# Need help choosing a machine



## Mahdeew

Hi,
I have been researching CNC machines for about 5 months now and am having a hard time figuring out which one would best serve my purpose. I have pretty much blocked the temptation of buying Chinese machines even though
Something like this for under 6K makes me salivate.

My plan is to buy a machine that has the capacity to grow with me for the next 10 to 15 years. It will eventually become a investment to supplement income when or if I retire. I love all aspects of woodworking from musical instruments to reclaimed furniture; innovating is a passion of mine. At this point I have narrowed my choices to either a shopBot or a shopsabre. I believe both machines are entirely made in USA and off course that is the reason for attraction. One thing that I like about the shopbot is the ability to use extensions to it for large pieces which makes the machine's footprint a lot smaller. I can also purchase a rotary indexing head for it which again is part of that growing process. I am assuming it will take me 2-3 months to learn most of the in's and out's of the hardware and software which is not a big deal. 
My question is, if you had a choice between the two machines, which one would you choose and why?
Also, am I being foolish by not considering the chinese made ones or products like Laquana that is "assembled" in the USA meaning the parts are more likely are Chinese made?
Thanks


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## JAAune

I'd pick Shop Sabre over ShopBot due to the heavier construction. Heavier machines provide a more solid foundation for heavy cutting. That being said, my current CNC is just a bolt-together aluminum kit with a router attached to it. It's been run pretty hard the last few months some days going for an almost continuous 8 hours.

So I'm pretty sure you'd be happy with either machine. I just prefer heavier because a Shop Sabre would do in 4 hours what my machine does in 8. It would double my income per hour but I don't have that much CNC work to need the extra capacity at the moment. So I just run my current machine longer.

Don't buy a CNC that doesn't come with good customer support. I built mine so I can service it but if you buy some random machine and it breaks down, what are you going to do? Mine failed twice in the past two years and both times I figured out the issue the same day. This is only possible because I know the circuits can can use a multi-meter. If you can't fix it, your Chinese CNC machine will become a $6,000 shop ornament someday.


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## oldwood

There is one for sale on Gulfport/Biloxi craigslist under tools.


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## Mahdeew

JAAune, Thanks. That was exactly my thoughts especially since I live 30 miles to the nearest town of only 10000. I have to have something reliable with a good support to answer my questions in case I run into some issues.

oldwood, I don't think I want to mess with someone else's unwanted child. If I knew in's and out's of CNC, I would definitely check it out but at this point I am as green as a young willow tree in Spring.


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## Ger21

I've never seen or used either one, but personally, I think you'd be better off with the Shopbot, due to their large user community.

You have thousands of people you can ask questions to.



> I am assuming it will take me 2-3 months to learn most of the in's and out's of the hardware and software which is not a big deal.


You can learn most of the basics, but there's a lot more to learn than you think beyond the basic operation. I've been doing this for a living for almost 20 years, and still learn things all the time.


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## Mahdeew

Ger21, thank.. I have already learned so many tips and tricks on watching YouTube videos. I am really leaning toward ShopBot for it's small footprint and extensions. I spent 4 hours today researching Probotix. So many positive feedback and that is what is confusing me. After all, Probotix cost half as much as Shopbot with much better reviews.


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## Dabcan

I just bought a machine after 10 years of debate. I went from build my own to brand new and everything in between. Eventually I bought a used machine from another business that was upgrading. It is made by a Canadian company that's still in business so I'm confident it will be serviceable.

Now that I have it, I will echo what others have said, buy a sturdy machine, the hardest part to upgrade is the frame, so get the best you can afford. I couldn't believe how heavy my machine is, but it's because the frame is built like a tank. I'd also recommend you get the biggest machine you might need, again, it's hard to increase the size after its built.

Lastly, get one with a good user forum as you'll have tons of questions, and the more people to answer them the better.

Good luck and keep us posted!


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## Ger21

Where are you finding all these probotix reviews?
Probotix is not in the same league as shopbot, and imo is a midrange hobby machine.
The Shopbot buddy is 3x faster, and much more rigid. Even faster if you go for the Alpha version. The Shopbot also comes with their version of V-Carve Pro, which is a $700 value.


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## Mahdeew

Dabcan, Thanks for the sound advice both ShopBot and ShopSabre have welded steel frame which make it a pulse. I think the Sabre provides a two hour training on their software as well. Ger21, I don't have the site/forum I went to but the discussions were among several people that had purchased one and it all was very positive. One person who was a "professor" at a collage claimed to had bought two of the for their school.


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## bonesbr549

I spent years making the decision you are looking at. For me I placed my order last week for CNCRouterparts machine. I Looked at a CAMASTER as well and they were my 2nd. I ended up doing research for almost a year and read and watched about everything I could find. For my need and budget, I found it was the best fit and came in my $$. I'm getting ready to build a house in a couple years so I wanted a 4×8 system for that and to make parts for my wine cabinets I make. finally I needed to get it in my basement so the CAmaster while great is a solid steel system and logistically I could not make it work, and the cost was just too much.

The CNCrouterparts is well deployed and supported. I went with nema34 controls and while a router is usable I went with the spindle option.

www.cncrouterparts.com

There is a section over at cnczone jusft for them. Great group. Obviously you wont get a 4×8 for that $$ range, but they have many options.

It runs with mach 3 well tested. I went with v-carve pro that you get at a discount with the purchase of a machine, and they gave me a deal that I could go with the cheaper v-carve pro and within 1 year, if I found that I wanted to upgrade it would only be the difference between aspire and VCP so I can't loose
I'm also going with a 4th axis option to do turned table leggs.

I highly reccomend cnczone for info they are great.

Good luck on the decision. I'll be doing my build log, so I'm sure I'll have trials and tribulations in my build but looking forward to it.

Have a good one.


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## Ger21

> Ger21, I don t have the site/forum I went to but the discussions were among several people that had purchased one and it all was very positive. One person who was a "professor" at a collage claimed to had bought two of the for their school.


I think I know of the person you're talking about.

Keep in mind that if someone only has experience with one machine, that while they may be perfectly happy with it, they may not know that there are far better options.

There's a website that sells kits for plywood machines for thousands of dollars. The machines are really complete garbage, compared to what's available today. But most of their customers are very happy, because they don't realize that you can get 10x the performance for about the same price.

So you have to take positive reviews with a grain of salt.


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## oldnovice

Here is and option that is inexpensive enough to get your feet really wet in many different forms of CNC work including the typical routing, 3D printing, foam cutting, vinyl cutting, engraving, carving, miling, etc.

In my opinion these Stepcraft models and accessories are low cost enough to try it out to see which avenue of "digital" design you want to explore.

The Stepcraft family of CNCs are available in various sizes and in kit form.


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## Mahdeew

bonesbr549, Thanks for the information. How long did it take you to put it together. All those parts are intimating to me.
Ger21, Excellent point. I took one look of those plywood ones and just shook my head. With all that movement, how can those last even a year? Crazy.
oldnovice, The largest width they have is 16". I am really wanting at least a 32" X 48 or close to it. I think a one time investment, let's say $12000, might be a better deal for me. A good machine with decent capacity will probably appreciate in value over time.


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## oldnovice

I hear you!
I didn't notice you were looking for that large of a CNC!


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## bonesbr549

> bonesbr549, Thanks for the information. How long did it take you to put it together. All those parts are intimating to me.
> Ger21, Excellent point. I took one look of those plywood ones and just shook my head. With all that movement, how can those last even a year? Crazy.
> oldnovice, The largest width they have is 16". I am really wanting at least a 32" X 48 or close to it. I think a one time investment, let s say $12000, might be a better deal for me. A good machine with decent capacity will probably appreciate in value over time.
> 
> - mahdee


sorry for not getting back to you sooner just noticed this. I'm building my system now. I am detailing the build on flicker and in cnczone cncrouterparts section. I'll post links to both. Mine is a 4×8 system. They are great in helping you before you buy and not overselling what you don't need. They even called me when they saw I had posted that I got my boxes just to see if it got there ok and that since I would be building over the week-end, they would monitor the emails.

It's well marked and labeled. If you can look at a picture you can build it.

https://flic.kr/s/aHskvHYJH1

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/cnc-router-parts/299816-cnc-posts.html


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## oldnovice

You certainly have your work cut out for you as I have not seen that many parts since I stopped working in control systems.
Good luck and I will be watching!


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## Ger21

> You certainly have your work cut out for you as I have not seen that many parts since I stopped working in control systems.


Some people build these from start to finish in about a week.


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## Ger21

> I think a one time investment, let s say $12000, might be a better deal for me. A good machine with decent capacity will probably appreciate in value over time.


A CNC Router will NOT appreciate in value over time.
Generally, the more expensive the machine, the more it depreciates.


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## Mahdeew

What is the footprint on your 4×8 Gerry?


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## Ger21

I don't currently have a 4×8, but I'm in long slow process of building one.
It will about 70" x 120".
The table will be a bit little less than 60" wide, but the gantry is 68" wide, to allow two side by side spindles to both have full access to a 49" sheet.
And it will have a rotary axis on the end, which is why it's so long.


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## Mahdeew

Yes, I saw that lathe, very nice especially if you can work with 5"-6" stocks.


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## bonesbr549

I don't think it will appreciate but I've never seen a tool that does. Not the point nor the reason I got it. The rotary cnc is primarily for legs so we will see. If you keep going to my flick'r link I'll post more photos as I build.

I am doing a Build thread over on cnczone so any updates will be there.

I think it could be done in a week, if I was just focused on that only, but got a day job. I'm also considering it an investment since I'm doing my cabinets for my next house, so considering what i'll save from not getting commercial custom cabinets I'll call it a wash.

The parts are top notch and the support is what I needed and thats been fantastic. A smaller unit would be much less so if want to start there then you could grow.

Cheers!


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## Mahdeew

bonesbr549, Agree. I will follow your progress on cnczone. I did look at the parts and they sure look like top notch products. The spindle look very impressive. I am thinking if I go your route, I may order a few parts at a time and assemble them little by little. Like you I have a day job and with spring coming, the homestead I live in demand a lot of my time as well. 
Thanks a lot for all the information.


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## FoggyCarver

I have put a few kits together and I think you will enjoy the process ! Its fun and you learn how to fix your own machine which is very valuable in the future saving money and downtime.


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## Mahdeew

FoggyCarver, YES… I love your attitude… Thank you.


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## FreedomMachineTool

Consider Freedom Machine Tool. Lifetime tech support supported by a large company.
Check us out and I wish you the best!

Freedomcnc.com


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## swdst

I haven't heard anyone mebtiin axiom precision, i too have been ready to pull the trigger on a cnc, and i keep going back to their pro line over and over again.


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## oldnovice

> You certainly have your work cut out for you as I have not seen that many parts since I stopped working in control systems.
> 
> Some people build these from start to finish in about a week.
> 
> - Ger21


If you say so! 
I worked in industrial automation for over 25 years and unless you get a kit, all the proper parts, you will spend more than a week!


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## Mahdeew

FreedomMachineTool, affordable @ $22000 for a 4×4??

swdst, I found a guy nearby that can do the work for me for a very reasonable price. If you don't intent on doing production, you may consider that route.


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## Leislei

Sorry to hear that you did not find good chinese machine for 5 months, but actually in china there are also manufactures who produce very good machine, and now many manufactures has changed their mind and started to focus on the quality of the machine. The opinion of people in china now is changing and the quality of china products will change for sure.


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