# Dang it, what sells?!



## pashley

ok, very frustrated guy here.

I've had my site open for about a year now, and have sold….nothing! Obviously, that is disappointing and frustrating to me. Especially since I have (what I think) is a good-looking and user friendly website, and products that are decent and fairly priced.

I guess at least one of those ingredients is screwed up; what I think is correct really isn't. But which one(s)?

I'm not looking to make a living off this website, but God, I'd like to sell a couple of things a month for some extra money.

Maybe people just don't pay around $400 for a nice clock; maybe that price point is too little (see "$5,000....for a stationary box")

Whatever the issue is, product, price or website, I just don't have the right formula in place to sell things. Other guys do it, I can too.

I have a great idea for a cutting board (yes, yet another cutting board), that is more than your usual glued-up pieces of scrap; I can make them fairly quickly, as you can just glue up a bunch of scrap, say 18" long, and just slice of a 1" piece as a board (like slicing cheese), and then sex it up the way I'm thinking.

But again, the question is…will it sell?!

Can anyone comment on my site and stuff, and what might sell instead of what I have?!


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## Mario

How many hits do you have every day and how does you site rank on the search engines?

You will find out that there are a bunch of ways that you can increase your hits and that can pay off big time.
ie. search tags ect.

It sounds like the woodworking part is done, now you may need to focus on the technical side.


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## pete79

What sort of advertising are you doing? Word of mouth, links on other websites, etc?


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## Kindlingmaker

One of the things that "maybe" is not helping is that your website is listed as a Social Website and a lot of computers have security filters not allowing access to these. Keep sending the magazines photos and write ups on your work. There was an article in one of the mags recently about building a clock and named the company that sold the parts, the parts company is now back logged two months…


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## DaveHerron

Your experience is "normal". Most internet businesses fail. It is extremely difficult to start a business on the web without understanding how internet search engines work and building and maintaining your site to take advantage of the search algorithms. You've got a professional looking website and there is nothing wrong with your price point or quality but I'm guessing you've really done very little to market the site. I suggest you start your business as a merchant on eBay and Amazon.com. Just because you have found other clock sites on the web does not automatically equate to profits being made by the other sites.


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## dennis

I've had a similar experience. I've seen lot's of web sites and talked to lots of artist and I just have to conclude most of what we see is just smoke and mirrors. I've checked out the sales of people on ebay and esty and they are very low usually with very low prices. I think of them as hobby prices. They work out to about $5.00 an hour after constructions and sales. You will get lot's of advice on how to do it right and I'm sorry I think most just works out to more ways to waste your time….now go out and do what I think can't be done because I'm not following my own advice. Another show in May….maybe this one will be different.


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## lew

http://webdesign.about.com/cs/promotion/a/aaaagoogle.htm

http://articles.sitepoint.com/article/link-popularity-site

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/380758/generatingfreetraffichits3_tips.html

http://searchenginewatch.com/webmasters


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## pashley

Under the search term mission clocks>

3rd result on Yahoo
38th on Google 
4th on Bing

Obviously, the big hangup is on Google.

*Kindlingmaker:* I didn't understand what you meant "is that your website is listed as a Social Website" - where do you see that?


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## SteveMI

Pashley,

I went to website and read the woods you are using. The pictures are not doing you justice. Might want to consider having some professionally taken with a zoom to show them off more.

The Keene is my favorite, but the tile detail isn't able to be appreciated. It looks like dust on the top of it, although I know it is just reflected light.

I think the price point is right and wording is good. You need some better pictures.

Steve.


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## pashley

Steve, I take the pics myself. I'm using decent equipment - a Nikon D40 with a tripod, and outdoors lighting. I also use a white back drop that extends into the foreground - same as pros use. I've also shown the products in settings. What am I missing?!


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## pashley

- not to mention, I was the manager of a commercial photo lab, and I worked at Kodak - both for 4 years.


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## KnotWright

Patrick, Are you selling these locally, or just via the internet? I'm a little more fortunate in that I actually have a storefront to sell things out of. I don't get a huge amount of foot traffic, but those that stop in usually pick up one or two things along with a business card.

I've actually started approaching some small stores in the surrounding areas to either stock my things, or sell them on consignment.

Word of mouth is my strongest advertising, I'd say 90% of all my business is done with referrals. The website is a great tool, but I think of it as only a small part of the overall plan to stay successful. You might want to search out some mission catalog companies that would showcase your work, its very impressive, sounds like it just needs that "spark" to get it selling the way you want. I'd say look at all your options not just the internet, with that said I do have you bookmarked to tell customers that are interested in Mission items.

James


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## pashley

James,

I've been thinking about this; I don't think you can appreciate the item unless you have it right in front of you, and agree, I should try to get it into some local stores. I live in a large area, Rochester, NY, so I should be able to find some stores!


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## SteveMI

Pashley,

Please don't take any offense to my comments about the pictures. I would not change the current ones at all, the settings are very complimentary to the clocks. It is just that the true wood and craftsmanship aren't shown off as much.

Your coffee table views are example of what I was commenting on for the clocks. The closeups of the end and tiles really give the person looking a feel for the piece. On the Keene, a closeup of the contrasting woods in one upper corner and closeup of the tile would be more information to the potential customer.

Think about this; tell them in text what the exciting details are about your craftsmanship, show specific pictures that show those exciting details and then remind them in the price section about what they saw.

Buyer may not know what in the world Paduak is or a reversed embossed ceramic tile. Couple closeups of them can put it in perspective.

Steve.


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## bruc101

James, like pashly said..get your products in some stores. Without my dealers I would be a sitting duck as far as the furniture end works. My cabinetry and design business is 63 years old inherited from my family..word of mouth from pleased customers, builders, and people riding by my shop supports that end of the business.
I have three business web sites started in 1994 and SEO'd into the internet on a weekly basis each for a different aspect of my business. I have over 400 excellent back links that actually send the hits to my sites, not the search engines, that took a couple of years to get. It takes my time and effort to market my sites but…do people actually buy off of them?...very seldom. What they do is give my business exposure just like a store front. When you have a product and the price starts getting close to the hundred dollar and higher range my experience has taught me that it's the serious buyers that will buy from me not your everyday wish I had that buyers. I build serious cabinetry and furniture and it's expensive and my shop and dealers are in areas where serious buyers are. I recently built a farm table to go in a wine tasting room near me. I put the table in unfinished, turned legs and planked curley maple top and was to get the table back this week to finish it. The lady called me Saturday and said not to worry about finishing the table because someone saw the table and bought it just like it was for more than the initial price we were going to ask for. Build me another one and I'll carry your money to you on Monday.
Direct exposure in a public place sold that unfinished table where people go to spend money. Market your product other than your web site and you may be surprised how your clocks will sell for you. Good Luck.


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## pashley

*SteveMI:* No offense taken, Bud; I guess I was like, "What else can I do?!" Agreed, about the closeups, especially of the Keene. Will do.

*bruc101:* Having the actual piece in a store is also good for impulse buying too. The website, it seems, is more like an interactive business card, at least for what I'm doing. Maybe people won't shell out this kind of money on a product sight unseen, and who can blame them?

So I think my game plan will be to do a little tweaking on the website, in terms of the menu, and adding some close-up pics, and more importantly, getting the product in front of faces in the real world.


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## darryl

Pashley - I've got an Etsy store along with a website to try and sell some wine bottle stoppers. It's seeing this kind of stuff: stuffed bunny head that keeps me convinced my work will eventually sell when seen by the right people. the trick is to get those right people looking at my wine bottle stoppers! I'm showing some of my work to a local retail shop tomorrow.

and I think the same goes for you.


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## craftsman on the lake

Of business's I've started and stopped over the years, some have worked out and others have bombed. What I did come to find out though is that the website is like a brochure. You've got to hand out brochures or get someone to hand one to a customer for you. The website itself generates no/little business. But, it's a great tool to direct people too who come to you or someone you sold to.
Some people do have some luck though on places like ebay, etsy, and amazon.

In the late 70's I did manage to sell a dozen acoustic guitars that I made. But, I had a network of people on the college campus. When I left college, guitars stopped selling. Today, I can put $2000 worth of work in an instrument and you can find a commercial one and comparable one for half that. And you can find a surprisingly good one that you'll love for $400, probably made to extremely close machine tolerances in Japan.

And I'm beginning to feel that high quality woodworking is becoming sort of like the art world. Thousands of starving artists for each successful one. People can buy a print at a store for a fraction of the original. People can buy an actually decent copy of a woodworkers coffee table for a fraction of the real thing. You can be a collector and own some Gainsborough's or you can purchase one that the average person wouldn't know the difference. You can pay a premium for furniture that is painstakingly handmade and can be passed down. Or you can purchase a machine made facimile that the average person wouldn't know the difference and save a bundle. Most people don't care to pass down or get other people's furniture. They've got a house full of stuff they've collected over the years when you're dead anyway. They just sell it. Look in the paper at all the estate auctions. They do it all the time.

Cynical? maybe. But that's it from my reality. I've never tried to make a living or even expected a partial income from woodworking. I keep it personal. An occasional commission were I really don't make much after all the effort, or for friends and family. As a hobby it stays fun.

And yes, I know.. of course there are exceptions. If you're one of them Bravo.


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## pashley

*SteveMI:* I've add two pics per your request. Check it out.

*darryl:* I've had an Etsy account for several months. Nothing. Felt animal heads selling! OMG.

*Craftsman on the lake:* I agree about the website-as-a-business-card notion. About this cheaper quality stuff - yuck! I was out shopping for a couch yesterday, and wandered into the dining table for ideas - while some of the designs were decent, the materials (some odd wood; nothing native, like oak, cherry or maple) and the finish (especially) was crap. I'm guessing construction is on the same par. People still get what they pay for. Yes, you're getting a dining table and four chairs for $499 - see you back here in 5 years. Guess I just see things differently since I build the stuff now.

You know, there's a saying, "If you want to live with the classes, build for the masses; if you want to live with the masses, build for the classes." - that is to say, if you want to be rich, build something the masses can and will buy; if you want to live with the masses, build for the upper classes.

Interesting.


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## MikeGager

those felt animal heads are awesome!


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## closetguy

So what's your traffic like? If the traffic is low, it doesn't make any difference how nice the pictures are. I think the site looks fine and has a very professional look about it. It is going to be difficult to sell your clocks if know one knows you are there.

I use Google Analytic to monitor the traffic on my site(s). I can see the number of visits, where they came from (referred), and how long they stayed. This helps me set a base line so I can gauge my efforts. I use Flickr, Twitter, and a bucket full of blogs dedicated to handcrafted products to help drive traffic to my site. It's all about blogging your products and getting other high traffic sites to blog about your products. The "Build it and they will come" idea doesn't work with Internet sites unless you pay big bucks for advertising.

I can't tell if you are running Wordpress or Joomla. I use Wordpress with a plug in called Google XML Sitemap that updates Google, Yahoo, and MSN with sitemap information automatically.

Get listed on sites like Try Handmade, The Handmade Gift Guru, etc. There are many more like these, I just can't remember them all off the top of my head.

Sign up with Google Friend Connect so every time you are on someone's blog, and if they have a Friend Connect link, click on it to become friends. Make sure your Friend Connect account links to your web site.

Search for blogs that are dedicated to handmade and ask the owner/author to feature your product. They are always looking for blog articles to add content to their site.

You have to constantly work at promoting your site or stuff just won't happen. When I am blogging and socializing with others to promote my site, my visitor rate will run about 40+ visits a day and things will start selling. But, when I am out doing shows for a few months and ignore the site, my visits will drop to about 1-3 per day. You get out of it what you put into it.


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## closetguy

This is also an interesting web site http://handmadebattlefield.com/


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## rbterhune

Well, I'm a new woodworker so I usually can't offer advice on this site yet…BUT, my wife is a wedding photographer and I do her website and blog. Google is King…and to be on top of Google is difficult, especially in a competitive environment. I've been working for 18 months to get her site only as high as #31 in the Nashville area. We're recently seeing movement because we now know that fresh content is very important, as are inbound links. Google looks at inbound links from high pagerank sites as a major factor….so, get your site links from other woodworking sites and blogs. Comment on other blogs offering up advice regularly and place your link in the comment. Use directories such as dmoz.org or yahoo's directory, both of which are still used by Google to determine importance of a page. Make sure your keywords make sense and that your text includes those keywords. Start a page on Facebook and post your work there regularly…include links to your site. Do woodworking shows in your area, etc.


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## closetguy

You will never get on top of Google, or even the first page, unless you pay for it. I was the very first entry at the top for the first three months of 2007 with my closet company. It generated $2200 in sales, but cost me $4000 for the ad words. Cross promoting from other sites is free and just as effective.


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## rbterhune

closetguy…it's possible, just very, very difficult if you don't have a product that appeals to the masses. Furthermore, I believe he's gone national with the business. His keywords might get him higher with google if he focuses his site on the regional search…ex. "custom woodworking in Nashville" rather than just "custom woodworking"...just my 2 pennies.


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## DerekL

Pashley, managing a photo lab isn't the same as being a photographer.

That being said, your photos seriously lack 'pop'. Your items are generally light colored against a white background, which makes them hard to look at. The lighting is so so at best, and many of the pieces appear dull and dusty. I notice you mention your camera and lighting - but nothing about your post processing. In the digital world, post processing is a vitally important step.

The front page of your website is frankly, dull. Again, no 'pop', nothing to engage the viewer/reader. Your lead text tells almost nothing about what you can do for the customer, just what your philosophy is as an artiste. There's no pictures of your work on the front page - its all hidden in the easy to miss menu box in the upper right rather than front and center.


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## Dez

There was one primary thing I learned helping my father sell his saddles. 
First a little background - -
Dad was a saddle maker starting in the early 40's, and after 40 years was one of the best I have ever seen and I have seen a large number of them. 
In the mid 90's I helped him build a website, primarily to help increase his exposure and get him known in some different markets. 
At the time he had his shop in the Klamath Falls, OR area, a place where folks still use horses. The primary problem was that the market in that area was of a lower income bracket BECAUSE the folks that used horses were ranchers, cowboys etc. and the pay scale isn't very high. 
I knew he needed exposure to a different type of market - the hobby horseman, people who have horses because they have the money to be able to afford them, not because they needed them for work! 
His prices ran from ~ $1000.00 for a plain work saddle to $3500.00 for a fully tooled show saddle with silver accents. 
Meanwhile on the coast there was a gentleman that was getting upwards of $50,000.00 for a show saddle! His product was not near the quality that my father was producing, the tooling was not as well done the stitching was not as neat. 
Bottom line was the market itself. 
He had gotten into a market that included actors, bankers etc. that had the money to spend on a hobby. 
Of course now that my dad has passed on his work is finally getting those same kinds of prices, the saddles are now rare collectibles, even the work saddles and beat up old stuff he did early on that has seen years of use.


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## Dez

I recently received an email concerning a site for selling our types of product. I haven't yet had time to check it out. If any one else would like to here it is.
www.CustomMade.com
Here is the body of the email;
I was cruising around on the web searching for woodworking projects and came across your name. I wanted to reach out to see if you have heard of CustomMade.com. We are a web-based gallery for woodworkers to display their craftsmanship to consumers located at www.CustomMade.com. The site has been around for over a decade and gets almost one million visitors each year. Our average subscriber gets between 4,000 and 6,000 web page views a month resulting from their listing on our site. If you have a web presence, we will enhance it, if you are looking for web presence, we will be it. In today's economy, you have to get your work in front of your consumers and that is what we do.
I have much more information on our goals and stats to share with you, so please give me a call or simply reply to this email to hear more.


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## mattd

Interesting topic. It 's funny that you're asking this sort of advice from a group of people that would mostly rather build furniture than buy it online or anywhere else!

Here are a few observations I have. Please don't take this as any discredit to your work. I actually think you do beautiful work. I'm just not sure that the site reflects it as well, or maybe as "honestly" as it could and I don't think the problem is the photography really.

1. To me, your site gives an -impression- that you are (or are trying to be) a larger manufacturer rather than a small artisan and that maybe I should compare you to something mass produced that I could buy at a quality furniture store (which I know isn't true, but it just looks that way to me). Where's the sort of thing like a dark photo of you with a hand plane surrounded by wood chips in your small shop?

2. The site tries to hard. There is just too much copy on the front page. Is the free shipping and guarantee really all that important? Check out Tom Wetzel's page. It's just a photo of his chair with a menu on the side. It's not a great layout, but I've met Tom Wetzel and this site just gets to the point and just sort of "fits" with what Mr. Wetzel is all about. (I'd love to own one of his chairs someday. I won't be making chairs like that in my lifetime)

3. There is not much about you in the site, so I had no impression of what you're about. What makes your pieces stand out? How do you make them? What experience do you have? Check out the biograpny on Wayne Ignatuk's site.

Good luck!


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## closetguy

All that's well and good MattD, but biographies, wood shavings, and dark pictures won't make any difference if there are few, if any visitors to his site. Everyone is quick to pick and poke at his site, but I suspect there's not enough traffic of potential buying customers. It's a numbers game, the more visitors, the more potential sales. The clocks are beautiful and I'm sure there are consumers out there who would buy them. Pashley just needs to experiment with trying different ways to drive these customers to his site. But, don't experiment without having stats in place because you need to see numerical results from trying new marketing ideas.


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## bruc101

*Dez*..I get the same email as you do from CustomMade..about a dozen a month. It's a nice site for exposure if they take the hits they say they do. I think before I would pay to be listed with them I would contact some of the woodworkers and ask them how it's working from them.

*pashley *as I posted earlier everyone needs back links to their sites..this is the same thing as all the other fine posters are telling you to get linked with other sites and blogs..that is called back links. I would suggest you download a free version of Seo Studio at http://www.trendmx.com/
Study it and work with it especially the Links + and Top 10 Spy part of it. We started with this particular software and have updated to a pro version and it works for us. You would be surprised at what you find with it that can actually draw the hits to your site. I have a friend that uses another SEO software and he says it works for him and he gave me this link to download it. http://download.cnet.com/Web-CEO-Free-Edition/3000-10248_4-10190983.html
Hope this helps.


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## Hix

First, let me say I love your clocks. If I could cut a straight line, I would make clocks. None of this is intended in any way as criticism other than to suggest a way to help. You already got alot of advice on SEO and some basic layout/content tips so I took a different approach. It will not increase traffic to your site but might help keep them there. When I started my site, I had dozens of pairs of eyes review it and critique it. I asked them to "let me have it". Boy did they! (and still do!)

I am no expert but I have some thoughts. I spent some time reading your site. The precision you put into your craft needs to be reflected in your site. People are going to judge your work by what they see in your attention to detail on the site. They cannot physically inspect your work so they inspect what they can see. A couple of things I noticed were:

Home page: "My philosophy for my pieces? Style, Construction and Agelessness." It does not match the preceding paragraphs. "My philosophy is: Style, Construction and Agelessness" might be better.

Mission Clocks page: "You have your choice of three different types of movements (the actual timekeeping mechanism), and if you would like a pendulum (if applicable). Also, you have to consider if you'd like a chiming clock. Some people love them, some not so much!
Read it out loud…does it sound right? The second paragraph is repetative and anyone smart enough to buy your clocks will know what a movement is.

The Standard Package, which is the default option, has a quartz electronic movement. You can specify a pendulum to be included, if you wish (if applicable). These movements have no chimes - they are silent. They are run by either a "C" or "AA" size battery. There is no extra charge for the Standard Package; it is included in the price of the clock."

There are some punctuation and spacing problems. They drive some people crazy and take their attention away from your product.

Think about word choice a little; are your clocks built or created? Anyone can build, you create.

Like I said in the beginning, this kind of information will not get you more visitors but it might help keep them there.


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## JackBarnhill

I'm trying to figure out this whole web site/ecommerce thing myself. I took a quick look at your site and noticed that the only keyword listed on the home page is "mission furniture".

As bruc101 indicated, it looks like you may need to make some improvements to your SEO, Search Engine Optimization. At least adding additional, appropriate keywords like the type of items you make and your geographic location will make it easier for people searching for clocks in Rochester to find your site easier and generate more traffic in general.

I found a book that helped explain it all to me was eBootCamp by Corey Perlman. It's available from Amazon or local bookstores if you want to check it out first. It covers various internet marketing strategies including SEO. BTW I'm not affiliated with the book or the author. I just found it helpful.


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## bruc101

Good advice Jack…also, in the SEO software it lets you "spy" on your competitors per say that have top ratings in the search engines and will let you see their tags and back links, etc. Everyday when I check the stats on my sites Yahoo, Bing, and then Google in that respective order are where our search engine hits come from and make up about 25% of our hits. It's the hits coming from other sites (back links) that generates several 1000 hits a day for us and the other 75%. We also have Chat on our sites and try to work the Chat as often as we can, more or less during our peak hits of the day. We get quiet a few everyday talk to us in Chat and it does generate some business for us but you have to have the people visiting your site and looking for your products to work for you. There are a lot of free Chat programs to choose from. A good free stats site is http://www.elogicwebsolutions.com/basic-stats.html.
It will give you what, where, when and who is looking at your site. All you have to do is copy and paste the code in the html on the bottom of each page on your site and it starts working immediately. My hosting company has stats on it too but updates weekly not regularly like the Elogic site does. 
It's a lot of work to keep your site working for you unless you want to pay someone else big bucks to do it for you. The book Jack mentioned is worth reading. We've also found out that most people visiting our sites would rather send us an email with an email form on our site instead of a regular email and it also keeps the email scam away but we do give them the option.


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## RyanBrown

Where I live, several of our restaurants downtown feature works of local artisans. One restaurant in particular has everything from consignment art on the walls, consignment hand-blown glass vases, and yes, even fine handmade furniture on consignment. We also have a studio downtown where many of the artists rent space to work and can display their pieces. Once a month or so they have an open house, and lure customers with free wine, hors d'oeuvres and music.


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## gizmodyne

Your website is very nice. One suggestion as someone who lives in Bungalow Heaven in the heart of Pasadena near the Gamble House, I would not use the term "mission". We say Arts and Crafts 90% of the time, rarely using the term Mission. Most likely the audience for handmade items would search under Arts and Crafts Clocks. Including the words arts and crafts, bungalow, or craftsman in your site tags might help.


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## DerekL

Keep in mind that while getting people to the door is important, getting them through the door is even more so. SEO companies prey on people who mistakenly believe that high rankings and lots of hits equate to having a successful website. It doesn't matter if you have 10,000,000 hits a day on your home page, if they promptly turn around and leave.

*gizmodyne*: Mission and Arts and Crafts are two slightly different styles.


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## TraumaJacques

Hey Pashley,The questions you should be asking yourself are not what sell but rather who do I sell it to! 
What is my target market? How can I bring these people to my site or do I even want to sell from an internet based store?

Now this is simply my opinion and I am sure there are many flaws to my theory. However I have sold several pieces over the past years (I usually do not post commissioned piece on LJ due to privacy and Tax reasons) and have a few commissions lined up for this winter.
"One of a kind" pieces sells well to certain people. They enjoy knowing that they are the owner of a "unique" piece. Of course that comes with a certain price tag that the wealthy have no qualms with paying. Now I live not too far from you and the demographic should be similar, those who have money do not buy their stuff on the internet. They rather go to a boutique or a gallery. Antique shops will often let you display your work providing they get a certain percentage of the selling price. Try to get a booth at home shows or interior design conventions. Network with interior designers they have given me tons of work in the past .Real estate agents often buy pieces to furnish or dress a room for showings. 
Having said this I could not make a living out of my craft at this time but it sure is a nice supplement to my income. I also do not have the time to dedicate 8-10 hours a day in the shop.

You have great skills and talent do not limit yourself to the web based market. Don't under price your product and all you need is to sell one piece to a rich old lady and all of a sudden you will be overwhelmed with demands from her bridge club.
Hang in there.
Sincerely. Jacques


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## TraumaJacques

Oh! An after thought about your web site … make it more of a portfolio, so people can see your work and admire the workmanship and skills involved but let the contact you for pricing. This gives a human contact were additional details can be discussed like customizing a piece to fit their needs. 
Here is a link to one of my past instructors in furniture school. He is very successful in his style. http://www.mafurniture.com/
Later. Jacques


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## pashley

Wow, what a lot of advice! I asked for it, and I certainly got it! I was responding to each person individually, but since I was last on, a lot of people have commented, so can't really do that. But…

• I think there is a need to "warm up" the site. I used this white joomla template because I thought it was clean and professional looking, and it is. That's great for an accounting site, but probably not for a woodworking site. I'll work on getting a template with earth tones in it.

• Keywords and search optimization. SEO is black voodoo; finding the right combination to get a top spot on Google is like trying to figure out the recipe for Coke - it's a closely guarded secret. But, we do know that updating the site often makes it look like it's not a dead site. Talking with a colleague that does SEO, she told me about a client who was way down on Google's results, and by just adding an inspiring quote on the home page, and changing it daily, she got them to the first page of results. I'm trying that. I have one keyword phrase on their right now - but I just changed it two days ago. I had lots of keywords, but doing some research, found they didn't get all that many searches. "Mission Furniture" however, got a tremendous number of hits. We'll see how that does.

• Some asked about my traffic. Here's what happened in October: 434 unique visitors, 580 visits, 4234 pages, 38744 hits. Not too bad, I don't think, considering the website. Of course, more is always better. Getting higher on Google is crucial - have to work on that.

• Don't depend on the website for sales on this type of product; depend on local shops, shows, etc.

• Photography. I'm not a professional photographer. Having said that, I think I know a little bit about composition, lighting and post processing. I don't have the pro equipment I'd like to have - flash umbrellas, exquisite sets, etc. I do what I can with what I have. I am trying to get my cues however, from professionally done furniture store catalogs, such as Stickley.

• No one mentioned this, but I'm thinking I need to play up the furniture and other non-clock items more. People might land on my site, and think it's just about clocks, which it's not. I push the clocks because they are easier to make ( I have a really small shop), easier to store, easier to ship.

• I appreciate the mentions of the online craft-oriented sites, like Etsy - I'll surely look into them!


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## tncraftsman

Here are my random thoughts. Some of these points have already been touched on.

• Other than your website what else are you doing to market your product? i.e. are you visiting retailers, networking with local woodworkers, etc?
• Do you know your target market? i.e. who has the money and taste to buy your clocks
• Do you know how to reach your target market? They might not like to buy websites.
• Do you have any testimonials to advertise with?
• Are you buying adspace on relevant websites or print publications
• On SEO - it's a dark art but it's a good idea to make sure you have the basics coverd. Be wary of anyone who can guarantee positions. They might get you a top position for a short period of time but when The Google finds out you site is toast. New sites are "penalized" by Google so it might just take time. It's been some time since I've researched the SEO world so my advice may be dated?
• What does your business plan look like? Has anyone reviewed it? Have you utilized the free resources at the SBDC or SCORE?
• Metrics - Are you looking over your site stats with a microscope? There are books on how to analyze your stats but they may be dated.

Overall I'm very impressed with your site. I had bookmarked it some time ago as a reference to where I want to be one day. Keep it up!


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## swirlsandburls

Hi, I thought I'd add a somewhat different view. I think your work is very good indeed, and you can always dress up your site with extra work on photos, site design, and such. My personal experience is that when it comes to high quality wooden items, buyers want to touch it before they buy, unless they already know your work or you are are famous and have a following. So, I'd recommend a home furnishing designer's gallery where you can actually place some items. Your website serves to validate you as a designer; don't expect to sell with it.

You may want to try a art gallery look and feel on your site, which is what I am using: visit www.swirlsandburls.com. While visitors can buy if they desire, they rarely do.

Another thought is that while the Mission style has a following, it is a somewhat narrow design style. Either people like it or they don't. You may want to experiment a bit with a wider style offering just to see what happens.


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## MrsN

Personally I don't think that the web is the best method for selling high quality wood works. The people you are selling to want to feel the product, it is an emotional purchase. 
I have a friend who loves hand made jewelry, she has a growing collection of pieces that she picks up in stores. From art galleries, boutiques, consignment shops but she won't even consider esty or ebay. She wouldn't even buy from my esty store. 
I like the idea that your website is like an interactive business card or that it helps validate your work. I may do well to get repeat business and help you spread by word of mouth ("I love that clock you have" "thanks, check out the website of the guy who made it" kind of thing)


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## bruc101

swirlsandburls made a good comment on Mission furniture and it's following. The same is true with all styles of furniture. I have a dealer that sells nothing but Folk Art..she told me one time not everyone likes Folk Art furniture but the one's that do love it a lot. I have a dealer that sells nothing but Period furniture with a museum quality finish on it and a dealer that sells Period also and won't have the museum quality finish on anything in her shop but they all have their market covered with buyers that do love their products. I have one dealer that sells nothing but Period tables and her market varies on designs and finishes and it changes on her a couple times a year. When it does she has a sale on what's not selling and orders what is selling. I have no dealers that sell Mission mainly because it's not in their market where they make their money. Out of all the many years we've been in business we've made only one piece of Mission and that was a bed.
I think you need to find dealers within your market of Mission and try to put your clocks in their shops and or as swirlsandburls stated try a few more styles to back up your Mission.
As I stated earlier, it's not my web sites that sell my products it's my dealers, word of mouth and walk-ins. Without my dealers and word of mouth I would probably be looking for another job. It's also an ever changing market and I have to stay on top of it with my dealers to keep them happy so we're in contact with each other on a daily basis.


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## pashley

I have been in touch with a local shop that showed interest, as well as a similar shop in the mid-west. I'm also developing a line of cutting boards/serving trays unlike others, and possibly even wood book marks. The latter two will do well, I believe, at craft shows.

Regarding the comments about Mission, or Arts and Crafts style furniture. Keep in mind I don't really do your traditional, heavy, dark mission style stuff; my intent is to lighten up that look, while using lighter color wood/finishes and bringing in other styling elements, such as rustic, into the piece. I don't want to be Stickley; I want to be Stickley 2.0.


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## mynoblebear

participating in a forum like this is one of the best ways to get the search engines to recognize your site as being more relevant. The content is constantly changing on these forums which makes it more relevant to the crawler programs that sends out the spiders to crawl our sites. The key is to have people go to your site from a forum such as this one to move your site up organically in the rankings with the search engines. Getting more eyes looking at what you have to offer is key to translate into sales. It is simple for me to say all this however I have been trying to sell my furniture for 10 years without success and I have know idea why I can not sell a single piece.


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## SteveMI

Pashley - I have to give you a big thanks for this thread. The advise being thrown out is over whelming and I wouldn't know where to go in getting this much in one place. I just got two website domains which aren't up yet, but now have a huge to-do list before publishing them based on the excellent feedback you have been receiving.

Steve.


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## rozzi

Just my thoughts. I like your product and I like your site but I agree with some I don't think the normal buyer buys quality on the internet without reference or as a repeat customer. I think you need a store front and use your site to drive buyers to your store. Check out amanafurniture.com. I would probably not buy online from them but their site did drive me to their store and once in the store I had a hard time keeping my billfold in my pocket. Good luck. You a have a nice product, nice site and it deserves to work for you.


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## pashley

Thanks, *SteveMI*, I'm glad I started it too - it has opened my eyes to a lot of information, and hope others can benefit from it as well.


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## jhawkinnc

For my two cents, I think there's a lot of valid comments on these posts and I'll certainly take stock of these as I pull my own site together.

First, getting ranked as high as possible on Google is essential - they are the big dog of search engines these days. But you don't have to get there with paid ads…get a list of valid keywords and install them on your site. See what the "competition" on the high ranked sites that you're competing with are using. Getting your site mentioned on others' blogs and lists are also a great way to get Google to notice you. Perhaps us LJ'ers can start posting fellow LJ sites on our own. Google keys on the content of your H1 headline content - try elaborating a little more on these - something like "Custom made Mission Clocks - Perfect for your Living Room."

Regarding the photography on your site. I think the quality of the image you're taking is good. But…you're short changing yourself by cropping it to such a small size on your home page. The visual is key to your product (very nice stuff, by the way). You've taken a lot of time crafting the support verbiage that is on the home page but what viewers are going to be really interested in is "How is that clock going to look on my mantle?". Pictures are worth a thousand words. I'd double the size of your image gallery box, show more of your product, and show some in-use shots on a nice mantle. Sometimes, people need to be led by the hand to see what they really want.

Your site template is nice and clean but try adding a little color and warmth. Could be as simple as replacing the outer gray background with a tan color like we see here on LJs.

The other postings are right - if you build a site, they won't necessarily come. A web site is a great support tool to refer prospects to. You still need to make use of personal contacts and exposure of your products. With the type of products you're selling, I think you will find your best success by getting the actual product in front on the prospects. Whether you hit the craft show circuit, put something in a consignment/boutique shop, etc. Once people see the quality of your pieces firsthand, they will become believers.

Good luck and may you get slammed with orders in the near future.


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## mynoblebear

I am not sure ware my head was when I commented last on this posting. Going to each others web sites from this forum well not help out our organic rankings with google and other search engines significantly. I want to start over.

When a search engine tells it's crawler program to send it's spiders out to crawl lomberjocke.com the first thing they sea is the URL lumberjocks.com and then they proceed to find the content within this forum they do not see pictures all they see is text. When they see all of our URL's interacting with this forum in addition to all of the new constantly changing relevant content that we put in our postings the ranking of this forum moves up in the organic rankings of relevant websites that the search engines has in there data base. You can go to google and type in Woodwork Forums and this one will pop up on th first page. This forum did not pay big bucks to get there we all helped this forum get there.

Now what lumberjocks.com has done for us is they have allowed us to have a signature line that sites at the bottom of each and every posting that we have ever made hear. Now when the spiders crawl this forum and they sea that our URL is in this site five thousand times providing you have five thousand postings they-will go back to google and say this URL is very important we being google should move this URL up in the organic rankings. The goal is to be on the first page.

Now the second thing that that you can do for your rankings is to put a key word frase in front of your URL or web site address in your signature line, in this case something like Best Regards Clocks, Clocks, Clocks and then the URL. At any point in time you can change your signature line and promote another key word or key word fraze and or another URL.

I have let all of you now this because I can see that not very many people are using this asset to your benefit some of you have a huge number of postings however you do not have a web site. Just a suggestion you might consider helping one of your fellow woodworkers out that does have a web site and put a key word and there web site address for a couple of weeks to give the spiders time to sea the key word and URL in all of the postings that you have ever made hear and then change it to help another friend out.

I hope that I explained how this forum can help you move up in the organic rankings with all of the search engines that crawl this forum. You do not have to pay for organic generated rankings.


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## miles125

Woodwork is in the frills category. Nobody is spending money on frills right now.


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## daltxguy

My first impression was that your website was a blog page. I had to scroll down to see that you were selling something. So, suggestion #1, make the first page tell the whole story

The second thing I noticed is that there were names of products on the right hand side, but no picture…..so., more pictures! Maybe some more graphics to replace the text - thumbnails perhaps

And the third thing is all that white background - doesn't stand out.

The other big idea in marketing is 'tell a story'. Give a little story about the processing of the wood or the process of the construction or the story behind the design. Put people in your story…and then show your furniture in people's homes. Draw people in, get them interested and then make sure they have a way of capturing that idea or dream - make it easy for them to buy.

I find that if you give a reason for people to visit your site, then they linger and look around at what else there is - maybe even offer some free plans for one of your projects.

Otherwise, great products and I think the pricing is very reasonable.


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## OhValleyWoodandWool

Your products are certainly saleable, they look very very nice, design, craftsmanship, finish - everything. Maybe the wild wild web isn't the right place. Have you thought about approaching and selling through interior designers? high end indepenantly owned furniture stores? deigner showrooms? With your products this is the area I thing that I would pursue.

Doug


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## hObOmOnk

FWIW:

Website sales are passive.

Juried craft shows are active.
If you can make the transition to juried craft shows, your profits will soar or at least reveal your weaknesses.
You will get immediate feedback from your intended market and you will learn what sells and what doesn't.

Sites like this are for enthusiasts, not necessarily those who will buy your products.


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## pashley

Share a little tidbit with you guys.

My main work line is websites; it's one of the those things I do pretty well, but not really into - like most jobs I suppose. Anyway, went over to meet a client at her new coffee shop. I took one of my clocks, and thought I might ask her if she would display it along with my business cards. It's an upscale coffee shop, very homey, comfortable. As I was talking with her, she had mentioned how she wanted to get the community involved in the shop and so on to generate business, and she had several artisan things around - jewelry, paintings, photographs….

"OH REALLY?" I said….the wheels turning.

Bottom line, she let me display the clock right there as you come in the front door, business cards and all! I told her I'd give her a cut of the price, but she said no, that's fine! So hopefully, something will come of it…..


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## timpletcher

fascinating…. I love clocks!


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## ndillon

First off let me say that your craftsmanship looks fantastic. You have really great photos and art that plays well with the prices that you have set.

I think the problem you are running into is that your homepage reads like an about page and requires you to go searching around for your products. It comes across as a custom made type business. I feel you need to set your homepage up as a store.

Most web viewers do not take the time to actually search out what they want. If you don't capture them quickly you will lose them even faster. You will notice this in your analytics of your site traffic.

I would also suggest that you cross promote some of your less expensive office products as well on a site like etsy.com. It may not be the big seller than you are looking for but any sell Is better than no sells and it will generate a lot more traffic than search engines will.


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## asthesawturns

Maybe, its the quote of the day? how often do you change it? Just kidding, I would make up a nice sales flyer, with website info, and take a couple of them to a consignment store or 2, careful which ones, some are not so trustworthy. True they take a fee, out of the price they sell it for, but you might sell a couple, make sure they have more brocures than clocks so people can take one even if they don't buy one at the store, they will at least know how to contact you, also, they can pass them on to other people they know might be interested. You may only need to get them into some homes of people that have freinds and relative, to get the ball rolling. You can also try etsy, an independent crafts site, that handles the transaction for you.

The craft show thing is a good idea, it can get people to notice, everybody stopps everybody takes a brochure, not everybody buys. I did one, it cost $400, I spent another $150 to make a nice display and booth, I sold $430 worth of bowls. I had 4 stores interested in selling for me, and a guy that wanted to put me on his website ( was a scam, glad I didn't follow through on that). There a lot of positive feedback. I put a lot of time and effort into it, was a little dissapointed but I looked at it as a learning and exposure experience. It was worth it but Wouldn't do it again.


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## bobasaurus

I'd maybe come up with some cheap and quick wood trinket you can mass produce, then post it as a freebie or cheap item (with free shipping… this is important for some reason) on something like deals.woot.com to attract the masses. Giving away these things (or selling at a loss) may make some repeat customers and increase visibility of your business…. or it could do nothing and cost you for your time and work. Hard to say, but I've seen a few small businesses succeed this way (I check out that deals site from time to time).


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## rusticandy

After 5 years of a website (a rinkydink one) www.dovercanyonrustic- I have never sold anything on it- BUT i refer people to it regularly and clients mention that they visit it. Instead I sell eveything on commision in local galleries as well as custom work- and do around 5K a year


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## JakeT

Hi,

Looks like you've gotten some great feedback and advice here. I'll just pitch in my 2-pennies worth: I'm a solutions architect, which includes some rather complex webform applications, though ecommerce site design and marketing are not my forte.

However, what struck me when I visited your site was that it wasn't terribly apparent that you were selling something, nor what you were selling. I think the advice regarding brick-and-mortar sales is spot-on, but for generating internet sales, I would 1. improve search rankings and 2. direct all search engine traffic to a page which prominently displays your products and offers easy-as-possible ordering.


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## pashley

*JakeT* thanks for the feedback, but I'm bit befuddled by the comment that it's not apparent on my website that I'm selling something. I have a rotating products header, a retail outlets box…how would you suggest I improve that?


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## Sawkerf

It hurts to say this, but most of us have an inflated sense of the "coolness" of our work that isn't shared by the majority of our prospective customers. Customers rarely care about intricate joinery, rich finishes, etc. If they just "like it" - and can't find it for less somewhere else - they will open their wallets. Otherwise, it's "That's sure nice" as they walk away.

My favorite example is dovetailed drawer boxes. When I offer them to customers, nine out of ten have no idea of what they are - and ten out of ten don't think that they're worth the extra money. - lol


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## Mogebier

I didn't read all the comments above because they are all waaaay too long 

I have a web site for my Photography business and I have the same problem. I think it boils down to 2 things:

1. There are over 3 BILLION web sites on the internet. Google can't tell how many in the US alone, so you have no chance of just being "stumbled upon". You have to advertise. A LOT. Everywhere. Every forum. Every e-mail. Send out fliers. Send out direct mailers. Hand out business cards. Even then, good luck getting noticed. I haven't. I even have my site on my car's back window, so every person behind me sees it.

2. The economy is in the crapper, in case you haven't noticed  People aren't spending their money on "extras". In my case, people feel they don't need pictures and the services I offer. So until that improves, even if people find your site, they have to have the extra $$$ to spend.

www.maxphotostl.com


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## Chelios

I asked a professional shopper….ie my wife. She says..

1.- She is not interested in seeing who made the stuff. Put your picture in some other spot (about the maker), - better put photos of your pieces for sale that show when the page first loads.

2.- She didn't realize right away your stuff is for sale. (no prices- no sale signs)

3. Your stuff didn't appeal to her. She said it is not generic enough. Too many personal choices you took that it doesn't really go with her decor.

hope this helps you


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## cranbrook2

Birdhouses sell !! 
I can,t build them fast enough  My cheapest sells for $ 200.00 and goes up to $ 3,000


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## pashley

*Chelios*:

Thank you for your feedback (and wife's).

About not being interested in who made the stuff - which I take to mean my picture in the shop. I purposefully put that there to show to the prospective customer that a craftsman made the piece - that it wasn't mass produced some where. I think it gives a sense of community or warmth - despite my mug.

I have pictures loading right away - and on a rotator at that - so i bit confused about the "put photos of your pieces for sale that show when the page first loads" comment.

Perhaps I should put up prices on the rotator; on the other hand, i'd like the customer to go to the product page and get lured in before springing my confiscatory prices on them….LOL

"She said it is not generic enough. Too many personal choices you took that it doesn't really go with her decor." I'm trying to distinguish myself, so I don't think generic - whatever that means - is what I would be shooting for. It's a mission theme, hence the "New Mission Workshop" title.

I appreciate your feedback, sincerely….


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## skywalker01

I didn't have time to check out all of the responses above so this may be a repeat. But if not then your going to like this one. Go to google and check out a website called Google Adwords. It's a great way to bring people to your store. You have to do quite a bit of learning and research to know what to do with it and how much to sell but one thing is for sure. You will get people coming to your site. There are other sites that can help with this but we found Adwords works really well. It especially works well if you have e-commerce. Check it out. I think it's www.adwords.google.com but try a search and you'll get it. And your stuff is priced very reasonably. In fact the chair is a steal at that price. Nice work. Maybe you could make it easier for people to quickly see what your selling in a simple fashion. There is a lot of stuff on your home page. You know they say that you have less than 20 seconds to catch the potential buyers attention. I couldn't even figure out how to view what you did in less than 60 seconds. Just a thought. It does have a nice clean look though.


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## pashley

Thanks…I ran adwords before with no success over a year ago. They are quite expensive….just put the ad up again…will try it for a while….


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## skywalker01

They only cost as much as you want it to. That's where the research comes in to play. You have to find out where you are losing customers. You can put code in to your page that tells you where they go and where they drop off and then if it keeps happening you adjust things on your website. It is not easy but it doesn't have to cost a ton. Set your clicks low and definitely turn off content clicks. Content clicks will cost you lots of money and I find they never lead anywhere. Stick only to keywords that you set the dollar amount for. The cool thing is that your first sale could pay for a ton of clicks so you have to think about that when your setting your max CPC. Never the less it is kind of like gambling. Once you get your first bite/ sale you'll be so excited! It is also like gambling in that the potential customer has no idea what to expect when they get to your site but they've already clicked and you've already paid for it. They may click the ad and you have no idea why they don't purchase but you can see where they look on your site with the above mentioned code inserts. It's a tough game and that's exactly what it is. There is a lot to it but the careful management of your website and your active keywords will help you greatly. Good luck and I hope you make a sale soon. If I had more money I'd buy something myself. Nice looking stuff. Also check out www.spyfu.com. Type in your domaign and see where you stand. If you know another site that does what you do, type that domaign in and see what they are paying for as far as keywords and how they rank organically. This could help you decide where to put your money.


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## skywalker01

Here's an ugly website… but… They get straight to the point and they are currently #1 on google paid ads.

http://artsandcraftsman.com

It could be much more professional looking but I guess it might work for them. Nice looking stuff. Makes you look real professional comparatively though.


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## stratiA

I have been following this forum for a while now. I want to thank all who posted suggestions. My wife thinks I may have some talent with woodworking (god bless her) and thinks other people may be interested in what I may be able to make them. Most of it consists of kids stuff. She went so far as to investigate what operating and maintaining a website costs. She was going to present it as a Christmas present. We were hoping to make a few bucks and justify all the time I spend in the basement. I have no illusions of becoming rich. I am fully aware of what this economy has done to all our disposable income. So while I have plans of making clocks, small pieces of furniture and artsy stuff to sell. I will continue to concentrate on making kids stuff. As a financially challenged family we seem to have one area in which we do not cut back on and that is my young daughter. We seem to continue to buy/make things for her that may make her life, educating, etc better. I seem to have noticed other families who make the same decisions. Last fall while attending a craft show, I looked at wood crafts. Meanwhile the only thing we bought were cute knit hats and kids xmas presents. I took notice. If I can appeal to women, I can sell it to them. We have made a family commit to participate in a few smaller craft shows. If anything it will be fun and if I make at least a little cash we may continue. As for the online thing I believe thing that may be displayed prominently at home or worn etc needs to be seen in person to be purchased. Especially a high ticket item. As much as I a fellow wood worker appreciates high end work I need to see it, and possibly touch it. So as Craftsman on the lake has stated maybe use as a brochure may be (for most of us anyway) the internet' s best use. Well enough of my long rant and thanks again. I will save this forum info, just in case I get that far along. Good luck to all.


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## pashley

I've also been considering printed media more for advertising; I think pictures can convey so much more than words. Problem is THEY also cost a ton of money. Adirondack Life, which would be a good fit for me is in the $500 range for a four color 1/12 column; ugh. That's a lot of money for one ad. BUT, on the flip side, their demographics:

Audience
Based on the most recent reader survey readers are typically 57-year-old married individuals with an average household income of $143,000.

Adirondack Life readers tend to be well educated.


70% are college graduates
31% hold post-graduate degrees

Adirondack Life readers


23% are professionals
13% are executives or managers
10% own businesses
7% hold technical positions

This provides a high level of income and asset accumulation.


average annual income is $143,000
average value of primary residence is $350,000
average net worth is $917,000
36% own vacation homes valued an average of $352,000

27% of subscribers own a home in the Park, and 13% indicated they are looking to purchase property in the Adirondacks.

When asked in this recent survey they indicated they own or plan to buy


books about the Adirondacks
camping gear
Adirondackstyle furniture
outdoor sportswear
garden/yard equipment
sports equipment

Adirondack Life readers are also active. They engage in the following activities regularly


51% hike
25% crosscountry ski
21% alpine ski
46% canoe
33% bicycle
52% garden

Adirondack Life readers spend 1.8 hours reading each issue and *save issues an average 3.1 years.* They average 16.9 days visiting the area each year and 87% live outside the Adirondack Park.

That's a target demo my kind of stuff is looking for, so maybe it's not a bad deal after all.


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## Kenzwerl

Pashley, I have a sucessful woodshop in the mountains of Utah and the only advice I have for you is to be yourself, if you love what you do let people know, when you see a chance to sell your work bring it up, when you meet new people or run run into friends or aquaintences ask them what they are doing that generarlly gets the same question in return and you can make yourself available to them. More people than you think need or want your service and if you have a passion for it , which you obviously do customers will gravitate to it. We try not to have any limitations to what we do and I find whether we're doing a small molding job, building a kitchen or making a custom furniture piece there is great joy (and a fair amount of frustration sometimes) in it. Every oportunity is just that so make the most of it. Heres some advice for everybody: Calculate yor resources, make a plan, process the plan and enjoy the fruits of your labor. I've never made a clock that could be this weekends project.


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## Kenzwerl

And by the way although I know I should I have no web site or do any advertising of any kind, I know I have been blessed to a certain degree but this works for everybody.


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## juniorjock

The one thing you DO NOT have to worry about is the photography, everything looks great on your site. Advertising is tricky….... if you can't sell local, find someone to hire to get your name and your craft out there. When you get it in the right place, you won't have anything to worry about.

Edit: Look for an Advertising Agency.


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## Wood_smith

Well, I don't want to rain on anybody's parade with regards to magazine advertising, but when I first started selling my Pouches last summer, I fell for the impressive stats of a Canadian woodworking magazine (who shall remain nameless here)... I was told the magazine was read by 1.1 million people each issue. For a mere $1800, I could get the special four issue package which gave me a double size ad in the classified section (1/6 page, vs. the usual 1/12 page for the first issue). Seemed like a good idea, but after four issues, guess how many inquiries I had from those 4.4 million readers? None. Zero. Zilch.

And to rub salt in the wound, the day after I paid the last installment, I received an order for two pouches on a free classified website!
Now most entrepreneurs would have thrown the stack of Pouches in the garbage and started knitting or something, but each of has the next big thing in the marketplace, right? So, I plug away, joining forums like this and learning tons from folks like you… I should have done this first. Live and learn.

I don't have an answer why your beautiful clocks haven't sold as much, but I think the comments above make a lot of sense. Don't give up. If you like, I could put a link to your website on mine, but I'm not getting as much traffic as I like. Let me know.

Hmm… can I interest you in a nice velvet pouch to store one of those clocks in? ;-)


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## SEE

I have a few suggestions for you that may help to increase your SE rankings, which can translate into sales.

1. The text on your index page is THE most important thing for SEO that you can do. Create more text on the index page that is keyword rich. Make some of those keyword phrases anchor text links that link directly to the page for that item. Your index page text is well written but is lacking in popular, frequently searched phrases.

I understand that your style is a bit different than classical Arts and Crafts Furniture and Mission Furniture. Still, I think that you'd do well to incorporate those two search terms phrases into the text on your index page simply because those are popular keyword phrases. Of course, you would still explain that your style is a new twist on those two frequently searched styles of furniture.

2. Think about your title tags for each page. Make them a bit more descriptive and include a known keyword phrase that people use when searching for the featured item on that page.

3. Make a unique description tag for EVERY page on your website. This is very important. You can make the description tag in sentence format using known keyword phrases incorporated into the text. You don't want the description tag to be TOO long but you can use one or two sentences.

4. In the Quick Links menu on the right side of your index page make the whole phrase a link. For example: You have a link to "The Old Forge coffee table". However, you are only using the words The Old Forge for the link. I would change that so that the entire phrase is a link. Coffee table is a popular search term phrase. So, you want to include that in the anchor text link. The same principle would apply to The Sentinel pulpit/lectern and other Quick Links.

5. Create a descriptive alt tag for EVERY image on your website. The SE don't read images, but they do read alt tags for images.

Your work is very nice and reasonably priced. Your website looks very nice, too. You just need to make a few important changes to make it more search engine friendly. This can translate into more first page search results for your website.

I'm not an SEO expert. However, I've learned a few things over the years that have helped one of my websites (non woodworking related) rank well on google, yahoo and msn. This site generate sales every day. If I can do it, you can, too! Feel free to send a message to me if you have any specific questions. If I know the answer, I'll tell you. If I don't, I tell you that, too.

Best Wishes,

Stephen


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## Dez

I was organizing my bookmarks and ran across another places to list your site and product - WoodFurniture.net. http://www.woodfurniture.net/about.php


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## pashley

*SEE* I believe that I have good keywords on all the pages, according the the raw page source code. Am I going wrong somewhere?


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## flowchart_jockey

My suggestion would be to have there be no more than 2 clicks between your home page and the option to buy any of your products. It takes a minimum of 4 clicks to purchase any of your clocks. People have very short attention spans when it comes to web browsing and you want them to be able to instantly digest the fact that you have a beautiful product, and that it is for sale. It is not obvious from first glance, without scrolling, that these beautiful clocks are for sale, and not museum pieces. Your work and photography are great.

People like to click on pretty things on websites.

Your main feature on the home page, the scrolling photos of your products, doesn't link anywhere. The first thing I did when I looked at your website was click on the pretty picture, and nothing happened. I might be inclined to lose interest at this point. When I did find where to purchase a clock, the "buy" button is way down at the bottom of the page, hidden in the area where most websites put their "about us" information bar. Once again, I could easily become frustrated at this point and go to another site, because I am a web surfer and have the attention span of a gnat with ADD.

I think thare are 2 relatively easy things you could do to make your website more "sales friendly." Make links to each product directly from each of their scrolling photos on the front page. Make a link to a "buy now" page, with more information about the product, from the large photo on the product page. Also a shiny, red, candylike button that says "you want me" somewhere prominently, but not obnoxiously placed. Keep the 2 click rule in mind.

I think your site is visually attractive and your clocks are gorgeous. I think some navigability fixes could make it even better.


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## hypnos

Meta keywords have no effect on search engine results anymore. This google search= only finds one link pointing to your website. If you can get some high ranking sites to link to your site, that will be the easiest way for you to rise in the rankings - the quality and content of your website doesn't seem to be an issue. Maybe some other woodworkers with websites could place links to your website, the most effective ones are surrounded by text that relates to what you are selling. If they just have a list of 20 other links it doesn't help as much, but if they wrote a little blurb with a link or two that would help. 
Also, you might try doing something that would get you linked in the arts section of a local newspaper if that's at all plausible, newspapers have good rankings.


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## pashley

This OP never ends! To my benefit 

*flowchartjockey:* My suggestion would be to have there be no more than 2 clicks between your home page and the option to buy any of your products. It takes a minimum of 4 clicks to purchase any of your clocks.

I'm slapping myself upside my head - I should have thought of that! One of my website design tenets is don't make people drill down forever to get to what they want. Might be time for a re-design….

Your main feature on the home page, the scrolling photos of your products, doesn't link anywhere. The first thing I did when I looked at your website was click on the pretty picture, and nothing happened.

Yet ANOTHER slap upside the head! The thing is, that is technically possible - a link to exist from that rotator to the product shown. I'm on it.

the "buy" button is way down at the bottom of the page…

Again, really good point. That will be fixed!

Also a shiny, red, candylike button that says "you want me" somewhere prominently, but not obnoxiously placed.

Not sure what you mean by that.

*hypnos:
*
This google search= only finds one link pointing to your website. If you can get some high ranking sites to link to your site

I'm not sure that's the entire story; there are links out there that will link to a specific page on my website, not to mention all the links I have on signatures in forums - and I have a Facebook. However, your point about getting linked from a higher ranked site is valid, and I need to figure that out.

Also, you might try doing something that would get you linked in the arts section of a local newspaper if that's at all plausible, newspapers have good rankings.

Actually my friend, that did happen, about 3 weeks before Christmas and I was swamped. Obviously, advertising works, but man, is it expensive!_


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## SEE

I think that the two click rule mentioned above is very important, as are alt tags for all of your images. In fact, keyword rich anchor text beneath the images should make for a more SE friendly link than just an image itself, IMHO.


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## flowchart_jockey

I was being a little tongue in cheek with the shiny candylike button (I'm an old Ren and Stimpy fan). What I meant by that was to have your "buy" button be an attractive and prominent part of your product site that is just begging to be clicked. I agree with SEE that image alt tags are very important, not only for the SE keyword but also so people have another cue to know what they are looking at.


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## pashley

Made the changes - Add to Cart button more prominent in all product pages; the rotator on the home page now is clickable, taking you right to the corresponding page. Much better.


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## pashley

Now "tweeting" on Twitter here. If you'd like to follow me, I'd be much obliged.

I must confess, I don't see the commercial value of Twitter - can someone clue me in?!


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## LateNightOwl

I had a successful small, specialized retail business selling expensive products for many years. Magazine ads were one of my main sources for building a customer base. 4-color magazine ads can work well. But don't make the mistake of going for the "deal" type of ad that was unsuccessful for Woodsmith. The "Classifieds" sections in magazines generally bring in a lot of money for the magazine, but very little return for the advertisers. It is really hard to stand in the Classifieds.

OTOH, a great, professionally done, eye-catching, 1/4 page or larger ad targeted in the right publication can_ bring in a good return. It needs to be in the main part of the magazine with the articles to really be effective. The longer running the ads, the better. Repeatedly seeing your ad builds name recognition and reputation. People rarely make a purchase the first time they see an ad. It was amazing and frustrating how many customers would say, "I've been enjoying your ads for years, but this is the first time I've shopped with you." Once I got them in the door or to the website, they became regulars.

In other words, magazine advertising needs to be a long-term commitment to pay for itself. It takes a lot money and a lot of patience for the pay-off in magazine advertising. Only you can know if it is right for you.


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## pashley

Some interesting news - I was contacted by a local disabilities advocacy agency about including one of my pieces in a silent auction at a fundraiser they are having in June.

I think I will do it because:
A) It helps out less fortunate people;
B) I can gain exposure of my stuff to some 200 people of an upper-income bracket;
C) I can write it off on my taxes;
D) I get a ticket to the event - a jazz dinner kinda thing - and answer questions about my piece, and hand out business cards.

So I think I'll go for it.

I would like to give away a little something, other than business cards, to people I talk with. I'm thinking wooden bookmarks, or something like that I can make up cheap and quick. Any one have any other ideas? Not food, the event is catered.


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## JimKing201

pashley,

The first thing I want to see on a website while surfing for something specific is a 'Purchase', 'Prices', 'Buy Now', or similar tab right up in front of my face. I would like it as big and as bold as can be, if it isnt, there are always more sites just another click away. Even if I dont go there right away, its always nice to know from the start that the all the pricing/shipping/questions will have easy access.

I definately do not like clicking around to find some practically 'hidden' page, or having to write someone for prices. I am only suggesting that those type of sites are usually not very 'user friendly'.

I'm also not saying that you dont have your prices up, but that was my very first impression of your site. (I hope I am not being too critical, just posting my own thoughts to possibly help you and others!!)

Get a great big tab right up front on every page with "OWN ONE TODAY!!" or "BUY NOW!" tabs. It could be just about anything that would look appropriate on your website.

After all, isnt that what most people would 'LIKE' to know right away, if possible, BEFORE they get to wishing for something as nice as what you build?

What ever you do, have fun with it! 
As I have said before, if woodworking starts to feel like 'work', I'll sell all my equipment!


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## MrsN

I like the bookmark idea to give away at your event. I made a few out of some scrap material glued together and cut thin. I needed a better way to cut and sand them even, mine had some waves but I did them quick.
If you wanted to get really creative you could engrave/carve/burn/print your business info on to the bookmark, it would really be neat thing to take home.


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## pashley

*JimKing201* I agree about the buying it now button, and will work on that this week, thanks.


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## jcsterling

unless the tax code has changed in the past couple years ,as far as I know you can only write off the cost of materials on your taxes not what you would sell it for.


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## JimArnoldChess

Everything everybody has said makes sense. The best comment that I read was that your website is like a brochure. Unless you know how to drive people to your website, it won't matter how good your work is. The single best way to drive people to your site is through blogging.

I noticed you didn't have a 'counter' on your website. There are so many artist website places…handemade, etsy, yessy, art this and art that and they all want $$$$. $90 here and $60 there adds up fast. To be successful in selling your work and making a go of it as a full time job, it takes a combination of on-line marketing, doing some road shows, word-of-mouth, social networking, and maybe even (gag) hooking up with a gallery or art co-op.

While blogging will raise your page rankings, it still doesn't make people click on your website. YOU have to employ strategies that will drive people to your site. Driving strategies that will pre-qualify your site hits. One way to do this is to place ads in Craigslist. Craigslist is free, you can post links to your site, you can post pics of your work. You can do the same on Spider, Integiant, and Kijiji (although kijiji doesn't allow direct links). All those places are free. On-line marketing requires you to spent lots of time online, I spend anywhere from 10-20hours per seven day week, sometimes even more. You ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO get a paypal merchant account, period. You can invoice your customers through paypal, your customers can pay you through paypal with any credit card they want even if they don't have a paypal account. Paypal merchant accounts are free, too! And as has been mentioned before, you need to make the Paypal connection plainly visible on your site.

It takes time (and money) to figure out what combination of marketing strategies works best for you, where to put your emphasis…in road shows versus online. There are people out there who do appreciate fine hand craftmanship and they will still pay for it. I just got here and haven't fully explored the forum yet, if there is a place for us who do shows to comment on them, we should add the shows we do discussing how we did, what sold, what sucked, etc.

I've done the road show thing full time and I've done the online thing full time, what works best is finding the balance between both.

It IS stressful and time-consuming, no doubt!


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## pashley

*Chessmkr1* I do have a counter, in that I can check my statistics on the back-end.

While checking out your suggestions, the one "Spider" came up as a search engine simulation page. It shows you what the search engines see. You can find it here. It was interesting because it showed my keywords to be different than what I wanted, so I will fix that.

I do have paypal, and buttons set up for an easy transaction. I will put a "we take paypal" kinda thing up on the front page, that's a good point.


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## TwistedRedneck

Ok, got bored of reading this post so I read the first few and scanned the rest. Sorry, no disrespect, just honesty.

An idea that popped into my head, couple anyway. First, Google has some pretty darned good tools for getting your site noticed that include advertisement across different websites and they also have the Adword thing where you can have Google analyze your website and see how it views your website and suggest keywords with their popularity that you can add to your heading so that search engines can find your site and users can find your site quicker.

The second, I have seen a number of Truck Stops across the country that sell unique items from the local area. I am a Trucker and i see not only Truck Drivers but Travelers stop in the Truck stops as well, looking for that souvenir or nick knack to take home with them. Their are a large number of customers at these places, more than a standard gas station. (Not downgrading your work. It is very good from what I can see)

Some of the better known are the TA (Travel Centers of America), Pilot Travel Center, Petro Travel Center, and Loves Travel center. These are the major ones. I would mention the FlyingJ but they have been bought out by Pilot.

Anyway, this might be just a seasonal sale location but it would be worth checking into.


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## BreakingBoardom

Have you thought about tryin to sell your clocks in SkyMall? You know, the magazine in airplanes. This seems like the perfect type of item that I would see in a SkyMall magazine. Plus you'll have a good consitent viewership and I know that plenty of people would probably love the look of your clocks. Plus, I'm guessing that with some of the items in that mag, the people who buy stuff from it have plenty of money to spend.


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## pashley

Has anyone used Facebook ads, and to what degree of success?


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## wysong

IF I may 
1st off , been there done that with the web site thing 
I build/sell Fireplace mantels .

Maybe it's your product line and pricing for todays buyer/market.
Just because you like these styles /furniture lines, do other people .

Out of 5000 mantels I've built ,the one design I loved and built for my 
own old house , No one else has ever picked.
I build the same design , just different dimensions every damb day.
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Your product line :

clocks : thats what cell phones are for , most people don't wear watches anymore 
, wall clocks are plastic and run on batteries, who spends more $15 on a wall clock
times ( Punn ) have changed , anything electronic already has a clock in it .

Mission style furniture is a favorite style of mine , but I'm male and 50.

Female and younger is your main customer . Mission style furniture 
doesn't appeal to them , chiunky is in , ottamans are back in but cloth/material
bigger is back in style .

the urns are over priced,for what they are

the pulpit is on another planet in pricing

Lamps are ceramic/pottery and styles changed , wood is not 
fashionable , go in a lighting store , see if you can find one real wood lamp
there..

Not tryin to bash ya any which way , just giving a honest answer

To be able to write off a charitable gift, as a you determined value
you would have to have proof of that value , you don't , since you never have sold 
any, so there is NO write off at this time , Sorry , wish it worked that way

I'd be giving away 2 mantels every month , if that were the case.

I've had to lower my prices , the last two years , I'm selling to a 
younger client that doesn't know pine from oak from what ever.

If I get a customer to actually look at the finished product installed 
is amazing ( goes with age group, 50+). most are to busy with there
every day life to care after the l thrill of the buy is over.


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## Sarit

I feel like your website is too white. It seems too modern to me, but that's just my 2 cents. If there's some way to make website appear 'mission' in style, that would help.

Also from looking at etsy sales of mission furniture, it looks like if you can offer products in the under $100 range, then you stand a much better chance of attracting sales. I think people aren't willing to take a chance on buying something expensive they can't return without being able to see it in person. One guy on there, BuckCreekFurnishings, seems to be doing well. He has "antiqued" finishes which seem to be selling well. The fact that his cheaper sells are giving him a positive feedback is probably the reason why people are willing to spend more with him.

So maybe if you came out with something easy and inexpensive to build so that customers can get their feet wet, then the sales can start coming in.


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## Puzzleman

Have you ever thought about going to a local art show and setting up a booth? Once there, talk to people who come by to say what they do and don't like about your product line. You can ask questions to get feedback. You can read body language to get feedback. You can ask them what they might be interested in.

and by the way, give them a card with your website on it as well.

Then comes the hard part. Use the info that you receive and build products accordingly. You need to create products that others want to buy, not what you like. Sometimes you can do both but again the most important thing is what do they want to buy.


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## pashley

*Sarit*

I hear your concern about the whiteness of the site; I liked the clean look, but I'm thinking of changing it to a more brown or earth tone template.

I have come out with a clock recently, the "Childwold" for $175, but I may reduce it to $125; it was something I intentionally tried to make for the budget conscious, and was quick and easy to build.


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## pashley

*Puzzleman*

I have not set up a booth, no, because of the entry fee, but your points are good ones; you can get real feedback and adjust the product line accordingly.


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## TwistedRedneck

I am pretty sure I said this already but I am too lazy to go and look for the post so if I repeat, sorry.

You cant You cant ride the elephant until you catch it friend. Here's the deal in short.

Grab a bunch of items and set up a booth at a Swap Meet. This is just about as small as you can or should start. Here is your step into the market. Sell, and learn from what you sell. Puzzleman has the right idea. You need to find out what sells. The Swap Meet is a testing ground per say. The over head is low as well. Once or twice is not enough, you need to make it a lasting and reliable venture. Every weekend for say maybe 6 months or so. You should have a good idea of what sells and what does not sell.

Next step is to locate the Art shows but not to sell, just to check them out. Again go to a few. See what others are selling and for what price. Take a look at the crowds and find out how deep folks are going into the convention before they start buying. Also look at he marketing techniques that the other sellers are using like how are they displaying the items, lighting, table setup etc. Keep this information for your future reference. Once you feel comfortable, now spend a little more money and locate yourself in an area that will be profitable. Not near the entrance and not in the middle.

You dont but anything when you first walk in to a place like that do you? Probably not but by the time you get half way through you have already spent money on items or the money in your pocket is burning a big hole.

These are just the starters for you.


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## Puzzleman

TwistedRedneck, you are so right. I make my living from doing Art & Craft shows throughout the Midwest. My website draws about a third of my total sales. But I can tell that my website is fed by my shows. Where ever I go, I get a surge of orders from that part of the country for the next few weeks.

A website sholld be one of the tools in your sales toolbox, not the only one. Just like in woodworking, you get much better results using several different tools than just using only one tool for the whole project.


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## chrisstef

In the business section of the newspaper they typically have articles, or blurbs, on promotions, new hires, etc ..

Try contacting your local newspaper and tell then that you would like to post a promotion for one of your employees (that being you) ... give yourself a new title … not president or vice president but .. maybe lead craftsman promoted from assembler.

Free advertising!


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## JohnGreco

"A website sholld be one of the tools in your sales toolbox, not the only one. Just like in woodworking, you get much better results using several different tools than just using only one tool for the whole project."

I think Amazon would beg to differ. It is easier to sell in person because what we make is so often not fully captured with pictures, but imho that's not to say you can't be successful selling only online.


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## Puzzleman

Amazon may only sell online but their marketing to find customers did not start only online. 
They advertised in magazines, on television and radio. They also sent
out press releases which were put in many newscasts and newspapers.

What I am trying to state is that only trying to market yourself only on the
Internet is limiting yourself to the people who find your site. The pros
use PPC and SEO which is beyond most of us.


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## Knothead62

I build custom spinning and fly rods. I have had very few inquiries and no sales. After a quote and no response, I figure people want a custom rod at a K-Mart price. A fellow rodbuilder says he gets more sales from his facebook site than his website. I'm planning on some advertising in a couple of magazines after the first of the year; will see how that goes.
You might consider expanding the terms for a search for your business and website.


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## pashley

Let me know how you make out on the magazines. I had zero luck with Facebook targeted ads.


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## pashley

I was reading this thread woodworking sales and what sells at craft fairs; unfortunately it's closed now, and I couldn't respond.

Some things I learned:

• *"Craft shows" aren't a place to sell your finest woodworking.* They're a place to rope in people to show them you're finest, expensive stuff, to take orders, but not as a venue for it.

• *Sell stuff in $25 range, geared towards women.* Bonus points for jewelry and decorative items (inside and out).

• *The venue should match the product.* Would you try to sell a Ferrari at a Hyundai dealership? No. Why? People aren't looking to spend that amount of money. Conversely, you wouldn't try selling a cheap cutting board at a fine arts gallery.

• *Seems like the only woodworkers that can make a living at it are cabinetmakers.* Why? They are several-thousand dollar projects, and woman like spending money on their kitchens. Custom cabinetry (done right, of course) is awesome. It's also a needed product - a kitchen has to have cabinets; it doesn't need a nice clock, pen, or bandsaw box. I may be wrong, but I don't see many other guys making a decent living off of woodworking, other than cabinet making. Hopefully, we can turn that around.

Also, discussed on that thread was the issue of quality and mass production. People will buy decent-quality mass produced stuff made in China, and not your superior product costing 3X more. It's true, even with food - look at the popularity of fast-food places. People want stuff, and want it cheap. Even some of us here shop at Harbor Freight. So, we have the Wal-Mart mentality.

But, we also have the Stickley mentality; people willing to pay top-dollar for world-class quality product. I am fortunate in that I have a Stickley showroom just down the street from me, and can go there for inspiration and ideas. The factory is only an hour away. My neighbor, a woodworker of 30 years, has been on a tour of their manufacturing process - everything from lumber picking to the final waxing. Their product is mass-manufactured - in a sense. They mass-produce when they can, where it doesn't matter, but personally produce where they have to.

Example: they'll have an experienced guy pulling the best lumber for a run on - let's say, oval tables. The usual mass-production mill will use just any wood, feeding it into a dimensioning machine, like a planer. But this guy picks the best wood, and then it will go on to a typical mass-production stage, with dimensioning, cutting and a team of guys assembling the table - but not just assembly guys, but craftsman. He made mention that for the oval table, they had some kind of machine that would make one big cut around the perimeter of the table, to make the oval shape in one swoop. You or I would have to use a router by hand, and hopefully, not screw it up. Then, it's finish is done by people that know what they are doing, and take the time to do it right - the result is a world class product, with a high price tag. But the take-away is they spent money (time doing things by hand) on what counted - what added value to the product - and used the benefits of mass-manufacturing (time and labor savings) when they could.

Obviously, Stickley has the advantage of being able to use big, dedicated machines to make things go faster, things we can't afford. But we can implement the ideas they use into our business model. Here's one idea: consider buying pre-dimensioned lumber, not rough lumber that you have to take the time to dimension. You pay a bit more for dimensioned lumber (I'm just talking about 4 sided dimension, not cutting to length), but you also don't have to spend time (which is money) and risk of injury dimensioning the lumber yourself. You have the value of having ready-to-go lumber, and you can concentrate more on assembly and finish, than dimensioning. Another big time (and thus, money) saver is doing production runs. What I mean is, make things in runs of several at a time. I have several clocks I sell. If I get an order for one, I'll make at least two, if not three at the same time. Why? Because I already have the machines and jigs set up, the wood dimensioned; I've got the specifics on how to do it in the front of my mine, hopefully minimizing costly mistakes. Why set up a router 3 different times, when I can do it just once? Make sense?

So there you have some more thoughts on making money at what you love; I hope it helps, and I'd like to hear back…


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## pashley

I'll be exploring this topic, and other marketing topics on WoodBuzz.net, another woodworking community. I hope you can join me there!


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## Wood_smith

The economy still has a lot of recovering to do…


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## Wood_smith

I agree, Pashley,
I have had no sales from my Facebook ad, not sure if anyone even sees it…


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## pashley

It's a weird science…maybe hiring a professional marketing consultant is the way to go…


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## DavidWhite

I think your product is teriffic, but selling via the web is the wrong way to go about it. I personally would not buy a clock on the internet - not a $400 one any way. If I were in the market for such a clock - and I'd love to own one - I would want to be able to eyeball it first. Photos are good but they're no substitute for being able to really admire a beautiful thing first hand.

I also think that your market is limited. How many people are out there looking for something as specific as a mission style clock? And how many willing to spend $400 on one?


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## pashley

Thanks, David for your good points.

Having a product in hand is great for sales, especially for wood. I always know I've done a good job on a piece when people want to reach out and touch it. About the only thing you can do on the internet is take great pics, and I think I have that.

What you are talking about is selling in shops of some sort. The problem with that is, they take a cut - and a large one; anywhere from 20% to 50%. Now one could argue that the target market for a higher end clock is people with disposal income, so just raise the price, so my $495 clock now goes to $600 or $1000. Doing that wipes out a lot of potential customers, unless I'm in a really high end shop, hence, selling on the internet.

How many people want to spend almost $500 on a clock? It is a decorative item, and that's a good point. The answer is, not a lot. But through the power of the internet to expose my product worldwide, there is enough.

I don't think my product is really the problem, nor the price. The problem is visibility. When people look for a "mission style clock" on the net, how do they do it? ALmost exclusively through Google. If you're not on the first page of google search results, you might as well be invisible. If I had the number one spot on Google, I wouldn't be writing this. Google is king.

I can also go the route of printed media. Those ads are abot $500 a piece for the kind of higher-end magazines I would need to place in. I haven't done that, as I am reluctant to place what amounts to, a $500 bet. But, I think eventually, I'll have to give it a try.


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## Pawky

hello pashley, I haven't read all the comments, though I have read through a few at the beginning. The main thing I'd like to mention is in regards to you stating what rank you were in the searches. You are right in stating that being in the top of Google is key, but there is a little more then just that for what you are looking at; let me explain. First, your numbers of rankings were based on the keywords mission clock or something similar if I remember correctly. Now, how many 'potential customers' are going to do a search for that? Or even think to add mission to the front? I'd venture to say that most of your potential customers would be more likely to type in hand made clocks, or hand crafted clocks, or something more on those lines. With google, you can look to see how often a search word or phrase is actually searched for, and that's important in looking at what you need to strive for.

[I am using potential buyers defined as any customer looking to buy a clock who may be interested in your style and thus could buy. You may need 100 potential buyers looking at your items before you actually get a buyer]

It'd be great if you made it to #1 for "mission clocks" but if only 1% of potential buyers typed in that search term that's not that great. If 65% of potential buyers are typing in hand crafted clocks or hand crafted wooden clocks, that's the term you need to be shooting to get higher in the ranks for. That's what will get more people looking at your items, and the more looking equals more buying.

Now, of course that is just a very small piece of the puzzle, and I know others have been addressed here such as knowing what items can realistically be sold well online and which sell better in person. It all comes down to knowing your customer base. It's all the same stuff that needs to be looked at when thinking of opening a store, and that's why people hire businesses to do that for them, to let them know if their business has the potential to do well, in this town, on this street. You need to know if the people can support it, and if you are going to get the exposure you need. The same is true with a website, there are just some adjustments made. It's not easy, and it can take time, but if you hit it just right, things can take off.

I hope this helps even just a tad


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## pashley

*Pawky*, Yes, trying to target people searching for "clocks" would open up my site to more people; problem is, there would be no way to climb to the top of Google with that, as there are so many site out there targeting that as well.

If you shoot for a specific keyword, "mission clocks", it's so specific, that you have a better chance of climbing to the top, because there are less competitors. That, and the people coming to the site would be more likely to buy as they have searched on that term.

I appreciate your input though….


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## Jered

Sorry, I got in late on this discussion, read through the first page of replies then saw there were 3 more pages and to be honest, I don't feel like reading those 3 more pages. So sorry if someone already brought this up.

I think you were right on in your original post. $400 is an awkward price point for the type of clocks you produce. It is way high for the average consumer who buys clocks at target. Yet it is too low to be considered by someone with the money to buy a high end clock.

The other thing to think about… when figuring your price for this type of item, you think about how many you could sell in a year, not how long it takes to build. Most of your time should be dedicated to marketing. Spend 90% of your time marketing and figure that time back into the price of your clocks. I think you would have a hard time selling more than 3 clocks per month even if you were marketing them full time. So your price should be over $1200 per clock. That's assuming you are making money on other items as well. Your chairs are a little low as well, but profit margin on those is probably going to be lower than the clocks since I would imagine you normally sell those in a set. If I had the money, I would have no problem paying $1500 for some of the clocks you make.

I would imagine that you can not depend on search engines to direct people to your site. I would think you need to advertise on sites and in magazines that target wealthy homeowners. Use those ads to get people to your site. Maybe get displays in all the high end furniture stores in your area.


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## Jered

I think this quote from your website says it all…

My hope is that the piece I create for you will become cherished heirlooms; a part of your family.

This statement does not coincide with your prices. Heirlooms are either of strong sentimental value or of large dollar value. I would expect to pay at least $600 for an 'heirloom' lamp. At less than $200, that lamp will be sold at the estate sale. Don't feel like you are ripping people off. As I stated in the previous post, it will take a lot of money and hours marketing to the high end so figuring that time and cost into the price of your products, you still won't be making an immoral amount per hour.


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## Manitario

Interesting discussion; I started reading all the replies before I realized that this question was posted over a year ago. I'm curious to know if your sales have improved since that time. 
You make beautiful clocks, but personally, I think that your website is a little bit drab and the home page is very busy. If I'm going to a website to buy something as artistically crafted as your clocks, I'm not interested in all the other details that you put on the homepage, it is just a distraction. In many aspects, selling woodwork is like selling art; eg. if you go to a professional photographer's site, for the majority of them, the first thing you see is large examples of their work, not a bunch of details about themselves or their craftmanship. Unfortunately, I go to your site and it has small pictures and a small scrolling display of your work at the top, and then a lot of words on a very plain white background. I'm going to be convinced to buy your clock first and foremost by how it looks. 
I don't mean any of this as criticism, I think that your woodwork is amazing, but as with happens with many artists, the difficulty is in properly advertising.


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## connors

I'm curious as well. Have sales improved?


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## trainwreck

Also, are you using social networks like Facebook and Twitter? Do you have your website address on a business card? Do you hand those suckers out to anyone who will take one?


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## pashley

Some updates on this.

Sales are still bad. Getting decent traffic, no sales. That either means my product stinks, the price is too high - or some combination there of. Ok, fine.

I'm thinking about getting into a line of small ticket items geared towards women, in the $25 range, decorative items.

Also considering selling plans that I have created. Make a great product, put a decent amount of time into creating a nice plan, and selling it, for say, $12. Again, again, and again. Put the work in once, and keep selling it for years.

I'm capable of this, thanks to my computer, photography, writing and design skills; it is do-able.

I'd like to hear your considerate thoughts.


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## Loren

Your site is loading slow due to bloated image files being
shown as small thumbnails. Use images only as big as they
are displayed to optimize load time. Slow load times harm SEO 
results due to Google algorythm., alienate visitors on mobile 
devices and other slower connections. Plenty of folks who 
can afford your work have slow internet because broadband 
is not available in many rural areas.

"That either means my product stinks, the price is too high - or some combination there of."

There are other possibilities as well. The most probably is you
aren't reaching your market, aren't getting your site bookmarked
by browsers, aren't driving return traffic with an opt-in list, 
and more.


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## Tennessee

Pashley, I hope you get to read this after 126 postings!
Here's my humble take on the whole thing…

I once found myself in an argument with another luthier who makes a much wilder and better guitar than I do, but charges 4-5 times what I charge.
I think he charges too much for this economy, but in fairness, he is in the same ballpark as a top end Gibson, about $2800 to $3500. They are dying, I have a constant backlog.
Being a Sales Person by day trade, and having run successful furniture businesses, I tried to write him a dissertation on why his guitars were not selling, and mine are.
It's copied in below. Take it for what it's worth. I think the parallels are scary…Just substitute in "clock" for guitar, and every time you see XXXXX, that's New Mission Clocks.

Why are your guitars not selling
Issues:
-Price - Do people perceive the value in this guitar? Key word being "perceive", not true value. We know it's worth money, but how much will the market bear? "Perception becomes Truth"

Style - Understanding how the guitar player mind thinks. Innovation is asked for, yet an overriding amount of tradition is demanded. Where is the tradition in the XXXXX guitar? What makes it traditional and how to present that over the current body style. (tone, quality of components they can identify with, staying in tune, playability) But we would all admit that over half the guitars sold in the US are also sold on looks as much as sound. How does the "look" of a XXXXX really fare against say, a Gibson Les Paul sunburst, or any other company you might go head-to-head with? What do the people tell you? Have you asked, save for on the forums? The 1000 followers on Facebook are jaded. 
Tsunami Guitars get beat up on the upper level forums, but I also build for these people - so their online opinions are technically worthless, while their checkbooks speak volumes. Something else is in play. A perceived value? Maybe owning something different? Nowhere else to get this product? What would make it sell?

Time to market - Guitars are generally impulse buys, that's why guitar players own many of them. If you want a dealer network, are you ready for stock sales NOW? They are not portrayed as a custom shop guitar, so how long for a delivery? Anything over a week for delivery becomes a problem.

Presentation - How do your sales people present? 
Is it…This is the best, 
Or is it…let me explain why this is a better value. Huge difference in presentation.

Understanding the customer base - who is it? Where do they live? How much disposable income do they have? What is their lifestyle? Gigging vs. non-gigging? How about collectors? Does the XXXXX demographic even exist? If not, how to create one? (Creating is a whole different subject.)

Knowing what geographic would buy this product - obviously have not found that group yet. Is this a Nashville, or New York, or Los Angeles, Tokyo, or maybe a Paris guitar? Where would it be accepted? Market focus. You don't see many Cadillac dealerships in West Virginia. And there are many less motorcycle dealerships in Iowa since there it is flat and boring, and farmers favor four wheels. Tsunami Guitar is a small town guitar. It caters to a lower class. Biggest city I've sold a guitar in was Sacramento. None to New York, Los Angeles, no big cities. Latest Tsunami Guitar deposit came from a man in Chaska, Minnesota.

Understanding the value chain to minimize price, maximize profit in today's economy.
-Used to be: Cost + Profit = Price
-Now it is: Price - Cost = Profit 
Is your price restricting sales, or the guitar, or the sales people because of not having the perceived value? Need to know to change that metric!

Making people believe they are getting their money's worth (Why do people buy a Cadillac made by the same union people as Chevy?) 
Learning that perception and taking advantage of it. 
Arnold Palmer owns a Cadillac dealership. 
Mike Ditkus owns a Pork Chop restaurant! 
Morgan Freeman owns a Blues Club and BBQ restaurant on the Mississippi. 
They are all successful because different groups of people BELIEVE they are getting value, otherwise they would not purchase. 
But is a Cadillac really worth $20,000 more than a comparable Chevrolet? In the correct demographic, yes…again, WHAT is that demographic?

The Harley WOW Factor…Harley Davidson has 50% of the motorcycle market in the USA, yet study after study shows that Harley's spend way more time being fixed than all other brands combined! What has Harley done that would make a couple ride an air-cooled bike down the road in 90 degree heat, vibrating and sweating their asses off, when they could get on a nicer appointed Goldwing with water cooling, silky smooth ride and no engine heat? For less money than the same thing in a Harley! Discover that WOW factor in XXXXX Guitars.

Lastly - have you discovered who you are competing with? 
Is it the boutique builder who can do whatever the customer wants for a comparable price?
Or is it the upper level Gibson Les Paul's that sell for $3-5000?
Is it the Fender Custom Shop?
Valley Arts?

Your marketplace is dependent upon the public seeing you as more value added against something they can now buy before they will buy you, since XXXXXX has no history. (45 guitars does not make a history)
So who would you compete against in a market where a person has $2500 to $3500 to spend on an instrument of a lifetime? 
Or a well-off person looking for that special unit, something different that makes them go WOW.
WHAT ELSE ARE THEY LOOKING AT AND EVENTUALLY BUYING? DO YOU EVEN KNOW?

CONCLUSIONS: 
1. You have not established the perceived value necessary to sell these in any quantity.
2. You have not determined the proper geographic area, nor the demographic within that geographical area.
3. You have not properly worked through the value chain of "Price - Cost = Profit".
4. You may have given people too much time to think about what they want in a guitar, and then they get cold feet when they realize the cost. (Goes to the impulse buy)
5. You have spent too much time doing the wrong things for this economy.
It might have been better to start with a much, much cheaper unit, and then later added a custom shop unit that is equal with what you are trying to sell now.


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## pashley

I found this book online, "Profitable Woodworking" at Google, which gives some tips on what sells, and how to sell it festivals, galleries and so on, targeted towards the woodworker. I think it's worth a look.


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## stefang

I'm not a marketing guy, but just off the cuff I would say larger pictures and less text. Also something maybe interesting. My son who is a successful advertising man with his own agency told me this evening that he thinks many special interest websites will be replaced by Facebook or something like it in the future. I didn't have time to discuss this at length and frankly I don't really know anything about Facebook, so I'm not entirely sure what he's getting at, but you might think about how you can use Facebook to generate interest in your products.

I am really impressed with the beauty and craftsmanship your products appear to have, so I can only think you are not getting enough exposure. Good luck whatever course you take!


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## Loren

"Profitable Woodworking" is not bad. It doesn't cover internet
marketing at all but it's a bucket of cold water dumped over the
head of the naive craftsman who believes the world should 
beat a path to his door if his work is good.

Jim Tolpin's "Working at Woodworking" is quite good in terms
of setting up a realistic plan to make money doing cabinets in
a small shop with no fancy tools.


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## REK

I just looked at your website, I am not an expert but I do an average of sale 1 per 1000 clicks thru e bay and etsy. Here are some points that might be helpful.

1) It is hard to navigate your simple page. If I am buying, I am looking for a products page on the top header simply marked products. That tells me your selling right off the bat.
2) I am looking for a wide variety, under clocks I want to see at least 15 different products.
3) Your stuff is a lot more high end that mine, I sell a item say 1 per 1000 clicks, rich people are rich all the time so you may need up to 3 or 4 thousand clicks per sale, which is a lot of traffic.

Your web site looks great, but it looks more social than retail. Good luck, I think you'll eventually find what works for your site!!! Great looking products with a nice style.


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## mporter

Ok, no offense with this post but if I were you I would lower my prices-big time. You have a lamp that is $175 on your site. I can do a production run of 10 lamps and by the time I am finished I bet I can make each one in under an hour. That includes glue up time. So I would charge around 50 each for the lamps, and let word of mouth sell them for me. I make rings and cutting boards and I sell them faster than I can make them. The rings I sell for 15 each and the cutting boards 40 each. I know other members on here charge 150-300 for rings and 100-200 each for there cutting boards. I would rather be busy than sitting on top of inventory. After you get your business going-start raising the price. This is what all businesses do.


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## ssnvet

I surfed your site and like your work….

I think you need to display it in an antique gallery. Either on consignment for lease a booth.

I have a retired lady friend who is part of a co-op gallery, where each member is alloted a specific amount of display space and then they each spend one day a month tending shop.

The gallery you display in has to be in an upscale tourist villlage (think Bar Harbor, ME) or in a town that is know for antiques (i.e. 12 antiique stores within a 1/4 mile)

People who poke around in antique galleries will be the type to appreciate Mission and Arts & Crafts style and appreciate its' value.

Read Thomas Mossier's bio….. he get's premium dollar for cherry Mission furniture. He has a galleries in NYC, San Fran, etc… (i.e. places where people have money). Yet all of his production is done in Maine.

Don't be shocked if the people who own galleries and are willing to display your work expect to make more money on it than you do though. They are bringing something vary valuable to the party that you are having great difficulty finding….. PAYING CUSTOMERS.

Once you've got a name for yourself, you can selll direct from your web site.


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## pashley

*Bob Kollman* I agree on the products page comment. I also need to make this something women would be attracted to, as they buy just about all the stuff.

*mporter* I disagree on basically all of your comment. Having made that lamp several times, I can tell you there is no way you can make a complete one, with glue up in one hour. Cut the parts? Maybe. The vertical shaft has a rather complicated joinery that keeps all pieces at right angles, AND allows a shaft down the center. $175 is not a bad price for that, believe me, given the time it takes, probably more like 3 hours. Rings and cutting boards are easy to make, no offense, and nothing I'm interested in making. Price is a funny thing; you charge too little, people think it's worth less; if you charge more, they think it must be something great. Besides, I'd rather maker $100 on one piece, and $50 on two of the same pieces.

*ssnvet* Yes, the hard part is finding customers.


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## Loren

I don't think price cutting will solve your sales problem. It
certainly won't help you make more money by doing more
volume. The arithmetic of price cutting to increase
sales volume proves in most every case that the tactic is
flawed.

There are a couple of books about how to charge higher
prices and get them which are worth reading for the person
who is serious about making money.


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## mporter

Pashley,
You know its funny-you seem very passionate about your lamp on here, but not on your website? If it is so complicated, tell your customers on your website. If the joinery is complicated, have some pictures of it on your site! As a customer I cannot tell any of that from the info given on your site. I didn't mean to make you mad about it-I was just saying that if you do a production run on them, you would be surprised by how much time it saves you. As far as the price, it depends on what area you are in.


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## RussellAP

My first impression of the web site was, -too many words, not enough pictures. People need to get hooked on the first thing they see on your page.
Put the product out there and let them drill for the words. 
Sometimes having a 'professional looking page' is counter productive. You need to capture them in the first couple seconds. 
When I'm drilling for something on a page, I need to see it first, not read about it.

Also, take pictures of the clocks in their settings, like a nice wall with some plants and other things that people like. A place where you'd expect to see a clock.


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## dhazelton

Sorry if this has been mentioned, I can't read all 137 comments as I'm imbibing, but my wife had a cooking blog and had no followers to speak of. She started using Pinterest and suddenly she has thousands of hits.


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## RussellAP

Also, wordpress and blogger are terrible places for any kind of interaction.
A dedicated webpage would be better. Something on a popular domain.


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## Tennessee

Pashley, I have to agree with mporter. I made a ton of furniture of all types before I got into guitars, and from a value standpoint, geometry and all, I just don't see $175. Looks like about what, nine pieces of wood, maybe 3 bd. ft. tops? And no shade? Lamp guts are wholesale at what, $4-6 dollars? Even if it takes you 3 hours, at $30 an hour, $6 for the guts, $12 for the wood, $6 for sandpaper and finish, you are still at only $114 and you made $30 an hour payment to yourself and shop to get it to the shipping point. Tacking on another 35% pure profit seems excessive for a one man shop. I know I'll get slammed for this, but that's where I am at in this economy.


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## MrsN

I think the price is fine, you just need to find the people who want a lamp (or clock). There is an antique/speciality lighting store in our historic/trendy downtown. I don't think there is a single piece in the store for less then $200. My attoryney has several in her house, and a couple of them are terrible lights as far as a light source goes, they just look cool.


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## Spofeo

i think that selling from a store is the way to go, i have the same problem as you, but working on getting my products out on a shelf  after looking through your website, i was just sitting with a big smile, when i saw your gnomedoors! very nice idea


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## wormil

At first glance it isn't obvious that you are selling anything. The clocks link at the top doesn't take you to a products page; ditto for Gnome doors. I was about to give up when I clicked the clock link, in small type, halfway down the right side, under categories. Put your products on your home page or at least link to them in some big obvious way that says, "HEY, I'M SELLING OVER HERE!" Really like the Keene btw.


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## bondogaposis

I found your website somewhat difficult to navigate in that the products seemed scattered around the site. I found it difficult to figure out exactly what all of your products are. I agree w/ others that you need a products page where all products and prices are linked to a shopping cart. Another thing to consider is that you are operating in a niche market. You need to reach people that are interested in buying arts & crafts style, to reach those people you need to link your site to other sites that are selling arts & crafts stuff. Perhaps a link to publications like American Bungalow.


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## patcollins

I went to your website, your work is top notch.

BUT, if i didnt already know this was a store I would have no idea it was a store from looking at it.


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## Elizabeth

Agreed with the above; I went to your site and thought it was a blog rather than a store. After hunting around, the only thing I could find for sale was a gnome door with a "Buy it Now" button - but no price shown.


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## pashley

Wow, I'm glad I received this input. I guess I suffer from a type of designer's blindness. Ok, I'll fix this stuff, and let you know here, and see what you think…


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## REK

Pashley, one more note about selling, when I started to sell I gave a way below market value price. I then proceeded to up my price. Over the course of 3 years I have raised my prices consistently. My sales have increased not decreased. I am doing this part time with the idea of going to full time at some point. I started selling items at cost to build interest, But I did this to just gain experience in dealing with customers and to learn marketing. It has helped me a lot, and maybe you could benefit from that approach.


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## pashley

*Bob Kollman* what kind of things were you selling?


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## pashley

I've made quite a few changes everyone; I hope you'll take a look, and see if I have made it more clear that I am selling products, and that pricing and ordering opportunities are pronounced.

http://newmissionworkshop.com/


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## Bertha

What sells? In my area…crack. 
I think you have a wonderful website. I'm more that a bit surprised that you're not knee deep in orders.


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## DS

This is quite an interesting discussion.

Since I work strictly on commission, all the things I build are pre-sold.
I've yet to make something with the idea of trying to sell it AFTER it's made. 
Anything I make that isn't already sold, is likely to be something for around the house, or perhaps something as a gift.

I suppose it can be difficult to image wooden items that other people might pay for at a boutique, or crafts fair. To me, if I want such an item, I would simply make it and be done with it.

Other crafts, to which I am less adept, I wouldn't hesitate to buy something, if I want it more than the money in my pocket.

I suppose knowing what people want to pay for and you being willing to adjust your business model to it, would be essential for sales in any market.


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## WoodSpanker

A website is a good start, I suggest a multi-pronged approach. In addition to the website, like you said up there, get some pices in stores, go on ETSY, heck, even work the fairs if your going to be going to them anyway! Its what I do, and Im putting a kid through college with it.


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## pashley

What, no comments on the changes I made on the website?

I think it's a quite a bit better, but would like feedback.

FYI, thinking about changing my clock faces to etched copper; I think it would add a lot of value to the clocks. Also, thinking about getting into higher-end, copper topped bird feeders, going for the ladies-trying-to-make-their-yards-look-pretty demographic….

Here's a sample of one I did….


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## mikema

pashley, I looked at the website, and it is much more obvious you are trying to sell the stuff you make rather than to simply showcase your projects. One thing I noted is it doesn't appear you are utilizing google analytics. This is a great tool to have on your website to help search engine optimization (SEO) which will help drive traffic to your website. Also do some homework on SEO in general, and that will give you some guidelines you can use to help drive more of the *RIGHT* traffic to your website.


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## Tennessee

I did the same thing as Bob Kollman on pricing, and now work like DS251 on no pre-building. I build guitars. Since I have raised my prices about 40% in the last two years, business has just changed customers somewhat, more of the people I deal with now actually have money. But I also suffered from the economy, just had a three week dry spell, then last night a guy showed up with a deposit, another called for a doubleneck, and then a guy e-mailed for a price on a Tennessee shaped build. But then gas is coming down again. Discretionary income is coming up a little.
As far as making stock ahead of time, I do keep two units for people to try out, just to get a feel for my work. Then they tell me what they want for themselves. If they are too far away from my shop, they look at my website which contains pictures of almost every guitar I've built, and I often get piece of this, piece of that to form their "dream guitar". Works pretty well.


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## Tennessee

Oh, one other thing - I keep my Facebook page VERY active. As of this morning, about 300 people are following it, and it has been as high as 700. I sell a lot of guitars off that Facebook page.


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## MrsN

I tried to check out your website from work, but the firewall won't let me see anything. I will check later tonight


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## chrisstef

It looks to be a well built site in my opinion. I like the testimonials from satisfied clients. The only suggestion i might make is instead of listing the price for a mission cloack at $175 maybe you give the customer a "starting from" price leaving the door open for upgrades. BTW i really like the etched copper in that pic. Justification on the pricing may help (ie: swiss made mechanisms). I might even throw in a link to your local sawyer so they can see the entire liniage of the product. Just throwin stuff out there.


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## bondogaposis

I would say that your website is much improved. I hope that you are successful.


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## Richforever

My suggestion: narrow the market segments to 3 or less. Know what the feeling is that people in each segment want to buy. Attach that feeling (for example, "tradition", "uniqueness", etc.) to the products. When people buy stuff, they are really buying a feeling. Most businesses don't do marketing, so they just advertise features. 80% of prospects cannot translate features into benefits (feelings), so most advertising is wasted money.

If you target a market; advertise the feeling that that market wants; price the products in the range that they associate with getting that particular feeling; you will be very successful.


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## wormil

Huge improvement to the website, much easier to navigate and less messy. I didn't even see the gnome doors the first time.


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## BTimmons

The redone website looks really cool. Perhaps put more than one item on the front page, lest people think you only do clocks.

Rich, that's very interesting advice. I'll have to remember that.


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## BlauSchuh

I think the positives have already been outlined here by others, so I'll be the negative-nancy. this may seem like I'm nit picking/overly critical, but why harp on the positive.

- To me, the website seems pretty blah. If I was looking for a cool clock and I clicked on your site, I think I may be off to the next one before spending much time looking. Maybe it's the white background that does it, just something doesn't knock me back upon seeing the page load. Customers want to *wow'd* with something when the page loads. otherwise they are off to the next site.

- That stock font at the top and in your menus…. not a fan. I think the fact you're using whatever stock font that is available detracts from the website. It looks amateurish. I would invest some time into a cool logo. Maybe something that looks like a hand carved sign, or an actual snapshot of a sign you carved. I don't know exactly what, but something unique. maybe work in a the face of a clock or something. who knows, but please Kick that Times new Roman to the curb

- I'm a prospective customer and have my heart set on that clock on the main page… I clicked on your front page clock and all i got was a larger picture of the clock. I was expecting to be sent to the details on the clock. argg. I then click on the craftsmen clocks link and I have to scroll down to see the clock. peoples attention spans on the web are close to 0. On the other hand, people need to scroll past the other two clocks to see the one on the main page… At the very least put a *click for details* link RIGHT there on the main page to go right to *that* clock.

- what's the reason for the craft shows category? Is this site for selling product or discussing other products you don't sell… meanwhile I saw a cool cutting board that I'd like to buy. oh wait….

- cutting boards… why aren't you selling these online? easy to pack and easy to ship. Is there a reason not to? Make 5 of them and toss them up there. not a huge effort for a possible payback. meanwhile you can try and sell them at the craft shows.

- your shop notes blog goes to the same place as the craft shows link…. why??? I was interested in how you piece together these clocks. maybe a couple of bench pics with you making some shavings… nope.

- i havent read all of the previous responses, so maybe you've addresses this. already… But have you tried ebay at all? I'd post one clock up there and for a buck in listing fees you maybe get some traffic directed to your site. 30 day buy it now, and you can see if you get any viewers/watchers. I despise ebay but it can get you more exposure. slyly circumventing the ebay gestapo and getting people buy from your website seems to be the key.

-furniture. maybe a couple of variations on that lamp. i think the fact you only have 2 items, one that hardly can be considered furniture hurts.

- ha, those gnome doors are cool. I'd buy one if I had a tree.


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## Chrrriiis

have nt looked at ypur site as
im on a mobile connection but, how is your traffic, and who are they? If your not attracting customers, and particularly those who want to buy hand crafted items, then you need tp work on this. It cqn be a laborius prcess to manage on your own, particilalrly when you want to be in th workshop but you want to up your profile by using sites like facebook, ebay, etsy, youtube etc. These sites, once you have something attractive on them, can get your site more hits, and more buyers. The real question thouh is whether to invest all that time that could be used elsewhere. What do people want to buy, well what do you want to make for them? Once you have customers you can better evaluate this, but then attracing a virtual crowd too bu handmade, that's not easy. I find looking a good sellers on sites like etsy and ebay interesting, but bear in mind that many of these have shopfronts and existing client bases, in addition to good ideas for their works.


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## pashley

I came across an interesting classroom video on Etsy, and heard something I'd thought I'd share.

This one shop's best seller was a cheaper item - for us, something like cutting board, for example. Makes sense, right?

However, the second most popular seller was - the highest priced thing in her shop - something like 10x more expensive.

I believe this was a jewelry shop. Doesn't matter. The point was, this seller was capturing both the people that want cheaper items, and the customer that wants the high-end items. So, you should have both a "gateway" product, and a high-end product. Reminds me of loss-leaders that retail stores do….


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## helluvawreck

The hardest thing about getting to where you have a successful website is creating traffic to it. That takes a lot of hard work and time. There are books on how to get traffic to a website and sell things on a site. You can also make simple one line ads in ladies magazines just using a few key words and listing the website name. Craft fairs also help because even if someone doesn't purchase something you can hand out your card with your web address. I believe there is an article about selling woodcrafts in the new Creative Woodworks and Crafts Magazine although I haven't read it.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## lumberjoe

I'm not in the woodworking business, this is a hobby for me, but I am an IT professional that services most of the fortune 100 companies and their websites. You're problem isn't your products. Do some serious research on SEO (search engine optimization) and PPC (pay per click). I'm not going to get in to everything because it would take hours to explain, but research shows more than 3/4 of people buy a product fromone of the the first 5 links that shows up from a search or referring website - regardless of price.

Don't assume people are smart


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