# CHARLES NEIL BLOTCH CONTROL



## teenagewoodworker

I'm getting mine tomorrow. Very Excited!


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## dfletcher

Wow, looks great. I am going to get some here soon. I am becoming a real fan of Charles.


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## RjGall

I second that WOW!! I'm sold gotta get some for sure.


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## boboswin

Nice job Jim.
I think this product will make a lot of folks really happy with their projects.
Nothing stings me more than a bad finish after hours of joinery and sanding.

I have a couple of areas of technique to work on but essentially I got results very similar to yours.


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## sandhill

Hey Jim? What size can is that? What coverage will it do? I am doing a kitchen and was wondering how much I would need.


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## ND2ELK

I plan on buying this product for the crib and dresser I am building. Good to hear it is a great product. Thanks for posting.

God Bless
tom


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## a1Jim

Hey Sandhill
It's one quart that covers 2 coats of 50 sq ft.
Charles told me it's great for making plywood and hardwoods match . So that's great for cabinet work.


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## Karson

Jim, sounds like a great product.

Fantastic review.


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## Eric_S

I saw his video but so far have only seen results directly from Charles with his OWN product so I've been a bit hopeful but skeptical (no offense meant to Charles). However, seeing that piece from you makes me want to use this before I BLO my cherry nightstands(only a few more weeks away from glue up I think). I was thinking of using a sealer before oiling it to begin with, but I wasn't sure what type to use.

Thanks Jim.


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## grizzman

i am amazed with how this preformed..its on the buy list..thanks charles and thanks jim for doing a great review…this really does change the choices we have had to make with wood choice's..super….....


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## Abbott

That's pretty amazing.


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## araldite

I got mine a couple of weeks ago and can confirm the claims. So far I've only used it on polar also.


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## Brad_Nailor

I wonder if it would work that well on hard maple…but that test is impressive.


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## a1Jim

I think he does maple in the video in the link above


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## CharlesNeil

I feel awkward responding to this, but this is LJ"s , home for me, so tell ya what, post your questions and In the morning I will answer them all, and if i say anything that you find to be not correct , or doesnt work for you i will refund your $ as well as your shipping… 
Eric-s no offense taken , I assure you , I totally agree, we have all been stung bad by false claims… and garbage .. 
but to get a head start,,, yes it does as well on hard maple, soft maple as it did on the poplar
eric-s .. dont think its a good idea with BLO , this is a product that creates a seal, while oil base stains will work well , blo is designed to penetrate , this prevents that .

I will also tell you this, barring some unforseen event, this product will not be in "stores" , the reason is simple , we have a very narrow profit margin here, and the retailers would make the price almost double, Im not going to do it, I developed this , true, but like you Im a woodworker, and the shipping is bad enough, so we will do what we can to get it to you as cheap as we can.. I promise… see you in the morning


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## a1Jim

That's great get the info right from Charles


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## bigike

both look good to me but the one on the bottom is very clear. I have to get some myself i think i will right now! Thanks jim for the review. I got his router bit too i still haven't used it but i think i will this weekend i want another one of those.


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## bowis

I am working on a cherry sideboard right now that has curly drawer fronts and door panels, so this product seemed like just the thing. I ordered a can a few weeks back, and got it promptly. I just haven't had a chance to test it out yet - will do that soon and post my results. Cherry (especially figured) is notorious for blotching, so this sounds like the perfect antidote.


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## Marc5

Thanks Jim - I got mine last week and looking forward to giving it a go.


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## FatherHooligan

Thanks Jim for the review and thanks Charles for clearing upwhether or not I should be using BLO and your product. I wonder if I can get it in Canada?


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## Tim_456

sorry for my ignorance, but what's BLO? Will this work with any stain over it? I really enjoy working with poplar and being able to stain it w/o blotch would be fantastic.


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## a1Jim

It stands for boiled linseed oil. Charles will Field the other part of your question in the morning.


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## jerryo

Thanks for the review Jim. Proofs in your pictures. I'll be ordering mine soon


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## REK

I watched charles video, this seems to be quite an amazing product.


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## CharlesNeil

as to any stain, we have not found any it doesnt work with , even yellow can stuff.. as to figured cherry , i have some curly cherry that is almost quilted, it did well ,but test, on super figured cherry , sometimes it needed 3 coats.. ( have to fill those soft grains)

yes we ship it to Canada ..


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## buffalo689

thank you jim, and charles


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## JKC

Charles, in your video, the demo showing how it works on the yellow pine plywood really sold me. Very impressive.

Do you have any information on the shelf life of your Blotch Control?

Thanks


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## CharlesNeil

JKC we feel pretty good at 2 years.. but the longest it has sat for now is 6 months and no issue, it settles so stirring it well is needed , I use a glue brush to make sure all the goody in the bottom is well mixed.. it mixes up easily..


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## JKC

Sounds good.

How does it do on the infamous acidic red oak?


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## stefang

Thanks again Jim for educating us. I know next to nothing about finishing, but I've read that Shellac works well to prevent blotching. I was wondering if this was an ingredient in Charles product or if he has come up with something entirely unique? I suspect it is unique since I imagine that you really experienced woodworkers have tried shellac and know the difference, but I can't help being curious.


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## CharlesNeil

JKC it does fine on red oak, especially end grains, some times 3 coats to seal the heavy stuff, it also seals the pores and if using a oil you do not get the bleed back, because it cannot go in that deep to pool and then push back, it also keeps it from blistering when finishing because the grain is sealed and the internal air pockets are sealed off , but you want a good oil that dries.. not BLO or pure oils.. they dry too slow , something like Arm R seal or Waterlox work well

Stefang .. for years I have used shellac as well as 50/50 water base finish mixes, and every other thing, I love shellac,however it was never consistent, a 1/2 lb cut would work on one piece, be too much on another, it was a battle of constant testing , and then the results remained unsure.. this product is pure water base, which means it is compatible under anything as long as it is dry, ( over night, or as long as you want) , the difference is this product actually takes a stain, that's why Jim's sap wood , as well as the green , disappeared, it was because he was actually staining or in his case dying the prestain as much as the wood, to understand this creates a seal that is hard enough not to be penetrated easily, but yet softens enough to absorb colorants … if you use it on end grain, then give a quick 320 ( 2 coats) , the end grain will dye or stain to match not turn dark, works great as well on crotches , where i cannot see it working is on oily woods which don't need it any way… we also find we use far less finish because the finish isn't being absorbed , that's why BLo, and soft oils are not a good idea, not that they wont adhere , but because the wood isn't absorbing it,and will take forever to dry….. we also found on woods like quilted maple, and birds eye, one coat will give the definition and grain pop we want, but keeps the dye from bleeding out or migrating , and helps the figure be more defined.. and we are still experimenting


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## Tim_456

i've read enough..i'm ordering mine atm 

thanks to everyone for all the great info.


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## JonathanG

I am ordering this to put on the built-in bookcases and mantel since I'll be mixing rift-sawn white oak plywood for the carcass, with rift-sawn white oak hardwood for the faceframes, doors, and mantel.

I'm sure many of you will have results in before I do, as the construction phase has just begun, but I will report back on the results and of course, mention the use of the product in my novel length project description, as I always try to list as many details as I can.


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## HCC

Will you be offering this product in sizes larger than quart and are there any types of shipping, storage or usage restrictions for this product, I'm in CA so most the good stuff we're not allowed to play with just want to make sure if I order it it won't stop at the border.


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## CharlesNeil

brandon, this stuff has no issues , even in CA , we havent looked into larger quanity , but we could , right now we just have the qt sizes and some pints


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## JonathanG

Charles,

Having gone back through and reread everything, I will definitely be using this on the bookcases and mantel. Any suggestions upfront on whether 2 or 3-coats will suffice with the mixed used of riftsawn white oak and riftsawn hardwood white oak?

I know a test is the best way to figure it out, but I'm curious as to your approximation on the number of coats needed in my situation so that I know how much I need to order? I don't want to be caught short.

We will be going to at least narrow down our finish selection in the next couple of days, so any recommendations beforehand be helpful. It sounds like most things that aren't super-oily will work, but have you noticed anything working particuarly well? Thank you.


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## CharlesNeil

Jonathan , even minwax sticks, just let the stain dry well before if you are using a water base topcoat as with any oil let it dry well, my issue with the oil was more in using the true or BLO oils for a top coat , they just dont dry well, a good oil stain , dye or water base work well, alcohol and water base while working well especially alcohol, will try to soften the pre stain, so wipe it and walk away dont over work it,

usually two coats is all you need, endgrains on oak and very porous woods may need a third coat..but actually unless you have alot of sap wood , or off color boards , ( really works well for this), normally on oak you dont need it, oak doesnt blotch , in rereading your question I think your issue is mixed colors.. this will help alot . hope i answered your question.. if not ask away ,


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## JonathanG

Yes, you pretty much answered my question, mostly about compatibility of finishes, then how many coats I might need. I realize the oak isn't really going to blotch, it was more a matter of sealing the hardwood and plywood adequately so that the color would match since I'm mixing materials (the plywood is MDF core).

Thanks again, and I look forward to testing out your product.

And Jim, thanks for reviewing this and bringing it to everyone's attention.


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## CharlesNeil

Jonathan or anyone.. if you have any issues or questions…

[email protected]


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## mikega

Jonathan
Here is a test I did for a guy who could not get the red oak lumber to match the red oak plywood he was using.
You really had to look hard to tell which was the wood and which was the plywood. I'm sure you will be happy with your results.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/mikega720/Picture132.jpg


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## JonathanG

Mike, that's fantastic! Is the plywood on the right? Thanks for posting that comparison picture.

You've not only illustrated the point for me, but for anyone else possibly interested in a similar combination of hardwood and plywood.


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## mikega

Jonathan
Yes the plywood is on the right. Also the top stain is water base and the bottom is oil.


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## PCM

I purchased the blotch control with high hopes. It actually exceeded my expectations. I would highly recommend it.


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## TThomas

thanks jim great review sold me getting mine right nowwwwwwww


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## JFobare

Hey All,
Now I see the difference between the two, it looks like with the blotch control it covers the grain pattern and makes the board more uniform; my question is how will it effect figured woods or heavly grained woods where you want those characteristics to pop? Does it at all take away from it?
Joshua


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## a1Jim

Hi Joshua
I think a picture is worth a thousand words. Her'es a table that Charles used Blotch control on ,as you can see the figure is amazing 
http://intheworkshop.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/table-show-a-little-eye-candy/


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## JFobare

Thanks Jim much appreciated. I see your point those projects are beautiful.
Joshua


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## momalle3

I tried this, carefully following the directions, on a basswood guitar body. I attempted a sunburst finish using water based Transtint dyes. The results were really awful-lots of blotching and the product dissolved in the water soluble dye, leaving a gummy mess. Now I have to sand all this junk off and just paint what was a nice looking piece of wood. MAD!

I would have been better off just applying dye to bare wood. Do NOT recommend for this application


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## a1Jim

Something's weird here ,This is a first for me ,everyone I ever talked to said Charle's blotch control is great.


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## a1Jim

I'm guessing that the blotch control was not dry yet.


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## momalle3

> I m guessing that the blotch control was not dry yet.
> 
> - a1Jim


Possible, but it had been left for @18 hours. It may be that it needs more?

I think the problem was trying to do a sunburst style finish. It may be fine for a solid color stain, one wipe and done. But it was terrible for what I was doing. Worse than useless.

I'm nowhere near as experienced as many people here or as Charles Neil, so possibly it was user error, but I don't see what I did wrong


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## a1Jim

MoMalle3
Charles blotch control is water based if you are doing lots of brushing on top of it with another water base product it's very possible you had loosen and resolved the blotch control, This is possible with any "like on Like"(the same solvent base) finish. I have brushed water born finish on top of Charles blotch control without and problems,but doing long term brushing quite possible create the problems your experienced ,maybe even more possible if the blotch control was not dry,it's possible it could still have not cured if it was in a colder environment than it needs to be in to cure properly and or if the blotch control was left somewhere it could freeze.
I know how disheartening it is when you've gone to all the trouble to make a beautiful project and then have problems with the finish. All I know is that I've had lots of my students use Charles blotch control and so have I with superior results over all other wood conditioners we have tried previously.


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## momalle3

In this case I was wiping analine dyes dissolved in water-wiping lightly, but you need to get a gradual, blended edge. I was wiping gently. It'scpossible I needed to wipe a light coat, wait 24 hours, wipe the next coat, wipe 24 hours?

The other thing is the website, which I consulted pretty extensively after having this problem, says alcohol will dissolve it really quickly, which made me give up altogether-I finish with shellac, french polished, so I could just imagine the Blotch Control dissolving even faster and more nastily as I french-polished shellac on the guitar. How in the world are you supposed to use it with shellac if alcohol dissolves it even faster than water?

If I ever use this stuff again, which I likely won't, it will be with an oil base stain or a solid color I can wipe or brush on. I'm going to go back to using shellac as a conditioner

Note:

I found this, which basically says that it won't work the way I tried to use it

https://intheworkshop.wordpress.com/2012/04/17/applying-dyes-stains-over-my-blotch-control-prestain/#comment-50377


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## a1Jim

Not sure what website your refering to but why not go directly to the source,Charles is always more than willing to help

[email protected]

http://www.cn-woodworking.com/finishing-with-charles-neil/


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## CharlesNeil

I have responded at the end of this blog as well via email https://intheworkshop.wordpress.com/2012/04/17/applying-dyes-stains-over-my-blotch-control-prestain/

Unless spraying, alcohol or lacquer will dissolve it very quickly.


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## TheFridge

Good stuff


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## Plain

I've had good success with Charles Neil blotch control. But it is not ideal solution too. It adds a thin transparent film on the wood surface and the stain or dye is applied more to that film than to the wood. As the result the wood grain is less pronounced than without it. That is not too bad though.
What I disliked is that it is impossible to repair a small spot on stained wood. If for example you applied shellac directly over stained wood you can wash off a spot with denatured alcohol later and reapply it. Five minutes job.

With the blotch control it is not going to work. The alcohol will dissolve the film and wash out the stain so you will be left with a bare unpainted wood at the spot. You have to redo the whole piece, which includes removing all shellac and stain, resanding, reapplying the blotch control and shellac. That project can take you several days.


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## Plain

> The other thing is the website, which I consulted pretty extensively after having this problem, says alcohol will dissolve it really quickly, which made me give up altogether-I finish with shellac, french polished, so I could just imagine the Blotch Control dissolving even faster and more nastily as I french-polished shellac on the guitar. How in the world are you supposed to use it with shellac if alcohol dissolves it even faster than water?
> - momalle3


I've had zero problems french polishing a piece of hard maple over Charles Neil's stuff and General Finishes dye. When you apply very thin first coat of shellac the wood conditioner stuff just has no time to dissolve. The second coat has even less chance to be affected since there is already a dried layer of shellac. Anything beyond that is really not affected unless you try to mess it up.


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## CharlesNeil

its not designed to be used under alcohol products ,read the instructions, the pamphlet, its not designed to do what you are doing … Instructions and links are provided for a reason


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## Plain

> its not designed to be used under alcohol products ,read the instructions, the pamphlet, its not designed to do what you are doing … Instructions and links are provided for a reason
> 
> - CharlesNeil


In fact FAQ from the product page do state that you can use it under alcohol products #3 and not a word not to use it. This is way too important as alcohol/aceton products are very widely used so it would be fare to mention in your video and FAQ to not to use alcohol based top coats.


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## CharlesNeil

If the alcohol or other is sprayed. Not wiped


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