# Looking for simple explaination on wiring size for 3 hp single phase motor?



## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Hey LJ's,

Started to look at assembly instructions and specifications for my new 3 hp dust collector.

This is after I struggled and succeeded running two 30 amp lines, 30 feet through 1/2 inch metal conduit , had an *electrician consult*, screwed up bending the conduit but got it on the 3rd try. Walked back and forth, pushed and pulled and finally was successful.

On to setting up my new 3 hp Grizzly dust collector. Also a new remote 220 3.5 hp Long Ranger from PSI ( *Dust Collector in a Garden Shed next to the shop).*

Looking inside the remote receiver I found wires of the type I use to wire a door bell? Can these handle the load from the motor? Then look at specifications regarding the line cord for the dust collector? 14 awg????? Won't that be harmful?

I'm running number ten awg wire to the outlets per electrician suggestion for 3 hp motor.

The specs for grizzly are a 20 amp circuit? Hugh?

Have looked on other forum topics regarding wiring. And some engineering sites that even suggest a 14 gauge wire at the end leg of a circuit run without ground fault as it's 3 wire.

*Somewhere I have read that smaller wire sizes and cause loss of efficiency and overheating wear on the motor? Being that the Dust Collector will be the most run motor I want to keep it healthy and efficient.*

My second concern is about the small wire sizes in the remote which is supposed to be designed for a 3.5 hp motor?

I'm setting it up and do not want to do this again. so I thought I'd pose the questions here and see if I'd get a tech savvy relatively simple answer. LOL!

Thanks!


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## darthford (Feb 17, 2013)

The remote likely only draws a fraction of 1 amp to activate a relay, likely a magnetic relay, which is the switch that turns the dust collector motor on/off when you operated the remote. So the coil side of the relay (what makes the relay switch open and close) uses very little current hence a small gauge wire.

Now that said for the motor side of this yeah heavy gauge wire. Be advised dust collectors can draw a LOT of peak current at start up and trip a breaker that's too close to the rated amp draw. I had the smaller Grizzly cyclone at one point, wired 220v to a 20 amp circuit it kept tripped the circuit breaker. It was drawing a peak of 50 amps at start up. I ended up going with a 30 amp circuit breaker, may have even been a slow trip type that allows for that brief peak amp draw at start up without tripping.


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## CRAIGCLICK (Mar 14, 2018)

Don't really have much to add EXCEPT, next time you have to pull wire thrpugh conduit, use this…you can thank me later!


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

darthford,

Did your machine have a 14 awg line cord?

Thanks, I am going forward.

Tanks for your thoughts, still looks like a pretty flimsy power switch.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

CRAIGCLICK,

Yep, used it still a struggle, but I had the 1/2 inch conduit from past projects.

Thanks!


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Fishtape make life easy fo shizzle

14/3 SJOOW cord has a maximum ampacity of 18A. 3HP motor rates at 17A. Aside from the obvious, I should know how to explain this right but it's late and my brain hurts.

Typically, if it's part of a listed assembly you only worry about the cord end, if that. Pretty sure a bunch of grizzly stuff isn't listed but I'm just gonna roll with my first answer for now. There maybe be codes that apply but I can't think of them at the moment.


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## go4tech (Aug 5, 2015)

Believe that you are attempting to sort from a wrong direction.

1) Use a 2 pole, 240V, >30A contactor (like: Packard C240B Packard Contactor 2 Pole 40 Amps 120 Coil Voltage) ~$9,
2) Put the contactor inline with the line to be switched. Hot side to input and Load to Switched side.
3) Get a cheap, low wattage RF wireless switch that will switch 110V (like: Woods 32555WD Outdoor Wireless Remote Control Kit, Weatherproof, 100ft Range) ~$10 
4) Install the RF Switch in series from the hot input side to the coil voltage (use 110V to match the pull in coil voltage if switching 220V). (Recommend taking apart the housing to get to the actual switched leads. My case was very easy to do.). If wanted, you can use actually outlets, but gets large that way. 
5) Works like a champ!

How it works:

RF link closes a 110V switch connected to the pull in coil. 
Pull in coil closes the main contactor.

The current in the pull in coil is very low. Does not stress the the capacity of the RF controlled switch.
Motor operation current is handled by the Contractor side. Designed to be hot switched.
Will last for years.

Hope this helps.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

go4tech,

Thanks. It's interesting that out of more than 3000 views I got 4 close answers. I already have the Lone Ranger and I don't believe I can return it as I have had it for awhile thinking it would do the job. It may or may not, and I can investigate your recommendation.

What are your thoughts on the input cord ?

Thanks!


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Fridge, Thanks for your headache input. I'm thinking number 12 or higher line cord.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I have a 115v cyclone and another dc I use for 
heavier work. For the cyclone I ran a wire for 
a ceiling drop with a switch on it. In that case
it actually interupts the current, but I suspect 
what your high-tech remote is doing is tripping
a switch close to the motor.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

If you want more details about a remote like go4tech described, here is a good write up. Realizing you have what you have and ,might not be interested….but one day if you (like i did) drop your FOB once to often onto the concrete floor, you might find it doesn't work anymore. As for the cord, I'm surprised they would put 14 gauge on a 3.5 HP motor. I'd want that to be at least 12 gauge, but that's just me.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

Not sure which one you have, but the specs for both the 3hp DC systems at the Grizzly site state that the motor draws 12A… so 14ga will work, but 12ga would be much better IMO.

Cheers,
Brad


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Loren,

Thanks, I'm problem solving with the help of LJ's I worked in electronics since I was a kid. What I am wanting to do during the installation of hopefully a more efficient ,healthier dust collection is not have overload on the motor. I am down to the assembly of the dust collector and found what I believed from my past to be a potential problem.

I have learned some new information I should have gotten before purchasing the supposed high end remote.

Wire diameter is like a water pipe a bigger motor needs more juice/amperage. Did not see how this was going to work, but I can't return the remote as I have had it too long.

I also have limited funds so I'm doing this myself. LOL!


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Fred,

I may need the information if my high end remote craps out???? Not laughing here.

Thanks


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Brad,

I've pushed and pulled as well as screwed up some conduit and I have more than 30 feet of number 10 wire to account for load drop due to distance only to find lamp cord in a nice case for the last 6 feet.

As you know Murphy has residence in my shop. So I am doing my best to remember all of his lessons planning and making sure. I also had a licensed electrician recommend what he would do and that will pass code.

Thanks for checking out what Grizzly recommends.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

> Not sure which one you have, but the specs for both the 3hp DC systems at the Grizzly site state that the motor draws 12A… so 14ga will work, but 12ga would be much better IMO.
> 
> Cheers,
> Brad
> ...


Ditto.


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## go4tech (Aug 5, 2015)

Sorry Doc, was out earring a living (or at least attempting to…).

Do not know about PSI long Ranger. If you are talking about this: https://www.pennstateind.com/store/LR220-3.html, would believe that it much like the one in the article identified by Mr. Hargis (except slated to work on 220 without the natural line for 110).

Would highly expect the "input line" to be 12ga wire (not a code expert. Recall when putting 220 in my shop, used 12ga wire). Would believe the contactor is across the "Line In" and "Load Plug" (where you plug the Dust Collector in).

Believe you indicate there is a "thin wire" inside the remote receiver.

Not knowing exactly (do not believe the plug on the end of the extension cord is a four blade connector - 4th blade is a common) they maybe using contactor with a 220V pull in coil and a 220V low current switch. If not, they may step down the voltage to 24V(or lower) with a transformer to match the pull in coil requirement.

Since you mention "door bell wire", would anticipate that there is a small, low current transformer to step the voltage down. The "Door bell Wire" is switched (Rx end of the wireless link) and across the pull in coil. If this - would not be worried. Current basically flows through the "door bell wire" to energize the pull in coil that closes the main contact. The sustained current in the door bell wire is low. The real current being used by the dust collector is going through the plug to the contactor to the output plug.

Would also politely say that "door bell wire" will effectively melt with 13 amps going through it (think about tungsten wire foam cutter).

If more is wanted, please advise.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Thanks,

This is what I purchased 
https://www.amazon.com/PSI-Woodworking-Products-LR220-3-Collector/dp/B004JZWK3W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1523427900&sr=8-1&keywords=long%2Branger%2Bdust%2Bcollector%2Bswitch%2B220v&dpID=51geFFcQ%252BbL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch&th=1

Have to see clients for next few days.

Thinking about a picture of the inside of it?

I have the Long Ranger which worked well on my 1.5 hp delta 110v

Thanks for your follow up!


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## WhyMe (Feb 15, 2014)

> Brad,
> 
> I ve pushed and pulled as well as screwed up some conduit and I have more than 30 feet of number 10 wire to account for load drop due to distance only to find lamp cord in a nice case for the last 6 feet.
> 
> ...


30 feet is nothing as far as producing voltage drop, you didn't need #10, #12 was fine. Also how many conductors did you pull in the 1/2" conduit? I assume for two circuits, four #10's and one #10 ground, or did you use the conduit for the ground?


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## go4tech (Aug 5, 2015)

Thank you. That was helpful. Was able to find a wiring diagram: https://www.pennstateind.com/library/LR2244_Wiring2.pdf

For 220V, Single Phase, would recommend:
Bring in 12ga wires (can use 10ga if available) from the wall (aka - "Line") to terminals L1 and L3 per instruction # 8. 
Take out 12ga wires (can use 10ga if available) to your Dust Collector (aka - "Load") from terminals 1/2 and 5/6 per instruction #11.
Connect the green earth lines to ground per instructions #8 and #11.
Install Appropriate NEMA connectors on Line (with the metal tabs) and Load (receptacle without the tabs) as needed.

The path of the Dust Collector Motor current will be via L1/L3 though the contactor, through the metal tabs connecting the Contactor to the Current Limit Sensor to Terminals 1/2 and 5/6. Any other currents will be much, much lower.

If concerned, please see "*This unit should be installed by a qualied electrician. Make sure that the power is disconnected during set up, except for programming of unit." at top of instructions. 220V has enough force to do real damage.

Would strongly believe there is a transformer of some type installed on the line side to power the RF electronics (not shown in wiring diagram - not wanting us playing with it). These will have smaller wires as they are not carrying significant current(s).


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

go4tech,

Thanks!

The diagram is all that comes with it. I had planned to upgrade the last 6 feet to the maximum wire size that fits the terminals. They are smaller than the general wire terminals on the receptacles.

Have to see clients tomorrow but I plan to take a picture to give some visual size perspective which is lacking from the one dimensional wiring diagram.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Posting some pictures to reference against the 2 dimensional wiring diagram. hold down connector screws seem small compared to a recepticle


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## go4tech (Aug 5, 2015)

Got it.

These white and black wires are on the coil pull in side. They are not handling any of the Dust Collector Motor running current. They are just providing the voltage (with a little current) to pull in the contactor.

You will need to connect the LINE input (think wires from the wall / breaker box / city power) to L1 and L3 connectors. The thin wires coming off of these points just provide the 220V for the pull in coil. These need to come off the LINE side to as such that they can be switched to turn the motor on and off.

The LOAD side (wires to your Dust Collector) will be the bottom connectors (below and left of the green current sensor limit select screw).

You mentioned pulling wire thought conduit. These should be single, insulated wires (not jacketed as in a extension cable or romex ). If one understands the original post, these are the LINE side of the system.

You can use SOOW12/3 wire (12 ga 3 wires with a flexible jacket - see your local big box store) to get to your Dust Collector. Use a NEMA receptacle, plug the Dust Collector into it and all will be well. (Use a 20 foot 220V extension cord with SOOW12/3 in my shop).

If you would like more, please PM me.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Go4tech,

Thanks,

Have 12 gauge to upgrade line cord on Dust collector. Code requires a shut off switch in Garden shed. Also have interior romex.

Will be checking back when more time available.


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