# A Bad Rap



## TopamaxSurvivor

I thought those were platforms to mount your own jig saw. For that price, it must come with it's own motor and saw unit?


----------



## tierraverde

Yup Topmax,
Variable speed included.
(Glad to see that handsome face back ;-))


----------



## StumpyNubs

I looked at this in Woodcraft a while back. I asked the guys there what anyone would want that machine for and not one of them could think of a reason they'd buy one. Not because of quality or any bad review they'd seen. Simply because a band saw can do anything this machine can.

So I don't get it. Unless you don't own a band saw, why would you want this? I suppose if you remove the arm you would have larger capacity than a band saw, but then you're going to get that wobble and vibration without the stabilization arm. Since I've never used one, I am interested if someone can tell me what makes this tool worth buying…

BTW- I don't think today's Rockwell is even the same company as the old brand (which was owned by Delta), is it?


----------



## richgreer

If you already own a scroll saw, jig saw and band saw what does this do with wood that you cannot already do? I understand it can be used on metal, but I have no interest in that.


----------



## tierraverde

Stumpy, Rich,
Try cutting a square inside of a piece of wood on a bandsaw without an entry cut. You can, but you need to cut the blade, inset it, weld and grind it. Many people mount an inverted jig saw for this purpose. This machine is precisely that. This is a jigsaw with added benefits, that's all.
I also have a Bosch jig saw but this is another piece of equipment that compliments my tools, and gives added control on precise cuts. it makes sense to me, just as having 3 or 4 battery drills for different purposes.
Just my opinion.


----------



## StumpyNubs

I suppose, but I always just use the scroll saw for that. It's quick and easy to loosen one end of the blade and slip it through a hole.

Don't get me wrong, it looks like a nice tool to me. I just can't think of why anyone with a scroll saw would want it. And this is coming from a guy who thinks he needs every tool he sees!

Perhaps YOU can be our test case? Use this machine half the time and a scroll saw or band saw the other half. Report back to us in a few months and tell us if it's worth buying.

BTW- I'm not trying to say *YOU *shouldn't have bought one, I'm just trying to decide if *I* want to buy one…


----------



## tierraverde

Conversely I don't own a scroll saw.
They are two different machines with different purposes.
For woodcraft sales people to make the statement "can't think of a use for it" says loads about their abilities and sales expertise. Wow. They would be looking for a new profession if I owned the store.


----------



## AaronK

i always thought this was a new kind of scroll saw… like if you were looking for a scroll saw you might want to check this one out,.

thanks for the good review, jim.


----------



## StumpyNubs

JimC- As someone who's family has owned a hardware store for many years I can tell you that my local woodcraft is lucky to be in business with some of the guys they have working there. Several times I've heard them talk someone out of a major purchase, not because they thought the item wasn't good for the customer, but because of absolute ignorance when it comes to retail sales!

I was looking to buy a new table saw fence so i went to Woodcraft and asked what they had available. They suggested I contact Delta directly to find the right fence for my saw. Sure, I could do that, but a good salesman would call Delta for me, find the right fence, order it, and make some markup on the sale! I heard the same guy do the same thing with another customer a week later!

As for me, I went to a Rockler store the same day. The manager sat me down in his office, gave me a cup of coffee and sold me a display model since it was all he had in stock. He also got out his wholesale price list, showed me what he paid for the fence, and made me a deal I couldn't refuse. True, the fence cost me a bit more than I would have paid if I'd ordered a Delta fence through the local box store. But with service like that, any guy would pay a few more bucks!

The Woodcraft guys are friendly, they know me by name and they let me drink all the self serve coffee I want as I wander around. But they've literally talked me out of spending hundreds of dollars because of simple ignorance or lazyness!


----------



## StumpyNubs

Your point is well take about the scroll saw. If you don't have one, this machine would solve your problem with a lot of cuts. But, if you don't mind me asking, Wouldn't the versatility of a scroll saw, which seems to be capable of much the same things that this machine can do, with the added benefit of ultra fine scroll work have been a better buy for you? (you can get a workable scroll saw for about the same price)

Again, I'm just trying to find a way to justify buying one of these myself, that's why I'm asking so many questions….


----------



## tierraverde

This machine is way more aggressive than a scroll saw in terms of hogging cuts out. Conversely, a scroll saw is really for fine detail work. So…..two different animals for different applications. I'll be getting a scroll saw in the future when my type of hobby warrants one. I'm a tool gloat, as I believe many types of machines make a hobby more enjoyable with less tedious set-ups and a safer working environment not having to jury rig a tool for unintended purposes.
I once put a jig saw upside down in a vise to cut internal lettering in some pine. The saw threw the wood in the air. No damage but scary. Lesson is don't jury rig.
Stumpy, you're right on regarding the so-called "sales people"


----------



## Dusty56

Thank you for giving such a great review.
I'm also sick of people that open the box and give a tool 5 stars before they even use the darn thing !
Have a great weekend : )


----------



## StumpyNubs

I see your point on this tool being more aggressive. A scroll saw's fine blades do require a careful hand when cutting thick stock or the blade will bend and wander. Good point…

As for making your own, I'd agree that slapping a jig saw in a vice is a bad idea. I have seen some very nice homemade versions of this tool, complete with the stabilization arm and dust collection. It would take about $100 or more to make your own (including the price of the saw since it would not be easily removable from the setup so you'd want a dedicated jig saw for it). So spending the extra $70 to get this factory made one makes sense… unless you just like to make things yourself.


----------



## patron

i have 5 band saws
3 table saws
7 routers
2 jigsaws
i scroll saw

for me when i get going on a shop project
i like to be able to go to whichever tool
does what i need when i need it
the band saws all have different width blades in them
for different cuts
the table saws can be set to do different things to

i hate setting and re-setting tools
for a few cuts
and if i miss one piece
or one gets screwed up
i can make another one without changing all the tools
just for that

also if i work street side
i still have enough tools in the shop
to get something done there
if my tools are still in the truck

why take half the time setting and re-setting tools
for the band saws
all i need to do is change the blade from time to time
the guides are always ready and adjusted for that size blade

tension up
and get back to work

thanks for the review


----------



## tierraverde

patron,

Right on.
I have 2 bandsaws, but after reading your post, I'm going out today and buying 3 more! ;-)

My wife wants to talk to you.


----------



## StumpyNubs

Patron- that's a good point, and may be enough to justify buying this tool. (I knew if i asked enough I would figure out a reason that I had to have this)

I also HATE changing blades. I have three bandsaws, but I am trying to pare down to just two. One for resawing, the other for cutting curves. I also have a big stationary 24" scroll saw for cutting tighter curves and two regular bench top scroll saws for cutting really tight curves. I HATE CHANGING band saw blades!

The same applies to the table saw. I have two nice table saws mounted side by side. One with a thin kerf ripping blade, the other with a good full kerf finish blade. And a radial arm saw with a cross cut blade. I can also put a dado set on one of the table saws or the Radial Arm saw and leave it there if I will be using it a lot. I HATE CHANGING table saw blades!

I think I also need a seperate router for every router bit and a seperate drill press for every drill bit… of course I'll also need a bigger shop…


----------



## wilterbeast

Stumpynubs and jim c i have to say it was a nice experience watching you two debate back and forth without someone getting called names, slamming each other character or trying to piss the other one off. Too many times the review section becomes the lumberjock version of the jerry springer show. You guys really had some good points that i didnt think about when i first saw the blade runner, i don't think i'll be buying one for myself because I have tools that I can use to get the job done and my Shop is so small but I think this tool would be perfect for my step dad who does alot of remodel work for himself and friends, he works with alot of different materials. Such as ceramic and metal


----------



## tierraverde

wilterbeast,
Wadda ya got a problem you wannabe?


> ?


?


> ?


?

Keep yer lousy opinions to yerself.

(Remember some of the now expelled flamers who were here just to light a fire?) Names shall go unpublished.

;-)

LMAO


----------



## richgreer

After reading this review and some good comments (and some not so good comments) I think I would like the blade runner if I did not already own a scroll saw. In fact, I wish I had bought this instead of the scroll saw. I own a pretty good scroll saw but I am not a scroller. I only use it, on occasion, to do an interior cut in a situation where I want more control and a finer cut than my jig saw can give me. For an exterior cut I always prefer one of my 2 bandsaws. For me, there is a place for this in my shop. It is right where the scroll saw is currently setting.


----------



## tierraverde

Richgreer,
That's the exact reason I bought it.
C'mon big guy, you need another tool. Go for it.

And no, I have no affiliation with Rockwell.


----------



## wilterbeast

Jim c thas funny! It funny put you can get people more worked up if you talk about their woodworking tools more than if you talk about their mothers! Lol i think most people want to talk to people that share the same opinon as themselves ( like it makes them think its right ) i get more information out of someone who shares a different opinion than me, to me it makes more sense. I know what my opinion is, i want to hear your opinion so i can make a better decision. After reading your review and all the comments i decided this tool wasn't for me, I'm not saying its a crap tool it just not for me. You try and explain that to some people and they get all BLAHHHHHHHHH! LOL


----------



## wilterbeast

Jim c thas funny! It funny put you can get people more worked up if you talk about their woodworking tools more than if you talk about their mothers! Lol i think most people want to talk to people that share the same opinon as themselves ( like it makes them think its right ) i get more information out of someone who shares a different opinion than me, to me it makes more sense. I know what my opinion is, i want to hear your opinion so i can make a better decision. After reading your review and all the comments i decided this tool wasn't for me, I'm not saying its a crap tool it just not for me. You try and explain that to some people and they get all BLAHHHHHHHHH! LOL


----------



## Howie

Jim: I just came from the Tampa Wood show where one of these was demonstrated to me. I did notice some(not excessive) vibration but really didn't think it was much more than some scroll saws.
While I personally don't forsee a need for this piece of equipment I don't think I would hesitate to buy one if I did.
Excluding the comments I thought you gave it a fair review.


----------



## StumpyNubs

I don't understand… excluding what comments? Which comments were bad?or as Rich said,"not so good". Did I miss something?


----------



## Howie

I was referring to Jim C's" all you experts" comments.
I said comments not "bad comments".


----------



## bluejazz

I have one as one as well, since Christmas and haven't really used it enough to create my own review. So I will just add a couple of my findings.

First off, I too bought (actually asked for one for Christmas) this instead of a scroll saw.

When I took mine out of the box it had a small ding in the table-top. Not enough to take it back, just enough to make me curse under my breath. That concerned me because the top seems a little thin and easy to dent. I used the machine to cut out some 1/4 plywood that I place over it to protect the top when not in use. (Everything looks like a table to me in the shop)

I had a few early issues getting the blade to set straight, but that just took a little practice.

What I think it is good at:
- Quick cuts
- Small parts
- Cutting curves
- Cutting thin pieces
- Cutting pvc and metal.
- Mobility- it is very light

What I think it is not so great at:
- Thick hard-wood cutting (perhaps speed experimentation will improve this, but a 3/4 piece of red oak had smoke coming off during a cut)
- A little sloppy fit for the miter gauge-though probably no worse than my table saw. But it can affect squareness
- Longer rips - I wish it had parallel miter slots so you could use a featherboard.

I make a lot of small boxes and such, so it works for me. If you make small stuff it has a place in your shop. If you never make anything smaller than a bread box, you may not need it


----------



## helluvawreck

I haven't ever seen this saw and I don't think that I've heard of it. I'll take a look at it. Thanks


----------



## NormG

Great review, have not seen on, but sounds like it has many possible uses. With any tool, learning its limits and uses is just part of learning to use the tool appropriately. I will have to see if my local Woodcraft has one


----------



## woody57

great review
thanks


----------



## drsongs

Thanks for the review - I actually have this on my wish list. I'm not a tool snob - I don't have to have the latest greatest brand X - I'm all about what works for me. This will accomplish what I want it for.


----------



## Raymond

Thanks for the review. I have been looking at these every time I go to Menards. I keep thinking boy that might be handy. I will give it a second look. Thanks again for the review.


----------



## Marty5965

Great review. I have one and, basically, it's a jig saw that lets you hold your work with both hands. If you have the space it's really handy to step up, make a quick cut or two and move on. If you don't, and have to haul it out when you need it YMMV.


----------

