# Epilog Laser Projects



## philphoto (Jan 11, 2010)

*What I have learned by owning a laser engraver.*

This is my second year of owning an Epilog Helix 24 X 18, 50 watt laser. In this blog I offer my experience and insight in helping woodworkers who are considering buying, or have just bought, a laser engraver. I am not the greatest wood worker-just an average guy with some tools. 
When I saw a demonstration of the Epilog, I could see so many opportunities for wood working. Opportunities I never considered - until now. As a retired, disabled woodworker some tasks in the shop were a challenge, if not downright impossible.
In spite of a disabling cancer surgery, I still tackle some of the standard woodworking projects, but by a conservative estimate, I find I use the Epilog laser 50% of my shop time. Due to newfound capabilities, the laser is my favorite tool. With the laser in my shop, I was surprised to find my woodworking interests heading in unexpected directions. There are several limitations in laser work, but there are double the opportunities as well. Inlay, marquetry, and vector cutting are now part of the possibilities bringing, for me at least, creative fulfillment.
When I bought the laser I had hoped to help my son in his sign business. I was thinking in the right direction, but I was still limited in my horizons. Floundering about, it was discovered that no one was making patterns or plans for lasers. Most scroll saw pattern designers will not permit their art work to be used in any form with a laser. I blundered around until I came upon a more or less educational site "MakerBot Thingiverse" with Creative Commons licenses and open source thinking. Many of the patterns presented in Thingiverse are projects not really suited to woodworking. I was very discouraged to say the least. 
While searching through the files at Thingiverse I found the living hinge. What a fascinating concept! A vectored line of hairline thickness, in a digital pattern, guiding the concentrated laser to burn through ¼" thick plywood. In such a pattern the laser removes hairline thin strips of wood, much like a repetitive kerf in a bending board. The result is a sheet of ¼" thick plywood that bends in half like a notebook. If you want to see what develops with a vector cut plywood, look at these photos. Every cut made with a laser.

















I decided to give it a go. After considerable computer time, I had my first pattern ready. I ran the files in the laser and it came out surprisingly well. Several modifications were yet to come, but the novelty of the living hinge was total excitement. 
My son, dropped by after work to look at the living hinge I was raving about. Now it was his turn! He went wild and took the sample down to the local pub showing it around, where other business owners gathered. Word spread like wild fire, and folks were literally swarming into the shop wanting to see the living hinge they had heard about. A process to bend wood? Well, not quite but that was the rumor. One of the other businesses in our community saw the box and told us if we could bring it in under their budget, he would buy 175. We went to work on building a good working pattern. Two months and 12 days of laser time later, I am glad we took the job. 
We made a video of the living hinge. It will give you a great visual on what is possible. 



Next Part? Three facts about owning a laser


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

philphoto said:


> *What I have learned by owning a laser engraver.*
> 
> This is my second year of owning an Epilog Helix 24 X 18, 50 watt laser. In this blog I offer my experience and insight in helping woodworkers who are considering buying, or have just bought, a laser engraver. I am not the greatest wood worker-just an average guy with some tools.
> When I saw a demonstration of the Epilog, I could see so many opportunities for wood working. Opportunities I never considered - until now. As a retired, disabled woodworker some tasks in the shop were a challenge, if not downright impossible.
> ...


Good for you bud. Glad it's working out.


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## philphoto (Jan 11, 2010)

philphoto said:


> *What I have learned by owning a laser engraver.*
> 
> This is my second year of owning an Epilog Helix 24 X 18, 50 watt laser. In this blog I offer my experience and insight in helping woodworkers who are considering buying, or have just bought, a laser engraver. I am not the greatest wood worker-just an average guy with some tools.
> When I saw a demonstration of the Epilog, I could see so many opportunities for wood working. Opportunities I never considered - until now. As a retired, disabled woodworker some tasks in the shop were a challenge, if not downright impossible.
> ...


Thanks for the encouragement. With all the laser advertising in the woodworking magazines and catalogs, I know that more woodworkers will be considering a laser. I hope my hard learned lessons will help direct others when nothing is really available.


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## vcooney (Jan 4, 2009)

philphoto said:


> *What I have learned by owning a laser engraver.*
> 
> This is my second year of owning an Epilog Helix 24 X 18, 50 watt laser. In this blog I offer my experience and insight in helping woodworkers who are considering buying, or have just bought, a laser engraver. I am not the greatest wood worker-just an average guy with some tools.
> When I saw a demonstration of the Epilog, I could see so many opportunities for wood working. Opportunities I never considered - until now. As a retired, disabled woodworker some tasks in the shop were a challenge, if not downright impossible.
> ...


Very nice, Im looking forward to future projects.


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## Knotsobeardedww (Feb 27, 2011)

philphoto said:


> *What I have learned by owning a laser engraver.*
> 
> This is my second year of owning an Epilog Helix 24 X 18, 50 watt laser. In this blog I offer my experience and insight in helping woodworkers who are considering buying, or have just bought, a laser engraver. I am not the greatest wood worker-just an average guy with some tools.
> When I saw a demonstration of the Epilog, I could see so many opportunities for wood working. Opportunities I never considered - until now. As a retired, disabled woodworker some tasks in the shop were a challenge, if not downright impossible.
> ...


i recently just bought a 35 watt universal and am very pleased with it trying all sorts of things and learning leaps and bounds. second piece of tech out here first being the CNC hopefully between the rest of the shop and these two we can turn some good profit . i look forward to reading more on this series.

Mike R.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

philphoto said:


> *What I have learned by owning a laser engraver.*
> 
> This is my second year of owning an Epilog Helix 24 X 18, 50 watt laser. In this blog I offer my experience and insight in helping woodworkers who are considering buying, or have just bought, a laser engraver. I am not the greatest wood worker-just an average guy with some tools.
> When I saw a demonstration of the Epilog, I could see so many opportunities for wood working. Opportunities I never considered - until now. As a retired, disabled woodworker some tasks in the shop were a challenge, if not downright impossible.
> ...


It's a very nice piece. Well done.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## philphoto (Jan 11, 2010)

philphoto said:


> *What I have learned by owning a laser engraver.*
> 
> This is my second year of owning an Epilog Helix 24 X 18, 50 watt laser. In this blog I offer my experience and insight in helping woodworkers who are considering buying, or have just bought, a laser engraver. I am not the greatest wood worker-just an average guy with some tools.
> When I saw a demonstration of the Epilog, I could see so many opportunities for wood working. Opportunities I never considered - until now. As a retired, disabled woodworker some tasks in the shop were a challenge, if not downright impossible.
> ...


Mike R. I wish you luck with your new laser. They certainly can be money makers. Depending upon your goals and plans there are lots of options for sure. Try looking at some of the projects at http://www.makecnc.com/welcome.php
or at http://www.laserpatternwerx.com I think there are a few other pattern shops. Plus the fact that many laser owners are using their lasers for cutting small very precise pieces. I get precision that I never would have believed. Plus you can take standard designs and cut the patterns using a router. My next blog post will be covering this. I get very precise shapes and very smooth cutting that I can not get with a band saw or scroll saw.

Phil


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## philphoto (Jan 11, 2010)

philphoto said:


> *What I have learned by owning a laser engraver.*
> 
> This is my second year of owning an Epilog Helix 24 X 18, 50 watt laser. In this blog I offer my experience and insight in helping woodworkers who are considering buying, or have just bought, a laser engraver. I am not the greatest wood worker-just an average guy with some tools.
> When I saw a demonstration of the Epilog, I could see so many opportunities for wood working. Opportunities I never considered - until now. As a retired, disabled woodworker some tasks in the shop were a challenge, if not downright impossible.
> ...


helluvawreck : Thank you for your nice comments.

Phil


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## philphoto (Jan 11, 2010)

*Before You Buy A Laser*

*Before You Buy A Laser-There are three things to consider when selecting a laser: *

*Size Matters.* A lot! The larger the bed the more copies of a piece you can make saving reload time. Also, many jobs need to be produced on a larger bed laser. The 18" X 24" is fine for a large percentage of the market. Some of the higher priced cabinet doors, skateboard decks, and furniture need to have a large bed laser. If I had it to do over, I would have purchased the largest unit Epilog makes.

*Power Matters.* A lot! The higher the wattage of the laser tube, the faster your speed when you cut or engrave. At the going national average rate of $1 per minute, every minute you can deduct from production time is that much more profit or margin available to compete on price. Using Epilog's own materials, they point out that one machine can engrave 22 sets in two hours and the other can produce 30. That is about $1.50 per unit difference. Even if I am just doing this as a hobby, the time for a project can be considerable. This living hinge box job was 175 boxes and it took 12 days at 10 hours per day. Not a lifetime but long enough to be boring once tedium sets in. The following photos are sampling of the boxes we have made using this laser.



















*Forget Faster and Easier.* I mentioned earlier that we spent "considerable computer time" making the pattern. I had 20+ years of graphic design behind me, my son has the same, and both of us are expert in CorelDraw, and Adobe products. Many laser owners have to acquire at least some skill in a drawing program. My son started www.laserpatternwerx.com for the simple reason that computer time is, or can be, long and tedious to perform and to learn. Recovering the expense of computer software and time is a huge challenge. Many laser owners do not have the art background or time to develop new patterns. LaserPattern Werx.com has patterns that took 20 to 30 hours of computer time plus two or three test runs to make the item correctly. 
What is the advantage of using a laser? You can make repetitive items in quantity whether you are tired, or feeling charged; the item comes out the same. Be sure that you will NOT compete with China and the volumes that their workers can produce. You will not put the scrollsaw or pyrography craftsman out of business. The laser products are not similar enough to pass one off as the other. You will be able to create products that have precision that is humanly impossible. Precise to .001 of an inch time after time, in my opinion is beyond human ability. Cutting a living hinge, in my opinion, is not possible by hand. Cutting box joints, by hand, tight enough that they snap together and do not require glue (though I use glue always) is not probable. If you have a product like a box and want to make the same thing, but with different alterations or decorations each time, the computer will save time on the repeat end, and the product can be made to the same level of workmanship. This video is of an Easter basket made of wood. Like the photo below. It will give you another idea of what can be cut and engraved on the laser.














Keep following this blog for more updates, I will keep focusing on woodworking and using a laser. I will cover adhesives, inlay, alternate materials and more. 
Until next time!


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## jneen (Feb 7, 2015)

philphoto said:


> *Before You Buy A Laser*
> 
> *Before You Buy A Laser-There are three things to consider when selecting a laser: *
> 
> ...


Thanks for your info ! I am considering a laser cutter. I am cautious on spending the money right now. I used one at a shop and they charge me $1.50 per minute to cut. That is really adding up. They use the Full Spectrum Laser Cutter, it's run off of a program called Inkscape.


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## philphoto (Jan 11, 2010)

philphoto said:


> *Before You Buy A Laser*
> 
> *Before You Buy A Laser-There are three things to consider when selecting a laser: *
> 
> ...


Thanks for reading and your comments. Inkscape (open source-free), Adobe Illustrator (not free!) Corel Draw (not free but most used for laser work). will all do the job. Just use what you are comfortable with. I like Epilog but the brand is the priciest out there. I will say I think you get what you pay for. There are several lasers on the market, and Epilog had a sizeable support program.
What is the primary product that you want your laser to do?


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## Involute (Jul 21, 2015)

philphoto said:


> *Before You Buy A Laser*
> 
> *Before You Buy A Laser-There are three things to consider when selecting a laser: *
> 
> ...


I've been emailing with a guy in my town who has a 45W Epilog Helix for sale. The story is he's selling it for a friend who got it used in 2006, and who's never used it since. Fishiness aside, do you have any tips for how I should evaluate the machine to determine if it's in good working order? I'm new to lasers (but not tools or machinery).

Also, I'm particularly interested in cutting MDF and acrylic. Have you tried cutting these materials with your 50W machine? If so, what's the thickest you've cut each type in one pass, and at what speed?

Thanks.


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## philphoto (Jan 11, 2010)

philphoto said:


> *Before You Buy A Laser*
> 
> *Before You Buy A Laser-There are three things to consider when selecting a laser: *
> 
> ...


Varify how old that machine is. Get the serial number and call Epilog. They will help you get an idea on service and needs. Right off the top I would be very cautious! A laser that old is due for a laser recharge. If it was done recently in the last 18 months you could be OK. A laser tube is not cheap. My 50 watt is $2300. A tube depletes due to time not usage. If it has been moved it might need alignment of the mirrors, not expensive but time consuming. The other thing is the belts will be old, and the servo or stepping motors may be out of service. My best guess is that you might be ok but I would be reluctant. 
You can call Epilog and they have rebuilt lasers for a nice savings. All with a warranty. I hope that helps some.
Phil


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## philphoto (Jan 11, 2010)

philphoto said:


> *Before You Buy A Laser*
> 
> *Before You Buy A Laser-There are three things to consider when selecting a laser: *
> 
> ...


Sorry! I forgot to answer ALL your questions. Yes it will cut MDF. 1/8" all day, 1/4" yes but very slow. Acrylic yes! All day! 1/4" is about the thickest I would go, but I have done 3/8". Cast acrylic and not extruded. These machines are very capable and you can do things that make our CNC router look weak. BUT there are limits and it takes a while to learn how to use it best. Go to the Epilog site and see the "Sample Page". Lots of ideas of what can be done.
Phil


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## Involute (Jul 21, 2015)

philphoto said:


> *Before You Buy A Laser*
> 
> *Before You Buy A Laser-There are three things to consider when selecting a laser: *
> 
> ...


Thanks for your thorough replies.

> Get the serial number and call Epilog.

Will do.

> Right off the top I would be very cautious!

I will be, but I figure if the price is right and the machine just needs some new parts, but is otherwise in good shape, it could be worth it.

The seller doesn't seem to know much about it and claims to be able to run some sort of demo (it's connected to a PC), but that's it. I was wondering if there's some sort of test file I could load into Corel that maybe prints a circle of known radius I could check for circularity. Maybe it also prints some other figures at a range of speeds and powers so I could tell at what combination it cuts through, say, a piece of 1/8" MDF I can bring. Does that sort of thing exist? If not, could you create it? I'd be happy to pay you for your time.


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## philphoto (Jan 11, 2010)

philphoto said:


> *Before You Buy A Laser*
> 
> *Before You Buy A Laser-There are three things to consider when selecting a laser: *
> 
> ...


Again I suggest calling Epilog. They are great folks and will not mislead you in any way. I believe they have a test page and they can explain it better. I would not want to produce anything that might be used incorrectly O misleading. Epilog sales department would know what best to use. Would not be surprised if they know the machine right off.

How much is he asking for the laser?

try this link for ideas https://www.epiloglaser.com/resources/sample-club.htm


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## Involute (Jul 21, 2015)

philphoto said:


> *Before You Buy A Laser*
> 
> *Before You Buy A Laser-There are three things to consider when selecting a laser: *
> 
> ...


> How much is he asking for the laser?

$12K.


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## philphoto (Jan 11, 2010)

philphoto said:


> *Before You Buy A Laser*
> 
> *Before You Buy A Laser-There are three things to consider when selecting a laser: *
> 
> ...


Do check with sales tomorrow. I think that is a bunch too high. I bought my 50 watt 18" X 24" on a show special for $17,000-if memory is correct. They probably bought it when the entry cost was much higher than it is today. Not trying to take anyone's side against another, but do ask Epilog.

BTW:The bed size is just as important as the wattage.


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## Involute (Jul 21, 2015)

philphoto said:


> *Before You Buy A Laser*
> 
> *Before You Buy A Laser-There are three things to consider when selecting a laser: *
> 
> ...


I wasn't going to pay more than $10K even if the machine didn't need anything. If it needs a tube, belts, etc., that would just knock it down more. I haven't been able to find many of these locally, and I wouldn't buy one I couldn't inspect first.


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