# Earlex 5500 tip/nozzle sizes?



## HobbyFinisher (Mar 7, 2014)

I have an Earlex 5500 with two tips/nozzles: 2.0 mm and 2.5 mm, and I am new to paint spraying.

Current Project, painting/finishing cabinets for the basement and garage.

I plan to spray General Finishes "Enduro Clear Poly" (waterborne polyurethane) on top of their milk paint. They recommend a tip between 1.09 (0.043") and 1.30 (0.051"). They do not recommend thinning the Clear Poly.

http://generalfinishes.com/professional-products/water-base-topcoats-and-sanding-sealers/waterbase-polyurethane-topcoat#.UxnZFmIo7RY

I plan to buy either a 1.0 or 1.5 mm tip to spray the Clear Poly. Is it better to have a tip that is a little smaller or a little bigger than recommended? I was thinking the 1.5 mm would be better, but that a 1.0 mm may be a better addition to my other tips.

Another question.
I bought the 2.5 mm tip to spray latex, but read on this site that folks are using 2.0 mm tip to spray latex. What is better for spraying latex, 2.0 or 2.5mm tip?

I know this is some trial and error and practice, but it may help to start with the optimal size tip.

Thanks,
JK


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## retfr8flyr (Oct 30, 2013)

I have the Earles 6900 and have used the 2.0 tip for latex paint and WB Poly with good results. You already have the 2.5 so go ahead ahead and try it with the latex, it should work fine. You will still need to thin the latex to spray it. With the Enduro I would try the 2.0 needle and see how it does. If it doesn't work well you can always get the 1.5 needle.


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## edr321 (Mar 7, 2014)

I am not sure what color of milk paint you are going to use on your finish but there is a problem with dark milk paint colors and the Enduro Poly togeather. The milk paint on its own is solid as a rock and is darn near bullet proof but when top-coated with the Enduro Poly you can get a white blush when the finish comes into contact with just tap water or wiped with a wet rag. I went through a 3 month testing period with General Finishes to find a solution and there solution was to use shellac to cover the paint and use there Conversion Varnish. They may have reformulated and fixed the problem but I would test before you commit if using a dark color.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

I am with EDR321 , The poly over the milk paint or any paint has issues, not a good combination. I have personally tested and retested it .. get another top coat or seal the paint in with shellac .


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## HobbyFinisher (Mar 7, 2014)

Perhaps worrying about the tip size is the least of our problems. Thanks for the reply retfr8flyr.

Thanks EDR321 and CharlesNeil, I think.

I talked with the folks at general finishes before purchasing the product, and this combination was their recommendation. We are using Persian Blue with a Black Glaze. I was going to use their "high performance poly," but they recommended the "Enduro Clear Poly."

I assume you are the Charles Neil from Woodcraft. As a Woodcraft customer, I would have bought from you if the paint was sold in gallons. Is that why Woodcraft does not sell "Enduro clear Poly (I could not find it on the website)?

Does General Finishes' "high performance poly" have the same problem? Would you combine milk paint and the "high performance poly"?

I ordered the product from General Finishes and it was supposed to ship today. It appears General Finishes may be aware of the problem. If there is a high probability of this combination failing, I do not want to waste time testing. I am going to call them to see if there is a way to resolve this or avoid potential issues.

Everything I read indicated the General Finishes is a high quality product.

Thanks,
JK


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Hobby, yep Im the same Charles Neil, I have to go but will pick this up in the am ,also Edr321 is one of my subscribers and he went thru exactly what your "fixin" to do and it was a nighmare, I can and will help you with all of this. Just hang tight… We will answer all your issues , BTW ED321, is pretty sharp, heed his advice.


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## Earlextech (Jan 13, 2011)

In general the finer the needle/tip = the finer the finish.
1.0 for automotive or musical instrument type finishes, think 10 coats of lacquer or more.
1.5 for furniture, cabinetry or trim.
2.0 general purpose, paint a wall, deck or fence.
2.5 usually quantity, not quality.
These are guidelines. The more you know about the rules the easier it is to break them with success.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

How ya doing Sam … ?


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## Earlextech (Jan 13, 2011)

Great Charles, I thought you were leaving. LOL


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Trying Sam, Emails out the kazoo,,, Hate to wake up to 50 emails, but it happens, BTW folks , Sam is pretty sharp as well on this finishing thing, might want to lend an ear,,,


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## edr321 (Mar 7, 2014)

Since you asked. I am a professional and do this for a living and I did the exact thing same thing you did I called and asked and got the same advice you did. To make a long story short I had to respray the project 3 times under their guidance before I said enough is enough and got Charles involved(not to mention that these cabinets went into a 3/4 of a million dollar house with a high end designer involved. Then I spent 3-4 months testing every possible combination of there products I could think of. I have lost over $3,600 just in re-spraying not to mention all the testing i did on my own trying to figure out what was going on. The company swept me under the rug saying that its a black finish(which is historically problematic) and that their testing standings meets KCMA protocol. Ironically the KCMA doesn't even know who they are and the KCMA does not certify finishes. In the end I only asked them to reimburse me for 1200.00 dollars and there response was we just don't do that and offered me 1200 dollars in product. I did tell them that I would take the deal but I have never ordered anything from them. I guess this post means I won't get anything. Whoops! I am out of time and will answer your questions in the morning about what works and what does not work. Just thought you would like to know how I was treated.


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## killerb (Nov 1, 2011)

I can back up everything Eric is saying as well. General Finishes plain screwed with him. The product will cause issues. I found the same thing with some work I did. Yes I build furniture for a living as well and sell lumber. I will back any honest company, but what they did to Eric was wrong. They will tell you lots of things. Until you try it for yourself and find out different. I would not use this product again. I was trying to support a company from Wisconsin. My mistake. I use ML Campbell products. Just will not go back.


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## retfr8flyr (Oct 30, 2013)

Wow!! I guess I will stick with Target finishes from now on. Don't mean to hijack your thread JK but t I have a question for Sam that you may be interested in also.

Sam I really like my 6900 and I will be using some Target EM6000 on a project, as soon as it warms up. I have both the 1.0 and the 1.5 needle and was planning on using the 1.5 needle with the EM6000. Do you think that is the best choice with this product, or would the 1.0 work better?


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## edr321 (Mar 7, 2014)

Okay to answer your questions. This is my own personal testing data and yours my vary and I would strongly suggest doing your own testing. These test were done with the top coat straight over the milk paint no sanding sealer or shellac. I tested them with various dying times ranging from 24hrs to a 7 day cure to 14 day cure. I then put standing water on them and wiped it clean with times ranging from 5-30 min to overnight. One caveat these problems do not occur with their dyes(except the enduro poly over a black dye and the rosewood stain/dye) My personal test data did not match that of GF at least that was what I was told. There was a lot of talk about recovery times meaning a product that would blush but would recover in a give time period. Mine never recovered except for the Conversion Varnish. They claimed to have had the best luck with Tinted Poly with the Conversion Varnish over the top. I did not try that combination.

High Performance(Blushes) 
Pre-Cat Urethane(Blushes if standing water left on over 15 min Period)
Enduro Poly(Blushes)
Enduro Tinted Poly(Blushes)
Enduro Tinted Poly with Enduro Poly Top Coat(Blushes)
Enduro Conversion Varnish(Blushes if tested in a 24hr Period almost no blush if let cure for 7 days)
GF Sanding Sealer(Blush)
Milk Paint Alone(No Blush)
Kem Aqua Plus(No Blush)

I also tested everyone of these with a cheap Black Latex Paint(the blushing was significantly less than with the milk paint and in some cases almost un-noticed.

High Performance(no blush) This one I am going to test again but my initial tests indicated no blush.
Pre Cat Urethane(Blush if left on for more than 30min)
Enduro Poly(Blush)
Kem Aqua Plus(No Blush)

Then I stumbled upon the idea of using shellac to seal the paint but at this point I was over all the testing but here is where I left things. On these I used a one pound cut of shellac to seal between the milk paint and used the same tests above.

Pre-Cat Urethane(one pound Cut of shellac) If let dry for 7 days it would blush but would recover in 10-15min
Enduro Poly(still blushed no recovery)
Kem Aqua Plus(No Blush)

There final solution for me was as follows

1 coat of milk paint
1 coat of shellac
1 coat of sanding sealer
2 coats of Enduro Conversion finish

Hope this helps. My opinion is go with the Kem Aqua Plus if you are using a dark milk paint(their milk paint is awesome to spray it lays out super nice) your good if you are using their products with dyes with the exception of the rosewood in which I would use a 1 pound cut to seal it from bleeding though the top coat. Also they may have by this time fixed the issue by reformulating the Enduro Poly but you have to TEST IT TEST IT PLEASE!!! Don't ever use a new product without testing it first. Also Charles said he has had good luck with the Enduro Var as long as you let it dry 6-8hrs between coats however he has not tried it over paint. Since he hasn't I will be the tester this weekend and follow up on that one. Over and Out.


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## HobbyFinisher (Mar 7, 2014)

Okay with an on-topic hijack retfr8flyr.

Sam, based on your reply it sounds like I can go with a 1.5mm tip regardless of the finishing product. I thought the tip was based more on the product an atomization than type of job.

It also sound like the 2.5mm will get little use, maybe primer.

Thanks for your previous response.
JK


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## HobbyFinisher (Mar 7, 2014)

Wow is right, retfr8flyr.

I called General Finishes and the order has been shipped. I mentioned the issues and they claim, as expected, that there are no issue with my combination.

That is some extensive and impressive testing edr321. Why would you expend so much effort with a product that was not performing well?

I did some on-line research before buying the products, and everyone indicated that General Finishes provides a high quality products. Woodcraft sells it and promotes it in videos, but Charles Neil is not recommending my combination. I bought the Earlex in part based on Neil's and Woodwhisper's videos.

Maybe the light "Persian Blue" will not blush as much as black. The cabinets are going in the garage and basement workroom.

From where I sit with product in hand and little experience, I need to decide what to do. I need to digest this info. Sounds like the worst case scenario is that I need another topcoat. No one is discouraging using GF milk paint.

Does anyone have a good experience with General Finishes Enduro Clear poly?

Thanks for all the input,
JK


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## edr321 (Mar 7, 2014)

You will be fine with a 1.5 needle nozzle or a 1.0. If you go with the 1.0 you will have to put on more coats because it will be laying less out than the 1.5 but either will be fine. The reason I did all the testing was to find a solution for my clients and my reputation was on the line. General Finishes wasn't going to do it for me. I am known for delivering high end products that will outlast the people that buy them. I am also a firm believer that you always build to the best of your ability and you stand behind your product no matter the cost. Companies don't do that anymore and you know what it has served me well the clients that I am talking about recommend me to someone else because I went through all the hassle said above and it was a very large chunk of change.
Just trying to save you some hassle factor.

Eric


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

I think your in good hands here, I agree to test the poly over the paint.

As to the neddle/nozzle , they have it right, I usually use a 1.5 , and turn the fluid down, this is done to get a finer spray , basically its a case with a fixed pressure unit, you have to adjust the fluid to what the pressure can properly atomize, I find if I get approx a 4 to 5 " fan and spray about 5 " or so from the surface it does fine, you will see a slight texture behind the gun with a water base often time's ,it should be no more than say a 120 grit sandpaper, the finer it is the better. Waterbase products dry differently than solvent base, so even withthe slight texture , give it about 5 min and it should flow out glass smooth. Another indicator with water base products is you should see a slight bluish/white haze after you spray it, this is an indicator you have it "wet enough".

If your getting too much texture , further reduce the fluid amount


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## HobbyFinisher (Mar 7, 2014)

I will get the 1.5 mm tip.

Eric, does the gloss/sheen level of the Topcoat affect blushing? What was gloss level used in your tests? Perhaps different gloss levels provide different levels of protection against blushing

We bought the semi-gloss Enduro Clear Poly.

Our plan:

First, we are working in the basement, but it is dry and has radiant floor heat. The ventilation is limited. We will sand between coats
Spray two coats of milk paint on the cabinets.
Let the cabinets dry/cure for one week
Spray one coat of semi-gloss Clear Poly
Apply black glaze with a rag/sponge 
Spray two coats of Clear Poly

We plan to paint all the cabinets with the milk paint and the test the Clear Poly on several of the backs of the doors before doing all of the cabinets.

After letting the milk paint cure for one week, we will perform the Clear Poly steps above (including the glaze application). We will let it cure for 2 days. Then let standing water and a wet rag sit on the finished surface for 24 hours.

If we experience blush or some other failure, we will switch topcoats.

Thanks for all the informative and excellent info, which provides good guidance. I know this is a process and an art form.

Thanks,
JK


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## edr321 (Mar 7, 2014)

That's a good question. I was testing flats and satin I almost never do anything above that. Charles initially thought it could have been in the flatners but as it turned out it wasn't. I looked at the color you are shooting. You will probably be fine and won't have and issue with the blushing. There's no need to let the milk paint dry a week. 2 hours at most as long as it is powdering up you ready for your top coat. The poly dries super fast you can recoat within an hour. If you have a piece of scrap laying around I would use that as my test. Just shoot to coats of the milk paint and two -three coats of poly let it dry 24hrs and let some water set on it for about 10 min wipe it down and see what you get. If you can get a couple of box fans that will be all you need to just get the fumes out


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## Earlextech (Jan 13, 2011)

retfr8flyr - Use the 1.5 for furniture/cabinetry/trim, anything you want to finish in about 4 coats. Use the 1.0 for musical instruments/automotive lacquer, where you will finish in 10 or more coats.

HobbyFinisher - "Sam, based on your reply it sounds like I can go with a 1.5mm tip regardless of the finishing product. I thought the tip was based more on the product an atomization than type of job." 
Correct - tip size relates to viscosity using a high pressure sprayer but when the product is thinned, so it can be sprayed with HVLP, you should choose the tip size according to the quality of atomization you expect.


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## retfr8flyr (Oct 30, 2013)

Thanks Sam!!


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## mdhills (Mar 12, 2011)

JK, what was the final outcome of your finishing adventures?
(I'm on a similar GF-milkpaint + GF-poly with earlex path right now.)

Matt


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