# Fun with hand saws



## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

*Bad Axe VS. Lie-Nielsen VS. Veritas*

So this is my first tool test/comparison. I am putting my LN progressive pitch VS. my friends Veritas 14tpi VS. other friends Bad Axe 15tpi.

Before jumping into using the tools, let's introduce them. First my LN progressive pitch. The saw plate is 9" long, 1 5/8" depth of cut the plate is 0.020" thick with a kerf of 0.026". The major difference is this saw has 16tpi at the toe and progressively gets more aggressive at the back where it is 9tpi. The saw come's hand filed and set. Brass saw back with a figured maple handle.









The Veritas saw has 14tpi, 9" worth of teeth with a cutting depth of 1 9/16". The saw plate is 0.020" thick and leaves a kerf of 0.026", same as the LN. The website does not say, but I am thinking that the saw is machine filed and set, there are identical markings on each tooth that would suggest this to be the case, but again I am just speculating. As you may already know, the Veritas saw backs are made from stainless steel powder, glass fiber and a polymer resin. If you think it looks cheap, you are wrong, this thing is solid, has some weight to it. It like it. The handle is bubinga. 









Bad Axe. This is an interesting saw, as there were some custom things done to this saw by the makers at the request of my friend, I do not have all the specifics. But the saw has a plate 10", depth of cut is 2", 15tpi and the saw plate is 0.018" thick. If I were guessing at 0.003" set on each side that leaves a kerf of 0.024". This is thinner than both the LN and LV. This saw was hand filed and set, and worthy of note, this saw has a canted saw plate. Because when you order one of these saws there are lots of options, from the colour of the nuts, the handle size and species, saw back material, each one is going to be different. This one happens to have black oxide carbon steel (?) back and a mesquite handle. I love the way this looks.








Now to start using the saws. I am using some ¾ cherry for my material in this comparison. First test is the ease of starting a cut. I marked ten lines and made ten test starts with each saw and went down about ¼. When starting a cut I do a little nibble with the toe of the saw (about the first inch worth of teeth). Because the LN has 16tpi at the toe, this saw is very easy to start a kerf with. But I would not say the easiest. I would say the LN and the Bad Axe were pretty even on this. The Veritas was not as easy, not saying it was not easy, just not AS easy. I did find the Veritas had a tendency to catch a little bit, I do not have an explanation for this. I only have suspicions, and I suspect that it just might have a different feel because it is machine filed? After the first two 'catches' I made a slight adjust in my grip and I did not catch again.

Next was to see how aggressive/fast each saw was. I made a line 1" down and then made 5 cuts to the line. I counted the number of strokes and then averaged them out. I was quite surprised with the results. LN was 12. Veritas was 8, and Bad Axe was 7.5. Some interesting things to note with this test. The Bad Axe has a canted saw plate, the plate is also thinner and longer, all of this accounts for a fast cut, I was expecting that. What I was not expecting was that the LN was 4 strokes slower than the other two. I think I might have an explanation for this though. The BA and V have a consistent tooth patter over the whole plate, the LN does not. What I found with the LN was that when I was about ¾ through a stroke, the saw would catch and stop, and after a few strokes I found that it always stopped in the same place, at the same tooth (NO, the saw plate is not kinked). Could it have something to do with the teeth becoming TOO aggressive? And thus becoming harder to push through the material? It could be an explanation. It makes sense to me. (I did adjust my grip on a separate piece of wood and made a few cuts to see if I could make a simple adjustment with my grip to get full use, and I found that to get the saw to go past that point I had to put quite a bit more effort into the stroke and it made it quite difficult.) No matter the cause, the effect is simple. ¾ of the teeth being used over the course of 12 strokes easily accounts for the 3-4 extra strokes needed to get to the same point, where the other two saws were getting full strokes.

To be as fair as possible in this test as well…. the Bad Axe and the Veritas a both quite new, and still really sharp. My LN is getting close to three years and I have used it… a LOT! So… I am guessing that I should sharpen it. This small thing is likely a large contributing factor in how slow it cut. I fully believe that if this saw was as sharp as the other two, it would have cut with similar stroke counts.

Once I had done all my test cuts, I looked at the pieces of wood and checked to see if there was any real difference in the appearance. None. I repeat, there was NO noticable difference in the end product. All three saws achived the same result.

Bad Axe. Everything about this saw screams awesome! I love the size, the weight, the handle is comfortable. I can easily say that this is the nicest saw that I have ever used. This comes in at somewhere between $200-300.

LN. I really like the classic brass back and the shape of the handle, it has classic curves and it s really nice figured maple. The progressive pitch does really work, the toe makes starting the cut really easy and it does cut aggressively. (just not mine, as said before, it needs to be sharpened). I paid 135? USD for this saw.

Veritas. With the new technology for the spine, and the dark bubinga handle, I like the way it looks. I really feel that once you have used this saw, and gotten a good feel for it, you can do everything the more expensive saws do. And at $65, you cannot go wrong.

Conclusion: With the BA being around 4x the Veritas, and the LN somewhere in between, you might be thinking that it's not fair to test the saws from such a huge price range. But I think it is fair. Here's why, a saw is a saw is a saw, except when it's not. I am not talking about big box store saws, they suck. I'm talking about your 'premium' saws. Saws that were made to be used seriously. Just because the Veritas is less expensive, that does not mean it is not a 'premium' saw, it is. I have no qualms about throwing the Veritas against the other makers. It really does belong in this group of saws that are much more expensive.

There was nothing on any of the saws that I did not like. There were some things that I liked more, and those things come with a price tag. So it all comes down to how much you want to spend.

So whats next for me? Well, step one is sharpen my saw!

Jeremy


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Bad Axe VS. Lie-Nielsen VS. Veritas*
> 
> So this is my first tool test/comparison. I am putting my LN progressive pitch VS. my friends Veritas 14tpi VS. other friends Bad Axe 15tpi.
> 
> ...


That BadAxe is sweeeeeet! The LN is pretty handsome, too. The Veritas, well…. This is one of the best handsaw reviews I've read in a very long time. I think I'm digging your vibe and I agree that the price tag does not a good tool make by default. All three of these are nicer than what I own. I use throwaway dozukis for most of my work. Like any tool though, I like looking at the nice ones


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Bad Axe VS. Lie-Nielsen VS. Veritas*
> 
> So this is my first tool test/comparison. I am putting my LN progressive pitch VS. my friends Veritas 14tpi VS. other friends Bad Axe 15tpi.
> 
> ...


Jeremy - There is a difference between the BA saw and the Veritas saw (which I have both the rip and crosscut). What you say about how they cut and the comparisons that you make are very good - there is one thing that I have found and thought it was in my head but your pictures tell the story - the angle of the totes are different. The Veritas has not been comfortable for me when I am sitting. I have an old dovetail saw (no name on it) that has the angle of the BA saw - and that is comforable for me. To use the Veritas saws, I have to stand while cutting dovetails.

One thing to note - these really thin blades and high tooth count saws are not real good with stock over 1/2" - just sayin -


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Bad Axe VS. Lie-Nielsen VS. Veritas*
> 
> So this is my first tool test/comparison. I am putting my LN progressive pitch VS. my friends Veritas 14tpi VS. other friends Bad Axe 15tpi.
> 
> ...


David: very intersting note you made, I did not notice the difference in the angles until you mentioned it. But I admit, I have never cut a DT while sitting.

As to your comment about these saws not being good for material over 1/2, I disagree. I have never had an issue cutting in thicker stock.


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Bad Axe VS. Lie-Nielsen VS. Veritas*
> 
> So this is my first tool test/comparison. I am putting my LN progressive pitch VS. my friends Veritas 14tpi VS. other friends Bad Axe 15tpi.
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting! I look forqward to acquiring one or three of these bad boys.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Bad Axe VS. Lie-Nielsen VS. Veritas*
> 
> So this is my first tool test/comparison. I am putting my LN progressive pitch VS. my friends Veritas 14tpi VS. other friends Bad Axe 15tpi.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the review I like the testing you did but I think I would ask you to rank the saws 1-3 so we know how the review came out. I know Ba has a huge wait time and a good reputation. I also know I like the LN as I own two of them. I did not go with the progressive plate i went with the 15 tpi configuration. I am able to cut stock easily and quickly or 2" and thicker no problem and my saws are sharp .The rip saw is harder to start than the crosscut saw and they are wonderful tiger maple totes. I love my saw s that said I tend to use my antique saws the most. i have a sweet Simmonds dovetail saw that cuts twice as good as my ln and I also have a disston That i also prefer the tote just feels better than the LN. I don't know if I will buy a veritas or a BA I am thinking of buying a nice saw kit from Gramercy it is a lovely kit and the price is good. I want a holly wood tote that stuff looks awesome and I think i will also get a set from Rob Cosman sash saw and dovetail saw who ever said saws were not as addictive as hand planes was wrong great review thanks for taking the time I also want to know how much your saw speed changes once you sharpen the saw


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## tirebob (Aug 2, 2010)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Bad Axe VS. Lie-Nielsen VS. Veritas*
> 
> So this is my first tool test/comparison. I am putting my LN progressive pitch VS. my friends Veritas 14tpi VS. other friends Bad Axe 15tpi.
> 
> ...


Bad Axe… Phhhhtttttt! Who would want one of THOSE??? I would rather save the money by spending hours on e-bay finding an old Disston, getting it shipped to me, spend a bunch of hours straightening the saw plate, a bunch more cleaning it up and a bunch more still filing and sharpening the teeth. That's what a real woodworker would do…

Kidding! I love that saw!


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Bad Axe VS. Lie-Nielsen VS. Veritas*
> 
> So this is my first tool test/comparison. I am putting my LN progressive pitch VS. my friends Veritas 14tpi VS. other friends Bad Axe 15tpi.
> 
> ...


Dude, I choose not to rate the saws from 1-3. Reason being, all three saws are great choices, and depending on financial situation, I would not hesistate to buy any one of them. I plan on sharpening my LN in the very near future and I will post about it.


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## antkn33 (Dec 22, 2008)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Bad Axe VS. Lie-Nielsen VS. Veritas*
> 
> So this is my first tool test/comparison. I am putting my LN progressive pitch VS. my friends Veritas 14tpi VS. other friends Bad Axe 15tpi.
> 
> ...


Look… no doubt the Bad Axe is a an outstanding saw. But for me, the bottom line is I have seen people cut dovetails with a $50 Japanese saw that are so air tight you would swear they are machine cut. 
So for me, it simply isn't worth it to spend that much on a saw. But, that's what makes the world go around… everyone is different.


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## molan (Apr 25, 2012)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Bad Axe VS. Lie-Nielsen VS. Veritas*
> 
> So this is my first tool test/comparison. I am putting my LN progressive pitch VS. my friends Veritas 14tpi VS. other friends Bad Axe 15tpi.
> 
> ...


Good comparison!
I currently have the veritas saw and have to say I love it. It works great!
But who wouldn't want a badass saw if you had the money!


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Bad Axe VS. Lie-Nielsen VS. Veritas*
> 
> So this is my first tool test/comparison. I am putting my LN progressive pitch VS. my friends Veritas 14tpi VS. other friends Bad Axe 15tpi.
> 
> ...


Very timely review. I took delivery on a BA Carcase x-cut saw a few weeks ago and very happy with it. I just let go of a Veritas DT saw. The difference in the kerf is noticable. Now that the V saw is gone I may go with the LN saw.

Again, very timely review. I appreciate you taking the time.

Thanks


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Bad Axe VS. Lie-Nielsen VS. Veritas*
> 
> So this is my first tool test/comparison. I am putting my LN progressive pitch VS. my friends Veritas 14tpi VS. other friends Bad Axe 15tpi.
> 
> ...


Scott, if you have sawing experiance and are not worried about kinking your saw plate, check out the thin kerf saws. They saw really nice and are incredibly fast. Just not something that I would suggest for someone just getting started.


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Bad Axe VS. Lie-Nielsen VS. Veritas*
> 
> So this is my first tool test/comparison. I am putting my LN progressive pitch VS. my friends Veritas 14tpi VS. other friends Bad Axe 15tpi.
> 
> ...


Jeremy - Could be a "me" thing. I refurbed an old dovetail saw that has a thicker blade and gave it a touch more set and it goes through 3/4" stock like butter where the Veritas binds a bit. Again, probably a me thing, I'll be working on this soon - making drawers for a cabinet.


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Bad Axe VS. Lie-Nielsen VS. Veritas*
> 
> So this is my first tool test/comparison. I am putting my LN progressive pitch VS. my friends Veritas 14tpi VS. other friends Bad Axe 15tpi.
> 
> ...


David, the thicker the plate and the more set you have… whats you tpi count? To me it sounds like you have set your saw to be more aggessive, so it is going to cut faster. I have heard that the Veritas can be catchy when its new, but it should get better after its 'broken in'. With more use, the burrs that are created during the sharpening stage will dissapear. You can speed this up by taking say, a 1000 grit stone (slip stone) and really gently running it along the side of the teeth from back to front, once on both sides. If that does not work, then try using some wax (not beeswax) and rubbing some on the saw plate (should be doing this anyways). Again, if that does not work then I would suggest checking your sawing mechanics to make sure your arm is not twisting in the stroke. If your arm is twisting it will cause a bind, and the thinner the blade the more exaggerated it is.

One thing I have forgotten to ask, do you have the 20tpi or the 14tpi? If you have the 20, then yes, I would not be using it on anything larger than 1/2 either.

Jeremy


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Bad Axe VS. Lie-Nielsen VS. Veritas*
> 
> So this is my first tool test/comparison. I am putting my LN progressive pitch VS. my friends Veritas 14tpi VS. other friends Bad Axe 15tpi.
> 
> ...


I think its the 20. The old saw varies between 12 - 18 tpi - kind of depends which inch you count. It was this way when I bought it, and sharpened it as it was. When I got it there was no set and the blade was is bad shape - straightened it out and sharpened it and it works really nice on the thicker material, too aggressive on thinner stock.

The Veritas issues I have are probably all in the angles. I bebur the teeth with a 6000 grit stone, 1000 is just too course for my liking but thanks.


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

*Sharpening LN*

Hopfully you have read the previous blog where I tested three saws. In that test I found how badly I need to sharpen my LN progressive pitch DT saw. And because I am in the midst of cutting lots of dovetails (see my other blog series) I decided that I should take a break and sharpen the saw before continuing. So that is what I did.

The first thing I did was to clamp the saw between two pieces of cherry with just the teeth sticking out, this way there is little to no vibration on the plate.









Here is the file that I use. It is a 4" extra slim file.









I then took a sharpie and marked all the teeth, so while I am filing I can see what and where I am filing.









Then starting at the back and working my way to the front I take two strokes on every other tooth. Because this is a rip saw, I try as hard as I can to keep the file straight and square with no angle. Then I flip the saw over and do two strokes on the teeth that I skipped the first time.









Once I was done, I double checked to make sure there were no 'flat' spots on any of the teeth, if there were then I would have needed to do one or two more strokes on each tooth. But there were no flats, and each tooth was filed to a point. I could tell just touching it that it was nice and sharp.

I then took the same piece of cherry that I did all my testing on from the previous entry to this series and did the tests again using only this saw to see how the results changed. Starting the saw into the kerf was just as easy as ever, and it still looked the same when I was done. But, instead of 12 strokes to go 1", it took between 8 and 9. Thats a 3-4 stroke improvment! Bringing it right inline with the BA and the V. I also noted that it was no where near as catchy as before at the 3/4 mark either, but it still did a few times. I found if the saw did catch at about the 3/4 mark it took 9 strokes, and if it did not it took 8. This is something that I think I am going to concious of in the future. But I am curious to know if anyone else has this issue?

Thanks again for reading.
Jeremy


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## tsangell (Jan 10, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Sharpening LN*
> 
> Hopfully you have read the previous blog where I tested three saws. In that test I found how badly I need to sharpen my LN progressive pitch DT saw. And because I am in the midst of cutting lots of dovetails (see my other blog series) I decided that I should take a break and sharpen the saw before continuing. So that is what I did.
> 
> ...


One of your teeth may be set a bit heavier than the others. If you very lightly stone the sides of the saw, you'll feel it catch on the problem tooth. Be careful not to remove too much of the set, or to unbalance the set. If you do, these are problems you can fix but that is another discussion.

Or, it could be a technique issue, if you're using too much muscle. Heavier toothed saws tend to catch more, and you're transitioning from a fine toothed saw to a heavier tooth with each stroke. Let the saw float through the cut.


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

*Them some real Bad Axes Cletus!*

Here are two more Bad Axe saws that are owned by my friend.









This is a 12" Hybrid dovetail/small tenon saw. Featuring steel back and nuts with a mesquite handle. 14tpi. This saw has a 12" plate, longer than a conventional DT saw, the saw plate is also canted. The teeth are sharpened in a rip format. With these option, this saw ran somewhere around the $300 USD for price.









This is the 14" Sash saw. Copper back, with black split nuts. 13 tpi, filed cross cut. These options bring to saw to somewhere around $370.

I would have preferred to test these saws along side some others to do some comparisons. But the LN and LV's that I have available to me are not similar in their size and tooth configuration to make any side by side testing valid.

But I will say this… these saws are fast, smooth and accurate.









Using the 12" saw, and some 6/4 thick walnut, I made 3 cuts going until the saw bottomed out. That's a cut depth of 2.5", my average cuts to bottom out was 24! That's fast, really fast.









Putting that same chunk of walnut onto my bench hook, and using the sash saw to cut it across the grain. Again 6/4 thick, and 10/4 wide, my average to cut through was 25. 
I also noted that neither saw drifted at all. All the surfaces that were left behind were smooth and clean.

I have no issues saying these are the best saws that I have ever used, and are well worth what they cost. Side note here, I love Steampunk, so the copper back to me is just awesome! I was so impressed with my friends saw that I could not resist…..








Making this mequite and copper pen to match the saw.

I am sorry if this post seemed like a Bad Axe advertisment. It was not. I love hand saws, and my friend had some hand saws that I asked to borrow and play with, and these are just my thoughts.

Up next time… hopefully something about panel saws.

Also, if you have something negative to say, or want to scoff at the price, please don't.


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## doordude (Mar 26, 2010)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Them some real Bad Axes Cletus!*
> 
> Here are two more Bad Axe saws that are owned by my friend.
> 
> ...


those are nice saws. i was on thier web site last nite,drooling. the LV is $100 less…on the carcas saw


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Them some real Bad Axes Cletus!*
> 
> Here are two more Bad Axe saws that are owned by my friend.
> 
> ...


They are beautiful…so the value is there vs a LV, LN, or other saw at a slightly lower price point, in your opinion? How long was the wait for the saw?


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Them some real Bad Axes Cletus!*
> 
> Here are two more Bad Axe saws that are owned by my friend.
> 
> ...


Dude: more like 200.

Shane: Thats a really loaded question. I cover it a bit in the first blog in this series. But the short answer is… Yes, they are worth every cent.
From what I am told, the wait was 2-3 months.


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## Kookaburra (Apr 23, 2012)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Them some real Bad Axes Cletus!*
> 
> Here are two more Bad Axe saws that are owned by my friend.
> 
> ...


I got mine first Bad Axe saw a few weeks ago. I waited about 4 months. Mark Harrel is having a special promotion right now if you order before 30 September. 10% off and guaranteed delivery before Christmas - Mission Santa Saws. This is noted on the first page of his website:
http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/index.html

That, of course, means that I will be ordering one or two more for my Christmas present


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## tirebob (Aug 2, 2010)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Them some real Bad Axes Cletus!*
> 
> Here are two more Bad Axe saws that are owned by my friend.
> 
> ...


I am up to four of Mark's saws now… Absolutely they are worth every penny! That said you can of course cut joinery with a whole lot less and do a phenomenal job, but there is no doubt Mark's saws are some of the very best available from any artisan maker today!!!


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## 8iowa (Feb 7, 2008)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Them some real Bad Axes Cletus!*
> 
> Here are two more Bad Axe saws that are owned by my friend.
> 
> ...


I purchased a Bad Axe 12" hybrid saw at the Woodworking in America Conference last year. Mark makes great saws and is a nice guy to deal with. I had to wait about six months for delivery as he was basically a one man shop. He is expanding his operation in order to reduce lead times.


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

*BA and a Wenzloff*

Hi again,

Today I have in my hands the last of my friends Bad Axe Saws. This here is a 16" 11tpi crosscut backsaw. Walnut handle with the black metal of some sort back and nuts. This thing is sweet.









For Christmas I made my 5 year old son a little bench, I just threw it together so he had something to work on while he is in the shop with me. Ironically enough, I just so happens to be the perfect size for me to use as a saw bench, figure that one out (wink, wink)









Using some 5/4 cherry, 4" wide I made a bunch of cuts, not because I needed to, because I wanted to. I just like using it. Cuts really fast, smooth and clean. It does get heavy in the hands after a while. I made some cuts with my 7 tpi disston crosscut panel saw to get a little of a comparison. 








You can see that BA on the right is much cleaner, but with its tooth count that is to be expected.

I also used some mutton tallow on the saw plate when I noticed it starting to stick. Works like a charm. Now my buddies saw is all covered in rendered sheep fat, mmmmmmmm pass the mint jelly.

I really like this saw, but I just might have to hold it ransom to get the dovetail saw again.

Thanks again for reading my rant.

Of course I forgot to mention the Wenzloff, and this is an edit.








This is a 20" 6tpi rip saw. I fell in love the moment I saw it. The handle is really awesome and it is very well balanced. And of course I could not resist trying it out once… or twice… who am I kidding, lots. So far I have only had a chance to use some 3/4 pine about 3 feet long, no problems. FAST!! A few times while ripping, I stopped and drew a line where the saw line was, and then one push, then measured the cut. I averaged 15-18 mm per push. Thats quite impressive. The reason I used pine was because it was the only board long enough that I was willing to sacrifice, but I will find some walnut or cherry and give it another go.

Jeremy


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## KayBee (Jul 6, 2009)

JeremyPringle said:


> *BA and a Wenzloff*
> 
> Hi again,
> 
> ...


Interesting reading. What about the Wenzloff?


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *BA and a Wenzloff*
> 
> Hi again,
> 
> ...


Sorry, I just added the Wenzloff part.


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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)

JeremyPringle said:


> *BA and a Wenzloff*
> 
> Hi again,
> 
> ...


Hi Jeremy. I share your passion for saws, so thank you for writing this blog series. Over the course of 2012 I've been restoring some old backsaws of varying sizes together with a few handsaws and learning to sharpen my own saws. I've learnt so much through doing this. I also documented everything in my blog if you're interested. I still have 2 or 3 episodes to write culminating in a summary of what I've learnt along the way.

Keep up the good work.


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## tirebob (Aug 2, 2010)

JeremyPringle said:


> *BA and a Wenzloff*
> 
> Hi again,
> 
> ...


Woahhhhhhhh! Where did that Wenzloff come from??? Sweet saw!


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *BA and a Wenzloff*
> 
> Hi again,
> 
> ...


I have been corrected, the BA saw is actually filed to be a hybrid.


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

*Thats a real Bad Axe!!*

If you have read any of this blog series before, you know that I really like my friends saw collection. He has 4 Bad Axe saws. Well, after using his DT saw several times, I just had to have one for myself.









10" dovetail, 0.018" saw plate, 15tpi, canted blade, black walnut handle with black nuts, thing of beauty! Mark has nicknamed this saw the 'Copperhead Killer'. I like it.

When I was in the midst of placing my order, Mark told me it would be a 7-9 week wait. I was fine with that. But later that night as I was showing my wife the saw that I wanted, I found the exact saw that I wanted in his fresh troops section, ready for deployment. So I contacted him again and asked if it was still available, it sure was. So the next day we made all the arrangments, and it was on its way. No waiting!!

Once I had it in my hands, I made some test cuts. Starting a kerf could not be easier, it just glides into the cut with no effort what-so-ever. It is also quite fast and agressive. The saw plate is 10", compaired to the LN which is 9". But the LN has a more angled handle, so the total lengths are almost identical.









Overall, Mark once again lives up to his reputation. This saw is flawless.

And of course, what kind of a person would I be if I did not make myself a custom walnut, copper and black enamel pen to commemorate this amazing saw?








I know it is hard to see, but the copper tags inside the pen say "Copperhead", "Killer", "Bad Axe Toolworks".


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## RBWoodworker (Mar 22, 2009)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Thats a real Bad Axe!!*
> 
> If you have read any of this blog series before, you know that I really like my friends saw collection. He has 4 Bad Axe saws. Well, after using his DT saw several times, I just had to have one for myself.
> 
> ...


Thats cool…how much are the saws?


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Thats a real Bad Axe!!*
> 
> If you have read any of this blog series before, you know that I really like my friends saw collection. He has 4 Bad Axe saws. Well, after using his DT saw several times, I just had to have one for myself.
> 
> ...


Here are the links to the LN and BS sites, of which all the prices of their tools are listed.

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/

http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/


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## 8iowa (Feb 7, 2008)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Thats a real Bad Axe!!*
> 
> If you have read any of this blog series before, you know that I really like my friends saw collection. He has 4 Bad Axe saws. Well, after using his DT saw several times, I just had to have one for myself.
> 
> ...


I met Bad Axe Saw's Mark Harrell at the WIA Conference two years ago. At the show I ordered his 12" hybrid saw, and have since purchased a second one. This is a great all around tennon saw, seemingly cutting just about the same across and with the grain.

Recently, Woodcraft had a "close out" on their anniversary 10" dovetail saws, which were made by Bad Axe. My son and I bought just about the last ones in Woodcraft's inventory.

In an email, Mark told me that he is working on panel saw designs. I'm looking forward to having one that can cut plywood smoothly. He's a small businessman and a nice guy. You can't go wrong with any of his saws.


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## HanselCJ (Feb 11, 2010)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Thats a real Bad Axe!!*
> 
> If you have read any of this blog series before, you know that I really like my friends saw collection. He has 4 Bad Axe saws. Well, after using his DT saw several times, I just had to have one for myself.
> 
> ...


Gorgeous looking saw.


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## tirebob (Aug 2, 2010)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Thats a real Bad Axe!!*
> 
> If you have read any of this blog series before, you know that I really like my friends saw collection. He has 4 Bad Axe saws. Well, after using his DT saw several times, I just had to have one for myself.
> 
> ...


Sick saw buddy! Too bad you wasted all that money on a show tool when you could of had a bunch old yard sale saws that need only 4 days of work to cut almost as well as your piece of eye candy… have fun!


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Thats a real Bad Axe!!*
> 
> If you have read any of this blog series before, you know that I really like my friends saw collection. He has 4 Bad Axe saws. Well, after using his DT saw several times, I just had to have one for myself.
> 
> ...


Yeah tirebob? If thats your real name, I bet its really Bob Loblaw, because thats all I heard… blah blah blah!


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## tirebob (Aug 2, 2010)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Thats a real Bad Axe!!*
> 
> If you have read any of this blog series before, you know that I really like my friends saw collection. He has 4 Bad Axe saws. Well, after using his DT saw several times, I just had to have one for myself.
> 
> ...


LOL


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## molan (Apr 25, 2012)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Thats a real Bad Axe!!*
> 
> If you have read any of this blog series before, you know that I really like my friends saw collection. He has 4 Bad Axe saws. Well, after using his DT saw several times, I just had to have one for myself.
> 
> ...


No fighting now!

That looks like a sweet saw! regardless of how much you paid and how many days you didn't have to spend restoring it before you could put it to work!


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## tirebob (Aug 2, 2010)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Thats a real Bad Axe!!*
> 
> If you have read any of this blog series before, you know that I really like my friends saw collection. He has 4 Bad Axe saws. Well, after using his DT saw several times, I just had to have one for myself.
> 
> ...


He started it!!! Oh… Wait…


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

*Making a moxon*

In the midst of making a box with full blind dovetails and lots of inlay stringing, I have decided to make a moxon vice at the same time. I bought the Bench crafted moxon hardware. Sweet.

First, I had to get the right kind of wood. No problems, 8/4 hard maple, 7' long and 12.5" wide. A little big, but nothing I cannot work with. So step one was to cross cut it 36" long. 









With my old Disston crosscut saw it only took me about 3 min. I think it needs to be sharpened.

Next I needed to rip that in half, so each piece was just over 6" wide. No problem, thats what my Wenzloff rip saw is for.









Thats worked up a good sweat, it took about 5 min, and I did most of it two handed.









But, I wandered a bit…









So…. jointer plane…...????









Now I am just as bad as the next galoot for punishment, but I was feeling a little lazy after all the hand saw work, so I asked a friend of mine to use his power jointer on them for me….









Some friend he turned out to be!!!

Kidding. He did a great job. Then I used the plans to mark out my holes for the screws. I used a drill press and a forstner bit to do most of the work, but then I squared it up with some chisles.









After drilling and elongating the holes in the face piece, I put no the wheels. These things spin! Very sweet movement. I put some slip it wax on them to lube them up… wow.









I am not done. I decided that because I have a spot where I can have this vice up pretty much on a permenant basis, I am going to build a little bench slab top to attached to the back side. This way I can have the sawing at a great height, but the chiseling too. Basically, I am replacing this…









I made this a few years ago, and it works great, there is nothing wrong with it… its just… well…. its not a Bench Crafted moxon vice. Seriously? Do I really have to justify my decision?

Thanks,


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## molan (Apr 25, 2012)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Making a moxon*
> 
> In the midst of making a box with full blind dovetails and lots of inlay stringing, I have decided to make a moxon vice at the same time. I bought the Bench crafted moxon hardware. Sweet.
> 
> ...


Nope you definitely don't have to justify anything! I am sure you will love the new vise!

hopping to build one myself someday!


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## tirebob (Aug 2, 2010)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Making a moxon*
> 
> In the midst of making a box with full blind dovetails and lots of inlay stringing, I have decided to make a moxon vice at the same time. I bought the Bench crafted moxon hardware. Sweet.
> 
> ...


J E A L O U S!!!!! Seriously sweet man…


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

*Old disston*

Well… for some reason, (which I will not go into at this time) my desire and love for hand saws has been re-reawakened.

I have this old Disston dovetail saw that I bought a year and a bit ago for $8. What a steal. But the handle is really too big for me, I also think it is kind of ugly. I could shape it so it fits my hand…. 









But I have this piece of cut off curly walnut..









So I traced the saw handle to some grid paper









Made some alterations…









And started cutting…









I am going to use a band saw to refine the shape a bit, and from there on out… my trusty rasp and files get to do the rest of the work.

After this.. I also have a box saw to make… out of curly maple.


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## molan (Apr 25, 2012)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Old disston*
> 
> Well… for some reason, (which I will not go into at this time) my desire and love for hand saws has been re-reawakened.
> 
> ...


looking forward to seeing the final results.

Are you going to post a blog on how you sharpen and tune the saw?


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Old disston*
> 
> Well… for some reason, (which I will not go into at this time) my desire and love for hand saws has been re-reawakened.
> 
> ...


Matt, just for you I promise the next time I tune up and sharpen a saw I will post my steps.


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## Schwieb (Dec 3, 2008)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Old disston*
> 
> Well… for some reason, (which I will not go into at this time) my desire and love for hand saws has been re-reawakened.
> 
> ...


Missed the shenanigans, but I too will look forward to seeing the results and your tune-up post.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Old disston*
> 
> Well… for some reason, (which I will not go into at this time) my desire and love for hand saws has been re-reawakened.
> 
> ...


I'm wondering if that handle isn't the original and it was made by the owner to fit his large hands. No expertise involved in my guess.


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

*Completed re-handle*

Well… I did it. My first hand saw re-handle.

I spent most of last night and quite a bit of today shaping this thing. I started out last night drilling for the nuts and cutting the mortis for the blade and spline. Fits quite nicely.









So a little shaping later..









And then more shaping and a coat of tired and true..









Blade installed..









Now a side by side..









I did all the shaping with a few rasps. I found I really like the Japanese Milled tooth files the best. They leave a really clean surface so there is little sanding that needs to be done. And then of course the final sanding.. because I use mostly hand tools, I don't keep much sand paper around, and the first grit I have around is 220 because that's where I start sanding pens. So the sanding took a while, then 320, 400 and then I used steel wool.

This quick little project started the other day while I was cleaning my shop. I am in between projects right now and I have another show this coming weekend, and I don't want to start another project the show is over.. so cleaning it is. Of course while cleaning there is nothing to do but think… so here is a list of things that I though up while working on the saw handle and cleaning..
1. I need to make a saw till.
2. Make a box or organization system for my drill bits to keep by the drill press.
3. I really want to build a marquetry chevy.
4. Contemplating going full hand tool and selling my table saw.
5. I really want to make myself some moulding planes.

Aaahhh…. but where to start?


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## theoldfart (Sep 9, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Completed re-handle*
> 
> Well… I did it. My first hand saw re-handle.
> 
> ...


what kind of blade did you use to make the mortise for the plate?


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Completed re-handle*
> 
> Well… I did it. My first hand saw re-handle.
> 
> ...


I used the saw itself to cut the kerf for the saw, I used my chisels to cut the mortise for the portion where the spline sits.


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Completed re-handle*
> 
> Well… I did it. My first hand saw re-handle.
> 
> ...


Nicely done, this is on my to do list for sure. You did a great job. I've been reading Paul Sellers' old blogs and he shapes handles with a chisel (or gouge maybe), but a rasp seems to have less risk of ruining something.


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## Schwieb (Dec 3, 2008)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Completed re-handle*
> 
> Well… I did it. My first hand saw re-handle.
> 
> ...


Nice work Jeremy, beautiful handle. Now that you have made a list, you have to prioritize it and get to work on it. I'a a consummate list maker and I love it when I can scratch things off the list.


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## tinnman65 (Jan 19, 2009)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Completed re-handle*
> 
> Well… I did it. My first hand saw re-handle.
> 
> ...


Very nice Jeremy, the handle looks to nice for the blade. I guess its not about looks but how it feels and cuts


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Completed re-handle*
> 
> Well… I did it. My first hand saw re-handle.
> 
> ...


Well done J.


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

*Saw bench build #1*

Today I was able to start on my saw bench. Using the 8/4 pine that I was not able to use to make my chevy.









I am using Tom Fidgen's saw bench design as my base, the design can be found in his newest book.

The saw bench is a split top, I used my cross cut saw to cut the two top pieces to length, as well as the 4 legs. I then used my table saw to cut them close to the final width. Then off to the bench and my LA jack to make everything nice and square and smooth.








and










I them used my marking gauges to mark the lap joints and sawed them out with my back saws, and cleaned them up with chisels and my router plane,










Then I marked out the corresponding joint and cut that out and cleaned it up again with chisels and my router plane,









That's it for tonight. Tomorrow I will work on the back half, a little more interesting as the back legs are angled at 100°.

With any luck I will be done this by the end of the weekend. Then I can get back to the chevy build.

Thanks,


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## tinnman65 (Jan 19, 2009)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Saw bench build #1*
> 
> Today I was able to start on my saw bench. Using the 8/4 pine that I was not able to use to make my chevy.
> 
> ...


Good start Jeremy, this should be an interesting build.


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

*Saw bench part 2.*

So.. I left off with one half of the laps cut.

The rear of the saw bench is splayed out 10°.. I knew I bought this thing for a reason…. 5 years ago. This is the first time I have actually used it for what it was made for.









Mark the top..









Cut..









Now mark off the lap joint..









Cut the lap joint..









Now.. I need to pause here for a second… I cut the top of the leg at 10°.. and then used the same bevel gauge to mark off the rest of the lap joint… there by multiplying my angels. I should have used a square.. none the less, once I figured out what I did wrong, I remarked it with the new angel and cut what I needed too..

Then I marked out and cut the mating lap









Chisels and router plane









Fits pretty good..









Now for the stretchers… cut the lap joint.. mark out the mating lap, cut that, chisel and router plane..









Of course.. what's a project without nicking my finger with my chisel??









Nothing a dab of CA wont close up… back to work.

Now to cut the angles on the two tops and use my block plane to make the radius..









Then I marked out and cut the two apron pieces, and used some screws to do a dry fit..









Wow.. this thing is solid!! *But*.. the space in the middle is too small..









After some inspection I found the problem. I marked out and cut the aprons, but forgot to account for the space that overhangs..









So, I had to stop for the night… time to put up the tree.









*That's right*... the Death Star orbiting the forest moon of Endor.

Anyways.. tomorrow I will recut the aprons, and then do the glue up and replace the screws with dowels..

Thanks for reading.


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## Woodwrecker (Aug 11, 2008)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Saw bench part 2.*
> 
> So.. I left off with one half of the laps cut.
> 
> ...


Enjoying this series my friend.


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## molan (Apr 25, 2012)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Saw bench part 2.*
> 
> So.. I left off with one half of the laps cut.
> 
> ...


Some of those pictures look like they have … Gasp …. screws in them? that can't be accurate.. A trick of light maybe?

Looking good!


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Saw bench part 2.*
> 
> So.. I left off with one half of the laps cut.
> 
> ...


Yes Matt, there are screws. But only temporary, once I glued everything up, the screws were removed and dowels were installed. More on that in the next segment.


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## Schwieb (Dec 3, 2008)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Saw bench part 2.*
> 
> So.. I left off with one half of the laps cut.
> 
> ...


Nice work Jeremy


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

*Saw bench #3*

Today, I found a cut off to use as the removable fence. I marked my line where I wanted to put the dowels..









And drilled the 3/8" holes..









Then I used some dowel centers and marked the holes on the bench, and drilled them as well.









I glued the dowels in the fence, so when I have the fence removed I don't have the dowels sticking out.










Then I removed the screws that were holding everything in place and applied the glue, then used those same screws and some clamps to hold everything in place. After a while I removed the clamps and started to drill out the holes for the permanent dowels. While the glue is curing I cleaned up.

So here is the bench, mostly finished, with a few screws that still need to be removed, holes drilled and dowels glued into place.









As of now, I have decided not to replace the too short aprons yet, mostly because I don't have any material laying around that is suited for the job. I will just not glue them in place for now. Also, when I have more time I will plane everything clean and smooth and flush. But.. basically I am going to consider it done. Now to use it!!!


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

*Disston 12*

So a few weeks ago I scored a sweet Disston 12. Its old… the surface of the plate was pretty rough, but the tooth line is dead straight, no kinks and all it needed was a little cleaning. Also on the handle, the top horn had a screw in it and the original medallion had been replaced. Sorry, I forgot to take a good before picture.

But once I got the handle off, there was the telltale X in the top corner of the blade..









Then… as it turns out, a good friend of mine had a spare handle complete with the original nuts just sitting around. Mine is on the left…









His handle has hairline cracks throughout, so I decided to clean and fix the original instead of using his..









I am not very into cleaning old metal surfaces.. so my friend who loves cleaning and refurbishing old saws (same one who gave me the handle) said he would clean the plate for me.

An afternoon cleaning the handle with stripper and some scraping, a fresh coat of oil.. then put it all back together using the nuts from my friends handle…

















This thing is ready to be sharpened and used…

That's it for the saw… but I have some new next door neighbours.. and two days after taking possession of the house, I came home to see tem cutting down all the foliage in the front yards.. including a half dead tree with some burls on it that I have been dreaming of cutting off in the middle of the night. When I asked… he told me to cut off whatever I wanted…


















There are a few more burls that I could not get to with my hatched and green saw, but when they take the rest down he will have a chain saw and cut the rest out for me. Even the bigger one is only about the size of a bowling ball.. so it might just end up being pen blanks. But still… WOO HOO!!!


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## Grumpymike (Jan 23, 2012)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Disston 12*
> 
> So a few weeks ago I scored a sweet Disston 12. Its old… the surface of the plate was pretty rough, but the tooth line is dead straight, no kinks and all it needed was a little cleaning. Also on the handle, the top horn had a screw in it and the original medallion had been replaced. Sorry, I forgot to take a good before picture.
> 
> ...


Great restoration to an equal great hand saw. I do need to ask about the telltale X … Wot iss dat??


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## molan (Apr 25, 2012)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Disston 12*
> 
> So a few weeks ago I scored a sweet Disston 12. Its old… the surface of the plate was pretty rough, but the tooth line is dead straight, no kinks and all it needed was a little cleaning. Also on the handle, the top horn had a screw in it and the original medallion had been replaced. Sorry, I forgot to take a good before picture.
> 
> ...


I am also wondering about the X

you will have to post picture of your Burl once you cut it up. Curious to see what it looks like!


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *Disston 12*
> 
> So a few weeks ago I scored a sweet Disston 12. Its old… the surface of the plate was pretty rough, but the tooth line is dead straight, no kinks and all it needed was a little cleaning. Also on the handle, the top horn had a screw in it and the original medallion had been replaced. Sorry, I forgot to take a good before picture.
> 
> ...


I don't know what the 'x' means. Its just something that all the saw junkies I was talking to told me this every 12 they have seen had the plate stamped under the handle.


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

*On your mark, get set... SAW!!*

Its been a while since posting anything about hand saws, but all is not lost.

I have been posting a blog entry every Friday on The Unplugged Woodshop. This past weeks entry was about hand sawing.

More specifically, on stance and grip. I also made my first video showing how I teach people to hold the saw and start the cut. (below)





View on YouTube

And last, I know it has nothing to do with hand saws, but I made the below box

















Its just a small box made from some soft quilted maple. I cut the pieces when I still had a table saw, but for some reason I never finished the box. Until recently I had forgotten all about it.

This past September I was able to meet Andrew Gore, and see the Fred West memorial tool box. I was so enthralled with the tool box and Andrew's work that I had a lengthy conversation with him about his processes. Since then I have kept his stuff in the back of my mind. When I was cleaning my shop weeks ago I stumbled upon the half made box and figured it would be the perfect thing to try out using dyes to do crazy awesome things. Its a pretty involved process, but one I will defiantly be using again.

So a huge shout out to Andrew for the inspiration, and I suggest that you check out Andrews site. Andrew Gore Woodworks.

Jeremy


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## dustyoldman (Dec 28, 2014)

JeremyPringle said:


> *On your mark, get set... SAW!!*
> 
> Its been a while since posting anything about hand saws, but all is not lost.
> 
> ...


beautiful box what dyes did you use ?? I would like to try that on a jewelry box , it looks like quilted maple ?


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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)

JeremyPringle said:


> *On your mark, get set... SAW!!*
> 
> Its been a while since posting anything about hand saws, but all is not lost.
> 
> ...


Good advice Jeremy. There's a reason those horns are there. )


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## arvanlaar (Feb 13, 2015)

JeremyPringle said:


> *On your mark, get set... SAW!!*
> 
> Its been a while since posting anything about hand saws, but all is not lost.
> 
> ...


Hey Jeremy,

For that box, what is that finish called? I have seen that a few times and do not know what it is called to learn more about it.

Thanks!


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

JeremyPringle said:


> *On your mark, get set... SAW!!*
> 
> Its been a while since posting anything about hand saws, but all is not lost.
> 
> ...


Yes, the wood is quilted maple. I used alcohol based dyes.

I dont know if there is a name for that kind of finishing process. Multi layered wood dye possibly? I have never tried it with water based aniline, but I follow Keda Wood Dye on twitter, and it looks like they might be more helpful.


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## dustyoldman (Dec 28, 2014)

JeremyPringle said:


> *On your mark, get set... SAW!!*
> 
> Its been a while since posting anything about hand saws, but all is not lost.
> 
> ...


I prefer the natural look of wood but I really like the way it looks ,I,m definitely going to try this on at least one of the jewelry box,s that I will be making in the near future and I know which one of my granddaughters it will go to and it will blow her mind . I will have to remember to post it, who says old people can,t learn ,I,m eager to try this Technic Thanks a lot . enjoy making saw dust.


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## tirebob (Aug 2, 2010)

JeremyPringle said:


> *On your mark, get set... SAW!!*
> 
> Its been a while since posting anything about hand saws, but all is not lost.
> 
> ...


Big belly with that big beard! Holy… I always pegged you for a skinny little geezer!

Haha! Just kidding… Good vid bro! Just how you taught me years before you were a celeb!


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