# Got any ideas?



## BubingaBill (Oct 15, 2013)

I have been working on making a 10 sided case for pool cues and I have run into a small snag. My sled is not working right. This is my first attempt at making a case like this and my first attempt at making a sled!
My design used hold down brackets to keep my material in place. I set my table saw to 18 degrees and cut away with scrap materials. After making 5 pieces I taped them together to see how it was going. I failed… the 2 ends should lay flat on my bench but they are off by a few degrees. I tried again after adjusting the saw angle a bit and got it!! A perfect half circle and all the joints were nice and tight.
So I broke out some nice red oak and started cutting. After cutting 5 sections I checked them and again I was off!! All the joints fit nicely but they don't make a half circle. Here are some pictures including the jig I made.




































I'm thinking of a jig to hold the oak to the bottom of the jig with 2 sided tape. Keeping the boards right on top of the saw might increase the accuracy of the cut. My last jig held the oak about 3/4" above the table top while cutting.
Any thoughts???


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## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Your angle is off ( really? ) You could just make two halves, shoot the edges on the jointer and join the halves.
It looks like most of the cut will be on the inside.


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## BubingaBill (Oct 15, 2013)

I guess I should mention I don't have a plainer or jointer or a 4' belt sander. I was hoping to keep the case 10 sided but I guess I could sand it to be round.


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## BubingaBill (Oct 15, 2013)

I found out I was tightening the jig so much that I was bending the bottom board! That was taking away from my angle. So I rebuilt the jig on a 2×6. same results and another set of 5 oak pieces down the tubes!


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

You're talking about 20 cuts here. If each cut is off by an eighth of a degree, the compound effect will be 2-1/2 degrees, and that's a lot. All your joints will fit together nicely until the last one, and that will be gap city.

I'd do exactly what Texcaster suggested - make two halves then cheat with the jointer.


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## BubingaBill (Oct 15, 2013)

Thanks Mark but I still don't have a jointer…


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

I have made mugs with various numbers of sides. It can be messy, but I glue and assemble all of the sides at once. Then I use large hose clamps around them to hold them tight till they dry. Should work for your que's as well.


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## kaerlighedsbamsen (Sep 16, 2013)

I dont think you are off a lot. Remeber that with 5 boards there is 10 places your angle has to be perfect. That cals for ultra precize..
Looking forward to see the rest!


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

Bubinga: Sorry, I guess I was composing my post while you were posting that you don't own a jointer.

Rather than jointing, then, another idea would be to sand the halves flat. You can buy a sanding belt, cut it and then tape it (double-sided) to a flat surface. You'd want to be sure you apply even pressure along the length of the case half.

I spent several months of my life trying to create perfectly-mitered picture frames. I built more sleds and jigs than I can remember. I'm only making 8 cuts compared to your 20 cuts. Me being off an eighth of a degree results in a 1 degree problem. For you it results in a 2-1/2 degree problem.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

There was a thread about doing something just like this a few months ago. I believe it was shipwright who showed how to do these with a birds mouth joint. Divided 360 by the number of joints and set the table saw to that angle…etc. I'm gonna look for it.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Here it is.

http://lumberjocks.com/FatherHooligan/blog/36736


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## BubingaBill (Oct 15, 2013)

Bill this is a winner!! I love the look before it gets sanded smooth! I will be tryimg this over the weekend for sure.
Thank you!!


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Good luck and may you not waste any more oak. If you need help, I would pm shipwright. I'm sure he would happy to help.


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## BubingaBill (Oct 15, 2013)

I have reached out to Shipwright before I burn through the little oak I have left. I'm going to run my project by him before starting. I'm hoping he has a few more pictures of how he makes his.
The material he cuts off is what I want to keep! I like the idea of having "Fins" running the length of my case. I don't know if it's a good idea or not but worth some sawdust to find out!!
Thanks again Bill


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Actually Bill, the parts that you see in Mark's assembly shouldn't exist. He wasn't assembling it correctly. When assembled properly you should have a clean hexagon, octagon or whatever with no protruding "off-cuts". The only photo I have available to me right now is from my "Little Cabinetree" piece and it is not a good example for two reasons.
First, it is assembled with hips sticking out which may actually suit your plan perfectly.
Secondly, it is an octagon which is the one polygon that can be cut on the tablesaw by simply turning the board over because both cuts are 45 degrees. That's OK but doesn't demonstrate the "one cut on edge and the other on the flat, same saw angle" that a different number of sides requires. I've answered here instead of your PM because I can't attach photos there.

Hope his helps. I'll keep an eye on the thread.


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## BubingaBill (Oct 15, 2013)

Shipwright,
This is not bad. I need more room inside so I am going to use 1/4" or 3/16" oak. Do you see an issue with that? All the pictures I have found show very thick stock. Most likely because they are not making a box out of it! I am not worried too much about strength because I plan on filling mine with expanding foam around the pool cue parts. This will leave me with 2 very deep holes for the 2 halves of the cue. The foam should help the oak from flexing when the case is carried or (God forbid) dropped. I will try and slap a drawing together with Sketchup and see if I can post it soon.


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## BubingaBill (Oct 15, 2013)

Here is a quick idea of what I had in mind. I barely know what I'm doing in Sketchup. Nothing other then each piece being exactly the same size is correct. I just went by eye on this.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

That should work fine but it's not a correctly assembled birdsmouth joint. It is kind of a backwards way of cutting / assembling it. It wouldn't urn down to round well. As for the thin material, as long as the joint is assembled properly it should be quite strong. I hope you will have an open side when you pour the foam though or it will just explode (slowly).

You also couldn't cut that joint with one angle setup on the table saw (unless it was an octagon of course).


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## BubingaBill (Oct 15, 2013)

If I used a dado blade shouldn't it be 30 degrees for 10 pieces?


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Of course you can use a dado blade. The point is you don't have to.
360 / 10 = 36 degrees in my world. 
Sorry about the screenshot quality but this shows the table saw set at 54 degrees (90 -36) so it cuts 36 degrees from the vertical. First cut with the board vertical, second with the board flat. This is how a bird's mouth joint is supposed to be assembled.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Yeah, Paul, I knew that the picture that was in the thread that I referred to was not right according to the way you described the joint. I realized later that the thread I provided the link for was not the original that I meant to put on there. Apparently it was one that was sort of a follow up to the original. Then Bill was happy with it and liked the wings that resulted. I just knew that he was trying to do what you knew how to do. I've never made the joint myself, but was interested in knowing how to do it a while back. Now I'm gonna favorite this thread so I'll have it to refer to.

Bill, I hope yours turns out the way you want it.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

Lee Valley sells "Birds mouth" router bits. by selecting the one for the number of sides that you want, you can eliminate the table saw. They do what Paul is demonstrating on the tablesaw. I have one for 8 sided projects and it works great. the only problem I would see with it is that the thickness of your material would make it tougher to use. Just a thought.


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## BubingaBill (Oct 15, 2013)

Bill and Paul,
I will try some test cuts this weekend and see how they turn out. My biggest issue I have to deal with is the total weight of the case. Pool players are (unfortunately) accustomed to light/flimsy Chinese made cases. The few that I have made are 7X the weight. Granted mine are much much stronger (and better looking!) but that's allot to carry around.
So working with the thinnest boards (3/16" or 1/4") is going to make this type of jointing a real challenge!


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## BubingaBill (Oct 15, 2013)

Monte,
The router bits were the first thing I looked into after seeing Paul's work. I think if my wood was thicker I would be buying a bit. As this is going to be very thin I think I will stick to my dado blade.

It has nothing to do with the fact I would be dealing with vintage (and very cheap) craftsman tin router table. (he said sarcastically!)


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