# Back pain from cement floor



## NH_Hermit (Dec 3, 2009)

I've had terrible back pain these past few days, and the only thing I can find to blame is the cement floor on the new workshop after working in it for the past three days. My old shop had tile over a plywood subfloor that was over insulation boards and I never had any trouble.

I'm wondering if anyone experienced this and what they did to find relief, this side of re-covering the floor. Any suggestions for good shop shoes?


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

John,

I spend a lot of my shop time at my workbench. When Woodcraft had a 1/2-off sale on their anti-fatigue floor mats, I got four of them for around the bench. This has helped a lot and they have saved the edges of several chisels that decided to dive off the bench.


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## scrollgirl (May 28, 2010)

Hi, John:
I found that those 2 ft x 2 ft square mats that they sell at Wal-Mart and Sam's Club or places like that are really helpful on the shop floors. They are quite inexpensive (about $20 per set of 4) and they do help pad the areas where you work most. They interlock like puzzle pieces and can be taken apart to store. I think they are about 3/4" or so dense foam. I found a picture of one piece for you:










I hope this helps somewhat. I think it both pads the floor and helps keep it a little warmer on your feet.

Take care, Sheila


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## LeeBarker (Aug 6, 2010)

There are several kind of mats to check out. I'm on the concrete every day, and have 5 separate soft spots: Front of the TS, front of the edge sander, front of the downdraft sanding table, front of and one end of the assembly table.

Some are solid with bevel edges. Some are perforated, Some are 24" squares that interlock jigsaw puzzle-style, and some are 12" squares that lock together and have separate bevel pieces so you can make notched type shapes (Dri-Dek is one brand name of these).

All of these are useful to me, bearing in mind that my collective feet are over 130 years old.

There's a nice selection herehttp://www.americanfloormats.com/anti-fatigue-mats/?gclid=CNvM3tnXw6UCFSg1gwodoAsbYQ. Pictures and descriptions.

I hope this helps. Happy Feet make for good woodworking, for sure.


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## IrreverentJack (Aug 13, 2010)

John, Look for the shop mat-flooring at the bargain-outlet places or cow/horse mats at the farm places. How are your boots? Too new or too old? Don't for get socks. I wear a cushioned hiking sock and it really helps. A friend of mine wears one of those back belts and loves it. Good luck. -Jack


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## ropedog (Mar 26, 2008)

Hey john I also have back pains and have put down the Homedepot anti-fatigue mates at every station in my shop, they really help and I can now work all day with them.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

I started with a few packs of Harbor Freight (sound familiar <grin> ?) 4-pack mats, but … eventually …. I shelled out about a hundred bucks for a Wearwell that sits in the "corner" created by my workbench and table saw.

Stays put. VERY comfortable. Seems darned-near oil-proof (though I'm pretty sure it's the "dry area" type).

Highly recommend it.


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

if your shop floor isnt to big…i would put some 2×2 sleepers down and put 3/4 ply over them…you will have nothing but problems with a concrete floor..maybe the mats are a cheaper fix..i dont know…ive got a wooden floor in my shop…so glad i didnt do a concrete pad…...good luck


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## terrilynne (Jun 24, 2010)

Along with the mats get some gel filled sole inserts for your shoes, about $12.00 a pair. These are a big help also.


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

Go to a restaurant supply store and buy some chef's mats. There are also gel mats.


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## SignWave (Feb 2, 2010)

I'm too cheap and lazy to put those mats all over the place, so I get the gel cushions for my shoes, instead. There's quite a difference for a minimal investment.

Also, you might want to think about ergonomics. For example, are you reaching in new ways to do things due to the arrangement of your new shop? Also, think about the height of your work surfaces. I find that if I'm working over a surface that is on the low side, my lower back hurts after a while.

Or what about temperature? is the concrete sucking up all the heat and causing tension in your body to make up for the heat loss?

Have you been working more than usual (perhaps trying to maximize the holiday downtime)? If you're pushing yourself more than usual, that might mean you need to take more breaks, stretch, etc.

The pain might not be from just one thing, but a combination of several things.

I hope you find some relief, and soon!


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## NH_Hermit (Dec 3, 2009)

Thanks for the replies. You've given me some ideas.

First, I too am cheap and lazy, so I'm going to try the gel cushions first.

and Signwave you hit the nail on the head about the cold concrete sucking out my body heat. My toes are still cold after a couple hours in the house, and yes I was trying to take advantage of the holiday weekend.

But Grizz does have a valid point too. My shop is 16'x20' and would take about 10 sheets of plywood to cover. I measured the distance from the floor to the door threshold to be 1", so 5/8" plywood, plus a possible installation of vinyl tile, would still leave a ¼". Would ½" plywood be a better way to go?

A quick guesstimate of the cost would be somewhere around $200 without the vinyl and about $250 for the vinyl.

Now is the best time to do it since I am through tiring out and repainting and about ready to build the wood rakes and wall shelving. This workshop will hopefully be used for many years to come (and Lee, I'll see your 130 combined years and raise you 4).

One of the many things I don't know is how to simply fasten the plywood to the concrete. A google search got me this video http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to-attach-plywood-concrete-as-floor-base-317480/ which looks simple enough, but I have never heard of express nails before and everything I looked for seemed to only available in Europe.

Has anyone used express nails, or is there a better (but still easy) method?


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## HCC (Mar 1, 2010)

If you're looking for the quickest way to attach wood to concrete you will be looking for Powder Actuated Nailers, if you want the most cost effective (provided you already own a power drill) TAPCONs would be best.


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## 8iowa (Feb 7, 2008)

John:

I have a concrete floor in my "Workshop in the Woods". Even though I do have several anti-fatuge mats, it is hard to not spend some time on the hard surface. When I find myself beginning to suffer a little bit, I pour a cup of coffee, and go outside and sit & enjoy for awhile.


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## barryvabeach (Jan 25, 2010)

John, I got real tired of the cold concrete, and the cheapest solution I found was laminate floor from BJ's - I think they sell it for around $1.00 a square foot, and I put some old carpet on top of that near my bench.


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## traupmann (Oct 8, 2010)

I've found that soft soled shoes (e.f.: Vibram) really help, as well as better posture. I suffer from a weak back also, A quick stool, high work surface, and soft shoes work well for me


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

John, as Brandon already mentioned, simplest way of attaching plywood to concrete is with TAPCONs. I highly recommend the plywood floor; as with most reno's you'll hate putting the money out, but you'll be glad for it in the long run.


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## TJ65 (Jan 19, 2010)

we have bought some rubber that you can buy from a roll to whatever length. The other thing is since we had a number of car mats lying around, they too are scattered on the floor. Along with wearing decent shoes it all works pretty well.


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## Pete_Jud (Feb 15, 2008)

I picked up 5 of the HF pad kits a year ago on a coupon special, for around 5 bucks a kit, have them around my router tables, and work great.


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## johan (Oct 15, 2008)

I had the same problem with back problems and sore feet 2 months ago i moved into a new shop i fitted it out with 18mm play on 25mm battons with a plastic sheet underneath .and my back and feet are giving me a lot less problems


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I've got a bad back and two bad knees and all I've ever worked on is concrete floors. I haven't found anything to do about it except grin and bare it. My shop is too small for floor pads and the plant is too big. I don't like in soles because they crowd my toes in my steel toed boots. As long as I don't do anything real stupid I can make out all right with my knees and back. However, if you've got room some people like those floor pads (they sure do get in the way when you move stuff around) and if you like to wear soft shoes and have room for the in soles some people swear by them.


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## Dcase (Jul 7, 2010)

John, anytime someone brings up back pain I like to refer this link

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/478840

check it out, take a read, you may or may not have interest but I thought I would share…


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## Dustmite97 (Aug 1, 2009)

In front of my workbench I put some mats down on the floor and they work great and are quite comfortable.


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## boboswin (May 23, 2007)

Every time this question comes up I suggest a good pair of cushioned work boots rather than scatering foam around the floor making clean up a chore and offering a blunt edge to trip over. 
You wont be able to open or close the doors if you raise the floor.
A decent stool at the work bench is a great way to rest that back between manovers as well.


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

My cheap and lazy solution has been to lay down some carpet scraps. I plan on eventually getting some nicer mats, but the carpet has helped a lot. Every now and then I knock the sawdust out of them.


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## langski93 (Dec 31, 2008)

I have read alot about soft shoes and padding used on the shop floors. If you have flat feet like me, soft shoes don't help at all, only make it worse. You may need support not stiffness. The stiffest orthodics made are the only thing that helped me (lower back, knees and ankle pain). I recommend you see a foot Dr. it may help you too.

langski93


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## boboswin (May 23, 2007)

I respectfully agree with you. 
If you stop and think about it buying shoes that properly support your bone structure and give you some resilience by way of a built up sole and perhaps insole are vastly superior to tossing round some foam mats that either interfere moving your machines around, collecting dust or tripping you with a loose edge.

I do respect your final decision to use whatever you prefer bur surely common sense would tell most of you that if you cut off "shoe shaped" pieces of foam and stuck them to you shoes you would have the same effect minus the mess.


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## NH_Hermit (Dec 3, 2009)

Well, I elected to take Grizzman's suggestion and put in a "real" floor, as this shop will (hopefully) be my home away from home if and when I ever get to retire. Since the shop is 20'x16', I'll need only 10 sheets of plywood, and I found cheap vinyl tile ($.45 per sq. ft) at both THD and Lowe's.

At this point, I'm in the middle of installing the first 5 sheets of plywood, as I need to do half at a time because of all the tools, boxes, and other miscellaneous junk that need to be stored in the area not being worked on.

And I'm going with Brandon's advice for the Tapcon screws. I didn't think I'd need a hammer drill for those and could get by with my Milwaukee ½" drill, but quickly found out I did. Since I did not know just how often this would be used I bought a DeWalt model DW511 at Lowes for $90, and I am absolutely amazed how fast it drills through concrete- like soft butter! I chuckled at the clerk in Lowes when I told her this made my fifth drill, she replied, "A man can't have too many drills."

It looks like it'll be spring before it'll be warm enough to lay the tile, so I'll go back to the wood racks, wall shelves, cabinets and the all important work bench until then.

Oh, I also bought a better pair of shoes too. And yes, I do stop from time to time for a cup of tea.

When all is said and done after the new floor is in, and I still experience discomfort, I'll go with the mats around the work areas.

Thanks to all for the advice. I'll post some photoes when I'm done.


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

I've had terrible back troubles since I was in a bad traffic wreck 10 years ago. I couldn't work on concrete if it weren't for anti fatigue mats… A wooden floor over concrete will work though… At least it should… Don't forget to put a few bucks into a good shop stool or two…


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## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

One other item John. I sometimes find my legs, back, and hips ache from standing on the concrete floor too. What I started to do was get more excercise. Even a simple 30 minute walk each day made a big difference. Stretching each day helps too. I was in athletics my whole life so it was never a problem until I stopped all of the excercise a few years ago and then I started to have problems standing on hard surfaces for long periods of time.


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## NH_Hermit (Dec 3, 2009)

Wayne, you are so right! and you are echoing my wife.

I used to run 2-3 miles a day, but that was 10 years ago, and now I spend 9-10 hours a day sitting at this @^&$ PC.


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## Gregn (Mar 26, 2010)

Hermit, from my experience with having concrete floors and putting plywood down on top of the concrete didn't have enough give to counter act standing on concrete. I found that when I put a grid work of 1×2 firring strips down first then the plywood there was enough give to counter act the concrete. Even putting down a foam underlayment will make the difference to allow for the plywood to give to make a difference. You may want to try what you have down now and see if that will be enough, if not then give that a try. Just thought I would mention it before you go through all that work and still aren't satisfied with the results.


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## Uncle_Salty (Dec 26, 2009)

I work on concrete ALL DAY!

I highly recommend some high quality footwear (I am currently wearing Wolverines!) and either the gel inserts or the Dr. Scholls orthotic inserts.

This has greatly reduced my back pain/foot/leg discomfort that I had been having. Been using these for about three years now, and I highly recommend them.


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## NH_Hermit (Dec 3, 2009)

Greg, I agree that fir strips under 3/4 plywood would be the better solution, but my problem is the concrete floor is 15/16 from the door threshold with the door swinging inwards. I also bought a better pair of shoes which seemed to help. If I don't get total relief (well, as much relief as I can expect at age 67) once the shop is operational, I'll lay down mats at the various work stations.

Yesterday was productive in that I got the first five sheets down and screwed, and the junk moved off of the next area. I'm continuing to learn about hammer drills and bits, breaking two of my three bits.


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## Gofor (Jan 12, 2008)

If you are doing a lot of your work at the workbench, you may want to try raising it. As i get older, I find my back less forgiving when having to half-way bend to do long tasks. I recently raised my workbench 4 " (actually, just put 4×4s under the legs) and it made a world of difference using hand planes, chiseling, etc. (Of course, the fact that I have to get closer to see things as well may be part of me needing to bend more to read the scale, see the scratch lines, etc).

Go

Welcome to NC.


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