


I have a lot of 750 and 720 chisels. Without getting too deep into it, the ones marked Stanley Made in USA were remarked as a result of a change in metallurgy which Stanley had a habit of doing and were of a more recent vintage. The older ones marked 750 or 720 had up to 3% vanadium and the newer ones, somewhat less. 750 chisels have a 3 1/4" blade length and 720's a 6" blade length. For collectors, the 750 or 720 markings mean a much higher value.


----------



## Brit

Finally got to do a bit more to my chisel rack the last couple of evenings and couldn't resist a dry fit with all the chisels. Still a little bit to finish off, but at lease it's progress. I showed my wife and she said:

"It's nice, but the number of chisels you possess is obsessive".

Anyone got any idea what she's on about?


----------



## DavePolaschek

I think you've got a good start at a serious collection there, Andy, and you're welcome to tell your wife I said that, especially if you'll tell my sweetie the same about my hand planes. ;-)


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Awesome Andy. I thought I had an obsession with chisels.


----------



## Phil32

Brit - I see that you slotted the chisel positions on the top row, but not on the lower two rows. Change of plans? How do you handle the variations in chisel width and length? Also dogleg, long bent & spoon bent gouges?


----------



## HokieKen

Beautiful Andy! And I haven't a clue of what your wife speaks. I wouldn't even consider that obsessive-adjacent ;-)


----------



## Brit

Thanks guys.

@*Phil* - Good question. Although there are 6 gouges in this rack, these tools are for general woodworking projects and the rack was made specifically for the chisels shown. I won't be using any of these for carving projects. My carving tools will all be held in a bank of drawers that I have yet to build.

The top row is slotted by design because I intend to have a deep shelf directly above this chisel rack so it won't be possible to lift any of those chisels straight up and out. For this reason, I have allowed a 40mm gap between the front of the top row and the back of the middle row. So, to remove a chisel from the back row after the rack is on the wall with the shelf in place above it, you lift it about 10mm, slide it forward until it is free of the slot and then rotate the chisel 90 degrees about it's horizontal axis. Although this sounds complicated, it is really easy to do in practice. There is enough room to remove all of the chisels from the other two rows by lifting them straight up.

Also, although the above reason is why I slotted the top row in my situation, I still would have designed it this way for the following reasons:

1) When the rack is on the wall, I will have to raise my hand above shoulder height to remove one of the mortise chisels and it would be too much of a stretch to then lift it straight up and out.
2) When the rack is on the wall, the top row will be at eye level, so if the mortises weren't slotted, I wouldn't be able to see where the hole was when putting a chisel back in the rack.
3) On the larger sizes of vintage English mortise chisels, the width of the shank flares out towards the tip, so I would have to make the mortise wide enough to allow entry of the tip, but the fit would be sloppy by the time I had lowered the chisel down onto it's bolster and therefore the chisels would lean left or right rather than sitting vertically.

That's probably a lot more information than you wanted LOL, but as you can see, a lot of thought went into this simple project


----------



## MikeB_UK

> Finally got to do a bit more to my chisel rack the last couple of evenings and couldn t resist a dry fit with all the chisels. Still a little bit to finish off, but at lease it s progress. I showed my wife and she said:
> 
> "It s nice, but the number of chisels you possess is obsessive".
> 
> Anyone got any idea what she s on about?
> 
> - Brit


I can only assume it because there are 42 of them and she's a Douglas Adams fan, get a few more and you should be fine


----------



## EarlS

Next time my wife tells me I have too many [fill in the blank] woodworking tools, I'll show her your chisel collection.

Nice collection and well displayed.


----------



## Brit

> Finally got to do a bit more to my chisel rack the last couple of evenings and couldn t resist a dry fit with all the chisels. Still a little bit to finish off, but at lease it s progress. I showed my wife and she said:
> 
> "It s nice, but the number of chisels you possess is obsessive".
> 
> Anyone got any idea what she s on about?
> 
> - Brit
> 
> I can only assume it because there are 42 of them and she s a Douglas Adams fan, get a few more and you should be fine
> 
> - MikeB_UK


All I know is that it feels like it is taking me 7.5 million years to complete it LOL.


----------



## BlasterStumps

One thing I quickly discovered with having tools in racks is that you do not want to be fumble fingers when you go to take one out of the rack. It seems obvious but I would guess that anyone using a rack has experienced the chisel coming part way out of the rack and then catching causing you to partially or totally loose your grip on it.


----------



## HokieKen

What are your favorite general-purpose bench chisels Andy? Not the ones you keep with a 15 degree bevel for paring and not the beaters you keep with a 35 degree bevel for opening paint cans and chiseling a knot out of a board. But the ones you want handy all the time and grab for 80% of the time?

I have a set of the newer Stanley 150s that I like but I can't find a bevel angle that gives me just-the-right balance of sharpness and edge retention. I have some vintage EA Bergs that I really like but they aren't readily available and are rarely a "bargain" so I doubt I'll ever have a full set. And I recently bought an Ashley Iles bench chisel because I like their carving tools so well and they seem to be a good value. But, I haven't even gotten around to sharpening it let alone putting it through its paces so I don't know if it'll prove to be a favorite or not. The Veritas PMV11 chisels always tempt me but the price tempers the temptation…


----------



## Brit

General purpose chisels are my Ashley Iles Mk II bevel-edged chisels Kenny.

I have to admit that chiseling the pine sides of this chisel rack has made me reconsider my bevel angles though. You know how pine alternates between rock hard annual rings and soft annual rings, well chopping through the hard rings turned a burr on the two Ashley Iles Mk II chisels I was using to do it. I had been sharpening them with around a 23 degree primary bevel and a 27 degree micro-bevel. I think what I will end up doing is sharpening the vintage Palm Tree set (second row far right in the rack pics above) with a primary of 25 and no secondary unless a particular job requires it and leave the Ashley Iles Mk IIs at their current bevel angles

I'm sure the Veritas PMV11 chisels are excellent, but for a predominantly hand tool woodworker like me, they'd be a PITA to sharpen compared to O1 tool steel.


----------



## Phil32

Thanks Brit - I was sure you had carefully thought out the arrangement of the chisel rack and wanted other readers to know your thought process. Some woodworkers seem to assume there's a "proper way" to do these things and follow blindly.

I don't have a dedicated space for my woodworking. Some activity shares the garage with vehicles, sports equipment, and general storage. I actually do my woodcarving in our dining room - on the dining table - so the space is changed to entertain guests. I bring out the tools I'm using for the current project. Most of them are stored in divided boxes under our bed! About 30 are in a beechwood box with a slot for each tool that Pfeil once offered as their "Brienz Collection."










Do I recommend this for other woodcarvers? No.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I have a set of the Ashley Isles MK II and I can say they are some of my favorite but definitely not something I beat on, the edges I think aren't enough support for heavy tasks.

For my "beefy" set I have a set of some above average Japanese chisels I like a lot.

I recently (last couple years) bought two of the IBC chisels Rob Cosman sells. Not sure why I was intrigued by them but I had to try them and the 1/2" is my go to chisel for most things now. Maybe because they are the "new" ones but I do enjoy those. Before these the Japanese chisels were my main set for beating on things. MK II for finesse.


----------



## RyanGi

Only a small set there in the middle. The rest are gouges, files or screwdriver. Quarter sizes are Narex which I feel fine beating on. In between 1/8 sizes are Lie Nielsen. I did just get my first traditional English style mortise chisel from Ray Isles. It's a beast!

I'd like to collect some older ones from across the Pond, but shipping costs are just stupid. Maybe we'll take a trip over there and I'll collect a couple to bring back!


----------



## rad457

Changed the racks in the wall cabinet to allow the ever increasing carving tools, put a bevel on the back so the tips would not cut me when getting a chisel out, top row is the Stanley 720's and my one Vintage 750 1/8" ):
I have 1/8", 1/4", 1/2" and 3/4" chisels on the bench, 2 German an 2 Swedish but usually pull out a set of the New Stanley 750's or the Lee Valley Japanese Dove tail for actual projects? I find the Japanese the most difficult to sharpen? No PMV-11 chisels but all my user planes have it and find it just as easy to sharpen a A-2 and way easier the 0-2 ?


----------



## rad457

Did someone mention Bergs, found a couple hiding








2 of the nicer ones, the others are all faded.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice Andre! Those look like mine except mine have wood handles.


----------



## rad457

Found a few more, have no idea about this one?


















Have heard this one is desirable? 








Stanley 750 1/8" NOS.


----------



## Foghorn

That Stanley is worth $200 USD or more in the collectors market. I have one but in nowhere near as good shape as yours Andre. Does it have the 750 marking on it or is it a later version with Stanley Made in USA without the 750 marking?


----------



## theoldfart

Andre, that might be a Buck Bros gouge.


----------



## HokieKen

The stamp on that gouge say "something Sorby, Cast Steel."


----------



## theoldfart

Better eyes than mine.


----------



## HokieKen

Better glasses than eyes ;-)


----------



## rad457

> That Stanley is worth $200 USD or more in the collectors market. I have one but in nowhere near as good shape as yours Andre. Does it have the 750 marking on it or is it a later version with Stanley Made in USA without the 750 marking?
> 
> - Foghorn


Has both?


----------



## rad457

This has similar markings, looks liken a 1/8" Mortise chisel, sorta looks like the Stanley style


----------



## Foghorn

> That Stanley is worth $200 USD or more in the collectors market. I have one but in nowhere near as good shape as yours Andre. Does it have the 750 marking on it or is it a later version with Stanley Made in USA without the 750 marking?
> 
> - Foghorn
> 
> Has both?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Andre


Then it's the one collectors value the most. Worth less without the 750 marking and even less with "Stanley" on the blade portion. The markings were changed according to the sources I've read, any time there was a change in metallurgy.


----------



## bandit571

This one has a lot of words stamped near the top of it's socket..









More of a Sash Mortise Chisel…[email protected] 1/8" wide…


----------



## bandit571

And…this 8mm Narex will have some work to do…tomorrow…









Have a bunch of mortises to chop…in Ash…


----------



## Brit

> The stamp on that gouge say "something Sorby, Cast Steel."
> 
> - HokieKen


That is a Robert Sorby gouge. Robert is shortened to ROBT where the 'T' is in superscript, sometimes with a line under it. Here are a couple more examples:


















You can read about their history here:
https://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/media/wysiwyg/robert_sorby_history_of_booklet.pdf


----------



## CTMike

No one has been able to answer this.

Why did SW❤ make hundreds of thousands of ever-last chisels, and not one gouge?

Was it because everything, and everyone in New Britan was square…..🪓 SW❤ couldn’t bend steal?

Everyone who knows is dead?


----------



## CTMike

ShaneA said:


> Yeah, hunting in the wild seems like it presents its own sets of problems. Time, for one, my soft heart for another. I imagine it would be hard to leave behind some soldiers I see on my journey. But, how many #5 baileys does a man really "need"? I can see myself being trapped by…but it is only $12!!!


Shane

last weekend I drove two hours plus to dig in an antique barn. I found a Stanley no. 51. NOT for thousands $$$ either.

Keep digging guys!

v/r
Michael


----------

