# Making money



## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

I started in earnest last may making things for money. 
I do this as my primary income while my wife still has her job and pays the majority of the bills. This gives me enough time to build my business up.

One of the things I learned early on in this business is that if you're going to make a living at it, you have to do everything. And a lot of everything has nothing to do with woodworking.

Turning bowls is great for gifts, and unless you are stellar at it and set up to do shows, you should plan on having gifts on hand for the family on occasions like birthday's and Christmas.

Making things like tables and chests are always good and rewarding, but don't expect people to even inquire about them. They all love them, but no one buys.

If you are going to make furniture, the best way I've found to market it, is to get it into some retail store, take your 30% to 50% hit and move on to the next thing. I like to keep a few dozen pieces on hand to stock these stores up. Don't get too proud of your work, it won't sell for what YOU think it will. Trust the retailers pricing, they usually can get it sold for you which is better than it taking up space in your home.

Making outdoor furniture is also very profitable as long as you don't gouge folks. If they get some good furniture at a great price, they'll tell others and you'll be backed up before long with folks wanting your chairs, tables, and benches.

My number one money maker is Craigslist. I usually put ads in for my furniture, cutting boards and I also pepper the skilled services with ads geared to Handiman work. 
Monday, I quote two jobs, one is a simple job to repair three holes in some drywall, and the other is to remove a entryway door that comes into a bedroom about 4 feet and make it a flush to wall door. Neither of these jobs will take me more than a couple days, and I'll probably see around 500-600$ out of that.

I only need about 1500$ a month to scrape by, and that is very doable if you do everything you possibly can.

I figure that once I get known for my furniture, I can make a living on that alone, but meanwhile I'm having fun being my own boss.

It is doable guys, just remember to stretch yourself, give up your fears and get out there.

When spring comes, I'll be in my shop with the doors open and the birds singing. Where will you be, in some dank office?


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## Danpaddles (Jan 26, 2012)

This is the first year I have sold stuff, did real well at an arts/ crafts show, did just okay at another show. Luckyu I do not have to make a living at it! I do feel like working under pressure, to have lots of stuff to sell, has taken away my hobby. Now it is a job, not a hobby.

I also found out I had to watch close to keep my quality up, doing a project a day, I started to rush things.

Then I had to look at stuff I could make faster. The first time I make something, it takes longer. But new skills and new projects were always some of the fun stuff for me.

I did surprisingly well with bird houses and bird feeders, even though I feel I make better trinket boxes. Okay, fair enough, the bird feeders and houses don't need finish!


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## TravisH (Feb 6, 2013)

Congrats on things going well. I can see where it would be fun to be your own boss and glad it is working out for you. Having a optimistic outlook is very helpful. It is something I have a difficult time grasping but that is my nature.

I think doable really is dependent upon the individual and what they are willing to accept. I know several guys that took the step in various fields to be their own boss…and if some were honest with themselves their standard of living isn't great (never mind no retirement, insurance, etc… they will be living off others dime at some point) and to boot they "work" many more hours. I say work because a big part of their work is now trying to get work. Some have a spouse that makes decent money and benefits to allow them to play and more importantly don't hole them accountable. I would be more than a little ticked if my wife decided to pursue a job that wasn't profitable. When stocking cans on a shelf or greeting people ends up being more profitable than ones dream it is time to make changes. I would be stressed out beyond belief but they are "blessed" with being blissfully unaware of their precarious position. I guess that is how they see themselves as being successful. They have a knack of seeing the economy as being bad for why they don't have work or make little, the divorce was all her fault as she fell out of love, etc…..

I can see doing this because of situations arising but to stop my current job I could never do. It wouldn't be pretty being my own boss doing woodworking (never mind the lack of skill set). Heck right off the bait I have 4 weeks of vacation, week of sick time, 9 holidays, 2 floating days, and almost always a few days are given for work and work 40 hrs a week on my schedule. Take pay and other benefits into the equation and ends up with me having to be a busy and successful out of the gate to be in a similar economic situation when I want to retire.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Keep up the good work Russ


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Russell, I'm going to give it a try. I retired last August when we lost the plant and I finally built a shop. I hope that my wife can work another four years and maybe during that time I can get a business going that will supplement our Social Security. It's all new to me.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

There's a lot of work for a decent fix-it carpenter. If you
promote your casework people will ask you to do all sorts
of things, some of which will be a drag. If you have an
ability to keep a truck ready to go with everything
you need in it, that can make doing quickie jobs 
easier. If you're making checklists and humping tools
from the shop to the truck every time you have to
work on site it consumes a lot of time.

If you help out little old ladies by fixing a step or
whatever they will recommend you. Then you'll 
have people calling you to fix chairs. You can charge
a fair rate to do repairs and people will pay it, but
it's hard to get people to move the pieces so you'll
need to either pick up and deliver the work yourself
or contract somebody to do it for you.

Putting in windows and doors, repairing fascia board, 
replacing fence posts…. and so on. A lot of stuff
can come up and if you've got the energy to drive
around and work from a truck it's an easier way
to make a buck than building fine furniture.

Basic casework, home repairs and trim carpentry are the 
easiest to sell and there are always customers.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

Many years ago when I was 26 I started my own contracting business with $200 in the bank , all the tools I needed and a place to work with them. I was the sole breadwinner in my family of four so the pressure was on me to make a go of it. I was a HVAC contractor and struggled for most of the nine years I did this. I kept out of debt and we all ate regularly. It can be done, and the way I did it was to work for someone else in the same business for four years and then stared out on my own. Yes, do whatever you can but know your trade or business well. I now sell my woodworking at street fairs and festivals. I do not make enough to live on doing this but it does fund my hobby 100%+


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

Russel,
I am glad to hear you got the opportunity to start your business. It's your kind of fortitude that drives this country.

Diversify is definitely the way to go. I have gotten woodworking jobs from handyman jobs. You have to get your name out there. And people that know you and know your work will pass it on to others. 
As in most companies someone took a large risk to start their business. If your not willing or knowledgeable enough to do that, I would certainly not suggest anyone does. 
I make a few extra grand each year off my hobby/business but I don't really need the income. If I wanted to make more I could certainly get my name/product out there more. 
As I have always thought, I believe I have always been my own boss. I use a company to get knowledge and income, while at the same time use my acquired skills to help improve the company.


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## shopdog (Nov 9, 2008)

Making money working with your hands isn't easy…you already know that. We should make more money than lawyers, but that ain't happening. I live in an affluent area, which makes it much easier. People here in Brooklyn are willing to pay well for someone that shows up on time, does good work, is honest, and cleans up.

The important thing is to find a niche. I build high end decks, and built-in bookcases. I have a great rep in my area, and have lots of people calling and emailing. I get to pick my projects. It took me years to get to where I am…making a decent living. In my spare time, I'm in my shop making cutting boards, and lots of scrollsaw projects. Mostly, they are gifts for friends and clients, but I also sell some pieces…but I'm not aggressive about selling crafts. I don't need to. 
I also do some handyman work for my clients…and they pay well for that too.

Being your own boss is a great feeling, but it doesn't guarantee a good paycheck. I started out 35 years ago doing whatever people wanted for $15 per hour. It was a struggle because I needed to have 3, 4, or 5 different clients each week. Each night, I had to put tools together for the next day. It was tough, but I was young, and liked being my own boss. I also worked for contractors from time to time (learning new skills), getting a regular paycheck. Before I became independent, I was a college dropout, driving a taxi in NYC…after years of that, I was willing to do anything besides taxi driving. I'm 63 now, and looking to retire soon. Fortunately, I can afford to…

Anyway, good luck with your business


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

This is something I'm considering too. I really like your points on having someone else sell the stuff for you, it seems to try to do this along with production (even on a small scale) would take the enjoyment out of it for many people, I suspect myself included. Another thing you didn't mention that I've been told my a few different entrepreneurial experts is don't finance anything if you're not certain it's something you absolutely want to do. Making payments on machinery that was intended for a business would make for a pretty pricey hobby for most, combined with the associated stress would again be working toward removing the enjoyment of woodworking.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Russell great points you made and sounds like you have everything figured out, what sales and doesn't, How to's and don'ts, I remember you mentioned in an early post you were dealing with an unsatisfactory situation with some store front owners and treatment of your goods, how did that turn out? Did you ever get a truck?

I'm very fortunate to be in the position I'm in, I retired 4 years ago at the age of 50 now 54 after 25 years under that company umbrella, I will have annuity checks coming for the remainder of my days, I still have a mortgage though but low payment most everything else is paid off, my truck is an 06 Tundra crew cab with only 51k on it and it's been paid off for several years so it's still good, what income I make from my sales is mostly profit I keep a low over head by luck of finding dead trees locally and cutting with my chain saw making my own wood / lumber. I try to limit as much hardware as possible but making what ever I can from wood take for instance wooden hinges that's a savings, lucky I don't have to rely on my sales for a living so what income I make from my woodworking is mostly profit and savings.

I've found that you have to find and make what people want, is it something they can use, is it practical, is it unique? These things are what I've come to conclude, also keep in mind that the ladies are the shoppers more so then men, its in their nature so you have to appease them as well.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Blackie, I ended up being asked to remove my wares from the store. I tried everything I know to get her to display the tables without other people's stuff on them. I hear the whole thing was a bust anyway, so I didn't lose a thing.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Ah OK, sounds like it was for your best anyway then, less drama and heartache.


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## Tedstor (Mar 12, 2011)

Many of the neighborhoods in my area are managed by an HOA, and every mailbox in the neighborhood must be uniform style and color. 
When I was a kid I used to make some good coin scraping and repainting said mailboxes/posts. I made over $1000 one particular month. Pretty good coin for a 15 yo with no car. And I was often offerred other odd jobs on the side. So yes, its very doable to make money if you're willing to broaden your horizons.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

My experience is different than yours. At my shows I COUNT ON selling trunks. They virtually never fail to sell. Nothing happens overnight. I am going on 5 years now. It has steadily increased over that time, but I have put a lot of time into building it up. I have done some really good shows as well as some really bad ones, but now I know which shows to go to. I hope everyone here has success in pursuit of their woodworking dreams.


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## Zabazoom (Aug 28, 2012)

When I was younger I went from the engineering world to doing remodels and some new builds, lugged around a shop in a truck, because very job no matter how small needed just about every tool  I eventually found my way into working on a couple of ongoing rehab, maintenance contracts, an eighty year old Ballroom, a sixty year old Apple Orchid, and a Marina. When I retired I started building Guitars and never have to leave the shop now, The biggest thing you need to do is find a Niche Market and build up your contacts. If you do good work, the word gets out. I have a couple of side products that started out as gift makes that I could pump out fast if I needed an income boast and always have a few on hand when I get an order, since these are from scraps I don't have to invest to do em but I make sure that my logo and E-mail address is decaled on them to build up brand awareness.


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## Zelbar (Sep 14, 2008)

I am on the edge of going at it full time. Currently I have been doing it part time for 5 years selling at a nice farmers market and last year I did 50k in sales. Every year the sales have increased and the number of special orders I get have grown quite a bit. I am even starting to get orders from around the world from my website. 
Some of the things that I think have worked for me over the years.

First Get your product in front of people, don't rely on just a webpage to sell your products.. On a nice Saturday we have 20,000 people go through the farmers market I attend. That is a lot of eyeballs for my $50.00 expense and well worth it for me. I am also there most every week except for January that I take off. So when people are looking for a gift for a wedding or something they come and see me and know that I will be around. I have lots of people that show up at the booth and say "I have been looking at these for two years, I have the money now to buy one" Being there all the time I think is a must, I look upon it as my once a week store.

Second Keep up the quality. When we first started we decided on two things. Build practical item that people will use instead of just dust collectors and to build them well. People often say that they did not expect to find such high end products at a farmers market. A lot of times people will look at the other guys product made of pine, not sanded, not nicely finished and come over and buy mine that is make of Walnut or Cherry, smooth and nicely finished for 5 times the cost or more. They can already buy the cheap stuff at Walmart. Be Different.

Be picky about what you sell. I sell a lot of different things but I pick stuff I can make a profit on. If something is going to take me $40 in wood and take 10 hours to build and I can only sell it for $200 then I am not going to build it. Do things you can batch out, think about your processes and how you can improve them and dump the things that are not selling well enough and replace them with other items.

Build a relationship with your clients. I have lots of clients now who come to me when ever they need a gift or something for their home. I also keep in touch with them through a e-mail newsletter a few times a year to remind them I am still around. People love to deal with the artist. I find selling my product myself has great advantages over having it on a store shelf. It of course has some disadvantages as well like the time involved.

These are just a few of my opinions on selling your products and I have many more that I may share one day. I know everyone is different and has different markets and economics where you are so these may not all apply to you, it is just what I think has worked for me so far.


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## Grampa_Doodie (Feb 9, 2012)

Several years ago I decided that I wanted to build an adirondack chair, so I started out by purchasing Norm Abram's plans. Other people liked my chair enough to want their own, so I decided to build many more for sale. I sold nearly every one of them right from my front yard.

The more I sold, the more tools I could buy to make my shop run more efficiently, and to make the chairs much quicker.

I think my final count ended up around 115 chairs, 60-65 foot rests, and quite a few tables to go with the chairs.

I didn't make a whole lot of money, but I sure ended up with a shop full of very nice toys!!


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## dtody (May 22, 2009)

I do turning and sell at a seasonal outlet on Washington Island, WI. I cut the trees, and process both lumber and blanks. Finally healthier, I'm putting out 15 turnings per week and doing some other projects, framing pictures with my wood, building wine racks and whiskey/wine boxes. My experience with pricing on consignment-if you see something similar for $100 expect $40, typical furniture markup. Art and crafts stores keep 30% to 50% of your sale price. The sell it yourself is fine, but remember sales tax if your state requires and faithful reporting. Keep track of all travels to the store for supplies and wood and in your sales efforts, but make sure the "business" grows in three years or so.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Russell, I hope to put a positive spin on this as much as possible. Like what you are doing, both my wife and I work in the shop we have founded and now is known as Top Quality Cabinets. Our only source of income is derived from the artistic skills we as a family possess when we create beauty in our shop. Both my wife and I love what we do for many many reasons and being our own boss is rather good.

Truth is, while I am living my dream that was birthed back in 2002, it has not come without major sacrifice. My wife is not a career lady so she has no real means to fall onto if we run short, which happens in a start up business. We opened our business July 2010. When running out of work in November 2010, we ended up homeless in December 2010 and moved into our rented shop (never told the landlord, we just had no where to go). Our shop had a restroom and that was it, there was no heat, no hot water heater, and my wife would warm up water in the microwave and we would bath out of a plastic bin. No Christmas tree, not much in the way of presents. And this was our home for my wife and I, my then 2 year old and 5 year old daughters. And since then, there have been many many more sacrifices made so that we could survive. Being a proud man, having some pride, I refused to allow my family to use public assistance of any kind, and we did not utilize credit. If we had no money, we just went without. Many times we would work 12 hour days 7 days per week, look inside our frigerator and realize we had no milk and no food and… NO MONEY  What we had, was each other, we stayed warm with blankets, we had our pride, we had LOVE…

Then I have friends making what is a so called "LIVING" doing woodworking or handyman stuff, and guess what, they just happen to have wonderful wives who have a nice career. The so called "LIVING" comes from their wives income while they are certainly having fun. I believe you are in that same category. The money you claim to need to meet your needs would barely cover our vehicle expenses. We spend around 200.00 per week in gas alone, then there is vehicle maintenance, vehicle insurance. Just last week I gashed my tire sidewall and since we haul we run 10 ply tires, guess what one cost???? I pay cash for everything so that would tell you we have older trucks that need things (more $$$$$$) from time to time. Then what about liability insurance and other business related expenses.

Many of the previous post have given you the 'Atta boy' or the 'pat on the back' for a job well done and I realize my post has not exactly done any of that for you. It is just that I live in a realistic world and know exactly what it means to make a living doing woodworking and the things you love to do. A man I loved as a child once told me, "Jerry, find something you will love to do in life and you will not have to 'work' another day in your life, find something you don't like and you will have to 'work' the rest of your life". In doing what we love, literally we have been on what I would term as a vacation from 'work' since 2010, albeit with some major sacrifices along the way.

To give you an idea of what we do I will include two pictures from our most recent job:


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## j1212t (Dec 7, 2013)

That is an inspiring story Jerry. You and your family are tough people There is not many people like you. You a fan of Dave Ramsey by any chance?

In any case your sacrifices are hopefully starting to pay of now? Must be great to work with no payments, especially once the orders start coming in more regularly.

Your story is also the reason I am not planning to start woodworking as a career yet. Statistically like 95% of small businesses fail within first 5 years. So one must make damn sure he or she can survive if it does fail. You sure fit the bill in survival, I hope in a few years you will be living like no one else, but on the better side of the equation.


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## TheWoodenOyster (Feb 6, 2013)

Amen to this. Bidding a small job right now where I will be adding some swinging gate doors to a cash register in a retail store. Not exactly fine woodworking, but it does involve wood (in plywood form) and it is lucrative. My biggest commission yet was basically three large glue ups of massive oak planks that sat on steel metal tube bases. They wanted the rustic look and that is what worked. I quoted what I wanted and they paid it. Whatever you gotta do.

I will say this… I feel like metalworking skills are second in line to woodworking skills and terribly necessary for many things in woodworking. You don't have to be a blacksmith or anything, but basic welding and grinding skills can take you a long way. As much as I love wood, sometimes you just need a little more shear strength. That is where the metal comes in.

Keep it up!


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## Helga (Jan 26, 2012)

I am a retired teacher and presently own and operate a custom woodworking business. The business is now 13 years old. I wanted to add to this forum as my situation is a bit unique. First, I know that I could never make a living doing what I do. Fine furniture makers in my area have had to venture out in other directions. Handyman services; however, are quite a different matter. It is a necessity not a frivolity so you are in high demand if you do quality work. Unfortunately, I do not have the skill set nor the strength required to do some of the remodeling jobs mentioned in the former posts. If you have rudimentary electrical and plumbing skills as well, high demand is there. Word of mouth is often all that is needed. If you can travel to customers' homes, that is an asset. I have a wonderful shop and require all work being brought to me. Currently, I build fine furniture for customers as well as do restoration work and repairs. I stay as busy as I desire which is a great place to be.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

I would love to go at it full time but have no interest in being a jack of a trades type woodworker. I would prefer to specialize in a few things and become very good at them.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Jerry has been so I'll be authentic here:

Jerry deals with the reality of making a living as a cabinet man. He
has a wife (who is a partner a man can trust in business generally)
who has enthusiasm for the work and that's a big advantage. Maybe
you can trust a brother as much… or a son or your dad, but beyond
that there can be vulnerabilities to betrayal.

Also he is dealing with the realities of acquiring professional
machinery in order to crank out the work. I burned myself out
working on machinery that didn't really have the capacity to help 
me produce work fast enough and to a quality standard to compensate
for the wear on my body. This was frustrating. I had a 12" J/P,
an accurate cabinet saw, good band saw, a panel saw and a drum 
sander… but the stuff that drove me crazy was the long hours
of sanding and the installations and heavy lifting.

It wasn't enough. I'm sorry to say it. My bread and butter was
casework. I was not sufficiently organized in my life and my shop
was driving me crazy because I had to carry everything up and
down stairs with no help.

In re-assessing how I went about woodworking I've gone to
great lengths to seek out bargains on used machinery I could
fix up and put to work to produce better work, faster. I can 
send you a list if you want and it will blow your mind if you think 
about drum thickness sanders and cabinet saws as money makers.

The reason some of us serious guys get into buying old machinery
is we can leverage ourselves into having professional capacity for
modest cash-on-the-barrelhead investments. I have moved a lot
of truly heavy junk in the last couple of years and invested in a 
heavy routine of yoga and distance running to address the 
physical issues and for the time being I'm done acquiring machines.

I will note however, that if you're making less than $20 an hour
doing woodworking, consider flipping machinery as a sideline. the
problem with doing that too much is it can interfere with one's
growth as an artisan with high-end skills. The higher end skills help
you get more well-paid work and with that can come less heavy
lifting because you can then hire semi-skilled help or pass on
the jobs that break your body.


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## RusticArtistry (Sep 2, 2013)

Hi Lumberjocks,
Another option is to sell your pieces through an online shop. My shop, Rustic Artistry, features artisan-crafted furniture and decor for the rustic chic home. I invite you to take a look at the website and see if you think what you build would be a good fit. Here's a bit more information about how I work with my partner artisans:

I consider artisans for inclusion in Rustic Artistry's online gallery based on the following criteria:

-Unique designs, the more one-of-a-kind, the better. This is not the place for a basic log bed.
-Items should complement lodge or cabin decor
-You must be able to "recreate" a previously made item utilizing similar materials and specs, so that the finished piece is comparable to the one shown on the website
-Have reasonable lead times and ability to ship directly to the customer
-Can supply good quality photos of items, if not already on the artisan's own website
-Provide wholesale pricing or a commission on established retail prices

In return, I will promote your work on rusticartistry.com and via Pinterest, Facebook ads and email. I provide exposure for your work to interior designers, architects, bloggers, print media, my customer base and homeowners who love the rustic style.

You can see the website at http://rusticartistry.com/ and contact me at: [email protected]


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## johnsl (Mar 27, 2013)

Hi Russell, I've been retired for over six years and although I don't need the money, I make enough to support myself and my family off my hobby. The secrets to success:
1. Be prepared to give up your hobby and look at it as a business.
2. You must know how to sell what you make. It doesn't matter what you make if you can't get it sold you have inventory but no sales. Develop a simple presentation and practice it over and over.
3. Pick products that sell in your area. Snow sleds won't sell in Florida, but Corn Hole boards will.
4. Once you find a product that sells set up your shop to produce it efficiently. Work on trying to get the cost of production as low as possible.
5. Until you have a product that you know sells forget the craft shows. The good one are to expensive and the bad ones don't have customers. Remember time is money and if you spend 3 days at a bad show you could have been making product to sell.

Since I retired from a 45 year career in the soft drink business I started a small frame shop. I gave it up because it turned into a business and it almost killed me. I grew it into a $3,000,000 a year business doing shows and malls, had 35 employees and when I left I gave it to them and 2 years later it closed.

Go luck and God Bless you. My Dad use to say "It's funny, the harder I work the luckier I get."

The last advice I can give you is, put together a SIMPLE business plan follow it and when you reach your goal be satisfied and enjoy it. It's a lot more satisfying to mange a small business then grow one out of control.

John [email protected]


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## nineiron (Sep 28, 2013)

Both Sam and I sell our wood turnings at Demonstrations and days like mothers day ect..
We work on the Lathes as well this draws in the public to have a lokolo.
We find this promotes sale of our turings.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

John, I'm in the exact same boat you are in, retired as well and what you say makes perfect since as I'm living that very scenario, I did the monthly market routine all last year and found that I do better selling online plus much less work also with the interest you pay to the providers that host your product you actually break even with it comes to booth rental, labor of setting up, hours in the sun, gas, millage, wear and tear on transportation etc… all these things add up, I've decided to leave the monthly shows alone and do my sells strictly online.


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